# Anyone Else Using a Non-EPA stove?



## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

I have a Century Heating Whistler stove, 110,000 BTU. And everyone here talks about their EPA stoves, secondary tubes, cats, and all that. Just wondered if anyone else is running something like mine and what are your experiences.

Thanks!


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## nola mike (Nov 3, 2011)

Not in this forum.  Go to https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewforum/30/
I personally preferred it when both forums were together...


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

Well mine isnt a old stove, its a new stove, just non EPA


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## leeave96 (Nov 3, 2011)

nola mike said:
			
		

> Not in this forum.  Go to https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewforum/30/
> I personally preferred it when both forums were together...



+1

I also liked it when you could post pictures and chat about your stove in this forum without having it moved or closed.  Now you got to visit multiple forums to keep-up.  It makes it harder to have a continuous conversation with everyone.  I should think if it is woodstove related, chat, pictures, advice, etc. it would be in one place - but it ain't my forum - which is probably a good thing... 

Bill


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## lukem (Nov 3, 2011)

xjcamaro said:
			
		

> I have a Century Heating Whistler stove, 110,000 BTU. And everyone here talks about their EPA stoves, secondary tubes, cats, and all that. Just wondered if anyone else is running something like mine and what are your experiences.
> 
> Thanks!



I have a pre-EPA Blaze King King.  It eats a lot of wood and makes some creosote, but really cranks out the heat.  I can get a 16 hour burn pretty easily in the dead of winter.  This time of year I can do 12 on 1/2 load if I keep the fans off.

If I had to replace this one, I would definitely get an EPA stove but there's no ROI on it for me.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a newer stove, but this one serves me just fine.


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## pen (Nov 3, 2011)

Growing Pains guys.  If it weren't for the seperation of some things, threads get completely lost as there would be 3 pages worth of new threads in one room per day.  The "cream" stays at the top.  Trying to keep more threads up in that range is the goal.  Just happens with more and more members which is a good problem IMO!

pen


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

My stove burns through the wood fast too. But im lucky if i get a 2hr burn on a load, but maybe im not loading completely correct. I just know how to work my stove to get max heat out of it quickly. Because we only burn in the evenings and weekends so its quick and hot. But definately saves on oil.


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

xjcamaro said:
			
		

> My stove burns through the wood fast too. But im lucky if i get a 2hr burn on a load, but maybe im not loading completely correct. I just know how to work my stove to get max heat out of it quickly. Because we only burn in the evenings and weekends so its quick and hot. But definately saves on oil.


I had a non-EPA stove until this season. Mine had controls on it, where yours does not. Do you have a thermometer on the stovetop? 2hrs seems like you might be hitting super high temps! If you do not have a damper over the stove, then I would get one and mess with closing it a little after you get your burn going. If you do have a damper, then maybe get another. It wouldn't be horribly strange to have two in a row on a stove with no adjustments!

Just don't choke it down too much, you still want to have decent stovetop temps to prevent creosote buildup!


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## oilstinks (Nov 3, 2011)

I got both. A non epa sierra and an epa englander. I like both but my sierra honestly uses a lot more wood than my englander. Im not pushing either one its what ever you like but i would like to replace my wood eater with an epa just because it takes so much dang wood.


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

I've been looking thru your manual and I can't figure out where the stove gets it's air. Do you know where the air intake is?

http://www.northerntool.com/downloads/manuals/700013.pdf


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

The stove gets its air through slots the go across the stove right above the door, and it air washes the door. I experimented last year with a bar that i could adjust how much of those slots were exposed to control air intake, but it didnt work out like i planned, maybe due to my damper situation at the time (read below).

I actually moved the damper prior to this season.  Prior the damper rod ran though the stove's cast collar and was restricted from closing more than 60% due to the mounting bolts for the collar being in the way. So i moved it up about 4" and mounted it through the stove pipe giving me the ability to close it all the way. I know last year i probably burned it a little too hot some times due to the lack of not being able to close the damper, i could just smell it. But this year ive sort of got a system down, now i dont know what the stove top and flue temps should be because no where in the manual does it say what it should be. I ran all last year without guages. I got 2 guages this year, one for the stove top and one for the flue. I just got two of the same guage, because when i ordered them online it didnt say if they were for one or the other. But after getting them it looks like they are for the flue because of a certain part of the guage says burn zone and creosote zone and over fire zone. They are magnetic so im thinking they should be close on both points. 

