# This Forum is Creating the Pellet Panic!!



## MarkF48 (Sep 29, 2014)

Look at the number of views on threads that have the mention of pellet shortages. You're getting everyone scared that they won't have heat this winter and of course you're telling all your friends and co-workers about the shortage and they're getting antsy about pellet availability. 

This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets


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## jfunk138 (Sep 29, 2014)

Just filled my oil tank for $3.06/gallon.  Haven't seen that price in a few years.  Burning oil won't be too painful.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 29, 2014)

For me, oil has to drop below $2 per gallon before it's less painful than pellets.


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## jfunk138 (Sep 29, 2014)

http://stcroixstoves.com/pellet-stoves/compare.htm

I plugged in $345 a ton for pellets and $3.06 for oil.  If anything will end this "shortage" the falling cost of oil will.  Oil is starting to beat the fancy pellets.  Though it would have to drop to $2.25/gallon to beat Home Depot pellets.


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## moey (Sep 29, 2014)

jfunk138 said:


> http://stcroixstoves.com/pellet-stoves/compare.htm
> 
> I plugged in $345 a ton for pellets and $3.06 for oil.  If anything will end this "shortage" the falling cost of oil will.  Oil is starting to beat the fancy pellets.  Though it would have to drop to $2.25/gallon to beat Home Depot pellets.



If you have a modern boiler or furnace that is properly sized I would say unless your buying pellets sub $250 its more economical to just turn the switch on your boiler on.


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## Highbeam (Sep 29, 2014)

moey said:


> If you have a modern boiler or furnace that is properly sized I would say unless your buying pellets sub $250 its more economical to just turn the switch on your boiler on.


 
Is that assuming the 3$ oil that jfunk quoted?

Assuming you have plentiful stockpiles of each fuel and that each stockpile won't expire from old age, it makes sense to burn the cheapest.


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## TimfromMA (Sep 29, 2014)

I've cut my oil consumption by 600 gallons per year. As soon as I can buy 600 gallons of heating oil for less than the cost of 3 1/2 tons pellets, I'll flip on the oil furnace.


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## Tonyray (Sep 29, 2014)

1,000 dollars for 4 tons of pellets for heat this winter.
oil supply for heat/Hot water would be close to 2,000.00 for  a year..
this past year got 100 gallons oil in Feb [for DHW] and just now got 100 gallons in sept which should take us to close to February again.
Pellets still Ahead by 800.00 -900.00.


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## iron stove (Sep 29, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets



And pencils misspell my words.


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## muss (Sep 29, 2014)

The original poster is correct in saying some people on this forum are supporting a bit of panic among the newbies about having a "pellet shortage" . With all the new pellet manufacturers across the country, very doubtful if there ever would happen


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## moey (Sep 29, 2014)

FUD...


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## lessoil (Sep 29, 2014)

I would hope that if all of us purchased only what we needed, then we should be all set.
There was a shortage last Jan-Feb. Never ending cold......

Muss,
One of my ancestors on my Dad's side settled in Embden after the Revolutionary War.
His name was Granville Berry. He and his Wife are buried in a small cemetery overlooking Embden Pond.


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## Peterfield (Sep 29, 2014)

Maybe some good news.  A few vendors of pellets I visited today will not sell you a ton at a time.  I don't know how prevalent this anti-hoarding policy is but all the places doing it had plenty of pellets and several brands to choose from.


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 29, 2014)

muss said:


> The original poster is correct in saying some people on this forum are supporting a bit of panic among the newbies about having a "pellet shortage" . With all the new pellet manufacturers across the country, very doubtful if there ever would happen


Keep in mind... Everybody that reads this forum doesn't live in Embden, Maine.

The shortages that "I" have been speaking about, are very real, in "my" area.
As I have said before, we are VERY happy that everyone is not experiencing
the same dilemma.
Our yard is still empty.
Keep getting told they will be here any day.
The phone still rings all day from people looking for good grade stuff..

As for the new plants... How many and where.
And are they making up for the boatloads going overseas,
that never used to?
Not hardly..

Dan


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## RhodyPelletRook (Sep 29, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I've cut my oil consumption by 600 gallons per year. As soon as I can buy 600 gallons of heating oil for less than the cost of 3 1/2 tons pellets, I'll flip on the oil furnace.


That'll take time since your looking at the per ton price of DF


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## DneprDave (Sep 29, 2014)

No pellet shortage around Western Washington


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## TimfromMA (Sep 29, 2014)

The majority of pellet users don't post here and these people have alot to do with pellet usage. They experienced shortages last year just like the rest of us and don't need to read a message board to know it's a good idea to buy pellets early.


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## ttdberg (Sep 29, 2014)

If I were in the market to buy my first pellet stove right about now, reading all this stuff about fuel shortages would turn me off to the idea.  There was a recent thread where a member was contemplating buying DF pellets at $375/ton ($7.50 per bag) just to make sure he had some pellets.  Using 200 gallons oil as an example, at today's price of $3.06, the cost is $612.  The same heat value is produced by 80 bags of pellets, but at $7.50 per bag, the price is $600!

I don't know about you guys, but I bought the pellet stove first and foremost to save money, so spending that kind of money on pellets completely diminishes the value of it.  For the whopping $12 in savings, it's just not worth it.  Rather than despair, lose sleep, and spend more money than I ever wanted to on pellets, I would gladly relax and let the oil man come fill up the tank and keep hunting for pellets at $240 - $250 per ton.  When you find them, and you will, then buy.


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## dlehneman (Sep 29, 2014)

I'll buy my own small pellet mill and produce them myself before I ever buy oil again


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## iron stove (Sep 29, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> Maybe some good news.  A few vendors of pellets I visited today will not sell you a ton at a time.  .



During the March severe shortage, local vendors were doing this. 5-10 bag limit. But it was March, April.  If  I drove my HD truck to a vendor today, and they wouldn't sell me a full ton, theyd never see me again. Waste of time and Gas to only buy a few bags.


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## Edward Hughes (Sep 29, 2014)

iron stove said:


> During the March severe shortage, local vendors were doing this. 5-10 bag limit. But it was March, April.  If  I drove my HD truck to a vendor today, and they wouldn't sell me a full ton, theyd never see me again. Waste of time and Gas to only buy a few bags.


Bought my stove, Nov 18 1995, and knew this would happen. I will not renew my pellet dependency,
if and when, I can no longer repair. Close to 70, and the B.S. gets old quick.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 29, 2014)

Is this supply issue the same for bulk delivery of pellets also. Im not a pellet burner, but have been curious about this supply. Thanks


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 29, 2014)

iron stove said:


> During the March severe shortage, local vendors were doing this. 5-10 bag limit. But it was March, April.  If  I drove my HD truck to a vendor today, and they wouldn't sell me a full ton, theyd never see me again. Waste of time and Gas to only buy a few bags.


Chances are really good that when (if) we get pellets again,
we will only sell one ton per. Hopefully that will get people by until more come in.
Better to help a couple dozen, than four or five.

But honestly.... This you'll have them Tuesday....
no, Thursday... maybe Friday, BS is getting really, really old...


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## scajjr2 (Sep 29, 2014)

We got our 4 tons in August, $1100.  We have electric baseboard heat, average has been $1400-$1500 above the rest of the cost we pay monthly (hot water, electric stove, etc.) to heat from Nov -April. Today news came out that our electric supplier, Unitil, has requested a rate increase to the NH PUC that would add $42/mo to the "average" user. Not being an "average" user, I'm glad I made sure to have our winter supply on hand before fall this year.

