# FB Grand Replacement Update



## Fire Bug (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Gas Burners,
 I thought that I would give you all an update,(epecially Dasky & JTP), on my replacement FB Grand Insert that I was scheduled to be installed by the dealer today.
 To refresh your memories, just a bit, this replacement unit was to change out my current unit that had a terrible metal exspansion noise,(Loud Bang), when the unit heated up and activated the snap switch for the blower after approxiamately one minute of fan operation.
 Hearth & Home tried to correct this problem by installing angle strips of metal,(three on each side and two in the back of the unit) to take the Excessive SLOP out of the sheet metal shroud that surrounds the ceramic firebrick firebox that channels the air from the blower.
 As mentioned in an earlier post, this attempted fix failed and failed badly. After this attempted fix the sheet metal bangs louder and even does it when the blower is shut off. It was so bad the last time I had the blower on and it made the banging noise, I had to go into the garage and retrieve a putty knife to peel our siameese cat off the ceiling. As soon as I got the cat off the ceiling, our dinner guest asked , in order of need, if they could use our bathroom to clean their soiled underware.
 Needless to say, I did not operate my insert when the cat was anywhere in the room  or I had dinner guest/company at the house.
 Here is "the icing on the cake". The two dealer installers arrived at the house to swap the units out. The unit they brought with them, was pulled from the dealers inventory,(Penna.), and sent to Hearth & Homes plant in Minesota. At the plant, it was unpacked, pre fired, and inspected by the Product Service Manager for correct fit of the sheet metal shroud and also given a general visual inspection for visual defects.
 After this process was completed, it was repackaged and sent back to the Penna. Dealer for todays install. 
 The two dealer technicians and I rermoved the bi fold door glass front from the existing unit and were ready to start the removal of my existing unit. The two technicians went outside to their van to bring the new insert into the house. After removing the glass front from the new insert, the technician told me that I better take a look at something on the new insert. The paint on the back and the two sides of the firebox was just about all removed exposing the white ceramic firebox.
 Some IDIOT at Hearth & Home wrapped the ceramic fiber fire logs into almost a ball and used shrink wrap to keep them together. This wasn't bad enough but than they took the shrink wrapped logs and stuck them onto the grate in the firebox with one piece of padding between them and the painted firebox. Needless to say, the "IDIOT",(I believe I know who this IDIOT is), shipped the unit this way and the vibrations removed basically all the paint off the firebox onto the pad. Normally, these logs are packed seperately sandwitched between two pieces of egg crate shaped foam for shipping to keep these VERY Fragile logs from being damaged.
 The dealer could not believe this but the H&H;Product Service Manager, when called by the dealer, gave me a ear full of attitude.
 Can you believe this???
 Is Heat & Glow going down the crapper or what? Do they have any idea of what quality control is, or let me rephrase that question, do they even have a quality control dept.?
 I truly believe that they are ready to go "Belly Up" and they truly don't give a sh-t anymore.
 I can't believe this is happening to me
 PLEASE, GOD ALMIGHTY, GIVE ME STRENGHT

John


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## Inside Guy (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't know why your fireplace banged, maybe something is wrong with the insert, or maybe 
The dealer tried to jam too big of a fireplace in a small fireplace and undo stress applied to the 
exhaust plate is the real source of the problem.  I've installed hundreds of  inserts
and never had a ceramic fireplace bang.  Not that it can't happen, I just haven't seen it.
Heck, I installed an FB-Grand at my mothers house and she couldn't be happier.  Believe me, if there was a
Problem, I'd hear about it.... She's Irish.

Perhaps the hht manger became upset when you or your dealer started calling there coworkers an "idiot"!


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## Fire Bug (Mar 11, 2009)

Inside Guy said:
			
		

> I don't know why your fireplace banged, maybe something is wrong with the insert, or maybe
> The dealer tried to jam too big of a fireplace in a small fireplace and undo stress applied to the
> exhaust plate is the real source of the problem.  I've installed hundreds of  inserts
> and never had a ceramic fireplace bang.  Not that it can't happen, I just haven't seen it.
> ...



