# Struck Magnatrac (or other crawler/dozer type vehicles): Opinions?



## ElmBurner (Mar 8, 2016)

The land where my timber lies is generally fairly steep, with many gullies and an elevation change of roughly 40 ft in about 300-400 ft of run.  Up until recently, I figured the only way I was getting wood out of the interior of this area was by cutting/splitting/stacking it where it was felled, then pulling it out piecemeal in a sled or wagon.

I was looking at the back of a magazine last night and saw that there is a company called Struck in Wisconsin that makes a mini-dozer/crawler in the 600-800 lbs range that supposedly can pull 1000 lbs.  Sounds like a perfect way to skid logs in a muddy/steep area without tearing up the ground or getting stuck.

From what I have read on the internet, they've been around for quite a while and seem to have a somewhat mixed reputation.  The heavy equipment guys consider it a toy and advocate for a 4WD tractor or a real crawler/bulldozer.  The DIY/lawn tractor guys consider it to be pretty amazing and something that is easily maintained and can do a lot of work.

Considering my situation (a guy working on his own with about 5 acres of hilly timber), I am leaning more towards thinking this would be a useful addition for me, as well as letting me do things like maintaining my gravel drive, pushing snow in the winter, possibly some very light field work in a hay field. 

Anyone have any personal experience with this sort of equipment?  Am I on the right track here?


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

Never heard of them before. Looks like a tracked lawn tractor. 

Interestingly, they sell a flatpack bulldozer kit. I am envisioning a team of fifty unhappy, herniated UPS men barely managing to push it off the truck at the end of your driveway, and you popping down there with a screwdriver and assembling it and driving it up to your house. =D

I found some pictures of the thing in the reviews section of their site.

(Sorry for the unhelpful post; I was just amused by the whole concept of the assemble-it-yourself bulldozer kit.)


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## greg13 (Mar 8, 2016)

With any tracked equipment make sure you have a cleated track. A smooth track machine (I don't care how big) WILL slide downhill in mud, You might as well be on ice.


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## SCOTT S. (Mar 8, 2016)

Buddy just bought one for $350 bought it from a guy who's grandpa passed and was cleaning out the shed. Cleaned the carb and she's a runner. It's small but I watched him cut through a hard 3 foot snow pile like butter. Neat little machine.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 9, 2016)

ElmBurner said:


> a mini-dozer/crawler in the 600-800 lbs range that supposedly can pull 1000 lbs.



I have zero experience with such vehicles, but it seems like this claim could easily be misinterpreted. If they mean it can pull a trailer with a gross weight of 1000# over level ground, then it'll pull substantially less on a slope or if you're skidding instead of using wheels.  What is the top speed, under load?  If your goal is to avoid having to split the wood before moving it, will you be able to move large enough pieces fast enough to be worth it?


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## Boiler74 (Mar 9, 2016)

Look at the Portable Winch company. These capstan winches work well and will haul logs up a slope. They aren't cheap but I have one and am happy with it. Combine it with a couple double sheave snatch blocks and you can pull 8,000 lbs.


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## ElmBurner (Mar 9, 2016)

greg13 said:


> With any tracked equipment make sure you have a cleated track. A smooth track machine (I don't care how big) WILL slide downhill in mud, You might as well be on ice.


It comes with either rubber or grouser tracks.



			
				SCOTT S. said:
			
		

> It's small but I watched him cut through a hard 3 foot snow pile like butter. Neat little machine.


Yeah, that kind of goes along with what I've read about them.


			
				John1270 said:
			
		

> What is the top speed, under load? If your goal is to avoid having to split the wood before moving it, will you be able to move large enough pieces fast enough to be worth it?


Per the spec sheet, the top speed is 3 mph and the "gear reduction" is around 50:1 or so.  I think the limit is engine power, not traction.  When you are skidding logs, I would guess the friction of the log on the ground is going to out-weigh the effects of gravity, so the slope wouldn't seem to matter much.



			
				Boiler74 said:
			
		

> Look at the Portable Winch company. These capstan winches work well and will haul logs up a slope. They aren't cheap but I have one and am happy with it. Combine it with a couple double sheave snatch blocks and you can pull 8,000 lbs.


I've considered that, but it's an expensive one-trick pony.  Getting a mini-dozer allows me to do other things around my place.  Push snow, maintain the gravel drive, etc.


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## jetsam (Mar 9, 2016)

ElmBurner said:


> I've considered that, but it's an expensive one-trick pony.  Getting a mini-dozer allows me to do other things around my place.  Push snow, maintain the gravel drive, etc.



