# Tow Vehicle Selection



## Ashful (May 9, 2017)

I guess I should've thought to ask you smart folks sooner, I'm headed to a car dealership this afternoon, and will probably buy a new vehicle to replace my 2005 Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4.  This is the vehicle I use to pull all my trailers, the largest being my 7000 lb. BigTex Vanguard 70TV trailer:





I'm debating between getting another Ram 1500, this time a Crew Cab, or a Durango R/T 5.7L Hemi.  There are many pro's and con's of each I could list here, but rather than boring you folks with those, let's just ask the basic question:

Am I going to regret pulling this relatively wide and heavy trailer with a Durango?  The Durango is actually rated to pull more than my current Ram 1500, but does require a weight distribution hitch (WDH) for a trailer this heavy, whereas the WDH is only "recommended" on the new Ram 1500.  

My biggest perceived issue is actually not towing capability, but visibility.  The body on the Ram 1500 is 9" wider, and it has much more substantial mirrors, and I'm used to towing my trailers with that rig.  I know I can put silly big towing mirrors on the Durango, but doubt I'd actually be committed enough to do it, every time I hook up a trailer.

Have any of you towed a heavy or large trailer with a smaller SUV?  What are your thoughts on this?

Curb weight:  Ram 1500 = 5194 / Durango = 5331 lb
GVWR:  Ram 1500 = 6900 / Durango = 7100 lb
Payload:  Ram 1500 = 1700 / Durango = 1769 lb
GCWR:  Ram 1500 = 13,800 / Durango = 13,100 lb
Max trailer:  Ram 1500 = 8170 / Durango = 7200 lb


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## Ashful (May 9, 2017)

Now that I got the urgent question out of the way, for those who are actually interested in the background, here's my list of pro's for each option.  In both cases, I'm primarily shopping off-lease 2015's, and will probably only drive this vehicle ~2k miles per year.

Durango R/T 5.7L Hemi AWD:
- Fits in my smaller garage, leaving my nice car in the attached garage.
- Holds 6 - 7 passengers.  Better for hauling kids and family trips.
- Fits in city parking garages, including the one at the airport!  I won't take my nice car to the city.
- Better daily driver / more fun than pickup truck.
- Leather interior and NAV at same price as pickup truck basic cloth interior.

Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4x4 5.7L Hemi:
- Better tow vehicle (longer wheelbase, higher GCWR / max trailer, better mirrors, wider)
- Pickup bed (moving plywood, drywall, gas cans, fertilizer... all without my trailer)
- A few leftover 2016's that can be had CHEAP, or CPO 2016's at very low miles


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## KD0AXS (May 9, 2017)

My selection would be a Prius. :D




Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## Jags (May 9, 2017)

Now I know we must be kin...

Anyhow - I have a grand Cherokee 4.7 (not the 5.7 you would get in the Durango) and it pulls my trailers just fine (boat and utility).  I just bought a 2017 Ram 1500 quad cab with the 5.7 and 8 speed tranny.  Limited slip rear end, factory trailer breaks - basically the whole deal.  I have less than 1000 miles on it so far but have towed both my rigs several times now.  Night and day difference between the SUV and the truck.  The truck plays with the trailers.  I often forget I am towing unless I look back and see something following me really close.

Those new trannys are pretty cool.  Smooth.  The breaking ability from your old ram (I traded in a 99) and the new stuff is YUUGE!


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## bholler (May 9, 2017)

If it was me I would be looking at 2500s.  I have towed with plenty of 1/2 ton trucks and they do it but nowhere near as well as 3/4 ton ones.  and the suspension on the dodge 2500s is still pretty forgiving.  They definitely ride the best out of the big 3.  I still personally prefer chevy or ford over dodge but our trucks are purely work trucks if I was looking for a non work truck I would definitely consider dodge.  I can tell you that my extended trailblazer with a 5.3 tows better than my buddies chevy 1500 with the same motor. Not sure why it is better but neither come close to my F-250 hd with a 351 or the Chevy 2500 work truck with the 6.0


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## Bad LP (May 9, 2017)

I wouldn't be buying a Dodge.

Does that help?


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## blades (May 9, 2017)

You got a big heavy trailer + when you load it , 3/4 ton truck is the way to fly.   You got brakes to handle the load on a 3/4 t, marginal on 1/2 , less than that on an suv or 1/4t rig.  
FYI  1/2 ton big trailer and max load maybe a tad over down hill slope about 2 miles long- trailer brakes went south- dang near melted the rotors off all 4 wheels of the pickup. about 1/2 way down the slope started picking up speed brakes fading out on truck only thing that saved my tail was County LEO got in front and we played bumper tag  till we got it stopped. Rotors glowing a lovely shade of red hence my recommendation of 3/4 or 1 ton.


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## Ashful (May 9, 2017)

Thanks, guys.  Bad LP, I just don't understand you blind brand loyalty guys, good or bad.  I've owned 1/2 ton pickups from all three, Ford, Chevy and Dodge, and have nothing serious against any of them.  Ironically, my current Dodge, which is the lightest built among them has been the most reliable by a very long margin, not having a serious repair in 12 years.  My Chevy was arguably the most stoutly built, had the worst reliability by a long shot, requiring too many repairs to even remember today.  Of course, others have had the opposite experience, based on a sample size of one.  I can only say that all three are pretty damn good today, compared to the crap all three put on the road in years' past.

