# taking ownership of a Jotul Firelight Model 12



## adkhunter (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi all...new here and was looking to hear what ya'll think about the Jotul Firelight Model 12 wood stoves. My parents bought a house that has a big 3 car detached garage that they have no use for so me and my fiance are turning it into a 3 bedroom house for us and our 5 yr old and baby thats on the way and due febuary. It will be 2 floor and about 1900 sq ft once completed (about 3 months from now...starting construction tomorrow) We plan on heating primarily with a wood stove and my parents house came with this white Jotul thats in great shape and they have offered for us to have it because my mother wants a black colored stove instead of white. I personally dont prefer white either but hey its FREE haha! Figured I could always get around to painting it black later down the road. I have grown up around wood stoves but have no prior experience with a Jotul. Was hoping someone on here could fill me in on opinions of this stove and maybe known problems or advice on keeping it in good operating condition. Thanks for any insight anyone might have!


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## BrotherBart (Aug 20, 2012)

Welcome. The price is right and there are some Jotul 12 burners here that can fill you in.

I do know they work better standing upright.


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## BrowningBAR (Aug 20, 2012)

That's in really nice shape. The F12 is the predecessor to the F600. What is the condition of the catalyst?




> It will be 2 floor and about 1900 sq ft once completed


 
The Jotul should do just fine heating 1900 sq ft.


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## DexterDay (Aug 20, 2012)

PM member Joful. He has 2 (just obtained the 2nd because he liked the 1st so much).

Thats a dandy of a stove.... But one thing that you will need with that stove is Seasoned wood.. By seasoned, it should be Cut/Split/Stacked for about a yr. Most old school burners cut there wood right before burning. But newer EPA stoves (Cat and Secondary burn) need dry fuel. 

Do you have any reputable firewood sellers in the area? A moisture meter will pay dividends when they deliver. Split a piece in half (split a split) and measure the moisture content on the fresh face. Below 20% is optimal. Although it may be hard to get that... 

Welcome to the Forums. Lots of friendly folk to help you with the install, all the way through to the operations of that Cat stove (its beautiful by the way!)


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

Nice stove! Yep... I just bought a second, but honestly, I have no clue what I'm doing. I've read more about wood stoves than any one person ever should, but having only one year on my first Firelight 12, I'm short on first-hand experience. I bought the Firelight 12 because it was the only attractive front-loading cast iron catalytic stove I could find without serious quality or maintenance issues. Jotul is a good company with a very long history of making top-notch stoves.

The only common failures I've found with this stove are:

1. Inner burn plate tends to crack if overfired. This is the small 12" square plate that covers the catalyst. A crack in it, as long as it's not a gaping hole, is not really a big issue. It's only separating the cat chamber from the firebox. If you're type 1 anal OCD like me, you can replace this part for $70.

2. The air control lever tends to stick in the full-closed position. After the first few years (?) of manufacture, Jotul added a small access door to the tunnel below the front doors, so that you could get in there and lubricate / adjust this lever.

3. The catalyst chamber is somewhat fragile. You will never damage it during normal operation, but a squirrel down your chimney can destory it, as can being clumsy when you remove and reinstall the catalyst.

Read up on cat stoves vs. non-cat stoves, and decide if a cat stove is for you. If you think it is, then you'll likely be happy with your Firelight 12. Congrats!

PS - If you remove the top, or disconnect the pedal mechanism for any reason, be damn careful about keeping that top load door SHUT! I've seen several Firelight 12's with broken lid hinges (and broken lids!), due to them flopping open in this circumstance.


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## adkhunter (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for the advice everyone!
Sorry for the pics being sideways I'm not sure why they uploaded that way?..they were taken straight on and were straight on the computer but uploaded here to the site all goofy.

The catalyst is in good shape and clean..the previous owners of the house were VERY meticulous with everything they owned..The old man has every receipt to every purchased and even had records of ALL oil changes he even did on the 1967 Ford truck he had haha..they took great care of everything here.

As far as wood goes I plan on burning only seasoned wood.  I grew up with wood stoves and have had them in every house I've lived in so no problem there.  My dads buddy is a logger and we get truck loads of full logs for no cost..just have to cut and split on our own which is no problem.  We get enough logs delivered and split it all that it lasts about 3 years so everything will be plenty dry and ready to burn.  

Anyone know what burn time I can expect out of this stove by any chance?

Thanks again everyone!


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## DexterDay (Aug 20, 2012)

Do you have the logs cut yet? If not, it wont be dry/seasoned before Winter.....


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2012)

adkhunter said:


> Anyone know what burn time I can expect out of this stove by any chance?


 
As a beginner, I was not loading it full. Even so, I was getting 10 hours on my loads.

The minimum BTU's to keep the cat going is somewhere around 10,500 BTU. Seasoned firewood has anywhere from 15 - 30 million BTUh's, translating to 117,000 to 234,000 BTUh per cu.ft. So, make some guesses on the min/max burn rates within a given burn cycle, and how much wood you can fit in that firebox, and you'll come up with some theoretical number in the range of 15 - 30 hours.  I personally doubt you'd ever see 20 hours without a BK-style thermostat control, and maybe a more experienced stover can give you a better number, but a 3.0 cu.ft. cat stove has the potential to burn a LONG time.


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## dafattkidd (Aug 20, 2012)

I have no useful advice with what to expect with this unit. But my opinion on the ivory enamel:  You are crazy to paint that stove. That is one of the most beautiful stoves I've ever seen.


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## adkhunter (Aug 20, 2012)

No the wood for this winter is not cut since we just moved here last month.  We are going to have to buy seasoned already cut wood for this winter unfortunatly.  But I know a guy where I can get that from so no problem there! 

Thanks Joful! I was hoping to get 10 hours or even better out of this stove!  I will be away most of the day at work so the wife will be in charge of keeping the stove going so I was hoping I could load it in the morning and it would last until I got home.  As long as it keeps the house warm the wife is a happy camper...and you know what they say..a happy wife equals a happy husband haha!

Haha ya it is a good looking stove I probably will never paint it..was only a thought haha.  Im used to black stoves and have never had a white one...wasnt quite sure if I liked it or not at first but the more I look at it the more I like it...so it will most likely stay the way it is!


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## BrowningBAR (Aug 20, 2012)

adkhunter said:


> No the wood for this winter is not cut since we just moved here last month. We are going to have to buy seasoned already cut wood for this winter unfortunatly. But I know a guy where I can get that from so no problem there!
> 
> Thanks Joful! I was hoping to get 10 hours or even better out of this stove! I will be away most of the day at work so the wife will be in charge of keeping the stove going so I was hoping I could load it in the morning and it would last until I got home. As long as it keeps the house warm the wife is a happy camper...and you know what they say..a happy wife equals a happy husband haha!
> 
> Haha ya it is a good looking stove I probably will never paint it..was only a thought haha. Im used to black stoves and have never had a white one...wasnt quite sure if I liked it or not at first but the more I look at it the more I like it...so it will most likely stay the way it is!


 

Just a tip; if you do decide to paint the stove you will need to sand blast the enamel coating first to remove it before painting the stove. Otherwise the paint will not adhere to the surface and will run and flake once the stove is in use. Painting an enamel stove will end badly if the enamel is not removed.


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## adkhunter (Aug 20, 2012)

Thank you BrowningBAR I thought I might have to do that. I'm pretty sure my buddy has a sand blaster if he hasn't gotten rid of it. Hes sand blasted a few other things for me in the past so if I ever decide to repaint I will have to give him a call. Thanks for the advice!


