# window world?



## chrisasst (Oct 13, 2009)

Has any one ever bought windows from window world? They advertise $289 installed...(minimum width and height of 14¼" X 25¼" and a maximum of 48” X 78”)     sounds to good to be true..


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## Gooserider (Oct 23, 2009)

Check out the quality carefully - there can be a lot of difference between the grades of material used, kinds of glass, etc...  It can be confusing as all get out, but IMHO it's worth it if you shop around and look for the better grade windows, which can sometimes be had for not a lot more than that...  I would also look for some independent evaluations on the windows, such as the Efficient Windows Collaborative - if they don't say that the windows are well regarded, I'd be really nervous about them.

Another thing to look at is what kind of windows you are getting - the old traditional double hung style tend to be about as bad as it gets for efficiency, all else being equal.  If your style sense allows it, you are far better off to get an awning or side opening window as they will close and seal much tighter.

Gooserider


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Oct 26, 2009)

I don't know anyone who has used Window World. but being in the Industry, I can tell you for sure that there is always a compromise. If it is a low price there is a reason. Here are some thing to look at ot think about. 

From what I have been able to gather, the windows in there add these windows do not meet the energy guidelines to qualify for the tax credit offered from the government. They do offer better  more ebergy efficient windows, but they cost more. 

I would like to know what "strandard installation" includes. This is a tactic that a number of windows jockey's use. "We install for $200.00" but that doesn't include disposal, replacment of window stops, interior casing, finishing, or other fabricated charges. This should lead you to ask, how can someone give you an accurate price on installation without knowing everything about the installation? Are they going to ignore problems and cover them up if they get out there and you have rot or other issue.

That is not say that I think they are bad. Just be sure to go slow, don't sign anything or make any deposits until your are 100% sure wbout what you are getting and paying for. these types of companies usually make up for the "low price" on the other end. they are going to make money somehow, and they can't  if they are selling a good quality window, with a quality installed $289.00. 

Sorry If I have rambled, there is just alot about the particular subject that get's mire fired up.


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## SolarAndWood (Oct 26, 2009)

Keep your eye on Bargain Outlet for inexpensive windows although I think the one in Cortland may have closed?  If you are patient, you will find decent windows at great prices.  I have found wood Jeld-Wen, Pella and Armstrongs there from time to time.


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## chrisasst (Oct 26, 2009)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> Keep your eye on Bargain Outlet for inexpensive windows although I think the one in Cortland may have closed?  If you are patient, you will find decent windows at great prices.  I have found wood Jeld-Wen, Pella and Armstrongs there from time to time.



Actually they moved to a bigger location. I have looked at there windows but I don't even know how to start to replace windows..I would have a mess on  my hands..


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## chrisasst (Oct 26, 2009)

murph said:
			
		

> I don't know anyone who has used Window World. but being in the Industry, I can tell you for sure that there is always a compromise. If it is a low price there is a reason. Here are some thing to look at ot think about.
> 
> From what I have been able to gather, the windows in there add these windows do not meet the energy guidelines to qualify for the tax credit offered from the government. They do offer better  more ebergy efficient windows, but they cost more.
> 
> ...



According to the website----“Installed” refers to the removal of a basic wood double hung window and replacing it with a vinyl Window World double hung window, using the existing wooden stops.-----

Right now any window is better than what I have.  Like you said though, I have an old house and the wood may be rotted under the window frame, so do they replace it or not..

I had barrier window do 2 windows 2 years ago ($2000) which I am still paying on, but if I recall they replaced some wood...


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Oct 26, 2009)

Don't let anyone fool you your right.  If you older windows are in bad shape, any new window will help, and if they are going to help, they need to fit the budget. Insert replacement windows are very easy to install (if you handy at all). But true carpenters earn their money when they run into rot etc. 
At $1000 per opening, while expensive, that's not unusual in the replacment window industry.  Unfortunatly the windows most replacement companies use, should sell at like $200 - $250 ish. (size depending), plus a $250 install. But they sell unsuspecting customers all sorts of techno babble on how there windows will save the world with Krypton as and such. 

It is probably worth calling the window world people and seeing what they have to offer. But I would also recommend you go to your local professional lumber yard, see what windows they have to offer and ask if they install (most have a program these days), or if they will referr one of thier regular contractors. That's is where and professional window people have been doing business from the begining. They are usualy local people with a stake in the community, and usually will find a good deal on a quality job.

sorry for rambling again.


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## Gooserider (Oct 26, 2009)

Just out of curiosity Murph, do you think that the Efficient Window Collaborative site I linked to earlier is a worth while place to look up window makers at, or is there a better place to get good evaluations for quality and energy efficiency?  

