# 1988 Breckwell P24 Freestanding Stove  Wiring issues



## SFSurfdude (Oct 23, 2014)

I have spent the last three months trying to sort this out, I have the above listed stove. Last season it worked like a champ. Well, at the end of the season it failed to start up, so I sent the PC Board off to be checked and it is OK. When I disconnected the PC Board I removed five wires from four positions on the PC board as well as the Molex connector. The diagram I made has come up missing for the wiring, Ive spent alot of time trying to figure it out but Im not willing to take the chance of making a bad connection and ruining my stove. It is my only heat source and the nights are getting very cold.
The wires I removed from the PC Board are the following colors: Yellow, Black, Grey, Blue and Pink
The PC Board is labeled as follows: Yellow, White, Black and Red
The 8 pin Molex connector seems to be able to be connected in either direction, no snap to indicated which way it should be connected.
The pink wire goes to the terminal strip
Blue goes to the high temp thermodisc
grey goes to normal/high fan
Black and yellow are obvious.
Any help is appreciated, this is a good unit and would like to keep using it. The molex connector Im not sure how to resolve.  Thank you in advance...
Here are the pics of the wires and pc board connections:


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## Owen1508 (Oct 24, 2014)

I can email you an OM for a P24  the oldest I have is the 1989 version.  It does have a wiring diagram that may be helpful


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## Lake Girl (Oct 24, 2014)

Manual dated 1/05 - http://ocsa.com/BreckwellP24OwnersManual.pdf
wiring diagram on page 30

Let us know how you make out


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## Owen1508 (Oct 24, 2014)

That's too new a manual for that stove


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## Owen1508 (Oct 24, 2014)

Here's one that should help


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## SFSurfdude (Oct 25, 2014)

Thanks for the wiring diagrams, unfortunately I cant make heads or tails out of this. With a lack of repair people etc etc. My best guess is I will need to buy a 50000 BTU
Gas Floor heater for my house. It appears Ive shot myself in the foot on this one loosing that 3X5 card with the notations of where those wires go on that PC Board.
I dont have the where with all to sabotage this stove trying either and ruining components...   Worst case senerio I can part it out in order to recoup some of the monies Im loosing.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 26, 2014)

No friends that can help you figure out the wiring?


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## SFSurfdude (Oct 26, 2014)

Unfortunately I dont, but Im not the type to be a quitter. So Im looking on youtube trying to learn how to read wiring diagrams. I love this stove and it worked perfectly, its going to cost around 500. to make the switch to gas so my motivation is to get this resolved.


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## Stovensen (Oct 26, 2014)

This diagram is the oldest I could find. It goes back to '92. Hope it may help you.


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## Stovensen (Oct 26, 2014)

Here's a picture of the control board with the molex multiconnector in place:


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## Lake Girl (Oct 26, 2014)

The wire you have marked as light grey - is it actually pink?


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## SFSurfdude (Oct 28, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> The wire you have marked as light grey - is it actually pink?


You are absolutely correct, the wire marked light grey is actually a pink wire as you suggested. When I initially signed up as a youth in the Army, I thought I wanted to be a wireman in the Signal Corps. After testing, they informed me that I had a very minor colorblindness problem which disqualified me from that position. Now couple with Macular degeneration going on theres a real need for me to avoid said wiring work period...  My issue is going to resolved in a couple of days.


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## SFSurfdude (Oct 28, 2014)

Stovensen said:


> Here's a picture of the control board with the molex multiconnector in place:
> View attachment 142389



The picture is my exact analog set up my p24 has. The minor difference are the wires I see on the four hookup positions. I am learning that the wire colors may differ from the wire colors as indicated on the wiring diagram. In any event, within a couple days my Breckwell issue I brought upon myself is going to be resolved. I was a complete retard looking at any wiring diagram a few days ago, but refusing to allow a good stove to go to waste I began the learning process of HOW TO...
As my luck and pleading for help would have it, I found a local technician to resolve this for me. Learning is always great, but my wood flooring project needs my attention, I cant put the feeling behind me that somehow Im playing "Wire Roulette" when I look at this wire mess...
Thanks to all who took the time to assist me with this issue, I deeply appreciate your effort...
Regards
SFSurfdude
Stockton, Ca   (When traveling past Stockton, keep going. Do not even stop in this town for fuel, food or anything...)
This is where I came up with the term "Criminally Ignorant" This is where Gangs are #1 and the residents here rationalize behaviors that are insane, dial back 4 or so generations of the same and you have a real mess of people without hope for anything as we know it.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 28, 2014)

SFSurfdude said:


> This is where I came up with the term "Criminally Ignorant" This is where Gangs are #1 and the residents here rationalize behaviors that are insane, dial back 4 or so generations of the same and you have a real mess of people without hope for anything as we know it.


