# Drying/firewood processing



## Shane Collins (Sep 29, 2014)

I've been lurking on these forums for a while getting a lot of good info.  I made a thread before about a BK Ashford which is going to arrive on October 10.

I had a few questions about firewood processing and drying.  Last winter I ordered a load of log length firewood.  I was told it was roughly 6 cords and paid $700 for it which seems not too bad to me.  It was a mix of mostly cherry, maple, beech and some red oak.  I split it in January and stacked it in single rows in the most open and windy place I have on my land.  I've just started moving it into my wood shed and on fresh splits the moisture seems to range from 18-23% which seems good.

I'm trying to get a couple of years ahead and I want to process all my own wood and not need to buy it again.  We have 23 acres of woodland around our house so we've no shortage of tress.  I started cutting and I've cut, split and stacked about two cords so far for next winter. And I wanted to know how you guys do it who have your own wood lots.

Do you think it's best to haul the wood out and c,s,s it in the same area each year and then move it into the shed once dry? Do any of you c,s,s it in the woods and leave it to season in the woods and bring it out after a year or so of seasoning?

At the moment I have no means of hauling the firewood out of the woods.  This weekend I cut the logs to size and carried them out by hand.  Good exercise!  Next year I'm going to get a quad bike with a trailer so I can use that to haul the wood out.

Thanks for any help and advice.


----------



## Ashful (Sep 29, 2014)

The woods is a tough place to season firewood, with poor sunlight, humidity, and wind factors.  I fell and limb in the woods, then drag out 10-foot or longer sections with a tractor (Ford 3000).  Buck to length and load in my trailer at a landing outside the woods, then cart it to where I do my processing and stacking.


----------



## lindnova (Sep 29, 2014)

I pull mine out of the woods, split and stack on pallets in the sun and wind and I will periodically mow around it.  It usually sits there for 2-3 years before being moved.  The one exception is box elder.  I usually leave it stacked wherever I cut it along fence lines and use the next winter, but I am changing my ways as that hasn't worked out so well.  Anything in the woods or fence lines gets brush growing up around it and does not dry, especially if on a north facing hill or fence.  I have forgotten stacks also and by the time I find them they are not so good anymore.

The short answer is it is ok in the woods as long as it is off the ground (pallets or sacrificial timber) in an open area with some sunlight and wind.


----------



## Nick Mystic (Sep 29, 2014)

I have 11 acres of mixed hardwoods, primarily here in western NC. The property is very challenging to access with lots of ravines and dense woods, so most of my harvesting is carrying rounds out by hand, or dragging logs on a small sled I built and then pulling that out by hand. I don't like moving wood any more than I have to, so once I get my wood home I split it and stack it under cover where it seasons until ready for burning in three years. Most of my covered areas are up against a retainer wall and I stack my wood three rows deep. The open front faces south, so I get pretty good sun on the wood all year round. I know a lot of people here at the forum say to season your wood out in the open where it can get some wind and I'm sure that is a better method for quicker drying. However, I have covered storage for a three year supply and with my system most of my wood is actually ready to burn after two years.


----------



## Poindexter (Sep 29, 2014)

Last year my local BK dealer was saying "If your electronic moisture meter says 16% or less, that piece of wood is ok for your BK stove."  Local dealer - I dunno the company line.

The paper manual for my new this summer Ashford 30 says 13% or less MC per electronic gizmo.  I have been running 15% and less per my personal electronic gizmo with no trouble so far.

Also, best I idea I saw here, esp this late in the season... stick some pipe on the stove while it is still on a pallet in the driveweay and season up the paint outdoors rather than stinking up the house.

For the wood, my ideal would be to have a single shed just a few feet away from my garage big enough to hold three years of wood, with all the wood stacked loosely enough that it can season in one year.  i burn about seven cords per year.

I have seen them done, about 8" horizontal spacing between each stack of 16" wide splits seems to be enough.  So in one area of my 20 cord shed (that could hold 30 cords packed tight) would be 7 cords of wood I split and stacked last winter that is just barely dry but I could run it in the stove if we have a really cold winer. 

In a second area I have about seven cords that I started splitting about two years ago, this is wood that was dry enough to burn a year ago but I didn't need to get into it, so long about November I am lookin at a pile of wood that will have been split an stacked two years and seasoned to under 20% MC for more than a year.

In the last area is the wood I am going to burn this winter.  This is wood I started splitting three years ago next month.  two year ago this time it was under 20% MC and its been inside this roofed shed all along.

Did I tell you I _hate_ having to restack wood?  I really really really want to stack it ONE TIME after its split and then trhow it in the stove.

Realistically I keep about a face cord in the garage so I don't ahve to opent eh door every day of the heating season.  So compromise number one, I go out in the cold once or twice a week and fill the face cord rack in my garage from the outdoor shed.  Moving wood from seasoning racks to storage sheds is a chore I would rather do without.


----------



## red oak (Sep 29, 2014)

Don't stack in the woods.  I get the pieces out of the woods by hand, carrying them to my truck, then usually split and stack at home.  Sometimes I split in the woods - it all depends on how much time I have that day.  Once split it's got to come out, too easy for someone to take at that point.


