# Neighbor upset with my smoke dragon



## fespo (Oct 31, 2014)

Well there is always a first for everything. I have the Lopi in the house, flue inside all the way up through the peak of the roof, no problem. Last year I had a pleasent hearth in the green house with just double wall b lack pipe as a flue no problem. Now the problems start. This past summer I made the green house 50% bigger , its 10 x 18 now. Last winter the stove had a hard time keeping up. So my dad had a 30 year old Clayton 7.1 wood burning furnace in his basement that has not been use it the last 27 years. Great added some insulated duct work, couple holes, put up some metal roofing up above the unit and around it . It keeps that green house nice  and warm. The flue is about 10 ft from the house and about even with the roof line, its about 11' of flue. I have been burning only pallet wood nice and dry. Well the smoke is going right toward her house to the east and hanging low. She told me tonight she sleeps with the window open a little at night and it's smelling up her house. I told her will try to improve it. So, do you think by adding 3' more of flue it will help? I bought the flue tonight, I going to try tomorrow once the high winds slow down.
 Any other ideas? Thanks


----------



## Snotrocket (Oct 31, 2014)

She's going to smell it if she's still sleeping with the windows open no matter what you do.

How close is the neighbor?


----------



## fespo (Oct 31, 2014)

Just a normal suburban lot, Maybe 75ft or so.


----------



## Snotrocket (Oct 31, 2014)

Do something nice for her so she forgets about it is my advice.


----------



## fespo (Oct 31, 2014)

I really don't talk to her that much,In the last 12 years this is the second time she complained about something. The other thing was my evergreens and birds that made a nest in there and trying to attack everyone. She is a widow of about a year or so. Never really says anything about all wood and stuff. Just smoke from the beast


----------



## Charles1981 (Oct 31, 2014)

Maybe a little rock and hard place situation. If it isn't burning secondaries smoke is always an issue. And such tight quarters. 

Both my neighbors have outdoor heat-more wood boilers. They are about 1000 feet away equal distant. Some mornings when they are outside reloading it is just a stream of smoke headed towards my house. 

We all burn with wood and neither my wife nor I care (But the smoke doesn't enter our house...) By the time wood burning is started all the storm windows are up.

If I lived in the suburbs and someone that close to me had billows of smoke flowing towards my house I would be polite but would have to say something possibly. Not Sure. I really dislike neighbor confrontations which is another reason we moved out to the sticks.


----------



## fespo (Oct 31, 2014)

I trying to figure out what I can do. I do not want to cause problems. I hoping the taller flue will let the smoke catch a different draft away from her house. I choked down the lopi after filling it to make smoke so I could see what way that smoke went.  It went south with the wind, the other went east go figure


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Nov 1, 2014)

Frankly I don't think there's much you can do apart from not using the wood stove. A few extra feet of flue isn't likely to make much difference. I often sleep with the window open and frequently get a bit of smoke from the neighbor's stoves as well as our own. It just depends which way the wind is blowing.


----------



## Poindexter (Nov 1, 2014)

More flue is worth a try.  Are you hoping to run plants in the green house all winter?


----------



## Beer Belly (Nov 1, 2014)

can't control the wind......tell her she may have to close the window, but you will make a change with no promise of a solution


----------



## kennyp2339 (Nov 1, 2014)

That's a tough situation, do you grown year round vegetables in the green house? If you do you may want to put an extra length of pipe on the stack then go over to her house with a basket of vegetables knock on the door and say " hey I just wanted to tell you I added a length of chimney to get the smoke higher, and btw her are some fresh vegetables from the green house where the smoke was coming from."


----------



## xman23 (Nov 1, 2014)

I to don't think you can fix your proximity to your neighbors house. This must be a common issue. I guess this is what gotten some towns to ban woodstoves.


----------



## fespo (Nov 1, 2014)

Well this afternoon my buddy is coming over and we are going to try to add one section, to see if that will make the smoke go up. For some reason the smoke is just hanging low. like it won't lift into the air. We do have alot of mature trees in the yard. We have the old farm row of hedge apple, that is about 25 higher on the hill  to south of the stove. I know if this does not work, I will have to find another stove or shut down the green house, because I do not what problems. I had problems with neighbors at my old house before and i will never do that again. I will move before I live through that again.


