# ENVI electric wall mount plug in heaters...



## Kahud48 (Jul 30, 2021)

Hi, I know my questions is not pertaining to wood heat but with the knowledge you all have here, I felt you would know the answer to me question the best.
I am thinking of using these to heat my home this Winter, I am in a 900 sq. foot home and will be investing in maybe 5 of these and an air flow with tall floor fans. They say that the walls where they are mounted to can get up to 180 degrees and are not hot enough for any danger. I also see where some can get a little warmer but says  still no ignition danger to the wall. My walls do have a paper covered sheet rock of sorts and just needed your input on the safety of these temps at the walls. I am thinking, to be on the safer side to put some 1/4" plywood on the walls first then mount these units to that instead of just to my naked walls. What do you all think? Need you expertise on ignition temps at certain heat levels.

Thanks
Kathy


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## clancey (Jul 30, 2021)

I am no expert here but I have a blower cord cord  attached to my stove and had the electrician put in a outlet and I do believe the stove clearances would take care of this but I am not sure and hoping some one with more expertise comes on and helps you and me too for that matter...clancey


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## Kahud48 (Jul 30, 2021)

clancey said:


> I am no expert here but I have a blower cord cord  attached to my stove and had the electrician put in a outlet and I do believe the stove clearances would take care of this but I am not sure and hoping some one with more expertise comes on and helps you and me too for that matter...clancey


Thanks, me too. These heaters mount right up against the wall. Just want safety above all


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## begreen (Jul 30, 2021)

It looks like these are 500w units and safe to put directly on sheetrock walls.  I wonder though if you are thinking you will need fans to help convection, why not buy a heater with a fan in it? 
5 of these units will equal 2500w of heat. That's not a lot for the dead of winter. Is there any other source of heat in the house? The other concern would be circuit load if multiple heaters are on the same circuit. How up to date is the wiring?


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## clancey (Jul 31, 2021)

Yea I was always curious about these wall heaters and just could not in my mind trust them but that seems like a lot of electricity to me but what do I know --still trying to figure out if my outlet will be safe--lol...."that fan suggestion might be real good"...just thinking here..clancey


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## Kahud48 (Jul 31, 2021)

begreen said:


> It looks like these are 500w units and safe to put directly on sheetrock walls.  I wonder though if you are thinking you will need fans to help convection, why not buy a heater with a fan in it?
> 5 of these units will equal 2500w of heat. That's not a lot for the dead of winter. Is there any other source of heat in the house? The other concern would be circuit load if multiple heaters are on the same circuit. How up to date is the wiring?


Oh yes, my wiring is up to date and they will be two at the most on one breaker.
I will be using for full heat because my furnace has played out and can't afford to put in a new one as of this coming Winter. They will be on different breakers, maybe two on one at the most. And figured to set a tall fan up to blow on low to circulate. If I am running 5 max, that will only be 2500 watts and like I said, there will be a couple fans to push and pull the heat from room to room. I read that they will need to run for at least a day full run to get the house heated up and then they can be turned down and run to keep it holding.
The main reason not to run the others is that they are mostly 1500 watts and I know they would be really pulling my current and at night these would be on low with us using our electric blankets. Just trying to figure a way to heat that would be safe. I wish I could afford a good wood stove and get it installed professionally, where I live it has to be done by a certified installer and then inspected. Sometimes I wish I was back way out in the country, city life can really be a pain sometimes


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## peakbagger (Jul 31, 2021)

Just in case you did not know the math 2500 watts =8500 btu/hr which is not a lot of heat in cold winter temps even for 900 square feet. If you havent done so invest in temporary weatherstripping along all window seams and cover the windows with plastic. If you have north facing windows, consider buying a sheet of Isoboard foam and cutting it to fit in the window openings. Take a good look at your exterior doors and see if there are any cracks around them. See if your utility has any free or low cost energy saving programs. Many utilities do free blower door testing and will seal air leaks.   My guess is you will be running those heaters on full a lot more than you think and the bllls will be steep. Spending money now wlll pay off a lot later this winter.


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## John Galt (Jul 31, 2021)

Our neighbors have one of these in their tiny house bathroom. They said it does a good job at heating that 40 sq. ft. but not much more.


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## Bad LP (Jul 31, 2021)

I can't imagine these heating the space very well.


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## Don2222 (Jul 31, 2021)

One of my friends bought electric heaters to heat his house instead of oil forced hot water heat in the North East here. After the first month when he received his electric bill, he pulled out all the plugs and never talked about it since! It may be a good idea to ask the electric company how much the electricity is per killawatt hour and all the other fees that apply and do a calculation of a monthly bill before investing in all those heaters.
I had a similar shock when I moved into my house and started watering the lawn  being on town water. After I got the first bill, I have never watered the lawn again since 1986!!
Cutting down the 5 pine trees 1 acorn oak tree and one huge Magnolia tree and planting maple trees, a tri-color beach tree and a flowering Bradford pear tree helped shade the lawn without robbing the nutrients and with a little fertilizer we have a green lawn.


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> Oh yes, my wiring is up to date and they will be two at the most on one breaker.
> I will be using for full heat because my furnace has played out and can't afford to put in a new one as of this coming Winter. They will be on different breakers, maybe two on one at the most. And figured to set a tall fan up to blow on low to circulate. If I am running 5 max, that will only be 2500 watts and like I said, there will be a couple fans to push and pull the heat from room to room. I read that they will need to run for at least a day full run to get the house heated up and then they can be turned down and run to keep it holding.
> The main reason not to run the others is that they are mostly 1500 watts and I know they would be really pulling my current and at night these would be on low with us using our electric blankets. Just trying to figure a way to heat that would be safe. I wish I could afford a good wood stove and get it installed professionally, where I live it has to be done by a certified installer and then inspected. Sometimes I wish I was back way out in the country, city life can really be a pain sometimes


I think 2500w will be insufficient for cold weather. Many electric heaters have multiple wattage settings. I have a Vornado MVH heater in my office which has 3 wattage settings. It normally runs on the thermostatically controlled 500w setting in winter, but in very cold weather I boost it to 1000w.  It is turned off at night. There are also oil-filled radiators that have multiple wattage settings. Some offer a setback setting or a timer for nighttime. They cost less and do more than the expensive ENVI wall heaters.






