# Engage Hub for Efergy Classic



## johnny1720 (May 2, 2014)

So I finally got my efergy classic and engage hub.  I Read the instructions which clearly stated, get the classic display and transmitter working first.  Then get the engage hub working.  

I got the first step no problem. Now when I plug in the engage hub only the power light works.  The LAN and wifi blink a few times


Any one out there able to lend me a hint?


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## johnny1720 (May 4, 2014)

Ok so the engage hub has an issue I think I created the issue.  It was not fully booted when I tried to link it to the transmitter at my 150 AMP Panel.  Customer service called me yesterday and they said they will be in touch with me on Monday. That was awesome that they called me back on a Saturday and I got to talk to an intelligent human.

I have been watching the handheld monitor and it is an eye opener.  I had originally thought that the main energy consumer in my house would be my Geothermal Heat Pump.  I was pretty wrong about that.  I will continue to update this post with readings.  Yesterday was laundry day at my house, we ran 10 loads of laundry so the dryer ran for almost 10 hours.  We consumed almost 50 KwH just yesterday.  I am getting materials for a clothes line today...

I am going to get some real numbers, ie turn of all the breakers in the panel and chase possible leaks. 

Heat Pump, Stage 1 = 2.1 KwH
Heat Pump, Stage 2 = 3.2 KwH
Electric Dryer, 5.5 KwH
Flat Top Range and Oven, with just the oven uses 3.5 KwH


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## Highbeam (May 5, 2014)

I couldn't help you with the Engage Hub, but I am a big fan of monitoring and I use an efergy as well. I have not bothered with trying to utilize the USB connection to a PC for other logging data. Just the instant and daily consumption figures are the main thing for me.

10 loads of laundry Cripes, I cut off the wife at two just to prevent the septic from being overloaded. If I was on sewer then maybe it would be okay but I want to keep that thing healthy.

My flat top range with nothing running uses 58 watts all the time. Lame. When running it, like your dryer, cycles the elements so you need to log the action or do the math over time.

I have had days well into the 50s of kwh but I don't think I've ever hit 60.


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## semipro (May 5, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> I am getting materials for a clothes line today...


And all that dryer heat goes to waste.  At least it would be nice to use it to preheat domestic hot water. 
We use a clothes line quite a bit.  My wife and adult sons resist.  I help more than I used to with laundry by using the clothes line. We tend to separate out the small items like socks, rags, underwear and use the dryer for them.  All else goes on the line.


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## semipro (May 5, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> My flat top range with nothing running uses 58 watts all the time. Lame.


If I'm not mistaken I think they just revised the Energy Star program somehow.  I would be helpful if the labels showed the parasitic (vampire) draw of devices.


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## Slow1 (May 5, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> Yesterday was laundry day at my house, we ran 10 loads of laundry so the dryer ran for almost 10 hours. We consumed almost 50 KwH just yesterday. I am getting materials for a clothes line today...



Egads!  10 loads in one day?  Is laundry day a monthly event?  We have 6 in the family and only do 4-5 loads a week.  

+1 on the clothes line; we dry all our clothes on the line now (have for more than a year).  I have one drying area in the house (9 lines between two walls next to the stove), and an outside umbrella style.   The electric dryer does get used to "finish" towels as the girls were revolting about the "crunchy" towels - so they hang until mostly dry then get finished off and fluffed (doesn't take very long and keeps the peace in the family).


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## velvetfoot (May 5, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> I am getting materials for a clothes line today...


Hanging and retrieving the laundry gonna be your job?

From what I recall when I was still using the Energy Detective (hey, the CT's are still there) it was handy to see what was on, like when leaving the house and stuff.  I also had plans to use it to monitor watts when the genny was running-you have to have extra CTs or move them, but I wound up not doing much of that either.  In general, the problem was the power line carrier data transmission which was flakey-sounds like the new stuff is better and cheaper.  Might jump in again, tempting. After using it for a while the novelty wore off, so, maybe not.


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## Highbeam (May 5, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> After using it for a while the novelty wore off


 
Mounting the display on the wall in the living room helps with this. I find it is like a tachometer on a car. I can live without it but I would feel naked.


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## johnny1720 (May 5, 2014)

We do laundry once a week.  I get dirty at my job and I change as soon as I get home.  

This thing is really cool, I can now tell when the well pump turns on.  I checked my graph today and the last time it kicked on was 6:30 AM (after my shower)

I am addicted to it


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## johnny1720 (May 5, 2014)

Yea I will take over laundry ops, no problem there


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## velvetfoot (May 5, 2014)

Highbeam: (oh no, here we go again) You have the Effergy as well?


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## Highbeam (May 6, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Highbeam: (oh no, here we go again) You have the Effergy as well?



Yes. It is displaying 6.440 kw right now.


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## johnny1720 (May 6, 2014)

So how accurate do you think these things are?   

I took a reading from my meter this weekend and again tonight.   it showed I used 87 KwH.  

According to my efergy it says I used 77 KwH.  

