# Enviro Windsor, does anyone have a PDF to the original brochure?



## VCBurner (Sep 5, 2011)

*I wanted to ask if anyone has the original brochure in pdf form, if so could you PM me or post a link on this thread?  *



This thread will be my experience from purchase to install and anything else I learned during the operation of the Enviro Windsor! For the latest posts please go to the last page. I hope this thread helps someone who is looking for info on this particular stove. So here it goes:

I just sold four wood stoves and moved into a house with no chimneys!  So I thought I'd try a pellet stove.  Found an Enviro Windsor just about 9 years old.  The guy will take 850 for it.  It is grey enamel and looks to be in pretty good shape.  The auger motor was replaced last April and it runs well according to the owner.  Any advice on this one from you experienced pellet guys?

And since then a lot has happened:
 9/10/11: $260 deposit was made.  I met the owner, who turned out to be a fine gentleman, up in New Hampshire.
10/16/11: $640 balance paid totaling $900. I picked up the stove from member Enviro (thank you kind sir) in New Hampshire, it was a beautiful day.  
10/29/11: the stove was installed just as the unusual October Nor'easter started to dump 22" on us, pfew!

I have enjoyed this winter with the Windsor and learned a great deal about pellet stoves.  Again, this is largely due to the wonderful Hearth.com community, which has proven to have a wealth of members who are always willing to provide information and  lend a hand.  As of 2/22/2012 there have been no major problems with the stove and it has heated the house nicely.  The heat has not been on since the stove was installed back in October. The following pics are the original one posted in the craigslist add, one taken after the instal near Halloween and another taken on a sunny day in the winter.   

Thanks for reading this thread, I hope you enjoy it.


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## imacman (Sep 5, 2011)

Welcome...glad to have you switch over from the "Dark Side" of the forums...LOL.

I'm assuming you've already purchased the stove....I hope you had the original owner fire it up for you before you bought it.


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## VCBurner (Sep 5, 2011)

> Welcomeâ€¦glad to have you switch over from the â€œDark Sideâ€ of the forumsâ€¦LOL.


 :lol: I will miss the logs and flames, but not the heat I hope!!
No, I have not bought it yet.  The pic was from C List.  I'm going to look at it tomorrow and put a down payment if I like it.  So firing it up would be the first piece of advice?!


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## imacman (Sep 5, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> .....So firing it up would be the first piece of advice?!



YES!  If the owner won't fire it up for you, beware.  The stove will run anywhere you can get it plugged in, and does NOT need any exhaust pipe for a test run....I burned-in my new stove in on my deck w/o any pipe for 2 hours, no problem.

And as far as the price, kinda steep for a 9 yr old stove.   If it runs, I'd offer him $750 cash.


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## VCBurner (Sep 5, 2011)

I must admit my research is limited but the prices I saw for used pellet stoves are all pretty steep in my opinion.  We are looking for a wood stove look alike and enviro seems to be respected.  If I had 750 cash I would certainly offer it to him and see if he would bite.  But I discussed the option of giving him 200 and taking a couple of weeks to stretch out the remaining 650.  He agreed to the terms and this will give us the oportunity to set up the house in the meantime.  The seller was asking 1100 and dropped it to 925, which generated interest, we settled on 850.  I just don't want to miss the oportunity even if it is a 100 bucks more than it should be.  I didn't see much in the high 100's that was nice mostly over 1000 were nice but we don't have that after just moving.  I had to drop quite a bit of $ on the move.  

Thank you for any input.


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## imacman (Sep 5, 2011)

But the question remains....did you see the stove run?   

Yes, Enviro is a good stove, and I'm sure that parts can be found for it if need be in the future.

Another advantage of a pellet stove, is the ability to connect a thermostat, which the Windsor does have.


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## VCBurner (Sep 6, 2011)

The guy called me this afternoon and said the stove was sold.  So the search continues.  Thanks for the info.


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## Don2222 (Sep 6, 2011)

Hello

Something to consider.

I agree with Franks in the post below who has alot of experience, that steel stoves might be better performers. One thing I noticed about steel stoves is the better ability to shape the steel such as 3 sided glass doors and steel chambers inside the stove, do make it shaped to perform better.

See posting  Cast iron vs Steel pellet stove
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/74850/

I know the looks of Cast iron is really great but Steel does not get as brittle as cast iron except in that old 1913 boat called the Titanic! LOL

That is my 2 cents


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## VTrider (Sep 6, 2011)

I have the same exact stove from 2001/2002 and I have to say it's been very reliable, high quality and easy to clean.  That being said, I wouldn't hesitate buying a 9 year old Windsor for around that price 'if' it was in very good condition and well maintained.  Don't feel bad about missing that sale, I saw the original post on CL and the ceramic glass in front had a crack in the corner which the owner said he 'repaired' with cement.  The door for this particular model would set you back well over $200.00 alone.

If you like that model, I'd suggest looking for a used Empress (which pretty much replaced the Windsor) - newer model and parts would be easier to find.


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## jtakeman (Sep 6, 2011)

It may take a bit to get used too pellet heat. Not quite the heat you'll get from the wood cranker. But the convenience of only filling the stove once a day and the steady heat over-ride the heat feel. Keeping the humidity up also helps the warmth factor.

Plus not dropping splits on the toes first thing in the morning is priceless!


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## VCBurner (Sep 6, 2011)

VTrider said:
			
		

> I have the same exact stove from 2001/2002 and I have to say it's been very reliable, high quality and easy to clean.  That being said, I wouldn't hesitate buying a 9 year old Windsor for around that price 'if' it was in very good condition and well maintained.  Don't feel bad about missing that sale, I saw the original post on CL and the ceramic glass in front had a crack in the corner which the owner said he 'repaired' with cement.  The door for this particular model would set you back well over $200.00 alone.
> 
> If you like that model, I'd suggest looking for a used Empress (which pretty much replaced the Windsor) - newer model and parts would be easier to find.


Thaks VT, how much do you go through in the way of pellets?  These are a little bit heavy on pellet consumption, no?  One piece of that glass is $200, wow I was thinking around  $100.  I looked at the empress new at a dealer, he said they were a bit heavy on consumption compared to some others he had in the shop.  Some of the others he said about 1-2 lbs/ hour the empress eats about 3.5 lbs/hour.  More than 3x the consumtion his best m,odel had at one pound/hour on low!  That was one of those steel jobs with the bay window that could heat up to 3000 sq ft.  I could probably keep it on low and still heat the 1600 sq ft in this house in the winter.  But they run about $3000 brand new, which I'm not willing to pay.  That plus cost of pellets I could heat the house for an entire year on oil.  I'm looking to save, not spend.  The most I ever spent on a wood stove was $550 on a reconditioned cat Dutchwest with all neww seams and gaskets.  The thing looked brand new when I sold it a couple of weeks ago!


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## VCBurner (Sep 6, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> It may take a bit to get used too pellet heat. Not quite the heat you'll get from the wood cranker. But the convenience of only filling the stove once a day and the steady heat over-ride the heat feel. Keeping the humidity up also helps the warmth factor.
> 
> Plus not dropping splits on the toes first thing in the morning is priceless!



I could get used to the pellets I think, as much as I loved the wood fire, not having to load it three to four times a day could be easy to get accustomed to.  I think I need a big stove with low consumption to save on pellets.  Maybe a stove that will heat 2000-3000 sq ft then I could keep it on low and consume less.  The real cold days up here in northern Mass are just like NH  so I could cranck it up a bit! The house is only 1600 sq ft.


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## jtakeman (Sep 6, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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I always suggest a larger stove than needed and exactly what I have in my house. It will burn about 1/2 power in the normal cold weather. But if you get a cold snap you can and will have plenty of room on the top end. Sizing a stove to just enough for the space isn't my cup of tea. I will perform like an economy car, No power when its really needed. Plus most of these have thermostats for the fall/spring shoulder season. I suggest hi/low mode in the cold to extend the igniter some.  

I'll second the Enviro plug. My Omega rocks! Closest thing to the woodstove feel we have had. And I never over work it, Most it has seen is the medium heat setting. And if power goes out even in the cold it brings the temps up quickly without additional heat sources. There are +'s to them major(big-a$$) BTU stove's.


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## VCBurner (Sep 7, 2011)

I guess it would be the same as wood stoves the bigger ones are capable of more, but with some major differences.  A bigger pellet stove will consume less pellets to heat more space, where a bigger wood stove will always usually consume more wood to heat a bigger space.  Am I making sence?


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## DexterDay (Sep 7, 2011)

Go Big or Go Home.. My Quad is only 47,5000 and I use Low 90% of the time. To heat 2,180 sq ft.  You can find a good deal if you stick to it... Pellets are not as hard as one thinks. Its easier than Wood Heat. I just started this year with the 30. 10 cord in 3 months is killing me. Dont take nothing to move 3-4 ton of pellets... I dont think you will be dissapointed. Keep searching


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## VTrider (Sep 7, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Thaks VT, how much do you go through in the way of pellets?  These are a little bit heavy on pellet consumption, no?



I actually really under-utilized the Windsor since it really only heats a very small addition on my house, I only go through about 1/2ton a season.  I've never heard that it's heavy on consumption, but then again it's usually always on the low settings.  Newer stoves are probably more efficient.




			
				j-takeman said:
			
		

> There are +'s to them major(big-a$$) BTU stove's.



I have to agree with the above statement.  I heated the main part of my home only with a big-a$$ wood stove for the last 7 seasons.  Decided to make the switch this year and just installed a big-a$$ pellet stove to replace it.  I went big and at face value seems like major over-kill, but everyone's home and heating situation is different - Based on my situation, I feel pretty confident I won't wake up cold come this Feb when it's -20F.


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## sfcomm (Sep 8, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> The guy called me this afternoon and said the stove was sold.  So the search continues.  Thanks for the info.



"The guy called me this afternoon and said the stove was sold" or you didn't showup for the appointment you made?? honesty?? :exclaim:


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## DexterDay (Sep 8, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

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Ooooo.... 1st Post by Enviro??  Are you "The Guy" with the Windsor??

If so... Why are you selling it? What has been replaced recently? How many ton a year did you run through it? (I.E.- 4 ton/ year at 8 years = 32 ton) was this a primary source of heat? Or a weekend warrior warmer? 

Welcome to the Forum. Are you looking to replace the stove with another pellet stove? Or just get rid of it all together? 

Inquiring Mind/Minds want to know? (May just be me, but I still would like to know) Also, there is a Articles For Sale section. I purchased my Englander 30 woodstove through there. I drove over an hour away because the guy gave me such a great deal. You stove is a nice one. But it has some years on it. Is anything else included in the sale? Hearth Pad, Pellets, Flue, Etc??


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## sfcomm (Sep 8, 2011)

@DexterDay

Yup first post and I am "The Guy" I couldn't resist the oppurtunity (to post) after having been stood up after agreeing to put the thing on lay away for VCBurner. So for your and all other inquiring minds, A friend had to move from NH to SC rather fast for his job. He had just purchased a 25PDVC, still on the pallet, never installed. He was going to rent his house here in NH, so he said come and take it, it's yours. So, I put in in the living room in place of the Windsor. It 's not as pretty, but I wanted to try a bottom feeder. 

So that's why the Windsor is for sale. The auger motor and motor mount was replaced at the very end of last season. Prior to that, a couple seasons back, I put in a new igniter and burn pot and liner and I have replaced the auger motor one other time. I used the stove as my primary heat (cut my oil consumption by 85%. I still use oil for domestic hot water as well taking a chill off the bedrooms when the temps are below 0) for an 1100 sq ft raised ranch with cathedral ceilings in the living room, kitchen, dining areas. I'd use 3-4 tons of pellets a season. I start the season with 4 tons by the third season I'd only buy 1 or 2 tons. Ran the stove on a programmable  thermostat in idle mode vs. ON/OFF mode the whole time.  

No hearth pads, flue pipe. I do have some additional new spares (yes, I keep spare parts, I understand that these are mechanical pieces of heating equipment and I'm not afraid to work an a piece of equipment) that I put in the sale if selling for asking $925. Burn pot liner, auger motor mt, auger bushings, auger motor mt bushings, igniter

@VTrider a piece of ceramic glass from 13"x18"x3/16th" should be able to be purchased for 60-75$ from a glass shop. I will agree you can pay 200-250 for it from some glass shops and from Enviro.
@imacman  I've looked at alot of enameled cast iron stoves and I think $850.00 is cheap and yes he could have fired it if he showed. If I can't sell the Windsor for a reasonable amount, I'll throw it in the shop, It just seems like way to nice of looking stove for that.


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## DexterDay (Sep 8, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

> @DexterDay
> 
> Yup first post and I am "The Guy" I couldn't resist the oppurtunity (to post) after having been stood up after agreeing to put the thing on lay away for VCBurner. So for your and all other inquiring minds, A friend had to move from NH to SC rather fast for his job. He had just purchased a 25PDVC, still on the pallet, never installed. He was going to rent his house here in NH, so he said come and take it, it's yours. So, I put in in the living room in place of the Windsor. It 's not as pretty, but I wanted to try a bottom feeder.
> 
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Ok. Enough said. Sounds like you took good care of it. The parts alone are worth a fair amount. Welcome. Because you have the Englander?? Are you going to become a "frequent member"? Or is this some way of... Well, I won't go there. Congrats on the Englander. I personally, would rather keep the Enviro. But either way, I'm sure you will sell it. That's a pretty good price considering the parts. The broken glass will scare 90% of buyers away. Only the 10% that KNOW Pellet Stoves will bite. I would go ahead and spend the $60 (if that's what you can get it for) and replace the glass. Will make selling it much easier. IMHO.


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## sfcomm (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome. It was some way of .....Well where you didn't want to go. However I do think I might hangout for awhile. I don't know about a "frequent member". Nice point on replacing the glass for the sale. Thanks


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## VCBurner (Sep 9, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

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I apologize for the mix up.  I received a text from someone saying thank you for your interest but the stove was sold.  Among all the numbers I had called about stoves on craigslist I thought it was yours!! :-S  I have been a member around here for a little while and it is not my custom to try to downgrade others on this site.  I honestly thought the cell number attached to the text was yours!  

For what it's worth, you seemed like a nice person on the phone and the deal we had agreed upon was more than good.  The price was also very competitive for what's actually available as far as used pellet stoves.  I did not mind the small crack on the glass as we discussed on the phone.  I've been around stoves long enough to know that they are generally around $100 for a piece that big.  I was surprised one of the members here quoted the glass as being $200.  He must have been mistaking, but I sort of knew there was no way it would cost that much.  I had no problems at all with the stove or anything we discussed.  I posted this thread solely to get some input on the Windsor so I could make a more educated decision when I came down and saw you.  I believe I mentioned to you on the phone I had been down at a dealer to look at the Empress model to which the Windsor had been the predecessor.  There was not a word posted here aimed at disrespecting you at all.  The text I received must have been someone else in NH with a similar number or at least area code, I was actually disapointed when I saw the text because I liked the stove!  I have a hearth pad that would go well with it, the landlady approved and it is the perfect fit for us size and stylewise!  Since you have not sold it my end of the deal still stands, I'll come down tomorrow day and give you the sum we discussed if you're still interested

Take care,
Chris


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## VTrider (Sep 9, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

> @VTrider a piece of ceramic glass from 13"x18"x3/16th" should be able to be purchased for 60-75$ from a glass shop. I will agree you can pay 200-250 for it from some glass shops and from Enviro



You have a valid point there, I should have pointed out that you need not get the glass through the dealer and could DIY much cheaper - I was just basing the cost from a quick 3rd party search for parts on this model, Jeeez, i'm almost tempted to buy it from ya as a backup/parts stove for my Windsor!  Especially since i've developed a blower issue which I cannot seem to resolve, but that's another thread.  Anyway, good luck with the sale and welcome as well to the forums.


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## DexterDay (Sep 9, 2011)

I have made mis-haps and mistakes before with emails when I am trying to get or sell something off of Craiglist. I have mixed up emails before and there are Names attached to them. 

Honest mistake??? What matters is the deal can still be done if both parties allow. 

I dont think anyone over-stepped any boundries or called anyone anything. 

Cant we all just get along and talk about stoves, pellets, chainsaws, and related hearth products. I hope it all comes out in the wash. 


Enviro.. If you are selling the Enviro, you could still change your username (To a name more fitting that you like/use more often.nickname) or leave it. But if your gonna stick around for awhile. I would love to see you start a new thread in the "Gear" section of the Forum on your "4 Duramax's" in your Sig line... 

VC burner. seems like it was takin good care of. Has extra parts. 


Hope the 2 of you can come to an understanding. This is not the place to Vent Anger/Fustration. You have each others #'s. Enviro still wants to sell. VCburner still wants to buy. Problem solved.


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## VCBurner (Sep 9, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

> Thanks for the welcome. It was some way of .....Well where you didn't want to go. However I do think I might hangout for awhile. I don't know about a "frequent member". Nice point on replacing the glass for the sale. Thanks



Yes, I forgot to say welcome to Hearth.com!  Nice people hang around here, I've met some who I would consider friends!


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## sfcomm (Sep 9, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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For what it's worth I am a nice guy and you explanation seemed reasonable. Wasn't offended at all by the thread itself, just offended just by the fact you didn't show. Then surprised to see I called and said the stove was sold! That having been said (more than enough times) the stove is still for sale if you really are still interested. The lay away terms and price we discussed are still valid. I am not around at all today (Fri) but will be around all weekend. Let me know if you'd like to come and when. I have a guy from Burlington, VT scheduled to come Tuesday to look at it, but he understands it could sell B4 then and that I'd let him know if it did.


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## sfcomm (Sep 9, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> I have made mis-haps and mistakes before with emails when I am trying to get or sell something off of Craiglist. I have mixed up emails before and there are Names attached to them.
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> Honest mistake??? What matters is the deal can still be done if both parties allow.
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Your absolutely right, this could have been just a mix up. The fact that he made contact shows that! I'll do my part to correct. Right again "Enviro" is a miserable user name, strictly done in haste and the "4 Duramaxs are another story! Wise person you are DexterDay


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## VCBurner (Sep 9, 2011)

This is the reason I love this site.  Even when something becomes an issue we can talk it over and resolve things.  Thank you Dexter for serving as a mediator of sorts.  Enviro, thanks for reconsidering and for posting on this thread.  If you had not, I would have never known the stove was still available.  I understand why you wold have been disappointed by the no show, I assure you it was unintentional.  

Thank you all for the posts and input on the stove!


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## DexterDay (Sep 9, 2011)

Bravo......... Well played by both parties. It all comes out in the wash. 

VCburner, this is why I too love this Forum. Just by saying what you said and still offering the deal (both parties) says to me that you were honest about the call/text.

Enviro, good call on "calling him out". Had you not done it. Neither party would have known the whole story. I am still going to be on the lookout for the "4 Duramax's" Story. Duramax, Torque, or Diesel seem a more fitting user name. Considering the Copious amounts of Torque that you have. (Or leave it, I like Enviro. Still would love to get my hands on a discontinued Omega) 

I apologize if either of you thought I was "digging" into your business. 
I hope that the reconciliation continues. Looking forward to a "New Install" Thread. From possibly both of you. 

