# Boiler in the garage?



## JP11 (Feb 18, 2012)

My garage is quickly becoming not a garage.  Cars are taking a backseat to toys and such.

I was curious the thoughts on putting the boiler and storage in the "garage"  It's pretty easy for me to move out all the gas engine stuff... and gas tanks and whatnot for flammables.   The only vehicles that could go in there are diesels.

From what I understand... to be legal I'd have to have the boiler walled off with fire rated sheetrock.  The door to the boiler "room" would have to go into a room other than the garage. (I can accomplish this by going from the boiler room to the utility room, which is walled off from the garage.

If I were to follow this code... I'd have a removable 5' section of wall.  Then I could plunk my pallets full of wood next to the boiler.

Not sure if being to code is worth it.  I think with common sense I can be just as safe without the walled off part.

Thoughts?

JP


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## nate379 (Feb 18, 2012)

My boiler is in the garage, don't see why it would be a problem.  It's 18" off the ground and pulls the cumbustion air from outside, so really minimal chance of an issue with fumes in the garage.  I did build a closet around it just to keep paint spray, welding sparks, etc off it and to clean up the garage.  It has louvred doors to allow some air movement still so nothing will overheat, plus the heat loss off it kinda heats the garage I guess.

Not all done here, but you get the idear:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...8250_100000579410319_1073646_1943633328_n.jpg


I use my garage for storage and parking cars as well.  I'm sure pretty much everyone does that.  I wish all the heating stuff was elsewhere but I don't have a basement.


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## upanovr (Feb 18, 2012)

Not sure about codes around you but I wanted to put a wood fired furnace my garage to heat the whole house but was shot down by the fact that it would make my house uninsurable. Common sense rules would not apply like the no gas or flammables in the garage. Everyone I talked to said it was a national code but I could get no real documentation just a "we could not inssure that". So i ended up putting an englander wood furnace in what used to be the garage, turned family room. I just started burning 2 weeks ago and have yet to hook it up to the existing ductwork but its blowing thru the house pretty well as is.


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## woodsmaster (Feb 18, 2012)

Talk to your insurance. If you don't do it how they want they can deny a claim should anything happen. I wanted to
put mine in the shop ,but got shot down so I put it in a shed. Lots of people around here have a wood burning device
in there shop and don't tell the insurance. , I just didn't want any excusses in the event of a claim.


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## flyingcow (Feb 18, 2012)

My ins co re-classified the garage as a wood storage facility.


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## Sawyer (Feb 18, 2012)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> My ins co re-classified the garage as a wood storage facility.



I like your pallets. Do you go 48" deep to hold a half cord per pallet?


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## infinitymike (Feb 18, 2012)

I have mine in the garage.
It is the GREATEST thing to do.
I cant imagine having it any where else.
What a mess. Dirt and wood chips from the splits, ash and soot from cleaning out.
No worries about smoke getting out during reloads.

I built a rack that holds 180-200 splits right next to the unit.
I wheel barrel the wood right in there.
Its the best.

I went through a lot of posting with guys hear at hearth.

Really best to check with your town and the state and local building codes.
Where do you live?

I read the NYS residential building code.
There is nothing against putting in a garage.
They allow "appliances" in the garage. And a gas, oil, pellet or wood boiler is considered a heating appliance.

I went to the town building dept. and spoke to the head plans examiner, I showed him a brochure from the manufacturer and gave him all the related info.
I didn't even need a permit.
I didn't need any walls or to close it off from the garage.
I had to follow some basic code rules.

It needed to be 18" above the ground to the closest combustible source.
It needed to be 12"away from any combustible wall surface. No minimum if it had fire rated sheetrock.
I forgot the distance to the ceiling.

I insulated the walls and ceiling  with Roxul insulation which is fire rated.
I installed 5/8" fire rated sheetrock.
I put mine on a 12" cement base which made it 24" to any point of combustion in the front and 36" in the back.
I have an addition to the back of the garage which is stepped down.
My fresh air intake is in the back and that is almost 48" above the floor.
I also installed a fire sprinkler head above the unit.

I have plenty of air movement with the two leaky overhead doors, the two leaky regular swing doors and the gable louver vent.

 At the same time I was installing the unit I just so happened to be switching insurance companies. ALLSTATE dropped most of there Long Island policies.
Because of the potential flood risk.
I now have Nationwide. They had an inspector out (standard protocol for new clients) he saw the unit and didn't know the rules.

