# Tractor battery



## Adios Pantalones (Apr 16, 2013)

My tractor battery died a year or 2 ago, so I bought a new one. Now that one is dead and I have been jumping it by carrying out a deep cell marine battery.

I figure the options are that the tractor battery has gone bad, or that the charging system doesn't quite keep up with it. How do I know if the tractor battery has kicked the bucket? If I put it on the charger and it starts the tractor for a while, can I assume it's OK?

I don't know what the heck I am doing most times.


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## Bret Hart (Apr 16, 2013)

Get the battery up to full charge and do a load test yourself or take to an auto parts store so they can test it.

Use a volt meter to check the charging system on the tractor to make sure it is charging and that voltage increases slightly when the rpm's raise. 12 volt or lower on the meter with the engine off is just battery voltage. With the engine running you should see higher voltage up to around 13.8 volts on a weak battery.


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 16, 2013)

Bret Hart said:


> Get the battery up to full charge and do a load test yourself or take to an auto parts store so they can test it.
> 
> Use a volt meter to check the charging system on the tractor to make sure it is charging and that voltage increases slightly when the rpm's raise. 12 volt or lower on the meter with the engine off is just battery voltage. With the engine running you should see higher voltage up to around 13.8 volts on a weak battery.


 
I think it actually reads the voltage just after startup before switching to hours of operation. Should have thought of that. Thanks


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## Highbeam (Apr 16, 2013)

I switched to AGM "gel" batteries on the tractor awhile ago since the acid gets sloshed all over with the regular lead/acid batteries.

First thing to do when a battery is not starting the machine is to check voltage at the battery when running. 14 is your target but 13.5 ot 14.5 is fine.

I had a bulldozer putting out over 18 volts and boiling the huge battery so I swapped that one to a GM one-wire alternator and the battery was much happier at 14 volts.


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## semipro (Apr 16, 2013)

Same here on the AGM gel battery for my Deere.
When you're watching voltage at the battery you have to consider the engine speed as Bret mentioned and also the battery state. If the battery is real low like after you just jumped it off then the charging voltage will be low (maybe (12.5 v) until the battery gets charged up by the alternator. In this situation you have high current flow (amps) but lower voltage.
And, if the battery is already fully charged you should see a much higher voltage at the battery (13.8-14.5). Here you have lower current flowing into the battery but higher voltage.

It helps a lot to put a battery maintainer/tender on equipment that doesn't get used often. Chemical degradation occurs in batteries that go too low.


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## MasterMech (Apr 17, 2013)

Quick and dirty test for most lawn tractor charging systems:  Turn the headlights on with the engine at low idle.  Then accellerate the engine to full RPM.  Did the lights get brighter?

Is the PTO clutch electric?  If so and the mower isn't shutting off after awhile for no apparent reason then the charging system is probably OK.

Check for parasitic drains as well.  Stick an ammeter that reads milliamps (auto ranging Digital Meter is best) in series between the + battery post and the cable terminal.  Should read 0 or real close to it.


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## begreen (Apr 17, 2013)

Battery sounds like it might still be ok. The charging system sounds suspect. Could be the voltage regulator or the generator. Check output of both with a meter.


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## HDRock (Apr 17, 2013)

Am I right or wrong here, tractor batts are only good for a couple of years now


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## MasterMech (Apr 17, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Am I right or wrong here, tractor batts are only good for a couple of years now


Buy good batteries, Interstate, Deka, I'm sure there are a couple others. Stay away from Wally World and the parts store specials.

Doesn't help that these batteries are routinely exposed to vibration, heat, and long periods sitting idle in the cold.  I have a few that are 5+ years old and are still very strong.


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## HDRock (Apr 17, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Buy good batteries, Interstate, Deka, I'm sure there are a couple others. Stay away from Wally World and the parts store specials.
> 
> Doesn't help that these batteries are routinely exposed to vibration, heat, and long periods sitting idle in the cold. I have a few that are 5+ years old and are still very strong.


  Had a  parts store batt, one in it now to,  old die hard lasted, newer one didn't


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## Ehouse (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm so sick of friggin' around with batteries and tires on these things I swear it's a racket!  In lieu of fitting my lawn tractors with a recoil start I use a socket and a 1/2" drill for a starter. Cut a hole in the shroud to access the top nut.  I Use a slightly oversized socket and haven't had a problem pulling out in time (heh heh).


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## lukem (Apr 17, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Am I right or wrong here, tractor batts are only good for a couple of years now


 
Mine is on year 4 and has never seen the charger yet. I did run it down over the weekend trying to start the mower with no gas in it , but a jump-start from the truck and an hour of run-time mowing the yard and it is right back where it should be.


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 17, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> I'm so sick of friggin' around with batteries and tires on these things I swear it's a racket! In lieu of fitting my lawn tractors with a recoil start I use a socket and a 1/2" drill for a starter. Cut a hole in the shroud to access the top nut. I Use a slightly oversized socket and haven't had a problem pulling out in time (heh heh).


