# Replace Propane Insert with Pellet Insert



## terps02 (Nov 8, 2010)

Hi, 
I'm looking to replace my propane insert that came with the house (4 yr old).   Don't use it much, doesn't warm very well, expensive, etc...

While searching on the forum for similar threads, I found this one: Link  The 3rd reply down is my identical setup.   Even looks like the same insert and the same kick-out.  

Question is, how easy or difficult is the install of a pellet stove with this setup?  Can the same venting setup be used?  Can I do it myself?  If not, should I expect to pay more for install considering the setup?

Thanks.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 9, 2010)

terps02 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I'm looking to replace my propane insert that came with the house (4 yr old).   Don't use it much, doesn't warm very well, expensive, etc...
> 
> While searching on the forum for similar threads, I found this one: Link  The 3rd reply down is my identical setup.   Even looks like the same insert and the same kick-out.
> ...



I can't answer your first question, but the answer to your second question is no, the third question is yes provided you can use some common tools and can read and follow the directions to the letter, I have no idea about the last one, it is different depending on local labor rates and the type of venting that is used.


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## flynfrfun (Nov 9, 2010)

terps02 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> I'm looking to replace my propane insert that came with the house (4 yr old).   Don't use it much, doesn't warm very well, expensive, etc...
> 
> While searching on the forum for similar threads, I found this one: Link  The 3rd reply down is my identical setup.   Even looks like the same insert and the same kick-out.
> ...



I'm actually in the process of installing my pellet insert into the same situation.  My old gas fireplace insert just sent the heat outside for the most part.  We never used it and I always dreamed of getting a pellet insert in there.

Anyways, you have to read the technical manual of the pellet insert as you want to make sure you have enough clearance to combustibles (wood studs).  I'm installing an Enviro M55 cast insert and their technical manual very clearly shows exactly what to build in your and my situation.  I'm essentially building a box into the doghouse that will be lined with Durock (concrete board) on all sides.  Then the hearth pad will be metal studs layed on their sides with a layer of 1/2" Durock and then 1/4" ceramic tile on top of that.  In case you are wondering metal studs create an air gap between your wood flooring and the Durock.

So far, I've removed my old gas insert and have a nice big opening into the doghouse to easily add some framing for the Durock box.  Removing the gas insert was a big job as I didn't want to demo my existing ceramic tile that surrounds the fireplace.  The insert had tabs that were screwed into the studs which were covered by the ceramic tile.  I basically cut the fireplace out leaving the tabs in place.  Kinda hard to describe in words. 

It is a fair amount of work, but nothing a reasonably handy guy can't do.  Other than getting the old fireplace out, the next biggest job will be building the hearth pad as I have never layed tile before.  At least there is not much of it to do :coolsmile: 
Flynfrfun

Edit:  I forgot to answer one question.  No, the same venting can't be used.  But the new venting is basically the same...pipe coming out the back of the doghouse (horizontal), the differnce is you will need a cleanout tee and 3-5' of vertical pipe up the exterior of the doghouse to create a draft to help suck the exhaust out in the event of a power outage.

Everything I'm telling you can be found in the technical manual for the Enviro M55 cast insert on Enviro's website.  

Some inserts have what they call a "zero clearance" kit.  It usually is a metal box that you install into the doghouse, then install your insert into the box.


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## Tyranid (Nov 9, 2010)

Funny you should mention this. I have the exact set up (Propane insert with bump out) and I'm having a brand new pellet stove installed on Saturday!

The dealer seems pretty knowledgable. 'Masters Pellet Stoves' out of Bowie, MD. My quote was about $4k for an Enviro Empress, installed, plus the cost of removing the gas insert.

I will try to take some pictures while they are installing and post them up (assuming the installers don't mind).

BTW - Apparently there was a ruling in Maryland and certain stoves that are considered 'dual fuel' are exempt from sales tax now. Apparently several of the Enviro's technically fall into that catagory.


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## terps02 (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for the info. 

Tyranid, it's a small world.  I spoke to Masers Pellet Stoves a couple days ago.  I'm out of their service area, but they were really helpful on the phone.  I'd be curious to know what they installed between the studs of the bump out and the pellet insert.  For example, maybe the zero clearance kit that Flynfrfun mentioned.  Pics would be great.  If you can't post, an email would be great.  I'd also be curious to know if they install the vertical pipe as Flynfrfun mentioned.


