# Short bars on 50cc saws?



## bassJAM (Oct 22, 2014)

So I originally got my 550xp with an 18" bar when I thought it would be my only saw.  But now I've got a Dolkita 6421 that primarily wears a 20", so the 18" on the Husqvarna seems redundant (especially with the monster Makita spikes taking away 2" of bar length!).  So I'm really considering a 13" bar on the Husqvarna.  It seems like anything shorter than 16" isn't really popular in the states on a 50cc saw, but I find that the 18" is just a little too long and it gets in the way more than it helps when limbing, and I can't see that a 16" would be a heck of a lot different.

So has anyone used such a short bar on a saw this size and have any thoughts they'd like to share.  Right now I'm leaning towards a 13" bar, but would consider a 15" as well.  Primary use for this saw is limbing and bucking smaller pieces, and I tend to reach for the Makita after things get above 10".


----------



## Chimney Smoke (Oct 22, 2014)

My dad's saw has a 16 inch bar and mine has an 18.  Honestly the 16 feels much smaller after using the 18 all the time.  I don't think I would put a 13 inch bar on a full size saw because the weight of the saw itself doesn't really change.  If you wanted a little limbing saw I'd get a small overall saw designed for a short bar, it would feel much handier.  Just my .02


----------



## TMonter (Oct 22, 2014)

I run a 16" on my 346XP and it's just about right actually. It has reasonable reach and is still very maneuverable. I don't know that I would go less than a 16 on it unless you were going to do climbing with it and at that point a top handle saw would make more sense.


----------



## TreePointer (Oct 22, 2014)

I have a 16" NK bar on a 346XP (predecessor to the 550XP), and I wouldn't want to go smaller.  It is perfectly balanced for limbing and can buck wider logs without making multiple cuts.  

I have saws with smaller bars, but I actually prefer the longer reach for limbing.  My 38cc saw with a 14" bar is light and nimble; however, there is a trade-off.  There is a lot more bending down and reaching with a short bar.


----------



## bassJAM (Oct 22, 2014)

See, I don't really use the reach of my bar.  I tend to just move to where I need to and place the saw so it's cutting as close to the powerhead as possible with every cut.  I almost never cut near the end of the bar.


----------



## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2014)

I run a 12" on a 42cc saw and it's great, BUT the balance of that thing feels off. It almost seems not worth it, IMO, but I do need a new chain, so I guess I'm not the perfect source for this...


----------



## Jags (Oct 22, 2014)

When I have the need to limb out a tree, I do the exact opposite.  I strap the 25" bar on and just walk down the tree.  I am not sure that I would like the powerhead to be the heavy end.  If I am gonna be out of balance, I would want it to be towards the bar end.  Personal pref.


----------



## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2014)

Jags said:


> When I have the need to limb out a tree, I do the exact opposite.  I strap the 25" bar on and just walk down the tree.  I am not sure that I would like the powerhead to be the heavy end.  If I am gonna be out of balance, I would want it to be towards the bar end.  Personal pref.


No bending over, that's how I do it, too.


----------



## TreePointer (Oct 22, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> See, I don't really use the reach of my bar.  I tend to just move to where I need to and place the saw so it's cutting as close to the powerhead as possible with every cut.  I almost never cut near the end of the bar.



You need to stop by our farm and cut treetops from a timber harvest all day or at least an afternoon.  At sundown, I'll ask you if you still like your short bar.  Reach and balance are important during longer cutting sessions.

Well, that's my perspective.  I do recognize that not everyone cuts the same type of wood and the same way.  Other than shelling out cash, there's no reason not to try a short bar and chain.  It's an easily reversible change.  On a 50cc saw, I'll vote for a 16" NK bar (weighs less) and regular kerf .325 chain as it's sweet spot.


----------



## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2014)

you could probably find a short woodland pro B&C for under 30 bucks.


----------



## jeff_t (Oct 22, 2014)

Since I have the choice of a 20" or 28" bar on saws that are identical except for displacement, I find myself living with the big one. The longer bar makes it conveniently nose heavy.

I had a 270 with a 18" bar and swapped it for a 16". I liked the 16 much better.