----------



## Shane Collins (Sep 29, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.  I know it's important to keep the wood off the ground.  I guess I'll be bringing it all out of the woods then.  A cord of the wood I did on the weekend is on the edge of the woods which is pretty open so I think that should be fine to let it season there.  I need to finish splitting and stacking it but it should be about one cord.  Here's a pic :




For the rest of it I'll just have to haul it to the area I'll be building my new woodshed next year.  Once I carry it to the area in the picture by hand I can load it into a trailer and haul it with my lawnmower.  Eventually I'll be able to get in with the quad bike and trailer.

I like the sound of how you manage yours Nick Mystic.  I know a lot of people say it isn't idea but the less moving the better!

Poindexter - I couldn't believe it when you said 13% moisture.  Sure enough that's what it says in the manual.  Is that even realistic? I was pretty pleased my wood was able to get to the 18-23% range in less than a year.  It has a couple more months to go too but that's a fair bit above the 13% they recommend.  Am I going to have problems burning 18-23% mc wood in the BK Ashford?

Thanks for your replies, helps a lot.


----------



## Sconnie Burner (Sep 29, 2014)

I prefer to split where I cut it and then throw it in the truck. 1) I can fit more in the truck, 2) the mess isn't in my yard. I also live in town so I need to keep my noise to a minimum. I do end up doing some splitting at my house once in awhile if I find some scrounge wood. I find if I bring too many rounds home thye sit in an unsightly pile too long and I have to handle them more than I'd like!


----------



## Pennsyltucky Chris (Sep 29, 2014)

There's a good mix in that pic. Looks like you have some beech and birch in there, among others.


----------



## blades (Sep 30, 2014)

Note that moisture meters come calibrated for dimensioned lumber ( 2x4 and the like) so there is a variance between that and firewood splits, also the species makes a difference. I do not know if there are correctional charts around for this though. I check mine on a 2x4and my hand ( gives a range) then use on a fresh face of a split which works for me. It just a Harbor Freight unit nothing fancy. Fresh battery is a must on these.


----------



## RobertNH (Sep 30, 2014)

blades said:


> Note that moisture meters come calibrated for dimensioned lumber ( 2x4 and the like) so there is a variance between that and firewood splits, also the species makes a difference. I do not know if there are correctional charts around for this though. I check mine on a 2x4and my hand ( gives a range) then use on a fresh face of a split which works for me. It just a Harbor Freight unit nothing fancy. Fresh battery is a must on these.



Here's a great article (with charts) for reading MC in different types of wood at different temperatures.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf


----------



## Wood Duck (Sep 30, 2014)

I like to cut into rounds in the woods, then haul the rounds to a pile near the wood stacks. I split by hand, and like to split a little at a time. With the rounds waiting by the stacks I can split and stack a few rounds then move on to something else.


----------



## BobUrban (Sep 30, 2014)

There is really no "one" answer" for processing.  I think you will find what works best for you as you go.  Obviously getting it CSS'd and off the ground is best but if I were in your shoes I would do all I can to get it cut at least to rounds(split would be best) and at least piled up for easy access and then wait for your rig and trailer to get it out.  Hand hauling any distance is a LOT of work.


----------



## Fred Wright (Sep 30, 2014)

I have no way to move logs so timber is bucked in the woods where it falls. That can be challenging at times when it's muddy.

Load out the rounds with a garden tractor and dump cart, stack 'em where the woodpile is gonna be, split & stack later.


----------



## Poindexter (Sep 30, 2014)

Shane Collins said:


> Poindexter - I couldn't believe it when you said 13% moisture.  Sure enough that's what it says in the manual.  Is that even realistic? I was pretty pleased my wood was able to get to the 18-23% range in less than a year.  It has a couple more months to go too but that's a fair bit above the 13% they recommend.  Am I going to have problems burning 18-23% mc wood in the BK Ashford?


 
This is my first season with a BK also, so I don't _know_.  OTOH I have been saving up for a while and listening very very carefully to what local to me BK users say. 

Our local dealer has been on the "16% per electronic gizmo" bandwagon as long as I have known of him.  We do run our stoves long and hard through epic heating seasons year after year.  I think what my dealer has noticed, or started noticing, is who has trouble with their combustor after a year or three or five- and how wet is their wood?  My local dealer was suprised when I told him the manual for the Ashford says 13%, he (the owner) was expecting 16%.

I think 13% v 16% is a tossup.  If the manual for the Chinook 30 and Scirroco 30 say 16% and the Ashford has the same innards, what is going on that BK would lower the spec? 

16-20%MC, around here is sorta bare maximum territory, and I suspect these are the folks who finally ended up on the radar of my local dealer as having trouble with their stoves a few months or years after purchase.

Over 20% MC isn't going in my stove.  I am not saying you can't or shouldn't, but every pound of water that goes in my firebox is about 1000BTUs wasted boiling off water instead of heating up my house.  I think the real number is 992 BTU/ pound .  MC > 20% didn't burn well in my last stove, epa cert non-cat, and really doesn't burn that great in my old smoke dragon out in the shop either.

Can you maybe bring wood into your heated garage a half cord at a time or so and get it from 23% down to 19% in a couple weeks maybe?  I heat my garage to +55dF, and there is no humidity in there during the winter.  I can finish seasoning splits in there a littel bit at a time if I have other dryer wood to keep the stove going.

