# I have a stove that can burn green pine and not get creosoted! Check it out!!



## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

This thing is made of cast high heat cement! I love that i don't have to worry about it rusting


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## DexterDay (Apr 15, 2012)

Huh??????

Me too.... 

Pine is Fine. 

Unless you think it causes Chimney Fires! !! Or causes Rusting! !!


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

i think its refractory cement. It cost me half of the price of the other same size woodboilers


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

I have seen what green wood can do to steel stoves. Its a mess!


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## BrowningBAR (Apr 15, 2012)

This thread confuses me.


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## DexterDay (Apr 15, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> This thread confuses me.


Me too? ?

!!


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## BrotherBart (Apr 15, 2012)

Looks great. It looks like it is sitting crooked.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

I dont even have to worry about the ash getting wet and leaving it in there all summer or treat the water since the huge brazed copper heat exchanger tubes are in the refractory. They are a small company in Grand Rapids MI called Heissheaters. So far its been great and have got my money back. They have gasifiers now i heard that can burn anything!


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## BrowningBAR (Apr 15, 2012)

I sleep on a pillow that only speaks in German and hates forced justification paragraphs.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

I didnt even think it would last as long as i did. I just came across this site to let people know. The steel boilers out there are ripping people off.  They test those things with perfectly dried wood. I get no creosote even when im burning green pine!


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## DexterDay (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow?!?!?! !!


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

My buddy went through like12 cord with his steel unit and im getting by with only 8 cord. I think these might be the holy grail of stoves


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

half the price and wont rust plus I can get pine cheap every day to feed this thing


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## fossil (Apr 15, 2012)

mlbeardsley said:


> I didnt even think it would last as long as i did...


 
Hmm, I fully expect both of my woodstoves to last much longer than I do.  Rather than follow my gut instinct, which is to just vaporize this whole thread, for right now I'm going to move it out of The Hearth Room into The Boiler Room.  We'll see what happens to it after that.


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## fossil (Apr 15, 2012)

OBTW, you might want to have a conversation with the Webmaster concerning fees for advertising on these forums.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

I will advertise it for them and for everyone. It was a good deal and have heard to many horror stories about steel boilers


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 15, 2012)

fossil said:


> OBTW, you might want to have a conversation with the Webmaster concerning fees for advertising on these forums.


I have heard this site was a place to comment about outdoor wood stoves and i did. You seem to want to intimidate new members. Are you the bully on here?


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## DexterDay (Apr 15, 2012)

EE





mlbeardsley said:


> I have heard this site was a place to comment about outdoor wood stoves and i did. You seem to want to intimidate new members. Are you the bully on here?


He is a Moderator. And it is there job to stop advertising.

You said to "Check it out" in your title. What "Stove" do you own? Or boiler?  

There are Rules to this site. Rules that all must follow....

If you want to "Review" a stove? Then there is a section for that also...


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## fossil (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm one of them (bullies), but only when I need to be. Most of the time I'm a sweetheart. We're naturally just a bit suspicious of anyone who just bursts onto the forums touting some product without any history here, without any information about who they are, their location, experience, qualifications, or anything else. If you've a mind to advertise on these forums for the folks who build & sell this burner that you're so enamored with, then you need, as I said before, to have a chat with the Webmaster.


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## BrowningBAR (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm still assuming this thread is some sort of WWII spy code.


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## heaterman (Apr 16, 2012)

Aside from the fact that the Heiss is a different animal you are still wasting wood by burning it in it's unseasoned state Mr Beardsley. It costs lots of BTU's to evaporate the water out of your wood if you use the heat from your fire to do it.

Just so we aren't talking in code.....this is the unit he is referring to.       

http://www.heissheaters.com/


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## stee6043 (Apr 16, 2012)

The following statement from the above referenced website is humorous at best:

"Heiss Heaters are manufactured from a revolutionary masonry material that is unaffected by extreme temperatures or corrosion. Our heaters burn cleaner and hotter as a result of their “ceramic effect”, resulting in a more efficient burn with less smoke and only minimal creosote."

I would be shocked if a young man from West Michigan was able to discover, develop and now commercialize a "revolutionary" ceramic material in a matter of a few years using (in his own words) "minimal capital".  Are there any facts and figures here?  Burns cleaner and hotter than what?