I pass two dealerships every day, a very large Dodge dealer, and a little tiny GMC dealer.  The off-lease GMC's are few and unrealistically pricy, so it will be Dodge.  I could buy Ford or Chevy, but those servicing dealers are far from home, and my local Dodge dealer gives me loaner cars, which is worth a lot to me.

Jags... yes, you and I think very much alike in most things! 

I liked that the R/T Durango had a lot in common with my SRT car, in terms of interior layout and controls.  The personality on that 8-speed transmission was set up much more aggressively than any of the pickups I drove, which is everything to me.  The Durango was definitely the most pleasing to drive, without a trailer, which is what I'll be doing with it 90% of the time.

I drove two of their "Big Horn" pickups, which I found soft and disappointing.  I also drove a Sport model 1500 with leather interior and 3.92 gears, which I liked much more.  The tranny was still soft in shifting, but that's all programmable, if I find the right tuner.

I actually took the trailer pictured above to the Dodge dealer this afternoon, and towed it around a bit (empty, no trailer brake on the vehicle) with an R/T Durango.  The mirrors need extenders, but it could work as a tow vehicle.  Like you, I forget it's even there when towing the empty trailer with my 1500, and you feel it a bit more behind the Durango.  However, with the same engine and just a tad bit more curb weight, the Durango is more than capable.  I load that trailer right up to the 7000 lb. limit with fire wood, but really only tow it short distances.  I might do much longer distances with my boat trailer, but that's under 2000 lb.

I love the huge Crew Cabs, but hate the short 5' 7" bed they're putting on them.  There is a sport model with leather and 6' 5" bed coming to inventory, which might be the one for me.  A little long, but either will fit in my garage, and neither will fit in my shop.

Still undecided. I think I need to spend a little time looking for tuners who have written tranny retunes for the Ram 1500's, which might sway me their way.  If I could stiffen up the suspension, get it to shift like it has a pair and disable that godforsaken MDS system... maybe I'd be happy.  Otherwise, the R/T Durango may win out, even being slightly less practical for hauling.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 9, 2017)

Towing package.....


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## blacktail (May 9, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Bad LP, I just don't understand you blind brand loyalty guys, good or bad.



Without question, the people I've known with dodge vehicles have had the most problems. Front end rebuilds, cracked heads, cracked cab welds, dead oil pumps. Every manufacturer has years and models to avoid, but I choose to avoid every model and year of dodge.


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## Ashful (May 9, 2017)

I think you're missing the point of my original post, blacktail.  I do not fear any such fabled demise, often quoted and seldom realized.  I do need to decide between an SUV and a pickup truck, if you'd care to chime in on that subject.

My wife votes for the Ram 1500, if that counts for anything.  Of course, that was immediately followed by, "you should just buy whatever you want, that's what you're going to do anyway."


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## Catfish Hunter (May 10, 2017)

I'd go with the truck, Ram 1500. It's always nice to have a bed that doesn't have to be made...

It just seems like there is always something that's too messy to go inside and it's nice to have that space to toss things.


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## Catfish Hunter (May 10, 2017)

This is off topic, but I've always owned Fords. One major reason for continuing that trend is because I know how to work on them. I've never had any major motor/transmission/differential issues and they've been abused. If you are buying new I don't see any concern since it's under warranty. If you were buying used then it pays to know the trucks and what to look for to avoid. So since you know about Dodge, have close dealer support, seems like a good decision to me.


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## Bad LP (May 10, 2017)

I hardly call it blind brand loyalty.

Everybody I know with Ford SD's (gas and diesels) pump money into them. Brakes, front ends, motor work, ect. All of these trucks are worked and not beauty queens. I myself had a F350 for a plow truck that needed constant care.

My only Dodge was a 1991 Diesel. Outstanding work truck and built like one. Interior was nothing great but the driveline, engine and body did very well for the mileage I put on it. Guys I know with the newer ones including one Durango had nothing good to say.

My 98 GMC diesel was nothing close to the Dodge until I replaced the computer with a BD Engine Brake unit and it ran great until the 100K when the fuel injector pump crapped out. Had it replaced under warranty and traded it right away. From that point forward I replace my trucks (all 2500 gas engine GM's) at around 70K miles that normally takes 2.5 years. I get a great trade in value and don't put a wrench to them except oil and filters. 
The one and only time I went with a Titan truck was a major disappointment. At 68K I already replaced the rear end seals twice and the muffler blew out along with the brakes failing. Couldn't get rid of that POS fast enough.

Along the way thru all of this I have towed a lot. From a large 4 place enclosed snowmobile trailer, a 21 foot Mako boat (heavy) multiple equipment trailers and currently a 7000 + pound boat on a triple axle trailer. 

Good luck with your new ride whatever it may end up being.


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## Jags (May 10, 2017)

Now...back to the SUV vs Pickup truck.

As stated above, I have both. When toying with options during my last buy I have come to the conclusion that if I could only have one it would be the truck, but I am not hauling people.  That may/may not be the proverbial straw. I will also state that personally I am not sure I would be a fan of hanging your big trailer off the back of a Durango.  I am aware that they are a very capable SUV, but they just don't have the physical stature of the truck.  Width, length, weight are big players when towing.

