# 7 degrees & windy in New England, Austroflamm Integra II fills house with smoke (again)..



## eddyburns (Dec 30, 2009)

It was the coldest night of the year and my year-old Austroflamm (Rika) Integra II nightmare continued.  It ran fine for 8-12 hours before malfunctioning.  The stove shut down both blowers, permitting the fire to die prior to restarting the blowers and filling the burn pot (and pellet feed tube) with pellets...  The pellets began to smoke (but not light) and the blowers shut off again.  The house filled with smoked before the blowers resumed functioning (erratically).  Once this happened, the blowers jump around between high, low and off, sometimes accompanied by with a deep motor straining noise when the blower shuts down.  After I shut the unit down and it unit cools off, it runs normally again for another half a day.

Yesterday, after waiting fifteen (15) days for warranty service to fix the issue, I paid $90 for a service call to adjust the hopper lid switch (???).  The stove's warranty has been useless, since the shop shop won't replace the suspected main board out of fear that the Distributor will not reimburse for the repair if the board tests OK later.  So I have more than a half dozen videos over the past two weeks showing the stove malfunctioning, but can't get parts replaced until "they are sure what it is".  The Distributor hasn't seen anything like this before and the stove shop is guessing based on limited experience with these units.  Its especially frustrating since the malfunctions are intermittent and I can't seem to get it to malfunction when someone is here. Once the stove begins malfunctioning, I have to turn it off (though I've been told there's no danger of a house fire, the excessive smoke may not be good for the 4 & 5 year old children living in the house). 

My patience has worn out and I regret this $4100 investment.  

Ed


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 30, 2009)

Ed,

Did the auger stop feeding after the blowers went off the first time and is your hi limit snap disc (if any) auto reset?


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## eddyburns (Dec 30, 2009)

I have seen no reference to a high limit snap disk with the Austroflamm/Rika stoves.  After it shuts off and resets, it runs fine for a while.  

Is the high limit snap disk something that has to be replaced after it  "snaps"?  

There are no error codes on the display - something the Distributor finds interesting.

Thanks

Ed


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 30, 2009)

eddyburns said:
			
		

> I have seen no reference to a high limit snap disk with the Austroflamm/Rika stoves.  After it shuts off and resets, it runs fine for a while.
> 
> Is the high limit snap disk something that has to be replaced after it  "snaps"?
> 
> ...



A hi limit normally comes in two forms auto reset and push to reset.

I was never a fan of the auto reset switches being used as safeties under certain conditions.

Is there an installation and owners manual available on-line ?

If there is I'll download it and spend a bit of time going through it.  But it will be this evening before I'll be able to get to it.


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## jtakeman (Dec 30, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> A hi limit normally comes in two forms auto reset and push to reset.
> 
> *I was never a fan of the auto reset switches *being used as safeties under certain conditions.



Me neither, Really hard to diagnose the auto reset hi limits. Much rather see a manual reset. But wish the stove manufacturer's would provide an access door to get at them. Or some type of remote reset button.

Are you running the stove close to max heat setting? Some stoves are not meant to run at there extreme heat settings for long periods.


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## eddyburns (Dec 30, 2009)

There is a high temperature cutoff switch - and the stove shuts down at higher settings (65-75%) of max.  However, it has also shut down at 30-35% of max - thats whats confusing.  (In fact, its functioning erratically this very moment while set at 50% - kids and wife are out, so the stove is on again).

I believe the pellet feed stops at the same time the blowers shut down - would a high temp shutoff switch turn off the feed auger, the combustion blower and the convection blower?  Everything shuts down, only the display on the side indicates the stove is running (without error codes). 

I understand a high temperature shutoff switch cutting off the fuel (pellet feed), but shutting off all the blowers when the switch reads "excessively" hot would prevent cooling.   How do other stoves work?

Thanks

Ed


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## iceman (Dec 30, 2009)

eddyburns said:
			
		

> There is a high temperature cutoff switch - and the stove shuts down at higher settings (65-75%) of max.  However, it has also shut down at 30-35% of max - thats whats confusing.  (In fact, its functioning erratically this very moment while set at 50% - kids and wife are out, so the stove is on again).
> 
> I believe the pellet feed stops at the same time the blowers shut down - would a high temp shutoff switch turn off the feed auger, the combustion blower and the convection blower?  Everything shuts down, only the display on the side indicates the stove is running (without error codes).
> 
> ...


could you please post what your settings are on the control board?

you have a bad motherboard......
all pellet stove are designed to keep the blower/combustion fans running for a certain time/temp this is a safety feature to prevent exactly what is happening to you....filling up with smoke.....  check your pipes just to rule out anything weird (never know with pellets stoves)  but one thing that has me curious is how is smoke  getting into your house??  most stoves (especially when vented properly) are sealed enough as to smoke doesnt come out ... a natural draft would usually make the smoke go out on its own...  most of the time.. not always


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## eddyburns (Dec 30, 2009)

The control board settings is manual - there are no real settings besides the relative combustion rate (0-100%).  All settings for feed rates are at the factory defaults with the exception of the convection blower which is set to high (150% of factory).

