# minisplit ductless heat pump



## Highbeam (Feb 6, 2013)

Turns out that my utility company will give me a 1200$ rebate for installing one of these. They are ugly but I can see no cheaper way to heat my home when wood heat is unavailable.

So in general, how low from a flat ceiling must the indoor unit set? Higher is better since I want to put something under it like a piece of furniture to try and minimize the visual impact. Is there also a limit to how close something like furniure can be to the bottom?

The indoor unit will be on an interior 2x4 wall. Does the lineset fit/fold up inside the 3.5" cavity or must it poke into the room behind? Do you drill holes into the top of the wall and pass the lineset into the attic? Finally, does the lineset exit the indoor unit from the left or right and is this switchable?

I'll be installing a single 2 ton unit for whole house heating since buying a handful of smaller units seems significantly more complicated and expensive. The smaller units are typically more efficient but only slightly. I am finding that the Fujitsu units (my preference) are rated for heat down to 0 degrees which means that I won't need a backup to this "primary" heat and I can remove some of those wall heaters.

They are ugly like a blaze king but the minisplits are superior performers.


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## begreen (Feb 6, 2013)

The Fujitsu 2 ton unit is a good one. Mitsubishi Hyper Heat H2i inverter units are rated to work below 0. They're worth researching also. You can mount the head units high enough to clear furniture. Most of the units I have seen are at about the 5-6' level. In warmer climates they are often put at just below ceiling level for better cooling performance. Mitsubishi also makes a floor cabinet head unit if that is preferable.

One head unit is rarely enough for even house heat. I would plan on at least 2 head units. Get multiple estimates from experienced professional installers that knows these units and have installed many. You might be surprised at the range in quotes. Get references and take the time to look at a couple of each bidder's installations. Workmanship can vary a lot from company to company.


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## Highbeam (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't intend to hire this out. That never works as well as doing it myself and since this tech is so new, there are no experienced techs anyway. The professional will come to do the final charge and hookup though and to check for mistakes. I have a woodstove that heats the whole home very well so a mini in the same room should perform similarly.

There are a few alternative indoor units but the price gets very high very fast so a standard wall unit is the best way to go currently.

A simple single unit on an interior wall. I can always add another. They are significantly cheaper purchased separately than as a multihead system.


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## begreen (Feb 6, 2013)

Will PSE cover a self install? As far as experience, I would ask. Locally we have a fellow that has installed at least a dozen of these units a year since about 2008, even more recently. It doesn't cost anything to get an estimate and could be a learning experience. After a few estimates you should have a better idea of whether your plan will work, or not. Ask how long they have been installing these systems. The outdoor unit should be designed for multihead from the beginning. Do it right the first time and you won't need to add another complete second system. If you do self install be extra careful about keeping the lines clean, dry and kink free. I would not run them in a wall for risk of condensation drips causing rot. They make finishing covers to neaten the insulated lines.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 6, 2013)

Is there an upstairs?  Having A/C as well as heat would be nice.


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## Highbeam (Feb 6, 2013)

Yes, PSE covers self install. They actually identify how to get the refund if you self install. I was surprised at this since they seem to like to have some professional verfication that you actually installed the equipment. No mention of a permit either.

The multiheads are very non-cost-effective. It is cheaper to install several single heads and when done this way, if there is a failure of one of the units the other ones will remain in service. Even if the price is the same it is wise to install several small systems. Efficiency is higher as well. I'll look into the Mitsubishi units too, haven't researched them yet.

I do like your idea of getting some quotes. Nothing to lose. I am too particular about things being done properly and cleanly to have a tech do it unless I can be certain of their skill.

Single story house that has never had or really needed A/C but all of these minisplits that provide heat will also provide cooling.

I would only run the lines within the wall between the unit and the crawlspace or the attic and then exposed all the way to the outdoor unit. Do the lines exit from the left or right side of the indoor unit?


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## velvetfoot (Feb 6, 2013)

I'll be interested in how your project turns out.


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## Retired Guy (Feb 7, 2013)

These ave a different look.

http://www.lg-dfs.com/art-cool-gallery-inverter.aspx


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## Highbeam (Feb 7, 2013)

After reading a few installation manuals I am finding that these things are really meant to be installed on exterior walls with the linesets immediately pushed to the exterior. What an ugly concept to have the lines scabbed onto the outside of your home even if they are "covered" with plastic gutter looking channels. The indoor units can be mounted within 3-4" of the ceiling and only 8" from the sidewall so you can tuck these into tight spots. It also looks like the standard lineset from the indoor unit exits to the right when you are standing in front of it but with effort can be moved to other locations.

Goes to show you, this technology is very green, and young. Almost nobody on this site has even seen one installed.

Best thing for me now is to have a contractor come out for an estimate which is really when I pick his brain about these things.


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## Retired Guy (Feb 7, 2013)

Neighbor put one in to an unheated room addition that he used to close off in the winter. Installer said he was ok for heat down to 5 degrees F.


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## woodgeek (Feb 7, 2013)

Highbeam, did you calculate how low a temp a 2-ton unit will carry you?


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## RustyShackleford (Feb 8, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> After reading a few installation manuals I am finding that these things are really meant to be installed on exterior walls with the linesets immediately pushed to the exterior ...


I agree with you about the manuals, but my guy says interior wall is fine and yes the lineset easily fits in a 2x4 stud wall (we're midway through installation). You also need a condensate drain and the (for my unit, at least) stranded 4-conductor plus ground to connect the indoor unit (which is powered and controlled from the outdoor unit).

My guy also believes Fujitsu (which I'm using) and one other (which I can't recall, Mitsubishi maybe) are the best. I'm adding a 1-ton (aka. 12Kbtu/hr) one for a small addition, in lieu of extending the ductwork from my old inefficient dual-fuel heat-pump system. I consider it a down payment on replacing the whole house's HVAC, and in mild weather I'm hoping it can mostly handle the whole house, with a transfer duct to cycle air from the rest of the house through the addition room. My data says the single units are a LOT more efficient than the multi-zoners, so I'll be tempted to go with a couple of singles when the time comes. But who knows what the HVAC landscape will look like then.


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## tbuff (Feb 8, 2013)

There are evap unit options out that aren't as "box on the wall" type. Also, if doing the install yourself, and if not experienced HVAC tech, I'd recommend trying to find out which manufacturers use a pre-charged compression fitting lineset. May be a little more money, but saves some labor. What SEER are they telling you that you need to install to meet the rebate?


