# Down-sizing



## jebatty (Oct 8, 2017)

So as not to hijack another thread ....



Nofossil said:


> I'm thinking about next home - kids are gone, don't need *quite* as much space. Probably do main house all on one level in case I get older, with guest rooms upstairs. Radiant slab for sure, also lots of heat storage. Probably do bidirectional heat pump for A/C and backup heat, maybe taking advantage of storage. Probably do small gasifier in boiler room attached to garage or shop.


 Really close in key respects to what we now have after the "thinking" back in 1990. The ground level of our 1500 sq ft walkout is our fully livable space: large living room (40 x 15), dining and kitchen area (25 x 16) in an open space "L" with the living room. Then a modest master bedroom, small guest bedroom, main bathroom with soaker tub and 2nd bathroom with shower, and a utility area with washer/dryer and a large closet for coats, boots, linens, etc. This level is heated by a small wood stove in the living room, with backup electric baseboard.

40% of the lower level 1500 sq ft walkout are two adjoining guest bedrooms, then a third bathroom with shower and the rest is fairly typical basement space with an area for additional sleeping space if needed. This level is heated with electric baseboard and a fan forced air electric wall heater, 6000 watts total. The space is only heated in the winter to maintain a 50F temperature, but the guest bedroom area is heated to a comfortable level only when occupied. 

Total annual electric heating bill would be around $300, but this is fully covered by our solar PV, which also fully covers all of our other electricity needs for our all electric house. In other words, since I c/s/s wood from our land for the wood stove, we have $0 utility bills. Water from our well and a septic system for the waste. Of course we pay for phone and internet service. 

We feel very comfortable having near minimal guest bedroom space along with a large entertaining space. Although a couple times each year the whole family is here (13 additional people) and bedroom space gets crowded, during the great bulk of the year all guest bedroom spaces are empty. We never felt the need to provide multiple separate bedroom spaces for everyone. Adult children and grandchildren pile up and make do, with some opting for a living room sofa if they wish. Our large living room, dining and kitchen area is very comfortable for guest entertaining, and easily handles groups much larger than our family group. 

A mini-split remains for the future, particularly because we have solar PV and we would not incur any cost in operating it, as we have excess kWh available, at least until a future electric car enters the picture. A mini-split neat source probably would reduce our need for stove wood to 2-3 cords per heating season vs the 4 cords now required. Both my wife and I really like the wood stove radiant in the living room which we have enjoyed for 27 years, along with the cool bedroom for sleeping.

As for down-sizing, we never up-sized. In fact one of our adult children bought a very modest house close to work and schools for their children, and they intend that to be their house for many years. Another of our adult children just sold their up-sized house and bought a modest home close to schools and closer to their work. In our thinking having a house which never needs to be down-sized is a very wise choice.


----------



## WoodyIsGoody (Oct 8, 2017)

jebatty said:


> In our thinking having a house which never needs to be down-sized is a very wise choice.



I agree, and I never understood the "American castle" phenomenon. I can only figure some people think the measure of a persons worth as a human is somehow related to the size of their home.

A couple of observations:

People who grew up in large families in small homes often overcompensate by acquiring a home that is far larger than necessary while those who came from small families living in huge homes are now adopting "tiny houses" en masse.

Go figure.


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Oct 8, 2017)

I consider it keeping up with the Jones'.  It's the 50" TV for those who are middle-middle class and up.

I really like the Dave Ramsey saying, "Where the paid off mortgage takes the place of the leased BMW.". Or something like that.

Being able to redirect that payment elsewhere really can change a balance sheet.


----------



## Highbeam (Oct 12, 2017)

EatenByLimestone said:


> It's the 50" TV for those who are middle-middle class and up.



Ha! that's a "starter" TV these days. I think they're up to 80" now and curved at regular stores like Costco.


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Oct 12, 2017)

I look at the 32" that my kid watches youtube on and think she's spoiled, lol.   A room must be huge to make use of a TV like that!


----------



## saewoody (Oct 12, 2017)

The biggest tv I ever bought was 32" and that was 14 years ago when I bought my house. It's one of those flat glass screen tube style tvs that weigh a ton.  I've got a 32" LCD in the bedroom my that my father bought us about 7-8 years ago for Christmas.  I did recently acquire a 40" LCD after my wife's 93 year old grandmother passed away. That got put in the living room.  I'd love a bigger tv,  but it's never been the priority. And I guess I'm just cheap.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## georgepds (Oct 12, 2017)

I watch all my tv on a 7 inch kindle


----------



## WoodyIsGoody (Oct 13, 2017)

georgepds said:


> I watch all my tv on a 7 inch kindle



I can one-up that, I watch all my TV on my smartwatch!


----------



## Circus (Oct 13, 2017)

jebatty said:


> our thinking having a house which never needs to be down-sized is a very wise choice.





WoodyIsGoody said:


> I watch all my TV on my smartwatch



With televisions falling in price, my last 60" hdtv cost less than $300 using 1/5 the electricity, I see small homes that look larger on the inside.

Total Recall


----------



## Highbeam (Oct 15, 2017)

Plus as our eyes get older, the large screens are much easier. Even my desktop computer screens are 30" !


----------



## RobbieB (Oct 15, 2017)

I like the cozyness of a small dwelling.  Now in 1400 sq-ft.  Before was 1200 and my first place was a 900 sq-ft townhouse with 450 sq-ft on each level


----------



## peakbagger (Oct 15, 2017)

"Nature abhors a vacuum" For most folks the more room to put it in the more stuff. At some point they run out of room and rent a storage unit.

The area I live in is not thriving but I swear there are more storage lockers than residents.