						Oil Filled Radiators | Dragon Series | Dragon3_TRD0820ER | De'Longhi Heaters
					

You may not have an alpine chalet log fire to cosy up to, but you can achieve the same snug feeling even in the city!



					heating.delonghi.com


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## Kahud48 (Aug 1, 2021)

begreen said:


> It looks like these are 500w units and safe to put directly on sheetrock walls.  I wonder though if you are thinking you will need fans to help convection, why not buy a heater with a fan in it?
> 5 of these units will equal 2500w of heat. That's not a lot for the dead of winter. Is there any other source of heat in the house? The other concern would be circuit load if multiple heaters are on the same circuit. How up to date is the wiring?


Oh yes, my wiring is up to date and they will be


begreen said:


> I think 2500w will be insufficient for cold weather. Many electric heaters have multiple wattage settings. I have a Vornado MVH heater in my office which has 3 wattage settings. It normally runs on the thermostatically controlled 500w setting in winter, but in very cold weather I boost it to 1000w.  It is turned off at night. There are also oil-filled radiators that have multiple wattage settings. Some offer a setback setting or a timer for nighttime. They cost less and do more than the expensive ENVI wall heaters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, I have been looking at the DeLongi (excuse spelling) and debating it. I too have a Vornado NVH and it pulls 1500 and just didn't want to use it this year, ups my bill noticeably!


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## Kahud48 (Aug 1, 2021)

Don2222 said:


> One of my friends bought electric heaters to heat his house instead of oil forced hot water heat in the North East here. After the first month when he received his electric bill, he pulled out all the plugs and never talked about it since! It may be a good idea to ask the electric company how much the electricity is per killawatt hour and all the other fees that apply and do a calculation of a monthly bill before investing in all those heaters.
> I had a similar shock when I moved into my house and started watering the lawn  being on town water. After I got the first bill, I have never watered the lawn again since 1986!!
> Cutting down the 5 pine trees 1 acorn oak tree and one huge Magnolia tree and planting maple trees, a tri-color beach tree and a flowering Bradford pear tree helped shade the lawn without robbing the nutrients and with a little fertilizer we have a green lawn.


I know exactly what you mean. I did the same thing with my water and I bought rain barrels


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## EbS-P (Aug 1, 2021)

Point of reference for electric heat  My heatpump has about 3.3 kw (10kBTUs) for every 1000 sq ft.  (10kw for 2000 sq for up stairs and 1000 sq ft down)  And Bowling Green has a design temp 12 degrees lower than I do here in costal NC.     At temps less than 20 degrees my heatpump is ineffective and the restive strips are needed.  At 12.5 cents per kWh it costs me $1.25 an hour to run. 

The total heating capacity you are adding is less than two hair dryers on hi.   

Evan.


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## clancey (Aug 1, 2021)

I have two Dilonghi heaters in my bird loft and I use them in winter when it gets real cold and I keep the temperature about 60 degrees just to make it comfortable and I keep the two of them on just at night time and it raises my electric bill about 100 dollars more.. They are nice heaters no blowing noise or fumes and they are clean burning as well all contained..They would be good for you..clancey


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## tlc1976 (Aug 1, 2021)

Electric heat is the same, regardless how pricey or fancy the heater. What you’re doing would be about the same as 2 cheap 1500 watt heaters. I did that at my old house one year during hard times, it wasn’t comfortable but it kept the core of the house about 50-60f. Combined with blankets over the windows and closing off all the bedrooms. I got a supply of wood and started burning the next year.

I would invest as least as possible into this. Since you really want to save your money for a new furnace. Like others said, seal off windows and air leaks. As always, make sure you can still get out in case of fire. Get a couple of cheap 1500 watt heaters and see how it goes. Most have a low setting if you’re concerned about drawing too much. Placement really makes a difference. Make sure they are each on separate circuits that don’t have anything else running on them, don’t use extension cords, and make sure the plugs seat firmly into the outlets. I would check daily to make sure the cords and outlets were not getting hot. I also set the heaters on a non combustible surface.


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## Kahud48 (Aug 2, 2021)

EbS-P said:


> Point of reference for electric heat  My heatpump has about 3.3 kw (10kBTUs) for every 1000 sq ft.  (10kw for 2000 sq for up stairs and 1000 sq ft down)  And Bowling Green has a design temp 12 degrees lower than I do here in costal NC.     At temps less than 20 degrees my heatpump is ineffective and the restive strips are needed.  At 12.5 cents per kWh it costs me $1.25 an hour to run.
> 
> The total heating capacity you are adding is less than two hair dryers on hi.
> 
> Evan.


One of these heaters, on low are rated to heat a 10x10 room and at max approx of 500watts, how is it they can not heat my home? My electric furnace os a joke on heating my home and it runs me around $200-$300 a month in the Winter. And for the most part here, we average in the 30's at night in the dead of Winter, maybe a few nights in the 20's and at least once or twice in the teens. I live in south central KY near the TN border.


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## peakbagger (Aug 2, 2021)

No substitute for experience, let us know how it worked in the spring.


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## begreen (Aug 2, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> One of these heaters, on low are rated to heat a 10x10 room and at max approx of 500watts, how is it they can not heat my home? My electric furnace os a joke on heating my home and it runs me around $200-$300 a month in the Winter. And for the most part here, we average in the 30's at night in the dead of Winter, maybe a few nights in the 20's and at least once or twice in the teens. I live in south central KY near the TN border.


That is a marketing statement. It doesn't say at what outdoor temperature it will heat a 10x10 room and what amount of insulation it would take to keep the room at 70º when it is 20º outside.

If the issue is heat loss because the house is poorly insulated and leaky then this could be the issue, not the electric furnace.


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## semipro (Aug 2, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> My electric furnace os a joke on heating my home and it runs me around $200-$300 a month in the Winter.