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## Tyranid (Nov 10, 2010)

Thats too bad, I didn't know how far south you were. In any case, posting pictures shouldn't be a problem (as long as the installer doesn't mind me taking them while they are working).

As far as the studs, my propane insert already is surrounded by granite, so he is going to use that as the buffer between the stove and the wood studs, I believe. I'll be watching the install, so I will check.

As far as the venting, I discussed this with him. He normally vents straight out. I discussed putting an elbow in and installing a vertical section, but he was reluctant to do this (probably cost). I may end up doing this myself, after reading this forum. In the short term, I will probably be using a computer UPS backup. (You would think it would be easy to design a stove with a battery backup to keep just the fan running during a power outage... allow the stove to shut down and vent the gases...)

He did say the elbow wouldn't fit inside my bump out (not enough room between the stove and the back of the wall), so the elbow will have to be outside.

Good luck on installing. I had debated doing the install myself, but my wife vetoed the idea...


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## Buckeyenut (Nov 10, 2010)

Been there, done that, hers's a link.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/36672/
It was pretty easy to do, I had to relocate the hole for the wall thimble and redo the siding on the outside, that and the stone work were all new to me.  i have a finished picture somehwere that i thought io posted in the same thread.  I will try and get that in there since I am really happy wit the way it turned out.  feel free to let me know if you have any questions, I am in no way a professional, just a do-it-yourselfer!


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## flynfrfun (Nov 10, 2010)

Tyranid said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> He did say the elbow wouldn't fit inside my bump out (not enough room between the stove and the back of the wall), so the elbow will have to be outside.
> 
> Good luck on installing. I had debated doing the install myself, but my wife vetoed the idea...



You wouldn't want to go vertical inside the doghouse anyways because then you'd have to cut a hole in the roof of the doghouse to exit the pipe which would be way more complicated and unnecessary.  If you do go vertical (on the exterior of the doghouse make sure you put a cleanout T instead of an elbow.  You need to be able to clean the vent and the T makes this very easy.
Flynfrfun


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## terps02 (Nov 11, 2010)

Wow, thanks for the info. 

Buckeyenut, How is the Bosca heating your house?  How many sq ft are you heating with it?  I see you mentioned your opening was 39w x 36h, that's exactly what mine is.  Did you cover the gap at the top with stone?  

Flynfrfun, Thanks for the info.  Is there any good reading online to explain why one would or wouldn't need a vertical draft outside?  Maybe not that exact example, but the general needs for proper pellet stove drafts/fresh air/etc?


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## flynfrfun (Nov 11, 2010)

Terps,
I haven't really done any research other than read the technical manual for my Enviro M55 cast insert.  It says to make it go vertical for 3-5' so that as the heated air rises in the vertical pipe, it helps suck the air out of the stove.  I believe this is called "draft", but don't quote me on that.  At any rate, if you had a power outage while the stove was running, the blowers would stop and without the draft, I assume the smoke would build up inside the stove since it isn't "drafting" with a horizontal pipe.  Then the smoke would likely fill your house until the pellets quit burning.  Some smoke would go out the horizontal pipe, but it wouldn't be sucking the air out a vertical chimney will.  This is my take on it.  I could be wrong.  

Just to update you guys, I'm done building the Durock "box" inside my doghouse.  I tore up my old tile floor and am almost done framing the new hearth pad.  Tomorrow, I should finish framing the hearth pad and screw down the Durock on top of it.  A friend is coming over Saturday to help me do the tile work.  If all goes well, I should be installing my stove next Monday.  Believe me, the stove installation looks easy compared to what all I have done so far.  But, I feel proud to have done this myself.  
Flynfrfun


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## Buckeyenut (Nov 11, 2010)

My house is 2300 square feet.  The heat doesnt get all the way into the bedrooms upstairs.  I am considering cutting a vent in the floor to try and get that heat up there but the wife doesnt seem to think thats too good of an idea.  Overall I like the heat that the Bosca throws  out, its easy enough to maintain and the house is alot warmer than it used to be with just the furnace running.  I did fill in that area above the stove with stone so that it looks the same as it did before.  I will try and get more pictures posted tonight when I get home from work.

Bill.


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## Tyranid (Nov 14, 2010)

I have the pictures I promised you in this thread:

My New Install

They actually managed to use the original exhaust vent, which was nice.

The bulk of their trouble was taking the old propane insert out without removing the granite surround.


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