# Viega Pro-Press



## NCFord (Jun 23, 2014)

Anyone use the Viega Pro-Press fittings for copper?  I am putting a new boiler(nat. gas) for my father and
thought about using these fittings.  A bit more money for the fittings but it's seems like it would save a lot of time.  It seems it would work much like pex but have all the advantages of copper AND when I get in a tight spot I don't have to worry about burning the house down!  I don't seem to remember much talk about the pro press fittings here.


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## cityboy172 (Jun 23, 2014)

NCFord said:


> Anyone use the Viega Pro-Press fittings for copper?  I am putting a new boiler(nat. gas) for my father and
> thought about using these fittings.  A bit more money for the fittings but it's seems like it would save a lot of time.  It seems it would work much like pex but have all the advantages of copper AND when I get in a tight spot I don't have to worry about burning the house down!  I don't seem to remember much talk about the pro press fittings here.


We have used it in the past, and are using it exclusively on a job right now where hot work permits are a pain. Have had zero problems on clean pipe. Only had one or two issues that were resolved by  recrimping. I have faith in the system. If you have access to the gun, I see no reason why not.


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## NCFord (Jun 23, 2014)

I just looked up the price of a crimp tool, first I did not see a hand type crimp tool and second the hydraulic ones are really expensive.  I will have to see about borrowing one.


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## cityboy172 (Jun 23, 2014)

NCFord said:


> I just looked up the price of a crimp tool, first I did not see a hand type crimp tool and second the hydraulic ones are really expensive.  I will have to see about borrowing one.


I do not know of a hand tool. Look into local supply houses that might rent one if you don't know some one. If you find the right supply house It might be more like borrowing then renting.


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## NCFord (Jun 23, 2014)

thanks I will look into that


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## heaterman (Jun 24, 2014)

No hand tool available. The press "gun" develops pressure measured in the 10,000PSI range. 

We had a few issues with the fittings when used with antifreeze. They didn't really leak as in drip, but after a year or so every fitting had a green ring around the joint from antifreeze oozing through the joint. 
Propylene glycol molecules are much smaller than water molecules and will pass through places where 100% water will not.


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## BoilerMan (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm still in the bandwagon of not trusting any type of rubber seal for a truly permanent install.  Heat, movement from expansion and contraction, and I'll bet we'll see leaks in <20 years.   O-rings on replaceable things is one thing, but fittings........

TS


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## jebatty (Jun 25, 2014)

Pro-Press for copper was used on the Froling install at Deep Portage in summer of 2011, also on system improvements in 2013, sizes up to 1-1/4". Also used on system improvements for the Wood Gun and Garn in 2011, copper sizes up to 1-1/2". Now again used this past week on the domestic hot water improvements for the solar evacuated tube system, copper sizes up to 1-1/2". The heating systems use a glycol mix and pressures up to 30 psi. The domestic hot water system has pressures up to 70 psi on the domestic side and up to 30 psi on the solar side with glycol. 

No fitting failed to seal and no issues of any kind have surfaced to date. Obviously time will tell the story. The speed in installing fittings vs soldering is very fast. Also, on old work with potential of water in the piping and the difficulty of soldering in that situation, Pro-Press handles just as easily as new install.


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## arbutus (Jun 25, 2014)

We are installing it at work now for all potable water service, and many nonpotable water/chemical feed feedlines.
A boiler blowdown line out of stainless propress was installed recently too.

It has been installed in the boiler system in the church we attend for a few years now without issue.

I would have done my heating system with it (non glycol) if I had free or low cost access to the tool, but we are not allowed to borrow it.


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## BoilerMan (Jun 25, 2014)

Consider that tires will harden with time even if they are not installed on a vehicle.  The physical properties of rubber change with time, ozone exposure, heat exposure, etc.  

From my years in the automotive field I can tell you that any type of rubber gasket (and there are many) is pretty much a guaranteed leak-free joining of any two metals.  However give it time and heat and it is also guaranteed to shrink and/or crack and when it is removed it is hard and brittle not able to bridge the gap between the two metals any longer.  Anyone a Chrysler product that had leaking valve cover gaskets?  Ever had an A/C leak in an automotive quick coupeling from any manufacturer?  Some have triple O rings, and they all harden, HBNR, silicone, EPDM all do it.

This is the basis for my skepticism for this type of installation.  Anyone remember the 80's and polybutelene pipe?  Or a better example is GoodYear's radiant heat rubber tubing that was embedded in concrete slabs (prior to the use of PEX).  Those systems were the cat's meow and didn't leak or show any problems of any kind until a few years ago, keep in mind these are low-temp systems.  

