# Englander 28-3500 furnace install / mods



## mustash29

The trusty old wood stove has kept us warm for the last 12 years. Not too bad considering the 100 bux I paid for it + a few replacement bricks and gaskets over the years. Unfortunately, it's really showing it's age. It's a late '94 model I got from a navy buddy when he sold his house in '00.







I've been contemplating it's replacement for nearly 2 years, finally pulled the trigger.
Made in good old Virginia USA. England stove works 28-3500 wood furnace from Home Depot, complete with 10% Veteran discount. 

This thing is 570 lbs of 1/4" steel and has many great reviews, most of which I learned about here on Hearth.com.

After they set it in the bed of the D-max with the forklift, the young kid waving the orange flags asks me....."want some string to tie that down with?" Epic.


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## mustash29




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## mustash29




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## mustash29




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## mustash29




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## mustash29




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## mustash29

A "furnace" is essentially a stove surrounded by a tin jacket so the heat is directed into a duct. A "boiler" has a water jacket.

According to the manufacturer it is "rated to heat up to 3000 sqft when hooked into existing ductwork." They do not give it a BTU rating. Those are very arbitrary anyway since the EPA test method uses soft wood under stringent test conditions. For now we will be dumping the hot air to the rec room, similar to how the old stove worked. Hopefully before next summer I will be able to toss the window A/C's and have central A/C instead. I'm heating 1800 sqft now with the stove and oil boiler back up with hot water baseboard.

This is pretty much the lowest cost, most basic & manually controlled furnace on the market. Cheap and basic, bigger firebox than the stove and has a HUGE ash pan. I am guessing I will burn through about the same 3 - 4 cord per season that the stove used. What I won't have to deal with is the ash management issue and having to play "puzzle" 3x per day just to fill the firebox, so I should not have as many issues keeping a hot fire for 12+ hours.

I was thinking about a wood boiler, and the one I fell in love with is super awesome, but it's nearly the size of a small refrigerator, requires 400 - 800 gallons of pressurized hot water storage tanks so the complete system would have been about 20 - 22 K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxOh6xiwwSI

The other contender was an automatically controlled stainless steel wood furnace, for about 4500.

http://www.lamppakuuma.com/kuuma-vapor-fir...on-furnace.html

So the 1199 Englander with 10% vet discount is considerably cheaper.


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## mustash29

We finally have some colder weather setting in and I'm in the middle of a long 4 day weekend to mess around and monitor things so.....

The new beast is in place and cooking!

I did a few modifications to it prior to the first fire.  I found these ideas scattered around a few different threads here on Hearth.com

The stock configuration is called a "firebrick grate" but the bricks were taller than the slots in the steel support.  The 8 underfire air holes were 3/4 wide and would have allowed large coals to drop into the ash pan and they were wider than the ash pan.
















I cut a 15.25 x 24" plate of 1/4" steel to cover the stock setup.  This makes for a solid even floor so the poker will not catch on the bricks & chew them up.  My mechanic friend at work cut eight 1/8" slots in the plate with the plasma torch to allow underfire air to penetrate the coal bed.  I may have to enlarge them if the fine ash does not rake through them effectively.  So far the air penetrates nicely.






I also added 3 more pieces of angle iron and 8 more bricks (the 2 front side pieces are about 6" long) on top of the sides and back of the firebox.  They just sit on top of the rails that hold the factory brick.  The extra refractory will hold more heat in the firebox for better overall combustion efficiency.
















For now the heat is naturally rising through the lower rear air intake, where the factory 850 cfm blower is supposed to be, and rising out the 8" outlet on top.  The 850 blower is going to be overkill since we are just dumping the heat to the rec room like the old stove did.  I may add a small block off plate to the inlet with a small 3 or 4" muffin fan and hook that up to the factory temp probe and fan thermostat.  I could integrate that to a wall thermostat as well.

The redneck hot water coil for (pre) heating DHW is still in planning.


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## mustash29

First fuel load, very dry ash and poplar:


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## Jasper 83

Ive been kind of interested in replacing my stove with a furnace. My house is only 1000 sq ft with an attached garage that houses the air handler for the ac and heat pump. I want some kind of central wood heat that i can control with a thermostat in this mild weather weve been having. What kind of burn times are you getting on this?  Wonder if anybody on the sight has one hooked into their existing duct work?


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## Jasper 83

Does this furnace have a cat or secondary burn or none of the above?


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## mustash29

I don't have a real idea of actual long burn times yet.  We fired it up Friday and I was around the house Sat, Sun & Mon so I have been playing with it, throwing another piece or 3 in now & then, etc.  I work 12 hr rotating shifts and my other half works a regular 40 hr week so we will find out soon.  My goal is 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.

What I can say right now is that it holds a steady heat for quite a while, easily 8 hrs.  That is from a full load of "not quite seasoned well enough" red oak.  It was dropped last winter, delivered & cut on site in Feb.  I suffered a health issue in June so the chunks did not get split and stacked untill mid Sept.  It was also cut too short.  My request was 20-21 but most of the load was more like 16-18.  I split it into smaller sizes to fit the stove, hoping it would season a little quicker.  For next season I want to cut about 23-24 and leave the splits a little larger.

I snagged this load for 850, delivered and cut on site.  











My old stove was much more "peaky" because we had to let the coal bed burn down somewhat & load it for the long burn, but the heat output would fall off toward the end and require more air and some poking to liven it up again.  The Englander has a taller but more narrow firebox so it tends to stoke itself as the logs burn down and turn to coals.

So far it has surpassed my expectations.  Semi-seasoned red oak, main air control @ 1/4 to 1/2, lower spin draft shut, steady even heat for easily 8+ hrs, kept us >70-72 with outside temps from 18-35, cloudy days, a 12" storm and winds last night upward of 30 mph.  Coming home from a family gathering last evening there were 3-4 foot drifts betwen the corn fields on my road.  With properly seasoned larger splits at the correct length, I forsee 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.

