# boiler in my garage



## ssupercoolss (Feb 3, 2008)

dont freak out yet - read.  i understand you cant put a solid fuel appliance in a garage.  but what makes a "garage" a garage, and not a "mechanical" room?  i've been searching here for a while and cant quite figure this one out.  my "garage" is hardly a garage.  before i bought the house, at least one third of the garage was taken to make the kitchen bigger.  so my garage is approximetly 7' wide by maybe 10' long.  these garages are really funny too...my nieghbor still has a full size garage.  you have to pull your car in, because there is a cut out in the wall for you to open the drivers door. passenger has to get out before you pull into the garage.  but anyways - is my garage still a garage because it has a big overhead door, and enough space to fit some bikes and a ton of wood pellets?  or is my garage no longer a garage because you can not fit a car in it? 

i am not trying to be a smartass or anything like that, and not planning on doing anything illegal either. but i will post my findings when i speak with the building inspector.

if i were able to put a wood boiler in this room, vs my basement, it would greatly widen my options.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 3, 2008)

You know, I was thinking about this, and it occurs to me that you could chisel a hole in the slab and install a vertical pipe, thereby guaranteeing that no car could drive in, but not restricting your ability to use the large door to bring in wood or pellets.

Joe


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## Sting (Feb 3, 2008)

It may be as simple as laying a single course of solid 4 inch cement block - inline to the threshold - just inside the overhead door.

And that can aways be easily removed if you ever wish to restore the "garage"


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 3, 2008)

When does it become an issue? When you sell your house? When your garage burns down? Are there places where the authorities come knocking on your door demanding that you quit violating the Code?

Apparently not in NYS. This picture is an obvious code violation in a commercial building (plain stovepipe "chimney" in a bar) clearly visible from the state highway. If this guy can continue to operate a business in a manner that is clearly a threat to public safety, how could anyone justify hassling homeowners over technical (but safe) violations of applicable codes?


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 3, 2008)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> When does it become an issue? When you sell your house? When your garage burns down? Are there places where the authorities come knocking on your door demanding that you quit violating the Code?
> 
> Apparently not in NYS. This picture is an obvious code violation in a commercial building (plain stovepipe "chimney" in a bar) clearly visible from the state highway. If this guy can continue to operate a business in a manner that is clearly a threat to public safety, how could anyone justify hassling homeowners over technical (but safe) violations of applicable codes?



Homeowners typically don't fight fines in court - they just pay up.  So hassling homeowners is a much better revenue generator for the gov't! (true, but disturbing)

Joe


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## Bob Rohr (Feb 4, 2008)

Depends on who you ask. 

 NFPA defines it as " a building or structure in which not more than 3 self propelled passenger vehicles are or may be stored and that will not normally be used for other than minor service or repair operations on said vehicles"

DOE says something like a space large enough to accommodate a car with a door 6 foot wide and 7 foot tall.

Around here folks put in "John Deere" rooms to park mowers, etc in the basement.

I'd say any space where mowers, or tools with gasoline could be used or stored would be a bad place for a solid fueled appliance.

Insurance companies also have various versions of where, if at all, solid fuel appliances may be installed.

Your local building department AHJ  (authority having jurisdiction)  would be the best bet.  Get him to quote the building code page and article number.i

 hr


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## jebatty (Feb 4, 2008)

Safety, building code, insurance, liability, affordability, what is practical -- rarely in sync. My gassification unit is in my workshop, an old barn, which is nothing but flammable. Without claiming this is the model of safety, I live where there is no building code and my insurance carrier will not insure the building for reasons unrelated to the boiler (like it could fall down sometime in the next 100 years). So, in the workshop/barn is where it goes.

