# Ideal Steel update



## JA600L (Jan 21, 2015)

Hi guys, 
    I figured I would give you a little update on how the Ideal Steel is doing after a few months of burning.
1. The stove is very capable of running low and slow.  I am away 11 hours a day and it keeps my house warm (70 average) while I'm gone     ( 3 bedroom rancher heating from basement ). I always have charcoal bodies of the logs when I get home.  So I can stir them up a bit and get even more burn time if I want.  I was getting 16 hour weekend burns when I was home during late shoulder season. 

2. It survives single digit weather for 11 hours.  It did this without flaw.

3. When you burn this stove hot,  it really pumps heat.  On a 12 degree day I took the upstairs thermostat from 69 to 76 degrees in 1 hour on a hot burn.    

4. The stovepipe stays clean.  I just get a light soot that easily cleans up. 
5. The catalyst really reeks havoc on the radiator plate above it.  I have seen this plate bright red.  It flakes the metal so you have to clean that off the cat from time to time. I can see that part eventually thinning out and needing replaced. 

6. The stove really leans toward a cat burn.  The secondaries are very effective when you ask for it, but when you turn down the air it loves to settle into a cat burn.  The box goes black and the temps really increase then stabilize without overfiring.  500-650 hot spot temps are common. At this point the cat and plate above are Red. You can see this by tilting the lid up slightly. 

7. It is not great at burning down coals.  The primary air is not as effective as my Quadra-fire was during coaling.  The good news is this makes for a prolonged burn during shoulder. 

Basically, my heat pump has not come on once this winter. I can burn overnight on 3 medium splits of hardwood and have coals in the morning with 70 + temps.  It is an effective whole house heater.


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## Badger (Jan 21, 2015)

Thanks for the update!  I'm very interested in this stove.


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## JA600L (Jan 21, 2015)

Badger said:


> Thanks for the update!  I'm very interested in this stove.



If you have any questions let me know.


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## begreen (Jan 21, 2015)

Good information. It's good to hear that it is heating well over a wide temp range.


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## kuhner (Jan 22, 2015)

Dont want to hijack your thread JA600L.  I just installed my Ideal Steel first week of December and have pretty much have the same expiriences as you have.
I like the stove. My last stove was an old non-epa Brunco Fireglow. Heated my house no problem, but really hated it duriing the fall and spring, choking it down pretty much plugged up my chimney with creosote. I burned that stove for about 25 years.   I did like the fact it had a thermostatic damper and you could load it up and walk away.  As you know you will never do that with an Ideal Steel, but thats the nature of the beast, the cost for efficiency. 
I routinely get 10 "strong" hours out it burning it at the notch below the big quarter mark. It will still have coals and be down to about 125 top temp. at 12 hours or so, a few small pieces and about 30 minutes and the cat is back up and working. I havent noticed the radiator plate having damage on mine and have never had to burn mine for any length of time past 475 or so, about 1/3 damper.

I will add that I ordered my stove as a plain jane, no decorations at all, legs and ash pan, and soapstone lining is all.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2015)

Hey kuhner, welcome. Can you post a picture of your stove? I'd like to see it without all the gearhead nonsense.


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## JA600L (Jan 22, 2015)

Welcome Kuhner, what kind of wood are you burning in yours?  I'm burning premium hardwoods. Ash, locust,  mulberry,  and oak.  
Depending how much heat you need,  this stove will burn over 16 hours on a low setting.


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## kuhner (Jan 22, 2015)

Here you go. Hope it works.  I burn mixed hard woods. Been mostly oak and hickory. It's been seasoning for about a year.
Today I loaded 4 large pieces and a small 3" round. Box was about 3/4 full. After 12 hours stove top was 216 degrees. Had good coals left. I am burning between 1/4 and 1/3 less wood.

Thanks moderator for adding post


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 22, 2015)

kuhner said:


> Here you go. Hope it works.  I burn mixed hard woods. Been mostly oak and hickory. It's been seasoning for about a year.
> Today I loaded 4 large pieces and a small 3" round. Box was about 3/4 full. After 12 hours stove top was 216 degrees. Had good coals left. I am burning between 1/4 and 1/3 less wood.
> 
> Thanks moderator for adding post


One year of seasoning for oak and hickory is not nearly long enough.  As the wood seasons longer your stove performance will improve.


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## fire_man (Jan 22, 2015)

Why can't you open up the draft for the last 2 hours to burn down the coals? 

If you want them burned down it probably means you want more heat and opening the draft will do both.
One nice thing about the Progress is it religiously burns down the coals even when on a low setting. But It does not burn as low as the IS for shoulder season.


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## JA600L (Jan 22, 2015)

Well that would be ideal,  but I'm not going to wake up 2 hours earlier just to open the draft.  It really isn't bad.  I built a nice rake and if I use that the coals burn much faster.


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## fire_man (Jan 22, 2015)

Yea, I understand. I used to have to wake up early to burn down the coals in my Fireview, that was a drag. I guess the trick is to burn on a higher setting for the whole load.


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## bobdog2o02 (Jan 22, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Well that would be ideal,  but I'm not going to wake up 2 hours earlier just to open the draft.  It really isn't bad.  I built a nice rake and if I use that the coals burn much faster.



I live in Centerville, where is there a dealer around here?  I bought our BK at Bowman in Ephrata.....   Our cat stove has been fighting heavy coaling the past few weeks here too.


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## JA600L (Jan 23, 2015)

No Dealer.  Manufacturer direct.  My total cost with shipping was $2300.


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## bobdog2o02 (Jan 23, 2015)

That's real close to what we spent, if I ever need another stove a hybrid might be in order.


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## ambull01 (Jan 23, 2015)

JA600L said:


> No Dealer.  Manufacturer direct.  My total cost with shipping was $2300.



Do you feel that the "works" model is worth the added cost?


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## TheRambler (Jan 23, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Do you feel that the "works" model is worth the added cost?


 
About half of the extra money for the works is for pure aesthetics. Its the custom sides , cooktop, and andirons. Otherwise you would just get the plain jane style with no custom designs/artwork. The rest of the additional money in the works includes things like the optional ash pan, and the soapstone liner. Ash pan or no is a personal choice, though the soapstone liner is a definite benefit as it is adding more thermal mass to the stove.


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## ambull01 (Jan 23, 2015)

TheRambler said:


> About half of the extra money for the works is for pure aesthetics. Its the custom sides , cooktop, and andirons. Otherwise you would just get the plain jane style with no custom designs/artwork. The rest of the additional money in the works includes things like the optional ash pan, and the soapstone liner. Ash pan or no is a personal choice, though the soapstone liner is a definite benefit as it is adding more thermal mass to the stove.



The only thing I'm interested in getting above the base model is the soapstone liner. Well I would like the white paint too, not sure if you have to splurge for the works to get it though.


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## Jags (Jan 23, 2015)

In my opinion, that is the best looking IS I have seen yet.  The add on stuff doesn't do a thing for me.


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## Grisu (Jan 23, 2015)

Jags said:


> In my opinion, that is the best looking IS I have seen yet.  The add on stuff doesn't do a thing for me.



I fully agree. The only change I may consider would be to have the sides/legs painted in a different color like the red here for the Neo 2.5: http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/stoves/neo-25/ 
And I really dislike the handle; I wish they would offer some other option for it.


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## Jo191145 (Jan 23, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> The only thing I'm interested in getting above the base model is the soapstone liner. Well I would like the white paint too, not sure if you have to splurge for the works to get it though.




No. Woodstock will build it anyway you want and the custom paint colors are free.


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## ambull01 (Jan 23, 2015)

Grisu said:


> I fully agree. The only change I may consider would be to have the sides/legs painted in a different color like the red here for the Neo 2.5: http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/stoves/neo-25/
> And I really dislike the handle; I wish they would offer some other option for it.



What stove/colors are you guys referring to? On the Ideal Steel Hybrid page they have a stove with Almond Body/Surf Sand Accents. That things would look awesome if it was all almond. I think it would look less commercial/cumbersome in a light solid color. The handle does look a bit strange. Reminds me of one of those all metal knives. I wonder if you could slip a some sort of cover over the handle?


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## firefighterjake (Jan 23, 2015)

Jags said:


> In my opinion, that is the best looking IS I have seen yet.  The add on stuff doesn't do a thing for me.



My exact feelings . . . I've always hated the look of the IS . . . this one . . . not a bad looking woodstove!


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## Grisu (Jan 23, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> What stove/colors are you guys referring to? On the Ideal Steel Hybrid page they have a stove with Almond Body/Surf Sand Accents. That things would look awesome if it was all almond. I think it would look less commercial/cumbersome in a light solid color.



Check out this site: http://www.woodstove.com/ideal-steel-color-viewer You can also give them a call to inquire what potential other colors they may be able to do.


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## ambull01 (Jan 23, 2015)

Grisu said:


> Check out this site: http://www.woodstove.com/ideal-steel-color-viewer You can also give them a call to inquire what potential other colors they may be able to do.



I looked at those colors. Accent colors are definitely out for me, plus all the additional stuff. The additional items make the stove look like one of those open faced watches where you can see everything. Looks cool on watches but a bit too much for a stove IMO. Now all I have to do is convince the wife this is the stove we need instead of the Englander 30-NCH.


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## JA600L (Jan 23, 2015)

The add on stuff didn't attract me either until I got it.  Then it was like "wow" this thing is cool.  It all comes together very nice when you have it in person.  It is a more modern look so I don't expect everyone to like it.  

The cool thing is you can order it plain Jane and add the stuff later if you want.  You can take this whole stove apart and put it back together.


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2015)

Jags said:


> In my opinion, that is the best looking IS I have seen yet.  The add on stuff doesn't do a thing for me.



Have to agree. The bling detracts from the basic lines of the stove. To me it looks much better without it. But there may be some homes where the gearhead look work, especially if there is a bike also hanging on the wall.


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## kuhner (Jan 23, 2015)

I liked the decorations and spent about a week trying to decide what I wanted, then I started to think all of those little nooks and crannies would attrack dust and be hard to clean especially when hot.  I am a single, widower and believe me cleaning and dusting are very low on my to do list.  The less I have to do the better ! 
I like the clean square lines.


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## Jo191145 (Jan 23, 2015)

JA600L said:


> The add on stuff didn't attract me either until I got it.  Then it was like "wow" this thing is cool.  It all comes together very nice when you have it in person.  It is a more modern look so I don't expect everyone to like it.
> 
> The cool thing is you can order it plain Jane and add the stuff later if you want.  You can take this whole stove apart and put it back together.



From your photo I can see the sidewalls of the firebox are soapstone but it looks like regular firebrick on the bottom. Is it cardboard I'm seeing or brick?


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## kuhner (Jan 23, 2015)

The photo is not very good. It is all soapstone lined, no firebrick.  The brown you are seeing is wood, the little bluish spot through the glass is a flame burning,


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## JA600L (Jan 23, 2015)

The bottom of the box is regular firebrick.  That is not as critical as the ash layer helps insulate the box.