(RUN ashful, RUN - I see a minivan lurking around the corner....)


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## Highbeam (May 10, 2017)

My wife drives a 1500 GMC Yukon SUV and I drive an F350 crew cab. SUVs are for girls, hauling large amounts of people, long road trips with sensitive luggage, etc. Get a pickup to haul a trailer or do actual work. We drive the nice SUV for girly, clean, trips like shopping or taking the kids to school, the truck is required when there is a job to be done. Both of these vehicles get the same mpg empty.

I am not brand loyal either. They are all pretty awesome right now.


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## Ashful (May 10, 2017)

lol... thanks, guys!  @Bad LP, I see your point now, but your usage and mine are quite different.  I won't do 70k miles on this truck in 20 years!  I think I put about 2k miles per year on my truck, since I only drive it in bad weather or when hauling a trailer.  All of my hauling is very local, the last several years, mostly firewood from just 10 miles away or taking my boat to the local lake.

My kid hauler is an SRT 392 Charger.  You can call my noisy 6.4 liter sedan girly, if you want, Highbeam.    It'll get the kids to school far quicker than your pickup truck!  No minivan in our future.

I'm going with the Ram 1500.  Waiting for an answer from the dealer now, on availability of one I found in their 2015 off-lease inventory.  I'm bummed that they don't stock the Quad Cab with 6' 5" bed anymore, they're all Crew Cab now, almost all with less useful 5' 7" beds.  My shorter Quad Cab with the 6' 5" bed was the ideal compromise for me, but because I do use this truck when I go the city, I'm going to resist temptation to go to the longer wheelbase to get Crew Cab AND a longer bed.  I'll just need to use the trailer any time I'm picking up anything over 10 feet long, which isn't all that frequent anymore.


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## Jags (May 10, 2017)

My 2017 is a quad, not a crew.  The larger bed means more to me than leg room for the back seat.


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## Ashful (May 10, 2017)

Me too.  Maybe I need to look harder for a used Quad, if I can find one nice.  Our local dealer only stocks them in Crew Cab for 2015 onward.  Not buying new for this, since I do so few miles in the pickup.


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## Ashful (May 10, 2017)

When I got home this evening, I climbed into the back seat of my old Quad Cab Ram 1500, which is something I don't think I've ever done before.  I'm 6' 0", and it was quite comfortable for me.  I wouldn't want to take a 6 hour trip in that seat, but it's perfectly fine for regular daily driving with some larger kids in the back seat.  I agree with you, Jags, the Quad Cab with 6' 5" bed is much better than these short bed Crew Cab trucks everyone has today.

The trouble is, used inventory on this configuration seems pretty thin.  Finding a clean one with the options I want might be a challenge, and I don't want to travel to get it.


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## EatenByLimestone (May 10, 2017)

I'll second the need for a tow package.

I've been contemplating getting rid of my 04 1500, but its so capable.  It does everything I want it to.


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## festerw (May 11, 2017)

I've used my wife's 2011 3.6 Durango to pull around about 2500lbs and it does it without complaint.  It's nearly the same weight, length and width as my 04 Tundra but gets a hell of a lot better fuel mileage.


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## Ashful (May 11, 2017)

Yeah, if my trailer were smaller and lighter, the Durango would get better consideration.  But I load that thing right up to the 7000 lb. GTWR almost every time I haul wood with it.  The R/T Durango (5.7L) is rated to 7200 lb. gross trailer, which would get me there, but it's right at its limit.

I'm personally irritated they won't put the 6.4L motor in the Durango or Ram 1500 anymore... gotta settle for that little 5.7L Hemi.    I wouldn't even consider going to a 295 hp 3.6L motor in a vehicle that large, but I do appreciate you saving all that gas for me.


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## Highbeam (May 11, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The R/T Durango (5.7L) is rated to 7200 lb. gross trailer, which would get me there, but it's right at its limit.



Be very careful about depending on anything resembling a "tow rating" with these little half tons and smaller. All too often you can't get there without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Get a hold of the curb weight of the actual vehicle, the GVWR, and the GCWR. Axle weight ratings sometimes come into play as well as tire ratings but on the half tons you hit the GVWR really early.

This is how I went from my chevy 1500 pickup with 400#s of legal cargo capacity to my F350 with 2500# of legal cargo capacity. Tongue weight of a 7000# trailer is 1400# which as you see would not work for the 1500.


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## festerw (May 11, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I'm personally irritated they won't put the 6.4L motor in the Durango or Ram 1500 anymore... gotta settle for that little 5.7L Hemi.    I wouldn't even consider going to a 295 hp 3.6L motor in a vehicle that large, but I do appreciate you saving all that gas for me.



We actually test drove both and up to 60 didn't notice a huge difference or I would have pushed for the Hemi.  I was pleasantly surprised with the 22mpg average for her daily commute considering it's the size of a bus.


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## Bad LP (May 11, 2017)

Just please remember that getting it to move is one thing. Getting it to stop is another. 
Don't forget the tire weight rating. A blow out and losing control will have that trailer making all the decisions on where you are going to stop and how.


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## Ashful (May 11, 2017)

Bad LP said:


> Just please remember that getting it to move is one thing. Getting it to stop is another.
> Don't forget the tire weight rating. A blow out and losing control will have that trailer making all the decisions on where you are going to stop and how.