Also how much of an improvement in a window is it worth paying more to get?  I've noticed that many places push the triple pane Krypton filled windows, and often they aren't a whole lot more than a decent grade double pane Argon or such - how much difference does it make in real world efficiency, and is it worth paying say $50 more a window to get?

I've also been working on the assumption that the labor to put in a window is pretty much independent of the window chosen - it should cost about the same to install a top grade window as a cheapy, correct?

Gooserider


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Oct 27, 2009)

Speaking in generic terms. No I don't believe that it is worth the extra cost to add krypton or triple pane. To be specific I would need to look up all of the performance numbers, but here it is in approximate Terms.

vinyl window with dbl pane 
clear insulated glass has a U factor around .48 - .50
    Typical Low-e glass will drop to around  .31 - .35 makes a big difference
                                              Add Argon .28 - .30 (Argon disipates over time, too many variables to know how long it will last.)
                                            Add Krypton .23 -.25 (Big price difference - not suppose to disipate)
Triple pain windows are all over the place. I've seen all sorts of claims. I don't know what to believe. We sell Marvin and Alliance Vinyl Windows here. Both have the ability to add Triple pane. Doing so according to both manufacturers only changes the u-factor by .05 or so, doesn't sound like it's is worth to me. The Reason for this is by adding the extra pane of glass, they reduce the thickness of each and the dead air space between, which is where the real insulation value is coming from. This window cost allot more, they are significantly heavier and IMHO it just adds more potential for failure. 
The point of all of that is to drop the u-factor by the first .15 - .20 point cost you and extra $20 is (depends on size). but to drop it another .10 (with triple pane / krypton) probably going to add another $50- 150 per unit.  And can't be sure that means for energy savings.

I can't get a straight answer from anyone (Becasue I don't think anyone can tell you)  on what any of thses numbers mean in the real world. there are too many variables like the  weather region you live in, the size of the window and other variables.

Your correct that the installation should be the same regardless of the window. that being said some companies will assume that you are willing to and can afford to pay more for installation, when you buy a better window. Replacement in home sales companies (new-pro / penguin type companies ) are particularly notorious when it comes to this practice.

rambling again sorry -


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Oct 27, 2009)

Sorry I didn't have a chance to really look at the site yet. But It looks like a nice resource. I'm interested in learning more about it. I will report back if I find anything interesting. I wonder sho it is that sponsors th site?


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## Later (Oct 27, 2009)

My experience has convinced me that replacement window prices are relatively similar for similar products. My deciding factor is that I try to give business to local contractors and not chain stores - even if the chain outfits hire local subs.


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## 4 cords (Oct 31, 2009)

I dont like those ads if you buy 6 windows you get 3 free,  wow if I sold you 6 windows at 1000 per unit I could give you 8 more free , I sell Harvey replacement windows and install- my average window installed is 300 per double hung energy star rated .  That must be why people look at me funny when I give a quote ( he must work for peanuts dear) Yikes thanks for the help in adjusting my pricing -and yes rot repair is extra but not 700 per to replace a board.


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## Dune (Oct 31, 2009)

4 cords said:
			
		

> I dont like those ads if you buy 6 windows you get 3 free,  wow if I sold you 6 windows at 1000 per unit I could give you 8 more free , I sell Harvey replacement windows and install- my average window installed is 300 per double hung energy star rated .  That must be why people look at me funny when I give a quote ( he must work for peanuts dear) Yikes thanks for the help in adjusting my pricing -and yes rot repair is extra but not 700 per to replace a board.



Around here $500 installed.(Cape Cod)


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 3, 2009)

As you can see both Dune and 4 cord are in a similar price range. Neither of which are close to the type of money Newpro charges. But, they both above the price of Window World which makes me say hmmm...What is Window World up to? You know they will have a higher overhead. They are a larger company with more cost to cover.


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## Gooserider (Nov 3, 2009)

murph said:
			
		

> As you can see both Dune and 4 cord are in a similar price range. Neither of which are close to the type of money Newpro charges. But, they both above the price of Window World which makes me say hmmm...What is Window World up to? You know they will have a higher overhead. They are a larger company with more cost to cover.



Larger company, but presumably more customers, which spreads the fixed costs out more...  However as pointed out there is a LOT of difference in the qualities of the windows - it can be worth listening to the spiels of some of the high end window outfits when they point out all the flaws in the cheapo windows that are sometimes installed by the super cheap places, or the "contractor windows" sold at Home Despot.  

Window World might be selling the super cheap end windows to make the bottom line.  I could also see them doing a variant on "Bait & Switch" where they get in the door with the cheap window, and then upsell you based on "well this window is X% better for ONLY...."  Another wrinkle might be to try and sell (at a much heftier profit) repairs to anything else they can find... (I.e. hundreds to replace that rotted board)

Gooserider


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 4, 2009)

Good Point Goose.  For instance, I think I read on their website that the $289.00 windows don't qualify for the tax credit. I honestly don't know what they are selling. But I know we sell a few different "levels" of vinly windows and we Sell Marvin. The only one I can see getting installed for $300.00 or less is the cheapest vinyl window we sell. even then it would have to be a small size, and no repair work.


