# LED indoor bulbs?



## pybyr (Jan 19, 2011)

Anyone able to report any experience on use of LED indoor light bulbs that install into regular lamps/ fixtures, just like CFLs?

I was an early adopter of CFLs, but the newest CFLs do not seem to last as long as the earlier ones.  

I'd like to give an LED unit or three a try in several locations that see most long-on intervals- but only if reports are that these products are ready for prime time, reliable, and not prohibitively expensive on a life-cycle-cost (bulb+ energy to operate) basis.

Thanks


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## semipro (Jan 19, 2011)

We're using a pair of indoor spot LEDs that I bought at Home Depot to light our fireplace.  We picked this location because these lights get a lot of use and because we dim them.  I'd tried dimmable CFLs there but didn't like the color and have had trouble with failures of dimmable CFLs and some CFLs in general.  

We also bought one standard bulb for a table lamp that we use a lot.  It is not a dimmable fixture though.  The LED light seems to be a better color of light that were the CFLs we replaced. 

After about 6 months of use the LEDs seem to be doing well.  They put out a very nice light and dim well.  None of the three has failed.


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## peakbagger (Jan 19, 2011)

I have had bad luck with Osram Sylvania Strip Undercabinet LED lights. They have discontinued them but wont do anything about the ones that failed (average is about 3 months of daily operation). I dont know about other designs, but these are a LED's wired in series, whne one fails the entire string fails. I have fixed one just to diagnose the problems. If anyone want to play with them, I have 8 - 18" units that I wil give away if they pay shipping.


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## Corey (Jan 19, 2011)

That sounds like a deal...PM'd!


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## peakbagger (Jan 19, 2011)

Received PM, glad Igo do something with them


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## Delta-T (Jan 19, 2011)

bah, just hang LED xmas lights everywhere in your house. its festive and environmental conscience....my son's BR is entirely lit with Xmas lights, he thinks its the bee's knees.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 19, 2011)

I bought one to put in my fridge last year, since CFLS don't work well there & I sure don't want heat of an incandescent... Anyway the bulb casing was too big to fit there so I put it in the range hood light that my wife likes to use quite a bit.  It failed after about 6 months which I was very surprised to see   The light was nice, a little too dim, but good color.  This was a Sylvania, either 1.5 or 2W.
I've used LEDs in a flashlight and headlamps since 2002 and never had one fail.


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## begreen (Jan 20, 2011)

Prolly the heat that did it. Range hood + LED lamp does not sound like a good combo.


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## AVIVIII (Jan 21, 2011)

I have been looking at the CREE CR6 to replace 8 can lights in out kitchen.

I made the jump to CFLs already and 8x65w incandescent to 8x19w CFL is nice. With the CR6 I'm looking at 8x10.5w LED, so I will almost cut the curant usage in half. I just don;t know if its worth $400+ to do the kitchen.

It works out to a very, very small savings over the life of the LED fixture, which is 50,000 hours; between that and stopping my wife from complaining about the warm up time, it might be worth it...


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## midwestcoast (Jan 24, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Prolly the heat that did it. Range hood + LED lamp does not sound like a good combo.


Will have to take some readings with IR thermo to see. I didn't expect temps very high, but maybe it gets warm enough that heat from the LED can't dissipate


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## maverick06 (Jan 24, 2011)

I have used 1 before, wasnt impressed with the color, and it was a tight spot, also not desirable. It died after a few months of near continuous use. It was a cheapo unit from china, and Although teh LED's will last forever, the electonics always seem to give it up first. 

Just about everything else is CFL, but I rarely seem to get the service life the package claims... but that is all I will use until LED's are a bit more economical.


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## tom in maine (Feb 17, 2011)

I picked one up to try from HD. It was on sale for $20 (yikes). It was a 40w equivalent.

It is not bad. The light is a little different, but then CFL's seemed that way when they were new.
When I do another house, I will use them. I just hope the price comes down.

