# pellet stove  warning



## bull (Dec 30, 2011)

i have read the warning issue about sleeping in the same room as the stove.  my son sleeps in the basement where the stove i want to install is going to be please give advice . does anyone sleep in the same room as there stove i got the info from enlgander web site . i am looking at the 55 shp10


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## Bank (Dec 30, 2011)

Pellet stoves in bedrooms is a generally a big no-no. You should check with your building code enforcement officer.  At the least you should have a smoke and CO detector in that room and make sure they in good working order.


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## xraycer (Dec 30, 2011)

He'll be needing shorts and tank-tops


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## Wachusett (Dec 30, 2011)

I am not sure about Kentucky, however Massachusetts has adopted the International Construction Code as most
states have. Which standardizes most codes across the country as I understand it. I believe the
Mechanical and Fire code govern stove installs. No solid fuel burning appliance can be installed in a sleeping room.


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## Brewer (Dec 30, 2011)

Uh-oh.........no more sleeping on the couch


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## tjnamtiw (Dec 30, 2011)

Your owner's manual will clearly tell you that the stove MUST NOT be put in a bedroom.  Now, what defines a bedroom is another question.  There's a reason for that caution and you just have to put a price on your life and that of your children.................


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## Charlie500e (Dec 30, 2011)

I sleep in the same room as my stove.  It's more of an open loft with a bunch of windows and a hard-wired smoke/CO alarm.  Besides the CO concern, I think the big issue with having them in a bedroom is if the stove catches fire, escape may be limited.


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## DexterDay (Dec 30, 2011)

Is the basement room a bedroom? Or is it a finished living room/he sleeps on the couch room? Is this a room where the family spends most of there time? Heating from a basement can be done. But for a lot of folks, it can be very difficult and you may only get sub-par results.

Back to the "Room"....

If its not a bedroom (i.e.-no bed) then I would probably be legit.

But if there is a "Bed" in the room. Then by definition, it is in fact a bedroom and wouldnt be "legal" per say. 

Also, if your trying to heat the upstairs, from the basement. That room will be way to warm to "sleep" in. Any way the stove can upstairs? Or are you just trying to heat that room?


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## smoke show (Dec 30, 2011)

Brewer said:
			
		

> Uh-oh.........no more sleeping on the couch



Thats a nightly occurance here, hit the recliner and before you know it its time to go to work.


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## Eatonpcat (Dec 30, 2011)

smoke show said:
			
		

> Brewer said:
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Guilty here also!!  I think my wife likes it this way though!! ;-)


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## Charlie500e (Dec 30, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Back to the "Room"....
> 
> If its not a bedroom (i.e.-no bed) then I would probably be legit.
> 
> But if there is a "Bed" in the room. Then by definition, it is in fact a bedroom and wouldnt be "legal" per say.



I don't think simply placing a bed in a room makes it a bedroom legally.  In my area, a room needs a closet and full size window to be considered a bedroom.


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## DexterDay (Dec 30, 2011)

Eatonpcat said:
			
		

> smoke show said:
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X3.... At least a few times a week. ;-P


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## iceman (Dec 30, 2011)

Mine is in a bedroom, its not quite an inlaw apt but could be sold as, it only gets slept in when company comes over as it isn't in the basement but is downstairs... It heats the whole level its on so the door has to stay open unless you want the bathroom freezing cold....
There are co/ and smoke detectors very close to the stove, I also unlock the window closets to it as it does allow some fresh air in to the stove...
When I put the house up I will either take it with me or take the bed outta the room!


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## Mainely Saws (Dec 30, 2011)

Basement bedrooms seem to be a risky deal to me . If a fire starts upstairs & the only egress is a single flight of stairs up to where the fire is ???????????


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 30, 2011)

actually many code's have been rewritten defining "bedroom" as a "sleeping" room. 

big deal is potential of CO during a malfunction, if the sleeping room is occupied  at the time with a sleeper the likelyhood of being overcome by CO before detectors may react is much higher than if its in a different room therefore the "sleeper" has a better chance of being awakened by the detector before its too late.

it should be noted that most solid fueled appliances (especially pellet stoves when properly installed and maintained should not allow CO release into the structure under most any conditions but you always plan for worst case scenario. this is why the code is written this way.


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## iceman (Dec 30, 2011)

In mass or my town, a bedroom basement must have an escape window which is like 3-4 ft wide and 4ft tall something like ..
I have 2 co detectors in the bedroom one by the stove and one by the bed


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## PJPellet (Dec 30, 2011)

I am surprised any of our ancestors survived in their one room cabins with a fireplace.  On a serious note though, my house is so small that wherever I sleep is almost like sleeping in the same room with the stove.  It does make me nervous, but then I am nervous about most things.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 30, 2011)

PJPellet said:
			
		

> I am surprised any of our ancestors survived in their one room cabins with a fireplace.  On a serious note though, my house is so small that wherever I sleep is almost like sleeping in the same room with the stove.  It does make me nervous, but then I am nervous about most things.



That one room cabin with a fireplace had one huge air sucker in it so the chances of there being any appreciable CO even under all conditions except someone intentionally plugging the rather large flue was extremely small.   That and the total lack of both insulation and air sealing is a far cry from todays setups.