Alaska birch split small I can get down to 16% in one summer easy, I got some around 14%.  Spruce I can get down to 13% in one season consistently.  Big splits of birch, yes, I need two years to season them to under 16%.  Eastern hardwoods, I dunno but it reads like longer.


----------



## Bagelboy (Sep 30, 2014)

I cut and split it in the woods, then throw it in the truck and stack on pallets at home. No mess to clean.


----------



## JStone (Sep 30, 2014)

Nick Mystic said:


> I have 11 acres of mixed hardwoods, primarily here in western NC. The property is very challenging to access with lots of ravines and dense woods, so most of my harvesting is carrying rounds out by hand, or dragging logs on a small sled I built and then pulling that out by hand. I don't like moving wood any more than I have to, so once I get my wood home I split it and stack it under cover where it seasons until ready for burning in three years. Most of my covered areas are up against a retainer wall and I stack my wood three rows deep. The open front faces south, so I get pretty good sun on the wood all year round. I know a lot of people here at the forum say to season your wood out in the open where it can get some wind and I'm sure that is a better method for quicker drying. However, I have covered storage for a three year supply and with my system most of my wood is actually ready to burn after two years.
> 
> View attachment 139852



Nick, could I get some other pictures of this wood shed. I'd like to build one just like it. I have a perfect spot for it. Looks great btw!


----------



## RobertNH (Sep 30, 2014)

JStone said:


> Nick, could I get some other pictures of this wood shed. I'd like to build one just like it. I have a perfect spot for it. Looks great btw!



I was actually eyeing the 'Greenhouse' behind the shed!
Talk about drying in a shorter amount of time!

I'm running an experiment on 3 different types of ways of drying in hopes of only loading what I need this year vs. what I need 3 years from now.
I just don't have the space to load up that much wood!

Personally, and just MHO, I'd add a clear cover the top and add a clear 'slopped' front and give some space for venting.
From what I'm seeing so far, plastic works, but the better you can afford will aid in the process.

I'm running numbers and recording weekly as I proceed.
Only 2 weeks so far into this...


----------



## Shane Collins (Sep 30, 2014)

Poindexter said:


> This is my first season with a BK also, so I don't _know_.  OTOH I have been saving up for a while and listening very very carefully to what local to me BK users say.
> 
> Our local dealer has been on the "16% per electronic gizmo" bandwagon as long as I have known of him.  We do run our stoves long and hard through epic heating seasons year after year.  I think what my dealer has noticed, or started noticing, is who has trouble with their combustor after a year or three or five- and how wet is their wood?  My local dealer was suprised when I told him the manual for the Ashford says 13%, he (the owner) was expecting 16%.
> 
> ...



My garage isn't heated so that wont work.  When I checked the mc of the wood I only split three pieces, two maple and one red oak.  I'll check a few more splits this weekend.  But I still feel 18-23% mc isn't too terrible.  I'll make it work as I have no other choice really.  I do have about one cord of wood from last year, that will help a little.  Eventually I'll get ahead.

I have no idea how much wood I'll be burning either, this is our second winter in this house.  Last year was quite a bad winter as you all probably remember.  We were burning with a Newmac forced air wood/oil combination furnace which is 30 or so years old and very inefficient. We knew we needed to replace it but sort of ran out of time last year.  I made it work but it wasn't very pleasant.  We burned about 5 cords of wood (our house is 2600 square feet).  The BK is a lot more efficient so I'm pretty sure we'll be burning much less than the 5 cords of last year.  Only time will tell.

Blades - How do you compare the Moisture content between the 2x4 and your hand to the fresh split?  what numbers are you looking for?

Thanks again for all the help everyone.


----------



## Shawn Curry (Sep 30, 2014)

I'd recommend getting the trailer first.  You can put a hitch on your lawnmower and tow it that way.  Whether you're hauling rounds or splits out of the woods, you need a trailer.

I have 14 acres of woods, with plenty of down trees to burn.  Lots of standing dead too, but I only like to tackle the small ones by myself.  I have some pretty dense stands, not many obstacles as far as terrain, save a few low spots.  I've had an 18" maple hang up on me, and it scared the crap out of me trying to get it down.  Not to mention it was a pain in the neck.  I'll wait for mother nature or my tree climbing buddy to do those ones for me.

The first tree I ever cut up out in the woods, I cut the entire thing to firewood lengths on the spot.  Then I had to carry every single piece through pricker bushes to my trailer.  Swore never to do it that way again.  Now I leave it in as long of lengths as I can handle, up to roughly the length of the trailer.

For the trunk and larger branches, I'll "measure" (eyeball with my bar length) and score them with the chainsaw, and cut them into 2, 3, or 4 packs, depending on the diameter.  The only thing that gets cut to firewood length in the woods is rounds around say 18" and up.  With this method I can haul an 18" tree out of the woods in about an hour and a half.  And I don't need to bring chainsaw gas and bar oil with me, because I can get it done on one tank.  In fact, I'll usually have gas to spare when I get back to the house, where I break everything down to length on the sawbuck.  You can see my processing area in my avatar pic.

I highly recommend gathering it yourself from your own land.  I'm addicted to it, and I'm in the best shape in my life.  Plus, due to bugs and fungal diseases, you don't want to transport firewood very far.  It's just the best and most fun way to go IMO.