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 23, 2015)

JA600L said:


> The add on stuff didn't attract me either until I got it.  Then it was like "wow" this thing is cool.  It all comes together very nice when you have it in person.  It is a more modern look so I don't expect everyone to like it.
> 
> The cool thing is you can order it plain Jane and add the stuff later if you want.  You can take this whole stove apart and put it back together.


This is the same old 'form versus function' thing that BK has been dealing with for years.  From all I read on the other site, this stove is an awesome performer, but clearly has a look that will not appeal to all of us.  Although I must admit that it is starting to grow on me.  Especially with all the new color combinations coming out.  Like I said, to each his own.


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## JA600L (Jan 24, 2015)

10 hours later this happened when I opened up the air.


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## JA600L (Jan 24, 2015)

I agree with the comments about the looks.  I was on the fence about the Progress Hybrid.  I am heating from the basement in a room that is visible,  but does not stand out much.  It seemed like a waste to hide a Progress.  

      I wanted a workhorse and that's what I got.  I wanted the extra mass of the soapstone and the standing bear andirons do look really cool.  I also love the top burners with my lantern design.  If you are on the fence about buying one because of the looks, make sure you see one in person.  You might change your mind.  If you live near me I would be glad to show it to you.


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## ambull01 (Jan 24, 2015)

JA600L said:


> I agree with the comments about the looks.  I was on the fence about the Progress Hybrid.  I am heating from the basement in a room that is visible,  but does not stand out much.  It seemed like a waste to hide a Progress.
> 
> I wanted a workhorse and that's what I got.  I wanted the extra mass of the soapstone and the standing bear andirons do look really cool.  I also love the top burners with my lantern design.  If you are on the fence about buying one because of the looks, make sure you see one in person.  You might change your mind.  If you live near me I would be glad to show it to you.



How do you get the heat up from the basement to the rest of the house? If my stove was in the basement I wouldn't care how it looked and definitely wouldn't buy spiffy model. 

I live fairly close to you. Can I borrow it for a weekend? lol. They only sell the stoves directly from the manufacturer right? I wish there was a showroom near me.


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## JA600L (Jan 24, 2015)

Heating from the basement works well for me. I insulated  and air sealed the whole basement.  I blew 26 bags of cellulose into the garage ceiling/ bedroom floor.  I brought my attic insulation up to code and air sealed most of that. So running this stove and heating both levels is a piece of cake.  It definitely warms the rooms.  The Quad was more convective and brought the temps up but the house felt cold.  This thing effectively heats the house and you feel warm.  I never wear long sleeves inside.  

If you ever plan to come up to lancaster give me a heads up.  I'll show it to you.


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## osagebow (Jan 24, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Do you feel that the "works" model is worth the added cost?


I wondered the same. After adding  the soapstone and ashpan I wanted, I figured what the heck. We have power outages, get a cook top....It was fun coming up with a design also.  From a basement performance standpoint, I can echo what JA600 says.


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## ambull01 (Jan 24, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Heating from the basement works well for me. I insulated  and air sealed the whole basement.  I blew 26 bags of cellulose into the garage ceiling/ bedroom floor.  I brought my attic insulation up to code and air sealed most of that. So running this stove and heating both levels is a piece of cake.  It definitely warms the rooms.  The Quad was more convective and brought the temps up but the house felt cold.  This thing effectively heats the house and you feel warm.  I never wear long sleeves inside.
> 
> If you ever plan to come up to lancaster give me a heads up.  I'll show it to you.



So why do you think the IS makes the house feel warmer vs the Quad (whatever that is lol)? Could it just be because you've taken the time to insulate your house? The soapstone lining? 

I don't really understand how they expect to sell stoves when people are unable to see it. How do people even know about them?


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## ambull01 (Jan 24, 2015)

osagebow said:


> I wondered the same. After adding  the soapstone and ashpan I wanted, I figured what the heck. We have power outages, get a cook top....It was fun coming up with a design also.  From a basement performance standpoint, I can echo what JA600 says.



Okay I have a dumb question. If you don't splurge for the cook top, there's no way to use the top as a cooking platform? I should probably just download/request a catalog or something from the company. I bet most of my questions are already spelled out somewhere.


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## JA600L (Jan 24, 2015)

You can cook on any top of a stove technically.  The middle burner on this stove comes off and you can cook on the stainless plate directly above the cat for sautéing and boiling.


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## Sconnie Burner (Jan 25, 2015)

How many sq ft are you guys heating? I am looking to have mine in the lower level living area with a open floor plan built for heating with a woodstove. I may be in the process of building a new house this summer and am really leaning towards the IS. But I will probably be a little over the recommended sq ft.

Running a quadra-fire 3100 in the 2300 sq ft house I'm renting right now and it is nice, keeps the house plenty warm (sometimes too warm) but not a fan of the heat it up and glide method. Thats why I'm looking for a cat or hybrid.


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## JA600L (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm heating about 1800 sqft. I can tell that this stove is overkill for my house.  I've heard of a lot of guys stuffing it full to get their heat in large older houses. I don't need to do that unless it's really cold.  I wouldn't be afraid to heat a bigger house with it. Especially new construction. With a well insulated house you could run it low and slow and really save on wood like I am.


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## begreen (Jan 25, 2015)

Square footage heated is a huge variable outside of the stove capacity. Houses vary enormously in their design, ceiling heights, insulation and location. We've seen 3 cu ft stoves in leaky, poorly insulated 1000 sq ft houses and in 3500 sq ft houses, where in both cases the homeowner was happy with the fit. It's a judgement call that has to be made on the house + environment and not on the size alone.


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## ambull01 (Jan 25, 2015)

JA600L said:


> You can cook on any top of a stove technically.  The middle burner on this stove comes off and you can cook on the stainless plate directly above the cat for sautéing and boiling.



Nice. I can't wait to cook something on it. It will be like camping right in my living room.


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## clark77 (Jan 26, 2015)

Can someone tell me what the dimensions are for the inside of the fire box?


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## JA600L (Jan 27, 2015)

It's a 3.2 cubic foot capacity.  You can fit 22" splits east and west. 18" North and South.  It's a little too hot to get the tape out.


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## CptJera (Jan 27, 2015)

Good input on the thread! Placing our order today.  Here's the design we chose.  Wife likes the design stuff and as someone else mentioned, the more I looked, the more it grew on me.  Since I'll be sitting nearby and staring at it a lot during our winters, may as well have something nice to look at, right?

By the way, I'm backing mine up to an existing fireplace and 20' tall (soon to be lined) chimney.  Can you give a yay or nay on including an inline damper?  Is it needed with this stove?  Thx!


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## clark77 (Jan 27, 2015)

JA600L said:


> It's a 3.2 cubic foot capacity.  You can fit 22" splits east and west. 18" North and South.  It's a little too hot to get the tape out.




thank you for that. I was curious to what would fit north/south. do you pack your stove full or just put a handful of splits in?
I'm also curious to know about a damper in the flue pipe. I'm not sure what the length my stainless liner  is but I have an interior chimney that's on my first floor and goes up through my second floor, attic and about 4 foot out of my roof near the peak. I would guess that I am in the 24/25 foot range.


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## JA600L (Jan 27, 2015)

clark77 said:


> thank you for that. I was curious to what would fit north/south. do you pack your stove full or just put a handful of splits in?
> I'm also curious to know about a damper in the flue pipe. I'm not sure what the length my stainless liner  is but I have an interior chimney that's on my first floor and goes up through my second floor, attic and about 4 foot out of my roof near the peak. I would guess that I am in the 24/25 foot range.



I don't pack my stove full unless it's really cold.  I am away 11 hours for work so if it is in the 20's or higher I fill it, but not packed.  When the high is under 20 I'll make more effort to fit more in. Either way I come home to a warm house. It just depends how warm you want it. My house is well insulated. I don't use a damper. Most people don't bother.


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 27, 2015)

CptJera said:


> Good input on the thread! Placing our order today.  Here's the design we chose.  Wife likes the design stuff and as someone else mentioned, the more I looked, the more it grew on me.  Since I'll be sitting nearby and staring at it a lot during our winters, may as well have something nice to look at, right?
> 
> By the way, I'm backing mine up to an existing fireplace and 20' tall (soon to be lined) chimney.  Can you give a yay or nay on including an inline damper?  Is it needed with this stove?  Thx!


Your wife has good taste - that looks super.


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## ambull01 (Jan 27, 2015)

@JA600L just read an older thread you made. Sorry if I missed it somewhere but why did you end up choosing the IS over the Progress Hybrid? Just discovered Woodstock sells two hybrid stoves so now I'm trying to compare the two. Picking a stove is hard work.


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## JA600L (Jan 27, 2015)

Price was the biggest issue.  I personally believe the Ideal is a lot more bang for the buck.  The progress looks better and has a higher btu output,  but the Ideal is more controllable, has a bigger box,  front loading,  and I believe it will burn longer.  They took the technology they learned from the Progress and improved it in the Ideal.  

I honestly think they are similar enough that you should pick what you can afford and looks good to you.


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## JA600L (Jan 27, 2015)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mo...the-wood-stove-decathlon-grand-prize-16180264

This is also a good reason to consider the Ideal Steel.


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 28, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Price was the biggest issue.  I personally believe the Ideal is a lot more bang for the buck.  The progress looks better and has a higher btu output,  but the Ideal is more controllable, has a bigger box,  front loading,  and I believe it will burn longer.  They took the technology they learned from the Progress and improved it in the Ideal.
> 
> I honestly think they are similar enough that you should pick what you can afford and looks good to you.


I have the Progress Hybrid and absolutely love it.  But I wish I had room for a second stove.  If so I would get the IS in a heart beat.  You simply can't go wrong with either one.  And the IS is a super bargain to boot.


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## JA600L (Jan 28, 2015)

Tenn Dave said:


> I have the Progress Hybrid and absolutely love it.  But I wish I had room for a second stove.  If so I would get the IS in a heart beat.  You simply can't go wrong with either one.  And the IS is a super bargain to boot.



I wish I could run them both to compare.  I'm just going by what I've seen and heard.  There is one person I know of who has both. It's interesting to compare his notes.


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## ambull01 (Jan 28, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Price was the biggest issue.  I personally believe the Ideal is a lot more bang for the buck.  The progress looks better and has a higher btu output,  but the Ideal is more controllable, has a bigger box,  front loading,  and I believe it will burn longer.  They took the technology they learned from the Progress and improved it in the Ideal.
> 
> I honestly think they are similar enough that you should pick what you can afford and looks good to you.



I actually like both of the stoves. The more I look at pictures the more the IS looks are growing on me. The whole BTU output thing kind of confuses me since it's been stated on this site and others that it doesn't mean a whole lot. 

I read that article before, must have been on Woodstocks IS homepage or something. Pretty impressive to win first place and be the cheapest. 

I read about the guy in VT I believe that was a beta tester for the IS and owned a PH on the site you sent me. Is that the dude you're talking about?


