# Santa: real or make believe?



## Delta-T (Nov 21, 2013)

SO, tis the seasona nd all that business, and I was approached by my fiend/bandmate concerning the whole "Santa" thing. We have always promoted the "idea" of Santa, and all that Xmas spirit stuff. We have always met the question "is Santa real, or are you guys Santa" with..."Well, what do you think?" Our son, 10yrs, I'm sure has just figured out to "play along" and doesn't really talk about it anymore. We plan on always having gifts from Santa under the tree, just as my mom always seems to have gifts for me from Santa, that he must have mistakenly delivered to her house.....weird right? I know. My bandmate plans on blowing the whole thing up and telling his daughters its all a lie. How have others dealt with this situation? He seems all distraught and panicked about how they're gonna feel about being deceived for so long. Kinda funny to me, be I'm odd like that.


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 21, 2013)

Most people tend to look at it differently. However, I still remember my childhood and the idea of Santa Claus. I believed but then found it to be a fairy tale but my little mind took it perhaps wrong but to me it gave the impression that adults could not be trusted because they all lied to me. It also reminds me of that one day we were out looking for Easter eggs that the bunny supposedly left. I had the same experience. I suddenly thought, "It is not rabbits that lay eggs you fools! Chickens lay eggs." So, another lie. So, my little mind may have been warped but I surely remember being both disappointed and mad. Still everyone must approach the situation as they see fit.


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

My mom's penmanship was excellent and distinctive. It was pretty obvious who santa was early on. But that's ok. We still tag some gifts "From Santa" just for the tradition.


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## fossil (Nov 21, 2013)

Are you saying Santa Claus isn't real?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 21, 2013)

Me and my sister didn't buy it from the get go. But had fun with it letting Mom and Dad do the deed. Unless the kids have never been to school or on the internet in their life, they know.


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## Stax (Nov 21, 2013)

Santa Lives!


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 22, 2013)

My oldest is 11, and he swears that he saw the easter bunny shadow a few weeks ago. Santa lives lol


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## Ehouse (Nov 22, 2013)

"Yes, Virginia...."


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## firebroad (Nov 22, 2013)

When mine was little, it occurred to us that other children, and grownups (especially grownups) were going to insist on the myth.  Our approach was to have fun with the Santa Claus notion, never insisting that this was a real person, but the spirit of giving.  Thus, "Santa" showed up on the appropriate night, but it was understood that "Santa" was make believe, and the gifts were from loved ones.  Thus, even a child could be "Santa". 
It worked for us; our daughter told me once that she sort of believed for a while, even though she knew it was all in fun.  I think I believe a lot of things like that today, and I am 60.


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## woodgeek (Nov 22, 2013)

This past Easter, my wife and I woke up to find that the Easter Bunny had also left us a basket!  

Our youngest (10yo) told us a story of catching a glimpse of the Big Bunny while she was taking a potty break that evening.

I used to be a skeptic about all this, now I'm a believer!


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## briansol (Nov 22, 2013)

Part of having a good memory is that I rarely forget things that I remember.  lol  

I remember when I was a boy and figured it out.  I was about 8 (and for the record, I've always been ahead of the curve, so 9 or 10 is probably the average age point where you are right now).  It was close to midnight and I was awoken by a noise... I wandered out into the hallway and saw the attic stairs were pulled down.  Turns out the parents where going in the attic (the secret hiding place for all things santa) to get the stuff down for under the tree.   I had my suspicions for a few years at this point in time already but couldn't prove it.   The handwriting on the to/from tags were the first tip.  "Santa writes just like dad!"  (another downfall-  ocd-like powers of observation).  Catching them in the act kind of sucked for them looking back at it.   I was a bit of a punk about it and was all excited that I solved the mystery.  It probably hurt them to see me rejoice that I figured it out a little bit.  We had a little talk and they tried to dumb it down for me saying about how Santa can't possibly visit everyone in one night and that 'he' asks parents to help spread his message.   

Maybe that's the best approach.   Don't kill the IDEA of what Santa is/about.  Kill the fiction that there's a guy who pilots flying reindeer.  I think 10 is more than old enough to understand that Christmas is about a message and family, not gifts and make-believe icons.


