# How long does your burn pot last? Specifically on a harman PC45.



## OverlookEGR (Jan 24, 2015)

I just bought a house which has a pellet stove in it (a harman pc45). I don't know exactly how old it is, but it is at least 4 years old. I have put almost 3 tons of pellets through it this year. It has two different burn pots. The one with the larger holes is the one  using for wood pellets. And one with smaller holes. By holes, I mean perforations. And the harman dealer near here says that the manufacturer is now saying to leave the "stir stick" in even for pellets. 

My burn pot is starting to show significant cracks between the holes in the back near the auger where the fire is hottest.  I'm thinking about drilling out the other one that is meant for corn. It has smaller holes and doesn't work well with pellets.   Does anyone have any thoughts?


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## Bioburner (Jan 24, 2015)

I bought a used PC45 with the crosslink and it was two seasons used and now I am into 3 seasons use. I see little wear and burn close to 50% corn without a stirrer. Now there was a upgrade kit that left the end of the tray open for ash to dump off from. The picture show the pellet tray with the upgrade of the cap. Seems to allow the burn pile to get farther out and not get a pile of hot coals at the auger mouth. If your not planning on ever trying to burn straight corn I would go ahead and bore out the holes. There is a change of dip switches also to change the feed.
Something else to consider is that stove can be changed to the P61 with Harmans pot and a new control board and couple other things if and when the expensive air pump goes taking the igniter with it.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 24, 2015)

I have that upgrade kit, but I was having trouble with burning material falling over the edge. I am operating my stove on room temp with the temp sensor across the room on an inside wall about 4 ft off the floor. I also have a ceiling fan that I run on low or medium all the time. I keep the room around 69-70. I've been running the blower on medium and the auger feed on the line between 3 and 4. 

Here is a pic of how my stove is now. This is when it it idled back, not burning hard. I did clean out the stove completely this fall before I started using it. I didn't remove the ESP though. I clean out the stove every now and then.  If I notice a build up of burnt ash, I have scraped the burn put in between cleanings. 

How do you run your stove? Does it ramp up and burn hot sometimes? Does the ash spill over?


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## Bioburner (Jan 24, 2015)

I will PM you


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 24, 2015)

Can you tell me more about your crosslink?  Maybe this summer I could put one in my stove and run it to my kitchen floor?


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## jp99 (Jan 24, 2015)

OverlookEGR said:


> And the harman dealer near here says that the manufacturer is now saying to leave the "stir stick" in even for pellets.



Interesting. I never use the stir rod when burning mostly pellets, but the large hole pot and the small end cap. I never have had the fire fall off the end. I think two of the DIP switches - 7 & 8 - control how quickly the feed rate changes and that might help. Somewhere on this site is a list of what each one does. 

I would think the stir rod would break the wood fire up too much. The corn of course needs it. 

I do run in stove mode though, not temperature mode. I have a consistent burn rate because of that. 

With 100% pellets, I find the ash residue can become hard and block proper movement of the ash. Hence I use 10-15% corn and it breaks the ash up nicely. I have a good movement of ash off the pot this way.


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## Bioburner (Jan 24, 2015)

jp99 said:


> Interesting. I never use the stir rod when burning mostly pellets, but the large hole pot and the small end cap. I never have had the fire fall off the end. I think two of the DIP switches - 7 & 8 - control how quickly the feed rate changes and that might help. Somewhere on this site is a list of what each one does.
> 
> I would think the stir rod would break the wood fire up too much. The corn of course needs it.
> 
> ...


What feed rate,but remembering that as the manual states needs to be adjusted to fuel?


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## jp99 (Jan 24, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> What feed rate,but remembering that as the manual states needs to be adjusted to fuel?



For pellets with 10-15% corn, I have the feed set to 1.5-2.5, and stove setting of 1.5-4, depending on outside temperature.