Long story, longer. I needed to supply them with all the info about the unit, pictures and documentation from the installers.
I am a framing contractor and did all the carpentry and basic work and my HVAC sub did all the wiring and plumbing.
We are both licensed and insured for over 20 years. 

Here are some pics. 
PM me if you want my # to talk more about it.


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## flyingcow (Feb 18, 2012)

The pallets are 48x42's. The way the pallets are attached on the ends, gives me the full 48. My wood is 20 inches long. So I have two rows on a pallet. When we stack off of the splitter, we round the wood up. About as close to 1/2 a cord as you can get, with those pallets. When stacking in garage, just before winter sets in, I skim the wood off of the top. A couple times during the winter, I have to lift the top pallets and put them on the ground as needed.


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## Duetech (Feb 18, 2012)

I was forced to remove a boiler from my garge to satisfy a federal "reccomendation". It was not a law as the constitution prevents the fed from over riding state rights without permission blah blah blah. BUT the insurance companies eyes lit up in their never ending ploy to extract more premium value. (just like taxes premiums never seem to go down even if property values do). So after four years of being ok'd by the insurance company I was forced to shut down my boiler. End result know code and get the insurance company (or companies) in complete agreement or build a boiler house/shed to same having to do it in the future.


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## infinitymike (Feb 18, 2012)

Cave2k said:
			
		

> I was forced to remove a boiler from my garge to satisfy a federal "reccomendation". It was not a law as the constitution prevents the fed from over riding state rights without permission blah blah blah. BUT the insurance companies eyes lit up in their never ending ploy to extract more premium value. (just like taxes premiums never seem to go down even if property values do). So after four years of being ok'd by the insurance company I was forced to shut down my boiler. End result know code and get the insurance company (or companies) in complete agreement or build a boiler house/shed to same having to do it in the future.



That flippin blows.
I love this country but really hate big business.
What did you do with unit?
Are you still heating with wood?


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## Sawyer (Feb 18, 2012)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> The pallets are 48x42's. The way the pallets are attached on the ends, gives me the full 48. My wood is 20 inches long. So I have two rows on a pallet. When we stack off of the splitter, we round the wood up. About as close to 1/2 a cord as you can get, with those pallets. When stacking in garage, just before winter sets in, I skim the wood off of the top. A couple times during the winter, I have to lift the top pallets and put them on the ground as needed.



Thanks, that will be my first project this spring. I can place in the boiler room with the forks on the tractor and never touch the wood again between the splitter and the firebox.


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## flyingcow (Feb 18, 2012)

Sawyer said:
			
		

> flyingcow said:
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One of the big things about wood burning is the constant handling. My garage was big enough to have two separate stacks of 8 cord each, but it was full. i came across a great deal on my tractor. The price was a steal, plus it was 6 inches shorter than my door, FEL with enough lift capacity. But smaller tractors can easily move a pallet of wood, just need to get a 3-point hitch mounted pallet forks. You want to figure 2500lbs of green wood per pallet.


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## Sawyer (Feb 18, 2012)

flyingcow said:
			
		

> One of the big things about wood burning is the constant handling. My garage was big enough to have two separate stacks of 8 cord each, but it was full. i came across a great deal on my tractor. The price was a steal, plus it was 6 inches shorter than my door, FEL with enough lift capacity. But smaller tractors can easily move a pallet of wood, just need to get a 3-point hitch mounted pallet forks. You want to figure 2500lbs of green wood per pallet.



Good point. The JD will not handle the load green. I will use the 873 for that. After 2 years the JD should suffice for the short, low trip to the boiler.


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## woodsmaster (Feb 18, 2012)

Sawyer said:
			
		

> flyingcow said:
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 Ya it takes a good size tractor to move a half cord of green oak. I use an old 60 horse massy. It's a good size tractor with a wide front end and the front wheels barly touch the ground when I lift the pallet up. I also stack on pallets right at the splitter. It 
then goes out back for a couple years, Then right to the boiler shed by tractor. I do stack it in the boiler shed though. Not big enough area to drive the pallet in.


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## Duetech (Feb 18, 2012)

infinitymike said:
			
		

> Cave2k said:
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I have an OWB made of concrete for the present so I am still burning wood. I had to put in new pex lines for the current boiler and it's location so progress is slow but I intend on building a storage and boiler building. The OWB I have uses around 2x the wood (bioler/pex/extra wood = $ and time) so I am jealously hanging on to the EKO40 super. My attitued was much the same as yours for some reason.  :roll:


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## JP11 (Feb 18, 2012)

OK, Great.  Thanks for all the replies.