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## begreen (Aug 21, 2012)

Don't touch that stove. Sell it if you don't appreciate the condition it's in. Seriously, that is a rare find and just like an antique cabinet, it's worth more in original good condition than tampered with. If you don't like the white, sell it and put the money into a new, black stove. If the interior is in as good condition the stove is worth $1500-2000 as is to the right buyer. That will buy you a nice new replacement, in black.


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## johnsgunworks (Aug 21, 2012)

That is a beautiful stove....+1 on doing a little research on the operation and maintenance of catalytic stoves if you have never operated one before.  That stove should heat you and your family
efficiently for years to come.


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## HollowHill (Aug 21, 2012)

I agree that stove is lovely as is.  I remembered seeing a striking set up with an ivory Jotul stove that used to be on the home page for awhile, now see pg 5 under gallery, woodstove section (sorry, tried to paste link in and failed).


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## myselfnjit (Nov 24, 2012)

ADKhunter, I sent you a "conversation" about the stove.  wanted to make sure you got it...


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## Oldhippie (Nov 24, 2012)

Don't paint the stove. Build the house around the stove/garage with an eye toward heating with the stove. I love a central stove that becomes a centerpiece of the house.


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2012)

myselfnjit said:


> ADKhunter, I sent you a "conversation" about the stove. wanted to make sure you got it...


 
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/selling-our-jotul-firelight.94876/


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## raybonz (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree with BG it would be a sin to sandblast that enamel finish to paint it black! It looks like new so sell it if you must and buy a black one.. With proper care that stove should last a long time..

Ray


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## James Marusek (Apr 26, 2013)

The Firelight Woodstove in my opinion comes very close to being the most ideal woodstoves ever built.  It is a beautiful stove that was engineered for ease of use.  It is very easy to load firewood and to remove ash.  But it has one major flaw and that is probably why this wood stove is no longer on the market.  The Firelight is very energy efficient and very attractive.  The ceramic layer over the cast iron keeps the stove very clean.  My Firelight is now 17 years old and looks like the first day I brought it home.  The woodstove has a removable ashbin located under the stove, which allows the ashes to be removed cleanly.  It has a foot pedal that lifts up the door for loading firewood.  I walk into the house carrying several logs and step on the foot pedal.  This lifts up the top door and at the same time opens up the damper. This prevents billows of smoke from filling the room.  I load the firewood.  I then close the top door and after the stove warms up to its operating temperature, I close the damper.  The rope gaskets on the top and front doors are easy to replace.  The windows on the front doors allow a lovely view of the fire, which is calming and pleasing.

In my opinion, the main defect in this stove is the catalytically converter built into the middle of the stove.  This ceramic honeycomb catalytic combustor helps to burn the creosote gases efficiently providing a little more heat out of the wood and a cleaner exhaust up the chimney.  The ceramic converter is held in place with a back burn plate that is held by one large bolt (removable with a large Allen wrench).  The original directions on this stove asked me to remove and clean the ceramic converter once each year.  The first year I tried this and the ceramic converter literally fell apart in my hands.  I purchased a replacement converter.  They are expensive.  Currently they run around $120 each.  So I never took the back burn plate off again.  The stove worked fine for over a dozen years without any problems.  Then the back plate began to crack and the stove lost its efficiency.  I decided to replace the converter but this was a major problem. The large bolt over time was almost welded to the stove.  I had to cut the back plate off with a small diamond tipped grinding wheel to remove it.  That gave me some space to use oils to free up the bolt and remove it.  Fortunately, technology has improved and there are new catalytic converters on the market today.  I purchased a STEELCAST Steel Honeycomb Catalytic Combustor (CS-552) manufactured by Condar for our stove.  They are more ruggedized and heats up faster than the ceramic type.  They are more expensive than the ceramic, costing around $200.  But if they make this woodstove more functional, it’s worth it.  I suspect this defect is the reason why this stove is no longer on the market.  What a shame!


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## Ashful (Apr 26, 2013)

James Marusek said:


> I suspect this defect is the reason why this stove is no longer on the market. What a shame!


 
Several of us feel the way you do, and so I discussed this with Mark at Jotul, a tech who has been the company since they were still producing the Firelight 12. He agreed that it is one of the best stoves they ever made, but said that the reason for discontinuing actually had nothing to do with the design of the stove, and everything to do with getting the average consumer to run a catalytic stove without problems. Apparently, their number of service calls due to improper use or maintenance was much higher on this stove, than on any of their non-catalytic stoves. Also, there is an incorrect public perception that catalytic stoves are somehow troublesome or inferior to non-catalytic stoves, which I guess they found easier to join than fight. These were the reasons he gave me for Jotul getting out of the catalytic stove business.

Contrast that to those here, most of whom will admit that catalytic technology does build the superior heater, but the folks here at hearth.com are the exception. It's difficult to get the average consumer to even read the instruction manual.


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## aansorge (Apr 26, 2013)

My uncle has an '89 or '90 jotul that looks like that.  Did they build this stove back then?


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## Ashful (Apr 26, 2013)

aansorge said:


> My uncle has an '89 or '90 jotul that looks like that.  Did they build this stove back then?



They made stoves that looked like the F12 befor 1990, but I believe 1993 was the introductory year for the catalytic Firelight 12.


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## aansorge (Apr 26, 2013)

His is catalytic....what do you think it is?  It has the same air control, the same foot-pedal for top loader.


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## Ashful (Apr 27, 2013)

Then, I'd say it's a Firelight 12! I don't know of another similar catalytic stove they made with that foot pedal.

Are you sure it's that old? Maybe I was just mis-informed (or mis-remember) the introduction date of that stove.


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## aansorge (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm not sure, my Uncle thought he bought it around then, but I'll double check.  He has been running it without the catalyst for years now 
I've been trying to talk him into purchasing a new one. What are the differences in burn time?


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## stovelark (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi all-  the firelight 12 was made from 1993-1999.  The F500 Oslo came out and with secondary burn tubes and side loading was more powerful than the fl 12 cat stove.  The fl 12 top loader was competing with VC's top loading stoves, and was somewhat underpowered at 55,000 BTUs (Jotul's rating for the 12).  The Oslo sales were so good that Jotul quickly realized the FL needed to be converted too to secondary burn tubes and the F600 was born.  With the increased firebox capacity and the side loader on the opposite side of the Oslo, it restored the FL as the behemoth of Jotul, although most folks at Jotul would agree the F600 and the Oslo heated about the same.  We sold the stoves as what side do you want to load from to customers (the Oslo left facing, the Firelight right facing).  Some people still liked the FL's double front doors too, and the hex handle to open the front or side door, it gave the stove a swept appearance with no handles protruding. The fact is, the FL 12 was a great stove for people who wanted a top loading, catalytic model. The stove's achilles heel is the rear burn plate and its somewhat fragile catalytic housing chamber. Hey the F500/F600 isn't perfect either, if beat on the secondary tube manifold can loosen and fall out, I've fixed a few Oslos myself.  I burned an Oslo for 7 years, never had that issue, but it does happen, no stove is perfect.  I have come to the conclusion that steel stoves are the simplest and least fussy to operate, IMO. It probably doesn't matter too much what stove we all burn, good dry wood and they'll all keep us warm...


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## Ashful (Apr 27, 2013)

The F600 has a bigger firebox than the F12?  I had always been told they're the same size, same castings and all...


