# plumbing for washing machine



## iron (Aug 9, 2016)

i am planning to remodel our basement shortly. we would like to move the washer dryer from its current location (shared with a bathroom) to its own room. we would also like to move an exterior door for functionality purposes. if we move the exterior door, we will be effectively eliminating a simple plumbing extension from the current washer drain location to the new washer location as the door will be cutting through where the plumbing line would be.

so, i'm thinking of possibly tying into a drain line coming from the upstairs kitchen.

1. is it possible to do this or is it a code violation?
2. how high can i conceivably extend the washing machine drain line to tie into the plumbing line? i think it'll be about 7' unless i put the W/D on a platform on the floor


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## heat seeker (Aug 9, 2016)

Your washer manual will tell you how high the machine can pump. I think 7' is more than the machine can handle. You could use a tank with an ejector pump to get the height. The machine dumps into the tank, and the tank pump raises the water to the overhead drain.


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 9, 2016)

1. Yes you can tie into the drain from the kitchen. 2" preferred but 1.5" will do.   Will most likely have to wet vent, but that is also acceptable.

2. 4' is usually max for a washing machine.  Don't base lift off your current machine, but an industry standard for future machines.
An effluent pump is probably your best bet.  

So why is the plumbing only coming down 7' from the floor?  Is this a vertical or horizontal kitchen pipe?


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## iron (Aug 10, 2016)

1. is my diagram, below, a proper wet vent? is there any additional p-trap required? at this point in time, i'm not totally sure about where the vent to the roof occurs. i know there's not one by the kitchen sink, and i can't picture one anywhere else along that exterior wall. guess i will find out when i tear off some drywall. 

2. i could see elevating the W/D 2-3 feet off the floor and use a cabinet with sliding drawers underneath. would need to consider this. otherwise, it seems the effluent pump seems like one more hassle. seems to be about $200 + incidentals. obviously, would need to do some research since plumbing is not a strength of mine. 

the existing plumbing i could tie into is about 7' off the basement floor in a chase for a lot of the service for the kitchen (water lines, electrical, etc). hence, there'd be a 7' height difference between new washer and tying into existing kitchen plumbing. does that make sense?


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## heat seeker (Aug 10, 2016)

The washer needs to be on a sturdy surface, since it wants to wobble when spinning. A cabinet would probably not be solid enough, or last very long with the vibrations. Check out the instructions that came with the washer; they no doubt call for a solid surface.


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## iron (Aug 10, 2016)

whatever i build, it'll be sturdy.


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## semipro (Aug 10, 2016)

Our washing machine discharges to drain about 8 ft. above the floor it sits on.  
You can detach your discharge hose and run the washer for a cycle while moving the hose end up and down and running the water into a bucket.  
I share heatseaker's concerns about elevating the washer and potential vibration.


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## Highbeam (Aug 10, 2016)

People put their washers on pedestals all the time. They even sell pedestals for new ones. It only needs to be as sturdy as a regular wood floor. About the worst that could happen is that the washer would shake its way off of the platform and fall!


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## sportbikerider78 (Aug 10, 2016)

I have a platform for my washer and dryer as it straddles existing plumping that I wanted to hide.  I highly recommned building a 2x4 support around where you want the washer to sit. 
Mine is an old crappy one from likely late 80's that has lots of wiggle.  I might even need to reinforce my platform or just strap it down.


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 10, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> People put their washers on pedestals all the time. They even sell pedestals for new ones. It only needs to be as sturdy as a regular wood floor. About the worst that could happen is that the washer would shake its way off of the platform and fall!


Agreed. If you build the platform like a floor and screw/nail it to adjoining walls & floor it will be plenty sturdy.

A curb would not be a bad idea. Heck it could be made into a drip pan like a shower  and drain into the sump pump, if that's the route you go.


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## Highbeam (Aug 10, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> Agreed. If you build the platform like a floor and screw/nail it to adjoining walls & floor it will be plenty sturdy.
> 
> A curb would not be a bad idea. Heck it could be made into a drip pan like a shower  and drain into the sump pump, if that's the route you go.



To keep the washer from sliding off the pedestal you only need a very low curb. Think a piece of baseboard trim nailed to the top surface.

Front loaders are notoriously leaky. Slow leaks, drips while spinning, or even overflows when the poorly designed fill tube is blocked by a sock. I placed my front loader in a catch pan with no drain. The various leaks pool occasionally but the evaporation rate exceeds the leak rate.


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## iron (Aug 10, 2016)

hmm. in our previous place, we had a 2006 year front load with zero issues for 8 years. in our current place, the front load must be 2000 vintage and has no leaks.


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## heat seeker (Aug 10, 2016)

Same here - we are on our second front loader, total of 16 years, not one leak.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 11, 2016)

Front loader washer here for a number of years . . . no issues as well.