These stoves don't have alot of settings unless you decide to increase the pellet feed rates or cleaning cycle frequency.  Ironically, everything worked fine from January 2009 when it was installed until early December when everything became erratic.  I suspect the motherboard because of the erratic nature and absence of error codes), but since it won't fail consistently, I have to buy a new motherboard ($750+-) and possibly a new control board ($200+-).  

I have seen somewhere the codes to access the factory settings, so I'll post these later.

Thanks for your help.


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## imacman (Dec 30, 2009)

eddyburns said:
			
		

> ......Ironically, everything worked fine from January 2009 when it was installed until early December when everything became erratic.  I suspect the motherboard because of the erratic nature and absence of error codes)......



I'll throw out my usual question, even though it may not be relevant here.  You say that the stove ran fine from Jan. '09 until December, and then became "erratic".

So the real question is when was the last COMPLETE cleaning done?  Blowers removed & cleaned, pipes cleaned 100%, ash traps all cleaned, plus all the normal cleaning items (firebox, pot, heat exchanger, ash pan, etc)?

BTW, were there any warnings signs, or did this just happen all of a sudden?


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## eddyburns (Dec 31, 2009)

Ash pan gets cleaned every 3 days.  Every 2-3 weeks, I pull out the back plates and clean out with vac, including heat exchange tubes, etc.  After last season, I cleaned the pipes.  After stove began to act erratic, I pulled the motors, cleaned the back passage, etc. (note, everything was pretty clean).

This change happened one morning - suddenly ~ unlike the slow changes in burning patterns when the unit begins to need a cleaning.


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## teetah222 (Dec 31, 2009)

Dare I ask if you have a clean-out T in the stove pipe, and has it been cleaned?  Maybe it is just enough constricted that airflow changing in the pipe can change something. Just brainstorming here...


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## maglite67 (Dec 31, 2009)

Sounds like the control board to me.  Do you have ver. 1.32 or 1.39 you should be on the 1.39.  Your dealer should not be worried about the 500 dollars for the board when they have an unhappy customer.  call Rika and explain the problem and ask for service and if not fixed you want a refund or replacement.  Even a white lie like your child is allergic to smoke and could have to goto the doctor may help if you hit a wall.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

Ed,

About the convection air blower being at 150% of default.  Would it be possible to back that off and oiling the convection blower if it has oil ports?

I haven't pulled a manual for that stove yet and I really don't want to read one this evening, its been a long day.  But here is a possibility, your convection motor could be thermaling off causing the over fire switch to open stopping the pellet feed.   After a short period of time it can cool enough to restart letting any auto reset hi limit to also reset starting the pellet feed which by that time the stove has almost reached shut down.

This could lead to pellets hitting a hot smoldering burn pot leading to tons o smoke that isn't going to be drafted out the flue easily.

Please note this is just a wild hind end guess.  This condition would start after the lubrication in the motor has evaporated off, it would first show up when the stove has to work hard and eventually it will get more frequent as the last of the oil is evaporated.  Some stoves running on low will never cause the hi temp limit to be reached so it won't always happen.


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## eddyburns (Dec 31, 2009)

I cleaned out the clean out T two weeks ago.  there are no oil ports (look like sealed bearings) for the convection and combustion blowers.


Control Board Software version is 1.36.
Convection blower is 150.
Cleaning cycle 60 minutes
Fuel type 1

Here are the control panel software settings - they look like the factory defaults.
s1 = .9               (min. auger pulse in 1/10 seconds)
s2 = 3.3             (max. auger pulse in 1/10 seconds)
r1 = 1                (delay in initiating shtdown cycle in minutes)
r2 = 120            (duration of final cleaning in seconds)
n1 = 5               (duration of cool down phase in seconds)
z1 = 12              (duration of igniter during startup in minutes)
a1 = 21              (startup cycle duration in minutes)
g1 = 110            (minimum rpm of combustion fan at lowest heat output setting in multiples of 10)
g2 = 190            (minimum rpm of combustion fat at highest heat setting, displayed in multiple of 10)
g3 = 40              (bandwidth of combustion fan in 5 OF RELATIVE MINIMUM)
L1 = .8               (minimum airflow in 1/10/m/s
L2 = 12              (air flow value in 1/10/m/s at which regular operation resumes)
SS = .9             ?
S6 = 3.3            ?
R5 = 1              ?
R6 = 120          ?
N5 = 5             ?
Z5 = 1.2           ?
A5 = 21             ?
G5 = 150          ?
G6 = 250          ?
G7 = 40           ?
L5 = 8              ?
L6 = 40            ?

