# Boiler "Upgrade" to Jetstream



## graham7226 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi I've been reading these forums for a few years, but this is the first time I've posted. I'm "Upgrading" From an old conventional boiler to a new-to-me Jetstream. The Jetstream needs some work and is in the shop now getting overhauled but I need to start figuring out how to install it and was hoping some folks here would be so kind as to lend their experience.

Current setup: Boiler is in the shop, and the water is pumped through 240' of five wrap insulated 1" PEX (Yes, I know that's a long way for 1" PEX, but my house only looses 30,000BTU's hour) to a 60 gallon electric water heater then a variable speed pump injects it into the floor loop.







The Plan: Boiler stays in shop, Piped in 1.5" Black iron to storage. The electric water heater gets removed, and the variable speed injects straight out of the 1" underground PEX loop from the shop.




The big questions I have are:
How much storage? I can get a 500 gallon propane tank fro around $400, and a 1000 gallon for around $600. But space is at a premium and other than burying the 1000 gallon tank outside I'm not sure where I'd put it. Is 500 Gallons enough? As I understand it the Jetstream is rated for 120,000BTU's hour?

Do I need another pump between the boiler and the storage or will it thermosyphon by itself with 1.5" pipe?


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## woodsmaster (Mar 6, 2015)

You will need another pump. 500 gallon should work with that low heat demand, just have to be careful not to overload the boiler. Good choice on boiler, not so good on the underground line. i'm sure there will be significant heat loss to the ground. If the underground isn't in place yet I'd recommend having an insulation contractor spraying foam around it. Depending on amount of heat loss to the ground the 500 gallon storage may not last as long as you desire. 
 Edit : 1 " is small line to run at that distance. Should work with your low heat demand but will probably need a good size pump.


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## kuribo (Mar 6, 2015)

I would second the opinion on the five wrap lines. That stuff should be illegal....


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## graham7226 (Mar 6, 2015)

The Underground lines have been in for a couple years now, running with the old Titan boiler. Knowing what I do now I would have opted for something larger than 1" for that 240ft (that's only one way, so I guess that's closer to pumping 500ft). Oddly though I don't really notice any amount heat loss in the lines from the boiler to the house, that may be because the pump is large (Grundfos 43-75 it wasn't sized for the application I just happened to have a couple of them lying around) or maybe because the line isn't so much as buried as strung through a hill between the two buildings, as such if water ever penetrated the tile it would pretty much have to end up in my house.


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## slowzuki (Mar 6, 2015)

How do you know what the heat loss is going to the house?  Measure temp at boiler supply and temp at house supply?

The Jetstream can thermosiphon with big pipe, minimal fittings and elevated storage but you will have trouble getting the last big of the charge, boiler will boil before tank is fully charged.  A circulator is a good idea for this reason.

For storage, the infloor means you can pull your storage down much lower than most.  I think most Jetstreams are paired with 800-1200 gallons of storage.  Could you cut the 1000 gallon in 1/2 and stand the two halves on end?  Tri-county in Moncton has good prices on used propane tanks too.

I'd love to see pics of that old boiler cut open if you have them.  I'm glad to hear someone do something with it rather than have it sit in my shop.




graham7226 said:


> The Underground lines have been in for a couple years now, running with the old Titan boiler. Knowing what I do now I would have opted for something larger than 1" for that 240ft (that's only one way, so I guess that's closer to pumping 500ft). Oddly though I don't really notice any amount heat loss in the lines from the boiler to the house, that may be because the pump is large (Grundfos 43-75 it wasn't sized for the application I just happened to have a couple of them lying around) or maybe because the line isn't so much as buried as strung through a hill between the two buildings, as such if water ever penetrated the tile it would pretty much have to end up in my house.


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## ewdudley (Mar 6, 2015)

woodsmaster said:


> 1 " is small line to run at that distance. Should work with your low heat demand but will probably need a good size pump.


But the beauty of in-floor radiant is high system deltaT.  Should be able to get a deltaT of 50 degF easily.  2 gpm times 50 degF deltaT times 500 is 50,000 btu / hour.  2 gpm through 500 ft of 1" nominal PEX is less than 4.5 feet of head, which any small pump can handle.

