# Englander/Summers Heat -  25-PDVC / 55-SHP10... What Is or Is This Normal or Typical and my set-up..



## cntbill (Feb 2, 2008)

Hi All,

I would like to get some general feedback on my setup and from owners of the same stove, as this is the first pellet stove I ever had and I am not sure what is considered normal, typical, or acceptable. 

Quick overview: Purchased the stove at Lowe's "fire sale" a couple weeks back so I am quite please at the price I paid... (but lol, vent pipe cost me almost as much as the stove)... ease of installation, and performance.  It seems to work well and heats our home quite well.

My setup is in the basement, 3" vent pipe, out the back a  T, to 6 one foot vertical sections, a 90, to 1' horizontal through the wall, then another 90 to  go up, 3' section up (to get above the ground), then another 90 to point away from the house, and on the end of that I have the vent cap... the one that came in the kit and looks like a dryer vent.  3" fresh air. And connected to a thermostat upstairs.

I hope this is enough info for some feedback as I have some concerns and being a newbie I'm not sure what to expect.

So with this said, here is my limited experience and concerns. But I guess the questions are, Should I be worried?

The stove seems to burn rich, black on glass. But from what I have read here this is typical on a low, 1 setting. I did call tech support and was guided through the settings and was able to reduce the burn rate down to a bag or less a day, current setting 4-7-1. And was told my vent pipe setup was OK..  But I am thinking of increasing the size to 4", thinking I need maybe just a little better draft? 

I am also getting a build-up of hard suet, black stuff (not sure what to call it), in the auger tube for about an 1 1/2"  in. I did have an noise and found my answer here... auger tube build up. And now I include scraping that on my daily list. But would this be normal for a weeks work of burning on low to have the noise?  One thing I noticed on the hopper lid is I can see marks from where it is contacting the gasket except for about a 10" area across the middle in the front. So maybe the gasket should be replaced or the latches adjusted? but it does seem to close tight. Not sure how to check this.

OK on to the paint pealing, what I noticed the other day. By the front door... where it opens on the left side on the top to about 3" down and about an 1" wide the paint is flaking off. And today I noticed that where the door gasket contacts the stove, the paint is flaking there also. I did the flame test with a lighter with the stove just being turned on and the lighter flame was not sucked in, so I am guessing that the gasket is OK, but the pealing must be from the stove not being quite clean enough when the paint was applied?  I did mentioned the top area to the support person I was talking to and he seemed to agree with me and suggest a can of high temp paint. So has anyone had a similar problem? Or maybe what I am thinking is the paint possibly never cured because the stove was a display unit and it should have had a burn in sooner?

Now the big question... I know that with anything metal there is expansion and noise when heated, temp changes. But this thing make me jump out of my skin.... when I am near it...  lol....   When starting from a cold start as the flames get going in the stove, it make a noise almost like a gun shot, or if someone hit the side of it with a sledge hammer. And each time that this has happened when I am in the basement about 30' away working on stuff I stop an look to see if anything broke. I tell you it makes me jump, it hasn't done this the first week, maybe a weld cracked? Or is this typical?

Now what I found on pellet temps... I tried three different brands that I are local to me. What I did was start cold after cleaning and burned a bag of each all at the same settings. Chose a medium setting of 4 for heat and 6 for the fan. Places a magnetic thermostat on the stove, didn't move it, and recorded the temps 4 hours later. The one brand I thought would have the best heat, didn't. But I guess this varies a bit too...

From Lowes, @ $4.78 a bag, Summerset = 470* 
From Home Depot, @ $4.30 a bag / $199.00 per ton, Stove Chow = 430*
From a stove place, @ $4.38 a bag, Energex = 430*

Even though the Energex was only at 430 at med burn it was also 20* hotter on low burn... hmmm  and another thing when I did my "test" this was my second batch of Energex which came from a different pallet. As when I first tried the Energex pellets I could have swore they burned hotter then the others, but then I did not have a thermostat at the time.  So I suspect even the same brand name has a bit of variations too.

Ok... way to much typing here.... Thoughts, Ideas ?

Bill...


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## webbie (Feb 2, 2008)

The soot buildup seems to be a problem with that stove - many users here have reported it, and that it can interfere with operation. The factory and the users here suggest cleaning it almost daily when you scrape the pot.

I think you have it correct on the paint - they probably did not prepare the surface correctly, although it is also possible it was stored by Lowes in a high humidity environment. If I were you, I would wait awhile and then after the season clean it off with a light sandpaper and steel wool and get some stove bright (spray can) and touch it up. That is probably what they use at the factory.

