# omg! honda and toyota screw up? it must be a misprint? (yes it is green room related)



## bruce56bb (Jun 6, 2007)

a little honda mismanagement............
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278090,00.html

some toyota quality issues.......
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1090&scid=82


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## begreen (Jun 6, 2007)

bruce56bb said:
			
		

> a little honda mismanagement............
> http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/AUTO01/705310379/1148
> 
> some toyota quality issues.......
> ...



(yes it is green room related)

How so?


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## BrotherBart (Jun 6, 2007)

The bad camshafts in the Tundra are a safety feature since they did so poorly in crash tests.


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## bruce56bb (Jun 6, 2007)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> bruce56bb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



cancellation of a beloved hybrid makes it legal

bb, you can really make a fella laugh!


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## begreen (Jun 6, 2007)

Maybe the wrong link posted? The only links I see are 2 vehicle issues. Nothing green room about them.


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## restorer (Jun 6, 2007)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Maybe the wrong link posted? The only links I see are 2 vehicle issues. Nothing green room about them.



I agree, the first link is a duplicate of the second link for the Tundra. Looks to me like an Ash Can item.


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## bruce56bb (Jun 6, 2007)

sorry bg, i fixed it.


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## begreen (Jun 6, 2007)

Ah, much better. Actually that's good news. The Accord Hybrid was a total misreading of the market. All that hybrid did was add power to an already adequately powered car. It offered little fuel savings. 

I'm looking forward to the new Honda Hybrids. One may be based on the Fit and sounds like it could be pretty nice. They're also getting to release a super clean diesel engine to the US market.


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## webbie (Jun 6, 2007)

The toyota quality thing in a non-story in my opinion. But the Honda story - I agree with BG. The worst thing being done with Hybrids is to use them to make cars even more powerful, but with only slightly (or none at all) better MPG. 

Martha did get to test drive that Accord hybrid last year when we were looking for a car for our son (a civic), and she said it was ultimate cool, though. Luxury and power. But I would rather see a couple hundred thousand hybrid civics and priuses than a specialty market for hybrid SUV's. If the technology works out in the long run, then I could see moving it all around the fleet, but for now it is quite new and I think there will be economy of scale and also a better gauge of demand by building "green" cars and seeing if we snap them up.

Since most American families have multiple cars, the idea of having one very high mileage model along with another that might suit other needs (older, truck, 4-wheel, etc.) makes sense.


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## wg_bent (Jun 9, 2007)

I'll third the Accord miss on the market.  The Accord performs like it's got a V8.  It's a 6 cylinder already, and My Odyssey has the same engine.  I consider the Odyssey  not only adequate, but a rather fast car.  Adding a hybrid system to it would be a waste.  If adding power is your goal, I think one of the best places for hybrid power is in pickups.  Particularly useful when towing, as electric motors (DC) have 100% torque available all the time, and you only need the additional torque for starting and hills.  The hybrid system could be mated to a 6 cylinder gas or diesel for better mpg than a v8 or v10, and could have different settings with a switch.  One for normal driving where the hybrid system would be tuned similar to a Prius, and the other for towing where the gas engine would be used primarily, but when the gas engine was asked to provide power past a certain torque point, the electric would kick in.  Maybe this is how Chevy does it for their hybrid pickups.... Not really sure.  I'd have to read up on them.

But adding a hybrid system to a honda v6 is just greedy.  Yup... Honda screwed up.  And you got it Craig  a hybrid Fit will be cool.


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## begreen (Jun 9, 2007)

Er, that would be my Fit ;-).

Interesting factoid. In spite of all the naysayers and side chuckles at the early hybrids, at the end of May, there are now over a million of them on the road. Wake up and smell the coffee Detroit.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/06/07/toyota.hybrid.ap/index.html


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## TMonter (Jun 11, 2007)

The accord and the highlander hybrid always made me wonder. Why couple a V6 with a electric drivetrain instead of a small 4-cylinder? It didn't make much sense from a MPG perspective.

I'd love to see a 40+ mpg unibody "suv" that has more room than the traditional sedan. Especially for car seats.


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## velvetfoot (Jun 11, 2007)

I am waiting for the 2008 super clean VW diesels, maybe in a Jetta wagon, maybe in another Bug.


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## webbie (Jun 11, 2007)

An interesting point is the GM and Ford are big in Europe - where the CAFE standard is 37.5 MPG, vastly higher than ours. BTW, China has a new standard for cars which is a good bit higher than US standards as far as MPG. Their future targets are also higher - and, yes, GM and friends are making and selling cars over there.


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## velvetfoot (Jun 11, 2007)

Only because so many diesel cars are sold.


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