# PE Alderlea T5 (continued, first full season, page3.)



## Woody Stover (Apr 17, 2019)

It's not _my_ stove, it's my SIL's, but I procured it, installed it, got the wood for it, and I'm the only one who's burned in it so far, so I will do the report. 




My neighbor went with me to get the stove, about a 2-hr. drive. We got there, and I saw the stove had been left out in a short, light rain that I saw on the radar. A little rain got through the plastic wrap on the stove...not a big deal, but c'mon. Then my buddy saw a chip in the enamel on the bottom front of the ash lip and a cracked, pushed-in board on the front of the crate. Pretty obvious that someone was moving it with a forklift and bumped into something. The stove shop guy said "There might be touch-up paint in the stove, but I'll order you some just in case." At that point, I should have realized they weren't being up front with me, and pulled up the plastic all around and closely inspected it. If it was warehouse damage, the stove shop should have caught it when they received it from the shipper...I'm pretty sure they inspect everything they get. Yet it went unmentioned. I will bring that kind of stuff to the attention of someone I'm dealing with, but there are a lot of shady characters out there, as we all know. But wait, there's more. Here's the stuff I found when I got the stove out of the crate; Bent handle, possibly from the same front impact incident that chipped the ash lip, and what looks like a couple angle grinder marks on the bottom right side.That may have been caused when the office hottie came through the plant, and the guy turned to watch her walk away, forgetting that he was holding a live grinder.  What would you do, where I stand now, given that I didn't do due diligence before taking the stove? I didn't want to return it, but I could have gotten a price reduction, maybe, if I'd been thinking instead of drooling.  I think I was dealing with the head installer, but I have another guy's name that left me a message when they got the stove in...not sure if he's sales, owner, or what.
The enamel chip on the front bottom of the ash lip is barely visible in the handle pic, but way more noticeable than the side nicks, which are barely through the enamel...pic didn't turn out for some reason...I'll add it later. It's about 1.5" long.




Now, let's move in a more positive direction and focus on the wood-burning fun! 
First fire was just four medium-small splits, so I could see how the stove would react before committing to a fuller firebox.


Other owners are right on in their assessments; This stove is an easy breather. I'm able to start loads on a cold 15' chimney when it's in the upper 50s out (second day fire,) and still get zero smoke roll-out when I open the door.  The smoke plate at the top of the door opening really does the job.
I just took 'er up to about 400 stove top temp the first day to begin the paint-cure process. Plenty of control over the air at 42 degrees outside. 0 degrees will be a different story of course, and I may install a second flue damper if we need more control on cold days.
On to the next day and the second fire, with Red Elm and Red Mulberry dead-standers that I harvested within the last couple weeks behind her house.


It was almost 60 out so with the weaker draft, I was able to cut the air and pretty much kill active flame on the load, even though a lot of wood was gassing.
You'll notice here that I got good secondary action on the left side of the baffle, but very little on the right side. I don't think there's a ceramic blanket on top of the baffle, so there should be nothing out of place up there that would impede secondary air flow through that side of the baffle. Not sure what is going on there; Maybe the baffle gasket has a gap on the right side, so it's pulling oxygen-depleted air from the firebox up into the right side of the baffle, therefore no secondary action on the right side of the baffle?
In these pics, you can see a slight gap between the rear bottom edge of the baffle and the rear rail, and I could see flame shooting out of there at one point. Looked like flame _behind_ that gap between the baffle and rail at the back of the baffle, as well. I'll take the baffle out tomorrow and have a look. I may seal that gap with a flat gasket, or some interam gasket that would seal the gap. And I'll look at the baffle gasket.
There's also some insulation that you can see at the front sides of the baffle, that extends down the sides and (I think) the back of the baffle. I tried to  make sure that was seated well, but couldn't really get at it too well through the flue exit, before I attached the connector pipe. Maybe I can check it from inside the firebox?




I controlled the stove top temp up and down between 500 and 600 on this burn and cured the paint in pretty well. I have the meter on top of the steel box, just forward of the flue exit, but can still see it with a small flashlight through the openings in the swing-away cast iron top. Nice. 
So far, so good, now let's see if I can get some of these anomalies ironed out. 
Right now, I gotta go into the woods and find more dry fuel to feed this baby...behind on dry wood for three SIL stoves.  Some would say I should cut the grass but I don't have time for that kind of foolishness.


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## Hogwildz (Apr 17, 2019)

In regards to the cosmetic issues, that is something you'll have to decide it you can live with or not. Touch up paint in those areas will probably do fine. The handle looks like it was hit or bumped and the wood handle is cocked on the steel shaft. I can see the wood is cracked. I would push for  a new handle assy. Not that hard to replace.

Now on to the performance questions:

"You'll notice here that I got good secondary action on the left side of the baffle, but very little on the right side. I don't think there's a ceramic blanket on top of the baffle, so there should be nothing out of place up there that would impede secondary air flow through that side of the baffle."
If is is same as the Summit, which I think all PEs are same baffle design, just different sizes...there is a baffle board on top of the baffle, it won't impede draft unless it is somehow pushed up, hard to imagine that. Easy to pop the pipe off the outlet and look inside the outlet. 
The secondaries burn what nasties are off gassing off the splits. If they are not showing on one side or the other, that merely means those splits are not offgassing yet, they will come further on during the burn when those splits are flaming & offgasing.

The side baffle gaskets look as they should, and yes they run all the way from front to back along the baffle sides.

The gap you see in the back of the baffle is actually a "bend rolled under edge flap", and actually has secondary jets inside there. so you will see a fan of secondary flames coming from there while the splits are offgasing, this again is normal. No need to pull the baffle.

The only operational fix I see needed, is replacing the handle assy.

Nice stove.


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## begreen (Apr 17, 2019)

It's a bummer that the stove arrived with those minor damages. The dealer needs to come through with replacement parts or financial compensation. The ashlip part number for brown majolica is ALT5.P4713MBA. The door handle is ALDR.50380GL.

I agree with Hogwildz. The interior looks ok. Load the stove up and assume it is ok inside. Learn from the burn.


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## mar13 (Apr 17, 2019)

I hope to give a similar report around Memorial Day on a T5- plenty of cold maritime foggy days around here to justify summer burns. I'm still apprehensive about enamel. I'd like the first chips to be due to my (or kids') foolishness rather than by strangers.


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## begreen (Apr 17, 2019)

We were lucky to get our T6 from Tom in Bellingham. It was 90 miles away, but I knew we were in good hands and if there was an issue he would take care of it. As it turned out there were none, but having a responsible and responsive dealer makes a big difference for my peace of mind.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 17, 2019)

Hogwildz said:


> In regards to the cosmetic issues, that is something you'll have to decide it you can live with or not. Touch up paint in those areas will probably do fine. The handle looks like it was hit or bumped and the wood handle is cocked on the steel shaft. I can see the wood is cracked. I would push for  a new handle assy.


The handle seems to work fine. Hard to believe that thick round stock would bend, unless he really rammed the stove hard. I'm guessing maybe the handle is threaded on, and all I need it a new handle. I haven't looked at it closely yet, though. I'll do that and report back.
The guy told me "I think there's paint in the bag with the other stuff, but just in case I will have more mailed to you. Nothing yet, and it's been a couple weeks...


> Easy to pop the pipe off the outlet and look inside the outlet.
> The secondaries burn what nasties are off gassing off the splits. If they are not showing on one side or the other, that merely means those splits are not offgassing yet, they will come further on during the burn when those splits are flaming & offgasing.


I _think_ the load was burning more on the right side, and the secondaries were on the left, and the pic would seem to confirm that. That's what had me "baffled." I can't swear to it though. I'll do as begreen suggested...burn and learn. 
Unfortunately it's not too easy for me to pull the pipe and look into the outlet. The stove is almost the identical height to the Dutchwest she had in there, so I re-used the pipe, but I had to take off the back legs and drop the stove to get the flue collar under the bottom of the pipe. Not _too_ big a deal, though. Before I put the pipe on, I was trying to reach down through the flue collar to the baffle side-insulation to make sure it was in place, and also used a mirror and flashlight to look. Nothing seemed to be sticking up, but thought I'd ask in case there was something I was missing.[/QUOTE] 





> The gap you see in the back of the baffle is actually a "bend rolled under edge flap", and actually has secondary jets inside there. so you will see a fan of secondary flames coming from there while the splits are offgasing, this again is normal. No need to pull the baffle.


Ah, OK. I really didn't want to pull the baffle, because I think I could conceivably need another baffle gasket, if they are as fragile as I've been hearing. Or I would have to violate patent law and fab up a pirate version of the "Hogwildz Donut."


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## Woody Stover (Apr 17, 2019)

begreen said:


> Learn from the burn.





mar13 said:


> I hope to give a similar report around Memorial Day on a T5- plenty of cold maritime foggy days around here to justify summer burns.


This is one of the few times that I'd welcome some cold weather. There's a couple of cool nights coming, 45 and 40, but after that, who knows? Of course, if this thing breathes OK when it's 60 out, I may not be done as soon as I thought.  She will pretty quickly tire of me hanging around and playing with her stove, though.  I'll be looking forward to burning vicariously by reading your reports. 


> I'm still apprehensive about enamel. I'd like the first chips to be due to my (or kids') foolishness rather than by strangers.


Yeah, if it was my job to move around stoves, I'd be thinking "This is a $3000 unit...maybe I should be careful."