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## RustyShackleford (Feb 8, 2013)

tbuff said:


> ... which manufacturers use a pre-charged compression fitting lineset. May be a little more money, but saves some labor.


My Fujitsu (12 RLS2 series) comes with the outdoor unit precharged, so when you connect the lineset, it breaks some sort of seal and charges the whole system. At least I think that's what my guy said. If the lineset is over a certain length, you have to add refrigerant (but it's more than 30ft IIRC).


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## tbuff (Feb 8, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> My Fujitsu (12 RLS2 series) comes with the outdoor unit precharged, so when you connect the lineset, it breaks some sort of seal and charges the whole system. At least I think that's what my guy said. If the lineset is over a certain length, you have to add refrigerant (but it's more than 30ft IIRC).


 
Is it R-22 or R-410a?


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## velvetfoot (Feb 8, 2013)

What's the diff?


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## tbuff (Feb 8, 2013)

Different refrigerant or as most call it "freon"  used. There was a big push for 410a a few years ago to the point where they stopped producing 22 equipment.  Then companies kind of found a loop hole, if you make the equipment but just don't ship it or sell it with the refrigerant in it, its ok. I personally like R22, easier to work with a little more forgiving so to speak when it comes to pressures and oils used etc...


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## Highbeam (Feb 9, 2013)

The required seer was so easy to meet that any mainstream brand would do it, reminds me of the woodstove efficiency requirements. It does have to be an inverter unit. The power company also has a sizing guide on their site so you can enter your home's information and it spits out the required tonnage. It said I need a 2 ton unit to carry the house into the low teens. The better brands of mini split claim "full" output well into the single digits.I haven't seen any of these newer units using anything but r410a which is fine with me.

Rusty, please post up a thread with installation photos for us all.


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## tbuff (Feb 9, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> The required seer was so easy to meet that any mainstream brand would do it, reminds me of the woodstove efficiency requirements. It does have to be an inverter unit. The power company also has a sizing guide on their site so you can enter your home's information and it spits out the required tonnage. It said I need a 2 ton unit to carry the house into the low teens. The better brands of mini split claim "full" output well into the single digits.I haven't seen any of these newer units using anything but r410a which is fine with me.
> 
> Rusty, please post up a thread with installation photos for us all.



Does the calculations on their site account for window quality/quantity, insulation, basement/crawl/slab, etc? If so, it definitely something you can handle with patience and a little bit of guidance. Be very careful with anything with 410a, were talking a normal operating hp line of around 500 as opposed to 22 with it around 200. Good luck and feel free to pm me if you are stumped.


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## Highbeam (Feb 9, 2013)

tbuff said:


> Does the calculations on their site account for window quality/quantity, insulation, basement/crawl/slab, etc? If so, it definitely something you can handle with patience and a little bit of guidance. Be very careful with anything with 410a, were talking a normal operating hp line of around 500 as opposed to 22 with it around 200. Good luck and feel free to pm me if you are stumped.


 
Thanks tom. I'm a ways from buying right now. The calc required me to input all the things you list. If anything I'd say a bit more btu would be needed but that is fine.


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## Highbeam (Feb 11, 2013)

Piece of cake to put these things on a 2x4 wall. This is an LG on an exterior wall but he wanted to hide the lineset within the 2x4 wall. Condensate drainage will always be an issue and a pump will be needed for my interior wall locations.

Stupid system won't let me upload the photo. I'll try some other methods. Apparently, Hearth doesn't like bmp files. Anyway....


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## pen (Feb 11, 2013)

Started using the Mitsu Hyperheat unit in the beginning of July and love the thing. Sips electric and was cranking out heat like crazy when I tested it below 0 a few weeks back. Unit is rated to keep putting out 80% of it's heat down to -13F. Mine is rated 18k btu cooling, and about 22k heating. I believe this is the same thing http://www.homeenergyproducts.net/files/18k_hyper_heat.pdf

Really impressed so far with one exception. The automatic fan doesn't run fast enough and temps drop below the set level for heating, and above the set level for cooling, if I keep it in auto.

pen


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## begreen (Feb 12, 2013)

tbuff said:


> Does the calculations on their site account for window quality/quantity, insulation, basement/crawl/slab, etc? If so, it definitely something you can handle with patience and a little bit of guidance. Be very careful with anything with 410a, were talking a normal operating hp line of around 500 as opposed to 22 with it around 200. Good luck and feel free to pm me if you are stumped.


 
Our 3 ton system is R410. Not a big deal according to our installer. It's a full split American Standard system that has been running fine for 6 yrs. now. I wanted to install a mini-split system back then but they were too new to our area and hard to get. However I did get my installer investigating them and he started installing them a couple years later. Now that is almost all he installs.

Pen, our installer started using the Mitusbishi HyperHeat units about a year ago locally. They are awesome in our climate. Good to hear that yours is working out well for you. Mitsubishi, Fujitsu and Daikin are the most common mini-split units installed here.


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## peakbagger (Feb 12, 2013)

There are systems that are represented to be self installable but good luck if they ever stop running and you need waranty service. Most sets ship with the outside unit precharged so when you hook up the line set and open a valve they will usually work as long as the line set length isnt longer than their specs. Unfortunately this gets some moisture into the refrigerant unless you first pump down the line set with a vacuum pump. The other reason for pumping the line set down is that you can find slow leaks. The unit may run for a short time with a slow leak but not for long.


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## Highbeam (Feb 12, 2013)

Either way, a monkey will install it and an experienced monkey will check and charge.


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## brogsie (Feb 15, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Either way, a monkey will install it and an experienced monkey will check and charge.


 Highbeam,
I just installed a Fujitsu 18,000 with a 9,000 and a 7,000 inverters. I'm a general contractor so I have all tools and experience for most of the install. I ran the line sets, drain lines and the wiring between outside and inside units. Had my electrician tie into the panel. Had HVAC contractor do the line set connections and start up. Pretty easy to do even the electric and HVAC is easy. I didn't have the tool to vacuum out the line sets. The heating is great and seems pretty economical so far. I put the interior units on inside walls down to the basement to outside. It's very quiet and not so bad looking. I found a site that was helpful. I will pass it on..


