# Renting a firewood processor



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2019)

When it rains, it pours.  Thanks to a recent tornado, I’ve brought home roughly 6 cords in the last week, and you can’t even tell I took anything from the church property I help to manage.  There must be close to 200 cords down there, and to help them get rid of the stuff, I’m committing to take 20-30 cords of it this month.

Trouble is, I’m having to stack it in some pretty inconvenient places, as my home wood lot isn’t really set up to store 30 cords in the form of 15-foot logs.  I need to get this stuff processed and stacked.  

Any advice on renting a firewood processor?  I’m in southeast PA, if anyone can recommend an outfit.  If not, I just need to get a good sense of what will work for me, and what questions to ask, or arrangements to make, when I call around on the hunt.  Even my super-fast hot-rodded hydraulic splitter is going to be too slow, to get this volume of wood done in any reasonable time.


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## blades (Jul 25, 2019)

one heck of a problem to have.  I do not know about renting a processor-never seen anything listed that way- perhaps a short term  lease?  There is a firm not far from me that advertises processing- but I have never inquired.  As the smaller ones are some what mobile that might be your option- at what cost though?


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## Ashful (Jul 25, 2019)

Oh, they definitely rent them by the day, either with or without an operator.  I need to check with a former co-worker, who rented one locally last year.  I remember they were processing a similar amount of wood, with the goal to get it done in one weekend, and I think they did over 20 cords per day with one guy managing the infeed and a second managing the output.  In their case, the finances of it made sense, and I suspect I could justify it as well, given the amount of wood I’m piling here.

The one they rented lacked an input conveyor, they had to use one of their large farm tractors to set the logs onto a carriage about 6 feet off the ground, so that may not be the machine for me.  But at least it’s a point of reference, and one potential source.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Jul 25, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Oh, they definitely rent them by the day, either with or without an operator.  I need to check with a former co-worker, who rented one locally last year.  I remember they were processing a similar amount of wood, with the goal to get it done in one weekend, and I think they did over 20 cords per day with one guy managing the infeed and a second managing the output.  In their case, the finances of it made sense, and I suspect I could justify it as well, given the amount of wood I’m piling here.
> 
> The one they rented lacked an input conveyor, they had to use one of their large farm tractors to set the logs onto a carriage about 6 feet off the ground, so that may not be the machine for me.  But at least it’s a point of reference, and one potential source.


https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/hvd/d/firewood-processor-sales-rentals/6928987623.html


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## brenndatomu (Jul 25, 2019)

To really keep a processor busy (to its potential capacity) it almost takes 3-4 guys...one to operate the machine, one to load logs, and one or two to assist the other guys.If your coworker did 20 cords with 2 guys they must have had almost the ideal setup all the way around.
"Straight" logs help too...anything too crooked or large really slows things down.
BTW, the machine we had out was a Dyna...


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## bholler (Jul 25, 2019)

Ashful said:


> When it rains, it pours.  Thanks to a recent tornado, I’ve brought home roughly 6 cords in the last week, and you can’t even tell I took anything from the church property I help to manage.  There must be close to 200 cords down there, and to help them get rid of the stuff, I’m committing to take 20-30 cords of it this month.
> 
> Trouble is, I’m having to stack it in some pretty inconvenient places, as my home wood lot isn’t really set up to store 30 cords in the form of 15-foot logs.  I need to get this stuff processed and stacked.
> 
> Any advice on renting a firewood processor?  I’m in southeast PA, if anyone can recommend an outfit.  If not, I just need to get a good sense of what will work for me, and what questions to ask, or arrangements to make, when I call around on the hunt.  Even my super-fast hot-rodded hydraulic splitter is going to be too slow, to get this volume of wood done in any reasonable time.


I am thinking about renting one next year when I get a new load of logs in.


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## Ashful (Jul 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> To really keep a processor busy (to its potential capacity) it almost takes 3-4 guys...one to operate the machine, one to load logs, and one or two to assist the other guys.If your coworker did 20 cords with 2 guys they must have had almost the ideal setup all the way around.
> "Straight" logs help too...anything too crooked or large really slows things down.
> BTW, the machine we had out was a Dyna...



