# Screwed by firewood seller



## Nate Finch (Oct 4, 2011)

So I talk to a guy on craigslist from central Mass that has a pretty good price on firewood.  He says it's been seasoning for a couple years, and is mostly oak, so it sounds great, right?   He drops it off, and it's raining at the time, so I didn't look too carefully except to make sure it was the right amount, and it was.  I go out to stack it yesterday, and notice that it looks really fresh.  Not grayed, no checks in the end of the boards... so I whip out my moisture meter and split a piece.... off the charts (my moisture meter goes to 45%).  Split a couple more to make sure I'm not crazy... same thing.

So I call the guy up and ask what the deal is... turns out, the wood has been *cut down* for 2 years, but stored log-length and was only split 3-4 months ago.  

I was flabbergasted.  I tried to tell the guy that wood seasons incredibly slowly at log length, and that what he sold me is basically green wood.  There's no way I burn something at 45% moisture rating this year.  I'm not sure I could even get it to light.

He said everyone does it that way, and that if I just stack it, it'll be fine in a couple months... which is obviously BS.   He offered to have the boss call me back, so I said ok.  We'll see what comes of it.  Probably nothing.  $600 worth of wood I can't burn this year.  Fantastic.

If you're looking for firewood in Mass, avoid the guy with the phone number ending in 0596.

-Nate


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## dannynelson77 (Oct 4, 2011)

Yup......seasoned to these firewood sellers means its been cut for a season............split just yesterday!


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## spacecowboyIV (Oct 4, 2011)

Its said on this site over and over again that this is how firewood sellers advertise their wood.  I'm not suprised at all at your results especially given that you admit you got a great price.

If a seller had to season split wood for 2 years before selling he would have to keep 600 cords c/s/s in single rows all the time (assuming yearly sales of 200 cords).  Imagine the land that would require not to mention all the extra work; given that scenario I would expect to pay double the going rate.

I agree that advertising it as seasoned isn't right, but unfortunately that's the name of the game.


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## muncybob (Oct 4, 2011)

Never...ever...take seasoned for what it should mean.
I always used to ask when it was split, thankfully I don't need to buy it anymore. 
My first year I had a referral from a friend at work....wood was OK but it was short in amount. I did call and was told they would come by to look at it. Nothing ever happened and I didn;t want to rock a friendship so I had to let it go.


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## bogydave (Oct 4, 2011)

That's typical of firewood sellers.
Your situation is repeated here many times. 
It would be difficult for sellers to store wood for 2 or more years to season it properly to be able to burn it on delivery day. 
They'd need acres of space with wood stacked in single or loose double rows. Making it cost even more. 
It's one of the things wood-burners have learned, if you want well seasoned wood, season it yourself.
I learned to buy in the off season, spring & summer, I got better prices on "log length" loads then CSS it myself.
It is a bit misleading & we all understand your frustration, "seasoned wood" does not mean it dry enough to burn.

Hopefully you'll find some other supplier with some dry or faster drying wood to get you thru this year.
In 2 years you're going to have some premium fire wood.
Someone may chime in with a source of dry wood, but it's firewood season, the demand this time of the year is high.   

Good luck


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## maple1 (Oct 4, 2011)

spacecowboyIV said:
			
		

> Its said on this site over and over again that this is how firewood sellers advertise their wood.  I'm not suprised at all at your results especially given that you admit you got a great price.
> 
> If a seller had to season split wood for 2 years before selling he would have to keep 600 cords c/s/s in single rows all the time (assuming yearly sales of 200 cords).  Imagine the land that would require not to mention all the extra work; given that scenario I would expect to pay double the going rate.
> 
> I agree that advertising it as seasoned isn't right, but unfortunately that's the name of the game.



Wouldn't take that much room -  an acre with piles of wood 6 ft high with as much air space between the rows as the width of the rows themselves would amount to 1000 cords. Might be more work, but they should be able to get a premium for it if it is truly seasoned, and they advertise it like that.

Agree wholeheartedly that advertising this as seasoned isn't right - but if it's the way everyone sells you're kinda stuck, especially if you were there when it was delivered and didn't raise any flags. The 'right' thing to do is to be buying wood you won't burn until two years from now - then you can take advantage of cheaper green wood. But that's not always possible for everyone though.


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## gpcollen1 (Oct 4, 2011)

It is well known in these forums...many a wood dealer splits wood from log length to order.  Good for fireplaces but not for wood stoves.


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## Nate Finch (Oct 4, 2011)

I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff.  Most of it was from smaller places, but not all.  Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.  