Sam


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## bbfarm (Sep 29, 2014)

We had a shortage in our area mid winter last year about the same time as the propane shortage

Not all of us have the cash flow to buy the entire winters stock of pellets in advance. Last year we bought a ton a month.  Tons of room to store them just no $$ to buy them

I am so happy to be able to have 4 tons bought already with a 5th ton in the works for October

There were places like fleet farm that had pellets but i won't buy from them because they store them all outside, not under cover.  We got lots of freezing rain last year


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## Big papa (Sep 29, 2014)

I think people are having a hard time getting pellets lots of people posting. It's still warm now but wait til we have highs in the 30's and 40's I think things are going to get worse in the near future


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 29, 2014)

I remember as a child many used bagged coal and could pick up a few on payday on the way home. Even then many I knew would eventually build an inexpensive coal bin to take advantage of bulk delivery prices on the off season. a nice little coal bucket was used to fuel stoves.

I not knowing the prices of pellets my curiosity  says: is bulk delivery cheaper then buying by the bag and worrying?


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 30, 2014)

http://www.nh.gov/oep/energy/energy-nh/fuel-prices/index.htm


So you could pay up to 414.06 per ton to break even at the current oil price.


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## bbfarm (Sep 30, 2014)

Big papa said:


> I think people are having a hard time getting pellets lots of people posting. It's still warm now but wait til we have highs in the 30's and 40's I think things are going to get worse in the near future



Lol highs in the 30's and 40's?  I wish!  Now if you use those same numbers and put the words "below zero" in front of them you will describe our winters


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## St_Earl (Sep 30, 2014)

the delivery fee i pay is a flat $75. so i always get the 6 tons steve's truck can haul.
and prices are best in spring, so i schedule for right after the snow is gone.
nothing else makes sense.
if i don't burn the extra ton that i and so many others did last winter, there will come a year when i don't have to order.
i'm lucky to have lots of space for them.

$345 is $125 more per ton than i pay.
it's just not happening.


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## Big papa (Sep 30, 2014)

bbfarm said:


> Lol highs in the 30's and 40's?  I wish!  Now if you use those same numbers and put the words "below zero" in front of them you will describe our winters


Well my point is in the east it's been in the70's degrees "no need for heat" and there is some what of a shortage now below zero would only make it even worse.


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## Pellet-King (Sep 30, 2014)

Tonyray said:


> 1,000 dollars for 4 tons of pellets for heat this winter.
> oil supply for heat/Hot water would be close to 2,000.00 for  a year..
> this past year got 100 gallons oil in Feb [for DHW] and just now got 100 gallons in sept which should take us to close to February again.
> Pellets still Ahead by 800.00 -900.00.



You didn't factor is the cost of your stove which would of been less if you bought a better effecient furnace, or if you left it alone and added $4000 of oil that would of cost less


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## CBL (Sep 30, 2014)

jfunk138 said:


> http://stcroixstoves.com/pellet-stoves/compare.htm
> 
> I plugged in $345 a ton for pellets and $3.06 for oil.  If anything will end this "shortage" the falling cost of oil will.  Oil is starting to beat the fancy pellets.  Though it would have to drop to $2.25/gallon to beat Home Depot pellets.



I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.


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## WNCBear (Sep 30, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Look at the number of views on threads that have the mention of pellet shortages. You're getting everyone scared that they won't have heat this winter and of course you're telling all your friends and co-workers about the shortage and they're getting antsy about pellet availability.
> 
> This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets



No panic.  Prepared.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 30, 2014)

CBL said:


> I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.



The calculators are accurate on a BTU/cost basis but can never account for the duct losses with the central unit. Lots of heat goes in the attic and in the basement where the oil burner resides instead of into the living space. All of the pellet heat goes into the living space.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 30, 2014)

Using the chart from NHOSP pellets are second only to natural gas. I think its a great heat source. obviously one can cross multiply with actual local costs of different fuels for up to date and actual savings comparison. My interest in this is that I burn wood($60-100 a cord) and save a boatload over other heat sources. I think that the btu per unit comparison is interesting and supports the use of a wood or pellet boiler burning to thermal storage for best efficiency. conservation of fuel seems to be the best answer to economics of heating. as stated above the ability to afford a higher temperature in the home is much desired. IMHO
The wood boiler to storage for me would be the cheapest after initial purchase,but a pellet boiler to storage would free up much of my time for fishing.


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## TimfromMA (Oct 1, 2014)

CBL said:


> I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.



EXACTLY.

At the end of the day, the only number that really matters is how much less you are spending regardless of what the local mathematicians say.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Oct 1, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> At the end of the day, the only number that really matters is how much less you are spending regardless of what the local mathematicians say.


FYI

"Approximately 1.5 million tons of wood pellets are consumed annually in the U.S. Northeast. According to independent forecasts, wood pellet consumption in the region is expected to increase at an annual growth rate of 7% through 2018. Customer demand for wood pellets in this market exceeds available regional production."

http://www.rentechinc.com/wood-pellets-US.php


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## moey (Oct 1, 2014)

CBL said:


> I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.



One of the biggest efficiency gains you see is your pellet stove is up to date and not over-sized for you house. Most folks have a central heating appliance that is grossly over-sized for their house and its 15+ years old. The average home needs 20-30k btu while the central heating system puts out 75k btu miniumum. Its like using a flame thrower to light your birthday cake. 

The calculators don't account for how poorly installed said heating system is. 

I suspect if you put a 30k btu oil stove in the middle of your house you'd be surprised how much money you would save.


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## tiger (Oct 1, 2014)

iron stove said:


> If  I drove my HD truck to a vendor today, and they wouldn't sell me a full ton, theyd never see me again. Waste of time and Gas to only buy a few bags.



Agreed for most and particularly heavy users. But (and I am supposed to get by 2 tons delivered tomorrow), I seem to go to HD weekly -- 4 miles R/T -- for my never-ending household projects. I've been discussing with my wife the idea of grabbing 5 bags every trip. No extra driving for me, and won't run up against a limit. I might end up w/a surplus, but maybe not. Some chance I can get four bags in the Boxster (two in the trunk, one in the frunk, one in the passenger seat) without needing the utility trailer.

And, being just outside of Washington DC... am I the furthest-south user on this forum? (Might impact my consumption, and supply)


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## jfunk138 (Oct 1, 2014)

moey said:


> One of the biggest efficiency gains you see is your pellet stove is up to date and not over-sized for you house. Most folks have a central heating appliance that is grossly over-sized for their house and its 15+ years old. The average home needs 20-30k btu while the central heating system puts out 75k btu miniumum. Its like using a flame thrower to light your birthday cake.
> 
> The calculators don't account for how poorly installed said heating system is.
> 
> I suspect if you put a 30k btu oil stove in the middle of your house you'd be surprised how much money you would save.



My boiler(and house) is 20 years old, but does still seem to be performing ok.  It's oversized but I scale back the high limit (155 in the shoulder 170 in peak winter), so the circulator runs much more than the burner.  The boiler also sits in heated/insulated space, so minimal losses on that front.

I've only had my pellet stove for 1 year, but the degree days for winter 2013-2014 are VERY similar to winter 2010-2011 for my zip code, so I use this as a basis for comparison.  I used 225 bags of pellets in 2013-2014.  During the same period in 2010-2011 I burned 570 gallons of heating oil.  That 575 would have cost me $2,070 with oil@3.60/gallon last winter, so there is no doubt I saved money:  I spent $920 on those pellets but bought them mostly at Lowes with coupons and hauled them myself.  It's also interesting that using the raw equivalency of 1 bag pellets = 2.5 gallon oil, the mathematicians predict on a BTU equivalence that the 225 bags = 562.5 gallons of oil (pretty darn close to my equivalent year usage).

Now... That math starts to change as oil comes down in price and pellets go up.  With pellets pushing up over $5 a bag and oil pushing back under $3 a gallon, the payoff for all of the hauling/stacking/cleaning is starting to dwindle.  I'm just hoping I can break even on my Mt Vernon before we hit equilibrium.  Given the high overlap of pellet heat and oil heat, it's almost a given that they will reach some sort of equilibrium at some point.