(Edit - that is with large hole pot, large hole combustion fan plate, and pellet end cap)


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## Bioburner (Jan 24, 2015)

I use fuel setting of three with close to half corn that has a RM under 10 percent. When mixed with Indeck pellets this year have a very nice tan ash in stove.


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## jp99 (Jan 24, 2015)

That's a good setting and result. I'm not sure my corn is much under 14 RM.

Of course the feed setting is a max anyway.

Do you run in temperature mode, or stove?

And OverlookEGR, I've been using my PC45 since 2008.  No cracks or issues with my large hole burn pot over the years. In corn mode I usually run the small hole pot, but until a month ago I had run mostly pellets for the last 4 years with the large hole pot. I do keep mine somewhat cleaner than yours though to extract the heat more efficiently.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 24, 2015)

"That's a good setting and result. *I'm not sure my corn is much under 14 RM*."

You do not want to be burning 14 RM corn, way too much moisture and way too much nitric vapor being given off in combustion.  You need corn below 12%RM to achieve a good burn, no exceptions.

In Post Number 3, the stirrer rod (agitator) is exhibiting definite signs of oxidation from an oxygen rich (oxidizing flame, why the ends of the prongs are tapering off.  Ideally, you want a neutral flame, not oxidizing and gasification above the fuel bed when the stove is operating wityh a falme thats not lazy but not a ,blow torch' either (and that applies to any stove, not just a Harman

That can also be why your fuel pot is degrading, it will oxidize just like the stir rod does, from an oxidizing flame.

Years ago, I thought I was doing the 'right thing' by dialing in the air and driving the flame.  Actually, all I was doing was eating stir rods and making funky fuel pots.  I stopped doing that a few years back (throttled the air back) and my heat output increased and 'consumable parts' became non-consumable.

The above apples to any make.

Interestingly, I run 2 pots, switching out one for the other at cleaning and soaking the pulled one in water to loosen deposits and both my pots are large hole.  I found the large holes make it easier to control and add underfire oxygen.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks for the input sidecar. Maybe I should put the combustion fan cover plate with the smaller opening in then? I don't really know how else to control the air on this stove. I burn straight pellets and have no real plans to burn corn. 

JP99, I suppose I would do well to keep my stove a little more clean. Right now, I empty the ash bucket every 10-12 days and about every other time, I scrape the heat exchanger. I scrape the burn pot more often though. The pic does show a build up of ash. 

I want to maintain the stove well, but I don't want to spend more time than I need cleaning it.


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## Bioburner (Jan 25, 2015)

One has no control over the air in a Harman other than the exhaust plate and that may be the issue as the ash in the tray is being trapped and reflecting extra heat back and the extra stirring inputs more air and causing IMO your degradation. The large holed exhaust plate is for the upgrade with the open ended burn tray. Like adding a turbo to a engine and not changing fuel settings so things get hotter.
I clean the exchangers everyday as the crosslink collects ash pretty fast and brush the pot, but the total time for that is only about 15 seconds. Total cleaning is about every three weeks and ash bin is full usually in a week with corn blend.


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## bags (Jan 25, 2015)

These guys are the ones you want to listen to on the corn burning and or mixing with pellets. Bio has your exact PC45 and so do I. I have burned a 50 / 50 mix of corn and pellets in both my PC45 and P68 without an issue but have not done it a bunch yet.
I found that running the pellet pot and large hole exhaust plate in the 45 works well. Get rid if the end plate and go with the pellet set up if that is what you intend on burning. The end of the pellet pot is open and there is no need for the agitator or "stir stick" when operating like this.

I have ran numerous bags thru the 45 this way and it operates much like my new 68 when configured with the proper pellet burning set up. The pellet pot does have larger holes and a small retaining clip at the end of the pot that is flush with the pot's bottom. Ash and stuff pushes right off and over with it. Cleaning and scraping is easier too. From the looks of your photo you need a clean and should do a good one at least every ton burned. Also do the weekly tune up of a quick clean of the fire box and all for best burning results.