And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood.  Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?

If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.


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## spacecowboyIV (Oct 4, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Wouldn't take that much room -  an acre with piles of wood 6 ft high with as much air space between the rows as the width of the rows themselves would amount to 1000 cords. Might be more work, but they should be able to get a premium for it if it is truly seasoned, and they advertise it like that.



The "domino" effect would keep me up at night.  Sure it stinks if your 1 cord pile falls over, but I imagine 1000 cords spaced 16" apart falling over would stop your heart.

No one is condoning this practice just recognizing that it is the way things are........how much do you want for that car?


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## Nate Finch (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry, I don't mean to get quite so worked up... it's just $600 I can't really afford to throw away.


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 4, 2011)

I looked at the add, and it is misleading....I'd either ask for a reduction on the price, or have him come pick it up and request your money back.
I ran into the same issue many moons ago....so, I now get my wood in the spring @ $175/cord c/s/d and stack it 18 months for the following year.
I think the best bet is to find a supplier that you can trust, and stick with him/her...not worth the hassle trying to save $15-$20/cord on using multiple suppliers.

Here is the add....left out the phone number

Call or email
(xxx)xxx-xxxx
all good, dry, hardwood. 
Will do special orders


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## Shari (Oct 4, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.



Nate,

No one is 'condoning' the practice.  They are just stating a fact.  What you were wanting was wood that was cut to length, split and seasoned (a year at least).  The best thing to do, as others have said, is season the wood yourself - then you know what you have.


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## maple1 (Oct 4, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff.  Most of it was from smaller places, but not all.  Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.
> 
> And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood.  Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?
> 
> If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.



I'm not condoning it - I think it is wrong (I think that's what I said above). But I'm not sure at this point what can be done about it. I hope you get somewhere with your phone call - keep us posted on that - but unless he's registered with the BBB (I doubt that?) and a BBB complaint can be filed, or something like that, it looks like it's going to be up to him whether to come clean or not. I don't think it's something you can get the law involved with to get made right - but I hope you get somewhere with it. Maybe it'll wake others up to what they're buying but not getting.


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## maple1 (Oct 4, 2011)

spacecowboyIV said:
			
		

> maple1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK - pile it 3 ft high & call it 500 cord. 

I guess my point was it wouldn't take a huge area of land to do it right - just some thought & planning.


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## mecreature (Oct 4, 2011)

I wouldn't expect any wood from a firewood seller to be seasoned. Everyone says it is, but it though. 

you should have your MM in hand when the truck pulls up. test it. if it is not up to spec then tell him to hit the road. 

Hell, you dont even need a MM, just split a piece or two.

I have considered buying some now for next year.. just a cord or two. Of cherry and ash. 100 bucks a cord.


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## basswidow (Oct 4, 2011)

Like others have said,  

This has repeated itself in many areas.  Sounds just like my first year.  I understand your anger.   I  bought 2 cords and the guy delivered one pick up load.  I laughed and said I would stack and measure it.  He was way short and 1/3 of it was pulp and wrot.  I set it aside and made him bring me another load.  He brought me a pick up of ash and took away the pulp.  He was still way short of 2 cords, but he was done with me and I was done with him.

These are the reasons most of us process and gather our own wood.

How many cords for $ 600?


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## CTYank (Oct 4, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff.  Most of it was from smaller places, but not all.  Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.
> 
> And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood.  Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?
> 
> If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.



Okay now, think about it for a bit. What would be a legal, enforceable definition of "seasoned"? (Clue: there is none.) So, you might drop it.

Were you to specify, say, <20% MC dry-basis, you could act on that, at point-of-sale and afterwards. Otherwise it's all he said/she said: BS.

Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be "green"- it'd be "wet." It's all about water-weight.


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## fireview2788 (Oct 4, 2011)

I got the same deal last year.  He said it was seasoned but when he dropped it off he said it was tree tops from a clear cut that had been down for the year and he just cut it.  I didn't know a thing about it so I thought it would be OK......it's wasn't but it is now.  I've got a cord of nicely seasoned hickory waiting to be tossed into my stove.  You said you can't wait so I would see what they offer.'



f v


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## smokinj (Oct 4, 2011)

Tar and Feather Season!  :cheese:


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## pen (Oct 4, 2011)

Unfortunately, the only solution is to keep at least 2 years of wood on hand (one ready for this year and one seasoning for the next) and do the seasoning yourself.  3 or more years if you are buying Oak.