Thats all I can access..  Everything is set per factory manual.  

The problem is definitely getting worse, the stove malfunctions within several hours of startup...

Thanks

Ed


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

When was the last time you cleaned the blades on your combustion fan and the cavity it sits in?


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## imacman (Dec 31, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> When was the last time you cleaned the blades on your combustion fan and the cavity it sits in?



Smokey, see post #9 above.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

Ed,

I downloaded and skimmed through the manual.  

Damn auto reset limit switches.


2. OVERHEATING
If the stove overheats, an excess temperature switch (Hi-Limit) will shut-off the stove fuel feed.
After the stove has cooled down, the stove defaults back to the original control program. However, heating only
continues if there are embers in the burn pot. If the stove does not re-ignite when fuel is fed again, then the
shut-down process (cleaning, after-running phase) is carried out.


You might want to have your convection fan checked.  If it has problems it will lead to overheating.

All of your motors have sealed bearings, but as I found out that doesn't mean they don't lose lubrication, all it takes is a blown seal.  I'm on my second combustion blower because the first one had a blown seal and my third convection blower because its lubricant was being evaporated off due to being to close to the firebox.  The factory provided a blower adapter that set the blower several inches further back and lower than its original position.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

Ok, macman, that takes care of the cavity but those blades are important as well.  

I also noticed that the software had parameters dealing with air flow through the combustion fan that determines the operating mode of the stove.  How they are measuring that they don't say.  I'm just looking for things that would affect air flow.


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## imacman (Dec 31, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Ok, macman, that takes care of the cavity but those blades are important as well.......



Yep, I agree 100%.....I just figured that since he took it out, he must have scraped/brushed the vanes.......or not.

I just did the 1 ton (actually waited until 1.4 tons) clean today.....all the blowers out, auger motor & auger out, vacuum entire stove, etc, etc.  The build-up on the comb. vanes wasn't terrible, but after cleaning them and re-assembling the stove, I had to lower heat setting on stove from 7 to 5.....NICE!

I'm on a learning curve with the "new" Englander 10-cpm.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

macman said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear you on the learning curve.  Still there on mine and I've had it for over a year, last night was the first night I ran the stove above 2, I didn't trust it so I was up every couple of hours checking the burn pot.   I was just trying to see if it would both handle the load and not do something crazy like thermal off or pile up.

I've got to get some more gasket material and do the combustion blower in another week.


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## teetah222 (Dec 31, 2009)

:smirk: You're worried about running at 2?  I set my EP 25 at 1 (heat, 2 or 3 fan) all the time, unless it's really cold.  Funny how temps and areas change things.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 31, 2009)

Haubera said:
			
		

> :smirk: You're worried about running at 2?  I set my EP 25 at 1 (heat, 2 or 3 fan) all the time, unless it's really cold.  Funny how temps and areas change things.



Not at 2, above 2, it's a long story and not really related to this thread with the exception of the possible over temperature shut down.


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## Hot_h20 (Dec 31, 2009)

> The problem is definitely getting worse, the stove malfunctions within several hours of startup…



This does not point towards a board failure.  Most electrical faults are immediate, rather than gradually getting worse.(Although you did say the initial problem happened suddenly)

Why hasn't the dealer just installed a board from the shop to see if the problem goes away?  The cost to them would be time only, and you would be much happier being able to rule something out.  Squeeky Rika gets the grease, so to speak.


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## jumpinin (Dec 31, 2009)

Did you pull the combustion motor? If so - you would have had to replace the gasket - there is no way to salvage the old one in one piece. When I cleaned my Integra in the spring the combustion motor was cruddeded pretty bad with a fair amount of ash built up in the housing. Can you spin the combustion motor freely by hand from the outside? Do the fins feel as if they are scraping the housing? Another thing to check - on my unit the motor cabling was tie-wrapped rather tightly causing strain on all associated connectors going to the mother board. Take your brightest flashlight and carefully inspect all of those push-on connections. I know its a long shot but when we first got our stove - I mistakenly plugged it into a switched outlet - kids would run by switch and toggle it - poof - stove shuts down intermittently - took me a couple of times to figure that one out.


