# Harman PF100 Install



## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 19, 2012)

Good morning everyone!

As a newbie here, this site has been a great place to find information - wealth of knowledge - So thank you everyone thus far.

I moved into my home in Maine in Feb. 2010 - having spent $10,000/year in heating oil I knew I needed something else, or at least supplemental to the Buderus G215 boiler. After a few seasons of cutting/splitting/stacking/hauling/burning wood from my property, my wife and I realized (now that we have a little one we welcomed to the world this past year...) we needed to take the next step and implement a third heating source (oil/wood/now pellet) into the home and something she feels comfortable with - hauling in wood or starting fires in the fireplace hasnt been her favorite tasks, although she helped split and stack.

Here are some pictures - Our current 6 zone Buderus boiler, some of the wood under the back deck, and the first part of installing the PF100. I've only gotten to the wiring and venting - I had a local duct work/sheet metal place custom fab most of the fittings and helped me to the extreme of converting my home to forced air. Its a large home - So I got the upgraded Dayton blower 1500cfm. Picked up the furnace from a great place in Sanford, Maine. A lot of thanks to them for a great price and providing me with all the info and help I needed.Fortunately I was able to get the PF100 out of the bed of my Avalanche and loaded into my garage on a furniture roller the same time I removed my hot tub from my second story deck - I rented a 35' extension tele-handler - 2 birds with one stone.

You can see I was able to haul a ton of pellets in the Avalanche. Didn't ride too bad, Only went about 3 miles with it loaded. Check out the springs, ouch. I purchased a two tons thus far....1 from Paris Farmers union for $215, and another ton at Tractor supply for $215

I'll post more pics and the final install later this week as I get it completed.

Your comments and suggestions are wanted! Thanks.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 19, 2012)

A few more pics of the duct work. Ended up using mostly 26 and 28 gauge, some 30 gauge such as the floor boots. Today I just cut through all the wood and tile floors in the house (and 2 toe-space/kick-space) areas for the floor registers.


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## smoke show (Sep 19, 2012)

Awesome! You got yourself a major project there. Looking good, keep the pics coming.


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## wil lanfear (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm curious to know why you are installing another all new heating system when you already have a hot water 6 zone system  installed that a PB-105 pellet boiler would have connected to quite nicely, plus the fact that you could get the needed DHW from the pellet boiler.


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## Ejectr (Sep 19, 2012)

You want to make sure you seal the mating surface between the base of the exhaust nipple and the furnace enclosure with high temp silicon before putting on your stove pipe adapter and sealing that. Where the furnace enclosure goes around the bottom of the exhaust nipple, you'll see it falls short of touching the nipple around the whole diameter and not necessarily by the same amount around the diameter. Seal it, let it set and then put your stove pipe adapter on and seal the bottom of that to the bottom of the nipple with high temp silicon as well. The surface between the furnace enclosure and the exhaust nipple is notorious for leaking smoke into the area where the hot air exits and it will blow out the heat vents in your house and smell like smoke. Mine did it and a lot of others have as well. Why Harman doesn't seal that...I'll never know.

The other area to watch for smoke leakage in the vent system is the wripples in 45 degree and 90 degree connectors if you're using any. I had a 45 that was leaking in the wrippled seams so I sealed them with high temp silicone. I sealed all the pipe joints with metal tape. You want to seal the end of the clean out T with metal tape as well.

You probably didn't get the PB model because you wanted to keep the forced hot water heating system original with an oil burner. At least now you can take the PF100 with you if you ever sell your house.


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## subsailor (Sep 19, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> I moved into my home in Maine in Feb. 2010 - having spent $10,000/year in heating oil


 

 10K a year????


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## jtakeman (Sep 19, 2012)

Very nice!

10K's worth of oil is still gonna be a heck of a lot of pellets! How many tons do you think it will take to get thru the winter?


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 19, 2012)

I've got a Buderus G215 as well and I just converted it to burn wood pellets.

It's been running for about 2 months now and I love it!


Here's the link.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/converting-my-oil-boiler-to-wood-pellets.84818/


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 19, 2012)

I decided to go PF100 instead of the PB105 because I wanted to circulate the air around the house - There are a lot of vaulted ceilings/spaces, add value to the home (pellet and current buderus boiler are wired into my Gentran/Auto switch for my home's back up generator), and to get the option next summer to install an A/C coil. I currently have large permanent/ built in AC units through the wall - The pellet furnace blower in manual mode (and heating off) will be able to circulate the AC air throughout the home more efficiently but mostly effectively. Or it could even move the radiant heat from my fireplace throughout the home as well. The PB105 would have been a whole lot easier thats for sure..
I got a fair price on the PF100 - It was 5300 out the door. Paid cash, $100 Harman coupon, Upgraded blower 1450cfm, complete vent kit thimble and all, and the filter box.
I'm not completely done with the duct work....but this far its at $1600 for some heavy duty and a lot of stuff. Should be about $2200 in the end.

EJECTR - Thanks for the tips on sealing the vent - I picked up some high temp silicone, and will be sure to lay a bead on all the gaskets on the exhaust. I ended up getting a stove adapter as well. Do you have pics of your install you can email me or send a PM link? Thanks, much appreciated!

We blew through almost 4,000gallons of oil the first year - the picture below is our indoor pool on the property here in Maine. It is high efficiency insulated, special ceiling tiles, new roof, glazed glass, etc... off the Buderus boiler I have it going to two 250k BTU cross flow heat exchangers (obviously through a shutoff/flow switch as well on the pool water side), and we heated the pool to a comfy 80 from spring to fall. its a 40'x20'x10' pool. The heat exchanger setup is horrible to heat up the volume of water initially, once the mass volume is at temp, the boiler zone never turned on except once a day for 30 minutes usually.We leave the cover on as well when not in use.
We then decided it was a bad idea to continue to heat the pool via oil. The previous owner had solar tube panels and a gas heater. Oil isnt the best way to heat the pool, so now I am thinking to get an outdoor wood boiler....where the PB105 idea comes into play. It wouldnt be a PB105...but some outdoor gasification unit to hook up to the current Buderus system along with the hot water tank with a mixing valve, etc. Then I would be able to take advantage of the tax incentive and write off due to a domestic water install. Last year we went through 2800gallons without heating the pool. This year so far its been 2000gallons - This is due to using the heck out of the fireplace!
Next project will be to do a fireplace pellet insert in the 48". I believe it is the Accentra I looked at...very nicceee!!

