# Englander PDVC flame height



## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Hey everyone, you may have read my earlier posts that I recently purchased a rebuilt stove from AMFM energy. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/back-in-the-pellet-stove-game.103428/#post-1336037
I know I don't post a lot on here but I do real A LOT.  So let me give you all the details of the setup first.

I'm running factory settings 6-4-1.  My vent is new and is run as follows: adapter, tee, 90, 2' horizontal out of the house, tee, 3' vertical, 90, cap.  OAK installed.

I've burned a total of 7 bags now.  The first 5 were stove chow.  Then I vacuumed out the entire inside of the stove and hopper and the last 2 have been Lignetics.

The flame seems awful high on level 1, heat1 blower speed 2 sometimes 3

The flame will at times get huge and touch the top of the firebox.  I know pellet stoves tend to cycle from small flame to large and back to small etc., at least the ones I've been around have.  The longer the stove burns and as the pot fills with ash this seems to happen more often(the Large flame).  Longest I've ever burned without emptying the ash pot is 8 hours.  _My first question is:  *Is this Safe?  Or could I risk damaging the stove?  *_I'm attempting to upload a video. 


I was going to toy with turning the low fuel feed rate down a little because if I ran the stove higher than heat level 1 the flame would obviously be even larger.  I actually felt like I was just getting too much heat on level 1.  Then, I switched to Lignetics and immediately got an auger jam.  Two years ago, when I was always on this form they seemed like a pretty popular pellet.  I unclogged the jam and knock on wood has been fine since.  The Lignetics don't seem to feed quite as fast so I didn't mess with the feed rate.  On level 1 at times the flame would get so low that I thought it might go out.  I will probably switch back to stove chow before messing with the low fuel feed.  Last night I burned the Lignetics on level 2 to make sure the fire would not go out and I woke up at 5:30 checked on it and I ended up shutting it down.  The fire was just too big(bigger than in the video), plus lots of ash in the pot after 6 hours burning, and the glass was all black. I've been on heat level 1 for 2 hours and everything seems good, I still get a really large flame now and then. 

I'll continue to post updates and look forward to your responses. 

http://s716.beta.photobucket.com/us.../2013-01-20_07-42-08_238_zpsc900f7ca.mp4.html


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## PoopieBritches (Jan 20, 2013)

Have you checked to see which "profile"(what I call it)your stove is set for? Meaning the a,b,c,d.I had similar symptoms,too much fire even w/stove set at 1-1.I bought the house w/stove already installed,mine was set on "a",don't know why. Seems to be doing better on "d"which I have read here to be correct setting for pdvc.
I have alot to learn,but w/help from this forum,am really enjoying the stove so far.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 20, 2013)

Wow...you have a crazy flame going there but on the bright side it looks like you have really good airflow. Do what PB said and check your setting...pdvc should be on "D" mode. You can also drop down your LFF from 6 to say maybe 3 or 4 or so. You might have to tinker with it a bit. You can also close the slid plate a bit in the bottom of the hopper once there are no pellets in it. It's all trial and error. Make sure when you make any changes, you give it a good while and see how the stove reacts to the changes and don't make too may changes a the same time. First thing though is to see what heat mode you are in.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks you two, I will check the mode and see if there is a difference. I noticed and closed the slide plate a little after the upper auger jammed.



slvrblkk said:


> Wow...you have a crazy flame going there but on the bright side it looks like you have really good airflow.


Agreed, glad that it seems to be getting enough air! Occasionally I get the stove rumble I read about on here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/rumble-or-vibration-englander-25-pdvc.60759/#post-756343 I'm not worried about that though as it does not affect performance.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Alright, stove has been off because it's so warm in here.  Plugged it in and hit the two blower buttons and it flashed a d.  I think I may turn the LFF back to 4 like you suggested, I'm just concerned that the stove may burn out...only one way to find out though!


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## slvrblkk (Jan 20, 2013)

trudd said:


> Alright, stove has been off because it's so warm in here. Plugged it in and hit the two blower buttons and it flashed a d. I think I may turn the LFF back to 4 like you suggested,* I'm just concerned that the stove may burn out*...only one way to find out though!


 
Yes, just make sure you keep an eye on it for a while after you make changes....you'll be good!

Remember though, what runs good for one pellet may not run good for another pellet.