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## stovelark (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi Joful,   yes the f600 inner size was a little bigger, the upper framing and bypass damper assembly isn't in the F600, and the secondary tubes and manifold is sitting higher in the stove. The rear burnplate and catalytic chamber is gone too, giving a little more interior space.  You are right though in that all the outer castings and many of the interiors are exactly the same. Outwardly. originally the F600 had the same hex bolt on the side door as the front double doors' locking bolt, then Jotul affixed a handle to the side door (to match the Oslo side door handle), a lot of people were tired of the hex handle necessity. Outwardly, its hard to tell the difference in the two stoves except no right foot pedal on the 12. I'm sure there is a number for the firebox for the F600, the Oslo firebox was 2.5 cuft, I believe I'm right to say around 3.0 for the F600, that could be checked on Jotul's website. Either way, no slight for the FL 12, that was a heckuva stove, and as you know, is still fully supported with parts available still because there is a lot of FL 12 owners like yourself out there.


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## aansorge (Apr 28, 2013)

Did Jotul have Cat stoves before the Firelight?


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## stovelark (Apr 28, 2013)

Oh yeah, Jotul had the models 3 and 8, both catalytic. 3TDC, 8TDC were their models, earlier versions without ashpan, later versions had the ashpan (designated as AP on the end of the model numbers). Both models were in the 90's to meet EPA specs as most other stoves of that generation, the F500 came out in 1999, replacing the model 8 series.  Was a breakthrough with non-cat sec burntubes, thats why the Firelight went quickly to the same system.  Jotuls were plagued with the cats, people found them hard to operate, the chimneys had to draft optimally, the wood needed to be split more finely and the cats were (still are) expensive to replace typically every 2-5 seasons. I believe the F3CB (for clean burn) came out in 1996, it had the secondary burn chamber, and the others followed suit. Jotul was kinda slow to switch over, many other stove makers (the Pac Northwest crowd) had burn tubes for years instead of cats.  The Oslo was the big breakthrough, home run stove though. Sorry so long-winded.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi Joful, yes the f600 inner size was a little bigger, the upper framing and bypass damper assembly isn't in the F600, and the secondary tubes and manifold is sitting higher in the stove. The rear burnplate and catalytic chamber is gone too, giving a little more interior space. You are right though in that all the outer castings and many of the interiors are exactly the same. Outwardly. originally the F600 had the same hex bolt on the side door as the front double doors' locking bolt, then Jotul affixed a handle to the side door (to match the Oslo side door handle), a lot of people were tired of the hex handle necessity. Outwardly, its hard to tell the difference in the two stoves except no right foot pedal on the 12. I'm sure there is a number for the firebox for the F600, the Oslo firebox was 2.5 cuft, I believe I'm right to say around 3.0 for the F600, that could be checked on Jotul's website. Either way, no slight for the FL 12, that was a heckuva stove, and as you know, is still fully supported with parts available still because there is a lot of FL 12 owners like yourself out there.


 
Interesting history there stovelark. You mention the F500 at 2.5 cu ft and the F600 at ~3.0 cu ft. I don't have one handy to measure, but I thought the F500 is a bit more toward 2 cu ft actual usable firebox. Somewhere like 2.2 or 2.3 IIRC.


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## stovelark (Apr 28, 2013)

Hi BG, you know, I think you may be right, the Oslo may well be around 2 to 2.1, I say that because I know originially Jotul rated it up to 1800 sqft here in New England, and later changed it to 2000 sq ft. And the Firelight might be around 2.5, those numbers seem more correct, thanks for correcting that. I've been away from selling Jotuls for a couple of seasons, but looks like I might be back in with them soon. Take care.


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## stovelark (Apr 28, 2013)

Hey BG,    just got off of Jotul's website,  Oslo firebox is 2.54 cuft,  F600 Firelight is 2.97 cuft as listed.  Still like the Enviros, they have N/S loading vice Jotul's more E/W.  And I still like the steel stoves' ease of running, but ya gotta like the cast stoves and their enamel colors.....


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## Nick Mystic (Apr 28, 2013)

Jotul F500 (Oslo): 2.54 cf firebox: Jotul F600 (Firelight CB): 2.97 cf firebox


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## aansorge (Apr 29, 2013)

If cats only last 2 to 5 years, I can see why my uncle hasn't purchased a new one.  Any brands of cat last longer than the rest?  I just bought a Blaze King and have been reading that they typically last 7 years.  Why the big difference?


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## Ashful (Apr 29, 2013)

No difference, and most cat's last much longer than 5 years, if not abused or physically damaged. This is why they're typically warranted for 5 or 6 years, depending on manufacturer.

There is a certain amount of catalyst plated onto the substrate material, be it ceramic or stainless steel. That catalyst material is slowly used up in the reaction, and should be good for perhaps 10 - 20,000 hours of typical cord wood burning (depending on materials and design), under normal conditions.

Huge variations in operator procedures, wood species, amount the stove is run, etc. causes that to translate into a usable lifetime anywhere from a few years to a few decades. Unfortunately, like us, they're often killed before they can die a natural death. Ways to kill a cat are poisoning (burning painted or treated wood, or man-made glues or materials), flame impingement (causes cratering), or voilent temperature cycling (throwing wet wood into a firebox when the cat is at 1000F+), which causes fracturing. They can also be accidentally damaged during removal / re-installation for cleaning.

Most full-time burners assume a catalyst lifetime of 5 years, making your $200 catalyst (most are $150 - $250) cost you $40 per year. Now compare that to the $2k - $3k you're saving in oil, or even the several hundred dollars worth of wood you'll save due to the increased efficiency when using the cat, and it's really foolish to burn without the catalyst installed.

Perhaps more importantly, how does he avoid overheating the flue without a catalyst engaged?  Maybe he keeps the bypass damper closed, which is not something I've tried with the catalyst removed.  I do know that it's almost impossible to avoid overheating the flue with the bypass door open on a Firelight 12.


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## stovelark (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi Joful-   FYI, 2-5 years for Jotul cats was from Jotul seminar training (worst case scenarios typically) attended years ago-  I found that most people never replaced their cats or if they did, they would last typically 7-10 seasons. Corning (Condar cc maker, who Jotul used), their present warranty is up to 5 years, 1st year 100%, 2nd 60%, 3rd 50%, 4th 25%, 5th 10% that they will cover.  I think you're right, most folks will burn it with no cat and bypass closed, after the cat crumbles or plugs up.  I have a friend with a 12, they won't give it up, but never run it in cat mode.  It goes into a 20 foot class a chimney, runs very nicely too, I have to say. Just having the bypass closed and no cat I guess slows down the air flow enough to keep it controllable. Anyway, have a good one....


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## BKVP (Apr 29, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi Joful- FYI, 2-5 years for Jotul cats was from Jotul seminar training (worst case scenarios typically) attended years ago- I found that most people never replaced their cats or if they did, they would last typically 7-10 seasons. Corning (Condar cc maker, who Jotul used), their present warranty is up to 5 years, 1st year 100%, 2nd 60%, 3rd 50%, 4th 25%, 5th 10% that they will cover. I think you're right, most folks will burn it with no cat and bypass closed, after the cat crumbles or plugs up. I have a friend with a 12, they won't give it up, but never run it in cat mode. It goes into a 20 foot class a chimney, runs very nicely too, I have to say. Just having the bypass closed and no cat I guess slows down the air flow enough to keep it controllable. Anyway, have a good one....


