# Newbie This old stove any good?



## tecumseh03 (Sep 21, 2014)

Ive been reading here and I decided on the Englander 30nc then l got this stove for free. Is this stove worth installing. It has a 8" flue and the Englander has a 6" flue. I don't want to install a 8" and find out the stove is no good. Could I put in a 6" and reduce it down and try thus stove then get the Englander if I don't like it?

One thing I thought didn't look right is the pic of the stove from above the flue, its open right to the firebox is that normal? Person I received it from has used it for years and says it works good. I couldn't find any info on this stove.

Thanks for any help.


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## webby3650 (Sep 21, 2014)

It's an old Blaze King knock off, never heard of it.
It's not worth installing in my opinion. It's gonna be very inefficient, thus the wide open flue you mentioned.


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## begreen (Sep 21, 2014)

No, you can not reduce the flue pipe. It needs to be 8". Looks like a locally produced Utah stove from the early 80s. It appears to be in decent condition. The stove won't win any beauty contest, and will probably eat wood like candy, but it should be safe to install if no defects and if installed respecting or exceeding the required clearances on the label.


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## Shwammy (Sep 21, 2014)

Hey, at least it's not made in China like so many of the "good" stoves pushed on people here.


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## begreen (Sep 21, 2014)

What stoves exactly would you be referring to?


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## bholler (Sep 21, 2014)

Shwammy said:


> Hey, at least it's not made in China like so many of the "good" stoves pushed on people here.



There acctually are very few stoves sold in the states made over seas.  And the few available from china i have never seen recommended here.  I am curious what stoves you are referring to. To the op if you had a chimney there to hook it to i would say try it but i cant see putting in an 8" vent for that stove when it wont work for many new ones that i am pretty sure you will want to switch to fairly soon.


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## Shwammy (Sep 21, 2014)

http://www.made-in-china.com/productdirectory.do?subaction=hunt&style=b&mode=and&code=0&comProvince=nolimit&order=0&isOpenCorrection=1&word=wood stove

How many of these do you think are assembled and re-branded in the US with a few finishing touches added that are sold in the US under old school stove makers names. I don't see how it would be unlike every other item sold to the US consumer. So many of our big names out there are not the US owned companies they once were...unfortunately.


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## bholler (Sep 21, 2014)

Shwammy said:


> How many of these do you think are assembled and re-branded in the US with a few finishing touches added that are sold in the US under old school stove makers names. I don't see how it would be unlike every other item sold to the US consumer. So many of our big names out there are not the US owned companies they once were...unfortunately.



I have yet to see that from any established brand.  In order to make it cost effective to ship the large weight of a stove the quality and thickness of castings has to be very low and there for the quality of those stoves is in turn very low.  And no reputable stove company will put their name on them.


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## bholler (Sep 21, 2014)

Not to mention that i don't see many on there that are epa tested or ul listed which would mean a very large investment on the domestic companies part to get those done if the stove would even pass


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## ridemgis (Sep 21, 2014)

Buy the Englander 30 NC


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## BrotherBart (Sep 21, 2014)

Shwammy said:


> How many of these do you think are assembled and re-branded in the US with a few finishing touches added that are sold in the US under old school stove makers names.



Very few. Go find some and get back to us.


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## bholler (Sep 21, 2014)

And i am pretty sure if you find some they have not been recommended by any of the regulars on this site


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 22, 2014)

Whats the difference between this and a new one? Big steel box throw some wood in and heat.

I know theres a reason I just dont know whatvit is?


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## fossil (Sep 22, 2014)

We got a couple choices here...either get this thread back on track and address the OP's original question....or


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## bholler (Sep 22, 2014)

tecumseh03 said:


> Whats the difference between this and a new one? Big steel box throw some wood in and heat.



