# Burning coal in fireplace



## squarecube (Jan 23, 2008)

Is it possible to burn coal (antrhacite) in a fireplace using the proper grate? 

I just had my first coal fire in my new furnace (it uses oil, wood, or coal) and really liked the looks of the coal with the blue flames and the steady red glow.


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## berlin (Jan 23, 2008)

it is possible, you will need a heavy, small grate, with some ability to shake the ash, usually the grate will be bolted into the back of the firebox about 12" from the bottom of the fireplace with a lever coming out the right side of the fireplace to rock the grate back and forth and drop ash from time to time. what i described is common for bituminous burning in open fires and should allow anthricite to burn decently as well, the key is having the grate high enough from the bottom to allow sufficient underfire air through the coal bed. good luck.


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## hookspacken (Jan 23, 2008)

I believe that coal emits a lot of Carbon monoxide when it burns, I wouldnt recommend burning it in anything bu an airtight stove.


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## webbie (Jan 23, 2008)

Extremely difficult to burn hard coal - maybe impossible. You must force underfire air to have a decent hard coal fire.

No one even knew how to ignite hard coal until the 1800's - that's how hard it was to learn.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Anthracite_History/


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## berlin (Jan 23, 2008)

"I believe that coal emits a lot of Carbon monoxide when it burns, I wouldnt recommend burning it in anything but an airtight stove."

nonsense. any hydrocarbon emits CO when it burns in otherwise than perfect conditions; if you are burning coal or any fuel in an appliance, fireplace or otherwise that vents outside it won't be a problem. where do people get this nonsense from??


"Extremely difficult to burn hard coal - maybe impossible. You must force underfire air to have a decent hard coal fire"

very true, i didn't mention this in my last post, but definately not something you'd want to try and do everyday, but i have got anthricite to burn in a fireplace, it took a lot of playing around, and possibly cheating ( i started the fire w/ bituminous, then added anthricite). if he's going to do it just for fun good luck on your endevor, however, if you plan on doing this as an evening ritual then Web is absolutely right, it's going to be an almost impossible PITA to achieve. if you want to burn coal in your fireplace regularly try using bituminous, its extreemely cheap around $50-$60 for nut and burns easily and pleasantly in a fireplace as long as the grate is elevated as i mentioned above, additionally you can start it quickly using those little wax/sawdust starter logs available at homedepot/lowes/your local hardware store.


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## webbie (Jan 23, 2008)

Hard coal kills a number of people, and sends lots of other to the hospital each year. This is not just because it produces the CO (like other fuels, as you note), BUT because the CO in hard coal is not mixed with as many other agents (which usually smell bad).

Example....a backed up wood fire would usually "warn" you for a long time before hand, because of the smoke. But backed up coal units do not warn. So I think that is the point being made. Anyone with a coal stove should have at least one (or possibly more) CO detectors.

Yes, you might say the same about gas, but gas appliances have controls on them which detect spillage, coal fires do not (hand fired).


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## Hogwildz (Jan 23, 2008)

I have seen a few old fireplaces that burn coal. Most the ones I saw were in Europe. But I myself would not burn coal in a fireplace not set up for it. Not to mention although wood in a fireplace does create dust etc. Coal dust will leave a black soot everywhere throughout your home. My parents had a coal burning furnace and their home had alot of coal dust everywhere. Even in the attic. Of course I don't claim to know tons about coal burning. But doesn't coal need like air fed or injected from underneath to burn good & hot?


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## ansehnlich1 (Jan 23, 2008)

In parts of West Virginia some coal mines had housing for the miners, and I've been to 'em houses, and seen regular old fireplaces that the miners would burn coal in. Soft coal only though, Bituminous........... never heard of them old coal miners trying to burn anthracite in a fireplace, bad idea, I don't care what anybody says.


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## Hubjeep (Jan 23, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> Extremely difficult to burn hard coal - maybe impossible.



X2

It sounded like a good idea at first and a friend dropped off a couple 5 gallon pails of coal, I made it half way through one and gave up.  It takes a TON of heat to get it going, and you can only add a very little at a time or it smothers.


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## mikeyny (Jan 23, 2008)

glad to hear you are still alive and breathing. Coal can be deadly if you don't know what you are doing.