I calculated about 7-8 tons of pellets. to offset the oil used for the heating zones on the home. I did not account for oil used on the water heater or pool house. As I said, I have two tons so far...lot more to pick up! The ash pan size is incredible on the pf100! I picked up some welders gloves and a steel trashcan with a lid to make it a bit easy to empty before I dump the ashes in the back field.I'd rather pay 8*$200 than 2500gallons*$3.55 for oil this winter!!
Check out the pics of the pool house and the heat exchanger setup. Any suggestions? Keep it inexpensive Thanks guys for the input.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 19, 2012)

I only saw that Pellergy provided a new head for the Buderus from Heutz oil , quite expensive...
Im really glad you are having luck with it and enjoy it Should have looked more into it......Looks great...good install!


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 19, 2012)

I paid less for the Buderus setup than you're spending on the Harman setup.  Nothing wrong with the Harman.  I have a PB105 that's been heating my other house for the past 4 years.  Once I got it dialed in it's worked very well.

I just sold that house and next year when we build our new house I'm putting another Pellergy unit in it instead of the Harman.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 19, 2012)

AndrewChurchill said:


> I paid less for the Buderus setup than you're spending on the Harman setup. Nothing wrong with the Harman. I have a PB105 that's been heating my other house for the past 4 years. Once I got it dialed in it's worked very well.
> 
> I just sold that house and next year when we build our new house I'm putting another Pellergy unit in it instead of the Harman.


 

Hows the maintenance on the flue? quite often?   Sounds like you have your plan dialed in by itself and ready to go!   No geothermal ??? Tons of tax incentives with that. Then have a gas backup for colder winter nights.


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## AndrewChurchill (Sep 19, 2012)

In the summer when I'm heating just DHW I clean it about every 6 weeks.  I'm figuring during the heating season I'll have to do it about every 3 weeks.  It takes about 10 - 15 minutes to clean it out and so far no ash has made it to the flue.  

The ash pretty much stays in the main combustion area and a very little bit has made it to the upper baffles.

As for geothermal, it doesn't make much sense up here in Vermont with the cost of electricity and the high upfront cost.  I received a $1000 rebate from Efficiency Vermont for the Pellergy unit.  I ended up paying about $6000 for the complete install.


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## jtakeman (Sep 19, 2012)

Well we know why it costs so much to heat!  Very nice place you have.


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## DexterDay (Sep 20, 2012)

Holy Chit! Nice set-up...  Nice, well, Everything 

Welcome to the Forums and keep the pics coming.

BTW- Are you an HVAC guy? Thats a serious job. I want to make a separate duct system for my Pellet Furnace, but dont know if I possess the skill needed. Also hardware stores around here dont have very large ducting. Need to find a good supplier.


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## Lousyweather (Sep 20, 2012)

Ejectr said:


> You want to make sure you seal the mating surface between the base of the exhaust nipple and the furnace enclosure with high temp silicon before putting on your stove pipe adapter and sealing that. Where the furnace enclosure goes around the bottom of the exhaust nipple, you'll see it falls short of touching the nipple around the whole diameter and not necessarily by the same amount around the diameter. Seal it, let it set and then put your stove pipe adapter on and seal the bottom of that to the bottom of the nipple with high temp silicon as well. The surface between the furnace enclosure and the exhaust nipple is notorious for leaking smoke into the area where the hot air exits and it will blow out the heat vents in your house and smell like smoke. Mine did it and a lot of others have as well. Why Harman doesn't seal that...I'll never know.
> 
> The other area to watch for smoke leakage in the vent system is the wripples in 45 degree and 90 degree connectors if you're using any. I had a 45 that was leaking in the wrippled seams so I sealed them with high temp silicone. I sealed all the pipe joints with metal tape. You want to seal the end of the clean out T with metal tape as well.
> 
> You probably didn't get the PB model because you wanted to keep the forced hot water heating system original with an oil burner. At least now you can take the PF100 with you if you ever sell your house.


 
all good advice on the pipe- here is better advice- use ICC pipe.


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## Ejectr (Sep 20, 2012)

_"EJECTR - Thanks for the tips on sealing the vent - I picked up some high temp silicone, and will be sure to lay a bead on all the gaskets on the exhaust."_

You're welcome. I wouldn't silicone seal all the gaskets on the exhaust venting. Use metal tape around the joints where the ends come together. That way if you ever need to get them apart, you will be able to. Just use silicone on the outside of the rolled over areas of the 45 and 90 degree connections if you see smoke coming out of them. Best seen by shining a bright light across the connectors with the rest of the room dark when you start the furnace and it is throwing smoke when the pellets start to heat before ignition.

You *DO* want to seal that exhaust nipple around the top of the furnace enclosure for sure with silicone.

Also make sure to shine a light on the combustion blower to make sure that seal is tight. That is a metal to metal seal. As a matter of fact...pull that blower out of its hole and make sure the set screw that holds the outside motor cooling fan on the motor's shaft is tight. Mine came loose and was hitting the cage.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks for the silicone/vent tips ...
How often do you/I check out the combustion blower? As per manual or have you needed more inspections and cleanings???