And what about this statement:

"Because the unit is constructed of a masonry material, the unit does not need an ash pan and is only required to be cleaned out once per month. An ash pan actually makes a fire burn quicker by releasing hot coals. Other units in the industry, being steel, cannot go without an ash pan because ash is a caustic substance and can create erosion of steel."

Huh?

And last....really, I'm done after this, Heiss has a 1" output pipe on a "200,000+ BTU" boiler.


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## pybyr (Apr 16, 2012)

Don't you guys realize?  It's immaculate combustion.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Apr 16, 2012)

I swear I've heard all this crap before . . .


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## maple1 (Apr 16, 2012)

I don't know - a gassifier that can burn anything sounds like a winner to me.


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## skfire (Apr 16, 2012)

from their site on the Gasifier specs:
http://www.heissheaters.com/ecoextreme-7000-gasification-boiler.php

Rated Output:500,000+ BTU per Hour
Unit Fittings:1” Copper Male Ends
?????? This must be a mistake..

Scott


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## Karl_northwind (Apr 17, 2012)

skfire said:


> from their site on the Gasifier specs:
> http://www.heissheaters.com/ecoextreme-7000-gasification-boiler.php
> 
> Rated Output:500,000+ BTU per Hour
> ...


what's wrong with a 125+ degree delta T on a boiler/water heater? 
sounds like solid engineering to me
K


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## maple1 (Apr 17, 2012)

Maybe there are multiple inlets/outlets?


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## stee6043 (Apr 17, 2012)

skfire said:


> from their site on the Gasifier specs:
> http://www.heissheaters.com/ecoextreme-7000-gasification-boiler.php
> 
> Rated Output:500,000+ BTU per Hour
> ...


 
I can only imagine the velocity of water that would be required to move a half million btu's through 1" pipe. I think I also read on that site that all of their boilers hold "10-15 gallons" of water. If I was really bored I'd love to briefly review the thermodynamics involved in transfering that much heat into into such a small amount of water.


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## DaveBP (Apr 17, 2012)

Cold fusion with a sales commision.


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## slowzuki (Apr 17, 2012)

Sounds like the Seton type BS.  How'd they work out eh?


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## skfire (Apr 17, 2012)

> I can only imagine the velocity of water that would be required to move a half million btu's through 1" pipe. I think I also read on that site that all of their boilers hold "10-15 gallons" of water. If I was really bored I'd love to briefly review the thermodynamics involved in transfering that much heat into into such a small amount of water.


 

AHAAA...eureka moment....with a velocity exceeding 32fps or even higher(maybe with anything over 50fps we make hot seltzer as well) the heat will get there faster....faster, better...

500kbtu into 1" at a 10 gallon capacity?? flowing into how many districts? one u say?
http://www.heissheaters.com/pdfs/pressurized_boiler_setup.pdf

Interesting. wondering ..is this thing reviewed by any engineering/approval agencies?


Scott


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## DexterDay (Apr 17, 2012)

When that water hits 88 miles an hour, Exactly! !! Look-out!


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## Karl_northwind (Apr 18, 2012)

Karl_northwind said:


> what's wrong with a 125+ degree delta T on a boiler/water heater?
> sounds like solid engineering to me
> K


just in case it didn't come across, that's sarcastic....


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## bupalos (Apr 18, 2012)

I think the idea of a masonry boiler is pretty good. Not sure about this one particularly, but the principle doesn't deserve the ridicule at all.

As far as the 500k btu, It's 10 gallons of water inboard, but it's a ton of concrete, and depending on the flue layout, things could work out nicely, masonry heaters fire at those kind of rates. But it certainly should be thought of as a "batch" process, and it certainly should be insulated, and it probably has to be a bit bigger than what is there.


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## skfire (Apr 18, 2012)

> I think the idea of a masonry boiler is pretty good. Not sure about this one particularly, but the principle doesn't deserve the ridicule at all.


 
Masonry principle regarding heaters,  no problem there, but boiler-wise engineering...not sure there.
Masonry mass absorption can be a detriment to the operation of the system in boiler principle design..heat should be delivered to district system and not absorbed by unit. 

