# 8 inch pipe and chimney installation for basement stove



## ponderosa77 (Dec 1, 2015)

Hello group and thank you for all of the help so far.

I want to put my Fisher stove with 8 inch outlet in the basement in the largest room, which happens to be directly underneath the largest room upstairs. 

The basement is somewhat unfinished, including a slab floor and wall in the immediate vicinity of the planned stove location.  The basement ceiling in this room is uninsulated and the plan would be to let any stove heat rise into the upper level through the basement ceiling while also heating the basement area.  Otherwise, I heat the upstairs-only with an effective gas furnace. 

The gas furnace has registers in all upstairs rooms and the cold air return is upstairs.  There are no registers or runs in the basement.  The furnace has its own fresh air duct from outside directly into the machine room.

My stove outlet is on the rear of the stove.  I would like to get an idea of pros and cons regarding different piping options, which as I see it, are as follows:

1. Elbow or T off of (T preferred for cleanup) the back of the stove and penetrate basement ceiling, pass up through the main floor in the corner of two walls, then up through the vaulted ceiling and out through the roof with appropriate clearances and triple-wall pipe; wall up/enclose pipe passing through upstairs area; total pipe length would be at least 24ft.

2. Elbow, T, or 45 off of the back of the stove, elbow or T towards the concrete wall, pass through a hole in the concrete wall, elbow or 45 to pipe bracketed to wall on outside of house.

I like option 1 for the straight run and that it looks nice and professional.  However, this may add expense and complexity to the installation, including possibly requiring more pipe.  It also places more of the pipe inside the home, which will probably help keep the pipe warmer, but it also places the pipe closer to combustibles.  This is not an install that I would perform myself.

I like option 2 because most of the pipe is outside of the house, which seems safer.  I can do the work myself and with assistance of contractors for less expense.  Overall cost could be less and I have someone who can properly cut the hole.  It would be nice to be able to cleanup outside as well.  However, it doesn't look as nice and may not draw as well due to the horizontal runs.

I'm sure there is a lot of other insight on here regarding possibilities and they should be considered. 

I also realize some would say just put a 6 inch pipe in and save for a more efficient stove.  The next question to follow that would be, could you adapt from 6 inch and exhaust into an 8 inch chimney from your 6 inch modern stove?  Searching around seems to indicate that is fine but going the other way from an 8 to 6 would not be fine.  I've been looking at SuperVent pipe.

Pics / floor plan to follow.

Thank you.


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## coaly (Dec 1, 2015)

You can increase from 6 to 8 with an older stove, but expanding flue gasses cool considerably and is not recommended. Smaller stoves with 6 inch outlets may not have enough loss to keep flue temperature high enough with the larger 8. Keep in mind 6 to 8 is almost twice the size.
Most all newer stoves are going to require 6.
Although not legal to decrease the size smaller than the stove outlet, your stove was built with an over size outlet for open door burning with screen in place. When the stove was designed, most were vented into existing fireplace flues even larger. So it will physically work fine reduced with an insulated flue. Even with an added baffle installed, at least with an indoor chimney.
Inside chimney would be Class A and clearance to combustibles would not be an issue. Follow manufacturers installation instructions. (The "pack" type double wall chimney is much smaller in diameter than triple wall)
Double wall connector pipe inside will give you higher flue temperature for the exposed outdoor insulated chimney.

The chimney pros on the site can give you more input, but the physical confines of the building may play a larger part in requiring an outdoor chimney. (and your bank account)
Are you sure you don't want an 8 just in case you find an XL ?


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## bholler (Dec 1, 2015)

Installing the chimney inside will cost less in materials outside you will need a tee which is expensive and more pipe.  As far as distance to combustibles just follow the instructions and you will be fine.  If i was doing the install i would probably recommend 7"  it will work fine with your stove now and with your height it should work fine with a new stove as well.  Another thing to think about is the fact that the new largest stoves are starting to use 8" again so depending on you heating needs and budget it may make sense to just use 8" and save for one of the new large stoves.


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 1, 2015)

Thanks for the tips gentlemen.  I was thinking all along to just match the stove outlet and had planned on 8 inches but the local fireplace guys that sell all the fancy pellet stoves and efficient wood stoves have suggested to go with 6 inch pipe.  I should also consider future resale value as well, and that may dictate a 6 inch pipe.  I personally don't forsee (don't want to for sure) removing the 8 inch Fisher and going with a more modern 6 inch stove, but a lot of that depends on the deal to be had.  If the deal is right, then sure.  I definitely want to be sure of the choice.  I have already been looking around to see if any new stoves come with 8 inch outlets....

The 7 inch idea is new to me so thanks for that.  I had not considered an intermediate size, and unless there is a solid reason not to do that, this idea sounds like a great compromise. 

I think a straight shot up through the ceiling and then the roof would be great while in either scenario, I think at least 24 feet of pipe will be needed.  I thought I saw with one of the triple wall variants that only 2 inches of clearance is required.  This would be ideal because then I can run the pipe up through the basement ceiling and through the main floor while maintaining close clearance to the corner of 2 walls.

I am planning to at some point try a baffle in this Fisher Grandpa as well.