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## brogsie (Feb 15, 2013)

This guy is pretty good

http://blog.energysmiths.com/2011/12/a-year-with-a-minisplit-heat-pump.html


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## brogsie (Feb 15, 2013)

brogsie said:


> This guy is pretty good
> 
> http://blog.energysmiths.com/2011/12/a-year-with-a-minisplit-heat-pump.html


 And a good video


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## baratta930 (Feb 15, 2013)

I bought a Klimaire inverter based unit (from heatandcool.com) for a studio I built for my wife. I partially installed it myself and then had a local hvac company do the final.  It's a gimmick because they sell them as complete self install kits but no warranty if you self install them ... they did say that if the HVAC guys did the final hook ups and "approved" the install then it would have full warranty.

It's a really nice unit and came well packaged.  The copper lines are a little thin but no worse than the name brand units (according to the HVAC guys).  It's supposed to work down to 5 deg F, I haven't tested that but it has worked well into the low teens without issue.  It barely runs to heat the space (the inverter tech is pretty nice but I don't know if it's worth the price difference).  The space has 3 inches of closed cell foam in the walls, with more in the ceiling and an insulated slab so it really doesn't take much to heat the space.

The Klimaire units are from China and apparently they make some of the Japanese models now.  I have family in Montreal, Canada that has used Klimaire for years without issue.  I figure if it's good enough for Canadian winters, it's good enough for me 

Hope this helps ...

Berardino


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 24, 2013)

Interesting..I wish we would get rebates for stuff like that around here.


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## pen (Feb 24, 2013)

Just received confirmation this week from our electric company that we would should be looking for the $400 rebate check in the mail any day. Filled the paperwork out with them in July, guess they weren't real anxious to pay.

Our Jan and Feb electric bill average out to 139 dollars each month. I have kept the heat pump at about 65 degrees full time, and bumped it up when things were really cold and the wood stove couldn't keep up w/out having to be run full boar so that the house stayed at 68.

Had I run one 6 foot electric baseboard at about 1/3 as supplement for 1 week each month (which I used to do in the coldest weather), our electric bill would have been higher.

So far, I'm impressed with everything except for the automatic fan (but I think I mentioned that already).

In all, I figure it's been costing us about 12 dollars a month for Dec, Jan, and Feb and cost us about 15 a month in July and August last summer. Small price to pay for what I've been getting.

pen


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## begreen (Feb 24, 2013)

Awesome pen! That's better than I expected for your climate zone. Thanks for the update.


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## pen (Feb 24, 2013)

begreen said:


> Awesome pen! That's better than I expected for your climate zone. Thanks for the update.


 
I'm extremely happy.  The house is warmer than it's ever been on average on the winter, and it's costing us less than it used to monthly.  The wood stove caries the vast majority of the load but it can't warm the house up from 60 as quick as the fisher could so I try not to let it get that cold and supplement when real winter sets in.  At such a small amount of cost, and being less than what I used to pay to supplement at a lower average temp, I couldn't be more pleased.

In the summer, our house never used to be cooled and would simply get miserable/unbearable.  Now, part of the reason it's only costing 15 bux to cool the house is that while the heat pump is running and obviously cooling, it's removing the moisture from the air and the dehumidifier in the basement is hardly running at all, where it used to run solid all summer long, just adding to the heat problem.

For us, it was a perfect fit.

pen


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## Highbeam (Feb 25, 2013)

begreen said:


> Awesome pen! That's better than I expected for your climate zone. Thanks for the update.



To be fair, I am currently spending nothing on my mini split. Both Pen and I burn wood for heat. If Pen was using the mini for full heating then it would of course be higher.

Gotta admit, the cooling would be nice for about a week in the summer.


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## begreen (Feb 27, 2013)

I think you will find the cost of running that unit will be surprisingly low. Have a friend down the road that I recommended getting a mini-split system. He ended up with a Fujitsu 3 ton with 2 head units. He is almost out of wood this year and running about 80% on the Fujitsu with the house at 70. He only lights fires on some weekends. His 1900 sq ft house is leaky and has giant windows facing north. So far the worst monthly electric bill was about $140. He has to buy his wood. At local price of $250/cord, that is much cheaper than wood heating for him. Needless to say, he loves it.


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## Highbeam (Feb 27, 2013)

That is awesome. We had a decent cold snap this year too.


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## pen (Feb 27, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> That is awesome. We had a decent cold snap this year too.


 
On two nights we went below 0by a few degrees I did a small fire, just enough to still have a few coals in the morning for the overnight load and set the heat pump to 69 to see what it could do.  Woke up to a 69 degree house.  By early morning, the heat pump would have been carrying the vast majority of the load.

I was very impressed. 

pen


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## semipro (Feb 27, 2013)

So what is it about mini-splits that makes them so darned efficient when compared to standard central HVAC systems? 
The rave reviews here and elsewhere have me considering installing one in our master bed/bath area.  We can handle the temp extremes elsewhere in the house.


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## Highbeam (Feb 27, 2013)

One thing is the variable speed inverter motors. A regular heat pump is usually one or two speeds so it is generally working too hard where the variable speed can constantly run at the proper output to maintain a temperature. Think of it like city driving vs. freeway driving and the mpg effects on your car.

The other is duct losses. Your central system loses 15-30% of the energy through duct losses.

I think that the manufacturers of the central units should be ashamed of themselves for not making improvements to the evaporator/condensor/blower that fully utilize the improvements that the minisplit market has pioneered. Duct losses are not their fault.


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## woodgeek (Feb 27, 2013)

Highbeam is right.....the major thing is variable speed. Duct losses are avoidable with conventional split systems (but often are a problem anyway). The blower on my split ASHP uses 500W...all that ends up as heat in my conditioned space, but it reduces COP by 10% or so.

One other thing is defrost....the mini's don't call a honking big resistive element during defrost, and (I think) many have smarter defrost controls. The way mine (non-mini) was set up, the defrost was killing the COP, from 2.7 to ~1.6 at temps near freezing. I rejiggered the control myself, and got it back to 2.2-2.3.


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## semipro (Feb 27, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Highbeam is right.....the major thing is variable speed. Duct losses are avoidable with conventional split systems (but often are a problem anyway). The blower on my split ASHP uses 500W...all that ends up as heat in my conditioned space, but it reduces COP by 10% or so.
> 
> One other thing is defrost....the mini's don't call a honking big resistive element during defrost, and (I think) many have smarter defrost controls. The way mine was set up, the defrost was killing the COP, from 2.7 to ~1.6 at temps near freezing. I rejiggered the control myself, and got it back to 2.2-2.3.


I think I recall someone reporting that the defrost mode on their mini-split was just the system running in cooling mode for a short time.