BTW, Welcome Overlook! Bio can give you some good quick and easy tune up tips and get you running well. Rona also knows the PC45 well and some others here. It will help you tremendously to do some of this stuff (cleaning and checking over things) and familiarize yourself with your 45 and prevent unnecessary glitches and heating delays. Good Luck!

The pots and stirrers are wear items and do need to be replace in intervals. Bio has good recommendations as to where to find them and myself and others can offer suggestions. You have found the right guy for questions on the 45 so PM Bio as he has suggested so he can square you away. I do know corn is a lot harsher and tends to wear pots, stirrers, and stuff quicker but with proper cleaning you can get a lot of time from them.


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## jp99 (Jan 25, 2015)

OverlookEGR said:


> JP99, I suppose I would do well to keep my stove a little more clean. Right now, I empty the ash bucket every 10-12 days and about every other time, I scrape the heat exchanger. I scrape the burn pot more often though. The pic does show a build up of ash.
> 
> I want to maintain the stove well, but I don't want to spend more time than I need cleaning it.



I agree Overlook - I don't like cleaning the stove. It's more that I have to than I want to. 

With 80% corn I'm emptying the ash pan every 3 days and doing a quick vacuum of the bottom section. I shut down the stove once a week for a complete cleaning in the top section and to swap in a clean stir rod.  When I burn 85-90% pellets I go a month before emptying the ash pan. In either case I clean the heat exchanger every 2-3 days for efficiency, though the lighter ash of pellets fouls it faster than corn ash.  Sometimes with pellets I clean the heat exchanger daily. 

Corn is definitely more cleaning work, but at $160/ton vs $250 for pellets it's worth the time.


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## jp99 (Jan 25, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> One has no control over the air in a Harman other than the exhaust plate ...



Not quite - DIP switch 4 also adjusts the airflow. If it's set On you can hear the combustion fan speed increase.


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## Bioburner (Jan 25, 2015)

That may be true but what other changes in the burn algorithms? Without a DDM or data from HHT we are shooting blind


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## jp99 (Jan 25, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> That may be true but what other changes in the burn algorithms? Without a DDM or data from HHT we are shooting blind



I'm not sure about the newer boards. I have the old model and the data in the old "I Burn Corn" forums from 5 years ago indicated DIP 4 on set the combustion fan voltage to full, and switch 4 off made the voltage variable. That will affect how the system responds as the ESP temperature will change, but it's an end result of the airflow change.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

I don't own a Harman (might in the future) in as much as I like them but need to save the green stamps to get one...lol, but I've roasted corn and a corn pellet mix in my USSC for at least 15 years so I have a pretty good handle on what different varibles when it comes to combustion aie=r, corn moisture and pellet quality do and how they impact not only heat output and ash buildup but also how the stove components that are subject to the heat of combustion react.

The principles of combustion remain the same across every stove, boiler or stand alone.  Different stoves control the facets of combustion (combustion air, feed rate and ash removal) in different ways but the combustion air must be controlled to a point where the flam is non oxidizing ot your slowly destroyall the components in direct contact with the burn itself, the stri rod, , burn pot, ebd of the auger and to a lesser extent, the internal baffles in ths tove itself, that the flame actually comes in contact with (thats called impingement btw).

No matter what brand, you will become a 'slave to the stove' because it has to be cleaned regularly but the frequency of cleaning is dependent on one, design, two quality and ash content of the pellets used and three, the corn (if used( and the RM of the corn as well as test weight (test weight is the measure of the 'meat' inside the husk.  Thats what burns or in proper terms, 'carmelizes' and makes heat and the residue or what you get after the g burn from corn is the husk.

Any corn burned in any appliance MUST be clean either with an corn cleaner or by the provider, in my case I have corn delivered and tanked that has been cleaned for animal feed, both magnetically and with vacuum, removing cob pieces, stones, hardware, leaves and any other junk from the field.  You can't butn corn direct from the field, it has to be cleaned and the moisture must be below 12% to combust properly.