Guys, I appreciate the cautions, but I've been pulling trailers for 25 years, and riding in vehicles pulling them for 15 years prior to that.  I understand tongue weight, axle weight ratings, and tire ratings.  Actually, tire rating was one of my gripes with my old Dodge, as the factory tires didn't meet the requirement for their GVWR.

The trailer has brakes on all axles, and the vehicle will have a proportional electronic brake controller, and yes... I know how to set it up!

The Durango is short on rear axle weight rating, hence the WDH requirement to get to 7200 lb.  But Highbeam, 1400 lb is right at the maximum tongue weight for a 7000 lb trailer.  I usually aim for 10% on a trailer that heavy, so 700'ish lb.  No trouble exceeding the Ram 1500 GVWRs at that level.


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## Highbeam (May 11, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Guys, I appreciate the cautions, but I've been pulling trailers for 25 years, and riding in vehicles pulling them for 15 years prior to that.  I understand tongue weight, axle weight ratings, and tire ratings.  Actually, tire rating was one of my gripes with my old Dodge, as the factory tires didn't meet the requirement for their GVWR.
> 
> The trailer has brakes on all axles, and the vehicle will have a proportional electronic brake controller, and yes... I know how to set it up!
> 
> The Durango is short on rear axle weight rating, hence the WDH requirement to get to 7200 lb.  But Highbeam, 1400 lb is right at the maximum tongue weight for a 7000 lb trailer.  I usually aim for 10% on a trailer that heavy, so 700'ish lb.  No trouble exceeding the Ram 1500 GVWRs at that level.



Ack, you're right 20% is for fifth wheels. 10% for bumper pull.


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## Ashful (May 12, 2017)

I have a fifth wheel, but it's hanging under the bed, with a spare tire mounted on it.  Lol...


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## bholler (May 12, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Guys, I appreciate the cautions, but I've been pulling trailers for 25 years, and riding in vehicles pulling them for 15 years prior to that. I understand tongue weight, axle weight ratings, and tire ratings. Actually, tire rating was one of my gripes with my old Dodge, as the factory tires didn't meet the requirement for their GVWR.


And I pull trailers just about every weekday during the summer.  And I can tell you that towing a trailer the size of yours will be much safer and easier on the vehicle with a 3/4 ton truck.   Yes a 1/2 ton will do it but nowhere near as well.  If you are ok with that fine but you couldn't get me to do it.  Every time I have pulled a trailer anywhere near the capacity of the vehicle I have never felt comfortable that if anything went wrong and I had to turn hard ect. that the vehicle would do what I want.  I am much more comfortable doing it in a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.


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## maple1 (May 12, 2017)

That might depend on the year & make.

The 3 year old F150 in the family tows a load a lot better than the 8 year old F250.

Or at least it feels that way - no idea why.

No contest though if your bigger one is a dually. Have one of those here too but unfortunately it has rusted away to almost being done for. REALLY should have sprayed it all those years...


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## bholler (May 12, 2017)

maple1 said:


> That might depend on the year & make.
> 
> The 3 year old F150 in the family tows a load a lot better than the 8 year old F250.
> 
> ...


Probably tires they are the most important part


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## Jags (May 13, 2017)

Folks - we are talking about a user that drags it around as a hobby, not a job.  As stated several posts ago, the truck will only see a couple thousand miles per year and not all of those will be towing miles and it sounds like the vast majority is very local, slow speed.  Just pointing out that we are talking limited usage on this rig.


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## Ashful (May 13, 2017)

Jags said:


> Folks - we are talking about a user that drags it around as a hobby, not a job.  As stated several posts ago, the truck will only see a couple thousand miles per year and not all of those will be towing miles and it sounds like the vast majority is very local, slow speed.  Just pointing out that we are talking limited usage on this rig.


You got it, brother!  I put a holding deposit on this morning:

Ram 1500
5.7L Hemi
4x4 Crew Cab
Outdoorsman package
3.92 Posi rear

Thank you!


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## bholler (May 13, 2017)

Jags said:


> Folks - we are talking about a user that drags it around as a hobby, not a job.  As stated several posts ago, the truck will only see a couple thousand miles per year and not all of those will be towing miles and it sounds like the vast majority is very local, slow speed.  Just pointing out that we are talking limited usage on this rig.


Yes but he is still pulling a big trailer full of firewood.  You can still have bad things happen close to home.  Like i said it is up to him but i have never felt very safe towing much with a 1/2 ton


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## Ashful (May 13, 2017)

bholler said:


> Yes but he is still pulling a big trailer full of firewood.  You can still have bad things happen close to home.  Like i said it is up to him but i have never felt very safe towing much with a 1/2 ton


That's fine bholler, I won't hold that against you.  The truck I am buying has a GCWR of 15,950 lb, and max trailer rating of 10,320 lb.  My trailer is only 7000 lb, and I've towed it with much less of a truck up till now.


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## Lloyd the redneck (May 20, 2017)

Here's an idea. Buy a 97-99 Chevy 2500. Put new motor Tranny rear end front end and bearings in it , for around 8000. It will be new again! And then use the money you saved to trade the sedan in on a hellcat or demon!


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## Tar12 (May 21, 2017)

Ashful said:


> You got it, brother!  I put a holding deposit on this morning:
> 
> Ram 1500
> 5.7L Hemi
> ...