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## JA600L (Jan 28, 2015)

Probably.  The Max btu output is what I was referring to. Basically, meaning if it is -10 degrees outside and you need maximum output the PH has more full throttle reserve.  Believe me when you put the Ideal Steel on a maximum burn it will run you out of the room too.


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## ambull01 (Jan 28, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Probably.  The Max btu output is what I was referring to. Basically, meaning if it is -10 degrees outside and you need maximum output the PH has more full throttle reserve.  Believe me when you put the Ideal Steel on a maximum burn it will run you out of the room too.



Okay I've finally made up my mind. I'm going IS for my house and Englander for my future shed/workshop. Thanks for all the patience you've shown with my stupid questions.


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## JA600L (Jan 28, 2015)

Good deal.  Here's a little teaser. As you can see there is plenty of fuel left in there.  This is what I come home to everyday 11 hours after I reloaded and set.  The floor is about 4" below the opening so this guy would love to keep on going, but it will be under 10 degrees tonight so I need to burn her down and heat it up a bit.


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## ambull01 (Jan 28, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Good deal.  Here's a little teaser. As you can see there is plenty of fuel left in there.  This is what I come home to everyday 11 hours after I reloaded and set.  The floor is about 4" below the opening so this guy would love to keep on going, but it will be under 10 degrees tonight so I need to burn her down and heat it up a bit.



Man that would make me a happy camper. After 11 hours I would only find ash and a cold stove with my current insert. 

I read they placed a thermometer or at least made it an option to use one real close to the cat from the other site. Is that what I'm seeing in your pic (upper right corner)? How useful is the placement and the thermometer in general? Eventually I would like to get to the point a lot of these guys are that use fancy heat devices but right I'm now I'm totally ignorant. I need something that's really dumbed down. Spent most of my life in Hawaii so I wasn't raised around wood stoves/heating concerns.


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## rideau (Jan 28, 2015)

If you were in Hawaii this winter, you would wish you had a wood stove!

Woodstock is very conservative in their statements about BTU.  If they list BTU output for a stove, you can count on that output.  The PH will definitely put out about 11% more heat than the IS when both are asked for high output.  In MD that likely does not matter for you.  In my climate, that makes a huge difference.

Woodstock is a great company that makes a fine product, and I am sure you will be happy for many years to come.  Enjoy, and looking forward to subsequent photos of install and burns....


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## ambull01 (Jan 28, 2015)

rideau said:


> If you were in Hawaii this winter, you would wish you had a wood stove!
> 
> Woodstock is very conservative in their statements about BTU.  If they list BTU output for a stove, you can count on that output.  The PH will definitely put out about 11% more heat than the IS when both are asked for high output.  In MD that likely does not matter for you.  In my climate, that makes a huge difference.
> 
> Woodstock is a great company that makes a fine product, and I am sure you will be happy for many years to come.  Enjoy, and looking forward to subsequent photos of install and burns....



What happened this winter? Still have some family there, should ask them if they had to sit in their car and see if the heaters worked. 

Yeah, doesn't get too cold here. I'm really liking Woodstock's prices. Even the replacement cats from what I've read.


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## rideau (Jan 28, 2015)

A few blizzards, white out conditions, on the Big Island.  Night time temps on Maui in the high 40's.low 50's.  Several fairly severe storms.  I have a lot of family there.  With no heat, they are finding it cold.  Even the dogs are sleeping under blankets.  Of course, they have short haired dogs there.  Was sent a picture of Laka, the Rhodesian Ridgeback,/Australian Shepard mix, asleep on his bed, covered by a nice red plaid blanket. 

I am under the impression that this is the coldest winter HI has on record. 

As you probably know, they always low-key weather issues because of the tourist trade.  Like the VOG from the volcano.  They report it as fog.


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## begreen (Jan 28, 2015)

Wow, that's chilly for them. Seems like they have been sending their warmth up to us via the Pineapple Express.


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## clark77 (Jan 28, 2015)

last night i filled out the reservation info for the ideal steel. i figured i would have heard from Woodstock today but i didn't. anyway, just curious to know if most of you are burning north/south or east/west and why?


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## rideau (Jan 28, 2015)

Head of customer service out today, so they were probably very busy.  Likely hear tomorrow.

Wish I had  a flue for a second stove.  It would be fun to try the IS.  Love my PH. 

Wish you as many years of pleasure as I have had with my Woodstocks.


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## clark77 (Jan 28, 2015)

i guess you called and spoke with them today?


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## rideau (Jan 29, 2015)

Yes.


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 29, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Good deal.  Here's a little teaser. As you can see there is plenty of fuel left in there.  This is what I come home to everyday 11 hours after I reloaded and set.  The floor is about 4" below the opening so this guy would love to keep on going, but it will be under 10 degrees tonight so I need to burn her down and heat it up a bit.



I'm considering re-doing my heating setup. Besides the original woodstove in the house I've bought 2 new wood stoves, and trying out a pellet stove this winter too. The wood stoves are both insufficient at heating my house for both the coldest days and also for the duration of my workday. This hasn't really been an issue since my wife kept the stoves going when I was at work. But we are ending our marriage and literally days from being on my own with the stove. I'm really getting nervous about the woodburning situation and thinking a need some bigger and longer burning stoves.

I'm thinking about either a BK or IS/PH. I don't really care for the looks of BK or the IS, but IS definitely has the bang for the buck. But I'm still concerned that only a BK will give me the run time I need. Your 11hr pics are probably a little better than what I have now with either my Rockland or Shelburne, but any chance I can get a 14-15 hr burn out of an IS? And reliably, like every day. I could go without much heat the last couple hours, but I want a good hot coal bed. When I'm on nights and get home at 7am I want to load and go to bed, not fiddle with starting a stove from paper and kindling. So curious if there is any chance the IS (or PH) could be considered, or should I just scratch it off the list?


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

OhioBurner© said:


> I'm considering re-doing my heating setup. Besides the original woodstove in the house I've bought 2 new wood stoves, and trying out a pellet stove this winter too. The wood stoves are both insufficient at heating my house for both the coldest days and also for the duration of my workday. This hasn't really been an issue since my wife kept the stoves going when I was at work. But we are ending our marriage and literally days from being on my own with the stove. I'm really getting nervous about the woodburning situation and thinking a need some bigger and longer burning stoves.
> 
> I'm thinking about either a BK or IS/PH. I don't really care for the looks of BK or the IS, but IS definitely has the bang for the buck. But I'm still concerned that only a BK will give me the run time I need. Your 11hr pics are probably a little better than what I have now with either my Rockland or Shelburne, but any chance I can get a 14-15 hr burn out of an IS? And reliably, like every day. I could go without much heat the last couple hours, but I want a good hot coal bed. When I'm on nights and get home at 7am I want to load and go to bed, not fiddle with starting a stove from paper and kindling. So curious if there is any chance the IS (or PH) could be considered, or should I just scratch it off the list?


On a load of 4 or 5 splits of good dry oak and hickory my PH will always have a coal bed capable of reloading on after 14 - 15 hours.  To date I have tested it out to 16 hours with no problem.  The stove temp will be under 200* but there will be coals for reloading.  The IS will probably be capable of going even longer.  However, I usually reload after 11 - 12 hours because that fits into my schedule better.


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## JA600L (Jan 29, 2015)

Tenn Dave said it well.  It will go a long time before it burns the coals down.  If you want 24 hours of usable heat that's a stretch but I believe it's possible.  If I loaded this thing full to the gills with good dry hardwood and gently closed the air the whole way I'm  not sure what it would do.  I'll find out this spring.  14-16 hours is no problem with quality firewood. 

One aspect that a lot of people forget is that this stove does have an automatic air feed to the cat. Meaning it can compensate for temperature swings.  It is a bimettalic strip. They have been known to flutter on start up, but Woodstock quickly addressed it and sent out a new valve.  Obviously this is not a temperature control thermostat like Blaze King,  but it does aid in the stoves performance.


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## JA600L (Jan 29, 2015)

Here is a picture of the new valve they sent me.  I have not heard the flutter once since November so I hadn't bothered installing it yet. I'm positive any new stoves already have the upgrade.  I was one of the early batches.


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Tenn Dave said it well.  It will go a long time before it burns the coals down.  If you want 24 hours of usable heat that's a stretch but I believe it's possible.  If I loaded this thing full to the gills with good dry hardwood and gently closed the air the whole way I'm  not sure what it would do.  I'll find out this spring.  14-16 hours is no problem with quality firewood.
> 
> One aspect that a lot of people forget is that this stove does have an automatic air feed to the cat. Meaning it can compensate for temperature swings.  It is a bimettalic strip. They have been known to flutter on start up, but Woodstock quickly addressed it and sent out a new valve.  Obviously this is not a temperature control thermostat like Blaze King,  but it does aid in the stoves performance.


I believe I read on the other site about one of the IS beta testers doing a test burn of pallet oak with a full firebox and getting 24+ hours.


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## JA600L (Jan 29, 2015)

Tenn Dave said:


> I believe I read on the other site about one of the IS beta testers doing a test burn of pallet oak with a full firebox and getting 24+ hours.


Does the PH have tertiary air?


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

rquote="JA600L, post: 1884758, member: 30540"]Does the PH have tertiary air?[/quote]

Not sure how to answer that, but let me tell you my experience.  Once I engage the cat (300*) and the wood has a good char on it, I am able to completely turn the air control lever to the off position.  The firebox will slowly go dark with only the low glow of coals at the bottom and stove top temps will continue to rise.  After a while, the stove fire will come back with a mostly blue flame and will burn like that for hours.  Beautiful to watch and glass stays reasonably clean.  As a matter of fact, today is the first time in 2 years that I have cleaned the glass..(should have done it sooner).


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

rideau said:


> A few blizzards, white out conditions, on the Big Island.  Night time temps on Maui in the high 40's.low 50's.  Several fairly severe storms.  I have a lot of family there.  With no heat, they are finding it cold.  Even the dogs are sleeping under blankets.  Of course, they have short haired dogs there.  Was sent a picture of Laka, the Rhodesian Ridgeback,/Australian Shepard mix, asleep on his bed, covered by a nice red plaid blanket.
> 
> I am under the impression that this is the coldest winter HI has on record.
> 
> As you probably know, they always low-key weather issues because of the tourist trade.  Like the VOG from the volcano.  They report it as fog.



That would be miserable. Good thing I don't live there anymore. Don't think I ever owned a sweater or jacket.


----------



## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

I have a question about the Woodstock company. On another site people are mentioning how long BK has been in business vs Woodstock. Sounds like Woodstock is a much smaller company. They also mentioned the peace of mind knowing BK will be in business for a long time to come so parts/customer service will not be an issue. What do you guys think about the Woodstock company? Any concerns with it being so small/less established?


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## rdust (Jan 29, 2015)

How deep below the door is the firebox on the IS?