Bio can instruct you on how to tell if the corn is in the proper burn range with the 'pliers test', or invest in a moisture meter.  I use a Delmhorst but it also gets used in my farm business.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

Bio, Rona needs to jump in this thread, want to PM him or should I do it?


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## Indiana (Jan 25, 2015)

This is my 5th season and I am on my 2nd burn pot. The second pot is already in poor condition. I will need a new one before the next heating season. The pot itself stays in good condition, but the top ring degrades and wears thin. I think due to my letting ash build up between The front of the ring and the air wash deflector plate. I only shut my CPM down on Sunday mornings.


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## Bioburner (Jan 25, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Bio, Rona needs to jump in this thread, want to PM him or should I do it?


I have been trying to make most of my replies to the thread applicable to the OP who burns only pellets. The PC45 is a bit quirky. I have used three different ages of CB and all burn a bit different. If I hadn't had to buy a new board this season I would have bought a DDM and would be able to get more info on its settings and configurations. Might be the reason Harman decided to stop manufacture as the many options caused to many headaches when owners don't use the accessories as the manufacture states. Easier to just mount a pot, install one exhaust plate, and one set of dip switch settings, and get out of the dedicated multifuel with its set of headaches of how dry and how many chunks etc.


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## johninwi (Jan 25, 2015)

The large hole burn pot holes are 1/8" (0.125"), no sense in just letting it sit on the shelf, drill it out. A new burn pot is $60 from my dealer.

The small hole exhaust plate does work better for my setup, test it.

If you running room temp and pellets are falling off the end of the pot reduce your feed about a half point, keep droping it back till your about an inch from the edge of the pot. Using the short end plate and no stirrer may reduce the blown around ash too, let it fall straight to the pan.

I have 4 years on a pc45 burning pellets, i have no damage to the burn pot like you describe. I had experimented with the stirrer and it isn't helpful for pellets. 

There had been a thread about the harman pb105 furnace cracking the burn pot, the factory fixed that by adding ribs across the bottom of the pot, i guess it helped absorbe some of the heat and the steel didn't deterioate.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

johninwi said:


> The large hole burn pot holes are 1/8" (0.125"), no sense in just letting it sit on the shelf, drill it out. A new burn pot is $60 from my dealer.
> 
> The small hole exhaust plate does work better for my setup, test it.
> 
> ...


 
Then your combustion flame isn't O2 positive.  If it was, your start eating ferrous parts in direct contact with the flame.  That applies to corn and pellets, fuel don't matter.  What matters is oxygen content.  If I was the guy of Flea Bay selling stirrer/agitator rods, I'd tell everyone to run a 'blowtorch' flame and sell a pile of stirrers (and burn pots too).

In actuality, a blow torch flame transfers less heat to the HX (or in BB's case HX and Crosslink) than a moderate (somewhat lazy but not agressive flame) because the dwell time for the heat trabsfer is less with the agressive flame.  You keep the venting hot, thats about it.

My 6039-41 (which is basically a Magnum Countryside copied by USSC has enough built into the control board settings (user accessable so long as you know how to access them) to control the air/fuel mixture exactly the way I want it.  Your stove may be different..

I've been playing with this stuff for over 30 years and thats no bs.  I started way back when Dove Tek and England Stove were the only 2 manufacturers that produced space heaters that were widely available and venting was limited to Simpson and Selkirk and not all that much variety wise either.

They have come a long way but the principles of combustion remain the same.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> *I have been trying to make most of my replies to the thread applicable to the OP who burns only pellets*. The PC45 is a bit quirky. I have used three different ages of CB and all burn a bit different. If I hadn't had to buy a new board this season I would have bought a DDM and would be able to get more info on its settings and configurations. Might be the reason Harman decided to stop manufacture as the many options caused to many headaches when owners don't use the accessories as the manufacture states. Easier to just mount a pot, install one exhaust plate, and one set of dip switch settings, and get out of the dedicated multifuel with its set of headaches of how dry and how many chunks etc.