If I wanted to grade gravel, haul timber, and push snow, I'd be looking for a medium farm tractor. Widely available used, plenty of grunt for all those tasks.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 9, 2016)

jetsam said:


> If I wanted to grade gravel, haul timber, and push snow, I'd be looking for a medium farm tractor. Widely available used, plenty of grunt for all those tasks.



I agree. Even a small farm model can do lots of various tasks for someone with a large wooded yard or land or even someone with a hobby farm, etc.

However they are expensive I was looking at prices online and wow they are not cheap.


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## jetsam (Mar 9, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I agree. Even a small farm model can do lots of various tasks for someone with a large wooded yard or land or even someone with a hobby farm, etc.
> 
> However they are expensive I was looking at prices online and wow they are not cheap.



New farm equipment is for people who make their living off of it.

Buy a used Deere and take care of it, and it'll last until you're too old to climb up on it.

Be wary about buying one from a farmer; they are not usually rich people, and they are usually pretty fair mechanics who don't sell good tractors for no reason.  Shoot for an estate auction, bankruptcy auction, or a person who had no business owning a tractor in the first place. . Farm auctions are good but all the neighbors are going to be there, so don't expect rock bittom prices.

You could also get lucky and find one that is in good shape and just got upgraded.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 9, 2016)

jetsam said:


> New farm equipment is for people who make their living off of it.
> 
> Buy a used Deere and take care of it, and it'll last until you're too old to climb up on it.
> 
> ...



What I'm thinking of perhaps is more of a compact tractor ?

There's a Kubota dealer not too far and he has these small tractors but they are far too small for a farmer who makes a living farming. They look more useful to a land owner or hobby farm type of user. According to the website an example I'm thinking of would be Kubotas B2301. I guess it's 23 hp and pictures show it with a front loader on it. It's got big rear wheels for traction and pulling I guess

Something like that looks useful for a small land owner or hobby farm. Not a income producing farm too small for that.

But the thing is they are coming up like $13k for used ??

My buddy bought a New Holland skid steer with a grapple for his tree service business. He uses it for dragging piles of brush and heavy logs out of yards and stuff I can't believe how much easier it is than dragging brush by hand. I've used it when I work for him here and there and it's fun to operate!

If you had a spare $50k laying around burning a hole in you pocket that would be the way to go !

Back to reality anyways I'd be happy with one of those small Kubota tractors but I'm not spending that kind of money. Too spendy for my tastes. But I just think of the stuff I could do in addition to haul logs . I could grade my gravel driveway every year . Also be good when I get mulch delivered for spreading across the various landscape areas , etc. just looks useful to me


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## peakbagger (Mar 9, 2016)

How about one of these http://www.maystrailequipment.com/images/iron_horse/ih_folder.pdf

I have lot of concern for any ride on equipment on hilly steep areas. There are numerous deaths and serious industries from loggers in my region that roll the equipment over when getting sidewards on the slopes. Unless there is monster roll cage they usually get pinned or worse.

When I looked at my wants I picked up one of these. 40 hours on the engine and chassis. 18K and will eat a Kubota for lunch. It has a Case 580 backhoe in the back. It has full roll bar and roof protection. Ugly as heck


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## Boiler74 (Mar 9, 2016)

ElmBurner said:


> I've considered that, but it's an expensive one-trick pony.  Getting a mini-dozer allows me to do other things around my place.  Push snow, maintain the gravel drive, etc.



I understand that sentiment.  I thought about the purchase a lot.  Already have a tractor.  But what if I wanted that nice oak log that was too far to get to or pull in a straight line?  I can make multiple pulls with the portable winch and get a log out of an area I would have to bushwhack to with my chainsaw to get to otherwise.  It allows me to get out of the line of pull, which I like.  And it's useful for lots of other jobs.  Pull something onto my trailer, take with me in the truck when it snows in case I get stuck, I've pulled over small trees with it (root ball and all), get my tractor unstuck on a slimy hill.  Yes, I could put electric winches on each of these things, but I like one tool for many jobs.  I'm not saying it beats equipment..... wouldn't trade it for my tractor at all.  But it has more than one use for sure.

J.


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## jetsam (Mar 9, 2016)

There's that grey area between lawn tractor and tractor too.

https://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/5483293797.html

Or you could get a larger machine as a fixer upper if you swing that way.

https://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/5441829242.html

Are you anywhere near Bloomfield? I think this one might be stolen 

https://desmoines.craigslist.org/grd/5458217311.html


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## firefighterjake (Mar 9, 2016)

Top speed is 3 mph? I think I would quickly get frustrated with the slow pace.


