# Insert purchase this week. OK to go with new model?



## freddypd (Sep 3, 2012)

I want to make my purchase this week. I want a flush insert. I looked at Vermont Castings, Fireplace xtrodinair and enerzone.

I want to go with Fireplace xtrodinair Large Hybrid. It is a new model this year. I don't like buying cars on a new model year should I be afraid of a new model insert? It is gonna run me around 5k for the unit, install and liner.

 Large Hybrid Fireplace xtrodinaire

I like its large box and viewing area. Any thoughts?

I had worked out a deal with a local installer and got this message from him. I will not work with this installer but should I be leery of this product? I do know Travis Industries has been around for a while:

"Sorry for the delay, but unfortunately we have decided not to carry fpx or
lopi products we believe the manufacturer is not priced properly and theyhave issues with honoring warranty. If there is another product we canassist you with we would love to do so. Let us knowJerome"

This was the follow up email:

"We are working with a great company called enerzone they offer a new unit
called the destination 2.3,Take a look and tell me what you think. It is much less expensive and abetter performer, I have pre sold a number of them as they are, do out midSeptember.jerome"


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## Grisu (Sep 3, 2012)

I cannot speak about the customer service of the companies you mentioned but if you like flush inserts here are two others you may want to consider:
Osburn Matrix: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=583
Regency Alterra: http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/CI1250.aspx (although it is a smaller unit) 

The Osburn has the same firebox as the Osburn 2000 which has been around for a while. Generally, I have not seen much complaints here about new models regardless of the company. Thus, I think buying a just released insert is not much more risky than going for a proven one. Since most stoves already push the limits of efficiency enhancements I have the feeling new models are more about looks than a revolutionary new technique. But we have some insiders here who can shed more light on that.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 3, 2012)

Grisu said:


> I cannot speak about the customer service of the companies you mentioned but if you like flush inserts here are two others you may want to consider:
> Osburn Matrix: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/product.aspx?CategoId=7&Id=583
> Regency Alterra: http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/CI1250.aspx (although it is a smaller unit)
> 
> The Osburn has the same firebox as the Osburn 2000 which has been around for a while. Generally, I have not seen much complaints here about new models regardless of the company. Thus, I think buying a just released insert is not much more risky than going for a proven one. Since most stoves already push the limits of efficiency enhancements I have the feeling new models are more about looks than a revolutionary new technique. But we have some insiders here who can shed more light on that.


 

Both of those are much smaller than the unit the OP is looking at. The unit the OP is looking is 3 cu ft.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 3, 2012)

freddypd said:


> I want to make my purchase this week. I want a flush insert. I looked at Vermont Castings, Fireplace xtrodinair and enerzone.
> 
> I want to go with Fireplace xtrodinair Large Hybrid. It is a new model this year. I don't like buying cars on a new model year should I be afraid of a new model insert? It is gonna run me around 5k for the unit, install and liner.
> 
> ...


 
To me, it sounds like the dealer had a falling out with the manufacturer. Travis Industries, which makes Fireplace Xtrodinaire has a pretty good reputation for making a quality product. I have not used any of their stoves, but the people on this forum rarely have a bad thing to say about their products or their price points.

The only hiccup seems to be ordering parts, which plagues many stove manufacturers. So, I wouldn't call it a big issue from what I have read here.

In regards to this specific stove, it is new so no one knows what to expect. The hybrid stoves seem to work like non-cat stoves, meaning you don't get the super long and low burns like a normal cat stove. The cat seems to work as a secondary cleanup to the burn tubes which provides a cleaner burn. Just not necessarily a longer burn.

Would I buy this stove if I were you? That's hard to say. I guess I would look at finding out if this was a new, from the ground up, stove. Or if it was based on an existing stove with modifications to make it a hybrid. My opinion at this point is that I would go with a straight cat stove over a hybrid stove to give me the long and low burns. But, that doesn't mean my opinion is correct.


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## Dix (Sep 3, 2012)

Why a flush insert???

I ask, because considering potential power outages here on LI in the winter, one that would convect heat out of the front would be more useful.

'Course if clearances are an issue, then I under stand.

PS... got your wood supply ready???????

And if I haven't said it before, welcome to the forums !


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## hotjava66 (Sep 3, 2012)

freddypd said:


> I want to make my purchase this week. I want a flush insert. I looked at Vermont Castings, Fireplace xtrodinair and enerzone.
> 
> I want to go with Fireplace xtrodinair Large Hybrid. It is a new model this year. I don't like buying cars on a new model year should I be afraid of a new model insert? It is gonna run me around 5k for the unit, install and liner.
> 
> ...