I'm not an HVAC guy, certified for refrigeration thats all - class of 09 from Maine Maritime Academy, just picked up some install tips here and there on the ships....I know the theory and can do the calculations of cfm/losses etc...Fortunately I have an understanding wife that knows the benefits of this huge install task. Thanks for the thumbs up on the house...its a lot of work an maintenance. Inch by inch it's getting to how we want it. perfect house for us in the meantime.

I started the return ductwork today...20x20 transition to 24x8...Put mastic on the joints, letting that dry overnight.
I also put together the main trunk and added mastic to that as well. Taping everything up when I get a chance. I love the 3M brand of foil tape.

I ran into an issue with my return from the 1st floor to the main line as you see in the pictures located in the basement. I am cutting in a section under my stairs to second floor (empty space) and cutting the subfloor between the joist.....most likely needing to do panning for appx 24" until I can attach to the 24x8 main return trunk in the basement. I would rather not use panning for those two feet...but  I plan to seal everything up best I can between joists and sheet metal. Any suggestions? No pics of the area yet, I'll get some up.
For now, here's my progress today. MESSY BASEMENT!!
Side note...check out my dads restored 1976 Moto Guzzi and all original 1968 Cadillac Sedan Deville


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## Ejectr (Sep 20, 2012)

_"How often do you check out the combustion blower? As per manual or have you needed more inspections and cleanings???"_
I clean it when I clean the furnace after I burn a ton of pellets.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 21, 2012)

So today we had two hours (my wife and I) free from our 4 month old...we were able to toss up some of the main trunks.
I figured out that you are supposed to toss up one piece at a time and connect them...Trying to hoist/hold up the whole trunk into position wasn't a good idea. have to re-mastic all joints. Then tape.

Here are our 2 hours worth of work. Any suggestions?


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## DexterDay (Sep 21, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> Here are our 2 hours worth of work. Any suggestions?



Yeah, here is a suggestion. You can come help with mine  

Looks like a Professional is in there. Very fine work. You should be proud.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 22, 2012)

A few questions...

1. The fan control switch - I installed it on the plenum today, along with adding my starting collars on the plenum....The settings for the fan control switch in the manual says to put both tabs together and line them up under the second '0' in 100. I understand this...However, is this typical for all homes regardless of size and CFM moving throughout the home? *Let me know what your fan control switch numbers are set at!! *Thanks

2. Adjusting the draft, It comes preset from the factory after testing to a somewhat desired setting - I don't have access to a manometer to check the WC. *How much/major does the draft setting influence the pf100 to the exact measurement?* Im sure I could get my oil guy to check it when he services my Buderus boiler....Any helpful suggestions are encouraged.

3.  My overhead clearances are sufficient above the furnace....I mounted a carbon and smoke alarm above/near the furnace...and a fire extinguisher...but *should I also mount a fire block board or cement board 4'x4' or something directly above the furnace to hinder a direct radiant heat to the room directly above (kitchen)?*

4. *Fireblock ... should it be used at all around the wall thimble*??

5. Best way to finish around the duct work going overhead from drywalled basement ceiling through first floor? Its ugly with just a hole and a gap between metal and dry wall..

Tomorrow my plan is to mount and wire the wall thermostat...What an ugly piece that thing is....and I'll be double checking my vent exhaust and double check my pipes as *Ejectr *stated, thanks for your help.

Here's the work accomplished today...
I had a lot of cuts and bending I had to do myself for the drive cleats and entire pieces, the duct shop was closed this weekend.

Ugly wall thimble, I know.


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## Ejectr (Sep 22, 2012)

1. That fan control setting in the book made my circulating fan stay on all the time. I talked to Harman about it and they gave me a setting that basically has it cycling on a few minutes and then off a few minutes. I think the low setting is 125 and the high is 160. I'd have to look to make sure. You can start out with their recommended, but one size doesn't fit all and you can try different settings to see what works for your house. The fan control is usually mounted on the face of the duct that is on the same side as the ash clean out door. Yours looks like it's on the side where the exhaust pipe is. It's OK but not as easy to get to to mess with the settings.

2. There is a special meter that is used to set the draft of the PF100 according to the voltage it sees at the ESP sensor in the exhaust. It's not just an inches of mercury setting. People who service Harman's should have them. I'd hire Scott Williamson that's on line here and have him come up from MA to do the first fire and set it up right for you.

3. I don't have any sheet rock over the top of my PF100. Just craft faced insulation that is between the floor joists. If it heats the floor above it....heat is heat. let it do so.

4. That thimble looks like it's going through concrete. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about fire block there. Mine goes out the sill of the house between two floor joists and all there is is proper air spacing from the pipe.

5. Make a flange/moulding out of the same material as the duct to put around the duct going through the dry wall like a moulding to cover the gap..Something that will stay in the gap with just the tension between the moulding and the dry wall or secure it to the dry wall with dry wall screws.


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## exoilburner (Sep 22, 2012)

On mine the gap between the pointers is over the first zero of the fan/hi-limit switch dial.  I have the standard distribution fan which puts out less CFM than yours.  I have seen posts from PF100 owners with the larger distribution fan that have mentioned sometimes they feel cool air out of their duct registers when that fan is running.  My guess is with the higher CFM fan you may want to bump up the fan control pointers a bit if that happens.  My install manual says the fan control pointers can be adjusted if desired. 

My PF100 puts out a very consistant and warmer forced air than my oil burner.


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## Ejectr (Sep 23, 2012)

I have never used my PF100 high CFM fan on the "high" setting.  Low or medium and medium most of the time.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 23, 2012)

Fireside stove shop  http://www.firesidestoveshop.com/index.html     is here in Auburn, I believe he may be able to do the draft setting/measurement. I'll give him a call monday...if no luck then I'll talk to Scott, I just found his website, looks like quite the professional. The fan control should be mounted closest to the center as possible - usually the ash pan side due to ease of access....Hopefully with my fan control on the back side off center a bit should still get mixed/adequate sensing. 

More of a guess and check for the fan cut in and out then huh? Thanks for the tips.