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## ElmBurner (Mar 10, 2016)

jetsam said:


> If I wanted to grade gravel, haul timber, and push snow, I'd be looking for a medium farm tractor. Widely available used, plenty of grunt for all those tasks.


The problem is I am way past trying to do things with a garden rake, a snow blower and a pick-up truck and not nearly big enough to require a John Deere with all the associated maintenance/implement costs.  I'm trying to split the difference with a budget of around $3-4k.

Even if I look at the compact utility tractors from John Deere, I just can't justify it.  I will probably  use the thing for 50-100 hours per year and it costs the same as a decent used car.  No way that makes sense, financially.



firefighterjake said:


> Top speed is 3 mph? I think I would quickly get frustrated with the slow pace.


When your land is about 15 acres (roughly 1000 ft x 700 ft), 3 mph gets you anywhere in 5 minutes or less.  Same as walking.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 10, 2016)

What about a toro dingo.

It's tracked and you stand on the back of it. Easy enough to jump off if it did get sideways. You can get a grapple hook attachment for it . You can also get a stump grinding attachment for it. I'm thinking you can also get a front loader attachment for it. Lots of uses for one of those things.

You won't be able to lift huge logs but it will lift logs far heavier than you, I , and 4 other guys combined could lift.

Perhaps an option not sure


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## jetsam (Mar 10, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> What about a toro dingo.
> 
> It's tracked and you stand on the back of it. Easy enough to jump off if it did get sideways. You can get a grapple hook attachment for it . You can also get a stump grinding attachment for it. I'm thinking you can also get a front loader attachment for it. Lots of uses for one of those things.
> 
> ...



Never seen that before, looks cool. Like half of a bobcat.  Their promotional video does show it with a frontloader bucket, but it almost tips over when he picks up a big bucket of dirt. 

Based on the video wouldn't try to pick up a decent sized tree with it, but it might be able to drag a tree with a chain.


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## jetsam (Mar 10, 2016)

Maybe we are overcomplicating this.

You know what can go up uneven muddy terrain, pull logs, grade gravel, push snow, and cost less than $3000?  

A $500 pickup truck with a big winch on the front. Swap out the winch for a blade when needed. When the truck gets stuck, you pull it out with the winch. Use the ball hitch and chains to tow the trees.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 10, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Never seen that before, looks cool. Like half of a bobcat.  Their promotional video does show it with a frontloader bucket, but it almost tips over when he picks up a big bucket of dirt.
> 
> Based on the video wouldn't try to pick up a decent sized tree with it, but it might be able to drag a tree with a chain.



I'm not sure what video you saw on the toro Dingo ? The ones I saw show a fair amount of tree work. In one of them it is lifting a small to medium sized tree onto a flat bed . Ok probably small tree in diameter but it looks long so it's got to be heavy. 

I think they might come in different sizes. But not sure

It is sort of a small skid steer concept without the cockpit but same idea.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 10, 2016)

Check out the Toro Dingo TX1000

Looks like it is the bigger model.  Looks useful but I wonder how much ? Could be good to keep an eye out for a used one


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## jetsam (Mar 10, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I'm not sure what video you saw on the toro Dingo ? The ones I saw show a fair amount of tree work. In one of them it is lifting a small to medium sized tree onto a flat bed . Ok probably small tree in diameter but it looks long so it's got to be heavy.



This one. Link is right before it goes tippy.

Maybe I'm paranoid from all my years of driving forklifts, and yes it was downhill a little, but if it's that unstable with just a bucket of loose dirt 8 inches off the ground, it's not going to be suitable to pick up heavy stuff.

Like I said though, that doesn't mean it can't drag heavy stuff, if it has the engine for it. It definitely looks like it has the traction to do so.

Does look like it's out of his price range (though a lot cheaper than a bobcat).


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## ElmBurner (Mar 10, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Maybe we are overcomplicating this.
> 
> You know what can go up uneven muddy terrain, pull logs, grade gravel, push snow, and cost less than $3000?
> 
> A $500 pickup truck with a big winch on the front. Swap out the winch for a blade when needed. When the truck gets stuck, you pull it out with the winch. Use the ball hitch and chains to tow the trees.


I considered that, but a 2wd truck with snow chains gets stuck about 15 ft into the timber unless the ground is frozen, as well as being unable to navigate through the trees.  I would be more effective going with the capstan winch mentioned earlier (but that leaves me without a way to plow/grade/etc).

Using a crawler that can turn 360 deg in it's own footprint and being about the size of a riding mower is much more usable in my scenario.  It lets me not worry about having to clear a road or trail or getting stuck.

I should get some pictures up, so you guys understand what I'm dealing with.