Good info!  They actually had 3 on-site, with a part-time 4th.  But I believe one of the full-time three was mostly operating their traditional splitter, working the pile of stuff that wasn’t suitable for the processor.  I might have misunderstood his description of their work, but that’s how I understood it.


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## Highbeam (Jul 25, 2019)

Be careful about hiring neighbor kids. This is unsafe work and you’ll be in a hurry. Could be financially horrible if someone gets hurt.


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## Ashful (Jul 25, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Be careful about hiring neighbor kids. This is unsafe work and you’ll be in a hurry. Could be financially horrible if someone gets hurt.



Good point.  I wasn’t planning on hiring any, but it’s still good to add, for others reading this thread.


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## Eureka (Jul 25, 2019)

Craigslist ad here; guy will come to your location for $35/cord if you load his processor with your equipment.  $50/cord if he uses his skid steer to load it.  
I’ve seen others advertise $75/hour if you load.  2 cords/ hour average.

A processor leasing/rental outfit advertises $400/day and $1600/week for a 24’ Brute Force with conveyor.  Average 2-3 cord/hour, you do all the work.


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## Ashful (Jul 25, 2019)

Great numbers.  Thanks!


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## Poindexter (Aug 12, 2019)

Late to the party.  Are none of these logs worth milling into planks to air dry for seasoned dimension lumber later?  Just asking.  Now that I don't live back east, I now appreciate all the fine hard woods from back east, hard maple, hickory, ash, white oak, red oak, all very expensive to ship to Alaska for making cabinets and cutting boards.  Walnut.  Eastern White Pine.  Apple.  Cherry.  Sycamore.

I get that space is a premium at Ashful's place.  Is there room at the church yard to air dry some board feet of good stuff to help pay for a new sidewalk or something in a couple years?  The guys with the trailer mounted band saw mills should be going bananas.


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## Ashful (Aug 12, 2019)

Yes, about 140-160 cords of the wood is being milled on-site by a local tall ship restoration group, and what is not useable by them for their ship (essentially all of the white oak) or scaffolding, is going to be donated by them to another local organization that restores log cabins.  The 40-60 cords that have been left for me and one other guy is the “junk” that isn’t worth milling.

Did I mention we had a “few” trees come down?  [emoji3]


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## Poindexter (Aug 13, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Did I mention we had a “few” trees come down?  [emoji3]



I believe "a few" is indeed exactly what you said.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 14, 2019)

So did you ever rent the processor if so how did you make out with it


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So did you ever rent the processor if so how did you make out with it


Not yet.  If I end up doing this, it will be this fall or winter.  I've been plugging away at some of it on my own splitter, in the mean time, but I'm not making a ton of progress.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 15, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Not yet.  If I end up doing this, it will be this fall or winter.  I've been plugging away at some of it on my own splitter, in the mean time, but I'm not making a ton of progress.


Id be intrested on some info on renting and how you made out


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## Ashful (Aug 15, 2019)

A buddy rented one last year, so I already have his feedback on that.  More later.


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## Highbeam (Aug 24, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Not yet.  If I end up doing this, it will be this fall or winter.  I've been plugging away at some of it on my own splitter, in the mean time, but I'm not making a ton of progress.


But your hot rod splitter is super fast! You mean there’s more to speed than just the stroke time?


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## Ashful (Aug 25, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> But your hot rod splitter is super fast! You mean there’s more to speed than just the stroke time?


Nope.  I can still do more with my splitter than just about anyone else with their 22-ton hydrualic.  But when trying to process 10 cords in a day, you need more than a single splitter.

I've been spending so much time on hauling, I haven't had more than an hour here or there to split.  We finally have one property cleaned up to the point where the rest can sit another year, but I have a second property that I've barely started.  We are talking multiple dozens of cords, here.


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## Bushels20 (Aug 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Nope.  I can still do more with my splitter than just about anyone else with their 22-ton hydrualic.  But when trying to process 10 cords in a day, you need more than a single splitter.
> 
> I've been spending so much time on hauling, I haven't had more than an hour here or there to split.  We finally have one property cleaned up to the point where the rest can sit another year, but I have a second property that I've barely started.  We are talking multiple dozens of cords, here.