That's just sad and without intervention, the younger ones don't have role models for a decent life...


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## Lake Girl (Oct 28, 2014)

Apparently Stockton is bankrupt so the police force will likely disappear too... Crime stats are nasty. How did you end up in Stockton and how long have you been there?  Forum is here for when you want to talk pellets; Inglenook for when not pellet related - leave politics out of both though...


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## SFSurfdude (Oct 31, 2014)

Pd cash 50K for home 1 yr ago, mother was aging then died two months later.
Still waiting on my tech, He is going to review an old job He did in Sacramento with the same stove. Ive done all the maintenance on the stove including sanding  all carbon off fan blades, replacing gaskets, sanding off light rust and blowing out the motors with my compressor. I saw that people mention oiling the motors but I failed to see any specific oiling point but will research further.The one thing I have yet to do is find the appropriate insulating material for the back wall to protect the motors I assume from the heat of the firebox.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 31, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the loss of your Mom 

Fire Brick?  Only place on-line that I've found that happens to be a forum member...
http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Breckwell-P24-Decorative-Bricks-p/sa24bk.htm

Keep us posted on how you make out ... pics when you're up and running!


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## SFSurfdude (Nov 6, 2014)

It looks like what I may need the answer to is as in the above example posted by Stevenson on Oct 26th 2014 would be where the particular colored wires are going to or their destination so that I can connect my wires which are a different colors. My tech is having equally a difficult time sorting this out as well


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## SFSurfdude (Nov 7, 2014)

Stovensen said:


> Here's a picture of the control board with the molex multiconnector in place:
> View attachment 142389



Is there any chance that you might be able to tell me the locations or components the yellow red black and white wires are going to?


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## Stovensen (Nov 7, 2014)

SFSurfdude said:


> Is there any chance that you might be able to tell me the locations or components the yellow red black and white wires are going to?


 
My personal/practical experience with pellet stoves is entirely based on servicing my Quest Plus. On a Breckwell I have no hands on experience, but wait a sec... the website where I found the pic of the P24 control actually has some info on the wiring that could help you a long way. Have a look at this:

http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/Breckwell_help.htm

Eventually we may have to do some reverse engineering, you know, step by step analyze each individual component, and how the overall functionality is. Especially the safeties are important to have wired in the right order. A Breckwell stove seems to be a bit different from a Whitfield.
We could really do with a proper wiring diagram of a 1988 P24. Maybe a fellow P24 owner will chime in to help, when they see this.

Reverse engineering could be as simple as this to start with: On a blank piece of paper you draw each component in the stove: Blowermotors ( and their wirecolors ), safety switches ( and their wirecolors ), ignitor ( and its wirecolors ), auger motor ( and its wirecolors ), control board and terminal strip. Then you take a nice sharp photo of this drawing and post it in here. Together I'm sure we will be able to solve the puzzle
Note: If you decide to make a drawing for reverse engineering, then I strongly suggest you to make it in the Breckwell style like the one I posted earlier in the thread of a P24 from1992.


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 9, 2014)

Well as it stands now Ive wired up the control board incorrectly which i the leat of the problem. I broke of a resistor (3 prong) from fooling with the wiring, actually knocked it off. So I give up...
Im going to not give up so easy, Im going to go with the wiring for old pellet stoves as posted on this site as a last chance for my stove. Ive been running it by manualy placing pellets in the burn pot which results in a flash explosion if you arent careful. Enough said. I found a recycle timer on Ebay the title is: ABB SACC Solid State Econo timer relay recycle New in Box. Can this work for a pellet stove? to regulate the hopper feed rate? Its getting mighty cold, my chihuahua and I are fairly miserable and I would love to put this entire issue in my "resolved" filing box.
One other timer which I prefer as the delays are appropriate is a: Crouzet Syrelec ODRU220A Interval Timer Repeat cycle relay but it is 24Vac so Im assuming it could be used to activate a 120v auger somehow with the addition of another type of mechanism to which I dont know what to call it. 
My electronics and electricity knowlege is limited but with how chilly its getting I need to do something (barring burning down my house)




*ABB SSAC Solid State Econo Timer Relay Recycle NEW IN BOX*

Mouse over image to zoom



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*ABB *


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## Lake Girl (Dec 9, 2014)

Can the resistor be repaired?  Much safer to use the component designed to operate the stove...