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## Jags (Mar 10, 2016)

A local tree guy uses one of those Dingo things.  I see it on the job all the time, so it must have use.  After watching it being used, I can't really imagine it doing a bunch of traction work, especially traction work on a steep incline.  They seem to spin out fairly easy.  They appear to be designed more about low impact (yards, turf, etc.).


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## jetsam (Mar 10, 2016)

If your furthest dimension is 1000', you could also bury a few 6x6s 5' in the ground by your woodpile, mount a huge winch on a swivel on top of them, and winch all the trees in from there. You could start by pulling in the furthest tree back, and the cable would cut down a few trees for you as it pulled the first one in. *


*Jetsam Industries will not be liable if you cut your house in half as a result of any whimsical advice recieved from Jetsam Industries.


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## greg13 (Mar 10, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> What about a toro dingo.
> 
> It's tracked and you stand on the back of it. Easy enough to jump off if it did get sideways. You can get a grapple hook attachment for it . You can also get a stump grinding attachment for it. I'm thinking you can also get a front loader attachment for it. Lots of uses for one of those things.
> 
> ...


A well used Dingo or their counterparts will run you at least $6000. You could buy a lot of split & seasoned wood for that kind of money.


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## jetsam (Mar 10, 2016)

Well, I just happen to be selling a well used Dingo! Photo's my profile picture.  Who bids $6000?


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## woodhog73 (Mar 10, 2016)

greg13 said:


> A well used Dingo or their counterparts will run you at least $6000. You could buy a lot of split & seasoned wood for that kind of money.



I wouldn't spend $6k on a dingo or any other tracked vehicle. But then again I'm still able to manually move firewood with my trusty wheelbarrow. 

I suppose that will change someday as none of us are getting any younger.

But if I had to spend money for firewood I'd probably stop burning. I enjoy processing firewood and I've got to maintain the woods anyways.

What's a new Dingo cost ? $6k seems steep . I was thinking they were between $8 and $10 k new


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## D8Chumley (Mar 11, 2016)

firefighterjake said:


> Top speed is 3 mph? I think I would quickly get frustrated with the slow pace.


I've run dozers from a D 3 to D 9 and that's about as fast as they go. I'd like to try that thing out, I wonder how much it weighs? I'd think the weight of the tractor would be a big factor in how much or how well it can pull. @Scott S who makes that little tractor your buddy got? I could find some use for that around here and that price is attractive


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## greg13 (Mar 11, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I wouldn't spend $6k on a dingo or any other tracked vehicle. But then again I'm still able to manually move firewood with my trusty wheelbarrow.
> 
> I suppose that will change someday as none of us are getting any younger.
> 
> ...



Figure $25-30K new
Here is a link for some used machines
http://www.machinio.com/cat/toro-dingo


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## SCOTT S. (Mar 11, 2016)

D8Chumley said:


> I've run dozers from a D 3 to D 9 and that's about as fast as they go. I'd like to try that thing out, I wonder how much it weighs? I'd think the weight of the tractor would be a big factor in how much or how well it can pull. @Scott S who makes that little tractor your buddy got? I could find some use for that around here and that price is attractive


That is a old Struck. He wasn't sure of the year thought it was from late 70's early 80's.


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## D8Chumley (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to start looking around maybe I'll get lucky and find one in my price range


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## heavy hammer (Mar 11, 2016)

It's amazing how much they want for even a little piece of equipment.  All these different ideas are great, but the cost is up there.  I have seen these little tracked guys before they are slow but can get it done.  Main thing to remember if you do get one is you have a small machine to make little jobs easier not a D8 that can pull a house over.  I love when you see machines being used for stuff like this and the owner wonders why it keeps breaking down.


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## heavy hammer (Mar 11, 2016)

It's amazing how expensive small equipment is.  But as said earlier you want a piece of some size you can drop 50k like its nothing.  As you get older the toys change a little but man do they get pricey.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 11, 2016)

I just cant get over the prices of those Dingos. Id buy a used skid steer before I spent 30k on a new dingo.

Sure a new skidsteer will set you back $50k but for $25 k you could get a pretty decent used skid steer with a lot of usable life left in it.  Any brand too Bobcat, New Holland, Cat, etc $25k for a used skidsteer to me would be a better purchase than $25 k for a dingo.


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## greg13 (Mar 12, 2016)

You have to remember that a Dingo (or the other walk behinds) ARE Skidsteers. They have the same hydraulic systems as full size skids just on a smaller scale with just about the prices for pumps & motors. Plus they are a lot tighter to work on. The drive motors run around $1000 each side and usually when they start leaking the main shaft is bad. You can buy any part in the motor EXCEPT the main shaft.