As far as the "gunshot" noise, more than ikely it is a piece of sheet metal which is under stress and the heat makes it pop. My guess is that stress will work itself out, so perhaps wait a couple weeks and see what happens. 

I don't think there is a problem with your chimney, and increasing to 4" does not really create more draft because the stove is forced draft.


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## cntbill (Feb 2, 2008)

Wow... Thanks for the prompt reply 

"The soot buildup seems to be a problem with that stove..."   Yes I am learning to clean this daily also... just trying to find the best screw driver for the Job.

"I think you have it correct on the paint..."   Yes kind of my thoughts to...

"As far as the “gunshot” noise..."  Interesting thought, feel a little more at ease, and see what happens...

"I don’t think there is a problem with your chimney, and increasing to 4” does not really create more draft because the stove is forced draft."   LOL ... Yes Forced Draft..  We are also in the middle of installing a fireplace in the living room, guess getting my chimney engineering mixed up...  

Thanks again...


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## bret4 (Feb 3, 2008)

I wonder if having your thermostat upstairs is the best place for it? I have my thermostat about 14' away across the room from the stove and can control the temp withing 1'F. I use a electronic programable thermostat. Could be your stove would turn on and off from hot setting to low setting more often if the thermostat was in the same room. Thinking this may help clear up some of the build up in the auger tube if it comes off the low burn setting more often and not burning on low as much.

The stove making a sound loud enough to be like a gun shot is not right. My stove makes some little sounds as it heats up when I first fire it up. I'd talk to Englander about that sound and if it doesn't go away in a short time maybe they will replace the stove or have a fix for it.

Another thing about carbon build up. The build up of carbon you are getting in the auger tube happens to me too. You sound like you are getting a bit more than I am. Could also be the brand of pellets you are using or the heat setting being on low a lot. I messed with the 3 buttons at the bottom of the pannel to try and get more time out of a bag of pellets but I felt that I got more build up of carbon on the low setting. This made it a little harder to clean so I went back to the factory settings. You may want to try and adjust the plat inside the hopper to get some control over the pellet feed rate.

There is a plate inside the hopper that can be adjusted to close off the opening above the upper auger. Right now I am trying different adjustments on that plate. Closing it as far as it can go seemed to make the stove run cooler than I liked on the higher heat settings. My stove came from the factory set in the middle position. Right now I am set at about half way from that position and the closed posision. This will change due to the pellets you burn. I am burning Fireside Ultra pellets from Home Deopt. The nice thing is that with this setting you can control how many pellets you go through on all heat settings. Not just the lower number 1 and 2 heat settings that you control with the three buttons on the bottom of the control pannel.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

bret4

My thermostat really doesn't do much at the moment as I keep it low so it don't kick in as most of the time I pretty much only need to run the stove on low. Thermostat is pretty much a convenience item if I think I would like it a little warmer without having to go downstairs to turn it up on the stove. And for another project I'm thinking about once I figure the temps from upstairs and downstairs sorted out along with air movement. Story for another topic...

Guess at the moment a wait and see on the noise, just wondering if other owners might have similar noise.

The seal, gasket on the hopper lid, is that there just to prevent smoke, fire back? If it was bad would that be a contributer to carbon build Up? 

Thanks for the suggestion on the plate, but at the moment it is set back in the slot for the screw as far as it will go. Got it this way.


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## pegdot (Feb 3, 2008)

Not sure about the noise. Certainly not something I've ever heard from mine. As Craig said, it sounds like metal heating up, expanding and binding on something. Just a thought.....have you checked the stove for level? Side to side? Front to back? Diagonally? Could be that it its not sitting perfectly flat it is putting pressure on a section of metal that shouldn't have any. 

Low burns are just dirty. More soot on the glass and the tip of the auger. On higher settings I get gray ash on the glass instead of black. I think that's a pretty good  visible indication of how well the stove is really burning. 

The gasket. I dunno. lol When the hopper lid is latched correctly you should be able to pull up on either front corner and not feel any give.


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## bret4 (Feb 3, 2008)

The seal, gasket on the hopper lid, is that there just to prevent smoke, fire back? If it was bad would that be a contributer to carbon build Up? 

You could be on to something with that idea. That could be another reason for carbon to build up so far up the auger tube. That is just a guess on my part. A better answer may come from someone at Englander.





Thanks for the suggestion on the plate, but at the moment it is set back in the slot for the screw as far as it will go. Got it this way.

You may want to try adjusting that plate, but if you are happy with your burn times then why mess with it.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

Doubled checked level, since I just place the stove on the concrete floor... assume to be level... from front to back, not quite an 1/8" off, side to side, pretty much dead on. I'm not sure but I don't think 1/16" - 1/8" would make a major problem.