One caution though -- if and when you ever sell the place, and the boiler may be located or installed in violation of code or you know something is not done correctly or safely, fully disclosure to the buyer along with a safety warning, "as is - where is", etc. to reduce the risk of getting your rear-end bit in the event the buyer or property is injured, damaged, death etc. in the future by reason of the boiler. If you live in an area where you have to bring up to code in connection with a sale, you may be between a rock and a hard place.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 4, 2008)

i do think it will be possible for me to do this.  i just have to convince or prove this room is no longer a garage.  i have 2 sheds for storing flammables, lawn tractorsand the like,  away from the house which is the best place for them in my opinion.  i wont be able to do this task with out pulling a permit and talking with my insurance company.  2 reasons. (1) one of my nieghbors doesnt like me.  i think i know who it is, but she forgot to sign the annonomous letter she sent me about my dog.  (2) i used to be very good friends with the building inspector, and i think we are still ok, i dont want to put him in a bad position with me doing this with no permit.  

my township required me to get a permit to reline my flue.  you would be amazed what my township requires a permit for.  

  it would be back to the drawing board for my wood boiler idea, trying to get a boiler into my basement, going through my house, down my narrow staircase, and making a 90 degree turn........


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## Sting (Feb 4, 2008)

What about installing a new "handy" access to the basement - something wide and covered - maybe ever hand dug in from that same attached garage- then you would also gain some additional close wood storage.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 4, 2008)

my basement is completly underground.  the garage definetly looks like the best place for the boiler for many reasons.  

i dont use the garage for a garage.  i really should call it a big mud room.

it will only require getting the boiler off of my truck and moved about 12 feet.

i will need an additional flue in my basement (anywhere for that matter), my foundation is stone and close to 2' thick.

the garage is above grade, and the chimney would only have to go through a cinderblock and brick wall.

i will spend a ton less on class A chimney, probably only 15' versus 30'.

at first i was looking at a wood/oil unit that would be able to share the 6"flue that i have in my basement.  i am concered about getting a unit weighing 700 lbs to my basement, there is no way for me to get a unit weighing in at 1400 lbs to my basement.


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## solarguy (Feb 4, 2008)

Who says you can't put a boiler in a garage? I would want to see that in writing.
Providing your 18" off the floor with any source of combustion you should be all set.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 4, 2008)

i believe its nfpa code.  if i am not mistaken its "no solid fuel appliance should be installed in a garage"


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## solarguy (Feb 4, 2008)

>i believe its nfpa code.

I'm going to check that out because NFPA does allow gas & oil fired equipment to be installed
in a garage.  If you can install gas & oil why not solid fuel?
I'll post what we find including the code section.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 4, 2008)

I've been told both that you need to be 18 inches above the floor and that it's a no-no in an attached garage. I don't know which is the case, but like you, solarguy, I don't see any difference between a flaming gas or oil burner and a wood burner, other than you can't kill the fire on the latter with the flip of a switch.


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## solarguy (Feb 4, 2008)

Concerning fossil fuel equipment, the code doesn't reference any difference between attached or detached garages, only private, public & service. 
In our other home we had a wood stove in the garage 18" above the floor & an office above. The fire inspector said thought I had you but looks like your legal. That was 7 years ago so maybe there has been a code change dealing w/ solid fuels. I'll get back to you Wednesday after I research this, out of the office tommorrow.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 5, 2008)

thanks solarguy, i appreciate you looking into it, as i have called the building inspector in town here, and i have him scratching his head a little.  he said he will look into it, i wonder if i get the same answer from both of you.  

from some of the previous post i have read on here, no solid fuel in a garage because you actually have to open the door to the appliance to feed it, i guess exposing the flame.  dont take that as gospil, though, just because i read that somewhere.  but....for gas and oil installed in a garage do they require outside air for combustion?  if not, than it really doesnt make sense to me.  i know you cant fix stupidity, but i can think of many ways to blow up my garage, with an oil/gas burner in my garage.  but i would do any of them.


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## eekster (Feb 5, 2008)

Anything in the garage or eleswhere, depending on the circumstances, should have combustion air. My boiler is in the garage and it is pretty tight. I made sure there was combustion air. When the boiler is running hard ( when it is cold out) youcan feel air being drawn through the duct.
Keith


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## Tony H (Feb 5, 2008)

Maybe the first issue is to make that room "not a garage" by definition would lack of a garage door be enough ? install a double door to load in wood and take the garage door out. It seems to me if a car cannot fit into the space it cannot be a garage anyway.

