# 2 New BIG Hybrid CAT stoves



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 6, 2014)

I did a fast search to see if anything on these new stoves has been discussed here yet, but nothing came up so ......

I stopped by my local wood stove dealer early Sept and noticed a NEW MONSTER CAT _hybrid_ stove (eco boost they call it), in the show room I hadn't seen before.

Very nice looking BIG CAT stoves that claim super long burn times similar to Blaze King, but this offering has *an air tube + the cat* (eco-boost), so it looks to be using 2 methods to create strong secondary burn.

While I am very tempted by claims of 30+ hours burn time (my Summit gets 10 hours overnight max burn/glow time with hardwood), has anyone bought one of these yet, and if so, how is it performing?

The largest offering looked *HUGE* (4.42 cu.ft. capacity) along side a PE Summit in the showroom (My PE Summit has 3 cu.ft capacity and used to look big).  These new  stoves seem to be aimed to give Blaze King a run for the money.

*2 New CAT/Hybrid Stoves:*

6" flue - F3500
http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F3500.aspx

8" flue - F5100- Firebox Capacity4.42 cu. ft.
http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F5100.aspx

I am really tempted, but like other CAT stoves, these are pricey (appx $3500 for the big one) and I'm not sure if they would suck as well as my forgiving PE Summit, on my 6x10 tile chimney.

6 year warranty on the Catalytic Converter - not sure the cost on replacement.

Anyone taken the plunge yet and/or have some feedback?


----------



## bholler (Sep 6, 2014)

Never burnt one but installing a 5100 next week.


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 6, 2014)

Been talking about the F5100 for close to a year here.


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Been talking about the F5100 for close to a year here.



so much for my searching skills - lol

and the verdict is?


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 6, 2014)

I notice the 5100 doesn't have a thermostat like the Blaze King.


----------



## bholler (Sep 6, 2014)

No BK to my knowledge is the only one that does.  The consensus is that is it a god stove that puts out lots of heat but doesn't get the advertized burn times.  No idea on durability of the cat yet.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 6, 2014)

It doesn't get the advertised burn times. And from what I see, there is a fatal flaw in the design and placement of the catalyst. There's more than a thermostat that sets Blaze King apart from the rest. Easily gets advertised burn times, thermostat air control, proven cat design, and an unconditional 10 year warranty on the cat. I can't see any reason to choose the Regency over a Blaze King.

I didn't see any real benefit to the hybrid, sure its a little cleaner burning than an already clean burn burning stove. But its nothing the general consumer would ever notice. This comes at an additional cost, both the purchase price and the cost of parts that fail prematurely.


----------



## bholler (Sep 6, 2014)

I dont see a fatal flaw with the cat placement and i think bk is probably a better stove but they are just not in our area at all.  We have a little over 3000 customers and have never seen one here.  And it does more than just clean it up you get heat off that cat to.  I think it is a good stove just probably not as good as a bk


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 6, 2014)

New good looking CAT stove, BIG firebox, secondary burn air tube AND cat, *but no thermostat*! 
I sure like the idea of a thermostat - seems odd they wouldn't have added that in.  

I'll have to dig into Cat spec on each and see what the comparative CAT longevity looks like.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 6, 2014)

bholler said:


> I dont see a fatal flaw with the cat placement and i think bk is probably a better stove but they are just not in our area at all.  We have a little over 3000 customers and have never seen one here.  And it does more than just clean it up you get heat off that cat to.  I think it is a good stove just probably not as good as a bk


I am saying that the cat is a good thing! When the two are combined a lot of issues arise. I don't think it has been thought out well enough. At least they aren't in the Cape Cod. The regency has some similar issues laying in wait.


----------



## bholler (Sep 6, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> I am saying that the cat is a good thing! When the two are combined a lot of issues arise. I don't think it has been thought out well enough. At least they aren't in the Cape Cod. The regency has some similar issues laying in wait.



I am curious what are the issues?  Really curious not being critical or anything.


----------



## aansorge (Sep 6, 2014)

Probably will heat like a MOFO but seems to lack the long burn times of the blaze king.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 6, 2014)

bholler said:


> I am curious what are the issues?  Really curious not being critical or anything.


