# Too Many Coals???



## Happy Stacker (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi am new here but not new to burning with wood. This season I purchased a new air tight efficient stove to replace the old 1980's Smoke Dragon that served me well all these years. It is a Pleasant Hearth large stove rated for 2,200 square feet. Been a bit of a learning curve since controlling air combustion/damper is lot different than I I am used to with the Beast..may she Rest In Pieces..lol.

Been super cold all this week up here in Canada like much of the US with temps of -8 to -10F overnight with wind chill -18 to -25F so the stove has been going 24/7 all week. So here is my problem...While this is listed as a large stove it has a much smaller firebox 2.5 cubic feet. than my old one. I am thrilled with the 8-10 hr burn times but I have a 6-7 inch coal bed going on making adding more than 2 splits impossible.

My wood pile is mainly ash and oak as I like hardwoods with high heat values for the cold climate here. I am wondering if I am doing something wrong with air control maybe. I normally add wood to the coals and open air control fully and after 5-15 mins when the stack takes off I close it to about 3/4 open and then maybe an hr later close it to between 1/4 to 1/2 open.

So other than taking a bucket of coals and dumping them in the snow outside, does anyone have any advice?


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## Prof (Jan 6, 2018)

When you try to push a stove during these cold temps, it is easy for the bed of coals to get too deep (I am assuming that you don't have that bed of coals after 4 or 5 hours, which is when it would be about time to reload the stove under normal conditions). It may be worth trying to open the air up sooner in the burn cycle to help burn down the coals. I will also rake the coals forward and put a bit of kindling on top to move this process along. I also tend to shift to pine or hemlock during the day, as these burn faster and don't coal nearly as much as harwoods--then load up with hardwood overnight.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Jan 6, 2018)

Happy Stacker said:


> Hi am new here but not new to burning with wood. This season I purchased a new air tight efficient stove to replace the old 1980's Smoke Dragon that served me well all these years. It is a Pleasant Hearth large stove rated for 2,200 square feet. Been a bit of a learning curve since controlling air combustion/damper is lot different than I I am used to with the Beast..may she Rest In Pieces..lol.
> 
> Been super cold all this week up here in Canada like much of the US with temps of -8 to -10F overnight with wind chill -18 to -25F so the stove has been going 24/7 all week. So here is my problem...While this is listed as a large stove it has a much smaller firebox 2.5 cubic feet. than my old one. I am thrilled with the 8-10 hr burn times but I have a 6-7 inch coal bed going on making adding more than 2 splits impossible.
> 
> ...


You should open the air up after the flames go away.  That'll help burn the coals down.

There's a good chance your wood is still too high in moisture content. Been dealing with this for three years now myself. Unless it's been out of the elements for some time, it's probably too wet.

Split your wood a little smaller. Get as much inside and out of the elements as possible. These things will help.


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## 10-cc (Jan 6, 2018)

I have the same problem. During a cold spell, as we experimenting this week (-18°F) we tend to push the stove a little harder so as soon as no flames are present or almost we tend to add more wood, eventually creating a pile of coals and no more wood can be added.
First be patient and let the initial coals burn almost to the end (need a backup heating source during a cold spell) by raking them to the front and open up air supply.
Secondly, try to remove as much as possible hashes from the box before every reload as it will help the remaining coals to be reduced farther faster and burn the next load of wood easyer.


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## weatherguy (Jan 6, 2018)

You're not doing anything wrong, as the other posters have said wood with higher moisture content will coal, frequent loading and not letting a load burn all the way down. I used to buy a few packs of bio bricks and when I had a big coal build up I throw a couple bricks on top with the air wide open and burn it down that way and still get heat. Sometimes it took 2-3 times to get the coals down.


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 6, 2018)

Thanks for the quick replies...I will try opening up the air control sooner as flames die down. Wood moisture is not the issue as it is reading 15-20% with a meter. I think part of the problem is I am pushing the stove hard in this cold snap as I live in a very leaky 1890"s Victorian farmhouse with single pane glass and I assume little insulation in the walls. Things tend to cool off fast as the flames die down. It's about 62-63F in my living room right now where the stove is and 52F in my kitchen. Before this cold snap I was easily pushing 74-75F without this huge build up of coals.