Pics will follow but 7" pipe sounds about right.  I would also like to add a manual damper control with the thought that if the pipe was too large, I could use the damper a little.  That should affect airflow/velocity through the pipe but probably would do nothing to prevent the cooling of expanding gasses.

So if I can go close to the wall corner in the main floor (and sheetrock it off to hide it), and use a 7" pipe (will need to do the math on volume to compare), I can go have a look at parts pricing.  If I can't be so close to the wall with piping, I should plan to route out the wall instead. 

How does cleanup work if there is no T and cap?


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 2, 2015)

coaly said:


> Are you sure you don't want an 8 just in case you find an XL ?


 
That is a good idea.... I would take an XL in a heartbeat, especially if it were in as good as shape as is my father in-law's XL....

However, after moving the stove into the basement yesterday evening, I'm not sure a bigger stove will fit through the doors....  BTW, 4 of us muscled it into the house where we strapped it to a furniture dolly; two people below and 3 at the top and took it down the stairs.  My stairs proved strong enough.

Now I need to settle on a pipe plan and see if I can fire it by January....


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 13, 2015)

Was researching wall pass through systems and saw this video on YouTube.  He didn't want to have 30 degree offsets on his chimney in order to miss his soffit overhang and also wanted more than 2 inches clearance from his siding so he put the 30 offset between the wall and the tee.  This offers a horizontal rise for his "longer than normal" horizontal pass through.  Of course this also required custom wall standoff brackets.

I think another thing he mentioned is that it brought his cleanout tee up above grade a little higher for easier cleanout (or to prevent the tee from being below grade).  The distance between grade and wall/siding in his case is very similar to mine.  What is the general thinking regarding his install?


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 14, 2015)

ponderosa77 said:


> Was researching wall pass through systems and saw this video on YouTube.  He didn't want to have 30 degree offsets on his chimney in order to miss his soffit overhang and also wanted more than 2 inches clearance from his siding so he put the 30 offset between the wall and the tee.  This offers a horizontal rise for his "longer than normal" horizontal pass through.  Of course this also required custom wall standoff brackets.
> 
> I think another thing he mentioned is that it brought his cleanout tee up above grade a little higher for easier cleanout (or to prevent the tee from being below grade).  The distance between grade and wall/siding in his case is very similar to mine.  What is the general thinking regarding his install?




Wonder how he adapted to stove pipe on the inside of the wall. I suppose with another 30 degree chimney piece... I wonder how it drafts. Looks like a tall run to the roof...


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 28, 2015)

Ok, here are some installation pictures.  This installation will pass from the basement, through the upstairs floor, then through the attic and out through the roof with no offsets.

First, the Selkirk Supervent pipe and chimney:




Surprisingly, it isn't beat up too badly.  Taping the boxes together probably helped a lot.

Here is a look at the I-Joists, into which the support box will be installed:



The support box measures ~12 inches square so a little framing work is necessary and the framing should support the metal box on all 4 sides.



Marking the hole:



I used a drill to make a starter hole and then a sawzall tool to cut the hole:



Testing the fit of the support box.  A little too tight here:



After working on the hole a little more, the box fit nicely:



I secured the box to the framing on all 4 sides using screws.  Instructions allow specific nails or screws.  The support box kit comes with a single chimney clamp and some little screws but I plan to use wall brackets and roof guy brackets for added chimney support.  The little screws penetrate the outer stainless chimney casing but not the inner flue pipe.

After tightening the chimney clamp, the 4 small sheet metal screws are used to secure the clamp around a section of chimney while other black finishing screws can be used with the trim pieces.  The support box will support a number of feet of chimney hanging below the box but most would probably prefer to see black stove pipe instead of stainless chimney pipe.  Nevertheless, the amount of chimney hanging below the box may be adjusted for safety and clearances:



The chimney (with clamp installed) drops from the top down into the box.  No electrical wiring should exist inside a chimney chase so I will be moving these cables:



This is 6 inch chimney coupled with a 6 inch cathedral ceiling support box measuring ~12x12x17 inches.  The support box is designed to center the chimney and keep a 2 inch clearance from combustibles on all 4 sides.  I have the minimum clearances but will frame the chase with wider clearances.  When it comes time to build the chase, carpet will be removed and electrical will be relocated.  In this picture, it is easy to see the 4 inch clearance between chimney and drywall.  One or more wall brackets may be used for additional support:



It's easy to stack and twist-lock chimney sections as needed.  I also have locking bands (not required but my preference) for each joint that will get installed last:



The chimney adapter transitions the chimney to stove pipe and simply twist locks into the first chimney section.  When this is installed, the chimney cannot be extracted up and out of the support box, so this should be done last.  Note: Plumbing is not in direct contact with the support box and can be relocated:



This type of prefab chimney is very nice.  Look at the smooth inner flue:



I will be using the nicer double-wall stove pipe (for close clearances) inside as well as a clean out tee and a damper.  I also have a stove top thermometer as well as a stove pipe thermometer that measures internal gas temperature.  And although I don't need 6 inch clearance (due to non-combustible concrete wall and floor), the chimney will offer that clearance or more on all sides.