Post some photos once you get this thing rented and the cords split. Would be cool to see. 

I have a farmer up the street who turns a pile of logs that I would estimate to be 100 feet long by 50 feet high into firewood in a weekend. It’s impressive. He then sells it for $220 a cord (not delivered).


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## mar13 (Nov 26, 2019)

I just finished watching some YouTube  videos  of commercial wood processors,  not knowing what they were. They made my scrounging seem like a joke.


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## Ashful (Nov 26, 2019)

Bushels20 said:


> Post some photos once you get this thing rented and the cords split. Would be cool to see.
> 
> I have a farmer up the street who turns a pile of logs that I would estimate to be 100 feet long by 50 feet high into firewood in a weekend. It’s impressive. He then sells it for $220 a cord (not delivered).



Unfortunately, the stars did not align for me this year. I had four major unplanned projects pop up in rapid succession over the last two month, and now here we are at Thanksgiving, the week I had planned to rent this thing. I’ve been working on crap, often outdoors in the dark, until pretty near midnight (sometimes beyond) almost every night since September. Then back up at 6a to head to work on weekdays, or for a sunrise to sundown work day outdoors on weekends. It just hasn’t left me the time required to get prep’d for the processor.

I hit my limit last weekend, and decided to take today and tomorrow off from work, burning two vacation days. Today I’ll be finally moving one of my half dozen planned new 4-cord wood racks into place, and hopefully starting to fill it. The rain cut my work short on Saturday night, and Sunday was a wash-out here. This was last Saturday afternoon:







I’ve got plenty of wood waiting to go into it. 






Some of you may remember the small prototype rack I built back in summer, that’s now installed and loaded on high ground near my barn, so I won’t be caught completely without wood if we have another wet spell this winter. 






That tractor has been the source of a few of those major unplanned projects, a new and larger one is on order.  It is setup to take a grapple, and can lift over a ton, so that will help with the processor if I ever get there.


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## Chas0218 (Nov 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Oh, they definitely rent them by the day, either with or without an operator.  I need to check with a former co-worker, who rented one locally last year.  I remember they were processing a similar amount of wood, with the goal to get it done in one weekend, and I think they did over 20 cords per day with one guy managing the infeed and a second managing the output.  In their case, the finances of it made sense, and I suspect I could justify it as well, given the amount of wood I’m piling here.
> 
> The one they rented lacked an input conveyor, they had to use one of their large farm tractors to set the logs onto a carriage about 6 feet off the ground, so that may not be the machine for me.  But at least it’s a point of reference, and one potential source.


Maybe swing it so the church would rent it and sell the wood after you've acquired what you want? I wish I could come across that kind of wood, but then again if I did I know it would end up being all my trees that came down.


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## Jags (Nov 26, 2019)

Bigger tractor....I like the sounds of that,
The loader on my backhoe has a 6200# lift.  Working with firewood it never struggles.


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## Chas0218 (Nov 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Unfortunately, the stars did not align for me this year. I had four major unplanned projects pop up in rapid succession over the last two month, and now here we are at Thanksgiving, the week I had planned to rent this thing. I’ve been working on crap, often outdoors in the dark, until pretty near midnight (sometimes beyond) almost every night since September. Then back up at 6a to head to work on weekdays, or for a sunrise to sundown work day outdoors on weekends. It just hasn’t left me the time required to get prep’d for the processor.
> 
> I hit my limit last weekend, and decided to take today and tomorrow off from work, burning two vacation days. Today I’ll be finally moving one of my half dozen planned new 4-cord wood racks into place, and hopefully starting to fill it. The rain cut my work short on Saturday night, and Sunday was a wash-out here. This was last Saturday afternoon:
> 
> ...


I see you have some really nice wood in there! Some Ash, Hickory, Black Walnut, I think that was Oak too. Man that is quite the haul very jealous.


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## Ashful (Nov 26, 2019)

Most of what came down was white oak and hickory. We sold almost all of the white oak to a company that is restoring a tall ship in Philadelphia, and I took about half the hickory. I did get a few pieces of white oak, and the ash cane from a friend just a few doors down from the church. He has another 6-8 cord of ash down, all big stuff, as soon as I can move some of what I have out of my way. 