I would start drawing (or at least listing) the diagram that Stovensen suggested - Component and what coloured wires are attached to it i.e. room convection blower pink & white wires, exhaust combustion blower black & white, auger orange and grey....


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 10, 2014)

I would imagine the component can be replaced by removing the old remaining prongs and re soldering another one in its place, if Im not mistaken its a limiting resistor? But Ive seen them at radio shack for 2.00.
Ive been hesitant to draw this as instructed as Im not good at doing that but I will do it at the best of my ability I suppose.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 147167


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## Lake Girl (Dec 10, 2014)

Attachment didn't show up ...  Not worried about your artistic ability, just want to help with getting some heat!


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 10, 2014)

Thank you, I will draw it out today after I get done with my errands. If you look at the control board photo in this post I previously placed the limiting resistor is immediately above the "Yellow" wire screw. It is three pronged and has metal sticking out the top of it.


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## Stovensen (Dec 10, 2014)

Hi Surfdude, the component next to "yellow" wire screw has Q2004F 31 written on it. That is a Triac in a TO-202 housing. The digit '4' indicates that it is a 4 amp version. Radio Shack has a replacement for about $ 2 that most likely will work, provided that it is pin to pin compatible. They should know at Radio Shack.
I have attached the datasheet for the Q2004F 31 Triac below this text.
Looking forward to study your drawing of the wiring with cable colors etc. We are ready here to help you the best we can.

Keep us posted
Bo


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 10, 2014)

Ive completed my version of an electrical wiring diagram for my P24 Pellet Stove. As reluctant as I was to do this as an option simply wasted valuable time. Im smiling thinking the real motivator was the awful cold, now the impending storm on its way... So please forgive my "version" it may not be according to known standards but maybe that is why I was a Painting Contractor and not an electrician. Frankly I feel good about getting this done. If (Im sure) you may have any questions pls. of course ask me I will get an answer back quickly, most of all many thanks for your time helping me getting this done. I will resolve the 4 amp Triac repair/soldering I need to do.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 10, 2014)

No vacuum switch?


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

That is correct, No vacuum switch, manual firestart as well. I suspect a first generation model or the like...


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

Also I forgot to label the wires on the power supply going to the terminal strip. One which is screwed independently away fm the term strip  is the ground. The one next to it is white the top one is black.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 11, 2014)

Stovensen is going to be able to give you the key on this by telling you where the yellow, white, black and red wires run to off his board.  All the wiring diagrams that I have looked at have 6 wires going to the board not 4 (or 5 in your case).  Can see why this has been driving you nuts...


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

This is good news to me and my little dog Yohdah...   When I go out to go food shopping today I am going to splurge and buy some bags of pellets in advance of this potential success...


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## Stovensen (Dec 11, 2014)

Thanks for the drawing, Surfdude. Just got back home a little while ago after driving through some heavy snowfall, which later turned into heavy rain.
Now this is something of a puzzle for sure, but I've heard that a little exercise for the neurons should be good for elderly people like me ( I'm 59 ).   

I have added to the drawing, what we know so far. Also, I have added some text on your picture of the pcb in order to determine exactly what is connect to the terminals on the pcb. Very important. We can see that the two input terminals of the primary side of the transformer need to be energized all the time by the phase (L) and the neutral (N), 120 Volt/60 Hertz, otherwise the electronics won't work at start up.
Surfdude, please study my findings so far, and do correct it, if anything appears uncorrect.