 
Far as I'm concerned you are doing a good job, as usual.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 25, 2015)

Ok. After church, we had a family over for lunch, and I did a little playing with the stove after they left. 

I'm a little unsure exactly what should be posted, so if I'm discussing something that doesn't belong here, let me know. 

I shut the stove down, cleaned it out, installed the small hole combustion plate (to reduce air) and left out the stir stick. My small hole burn pot is in great shape, so I did drill out a few holes on the bottom to 1/8". Not too many though. I left out the stir stick. I'd rather burn without it because it adds extra noise to the stove operation. And I've always been a fan of the KISS principle anyway. 

I really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks for all the introductions


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## Bioburner (Jan 25, 2015)

Did you install the open ended tray end to let the ash just drop off the end as in the picture I posted?


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

Unlerss you are running a corn/pellet mix or straight corn, from what I can surmise from the shape of the pot design, you don't need a stirrer and it's one less piece to wear out.  In my case with my unit, I need a stirrer all the time, no matter what fuel because of the shap of the pot and the fuel delivery system.

My rule of thumb is 1/8" air holes as well, but not every hole gets enlarged, in fact, my suggestion would be do a few, try the unit and if it seems to warrant a few more, do them.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 25, 2015)

Yes, BB. I think I need to dial down the feed rate some more because it's spilling over the end. Burning pellets, that is. 

Yeah, sidecar, I like that idea.  I'll drill few for now. I'll update after it has had a little while to burn.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 25, 2015)

Here is a pic shortly after I fired the stove back up. It was ramped up pretty high to catch up from being off for a while.


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## Bioburner (Jan 25, 2015)

OverlookEGR said:


> Here is a pic shortly after I fired the stove back up. It was ramped up pretty high to catch up from being off for a while.


Looks pretty fair to me. Did you get the ESP cleaned too.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm just gonna have to open my wallet (and blow the cobwebs out) and buy myself a Harman too...........  I do like the design and of course the corn capability.


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## Tonyray (Jan 25, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Unlerss you are running a corn/pellet mix or straight corn, from what I can surmise from the shape of the pot design, you don't need a stirrer and it's one less piece to wear out.  In my case with my unit, I need a stirrer all the time, no matter what fuel because of the shap of the pot and the fuel delivery system.
> 
> My rule of thumb is 1/8" air holes as well, but not every hole gets enlarged, in fact, my suggestion would be do a few, try the unit and if it seems to warrant a few more, do them.


Could someone tell this Harman Owner What a Stirrer is??


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

Post number 3 graphically illustrates a stirrer/agitator rod in a Harman....


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## Tonyray (Jan 25, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Post number 3 graphically illustrates a stirrer/agitator rod in a Harman....


ok...


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 25, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Could someone tell this Harman Owner What a Stirrer is??



To my knowledge, the stir stick (agitator) came with the PC model stove. (pellets, corn). The stir stick helps the corn to burn more thoroughly. Theoretically.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm sure BB knows as well as Rona but I believe the PC45 comes with an agitator but it's big brother, the 61 don't, but I could be wrong because I don't own one (presently).


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## johninwi (Jan 25, 2015)

OverlookEGR said:


> The stir stick helps the corn to burn more thoroughly.



exactly, does a descent job of it too, drawback being the ash will fly around more

Overlook, back your feed down more, I'm more familare with stove temp but never had fire reach that far to the front.

My understanding of the relation of the temp control and the feed control is that the by lowering the feed you will be forcing the stove to react slower but the fuel will have more time to burn. There's a good sticky entitled "How your Harman works"


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## rona (Jan 25, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I'm sure BB knows as well as Rona but I believe the PC45 comes with an agitator but it's big brother, the 61 don't, but I could be wrong because I don't own one (presently).


