# Trying another LED bulb



## semipro (Mar 6, 2014)

Found these last weekend at HD. 





http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...-A19-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-433755/204730356
Bought one for $10 and tried it out.  The light quality reminded me very much of the warm light put out by incandescents, more so than the other LEDs we're using presently.  
It has an interesting shape, relatively flat, which may be useful somehow.


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## Highbeam (Mar 6, 2014)

Is it directional?


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## semipro (Mar 7, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Is it directional?


No.  Which is strange given the shape.


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## begreen (Mar 12, 2014)

Cree just came out with a 100w 1600 lumens bulb. It will be selling at Home Sleepo for $19.95

http://reviews.cnet.com/specialized-electronics/cree-100-watt-replacement/4505-3505_7-35843385.html


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## peakbagger (Mar 12, 2014)

I bit the bullet on a LED flood to replace a 300 watt halogen. The flood is up on a pole and the snow plow driver shakes the pole on occasion while winging back the piles and the halogen bulb falls out. If the LED works it will save climbing up a ladder. Waiting for a warm day to install


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## Highbeam (Mar 12, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> I bit the bullet on a LED flood to replace a 300 watt halogen. The flood is up on a pole and the snow plow driver shakes the pole on occasion while winging back the piles and the halogen bulb falls out. If the LED works it will save climbing up a ladder. Waiting for a warm day to install


 
Does the LED flood have the same output as that halogen? Those buggers are bright! and hot!


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## peakbagger (Mar 12, 2014)

Supposedly it does have equivalent lumens. I have see these high wattage LED flood used for portable lighting and they throw out a lot of light.


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## Laszlo (Mar 13, 2014)

begreen said:


> Cree just came out with a 100w 1600 lumens bulb. It will be selling at Home Sleepo for $19.95
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/specialized-electronics/cree-100-watt-replacement/4505-3505_7-35843385.html


Great news! And in addition to that, $3-4 price cuts across almost their entire line. New price for the 60W equivalent will be $9.97, while both the 75W and the 60W TW are dropping to $15.97.

I managed to snag a bunch of Philips SlimLine bulbs for $5 each. They're remarkably lightweight for LEDs, but otherwise they fail to impress. From the few I've tested out, too many emit a loud buzzing while on (even in non-dimmable lamps). Maybe I got a bad batch, but that's a dealbreaker for me in almost all use cases. Some of my old 12.5W Philips AmbientLEDs were silent to start, but developed a faint buzz as time went by. The SlimLine experience right out of the box makes me worry these initial buzzers could grow worse...


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## peakbagger (Mar 13, 2014)

A general comment about LEDS is I am going to end up with a box full of CFLs, its easy to get used to the diminished performance as CFLs get older especially when in a cool house. I swapped in a few LEDs and wow what a difference.


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## semipro (Mar 13, 2014)

Laszlo said:


> I managed to snag a bunch of Philips SlimLine bulbs for $5 each. They're remarkably lightweight for LEDs, but otherwise they fail to impress. From the few I've tested out, too many emit a loud buzzing while on (even in non-dimmable lamps). Maybe I got a bad batch, but that's a dealbreaker for me in almost all use cases. Some of my old 12.5W Philips AmbientLEDs were silent to start, but developed a faint buzz as time went by. The SlimLine experience right out of the box makes me worry these initial buzzers could grow worse...


I only bought the one Phillips SlimLine and its installed in a lamp very close to my where I sit.  I hear no noise from it. 
I'll have to ask my wife and kids to see if they hear it buzzing.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 13, 2014)

Pricing still has a ways to go. And some of the Leds iv replaced actually had a higher watt usage than the CFL bulbs i took out. The power savings vary widely.


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## firebroad (Mar 14, 2014)

I bought a bunch of CFL's a few years ago at ALDI when they had them for $2-3 each.  Got about 6- 60w equivalent, 4-100.  I will use those until the price comes down on the LED's.  I put the CFL's in in 2006, only had to replace one so far.  This may take a while.


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## Highbeam (Mar 14, 2014)

firebroad said:


> I bought a bunch of CFL's a few years ago at ALDI when they had them for $2-3 each.  Got about 6- 60w equivalent, 4-100.  I will use those until the price comes down on the LED's.  I put the CFL's in in 2006, only had to replace one so far.  This may take a while.



