# Best Way to Make Protruding Bricks Flush with Hearth?



## cowtown (Sep 24, 2011)

I have the fireplace guy coming this Wednesday to take some measurements so that he can firm up a quote.

If I get the okay from him and we are able to agree on a deal, I need to make the proturding bricks at my fireplace opening flush with the rest of the brick wall (see pics) - any suggestions?

I was thinking of simply going to a big box store and renting a tool (not sure which one) and then performing the cuts, any idea on what tool I should be asking for - perhaps an angle grinder?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


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## madison (Sep 24, 2011)

the exisiting hearth stone in front of the brick looks sorta on the shy side I would indeed make sure it is to code prior to demo.  Otherwise, a hammer and chisel for the brick?


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## cowtown (Sep 24, 2011)

madison said:
			
		

> the exisiting hearth stone in front of the brick looks sorta on the shy side I would indeed make sure it is to code prior to demo.  Otherwise, a hammer and chisel for the brick?



Yes, I will need a hearth extension - that is in the plans.


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## fishingpol (Sep 24, 2011)

When the bricks are cut flush, are you refacing over them?  Are you putting in an insert with a surround? Cut bricks will not look as nice as the regular uncut sides.  If you are putting in an insert, check that by removing the protruding bricks you will still have the required depth.  A surround kit should cover the newly exposed cuts.

As far as tool, angle grinder with diamond wheel should work.


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## cowtown (Sep 24, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> When the bricks are cut flush, are you refacing over them?  Are you putting in an insert with a surround? Cut bricks will not look as nice as the regular uncut sides.  If you are putting in an insert, check that by removing the protruding bricks you will still have the required depth.  A surround kit should cover the newly exposed cuts.
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> As far as tool, angle grinder with diamond wheel should work.



That is what I was thinking, angle grinder witha diamond wheel.

The surround just covers the cut brick.

It is a deep firebox and will hold the insert - I will not start demo until after the guy comes on wed.

Thanks.


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## wood-fan-atic (Sep 24, 2011)

You could rent a chipping gun - I like the Bosch SDS Plus. It is not as heavy as the larger models, is both a chipping gun and a hammer drill, and is strong enough to shave those bricks just shy of flush with ease.


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## certified106 (Sep 24, 2011)

wood-fan-atic said:
			
		

> You could rent a chipping gun - I like the Bosch SDS Plus. It is not as heavy as the larger models, is both a chipping gun and a hammer drill, and is strong enough to shave those bricks just shy of flush with ease.



+1 on that idea! I have used them alot and it will not make nearly as much dust or mess as the angle grinder


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## cowtown (Sep 24, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

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The chipping gun - would the cut not be as flush as the angle grinder (I know the angle grinder will kick up a ton of dust, but I can prepare for that).


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## certified106 (Sep 24, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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You would be surprised at how flat you can get them with a rotary hammer once you get used to using it. I figured the surround would cover the cut brick so it wouldn't be to important if they looked perfect.


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## madison (Sep 24, 2011)

Don't forget to research the mantle clearances as well as the hearth.  I would not skimp on the hearth dimension with all the nice carpets and floors.  It is amazing how stuff can fly when it is raised up off the floor.

BTW really good looking cabinetry.


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## cowtown (Sep 25, 2011)

madison said:
			
		

> Don't forget to research the mantle clearances as well as the hearth.  I would not skimp on the hearth dimension with all the nice carpets and floors.  It is amazing how stuff can fly when it is raised up off the floor.
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> BTW really good looking cabinetry.



The guy is coming Wed to measure,  I will need a hearth extension, I know that already; hence, I will pull the carpet back to accomidate it.

The hearth to the mantle is 37 9/16", the exact clearance needed for the Alderlea T5 insert, we will see how it goes Wednesday.


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## wood-fan-atic (Sep 25, 2011)

The chipping gun is light enough and powerful enough to be very precise, actually. You will have no problem chopping those bricks within 1/4" - 3/8" of the flat face of the hearth. The insert surround will cover any imperfections.....I had to expand my fireplace opening,too, and that is what I used. Very little mess,also. Use the small spade bit with a nice edge on it.