The two remaining challenges will be to try and fit the stove pipe, tee, damper, stove adapter, etc. to my stove and of course passing the chimney up through the attic and roof.  When the rest of my Selkirk order arrives, it will contain both a firestop and an attic insulation shield.  Whereas I have a cathedral ceiling and am installing near a corner, the vertical attic space may only be 12 inches or less so I may have to adapt the shield, build my own chase, etc.

Because of the cold weather, I am working on thawing the shingles and it has been recommended to use a heat gun when installing the flashing.

More pics to follow.


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## ponderosa77 (Dec 28, 2015)

There were a number of reasons I decided against a through-the-wall installation, including a few major ones.  The core driller said he could not drill a 30 degree angle through the wall.  A straight hole would place my outdoor clean out tee at or below grade and the thought of dealing with that issue was unappealing.  Equally unappealing was the thought of drilling dozens of drill holes and chiseling out a rough concrete hole.  Also, I didn't want a horizontal section of pipe or an expensive offset in the soffit area.  Standing the pipe off the wall a couple of feet to miss the soffit overhang would make for an ugly and nonstandard installation and I didn't like the thought of cutting the rain gutter and soffit.  Also, I didn't want to have to build an outdoor chase and finish it to match existing siding.  Etc.

So an indoor flue installation was chosen but came with its own challenges.  The 8 inch chimney would be too big for one thing.  Another issue is working on the roof during cold weather.  Pipe size could be an issue in more ways than one but I expect that the 6 inch pipe will be fine in my scenario because I am going to have a nice straight and tall run of indoor, insulated chimney with good height, which should draft very nicely.  It will also accommodate a variety of new stoves with 6 inch outlets, such as the 30 NCH.


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## 3650 (Jan 3, 2016)

hmmm I didnt know you can run pipe through a living space lil that... I'll be rethinking my basement installation.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 3, 2016)

3650 said:


> hmmm I didnt know you can run pipe through a living space lil that... I'll be rethinking my basement installation.



Well, there are two important points: it will be enclosed in a chase and it is class A chimney. Stove pipe can't be used like this.

I will post more pics soon. If weather permits, the roof part will get done this week.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 4, 2016)

Weather is going to be sloppy this week again so I'm not sure if I can get the roof part done or not.  I've assembled most of the stove pipe but am waiting for a few critical pieces to arrive, such as the damper and stove adapter.  Will post some of those pics later.  Here are a few more of the chimney installation.

I used a small nail to make some test holes in the ceiling drywall as well as a stud finder to make sure the chimney would work in the planned location.  Those test passed so using a hand held drywall/keyhole saw, I moved on to cutting a small square test hole that I could look into.  When that test passed, I cut a 12 inch round hole, taking care to use only the tip of the saw (shallow strokes).  I could have just used the sawzall to make the hole but as always seems to happen, I found a surprise.  The sawzall tool would have just zipped through this, which could have turned into a real problem:



This wire feeds the outlet right next to the chase, so I could simply remove this circuit but something else is tied onto it, which I haven't traced out yet.  I was able to get just enough slack to just move the wire aside.  Any additional slack will require the removal of a wire staple and drywall patching.  This Supervent Attic Insulation Shield (AIS) is designed to fit into a 12 inch hole and after moving the wire, it fit.

However, as I suspected, using the AIS in my scenario would not be ideal because I only have something like 6-10 inches of depth in this area for the shield and the shield measures about 12 inches between the top and the square edges that are designed to nail to rafters.  The other issue is there is no framing to nail the AIS to.  Even if I cut a round hole in the roof and push the shield all the way through, the angle of the cathedral ceiling inside the house will present a problem:



I had to cut a ~13 inch square hole in the drywall and frame up a small square support box to place between the rafters and around the chimney hole.  This provides something to attach the AIS to for support.  It was very tricky to pre-build the support framework and later wiggle it somehow into the 12 inch square hole, while moving insulation aside and while working with only 6-10 inches of attic space (to avoid cutting and patching ceiling drywall).  Somehow it worked. 

However, after I built the support framework, I thought it would be beneficial to build an enclosed chase.  I cut the OSB to match the slope of the roof and this chase prevents any attic insulation from contacting the chimney while providing the required 2 inch clearance on all sides  Notice the electrical wire is no longer visible.  I used screws so that I can remove these test pieces and later make more precision cuts for tighter fit if necessary:



With a fully enclosed chase of proper clearances, the AIS isn't necessary but I would like to use it anyway.  When it is time to cut through the roof, the hole will be large enough to allow the AIS to push up into the chase a little further.  Since there are no rafters below the AIS, the square flanges will not be needed for mounting.  The AIS will be secured to the framing around the square chase.  The AIS may or may not have to be trimmed to match roof slope.