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## webby3650 (Apr 18, 2019)

Where did the stove come from? Have you told them about the damage?


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

My buddy saw the chip on the ash lip, so the guy knew about that for sure. I have a feeling he knew about the door handle, too, if they inspected the stove when the shipper brought it. I think I was dealing with the installer/loader guys, not the boss, but I will contact him.


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## webby3650 (Apr 18, 2019)

Sometimes a bunch of stoves are delivered at the same time, it’s possible to miss damage on occasion. I’d be surprised if they didn’t look it over before you picked it up though. I’ve probably got some touch up around here somewhere if you have trouble getting some.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 18, 2019)

begreen said:


> We were lucky to get our T6 from Tom in Bellingham. It was 90 miles away, but I knew we were in good hands and if there was an issue he would take care of it. As it turned out there were none, but having a responsible and responsive dealer makes a big difference for my peace of mind.



Dealers mean everything for a product that isn't made locally. Never has this meant anything to me until being a homeowner.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 18, 2019)

That's a handsome stove. Enamel is a fickle mistress.

I assume it is humanly possible to handle an enameled cast iron object without chipping it, but in my relatively short lifetime it has not been possible. For me enameled items are beautiful and much easier to clean, but terrifying as well. I am currently staring at a chip in a beautiful hand made enameled cast iron diffuser. I don't think I even put it on the stove before I chipped it.


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## begreen (Apr 18, 2019)

It is very possible to handle, install and run an enamel stove without chipping, just the same as it is possible with a kitchen cook stove. But it does take care in handling and respect. Our 1984 or so Jotul 602 is still relatively chip free and the chips on it are small, from hitting an edge with a stove tool.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

begreen said:


> We were lucky to get our T6 from Tom in Bellingham. It was 90 miles away, but I knew we were in good hands and if there was an issue he would take care of it.


I communicated with Tom, and was impressed that he took the time to answer some questions I had. I would have ordered from him if he'd had this model in stock, since he has an April half-price shipping sale.


SpaceBus said:


> I assume it is humanly possible to handle an enameled cast iron object without chipping it


Yeah, I've been upbraiding the 'hacks' but when I put the door back on, I heard a grinding sound that was most unpleasant, and there's a chip in the area near the bottom hinge. In my defense, I has someone holding a flashlight, and couldn't see as well as I would have liked...and that door is one heavy mutha, and hard to control!  I'm banking on the touch-up paint to "illusion it," as my nephew says about carpentry work.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

What do you guys use to lube the door hinges, trivet hinges and door latch roller? It appears that they greased them at the plant, but when the time comes, could I use B'laster Dry Lube PTFE or graphite spray, and not have to remove the door and trivets to apply grease?
The door latch mechanism seems to make a solid seal, with the gasket pressing against the flat front wall of the box, like the Buck 91 does. I didn't do the dollar-bill test, I will next time I'm over there. The website mentions a "knife-edge" door gasket seal...I guess that is on  the steel-box-only models.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

I've seen the door latch mechanism mentioned as a trouble spot on these stove. Is that from lack of lube maintenance causing wear, or what?


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

webby3650 said:


> I’ve probably got some touch up around here somewhere if you have trouble getting some.


Thanks, web-ster, I'll keep that in mind.  The most noticeable chip, on the ash lip, is visible in the first pic in my first post.


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## begreen (Apr 18, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> What do you guys use to lube the door hinges, trivet hinges and door latch roller? It appears that they greased them at the plant, but when the time comes, could I use B'laster Dry Lube PTFE or graphite spray, and not have to remove the door and trivets to apply grease?


*NADA. *I haven't done anything in 10 years of service.


Woody Stover said:


> I've seen the door latch mechanism mentioned as a trouble spot on these stove. Is that from lack of lube maintenance causing wear, or what?


Trouble spot? Can you post a link? I have commented that I thought the latching mechanism used on Enviro's and Jotuls is nicer, but the PE latch is sufficient. Our latch is still working fine. It's simple, but that is part of the design philosophy of the stove. Not sure if this latch design has changed on the new Alderleas.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

begreen said:


> Trouble spot? Can you post a link? I have commented that I thought the latching mechanism used on Enviro's and Jotuls is nicer, but the PE latch is sufficient. Our latch is still working fine. It's simple, but that is part of the design philosophy of the stove.


OK, maybe that's what I'm recalling. What do you like better about the Enviro and Jotul; I really like the cam-down action of the PE, although bending the plate-steel latch catch on the stove body to adjust door tension leaves something to be desired. Should be fine, though...
I like "simple," and that was a big reason I went with this stove for her.  Now if I can just find an easy, efficient way to use the ash dump...that's the other part of "simple" operation. There's no way she's gonna want to shovel ash out, trying to contain dust and all that jazz. She's gotten her fill of that from when she has to run her sister's Fireview. However, with the way the stove drafts, even in warm weather, I'm sure that I could shovel cleanly and with minimal dust. Not that I would ever _want_ to do that...


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

If I want to make a "Hogwildz Donut," what size rope gasket do you use? I would think the same size that you guys use would work on the T5 but I'm not sure, construction of the baffle and air feed may differ between it and the T6/Summit...


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## Hogwildz (Apr 18, 2019)

I think it was 3/8" if I remember correctly. The factory ones suck, so if you stick with them, order a lot of 3 or 5 from Tom. You may have the new style baffle gasket which has wings on each side of the donut to each end of the baffle towards the stove sides. Not sure what good they are, as the gasket pretty much disintegrates in a season, unless you never touch or move the baffle at all. I have been experimenting with some thin high temp ceramic blanket I got online, but it only last a couple years at best. I'll find something last lasts 5+ years, then be happy. When I get it narrowed down, I'll let everyone know. Maybe a little ebay niche there, who knows.

I think the back of the baffles are all the same with the exception of width. The air channel & baffle hole over it should all be the same. I'm pretty sure one gasket fits all, except for the ones with the wings, just shorter wings on each side.


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## Hogwildz (Apr 18, 2019)

Here's the Hog gasket vs the new OEM style. I have been making new style with the ceramic blanket, just need to find a sturdier blanket material. The home made lasts 5+ years that I had it in use.


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## webby3650 (Apr 18, 2019)

I hope you didn’t get that stove from that guy over in ellettsville, if you did you’re probably SOL on any refund/discount or help of any kind.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 18, 2019)

webby3650 said:


> I hope you didn’t get that stove from that guy over in ellettsville, if you did you’re probably SOL on any refund/discount or help of any kind.


I saw that place when I was looking for dealers, but this guy is in Louisville. It was closer to the warehouse.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 20, 2019)

Hogwildz said:


> new style baffle gasket which has wings on each side of the donut to each end of the baffle towards the stove sides. Not sure what good they are, as the gasket pretty much disintegrates in a season, unless you never touch or move the baffle at all. I have been experimenting with some thin high temp ceramic blanket I got online, but it only last a couple years at best. I'll find something last lasts 5+ years, then be happy. When I get it narrowed down, I'll let everyone know. Maybe a little ebay niche there, who knows.
> I think the back of the baffles are all the same with the exception of width. The air channel & baffle hole over it should all be the same. I'm pretty sure one gasket fits all, except for the ones with the wings, just shorter wings on each side.


Well, I couldn't resist, I had to drop the secondary baffle to have a look.  You can't really see the top of the insulation in this pic but the insulation strips you mentioned, sealing the baffle to the sides of the box and forcing the smoke forward around the front of the baffle, the left side was not seated to the bottom of the baffle. You can see the insulation on the right side, all the way to the bottom of the baffle/brick rail. On the left side at the back, the insulation was pulled up out of the gap at the back. That was allowing a "path of least resistance" for the smoke, through the insulation gap at the bottom of the rail, directly to the flue exit. That apparently was causing more air to pull through the left side of the baffle, resulting in what I saw previously; Strong secondary burn on the left and nothing from the right side of the baffle. With that problem fixed, I'm seeing a strong secondary burn all the way across the front of the baffle.


Yesterday afternoon, I crammed in a full load. I soon regretted putting a couple smaller splits in, as the stove top before long went to 600+. 
The lowest burn with the air cut all the way is still too vigorous,  seems to me. I think I should be able to run a lot "lazier" flame in the box and still burn clean. Less wood burned per hr. is always better.  Trying to figure how to post a video I took with phone but you can kinda tell from the pic how hot this thing is burning.
I'm going over there to load up again,; Another 40* night, might be curtains for the burning season after that. I'm thinking I have a couple options for easy air restriction tonight; Drop a bolt into the boost air feed, or cut a small piece of flashing to cover the  part of the remaining open hole at the primary air minimum setting. Later I might add another flue damper.
How low STT are you guys able to burn, and keep 'er clean?
Last night's crammage. 
The pipe meter is about 13" above the flue collar, and the top of the silver range is 475...blowing too much heat out the flue, the way the stove runs now on minimum air.





I loaded three more splits on top of a huge coal bed at 10 PM last night, and had to convince myself that it wasn't going any higher than the 650 it was at, before I left. She woke up later, checked, and said it was below 650, so all good.