 
No kiddin on tires. Seems like every one is a slow leak all the time. A few weeks of non-use means that using it involves a jack. Of course- 8 years would be a decent life for tires on my car, so maybe they've done OK.

I have a lead on a Kubota with a bucket, 54" mower, snow attachment, and more for $5K. Not sure if I can swing the ching for it right now, but it would be nice.


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## Jags (Apr 17, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> A few weeks of non-use means that using it involves a jack.


 
I am curious on what you are using the jack for.


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 17, 2013)

Jags said:


> I am curious on what you are using the jack for.


To get a flat tire off so that I can reseat/fill it.


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## Jags (Apr 17, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> To get a flat tire off so that I can reseat/fill it.


 
If it has already popped off of the bead, get an inner tube shoved in there and be done with flats.  It will fix ya right up.


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 17, 2013)

Jags said:


> If it has already popped off of the bead, get an inner tube shoved in there and be done with flats. It will fix ya right up.


Ya, I'm about there


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## Jags (Apr 17, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Ya, I'm about there


 
The couple of bucks that they cost, and the 5 minutes it takes to stuff one in a tire will make it well worth the effort. (IMHO).


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## Ashful (Apr 17, 2013)

Cub I just sold had the original tires, 50+ years old, and looked / held air like new.  Deere has original 1986 tires, which also hold air like new, but look like hell due to sitting out in the sun.  All tubeless.

My experience is that slow leaks on tractor tires usually have nothing to do with the tire, and everything to do with the wheel.  Rubber can't seal against a rusty rim.


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## Highbeam (Apr 17, 2013)

Whoa! Are you guys talking about lawn mowers or tractors? Tractors, see my avatar, use full size car batteries and they absolutely last a long time. As long as a car battery in a car. Big tractors use bigger batteries.  

Now if you're talking about lawn mowers and those goofy little batteries then I have had less service life from them. Funny that some people call their mowers tractors. What do they call tractors?

Don't get too hung up on battery brand. There are very few manufacturers of batteries. Walmart, costco, sears, parts store, probably all Interstate batteries.


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## semipro (Apr 17, 2013)

I always thought anything you could hang a ground contact rear implement on was a tractor. 
Many "garden tractors" had mowing decks, a cast-iron rear axle, and the ability to plow.


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## lukem (Apr 17, 2013)

Tractor can mean many different things anymore.  There are lawn tractors (lawn mowers), garden tractors (beefed up lawn mowers, some with ground engaging implements), tractors (semi-truck or farm machine), etc.


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## Ashful (Apr 17, 2013)

yep... even a "lawn tractor" is a "tractor," of sorts.  It helps when you distinguish:

lawn tractor
garden tractor / sub-compact tractor
compact utility tractor (CUT)
ag. tractor


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## Adios Pantalones (Apr 17, 2013)

Mine is stuck between lawn and garden tractor. I do more pulling a cart or splitter with it than mowing by a long shot, so I refer to it more as a tractor. (though I don't care if you call it a tricycle)


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## HDRock (Apr 17, 2013)

Putting tubes in the tires, is a given, put slime tubes in the little trailer


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## Ashful (Apr 17, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Putting tubes in the tires, is a given, put slime tubes in the little trailer


 
Why?  I've owned several garden tractors and two CUT's, and the only time I've ever put a tube in a tire was when a tire was damaged, and I didn't feel like replacing it.


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Putting tubes in the tires, is a given, put slime tubes in the little trailer​


 


Jags said:


> If it has already popped off of the bead, get an inner tube shoved in there and be done with flats. It will fix ya right up.​


 


Joful said:


> Why? I've owned several garden tractors and two CUT's, and the only time I've ever put a tube in a tire was when a tire was damaged, and I didn't feel like replacing it.


 
I hate tubes in drive tires. Especially low-pressure tires like what's commonly on these little tractors. Tubes in non-drive tires are fine, although I will still stay tubeless unless all other options (short of replacing an $$ tire) have been exhausted. I will replace a $30 tire before I throw a tube in it. Some folks will put 4-5 $10, $15, $20 tubes in a $50 tire before they see the light. Worse yet is that they will pay somebody to do it.

Why the vendetta against tubes? Because they do nothing to improve the overall reliability of the Tire/Tube/Wheel system. Often the valve stem doesn't fit perfectly through the hole in the rim, creating a stress point on the tube, or allows dirt in via the hole that later wears through or punctures the tube. Moisture can also get through that imperfect seal and then that rusts the wheel, creating a lot more work to go back to tubeless or completely ruining the wheel for use with a tubeless tire. And just because you have the right size tube in the tire, with the right type and location of the valve stem, doesn't mean that it will STAY PUT in there once the tire is returned to service. Drive tires that are exposed to high torque loads, will often shift position on the rim. This can happen gradually or all at once, depending on the load applied. The tube will shift position with the tire, creating stress at the valve stem, tearing it, or worse, just pulling the whole ^&%^$ing stem back inside the wheel. Remember, these are not car tires inflated to 30+ psi (not that ANY reputable tire shop would put a tube in a car tire) and not bicycle tires inflated to crazy pressures with rims that require tubes to seal. These tires are typically inflated to 8-14 psi and it's pretty easy to shift one on the rim.