Electric resistance heat is basically 100% efficient.  Its sounds like the central unit you have now and what you are looking at buying are both electrical resistance units.  You will spend a fair amount of money on the ENVI heaters and gain nothing when compared to running your central unit.  You can achieve the same or better results with your current system by lowering the thermostat set temp since the amount of heat you're proposing won't likely warm your house to acceptable temps.  Your money is better spent using your existing unit and sealing air leaks and insulating.  Check this out to get a better idea of what many of us here are talking about.

If you must use plug-in electric heaters consider you should consider using an infrared unit and moving it around to wherever it is needed, pointed at a human.  We do this in our bathroom in winter.  We only use them when we are nearby, usually while standing in front of our sink.   This is much like using your electric blanket.  Heat the person, not the room.

Edit: 500 watts of resistance heat is 1706 BTU
According to the info at the link I shared above you need about *40,500*  BTU total for your house based on your climate and average parameters.  In other words, you'd need about 24 of the ENVI units to put out that much heat.


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## clancey (Aug 2, 2021)

That's true for my loft is well insulated with blanket pink insulation on the walls and the ceiling and this makes a real big difference--even with having 7 windows on one side top and also bottom windows and three on the other side but insulated well and caulked too being shut in the wintertime. With this insulation at night I can keep it around 60 degrees with the two oil heaters but it takes a while for them to get heated up but once they do clear sailing. The heating area is about 10 foot wide to 18 foot long and 8 foot high about...Use to be an old horse carriage area with the horse-lol . Only now it is for my birdies-pigeons...but it keeps it about 60 and that's the most it will do .They are on a concrete floor...So if you go cheap and try to save money you most likely can heat only one room unless you move the heaters around...what a pain that would be...I would seek help to see if you could get help to put a nice furnace in your place that would be energy efficient and they are out there and they do real well "if you house is well insulated", then your heating bills will be much lower. begreen is right with the insulation talk..I have oil filled radiator heaters because with the other type of heaters I do not like them blowing around with the red hot looking heating elements.. My type of heaters give a steady heat flow and they do for the birdies..clancey


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## EbS-P (Aug 2, 2021)

semipro said:


> shared above you need about 50,000 BTU


 I can’t imagine that for 900 sq ft in KY.   design temp for BG is like 15 F.   

Evan


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## semipro (Aug 2, 2021)

EbS-P said:


> I can’t imagine that for 900 sq ft in KY. design temp for BG is like 15 F.
> 
> Evan


I just thought I'd note that I was editing my post while you were writing.  I revised my number to 40,000 BTU.


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## Kahud48 (Aug 2, 2021)

peakbagger said:


> No substitute for experience, let us know how it worked in the spring.


Still debating, but what people don't know is that I have an $800 credit with my power company and that the old furnace was running us a LOT every Winter before it played out. Here where I live they want $3000 for a new unit put in. Last year when it went out was at our coldest when we dipped into the teens for about 4 nights that week. Closed off all my rooms but 2 and these two little 1500 watt blow heaters I had eat us up in current pulled (worse than a blow dryer) just to stay halfway warm and them staying on are true fire hazards, over heating wires on them made me nervous to where I had to turn them off, could NOT keep on.
What I have learned is that a radiant heat has to run and that they do not heat fast, but once all in the home has warmed up, the heater and the objects in the rooms will keep the heat retained. I just can't understand how a 500watt x's 5 units scattered throughout my home won't keep it hoovering around the 60's.
For 2,500 watts and two stand up fans on low helping to get the heat down from the ceiling and circulating in the house can't do the job to stay decently warm.

Heck, my furnace only blowed half butt warm air out and kept it warm in here before it went out, evidently this mobile home is better insulated than I thought

Living on fixed income makes one have to cut corners and budget to the max. Maybe by this time next year I can afford to get another furnace put in. And for a low cost, radiant heater, by Nov. I can have them bought and installed ready to go a LOT cheaper than a new furnace, for now.


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## Kahud48 (Aug 2, 2021)

EbS-P said:


> I can’t imagine that for 900 sq ft in KY.   design temp for BG is like 15 F.
> 
> Evan


We do good to get down to 15 degrees in the Winter. Most lows are in the 30's, sometimes we do drop to the 20's but not for long. AND maybe a very few days we do dip into the teens but that don't last long.


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## stoveliker (Aug 2, 2021)

Can't you put the $800 (already a quarter of a new system, apparently) towards a new furnace, and have the rest on a payment plan to your utility with payments added to your utility bill? That's a way you can do it in Knoxville TN.

The new furnace will be more efficient as long as the resistive heat doesn't kick in, saving you money.

Once resistive heat kicks in it's as efficient as the space heaters (same mode of heating) IF your ducts are insulated properly and don't leak.

So the seal and insulate your ducts and (ducts in your) attic. Seal your walls. That does not cost much.


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## begreen (Aug 2, 2021)

I am going to guess that this is a 10-12 kW furnace in this sized mobile. What is the make and model of the electric furnace?

Has anyone investigated under the mobile to see if the plenum and ductwork is still intact and well insulated? Rodents love to tear into the insulation of these systems and the ducts that run across the underbelly of a mobile. They can make a real mess of it. If the ductwork insulation is gone or connections are leaky then that would definitely make the output anemic and the electric bills high.


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## stoveliker (Aug 2, 2021)

begreen said:


> I am going to guess that this is a 10-12 kW furnace in this sized mobile. What is the make and model of the electric furnace?
> 
> Has anyone investigated under the mobile to see if the plenum and ductwork is still intact and well insulated? Rodents love to tear into the insulation of these systems and the ducts that run across the underbelly of a mobile. They can make a real mess of it. If the ductwork insulation is gone or connections are leaky then that would definitely make the output anemic and the electric bills high.



Hm, yes, not the attic but below the floor.


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## semipro (Aug 2, 2021)

I think the OP should consider installing 1 or 2 ductless mini-split heat pumps. 
The cost is more upfront but they will pay for themselves very quickly. 
Money spent on replacing an electric furnace would be a waste in comparison.
Money spent on space heaters will be a total waste for area heating especially after the plumbing is damaged due to freezing.


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## begreen (Aug 2, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> Hm, yes, not the attic but below the floor.