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## begreen (Apr 20, 2019)

Resist the urge to tinker with the stove. Tinker with the tinkerer instead. 600-700º is where the stove likes to cruise. Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter. But leave the stove air supply alone. If you really want it to run cooler start a smaller fire and every few hours drop on a couple splits. You don't have enough fires left this season to learn how to run the stove well. It is quite different from the Keystone. Give it time and relearn the burn.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 21, 2019)

I didn't end up doing any tweaks this time but I wanted to have a couple in reserve in case I needed 'em. I didn't particularly care for the stove running 650+ last night when I wanted to leave, and the air was already cut all the way. Tonight, I only loaded five medium-small splits so there would be less wood gassing. It also isn't as cold out yet tonight, and the wind is down, so the chimney didn't seem to be pulling as hard. Should still be enough heat to keep her furnace off.
Tonight I had the air open around 1/4, STT was a little over 400, flue magnetic was maybe 270. Plume wasn't quite clean, so before I left it in her hands, I opened the air just a smidgen more, fire picked up slightly, both meters started to creep up slightly, and the plume seemed to be cleaner. She was going to be up for another half-hour, and make an adjustment down if it seemed to be taking off, but I doubt it with that load, and draft the conditions.
That's why I asked how low you guys are able to run cleanly (when you have a full load in the stove.) It would be nice to have some control over the stove and be able to burn a load faster or slower. Is that going to be my extent of control, 600-700 when fully loaded, and eating through that load at a pretty good clip from what I saw, or else throwing on a few splits every so often?
I thought I read you saying that you could run at 400, with flue in the lower 300s probe reading. I have the surface meter at 13" and when I had the full load yesterday churning away with the stove at 650 and flue _surface_ in the low 400s, I couldn't help but think I was blowing a lot of heat out of the stack. And that was at 40* out. What happens when it drops to zero? Methinks I may be needing more control at some point.
I'll definitely make her more big splits as I'm setting her up for next season. I've already .got about half her wood, and I left a lot in rounds.
You're right, learning for me is about over until next fall, if weather is normal from here on out. And most here that might comment have gone on summer vacation...luckily for me, you and Hog are diehards. 
I'll see about getting that video up tomorrow, and see if you think it's burning harder than what you are calling "lazy flames."
Here's the junior load I burned this evening, so my shorts would stay clean.


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## Hogwildz (Apr 21, 2019)

Larger splits for longer, slower burns. Less fuel for less needed heat. If you fill her, she will eat, but if you pack it tight, it will last a long time. Smaller splits with more air space left between them will burn hot. Packem tight. They do like to cruise between 600 and 700. Once the nasties burn off, it will stabilize and cruise, then slowly lower in temps as the load burns down. Shoulder season is a fire or two a day, just put 4 mediums in and let her be. If you can, always turn the air as low as you can, many of us go all the way low. You can cut it back sooner to keep the temps down and cruise lower also. I wouldn't leave it 1/4 open if you don't need it.


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## Highbeam (Apr 21, 2019)

I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove. This is the trade off when running without a cat. You won’t have to replace a cat every few years and that flame show sure is pretty. 

Just remember pulse and glide. The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide. 

Also, once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down. Like all modern stoves, keep your gaskets tight and draft within specs.


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove. This is the trade off when running without a cat. You won’t have to replace a cat every few years and that flame show sure is pretty.
> 
> Just remember pulse and glide. The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide.
> 
> Also, once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down. Like all modern stoves, keep your gaskets tight and draft within specs.


Exactly right. If you want less heat, do a smaller pulse. The advantage of cast-iron clad stoves like the Alderlea is that the intense heat is buffered, similar to a soapstone stove. That helps keep a more even temp in the room and house. It continues to release this heat after the fire has died down.


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## webby3650 (Apr 21, 2019)

I’ve always enjoyed having both a cat and non cat. I can get my fill of the big heat fire show, but have a cat stove chugging away in the main part of the house. They both have their advantages, but I really appreciate the almost instant turn down response of a cat stove.


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## Highbeam (Apr 21, 2019)

I have both types (cat and noncat) and have had both types on my current hearth. They are different for sure but both are fully capable of doing the job. I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.

Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.

And like bg said, thermal mass is quite helpful in absorbing some of the peak and smoothing our the curve. Lots of steel, cast, or even (ugh) soapstone can only help.


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## webby3650 (Apr 21, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> I have both types (cat and noncat) and have had both types on my current hearth. They are different for sure but both are fully capable of doing the job. I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.
> 
> Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.


While I’ve never ran a PE, I have been impressed every time I’ve broke one down to clean it.


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## Woody5506 (Apr 22, 2019)

I find the T5 pretty dang easy to operate, but what do I have to compare to? well, not much other than a couple smoke dragons I've been around. Anyway, that's a pretty full load you packed there and typical of what I'd do for a dead of winter overnight burn. Usually I'll load it like that at least an hour before bed, let it get up to speed while I watch tv or whatever, cutting the air down as needed, and before I head up just shut it all the way down. Usually I'm reloading the next morning to a stove top temp of around 250-300. Often, my stove top thermometer (same as yours) is in the red (700+) before I shut down for the night but flue temps in the probe's optimal zone. Seems like a lot but they don't mind being run hot and in my case it works out well for where I need all the heat. It took me kind of a while to get comfortable burning full loads like that and shutting down for the night. 


Nice looking enamel on there too, kinda makes me wish I got that. Too bad about the chips, looks like someone was careless with a forklift.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 22, 2019)

begreen said:


> 600-700º is where the stove likes to cruise. Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter.





Highbeam said:


> Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.





Hogwildz said:


> Larger splits for longer, slower burns...If you fill her, she will eat, but if you pack it tight, it will last a long time...They do like to cruise between 600 and 700. Once the nasties burn off, it will stabilize and cruise, then slowly lower in temps as the load burns down...always turn the air as low as you can, many of us go all the way low. You can cut it back sooner to keep the temps down and cruise lower also. I wouldn't leave it 1/4 open if you don't need it.





Highbeam said:


> I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove...The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide...once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down.


That's one thing I didn't know yet, that it would start to "plane off" above 650; When it passed 650 I wondered "Yikes, will I be zooming past 700 here in a few minutes??" I didn't want that. 
With the load I had in there, it eventually reduced to a big load of coals, and there was still a decent amount the next morning. I told her she could just open up the air a bit if needed, and ride that coal heat for a long time.
Yep, I'll be making big splits and rounds for her to load. Although the big load looks in the pic like it has a lot of air space between splits, I tried to make it as tight as I could. There were several small splits in the load though, so not as tight as it would be with fewer but bigger splits.
I only had the air 1/4 open on that small, four-split load...


Hogwildz said:


> Here's the Hog gasket vs the new OEM style. I have been making new style with the ceramic blanket, just need to find a sturdier blanket material. The home made lasts 5+ years that I had it in use.


When I took the baffle out, there was just a rectangular gasket to seal the air channel to the baffle, no "ears" on the gasket. I'm wondering if I can just get some wide interam gasket and cut several gaskets out of it. Also, with the side baffle insulation back in place, and the stove breathing correctly, there was a little secondary action shooting out of the gap in the back, small flame all the way across.


Highbeam said:


> I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.


I could tell that with fire, or just coals, this stove is dealing quite a bit more heat than the little Dutchwest was. That stove was still leaky though, even after I tried to tighten it up with cement, so some heat was wasted up the flue, I'm sure. Looking forward to not having leaky cement seams to repair...


webby3650 said:


> While I’ve never ran a PE, I have been impressed every time I’ve broke one down to clean it.


This is the old version of the T5, where the secondary air is linked to the primary with a steel rod. I went with the proven long burn, but don't know if I would be better off with the new version with the "automated" EBT2. Seems like on the new one, maybe you could run the primary lower, but the secondary would open up to clean up the burn. Their description of the EBT2 says it responds to draft, but I don't really understand how that would work...
Yeah, webby, when I saw the exploded parts diagram, I couldn't believe how simple it was. Plus 304 stainless baffle and brick/baffle rails. Baffle is simple to remove, albeit a bit heavy. I like the idea of the "floating firebox" construction as well.
I'd still like to hear how low other users are able to burn while still keeping the plume clean. If we have to cruise it up around 600 to be clean, so be it.


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## mar13 (Apr 22, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> This is the old version of the T5, where the secondary air is linked to the primary with a steel rod. I went with the proven long burn, but don't know if I would be better off with the new version with the "automated" EBT2. Seems like on the new one, maybe you could run the primary lower, but the secondary would open up to clean up the burn. Their description of the EBT2 says it responds to draft, but I don't really understand how that would work...



I am also interested in hearing from people who have intimate knowledge and explanation of the EBT2 and its secondary air mechanics, beyond that which is described in Chimneysweeponline.com.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2019)

mar13 said:


> I am also interested in hearing from people who have intimate knowledge and explanation of the EBT2 and its secondary air mechanics, beyond that which is described in Chimneysweeponline.com.


Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?


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## mar13 (Apr 22, 2019)

begreen said:


> Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?



I think I got 95% of it down, and yes, he does a great job. (A previous thread he stated that he spent like 20 hours trying to get that webpage down.)

Here's what I still wonder: Is there a fixed amount of air that is always allowed into the secondary?  If so, how does that enter?   Through a small hole that in the flap like I think I see in the old 2009 YouTube video (by you?) about the EBT1 (  ), or through another path?  Also, would a set up with a strong draft leave the flap always open -and would that be good or bad?

Here's something I just found (  ) that with combined with Chimneysweeponline.com helps me more.  (There is no pin hole on this one.)  I think I just need to educate myself more about draft and "breaking too strong of a draft".