I was in HD last week and they had a sale on LED recessed lights, fixtures and lights for $49.

That is a decent deal, considering I paid $20 for the recessed lights I put in my kitchen and the CFL's have been replaced at
least two times in the seven years they have been in place. 

As I understand it turning on and off CFL's diminishes their life expectancy on hour for every time it is flipped on and off.

Seems to be true, at least all my kitchen lights fail pretty close to each other time wise.


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## MishMouse (Feb 17, 2011)

I replaced most of my lights in my house with CFL.
What I found out is that the CFL seem to burn out much quicker then the regular bulbs.

This is causing issues due to disposal of mercury.
Regular bulbs I could just throw in the trash, these mercury bulbs I have to save until I get a few stored up so I can go to a place to properly dispose of them.

Does the LED lights last longer and use less electricity then the CFL?
If this is the case then I will start replacing the CFL with LED's.

Do they make a CFL that lasts longer and doesn't contain mecury?


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## begreen (Feb 17, 2011)

It took a while, but the newer cfl bulbs seem to be standing up ok. I date ours and they are lasting a little longer than the halogens they replaced. We recycle them at our local power company office.


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## dvellone (Feb 17, 2011)

I have a few led's in use as nightlights and in that regard they work well. Other than that use, or as very close task lighting I've yet to find an led that can even remotely compare to cfl's. 

My lighting is dc so I try to keep up with any innovations in efficient lighting, and although I can't comment on ac powered led's I can say that I haven't seen any led's (nor have suppliers that I speak to) that will provide the indoor lighting that we're used to. I don't think the technology is there yet. I've also read that you need to be careful about high powered led's in that their energy use can actually be pretty high. The cost of the brightest led's out there is also prohibitively expensive and that's a factor to take into consideration when comparing them to cfl's. 

I do use mostly cfl's and though I pay quite a bit for them in a dc format I have to say that their light quality is excellent. You'd never know they were cfl's by the warm light they put out - nothing like the older generations. Some have been in use in my kitchen and livingroom where they're on all the time and they're 6 years old. I also have a meter that indicates my electrical use (in and out) and they use a tiny amount compared to a standard incandescent.


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## WhitePine (Feb 17, 2011)

Here's a link to a magazine the focuses on LED lamp technology. It may answer some reliability questions. On line subscriptions are advertised as free.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/


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## dvellone (Feb 17, 2011)

I'll add here that the life rating of cfl's  is largely dependent on the switching cycle. Fluorescent bulbs don't do well when they're turned on and off frequently with little time between. If they're cheap this may not be much of a problem though cheap cfl's may be more sensitive as well.


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## Highbeam (Feb 29, 2012)

spamaliscous.


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## fossil (Feb 29, 2012)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> spamaliscous.



Got it, Highbeam...disappeared it.


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## billb3 (Mar 1, 2012)

I have some osram sylvania 40 watt LED bulbs that I have put in a dining room table that has 5 bulbs in it.
Quite a bit less heat than the 40 watt incandescent  bulbs and actually brighter.
Even with rebates they're a bit pricey still but in this particular application they've made reading the paper or a book  under that light much easier on the eyes. They dim fairly nice, too.


I have some CFL that are ten years old that are just starting to be abit slow turning on.


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## Jack Straw (Mar 1, 2012)

My limited understanding  (of LEDS) is that there is just about the same heat generated from LEDs but the heat goes up towards the fixture (there is a heat sink on them) whearas the heat from a regular bulb goes downward. This can be a concern on some applications.


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## btuser (Mar 8, 2012)

In order to dim CFL floods or bulbs you have to have the right dimmer. I found this out the hard way after $120 worth of recessed can bulbs lasted less than a year. Also, some CFLs don't like to be upside/down or sideways, which is why they may fail faster. Other than that I've had tremendous luck with them and they definitely do show a difference on the bill. LEDs are still too expensive to warrant replacement, but if I was replacing a fixture such as an outdoor flood or recessed cans I'd definitely go for them. 