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## heavy hammer (Mar 12, 2016)

I have been told that is a big problem with even skid steers, great machines but very difficult to work on.  They basically have to be opened up to work on and are a pain. Most tractors especially the older ones are fairly simple, most people with some mechanical knowledge can work on them.  My good buddy just picked a McCormick cub with four or five implements all restored for $800. Granted it's two wheel drive with a four cylinder gas motor but for his four acre hobby farm it works.  I think you would be better off with something like that but just my thoughts.  Big equipment is for the guys who use it all day or have way more money than they know what to do with it.  Check out eBay there is always someone selling some form of equipment they bought that they rarely use.  My buddy with the cub had a 50 horse new holland that he got and then sold to his father in law because it was to big he had it just over a year.


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## Jags (Mar 12, 2016)

Folks - don't forget that the OP specifically stated gullies and steep.  Those old rear wheel drive tractors ain't the right piece of equipment for that.  A skidsteer might climb it but won't have any "pull" left in it. A tracked version might be a little better.  Anyhow, just trying to point out the original intent of the post.


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## jeffesonm (Mar 13, 2016)

I had a 1960 ish Oliver OC-46 crawler tractor for a bit.  It weighed around 6000 lbs if I remember correctly, lifted like 2500 lbs with the bucket.  Only 25 hp or so but geared pretty low and would push over trees, pull giant logs and never, ever, ever got stuck.  It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope.  Not a piece of plastic on it... if anything broke you could weld it back together or get a replacement from a place called Zimmerman's in PA.





I think it cost me $2500?  I ended up selling it because the metal tracks mean you can't really drive it on lawns or paved surfaces, but that thing sure was fun.  You should be able to find one for not too much... they were called Cletrac before Oliver.


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## jetsam (Mar 13, 2016)

Jags said:


> Folks - don't forget that the OP specifically stated gullies and steep.  Those old rear wheel drive tractors ain't the right piece of equipment for that.  A skidsteer might climb it but won't have any "pull" left in it. A tracked version might be a little better.  Anyhow, just trying to point out the original intent of the post.



Has anyone said 'old pickup truck with a big winch on the front' yet?


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## jetsam (Mar 13, 2016)

jeffesonm said:


> I had a 1960 ish Oliver OC-46 crawler tractor for a bit.  It weighed around 6000 lbs if I remember correctly, lifted like 2500 lbs with the bucket.  Only 25 hp or so but geared pretty low and would push over trees, pull giant logs and never, ever, ever got stuck.  It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope.  Not a piece of plastic on it... if anything broke you could weld it back together or get a replacement from a place called Zimmerman's in PA.
> 
> View attachment 176675
> 
> ...



That looks like an awesome little machine. Discussion thread about them here. (Short version: Maybe pass if you're not a mechanic, but otherwise they seem well liked amongst their owners.)


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## D8Chumley (Mar 13, 2016)

jeffesonm said:


> and never, ever, ever got stuck.  It's center of gravity was so low I would not hesitate to drive that thing sideways across any slope.


You obviously weren't trying hard enough lol. I've been stuck many times in a dozer, but we get into some real chit and on steep slopes. I'm cutting in a basin now with a JD650 dozer, 2:1 slopes and wet dirt. Can't hang on the slope I just slide to the bottom, and the springs bleeding into the bottom make it a real mess. I haven't been stuck here yet... But it's coming


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## ElmBurner (Mar 14, 2016)

So, here's the kind of stuff I am working with.  These particular pictures don't show the worst of it, but if you notice where I am shooting compared to the "horizon", you can see that there is quite a bit of elevation change.  Lots of crap all over the ground as well.

Is the consensus still that a truck or tractor would work?  It doesn't seem feasible or safe to me, but this isn't something I have a lot of experience with either...


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## D8Chumley (Mar 14, 2016)

In the first pic, where the 2 slopes meet at the bottom, is there a creek there? If so you might have problems tracking through it if it's wet. Maybe lay a couple logs as a bridge parallel and in the creek bed itself to track across with the mini dozer.  Honestly, that doesn't look bad at all to me, but I do this for a living. What type of soil is under the topsoil? Clay will be an issue if it's wet. Gradual turns will be your friend, you won't tear as much up. Try to track in a straight line going up the steeper sections, avoid trying to turn as you want as much power going to both tracks as possible. The blade will be good for pushing those downed logs out of the way, and some smaller trees to make an access road. If your "haul road" starts rutting, drag it off with the blade. Also staggering your track marks will help in soft conditions. Making a dray or some type of sled or aid to help the logs from digging in will make a big difference. Make sure you have a plan to get unstuck before you get stuck. Old tractor tires or car tires will work with a smaller machine, throw that under the track(s) and the grousers will pull it under and a lot of times it will walk itself up and out. If I can think of anything else I'll revisit
Edit: turning around where it's flatter will be a better plan, but not at the low point. Low point will probably be softer