Yes, typically there is little or no attic so a downflow furnace is used.


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## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2021)

semipro said:


> Electric resistance heat is basically 100% efficient.  Its sounds like the central unit you have now and what you are looking at buying are both electrical resistance units.  You will spend a fair amount of money on the ENVI heaters and gain nothing when compared to running your central unit.  You can achieve the same or better results with your current system by lowering the thermostat set temp since the amount of heat you're proposing won't likely warm your house to acceptable temps.  Your money is better spent using your existing unit and sealing air leaks and insulating.  Check this out to get a better idea of what many of us here are talking about.
> 
> If you must use plug-in electric heaters consider you should consider using an infrared unit and moving it around to wherever it is needed, pointed at a human.  We do this in our bathroom in winter.  We only use them when we are nearby, usually while standing in front of our sink.   This is much like using your electric blanket.  Heat the person, not the room.
> 
> ...


Good info there!
Sounds like a 40K  BTU wood pellet stove could work very well there!!
I heat my entire house with one up here in NH and it is warm and cozy!


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## Kahud48 (Aug 2, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> Can't you put the $800 (already a quarter of a new system, apparently) towards a new furnace, and have the rest on a payment plan to your utility with payments added to your utility bill? That's a way you can do it in Knoxville TN.
> 
> The new furnace will be more efficient as long as the resistive heat doesn't kick in, saving you money.
> 
> ...


I wish I could, the companies here do not set up on a payment plan (at least that was what the two I called told me), must be paid for upfront. Hiller wanted $7000 to install and the other one I call said could do for $2500. So you tell me if I should even trust either one of them.

I am pretty much done with the worry this is causing me, God will provide how ever way this goes, that I CAN trust in (can't say the same anymore for most the people out there I have come across here of late)


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## fbelec (Sep 2, 2021)

a little old but....  when we set up electric heat in someone house the formula is for 3 inch insulated walls square footage times 10. if you have 6 inch walls it is square footage times 7. regardless of your heater it is what it is. if a room takes 1000 watts to heat and it is cycling off and on every half hour but instead you run 500 watts the 500 watt heater will run 24/7 it will cost the same as the 1000 watt cycling on and off every half hour. i haven't looked up those heaters that you want to run but if they are like a few customers of mine have they are useless. they bought one because it said it would heat the apartment and when it didn't do it the bought another one and that didn't work and at the same time because they were running so much the bill was sky high. that's when they called me in to fix what they had. 

i have used the oil filled radiator here and they are a nice unit. even on it's highest setting it will not even light up paper sitting on top of it but it will heat a normal sized room without a problem. they also go with a 600 watt setting which is low a 900 watt setting that is med and a 1500 watt setting which is high. on top of the thermostat that is built in. 4 of those might just squeak by on a cold night but if your trying to take out the chill at 50 degrees you can adjust the wattage down and not have a problem. the nice thing about these heaters is the most sound you here it the thermostat clicking on and off. like i say 4 on 900 watt setting sound do a mobile home because of the lower ceiling. and if it gets cold use 1500 watt setting. in the mobile homes i've been in the back bedroom should be on a separate circuit the livingroom should be separate both 15 amps (1800 watts) and the diningroom should be a separate 20 amp (2400watt) and the kitchen should have two 20 amp circuits on the counters.


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## Kahud48 (Sep 13, 2021)

fbelec said:


> a little old but....  when we set up electric heat in someone house the formula is for 3 inch insulated walls square footage times 10. if you have 6 inch walls it is square footage times 7. regardless of your heater it is what it is. if a room takes 1000 watts to heat and it is cycling off and on every half hour but instead you run 500 watts the 500 watt heater will run 24/7 it will cost the same as the 1000 watt cycling on and off every half hour. i haven't looked up those heaters that you want to run but if they are like a few customers of mine have they are useless. they bought one because it said it would heat the apartment and when it didn't do it the bought another one and that didn't work and at the same time because they were running so much the bill was sky high. that's when they called me in to fix what they had.
> 
> i have used the oil filled radiator here and they are a nice unit. even on it's highest setting it will not even light up paper sitting on top of it but it will heat a normal sized room without a problem. they also go with a 600 watt setting which is low a 900 watt setting that is med and a 1500 watt setting which is high. on top of the thermostat that is built in. 4 of those might just squeak by on a cold night but if your trying to take out the chill at 50 degrees you can adjust the wattage down and not have a problem. the nice thing about these heaters is the most sound you here it the thermostat clicking on and off. like i say 4 on 900 watt setting sound do a mobile home because of the lower ceiling. and if it gets cold use 1500 watt setting. in the mobile homes i've been in the back bedroom should be on a separate circuit the livingroom should be separate both 15 amps (1800 watts) and the diningroom should be a separate 20 amp (2400watt) and the kitchen should have two 20 amp circuits on the counters.


Thank you fbelec, think I will use these two I already bought, 1 in each bedroom, and 1 oil space heater in kitchen and 1 space oil heater in LR. For my 900 sq ft home, that should work. I can even close off a room or two if need be


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## fbelec (Sep 13, 2021)

here's hoping it works out for you.


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## blades (Sep 15, 2021)

real problem when not using mobile home ducted furnace is freezing waterlines, as they are run next to the ducting.  Make every effort to insure that your belly fabric and insulation under the home is completely intact.  if it isn't you will be replacing water lines and depending on your place the sub floor as well.  A lot of them used chip board(osb) or particle board  for the sub flooring- if it gets wet it turns to mush - a real mess to replace and expensive to boot.    I have personal experience with this.  You might want to wrap the water lines with the heat tapes to be on the safe side. Also a pia. don't need to run all the time but if its going to be below freezing then turn them on- good insurance.  In my 7 year tenure with a 80's vintage mobile home  I ran into just about every problem possible.  expensive education thanks to a divorce.( also an expensive education )


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## zrock (Sep 17, 2021)

Electric heaters should be on their own dedicated circuit they pull a lot of power and can easily heat up the plugs and wire even those infrared pull a lot of power feel your plugs at the end of the day and your cords.  Seen way to many home fires due to electric plug in heaters..  You will use up your credit the first month trying to run that many electric heaters...  You would be better off getting a loan and putting in a new furnace. With what you save the first year you would be able to pay out the loan...  Look around for company's that sell manufactured homes as quite often people order them with a furnace and then have the furnace pulled and install a heat pump.  Then usually sell the furnace for 1/4 the cost of new.. I did this for one of the older homes i reno'd and it cost me 2 hours labor for the guy to install the stack and hook up the gas. All done for under $1000. I talked to the people and they keep their house warm and pay about $50 a month in heat.  Or you could buy a good used pellet stove and install it yourself and just pay for the inspection. Thats what i did and my heating is cheap and warmer than any furnace i would install...