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## RustyShackleford (Feb 28, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Duct losses are avoidable with conventional split systems ...


How's that ? You mean by obsessively careful attention to sealing with mastic etc ? Even so, the insulation on flexduct ain't that great, plus it seems to be compomised a lot by being compressed in bends and by hanging materials. I think the only way to really minimize the losses is with the encapsulated crawlspace approach - so the temperature on the outside of the ductwork is much higher - and that seems to be one of the most compelling reasons (for closed crawlspace).


> The way mine was set up, the defrost was killing the COP, from 2.7 to ~1.6 at temps near freezing. I rejiggered the control myself, and got it back to 2.2-2.3.


You're empirically measuring your COP ?!? Cool-o. How ? I'd love to do that.


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## begreen (Feb 28, 2013)

Great duct sealing, good trunk ducts and plenum insulation and high grade flex duct insulation all help, a lot. This can be measured by checking the heat loss. Compare the temp at the plenum or closest outlet vs the farthest run. Ours used to be be horrendous. Now it is pretty good, though I don't remember the numbers. Running the ductwork through a conditioned space also helps keep duct loss down.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 28, 2013)

Carrier has the Infinity with Greenspeed:  http://www.carrier.com/homecomfort/...roducts_of_2012_by_greenbuilder_magazine.aspx


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## woodgeek (Mar 1, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> How's that ? You mean by obsessively careful attention to sealing with mastic etc ? Even so, the insulation on flexduct ain't that great, plus it seems to be compomised a lot by being compressed in bends and by hanging materials. I think the only way to really minimize the losses is with the encapsulated crawlspace approach - so the temperature on the outside of the ductwork is much higher - and that seems to be one of the most compelling reasons (for closed crawlspace).


 
As BG said, with short R-8 flex, thick FG blankets over the trunks, and careful airsealing (a PITA) duct losses (conduction and leakage) can be <=5%. Not a deal breaker.



RustyShackleford said:


> You're empirically measuring your COP ?!? Cool-o. How ? I'd love to do that.


 
running geek flag up pole.....

If you know your BTU/h load versus outdoor temp, and log your HP run hours, you can estimate its BTU output per hour at different temps. If you measure its power consumption (e.g. with a home energy monitor), you can compute your COP from (kBTU/kWh)/3.414. Quite tedious, but if you are logging the data anyways, not that hard to sit down and bang out. You need to use a second heater (e.g. resistive aux) with known output to get BTU loads. Switching to aux (emergency mode) for a few selected days to get data costs money.

In practice, I do it the other way.... The module COP, BTU and kW versus outdoor temp are tabulated by the mfr, (using an ASHRAE standard test regimen). You can also check the kW in the table and for the blower while you are at it. The table does NOT include blower power in the kW or those BTUs, as far as I can tell. On a spreadsheet, you can predict HP run hours versus outdoor temp from the tabulated BTU numbers, and the daily run hour log matches the model when defrost is not active. Data is noisy, you need to throw out very windy days, etc, but the model matches.

During typical 'dry' defrost conditions, the unit runs ~18% more than the model prediction, suggesting COP is reduced by 1-1/1.18 = 15%. Under 'heavy frost' or wet snow conditions, it has to run close to 50% more, suggesting a 33% reduction in COP. Before I rejiggered the defrost control, the COP hit was closer to 40% under dry conditions! At 30°F and dry, I would have had COP=1.5 as installed. Now it is 2.1-2.2 or so.


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## RustyShackleford (Mar 1, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> As BG said, with short R-8 flex, thick FG blankets over the trunks, and careful airsealing (a PITA) duct losses (conduction and leakage) can be <=5%. Not a deal breaker.


Ah well, I'm going with encapsulated crawlspace, for a variety of reasons. Chief might be moisture, here in this sub-tropical southern climate. I reckon the area of my foundation wall perimeter is about half my floor area, so with half the R-value, it's about break even. But then the obviation of duct losses is a big plus on top of that. Of course, the big unknown is that the crawlspace floor is now part of the insulation envelope. A huge plus in the summer I'm sure; dunno about winter, but summer is a bigger deal here anyhow. Mainly, I like the idea of being able to crawl around down there without fiberglass drooping on me and being able to see all the mechanicals clearly  But I guess this is really all for another existing thread ..





> running geek flag up pole.....


Damn, and I thought *I* was a geek.    I'd love to try some of this.    I like the idea of getting the btu/hr per degreeF empirically with some kind of aux heat.   But my aux heat is propane, so pretty hard to measure the consumption of that, over a day'ish-long test period, with necessary accuracy.
You talk about versus outdoor-temp, but shouldn't btu/hr per degreeF be more or less independent of outdoor temp ?    I guess you mean HP performance depends on outdoor temp.


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## woodgeek (Mar 1, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> You talk about versus outdoor-temp, but shouldn't btu/hr per degreeF be more or less independent of outdoor temp ? I guess you mean HP performance depends on outdoor temp.


 
Yep.


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## woodgeek (Mar 2, 2013)

RustyShackleford said:


> But my aux heat is propane, so pretty hard to measure the consumption of that, over a day'ish-long test period, with necessary accuracy.


 
You could buy a run hour timer, and attach it across blower...


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## velvetfoot (Mar 2, 2013)

It doesn't apply to me because I have a single stage oil boiler, but, my new thermostat (that I'm still playing with)can apparently track the run times of the different stages of heating and cooling.  You can either view it on a built in chart or download the data.  The analyzing stuff they call Home IQ resides on the company's server.  http://www.ecobee.com/solutions/home/smart-si/


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## woodgeek (Mar 2, 2013)

velvetfoot said:


> It doesn't apply to me because I have a single stage oil boiler, but, my new thermostat (that I'm still playing with)can apparently track the run times of the different stages of heating and cooling. You can either view it on a built in chart or download the data. The analyzing stuff they call Home IQ resides on the company's server. http://www.ecobee.com/solutions/home/smart-si/


 
You are tempting me to switch out my nest for the EcoBee.  Both multistage control and logging stink on the Nest.


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## begreen (Mar 3, 2013)

They have some undefined terminals like input 1 and 2. Our system has an outdoor thermocouple so that the heatpump cycle and system speed can be tailored by the difference between the exterior in indoor temp. This function appears to be lacking or did I miss it?


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 7, 2013)

We're still considering this for our Old House, leaving the two DV stoves in place as secondary heat (or primary depending on the tenants choice).  I'm still concerned about cost though...

