# Getting heat upstairs from the woodstove



## mbcijim (Dec 28, 2009)

A little background:

Built a new house last year, geothermal (duct) heat installed throughout house.
PE Summit Classic installed in basement, sort of as a hobby/backup/fun/exercise...
Basement also has duct work installed off of geothermal system.
Basement being finished next month, about 1,500 sft with a drop ceiling.  
Staircase to go upstairs is a Z, 4' wide, but has a door at the top (which I am considering permanently removing).  

I'd like to maximize my heat from the PE going upstairs.  
I've already installed a large return in the return duct almost directly above the stove. 
Almost all the rooms above the wood stove I'd like to be able to heat with the wood stove.  
I'm considering adding direct vents from the basement to the first floor to get that heat upstairs should I choose to use the wood stove.  

Anyone's thoughts on how I can best get the heat to rise?  
If I do direct vents, do I need 2 per room?  
Anyone aware of a commercial vent system I can buy?  Everything would be installed in a drop ceiling and wood floor.


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## thewoodlands (Dec 28, 2009)

mbcijim said:
			
		

> A little background:
> 
> Built a new house last year, geothermal (duct) heat installed throughout house.
> PE Summit Classic installed in basement, sort of as a hobby/backup/fun/exercise...
> ...



We have a basement install (Lopi Liberty) with the blower, last night the temp outside was 30 and the temp inside was 70. The basement is finished off except for the ceiling. The only way we can move the air upstairs is by turning the circulating fan on for the furnace for the cold air ducts, we have done that once. We are burning hard maple lately and see a big difference (expected) in the heat upstairs. 

zap


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## smokinj (Dec 28, 2009)

geotherma? why are you dont wanting to run it?


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## billb3 (Dec 28, 2009)

Even in Pa, I imagine his geothermal backup system is kicking  this time of year. If it is electric, that can be a bit expensive.




No way to keep the air handler  on all the time ?

I'd  consider keeping the door open.
I tried a louvered door in a similar situation and that didn't work well.
With kids, a french dooor worked.

If you have clearance over the door,an opening there might work.


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## mbcijim (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks Zapny, that's comforting to know the duct's will move that much air.  

billb3, do you have experience to think the air handler will help that much?  Yes I can keep the unit on all the time.  Actually after a $500 electric bill I unwired the electric back up heat.  And for all but 3-4 days last winter the unit did keep up.  The house is well insulated.  

SmokinJay, my house is huge (per the wife's request), not mine.  The geothermal cost me $200month to run in the bad months - Dec, Jan, Feb.  Which I can afford, but I am a pyro at heart.  I have at least 8 cords cut & drying for 18+ months and another 3 cords or so in rounds.  So I have the wood, I figure I might as well use it.  I fell in love with cutting/splitting wood.  I just spent my lunch break splitting wood just because I like it!  My labrador wants me to throw the ball anyway, so I need to outside for him, I might as well do something instead of waiting for him to return the ball.   I sit at a desk all day, I need something to do to burn off all the beer I drink!


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## thewoodlands (Dec 28, 2009)

mbcijim said:
			
		

> Thanks Zapny, that's comforting to know the duct's will move that much air.
> 
> billb3, do you have experience to think the air handler will help that much?  Yes I can keep the unit on all the time.  Actually after a $500 electric bill I unwired the electric back up heat.  And for all but 3-4 days last winter the unit did keep up.  The house is well insulated.
> 
> SmokinJay, my house is huge (per the wife's request), not mine.  The geothermal cost me $200month to run in the bad months - Dec, Jan, Feb.  Which I can afford, but I am a pyro at heart.  I have at least 8 cords cut & drying for 18+ months and another 3 cords or so in rounds.  So I have the wood, I figure I might as well use it.  I fell in love with cutting/splitting wood.  I just spent my lunch break splitting wood just because I like it!  My labrador wants me to throw the ball anyway, so I need to outside for him, I might as well do something instead of waiting for him to return the ball.   I sit at a desk all day, I need something to do to burn off all the beer I drink!



Hope I didn't mislead you, we didn't use the circulating fan for the cold air ducts last night. When it was 15 below I used them for 20-30 minutes and raised the bedroom temp by 3 degrees.

zap


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## billb3 (Dec 28, 2009)

I've only used an air handler in the Summer to help with coolth and stale air. NO air conditioning.
I couldn't stand listening to it.
The trees I planted on that side of the house got tall enough to create an amazing amount of cooler shade and temps on that side of the house.
Then I moved.  