I'm heating 1800 sqft, built in '96, R-19 walls, R-30 attic.  If I prop open the door between the rec room and garage I am heating allmost 2500 sqft.






It does not have a cat or secondary burn.

The one piece of info that was VERY hard for me to find was actual fire box volume.  15.375 W x 14.5 H x 25 D = 3.2 cuft.  Those measurements are after installing the extra bricks and if you load it right up to the upper baffle.

Wood storage.  I can easily put 2-5 cord under here before the snow flies:


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## KTLM

I have the same furnace. No mods. Heating 2400 sq. ft. house in west Pa. With temps. in the mid teens I have to keep the fire moderate or we get cooked out of here. Using 3 - 6 cords per year depending on variables. You will likely burn more the first year or two till you learn the stove characteristics. Probably the best deal on the market for a wood furnace. Ducting the heat through the house is well worth the effort. Also I noticed a huge difference in heat output using well seasoned wood.  Good luck and I will watch for more posts to see how your doing with it.
Kevin


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## Englander

Great post mustash29, can you tell me how you attached the angle iron ?


mustash29 said:


> 3 more pieces of angle iron and 8 more bricks (the 2 front side pieces are about 6" long) on top of the sides and back of the firebox. They just sit on top of the rails that hold the factory brick. The extra refractory will hold more heat in the firebox for better overall combustion efficiency.


 
As my firebox is looking worse for wear I was thinking of trying to redo the rails in the file box and I liked how you had added the top row of bricks

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/first-time-stove-burner.101685/#post-1312320


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## mustash29

Good old gravity, they just sit on top of the factory supports, which had a slight tilt to them when the factory welded them in.

The rear angle is just shy of 18".  The steel of the firebox is 18" wide.  It had four vertical 4 x 9 factory bricks back there for a total of 16" and a 1" gap in each corner.  I replaced the 2 outer rear verticals with 4.5 x 9's and used the skinny 4's for the rear horizontals.  The notches were made with a 1/4" masonry drill bit.

The side angles are 24".  The side bricks are standard 4.5 x 9's with the front ones being about 6-7" long and were cracked with a 4" brick chisel.

As long as the wood is loaded gently and not thrown in, they should all stay in place just fine.


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## mustash29

TSC had 21 lb packages containing three 7 lb bio bricks on sale for 2.99. These are normaly 3.49 so we grabbed a dozen to try them out.

Started with a 2" coal bed, added 42 lb of bio bricks. 1.5 hrs later we have this with a stack temp of 450, primary air open 1/4" and underfire air shut.






http://s23.beta.photobucket.com/user/Mustash29/media/Firewood/MOV00202_zpsf8b8fca1.mp4.html


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## mustash29

Well, after 10 days of firing the new furnace I have a few things to comment on.

Right from the start I determined that relying on convective air flow through the unit would work if necessary, but it was slow to pump out the heat.  I wired up a heavy duty 120v alumnium frame 4" muffin fan from an old PC to a cord & plug.  It just sits right at the air intake and does a wonderful job of blowing a gentile heat out the top of the furnace.

We are very happy with the heat output.  It is more than plenty for our 1800 sqft in temps as low as 11 and winds upward of 30.

My ash plate works well in protecting the factory floor grates.  The (epic) failure was that I made the air slots too small.  I had to shovel the ash out of the furnace just like my old stove.   

This is all that fell into the ash pan after firing for 10 days:






So today I made the slots larger.  I drilled the ends of the slots to 5/16" and then stacked two 1/8" cutting discs on the grinder and made a nice spark shower.  The slots are now slightly > 1/4".


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## DexterDay

Very nice and detailed thread. Love Engalnders products. Best customer service in the industry


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## mustash29

Ash management is much improved with the larger slots in the plate.  

Some ash drops on it's own.  Every poke at the coal bed drops more.  Essentially no red coals fall through.  I fired it for 5 days untill the heat wave set in.  When I let it go out all that was left in the firebox was some ash and some black coals.  After raking that around for a bit the ash dropped and left the charcoal behind.


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## Yankee

Looks interesting, and like the mods to the unit.  Your place and all, but SERIOUSLY, get the exposed combustable insulation paper covered with something, sheetrock preferred.  It wouldn't take much to light the whole mess up.


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## Gasifier

mustash29. Very nice job. I like the way you added so many pics and details to the thread. I have to agree with Yankee on the safety thing. I cringe evertime I see that exposed insulation behind your stove. One day I was working with a guy putting up 12' sheets of sheetrock on the ceiling of a renovation. We had a light socket in the middle of one of the sheets and someone had installed a pigtail with a bulb in it to help them see better while working. We struggled a little with the sheet because we did not have a rock lift and anywho, we missed the hole in the rock and trapped the bulb in between the sheet we were putting up and a joist and bang. Broke the bulb, the filiment from the bulb was now exposed and started to spark and caught the paper on the insulation on fire! The fire swept across the cieling in just a few seconds. Unbelievable! We were able to get the fire out before the firefighters got there. This was after we had called the fire department that was just about two blocks down the street. I still to this day do not know how the fire did not travel up the walls on the outside. I thought for sure we would lose the whole house.

Leaving the insulation exposed directly behind the furnace is just asking for it. I know you are a smart man. And you have probably been burning fires in your wood stove like that for years. But why take the chance? Cover the whole wall and ceiling above it with 5/8 sheetrock and be done with any chances. If you can not do the whole room with sheetrock now, then at least cover the wall behind and ceiling above the stove for now and finish later. ?