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## rdust (Jan 29, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> I have a question about the Woodstock company. On another site people are mentioning how long BK has been in business vs Woodstock. Sounds like Woodstock is a much smaller company. They also mentioned the peace of mind knowing BK will be in business for a long time to come so parts/customer service will not be an issue. What do you guys think about the Woodstock company? Any concerns with it being so small/less established?



Woodstock isn't going anywhere, they're here to stay.  I wouldn't waste another thought on it!


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2015)

Woodstock has been around for many years. Tom is a legend in the industry. As a small company they have adapted quickly with new designs that will ensure they make it through the next level of EPA standards. Neither BK or Woodstock are large companies when compared to the giants like Travis and Jotul. That could be an asset as they are perhaps more adaptable? As long as they continue to produce quality products with good customer service they should do well long into the future.


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

Sounds great, thanks guys. Now I have another question lol. The IS just won some fancy prize and I'm definitely getting it over a BK. Only issue is, why not make it achieve the same type of insane burn time of a BK? I would think as a hybrid it would be extremely efficient so why can't it get 40 hour burn times? I've read one of the main things that enable a BK stove to achieve a ridiculous burn time is the great air control. I know the full sized BK unit is larger so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2015)

BK uses special magic Sasquatch sauce. It gets those long burn times on softwood no less.


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> BK uses special magic Sasquatch sauce. It gets those long burn times on softwood no less.



So that's the secret? I need some of that sauce to try in my insert.


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2015)

It comes from deep in the Blue Mountains.


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## rdust (Jan 29, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> I know the full sized BK unit is larger IS so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?



The IS is bigger than the Princess but smaller than the King.  BK advertises the Princess at 30 hours, I never shoot for that but  24 hour shoulder season burns are easily achieved.  

Not every manufacture needs or wants to produce a really low burning stove.  I wouldn't get too hung up on that.  Any reports I've read have the IS sounding like a great stove.  Any stove that can burn 12 hours when it's zero outside and keep you warm is a winner.


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> It comes from deep in the Blue Mountains.



The Blue Ridge Mountains? I think that's a sheepsquatch.


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## begreen (Jan 29, 2015)

No, the Blue Mtns of Oregon. Though it looks like Clackamas county is Sasquatch territory. That would be in the Cascades. 
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=or


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Sounds great, thanks guys. Now I have another question lol. The IS just won some fancy prize and I'm definitely getting it over a BK. Only issue is, why not make it achieve the same type of insane burn time of a BK? I would think as a hybrid it would be extremely efficient so why can't it get 40 hour burn times? I've read one of the main things that enable a BK stove to achieve a ridiculous burn time is the great air control. I know the full sized BK unit is larger so maybe that's the only thing holding the IS back?


I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it.  But it appears that is not what they want to do.  The simple fact is that if 2 stoves have an equal efficiency rating/load size, and one burns longer then the other, it is giving off less btu's.  Long burn times can be very beneficial in warmer climates with prolonged shoulder seasons or in very well insulated homes with lower heat requirements.  But the trade off is no fire view and less heat per hour on these lower settings.  When I raised the burn time question with Woodstock before I purchased my stove, they said they were looking for the *best balance* for performance over the largest range of variables.  But the great thing is that there are enough different stove manufacturers out there that you should be able to find something that meets most of your needs and wants.


----------



## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> No, the Blue Mtns of Oregon. Though it looks like Clackamas county is Sasquatch territory. That would be in the Cascades.
> http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=or



LOL. Never knew they had sites dedicated to Bigfoot sightings. Oh man that just made my day.


----------



## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

Tenn Dave said:


> I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it.  But it appears that is not what they want to do.  The simple fact is that if 2 stoves have an equal efficiency rating/load size, and one burns longer then the other, it is giving off less btu's.  Long burn times can be very beneficial in warmer climates with prolonged shoulder seasons or in very well insulated homes with lower heat requirements.  But the trade off is no fire view and less heat per hour on these lower settings.  When I raised the burn time question with Woodstock before I purchased my stove, they said they were looking for the best balance for performance over the largest range of variables.  But the great thing is that there are enough different stove manufacturers out there that you should be able to find something that meets most of your needs and wants.



Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site. 

That makes sense. Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's. I need to investigate how true posts/claims are that say they've achieved insane burn times during really cold weather. That's starting to seem like BS now. 

I like the fact a BK owner, @rdust , is on here speaking highly of the IS. The other site I frequent is filled with BK people turning their nose up other stoves.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 29, 2015)

You can. Drag the cursor over the text in a post that you want to quote and then on the grey "Quote Me" button that pops up. That puts it in your reply window. Then do the same thing again to the rest of the stuff from other posts ya want to quote.



Tenn Dave said:


> I am sure other stove companies could easily reverse engineer a BK stove and duplicate it.





ambull01 said:


> LOL. Never knew they had sites dedicated to Bigfoot sightings. Oh man that just made my day.





ambull01 said:


> Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's.



The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy).  Basically it comes down to two factors:
First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
The second is where a bunch of variables come in...How efficient is the stove and how fast is it returning the BTUS (cranking or low and slow).  BK and their alien technology does a very fine job of the slow and low as well as returning high efficiency numbers.  Woodstock also does a fine job of low and slow, albeit maybe a step behind BK in this arena, and they are also known for high efficiency numbers.  
With all that said, not everybody is looking for slow and low.  At any point in time that I call "winter" a 250-300F stove top means my house is getting cold.  THAT is one reason that not every MFG is turning down the path of BK and Woodstock.  They have their place, but that is not "every" place.  Taking a BK to 600F stovetop for the majority of its heating life somewhat negates the need for "alien technology and Sasquatch sauce".


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

Jags said:


> The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy).  Basically it comes down to two factors:
> First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
> Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
> The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
> ...


If the majority of future stove buyers were to demand 24+ hour low and slow burn times, you can bet all the other stove manufacturers would jump on the bandwagon.  However, that has not been the case.  But if you do need those super long burn times, thankfully we have a manufacturer or 2 who can satisfy that need.


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> You can. Drag the cursor over the text in a post that you want to quote and then on the grey "Quote Me" button that pops up. That puts it in your reply window. Then do the same thing again to the rest of the stuff from other posts ya want to quote.



Awesome!! lol, thanks. 



Jags said:


> The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy). Basically it comes down to two factors:
> First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
> Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat.
> The first is pretty easy to measure simply by weight (assuming the fuel is at a given MC %).
> ...



Thank you for that nice simple explanation. Totally get it now.


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## Tenn Dave (Jan 29, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Wish there was an option to quote multiple posts on this site.
> 
> That makes sense. Just couldn't understand why other companies refuse to make a stove with prolonged burn times since that's one the most talked/raved about feature of BK's. I need to investigate how true posts/claims are that say they've achieved insane burn times during really cold weather. That's starting to seem like BS now.
> 
> I like the fact a BK owner, @rdust , is on here speaking highly of the IS. The other site I frequent is filled with BK people turning their nose up other stoves.


I think we all have our favorite stove, but you would be doing a disservice to yourself if you do not have an open mind and the ability to appreciate the new technology and stove models which come out every year from different manufacturers.  I just hope the industry keeps improving regardless from which manufacturer the improvements come.  If and when I ever buy another stove, I will start out with a clean slate in evaluating all available options.


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## JA600L (Jan 29, 2015)

Ambull01, what would you like to do with this stove? If you are heating a large uninsulated area low and slow won't cut it anyway.  I'm not trying to pursued you toward the IS. Take a look at Blaze King and maybe that will end up being what you want.  The one thing you need to remember is that everybody thinks you should but their stove.  

You also need to remember that some people exaggerate how great their stove is as well.  A Blaze King might heat somebody else's area great for 30 hours but you might end up with a cold house trying it. 

  I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy.  That will be the real determining factor.


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## ambull01 (Jan 29, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Ambull01, what would you like to do with this stove? If you are heating a large uninsulated area low and slow won't cut it anyway.  I'm not trying to pursued you toward the IS. Take a look at Blaze King and maybe that will end up being what you want.  The one thing you need to remember is that everybody thinks you should but their stove.
> 
> You also need to remember that some people exaggerate how great their stove is as well.  A Blaze King might heat somebody else's area great for 30 hours but you might end up with a cold house trying it.
> 
> I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy.  That will be the real determining factor.



I would like to stuff it full of wood and burn it. I've looked at the BK a bit, looks fugly to me. There's a couple models that don't seem that bad though. I like to go against the grain though so the IS really appeals to me in that respect. 

Was just wondering how such an advanced stove like the IS couldn't compete against the older BK stoves. Now I know. Sorry, I know I've been clogging your thread with a ton of questions and a lot of them were really general type stuff.


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 30, 2015)

Jags said:


> The reality is that you cannot create heat (energy).  Basically it comes down to two factors:
> First is the fuel load - how many BTU can a stove actually contain.
> Second is how a given stove hands those btus back to you and how efficient the stove is in the conversion from wood to heat


Yeah for stoves of similar efficiency and size a longer burn means a less btu output per hour. But don't forget the huge size of the King does allow it to burn the length of an IS/PH or longer and still deliver _more_ BTU.

I think for my situation a King would function the best (not counting looks). However the 8" flue would make it too difficult to install with existing interior masonry chimneys with 6" venting already in place. So taking the big >4cuft King out of the equation, I don't think the Princess or Ashford offer much advantage _if_ I can get 14hr burns from an IS or PH to cover my workday where I am gone. I'm not worried about 30 hr burns or anything, on my off days I don't mind loading my Rockland up 3 or 4 times a day. I'm just wanting something to cover my typical workday.

I just have to make a decision if I want to keep the free standing pellet stove. If I do, then a new stove might be a much harder task since my other stove is an insert in a large brick fireplace, and the hearth couldn't accommodate a stove without some major work, and it would stick way out in the room.



JA600L said:


> I would spend more money insulating your house then worrying about what stove you buy. That will be the real determining factor.


Well for me I can't take insulation with me to my next home but I could probably take the stove! Plus only so much insulation you can add in some situations. I'm trying to figure out what the heck to do with my cape cod style upper floor where the ceiling of the bedrooms is mounted to the roof trusses and only 4" of space between (and no insulation currently).


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## ambull01 (Jan 30, 2015)

OhioBurner© said:


> Yeah for stoves of similar efficiency and size a longer burn means a less btu output per hour. But don't forget the huge size of the King does allow it to burn the length of an IS/PH or longer and still deliver _more_ BTU.
> 
> I think for my situation a King would function the best (not counting looks). However the 8" flue would make it too difficult to install with existing interior masonry chimneys with 6" venting already in place. So taking the big >4cuft King out of the equation, I don't think the Princess or Ashford offer much advantage _if_ I can get 14hr burns from an IS or PH to cover my workday where I am gone. I'm not worried about 30 hr burns or anything, on my off days I don't mind loading my Rockland up 3 or 4 times a day. I'm just wanting something to cover my typical workday.
> 
> ...



Check out a thread made by a member named BrianK on Arborist site.com. He made a real detailed thread about achieving a 24 hour burn with out side temps in the high to mid teens. Supposedly he lives in a real drafty house so that's great news for me. Not sure how your temps compare to his though. Believe he's in PA.