Now what i do it leave the flue damper all the way open, and start the fire with the door opened a crack until it gets going, then i shut the door and let it go, i wait until the flue temps get right into the "Burn Zone" according to the guage which seems to be right around 250-300* (i think) by that time my stove is getting up to 400-500*. At that point i have a decent fire going and i throw a couple decent splits in, shut the door and close the flue the whole way (Now there are open spots on the damper and some space around the edges of the damper, so its not truely completely shut) Now what happens now is what i feel as a more controlled burn. After i load it and shut the flue the whole way the flames calm down nicely and look like a nice calm slow fire. The flue temps hold at the 250-300* mark and the stove top will run between 500-600*. This will cruise like this depending on the splits, maybe 2 hours, even when the wood is almost burned up, as long as there are really light almost invisable blue flames, the stove top and flue will still hold close to those temps but slowly drop off. Now all of that is based off those guages. 

Now i dont know if that is where im supposed to be, but thats where it seems the stove runs good, produces some good heat, burns the longest, and constant. I feel alot better about the way im burning this year than last year. And i dont have a problem with the burn times cause we only burn for a max of 6 hrs in the evenings, and 12 hours a day on the weekends. This is due to the stove being on a finished porch that is connected to the house through our main doorway which is where our dead bolt locks are, so i cant leave that door open all night cause the outside door to get on the porch is just a storm door. So those burn times are good enough for me.

Now last year we burned from Oct 1st through basically the end of April and used about 3 cords. Now i dont care if i would go through 6 cords because what i pay for a cord of slab wood that i use greatly out-weighs the price of oil. I can burn all i want all winter for under $100 in wood. So even if i doubled that i would still be saving a boat load of money.


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## lanternman (Nov 3, 2011)

i am. all 3 of my stoves are non epa!


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

Danno, that is where i got my stove from, Northern Tool. Now i dont know if many people have ordered stoves from there, but it ended up being a extremely easy process from online order to setting the stove in place.


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

xjcamaro said:
			
		

> Danno, that is where i got my stove from, Northern Tool. Now i dont know if many people have ordered stoves from there, but it ended up being a extremely easy process from online order to setting the stove in place.


It really looks as if you are doing what I would be doing for burning. Those temps you are giving sound appropriate. I don't know what overfire is for your stove, but I would guess that keeping it under 650-700 would be best. If it gets over 750 then you should start doing something to reduce temps.

Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions are your firebox? (I guess I could look at the firebricks in the manual)


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## lanternman (Nov 3, 2011)

xjcamaro said:
			
		

> My stove burns through the wood fast too. But im lucky if i get a 2hr burn on a load, but maybe im not loading completely correct. I just know how to work my stove to get max heat out of it quickly. Because we only burn in the evenings and weekends so its quick and hot. But definately saves on oil.



mine will go about 2hrs if you load it down and shut the air control and the damper almost shut.  gets really hot though.  mines a chinese vogelzang knockoff that has an eagle on the door.  really heavy cast iron.


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

Never mind on firebox size:



> Firebox Size W x D (in.): 22 3/4 x 14 1/2



That's bigger than my old 12. Crazy that you can't get longer burn times out of it. They even only claim 1-2 hours...


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## bluedogz (Nov 3, 2011)

Non-EPA Sierra here... just a big steel box with a door.

Wintertime wood usage is still unclear for me because this is my first year burning properly dry wood, so I'm using somewhat less.  So far, it seems a full load will burn 3+ hours, although I've managed to eke out some overnight burns.