----------



## DougA (Nov 1, 2014)

If the smoke is hanging low, that's a weather problem and adding a few feet is not going to change anything.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Nov 1, 2014)

Smoke hanging and staying put is do to warmer moist air holding it in place. Wind changes direction...constantly. Maybe she can open a window on another side of her house which is drafting differently. Not much you can do on your end though unfortunately.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Nov 1, 2014)

fespo said:


> Well this afternoon my buddy is coming over and we are going to try to add one section, to see if that will make the smoke go up. For some reason the smoke is just hanging low. like it won't lift into the air. We do have alot of mature trees in the yard. We have the old farm row of hedge apple, that is about 25 higher on the hill  to south of the stove. I know if this does not work, I will have to find another stove or shut down the green house, because I do not what problems. I had problems with neighbors at my old house before and i will never do that again. I will move before I live through that again.


You sound like a good responsible neighbor.  I hope you can work out your problem, but respecting your neighbor's right to fresh air is the right way to go.


----------



## larboc (Nov 1, 2014)

Tell her to stop wasting energy and shut her window.


----------



## DBoon (Nov 1, 2014)

I'd say the norm in the suburbs is that there is not smoke drifting towards a nearby house.  If you have this problem, I would work to be as pro-active about it as possible as others in "the suburbs" are likely to take a more kindly view towards your neighbors view of the problem than yours and this would not be in your long-term interest (whether you agree with their opinions or not).


----------



## fespo (Nov 1, 2014)

Well we added 3ft of flue and remove the cap. Wow with out that cap the smoke is shooting straight out and up. So far this afternoon and  till now no smoke or smell towards her yard. I choked it down just to make alot of smoke and check. I plan on going over there tomorrow and explain what I did and hope it helps. Thanks everyone


----------



## fespo (Nov 26, 2014)

Well "SHE BACK" .  My neighbor followed me around into my back yard and complained more about the smoke smell.  I explained what I did, she watch and saw me do it. She ask me to move it over to the other side of the green house. I tried to explain the wind factor and by moving is not going to help anything different. So after lunch today I have to move the complete set up.Shelter,hot air out flow and cold air in take, new hole in green house  Everything I cant wait to move in five years, once my youngest is out of High school and head to warmer climate


----------



## Jags (Nov 26, 2014)

Fespo - I can honestly respect your attempts to make this right.  Not everyone would do that.  To keep honor umongst our wood burning brethren we need to be conscious of how we might be affecting others. 

Nobody would stand for the neighbors oil burner venting into your bedroom window.  Smoke is no different.


----------



## mellow (Nov 26, 2014)

I would put a pellet stove in there and be done with it.


----------



## TimfromMA (Nov 26, 2014)

mellow said:


> I would put a pellet stove in there and be done with it.



Pellet stoves still produce smoke, just less of it.


----------



## blazincajun (Nov 26, 2014)

Maybe the smoke is not hot enough with all that length of stove pipe - try insulated stove pipe to keep the exhaust hot and moving.


----------



## peakbagger (Nov 26, 2014)

The installation you describe sounds closer to a OWB than an indoor wood boiler. In NH the minimum recommended clearances is 300 feet from the stack to the nearest neighboring dwelling or the stack of the unit has to be 10 feet above the maximum height of any other dwelling unit within 300 feet. My neighbor bought an older model OWB and installed in violation of state law as it was an older non EPA model. In order to make it borderline acceptable he added a 30 foot extension onto his stack (and had to support it from a pole). It is still not legal height but it improved things considerably. When he first started using it, my smoke detector would go off in my attic and most days the surrounding neighborhood smelled like he was burning trash. Depending on the prevailing wind and topography you may never be able to get it acceptable but generally getting the exhaust up above the tree canopy and above nearby structures can help.


----------



## F4jock (Nov 26, 2014)

fespo said:


> Well "SHE BACK" .  My neighbor followed me around into my back yard and complained more about the smoke smell.  I explained what I did, she watch and saw me do it. She ask me to move it over to the other side of the green house. I tried to explain the wind factor and by moving is not going to help anything different. So after lunch today I have to move the complete set up.Shelter,hot air out flow and cold air in take, new hole in green house  Everything I cant wait to move in five years, once my youngest is out of High school and head to warmer climate


I applaud your efforts but my nearest neighbor is almost half a mile away and when they burn and the wind is right I can smell it. IMNTBHO you are SOL. If you are in code grin and bear it. If not you may be in trouble if she goes further. She obviously needs a distraction. Find her a boyfriend.