I would recommend leaving the 60 gal tank in place and use an aquastat near the bottom of the tank to activate a pump that replenishes the 60 gal tank from storage.  When aquastat falls below (for instance) 110 degF turn pump on, when aquastat rises above (for instance) 115 degF turn the pump off.  This will ensure that the storage tank doesn't get mixed down to a lower temperature, which ensures that system deltaT stays high.

Floor loops draw from tank same as ever.


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## graham7226 (Mar 6, 2015)

slowzuki said:


> How do you know what the heat loss is going to the house?  Measure temp at boiler supply and temp at house supply?
> 
> The Jetstream can thermosiphon with big pipe, minimal fittings and elevated storage but you will have trouble getting the last big of the charge, boiler will boil before tank is fully charged.  A circulator is a good idea for this reason.
> 
> ...



There are well/thermostats at both ends of the underground pex, one in the house and one on the boiler. Although they are far from precision instruments there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between them when the pump is running.

Tri-province is where I priced the tanks, I'd like to have the 1000 gal one but like I said space is tight and fitting a 15' x 48" tank in the shop would be hard. That's a good idea cutting it in half, but I don't think I trust my welding skills enough for that. I might just break down and buy two 500's they're a little more manageable at 9'x30".

I didn't actually cut the side off, just a 8" x 10" or so hole in the side, big enough for a vacuum, and to reach my arm in. You can see from the picture that the mice really made themselves at home in there. That's all cleaned up and the hole patched the problem I'm having now with it is that between the lack of cross ties, and a couple of the heat exchanger tubes being rotted out, the tank keeps failing my pressure test. I attached an airline to the boiler and filled it to 30PSI. Seems like every time I get one air leak fixed another pops up.I added two cross ties, replaced one of the tubes, and was started on the next when the oxygen on the torch ran out.


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## maple1 (Mar 6, 2015)

I got my tanks at Tri-Province also. I'm pretty sure the 500's are 36" x 9-1/2'. My 330's are 30" x 9'.


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## maple1 (Mar 6, 2015)

BTW, there are threads on here by Hobbyheater about his Jetstream overhaul(s).


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## graham7226 (Mar 6, 2015)

ewdudley said:


> But the beauty of in-floor radiant is high system deltaT.  Should be able to get a deltaT of 50 degF easily.  2 gpm times 50 degF deltaT times 500 is 50,000 btu / hour.  2 gpm through 500 ft of 1" nominal PEX is less than 4.5 feet of head, which any small pump can handle.
> 
> I would recommend leaving the 60 gal tank in place and use an aquastat near the bottom of the tank to activate a pump that replenishes the 60 gal tank from storage.  When aquastat falls below (for instance) 110 degF turn pump on, when aquastat rises above (for instance) 115 degF turn the pump off.  This will ensure that the storage tank doesn't get mixed down to a lower temperature, which ensures that system deltaT stays high.
> 
> Floor loops draw from tank same as ever.



2 gpm? That sounds manageable. I really don't know much about hydronics, as an Electrician the formulas I learned in school don't do me much good here. I just take a more-or-less educated guess, and when in doubt go bigger. I do know that the pump I have seems to work with that line though, as I am able to bring the temperature up in the water tank even when the floor is calling for heat.

I like the idea of keeping the 60gal tank, I've got it wired up as a bit of backup heat. 6Kw of heat isn't much, but it lets me leave the house alone for a few days when I need to. The reason I was going to remove it is I thought it might be more efficient to use the variable speed pump to mix straight from the underground loop, with the tekmar turning the underground loop on only when it wanted to raise the boiler supply temp.


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## tom in maine (Mar 6, 2015)

This is a wonderful boiler design with great serviceability. 
Do you have all the covers and the blower? Looks like it spent time in a damp barn or basement.


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## ewdudley (Mar 7, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> I really don't know much about hydronics, as an Electrician the formulas I learned in school don't do me much good here. I just take a more-or-less educated guess, and when in doubt go bigger


Your electrical knowledge might do you more good than you suppose!