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## jatoxico (Sep 25, 2011)

Brick is soft. If the surround will cover it use a masons hammer. If it's going to show the you'll have to go with something more precise.


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## cowtown (Sep 25, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> Brick is soft. If the surround will cover it use a masons hammer. If it's going to show the you'll have to go with something more precise.



I am right on where it might/might now show, so I think I am going to use an angle grinder with a diamond blade.


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## cowtown (Sep 25, 2011)

Just go my first quote from a Mason - yea, $900 plus tax to cut the brick, are you kidding me?

Anyhow, for that price it looks like I am going to do it myself.


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## jatoxico (Sep 25, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

> Just go my first quote from a Mason - yea, $900 plus tax to cut the brick, are you kidding me?
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> Anyhow, for that price it looks like I am going to do it myself.



Osillating multi tool would give very precise cut. Does not chip at brick, cuts it.


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## cowtown (Sep 25, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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I was thinking the same thing, not sure if the blade woudl get all the way through the brick though.


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## jatoxico (Sep 25, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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Once the doors are off looks like you have good access. Sounds like you only need to make a small clean edge (1" or so). $900 saved should provide sufficient motivation, that sounds like a lot of $ unless the lintel is in the way or something.


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## cowtown (Sep 25, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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Will make a go of it - my guy is coming Wed to measure to make sure a T5 will fit the space, once I get the okay, I will provide pictures of the demo (well, only if it goes well  )


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## jatoxico (Sep 25, 2011)

Nice, I'll be looking for pics.


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## Dune (Sep 25, 2011)

I wouldn't use an angle grinder to cut brick in that house. Buy a brick chisel and  drill hammer.(short handled 3# hand hammer) The cleanup alone would be monumental.


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## cowtown (Sep 26, 2011)

Dune said:
			
		

> I wouldn't use an angle grinder to cut brick in that house. Buy a brick chisel and  drill hammer.(short handled 3# hand hammer) The cleanup alone would be monumental.



I was thinking of this as well.  I have the brick chisel and a drill hammer.

I think first I will go with the oscilating tool with the grout removal attachement.  Go brick by brick taking as much mortor and cutting as much brick as the grout remval attachement will let me.  I can have my wife hold the shop-vac and suck up any dust as it comes out.  Then when i have cut as much as I can, finished it off with a brick chisel.

For deeper spots, use a hammer drill with a masonry drill bit.

I think the angle grinder will be the tool of last resort (kind of like a nuclear bomb).


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## jatoxico (Sep 26, 2011)

There are brick and masonry blades for multi tools

A lot less dust than a rotary grinder


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## cowtown (Sep 26, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> There are brick and masonry blades for multi tools
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> A lot less dust than a rotary grinder



I did not know this - I will take a look into it, thanks.


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## ScotO (Sep 26, 2011)

give a bricker hammer and 4" brick chisel a try...you will be surprised how easily AND precisely it will cut those bricks......and if any of them do show, they will look more natural than a cutting tool will afford.....trust me I do a lot of natural stone masonry/veneer and with just a little practice you will be cuttin those bricks with a chisel and hammer like a pro....if you have access to some spare bricks you can practice outside on them...to get a feel for how to cut them...usually a couple of medium hits on each cut will do the trick.....keep us posted on how you make out!


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## cowtown (Sep 26, 2011)

Flamegrower said:
			
		

> give a bricker hammer and 4" brick chisel a try...you will be surprised how easily AND precisely it will cut those bricks......and if any of them do show, they will look more natural than a cutting tool will afford.....trust me I do a lot of natural stone masonry/veneer and with just a little practice you will be cuttin those bricks with a chisel and hammer like a pro....if you have access to some spare bricks you can practice outside on them...to get a feel for how to cut them...usually a couple of medium hits on each cut will do the trick.....keep us posted on how you make out!



thanks for this - yes many was to skin the cat here.  I can actually practice on the top bricks as these will be 100% convered.  It is the side bricks that might/might now be revealed.  I will let everyone know how it goes (but again, Wed is the big day to see if I have the necessary clearances).  I will be in mourning if I can't get the insert.