You're like the guy still running an obnoxious tube tv with the poor definition and sqare shape and higb power consumtion because "it still works". At some point the suffering just isnt worth it. Yes, i still have a crt tv too for the kids.


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## firebroad (Mar 14, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> You're like the guy still running an obnoxious tube tv with the poor definition and sqare shape and higb power consumtion because "it still works". At some point the suffering just isnt worth it. Yes, i still have a crt tv too for the kids.


Am I?  I thought I was doing a good thing by replacing my incandescent bulbs with CFL's...
I guess it is time to upgrade again?


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 14, 2014)

The power savings from LED is negligible if your replacing CFLs .Whenever you see a comparison electric savings they always compare LEDs to regular Incandescence bulbs which most people dont even use and cant even buy anymore. The price difference between the CFLs and LEDs is still to great for any kind of meaningful payback. No way im going to spend $100 on 4 can bulbs to save $5 in electric cost over several years time.


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## TradEddie (Mar 14, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> No way im going to spend $100 on 4 can bulbs to save $5 in electric cost over several years time.



Me neither, but I'll pay $7.99 for a bulb that comes instantly to full brightness in any weather, and saves money over an incandescent. I've got outdoor lights, bathroom lights and closet lights where I'll pay for the advantages of LED. All the other places will keep CFLs until they die. 

TE


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 14, 2014)

TradEddie said:


> Me neither, but I'll pay $7.99 for a bulb that comes instantly to full brightness in any weather, and saves money over an incandescent. I've got outdoor lights, bathroom lights and closet lights where I'll pay for the advantages of LED. All the other places will keep CFLs until they die.
> TE


A CFL that size can be had for less than a Dollar.  Iv seen 8 paks for  $3  I use them everywhere even in outdoor lights.


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## Slow1 (Mar 14, 2014)

I've swapped out almost all our lights to LEDs.  One flood outside I put an LED flood in.  While the lumens were not quite as high as the original, the color is much more blue (it is a two bulb flood fixture so I can see them side by side).  This is an interesting effect, but it 'seems' much brighter in terms of functional light.  I think our eyes are more sensitive to blue or something... Anyway, I'm quite happy with the new flood.

My 'problem' now is finding a home for all the CFL's that I replaced throughout the house when I found LEDs on sale.  I need to get rid of them in a responsible manner... not sure what that will be yet.  If anyone wants a pile of random bulbs (incandescent as well as CFL) and are willing to pay shipping... ha.


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## firebroad (Mar 14, 2014)

Slow1 said:


> I've swapped out almost all our lights to LEDs.  One flood outside I put an LED flood in.  While the lumens were not quite as high as the original, the color is much more blue (it is a two bulb flood fixture so I can see them side by side).  This is an interesting effect, but it 'seems' much brighter in terms of functional light.  I think our eyes are more sensitive to blue or something... Anyway, I'm quite happy with the new flood.
> 
> My 'problem' now is finding a home for all the CFL's that I replaced throughout the house when I found LEDs on sale.  I need to get rid of them in a responsible manner... not sure what that will be yet.  If anyone wants a pile of random bulbs (incandescent as well as CFL) and are willing to pay shipping... ha.


Perhaps you could dontate them to a church or charitable organization?


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## peakbagger (Mar 14, 2014)

NH makes LEDs affordable $3 a pop. I probably could fill a box of CFLs, some never used, to donate to a worthy cause.


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## firebroad (Mar 14, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> NH makes LEDs affordable $3 a pop. I probably could fill a box of CFLs, some never used, to donate to a worthy cause.


Wow, that is a good price, are they only 60 watt equivalency?


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## Slow1 (Mar 14, 2014)

I recently was offered a bundle of 3 LED bulbs and one of those power strips that turn off all other outlets based on draw drop on a control plug - $10/set.  I figured it was worth the risk to get 2 of them (the limit).  The power strips are decent (if a bit oversized) and it is nice ot power off the DVD player etc when powering off the TV.  I haven't found a use for the second one yet.  I had figured that at about $3.33/LED bulb it wasn't a bad deal with the power strips as bonus.  The bulbs are nice - I have 4 in a bathroom fixture that has a dimmer and it works very well for them.  Much better than some of the earlier dimmable LEDs I bought.

This offer came from some mailing list I subscribed to from the utility company (or directly from util company, don't know for sure).  Point here being, watch for these offers as I'm sure that various areas will have them as they push to get this technology out.