I talked about this with my ex gf when we were considering a full run of it and kids/etc... (that's a whole other website.. lol)  and she was very against lying to her kids and didn't want to even introduce them to the idea of Santa at all.  I struggle with it.   I understand the point of view and that it's basically lying to your kids.   But it's also something that kids like.   You don't want your kid to be the only one in school who got nothing from Santa that year....    I think for my kids should I have them some day, I think I will introduce the idea of santa, but explain to them that it is one big metaphor.    

And then I have to try to explain what a methaphor is without using like/as  

lol


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## woodgeek (Nov 22, 2013)

A couple years ago, my oldest says 'I _know_ who the Tooth Fairy is!'.  I'm all interested and ask her to to tell me.... 

She says "Dad, you wouldn't _believe me_ if I told you!"


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## Paulywalnut (Nov 23, 2013)

Why tell the kids Santa is not real. The whole spirit of giving to others should be the focus. It gives little guys something to look forward to. They figure it out pretty quick. There's always plenty of talk about it in first and second grade I'll bet.


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## Gunny (Nov 23, 2013)

Well my 7 yr old asked me the same question last year.  I, of course, responded with "what do you think"?  This way I was not responsible for letting the cat out of the bag.  Also gave her something to think about.  No harm in letting the story play out.  Kids now a days grow up too fast anyway so if I can keep it going, so be it.  I just can't seem to tell her that there is no magical extra large being in the Marine Corps that keeps sending her play buddy off to some far away place.  I guess that is part of the reason I am retiring.  Pull down attic steps to hide presents for Christmas.  Classic Brian, Classic!


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Nov 24, 2013)

When I told my kiddo there were tears.  He cried a bit too.


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## Pdesjr (Nov 25, 2013)

Santa rules.But then again my wife calls me Clark W Griswald.Let the decorating begin


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## Adios Pantalones (Nov 25, 2013)

I would fuse Santa and Satan. That way you can keep the "better be good" sentiment, and reduce the number of mythical beings by 1.

(Next, fuse that being with Peyton Manning, producing Satan Manning. The world is a complicated place, consolidation will make life easier for a kid)


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## Ehouse (Nov 25, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> I would fuse Santa and Satan. That way you can keep the "better be good" sentiment, and reduce the number of mythical beings by 1.
> 
> (Next, fuse that being with Peyton Manning, producing Satan Manning. The world is a complicated place, consolidation will make life easier for a kid)



Pfc.Satan Manning, and his lovely wife Carol Channing Manning


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## Swedishchef (Nov 25, 2013)

My oldest is 3 and as long as he believes, it's game on for me!

I personally have not seen anyone seeking counseling because for the first 6-9 years of the lives they thought jolly old St Nick was coming down a chimney and leaving presents....


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## BrotherBart (Nov 25, 2013)

We were pretty suspicious that Santa wanted buttermilk and cornbread under the tree. Dad's favorite.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 25, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> We were pretty suspicious that Santa wanted buttermilk and cornbread under the tree. Dad's favorite.


 
It amazes me: at my grandmother's house we would be 14-16 people during the Holidays. The Manger (which was quite a piece) was put together in the fireplace. And every year, Santa slammed down on it breaking it to pieces. Christmas day we spent about 1 hour using a glue gun and putting everything together. One year in my letter to Santa I wrote " please don't break baby Jesus' home".


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## firebroad (Nov 26, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> It amazes me: at my grandmother's house we would be 14-16 people during the Holidays. The Manger (which was quite a piece) was put together in the fireplace. And every year, Santa slammed down on it breaking it to pieces. Christmas day we spent about 1 hour using a glue gun and putting everything together. One year in my letter to Santa I wrote " please don't break baby Jesus' home".


Busting up the creche--that's kind of a an irreverent way of reinforcing a belief in Santa Claus.


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## Doug MacIVER (Nov 26, 2013)

all I know is Santa has always brought me everything I've ever needed. or for that fact, wanted. anyone of you here would be hard pressed to convince me that i'm not already in heaven. have a day  and Happy Thanksgiving


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## Swedishchef (Nov 26, 2013)

firebroad said:


> Busting up the creche--that's kind of a an irreverent way of reinforcing a belief in Santa Claus.


 
Don't worry, we also went to mass 3 times over the Holidays.