I think you made a excellent choice! My bud has a almost identical package and he put Firestone air bags under it..IMO its the best of both worlds...he has the extra stabilization and weight carrying capacity that the air bags offer when he NEEDS it and with a push of a button its back in "stock'  mode. For what its worth I run a pair of Dodge 4x4 2500s...a 1996 that I bought new and a 1997...absolute work horses! The 1996 has a 8.0 under the hood with 216K on it and is a automatic and is my heavy duty hauler..you would cringe at what I have hauled and still haul with this old truck! I run a 360 in the other and it has a 4 speed granny manual in it...it will walk off with anything I ask it to...just a little slower than the big block! I have always ran quality 10 ply tires under them.No major repairs on either one...they just keep on ticking...must of got a couple lemons...lol


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## Ashful (May 21, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Here's an idea. Buy a 97-99 Chevy 2500. Put new motor Tranny rear end front end and bearings in it , for around 8000. It will be new again! And then use the money you saved to trade the sedan in on a hellcat or demon!


You seem to be under impression that my choice of an SRT 392 had something to do with budget, or that wasting an enormous amount of time on an antique pickup truck to save a few dollars might factor in to my budget, but it does not.  The reality is that the Hellcat does not have some of the options I was able to get in an SRT 392, and I didn't see much point in buying a far less reliable (but faster) car to strap to booster seats in the back and use as a kid hauler, which is what that car is for me.

Likewise, I could afford a new 2500, but do not want one.  The 1500 is the perfect truck for my needs, namely getting the kids to school and me to work on snow days when I don't want to drive the SRT, and occasionally hauling my 7000 lb. trailer 10 miles or my boat trailer (only 1500 lb) longer distances.  The 1500 with the 5.7L Hemi, 8HP70 trans, and 3.92 rear is far more fun and sporting to drive, than an antique 2500 with hauling capacity I do not need.

I went used because I found one with 9500 miles, and only put maybe 1000 - 1500 miles per year on this truck myself.  When I am forced to sell this truck because it is rusting out at age 10 or 12 years, it will have under 20k - 25k miles on it.  What's the point of paying an extra $12k to buy new, when that's the usage profile?

Everyone's circumstances and needs are different, so I'm not criticizing yours, just stating that what I got is the right choice for my needs and circumstances.


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## Lloyd the redneck (May 21, 2017)

Right but 1-2k a year does not justify the 10000$ a year depreciation. That's all I'm saying. If you got money to burn. Burn it.


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## bholler (May 21, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Right but 1-2k a year does not justify the 10000$ a year depreciation. That's all I'm saying. If you got money to burn. Burn it.


The problem in pa with older trucks like you mention has ansolutly nothing to do with drive train.  You can find lots of trucks with pretty nice drive lines but finding one without rustholes in the body or a bad frame is allot more of a chalenge.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 22, 2017)

Do we get pics???


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## Ashful (May 22, 2017)

bholler said:


> The problem in pa with older trucks like you mention has ansolutly nothing to do with drive train.  You can find lots of trucks with pretty nice drive lines but finding one without rustholes in the body or a bad frame is allot more of a chalenge.



Exactatically.  My last truck had very low miles, and not a single mechanical problem, but the door corners, rear fenders, and rear bumper were completely rusting out.


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## Ashful (May 22, 2017)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> Do we get pics???



Not very exciting, just a used pickup truck, but since you asked:


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## Ashful (May 22, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Right but 1-2k a year does not justify the 10000$ a year depreciation. That's all I'm saying. If you got money to burn. Burn it.



How on earth do you get anywhere near $10k depreciation per year on a used truck?  Depreciation on this 2015 truck will be approximately $2k per year, averaged over the next 10 years.  Even the original owner only averaged under $6k per year for the first two years, assuming they paid near Invoice price, and not MSRP.


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## Lloyd the redneck (May 22, 2017)

Because a 5-6 year old 60-70k vehicle sells for 14k in my area


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## maple1 (May 23, 2017)

I don't think he paid 60-70 for it.

You guys in other rust areas ever hear of Rust Check? Krown? etc...? Anyone in rust areas should be using it, it's almost one of those 'no brainers'.


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## Ashful (May 23, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I don't think he paid 60-70 for it.


Exactly.  In fact, less than half that!  



Lloyd the redneck said:


> Because a 5-6 year old 60-70k vehicle sells for 14k in my area


The current 12-year old equivalent of that truck with the sort of mileage and usage I'll put on it trades in around $8k today, which accounting for 3% average inflation, will be $11,700 in 2027.  I paid less than $20k over that, translating to less than $2k per year, averaged over the ten years I'm likely to keep it.

I am not sure why you are comparing my $30k used truck, which was only $42k back when it was new, to a $70k vehicle.


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## Bad LP (May 23, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I don't think he paid 60-70 for it.
> 
> You guys in other rust areas ever hear of Rust Check? Krown? etc...? Anyone in rust areas should be using it, it's almost one of those 'no brainers'.



Fluid Film is commonly used but it's kind of light. I have a guy spray a product from New Hampshire Undercoating (or something like that) it comes clear or black. Hit all the frame areas and fasteners plus inside the rockers. Black makes the truck frame look brand new.