2 issues that I see just by looking at it. The flame shield is bolted in. This proved to cause trouble in the past. It takes tools just inspect and clean the cat, most often the bolts won't come out without breaking or its warped so bad it can't be put back in easily.

The other issue is the bypass operation. It opens the opposite way a BK does. This allows flames to blow right into the back of the catalyst. Not only allows it, but directs them right onto the cat. This will shorten the life if the cat. The Blaze King bypass opens toward the cat, protecting it from the flames.

The cape cod doesn't have a flame shield at all and the back of the cat is hanging out into the bypass opening. This thing doesn't have much of a chance at all. The secondary flames also rip right into the cat on the cod, a flame shield would help it a lot. It sure has a pretty fire though!


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 6, 2014)

He's a picture of mine, it shows the secondary flames pouring into the cat.


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 6, 2014)

The jury is defiantly out on all of the hybrids. Not enough time in real world burning for any of them for us to know how the technology is gonna stand up and work out.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> The jury is defiantly out on all of the hybrids. Not enough time in real world burning for any of them for us to know how the technology is gonna stand up and work out.


I know Blaze King made a few thousand of them in the early 80's, they abandoned the design in a very short time.


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 6, 2014)

Manufacturer's can try to fix bad burning habits with design all hey want. Nothing is gonna fix stupid burning habits. My stove is just a big steel box with some tubes in the top of it that has already busted the most stringent emissions number they can come up with without outlawing wood stoves period.

My sig says it all.


----------



## Charles1981 (Sep 7, 2014)

Sure does look good on paper. Don't know if I want to take a  3500$ plunge however yet.


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

Regency only used one tube and a deflector plat but i have yet to see one burning so i cant say for sure but i don't think the cat will get direct flames on it.  But again without seeing one burn i cant say for sure yet


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> Regency only used one tube and a deflector plat but i have yet to see one burning so i cant say for sure but i don't think the cat will get direct flames on it.  But again without seeing one burn i cant say for sure yet


I think they have it covered on the front side, but neglected to protect it from behind.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> I am saying that the cat is a good thing! When the two are combined a lot of issues arise. I don't think it has been thought out well enough. At least they aren't in the Cape Cod. The regency has some similar issues laying in wait.


No problems with the Woodstock Hybrid stoves.........


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> I know Blaze King made a few thousand of them in the early 80's, they abandoned the design in a very short time.


perhaps they should have talked to Woodstock


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

What do you mean from behind?


----------



## hwdemers (Sep 7, 2014)

We have installed a few 5100s and getting reports back of 27 hour burn time.


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> What do you mean from behind?



This is the bypass open on my King. The bypass covers the cat from any possible direct flame contact. Picture the bypass pivoting on the opposite side of the opening, directing flame onto the back side of the cat. At least I think that's what webby is saying.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

That's exactly right.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

Tenn Dave said:


> perhaps they should have talked to Woodstock


The 2 companies actually work together pretty closely to develop durable stoves. They also share unparalleled customer service! Something they've learned from one another I would guess.


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 7, 2014)

I thought a visual aid might help 

That is quite an opening to let creosote fall in behind the cat when sweeping.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

jeff_t said:


> I thought a visual aid might help
> 
> That is quite an opening to let creosote fall in behind the cat when sweeping.


Ya, just pull the pipe up and sweep it out. Hope I don't get accused of being a crook for suggesting that.


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 7, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> Ya, just pull the pipe up and sweep it out. Hope I don't get accused of being a crook for suggesting that.




I'm pretty sure there isn't quite as much space for stuff to get thru there with the 6" opening of the smaller stove. I was trying to make that point before it got stupid.


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 7, 2014)

hwdemers said:


> We have installed a few 5100s and getting reports back of 27 hour burn time.



That's pretty cool. If that's enough for your home and weather conditions, better yet.


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

I just looked at their design again their bypass blocks the back of the cat when opened.  But again i have yet to see one working in person glad to hear some are getting close to claimed burn times


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> I just looked at their design again their bypass blocks the back of the cat when opened.  But again i have yet to see one working in person glad to hear some are getting close to claimed burn times


Does it? Maybe they made a change? 
Now, get that air tube outa there and they might onto something!