I'm digressing off the original post, so feel free to delete this and my just previous post if you think they are too off topic or too much in the weeds.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2019)

The EBT1 was a completely different design and approach than the EBT2. There are two small holes that still allows a small amount of air to the secondary on the EBT2 if the barometric valve is closed. In the video he's moving it around too much to see, but they are visible in the shot on the PE website.
https://www.pacificenergy.net/technologies/wood/ebt2/


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## mar13 (Apr 22, 2019)

begreen said:


> The EBT1 was a completely different design and approach than the EBT2. There are two small holes that still allows a small amount of air to the secondary on the EBT2 if the barometric valve is closed. In the video he's moving it around too much to see, but they are visible in the shot on the PE website.
> https://www.pacificenergy.net/technologies/wood/ebt2/



Thanks!  I had never noticed those two holes even though seeing that image many times before. In the video, I can now notice there are 4 permanent holes - 2 on each side.  Now I feel like I understand the system.


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 22, 2019)

If you can keep the top of the firebox hot, you can cut down the air as soon as the secondaries kick in.  The stove top can be quite cool with a secondary burn going on.


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## begreen (Apr 22, 2019)

On a cold start the stove top temp will lag far behind the firebox temp until the mass of steel warms up. This is why the flue temp and visual cues are important for determining when to start turning down the air.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 23, 2019)

begreen said:


> Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?


So what he calls the "Series B, 2013" is what PE calls EBT2?


mar13 said:


> I'm digressing off the original post, so feel free to delete this and my just previous post if you think they are too off topic or too much in the weeds.


I'm also interested in these, and how they relate to the linked system in the T5..


begreen said:


> On a cold start the stove top temp will lag far behind the firebox temp until the mass of steel warms up. This is why the flue temp and visual cues are important for determining when to start turning down the air.


Seems like the EBT2 is tracking flue temp/draft more closely than the earlier version, maybe that's part of the reason why the LE burns cleaner...reacts more quickly to what the fire is doing. Even though it hasn't proven itself in the Super box, I don't  expect that burn times will be affected, unless they also modified the primary to let more air in.
Tom said that people that have burned the Super LE like it, and he was advising potential buyers to wait for the Alderlea LE. It will be interesting to get feedback here from users. But Tom is probably the only one who can make a fair head-to-head comparison.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 23, 2019)

I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."


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## begreen (Apr 23, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."


That applies to the Summit series firebox.


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## mar13 (Apr 23, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."



Series B is the last preEPA2020 version of the Summit Series as @begreen said.  Series D is the last pre EPA2020 version of the Super Series which includes the T5.

Well, I went to my dealer  today and found out that the distribution center was still trying to clear out 5 of its series D T5 classics (enamel), so I had no choice and for better or worse I'll be getting a Series D rather than an LE. (I have to admit,  though, I did think the EBT2 system was clever + cleaner and was hoping for one, if all other things were equal.)

I did contact a dealer in Canada who had been running a Super 27 LE in the shop since last fall.  No problems and  runs very similar to the older version even with a tall chimney.  And no complaints from customers of a couple dozen LEs out in the field.  This testimony matches that of the well known Washington dealer.    I guess you can't go wrong either way, although soon people won't have a choice - if they ever did.


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## begreen (Apr 23, 2019)

Just to make it more interesting there is also the Summit Insert C.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 23, 2019)

begreen said:


> Just to make it more interesting there is also the Summit Insert C.


I see.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 23, 2019)

And then there's Step D-1 of Design D.


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## heavy hammer (Apr 25, 2019)

Nice looking stove, as others have said bigger pieces and turning the air down faster will help with slowing it down but temps of 700 are not uncommon.  I see stove temps like that on my insert often I was told that is normal.  Smaller loads will slow it  down as well small quicker fires.  If you load it up it will be a heat machine.  I like how clean the glass stays as well.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 25, 2019)

Yeah, as hot as it's been run so far, the glass is still totally clear.
Looks like a couple more cool nights coming, so I'll probably burn a couple partial loads. I'll cut the air sooner and more aggressively this time if I can, but at the same time I want to burn clean. Last time, at 400 the plume still wasn't totally clean. It's going to take some trial and error but I'm just about outta time until next fall...


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## begreen (Apr 25, 2019)

Has your SIL or your brother run the stove? How is it working for them?


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## Woody5506 (Apr 26, 2019)

Only time the glass gets dirty is if you're burning not-so-seasoned wood, or cutting air down all the way too soon. 

Regarding stove top temps, I think it takes a lot of actually overfire this stove. Not saying it should be run at some ridiculous temp but I've definitely let mine go a couple times and had the thermometer pegged over to the right. Only thing I could see was baffle rails inside the stove beginning to glow red. Shut the air off and within minutes the stove top temp is falling.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 26, 2019)

begreen said:


> Has your SIL run the stove?


No...she is physics-ly challenged.   I told her to keep an eye on it and turn it down if it got hot at the end of the last load (a partial,)  but I'm pretty sure it didn't, and she didn't say anything when I saw her later.
I want to get a good feel for how the stove runs, and then for how it will run on the various woods I've been getting for her. Then when I feel comfortable that I somewhat know what is going on, I'll bring her up to speed. That's on hold, as all we'll be doing over the next couple cool nights is burning a couple of short loads.


> Has your brother run the stove?


No, he has a Regency F2400, and doesn't live here. But yeah, he would have a better feel for the stove than I do, coming from a cat...


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## Woody Stover (Apr 26, 2019)

Went over and lit a pretty good-sized load, top-down start. Two Red Oak in the lower corners, Dogwood round between those, and splits above that and right, with a Red Mulberry on the left. Easy start even though it was over 50 outside.



The plume cleaned up pretty quickly as the kindling flamed well. There was a transition where the kindling was flamed out but not a lot of flame on the main load yet, and I think there was a little smoke, which seemed to clean up again as the main load flamed more. It was dusk, and getting hard to see the plume well.
At that point I had the air cut fairly low, surface flue meter about 270 maybe, and the stove top had climbed to 400 by the time I left, still rising.
She's going to keep an eye on it and if it looks like it wants to go to 700, she has a little more air she can cut.
She's going to log time, flue and stove top temps when she checks on it periodically. 
She's enjoying the big window.


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## begreen (Apr 26, 2019)

I would add a couple splits on top if you are anticipating a cold night and want a longer burn. Maybe you already did that.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 26, 2019)

No I didn't. It was still 68 in there, and with it only going down to 43 or so, I figured the partial load would hold room temp pretty well. Low-60s tomorrow. We'll probably do another partial again tomorrow evening.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 26, 2019)

Those Dogwood coals will go for a while, too.


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## begreen (Apr 27, 2019)

Ah ok, I was thinking you were seeing temps in the 30's like folks in MI, WI and NY are reporting.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 27, 2019)

begreen said:


> Ah ok, I was thinking you were seeing temps in the 30's like folks in MI, WI and NY are reporting.


I can only wish.  OTOH, these warmer temps are better for doing all the repairs on my beat-down 25 y.o. rides.


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## bcrtops (Apr 27, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> What do you guys use to lube the door hinges, trivet hinges and door latch roller? It appears that they greased them at the plant, but when the time comes, could I use B'laster Dry Lube PTFE or graphite spray, and not have to remove the door and trivets to apply grease?
> The door latch mechanism seems to make a solid seal, with the gasket pressing against the flat front wall of the box, like the Buck 91 does. I didn't do the dollar-bill test, I will next time I'm over there. The website mentions a "knife-edge" door gasket seal...I guess that is on  the steel-box-only models.



I know that begreen said no lube, but our hinge squeaked & the trivet hinges sounded horrible & difficult for the wife to move due to friction.  Aerosol graphite has become my normal summer routine when cleaning chimney, baffle, interior.  Trivet now always swings freely without noise, as well as the hinge assembly.  I have had problems with the hinge pins (too short & moved down into the drilled door), but never had any issues with the door latch in all these years of use.  Our wooden handle was drilled off-center, which looks a bit weird when going over the stove with an inspectors eye, but has always functioned properly.  

Excessive smoke &/or soot on glass always cause by the following:  1)  Wood not seasoned 2) Turning down air too soon 3) Having too small of a fire to start with & never getting up to clean burning temp, or small fire separating causing lower burn temps-----  & 4) An air leak around the door or window gasket cooling the glass in that area.


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## Hogwildz (Apr 28, 2019)

Soot on glass can be as simple as loading with split near or a couple inches from the glass. The ends of the splits with offgas against the glass causing it to soot up.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 30, 2019)

Hogwildz said:


> Soot on glass can be as simple as loading with split near or a couple inches from the glass.


I have a small amount of soot in the left corner. I'll check the door and glass gaskets, but it's probably just that I grabbed a couple splits that weren't quite as dry. I've been burning stuff that I got out of the woods a couple weeks ago, and while you can somewhat judge by the heft how dry various species are, it's not an exact science. I did notice a little moisture on the end of a small round I put in Sunday AM. It wasn't bubbling, just a couple spots of dampness. The wood has been placed back of the boost manifold, so that's a couple inches at least from the glass.
I wanted to fire up Saturday night, but it got late on me so I went over Sunday AM. Nice top-down start with some Tulip kindling, and secondaries started firing really early, like five minutes or so. 



Hard to see in the pic but upper left of that reflection, the side insulation is forming the hypotenuse of a right triangle with the side of the baffle and the horizontal top of the baffle/brick rail. A little flame was pulling into there, and back to the flue. I'll have to think about that, weather I'd rather have it going around the front of the baffle...I assume so.
I started cutting air but may have been a bit hasty. There was still some smoke when I looked, though not a lot. Stove was around 480 at that point...I think...shoulda took notes. 