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## topoftheriver

mustash29 said:


> I don't have a real idea of actual long burn times yet. We fired it up Friday and I was around the house Sat, Sun & Mon so I have been playing with it, throwing another piece or 3 in now & then, etc. I work 12 hr rotating shifts and my other half works a regular 40 hr week so we will find out soon. My goal is 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.
> 
> What I can say right now is that it holds a steady heat for quite a while, easily 8 hrs. That is from a full load of "not quite seasoned well enough" red oak. It was dropped last winter, delivered & cut on site in Feb. I suffered a health issue in June so the chunks did not get split and stacked untill mid Sept. It was also cut too short. My request was 20-21 but most of the load was more like 16-18. I split it into smaller sizes to fit the stove, hoping it would season a little quicker. For next season I want to cut about 23-24 and leave the splits a little larger.
> 
> I snagged this load for 850, delivered and cut on site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My old stove was much more "peaky" because we had to let the coal bed burn down somewhat & load it for the long burn, but the heat output would fall off toward the end and require more air and some poking to liven it up again. The Englander has a taller but more narrow firebox so it tends to stoke itself as the logs burn down and turn to coals.
> 
> So far it has surpassed my expectations. Semi-seasoned red oak, main air control @ 1/4 to 1/2, lower spin draft shut, steady even heat for easily 8+ hrs, kept us >70-72 with outside temps from 18-35, cloudy days, a 12" storm and winds last night upward of 30 mph. Coming home from a family gathering last evening there were 3-4 foot drifts betwen the corn fields on my road. With properly seasoned larger splits at the correct length, I forsee 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.
> 
> I'm heating 1800 sqft, built in '96, R-19 walls, R-30 attic. If I prop open the door between the rec room and garage I am heating allmost 2500 sqft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not have a cat or secondary burn.
> 
> The one piece of info that was VERY hard for me to find was actual fire box volume. 15.375 W x 14.5 H x 25 D = 3.2 cuft. Those measurements are after installing the extra bricks and if you load it right up to the upper baffle.
> 
> Wood storage. I can easily put 2-5 cord under here before the snow flies:


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## topoftheriver

mustash29 said:


>


You just gotta love these beast. Have one in the cabin in Maine. Boils us out but it is better than being cold. Endless supply of wood so I just open the windows if I have to. I also have one, brand new, at home but haven't installed it yet in the basement. Will get to it sooner or later. These babies are the greatest. There are other good makes as well but I am sold with the performance of the 28-3500. Best.


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## topoftheriver

mustash29 said:


> I don't have a real idea of actual long burn times yet. We fired it up Friday and I was around the house Sat, Sun & Mon so I have been playing with it, throwing another piece or 3 in now & then, etc. I work 12 hr rotating shifts and my other half works a regular 40 hr week so we will find out soon. My goal is 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.
> 
> What I can say right now is that it holds a steady heat for quite a while, easily 8 hrs. That is from a full load of "not quite seasoned well enough" red oak. It was dropped last winter, delivered & cut on site in Feb. I suffered a health issue in June so the chunks did not get split and stacked untill mid Sept. It was also cut too short. My request was 20-21 but most of the load was more like 16-18. I split it into smaller sizes to fit the stove, hoping it would season a little quicker. For next season I want to cut about 23-24 and leave the splits a little larger.
> 
> I snagged this load for 850, delivered and cut on site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My old stove was much more "peaky" because we had to let the coal bed burn down somewhat & load it for the long burn, but the heat output would fall off toward the end and require more air and some poking to liven it up again. The Englander has a taller but more narrow firebox so it tends to stoke itself as the logs burn down and turn to coals.
> 
> So far it has surpassed my expectations. Semi-seasoned red oak, main air control @ 1/4 to 1/2, lower spin draft shut, steady even heat for easily 8+ hrs, kept us >70-72 with outside temps from 18-35, cloudy days, a 12" storm and winds last night upward of 30 mph. Coming home from a family gathering last evening there were 3-4 foot drifts betwen the corn fields on my road. With properly seasoned larger splits at the correct length, I forsee 12 hr burns with 15 hrs of coals.
> 
> I'm heating 1800 sqft, built in '96, R-19 walls, R-30 attic. If I prop open the door between the rec room and garage I am heating allmost 2500 sqft.
> 
> 
> 
> It does not have a cat or secondary burn.
> 
> The one piece of info that was VERY hard for me to find was actual fire box volume. 15.375 W x 14.5 H x 25 D = 3.2 cuft. Those measurements are after installing the extra bricks and if you load it right up to the upper baffle.
> 
> Wood storage. I can easily put 2-5 cord under here before the snow flies:


As for the burn time, I can't say the time lenght for a given night because installations differ as much as temperatures. But I will offer this small story. In the cabin in Maine, I loaded the stove to about 3/4 and cut back on the air. I left the cabin for two days. When I returned, I still have a hot bed of coals and the radiation was still comfortable. Of course I had to rake it down, and reload but that gives you some what of an idea in 20 degree weather. During snowmobiling in subzero temps, we are toasty. Uses a bit more wood but you can get some extremely long burns depending on how you regulate it and the temps you are looking for.


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## Badfish740

mustash29 said:


> This thing is 570 lbs of 1/4" steel and has many great reviews, most of which I learned about here on Hearth.com.
> 
> After they set it in the bed of the D-max with the forklift, the young kid waving the orange flags asks me....."want some string to tie that down with?" Epic.


