# Empyre Pro 200 Gasser



## barkeatr (Mar 15, 2011)

I finally finished the replacment of my central boiler with a Profab Empyre Pro 200 Outdoor Furnace on Sunday.  After some small test runs for leaks and triple checking connections, i loaded  the small ( as compared to a small Central Boiler) firebox about 3/4 full last night.  I expected it to be empty this morning but it was still half full!  Its mild now but it still was 22 degreee F last night.   Its much steadier in maintaining consistant temperature also, where my old Central Boiler Classci was up and down up and down..

While some might see the engineering as low tech because profab uses firebrick and fans that can be purchased off the shelf, I think that is a great thing because I can repair it myself if a fan goes bad or a firebrick gets broken.  The whole secondary burn chamber is made from conventional firebrick with a few special cuts here and there.  I tell ya, when you open the small secondary burn chamber door its like a blow torch blowing out. 

I put temperature gauges on the supply and return and it turns out my line losses are pretty low, when there is no demand from the house the two gauges are two or three degrees apart and I still have six feet of soon to be insulated bare pex exposed to the elements. I know this is prolly not the best accuracy wise as the return tempature gauge housing is probably picking up heat from the boiler itself but the supply side guage is getting the same thing. 

any how, at this point,  i highly recommend the Empyre Pro Series gassers.. 

Barkeater


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## radicalRWer (Mar 15, 2011)

Barkeatr,

I am seriously considering the Empyre 200 Pro right now.  I am also considering an Econoburn system as they have been doing gasification burners, albeit indoor units, for a longer time.  I like the simplicity aspect of the 200 too.  The only thing I worry about is how long they have been doing gasifier units.  

Good luck with your unit.  I'd like to hear more about your experience and others that may have them.


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## barkeatr (Mar 15, 2011)

yes it seems that Econoburn is very established.   I ended up going with the empyre first due to the 2-3,000 lower cost and I needed a non pressurisesd system.  I believe the Econoburn is pressuriezed.  Tech support is excellant at Profab.  Good luck going woody biomass in Kalkaska, join the revolution against oil barrons!


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## firecaptain (Mar 15, 2011)

barkeatr... congrats. i know you wont be disapointed.  great furnace, and yes. its kinda low tech but in the middle of winter if something breaks, it can be easily replaced with common parts from a local hardware store. you dont have to wait for the factory to ship you a part and hope you get the right peice the first time. 
i have been burning mine for about 5 months now with no problems. great unit, simple and easy to install and operate.
my only hang up was a leaky front door gasket. i think it was mostly my fault. i pinched the gasket and it wouldnt seal. but a trip to the store and $20 later it was back in business. 
chad and aimee, i had the same hang up as you when i was looking into the empyre, but after a lot of research of both indoor and outdoor gassers i noticed the empyre was basically and indoor econoburn with an enclosure for outdoor use. look at the websites and carefully study the cutaway views of each unit. you will see they are almost identical in design. as barkeatr said, the whole secondary chamber is lined with 1 inch thick firebrick. very nice. and when its is in the gassification stage if you would open the secondary door, its quite impressive. sounds like a little jet engine and burns an impressive bright orange and blue flame. very cool to see. looks like a corkscrew of flames. 
i was apprehensive when buying mine, but i am VERY pleased with it. wouldnt change a thing.


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## radicalRWer (Mar 16, 2011)

Do you mind telling me how much you guys paid for your unit?

Dealer is @ $8795 for the Pro 200.  Last nite I talked with a dealer on an econoburn 150 indoor unit (figuring I could put it in my garage or build a lean-too off my pole barn to store wood and house the unit).  His price on that was $8900 which seems $1K high according to another dealer's web page, maybe he quoted the next size up. IDK?

Things I like about the Econoburn
1.  Closed loop pressurized system.  I should be able to tie in to my current system without the WTW heat exchanger.
2.  They have been doing gasification longer.  Many good reviews here at Hearth.
3.  Made in USA
4.  25yr boiler warranty, 5 years everything else.

Things I question about the Econoburn 150
1.  Cleaning tubes
2.  fire pot size


Things I like about the Empyre Pro 200
1.  Simplicity of the unit.
2.  larger fire box maybe just a little (23x22x31) - load more wood and bigger logs?
3.  Decently priced for an outside unit.
4.  Heard cleaning the tube is pretty easy.
5.  Support sounds good from those of you that have them.

Things I question on the Empyre Pro 200
1.  Refractory brick - is it ceramic
2.  Warranty only 10 yrs.?
3.  Open system - more prone to rusting.


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## barkeatr (Mar 17, 2011)

its probably better to compare the Empyre pro 200 to the Econoburn Outdoor furnace.  I paid 8900 for my Pro 200, and the shop down the road is selling the Econoburn for 10900.  Im guessing that the Econoburn might come out a head when comparing specs but is it worth, or can you afford, at least 1500 more.  I will point out some weaknesses of the Empyre, you do have to send a water sample every year to maintain the Warrenty.  It does smoke quite a bit while loading.  They say there is a smoke curtain and a special short circut vent, but I havent figured out how to make it work yet.  Im not sure how the Econoburn stacks up in this department, but I do know that absoultey everyone has told me that thier empyres and thier central boilers dont smoke in thier face ( I had a Central Boiler before the Empyre) but I never had such luck.  They always put a lot of smoke in your face.  Dont get me wrong, I like my Empyre and the downsides (if the econoburn doesnt ahve the same downsides) are not bad enough to outwiegh the cost difference, to me.  Empyres are made in Canada, and from what I have seen as far as anything with energy or building science, the Canadien products are very well designed. 