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## begreen (Jan 30, 2015)

Take fanboy posts with a grain of salt. Some proud owners tend to enhance a bit.


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## Tectop (Jan 30, 2015)

I am curious if you don't mind me asking. How do you get the heat to the upstairs level from a wood stove in the basement? Are you leaving the door to the stairs open to let heat rise? Are you using fans to move the air around or are you hooking into existing duct work. Reason I'm asking is that I am very interested in the method your using the achieve that much warmth up-stairs as I would like to do the same. I have been reluctant to put a wood stove in my basement of fear of not getting the results up stairs like I would like. I to leave in a ranch style house.

Thanks in Advance,


----------



## rdust (Jan 30, 2015)

Tectop said:


> I have been reluctant to put a wood stove in my basement of fear of not getting the results up stairs like I would like. I to leave in a ranch style house.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,



Unless the basement is insulated put the stove where you spend your time.  If you spend your time on the main level that's where I would install the stove.  Some people have been successfully with basement installs, more often than not people don't have the best luck.  

One of my neighbors heats from the basement with good luck, they have an open staircase leading to the basement in the middle of the house and the basement is insulated.  The stove is pretty close to the bottom of the stairs so the heat travels well right up the stairs and into the family room/kitchen area.


----------



## osagebow (Jan 30, 2015)

rdust said:


> Unless the basement is insulated put the stove where you spend your time.  If you spend your time on the main level that's where I would install the stove.  Some people have been successfully with basement installs, more often than not people don't have the best luck.
> 
> One of my neighbors heats from the basement with good luck, they have an open staircase leading to the basement in the middle of the house and the basement is insulated.  The stove is pretty close to the bottom of the stairs so the heat travels well right up the stairs and into the family room/kitchen area.



That's similar to our setup except our stove room is small, helping to force the heat up the stairwell. Bedrooms are small and somewhat above this room, also. We are only heating about 1200 sf total.

 Tectop, Will the stove be directly under your living /and or bedrooms? How close to the stairs?


----------



## JA600L (Jan 31, 2015)

Tectop said:


> I am curious if you don't mind me asking. How do you get the heat to the upstairs level from a wood stove in the basement? Are you leaving the door to the stairs open to let heat rise? Are you using fans to move the air around or are you hooking into existing duct work. Reason I'm asking is that I am very interested in the method your using the achieve that much warmth up-stairs as I would like to do the same. I have been reluctant to put a wood stove in my basement of fear of not getting the results up stairs like I would like. I to leave in a ranch style house.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,



             OK. So half of my upstairs is above the garage.  This was a huge problem because my bedrooms were always freezing cold. So I cut a section of drywall out of the garage ceiling and found a single layer of fiberglass which was not tight against the upstairs floor.  I had a company come in and blow 26 bags of cellulose into the joist bays. Huge difference. 
        I got some new windows.  I'm about half way done with that.

       Then I checked into the attic.  It only had r 13 fiberglass. I pulled up the insulation around all the top walls and air sealed the gaps with spray foam.  I'm hoping this stops mice as well.  I built a 10" higher floor in the center with a cat walk for the air handler.  Blew in 10" of new fiberglass covering the air ducts as well.  

      Then,  I took all the old fiberglass Batts out of the rim joists in the basement.  I caulked all of the joints and installed r 23 roxul comfort batts. I air sealed any foundation gaps, then covered the block walls with owens corning insul - pink foam board.  This attached with furring strips.  You attach the drywall to the strips.  I installed a stainless steel liner and built a hearth for the new stove.  I did this all in the summer to early fall.  It was a lot of work especially working in the 120 degree attic,  but I was determined! 

             The only thing left to do would be to remove the aluminum  siding and insulate the exterior walls.  I don't want to even think about doing that...

       The result.... Huge improvement. Not only in the winter,  the house stays much cooler in the summer.  I leave the door open to the staircase and the convective loop does its thing.


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## osagebow (Jan 31, 2015)

Can you ballpark a total cost for the insulation upgrade JA?


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## CptJera (Jan 31, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> I've read one of the main things that enable a BK stove to achieve a ridiculous burn time is the great air control.





begreen said:


> BK uses special magic Sasquatch sauce. It gets those long burn times on softwood no less.





ambull01 said:


> So that's the secret? I need some of that sauce to try in my insert.





begreen said:


> It comes from deep in the Blue Mountains.





ambull01 said:


> The Blue Ridge Mountains? I think that's a sheepsquatch.





begreen said:


> No, the Blue Mtns of Oregon. Though it looks like Clackamas county is Sasquatch territory. That would be in the Cascades.



Oh, THAT sauce.  Know it well.  "Blue Juice"  My 1st cuz makes it.  (I'm originally from Coos County)  BTW, he's extremely hairy, scratches and grunts a lot. Goes by the handle of "Squatch".  Tell him, "uh huh" if you see him.  He'll know what you mean.


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## CptJera (Jan 31, 2015)

By the way, folks.  Place my order for the new IS Thursday.  Mike from Woodstock touched base with me personally.  Great folks so far!  May even get lucky with an expedited order if we're lucky and production holds.  Meanwhile, the old 'gates of hell' in the limestone chimney is cleaned up of all the stage 3 creo, should have new pre-insulated Easy-Flex with all the attachments by late next week, Monday after at the latest.  Got a "Nifty Lift" reserved for next Saturday AM to do the install myself and have promised the Bro-in-law a steak dinner for his time and assistance.  May even share some of my "Blue Juice" with him if he doesn't fall asleep on his back lying in the fireplace.    Now, if I can just get this monster 40" x 60' tall Mulberry to cooperate, I'm picking in high cotton!


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## rideau (Jan 31, 2015)

Am I seeing the picture of that tree correctly?????

Holy cow!


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## CptJera (Jan 31, 2015)

rideau said:


> Am I seeing the picture of that tree correctly?????
> 
> Holy cow!


Yessir.  And that's real close to my own response when it spun instead of leaned.  You're about half way there.


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## rideau (Jan 31, 2015)

Good luck, and be safe.  Let us know how it goes, and how you manage it.


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## CptJera (Jan 31, 2015)

Can do!


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## JA600L (Jan 31, 2015)

osagebow said:


> Can you ballpark a total cost for the insulation upgrade JA?



Attic insulation $1100 - $500 PPL rebate =$600 + 10" joists, screws, my own labor
Garage ceiling insulation = $600 plus 5/8" drywall repair. 
Insul -pink garage insulation ran me a couple hundred dollars, furring strips,  screws,  drywall, putty  I installed all that myself.  And did all drywalling.
I got one bag of the roxul comfort batts for about $40-50.
I probably used 20 cans of spray foam at about $5 a can.


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## CptJera (Jan 31, 2015)

OhioBurner© said:


> I'm trying to figure out what the heck to do with my cape cod style upper floor where the ceiling of the bedrooms is mounted to the roof trusses and only 4" of space between (and no insulation currently).


I'd have to say if it were mine, off with the ceiling, put 4" thick closed cell styro panels between the rafters, spray foam up any gaps -there will be gaps unless you cut them EXACTLY to size and use a floor jack to push them up into place!-, add a vapor barrier over all that and replace the ceiling.  No attic space, no need for any air flow under the roof.  We did exactly this to a log cabin's loft expansion where we raised the roof 4'.  Works like a champ.


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## OhioBurner© (Feb 1, 2015)

CptJera said:


> I'd have to say if it were mine, off with the ceiling, put 4" thick closed cell styro panels between the rafters, spray foam up any gaps -there will be gaps unless you cut them EXACTLY to size and use a floor jack to push them up into place!-, add a vapor barrier over all that and replace the ceiling.  No attic space, no need for any air flow under the roof.  We did exactly this to a log cabin's loft expansion where we raised the roof 4'.  Works like a champ.


That's probably the best way to do it. I really didn't want to tear down the ceiling/walls they are good old plaster walls that are in fine shape. Though I could use some drywall experience, never done much more than patches before. There is a small crawl attic along the sides though. Currently zero ventilation I was hoping to put vents in the one gable end then add ridge vents.

I was browsing through some of the IS designs, and while some I've seen I didn't care for I've found lots I like. Some look better I think if they are the same color as the stove so they don't stand out as much. 

Unfortunately I've decided to give this pellet stove a second chance and ordered some 4" duravent to line my masonry chimney. We'll see how it works then. My other stove, is an insert that I wouldn't mind swapping for a bigger stove but I fear the hearth will take more to modify than I'm willing. I may take some pics and entertain ideas and costs on a new thread though. If I was building a new home or replacing a smoke dragon I think an IS would be at the top of the list.


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## CptJera (Feb 1, 2015)

rideau said:


> Good luck, and be safe.  Let us know how it goes, and how you manage it.


Got the beast on the ground.  Had to 'domino' two buckeyes where an upper mulberry limb had hung and balanced the entire act.  Also swallowed my pride -I'm old, not stupid- and called on a neighbor with much more experience in felling trees.  Wise move, that.  He spotted a nest of "widow-makers" overhead and had me stand off about 40 yards while he cut the buckeyes.  About 3/4 way through they started leaning, he dropped the saw and moved much faster than I thought possible.  And the beast came a'tumbling down. Happy ending!  Best part?  The mulberry MC % is only 5%.  This is very good wood and LOTS of it!


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## JA600L (Feb 3, 2015)

To continue on with my update,  I have to include some negative things I have found.  


      The andirons warp.  The plate that runs horizontal bends and you are not able to flip the andirons front.  This can easily be pulled out and straightened but it is a minor inconvenience. 

    The radiator plate above the cat turns bright red and warps. This also can be pulled out and straightened,  but I think it is weakened and will do it again.  

Otherwise,  it is still burning great. I have not found any cracks or performance issues. I want to be transparent about the good and bad and not just tell you what you want to hear.  I believe this stove is going to be a great performer,  they just have a few bugs to work out.


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## rideau (Feb 3, 2015)

JA600L:  Hope and expect you have notified Woodstock about those issues.  They are both interested in learning about and proactive about remedying any issues with their stoves.


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## osagebow (Feb 3, 2015)

Indeed. Tell them ASAP. I have been cranking mine a bit more and have not had those issues. Bad batch of steel maybe?


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## ambull01 (Feb 3, 2015)

If I remember right the soapstone is attached to the design plate thingy. If not, can you place soapstone on the stove after buying the base model?


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 3, 2015)

JA600L said:


> To continue on with my update,  I have to include some negative things I have found.
> 
> 
> The andirons warp.  The plate that runs horizontal bends and you are not able to flip the andirons front.  This can easily be pulled out and straightened but it is a minor inconvenience.
> ...


Honest feedback helps us all.  I'm sure Woodstock will be making tweaks just like they did on the PH as real world field results come in.