The PC45 is the only stove designed to burn straight corn in the Harman line.  Their claim is the agitator has to be used to allow the corn to be burned in a efficient manner in order to break the 40,000btu barrier.  The other models can burn a blend of corn and pellets but not 100% corn.


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## Tonyray (Jan 25, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I'm sure BB knows as well as Rona but I believe the PC45 comes with an agitator but it's big brother, the 61 don't, but I could be wrong because I don't own one (presently).


P61 doesn't.. nor the P68....


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## adam6979 (Jan 26, 2015)

Fourth year on the Quad and plenty of pot left, no signs of any wear, Third year on the 55trpah and based on how it looks I'd say it'll be good for at least 3 more years. nice thing about the 55 trpah is it is just steel so if it wears I can just cut out the bad part and weld on steel stock, drill some holes and back in business..


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## bags (Jan 26, 2015)

Tony,
Rona summed it up above. The PC45 has the stirrer because it can burn 100% corn whereas the P43, 61, and 68 do not have a stirrer and the pots are more of a half of a bell curve instead of a flat bottomed pot. The P Series all can burn up to a 50% pellet and 50% corn mix straight from the factory without modifications or adding anything additional other than corn mixed in with pellets. The 45's stirrer simply keys into the end of the auger with two prongs into slots which the auger ends on the P Series do not have. The pot for the stirrer on the PC45 has a hole in an pot end plate for the other end of the stirrer to rotate in holding the forward end in place. Very simple design. Look at the first photos Overlook posted to see this. Next look at the ones right above here and you'll see it all pretty quick as to what is what. Then look at your pot and there it all is.

Looks just like your 61 but imagine where the auger end is that the pot bottom comes out flat from there on the PC45 where the newer pots come out very slightly and then curve up and out again towards the top. The stirrer on the 45 just sticks straight out from the auger end horizontally flat like the bottom of its burn pot.

I have burned this 50 / 50 mix in my 68 and PC45 both. Much the same as burning 100% pellets but with slightly more ash and mess from the corn bi-product or kernels. You also get a little more black greasy / sticky residue with the ash of corn inside everything vs. the light gray fluffy type with pellets. I ran my PC45 just like the 68 without the stirrer while burning the 50 / 50 mix with the same looking set up in the photos right above but with the pellet pot for the 45.

The pellet pot for the 45 has larger holes just the same as your 61's burn pot holes. The corn pot has pin holes about half as large. Overlook had an extra corn pot and since he is burning pellets only he has drilled the pot holes out to 1/8" whereas the corn pot holes are 1/16" or so. When burning corn less air goes thru the pot or I guess air is slowed for a more thorough burn. Corn is hotter to ignite than pellets. Since drilling the holes large in his corn pot Overlook can still burn a 50 / 50 mix as is just like your 61 can.

Besides the burn pot being different and not using the stirrer when burning pellets in the 45 the only other thing that is changed is the exhaust blower cover to a larger holed one like what's on the 61 letting more air go thru and exhaust. You can still use the smaller holed (corn) plate too and burn pellets only, but less air goes out the exhaust. When the 45 is set up to burn 100% pellets it is 50K BTU. I tried to break it down for comparison since I have both types or both stoves. Not much difference between the 61 and PC45. Same box, size, and all. It's the burn pot. stirrer, and igniter location that makes the only difference along with the PC45 being able to burn 100% corn which most don't do anyway. There are likely some CB and other slight differences but to get a quick gist of what I mentioned is what is really different.

Some say the 45 does not burn 100% corn great anyway and when the price of corn went thru the roof it was sidelined in production. Also since the P Series all burn a 50 / 50 mix I guess Harman saw no need to any longer justify the PC45 when the P43 and/or P61 are so closely related. To put it in bizarre terms. The P43 is a small mouth bass. The 61 a large mouth bass. The PC45 can be both with a hybrid of a catfish that eats about any junk. The P68 is a pig in the pond. LOL! Now ya get it!