Also it's up on a free-standing pedestal that I built using scrap 2 x 4s and boards. Not my finest carpentry work, but it's rugged and does the job. I didn't put a lip on it . . . there is very little movement of the washer . . . at least it hasn't moved much in the many number of years it has been up there and it most certainly has not fallen over.


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## Highbeam (Aug 11, 2016)

iron said:


> hmm. in our previous place, we had a 2006 year front load with zero issues for 8 years. in our current place, the front load must be 2000 vintage and has no leaks.



Good for you, but search the interwebs if you must. They are ticking timebombs.

I'm not a fan of icemakers either. Or more specifically, the hokey pierce type taps used to get water from the house plumbing.


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## iron (Aug 11, 2016)

anyway, is the wet vent sketch i drew more or less correct?


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## Highbeam (Aug 11, 2016)

iron said:


> anyway, is the wet vent sketch i drew more or less correct?



I think you need a P trap. Without it, sewer gasses will leak out. Every laundry drain I've seen in the walls is equipped with a trap.


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 11, 2016)

iron said:


> anyway, is the wet vent sketch i drew more or less correct?


x2 on needing a trap.  Check my sketch. How far is it to the vent?
	

		
			
		

		
	




If it's a long distance do it like example #2





iron said:


> anyway, is the wet vent sketch i drew more or less correct?


x2 on needing a trap.  Check my sketch. How far is it to the vent?
	

		
			
		

		
	




If it's a long distance do it like example #2



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## iron (Aug 11, 2016)

thanks for the sketch.

not sure what the distance is to the vent yet. i looked at my roof last night and saw a vent that seemed plausible for the basement bathroom. if it's actually the right vent, i suspect the distance would be around 10ft from washer to junction with vertical vent to roof.


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 11, 2016)

Another way to do it.
	

		
			
		

		
	




This is a true "wet vent"  The trap is being vented by a pipe that has water that flows down it, thusly it's wet.  

Another way to do it would be substitute all the vent work and put in an air admittance valve.  This method is sometimes the easiest but least desirable because the AAV can fail over time as a pipe will not fail.




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## semipro (Aug 12, 2016)

Just FYI air admittance valves are not accepted by some local codes.
Also, if you do use one it has to be accessible for checking and service. 
Yet, it may be your best option give that your horizontal distance to a vent is 10 ft.  That seems to be pushing it.


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 13, 2016)

Didn't know AAVs weren't up to code in some locations.  I find that odd.





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## iron (Aug 29, 2016)

got the walls opened up a bit more. it looks like i have a good opportunity to connect to the drain line. see pics.

on the right side of the wall (where the drain penetrates the wall) is the current location of the W/D. the washer has a drain access hole about 3ft above the slab. i presume (haven't opened up those walls yet) that it just straight T's into the drain line seen in this pic.

any updated thoughts? do i have issues with this setup? what should all my connections look like? thanks!


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 29, 2016)

If that horizontal run is 5'ish(looks like 4' based on studs) or less I don't think you will need a vent with 2" pipe.  If it's longer I would vent or use 3"

This is way easier than the previous ideas.

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## iron (Aug 29, 2016)

that's good news. let's say there is a washer 6' from the junction with the old pipe and i am putting in a sink between the washer and junction. anything different i need to do? if i use 3" pipe, i should be good to go sans vent?


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 29, 2016)

iron said:


> that's good news. let's say there is a washer 6' from the junction with the old pipe and i am putting in a sink between the washer and junction. anything different i need to do? if i use 3" pipe, i should be good to go sans vent?


.  I'm sure there are some codes for run without vents but I'm unsure of what the actual code is.  That being said with a 6' run with a sink and washer I would do 2" with a vent.

2" is code for a washer and it's very little cost increase in doing the vent. Something like an extra:
*3x3x1-1/2 wye, 
*Stick of 1-1/2"
*2x2x1-1/,x2x1 wye
*1-1/2 45 elbow
* 1-1/2 90 elbow.

It's cheap & easy to put the vent in now and know that it will work.

This is just my opinion. Do it once, do it right.

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## iron (Aug 29, 2016)

i haven't yet opened up the wall where the washer is currently located. i'm sure there's a vent coming off of that, however. 

if i just connect to the existing line, with the vent downstream of my new tie in by ~10-15ft, will that be okay? i know little about plumbing requirements...


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## Buzz Saw (Aug 29, 2016)

I would do it something like this




Basically the vent runs parallel with the drain.  It ties into the same vertical section of the existing drain.  Put the vent wye in between the sink and washer and everything will drain well. 
It's very little extra cost and maybe another 30 minutes of time.

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## iron (Aug 30, 2016)

awesome, thanks!