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## Kahud48 (Sep 17, 2021)

clancey said:


> I have two Dilonghi heaters in my bird loft and I use them in winter when it gets real cold and I keep the temperature about 60 degrees just to make it comfortable and I keep the two of them on just at night time and it raises my electric bill about 100 dollars more.. They are nice heaters no blowing noise or fumes and they are clean burning as well all contained..They would be good for you..clancey


Agreed, am looking to add a couple of them to go along with my two Envi wall heaters, should do good for us with two small rooms closed off


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## Kahud48 (Oct 3, 2021)

fbelec said:


> here's hoping it works out for you.


Thank you


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## Kahud48 (Nov 7, 2021)

Have been using my two envi heaters and so far, 29 degree hard freeze night, these two held my indoor temp in the mid 60's on low.
Just purchased 2 more and will be placing all 4 approx. 12 to 15 ft. apart so I can keep all open and circulating nicely throughout. Have 3 up now and another below freezing night, it stayed around 70 on low. All are on separate breakers and so far they are doing a much better job than the old 220 furnace did! 
Only 1500 watts going with these 3 set up and they are on low, do not click on all at same time either. 
We mounted each of them onto 2'x4' 1/2" cabinet grade plywood, much easier to do than in a wall, and this way they are portable to set anywhere needed in my house. Just updating the using of these and just how good they are working for me.
My mobile home must be well insulated, thank the good Lord above!


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## Kahud48 (Nov 7, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> Agreed, am looking to add a couple of them to go along with my two Envi wall heaters, should do good for us with two small rooms closed off


envi heaters are not 1500 watts, don't run as much electric and so far with the running of only two for over a week on low, has kept us in the mid to upper 60's, I have a mobile home, not much to heat up and they are doing to job great!


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## zrock (Nov 12, 2021)

trying to figure out how you have 4 of these all on separate breakers. Most modular homes the main home is all on about 4 different breakers the whole living room would have been one and most of the hall ways, bedrooms usually on one breaker, etc. anything around 10 years and newer would have more breakers for the main home to separate things out and anything older you more than likely would have to run a new dedicated breaker to run a heater


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## fbelec (Nov 13, 2021)

it's possible especially if they are on low. we have a mobile home park here in town and they have to put up with the same electrical codes as a regular home. if any of those rooms are redone then they have to be brought up to code. the ones around here have a minimum of 60 amp mains. 1 circuit for the oil burner, 1 for bedroom  and 1 for livingroom and second bedroom, 2 circuits for kitchen counters, 1 for bath outlet, 1 for clothes washer, 1 for lights and fridge. most here have 16 circuit panels and are full.


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## Kahud48 (Nov 14, 2021)

fbelec said:


> it's possible especially if they are on low. we have a mobile home park here in town and they have to put up with the same electrical codes as a regular home. if any of those rooms are redone then they have to be brought up to code. the ones around here have a minimum of 60 amp mains. 1 circuit for the oil burner, 1 for bedroom  and 1 for livingroom and second bedroom, 2 circuits for kitchen counters, 1 for bath outlet, 1 for clothes washer, 1 for lights and fridge. most here have 16 circuit panels and are full.


Yes and I have them spaced out. One in main hall, one in LR, one on breaker sidewall in kitchen (separate from the rest of the kitchen even though it sets in there) and one in hubby's room, decided to to put in that small hall there when it works just fine going ahead and setting it in his room. Will try and send a pic of how I have done them so they are basically portable.
I was going to put that one in the small hall and plug into the clothes washer (no longer have) but didn't have to


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## Kahud48 (Nov 14, 2021)

Here are the pics so you can see how I have them spaced out, and my bed is in the LR due to health issues. We also sleep under electric blankets if and when needed.

1st one in main hall, taking pic standing just inside bathroom, end BR closed off, middle BR there stays open, is my office and craft room
(We try and keep them set here but have turned them to what we call 3:00)
(Was told by company that no matter, low or high, they still only pull around 500 watts each)
2nd one there at the end of the hall in the LR
3rd pic you can see the one in the LR and the one across there just in the kitchen, separate outside wall plug from kitchen breakers.
4th one you can look back through the small/short hall there and see it in hubby's BR

Just checked thermostats and the one in the main hall reads 70 degrees and the big one (looks like a huge wall clock, lol) on the wall center in LR reads 70,
it is right now 52 degrees outside

I have them all mounted onto 2'x4'cabinet grade plywood boards with the grey inset plastic wall inserts screwed onto the sticking out screws at the back of the boards, covered over with cotton balls and taped over that to protect the wall and anything from being scratched.
I think I did a pretty good job coming up with a way to make these portable, short of cutting off the screws in the back 
(didn't want to do that)


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## fbelec (Nov 15, 2021)

they look good. did a nice job of placement also. be aware that if you said you lived in a northern state i say buy a oil filled radiator for the cold days but not sure how cold it gets where you are. i believe you said you have 4 if so thats only 2000 watts when it gets cold i think you'll need another 1000 watts. not sure how much they cost but that is two more. sounds expensive to buy. up here in mass we put in 500 watt heaters just for a average size bathroom. anyway nice job


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## zrock (Nov 15, 2021)

I will guarantee the wiring is getting hot with those things plugged in...  I used to install and operate a park and had dealt with this on numerous occasions... 