Is the Englander installed yet Enviro??


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## VCBurner (Sep 10, 2011)

Again, I find myself happy about a new stove.  This time it is a totally different beast!  I must thank Enviro for joinning the club and posting on this thread!  What a small world we live in especially once the web is introduced into the mix.  This site has once again proven to come in handy in unconventional ways.  The Wndsor is every bit as beautiful as I thought it might be.  It'll be a nice introduction to pellets, I hope will go as well as my experience with wood.  The wood burning fit my lifestyle to a T.  Now a new journey begins, learning new things and ways to heat alternatively.  I welcome this new world with open arms and an open mind.  Things could only fall into place now as they always have in the past.  Thank you Enviro for making this deal possible, I look forward to seeing you in three weeks.  Can't wait to fire it up!!


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## raybonz (Sep 11, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Again, I find myself happy about a new stove.  This time it is a totally different beast!  I must thank Enviro for joinning the club and posting on this thread!  What a small world we live in especially once the web is introduced into the mix.  This site has once again proven to come in handy in unconventional ways.  The Wndsor is every bit as beautiful as I thought it might be.  It'll be a nice introduction to pellets, I hope will go as well as my experience with wood.  The wood burning fit my lifestyle to a T.  Now a new journey begins, learning new things and ways to heat alternatively.  I welcome this new world with open arms and an open mind.  Things could only fall into place now as they always have in the past.  Thank you Enviro for making this deal possible, I look forward to seeing you in three weeks.  Can't wait to fire it up!!



LOL Chris that was the most convoluted Craigslist transaction I have seen! My CDW sale had a few quirks until one guy contacted me that said he had the exact same stove.. He came by looked it over and commented I can see you took really good care of this stove.. He was happy as all his family members knew how to run this stove so he wanted to replace his (had a warped inner top so the bypass wouldn't close anymore) .. He offered $350.00 and without hesitation I accepted the offer.. He tried to give me $100.00 for a deposit and I refused and said a handshake worked for me.. We worked out a time he could pick it up and he brought along a few goons to get it into his truck and paid $350.00 in cash.. I'll miss the old girl as she served me well for 20+ years but it was time to move on.. From what I have read in this post Chris Enviro sounds like a standup guy and with those spare parts included you got a good deal.. Best wishes and I look fwd. to hearing about this pellet burner..Dexter you done well here too so feel good about that.. I still wonder why you pellet guys need a chainsaw though lol.. Gotta be hard to cut those lil pellets without chopping off your fingers!! As for splitting them I won't even go there!!  

Ray


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## VCBurner (Sep 11, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> LOL Chris that was the most convoluted Craigslist transaction I have seen! My CDW sale had a few quirks until one guy contacted me that said he had the exact same stove.. He came by looked it over and commented I can see you took really good care of this stove.. He was happy as all his family members knew how to run this stove so he wanted to replace his (had a warped inner top so the bypass wouldn't close anymore) .. He offered $350.00 and without hesitation I accepted the offer.. He tried to give me $100.00 for a deposit and I refused and said a handshake worked for me.. We worked out a time he could pick it up and he brought along a few goons to get it into his truck and paid $350.00 in cash.. I'll miss the old girl as she served me well for 20+ years but it was time to move on.. From what I have read in this post Chris Enviro sounds like a standup guy and with those spare parts included you got a good deal.. Best wishes and I look fwd. to hearing about this pellet burner..Dexter you done well here too so feel good about that..* I still wonder why you pellet guys need a chainsaw though lol.. Gotta be hard to cut those lil pellets without chopping off your fingers!! As for splitting them I won't even go there!!  *Ray



LMAO :lol:   I'll keep my chainsaw, just in case and the giant wedge maul!  As far as the stove, there's no doubt in my mind it's in good shape.  Enviro took great care of it and even fired it up for me to show it worked.  He game me tips and will remain a good source of information even after the sale is complete I'm sure!  My DW went for $400, can you believe it?  That was probably the deal of the century as far as wood stoves are concerned.  New SS cat, spare used ceramic cat and a stove that looks like it came off the showroom floor.  All dusted off and cleaned inside and out.  I even gave it a coat of polish before it got picked up!  At a shop, it would go for about 1800 with an SS cat and a blower.  

I'm certainly looking forward to picking up this beauty of a stove.  Bringing it home will be a joy.


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## DexterDay (Sep 11, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

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Ray, It would be hard to cut up pellets with the Saw. Might have to find a smaller Bar and chain for my Top handle.. LOL

 But the Saws are for the Wood Cutting for the 30 in the basement. Even without a Woodstove, everyone should have a Good Saw. 
 I love both the Wood stove and the Pellet stove equally. I try not to discriminate. 

Chris. It will take a little getting used to, but I'm sure you'll love the New Stove. 

Enviro, Your a Good Man doing what you did and still sticking with the original deal. Its Nice to still see people out there, that understand how the economy is. Good for you

Glad it all worked out.


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## raybonz (Sep 11, 2011)

Yup Dexter I see you in the wood forums often..

Ray


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## sfcomm (Sep 11, 2011)

So yes VCBurner came and purchased the Windsor yesterday. He got to see it fire and everything.  After meeting Chris I immediately knew how this (missed appointment) really was a mixup. He's just an all around great guy. I'm looking forward to him coming to pick it up, so I have a chance to talk with him again! What a strange set of circumstances put this sale back together. Finding this thread and a pic of my stove sitting in my living room on a site (hearth.com) that I don't think I had ever visited B4.  The thread with it's good/bad positive/negative comments about the stove, came complete with an intermediary (DexterDay) and everything :exclaim:  So thanks for the assistance.


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## VCBurner (Sep 11, 2011)

enviro said:
			
		

> So yes VCBurner came and purchased the Windsor yesterday. He got to see it fire and everything.  After meeting Chris I immediately knew how this (missed appointment) really was a mixup. He's just an all around great guy. I'm looking forward to him coming to pick it up, so I have a chance to talk with him again! What a strange set of circumstances put this sale back together. Finding this thread and a pic of my stove sitting in my living room on a site (hearth.com) that I don't think I had ever visited B4.  The thread with it's good/bad positive/negative comments about the stove, came complete with an intermediary (DexterDay) and everything :exclaim:  So thanks for the assistance.



That's the way things seem to go around here.  Lots of different views and opinions, but most of the time things work out in the end.  The most important thing is it brings us all together and knowledge is power.  With the wealth of knowledge shared here we really do have an advantage over most other stove users/buyers who don't frequent the site.  

Thank you for the kind words Enviro, I look forward to our next meeting as well.  Also, hope we keep in touch after the sale.  We have this great avenue here, why not use it?  

Take care,

Chris


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## VCBurner (Oct 17, 2011)

Ok, so the stove has come home.  Thank you to Enviro for the kindness and understanding of my situation.  Thanks to those who posted the opinions on this thread helping me to make a decision.
  I'm now on the installation stage which I want to complete by the end of the week if possible.  My questions are, I have just enough clearance to the sides of the stove to combustibles.  There are 8" on both sides but I'm not convinced it'll be enough.  Maybe it's just the lack of experience with pellet stoves.  *Is it ok to put the stove 8" away from a couch?*  Another question is what to use for air intake pipe.  The manual states 2" steel, aluminum or copper may be used.  I couldn't find any 2" aluminum flex at a plumbing and heating supplyer.  *However I may be able to get some 2" electrical metal tubing, which may be the answer, any ideas?*

Oh yeah, here are some pics of it on a furniture dolly.  I plan on running double wall from the back of the stove into a through the wall thimble and a 12" section outside with a termination cap.  Another question is I have to go through a wall under the stairs first, before reaching the outside wall.  The picture should explain things better.  *Can I cut a 6" circle out of the single sheetrock layer and put the double wall pipe through the center of it?  *The wall is simply a single layer of sheetrock that makes up a closet wall.  I understand the section the pipe runs through has tyo be enclosed so the closet will have an additional wall put in as well.


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## VCBurner (Oct 17, 2011)

Please help with these questions, I want to get it done before the weekend.  Cold season is approaching soon, though we've been lucky around here so far.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 17, 2011)

Automotive parts place for the OAK material, if the electrical conduit is actually the right size that is also fine.

Are you planning on placing that stove where it is in that picture?

A bit later I'll download the install manual for that unit and read through it.  I'm sure that other folks will chime in but it might attract the attention of others who have already installed that stove if you change the title of this thread to reflect the fact you have installation questions.

Please remember that the side clearance does not apply to the front of that stove.

Edited to add, what is the distance from the outside of the house to the wall behind the stove and would you please provide a picture of the outside where the vent would come through.  I haven't found any mention on the maximum permitted horizontal run in the manual.

The 8" clearance is to any combustible so yes on that close to the couch.  I'd be more concerned about folks on the couch getting closer than the 8" though.

BTW I found an install manual that Google has made a quick view of.


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## VCBurner (Oct 17, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Automotive parts place for the OAK material, if the electrical conduit is actually the right size that is also fine.
> *Thanks smokey, I read some threads that mentioned this here too!*
> Are you planning on placing that stove where it is in that picture?
> *Yes, it'll go on a hearth pad of course. I plan on making it this week, one layer of 3/4" fire rated plywood, one layer of 5/8" cemment board, one solid 1/4" piece of slate, all sitting on top of a 2x4 platform and wrapped in oak and  makore (an african mohogany like wood.) *
> ...



*Thanks for the post Smokey!*


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 17, 2011)

I added some stuff to the prior post.  You got to it before I managed to hit the send button.

You'll likely have to come up with a pass through (thimble) for the inside wall as well I don't think that it would pass inspection if you had an open hole with a hot vent pipe through it.   That horizontal also has to have a rise in it as well.  There is a veiled warning in the installation manual that a horizontal install may not work under some conditions.


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## raybonz (Oct 17, 2011)

Hi Chris!
That stove looks new! Very nice indeed! FYI 2" EMT is much closer to 2-1/2" than it is to 2" .. Unfortunately I am not qualified to speak on the flue pipe etc.. I suggest you try also posting in Hearth room as you may get help there too.. Running my T-5 right now and I love how it burns, really nice secondaries!! Good luck with your install I look forward to the pics! BTW the Woodstock Progress Hybrid was really awesome!! It was great to meet everyone..

Ray

Edit: I just reread Smokey's post and I think he is right.. I am wondering why you chose that location rather than along an outside wall.. That would seem to be a better location will make the flue pipe easy to install.. Personally I also would be afraid someone or something would touch that hot stove if the couch is that close.. You know how kids are, next thing you know they drop a pillow or a stuffed toy or worse themselves in that 8" space.. Just my 2 cents..


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> What is the distance from the outside of the house to the wall behind the stove and would you please provide a picture of the outside where the vent would come through.  *Ok, so there is a closet under the stairs, the dimension from inside to inside of the closet is 42" add to it the 3" of clearance from back of the stove to the wall, the exterior wall itself about 5" and  a 12" section of pipe on the outside (recommended by the manual) you end up with a whoping 5'2" horizontal run before the termination cap! * I haven't found any mention on the maximum permitted horizontal run in the manual.
> 
> The 8" clearance is to any combustible so yes on that close to the couch.  I'd be more concerned about folks on the couch getting closer than the 8" though.  *My thoughts exactly, or objects such as an accent pillow falling off the thing.  It is really close, so we may end up with a chair in that space instead.  It would probably make it look better in the space and be safer at the same time.  We just bought those couches and were hoping it would work. But once I got the stove in there and saw exactly how much space the 43" between the couch and the stairwell entrance really translated into it just looks crammed.*
> BTW I found an install manual that Google has made a quick view of. *Thanks Smokey, I'll have to look it up!  The previous owner emailed me the owner's manual on PDF as well as a couple of other manuals like the service manual.  I also have the original owner's manual he gave me at the time of pick up!  He was a really nice guy and sent me home with a bag of Freedom Fuels Pellets also! The "GUY" is a class act! *:cheese:


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Hi Chris!
> That stove looks new! Very nice indeed!  *Thanks Ray*. FYI 2" EMT is much closer to 2-1/2" than it is to 2" ..* I came up with the idea from speaking to a friend electrician and asking him if he had any input.  He mentioned that 2" EMT is an oddball size on the outside dimension but the ID is 2" which is what this stove calls for.  That is correct right, 2" ID on EMT?.  *Unfortunately I am not qualified to speak on the flue pipe etc.. I suggest you try also posting in Hearth room as you may get help there too.. *You're right, I'll have to drop by with a link to the thread and see if I can get a bite from some of the guys who don't venture out of the Hearth room*.  Running my T-5 right now and I love how it burns, really nice secondaries!! *Glad things are working out with the new stove Ray, she's a beauty*!  Good luck with your install I look forward to the pics! BTW the Woodstock Progress Hybrid was really awesome!! It was great to meet everyone..
> *I wanted to go badly, but I must admit, Horseneck Beach was a dream that weekend!  You wish for days like those in July!  I haven't been around here in a couple of weeks but I did look at some pics Denis posted (one of you with Gamma and Mr. Gamma I believe,) it looked like a good time.  Maybe next year I'll be able to come up.  I bet it was nice to put a face to the avatars :lol:  I'm still in love with those Woodstocks, and what a bargain with those discount prices!  The Progress looks fantastic, but the specs so far are even more spectacular than its looks!  Those Fireviews are still stunning to me.  *
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting again my friend!


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> I added some stuff to the prior post.  You got to it before I managed to hit the send button.
> 
> You'll likely have to come up with a pass through (thimble) for the inside wall as well I don't think that it would pass inspection if you had an open hole with a hot vent pipe through it.   That horizontal also has to have a rise in it as well.  There is a veiled warning in the installation manual that a horizontal install may not work under some conditions.



I saw the statement Smokey, where they say some instalations may need a vertical run of 3-5' in order to help with natural draft of the stove to make it work.  I may find myself getting a vertical run of double wall 3" to attach to the outside with a clean out T.  I'll have to give it a shot with the horizontal run even if I have to give it a rise on its way out.  I stopped by the local Enviro dealer today but he is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, so it'll have to wait until Wednesday.  He may have some input on the particulars of the Windsor also.


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## raybonz (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
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Scroll to bottom for EMT dimensions and yes 2" EMT is close to 2" I.D.

http://home4c.com/conduit.htm

Ray


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## DonD (Oct 18, 2011)

How tall is the closet? Could you put the stove in the corner (under the picture in your 3rd pic) and run pipe up the wall and out across the ceiling of the closet? The corner might be a nice spot for the stove and it would get you some vertical rise.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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You may have misunderstood my remark about the rise, it is a very small towards the vent rise that must be in every horizontal pellet vent run.  I'll have to look it up it isn't much but under no circumstance should any pellet vent run be level or downhill.

I think the issue the manual was making reference too was back pressure, it can cause two problems overheating the combustion blower and allowing smoke to flow backwards and out the air intake.


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Scroll to bottom for EMT dimensions and yes 2" EMT is close to 2" I.D.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray


Thanks for the link Ray, that just might work.  I asked my father in law to get me a 6' section of pipe from the job site and have the guys bend a 90 on one end.  This way, all I'll have to do is put it on the stove with a 2" connector and put a screen at the end with another connector attached to secure the screen in place.  At least one problem solved, maybe.  You just never know untill it's done, I'm not cutting any wholes in the wall yet! :lol: I'm doing the hearth pad first and then after seeing the stove and pad in place I'll decide what really will happen as far as the couch and cutting up the walls.  Most likely a chair will replace the loveseat and the stove will have more room to breath and heat!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

The recommended rise on a horizontal run is 1/4" per foot of pipe.


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## DexterDay (Oct 18, 2011)

Make sure you dont exceed 5 ft horizontal. Put at least a 1/4" (1/2" is better, per ft of horizontal) of rise in the vent.

What pellet vent are you buying? Simpson, Selkirk???? 

I also wonder if that is the best location.. You need a thimble every time you pass through a wall. So 2 thimbles for 2 walls. If you do have about 5' of horizontal, I would definitely put the vertical rise in. 5 ft is a long way to rely on your combustion blower to do the work... Natural draft can be a good friend of pellet stoves.

You got an awesome deal on it. Hope all is well with the "new house" . Looks like a nice place. Hope the family is well and warm. Your gonna love pellets.. I can understand how much you might miss woodburning, but I am sure after 1 season. You will be hooked and NEED both.... Wood and Pellets...


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> You may have misunderstood my remark about the rise, it is a very small towards the vent rise that must be in every horizontal pellet vent run.  I'll have to look it up it isn't much but under no circumstance should any pellet vent run be level or downhill.
> 
> I think the issue the manual was making reference too was back pressure, it can cause two problems overheating the combustion blower and allowing smoke to flow backwards and out the air intake.



I know what you mean by having a rise on the horizontal pipe.  As with any wood stove horizontal pipes must be slightly climbing never level.  I just don't know how good it is to have a 5'2" h. run though.  The manual does not state a maximum horizontal run.  The dealer may shed some light on the subject.  I also know he may also try to sell me on something, which is always a downside of going to the dealer for advice.  Some people are willing to give advice and not try to sell though!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
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A freind is looking for just that information.  Must be patient, I wouldn't attempt it with 3" it may work with 4" but I'll wait for an answer.  It will be within specification for its EVL but frequently stove manufacturers have issues with horizontal runs.


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

DonD said:
			
		

> How tall is the closet? Could you put the stove in the corner (under the picture in your 3rd pic) and run pipe up the wall and out across the ceiling of the closet? The corner might be a nice spot for the stove and it would get you some vertical rise.


  Putting a pipe in the tallest part of the close would surely mean losing some closet space there.  By putting it at the lower end of the stairs it would mean less storage space lost.  It also means more centered in the room and closer to the center of stairwell opening, which likely translates to better heat transfer to the top floor of the house.  We just can't afford to lose any more closet space in the small bedroom.  It is the only downstairs bedroom so the wife and I took it and gave the upstairs to the boys.  As it is I'm going to make a closet for myself next to the washer and dryer in the downstairs bathroom.  It will be good, as I leave the house really early and won't wake her up before going to work looking for my clothes!


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> The recommended rise on a horizontal run is 1/4" per foot of pipe.


OK thanks Smokey, I thought I remmenbered that figure.  That would translate to a 1-1/4" rise for my situation.


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## jtakeman (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
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I found nothing in "any" on the Enviro manuals for max horizontal run. I thought it was 4 feet???? I have an email in to them.

Is there any max distance in the pipe installation manual?


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Make sure you dont exceed 5 ft horizontal. *OK, will do I can shrink the 5'2" to 5' I'm sure*.  Put at least a 1/4" (1/2" is better, per ft of horizontal) of rise in the vent.
> *I'll shoot for a 2" rise then this way it'll be better than 1/4" per foot rise.*
> What pellet vent are you buying? Simpson, Selkirk???? *I don't know what kind of pipe I have yet, my father in law is giving me his double wall pipe he recently acquired, he said he has a termination cap, a 36" expandable section?, a 20" section, a 90, and a thimble.  I'll have to decide tomorrow if I'll need some more things (another thimble being a great possibility.)*
> 
> ...