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## iron (Sep 29, 2016)

question: i was reading more about distances from from a p-trap to a vent based on pipe diameter. could you clarify something: is the horizontal distance to the vent simply from p-trap to the first vertical rise in the vent, or is it to the location where the vertical vent comes out of the roof? for me, it looks like the nearest line going out the roof is at least 12ft away and is 1.5" pipe. so, no good there if the interpretation of distance to the vent is the second one i listed.

thoughts? hopefully i'm clear enough in my description.


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 29, 2016)

I would say first vertical rise.

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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 29, 2016)

Just a heads up....abs is what you have there and many places do not carry it anymore.  You can go from black abs to pvc without issue, but you need a rubber/hose clamp adapter. 

For a vent, I'm sure bonding abs to pvc is no big deal.  But if it going to get wet constantly, I'd make sure to use the right hardware. 

I ran into this with my bathroom remodel.  Had about 3 places where the old abs had to transition to the new pvc.  I couldn't find one hardware store in 100 miles that carried abs.


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 29, 2016)

FWIW Home Depot & Menard's carry ABS down here in Ohio.

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## iron (Sep 29, 2016)

yes, all my nearby HD's carry ABS. i've used it on other remodels so far (hopefully without incident!)


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## Highbeam (Sep 29, 2016)

All ABS here too. Stores are full of it. Weird, must be a NY thing?


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## Lake Girl (Sep 29, 2016)

ABS is the more common pipe used here also.  Just looked for pros and cons of each.  Longevity about the same but abs is apparently more forgiving in connecting.


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## iron (Sep 30, 2016)

after doing some more reading, i agree with the first vertical rise being the location for the vent. therefore, i'll have no issues with that and will simply tie into the old vent for the washer.

next question: i have copper pipe in the house. i don't care if i run copper or PEX down to the washer, but curious if there are any benefits to one vs the other. i don't mind the extra work the copper will take, so we can ignore that. would PEX be less prone to hammering?


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## PWash (Sep 30, 2016)

water hammer is the buildup of water pressure when a valve closes fast and this initial pressure buildup doesnt care which pipe material you have.  however, pex will tend to dissipate water hammer's pressure buildup because it can expand more than copper. but really water hammer should be arrested with air pockets or spring loaded bladder devices.  I used both at my washer installation, but i used  pex only because it is so easy!


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## semipro (Sep 30, 2016)

PEX is more forgiving of freezing but light deteriorates it.  There have been some reports of mice chewing on it. 
I'm good at working with copper but its hard to match the ease of working with PEX.


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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 30, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> All ABS here too. Stores are full of it. Weird, must be a NY thing?


Very strange.  Must be.  

I called a few places and they talked about abs burning more quickly and releasing very toxic fumes vs pvc.  I can't imagine either of them burning is a walk in the park.


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## Highbeam (Sep 30, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> Very strange.  Must be.
> 
> I called a few places and they talked about abs burning more quickly and releasing very toxic fumes vs pvc.  I can't imagine either of them burning is a walk in the park.



Also, PVC turns to crap in sunlight so the part sticking up above your roofline will not only look dumb being white but will also break apart eventually.


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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 30, 2016)

Interesting.  I didn't know it degrades with UV.


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 30, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> Also, PVC turns to crap in sunlight so the part sticking up above your roofline will not only look dumb being white but will also break apart eventually.


Yup, I've used pvc conduit above the roofline or a fernco and switched to ABS.

Another thing about ABS is it seems that the fitting selection isn't as big as PVC.  PVC has everything and ABS is limited or very basic.

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## iron (Dec 8, 2016)

okay. i've rerouted my water lines to avoid having a drop-ceiling/soffit along the edge of the wall. i'm ready to cut the old drain and vent line, but want to double check things with the pros.

the drain from my kitchen sink (from the floor above) is on the left in the first picture. i plan to tie in a new washer drain line to that. this existing drain goes into the slab then runs to where the old washer drain tied in. at the old washer drain, a vent takes off into the attic. i eventually plan to tie back into this vent with the new washer vent.

my question is: is it safe to cut the old vent directly above the slab (with enough room to put on an ABS cap piece) and still have adequate performance of the existing drain? the existing drain has a vent right at the kitchen sink so i believe it to be vented well enough. seems like in both cases i have 1 drain for 2 elements (sink and washer) with 2 vents, just with the vents in different locations compared to the original.

thanks


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## AllenWalker (Dec 30, 2016)

You should check the new filter of the machine, since sometimes it also causes some issues. I used to clean its filter every week now it is function properly otherwise their were some plumbing I had to tackle early.


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## moey (Dec 31, 2016)

Replace that dryer vent pipe while its all apart with a solid pipe your dryer will thank you.


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