DeltaT is voltage drop.  When we see a change in temperature (delta of temperature, deltaT) of some flow of water then we're seeing a gain or loss of energy, same as gain or loss of energy when we see a change in voltage of some flow of electrons from point A to point B.

gpm is amperage.  Gallons per minute, coulombs per second; take your pick.  With hydronics it's flow of water, electricity is flow of electrons.

Power is unit of energy per unit of time: btu per hour for water, watts (joules per second) for electricity.

So wallop times flow is power.  Voltage drop times amperes is watts.  DeltaT times gpm times 500 is btu per hour.  (500 is just a conversion factor to get us from gallons of water per minute to btus and pounds of water per hour.)

But resistance is much trickier.  With wire the resistance stays more or less the same as long as we're keeping the amperage reasonable, but with pipe the resistance varies exponentially with flow.  Here's a sheet that explains most everything you need to know to get a handle on flow, resistance, and pumps:

http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/FileLibrary/SelectingCirculators.pdf

So bottom line is that in-floor and other radiant emitters can give you nice big deltaTs.  Any time you have higher deltaT you can use smaller pipe and less flow, same as using smaller wire and lower amperage with 440 V to deliver the same power relative to 200 V.

There's no need for when in doubt go bigger.  If you can nail down numbers for maximum heat loss and minimum emitter deltaT then you can figure out what maximum flow needs to be and what maximum size pump will do the job.  (Which might not be possible if the pipe is too small.)
,


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## graham7226 (Mar 7, 2015)

tom in maine said:


> This is a wonderful boiler design with great serviceability.
> Do you have all the covers and the blower? Looks like it spent time in a damp barn or basement.



No I don't have the covers or blower, it may never have had them. As I understand its a prototype, as you can see from the photos there is a bit of a difference between mine and the production model. I'd still love to find a production model but this one will do for now I hope.

The Jetstream is a great design, simple yet efficient, at least in theory. I hope to have some actual experience with it by next heating season. I had run across the rocket stove design and had been reading what I could find about it, with the idea of building a boiler by adapting that design when I ran across the Jetstream on the internet, and realized someone had basically already done it. Since then I've been keeping my eye out for one. Slowzuki had this one stored in his shop only an hour or so away, and the price was right, so I picked it up. I guess he found it in a falling down building, he knows more about its origins than I do.

As mentioned before this one is some kind of prototype and does seem to be somewhat under built, the production models have the corners rolled, mine are welded, and there are several cross ties through the boiler, mine had none. I'm not sure if the upped the steel gauge or not. This one has some issues at the higher end boiler pressure, it's sides are bowed out a bit, so I added a couple cross ties. Even then I had a crack develop in one of the corner welds when it was pressure tested. I'm hoping it will hold up under use.



(Production model is probably Hobbyheater's, I think he singlehandedly uploaded all the jetstream images that can be found on google)


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## graham7226 (Mar 7, 2015)

ewdudley said:


> Your electrical knowledge might do you more good than you suppose!
> 
> DeltaT is voltage drop.  When we see a change in temperature (delta of temperature, deltaT) of some flow of water then we're seeing a gain or loss of energy, same as gain or loss of energy when we see a change in voltage of some flow of electrons from point A to point B.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the PDF link, I've got to keep a copy of that in my saved folder. So then if I'm doing this right my 43-75 Grundfos should be pumping roughly 5Gpm through my underground loop?


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## ewdudley (Mar 7, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> Thanks for the PDF link, I've got to keep a copy of that in my saved folder. So then if I'm doing this right my 43-75 Grundfos should be pumping roughly 5Gpm through my underground loop?


That's right.  Now since it takes 3.6 times the power to pump twice the flow, it can really pay off to use the smallest pump that will do the job.

In your case if all you need is 2 gpm or less you could go from a 215 watt 43-75 to a 50 watt 15-58 running on speed setting II, or even a Grundfos Alpha/B&G Vario/Wilo Stratos using 25 watts at a lower speed setting. Or if you've got an old 15-58, Taco 007, Taco 008, or similar laying around you could cut back to 75 watts.