I opened the air a little, and the plume cleaned up soon after. Nice secondaries off both the bottom and front holes. This was about the hottest the flue ever got. It comes down when you have less secondaries throwing heat up there.




It seemed to be settling into a nice burn and leveled off about 580, and the flue came down to around 360, so I left with the air like it was, open just a touch. There was even a cute little secondary coming off the boost manifold. 



I went home and fired _our_ stove, then went back in an hour to check on hers...cruising along, about where I left it. This is with 40+ outdoor temps, so we'll see next fall if it will still run with this kind of control. I feel like I'll have to add a second damper. Hard to believe at 15'.
I'm getting a little more comfortable, and really starting to like this stove...I might be falling for her. But I've loved every stove I've had so far, so take that with a grain of salt.


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## begreen (May 1, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I feel like I'll have to add a second damper.


Leave it alone. The stove is working fine even if the person running it can use some fine-tuning.


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## EatenByLimestone (May 1, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I'm getting a little more comfortable, and really starting to like this stove...I might be falling for her. But I've loved every stove I've had so far, so take that with a grain of salt.




*From Woody's stove to Woody's stove's friends*

I just don't know.   I think he's cheating on me.   He still comes home and stokes my fire... but it's not the same.   I bet he's visiting that new non cat across town.  You know their type, with that cast iron cladding and secondary light show!  I bet she'll still put out heat with damp wood!   Humph.


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## Woody Stover (May 1, 2019)

begreen said:


> Leave it alone.


I haven't done anything yet, just pondering what will happen in cold weather. Maybe you don't notice much difference, but average winter lows here are fifteen or twenty degrees below what you see. And you have a different stove. I'm already seeing flue surface temps pushing 400, and it was over 40 out. If we get a stretch of teens at night, below-freezing days, and I see flue surface flue temps pushing 500 with her blowing through a lot of wood, I'm gonna see that as a problem. As long as the stove can keep up at lower burn rates, while burning clean, that will be my goal. I have to cut at least six cords a year to keep up with our needs and the in-law stoves...not looking for more work.


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## Woody Stover (May 13, 2019)

We're getting some abnormally cool weather here. I've been firing our Keystone with partial loads in the evening for the last couple of nights.
Yesterday afternoon, I stopped in at my SIL's. She had fired up her furnace, as it had gotten down to 60 in her house. Yikes, how is that place losing so much heat?? Our place was barely dipping below 70. I guess our basement is pumping more heat upstairs; She has a walk-out, ours is full. I'm also going to check out air leaks in her place, around door weather-stripping etc. I'll also put in the foam inserts under the electrical outlet plates, and see if I can seal better around her attic access and light fixtures in the ceiling. She has 2x4 walls. 
She had only bumped up the furnace to 63, so we fired up another load in the T5. 
I started a top-down fire with a couple of SuperCedar chunks in the back/top, with a couple Pine kindling and small soft Maple splits. I figured that starting the fire in the back would get less wood burning, since the burn would have to work "upstream" toward the air wash. I thought I was cutting the air a little more aggressively once I saw secondaries starting, but I was a bit distracted by the Sixers/Raptors game 7, since the winners will have to face my Bucks.  I spaced out...I should have also closed the pipe damper earlier to limit the gassing of the load more and get her burning lower, around 600 like I had last time. As it turned out, it ended up going to 700 stove top, with 500 on the surface flue meter. That's a lot of heat wasted up the flue, as I see it.
In the pic you can see that I didn't have all big splits in there, but I have to work with what I had stacked for her before we decided to go with the T5. Most of the wood you see in this bay (one of four, with another full bay behind it) was gotten by me this spring. Some of it was still kind of wet so I thought I'd better split it.
I still have some dead Oak limbs and dead White Ash to grab and if they are low 20% moisture I won't split them as small, and try to leave more rounds to slow the burn.


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## Woody5506 (May 14, 2019)

Been firing mine up the past couple days with basically pallet oak kindling, small ash splits and let it mostly burn out, then add a couple bigger ash splits and I'm good for the evening/night.


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## heavy hammer (May 14, 2019)

Fired up both stoves tonight I have been burning the last of the cedar splits I have in the garage to clean it out.  One stove load is good for an overnight burn/ to heat the house.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 18, 2019)

begreen said:


> Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter.





Hogwildz said:


> Larger splits for longer, slower burns. Less fuel for less needed heat. If you fill her, she will eat, but if you pack it tight, it will last a long time.





Highbeam said:


> Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.





Highbeam said:


> I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove.


Yeah, you'll read "Look how simple the non-cat is, only one lever!" They don't tell ya "Hey, look out, don't put too small of splits in there, and don't let them get burning too much, or you'll be grabbing flaming wood out of the stove and throwing it into the nearest snowdrift!" 
With the weather cooling off, I've lit fires in the T5 to ward off the chill the last couple of upper-30s nights. I'm trying to employ the good advice given above, and might be starting to figure a couple things out.
First night didn't go too well..too much wood got burning, yet not enough heating of the box happened and it took me half an hour to finally get a clean plume. That night I had loaded a couple smaller Red Elm splits on top with a couple sticks of kindling. I guess maybe the Red Elm wasn't "flame-y" enough to generate much heat, or had a little damp spot as it sometimes can. With the amount of the load that ended up burning by the time I had the air fully cut, the stove top bumped up over 700 and the flue surface meter was pushing 500.
Last night, as this pic shows, I loaded a couple bigger Ash split/rounds, one small split of I-don't-know on the left top, and a small split of soft Maple nestled betwixt the big wood with an SC chunk and kindling sticks. That soft Maple flamed up really well and generated a lot of heat, and I had a clean plume and not much wood burning at 15 minutes.  I cut the air the rest of the way, closed the flue damper, and was outta there shortly after that when it looked like the fire was settling in. At that point, stove was only a little over 300 and the flue meter was about 250. My SIL wasn't going to stay up much longer but she hopefully looked at the temps before retiring, and can report. I expect this was probably my lowest-output run with the stove to date. I stopped by after she had left this AM, 11 hrs after starting the load, and there was still a coaling split remnant a little bigger than a football and the stove was still cranking heat at about 280. That's encouraging!


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## Woody5506 (Oct 21, 2019)

Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic - Is it sub par seasoned wood or just cut the air too soon? Lately I've just been burning 4x4's from hardwood pallets (yes they are untreated) usually oak, poplar and maybe some cherry, over a bed of the same type of kindling. This gets going fast, and takes the chill off enough to not totally heat me out of the room this time of year. Although I had a couple nights where I added another load right after that small fire and ended up heating myself out.  Shoulder season really isn't my favorite time to burn wood - hate cold starting, using kindling + firestarters and so on. I can really see the appeal of a cat stove during shoulder season.


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2019)

FWIW, our glass never looks like that unless the wood is right up against the glass or poorly seasoned. It doesn't look like that is the case here, but maybe it is. A thick, unsplit round can take years to season. Does the door gasket seal well and pass the dollar bill test on the latch side?


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## Woody Stover (Oct 21, 2019)

Woody5506 said:


> Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic - Is it sub par seasoned wood or just cut the air too soon?
> Shoulder season really isn't my favorite time to burn wood - hate cold starting, using kindling + firestarters and so on





begreen said:


> FWIW, our glass never looks like that unless the wood is right up against the glass or poorly seasoned. It doesn't look like that is the case here, but maybe it is. A thick, unsplit round can take years to season. Does the door gasket seal well and pass the dollar bill test on the latch side?


Secondary was kicking pretty good before I cut the air too far, but I'm not really sure about the big wood in there. It was from a White Ash I dropped recently. I had put it on top of her ready-to-go wood in the shed so I guess that when I was cutting and metering, I figured it was dry enough to burn. Whether it was it was 18% or 21%, I don't recall, but not real wet, anyway.  Could be that where I stuck the meter was a little drier than another section, as it was fresh-cut, not dried in the stack where it's gonna end up being uniform moisture throughout.
When I go over there after a load has burned out, there is a slight residue on that side of the glass, but nothing alarming. The pic lighting is making that look worse than it was. The wood was behind the boost air cover, so not real close to the glass.
I took a dollar bill over a couple days ago, the gasket is hitting but it's not real hard to pull it out so maybe I could snug it up a bit.
I don't mind starting a cold stove. That load build was simple..big wood, soft Maple split between, two kindling sticks on top of the flaming SuperCedar chunk. No muss, no fuss.


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I took a dollar bill over a couple days ago, the gasket is hitting but it's not real hard to pull it out so maybe I could snug it up a bit.


If it's like the T6, this is not a knife-edge seal. So as long as there is some resistance it is ok and best left alone.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 22, 2019)

begreen said:


> If it's like the T6, this is not a knife-edge seal. So as long as there is some resistance it is ok and best left alone.