Good thing we don't have inspector looking for that around here as I know quite a few people with wood stoves in garages, large sheds and pole barns.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 5, 2008)

i will have to wait to hear what the building inspector comes back with, like i said he is kind of a friend of mine, so i know he will try to work with me.  but at the same time i cant do anything that would put him in a bad position.  i pretty much invisioned what tony mentioned.  maybe a french door type set up.  i kind of hate to lose the garage door though, although i had planned on a nice new one this fall.  the only problem i face with framing out garage door area is the fact that my house is brick.  there are a lot of houses in the neighborhood that have turned the garage into a room, and from the outside, did an awful job with some type of siding, and it looks terrible.


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## Jersey Bill (Feb 5, 2008)

I found no restrictions to boilers in a garage (assuming that its not a "hazardous location") in the 06 international mechanical code or the building code.
In fact, in the mech code, there was no reference to solid fuel boilers at all.


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## rsnider (Feb 5, 2008)

if you have a driveway just put some of those concrete type things used in parking lots infront of that big door (garage door) and lock that door. who is to say if its a garage if you cant enter it with the door obstructed like that. not to sound smart but just hang a sign saying (this is my boiler room thanks for asking). but for real you should be good if the one wall connected to your house is a fire wall and you cant enter the big door with any motorized vehicle.  i do see your point of not getting someone u know in trouble for soming shaddy.i just cant believe that it is this complicated of a issue. good luck


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 5, 2008)

i think most of it is going to come down to what the building inspector is comfortable with. i am fairly confident he is not going to come back to me with "nope, cant do it."  i would say he is going to say, "ok, heres what you need to do."  he knows that i dont use it as a garage - my vehicles will not fit in the garage without doing considerable damage to the house/vehicle.  but if i were to sell the house, thats a different story.  i think just like many people have said here, its going to be a matter of preventing a car from entering the garage.  i am going to give him few days to look into it, dont want to bug him too much.  but i will definetly post the outcome here, maybe to help someone else out in the future.


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## Jersey Bill (Feb 6, 2008)

Yep, I found it in the 2006 edition of NFPA 211
Standard for Chimneys, Fireplaces, Vents, and Solid Fuel-Burning Appliances
Under Chapter 12  Solid fuel burning appliances

12.2.4 Solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in any garage.

I think that its about the door. There are plenty of garages that have been converted into living spaces. If there is a "garage door" like the kind that a car can get through, then its a garage.  If there is a man door, even a twin 3'0" (6 ft wide) then its a room other than a garage. (IMHO)


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## solarguy (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm waiting on a decision from the State Fire Marshalls Office concerning a garage wood boiler installation, I should hear back on this Thursday.  I have talked w/ several Buidling Inspectors about this & they don't see any issues but the jurisdication does fall with the Fire Department.

In order to keep an installation legal the proposal is as follows:  

Frame off & build a boiler room inside the garage with the only access to the "boiler room" being from outside the garage. The room would be big enough to maintain the clearances as stated by the manufacturer. The installation would be classified as a "confined space" therefore air for combustion would be required. This would prevent any flammable vapors or fumes inside the garage from being ignited by the wood boiler.

We'll wait & see what the big guns have to say about this.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 6, 2008)

solarguy said:
			
		

> Frame off & build a boiler room inside the garage with the only access to the "boiler room" being from outside the garage.



If the walls are built to fire-code, and a proper fire-rated door is used, it shouldn't be an issue even if the room opened into the garage.  The fire wall would separate it from the garage, just like the house itself is separated from the garage by a fire wall.

Joe


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## solarguy (Feb 6, 2008)

>If the walls are built to fire-code, and a proper fire-rated door is used, it shouldn’t be an issue >even if the room opened into the garage. 