Hijack warning:

Can't wait for the LEDs to start getting more affordable, especially the grow lights. Because you can tune the wavelength so narrow your input wattage has the potential to be much more efficient. I'd love to see indoor greenhouses feasible/profitable year round here in the Northeast. I'm thinking that if I could sequester enough heat in the day I wouldn't have to heat the greenhouse at night to keep it above frost temps and the addition of LED lights during the darkest part of the Winter would give me leafy greens. Maybe not flowering fruits like tomatoes but at least kale and other cooler-temp munchies.


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## brian89gp (Mar 8, 2012)

I bought a few of these:
http://deals.woot.com/deals/details...led-bulbs-from-google-and-f-i-r-s-t-cree-leds

I have two indoor lights and two outdoor lights I leave on 24/7.  These have been running for over a year, no failures.


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## moody (Mar 9, 2012)

i have some led bulbs i got from sams club they so far lasted over 2 years, they came in a pack of 3 i think i paid around 23 dollars for them,they are made by Lights of America http://www.lightsofamerica.com/Categories/LED/Bulbs/Globe.aspx


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## tractorman100 (Mar 9, 2012)

I sell lighting along with other electrical stuff. The LED floods are making good progress with the life and LUMEN output. We are selling TCP brand and Satco. That being said, the market is changing rapidly. One maker has an PAR30 LED with about 1000 lumens which is VERY GOOD and VERY PRICEY. The problems with making a linear light output device into a general lighting bulb (standard A19) is that the lighting is linear, straight line, whatever you want to call it. So it all boils down to the reflectors that would be used behind every diode. I am telling my customers to wait a year.
Or check out cold cathode or induction lighting


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## dougstove (Mar 16, 2012)

I use LED sources in the lab and progress is very fast on performance and price.
Regarding grow lights:  There is the potential for a high-efficiency grow light using LED because LED can be pulsed on and off rapidly.  Theoretically, and based upon experiments, you can drive maximal photosynthesis with a series of short pulses separated by dark periods, lowering overall electrical input for an LED that can be rapidly switched.
We do this in the lab for research purposes, but real-world performance is getting close.


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## nate379 (Mar 16, 2012)

I bought one for my front porch light and it was horrible.  I have a reg 40w bulb in there, CFLs didn't last very long (cold? auto on??).  The LED bulb was much too dim.  Perhaps as an accent light under kitchen cabinets it would be ok.
The rest of my house has either CFLs or T8 bulbs.  I installed them all about 3.5 years ago, so far have only had to replace one bulb.


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## begreen (Mar 16, 2012)

For equivalent lighting, it's important to match the lumens output if replacing with a CFL or LED.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2012)

These things are great  Iv got some big flashlights already that consume only 1 watt,and looking for a big campground light as there is no power there now. Been using them in the house when i find reasonable priced ones usually at sams club.


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## Highbeam (Mar 19, 2012)

Just this weekend I had to buy 90 watt halogen par38 bulbs for my new motion light on the barn. It killed me to be using incandescent technology but the CFLs take too long to warm up to even a low glow and the LEDs are super expensive. The 90 watt PAR38s were only 3.50$ each and are on a 5 minute on cycle.

If the tech was there, these new bulbs would have been LED.


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## begreen (Mar 19, 2012)

I hear you. There are nice LED commercial floods, but they are costly. For the brief time your spots are on, halogen is fine. 90 watt halogens put out a lot of light.


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## pybyr (Mar 20, 2012)

dougstove said:


> I use LED sources in the lab and progress is very fast on performance and price.
> Regarding grow lights: There is the potential for a high-efficiency grow light using LED because LED can be pulsed on and off rapidly. Theoretically, and based upon experiments, you can drive maximal photosynthesis with a series of short pulses separated by dark periods, lowering overall electrical input for an LED that can be rapidly switched.
> We do this in the lab for research purposes, but real-world performance is getting close.