Right, it's like the Buck 91, where the gasket hits the front of the stove box flat, around the door opening. I hadn't thought about it but what you say makes sense..it wouldn't have to be as tight, since there's a wider amount of gasket doing the sealing.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 23, 2019)

Woody5506 said:


> Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic





begreen said:


> our glass never looks like that


I think I may have found out why the glass was picking up some gunk..I started cleaning it with a scouring pad (ceramic stove-top safe) and 50/50 distilled vinegar and water, and the gunk was _really_ stubborn. Then I noticed a weird pattern on the glass. I think something may have been deposited on the glass during assembly, or something. I scrubbed the living daylights out of the glass and finally got it pretty clean. I may hit it again before the next fire, just to make sure, but the glass looked good after last night's fire, just a couple of very thin strips of slight discoloration up the edges of the glass on both sides.
I finally remembered to look at where the stove temp went the other night, when I thought it was running pretty well, and low. Tin foil marker indicated about 500, so I was happy with that burn. Here's a pic of yesterday's load, Silver Maple (I think that round on top is Elm.) That fire lit off the secondary early again, and when I looked at the stove top meter, it had again peaked around 500. I may yet get the hang of this thing!


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## Woody Stover (Oct 25, 2019)

Woody5506 said:


> Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic - Is it sub par seasoned wood





begreen said:


> FWIW, our glass never looks like that unless the wood is right up against the glass or poorly seasoned.


Hard to say for sure how much of the glass gunk was attracted by whatever was left on the glass at the plant, but I think you guys were right that those Ash chunks pictured above may not have been totally dry.
Here's how the glass looks now, after a couple more burns..manufacturing residue cleaned off the glass, and dry wood. Not bad at all.


I burned the stove again yesterday afternoon. I partially loaded the box, then put on top a half-round of Silver Maple that was splintered on one end, and nestled a SC chunk into the splinters. I lit it, then went back outside to split some more of the Ash I had brought over there, going back inside every ten minutes or so to see how the fire was developing. The mistake I made was that there was maybe a 3" air space under the Silver Maple starter split. When it got going good, and burning on the bottom, it ignited all the other wood too quick, and then there was too much gassing going on by the time I checked the fire again. It ended up going to 700 and no doubt her house was a little warm by the time she got back home.  If I had been inside watching the fire the whole time, I probably could have nipped it in the bud and kept stove temp down around 600 or less. Yeah, I'm screwing up here and there, but I'm having fun doing it!


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## Woody Stover (Oct 25, 2019)

begreen said:


> Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter. .


What happens if you load dense wood that is slow to catch, like Black Locust? Will that keep the burn in check at the beginning, as you get the stove up to temp?


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## Hogwildz (Oct 26, 2019)

Yes, It should slow things down.
Larger splits will do the same also.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 1, 2019)

Wow, every day is different with this stove.  I thought my main worry was getting too much wood burning on startup, and the stove going 700+. That said, the last couple of burns have gone well, burning clean and temp topping out around 600-650.
But last night, with colder temps arriving, I was a bit concerned that draft would be stronger and the load might run a bit hotter and shorter than I wanted. So I started cutting air pretty early, as soon as I saw signs of a small amount of secondary burn. Well, apparently I got too aggressive because I ended up crashing the secondary burn, and the stove top stalled at <400 and the flue was only 230. I had to open the air up to get some flame, but I had to leave it with her and I'm not sure I ever got the secondary burning again. Might have been a dirty burn, I guess I'll know when I see how high the marker went on the stove meter. Sheesh, I didn't even think it was going to be possible for me to crash a load with this stove! Sure, I could over-shoot in the other direction to guarantee the burn, but I'm trying to see if I can burn less wood and send less heat up the flue.
No pic, but here's the load I had; Four Red Elm half-splits, nested together to form two 5" rounds loaded in the corners. Then I had a slab of White Oak, 3.5x6.5x16, standing on edge in the middle. In the Vs formed by the slab and the two rounds I dropped a couple starters and kindling, with a couple small starter splits. I guess that with the White Oak and the "rounds," the wood just wasn't catching as well as I thought, and I cut too much air too soon. If she's home I'll head over there now and we'll try again, with different wood in a different configuration.  I'm hoping I can have a bit of control over the burn, once I get better at visually assessing how the load is catching and when and how much to cut the air. Even if I got that control, I don't know if she ever could. When she runs the stove, 700+ loads may be all that can be done.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 2, 2019)

At this time of year, you're still starting a new fire every day, right?  Top down?


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## begreen (Nov 2, 2019)

Go by flue temp. When the flue temp (probe) is about 400º start closing down the air till the flames start getting lazy, but not snuffed out. On our stove this is about 50-60% closed at this time of the year.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 2, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Wow, every day is different with this stove.  I thought my main worry was getting too much wood burning on startup, and the stove going 700+. That said, the last couple of burns have gone well, burning clean and temp topping out around 600-650.
> But last night, with colder temps arriving, I was a bit concerned that draft would be stronger and the load might run a bit hotter and shorter than I wanted. So I started cutting air pretty early, as soon as I saw signs of a small amount of secondary burn. Well, apparently I got too aggressive because I ended up crashing the secondary burn, and the stove top stalled at <400 and the flue was only 230. I had to open the air up to get some flame, but I had to leave it with her and I'm not sure I ever got the secondary burning again. Might have been a dirty burn, I guess I'll know when I see how high the marker went on the stove meter. Sheesh, I didn't even think it was going to be possible for me to crash a load with this stove! Sure, I could over-shoot in the other direction to guarantee the burn, but I'm trying to see if I can burn less wood and send less heat up the flue.
> No pic, but here's the load I had; Four Red Elm half-splits, nested together to form two 5" rounds loaded in the corners. Then I had a slab of White Oak, 3.5x6.5x16, standing on edge in the middle. In the Vs formed by the slab and the two rounds I dropped a couple starters and kindling, with a couple small starter splits. I guess that with the White Oak and the "rounds," the wood just wasn't catching as well as I thought, and I cut too much air too soon. If she's home I'll head over there now and we'll try again, with different wood in a different configuration.  I'm hoping I can have a bit of control over the burn, once I get better at visually assessing how the load is catching and when and how much to cut the air. Even if I got that control, I don't know if she ever could. When she runs the stove, 700+ loads may be all that can be done.


You will get used to it. I almost closed mine down too quick last night on a full load and had to rekindle it. Cold starts will just be like this sometimes. When 24/7 burning starts this will be much easier since the stove will already be hot.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 2, 2019)

Meter reading from the previous night got back up to 500. Hard to say if the secondary started burning again or if that was just heat from flame on the logs.
We lit another fire last night, and it went pretty well. Loaded two big Walnut chunks in the corners, a White Oak in the center with a couple left-over coals on top, and several smaller splits on top of the Walnut chunks or the coals. We kept a close eye on how much wood was catching, and kept the load under control while still keeping enough fire to get secondary and heat the stove up. Load peaked a little over 700, and I opened the trivets, which seems to bleed off 30-50 degrees from the stove top temp. Good burn.




EatenByLimestone said:


> At this time of year, you're still starting a new fire every day, right?  Top down?


Yes, up 'til now we have been lighting one load a day on days we decide to burn, top-down starts.
She didn't have anything going on until this afternoon so we figured we would reload the stove this morning on coals left from last night, and we did that about 6 AM. We both went out to select the wood, and this time we didn't get any big chunks, just a bunch of smaller semi-rounds. We shoved the coals to the center/back and were able to pack those splits in without  many exposed edges. We kept a close eye on how the fire was progressing and kept the load under control. When I left, the plume was getting pretty clean, secondary firing well and stove temp was 400+ and rising. The air was completely closed, as was the flue damper.


begreen said:


> Go by flue temp. When the flue temp (probe) is about 400º start closing down the air till the flames start getting lazy, but not snuffed out. On our stove this is about 50-60% closed at this time of the year.


It sounds like you have more control over the air than I do. We started cutting air when flue temp was about 300. Granted that the smaller splits in this load took off faster.
What flue temps are you seeing, once you are cruising the stove, but still with plenty of wood left in the load?
OK, I just went back over there to check on it. When she got back from walking her dog, she opened the trivets since the top was at 700, and I told her we really don't want the stove getting much hotter than that.
I should have got a pic of the initial load, but this is what's left, two hours in. It might have been 1/2-2/3 of a load. The flame is somewhat lazy, but the secondary is blazing  and a lot of heat is going up the flue..470 on the surface meter. The load is almost to the coaling stage already. I feel that at this point in the burn (as well as earlier,) I should be able to run the stove cleanly at a slower burn rate, so I'll be looking into correcting that situation..


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## SpaceBus (Nov 2, 2019)

I wouldn't worry about the stove hitting 700-750 peak surface temp, as long as it doesn't do that for several hours. I'm starting a fire or two a day so I'm cruising through kindling and my smaller pieces. If you are just doing one fire a day, don't worry about long low fires. Just do a small short hot fire with small stuff and be done for the day. I loaded my stove full last night since we don't have all the insulation back up yet. With my stove a full load is easier to control, but makes way more heat than we usually need lately.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 2, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I wouldn't worry about the stove hitting 700-750 peak surface temp, as long as it doesn't do that for several hours. I'm starting a fire or two a day so I'm cruising through kindling and my smaller pieces. If you are just doing one fire a day, don't worry about long low fires. Just do a small short hot fire with small stuff


If I had a full load in there, I think it could go 700+ for several hours. We're supposed to get closer to normal temps, so one smaller fire a day should suffice. I was glad to see that the draft didn't seem to get a lot stronger when temps outside dropped. It may not be amplified as much on only 15' of stack.
Some extra draft might be welcome though, if she wants to throw in a split or two on the fly. I was thinking of doing that the other night, but thought I smelled a little smoke when I opened the door a good ways, so I bailed out and just closed the door. I wasn't being too careful, so the jury is still out on whether topping off the load will be possible without smoke escaping. The stove has no bypass and the exhaust exits the top of the box right behind the door.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 2, 2019)

15ft isnt enough to dampen that stove, lol.  It's  got the easy breathing lungs of a marathon runner.


