# I suppose a tough question....



## metalsped (Jul 24, 2011)

...but I might as well ask it anyways. Hi folks, first post from the sweltering state of MA. Probably the worst time to be talking about heating something, but I guess thats my way.

We bought a house 6 months ago (1500+sq ranch). There is an old (what I believe to be first iteration) VC Defiant in it. I know its way too big for this house, and certainly after reading up on a LOT of topics here in the forum, probably not something that I would want to run anyways here.

My question... what do you guys think I can get for this stove? I'm gonna try to dump it on Craigslist or something I guess, and parlay those funds into a newer stove (not yet determined brand).

Not trying to sell it here, so let me just put that out there. Just looking to see if you all can give me a ballpark on what I might be able to get for it.

Last winter, we got absolutely reamed by the oil man. I have access to roughly 60 acres of new england hardwood... so the wood isn't an issue. The time is right to get a stove that will hopefully heat this house 95%, with the oil taking up any slack it might have.

Anyways, maybe some of you guys can help me? Thanks in advance.

Rich


----------



## begreen (Jul 24, 2011)

Greetings and welcome to the forums Rich. It's value will be relative to it's condition. In peak season the stove in operable condition could get maybe $3-400. If it was in excellent condition and recently restored, that value could be up to $800 during the fall. During the summer, in unknown condition I would guess about $200. Less if it has been run hard and overfired, or has any cracks or the bypass is not functioning correctly. If you can post some exterior and interior shots of the stove we might be able to give a better estimate.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 24, 2011)

I will have to bring my camera home and take some shots. I had a chimney sweep out just after we bought the house (here comes the head smacker)... and they said the previous owners had a chimney fire, and the flue was destroyed. Part of what I will be posting going forward in other forums, but anyways...


They said the stove was in pretty good shape overall. They built this place in 1968, and probably got the stove not too long after that if I had to guess. I will definitely get some shots up though. Thanks


----------



## begreen (Jul 24, 2011)

They were probably burning less ideal wood and then running the stove on low. Having the chimney inspected was a very good first step. Getting at least a couple seasons of wood cut, split and stacked now is step #2. Your new stove is going to burn better with dry wood. With proper burning in a modern stove and flue system, chimney fires should be a thing of the past.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh I am sure they were burning anything they could in this stove... quite the pair they were...


----------



## Fsappo (Jul 26, 2011)

A mint condition Defiant with no cracks, properly working damper and a fresh coat of paint/gaskets should fetch about $4-500 come fall.  If it has the tell tale crack along the inner fireback, it may be better served as scrap...or my favorite use for an old VC dragon ,Outdoor Fireplace baby!  Use it outside till it rusts in half!  Can even cook on the top!


----------



## metalsped (Jul 26, 2011)

I took some shots last night, and maybe I can get them on after work. The back seemed to be in OK shape. Had a crack on the right side (above what appeared to be an air duct), but past that... seems pretty straight forward. Casting date on the back is 1975.. so I assume its the year of production.


----------



## Fsappo (Jul 26, 2011)

Probably just the date the cast was made, not the casting itself.


----------



## begreen (Jul 26, 2011)

That's correct. It's the date of the casting mold.


----------



## Wood Heat Stoves (Jul 26, 2011)

The date is the year that version of the Defiant came out. Cracked firebacks are very common and the Defiants went through many variations with different parts for each. I would reccomend finding a VC dealer with experience with the older stoves that has the books showing how to tell the difference between the older models so you can get a correct part number if you need a new fireback. Be prepared that it may no longer be available.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

Instead of spamming you all with the photos, you can see them all here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v57/metalsped/old wood stove/

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

Hmm... seems the link gets broken when I put it in the post. Please copy and paste... or actually better yet, here is how we skirt the system 

New link to the same place: http://bit.ly/r2W2Fx


----------



## fbelec (Jul 28, 2011)

welcome rich
the previous owners ran that to low. the inside of the stove should not have as much black as that one has. they prob had many chimney fires and had no idea that it was happening. that stove is usable just needs new gaskets and cement. (a rebuild)

frank


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

It certainly makes sense that they would have run it low... this beast is shoved into a (now) 1500 sq ft ranch. Before they added into it, it was shoved into a 900 sq ranch!!


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

what would you put on it for a value, in the state you saw? Im looking for a few opinions on that. Gonna try to sell it off for what I can get, to get  a new stove.