Scott


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## bupalos (Apr 18, 2012)

skfire said:


> Masonry principle regarding heaters, no problem there, but boiler-wise engineering...not sure there.
> Masonry mass absorption can be a detriment to the operation of the system in boiler principle design..heat should be delivered to district system and not absorbed by unit.
> 
> Scott


 
Well, the idea is the masonry right there acts as your storage, instead of a separate tank. The tubes embedded in the masonry deliver that heat back out to the system, it's not lost or localized. But for that to work right, you'd need a lot of copper, and the outside face of the unit really does need to be insulated, and sized overall about like the equivalent water storage would be. There needs to be some kind of gravity heat dump too since the momentum on this kind of thing would be on a much higher magnitude. And the flue system needs to be more like a masonry heater, not necessarily contraflow, but there needs to be way more total flue area. Pretty sure this Heiss must lose a ton of efficiency up the stack with the short path.

If I was building a boiler, this is the basic direction I'd go, with natural draft and maybe a gravity feed design. I think 3.5 foot cylinder 7' high would be good dimensions. You could fit an upward spiraling flue of maybe 25' or 30' in there, with 3/4" vertical copper tubes all around the perimeter. An open buffer or smallish storage tank on the floor above, then distribute from that.


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## skfire (Apr 18, 2012)

Agreed, but I thought this was an outdoor unit...so you are talking massive insulation.
I happen to like the masonry idea..but not outdoors.
I still do not see 1/2 million btu vs 1" outlet and limited capacity, as favorable..especially when the mass needs to be maintained.
On the flue comments again I concur and why not do a Finnish style masonry design with dual downturns to increase efficiency and absorption.

Scott


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## heaterman (Apr 18, 2012)

skfire said:


> Agreed, but I thought this was an outdoor unit...so you are talking massive insulation.
> I happen to like the masonry idea..but not outdoors.
> I still do not see 1/2 million btu vs 1" outlet and limited capacity, as favorable..especially when the mass needs to be maintained.
> On the flue comments again I concur and why not do a Finnish style masonry design with dual downturns to increase efficiency and absorption.
> ...


 

This is true. Masonry/Stone/Soapstone heaters are nothing new and work well if done right using the stone or cement itself as the heat emitter. I have always questioned though, the efficiency of using the heated mass to heat water as a secondary output. Why not just heat the water directly via a good heat exchanger design?........"good heat exchanger design" being the key phrase here.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 18, 2012)

My unit has a baffled system in the cement so it has to travel through a few times. I think thats what makes these efficient plus they are insulated all the way around.


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## bupalos (Apr 18, 2012)

heaterman said:


> This is true. Masonry/Stone/Soapstone heaters are nothing new and work well if done right using the stone or cement itself as the heat emitter. I have always questioned though, the efficiency of using the heated mass to heat water as a secondary output. Why not just heat the water directly via a good heat exchanger design?........"good heat exchanger design" being the key phrase here.


 
Well, then you need to store the water or throttle the fire...plus any heat exchanger exposed to fire will wear out quicker than one buffered by the masonry. The advantage here is you are combining storage and unit in one, and by volume you can get the same btu storage or more out of masonry. I'm just saying, the concept doesn't deserve ridicule. Done right it would have some pros and some cons versus our existing gassers, one pro being it should be able to be designed to last significantly longer, another that it could be self-built easier.


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## bupalos (Apr 18, 2012)

skfire said:


> Agreed, but I thought this was an outdoor unit...so you are talking massive insulation.
> I happen to like the masonry idea..but not outdoors.
> I still do not see 1/2 million btu vs 1" outlet and limited capacity, as favorable..especially when the mass needs to be maintained.
> On the flue comments again I concur and why not do a Finnish style masonry design with dual downturns to increase efficiency and absorption.
> ...


 
Agreed on the outlet and the site. One reason not to do a contraflow would be that they have hot tops (where the gasses turn back down is a hotspot) whereas at least if you want to thermosiphon you might be better off with an ascending heat gradient in the mass. Another is it's just a much more complex build. I'm envisioning a simple poured in place cylinder with a winding flue made of flexible flue liner spiraling just inside the ring of copper tubes.


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## maplewood (Apr 19, 2012)

heaterman said:


> Aside from the fact that the Heiss is a different animal you are still wasting wood by burning it in it's unseasoned state Mr Beardsley. It costs lots of BTU's to evaporate the water out of your wood if you use the heat from your fire to do it.
> 
> Just so we aren't talking in code.....this is the unit he is referring to.
> 
> http://www.heissheaters.com/


 
Thanks for this link.  I don't know why, but I didn't see any links or pics of what this thread was about until you posted.
I welcome the discussion of this new-to-me gasser.
I trust the moderator to keep the sales pitch to a medium level, and let us chime in with our thoughts and experiences.