Secondary combustion system to increase efficency and reduce emissions.  UL listings to make your insurance company happy.  Reduced clearances so you can put it closer to the wall.  Warantee and availability of parts if anything goes wrong.  Just to name a few.  I have no problem at all with old stoves but none of us know anything about that one there are good old ones and not very good old ones and with out knowing on that one i wouldn't put the money into an 8" stack for it


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 22, 2014)

bholler said:


> Secondary combustion system to increase efficency and reduce emissions.  UL listings to make your insurance company happy.  Reduced clearances so you can put it closer to the wall.  Warantee and availability of parts if anything goes wrong.  Just to name a few.  I have no problem at all with old stoves but none of us know anything about that one there are good old ones and not very good old ones and with out knowing on that one i wouldn't put the money into an 8" stack for it




OK makes sense, thanks for the advice. I'm going with the Englander NC30. Appreciate all the advice from the other members as well. I didn't realize there's more to heating with wood then just slapping in any old stove.


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## bholler (Sep 22, 2014)

Well now you do lol.  Good luck the englander is a great stove for the price i am sure you will be happy with it


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## Shwammy (Sep 23, 2014)

I hope you have wood seasoned for two years and a woodshed where your wood will never get wet. You see, the problem here is that these guys all seem to think that everyone has a perfectly seasoned, well protected stack, ready for the coming winter. They fail to realize that most do not, and not having dry well seasoned wood and burning it in a new style wood stove is a disaster. They will not make much heat if they can't get up to temperature, a temperature that is higher than what is required to heat with a normal wood stove. This means that they are just as inefficient as older stoves overall because the vast majority does not use perfectly seasoned wood.  It's a pity that most do not take the time to get things set up and rely on a shady firewood guy to bring them wood when they need it/can afford it. And it's a real pity that they unknowingly wasted their money on an expensive stove when they should have started with their woodpile/shed. If you heat exclusively with wood and you don't have room to keep multiple cords dry along with others drying you are wasting your money on these EPA stoves, no question about it. I wonder how many of these guys are Republicans who are going on on here lauding the EPA's restrictions as as good and effective idea. They are posers, bandwagon environmentalist stove snobs and hypocrites. They never even tried to help you with anything except wasting your money in favor of a government agency who knows better than you. Perhaps believing the person you talked to, in person, who said the stove worked well, would have been the way to go, instead of listening to these EPA shills.


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## Grisu (Sep 23, 2014)

You apparently never read any of the threads in the hearth subforum here because in about every second post we advise people how important dry wood is and how to season it properly. With $900 for a large 30NC that comes new and with warranty they are not really more expensive than any of your beloved classic stoves. And my EPA stove works well, thanks for asking. I am also glad I don't need the space to season twice the amount of firewood I would need for a non-EPA stove. Water does not burn, never has. 

Time to close this thread.


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## mellow (Sep 23, 2014)

okie dokie.. who let pook back on here?

Back to the original picture of that stove, does it have a bi-metallic thermostat on it?  Also looks like it has a bypass lever of some sort.   Interesting stove.

The closest I can find on the Safire Gem is some newspaper ads:  http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/53301457/

Another newspaper ad with your exact stove:  http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...zRTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IYMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4364,5055976

http://ogden-ut.americanlisted.com/misc-household/wood-burning-stove-250-brigham-city_20913147.html  <-- so it does have a bi-metallic switch on it.


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 23, 2014)

mellow said:


> okie dokie.. who let pook back on here?
> 
> Back to the original picture of that stove, does it have a bi-metallic thermostat on it?  Also looks like it has a bypass lever of some sort.   Interesting stove.
> 
> ...



Can't believe you found those ads, pretty cool. The concensous seems to be its not worth installing, do you have an opinion? Not sure what a bit metallic switch is.


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm new to this and have read all the forums your suppose to read before posting and have read threads trying to learn. I respect all your opinions and see valid points on both sides and believe both sides are just trying to help, and since I'm new here I don't want to make any enemies!


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## mellow (Sep 23, 2014)

My 2cents would be that stove would be a great workshop/garage stove, for your house I would get something newer, especially if you are putting in new chimney pipe, why go through all that expense to put in something that is close to 30 years old.

Keep searching for a newer used stove, they are out there.

I would check out this Country Hearth, it says it comes with piping:   http://dayton.craigslist.org/for/4680853908.html

Check the woodstove over really good for any cracks or signs of overheating (paint turns white/warping).   Maybe you can get the guy to include the class A piping with that.