It sucks the first year you do this as you have to pony up 2x the money.  But every subsequent year you have a quality product, will burn less since you are getting more of the btu's you paid for in heat rather than having them wasted by boiling the water in the wood off, your chimney will stay cleaner, and your stove will be more manageable.  

pen


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## remkel (Oct 5, 2011)

I see it time and time again- people buying wood for this season in August/September- a solution is to buy wood in March/April and get it stacked then. Usually it is the end of the burning season and you can get a decent price. If you get ahead a bit, then you have a rotation of piles to choose from.


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## krex1010 (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff.  Most of it was from smaller places, but not all.  Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.
> 
> And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood.  Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?
> 
> If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.



Nobody is condoning the practice, people are just telling you what the realities of buying firewood are. the term "seasoned" means different things to different people.  It sucks that your wood isn't burnable this year. Take it as a learning experience and just accept the reality of buying firewood. You have next years wood now, that's good, next spring buy another years worth and you will be ahead of the game.


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## krex1010 (Oct 5, 2011)

Oh and when buying firewood at this time of year I would actually recommend you avoiding the guys selling mostly oak, you probably have a better chance finding unicorns in your backyard than buying seasoned oak at this time of the year.


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## Gary_602z (Oct 5, 2011)

At least you got your measure!    So you are batting 50%

Gary


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## GatorDL55 (Oct 5, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

> Nate Finch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ohio has a law that dictates volume of measure and what seasoned means.  Problem is their definition of seasoned is way off base - http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/11/27/news/nh1739401.txt?viewmode=fullstory


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## rdust (Oct 5, 2011)

It's unfortunate although I'm not surprised.  As others have said finding truly seasoned wood this time of year is near impossible or you will pay a hefty premium.  

If you can line up some better wood try to get them to pick it up and spend your money elsewhere.  If you have to purchase wood and can only keep a seasons worth on hand try to purchase as early in the year as possible.


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## Hunderliggur (Oct 5, 2011)

" If firewood is advertised and sold as "seasoned," it must have a moisture content of less than 50 percent. " - From the Ohio law.  I guess I should cut some seasoned wood this winter and ship it to Ohio!  The premium for seasoned would cover the shipping ;-)


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## onetracker (Oct 5, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> That's typical of firewood sellers.
> Your situation is repeated here many times.
> It would be difficult for sellers to store wood for 2 or more years to season it properly to be able to burn it on delivery day.
> They'd need acres of space with wood stacked in single or loose double rows. Making it cost even more.
> ...



i don't know how i found this guy about 10 years ago...maybe an ad somewhere...who sold wood to all the wood-fired pizzerias in the area, a big one around here is called cosimos, and they guy had to keep, i dunno, hundreds of cords on hand just for that one customer, who by the way burned all year round. he said they needed their firewood DRY and split kinda small (at the time i had a small-medium firebox). when he delivered it, at something like $175/cord i about choked. bone dry red oak. he said it was stored inside, i'd bet with fans or something helping to dry it out. 

OT


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## NH_Wood (Oct 5, 2011)

You know, I have to wonder if these sellers actually know they are selling poor quality wood. It seems that the majority of wood burners I know have just as poor a view of what seasoned wood should be as the sellers that we complain about - I think we might be the few folks that really think about wood quality and why burning dry wood is best. Cheers!


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## weatherguy (Oct 5, 2011)

I think thats the same guy I talked to last April, I asked him when he cut the wood and he said two years ago, then I asked him when he split it and he said last week, I said no thanks. Its on us to ask these questions because seasoned is a vague term. 
The guy told me the same thing too, it will be ready this year. I think he burns a smoke dragon and doesnt understand how new stoves work.
I have a guy in my town that has truly seasoned 2+ years wood but he wont deliver to your town. His family owns a lot of land and they have a huge pile of wood.
Theres another place that sells dry wood by the pallet closer to you but it comes to about $300 a cord.


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## CTYank (Oct 5, 2011)

Hunderliggur said:
			
		

> " If firewood is advertised and sold as "seasoned," it must have a moisture content of less than 50 percent. " - From the Ohio law.  I guess I should cut some seasoned wood this winter and ship it to Ohio!  The premium for seasoned would cover the shipping ;-)



Yeah, that 50% requirement would be really reassuring. Probably wet-basis besides (knocks the #s down some.)

So, it's not totally meaningless, but is totally useless. Maybe it figures into Ohio's ideal about selling by weight.

Anyone figured out yet that maybe 95% of wood-vendors are thieves? Buyers need a vendor-rating system on Angie's.