Here is a preassembly test.  I taped one of the stainless wall brackets and locking rings to prevent accidental injury (they are sharp).  Clamps and locking rings are not fully or permanently installed because I will be separating the chimney long enough to install the required firestop shield into the support box.  The brackets provide the minimum 2 inches of clearance:



Here is the firestop shield that will be installed at floor level inside the support box.  It will fit around the chimney and drop into the support box.  It is arriving in a delayed shipment or I would have already installed it:



The roof flashing opening is slightly larger than the chimney diameter, hence the reason for installing a storm collar above the flashing.  This air gap will allow cold air into the chimney chase.  I also noticed the chimney support box clamp that fits around the first chimney section inside the support box has a gap that will also allow a small amount of cold air to pass through the support box into the area near the stove.  I have also ordered the supervent universal insulation, if I decide to use it:



I am looking into chase requirements for drywall, insulation, safety, etc. but planned to frame, drywall (interior and exterior), and insulate the chase around the exposed chimney.  This will keep the living area warmer and safer.  I will be removing all carpeting that would otherwise end up inside the chase.

I have installed the double-wall stove pipe and cleanout tee near the stove but am waiting for the damper and stove adapter.  Because I ended up with some added chimney length plus chimney adapter length, my pipe was slightly too long, so the stove must sit on the slab floor for now.  Later, I will remove some stove pipe length and elevate the stove. 

For anyone else considering Selkirk, I am very pleased with the quality and fit of the Selkirk double wall, pre-crimped stove pipe.  It has been "no hassle" pipe and allows for reduced clearances, safety, and increased performance.  In fact, all of the Selkirk products so far have been of much better quality than I anticipated.

Will post pics of the stove and stovepipe area soon.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 4, 2016)

Here is a look at the cleanout tee.  I have a little adjustment room because of the slip joint pipe near the support box.  The stove will not be this close to the wall since other components will need to be installed, such as the damper, stove adapter, etc.:



Here is a look at the (fully retracted) slip joint, the finishing band, and one of the 24 inch sections of pipe:



Here is a look at the stove and pipe:



Here is the FlueGard thermometer that will be installed on the flue pipe.  The probe extends into the interior of the pipe itself, since I have double wall pipe:



Here is the Inferno stove top thermometer:


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## begreen (Jan 4, 2016)

Will the wall behind the stove get a wall shield?


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 4, 2016)

begreen said:


> Will the wall behind the stove get a wall shield?



It will be pulled away further from the wall but I planned on removing wall studs and having bare wall or maybe stone or brick at a later time. I did not plan to have any combustibles behind the stove due to closer clearances. That's also why I used double wall stove pipe.

I could fabricate or obtain a wall shield as well if it is recommended or required.

A local inspector let me borrow a code book checklist and I was hoping to find information about indoor chase construction but all of the information was regarding masonry chimneys. I need to find out chase wall requirements. .....


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## begreen (Jan 5, 2016)

The chase is primarily to protect the pipe and to protect the room occupants from touching the pipe. It needs to honor the 2" clearances for the pipe. That's about all.  I would add a vent top and bottom to recapture some of the heat coming off the pipe. 

The rear clearance requirement for the stove is 36" That can be reduced down to as little as 12" with a proper wall shield.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 5, 2016)

That's the one thing I don't know - how hot the chimney will get and how much radiant heat it will emit.  There will be airflow inside the chase due to the gap between chimney and roof flashing.  This will allow cool air to sink in when the stove is not in use.  There is also the small gap around the clamp at the first chimney section in the support box and a little cool air could pass through there into the basement.  I definitely do not want cold air passing from the chase into the living area.  However, over insulating could overheat the chase as well.

I did find an interesting thread on the matter:
http://forums.finehomebuilding.com/...sulation/woodstove-chimney-chase-construction

I will plan to sheetrock the inside and outside of the chase but omit the wall insulation, install the firestop into the support box, install the attic insulation shield along with the Supervent JUSI insulation at the attic level, as per manufacturer recommendations, then observe the 2 inch minimum clearance in all areas.


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## Builderml (Jan 5, 2016)

I installed my double wall pipe this past fall for my new furnace installation. I understand why one my want to sheetrock the inside of a chase but it is not necessary. Just to let you know, if your tight on space use metal studs for your chase framing. You can reduce your Chase size a nice amount. I am sure you know but Drywall is considered a combustible.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 5, 2016)

Builderml said:


> I installed my double wall pipe this past fall for my new furnace installation. I understand why one my want to sheetrock the inside of a chase but it is not necessary. Just to let you know, if your tight on space use metal studs for your chase framing. You can reduce your Chase size a nice amount. I am sure you know but Drywall is considered a combustible.



Good idea on the metal studs.  I think anything is combustible if it gets hot enough but I don't like the idea of exposed lumber.  How did you build your chase?


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## Builderml (Jan 5, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> Good idea on the metal studs.  I think anything is combustible if it gets hot enough but I don't like the idea of exposed lumber.  How did you build your chase?


No exposed wood if your going to use steel studs. I have basically the same chase as you. You'll need 4 steel studs in total and one piece of steel track. Steel track is what the steel studs slide into, acts as the bottom and top plate.I attached two studs against the wall one on each side about 2 1/2" wider then the pipe for clearance. Ran a piece of track for top and bottom plate from the wall past the front of the pipe again 2 1/2" . Install a stud on each side in the front and covered with Drywall. You don't need to frame a wall across the front. Your Drywall will span from "wing wall to wing wall". Hope you understand what I am trying to say. Also when I put the top and bottom plate in I notched out for the pipe in the middle with tin snips so I can get it closer. I used 3 1/2" steel studs and only wanted 2 1/2" past the pipe so that's why I notched it. If the space won't impact you at all you can use it full width. Many different ways to frame it with steel. You could just use an L shape angle for the bottom and top plate and frame with your studs on edge " the 1 1/2" depth way". This way no need to notch anything. Hope you can make out what I am trying to say. If you need a picture drawn let me know. I'll help if I can.