After my original post I did a little closer examination. It seems that my hopper lid is slightly bowed between the latches. I'm going to guess that because it was a display unit and people fooling with it could have latched and forced it closed with something under the lid causing it to bow?   There for not making a tight seal in that area. Also some frays where is seems the latches caught.

Attached is photos, although difficult to see the bow. 

Ok So I got this Bright idea....   But I would not recommend any one trying it with what I used for any length of time. So, I filled the hopper, cleaned the fire pot and auger area. Then I cut a thin strip of some foam, placed it on the area that I didn't believe was making a good seal, latched the lid and made sure that the stove was on 1, and set the thermostat down so it would not come on.  For a longer test I am going to try to use a small bead of some high temp silicon on the lid... as I believe this would be much safer.

Here is what I found,  I had a better flame - higher, and a higher temp about 10* -20*.  As far as carbon build up? not sure yet because it has only been running about 12 hrs. But still burning a bit rich, although maybe changing the setting might help, I just think it is the nature of the beast on low.

Also attached is a photo of the flame and a photo of fire box after about 12 hrs or so.

OK back to the drawing board ... have to make the photos smaller.... so I will post them in a bit.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

OK... photo showing what I guess is Typical of being on Low....

(also need to get photos smaller)


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

OK got the photo size down....  


Additional photos of lid, fire box /pot after 12 hrs on low with extra seal in place and hopper with the extra foam seal placed on top


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## bret4 (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't think level is going to change anything. My stove is just sitting on the floor and never checked for level. 

Good test with sealing the top. Maybe if the top is bent Englander could send you a new one. Using your level as a straight edge. you can check under the front of the lid to see if it is bowed. You may be able to bend it back yourself if you were careful checking it with your straight edge. 

I still think if you are burning too rich you should look into closing the plate inside the hopper to at least the half way point. Then you may have to change your settings on the 3 buttons closer to the factory settings. Your stove being new like my stove maybe your factory setting were something like 6 4 1. Today I backed my settings down to 5 3 1 with the plate set at about 1/4 of the way from fully closed. Seems to be running nice. Of course whatever pellets we burn will change these settings.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

bret4, 

Guess didn't write it clear enough... The hopper plate is closed as far as it will go. The slot where the screw is, is at the end. But I will double check it anyway the next time I need to add pellets, I could be looking at it backwards.  

When I called tech support I was told to set the low feed to 3, but that was a bit too low, so at the current moment my settings are 4-7-1 and it seems to be working pretty good with the pellets I'm burning at the moment.

Thanks I will check the plate again....  maybe I could open it a little more and set the feed to 3 like the support person told me....


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## bret4 (Feb 3, 2008)

Ok, I may have had it backwards then. Thought you had it wide open. Anyhow sounds like your starting to figure things out.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes... getting there little by little, and noticed too some of your other post on the same subject.. useful info


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## staplebox (Feb 3, 2008)

@Bill

I just noticed the same hopper bow yeasterday.  It does not appear to cause the lid not to seal but I'll check it closer.  I have only been running the stove X1 week but I did not notice the bow before.


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## cntbill (Feb 3, 2008)

staplebox

I believe that a slight bow is normal because the latches are on the ends. However with my stove I think it might have been a bit mishandled at the store since it was a floor model. 

The one thing that prompt me to put an extra sorta seal is I could see marks from the fiberglass seal on the hopper lid except in the front middle, no marks.


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## MassWood (Feb 4, 2008)

I've talked to about two dozen  people who've had a dirty burn with this summer's heat or the englander stove and only a couple have them have spent the months and multiply phone calls to fix the problems. Don't get me wrong the customer service and techs are great, but for so many people to have to "FIX" brand new 1500$ plus stoves to me seems a little ridiculous. If I get rid of my stove for a few hundred bucks less than I bought it for in the spring and by a Harmon, I'll be happy.


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## petejung (Feb 4, 2008)

I have the same stove and occaisionally get that metal pop/bang during the heat-up process of the stove.  I have never given it a second thought, just considered it some sort of normal metal stress from heating up. I've been running for a full season now, and haven't had any problems that I know of due to that popping.  It still makes me jump, though... But we pretty much run the stove 24/7, so I don't get to experience the bowel cleaning effect of the pop too often.

The one thing I did the other night that peeved me off- I took off the room blower and sucked out the minor dust buildup on the fan blades.  Upon re-installation, found that ESW has stripped two of the four bolt holes that mount the fan on.  I'll fix that in the spring by tapping to the next largest screw size.  But now the stupid fan goes through a "whining" period if it's been shut down and allowed to cool.  Only lasts a minute or so, but it still gets under my skin.