I'm a time-will-tell kind of guy, I do use PEX in radiant systems, as it's been proven since the 60's in Europe.  Rubber components in closed systems well have not been proven...........yet.  

TS


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## jebatty (Jun 26, 2014)

I share the concern and also will wait and see. O-rings seem to be nearly everywhere now. Here's one link that gives properties of various o-ring materials -- 
http://www.marcorubber.com/materialguide.htm


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## NCFord (Jul 2, 2014)

After not being able to find a tool and the so-so response here I decided to use black pipe and regular copper for the install.  Cosidering the fact that the boiler I am replacing is close to 60 years old I may as well use the best materials now and not have any regrets later.
Maybe this new boiler will last 60 years as well!


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## BoilerMan (Jul 8, 2014)

NCFord said:


> Cosidering the fact that the boiler I am replacing is close to 60 years old I may as well use the best materials now and not have any regrets later.
> Maybe this new boiler will last 60 years as well!



Good to know, if pro-press had been around 60 years ago, and those joints were still looking good then I (and I dare say many others here) would have a different opinion.  

Tried and true my friend.

TS


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## Bob Rohr (Jul 11, 2014)

BoilerMan said:


> Good to know, if pro-press had been around 60 years ago, and those joints were still looking good then I (and I dare say many others here) would have a different opinion.
> 
> Tried and true my friend.
> 
> TS



  Just some info.  the Viega press system has be used in Europe since the late 1980's in the US since late 1990's.  The Viega fittings carry a 50 year warranty, as do Nibco and most of the competitors press fittings..

Also they do offer a special o-ring if you plan on using press on solar with 300°F plus temperature potential.

EPDM is used on many valve seals and packings and has been used for roofing material dating back to the 1970's.

The best EPDM for hydronic is peroxide cured to cross link it, as Uponor does with the PEX tubing.


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## BoilerMan (Jul 13, 2014)

Just call me a skeptic.  I want a track record or 50+ years in service before I'm burying anything in a wall in my own house.   Just like the sharkbite fittings, Victaulic now being used for heating etc, I don't think is will last as long as the building it's installed in.  We all know sweat copper will.  

TS


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## Bob Rohr (Jul 13, 2014)

BoilerMan said:


> Just call me a skeptic.  I want a track record or 50+ years in service before I'm burying anything in a wall in my own house.   Just like the sharkbite fittings, Victaulic now being used for heating etc, I don't think is will last as long as the building it's installed in.  We all know sweat copper will.
> 
> TS


  How old will you be when press has a 50 year track record in the us?  

30 years from now it may all be composite pipe.  Many progressive contractors are already doing 2" and larger with composite, melted together.

Did you wait 50 years to install ABS/ PVC and pex?


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## BoiledOver (Jul 14, 2014)

New technology can be sacry for sure. I say move forward.


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## BoilerMan (Jul 14, 2014)

There has been PVC pipe in use since the 70s and I'm good with that.  There have been too many debacles from piping materials used for heating in the past.  No track record, no go.  I'm also a licensed electrician and back in the 60s ALCOA pushed for aluminum wire as it was a cheaper alternative to copper.  Well small gauge aluminum wire "Aluminum Romex" was installed and many houses burned.  Later they came up with a different alloy which had better thermal expansion characteristics and much fewer failures.  I use aluminum wire extensively, but it's large gauge (#6AWG and larger) with NOALOX an anti-oxide paste.  It's feeding my house as it may be yours as well.  

Everything worked for a decade or two, then things started to get hot.  No one saw it coming.  

There is no laboratory test than can truly duplicate time in the field.  I'm beating a dead horse now...I'm out.

TS


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## cityboy172 (Jul 14, 2014)

There can be issues. with the "old school" ways.  There have been lawsuits against some solder companies about there failure rate. Can you imagine using the same solder for years in a commercial application and then coming to the realization several years down the road That the whole building is failing?

Now to a more recent issue. Lead free valves (and other brass items in solder systems). It's not what guys are used to. It doesn't behave the way the old valves did during the process. I have a feeling this will present a lot of issues down the road. Nibco sent a rep. to our shop and did a demo. Almost all the guys were there.  There were 25+ year Journeyman there, everyone did their best joint. Almost all of them looked good. Until they got cut and split apart. 

My point? Things change. The target moves. It's not always a bad thing.


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## BoilerMan (Jul 16, 2014)

cityboy172 said:


> My point? Things change. The target moves. It's not always a bad thing.



My point is it's not always a good thing either.  Some will jump on the bandwagon just because something is new or "easier".  50/50 or 60/40 lead solder always had worked well.....  Not saying that we should still use it, but on heating systems I see no reason not to.  Potable water, well obviously that is different.  

TS


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