 
All catalytic equipped wood stove manufacturers are held to a 3 year, 100% mandatory warranty for failure due to thermal degradation.  Attached you will find a pdf.  It is a copy of the Federal Register.  Keep in mind; the regulatory aspects to manufacturing solid fuel burning appliances are currently under review as the NSPS.  Forth coming will be new test methods, standards and a list of products that were formally excluded, that will now be included.  Also, by all indications, the new hang tags placed on wood stoves will have the appliances HHV% (Higher Heating Value) and no longer have defaults.  Any combustor warranty beyond 3 years is usually negotiated between the catalyst supplier and the stove manufacturer.  The combustor suppliers know which models is more or less bullet proof and are willing to back extended warranties.


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## stovelark (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi BKVP-  understand what you are saying.  Visiting Condar's website, thats where I got their warranty info.  I've dealt with mainly non-cat stove mfrs, so I'll defer on that..  I think corning makes most stove combustors, I know they make Condar combustors, which is what Jotul always used in their cat stoves in the 90's.....


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## BKVP (Apr 29, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi BKVP- understand what you are saying. Visiting Condar's website, thats where I got their warranty info. I've dealt with mainly non-cat stove mfrs, so I'll defer on that.. I think corning makes most stove combustors, I know they make Condar combustors, which is what Jotul always used in their cat stoves in the 90's.....


 
Corning sold out many, many years ago to Sud Chemie. Sud Chemie was just purchased by Clariant. The other major supplier is Applied Ceramics (www.firecatcombustors.com). I think you will find the awesome folks at Condar purchase from Applied and perhaps also Clariant.

By the way, on two occasions in the past 5 years I visited the Munich Germany headquarters for Sud Chemie (now owned by Clariant) and their facilities are spectacular. There is also a conveniently located hearth retailer just a few blocks away. In Germany, they refer to the combustor as a "filter". I saw some amazing units there last year and got some ideas. Of course there, there are many government programs (subsidized) to help consumers move away from non renewable fuels to renewable fuels.

Thank you,
Chris


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## stovelark (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi Chris      thanks for the info.


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## Ohlson35 (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi, am looking at a 12 today,this has a cat?..Is the 12 cb better..will this burn 10 hrs


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## Ashful (Nov 4, 2013)

Not sure what a 12 "CB" is.  The Firelight 12 is a catalytic stove.  I have two of them burning in my house.

_edit:  I'm doing some googling, and found a few references of a non-catalytic 12 CB, which was an interim model between the original 12 (catalytic) and the current 600 (non-cat).  Nothing official on it from Jotul, yet._


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## Ashful (Nov 4, 2013)

One potential issue I see with this F12 CB is obtaining parts.  Is it identical to a 600 CB?  Are there some different parts, made of un-obtanium?  Look at any stove parts site, and you'll see parts for the F12 catalytic and the F600 CB... no mention of an F12 CB.  What do you do when you need to replace a broken component... buy the F600 CB part, and hope it fits?


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## raybonz (Nov 4, 2013)

Ohlson35 said:


> Hi, am looking at a 12 today,this has a cat?..Is the 12 cb better..will this burn 10 hrs


I believe the 12CB is the non-cat secondary burn firelight.. Should be a good stove if in decent shape..

Ray


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## Ohlson35 (Nov 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> Not sure what a 12 "CB" is.  The Firelight 12 is a catalytic stove.  I have two of them burning in my house.
> 
> _edit:  I'm doing some googling, and found a few references of a non-catalytic 12 CB, which was an interim model between the original 12 (catalytic) and the current 600 (non-cat).  Nothing official on it from Jotul, yet._


I got the 12..beautiful shape...looks barely used.. looks out of show room shape! installed it last nite,slow to stat up,need to pay attention to mid size kindling.. in the  manual, says 33 k btu's..find that hard to fathom,I replaced an over used acclaim..which was supposed to hit 40k BTU.... what can I expect with dry wood for burn times?


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## Ohlson35 (Nov 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> Not sure what a 12 "CB" is.  The Firelight 12 is a catalytic stove.  I have two of them burning in my house.
> 
> _edit:  I'm doing some googling, and found a few references of a non-catalytic 12 CB, which was an interim model between the original 12 (catalytic) and the current 600 (non-cat).  Nothing official on it from Jotul, yet._


Thanks ,it is a 12,and a beauty..


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## Ashful (Nov 5, 2013)

Ohlson35 said:


> I got the 12..beautiful shape...looks barely used.. looks out of show room shape! installed it last nite,slow to stat up,need to pay attention to mid size kindling.. in the  manual, says 33 k btu's..find that hard to fathom,I replaced an over used acclaim..which was supposed to hit 40k BTU.... what can I expect with dry wood for burn times?


Congrat's!  You know the saying, "pics, or it didn't happen."

The BTU rating in my Jotul old manuals are not the actual BTU's the stove can produce on hardwood, but the EPA test BTU output, which is based on a fixed load of 2x4 lumber.  Most stove manufacturers put their rated BTU's on cordwood at roughly double this rating, and I see they rate the current Firelight at 85,000 BTU.  I would expect yours to be very close to the same.  The Firelight is a massive heater.


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## Ohlson35 (Nov 5, 2013)

Picture="Joful, post: 1565063, member: 22094"]Congrat's!  You know the saying, "pics, or it didn't happen."

The BTU rating in my Jotul old manuals are not the actual BTU's the stove can produce on hardwood, but the EPA test BTU output, which is based on a fixed load of 2x4 lumber.  Most stove manufacturers put their rated BTU's on cordwood at roughly double this rating, and I see they rate the current Firelight at 85,000 BTU.  I would expect yours to be very close to the same.  The Firelight is a massive heater.[/quote]
Pictu


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## Ashful (Nov 6, 2013)

She's a beaut!  Does it have a top-load door, or is the non-cat hardware in the way?  I'd be interested to see the right side, back, and inside, if you have the time.


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## MaggiesFarm (Nov 19, 2013)

Joful said:


> Several of us feel the way you do, and so I discussed this with Mark at Jotul, a tech who has been the company since they were still producing the Firelight 12. He agreed that it is one of the best stoves they ever made, but said that the reason for discontinuing actually had nothing to do with the design of the stove, and everything to do with getting the average consumer to run a catalytic stove without problems. Apparently, their number of service calls due to improper use or maintenance was much higher on this stove, than on any of their non-catalytic stoves. Also, there is an incorrect public perception that catalytic stoves are somehow troublesome or inferior to non-catalytic stoves, which I guess they found easier to join than fight. These were the reasons he gave me for Jotul getting out of the catalytic stove business.
> 
> Contrast that to those here, most of whom will admit that catalytic technology does build the superior heater, but the folks here at hearth.com are the exception. It's difficult to get the average consumer to even read the instruction manual.



Well, I'm one of those numbnuts that didn't read the instructions - properly.  I just found this forum after wondering about the longevity of my catalytic converter, when I realized that I've been running my woodburner incorrectly since I bought it in 1993.  The thing is I read the instructions, but having grown up with a wood burner, I must have thought I knew more than I actually did.  Somehow I was thinking that a damper must always be open!   I completely missed the point of the bypass damper and have been running the woodburner with the bypass open for 16 years.  I never closed it to redirect to the catalytic converter, and I run my burner 24/7 during the winter months.  I had to reread the instructions several times to convince myself that I was doing it wrong. I take pride in my woodburner, my logging and splitting, so it pains me to admit this.