In any event there is no need to run the pump constantly.  If you can control the pump with an aquastat at the tank, then the pump only needs to run when the temperature at the bottom of the tank drops below a certain temperature that's right for your system, probably something like 100 degF.

(Also there's no return temperature protection in your drawing, which you probably need.)


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## CaperM (Mar 7, 2015)

I bought one of the last Jetstreams in 1994 at Kerr in Truro and still running.It's been a great furnace,I do not have return protection and as yet haven't a problem.Although it probably should be installed on some furnaces.A buddy is looking for a fan motor for his older Jetstream.


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## tom in maine (Mar 8, 2015)

I visited Dick Hill yesterday and we were talking about the Jetstream a bit. None of his original licensees had any return protection. The big difference was that the combustion chamber was refractory on the Jetstream. Dumont and Madawaska. They were very similar to his original design.
The Jetstream is his (and my) favorite variation on the theme.
He told me that his homeowners insurance was cancelled because he heats with woodstoves. Strange world we live in when one of the great innovators of wood combustion gets screwed over by an insurance company. 
He does not mind because he saves over $1000 a year!


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## hobbyheater (Mar 8, 2015)

CaperM said:


> I .A buddy is looking for a fan motor for his older Jetstream.



The vacum cleaner motor or the belt driven blower ?


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## CaperM (Mar 8, 2015)

I am not sure which motor he has, it is an older model. Actually he has 2 older Jetstreams,the last one he bought 15 years ago.This one was siting in the basement,the owner was seldom home and just wanted it gone for $400 dollars.


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## graham7226 (Mar 9, 2015)

CaperM said:


> I am not sure which motor he has, it is an older model. Actually he has 2 older Jetstreams,the last one he bought 15 years ago.This one was siting in the basement,the owner was seldom home and just wanted it gone for $400 dollars.



Lol, he doesn't want to sell one does he?

I'm planning on using an actual shop vac for mine, at least to start.


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## salecker (Mar 9, 2015)

Hi
 A local guy i know took his Jetstream out of his house,and it is in his yard if anyone wants it or any parts of it.I can help with getting stuff shipped.
 Thomas


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## BoilerMan (Mar 9, 2015)

I never realized that the Jetstream was a pressurized boiler.  Always thought the design was meant to be open system.  By the looks of the stays and the relief valve I've learned something about them.  Dick Hill always ran all unpressurized stuff I believe, 275gal oil tanks in the beginning for storage.  Tom?   

TS


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## CaperM (Mar 9, 2015)

My friend with the two Jetstreams has the beltdriven fan,and the motor is toast.There could be parts available,I am going check next week.


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## graham7226 (Mar 10, 2015)

BoilerMan said:


> I never realized that the Jetstream was a pressurized boiler.  Always thought the design was meant to be open system.  By the looks of the stays and the relief valve I've learned something about them.  Dick Hill always ran all unpressurized stuff I believe, 275gal oil tanks in the beginning for storage.  Tom?
> 
> TS



The Kerr owner's manual I have calls for a homemade tank out of 2x6's and a EPDM liner, with a heat exchanger made from 100' of 1" copper hung inside the tank. So the storage was intended to be unpressurized, at least by Kerr. It makes sense when you look at the price of expansion tanks! The only thing is I wonder how efficient they would be to put the heat in then get it back out. If the tank layers properly I would imagine it would be almost impossible to get all the heat out with an exchanger of that design.



CaperM said:


> My friend with the two Jetstreams has the beltdriven fan,and the motor is toast.There could be parts available,I am going check next week.
> 
> TS



Motors aren't usually that big a deal, as long as it's similar, especially with a fan. Just keep your RPM's and HP close.


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## Hydronics (Mar 10, 2015)

You may want to review Tom's website (Americansolartechnics.com) before you build a tank. A 1" hx is not the most efficient and epdm is not the ideal liner material.


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## graham7226 (Mar 10, 2015)

Hydronics said:


> You may want to review Tom's website (Americansolartechnics.com) before you build a tank. A 1" hx is not the most efficient and epdm is not the ideal liner material.