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## begreen (Nov 2, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Meter reading from the previous night got back up to 500.


What does this mean? Stovetop, stovepipe, probe thermometer? 

650-700º stovetop temp is pretty common for us on a full reload. I see that almost daily unless I load up with some extra-thick splits that take longer to outgas and get rolling.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 2, 2019)

EatenByLimestone said:


> 15ft isnt enough to dampen that stove, lol.  It's  got the easy breathing lungs of a marathon runner.


I don't think you have a tall stack in your cabin. Can you load a couple more splits when you've already got a load burning, without smoking out the room?


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## Woody Stover (Nov 2, 2019)

begreen said:


> What does this mean? Stovetop, stovepipe, probe thermometer?


Sorry I wasn't clear..500 was what the stove top got back up to a couple nights ago, when I crashed the load and lost secondary. I opened the air back up before I left and got flame on the wood, but I can't say if I ever got secondary back. I would think so; From what I've seen, secondary starts working when stove temps get over 300 on a new load.
I'm guessing that even though we both have an Alderlea, your stove may run a lot differently due to your EBT, vs. the T5's direct-linked secondary air.


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## begreen (Nov 2, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear..500 was what the stove top got back up to a couple nights ago, when I crashed the load and lost secondary. I opened the air back up before I left and got flame on the wood, but I can't say if I ever got secondary back. I would think so; From what I've seen, secondary starts working when stove temps get over 300 on a new load.
> I'm guessing that even though we both have an Alderlea, your stove may run a lot differently due to your EBT, vs. the T5's direct-linked secondary air.


I get secondaries as low as 200-225º SST, but the T6 has more mass. It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 2, 2019)

begreen said:


> It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.


Yes, that makes sense. When I crashed the secondary, STT was in the 300s, and falling, flue was 230 or so. The silver zone on the meter is marked 230 at the bottom, 475 at the top, you get no numbers other than those two so you have to guesstimate.
Now, other times when I've had 230+ on the flue, the secondaries can be firing well, probably due to more heat in the box from flaming wood, as opposed to the smoldering wood I had when it crashed, but flue was also 230. So the flue meter also has some lag in relation to conditions in the box. Seems the best feedback we can get is from looking at the fire and having a feel for what's happening in there regarding temp, gassing, etc. I'm getting a better handle on when to cut air, and how much. It's a learning curve for her and I, no doubt! I think we'll have a good feel for it by the time winter gets here.
Hey, I need to go look at the stove now..she mighta tossed in more wood before she left!


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 2, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> I don't think you have a tall stack in your cabin. Can you load a couple more splits when you've already got a load burning, without smoking out the room?




I have (3) 4ft sections of class A sitting on a telescoping single wall attachment.   From stove to ceiling is 4ft of single wall that rides over the telescope.

By the performance of the stove, the chimney could be much shorter.  Code says otherwise though.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 2, 2019)

begreen said:


> I get secondaries as low as 200-225º SST, but the T6 has more mass. It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.




I start cutting down air when the flames start licking the baffle reliably and I see hints of second aries.


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## begreen (Nov 2, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> It's a learning curve for her and I, no doubt! I think we'll have a good feel for it by the time winter gets here.
> Hey, I need to go look at the stove now..she mighta tossed in more wood before she left!


Yes, visual cues can also help, but only if you are sitting and watch the stove. Most of us multitask and get involved in something else while waiting. 

Put her on here and let her drive the questions.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 2, 2019)

begreen said:


> Yes, visual cues can also help, but only if you sit and watch the stove. Most of us multitask and get involved in something else while waiting.
> 
> Put her on here and let her drive the questions.


Indeed.

Sounds like someone wants to run it like a cat stove 
If I try to drive my wife's car (high strung four cylinder) like my truck (Cummins) I would get creamed pulling into traffic from short shifting. If my wife tried to drive my truck like her car, I think the crank would leave the block.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 2, 2019)

Lack of torque drives me crazy when driving my wife's car.    I have to push the gas pedal too far down to get it to move.  I think my truck's drivetrain in my wife's Honda would be a hoot!


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## SpaceBus (Nov 2, 2019)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Lack of torque drives me crazy when driving my wife's car.    I have to push the gas pedal too far down to get it to move.  I think my truck's drivetrain in my wife's Honda would be a hoot!


In my case it's a turbo four cylinder, so once the compressor gets going the car is awesome. There is about no power out of boost though.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 3, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Sounds like someone wants to run it like a cat stove


She had a Dutchwest cat previously, but we both know it's not gonna run like a cat stove; There has to be a higher burn rate in order to burn cleanly. But to use your analogy, when driving a vehicle, you have an accelerator.  If you get off the pedal, you slow down; You don't have to drive just below redline every time you start the engine. I don't think all secondary stoves are this uncontrollable. My brother, for instance, runs a Regency F2400, and can slow it down by cutting the air if he would need to. Have you got some degree of control over the Morso burn rate? I realize that most of the control of total heat output is going come from varying load size, but a bit more control over the immediate fire would be nice. I mean, you aren't going to get a perfect start every time..sometimes you  have smaller splits to use up, or you are gonna get a little too much wood burning, and need to reel it back in. That's when some control would come in handy. What happens when you run this stove on 25' of stack, instead of 15'??  
She burned a load last night, and it went pretty well for her, as far as I know.  She had some bigger Red Oak chunks I brought in for the load. She didn't reset my stove top meter marker, but she said she cut a little too much air and had to open it up to get secondaries again. A couple of those Oak splits might have been slowed down by a little surface moisture..I grabbed them out of a stack crash I'm picking up, that got rained on a couple times. I figured that if I've gotta pick it up, I might as well separate out the big splits and give them to her.


begreen said:


> Put her on here and let her drive the questions.


I'm not sure she _has_ many questions. I'm trying to learn about the secondary way of burning for my own sake. If I can impress upon her the importance of not over-firing the stove, and give her some tips to that end, that's my top priority for her. If I can figure out how to burn cleanly at a slightly lower rate than redline, and relay _that_ to her, maybe she can heat using a little less wood (that I will have to get.)
She's supposed to reset the paper clip on the stove top meter, so we'll see how she does tonight. It's only going down to 38..she'd better go light on the load or it may get a bit roasty in there.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2019)

Both of you need to go by the flue temp and not the stovetop temp. She is unlikely to overfire the stove. Start turning down the air when the temp is around 400ºF (the T in Best on the Condar?). Top down burn on a half-load of wood should burn cleanly and keep from getting the stove over 550-600F.


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## mar13 (Nov 4, 2019)

begreen said:


> Both of you need to go by the flue temp and not the stovetop temp. She is unlikely to overfire the stove. Start turning down the air when the temp is around 400ºF (the T in Best on the Condar?). Top down burn on a half-load of wood should burn cleanly and keep from getting the stove over 550-600F.



I'm doing my first seasons on my (so-far) unadulterated T5 (not epa2020).  ~23' straight up stack.  Very dry tan oak and eucalyptus medium (~4" radius, quarter circle)  splits, with cypress (soft) kindling.    Top down burns.  Using a Condar flue thermometer and Condar stove top thermometer.  No problem controlling the burn & getting clean burns with outside temps in mid40s.   But that said, I've been conservative with the wood load (3 splits) and watching it like a hawk as some past reports have me hyper aware about preventing runaway temperatures.  With these size of loads, cutting the air all the way down seems counter productive except at the peak burn.

When the daytime highs stay cooler and the days rainier,  I'll experiment with larger loads.  

All be told, this T5 requires a lot less tending than my old cast iron pre-EPA VC which I fed constantly to keep hot,  undercontrol, smokeless burns going.  With all this new extra time on hand, it's hard not to want to fine tune the air adjustment on the T5.  (In retrospect,  I think I was doing over kill attempting to keep the entire burn smokeless on that old VC stove.)


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## Woody Stover (Nov 4, 2019)

begreen said:


> Both of you need to go by the flue temp and not the stovetop temp. She is unlikely to overfire the stove. Start turning down the air when the temp is around 400ºF (the T in Best on the Condar?). Top down burn on a half-load of wood should burn cleanly and keep from getting the stove over 550-600F.


We do use the flue meter when starting a load, and sometimes get secondaries when the needle is just hitting the bottom of the silver band, 230. There's glare on the dial in the previous pic, but the top end of the silver is 475, so I figure halfway should be around 350.
I don't really look at the stove meter until the burn is established, the air is cut all the way and flue damper is closed. A few times, flue has leveled off around 350 and stove under 650. More often, flue is pushing 470 and stove is 700+. That might last a couple hours with the size loads we've been doing, then temps start to fall back.
Yeah, I'm not too worried about her over-firing the stove, as long as she cuts the air all the way for the cruise, which she has been doing. Only way she could get into trouble is if she gets some damp or dense wood it there, the burn is sluggish and she opens the air more, then leaves. I'll caution her. We need more burns before we'll feel  fairly certain of what will happen with most loads. These partial fall loads are just the ticket to build confidence. I've been impressed at how long the house stays cozy even on a short load. You were sure right about the cast iron acting as a heat sink.  Hasn't been too cold yet, though. She has 2x4 walls, a vaulted ceiling, and air-sealing could be improved.


mar13 said:


> ~23' straight up stack.  Very dry tan oak and eucalyptus medium (~4" radius, quarter circle)  splits, with cypress (soft) kindling.    Top down burns.  Using a Condar flue thermometer and Condar stove top thermometer.  No problem controlling the burn & getting clean burns with outside temps in mid40s.   But that said, I've been conservative with the wood load (3 splits) and watching it like a hawk as some past reports have me hyper aware about preventing runaway temperatures.  With these size of loads, cutting the air all the way down seems counter productive except at the peak burn.