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## Jo191145 (Feb 4, 2015)

Good review JA600L.
As others have already stated contact Woodstock ASAP. I know they want to hear and I'm sure they'll send you out replacement parts.
My cousin started this season with an IS. Within a week of burning the bypass lever jammed. He forced the issue and broke something inside. Being a mechanic he surmised it was too tight tolerances on some hole that didn't allow for paint thickness and heat expansion. He fixed it himself and called Woodstock to let them know. Even though it was fixed they sent him out all the parts anyway. What really impressed him with their customer service is they also sent a reamer so he could adjust the fit to his liking.
Sending parts is nice. Buying specialty tools to keep your customers happy is exemplary.
The stove may need tweaking but you gotta give them an A + on customer service.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 4, 2015)

Jo191145 said:


> Good review JA600L.
> As others have already stated contact Woodstock ASAP. I know they want to hear and I'm sure they'll send you out replacement parts.
> My cousin started this season with an IS. Within a week of burning the bypass lever jammed. He forced the issue and broke something inside. Being a mechanic he surmised it was too tight tolerances on some hole that didn't allow for paint thickness and heat expansion. He fixed it himself and called Woodstock to let them know. Even though it was fixed they sent him out all the parts anyway. What really impressed him with their customer service is they also sent a reamer so he could adjust the fit to his liking.
> Sending parts is nice. Buying specialty tools to keep your customers happy is exemplary.
> The stove may need tweaking but you gotta give them an A + on customer service.


Once you own a Woodstock, you become part of the Woodstock family and you will always have a safety net of support and guidance to fall back on.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 4, 2015)

Family . . .cult . . .  

I kid of course . . . the only other stove that has ever really caught my eye and made me seriously consider swapping out my stove was the Woodstock PH . . . I still think it's their best looking stove.


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## kuhner (Feb 4, 2015)

I have been burning my Ideal Steel since beginning of December this year.   I've had it up to 575 - 600 degrees on the flue pipe thermometer, have not seen any warping as described earlier.  
I did not order the andirons on mine and really see no benefit other than a decorative accent, I think they would get in the way of loading the stove.

My smoke flap suffered some damage and I really think they over complicated it by making it pop up automatically when you close the door, the little tab is also a pain when you load wood. I bent my smoke flap about two weks ago, and just took it out, my stove before I took them out also, its a great way to get your arm or hand burned.  

I do wish the ash fender was made a little heavier, not a big deal, its just is a little flimsy if you put your hand or a piece of wood on it while you are loading, nothing functional just percieved feel.
It has taken some time to get acustomed to my first hybrid stove,  takes time to get a routine down for loading and engaging the cat.  I wish there was some type of temperature alarm you could set so you know when the stove comes up to temperature to engage the cat.  My stove is downstairs and I am getting to old to keep running down the stairs, sometimes it takes 10 minutes other times much longer. 
I get by with loading my stove twice a day for my house, if the daytime temps do not get out of the teens, I may have to throw a couple pieces on when I get home from work to keep the stove top temps in the 200 range till loaded again, but my house is always in the 70-73 range. We have had some below zero temps this year in my part of Ohio.

greg
.


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## ambull01 (Feb 4, 2015)

Tenn Dave said:


> Once you own a Woodstock, you become part of the Woodstock family and you will always have a safety net of support and guidance to fall back on.



Okay, fess up. You work for them right?


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 4, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Okay, fess up. You work for them right?


Too old to work...just one of the many satisfied customers.    But they do make me feel like family.


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## Jags (Feb 4, 2015)

With all due respect to Woodstock as a class act and one of the top performers in customer support and innovation:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/faq/8-can-i-complain-and-or-praise-pump-my-particular-stove.13/

What we don't want to do is become lopsided.  The site is designed to help woodburners (or prospective woodburners) irrelevant of stove brand.


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## Jags (Feb 4, 2015)

There is good info in this thread
Now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Ideal Steel Update...


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## JA600L (Feb 4, 2015)

Please know that I am still very satisfied with this stove.  Anything that warped can be removed, replaced,  or straightened. I will be straightening everything for now.  The last thing I want to do is take them away from their backlogged production when my stove is fully functional.  Once the burning season is over I will catch up with them on what is still an issue. 

    I just got home from work.  It's been 12 hours since I looked at the stove.  I loaded it 3/4 full with medium ash splits this morning.  
Temps were in the low 40s today and there is plenty of charcoal logs still in there so I'm just going to turn the air up a bit and leave it alone. I might even wait till I load it for the night.


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## alforit (Feb 4, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Please know that I am still very satisfied with this stove.  Anything that warped can be removed, replaced,  or straightened. I will be straightening everything for now.  The last thing I want to do is take them away from their backlogged production when my stove is fully functional.  Once the burning season is over I will catch up with them on what is still an issue.
> 
> I just got home from work.  It's been 12 hours since I looked at the stove.  I loaded it 3/4 full with medium ash splits this morning.
> Temps were in the low 40s today and there is plenty of charcoal logs still in there so I'm just going to turn the air up a bit and leave it alone. I might even wait till I load it for the night.




Don't worry about reporting the bad.......Both sides are needed with transparency to get the full picture. Its nice to see that you are being fully truthful.

Gotta love that Ash...  Great burning wood.


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## JA600L (Feb 4, 2015)

Honestly, this is one of those stoves where if you just leave it alone it will continue to release heat for a long time.  My instinct is to mess with it. I want to open the door and rake things or whatever. 
   After you open the door the temperatures start falling.  If you leave it alone it will go much longer then you would think. 
    I'm expecting to get 24 hour burns in the spring shoulder season.  With good hard wood it really should be fine.  Even softwood would probably go a long time.  Towards the end of the coaling it won't make a lot of heat but I think my house is insulated enough to maintain it. 
      As I've mentioned before, I have run this stove with the air fully closed with out smoke.  It's always been too cold to try it for long, but with 40 degree temps and a load of dry oak I bet it would go for a very long time. The problem is nobody wants to burn their best woods for shoulder season.


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## alforit (Feb 4, 2015)

JA600L said:


> Honestly, this is one of those stoves where if you just leave it alone it will continue to release heat for a long time.  My instinct is to mess with it. I want to open the door and rake things or whatever.
> After you open the door the temperatures start falling.  If you leave it alone it will go much longer then you would think.
> I'm expecting to get 24 hour burns in the spring shoulder season.  With good hard wood it really should be fine.  Even softwood would probably go a long time.  Towards the end of the coaling it won't make a lot of heat but I think my house is insulated enough to maintain it.
> As I've mentioned before, I have run this stove with the air fully closed with out smoke.  It's always been too cold to try it for long, but with 40 degree temps and a load of dry oak I bet it would go for a very long time. The problem is nobody wants to burn their best woods for shoulder season.




That's awesome ....Would be intrigued to know if you can get those 24 hour burns in the shoulder sesason. I have found that the douglas fir gives me the longest burns in my BK Ashford.  Don't know why because its a softwood.  And I have burned oak and ash and madrone in it.


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## ambull01 (Feb 4, 2015)

alforit said:


> That's awesome ....Would be intrigued to know if you can get those 24 hour burns in the shoulder sesason. I have found that the douglas fir gives me the longest burns in my BK Ashford.  Don't know why because its a softwood.  And I have burned oak and ash and madrone in it.



You think it's because the douglas fir is a fast, hot burner so it gets the cat up to the ideal temp therefore restricting air flow? Let me know if I need to stop my SWAGs

If they could only Frankenstein the IS and slap on BKs automatic thermometer controlled thingy their stove would be the uncontested champ.


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## alforit (Feb 4, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> If they could only Frankenstein the IS and slap on BKs automatic thermometer controlled thingy their stove would be the uncontested champ



From the look of things I think the Bi metallic coil could be on the horizon for Woodstock stoves.



ambull01 said:


> You think it's because the douglas fir is a fast, hot burner so it gets the cat up to the ideal temp therefore restricting air flow?



I have no idea. Could be .  When it comes to these cat stove there are so many changing variables in motion its hard to get a sure reference point sometimes.


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## begreen (Feb 4, 2015)

My simple stove likes doug fir too. But when I want extra heat and long burn times, locust is the champ. Madrona is pretty good too.


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## ambull01 (Feb 4, 2015)

alforit said:


> From the look of things I think the Bi metallic coil could be on the horizon for Woodstock stoves.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea. Could be .  When it comes to these cat stove there are so many changing variables in motion its hard to get a sure reference point sometimes.



Oh, you're right. That's what @JA600L meant when he mentioned that on the soon to be released new Woodstock stove thread. I had no idea what he was talking about. Sadly the new stove will be smaller than the IS though. My dream almost came true.


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## JA600L (Feb 5, 2015)

I don't think I want that bimettalic coil. This stove does perfectly fine without it.  Infact, in cold weather I think it performs better without it.  I'm sure if it was the best way to go Woodstock would have put it on.

I'm like others who when temps get high enough my heat pump will run for next to nothing.  Why waste valuable firewood?  

My heat pump has not kicked on once all winter. I leave it set at 65. Even when I am away from the stove 12 hours.


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## ambull01 (Feb 5, 2015)

Anyone know what the warranty is for Woodstock stoves? Tried to find it on their website but found nothing. I do have one gripe about Woodstock so far, their website. It just doesn't have the look of a company site, more like a second party that sells the model.


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## begreen (Feb 5, 2015)

JA600L said:


> I don't think I want that bimettalic coil. This stove does perfectly fine without it.  Infact, in cold weather I think it performs better without it.  I'm sure if it was the best way to go Woodstock would have put it on.



The PH has a bimetallic damper. My guess this will be a refinement of that concept in a steel box.


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## Elbinwyp (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> ne know what the warranty is for Woodstock stoves? Tried to find it on their website but found nothing. I do have one gripe about Woodstock so far, their website. It just doesn't have the look of a company site, more like a second party that sells the model.


I know they have a 6 month buy back guarantee if you are unsatisfied and I know that are great about sending replacement parts if there are issues for their newer stoves. 



alforit said:


> Would be intrigued to know if you can get those 24 hour burns in the shoulder sesason


I installed the IS in August. During shoulder season I was burning some punky ash and was loading every 24 hours with plenty of coals. I pushed that to ~30 hours a few times with plenty of coals to start the next load.


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## ambull01 (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> I know they have a 6 month buy back guarantee if you are unsatisfied and I know that are great about sending replacement parts if there are issues for their newer stoves.
> 
> 
> I installed the IS in August. During shoulder season I was burning some punky ash and was loading every 24 hours with plenty of coals. I pushed that to ~30 hours a few times with plenty of coals to start the next load.



So when you bought your stove, nothing in writing was sent with it detailing the warranty policy besides the 6 month buy back?


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## Elbinwyp (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> So when you bought your stove, nothing in writing was sent with it detailing the warranty policy besides the 6 month buy back?


That is correct. With that being said, I have heard plenty of stories about Woodstock standing behind their products years down the road. I would imagine if you called them after something broke and it is clear it was through normal use, they would be willing to discuss replacing it. I know they have also sent new parts out to folks who bought stoves prior to a design change. I would call them if you would like more details on how they handle issues after 6 months.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Anyone know what the warranty is for Woodstock stoves? Tried to find it on their website but found nothing. I do have one gripe about Woodstock so far, their website. It just doesn't have the look of a company site, more like a second party that sells the model.