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

Yeah i don't know but the design looks pretty well thought out i guess we will see.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> Yeah i don't know but the design looks pretty well thought out i guess we will see.


It does look pretty good, and I'm a big regency fan. They make great stuff. So does Travis Industries, and their Cape Cod let me down big time! I'm just not willing to spend big bucks on something that's a totally new design. They blamed me for the issues, rather owning it. That's a lot of my issue with them I guess.
The regency design looks very similar to a Princess, with a few mods. It should do ok if the cat holds up.


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 7, 2014)

good discussion ...

when I was in the store, if memory serves, it looked to me like the Regency bypass did flip up and open, blocking the back of the Cat with the bypass flap.
I'm all ears on how this stove is performing ongoing.

*Another question:*

I have a fully tile lined 28' tall brick chimney in the centre of my 2 story ground level entry home - chimney is in great shape - European mason custom built it.  My PE Summit throws enough heat into the large brick chimney from its ground level location, to provide AWESOME passive heat storage in the chimney, that keeps the whole house toasty warm all night on both floors.  I show very little creosote buildup at yearly cleaning so things are working well with my well seasoned wood ...  but I want longer burns that CAT stoves provide.
.
The Summit works well with my chimney even though another EPA stove (Drolet Baltic) was *not *able to compensate for my slightly oversize flue @ 6"x10".  I do get an occasional unpleasant _backpuff_ with the Summit when re-loading if the chimney is cold, an inversion is in place, or I'm not attentive and careful re-loading.

Cat stoves are notorious for putting less heat into the chimney and I'm wondering how this Regency CAT stove, or a BKing for that matter, would fare on my setup?
Also my chimney has a 6" thimble going into my brick chimney, so I would use 8" pipe from stove to thimble, but then have to reduce to 6" at the thimble, and then go into the 28' of larger 6x10" ceramic main chimney.

Any thoughts, ideas hunches, on how the CAT stoves with less heat up the chimney would fare on my setup?  I can squeeze 8 to 10 hours burn/glow time out of my Summit with ideal conditions and great hardwood, but I sure would like to even double that.


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 7, 2014)

That's about the most inefficient shape of flue you could have and still be clay lined. Combine that with a reduction at the thimble, I would expect you might have trouble with any 8" stove, cat or not. But, with 28' you might not have any trouble at all. There's only one way to find out! 
I like new stuff as much as the next guy, but weigh the risks. The BK is a proven design and will out burn that 5100. I got burned on that Cape Cod, I just don't want someone else to have the same bad experience I had. It didn't even last a whole year!


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 7, 2014)

My thoughts are that the BK will work with your chimney, but you won't see the low end, low burn performance that you could. I think you will need to run a higher than normal thermostat setting to compensate for the less than ideal chimney setup. But I could be wrong.

From what I've read about the Recency, 6" chimneys are bad because of overdraft possibilities.

I feel like webby. There are bazillions of happy Blaze King owners......


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

Beware of biased opinions and outright 'cheerleaders' for certain brands.  If you are considering one of these new stoves, try and find someone with real world operating experience.


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 7, 2014)

You talking about "cheerleaders"?


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> You talking about "cheerleaders"?


And you         hahahahahahahaha


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 7, 2014)

Offer has been out there for three years. $100 to anybody that can produce the post where I recommended buying the stove that I have.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Offer has been out there for three years. $100 to anybody that can produce the post where I recommended buying the stove that I have.





BrotherBart said:


> Offer has been out there for three years. $100 to anybody that can produce the post where I recommended buying the stove that I have.


I will say it again -  If you are considering one of these new stoves, try and find someone with real world operating experience.


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

Hey ill recommend the stove i have i love it but its 40 years old lol.  Seriously i like regency stuff and i sell them but there are allot of other stoves out there many are good as well some are probably better.as far as the 5100 goes i cant give much of a recommendation yet.  I agree with tenn dave i just don't have experience with them yet and not many do


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> Hey ill recommend the stove i have i love it but its 40 years old lol.  Seriously i like regency stuff and i sell them but there are allot of other stoves out there many are good as well some are probably better.as far as the 5100 goes i cant give much of a recommendation yet.  I agree with tenn dave i just don't have experience with them yet and not many do


bholler, you make a good point.  Perhaps we need to wait a bit before passing judgment.  However I will say that hybrid technology has been out a while and it does work.