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## begreen (Jan 5, 2016)

Chimneys are put in wood framed chases all the time. As long as clearances are honored or exceeded it is not an issue. But no harm framing it in metal. 

PS: The chimney is already at 2" from wood at the support box and at the braces.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 6, 2016)

By the way, this document from Supervent is one of the best I've found at detailing and planning a basement (or 3 level) install.  It's really worth a look:
https://www.menards.com/main/store/...rod_Tech_Spec/combinedBuyersGuidetechdata.pdf

Some things to notice:
1.  They are only showing the support box (no firestop) where the chimney passes from the basement into the first living space.
2.  They are showing a 6 inch double wall stove pipe clearance.
3.  They are showing the attic insulation shield for the roof pass through area.
4.  They only mention one thing about the interior chase - that the chimney must be enclosed in living areas and that the 2 inch clearance is honored.

My install:
1.  I plan to use the support box together with the firestop where the chimney passes from the basement into the first living space.
2.  I will be using 6 inch double wall pipe with >6 inch clearance even though the wall behind it is non combustible.
3.  In addition to fully enclosed attic chase, I will be using the attic insulation shield together with the JUSI universal insulation for the roof pass through area.
4.  My chase will provide more than 2 inches of clearance to the chimney.

The thing that is interesting is that Supervent wants 2 inches of clearance everywhere, yet their firestop and universal insulation is specified to be packed between the chimney and the shielding.  So the insulation directly contacts the hot chimney?

My parts are arriving today.  However, we will have a high of 38f with light snow/rain over 70 percent of the forecast area.

Builder, thanks for the ideas for the chase, BTW.


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## bholler (Jan 6, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> 1. They are only showing the support box (no firestop) where the chimney passes from the basement into the first living space.


The support box is a fire stop


ponderosa77 said:


> The thing that is interesting is that Supervent wants 2 inches of clearance everywhere, yet their firestop and universal insulation is specified to be packed between the chimney and the shielding. So the insulation directly contacts the hot chimney?



That is 2" clearance to combustibles the insulation you use needs to be non combustible so it is not an issue.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 7, 2016)

Well, in consideration of the storms lining up on the west coast, that we had a high of 38 today, and that FedEx (finally) delivered the rest of my 2-week-old order, today was the day.  

With some assistance from a good friend, we were on the roof a half hour after my parts were delivered and cut a 12 inch square hole in my nice roof.  We first drilled 4 edge holes from inside the house to mark the edges of the square chase and then cut out a square with a skillsaw.  We centered the chimney and then bracketed into position.  With a storm on the way, we installed the flashing, storm collar, cap, and spark screen.  It got too cold to install the guy brackets so I will have to do that later, especially since I have one more chimney section to add.

I will post pics shortly but a couple of hours later, after connecting the stove pipe to the stove and double checking everything, I did a couple of draft tests before lighting a small paper fire.  Everything looks great and seems to function well.  Right now I have 23ft of vertical pipe installed but I may add the remaining section for a 26ft chimney.  I'll see how it drafts over a good fire first and then decide.

Later today I will install my flue and stove thermometers and try to get a nice fire going.  I'll be starting out conservative and will be checking chimney temperatures, especially in the main floor area before enclosing the flue.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 7, 2016)

Here are some more pictures of the stove installation.  Selkirk products have been a joy to work with and the company has been great as well.  The fit, finish, and quality of their products have been outstanding.

I like that they label all of their parts, including the addition of a chimney direction arrow:



Here is a look at the stove/appliance adapter.  You can see the double wall construction:



Here is a look at the stove adapter installed on the stove.  There is a screw hole on the pipe but I'm not sure yet how to best secure the adapter to the stove flue collar:



Here is how their reducer looks, which is a quality product as well:



Here is a look at the assembled stove pipe and how it goes together.  I'm still waiting for my damper to arrive in the mail.  I'm not sure but I think it will fit between the stove adapter and reducer.  I have almost 36 inches of clearance from the slab/non-combustible wall as is but if the damper is installed, I will have 36 inches or more of clearance.  The vertical pipe section has around 10 inches of clearance from the non-combustible wall.

I did drop some pipe sections here or there as it is a little difficult for one person to fully assemble alone, but the process has otherwise been painless.  The best part has been no crimping required!:



Everything gets checked multiple times so here is a look into the flue from inside the stove:



With everything in place and an obvious draft present in the chimney, I lit a small paper fire to test the draft.  Looks and behaves good so far but will build a series of larger fires this evening to test further.  This fire does reveal some cracked bricks that I will need to repair or replace.  I will install the flue and stove top thermometer before firing further.