I do like slime tubes (or adding my own slime to tubes) for small tires like those on hand trucks, walk behind blowers, dump carts, wheelbarrows, etc. But that's about it. There ARE exceptions to my rule  like the guys that run corrosive tire ballast in larger tractors with big $$ rims. But those tubes are typically installed as such that they seal up pretty good. I'd prefer non-corrosive ballast but that's a whole 'nother thread.

My main gripe is that 90% of the time, tubes are installed to save a chitty tire that needs to be replaced regardless, or installed as a "go to" solution for minor conditions that are easily corrected, often without removing the tire from the rim, and then it's often installed incorrectly or in a tire that's used in applications that are inappropriate for a tube.

Tubes are for bicycles.


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## Jags (Apr 18, 2013)

You feel better now? (by the way, I feel the same for drive tires on traction machines).

(Hey - AP - for the front tires on your little lawn mower, the tube will work just fine.)


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## Ashful (Apr 18, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Tubes are for bicycles.


 
Well said!  I've only ever been talked into putting a tube in a tractor tire once, and ended up regretting it.  It was the front tire on a 4wd CUT, tire was still in good shape (minus a rose thorn hole in the side-wall, causing a slow leak), and the tire shop talked me into tubing it when I saw the cost of a replacement (odd size).  It was nothing but problems, of course most of those problems involved keeping the stem from chafing in the valve stem hole.


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## ironpony (Apr 18, 2013)

HEY, Master Mech what do you really think about putting tubes in tires???????.............................................

I thought this thread was about batterys.


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2013)

Joful said:


> Well said! I've only ever been talked into putting a tube in a tractor tire once, and ended up regretting it. It was the front tire on a 4wd CUT, tire was still in good shape (minus a rose thorn hole in the side-wall, causing a slow leak), and the tire shop talked me into tubing it when I saw the cost of a replacement (odd size). It was nothing but problems, of course most of those problems involved keeping the stem from chafing in the valve stem hole.


 
Shop I worked for would push tubes in anything and everything.  Duh, sell the tube AND the labor right? 

Vulcanizing cement and an interior patch? Crazy talk I tell ya.


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2013)

Jags said:


> You feel better now? (by the way, I feel the same for drive tires on traction machines).
> 
> (Hey - AP - for the front tires on your little lawn mower, the tube will work just fine.)


 


ironpony said:


> HEY, Master Mech what do you really think about putting tubes in tires???????.............................................
> 
> I thought this thread was about batterys.


 
Hey c'mon now, it's a short list of things that set me off...... 

Overloaded trailers with no brakes and a Toyota Matrix as a tow vehicle
Tubes in drive tires

Who's next?!  (I'm kidding!)


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## mithesaint (Apr 24, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Hey c'mon now, it's a short list of things that set me off......
> 
> Overloaded trailers with no brakes and a Toyota Matrix as a tow vehicle
> Tubes in drive tires
> ...


 
LOL.  Saw a Chrysler Sebring towing a JD A the other day.  I cried a tear for the transmission.  Sadly, it was going the opposite direction so I didn't get to follow it and watch it shed gears onto the road.


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## basod (Apr 24, 2013)

Best way to test a battery is check voltage across terminals and crank the starter.
If it drops excessively (seen a 12V go to 2V) battery is shot.  Either the lead sulfate has shorted a couple cells or internal terminations/connections are broken

The more expensive the battery - the deeper the space under the cells, and thickness of connections/plates.


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## MasterMech (Apr 24, 2013)

mithesaint said:


> LOL. Saw a Chrysler Sebring towing a JD A the other day. I cried a tear for the transmission. Sadly, it was going the opposite direction so I didn't get to follow it and watch it shed gears onto the road.


Saw a Corvette towing a small single axle trailer loaded with a lawn tractor and a push mower.  Don't see that every day.


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## jharkin (Apr 29, 2013)

Everything you ever wanted to know about lead acid batteries:

http://www.batteryfaq.org

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html

If the battery is going bad because its sitting for long periods without use its sulfating. The fix is to keep it maintained at full charge on a float/trickle charger. If its stored indoors you want a battery minder. If its stored outdoors you can use a small solar cell. A 12v cell with an amp rating 1/300 to 1/500 of the amp hour capacity of the battery can be connected directly and left indefinitely.


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## Ashful (Apr 29, 2013)

Call me lucky, but my mower battery gets used to start the mower once per week all summer, and then just sits all winter. No maintenance or battery minder, no heat in the building where it is stored. It just starts right up every spring, after sitting 6 months in the cold. It's 6 years old now, so it's paid its dues if it fails today, but I suspect it may go several more years like that before it does.

Now before anyone says, "yeah, but it's just a little lawn mower engine," my mower is larger than the OP's tractor.


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