----------



## BrowningBAR (Jul 28, 2011)

metalsped said:
			
		

> Hmm... seems the link gets broken when I put it in the post. Please copy and paste... or actually better yet, here is how we skirt the system
> 
> New link to the same place: http://bit.ly/r2W2Fx




It seems to be in decent/good condition. I can't tell if the interior side wall is cracked or not. Someone with more knowledge than myself will have to chime in.

I have an old house and I use a Vigilant which is very similar to the Defiant, but a size smaller.

*Here's what I can tell you if you keep the stove and use it:*
It will produce heat and they are easy to use.
They are inefficient and will chew through a lot of wood, but this may not be an issue since you mentioned wood will be easy to come by.
It is over-sized for your house, but maybe less than you think as it looks like an older house and old homes tend to be leaky/drafty (unless you put in new windows and insulated the hell out of the place).
If you sell it, you can expect $300-500 in return (unless there is unseen damage)

*If you purchase a new stove:*
A new liner, installed, will run you about $1,500 (which you will need either way)
Oversize your stove. Go with something that has a 2.5 cu ft firebox or larger depending upon the draftiness of your home and your floor plan.
A larger firebox will also allow easier over night burns.
If you go with a stove that is rated exactly for your square footage, you will be disappointed.
A stove that is too large is *a lot* easier to live with than a stove that is too small.
Do not buy your stove on BTU ratings. Go by firebox size.

*Additionally:*
Cut your wood now! And I mean *right now*. Otherwise it will be too wet to burn and it will suck.
If you use the Defiant, you will burn through 4-5 cords of wood.
If you purchase a new stove you will burn through 3-4 cords (roughly, maybe less, but I doubt it).


----------



## BrowningBAR (Jul 28, 2011)

metalsped said:
			
		

> It certainly makes sense that they would have run it low... this beast is shoved into a (now) 1500 sq ft ranch. Before they added into it, it was shoved into a 900 sq ranch!!



That house is either extremely drafty or they were cheap and picked up an inexpensive stove to minimize their expense. I'm guessing it is a bit of both.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

I am sure of both. We spent a fortune in oil last winter (our first). Thats what I am trying to mitigate this year. We will be doing some improvements in removing windows and insulating on the side of the house where the the stove will be going.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

And in regards to the firebox size.. that sounds awfully large for what our house is. The Oakwood, which seems to be a nice unit, is I think about a 2cuft box, and it seemingly might be too big already. Help me wrap my head around this (because that seems like a good looking stove, and a functionally sound choice).


----------



## BrowningBAR (Jul 28, 2011)

metalsped said:
			
		

> And in regards to the firebox size.. that sounds awfully large for what our house is. The Oakwood, which seems to be a nice unit, is I think about a 2cuft box, and it seemingly might be too big already. Help me wrap my head around this (because that seems like a good looking stove, and a functionally sound choice).




A larger Firebox size allows for more heat and longer burn times. The longer burn times are important for good overnight burns. Smaller the firebox, the shorter the burn (for the most part).

The Oakwood has a claimed 2.3 cubic foot firebox. (though, the claimed 2,000 square foot heating capacity is over stated)

This would work, but you also have to be realistic about two things:
How drafty is your house? (how much oil did you burn through last year?)
How open is your floor plan? Older homes usually do not have an open floor plan. This could make whole house heating challenging, especially if your home is already drafty.

If your home is very drafty, I would go larger. This will allow for longer burn times, better over night burns, and it will be more capable of dealing with below average cold spells and wind.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 28, 2011)

There is the plan. We are going to be placing the stove in the middle of the furthest right room (which they drew in the sky lights on that, if you were wondering what the 4 boxes were). The dividing wall only a few feet from it is coming down, so that whole side will be open, flowing to the rest of the house. That entire end of the house is basically windows... so the thermal loss is pretty great (like 90% windows). We are taking some out, including the crank out windows just above the radiant heat baseboards... going with an insulated half wall all around. Note the very tall ceilings in that 'living room' side... 12' cathedral. The rest of the house is standard 8'.