 
Forklift!?  Engine crane!?  Cheater   I only paid $300 for mine (used) but I had to disassemble the entire thing, lug it out of a basement up a steep staircase and out of some Bilco doors, then get it up my back steps to the kitchen, through there to the basement on a handtruck.  There was a point when there was 450+ lbs of stove, a 215lb me, and a 190lb buddy all on my basement steps (which have no center stringer)-needless to say we were a little nervous, but all turned out well.  Seriously, hook up some ductwork to that puppy and get heat to the entire house-it'll make a huge difference.  I have mine piped directly into the plenum of my oil furnace.  Got a fillup today for the first time since the end of last winter-45 gallons


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## denn

I didn't read the whole topic, but 1/2" slots for wood ashes is about ideal.


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## 04HemiRam2500

Nice Mods.


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## Highbeam

Even if coals did fall into the ash pan, they would still burn and give off heat right? Not just a waste.


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## mustash29

Sort of, depending on how the air controls are set.  The main control washes the glass and feeds the firebox.  The spin draft knob allows for "underfire" air and will tend to burn down the coal bed fast, leaving little coals for a quick re-fire.  Allowing large coals to drop into the ash pan also hinders the ability to hold a healthy coal bed.

I believe this beast would be SOOO much better if it had dedicated secondary combustion tubes.


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## mustash29

Just a little update.

I routinely burn a tank of oil in the summer for DHW & shoulder heat, and a tank of oil in the winter for DHW, shoulder heat and back up heat.

I filled the oil tank on Nov 2.  It's been a chilly winter to say the least.  I am now at a needle width below 1/4 tank.  Wood use has been about 3.5 cord so far.


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## mustash29

And about 16 gallons of ash.


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## Badfish740

mustash29 said:


> I filled the oil tank on Nov 2.  It's been a chilly winter to say the least.  I am now at a needle width below 1/4 tank.  Wood use has been about 3.5 cord so far.



I'm at 100 gallons so far for this winter, but probably will have burned about 50 more by the time they come for the end of heating season fill in April.  That will be a lot for me-I believe last year I only burned about 50 gallons the entire winter, but temperatures were milder and I had more wood ready to go.  I ran through my seasoned wood by about the second week of February.  I've been doing pallet wood fires now and then and trying to use the oil heat sparingly.


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## M1sterM

Have you seen the 


mustash29 said:


> Sort of, depending on how the air controls are set.  The main control washes the glass and feeds the firebox.  The spin draft knob allows for "underfire" air and will tend to burn down the coal bed fast, leaving little coals for a quick re-fire.  Allowing large coals to drop into the ash pan also hinders the ability to hold a healthy coal bed.
> 
> I believe this beast would be SOOO much better if it had dedicated secondary combustion tubes.



Have you seen this tread, yet?  Looks pretty easy.  If I end up with another Englander Add-on, I really want to try something similar, for fun.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/modifying-a-central-wood-furnace-for-secondary-burn.54712/


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## mustash29

Not interested in trying to add secondaries to the Englander, I will be replacing it with an Empyre 100 gasser instead.


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## bob burke

Great thread.  I'm def. going to pick mine up this weekend.  I might add a steel plate to the bottom like you did.  Prob. start with at least 3/8 grooves for proper airflow.  Sounds like my life will be a lot easier starting this season.


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## bob burke

When I looked at the stove in Lowes, I noticed a steel plate below the top baffle, that seems to slide front to back.  What's that for?  Appears to be a damper.


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## mustash29

It's not a damper, just a smoke baffle.  The (primary) air washes the glass door, hits the lower front of the fuel charge, flows toward the back of the stove, then comes forward along the bottom of that upper baffle, then has to curl around the baffle to get to the flue.


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## bob burke

So just keep it all the way forward?


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## mustash29

The smoke baffle is supposed to be all the way to the back.


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## bob burke

Cool...I haven't purchased the stove yet.  I'm sure there's an instruction booklet.


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## mustangwagz

I've got this stove have had it for 5 or 6 years. It's a fire breathing beast!  All manual and fail safe. Replaced blower once after 3 years and took out Honeywell thermostat and replaced with an adjustable snap disc. Way quieter now. Chews up about 9 cords of wood per winter and burns clean once ya learn it's burn curve. It's a dang good  furnace.


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## laynes69

mustangwagz said:


> I've got this stove have had it for 5 or 6 years. It's a fire breathing beast!  All manual and fail safe. Replaced blower once after 3 years and took out Honeywell thermostat and replaced with an adjustable snap disc. Way quieter now. Chews up about 9 cords of wood per winter and burns clean once ya learn it's burn curve. It's a dang good  furnace.




What's your square footage your heating?


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## mustangwagz

Wellll....my place is only like 1700 sq ft, so it COOKS us out no joke. i messed up back when i bought it and went way to big. i burn it at No less than 300 degree's Flue temp. (This temp is measured 18-20" above the collar on top of stove via a pyrometer probe and digital thermostat). Reason i cook it so hot is to achieve clean burn. I also drilled holes in the "Clean wash" lip near the door, they Sometimes act as half-fast (..read that quick) secondary burn holes. Yes, its overkill by a LONG shot, but when its 0 degree's outside, our windows and doors are open and we're wearing our skippies around. 

The neighbor bought one also, his home is like 3200 sqft, it keeps his place in the 80's all winter. He has no problems with his either other than getting wood, he works to much and is to damn cheap to buy a log truck load if needed. lol 

As for smoke shelf, yes run it with it pushed all the way back and the lip curled down...UNLESS you want to warm your flue quickly at start-up. If you pull it forward, and run it to warm it up, it'll help with flue draft issues and back-puffs. I have no drafting issues, i got lucky. lol ive seen some ppl with crappy chimneys have lots of smoke issues, this is one trick i learned thanks to the Wood-Chuck's design with their "slide" above the fuel door. 