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## arnash (Dec 31, 2011)

Smokey's point is the most apropos.  It isn't about fire danger, it's about lack of a continues adequate inflow of air into the room to replace that which is being fan vented to the outside.  The feature of a bedroom which a living room or great room lacks is a bedroom door, -which is normally closed at night thus cutting off the inflow of fresh replacement air.  That would cause a problem eventually for any living organism that doesn't exist in a water tank.  Poor combustion would also be a problem almost as soon as the door is closed.  A fan can't blow air outside if there's no new air to replace what should flow out the exhaust pipe.  Negative pressure would result in such a situation and that would be bad for the purity of the combustion.  Maybe a normal person would wake the heck up in a situation of inadequate fresh air, but smokers probably wouldn't, and in really deep sleep even normal people would probably end up in a comma or dead is the oxygen level dropped too low.  So the question is: "how air-tight is that basement?"  Is it good and drafty?  That all depends on if it underwent a remodel into a living space instead of just a storage space.


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## TLHinCanada (Dec 31, 2011)

Or if your worried about CO (I'm going to regret saying this) you could install a OAK and have your inside air and outside air completely separated.


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## bull (Dec 31, 2011)

guys i am  really worried about this , my basement looks like an open apartment, only closed room is the bathroom. rest is wide open. 1outside door 5 windows and the stair door that is never closed. little over 800 sqft. my plans for installing a pellet stove has been cancelled unless someone can help me with this delima. thanks please help.


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## John97 (Dec 31, 2011)

TLHinCanada said:
			
		

> Or if your worried about CO (I'm going to regret saying this) you could install a OAK and have your inside air and outside air completely separated.



I agree.

Since I have an OAK, I won't hesitate to spend a night on the sofa in the living room with my Mt. Vernon if the wife gives me the boot from the bedroom.  I also have a CO detector in the room as well.


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## Charlie500e (Dec 31, 2011)

If you're concerned you could always hook up a programmable thermostat and keep the stove off at night?


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## DBCOOPER (Jan 1, 2012)

My quad 1200i manual only restricts the installation in "sleeping rooms" in mobile homes. It doesn't say anything about it in fixed structures. It does say "Installation MUST comply with local, regional, state and national codes and regulations. Consult insurance carrier, local building inspector, fire officials or authorities having jurisdiction over restrictions, installation inspection and permits."

I quite often doze or even spend the night on the couch in the living room with the pellet stove running. If I was afraid of it, it wouldn't be in the house.


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## save$ (Jan 1, 2012)

If it is your whole basement, I do not see how that makes it a bedroom, anymore than putting a refrigerator in it would make it a kitchen,  or putting in a table make it a dining room.  The warning is to avoid sleeping in a confined space where CO might concentrate to lethal levels.  Take the doors off the stairway going up and down and you no longer have a confined space.  CO is a silent killer.  It will dilute and fill the whole air space it is exposed to.  So bigger is better.  Have CO detectors where you are most of the time. Then you might hear it before any harm comes.  Proper stove installation and maintenance is key to avoiding CO escaping the stove and into the living space.  Ck local codes.  If any restrictions, they trump any ideas about doing anything different.   
(leaving a window cracked open just a little can also help as long as it is not one near the stove's exhaust)


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## arnash (Jan 1, 2012)

What's there to be worried about?  Just add an air intake pipe for the stove or crack a window a little.  As hot air rises and exhaust air is blown out, fresh air will be drawn in.  And with fire and CO alarms available there is no danger, especially from fire.  Pellet stoves don't catch on fire and won't ignite anything else as long as no gross error is made in its installation.  Go for it.


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## checkthisout (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't fully understand that rule either. I can understand it with a more conventional wood stove or fireplace but not a pellet stove. 

One can sleep in any room of the house if one so chooses. 

Perhaps it's more related to the possibility of the appliance itself starting a fire but such a scenario is just as likely with any heating device.


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## krooser (Jan 1, 2012)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> I don't fully understand that rule either. I can understand it with a more conventional wood stove or fireplace but not a pellet stove.
> 
> One can sleep in any room of the house if one so chooses.
> 
> Perhaps it's more related to the possibility of the appliance itself starting a fire but such a scenario is just as likely with any heating device.



You can sleep in any room you choose UNTIL the sleeping police come knocking... won't be long!


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## bull (Jan 1, 2012)

so what happens say when power is lost , and stove is running and has the pan ful and burning is the smoke going to come back through to the house or will it make its way out the chimney.  im sure someone has delt with this issue.


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## John97 (Jan 1, 2012)

the bull said:
			
		

> so what happens say when power is lost , and stove is running and has the pan ful and burning is the smoke going to come back through to the house or will it make its way out the chimney.  im sure someone has delt with this issue.



It depends...

But if you have an OAK, combustion air is isolated from room air...


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## arnash (Jan 3, 2012)

the bull said:
			
		

> so what happens say when power is lost , and stove is running and has the pan ful and burning is the smoke going to come back through to the house or will it make its way out the chimney.  im sure someone has delt with this issue.