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## cntbill (Feb 4, 2008)

Last night did my weekly cleaning thing, so with the cold start once again the Bang noise... didn't seem as loud but then I was expecting it.

yea that whining sound would get under my skin... reminding you that you have two stripped bolts...


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## petejung (Feb 4, 2008)

I remember one of the first times we heard the bang... Our dog was laying in front of the stove, and jumped about 4 feet when that thing popped.


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## cntbill (Feb 4, 2008)

LOL   I can relate.... with your dog


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## bret4 (Feb 4, 2008)

ElPedro and Bill,

This may sound kind of funny but I wonder if you have ran you stove at full temp for say 1 or 2 hours? Setting 9, 9 or maybe 9, 7. Just wondering if that would get the metal hot enough to stress relieve it and hopefully stop it from making that noise. I guess there is just as good of a chance that doing that would not help at all.


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## cntbill (Feb 5, 2008)

bret4

Interesting thought, but yes I had it running at 9 a few times for a at least a couple few hours, when I was testing the thermostat.  

This morning it was running at low, 1, but because it was a cool damp morning, snow then rain. I turned it up a bit to 5 and as it was starting to get going at 5 it popped again, but not very loud, I would say a normal expansion noise.


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## cntbill (Feb 5, 2008)

Well doing my "now" regular nightly cleaning / scraping, and since I have been running it with the extra seal material on the hopper lid; - the augur tube end was not quite a caked, neither were any of the other general areas, and the glass was somewhat cleaner. But I can not say for sure that the extra seal improved it because I was running the stove at 5 for a while today. Also on restart it made the bang sound.  

I recorded the sound last nigh and tonight with my cell phone. I am attaching the recordings if any would like to listen. I am not familiar with the file format but I was able to listen to them using Quick Time on my iMac.   Used bluetooth to transfer from the phone to the iMac.

OK Guess one can only attach an image file. So here are the links to the files.

This is the other night.

http://www.cnt-web.biz/ebayimg/Stove.amr

This is tonight.

http://www.cnt-web.biz/ebayimg/Stove2.amr


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## cntbill (Feb 5, 2008)

Ok... here is a link to a wav file that I think might work better for some. This is the second one from the previous post. 

http://www.cnt-web.biz/ebayimg/stove2.wav


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## cntbill (Feb 5, 2008)

Got a different question, but not sure if I should start another thread. 

What do you think of or is your experience with the other models above this one, the 25PDV and or the 55-SHP240L. Do these model also burn black on the Low, 1 setting?


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## steveh50 (Feb 7, 2008)

I had the same problem black glass lots of unburned pellets in the burn pot. Tried everything englander told me to do and check. I played with pipe length 3 ft, 4ft, 5ft. I took everything off and just run it straight out the wall and put a vent cap on and I also did away with the outside air. I cut about 12 inches off the outside air pipe and run it over to the exhust blower which does blow some air out the back side, now that air is blowing into the burn pot. this worked great for me. I have been burning for about a week now, everything burns up, hardly no ashes, and the glass is clean.


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## cntbill (Feb 8, 2008)

Funny, last night looking at my setup I was just thinking about a way of trying to get more air in. I was considering a small fan in the fresh air pipe.... interesting results here.


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## steveh50 (Feb 8, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing. I am going to make something to house a small computer fan and control it with a fan control for a computer. That way I can control the air going into the burn pot. I am also going to hook the outside air back up.


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## steveh50 (Feb 8, 2008)

Let me say that I think by taking all the pipe off made the most difference. Maybe the exhust blower is not strong enough.


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## cntbill (Feb 8, 2008)

I have a couple of small fans that came out of an computer server appliance that are 120v and really push some air, but they are 4". I know I have some other smaller fans from some computers so I'm thinking of going that route, and a power supply from a computer to run it (120v to 12v fans) just need to decide which as I have a few...lol  

post back with your out come... 

"Exhaust Fan not powerful enough"   - I was wondering that myself....


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## steveh50 (Feb 8, 2008)

By doing what I did, my stove make so much more heat and burns less to make that heat. I have almost no ashes as before, I could have both sides of the burn pot full in a few days as that is where I put the ashes until I cleaned it.


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## cntbill (Feb 8, 2008)

It's good to know that my thinking of getting more air in might work, as it has for you. Going to experiment with the rigging tomorrow and see how it goes...

Thanks


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## staplebox (Feb 8, 2008)

Are you all talking about adding a fan in-line into the outside air tube to force air into the stove or forgoing the outside air and just forcing air into the stove from right behind it?  I have a corner install and ~ 2ft of outside air tube and can feel a pretty strong suction on the outside end. I am of course intersted in the most efficient (cheapest) hottest burn I can get.