                                                  Mike


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## berlin (Jan 24, 2008)

"Coal dust will leave a black soot everywhere throughout your home."

not  true; most people who burn coal do not have black coal dust throughout their home, it's all in the way that it's handled, wetting it before shevoling it in or having a top loading stove where one just dumps a bucket in eliminates any trace of dust. also washed coal will substantially reduce the amount of dust/fines in the coal before it ever reaches your home. 

"glad to hear you are still alive and breathing. Coal can be deadly if you don’t know what you are doing"

c'mon people, really? chit, crossing the street can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and so can heating with wood gas, getting up in the morning or anything else. while web does make a good point about the relative lack of smell compared to other fuels, there is still a sulfurous smell present in all but the latest stages of burning hard coal.

i really have no problem with people posting about their own experiences, or otherwise advising the poster, but scaring people based on what someone's mother's brother's uncle said is no way to advise the OP.


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## Detector$ (Jan 24, 2008)

Where would one go to buy coal in a state....like NC?
Supposed I bought a freestanding coal stove like a Morso or Vermont Castings.....


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## Hogwildz (Jan 24, 2008)

berlin said:
			
		

> "Coal dust will leave a black soot everywhere throughout your home."
> 
> not  true; most people who burn coal do not have black coal dust throughout their home, it's all in the way that it's handled, wetting it before shevoling it in or having a top loading stove where one just dumps a bucket in eliminates any trace of dust. also washed coal will substantially reduce the amount of dust/fines in the coal before it ever reaches your home.
> 
> ...



Obviously your partial to burning coal, which is fine. I have never heard of wetting coal before putting it in stove/furnace etc.
But I can't say it isn't realistic or proper either. I can say, not from guessing but from actual observation, that while maybe with a stove burning coal, you may not get the dust all over. But folks round here use coal furnaces and A). Have a ton or two delivered and chuted down into their basement bin. B). Aren't about to hose the whole bin down . C). Many of these furnaces use augers, worm drives etc. to auto feed the coal into the furnace, which between the bin & the auger can kick up dust also. D). Also some of these have forced air blowers  to distribute the heated air, again even with the best filter will distribute even more coal dust throughout the home. 
Not knocking coal, or saying its no good. But lets be honest about it, it can be dirty.
Now other relatives of mine use coal, but to heat a boiler, while the basements are still coal dusted, the rest of the house isn't as bad because they are using hot water baseboard or radiators to distribute the heat.  But there is still a small amount that is airborn. and settles around. Not sure where your getting your "washed" coal, but here in my parts of PA., ain't no coal thats washed. And if your getting PA. coal delivered from PA. to NY, even if washed, how much is going to crumble and break of during the vibration & shifting during truck or rail delivery to your area? Maybe its "washed" by your supplier, that I can't say. But as much as your right for uneducated folks not to scare others, its just as wrong to tell the same folks that its clean and safe as anything else. In some cases yes, in some no. IMO, there is less user error leeway with coal. And even if you dump a bucket of coal in a top loader, I guarantee you theres coal dust in the air. Is it deadly, maybe not. But sure ain't great for lungs. 
Lets be real, if coal which was used for many, many years especially in PA. and my area in particular, is so great. Why did so many people switch to other forms of heating? Certainly not because coal pricing was/is more expensive than electric, propane, gas, etc. Its because it can be dirty more often than not, and because of health reason more often than not. I have relatives that used it for many years with related health problems. Ive seen what it can do, and there is a reason its not as popular anymore. Thats a fact that can't be dismissed. Not to say you will/do have a problem, but others have. Coal round here is about 120 a ton, when my parents changed from it after burning for years with it, it was 90 a ton last they bought it. That was about in the later 90's. Coal hasn't gone up much as other fuels have. Its not in the demand it used to be in. And theres a reason for that.
Burn all you want, its your right, and your choice. If others want to burn it, more power to them. But don't assume someone that doesn't view coal usage same as you, is merely shooting uninformed advice (although I am sure it does happen as with anything else). Nothing wrong with a person interested in possibly using coal, wood or anything else, getting advice on both the good & bad about using any one of them.

My folks had their coal furnace in their basement, I saw myself, the dust that made its way all the way up into the second story attic of another wing of the house.
Is it cheap? Yes. Can it be dirty? Yes. Burn what you will, and health be with you.


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## berlin (Jan 24, 2008)

"But folks round here use coal furnaces and A). Have a ton or two delivered and chuted down into their basement bin. B). Aren’t about to hose the whole bin down . C). Many of these furnaces use augers, worm drives etc. to auto feed the coal into the furnace, which between the bin & the auger can kick up dust also. D). Also some of these have forced air blowers to distribute the heated air, again even with the best filter will distribute even more coal dust throughout the home."