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## begreen (Sep 23, 2014)

Burning damp wood in any stove is a recipe for a poor fire and heat. I still have a pre EPA stove that we used to use in the house. The difference in heat output between poorly seasoned wood and dry wood is very noticeable, as is the amount of smoke coming out of the chimney. All stoves should be burning well seasoned wood, not just modern ones. More heat, less creosote and pollution is a good thing.

PS: Please keep polarized political opinions and name calling out of the thread.


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 23, 2014)

mellow said:


> My 2cents would be that stove would be a great workshop/garage stove, for your house I would get something newer, especially if you are putting in new chimney pipe, why go through all that expense to put in something that is close to 30 years old.
> 
> Keep searching for a newer used stove, they are out there.
> 
> ...



Thats actually just around the corner from me...so since you recommended it im guessing thats a good brand. Im calling now.
Thanks!


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## mellow (Sep 23, 2014)

It is a budget stove, guessing it is the 2000 model, but it is still better than the older one you have now.


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## bholler (Sep 23, 2014)

I know i shouldn't but i will address schwammys post a little.  Dry wood is important for any stove but i do feel that some on here are a bit fanatical about it.  My wood is cut split and covered for one year and 90% of it is 20% or lower.  I am a sweep with a customer list of roughly 3000 and most of them do not dry for more than a year and the majority of their chimneys do not look to bad at all And most of them are very happy with the heat output.  Many have old stoves many have new ones.  I understand that you prefer old stoves and there is nothing wrong with that but the fact is that new stoves give you more heat out of each piece of wood and put less creosote in the chimney which means there is less chance for a chimney fire.  I agree that to many guys automatically say you need to replace you old stove but that does not mean that new stoves are no good.  And by the way almost every time we install a new stove the customer says they should have done it long ago they work much better.


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 23, 2014)

mellow said:


> It is a budget stove, guessing it is the 2000 model, but it is still better than the older one you have now.


Hey mello.. I went and checked out tge stove. It was purchased last year. Looks like it had good reviews here . There wete a couple broken firebricks. Doest have much room for wood, I was suprised at how small the firebox was, is that normal for the new stoves?


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 23, 2014)

Ugh,,, don't buy the country hearth, I own the big brother 2500, save your money and go with the Englander - while my stove heats good, it has other problems. To fully clean the stove (as with many types) you need to take out the secondary re-tubes and baffle board, on my stove every screw (which is only a sheet metal self tapper) broke, I had to re-tap everyone, the baffle is one large and very fragile board (mine after two seasons is on it last leg) The stove is made in china, were in my opinion there is less quality control, my opinion was re-affirmed when I replaced the door gasket last year, I looked up the size (5/8") and bought the rutland 5/8 gasket replacement kit, to my surprise the gasket was way to small for the door grove (dollar bill test) I went to a stove shop near by and asked what the next size up was from 5/8" and bought the 3/4" (which was a little to big, but worked better then the 5/8") it was a case of fine engineering. After the winter when I did my final clean I noticed that the stove developed cracks around the door frame, each crack was identical approx. 1/2" on the top side (upper right and left)
My friend bought an Englander nc-30 (I helped install) and I noticed how much beefier the stove is, the metal box is thicker than mine, door and assembly seems stronger and easier, little bit longer fire box for north and south loading, seems easier to take apart for cleaning (2 baffle boards instead of one) 
Please don't make the same mistake as me, if you are on a budget go with the better engineered Englander, best bang for your dollar in my opinion. Oh and by the way the never heard anything bad about the customer service either, I vented in a different thread similar to this about my US stove and how I was going to buy a blaze king, some guy ( I guess he represents US stove) became hostile and then after all said and done wanted me to pm him with info (so he could help me out) Right then and there I realized I would never buy another product from that company.


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## tecumseh03 (Sep 24, 2014)

Ugghh my head hurts, didnt know there was so many things to look for. Think ill try and swing the money for the Englander 30nc. lowes doesnt carry? Only HD? I did hook up with a arborist that dumps ash at my house. There is some 5 year old oak there also.


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