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## jetsam (Mar 14, 2016)

ElmBurner said:


> So, here's the kind of stuff I am working with.  These particular pictures don't show the worst of it, but if you notice where I am shooting compared to the "horizon", you can see that there is quite a bit of elevation change.  Lots of crap all over the ground as well.
> 
> Is the consensus still that a truck or tractor would work?  It doesn't seem feasible or safe to me, but this isn't something I have a lot of experience with either...
> 
> ...



That terrain is not out of bounds for a farm tractor- provided you respect its high center of gravity- or even for an old pickup.

In either case you have to recognize the limitations of your tools and use them appropriately. You wouldn't expect the tractor to tootle sideways along the steep part of the embankment without threatening to tip over, and you would expect the truck to need winch assist going up the hill on a muddy day. (Truck also may not be able to cross that wash with a load, even with the winch, unless you fill it in a little- maybe drop a tree right into it and load some dirt over top.)

Tracked vehicles I can't offer much advice on but they sure sound fun.


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## Buzz Saw (Mar 14, 2016)

Look at something other than John Deere. JD is historical overpriced.  With the pictures you have shown we skid trees with our Allis Chalmers WD and WD45 quite frequently.  We use the lift arms on the WD to raise the front if the log off the ground when skidding. Tons of weight transfer, no slipping for us.

If it's so wet we are cutting ruts it's to wet to be working. We try not to tear up trails because they are un- driveable when thingd get dry and hard.


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## D8Chumley (Mar 14, 2016)

Agreed with both of the above. It's hard for me to say by looking at pictures if it's suitable for a pickup truck but if you have that, I'd certainly give it a try before buying something more expensive. Got the popcorn popping, waiting for results here


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## ElmBurner (Mar 14, 2016)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice.  It's helpful to hear from people who have done this sort of work before.

The ground is a very soft/sandy clay out in the pasture area (to the very rear of the pictures I posted).  Once you get into the timber, it is the same stuff but loaded with organic matter and it all becomes even more soft and loose.  As I walk through the timber, it feels like I am walking on one of those rubber/foam mats.  There's a noticeable "give" to the ground.  This probably explains the erosion issues I am having, as you can almost stick your hand into the ground and grab a handful of soil.  It just washes away if there's no roots in it.

There is no running water back there.  Just whatever drains off the pasture during rains.

My current pick-up is 2WD without a locking differential and can move around in the drier and flatter areas if I put snow chains on it and the ground is dry.  If the ground is wet...forget about it.  I just dig a hole and go nowhere.  I've had to unstick myself using boards, come-alongs, and shovels.  In some cases, by letting the ground dry out first.  It's no fun at all.  Right now, I park at the edge of the wood and fell all the trees in that direction.  Otherwise, I get to carry the wood out by hand.  That gets old in a hurry and stops me from doing anything with the wood in the interior.

Good point about being able to use the blade to clear a trail and push debris away.  I hadn't considered that...goes to show how much I have to learn from the more experienced folks here.  

I guess I am reading the tractor recommendations as being able to carry more weight and the truck recommendations as being able to do the work faster.  Neither one of those are big factors for me, as I'm just one guy doing this as a weekend warrior.  Doing one tree in a weekend would be plenty for me.  The smaller footprint, lower parts cost, smaller fuel expense, etc. is what makes this mini-dozer appealing to me.  I am (possibly over-) concerned about causing problems with erosion, so the idea of a truck or tractor putting big ruts into the ground bothers me.

Decisions, decisions....whatever way I end up going, I'll try to remember to come back here and update.

Also might take some pictures of the worst of the gullies, just for bragging rights.


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## jetsam (Mar 14, 2016)

I learned my lesson about 4 wheel and all wheel drive in the military. I put a deuce and a half into low transmission and 10 wheel drive, and hit a swampy area to power through it with my mighty truck and its powerful multiaxle drivetrain.

I had to walk a couple miles back to the shop and admit I was a moron, and then we got a 5 ton stuck trying to pull the deuce out.

And then I had to wash three incredibly filthy trucks, but I did learn some good lessons about the value of having drivetrain power to all wheels- lesson number one being that a powered wheel is only useful if it has some amount of traction.