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## ScotO (Sep 26, 2011)

> thanks for this - yes many was to skin the cat here.  I can actually practice on the top bricks as these will be 100% convered.  It is the side bricks that might/might now be revealed.  I will let everyone know how it goes (but again, Wed is the big day to see if I have the necessary clearances).  I will be in mourning if I can't get the insert.



No problem, hey we'll keep our fingers crossed for ya...things will work out one way or another...keep thinkin positive!


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## cowtown (Sep 27, 2011)

Okay - small update, but another guy came by to look at getting rid of the brick.

Quote $250-$300, this is what I was expecting.

I guess the question is now, to do it myself of spend $300 on it?

Part of me want to try it out, if I get into trouble I can alway call this guy in.


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## jatoxico (Sep 27, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

> Okay - small update, but another guy came by to look at getting rid of the brick.
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> Quote $250-$300, this is what I was expecting.
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I say try one with your grout blade. Go at it from each side, you will get a 3/4 cut all around then knock it off. Then go after the nub. Do a bottom one first but I think it will go quick.


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## cowtown (Sep 27, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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Yup, this is exactly what I was thinking.

Question - why a bottom one first.  I was thinking of going from the top so that the bricks below will provide resistance when I strick the brick ontop for a more controled cut.


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## jatoxico (Sep 27, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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Less noticeable than eye level if it doesn't go the way you think. You know, best laid plans... ;-)


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## cowtown (Sep 27, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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Good suggestion - I am going to work with ones going across the top first as these will be covered by the surround.  The ones on the side should be covered as well.  42 1/2" is the measure of the surround, brick to brick that I am removing is 41 3/4", so should be covered.


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## jatoxico (Sep 27, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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Your in good shape, have at it. You'll save yourself some bucks and probably do a better job than anyone you hire. Good luck and snap a pic to show how it went.


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## cowtown (Sep 27, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

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I will, first have to make sure the T5 fits (this Wed the installer is coming over) once I get this, I will start a new thread.  I really don't mind spending the $300, but i am the type of person to try new things, and i think I can do this.


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## mhrischuk (Sep 27, 2011)

There is a possibility of you knocking bricks totally out if you hit them the wrong way. Mortar doesn't stick as well as some think.


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## cowtown (Sep 27, 2011)

mhrischuk said:
			
		

> There is a possibility of you knocking bricks totally out if you hit them the wrong way. Mortar doesn't stick as well as some think.



Yup, I know this, but the same goes for the mason who indicated the he will use a hammer and chisel.  I think starting the cuts with a grout blade on me oscillating tool will help a lot.


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## cowtown (Sep 29, 2011)

Well had the insert guy over tonight - he says everything is good to go.  So I will start demo this weekend or next and start a new thread on it once I do.

But was so excited tonight that I took off the fireplace glass - it was then I realized that the fireplace opening is pretty big.

Thanks everyone for their help on this, I think I will attack it with an oscilatting tool + masonry dril bit + brick chisel + brick hammer + vacuum + drop cloth + prayers.


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

> Well had the insert guy over tonight - he says everything is good to go.  So I will start demo this weekend or next and start a new thread on it once I do.
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> But was so excited tonight that I took off the fireplace glass - it was then I realized that the fireplace opening is pretty big.
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> Thanks everyone for their help on this, I think I will attack it with an oscilatting tool + masonry dril bit + brick chisel + brick hammer + vacuum + drop cloth + prayers.




Well tried one brick and failed - a bit gun shy, the mason is coming tomorrow, will gladly part with my $250-$300 to get this done.  The brick beat me today.