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## stmar (Oct 1, 2014)

Pellets are ebb and flow just like other commodities: bullets (still have my Y2K supply), hay (seems like every other year there is is panic), and pellets (again, every other year there seems to be some alert). This year when I called my supplier he said they were having issues getting their stock so I took the initiative and found another source; no panic, just proactive and self preserving. I do not think this forum or any other causes shortages, it is just the nature of the beast. I use less than 2 ton per year and that is what I buy, I don't like to store them over 2 years.


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## Luvmesomesamples (Oct 1, 2014)

I also would like to point out even if I were able to buy oil right now for $3.15 or whatever it is, with a standard 275 gal tank I would still need to purchase at least 4 more times during the heating season, which last year reached $4.25. I filled my oil tank up at $3.28 last fall, the same as it is right now. My savings will come this winter. I agree people need to chill out with the pellet crisis crap.


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## briansol (Oct 1, 2014)

Supply is definitely down compared to previous years.  A lot of folks pre-bought and left on-site, which left little room for houses to actually buy more with the money.   They sat on inventory--- the #1 most expensive thing in business, even if it's already paid for.

Trucks can only haul in so much.  If there's no room to store it, once they pallets start going off the shelves around now, there's little trickle back in to the shelves.  

I wish I had electric baseboards.   i'm honestly considering adding a few to some key rooms and hooking up a home-brew solar panel set up that would just power those when they had sun on them as supplimental.


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 1, 2014)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Using the chart from NHOSP pellets are second only to natural gas.



Neither is cheaper than coal.... which is substantially cheaper than pellets.

Dan


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## WoodPorn (Oct 1, 2014)

MarkF48 said:


> Look at the number of views on threads that have the mention of pellet shortages. You're getting everyone scared that they won't have heat this winter and of course you're telling all your friends and co-workers about the shortage and they're getting antsy about pellet availability.
> 
> This forum is fueling the run and shortage on pellets


 

Today is my first day back on this forum in about 4 months, that being said, I just got my winter stash of Somersets yesterday, and it took me a day of calling around to find a decent pellet actually in stock. I think people are a bit scarred by last years issues.


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## yrock87 (Oct 1, 2014)

I admit that as a new pellet burner this forum helped me make a decision about buying the 8 tons i need for a season this fall.  but honestly, i didnt just run out and grab pellets willy nilly.  i looked at my local supply, and here, it is all seasonal.  the major suppliers here are the box stores, so when they swich over to lawn mowers in february, i loose my ability to buy another 2 tons.   a large portion of my avalialbe stocks are trucked up and the stores do that shipping up here the same way they do it down south.  so yeah, this site informed my decision, but i also used some comon sense and local expertise.  i think that you should give the average member a little more credit than to think that anybody who visits this site once will immediatly go and try to buy twice his annual fuel needs.


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## oliveone (Oct 1, 2014)

Last year spent some time to get my pellets. Many trips to the store waiting for the big truck to bring in some Set's. This year I called some other pellet users an brought a truckload.  It was way better then then last year and got the pellets that I paid for.  Think it will be ok once everyone stops the big preseason push to get all they can. 1200 Gal of oil would cost me around $3900 for heat and hot water for the year. Last year pellets cost me $1000. Oil for 275 gal cost me $880 . New stove return on investment was under 4 years.  Pellet win IMO!!


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## rayttt (Oct 1, 2014)

bbfarm said:


> There were places like fleet farm that had pellets but i won't buy from them because they store them all outside, not under cover.  We got lots of freezing rain last year



Pellets are completely covered in plastic such that storing them outside has no real affect on them.


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## bill3rail (Oct 1, 2014)

If I stay inside and read nothing but impending doom, I will start to believe it!
I saw Blowes had them a few weeks back and the threat of a shortage had started online.  I bought 1 ton yesterday, and will buy 1 ton today, then on to individual bags to top off the pellet shed to capacity.

Bill


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## jotul? (Oct 1, 2014)

These pellet threads are fascinating. I may troll around CL this winter to see if I can find a used pellet stove cheap just so I can get in on this.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Oct 1, 2014)

jotul? said:


> I may troll around CL this winter to see if I can find a used pellet stove cheap just so I can get in on this.


you can buy a basket and burn them in your stove. get in on the fun.


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## humpin iron (Oct 1, 2014)

A large part of the problem is trucking.  There is a 35K driver shortage in America today.  The economy took out alot of smaller operations, fed regs are discouraging others.  Pellets are trucked at a rate of about 3-4 $/ per mile loaded.  When other industries are paying above that the pellets are not attractive.  Couple that with CT-RI-MASS, have NOTHING to haul back, truckers don't even want to come to those states or the up charge is so much that pellets cost $350+ per ton.
  One thing that would help the most is if people would buy early.  Dealers pay for those trucks 2-4 weeks after delivery year round there is no delayed payment program, low profit margin (15-17%), can't afford to to stock pile 100K worth of product and wait till Oct. for return.  Think about it, you don't want to part with your $$ sooner than you have to neither does a dealer.
  Also if your one of the people that goes to HD all year, please don't get upset with the local dealer when you go there in a bind and they can't bail you out.

There are enough pellets for everyone-There are not enough for everyone all at once- thats the way it's always been.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 1, 2014)

humpin iron said:


> Also if your one of the people that goes to HD all year, please don't get upset with the local dealer when you go there in a bind and they can't bail you out.



No problem. HD and Lowe's are it for pellets here. No local dealers. And the online outfits don't deliver to this area.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Oct 1, 2014)

bbfarm said:


> There were places like fleet farm that had pellets but i won't buy from them because they store them all outside, not under cover.  We got lots of freezing rain last year



Amen, brother. I brought home a ton from TSC and had to return five bags because they had obvious clumps from water intrusion. Beyond that, EVERY bag on the skid had some moisture on it. I'm done with them. 

Even Menards keeps their pellets under cover in these parts.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Oct 1, 2014)

What is the point of a dealer if they don't stock what they sell?

"You can't sell from an empty cart"

The reason a dealer has a mark up is because they invest in inventory to resell.


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## Bridgeman (Oct 1, 2014)

Regardless of the reasons the shortage is real. I went down to the local HD and paid for 3 tons a month early and they haven't called with a delivery date because their waiting on the trucks. Lowe's wouldn't take an order because they couldn't guarantee a delivery of the cheap stuff. I see big stacks at all the local TSC branches and that seems to be moving out early too! As of now, there is an unusual shortage of pellets in Concord NH. Does it last? If the pellet pigs are laying stock for next ice age, it may last a season or a month. I feel bad for those of us that can't afford the $800 to cover the winter. If the price gouging starts again there will trouble. Cord wood is pretty cheap in this area. I see myself changing over if things get out of hand. I may lay in a cord or three this winter just in case need it in a couple years. I can always sell it and make a few dollars if the pellet thing calms down.


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 1, 2014)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> What is the point of a dealer if they don't stock what they sell?.



You can't stock what you can't get.....


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## Pellet-King (Oct 1, 2014)

Stop Freaking Out!!, This is not 1998, If you didnt buy pellets by sept you were screwed!!


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## Bridgeman (Oct 1, 2014)

I was burning wood in 98'. I had no idea there was a wood pellet stove available. So what happened to cause the shortage?


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## TimfromMA (Oct 2, 2014)

Bridgeman said:


> I was burning wood in 98'. I had no idea there was a wood pellet stove available. So what happened to cause the shortage?



There are a few theories.

1. Pellet companies make more money exporting pellets leaving less for locals.
2. After last years late season shortages, people are hoarding them.
3. This is just temporary. Most pellet burners have bought their entire season's worth already and supplies will rebound since they have no need to buy more this year.


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## wsar10 (Oct 2, 2014)

If you allow this forum to fuel a pellet shortage, than your one of the sheeples that cast a vote based on what the media tells you ! Quite unfortunate, but the case most of the time. People are too lazy to research ANYTHING anymore.

That being said, I did not run out and buy 10 tons last year because the "forum" said there was a shortage, I simply observed my local market and verified there was no shortage within my local market. I also have a clear understanding (based on simple logistics and economics) that there will *always* be shorter supply_ in certain geographical locations_.