Years ago I was getting se crazy electric bills $400, $300 etc..  I called the power company and told them I thought the meter was bad.  After some arguing they swapped my meter.  The consumption went down to 1/4 the usage of the old meter.  They calibrated and reinstalled meter, and it seemed fine


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## woodgeek (May 6, 2014)

My utility smart meter and my efergy are about 1-2% different.


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## Highbeam (May 7, 2014)

I never compared against the meter but I have done plenty of checks against light bulbs. Like when I turn on a 9 watt Cree in a table lamp, the display bumps up exactly 9 watts.


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## velvetfoot (May 7, 2014)

As a result of this thread, I've been messing with the TED 1001 again.  A word to the wise:  don't EVER get stuff that relies on power line carrier.  I thought I had got it working, plug in a battery charger-nothing.  Plus, I went through the entire breaker box this AM, and the smokes SUBTRACT 30 watts.


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## maple1 (May 8, 2014)

I don't seem to be seeing the accuracy in my monitor that others are seeing.

I can watch the display in apparent periods of settled constant consumption (with nothing turning off or on), and the display will vary in the area of 10's of watts, up & down.

I'm also not sure about it's readings vs. my power bill - mainly because I'm not sure how to interpret its history display. I think it's telling me that in my last 2 month billing period I used around $250 worth of power, while my power bill said I used around $170 worth. That has me scratching my head - maybe my meter has gone wonky but I'm sure not going to phone anybody about it.


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## Highbeam (May 8, 2014)

maple1 said:


> I don't seem to be seeing the accuracy in my monitor that others are seeing.


 
A couple of things you can try. The clamps measure current flow with magnetic fields (flux?) and are ideally very square to the wire. So be sure that the clamps are on a straight section of wire and that the clamps are centered and square to the straight wire. You can use zip ties to support the clamps.

Then verify the voltage that the monitor is assuming. I set mine for 120. Your utility meter should have a sticker on it that indicates the assumed voltage.

You might have a fault somewhere that is arcing and crackling as it dumps more and less current to ground. Perhaps shut off breakers one at a time until the floating current display stops floating.


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## woodgeek (May 8, 2014)

maple1 said:


> I don't seem to be seeing the accuracy in my monitor that others are seeing.
> 
> I can watch the display in apparent periods of settled constant consumption (with nothing turning off or on), and the display will vary in the area of 10's of watts, up & down.
> 
> I'm also not sure about it's readings vs. my power bill - mainly because I'm not sure how to interpret its history display. I think it's telling me that in my last 2 month billing period I used around $250 worth of power, while my power bill said I used around $170 worth. That has me scratching my head - maybe my meter has gone wonky but I'm sure not going to phone anybody about it.



How do you know nothing is turning on and off?

Did you put the correct price of elec into the unit?  Or maybe you should compare kWh to kWh.


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## johnny1720 (Jul 7, 2014)

I have had the Efergy installed for nearly two months.  I just got the bill from 5/28 to 6/27.  It was the lowest consumption I have ever had for 29 days.  652 KwHs or 24.1 KwH per day.  I even ran the AC for a few days.  

The electric dryer and the electric ranger are the real culprit.  


We have been grilling outside and using the clothesline more often.


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## sloeffle (Jul 8, 2014)

Is it possible to monitor more than one breaker panel with an the efergy ? I have three breaker panels ( barn, and two in the house ) and would like to track down some of my energy usage. According to my electric company I averaged 65KWH per day in February.


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## maple1 (Jul 8, 2014)

Think you need a monitor for each panel. Unless you want to move them around periodically.


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## Slow1 (Jul 8, 2014)

sloeffle said:


> Is it possible to monitor more than one breaker panel with an the efergy ? I have three breaker panels ( barn, and two in the house ) and would like to track down some of my energy usage. According to my electric company I averaged 65KWH per day in February.



Wow, that is impressive.  You must have some idea where that is going don't you?


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## sloeffle (Jul 8, 2014)

Slow1 said:


> Wow, that is impressive.  You must have some idea where that is going don't you?


Our average daily electric usage for the last year:







Our house is all electric but their are only three occupants. February ( polar vortex ) was very cold so I am sure that contributed to the higher usage due to the GSHP running more.

My gut tells me my top consumers from highest to lowest are:

Hot Water - Wife and kid who love to take long HOT showers. It is a Marathon and set to 130F ( geo provides free hot water in the summer )
Dryer
Geothermal
Dehumidifier

IMHO, hot water is the largest energy user because during the summer ( see above ) my electric bill goes down. We usually run the AC >80F because I tell myself I am saving money by making free hot water. 

Talked to Tom in Maine about a Nyltherm and he did not think it would be worth the money for my specific situation. I still might get the Nyltherm so I can use it during shoulder seasons and when we are not heating / cooling with the GSHP.


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## Cynnergy (Jul 8, 2014)

That seems like a lot of juice for three people, although I don't know the details of your climate and house.  I would definitely invest in an Efergy (or 2 or 3).  We are two here in an all-electric house during the week, and in the summer with no heat or AC, we average 10-20 kWh/day for hot water, cooking and laundry (including electric dryer).  I don't know if you have any days where you haven't used heat or AC that you could use for comparison?