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## tickbitty (Oct 2, 2011)

Yikes, I guess I am a minority of one here, but I say DON'T cut the brick.  Just leave it, it looks fine.  If you need to have a surround around an insert, you can have an insert surround custom cut so it sits nicely on the protruding brick level.  Or you can put an insert without a surround which actually can look quite nice and give the appearance of a nice (though legless) stove in the fireplace,  It would work the same as having the surround and you won't have to permanently change your brickwork.


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## begreen (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm not sure I follow why all this work to remove 2-3" of brick. Why? If the surround "just covers" the protruding brick, why not just have the surround fit to the edge of the protrusion? I may be missing an important detail here, but if it just takes trimming a 1/2" off the surround metal or even 3", that seems like it might be an easier approach.


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## Yagminas Masonry and Wood-heat (Oct 2, 2011)

I would most definitely cut the metal surround to fit INSIDE the opening. It makes for a "clean" look.


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## tickbitty (Oct 2, 2011)

LOL thanks BeGreen now I'm in a minority of two!

edit - and then there were three!


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## tickbitty (Oct 2, 2011)

Yagminas Masonry and Wood-heat said:
			
		

> I would most definitely cut the metal surround to fit INSIDE the opening. It makes for a "clean" look.



That does look nice, here is a hearth guy that did just that




https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/50201/P0/


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## begreen (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks for the pic tickbitty. Yes, there are alternatives here that need exploring before surgery.


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Thanks for the pic tickbitty. Yes, there are alternatives here that need exploring before surgery.



My hearth is only 16" from the face of the brick wall.  I need all 16" to get the T5 insert in (according to the manual).  Without the brick cut back, I am at 14". So even with the brick cut back I will still need a hearth extension on the floor.


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## tickbitty (Oct 2, 2011)

So in that case the extension on the floor should give you all you need, you can get a hearth extender board for around 60$ or get something nicer that's a little more and matches your setup, and you can leave it permanently or remove it in the off season.  Still seems like you don't need to permanently alter the bricks if you don't have to. 
But it's your place and the result just has to be what you are after so hope it works out great for you! (post some pics when you're done!)

Edit:
Ohhhh, just realized the T5 insert has one of those fancy surrounds that is made to look kinda cast iron and as if it's part of the stove, which makes for a good looking setup.  Do you buy the surround in addition to the stove or does it come with it?  Because if it comes with it, I guess I can see it's not one you would want to cut.  But it's a mighty good looking stove even without that surround, so if you can live without it you can probably custom cut a plain surround or you can skip it.


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

[quote author="tickbitty" date="1317541607"]So in that case the extension on the floor should give you all you need, you can get a hearth extender board for around 60$ or get something nicer that's a little more and matches your setup, and you can leave it permanently or remove it in the off season.  Still seems like you don't need to permanently alter the bricks if you don't have to. 
But it's your place and the result just has to be what you are after so hope it works out great for you! (post some pics when you're done!)[/quote

Page 4 of the Alderlea T5 manual (at least the way I read it) suggests that i need 16" of hearth so I think I have to get rid of the brick (the installer also said this as well).  I don't mind paying the $300, plus it will then be to code.

I will post pictures of the install - maybe even the guy working on the brick tomorrow.

Thanks for you message.


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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## ddddddden (Oct 2, 2011)

Dan, while the mason is there, why not ask how much $ it would be to raise the mantel or replace with non-combustible?  Then you could get that m0nster insert that you want!


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

Den said:
			
		

> Dan, while the mason is there, why not ask how much $ it would be to raise the mantel or replace with non-combustible?  Then you could get that m0nster insert that you want!



If I was single I would have done this aleady   The wife is on board (after hours of me wearing her down) as long as there are minimal changes.  Any work on the mantle would just cause issues.


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> So in that case the extension on the floor should give you all you need, you can get a hearth extender board for around 60$ or get something nicer that's a little more and matches your setup, and you can leave it permanently or remove it in the off season.  Still seems like you don't need to permanently alter the bricks if you don't have to.
> But it's your place and the result just has to be what you are after so hope it works out great for you! (post some pics when you're done!)
> 
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> Ohhhh, just realized the T5 insert has one of those fancy surrounds that is made to look kinda cast iron and as if it's part of the stove, which makes for a good looking setup.  Do you buy the surround in addition to the stove or does it come with it?  Because if it comes with it, I guess I can see it's not one you would want to cut.  But it's a mighty good looking stove even without that surround, so if you can live without it you can probably custom cut a plain surround or you can skip it.