A Breckwell P24 from 1988 differs from my Whitfield Quest Plus on several points... in particular the fact that it doesn't have an air flow switch
A P24 also has an extra snap switch of the N.O. type ( Normally Open ). I have found a very useful and detailed description of the overall functionality of the safety switches on a P24 on the Hearthtools website. This information really opened my eyes on how these important safety switches operate:

*Limit switches:
Most Breckwell's have 3 switches: a. One 60T21 high Limit (over heat) thermo Switch. Normally Closed (N.C.).Click here for Test
If the stove gets over 300 Deg this switch will stop the supply of pellets even if the manual button is pressed. The combustion blower and convection blower will stay running to burn up the rest of the pellets and to cool the stove down .
 b. Auger thermodisk  60t22 switch. Normally Open (N.O.) Click here for Test
This switch will close at 110 deg. allowing power to come from the control boards yellow wire after the 15 minute start up cycle. (The control board feeds power directly to the auger during the 15 minutes start up cycle through the ORANGE wire, after 15 min. power is fed through the YELLOW wire.)
 c. Blower thermodisk  60t22 switch. Normally Open (N.O.)Click here for Test
This switch will close at 110 deg. allowing power to come from the Terminal strip to the combustion blower after the 15 minute start up cycle. This is how the stoves knows to shut off after the stoves cools down after the pellet supply is stopped.
(The control board feeds power directly to the combustion blower during the 15 minutes start up cycle, after 15 min. power comes directly from the terminal trip power supply mounted to the bottom of the stove.)*


I also found a P24 owners manual that appears to be quite old, but maybe not old enough to cover your stove, Surfdude??.
But anyways, studying this further helped me understanding how a P24 works. I have attached this manual below this text.
It's getting a bit late here now, and tomorrow morning I have promised to take my girl friend to the hospital to make some blood tests. She has Diabetes II.
I promise to return tomorrow, when I have had more time to study how this thing "is ticking"


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

Regarding the primary inputs of the transformer,looking at the bottom of the PC Board  I have traced them back to these screws:
 Phase L  Black    Neutral  White   Reviewing my drawing Phase L = pink wire (constant power fm term strip) Im completely confused right now, but I almost think the gray wire and this pink wire were hooked up together on one of the screws... ( not sure what to think right now, Im surprised at how from a psychological aspect this is a real challenge. Someone just punched me with utter confusion figuratively speaking)
On the side of the component you asked me to read it has the following numbers: T2500N below that a Motorola insignia followed by 8951
The chip you indicated leads back to the triac which I need to repair.
The yellow screw traces to the triac middle prong. a side prong of the triac goes to that chip, the other prong goes to the black screw.
Red Screw goes to the middle prong of the component you asked me to read the numbers from. T2500N the left leg of t200n connects to Black
Im going to run an errand, this took me literally hours to do thus far.
Thank you for your time, I hope your GF's blood checks out fine. Seems when we get to our later years things come up, I am going blind, the progression can be  unpredictable with regard to its speed. I have faith that before I get there  will have completed  term.
 Hope the new info here helps..  I am off to sell some Silver, buy food and check out this California Storm...


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

Can I replace the broken off triac with the following from Radio Shack?
NTE5629 400vrm 4 amp
Catalog:55053088




PRINT​
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Model: NTE5629

Catalog #: 55053088
*NTE5629 TRIAC – 400VRM, 4AMP​*


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## Lake Girl (Dec 11, 2014)

Glad to hear you are getting closer to getting this sorted out guys.  I can follow the wiring diagram but way beyond my level - thanks for expanding my education

SFSurfdude, what's in your avatar?

Stovesen, hope your GFs levels are good.  Does she not self test with glucose meter?  Diet and exercise become important ...


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## johninwi (Dec 11, 2014)

Surfdude, you might post a pic of the backside of your control board, it may help stovensen trace circuit.


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> Glad to hear you are getting closer to getting this sorted out guys.  I can follow the wiring diagram but way beyond my level - thanks for expanding my education
> 
> SFSurfdude, what's in your avatar?
> 
> ...


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 11, 2014)

The backside of the control Board as requested...  Ace 3021-T
Refer to attachment for pic


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 12, 2014)

My observation of the Triacs on this PC Board is that they are both linked to the power supply, the red and black as well as the white and yellow each are linked to a prong on these triacs. I am going to study the purpose of the triacs to further educate myself and possibly solve this mystery if not get closer to the goal.


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## Stovensen (Dec 12, 2014)

SFSurfdude said:


> Can I replace the broken off triac with the following from Radio Shack?
> NTE5629 400vrm 4 amp
> Catalog:55053088
> 
> ...