If the burning wood is drying out the green wood above it, the moisture is still making its way up the chimney.
You can't avoid the creosote, as far as I can see.
(There is no breakdown of the H2O in the 2000F gassification chamber, is there?)


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 19, 2012)

I know burning green wood loses efficiency but that's what i have a times. The reason I like mine is that I can only get green wood for free and it doesn't get creosote all over. I think it happens because the walls being masonry let the firebox get that much hotter. When their is no flacky creosote on the wall the radiant heat can transfer better. There gasiers can burn a little wet wood they said but not alot. The primary chamber he said just isn't effected by the creosote.  Also I think they are wrong about their system only holding 10-15 gals because mine has a 55 gallon storage tank.


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## heaterman (Apr 19, 2012)

maplewood said:


> Thanks for this link. I don't know why, but I didn't see any links or pics of what this thread was about until you posted.
> I welcome the discussion of this new-to-me gasser.
> I trust the moderator to keep the sales pitch to a medium level, and let us chime in with our thoughts and experiences.
> 
> ...


 
RE: green wood.

We've gone over this a few times here but it's worth refreshing some memory's.
Simply put, in order for the fuel (wood) to burn, the water/moisture has to be evaporated out of it first. Evaporating that moisture from the fuel takes a significant amount of heat, on the order of about 1000btu's per pound at the point of phase change from liquid to vapor. Looking at just that aspect of the burning process, you can quickly calculate that wood having a 45% moisture content will "steal" 45,000 btu's of heat / hundred pounds of fuel, just to effect the change from liquid entrapped in the wood itself to vapor which can escape. One could say that using wood seasoned to around 20% automatically increases the system efficiency by 25% compared to the moisture content mentioned before. When you add the heat required to bring that moisture up from ambient temperature to the phase change point (212*F) the difference is even more pronounced.


This is a tremendous loss of efficiency and waste of fuel. I don't care if it's "free" or not. It's still a poor use of the resource and causes a much dirtier burn than one would see using seasoned wood.
I really have a problem with anyone bragging or advertising that their unit will burn "green wood". Claims like that are what got us to the point of EPA involvement in the first place and to see that poor practice "encouraged" just perpetuates the black eye the entire industry has sustained. We all as wood burning consumers, dealers, manufacturers and reps need to adopt a best practice attitude and actively discourage poor use of the resource or some day that option will be taken from us. Don't believe for a minute that elimination of wood burners entirely has not been discussed.

*Don't brag on being able to burn green wood*!!

PS: to answer your second question regarding H2O breaking down. No it does not. Temperatures required to do that are more toward the "nuclear" end of the scale. (hyperbole intended)


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## leaddog (Apr 19, 2012)

30years ago I built what was called a HASSA from mother news plans. It was a simular type using sand with heat exchangers pipe running thru it. Great consept but it had some problems. The way they can get by with I in outlets is they are using the concrete as storage and only pulling off heat with the water. So you can only get say 80000btu's per hour to your house but can fire at 500000 in a burn. The problem is if you fire continueously at 500000. once the concrete gets to boiling temp you can't pull the btu's off fast enough and things will get very interesting. The HASSA used a copper and pvc pipes. 3/4 in pvc can swell to over 6in and gets very thin if you over fire and get the sand (or concrete) over 240* at 25psi. Copper pipes can and will become unsoddered if the sand or what ever gets to high from putting in to many btu's. Been there done that. 3/4 pipe just won't move enough btu's for my house so I had to fire it on the edge and had baseboard also so needed 180*+. Heated the place for two years before it destroyed it self. Rebuilt it, ran with all copper, outside shell busted apart from thermo expansion and contraction , sand ran out letting chimney sag and tried to burn the shed down. Gave up...........
If I remember in the instruction it said. Build small fires and don't over fire. guess I missed that.
The point I'm trying to make is it may put out 500000btu's but with out proper piping size and pumps and distrubution you better have a place for those btu's. I do think they will burn cleaner than typical OWB's but you won't have the efficency as a commercial engineered gasser.
leaddog


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## Fred61 (Apr 19, 2012)

It would be interesting to be around to hear the noises that would come from that unit firing at 500,000 btu if the circulator should fail although I probably wouldn't want to be that close.