----------



## bassJAM (Oct 22, 2014)

I could maybe see the benefit after cutting all day on reach, definitely on balance.  Balance is what's got me thinking about a 15" bar.  I just find it odd that the other side of the pond prefers a much shorter bar on saws and thinks 15" is the outer limit on a 50cc saw.  There's got to be a valid reason for their thinking.  I know as American's we tend to like things big, but often I'm aligned more with the European train of thought.   I'll take a small sports car that's slower but handles any day over a fast muscle car, same as I'd take a light handling motorcycle long before I'd own a heavy cruiser.


----------



## Jags (Oct 22, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> I just find it odd that the other side of the pond prefers a much shorter bar on saws and thinks 15" is the outer limit on a 50cc saw.



It changes all over the place.  Over the pond doesn't have any old growth trees negating the need for long bars.  The west coasters here in the states will strap a 28" bar on an MS 290.


----------



## TreePointer (Oct 22, 2014)

Don't read too many SawTroll posts--you will end up with a 3" bar.


----------



## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2014)

What you do is get an old saw with an auto & manual oiler combo. Then you determine the longest bar that your automatic oiler can handle and then add about 6 inches to that length and put a skip chain on it. Then you do thumb workouts every day so you don't get tired on saw days.


----------



## Pennsyltucky Chris (Oct 22, 2014)

I use an 18" on my ms 250. And a 24" on my Husqvarna 460.

The Stihl isn't that great. It's too small cc-wise. The 60cc 460 rips like nobodies bidness.


----------



## efoyt (Oct 22, 2014)

I just got a new husqvarna 550xp.  It came with an 18 inch bar ( still in sealed box ) and chain.  This is going to be my only chain saw going forword.  I burn 2-3 cord per year prob cut 5-6 cord a year with my father.  I do some sugaring and have a large chunk of property.  I'll prob use my fathers 65cc Stihl to do a portion of the bucking.  So my question is should I stick with my 18 inch bar or try to trade it for a 16 inch bar?


----------



## Rossco (Oct 22, 2014)

Sell the 550.


----------



## D8Chumley (Oct 22, 2014)

I have a 16" on my 025, and that has become the saw I use most. Good power and balance IMO


----------



## dznam (Oct 22, 2014)

With a 13" bar that saw will feel (and be) unbalanced. If you need/want a 13" bar, sell the saw and buy a smaller one. As stated by others, limbing is much lower effort with a long bar - you might want to consider trying to change your technique if you do a lot of it.


----------



## missedbass (Oct 23, 2014)

efoyt said:


> I just got a new husqvarna 550xp.  It came with an 18 inch bar ( still in sealed box ) and chain.  This is going to be my only chain saw going forword.  I burn 2-3 cord per year prob cut 5-6 cord a year with my father.  I do some sugaring and have a large chunk of property.  I'll prob use my fathers 65cc Stihl to do a portion of the bucking.  So my question is should I stick with my 18 inch bar or try to trade it for a 16 inch bar?


 I would swap it out for a 16


----------



## JustWood (Oct 23, 2014)

Jags said:


> It changes all over the place.  Over the pond doesn't have any old growth trees negating the need for long bars.  The west coasters here in the states will strap a 28" bar on an MS 290.


Eons of raping and pillaging the land and wars have left Europe pretty barren. Agreed , not much there as far as big timber.
As far as bar length. I run 20" on everything. I've never felt the need to have an armament of different size chains and bars floating around . KISS method I guess.


----------



## Jags (Oct 23, 2014)

JustWood said:


> I run 20" on everything.


On occasion I do run into some big stuff, hence the 25" bar.  My "normal" bar that does 85% plus of my cutting is an 18" on my  MS361.  The 361 with 18" of bar and a sharp chain is a wood cutting animal.


----------



## bassJAM (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm not sure if the "they have smaller trees" theory holds water.  Because if you're only cutting smaller trees, why not save some money on a saw and step down to the next smaller size?  Heck, they pay more for gasoline than we do, so surely they'd want a smaller saw for the fuel savings alone!


----------



## efoyt (Oct 23, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Sell the 550.


Why?


----------



## Rossco (Oct 23, 2014)

efoyt said:


> Why?



Sell it and buy something like a 543. It is more suited to the small bars. 

Or maybe just pocket the cash and take the wife out somewhere nice. 

I run a 555 20" and wouldn't dream about buying anything within 30cc's of it.


----------



## TMonter (Oct 23, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Sell it and buy something like a 543. It is more suited to the small bars.
> 
> Or maybe just pocket the cash and take the wife out somewhere nice.
> 
> I run a 555 20" and wouldn't dream about buying anything within 30cc's of it.