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## snowleopard (Oct 5, 2011)

Hate to say it, but most of us who have bought can exchange war stories.  I don't even try to buy seasoned--just try to get it before the sap rises in the spring, and plan on seasoning it myself.  And I STILL got burned on wood (cut too long, and got shorted in one delivery).  Trust us, those of us who've been burned don't condone this.   The most reputable wood sellers around here flat out recommend the same thing in their ads--it just makes good sense.  

A good rule of thumb I've seen here is to just buy one cord from a seller, and make future purchase decisions based on the overall transaction.


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## begreen (Oct 5, 2011)

Bummer Nate, but cheer up. You have a good investment in next year's wood. See if you can find a decent wood seller in your area. But before you accept a load, take a few splits off the pile and check them. Resplit them on the spot and test the fresh wood surface. If it's good, tell them you accept. And if it's wet, tell then to get packing. 

Also, you have BioBricks and Hearthwise pressed logs available in your area that can provide clean dry heat guaranteed.


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## woodchip (Oct 5, 2011)

Remkel said:
			
		

> I see it time and time again- people buying wood for this season in August/September- a solution is to buy wood in March/April and get it stacked then. Usually it is the end of the burning season and you can get a decent price. If you get ahead a bit, then you have a rotation of piles to choose from.



I can think of several reasons why this is a good time to buy wood. 

1 - a wood dealer may be open to reasonable offers, as few people buy at this time, and the cash may come in handy.

2 - You have all Summer to season the wood a bit.

3 - The wood will probably have been cut through the Winter with the sap down. That gives you a drier wood to start off with. 

That's my thoughts for what they're worth


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## oldspark (Oct 5, 2011)

The sap thing does not amount to a hill of beans, time, wind, sun, and single rows are your friend with the type of wood coming into play also for anyone needing a quick fix.


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## Jack Straw (Oct 5, 2011)

Around here people would complain if they sold wood that is too dry. :roll:  I cannot discuss my 2 year wood drying with anyone around here. I am the crazy guy who is cutting wood for 2 years from now! You cut it in the spring and burn it in the fall or you cut ash now and burn it this winter (as I am told by my relatives). Someone recently said "I split that willow and got it right into the woodshed so I can start burning it this fall."


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## Danno77 (Oct 5, 2011)

This stinks, Nate. Please report back so we know if and how this was resolved.

I know I've said this before, but the word seasoned doesn't mean squat. I usually liken it to meat. If you tell the chef you want your steak "cooked" that doesn't mean squat to him. Cooked for 1 minute on a warm skillet? Cooked on high for two hours until it's crunchy? Both are cooked. Same goes for wood. It's seasoned if it was split a week ago, it's seasoned if it's been lying in log form for a month. It's seasoned if it was CSS four years ago on my property in a windy and sunny location.

A better practice is to always ask specific questions about the wood. When it came down, when it was bucked and when it was split. If they have a MM then even better.

My wood guy splits it from rounds that he usually has lying in a ditch for a few months and then brings it to me. I know it isn't seasoned, but at least I know that going into it. He doesn't know much about seasoning wood, but I do, so it's ok, lol.


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## wood-fan-atic (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> I got plenty of reasonably seasoned wood last year (not perfect, but not 45%), and most of it cheaper than what I was paying for this stuff.  Most of it was from smaller places, but not all.  Calling stuff split 3-4 months ago "seasoned for 2 years" is an outright lie.
> 
> And I don't care how hard it is to actually sell seasoned wood.  Does that mean I can sell a car that I say gets 100 miles to the gallon, and it's ok, because that's too hard to actually achieve?
> 
> If it's split to order, it's not seasoned, not even a little.  Calling it anything but green is ridiculous.  I'm surprised you guys are condoning the practice.



_ REALLY??!!_  Someone is selling wood as "seasoned", and it was actually green? _NO WAY!!_  I can't believe it! I WONT believe it!!
 But seriously.... I agree with you. It is an outright lie, and when it happened to me once, and I bitched about it here, I,too, was surprised at the responses I got. It seemed to me, also, that folks were condoning the behavior. As it turns out, it is just _EXPECTED_ that wood sellers all lie, and that the only way to have truly dry wood , is to do it yourself. In any other walk of life - if you get ripped off, and tell people about it, you expect them to sympathize with you. In the woodburning community, if you get suckered into buying green wood, the only place you'll find sympathy is in the dictionary ---- right between $h*t and syphallis. Well, Nate, any of us that HAVE actually had this happen to us DO sympathize with you. It sucks. And its not right. And it will continue to happen. :shut:


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## Nate Finch (Oct 5, 2011)

For those asking, I paid $240 a cord.  That's a lot more than I paid last year for stuff that was drier, but maybe I just got lucky last year. 

