# Running pellet stove on car adapter



## chrisasst (Jan 18, 2012)

I was thinking about this the other day, can a pellet stove, in a power out, below zero weather emergency, be run on a 120 volt car adapter? 
like these..

http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-400-Watt-12-Volt-120-Volt-Inverter/dp/B001RNOHBC
http://www.batterysavers.com/best-dc-ac-watt-inverter.html

I am guessing not because of the low wattage & amp out put on these devices? 
How many watts, etc... does it take to saefly run a pellet stove so it doesn't burn out the control boards?

Thoughts?


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## DirtyDave (Jan 18, 2012)

a 2000 watt continous woll drian 3 truck batteries in about 90 mins


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 18, 2012)

Without the igniter running on my Quads, they draw a max of 200 watts each.  Your bigger worry would be how 'clean' the 120 volts is that is being fed to your stove's computer, if it has one.


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## hoverfly (Jan 18, 2012)

Taken from the owners manual, Enviro Mini.

ELECTRICAL: The use of a surge protected power bar is recommended. The unit must be
grounded. The grounded electrical cord should be connected to a standard 110-120 volts, nominal
average 2.0 Amps (4.1 Amps peak), 60 hertz electrical outlet and also must be accessible. Ensure the
polarity to the outlet, the unit will be plugged into, is correct as incorrect polarity can affect the unitâ€™s
operation. If this power cord should become damaged, a replacement power cord must be purchased
from the manufacturer or a qualified ENVIRO dealer. Be careful that the electrical cord is not trapped
under the appliance and that it is clear of any hot surfaces or sharp edges. This unitâ€™s maximum power
requirement is 184 watts (600 watts peak).


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## 76brian (Jan 18, 2012)

Don't even bother with those, they're junk. Spend an extra few bucks and buy a decent UPS by APC and you'll be fine.


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## NOS Valves (Jan 18, 2012)

Well to me anyone that lives in a area where it gets really cold and power outage is a possibilty a backup generator is a must.


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2012)

an average computer ups is only going to run you for 10-20 min depending on the size of the unit.

Ideally, you want a pure sine output device.
I'm looking into getting 3 or 4 AGM sealed batteries, pure sine invertor, and charging methods including solar and a home-made generator with a 5hp small engine.


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 18, 2012)

Most UPS's run on small sealed lead acid batteries of the 12volt variety.  It is a simple thing to wire a deep cycle marine battery to the UPS and drastically lengthen its run time.  All the UPS's I've seen have an annoying alarm to alert you that the power is out and now you are on backup power, the intention is you will shut down the computer, and end the drawn on the UPS.  A good question is not how long the UPS will supply power, as this can be extended indefinitely by adding much larger batteries, but is it designed to operate continously?  Ideally you have a generator that takes over from the UPS shortly after the power shuts down.  Or you have a good pure sine wave inverter and several large deep cycle batteries to handle the extended running time.  At some point however, you will need to recharge batteries so sizing an inverter backup can be difficult.  How long will the power be out?  5 hours or 5 days?  It makes a difference.  A UPS and a Honda EU2000i generator will cost about twice what a pure sine wave inverter and two or three deep cycle batteries will cost.  But the Honda EU2000i will run your stove, fridge, tv, etc. as well.  You can guess what I own.....  My EU2000I ran for 5 days continuously after Irene.  Very quiet, you cannot hear it, nor can the neighbors, and only just over 2 gallons per day to keep the basics running.  RT


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2012)

I looked into that, and would advise against it.   The charge controllers in these ups's are not cut out for running large amp/hour batteries and may either cause damage or shirt out and fry.  It can be used as a backup to the backup, but i wouldn't leave it plugged into the wall to charge like this.   Keep in mind, batteries also leak gases- even the sealed ones.  AGM as the safest type for indoor use.


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## turbotech (Jan 18, 2012)

Most stoves require about 200 to 400 watts continuous to run. The inverter must be a pure sine because most controllers use TRIACS and require a sine wave. A typical Marine battery is rated at 130min reserve at 20 amps.
A stove using 300 watts requires 2.5A at 120V. That equates to (2.5/.9)*(120/12) = 28 amps from the battery. Using the marine battery at 28Amps gives 130*(20/28*.95) = 88 minutes or almost 1.5 hrs.
Realistically I would only run for 1 hr and then charge the battery. Completely draining & fast charging a battery shortens the life by a large amount.

Even using one of those Harbor Freight 800W buzz saw generators for $90 would be cheaper and last longer.


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## 3650 (Jan 18, 2012)

i read a few posts of harman accentras running eight hours on one marine battery.  i also remember a write up where a guy converted an apc to operate and charge on a series of deep cycle batteries.  it wasnt for the novice though.

im curious, can you hook the inverter up to a car battery while its running?