If i had time and energy to put in the secondary burn tubes like a gentleman did over on the other forum i run around on, i could cut wood consumption down by atleast 1/3 but i aint gonna monkey with it right now. just got a pellet stove, been playing with that instead. so far, got 11 cords of White and Red oak, Locust, cherry, hickory, and a little bit of maple, and just ordered 3 tons of pellets..i aint playin this year.. hahaha


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## bob burke

I may have to pick your brain re. the snap disc once I get the stove.  I was wondering what the factory settings are on the thermostat, and if I would be able to adjust to fit my application?  I took a quick peek at the blower in the store the other day...I didn't notice of there were oil ports?  3 years doesn't seem like a long time for a motor to last if you can clean/oil it?

I was hoping to save on wood consumption with this stove.  It sounds like your usage is based on you letting it roar most of the time.  Again...I might find that I can't damp it down as much as I want at night, as the blower might not stay on?  I too, may have to fiddle with other thermostat options.


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## mustangwagz

Factory On setting is 150 Degrees, Factory off is 100, Emergency ON is 200..that means its gotta come on at that setting or risk overfiring the firebox adn crackign stuff. you can adjust the on and off but dont touch the emergency ON setting. Reason i changed mine to snap disc is cuz the honeywell is a bi-metal type, pretty common, but its NOISY in my opinion. I have mine in my main living quarters just blowing freely through the house. i dont have a basement in this old dump. so i cant plumb it into duct work. 

Oil ports, yes it has them...my first motor i NEVER realized it and missed it in the manual...the 2nd motor i seen them when it showed up in the box, actually had stickers on em.  They're SMALL and hard to get to, especially the one thats towards the inside of the blower..my suggesetion is Get an old bottle of rem oil, (gun cleaning oil) when its empty, take a WD-40 straw, and jam it into the opening of the bottle squirter..then fill with 30 weight motor oil (non detergetnt stuff) and bingo itll make life easier. 

As for Having it roaring...no, i burn it at a clean flue temp accroding to my wood. its just to dang big for my little house and cooks us out. haha.  I run it with the bottom spin draft open "the thickness of a nickel" by this i mean open the spin draft, hold a nickel against the door, spin draft shut till it wont close no more cuz nickel is sammiched in there, then pull nickel out. Thats a pretty common base setting for this furnace, then use your top to control it the rest of way. i NEVER have to slide the top draft more than half ways open, ever...maybe if im starting stubborn wood with a very small amount of kindling, but still, i never ever run it wide open, never have. haha.   Will blower shut off at night?..nope, it stays on pretty much continuous here at my place when its fired up unless fire dies out or power goes out.   Will the glass get dirty?..yah if your burning crap wood, wet, unseasoned stuff. Good dry seasoned wood wont make alot of water vaper and creosote. 9 chances outta ten, if you got good dry wood, you'll prolly have to close the bottom spin draft a few notches and then resort to top slide draft.   Im all about nice dry wood, or atleast Non-green wood. 

Get yourself a stove pipe thermometer, either the cheap magnet kind that they sell at stores, or buy a nice digital one with an alarm on it for high temps or low temps and a pyrometer probe this way you can better learn the stove when you get it. got my fancy one for 80 bucks shipped to the house, i forget the maker of it, its pretty neat. Sure, the glass will show ya flames, but is it burning clean? lol  i worry to much about clean pipes cuz i had a chimney fire as a kid and it scared the chit outta me, now im 29, have a wife, a 5yr old boy, and another on the way....Best bet your butt im making things as fail-safe as possible. 

ill help as much as possible on other questions if anyones wandering.


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## bob burke

Because I use this for my shop, I have to stoke the stove for the night around 9 or 10 pm.  I trudge across the yard, and fill the bed of hot coals to the brim with wood for the night.  then, I'll usually bank it all the way down.  With my current stove, (3' long firebox made from an old water tank....no gasket on the door) the bed of coals is so hot, I mix some 1/2 seasoned wood on top of the dry wood.  I bank it down for the night and go out around 6 or 7 in the morning.

I was hoping that with the new stove, I can fill it around 9 pm, and  still have the blower running in the morning.  I'll have to see if I can get 9 hours out of it and not have the blower shut down.


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## mustangwagz

Thats possible, but itll depend greatly on the wood you burn. I can burn big chunks of hickory for 12+ hours and still burn clean with it. BIG piecces of hickory around here are hard to find tho, most are pretty small still but when someone offers me a honkin big shagbark, i drag it home somehow..even if i gotta pull it with my car! hahaha.  Great wood in these stoves or any stove for that matter. 

I burn alot of locust too, ppl always say "geeze, burning good fence posts..." So what, they aint no skinny little tree's so im gonna use em! They'll make your baffle bow when they're cookin!


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## bob burke

I have a lot of oak this year, which is similar to the hickory.  Typically, I use a lot of maple, beech, and if I'm forced to....ash. I get cherry too on occasion.  Looks like I'm going to have to set this up, and see how it works best.  It can't be worse than the stoves I've been using for the last 20 years.


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## psebowhunter

Just fyi, i bought my 28-3500 new last year. when the time came to oil the motor i couldnt find the ports. I am pretty mechanically inclined/a big DIYer so that stumped me. I emailed the company and was informed that they are now using both motors with and without oil ports and its hit and miss as to what you get on it. I do love the furnace for as a first time burner though. I am going to look into adding on a filter box to keep the basement dust in the basement.


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## mustash29

My primary air (top slider) moves 1 7/8" max.  I pretty much ran the whole winter last year with it open only 1/4" or maybe 3/8".

The bottom spin draft has 5 raised notches on the knob and goes a little over 2 turns (11 notches) to full open.  I keep it shut most of the time as this seemed to keep the best coal bed.

I work rotating 12 hr shifts, my other half works normal hrs.  Our typical routine was as follows:

If I was on day shift:
0400 - 0500  I poke at fire because I like to, maybe add a split or 2.
0630 - 0730  She poke & load for the day.
1730 - 1800  She poke & load a few splits.
2130 - 2200  I poke & load for the night.