I did ask about the wood, but I guess I didn't use the magic word.  I asked how long it had been been cut and seasoned, he said 1-2 years.  I'm not sure I asked specifically when it had been split, it never occurred to me that anyone would consider unsplit wood "seasoned".  

When I called the guy back, he said it was definitely seasoned for two years, and I said "Sorry, but no way this has been split for 2 years" only then did he then say it was split 3-4 months ago. 

And yes, I should be seasoning it myself, I know.  Last year we'd just moved into the house, this summer we just had our first baby.  

Somehow, I'll find the time this fall to split the stuff I have cut on our property so I don't have to go through this again next year... even if the wood isn't perfect next year, it's probably better than anything I could buy.  And somehow I'll try to split enough for the year after as well.  

When can kids start helping stack wood?  Is 8 weeks old too early?


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## Battenkiller (Oct 5, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Bummer Nate, but cheer up. You have a good investment in next year's wood.



And that's perhaps the wisest response so far. 

It ain't gonna go bad by next year, and if you got a good count at a fair price for green wood, you aren't getting screwed anymore than anyone purchasing green wood in the spring at the same price.  Disappointed, yes... screwed, no.  In the current marketplace, maybe the best way for your money to return a good investment is to buy wood green and sit back and watch it gain in value.  Prettier looking than a stock portfolio for sure.


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## Battenkiller (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> For those asking, I paid $240 a cord.
> 
> When can kids start helping stack wood?  Is 8 weeks old too early?



OK... simultaneous posting.  Didn't know what you paid when I posted the above comment.

$240/cord is pretty high for green wood in these parts, so I'd feel kinda screwed myself.  What are guys asking for green in your area?  I have paid as high as $240 for 4 cord of freshly-cut white ash (at least it was somewhat burnable), but that was the year a local paper mill reopened and was paying the tonnage equivalent of $180/cord for logs.   All the bigger wood guys were just bringing logs to the mill rather than c/s/d the stuff for a little more money, leaving the little guys out there gouging us on the firewood.  Things have evened out now, and $150/cord is the going fair rate for green.

BTW you can never start 'em too young.  All of mine began_ in utero_... with Mom's help, of course.


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## Chettt (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate cross stack and cover it and think about using it next year. If you can afford it, buy two more cords and set those aside for 2013. Start looking for softer wood now that dries quicker, scrap wood from construction sites and maybe a pallet of biobricks. We've all been there and we all learned from it. Congratulations on having a baby.

One other thing, try holding off from burning till December. You really need the stove in January and February. These shoulder months work well with running the furnace once in the morning and once in the evening.


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## Nate Finch (Oct 5, 2011)

FYI I burn about 6-7 cords a year.  Luckily the guy's big truck was in the shop, so he could only drop off 2 1/2 at a time, so I had time to check it before he brought the other 4.5.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> For those asking, I paid $240 a cord.  That's a lot more than I paid last year for stuff that was drier, but maybe I just got lucky last year.
> 
> I did ask about the wood, but I guess I didn't use the magic word.  I asked how long it had been been cut and seasoned, he said 1-2 years.  I'm not sure I asked specifically when it had been split, it never occurred to me that anyone would consider unsplit wood "seasoned".
> 
> ...




Well that would depend on the Kid? lol, your on the right track and if its not oak by January that wood could still be ready. Nice Indian summer is here...


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## Nate Finch (Oct 5, 2011)

It's like 95% red oak.  Actually really nice wood.... in a year or two


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## Dune (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> Sorry, I don't mean to get quite so worked up... it's just $600 I can't really afford to throw away.



How many cord did you get for $600?

I am guessing two.


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## ChrisNJ (Oct 5, 2011)

NH_Wood said:
			
		

> You know, I have to wonder if these sellers actually know they are selling poor quality wood. It seems that the majority of wood burners I know have just as poor a view of what seasoned wood should be as the sellers that we complain about - I think we might be the few folks that really think about wood quality and why burning dry wood is best. Cheers!




I agree, everyone I talk to about firewood believes this, my experiences match the popular view on here and that s how I know the majority of sellers and burners who don't frequent this site are wrong, kinda sad actually.