You're right.....they do need to improve the website.  I know they are very busy, but that is no excuse if you're selling direct to the public.  They need to step it up a notch and bring in a professional web designer.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> That is correct. With that being said, I have heard plenty of stories about Woodstock standing behind their products years down the road. I would imagine if you called them after something broke and it is clear it was through normal use, they would be willing to discuss replacing it. I know they have also sent new parts out to folks who bought stoves prior to a design change. I would call them if you would like more details on how they handle issues after 6 months.


That happened to me with the PH.  I bought the early model and they sent me a new cat and cooktop about a year later when they improved the design because of some issues.  It was sent free of charge.

Besides the 6 month return policy, I believe the cat has a 3 year warranty.  I will check my manual to see if anything else is mentioned.


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## ambull01 (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> That is correct. With that being said, I have heard plenty of stories about Woodstock standing behind their products years down the road. I would imagine if you called them after something broke and it is clear it was through normal use, they would be willing to discuss replacing it. I know they have also sent new parts out to folks who bought stoves prior to a design change. I would call them if you would like more details on how they handle issues after 6 months.



Seems weird but great. I think I will call them. 



Tenn Dave said:


> You're right.....they do need to improve the website. I know they are very busy, but that is no excuse if you're selling direct to the public. They need to step it up a notch and bring in a professional web designer.



Yeah it's just really disorganized IMO. Almost looks like one of those scam sites. Click on Live Chat and download a virus. I think changing their site address would help too. If I'm going to send a company a couple thousand dollars I want to make sure they're legit. Having a real generic site called woodstove.com doesn't fill me with confidence.


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## Elbinwyp (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Seems weird but great. I think I will call them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it's just really disorganized IMO. Almost looks like one of those scam sites. Click on Live Chat and download a virus. I think changing their site address would help too. If I'm going to send a company a couple thousand dollars I want to make sure they're legit. Having a real generic site called woodstove.com doesn't fill me with confidence.


I had similar thoughts. Once I called them, I realized they had their crap together and were genuinely interested in my concerns/questions, it seemed like a no brainer. I immediately trusted them.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Anyone know what the warranty is for Woodstock stoves? Tried to find it on their website but found nothing. I do have one gripe about Woodstock so far, their website. It just doesn't have the look of a company site, more like a second party that sells the model.


OK, I just checked my PH manual.  The very 1st. page after the cover gives the warranty info.  There is the 6 month buy back, 2 years on the cat for any defect in workmanship and/or material and 3 years for any deterioration in cat stainless steel substrate material, and a 1 year replacement warranty for any other part of the stove that is defective due to material or workmanship.  Hope that helps.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 5, 2015)

ambull01 said:


> Yeah it's just really disorganized IMO. Almost looks like one of those scam sites. Click on Live Chat and download a virus. I think changing their site address would help too. If I'm going to send a company a couple thousand dollars I want to make sure they're legit. Having a real generic site called woodstove.com doesn't fill me with confidence.


There is a ton of information on the site, but at times it needs to be updated and organized a bit better.  And if you are going to have a blog, keep it current.


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## ambull01 (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> I had similar thoughts. Once I called them, I realized they had their crap together and were genuinely interested in my concerns/questions, it seemed like a no brainer. I immediately trusted them.



Yeah I trust them as a legit company from all the posts I've read here. But, if I was visiting their site for the first time having never heard of them before it would be a No Go. 



Tenn Dave said:


> OK, I just checked my PH manual. The very 1st. page after the cover gives the warranty info. There is the 6 month buy back, 2 years on the cat for any defect in workmanship and/or material plus an additional 3 years for any deterioration in cat stainless steel substrate material, and a 1 year replacement warranty for any other part of the stove that is defective due to material or workmanship. Hope that helps.



Nice, thanks! Sounds like a great warranty to me. I'm totally sold now. 



Tenn Dave said:


> here is a ton of information on the site, but at times it needs to be updated and organized a bit better. And if you are going to have a blog, keep it current.



Yes there is a lot of info. May just be one of the downsides of dealing with a really small company. There's more positives than negatives it seems but I would think their primary means of advertising is word of mouth. Customer goes to the site and is greeted by something that looks like really amateurish. Anyway, don't mean to knock it too much, that just really caught my attention. I do love the fact most/all the employees will have a vested interest in pleasing you as a customer should you call/have a concern. That's not very common these days with the predominance of massive companies.


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## alforit (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> I know they have a 6 month buy back guarantee if you are unsatisfied and I know that are great about sending replacement parts if there are issues for their newer stoves.
> 
> 
> I installed the IS in August. During shoulder season I was burning some punky ash and was loading every 24 hours with plenty of coals. I pushed that to ~30 hours a few times with plenty of coals to start the next load.




Nice......We're you still getting useable heat from the stove and was it maintaining temps in the house up to the point of reload ?


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 5, 2015)

Elbinwyp said:


> I know they have a 6 month buy back guarantee if you are unsatisfied and I know that are great about sending replacement parts if there are issues for their newer stoves.
> 
> 
> I installed the IS in August. During shoulder season I was burning some punky ash and was loading every 24 hours with plenty of coals. I pushed that to ~30 hours a few times with plenty of coals to start the next load.


Wow, I don't think my PH could ever do 30 hours.  For that matter 24 hours would be a challenge.


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## rideau (Feb 5, 2015)

Woodstock has very nice, thorough manuals that come with the stoves as well. 

I would not worry about warranty.  Keeping a Woodstock stove in good working order is pretty easy, and the company will help you all the way.  That said, they do have a good warranty, as stated above.


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## Sconnie Burner (Feb 5, 2015)

JA600L- How many sq ft are you heating and what year was your home built? Trying to gauge if this stove will have enough punch to heat my future home build.


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## begreen (Feb 5, 2015)

rideau said:


> Woodstock has very nice, thorough manuals that come with the stoves as well.
> 
> I would not worry about warranty.  Keeping a Woodstock stove in good working order is pretty easy, and the company will help you all the way.  That said, they do have a good warranty, as stated above.


They are a good company and they offer great personal customer service, but compared to many other major stove companies the 1 yr warranty seems quite limited and very short for a stove. That surprised me a bit.


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## rideau (Feb 6, 2015)

From my experience with Woodstock, I believe that if I ran into a problem years after purchasing my stove that was related to a design or production defect, as opposed to my usage of the stove, that Woodstock would not even have to be asked to cover the cost of repairing/updating the stove or stove part. 

If I caused a failure of a part in my stove, I would be sent that part by mail the day I contacted the company, and the cost of the part would be extremely reasonable. I would also receive detailed directions on how to replace the part, and phone assistance if necessary. 

I also have the option many years down the road of returning my stove to Woodstock for rebuilding, should I prefer this route to any future recementing that might be needed.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 6, 2015)

begreen said:


> They are a good company and they offer great personal customer service, but compared to many other major stove companies the 1 yr warranty seems quite limited and very short for a stove. That surprised me a bit.


From all the posts I have read here and the other site, warranty has never been an issue.  The stoves are extremely well built, parts are very reasonably priced (and often issued free of charge depending on the age and failure reason), and the guidance/help is super.  A warranty is only as good as the people who stand behind it.


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## rdust (Feb 7, 2015)

rideau said:


> I also have the option many years down the road of returning my stove to Woodstock for rebuilding, should I prefer this route to any future recementing that might be needed.



Just curious what would need to be re-cemented?  I thought the PH was a steel firebox with a soapstone exterior.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 7, 2015)

rdust said:


> Just curious what would need to be re-cemented?  I thought the PH was a steel firebox with a soapstone exterior.


I believe the PH is 700 lbs of cast and stone.  The IS is steel and stone.


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## rideau (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes, As Dave said, the PH firebox is soapstone.  Stove has two layers of soapstone, interior and exterior, with an air gap between. SP, cement on some stone and on gaskets.  There is a bit of steel in the stove:  for instance, the secondary burn plate is steel.


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## rdust (Feb 7, 2015)

rideau said:


> Yes, As Dave said, the PH firebox is soapstone.  Stove has two layers of soapstone, interior and exterior, with an air gap between. SP, cement on some stone and on gaskets.  There is a bit of steel in the stove:  for instance, the secondary burn plate is steel.



Ahh, not sure where I got mixed up.  I could have swore I read the PH firebox was steel(lined with soapstone) and the exterior was soapstone with cast accents.  I know the Fireview had a soapstone interior and exterior but for some reason remember reading/seeing the PH was different.  I thought the beta stove pictures we seen showed the stove without the soapstone/cast outside.  My memory for this stuff is usually pretty good, I remember wanting them to offer it without the soapstone/cast exterior.


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## rdust (Feb 7, 2015)

Looks like a steel firebox in these images.  http://blog.woodstove.com/2011/08/first-progress-hybrid-real-burn.html


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## BrotherBart (Feb 7, 2015)

Yup.


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## rideau (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes, sorry:  Soapstone inside and outside (two layers), steel between.  Stupid of me.  You can surely hear the steel as the stove heats and cools...a lot noisier than the Fireview. 

But, point stands.  There is cement in the stove, as well as cast iron.  It can need refurbishing down the road, and Woodstock will do the job for those who prefer not to do it themselves.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 7, 2015)

rdust said:


> Looks like a steel firebox in these images.  http://blog.woodstove.com/2011/08/first-progress-hybrid-real-burn.html


Guess you're right.  You don't really see the steel.. The firebox is line with soapstone and the exterior is all soapstone and cast iron.


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## begreen (Feb 8, 2015)

I like that Woodstock continues to push the envelope in combustion design and technology. The fact that they share it in their blogs is a refreshing difference from the secretive nature of the big stove companies. It must be a fun company to work for.


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## brad wilton (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm sure the stress levels are through the roof right now with all the backorders


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## rdust (Feb 8, 2015)

begreen said:


> I like that Woodstock continues to push the envelope in combustion design and technology. The fact that they share it in their blogs is a refreshing difference from the secretive nature of the big stove companies. It must be a fun company to work for.



I agree, for a smaller company to be the ones leading the way is awesome. 

Now I just need them to offer a stove with a blower!  I'd like to try an IS for a bit to see how it compares to my current stove.  I'm sure I could modify a blower to work with it.


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## begreen (Feb 8, 2015)

Tjernlund makes a retrofit blower system, the SB-1. 
Scroll down the page to view it:
http://www.tjernlund.com/Hearth.htm


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## rideau (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm sure Woodstock has considered the possibility of blowers and decided against them.  And I am sure they have good reason for doing so.  Much thought goes into their development/technology.    Maybe someone who wants the stove WITH a blower should call Woodstock and ask them why they have decided not to have blowers.  The answer might remove the person's desire for a blower.


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## JA600L (Feb 8, 2015)

Sconnie Burner said:


> JA600L- How many sq ft are you heating and what year was your home built? Trying to gauge if this stove will have enough punch to heat my future home build.