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## gzecc (Nov 28, 2013)

As they get older, tell them some people don't believe, some do believe in the spirit of Santa.  Not unlike religion, we believe what we can justify. Santa is only good. There are no santa terrorists.


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## begreen (Nov 28, 2013)

Our current version of Santa Claus is a relatively new 19th century invention. The old St. Nick was not always so benevolent. Listen again to the words of Santa Claus is coming to town.

Krampus lives! Merry Krampusnacht!




http://www.krampus.com/who-is-krampus.php

The European practice of _mummery_ during the winter solstice season can be traced back tens of thousands of years. Villagers across the continent dress up as animals, wild-men and mythic figures to parade and perform humorous plays. This ancient guising and masking tradition continues to this day as the primary source for our modern Halloween with its costumes, trick-or-treat, and pagan symbolism. Among the most common figures in these folk rituals were Old Man Winter and the horned Goat-Man — archetypes now found in the forms of Saint Nick/Santa Claus, and the Devil (‘Old Nick’), aka _Krampus_.

In 19th century New York City an American St. Nick emerged in the form of Santa Claus. Although based on the Dutch Saint Nicholas, Santa incorporated more elements from pagan winter solstice customs. He relinquished his white bishop garb for a red suit, traded his horse and staff for a sleigh and reindeer, and moved his franchise to Christmas Eve.





Santa also tried to take over the dark companion’s job of punishing the naughty, but his New World temperament was apparently unsuited for the task. As Santa neglected and abandoned his punishing duties, American kids lost all fear of Santa and his lumps of coal. Thankfully, in the 21st century, Krampus has arrived in this land of spoiled and dissatisfied children to pick up the slack.


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## Doug MacIVER (Nov 28, 2013)

begreen said:


> Our current version of Santa Claus is a relatively new 19th century invention. The old St. Nick was not always so benevolent. Listen again to the words of Santa Claus is coming to town.
> 
> Krampus lives! Merry Krampus Nacht!
> 
> ...


thsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


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## firebroad (Nov 29, 2013)

Then there is this guy...


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## acesneights1 (Nov 30, 2013)

Funny this came up. I am at this point with my 8 yr old. I think he has his doubts now. I have not pushed it.
For the record I think it's good and fun for kids to believe in Santa. I have no regrets. I still wish him to be real...
I want that Deuce and a half...I have been a good boy...


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## Gunny (Dec 1, 2013)

firebroad said:


> Then there is this guy...


That guy is the BEST!  For the adults, not the kids.  Awesome


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## osagebow (Dec 2, 2013)

I think it's over here - Busted my 9 and 11 year old boys on a covert gift finding mission. Overheard the 9 year old briefing his brother on suspicious trash bags in the fuse closet.  I blithley called out to them to clean up the room. Then I  moved the goods, and hung out in the basement fuse closet waiting for the ninjas to show up.

They had no exit plan.


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## rideau (Dec 2, 2013)

Narnia, Fairy tales, The Princess and Curdie,  Alice in Wonderland, Hugh Pine, Winnie the Pooh, Little Bear, Blueberries for Sal, The Just So Stories, Ferdinand, The Wind in the Willows, Goodnight Moon, Mole and Troll Trim the Tree and hundreds of others.  I suppose some of you disapprove of them too.  Where is the magic of childhood, the room for a child's imagination to soar?  Christmas and Santa can be a wonderful holiday and tradition, depends what you do with it, just as everything else in life.  My grandfather claimed that learning there was no Santa was the worst thing that happened to him.  Since he served in the trenches in WWI,  I figure Santa must have been pretty terrific for him for some years.  My father, an only child, loved Christmas and playing Santa for the children's floors at Memorial SKCC, loved spending Christmas day with us.  13 of us, little money, we had a marvelous month preparing for Christmas.  My children have some pretty memorable tales to tell about trekking home through the woods with our chosen tree, horse drawn sleigh rides with Mr. Cheatham (they'd hear the sleigh bells and run down the road to meet him.  He had blankets and a heater that kept them warm on the colder days.)  One of their favorite stories is the day they were all three home for Christmas as adults.  They did a stocking for me.  It was glorious.  Had the most amazing things in it...all things I loved and would truly enjoy using.  The three of them kept watching me, rapt expressions on their faces, as I took one gift after another out of the stocking.    Then they exploded with laughter.  They had found a shopping bag with my previous year's stocking, put together by two of my sisters, complete with all its contents, and had simply restuffed the stocking. 