----------



## RobertNH (Sep 30, 2014)

I'll mention this again to you
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf
There are some great charts and temperature differentials to work with for several species of wood.
If you have a DMM, it's a great way to check you MC meter for accuracy.
It will also show you how to test (this I learned, 'I' was doing it wrong!).

An MC reader is doing nothing more than testing DC resistance.
The article teaches you about DC resistance and compensation.
If you really want to know what your wood MC is..
Do what I did and read the article.
It taught me a lot..


----------



## Shane Collins (Sep 30, 2014)

RobertNH said:


> I'll mention this again to you
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf
> There are some great charts and temperature differentials to work with for several species of wood.
> If you have a DMM, it's a great way to check you MC meter for accuracy.
> ...



Sorry, RobertNH.  I didn't mean to disregard your post.  I was looking after my two year old son when I read it.  After opening the .pdf I realized I wasn't going to be able to fully read it with my son running around.  I will have a read.  Thanks for that.

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...qid=1412123280&sr=8-1&keywords=moisture+meter

This is the moisture meter I have.

Thanks again.


----------



## Poindexter (Sep 30, 2014)

Shane, I am running a burn right now with 16% MC birch per gizmo.  First time I have had to light the stove in about a week, I have been running 13% MC spruce for many days in a row now.   

So 13% spruce versus 16% MC birch, yup, I can tell the difference.  An hour into the first burn I am "happy" with the way the stove is running on 16% MC birch, but it runs a lot better with 13% fuel. When you find some 16% fuel, put some of it aside and see how your stove can really run when you put 13% fuel in it.

What I had this summer was a seasoning stack two splits wide oriented east/ west.  The sunny south side of my seasoning rack I got small splits of birch at 11-14% MC.  From the shady side of the summer pile I got other small splits of birch at 14-16% MC.  

I suspect I won't be able to run the thermostat as low with this wetter fuel, that is I think I'll have to keep the thermostat turned up higher to keep the water evaporated off so the wood can burn, rather than have the stove go out - or run it at a lower setting with dryer fuel.

What I am going to do proactively as soon as I have a really good freeze to kill all the bugs is move the shady side birch splits into my garage en masse to finish drying them before they go in the stove.

13% to 16% MC is a noticeable change in my stove and not a good one.


----------



## STIHLY DAN (Sep 30, 2014)

2 different types of wood wont tell the difference. Try it on the same type with the different moisture content.


----------



## jeffesonm (Sep 30, 2014)

Most of my property is woods, so that's where I stack it.  I've had some white and red oak cut, split and stacked between some trees in the woods for 18-24 months and it's down to 18% MC.  So I would go ahead and stack it out there if it works.  Just keep it off the ground (pallets work well).  I top cover too, as much to keep the leaves out as the rain.


----------



## Poindexter (Oct 1, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> 2 different types of wood wont tell the difference. Try it on the same type with the different moisture content.


 
I think I have burnt enough wood in the last year or three to tell the difference.  Birch and spruce is all that grows here, all I have to choose from.

OTOH your point is not without merit.  I don't have any spruce above 13% MC.  I do have a little bit of birch at 12% that has been split and stacked for 3+ years, but not enough to waste in on a science experiment in weather this warm.  When it cools off another 30 or 40 degrees I'll run back to back burns with birch at 16% and birch at 12%.


----------



## RobertNH (Oct 1, 2014)

No problem Shane!
Just wanted to be sure you (and others) saw the article.
I've been testing my wood for years and learned from it.

You're meter is close to what I use.
By using the DMM method (in the article), I was able to test my meter (it's close enough).
What's funny is the picture of the meter supposedly taking a reading... the wrong way..


----------



## KindredSpiritzz (Oct 1, 2014)

I left some rounds in the woods last fall to season, stacked them up nice figuring they would dry out since they were already kinda punky. It was a pretty shady spot and this year they are wetter and punkier than ever. Need to get them out asap and dried so they might make marginal shoulder season wood at best next year. Probably should have covered them with a tarp.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 1, 2014)

I call bunk on this whole conversation.  Very few BK owners will have wood at 13%.  That's below the Equillibrium Moisture Content of most wood species in most parts of the country, meaning you could season your wood under cover for 100 years, and not hit 13% MC.  Also, given that most are measuring outdoors at temperatures not = 70F, your meter accuracy is not sufficient to distinguish 13% from 16% without several correction tables (first for species, then for temperature).


----------



## Shane Collins (Oct 1, 2014)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> I left some rounds in the woods last fall to season, stacked them up nice figuring they would dry out since they were already kinda punky. It was a pretty shady spot and this year they are wetter and punkier than ever. Need to get them out asap and dried so they might make marginal shoulder season wood at best next year. Probably should have covered them with a tarp.



Were they stacked off the ground?

Joful, do you think I'll have troubles burning my wood which is at 18-23% ??


----------



## Ashful (Oct 1, 2014)

Shane Collins said:


> Joful, do you think I'll have troubles burning my wood which is at 18-23% ??


I don't own an Ashford, but I've been burning two catalytic Jotul Firelight 12's since 2011, and started with an insufficient supply.  I've been working towards a 3-year CSS'd plan, but at a burn rate requirement of 8 - 10 cords per year... it's taking me a little while to get there.  I currently have 20 cords CSS'd.