Both my wife and I like the surround, so we want to incorporate it in our set-up.

I appreciate the idea of not cutting the brick, it put me in a different head space, but I am still going to go ahead with it.  I will do my best to post some pictures later today


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## madison (Oct 2, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

> Any work on the mantle would just cause issues.



16" clearance for the mantle  ---  you could have issues if you do not measure three times -- and allow a couple inches for mistakes,  and determine if it is OK


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

madison said:
			
		

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Yes, the guy came on Wed and said everything was okay - so should be good, getting the brick out right now as I type this.  I will take a picture when the mason leaves (maybe pretend that I did the work ).


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## cowtown (Oct 2, 2011)

Well, the brick has been cut - now waiting on the install.  I hired a mason and it was done with hammer and chisel.


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## ScotO (Oct 9, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

> Well, the brick has been cut - now waiting on the install.  I hired a mason and it was done with hammer and chisel.



you said the only partially visible bricks will be the top ones, I don't think you will ever notice them....esp. if you get some colored type N cement that matches your existing mortar afnd after the installation, use a grout bag and apply a bead of that cement around the surround where it meets your brick...use a pair of gloves and your thumb to point the grout after it sets up a while and you'll never notice those bricks at all, plus it will look like the fireplace was made for your insert!...but that mantel looks REALLY REALLY close to that opening, keep an eye on that thing as it will be above that insert and that insert will really put out the heat.....keep us posted and good luck!


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## cowtown (Oct 9, 2011)

Flamegrower said:
			
		

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I should be okay - the surround (at least according to the manual) will cover all the bricks, so I am happy.  Also happy no brick poped out during the cutting.

A minor thing I had to do myself, the hearth was cut to incorporate the brick, so when the brick got cut, it was exposed on the hearth and didn't look good.  I had to dig out the remaining brick and put in some travertine there.  I will post a picture in a bit (I have to go outside now, I got a leg of lamb on my smoker - it is Canadian Thanksgiving).


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## cowtown (Oct 9, 2011)

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The pic of what I was talking about (there used to be brick where the new travertine tile is).  The brick would have shown on the hearth in front if I didn't do this as the surround would not have covered it up.  Not perfect, but not bad.


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## mhrischuk (Oct 9, 2011)

Perfect. It will be all covered up.


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## jatoxico (Oct 9, 2011)

Hey, starting to shape up nicely. Will be looking good with new insert soon. Happy Thanksgiving to you, your family and all the northern neighbors.


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## cowtown (Oct 9, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> Hey, starting to shape up nicely. Will be looking good with new insert soon. Happy Thanksgiving to you, your family and all the northern neighbors.



Thanks for the greetings, just finished off my thanksgiving dinner (really lunch) with a Irish coffee and pumpkin pie (of course there was whip cream on it).  Now sitting on my couch in front of my fireplace opening and reading a little hearth.com.  Can't wait for the insert to come.


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## ScotO (Oct 10, 2011)

cowtown said:
			
		

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Your repair looks fine, can't wait to see the finished product....and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.....that smoked lamb sounds tasty, now you got me hungry!!


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## wjb111 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cowtown, 

Post some pictures when you get your T5 installed. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

I just purchased a T5 insert last weekend. We had a Auroa freestanding wood stove in our prior house but it has been 14 years. We miss the heat from wood. My existing fireplace is pretty much worthless. I have only had 2 or 3 fires in it. The furnace run more with a fire vs without a fire, major up draft I guess.
The place I bought the T5 insert from says PE claims it isn't available until early 2012 but he seems to think he can find one through one of his distributors. I hope so because it's getting rather chilly here in Michigan. To say the least I am quite fired up  about getting it installed & cooking. Here is a picture of my existing fireplace. I will post a picture of the new T5 when she gets installed. Hopefully sooner than later. 
I was limited on my inserts due to clearances. From the hearth up to the first trim piece under the mantle was the issue. I did a lot of research & was going to get the VC Montpeiler but the T5 seems to be better built, better warranty & better suited for my needs. I am going to use it for a supplemental heat source & try to save a few $ on the natural gas.
Cap Cod style house approx 1800 sq ft plus a full basement.