----------



## WoodyIsGoody (Oct 16, 2017)

peakbagger said:


> "Nature abhors a vacuum" For most folks the more room to put it in the more stuff. At some point they run out of room and rent a storage unit.
> 
> The area I live in is not thriving but I swear there are more storage lockers than residents.



Well, yeah, because, stuff. You need a place to put your stuff. It might not be the best stuff in the world, but it's YOUR stuff!


----------



## jebatty (Oct 16, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Well, yeah, because, stuff.


In August we had two weekends of a "stuff" sale, followed by a day of free stuff to anyone who wanted something. Lots, really lots, of "stuff" was recycled to other stuff collectors. Quite a quantity of small pieces of lumber remained, kept because still useful for something, and those now have been turned into stovewood for the wood gasification boiler in my shop.


----------



## Highbeam (Oct 17, 2017)

jebatty said:


> In August we had two weekends of a "stuff" sale, followed by a day of free stuff to anyone who wanted something. Lots, really lots, of "stuff" was recycled to other stuff collectors. Quite a quantity of small pieces of lumber remained, kept because still useful for something, and those now have been turned into stovewood for the wood gasification boiler in my shop.



My problem is scrap steel. I just know that I will have a use for it. Unlike with lumber I can attach pieces together if I need a longer chunk. I can't throw anything metal away as a result. Ugh.


----------



## begreen (Oct 17, 2017)

This book might be a good one to read:
https://scribepublications.com.au/books-authors/books/the-gentle-art-of-swedish-death-cleaning

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/home/americans-are-pack-rats-swedes-have-the-solution-death-cleaning/2017/10/12/248dcf82-aebe-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html


----------



## georgepds (Oct 18, 2017)

Cleaned out a condo used for work a year or two ago. Decided to toss all the books and stuff I hadn't touched for years..  used the services of trash can willy(I'm not making that up)

Turned out trash can willy employed frustrated scholars. It was agony watching them paw through books I loved... while I tried to let them go


Books I still miss.. a side by side English/Italian copy of the inferno,the Ashley book of knots, and my old collection of trashy face d'ange detective series that I learned bad french from ( e.g. "tais toi ou je cache ta geulle... "roughly shut up or I'll smash your face)


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Oct 19, 2017)

begreen said:


> This book might be a good one to read:
> https://scribepublications.com.au/books-authors/books/the-gentle-art-of-swedish-death-cleaning
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/home/americans-are-pack-rats-swedes-have-the-solution-death-cleaning/2017/10/12/248dcf82-aebe-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html




After reading the book, are you supposed to throw it out or keep it?


----------



## begreen (Oct 19, 2017)

Check it out from the library


----------



## georgepds (Oct 20, 2017)

Love my local library.. they subscribe to both Nature andScience

But they are vicious when it comes to throwing out books. Went to check their Orwell stash and all the had was 1984 and animal farm.. no Burmese essays, or homage to Catalonia or Down and out in Paris and London....

Makes me want to re kindle my own stash


----------



## begreen (Oct 20, 2017)

Love ours too. We are blessed that the county library system is a network, so we draw on a lot of resources through their sharing network. The provides much greater volume and diversity than our local library could support. Fortunately there are some wealthy cities and towns in the network that get lots of good books and movies.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 20, 2017)

Books are my biggest nemesis. I love books, read all the time. Much prefer reading to TV. Hoarding lots of books; history, biography, novels, technical books.
I'm now planning to move into my retirement home next year, a 1,500 mile move into a smaller house.

I'm in the process of throwing away seemingly tons of accumulated stuff..... But my beloved books! I cannot let go! If I keep them, they will add cost  to the move and occupy precious space in a smaller house. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Oct 28, 2017)

A guys idea of downsizing may be different then the wifes.  For me 1200 SF and a 4 car garage plus workshop and green house. Wife wants to stay where we are.  3000Sf house.


----------



## peakbagger (Nov 2, 2017)

I am already seeing a lot of "mini castles" in the suburbs becoming undervalued. The market is pretty hot but many younger folks dont want the 2 or 3 acre lot with the long driveway, big lawn and a 3 or 5 thousand square foot multi bedroom home. The older folks are downsizing and that leaves a lot of inventory with fewer buyers. Not a good place to be in for a seller. I have run into many folks who are upside down on homes like this.

Various investment advisors treat a home as potential retirement equity, it can be, but its not a liquid investment if you need to live in it. If various tax proposals get approved, the deductions for home mortgage interest, local and state property taxes go away and the high potential deficit could mean higher interest rates in the future along with high interest rates which impacts the price a future buyer can afford.

Despite the ads on TV claims, reverse mortgages are based on what the home may be worth in the future and the lender is going to be real conservative. In the mean time they figure that some percentage of the folks signing these will default at some point earlier in the contract due to health or financial issues. There are clauses in the contracts that require the home to be maintained in good condition and many folks who need reverse mortgages cant come up with the cash to replace a roof or a heating system. If they don't, the mortgage firm can and will go after them and end up with the home early and the former owner out on the street.

For me, if my parents genetics carry on to me, I am potentially around for quite a few more years and dont plan to be working all of them so I do keep stuff around for future projects. I do sort the "stuff" I keep around and painfully haul stuff to the dump that has low likely hood of future reuse. I had to clean out their home and sell it when they moved into assisted living and even though they had been prepping for quite few years for the move it still was a major hassle. Its not a big family so I couldn't pawn much of it off. My moms now in a long term nursing facility with many medicaid folks and ultimately it comes down to that the residents have a small 3 drawer dresser and a 3 foot wide closet to hold any of their possessions.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Nov 2, 2017)

If downsizing means giving up the cabin in the woods ,im out. Its  necessary for my sanity ,so ,medical reasons.


----------



## georgepds (Nov 2, 2017)

The cabin in the woods is downsizing...  just move into it full time.. and leave the other stuff behind


----------