Locally there are hundreds of tons currently available, and there was last year ALL YEAR as well.


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## Enzo's Dad (Oct 2, 2014)

CBL said:


> I have a hard time drinking the kool-aid with those calculators vs real world. If I burned heating oil all winter I'd use about 650-700 gallons (about $2000-2200 @ 3.06) for the whole seasons with about a 68f indoor ambient. I spend about $800-9 with wood pellets and keep an ambi of 75-77 downstairs and 72-73 upstairs in my colonial. Not only are we much warmer but real world savings is about $1000 a season.



Agreed and oil will spike up to 3.50 ish on the first cold snap


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## TimfromMA (Oct 2, 2014)

I always buy my entire season's worth in April when my dealer offers his early buy discounts. Over a typical season, I'll burn 3 1/2 tons. While I didn't run out, I did run low last year due to the longer than usual burn season. I bought 2 extra tons this year just for some extra breathing room bringing my total on hand to 6 tons. Next year, everyone who bought up pellets this year will only have to buy enough to replenish what they used this winter.


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## JustWood (Oct 2, 2014)

wsar10 said:


> If you allow this forum to fuel a pellet shortage, than your one of the sheeples that cast a vote based on what the media tells you ! Quite unfortunate, but the case most of the time. People are too lazy to research ANYTHING anymore.
> 
> That being said, I did not run out and buy 10 tons last year because the "forum" said there was a shortage, I simply observed my local market and verified there was no shortage within my local market. I also have a clear understanding (based on simple logistics and economics) that there will *always* be shorter supply_ in certain geographical locations_.
> 
> Locally there are hundreds of tons currently available, and there was last year ALL YEAR as well.


We are going on 10 months of low inventories east of the Mississippi River (west, not so much). More of the inland mill production is being distributed to areas where they will fetch a higher $ (coastal).
Your results this next winter/spring will likely be very different.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 2, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> There are a few theories.
> 
> 1. Pellet companies make more money exporting pellets leaving less for locals.
> 2. After last years late season shortages, people are hoarding them.
> 3. This is just temporary. Most pellet burners have bought their entire season's worth already and supplies will rebound since they have no need to buy more this year.



4. Trucking.


----------



## briansol (Oct 2, 2014)

5.  People are spending less on cabinets, wood flooring, etc etc that creates source material for mills to press pellets out of


----------



## Rubicon 327 (Oct 2, 2014)

This doesn't help people in our area right now. http://www.middletownpress.com/busi...t-seeks-to-shutter-middletown-pellet-business


----------



## forthekill (Oct 2, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I always buy my entire season's worth in April when my dealer offers his early buy discounts. Over a typical season, I'll burn 3 1/2 tons. While I didn't run out, I did run low last year due to the longer than usual burn season. I bought 2 extra tons this year just for some extra breathing room bringing my total on hand to 6 tons. Next year, everyone who bought up pellets this year will only have to buy enough to replenish what they used this winter.



The problem with the dealer I use is that the "early buy" price wasn't even a discount. It was the same I paid last year, so I waited not wanting to store pellets all summer. I ended up paying the same price I paid before when I ordered just recently.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 2, 2014)

forthekill said:


> The problem with the dealer I use is that the "early buy" price wasn't even a discount. It was the same I paid last year, so I waited not wanting to store pellets all summer. I ended up paying the same price I paid before when I ordered just recently.



A lot of people in this area, thought the same thing. why buy early if there is no discount?
The only advantage I can see, is right now when they call for their order, they are finding out
there aren't any.. so waiting might not have been the hot setup.
Everyone has their own strategy. Some may change theirs next year..
You  are lucky your area has them. Others don't.

Dan


----------



## Enzo's Dad (Oct 2, 2014)

Maybe off topic,,,,,but is this a good business to get into? I have been watching the process on youtube, starts with wood chips and saw dust.


----------



## forthekill (Oct 2, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> A lot of people in this area, thought the same thing. why buy early if there is no discount?
> The only advantage I can see, is right now when they call for their order, they are finding out
> there aren't any.. so waiting might not have been the hot setup.
> Everyone has their own strategy. Some may change theirs next year..
> ...



I guess for me it's the practice of advertising a "special price" that isn't really that special. But I suppose that's better than preying on the fears of people with "get them now so you don't get left out in the cold" kind of marketing, whether true or not.

I liken it to the practice of oil companies getting you to pay early for the season's oil in hopes that the price will actually drop for them so they make more money than if you just buy as you need or when the price is favorable.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 2, 2014)

forthekill said:


> I guess for me it's the practice of advertising a "special price" that isn't really that special. But I suppose that's better than preying on the fears of people with "get them now so you don't get left out in the cold" kind of marketing, whether true or not.


To be honest, I don't think there are many dealers that have been doing it for a while, that resort to the scare tactic.
We started preaching the "buy early", in late spring, because we had that gut feeling it was going to hit the fan. 
And the worse that could happen, would be that you had your stuff early. 
Naturally, the downside was you might not get what you want if you wait too long.
And here we are.... no stock.
As for the 'discount/special price', as it turns out, the prices are starting to rise now, so early on, even though
not advertised as discount, turns out to actually be one..
Things hopefully will get better.. we kept getting told it will.  But that isn't helping a lot right now.
And that opinion does not carry a guarantee...

Dan


----------



## the pony boy (Oct 2, 2014)

Lowes poughkeesie is showing 1700+ bags.


----------



## Bridgeman (Oct 2, 2014)

I haven't been called lazy before. That is interesting. I'm a bridge maintenance superintendent. We don't do lazy 150' up on a beam in -10 with the wind blowing. What do you do for a living?
I was actually asking what caused the shortage of pellets in 1998.  There is lots of data available for the 2005 shortage. It looks like spikes in demand from new users plus a cold winter is a common cause. I guess the mills don't make pellets just in case we have an extra cold  winter. The cold obviously puts stress on the production cost too.


----------



## ChrisWNY (Oct 2, 2014)

I guess we're fortunate in WNY. Most of the big box stores have plentiful supplies of wood pellets, and the manager I spoke with at TSC the other night said he was $20k short on sales so far this season for wood pellets so he actually has an overstock right now (there were at least 100 tons stacked behind the store). Going rate here is $200-$245 per ton.


----------



## Big papa (Oct 2, 2014)

Looks like a road trip to ny any wanna go


----------



## JustWood (Oct 3, 2014)

ChrisWNY said:


> I guess we're fortunate in WNY. Most of the big box stores have plentiful supplies of wood pellets, and the manager I spoke with at TSC the other night said he was $20k short on sales so far this season for wood pellets so he actually has an overstock right now (there were at least 100 tons stacked behind the store). Going rate here is $200-$245 per ton.


There are 7 mills in the West PenNY-ginia region. A highly concentrated forested area with lots of well established forest product business'. My company hauls in and out of 1 of the larger pellet mills and inventory is no where near what it has been in the past. Lower inventories and higher demand/prices in other areas could make for an exodus in local inventories .
Our wood orders are at all time lows. The slowest I've seen it in 26 years. Highly unusual coming off one of the worst winters in a long time. All production is usually spoken for until December shutdown by now. Orders are only out about 4 weeks right now.
I'm not buying into the truck shortage issues I've been hearing.It may have been an issue last winter when temps were consistently below zero but there should be no issues now. Products and imports coming inland need trucks returning to coastal regions.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 3, 2014)

forthekill said:


> The problem with the dealer I use is that the "early buy" price wasn't even a discount. It was the same I paid last year, so I waited not wanting to store pellets all summer. I ended up paying the same price I paid before when I ordered just recently.



My dealer wasn't sure at first if they would even offer an early buy discount this year when I bought my pellets. When the discount actually took place, he refunded me the difference.


----------



## briansol (Oct 3, 2014)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Maybe off topic,,,,,but is this a good business to get into? I have been watching the process on youtube, starts with wood chips and saw dust.