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## pelletfan (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm late in my 2cents postings but will try to see if I can help.
I would start with having a clean stove as this is the issue of most stoves not working properly

As I can read from your post you did normal cleaning positures like heat exchanger cleaning and Ash removal.
The most important part like the big cleaning leaves a couple of questions open.
The integra has to be cleaned on the left side (Motorhousing - exhaust) as well on the right side.

Motor housing:
take the motor off and vacuum the pipes quite well and clean also the propeller of motor. Oiling is not needed as everthing is sealed.
see attached picture for illustration.


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## pelletfan (Dec 31, 2009)

second the right side:
see attached picture.
You have to open that cover and use the vacuum cleaner too. Here is a lot of ash too.


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## pelletfan (Dec 31, 2009)

air sensor cleaning:
this is more delicate it has to be cleaned with a brush. You have to remember how you took it out and put it back the correct way.
Otherwise you are running into problems.


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## eddyburns (Jan 2, 2010)

I can't say if the problem came on suddenly since the malfunction is intermittent.  I noticed that the stove was smoking out the house on startup one day when the combustion fan completely shut down during the startup cycle, but I thought it was a freak occurrence.  Several days later, I noticed that the shutdown also occurred at 50%.  Since then, the problem has reoccurred at 35% and 20%, but requires extended run times for a malfunction at lower temperatures.  I can't guarantee that its a bad main board, but the problems are too erratic (what else would intermittently shut down & restart combustion and convection blowers at high temps?)...  The shop won't replace the board because Distributor will not reimburse the shop if the board tests out OK.  The repair would be easier if the unit would just completely fail, but after the unit is shut off, it runs OK for many hours.  My six videos showing multiple malfunction have been forwarded by the shop to the Distributor.  

The stove is off - it overheated several nights ago after the combustion fans shut off (intermittently) with the stove running at 50%.  It appears something may have melted behind the steel baffles.  I will no longer endanger my family or children with this unit.  It is shut down indefinitely until it is repaired.

Ed


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## summit (Jan 2, 2010)

check the low limit switch on the exhaust: if its crapping out, then the stove will shut down like this... I have had several Rika switches that literally fell into two pieces when I removed them to check them... Often times, when the switch is closed, if it is bad you can shake it and hear the pieces rattling around.


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## pelletfan (Jan 2, 2010)

> check the low limit switch on the exhaust: if its crapping out, then the stove will shut down like this… I have had several Rika switches that literally fell into two pieces when I removed them to check them… Often times, when the switch is closed, if it is bad you can shake it and hear the pieces rattling around.



Summit you are correct, this is one of the first items I would recommend to test if it works correctly. 
*It is even mentioned in the manual, see below...... l*



> PROBLEM
> Fire goes out or the furnace switches
> off automatically.
> Cause(s):
> ...



There are quite a lot of open items or inconsistencies here, about which we don't know
We also have not heard back about the cleaning steps done on the stove. 
What did the dealer do????? just look at it after the first repair call.....


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## eddyburns (Jan 2, 2010)

Thank you Pelletfan and Summit:

Pelletfan - do you have a diagnostic manual on this stove?

Summit - Would a low limt switch be able to intermittently turn off and restart the combustion blower, convention blower and auger on a "hot" running Austroflamm without triggering an error code on the board? 

The dealer came for a service call on Tuesday and adjusted the hopper lid switch that was "tripping too low" (for $95) - that didn't solve the problem.  The shop doesn't want to start changing parts until they are "sure what is wrong" or the Distributor authorizes a new control board..

I cleaned the stove completely (even though its only burned 4 tons since new) - including the air intake sensor, the combustion fan/housing and the rear exhaust tube and brushing out everything from the combustion blower to the vent cap..  I haven't checked the pressure switch or the high limit switches (though the shop didn't seem to believe they were the issue)- none of these parts have triggered an error code on the display that would indicate a shutdown.  

The shop called this afternoon and gave me the sequence to reboot/reset the motherboard.  I completed that reset several hours ago and I'm watching it burn.   I have to leave the house for a few hours and won't run the stove unsupervised while my family sleeps, so I'll update everyone later.  

Thanks for the feedback.


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## pelletfan (Jan 3, 2010)

> The shop called this afternoon and gave me the sequence to reboot/reset the motherboard


the reset of motherboard is good because it gets rid of wrong board settings if they exist. 