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

Ya, i bought this going in blind, i had no idea what a EPA vs non EPA was except for the tax credit. What i was looking for was price and price compared to burn times. The only burning i did prior was at my father-in-laws camp and that burner is just a huge box with a hole in the top for the chimney. Im not complaining about my stove, it more than paid for itself last year (firrst year burngin) with the saving over oil, and this year its paying for the new windows in my house, so it wasnt a bad decision, and it makes the winters all that much more bearable. Now in the future i might see if i can sell off this stove for a couple hundred and buy a more efficient one and install a real door on the porch with real locks and leave the door open to the house from the porch all night and burn that sucker, then i would be saving even more. 

Ive seen my temps spike a few times up around 700-750* but it doesnt stay long, and im sure i was up over that a couple times last year because even when it got up to 700-750 this year i couldnt smell it, but last year i could when it would get hot.

But one thing ive always wondered about was the BTU's on these things, mine is 110,000, but alot of the EPA ones are much less. Would i be sacrificing warmth for effeciency? Or how does that work. Some stove say they will heat 1200-1500 square feet but are much less BTUs than mine.

And just a note, this is also my first winter burning properly dried wood, last year the wood at the least was seasoned for 5 months.


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

Yes and no on the warmth vs efficiency question.  Here's the most simplified version
1. An EPA stove will turn more of the fuel into heat, that's a good thing.

2. A stove with longer burn times and lower BTUs may heat as well, but if it does it's because of the lack of swing in temps.

If your reload is every two hours you will have wild swings in temps in the room, I'm sure you've been someplace where the room felt fine all day at 72, then you came home and it was 70 and that felt really really cold. If your stove warms your room to 75 then drops down to 68 by the end of the burn cycle you will feel colder more often than with a stove that keeps it at 70 for three times as long. Make sense?


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## Agent (Nov 3, 2011)

xjcamaro said:
			
		

> Now last year we burned from Oct 1st through basically the end of April and used about 3 cords. Now i dont care if i would go through 6 cords because what i pay for a cord of slab wood that i use greatly out-weighs the price of oil. I can burn all i want all winter for under $100 in wood. So even if i doubled that i would still be saving a boat load of money.



If you're talking about burning sawmill cutoff slabwood, then I can easily see having only 2 hour burntimes.   That's right about the same I get when burning pallet pieces during shoulder season burns. Those little pieces like to burn HOT and fast if you're not careful.  I've accidently let my temps spike to 850F+ a few times that way.
And you're right about the savings!  For under $300, I got 6 cords of pine (2x what I used last year), and that includes a 140 mile round trip drive to get each load!
Sure, we have to fidget and fuss with our stoves a little more, but I can stand being slightly inconvienced in order to save a thousand+ dollars on a newer stove.
Now that I think about it, my Big Buck isn't even UL listed, let alone EPA certified


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 3, 2011)

The slab wood i buy is sawmill cuttoff, but its not your usual junk, i dont know what this guy does that his slab wood is so thick, but i pick through and grab only the thick stuff, and most of the time i dont even have to pick through it, its all good and thick. Alot of the slab wood i have is at last 3" thick, and some of it i had to split!, so its not your usual slab wood where there is more bark than wood. And i have 6 cords of this stuff, enough to get me through 2 winters. I get it for $15 a truck load, and he is within 10 miles of my house. That equals about two truck loads/cord.

My stove saved me over $1000 in oil last year, and probably more this year. I got filled with oil last year at christmas time, i have a 275 gallon tank, i still have 100 gallons left.

The really sad thing is, i work for the oil company! lol


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## Kenster (Nov 3, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> Growing Pains guys.  If it weren't for the seperation of some things, threads get completely lost as there would be 3 pages worth of new threads in one room per day.  The "cream" stays at the top.  Trying to keep more threads up in that range is the goal.  Just happens with more and more members which is a good problem IMO!
> 
> pen



I rather like having a separate forum for 'classic stoves,' thankyouverymuch!


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## Danno77 (Nov 3, 2011)

This ain't a classic. Should be moved to the hearth where there is more traffic.


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 3, 2011)

leeave96 said:
			
		

> nola mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I feel the same way. If you hadn't PMed me about the thread you posted in Picture Perfect I would have never seen it.