Thanks for the words DD, I'll have fun learning a new way to be warm and with people such as you and others on this site it'll be an easier learning curve.  
Burn on!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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None that I've found other than the EVL considerations, it really comes down to what the manufacturer says in order to be code compliant, that is what I'm concerned about, you know doting the i  and crossing the t .   Hey it takes me a long time to play with things that have fire in them, been around to long not to have a lot of respect for that which can either keep us warm or kill us.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

BTW VCBurner, j-takeman does his homework and knows a more than a little bit about these here pellet eaters.


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> I found nothing in "any" on the Enviro manuals for max horizontal run. I thought it was 4 feet???? I have an email in to them.
> 
> Is there any max distance in the pipe installation manual?



Thanks J, I'll have to look into the pipe manufacturer's recommendations, the Enviro dealer may also be of some help decifering this riddle.  He'll be open again on Wednesday, I'll put off any major decisions until then.  If anyone knows for sure please let me know.

 Can't wait to get her going though, she looks so cold and dark now! :lol:


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> BTW VCBurner, j-takeman does his homework and knows a more than a little bit about these here pellet eaters.


 :lol: I tend to take the advice of people such as you and J, who have thousands of posts.  You had to do a great deal of reading and writing about these things to get there.  Most people around here have shared lots of essential information that I had to soak in the past couple of years.  I love this site and respect its members and their opinions.  This is a helpfull community!  

Thanks again guys!


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## DexterDay (Oct 18, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> BTW VCBurner, j-takeman does his homework and knows a more than a little bit about these here pellet eaters.



Yep... I say 5' max (that is a lot of Manufacturers max) but that Does NOT mean it is the recommendation of Enviro.  Jay has an email out, then wait for an answer. He does know more about stoves than almost all of the dealers around me (except one and he knows who he is)


Still a great stove at a great price. You and your family will enjoy for many years.


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
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Thanks again DD,

I'll wait for the reply to J's email, in the meantime I'll try to do a little legwork myself and also get the hearth pad ready.  I have another hearth pad but it was one that came with the Defiant Encore  and it would be way too big for the windsor.  It'll give me something to do so I don't have to sit and stare at the cold stove! :lol:


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 18, 2011)

VC Burner threads are thorough! I'm looking forward to another Dutchwest Diary-Like thread on this thing. Although, I should be upset with him since I never even got a PM tipping me off to the fact that he was selling his Encore...

Looking forward to more posts on the Pellet adventure.


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Please help with these questions, I want to get it done before the weekend.  Cold season is approaching soon, though we've been lucky around here so far.



I've been thinking about this installation. Personally, I don't like the location. It looks wrong and the sofa looks crammed into the corner. Also, it will be too easy for someone on that sofa to inadvertently reach over to a hot stove side or top. Have you considered moving the sofa over to the left so that you could do a corner install? That looks safer and I think the placement would look more visually correct there. Not sure about what venting complications this would present.


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## BIGISLANDHIKERS (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ok, so the stove has come home.  Thank you to Enviro for the kindness and understanding of my situation.  Thanks to those who posted the opinions on this thread helping me to make a decision.
> I'm now on the installation stage which I want to complete by the end of the week if possible.  My questions are, I have just enough clearance to the sides of the stove to combustibles.  There are 8" on both sides but I'm not convinced it'll be enough.  Maybe it's just the lack of experience with pellet stoves.  *Is it ok to put the stove 8" away from a couch?*  Another question is what to use for air intake pipe.  The manual states 2" steel, aluminum or copper may be used.  I couldn't find any 2" aluminum flex at a plumbing and heating supplyer.  *However I may be able to get some 2" electrical metal tubing, which may be the answer, any ideas?*
> 
> Oh yeah, here are some pics of it on a furniture dolly.  I plan on running double wall from the back of the stove into a through the wall thimble and a 12" section outside with a termination cap.  Another question is I have to go through a wall under the stairs first, before reaching the outside wall.  The picture should explain things better.  *Can I cut a 6" circle out of the single sheetrock layer and put the double wall pipe through the center of it?  *The wall is simply a single layer of sheetrock that makes up a closet wall.  I understand the section the pipe runs through has tyo be enclosed so the closet will have an additional wall put in as well.




So the pipe going under the stairs will be enclosed?   Thats alot of horizontal.  Also, seems like it would be alot less work to find a spot on an exterior wall to vent.

BIH


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## jtakeman (Oct 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> j-takeman said:
> 
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Chris,

The message I got was anything over 4 feet isn't recommended. 2 feet is the preferred standard with a stove that has 3" outlet dia. The 4 foot would be for something with a 4" pipe dia. The Windsor has a 3" oulet AFAIK. So you would be looking for problems at that length of run.

Personally I would look at the exterior wall even if it has windows. If you terminate(cap/outlet location) 4 feet from the windows you should be good to go. Pipe can run near the windows with no issues, Just can't have the outlet near them. Cost would be more in pipe, But the install would be less trouble some. I would also seal any joints that are near any window for safety sake.

Someone stated you need a thimble at each wall pass thru. 100% correct, You can't just cut the sheet rock and run the pipe thru it. Serious code violation and will not pass inspection. The price for the extra thimble gets you some extra pipe so it seems close to a wash IMHO. I'd also worry that things would get shoved next to the pipe inside the closet. A sure fire hazzard if you didn't box it in!

Keep us posted.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

Thanks for running that horizontal run question down Jay.

Now I'm going to ask a question, what is directly above your proposed location (and just so you understand I'm not in any way a fan of holes in a roof etc.. , just covering the bases) ?


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the research!  *Smokey*, to answer your question:
Above the location there is a small bedroom, which is my 11 y.o's. room.  Running pipe up would mean wholes all over the rental house.  Two ceilings a floor and a roof.  The room is small as it is and the landlady wouldn't go for that much change made to the house, including a possible chase in that bedroom! 

*j-takeman*, the other exterior wall is the front of the house.  It has three windows and a front door as well as baseboard heat running almost the entire length of the wall.  As far as the first wall I'm going through I plan on putting a thimble in it as well realizing that a whole probably wouldn't do.  The run from the back of the stove to the exterior of the house will be exactly 4'2", I will then add a 90 to that and run 5feet of pipe to the top of it adding to the natural draft of the gasses.   As far as the pipe going through the closet, it'll be boxed in.  I'm building a knee wall under the stairs to completely block off the lower section of the closet under the stairs.  Thanks for the question, *BIGISLANDHIKERS.* I agree with you *BeGreen* about the loveseat being too close to the stove.  It does not look good esthetically.  The manual also states 8" to a combustible "sidewall" not a sofa where a throw pillow can easily fall off and wedge itself agaist a burning stove.  So I'm pretty convinced that it would be better to have a small chair there, where if a pillow were to fall it would not hit the stove.  I'm thinking a small recliner or rocker/ottoman chair.  The recliner I found looks like a wingback chair but is probably too expensive to purchase right now.  The rocker is comfortable, cheaper ($139) and an easy to move solution, I could place elsewhere in the home if we were to decide to purchase my recliner later on.  Unfortunatelly, the corner install is out of the question due to the closet space it would be killing.  I do agree it would be more esthetically pleasing.  We were originally set on having the entire wall for the stove, but once the new sofas arived we decided to put one there and it has become a preferred sitting space, so having a chair there would be great.  The previous owner also had this stove next to a sofa in his livingroom (look @ original post for a pic of it.)  


*Thank you all for the insightful advice and research.  I knew I could count on folks around here to help me make a good decision. * Please fell free to continue the questions and answers on this topic, it'll only help someone in the longrun.  I'll include a couple of pics of the outside of the house, I think Smokey had asked about it.  The pipe is going to come out about 2'6" above the bottom of the siding and around centered between the basement entrance door and the telephone module (small gray box just to the left of the meter.)


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> VC Burner threads are thorough! I'm looking forward to another Dutchwest Diary-Like thread on this thing. Although, I should be upset with him since I never even got a PM tipping me off to the fact that he was selling his Encore...
> 
> Looking forward to more posts on the Pellet adventure.


   :lol: Oops! 
BrowninBAR, I hope this will become another informative thread that will serve as a guide to others looking to install/run the same stove, or like stoves.  So to this end I will post all negative/positive results trying to be as unbiased as possible.  

As far as the Encore, I never even saw any money for it, brother! :wow:   However, my inlaws did buy us a washer and dryer set totalling $1300 in exchange for the stove!  My wife does laundry more than ever now :lol:  so we here are all winners on this one!  The laundry room is right next to the kitchen too, where she tends to spend lots of time making us delicious family dinners!    Things seem to really be falling together now, despite the sudden move and all things generated by it!

Take care! Burn on!


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## jtakeman (Oct 18, 2011)

I'd be sure to check the pipe for ash collecting on a regular basis.


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## VCBurner (Oct 18, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> I'd be sure to check the pipe for ash collecting on a regular basis.


  Good idea, I had thought about putting an access hatch into the block off wall.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 18, 2011)

Remember with your proposed venting you'll be both at the EVL limits for 3" pipe (I hope your pipe will be 4") and exceeding the manufacturers maximum recommended horizontal run.

Keep an eye on the burn pot for pile up as well as the horizontal run for ash build up.


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## BIGISLANDHIKERS (Oct 19, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> j-takeman said:
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You will still need a way to clean out the horizontal.  ideally this needs to be done without taking the pipe apart.


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## VCBurner (Oct 19, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Remember with your proposed venting you'll be both at the EVL limits for 3" pipe (I hope your pipe will be 4") and exceeding the manufacturers maximum recommended horizontal run.
> 
> Keep an eye on the burn pot for pile up as well as the horizontal run for ash build up.



Ok will do, thanks Smokey!  I was supposed to pick up the pipes and hearth materials yesterday, but my father in law ended up working overtime and we could not meet because I had a soccer team to coach at 5pm.  
I'll be going to my grandfather in law's house to pick it up today.  He lives half way between us.  My FIL dropped off the material there after work last night.  We are now an hour away from my in laws due to a recent move.  They live close to the souther border of Mass and Rhode Island, we live close to the Mass/New Hampshire line.

My wife does not like the idea of a gray stove on a solid gray slate, so we'll pick up a box of tyle to make a hearth.


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## VCBurner (Oct 19, 2011)

BIGISLANDHIKERS said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
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Clean out T on the outside work?  
Otherwise I'll take the elbow off from the outside and stick a brush and vac hose in the pipe.  
What would you recommend?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 19, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> BIGISLANDHIKERS said:
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A double might be better, it is hard to get the horizontal with the "standard" T.

I don't have any issues getting to my horizontal because at the stove after the adapter is my T so there is just a very short length which I get from either the inside by removing the combustion blower or from the outside by means of a leaf vacuum (ye old leaf blower trick).   The short horizontal that goes through the wall is a piece of cake from the outside.

I try to avoid uncapping the T because it is a pain in the hind quarters to get back together.

If you have decent vent pipe, removing the 90 degree elbow might not be a problem.  While you must have smoke tight joints inside the house, outside it can be a different matter (even there due to possibly operating at vent limits it is best they be smoke tight all the way to the termination).

Your call, I'm old, the bending, standing on the head, and body contortions just doesn't work like it used to ;-).


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## VCBurner (Oct 19, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> A double might be better, it is hard to get the horizontal with the "standard" T.


I'm not familiar with a double.  I'll have to look it up.  If you have an image could you send it to me?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 19, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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You have a PM ....


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## jtakeman (Oct 19, 2011)

I love my double tee. I can clean the pipe going outside and what is connected to the stove without removing and resealing pipes. A little tape on the tee caps and I am back in business. Worth the $160 and change IMHO.


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## VCBurner (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks Smokey for the PM!

Thanks J for the immage.  

I went to the dealer and he was unloading a load of pellets so he didn't have a lot of time to talk.  I find it funny that he was closed on Monday and Tuesday and was not available when I got there this morning.  I understand as a small business owner he does not have a ton of $ to play with additional payroll but man!  It makes you feel like your business is not necessary when you are there to look up things you may need and the owner doesn't have time for you despite being on the premises.  

He was not aware of a double T clean out, nor was he helpful with the particulars of the Windsor which is only 8 years old and has been replaced by the Empress model which he sells.  I was not really surprised.  Disappointed maybe, it would be good to establish a relationship with the dealer of your brand stove who is located 15 minutes away from your home.  I may return there for some things.  He did say he would order me a piece of glass from his glass dealer for a lower price than Enviro wants ($180,) I told him I could get it myself for $90 off the internet so he'd have to beat or at least come really close to that. 
*Anyone have a connection for glass?*


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## VCBurner (Oct 20, 2011)

Ok so the pipes i had are Simpson, 3" sections.  I bought $180 worth of pipe for the outside from the dealer.  What i purchased was a 5' section, two 45's (he was out of 90's), wall bracket and an appliance adaptor. These were purchased in addition to the 3', 1' and slip pipe I had.   I thought it was a pretty good deal?  He gave me about 10% discount from his prices.  He was very helpful with the pipes.  The 2" conduit for the air intake is also here, as well as firecode plywood, durock, mortar, tyle and grout. I'll post pics as soon as the instal is under way.

I did not purchase the double T with its $180cost it was just more than I could spend right now.  We also purchased the tyle and grout last night. 

 So far I've spent $900 on the stove, $210 in hearth and vent related material.  I'm into it $1110 this season.  Not a bad deal for a stove nearly 10 feet of simpson 3" pellet pipe with adaptor, termination cap, thimble, a 90 and two 45's.  Tube of silicone, mortar caulking, tyle, firecode plywood, durock and 5' of 2" conduit.

The best price I could find for the 18.5" x 13.5" x 5mm glass was just over $90 on line.  The dealer is going to see how much he can get it for.  Please feel free if anyone has a good connection for stove glass.

Sorry, the pics were last minute and one is on the side leaves, I mean lawn and the other is infront of the side door of the house.  Just so you could see the pipes and vent material.  I'll post some more pics during the installation process.


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## jtakeman (Oct 20, 2011)

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.


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## raybonz (Oct 20, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ok so the pipes i had are Simpson, 3" sections.  I bought $180 worth of pipe for the outside from the dealer.  What i purchased was a 5' section, two 45's (he was out of 90's), wall bracket and an appliance adaptor. These were purchased in addition to the 3', 1' and slip pipe I had.   I thought it was a pretty good deal?  He gave me about 10% discount from his prices.  He was very helpful with the pipes.  The 2" conduit for the air intake is also here, as well as firecode plywood, durock, mortar, tyle and grout. I'll post pics as soon as the instal is under way.
> 
> I did not purchase the double T with its $180cost it was just more than I could spend right now.  We also purchased the tyle and grout last night.
> 
> ...



Good pics Chris! So what's the final verdict venting through 2 walls to the outside? I didn't see the final answer if was OK to do or not.. 

Ray


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## imacman (Oct 20, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.



I agree.


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## DexterDay (Oct 20, 2011)

imacman said:
			
		

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Yep. Less internal seams also means less restriction for the gases/fly ash. Its a lot of horizontal, the vertical may help a little, by creating some natural draft.  Which is better than just the straight shot. Definitely make sure you clean the vent often. As fly ash will quickly build up in there. While you are spending the money, I would buy a leaf blower (leaf vacuum) and clean the stove before you even fire it. I know Forum member Enviro (previous owner) prob kept it well cleaned. But I would do it,  for 2 reasons. It will give you some practice and let you know the ins and outs of the unit and also give you the peace of mind, that it is all cleaned up and all the motors have been blown off, lubed, and squirrel cages and combustion blower fins are all ready for the season..

I see you already have the "Bug" for the stove.. Pellet stoves can be very enjoyable. If kept maintained properly.  If not, it will be like burning fresh cut OAK in a modern EPA woodstove. You will have terrible results.

As you have burned for several years, I can only imagine that you already know , all to well, that if you take care of it, it will yake care of you... 

Congrats again on your stove, and now your venting, and soon to be Hearth. 

Wont be long now......


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.



I thought about that, but I needed a slip pipe in the horizontal in order to make the distance work with the least amount of horizontal length.  I needed 51 inches from back of stove to outside of house.  The pipe has to be 3" from the house.  Total horizontal from back of stove to outside of vertical run pipe (side closest to the house)= 54 inches, including part of the 90.  The horizontal run is actually made up of this: adaptor, one foot piece, three foot piece, slip pipe then the 90.  It just looks like different colors because a part of the three foot pipe used to be on the outside of a house so it actually looks like three  different colors: one that was exposed inside the house,one was inside the thimble the other part of it was exposed to the weather.  I wanted to buy a 4' piece to put inside the house but the dealer didn't have any 4' sections.  So I kept the used 3' and 1' sec. inside as well as the used slip pipe.  Did I talk myself in circles and confuse everyone yet?   :roll: I confused myself!  LOL!

If I switch the 5 foot piece to the inside I'll actually gain about 10 inches in horizontal run it would be 63 inches as opposed to 54.  from back of stove to side of vertical pipe, including the bend of the elbow.  


I'll take some more pictures of the sections of pipe separately so everyone can see more clearly what's really going on.  I might repaint the interior pipes so that they look new.  Although only 3" of it will actually be exposed to the living space.  The outdoor pipe may stay silver, unless i can find some high temp paint in the color of the house so it blends in more.


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Good pics Chris! So what's the final verdict venting through 2 walls to the outside? I didn't see the final answer if was OK to do or not..
> 
> Ray



Yep!  It was 4 feet max according to J-takeman's reply.  So I ended up with a few inches of extra horizontal with 50" from back of stove to outside of exterior wall.  Adding a 90 on the outside and a 5 foot piece of vertical pipe should help with the natural draft.  It was on the manual that some installations would do better with this vert. run.  I figured mine would fall into that category with the long horizontal.  Thanks for following this thread Ray, good to see some of the woodies from the hearth room venture out of the box.  I'll have to check out your profile for recent pics of the new T-5.  Sweet looking stoves!

I've got my work cut out, for the next couple of days, if I want to see this thing in action this weekend.  Hearth pad first. Then while the mortar is drying I'll do the pipes then the grout.  I figure sometime on Sunday I'll be able to have a finished product.  Too bad we have three soccer games, a soccer clinic and spring try outs on Sunday.  It'll be nice to get home and set it up.  It'll probably be Monday before I see flames  :long:


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

Take your time Chris,  no need to hurry, no major cold spell coming (yet).


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## jtakeman (Oct 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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I know your splitting inches and trying to stay with as little horizontal as possible. One thing is you don't want any joints inside the thimble. So You can't use part of the 90Âº elbow. Maybe grab a 6" piece to be sure that doesn't happen. and still have less joints in the house. Still also need another thimble for the second wall the pipe passes thru.

Seeing your EVL is already at 17.5 whats another 1.25 added?


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Take your time Chris,  no need to hurry, no major cold spell coming (yet).


I hear you Smokey, we've been lucky thus far.  It's just the pyro in me that wants to see the flames going.  At least I know everything is ready to be put in.  I wont rest until I see my coffee cup sitting on top of it staying warm! :lol:


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> I know your splitting inches and trying to stay with as little horizontal as possible. One thing is you don't want any joints inside the thimble. So You can't use part of the 90Âº elbow. Maybe grab a 6" piece to be sure that doesn't happen. and still have less joints in the house. Still also need another thimble for the second wall the pipe passes through.
> 
> Seeing your EVL is already at 17.5 whats another 1.25 added?