I have a 1977 rancher with half of the basement being garage. The attic has been re-insulated to the current code. The garage ceiling was pumped full of cellulose. The basement walls were all insulated. I am heating from the basement about 1800 sqft. I am not attempting to heat the garage.


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## JA600L (Feb 9, 2015)

The result of a 16 hour burn and yes it would go much longer!  Notch#2 white oak fuel.


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## ambull01 (Feb 9, 2015)

JA600L said:


> The result of a 16 hour burn and yes it would go much longer!  Notch#2 white oak fuel.



Damn still a lot of fuel left. I'm impressed.


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## rdust (Feb 9, 2015)

Impressive!  

Did you have splits standing up and down at the door?  I've alawys wondered how I would fill that ackward space in the stove caused by the slanted roof.  Did you take any temps of the stove, indoor, outdoor?  Did the cat stay active?  I assume the door was too blacked out to take a picture through?


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## JA600L (Feb 24, 2015)

So, with this really cold weather I have been pushing lots of oak and locust through the stove.  This made it difficult to burn all the coals down and properly sift the ash. 

On Saturday I decided to burn it down and clean it out. I ended up taking 4 1/2 ash pan loads out of it. Those familiar with the stove know that this is a lot.  

I have decided that I need to manage my coal bed a little better and consider this a learning curve.  The good news is this drastically changed the performance of the stove.  

The stove really leans more into a cat burn.  I have a lot more control over it.  Burn times are significantly better as I can fit way more wood in it. 

I believe the extra ash insulation piling up was leading to more secondary activity. Looking at it now I would say I was only filling the  stove half way!


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## wildcatbb (Feb 24, 2015)

rideau said:


> From my experience with Woodstock, I believe that if I ran into a problem years after purchasing my stove that was related to a design or production defect, as opposed to my usage of the stove, that Woodstock would not even have to be asked to cover the cost of repairing/updating the stove or stove part.
> 
> If I caused a failure of a part in my stove, I would be sent that part by mail the day I contacted the company, and the cost of the part would be extremely reasonable. I would also receive detailed directions on how to replace the part, and phone assistance if necessary.
> 
> I also have the option many years down the road of returning my stove to Woodstock for rebuilding, should I prefer this route to any future recementing that might be needed.


In my case on my PH the fireback is warped after two seasons of burning, contacted Woodstock, Lorin put me in for a swap out (new stove) to remedie the problem, no questions asked. Can't get much better service than that.


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## wildcatbb (Feb 24, 2015)

rdust said:


> I agree, for a smaller company to be the ones leading the way is awesome.
> 
> Now I just need them to offer a stove with a blower!  I'd like to try an IS for a bit to see how it compares to my current stove.  I'm sure I could modify a blower to work with it.


Noooooooooo blower! They don't need it and it's part of the beauty of these things! Hence why they don't offer one!


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## CptJera (Feb 24, 2015)

wildcatbb said:


> Lorin put me in for a swap out (new stove) to remedie the problem, no questions asked.


I would DEFINITELY agree with you, Wildcat.  It doesn't get much better! That's the kind of report I love to see.I'm hopeful their production schedule is still on track to deliver my ISH by mid to late March, if not sooner.  These frigid temps and butt-deep snow have made my little Buck 21 do some serious damage to my stock of seasoned maple, ash, hickory and oak.  To generate enough heat to keep the heat pump from powering up, I'm only getting 2 to 3 hour burns on a load.  Granted, they're very small loads of 16" log splits as compared to the PH or ISH.  Still, I'm a bit worried I may not have enough put up for the remainder of this season.  Heading up to my tobacco barn now to bust a few white oak rounds to see if they're anywhere near less than 20%.  Y'all wish me luck!


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## HarvestMan (Feb 24, 2015)

wildcatbb said:


> In my case on my PH the fireback is warped after two seasons of burning, contacted Woodstock, Lorin put me in for a swap out (new stove) to remedie the problem, no questions asked. Can't get much better service than that.


OK, I'll play the WS heretic in the room.

Yes, this is great that the company is taking care of it.  But, what a PITA that you have to go through a re-install of that monster.  

I've got a Fv on order and I'm hoping not to need this kind of service.


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## Tenn Dave (Feb 24, 2015)

wildcatbb said:


> In my case on my PH the fireback is warped after two seasons of burning, contacted Woodstock, Lorin put me in for a swap out (new stove) to remedie the problem, no questions asked. Can't get much better service than that.


Did Lorin say whether or not you could just fill the void with a gasket and some cement?  Would this work as a long term fix or would the warpage continue to expand?


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## wildcatbb (Feb 24, 2015)

HarvestMan said:


> OK, I'll play the WS heretic in the room.
> 
> Yes, this is great that the company is taking care of it.  But, what a PITA that you have to go through a re-install of that monster.
> 
> I've got a Fv on order and I'm hoping not to need this kind of service.


I am rebuilding the hearth any way so it was coming off either way. It is kind of a pain but something I'm willing to do. The gasket material and cement I put in there seems to be doing fine and may be fine for a long time. Another option may be just getting the parts and tearing it down, but Id rather not tear it down that far. If a guy didn't want to move it/tear it apart, I'd say the gasket may be the easiest solution but I have no idea how long it will last. I never seem to go the easiest route!


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## fire_man (Feb 24, 2015)

I had zero luck long term plugging the warpage with a gasket. I even tried wiring the gasket in place and cementing it, but it always fell out and the gap got worse.


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## fire_man (Feb 24, 2015)

begreen said:


> I like that Woodstock continues to push the envelope in combustion design and technology. The fact that they share it in their blogs is a refreshing difference from the secretive nature of the big stove companies. *It must be a fun company to work for*.



I have heard first hand that this is a true statement.

Funny how companies that treat both their employees and customers well tend not to be owned by shareholders.


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## rideau (Feb 24, 2015)

Harvestman, I wouldn't worry at all.  The Fireview has been around for a very long time, and has proved to be a dependable, troublefree, much loved stove.

The PH was a new , innovative design when we early purchasers bought it at the offered discounted price, because Woodstock wanted to get a lot of stoves into homes quickly, functioning in varied set ups, so  they could quickly learn how the stove heated in the real world, and whether any modifications were indicated once the stove was burning in varied situations.  They found some issues, and addressed them quickly.   Their goal is always to produce an excellent product.  Can't ask for more. 

Again, you can be confident you will enjoy your Fireview.


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## OhioBurner© (Feb 25, 2015)

HarvestMan said:


> OK, I'll play the WS heretic in the room.
> 
> Yes, this is great that the company is taking care of it.  But, what a PITA that you have to go through a re-install of that monster.
> 
> I've got a Fv on order and I'm hoping not to need this kind of service.



Yes great customer service but would be far better if the stove hadn't failed in the first place. Besides the costumers inconvenience, I'm sure they loose a lot of money replacing parts at no cost, taking back stoves in their no questions asked policy, and even replacing entire stoves. But this keeps customers happy and business seems good, so hopefully WS will be in business for a long time!


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## wildcatbb (Feb 25, 2015)

I have no doubt they will...


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## wildcatbb (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm sure the complaint list  is waaaay shorter than the amount of satisfied customers.....and that being said, the way they handle those few complaints is the reason they will continue to prosper in my opinion. As with any new model, whether it's a car, truck, bicycle or a wood stove there are bound to be a few unforeseen problems with a brand new lineup, and as a consumer I understand this. How those hiccups are handled is all that really matters .....


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## wildcatbb (Feb 25, 2015)

Englander has seemed to be awesome as well. Just bought two, one for my shop and my buddy paid for one to go in his. We ordered our fans , they came in the mail and his had no fins on it. It was like they just forgot it when it was assembled, just a lonely shaft in the blower housing. No questions asked and another appeared in a couple days! That's great service as well! Just a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that if or when something happens, help is just a call away!


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## rideau (Feb 25, 2015)

We knew we were getting an early production stove that might well have subsequent modifications or improvements incorporated into our stoves, Ohioburner. 

We wanted those stoves for that burning season, and were fortunate that Woodstock made the tremendous effort necessary to get them out for 2011-2012. 

My Progress Hybrid made a huge difference in my life that winter.


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## rdust (Feb 25, 2015)

wildcatbb said:


> Noooooooooo blower! They don't need it and it's part of the beauty of these things! Hence why they don't offer one!



I see absolutely no reason why a steel stove wouldn't benefit from a blower *option*.  While every installation may not need a blower I need one to help move heat around my layout.  I've had two stoves in my house(Lopi Endeavor and the Princess) and both stoves heated the house far better with the blower in use.  I can heat the place without the blower but the stove needs to be run hotter/harder to do the same thing.  A house without an open layout or when the stove is installed deeper into a fireplace will benefit from a blower option.


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## JA600L (Feb 25, 2015)

I place a fan to the side of the stove. It aims in front of the glass towards my staircase. The only time I use that is during the coaling stage.

I rake the coals to the center,  Crack the ash pan door just a hair,  and close the primary to 1/4 or less. I get some more light secondary activity.  Then I turn the fan on.  This heated my house from 5:30 pm (35 outside) to 10:00 pm (27 outside).

My inside temp was 72 degrees.  Plenty of coals for a reload. This load of wood was put in at 6:30 am. It was not a full load maybe a little over 3/4 full.


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## JA600L (Feb 25, 2015)

I personally don't like the idea of cooling a stove off  by blowing air over it. The IS throws a ton of heat out the front.  So I just redirect the air that the stove has already released into the room.  This way I don't have to worry about robbing the stove of its efficiency.


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## alforit (Feb 25, 2015)

rdust said:


> I see absolutely no reason why a steel stove wouldn't benefit from a blower *option*.  While every installation may not need a blower I need one to help move heat around my layout.  I've had two stoves in my house(Lopi Endeavor and the Princess) and both stoves heated the house far better with the blower in use.  I can heat the place without the blower but the stove needs to be run hotter/harder to do the same thing.  A house without an open layout or when the stove is installed deeper into a fireplace will benefit from a blower option.



My sister has a PH and she has to use a fan to circulate the heat in her house.........She has high vaulted ceilings.

She aims it on the side of the stove also and it works perfect for her.


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## osagebow (Feb 25, 2015)

rdust said:


> I see absolutely no reason why a steel stove wouldn't benefit from a blower *option*.  While every installation may not need a blower I need one to help move heat around my layout.  I've had two stoves in my house(Lopi Endeavor and the Princess) and both stoves heated the house far better with the blower in use.  I can heat the place without the blower but the stove needs to be run hotter/harder to do the same thing.  A house without an open layout or when the stove is installed deeper into a fireplace will benefit from a blower option.



I tend to agree, I needed a blower with my previous pellet stove and my underpowered VG stove. From my limited experience this stove seems to lose the possibility of a blower because of the the dual vent options. Luckily, my floor plan allows me to heat from the basement with the big IS easily.
The Englander pellet stove was sufficient in most temps here in VA. Great unit.


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