Hi Inside Guy,
 Thanks for the feedback, but I will disagree with all of your possible solutions to my problem.

#1) The existing firebox is much, much, larger than the insert and therefore puts no pressure what so ever on the exhaust plate.
#2) It is already been established by Hearth & Home and their factory technician what is causing the bang. It is the excessive amount of sheet metal used in the blower shroud that surrounds the ceramic firebox. The technician told me that this sheet metal shroud is suppose to be a precise fit set at the factory, not a fit that the sheet metal moves in an out with a good stiff breeze. Ceramic doesn't bang from exspansion, sheet metal does.
3)These FB Grand Units that you have installed, did they have the sheet metal shrouds over the ceramic firebox? Because, I believe,only the units that come with the optional blower have this shroud.
4) I bent over backwards for Hearth and Home Technologies, Heat & Glow Inc., and the Hearth and Home Service Manager, Jef Hanel, and the word,IDIOT, has never been used except in my new topic post on this forum. Kept my frustrations until now to my self. I treated these above mentioned people with respect and total politeness until now.
 The word IDIOTS is to kind of a description to use for them.
 Jef Hanel, the Hearth & Home Service Manager starts off like Mary PoPins, but is noting more than an ignorant individual that should never hold a people orientated position like he has. For this I blame H&H;Technologies for having an individual, such as he, in a poisiton like has in this company. This guy has one HUGE ATTITUDE problem when it comes to customers with hard to solve problems.(especially the way this economy is). These companies are hurting and are going to hurt even more in the near future. They should take care of their past customer and not treat them like dirt! 
 I feel he should step down from his position or be terminated from it by H&H;Technologies who hired him. 
 Mr. Hanels performance should be reviewed by the company. He represents them.
 Now I will say once again, THEY ARE IDIOTS! 
 He put the blame on me for the rubbed off paint, implying that I am too fusy and making these problems up. The dealer technician said he would never except this unit, but when I offered Mr. Hanel the  telephone to talk to the dealer technician so that the paint problem could be explained to him, Mr. Hanel refused to talk to him.
 Bottom, Hon Industries is more concerned about there office furniture and doesn't give a "Rats Ass" about Heat & Glow Inc., this is what I have been told. They are going the same route as Vermont Castings.
 Say hello to the wife, I give hear credit for willingness to express her feelings. More power to her!


John


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## R&D Guy (Mar 13, 2009)

John,

Being in the industry I tend to agree with Inside Guy.  Do you have any pictures you can post to help illustrate your story because so far we only have your side?  Your side sounds overwhelming bad so I don't understand why Hon/Heat & Glow wouldn't want to get this unit out of your home and off the market, but we don't have their side of the story so perhaps some pictures would help explain negligence on their part or part of the other side we don't have.

If you need help uploading pics, then please PM me and I can likely upload them for you.


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## Fire Bug (Mar 13, 2009)

R&D;Guy said:
			
		

> John,
> 
> Being in the industry I tend to agree with Inside Guy.  Do you have any pictures you can post to help illustrate your story because so far we only have your side?  Your side sounds overwhelming bad so I don't understand why Hon/Heat & Glow wouldn't want to get this unit out of your home and off the market, but we don't have their side of the story so perhaps some pictures would help explain negligence on their part or part of the other side we don't have.
> 
> If you need help uploading pics, then please PM me and I can likely upload them for you.