I am doing near the same thing as those good looking pallets.  Mine I put a brace across the center on top, and one acoss at the mid level. I did the math and thought it was closer to a third of a cord.  I just put up my 20th of them today.  4 are all red oak.. but the rest will be ready for next year. I just need some 4' forks for my tractor.  The 3 footers put too much pressure on the middle of the pallet when lifting.  I think I can get 4 pallets in along one side of my garage, and still have the cars in there. I figure a hand pallet jack with be able to shuffle them around in the garage and get the one I'm using right up within 3' of the stove and still not be in the way of anything else.  Humidity runs in the high 30s low 40s in the house.. and I was keeping the garage around 60 with the oil boiler.  I plan to heat the garage and basement hotter when using wood.  I figure it will really dry out the wood that last few weeks in the garage.

 I can easily take fresh air from in the basement if I need to.  

The insurance is the kicker.  I'm of the mind that I should put it in.  On the 1000 to 1 odds that IT starts my house fire... then fight it out with them.  When I spoke to them about it the first time they just simply said.. Install it to code and we're happy.

Filed my taxes yesterday.  Refund pays for the boiler.  Now I just need the welder to finish the legs and bungs on my storage!

JP


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## flyingcow (Feb 18, 2012)

I also have some pallets that have piece of 2x4 across the top. I stack 3 rows of wood on each pallet. The pallet is 48 inches wide, but i out 3 rows of 20 inch wood. Overhangs a bit, but manageable.


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## JP11 (Feb 19, 2012)

That third row of wood I think would put it over the top for the lifting ability of the tractor.  Maybe not.  I know that it doesn't work now with the short forks.  That end frow furthest from me can get leaned outboard and popped off if I overhang much off the pallet.  I bet if it was dry it wouldn't be an issue.  I'm stacking it green right from the splitter, so I think using a few more pallets, but only handing the wood that one time is more important.

I just need more nice level dry gravel to put them on.  The wonderful place I'm using now is supposet to have a "toy barn" on it.  Soon.

JP


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## Sawyer (Feb 19, 2012)

JP11 said:
			
		

> That third row of wood I think would put it over the top for the lifting ability of the tractor.  Maybe not.  I know that it doesn't work now with the short forks.  That end frow furthest from me can get leaned outboard and popped off if I overhang much off the pallet.  I bet if it was dry it wouldn't be an issue.  I'm stacking it green right from the splitter, so I think using a few more pallets, but only handing the wood that one time is more important.
> I just need more nice level dry gravel to put them on.  The wonderful place I'm using now is supposed to have a "toy barn" on it.  Soon. JP



JP, I was able to buy a used set of 4' forks at Wisconsin Lift for $70. I had to sign a release form for liability and was told they may not be up to the 7000# rating. I have abused them for 20 years (even prying out boulders with the 873) and they are still in perfect condition. I would think that there would be a similar opportunity in your area.


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## JP11 (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks

I do have the guy who sold me the carriage and forks looking for a longer set.  I guess I have to just drop in a bit more often.  Things are slow in Maine in the winter.

I sure like moving that much wood without lifting a finger.  It should work nice.  I've still got maybe 3 or 4 cords of rounds piled up.  Now I just gotta get my splitter helper (my dad) to learn to cull out the red oak to set it aside for 2 summers.

JP


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## EffectaBoilerUser (USA) (Feb 20, 2012)

I live in Northern Michigan and was required to have a seperate entrance into my boiler room that is on the rear wall of the garage. (a lean to off the rear wall on the exterior that I turned into an insulated boiler room).

The local mechanical inspector (Rob Hilton @ Charlevoix County) told me that fossil fuel burning devices are OK to put in a garage as long as they are rasied to a height where the flames/burner is 18" of the garage floor (this is so that the gas fumes from a gas tank leak wll sink to the garage floor because they are heavier than air, thus reducing the risk of explosion).

However, solid fuel burning devices (even though the SAME flame is elevated above the floor the SAME 18" are not allowed in a garage. If they are in a garage than they must be in their own "boiler room" which cannot be accessed from a door within the garage itself (a seperate entrance is the only allowable entrance to the boiler room). I was told this is because a solid fuel burning device does not have the ability to shut off the combustion process quickly like that of a propane or oil burner. 