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## Czech (Jan 19, 2012)

Not to highjack at all, but along the same lines. For those of us that have a cheapy generator, is there a way to clean up the output so the stove is happy?


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## 76brian (Jan 19, 2012)

Czech said:
			
		

> Not to highjack at all, but along the same lines. For those of us that have a cheapy generator, is there a way to clean up the output so the stove is happy?



A line conditioner or UPS will get you as close as you're going to get.


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## 76brian (Jan 19, 2012)

briansol said:
			
		

> an average computer ups is only going to run you for 10-20 min depending on the size of the unit.



Back-UPS Pro 1500VA, 2 hours of runtime at 200 watts. $179.95. Don't use the ignitor.


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## forya (Jan 19, 2012)

Anybody know of a good pure sine wave inverter.  They are all over the place in price


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## gfreek (Jan 19, 2012)

> im curious, can you hook the inverter up to a car battery while its running?



Yes you can.  Here is a good link on inverters.

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2012)

The do sell power conditioners (rack gear for musicians, light shows, etc) but they aren't cheap...   almost might as well just buy a pure sin eu2000


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## gfreek (Jan 19, 2012)

> Anybody know of a good pure sine wave inverter



I have this: Xantrex  SW600, true sine wave, 540 watt continuous, 1200 surge.  

http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWa...sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326941324&sr=8-1-spell


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## hoverfly (Jan 19, 2012)

We don't even know what kind of car this person drives. Maybe it's a Hybrid?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 19, 2012)

RWThomas1, on the Honda EU2000i generator, how do you know it's pure sine wave output?  I read through the manual and see no such claim.  I just see an inverter and noise filter in the schematic.  Like to know before I plunk down more money.


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2012)

the entire eu series is pure sine output


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 19, 2012)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> RWThomas1, on the Honda EU2000i generator, how do you know it's pure sine wave output?  I read through the manual and see no such claim.  I just see an inverter and noise filter in the schematic.  Like to know before I plunk down more money.




Here you go, as clean or cleaner than what you get off the grid.  Click on the "advanced inverter technology" link  http://powerequipment.honda.com/pro...tion=P2GG&modelname=EU2000i&modelid=EU2000IKN

RT


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 19, 2012)

Its a simple thing to add a set of taps to any UPS battery.  When the power quits, hook the marine battery up in parallel, then disconnect the UPS stock battery if it makes you happy.  Any deep cycle can be stored with a Battery Tender, or similar smart charger, plugged in to maintain the battery.  There are inverter/charger units available that will charge a battery bank while acting as a transfer switch from line power.  The inverter will automatically switch to battery power when the line voltage quits.  This is common stuff in the marine world.

I'm a believer in a small inverter style generator.  I have a Honda but Yamaha and others make comparable units.  These small generators will run the essential parts of your house as well as the pellet stove.  The inverter/battery/ups will ONLY do the pellet stove.  I makes sense to have a small UPS for the pellet stove since if the power does go out the pellet stove will continue to run and likely you will not have it back up smoke into your house.  Extending running on the UPS is impractical and only serves the stove.  The small inverter generator will run a fridge, TV, computer and the pellet stove.  Most of the smaller inverter generators will not run a microwave, except maybe just the microwave, so its definitely not a "whole house" solution.  I can live with just the essential electrical demands met for the extremely low noise and low fuel use the inverter designs offer.  RT


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 19, 2012)

rwthomas1 said:
			
		

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## F6hawk (Jan 19, 2012)

76brian said:
			
		

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Not sure where you got the 2-hour figure... APC claims 33 minutes at 200 watts.  See Estimated Runtime on this page to change the values:
http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=27&tab=compare&flush=1&list=BR700G;BE750G;BR1500G


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2012)

F6hawk said:
			
		

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There are two configurations of this unit one called A on the runtime graph and one called B which has another piece added to the setup.  I haven't gone looking for it at this moment.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2012)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

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From the waveform image it isn't a pure sine wave but likely close enough to keep the motors happy.


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 19, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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## watrskir (Jan 19, 2012)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Without the igniter running on my Quads, they draw a max of 200 watts each.  Your bigger worry would be how 'clean' the 120 volts is that is being fed to your stove's computer, if it has one.




Power from a battery to an inverter is probably the "cleanest" power your ever going to get!!


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## 76brian (Jan 19, 2012)

Any company can put "Pure" on any product and it really doesn't mean anything. Kinda like "Premium" pellets. There's no industry standard that defines a "pure" sine wave. Bring me 100 different "pure" sine wave products and I'll show you 100 different waveforms on a digital oscilloscope.