J, what are those numbers 17.5 and what's an EVL?  Forgive my ignorance.  The slip pipe will actually be going through the thimble I need a bit of it to be sticking outside in order to have the 3" from outside of house to vertical pipe.  No seams inside the thimble.  I'm cutting out a section of the single layer of drywall that makes the closet wall and replacing it with a slab of 1/4" slate.  The wife didn't like the slate for a hearth so we bought some ceramic tyle (sandstone color.)  Now the slate will serve as a fireproof backdrop to the stove.  I'll cut out a whole into the slate for the pipe to go through, then slide a collar over the pipe and sit it on the slate rear wall!


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## jtakeman (Oct 21, 2011)

EVL = Equivalent Vent Length

Every piece of pipe has a rating:
1 Ft. horizontal = 1
1 Ft. Vertical = .5
45 degree bend = 2.5
90 degree = 5

On 3â€ pipe, anything that adds up to more than 15 EVL needs to be increased to 4â€ pipe, up to a max of about 33.


I think this is why Enviro suggests 4 feet of Horz. Once you start adding tee's and elbows its easy to go higher than excepted. Maybe rethink this and go with 4 inch vent(I think smokey said it first). 17.5 is probably going to give lazy burns and require frequently cleaning of the flue.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> EVL = Equivalent Vent Length
> 
> Every piece of pipe has a rating:
> 1 Ft. horizontal = 1
> ...



I have a nose for limits, sometimes you can get away with a bit of excess sometimes you can't.  It will depend upon the strength of that Enviro combustion blower.


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## jtakeman (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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75 to 80 CFM. is probably max on it. Knowing first hand an empress(newer version of the windsor) struggled with 17. I'm very nervous he'll have problems! You know me bear, I usually site back unless I see something I feel uneasy with.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test.   If it flies he's good to go, just watch the clearance to doors, and the vegetation.

ETA: I am not a fan of this manner of venting but when push comes to shove if it works it works.


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## smoke show (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test.



I agree why increase EVL if not needed.
horizontal vents can work fine.


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test.   If it flies he's good to go, just watch the clearance to doors, and the vegetation.
> 
> ETA: I am not a fan of this manner of venting but when push comes to shove if it works it works.



So if that's the case, then I had enough to vent straight out in the first place. :lol:   If I knew you guys felt this way I wouldn't have spent the $180 on the pipes yesterday.  .  If that works, I'll go back and return the pipes and grab a ton of his pellets instead.  

I thought the straight run would really help!  It sounds more like it'll become a hinderance.  Increasing EVL thus increasing the difficulty of pushing the exhaust out does not sound like a good idea.


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## jtakeman (Oct 21, 2011)

Look at it this way, We got you a 1 piece "no joint" leak reducer.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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Now don't go getting all excited, you have to check your clearances on the straight run first, you may not have the required clearance to that door, I can't tell from the picture.  Even then things may not work, you are just over the limit on horizontal pipe.

The addition of vertical pipe is to setup a natural draft to handle power outages (that is the smoke test I was referring to, at least you are OAKing the stove, the smoke test saying goes if it smokes you must OAK, I hope Eviro's OAK setup is is a good one).  If the addition puts you over limit then you use 4" starting at the stove.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Look at it this way, We got you a 1 piece "no joint" leak reducer.



x2 but I'd still want it to be 4"  ...

I think Chris has a bad case of Pyro withdrawal.  You can just see him down on his knees putting a match to the pellets in the burn pot ;-) .


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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LMAO! :lol: I really appreciate all the help here guys.  It sure is a bummer to find out things aren't as perfect as you'd think.  This is just part of my growing pains with the new pellet heat.  But I'd much rather go into it informed than not know at all!! 

As far as the EVL and all, I believe the prior owner had a full outside vertical run going beyond his roof, like a chimney (he said it worked better with it.)  And what about those who run a full liner 20-30feet inside a masonry chimney?  Don't they fall into the over EVL category?  I can't see flex pipe being easier than the rigid double wall for the smoke to go through.  At least the walls of the double wall are somewhat smooth.


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Now don't go getting all excited, you have to check your clearances on the straight run first, you may not have the required clearance to that door, I can't tell from the picture.  Even then things may not work, you are just over the limit on horizontal pipe.



The measurement from the cap to the corner of the door wold be about 4"6".  The pipe would be quite a bit higher than the door about the level of the electrical box or a bit more.  Then the diagonal measurement from cap to corner of door is OK.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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Some of them do and hopefully they are using a 4" liner.

On 3" you can have a TEE (EVL = 5) and 20' of vertical before reaching the magic 15 so vertical straight up (leak makers. god how I hate holes in a roof) work in almost all situations (there are some stoves that have problems with lower EVLs).

The limit on 4" would allow a TEE and several stories of vertical.


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

If I just went with a straight run and no vertical  do I still need an appliance adaptor or can I just stick the pipe on it?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> If I just went with a straight run and no vertical  do I still need an appliance adaptor or can I just stick the pipe on it?



You need the adapter.


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## smoke show (Oct 21, 2011)

^^^^^^^^  what he said.


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Ok that's what I thought!


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## VCBurner (Oct 21, 2011)

smoke show said:
			
		

> ^^^^^^^^  what he said.


Thanks for the replies Smoke Show!  I can use all the help I can get!


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## save$ (Oct 21, 2011)

OK, after all that chat,  I hope your camera is working and you plan to put some pic's in here for the rest of us!    Good luck with the install.  You got the advice of the pros.   Now, show us the heat :cheese:


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## VCBurner (Oct 22, 2011)

save$ said:
			
		

> OK, after all that chat,  I hope your camera is working and you plan to put some pic's in here for the rest of us!    Good luck with the install.  You got the advice of the pros.   Now, show us the heat :cheese:



Thanks brother, I can't wait to be able to put up some pics.  I started the hearth pad today, which meant setting up my tools in the new basement.  It took quite a bit of time just to lay out the pyro-guard plywood with the tyle to make sure the corner angles are going to work out perfectly, the hearth pad will look very similar to the one on the Enviro Empress flyer.  With some minor differences.  I started the base of the pad as well after cutting out the plywood.  The bottom of the platform pad will have 1x4 makore (african cherry like wood.) I started to put it on today.  Installing the pipes will be easier  than the building of the pad.  It'll be a joy to light it up for the first time.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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Look forward to the finished product! You should be ready just in time for the heating season..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Oct 23, 2011)

Ok, so here's what I've got so far.  The pyro-guard plywood is 3'x3' with cut outs in the front corners.  The base is Makore.  On top is Durock.  The sandstone 12x12" tyle is almost all cut and dry-fit on top of the pad.  The second member of the trim is just a temporary form like piece.  After I mortar in the tyle and it dries, I'll wrap it in the Makore and add a nosing to the whole edge.  It was actually pretty fun setting up the tools in the new house.  I'm taking my time with it and trying to enjoy this time spent making something that'll last for years to come.  Today was a full day, we went to a farm to get the boys some pumpkins and had a halloween hayride party from 6:30-8:30 this evening.  You gotta love fall!  Here are some pics!

I even had someone on firewatch for this project! :lol:


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## jtakeman (Oct 23, 2011)

Cute little fellow!

I haven't seen pyro-guard plywood so I am learning something too! Looking good so far!

P.S.
Your work bench is neater than mine but only by a little! :cheese:


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 23, 2011)

You had a busy day from the looks and sounds of things.


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## VCBurner (Oct 23, 2011)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Cute little fellow!
> 
> I haven't seen pyro-guard plywood so I am learning something too! Looking good so far!
> 
> ...



Thanks J,

 The pad will be very heavy when finished and I'm hoping will last a long time! Pyro-guard is usually used in commercial construction, we deal with it a lot.  My father-n-law grabbed this 1/2 sheet of 3/4 from his job, seeing as I'm laid off now. As well as the 2" EMT from the electricians and some sheetrock I'm using to block off the pipe inside the closet.  It's one of the benefits of being a carpenter, sometimes it works against you, you just have to learn not to hoard material.   :lol: 

The bench is a disaster  ;-) but I wanted to put it to use to try to get it done.   Maybe after this project I'll set it up right!  There's a workspace in the detached garage as well, but the dirt floor makes it a less feasible workshop.


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## VCBurner (Oct 23, 2011)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> You had a busy day from the looks and sounds of things.



It was great, dusting off the tools and doing fall related family fun!


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## DexterDay (Oct 23, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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Hay rides and Pumpkin Patches are a Great time for both us adults and the kids. 

Hearth looks great. The Windsor should look great on there.


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## raybonz (Oct 23, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ok, so here's what I've got so far.  The pyro-guard plywood is 3'x3' with cut outs in the front corners.  The base is Makore.  On top is Durock.  The sandstone 12x12" tyle is almost all cut and dry-fit on top of the pad.  The second member of the trim is just a temporary form like piece.  After I mortar in the tyle and it dries, I'll wrap it in the Makore and add a nosing to the whole edge.  It was actually pretty fun setting up the tools in the new house.  I'm taking my time with it and trying to enjoy this time spent making something that'll last for years to come.  Today was a full day, we went to a farm to get the boys some pumpkins and had a halloween hayride party from 6:30-8:30 this evening.  You gotta love fall!  Here are some pics!
> 
> I even had someone on firewatch for this project! :lol:



That's gonna look great Chris! I didn't know they made Pyro-guard plywood.. I know there are chimicals that will inhibit flammable materials from burning once the heat source is removed in fact I wear clothes like that for work.. That is gonna be one pretty pellet stove when it gets done! Look forward to your pics and experiences plus comparisons between wood and pellets..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

Hello again,

Boy am I glad this stove is finally hooked up.  There are about 18 inches of snow outside!  Just in time for the October Noreaster.  I figured I'd post a few pics for everyone to see the finished product.  I'll be back here tomorrow to discuss the entire instal.  There are questions to ask and comparisons I have to make!  But my inlaws came to spend the night and we're making a weekend out of it.  There will be pumpkin carving and hot totties.  Except no fall fire like we usually do!  We'll have to go out for a snowman and snowball fight instead! :lol: HO HO HO!

Here are some pics of the finished hearth pad and some from the first fire this afternoon.  My little guy was putting his hands in front of the stove expecting hot air as soon as it lit up.  He said: "Dad, I really liked our other stove!"  It was only until the thing got crancking, the temp went from 61 to 77 in a hurry in the room where the stove is located!  Yikes!  Had to turn it way low and it kept at a good 69 degrees in here.  There is some smoke build up on the glass!  I'll have to figure out why!  Anyways, thank you for all the great advice, hope you're enjoying the snow!  If you're around here anyway! (79 degrees in Key west right now, low of 28 here tonight :exclaim: )


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 30, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hello again,
> 
> Boy am I glad this stove is finally hooked up.  There are about 18 inches of snow outside!  Just in time for the October Noreaster.  I figured I'd post a few pics for everyone to see the finished product.  I'll be back here tomorrow to discuss the entire instal.  There are questions to ask and comparisons I have to make!  But my inlaws came to spend the night and we're making a weekend out of it.  There will be pumpkin carving and hot totties.  Except no fall fire like we usually do!  We'll have to go out for a snowman and snowball fight instead! :lol: HO HO HO!
> 
> Here are some pics of the finished hearth pad and some from the first fire this afternoon.  My little guy was putting his hands in front of the stove expecting hot air as soon as it lit up.  He said: "Dad, I really liked our other stove!"  It was only until the thing got crancking, the temp went from 61 to 77 in a hurry in the room where the stove is located!  Yikes!  Had to turn it way low and it kept at a good 69 degrees in here.  There is some smoke build up on the glass!  I'll have to figure out why!  Anyways, thank you for all the great advice, hope you're enjoying the snow!  If you're around here anyway! (79 degrees in Key west right now, low of 28 here tonight :exclaim: )




Well, you got that up and running just in time. Nice hearth pad. It turned out real nice. How's the heat from that thing and how does it differ in terms of heat and heat movement from the DW you ran?


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Well, you got that up and running just in time. Nice hearth pad. It turned out real nice. How's the heat from that thing and how does it differ in terms of heat and heat movement from the DW you ran?



Pfeew! You said it brother, I was outside screwing off a wall bracket to the pipes while my son held the pipe on the ladder, the snow was coming down hard!  Thanks browning, that hearth pad took a long time and effort to make.  The heat is amazing, so much of it can be had so easily!  Effortless!  I can turn it way don to keep it 69 or put it up a couple of notches and get it to 72.  The wood stove had a lot more highs and lows and it was a lot more labor intensive.  The nice thing about it is you can have intense heat coming from the tubes but the sides are only warm to the touch!  The wood stove would be untouchable before it could throw that much heat.  It sure is safer for the kids to have around the house.  A bit noisy though.  Way louder than the blower
on the DW.  But the blower on it is a lot more efficient than the Dw as far as air movement.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 30, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
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How many square feet is the new place and how many square feet is the Windsor rated for?


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## DexterDay (Oct 30, 2011)

Wow... looks great. Love the raised hearth. And x100 on being safer for kids. The glass and a little steel is all that gets hot on most models. The top of mine I could sit on (nothing but hopper underneath)..

May you get many years of enjoyment from that stove. Pellets stoves have a smaller hole needed for the wall and are less invasive than the large hole from a woodstove. So no matter where you move, it can come along..

Fine looking lad you have in the one pic... I only have 2 (10 yr old Son and a 5 month old Daughter) and they are what makes life worth livin. Keep your family warm and congrats again. Been a long time comin from when you made the 1st post about this stove. Good thread, lots of info and links. Enjoy.


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## raybonz (Oct 30, 2011)

Chris great job on the hearth and the stove looks great! Your family will be nice and warm now  By the looks of it your boys love it as much as you do! We got a dusting of snow here which is very rare this early.. Thanx for all the info and great posts!

Good luck!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> How many square feet is the new place and how many square feet is the Windsor rated for?


The place is almost 1600 stove is rated to heat 1600.  It should do just fine except it'll burn fuel at a rapid pace in the coldest nights of January(this stove burns up to 4 lbs/hour on high, 1 lb on low.)  Once I hook it up to a thermostat, I'll set it on high and let it rip.  It'll shut off when up to temp and turn on when the thermostat calls for heat.  Right now it is on manual, on the third (of five) settings and the house was at 72 all night with a low of 28 degrees.


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Chris great job on the hearth and the stove looks great! Your family will be nice and warm now  By the looks of it your boys love it as much as you do! We got a dusting of snow here which is very rare this early.. Thanx for all the info and great posts!
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Ray


Ray you would not believe if it wasn't all over the news!  We had 22 inches here.  It is a bonafied Noereaster that would stand up to any winter snow storm.  It'll go down in history with snow storm of May 1977, and the December ice storm of 2008.  There are 650,000 people out of power, luckily we didn't lose power, but our old town of Paxton did.  Surprising, since we got the most accumulation in the state here in Templeton.  I love having this stove going, yesterday was a good day... first fire... everyone was happy and warm.  

Thanks again for the replies!


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Wow... looks great. Love the raised hearth. And x100 on being safer for kids. The glass and a little steel is all that gets hot on most models. The top of mine I could sit on (nothing but hopper underneath)..
> 
> May you get many years of enjoyment from that stove. Pellets stoves have a smaller hole needed for the wall and are less invasive than the large hole from a woodstove. So no matter where you move, it can come along..
> 
> Fine looking lad you have in the one pic... I only have 2 (10 yr old Son and a 5 month old Daughter) and they are what makes life worth livin. Keep your family warm and congrats again. Been a long time comin from when you made the 1st post about this stove. Good thread, lots of info and links. Enjoy.



Thanks Dexter, for the kind reply and all the advice you've given.  You were instrumental in the purchase of this stove.  As you can see all the hard work was worth it just in time for our Noreaster.  The kids are loving it.  Our boys are 11, 10, 8, 5 and five months.  The inlaws slept over last night so we can carve pumpkins and do our last fall get together before Thanksgiving.  They are equally impressed with the stove.  My FIL just recently purchased an Earth Pellet Stove in black enamel and he can't wait to put it in now!  He also aqcuired my Defiant Encore cat in blue enamel.  He wants to have the wood stove upstairs and the pellet downstairs.  Wood stoves are nice during power outages.  I for one am happily warm and glad I purchased this stove, it'll be a blessing this winter!

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention, my FIL brought over a few bags of Maine Woods as a stove warming gift! :lol:  They seem to do the job, but I don't know the difference yet.  Glass is a bit smokey.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 30, 2011)

Looks great there Chris.

Now it is time to rearrange the furniture and enjoy the heat.


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## DexterDay (Oct 30, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Glad you like it. Also glad "Enviro" (PO) took great care of it. Looks awesome.

Sounds like you have a happy and Warm family. Enjoy....


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

oldmountvernon said:
			
		

> Dont know if anyone told you yet, But you forgot the stove  pipe hole


LMAO! :lol:  It took me a while to get it, but it finally sunk in.  The installation of the stove was a breeze compared to the building of the hearth.  It was so heavy, that my wife was unable to hold one end while bringing it up the basement stairs.  I had to lift the thing myself, to get it up the awkward stairs I had to go one step at a time because the head room on the stairs is so low.  The thing must weigh over 150 pounds! :ahhh:


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## DonD (Oct 30, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks great! Very nice job with the hearth pad. I agree about the time it took for the hearth pad. Mine took a couple of weeks and the whole rest of the stove and outside venting was done in about a day and a half.

Final assembly while the snow was coming down!  :ahhh: I thought I cut it close getting mine running Monday.


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

I need to make some observations:  

The pellets got stuck on the creeces of the hopper on their way down into the shoot overnight.  I'm sure this is a common occurrance.  Note to self, make sure the hopper is full and shake the pellets down the hopper before going to bed.  It's surprising that the hopper is not more rounded in the corners.  It created a sort of funnel of pellets gathering on the edges of the hopper and looked like pellet feeding was a bit slowed down by that.  

The glass got quite a bit dirty yesterday and it was quite warm here this morning so I shut the stove off while doing snow removal.  The 22 inches of snow, (did I say that already?) were quite heavy and took a while to clean up.  While cleaning up the glass with a damp cloth and fine ash I found the glass to be lose and the gasket on the glass is about 1.5 inches short at the seam.  I'll have to check out how these stoves are supposed to be gasketed, it doesn't seem to have anything holding the glass to the door beside some gasket cemment.  My wood stoves had some sort of fastener device.  This seems to rely on gasket cemment to do the job?  I found quite a bit of ash had started to gather everywhere around the burn pot and even on the door gasket.  The cast iron door rattles sometimes also.  I wonder if anyone ever tried to come up with solutions to the noise level of these things.  Let me know if you have any pointers.  I'll report as soon as I find out how to make it quieter.  Maybe some high temp silicone around all the metal to metal overlaps around the motors and such...


