# Growing grass in those tough bare spots in the Front Lawn? Does adding good soil help? See Answer!!



## Don2222 (Sep 14, 2011)

Hello

Well after the stump grinder did the Magnolia Tree stump grinding, I raked the chips and added 9 bags of Home Depot's cheapest loam and starter fertilizer. This planting was done after lime was added to the whole front yard. When I planted good contractor seed in the spring, I got 2 or 3 small clumps of green grass in that big void!! Very disappointing!

So this fall, I got Scott's Fall Mix with the coated seed that needs less watering and Scott's starter fertilizer. Now as and added benefit I happen to come across some super rich loam! This loam is black as pitch and even when the sun bakes it, it turns slightly gray!! I have never seen anything like it and hopefully it will be the magic that the soil needs!

Has anyone found or used some really good loam or top soil for better results in patching their lawn.

See pics below.

2nd pic is brown bare spot
1st & 3rd pics shows the bare spots covered with the black loam and seeded and fertilized


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## Don2222 (Sep 14, 2011)

Hello

BTW, transplanting the grass is working.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77670/

However I cannot do that in every single spot.

*So will Scotts and this new black loam work?

Has anyone tried this Fall Mix grass seed?*

See pics of seed and fert below:


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## billb3 (Sep 14, 2011)

I did  part of a long trench project last Fall.
Lots of clumps from hard rain washing the seed into low areas.
Seems even seed that was scratched in washed out.

I had 4 different mixes of dirt along that  trench and environmental conditions made for all the differences .
Dirt didn't make a hill of beans difference.

Luckily there was  no crabgrass seed in the dirt mix and I've been able to just let it fill in naturally on its own.


Usual culprits for me are too much and too little water.


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## Don2222 (Sep 14, 2011)

Hello

Yes, I grew up in Mass just north of Boston. The soil there was fine, we always had good grass. Here in my area of South Salem NH the soil is very sandy below the the very thin layer of top soil. My neighbor just told me that if you mix 1 bucket of Peat Moss with 2 buckets of soil in the wheel barrel, then you will have good top soil that will hold moisture!!

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/outdoors/landscaping-supplies/premier/peat-moss-3-cu-ft-53928.html

Premier 3.0 cu. ft. Peat Moss is an organic soil amendment that can be used in a variety of planting applications. Peat moss loosens compacted soil and improves water retention, aeration and drainage. It helps prevent the leaching of valuable nutrients and promotes root development. This product is Mulch and Soil Council certified.

    Helps loosen compacted soils to improve aeration and drainage
    Use to increase water retention capacity of soil
    Helps prevent leaching of valuable nutrients to promote root development
    Use to create custom soil blends
    Contains organic sphagnum peat moss for all-natural growing
    Mulch and Soil Council certified for product assurance
    Eco Options : Eco Options
    MFG Brand Name : Premier
    MFG Model # : 70976040
    MFG Part # : 70976040

Assembled Depth (in.) : 15.0 in
Assembled Height (in.) : 26.0 in
Assembled Width (in.) : 16.0 in
Bag Weight (lb.) : 65.0
Depth (in) : 15.0 in
Fertilizer Enriched : No
Height (in) : 26.0 in
Item Package Type : Bag
Item Weight : 65.0 lb
Manufacturer Warranty : None
Moisture Control : No
Mulch & Soil Council Certified : Yes
Organic : Yes
Product Type : Soil
Soil Type : Other

Customer Review
This is excellent for my carnivorous plants. Since this peat moss doesnt contain any nutrients which my plants get their nutrients from catching bugs and flies, it makes it ideal for soil. Plus this helps my clay-like soil be less hard and retains moisture and well drainage. The bag is bulky but not heavy and the price is super
Yes, I recommend this product.


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## RoseRedHoofbeats (Sep 14, 2011)

The only thing I know about lawn maintenance is which plants are okay for eating (I have a very lovely patch of wild mint and dandelion leaves are wonderful for salads) and that my neighbors groan when the weeds are taller than I am. 

However... isn't lime something that prevents plant growth? Could that be the cause?

~Rose


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## blujacket (Sep 14, 2011)

The biggest hurdle I had when sowing grass where trees have been removed is the nitrogen getting leached out of the soil.


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## Don2222 (Sep 14, 2011)

RoseRedHoofbeats said:
			
		

> The only thing I know about lawn maintenance is which plants are okay for eating (I have a very lovely patch of wild mint and dandelion leaves are wonderful for salads) and that my neighbors groan when the weeds are taller than I am.
> 
> However... isn't lime something that prevents plant growth? Could that be the cause?
> 
> ~Rose



Hello

Thanks for responding. Lime neutralizes the acid in the soil. Acid in the soil is good for pines and evergreens but not good for grass and some plants. Lime will kill moss that grows under pines but is really good in helping grass grow. Lawns in New England generally need help with lime treatments especially near pine trees!