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## peakbagger (Mar 14, 2014)

http://catalog.nhsaves.com/-top-menu-/catalog page 8,. The $3 bulbs looks to be 100 watt equivalents. Looks like the 60 watt equivalents are $7. NH REGGI money subsidizes them.

I have gotten;  a rebate for solar panels, my house audited and insulation upgraded for about $2k, a $900 rebate on a mini split and lots of bulbs all from REGGI money. What the heck they are offering it so I might as well grab it.


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## Grisu (Mar 14, 2014)

I also still have plenty of CFLs lying around. Usually snapped up when they were on sale for less than $5 by our utility. I don't mind the light "quality" but the slow start can bother me. Thus, I started to mix them with LEDs. For example: in the kitchen we have 4 recessed lights. The CFLs took about 30 s before they were really bright. I replaced two with LEDs and now have instant brightness and energy savings. Similar thing in our bathroom fixture. That way I can use off the CFLs without just chucking money into the trashcan.


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## Where2 (Mar 15, 2014)

Grisu said:


> I replaced two CFLs with LEDs and now have instant brightness and energy savings. Similar thing in our bathroom fixture. That way I can use off the CFLs without just chucking money into the trashcan.



My spare CFLs are destined for my collection of ceiling fans that I have begun to retrofit with Edison medium bases to relamp with CFL or LED bulbs. I still have four fans in my house that are lamped with incandescent bulbs, because they use candelabra base bulbs. (I refuse to pay double or triple the price of a normal CFL for the same product with a smaller base, and I haven't seen any ~800 lumen LEDs with a candelabra base.)


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## velvetfoot (Mar 15, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> I have gotten;  a rebate for solar panels, my house audited and insulation upgraded for about $2k, a $900 rebate on a mini split and lots of bulbs all from REGGI money. What the heck they are offering it so I might as well grab it.


Somebody's paying for it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2014)

A few months ago i got some free toyota tsusho 60 W Equiv. LEDs from my power company for changing to email billing. I immediately went on amazon to find the retail price of these bulbs. They were $24.99 Each. No way would i have paid that for a 60 W Equiv LED bulb. I got 7 free bulbs so no harm.  I just went to the same site now and the same bulb is $12.95 with free shipping. Big drop in about 4 months time. Still too high though for a 60 w Eq. THey are dimmable but use 13.5 watts ,my 60 watt Cfls only use 13.


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## Highbeam (Mar 15, 2014)

Where2 said:


> My spare CFLs are destined for my collection of ceiling fans that I have begun to retrofit with Edison medium bases to relamp with CFL or LED bulbs. I still have four fans in my house that are lamped with incandescent bulbs, because they use candelabra base bulbs. (I refuse to pay double or triple the price of a normal CFL for the same product with a smaller base, and I haven't seen any ~800 lumen LEDs with a candelabra base.)



My fan bul s are hard to replace so i did find some candelabra base led but they are decorative and well under 800 lumens. Functional. Cheap enough, i bought  them from costco.


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## begreen (Mar 15, 2014)

firebroad said:


> Am I?  I thought I was doing a good thing by replacing my incandescent bulbs with CFL's...
> I guess it is time to upgrade again?



We have several CFLs in appropriate locations where the lights stay on for hours once turned on. The 30 sec. warmup is insignificant. The color temp is not bad at all. We also have a full set of replacement bulbs that are going to get used for these lights before an LED replacement goes in. That should be in 5-7 years. I have a couple trial LED bulbs in as a test and they are nice, but we'll use up what we have before changing out.


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## TradEddie (Mar 15, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> A CFL that size can be had for less than a Dollar.  Iv seen 8 paks for  $3  I use them everywhere even in outdoor lights.


I think you're deliberately missing the point. I will keep CFLs in use in many places too, but for example when I walk out to my unheated garage, it's 0F outside, I want to turn on a light, see what I want and get back inside. If I was using CFLs, I'd be doing that with something resembling pink candlelight for the first two minutes. I too am waiting for the price to drop, especially on can lights, but in some applications, it's already worth it for the functional advantages, not the energy savings.