There's a BIG startup cost, that's for sure.  I'd be happy to test any product samples :D


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 3, 2014)

Bridgeman said:


> I haven't been called lazy before.



did we miss something


----------



## Bridgeman (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm not sure, but I ask a question and it seemed that I was too lazy to look it up on the web. Hard to tell. I had a root canal a few hours earlier and not in best state to be posting. I need to fire up the stove for calming flame ambiance.


----------



## bbeals (Oct 3, 2014)

I am not sure about any particular shortage, when we bought our Rockland 550, I couldn't find a pellet tree in the state, so we opted for a chainsaw and a wood stove.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 3, 2014)

bbeals said:


> I am not sure about any particular shortage, when we bought our Rockland 550, I couldn't find a pellet tree in the state, so we opted for a chainsaw and a wood stove.



But can you start it by the push of a button or regulate the house temperature within 2 degrees?


----------



## bbeals (Oct 3, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> But can you start it by the push of a button or regulate the house temperature within 2 degrees?


Fair, and no.  But my furnace will regulate to a half a degree, but when were burning, it never runs.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 3, 2014)

A friend of mine who lives in NH has a woodstove. According to him, It is illegal to transport firewood across county lines due to invasive insects like the asian longhorn beetle. No such restriction on pellets.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 3, 2014)

I wondered how long it would take a cord wood burner to show up and poop in the thread.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 4, 2014)

bbeals said:


> Fair, and no.  But my furnace will regulate to a half a degree, but when were burning, it never runs.



My furnace has done nothing except provide hot water for years.


----------



## Don2222 (Oct 4, 2014)

Our local Home Depot is running behind on their wood pellet sales. The have pre-paid orders for 60 tons last time the guy checked. They only get one tracker trailer load of 22 tons, if that at the beginning of each week. So probably a month behind!

Our local Lowes only has 3-4 tons of their most expensive pellets left last night. Green Team at $299 per ton. They will be gone this morning!

So there may be an issue with getting some pellets.


----------



## Tonyray (Oct 4, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> My furnace has done nothing except provide hot water for years.


Tim,
since your only using your furnace just for Hot water, do you lower the original temp settings?
Normal operation for Heat/Hot water is 180 degree high/160 low .    this would be normal setup having hot water baseboard heat/Oil Fired furnace
but wondering if I should lower temps since not using for heat myself...


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 4, 2014)

No. Ive left it alone.


----------



## moey (Oct 4, 2014)

Tonyray said:


> Tim,
> since your only using your furnace just for Hot water, do you lower the original temp settings?
> Normal operation for Heat/Hot water is 180 degree high/160 low .    this would be normal setup having hot water baseboard heat/Oil Fired furnace
> but wondering if I should lower temps since not using for heat myself...



Does your boiler cycle if there is no call for hot water?

Nevermind you would not have a low setting if it was not cycling to maintain temp. You could turn the low down as low as it would go although Im sure someone will say its bad for your boiler. I converted mine to a cold start when I wasnt running the heat and just producing hot water.


----------



## Tonyray (Oct 4, 2014)

moey said:


> Does your boiler cycle if there is no call for hot water?
> 
> Nevermind you would not have a low setting if it was not cycling to maintain temp. You could turn the low down as low as it would go although Im sure someone will say its bad for your boiler. I converted mine to a cold start when I wasnt running the heat and just producing hot water.


Boiler will cycle when the temp drops 20 degrees. have it set at 20 degree differential.
Actually checked and it's still at summer settings... 160 high/140 low....


----------



## David Holmes (Oct 4, 2014)

Read my lips, There is no pellet shortage, give them time. Sometimes they have them then they run out then they order, then they have them etc etc.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 4, 2014)

David Holmes said:


> Read my lips, There is no pellet shortage.


Read my lips.
Shortage doesn't have to mean there are no pellets on the planet.
But if there are none "in your area"...and you can't get them...  there is a shortage.


----------



## Big papa (Oct 4, 2014)

I bought 6 tons in May no pellet shortage at my house


----------



## Justin M (Oct 4, 2014)

David Holmes said:


> Read my lips, There is no pellet shortage, give them time. Sometimes they have them then they run out then they order, then they have them etc etc.


Ct Pellets: " Please know that with the current wood pellet shortage across the entire northeast, we are currently able to supply our regular existing customers exclusively. We truly regret that right now we do not have the inventory to take on any new customers this season."

Burn Time Enterprises: " Due to the shortages, product availability changes on a day to day basis."

Trading Post: " WE HAVE SOLD OUT OF OUR GUARANTEED PELLET DELIVERIES FROM OUR SUPPLIER. STARTING IN OCTOBER, WE WILL HAVE LIMITED SUPPLIES OF BAG SALES."

If there is no shortage here then there sure must be a big conspiracy with all the retailers.


----------



## David Holmes (Oct 5, 2014)

I see the price going up, no shortage here in Ontario Home Depo, Walmart Crappy Tire. They run out due to the early onset of cold weather but after a few days full stock. My buddy and I just rec'd 10 tons delivered. Feel sorry for you guys in the northeast could be another cold winter coming.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 5, 2014)

I hate to sound callous, but lots of us, myself included, have been practically begging people to buy their pellets early. Those that didn't listen only have themselves to blame if they cant find any.


----------



## BKVP (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm not a pellet guy, but a very good friend owns two mills here in the NW.  He is currently visiting dealers in NE selling them pellets.  They will need to go by rail across the good old USA.  He tells me business is EXCELLENT and selling has never been easier.


----------



## bill3rail (Oct 7, 2014)

No shortage at all!  It is all in your minds!
My house will be at 75d all winter if I need it.  
I may even go out and buy another ton just to store some in the basement.

Bill


----------



## twodogs02 (Oct 7, 2014)

My dealer has 28 tons of barefoot in stock.  Home Depot had 20 skids in their garden center, Lowes a little less.  TSC had roughly 15 skids outside but most are pre-purchase and waiting for pick up.  I'm in the Syracuse,  NY area and there are pellets to be had on a walk in basis.  This thread is interesting if you review the members who are claiming shortages and their location on the map.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 7, 2014)

I really have no idea what the status of pellet availability is in my area. All I know for sure is that there is no shortage at my house.


----------



## apandori (Oct 7, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I really have no idea what the status of pellet availability is in my area. All I know for sure is that there is no shortage at my house.


No shortage for me either!


----------



## iron stove (Oct 7, 2014)

twodogs02 said:


> This thread is interesting if you review the members who are claiming shortages and their location on the map.



Bingo. Its basically CT, Ma, and southern half of ME, NH, and possibly VT. Small size wise, but HUGE population wise !


----------



## DneprDave (Oct 7, 2014)

They oughta combine all those little bitty states into one regular sized state!  

Dave


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 7, 2014)

DneprDave said:


> They oughta combine all those little bitty states into one regular sized state!
> 
> Dave


 I like being able to drive 3 hours in any direction and cross at least 2 state lines


----------



## iron stove (Oct 7, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I like being able to drive 3 hours in any direction and cross at least 2 state lines



I've SNOWMOBILED across 3 state lines in less than 3 hours


----------



## Pete Zahria (Oct 7, 2014)

DneprDave said:


> They oughta combine all those little bitty states into one regular sized state!
> 
> Dave


No thanks....


----------



## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 7, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> Read my lips.
> Shortage doesn't have to mean there are no pellets on the planet.
> But if there are none "in your area"...and you can't get them...  there is a shortage.



I have to agree with the Zahria post.  It's a logical conclusion.


----------



## Tim Linden (Oct 8, 2014)

It was tough getting them from Home Depot over here..  I had to keep checking in until a shipment
came in and order in person because they were selling them as soon as they come in.

A friend talked to a "high end" pellet truck driver and the driver said they are low on
inventory and thinks there will be a shortage this year. So it might be regional but without
reading this forum lots of talk about shortages around here.