 
Please tell me more about how this could be implemented [in terms that a technically interested nerdy layperson can understand and maybe DIY with]. I've long had an interest in trying to do some indoor growing (vegetables only) and even lucked into a big halide growlight that was being sold off by the gov't as surplus evidence following confiscation from someone who was growing something other than vegetables, but the realization of what lots of watts X lots of hours would do to my electric bill has always been a show-stopper.

PS, as long as it does not involve needing to play disco music for the plants to match the stroboscopic aesthetics!


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## Delta-T (Mar 20, 2012)

I wouldn't attempt to grow any serious vegetables with indoor lighting, that said, it is a great way to overcome short growing seasons or overlapping growing season into/out of winter. Plants (generally) know when to flower based on the number of dark hours they experience. Using LEDs or any light for that matter to break up the successive dark hours will trick the plants into continuing to "grow" rather than flower whenever the total dark hours would normally tell the plants to do so. A useful, if not necessary, tactic if you like to start plants early (like late winter) when dark hours are still greater than light hours. A lot of this really depends on the plants themselves. Some plants that originate in the equatorial areas can begin flowering when they have 8-10 hours of dark, where a lot of the plants that originate in the northern or southern extremes will require more dark hours (sometimes 14-16 hours) to know to flower. Beyond tricking the plants I don't think any bulb will ever really create enough photons to replace or come close to equaling the sun. People who choose to grow entirely under artificial lights do so because the y have few options, or are being sneaky.


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## dougstove (Apr 12, 2012)

" Beyond tricking the plants I don't think any bulb will ever really create enough photons to replace or come close to equaling the sun."

I have pulsed LED systems in my lab that deliver light 90X as bright as the sun, with only a low total power draw. 

pybyr:  There was research in the Netherlands ~10 years ago using pulsed red light in green houses, and related work continues.
There are two key issues:
i) Green plants absorb light across the visible light spectrum and can use it for photosynthesis.  Red photons, though, only carry ~1/2 as much energy as Blue photons, but green plants derive equivalent amounts of photosynthesis from red or blue photons;  the extra energy in the blue (or green or yellow) photons is lost, compared to the lower energy red photons.
      So a system that only delivers red photons can in principle deliver more photons per unit energy input, because the energy per photon is lower, But for photosynthesis the red photons are just as good as blue photons (in fact, for complicated reasons, red photons are even better than blue photons).

ii) Sunlight is continuous, but the photosynthetic system has a turnover time; once it has captured the energy of a photon, it takes about 1 ms to cycle back to a state ready to accept another photon.  During full sunlight most crops are light saturated, not using all the light they receive.  So, in principle, and in fact, a series of short light pulses spaced out by dark periods can drive over all photosynthesis as fast as continuous light.  With LED, pulsed systems are practical.

I have a set up in my lab that delivers 15 us long pulses of red light, separated by 50,000 us dark intervals;  a brief, bright flash every 50 ms.  So most of the time the sample is in the dark, doing its biochemistry.  Once it is ready, we deliver another flash.  For optimal production we would increase the flash rate to about 15 us delivered every 1000 us;  a flash every ms;  even then the sample is in the dark 98.5% of the time.

This is not science fiction, the LED we use are nothing very special.  The switching electronics are bit more sophisticated, but only because for research purposes we need tight control.
Now I better get back to work...


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## sesmith (Apr 12, 2012)

4 cree can light replacement inserts in my kitchen.  Work great and are dimmable.  Also don't act like an open chimney in the light as the units are solid.  Several strings of Chrismas tree lights.  Also worked good.  No individual bulbs out , for a change and only drew 24 watts for 3 or 4 strings.  LED bulbs on the mast and interior lamps in my sailboat.  Made a huge difference in battery life.


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