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## woodsman23 (Nov 4, 2009)

I would get the windows, if yours are as bad as you say i'd get them now and worry about getting better ones down the road when times are better. Windows account for only like 10% insulation value anyways. I say get em.. I would just buy some cheapy ones and install them myself, it is really simple to do.


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## chrisasst (Nov 6, 2009)

Here is one of my windows that need replacing...


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## woodsman23 (Nov 6, 2009)

Yep go get em quickly. It will help big time but you are not getting that one for under 300 bucks.... i'd look around for a nice used one...


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 6, 2009)

It's hard to say from the picture, but it looks like you might have some rot going on with the frame. If so, I would strongly recommned a complete replacement with a new construction window. Using an insert replacement (which is what I believe windows world sells) will cover up the rot and you'll  likely have problems down the road. 

A complete window won't cost much more to buy. But there is a little more work to install. Woodsman is right though, even an inexpensive window will save your heat and head aches.


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## pastera (Nov 6, 2009)

My last house had replacements installed before I bought - Previous owner claimed a 10K price on install for 13 windows (small windows in a 70's era home).

The windows were installed into rotten casings with no attempt to fix, patch or insulate. 

One by one I pulled the windows and made or rebuilt the casings with expanded PVC (maybe PE) boards, sill plates and moldings (will never rot) taking about 2 hours a window from start to finish.

If it was for me to do from the start, I would put in complete windows using brand name windows as funds were available, as long as you can get direct fitting windows.

If your not handy, get quotes from both a replacement company and a contractor (complete windows) - make sure the replacement company quotes on repairing any existing problems. Ask the contractor to quote installing the windows weather tight separately and do the interior trim work yourself if you want the windows in fast and still save a bundle (finish work is expensive)


Aaron


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## chrisasst (Nov 6, 2009)

yeah, I wouldn't know where to start after I got the window out....


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## woodsman23 (Nov 7, 2009)

chrisasst said:
			
		

> yeah, I wouldn't know where to start after I got the window out....



Well it really is not that hard, once you get the window out you need to check for rot and remove anything rotted. Then you just replace what was rotted with new wood and install window.


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## woodsman23 (Nov 7, 2009)

Check this place out and see if they come your way.


www.windowdepotus.com


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## rowerwet (Dec 13, 2009)

I have window world windows, 10 of em, I love them, I have posted on other threads, but I tried HD installed windows, and found them to be overpriced ($400+) and the safety stops pop out if you hit them hard with the window (forgetting they are there when putting in a fan) a complaint got us a handfull of extra stops. The HD windows are also single hung. 
Window world were $150 each when I got them, I went for the $10 more for a screen on each window, (that is how they make their money, $10 for a screen, more for argon gas filled, more for low E coating, more for bars in the window to simulate panes). I love the window world windows and have thought of replacing the HD windows with more window world windows. I had old windows like yours and they were the best investment I paid someone else to do to the house.
Window World is now Ritewindow as far as I know, They get cheaper windows by having one factory that supplies the whole country and buys in bulk. 
When I was window shopping I was told that after the glass coatings and filler gas, the next biggest energy saver with vinyl windows is how many stops are in each window frame channel, they stop air from circulating the heat inside the frame and make the window stronger.


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## chrisasst (Dec 13, 2009)

rowerwet said:
			
		

> I have window world windows, 10 of em, I love them, I have posted on other threads, but I tried HD installed windows, and found them to be overpriced ($400+) and the safety stops pop out if you hit them hard with the window (forgetting they are there when putting in a fan) a complaint got us a handfull of extra stops. The HD windows are also single hung.
> Window world were $150 each when I got them, I went for the $10 more for a screen on each window, (that is how they make their money, $10 for a screen, more for argon gas filled, more for low E coating, more for bars in the window to simulate panes). I love the window world windows and have thought of replacing the HD windows with more window world windows. I had old windows like yours and they were the best investment I paid someone else to do to the house.
> Window World is now Ritewindow as far as I know, They get cheaper windows by having one factory that supplies the whole country and buys in bulk.
> When I was window shopping I was told that after the glass coatings and filler gas, the next biggest energy saver with vinyl windows is how many stops are in each window frame channel, they stop air from circulating the heat inside the frame and make the window stronger.




Does that include installing $ or is $150 just the wiindow it self.


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## rowerwet (Dec 13, 2009)

yes the price was for the window installed, I got the price wrong though my wife reminded me it was $189 plus $10 for the screen, that was four years ago.


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