----------



## fbelec (Jul 28, 2011)

metalsped said:
			
		

> And in regards to the firebox size.. that sounds awfully large for what our house is. The Oakwood, which seems to be a nice unit, is I think about a 2cuft box, and it seemingly might be too big already. Help me wrap my head around this (because that seems like a good looking stove, and a functionally sound choice).




don't be afraid of the big firebox. no one says you have to load it to the gills everytime you run it. i run the old defiant in a 1280 sq. foot house and i make it work. i run short fires and long. run the stove about 550 to 650 and there shouldn't be a problem.
you should be able to sell that stove for 300 no problem. take a look on craidslist or ebay, there are usually a few for sale to give you a idea of how much. you won't be able to get 7 to 8 hundred for the stove because i can see spots where there are air leaks, so it needs to be rebuilt. when you buy your new stove, i too agree with browningbar go for a large firebox so that you have the option of keeping the house warm on those days we get around here that doesn't get out of the teens.

good luck
frank


----------



## defiant3 (Jul 30, 2011)

Youhave a DefiantIAI.  It was made between 1978-1980 (roughly) .  It would appear that the fireback is relatively straight and clearly it'sthe original, as mostreplacement firebacks don't have the date cast in them.  So it's had an easy life, and it's very rebuildable should that be necessary.  The only spotof bother is of course that it's a rear vent(pipe comesoff the rear) , not a more popular top vent. I'd insist on $400.00.  It would be worth vacuumi9ng it out and waiting till afterLabor day when people begin to take heating seriously again.  Good luck


----------



## begreen (Jul 30, 2011)

In this location a big, cast iron clad, convection stove like the PE Alderlea T6 would be a good fit. Let me disclose right up front that I own one, so this is with some experience, but also with some bias. The positives with this stove is that in spite of its size, it's not going to bake you out of the place. It is a convection stove which should work well here, providing long burn times, easy operation, low maintenance and comfortable temps. If you are interested in soapstone, then I would try a Mansfield here (non-cat) or a Woodstock Fireview (cat).


----------



## BrowningBAR (Jul 30, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> In this location a big, cast iron clad, convection stove like the PE Alderlea T6 would be a good fit. Let me disclose right up front that I own one, so this is with some experience, but also with some bias. The positives with this stove is that in spite of its size, it's not going to bake you out of the place. It is a convection stove which should work well here, providing long burn times, easy operation, low maintenance and comfortable temps. If you are interested in soapstone, then I would try a Mansfield here (non-cat) or a Woodstock Fireview (cat).




How well would a T6 work in a drafty home? In comparison to a Vigilant?


----------



## begreen (Jul 30, 2011)

It depends. Drafts can make a 70 degree room uncomfortable. In that case a radiant stove is going to "feel" warmer because of the direct infrared heat and could be the better choice. The best choice is to locate the sources of draft and seal them.


----------



## metalsped (Jul 31, 2011)

I definitely appreciate all the posts! This seems like a really good resource, and I hope to become a regular PITA around here. 

I will probably take the advice about Labor Day, and make sure the stove is most presentable, and see what I can do with it. Thanks again guys.


----------



## MarkinNC (Jul 31, 2011)

Looking at your floor plan I would vote for a convective stove to push the heat towards the other end of the house.  I hope there is a ceiling fan in the living room to push the heat down.  That made a tremendous difference in my house. 

 My house was built in 97 and is pretty tight.  My firebox is 2.2 CF and the stove is rated to heat up to 200 SF.  My climate is warmer that yours (the low was 6 degrees last winter) and I had to push the stove harder than I thought at times so I would vote for a bigger firebox as well.  I have to admit I wondered if the Endeavor could work for you since it is convective, but I would probably go a little bigger with all those windows.

Nice hearth btw


----------



## metalsped (Jul 31, 2011)

So what models, from various manufacturers, would be considered convective?


----------



## MarkinNC (Jul 31, 2011)

metalsped said:
			
		

> So what models, from various manufacturers, would be considered convective?



I don't know but I do know there are a lot of them out there.  Last yeast was my first year burning (as an adult). It was a blessing that I bought a convective stove because the other stoves I was looking at were pure radiant stoves.  The convective design (in conjunction with the fan on the stove) really does push the heat.  I aimed mine towards the hallway.  My stove is in one corner of the house with two bedrooms at the other end.  The bedrooms are cooler than the stove room of course.  The furnace thermostat is by the bedrooms and with the stove up to temp, if I turn on the stove fan at a very low setting, and the ceiling fan, I can raise the temp at thermostat several degrees in a few minutes.

That was a typo in my previous post, my stove is rated to 2000 SF.

I am not trying to sway you in any direction stove wise.  I'll post a link to Lopi's video's and they have one on the convective design that you can look at if you like.

http://www.lopistoves.com/Videos/Default.aspx


----------