> The dealer came for a service call on Tuesday and adjusted the hopper lid switch that was “tripping too low” (for $95) - that didn’t solve the problem. The shop doesn’t want to start changing parts until they are “sure what is wrong” or the Distributor authorizes a new control board..


Get your dealer moving a little bit faster on your case. (sorry I'm from NY-and we don't have that much patience) You did not buy your stove in a discount place. 
Did you have a chance to check the air-sensor on the stove????
I have some tech stuff for the Integra II but in your case, I would not start changing factory settings. 
The factory settings are quite good and I find no need to change them. These are more settings to improve performance of stove which does not apply to your case.
With your stove one has to find the reason for the shut downs. I you want them I can send them to you (PM)
Something on the sidelines, are you using a power protector??? (for stove) and or do you have a Smoke/CO2 close to the stove working.


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## THE ROOSTER (Jan 3, 2010)

Dropped to 4* last night, and highs only expected to be in the 20's for the next seven days... Glad I've only burned 6 bags as of today


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## eddyburns (Jan 4, 2010)

Update - 

I reset the motherboard on Sunday morning and everything appeared OK until Monday morning.  After allowing the hopper to almost empty, I filled the hopper with three bags of pellets and  cleaned the firepot.  The stove began shutting down the both blowers and began an endless cycle of high blower - low blower (both combustion and convection), virtually permitting the fire to go out before feeding more pellets.  This went on for 30 minutes before I shut it down and went to work.  (Yes, I was late to work again because of my stove)...

The air sensor was inspected and cleaned - used a compressed air can for electronics to make sure everything was good.

Yes, a surge suppressors is used and fire /carbon monoxide sensors are hardwired nearby. I installed new hard-wire combined sensors throughout the house this summer (including near the stove) and retained the previous battery powered units in the basement as well.  

Called the stove shop (again)...


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## luckydist (Jan 5, 2010)

In reading through the threads of your posts, I see some possible resolutions:

First, in the list of where you show your stove being on the FU1 setting, have you tried changing it to FU2?  Sounds like your stove is a candidate for the reason why that setting was created.  If you have not tried that then you should.  There is lots of documentation out there that eludes to this and the reasons why you would.

Second, when you cleaned your stove, did you remove the clean-out access plate on the back of the combustion chamber and clean that area out?  This is a roughly 4" round plate on the control board side of the stove and you can only get to it by taking off both of the right side panels.  This area will hold a lot of ash and if not cleaned out periodically it will plug up your stove.  There are four air passages behind the baffles that exit to this chamber.  If those passages get plugged or almost plugged, the stove will starve for air.

Third, when you removed the fan, is it possible you damaged the gasket material and you have an air leak?  If this is the case your stove will be sucking in air at the exhaust exit point instead of the air intake and none of that air will be going through the burn pot.

Based upon your software version (determined to be at least 1.33 since you have FU1/FU2 options) if you had an issue with the high limit switch you would be seeing an ER2.  If an error with the low limit it would be ER0.  I don't think you are having an issue with either of those sensors if you don't see either of those two errors.    Both sensors are self resetting and don't need to be replaced if they trigger.  The low limit is closed when the stove is hot, and opens when it gets below about 100 degrees (if it's open the stove is too cold to run so it will shutdown).  The high sensor is normally closed all the time but will open at somewhere well over 200 degrees.  If that sensors opens it will also cause an eventual shutdown but the stove will have to stay running long enough to open the low limit - this could take a couple of hours depending upon how hot the stove was when the high limit opened.

Are you seeing either an ER4 or a flashing display any time prior to the stove error'ing out?  Do you have an insert or a free standing and what does the vent configuration look like (3" or 4" rigid or flex, any angles such as 45's or 90's, both horizontal and vertical lengths, etc...)  It would be helpful to know for sure what software version you do have and your serial number.  Knowing answers to these questions might help me get you going in the right direction.  I am certainly no expert, but I do know a lot about the newer RIKA pellet stoves.


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## eddyburns (Jan 6, 2010)

> First, in the list of where you show your stove being on the FU1 setting, have you tried changing it to FU2?  Sounds like your stove is a candidate for the reason why that setting was created.  If you have not tried that then you should.  There is lots of documentation out there that eludes to this and the reasons why you would.


I tried setting two this past weekend..  Same problem.