If I was on night shift:
1630 - 1700  I 1/2 load it for the evening.
2130 - 2200  She load it for the night.
0630 - 0700  I poke & load for the day.

We crack open the ash pan door or open the spin draft maybe 1/2 way for a few minutes prior to reloading.  That was enough to get the stack temp up really good and get a strong chimney draft so no smoke or ash spilled out into the house while stirring the coal bed and sifting ash through the base plate and into the ash pan.

When adjusting the draft controls, I always like to keep the fire in the stove.  I don't like to see the flames wrapping around the smoke baffle and moving toward the chimney pipe.


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## mustangwagz

psebowhunter said:


> Just fyi, i bought my 28-3500 new last year. when the time came to oil the motor i couldnt find the ports. I am pretty mechanically inclined/a big DIYer so that stumped me. I emailed the company and was informed that they are now using both motors with and without oil ports and its hit and miss as to what you get on it. I do love the furnace for as a first time burner though. I am going to look into adding on a filter box to keep the basement dust in the basement.


wow, they took the oil ports away!??! thats dumb as heck..  I put a filter box on mine too...but...becareful, go BIG and put in a few filters. Adding filters will make it get warmer to the touch, and in turn make the motor warmer too. just a heads up.


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## mustangwagz

mustash29 said:


> My primary air (top slider) moves 1 7/8" max.  I pretty much ran the whole winter last year with it open only 1/4" or maybe 3/8".
> 
> The bottom spin draft has 5 raised notches on the knob and goes a little over 2 turns (11 notches) to full open.  I keep it shut most of the time as this seemed to keep the best coal bed.
> 
> I work rotating 12 hr shifts, my other half works normal hrs.  Our typical routine was as follows:
> 
> If I was on day shift:
> 0400 - 0500  I poke at fire because I like to, maybe add a split or 2.
> 0630 - 0730  She poke & load for the day.
> 1730 - 1800  She poke & load a few splits.
> 2130 - 2200  I poke & load for the night.
> 
> If I was on night shift:
> 1630 - 1700  I 1/2 load it for the evening.
> 2130 - 2200  She load it for the night.
> 0630 - 0700  I poke & load for the day.
> 
> We crack open the ash pan door or open the spin draft maybe 1/2 way for a few minutes prior to reloading.  That was enough to get the stack temp up really good and get a strong chimney draft so no smoke or ash spilled out into the house while stirring the coal bed and sifting ash through the base plate and into the ash pan.
> 
> When adjusting the draft controls, I always like to keep the fire in the stove.  I don't like to see the flames wrapping around the smoke baffle and moving toward the chimney pipe.



Great method. Apparently youve got some very well seasoned hard woods. my flames do roll up around the baffle plate, but i dont let it worry me much. The hotter the flue, the cleaner itll be.


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## psebowhunter

mustangwagz said:


> wow, they took the oil ports away!??! thats dumb as heck..  I put a filter box on mine too...but...becareful, go BIG and put in a few filters. Adding filters will make it get warmer to the touch, and in turn make the motor warmer too. just a heads up.



Yea, I was kind of disappointed to find out that I wasn't just  overlooking the ports. I haven't had the best of luck with sealed bearings in hot, high RPM, dusty conditions.
Thank you for the heads up on the filter set up. I was thinking about getting the US Stove filter box that I have read fits this furnace. Do you think that would end up overheating the motor?

And here is the Email they sent me regarding the blower motor.

"Yes, that can be confusing for those whose blowers do not have an oil port.  You see, we do not actually make the blowers.  They come to us from several different vendors.  Depending on who made the blower it might have an oil port, or it might have sealed bearings.  If your blower has an oil port there will be a sticker on the motor itself that states the blower needs to be oiled with SAE 20 oil.  If no such sticker is there you have a blower that has sealed bearings and does not need to be oiled.

Eric Hammer
England's Stove Works"


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## mustangwagz

Yah I hope for your sake it's the kind ya can oil. 400 bucks for a new one!! The cost isn't the worst thing though, it's the wife waking ya up and saying hey...the wood burner sounds funny...then walking.down to find out that it's locked up at 3am, and ya gotta leave at 6 am for work...then your up till 4 or 5 jimmy-rigging an old furnace blower in place of the junk one. Hahaha. Been there and done that...it sucked!!


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## bob burke

Thanks Bowhunter...I'm going to check which blower the floor model has.


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## bob burke

Just got back from Lowes.  They matched HD's price of $1199.  Unfortunately, the blower motor has no oil ports.  I'll go online, and buy an aftermarket motor with ports, and have it on the shelf. I like the idea of adding firebrick to the top section.  I messed with the floor model, and they do indeed stand on the steel ledge.


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## psebowhunter

I wonder if that is going to be their new standard at this point and that is kind of unfortunate. I'll probably look at getting a spare to have on hand as well, or at least a back up that I can use as a temporary fix if mine goes down. And Bob I'm glad I could save you the frustration I had looking for oil ports that didn't exist to begin with. I was all but standing on my head with the flashlight trying to find the dang things.


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## Badfish740

psebowhunter said:


> Thank you for the heads up on the filter set up. I was thinking about getting the US Stove filter box that I have read fits this furnace. Do you think that would end up overheating the motor?



I'm about to go into my sixth heating season with the US stove filter box on my Englander (that was my post you caught) and I've never had a problem. I've never attempted to lubricate the motor either-just assumed it had sealed bearings:

Englander 28-3500 Add-On install thread

You won't be sorry about putting the filter box on-it looks like it was made to fit, first off (either Englander copied some of US Stove's design or vice versa), and when you see the amount of dirt that gets trapped in a filter in a month you'll be glad that wasn't getting blown out of your registers into the house   I can't remember how much I paid for it but I got it at Tractor Supply.  This furnace is a real workhorse and will serve you well.  I bought mine used, so it's actually in it's ninth heating season I believe.  The only maintenance I've done to it is I repainted it entirely with BBQ paint two years ago and replaced all of the gaskets last year.  I like the firebrick mod and might try that this year.