----------



## LGTWhit (Oct 9, 2014)

Saw a few bags of damaged chows at the depot so figured I'd throw them into the mix to test on top of my 5 tons of Geneva. Got the cash lady to take 50% off for $2.50/bag. They appear to be dry.





Then to Tractor Supply for MWP


----------



## whitetailscout (Oct 9, 2014)

I am running out of options. I thought I could get Stove Chow or FSU by the ton at HD, but they are just putting out one skid at a time, no ton sales. I went to Lowe's, and they have Timber Heat or Green Team for $237.50. They have Green Team Platinum for $300/ton, but none are in stock, and the next truckload is already sold even though they said that you can't order ahead of time. I asked how it was possible fro the truckload to be sold if they don't take orders ahead of time, and was told that "an associate made an error, which has been corrected." I asked how I could acquire 2 tons of the Platinum, and they told me I need to get lucky and be the first guy in line when the truck arrives(they could not tell me when the truck would arrive!).


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 9, 2014)

whitetailscout said:


> I am running out of options. I thought I could get Stove Chow or FSU by the ton at HD, but they are just putting out one skid at a time, no ton sales. I went to Lowe's, and they have Timber Heat or Green Team for $237.50. They have Green Team Platinum for $300/ton, but none are in stock, and the next truckload is already sold even though they said that you can't order ahead of time. I asked how it was possible fro the truckload to be sold if they don't take orders ahead of time, and was told that "an associate made an error, which has been corrected." I asked how I could acquire 2 tons of the Platinum, and they told me I need to get lucky and be the first guy in line when the truck arrives(they could not tell me when the truck would arrive!).



You have any Tractor Supply stores near you?  Every one I have stopped at so far in NH has sales by the ton and seem to be charging $254 a ton regardless of what brand you buy.  Some stores have different brands than others and they do not deliver.


----------



## Tim Linden (Oct 9, 2014)

whitetailscout said:


> I am running out of options. I thought I could get Stove Chow or FSU by the ton at HD, but they are just putting out one skid at a time, no ton sales. I went to Lowe's, and they have Timber Heat or Green Team for $237.50. They have Green Team Platinum for $300/ton, but none are in stock, and the next truckload is already sold even though they said that you can't order ahead of time. I asked how it was possible fro the truckload to be sold if they don't take orders ahead of time, and was told that "an associate made an error, which has been corrected." I asked how I could acquire 2 tons of the Platinum, and they told me I need to get lucky and be the first guy in line when the truck arrives(they could not tell me when the truck would arrive!).



Yup thats what I did. My wife called up and they had a truckload come in and only 4 were left so I dropped everything
and drove there to order in person. Just call every day!


----------



## Ctcarl (Oct 9, 2014)

whitetailscout said:


> I am running out of options. I thought I could get Stove Chow or FSU by the ton at HD, but they are just putting out one skid at a time, no ton sales. I went to Lowe's, and they have Timber Heat or Green Team for $237.50. They have Green Team Platinum for $300/ton, but none are in stock, and the next truckload is already sold even though they said that you can't order ahead of time. I asked how it was possible fro the truckload to be sold if they don't take orders ahead of time, and was told that "an associate made an error, which has been corrected." I asked how I could acquire 2 tons of the Platinum, and they told me I need to get lucky and be the first guy in line when the truck arrives(they could not tell me when the truck would arrive!).


That what I was experiencing here in ct.when I called a lowes and scooped up 4 tons of green team with a card over the phone.then got 30 bagsof stove chow from a hd that just puts out a skid a time.that was 3 weeks ago I pray I'm good for the winter this searching sux.


----------



## whitetailscout (Oct 9, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> You have any Tractor Supply stores near you?  Every one I have stopped at so far in NH has sales by the ton and seem to be charging $254 a ton regardless of what brand you buy.  Some stores have different brands than others and they do not deliver.



Yes, I do, and they have pellets, I am just skeptical of what they carry. They have the TSC brand, and some called Pure Fire. 

My local dealer is only quoting a 2 week wait, which is fine since I have 17 bags to hold me over. However, they went from carrying MWP for $$255 to carrying something called Trae Fire, which they want $305 for. I know nothing about these pellets, except they come from Virginia.


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 9, 2014)

whitetailscout said:


> Yes, I do, and they have pellets, I am just skeptical of what they carry. They have the TSC brand, and some called Pure Fire.
> 
> My local dealer is only quoting a 2 week wait, which is fine since I have 17 bags to hold me over. However, they went from carrying MWP for $$255 to carrying something called Trae Fire, which they want $305 for. I know nothing about these pellets, except they come from Virginia.



If you can get the UPC number off the bag at TSC, someone on the board might be able to tell you what the actual brand is.  As an example, I have Maine's Choice, which really are Green Supremes, which really are NEWP's.  I am getting more convinced that all pellets come from the same place and someone is really screwing with us.


----------



## snocross1985 (Oct 9, 2014)

People at my local Home Depot were laughing when I grabbed 4 tons of FSU in August. They are out right now and some stores nearby are also out. However one HD 18 miles away has 50 tons in stock. Too far for me if I needed to go get them one ton at a time. Glad I went in August. No shortage at my house and a warm house means mama and my boy are happy.


----------



## killie11 (Oct 9, 2014)

Spring brook oil got 20 tons of energex in and was all gone within a couple of hours.


----------



## Markus38 (Oct 9, 2014)

Shortage or not, Lowe's just raised their price to 267.84 a ton for GS.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 9, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> If you can get the UPC number off the bag at TSC, someone on the board might be able to tell you what the actual brand is.  As an example, I have Maine's Choice, which really are Green Supremes, which really are NEWP's.  I am getting more convinced that all pellets come from the same place and someone is really screwing with us.



About those Maine's Choice since when were they NEWP pellets?

Maine's Choice is produced by Geneva Wood Fuels at their plant at 30 Norton Hill Road in Strong, Maine.


----------



## LGTWhit (Oct 9, 2014)

My thoughts exactly, from all my research found nothing about NEWP's being the same.


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 9, 2014)

Markus38 said:


> Shortage or not, Lowe's just raised their price to 267.84 a ton for GS.



They know panic buying when they see it.


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 9, 2014)

LGTWhit said:


> My thoughts exactly, from all my research found nothing about NEWP's being the same.



Thought I read that on this forum a couple of weeks ago in a post directed to me from a member when I wrote I had picked up a couple of tons.  If they are Geneva's, that was also on my list to try and I am anxious to get started.


----------



## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 9, 2014)

LGTWhit said:


> Saw a few bags of damaged chows at the depot so figured I'd throw them into the mix to test on top of my 5 tons of Geneva. Got the cash lady to take 50% off for $2.50/bag. They appear to be dry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go to firewoodhoarders.com and there's a post re current TSC upc producers..... You might be surprised who the upc connects the production run to!


----------



## RhodyPelletRook (Oct 9, 2014)

Markus38 said:


> Shortage or not, Lowe's just raised their price to 267.84 a ton for GS.



Ridiculous!!


----------



## briansol (Oct 9, 2014)

still won't pay $100/t for Gs


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 9, 2014)

LGTWhit said:


> My thoughts exactly, from all my research found nothing about NEWP's being the same.



When I was at Lowes, all the pellets were spoken for.  Chatted with the head sales clerk and was informed that they were trying to get the customers who were waiting for agrees Supreme to switch to Maine's Choice and told them they were actually Green Supreme under a different name and would I like a ton of two since no one seemed to want them.  The UPC's matched the name brand GS bags they had there so I assumed that was good info.  On this forum, several have said Green Supremes are NEWP pellets.  All very confusing but I just hope the Accentra 52i likes what I feed it.