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## VCBurner (Oct 30, 2011)

DonD said:
			
		

> Looks great! Very nice job with the hearth pad. I agree about the time it took for the hearth pad. Mine took a couple of weeks and the whole rest of the stove and outside venting was done in about a day and a half.
> 
> Final assembly while the snow was coming down!  :ahhh: I thought I cut it close getting mine running Monday.



Thanks Don, yours looks beautiful also judging from the avatar.  I wish I had a more esthetically pleasing location like a corner spot.  The beauty of these stoves is how little space they take up compared to the wood stoves.  I could never have put a wood stove where my pellet stove is now, the house would have burned down in one night!


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## VTrider (Oct 31, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I'll have to check out how these stoves are supposed to be gasketed, it doesn't seem to have anything holding the glass to the door beside some gasket cemment.  My wood stoves had some sort of fastener device.  This seems to rely on gasket cemment to do the job?  I found quite a bit of ash had started to gather everywhere around the burn pot and even on the door gasket.  The cast iron door rattles sometimes also.  I wonder if anyone ever tried to come up with solutions to the noise level of these things.  Let me know if you have any pointers.  I'll report as soon as I find out how to make it quieter.  Maybe some high temp silicone around all the metal to metal overlaps around the motors and such...



I just replaced the window gasket in my Windsor - it uses a special dual-bulb gasket which I ended up ordering through my dealer (Enviro part# 50-634).  If I remember correctly, I used a small bead of the red high-temp rtv between the gasket and the cast iron door, to adhere the gasket to the door.  The gasket itself has a peel-off sticky tape on one side which the glass then gets 'sandwiched' inside.  I may have used a couple dabs of rtv in the corners on glass to the gasket as well, either way - it's in there very solid w/no movement or leaks (top of glass has no gasket = air wash).

My Windsor is on season #9.  Just had to replace the circuit board to fix a faulty convection fan controller, and added a new ignitor as well - It's looks and runs just like I brought it home from the showroom!  I also do have that occasional door rattle/vibration noise, I should check the hinge pins, but just opening the cast door and closing it again usually makes the vibration go away.


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## VCBurner (Dec 28, 2011)

So it has been a while since my last post on this thread. Lots of changes have been made and new findings to post. There seems to be quite a bit of ash build up in the burn pot after about 5 bags have been burned.  I tried to have the 5' horizontal run and cap combo and it worked out well but the fire goes out due to the high amount of combustion air that is  being pumped into the stove.  I tried to adjust the slider damper but it was stuck. Has anyone ever tried this procedure before?

The stove was quieter and seemed to work better without the vertical run but I had to put it back in order to be able to run the stove on low. I need a magnahelic pressure gauge in order to set the right pressure in the fire box, it seems to be blowing a bit strong. 

VTrider, I've been thinking about taking the gasket off the top of the glass to see if it would stay clean a bit longer. Is that how your stove came originally?

I regasketed the glass onto the door using simple Rutland furnace/gasket cement. A bead on the door and one inside the rope gasket in order to keep the glass attached.  Works very well.

I hope all of you are having a great holiday season!


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## raybonz (Dec 28, 2011)

http://www.dwyer-direct.com/shop/se...umResults=25&gclid=CKSs3O26pa0CFcfe4AodOF68OQ

http://compare.ebay.com/like/200691640386?var=lv&var=sbar

This sounds like a complete kit with tubing etc..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DWYER-MAGNE...SSURE-GAUGE-0-1-PSIG-/320818348177#vi-content

Good Luck!

Ray


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## DexterDay (Dec 28, 2011)

Have you tried different pellets yet? Some pellets have more dense ash that wont get blown out. Or if the pellets have a higher M/C the ash will tend to stay in the pot.

Normally, I would suggest more air to try and eject the ash a little better. But it may be the pellets??


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## VCBurner (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks Ray for the links, hope all is well with you and yours this holiday season!

Thanks DexterD for the input, it could be the pellets but I was looking back at earlier on this thread and this was one of the side effects of going over the recommended EVL, however it does not have lazy flames if anything, it appears too agitated. Also when I took the vertical run off the vent, the fires were getting blown out on the low setting. My goal is to eventually go just horizontal to cap outside, but I want to know that the pressure is at the correct setting and then there's the stuck slider damper to deal with if I need  to adjust it.  I could not move it last time I tried. Don't know if it will either, seeing as it is an 8yo stove.


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## VTrider (Dec 29, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> VTrider, I've been thinking about taking the gasket off the top of the glass to see if it would stay clean a bit longer. Is that how your stove came originally?



I believe the Windsor is designed 'not' to have any gasket material across the top of the glass - mine never did and I've never added any there.  From what I gather, this area is for the 'air wash' to help keep the window clean.  I would imagine that it would adversely affect the airflow and therefore the burn characteristics of the stove if indeed you did have the top of the window gasketed? So, i'm not sure if your saying that you do have this area gasketed? If so, maybe this is contributing to your issue?

I have mine direct vented, horizontally through the wall maybe 3-4' and never had any issues with fire going out on low.  Ironically, i've been thinking about adding a vertical section outside in order to increase the draft, for it will vent back into the room with smoke during a power outage, now i'm wondering if this would cause any issues such as keeping the fire going on a low setting - I would think though that any issue like this could be resolved by adjusting the damper, something which I have never touched.


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## Frogwood (Dec 29, 2011)

VTrider said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My stove is a 2003 Windsor and also does not have a gasket over the top part of the glass. Confused me at first but I did ask the dealer and they said it was designed that way as part of the "air wash" for the door just as VTrider mentioned. Haven't had to replace mine yet (knock on wood).
Balmy 54* in the Puget Sound region tonight so the stove is taking rest.


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## raybonz (Dec 29, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Thanks Ray for the links, hope all is well with you and yours this holiday season!
> 
> Thanks DexterD for the input, it could be the pellets but I was looking back at earlier on this thread and this was one of the side effects of going over the recommended EVL, however it does not have lazy flames if anything, it appears too agitated. Also when I took the vertical run off the vent, the fires were getting blown out on the low setting. My goal is to eventually go just horizontal to cap outside, but I want to know that the pressure is at the correct setting and then there's the stuck slider damper to deal with if I need  to adjust it.  I could not move it last time I tried. Don't know if it will either, seeing as it is an 8yo stove.



Hi Chris,
Yes, we had a good holiday considering that my wife had an appendectomy a few days before Christmas.. Of course it was an emergency as I have never heard of one that wasn't! I bet your boys had a blast and have been keeping you and your wife busier than usual  Good luck with the pellet stove issue! BTW how well does it heat your home? How does the cost of running a pellet stove compare to heating with a woodstove? 

Ray


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## VCBurner (Dec 29, 2011)

VTrider said:
			
		

> I believe the Windsor is designed 'not' to have any gasket material across the top of the glass - mine never did and I've never added any there.  From what I gather, this area is for the 'air wash' to help keep the window clean.  I would imagine that it would adversely affect the airflow and therefore the burn characteristics of the stove if indeed you did have the top of the window gasketed? So, i'm not sure if your saying that you do have this area gasketed? If so, maybe this is contributing to your issue?
> 
> I have mine direct vented, horizontally through the wall maybe 3-4' and never had any issues with fire going out on low.  Ironically, i've been thinking about adding a vertical section outside in order to increase the draft, for it will vent back into the room with smoke during a power outage, now i'm wondering if this would cause any issues such as keeping the fire going on a low setting - I would think though that any issue like this could be resolved by adjusting the damper, something which I have never touched.


Thank you for bringing up the gasket issue. The stove came to me with  a full gasket accross the top from the previous owner. I will adjust that today. I've been thinking about it for a couple of months now, since you first mentioned it. Now there are two of you who have said the same.
 Do you have an OAK connected? If you add a vertical run you may not have the issues I have. My fire goes out on low when I take away the vert. run. Check what your EVL value will be with your intended verticle run. Thanks again for the info.


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## VCBurner (Dec 29, 2011)

Frogwood said:
			
		

> My stove is a 2003 Windsor and also does not have a gasket over the top part of the glass. Confused me at first but I did ask the dealer and they said it was designed that way as part of the "air wash" for the door just as VTrider mentioned. Haven't had to replace mine yet (knock on wood).
> Balmy 54* in the Puget Sound region tonight so the stove is taking rest.


Thanks for the info Frogwood. Mine is also an '03 and you're the second person to tell me there is no gasket across the top. I'm convinced! 
As far as the weather we've been pretty lucky around here so far, last night reached low teens with chills in the single digits though. Wife turned it up to 4 in the middle of the night it was only 66Â° with the stove on heat level three! I want to buy a really good programmable thermostat and set the stove to high/low.


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## VCBurner (Dec 29, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Hi Chris,
> Yes, we had a good holiday considering that my wife had an appendectomy a few days before Christmas.. Of course it was an emergency as I have never heard of one that wasn't! I bet your boys had a blast and have been keeping you and your wife busier than usual  Good luck with the pellet stove issue! BTW how well does it heat your home? How does the cost of running a pellet stove compare to heating with a woodstove?
> 
> Ray


  Hey Ray,
The boys had a great Christmas and are now enjoying all their new gadgets and a well deserved vacation. Our oldest was student of the quarter and is learning to play the clarinet in the school band. The ten y.o. got straight A's and made it to soccer and band allstars. He played his Saxophone very well at the xmas concert a few weeks ago. It was a great joy watching my two older boys play those xmas tunes after only a few short weeks of practice. The eight y.o. also made it to  the allstar soccer game and likes his new school. Our five year old was the leading scorer on his kindergarten soccer team and loves going to school. The baby is now 7 months and has grown two bottom teeth!
Thanks for the posts my friend, hope the new year brings you and your family health and happiness!

As far as the stove cost it has not been bad, but as you know the weather has not been in winter mode yet!
My last two years fuel was all free wood so that'll be hard to match. We get our bags for just over $4 each. We will probably be using one to two bags per day in jan. and feb. if the weather finally hits us.


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## VTrider (Dec 29, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> VTrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not have an OAK, but i've been thinking about adding one for a number of reasons.  The stove is located in a small addition with 3 very large windows, sliding glass door and really bad insulation.  Although the pellet stove will heat the room no problem, the room is very drafty and I also get ice build-up on the bottom of the sliding glass door - i'm guessing that the stove is just creating negative pressure and sucking in outside cold air from every crack.  Hopefully, once I install an OAK it will take care of the draft issue, stove may burn more efficiently and if i'm lucky maybe it won't smoke back into the room when the power goes out!


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## VCBurner (Dec 29, 2011)

VTrider said:
			
		

> I do not have an OAK, but i've been thinking about adding one for a number of reasons.  The stove is located in a small addition with 3 very large windows, sliding glass door and really bad insulation.  Although the pellet stove will heat the room no problem, the room is very drafty and I also get ice build-up on the bottom of the sliding glass door - i'm guessing that the stove is just creating negative pressure and sucking in outside cold air from every crack.  Hopefully, once I install an OAK it will take care of the draft issue, stove may burn more efficiently and if i'm lucky maybe it won't smoke back into the room when the power goes out!


I've heard here on this thread: "if it smokes, you must OAK!"
related to just the issue you're having when the power goes out! In case you're looking for a place to get the air intake pipe, Aubuchon sells 3' sections of two inch flex pipe for $50. I'm sure they would order you a longer piece if you inquire. Ebay probably has someone selling it too. I used two inch EMT conduit wich can be found at any plumbing or electrical supply shop. Although, I would like to try some of the flex pipe in the future, the steel solid pipe rattles sometimes. Flex pipe would be less likely to create noise.


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## VTrider (Dec 29, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> VTrider said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey! okay just what I wanted to hear.  I've been putting the OAK off because, well quite frankly I've been just trying to figure out what materials to use for a DIY - don't really want to pay extra for a kit, and it's much more fun to do it yourself.  Anyway, my stove is very close to the wall and a 3' section of flex would be more than enough - will have to check out Aubuchon (I still haven't figured out what to use for a thimble (inside and outside of house) to dress it up?.  Not that I forsee any burnback or hot gasses exiting out of the OAK, I guess it's a possibility - any special concerns (insulation, heat?) when going through wall?  Did you have to use any special adapters or 45 degree angles for your metal conduit?


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## Frogwood (Dec 30, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I need to make some observations:
> The cast iron door rattles sometimes also.  I wonder if anyone ever tried to come up with solutions to the noise level of these things.  Let me know if you have any pointers.  I'll report as soon as I find out how to make it quieter.  Maybe some high temp silicone around all the metal to metal overlaps around the motors and such...



The door rattle drove me nuts last year, and the year before. Just had open them a bit for it to stop. Also experienced the joy of hearing the rear access and back grill panels rattle too because a few of the screws got stripped and weren't holding the panels very tight. Found that some high temp tape on the panels and a Campbells soup can wedged between the floor and the back grill stopped some of the shaking. Not pretty, but a good temporary fix until you can tighten things up.


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## VTrider (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh too Funny!  My Windsor also has developed that door rattle... as well as that 'panel rattle' you just mentioned.

I haven't figured out the door rattle, not a big deal and only happens once in a while - I just open the outer cast door and close it again and it quiets down, must be something with the hinge pins?  I believe my panel rattle has to do also with a stripped screw or two, I actually jammed a penny in between them and boom, problem solved!


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## VCBurner (Dec 31, 2011)

VTrider said:
			
		

> Hey! okay just what I wanted to hear.  I've been putting the OAK off because, well quite frankly I've been just trying to figure out what materials to use for a DIY - don't really want to pay extra for a kit, and it's much more fun to do it yourself.  Anyway, my stove is very close to the wall and a 3' section of flex would be more than enough - will have to check out Aubuchon (I still haven't figured out what to use for a thimble (inside and outside of house) to dress it up?.  Not that I forsee any burnback or hot gasses exiting out of the OAK, I guess it's a possibility - any special concerns (insulation, heat?) when going through wall?  Did you have to use any special adapters or 45 degree angles for your metal conduit?


I'm a novice with this OAK thing too! I suppose the intake would have to be placed at least 4' from the vent termination. Mine is just straight out but I have a vertical run on the pipes
so the cap ends up more than 4' away. If I get rid of the vertical run it may add the need for a 90 and an extention to the oak.


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## VCBurner (Dec 31, 2011)

Frogwood said:
			
		

> The door rattle drove me nuts last year, and the year before. Just had open them a bit for it to stop. Also experienced the joy of hearing the rear access and back grill panels rattle too because a few of the screws got stripped and weren't holding the panels very tight. Found that some high temp tape on the panels and a Campbells soup can wedged between the floor and the back grill stopped some of the shaking. Not pretty, but a good temporary fix until you can tighten things up.


LOL! I suppose a soup can would do if it works heh! Is it even visible back there? The doors on mine are now unlatched to eliminate the noise. Sometimes I get a squeaking noise coming from the convection blower compartment. I ,just push on it and it goes away. I tried some silicone between the rear panels and it seems to have made it quieter.

 It is always more silent after a cleaning.  I'm trying it without the gasket across the top of the glass for the first time after tonights cleaning (got trimmed away). We'll see if the glass stays cleaner. The burn pot build up was rediculous again. I have a feeling it may be pellet related as Dexter said.  Infernos from National Lumber is what I've been burning almost exclusively. Itrieda couple bags of green supreme from Aubuchon,but at $6.50/bag I'm not sure I'd stick to those for good. I'll have to look around for some other sources around here.


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## jtakeman (Dec 31, 2011)

To fix the rattles, I have gone to the stove shop and picked up window glass gasketing. Its available in different width's and thickness's. It has adhesive on one side or you can use silicon. Cut little pieces/strips to fill the gaps or isolate the pieces that rattle together. Worked great on my little quad and my breckwell bigE. My Omega hasn't needed it yet.


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## VCBurner (Dec 31, 2011)

So it has been about a day since I cut out the gasket across the top of the door and I see a major improvement on the look of the glass. Thank you Vtrider and Frogwood for the tip. Without your info I would never have known about that design feature. It surprizes me that it is not mentioned in any manual! There is still some gasket cement on the glass, which will remain there until a later date. I'll scrape it off the next time I feel like attempting such a feat.


			
				j-takeman said:
			
		

> To fix the rattles, I have gone to the stove shop and picked up window glass gasketing. Its available in different width's and thickness's. It has adhesive on one side or you can use silicon. Cut little pieces/strips to fill the gaps or isolate the pieces that rattle together. Worked great on my little quad and my breckwell bigE. My Omega hasn't needed it yet.


Thanks for the info J, as well as all the help you've given since before I purchased this stove. I was also thinking about putting some of the putty type material that HVAC guys use to piece together ducts (between the panels).  It comes in a roll like tape with paper in between. That stuff would be a great sound deadner. The idea you mentioned with the sticky rope gasket would be perfect for the cast iron decorative doors, which rattle sometimes when latched. Now that I think about it, the doors haven't rattled since I cut out the top gasket!  Hopefully it stays like this. Any ideas about how to adjust my slider damper? It seems to be  stuck, unless I'm going about it the wrong way. But it would be very likely to be stuck since it is an 8y.o. stove...right?

Another question is about a mag gauge can you recommend one?


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## jtakeman (Dec 31, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Any ideas about how to adjust my slider damper? It seems to be  stuck, unless I'm going about it the wrong way. But it would be very likely to be stuck since it is an 8y.o. stove...right?
> 
> Another question is about a mag gauge can you recommend one?



The damper could have a set screw or lock on it. Some of the tech's will lock them so the users can't adjust them once set. Remove the side panel where the damper is and look for something that will lock it in place. I have also seen some stuck from rust and debri. If you use a soft hammer and tap lightly it should work free. Just don't wack it to hard. I want to say hit it with penetrant, But I'd worry about solvents and such. Maybe a non flamable penetrant? 

I like my dwyer and scored it cheap on eBay. Brand new and Less than 40 clams shipped to my door step. Part number is 2000-00


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## VCBurner (Jan 2, 2012)

So two days have gone by since the last clean up and removal of gasket across the top of the door.  It has remained cleaner on the glass.  It also quieter, the decorative cast iron doors didn't rattle for at least 24 hours after the cleaning! I'm happy with the overall performance of this stove.  Even though, it is my first pellet burner and I have nothing to compare it to. My next pellet purchasewill be something other than Inferno's which is what we have been burning.  Lots of ash build up in the burn pot. 


			
				j-takeman said:
			
		

> The damper could have a set screw or lock on it. Some of the tech's will lock them so the users can't adjust them once set. Remove the side panel where the damper is and look for something that will lock it in place. I have also seen some stuck from rust and debri. If you use a soft hammer and tap lightly it should work free. Just don't wack it to hard. I want to say hit it with penetrant, But I'd worry about solvents and such. Maybe a non flamable penetrant?
> 
> I like my dwyer and scored it cheap on eBay. Brand new and Less than 40 clams shipped to my door step. Part number is 2000-00


Thanks for the tip on the Mag J!
There was a screw on the slider damper but it didn't move after tapping on it with a flat bar and hammer, the screw was losened. I'll try to remove the screw altogether and see if it'll move.  Maybe when I take it outside for the end of season clean up I'll be able to get it to move. It is in a tough spot to access the back of the stove, only about a foot away from the  railings.