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## Ashful (May 23, 2017)

The question du jour is whether to dump the new Flowmaster kit out the back under the bumper, or out the sides behind the rear wheels.  So many arguments for going each way, many centering on whether the vehicle will be used for trailering.

Those who like rear exhaust think it looks sportier, and I agree, but I might be tempted to swap to a bumper with tailpipe cutouts if I go that route.  Those who prefer side exhaust say the rear pipes will asphyxiate you while hooking up your trailer, and they reflect too much noise into the cabin when pulling solid-wall trailers.  There's also a concern about blowing dirty condensation on your pretty white racing boat with rear exhaust, which is an issue for me, if it's even a real occurance.


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## blacktail (May 23, 2017)

A friend at work has a newer ram with a hemi and flowmasters. It's one MEAN sounding package.


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## Jazzberry (May 24, 2017)

Ive had side exhaust on a couple vehicles but I never towed with them. I don't care for the sound of half a V8. It just don't sound right to me. Sounds much better when you hear both pipes.


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## Ashful (May 24, 2017)

Jazzberry said:


> Ive had side exhaust on a couple vehicles but I never towed with them. I don't care for the sound of half a V8. It just don't sound right to me. Sounds much better when you hear both pipes.


True, but this is not an isolated dual pipe system.  There's a Y-pipe off the collectors, to a single mid-pipe and muffler, with two outlets off the muffler.  So, you wouldn't have that classic "half-V8" sound on either side.


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## Bad LP (May 24, 2017)

I don't want to hear that crap "it sounds cool" unless I'm in something that spells "youareinmyway". 

Owned and built a few of that model. Flowmaster does not make it fast.


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## Ashful (May 24, 2017)

Bad LP said:


> I don't want to hear that crap "it sounds cool" unless I'm in something that spells "youareinmyway".
> 
> Owned and built a few of that model. Flowmaster does not make it fast.


Geez, you really do sound miserable.  Of course it's not fast, it's a pickup truck.

As far as pickups go, it's faster than most, but it is what it is.  Of course, that doesn't mean you need to have a problem with anyone wanting to put a Flowmaster on it.  They don't add much to any car running a street top end, either.


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## Bad LP (May 25, 2017)

It's not fast. It's a Dodge.


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## Ashful (May 25, 2017)

Bad LP said:


> It's not fast. It's a Dodge.


Lol... if you think I'm a brand loyalist who even cares about such things, you're wasting your time.  I own Dodge for only one reason, and that is I drive past a Dodge dealer on my way to work every morning.

But, since I do read the news, I've picked up a few things:

The Hellcat Charger is the fastest and quickest sedan in the world, beating out the $130k AMG E63 for under $65k.  The Dodge Demon is currently the fastest production car in the world, period.  The SRT-10 was the fastest pickup in the world, while Dodge was producing it.

My fastest car was a Ford, which ran a best 9.81s quarter, but it was a kids car with a cheap POS interior.  I hope they've improved in the 30 years, since.


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## Tar12 (May 25, 2017)

Bad LP said:


> It's not fast. It's a Dodge.


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## bholler (May 25, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The Dodge Demon is currently the fastest production car in the world, period.


No not period it is the fastest 0-60 that is it not the fastest in any other respect.



Ashful said:


> The Hellcat Charger is the fastest and quickest sedan in the world


the tesla p90d model s is much faster to 60
the Porsche Panamera Turbo is faster in just about every respect.


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## bholler (May 25, 2017)

To be clear i am not saying anything bad about the dodges at all for the money they are quite possibly the best but what you said was not that accurate.  Other than the srt10 that was an amazing but pretty useless truck


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## Ashful (May 26, 2017)

bholler said:


> To be clear i am not saying anything bad about the dodges at all for the money they are quite possibly the best but what you said was not that accurate.  Other than the srt10 that was an amazing but pretty useless truck


Hey man, no worries.  I'm not a fanboy, or easily offended.  I agree the SRT-10 was a frustrating miss, releasing possibly the most amazing power plant ever put in a pickup truck, but only offering it in 2wd?!?  What the hell...

But, to keep the debate going...



bholler said:


> the tesla p90d model s is much faster to 60
> the Porsche Panamera Turbo is faster in just about every respect.


The Tesla S P90D is indeed a formidable car, but it's also an electric car that tops out fast (good 0-60, not much beyond that), and costs almost 2x more than the Hellcat.  Also, on what planet is the Porsche's top speed of 191 mph faster than the Hellcat Charger's 203 mph?  Did I misread the spec's?

What's most interesting to me is that every car to which the Hellcat Charger is compared, most notably the $130k Mercedes AMG E63 (which is the closest legit comparison), are all $100k+ cars.  Dunno if you've sat in any SRT car, but my last four cars have been Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, and Volvo, and Dodge/SRT has beat them all on interior, features, and performance at half the price.  Very impressive.


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## bholler (May 26, 2017)

Ashful said:


> The Tesla S P90D is indeed a formidable car, but it's also an electric car that tops out fast (good 0-60, not much beyond that), and costs almost 2x more than the Hellcat.


It is limited to 155 that is quite a bit beyond 60 and it get there in only 29 seconds



Ashful said:


> Also, on what planet is the Porsche's top speed of 191 mph faster than the Hellcat Charger's 203 mph? Did I misread the spec's?