TE


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## jebatty (Mar 16, 2014)

A little different take on replacing CFL's with LED's. I replaced nearly all CFL's with 40W and 60W equivalent LED's, the 40's at $3/each with a power co rebate and the 60's at $10/each; 6.5W and 9.5W power draw. The CFL's replaced had lots of good life in them yet. My way too simple thought is that I readily spend $2 on a double *nickers bar, or $3+ on a bag of *heetos, or $4 on a box of over-processed/sugar loaded breakfast cereal, all total wastes, and barely think about it. Now a few $$ on something that actually saves me money, provides a sniff of fresher air through lower carbon emissions, and provides better light, that's money worth "wasting" on CFL replacement.


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## Highbeam (Mar 16, 2014)

Would be nice if we could donate them to someone still using incandescents.


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## HybridFyre (Mar 19, 2014)

The EnergizeCT program finally hit the retail shelves in CT instead of just home energy audits. I went to Home Depot and they set up a few stations with certain brands of LED's marked down substantially. The best deal is the CREE 60 watt equivalent (9.5 watt) which they have marked down from $12 to $3.97. Great price. I picked up a bunch today.


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## Clarkbug (Mar 22, 2014)

Just wanted to add for anyone in the area...  Bennington, VT Home Depot has the Cree 60w soft white LED bulbs for 1.98 each.  Seems like a screaming good deal.


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## begreen (Mar 22, 2014)

Wow, that is a good price.


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## Clarkbug (Mar 22, 2014)

begreen said:


> Wow, that is a good price.


Yeah I'm tempted to go buy a few boxes at that price.....


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 22, 2014)

Clarkbug said:


> Just wanted to add for anyone in the area...  Bennington, VT Home Depot has the Cree 60w soft white LED bulbs for 1.98 each.  Seems like a screaming good deal.


Now yer talkin!


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## hoverwheel (Mar 23, 2014)

I'll just point out that when I started shaving, you bought a carrier and then a pack of about a trillion blades that would last you the rest of your life. When they dulled you just shoved it through the little slot in the back of the medicine cabinet and it feel into the wall between the studs.

Then they came out with the disposables and double blades and triple and quad blades. I swear I saw a Gillette 18 blade super scraper at the pharmacy the other day.

Every time they come out with a new system you suddenly need a new handle. Contoured for your comfort. And a bargain at only $10! While the refill pack is only $35 or so...

There was nothing wrong with incandescents until somebody decided CFLs were so much better. And when we all got suckered into that there are the LEDs coming out.

I can't wait to see what they come out with next. Plutonium fluoride bulbs?

/curmudgeon mode off


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## Grisu (Mar 23, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> I'll just point out that when I started shaving, you bought a carrier and then a pack of about a trillion blades that would last you the rest of your life. When they dulled you just shoved it through the little slot in the back of the medicine cabinet and it feel into the wall between the studs.
> 
> Then they came out with the disposables and double blades and triple and quad blades. I swear I saw a Gillette 18 blade super scraper at the pharmacy the other day.
> 
> ...



Yep, there is: incandescents use 4x the amount of electricity than CFLs or LEDs. That wastes precious resources which is the same reason that the "million-blade razor war" is just nonsense and should not be supported by our buying decisions.


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## Grisu (Mar 23, 2014)

Clarkbug said:


> Just wanted to add for anyone in the area...  Bennington, VT Home Depot has the Cree 60w soft white LED bulbs for 1.98 each.  Seems like a screaming good deal.



Sorry to pop the bubble but that price is almost certainly subsidized by Efficiency Vermont and does not really mean LEDs are getting cheaper overall. Similar deals could be found a few years back, when CFLs were still very expensive.


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## semipro (Mar 23, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> I'll just point out that when I started shaving, you bought a carrier and then a pack of about a trillion blades that would last you the rest of your life. When they dulled you just shoved it through the little slot in the back of the medicine cabinet and it feel into the wall between the studs.
> 
> Then they came out with the disposables and double blades and triple and quad blades. I swear I saw a Gillette 18 blade super scraper at the pharmacy the other day.
> 
> ...


I get your point about  razors.  In fact, I recently invested in an old safety razor to combat blade costs. 

I don't get the comparison to LED bulbs though.  
We're talking about a technology that decreases overall costs of ownership over the product lifetime and one that is a 'plug in' replacement for older technology.  
There are no changes in power requirements or mounting for the newer bulbs.


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## semipro (Mar 23, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Sorry to pop the bubble but that price is almost certainly subsidized by Efficiency Vermont and does not really mean LEDs are getting cheaper overall. Similar deals could be found a few years back, when CFLs were still very expensive.