I stayed with the 1450 blower - I believe when I looked up the specs for the 3 speed the medium speed running amps were a touch higher. Although its a nice convenience to control the CFM a bit more with the 3 speed.

Anyone use an air to water (either radiator type heat exchanger or drill holes and run pipe through the pf100 heat exchanger area) to get radiant or heat domestic hot water??? How about the optional AC coil? If so, any issues with condensation?


*Exoilburner* ... You said you have an oil burner as well - How much has your PF100 offset the use of your oil burner?? What is everyone doing to heat their hot water tank? Mine is a zone off the Buderus oil...

Gotta grab some beers and get to work in the basement. Pics tonight.


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## DexterDay (Sep 23, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> I'll talk to Scott
> 
> Gotta grab some beers and get to work in the basement. Pics tonight.



Your gonna fit right in. . . .  

Grabbin beers at 8:00 a.m..... Yep, welcome to the club 

Your doing a great job on your install. My furnace is totally different, so my input may be swayed from your results. But my temps are set at 160° and 120° (give or take a little). Is the Harman controller made by Honeywell? Just wondering if it uses the same unit? Also my Distribution blower is much smaller at 800 CFM. 

Good luck and Cheers!


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## ekarlis (Sep 23, 2012)

If you have a hot water boiler & want to add a/c. Look into the ductless mini systems.
The indoor units hang near the ceiling & the outdoor unit handles 5-6 indoor units They
are also heat pumps that heat in the winter. You can turn off units in rooms that are not
occupied. I know that the heat pumps are not good for the New England areas, but the
a/c one would work great. Every home is different, so call a contractor & ask a lot of
questions.


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## exoilburner (Sep 23, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> Fireside stove shop http://www.firesidestoveshop.com/index.html is here in Auburn, I believe he may be able to do the draft setting/measurement. I'll give him a call monday...if no luck then I'll talk to Scott, I just found his website, looks like quite the professional. The fan control should be mounted closest to the center as possible - usually the ash pan side due to ease of access....Hopefully with my fan control on the back side off center a bit should still get mixed/adequate sensing.
> 
> More of a guess and check for the fan cut in and out then huh? Thanks for the tips.
> 
> ...


 
I use my PF100 exclusively.  I only use my oil burner as a back-up heat source.  The PF100 is like having a wood fireplace in every room; nice even wood heat. 
When my oil burner kicks on rooms feel cool and when it cuts out it is almost too warm (after the oil guy readjusted the thermostat too).  The PF100 works as advertised; room temperature stays very even.  I believe it stays within a degree.

I wondered about heating the hot water tank with the pellet furnace but all the ideas in the posts I have seen didn't really get any traction.  My hot water tank is electric; our electricity rates here in Washington State are pretty low by comparison.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 23, 2012)

I initially looked into the mini-split systems. For the capacity/load of my home and the unit(s) it'd need...and also needed to be 230/240volts...it'd be more of an electricity burden than pellets.
The included heat strip and reverse heat pump is ideal for mid eastern coast states for heating... They are however perfect for AC in the new england area for sure.

End of the day report:

Exhaust vent complete. No leaks. ExcelPellet PL type SS double lined Made in Canada .... really nice stuff. High type rtv silicone everything
Used high temp spray paint same color as my cedar siding - painted the wall thimble on the exterior side.
I bought a 'tee' a few weeks ago and didnt realize I can only mount it one direction....it looks useless where it is now, it was not my intention to have it like that. I'll also need another 12" section to raise it up a bit....however we don't get snow in that area of the house because of the eves and usual wind direction.

I added mastic on the plenum and the 6' takeoff from the plenum to the kitchen kickspace....I also have a manual damper in that line since the kickspace register will only have fixed blades on the grill.
Taping all joints that are set in mastic in the morning.

Installed the thermostat on first floor next to my oil thermostat.
For an MSRP of over $5,000 you'd think Harman would include a digital thermo...I understand why they dont though.

I am very impressed with Harman's installation instructions (Manual could be more technical) and ease of use for everything that came with the PF100...easy installing most everything thus far.

I, however, am not a fan of all the leaks the unit has. I turned on the air blower and a lot of air leaked from the corners and through the "HARMAN" window...whats up with that? I guess I don't need to run a takeoff from the main trunk to heat my basement ... it'll get enough hot air from these leaks on the pf100.

I got excited, and with disregard to what I was told today for the first burn (told to wait and check the draft)......I had to try it out. Loaded a bag of "Maine Choice" in the hopper and let 'er rip. Burns great...I found that the blower at 100degrees is too cool to move air through the house, almost has a chill to it. Although Im not done piping in the registers...so I'll mess with the fan control later this week.
Goal is to be done by this Friday.

Plumber scheduled in the morning....Pipes need to be rerouted and raised into the joists so I can install my return air line from the 1st floor down to the main return trunk. i don't feel like wasting time soldering and dealing with that.
I am doing a single return...middle of the house where I have cathedral ceilings...should be a good setup. I'll get pics of that tomorrow if/when Im done with the return.

For now, here's the work  I did today....and my 2 year 150lb saint bernard. Excuse the mess in the outside area...landscape work in progress as well.
Suggestions/comments please.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 23, 2012)

exoilburner said:


> I use my PF100 exclusively. I only use my oil burner as a back-up heat source. The PF100 is like having a wood fireplace in every room; nice even wood heat.
> When my oil burner kicks on rooms feel cool and when it cuts out it is almost too warm (after the oil guy readjusted the thermostat too). The PF100 works as advertised; room temperature stays very even. I believe it stays within a degree.
> 
> I wondered about heating the hot water tank with the pellet furnace but all the ideas in the posts I have seen didn't really get any traction. My hot water tank is electric; our electricity rates here in Washington State are pretty low by comparison.