No that wasn't the plan. I actually just got back from picking up a 500Gal propane tank at Tri-province, I'm going to try it with 500G and later upgrade it with another tank to 1000 If I feel the need. For anyone wondering you can fit a 500 gallon propane tank on the back of a short box half-ton, days like this I wish I had a real truck.

I'm going to stand the propane tank on it's end, seems to me that would be better for keeping all the hot water at the top of the tank. Anybody know if it would be worth the extra bother of building the stand? Or would I be better off just laying it on it's side the way it was designed to be.


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## hobbyheater (Mar 10, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> Lol, he doesn't want to sell one does he?
> 
> I'm planning on using an actual shop vac for mine, at least to start.




The vacuum motor that I have used is a Ametek Lamb Electric (116311-01) producing 99 CFM and can be bought from the link below.

http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm


The difference between 120 CFM and 99 CFM is big in performance: the 120 jumping the boiler output to close to 200,000 BTUs per hour and taking the refractory beyond its working limits in temperature.


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## graham7226 (Mar 10, 2015)

hobbyheater said:


> The vacuum motor that I have used is a Ametek Lamb Electric (116311-01) producing 99 CFM and can be bought from the link below.
> 
> http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
> 
> ...



So was 120 CFM what the original fan unit produced?


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## hobbyheater (Mar 10, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> So was 120 CFM what the original fan unit produced?



The original was 96 CFM, the water column is also important  and the original was 85 which  the 1163-01 produces.

Google "jetstreams out with the old" and you will find my install of a new Jetstream last Sept.


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## slowzuki (Mar 11, 2015)

Because he doesn't have a draft inducer yet he can size the port to blow any excess flow up the stack.


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## graham7226 (Mar 11, 2015)

hobbyheater said:


> The original was 96 CFM, the water column is also important  and the original was 85 which  the 1163-01 produces.
> 
> Google "jetstreams out with the old" and you will find my install of a new Jetstream last Sept.






slowzuki said:


> Because he doesn't have a draft inducer yet he can size the port to blow any excess flow up the stack.



Hobbyheater, I've read your Jetstream posts, lots of very useful information. I've got to admit I had to hold back a tear when you mentioned breaking up the old refractory base to get it out! I know it lead a long useful life but it's still sad knowing that there e is one less unit out there.

My shopvac motor that I have here supposedly produces 120CFM. As slowzuki mentions I am missing the draft inducer and will have to fabricate one. I could divert more air through that but I have a feeling it would still increase the CFM's running through the firebox. The plan at the moment is to use a fan speed controller to slow the vac motor down to the correct CFM. I couldn't find any mention of the original fan's output, many thanks for that.

CFM I understand, but I admit the water column confuses me a little. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the same CFM running through that particular size pipe (Stainless steel air nozzle on the Jetstream) would natural create the same water column measurement?


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## hobbyheater (Mar 11, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> CFM I understand, but I admit the water column confuses me a little. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the same CFM running through that particular size pipe (Stainless steel air nozzle on the Jetstream) would natural create the same water column measurement?



The two stage vacuum  motors when used as blowers create a certain amount of pressure.  I tried using a forge blower that was 120 CFM.  It lacked the pressure and could not do the job.


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## Coal Reaper (Mar 12, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> I'm going to stand the propane tank on it's end, seems to me that would be better for keeping all the hot water at the top of the tank. Anybody know if it would be worth the extra bother of building the stand? Or would I be better off just laying it on it's side the way it was designed to be.


i think its worth it.  stratification is more awesomer like this.  save floor space also.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/sending-500-gallon-tanks-verticle.107273/


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## slowzuki (Mar 12, 2015)

With the correct wc (pressure) on the nozzle into the chamber, the size of that nozzle sets the air flow.  As the unit gets older and the nozzle wears a larger opening, the CFM will climb.  The inducer slightly affects the airflow but it runs at a just barely negative pressure and doesn't affect it that much.  Even when full flow diverted to the inducer with lid open.