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## hotjava66 (Sep 3, 2012)

I am about to pull the trigger on the same insert, probably in the next week or two.  My local dealer said they have had very good luck with Travis Industries products, and have carried them for a long time.  Just came across the Osburn Matrix as well, looks like a nice unit but too small for my large fireplace opening and glass is much smaller then the FPX/Avalon unit.  The price you were quoted seems a bit high, although the specifics of your install may be the cause.  I am getting the unit, liner, and custom backer for 3500 ish and installing myself.


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## freddypd (Sep 4, 2012)

I wanted a flush insert so that my wife would be happy with the look. I dont think either one of us wanted one that sticks out. My fireplace opening is also off the floor about 5" so I think flush would look nicer.

The dealer that I probably will go with is quoting me 4900. The unit goes for 3389, smooth wall liner was about 700, install was 750, faceplate was 300?, and surround 179?, total was about 5300? cash price was 4900. Another FPX dealer was around the same price.

I dont have any wood yet. I was thinking of buying the first year and scrounging around for the future.

Can you point me towards wood shed plans? I want to build a simple structure. Maybe wood palletes on the floor and a lean-to type structure on top.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 4, 2012)

freddypd said:


> I dont have any wood yet. I was thinking of buying the first year and scrounging around for the future.


This will be a problem. You need to buy the wood now. As in today. You are already in September and whatever wood you purchase will not be dry. 99.9% of the wood dealers do not supply dry wood no matter what they claim. With a 3 cu ft stove you need to plan on burning at least 4 cord of wood.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't want to be too critical, but I looked through that entire manual and found no interior dimensions, other than the fact that the bottom is lined by 9" long firebricks.  Even though the literature says it has a 3 ft2 firebox, I don't think 9" is too deep.  On the other hand, it has a catalytic converter, and some kind of ignition system, which I'm not familiar with.  Another plus is that it does have replaceable firebrick.

PS:  My wife likes the flush look of the one that I have in my signature.  It only has a 2.3 ft2 firebox, but it fits splits front/back, with a firebox length that's about the same as the width (no angles, ie, lost space), and has a decorative cast iron front.  No cat. though.


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## Grisu (Sep 4, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Both of those are much smaller than the unit the OP is looking at. The unit the OP is looking is 3 cu ft.


 
You are right. I should have checked the FXP unit first. I was going with the enerzone which I knew was a medium sized insert. One question to the OP would be how much of an area he actually wants to heat with it and whether he believes the heat will travel through his home. Maybe he needs such a big unit but maybe it is not really necessary. 

I also agree that the OP needs to get the wood NOW and most likely he will have a hard time finding any seasoned.

To the OP: When looking for a firewood dealer please ask when the wood has been split and stacked; it should be at least for a year. Or go for kiln-dried wood but that will be expensive. When the wood gets delivered split a few pieces and take a measurement with a moisture meter along the fresh surface. It should be at least 25% (better 20%) or below to be considered seasoned. Other options are bio-bricks or pallets (which are usually free but a chore to cut up). Maybe ask for a discount when taking another 2 to 3 cords of green wood, stack that up and let it dry for the next winter.


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## freddypd (Sep 4, 2012)

I have a ranch home. Maybe 2000 sq. ft.? It is a pretty open living area that I want to heat. I would love to get some heat down in the bedrooms but am not expecting much. It is a pretty narrow hallway going down there.

My original postings can be seen here with a rough schematic:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/questions-and-thoughts-before-first-insert-purchase.79911


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## Epicureaninc (Aug 30, 2013)

Ho
Are you satisfied with your hybrid? I plan on buying  that unit in a week or so? Please advise?


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## freddypd (Sep 23, 2013)

Sorry. I haven't signed on in quite a while. I only have 1 season so far. I really like the unit. I don't like having to hear the fan all the time, but fans are required on all inserts. Next house will have a free standing wood stove! Good luck.


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## Epicureaninc (Sep 23, 2013)

freddypd said:


> Sorry. I haven't signed on in quite a while. I only have 1 season so far. I really like the unit. I don't like having to hear the fan all the time, but fans are required on all inserts. Next house will have a free standing wood stove! Good luck.


Hi Freddie

I purchased the Avalon large flush hybrid with Cypress face, green start (remote install in basement)and installed a digital cumbustor thermometer, 2 ply smooth interior full reline,fabricated a  back stop plate, ansul insulation. I completed the instal on Sat. Two fires so far. I am new to burning in an insert. But have a 20 ton splitter and unlimited acess to oak and beech. I am in total awe of this insert. For my apicarion it is perfect


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## jeffesonm (Sep 23, 2013)

freddypd said:


> Sorry. I haven't signed on in quite a while. I only have 1 season so far. I really like the unit. I don't like having to hear the fan all the time, but fans are required on all inserts. Next house will have a free standing wood stove! Good luck.