They could be placed in a breezeway that is between a garage and a house or in the house itself but are absolutely not allowed in a garage in Michigan. I'm assuming this code is a nationwide code but I don't have the acutal documentation to back up this assumption.

Brian


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## dogwood (Feb 20, 2012)

That's the exact same code here in my neck of the woods in Virginia, Brian. Boiler room walled off from the garage, door directly to the outside. They asked for a UL listing on the boiler and to follow the manufacturers installation instructions. It's the Internatonal Building Code that's used here. Don't go againt the codes or not get inspected, or your insurance company has an easy out if you have a fire. To many flammables and fumes in a garage for it to safely house a boiler. That recent post with pictures of a burning garage should serve as ample warning. It was a wake-up call for me. 

Mike


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## bigburner (Feb 20, 2012)

Michigan Residential code - Section M1905 - installed accordance with NFPA 211-2006  I don't have a copy of it, but memory says no solid burning appliances in attached garages and I don't think there is verbiage about a separate entrance. Here they allow a separate room with a spring loaded door. [same as a gas appliance setting on the floor]


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## skfire (Feb 20, 2012)

from 2003.

please disregard the top highlighted text and refer to the highlighted ones lower down the page.

Scott


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## dogwood (Feb 20, 2012)

Bigburner, I think the ticket is, if you wall off a room in your garage with no doors or openings from it to the garage , it is no longer in, or part of, the garage. That's the interpretation hereabouts. Which codebook is that attachment from Scott?

Mike


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## bigburner (Feb 20, 2012)

I don't  care either way, I know what they allow here. But the code doesn't stay anything about a separate entrance, using that argument the house is part of the garage.


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## skfire (Feb 21, 2012)

NFPA 211, 2003 EDITION.
It basically comes down to the local Authority having jurisdiction, but most refer back to this code(not 2003 necessarily, but whichever year they honor).
Most if not all insurance companies definitely do.

I am not in agreement or condoning the intrusion, when we all know the best insurance is  diligently practicing safe habits, 
but their argument is: "accidents do happen and lives are lost".
Having said that you'd be flabbergasted to view some "installs"...especially after they have gone kaboom...not pretty.

Scott

ps: I will check(Tuesday in the office) on the actual "definition" of garage in the code, since they make distinctions of terms


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## JP11 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would be curious what the code says.  I'm probably being foolish going with common sense.  No gas vehicles in there. No gas storage in there.  

I'm sure my insurance company wouldn't like the fact that I have an outbuilding with 100 gal of methanol in drums to make biodiesel either.  I think if you get asking them then they get nervous and start saying no.

I may put in a small automatic extinguisher system.. just for piece of mind, and abundance of caution.

JP


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## skfire (Feb 21, 2012)

No clear "definition" of garage but the following seems to be the rule of thumb:

a) Garage, as in any structure which has  large enough opening to accommodate a vehicle with  gas or other flammable fuel.

b) It can also be considered a shop if any type work work are being done inside or tools are being utilized, but if the opening is large enough to accommodate a vehicle, above definition applies.

c) If detached, things get easier in inspections, but still the term "Garage" applies, thus no solid fuel flame allowed.

d) If attached to the residence, things get more complicated, fire rating in demising walls must be observed and same with all doors to living space. Either way, NPFA 211 still dictates, as listed earlier.

Placing any open flame heat source in any area where flammable fuels are stored is ...'nuff said.. we do not need code to clarify the issue.  
Darwin Award qualification.

Scott


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## JP11 (Feb 21, 2012)

Mine is in a daylight basement.  It's beneath my wife's photo studio.  I know we had to do firerock on the walls and ceilings.

It's walled off from my "utility room" that houses my boiler, oil tanks, and circulators, electric panel, etc.  Dumb thing was that despite all of that... I was unable to find a double door that was fire rated.  So we have a wood one.

Even dumber.. I leave the doors open most of the time... so what is really accomplished by not having the "boiler" in the garage?

Are they really protecting me from anything?  Now I'm not gonna be doing car repairs, storing gas, or rebuilding carburetors in there.  I already park the diesel tractor on one side.. and the other can be one of my diesel benz cars.  No gas.  No more flammable than the two, 275 gallon tanks of heating oil right there next to the boiler.

I have no doubt that no matter what starts a fire.. the insurance company is going to scream and holler.  If I wall in 3 sides of the boiler from the "garage" part with fire rock.. and take precautions mentioned above.  Like I said.. for a thousand bucks you could probably have an auto extinguisher system with a few nozzles over the top of the boiler.  I already have an alarm system with monitored fire protection....   where does reasonable come into this?  Would I be better off with a cheap pellet burner sitting in the living room with a cheap chimney plunked out the side of the house?