Chilly in Michigan
Bill B.


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## cowtown (Nov 1, 2011)

wjb111 said:
			
		

> Cowtown,
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Wow - my fireplace screen looks very similar to yours (at first glance I thought it was mine).  Well the T5 Insert story is as follows:

The dealer said it should be ready to go in 2 weeks and that was 4 weeks ago .  However, that being said, Pacific Energy contacted my dealer and indicated that the unit has been shipped - but I will believe it when I see it.  Your story in terms of a wait time make sense as I have been waiting on this stove for a while.  I was limited on clearances as well; hence, I went with the T5 Insert.   I am not as serious as some of the burners on this forum.  I am just going to use it for supplemental heat.

Question for you, are you going to feed your T5 with outside air or inside air (if you read the manual you have the option of either or).  I am going with outside air (but this doesn't mean it is the right way to go).

I will start new thread once I get it, and the guys start the intall.  I am thinking in the next three weeks.

One more question for you - where in Michigan are you?  I actually went to school in Windsor Ontario, right across from Detroit.  I used to hit some of the bars in Detroit back in the day as drinking there was cheaper than drinking in Canada.


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## wjb111 (Nov 2, 2011)

cowtown,

What are the pros & cons for using outside vs inside air feed? I don't know what would be the best with my setup. I have a mid 70's 2 story house that is somewhat air tight with upgraded windows & doors. Are you going to have a blocker plate installed?  From what I have been reading it seems to make sense but no quite sure. Any thoughts?  Anybodies suggestions are appreciated.
I am about 65 miles north of Detroit, in the Flint area & born in the Motor City (Detroit)
Go Lions, Tigers & Red Wings !

Hope we both can be burning the new T5 soon.... 

Bill B.


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## cowtown (Nov 2, 2011)

wjb111 said:
			
		

> cowtown,
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> What are the pros & cons for using outside vs inside air feed? I don't know what would be the best with my setup. I have a mid 70's 2 story house that is somewhat air tight with upgraded windows & doors. Are you going to have a blocker plate installed?  From what I have been reading it seems to make sense but no quite sure. Any thoughts?  Anybodies suggestions are appreciated.
> I am about 65 miles north of Detroit, in the Flint area & born in the Motor City (Detroit)
> ...



Outside feed vs. Inside feed is a very touchy subject on this forum.

Why I decided to go with outside air is described here
http://chimneysweeponline.com/hooa.htm
and
http://chimneysweeponline.com/hooa3.htm

I have asked for a block off plate, but my installer is reluctant.  I then asked him to simply shove up some Roxul and he is okay with this.

My house is 1979 wo we have a similar vintage (I also have 2 stories)

Also, just got a call from the dealer, the intall is going to take place Nov 11 - getting excited about it.

The only sport I follow is baseball and being born in Toronto, I am a big time Jays fan (too bad the Tigers and the Jays are not still in the same division as they were way back when)


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## wjb111 (Nov 11, 2011)

Good luck with the t5 insert install today. You have got to be fired up to get it fired up. Post a few pics...

Chiily in Michigan
And waiting for my t5 classic.J


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## cowtown (Nov 12, 2011)

wjb111 said:
			
		

> Good luck with the t5 insert install today. You have got to be fired up to get it fired up. Post a few pics...
> 
> Chiily in Michigan
> And waiting for my t5 classic.J



They bumped me to tomorrow (the guy doing part of the install became a father on Thursday - so Friday was a "no-go").  

I will take some pics for sure.


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