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## bags (Jan 26, 2015)

> SidecarFlip said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just gonna have to open my wallet (and blow the cobwebs out) and buy myself a Harman too........... I do like the design and of course the corn capability.



WHAT?  Have you taken a spill and hit your head?  LOL! Rona has some for sale....... I think Bio has one for sale too..... Price just went up on mine but it isn't for sale. 

Flip, These PC45 stoves can be had for very fair prices now and with a clean and some TLC it's like a new one. Spring is right around the corner and it will be time to shop!


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 26, 2015)

I just removed my large hole burn pot.  When I get it cleaned up, i will snap a pic with my phone to show everyone the cracks i'm talking about.  I think it might be because of the heat.  Doesn't steal fatigue under high heat conditions.  I didn't really take any materials engineering classes in school, but there's a reason they use firebrick instead of steal.  I suppose it might be partially for cost reasons and partially for insulation reasons, but i thought it was also a fatigue issue as well.  BTW, Bags has a ton of good input here    Thanks.  As a note, the PC45 is all i know, but it seems that they should have a curved end plate that emulates the other stoves a little better.  I still think i have trouble with the "fire" falling off the end of the pot without the end plate on it.


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## Bioburner (Jan 26, 2015)

Firebrick has  higher insulation  properties but not much for strength. Higher heat can take the carbon out of steel and degrade it. Hot and cold cycles further stress steel. Ash is a great insulator. Couple ways to keep the degradation of steel down. Move air through and over it or make it heavier to help dissipate the heat.


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## bags (Jan 26, 2015)

If pellets are still being pushed over the end then dial back on your feed rate about a half of a notch or speed until it stops.



OverlookEGR said:


> BTW, Bags has a ton of good input



I am a newly educated idiot around here. Just trying to give back for all the help and advice I have gotten. There are many more here with much better knowledge so mine comes last.

Overlook, The burn pots are a wear item and it can be expected that they fail in given time. They are not terribly expensive for brand new ones. Look online for them. My used 45 came with a bunch of parts (new and uselessly old) as the original owner saved them all. Even the junk replaced parts were saved, but that was good because I know what had and had not been done maintenance wise plus he had receipts and records. Big plus in buying a used unit. Point is that there were a couple of pots that had seen a better day. One was warped pretty well letting fire escape from behind it close to the auger and back wall of the fire box. One of the top grates or corn cap was hanging together by threads of metal and looked like a nuke blew it up. Why he saved that I haven't a clue... Scrap metal,,,,,, Barely.

Metal will fatigue with use and heat extremes. Much of this was likely caused by the corn burning more than pellets. Corn burning is more corrosive and rougher on wear parts like the grate, pot, and stirrers. Hence the need for a different type of multi-fuel vent pipe when burning corn instead of pellets. It is to combat the corrosive nature associated with corn.

Get some pics up and I am sure others will let you know all about what is going on or happened to said pot. Nothing is wrong with your 45 at all because the burn pot has seen a better day. It's simply worn out with high mileage. FATIGUE without a doubt. There are a lot of guys that have oodles of first hand experience with corn/pellet burning and the PC45s.

It will take you a little while to get to know your stove. Soon enough everything will make perfect sense and you will recognize what it is telling you. As a side note the pots on the newer P Series run up hill and flare back out flat at the end. They also get wider as they grow longer. The 45's is a straight flat shot. It works fine without a glitch but you need to get it tuned and dialed in. You may need some more holes drilled in the other pot to let the pellets burn more before being ejected. Let Bio and others guide you here since I am not in tune with that modification. They are.