I think if you had two or more saws you might think differently. A 50 cc size is excellent for smaller work and limbing especially with a short bar on it and then having a second larger saw for bigger work is nice. If I had to choose just two saws I'd do my 372 XPW (75cc) and my 346xp (50cc).

Don't forget how big a deal weight is. A couple pounds might not sound like a lot but at the end of the day when you're tired, two pounds to be continually lifting can be a lot.


----------



## TreePointer (Oct 23, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> I'm not sure if the "they have smaller trees" theory holds water.  Because if you're only cutting smaller trees, why not save some money on a saw and step down to the next smaller size?  Heck, they pay more for gasoline than we do, so surely they'd want a smaller saw for the fuel savings alone!



Think of German engineers and cars.  The same thing holds for chainsaws. 

* Chain speed (linear distance)
* Throttle response (helps when doing a lot of limbing)
* Safety (fast cuts can prevent dangerous situations when felling)
* Efficiency (sometimes making faster cuts can use less fuel than multiple cuts with a smaller saw)

Why drive a Volkswagen when you can drive a Porsche?


----------



## Rossco (Oct 23, 2014)

TMonter said:


> I think if you had two or more saws you might think differently. A 50 cc size is excellent for smaller work and limbing especially with a short bar on it and then having a second larger saw for bigger work is nice. If I had to choose just two saws I'd do my 372 XPW (75cc) and my 346xp (50cc).
> 
> Don't forget how big a deal weight is. A couple pounds might not sound like a lot but at the end of the day when you're tired, two pounds to be continually lifting can be a lot.



Yeah I can see the logic and 100% agree, but it all depends of circumstance.

When I go out looking for wood I ain't gonna carry three saws. I usually have no idea what I might find, so a nice 60cc with a 20" bar covers 90% of the bases. The wood i look for is either so dead the branches are gone or 90% of the tree doesnt have branches. If I Had logs delivered to my house IDE have 3 saws for sure.

I tell I little lie, I do have a 24" bar for The saw but, has seen little action as I won't mount it unless I have a lead on a tree that requires it.

Most cutters around here are solo saw guys and a popular unit is the timeless 365 special.


----------



## CTBurner (Oct 23, 2014)

Jags said:


> On occasion I do run into some big stuff, hence the 25" bar.  My "normal" bar that does 85% plus of my cutting is an 18" on my  MS361.  The 361 with 18" of bar and a sharp chain is a wood cutting animal.



+1


----------



## efoyt (Oct 23, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Sell it and buy something like a 543. It is more suited to the small bars.
> 
> Or maybe just pocket the cash and take the wife out somewhere nice.
> 
> I run a 555 20" and wouldn't dream about buying anything within 30cc's of it.




I don't have anything within 30cc's of it.  The 550 is my only saw.


----------



## Rossco (Oct 23, 2014)

efoyt said:


> I don't have anything within 30cc's of it.  The 550 is my only saw.



NA I was aiming my posts at the OP. 

He's got a 50cc and a 65cc. He prefers the 65 over the 50 for sure.


----------



## bassJAM (Oct 24, 2014)

Rossco said:


> NA I was aiming my posts at the OP.
> 
> He's got a 50cc and a 65cc. He prefers the 65 over the 50 for sure.



As of last night the 64cc is now a 79cc.  Mostly because I didn't prefer the Makita over the Husqvarna, that 550 puts out some impressive power for is size and handling and I found that I rarely used the Makita.  Now I've got a beast of a saw that will normally wear a 20" bar (with a 28" when I need it), so why have 2 saws with essentially the same bar length?


----------



## Rossco (Oct 24, 2014)

bassJAM said:


> As of last night the 64cc is now a 79cc.  Mostly because I didn't prefer the Makita over the Husqvarna, that 550 puts out some impressive power for is size and handling and I found that I rarely used the Makita.  Now I've got a beast of a saw that will normally wear a 20" bar (with a 28" when I need it), so why have 2 saws with essentially the same bar length?



Awesome. So you have an 80cc and a 50cc?

Perfect. 

If I was shopping for another saw then IDE go with a Husky 395 or something and keep a long bar on it. Just for the odd 3' Tammy or fir.