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## DexterDay (Jan 2, 2012)

Once you start burning something other than Inferno's, you will be able to run on at least one level lower on the heat setting. 

Glad the pellet thing is working out for you. Having the 30-NC this year is nice. But of I had to pick.. Pellets are the way to go. Get a High BTU unit and place it centrally in the home and Bingo.. Pellets dont need seasoned and you dont need to keep 3 yrs worth (unless you want to/I am close to it).

Hope you had a Good Christmas and Happy New Year.


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## VCBurner (Jan 2, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Once you start burning something other than Inferno's, you will be able to run on at least one level lower on the heat setting.
> 
> Glad the pellet thing is working out for you. Having the 30-NC this year is nice. But of I had to pick.. Pellets are the way to go. Get a High BTU unit and place it centrally in the home and Bingo.. Pellets dont need seasoned and you dont need to keep 3 yrs worth (unless you want to/I am close to it).
> 
> Hope you had a Good Christmas and Happy New Year.


Thank you Dexter,
The boys had a great Christmas, wife and I as well!
The new year I hope will bring happiness to both of us and our families!
I can't complain about the pellet burning, easy and the wife loves just turning it up or down and never having to load it!
I for one, miss the wood burning, the fires, the wood, the penetrating heat. I can certainly heat this place up in a hurry with the Windsor, don't get me wrong. I could foresee a combo in my house, like you!  I was always curious about those 30nc's! Lots of happy Englander owners around here. I'm a union carpenter, often laid off in the winter months. I enjoyed going out and maul splitting logs in single digit temps! To me there is nothing more therapeutic!  That coupled with the cheaper price of wood and possibility of the occasional free wood scrounging is enough to make me a fan of wood stoves. I had two years worth of free wood, the two past heating seasons. Unfortunately there aren't too many free bags of pellets out there! 
I can't wait to hook this thing up to a thermostat and make it even easier to operate on high/low.  Thanks for all the tips DexterDay, burn on!


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## VCBurner (Jan 9, 2012)

So after a warm weekend, lots of folks here cleaned out their stoves. I wish I had a leaf blower that was adequate for the popular trick clean up! In the absence of one, what is your procedure for cleaning out a Windsor or any pellet stove? More specifically, I've heard of people needing to replace gaskets after a deep cleaning. I am trying to avoid any damage to gaskets, but would like to make sure the combustion blower/channel is not getting all full of debris. I read recently about another member loosening some sort of plate while trying to vacuum out  the exhaust path from the inside of his Windsor. I have never done a deep cleaning or even removed the firebox liner. Although, I have changed the configuration of the vent pipes (and cleaned) a couple of times since the end of October, when the stove was first installed.


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## VCBurner (Jan 9, 2012)

So, I posted the previous question pretty late last night. If members Vtrider, Frogwood and Ejectr are lurking around, I know you are currently using the same stove, I'd love to hear specifics about your clean up! DexterDay, jtakeman and smokey's input has also been helpful in my short, inexperienced ownership of a pellet burner. The stove is off right now and cooling, in preparation of a somewhat deep clean. I'll report with an update after the clean up. I feel confident enough to do the cleaning having read all the information that I've researched here. But if anyone has any last minute ideas  feel free to say so!


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## DexterDay (Jan 9, 2012)

I dont own that stove, but the area that is the most critical to clean, is from the firebox, to the combustion blower (the area or traps in which it travels)  If your not buying a gasket. Then do not remove tue combustion blower.

If you have a leafblower, that works great too. Also an air comprossor. Blasting spurts of air into the channels (areas inside or behind firebox/firebrick that accumulate fly-ash). The vent you say you have done already, but it never hurts to do it again. A straight shot only takes a second to do.

Wish I had more for ya. Pretty sure your gonna do a good job..


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## VCBurner (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you DexterDay, 
 It was fairly easy to clean it up! The toughest part was moving the stove off the raised hearth and onto the furniture dolly. I took off the rear panels and started by vacuuming inside the exhaust  flange. I the removed the exhaust flange and got as far as I could with the vac attachment. I took a brush to the passage also. I was also able to vac the horizontal 5' run from the inside of the house with the two vac hose extensions attached. There was quite a bit of build up in the pipe too, not as much as what I was about to discover behind the fireback panels.  The side where the exhaust is located wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. But the other side of the stove was packed! It must have been at least a third of the way up, full of ash. I used a small spatula that my wife bought a long time ago. It is the best cleaning tool for scraping the ashes into the ash pan. I suppose a two inch putty knife would work just as well. The two inch kitchen spatula I use has a wooden handle and a mice angle to the blade. I did not take the combustion blower off, due to potential need for gasket replacement, but the convection blower did come off for a good vac'ing. Though I feel pretty confident that the combustion passageways are pretty clean, removal of the blower will have to wait for the end of season clean up. The combustion blower compartment, was pretty dirty. Pellets had fallen down between the hopper and the firewall and landed in the convection blower cage. There were quite a few in there. They should have designed a block between the top cast iron piece and the top of the hopper. Usually if any pellets land on top of the hopper they just roll under the cast iron lid. So,e of them end up rolling far enough to fall between the hopper and the firewall. They don't get stuck there luckily, but end up right inside the convection cage. I figure a thick piece of rope gasket should take care of that problem. I've yet to find a good source of stove gasket near the new house. In the old town, we had Klem's,  is like a Tractor Supply but with better quality and more variety. They had quite a good selection of hardware, bolts, screws and nuts of all sorts, you could get any replacement screw for just about anything, including stove screws. Their stove selection was not the best but gaskets, venting and anything else stove related was to be had there.
As of right now, the Windsor seems yo be burning very well! It seems to be happy about the cleaning and is heating like a champ!  I did find that the screws holding the convection blower to the cage were sticking out too far and were rubbing up against the ash pan compartment. I trimmed them in order to avoid rattling. All is good!

Burn on!
Chris


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## VTrider (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey VC!  Couldn't help but notice the 'Windsor' thread bumped up, sounds like you've completed a pretty thorough cleaning of it which by the way is pretty much exactly what i've been doing with the stove for years.  Last Fall, I decided to grab my tools, some beer and pretty much disassemble everything I could on the Windsor - glad I did because I don't remember it burning this well since I started using it!  I was amazed at the hidden ash I found stuck in all the nook and crannies!

I've never done the leaf blower thing, will need to keep a lookout at yard sales this Summer.  Only thing I would recommend is to start keeping a supply of gaskets around so you will have them when needed.  I started making my own recently for this particular stove with great results, I use a high-temp ceramic material called Spectre 565, but there are many options like lytherm and other high-temp gasket material which can be had from local HVAC suppliers/businesses.

One area which I did find a good build up of ash was in that 'combustion chamber'  - that square-ish combustion way which proceeds past the combustion blower and exits the stove - to where the connecting exhaust pipe attached, spent lots of time there with various tools, brushes, air compressor.


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## VCBurner (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey VT, I agree, the tube steel passageway after the combustion blower is a pain to clean. I wish I had a piece of clear tubing that fit over my vac hose, so it could get around the corner. I saw some sort of lint cleaning tool just like that advertised on this site earlier today. I had to brush and scrape the dust to an area the vac could reach. Another thing I wonder about is why isn't there a vac hose attachment with a 3" or 4"poly brush already attached on it? Cleaning vent pipes would take seconds! 

Anyway, the only thing I still need to clean is to take apart the combustion blower. Mine seems to have the red high temp gasket material oozing out of the seams. I don't know if that is stock. I've been reading about some gasket material sheets from auto parts stores, etc.  I want to get some for my final cleaning.  One thing I lost was the deteriorating gasket material behind the middle firebox liner, around the drop tube hole. I read some people here tried different types of material to replace that felt like gasket.  It looks like the previous owner tried to squeeze some red high temp silicone there too. I almost put some furnace cement back there. But with all the rattling potential these stoves have I hate to add a hard material like that in place of a more pliable material such as the original. I also heard someone post it was not crucial to have. I'm pretty happy with the result of the cleaning, at least I have the peace of mind of knowing everything is kosher.
Take care.


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## Ejectr (Jan 10, 2012)

That gasket on the back of the center back plate is a fuzzy type fiberglass and it really doesn't do anything other than block that gap that is around the feed tube off from letting ash behind the plate.  I just leave the ash that builds up in that gap there when I do a minor cleaning and let it block the gap off.  Even if you leave out the gasket and clean out the ash build up in the gap, the amount of ash that gets back there between deep cleans is pretty minimal.  If yours was packed the way you said it was, the previous owner probably didn't pull the back plates too often.  I pull mine every ton and the ash build up back there isn't really that bad.


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## Frogwood (Jan 10, 2012)

Ejectr said:
			
		

> That gasket on the back of the center back plate is a fuzzy type fiberglass and it really doesn't do anything other than block that gap that is around the feed tube off from letting ash behind the plate.  I just leave the ash that builds up in that gap there when I do a minor cleaning and let it block the gap off.  Even if you leave out the gasket and clean out the ash build up in the gap, the amount of ash that gets back there between deep cleans is pretty minimal.  If yours was packed the way you said it was, the previous owner probably didn't pull the back plates too often.  I pull mine every ton and the ash build up back there isn't really that bad.



I agree. Mine came off as well and I haven't replaced it in a few years. It hasn't been a problem as long as I pull the panels every so often and clean it out.


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## Frogwood (Jan 10, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hey VT, I agree, the tube steel passageway after the combustion blower is a pain to clean. I wish I had a piece of clear tubing that fit over my vac hose, so it could get around the corner. I saw some sort of lint cleaning tool just like that advertised on this site earlier today. I had to brush and scrape the dust to an area the vac could reach. Another thing I wonder about is why isn't there a vac hose attachment with a 3" or 4"poly brush already attached on it? Cleaning vent pipes would take seconds!
> 
> Anyway, the only thing I still need to clean is to take apart the combustion blower. Mine seems to have the red high temp gasket material oozing out of the seams. I don't know if that is stock. I've been reading about some gasket material sheets from auto parts stores, etc.  I want to get some for my final cleaning.  One thing I lost was the deteriorating gasket material behind the middle firebox liner, around the drop tube hole. I read some people here tried different types of material to replace that felt like gasket.  It looks like the previous owner tried to squeeze some red high temp silicone there too. I almost put some furnace cement back there. But with all the rattling potential these stoves have I hate to add a hard material like that in place of a more pliable material such as the original. I also heard someone post it was not crucial to have. I'm pretty happy with the result of the cleaning, at least I have the peace of mind of knowing everything is kosher.
> Take care.



Hey VC...thanks for documenting all your progress. Enjoy reading it all since I can pretty much relate to it all since we have the same stove.
So, did you remove the exhaust blower from the rear and clean from that direction? Or just removed the brick panels and stick the vac hose down the exhaust channel and try and get as much stuff out as possible? Or both?


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## VCBurner (Jan 12, 2012)

Hi Frogwood,
I did not take the combustion blower off. I just removed the pipe adaptor flange from the back of the stove and cleaned out thetube steel exhaust passages and then cleaned as much as I could from behind the access panels in the exhaust passage inside the firebox. From what I could see the only place that was not reached was the fan itself and the housing around it.


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## nailed_nailer (Jan 12, 2012)

VCBurner,

I haven't been following this thread for some reason and just came across it.

I have made vacuum adapters for many of the folks here.
If you would like one,
PM me a mailing address and the inside diameter of your vacuum cleaner hose.
I will make a flexible tube adapter for it and send it to you.

It makes cleaning those nooks and crannies much easier.
---Nailer---


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hi Frogwood,
> I did not take the combustion blower off. I just removed the pipe adaptor flange from the back of the stove and cleaned out thetube steel exhaust passages and then cleaned as much as I could from behind the access panels in the exhaust passage inside the firebox. From what I could see the only place that was not reached was the fan itself and the housing around it.




That fan and its cavity can hold a pile of crud.

You might want to use a good strong shop vacuum or leaf blower in vacuum mode attached to the end of the vent outside to suck the mess out at least all of the stuff not stuck to the fan usually comes out.

I should probably should have reread the thread to see how you ended up doing the venting before mentioning the above.


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## VCBurner (Jan 12, 2012)

Hi Smokey,
Nice to hear from you again, your input is always appreciated. As far as the pipes I brushed and vacuumed from the inside.  I bet that blower housing does get pretty gummed up. I cant wait to do the leaf blower trick, as soon as I get my hands on one! I believe I need the felt like gasket material once the blower is removed correct? I may take a trip to the stove shop, Auto Zone or go on  Amazon to get that gasket. Then I can get into that blower and check things out!
Thanks.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 12, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hi Smokey,
> Nice to hear from you again, your input is always appreciated. As far as the pipes I brushed and vacuumed from the inside.  I bet that blower housing does get pretty gummed up. I cant wait to do the leaf blower trick, as soon as I get my hands on one! I believe I need the felt like gasket material once the blower is removed correct? I may take a trip to the stove shop, Auto Zone or go on  Amazon to get that gasket. Then I can get into that blower and check things out!
> Thanks.



Yes, you always need a gasket just in case the current one is damaged.


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## VCBurner (Jan 12, 2012)

nailed_nailer said:
			
		

> VCBurner,
> 
> I haven't been following this thread for some reason and just came across it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the offer Nailer, a PM will be under way! 
The wife and I met on the Cape, while I was living in Sandwich and working in Hyannis. We had two kids there before moving to central MA closer to her family. We have many fond memories together and I of growing up there! Have you seen that lint lizard that is being advertised here?


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## VCBurner (Jan 13, 2012)

Three days and four bags after the deep clean and it was time to empty out the ash pan, clean the glass and empty out any build up in the burn pot. I noticed considerably less build up in the burn pot. About 30-40%less. It is probably a result of the deep cleaning. I see why lots of people do it every ton as opposed to once or twice per season.

I must make another observation on the pot liner. It seems to have some area that is raised, it looks like build up but is not easily scraped. It is across from the ignitor and air intake tube.


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## Frogwood (Jan 13, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Three days and four bags after the deep clean and it was time to empty out the ash pan, clean the glass and empty out any build up in the burn pot. I noticed considerably less build up in the burn pot. About 30-40%less. It is probably a result of the deep cleaning. I see why lots of people do it every ton as opposed to once or twice per season.
> 
> I must make another observation on the pot liner. It seems to have some area that is raised, it looks like build up but is not easily scraped. It is across from the ignitor and air intake tube.



Occasionally have the same build up and doesn't come off with a wire brush. Finally got most off by chipping away at it with a flat head screw driver and a hammer.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 13, 2012)

If that burn liner pot comes out and there aren't any gaskets to get water logged a soak in warm soapy water will help free the crud in the pot.


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## VCBurner (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks for,the tips guys! I'll try both on the next cleaning.


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## VCBurner (Jan 16, 2012)

Three days after the last cleaning, had a scary situation. I've had to run this thing pretty hard to keep up with these frigid temps outside. Today, I had it on 5/5 to try to heat up the upstairs, only for about an hour. Then I looked in the burn pot and saw pellets backing up the shoot  :ahhh:! It was scary to see that with such a big blowing flame around it. The burn pot had so much built  hard ash, that the pellets began to back up. I instantly shut it off and cleaned it after it cooled off. It still surprises me how quickly these things cool off. Note to self, clean up the pot evety other day if running it from setting 3 to 5 for long periods of time! Especially on 4 or 5!

The OAK pipe is extremely cold!


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## DexterDay (Jan 16, 2012)

Sounds like it could use a tad more air. 

Was it ash in the bottom of the pot? Or a clinker? (Did it break easily? Or rock hard)

Have you tried a fan at the top of the steps blowing down?  Being a previous woodburner, you probably have. 

Seems to be doing a prettt good job for you. I think a unit in the 45,000-60,000 BTU range would be running mid-range and do a little better job. Now you have been introduced to pellets and you know now the ease of operation. If you continue with pellets down the road, I think you will be better prepared and be able to dive in head 1st. 

Heres hoping you get the heat upstairs and also your return back to the world of woodburning (keeping the pellet stove too)  ;-P


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## Frogwood (Jan 16, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Three days after the last cleaning, had a scary situation. I've had to run this thing pretty hard to keep up with these frigid temps outside. Today, I had it on 5/5 to try to heat up the upstairs, only for about an hour. Then I looked in the burn pot and saw pellets backing up the shoot  :ahhh:! It was scary to see that with such a big blowing flame around it. The burn pot had so much built  hard ash, that the pellets began to back up. I instantly shut it off and cleaned it after it cooled off. It still surprises me how quickly these things cool off. Note to self, clean up the pot evety other day if running it from setting 3 to 5 for long periods of time! Especially on 4 or 5!
> 
> The OAK pipe is extremely cold!



That does sound scary. Haven't had that happen to me yet although I rarely run it on 5/5...only for 15 mins or so if I do because that huge flame makes me nervous. Ran our stove on 3/5 all night and it kept the house around 66 with Bear Mountain pellets (hottest I've had). 
Let us know if you are able to resolve. 
Stay warm!


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Sounds like it could use a tad more air.
> 
> Was it ash in the bottom of the pot? Or a clinker? (Did it break easily? Or rock hard)
> 
> ...



So here are my thoughts after a day to mull it over: 
The stove heats the house well most of the time. It may be stretched out when we experience low teens and single digits for long periods of time. Especially, in the single digits. I knew this when I purchased the stove, being well aware that it is rated to heat around the sane amount of space as the house has. The heat has a hard time reaching the far bedroom upstairs, but it does a fairly good job heating two bedrooms that are closer to the stairs, as well as the bathroom and long/wide hallway leading to the far bedroom.  The hallway does a slight jog before it leads to the door of the 230 square foot bedroom.  This may be too much to ask of this stove. I would like one more thing before I make a final assessment. Some corner fans blowing the hot air down the hallway into the bedroom, coupled with a fan down low blowing the air out of the room. 


As far as the ash build up, it was hard, clumped together. Judging from what I've read about the Infernos, it may be pellet related. I now have a ton of these and will have no 
choice but to burn them up. 

The pellets at the top of the hard clump were whitish in color after the stove shut down. I think this was due to the lack of air when the stove shut down. This was the only time there were ever whitish cigarette like ash pellets in the burn pot There were still red ember like pellets on top of the burn pot when I opened the stove. I've yet to try another brand of pellets, but it really looks like it may be related to the Infernos.


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2012)

BTW, I ran the stove on 5/5 this morning for a couple of hours and it was all fine! No backing up at all.  Had to run it hard with a low of 4Â° last night. Set the stove to 4/5 and went to bed. The boys room had an oil filled radiator going all night on 600 watt and setting 4/10.  Everyone was happy!


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## jtakeman (Jan 17, 2012)

I think you could reduce the load on the stove with some better/hotter fuel. I know its tough, But picking up a few bags to get thru the cold days may make life easier for you and the stove. 

I lived with a stove that was fine on the double digit days for 8 seasons. But it was a pain when the temps dropped to the singles. I learned early to have the hot stuff handy when they were calling for such low temps. I could get by and was a bit more comfy. Had no chance on the below 0ÂºF days. So the wood eater was also fired to relief the pain.

If you have a couple extra bucks at least try picking up a few bags of Hamer Hot Ones, Barefoots or any other brand that have been know to crank out more heat than the ones your burning now.