Have you contacted a local company that setup or sells modular homes?  A lot of times people will have heat pumps installed but when they order the unit it still comes with a furnace.  A lot of times the company's will sell these for next to nothing we used to pay about $900 shipped to our door in Canada and we live way up north so 1/2 of that was shipping. That was for a furnace around 80-90% efficiency.   Usually cost us about $500 for a gas fitter to come in and install the unit... What the customers saved in heating costs in 1 year paid for everything..  If you own the place you can take a loan out against your home and get things done right...


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## fbelec (Nov 16, 2021)

i wish the gas fitters were that cheap here. minimum i seen charged for any gas run is $1200.00. wiring for 500 watts should be cool but if the outlet is wired using the holes on the back of it instead of the screws on the side they should be changed. that can cause heat and failure.


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## zrock (Nov 16, 2021)

their would be no gass run all they have to do is hook up the existing stub in the floor


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## Kahud48 (Nov 16, 2021)

fbelec said:


> they look good. did a nice job of placement also. be aware that if you said you lived in a northern state i say buy a oil filled radiator for the cold days but not sure how cold it gets where you are. i believe you said you have 4 if so thats only 2000 watts when it gets cold i think you'll need another 1000 watts. not sure how much they cost but that is two more. sounds expensive to buy. up here in mass we put in 500 watt heaters just for a average size bathroom. anyway nice job


Thank You
I live in South Central KY.
We hoover in the 30's for the most part and maybe one week in the Winter season we will hit the 20's/upper teens, but for the most part, we are 30's.
We have thought about that too and have planned on closing off the second bedroom off from the main hall (my office) if we need too and that would free up a few square feet to extend on down the hall into the LR.


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## Kahud48 (Nov 16, 2021)

zrock said:


> I will guarantee the wiring is getting hot with those things plugged in...  I used to install and operate a park and had dealt with this on numerous occasions...
> 
> Have you contacted a local company that setup or sells modular homes?  A lot of times people will have heat pumps installed but when they order the unit it still comes with a furnace.  A lot of times the company's will sell these for next to nothing we used to pay about $900 shipped to our door in Canada and we live way up north so 1/2 of that was shipping. That was for a furnace around 80-90% efficiency.   Usually cost us about $500 for a gas fitter to come in and install the unit... What the customers saved in heating costs in 1 year paid for everything..  If you own the place you can take a loan out against your home and get things done right...


The wiring is not getting hot, I feel the cords and the plugs on a daily basis and they are as cold as they can be.
With Covid, we have done good just have  these being in stock so we could buy them for this Winter. 

Tell me, if the cords/plugs are cold, is not the wiring is also cold in the wall?
And If 500 watts (and they are set on thermostats) over heats the wall wiring then we have a real fire trap of a trailer, correct?
What am I missing here?
And these units also have the 3 prong cords, not the little cheap 2 prong, I would NOT even consider plugging one of those fire hazard heaters up in my home, no way!


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## Kahud48 (Nov 16, 2021)

fbelec said:


> they look good. did a nice job of placement also. be aware that if you said you lived in a northern state i say buy a oil filled radiator for the cold days but not sure how cold it gets where you are. i believe you said you have 4 if so thats only 2000 watts when it gets cold i think you'll need another 1000 watts. not sure how much they cost but that is two more. sounds expensive to buy. up here in mass we put in 500 watt heaters just for a average size bathroom. anyway nice job


Thank you so much, nice to have someone see my situation and compliment me on doing the best I can to take care to heat my home best and safest way I can. Living on fixed income dictates how you have to do things sometimes, no other choice


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## Kahud48 (Nov 16, 2021)

I just checked eheat website and just found out this bit of info. See why I did these and got them way ahead of time? Thank God I bought the other 2 in October or we would not be covered heat wise.....

Temporarily On Backorder - orders shipped on a first come first served basis.


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## fbelec (Nov 17, 2021)

zrock said:


> their would be no gass run all they have to do is hook up the existing stub in the floor


sometimes to pipe has to be larger and would have to be changed


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## fbelec (Nov 17, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> Tell me, if the cords/plugs are cold, is not the wiring is also cold in the wall?
> And If 500 watts (and they are set on thermostats) over heats the wall wiring then we have a real fire trap of a trailer, correct?
> What am I missing here?
> And these units also have the 3 prong cords, not the little cheap 2 prong, I would NOT even consider plugging one of those fire hazard heaters up in my home, no way!


wiring should be ok at 500 watts but you have to figure in the rest of the circuit. if your circuit breakers are ok 15 amps is 1800 watts.
if they are cycling on and off from the thermostat that's even better. if your wall above the outlet or the outlet is warm then yes you have a problem and you should call a electrician right away. don't be afraid of the two prong plug types they are usually all plastic or double insulated.  the reason people have fires because of electric heater use is not the unit but it's usually people don't follow the directions. even the permanent wall baseboard heater can start fires if they have either paper on top of them or curtains hanging over them.  i have a couple of ceramic square heaters and are suppose to be efficient and all around good heaters. i keep them just incase for me only. i also have a oil filled radiator i lend that if need be because it's safe. even on high it doesn't get burning hot. paper needs over 400 degrees to burn the oil filled radiator doesn't get that hot. the ceramic heaters i have after running it for a few minutes will burn your hand if you put it in front of it.


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## Kahud48 (Nov 17, 2021)

fbelec said:


> wiring should be ok at 500 watts but you have to figure in the rest of the circuit. if your circuit breakers are ok 15 amps is 1800 watts.
> if they are cycling on and off from the thermostat that's even better. if your wall above the outlet or the outlet is warm then yes you have a problem and you should call a electrician right away. don't be afraid of the two prong plug types they are usually all plastic or double insulated.  the reason people have fires because of electric heater use is not the unit but it's usually people don't follow the directions. even the permanent wall baseboard heater can start fires if they have either paper on top of them or curtains hanging over them.  i have a couple of ceramic square heaters and are suppose to be efficient and all around good heaters. i keep them just incase for me only. i also have a oil filled radiator i lend that if need be because it's safe. even on high it doesn't get burning hot. paper needs over 400 degrees to burn the oil filled radiator doesn't get that hot. the ceramic heaters i have after running it for a few minutes will burn your hand if you put it in front of it.