 

Thanks for the encouragement, Thank you! I can't wait to have the heat start pumping into all my living space rooms....!
I'll have to deal with burning 50gallons a month in oil for the hot water tank ... my wife loves to do laundry (hot washes) and my newborn needs all that hot water too!! yikes!


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## sinnian (Sep 23, 2012)

Do yourself a favor and extend the vertical rise.  You may "feel" that you have enough draft now, but if there is a power failure, and your generator does not kick on (or in time) you are going to see and smell just how leaky the PF100 is.

Personally I would run it past your roofline.


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## sinnian (Sep 23, 2012)

Also call Steve at SIB's and order the remaining pellets from him.  I personally like the MWP Softwoods, and Steve's prices include delivery.

http://site.sibwoodpellets.com/Home.php


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## Ejectr (Sep 24, 2012)

I slipped a piece of glass into the door window from the outside and high temp siliconed it in place with a little room for expansion so it wouldn't crack. No more air out the window. I also went around the furnace enclosure and siliconed all the seams that leaked air. After that, you don't get any air leaking out. The radiant heat from the furnace itself will heat your basement and if you don't cover all that duct work you've installed with insulation, you will be losing a lot of heat to the basement there as well.

Where you mounted the thermostat....if you find that the temp in the room is several degrees off from your setting on the thermostat, try mounting it up on a couple pieces of Styrofoam as stand off spacers to the wall. The spongy, solid type Styrofoam, not the pebbly stuff. That worked for me and got me to about 1 degree difference and I trimmed that with the manual temp setting knob on the furnace control panel a little at a time until a digital thermometer in the same room as the thermostat and the temp set on the thermostat agreed.

You should try running your circulating fan on all the different speeds. Sometimes the highest is not the best. It may move the air around the house faster and get it up to temp faster, but it cools the air more than a slower speed as well.

You can hook a digital thermostat in series with the Harman thermostat so it runs more like an oil furnace...on to heat up and off when reached temp, but that will raise hell with your igniter always starting and stopping the fire. I think it also defeats the purpose of how the furnace is supposed to run. The digital will serve as a switch to complete the circuit for the Harman thermostat. Then when the set temp is reached, the digital will open thusly opening the circuit that the Harman has to the furnace through the digital. You would set the Harman to any temp that will allow it to turn on and burn. The actual control of burn/no burn will be the digital opening and closing when the set temp is reached or falls. I personally wouldn't do it, but it can be done.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks for the tips & pointers with everything *EJECTR* and *SINNIAN*
I'll be giving Steve a call, thats a great deal and you cant beat delivery! Putting 1 ton in the back of the Avalanche isn't my favorite idea.

Got up at 5 this morning, Wife told me I had to work downstairs instead of sipping a coffee and watching the news. So...she motivated me to tape everything I had together over the mastic...took a solid 2 hours. I also sealed up the pf100.

I ran the furnace to get some confidence in myself and listen to the noises the furnace makes....Sometimes it seems like a pellet gets in the auger or feed chamber sideways and makes a good clunking noise.

Basement got 80 degrees in no time - I still have my main trunk open to the basement area. Thats 2600sq ft. with another 480sq ft garage (connected to basement area, daylight basement) that got up to 76 degrees...
I am very impressed with the Harman PF100, the heat is constant, hot, durable and dependable thus far.

I know its a horrible idea and shouldn't be done - But for my own knowledge I hit the furnace cut out switch (I installed external away from the furnace on a bulkhead near the boiler shut off) to simulate a power failure.
I wanted to do this to see how the combustion gases would act ... the smells and smoke I'd see...
Test was a success...the flue/vent was so warm that it continued to pour outside - little smokey near the burn pot area. I waited 5 minutes. Turned the unit back on and away we went - back to getting the house toasty warm.

Someone said earlier that I should insulate my duct work... I believe I should as well, the duct work is very warm/sightly hot. Lots of heat loss here...However the heat is rising into the joists area and my tile floor upstairs gets a radiant heat effect.

I will be discontinuing my takeoff from the main trunk to the basement supply register and the garage supply register. There will be sufficient radiant heat from the ductwork and the pf100 in the meantime to keep the garage at 70.

yesterday plumber rerouted some supply water lines in the overhead basement and my bar sink drain overhead .... So that I was able to install the return line to the uppermost area to keep head clearance.

Today I'll be working on finishing the return duct work and installing a few kickspace boots and round pipe....Pics tonight.....Thanks guys.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 25, 2012)

Got all the floor registers in - except for the kickspace grills.
Got the trunk line going through the partition.
Got some of the return air trunk tossed up....Cut some holes for the return air from first floor.
And picked up the rest of the duct work I ordered that finally came in.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 25, 2012)

See pics.
Hopefully a big day tomorrow installing all the takeoffs and boots....and finish the return air.


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## mepellet (Sep 26, 2012)

Looks very nice! Nice to have different heating options isn't it?! Just curious how you did your heating load calculations? Did you do a block load for entire house and then divide the airflow among each room based on square footage?


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## smoke show (Sep 26, 2012)

Your an effin machine Mr. Prevost.


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## Eatonpcat (Sep 26, 2012)

smoke show said:


> Your an effin machine Mr. Prevost.


 
He needs a lesson on procrastination, givin' making lazy guys like me look bad!

Great looking work your doing!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 26, 2012)

Don't worry too much Eatonpcat as soon as he gets to be old like you he will be as lazy and slow as you also.  Likely he may have a few more aches and pains than you do as well.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 26, 2012)

*mepellet* - I did a few different layouts - first I knew I was going to get the PF100 without a doubt to supplement my Buderus G215. With the upgraded mid-range blower (1450 cfm) on the pf100, I calculated not only for 1cfm/sq ft....but then to which rooms we are in the most during the day and to maximize cfm supply to that space if 50% of all registers/dapmpers are closed. I did this to create warm spots in the house if my wife/daughter were cold or just for comfort in the mornings, etc..I definitely oversized my ductwork by 20%supply and 34% on the return...but this is also to allow for one install - down the road if I add another supplemental forced air unit or if I add a bigger blower, or even if I install an AC coil, I took into account the growth potential of the system while still maintaining proper system integrity/running amps/efficiency.
Check out the layout sketch I did - nothing fancy ... and a lot of mistakes, it was my first draft. 
But overall, 1cfm/sq ft on supply. on return air I just added 20% for the return air duct work size while maintaining an overhead clearance of 8'6" in my 9'6" basement to the bottom of the joists/pipes.