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## pegdot (Feb 8, 2008)

shl9, did you just run the hose over to the backside of the exhaust blower and leave it laying there or did you attach it somehow? Has anyone just tried running their stove with the OAK disconnected? 

I'm still trying to understand how this stove isn't getting enough air for a complete burn. I hear other stove owners talking about having a problem with having to reduce their air flow so as not to have pellets "jumping" out of their burn pot like pop corn and I have to shake my head because my stove doesn't blow hard enough to blow fluffy ash from directly in front of the air inlet! I know that my OAK is drawing strong because it will suck the flame out on a lighter held the to outside end of it but somehow that air flow isn't making it to the burn pot. 

I've had an idea that the wear plate in the burn pot what too restrictive so for the last couple of days I've been playing with different wear plates in the burn pot. The stove burns great, white ash, no soot, good heat, no clinkers, and clean glass, with just a grate in place of the metal wear plate but the ash falls through and piles up in front of the air inlet at the bottom of the pot. The fact that the ash can build up not only in front of but actually IN the end of that tube tells me that there just isn't much air coming through that opening. Shouldn't there be enough air flow to at least blow ash out of the tube? Where the heck is all that outside airflow I'm seeing going? I'm stumped.

I'm out of metal stock to make new wear plates from so I think I'll just try unhooking my OAK today and see what happens. Old house that isn't by any stretch of the imagination air tight so I don't think I'm in any danger of creating a negative pressure situation but I have to caution those of you with newer/tighter houses about the potential for problems without outside air for the stove.


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## cntbill (Feb 8, 2008)

pegdot, 

Interesting experiments... Here is my theory on the wear plate / burn pot. 

The distance between the auger tube and the top of the wear plate is to small, causing the pellets to burn and build up at the end of the auger tube, this allowing the build up of carbon in the end of the tube. 

The area that the pellets end up and burn the holes could be in a better place.

What I was thinking of trying is to order an new wear plate, (this way I still have an unmodified one to go back to) and then take it to some one who has a torch and have them heat it up and create a valley / indentation about an 1 1/2" wide, sided to side and 2 1/2" long, front to back and about a 1/2" deep. This way the pellets would fall away from the auger and burn more in the middle of the burn pot area.

On the air flow it is interesting to note that the combustion blower for this model 25-PDVC and the next larger unit 25-PDV share the same one, or at least it is the same part number.


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## pegdot (Feb 8, 2008)

Hmmm....interesting idea getting the pellets away from the auger tip. I'm not the worlds best fabricator but when I get some more stock I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. Without altering the lip that holds the wear plate in it's going to be a little tricky but ya never know till ya try!  ;-) 

I've left my original wear plate alone. I've just been replacing it with the ones I've made during the day when I can monitor how it's burning and putting the original back in at night.


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## steveh50 (Feb 8, 2008)

pedgot, I did just run a a short length over to the back of the exhust blower. I you put your hand down by the blower, you can feel some air blowing from the exhust blower. Not sure how the low air settings work, but I have mine on 7 or 8. If I put it on 9, all the pelletts are burned and all I have is ashes. If I put it on 9, everything is burned, but the ashes are clinkered together. I guess that would be too much air.


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## steveh50 (Feb 8, 2008)

Also, like I said in one of my other post, I think taking all the pipe off the outside made the most difference. I am going to play around with that again.


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## cntbill (Feb 9, 2008)

OK... I went ahead and put the fan in the intake hose and ran it last night.  So this morning when I was cleaning the burn pot - Ashes were a little less, but what was most noticeable there were no clinkers to speak of. OK I thought cool... so I lowered the Low burn rate to 3 and the Low air to 7.  Everything seemed to work ok, fire was getting enough pellets to keep from going out and from smoldering. Only thing temp was down 20*, I figured this would be somewhat acceptable to have a low consumption of pellet and still enough heat to keep the house warm.

Problem... Later on this evening I thought I would run it on high to check it out and to warm up the house a bit and at the same time burn up some pellets that were not good. As for the heck of it I thought I would try some of those Pennington pellets that I read about in another post out of curiosity and as it turned out the couple bags that I picked up were the bad batch bags...   

Put it on high and what was happening, the auger would deliver a bit of pellets get a good fire going like normal but then it would die out.... hmmmm thought maybe the pellets were jamming in the auger, check it, OK. What I found out by putting my finger on the top auger motor feeling it turn was about every 5 sec. it would run for a few seconds. But as I checked when the fire would get going all of a sudden the top auger would stop running its cycle, it was being turned off some how. So turned the fan off, set stove to 7 -7, and it went back to working normally. 