In conclusion, 4 wheel drive is useful in some situations that would be marginal for a single wheel drive vehicle, but a rwd truck with a big winch on the front can go places no 4wd truck can.  It's not a pleasant trip though, and you do need to try to get stuck in cable range of something sturdy.

I vote for the giant bulldozer!

(Actually, while I am trotting out military stories, we had john deere forklifts that would not bat an eye at that terrain; doubt they resell for a few thousand dollars though.)






If that's the same kind we had, the frame is a big X with a ball joint in the center, so it can sit on any kind of odd position. Forks do all the usual forklift things plus rotate, so you can level a load with the body at two different angles on an uneven surface.


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## blades (Mar 16, 2016)

fwd articulated front end loader - pricy also - and when they are sold as used they are really used- center pivot is the main wear point. Struck has been around as long as i can remember - Cedarburg Wi bout a 1/2hr drive from my shop There are a couple versions of the crawler- depending on your pocket book  and depending on your abilities in kit form as well. Skid loaders are nice- also pricy- problem when working by yourself is once you lift the front implement you are stuck inside. Small true used tractors ( called Compact Utility Tractors- cut for short) are insanely priced particularly if fwd-   the SCUT( slightly overgrown lawn tractors aren't any better)  Basically tractors are made to pull hence that front axle is the weak link when lifting loads. You can get a lot of work done with the 2wd tractors( minding your manners of course) and prices used are much more reasonable to look at.  Look for sizes related to orchard use.  The Venerable  Ford 8n or 9n( even better with the optional/ aftermarket 2speed primary tranny) and others can be had reasonably-  Massey Ferguson 100 or 500 series just a couple types.  One also has to be aware of where the units were built or parts there of on any of the used market units-  particularly import types ( also known as the grey market units) sometimes what looks like a great deal is that way because parts are no longer available.


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## MaulMan (Mar 16, 2016)

At my work we have a lot of UTVs around and I frequently use a wide range of them for firewood related stuff.  Nearly any UTV model would handle the terrain in the OP's pictures with ease, and they'd be able to haul a decent amount of rounds in the bed or even skid long heavy logs out.  Check out this video of me in a rather well used Cub Cadet Volunteer hauling a load of oak up a very steep hill.  I hauled the whole oak tree out of this guy's yard using the vehicle.  This link is to my google photo page so you can see it in action.  

https://goo.gl/photos/Hf2kV6EQiFG3ZYhn7

You can put a plow on it or just about anything else you want.  It'll easily go 25+mph and has a very low low gear to help getting the heavy loads up the big hills.  

There are a lot of other UTV models that can do similar work - they're all light enough that they don't get stuck often or tear up the terrain to badly.  And they're a lot of fun when the chores are done.


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## ElmBurner (Mar 16, 2016)

When I did a search a while back, the cheapest UTVs were in the $7k range, which got you something pretty bare bones.

I got a quote from the company.  You get the dozer kit, a blade with bucket (handles about 200 lbs of material), grouser tracks, and a rear drawbar for $4200, plus $330 shipping.  They let you pay with Paypal Credit, which is 18 months 0% interest (and 19.99% retroactively if you go over 18 months).

It would be fun to have a UTV and I did consider for a while, but I don't see that I can get as much work done with it as with one of these machines.  At double the cost.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Mar 17, 2016)

ElmBurner said:


> I got a quote from the company.  You get the dozer kit, a blade with bucket (handles about 200 lbs of material), grouser tracks, and a rear drawbar for $4200, plus $330 shipping.  They let you pay with Paypal Credit, which is 18 months 0% interest (and 19.99% retroactively if you go over 18 months).



Do you get an engine and drive train with this kit?


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## Jags (Mar 17, 2016)

Not trying to pick on any particular brand or style, but there ain't no way an old school Ford (8N, 9N), or old 2wd international utility tractor would be in my stable for use on those hills.  They were notorious for walking over backwards on flat ground, let alone with the help of a steep angle. Some would work fine (it is based off of where the drawbar attaches to the underneath, like the old Case tractors) and some don't. 
From what I can see, I think I would be in the camp of a 4wd ATV/UTV with a small sled or trailer.


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## peakbagger (Mar 17, 2016)

My brother has very hilly territory in NH and uses a Honda Foreman ATV with a log arch for hauling trees out of the woods. His arch has a rotary joint on the hitch bar that substantially reduces the chance of rollover as there is not torque transmitted between the ATV and the arch. As I stated in an earlier post, IMHO high center of gravity equipment should not be used on slopes, it is way to easy to roll over. A few years back VT identified tractor roll overs in the farm section as a major issue to the point where there were state funds to retrofit older tractors with roll bars. A tractor in general for moving wood around in hilly territory is the wrong tool for the job


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## ElmBurner (Mar 17, 2016)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> Do you get an engine and drive train with this kit?