> Second, when you cleaned your stove, did you remove the clean-out access plate on the back of the combustion chamber and clean that area out?  This is a roughly 4" round plate on the control board side of the stove and you can only get to it by taking off both of the right side panels.  This area will hold a lot of ash and if not cleaned out periodically it will plug up your stove.  There are four air passages behind the baffles that exit to this chamber.  If those passages get plugged or almost plugged, the stove will starve for air.


Yes.  Cleaned completely including the back passage..  Stove only had 3-4 tons since new, it was virtually clean.  



> Third, when you removed the fan, is it possible you damaged the gasket material and you have an air leak?  If this is the case your stove will be sucking in air at the exhaust exit point instead of the air intake and none of that air will be going through the burn pot.


I'll replace that gasket - though it came off undamaged.  Stove had the same problem before and after the cleaning.  Also, no explanation for the groaning noise coming out of the convection fan when it cycles endlessly between high to low until it is shutdown..  I have given 6 videos of this to the stove shop to be forwarded to the manufacturer/distributor(?).  Even if the unit had been clogged, why would it shut itself down hot without a cooldown cycle?



> Based upon your software version (determined to be at least 1.33 since you have FU1/FU2 options) if you had an issue with the high limit switch you would be seeing an ER2.  If an error with the low limit it would be ER0.  I don't think you are having an issue with either of those sensors if you don't see either of those two errors.    Both sensors are self resetting and don't need to be replaced if they trigger.  The low limit is closed when the stove is hot, and opens when it gets below about 100 degrees (if it's open the stove is too cold to run so it will shutdown).  The high sensor is normally closed all the time but will open at somewhere well over 200 degrees.  If that sensors opens it will also cause an eventual shutdown but the stove will have to stay running long enough to open the low limit - this could take a couple of hours depending upon how hot the stove was when the high limit opened.


Shuts down all blowers while stove is hot as hell (with a pot full of glowing embers) while there is an active flame (not like when the unit needs a good cleaning after a few weeks) and begins to dump smoke in the house.  With the exception of the one time it ran out of pellets, I have never had an error code on this stove. 



> Are you seeing either an ER4 or a flashing display any time prior to the stove error'ing out?  Do you have an insert or a free standing and what does the vent configuration look like (3" or 4" rigid or flex, any angles such as 45's or 90's, both horizontal and vertical lengths, etc...)  It would be helpful to know for sure what software version you do have and your serial number.  Knowing answers to these questions might help me get you going in the right direction.  I am certainly no expert, but I do know a lot about the newer RIKA pellet stoves.


Software version 1.36... No error code.  It is a freestanding - serial number #30384(i'll double check that later).

Thanks

Ed


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 6, 2010)

Ed,

Perhaps you have two broken limit switches or they are loose.

Just make certain the stove is off and unplugged before checking them as there can be 120 volts of good ole shocking 'tricity in use there.


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## sinnian (Jan 6, 2010)

Not that this will solve the problem with the stove (sorry), but if you have adequate draft (read rise) then you should not be getting any smoke in the house unless something is blocked.  Again, this won't help with the stove issues, but you may want to add on to the height to make sure you have a good draft.


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## luckydist (Jan 6, 2010)

Ed,  

one thing you don't mention in your reply is if you see a flashing display before the stove shuts down.  In v1.36 the ER4 code was removed and replaced with a flashing display but the same trigger would cause the flashing.  That trigger is a disruption of airflow.  If the condition occurs, the auger will shut down for up to 2-minutes.  If the condition can be resolved within that time auger feed will resume, if it can't then either an ER3 will occur or the stove will cool down enough to trigger a shutdown.  Regardless of how the shutdown is initiated, the full shut down cycle is 8-minutes long once it starts.  That includes a 1-minute initiation, a 2-minute cleaning, and a 5-minute cool down.    In an ER4 or flashing display condition, the fan will ramp up and sound erratic.  

You didn't describe your vent configuration.  This could be a factor.

Have you tried the calling the importer for help.  They may be able to assist as well.


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## eddyburns (Jan 7, 2010)

> One thing you don't mention in your reply is if you see a flashing display before the stove shuts down.


No flashing display or error codes.



> In v1.36 the ER4 code was removed and replaced with a flashing display but the same trigger would cause the flashing.  That trigger is a disruption of airflow.  If the condition occurs, the auger will shut down for up to 2-minutes.  If the condition can be resolved within that time auger feed will resume, if it can't then either an ER3 will occur or the stove will cool down enough to trigger a shutdown.  Regardless of how the shutdown is initiated, the full shut down cycle is 8-minutes long once it starts.  That includes a 1-minute initiation, a 2-minute cleaning, and a 5-minute cool down.    In an ER4 or flashing display condition, the fan will ramp up and sound erratic.