Actually, we're thinking of putting a two head unit here at the Cottage too.  Cost is still a concern, but a little less since we don't need to worry about recouping it


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## SCHWIL (Sep 5, 2013)

I own a house built in 1750.  It is a true brick house (no wood frame).  Right now I have a 30 yr old hvac system that runs on LP, and it's costing me a fortune summer and winter, alike.  I would love to get rid of the duct work, the blowers dripping condensation from the attic, etc.  Does anyone have any thoughts about the practicality and/or efficiency of replacing the dinosaur with a mini-split system?


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## woodgeek (Sep 5, 2013)

SCHWIL said:


> I own a house built in 1750.  It is a true brick house (no wood frame).  Right now I have a 30 yr old hvac system that runs on LP, and it's costing me a fortune summer and winter, alike.  I would love to get rid of the duct work, the blowers dripping condensation from the attic, etc.  Does anyone have any thoughts about the practicality and/or efficiency of replacing the dinosaur with a mini-split system?



Where are you located?


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## SCHWIL (Sep 5, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Where are you located?


 My 1750 house is in Hampton Roads, VA.  The thick brick walls act as a cave--cold in the winter and moderate in the summer.  The addition is wood frame and has the usual concerns.  The system we have now is ancient and must be replaced no matter what.  I just wonder if this is a rational option.


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## pen (Sep 5, 2013)

Since putting one of these ductless units in many rooms would be an eyesore, and expensive, the layout of the house is often a large determining factor in how well these things will work.

After having such great success with my unit I had a cousin who was interested in them to help take the edge off his oil usage.  My installer went to his house and told him "I'm not selling you one of these, this place will give them a bad name."  His house was about 100 years old with tall ceilings and was a very non-open layout.


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## SCHWIL (Sep 5, 2013)

There are 4 rooms in the old brick part of the house and 2 rooms in the addition which is wood frame.  I have read about ceiling vents that would probably work upstairs.  I don't know if that would work downstairs as the ceilings are 9 feet.  I would prefer ceiling to wall-mounted systems.  The layout is definitely NOT open, but it seems like that would make the room by room conditioning concept better???  There is a company here that advertises 8 splits on one system, but I don't know the cost.  Do you have any alternative suggestions for heating an historic house like this?


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## pen (Sep 5, 2013)

I think your best bet is to talk to an installer that you have good references for.

At the end of the day, the expertise on this site is in regards to solid fuel burning.  You just happened to come across a thread where a bunch of us were basically shooting the breeze about these things in terms of our experiences


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## woodgeek (Sep 6, 2013)

Another option would be conventional split system, like a central AC system.  Sounds like your ducts need to be replaced or sealed/insulated (at least in the attic or other unconditioned space).  If fixing the ducts was doable, could be a lower cost option. Without the open plan or high insulation level, minis might not be ideal.

Efficiency might be a bit lower, but in VA you'd prob be fine. I'm running a Goodman 4-ton ASHP effectively in Philly.


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## flyingcow (Sep 15, 2013)

pen said:


> I think your best bet is to talk to an installer that you have good references for.
> 
> At the end of the day, the expertise on this site is in regards to solid fuel burning.  You just happened to come across a thread where a bunch of us were basically shooting the breeze about these things in terms of our experiences



On that note i just put in 2 mitsubishi's Hyper's. Nice units, we love 'em.


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## begreen (Sep 15, 2013)

Congrats. Let us know how they work out this winter.


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## Highbeam (Nov 26, 2013)

Here I am again, almost a year later researching these things again during a burn ban. I have mental issue I guess and only get serious when I am faced with being cold.

The minisplit market seems to have remained unchanged with the same technology and same players. Thoughts?


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## flyingcow (Nov 26, 2013)

At this point I am happy with my units.


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## pen (Nov 26, 2013)

Love the poo out of mine but only 1.5 years into service with my mitsu unit.  I still can't get over how comfortable it makes things in the summer, and even how much I use it in the shoulder season (BG called it) and how little the darn thing costs to do all that.  At most using the 18k cooling 22.5 (or something similar) heating unit I have (with hyperheat) has been about 15 bucks a month. 

I used to use a 6 foot electric baseboard intermittently to supplement in shoulder seasons or when I was going to be away from the stove.  Setting the mitsu unit to keep the house at 65 and keeping it there (or higher when wanted) costs about the same a month and does way more than that little 6 foot unit did.

Very happy, and hope I can keep saying that year after year.

I do have a couple of minor gripes (fan runs more than necessary, temp setting is inaccurate for heating) they are mild.


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## peakbagger (Nov 27, 2013)

The Mitsubishi units are the standard for these type of units. Fujitsu made a big PR campaign in central maine to go after Bangor Hydro rebates. Both have good reputations. Both can be installed poorly and there are shortcuts that are easy to take. Cold weather heat pumps need to be out of the wind, preferably on the downwind side of the house in place where snow doesn't fall on it. This unfortunately is opposite of a desired place for an AC unit so there is a fundamental trade off on the optimal location of the unit. I built a removable pitched roof over mine to keep snow off the coils but its not optimized for sun. The ideal spot would be on south wall shaded by a hardwood in the summer that loses its leaves for the winter. There are flush mount wall and roof options for those who don't like the look of the standard wall mount unit.  There are several second tier brands, usually slightly less efficient or not as effective down at low temps. Mitsubishis can be bought on line, I am not sure if Fujitsus are. Both companies predominantly want to sell through distributors and installers with significant makrups. 

From talking with service techs, there are very rarely serviceable components that are worth fixing unless the unit was a defective design. The construction is very tightly packed and generally its easier to swap in a new unit due to labor costs. Usually repairs are driven by poor installs or external damage.

I did my own install and hired out the final charging of the lines. After watching what needed to be done, I will probably charge the lines myself next time , but the one time cost for a pump and gauge set means if you only install one, hire it out.