Yes, only an outside-air intact pipe will prevent smoke from flowing out the intake pipe into the room, unless...the exhaust pipe is tall enough to create a natural up-draft what will draw the hot air upward and out of the room to the outside.  But one can always do what I need to do, and did do last year, which is to have a battery and power inverter ready to plug the stove into if power goes out, giving the stove enough time for the fire to burn itself out with the fans running, but you have to remember to shut-off the pellet feed.  I need to buy another junk-yard battery for $15-20, which can also serve as a spare for my car, -and appliances when power is lost.


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## krooser (Jan 3, 2012)

Well if you have a good CO and smoke detectors the risk in very minimal... my 92 year old mother-in-law usually crawls out of bed during the night and sleeps in her recliner 3' from the pellet stove... and she's doing better than me!

Install an OAK and you should be safe... 800 sq. ft. is a lot more forgiving than a tiny bedroom like many older homes have.


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## VTrider (Jan 4, 2012)

John97 said:
			
		

> the bull said:
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I wonder if this would hold true if you have, let's say a pellet stove model which has an 'airwash' on the top of the window - even if you have an oak, I can picture a smoldering burn-pot exiting gas and smoke through this 'airwash' which is what happens with my Enviro Windsor during a power outage and a full-burn - then again, I don't have an OAK!


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## arnash (Jan 5, 2012)

Good point about the air-wash.  I'd venture to guess that if the stove is burning good and hot when the power fails, then the updraft of the vent pipe could continue sending exhaust air up and out instead of allowing the pressure in the stove to drop completely to zero thereby causing smoke to penetrate the air-wash into the room.  But the house would have to not be sealed tight or else without the exhaust fan working and pulling air in through the walls and unsealed cut-outs then air movement would stop dead.  But if the vent pipe doesn't include a good length of straight vertical rise but instead is almost entirely horizontal, then there wouldn't be an up-drafting effect.  Since the air in the stove is hot and expanding, it has to go someplace and much of it might continue moving in the direction that it was moving before the power failed.  Of course another likely scenario is that both conditions could occur, -smoke exiting both the vent pipe and the air-wash as well as the intake pipe if there's no OAK.  I think you could block smoke from exiting the intake pipe by just closing the flue.  That would deprive the pellets of oxygen and put the fire out but that wouldn't stop the production of smoke.  And fire is better than smoke so that wouldn't be a good move unless smoke is seen exiting it.


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## mrbean1025 (Jan 5, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Is the basement room a bedroom? Or is it a finished living room/he sleeps on the couch room? Is this a room where the family spends most of there time? Heating from a basement can be done. But for a lot of folks, it can be very difficult and you may only get sub-par results.
> 
> Back to the "Room"....
> 
> ...



You know, I normally don't like the government getting involved in telling people how to live in their own home but this would be an exception.  I don't mean to be offensive but are you seriously trying to "define" this into being justified despite the OBVIOUS AND DEADLY consequences that may occur by his kid sleeping in this room?  How about making it simple, he said his kid sleeps in the same room so it is his bedroom which means he may die in that room no matter what the "legal" definition is.  Darwinism at it's best, don't sleep in the room.


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## Lousyweather (Jan 5, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Is the basement room a bedroom? Or is it a finished living room/he sleeps on the couch room? Is this a room where the family spends most of there time? Heating from a basement can be done. But for a lot of folks, it can be very difficult and you may only get sub-par results.
> 
> Back to the "Room"....
> 
> ...



Dexter must be a lawyer, or one in a past life!


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## arnash (Jan 6, 2012)

A bedroom is a specific type of room.  It isn't defined by whether someone sleeps in it or not.  It could be used for other uses, like an office.  What it's character is is determined by the fact that it has a door that cuts it off from the air in the rest of the house, along with the fact that normally a bedroom has no plumbing.  If one sleeps in a conventional garage, it is still a garage and won't be anywhere near as air-tight as a bedroom.  Same with a conventional basement.  It's all about air penetration.  If a basement is far from air tight, then sleeping in it, even with a pellet stove nearby, does not put it into the bedroom category.


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## mrbean1025 (Jan 7, 2012)

arnash said:
			
		

> A bedroom is a specific type of room.  It isn't defined by whether someone sleeps in it or not.  It could be used for other uses, like an office.  What it's character is is determined by the fact that it has a door that cuts it off from the air in the rest of the house, along with the fact that normally a bedroom has no plumbing.  If one sleeps in a conventional garage, it is still a garage and won't be anywhere near as air-tight as a bedroom.  Same with a conventional basement.  It's all about air penetration.  If a basement is far from air tight, then sleeping in it, even with a pellet stove nearby, does not put it into the bedroom category.



Well then this must explain why know one ever dies of carbon monoxide poisoning while sleeping in anything other than a bedroom.


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## arnash (Jan 7, 2012)

Death from carbon monoxide can only occur when equipment isn't working properly or one uses something like a barbecue to heat an indoor space in which they sleep.  Since statistics and details for carbon monoxide poisoning are unknown, it's impossible to know how frequent or rare CO poisoning is in rooms other that bedroom-like room.  But none of them result in rooms that are adequately drafty.


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