----------



## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 10, 2014)

Green Supreme and NEWP are the same proprietary brand. NEWP is bagged in Jaffrey NH and the GS are bagged at one of their NY plants. As stated earlier Maines Choice are rebagged Genevas


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 10, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Green Supreme and NEWP are the same proprietary brand. NEWP is bagged in Jaffrey NH and the GS are bagged at one of their NY plants. As stated earlier Maines Choice are rebagged Genevas



Well, that would certainly explain why folks who wanted GS wouldn't switch.  Thanks.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> Thought I read that on this forum a couple of weeks ago in a post directed to me from a member when I wrote I had picked up a couple of tons.  If they are Geneva's, that was also on my list to try and I am anxious to get started.




Greene Supremes were a bagged store brand that were made by NEWP.   

I doubt if the small mill in Strong does store brands.   

Whenever dealing with store brands you need to check the actual UPC on the product to know who actually made that product and yes it can change over time.  Geneva has more than one product however, Maine's Choice is one of their brands.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> Well, that would certainly explain why folks who wanted GS wouldn't switch.  Thanks.



Now from what I read on here and other places along with some posted pictures I don't know of anyone who wouldn't try another brand just to see if it didn't produce as much ash as the Green Supremes were, but that might just be me.

ETA: I have a cousin who exclusively burns Maine's Choice.


----------



## dlehneman (Oct 10, 2014)

Maines Choice burned cleaner then Green Supreme for me, but with a bit less heat. So if the price is right, they might make a good shoulder season pellet. Lowe's new prices are crazy though, hopefully HD doesn't follow suit.


----------



## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 10, 2014)

dlehneman said:


> Maines Choice burned cleaner then Green Supreme for me, but with a bit less heat. So if the price is right, they might make a good shoulder season pellet. Lowe's new prices are crazy though, hopefully HD doesn't follow suit.


TSC has gone up as well. $264.50 per ton minus a $10 full pallet discount.


----------



## pell it (Oct 10, 2014)

Markus38 said:


> Shortage or not, Lowe's just raised their price to 267.84 a ton for GS.



Greene Team are up to $350 a ton at lowes.  Somebody is smoking something good!!


----------



## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 10, 2014)

pell it said:


> Greene Team are up to $350 a ton at lowes.  Somebody is smoking something good!!


wow....


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 10, 2014)

pell it said:


> Greene Team are up to $350 a ton at lowes.  Somebody is smoking something good!!


That's more than what I paid for Douglas Fir


----------



## Harmanizer (Oct 10, 2014)

The panic has just begun!


----------



## dradam1 (Oct 10, 2014)

So much for everyone's calculated savings.


----------



## TimfromMA (Oct 10, 2014)

Still saving quite a bit just not quite as much as last year.


----------



## briansol (Oct 10, 2014)

meanwhile, Oil dropped... AGAIN.


----------



## Peterfield (Oct 10, 2014)

briansol said:


> meanwhile, Oil dropped... AGAIN.



I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


----------



## dradam1 (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


 Oh no
, only going to be 70 degrees next week,  better get another two ton.


----------



## whitetailscout (Oct 10, 2014)

pell it said:


> Greene Team are up to $350 a ton at lowes.  Somebody is smoking something good!!


At my local Lowes, the $300+/ton pellets are branded as the Green Team Platinum.


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## Ctcarl (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> When I was at Lowes, all the pellets were spoken for.  Chatted with the head sales clerk and was informed that they were trying to get the customers who were waiting for agrees Supreme to switch to Maine's Choice and told them they were actually Green Supreme under a different name and would I like a ton of two since no one seemed to want them.  The UPC's matched the name brand GS bags they had there so I assumed that was good info.  On this forum, several have said Green Supremes are NEWP pellets.  All very confusing but I just hope the Accentra 52i likes what I feed it.


Your 52i will eat it no problem .my complaint from having 3 tons of green supreme last years was it made my p35i dirty as heck after one ton cleaning.then when I used green team a night and day difference on how much better heat and less ash.


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## JustWood (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


Raw material production comes close to a standstill mid Nov-early Jan.
Id bet this year under average seasonal temps finished pellet inventories will seriously tighten by January.


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## TimfromMA (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


I haven't bought pellets since April.


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## SwineFlue (Oct 10, 2014)

briansol said:


> meanwhile, Oil dropped... AGAIN.


Oil is $2.99 here... equivalent to "standard" 8000 BTU/lb  pellets at $340/ton. 



TimfromMA said:


> I haven't bought pellets since April.


Same here... before the prices went up


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## thebigo (Oct 10, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Green Supreme and NEWP are the same proprietary brand. NEWP is bagged in Jaffrey NH and the GS are bagged at one of their NY plants. As stated earlier Maines Choice are rebagged Genevas



You sure? I have burned Maines Choice and Geneva in succession, purchased within a couple of weeks, and they were definitely different in both appearance and how they burned. I read somewhere that Geneva uses different fiber for each label.

I have also purchased Green Supreme shipped form Jaffrey, not sure why they would rebag, I have to assume they sell far more green supreme label than newp label.


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## moey (Oct 10, 2014)

Just saw a oil sign for $2.84... Seriously folks if your having trouble finding pellets and have a decent home heating system your not saving much money burning pellets.


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## PELLETCONVERT (Oct 10, 2014)

moey said:


> Just saw a oil sign for $2.84... Seriously folks if your having trouble finding pellets and have a decent home heating system your not saving much money burning pellets.


At the moment, can change quickly........
one possible storm in the gulf, geopolitical incident, or cold weather

Always goes up a LOT faster than down


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## johnpma (Oct 10, 2014)

yesterday I paid $3.17/gallon for gasoline at the pump. Last night I stopped at TSC and I heard the manager say that next week pellets are going up $25/ton because of transportation costs.....I do not understand transportation increases when the price of both gasoline and diesel is down


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 10, 2014)

thebigo said:


> You sure? I have burned Maines Choice and Geneva in succession, purchased within a couple of weeks, and they were definitely different in both appearance and how they burned. I read somewhere that Geneva uses different fiber for each label.
> 
> I have also purchased Green Supreme shipped form Jaffrey, not sure why they would rebag, I have to assume they sell far more green supreme label than newp label.


Yes, I'm sure...it's been documented here many times.


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## Tim Linden (Oct 10, 2014)

johnpma said:


> yesterday I paid $3.17/gallon for gasoline at the pump. Last night I stopped at TSC and I heard the manager say that next week pellets are going up $25/ton because of transportation costs.....I do not understand transportation increases when the price of both gasoline and diesel is down



You have to look at the cost of Diesel. There is also costs for the truckers and their
trucks that keep going up too.


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## JustWood (Oct 10, 2014)

johnpma said:


> yesterday I paid $3.17/gallon for gasoline at the pump. Last night I stopped at TSC and I heard the manager say that next week pellets are going up $25/ton because of transportation costs.....I do not understand transportation increases when the price of both gasoline and diesel is down


Raw material has to be sourced from outside of normal pools. i.e. greater distances.
Pellets are coming to a retailer near you from greater distances.
Fuel alone in a loaded truck is +/- $1/mile.


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## SininStyle (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> When I was at Lowes, all the pellets were spoken for.  Chatted with the head sales clerk and was informed that they were trying to get the customers who were waiting for agrees Supreme to switch to Maine's Choice and told them they were actually Green Supreme under a different name and would I like a ton of two since no one seemed to want them.  The UPC's matched the name brand GS bags they had there so I assumed that was good info.  On this forum, several have said Green Supremes are NEWP pellets.  All very confusing but I just hope the Accentra 52i likes what I feed it.



which lowes was this?


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## Peterfield (Oct 10, 2014)

Tim Linden said:


> You have to look at the cost of Diesel. There is also costs for the truckers and their
> trucks that keep going up too.



Because they can't say they're gouging us until the hysteria subsides.  Some gas stations have done the same thing during "shortages".


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## Ctcarl (Oct 10, 2014)

This is a good thread I called my oil guy and he's charging 319 a gallon.that's the lowest I've seen it.so I told him to top it off.dnt know when it will get this low again.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 10, 2014)

moey said:


> Just saw a oil sign for $2.84... Seriously folks if your having trouble finding pellets and have a decent home heating system your not saving much money burning pellets.