So I'm not sure of the pressure switch setting and such, but I believe the extra air flow was causing it to trip one, stopping the top auger feed. Bottom line.. improves burn but only on low.

I have another problem, but I don't believe it is from my testing here, as I set the stove back to the previous settings and did not use the extra fan. I am going to start a new post on that.


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## packerfan (Feb 9, 2008)

Bill... said:
			
		

> OK... I went ahead and put the fan in the intake hose and ran it last night.  So this morning when I was cleaning the burn pot - Ashes were a little less, but what was most noticeable there were no clinkers to speak of. OK I thought cool... so I lowered the Low burn rate to 3 and the Low air to 7.  Everything seemed to work ok, fire was getting enough pellets to keep from going out and from smoldering. Only thing temp was down 20*, I figured this would be somewhat acceptable to have a low consumption of pellet and still enough heat to keep the house warm.
> 
> Problem... Later on this evening I thought I would run it on high to check it out and to warm up the house a bit and at the same time burn up some pellets that were not good. As for the heck of it I thought I would try some of those Pennington pellets that I read about in another post out of curiosity and as it turned out the couple bags that I picked up were the bad batch bags...
> 
> ...



I'm not sure, but the top auger could be stopping if the temperature was getting too high.   I believe this is a built in safety feature to prevent the stove from overheating.

I've had the feed stop  on my pdv 25, and at first I thought I had pellets that were bridging.  Turned out that my top auger was stopping due to high temp.   This happened to me with  a feed setting of only 3 and blower at 9.


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## cntbill (Feb 9, 2008)

Interesting, Check out a post I just made.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/15083/


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## pegdot (Feb 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your problem, Bill. Scary!

Well, I disconnected the OAK yesterday and then proceeded to run every other appliance in the house to see if I was going to have a negative pressure problem. No problems. On the up side, after running it on 3-3 for well over 24 hours now the glass is completely clean. It's never done that. There is a visible difference in the flame. It's lighter in color, brighter, and more active than it's ever been but...I still had a decent size clinker in the pot this morning. Not quite as large as it normally is but still not a complete burn by any means. It's unseasonably warm here right now but as soon as it cools off again I'll do some comparisons on heat output. For now, I'm leaving the OAK off just to see how long it will burn before I have to clean the glass.


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## cntbill (Feb 9, 2008)

Peggy, 

Out of curiosity, what is your setup of you OAK?

OK on the Bright side found out what my problem was. When I purchased my stove one of the guys suggested to put a vermin screen on the exhaust, so I found a screen that goes in gutters and thought that would work... well.... that was plugged up with soot...  Live and Learn     I'm thinking that maybe the extra air flow might have had something to do with it, like blowing the loose soot in the system and just a little too much at one time for the screen, hence plugging it up...


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## pegdot (Feb 10, 2008)

My plan was to rebuild my hearth this summer and reinstall the stove catty corner. (It's just sitting square to the wall now.) So, I didn't cut any length off the OAK just stuck it through the wall and put the cover over the end to keep critters out. It's long but it's straight. Shorter would probably be better. 

The glass is still perfectly clean this morning! One thing I will have to change if I decide to leave the OAK off is to move my humidifier to another part of the house. It's been in the same room as the stove but the stove is now drawing the moist air right towards it so the humidity level in the house has dropped.


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## bret4 (Feb 10, 2008)

I wonder if smoke would ever come out the air intake for the OAK in a power outage? That's the only reason I didn't try it yet. Sounds like you are getting a much better burn with out it. Keep us updated on how it goes. Would be interesting to pull the plug to see if any smoke backs up out the OAK intake without the OAK on the stove.


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## cntbill (Feb 10, 2008)

Peggy,

Just for the heck of it I disconnected my OAK to see if I would get similar results, one thing I did also was to leave the discounted opening about 2" away so it could still draw outside air. But still ended up with a build up in the glass, although a bit lighter, but still not right in my opinion. 

I'm beginning to believe I should have used 4" vent pipe for my installation even though the tech I talked to said 3" was good enough, which kind of gets under my skin because if I needed 4" I would not have wasted my money, time, and effort with the 3".

So this leads me to another question as to what is the length of your vent and are you using 3 or 4".  Thanks for your time.


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## steveh50 (Feb 10, 2008)

I am using 3 inch. I still think the exhust blower is not strong enough on this stove. Maybe 4 inch would help, don't know.


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## cntbill (Feb 11, 2008)

slh9 - Figured out why the fan stopped the auger motor. One of the switches detect that the door is opened and stops the top auger motor. So I am thinking when the fan was running it created pressure in the burn chamber thus fooling the system thinking the door was open... Lack of Vacuum,  switch opens,  brakes circuit,  auger motor stops.  