Today I spent most of the day with my family around the house....
However I was able to install the takeoffs to the den and master bedroom.
I also installed the return air duct - I made the return line - mastic everything this afternoon...tape tomorrow......For the return air, I punched through my subfloor between joists....using the area under my stairs as an "air box/plenum" just so I would NEVER hear a hum or hissing noise going through the return air grill. I wouldn't imagine I would anyways due to the proper sizing of the system, but oh well. I also have a filter prior to the blower...I will not have one on the return air grate. Total length of return air trunk is only 16' horizontals and verticals...so cleaning it down the road is no biggie. I'll be adding an access door/inspecting door on the return air trunk in a few months from now once my hands heal from all the sheet metal cuts from the burs and sharp edges.
Sorry the pics are dark, will get better ones soon.
Tomorrow I plan on getting at least three more supply takeoff lines done to the rest of the bedrooms..mastic them and clean the basement to find my tools.
Speaking of tools, my cordless dewalt tools have been a life saver...the grinder with a cut off wheel, saws-all and drill. I cheaped out (yes, cheaped out even after spending over $2500 in ductwork - I'll get a final number after I return a few extra pieces) and I never bought a shear cutting. I have 3 hand shears, but no pneumatic or electric....anyways, The dewalt grinder with the cut off wheel provided me with straight cuts, minimal burrs and it goes extremely fast cutting!!
For now, check out the progress.     Thanks everyone for the encouragement, ideas and chatting!
I am embarrassed at the duct hangers and the quick takeoff install job....I'll get around to adjusting everything soon...for now here are the pics...first one is the basement/garage elbow to bring it back up to the ceiling...most of the others are my work on the return box I made to go between the floor joists (panning...kinda) and down to a takeoff into my line return line. This eliminated a lot of funky elbows, cutting wall studs/removing more drywall.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 26, 2012)

mepellet said:


> Looks very nice! Nice to have different heating options isn't it?! Just curious how you did your heating load calculations? Did you do a block load for entire house and then divide the airflow among each room based on square footage?


 
here's my first draft and quick sketch of the lines - I changed quite a bit since. The circle in the middle is a garage supply that has since been removed from the plans.
I used a "DUCTULATOR" and a chart online for proper CFM sizing and what a rectangle size correlates to as round size, etc...
On this sketch I did not include cfm/room...thats on another sheet. As well as the length of each pipe/trunk and the calculations for my losses around the bends and after each takeoff.
If you would like to see my sketches of anything else, let me know, I can scan some stuff and post it on here for you.
I want to say thanks for whoever tossed up the plenum sketch a while ago - I modified the dimensions...but same Idea, I kept the space for the hopper door to open and the plenum is huge!
Im trying to use no flex lines more than 6" in each takeoff, if at all, everything will be hard pipe/trunks.


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## mepellet (Sep 27, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> I used a "DUCTULATOR"


Handy aren't they?


> Im trying to use no flex lines more than 6" in each takeoff, if at all, everything will be hard pipe/trunks.


You have the right idea on this one!  You probably found that the flex duct creates a lot of static pressure. 

Did you take the calculated static pressure and look at a fan curve to see what cfm you will actually get out of the fan is?  Do they provide you with a fan curve or at least a couple points along the curve?


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 27, 2012)

I calculated for SP...I can't tell you the exact and I looked at the curves on the dayton blower .... Its been a few weeks and I've been crunching numbers for the duct work sizes, etc. I found a good program on a website too that accounts for all the above, I'll try to find it again.

Today I finished the nursery, guest bedroom/playroom and guest bathroom. Did everything from the trunk to the takeoffs to the floor registers and boots.
I also installed the return air grill...painted it glossy black to match most of the contemporary look within the house.(minus the unfinished basement, hah...that'll be a project down the road)

I am pleased with the progress today. I have to get the rest done by this weekend....and plan on returning all extra ductwork on Monday...hopefully there will be over $200...then I can buy yet another pallet of pellets 

Tomorrow I am installing another supply trunk (16x8) that will supply the living room (10" round duct to a 4x14" floor register) and the dining room (8" round to a 4x10register) and the back lower entrance (6" round and a 2x10" kickspace register)
There will be a few starting collars, vertical elbows, flat elbows, some beers and cuss words in the works for tomorrow....

Pics of today's progress and tomorrows will be posted tomorrow sometime.....thanks for following up guys. I cleaned the basement a bit and got things lined up...two tons of pellets stacked so far....trashcan for the empty bags with scissors and a tool box of maintenance items, steel trashcan outside for the ashes, Fire extinguisher and smoke alarm & carbon alarm near the pf100......
My plumber suggested that we install a sprinkler system above the system....Scares me that if it ever goes off, basement will be flooded and tons of pellets would go to waste if it ever went off accidentally. Suggestions???

I definitely love burning the Maine Choice wood pellets (and MWP)! Tossed in 4 bags this evening...we are running the furnace (trying to dial in the temp/thermostat) tonight despite the drying time for the mastic...I'll foil tape the joints/seams in the morning.

Question ---- What is the replacement spec on the firebrick above the burnpot? Should I have an extra one on hand??


