# Maple Tree in distress? Can anyone tell me whats going on here



## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

Hi all,

In my front yard, I have 2 matching gorgeous very large, mature maple trees with deep purple leaves (they don't change colors). 

One has started to show some signs of distress that concern me. Specifically - there is a section by the base of the tree that appears to be de-barked and like bark is peeling off of it. There also appears to be a section where a deer is rubbing it's antlers - but it's really low to the ground. Lastly, there are roots that have developed an orangish top layer instead of their usual gnarled/brown appearance. 

Here's some pics:



























If anyone can help guide me and/or make recommendations, I'd really appreciate it. This tree, and it's family member 100 feet away, beautifully frame and set off our house. Losing them would be a real blow to the beauty of the landscape.

Thanks,

Joe


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

A few notes: in the 4th pic down at the very bottom you can see some roots that have an orangish tint instead of bark like appearance.

In the 3rd pic down you can notice obviously the tree coming away from itself somewhat, but note that above the de-barked area there is bark that is currently detached from the tree itself. It's still hanging there and looks fine, but up close i can slip a pinky under it.

I've seen no sign of ants or anything obvious eating this tree. I do see some light sawdust-like substance down on the ground in the mulch in one or two spots. But we did just have to cut a large branch off, so that means nothing


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## billb3 (Aug 17, 2011)

that tree was wahcked by the lawn mower when it was younger ?
Looks like mower deck damage.
The orange looks like  rapid growth crack healing. 


I've seen white oaks and maples slough off old bark in patches.
I don't think it's anything to worry about.

I'd worry about carpenter ants in that old exposed heartwood, though.
( a problem here)

Just had another oak fall last week due to  ant damage.


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

Had plenty of carpenter ants around my house, but haven't seen them on the maple yet. 

The splintering of the wood is new and I've got 6' of mulch all around this tree now - no reason to get near it. Otherwise I'd agree with you....


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## smokinj (Aug 17, 2011)

Root bound...Has no where to go. See it a lot in small city lots.


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 17, 2011)

Hard to tell how deep that mulch is, but it shouldn't touch the bark much if at all.  That invites mold/rot/insects.  I dunno that it's the problem, but it's something to watch for.


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

The mulch is maybe 1/2" deep where it touches the roots. I've tried to keep it well away from the tops of the roots, but it is touching the sides. It's a light sprinkling honestly.

Smokinjay - There are no other trees within 25 feet of the trunk, there is a driveway on one side, and then there is lots and lots of land and grass. Could it truly be rootbound with this much space?


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## billb3 (Aug 17, 2011)

younger and old = 20 years ago likely more

grass looks pretty good for being under an old maple
you have to water and fertilize a lot to keep it from getting thin ?
Lower branches cut off fairly high ?


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## golfandwoodnut (Aug 17, 2011)

How do the leaves look?  If they are healthy I would not worry about it.  Maples have nasty roots,  I have some huge ones in a West Virgina house we rent and I dug up the basement once to build a bathroom and the roots made it all the way to there, about 50 feet away.  Maples tend to have roots on the surface where as Oaks go straight down.  that is why I prefer Oaks to Maples in the yard.


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't water or fertilize any of the grass at all. We had gotten plenty of rain recently, but that grass tends to just do well. I think just enough sun while shaded during the heat of the day.

There are ~3 significant branches coming out about 5-6' off the ground. ~2 more at that height (or up at 7-8') were removed in the last 2 years as being too low over the driveway.


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## smokinj (Aug 17, 2011)

joefrompa said:
			
		

> The mulch is maybe 1/2" deep where it touches the roots. I've tried to keep it well away from the tops of the roots, but it is touching the sides. It's a light sprinkling honestly.
> 
> Smokinjay - There are no other trees within 25 feet of the trunk, there is a driveway on one side, and then there is lots and lots of land and grass. Could it truly be rootbound with this much space?



1. very compacted soil 2. very dry condition for a few years. 3. no where for the roots to go. Can be any combo of the three. 


Fertilize it 6 to 12 inch's beyond the drip line with 2 or 3 inch's of water or combo rain. Aeration very heavy under there as well. (This is what done in my neck of the woods)


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

Leaves look great. Not dropping any. Match it's partners 100 feet away. Just very worried about the tree dying. It's an awesome tree I'd like to swing my kids on one day (and have them climb it too). And I don't have kids yet


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## Backwoods Savage (Aug 17, 2011)

Joe, to keep the ants out of the tree you might consider putting some Tree Kote on it. That will seal it up so nothing goes through there.


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## billb3 (Aug 17, 2011)

Were a bunch of these maples planted  on the street at the same time ? 
(Town gave away norway maples here in the 50ies to line the streets and front yards)

If so, going for a walk would probably find they all look pretty much the same with the same damages and growing pains.



Lots of maples along streets here  and the worst damage/losses seems to come from hurricanes and northeasters.

Seem to suffer a lot of abuse and keep  hanging on.


Mulch looks good to me.
You just don't want to pile it up against the trunk 


I'd worry about lots of dead branches.


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

Nope, my neighborhood is pines and pin oaks. (Neighborhood next to mine is literally called Pin Oak Farms)

In fact, my two maples are the ONLY 2 maples of this type. I've got lots of tall and slender silver maples in neighbors yards, but this maple has deep purple leaves all the time. I've never seen it anywhere else - in fact, i don't even know what type of maple it is...


