# Drolet Tundra Problems



## travwise (Apr 20, 2015)

Hello,

Recently had a Drolet Tundra installed. Before I go further let me state that I am new to wood burning, apologies for any of these questions if they seem stupid.

Fired it for the first time yesterday. It is currently hooked up to a thermostat upstairs. Not long after the air inlet damper closed the fire went down to only red embers (no flame) and the whole unit cooled substantially. I could put my had on the black chimney pipe coming directly out of the stove. Smoke was billowing out of the chimney on the roof. A few hours later the glass was covered in soot, and what appeared to be creosote was dripping out the back at one of the seams on the stove pipe.

I called the guy who installed it. He said it's burning WAY to cool and that with the stove going to stove pipe should be around 400 degrees. I asked why would be burning so cool, and said he had no idea.

The stove was loaded with well seasoned black ash. So I don't think it was a moisture content issue.

I've attached some photos of the install job.

Any ideas on what may be causing this "cool" burning?


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## begreen (Apr 20, 2015)

The wood is the first suspect. It may not be fully seasoned. To test you will need to resplit some splits, then check moisture content on the freshly exposed face of wood. With the split at about room temperature, press the pins of the moisture meter firmly into the fresh wood. Or lacking a meter, hold the freshly exposed wood up against your cheek. If it feels cool and damp the wood is not fully seasoned.

The other possibility is that it is too warm outside. Wood furnaces are not the best for mild weather heating. Maybe try a smaller load of wood and set the thermostat to a higher room temp so that the furnace air inlet stays open much longer?


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## travwise (Apr 20, 2015)

Ok sure, I wondered about that.

I was under the impression this unit burned all day with the air inlet damper closed...or closed most of the time. I'll buy a moisture meter and check the wood. Thanks.


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## maple1 (Apr 20, 2015)

You should have your chimney draft checked too - warm temps can kill that as mentioned above, but they could be off to start with depending on your chimn situation.  A manometer is another very useful tool to have, not that expensive & you can use it to tune your chimney draft & ductwork pressures. Dwyer Mark II Model 25 is a popular one. I have one permanently mounted to my smoke pipe. Or if your installer guy is close, he could check it when you're burning, if he has one. But for the cost of one it's nice to have anyway.


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## laynes69 (Apr 20, 2015)

Just like a stove,  the furnace must come up to temperate before the damper closes. If it's mild out and there's little heating demand, small splits work best that are stacked a little loose. Otherwise in cold weather where the heating demand is higher, larger splits will work better. The firebox is a decent sized one, so you'll need enough fuel to maintain a hot fire.


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## STIHLY DAN (Apr 20, 2015)

I thought a full plenum on a Tundra was a no no. Had to use to specific outlets, a static pressure thing.


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## travwise (Apr 20, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I thought a full plenum on a Tundra was a no no. Had to use to specific outlets, a static pressure thing.



Underneath the plenum only two outlets are open. Is this still a concern? Can you explain static pressure?


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

I have a Yukon Eagle Polar 2 furnace.  I had the same exact problem is you.  First that that made the largest difference was adding replacement air.  It's essentially a way to let fresh air into the basement.  Like a reverse dryer vent.  I'm telling you, this fixed 80% of my problem.  I had creosote running down my barometric damper that would then seal it shut.  It was running down and out the seams like honey.  Second thing I did was adjust my fan limit switch so the furnace wouldnt blow heat until it reached a higher temp.  Third thing I did was use smaller pieces of wood more frequently.  Fourth thing I did was get a manometer to measure and set the barometric damper.  After doing all these things, I had 10% of the creosote that I had before.  Good luck!