I have a fairly vast knowledge of the workings of stokers, of many types including underfed auger. quite simply if care is taken, and the equiptment is maintained there does not have to be ANY dust. period.

"I have never heard of wetting coal before putting it in stove/furnace etc. But I can’t say it isn’t realistic or proper either"

oiling, wetting and/or washing coal is a common practice and bagged anthracite is shipped quite wet. the process of wetting coal by the end user for dust control during handling is also commonplace, although, as with everything i'm sure there are people who have been burning coal for ages that do not.

"Not knocking coal, or saying its no good. But lets be honest about it, it can be dirty"

absolutely true, i agree, it CAN be dirty but not by any stretch does it HAVE to be!

"Not sure where your getting your “washed” coal, but here in my parts of PA., ain’t no coal thats washed."

you live in NEPA. I know for a fact that washed coal is available in your area.

"Not sure where your getting your “washed” coal, but here in my parts of PA., ain’t no coal thats washed. And if your getting PA. coal delivered from PA. to NY, even if washed, how much is going to crumble and break of during the vibration & shifting during truck or rail delivery to your area? Maybe its “washed” by your supplier, that I can’t say."

I'm not sure where your getting your assumptions about what i burn or how i transport it and what that has to do with my experience with washed coal? i burn western pa bituminous, and transport it myself, not washed fyi; however you are correct transportation does liberate fines from coal.

"But as much as your right for uneducated folks not to scare others, its just as wrong to tell the same folks that its clean and safe as anything else"

It can, with the proper equiptment and procedures be as clean and safe as anything else. If you're ever in Buffalo, feel free to stop by and you can check my house with a white glove if you wish... and i burn coal that has an even worse rep. than anthracite.

"And even if you dump a bucket of coal in a top loader, I guarantee you theres coal dust in the air. Is it deadly, maybe not. But sure ain’t great for lungs."

No, there is not. having a top loader with a proper chimney draft there will be NO dust, the fines are sucked into the stove.

"Lets be real, if coal which was used for many, many years especially in PA. and my area in particular, is so great. Why did so many people switch to other forms of heating? Certainly not because coal pricing was/is more expensive than electric, propane, gas, etc. Its because it can be dirty more often than not, and because of health reason more often than not. I have relatives that used it for many years with related health problems. Ive seen what it can do, and there is a reason its not as popular anymore. Thats a fact that can’t be dismissed. Not to say you will/do have a problem, but others have. Coal round here is about 120 a ton, when my parents changed from it after burning for years with it, it was 90 a ton last they bought it. That was about in the later 90’s. Coal hasn’t gone up much as other fuels have. Its not in the demand it used to be in. And theres a reason for that."

the reason people switch away from coal is due the the ease with which other fuels heat the home; i have never said it isn't more work, but if care is taken there doesn't have to be one bit of coaldust in the home. 

"Burn all you want, its your right, and your choice. If others want to burn it, more power to them. But don’t assume someone that doesn’t view coal usage same as you, is merely shooting uninformed advice (although I am sure it does happen as with anything else). Nothing wrong with a person interested in possibly using coal, wood or anything else, getting advice on both the good & bad about using any one of them."

that's fine, i'm just here to make sure that the "Bad" about using it is accurate.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 24, 2008)

Berlin,
what are your burning your coal in? Stove, furnace?


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## swestall (Jan 24, 2008)

Burn wood in the fireplace, it is prettier and safer because that is what the fireplace was designed to burn....


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## hookspacken (Jan 24, 2008)

Berlin, Chill out....When I said "I believe" that meant that "I THINK....ie: possibly......" I dont claim to be all knowing, just trying to help a bit.
 I didnt know you were the Coal Sergent in charge, didnt mean to challenge your authority.
 From now on, maybe Web should direct all coal questions to you directly. Seems like you are going to pick whatever someone else thinks apart anyway. Please excuse me for "thinking" I will return to my corner and sit quietly now......


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## berlin (Jan 24, 2008)

easy, killer.

i have no problem with anyone thinking, but i don't like misinforming people about a heat source that is already very misunderstood.


I have two bituminous specific stoves of my own design, one is used 99% of the time the other for backup.  My main stove is top loading and i wouldn't have it any other way, dump a bucket in, the fines are sucked into the stove by the draft and the bucket goes next to the stove for the next trip outside to the coal bin.