 We had a couple nights that went to freezing, but when we lit the fires it was probably still upper 30s. I didn't notice an appreciable increase in the draft, but that's on 15'. May be a different story at 23'.
Partial loads have been a bit bigger than what you're describing, and a couple loads were maybe 2/3 full. Splits were bigger. I agree with begreen, I don't think an over-fire is a worry, unless you do something way out of the ordinary. Real winter temps will answer some of the questions.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 6, 2019)

I lit her a short load about 1 PM yesterday, since she needed a warm house shortly after she got home. Big round in the center bottom was maybe 5".  I had a soft Maple split on top but as you see, the fire went down into the rounds on the right side pretty early. Instead of laying that Maple flat, I should have let the flame come up around it more, then maybe the fire would have stayed on top better. I cut the air to 2/3 when the stack got to 230 and to 1/3 not too long after that. Even though the fire went down into the rounds pretty quickly, I got a great, muted secondary burn. You can see that the flames are dull red and blue, and temps of flue and stove went up gradually. I went out to bust some kindling for the gals, and by the time I left, maybe 1.5 hrs. in, the stove was up to 670 and the flue was maybe 400 or so. The stove meter marker showed that it didn't get much hotter during that burn, or when she tossed on three more splits in the evening.





I think we'll pick up the blower for the stove. That would allow her to let house temp drop when she's gone, saving wood, yet recover quickly once she is home. Blower should peel off heat before it can go up the flue when you are letting it rip a bit, and would be handy to bring down STT if needed.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 9, 2019)

I went by her house this morning, chimney looked like a fire had just been lit so I stopped in to see how it was going. She's freakin' a little bit, sez "The fire is going crazy..I can't slow it down!" I look at it..wood is glowing over the ash dump. I reach underneath the ash lip, and the dump lever isn't seated and locked in. I had told her about that, and showed her how to make sure it was locked, but I guess I should have made her do it herself so she could actually feel it sliding back and locking in. Sometimes she says 'Yeah, yeah, sure. right, I see" and nods a lot, but I'm not sure she knows what I'm talking about and figures that if she just agrees, maybe I will quit talking.  
At any rate, no harm done. The load hadn't been burning long, and the stove and flue meters weren't hot at all and the baffle wasn't glowing..secondaries weren't firing yet.
It got down to freezing last night, no wind. She had only put three medium splits in last night and her house was down to 64. Apparently she needed a couple more in that load.


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## begreen (Nov 9, 2019)

I suggest not using the ash dump. It isn't a lot easier and has the potential to get a coal or clinker trapped which may keep it from closing tightly. Ours has not been used for almost a decade. Keep it simple. 

Bonus, if you clean out the ash pan it makes a dandy bun warmer.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 9, 2019)

I don't know if yours is similar, they may have improved it, but this door is spring-loaded, and then there's also a retraction spring. You have to pull the lever forward to clear the lock, and when closed and released the door is slid back by the retracrion spring into the lock slot, or above a bracket (I didn't actually look at it, was just able to feel how it works.) You can then double-check that it is locked by pushing the lever down to see if the door will open. If it won't, it is locked.
I guess a clinker could get wedged in there so that the door wouldn't slide all the way back but you'd know if the door wasn't locking when you pushed down on the lever to double-check. Once it even begins to slide back in the slot, it is sealed. I would have to actually look at how the door lock works, which I will do soon, to see if what you are suggesting has much likelihood of happening. I think that what happens presently is that there is a bit of ash or coal still on the door, and the door-close spring can't close the door far enough so that the retraction spring can slide it back into the slot. If you just pull the door back out slightly against the retraction spring, it clears any ash so that the door is fully closed and can be pushed back by the retraction spring into the slot.
She got spoiled on the Dutchwest ash grate many years ago, like I did. She's not a fan of shoveling, which she occasionally has to do in her sister's Fireview. I could get her up to speed on efficiently and cleanly removing ash with a shovel and pan, but I'm pretty sure that if I ask her if she would prefer to do that, in light of what just happened to her, she would probably still not want to shovel, especially when I give her a hands-on lesson so that she can feel the ash door lock in. I can ask, though. If one speck of ash is seen escaping by her, she won't like it one little bit, no sir. 
If you don't shovel out for several weeks, as I seem to recall you saying, it's possible the T6 holds much more ash than the T5. Appears to me that one would have to shovel this stove once a week during 24/7 burning.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 9, 2019)

I showed her how to make sure the ash dump was closed, with HER operating the lever.     Then we stuffed in a pretty decent load. Only going into the upper 30s tonight, but there's a pretty good breeze so I don't think she'll roast.
Dogwood top right, several Red Elm, the ones with a little moisture on the ends, White Oak block bottom center, flanked by two small Red Elm. Some big air gaps along the bottom row. Load seemed to be burning under control. We had good secondary burn, clean plume, air and flue damper shut, about 350 stack, 400 stove when I left. I expect it to peak a little under 700.


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## begreen (Nov 9, 2019)

The amount of ash created is going  to vary with the wood species. It’s why I like Doug fir. Low ash.
I’d fill that hole and make it a full load with temperatures in the 30 s.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 9, 2019)

I'm hoping this load will have room temp around 70 come morning. We shall see. 
Look at that gap between the rear rail and the sagging baffle that bottoms on the rail in the center. I imagine quite a bit of air is being bled off the secondary air supply at that point. I can see a secondaries coming out of that gap at times, from the air escaping. I could block that with some flat gasket or something, or flatten the baffle out but I don't think I'll do anything yet, just observe it for now..
What is inside of the baffle, anything?


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 10, 2019)

I have a piece of fire brick above my ash dump.  I use a steel dust pan to shovel the ash out.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 10, 2019)

I haven't used an ash dump, but I like the shaker on the Morso and the cooker has a grate. I think both stoves are allowed to burn coal in Europe.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> The amount of ash created is going  to vary with the wood species. It’s why I like Doug fir. Low ash.
> I’d fill that hole and make it a full load with temperatures in the 30 s.


I guess the conifers are the lowest-ash wood.
Even though that was a loose load, when I checked at about 11 hrs. the stove was still 260 and the house was at 71, with some coals left in the box. Not bad, but it's not cold yet. We've got some teens coming Mon. and Tues...definitely gonna be full-load time.


EatenByLimestone said:


> I use a steel dust pan to shovel the ash out.


One nice thing about a pan, you can chose when you want to dump it; You don't have a hot load that has to be dealt with immediately. If you can let the stove go out, OK, but sometimes with our climate we have to keep crankin' loads..


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## begreen (Nov 10, 2019)

Ash content can be high in some conifers and hardwoods too. I read somewhere that it relates to mineral content of the wood, bark creating more than the wood. Doug fir bark can be very thick and creates much more ash than the wood. I think locust may have a similar characteristic.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 11, 2019)

begreen said:


> Ash content can be high in some conifers and hardwoods too. I read somewhere that it relates to mineral content of the wood, bark creating more than the wood. Doug fir bark can be very thick and creates much more ash than the wood. I think locust may have a similar characteristic.


Some White Ash I've gotten has had bark 2" thick! I foolishly nuked the pics.  But BL, for the heat you get, isn't giving you that much ash.
So she was having visitors shortly after she got home, and I went over a couple hrs early to fire the heater. I loaded a bunch of 4" rounds, Red Elm and Mulberry. Of course, after I'd cut all the air, I forgot about the flue damper again  or maybe I could have kept that much wood from catching. I'm just not used to thinking about the flue damper yet, as I never use mine at home.
As it turned out, the right side of this load got going pretty good early on. In these pics, you can also see the secondary burn from under the back of the baffle where the gap is between it and the back rail, due to the sagging belly of the baffle. It's visible as a horizontal line behind the secondary flame that's coming off the holes in front of the baffle. STT went 725, flue 475. Sheesh. No reeling the burn back in with the present air setup, once  you have that much wood catching and the secondary is firing that hard.



Once the right side gassed out, in less than a half hour, stove and flue temp dropped quickly. By the time I left, two hrs in, stove 600, flue 350. It's blowing through wood and throwing heat out the flue like nobody's bizzniss.  You can see that the right side is pretty much consumed to coals, and there's relatively untouched wood left on the left. Secondary has pretty much died but I think it will continue to clean up the gas from the left side.



After I freaked at how vigorously it was chewing the wood, I began trying to convince her that instead of jamming a full load in, on mornings when she leaves early, maybe it would be a more efficient use of resources to put in just a few splits and let room temp fall some while she's gone. Then just fire up the furnace for twenty minutes or so when she gets back, until the new stove load can start kicking heat. Like begreen says, "It's cleaner and greener!"  What's it gonna cost, a buck or less? We have the highest electric rates in the state, but the lowest gas rates.
Or when we get the blower on the stove, maybe that can recover room temp pretty quick..


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## Woody Stover (Nov 11, 2019)

Just found out she's got a heat pump, not gas furnace. Begreen says his heat pump uses very little power, but I don't know how new it is. Her heat pump might be about twenty years old..


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