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

From what Yukon told me, when you have a big fire going, it's using up the oxygen in the basement.  When there isn't much left down there, you don't get a complete burn in the fire and smoke, creating more creosote.  Just adding the replacement air made a big difference.  The problem is your damper is closed, choking down the fire.  When the fire smolders, it doesn't burn completely, thus making more creosote.  More moisture also makes more creosote.  Open up some windows to keep the temp down near the thermostat to keep the damper open


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## travwise (Apr 20, 2015)

cachunko said:


> I have a Yukon Eagle Polar 2 furnace.  I had the same exact problem is you.  First that that made the largest difference was adding replacement air.  It's essentially a way to let fresh air into the basement.  Like a reverse dryer vent.  I'm telling you, this fixed 80% of my problem.  I had creosote running down my barometric damper that would then seal it shut.  It was running down and out the seams like honey.  Second thing I did was adjust my fan limit switch so the furnace wouldnt blow heat until it reached a higher temp.  Third thing I did was use smaller pieces of wood more frequently.  Fourth thing I did was get a manometer to measure and set the barometric damper.  After doing all these things, I had 10% of the creosote that I had before.  Good luck!



Hey thanks buddy! What does your replacement air system look like? Is it just piped into the furnace room?


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

This is a pic from my manual regarding replacement air.


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

i used 4 inch pvc.


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

This was the smoke pipe from my furnace before I made these changes.  It was almost 100% plugged after about 3-4 months of use.  I just cleaned my furnace pipe and chimney a week or two ago and there was only just a small amount this time.  Made a very big difference - all of the things I did.


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

When it's really windy out, it's incredible how much air the furnace pulls in from outside.  You could literally blow dry your hair with how much air comes in.  The purpose of the "J" trap on the bottom is to prevent air from just flowing in all of the time.  It's supposed to only come in the basement as the furnace needs it.


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## travwise (Apr 20, 2015)

Well I changed my chimney pipe around, removed an unnessary 90 degree elbow, have a raging fire going, with air inlet damper open, and cannot get flue temp to rise above 100 degrees???


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

I'm not familiar with that furnace so I can't be much help. You want that thermostat close to the stove, before the damper. Aside from that, I'd guess its an air flow problem. Maybe the thermostat damper isn't opening right?


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## cachunko (Apr 20, 2015)

I can open my ash pan door and let more o2 in that way and watch my flue temps rise. Can you do that?  To see if its an air issue


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## STIHLY DAN (Apr 20, 2015)

How long has this raging fire bee going for? It will take awhile at cold start, also you should only be seeing 250-300* when ripen.


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## DoubleB (Apr 20, 2015)

travwise said:


> I was under the impression this unit burned all day with the air inlet damper closed...or closed most of the time.



You're right, you should be able to achieve that from the furnace.  

I agree with all the possibilities from the folks above.  Based on my experience I'll reiterate a few:
-Draft is key, in part because it's very important to have the right draft, but very hard to know without a manometer.  This might solve everything right there.
-The manual says you can close the damper once the firebox is full of flames.  In my experience, that doesn't matter much.  What matters for mine is whether the furnace and wood have reached cruising altitude (temperature), which can take 30 minutes or more from a cold start with the damper open for my furnace.  (Or can be only 10 minutes if adding more wood to a lot of coals).
-I thought I had dry wood, but turns out not all of it was so dry.  My moisture meter also thinks my wood is dryer than it is.  You might have the same ailment without realizing it.

Another thought I don't think anyone mentioned is that I believe that firebrick absorbs moisture.  The first time I burned a fire I had lots of steam pouring out my chimney, but maybe it was all from the wood and I was just imagining things?  Anyways, if you have much moisture in your firebrick, that would probably put out your initial fire with the damper closed until you get the furnace hot for a while.  I might be out to lunch on this one, though, so hopefully someone will correct me.


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## laynes69 (Apr 20, 2015)

Your not going to see 400° on the outside of the exhaust. You might see 300° with an open damper with a large load, but usually 250° or so with a high fire and 150° to 200° external when in cruizing mode. What size and type is your chimney, and what's the height?


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## brenndatomu (Apr 20, 2015)

1. What has the temp been where you are? That can affect draft _big time. _External chimney? How tall? 6" flue?
2. How old is the wood you are burning? Also, what species? It _really_ sounds like you have wet wood. Add some kiln dried lumber to your next load, cut up old pallets, lumber cut-offs, eco bricks or the like. That will help you get a good, hot fire going when you have wet wood.
3. Get that manometer, you _really_ need to know what your draft is! They can be had for $20-$30 on ebay. Check the draft before you worry about a fresh air intake, that will tell you what you need to know. You could crack a window to test this theory if you want. The chimney makes the furnace work. No draft, no heat, too much draft, no heat.
4. My new stove took quite a few fires before the firebrick dried out and the thing really started to burn correctly.
5 Moisture meters are not always accurate, gets you a ballpark idea though.
6.Those external magnetic thermometers are notoriously inaccurate.
7.If the fire goes out with the damper closed, either you let it close to soon (wood not hot enough) or the wood is wet, or both.