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## crazy_dan (Jan 24, 2008)

When I lived in MT I Had a wood/coal stove and never had an ash problem, of course it was oil soaked so it was oily which was probably just as bad.
I burned anthracite all the time. Boy did it throw the heat.


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## dumbodog00 (Jan 24, 2008)

While on the subject of coal, does anyone know how the grading system works?  What are the numbers associated wih it and which is better?  I know that 6 is better than 5, but that is about it.  Any insight would be helpful!


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## 894yard (Feb 6, 2008)

This is my first post, here or anywhere. Thanks to the advise here (Boiler area I believe) I became a reliable coal burner in under a week (though I won't mention those first few mornings...) Now that I know what I'm doing, I DON'T EVER WANT TO BRING ANOTHER LOG INTO MY HOUSE. Maybe it's the novelty, but I suspect I'm a coal convert for life.  I too have a question and the topic here is right on.

I live in NEPA and we get anthracite here that I would never even dream of trying to burn in a basket or anything less than a proper coal appliance. I have an old Consolodated Dutchwest "Federal Airtight" which, until my anthracite-enlightenment, burned years of firewood (free from my tree service endeavors). It does a great job downstairs, now even better with coal, but I always either burned wood upstairs in the fireplace, or lately just turned the electric thermostat and filled every type of humidifier known to man to keep my family from turning into raisins.

Like I said, I am sick of lugging wood up those 14 stairs. My assumption was that I would need an insert stove or to put a free-standing stove in front of the hearth and obviously line the flue with what I believe is known as flex-pipe to whatever diameter the appliance called for.

My question (finally): is there a fairly low-frills, hand-fed, ugly for all I care, small coal appliance that I can have inserted in order to get some of that deep coal eminence upstairs? I keep thinking of those M 1941 army tent heaters with the 4" flue that burned wood or coal with the shaker grate. I wouldn't expect that exact heater to last after much daily use, but something cast iron and little and boxy would suffice if made to be inserted into a fireplace. But is there something like that? If anyone here knows of something I can insert, burn nut/stove coal in, and not spend 1000 dollars on, please fill me in.


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## jebatty (Feb 6, 2008)

Regarding dust in the house: it's been my opinion that much, not all, of the dust which is claimed to come from any heat source other than forced air is ambient, airborne dust simply settling where fingers like to draw pictures. Almost all forced air heating appliances have air filters which remove much of the ambient dust, hence less dust.

The only semi-factual basis for this opinion is that we have dust in the house during the heating season and we heat with a wood stove in the living room, and during the non-heating season we open windows and we have dust in the house.

BTW, there also is lots of dust outside which a good rain from time to time keeps in check.


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## Detector$ (Feb 6, 2008)

The little Morso 1410 says it can burn coal. Probably have to use the lower damper adjuster and lock out the top. (By default, the top is used and the bottom one is locked). Vermont Castings has a small coal stove also. Curious myself.....


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## billb3 (Feb 6, 2008)

I thought Morso had two version of thier stoves one that burned wood, one that burned coal. You bought the one you wanted.
I'm  probably very wrong.


My parents had a coal stove when I was a kid grandparents, too.

Both stoves had to be shovel fed.
Huge piles of coal in basement bins.
No dust.
They also had chicken barns with coal heaters for the chicks. Also shovel fed. Not too much unlike pellet hoppers, just with no augers.
Huge  arm sticking out that controlled the air intake and burn.
I know there was a good sized pile of ash, because I got rid of it many years after the barns were torn down, a wheelbarrow full at a time . IIRC, the unburned coal sat right next to that ash pile, outside.
I don't remember it being dirty nor dusty.

Just a daily pain in the a$$.

Oil and propane ended those chores.


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## polaris (Feb 6, 2008)

I have a pretty decent coal seam near the top of the mt. behind the house. It is exposed and I take a pick axe and dig some out, put it in the Mule and drive it down to the barn. I burn it in an old stove and other than being tough to get going I like it. It burns real hot and lasts a long time. This is not real high quality stuff(lots of slate and slag) It leaves a lot of hard junk behind after you burn it. A whole lot of folks in coal country burn coal in regular old stone or brick fireplaces. I really don't know how safe it is though. It would seem if it were that unsafe you would here about people succomming to co2 on the news, but who knows?
    Joe


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## 894yard (Feb 6, 2008)

Detector$: thanks for the input, I'll investigate the Morso locally, my first Google showed almost all UK and AU stores.  The Morso web site doesn't admit that the 1410 will burn coal, but the 1440 does.  They are just my size.  Thanks!