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## pybyr (Apr 19, 2012)

bupalos said:


> by volume you can get the same btu storage or more out of masonry.


 
This is one of those things that one would assume to be self-evident, given that masonry is more dense than water, but it is incorrect by a large margin.

You have to go by the "specific heat" of the material, and water's specific heat is dramatically more than masonry (about a 5:1 ratio). Don't believe me? Ask the masonry industry:

http://www.cmacn.org/energy/basics/mat_sh.htm

I'm not trying to be snippy, but it _is_ essential to tie discussions and advocacy back to physics, not supposition.

Water's physical characteristics, specifically in regard to heat retention and heat-transfer, would be considered truly extraordinary in comparison to nearly all other materials (except for really exotic phase change materials), except we're all so used to having the stuff fall out of the sky that we don't stop to realize that it has these unique properties.


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## stee6043 (Apr 19, 2012)

This whole thread still baffles me a bit. 

M Beardsley, you clearly must be the same Marsha Beardsley who left a rave review on the Heiss website, correct?  And it just so happens the person two or three "testomonials" above you on the website is the owner of Heiss Heaters according to a quick lookup of the LLC registration.  Are you being compensated somehow for your efforts to evangalize the hearth.com masses as to the greatness of Heiss?

I hate to say it but anyone that comes to this site or any other wood burning site and claims that the material used to construct a boiler can somehow magically enable it to burn green wood creosote-free is just plain old misinformed.  And it comes off as rubish when we read it.  Furthermore, how many OWB operators really care about creosote?  Most OWB owners I know expect a chimney fire once or twice a year - it cleans the pipe out quite nicely according to them.

If you want to bring some data that might back-up the performance claims of Heiss we'd absoltuely love to see it and discuss it.  But I think anyone on this site would suggest that Heiss Heaters stop pushing the creosote marketing angle and the "steel boiler bashing" if they ever want to be taken seriously by a knowledgeable group of wood burners.


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## Karl_northwind (Apr 19, 2012)

pybyr said:


> This is one of those things that one would assume to be self-evident, given that masonry is more dense than water, but it is incorrect by a large margin.
> 
> You have to go by the "specific heat" of the material, and water's specific heat is dramatically more than masonry (about a 5:1 ratio). Don't believe me? Ask the masonry industry:
> 
> ...


 
the thing that makes masonry heaters work is that the inner bits get to a couple thousand degrees during and after a burn, unfortunately with water we're limited by the working delta T, that being the difference between the minimum useable temp and the boiling point. masonry for all it's good and bad points, doesn't have a phase change, (at least that we're going to reach in this situation)

there are some electric off peak storage units that heat (tons of) firebrick up to 2000F and store the heat there for later use.
water is just about the best, in that it holds a lot of heat, is easy to move around, is cheap, only mildly corrosive, and works in the ranges we want to work in. as long as you can keep it from boiling and or freezing, good to go.


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## pybyr (Apr 19, 2012)

Just so I am clear, I think that masonry heaters are an amazing technology- relatively low tech to build, relatively simple to run, quite efficient, and need no pumps, electricity, or complex controls- I just don't see that they necessarily make a revolutionarily different boiler (or even an optimal boiler).


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## heaterman (Apr 19, 2012)

pybyr said:


> This is one of those things that one would assume to be self-evident, given that masonry is more dense than water, but it is incorrect by a large margin.
> 
> You have to go by the "specific heat" of the material, and water's specific heat is dramatically more than masonry (about a 5:1 ratio). Don't believe me? Ask the masonry industry:
> 
> ...


 

Exactly. If you're going to use water as the heat transfer medium, why not just heat it directly and install enough storage for the parameters of the job?


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## pybyr (Apr 19, 2012)

heaterman said:


> Exactly. If you're going to use water as the heat transfer medium, why not just heat it directly and install enough storage for the parameters of the job?