If you have poor draft, wet wood, _and_ wet firebrick all at the same time, well, that will just make ya mad enough to spit nails!


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## maple1 (Apr 21, 2015)

+1 on inaccurate magnetic thermometers.

I have one right beside my probe. When I'm burning, the magnetic reads a full 100c less than the probe.


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## travwise (Apr 21, 2015)

First of all, thank you guys so much for all the advice. Very informative and much appreciated.

Manometer and moisture gauge are on order. 

To answer other questions the furnace is installed in the basement in the center of my house. It's a one story home. It's masonry chimney with square clay flue. I'll measure tonight, guessing 7"x7".  It's been about 30 degrees, and very windy. 

Side note, I've contacted SBI they recommended installing a 6" stainless liner. Not sure if I could even get an insulated liner to fit without removing the clay flue. I'm willing to do this but worried about dropping another $1000 if this isn't the issue.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 21, 2015)

travwise said:


> Side note, I've contacted SBI they recommended installing a 6" stainless liner. Not sure if I could even get an insulated liner to fit without removing the clay flue. I'm willing to do this but worried about dropping another $1000 if this isn't the issue.


I'd wait to get a draft reading before making any liner decisions. If your chimney runs through the interior of your house, then you very well may be fine with a un-insulated liner, much cheaper. How tall is the chimney?
Just a thought, I really don't think this is your issue, but it may be a contributing factor. Check to make sure the baffle that sits on top of the secondary air tubes at the top of the firebox is sitting directly on the tubes, flat, and slid clear to the back. It would not work nearly as well if the baffle is out of place.


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## plips_2002 (Jan 30, 2017)

I just installed a Tundra in my home and I'm having the same problem. Black liquid coming out of the elbow that slopes upward towards my chimney. The chimney is about 25 foot tall and has 9x9 clay tile inside. It does not yet have a liner and I haven't installed my barometric damper yet but will be soon. The wood is good and thought I had enough makeup air but might add more. I let the fire get rolling before closing the damper and I do notice the flue pipe temps drop enough that I can put my hand on it. Should I just leave the damper open? Was going to hook it up to a t-stat tonight but I might wait until I get the damper. We have a stack of Dwyer Mark 2 type 25's at work, I'll snag one and get some hard line and install it, should it go before the barometric damper? Thanks all.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 30, 2017)

plips_2002 said:


> I just installed a Tundra in my home and I'm having the same problem. Black liquid coming out of the elbow that slopes upward towards my chimney. The chimney is about 25 foot tall and has 9x9 clay tile inside. It does not yet have a liner and I haven't installed my barometric damper yet but will be soon. The wood is good and thought I had enough makeup air but might add more. I let the fire get rolling before closing the damper and I do notice the flue pipe temps drop enough that I can put my hand on it. Should I just leave the damper open? Was going to hook it up to a t-stat tonight but I might wait until I get the damper. We have a stack of Dwyer Mark 2 type 25's at work, I'll snag one and get some hard line and install it, should it go before the barometric damper? Thanks all.


Hi plips.
First of all, how many fires have you had in it...it can take a couple good fires to dry out the firebrick it seems.
Second, how dry is the wood...that's always the number one suspect.
Third, you need some type of thermometer to get a flue temp reading...you may not be getting things hot enough before the damper shuts.
Forth, a 9x9 clay tile chimney has a very low chance of working out for you IMO. The cross section area of that chimney is 63.5 sq. inches, Drolet calls for just over 28...so you are over double. These things just don't waste enough heat up the flue to keep that much area warm enough to work. Plus a square flue doesn't flow as well as a round one. The good news is 9 x 9 is a good size to be able to drop an insulated liner in.
And yes, the draft sample needs to be taken between the baro and the stove