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## agartner (Nov 3, 2011)

Pre epa kent sherwood, and i love it.  For its time, in the mid 80s, it was an advanced design, kind of a precursor to the current flock of hi efficiency stoves out there now.  And im ok with the separate thread for classics.


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## littlalex (Nov 4, 2011)

Howdy - Oldy pre EPA here. Old VC vigliant. Have nothing to compare it too re: wood consumption. Get 5-6 Hr burns on good night. Stove does put out too much heat for my space but that will become bearable when the temps plunge.

Good burnin'

Littlalex


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## aussiedog3 (Nov 5, 2011)

Don't worry XJ, you are not alone.

Lots of us out here burning old stoves.

Lots of newbies or newerbies.  Trying to get first full season under out belts with old stoves.

Trying to get years ahead on seasoned wood.

Learning as we go.  Making mistakes.

We start off stacking wrong, burning wrong....

using the wrong saw, no PPE, but we change, we learn

but we use the stove that we like and can afford.

No worries XJ, w got your back.


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks guys! I have no problem running a old style stove. It saves me money over oil, keeps me warmed, and is a real morale booster in those cold crappy winter days!


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## lowroadacres (Nov 5, 2011)

I am running a small Drolet Jasper non-epa stove.

Of course I wish that I was running a zero clearance fireplace and/or a quality insert but like "gottenwood" is the best wood....

The stove I have is the best one for now.


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## wkpoor (Nov 7, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Yes and no on the warmth vs efficiency question.  Here's the most simplified version
> 1. An EPA stove will turn more of the fuel into heat, that's a good thing.
> 
> 2. A stove with longer burn times and lower BTUs may heat as well, but if it does it's because of the lack of swing in temps.
> ...


That does about sum it up. Well written explanation.
I think there are still more PreEPA stoves being used than Post. Had it not have been for then internet I might still be using a Pre. I posted last yr about how basically no one I know of has or knows anything about an EPA stove. Outside of the internet unless you happened into a store looking to buy new with knowledgeable sales people there to educate you, likely you wouldn't have a clue. Even over 20yrs after they came into being.


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## tickbitty (Nov 8, 2011)

There's a couple good videos online that talk about increasing efficiency in both older non-epa and newer stoves.  A lot of the same rules apply for achieving best efficiency in both...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0MimILPzUI


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## greythorn3 (Nov 9, 2011)

i got a old blaze king also and it heats like the dickens! also got a new non epa wood furnace, thats  heats rather well too


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## steeltowninwv (Nov 9, 2011)

I have a 1981 Shenandoah fp-1 insert...bought a house last year and this was already here...it keeps us warm..just now thinking I have learned it...I get pretty good burn times 6-8 hours....I'm a year ahead on firewood now..and I'm working on 2 years from now wood...hopefully next year ill get an EPA stove...


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## kettensÃ¤ge (Nov 9, 2011)

I have a 1989 vintage pre epa Hutch insert with a 6+ cu ft. fire box. Burn times are easy 6-8 hours of good heat and up to 10 for an easy refill and go. 

Last Sunday I reloaded at around 350 surface temps. Draft was strong that day to the point that I heard it through the air controls which I typically set at 50% or so when it's just cruising along.

I closed them down more than ever did before and surface temps shot up to near 575 which is higher than I normally burn at and stayed this high for a good while. Never lost visible flames but cutting the air made it really take off.

I am waiting for the shoulder season to end so I can do more experimenting.


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## EJL923 (Nov 9, 2011)

I suppose, like always, it comes down to your house and how well heat retains.  My father has an old Warner wood stove, just a baffle and no secondaries.  It only has a wheel on the front door for air.  I think he loads that full once in the morning and the shear mass of that thing will retain heat all day.  I cant say he burns very clean, but not a classic smoke dragon either.


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## xjcamaro89 (Nov 9, 2011)

Ive also noticed just this year so far that moving my damper to a location where i can virtually close it down, and having properly seasoned wood, i dont get near the ash build up in the box like i did last year.