A very large fraction of that church’s yearly operating budget comes out of my pocket, so getting them to pay for the processor would be counterproductive in all ways other than a little tax deduction. I’m just trying to help them by moving this wood out of their way, I definitely didn’t want or need all of this small wood. It takes me 3+ hours to haul a cord of 8” logs, but only one hour to haul and unload the same amount as one 30” log.

The new tractor is a 3033R with a 320 loader.  It’s right in the cusp of being too large for lawn work, but it will definitely ease my snow removal and wood hauling operations.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Unfortunately, the stars did not align for me this year. I had four major unplanned projects pop up in rapid succession over the last two month, and now here we are at Thanksgiving, the week I had planned to rent this thing. I’ve been working on crap, often outdoors in the dark, until pretty near midnight (sometimes beyond) almost every night since September. Then back up at 6a to head to work on weekdays, or for a sunrise to sundown work day outdoors on weekends. It just hasn’t left me the time required to get prep’d for the processor.
> 
> I hit my limit last weekend, and decided to take today and tomorrow off from work, burning two vacation days. Today I’ll be finally moving one of my half dozen planned new 4-cord wood racks into place, and hopefully starting to fill it. The rain cut my work short on Saturday night, and Sunday was a wash-out here. This was last Saturday afternoon:
> 
> ...


Glad to see you finally decided on your shed scheme.  You were very thoughtful, and considered many different  ideas before your final decision.  Four cords and aesthetically pleasing.  And I would pressume it avoids the pesky wetland  issue that you were grappling with.  I hope I can decide on something permanent and commit to it at some point, as well.


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## Ashful (Nov 26, 2019)

Easy Livin’ 3000 said:


> Glad to see you finally decided on your shed scheme. You were very thoughtful, and considered many different ideas before your final decision. Four cords and aesthetically pleasing. And I would pressume it avoids the pesky wetland issue that you were grappling with. I hope I can decide on something permanent and commit to it at some point, as well.



Thanks! Yes, I think I’m just barely skirting on the right side of legality, here.  These are just big “firewood racks”, not “sheds”, if anyone is asking. I would need 2.5 of these per year, at my present burn rate, but I’m toying with the idea of replacing the more lightly-used BK with a pellet stove. That would reduce my usage to 1.75 of these per year, and reduce my overall footprint from 7 or 8 of these units to 5 or 6 of them.

Most importantly, they will be arranged in one long row, so I can pull my wagon right along side of them, and quickly load one cord. There will be plenty of processing area around them, all mostly out of sight from the house, and completely out of sight from the street. Hiding the mess associated with wood processing, and giving myself more working space, we’re two ancillary goals of mine.


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## mar13 (Nov 27, 2019)

If there were  a reality TV show about firewood collectors, you'd make for a few great episodes!


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2019)

But where will you store the pellets? Just get a coal stove, it's probably cheaper and cleaner than pellets where you live.


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## Ashful (Nov 27, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> But where will you store the pellets? Just get a coal stove, it's probably cheaper and cleaner than pellets where you live.


I stopped at a local masonry/landscape place this morning, and they're a coal stove and coal dealer.  Maybe I should check it out.  I'm not in coal country, that's more central to western PA anymore, but coal was very popular here when I was younger.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I stopped at a local masonry/landscape place this morning, and they're a coal stove and coal dealer.  Maybe I should check it out.  I'm not in coal country, that's more central to western PA anymore, but coal was very popular here when I was younger.


It's not like the coal has far to go to get to your door even if it comes from another part of the state. Pellets have to be made and there is a lot of transportation involved. I really don't get pellets over coal.


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## Ashful (Nov 27, 2019)

Finished placing the wood rack this morning. 









Got a little cleanup work to do, then it’s time to start filling it!


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## Poindexter (Nov 27, 2019)

I just knew you owned a 48" level and knew how to use it.  I just knew it.

Would it be possible to bring the processor to the church property and just deal with splits?  When I was felling my own trees I went out of my way to handle the smallest possible piece every time.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Finished placing the wood rack this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That does look sharp. If you don't mind me asking how much do you have invested into this?