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## plips_2002 (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks for your reply, I bought this unit in Nov and hooked it up in my shop to pre-burn it before it went into my house (cure the paint, burn off any oils on the metal, etc) and had at least 10 good fires in it. My shop has 6" double wall and it only leaked out condensation the first time I fired it. I do have a moisture meter so I will check my wood but I'm pretty sure its seasoned enough. I also have a magnetic thermo that I will put on the flue pipe to monitor the temps, so I'm guessing you are 100% correct about the clay flue chimney, especially if the book says so. At this point I'm going to order the SS flue liner and insulating blanket as well as a barometric damper which I was going to get anyway (manual recommends it anyway). For now I will keep the damper open since I haven't hooked it to a t-stat yet to keep the flue pipe hot, it will be at least a week before I get the liner. Thank you very much for your input, it's been very helpful!!


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## maple1 (Jan 31, 2017)

A probe type pipe thermometer would be more accurate than a magnetic stick on.

Agreed 100% with an insulated s/s liner.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2017)

plips_2002 said:


> For now I will keep the damper open since I haven't hooked it to a t-stat yet to keep the flue pipe hot


FYI, SBI recommends this not be done, they say that causes overfiring...dunno if it would in this situation or not. You'd need a manometer hooked up to the stovepipe to check the draft after the fire really gets rolling. My guess is that is would get the chimney hot, overdraft, you close the damper and the temp drops like rock...that's the classic scenario with a "too large flue"
Also, you may want to check your flue to make sure you have ~8" the whole way down (drop a piece of 8" pipe down through the flue on a rope) If it goes without too much trouble then you should be OK. If not then there maybe a mortar joint that needs the "excess" snapped off, or worse case scenario you could order 1/4" insulation blanket instead of the standard 1/2".


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## plips_2002 (Feb 6, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> FYI, SBI recommends this not be done, they say that causes overfiring...dunno if it would in this situation or not. You'd need a manometer hooked up to the stovepipe to check the draft after the fire really gets rolling. My guess is that is would get the chimney hot, overdraft, you close the damper and the temp drops like rock...that's the classic scenario with a "too large flue"
> Also, you may want to check your flue to make sure you have ~8" the whole way down (drop a piece of 8" pipe down through the flue on a rope) If it goes without too much trouble then you should be OK. If not then there maybe a mortar joint that needs the "excess" snapped off, or worse case scenario you could order 1/4" insulation blanket instead of the standard 1/2".




It's a clear 8x8 square clay flue, so I will be doing a SS liner with insulation. It's probably gonna be a couple weeks before I get that done so in the mean time should I be ok with burning until then? I did hook a T-stat to it so once loaded and going it's on auto pilot, and when the damper closes and the black pipe cools I am getting the condensation but it's thin like water, not thick like a sap or tar. I put a bucket under the point of exit to catch the fluid and since it's thin I shouldn't worry about creosote build up too fast right? I know the pipes need to be cleaned often but it's only been installed for just over a week now. It's so nice to not have to rely on propane as much cause this thing keeps the house at perfect temps. I want to be a safe as possible so any info is appreciated. Thanks all!!


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## brenndatomu (Feb 6, 2017)

plips_2002 said:


> I am getting the condensation but it's thin like water, not thick like a sap or tar. I put a bucket under the point of exit to catch the fluid and since it's thin I shouldn't worry about creosote build up too fast right?


No, actually that is very likely giving you the worst kind of creosote, the stage 3 "gooey" or liquid kind. What you are seeing running out of the pipe is watery, but the inside of the pipe is coated in "tar" and that will ignite the easiest, and burn the best, out of the 3 kinds of creosote...


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## plips_2002 (Feb 6, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> No, actually that is very likely giving you the worst kind of creosote, the stage 3 "gooey" or liquid kind. What you are seeing running out of the pipe is watery, but the inside of the pipe is coated in "tar" and that will ignite the easiest, and burn the best, out of the 3 kinds of creosote...