So, when I got home today, I followed the instructions to the letter and, with the bypass damper now closed, the fire is burning away - not as hot as I would like, though. The front and top doors are shut as is the bypass damper (after I got the fire burning nice and hot), but now the fire is burning fairly slowly and not as hot as I would like, even with the air control in the full open position.  I'm wondering if I have to start from scratch and buy a new catalytic converter.  I haven't actually checked the catalytic converter yet and will have to wait a few days before I can shut down the burner to do it. Also, the rear plate is cracked and there is a significant gap - presumably from burning too hot?  

If anyone has advice or words of wisdom on where to get a new backplate inexpensively and a new catalytic converter, I'd appreciate it.    -  call me humbled!


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## Ashful (Nov 20, 2013)

Wow... 20 years!  Better late than never.

The rear burn plate (the small piece with the seashell pattern cast on it) is roughly $65, and can be had at your local Jotul dealer, or from http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/.  Yep... time to pull your cat, and see what's left of it!  Burning with the cat, you'll enjoy a clean chimney, and 12 hour burn times from that stove.  I'm not sure how hot you were burning it before, but I typically have it cruising with the stovetop between 350F - 450F.  It can also cruise a long time at 550F - 600F stovetop, but then expect burn times to be perhaps halved (I've not tried running this hot for more than a few hours, myself).

These old 12's can be a little tricky to get the cat lit off, and so it's very likely that's why you're seeing disappointing performance, with your first attempt.  Really, you need a catalytic probe thermometer to know what's going on, as well as a simple stove-top thermometer.  It's taken me two years to (just recently) get a system down to where I'm happy with getting fairly consistent light-offs.  You can read about it in the following thread, post 21 being where I finally joined the enlightened:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/achieving-lift-off-in-the-downdraft-cat.116507/

Dry wood is a huge factor, and something I'm still struggling with.  I'm burning mixed hardwoods (mostly Walnut and Ash), split and stacked last Thanksgiving, so 1 year seasoned.  That's much better than where I was last year, but the wood is still not dry enough to get easy and fast light-offs.  Most recommend 2 - 3 years, split and stacked.


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## MaggiesFarm (Dec 4, 2013)

Joful said:


> Wow... 20 years!  Better late than never.
> 
> The rear burn plate (the small piece with the seashell pattern cast on it) is roughly $65, and can be had at your local Jotul dealer, or from http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/.  Yep... time to pull your cat, and see what's left of it!  Burning with the cat, you'll enjoy a clean chimney, and 12 hour burn times from that stove.  I'm not sure how hot you were burning it before, but I typically have it cruising with the stovetop between 350F - 450F.  It can also cruise a long time at 550F - 600F stovetop, but then expect burn times to be perhaps halved (I've not tried running this hot for more than a few hours, myself).
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the advice.  Yes, 20 (I stand corrected) years is a long time.  I'm waiting until the holiday break to try to pull the rear plate and check the catalytic converter.  It seems to be running well again.  I have good dry oak and never let the stove go out.  With the bypass damper engaged, I have a much larger bed of coals in the morning to start things up again.  The ashes are definitely reduced.  I'll post again when I get a chance to shut the stove down and pull the rear plate.  But with 5 degree overnight temperatures in the forecast, I think I'll put it off awhile


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## MaggiesFarm (Dec 10, 2013)

Joful said:


> Wow... 20 years!  Better late than never.
> 
> The rear burn plate (the small piece with the seashell pattern cast on it) is roughly $65, and can be had at your local Jotul dealer, or from http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/.  Yep... time to pull your cat, and see what's left of it!  Burning with the cat, you'll enjoy a clean chimney, and 12 hour burn times from that stove.  I'm not sure how hot you were burning it before, but I typically have it cruising with the stovetop between 350F - 450F.  It can also cruise a long time at 550F - 600F stovetop, but then expect burn times to be perhaps halved (I've not tried running this hot for more than a few hours, myself).
> 
> ...



Hi again- Well, I still haven't opened the back plate up - waiting for a warm up and holiday break - but the other night I had my first case of what I now know is back-puffing.  The fire alarm went off in the middle of the night.  So we opened the bypass damper and let it go for the night.  Today I went out and bought a stove-top thermometer and starting reading through the different conversations and threads.  The fire usually never goes out and I almost always have a good bed of coals.  I burn large splits and fill up the burner at night before going to bed.  Usually I throw in something like ash or cottonwood at the bottom and fill the rest up with good, dry oak.  For the last week, I've been filling, then waiting for a nice full flame, then shutting down the bypass damper and the air control (not incrementally).  Perhaps this was the cause of my most recent problem.  

But now I am armed with a stove top thermometer.  The manual says that I need to have the temp between 500 and 700 degrees for the cat to light off.  I'm assuming they mean the temperature of the catalytic converter itself.  Does this translate to 350-450 degrees on the stovetop thermometer?  

Also, the threads I've read seem to indicate that you can actually tell when the catalytic converter has lit off.  Is this something you can tell visually?  If it's behind the back plate, how would you know?  Or is this a function of the thermometer that goes into the catalytic converter itself (which I don't yet have)?  

Thanks again for all your enlightening conversations!  Maggie


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## Ashful (Dec 10, 2013)

Hi Maggie,

Glad to hear you're using the cat.  If it's still functional, it should vastly improve your burn times, and keep your chimney clean.

Those who talk about visually seeing the cat light off most often have stoves where the cat is mounted at the top of the firebox, and can be seen thru the top of the glass doors.  There are even a few (Vermont Castings 2-in-1, for example), where the cat is in the back, but the glow can still be seen thru the front doors.  Unfortunately, as you already noted, ours is hidden behind the firebox, completely out of view.  There is a probe hole in the back of the Firelight 12, usually plugged with a small screw.  If you remove this screw, you can insert a catalytic probe thermometer thru the hole, and monitor your cat temps this way, which is how I have mine rigged.  I use an electronic probe, so I can set the meter on the floor next to the stove and read it easily, rather than crawling behind the stove to read a mechanical thermometer.

As far as stove-top temps prior to light-off, I find that mine usually light off when I get the stove top to 550F, before closing the bypass damper.  The wood I'm burning came down in Hurricane Sandy, and was split and stacked Thanksgiving 2012, so it's only 1 year seasoned.  Because of this, the cat temp usually only goes up to 550 - 650F when I close the bypass damper, and the cat temps will fall below ignition if I start to close down the air control with it in this state.  So, I actually continue to burn with air 1/2 or full open for a good 15 minutes after closing the bypass damper, until my catalytic probe temperatures reach 1000+.  Once the cat takes off like that, then I find I can close air 100%, and the catalytic probe thermometer stays in the 1200 - 1500F region for many hours.  This means I can slowly smoulder a load of wood all day, with stove top temps around 350F, but with the cat above 1000F my chimney stays clean and I waste little heat.

Coming around to your back-puffing, I find this happens under a few conditions:

1.  Weak draft.  I have two Firelight 12's, and the one on 15 feet of chimney will backpuff any time I shut the air control to 0%.  I must keep it open about 5% to 10% at all times.  Th stove with 27 feet of chimney never back puffs at outside temps below 50F.
2.  Getting a load going too vigorously, and cutting back the air too quickly.  That burning mass of wood has momentum, and if you cut off the air with it going strong, it's quickly gobbling up the oxygen quicker than make-up air can provide it.  Flame stalls, but stove is super-heated.  As soon as enough air leaks back in thru your closed air control to provide the adequate amount of oxygen for ignition, boom... backpuff.  Cut the air back by half each time (full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, closed), and you should avoid backpuffing on a stove with adequate chimney.
3.  Closing the air control before the cat is lit off.  Basically, shutting down before the cat is lit off seems to cause draft stall, whether it's just from a too-cool chimney or a plugged cat.  Weak draft, like item 1 above, means the stove is not drawing make-up air in thru the draft control quickly enough.