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## Ashful (Nov 29, 2019)

The rack itself was right around $1000, including all lumber, roofing materials, TimberLok fasteners, and enough galvanized framing, ring shank, and roofing nails to build a half dozen of these structures (5000 count boxes).  It could have been a lot less $$ if I didn't use all PT lumber, but I want these things to last, and I felt pretty good about that part of it.

Then I probably spent another $400 in masonry supplies for those plinths it is sitting on, which was entirely due to me getting behind schedule with some unplanned but necessary projects, and not taking time to really plan that part out.  I need to find a better, cheaper, and faster way to create some "temporary" pad to set the next few racks on.  The constraints are that I can't modify the soil, and must be able to easily remove it, which rules out pretty much any easy solution with gravel base.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2019)

Ashful said:


> The rack itself was right around $1000, including all lumber, roofing materials, TimberLok fasteners, and enough galvanized framing, ring shank, and roofing nails to build a half dozen of these structures (5000 count boxes).  It could have been a lot less $$ if I didn't use all PT lumber, but I want these things to last, and I felt pretty good about that part of it.
> 
> Then I probably spent another $400 in masonry supplies for those plinths it is sitting on, which was entirely due to me getting behind schedule with some unplanned but necessary projects, and not taking time to really plan that part out.  I need to find a better, cheaper, and faster way to create some "temporary" pad to set the next few racks on.  The constraints are that I can't modify the soil, and must be able to easily remove it, which rules out pretty much any easy solution with gravel base.


Thank you for sharing.  

Do you anticipate someone from the township or other govt agency inspecting these, regarding the constraints on soil disturbance?  Just a practical question.

I cast round concrete stepping stones, four at a time, last summer for a walkway.  One 80 lb bag for four stones.   You could probably get away using something like these, I'd probably just cast 2 per bag, and try either 12 or 16 laid out in a grid under the shed.  At  $4.45 a bag, you would only spend $35.60 on the base, if you went with 16.  It'd be a fun project with the kids to have them "help" with the casting and levelling.  If you have a cement mixer, it'd be minimal labor.  I didn't add any wire for reinforcement, but you might want to for this purpose.

I use three cinder blocks under each half-cord stack (8 x 6 x 1.333), laid right on the soil surface, with just a little soil movement for levelling, and they seem to do just fine.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 29, 2019)

Great data. My wife and I still have no idea how we want to deal with long term wood storage.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2019)

I think it would be super cool to have multiple smaller versions of these, set up so a flatbed trailer could be backed under the base.   Then, just move the whole thing next to the porch when each one is emptied.  Probably would need to consider structural reinforcement of the framing if trying to move a cord worth of weight.  

Currently sort-of do this with two old garden carts and a wheelbarrow, but my roofs are tarps.  

Not suggesting this for you, Ashful, you spent enough time deciding on your perfect solution, and they are very nice.  Just contemplating for myself.


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## Ashful (Nov 29, 2019)

Easy Livin’ 3000 said:


> Do you anticipate someone from the township or other govt agency inspecting these, regarding the constraints on soil disturbance? Just a practical question.


It’s very unlikely, but if I built the 24’ x 36’ pole pavilion I had originally planned in lieu of these, or if I had even put these in permanent bases, the impact of having the township happen upon them could be severe. With these, as much as a PITA as it would be, I can relatively empty and move one, if I need to prove it’s just a temporary wood rack. At 4 psi maximum loading, they shouldn’t even leave much of an impression in the soil, I hope. 



Easy Livin’ 3000 said:


> I cast round concrete stepping stones, four at a time, last summer for a walkway. One 80 lb bag for four stones. You could probably get away using something like these, I'd probably just cast 2 per bag, and try either 12 or 16 laid out in a grid under the shed. At $4.45 a bag, you would only spend $35.60 on the base, if you went with 16. It'd be a fun project with the kids to have them "help" with the casting and levelling. If you have a cement mixer, it'd be minimal labor. I didn't add any wire for reinforcement, but you might want to for this purpose.