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 17, 2011)

Your Norway Maple has a reputation for roots near the surface, so a bit of damage to them shouldn't end it's life.  What you may be encountering, is the tree just plain declining due to age.  That is a pretty thick trunk so it is probably not a young tree.  Norway Maples are not climax trees so they really don't live a long time relative to something like a sugar maple, hemlock, or a beech tree.  I see you are in PA so your climax trees would most likely be oak and chestnut if it still grew like it used to.  

Matt


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 17, 2011)

It could be rootbound if there is soil compaction around it.  The driveway would obviouslu be compacted, but if you have had vehicles driving over the soil on other sides of it, you may have stopped the roots from growing there.  

Matt


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## joefrompa (Aug 17, 2011)

Huh, Norway Maple it is.

No reason for soil compaction around it. No driving around it, no reason to drive around it, nothing underground there. The tree is probably 25-30 years old. The house is only 35 years old, and since I don't see norway maples elsewhere in my neighborhood I'm guessing it was planted afterwards.


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## rdust (Aug 17, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Root bound...Has no where to go. See it a lot in small city lots.



x2, one of my buddies just had a company come out and aerate? the soil around one of his maples since the roots were growing above ground like the ones pictured above.


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## dannynelson77 (Aug 17, 2011)

You have a Crimson King Norway Maple.....


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## dannynelson77 (Aug 17, 2011)

How big is the diameter?  FYI that I cut down a Norway Maple that had about a 30 in diameter and it was about 60 to 70 years old.....


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## woodsmaster (Aug 17, 2011)

I wouldn't worry as much about the roots as I would the hollow spot thats forming.


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## joefrompa (Aug 18, 2011)

Hollow spot? 

I'll measure the circumference,, but I'm guessing these are ~36" in diameter.

So far I'm hearing - tree is most likely healthy, especially if it's leaves look good. Some soil aeration/fertilizer around the edges of the drip line and such might be good for it.


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## andybaker (Aug 18, 2011)

Something to look for in Maple's is the root that grows around the base of the tree and can choke the thing to death.  We had one years ago.  Had to dig a hole down and cut that root so the tree would live.  Talk to an Arborist and they should be able to tell you if it's a possibility.


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## woodsmaster (Aug 18, 2011)

joefrompa said:
			
		

> Hollow spot?
> 
> I'll measure the circumference,, but I'm guessing these are ~36" in diameter.
> 
> So far I'm hearing - tree is most likely healthy, especially if it's leaves look good. Some soil aeration/fertilizer around the edges of the drip line and such might be good for it.



The indentation at the bottom looks like the beggining of a hollow spot to me. how far will a screw driver go in that hole ? Tress can live a long time being hollow but I wouldn't want one near a house. I agree if you want to save the tree have a pro come out and take a look.


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## joefrompa (Aug 18, 2011)

Oh, an actual hollow spot forming into the tree. I'll check that out. The vast majority of the tree poses no danger to the house, even it fell straight toward it. I might lose some pieces of vinyl siding, but even that would be a stretch (literally).

That being said - I'm a tad confused. No one has stated anything that distinctly concerns them - i.e. "oh that looks bad". All I've heard is "well this is something to look for". Is this tree in distress based upon what you can see in the pics? If so, what is the sign of distress - discolorating, de-barking, what? Because I'll keep track of that.

I'm getting recommendations to bring an arborist out to "save the tree" and yet on the flip side I'm hearing "well, could be a hollow spot there - but some trees live a long time with a hollow spot. Some maples have roots that wrap around them. Could be root-bound." - but all of those are ambiguous statements compared to "...If you want to save the tree have a pro come out" as in - my tree is on deaths bed.

I am extremely grateful for the advice gents - I'm just looking for some clarity on some statements.


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## dannynelson77 (Aug 18, 2011)

If that tree is 36 diameter it is MUCH older than you think it is.  Which makes that hollow spot issue more of one considering the age of the tree.  But if its fully leafed that is a great sign.  But yes just have a pro look at it and report back.


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## joefrompa (Aug 18, 2011)

Yeah, i talked it through with my wife. We think it's far older than I originally realized and the development was built around them. My property line on one side hits a carriage-way, which dates back quite some ways. Horses still have right-of-way there 

Anyway, the carriage way winds around and this maple is just far enough off of it that I think it came from back when the carriage way was actually used still. Elsewhere, there were old and very mature pines planted in rows lining the carriageway.

I thought this development was cleared and then some things were planted, but looking around I realized we're filled with 70-80' pin oaks, 60-70' elms, 70-80 silver maples, etc.

Looks like back in the early 70s this plot of land (probably 150-200 acres) was mapped out with alot of the good trees left on the properties. I'm not used to seeing that in developments, so my mind naturally thought otherwise.

I'll try to measure the hollow.


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## billb3 (Aug 18, 2011)

I have a crimson maple  in the back yard. Planted about 1980.
It's about 1/2 the size of yours.

Has root showing just like yours.

Not trying to grow lawn there and having mulch is good because you won't be scalping the roots.
Nor  possibly bending lawn mower blades.



Looks pretty healthy to me, but I'd be looking at the leaves and branches not the trunk and the tiny bit of roots showing.

You've got some bare wood showing at the base. 
Bare wood can be prone to insect damage.
and rot 

Not a lot you can do about it. I've seen people carve out the rot and fill with concrete.
Might help keep the moisture out and slow down the decay.
It's more of a structural problem though. A future one. Maybe.
I've cut down maples that had dead spots like that and the wood was hard as a rock and sound.
I've also had them rotten and the wood was like dirt inside.


I've got a tree  with no heartwood.
Rotted right out  at least 15 feet up.
It's got a lot of other trees around it, so it is a bit protected from the wind.
Been that way since I was a little kid. Hasn't grown much, but it hasn't gone anywhere either.


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