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## maple1 (Oct 5, 2011)

The problem is the definition of 'seasoned'. Means one thing to some, another to others. That definition posted earlier (50% mc?) is all the sellers need to back up their case - unfortunately. If something like this did ever get to a judge, I think it would be game over at that point.

That sure seems like a seasoned price to me - ouch for green wood.

Good luck in the wood hunt.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> It's like 95% red oak.  Actually really nice wood.... in a year or two




Yea, that a tough one.....If I bought wood it would have to be oak free. Darn sure be shifting gears quick and check dealers for Ash, beech.


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## Bigg_Redd (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> So I talk to a guy on craigslist from central Mass that has a pretty good price on firewood.  He says it's been seasoning for a couple years, and is mostly oak, so it sounds great, right?   He drops it off, and it's raining at the time, so I didn't look too carefully except to make sure it was the right amount, and it was.  I go out to stack it yesterday, and notice that it looks really fresh.  Not grayed, no checks in the end of the boards... so I whip out my moisture meter and split a piece.... off the charts (my moisture meter goes to 45%).  Split a couple more to make sure I'm not crazy... same thing.
> 
> So I call the guy up and ask what the deal is... turns out, the wood has been *cut down* for 2 years, but stored log-length and was only split 3-4 months ago.
> 
> ...



So. . . . you've been a member here since August of last year and you're just now figuring this out?


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## Bigg_Redd (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> Sorry, I don't mean to get quite so worked up... it's just $600 I can't really afford to throw away.



You didn't "throw it away"

You just put it in a CD that is not redeemable till next winter.


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## krex1010 (Oct 5, 2011)

Everyone here needs to realize that when it comes to wood burning, we who really care about burning dry, quality wood, we who know what a properly installed woodstove looks like, we who actually enjoy all the work that comes with having quality firewood, we are without doubt the MINORITY.  Firewood dealers view us as that grumpy, impossible to please guy who like to complain and bust stones.  The majority of people who buy firewood are perfectly happy plunking down there money for short cords of wet wood.  So why would we expect a firewood dealer to cater to us? It doesn't happen and never will happen.


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## gpcollen1 (Oct 5, 2011)

Bummer for sure.  A few years back i was a bit short on wood and had some extra cash so I bought 4 cords, knowing I wouldn't use it all - but the guy had a truck that fit 2 cords and gave 4 cords to me for $700 instead of $800.  I asked when it was split and what kind of wood it was - it was split from log length int eh spring and was mixed hardwood at about 25% oak.  when it arrived some of it was better than others but it was all burnable - not like your wood.  BTW - I have had the experience of getting a load with some fresher oak in it before.  That is why I asked the last time...

1 - this experience is the best life lesson ever.  No where to go but up from here...

2 - You can split all that wood smaller and use it this year I bet...it will just be a pain in the butt to split and even to burn...but beats NO wood.

3 - You should not give up on scrounging craigslist.  I am going back for the second trailer load of standing dead ash today.  tree service dropped it but did not cut it up.  Total should be about 1.5-2 cords from 2 trees.  Split a few pieces yesterday and looks pretty good.  I could burn it this year but do not have to.  My neighbor is going to burn some...


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## weatherguy (Oct 5, 2011)

[quote author="CTwoodburner" date="1317846903"]Bummer for sure.  A few years back i was a bit short on wood and had some extra cash so I bought 4 cords, knowing I wouldn't use it all - but the guy had a truck that fit 2 cords and gave 4 cords to me for $700 instead of $800.  I asked when it was split and what kind of wood it was - it was split from log length int eh spring and was mixed hardwood at about 25% oak.  when it arrived some of it was better than others but it was all burnable - not like your wood.  BTW - I have had the experience of getting a load with some fresher oak in it before.  That is why I asked the last time...

1 - this experience is the best life lesson ever.  No where to go but up from here...

2 - You can split all that wood smaller and use it this year I bet...it will just be a pain in the butt to split and even to burn...but beats NO wood.

*3 - You should not give up on scrounging craigslist.  I am going back for the second trailer load of standing dead ash today.  tree service dropped it but did not cut it up.  Total should be about 1.5-2 cords from 2 trees.  Split a few pieces yesterday and looks pretty good.  I could burn it this year but do not have to.  My neighbor is going to burn some...[/*quote]


Was going to post this same thing, if you have access to a truck and you check craigslist a couple times a day you may be able to scrounge up a couple of seasoned cords for cheap or if your lucky, free. I bought 4 cords of seasoned oak last year from a pellet stove convert, he had 10 cords seasoned, 3 cords hickory, 7 oak, I bought 4 oak for $325. If I can make room Im going back for the rest.