Crap, well not what I wanted to hear but I will take your advice and hold off on burning. I just went up to the roof to measure how deep the chimney and I shined a flashlight down inside to find (2) of the clay flue sections offset for one another (ugh), the ID of the flue is about 6 and 1/2 inches, so now I'm concerned that a insulating wrap isnt going to make it down the flue. I'd say its at least 6 feet down from the top so of course no easy fix and I literally have no where else I can pipe this thing out of my basement except the front of the house. A while back I talked to a gentleman at HY-C who now owns the FireChief wood furnace brand name. He is the go to guy for all installation questions for that brand and he recommended instead of wrapping the entire liner that I could go to any home center and purchase a bag of fireproof insulation (I forget the name he gave but it wasnt vermiculite) and from the top stuff down as much as I can around the liner. I understand that its a totally different brand of furnace, I'm just wondering if it's an option and what it might be called. I really cant afford to redo the old chimney . Im also concerned that even after the liner, insulation, and baro damper I'll still have a problem...


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## DoubleB (Feb 6, 2017)

Hey plips,
For what it's worth--I'm not the chimney guy around here.  Also, I have a 6" uninsulated liner in a 35+ foot chimney, and I've never had trouble getting enough draft on my Tundra.  Of course your 25' chimney is shorter, but not as short as we've seen here.  My point is that I don't think you should get too discouraged yet, it still might work just fine even if you can't insulate all, or maybe even any, of it.


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## plips_2002 (Feb 6, 2017)

DoubleB said:


> Hey plips,
> For what it's worth--I'm not the chimney guy around here.  Also, I have a 6" uninsulated liner in a 35+ foot chimney, and I've never had trouble getting enough draft on my Tundra.  Of course your 25' chimney is shorter, but not as short as we've seen here.  My point is that I don't think you should get too discouraged yet, it still might work just fine even if you can't insulate all, or maybe even any, of it.




I get it, and I'm not discouraged, I really do appreciate your input. We use Rockwool at work for insulation so I have access to a tone of it. I'm gonna run the liner and stuff as much of it in as I can and see how it goes. All I can do is try and cross any bridges I need to when I come to them. I have a feeling that it will help keep the main body of the flue warm enough to keep condensation down to at least a minimum, plus adding the baro damper and a manometer (which I have a stack of at work also) I think I'll be ok. Ill keep you all posted after I get the liner and damper in. I don't go down without a fight lol


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## plips_2002 (Mar 21, 2017)

Ok, so my clay flue chimney has an inside diameter of 6.5"x6.5", smaller then I thought. The problem I am having now is that 3 or 4 of the clay tiles have offset themselves and I cannot get the liner down the chimney. There is about 5.5 feet of chimney that is above the finished roof and it looks like the offset tile is within that area so I may have to demo the top of the chimney and either repair it or cope it with morter and continue with class A pipe, is there a collar that transitions from flex liner to class A? I haven't found one yet so I may try to keep the brick and have someone restack it for me. Also, is there an adjustment on the damper to maybe keep it open a little to keep the stove pipe/flue warmer? Seems to me when its closed it can be moved by hand without resistance, so I wondering about trying to prop it open a bit to keep the fire hotter then when it's closed. I know Ill go through wood faster, just exploring my options.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 21, 2017)

What size liner is it? Insulated? If you look on utube you will find vids of people that did a DIY ovalized liner...I would think you could also work it into more of a square shape too. Practice on an extra piece if you have it.
They do make a flex to class A converter...it is basically made to extend your existing chimney taller if you need to...so that may work for you.
They is no adjustment on the damper...many of us just bend a small paper clip to block the damper open a bit...it doesn't take much, especially in cooler weather....probably won't need it at all once the liner goes in.


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## plips_2002 (Mar 22, 2017)

It is a 6 inch un-insulated liner. I do know how to install them and the clay flue tiles that are offset are so offset that no molding of the liner wll get past. On two of them I can actually see the back edge of the clay liner, so taking it down 5 feet or so seems to be my only option. Do you know what the name of that transition collar is and possibly where to get it? I was thinking of a paper clip myself for the damper, but the weather being the way it is might not get to burn another fire this season. Thanks for the reply.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 22, 2017)

Oh, yeah if it is that bad you have no choice...sounds like you should not use it anymore like that either.
Transition plate https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rock-vent-transition-plate.php


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