No top speed of the hellcat is faster but the Porsche accelerates faster has faster lap times brakes better ect.  Like I said it is faster in just about every respect.  And if it wasnt limited it may have a higher top speed




Ashful said:


> What's most interesting to me is that every car to which the Hellcat Charger is compared, most notably the $130k Mercedes AMG E63 (which is the closest legit comparison), are all $100k+ cars.


Yes I agree completely and I said that above for the money they may be the best around.


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## salecker (May 28, 2017)

Bad LP said:


> It's not fast. It's a Dodge.


It will get faster as parts fall off and the rust lightens the truck,if it's still running by then


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## salecker (May 28, 2017)

I'v got a friend that has a 15 Dodge with the Hemi
So far he has replaced front axles,front tie rod ends,front bearings,fuel pump and rear brakes and rotors.And it has the "Hemi Tick"
My wifes 03 GMC with 140K miles,front brakes and rotors,1 front wheelbearing.


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## Bad LP (May 28, 2017)

salecker said:


> It will get faster as parts fall off and the rust lightens the truck,if it's still running by then



I need to remember that line!! Thanks.


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## Ashful (May 28, 2017)

salecker said:


> I'v got a friend that has a 15 Dodge with the Hemi
> So far he has replaced front axles,front tie rod ends,front bearings,fuel pump and rear brakes and rotors.And it has the "Hemi Tick"
> My wifes 03 GMC with 140K miles,front brakes and rotors,1 front wheelbearing.



3 years bumper to bumper + 7 years powertrain warranty, so I assume this is under warranty.  My 12 year old dodge never needed anything beyond tires, fluids, and filters.  Would still be driving it now, if the body hadn't started rusting at age 12.  Not a surprise, I only drive it on snow days and rain days, it sits outdoors unused most of the time.  

I had a Chevy 1500 before it, and the damn thing spent more days in the shop for repairs each year than any other vehicle I've ever owned.  The Ford was before that, and was more reliable, but it was disintegrating with rust.

Thankfully, they're all better today, than those POSs we owned in the past.


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## bholler (May 28, 2017)

Ashful said:


> 3 years bumper to bumper + 7 years powertrain warranty, so I assume this is under warranty.  My 12 year old dodge never needed anything beyond tires, fluids, and filters.  Would still be driving it now, if the body hadn't started rusting at age 12.  Not a surprise, I only drive it on snow days and rain days, it sits outdoors unused most of the time.
> 
> I had a Chevy 1500 before it, and the damn thing spent more days in the shop for repairs each year than any other vehicle I've ever owned.  The Ford was before that, and was more reliable, but it was disintegrating with rust.
> 
> Thankfully, they're all better today, than those POSs we owned in the past.


We have had a couple dodge vans and a couple dodge truck.  We had an 80s dodge 3/4 ton truck that was a tank.  Went to 240000 and we sold it still running good.  Next dodge was a late 90s 2500 and it took constant front end work and 2 differentials before 100000.  The first van was an 01 pretty good till 100000 the rear went.  Tranny at about 120 then rear started making noise again around 140.  Next van was an 06 and a total pos.  Motor went at 40000 replaced under warantee.  Tranny went at 65000.  Differential at 80000.  And motor again at 107000 and we were done with dodge after that.  So i am not a fan of dodge any more it will take allot for me to buy one again


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## salecker (May 29, 2017)

Buy what works for you
I am a GM guy.Nothing but good luck with them.My wife drove a 97 Sunfire for 13 years.It now has 175K miles.
It got used every day weather it was -40 F or 100+ F.It never let her down and i would put a battery in it and drive it anywhere still.It had 30K miles when she got it,total list of parts while she drove it...
-2 sets of summer tires,2 sets of winter tires
-Head gasket
-Alternator 
-1 battery
- front brake pads and rotors
-air and fuel filters,and oil changes
-power steering line.
-headlight switch
 It is still on it's original fuel pump,rear brakes,all shocks and all front end.The tires still wear perfect,had an alignment done when the car was put back on the road.It was a rollover that i repaired paid $500 for the car.
 I told her she should look at cars to replace it,after a couple of months she decided she wanted another Sunfire.So i found a 05 the last year for them with less than 30K miles so she is set for the next 10 yrs if this car is as good as the last.


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## bholler (May 29, 2017)

It can be really hit or miss i have had fords with no problems and fords with tons of problems.  I have never had a gm that was all that bad but also never had one that was that great.  My most reliable car was a mitsubishi eclipse i put 220000 miles on it and it still ran good when i traded it at 290000 miles but the clutch was barely grabbing.  Also have had good luck with toyota and vw cars


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## Ashful (May 30, 2017)

Geez... you guys complaining about transmissions and motors going out after hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy use!  I will sell this truck before it has 30k miles on it.    Our usage is about as different as two drivers can get!


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## bholler (May 30, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Geez... you guys complaining about transmissions and motors going out after hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy use!  I will sell this truck before it has 30k miles on it.    Our usage is about as different as two drivers can get!


Yeah i know but the one dodge was only around 40000.  If we got rid of them beforr 30k we wouldnt make it a year.  I dont complain if i can get to 100k without any major repairs.  But with the last few dodges we had that was not the case.  And after the first motor in the second van we were told by dodge they would no longer honer the warantee because we abused the van by useing it with heavy loads and lots of yearly mileage.  Well i am sorry but that is what contractor vans get used for.