Tom in Maine on this site gets a lot of feedback on these units on his radio show, unfortunately unless you live near the radio stations, there is no way to hear them but his two cents would be valuable.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 27, 2013)

peakbagger said:


> The Mitsubishi units are the standard for these type of units. Fujitsu made a big PR campaign in central maine to go after Bangor Hydro rebates. Both have good reputations. Both can be installed poorly and there are shortcuts that are easy to take. Cold weather heat pumps need to be out of the wind, preferably on the downwind side of the house in place where snow doesn't fall on it. This unfortunately is opposite of a desired place for an AC unit so there is a fundamental trade off on the optimal location of the unit. I built a removable pitched roof over mine to keep snow off the coils but its not optimized for sun. The ideal spot would be on south wall shaded by a hardwood in the summer that loses its leaves for the winter. There are flush mount wall and roof options for those who don't like the look of the standard wall mount unit.  There are several second tier brands, usually slightly less efficient or not as effective down at low temps. Mitsubishis can be bought on line, I am not sure if Fujitsus are. Both companies predominantly want to sell through distributors and installers with significant makrups.
> 
> From talking with service techs, there are very rarely serviceable components that are worth fixing unless the unit was a defective design. The construction is very tightly packed and generally its easier to swap in a new unit due to labor costs. Usually repairs are driven by poor installs or external damage.
> 
> ...


 

Friend of mine took advantage of the Bangor Hydro program and ended up with a Mitsu unit . . . loves it. Relegated his wood pellet stove to only burning on the days when it is brutally cold.

Sadly I am in Central Maine Power territory so no rebates . . . and hence . . . no heat pump.

Was talking to a heating tech the other day who pretty much said the same as you . . . Mitsubishi is his preferred unit for installation. Says he has been installing heat pumps for close to 30 years -- said the newer tech has been great for working in cold weather areas.


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## Highbeam (Nov 27, 2013)

For those of you with two units, or experience with two. Can a single circuit feed both? I have a 30 amp 240 circuit stubbed out for this stype of thing that has plenty of power for two of them but I've not seen that type of install.

I love that these things make full output into the single digits. As a kid, we had a traditional heat pump that would not do the job below 35 degrees.


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## Dave A. (Nov 27, 2013)

And you only get one inside unit.  Big thing has to be put up high on the wall, can't hide it lower behind furniture.  So it is kind of like a stove, leave doors open to get the heat around.


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## peakbagger (Nov 27, 2013)

I guess someone missed this _ There are flush mount wall and roof options for those who don't like the look of the standard wall mount unit._

I do agree its like a space heater like a wood stove or pellet stove with the same limitations. Bangor Hydro was pushing it for elderly folks who typically spend most of their time in one part of the house during the day and then suggested the rst of the house could be kept at a lower overall temp


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## Dave A. (Nov 27, 2013)

peakbagger said:


> I guess someone missed this There are flush mount wall and roof options for those who don't like the look of the standard wall mount unit.



I thought you were referring to the compressor outside, you said "roof".  I'm talking about the inside unit.  I realize there are recessed ceiling units, but I didn't think they were available with the higher efficiency hyperheat units that go down to 5F at full output (at least that's how it appeared to me in the brochure).  I haven't seen any recessed wall units for inside, but that sounds possibly interesting (would assume mounted in a 16" stud bay)


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## flyingcow (Nov 27, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> For those of you with two units, or experience with two. Can a single circuit feed both? I have a 30 amp 240 circuit stubbed out for this stype of thing that has plenty of power for two of them but I've not seen that type of install.
> 
> I love that these things make full output into the single digits. As a kid, we had a traditional heat pump that would not do the job below 35 degrees.



I think my big unit is on a 20 amp feed and the 12k unit is a 15 amp.  If i was to do it again i would go with a split head unit. saves a little money on install. 5/600 bucks?


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## RustyShackleford (Nov 29, 2013)

> Mitsubishis can be bought on line, I am not sure if Fujitsus are. Both companies predominantly want to sell through distributors and installers with significant makrups.


Fujitsu is sold online as well - google some prices - but the parent company hates it and gives all sorts of dire warnings about the lack of warranty coverage for units bought online.   Here's the amazing thing though: My installer, not really a pro, but a guy who does it on the side (he does much more high-powered but related work for his real job) checked with his local HVAC supplier, and the price they gave was almost identical to the online price.   So obviously that's the way we went.


Highbeam said:


> For those of you with two units, or experience with two. Can a single circuit feed both? I have a 30 amp 240 circuit stubbed out for this stype of thing that has plenty of power for two of them but I've not seen that type of install.


 You could just feed a couple of fused disconnects, or maybe a sub-panel.

Believe it or not, I've basically not used the install we did about a year ago.   The "encapsulation" of my crawlspace has made such a huge difference in my house's tightness that the BK is easily keeping me warm, without heroic effort.   Seriously.



> If i was to do it again i would go with a split head unit.


For the Fujitsus at least, and for reasons I don't understand, the split head units do not have as good performance ratings (SEER and HSPF) as the single-head units like the RLS2 series.


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## Soundchasm (Dec 11, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Here I am again, almost a year later researching these things again during a burn ban. I have mental issue I guess and only get serious when I am faced with being cold.
> 
> The minisplit market seems to have remained unchanged with the same technology and same players. Thoughts?



I got a Panasonic one ton unit installed in a "new construction" sunroom (very good r-factors in insulation and window glass packs).  The old sunroom was damaged by falling firewood that thought it was a tree.  The outside unit is really quiet.  The air handler is quiet enough for me, too.  I never stumbled across anything that lead me to believe there would be single digit heat, so I told my wife not to run it below 32 degrees, but maybe now I'll try that.

You guys are all well-informed on details I only suspected.  All I can add is that the copper flare seal for our unit was not done properly and everything leaked out.  We'd find out in the spring that it wasn't cooling.  The second year that happened a company replaced the Schrader(?) valve as a culprit.  We'll see what happens this spring.

I guess the 410 stuff is VERY high pressure for copper flare, and a "small" problem isn't possible.

One technician told me there was no good way to measure the pressure to top it off.  Said mine was designed to be empty and then weigh-in the coolant.

Dayton Power and Light's rebate was only if a licensed company installed it.  I think the installer was supposed to give the buyer a credit, but then DP&L issued a reimbursement and a 1099-misc to the installer.  And the federal rebate for energy efficiency has a lifetime cap, and I went through that several years ago.

There was a post earlier on about the HVAC air to air heat pumps kicking into auxiliary heat mode to make up a small differential.  Mine does that and it's infuriating.  It's really NOT an emergency to kick up one or two degrees.  I have four daily time zones seven days a week, but that thing freaking out probably costs more than it saves...


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## woodgeek (Dec 11, 2013)

Soundchasm said:


> You guys are all well-informed on details I only suspected.  All I can add is that the copper flare seal for our unit was not done properly and everything leaked out.  We'd find out in the spring that it wasn't cooling.  The second year that happened a company replaced the Schrader(?) valve as a culprit.  We'll see what happens this spring.
> 
> I guess the 410 stuff is VERY high pressure for copper flare, and a "small" problem isn't possible.