Hi R&D;,
 I would be a real fool not to have some type of documentation,(Pictures), of my "Overwhelmingly Bad" complaints that I have loged against Hon industries,Heat & Glow, and Hearth & Home Technologies.
 I reqested the dealer who took this replacement unit took back to their shop, after the rubbed off paint was discovred by the Dealer Technician, take digital photos of the unit and e-mail me back a set of them, but I also took two 35MM pictures and video when the unit was in my home. I also have,somewhere, a picture of one of the units with the peeling paint on the firebox. I will try to locate this picture and attach it to an e-mail to this forum.
 If you really want proof of the problem you are more than welcome to contact the Dealer, Tall Pines Stoves & Fireplaces, RR 2, Box 157, Route 167, Kingsley,Pa. 18826 at 1-800-WARMTH-U or E-mail: sales@tallpinesfarm.com. Ask for Mr. George Connnor, Owner.
 I do not blame you one bit for your skepticisim,but I have nothing to hide and everything to exspose about this these companies and this particular product. I still don't believe the situation I am in myself!
 I was hoping that by posting on this site, and bringing the site members and product consumers attention to my situation, either Hon, H&H;, or H&HT;would respond to my allegations and at least attempt defend their reputaion of their companies and thier products. I know I certainly would, but as of date they haven't.
 I was told my H&HT;'s  Technician when he was at my home trying ot fix the banging problem with my insert, that when quenstioned by myself about a new model insert that used three burners, one of which was in the molded log set of the unit that they have on the market, they already have had problems with this unit and discontinued it in less than a year since introduction. What happens to the Poor Sap Consumers that have already purchased this unit? Where is their R&D;Dept.?
 I use the above information only as an example. The consumers are the guinea pigs for their products, in my opinion. Take the money and run!
 I will do my best to forward pictures.

Thanks for the response,
John


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## R&D Guy (Mar 15, 2009)

John,

Lets get those pictures up to help illustrate the issues you've been having.


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## Fire Bug (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey R&D;,
 Lets drop the attitude! You don't work for H&HT;by any chance?
 Called the dealer Friday, spoke to the owner , he said that Sherri Gobbles,H&HT;Dealer Rep., took the digital pictures of the unit with the defective paint.
 You don't know her by any chance?
 He was suppose to contact her and have them e-mailed to me.
 You have the dealers name, address, phone number, and owners name, if this doesn't fit your time table, as I told you, help yourself and confirm the story, the phone call won't cost you nothing,other wise kiss my as*! 
 Who the hell are you giving me comands anyhow, goe beat the dog or your wife to occupy your free time but don't address me that way!
 These pictures are just another example of this companies poor quality customer products and service. Get it!
 I owe you nothing. You have got to work for one these wonderful companies!
 CALL THE DEALER and tell what a big sh-t you are and maybe Miss Gobbles will send you them otherwise go screw.
 Your advice on this forum was always second hand anyway! 
John


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## R&D Guy (Mar 15, 2009)

LOL!!  OK now I'm starting to see why they don't return your calls.  Sheesh easy there tough guy.  I was just trying to see for myself what all the hoopla was about.  No need to turn your frustration towards me, I'm not involved in any way with your situation and don't work or have heard of the parties involved.

As pointed out first by another member, if this is how you are treating your dealer and the Hon rep then its no wonder they are ignoring you.  

In the future I'd suggest taking your own pictures so you are not so far over a barrel as you are here.  The problem you'll soon find with pictures is that since they took them with their camera they by US Copyright law own the rights to those pictures and don't have to share them with you.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what

If you did take pictures and you are not computer/Internet literate enough to post them then I will still offer my help, but not if you are going to continue taking blind swings at me.




			
				Fire Bug said:
			
		

> Hey R&D;,
> Lets drop the attitude! You don't work for H&HT;by any chance?
> Called the dealer Friday, spoke to the owner , he said that Sherri Gobbles,H&HT;Dealer Rep., took the digital pictures of the unit with the defective paint.
> You don't know her by any chance?
> ...


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## Shane (Mar 15, 2009)

Fire Bug that post was completely uncalled for.  R&D;guy was trying to gather facts and offer any advice he could.


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## webbie (Mar 19, 2009)

Fire Bug - looking at your past posts you had similar long and angry rants about your Jotul, etc....

One starts to wonder if the problems are with the units or the customer? 

Calling people idiots and making rants about them is not usually the way to obtain the best service or answers. But it does get attention (the wrong kind usually). 

We have a stove rating section - one rating per stove/person. 

Oh, and realistically - a lot of customers would accept a banging such as that - I know I sold some units which did that and the folks accepted them.......
My existing Lennox unit does some banging when heating - probably not as much as yours, but definitely audible. I think it bangs when cooling also.

The correct term, I think, is "oil panning" or something like that.

Anyway, I'm gonna close this thread for anger management problems......hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction. I know the people up at Tall Pines and they are good folks....been in business forever.


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