What surprises me is that you're able to burn this stove with the bypass open.  I find my chimney temps really go high, if I leave the bypass open on a full load, even with air control shut all the way.


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## MaggiesFarm (Dec 10, 2013)

Joful said:


> Hi Maggie,
> 
> Glad to hear you're using the cat.  If it's still functional, it should vastly improve your burn times, and keep your chimney clean.
> 
> ...



Thanks again for your very helpful reply.  I suspect that when the fire alarm went off, I either didn't get light off and/or I shut down the air control too quickly.  The only part of the chimney that is visible is the horizontal part coming right off the back of the stove.  It takes a bend up behind the brick work, so the vertical pipe is not accessible until it comes out the roof about 4-5 feet up.  Then the chimney rises up another 9 feet or so.  When I originally installed it, I had to add another length of pipe because the draft was indeed inadequate.  That's because the roof slopes steeply upward and the peak is actually higher than then chimney top.  Perhaps it didn't get too hot because the pipe is fully exposed to the elements.  Right now the "elements" are about 0 degrees F!  I live up in Wisconsin.  

But, on the other hand, it's also likely that at least the firebox got too hot because the back plate is cracked.  Guaging from the new thermometer and how the fire is burning, I'm guessing that I was running it at about 700 degrees stovetop temperature when I was home on a regular basis.  At night and while I'm at work, I damped down the air control and used very large splits of wood.  After about 8-10 hours, I would still have a good bed of coals.  

Seems so strange that after 20 years I am now only just learning to use the stove properly.  As finances allow, I'll be investing in a new catalytic converter, backplate and cat. thermometer.  But for now the stovetop thermometer will have to do.  I'll be more careful about cutting back the air more incrementally.  Thanks again for all your input!


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## jotul joe (Aug 13, 2014)

does any one know if you can season the back plate  prior to burning in oven maybe helping it season might  last a little longer  ive bought 3 of these  and they cost 117.00  shipped now  not cheap  . they warp and crack if over heated  very easy .  I just ordered all new internal parts and new inner back plate , chamber and  also the outer cast cover  that im referring to .  my stove is a 1995   and ive had it all this time burning green wood and all  it was time for a overhaul .  1,097.00 in parts  the chamber is $435  alone  then $ 200  for  a steel cat    these prices are costly  but I still don't want a new stove  this is like a old friend now to me


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## NHcpa (Aug 13, 2014)

jotul joe said:


> View attachment 136504
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a rip roaring flame!  I have replaced 2 back plates since 1998.  I think I get into trouble with the back plate is when I open the ash pan door to push more air through at start up...and sometimes I forget to close it early enough.  I prop replaced 3 cats, orig lasted several years but then fried it with not so dry wood (wet) actually.  I did experimate with the Cleanskies? - looks like a brillow pad, seems to work well. all said, I very much like and enjoy the stove.


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2014)

Using the ash pan to start the stove violates the warranty and risks cracking the base or grate. The manual explicitly says don't do this. This is a costly repair and unnecessary.


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## NHcpa (Aug 13, 2014)

begreen said:


> Using the ash pan to start the stove violates the warranty and risks cracking the base or grate. The manual explicitly says don't do this. This is a costly repair and unnecessary.
> 
> View attachment 136506
> View attachment 136507


I wasn't giving advice, but thanks for the clarity.


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## jotul joe (Aug 13, 2014)

my stove  never cracked  but  it destryed the back plate the inner back plate the grate  lol look at these that came out  however the stove shell inner and out is invery good cond. so
   by putting  new chamber , new steel cat ,, new inner back plate, and access cover and bolt ,  chamber cat cover , and bottom for chamber.,  new gaskets.  It will be like new  .  the side plates  and the whole shell is remarkably clean   ! Its in great shape   in fact this is the original cat in my hand and those are not cracks, the  cat  actually looks in very nice shape ,however i bought a steel one  anyway to put in new chamber .  Ihat was  full time use 19 years of burning  6 months out of the year daily of  somewhat green wood semi dry !.  Does  anyone have  instruction of what to gasket   im not sure?
1. i know  gasket around the back of stove
2, under lid
3  under top cover  ( does it only get 3 sides and none on back or complete 360  loop  of  1/4 gasket ?
  4 damper   lover 1/4 gasket    but ( do i gasket the whole flange also  even though theres a gasket  where that meets back of stove already ?)
5 on the inner  back plate  itself does this get a gasket    when theres one on the back of stove already ?
  im kinda confused of the exact placment of gaskets  due to  when  it came apart  the seemed to fall off  and so cant tell the lay out .  can anyone give a detail on  where gaskets should go on each piece ???   would be very cool . I mean  we will double gasket things if need be  but  sure would be nice to know its done per spec .   Noooo  more abuse to the stove !  Im getting a therm. so ill know temps and noooo more open ash door  for lighting   19  years of that lol   look at the grate looks like  a bridge  and the inner back plate had a 4  inch buldge as you can see 
  My  damper has a slight warp but still able to go back on  it might need thicker gasket to  seal up the gap  better  .   VERY THANKFUL FOR THIS FORUM.   I didnt know these could be saved i was ready  to  scrap it untill i saw prices on new   and how cheap the material has become .     this forum has great info on it .  Though id like to learn how to operate the stove properly with knowing what temp to close damper  . i obviously ran it as to meet my need for heat over the proper proceedures


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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2014)

Jotul spec's 1/4" braided gasket for everything but the door glass, which is 3/16" braided gasket.  Note that's braided, not woven.

The way you're ripping thru rear burn plates, and seeing your lower grate, you're really overfiring that stove.  My 1993 stove had a small, almost invisible hairline crack in the back plate in 2011.  I replaced it and have put at least 10 cords thru it since, with the rear burn plate still looking like the day it was installed.  All of my grates are still as flat as the day they were made, and I'm putting a LOT of wood thru these stoves.  There is no reason to have this damage, if you are using the stove properly.

One issue with this stove is that it can really take off in bypass mode.  I find it only takes maybe 8 minutes with a full load of fresh fuel on coals in the morning, for the stovetop to reach 500F.  In fact, sometimes I see external stove pipe temps hit 600F within 4 - 5 minutes, so I'm dialing back the air before I even engage the cat.  The back plate damage is from burning with air open too far, or staying in bypass too long.

I've never seen a stove grate warped that badly, on a stove that's still functional.  Have you checked all the seams between castings?


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## jotul joe (Aug 13, 2014)

Joful said:


> Jotul spec's 1/4" braided gasket for everything but the door glass, which is 3/16" braided gasket.  Note that's braided, not woven.
> 
> The way you're ripping thru rear burn plates, and seeing your lower grate, you're really overfiring that stove.  My 1993 stove had a small, almost invisible hairline crack in the back plate in 2011.  I replaced it and have put at least 10 cords thru it since, with the rear burn plate still looking like the day it was installed.  All of my grates are still as flat as the day they were made, and I'm putting a LOT of wood thru these stoves.  There is no reason to have this damage, if you are using the stove properly.
> 
> ...