A different explanation....a Schraeder valve is just like the little valve stems you have on bike or car tires, right down to the little plastic cap.  They are there to allow the tech to hook up gauges or pumps to test and refill the system (just like your tires).  If the tech replaced that, it has nothing to do with the flare connections leaking (and they can handle much higher pressures than required for 410).  I lost the whole 410 fill on my system but my tech admitted that he zapped the Schraeder when he soldered my lines.  In your case, maybe your first tech did something stupid to get some dirt/grime in there during install (common, sadly), or its a manufacturing defect. ??


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## RustyShackleford (Dec 11, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> ... my tech admitted that he zapped the Schraeder when he soldered my lines.  In your case, maybe your first tech did something stupid to get some dirt/grime in there during install (common, sadly) ...


Lordy, I am SO lucky.   The guy who helps me with HVAC does it as a sideline to his main job - maintaining cryogenic systems at a major research university.


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## rigsfan (Feb 7, 2014)

We had a Mitsubishi mini-split hyper heat 18000 unit installed in December to heat our ~1100 sq ft great room/kitchen area.  We were hoping to be able to remove our old electricity-eating baseboard units, but decided to wait one year to make sure the mini-split could do the job.  The mini-split's been great until we just had our first run of sub zero night weather.  I was sure happy we kept in those baseboards!  Under about -5 the mini was still trying, but couldn't quite do the job.  Had to crank up the baseboards and our builder-box fireplace (saving to replace with wood stove in an alcove build) to stay warm.  As soon as it warmed up to -5 (does that make sense?) the mini was on board again and all was well.


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## RustyShackleford (Feb 7, 2014)

rigsfan said:


> Under about -5 the mini was still trying, but couldn't quite do the job.


Speaking of which, here in NC we've had what we consider brutally cold, high single digits, and my Fujitsu mini-split is handling it just fine.

That to me is a huge advantage of the mini-split: the simplicity of not requiring any backup heat source (in my climate, that is).   It's going to be a tough call whether to try to get a couple of these for my main house (the Fujitsu is in a study I just added) when my main heat pump gives up the ghost, probably fairly soon.   

Though, with my BlazeKing, and my newly encapsulated crawlspace, and my transfer duct cycling super-heated loft air through the room with the minisplit, I hardly use the heat-pump anyhow (in winter-time, that is).


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## rigsfan (Feb 7, 2014)

I would recommend the mini-splits to anyone if the temp's stay above -5.  Very nice and quiet, too! 
Yeah, we can't wait until we get the new wood stove.  Hopefully this summer, then we can possibly remove the baseboards and stay warm with no worries!


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## semipro (Feb 7, 2014)

RustyShackleford said:


> Speaking of which, here in NC we've had what we consider brutally cold, high single digits, and my Fujitsu mini-split is handling it just fine..


Is this purely in HP mode or do these units have resistance heat also?


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## begreen (Feb 7, 2014)

Most mini-splits I know of do not have backup resistance heaters.


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## RustyShackleford (Feb 8, 2014)

semipro said:


> Is this purely in HP mode or do these units have resistance heat also?


There is no backup heat in mine (and most/all minisplits).


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## peakbagger (Feb 8, 2014)

None in mine, I wish it did and it would make a great backup unit


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## Gypsea (Dec 4, 2014)

begreen said:


> The Fujitsu 2 ton unit is a good one. Mitsubishi Hyper Heat H2i inverter units are rated to work below 0. They're worth researching also. You can mount the head units high enough to clear furniture. Most of the units I have seen are at about the 5-6' level. In warmer climates they are often put at just below ceiling level for better cooling performance. Mitsubishi also makes a floor cabinet head unit if that is preferable.
> 
> One head unit is rarely enough for even house heat. I would plan on at least 2 head units. Get multiple estimates from experienced professional installers that knows these units and have installed many. You might be surprised at the range in quotes. Get references and take the time to look at a couple of each bidder's installations. Workmanship can vary a lot from company to company.



Hello. Out of frustration and disappointment in my Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim" heat pump, I'm searching for forums for a sanity check. My story -  I spent around 4K on a 13000BTU ductless unit.  I have 1100 sf on 2 levels.  I only expect to heat the downstairs.  Recent cold snap, nights in the 30's. Heat pump not getting above 66 in spite of using the super fan and the super boost option. Service came out and determined unit was well below refrigerant or pressure (not sure term). They fixed that. Now, to get 68 degrees I have to set remote controller to 74 and can confirm the temp at the unit, up at the ceiling is constant at 77.  The service guy seemed to figure this out on the fly. So far I am not at all happy with this setup.  . I am in the habit of setting back at night, as the residual heat upstairs makes it too warm for sleeping.  I cannot set back to 60 (which would be 66 on the controller) and get it back up to 68 (which would be 74 on the controller) within even 6 hours the next day.  Hoping this makes sense and hoping someone on the forum can either tell me this is expected or advise me on some actions.  Much appreciated.


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## woodgeek (Dec 4, 2014)

A wild guess.....the unit is not powerful enough to heat your space without help.

Comfort will take a hit, and temp gradients will get bad when the unit is too small for the heating 'load'.

As for practical advice....if you can prevent the warm air from rising upstairs blocking it somehow, you will be better off.  Can you close bedroom doors, etc?


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## begreen (Dec 4, 2014)

It sounds like in one case you are trying in one case to have the mini-split function as an area heater and in the other as a whole house heater. 13000btus for 2200 sq ft is unrealistic unless the house is super-insulated. Can you close off the upstairs in some way so that the unit is only trying to heat up the downstairs in the morning? That should speed warming of the first floor.

PS: or am I reading this wrong and you have 1100 sq ft total. If so, how well insulated is the house?


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## Gypsea (Dec 4, 2014)

woodgeek said:


> A wild guess.....the unit is not powerful enough to heat your space without help.
> 
> Comfort will take a hit, and temp gradients will get bad when the unit is too small for the heating 'load'.
> 
> As for practical advice....if you can prevent the warm air from rising upstairs blocking it somehow, you will be better off.  Can you close bedroom doors, etc?



Thanks for the quick response.  Of course the sales people and the service tech both told me this was the right unit for my config. What can one do but trust the "experts"? Is not practical to close off the stair well; one bedroom door remains closed and unheated; the other has a zonal, "cadet" heater on a programmable thermo and it works very well heating the bedroom and hallway area.  i will experiment with keeping ing that door closed for the day; thanks for the tip. I see no joy in owning ductless heat pump at this time.