I checked at our local HD yesterday and could find no comparable deals on LED bulbs. 
No state subsidies here.  Of course Virginia is the state that put additional taxes on hybrid vehicles so expectations are low.


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## Clarkbug (Mar 23, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Sorry to pop the bubble but that price is almost certainly subsidized by Efficiency Vermont and does not really mean LEDs are getting cheaper overall. Similar deals could be found a few years back, when CFLs were still very expensive.



No bubble popping here, and no claims made that LEDs are coming down in price.  Just letting anyone in that area know that they can get a good deal on bulbs should they choose to use them.


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## Grisu (Mar 23, 2014)

Clarkbug said:


> No bubble popping here, and no claims made that LEDs are coming down in price.  Just letting anyone in that area know that they can get a good deal on bulbs should they choose to use them.



I just wanted to avoid that people run to their local HD in the assumption they will find a similar deal. That price is only good for VT.



semipro said:


> No state subsidies here. Of course Virginia is the state that put additional taxes on hybrid vehicles so expectations are low.



Not really a state subsidy. There is an efficiency charge on each electric power bill. Those funds are used to subsidize energy audits, give rebates on appliances, making CFLs or now LEDs affordable etc. Mass has a similar program, my guess is several other states, too. It just depends what voters rather spend their money on: Current consumption or investments for future prosperity by reducing resource use.


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## Clarkbug (Mar 23, 2014)

Grisu said:


> I just wanted to avoid that people run to their local HD in the assumption they will find a similar deal. That price is only good for VT.



Good Point.  This is definitely a YMMV deal, since the other CREE bulbs there are subsidized to 4.97, and even that is cheaper than the other HDs in other states.  I dont know if this is a closeout or just an increased subsidy for that particular bulb.


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## semipro (Mar 23, 2014)

I just came across this report while looking for something unrelated. 
Its a Dept. of Energy report summary on the the life cycle costs of different bulbs.  IMO, life cycle analyses provide the best decision-making info. 
Its an easy short read. Check out the graphs if nothing else. 
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/lca_factsheet_apr2013.pdf


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## semipro (Mar 23, 2014)

Clarkbug said:


> Good Point.  This is definitely a YMMV deal, since the other CREE bulbs there are subsidized to 4.97, and even that is cheaper than the other HDs in other states.  I dont know if this is a closeout or just an increased subsidy for that particular bulb.


The Cree's at our HD are $10.


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## hoverwheel (Mar 23, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Yep, there is: incandescents use 4x the amount of electricity than CFLs or LEDs. That wastes precious resources which is the same reason that the "million-blade razor war" is just nonsense and should not be supported by our buying decisions.



The point of the shaving story was that newer is not always better. 

We ought to strive to be more energy independent. Sure. But not at gunpoint. There is no decision to be made with the new lightbulbs. They are being stuffed down our throats no matter if we want them or not. And if we don't we STILL pay for them. As you point out the government is subsidizing them to some degree, so even if you refuse to buy them you still paid.

You want to save those resources? Put a windmill on the roof of every home in America. It won't eliminate anyone's electric bill but collectively it will massively reduce our fossil fuel dependence as well as stimulate our economy in engineering, manufacturing, distribution, installation and maintenance areas. Heck of a lot more impact than a few lightbulbs.


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## Grisu (Mar 23, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> The point of the shaving story was that newer is not always better.



Agreed, but in case of lightbulbs newer IS better. 



> We ought to strive to be more energy independent. Sure. But not at gunpoint. There is no decision to be made with the new lightbulbs. They are being stuffed down our throats no matter if we want them or not. And if we don't we STILL pay for them. As you point out the government is subsidizing them to some degree, so even if you refuse to buy them you still paid.



Yes, everyone subsidizes them, because everyone benefits from lower overall energy consumption either way. Or where do you think energy prices will be in the future if we would not finally start to reduce our consumption? And it is not the government who shoves them down our throat but the majority of voters that elected those representatives that enact those bills. Most Vermonters support those programs, that's why we have them. 



> You want to save those resources? Put a windmill on the roof of every home in America. It won't eliminate anyone's electric bill but collectively it will massively reduce our fossil fuel dependence as well as stimulate our economy in engineering, manufacturing, distribution, installation and maintenance areas. Heck of a lot more impact than a few lightbulbs.