To chime in on the dust, I may only be on week 2 of coal burning, but I buy it bagged at the local Ace Hardware - it's Blaschak Nut Anthacite 82-86% carbon ($6/40#).  It is almost always damp in the bag, I don't know about washed or anything, I presume it's the fact that it's stored outside on the pallets and the bags have little holes poked through from the coal.  The dust so far is only from the bucket to the door of the stove (few inches) and doesn't compare to the sawdust, bark, and smoke-ash that burning wood has always produced.

When the F-250 comes out of the shop with a new fuel pump I get to switch to bulk coal at the yard about 25 minutes away and about 1/4 the price.  I'll let you know how the mess compares to the bags.

Today, it's almost 60 degrees out already.  I let my coal die down yesterday afternoon when I heard that forecast.  Some goofy weather we're having!


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## Detector$ (Feb 7, 2008)

I actually think the 1410 and 1440 are the same basic stove. The 1410 is radiant and has open legs, where the 1440 is convection with its doublewall sides and legs.
I saw a 1410 in at a dealer in KY and looked closely at it. It's pretty cool for small areas and am thinking of getting one to heat the bonus room above our detached garage. Since coal needs to burn with air entering from the bottom through the coals, both stoves have a lower screw-type air adjustment. However, the store model set up for wood burning had a lock nut on the lower knob and a working top knob. I think all you have to do to set it up for coal is to switch the nut from the bottom to the top , so that air enters from below the coals. Both have the riddling/shaker grate.

No coal in NC that I'm aware of, but the sheer curiosity of heating with it would probably make me try it at least once if I had a stove that could burn it.
 If you buy one and do burn coal in it. Take some pics and let me know what you think. It might make a good companion stove to the one were going to buy for our main house.


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## jebatty (Feb 7, 2008)

It's easy to understand the mystique of burning coal, like relearning a lost skill. Yet, coal always will have at least two major downfalls in the climate change world -- it is a fossil fuel which adds to CO2 in the atmosphere and it is not a sustainable fuel. Heating with coal is a microcosm of why the world cannot continue to build coal fired generating plants. Wood burning has neither of these downfalls -- it does not add to net CO2 and it is sustainable. And the wood gassification boilers, especially as tweaked by participants in the Boiler Room, now also are achieving levels of efficiency which rival many other heating appliances.


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## 894yard (Feb 7, 2008)

detector$: Comparing the Morso, 1410 looks undeniably designed and suited to burn coal, but Morso is not billing it that way. It is just not UL listed to burn anything but wood, or at least the newest models aren't. It wouldn't surprise me if it used to be and just missed some sort of cut-off. I mean, you don't put riddler grates in wood-only appliances, do you?

I want radiant heat. I use a thermostatically controlled duct to pump the heat from the peak of the cathedral where the fireplace is and into the bedrooms down the hall. I am pretty sure I'd lose heat (at the ceiling) with a convection stove, though the room with the stove might be more uniform.

I would be willing to bet that the convection effect keeps the 1440 at a lower temperature which Morso (or maybe the UL) is more willing to accept the liability for these days. Just a guess though.

I also found a stove co. in NWPA who builds a nice hand fed insert**, but they need 5-8 weeks lead time as they build them per order and won't ship them, they only install it personally or sell them from the storefront. I respect that, but I need someone in nEpa who can do the same thing.

If I am able to find a used 1410 with a UL plate that designates coal, I'll probably get it. If that is the case, I'll take pics galore! I am afraid I may be doomed to eBay, Craig's list or the local Paper Shop to get the type of appliance that I want at a price I'm willing to pay.

jebatty: I don't know exactly how much home-heat coal exhaust impacts the environment when added up, but something tells me that one coal-fired electricity plant here in PA probably is greater than the total of homes heating with coal these days. I understand where the trend is, and why for that matter, but that just makes me feel even better about using coal. Wouldn't it be a shame for mankind to be finished with this planet before we've responsibly used up the fuels that are here for us to use. Just my opinion, they aren't doing anyone much good in the ground. I fear I've been sucked off topic. I digress.

** Keystoker stove, they say it's UL 1482 compliant - cjshomedecor.com for anyone reading who might be interrested.


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