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## maple1 (Jul 8, 2014)

I think it's your Geo.

My 80 gallon electric hwh only costs us around $25/mo., family of 5, at 0.17/kWh.

Would be real curious on what monitoring shows though.


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## sloeffle (Jul 8, 2014)

I don't want to hijack the thread. Will look at the efergy's tonight online and report back my findings.


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## Where2 (Jul 8, 2014)

Cynnergy said:


> We are two here in an all-electric house during the week, and in the summer with no heat or AC, we average 10-20 kWh/day for hot water, cooking and laundry (including electric dryer).  I don't know if you have any days where you haven't used heat or AC that you could use for comparison?



My 3.5 ton, 14 SEER A/C compressor unit is using ~12kWh per day (just the compressor unit).
My electric dryer uses ~4kWh per load.
Water heater consumption is all relative to incoming temp, outgoing temp and gallons used. I found I came in very inexpensively with 77°F city water heated to ~126°F. The month I measured my water heater, my average was around 3kWh per day for two adults in the house.


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## johnny1720 (Jul 9, 2014)

sloeffle said:


> .



Sloeffle where are you located?  Do you have city water?  

I am in western new your and during polar vortex i was using 120 KWH per day.


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## sloeffle (Jul 9, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> Sloeffle where are you located?  Do you have city water?
> 
> I am in western new your and during polar vortex i was using 120 KWH per day.


I live about 30 miles north of Columbus Ohio in Morrow County. We are on city water. We have a wood burning furnace that we heat with when the temps get really cold. However the geo would of ran during the day while we were gone.


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## Highbeam (Jul 9, 2014)

Three panels eh? It appears that you only have one meter so I suspect a main panel and two subpanels. Buy one efergy and monitor the main panel. That will capture the amount of juice passing through to each subpanel for a "total".

If you somehow have multiple service drops then each would be metered you would need three monitors.


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## johnny1720 (Jul 9, 2014)

sloeffle said:


> I live about 30 miles north of Columbus Ohio in Morrow County. We are on city water. We have a wood burning furnace that we heat with when the temps get really cold. However the geo would of ran during the day while we were gone.



Well that makes me feel a little better.  I have a well pump which uses probably 5-10 kwh per day. 

I have a pellet stove that will almost heat the house.  However that means 2 bags of pellets at $10. 

I think I might install my efergy directly onto my geothermal this winter.  So I know exactly what it is costing me.


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## woodgeek (Jul 9, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> Well that makes me feel a little better.  I have a well pump which uses probably 5-10 kwh per day.
> 
> I have a pellet stove that will almost heat the house.  However that means 2 bags of pellets at $10.
> I think I might install my efergy directly onto my geothermal this winter.  So I know exactly what it is costing me.



You needn't leave it there all winter, but just for a month and then divide usage by your heating degree days that month.  You can then project what it would be for a whole winter by multiplying by heating degree days for the whole winter..


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## johnny1720 (Jul 9, 2014)

woodgeek said:


> You needn't leave it there all winter, but just for a month and then divide usage by your heating degree days that month.  You can then project what it would be for a whole winter by multiplying by heating degree days for the whole winter..



Not so cut and dry, last winter the earth loop got down to 22 degrees or there abouts.  The COP decreases as the loop temp drops below the design temp.  When the cop drops the electric resistance "can" engage more often.   

The outside temp was -26 or so and the wind was fierce.  The design temp for my system I think was -15.  

After the outside temps moderated the loops went back up to about 30 degrees.


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## sloeffle (Jul 10, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Three panels eh? It appears that you only have one meter so I suspect a main panel and two subpanels. Buy one efergy and monitor the main panel. That will capture the amount of juice passing through to each subpanel for a "total".
> 
> If you somehow have multiple service drops then each would be metered you would need three monitors.


It is a weird but good setup. The drop form electric company comes into the barn. That is tied into two disconnect boxes. One is for the house and the other is for the barn. We put an addition on my house a few years ago and ran electric from the barn panel to a generator panel in the barn and then to a separate panel for the house addition because I wanted to be able to run a generator for at least half my house.

Of course you can now lease a generator hookup from the electric company that goes on the back of your meter and would power the whole house.


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## sloeffle (Jul 10, 2014)

johnny1720 said:


> Well that makes me feel a little better.  I have a well pump which uses probably 5-10 kwh per day.
> 
> I have a pellet stove that will almost heat the house.  However that means 2 bags of pellets at $10.
> 
> I think I might install my efergy directly onto my geothermal this winter.  So I know exactly what it is costing me.


Rough Math - I was probably using 8KWH a day just to keep the water thawed out for my sheep and chickens during our wonderful polar vortex of 2014.


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## johnny1720 (Aug 10, 2014)

Since the effergy install we have had mild temps and no ac use. 

In the month of July we used an average of 28 kwh per day, in June it was down to 24 kwh per day.  

The effergy is a nice tool, a little addictive but nice.


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