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## graham7226 (Mar 13, 2015)

Coal Reaper said:


> i think its worth it.  stratification is more awesomer like this.  save floor space also.
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/sending-500-gallon-tanks-verticle.107273/



I originally wanted to stand it up, but after getting the tank here it looked like it would be so easy to just set it in the building under the pallet racking, I could even use the ports already in it. I've heard that stratification is not so important for radiant heat, but after taking measurements my pallet racking is only 8ft and the tank 9, so I've got to stand it up. Just as well I'm sure as you say it will work better.

I like your tank stands, they look much better and easier to build than what I had in mind. How thick is your steel plate? Do you think you bleed any heat to the floor?


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## Boil&Toil (Mar 13, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> For anyone wondering you can fit a 500 gallon propane tank on the back of a short box half-ton, days like this I wish I had a real truck.


Having had a "real truck" (1-ton crew-cab-longbed-4x4) I strongly suggest getting through the "backing up a trailer" learning curve and only take the large bed along when you need it. Twice the fuel milage the REST of the time is nice...and a 14 foot bed is handy, too.


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## Boil&Toil (Mar 13, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> the tank keeps failing my pressure test. I attached an airline to the boiler and filled it to 30PSI. Seems like every time I get one air leak fixed another pops up.


Just a note - this is the REALLY hairy way to do this. You should fill with water, not air, to pressure test. If you get a serious failure when pressure testing with water, you get wet. With air, you can get shrapnel.


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## Coal Reaper (Mar 13, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> I like your tank stands, they look much better and easier to build than what I had in mind. How thick is your steel plate? Do you think you bleed any heat to the floor?


 i think its 5/16".  originally i was jsut going to weld 4 angle iron legs to the side and call it done.  but i think the whole frame is more stable.  plus the added surface area doesnt hurt.
bleed heat to the floor.  i suspect i do.  concrete doesnt feel warm but i have to be losing BTUs.  if i were to do it over i would lay down a sheet of HDPE or similar between the floor and the steel plate to try to isolate the heat transfer.  thought about that after the fact...


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## graham7226 (Mar 14, 2015)

Boil&Toil said:


> Just a note - this is the REALLY hairy way to do this. You should fill with water, not air, to pressure test. If you get a serious failure when pressure testing with water, you get wet. With air, you can get shrapnel.



Thanks for the warning! I actually had a buddy of mine over helping me, who pointed it out already, so I stopped doing it. Stupid really, I ought to know better. If I'd taken a moment to think about it, 30 Psi of *compressed* air is very different from water pressurized to 30 Psi.


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## ewdudley (Mar 14, 2015)

Boil&Toil said:


> Just a note - this is the REALLY hairy way to do this. You should fill with water, not air, to pressure test. If you get a serious failure when pressure testing with water, you get wet. With air, you can get shrapnel.


No, not really.  If you peek inside and see no signs of prolonged corrosion damage and the outside has no significant defects, then 30 psig in a used propane tank should be no problem whatsoever.  The test was for leaks, not for tank integrity under pressure.


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## graham7226 (Apr 30, 2015)

Finally got it together and fired up! Seems to work pretty good, got lots of fine tuning to do but it sure burns wood.

Propane tanks make decent radiators, 30C in the shop, guess insulation for that tank is my next step.


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## slowzuki (Sep 8, 2015)

Missed this post Jeremy, looks great!


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## graham7226 (Oct 29, 2015)

Well, after having a few fires in the boiler this fall the cement that bonds the steel tank to the refractory base has failed. Smoking a little. I used this stuff I found local at Canadian Tire: http://bit.ly/1MWpJP2
In the end it appeared to be more related to some form of silicone or something after hardening, didn't really look like any kind of cement. It was very brittle when cured and I think that's what caused the failure. I'm also thinking that it probably isn't very thermally conductive, and not helping me move the heat out of the refractory base and into the water.
Thinking about ordering this stuff from Amazon: http://amzn.to/1KHJV5N
This appears to be an actual cement, my only concern being that it is only rated to 2200 degrees. I seem to remember in the back of my mind reading a post by hobbyheater that said he recommended 2800 degree refractory, but as of yet I have been unable to find any rated that high. Anybody know what the original refractory base is made of?