----------



## fespo (Nov 26, 2014)

Well I move it, what a job. The flue is much shorter now because there is nothing to support the flue. The smoke is still blowing toward her yard but not up against her house.  Now it just a wait and see. As for code I did not get a permit for the green house and for sure not for the indoor/now outdoor wood burning furnace.   As for permits, in this town we need a permit even to fart, They want a permit and a OK from the village even to cut down trees in your yard. Ha I just had 4 hedge and one fir cut down with my buddy tree service.  I say the less they know the better.


----------



## Babaganoosh (Nov 26, 2014)

Not for nothing but it IS called a smoke dragon...lol


----------



## ddahlgren (Nov 27, 2014)

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/app/4748036602.html


----------



## F4jock (Nov 27, 2014)

fespo said:


> Well I move it, what a job. The flue is much shorter now because there is nothing to support the flue. The smoke is still blowing toward her yard but not up against her house.  Now it just a wait and see. As for code I did not get a permit for the green house and for sure not for the indoor/now outdoor wood burning furnace.   As for permits, in this down we need a permit even to fart, They want a permit and a OK from the village even to cut down trees in your yard. Ha I just had 4 hedge and one fir cut down with my buddy tree service.  I say the less they know the better.


And if your neighbor is as you describe her they're gonna know soon. Be prepared. Just sayin.


----------



## fespo (Nov 27, 2014)

ddahlgren I did have a stove in there before.It did ok but its a green house that does not hold much heat plus I made it 50% bigger this year. With the stove the temps would drop down in the 40s in the morning. Not good


----------



## ddahlgren (Nov 27, 2014)

fespo said:


> ddahlgren I did have a stove in there before.It did ok but its a green house that does not hold much heat plus I made it 50% bigger this year. With the stove the temps would drop down in the 40s in the morning. Not good


 I have the little brother to the stove I sent a link to and it makes no smoke or smell that I can tell other than a few minutes on a cold start. It has a secondary air tube so is EPA rated looks pristine and 600 a fair price plus has a big fire box and the ability to longer burns and more heat out of the same load of fuel. You might try some 3M interior window film it is cheap and easy to put up. It makes a very large difference in my 1874 house with single glazed windows.


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER (Nov 27, 2014)

Well with no permits, you have to make the neighbor happy!
Good luck!


----------



## spirilis (Nov 27, 2014)

I recall seeing a Rocket Mass Heater design built into the ground a bit for heating a greenhouse.  That's the route I would go since they burn up all the smoke once you get 'em going.
Being that it's outdoors, no permits were pulled and no inspections, I would consider that a great place to experiment with such things :D
Main issue is they're built out of masonry typically so you would want it to dry well above freezing.  Something to consider doing over the summer I guess.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Nov 28, 2014)

spirilis said:


> I recall seeing a Rocket Mass Heater design built into the ground a bit for heating a greenhouse.  That's the route I would go since they burn up all the smoke once you get 'em going.
> Being that it's outdoors, no permits were pulled and no inspections, I would consider that a great place to experiment with such things :D
> Main issue is they're built out of masonry typically so you would want it to dry well above freezing.  Something to consider doing over the summer I guess.



...or maybe when the pot still gets set up and the moonshine starts flowing


----------



## KindredSpiritzz (Nov 28, 2014)

I have noticed some mornings in my yard  the wind blows the smoke right down into the back yard and back towards the ravine, fortunately causing no issues but with a different wind direction i could see it blowing right down into my neighbors yard next to me where he happens to sell christmas trees every year. I keep waiting for that knock on my door to come one of these days. We had a previous issue over a fence this past summer so we're not on friendly terms anymore. That said, if and when his complaint comes it won't get any traction with me. I'll just smile at him, say thats a bummer and close my door in his face. You not having a permit hurts cause if she complains thats the first thing they're going to look at.


----------



## tcassavaugh (Nov 28, 2014)

.....Chicago suburb, and she sleeps with the window open......in the winter. ok, wouldn't want her heat bill. I applaud your efforts to keep the peace. not sure I would go that far either.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Nov 28, 2014)

If we wood burners don't police ourselves with regard to smoke and air pollution, I'm sure the government will be happy to do it for us.  Having good relations with your neighbors is well worth the effort, and is the right thing to do..


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER (Nov 28, 2014)

Tenn Dave said:


> If we wood burners don't police ourselves with regard to smoke and air pollution, I'm sure the government will be happy to do it for us.  Having good relations with your neighbors is well worth the effort, and is the right thing to do..


unfortunately there is no pleasing everyone! But I do agree that one should try to burn the most efficient way possible. The best management practices for OWB are a good guide, but dimensional requirements are for cookie cutter installs. common sense should prevail on site specific installs.