Right now all 4 heaters are off but when I need to kick them back in, I will check the walls above the plugs and let you know but so far, all I am use to checking is staying really cold, not even a hint of warm


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## Kahud48 (Nov 17, 2021)

fbelec said:


> wiring should be ok at 500 watts but you have to figure in the rest of the circuit. if your circuit breakers are ok 15 amps is 1800 watts.
> if they are cycling on and off from the thermostat that's even better. if your wall above the outlet or the outlet is warm then yes you have a problem and you should call a electrician right away. don't be afraid of the two prong plug types they are usually all plastic or double insulated.  the reason people have fires because of electric heater use is not the unit but it's usually people don't follow the directions. even the permanent wall baseboard heater can start fires if they have either paper on top of them or curtains hanging over them.  i have a couple of ceramic square heaters and are suppose to be efficient and all around good heaters. i keep them just incase for me only. i also have a oil filled radiator i lend that if need be because it's safe. even on high it doesn't get burning hot. paper needs over 400 degrees to burn the oil filled radiator doesn't get that hot. the ceramic heaters i have after running it for a few minutes will burn your hand if you put it in front of it.


Yeah, I have had the ceramic ones before, but them being 1500 watt, they have always gotten hot cord/plug and that worried me. So when I found the envi heater, I was new I had to try them. Got the 2 back in July and once I got to use them for a week, ordered 2 more (Oct.).
So far I have no complaints


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## Kahud48 (Nov 18, 2021)

Kahud48 said:


> Right now all 4 heaters are off but when I need to kick them back in, I will check the walls above the plugs and let you know but so far, all I am use to checking is staying really cold, not even a hint of warm


Got them back on today as temps are dropping and the walls above and beside the sockets are nice and cold


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## clancey (Nov 18, 2021)

i hope I can make sense with these technical electrical questions but it is important for me and I worry about it.. I have a garage with about 5 outlets and I use only three..Now I use for my birdies two oil filled radiator heaters in the coldest of winter and these radiators portable have two buttons with different watts I guess and I only use the lowest first one and turn the dial all the way up for more heat...Now my problem is the first oil filled portable radiator is perfect--cool cord...but the second socket used the same way as the first has a warm plastic plug in the socket when its on at the same time as the first perfect one...Is this amps or something in the box that allows these two sockets to be cool or warm hot and is this second socket dangerous and should I amp up the amps? Sorry for the hard way of asking this question--lol  clancey


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## tlc1976 (Nov 18, 2021)

clancey said:


> i hope I can make sense with these technical electrical questions but it is important for me and I worry about it.. I have a garage with about 5 outlets and I use only three..Now I use for my birdies two oil filled radiator heaters in the coldest of winter and these radiators portable have two buttons with different watts I guess and I only use the lowest first one and turn the dial all the way up for more heat...Now my problem is the first oil filled portable radiator is perfect--cool cord...but the second socket used the same way as the first has a warm plastic plug in the socket when its on at the same time as the first perfect one...Is this amps or something in the box that allows these two sockets to be cool or warm hot and is this second socket dangerous and should I amp up the amps? Sorry for the hard way of asking this question--lol  clancey


What happens if you use only one heater in the second socket, and nothing in the first?

If it still gets warm, and you’re not running anything else in the room, then it’s the socket. It should be looked at and replaced. Try using a different socket.

If it doesn’t get warm at the second socket, then two heaters is too much. The garage is probably on one circuit, and the outlets might be wired in a chain from one to the other. So your second outlet might have the load of both heaters passing through it. Everything from there to the breaker box is also taking that load. Possibly whatever you’re running on the third socket, and likely the room light too.

Like has been posted earlier, each heater should be on a separate circuit.


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## clancey (Nov 18, 2021)

Thank you and I think the two heaters are on the same wire because when I have two going one gets warm and the other doesn't and if just using the one its fine so I will get an electrician to take a look at this---thank you...I even brought the warm plug heater in the house just to see if it would continue to get warm--the plug and it did not..so I need a separate circuit---thanks so much and I will be using just one heater until I get the electrician to fix..may the birdies fluff their feathers and be warm like they do to hold in all the heat..lol  thanks again...clancey


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## zrock (Nov 19, 2021)

If your going to have a electrician come in and drop you another line have them drop a line for each heater.. Then they are on their own circuits and leave your others open for you to do other things..  Their will not be much of a cost difference in supply's and maybe a hours extra labor


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## clancey (Nov 19, 2021)

Thank you and i will do that for I want it to be safe for my birdies (pigeons) out there and not worry at night time when I turn them on ( the heaters  two of them)..Keeps my garage about 50 degrees in the morning and does not let the water freeze..I am only using one for now which is fine for pigeons can take cold temperatures anyway.  They fluff their feathers up and keep their body heat warm and  when you see them on the poles outside  they are actually warm but look cold.. I could talk hours about my birdies but I won't here--lol lol...Thank you so much everybody...clancey


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## fbelec (Nov 22, 2021)

+1 what other have said. if you are using 2 heaters and they are 600 watts each they total 1200 watts if you use 1 heater on high is 1500 watts not to much difference accept if you burn out 1 heater from leaving it running full you have the second one to use. if you use both heaters even on low you could burn the low element out and it won't work. better to use 1 heater and set the thermostat about half way. but here is a second thought. if you are using these heaters so that the water doesn't freeze you can buy a heated water dish or find a small element to put in the water to keep it from freezing.  i  you  get the bowl thats heated it uses the same power as a light bulb instead of heaters. way way cheaper on the electric bill.