I presently have 23ft of pipe/chimney and an additional section I can install when I'm able to add the roof bracket (waiting on weather again).  I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell a difference between a 23ft stack and a 26ft stack but I'm pretty sure I'll add the additional section if I can properly support it.  If the draft proves well enough, a later project might be to install a baffle (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...d-fisher-more-heat-less-smoke-under-25.74710/):



Here is a look at the chimney chase area, as yet unenclosed.  Firestop and Supervent JUSI insulation are installed at support box level and the attic insulation shield and JUSI insulation are installed in the attic chase area.

The Supervent flashing is vented and the JUSI insulation instructions specify to pack the insulation between the chimney pipe and the insulation shield, and also between the chimney pipe and the firestop shield.  The insulation is at least 2 inches thick by about 48 inches long out of the box and the instructions state to strip the insulation apart to make two 1 inch thick blankets, one for the attic shield and one for the firestop shield:




The support box has been vacuumed out (very important - it got quite messy).  I've also installed locking bands on all of the chimney sections.  Safety tape will be removed from the clamps and low voltage wiring moved out of the chase.  Depending on how hot the chimney gets, I will probably elect to not insulate the 2 chase walls, especially since the attic insulation shield area is now insulated.  However, I plan to drywall the inside of the chase or possibly Durock or similar.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> The fit, finish, and quality of their products have been outstanding.


You havnt worked with enough products their fit and finish in my experince is pretty poor on most of their product lines.  I am not saying it is bad stuff it works just fine but there is stuff out there that is much easier to work with



ponderosa77 said:


> I like that they label all of their parts, including the addition of a chimney direction arrow:


They all do it is required by the ul listing



ponderosa77 said:


> I plan to drywall the inside of the chase or possibly Durock or similar.


That is totally un necessary and a real pita.  


It is a very nice install though and it seems like you really paid allot of attention to detail good job.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 7, 2016)

bholler said:


> You havnt worked with enough products their fit and finish in my experince is pretty poor on most of their product lines.  I am not saying it is bad stuff it works just fine but there is stuff out there that is much easier to work with
> 
> 
> They all do it is required by the ul listing
> ...


 
You are right that I haven't worked with enough other products.  Pretty sure the Excel chimney would be real nice also.  I did look at the DuraPlus stuff at HomeDepot as well.  Regardless, not having to crimp anything was great.

You are right about the Durock stuff.  I was looking at the cement board stuff and it looks like it's harder to work with, harder to cut, etc.  Fire rated 5/8 inch sheetrock on the inside and outside of a 2x4 wall supposedly provides a 1hr fire rating and that would be good.

On another note, due to the bad weather, the flashing install is not perfect.  The silicone isn't curing very good for one thing (I'm just going to have to get on the roof again in warmer weather to really seal it up).  We had about an hour of decent 38f weather yesterday and used good silicone but it would be much better if I had several hours of even 40f+ weather instead....

Thank you for all of your help.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> You are right about the Durock stuff. I was looking at the cement board stuff and it looks like it's harder to work with, harder to cut, etc. Fire rated 5/8 inch sheetrock on the inside and outside of a 2x4 wall supposedly provides a 1hr fire rating and that would be good.


I am saying don't bother putting anything on the inside it is a waste of time money and energy you don't need it at all.



ponderosa77 said:


> You are right that I haven't worked with enough other products. Pretty sure the Excel chimney would be real nice also. I did look at the DuraPlus stuff at HomeDepot as well. Regardless, not having to crimp anything was great.


Excell and ventis stuff are way nicer to work with i find the selkirk stuff a real pain to use.  and even with the lock bands thay dont lock as secure as the better pipe.  But like i said it is not bad i just will never choose to work with it


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 8, 2016)

Well, normally my basement is less than 60f.  On the north side, it's more like 57f this time of year.

Right now it's over 75f so the stove and chimney are doing the job.  I've been experimenting with things for the last 4 hours.  Right now the stove is idling at 500f on some cedar splits and the flue thermometer is reading around 300f.  I also ran the stove to about 650 earlier.

The chimney does get hot to the touch.  Right now when it is running at around 300 or so, it is hot but I can put my hand on it.  When I ran the stove up to 650, the flue was obviously much hotter (probably 450 or so) and was too hot to touch and would burn a hand.  I think insulating the chase walls won't therefore be necessary and may even cause excessive internal heat.  I was worried about the wall bands getting too hot as well but they aren't really transferring any significant heat back to the wall studs, which is great.

The 23ft flue is drafting well.  Cedar wood is a little hard to start but even with the doors open, I haven't set off the smoke alarm 10ft away.  I'm not sure if I'll add the other 3ft section or not.  One thing is for sure, the draft is good enough that it revealed a possible problem with the front doors: with the draft caps fully closed, it sounds like the stove will draw a little air between the doors.  Not sure what can or should be done about that.  Maybe I just need to install the damper on the outlet to help with that issue.

The thermometers I got are also useful - I can glance from across the room at the colors and make adjustments.


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## begreen (Jan 8, 2016)

Put a 4" x 10" grille at the top and bottom of the chase to ventilate out the heat and add a little room heat too. A damper on the stove pipe is a common remedy on old stoves. It will slow down the flue gases a bit, keeping the flue a bit cooler and the stove a bit hotter. Don't forget to open the damper before opening the stove doors or you may get a snoot full of smoke.