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## spacecowboyIV (Oct 5, 2011)

Nate Finch said:
			
		

> When can kids start helping stack wood?  Is 8 weeks old too early?



Stacking wood should come around the 8 month mark.  Don't allow splitting until 11 months though, they just don't have the strength until then.  Always under supervision of course.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yg9GxL9iNWY/ToyL66Tb8ZI/AAAAAAAAAFc/XTePwlr9yA8/s640/100_2460.JPG


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## weatherguy (Oct 5, 2011)

spacecowboyIV said:
			
		

> Nate Finch said:
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 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## oldspark (Oct 5, 2011)

Cute picture spacecowboy but the least you could do is buy a lighter super splitter.


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## spacecowboyIV (Oct 6, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Cute picture spacecowboy but the least you could do is buy a lighter super splitter.



Don't be ridiculous that is much to sharp, a kid could really get hurt.


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## oldspark (Oct 6, 2011)

spacecowboyIV said:
			
		

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 I did not think of that, good point.


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## richg (Oct 6, 2011)

There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.


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## IanDad (Oct 6, 2011)

I have been buying wood for three years or so. Not once has it ever been anything close to being ready to put in the stove  on delivery. My experience is that it is impossible to even find anything close to dry wood. Woodsellers, for the most part, are grossly ignorant about their own product. As above, that's just something you  have to accept and act accordingly. My wife does not understand why I am buying/scrounging wood for next year NOW either. Shrug.


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## krex1010 (Oct 6, 2011)

richg said:
			
		

> There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.



Yes that's expensive, but when I think about how much time and effort I put into each cord of wood by the time it is ready to burn, that's probably what I would want to be paid for it.


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## CarbonNeutral (Oct 7, 2011)

Nate, I am the town over from you - I went through my first winter on scrounged split wood (people who didn't burn any more) by advertising on Craigslist and Freecycle. I also used pallets - the Kmart in Acton was okay with me taking the non blue ones, plus pallets from stonemasons (typically oak). We do have suppliers of kiln dried around here and Bio Bricks. 

When I drive along 2a and elsewhere, the towers of log length or mounds of splits where no air is getting to the center tell me all I need to know about 'seasoned' wood...

Good luck.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 7, 2011)

It is in the written instructions to my wife that the work I put into that wood means at the estate sale it starts at a grand a cord. Or just let it rot.


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## Biff_CT2 (Oct 8, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

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"What would be a legal, enforceable definition of "seasoned"? (Clue: there is none.) "

That is exactly wrong, at least in Connecticut.

Connecticut General Statute 43-27(a) defines "seasoned wood" as "any fuel wood which is cut and air dried for at least six months".
http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/connecticut/ct-laws/connecticut_statutes_43-27

FWIW, it's also illegal in CT to sell firewood by the truck load or the face cord.    

'Tis best not to piss off Mr. Blumenthal...


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## maple1 (Oct 8, 2011)

Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?


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## Dune (Oct 8, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?



Yeah, it means "cut", NOT cut, split and stacked.


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## maple1 (Oct 8, 2011)

So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?


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## smokinj (Oct 8, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?



Just depends if you selling or buying? ;-)


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## billb3 (Oct 8, 2011)

richg said:
			
		

> There is a place off of 206 in Hillsborough NJ that sells what is probably as close to seasoned wood as you are going to get from a vendor. The problem is thaqt their prices are simply insane....he wants $675.00 per cord. I want to know if that gets me a night alone with Christina Hendricks or Shania Twain.



Only if their car breaks down in the middle of a blizzard in front of your house and they have no where else to go.


I have 2 cords of  3 year old oak and I probably will use 3/4 cord maybe less if the pine, cherry and maple carry me longer than expected. It's certainly worth a lot more than the $225 " seasoned" oak that is being sold around here, but I doubt I could get more than that for it. After splitting it by hand and watching over it all these years I'm NOT selling it for $225. $675 would be a good starting point offer. 
The grocery store gets $8 a cubic foot.
Looks like sterile ash.


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## Biff_CT2 (Oct 8, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Is there a sub-definition for 'cut'?



No, "cut" is not defined.

But "'fuel wood' means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, chips or other wood, split or not split, natural or processed, which is advertised, offered for sale or sold as fuel", so I would understand that someone selling "fuel wood" that is "split" and "seasoned split" to have been air dried for at least 6 months - though you could argue otherwise.