This is the first time in 5 years I have had the oil furnace kick in as the thermostat is in the kitchen set to 50F. The upside is I have only burned about 1 1/2 bush cords this season where with the old stove I would be into the 3rd cord by now and typically averaged 4-5 cords per season using only wood heat. The old stove burned fast and furious and there was very little coal piles...mainly ash in the morning. The best thing about this new stove is I can finally see the flames as the old Smoke Dragon had solid double doors and liked to eat 2 foot logs all day long...lol


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## diverscale (Jan 6, 2018)

What I am doing right now when I have too much coal, I get some out, fill my metal bucket with them, and bring them on the concrete floor of my garage (separated), so the heat is at least not lost, prevent the electric heater from turning on for a few hours.

But right now I am in the same trouble, running my smaller stove to the max to combat the very cold temps. I sometimes crack the door open to burn up the coals faster too


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 6, 2018)

Well I don't have a garage to heat and bringing the coals in the barn to keep the chickens warm is probably not a good idea...lol
Cracking the door would certainly help but kinda defeats the purpose of having an airtight stove as you are just drawing warm room air into the stove and sending it up the chimney. My old stove was very good at doing that with the doors closed.


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## jetsam (Jan 6, 2018)

Lay in some softwood for next year. I have a ton of pine, so that's what I use.

Burn softwood for short hot burns and hardwood for long burns, and you should see your coaling problems greatly reduced. This last month has been so cold, I wish I'd brought in 2 cords of pine instead of 0.75.

If you already have a big firebox full of coal, I would split up some pine real small, rake the coals forward, and set the pine sticks on top of the coal heap. That burns the coal down much faster than just letting it burn, for me anyway.

If you're really stuck, scoop out the hot coals. You could fill up a galvanized metal trash can with an airtight lid, and use the charcoal to BBQ all summer.


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## diverscale (Jan 6, 2018)

jetsam said:


> If you're really stuck, scoop out the hot coals. You could fill up a galvanized metal trash can with an airtight lid, and use the charcoal to BBQ all summer.



have you actually tried this? Does it still give the same good flavor as the wood coal I buy from the hardware store?


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 6, 2018)

jetsam said:


> Lay in some softwood for next year. I have a ton of pine, so that's what I use.
> 
> Burn softwood for short hot burns and hardwood for long burns, and you should see your coaling problems greatly reduced. This last month has been so cold, I wish I'd brought in 2 cords of pine instead of 0.75.
> 
> ...


Personally I avoid burning softwoods in general around here. Wood is very expensive around my area...average is $400-500 CDN a bush cord plus 13% tax and then add another $50-$100 for delivery. At those prices I want the most heat value for my money. I actually lucked out a few years ago and met a tree arborist who cuts down 100's of ash tree's every year that the emerald  ash boring beetle is killing in my province. At $300 cash no tax and $30 delivery this my go to wood guy now.


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 6, 2018)

diverscale said:


> have you actually tried this? Does it still give the same good flavor as the wood coal I buy from the hardware store?


I have actually done this before with both hickory and apple wood before and trust me....it gives better flavour than the wood charcoal you can buy at the store.


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## diverscale (Jan 7, 2018)

Happy Stacker said:


> I have actually done this before with both hickory and apple wood before and trust me....it gives better flavour than the wood charcoal you can buy at the store.



Ok you really interest me there. I do charcoal all summer long, and go through lot of charcoal bags.

Is there a post of interest that gives more info about this? I googled and found nothing. Like, is a normal galvanised trash with the normal lid is enough or you specially have to build a -real- airtight lid? Is it still good if you burn a mix of different wood?   so much questions haha


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 7, 2018)

diverscale said:


> Ok you really interest me there. I do charcoal all summer long, and go through lot of charcoal bags.
> 
> Is there a post of interest that gives more info about this? I googled and found nothing. Like, is a normal galvanised trash with the normal lid is enough or you specially have to build a -real- airtight lid? Is it still good if you burn a mix of different wood?   so much questions haha


I used a similar method to this not actually the actual coals from the stove. Stuffed my splits tight in a stainless steel stove pipe sealed both ends and the pipe has a small vent hole. Then put the tube in the wood stove and let it burn about 3 hrs until the flame is blue coming out the vent hole. I actually buried mine in a hole in the ground covered with dirt and dug it up the next day. I think if you used a garbage can you would need an airtight seal to starve the oxygen from getting in. Here is a link I found on You Tube...