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## maple1 (Oct 29, 2015)

An aside - did you get an email a couple days ago from someone pointing to a Jetstream on kijiji? That was me. Too bad you missed it - it looked in pretty good shape in the pic.

Good luck going forward -hopefully you get more input.


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## slowzuki (Oct 29, 2015)

I phoned about that jetstream too but it was gone asap.  Re the cement, it is very brittle, I was warned by the former dealer not to be stingy with the cement when bedding it down.  Thick layer all around.  The refractory is a few different types of material, the base is supposed to be more insulating, the burn pot is supposed to a very durable type so log's dropping in don't erode the wall.  If it has separated at the top layer only and is still bonded to the base, a thin careful layer of highest temp rated silicone should survive fine to reseal.  The metal tank even where it touches the base will be close to 100 C, the thicker the layer of silicone though the higher it will get in temp as it insulates.


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## graham7226 (Oct 30, 2015)

maple1 said:


> An aside - did you get an email a couple days ago from someone pointing to a Jetstream on kijiji? That was me. Too bad you missed it - it looked in pretty good shape in the pic.
> 
> Good luck going forward -hopefully you get more input.



Thanks. I had already called about it and unfortunately it was gone. I was kinda surprised actually. You would think your average Joe would look at one of those and be a bit intimidated by how odd it is. Anyway just gotta keep my eyes peeled apparently there are a few Jetstreams still out there in the wild.


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## bnew63 (Nov 6, 2015)

hobbyheater said:


> The original was 96 CFM, the water column is also important  and the original was 85 which  the 1163-01 produces.
> 
> Google "jetstreams out with the old" and you will find my install of a new Jetstream last Sept.



I see you are casting your own replacement pieces for the jetstream.
Could you send me the dimensions for the tunnel.
I've been using split fire brick but they dont give quite as clean combustion

Brian


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## slowzuki (Nov 10, 2015)

I'll try to find my CFM notes, with the original high pressure blower as the nozzle erodes and gets bigger the CFM's injected get really high.  The things already burn with excess air so the efficiency starts to go down.


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## graham7226 (Nov 20, 2015)

bnew63 said:


> I see you are casting your own replacement pieces for the jetstream.
> Could you send me the dimensions for the tunnel.
> I've been using split fire brick but they dont give quite as clean combustion
> 
> Brian



I've never cast a replacement nozzle, I believe hobbyheater has, but I had mine out cleaning ashes this morning and took a few measurements. I've been thinking I should probably try to make a plaster mold of it or something now while it's still in such good shape. It's a pretty complex shape so it's hard to explain the measurements, hopefully this can be some use to you.

The casting is 1.5 inches thick
The tunnel is 8.5 inches wide, 13.5 inches long
The 'shelf' is roughly 3.5 inches long, the main body is 9 inches long at the top and 8 at the bottom.
The Tunnel is 7 inches tall at the high part and 6 at the low end.


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## hobbyheater (Nov 21, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> I've never cast a replacement nozzle, I believe hobbyheater has, but I had mine out cleaning ashes this morning and took a few measurements. I've been thinking I should probably try to make a plaster mold of it or something now while it's still in such good shape. It's a pretty complex shape so it's hard to explain the measurements, hopefully this can be some use to you.



 You have a perfect tunnel - very carefully make a reusable mold from it.
Some pictures of my reusable mold.


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## bnew63 (Nov 23, 2015)

graham7226 said:


> I've never cast a replacement nozzle, I believe hobbyheater has, but I had mine out cleaning ashes this morning and took a few measurements. I've been thinking I should probably try to make a plaster mold of it or something now while it's still in such good shape. It's a pretty complex shape so it's hard to explain the measurements, hopefully this can be some use to you.
> 
> The casting is 1.5 inches thick
> The tunnel is 8.5 inches wide, 13.5 inches long
> ...


thanks Graham
I didnt know that they are still available
I will take hobbyheaters advice and buy one then make a cast for the future


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