 I always found that their favorite presents as children were the ones that were bought almost as a afterthought and cost very little.  (That is, until the PC Jr came along...)

Things are what you make them, children benefit from fantasy and imagination, love and experience, time spent with them. 

I learned about Santa when classmates in grade school were joking amongst themselves about a fellow classmate who still believed in Santa.  I was mildly shocked, but didn't let on, never told any siblings, and cheerfully kept the fantasy up at home for parents and neighbors and siblings.  Christmas was always wonderful, magical, amazing.  The  house preparations, the preparatory cooking of cookies, Christmas cake and pudding, pies, the gifts we made for others, the meals, the lights around the neighborhood, the tree, the cards to and from relatives and friends, the holly from an Aunt in BC, the crèche at home and at church, the advent wreath and bible passages, wrapping presents, Christmas mass and Christmas carols, Boxing Day, our annual New Year's Eve party, New Year's Day with flaming Christmas pudding, Epiphany when the tree came down.....If we were lucky (just outside NYC) snow and skating as well. 

We loved The Night Before Christmas, and didn't mind Dicken's Christmas Carol.  For years my sister and I would watch the light on the top of the Empire State building, which we could see from the top floor of our home, convinced it was Santa's sleigh.  The first year we lived in the home, my parents had to go to bed with us to get us away from the window and to sleep. 

We were not angels.  One year an aunt sent $25.00 for Christmas.  The money was very welcome.  My parents checked to see we had enough food, then bought us each one present.  We found them and opened them before Christmas.  I have no recollection of what happened to us, but I was certainly told the tale in later years. 

I hope some people still have the wonderful Christmas traditions we enjoyed.  I regret how commercial the season has become.


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## Ehouse (Dec 3, 2013)

rideau said:


> Narnia, Fairy tales, The Princess and Curdie,  Alice in Wonderland, Hugh Pine, Winnie the Pooh, Little Bear, Blueberries for Sal, The Just So Stories, Ferdinand, The Wind in the Willows, Goodnight Moon, Mole and Troll Trim the Tree and hundreds of others.  I suppose some of you disapprove of them too.  Where is the magic of childhood, the room for a child's imagination to soar?  Christmas and Santa can be a wonderful holiday and tradition, depends what you do with it, just as everything else in life.  My grandfather claimed that learning there was no Santa was the worst thing that happened to him.  Since he served in the trenches in WWI,  I figure Santa must have been pretty terrific for him for some years.  My father, an only child, loved Christmas and playing Santa for the children's floors at Memorial SKCC, loved spending Christmas day with us.  13 of us, little money, we had a marvelous month preparing for Christmas.  My children have some pretty memorable tales to tell about trekking home through the woods with our chosen tree, horse drawn sleigh rides with Mr. Cheatham (they'd hear the sleigh bells and run down the road to meet him.  He had blankets and a heater that kept them warm on the colder days.)  One of their favorite stories is the day they were all three home for Christmas as adults.  They did a stocking for me.  It was glorious.  Had the most amazing things in it...all things I loved and would truly enjoy using.  The three of them kept watching me, rapt expressions on their faces, as I took one gift after another out of the stocking.    Then they exploded with laughter.  They had found a shopping bag with my previous year's stocking, put together by two of my sisters, complete with all its contents, and had simply restuffed the stocking.
> 
> I always found that their favorite presents as children were the ones that were bought almost as a afterthought and cost very little.  (That is, until the PC Jr came along...)
> 
> ...




I just got done watching the Grinch (with Boris) try to steal Christmas for the umpteenth time, (daughter hauls it out yearly on black Friday).  Once again, he didn't keep Christmas from coming.  It came!  I suspect it will survive the plethora of junk as easily as the paucity!

I never noticed 'til this viewing the powerful metaphor of the Christmas dinner, as the enlightened Grinch, he himself, the Grinch, carved the roast beast and Cindy Lou graciously passed each plate 'round (even the one-horned pup got some) before tucking in herself.

I'll never stop reading Beatrix Potter!


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