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## diverscale (Jan 7, 2018)

Happy Stacker said:


> I used a similar method to this not actually the actual coals from the stove. Stuffed my splits tight in a stainless steel stove pipe sealed both ends and the pipe has a small vent hole. Then put the tube in the wood stove and let it burn about 3 hrs until the flame is blue coming out the vent hole. I actually buried mine in a hole in the ground covered with dirt and dug it up the next day. I think if you used a garbage can you would need an airtight seal to starve the oxygen from getting in. Here is a link I found on You Tube...




pretty good info. I'll do try with some charcoal directly from the stove out of curiosity too, to see if that would be possible. I guess the taste would be much milder


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 7, 2018)

diverscale said:


> pretty good info. I'll do try with some charcoal directly from the stove out of curiosity too, to see if that would be possible. I guess the taste would be much milder


The lump hardwood charcoal I buy at the store is made from oak. I would think the coal you pull out from the stove if you are burning oak would be the same as the flavour they would impart to meat on the BBQ. I am also curious to try this but will fill my stove tube and think of another way to deprive it of oxygen as the ground is kinda frozen and covered with too much snow to bury it...lol


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## jetsam (Jan 7, 2018)

I have made grilling fires from stove coal (which would be mixed oak and maple in my case). I didn't really think it imparted a flavor, but it also didn't taste like lighter fluid/kerosene.

The downside is that small coals have less airspace between them than big coals, so the fire is more annoying to start and keep going than it would be if you used briquettes from the store.  Obviously you could choose to take huge coals out of the stove, and sieve out the little stuff before use... I haven't tried that.

We do have a local expert though... @Poindexter  ! Charcoal question!

(As for a special lid, I know my normal cheap galvanized coal bucket does fine. Its lid fits tightly enough that you have to push it down a little, so it's 'airtight' enough to stop the coals inside from smoldering down.)

I never tried to make charcoal for grilling; I just had a leftover bucketful of small coals this summer snd thought 'Why not?'.


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 7, 2018)

I did a search on this site and there are a lot of posts on the exact same problem I was having. Some of these discussions going back to 2008. So obviously this is an ongoing problem for many and just as many solutions offered. Rake the coals forward and put a small split on...rake the coals to each side forming a trough in the center and place a split  over the trough...rake the coals forward and open the door...rake the coals to the middle and place a split on each side and 1 at the back...take chopped onion, bell peppers, mushrooms, cubed steak and mini potatoes an garlic wrapped in tin foil and place on hot coals, wait 20 mins and serve with a nice merlot...lol

While the last option looked tempting, here is what I ended up doing. While I don't recommend this to a novice wood burner, if you are careful and proceed slowly you can reduce your entire bed of red hot coals to mainly ash and some embers in about an hour. This only works if you have an ash cleanout located on the floor of your stove covered by a firebrick and ash pan below that. 1) I fully closed the main air supply then I piled all the red coals in back right corner of stove which was not easy as I already was dealing with a 6-7 inch layer of hot coals. Basically I was trying to clear enough room to access the firebrick covering the ash clean out hole at the front left corner of the stove. I lifted the brick slightly and wedged it so there was very little air being drawn in. If you pull the brick entirely out the volume of air being sucked in will be creating a blast furnace effect with temps way too high for your stove to handle..I am talking of warped burn tubes and baffle plates and metal glowing cherry red. 2) About 15-20 mins later I could see the red coals now had a good layer of ash on them so I pulled the brick further out exposing about half of the opening. You could immediately see the coals begin to glow again under the layer of ash that had formed but I did not disturb them. About 20 mins later the coal pile had been reduced to half the amount they were. 3) I now removed the firebrick completely and using a poker poked some holes in the coal pile but not disturbing it completely. 4) after another 20 mins passed I was left with basically a few coals and a lot of ash. I shovelled as much ash and embers into the ash cleanout hole as I could fit and replaced the firebrick. I was still able to shovel out another full load of ash and embers into my steel ash pail which I took outside and then also removed the ash pan and emptied outside in a metal trash can sitting on snow covered driveway not wood.