Yep.  Comes with a Briggs and Stratton 250cc engine (11.5 lb ft of torque).  The transmission is belt drive closer to the engine and chain drive closer to the tracks.  Geared way down.


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## Buzz Saw (Mar 17, 2016)

Sounds like you've made up your mind. Buy it and do an extensive review.


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## Lcback (Mar 17, 2016)

I think you can get a nice quad and winch for that price.


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## ElmBurner (Mar 17, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> Sounds like you've made up your mind. Buy it and do an extensive review.


Yeah, I guess I have.    I suppose I just have different priorities and am probably being overly cautious.  But all the advice is much appreciated.  Helps me feel like I have considered all aspects of it.

Anyway, if I end up getting it, I'll be sure to document the build process and let everyone know how it handles what I want to do with it.


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## bpirger (Mar 28, 2016)

I have a 1984 Zetor 5245...4WD machine, with loader, and I put a Wallenstein 3PT winch on it.  I winch trees out from 150' away....hard to tell from pictures, but I think I have steeper slopes than you.  Winch line gets me 150' off the "road"...then I skid back to the woodshed.  It works quite well.  I find driving an ATV into the bush nearly impossible...and chunking, throwing 10', walking, throwing, walking, throwing...feasible.  I paid $6500 for the tractor/loader  (with about 980 hours) in 1998.  I've had to do a little work on it, but mostly because of lack of use (throw bearing seized to the shaft....had to split).  The winch was about $2200 I think a few years ago?  It has been great.   More money than the tracked machine but perhaps more versatile.    I was taught that old tractors will just run and run and run....seems to be true.  I have about 1250 hours now....nearly 20 years later...she sits way to much.  Use it as a man lift (10' up) with pallet forks in the bucket....and firewood.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Apr 1, 2016)

This just popped up!

 MAGNATRAC Compact Crawler Tractors Starting at only $3,995 for a Limited Time! Wheeled tractors are great, but tractors with tracks have better traction, flotation and if you need to dig; thereÂ’s nothing better! Do you have a good solution for skidding logs, cleaning horse stalls, small landscaping jobs and excavating/grading jobs in tight areas? If notÂ…theyÂ’ve got one! Check out the MAGNATRAC Compact Crawler Tractors, Made in the USA for over 45 years! Starting at $3,995 until April 15th this Spring, they pretty much have a solution for any budget. As a special offer to My Tractor Forum readers; theyÂ’re offering a FREE Planning Kit with DVD. Make sure to mention promo code: MTF316 on their website or call toll free: 1-877-828-8323 today!

http://struckcorp.com/mtf316


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## ElmBurner (Apr 8, 2016)

Well, I ordered it.  They are having a promotion up until April 15, so who knows how long the back log will be.

I upgraded the shocks and springs on my pick-up so I can haul the 900 lb pallet home from the freight depot.  Needed an excuse to do that, as I had a "low rider" thing going when hauling a bed full of oak splits back home this past season.  Just wore out after 15 years, I suppose.

Everything comes unpainted.  I can't bring myself to paint it all "Cat Yellow", so I am probably going to go with some combo of paint colors from a tractor.  Leaning towards the gray/vermillion of older Ford tractors at the moment.

I'll post more to this thread (or create a new one) to document the build process and give some impressions as time goes on.


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2016)

Please feel free to create a new "build" thread for the machine.  I think it will be better serving in the long run.


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## Lcback (Apr 8, 2016)

Can't wait to see the build thread. And your final review. 

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## ElmBurner (Apr 11, 2016)

Jags said:


> Please feel free to create a new "build" thread for the machine.  I think it will be better serving in the long run.


Ok, will do.


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## Buzz Saw (May 8, 2016)

Did get the machine? Did you start a new thread?


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## ElmBurner (May 9, 2016)

I got it.  Right now it is currently scattered across the floor of my garage, waiting until I get enough time to sort things into piles and do inventory, then I need to get started painting.

I have taken a few pictures, but I was saving them for the new thread.

If anyone has tips or links to a guide for painting bare steel, I'll take them.  Current thoughts are to use tractor/implement paint, which goes on pretty easily with a brush or roller.  I don't have the time/money/interest in setting up a spray booth.


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## ElmBurner (Sep 13, 2016)

For those who followed this original thread, here's my follow-up.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/mini-crawler-build-struck-rs196k.156117/


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