My brother has forced hot air gas heat  and he'll leave his air handler on to move  living room heat to upstairs, but again, can't stand listening to it (his is quieter than mine was) and it costs $$. 
We cut holes in the living room cieling and blew upstairs air down, but that only worked as well as the tenagers would keep crap off the vents. 

There are firewall and or abatement issues, too. With fans and openings.


Sometimes hot air off the ceiling will travel right up an open  basement door.
It has worked for me when the door could be left open.
Every house is different.


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## waynek (Dec 29, 2009)

It is difficult to make suggestions...not knowing exactly your floor plans. In two different houses with wood stoves in the finished basement I had good results with a grid opening directly over the stove and opened the basement door. In this thermocycle...the basement door was the cold air return. Another house which I designed and built, the chimney was in the center of the house next to an open stairwell. Each room had floor openings with registers on the outside walls.  When the stove was fired it created a thermocycle... large volumes of heat went up the stairwell and cold air returned to the basement through the floor registers.

In my present home (two-story brick home circa 1920) it was more challangeing to move the heat, however by retrofitting the house with floor registers and using the laundry chute on two floors, I was able to achieve satisfactory temperatures in all floors until the temperature dropped to about 15 degrees above zero. Then I could press a first floor fireplace into service or use the backup natural gas fired forced air furnace.
jackpine


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## CarbonNeutral (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm guessing your attic insulation is up to spec - adding to ours and sealing gaps has made a massive difference.


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## WoodPorn (Dec 29, 2009)

CarbonNeutral said:
			
		

> I'm guessing your attic insulation is up to spec - adding to ours and sealing gaps has made a massive difference.



Not to hijack, but CO, how exactly did you add to the insulation?  I have 12" of fiber between my 2nd fl and semi-finished attic but that's it. Would insulating the roof make that big of a difference??

Maybe a discussion for a different topic...sorry


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## CarbonNeutral (Dec 29, 2009)

Werm said:
			
		

> CarbonNeutral said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfaced R30 from HD - was half price - still may be. but I only had 3-4" - you wouldn't see anywhere as much improvement. Are you sure all of your air gaps are sealed - maybe PM if you want an answer to keep this thread on track.


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## mbcijim (Dec 29, 2009)

jackpine said:
			
		

> It is difficult to make suggestions...not knowing exactly your floor plans. In two different houses with wood stoves in the finished basement I had good results with a grid opening directly over the stove and opened the basement door. In this thermocycle...the basement door was the cold air return. Another house which I designed and built, the chimney was in the center of the house next to an open stairwell. Each room had floor openings with registers on the outside walls.  When the stove was fired it created a thermocycle... large volumes of heat went up the stairwell and cold air returned to the basement through the floor registers.
> 
> In my present home (two-story brick home circa 1920) it was more challangeing to move the heat, however by retrofitting the house with floor registers and using the laundry chute on two floors, I was able to achieve satisfactory temperatures in all floors until the temperature dropped to about 15 degrees above zero. Then I could press a first floor fireplace into service or use the backup natural gas fired forced air furnace.
> jackpine



Jackpine,

Basement is 100% open.  Stairs are on one end, stove is on the other (long ways), stove is about 12' from an outside wall.  Chimney rises through closet.  Above the 1500 sft basement is a very open floor plan kitchen/dining/living/foyer are all above, with almost no walls separating the areas.  On the end over the stove is the master suite which does have one wall.  

So basically open basement and about 1,100 sft of common areas on one end above it and master suite on the other.  

Any suggestions on the registers?  

Good news is it sounds like I can get this to work.


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## waynek (Dec 29, 2009)

MBC,

First off, you may want to check with building codes before you start cutting openings between basement and first floor, which I did in my retrofitting and new construction. There could be firewall regulations of some sort. A code I ran into was the cold air return register openings could not be underneath an electrical outlet. Also, the hot air opening above the stove had to be 36 inches from a gas line or electric wiring.

I know your basement is 1500 sq ft, but what is the dimensions of the foot print?

Your stove is rated "up to 3000 sq. ft.", however that is taking into consideration maximum btu out put in a laboratory context. I would suggest a more realistic rating of about 2250 sq. ft....now stay with me on this! The stove is in the 1500 sq. ft. basement and the basement is going to absorb a considerable amount of btu output, so if it absorbed the entire btus to achieve 72 degrees you would have to subtract that from the 2250 sq. ft., which leaves 750 sq ft.... the remaining sq. ft. ability of the stove to heat to 72 degrees. This is all hypothetic of course... but you can see where I am going with this. You just may have a two stove house.
jackpine


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