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## Ejectr (Sep 28, 2012)

What is the replacement spec on the firebrick above the burnpot? Should I have an extra one on hand?? [/quote said:
			
		

> Funny you should mention that. I was wondering the same thing yesterday when I was cleaning mine out for the coming season. I personally don't know. Looks like an ordinary fire brick to me, but knowing Harman....it's a special mix and you can only get it from them for $400.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 28, 2012)

hahaha - Gotta love the replacement parts...

here are the pics from yesterday.
This trunk is in the garage...there is a takeoff directly above that goes into a bedroom (can barely see it) and then the 8" takeoff on the end goes to another bedroom...the 6" takeoff going across the room is for the guest bathroom.
Today hopefully I install another takeoff and trunk off the plenum, run it to 3 rooms.
The other pic is the kickspace under the rear stair entrance...I boxed in the kickspace (hydronic blower) last year...It was perfect to punch a boot into it for this forced air install. I'll be connecting this 6" to the trunk I install today.
Used half a bag last night ----37 degrees outside, 73 degrees inside at living space. Basement and garage at 70, perfect 

Im trying to find a good adjustment to the fan control...seems like 100 degrees is too cold.120 the blower never kicks on except once every 4 minutes for 5 seconds...hmm...I'll need to dial that in. Suggestions?


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## Ejectr (Sep 28, 2012)

I have a White Rogers controller. Settings are 120 low and 160 high. Runs several minutes before shutting down for a few minutes. Haven't actually timed it. Your time should obviously be more than 5 seconds. make sure the auto/manual switch is all the way over to auto and the wheel is not stuck.


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## exoilburner (Sep 28, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> Question ---- What is the replacement spec on the firebrick above the burnpot? Should I have an extra one on hand??


 
Mine developed a hairline crack in the center after about 2 years. It continued to get longer and wider and I replaced it. It was covered under warranty and the dealer did not want me to return the bad one. They have always wanted the bad part returned immediately in the past.

Don't know what they cost; couldn't be too much.  Keeping a spare on hand would be a good idea; I always remove mine when I do the one ton full furnace and vent cleaning.  I remove my fire brick to vacuume and scrape it's bracket and behind it.  It would be easy to drop.  It's bracket makes a good trouble light holder when the brick is removed while you are cleaning the fire box & heat exchangers.

But with your oil furnace as a back up you could shut the pellet furnace down for a while and still have heat.  You may find that investing in spare parts may not be necessary.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 28, 2012)

Spoke with a Harman Rep here in town ---- He said its not worth having one on hand, hasn't seen a broken one in a long time....Cost is about $4 - $5 dollars each. They usually keep them available in most stores.

harman replacement service parts:         Fire Brick        12 x 6 x 1.25"          part number    3-40-86125    stocked at harmandepot-yes


here's a pricey one from online.....http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/939/735683/Unassigned/Harman-Fire-Brick.html


Good to know though! thanks for the input.....back to duct work I go....


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm finished with installing all the duct work!!

Pics later tonight.....I still have to adjust some hangers, tape a few duct work joints, patch some drywall, clean, etc....

I am pretty proud of the duct work install, quite the project the last two weeks.
I am highly impressed with the PF100 and extras (pelletexcel flue/vent, dayton blower, MWP)
I am very thankful and impressed with all of you and your help/encouragement and suggestions along the way Thanks guys...

I have about $400 worth of duct work to return...With the cash I get back I'll be getting another pallet or two to add to my two tons already. In November I'll be picking up 2 more tons after that.
Last night it went down to 45 here in town...I only went through half a bag in the hopper...house stayed 71-74 all night and day. Pretty impressive thus far of the systems (pf100 and ductwork) for the window sq. ft and tall ceilings in my house.



*Question for ya:*
What have people with the pf100 been seeing for electric use per month? I calculated increase of $15/month running 8hours/day with the amps it is drawing....I did not account for the combustion blower and the run time of that....
However my 6 circ pumps on the boiler and the feed pump/etc. on the boiler is probably $15/month when calculated......
So I personally shouldn't see an increase in power consumption.
How about you guys????


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## Ejectr (Sep 29, 2012)

I can't pick out the cost of the furnace in the electric bill, but I do know my electric bill was less than the year before using my oil hot air system.


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## mepellet (Sep 29, 2012)

You should be proud of all the work you have done with that system. I am pretty jealous. Would have taken me months.... looking forward to more pictures!


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 29, 2012)

Here are some pics....If anyone wants a layout diagram, closeups or whatever...let me know..
Any other suggestions besides have a few beers and celebrate...or clean the basement...let me know. Thanks.

As I said, messy basement...Have to finish taping, straitening some runs/takeoffs/hangers....
Now its time to start framing in the duct work and the partitions in the basement for the theater room ... ahhh that'll be nice, tax return fund project.
The garage, side storage room off the garage (started to drywall and install an electric fireplace in the corner)..won't be needing that...and basement.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 29, 2012)

and more...


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## DexterDay (Sep 30, 2012)

To not be an HVAC guy. That is amazing. I installed my Pellet Furnace last year. All I did, was duct it into the existing. Ductwork. 

BTW- Thanks again mepellet for all your assistance.


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## mepellet (Sep 30, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> To not be an HVAC guy. That is amazing. I installed my Pellet Furnace last year. All I did, was duct it into the existing. Ductwork.
> 
> BTW- Thanks again mepellet for all your assistance.


Still thanking me? All I did was a calculation. You and others have helped me out a lot more than that! So thank you dexterday 

Alain, you may have already answered this but are you planning on insulating the ductwork?


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 30, 2012)

I won't be able to insulate for another few weeks...have some other projects and my real job to do.

What do you suggest for insulation? I'd only be doing the plenum, the long trunk runs (three of them) and the 10" pipe......(everything but the takeoffs)

What do you suggest? I'm assuming this type:



Just use foil tape to seal the seams...probably get 2' width for easier handling..maybe 4' but more cutting.
I believe they also make like a bubble wrap that has foil tape on it already that sticks right on...more flame retardant...
Any suggestions?


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## Alain S. Prevost (Sep 30, 2012)

Also....
what are the settings on your PF100???