You have to see it drop another 80 cents a gallon to equal my pellet costs.


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 10, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


Panic with the stock sitting there? What stock sitting there??
We had one ton for sale this morning.... Begging for stock... Would have no problem selling a trailer load every morning.
Happy as crap to get one a week..
Prices are going up.... You might believe they will go down... I don't see it.
People were accusing some of scare tactics.. Believe what you want....
There is one place locally selling 5 bag limits now. Yeah.. Like last spring. Except it's only October..
Our local Lowes isn't expecting to take orders until the end of November..

People that say they can get all they want... That's great, we are happy for you... But it ain't like that here...


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## TimfromMA (Oct 10, 2014)

I drove by Royal Fireside in Mendon, MA and their yard was full of pellets.


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 10, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I drove by Royal Fireside in Mendon, MA and their yard was full of pellets.


When I checked Lowes this morning they probly had 100 tons, or so.
Problem there, was that all had these little stickers on them that said "sold"...
They were at over 12,000 bags on the wait list.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 10, 2014)

Gonna be a lot of pellet stoves and pellets on craigslist next summer. Reminds me of the run on pellet stoves in 2008.


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## Deromax (Oct 10, 2014)

My cousin is a manager at a Rona shop and he said I was smart to purchase my stock back in august.  They are now out of stock of Orford/Ambiance and their next shipment due next week is already pre-sold.  They do have some Granulco in stock but it seems they are not very popular, for some reasons.


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## Peterfield (Oct 10, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> Panic with the stock sitting there? What stock sitting there??
> We had one ton for sale this morning.... Begging for stock... Would have no problem selling a trailer load every morning. ton in their
> Happy as crap to get one a week..
> Prices are going up.... You might believe they will go down... I don't see it.
> ...



Well, this morning I passed a TSC in New Hampster east of Concord that have stacks of pallets of pellets and a sign on them saying "buy by the ton and save".  Took a ride into the parking lot and they have stacks out front, stacks on the side of the building and mucho stacks in their storage yard in back.  Several pickup trucks were leaving with a ton in the back.


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## JustWood (Oct 11, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> Well, this morning I passed a TSC in New Hampster east of Concord that have stacks of pallets of pellets and a sign on them saying "buy by the ton and save".  Took a ride into the parking lot and they have stacks out front, stacks on the side of the building and mucho stacks in their storage yard in back.  Several pickup trucks were leaving with a ton in the back.


If I were a pellet maker you could bet yur last $ I wood supply a retailer that sells my product year round , first . Other retailers that move little product or only sell seasonal , wood have to suck   Orange Tang through a lamp wick. It's just good business .


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## Deromax (Oct 11, 2014)

However, if EU wants to buy your product in bulk for, say, 50% more than the locals, guess who would get the stuff?  They recently built those 150 feet high silos in the Quebec city harbor, where they are shipping pellets by the boat-load to EU.  This is real!


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## RMongeau (Oct 11, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> I drove by Royal Fireside in Mendon, MA and their yard was full of pellets.



I emailed Royal Fireside a few weeks ago, after seeing their name mentioned here a few times. Wanted to see if they had any stock.
I never got a reply.


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## CBL (Oct 11, 2014)

pell it said:


> Greene Team are up to $350 a ton at lowes.  Somebody is smoking something good!!



Huh? 



moey said:


> Just saw a oil sign for $2.84... Seriously folks if your having trouble finding pellets and have a decent home heating system your not saving much money burning pellets.



The shale revolution is here. Frack baby, frack.


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 11, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> Well, this morning I passed a TSC in New Hampster east of Concord that have stacks of pallets of pellets and a sign on them saying "buy by the ton and save".



Great news!
For you guys.....  ...
I just called our TSC (Rochester), and they had 60 this morning, now have less than 20 (3:20pm),
knows he will be out tomorrow.. don't know what or when he will get more....

I just called each of these.
TSC Rochester <20.. So later today probly out
Walmart out
Home Depot Rochester out
Home Depot Somersworth <20 ton... so later today probly out
Lowes out
Middleton out
McManus out
TSC Epping, just got them in, a few brands, should be good for a week?

Keep in mind when a place, right now, has 20-30-40 ton on the ground,
that is nothing. That'll go very fast.
Lowes sold ~40 just this morning. So for discussion only, that's two trailer truck loads..

Dan


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## CTguy9230 (Oct 11, 2014)

I just picked up 5 tons of Presto-logs from my local Lowes
I bought one yesterday and bought the rest today because they said they have a 4 ton limit


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## Big papa (Oct 11, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Gonna be a lot of pellet stoves and pellets on craigslist next summer. Reminds me of the run on pellet stoves in 2008.


I'm not selling my stove till I burn through six tons!lol


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## BrotherBart (Oct 11, 2014)

Heck you are still working on the first bag.


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## Big papa (Oct 11, 2014)

Yep so it will be awhile. here to stay.temps are dropping into the mid 30's overnight so going to burn another bag lol.i extended my temp probe today so anxious to see if it works better now


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## the pony boy (Oct 11, 2014)

Just used a lowes coupon at my local hd (southeast)and grabbed a ton of chows. I've had no problem obtaining pellets this year and have averaged 210 a ton for the six tons I have purchased. I did note that my hd had zero tons available online but had 22 available on the computer inthe store.


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## The Grintch (Oct 13, 2014)

Define "Pellet Panic"

My buddy got an insert installed the last week of September, the place he bought it from won't be able to get him the 4 tons he ordered until the the 2nd week of November if everything goes well.

South Shore pellets- not taking orders
Pellets Direct- not taking orders
Wood pellets.com- sometime in November
Kirleys- November 

So on and so on.


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## Big papa (Oct 13, 2014)

The Grintch said:


> Define "Pellet Panic"
> 
> My buddy got an insert installed the last week of September, the place he bought it from won't be able to get him the 4 tons he ordered until the the 2nd week of November if everything goes well.
> 
> ...


I think we might just have a pellet shortage. That stinks kinda like having a new toy for Christmas and no batteries.hope they get him his pellets soon


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## whitetailscout (Oct 13, 2014)

The Grintch said:


> Define "Pellet Panic"
> 
> My buddy got an insert installed the last week of September, the place he bought it from won't be able to get him the 4 tons he ordered until the the 2nd week of November if everything goes well.
> 
> ...


Quarry Brothers in Rehoboth has a 2 week wait right now.


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## xSpecBx (Oct 13, 2014)

With oil prices so low, I wonder if pellets will become available later in the season as people use oil instead. I know I probably won't start using pellets until December when oil prices should go back up and the temperature continues to drop


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## Pete Zahria (Oct 13, 2014)

Got 32 ton in this morning.
Gone.

Dan


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## globewyre (Oct 13, 2014)

Its almost as bad as 2008.


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## bill3rail (Oct 13, 2014)

Peterfield said:


> I'm wondering that if everyone would just be calm and we had a one month moratorium on buying (for those who have pellets already), I suspect the prices would start dropping when panic sets in at the retailer level as their stock just sits there.


We, meaning all pellet heads, would never be able to coordinate this!  Great idea, but not achievable.

Bill


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## bill3rail (Oct 13, 2014)

briansol said:


> meanwhile, Oil dropped... AGAIN.



And I am locked in at 3.40/Gal...  I will have to buy another 60 gallons this winter!

Current COD cost/Gal
*Gallons Price/Gallon*
25.0-49.9 $3.819
50.0-74.9 $3.279
75.0-99.9 $3.099
100.0-149.9 $2.999
150.0-199.9 $2.979
200.0-249.9 $2.929
250.0-299.9 $2.925
300.0-399.9 $2.919
400.0-499.9 $2.919
500.0-999.9
 $2.899


I just paid $388.00 for two ton of pellets so I should be good for the year...

Bill


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