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## missing link (Nov 11, 2011)

Yup got rid of my Dutchwest 224ccl 1985 and installed a Little Moe Allnighter w/blower
 the shoulder burns have been sweet it hasn't been cold enough here to have a steady burn, but i'll tell ya  what  so far so good 
 I just got home from work and  started a fire  after 10 min stove is at 350 and climbing to cruise through the night
 I figure it'll be 75 deg. steady in 1 hr  probably load it 2X then close her down to idle until the AM 
ML


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## tfdchief (Nov 13, 2011)

I have been burning wood for 40 years.  I have burned wood in about everything.  I now have my old buck 1982 non EPA stove and my brand new little Hampton H200.  I love both of them!  The new technology is undeniable.  However, my goal has always been to warm my heart and soul.  They both do that!  It is all relative.  Do what you want, and what you need, and what you have to do.   Just be safe.


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## Mr A (Nov 18, 2011)

I just got a Washington Stove Works Olympic insert. It must be non-EPA certified, the company closed in 1981 as far as I can tell. Not much info on it. It sits half inside the fireplace. There is a lever to slide the damper open and shut. There is no stack, the smoke comes out of the insert and goes right up the existing chimney. Makes for a convenient install, other than the fact it weighs 400 pounds and I had to get it up onto the 15 inch hearth.


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## begreen (Nov 18, 2011)

That is a slammer installation and considered dangerous. At least seal the surround very well and have good, working smoke and CO detectors nearby.


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## tfdchief (Nov 19, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> That is a slammer installation and *considered dangerous*. At least seal the surround very well and have good, working smoke and CO detectors nearby.


OK, I am having a little trouble with this , _"That is a slammer installation and *considered dangerous*"_  First, this is the Classic Stove Forums - Pre-EPA woodstoves 1969-1989.  Secondly, many 1980's stoves were UL approved, at that time, to be installed exactly that way.  

Although I would not advocate for someone with little experience and or knowledge of their setup to start out with a "slammer" (Oh, we didn't call it that then) especially when there certainly is much better, safer equipment, and install methods available today, back when some of us started, that is all there was.  And, it was considered state of the art, UL approved, and much better than its predecessors.  And yes, I have have directly connected my old "slammer" to a S/S liner, but it wasn't always that way, and although it was a lot more trouble, I sure didn't consider it dangerous......not as a firefighter with a family.   

New cars are much safer than the old ones, but not everyone can have a new one.  

Now, that said, I completely understand why you posted as you did.  Probably the best thing you could have told a new guy.  It's just that for us old timers, with old stoves we saved really hard for, and thought was the best thing since peanut butter at the time, it is just a little hard.  :smirk:


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## BrotherBart (Nov 19, 2011)

My old early 1980's "slammer" insert said in the manual that a direct connect was better than just shoving it in the fireplace. It just didn't tell ya where to find the pieces to do it. They started learning early on the problems with those installations. So did me and four or five of my neighbors when we would "light up the night" around here.


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## Mr A (Nov 19, 2011)

Well, it was 64 degrees at the turned off thermostat this morning, after dipping to 39 overnight. Only burned starter fire and 4 pieces loaded before turning it down for the night. A few have mentioned safety without stating the danger. I bought this from a 90 yr old guy, so I'm guessing he had it a while! I also found it is certified by Oregon DEQ, if that means anything. Only complaint is that I get a small billow of smoke when reloading. Please explain any dangers I would need to consider So that I can take appropriate risk reward evaluation. Right now, this thing is great, chimney draws well, and it heats the place, so I am very interested in the negatives to this.


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## begreen (Nov 19, 2011)

The risks of a slammer install are multiple. Unless this is the model 4500EM, this insert is not efficient. Lacking a reburn system, it is expelling a lot of unburnt wood gas.  In a reverse draft situation like when a warm front moves in overnight, this type of installation can start leaking CO badly. Secondly the hot wood gases are spilling out on to cold surfaces immediately on exit from the stove. This causes the wood gas to cool rapidly and condense as creosote deposits in the lower part of the chimney. By the time it reaches the top of the chimney the condensation is even worse. Repeated burning builds up the combustible creosote deposits. If the wood is not fully seasoned and the stove is allowed to smolder, then this accumulation will be rapid. Then, one big fire in the stove and they ignite with potentially deadly results. Pull the stove and take a flashlight to examine the damper area and above. I suspect you will find a black, gooey mess. If the chimney doesn't have a clay liner, it is a serious time bomb ticking away with each new fire. Burn dry wood only and clean frequently. 