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. Picking up a few bags at a time to stash away for cold single digit days may  be just what I need. Another good thing that has come from this is my wife gave me the green light to start looking for a bigger stove. Now, I'll have to convince her to let me put the Windsor upstairs somewhere!  It probably won't be until next season. But I can start looking now and during the Summer months when prices tend to drop.


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## VCBurner (Jan 18, 2012)

So the pot was just about to overflow again this afternoon. It was just about 48 hours after the last clinker clean up.  I turned the stove off this afternoon, temps were warming up outside, almost 50Â° high. I had to run it pretty hard to try to keep up in the past two 
days. 

I took the burn pot liner down to the basement work bench and chiseled off all the built up clinker crud. The build up came off with a big flat head screw driver a hammer.  I then filed inside all the wholes with a round, chainsaw file. A flat file scraped off some of the flat surfaces. After all the scraping I dunked the liner in hot soapy water while vac'ing off the inside of the stove and cleaned the glass. The rest of the crud came right off the liner with a brillo pad after a good soaking. The thing was as clean as could be. I did notice some pitting on some of the surfaces of the liner. Maybe time for a new liner? It does not look bad, only some slight pitting. Anyway, we'll see if the clinker build up will be at all diminished by the cleaner liner.


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## Frogwood (Jan 18, 2012)

Curios what heat setting you were running this time when the pot overflowed...5/5 again? 
Have had more crud build up while burning Bear Mtn pellets. Will try the soaking method as described by you and others. Thanks for the tip. Been cleaning the burn pot and doing basic cleaning every three days for the last few weeks. It has been worth the trouble as the Bear Mtns kick out some serious heat. The house was a cozy 68 this morning after running on 3/5 heat setting overnight with outside temp around 31*. 

Expecting 2 - 6 inches of snow tomorrow in the Puget Sound area. Praying for no power outages!


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## Ejectr (Jan 18, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> So the pot was just about to overflow again this afternoon. It was just about 48 hours after the last clinker clean up.  I turned the stove off this afternoon, temps were warming up outside, almost 50Â° high. I had to run it pretty hard to try to keep up in the past two
> days.
> 
> I took the burn pot liner down to the basement work bench and chiseled off all the built up clinker crud. The build up came off with a big flat head screw driver a hammer.  I then filed inside all the wholes with a round, chainsaw file. A flat file scraped off some of the flat surfaces. After all the scraping I dunked the liner in hot soapy water while vac'ing off the inside of the stove and cleaned the glass. The rest of the crud came right off the liner with a brillo pad after a good soaking. The thing was as clean as could be. I did notice some pitting on some of the surfaces of the liner. Maybe time for a new liner? It does not look bad, only some slight pitting. Anyway, we'll see if the clinker build up will be at all diminished by the cleaner liner.


Back in 2004 when I got my Windsor and registered it with Enviro, I got in the email a new burn pot that has a different pattern than the one it came with.  Instead of having the holes  all the same size, this one has a pattern of small holes and large holes on the bottom surface.

You want to know ANYTHING about your Enviro, call Alan at the Enviro manufacturing facility.  Leave a message if he doesn't answer.  He will call you back.  He'll tell you what it is for sure.  Alan..... Tech at Enviro    1-888-285-2224.


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## VCBurner (Jan 18, 2012)

Frogwood said:
			
		

> Curios what heat setting you were running this time when the pot overflowed...5/5 again?
> Have had more crud build up while burning Bear Mtn pellets. Will try the soaking method as described by you and others. Thanks for the tip. Been cleaning the burn pot and doing basic cleaning every three days for the last few weeks. It has been worth the trouble as the Bear Mtns kick out some serious heat. The house was a cozy 68 this morning after running on 3/5 heat setting overnight with outside temp around 31*.
> 
> Expecting 2 - 6 inches of snow tomorrow in the Puget Sound area. Praying for no power outages!



Hey Frogwood,
I had it on 4/5 the vast majority of the time from Sunday night to Tuesday morning, with periods of 5/5 total of a couple of hours. Temps were in the low teens and single digits for almost two days, with a high of 19Â° on Monday afternoon. So I had to push it harder and my three day cleaning schedule shrank to two days. I figure three bags is all I should get with these Infernos before a clean up, stretching it out to 4 is possible at times. Now that temps are back to low 30's it was on 2/5 last night and the downstairs was 68Â° when we got up. It has been a mild winter for us so far. Last year at this point we had over 100 inches of snow. This year has been strange, we had 22" of snow in an October storm and not much else since then.  Only a few inches here and there. Six inches is not considered much around here. But I've been seeing on the news how disruptive it can be for life in Seatle. Good luck with the snow storm, I hope you don't lose power.


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## VCBurner (Jan 18, 2012)

Ejectr said:
			
		

> Back in 2004 when I got my Windsor and registered it with Enviro, I got in the email a new burn pot that has a different pattern than the one it came with.  Instead of having the holes  all the same size, this one has a pattern of small holes and large holes on the bottom surface.
> 
> You want to know ANYTHING about your Enviro, call Alan at the Enviro manufacturing facility.  Leave a message if he doesn't answer.  He will call you back.  He'll tell you what it is for sure.  Alan..... Tech at Enviro    1-888-285-2224.


Thanks for that number Ejectr, 

1)how often are you cleaning your stove?
2) Are you using it as a primary heat source? 
3)Where do you get your pellets and what are you burning? 
4)How big a space are you heating with you stove?

 I only ask this because we live in similar reagions with comparable weather. I want to find some good pellets that don't cost $6.50/bag. Next year I plan on buying early to beat the price gouging, but I'd like to try a few different brands this year. 

I do have the liner with different size wholes on the bottom. It must have been an upgrade done by the previous owner. The manufacture tag inside the hopper lid says August of 2002.

Thanks for the info,
Chris


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## Ejectr (Jan 18, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ejectr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I clean the stove every 5-7 bags.  I can stretch it to 10 sometimes, but that makes the ash drawer a tad full.  I'm using Okanagan pellets that I purchase from Squier Lumber in Monson, MA.  They sell for $279/ton or $5.99 per bag.

I heat a 16'X 28' room with a cathedral ceiling that is an extension off the main house.  Had a small wood stove in there when I bought the house that wouldn't even run all night.  The other soursce of heat is 2 electric wall units with a fan in them (brilliant, eh!...to heat a 16x28 room with a cathedral ceiling).  I understand why they did that because the rest of the house has forced hot air heat and this extension was an afterthought that sits on a concrete footing with a crawl space and it was pretty impossible to break through the main house foundation to get any kind of a heating duct into that room. Going through that cold crawl space would have cooled the heat down before it even arrived.

I usually run the stove on 1, only because it won't stay lit burning on 1 and auger trim light lit on 4.  Used to burn LG pellets on that setting but the Okanagans will not run on anything lower than 1.  That setting keeps that room at 68 unless the temps take a dive.  The rest of the house is heated by a Harman PF100 pellet furnace that I am SO glad I put in this fall.

So in summation....I'm really not a good comparison.  You're heating your whole house.  I'm just heating a large open room.  If I had my way, I'd put a ceiling in that room and use the upstairs for storage.


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## Frogwood (Jan 19, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Frogwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2 inches in Seattle is a disaster with all the steep hillsâ€¦the place just shuts down if it snows. Been snowing all day here and the kids are having a blast. We live on an island to the west of Seattle so power outages can sometimes last a while. If it does go out I run a power cord from an outside generator into the house and run the stove and fridge off of it. Seriously considering ripping out our old prefab fireplace (which we donâ€™t use) next year and building an alcove for a wood stove. Seen lots of examples on Hearth of folks doing that. Wonâ€™t have to worry about the power outages so much in that case.

Stay warm!


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## VCBurner (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey Fw,
The wood stove idea sounds great. Nothing like a nice freestanding stove for those power outages! Stay warm without the generator and even do some cooking in or on it! Burning wood is really fun, IMO, plus there are no motors or sensors to worry about. I cleaned my wood stove far less than I have been cleaning the pellet burner. The flames are also better to watch. 

We have 3 inches on the ground so far tonight, it's only supposed to get to 4. The past two days have seen easy heating for the stove. Last night got to 7Â° low, but it was no problem for the Windsor at 4/5. My wife kicked it up a notch in the middle of the night. It was only 65Â° in here with it set on 3/5. Made it up to 70Â° inside with single digit temps by the time the boys and I got up. Right now life is good, lots of pellets in the basement, lots of heat from the Windsor.


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## DexterDay (Jan 20, 2012)

Been awhile since I seen a photo. Thats beautiful Chris. You should be proud of the work you did. That Hearth pad looks awesome.


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## raybonz (Jan 20, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hey Fw,
> The wood stove idea sounds great. Nothing like a nice freestanding stove for those power outages! Stay warm without the generator and even do some cooking in or on it! Burning wood is really fun, IMO, plus there are no motors or sensors to worry about. I cleaned my wood stove far less than I have been cleaning the pellet burner. The flames are also better to watch.
> 
> We have 3 inches on the ground so far tonight, it's only supposed to get to 4. The past two days have seen easy heating for the stove. Last night got to 7Â° low, but it was no problem for the Windsor at 4/5. My wife kicked it up a notch in the middle of the night. It was only 65Â° in here with it set on 3/5. Made it up to 70Â° inside with single digit temps by the time the boys and I got up. Right now life is good, lots of pellets in the basement, lots of heat from the Windsor.



Hi Chris,
While I agree that pellets are a good heating method I am glad I burn wood with all the issues that pellets present.. I actually thought about pellets at one time  but wood came out on top with low/little maintenance and the fact that wood is readily available.. Wood also needs no power and that was the clincher for me.. I know you had little choice but if you did I bet wood would have won out.. I will also add that I like to keep my home around 75 degrees and easily heat 1632 sq. ft. on 2 floors which is easy to do with wood without beating my stove to a pulp.. Stay warm!

Your Friend,
Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 21, 2012)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Hi Chris,
> While I agree that pellets are a good heating method I am glad I burn wood with all the issues that pellets present.. I actually thought about pellets at one time  but wood came out on top with low/little maintenance and the fact that wood is readily available.. Wood also needs no power and that was the clincher for me.. I know you had little choice but if you did I bet wood would have won out.. I will also add that I like to keep my home around 75 degrees and easily heat 1632 sq. ft. on 2 floors which is easy to do with wood without beating my stove to a pulp.. Stay warm!
> 
> Your Friend,
> Ray


Hello my friend, 
Good to hear from you. Yes, I miss the wood fire no doubt. I scrounged the wood and processed it myself. It was a great fit for my lifestyle. But I am entering the pellet burning with an open mind. I have enjoyed it so far.  I have noticed with this stove that going beyond 72Â° starts to feel uncomfortable, almost like a forced hot air heating system. With the wood stove, 76Â° was ideal in the stove room. Thus the farthest spaces were also warmer. Thanks for posting Ray,
Take care,
Chris


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## VCBurner (Jan 21, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Been awhile since I seen a photo. Thats beautiful Chris. You should be proud of the work you did. That Hearth pad looks awesome.


Thank you Dexter, this stove is really growing on me. I guess that is only normal when we go through such lengths to save on heating costs. The stoves become our allies. 
BTW, I saw a Mt. Vernon AE on CL for $1000. It is a 2006 model, the owner said it needs a control board. The pics look great.


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## raybonz (Jan 21, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I have heard that pellet stoves dry out the air a lot. What do you think is the reason for this? Woodstoves dry out the air too do you feel they dry out the air to a lesser degree than pellet stoves?

Thanx,
Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 21, 2012)

Ray,
I'm by no means equipped to answer this question scientifically. But I will attempt to speculate,in my own crude way. The bulk of the heat comes through the heat exchangers of pellet burner. By no means is it soft heat like the heat from a wood stove. Because it is so rapidly heated and forced through it is essentially burned out. The flame is also forced. This is the reason why the pellet burners can get so much heat out of such small amount of wood that is in the burn pot. As you know, any time you try to push hot air through cool air it loses its energy quicker than if it was slowly dissipating. On a wood stove, even a convection type heater, a big portion of the heat comes softly from the body of the stove and is not blown out like a forced air furnace. The heatfills the room more evenly because it radiates out of more surfaces. 

 Another reason why I can't get as much heat upstairs as I would like. Example: outside tempabout 21Â°,  74Â° at the thermostat in the stove room right now. I am sitting 3' away from the side of the stove and I can hardly notice it is running. But if I stand 3' away from the front of the stove, I can feel it for sure. The flame is tall and bright and fills the center of the firebox in a pretty uniform way, the sign of a good burn. As I look from the side, I can see the heat waves coming off the oval enamel difuser on top of the stove, making that part pretty hot. I can't leave my hand on it for more than a second without feeling too hot. I wish I had an IR to see how hot that difuser is.  The stove's heat setting is on 4 out of 5 and the cast iron is hot, but I can put my hands on the sides without a problem. The temperature upstairs is 70Â°, about six feet away from the coldest room. Inside that bedroom it is 64Â°.  That is a difference of 10Â° between the stove room and the furthest room. However, I can't blame the stove, it is more about the lay out. The hallway leading to the far room is 
almost 22 feet long and 3' 3" wide and takes a jog before leading to the doorway.  It also has two other bedrooms and 
a bathroom to heat on the way. I think any medium sized stove rated to heat 1600 sq ft would have a hard time heating the far room.  I do think a medium sized stove would send more heat upstairs due to the natural radiance of the wood stoves.


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## VCBurner (Jan 21, 2012)

I cleaned the stove yesterday, the burn pot was full but less than before the liner scraping. There was also less to scrape off of the liner this time, the screw driver works well for me. The burned crust comes off easily with a bit of force. Overall, scraping the pot completely, with every clean up, will improve the performance of the stove.


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## Ejectr (Jan 21, 2012)

You really should try a few bags of Okanagans or the like.  I think you will see a radical difference in not only the performance of the stove, but the clean up and build up as well.


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## raybonz (Jan 21, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ray,
> I'm by no means equipped to answer this question scientifically. But I will attempt to speculate,in my own crude way. The bulk of the heat comes through the heat exchangers of pellet burner. By no means is it soft heat like the heat from a wood stove. Because it is so rapidly heated and forced through it is essentially burned out. The flame is also forced. This is the reason why the pellet burners can get so much heat out of such small amount of wood that is in the burn pot. As you know, any time you try to push hot air through cool air it loses its energy quicker than if it was slowly dissipating. On a wood stove, even a convection type heater, a big portion of the heat comes softly from the body of the stove and is not blown out like a forced air furnace. The heatfills the room more evenly because it radiates out of more surfaces.
> 
> Another reason why I can't get as much heat upstairs as I would like. Example: outside tempabout 21Â°,  74Â° at the thermostat in the stove room right now. I am sitting 3' away from the side of the stove and I can hardly notice it is running. But if I stand 3' away from the front of the stove, I can feel it for sure. The flame is tall and bright and fills the center of the firebox in a pretty uniform way, the sign of a good burn. As I look from the side, I can see the heat waves coming off the oval enamel difuser on top of the stove, making that part pretty hot. I can't leave my hand on it for more than a second without feeling too hot. I wish I had an IR to see how hot that difuser is.  The stove's heat setting is on 4 out of 5 and the cast iron is hot, but I can put my hands on the sides without a problem. The temperature upstairs is 70Â°, about six feet away from the coldest room. Inside that bedroom it is 64Â°.  That is a difference of 10Â° between the stove room and the furthest room. However, I can't blame the stove, it is more about the lay out. The hallway leading to the far room is
> ...



Thanx for the info Chris! My brother had a Harman pellet stove and got rid of it because he said he could feel the cold draft with so much air movement plus it dried out his house really bad.. He told me he had it hooked up with an OAK too.. You mentioned the stove gets pretty hot on top by the diffuser, maybe you can place a pan of water on top to enhance the humidity a bit? You being a hearth.com member who had a woodstove knows about using box fans etc. and that may help heat the more remote areas in your home..

On another note, after running a CDW cat stove for over 20 years and now running a T-5 I would take this stove anyday! I feel this stove is more efficient and capable than my large CDW stove.. It recovers quickly when you ned fast heat as well and is so easy to learn and operate! I just used the butterfy top and opened it to reheat a few slices of pizza and they came out awesome in 10 mins! I placed them on a piece of foil and they came out crispy! I would consider that free heat as they stove was running for heat anyways  If you have a chance to see a T-5 in action check them out.. You would also be amazed how quiet and effective the blower is too.. You would  love the great fireshow that a secondary burn stove provides.. While I like cat stoves there is no comparison to the view of a secondary burn stove.. It even puts a campfire to shame lol..

Just thought you'd be interested in hearing about the T-5..  Glad to know you and your family are doing well too!

Hang in there!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 21, 2012)

Ray,
The stove does dry the place out badly. The top doesn't get hot enough to really add too much humidity. I tried my cast iron kettle on the top and the water was luke warm the next morning. Plus, I'm afraid of ruinning the enamel finish on it. I am thinking about the resale value  as I would like to try something bigger eventually. I do want to try some little doorway fans throughout the house to see how much of a difference it would make. As I said, there is a huge difference between standing just outside the cold bedroom as opposed to inside. I tried a small fan blowing the cool air out, down on the floor, all it did was cool off the hallway dramatically, making the rest of the upstairs cool. 

I do enjoy hearing about the T5. I can't believe how well iy is doing compared to the CDW. I would like to check one out in action. I bet the secondary show is awesome! My Windsor flames are like a torch. I lile the unpredictability and soothing subtlety of wood fire flames.
I love the sliding trivets on your T5, I checked them out at the stove shop once, they did not have one going though.


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## VCBurner (Feb 18, 2012)

So I wanted to check in since it has been a while.  I'm very happy with this stove overall, it has heated the house very well with little pellet consumption.  We had a one ton delivery on January 18th, thirty days later we've burned 37 bags.  This means @$4.14/ bag we spent $153 dollars to heat the house for the last 30 days!  Of course, the mild weather has certainly helped.  Next season I will be more equipped with some better fuel in order to be able to handle the really cold months, which we really haven't had this year.  I must admit, I sort of lost count of how many bags we burned before that, as we were buying pellets on a weekly basis, but it was about a ton I would say give or take a few.  I wish I kept a count of how much was consumed before the 1/18 delivery.  I would say 4 tons will do for next year though.   I will have to keep an eye from now until the end of the season in order to have a better idea.  The last 13 bags will get us up to March. So I'm looking for a good deal on a ton which should just about do it if the weather stays mild.  

It sure has been a lot easier than using wood.  Although, I still miss my wood stove I am thankful to be able to heat the house with pellets.  Sure beats having the oil truck come over once a month!