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## Midnight Rider (Jan 26, 2015)

bags said:


> If pellets are still being pushed over the end then dial back on your feed rate about a half of a notch or speed until it stops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Midnight Rider (Jan 26, 2015)

I've been reading and trying to understand the burn. I'm new to the posting side of the process, but I am in search of some answer Concerning my Harman P43 bought new 10/08. We burn 5 ton of Okies per season and hadn't bought oil since I installed the Harman. 
I've had it deep cleaned annually. I scrap, vacuum and empty weekly.
I don't like to complain,  but I've had a lot of issues with my Harman (I also have a Napoleon in my parents in law apartment). We have replaced 4 igniters, the mother board (warranty), the combustion blower, the burn pot and now its blowing the fuse. I replaced the fuse, it worked fine on stove temp mode for 2 weeks then the fuse blew. I replaced the fuse, plugged it in and it immediately blew with a flash pop. This is now above my pay grade. 
Any thoughts on what may be causing this?


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## Bioburner (Jan 26, 2015)

Midnight Rider said:


> I've been reading and trying to understand the burn. I'm new to the posting side of the process, but I am in search of some answer Concerning my Harman P43 bought new 10/08. We burn 5 ton of Okies per season and hadn't bought oil since I installed the Harman.
> I've had it deep cleaned annually. I scrap, vacuum and empty weekly.
> I don't like to complain,  but I've had a lot of issues with my Harman (I also have a Napoleon in my parents in law apartment). We have replaced 4 igniters, the mother board (warranty), the combustion blower, the burn pot and now its blowing the fuse. I replaced the fuse, it worked fine on stove temp mode for 2 weeks then the fuse blew. I replaced the fuse, plugged it in and it immediately blew with a flash pop. This is now above my pay grade.
> Any thoughts on what may be causing this?


Start a thread with your stove in the title. Others with same stove can catch the title and help with your particular stove model. The PC45 is a way different stove then the P43 in several things. Welcome to the site


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2015)

bags said:


> Tony,
> Rona summed it up above. The PC45 has the stirrer because it can burn 100% corn whereas the P43, 61, and 68 do not have a stirrer and the pots are more of a half of a bell curve instead of a flat bottomed pot. The P Series all can burn up to a 50% pellet and 50% corn mix straight from the factory without modifications or adding anything additional other than corn mixed in with pellets. The 45's stirrer simply keys into the end of the auger with two prongs into slots which the auger ends on the P Series do not have. The pot for the stirrer on the PC45 has a hole in an pot end plate for the other end of the stirrer to rotate in holding the forward end in place. Very simple design. Look at the first photos Overlook posted to see this. Next look at the ones right above here and you'll see it all pretty quick as to what is what. Then look at your pot and there it all is.
> 
> Looks just like your 61 but imagine where the auger end is that the pot bottom comes out flat from there on the PC45 where the newer pots come out very slightly and then curve up and out again towards the top. The stirrer on the 45 just sticks straight out from the auger end horizontally flat like the bottom of its burn pot.
> ...


Thanks for the Info...
I Imagine the black grease substance comes from sugar in the corn..


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## Bioburner (Jan 26, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Thanks for the Info...
> I Imagine the black grease substance comes from sugar in the corn..


If the corn is dry one has little issue with the black crud but corn has a ignition temp that is about 200 degree higher than wood. Combine that with some higher moisture(corn often sold above 13%)and your fighting a lower burn temp that start the dark gunk.
Picture is the stove setup for straight corn burning. Notice the nice gray showing proper burn.


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> If the corn is dry one has little issue with the black crud but corn has a ignition temp that is about 200 degree higher than wood. Combine that with some higher moisture(corn often sold above 13%)and your fighting a lower burn temp that start the dark gunk.
> Picture is the stove setup for straight corn burning. Notice the nice gray showing proper burn.


yes.. I see the stir Adapter.


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 28, 2015)

Here is a pic of the degradation on my burn pot. After restricting the air somewhat, i am getting black soot on the inside of the stove


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## bags (Jan 29, 2015)

Time for a new one.....


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## Bioburner (Jan 29, 2015)

Maybe I asked but when was the last time the stove had the gaskets checked or replaced? Air not going thru the pot but around doors etc can lead to improper burning and fouling up the stove and stove feeding extra fuel too.


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