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## Don2222 (Sep 14, 2011)

blujacket said:
			
		

> The biggest hurdle I had when sowing grass where trees have been removed is the nitrogen getting leached out of the soil.



Yes, that is why I am having so much trouble growing grass where the magnolia tree stump was. I am sure there are still a few roots under the soil. The starter Fertilizer has alot of Nitrogen so that may help. Thanks for your comments.


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## fishingpol (Sep 14, 2011)

Peat moss is low in acidity and it is mostly used for growing acid loving plants.  If you can get some good compost that has been cooked enough to kill all the weed seeds out, it is a good ammendment.  Besides adding nutrients, it is worm food.  Worms aerate the soil allowing water to penetrate deeper.  The soil should be loosened up a little with a metal rake to let the roots take hold. 

I try to avoid all chemical additives including starter fertilizer.  Synthetic ferts will help, but thte lawn needs to be balanced.  Adding lime at least once a year will help.  I'm putting down a second application of corn gluten very soon to boost the grass for the fall.  All this rain has given us a green lawn right through the summer.  I just finished the last part of a brick walk.  The area I seeded is a mix of compost and dirt from the walk excavation.  I did not use a starter fertilizer.  I did use a northeast blend grass that I hope will work nicely.

I read that others here aerate in the fall, so I may be trying that in a few weeks and all the leaves will be mulched on the lawn and into the core holes.  Talk about a worm snack!  My lawn had benefited from core aeration and composting over that.  The soil was compacted enough causing the rain to not soak in deep enough.

http://www.naturallifemagazine.com/0712/asknlpeat.html


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## semipro (Sep 15, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> Peat moss is low in acidity and it is mostly used for growing acid loving plants.  If you can get some good compost that has been cooked enough to kill all the weed seeds out, it is a good ammendment.  Besides adding nutrients, it is worm food.  Worms aerate the soil allowing water to penetrate deeper.  The soil should be loosened up a little with a metal rake to let the roots take hold.
> 
> I try to avoid all chemical additives including starter fertilizer.  Synthetic ferts will help, but thte lawn needs to be balanced.  Adding lime at least once a year will help.  I'm putting down a second application of corn gluten very soon to boost the grass for the fall.  All this rain has given us a green lawn right through the summer.  I just finished the last part of a brick walk.  The area I seeded is a mix of compost and dirt from the walk excavation.  I did not use a starter fertilizer.  I did use a northeast blend grass that I hope will work nicely.
> 
> ...



You mean "low in pH" right?


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## fishingpol (Sep 15, 2011)

er, yeah...  hard to think and write with all the commotion here.  Thank you.


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## Don2222 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hi fishingpol

Where did you get the compost? Did you buy it or make it?

This is our HD Manure. Cost is alot more than Peat Moss.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Scotts 0.75 cu. ft. Premium Humus & Manure is an all-purpose soil amendment used for lawns to improve soil aeration, drainage and the general condition of the soil. Use the humus, and manure mix for planting seeds, over-seeding and sodding. Scotts Premium provides excellent nutrition for root development.

    For planting seed, sodding and over-seeding lawns
    Helps aeration and drainage for improved soil conditions
    Provides excellent nutrition to help develop a strong root system
    Available in a 0.75 cu. ft. bag
    MFG Brand Name : Scotts
    MFG Model # : 71530750
    MFG Part # : 71530750

    Assembled Depth (in.) : 3.50 in
    Assembled Height (in.) : 23 in
    Assembled Width (in.) : 15.00 in
    Bag Capacity/Dry Volume (cu. ft.) : .75 ftÂ³
    Depth (in) : 3.50 in
    Fertilizer Enriched : Yes
    Height (in) : 23.00 in
    Item Package Type : Bag
    Item Weight : 23.55 lb
    Manufacturer Warranty : Scotts No-Quibble GuaranteeÂ®: If for any reason you, the consumer, are not satisfied after using this product, you are entitled to get your money back. Simply send us evidence of purchase and we will mail you a refund check promptly.
    Moisture Control : No
    Mulch & Soil Council Certified : Yes
    Organic : No
    Product Type : Soil Amendment
    Soil Type : Other
    Width (in) : 15.00 in

Quantity:
Not Sold Online

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## PapaDave (Sep 15, 2011)