Also, i had a non pressurized system on my central boiler, ran it for seven years with no problems, and wanted to stay with a Non pressuriezed boiler.  I just did not want to add the 300 bucks or more for a pressure tank and water injection thingy...nor did i want to do the work.  Sure some folks will say it cost less than that but I know everytime i go to the plumbing store for a couple parts i drop serious bucks. You do get long burns out of small amounts of wood with the Empyre. Im burning close to two thirds less wood compared to by CB OWB, dead on truth.   I expect the Econoburn can do the same. 

I do like the fan mounted on the back of the Empyre vs the front of the Econoburn.


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## bpirger (Mar 17, 2011)

I looked at the Econoburn...outside models.  Tube cleaning I believe is a bit diffcult...have to remove the outer skins...though they do have the shaker handle.  My concern was what happens when the refractory breaks or needs to be replaced, i.e. when the formed nozzles start to break apart?  Looks like it is cast in place to me...dealer never did answer me.  I think there has also been some issues with the econoburn fan controller board....some threads here on that topic.

If you are looking at adding storage....add up all the costs and make a good estimate.  I ended up with the Garn....which is not cheap and have well over 20K in the whole system (Garn, HX, copper, buried microflex, etc.)  No complaints though...one fire a day (two loads of wood) to heat the house plus all the DHW.

Personally, I wouldn't look at the efficiency numbers at all....I'd listen to users here.


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## barkeatr (Mar 17, 2011)

Empyre Pros access to pipe cleaning is easy, this is very important to me as my first year wood supply is on the border as far as moisture content.  I need to get those flues/turbulators often to make sure they remain creasote free. 
I asked the econoburn tech support about storage and they said it was not needed the way the Empyre was designed, meaning the way it will take a full load and distribute the heat over a healthy amount of time.  Im sure everyone will say this is idle time and should be avoided but...   I will say i put six or seven 4-6 diameter logs x 24" long in my burner at nine pm and it heated my whole house, supplied hot water for several showers, and its still burning strong at almost seven AM this morning.  With this load amount My old CB would have been out of fuel at 2AM! 

RadicalWRr asked if the Empyre has ceramic fire brick.  I dont think they are.  They seem to be regular firebrick except for the firebick around the openings into the secondary burn chamber, visually and according to the manufacturer, they are a more dense brick.


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## altheating (Mar 17, 2011)

Barkeatr
Glad to hear that the Empyre is working well.  Sure glad to see that you are burning less wood even though the weather is warming up a bit.  Hmmm,  If you call 22 degrees warming up a bit!  Well you are in UPSTATE New York.


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## radicalRWer (Mar 17, 2011)

@altheating

What is your pitch seeing how you sell both of what I am currently considering?  I already have an existing boiler system Weil McClain propane boiler.


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## altheating (Mar 17, 2011)

My philosophy is to offer the products for what they are and let the potential customer make up his or her mind based on facts given them and the amount of money they can afford to spend. I have often said you can lie to people about marginal products or tell people truth the first time about quality products and the next time you speak to them the truth will still be the truth! I can now say that I have fantastic products and terrific factory support from people who actually know about the products they manufacture. 
One a side note, (and the truth) I have been advised that there will be a price increase on all Econoburn boilers starting April 15th.


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## Deere10 (Mar 19, 2011)

barkeatr  where abouts in upstate NY are you located?  I currently have a Greenwood 100, Looking at and getting info on newer boilers. If possible I would like to see your set up. Thanks


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## barkeatr (Mar 19, 2011)

sURE THING i AM NOT FAR from Malone.  I will PM you.


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## hoogie (Mar 25, 2011)

I've been running the pro200 for 2 years now...great unit it. Love to hear others that are starting to buy them also, when i got mine they had just come out. As for price i bought my unit for 8000 and ended up getting the tax credit for 1500 so in the end i feel i came out alright. In the last 2 seasons i've saved 3100 in heating bills. I've got pics posted in other posts of the install and how it's set up...Empyer great unit and simple as all get out....Hoogie


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## barkeatr (Mar 26, 2011)

HOAGIE, 

i have a empyre 200 question.  WHere i knocked out the knock outs for the water and electrical..you know the place in the unit.  Should i reinsulated that hole or is that where it gets air for the fan?  I assume i can block it up since the back panel of the door is insulated and it must draw cold air in from another place. 

thanks, barkeater


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## hoogie (Mar 28, 2011)

barkeatr said:
			
		

> HOAGIE,
> 
> i have a empyre 200 question.  WHere i knocked out the knock outs for the water and electrical..you know the place in the unit.  Should i reinsulated that hole or is that where it gets air for the fan?  I assume i can block it up since the back panel of the door is insulated and it must draw cold air in from another place.
> 
> thanks, barkeater




Barkeater, I left all my openings alone, where the tile comes in from the bottom of the unit is open to the elements. I think thats where your talking about. Like you said if nothing else fresh air comes in from there for the fan. I've never had snow or water come through those knockouts. hope this helps...Hoogie


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## leeallen1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Glad to hear the good news about the profab 200. Does anyone have any experience with the New Profab 400 outdoor gasser.


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