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## bob burke

Just unpacked the stove.  Took the motor aside, and inspected.  I do have oil ports!  Never give too much credence to what a floor manager in a box store tells you over the phone.


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## psebowhunter

Well I guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Was there actually a sticker on the motor saying it required the oil like was reported to me in the email from the company?


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## bob burke

psebowhunter said:


> Well I guess I'm the odd man out on this one. Was there actually a sticker on the motor saying it required the oil like was reported to me in the email from the company?


No way.  I just looked at the motor, and I saw the ports.  The one for the rear bearing is obvious.  The inner port is within the scroll cage housing, but I can clearly see the port, with the tube inside.  I'm happy!

Edit....I really ignored everything but the spots I expected to see the ports.  There may  be a sticker somewhere on the motor.  I can check when I get home.  But there is no sticker near the actual oil ports.


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## Badfish740

I guess maybe I should check to see if my bearings are sealed or not-six years and nary a squeak


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## mustangwagz

Badfish740 said:


> I guess maybe I should check to see if my bearings are sealed or not-six years and nary a squeak


yah wouldnt hurt.


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## bob burke

OK....just finished the install this a.m, and fired it up.  I added the extra fire brick on top too, but I didn't bother with the angle iron.  If I have issues during the winter, I will def. cut some angles to hold the bricks.

I'm amazed at how airtight this sucker is.  Of course, I had been using an old handmade clunker w/no gaskets on the door.  I'm thinking I might cut my wood consumption in half.  I got the fire started around 10 a.m today, and I've only put 4 or 5 pieces of wood in it since.  My shop has been 80 degrees for hours.  When I shut it down, the wood consumption is almost nothing.  I would have gone through 5 times the amount of wood already with the old stove.  I'll have to wait for cold temps, to judge how much wood I'll need this year.

I think I'll build an over sized box, with two furnace filters for the blower.  I did notice that I had to lower the blower OFF temp to about 70 degrees thus far, and I'm sure I'll lower it more when I have time to hang out and see when the blower shuts off.

Looks like this winter is going to be a pleasure!  I will have to split some of my wood smaller, though.  I want to cram in as much as I can at night.


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## mustangwagz

ive got my off blower at 90, if ya run it lower sometimes the air is to cold and if ya still got a fire going and it shuts off, ya could technically over cool the firebox and start causing creosote. Also, fwiw, the THICKER the chunks, the longer it'll burn, Skinnier pieces fit nicer, but burn like wildfire sometimes. haha.


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## bob burke

mustangwagz said:


> ive got my off blower at 90, if ya run it lower sometimes the air is to cold and if ya still got a fire going and it shuts off, ya could technically over cool the firebox and start causing creosote. Also, fwiw, the THICKER the chunks, the longer it'll burn, Skinnier pieces fit nicer, but burn like wildfire sometimes. haha.


I can see I'm going to have to test the thermostat for a while.  I already realized that I have to put it in manual mode when I first start the fire, because it's making good heat long before the blower kicked on at factory settings.

I figured I'd throw my big chunks in first when I'm banking it down for the night, and fill every crevice with thinner stuff.  The baffle keeps me from getting too many large pieces in at a time.  But...it seems that during the day when I'm in the shop, I won't have to fill the stove very often, or have to worry about using more than 2 or 3 chunks at a time.

I'm really glad I bought this stove.  Because it's meant to be used with existing duct work, I understand why there are no speed settings on the blower.  For me, it would be better if I had at least Low/Med/High.  I might check to see if I could put a rheostat on the blower without doing damage.


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## mustangwagz

ive thought about that too but never did it. wish i had a low med high also.


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## bob burke

mustangwagz said:


> ive thought about that too but never did it. wish i had a low med high also.


Some motors can handle it, and some can't.  And...there are different types of rheostats.  Instead of a multi position slide/knob, they have L/M/H switches that I've used with success.  I'd hate to shorten the life of a brand new motor, though.

There must be someone here who can give us some info.


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## bob burke

OK...'rheostat' is the wrong term, and the wrong item.  Fan speed control is what I need.  I referred to it above as the L/M/H switch that I've used for my ceiling fan.


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## bigoakhunter

I have had this furnace for 6 years now...does a good job of heating my ranch and finished basement, 2600 sq ft total. I did have the blower motor crap out during year 5. Had to get one shipped from company last winter. It is one without oiling ports. We will see how long it goes. I have noticed like the post earlier in this thread that "seasoned" wood makes a difference. Good unit at a great price.


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## mustash29

bob burke said:


> OK...'rheostat' is the wrong term, and the wrong item.  Fan speed control is what I need.  I referred to it above as the L/M/H switch that I've used for my ceiling fan.


 
Correct.  You need (want) a speed control that will vary the speed of a single speed motor.

Do NOT use a dimmer switch or similar.  All they do is reduce the voltage to the motor, which will cause it to run slow, draw more current, usually run hotter and most likely make a terrible humming noise.


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## bob burke

mustash29 said:


> Correct.  You need (want) a speed control that will vary the speed of a single speed motor.
> 
> Do NOT use a dimmer switch or similar.  All they do is reduce the voltage to the motor, which will cause it to run slow, draw more current, usually run hotter and most likely make a terrible humming noise.


Yes...we want to reduce Hz, not volts.

For years, I've been saving motors from kitchen renovations.  Typically, they're from the old downdraft ranges that people used to have.  I never understood why people thought they could bbq indoors, with a downdraft cooktop?