I cleaned the stovepipe tonight and it was still clean - no backpressure and the leafblower vacuum trick and a lighter revealed air entering the burn chamber through the window airwash and fresh air intake - no leaks around the combustion fan or exhaust.  Does this mean my air intake sensor is messed up *and *the control board is not showing the flashing as an error code?



> You didn't describe your vent configuration.  This could be a factor.


The stove outlets to a 4" duravent pro cleanout T, goes vertical for four feet to a 90, through a concrete wall with 16" horizontal pipe and through a simpson duravent screened cap.



> Have you tried the calling the importer for help.  They may be able to assist as well.


I called the importer... They never heard of anything like what I described and told me to check all of the internal connections, especially to the main board and display (which I did).  Later, the Distributors tech support person told me to call the stove shop and couldn't help with diagnostics.  He seemed surprised that the stove shut itself down hot without error codes.  The importer is closed this week for inventory. (Sidebar - he specifically asked where I bought the stove once I began asking questions)

Question:  Should the convection and combustion blowers increase noticeably as the feed rate is increased, or should the blowers wait until the additional heat is sensed?  I don't remember how it used to run, but now the blowers do not spool up noticeably as feed rate increases, which I thought it used to do... Seems as I increase it from 25% to 75%, there are extremely minor increases in both convection and combustion blowers...

Interesting - yesterday morning the stove malfunctioned after I stirred the burnpot and filled the hopper.  This morning, the stove malfunctioned several seconds after I opened the opper lid to lcheck the pellet level...  ITs odd how minor things that had no impact last winter are causing malfunctions this winter.


Ed 

Thanks!

Ed

Thanks!

Thanks.


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## pelletfan (Jan 9, 2010)

Interesting case you have on your hand 

I'm trying to follow through your story:

You posted this in one of your first posts


> Yesterday, after waiting fifteen (15) days for warranty service to fix the issue, I paid $90 for a service call to adjust hopper lid switch (???).



Now after a lot of different issues we are back again at:



> Interesting - yesterday morning the stove malfunctioned after I stirred the burnpot and filled the hopper.  This morning, the stove malfunctioned several seconds after I opened the hopper lid to check the pellet level…  ITs odd how minor things that had no impact last winter are causing malfunctions this winter.



*If your hooper lid is too long open the stove will shut down, that is by default and normal. - it is not a malfunction. *

Even a short opening of the lid, stops the feeder motor. This is a safety function and good so. When you close the lid again you will hear that the feeder motor starts working again. If not you still have an issue with your lid switch.......

Why do you open the Glass door to stir the burn pot????

Clean your burn pot out once a day after the normal shut down. 
You have then a clean burn pot for the next day and no need at all to stir the pot during the day.
If you have lousy pellets change the self cleaning cycle to a shorter period so the clinker formation is less.

Let's go to next issue: 
Just don't understand why you have the house filled with smoke when the stove shuts down unexpectedly. Are you opening the Glass Door???. 
We have quite a lot of power failures by our power company, that means nothing works but never ever had smoke in my house.
Your draft set up is questionable even though the way you describe the run of your pipes it looks ok.

I know a lot of questions and comments from my side again, but looking forward to help you to solve your issues.


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## eddyburns (Jan 9, 2010)

> Even a short opening of the lid, stops the feeder motor. This is a safety function and good so. When you close the lid again you will hear that the feeder motor starts working again. If not you still have an issue with your lid switch.....


Not anymore...  The switch stopped working this week (no clicking unless I tap it to get it to function)..  I don't see an obstruction or pellet clogging it, but will deal with that later today after a shutdown.



> Why do you open the Glass door to stir the burn pot????
> Clean your burn pot out once a day after the normal shut down.
> You have then a clean burn pot for the next day and no need at all to stir the pot during the day.


Does everyone really shut their stove down every day?  I typically run mine for 2-3 straight days before a shut down, with only a minor scraping of "hard" ash out of the live burnpot ~ this worked fine last winter and this fall.


> If you have lousy pellets change the self cleaning cycle to a shorter period so the clinker formation is less.


I'm burning Okanagans (good pellets) on fuel setting 2 (for lower quality fuel), the cleaning cycle is now 45 minutes rather than the regular 60.



> Just don't understand why you have the house filled with smoke when the stove shuts down unexpectedly. Are you opening the Glass Door???.
> We have quite a lot of power failures by our power company, that means nothing works but never ever had smoke in my house.
> Your draft set up is questionable even though the way you describe the run of your pipes it looks ok.