It’s funny you mention this, as that was my original plan. I still have the 16” sonotube in my barn to prove it! In the end, I guessed that using precast block was easier and quicker, but I’m not sure I was right on that. As to cost, I was aiming to have at least 8 square feet for each of my five footers, and height varies up to 10 inches. I used about 140 of those 2x8x16 dimensional blocks, so just shy of 17 cu.ft., or 2700 lb = $150 (local price @ 80 lb bags) of Quik-Crete. Definitely cheaper, but... the time!



Easy Livin’ 3000 said:


> I use three cinder blocks under each half-cord stack (8 x 6 x 1.333), laid right on the soil surface, with just a little soil movement for levelling, and they seem to do just fine.


I started with dry stacking the 2” block, which gave me the ability to level the bases in small increments. I’d have liked to use 4” and 8” blocks in the taller plinths, but that would have required a lot more thought or the addition of 3-8” mortar to each block, to make the heights of the three block heights evenly divisible. All of these blocks are dimensional, not full 2” or 8”, to allow for mortar joint thickness. 


Easy Livin’ 3000 said:


> I think it would be super cool to have multiple smaller versions of these, set up so a flatbed trailer could be backed under the base. Then, just move the whole thing next to the porch when each one is emptied. Probably would need to consider structural reinforcement of the framing if trying to move a cord worth of weight.


You mean, like this? [emoji3]


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2019)

Ashful said:


> It’s very unlikely, but if I built the 24’ x 36’ pole pavilion I had originally planned in lieu of these, or if I had even put these in permanent bases, the impact of having the township happen upon them could be severe. With these, as much as a PITA as it would be, I can relatively empty and move one, if I need to prove it’s just a temporary wood rack. At 4 psi maximum loading, they shouldn’t even leave much of an impression in the soil, I hope.
> 
> 
> It’s funny you mention this, as that was my original plan. I still have the 16” sonotube in my barn to prove it! In the end, I guessed that using precast block was easier and quicker, but I’m not sure I was right on that. As to cost, I was aiming to have at least 8 square feet for each of my five footers, and height varies up to 10 inches. I used about 140 of those 2x8x16 dimensional blocks, so just shy of 17 cu.ft., or 2700 lb = $150 (local price @ 80 lb bags) of Quik-Crete. Definitely cheaper, but... the time!
> ...


Exactly like that, also movable when loaded, and perhaps these are!  I'd need a little different configuration, as I'd be moving them with a trailer rather that forks on a strong tractor, but identical in concept.
	

		
			
		

		
	







My cart is up on blocks to level and keep air in the tires.  When this load of shoulder season uglies and shorts is gone, it'll be loaded much higher.  When leaf season is over, I'll have another cart set up identically.  

The other shots are the three cinder blocks/half cord concept, from two angles, and then the stepping stones mentioned before.  

Not nearly as lovely, but functional on a smaller scale.


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## Sawset (Nov 29, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Finished placing the wood rack this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One thing I found, is when using shallow pads like that, and tall risers like on the roof supports, if any part of it starts to settle, it doesn't necessarily lean, but racks instead. It's easy to put cinch wires on the ends to pull the diagonals back in to make it all vertical again. I have something similar, but half the width. One side (the back pads) settled a couple inches. At first I thought it would start to tip, but realized, no, rerack it vertical, minimal effort, so what if the back pads are lower. The pads could sink quite a ways and no one would notice. Otherwise, yours are all exposed to allow for shims, it it ever came to that too.


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## Simonkenton (Nov 29, 2019)

I am a firewood processor.  I am for rent, $35/ hour.


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## Ashful (Nov 29, 2019)

Simonkenton said:


> I am a firewood processor. I am for rent, $35/ hour.



Lol, I love it! But you’ve seen the pile I need to get thru, your pace may make this cost-prohibitive.


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## Chas0218 (Dec 3, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I need to find a better, cheaper, and faster way to create some "temporary" pad to set the next few racks on.


My neighbor did this using a contractor garbage bag in a 5 gallon pail filled with concrete. I'm betting if you filled the bucket halfway that would be enough. The bag allows it to come out easily or just fill up a bucket and use that.


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