I had a few hot coals and a thin layer of ash left and although I did have to rekindle to get the fire going I am happy with the results of how fast I was able to burn off the huge pile of coals I had. Again this is not for a wood burning newbie and you have to monitor the entire process and I kept a fire extinguisher handy in case things got out of hand.


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## Charles1981 (Jan 7, 2018)

If I get a big bed of coals... I just check back in a few hours and maybe open the air a little? Maybe it's because it's a cast iron stove? I don't see the problem with coals. Stove is still got. Coals take a while to burn down. I seem to get more heat if i get a big old bed of coals...

I didn't realise this was a problem? Do you have coals that won't burn down? Do you have coals and the stove isn't putting out heat? Sorry I just don't understand why everyone sees this as a problem?


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## Happy Stacker (Jan 7, 2018)

Charles1981 said:


> If I get a big bed of coals... I just check back in a few hours and maybe open the air a little? Maybe it's because it's a cast iron stove? I don't see the problem with coals. Stove is still got. Coals take a while to burn down. I seem to get more heat if i get a big old bed of coals...
> 
> I didn't realise this was a problem? Do you have coals that won't burn down? Do you have coals and the stove isn't putting out heat? Sorry I just don't understand why everyone sees this as a problem?


No it is a plate steel stove and the problem is when I have a 7 inch coal bed I don't have 3-4 hrs to wait so I can get more than 2 splits of wood in. When the living rooms drops to 50F from 65-70F my girlfriend tends to get a little cranky...


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## jetsam (Jan 7, 2018)

Charles1981 said:


> If I get a big bed of coals... I just check back in a few hours and maybe open the air a little? Maybe it's because it's a cast iron stove? I don't see the problem with coals. Stove is still got. Coals take a while to burn down. I seem to get more heat if i get a big old bed of coals...
> 
> I didn't realise this was a problem? Do you have coals that won't burn down? Do you have coals and the stove isn't putting out heat? Sorry I just don't understand why everyone sees this as a problem?



New stoves get half their heat output from reburn systems. This strength is problem when you're trying to push a stove hard and burning hardwood- after a few very hot loads, you're left with a ton of red hot wood that is done offgassing. At some point the volume of hot coals really limits the amount of wood you can put into the firebox. Now you either have to accept the downshift to old-stove performance (just let it burn down) or take active measures (coal raking, small softwood splits on the coals, throw out the coals, etc.)

There's a sudden spate of people talking about this because we've had several weeks of much colder than usual temperatures in the midwest and east coast. Many people are suddenly finding that the stove that was always big enough before is now a little undersized- so they run it harder than they ever have before, and encounter Coal Mountain.


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## venator260 (Jan 7, 2018)

Yep, I had that problem all of last year.

My old stove, a wood coal combo unit, would keep the basement and the 1400 square feet above it warm, but only if I reloaded it 6-7 times a day. Then I got my 30nc. More heat per stick of wood, but 4 reloads is about the max I can do under any circumstances, so it wasn't pushing as much heat as the old stove and left me with coal mountain. I had considered either adding additional air inlets or doing something with the ash pan inlet to bring more air in at the end of the cycle.

I may try happy stackers method on a load this year during the next cold snap, just to see if I can push the 30 harder (which would be a good skill, should I lose electricity). It's set to warm up here, and it seems in temps over about 25 degrees, running both stoves becomes overkill. I'll have to wait till the next cold snap to try it.


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## Poindexter (Jan 8, 2018)

@Happy Stacker , I have indeed fooled with charcoal a little bit.  You might could BBQ with what you got, I would make that my third priority.

Your burning down method sounds a little exciting, but effective.  