It would be interesting to hop on West or Lexus and pull the legislative history.  I would expect to find support in the legislative history underlying the statue to support my understanding that seasoned, split fuel wood has been air dried for at least six months.

I also think this is an ancient statute.  Apparently the sale of firewood was important enough at one time that the statute provides for each town to appoint two residents as paid officials to monitor firewood seller compliance statute.

"The appointing authority of each town may appoint annually, and more often if necessary, two or more of its inhabitants to be measurers of wood offered for sale within the town, who shall be sworn and shall receive such compensation for their services as the town may prescribe"

... so if you been screwed in Connecticut by being sold unseasoned firewood, you can blame your town government for choosing to not appoint a pair of residents to monitor wood sales.  And to think, while we complain about excessive regulation and big government in CT, here's an example where we haven't regulated to extent provided by statute - and we have people complaining about experiencing the very harm the statute was intended to prevent... go figure.


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## Danno77 (Oct 8, 2011)

Biff_CT2 said:
			
		

> FWIW, it's also illegal in CT to sell firewood by the truck load or the face .


In my experience this is the case in most states. Anybody out there know of a state where it is not the case? It has to be one of the most widely broken laws with regard to selling wood around here. I think that most of the wood sellers around here are honest, but they just are poorly informed. Hardly any of them use the word seasoned, but most all of them sell by the truckload. If I mention to them that selling wood by the truckload is like selling grain by the wagon full they kinda get the jist of what I'm saying, but then they claim that buyers wouldn't know what they are talking about if they said cord. I can't really disagree with that.


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## smokinj (Oct 8, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

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You can sell one stick if you want to. A measure is what both partys agree to. Now the cofusion always comes from the guy who buys wood for heating. Its never enough.The guy who does it for himself always counts it x3. Tar and Feather season is here!  :cheese:


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## Biff_CT2 (Oct 8, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> So if a tree is CUT down and left there to dry - is that seasoning?



It depends.  If let the log air dry for at least six months and then sell it as a "seasoned" log, then yes.  If you let it sit for six months, then buck/split the log, and sell it as "seasoned" splits without allowing the splits to air dry for at least six months, then no. 

I understand the statute to mean, if you're selling "seasoned" logs, that the logs have been air dried for at least six months.  Likewise, I understand the statute to mean, if you're selling "seasoned" splits, that the splits have been air dried for at least six months.  I do not understand it to mean that you can allow a log to air dry for six months, split it, and sell it as "seasoned" split fuel wood.

Reasoning would be that, since "seasoned wood" means any fuel wood which is cut and air dried for at least six months or if sold by weight which is cut and air dried under cover for at least six months, and "fuel wood" means any kindling, logs, boards, timbers, chips or other wood, split or not split, natural or processed, which is advertised, offered for sale or sold as fuel, whatever you're selling has seasoned IN THE FORM IT IS SOLD for at least six months.

But there is a bit of ambiguity in the statute, so I'd need to look into it the legislative history and perhaps a bit of the caselaw as necessary.

I'm confident that at some point, some where, someone has tried to justify selling splits from a "seasoned" log as "seasoned" splits - and been told that doing so undermines the intent of the statute.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.


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## Danno77 (Oct 8, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> You can sell one stick if you want to. A measure is what both partys agree to


That's the problem, though. You can do that, but not legally. Most states (that I have seen) say that it has to be measured in Cords. If the buyer ain't mad about it then it just doesn't get reported.


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## smokinj (Oct 8, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

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Guess all the gas station grocery stores lowes home depot Menards, are all going to jail...Just saying! No law that I have ever heard of.


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## Danno77 (Oct 8, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Yeah, you are right, wonder why they are allowed to do that?


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## smokinj (Oct 8, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

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They clearly mark it as firewood...I would never sell to people heating there house. Just is not worth it to them or me. I will sell to bbq or the back yard burners only. Kinda a spin off quads gig. Small amouts only!


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## Danno77 (Oct 8, 2011)

Washington says this on their weights and measurements page: 
"Only packaged wood, such as kindling or a very small bundle of firewood, may be sold by the cubic foot or a fraction of a cubic foot."

Maybe other states do that, too. I don't remember Illinois saying that.


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## Wood Duck (Oct 10, 2011)

spacecowboyIV said:
			
		

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In a couple more months he'll be able to get the whole way through in one swing. Nice try, kid.


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## humpin iron (Dec 21, 2011)

This is why my wood is delivered in MARCH, not December!


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