Last year, most of the wood I burned probed at 19 - 23% on a freshly spit face in cold weather.  That means it's probably more like 22% - 30% MC, correcting for temperature.  The stuff measuring 19% in cold weather (probably about 22% if measured at 70F) lit off the cat just beautifully, after 8 - 10 minutes on bypass after a fresh load.  The wood that measured 23% in cold weather (probably approaching 30% MC) was a very noticeable problem, but would still light off the cat after perhaps 20 - 25 minutes in bypass.  Clearly not ideal, but these are the things you must deal with when starting of in a new house with a fresh wood supply.

I think that if your wood is really 18 - 23% (correcting your MM readings for species and temperature), you're probably going to be in okay shape.  The numbers most folks call out here is just what their MM reads, and typically quote success at any reading close to 20%, but these readings are often erroneously done in cold weather without correction.  Temperature has a very dramatic effect on the validity of the readings:


----------



## Poindexter (Oct 2, 2014)

My garage is heated to +55dF.  I filled my garage rack of firewood four days ago.  Split a split open to expose a fresh interior surface.


----------



## Poindexter (Oct 2, 2014)

FWIW the sample is native interior Alaskan Spruce, we got white spruce and black spruce here, no blue, no yellow.


----------



## greythorn3 (Oct 2, 2014)

heard u got snow in fairbanks yesterday


----------



## paul bunion (Oct 2, 2014)

Joful said:


> I don't own an Ashford, but I've been burning two catalytic Jotul Firelight 12's since 2011, and started with an insufficient supply.  I've been working towards a 3-year CSS'd plan, but at a burn rate requirement of 8 - 10 cords per year... it's taking me a little while to get there.  I currently have 20 cords CSS'd.
> 
> Last year, most of the wood I burned probed at 19 - 23% on a freshly spit face in cold weather.  That means it's probably more like 22% - 30% MC, correcting for temperature.  The stuff measuring 19% in cold weather (probably about 22% if measured at 70F) lit off the cat just beautifully, after 8 - 10 minutes on bypass after a fresh load.  The wood that measured 23% in cold weather (probably approaching 30% MC) was a very noticeable problem, but would still light off the cat after perhaps 20 - 25 minutes in bypass.  Clearly not ideal, but these are the things you must deal with when starting of in a new house with a fresh wood supply.
> 
> ...


 
All that and the fact that a moisture meter is only reading between two spots on your wood.  It cannot tell you the average content across the entire piece.  20% means that for every 5 pounds of bone dry wood you have an additional pound of water.   It doesn't matter if the water is evenly distributed within the piece of wood or if one part is  a few points higher and one part a few points lower.  You will still have a pound of water.  (And it will never be evenly distributed unless you store your wood under conditions like an art museum or rare book library which has a constant temp and humidity.)   A moisture meter is a good tool for judging drying progress but is utterly worthless for measuring the absolute moisture content of a piece of wood.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 2, 2014)

Good point, Paul, but maybe more in theory than a practical problem.  I believe if you're measuring near the middle of a freshly-split face, you're getting the number with which you need to be concerned.  The wood will be dryer at the ends and close to the old split face, but probably reasonably uniform throughout most of the core, to within the error of measurement with which we're concerned as wood burners.


----------



## Frank625 (Oct 2, 2014)

I cut to length in the woods then load on truck or trailer. I split and stack on pallets.


----------



## RobertNH (Oct 2, 2014)

Thank


Joful said:


> I don't own an Ashford, but I've been burning two catalytic Jotul Firelight 12's since 2011, and started with an insufficient supply.  I've been working towards a 3-year CSS'd plan, but at a burn rate requirement of 8 - 10 cords per year... it's taking me a little while to get there.  I currently have 20 cords CSS'd.
> 
> Last year, most of the wood I burned probed at 19 - 23% on a freshly spit face in cold weather.  That means it's probably more like 22% - 30% MC, correcting for temperature.  The stuff measuring 19% in cold weather (probably about 22% if measured at 70F) lit off the cat just beautifully, after 8 - 10 minutes on bypass after a fresh load.  The wood that measured 23% in cold weather (probably approaching 30% MC) was a very noticeable problem, but would still light off the cat after perhaps 20 - 25 minutes in bypass.  Clearly not ideal, but these are the things you must deal with when starting of in a new house with a fresh wood supply.
> 
> ...



Thank you Joful for posting the chart!

This is from the article (and believe Joful is the one that originally lead me to it)
The second chart is the species chart mentioned above (also in the article)
Print this chart and the species chart (I've done this) and refer to it.
It will help you 'so' much!


----------



## maple1 (Oct 3, 2014)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> I left some rounds in the woods last fall to season, stacked them up nice figuring they would dry out since they were already kinda punky. It was a pretty shady spot and this year they are wetter and punkier than ever. Need to get them out asap and dried so they might make marginal shoulder season wood at best next year. Probably should have covered them with a tarp.


 
Did you split before you stacked?

There is no one 'right' way to do this. The most important rule is split & stack ASAP.

I usually look for windfalls. I cut it up & park my splitter right beside it, throw to a small trailer right off the splitter, then stack off the trailer right to a pallet. Next time I touch it is to put in in my firebox.