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## coaly (Jan 8, 2016)

With double wall pipe and inside chimney you probably have way too much draft. Yes, a damper is needed. Close it to keep the flue temp down when burning harder. Or better yet, Baffle it too. With 8 feet or so of single wall pipe it cools enough not to need the damper as much. In your case what comes out of the stove is waste and you want to control that.
When you start it and hear a roar up the stack, close damper until sound stops. That's a good indication where it should be set. With baffle you can run it with damper farther open.


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## coaly (Jan 8, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> One thing is for sure, the draft is good enough that it revealed a possible problem with the front doors: with the draft caps fully closed, it sounds like the stove will draw a little air between the doors.


With proper draft, it is probably normal. I'm sure your draft is off the chart.
When you stop dumping all the heat outside, your basement will warm up.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 8, 2016)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I originally planned to use a damper for safety and it has been on order since before the holidays but I believe it will finally arrive next week.  I should be able to fit it in between the stove adapter and reducer.  Doing so will nicely bump the stove clearance to 36 inches from the back wall as planned.

I thought the reducer and 90 degree tee would impede flow enough to not need a damper but as coaly says, I think the draft is strong.  I think this points to a good, safe installation and I'd much rather start with too much draft than too little. 

It's easy to hear the draft but I can also watch it when I open the door.  It's strange to see such a big firebox with no baffle.  I don't want to neuter the stove capability too much but the baffle idea is on the radar.

With the setup the way it is now, the stove seems to have a sweet spot at around 550 with the flue at around 300-350.  It seems like I can sort of idle it there on one or two cedar (no other options this time of year in my area) splits.  I can see it is much easier to manage the stove and fuel after there is a good bed of coals.  When I did run the stove up to around 650, I will say one thing, it is a heat monster.


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## begreen (Jan 8, 2016)

The stove is old school. Baffling the stove will not neuter it, instead it will enhance its studly performance.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 10, 2016)

Yeah, the draft is awesome. I will need the damper for sure.

This installation and stove is not one to just stoke and walk away from early in the burn cycle.... it's way too easy with this draft to suck so much heat out the stack to overheat the flue, especially when flaming initial wood to make a coal bed. 

However, after a nice coal bed is established, this configuration is easy to manage. I've kept the stove around 550 for hours today and the stack about 350. If it drops too much, I add another split and since the stack is already up to temp, I can keep the fuel rate low and the stove steady.

75f all day in the basement with no insulation or sheetrock on slab walls (plan to do walls soon). Furnace upstairs hasn't come on in hours-the heat is radiating up the stairs and through the floor with no forced induction. It is 28f outside. 

Thanks to all who helped. I saved a ton of money yet got a great install and this old stove is as good as I thought it would be.

Wife likes it so much she said she wants one upstairs too...


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## coaly (Jan 10, 2016)

When you start it with kindling, you close the damper to slow it down leaving draft caps open a couple turns. This keeps more heat in the stove to get the larger pieces started. Closing the air slows it down, but when starting that is not the time to deprive it of air. Just close damper slowly until the roar stops and it will come up to temp. As it gets hotter, close down to a turn or so.
The  colder outside, the farther closed you will run it, since the colder it is outside, the larger the temp differential and the stronger the draft.
The damper doesn't change pipe temperature by holding heat back, it slows velocity in pipe and affects the stove by slowing air coming in.

The baffle puts most of that lost heat to the front top. Your rear top will be hotter than front now.  The baffle makes it much more controllable too.
You will notice a drastic smoke reduction even when starting it.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 11, 2016)

coaly said:


> When you start it with kindling, you close the damper to slow it down leaving draft caps open a couple turns. This keeps more heat in the stove to get the larger pieces started. Closing the air slows it down, but when starting that is not the time to deprive it of air. Just close damper slowly until the roar stops and it will come up to temp. As it gets hotter, close down to a turn or so.
> The  colder outside, the farther closed you will run it, since the colder it is outside, the larger the temp differential and the stronger the draft.
> The damper doesn't change pipe temperature by holding heat back, it slows velocity in pipe and affects the stove by slowing air coming in.
> 
> ...


 
Got my basement to 78 last night.  I haven't ducted air or moved any with fans but have just been experimenting with radiant heat.  I think it will get even warmer after I insulate the walls.  It is definitely heating the room above the stove as well.  I didn't stoke it full of fuel last night but I shut it down when a few splits were coaling.  I got up this morning and checked on the stove and it was still warm and the basement was 70.  What a great stove.

Off to study the baffle thread again...


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 17, 2016)

I experimented and took one chimney section off when inspecting recently. That makes 20 ft of pipe now. This slowed down draft a little more and I actually had hot coals this morning. Logs are lasting much longer in coal stage.


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## coaly (Jan 17, 2016)

You only need 3 feet above roof at penetration as long as top is 2 feet above anything 10 feet horizontal away. My single story installation is 15 feet from floor the stove is on to chimney top and I have to use a damper with single wall pipe into 6 inch insulated chimney.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 22, 2016)

A look at the Selkirk 8 inch damper:






Here is a look at the damper and reducer installed:



A look at the chase enclosure:



How does an old Fisher work?  Does it generate any heat?  I'd call it a heat monster:



It is very easy to heat the basement to 85f with no insulation work done yet.  I'm not pushing any air around with fans or vents but the heat does radiate up into the main floor and it's pretty easy to maintain 74-76 upstairs.