How has it done heating your home?


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## Dave A. (Sep 23, 2013)

freddypd said:


> fans are required on all inserts



Not completely true.  Several of the Travis inserts are sold to be used as either stove or insert, don't include a fan/blower or a surround, and neither are necessary (according to the mfr, anyway).  Actually many inserts without a surround (or with a custom ventilated surround which doesn't trap heat behind it) behave a lot more like freestanding stoves (from what's been said on this site).

The surround for inserts seems to be a throwback to the days of slammer installs where you wanted to isolate the exhaust from the living space.  Inserts with full liners and block off plates seem to only use the surround for appearance and the surround can diminish functionality -- i.e. maximizing heat output. (That's my opinion anyway).

I would make an exception in general for the flush mount inserts, almost all of which come with blowers and probably need them since removing the surround seems to take away from the whole purpose of getting them in terms of the look of a flush front to the fireplace.


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## weatherguy (Sep 23, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Not completely true.  Several of the Travis inserts are sold to be used as either stove or insert, don't include a fan/blower or a surround, and neither are necessary (according to the mfr, anyway).  Actually many inserts without a surround (or with a custom ventilated surround which doesn't trap heat behind it) behave a lot more like freestanding stoves (from what's been said on this site).
> 
> The surround for inserts seems to be a throwback to the days of slammer installs where you wanted to isolate the exhaust from the living space.  *Inserts with full liners and block off plates seem to only use the surround for appearance and the surround can diminish functionality -- i.e. maximizing heat output. (That's my opinion anyway*).
> 
> I would make an exception in general for the flush mount inserts, almost all of which come with blowers and probably need them since removing the surround seems to take away from the whole purpose of getting them in terms of the look of a flush front to the fireplace.


 
I'll let you know, I'm going to burn mine this year without the surround to see if I can get more heat, I have a block off plate with roxul stuffed up the flue, if it does better I'll either go with a freestander or try and pretty my insert up without the surround.


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## Dave A. (Sep 24, 2013)

Maybe you need something larger (or a second auxiliary stove for when it gets real cold) or perhaps set the BK at a higher thermostat setting (and compromise on the burn time -- first time I read about the Princess the person was talking about loading 3 times a day. 8 hour burns with uniform heat output, I thought that sounded fantastic).  Good luck.


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## teutonicking (Sep 24, 2013)

freddypd said:


> I want to make my purchase this week. I want a flush insert. I looked at Vermont Castings, Fireplace xtrodinair and enerzone.
> 
> I want to go with Fireplace xtrodinair Large Hybrid. It is a new model this year. I don't like buying cars on a new model year should I be afraid of a new model insert? It is gonna run me around 5k for the unit, install and liner.
> 
> ...


 
How about a Jotul Rockland?

http://jotul.com/us/products/fireplace-inserts/jotul-c-550-rockland-cb


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## weatherguy (Sep 24, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Maybe you need something larger (or a second auxiliary stove for when it gets real cold) or perhaps set the BK at a higher thermostat setting (and compromise on the burn time -- first time I read about the Princess the person was talking about loading 3 times a day. 8 hour burns with uniform heat output, I thought that sounded fantastic).  Good luck.


 That's how I heat with my Princess in the middle of winter, more like a 10 hour burn and two  7 hour burns since I load my overnight load an hour before bed and turn it up in the morning for another hour or two. What I really needed was the King but don't have anywhere to install it.


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## Ed Williams (Sep 25, 2013)

BrowningBAR said:


> To me, it sounds like the dealer had a falling out with the manufacturer. Travis Industries, which makes Fireplace Xtrodinaire has a pretty good reputation for making a quality product. I have not used any of their stoves, but the people on this forum rarely have a bad thing to say about their products or their price points.
> 
> The only hiccup seems to be ordering parts, which plagues many stove manufacturers. So, I wouldn't call it a big issue from what I have read here.
> 
> ...


We have been servicing and installing Travis Industries stoves for about 30 years, and they are pretty much our favorites for several reasons: excellent parts availability and support, quality engineering and construction, easily serviced, financially stable (not having been repeatedly sold over the years, unlike most other stove companies). The Fireplace Xtrordinaire is very cool, as it uses outside air to pressurize the house with warm air, allowing you to barely crack a window and allow heat to flow to any area in the house. One caveat, they do use a catalyst, which needs replaced periodically. Overall though, a very nice unit.


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