Two different things. The easiest picking is to SAVE energy (e. g. with more efficient lightbulbs). For the rest you look for REPLACING non-renewable fuel sources with renewable ones. That is why people put PV panels on their roofs. Residential windmills are far inferior in comparison: http://www.treehugger.com/renewable...e-wind-powers-butt-for-residential-usage.html


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## hoverwheel (Mar 23, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Agreed, but in case of lightbulbs newer IS better.



In your opinion. In specific areas, mine too. I like them in hallways, the porch, garage... I don't like them in bedrooms and living rooms.



> Yes, everyone subsidizes them, because everyone benefits from lower overall energy consumption either way. Or where do you think energy prices will be in the future if we would not finally start to reduce our consumption?



You're confusing what oughta be with the function of government. I'm sure you'll rationalize somehow that government should have such a role, but the form and function of our government is very clearly defined in the Constitution. It says nothing in there about forcing people into new attitudes or behaviors, to buy special lightbulbs or health insurance.

Whether we are properly recycling, efficiently using resources or a thousand other things we are mandated to do is none of the governments business.



> And it is not the government who shoves them down our throat but the majority of voters that elected those representatives that enact those bills. Most Vermonters support those programs, that's why we have them.



If most Vermonters supported the programs they wouldn't exist because the program wouldn't be needed. You'd all be doing it anyway. They exist because your pols want them.


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## TradEddie (Mar 24, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> The point of the shaving story was that newer is not always better.



We'll have to agree to disagree on the political point, there are plenty of threads already here for that, but unless your razor analogy was intended to show that consumers will eventually move to new technology if it is genuinely better, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Modern razors are infinitely better than old "safety" razors, and despite new razors being much more expensive, few people buy old style razors. 

TE


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## Highbeam (Mar 24, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> The point of the shaving story was that newer is not always better.


 
Well then you have proven that your story is irrelevant. The old incandescents, and even CFLs, are now obsolete technology due to measurable improvements in performance. Measurable and significant.


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## hoverwheel (Mar 24, 2014)

Wow you sure told me!

CFL and LED bulbs fail the most basic measure of all. Nobody wants them. If we DID want them the government would not have to subsidize them and bribe us in order to trick us into buying them. They would fly off the shelves.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 24, 2014)

I want them. That blows up your thesis.


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## Highbeam (Mar 24, 2014)

I want them. They've flown off the shelf into my house. True, they were subsidized but do you really want to know about how many things out there are also subsidized? Perhaps milk. Just because it is subsidized does not mean it is a bad product.


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## hoverwheel (Mar 24, 2014)

So buy them? I'll keep them in the halls, basement, garage...


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## begreen (Mar 24, 2014)

The greatest benefit will be using them in lights you keep on the most for the longest time. For us that is our kitchen lights. We haven't run regular incandescents there for the past 17 yrs. Initially they were replaced by halogens for a 27% wattage savings. Now we're covered in that location for at least the next 5 years with some good CFLs that I bought a batch of, but eventually LEDs will replace them. They should be under a buck by then.


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## TradEddie (Mar 24, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> Wow you sure told me!
> 
> CFL and LED bulbs fail the most basic measure of all. Nobody wants them. If we DID want them the government would not have to subsidize them and bribe us in order to trick us into buying them. They would fly off the shelves.



Paved roads and gasoline powered cars fail the most basic measure of all. Nobody wants them. If we DID want them the government would not have to subsidize them and bribe us in order to trick us into using them.

Can you provide a single advantage of an incandescent bulb over a quality LED or even CFL, for a lower lifetime cost? Easy-bake ovens excluded.

TE


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## hoverwheel (Mar 24, 2014)

I like them. 

Don't get me wrong. I do use CFLs in some areas. I already mentioned some. They put out light, usually last a long time, although I gave up trying to use them in the bathroom. They would burn out after a month at most. Old school bulbs last much longer in that room for me.

I conserve in sufficient other ways that I feel no guilt over the presence of wastrel incandescent bulbs in my house.


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## TradEddie (Mar 24, 2014)

Now you're talking specifics instead of sounding like you think it's all a commie plot, it's easier to offer suggestions. What kind of bathroom fittings do you have? Personally I've had problems with certain brands of CFLs in inverted or enclosed fittings, the rising heat damages the ballast, and in once case I found what looked like evidence of a small fire. Not good. On the other hand, I have another popular brand CFL in an inverted enclosed fitting for at least eight years with no problem.