Sorry, I believe that's wrong. 
Under the building code, which refers back to NFPA 54, "any room" that is accesable only thru a garage also needs to have the source of ignition 18" above the floor. 
So if NFPA 211 will not allow a solid fuel boiler in a garage, building a room with a door that opened directly into the garage IMHO wouldn't fly. The issue being the possibility of igniting gas fumes & vapors.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 7, 2008)

solarguy said:
			
		

> >If the walls are built to fire-code, and a proper fire-rated door is used, it shouldn’t be an issue >even if the room opened into the garage.
> 
> Sorry, I believe that's wrong.
> Under the building code, which refers back to NFPA 54, "any room" that is accesable only thru a garage also needs to have the source of ignition 18" above the floor.
> So if NFPA 211 will not allow a solid fuel boiler in a garage, building a room with a door that opened directly into the garage IMHO wouldn't fly. The issue being the possibility of igniting gas fumes & vapors.



Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I meant that it could _also_ open into the garage, not that it should _only_ open into the garage.  If it opens to the outside as well as to the garage, it's no different from the rest of the house.

I'm dealing with this right now with a building in Grafton county at the moment.  Large garage (36x72) with a partial second floor 14-feet wide running along one of the 72-foot walls.  Rest of it is open up through, although there will be a freestanding second floor added to much of it for storage, later on.  The second floor area being put in right now will be a residence.  And the owner wants to heat with wood, in addition to oil, and store several thousand gallons of fuel on-site since the road isn't accessible to large trucks for a good portion of the winter.  And have a commercial-grade kitchen, which means we have all sorts of issues with ventilation to keep fumes from the garage from infiltrating the residential sections.  Much fun was had by all!

Joe


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## Jersey Bill (Feb 7, 2008)

So you are potentially going to build a room in the garage, with access to the outside ? Then you will have to go outside to fire and load it? That will really be less than optimum.
You said that you don't use it (the garage) for your car anyway. It would be easier to remove the garage door 
and replace it with a piece of wall and a man-door. Then you have weight for the claim that its not a garage. problem solved

the whole room should be big enough concerning combustion air (average construction), but if you have to put it in a little room it has to be done right. If you need to size intake air vents, i can look it up for you in the mechanical code. Either way there is a specific calculation to figure it out. The input needed is the size of the garage and the btu rating on the boiler, 1 opening or 2. I think thats it.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 7, 2008)

theres a few different senerios that are going on here, i have not called the building inspector back yet.  i am still mulling things over before i call him.  i really want to be able to keep my garage door for 2 reasons.  (1) it opens up, i have a vehicle backed up to my garage door, and having a mandoor would be somewhat of a hassle.  (2)  the houses were built with garages - some people have converted the garage into a den.  i really dont like the look of the covered up garage door.  i.e. brick doesnt match, siding is gay.....i would honestly prefer to leave the garage door, nail it shut, paint the windows black, and fram a wall behind it.  then i would have to move the mandoor around the corner, which would be more work to put in.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 7, 2008)

I like the idea of a concrete barrier or steel pipe set in concrete making it impossible to get a vehicle into the garage. To me, that gets the desired job done and is relatively easily removed later (like, right after the inspector leaves........). But I'm not an inspector.


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 7, 2008)

eric - that is my favorite option too.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah, if it is inaccessible to cars, it is not a garage.  It's just a storage room with an overhead door.

You may want to sketch out a blueprint of the proposed installation, and actually label the room "storage and mechanical room" or something.  If you call it a garage, they certainly will.  And label the door "overhead door," not "garage door."  If you make it clear that it is something other than a garage, it should make your life easier.

Joe


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## ssupercoolss (Feb 7, 2008)

thats some real good vergage right there too.  with a boiler in my garage, with the size of the boiler, proper clearences etc, there will probably only be 6' of usable space left.  can hardly be considered a garage then.


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## solarguy (Feb 7, 2008)

The verdict is in. According to the State Fire Marshalls office, you could build a mechanical room inside a garage & have it contain a wood fired boiler per the code. Access to the room would need to be from outside, not inside the garage. 
If you have no where else to install a boiler or are unable to rig it into a basement
this is a pretty decent alternative in lieu of building a shed.  

So Future Boiler, call your inspector & get him onboard


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