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm gonna question the evl. seems too high, unless its 4". Also I think the fire looks lazy. like not enuf air or too much evl.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 20, 2013)

Dang smoke.....lazy? My old pdvc's flame never looked that active and I had a standard install of 3" pipe-2 foot out and 3 foot up.....


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2013)

well maybe not lazy but its tall n orange. gonna go look at mine now. I'd video it but I'm too stupid to know how to upload it...


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2013)

mine is def shorter, whiter and more active than the vid posted above. my evl is over 20, but 4".


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

smoke show said:


> I'm gonna question the evl. seems too high, unless its 4". Also I think the fire looks lazy. like not enuf air or too much evl.


Only about 15 1/2....probably should be 4" pipe, but it's borderline.  I agree....flame that high is too lazy....not enough air.


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

slvrblkk said:


> .....My old pdvc's flame never looked that active and I had a standard install of 3" pipe-2 foot out and 3 foot up.....


That is NOT what you'd consider an "active" flame.  Much too tall and stringy, too orange and blackish tips.  Proper flame should be just above burn pot edges, sort of "blowtorch" like, orange-yellow-whitish with a hint of blue at the base.


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

What is this A,B,C,D and how do you check for it?


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## slvrblkk (Jan 20, 2013)

imacman said:


> That is NOT what you'd consider an "active" flame. Much too tall and stringy, too orange and blackish tips. Proper flame should be just above burn pot edges, sort of "blowtorch" like, orange-yellow-whitish with a hint of blue at the base.


 
I've never seen a pdvc with a "blowtorch" like type flame at least not what I consider "blowtorch" like. What I meant by active was the way the flame is reacting...BUT it does look like way too much fuel is being fed into the pot....I think once the fuel is cut back everything might be fine.


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

subsailor said:


> What is this A,B,C,D and how do you check for it?


It's the fuel/air program.  There are 4 different ones for the Englander double auger stoves.


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## MCPO (Jan 20, 2013)

My Harman has somewhat of a blowtorch flame but my PDVC has a more natural looking wood stove flame.


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## CladMaster (Jan 20, 2013)

subsailor said:


> What is this A,B,C,D and how do you check for it?


 
Look for posts made by me, instructions to all the settings will be found.



imacman said:


> It's the fuel/air program. There are 4 different ones for the Englander double auger stoves.


 
He's spot on.


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

CladMaster said:


> Look for posts made by me, instructions to all the settings will be found.


To check mode:

unplug stove,plug back in and quickly press the blower speed up and down arrows together at the same time .

Release, and a letter will appear in the heat range window. I believe the PVDC is supposed to be mode D...


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

CladMaster said:


> Look for posts made by me, instructions to all the settings will be found.


 
I must be blind. Wasn't able to find it.


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## PoopieBritches (Jan 20, 2013)

That is an odd looking flame,you say that when you cut the low fuel feed back,that the fire dies out? You may have an air leak somewhere.Door seems like the most common spot for air leaks.


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## PoopieBritches (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry,thought you had tried adjusting the low fuel feed.Just re read and see that you haven't messed w/it yet.I'm sure that someone here w/more experience will catch this thread and help.Good luck


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

Do the A, B, C, settings apply to a 2007 model stove?


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## PoopieBritches (Jan 20, 2013)

subsailor said:


> Do the A, B, C, settings apply to a 2007 model stove?


 Sure does.My '06,has it.


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

PoopieBritches said:


> Sure does.My '06,has it.


 
How do you check it? Just re-read my manual and it's not mentioned in it at all.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks again for the help everyone.


smoke show said:


> I'm gonna question the evl. seems too high, unless its 4". Also I think the fire looks lazy. like not enuf air or too much evl.


My venting is all 3". What is evl?

Believe it or not the flame does at times have a little blue at the base and then whitish in color. It's not always super tall but after 6-8 hours it seems to stay tall. But it's burning dirty I think. Glass is all sooty and I can barley see in, Lots of ash in the pot. I scrape it out and it helps calm the flame down. I know you can't see any of that in the video I'll try to get another or take some pics. My OAK is maybe 2 feet long, checked this afternoon and it's not blocked. How could I increase air flow. Oh, I checked the door gasket, it passed the dollar bill test. Again, still not burning yet. 75 degrees inside the house, it got warm today in RI.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Here's some videos from earlier in the week.

http://s716.beta.photobucket.com/us.../2013-01-18_19-18-48_553_zpsa9e461d4.mp4.html

http://s716.beta.photobucket.com/us...c/2013-01-18_16-41-43_96_zps901890e7.mp4.html


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

subsailor said:


> How do you check it? Just re-read my manual and it's not mentioned in it at all.