I do need to think and plan carefully if I want to move the air with the furnace fan and I'm not sure yet how to do that.  The furnace room ingests fresh air from an outside vent so the stove probably wants to draw that air toward it.  What I want to do is suck hot air from the stove into the furnace room (heat the furnace room into the 70s and let the fan draw air out of that room and send through the ducts).

Maybe I should provide fresh air behind the stove and put a return air vent in the furnace room wall (which is about 15ft away from the front of the stove....

What a stove...


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## bholler (Jan 22, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> What a stove...


yeah they make allot of heat but they also use a ton of wood


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## coaly (Jan 22, 2016)

Does the enclosure have an air vent at the bottom for cool air to enter? Does the outside of chimney pipe stay cooler now?


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## coaly (Jan 22, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> I do need to think and plan carefully if I want to move the air with the furnace fan and I'm not sure yet how to do that.  The furnace room ingests fresh air from an outside vent so the stove probably wants to draw that air toward it.  What I want to do is suck hot air from the stove into the furnace room (heat the furnace room into the 70s and let the fan draw air out of that room and send through the ducts).
> 
> Maybe I should provide fresh air behind the stove and put a return air vent in the furnace room wall (which is about 15ft away from the front of the stove...



Sounds like your gas or oil furnace is installed in a utility room with a fresh air intake for combustion air for the burner. This is separate from the area it heats. Each room it heats should (must) have a heat and return air duct. The blower simply circulates the air from each room, through the furnace where it is heated, (called a plenum) and back to each area it is heating. Mechanical code requires the intake of ducted system to be no more than 10 feet from the stove. If you change the intake for the blower to pull from the basement where the stove heat is and push it into each room upstairs, it has to return to the basement to be reheated. This circulation is not as good as a return in each room and no doors could be closed for return air to get back to basement. You would have to close all the air returns upstairs to allow it to pull only from basement, and not use that configuration with furnace in use. This would try to pressurize a room and not move heat into it. It can only heat a room it takes air from. Lots of reasons to discourage this type of use. Including the electric bill.

Much better to allow heat to rise naturally above stove through floor vents, (code now requires self closing fire door in vent between floors) and as hot air rises to ceiling upstairs it drops as it cools. The return air vent or preferably stairway should be on the other end of home to allow circulation of air to migrate through home and drop back down to be reheated. Cool air will fall like a waterfall down steps toward the stove to be reheated. Not all floor plans are desirable for this type circulation, so fans or blowers may be needed to help move air. Always move it in direction of gravity flow (hot up, cold down) and not against the natural flow. It's easier to blow heat into the basement at the opposite end of stove and allow hot air to naturally rise into the lower pressure area upstairs you are creating. It already wants to go in that direction, you're just helping it along.

If there is a vent on the door going into the utility room with furnace, the wood stove will use the outside intake through the furnace room for fresh air. If there is no vent on the door, installing one is an easy way for a good fresh air intake for the wood stove if the basement is relatively tight.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 22, 2016)

bholler said:


> yeah they make allot of heat but they also use a ton of wood



Funny you say that. Even if I close the damper and slow it down, it still does eat wood. Wish I had some hardwood to try during night burns.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 22, 2016)

coaly said:


> Does the enclosure have an air vent at the bottom for cool air to enter? Does the outside of chimney pipe stay cooler now?



I have the other matching vent, just haven't cut it in yet. I will install a magnetic thermometer on the pipe just behind a vent but am not sure how hot it gets in there lately...


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## bholler (Jan 22, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> Funny you say that. Even if I close the damper and slow it down, it still does eat wood. Wish I had some hardwood to try during night burns.


I know they do I have run a few they are tanks.  But you will get tired of cutting wood for that beast quickly.


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 23, 2016)

bholler said:


> I know they do I have run a few they are tanks.  But you will get tired of cutting wood for that beast quickly.



The good news is that I can choose how and when to use it, since I have a good natural gas furnace.... in talking with people, it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...


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## coaly (Jan 23, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> The good news is that I can choose how and when to use it, since I have a good natural gas furnace.... in talking with people, it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...



At least you have an efficient chimney that won't eat wood like an 8. You could double those numbers here.

I burned 7.5 last year in the Kitchen Queen and my neighbors Papa burning 24/7 used about 12 as his only heat source for 1500 down, 1500 up. He is a mason by trade, gets wood free and won't put the money into a liner to save tons of work.


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## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

ponderosa77 said:


> it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...


You can burn way more than that I burn 4 to 5 in my stove.  I would be 7 or 8 in an old fisher


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## ponderosa77 (Jan 23, 2016)

bholler said:


> You can burn way more than that I burn 4 to 5 in my stove.  I would be 7 or 8 in an old fisher



You guys are right. I think my father in-law burns about 7 in his XL. 

The chimney and damper do help. I restarted the fire this morning from coals. The damper is a nice  addition to slow down the burn. 

I'm going to try and cut at least 4 or 5 cords this year.


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