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## salecker (May 30, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Geez... you guys complaining about transmissions and motors going out after hundreds of thousands of miles of heavy use!  I will sell this truck before it has 30k miles on it.    Our usage is about as different as two drivers can get!


I rarely sell any daily drivers,they get used till there is nothing left.
I sell lots of used cars/trucks from impound and ones that get repaired.Not very often that i upgrade a daily driver i have been driving my truck for 14 yrs


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## Ashful (May 30, 2017)

I also keep my vehicles 10+ years, salecker, but put less than 2k miles on my truck per year, only using it for bad weather or hauling.  I do more like 5k miles on my car each year, which still doesn't amount to much over 10 - 12 years.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 30, 2017)

Geee my daily driver is a 2008 Tacoma with 308,000 miles so far.....
I use it


Road Trip !


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## Ashful (May 30, 2017)

They used to design refrigerators and kitchen ranges so that they'd last 50 years.  The trouble is, folks would still want to replace them after 15 years, due to advances in features and changing styles.  I see vehicles as the same, excepting those using them for their business, they may have mechanical lifetimes that long outlive their desirability.


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## bholler (May 30, 2017)

Ashful said:


> They used to design refrigerators and kitchen ranges so that they'd last 50 years.  The trouble is, folks would still want to replace them after 15 years, due to advances in features and changing styles.  I see vehicles as the same, excepting those using them for their business, they may have mechanical lifetimes that long outlive their desirability.


That is only true for a percentage of people many of us dont care that much if the features are outdated.  As long as it starts every day and gets me where i need to go without taking to much work i am happy.  Also on our daily drivers my wife and i both put on atleast 20k a year so even if we bought new which we dont in 10 years we will have 200k on our cars.  And they usually start taking to much work before that point.  We do both have other fun vehiles that dont get much use though.  She has an MGA and a cherokee cheif.  I have my old ford beater truck and an old j10.  None of them see much use other than my ford it sees 3 to 4k a year


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## Jazzberry (May 30, 2017)

I am a hardcore GM fan but I had a an 01 Dodge 4x4 2500 with a 6 speed manual tranny. I bought it for $18k used with 40k miles. Sold it in 2013 with 270,000 on it for almost $17k. Best truck by far that  Ive owned over my 46 years of driving and I have had a ton of different trucks. Wouldn't touch a new one with a ten foot pole though.


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## jatoxico (May 30, 2017)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> Geee my daily driver is a 2008 Tacoma with 308,000 miles so far.....
> I use it
> View attachment 197701
> 
> ...



At 300K I'm guessing the horse is plan B?


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## Ashful (May 30, 2017)

bholler said:


> That is only true for a percentage of people many of us dont care that much if the features are outdated.  As long as it starts every day and gets me where i need to go without taking to much work i am happy.  Also on our daily drivers my wife and i both put on atleast 20k a year so even if we bought new which we dont in 10 years we will have 200k on our cars.  And they usually start taking to much work before that point.  We do both have other fun vehiles that dont get much use though.  She has an MGA and a cherokee cheif.  I have my old ford beater truck and an old j10.  None of them see much use other than my ford it sees 3 to 4k a year


Cool!  Pics of MGA and J10, when you get a chance!


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## bholler (May 30, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Cool! Pics of MGA and J10, when you get a chance!


Ill get some rounded up her mga is in jersey at her parents now I don't have a garage at this house i was using my buddies but he moved.  But we might be buying a new house with lots of garage space


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## Bad LP (May 30, 2017)

Jazzberry said:


> I am a hardcore GM fan but I had a an 01 Dodge 4x4 2500 with a 6 speed manual tranny. I bought it for $18k used with 40k miles. Sold it in 2013 with 270,000 on it for almost $17k. Best truck by far that  Ive owned over my 46 years of driving and I have had a ton of different trucks. Wouldn't touch a new one with a ten foot pole though.


You must have had a gun to the buyers head.


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## Jazzberry (May 30, 2017)

Look it up sa. They still cost that much today.


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## bholler (May 30, 2017)

Jazzberry said:


> Look it up sa. They still cost that much today.


yeah but $17k for a 13 year old pickup with 270k miles on it is insane.  Yeah the drive line in them is fantastic but the rest of the truck is beat at that mileage and age.  Good for you for getting that much but I cant see why anyone would pay that much for a truck like that.


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## jatoxico (May 30, 2017)

bholler said:


> She has an MGA and a cherokee cheif. I have my old ford beater truck and an old j10.



I have a Cherokee Sport (love/hate relationship) but the Chief is kind of a dream car of mine. Would never get one here though, too much rust. Buddy has a military J10. Cool truck.


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## bholler (May 30, 2017)

jatoxico said:


> I have a Cherokee Sport (love/hate relationship) but the Chief is kind of a dream car of mine. Would never get one here though, too much rust. Buddy has a military J10. Cool truck.


The chief is still pretty rusty but the j10 has it all fixed.  Still needs paint but is rust free and runs good.


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## jatoxico (May 30, 2017)

bholler said:


> The chief is still pretty rusty but the j10 has it all fixed.  Still needs paint but is rust free and runs good.


I fluid filmed my Sport to keep the rust at bay.


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## redyute (May 30, 2017)

This bad boy handles all my towing needs 2016 2500 turbo diesel


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