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## woodgeek (Dec 4, 2014)

are you 1100 sq ft on each floor, 2200 total, or 1100 total?


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## Gypsea (Dec 4, 2014)

begreen said:


> It sounds like in one case you are trying in one case to have the mini-split function as an area heater and in the other as a whole house heater. 13000btus for 2200 sq ft is unrealistic unless the house is super-insulated. Can you close off the upstairs in some way so that the unit is only trying to heat up the downstairs in the morning? That should speed warming of the first floor.
> 
> PS: or am I reading this wrong and you have 1100 sq ft total. If so, how well insulated is the house?



1100 sf total. I live in a town house and share common walls on both sides of unit.  Blown insulation in attic; none (yet) in crawl space. Not practical to close off stairwell, but can close off the two bedrooms upstairs for sure. Thanks!


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## begreen (Dec 5, 2014)

One way to understand the heat output of the mini-split (or any heater) is to think in equivalent resistance heaters. The mini-split is putting out about 2.25 electrical heaters worth of heat. Could the whole place be heated with 2 - 1500w electric heaters? How long would it take them to heat up the whole place?

It is not efficient with a mini-split to have a large set back temperature. Try just a couple degrees cooler at night or try leaving the temp at the daytime temp setting and just close off the bedroom you sleep in around 7pm. It will get colder due to the lack of heat. Sleeping with the door just ajar may be just right for sleeping and you will wake up to a warm house.


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## semipro (Dec 5, 2014)

Even though you're trying only to heat the 1st floor I suspect you're actually heating both floors and 13k BTUs s is just not enough heat output.  
According to the chart below for your unit it will only heat about 550 sq. ft. 
I'd bet this unit is installed high on the wall as most are and that your heated air is hugging the ceiling until it reaches the stairwell and then moves upward to the 2nd floor.
The only option I see, other than adding more heating capacity, would be to close off the bottom of the stairwell at the 1st floor level somehow.   
We installed some pleated cellular blinds at the bottom of our stairwell that do just that.  Ours don't extend all the way to the floor but could I guess.  We have a 10' ceiling there and the blinds only extend down about 4" but it does serve to trap hot air on the 1st level.


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## flyingcow (Dec 5, 2014)

we have a heat pump downstairs and one upstairs. very seldom use the one upstairs in the winter.but we keep the doors open at least 4 inches sometimes more to keep all the rooms upstairs relatively warm. 

if you get good and bored.hang a few pieces of toilet paperaround the stairs or in certain areas and watch the air movement.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 6, 2014)

My problem with the Mr Slim is that while I can set the thermostat to 60-62 degrees I can't get the bedroom to that temp. It stays 65-66 degrees.. We end up turning off the unit in the early evening and opening a window to get the "comfortable sleeping" temp..


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## Highbeam (Dec 8, 2014)

Gypsea said:


> Thanks for the quick response.  Of course the sales people and the service tech both told me this was the right unit for my config. What can one do but trust the "experts"? Is not practical to close off the stair well; one bedroom door remains closed and unheated; the other has a zonal, "cadet" heater on a programmable thermo and it works very well heating the bedroom and hallway area.  i will experiment with keeping ing that door closed for the day; thanks for the tip. I see no joy in owning ductless heat pump at this time.


 

No, you cannot blindly trust the experts. Some are excellent but some are crooks. You only find out which one you got when you run into problems.

Due to our 9 cent per kwh heat I have changed my mind on the ductless and will stick with plain old electric wall heaters for backup heat when the woodstove is unable to run. The minisplits are quite ugly, expensive, and in a backup heat application don't make as much sense as a wall heater. If I ever need to stop using wood heat then I can always switch to minis.


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## begreen (Dec 10, 2014)

For primary heat, particularly shoulder season a mini-split often makes more economic sense. Can't agree at all with the ugly comment. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some stoves are ugly too.


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## Ashful (Dec 11, 2014)

I'll agree with the classic mini splits being less than attractive, but Mitsu sells all sorts of in-ceiling and in-wall options, now.  I'm blown away by the idea of trying to heat or cool 1100 sq.ft. on two levels with only 13kbtu!  I have 1 ton (12kbtu) just for my 300 sq ft studio over the garage.  I'm being quoted 2 tons for a new 1200 sq ft space.


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## Highbeam (Dec 11, 2014)

Joful said:


> I'll agree with the classic mini splits being less than attractive, but Mitsu sells all sorts of in-ceiling and in-wall options, now.  I'm blown away by the idea of trying to heat or cool 1100 sq.ft. on two levels with only 13kbtu!  I have 1 ton (12kbtu) just for my 300 sq ft studio over the garage.  I'm being quoted 2 tons for a new 1200 sq ft space.


 
No they don't. Not in the units that are able to function at low temperatures. You're stuck with the ugly trailer looking wall warts. It's one of my peaves with the minisplit industry, that and they do not offer a water heating version. I wonder if it is a conspiracy. Lots of energy is spent heating water in this country.

I think they are ugly AND I have an old school BK. That's saying something. 

I can burn wood in the shoulder season for primary heat just fine. So why would I spend any money on a minisplit? Cooling? Don't need it. The existing resistance back up heaters are functional, free, and don't look as ghetto.

The efficiency is wonderful and if you live in the city where you can't use woodheat and don't mind the looks then they are a great option.


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## rumleyfips (Dec 27, 2014)

I have a question similar to that posed by Gypsea above.

I installed a Caribou 12,000 btu inverter unit because it had quick connect lines for DIY, cost $1100 installed and was 110v so I can use it with my solar/battery/inverter or a generator. It is marginally sized for the Nova Scotia climate but I intend to burn wood in January and February. Cutting wood is getting to be too hard on my hands and wrists.

The room temperature never gets above 18C/65F even with the thermostat set at 77F. The problem is not undercapacity as this was the same Christmas day at 60F outside. The heat pump was only drawing 6.8 amps ( max is 11A ) but inside the temperature did not get above 18/65F. We like it at 20C/68F to be comfortable.

It seems to me that the mini split is reacting to ambient with the outdoor sensor and using this temperature to regulate capacity. The setting of the inside thermostat with the handset doesn't do anything.

I'll get back to the supplier next week ( this is the first chance I've had to document the information ) but I wonder if anyone has any ideas to help.

Thanks:
John


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