JP


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## flyingcow (Feb 21, 2012)

When installing my boiler, I asked questions first. As you found out, it's beyond aggravating. They(the ins co) had no problem if i installed the boiler in the basement of my house. Put it in, we won't even come look at it.

  But it was a problem if I installed it in an unattached garage? At first, didn't make any sense. Until i got a senior agent on the phone. flammable liquids or equipment that burns a flammable liquids beside a wood boiler or stove has the potential to cause serious problems. Oil furnaces and gas furnaces have a shut down of some sort, if stuff goes boom. Before we got done, i now have a wood storage facility.


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## dogwood (Feb 24, 2012)

Codes may or may not make sense to a lesser or greater degree. It almost doesn't matter. They are the law and any insurance company can use that fact to burn you if something goes wrong, and you do sustain a lesser or greater loss. Just think of how insurance companies defrauded the Hurricane Katrina victims in New Orleans who where flooded out, saying they suffered storm, not flood damage. With that excuse many were not covered for their losses. These insurance companies are not to be trusted nor dealt with lightly. You do not want to give any openings to them like obvious code violations when it comes to coverage of your greatest financial asset, your home. 

Even though they can make me sick with anxiety at times, I got my boiler room drawings approved by the Building Dept. inspectors in advance. Even though I had already read them at the library, they, unasked on two separate occasions, quoted the codes about a boiler room being completely walled off from the garage. And about having only an outward leading door from that boiler room. In my case that door opens directly outside towards the woodshed. It might be possible to have the door lead into a common area in the house, but in our home a bedroom is adjacent to the boiler room and that is not allowable. 

Pick up your local codebook at the library and read it. I did that again just last night to make sure when it I frame in combustion air openings this weekend they are sized correctly. My Dad always used to say "you can't beat a guy at his own game." This is their's, the Building Inspectors' and insurance company's, game. You need to follow their rules or you could get beat. I would hate to see that happen to anyone who frequents this site, because you folks are the best.

Mike


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## bigburner (Feb 24, 2012)

curious what you came up with for combustion air openings, bet it wasn't very clear was it. !0 different inspectors will give you 10 different versions of what size and locations is required.


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 24, 2012)

bigburner said:
			
		

> curious what you came up with for combustion air openings, bet it wasn't very clear was it. !0 different inspectors will give you 10 different versions of what size and locations is required.



I ran into that too. No one could give a definitive answer. Soi went with twice what is recommended for an equivalent sized oil burner.


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## dogwood (Feb 24, 2012)

The 2006 IBC Residential Code Book called for two combustion air openings, one a foot ftom the ceiling, another a foot from the floor. In my case with the openings directly on the outside wall, I need to have one square inch of opening for each vent, per every 4000 btu's the boiler is rated for. The Solo Innova 50 is rated at 170,700 btu's, so 170,700/4000= 42.65 square inches per vent. Tf you use a typical louvered vent, you have to make the vent bigger,  because you have to compensate for the louvers blocking some airflow. I'm just guessing you have to add 25% more to the size of each opening, I can't remember the exact percentage to you have to add to each opening's size. I have to look that figure up today. Different locations for the vents, illustrated in the code book, call for greater amounts of opening, including two to four times the size I'll be using. If you screen the vents opening to keep out bugs in addition , you have to allow for that additional restriction too.

That being said, the 2009 codebook eliminated the contents of Chapter 17 concerning combustion air requirements of solid fuel furnaces, saying only you need to follow the manufacturers recommendations. The Solo Innova manual mentions only using a 6" duct for outside air, located no closer that 12" to the boiler. That would be roughly 29 square inches of opening. The manual is more specific about the Canadian standard which calls for 1 square inch of opening per 1000 btus of hourly rating. 

I am going with the 2006 code, still in effect in this county until 2/29/12, as it provides for more air and exceeds the listed requrement of the Tarm Solo Innova manual. This should meet the inspectors approval I would think.

Mike


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## woodsmaster (Feb 24, 2012)

Do those vents close when the boiler is not running ?  Seems like that would let in a lot of cold air. I just crack a small window open a inch, and close it when it's not burning if I'm home, but I don't have it in a garage.


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## dogwood (Feb 24, 2012)

J.T., Try this post: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/52308/. It describes heat traps and motorized louvers.


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