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## clancey (Nov 22, 2021)

That's very true what you say and I have a few heated water dishes if I want to use them and they work really well but this way I can keep the cords out of the lofting area and plug them (the oil heaters)  into the entrance area --double door set up here for safety reasons so that my birdies cannot fly out the main door (some of these birdies are disabled but quicker than one would think). My water containers are fresh everyday and they are on raised feet and this helps me place them down for it is easier on my back because I do not have to bend too far down...I like the loft area to be about 50 degrees and right now I am using one heater on low but when it gets cold i would like to have another one at the other end on low and of course at night I shut all 11 windows and this makes the birdie loft nice and snug.. The loft has insulation in the walls (dry wall) as well as having hard wire guards on the windows over the glass for security reasons from other creatures when I open up the windows.  Sort of like hard wire extra windows with frames and a hook to secure it.. I have a separate electric box in the loft and the wire is running to my main house by way of the yard..I am using three slots in the box and I have five that are just vacant with nothing but  a metal piece over them..I use solar air vents on the roof for venting.. It would be way much cheaper your way .This set up is only plugged in at night time in the freezing temperatures and cost me about 40 extra dollars a month to heat and also the heaters stay clean being in a separate area with the Christmas music.  You make very valid points here and what I am trying to do is outlive my birdies--lol and some of them are 17 years old which is very very old for pigeons...I am losing about 4 or 5 every few years with old age and right now I have 20 birdies left with 28 wooden lofting boxes that are 24x13 high and about 14 wide I guess..(ball park)..These heaters last about four or five years and then I buy some more at the arc store or whenever I see working ones cheap..These two were almost new and I paid 6 dollars a piece for them from the habitat store and they work really well...I am setting up a appointment with my electrician to see what he can do using your guide lines of one wire-one heater per--thanks so much and Have a wonderful holiday season and eat plenty of stuffing...maybe I will decorate a fake Christmas  tree for them with some pretty lights too...lol  old clancey


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## Kahud48 (Nov 22, 2021)

fbelec said:


> +1 what other have said. if you are using 2 heaters and they are 600 watts each they total 1200 watts if you use 1 heater on high is 1500 watts not to much difference accept if you burn out 1 heater from leaving it running full you have the second one to use. if you use both heaters even on low you could burn the low element out and it won't work. better to use 1 heater and set the thermostat about half way. but here is a second thought. if you are using these heaters so that the water doesn't freeze you can buy a heated water dish or find a small element to put in the water to keep it from freezing.  i  you  get the bowl thats heated it uses the same power as a light bulb instead of heaters. way way cheaper on the electric bill.


Just got my first full month electric bill and it was $108. 40 which I think is very good!
The Envi heaters do not go above 500 watts, that's the max. On low, 500 watts, on high, 500 watts. It pulls 500 watts ONLY when it is running.  They are radiant heaters. These are my full heat source and so far, they are working the way they are supposed to.
They are also warranted for 3 years which is better than most others I have seen out there.

My water pipes are also heat wrapped and the underside of my trailer is well insulated. These little radiant heaters are doing pretty good for us thus far, thank the good Lord above!


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## zrock (Nov 22, 2021)

Expect that bill to triple once it gets cold... I cant remember if you said your furnace was dead or still working somewhat but when it drops to -10 or so out you should let your furnace run.. I usually set mine at 10-15 and let it run when the stove is off during the day and night... This keeps your pipes in the floor and walls from freezing as the heat ducts are run along the pipes just for this reason... 
Also now that your using these electric heaters as your main source of heat contact your insurance company and make sure you are covered.  You may not be covered the way your policy is set up right now i know in my area your insurance skyrockets if you use wood heat as your primary and policy changes if you use any other source of main heat other than what was installed originally in your trailer...  Also have you contacted your insurance and seen if they would cover a new furnace?

Make sure you are covered incase of something going wrong


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## Kahud48 (Nov 24, 2021)

zrock said:


> Expect that bill to triple once it gets cold... I cant remember if you said your furnace was dead or still working somewhat but when it drops to -10 or so out you should let your furnace run.. I usually set mine at 10-15 and let it run when the stove is off during the day and night... This keeps your pipes in the floor and walls from freezing as the heat ducts are run along the pipes just for this reason...
> Also now that your using these electric heaters as your main source of heat contact your insurance company and make sure you are covered.  You may not be covered the way your policy is set up right now i know in my area your insurance skyrockets if you use wood heat as your primary and policy changes if you use any other source of main heat other than what was installed originally in your trailer...  Also have you contacted your insurance and seen if they would cover a new furnace?
> 
> Make sure you are covered incase of something going wrong


Mine is good (Ins) if all electric and these heaters are also low watts (covered) They are not a fire hazard like a lot of the 1500 watt ones are. I am still covered on mobile home approved wood heat if I wanted it, but with mine and hubbys health, we just could not see doing the wood and pellets are high here if you get the good kind.

If being down in the 20's for most of the month of Nov. isn't cold, then tell me what is. We have been below freezing for most all of the late Oct/All Nov. so if they haven't gotten a work out, so far, I don't know what to tell you. We have maybe only had a couple nights above freezing and even a few days in the upper 40's. That is almost like our Januarys here,
Oh yes, I also have two big chest freezers, a desktop that is usually always on if I am up, 2 tv's that run for the most part every day I also cook with a portable glass top burner plate, a large countertop (portable oven) a crockpot and two instant pots (you CAN live without a stove/range). We were around the $180 mark last yr. same time and being at $108.40 this yr. tells me a lot! We even have the second freezer now
And as I posted before, all our pipes are elec. heat wrapped (my mobile home still has all its underside intact, no tears, rips or openings and well insulated, as are the walls) and for 12 yrs. now I never had to run water at night, PERIOD! They are no issue with that even when we have hit the teens.
ALSO, my roof is DOUBLE insulated now. I have an a-frame attached to the old roof which is your typical round over aluminum roof with an a-frame metal roof over that.
Could be why these little guys are doing a really good job of keeping us between 65 degrees and 72 degrees inside, so far it hasn't changed that range.

All I can truly say right now, is thank God, it's working and the electric bill is reasonable. Maybe with the price increases on everything now, it was not meant for us to run a 240 heat furnace. 
I couldn't imagine how much the 240 would be running us right now! The old one (and being older could have been part of it) would run us near $300 in Jan/Feb


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## fbelec (Nov 25, 2021)

if your old furnace is all electric and no compressor, oil or gas it will be more because of the duct losses so it's great that you are doing well


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## clancey (Nov 25, 2021)

Sounds like your doing great to me and keeping an eye on your money as well--great..clancey


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