 At risk of playing devil's advocate against myself, I _can_ envision situations in which a hybrid masonry heater/ boiler might make sense- such as when the masonry heater part of the unit is located in a rather large relatively open space/ spaces (so that it can spread its heat easily and directly by unrestricted radiation and convection) but you also want to be able to send heat to a different area that would not be effectively warmed directly by the masonry heater.  Seems like you lose the stone-simple near-failproof characteristics of the masonry heater in the process though, without fully gaining the ability that a high efficiency boiler + well insulated water storage yields of bring able to efficiently"bank" large quantities of heat for release only when or at the rate that is desired.  Different strokes for different folks.


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## Fred61 (Apr 19, 2012)

pybyr said:


> This is one of those things that one would assume to be self-evident, given that masonry is more dense than water, but it is incorrect by a large margin.
> 
> You have to go by the "specific heat" of the material, and water's specific heat is dramatically more than masonry (about a 5:1 ratio). Don't believe me? Ask the masonry industry:
> 
> ...


 Water has a specific heat of 1 (one). You'd think you can't go lower than that, BUT, all other materials with the exception of phase change materials, ie, eutectic salts are lower in specific heat than water.
Water is truly a unique material. It expands when it's heated and it expands when it freezes. And it can be turned in to ice cubes to cool my scotch. We're lucky to have it!


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## Fred61 (Apr 19, 2012)

pybyr said:


> At risk of playing devil's advocate against myself, I _can_ envision situations in which a hybrid masonry heater/ boiler might make sense- such as when the masonry heater part of the unit is located in a rather large relatively open space/ spaces (so that it can spread its heat easily and directly by unrestricted radiation and convection) but you also want to be able to send heat to a different area that would not be effectively warmed directly by the masonry heater. Seems like you lose the stone-simple near-failproof characteristics of the masonry heater in the process though, without fully gaining the ability that a high efficiency boiler + well insulated water storage yields of bring able to efficiently"bank" large quantities of heat for release only when or at the rate that is desired. Different strokes for different folks.


If the boiler tubes are burried in the masonry the heat needs to be transferred to the concrete and then to the copper to the water. If you have a bucket of water and a concrete block of equal size heated to the same temperature with a copper tube running through each, which will heat the flow through the copper faster. I don't understand how you can take the heat off fast enough while firing at 500,000 btus. Concrete is not a good transfer medium.
I do have to say though that Heiss beat me to my lifelong dream. They figured out how to burn water.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 19, 2012)

pybyr said:


> This is one of those things that one would assume to be self-evident, given that masonry is more dense than water, but it is incorrect by a large margin.
> 
> You have to go by the "specific heat" of the material, and water's specific heat is dramatically more than masonry (about a 5:1 ratio). Don't believe me? Ask the masonry industry:
> 
> ...


 Im sure water is more dense but it cant heat up past 212 without turning to a gas. You heat up this refractory to a 1000 degree and let all that copper in the refractory absorb it Am i wrong?.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 19, 2012)

If they didn't work then they wouldn't be still in business. My heater works great and only use 7or 8 cord usually so obviously they work great.


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## chuckie5fingers (Apr 19, 2012)

Do you guy think this could be....................






POOK??!!??!!


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## chuckie5fingers (Apr 19, 2012)

7-8 cords is 3-4 full years for me burning 24/7 heating 1800 sq. ft.

chuck


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## pen (Apr 19, 2012)

Does this thread have anywhere constructive to go from here?

If so, show it fast.


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## salecker (Apr 20, 2012)

mlbeardsley said:


> If they didn't work then they wouldn't be still in business. My heater works great and only use 7or 8 cord usually so obviously they work great.


I used 7-8 cords....
 but it was spruce...
 and i'm in the Yukon,we get 40 below in the winter.


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## maple1 (Apr 20, 2012)

pen said:


> Does this thread have anywhere constructive to go from here?
> 
> If so, show it fast.


 
Constructive? Not sure on that but I think the entertainment value has merit.


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## pen (Apr 20, 2012)

maple1 said:


> Constructive? Not sure on that but I think the entertainment value has merit.


 
I can appreciate that


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## heaterman (Apr 20, 2012)

Simply put.......Water is the heat transfer medium in any boiler be it a normal unit or the one in question here.

The difference in a regular boiler and this one is that of the medium used for storage.

When you start talking about those two factors, storage and transfer, you have to look at a little item called specific heat.
Specific heat refers to how much heat needs to be applied to a substance to raise the temperature a specific amount, usually 1 degree and is sometimes expressed in btu/lb or again as Kj/Kg. The higher the specific heat of a substance the more heat it will "hold". If you look at the links for specific heat-fluids and solids you can see what a difference there is between water and almost any other commonly encountered substance either fluid or solid. Thus a given amount of water will both hold and/or transfer far more heat than about anything.