The one advantage I would admit CFLs have over LEDs is the "investigation cost": I'm not too upset about finding a $3 CFL doesn't have as warm a color or as bright a light as advertised, but if I bought a $20 or $30 LED and discovered it wasn't good, I'd be mad. That's why threads like this are so important. (I'm still not going to pay $30)

Bathrooms, garage and basements are places I've intentionally replaced CFLs with LEDs. Both of these are high usage areas (lights left on, not necessarily used), I can't shill enough for the Cree 60W or 75W softwhite bulbs, they are great. Both are places where the instant-on advantage is important or even essential. At any price under$10 they are a no-brainer anywhere you need instant light and a nice color.

TE


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## hoverwheel (Mar 24, 2014)

TradEddie said:


> ...What kind of bathroom fittings do you have? Personally I've had problems with certain brands of CFLs in inverted or enclosed fittings, the rising heat damages the ballast, and in once case I found what looked like evidence of a small fire. Not good. On the other hand, I have another popular brand CFL in an inverted enclosed fitting for at least eight years with no problem...



The bathroom is tiled on all surfaces including the ceiling. The fixture in question was initially a basic ceramic socket later replaced with a stamped metal shell fixture with a glass globe. Both fixtures were simple surface mounts on the ceiling in the shower/tub space and controlled with a wall switch. Bathroom is on the second floor and above on the third is a very rarely used bedroom. The room vent at the time was not connected.

I guessed either condensation or vibration was shortening their life. I swapped in an incandescent and it has worked since then with predictable bulb life.


Erm... Maybe a little short of a commie plot, but I do think changes like this should happen naturally on their own merits, not forced by legislation or tax funded incentives.


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## woodgeek (Mar 25, 2014)

Why did all these great new products (cheap LED bulbs) just happen to appear around the same time as the incandescent phase-out??  Is it a coincidence?  The companies spent some serious coin developing these products, only AFTER the risk that they wouldn't sell was removed in 2007.  Everyone 'knew' that the  new LED tech was feasible back then, but it took a little govt incentive to get the show on the road.


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## TonyVideo (Mar 25, 2014)

It takes a while to prime the pump and gain acceptance on new technology. Cheaper prices come from large quantity. It makes sense to use LED for quick on off situations like closets immediately. Once my supply of CFL's are gone I will make the switch for longer on time situations.


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## Highbeam (Mar 25, 2014)

Prime the pump.


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## seige101 (Mar 25, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> I like them.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I do use CFLs in some areas. I already mentioned some. They put out light, usually last a long time, although I gave up trying to use them in the bathroom. They would burn out after a month at most. Old school bulbs last much longer in that room for me.
> 
> I conserve in sufficient other ways that I feel no guilt over the presence of wastrel incandescent bulbs in my house.



CFLs don't like to be turned on and off for short durations. They want to be left on for a little while. They perform terribly in situations like bathrooms, closets, basements and cold garages. By the time they are warmed up and up to full brightness you are turning them off.

As far as you thinking the government shouldn't regulate stuff like that we would be in an even more energy crisis. Cheap builders would skimp in insulation and the average homeowners heating/cooling bill would exceed their mortgage.

I think building codes should be stricter and especially in commercial buildings. So much money and resources are wasted heating and cooling the outside.


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## TradEddie (Mar 25, 2014)

hoverwheel said:


> The bathroom is tiled on all surfaces including the ceiling. The fixture in question was initially a basic ceramic socket later replaced with a stamped metal shell fixture with a glass globe. Both fixtures were simple surface mounts on the ceiling in the shower/tub space and controlled with a wall switch.



Both of which are probably against electrical code. An open socket certainly was, and an enclosed globe in or near a shower needs to be rated for wet locations. Forget about bulb life and electricity, your life is more important.
With an appropriately rated light fitting, you should be able to put in a CFL or LED and have it last for many many years, the heat from the incandescent might be all that's preventing water from causing a short circuit, perhaps the lower heat from CFLs was not boiling the water away and shorting out the ballast.

TE


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## velvetfoot (Mar 25, 2014)

I just bought several of the Cree 60 watters for 7 bucks each at HD.  3 dollars off from last time I got them.


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