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

I don't doubt it is a good stove i just personally don't have the experience to give recommendations.  And the design looks good to me but again without seeing them out there and burning i cant say more than i don't see any flaws.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 7, 2014)

bholler said:


> I don't doubt it is a good stove i just personally don't have the experience to give recommendations.  And the design looks good to me but again without seeing them out there and burning i cant say more than i don't see any flaws.


Your comment is fair and open minded.  Only time will tell about the performance of this new stove.


----------



## bholler (Sep 7, 2014)

exactly i would never tell anyone not to get it but i will tell them it is new and not allot of feedback yet


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 8, 2014)

Why shouldn't someone recommend a product they are happy with? I would recommend a Blaze King to anyone, as it is a quality product that works as advertised, sometimes better.

My opinions are biased, towards stuff I have experience with. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't keep it. I can't recommend anything I've never used before.


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 8, 2014)

I appreciate all the comments and am all ears if anyone has a BKing or 5100 or other large CAT stove running on *non* SS  chimney.

My chimney contains a Tile Flue 6"x10" / 6 inch thimble @ 28' high, surrounded by brick (2'x5') located in the center of house.

Thermal mass retains and radiates heat for hours - love it!

Thanks


----------



## bholler (Sep 8, 2014)

The crock could probably be enlarged to 8" that would help but it is hard to say how well they will work i would bet that they will be ok.  I am sure they would work better with a properly sized ss liner but only one way to tell.  You should have the chimney thoroughly inspected though   It is very possible you have cracked tiles if you have been burning for years in it.


----------



## MovingOffGrid (Sep 8, 2014)

bholler said:


> The crock could probably be enlarged to 8" that would help but it is hard to say how well they will work i would bet that they will be ok.  I am sure they would work better with a properly sized ss liner but only one way to tell.  You should have the chimney thoroughly inspected though   It is very possible you have cracked tiles if you have been burning for years in it.



Ya I was thinking I might be able to find a mason that could enlarge the thimble.

No visible cracks on liner.  26 years and counting.  I think having a chimney in the center of a home makes for less expansion and contraction and no freezing in all but the top 4 to 5 feet.


----------



## moparharn (Sep 8, 2014)

My Woodstock Fireview burned for 27 years with a cat and heated my 2642 sq. ft. house quite well. I replaced it this year with a new Woodstock Progress Hybrid.  I wanted a long burn time stove that offered efficiency, esthetics, and that wonderful soapstone heat.  I seriously considered the Blaze King, but in the end I was unwilling to give up the feel of soapstone.  I really like the BK thermo control, long burn time, and proven cat system.  How can the jury still be out on cat stoves?  My fire view was a freaking powerhouse with the cat engaged, in fact it was throttling it back that was my biggest challenge.  Really looking forward to using the new PH.








MovingOffGrid said:


> Ya I was thinking I might be able to find a mason that could enlarge the thimble.
> 
> No visible cracks on liner.  26 years and counting.  I think having a chimney in the center of a home makes for less expansion and contraction and no freezing in all but the top 4 to 5 feet.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 8, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> Ya, just pull the pipe up and sweep it out. Hope I don't get accused of being a crook for suggesting that.


 
You guys.... taken out of context. Pulling that pipe will provide excellent cleaning access, no doubt about it.


----------



## bjkjoseph (Sep 8, 2014)

They also put out a new hybrid insert hampton hi400.


----------



## derbydude (Sep 10, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> That's about the most inefficient shape of flue you could have and still be clay lined. Combine that with a reduction at the thimble, I would expect you might have trouble with any 8" stove, cat or not. But, with 28' you might not have any trouble at all. There's only one way to find out!
> I like new stuff as much as the next guy, but weigh the risks. The BK is a proven design and will out burn that 5100. I got burned on that Cape Cod, I just don't want someone else to have the same bad experience I had. It didn't even last a whole year!