Well... wish I found this forum before getting and hooking my stove up.... 

I believe a post here somewhere by pegdot linked to a page on how to figure pipe length.  So with those calculations  I have a caculated length of about 25 ft. Out the back of my stove  -  T=5,  6x1'=3,  90=5,  1 horizontal=1,  90=5,  3'=1.5,  90=5, then terminator=?

And so yes, my guess also that there is an exhaust blower problem also.  

pegdot -  Your OAK, I'm guessing here that you used the one that came with the stove... My guess is with the hose, I'm thinking after a certain distance there is too much turbulence because of the spiral design of the hose. The manual says it's a 6' hose and anything beyond that should be 3" dia, hmmm maybe in reality max should be 4'.  If yours goes Straight maybe you could try just a straight piece of pipe - PVC or the like and being smooth on the inside will allow the air to flow smoother. ?


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## pegdot (Feb 11, 2008)

I suspect you could be right about the length and design of the OAK. I did use the hose that came with the stove but I may try changing it out for a straight hard pipe. As for my vent, I used the 3" corn vent pipe simply because it was all that I could get locally. I've got the adapter, 1' horizontal through the wall to the clean out T, 3' vertical to a 90* elbow, 1' horizontal to the cap. Our house is a craftsman bungalow with 3' deep overhangs and the current set up is sooting the bead-board directly over it so I plan on extending the vent through the roof this summer. 

I've still got the OAK disconnected and the glass has stayed remarkably clean. I did a through cleaning yesterday of the whole stove and the exhaust and I did get a little black off of the glass but nothing like I'd been getting. It still appeared to be clean with only a slight haze. 

I got some more metal stock Sat. and finally had time to knock out yet another wear plate and install it yesterday. I used the same hole placement as the original plate but increased the size and added about a half dozen in places where the original plate didn't have any. Funny thing, suddenly I have flame in front of those holes on the sides of the burn pot where I've never seen flame before. Not at all sure why increasing the air flow through the plate would cause that. Seems a little backwards to me. Still had a clinker this morning but it was much smaller than normal. I'm going to remove the plate and add a few more holes later today to see what happens.

After looking at the lip that the wear plate rest on it's obvious to me that it's designed to keep the pellets against the back wall. Anyone have any ideas why? I realize that the igniter is there but is there some other obvious reason to want the pellets to pile up against the wall? Better heat transfer to the baffle perhaps?


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## cntbill (Feb 11, 2008)

A  Lot shorter pipe, probably the reason you got yours to burn cleaner... 

About the wear plate, I was also thinking about the igniter, but then on start up there is like 2 cupfuls in the burn pot before mine gets started... Still, be interested in your experiment. 

But for now... Well new problem,  :-(   Room air blower motor making a loud screeching noise comes and goes. Guess I'm going to call in and get this straighten out, soon as I get some time...lol


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 12, 2008)

bret4 said:
			
		

> I wonder if smoke would ever come out the air intake for the OAK in a power outage? That's the only reason I didn't try it yet. Sounds like you are getting a much better burn with out it. Keep us updated on how it goes. Would be interesting to pull the plug to see if any smoke backs up out the OAK intake without the OAK on the stove.



short answer: yes it would.


as for adding induction fans , i wouldnt recommend it. messing with air properties isnt a trivial exercise and could bring about damage to your unit.


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## cntbill (Feb 12, 2008)

Mike - What's your experience and thoughts on pegdot's wear plate alterations?


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## cntbill (Feb 12, 2008)

Peggy - 

Went to a HD to pick up a few bags of the Fireside Ultra's figure I would give them a try since most of the posts in another thread is mostly positive. While there, out of curiosity I went over to a 25-PDV to look at the wear plate, the first thing I noticed it didn't have the two little half circles on the auger end, and instead had 2 extra holes, even though the burn pot had the half circle cut outs. Not sure if you seen one from a 25-PDV and thought you might be interested for a comparison. Attached it the photo.

Oh just in case anyone is interested HD has the Englander Stove's on sale at 20% off... (I wonder if they would drop to the 50% like Lowes?  hmmm)


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## pegdot (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks Bill! That's interesting. The one in your photo is the exact reverse of my original


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## cntbill (Feb 13, 2008)

pegdot said:
			
		

> Thanks Bill! That's interesting. The one in your photo is the exact reverse of my original



So I take it that your original don't have the little half circle cut outs?  On my wear plate the half circle cut-outs allow small pieces to fall under it into the bottom of the burning pot and increases the amount of ash that would block air flow. I have yet to reach that point, but it is an decrease in performance, pellet pieces that don't burn, hence no heat from them, and the pellet coals that fall, well no heat from them either. So maybe newer version here...