The advantage that cementous substances hold over water is that they will "operate" under a wide range of temperatures. Because of their low specific heat value they are also good insulators which is why firebrick is used as protection in certain areas of a boiler or to focus heat in a given place. In short you can get it hot enough to avoid condensation/creosote whereas a surface backed by water will always be below the dew point of the flue gas and it is left up to the designer of the firebox/heat exchanger to engineer a way around that problem.......which can and has been done.
Obviously the designer of the Heiss chose to avoid the creosote issue entirely by keeping all the surfaces in the boiler above the dewpoint of the flue gas. Not a bad thing in and of itself but again, cementous products have a relatively low specific heat function so the have to be driven to extreme temperatures in order to store the same amount of heat as a given volume of water................shiza!....... I shouldn't try to elucidate at this late hour of the evening.......I will simply leave it at that with the links to info below for your weekend reading pleasure.


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-work-energy-d_292.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-fluids-d_151.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-solids-d_154.html


Below is a nifty little calculator you can download that will convert a unit of about anything to anything else.....included to help sort out life's vexing problems such as converting pennyweight to stones,  gigabytes to nibbles,  parsecs to furlongs, ergs to horsepower and the heat of the beat of the meat.........nah...........I just made that up.... 

http://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/


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## ewdudley (Apr 21, 2012)

skfire said:


> Rated Output:500,000+ BTU per Hour
> Unit Fittings:1” Copper Male Ends
> ?????? This must be a mistake..
> 
> ...


 

No reason to speculate, just assume the maximum, calculate deltaT from that, and see what kind of crazy number we get.

8 ft / sec is within normal limits, noisy perhaps, but quite doable.

You have: (500000 btu/hr)/(pi*(1.0 inch/2.0)^2)/(8ft/sec)*(((1.0/8.33)degF gal)/btu)
You want: degF
51.06

So 51 degF deltaT at 8 ft per second flow through a 1 inch line? Pushing it perhaps, but not a bogus claim really.


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## 2.beans (Apr 21, 2012)

slowzuki said:


> Sounds like the Seton type BS. How'd they work out eh?


why are catergorizing the seton boiler to this. my seton operates just like i was told it would. most of the problems with seton style boilers is in correct use incorrect install or sizing.


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## mlbeardsley (Apr 21, 2012)

see their gasifier burnig saw dust!


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## McKraut (Apr 21, 2012)

mlbeardsley said:


> Im sure water is more dense but it cant heat up past 212 without turning to a gas. You heat up this refractory to a 1000 degree and let all that copper in the refractory absorb it Am i wrong?.


 
 Water can be heated above 212 degrees as long a it is under pressure. If it is released to the open atmosphere, it will immediately turn to steam (look for a chart for the triple point for water for more info). Also, as previoulsy stated, high-temperature electrolysis (splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen) is a process that is usually done in conjunction with nuclear power.
 I visited the links and I'm still not impressed with their products.

 Just my 2 cents....


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## My Oslo heats my home (Apr 22, 2012)

Interesting read to say the least. That fellow is hell bent on making his product known.


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## jpgarnva (Apr 22, 2012)

Bck to original title.  We have a stove also that will burn green pine, and any other thing as a matter of fact.  We mainly use it on those frigid days at the jobsite.  A 55 gallon drum with holes around the perimeter at the bottom for intake air.  No chimney, no cresote issues.  When you get cold, walk over and warm yourself.  pretty much the same principle as his unit.


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## DexterDay (Apr 22, 2012)

Wow... This just so happened to pop up on my Local CL. (Burns anything! !!)  Talk about pushing product 
 Dont want to post a Link. But under Toledo Ohio Craiglist, (I searched Wood pellets and it came up)

Burning green pine is not something to be proud of. Bad burning habits are not taught here. Shouldn't even be thought of.


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## webbie (Apr 22, 2012)

Looks like some folks aren't too happy with 'em........
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/164928.htm
Personally, I see a POS or a Scam......although I am not accusing the company of anything. I suspect they think it's the greatest thing around....I've seen many such magic stoves over the last 30 years. None of them are around today.


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