BK will outburn the 5100i? BK is a much smaller unit - its BTU output is barely 40,000 compared to 60,000 for 5100i.
I doubt BK will work well for spaces bigger than 1200sft


----------



## bholler (Sep 10, 2014)

derbydude said:


> BK will outburn the 5100i? BK is a much smaller unit - its BTU output is barely 40,000 compared to 60,000 for 5100i.
> I doubt BK will work well for spaces bigger than 1200sft



I dont know what bk you are looking at but the king would be the comparable bk to the 5100.  They have very similar fire box sizes and similar btu output.  I like regencies and am looking forward to seeing how the 5100 preforms but your statements about bk's is wrong


----------



## jeff_t (Sep 10, 2014)

derbydude said:


> BK will outburn the 5100i? BK is a much smaller unit - its BTU output is barely 40,000 compared to 60,000 for 5100i.
> I doubt BK will work well for spaces bigger than 1200sft


----------



## webby3650 (Sep 10, 2014)

derbydude said:


> BK will outburn the 5100i? BK is a much smaller unit - its BTU output is barely 40,000 compared to 60,000 for 5100i.
> I doubt BK will work well for spaces bigger than 1200sft


You are way off! You can't base a decision on which stove top pick by comparing BTU's. They are all over place, usually WAY exaggerated! I'm heating 2200 square feet with a mid sized BK.


----------



## smokedragon (Sep 10, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> The jury is defiantly out on all of the hybrids. Not enough time in real world burning for any of them for us to know how the technology is gonna stand up and work out.


I will let you all know when I get my hybrid up and running this winter.  Stove will be here late next week, I can't wait.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 10, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> The jury is defiantly out on all of the hybrids. Not enough time in real world burning for any of them for us to know how the technology is gonna stand up and work out.


Totally wrong....Progress Hybrid is a proven stove.  You need to catch up.


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 10, 2014)

Not yet is isn't. Boring subject.

Keep us posted.


----------



## Tenn Dave (Sep 10, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Not yet is isn't. Boring subject.
> 
> Keep us posted.


it's hard to teach an old bored dog new tricks


----------



## PeterT (Mar 9, 2015)

G'day Gents,

It's been a little while since I have ventured onto Hearth.com and so I apologize for chiming in a little late here. However, this thread seems to have been left a little unresolved and so I am not sure where any of you are with respect to the Regency F 5100 / 3500, but for your convenience and reading pleasure, here is a previous thread started by JJD, who does have real world experience with a Regency F5100

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/regency-5100-the-first-few-months.104350/page-3#post-1853706

At the outset, I would caution anybody trying to run the F5100 on anything other than an 8" flue. As you will read, JJD has some initial problems of overdrawing which reduced his burn times considerably.  Scrolling to the end and after accepting some advice from those from the forum, he rectified the situation marginally with some chimney retrofits.  However, as you might come to appreciate, he might still not be obtaining the full design benefit of the unit. It would certainly be interesting to learn of his most recent experiences considering your last (North American) blistering winter.

Also, and upon reading some of the posts above, one other thing members might need to think about is the overall household system configuration of your stove and flue and how your house actually uses the system in its totality.  To explain, one such consideration is a central chimney configuration and the efficiency of the stove itself.  If one stove is more efficient than another for comparison purposes, then this generally means that the more efficient stove will deliver more heat into the surrounding room than the stack itself.  Therefore, if your overall household system design (including the flue/chimney) is designed to heat the upper level of the house via the flue/chimney then a more efficient stove as measured by a test alone might not be most suitable solution for your specific requirements. Unfortunately, I am not aware if there is any way to adequately quantify the real differences based upon efficiency measurements alone.  Therefore, and as others have hinted at above, one faced with this circumstance may be better off searching for others with a similar "system" configuration so as to better gauge the benefits or not of any particular stove.  

I hope this helps

Peter T

PS  For those who have followed some of my previous posts, well I still haven't grasped the nettle yet on what stove I will install.  I was really keen on the F5100 (F5102 here in OZ) but the price was prohibitive at the time I inquired and I suspect it will be more so now given that the $A has dropped in value considerably (as compared to the USD) in recent times.  The F3500 is just being released here also, so I would be keen to learn of any real world experiences with this stove also if they exist.  BK is not available in OZ for comparison.


----------