I also scavenge them from exhaust fans.  I've used these to move air into my shop from the wood stove.   Now, they may be set up to run at different speeds/voltage already, and I've used simple rheostats with decent results.  They prob. run hot, and sometimes they whine, but they don't fry.  I do oil them at regular intervals.

Granted, this motor is MUCH bigger than those I've referenced.

I learned about the fan controls when I tried to use a wall switch to control a ceiling fan.  It hummed/whined, and someone told me I was using  the wrong switch.  I swapped it out, and it's been fine.  I just lose the infinite adjustment, but I don't really need it.


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## mustangwagz

yah just becareful man...the replacment motors aint cheap! LOL
although.....yours would be "under warranty" so maybe ya oughta do it soon...hahahahaha


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## psebowhunter

I'm glad you're enjoying your furnace. I'm still in love with mine. We had a nice 29° morning this morning and i loaded it up with a couple splits and uglies at 6:30. I haven't touched it all day and still have a good coal bed and the fan is still kicking on here and there yet this evening. I haven't changed the factory settings on the thermostat. 
On a cold start it does take the fan a while to kick on even with a good roaring fire. But that's because the temp sensor isn't touching the firebox so all the air around it has to get up to temp before it starts. 
I still haven't got the filter box for mine but it's on the list. I can't wait to see/feel the difference of having that filtered air rather than the dusty basement air.


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## bob burke

Got home today around 5 p.m.  Stove was out all night, so I started it up for my second test run.  I'm finding that I LOVE the glass door, as it really helps with the learning process.  You can see exactly what the little tweaks do, once you get a fire going.  Because I'm using less than 4 feet of flex duct to get the heat into the shop, I put the fan on manual once I've got a good fire going.  It's pumping heat within 10 minutes.  For your application, it's probably better to let the fan come on automatically, because a long run of duct would probably feel cold air coming out.

Tonight will be the first real test, as I haven't even  gotten a good bed of coals in the stove yet.  Once I do, I'll load it up, and bank it down.  I'm curious as to how long I'll get heat, and if the fan will shut down as I need it to, based on my settings.  The fan shutting off will obviously change once we get into really cold temps.


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## bob burke

Threw a few logs on the stove at 9 p.m, and shut it down completely.  We had 29 degree temps last night.  Shop was 60 degrees at 6:30 this morning.  I see I can't damp the stove down all the way.  There were still a lot of coals, and simmering logs.  No flame, and it made quite a bit of creosote. I'll try letting more air in tonight, but I'm amazed that 3 or 4 logs simmered for over 9 hours!


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## mustangwagz

i figured you'd have this problem letting them simmer. Try opening the bottom spin by about the "thickness of a nickel" and slide top draft shut, that should help a little.


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## bob burke

The instruction booklet gives no instructions, I wonder if sliding the top baffle forward a little when I bank it down would help with the creosote?


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## mustangwagz

it may, it'd allow flames to rise up the pipe rather than through the firebox, however you'd loose heat. I slide mine forward when starting it to get pipes good and hot fast so the draft starts drawing the smoke and flames up. 

Did you get a stove pipe thermometer yet? im tellin ya man, get one and put it 18-20" above the collar of the furnace, it'll make your life alot easier.


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## psebowhunter

For what its worth and your mileage may vary but I've never moved the baffle on mine other than for cleaning. On start up i run both both dampers all the way open for about 5-10 minutes until there is a good for going. Then i close the bottom/ spin damper all the way down. I run the slide/top damper around a quarter to half open. This leaves me with a good long efficient burn, not much creosote at all with dry wood and a nice coal bed for a reload. I found when i ran with the bottom damper open it shortened the burn times and seemed to kill the coal bed.


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## bob burke

I might grab the thermometer, and see how different approaches work.  I get great draft on my 15' metal stack.  I open the bottom door during startup, and the fire starts immediately.  I'll try the closed bottom, open top next time I test.  Temps went up to 50 yesterday.  I started a small fire at 10:30 a.m, and didn't feed it.  Stove was pumping heat for 6 hours.  Again...I'm lucky because I'm not using existing ductwork.  I'm just blowing heat through a 4 ft. flex pipe.  Even after the blower shuts down at the 70 degree mark, I can turn it back on manually and get heat for another hour.

Thus far, it seem either very little from the bottom intake, and very little from the top, or nothing on the bottom, and a little more on the top seems to be the two methods to try.  I'm guessing that moisture content in the wood will have varied affects too.


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## mustangwagz

for me...i prefer to have bottom open. When i was running just the top id come back to logs not burnt fully etc etc, then i did some research and brain storming with guys on other forums and found that opening the bottom gave me a good full burn. 

As for moisture, yes it has a TON to do with how it'll burn im sure you know that already though. if you wood is wet, i highly suggest using the bottom draft. 

The decision is yours! lol you'll figure it out, just kepe your pipes clean! another tip, If you glass gets dirty, your not burning hot enough Or your wood has alot of moisture in it. thats how i tell how my fire's burning nice dry wood..along with chimney temps.


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## bob burke

OK....I've developed a real love for this stove!  But...we had 13 degree temps the other night.  Given that my furnace is in an insulated shed attached to the outside of my shop, it's probably  going to perform differently than if I had it in a basement.

I've been having excellent results thus far, but I noticed that the really frigid temps seem to keep it from blowing heat as well as when it's in the 20s outside.

I decided to remove all the extra firebrick that I had added, as I feel that I'm insulating the firebox from the airspace that creates the heat chamber.  I did get a better result almost immediately.  My sheet metal door to the shed isn't insulated, as my old stove used to really heat the entire shed.

I think I'll insulate it, and cover the back of it with sheet metal too.


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