Smaller stuff that I can pile long lengths, I do that onto my trailer, then cut it to length on the trailer like a sawbuck when I get it to my pallet area. Then split & stack on pallets.

Depending on timing issues, I have also stacked in the woods off the splitter and came back & got it when I had time. Single stacks off the ground on poles might not dry as fast as in the open, but they shouldn't rot. I wouldn't hesitate to do that if I had to, bit I would top cover if it was going to be there over the winter.

An ATV, trailer & splitter combo can get a lot of wood.


----------



## Shane Collins (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies.  Think I have a good idea of what I'll do for my situation now.  Was pretty much what I was thinking but you've all solidified it in my mind now.  My wife just gave me the go ahead to buy a new Polaris sporstman 570 ATV and a trailer.  It should be here on Wednesday.  Pretty happy with that!

I was looking at this for a trailer : 

http://www.drpower.com/shop-by-cate...tachments/swivel-dump-cart-hybrid-trailer.axd

Any thoughts?  anyone have a good ATV trailer they recommend??

This weekend I'll continue moving my wood pile into the wood shed for winter and I'll cut down more trees ready to get my ATV in their and haul them out.  I'll also start clearing the area i'll use as my firewood processing area and where I plan on building my new woodshed.  My current woodshed is on it's last legs.  I hope it lasts this winter!!

Shawn Curry,  I like your setup.  I found your other post with your sawbuck.  I had seen them a few times before, yours is very nice looking.  I'll be building one of those.  Seems like it's much easier/faster to cut the log to a manageable length, haul it out then cut it up on the sawbuck.  I've gotten pretty good at cutting the wood on the forest floor but every now and then I still manage to hit the dirt or a rock which is never fun.

Thanks again.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 3, 2014)

ATV trailer - depends what all you want to use it for.

And your terrain.

I wouldn't have anything but a trailer with walking beams for woods work. A huge difference in towability in anything rough with any kind of load on.

And I like the versatility of being able to haul long stuff on it with stakes on the sides, or shorts/splits with sideracks. I will be welding a receiver on the back of it so I can hook the splitter up & haul both right to the tree where it lands to reduce trips.

I have a small cheaper one like in that link for around the yard, and a bigger walking beam for woods work. Found it for a couple hundred used - homemade but very useful, tough & versatile.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 3, 2014)

A lot of use use and like that Ohio Steel poly tub trailer.  I put stake sides in mine and pile 6 feet high, with no weight issues.  Holds almost 1/4 cord.

The man who invented that dual hitch should be nominated for a Nobel prize.


----------



## Shane Collins (Oct 3, 2014)

Joful said:


> A lot of use use and like that Ohio Steel poly tub trailer.  I put stake sides in mine and pile 6 feet high, with no weight issues.  Holds almost 1/4 cord.
> 
> The man who invented that dual hitch should be nominated for a Nobel prize.



Do you use an ATV to pull it??  It seems the most reasonable I can find without breaking the bank.  The walking beam trailers look cool but they have a pretty nice pricetag to go with them.  Maybe one day if I feel the need but for now I think the Ohio Steel trailer should do the job.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 4, 2014)

Never pulled with an ATV.  Always used my Cub 123 or Deere 855.


----------



## Shane Collins (Oct 6, 2014)

I got the cart on the weekend.  I really like it.  So much better than the free piece of junk I got with my lawnmower.  I used my lawnmower to haul it and it worked fine.  My two year old and wife enjoyed the rides in it too.  Should be getting the ATV on wed/thurs then I can use it to haul the rest of my firewood into the wood shed.

Thanks for all the advice here.  I settled on cutting the logs to 4 foot length then I'll haul them out and cut them up to 16' on a sawbuck and split and stack.  I cut about a cord of wood on the weekend.  It's all in 4 foot lengths waiting for the ATV to get in and haul it out.  Getting my firewood is going to become much easier now.

Thanks again, everyone.


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 6, 2014)

To op, get 3+ years ahead! you can store it anywhere.... But be smart get it single stacked in the sun and wind.... Do it right....


----------



## Kool_hand_Looke (Oct 7, 2014)

Shane Collins said:


> Thanks for all the replies.  Think I have a good idea of what I'll do for my situation now.  Was pretty much what I was thinking but you've all solidified it in my mind now.  My wife just gave me the go ahead to buy a new Polaris sporstman 570 ATV and a trailer.  It should be here on Wednesday.  Pretty happy with that!
> 
> I was looking at this for a trailer :
> 
> ...



Check out the Polar 1500 TA tandem axle. You're already in for an ATV, might as well do it "right". 

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...i_sku=125724&gclid=COznyKDcmcECFcQ-MgodajsAHQ

Its 22 cubic feet. That's what you need to pay attention too.


----------



## Kool_hand_Looke (Oct 7, 2014)

Shane Collins said:


> I got the cart on the weekend.  I really like it.  So much better than the free piece of junk I got with my lawnmower.  I used my lawnmower to haul it and it worked fine.  My two year old and wife enjoyed the rides in it too.  Should be getting the ATV on wed/thurs then I can use it to haul the rest of my firewood into the wood shed.
> 
> Thanks for all the advice here.  I settled on cutting the logs to 4 foot length then I'll haul them out and cut them up to 16' on a sawbuck and split and stack.  I cut about a cord of wood on the weekend.  It's all in 4 foot lengths waiting for the ATV to get in and haul it out.  Getting my firewood is going to become much easier now.
> 
> Thanks again, everyone.