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## cntbill (Feb 15, 2008)

Quick update.

Tonight while cleaning the stove, it came to me... lol... I remembered was reading another post where the door glass gasket was left out.

When I was checking the door gasket for leaks,  I never checked the glass...  dahhh

So on start-up got a lighter and there it was! Air leaks in two places on the top and one on each side... So part of my problems solved - I believe anyways.


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## pegdot (Feb 15, 2008)

Wow! I hope replacing the gasket will fix it for you, Bill! :coolsmile: 

It's funny but when I finally got to watch Mike's video and saw those big cut outs on the rear of the wear plate I thought "Ah Ha! Mine is missing those. That must be the problem!" Mike told me that my model isn't supposed to have those....oh well...back to the drawing board. lol


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## cntbill (Feb 15, 2008)

Yes, so do I    Just got in so I'm going to have to get on the horn soon and give the guys in VA a call....


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 16, 2008)

Bill... said:
			
		

> Peggy -
> 
> Went to a HD to pick up a few bags of the Fireside Ultra's figure I would give them a try since most of the posts in another thread is mostly positive. While there, out of curiosity I went over to a 25-PDV to look at the wear plate, the first thing I noticed it didn't have the two little half circles on the auger end, and instead had 2 extra holes, even though the burn pot had the half circle cut outs. Not sure if you seen one from a 25-PDV and thought you might be interested for a comparison. Attached it the photo.
> 
> Oh just in case anyone is interested HD has the Englander Stove's on sale at 20% off... (I wonder if they would drop to the 50% like Lowes?  hmmm)




bill, the wear plate in that picture is for a model 25-pdv your avatar is a 25-pdvc , which stove do you have again?if its a pdv, you have the right plate, however it is backwards , the hole patters are reversed, it was bent backwards, if you have the unit  that is pictured in your avatar , you have the wrong wear plate and the unit will not burn at all correctly. if you would call my shop and i'll send you a new one thats  proper number is 800-245-6489, if you get this tonight i will be in the office tomorrow (saturday) from 9-12 eastern , or call me during the week


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## cntbill (Feb 16, 2008)

Mike, I called in this evening wanting to go over a couple of things and talked to Lenny, but a bit to late at 4:55, so I'll be calling tomorrow. The picture was for comparison if pegdot was interested. Yes my avatar is a picture of my stove.  Thanks


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## stoveguy2esw (Feb 16, 2008)

Bill... said:
			
		

> Mike, I called in this evening wanting to go over a couple of things and talked to Lenny, but a bit to late at 4:55, so I'll be calling tomorrow. The picture was for comparison if pegdot was interested. Yes my avatar is a picture of my stove.  Thanks



ok kool, i'll be in the office by 9am


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## packerfan (Feb 20, 2008)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> Bill... said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That may help to explain things for me.   After reading this thread, I checked out the wear plate on my 25-pdv and it is also bent the same way!   Am I correct in understanding the previous posts that there should be more air holes in the wear plate towards the front of the stove?(the door)  If so, that's probably why I'm getting a lot of unburned pellets in my burn pot.    I guess I'll be calling ESW in the morning.


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## cntbill (Feb 20, 2008)

packerfan said:
			
		

> stoveguy2esw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm, seems I'm stirring the pot with that picture... Just to be clear, the picture is of a wear plate of a 25-PDV that is a store display at a local Home Depot.

Since I took the picture with my phone, transfered it to my computer, then cropped it and uploaded it, I figured I better double check the original photo and it is the same layout. So I'm sure that through the process of transferring the photo here that it is not an mirror image, maybe a mis-bent one at HD..?


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## packerfan (Feb 20, 2008)

Bill... said:
			
		

> packerfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine is exactly as pictured.


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## cntbill (Feb 20, 2008)

Interesting, guess a call to ESW would be recommended then.


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## pegdot (Feb 20, 2008)

LOL Now I'm confused! My stove is a PDVE and my wear plate is the reverse of the one pictured. In other words the three small holes at the back that are in a straight line, not crooked, are on the left rear of the plate. Is that what you have, packerfan? If so, I think that ours are correct and the one in the photo was somehow flipped over and then bent. I believe the side with the extra holes is supposed to be below the igniter. Have I got that right, Mike?


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## packerfan (Feb 20, 2008)

Pegdot,
as Mike posted above, the photo is the wear plate for a 25-pdv, so I have no idea if it is also the correct one for your application.  The plate on my stove has the exact same hole pattern as the one in the pic.


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