The info on modes and the operation of the lower 3 buttons aren't in any Englander manual.

PDVC's should be in mode "D"


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

imacman said:


> The info on modes and the operation of the lower 3 buttons aren't in any Englander manual.
> 
> PDVC's should be in mode "D"


 
I understand that part, but how do I check/set the proper mode?


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## smoke show (Jan 20, 2013)

imacman said:


> Only about 15 1/2....probably should be 4" pipe, but it's borderline. I agree....flame that high is too lazy....not enough air.


2 tee's and 2 90's. If I'm reading it right he's over 20 ft evl.


trudd said:


> Thanks again for the help everyone.
> 
> My venting is all 3". What is evl?


 
 Eqivalent vent length.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

Here I am thinking that I was doing a good thing with the 3' vertical giving me good draft.  Could I have a poor draft which is effecting my air intake?  I can take the tee and everything off outside the house put 1 more foot of horizontal and stick my chimney cap on it.  Oh by the way, does anyone think it is dangerous to burning the stove with the flame getting that large?


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

subsailor said:


> I understand that part, but how do I check/set the proper mode?


Did you read post #18 in this thread??


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

trudd said:


> Here I am thinking that I was doing a good thing with the 3' vertical giving me good draft. Could I have a poor draft which is effecting my air intake? I can take the tee and everything off outside the house put 1 more foot of horizontal and stick my chimney cap on it. Oh by the way, does anyone think it is dangerous to burning the stove with the flame getting that large?


Can you explain again your exhaust? Is what smoke show said above true?
You have (2) tees and (2) 90's in the system? If so, your exhaust has too many bends for 3" pipe.......your EVL is at least 23.

Max for 3" is 15.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

imacman said:


> Can you explain again your exhaust? Is what smoke show said above true? You have (2) tees and (2) 90's in the system? If so, your exhaust has too many bends for 3" pipe.......your EVL is at least 23. Max for 3" is 15.


 
Yeah, you read that right.  Stove is kitty cornered so I have stove adapter into a tee, a 90, then 2' horizontal out the wall thimble into a second tee, then 3' vertical, 90 to turn away from the house and the chimney cap.  This is the setup on my father-in-laws stove.  We just copied it when I installed mine.  Damn.


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## subsailor (Jan 20, 2013)

imacman said:


> Did you read post #18 in this thread??


 
I thought I posted this earlier, but I guess I screwed it up. Thanks for the info. I didn't see post #18 earlier. I checked mine and it was on C. Changed it to D. I don't know what the difference will be, but time will tell.


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## trudd (Jan 20, 2013)

smoke show said:


> 2 tee's and 2 90's. If I'm reading it right he's over 20 ft evl.


 


imacman said:


> Can you explain again your exhaust? Is what smoke show said above true? You have (2) tees and (2) 90's in the system? If so, your exhaust has too many bends for 3" pipe.......your EVL is at least 23. Max for 3" is 15.


 
Hey guys two questions: 
1) What do you think about me removing the exterior pieces since my run is way too long and running this: stove adapter, tee, 90 elbow, then 2 or 3 feet horizontal through the wall thimble and putting the chimney cap there?  Is it safe?  Some people go straight out horizontal with no vertical rise in their venting at all.  I know what I'm contemplating may not be ideal, I like having the vertical for a natural draft, but I'd rather wait until the spring to cut a new hole and move the thimble lower to rid myself of the tee inside the house.  

2) You think my current venting setup could be effecting my lack of air intake? 

Thank you for your help.


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## imacman (Jan 20, 2013)

Pretty much anything to get the EVL back close to 15 will help.    

It isn't so much of the shorter pipe helping the air intake, it much more about the entire air path.  The comb. blower just doesn't have the power to push the exhaust through all that pipe....too much friction/obstacles (bends), and in turn, that effects the air intake too.