Didn't see this one


----------



## Shawn Curry (Oct 7, 2014)

Sounds like Shane already has an ATV on the way - lucky dog!

The thing he needs now is "ATV skidding tongs". They can be had pretty cheap, then all you need to do is limb the tree out in the woods. If its small enough, in wintertime you can probably hook on to the log and drag it in one piece. Bigger ones, you might need to cut it in a couple pieces. 

That's how my BIL and I used to do it, before he got rid of his ATV. He's got 4 kids now, so I actually did more firewood for him this year that he did!


----------



## blades (Oct 7, 2014)

Just be gentle with the poly tub under 40 degrees. The poly gets stiff and cracks/shatters easily in my experience if splits or logs are tossed into it.  Sharp corners or protrusions are the culprits. Adding a 1/16-1/8" alum. liner/plates makes it much less sensitive to concentrated impact points.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 7, 2014)

blades said:


> Just be gentle with the poly tub under 40 degrees. The poly gets stiff and cracks/shatters easily in my experience if splits or logs are tossed into it.  Sharp corners or protrusions are the culprits. Adding a 1/16-1/8" alum. liner/plates makes it much less sensitive to concentrated impact points.


I've had this happen with poly tubs before, but not this one.  Mine sees probably more abuse than most (I will move 10 - 15 cords of wood per winter... usually twice), and I also moved about 80 yards of mulch in it, before I got my front-end loader.  It's a solid cart, with a very strong tub.



Shane Collins said:


> My two year old and wife enjoyed the rides in it too.


Once a year I clean mine out and fill it with straw for hay rides.  Good enough for young kids... a little too tight for adults, tho.



Shane Collins said:


> Thanks for all the advice here.  I settled on cutting the logs to 4 foot length then I'll haul them out and cut them up to 16' on a sawbuck and split and stack.  I cut about a cord of wood on the weekend.  It's all in 4 foot lengths waiting for the ATV to get in and haul it out.  Getting my firewood is going to become much easier now.


One weakness of all these poly tub carts is that the sloped rear wall (designed for dumping) does tend to flex when you put a lot of longer heavy wood leaning on what would be the 'tailgate'.  Solution is simple, place a few shorter rounds or splits down in the bottom of the tub, then the longer stuff on top.  I put stake sides in mine, and I'll load over a third cord of wood at a time:


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Oct 7, 2014)

FWIW,  use a Can-Am Outlander Max XT 1000 and a Polar HD1500 trailer that someone posted above, although I opted for the single axle version as I didn't see a need for the two axles.  I also added the optional side rails which dramatically increase capacity.  

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200135074_200135074

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200338905_200338905


----------



## Ashful (Oct 7, 2014)

Dual axles on a poly tub = marketing gimmick.  My single axle is rated at 1200 lb., way beyond the capacity of the average poly tub.  Will you ever put 2000+ lb. in a poly tub?


----------



## maple1 (Oct 7, 2014)

Single axles are at a distinct disadvantage in rough terrain compared to a walking beam setup no matter what kind of body is on the trailer, or if you are hauling 1200 or 2000 pounds. It's not about load capacity but rather getting over the ground easier & with way less chance of a tipover.

Smooth ground, it likely doesn't matter. But if you're moving stuff over humps/hummocks/holes/rocks/stumps, nothing beats a walking beam trailer and I wouldn't be in the woods without one.

Not a marketing gimmick.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Oct 7, 2014)

Joful said:


> Dual axles on a poly tub = marketing gimmick.  My single axle is rated at 1200 lb., way beyond the capacity of the average poly tub.  Will you ever put 2000+ lb. in a poly tub?



Yep, all marketing and that's why I didn't go for it.  It's not even a true dual axle either.  It's the same single axle but with two tires attached to an arm which then attaches to the same point where the single tire would.  The way it's setup is that all your doing by adding the additional two tires is putting half the load on the other two tires, the actual axle is still seeing the full load.


----------



## greythorn3 (Oct 7, 2014)

but look at all the extra tires you gotta maintain. what a benefit!


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Oct 7, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Single axles are at a distinct disadvantage in rough terrain compared to a walking beam setup no matter what kind of body is on the trailer, or if you are hauling 1200 or 2000 pounds. It's not about load capacity but rather getting over the ground easier & with way less chance of a tipover.
> 
> Smooth ground, it likely doesn't matter. But if you're moving stuff over humps/hummocks/holes/rocks/stumps, nothing beats a walking beam trailer and I wouldn't be in the woods without one.
> 
> Not a marketing gimmick.



I can see that, but I'm not pulling mine through rough terrain.


----------



## TradEddie (Oct 7, 2014)

Shane Collins said:


> But I still feel 18-23% mc isn't too terrible.



My experience is that there is a world of difference between 23% and 18%. Setting aside the various measurement errors mentioned previously, I think that most regular burners here have experienced the sudden improvement in burning quality that happens somewhere around 20%. What that magic number is may vary by species, temperature, meter or stove. For me, oak at 23% on my MM is miserable to burn, but oak at 18% means I need to open windows even on the coldest days. There is more at work than simply the energy lost to boiling off the extra water, there appears to be a tipping point where the reactions that drive secondary combustion are no longer inhibited. 