It's just marketing. Yes, some definitely have a "cleaner" waveform than others, but unless you can actually see that waveform in the real world, saying "pure" on the box really doesn't mean anything.


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## 76brian (Jan 19, 2012)

F6hawk said:
			
		

> Not sure where you got the 2-hour figure... APC claims 33 minutes at 200 watts.  See Estimated Runtime on this page to change the values:
> http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=27&tab=compare&flush=1&list=BR700G;BE750G;BR1500G




Watts                  50                    100                  200                  300                  400        500        600        700         800        Full                        Half
BR1500G
 + (1)BR24BPG 6 hrs 40 mins 3 hrs 39 mins 1 hrs 50 mins 1 hrs 11 mins 52 min 40 min 33 min 27 min 23 min 21 min (865 Watts) 48 min (432.5 Watts)

http://www.apc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=27

Sorry, forgot to mention the optional extra battery pack (BR24BPG) is about $100 or so. Still a good deal for the run time you get out of it.


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 19, 2012)

While I understand marketing, etc. and the fact that any company can make a claim, especially when there is no accepted standards, you have to start somewhere.  I have a Honda inverter genset.  It works very well, is rock solid reliable and efficient.  There are other great inverter gensets out there, Yamaha is one but there is plenty of crap too.  If you look around you will find that the top brands, Honda and Yamaha specifically have a large following based solely on the products ability to deliver the service and performance they are advertised to.  I would find it extremely unlikely either of these brands would have a problem running ANY pellet stove.  Now a cheap Chinese knockoff inverter genset may have issues, but the price is what sucks most people in, some work, some don't.  You pays yo money and takes yo chances....

RT


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2012)

rwthomas1 said:
			
		

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Electronics rarely have trouble with inverters however motors can and do. 

Like I said that isn't a pure sine wave (full stop)

It isn't the electronics that get hammered  on pellet stoves operating off of an inverter, it is the three shaded pole motors that are already seeing chopped up waveforms.


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## rwthomas1 (Jan 19, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

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Well, eventually the power will go out and I will run my Lopi on the Honda and report back.  I'm willing to bet the stove there will be no issues.  RT


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## khenault (Jan 20, 2012)

Hoverfly said:
			
		

> This unitâ€™s maximum power
> requirement is 184 watts (600 watts peak).



Um, Uh.  Would most folk assume maximum and peak mean kinda the same thing?

I'm guess that maximum is sustained draw, and peak would be a spike, but that sentence isn't very clear.


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## F6hawk (Jan 20, 2012)

Ken-H said:
			
		

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From reading other brochures, the fan uses about 200 watts, and the igniter about 400... perhaps that is where the peak number comes from?


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## DirtyDave (Jan 21, 2012)

wow I guess CHEAP foriegn made motors are used in making pellet stoves.  a train uses a diesel motor to run the generator to make electric power to motivate itself. non pure sine wave. the Voltage amount is critical and amperes.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 21, 2012)

DirtyDave said:
			
		

> wow I guess CHEAP foriegn made motors are used in making pellet stoves.  a train uses a diesel motor to run the generator to make electric power to motivate itself. non pure sine wave. the Voltage amount is critical and amperes.



Not only are cheap foreign motors actually used they are fed chopped AC to achieve speed control.  Chopping the chop leads to motor issues.  I usually starts with a slowing down and change in the motor sounds, then progresses to burn out (non bearing).


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## zmedic (Dec 10, 2014)

so would this be safe to run my pellet stove and refrigerator on a surge protector?  
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Champion...5yc1vZbx9nZ2bctk3Z2bctk4Z2bctk5Z2bctk6Z2bctk7


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## briansol (Dec 10, 2014)

Maybe.


smaller gen sets that are not pure sine output have the tendency to fluctuate voltage as loads come on and go off (the gen can't spin up fast enough to keep it smooth).  Some stove electronics are sensitive to this.
others aren't.

my stove whined like a dying hyena on a modified sine generator.  

your results may vary.


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## zmedic (Dec 10, 2014)

where I live I may go 3-4 days if power goes out whats my best option so as to not mess up my stove?  I am on a budget.


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## chken (Dec 10, 2014)

zmedic said:


> where I live I may go 3-4 days if power goes out whats my best option so as to not mess up my stove?  I am on a budget.


Since you're "on a budget" and you don't want to "mess up" your stove, or fridge, I'd consider this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramsond-...erator-SIN1500/203423835?N=5yc1vZbx9nZ1z0z72o

That's a Pure Sine inverter/generator in the same price range as that Champion generator you linked to. If you don't mind switching back and forth between your essential appliances, I think that's likely to be cleaner power than the Champion.


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## gfreek (Dec 11, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/73538i-Cham...839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f41ec25b7
I have run my Harman for many hours off this Champion


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