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## raybonz (Feb 18, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> So I wanted to check in since it has been a while.  I'm very happy with this stove overall, it has heated the house very well with little pellet consumption.  We had a one ton delivery on January 18th, thirty days later we've burned 37 bags.  This means @$4.14/ bag we spent $153 dollars to heat the house for the last 30 days!  Of course, the mild weather has certainly helped.  Next season I will be more equipped with some better fuel in order to be able to handle the really cold months, which we really haven't had this year.  I must admit, I sort of lost count of how many bags we burned before that, as we were buying pellets on a weekly basis, but it was about a ton I would say give or take a few.  I wish I kept a count of how much was consumed before the 1/18 delivery.  I would say 4 tons will do for next year though.   I will have to keep an eye from now until the end of the season in order to have a better idea.  The last 13 bags will get us up to March. So I'm looking for a good deal on a ton which should just about do it if the weather stays mild.
> 
> It sure has been a lot easier than using wood.  Although, I still miss my wood stove I am thankful to be able to heat the house with pellets.  Sure beats having the oil truck come over once a month!



Hi Chris! Sounds like the pellet stove is working OK for you! I like the idea of temperature control that a pellet stove does well plus the storage is much easier. You also have the advantage to just buy pellets when you need them unlike wood which you buy a year or 2 in advance. I would think that creosote would be a non-issue as well with all the air that stokes the pellet fire. Wood has the advantage to provide heat and a cooking surface in the evnt of a power outage plus can be found everywhere. The other plus is woodstoves are simple compared to a pellet stove. Enjoy the mild winter!

Ray


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## nailed_nailer (Feb 18, 2012)

VCBurner,

I think you will see vast improvement with the heat output and cleaning schedule once you switch to higher quality pellets.

Also, I know the screwdriver is working on the burnpot clinkers but I find a Painters 5-1 tool works great. It is stiff enough to act like a wide chisel and has a flat end and a pointed end to dig into anything that is really stuck on.  I lay my burn pot on my back deck railing and scrape and chip the clinkers away.  Just takes a few minutes.

If you have been burning the Inferno's all year you are really going to need a full tear down cleaning at end of season. You will be surprised how much crap will be stuck to the combustion vent path.  
Compressed air and spray carburetor cleaner will be your new best friends. 

Best of Luck,
---Nailer---


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## DexterDay (Feb 18, 2012)

Glad that this has been a good experience for you Chris. 

Some Cord wood burners have a lemon year and get a bad taste in there mouth about pellet stoves. 

Having a good stove and a good maintenance schedule are vital to the stoves operation. You had both.  Glad this has been a good year. Once you get your hands on some good fuel.... Look Out!! ;-P


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## VCBurner (Feb 20, 2012)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Hi Chris! Sounds like the pellet stove is working OK for you! I like the idea of temperature control that a pellet stove does well plus the storage is much easier. You also have the advantage to just buy pellets when you need them unlike wood which you buy a year or 2 in advance. I would think that creosote would be a non-issue as well with all the air that stokes the pellet fire. Wood has the advantage to provide heat and a cooking surface in the evnt of a power outage plus can be found everywhere. The other plus is woodstoves are simple compared to a pellet stove. Enjoy the mild winter!
> 
> Ray


Hi Ray, yes I'd say it's working well and doing the job.  We went out yesterday around 4pm (to the Monster Jam @ the DCU in Worcester, what a blast!) and came back today at 8:30pm (28 and 1/5 hours) and the stove was still going!  It was on the lowest setting and was just about to run out when we got home, but I think it would be hard to find a wood stove that could match that!  Maybe one of those Blaze Kings.  Wood stoves will remain a fond memory for now as well as a labor of love! But rest assured that as soon as possible, I will have a wood stove in my home.  I can also say that pellet stoves have cemented a place in my home, a combination of the two would be great, maybe two tons of pellets and two cords per year?  For now it'll be just a wish, one that I'll keep close for when we purchase a home.  How is your beautiful stove working out?  I'll have to check your threads to see if you've been reporting anything new!  Take care, happy burnings!

Chris

PS: BTW, I spent the night at the inlaws where the Encore was nicely heating the house, I'll post some pics on the Encore thread!


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## VCBurner (Feb 20, 2012)

nailed_nailer said:
			
		

> VCBurner,
> 
> I think you will see vast improvement with the heat output and cleaning schedule once you switch to higher quality pellets.
> 
> ...


Hello Nailer, I can't wait to put some really good fuel in it and see how well it'll do.  I know it will be lightyears away from the Inferno mess and low heat production.  

The screwdriver I use is a big standard one and I turn it sideways to get the edge into the crust on the pot.  I also keep a couple of sharp wood chisels on the workbench along with a brush and a round file that fits perfectly inside the holes in the burn pot liner.  The attachment you sent me has already come in handy, I use it often to get around the heat exchanger tubes and above the baffle like metal in the upper corners of the firebox.  I also used it to get as far as I could inside the combustion blower housing without taking it apart.  I plan on another deep cleaning in the beginning of March to see how things are going in the exhaust passageways, etc.  The combustion blower will come off then.  I have taken the firebox liner panels off three times to get all the ash that collects there.  Every time I do it the stove performs much better than with all the ash behind there!  

Thanks for posting!


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## VCBurner (Feb 20, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Glad that this has been a good experience for you Chris.
> 
> Some Cord wood burners have a lemon year and get a bad taste in there mouth about pellet stoves.
> 
> Having a good stove and a good maintenance schedule are vital to the stoves operation. You had both.  Glad this has been a good year. Once you get your hands on some good fuel.... Look Out!! ;-P



It has been a pleasure.  I can't say I don't miss my wood stove, but the ease of burning pellets sure has proven itself.  Yes, the maintenance on the stove is more but the load ups are far easier and my wife really likes it, which in turn makes us all happy!  She is alergic to all sorts of things and having wood in the house used to cause her some discomfort.  So I guess you could say the bad taste is not as bad for me.  Of course I miss the ghost flames of the old cat stove and the slow quiet heat I used to get from its convection chamber.  But this pellet stove is a good here at this house, the boys don't miss having to haul wood with me, though one of them used to always come out with me when I was hand splitting in the middle of the winter!  He just loved to keep me company, he is almost 9 now and loves being with me whenever I do any sort of work.  That I miss.  The 40# bags are still too heavy for him.  He used to carry a couple of logs at a time and play around with a little hatchet!  The older two, who are 10 and 11 are a great help to move the pellets into the basement.  They also bring bags up into the main floor when I don't feel like running down there.  

Overall, I would say it has been a homerun.  No parts failures, no problems with heat or consumption.  To be honest with you I can't wait for Spring and Summer, camping season is three months away now and baseball season for the boys as well as travel soccer.  I coach both, and they are starting in less than two months.  Soon the grass will be green and the lawn mower will replace the stove.


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## VCBurner (Feb 20, 2012)

Ejectr said:
			
		

> You really should try a few bags of Okanagans or the like.  I think you will see a radical difference in not only the performance of the stove, but the clean up and build up as well.



Hey Ejectr, drove through Brimfield today, what a nice ride it was mostly back roads all the way up to rt 2.  Saw some pallets of Okanagans on someone's yard and remembered your words!


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## DexterDay (Feb 20, 2012)

Sounds awesome. Kids are definitely what makes Life worth living.

My Son (10 gonna be 11 soon) is involved in Baseball (Coach), Football (Asst Coach), and Scouts (involved completely). He loves to help me carry in wood and clean the pellet stoves.

Also have an 8 month old Daughter. But she dont help with much (other than pull at my heart strings :lol: ) 

Glad you like it.... I think more wood burners should give pellets a shot. They would be surprised.


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## Ejectr (Feb 20, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ejectr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just saw your post.  Welcome to Brimfield.  If you traveled the back roads, you probably took Rt19 -67 - 122 - 32 to Rt 2.  Those are some serious back roads and definitely a slow boat to China.  You were 5 minutes from my house.


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## smwilliamson (Feb 20, 2012)

VC, does your Windsor have the new Empress door or do you have the "wiggly" glass. The upgrade help the combustion chamber a lot and the glass stays clean on top AND bottom


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Sounds awesome. Kids are definitely what makes Life worth living.
> 
> My Son (10 gonna be 11 soon) is involved in Baseball (Coach), Football (Asst Coach), and Scouts (involved completely). He loves to help me carry in wood and clean the pellet stoves.
> 
> ...



Wow, great stuff DD, funny you should mention Scouts.  I was a scout leader for 3 years and my wife was the treasurer.  I still miss it sometimes, but that one hour per week sure does grow very quickly.  I now have four boys who would be in scouts if we went back, which I talked about with my oldest son (11 y.o. who wants to join Scouts again) this weekend.  He does not want to play soccer anymore but has started playing the clarinet and just landed two parts in his middle school play.  He was also the student of the quarter (1st term) and made the honor roll both terms this year.  My 10 y. o. son had straight A's firt term and made the principal's list, as well as soccer all stars and band all stars (playing his saxophone.) He got high honors second term but didn't make the principal's list because he had one B.  Our 8 y. o. Max, made the soccer all stars in the fall and was the highest scorer on his team.  He also did really well in his indoor soccer academy, where they got to meet Diego Fagundez, from the New England Revolution, he's the second youngest player to ever score a goal in his debut on an MLS game @ 16 years old.  Diego's dad Washington was a goaly coach at the soccer academy.  Max really liked him and was often training twice a day in order to do the goaly practice and regular practice back to back.  He loves sports and made the cut at try outs for a new travel soccer team this year. I was invited to coach it.  He will try out for minor league (spring baseball) this year and should be able to make it.  Try outs are in a couple of weeks.  My forth son Johnny, is the hardest worker of all on the soccer fields.  He turns 6 in two days and goes to every practice no matter who's paying.  He practices with the 10-13 year olds with his two older brothers as well as with the 7-9 year olds and his brother Max.  If I don't bring him, he cries!  He didn't miss one practice this year.  One of the days, it was pouring outside and I said, Johnny can you please stay home because I don't want you to get hurt or sick at practice tonight?  He refused and was the first one out to the field when we arrived at practice in the rain.  Naturally, he is unstopable on the soccer field, often scoring almost at will on his U6 division team mates.  He was the highest scorer in his division.  He also plays three season of soccer per year.  John gets to play for the Rookies division this spring in baseball and is very excited.  I'll be coaching that team.  Our youngest boy is 9 months old today!  He brings joy to my life every day.  I have been laid off since May and he keeps me sane and very busy!  I wil miss him immensely when I go back to work, which I hope will be very soon.


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2012)

Ejectr said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HaHa!  Yeah you're right it was a slow boat.   In a 28.5 hour span (4pm Saturday- 8:30pm Sunday) we went from Templeton, to Oxford (to drop off the baby), to Worcester (Monster Jam @DCU Center), back to Oxford (to crash @ the in laws,) to Warren (to visit a friend for diner) back to Templeton.  We travelled all the roads you mentioned and then some!  The roads were nice and the weather beautiful.  We hit an Opossum (the size of a moose) on the way home in Hardwick.  Beautiful country those back roads, I felt like I was on Chronicle, LOL!  

Chris


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2012)

smwilliamson said:
			
		

> VC, does your Windsor have the new Empress door or do you have the "wiggly" glass. The upgrade help the combustion chamber a lot and the glass stays clean on top AND bottom



I'm not sure.  I bought the stove used and it had a gasket all the way around.  Upon visiting the Pellet Mill I ran into a couple gentlemen who had no gasket across the top of their door.  So I removed the part of the gasket that wraps into the inside part of the glass (across the top), essentially cutting it in half by running a knife down the middle while the glass was already istalled on the door.  The glass got dirty faster before I removed that part of the gasket.  It used to get dirty a lot faster when the gasket was covering the entire door.  I'll have to go by the Enviro shop and take a peak at the Empress to check out the difference now that I am a bit more acquaited with the Windsor.  

Is that an upgrade I can do to the Windsor in order to improve it myself?  Also, is there a need to lube any of the motors on this thing?  Do you have a trick to move a slider damper on this thing, it seems to be stuck!  I need a mag to check the numbers on this thing too.  I was almost positive it was blowing too hard, which may be a good thing in my case due to the 5' horizontal pipe from the back of the stove to a 90 up 4 feet 45+45 and termination cap.


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## DexterDay (Feb 21, 2012)

Sounds like a great bunch. You should be proud. 

Some up and coming Soccer stars, huh? Sports and Scouting do take up a bit of time. Some of it can be monotonous (daily football practices in the Summer and Fall) but well worth it when they are winning games and the kids are on "Cloud 9".  Scouting he and I both really enjoy. Next year he steps up into Boy Scouts (Weblos now) thats when the fun really starts. Pinewood Derby is coming up the 2nd weekend in March. Last year he took 4th overall and 2nd for his Den. I took 1st for the Parents (we have a little "un-sanctioned" match after the kids.. (I used speed axles last year and Im pretty sure a couple Dads are gonna do the same this year (Oh Well!)....

As for your Baby.. Congratulations. My daughter will be 9 months this Sunday (D.O.B.- 5/26/11). She is amazing. Pulls on my strings already. Also, I've never seen a Baby that loves.to watch a Fire the way she does. Mama Hates it (Dont need 2 Fire Bugs in the house) But I love it.....

Anyways... Glad the Pellet stove has done its job. Next year with better fields and the experience you gained from this season, you should have the Pellet Thing down.  Fuel quality is amazing. Difference between burning Poplar or Cottonwood and burning Shag bark or Locoust. 

Very good thread. Very detailed. I understand why some Hearth room guys followed you over here (Good read and review). I believe it was Ray who made the comment on the detailed-depth you take into them.  Very good write-up and review. These are the types of threads that can make a Cord wood burner see the "Other Side". Not taking away from other threads. But you couldnt burn wood in your New Home and had to find an alternative that would work for your situation. Start to Finish, you did a Great Job. 

Oh and Monster Jam is Awesome I dont care if your 5 or 75, anything with that much HP, is Ridiculous! ! ;-P Coming soon to Cleveland. . . See ya


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## raybonz (Feb 21, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great your kids are doing excellent! Chris you need to consider finding a job out of the union! If I was out of work that long I'd be bankrupt!! I much prefer a steady paycheck with bennies anyday over being laidoff.. I got laidoff 2 yrs. in a row for about 3 months and I found another job and I actually make more now and still get 4 weeks vacation plus bennies.. I am speaking as a family man that had 5 kids too so I know what I am talking about.. There is no job that is worth that sort of insecurity!

My 2 cents as a friend and family man,
Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 23, 2012)

I wanted to update the thread with a few pics from inside the firebox (behind the cast iron backing panels.)  The pictures highlight a very important part of the maintenance schedule of this stove.  I find this to be an important place to clean, otherwise the stove is not happy.  Particularly the combustion blower.  Let me explain:

Once the area behind the liner plates is full of ash the blower is strained.  The ashes restrict the exhaust flow and make clinkers appear much faster.  How much ash gathers and how quickly, depends on your particular exhaust set up, how much you're burning and of course the quality of the fuel.  I can't personally attest to the latter of the three, as I have been burning Inferno's almost exclusively.  

     I have a particularly difficult exhaust with a 3 inch, 5 foot horizontal run right off the stove and fuel that is known to have a high ash content.  But nonetheless,* I feel that this area needs to be cleaned more than bianually as the manual states. * I have cleaned this area four times since the instal on October 29th.  This means, at least once a month is necessary to keep the stove working properly.  I am going to try to clean this area twice a month, as I feel this would only increase the life of the stove with less parts failures in the long run. I have heard of people not service cleaning their stoves for 2 years, vent pipes included.  I could not imagine having a stove work hard all year and not cleaning the exhaust passageways.  My manual recommends cleaning the exhaust vent at every two tons.  I would not go more than one ton. 

The pictures were taken after the clean up with the panels removed.  You can clearly see the square exhaust vent, which is normally hidden behind the panels.  One picture highlights the fan blades that can be seen inside the square vent opening.  The lower right portion of the firebox is what gathers the most ash.  More of the exhaust is sucket throught the larger triangular cut out that can be seen on the top right side of the firebox.  The smoke is essentially pulled toward the heat exchanger tubes and the ash falls through the holes in the top corners landing behind the panels.  This ash is a lot finer than the ash in the ash pan or the ash that can be found around the burn pot. You can see a crack on the baffle plate.  Next time I do this I'm going to take a before and after picture ana one with the panels in place.


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## VCBurner (Feb 27, 2012)

I was wondering if anyone has the original Enviro Windsor Bruchure PDF, if so could you please PM me or post a link to it on this thread?  I can't seem to find it anywhere...


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## DexterDay (Feb 27, 2012)

The actual brochure?  Or owners manual? Or technical manual?


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## VCBurner (Feb 28, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> The actual brochure?  Or owners manual? Or technical manual?


Hey Dex,

I have the original owner's manual as well as a couple other PDF's of the manual and service manual.  I was referring to the brochure.


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## VCBurner (Feb 28, 2012)

Found it!

http://www.naturalheat.ca/brochures/Windsor-Pellet-Brochure.pdf


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## zrtmatos (Nov 26, 2012)

VCBurner said:


> *I wanted to ask if anyone has the original brochure in pdf form, if so could you PM me or post a link on this thread? *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I have the same enameled model and I paid 2000 in 2005 when it was a demo in a store. Loved that grey color on it. It has burned well since then, occational fickiness when not cleaned so well. No parts replaced so far. I have it in a 2 story condo and it kept it at about 72 on #3 setting. I have it placed at the bottom of the stairs leading to the bedrooms.


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2012)

November comes to a close and I just did the first servicing for the 12/13 Winter last weekend.  I can understand why people pay others to clean up their stove or vent pipes.  It did take a while, taking all the vent pipes completely off, brushing and reinstalling, cleaning the back of the stove,  taking the convection blower off, brushing all the fins and sucking up all the dust that was stuck in them.  Although, the hardest part for me is taking the stove off the hearth pad.  Of course I do the entire servicing the old fashioned way.  No blower trick or special procedures.  Taking it all apart makes me feel good knowing that I can clearly see that it is all clean.  I put the stove on a four wheel furniture dolly so I can move it off the raised hearth and move it around the room.  It is just easier than trying to clean it all up while it is against the wall.


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2012)

Hello zrtmatos.  Nice pic.  I like the look of that stove too, thanks for posting.  That stove fits in perfectly in my livingroom, though at the coldest times it can use help heating the furthest bedroom upstairs. It does like to be frequently cleaned though!  Any stove would be hard pressed to get heat across the house to the far bedroom from where it sits. Great experience for my first pellet stove 


zrtmatos said:


> I have the same enameled model and I paid 2000 in 2005 when it was a demo in a store. Loved that grey color on it. It has burned well since then, occational fickiness when not cleaned so well. No parts replaced so far. I have it in a 2 story condo and it kept it at about 72 on #3 setting. I have it placed at the bottom of the stairs leading to the bedrooms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





zrtmatos said:


> I have the same enameled model and I paid 2000 in 2005 when it was a demo in a store. Loved that grey color on it. It has burned well since then, occational fickiness when not cleaned so well. No parts replaced so far. I have it in a 2 story condo and it kept it at about 72 on #3 setting. I have it placed at the bottom of the stairs leading to the bedrooms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi Chris,

Glad to see you back on here. Also glad that it is you and not me doing the vent work.

I do however employ the LBT and do the rest of the work where the stove sits. It isn't all that bad and I have it down to a reasonable amount of time.


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## zrtmatos (Nov 30, 2012)

In case this is needed also, there is the manual for the stove. I can send to anyone at their request.


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