Feed rate and Temp knob...along with wall mount thermostat?   If I dial up or down on the temp dial on the pf100 controller, will that calibrate the wall mount +/- 1 2 or 3 degrees/steps? Or keep in the normal settings and adjust temp dial only for servicing?


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## Alain S. Prevost (Oct 2, 2012)

Got another pallet of pellets..MWP this time......3 tons so far....Ill be getting 4 pallets delivered late November.

here's some pics of a furniture dolly - from the bed of the truck to the dolly in the garage, through a few doors and into the basement to be stacked.
Some more pics of the full hopper and the hopper lid opened near the plenum.
Unit runs for about 45 minutes around 4am...blower runs for about 2 hours hot air....House feels great @73...only use about 1/4 of a bag each morning thus far....im sure it'll start chewing


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## Ejectr (Oct 2, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> Also....
> what are the settings on your PF100???
> 
> Feed rate and Temp knob...along with wall mount thermostat? If I dial up or down on the temp dial on the pf100 controller, will that calibrate the wall mount +/- 1 2 or 3 degrees/steps? Or keep in the normal settings and adjust temp dial only for servicing?


 
When I started out, I put all the settings on the recommended settings in the manual and the thermostat on 70. I found that the thermostat was 3 degrees off (low) from the room temp. I mounted the thermostat on a couple of spoungey styrofoam stand offs to get it away from the wall and that made the thermostat setting about 1 degree off from the room temp.

I called Harman and talked to a guy in their tech department about how this furnace works, because theory of operation wise, the manual leaves everything to be desired. Basically, it sucks. He told me to adjust the temp knob on the furnace to trim the thermostat temp to agree with the room temp. The temp knob operates in auto mode as well as manual. The feedrate adjustment just adjusts how high/hot the furnace runs on a call for heat. Once it reaches temp, the ESP takes over the feed regardless of what it is set on.

He also told me do NOT slip the thermostat knob to agree with the room temp. Leave it where it is and use the temp knob to trim it.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Oct 2, 2012)

Ejectr said:


> When I started out, I put all the settings on the recommended settings in the manual and the thermostat on 70. I found that the thermostat was 3 degrees off (low) from the room temp. I mounted the thermostat on a couple of spoungey styrofoam stand offs to get it away from the wall and that made the thermostat setting about 1 degree off from the room temp.
> 
> I called Harman and talked to a guy in their tech department about how this furnace works, because theory of operation wise, the manual leaves everything to be desired. Basically, it sucks. He told me to adjust the temp knob on the furnace to trim the thermostat temp to agree with the room temp. The temp knob operates in auto mode as well as manual. The feedrate adjustment just adjusts how high/hot the furnace runs on a call for heat. Once it reaches temp, the ESP takes over the feed regardless of what it is set on.
> 
> He also told me do NOT slip the thermostat knob to agree with the room temp. Leave it where it is and use the temp knob to trim it.


 



Thanks, much appreciated...I'll keep feed on 4.5 or 5 for the current pellets I'm using...trying not to overshoot the process too much, and I'll need to guess and check the temp dial...probably move it to 5.

Thanks for your help.


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## Ejectr (Oct 2, 2012)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> Thanks, much appreciated...I'll keep feed on 4.5 or 5 for the current pellets I'm using...trying not to overshoot the process too much, and I'll need to guess and check the temp dial...probably move it to 5.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


 
Any time.  Where are you in Maine?  My son lives in Lincoln and my sister lives in Brunswick.  Couple of nieces around the Portland area.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Oct 4, 2012)

i'll be researching a humidification system for the pf100...a whole house install (right in the plenum) to be on when blower is running.

I'm also going to be looking into wiring a "Status" led light upstairs next to or on the Harman thermostat....I want to be able to see if it is igniting/process starting when I turn the thermostat up or down. I cant hear the auger or anything when the pf100 starts...unlike my oil boiler...cha-ching cha-ching$$


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## bill3rail (Oct 4, 2012)

Damn!  Without PICs, everyone would be stating...




I guess it definitely happened!

Congratulations and best of luck on your house and newest addition of a pellet boiler the baby!

Bill


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## scra99tch (Dec 31, 2012)

Nice Guzzi in those pics!  Have a couple myself (obviously 1 needs to be in pieces all the time though).  Good job on install.  I am looking into getting a PF100 here soon but the is a 30% rebate for NH on bulk fed systems but a clause that is in the rebate says everything should be installed by professional which I am not.


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## Alain S. Prevost (Dec 31, 2012)

scra99tch said:


> Nice Guzzi in those pics! Have a couple myself (obviously 1 needs to be in pieces all the time though). Good job on install. I am looking into getting a PF100 here soon but the is a 30% rebate for NH on bulk fed systems but a clause that is in the rebate says everything should be installed by professional which I am not.


 
There are a good handful of installers on here that will toss it in for you. There is a lot of prep work you can do in the meantime saving huge money ... get friendly with the local place you purchase the pf100 from and tag team the install with him ... more than likely he'll take 50% off the install bill for you being his helper. 
NH is great for the rebates....Need help with the pf100 give me - or any of the other Harman guys a shout. the pf100 is a great unit...very happy.  Thanks for the Guzzi thumbs up, my Dad is a big fan. are you on the wildguzzi forum???   Glad to see similar interests. Enjoy.


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## Dgbgraphix (Dec 6, 2013)

Alain S. Prevost said:


> A few more pics of the duct work. Ended up using mostly 26 and 28 gauge, some 30 gauge such as the floor boots. Today I just cut through all the wood and tile floors in the house (and 2 toe-space/kick-space) areas for the floor registers.




Not as extensive as yours but I'm half way through install on mine and also had to start with no duct work.


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## pen (Dec 6, 2013)

Since this thread is a toddler now, I'm going to shut it down.

If there is reason to open it back up versus starting a new thread, let me know and I'll do so. 

pen


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