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/creosote_from_wood_burning_causes_and_solutions
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infchimneyfire/infchimneyfire.html


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## Mr A (Nov 19, 2011)

My fireplace is is a built-in masonry, built in the 70's. The flue is the clay tubular blocks they used back then. I have a cord of 2 year seasoned oak. So, I should slide it out every year and check the chimney I guess.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 19, 2011)

That is what I did with a 650 beast every year for 21 years. A tremendous amount of stuff accumulates in the smoke chamber above the stove below the flue tiles and is a mess to clean out. The second thing is as BeGreen said the coating of the inside of the chimney flue tiles. Really, really dry wood and maintaining a stove top temp at least five hundred degrees helps. I knew I had trouble on my hands with that setup from year one. Every few years I would try to figure a way to line the chimney with stove pipe. Chimney liners didn't exist then. Finally gave up and just lived with the mess and occasional chimney fires. What I didn't know is just a few years after I gave up on lining it chimney liners got themselves invented and I could have had a dozen or more years of better draft, lower wood usage and not hurt back and being covered with creosote from getting in there every year to clean that mess. If I had known about EPA stoves before I found this place that old love of my life stove would have been out of here years before it finally was.

If a person is gonna burn one of the old stoves at the least they ought to line the chimney to get better performance and ease of maintenance. And so if a flue fire lights off it is contained in something that doesn't crack like clay tiles do.

We ain't trying to scare anybody. Just tell ya what we learned the hard way.


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## Mr A (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for the input. Amazing how much one can learn once they start looking into something! I found a local company that claims they can put in a liner for a slammer, no idea of cost yet, any ideas?. I shopped some of the fireplace stores and new EPA inserts start at $3K, out of the budget right now. I like to do most things myself, any ideas on cleaning the chimney, and installing a liner? Also ,top down fires seem ideal for slammers. I have been startin top down fires in it and the smoke is light.


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## begreen (Nov 20, 2011)

Depending on your heating needs, there are EPA inserts starting at around $1000.


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## Mr A (Nov 20, 2011)

Really, looks I need to do some shopping up north?


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## begreen (Nov 20, 2011)

You can start on the internet. Remember to take the tax credit too.

$1099 delivered from factory: http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html

$1199 free ship: http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1934

Call for price: http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=885


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## valley ranch (Dec 8, 2011)

Greetings, At v ranch 1 we have a Centennial wood stove purchased new in the 70's. at v ranch 2 we just installed a Nordic Eric jr that is somewhat newer. 

I love the Centennial, they were made in Oregon, I installed a glass plate in the door using a cast part from another stove, other than that it is stock, still getting used to the Nordic.


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## eclecticcottage (Dec 9, 2011)

We've got both, but only the EPA stove is running right now.  The EPA stove is a Lopi Republic 1750.  The non-epa is a cone shaped open stove...I can't think of the brand now.  I attached a pic.  It's in a three season porch.


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## Damper Dan (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for the detail about operating your stove...I picked up an identical one (King Model 2007 by US Stove) from Craig's list and haven't had a chance to burn it yet. However, after I got it home I took a closer look at the upper baffle and now know what over firing in a stove can do. The baffle looks like rolling waves...this stove must have some thin steel. Not sure if the warped baffle makes this unsafe to operate...no signs of cracks or splits...any one have any thoughts on that???






			
				xjcamaro said:
			
		