----------



## fespo (Nov 30, 2014)

So everything is moved over, new shelter built over furnace, new duct work in place. Yesterday (11/29/14) it was a nice day, sunny warmer maybe in the 50s. I was outside all day and her window was never opened! She was home, she was doing laundry, dryer was going all day. Go figure, nice day, window closed, furnace and stove were down for the day it was so warm. Going to be cold later today and through the week, window open?


----------



## Bob E (Nov 30, 2014)

Yeah, close your window lady. 
You better pour on the kindness though. I suspect she won't be happy even after your wood burner is gone, and without the proper permits...


----------



## F4jock (Nov 30, 2014)

Get her, anonymously, a membership to an on-line dating service so she'll have something else to occupy her time.


----------



## ddahlgren (Nov 30, 2014)

Maybe you need to see if the window is actually open. Could you set up a cheap security camera that catches her house? That way it does not look like you are spying on her.


----------



## Bob E (Nov 30, 2014)

Does she garden? Maybe you could offer her a spot in your green house to grow her own stuff.


----------



## tinman1 (Nov 30, 2014)

It sounds like she is just on a mission to see if the smoke is coming here way , & just complain about it because she can.


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER (Nov 30, 2014)

Sounds to me like she likes you and it gives her an excuse to talk with you!


----------



## Hogwildz (Nov 30, 2014)

Find some dirt on the old broad and tell her to close her window and shut her pie hole, and you won't deal the dirt on her.
She is bored, and lonely, and looking for anything to bioch about. No matter what you do, it won't be enough. And if you get rid of the stove, she will find something else to biach about.


----------



## 73blazer (Nov 30, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Find some dirt on the old broad and tell her to close her window and shut her pie hole, and you won't deal the dirt on her.
> She is bored, and lonely, and looking for anything to biach about. No matter what you do, it won't be enough. And if you get rid of the stove, she will find something else to groan about.



Now that almost made me spit my beer all over my screen.   As funny as it is, I suspect sadly,  it's probably pretty close to the truth.


----------



## F4jock (Nov 30, 2014)

*DURACELL*


----------



## woodgeek (Nov 30, 2014)

Give it more air so it leaves the stack at a higher temp.  You will lower your efficiency (probably) but the smoke might go over her roof.


----------



## NJ_Burner08002 (Nov 30, 2014)

I for one would just laugh.


----------



## rudysmallfry (Nov 30, 2014)

OP,  you are doing the right thing by trying to make this right. Some of these responses are a tad over the line. I'm really hoping you guys are making attempts at humor. If I have her age pegged right, her window is open at night for a biological reason. When the female thermostat decides to go haywire, you feel like you're about to burst into flames when under the covers at night. It's absolute torture. I also had my window cracked open on the coldest of nights to keep cool during the worst of it. I live alone too and would also be complaining if someone's smoke was coming directly into my house. We all have a right to clean air. I can't even be around a cigarette smoker without gagging since I have respiratory problems. It sounds like she's asked politely enough and you've responded as nicely as you can. Hopefully it works out for both of you.


----------



## fespo (Nov 30, 2014)

My neighbor, she is probably late 60s.  I look at it as I don't want to be a jerk, I had one those at my last house.neighbor was a drunken fool, a bunch of trash. I just have to laugh because in the 12 years we have been here window are closed 24/7 air or heat, Never any  fresh air. I was good friends with her late husband and want to be left alone .


----------



## JTRock (Nov 30, 2014)

I am fortunate to have my house set back from all the other neighbors.  And about an acre of land in my back yard. . I definitely pulled permits on my pellet and woodstove.  It's the best way to protect yourself from the town and maintain insurability.


----------



## bassJAM (Dec 1, 2014)

If she complains again, get a dog that barks all night.  Maybe then she'll shut the window to keep the noise down??


----------



## semipro (Dec 1, 2014)

fespo,
Could you use block or brick to build a masonry mass wall around the stove and operate it like a masonry heater; light a hot fire early in the day, burn hard all day, put the fire out before bedtime?
The stored heat may maintain temps in the greenhouse overnight.  I'm not sure how your stove is built but perhaps you could even put some bricks on top of it absorb the heat?
Maybe this combined with some added greenhouse insulation, maybe something you could put up at night?  If the north side is not insulated perhaps you reduce heat loss there with some foam board.
Drums of water surrounding the stove rather than masonry might be easier.You can stack those if you have the room.