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## h2ochild (Jan 21, 2013)

Can the stove be moved a little, to allow the interior Tee and 90 (with combined EVL of 10) to be replaced with a 45 (EVL 3) ?


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## trudd (Jan 21, 2013)

h2ochild said:


> Can the stove be moved a little, to allow the interior Tee and 90 (with combined EVL of 10) to be replaced with a 45 (EVL 3) ?


 
Not without raising my stove an additional 5-7 inches off the floor.

Update: My venting is now run as follows: stove adapter, tee, 90 elbow,3 feet horizontal through the wall thimble, chimney cap. It's hard to say if it has made a difference or not. If it has is not drastic enough. I'll have a better idea in 6-8 hours.

I'm uploading another video, it's around 1 minute. It shows how my flame is currently cycling from low to high. When I stopped recording the flame began to reduce until it got back to what it looks like at the beginning of the video. I'm on heat 1 blower 2. Video was taken 45 minutes after start up.

http://s716.beta.photobucket.com/us.../2013-01-21_12-22-13_614_zpsf1a84df4.mp4.html

I also experimented with disconnecting my OAK from the back of the stove. It didn't seem to make much of a difference. How strong of a suction should there be? The stove did not seem to be pulling air in as much as I thought it would. I could definitely feel it pulling air in, just thought it would be stronger. Also, is the air intake at all influenced by the blower speed? I was curious if turning the blower to a higher level would cause the stove to draw more air in. If it is supposed to I didn't notice. I know my bare hand isn't the most precise instrument for measuring such things but it's what I've got.  I was thinking of removing the screen from my OAK, to let more air in but I don't even know if it would make a difference at this point.


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## imacman (Jan 21, 2013)

Well, I think if you compare your original video vs this one, there is a HUGE improvement....flame is much shorter and less "lazy", IMO.

As for your question on the OAK air inlet....it is not a huge suction there, but if you can feel it easily, then I'd say it's OK.

Yes, the volume of air going in the OAK is directly proportional to the comb. fan speed. Raising the LBA will increase the blower speed and therefore, air velocity at OAK.

That said, raising the LBA above 6 is self defeating....it sends too much heat out of the stove through the exhaust, and not enough time spent inside the heat exchanger pulling BTU's from it to heat the house.


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## trudd (Jan 21, 2013)

imacman said:


> Well, I think if you compare your original video vs this one, there is a HUGE improvement....flame is much shorter and less "lazy", IMO. As for your question on the OAK air inlet....it is not a huge suction there, but if you can feel it easily, then I'd say it's OK. Yes, the volume of air going in the OAK is directly proportional to the comb. fan speed. Raising the LBA will increase the blower speed and therefore, air velocity at OAK. That said, raising the LBA above 6 is self defeating....it sends too much heat out of the stove through the exhaust, and not enough time spent inside the heat exchanger pulling BTU's from it to heat the house.


 
Well, as I expected the flame has been raging more often than not.  I cleaned the burn pot a little and then played with the LBA.  I raised it to 6.  So I'm running 6-6-1 on the lower 3 buttons.  Seemed like the flame was more active but sure enough the flame is still really big running on heat level 1 blower speed .

http://s716.beta.photobucket.com/us.../2013-01-21_14-13-08_591_zps36ea1bce.mp4.html

I think I need to cut thee feed rate down but no word of a lie, 5 minutes before I shot the video I had no flames and just coals in the pot.  So naturally a few more pellets are fed into the pot before the fire reignited and I end up with a large flame for awhile until things sort of even out.  I plan on grabbing some stove chow at HD tomorrow.  That's what I started with, they seemed to feed more consistently.  I had a very large flame with them too, but I don't recall the fire ever going out.


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## trudd (Jan 21, 2013)

LBA has been at 6 for almost 2 hours.  I just scooped some ash out of the pot and I'm lowering the feed rate to 5.  My settings are now 5-6-1.  Heat 1 blower 3.  I'll keep you posted.


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## imacman (Jan 21, 2013)

I'd try 3-6-1 or 4-6-1


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## trudd (Jan 24, 2013)

FYI. The flame height issue is all set.  Changing the flue really did it.  It calmed down some more with the new settings. My neighbor has the same stove his runs with a large flame. So, no more worries there. I have a new problem for a new thread but while on the phone with Englander I described the flame, the tech confirmed what my neighbor and I have been experiencing.


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