Here's what you do. Get yourself a goat.
Put him/her in a pen over the area you'd like to grow grass. Feed and water as needed (the goat) for a few months.
Rake out the hay and start a compost pile with it. Rough up the area where goat was, spread seed. Oh yeah, get rid of the goat first.
In a few weeks, you'll have a REALLY nice patch of lawn starting. VERY green, and healthy.
The following year will be even better. I have a very nice 10'x10' area in my lawn that was unintentionally fertilized like that (but we no longer have the goat,.... he was an escape artist).
If you don't want the goat experience, just get some manure (composted) and mix with topsoil. Spread over the area to be planted. 
Same result as above, but without the goat.  
Seems to me the heavy application of nitrogen rich ferts. will give you a green lawn, but not a really healthy lawn. Balance the ferts., like maybe a 12-12-12. You don't get the quick green like you do with something like Scotts, but the lawn will love you for it.


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## fishingpol (Sep 15, 2011)

Don, 

My city used to sell it by the cubic yard but not this year.  The recent area I did was from my own composter.  Maybe call Lake Street Garden center in Salem, Landscapers Depot in Kingston.  Any nursery should carry it.  Average cubic yard is $25.00 to $35.00 plus delivery.  I have a 1/4 acre yard and 2 cubic yards was perfect.    The stuff is black gold.  It will give your lawn a lot of organic nutrients and help absorb water.   See if your DPW has it.  Town leaf and branch drop offs may sell it.

http://landscapersdepot.com/
http://www.freshwaterfarms.net/#/garden-center/4539013593


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## MasterMech (Sep 15, 2011)

Core aeration of those bare spots can really help things get moving too.  Plus the holes prevent the seed from washing too far.  You need a machine that will punch holes in a 2x2 or 2x3 inch spacing tho as the usual rotating tine machines don't have the fine spacing required.


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## Don2222 (Sep 15, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> Core aeration of those bare spots can really help things get moving too.  Plus the holes prevent the seed from washing too far.  You need a machine that will punch holes in a 2x2 or 2x3 inch spacing tho as the usual rotating tine machines don't have the fine spacing required.



Yes, after the spike aeration I use a good ole fashion Pitch Fork!


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## MasterMech (Sep 16, 2011)

Spike aeration just ain't enough.  You'd be better off pulling a 1/2" core.  To repair bare spots (which we're in the middle of now) we aerate, break up the plugs with a drag mat, seed, and drag it all again to knock the seed into the holes.  Also, if you can't go the core aeration route, Scotts PatchMaster is awesome stuff.  Much more consistent results than seed.  Just not economical over large areas tho.

Here's the process we're doing on the course right now. (The video is not our course but same machine/process.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_YTOqwwD4&NR=1[/youtube]


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## Don2222 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hello

Here is a great Fall Lawn Care Video


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## Don2222 (Sep 21, 2011)

Hello

Finally, The Answer is Yes 

Just got some nice rain yesterday and sun today in this nice September weather good for growing grass!!

So some nice new Green Grass came up with NO weeds

S0 ---  It's so Easy When You Use Good Top Soil !! ----- (Good means Rich Dark Black Top Soil )

See pics below:
Click to enlarge!!


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## MasterMech (Sep 22, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Hello
> 
> Finally, The Answer is Yes
> 
> ...



Warm soil temps and cooler ( <80 degrees F) air temps this time of the year are a big help too!


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## Don2222 (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks MasterMech

You are right good time of year especially since the crab grass does not grow!!


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## smokinj (Sep 22, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> Core aeration of those bare spots can really help things get moving too.  Plus the holes prevent the seed from washing too far.  You need a machine that will punch holes in a 2x2 or 2x3 inch spacing tho as the usual rotating tine machines don't have the fine spacing required.



Ryan core aerator- 28 is the Booom!


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## MasterMech (Sep 23, 2011)

Now Jay, a man of your taste in equipment would certainly appreciate the Toro ProCore 648!  ;-)


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## btuser (Sep 24, 2011)

For me, the lawn is a ritual that has lost its meaning.  I roll, and walk, and cut but I don't really know why.  Every year I cut back more and replace with either flowers or edible beds.  

The soil will help, but it can take 2 seasons for a patch to completely fill in.  A 40 year lawncare guy told me to do the Scotts 4-step (NOT the HD one, yes it is different) and you'll end up with a good lawn.  I mulch and put down about 1/2 the recommended fertilizer which seems to be more than enough.  For the last 2 years I've been core aerating in the fall and that seems to make the most difference, because the ground is so wet it compacts easily.


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