> The stove gets its air through slots the go across the stove right above the door, and it air washes the door. I experimented last year with a bar that i could adjust how much of those slots were exposed to control air intake, but it didnt work out like i planned, maybe due to my damper situation at the time (read below).
> 
> I actually moved the damper prior to this season.  Prior the damper rod ran though the stove's cast collar and was restricted from closing more than 60% due to the mounting bolts for the collar being in the way. So i moved it up about 4" and mounted it through the stove pipe giving me the ability to close it all the way. I know last year i probably burned it a little too hot some times due to the lack of not being able to close the damper, i could just smell it. But this year ive sort of got a system down, now i dont know what the stove top and flue temps should be because no where in the manual does it say what it should be. I ran all last year without guages. I got 2 guages this year, one for the stove top and one for the flue. I just got two of the same guage, because when i ordered them online it didnt say if they were for one or the other. But after getting them it looks like they are for the flue because of a certain part of the guage says burn zone and creosote zone and over fire zone. They are magnetic so im thinking they should be close on both points.
> 
> ...


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## Damper Dan (Dec 9, 2011)

Just sold my EPA stove (Napoleon 1400) and I'm going back to my non-EPA (Nashua). 
Some older non-EPA's (like the Nashua) were very well designed, had long burn times, put off a great amount of heat and burn almost as clean. 
I like secondary burning technology... but I also want heat output.


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## Treacherous (Oct 28, 2012)

valley ranch said:


> Greetings, At v ranch 1 we have a Centennial wood stove purchased new in the 70's. at v ranch 2 we just installed a Nordic Eric jr that is somewhat newer.
> 
> I love the Centennial, they were made in Oregon, I installed a glass plate in the door using a cast part from another stove, other than that it is stock, still getting used to the Nordic.


 
I replaced my old Centennial stove a few years back with my Lopi.  Do you know where they were made in Oregon?


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## Boog (Nov 7, 2012)

I've got an early 80's Charmaster wood/oil combo forced air furnace ..... it has a 30" firebox and a big door, but I usually don't put things longer than about 24" into her.  I have my own woods, so I save a bundle on heating costs each year.  I have no trouble holding a fire all day/night with a big load of the right woods.


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## oppirs (Nov 8, 2012)

Treacherous said:


> I replaced my old Centennial stove a few years back with my Lopi. Do you know where they were made in Oregon?


 
That's a cool ad, What year? My Lopi is old maybe the '70s, as they (KDI) use the word's (Asbestos)

Tag said made in Springport, MI


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## Dune (Nov 8, 2012)

I have a pre-EPA stove, but it is a gassifier. Wood consumption is low. I do intend to replace it one of these years with a cat stove.
The features of the cat stove are very appealing to me.


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## Treacherous (Nov 8, 2012)

oppirs said:


> That's a cool ad, What year? My Lopi is old maybe the '70s, as they (KDI) use the word's (Asbestos)
> 
> Tag said made in Springport, MI
> 
> View attachment 80279


 

My old stove was from '74.  The ad was from late '77.


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## Scols (Nov 15, 2012)

My 70's era Better N Ben stove was originally one of those slammer installations.However, on mine the surround just bolts on to 10 studs on the back of the stove so it was very easy to remove.This year in my new house I set it up as a free standing stove in a fireplace with a stainless steel chimney.Besides being safer,it drafts much better and I no longer get puffbacks even during strong winds.The stove puts out tremendous heat but I dont get burn times of more than 4 or 5 hours.


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## jjs777_fzr (Nov 15, 2012)

xjcamaro89 said:


> Well mine isnt a old stove, its a new stove, just non EPA


 
Just want to clarify - what you have is a EPA-Exempt stove.  When you say its non-epa to me it could be a pre-epa stove.
It became EPA-Exempt by meeting certain qualifications and/or was demonstrated to meet those qualifications.   Most likely due to the fact you cannot choke off the air to the extent it will smolder thus emitting much more particulates into the air.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/exemptwood.pdf


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## LaBonBon (Nov 17, 2012)

My Kodiak is pre-EPA and works great. Keeps my two-story home toasty warm.


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## valley ranch (Nov 18, 2012)

Greetings, Just got back, we were at the other place for longer than usual. Interesting to read the post you guys added to this thread. It took me a while to rember my sigh in details.
I rebuilted the area around the stove at the high desert ranch using information I found on this forum.

I'll research how to put up a avatar and other info so things don't look so blank. Good to read what you've been doing and thinking.  Thanks Richard


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