Edit: Hmm., I just looked up your stove (furnace) and realized just stacking mass around it might not help much.  I was wondering if you could direct the hot air output from the furnace through a low but long wall of concrete block or some other high mass structure.  The block could be stacked in such a way that the holes align for airflow and sealed with foam or caulk if needed.  The block stack might also work well as a table for placing frost especially sensitive plants on or for starting seeds.


----------



## moey (Dec 1, 2014)

We got our neighbors a better stove. I just have to teach him to stop burning wet wood now.


----------



## ironpony (Dec 1, 2014)

your intentions are honorable.


----------



## ddahlgren (Dec 1, 2014)

The more I read this the more I get it. You have an old smoke dragon. You seem to declare the right to avoid zoning laws of any sort. You sound like it is your right to pollute the air for all around you. Do you actually expect all to think this a reasonable plan? If a chicken or pig farm was upwind of you and you had to smell that 24/7 would you say nothing? For 5 to 700 for a simple new or better used stove can make this all go away along with well seasoned wood. So just do it is my thought.


----------



## bassJAM (Dec 2, 2014)

ddahlgren said:


> The more I read this the more I get it. You have an old smoke dragon. You seem to declare the right to avoid zoning laws of any sort. You sound like it is your right to pollute the air for all around you. Do you actually expect all to think this a reasonable plan? If a chicken or pig farm was upwind of you and you had to smell that 24/7 would you say nothing? For 5 to 700 for a simple new or better used stove can make this all go away along with well seasoned wood. So just do it is my thought.



I used to know a pig farmer who had neighbors move out from the city and then complain about his farm.  There's a few bad things that come with the good of living in the country, if you can't take it, move back to the city!  Either way, I'm a big fan of personal property rights.  You should have the right to do just about anything within reason on your property.  If someone complains and you want to be a nice guy, try work it out (which the OP is doing).  But a whiny neighbor shouldn't demand that you upgrade your heating system so it smokes less.


----------



## Jags (Dec 2, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> But a whiny neighbor shouldn't demand that you upgrade your heating system so it smokes less.



If you are infringing on their property rights, I disagree.


----------



## ironpony (Dec 2, 2014)

Based on some comments, this is why the Govt. has to get involved in our lives. Hence the complaints and the Govt. involvement in wood burning.
In a couple more years the EPA will have wood burning completely shut down, so this will not be an issue.


----------



## bassJAM (Dec 2, 2014)

Jags said:


> If you are infringing on their property rights, I disagree.



And that argument has taken things so far that some HOAs demand that cars must be hidden inside a garage because cars parked on the street or in the driveway lowers property values.  I think there's a line between what is really infringing other's rights and not.  A neighbor complaining because she can smell smoke when she opens her window in the winter doesn't count.  A neighbors who's house is turned black because so much smoke hits it is another story.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 2, 2014)

Looks like this one is going downhill . . . to what would have been the Ash Can . . . as it seems to be going towards the issue of property rights.

I've always tried to take a middle ground. It doesn't matter to me what my neighbors are doing with their property as long as it doesn't affect my health and well-being . . . in the community I moved into there are some homes with junk cars out front, another guy down the road has a menagerie of animals and for some reason he now has a huge collection of concrete statues out front, neighbor's house looks like a single wide plopped on top of a double wide trailer, another neighbor has three or four boats, Amish neighbor used to raise goats across from us . . . again, hasn't affected my health or well being so it's no concern of mine.


----------



## Jags (Dec 2, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> I think there's a line between what is really infringing other's rights and not.



Infringing on the persons right to open a window in their own home without smoke infiltration (at any time) is infringing on property rights.  I don't think that is even arguable.

And FFJ is probably spot on, I see this thread starting to swirl around the drain.


----------



## ddahlgren (Dec 2, 2014)

Yes it is swirling around the drain but some things need saying. I am all for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A card carrying member of the NRA and as conservative as they come. Break into my house and you will meet Mr. Mossberg or Mr. Ruger with no regrets on my part.  I don't care what anyone does or has their choice as long as does not infringe on my rights. Everyone has the right to breath air that does not make them cough. Having a window cracked while sleeping is common with breathing problems. If you had breathing problems and trouble sleeping because of a neighbor blowing smoke at you is that life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? 5 or 600 now or face town officials and possibly tearing it all out and fines. The low cost choice is obvious sometimes it is not all about you. Moderator please flush this thread!1


----------



## Jags (Dec 2, 2014)

And with that said....Done.


----------