----------



## bassJAM (Oct 24, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Awesome. So you have an 80cc and a 50cc?
> 
> Perfect.
> 
> If I was shopping for another saw then IDE go with a Husky 395 or something and keep a long bar on it. Just for the odd 3' Tammy or fir.



There's actually been a HD Makita 6421 listed on Craigslist for about 6 days now, it's tempting to pick it up and convert it to 79cc just to leave a 28" bar on, maybe do a little milling with it too.  But I think my next saw purchase will be a 50cc pro saw for my dad.  He has a MS310, but since using my brother's 026 he clearly prefers the 026.


----------



## smokedragon (Nov 1, 2014)

TreePointer said:


> You need to stop by our farm and cut treetops from a timber harvest all day or at least an afternoon.  At sundown, I'll ask you if you still like your short bar.  Reach and balance are important during longer cutting sessions.
> 
> Well, that's my perspective.  I do recognize that not everyone cuts the same type of wood and the same way.  Other than shelling out cash, there's no reason not to try a short bar and chain.  It's an easily reversible change.  On a 50cc saw, I'll vote for a 16" NK bar (weighs less) and regular kerf .325 chain as it's sweet spot.



You know it is funny you mention that.  I run my MS290 with a 16" bar (the shortest Stihl suggests).  I like it because it doesn't bog down for much with that short b/c combo. 

I have a 066 with  25" b/c on it, and if I am not in really thick nasty stuff, I prefer to limb the tree with that (because I can hold the saw in a comfortable position close to my body and cut limbs without bending at all).

But the 290 is a must for anything overhead (cause you ain't gonna hold that 066 up there long).


----------



## Freakingstang (Nov 8, 2014)

I ran a Dolmar 5100 for years with a gb pro top 13" bar. I still have a couple of those bars. I now have a 550 with a 16" 

I also got made fun of for year for the short bar. Faster chain speed, less teeth to sharpen and wicked performance. Balance is fine. Then again I ran 20" on modded 70-80cc saws too. If I need a big bar, I grab a bigger saw.


----------



## computeruser (Nov 11, 2014)

dznam said:


> With a 13" bar that saw will feel (and be) unbalanced. If you need/want a 13" bar, sell the saw and buy a smaller one. As stated by others, limbing is much lower effort with a long bar - you might want to consider trying to change your technique if you do a lot of it.



The trouble with generalizations is that, well, they don't always hold true.

For the work I do removing invasive trees (buckthorn, honeysuckle, ailanthus), a 13" bar is ideal.  Currently running them on a 238se, 242xp, 346xp, 346xpg, and 545.  Even for firewood and larger felling work, they're still fine if proper technique is used for felling.  The shorter bar keeps weight down, keeps the bar tip out of the dirt (I like to leave my stumps 2-3" off the ground), and makes sharpening super quick and easy.  And the balance is, to my taste at least, great.  If you think of the saw less as a saw and more as a scalpel, it might make more sense why this setup works.

For "limbing" in the softwood tree sense of things, I think a short bar makes life a lot easier - lighter, less momentum to redirect, less bar tip bumping into stuff, etc..  For breaking down open crown hardwood trees, I think it depends more on the particular tree.  But a lot has to do with the technique used.  If you watch some of the European saw videos on YouTube and elsewhere, it is clear that their style of working a tree from felling through processing is different from the prevailing techniques used here in the US and Canada, particularly by non-professional sawyers.

I guess my point in this is to offer the suggestion that a blanket statement re: 13" bars on 40-50cc powerheads being ill-advised.  Don't knock it until you try it.  Maybe it won't work for your particular cutting needs, but maybe it will work very well.


----------



## bassJAM (Nov 12, 2014)

Thanks for your input computeruser.  In spite of most of the advise on here, I'll probably pick up a 13" bar this winter and give it a try.  I do tend to think of the saw as more of a scalpel, and in that way an 18" is overkill, especially when I already have an 80cc saw with a 20" bar.  I'll have to check out some of the vids you mentioned on European techniques, I never even thought of looking at youtube for limbing techniques.


----------



## Danno77 (Nov 12, 2014)

This is such a cheap experiment that I can't see why one wouldn't try it. Never hurts to have an extra bar and chain setup even if you decide not to run it on a regular basis.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Nov 12, 2014)

I run a 16" on my ported 346XP and a 24" on my ported 390XP.


----------