TE


----------



## Ashful (Oct 7, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Smooth ground, it likely doesn't matter. But if you're moving stuff over humps/hummocks/holes/rocks/stumps, nothing beats a walking beam trailer and I wouldn't be in the woods without one.


Good point.  I suspect very few people are taking trailers like this into deep woods, but for someone who is, the walking beam might be an advantage.  I take a tractor into the woods with a 3-point drawbar and chain chokers, and skid the logs out to a clear landing, much like the guys with the two-team horse and ox skidders.  My poly tub wagon is only used on fairly good terrain (eg. lawn, processing area, etc.), where it's not likely to get stuck on a rock or root.


----------



## Shane Collins (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm planning on eventually making trails throughout my woods which is where I'll park the atv and trailer.  Obviously I'll park it closer to the felled tree if possible.  Then I'll just cut it to 4' lengths and load them into the trailer and haul it to my processing area.  I did have a look at the walking beam trailers.  They look great but I think I'll be fine without.  My wife said and I agree that if this trailer turns out to not be good enough we can always buy the more expensive one in the future.

Got the quad today.  Really happy with it.  Couldn't take it out much as I don't have the trails yet but I drove it around the lawn and up and down the driveway a few times.  It's going to make life much easier (and funner).


----------



## Cascade Failure (Oct 8, 2014)

Good thread!

A question for those of you using quad/trailer combos...is anyone else having a problem on hills? I have a King Quad 450 and a 10 cu ft trailer (probably loaded to 15 cu ft). I routinely have a problem when going down a steep hill where the loaded trailer will try to jackknife the quad if I apply any brake at any speed (usually 1-3 mph). How do I fix this? Trailer brakes? Lighter loads? Bigger quad? Don't brake and "enjoy" the ride?


----------



## Ashful (Oct 9, 2014)

On your "bigger quad" question... I'm using a Deere 855, and I routinely go down a fairly big hill with my trailer loaded 5 - 6 feet high with green oak splits (see photos in post #51, I'll try to re-link below), so I'm really pushing the weight capacity.  I have no such trouble with jack-knifing, although I do always put the tractor in 4wd when doing this.  The tractor weighs about 2500 lb. with the loader installed, although 500 lb. of that is in the worst possible place, forward of the front axle.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 9, 2014)

Cascade Failure said:


> Good thread!
> 
> A question for those of you using quad/trailer combos...is anyone else having a problem on hills? I have a King Quad 450 and a 10 cu ft trailer (probably loaded to 15 cu ft). I routinely have a problem when going down a steep hill where the loaded trailer will try to jackknife the quad if I apply any brake at any speed (usually 1-3 mph). How do I fix this? Trailer brakes? Lighter loads? Bigger quad? Don't brake and "enjoy" the ride?


 
Load for the conditions.

Does the KQ have a low range? And I assume you're in 4wd?

I have an older Arctic Cat 454. The trailer I use is 8' long by about 2.5' wide in the bed, and piled likely 2' high. I don't have any issues going down hills with it. I have spun out going up hill.

Maybe load more weight on the front of the trailer to put more weight on the back wheels of the ATV? If it's loaded to the back, it will take weight off the back ATV wheels and a skidding you may go. You could try chains on all 4 wheels, maybe, too.


----------



## firefighterjake (Oct 9, 2014)

Always liked using my ATV and a cart for hauling out wood . . . kept the branches in the woods . . . less mess to clean up. Also with a smaller wheelbase the "trails" I made in the woods made for less of a "foot print" when I got done cutting in an area. I always took the time to cut up the wood to stove length though . . . figured I was right there in the woods . . . also lighter to pick up.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 9, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> Always liked using my ATV and a cart for hauling out wood . . . kept the branches in the woods . . . less mess to clean up. Also with a smaller wheelbase the "trails" I made in the woods made for less of a "foot print" when I got done cutting in an area. I always took the time to cut up the wood to stove length though . . . figured I was right there in the woods . . . also lighter to pick up.


 
True that - I find I can get into a lot more places than I could with a tractor, and leave much less damage behind. Last couple years I've been picking away and cleaning up an area of windfall spruce just down over a hill from where some 'real' cutting was done a few years ago. I'm kind of combining trail making with wood scrounging - I'm almost down onto an old road that will connect me to all kinds of other stuff and make a nice sled trail in the winter. I hope one of this weekends projects will be welding a receiver onto my trailer so I can hook up my splitter to the wood train - really a bonus when you can run the splitter right into where the tree falls & throw into the trailer off the splitter which is right where the wood lands when cut.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Oct 10, 2014)

Here's my newly purchased ATV I'm using for wood hauling.  I got a two-up so the GF and I can trail ride with it as well.  Just got 'er all cleaned up after riding last weekend on the muddy trails.


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 10, 2014)

Looks bad ass to me.....enjoy......


----------



## dp03 (Oct 11, 2014)

i use a 25 year old craftsman dump lawn mower trailer behind my 4wheeler. it even has the original tires. did add tubes though. i live on a mounain and i have hauled cord after cord up and down the hollers with it through rough stuff and somehow it keeps on goin.  of course you gotta watch it if you stack it tall because it will feel a little tippy. been lucky so far though.


----------