 
That should work. As you can see here, they have the same pin out:


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## Stovensen (Dec 12, 2014)

Lake Girl said:


> Stovesen, hope your GFs levels are good.  Does she not self test with glucose meter?  Diet and exercise become important ...


 
Thanks Lake Girl, yes she does have a glucose meter to monitor the short term blood sugar and we know it's important to keep the mmol/L below 7, but sometimes her values have exceeded 7 mmol/L, so to be sure they make a more advanced test at the hospital. They say that this test will tell if she has accumulated some "old sugar" within the red blood cells. This "old sugar" should be what causes the long term damages to the circulation in the legs and the eyes.


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 12, 2014)

Please correct me if I am wrong... MT1prong represents where +voltage enters    MT2 is prong is where - or ground enters the triac
The G Prong is where the output voltage goes to the source to be powered?   I had trouble understanding what I was reading.


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## Stovensen (Dec 12, 2014)

SFSurfdude said:


> Im completely confused right now, but I almost think the gray wire and this pink wire were hooked up together on one of the screws...


 
This picture from the Hearthtools site also has me confused when I compare it with yours. I don't see any thick wires from the switches to the terminal strip, only the flat grey ribbon cable attached to the pcb. Maybe its just missing on the photo.
BTW, are there any electronics on the backside of panel with the switches and the potmeter?
The small black block under the grey ribbon cable must be the bypass relay that operates the stove until the snap switches close. Can you take a reading of what is written on this?
You know this bypass relay could very likely have been the reason why your stove didn't start up. They are prone to give up, sooner or later.
I also found the oldest P24 manual I've seen so far. It is from 1989 and I can see that is has the same wiring diagram that forum member Owen1508 posted earlier in the thread. The diagram is a bit hard to read, but the terminalstrip certainly is different from your that on your stove... this is cónfusing me
Is it possible that a previous owner of your stove has modified the wiring? ( different colors? ).
I have attached the 1989 owners manual below this text for you to compare with your stove.


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## Stovensen (Dec 12, 2014)

SFSurfdude said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong... MT1prong represents where +voltage enters    MT2 is prong is where - or ground enters the triac
> The G Prong is where the output voltage goes to the source to be powered?   I had trouble understanding what I was reading.


 
The triggering takes place between Gate 'G' and mainterminal 'MT1'. Mainterminal 'MT2' is the output voltage to the load.
I have added some text to the terminals on the solder side to show how these are connected to the traces:


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## dave2112 (Dec 12, 2014)

Sweet stove. Keep the old girl running.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 20, 2014)

SFSurfdude, Have you made any progress?


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## SFSurfdude (Dec 20, 2014)

What I did regarding my stove was to set a limit of time that I would spend towards the repair of the P24 Stove. I must report sadly I reached it, I have removed all parts and verified they are in working order. I have listed them on Ebay and they are nearly at the end of the first cycle of auction times today. The remaining will automatically be re listed to attempt to see and recover any original moneys spent buying this stove. While I have guilt regarding all the time others have spend assisting me getting this stove in order, but for me and all the time I spent of three months it was looking stupid to continue given the alternative. The alternative came in the form of a Williams 20000 BTU Gas Heater unit also freestanding. I will simply do as usual and close my bedroom doors, laundry room door and heat the kitchen and living areas of my house. The heater was on Cl for 50. which was outrageous considering the original cost new of 550. Its condition was new. Lucky me. When I got to the buying destination the seller said Merry Christmas and remarked that due to the fact I was a Veteran He was not going to take the 50. payment and He appreciate my military Service. 
Wow... I cant tell you the last time I have had something similar happen, I will say it has made the transition easier, the idea of this happening is for sure something I am grateful  for. So thank you for your time any one has devoted to my issue I had to draw the line given a few different things including the idea its getting very cold at present here.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 20, 2014)

Glad to hear you have a solution for your heating problem - Great Christmas present!


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## Stovensen (Dec 21, 2014)

Congratulations on your Williams 20000 BTU Gas Heater, Surfdude.
I fully understand your decision. Especially when you got it as a Christmas present
Now you and little Johdah will have a warm home in the Holidays. Merry Christmas to you,

Stay warm and safe
Bo


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