Alternatively, you could just shovel out a bunch of coals to make room for wood, and toss the hot coals out in the snow.  Come spring, pick up the now cold charcoal as it sticks out of the melting snow into a wheel barrow.  Once you have a good load in the barrow, work it over a little bit with a hammer or big stick.  I use a piece of 4x4 about 3 feet long, maybe a one meter long piece of 10x10cm landscaping timber.

Big pieces go on the wood pile top covered, should dry back out in one season for the out door fire pit.  Once dried back out you could put them back in the stove for a second chance at ultimate glory, but they are going to shed black powdery mess everywhere they go.

With the dust and small pieces in the barrow you got soil amendment, good stuff.   Good charcoal is sort like a sponge, only really small pores.  If you got a compost heap or garden, put it in.  If you don't, spread the dust on the grass out by the street and work your way across the front yard.  The bigger pieces scatter along your fence line and then hit them with your lawn mower later in the spring while the power mower outlet is pointed at the house.  You'll need a shower after that first go round, but your lawn won't need watered as often.  If you got berry bushes or rose bushes, scatter the charcoal dust liberally there.

So 1. fire pit, 2. compost heap, 3. lawn

If you really want to you can likely use at least the oak chunks in your BBQ cooker.  I have never tried to BBQ with ash wood or ash charcoal, I got nothing on that one.

Complete charcoal should be pure carbon, no sap or flavor left in it and it shouldn't matter if the source wood was mesquite, or balsa, or oak or anything else, just carbon, heat no flavor.

I have seen bags at the grocery store of "mesquite flavored charcoal."  I have never tried it, don't use much mesquite.  My guess is those chunks are incompletely converted mesquite, mostly charcoal but with some sap still in it, like they took the retort off the heat before the flame died down completely.

My first charcoal retort was a quart paint jar from Lowes-Depot, smacked some holes in the lid with a screwdriver, open hearth fire place.  I have fooled with it quite a bit.  I have given up on making BBQ grade charcoal.  I use a lot of it, it is time intensive for me to make and the factory hardwood lump is pretty good quality given the price point.

I did build a stick burning pit this year.  Holy cow.  Fooling around with boutique chunks of wood on a charcoal fire is like wearing mittens, stick burning (all wood, no charcoal) is like wearing gloves. 

If you really want to BBQ with some of your coals I would suggest running a few loads of oak only and sequestering those coals from the mixed ash/oak since ash is an unknown.  Come summer, mix your recovered oak coals about 1:2 or 1:3 with commercial charcoal and see what you get on hamburgers or other inexpensive cuts.  I really like white oak for smoking beef when I can get it, red oak does nothing for me on beef or pork or chicken, never tried oak on salmon.

Who knows, maybe ash wood smoking chunks will be the next big thing.


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## BenTN (Jan 8, 2018)

I have cooked a brisket entirely with ash wood. Turned out great. Almost prefer it to the white oak i normally use. 

@Poindexter you got pics of your pits on the forum? 

Sorry for the hijack


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## venator260 (Feb 26, 2018)

Little bit of thread necromancy here, but I tried out Happy stackers method. Worked pretty well. 

Ive been burning my basement stove to dry it out down there adter grtting pounded with rain.

I came home to 6-8 inches of dormant coals in the bottom of my stove. What seemed to work is to push them all to the back, then pick up the clean out plug and then turn it so that the cleats are on top of the firebrick instead of down inside the cavity where they are normally. Then I raked the coals over top of this and shut the door. I monitored the temps of course, and at one point i got a stt of about 675. I also got some good heat and burned down my coal load in a hurry. 

As has been said here, be sure to watch your stove if your going to attempt this, but for.me, it greatly expedited burning down the bed. I got down to about a 2 inch layer, greatly increasing the size of the next load.


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## venator260 (Feb 26, 2018)

It also bears mentioning, be absolutely sure your ash plug is secure before loading the stove back up.


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## Zack R (Feb 27, 2018)

I've had the same issue recently due to the cold temps (-4F this morning, -11F a few days ago) and pushing the stove harder. 

Open up the air control and let them burn down to ash before the next reload. You'll lose max heat output for a few hours but can catch up with a full load once there is room for it in the firebox.


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