  Yes  , i know    ive been using it for 19 years  amazingly no cracks anywhere  went through with fine tooth comb    vacumed it out  then   all is good  cept these parts i ordered
1 . 04-128454  chamber   $435,70
2. 04-128455  cat cover    $71.00
3. 04-128456  bottom        $ 62.00
4. 103329  grate                $64.00
5.103329 inner back plate  $138 .19
6.  back plate cover            $117 53  shipped
7. acess  bolt                      $ 2.44
8. codar steel cat cs552     $ 112.99  shipped
9. shipping cost on other items noted  $30.00
10. gasket material not purchased as of yet

     So a total of about 1,100 .00     after  19 years of hard service   Not bad !
   I know what your saying about running it way to hot  this is true  . I intend on using it more to the standard   normal  use  knowing all this now .
   So what is the temp you dont want to exceed ?  if i put a magnet therm on lower stove pipe near the stove  so i wont  burn to hot ?  i understand now that i was not  suposed to have ash door open for  so long  or used for air drafting .   What temp  should the damper be closed at  too  ? To start the use of cat  ?
                              and is woven much different than braided for use ??
                                                                            thanks   for suggestions   im looking for  locations for new gaskets as the old basicly fell off leaving not much of a trace  i did read a thread  showing pics of peoples gasket jobs but some looked like the gasketed double    like , on the  back of stove  and then on back of inner back plate as well  seems double to me ? as in post # 29 betrice    i cant tell what he is gasketing the back of plate when thers already a gasket in his first photo  thats there, that would appear to be doble gaskets   https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-chamber-from-jotul-firelight-12.99769/page-2


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## MaggiesFarm (Aug 14, 2014)

Hi all - You're email reminded me that I have yet another thing to add to the chore list.  I cleaned out the chimney earlier this summer after skipping it last year.  It was very clean, nonetheless.  But before school starts (I'm a teacher), I better get going on inspecting the stove, replacing the worn gasket, buying a new backplate, catalytic converter and whatever else is needed.  I, too, am interested in knowing whether there are any recommendations on breaking in the new parts to add to their longevity.  So today I first add more roosts to the chicken coop to accomodate the new chicks hatched this spring, then I'll dismantle the stove and take a peek.  I'll be checking in for your helpful support and guidance.

Do you still recommend the firecatcombuster.com site for purchasing a new catalytic converter?  If so, would you be able to provide a link to the actual model that you recommend?  And where is the best place to purchase the back plate? I'm low income, but I don't want to buy cheap materials that I'll end up paying for later.  I love your willingness to be so helpful.  Many thanks.  Maggie


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## MaggiesFarm (Aug 15, 2014)

jotul joe said:


> Yes  , i know    ive been using it for 19 years  amazingly no cracks anywhere  went through with fine tooth comb    vacumed it out  then   all is good  cept these parts i ordered
> 1 . 04-128454  chamber   $435,70
> 2. 04-128455  cat cover    $71.00
> 3. 04-128456  bottom        $ 62.00
> ...


Hi - I'm wondering where you bought the steel cat cs 552.  The lowest price I've seen is $199 without shipping.  Also, could you tell me more about the 04-128455 cat cover.  I'm having trouble reading the parts diagram and wonder if that's the soft foam-ish thing at the bottom of the inner back plate.


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

I'll post part numbers and prices tonight, but I bought all of these components once thru a local Jotul dealer, and then the cover and lower piece for the second stove from woodmanspartsplus.com.  The cover is about $65, as is the lower filler piece.  They're both made of a soft refractory insulation material.


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## MaggiesFarm (Aug 15, 2014)

Joful said:


> I'll post part numbers and prices tonight, but I bought all of these components once thru a local Jotul dealer, and then the cover and lower piece for the second stove from woodmanspartsplus.com.  The cover is about $65, as is the lower filler piece.  They're both made of a soft refractory insulation material.




Thanks!  I found the rear plate at Stove World for $119.85 at StoveWorld.com.  I'm including a picture of the catalytic converter.  I know I ran the burner without the bypass for 20 years and only this winter started using the bypass.  To me, the cat looks good - no cracks & feels solid.  Wondering whether you think it needs replacing.





Other things I found that were wrong, and I'm wondering whether it is urgent to replace these, or if can wait until next year.

Crack on the inner burn plate(103329) 
	

		
			
		

		
	




Catalyst chamber cover (04-128455) is cracked, but not broken

Catalyst chamber bottom  (04-128456) is broken in half but could feasibly be put back in place.



Lastly, how do you recommend I get the screw that holds the rear plate out?  It's stuck pretty solid.

Again, many thanks, Maggie


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## NHcpa (Aug 15, 2014)

MaggiesFarm said:


> Thanks!  I found the rear plate at Stove World for $119.85 at StoveWorld.com.  I'm including a picture of the catalytic converter.  I know I ran the burner without the bypass for 20 years and only this winter started using the bypass.  To me, the cat looks good - no cracks & feels solid.  Wondering whether you think it needs replacing.
> 
> View attachment 136600
> 
> ...


If your talking of the bolt to the rear plate that covers the cat...your giving me memories...  Mine too was stuck.  Tried using a propane blow torch but ended up shearing the head off.  I took the rear back plate out and then took it down to my local auto mechanic who got the threaded bolt out (relatively easy),


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

Soak with favorite penetrating oil, then remove with your favorite impact driver.  Don't try to muscle it, lest you break it.  That's the beauty of impact wrenches.


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## MaggiesFarm (Aug 15, 2014)

Joful said:


> Soak with favorite penetrating oil, then remove with your favorite impact driver.  Don't try to muscle it, lest you break it.  That's the beauty of impact wrenches.


Already soaking.  Have to visit my favorite neighbor for the impact wrench.  Think I'll need it to take my mower blades off, too!

Any views on the other parts.  Replace? or keep 'em?


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2014)

Sorry, Maggie.  Caught me at a very busy time.  Will try to read your full post and respond this weekend .


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## MaggiesFarm (Aug 15, 2014)

Thanks.  Take your time.


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## Woody Stover (Aug 15, 2014)

MaggiesFarm said:


> interested in knowing whether there are any recommendations on breaking in the new parts to add to their longevity.


http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/f4863/a2777/Grates/Seasoning-Your-Cast-Iron-Stove-Part.html


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## jotul joe (Aug 16, 2014)

adkhunter said:


> Hi all...new here and was looking to hear what ya'll think about the Jotul Firelight Model 12 wood stoves. My parents bought a house that has a big 3 car detached garage that they have no use for so me and my fiance are turning it into a 3 bedroom house for us and our 5 yr old and baby thats on the way and due febuary. It will be 2 floor and about 1900 sq ft once completed (about 3 months from now...starting construction tomorrow) We plan on heating primarily with a wood stove and my parents house came with this white Jotul thats in great shape and they have offered for us to have it because my mother wants a black colored stove instead of white. I personally dont prefer white either but hey its FREE haha! Figured I could always get around to painting it black later down the road. I have grown up around wood stoves but have no prior experience with a Jotul. Was hoping someone on here could fill me in on opinions of this stove and maybe known problems or advice on keeping it in good operating condition. Thanks for any insight anyone might have!
> 
> View attachment 100612
> View attachment 100613



   You could always  add contrast  with some black cast options   like doors   and black side warmers





adkhunter said:


> Hi all...new here and was looking to hear what ya'll think about the Jotul Firelight Model 12 wood stoves. My parents bought a house that has a big 3 car detached garage that they have no use for so me and my fiance are turning it into a 3 bedroom house for us and our 5 yr old and baby thats on the way and due febuary. It will be 2 floor and about 1900 sq ft once completed (about 3 months from now...starting construction tomorrow) We plan on heating primarily with a wood stove and my parents house came with this white Jotul thats in great shape and they have offered for us to have it because my mother wants a black colored stove instead of white. I personally dont prefer white either but hey its FREE haha! Figured I could always get around to painting it black later down the road. I have grown up around wood stoves but have no prior experience with a Jotul. Was hoping someone on here could fill me in on opinions of this stove and maybe known problems or advice on keeping it in good operating condition. Thanks for any insight anyone might have!
> 
> View attachment 100612
> View attachment 100613


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## jotul joe (Aug 16, 2014)

Woody Stover said:


> http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/f4863/a2777/Grates/Seasoning-Your-Cast-Iron-Stove-Part.html



  thanks  for  good info


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## Georgeviking (Dec 25, 2014)

Arrest me,,, I am sitting in front of my fire light ......bought it for 80 bucks back plate was burned out no cat ,damper was toast and frame was missing the bottom with one broken glass.....I bought a damper repaired the frame by welding steel to bottom
And said screw the catalyst. Stove works great love the look it looks so much better than a single door..I have no cat or chamber threw some cement on back holes....burning green wood but really need seasoned ...enjoy.


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## Ashful (Dec 25, 2014)

Georgeviking said:


> Arrest me,,, I am sitting in front of my fire light ......bought it for 80 bucks back plate was burned out no cat ,damper was toast and frame was missing the bottom with one broken glass.....I bought a damper repaired the frame by welding steel to bottom
> And said screw the catalyst. Stove works great love the look it looks so much better than a single door..I have no cat or chamber threw some cement on back holes....burning green wood but really need seasoned ...enjoy.


Hmm... must be having some troubles, to be searching out and digging up such old threads on Firelight 12's!


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## begreen (Dec 25, 2014)

Sounds like the stove is being ridden into its sunset.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 25, 2014)

You got taken. I would have paid $100 to get the thing out of my house.


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## raybonz (Dec 28, 2014)

Georgeviking said:


> Arrest me,,, I am sitting in front of my fire light ......bought it for 80 bucks back plate was burned out no cat ,damper was toast and frame was missing the bottom with one broken glass.....I bought a damper repaired the frame by welding steel to bottom
> And said screw the catalyst. Stove works great love the look it looks so much better than a single door..I have no cat or chamber threw some cement on back holes....burning green wood but really need seasoned ...enjoy.


Glad you don't live next door to me with all that pollution billowing out your chimney.. This sort of wood burning gives wood burners a black eye in my opinion..


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## Ashful (Dec 28, 2014)

There has been a cloud of smoke hanging over my neighborhood a few days this week.  No doubt, some neighboring weekend burner putting green wood thru their stove.  Only trouble is, everyone around here knows I heat with wood, so there are probably many assuming it's me.  Very frustrating, as my chimneys emit zero smoke, excepting ten minutes for reload three times per day.


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## Georgeviking (Jan 15, 2015)

Digging up old threads??? Sorry joful welcome to the Internet didn't notice age of post funny how we can search stuff eh?
Was burning green wood first few fires to make sure stove and install all went well. Once I got my seasoned wood noticed big difference in smoke, burning stove at top surface temp of 400. Only smokes on start up reloads and when I was choking too much otherwise it seems to burn very clean This is a well made stove and if not abused is it wrong to think it can last forty to fifty years??


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## Ashful (Jan 15, 2015)

Hey George,

I've been battling seasoned wood issues myself, the last three years.  It takes a good three years to get oak down to proper moisture content, and I seem to be getting a lot of oak to process every year.  Every time I get on track to actually getting three years ahead, something like last winter happens, which sets me back a half year in my processing.  I'm burning oak and ash that's split and stacked 18 months (2 summers + 1 winter) right now, and while the ash burns great, the oak is a little bit of a struggle.

I keep a thermometer on my stovetop, for the purpose of making sure I don't overheat the stove (eg. 700+), but have completely gotten away from using it to "drive" the stove.  Here's my basic process for reloads (which is all I'm doing this time of year):

1.  When prior load burns down to < 400F, open air.  When stove can no longer maintain 400F with air full open, it's time to reload.
2.  Open bypass damper and reload stove, and set timer for 8 - 15 minutes, depending on size of load, size of coal bed, species, etc.
3.  When stovepipe thermometer (magnetic mounted to outside of single wall pipe about 18" above stove) hits 550F, close bypass damper.  Set timer for 5 minutes.
4.  When timer goes off, verify catalytic probe thermometer > 550F.  Lower air to half, and set timer for another 5 minutes.
5.  When timer goes off, verify catalytic probe thermometer > 800F.  Lower air to quarter, and set timer for another 5 minutes.
6.  When timer goes off, verify catalytic probe thermometer > 1000F.  Close air, and set timer for 5 - 10 minutes.
7.  When timer goes off, verify cat did not stall out.  Catalytic probe temp usually cruises around 1400F.

If probe temp is low at any of those timer intervals, I just delay lowering air by another five minutes, while watching stovetop temp to ensure I do not overfire stove.

Hope this helps!


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## Georgeviking (Jan 16, 2015)

Yes of course it helps lol this s my first good wood stove. I'm used to the fireplace we had in my parents house ( bit of a difference )
I will get mine a bit hotter now. My old man loved to burn oak so that's what I've been seeking out had no idea could take three years to fully season, I have always split wood by hand, think I might get two cords now and let it sit. the stuff I split will be for2018 lol
The oak I'm burning now is white oak and a year and a half seasoned white seams to dry a but quicker then red as I split a piece of red today that was stacked just about a year and still smells wet..I also have a bit of a short chimney plan to add a section to try and increase draft.


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## Ashful (Jan 16, 2015)

Get your hands on as much ash and maple as you can, for the first few years.  It will dry 3x faster than oak of any variety.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 17, 2015)

I agree, oak is not the wood you want to gather if you're just starting out burning. Whatever oak you have stack it and forget it.


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## Georgeviking (Jan 22, 2015)

Back from vacation, going to have to learn wood a bit more. Can tell the easy ones,red oak white oak, don't touch pine,etc
Almost done with old wood, already moved my oak stash to one area only have about a cord with a bit more than that to split.
One of the guys selling wood local boosts how mixed and seasoned his wood is I know he has been selling for years and he's about 15
Bucks higher than others, going to get a cord from him. My better half won't touch the stove and we have it in our closed in porch
So I'm running it only four days a week and 12-14 hours each day. Not burning nearly as much as some of you guys.still heats the house. Part time. I can see a log splitter in my future, getting to old to keep slinging the sledge and wedges,lol will always split some that way.


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## Ashful (Jan 22, 2015)

Hi George,

That "don't touch pine," thought is an oft-discussed topic here.  Yes, pine is sappy, but truth is you can burn it completely safely in an EPA wood stove.  The only catch is it must be dry, and thankfully, pine dries very fast after splitting and stacking.

You are correct, in the years of open fireplaces and old-skool wood stoves, burning pine was not recommended.  However, your secondary burn system, if operating properly will incinerate all the pine pitch that used to cause folks running older wood stoves and open fireplaces so much trouble.

Most of our Pacific Northwest members are heating almost exclusively with conifers, and aren't reporting any special troubles with it.


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