I have lost power and gotten no smoke in the house during normal operation.  The smoke in the house problem occurred during the following sequence
1. Stove is running "normally" until blowers begin to cycle high-low-humm-high-low-humm...  This is the first sign of trouble.
2. Stove eventually shut down blowers & auger while running (no error codes) until only a few glowing embers remain in the burnpot (no smoke in the house)
3. Stove blowers comes to life at high blower & auger dumping pellets onto the glowing embers (50% operation) until pellets begins to burn/smolder
4. Large quantity of unburned pellets begin to smolder behind the glass - still no smoke in the house.
5. Stove shuts down blowers and auger during heavy smoldering - smoke  seeps through airwash, fresh air intake and out exhaust (see smoke outside).
6. The blowers either resume their high-low-humm sequence or the house smoke alarm goes off & I press the "off" button to begin the shutdown sequence.
7. Stove will restart normally later with only an ashpan and burnpot cleaning. 

I thought this was related to a burnpot clearing or a hopper refill, but not necessarily. The stove shop has apparently contacted the manufacturer's rep to determine what to do next.  The control board reset did not solve the issue.  Two nights ago, this high-low-hum sequence occurred during the cleaning cycle - first time that happened.

Thanks for your interest.
Ed


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## pelletfan (Jan 9, 2010)

so I hope I understand correctly the hooper lid issue is not solved yet.
You do have to get that fixed first. 
Check if the hooper lid sensor is mounted securely without any play. There are two inset screws which have to be tightened with an allen key.

To the cleaning of the burnpot
This is my daily cleaning routine I do on the stove and somehow I personally believe it is best to do so, others may disagree with me.

Your fuel setting 2 takes care of the shorter selfcleaning cycle, thats fine.



> 1. Stove is running “normally” until blowers begin to cycle high-low-humm-high-low-humm…  This is the first sign of trouble


This is interesting. It can happen that it starts to cycle onto a higher level. but will return again to normal after a short while.



> 2. Stove eventually shut down blowers & auger while running (no error codes) until only a few glowing embers remain in the burnpot (no smoke in the house)


Auger should only shut down when stove goes into exit mode or lid is open, I don't like that the blower shuts down too. 
Any comment from dealer????
this is where he should come in to analyze the issue or maybe one of the other forum experts can chip in here in trying to analyze your issue too.


> The blowers either resume their high-low-humm sequence or the house smoke alarm goes off & I press the “off” button to begin the shutdown sequence.


when you say high low humm sequence  - does it mean they are working or you have just the sound of it???


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 9, 2010)

"Not anymore…  The switch stopped working this week (no clicking unless I tap it to get it to function)..  I don’t see an obstruction or pellet clogging it, but will deal with that later today after a shutdown."

Seems like you can't catch a break with that door switch.

Maybe those "imported" switches have a very short MTBF.

Did you check those limit switches as they control both convection fan and the auger, and one of them likely is proof of fire and would shut down things on the combustion side.

Somebody who has had that very situation with those limit switches posted here way back.


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## eddyburns (Jan 9, 2010)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Did you check those limit switches as they control both convection fan and the auger, and one of them likely is proof of fire and would shut down things on the combustion side.



How would I check those switches - I agree that the auto-reset feature can be more of a problem than its worth..  Anyone know what the error codes are for these stoves (and if I would get one for a high-limit shut off)? I think the low temperature shut off is the same thing I got when it ran out of pellets (haven't seen it since)?  

Thanks.


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## jtakeman (Jan 9, 2010)

eddyburns said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Be sure to unplug the stove before playing.

I found the best way to test during operation is to have a  120V light bulb wired acrossed the switch. If it opens you see the bulb go off. Or if it closes the bulb comes on. Depending on what your testing.

Or you could use an DVM. Get yourself a fancy set of clamp on meter leads.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 9, 2010)

eddyburns said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With the stove turned off and unplugged, you can lift one wire from each switch and use a continuity tester or ohm meter.  With the stove off the hi limit should show zero ohms or the continuity tester should indicate via light or sound that the switch is closed.  Taping on that switch should not change the readings, in the case of the low limit switch it will show a very large ohm reading or the continuity tester will not light up or produce a sound, this also should not change if you tap the switch.

If the switches are loose in their mounts they will not be able to properly sense the temperature and may change state (on to off, off to on) as things get jostled in the stove (opening and closing doors, filling the hopper, vibrations from nearby roads .... etc ....) .


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