# Shop lighting recommendations



## NH_Wood (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey guys - Happy New Year!

I'm getting ready to start a workshop renovation - it's an outbuilding, about 20'x16'. Been looking at overhead shop lights and wondering in anyone has any good recommendations. I'm thinking 4 sets of 4' double florescent lights arranged in two rows. Before I spend the money, I want to make sure I'll get good light (I'll have bench lights as well). Any thoughts welcome and I'm not set on the number of lights now either - if I need more, fine - would like to get it right the first time before I start the wiring. Thanks! Cheers!


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## Warm_in_NH (Jan 1, 2014)

My garage / shop is just a few feet longer. I think that'll be plenty, I only have two sets of 4 footers (4 total bulbs) in the center area, they're sufficient for that space. My work bench runs along two walls (L shaped) that's where it was when I bought the house. I have single bulb 2' fixtures over that, minute  on th  bottom Sid  o  My tool shelf about 2' a big  the work surface, like nude  cabinet lights, these are the key ones to have.

Cool thing to do. My shop has several outlets in the ceiling. Keeps cords out  of the  way and allows you to add lights either  permanent or temporary whenever you want. I would've  never  thought of doing it, but now that I have them, I wouldn't have a shop without them.

If you have a "ReStore" store (habitat for humanity thrift shop) I've had lot of luck finding stuff there. Also, depending on temperature, remember standard florescent lights can be stubborn on cold starts.

My .02 worth, good luck.


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## greg13 (Jan 1, 2014)

Depending on what you plan on doing in there, you may want to jump to 6 fixtures. You can never have too much light in a shop. Pay attention to the fixture, there are some that will not be effected too bad by cold temperatures. I agree, Switched outlets in the ceiling is the way to go.


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## semipro (Jan 1, 2014)

Several thoughts:
I like 4ft. T8s in my shop, 4 per fixture.  The electronic ballasts run T8s are better about cold starting than were the old transformer type ballasts.  My only gripe about the new ballasts is that they do create some interference with my OTA TV reception. 
The type of ceiling you have impacts how many lights you need.  I had adequate lighting in my shop until I pulled down the drywall exposing the trusses.  I basically ended up doubling the number of lights to make up for the loss of reflectance off the ceiling.  Fixtures with reflectors may help with that. 
Bare fluorescent bulbs in a shop tend to get broken unless they're covered or protected somehow especially if your ceiling height is low.  I've had to run from my shop a few times after breaking an overhead bulb.  They make protective acrylic tubes that can be placed around the lamps but they're relatively expensive.  Some fixtures feature metal cages that protect the bulbs. 
As said above you won't regret putting in too many lights and adding them later is easier if you have switched receptacles on the ceiling. 
Think about where you'll be working particularly WRT workbenches.  If workbenches are against a wall you'll need light directly above to prevent problems with shadows.


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## seige101 (Jan 2, 2014)

Most importantly what is your ceiling height?


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2014)

You'll want to buy 8' long, 4 bulb, t8 fixtures from home depot. You then choose bulbs and you want 4000-5000 kelvin tubes which are not blue and not yellow. The bulbs and fixtures are rated to work to zero degrees F and that's fine. These ballasts dont buzz, flicker, or cause radio interference. Each fixture uses 1 amp so you can put a lot on one circuit.

For light level, the old guys want 150 lumens per SF. I've only got 50 lumens per SF and it is fine for general light but I also use task lighting. Each tube makes about 2700 lumens so that 4 bulb t8 fixture makes 10,800 lumens and your shop has 320 SF so you need between 3 and 5 of the fixtures.


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2014)

seige101 said:


> Most importantly what is your ceiling height?


 
In a 20x16 we can assume a standard ceiling height of 10 feet. This is likely a 2-car garage.


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## ironpony (Jan 2, 2014)

I agree with semipro and highbeam, very good advice....


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## stee6043 (Jan 2, 2014)

I did a fair amount of research before installing new lighting in my garage last summer.  I ended up with 3 rows of 16' of lights (2 each of the 4 bulb 8' T8's w/ 48" bulbs) and then four stand alone 4' units along the sides of my third stall and over my workbench.  These lights are split between two circuits, two switches.

I have a total of (32) of the 48" T8 bulbs.  I run 3500K bulbs.

It's a lot of light but now that I have it I don't know how I ever lived without it.  Prior to this I had a total of three 48" fixtures in the garage, two T8 bulbs each.  www.garagejournal.com is a cool site to get loads of info on lighting.

Ohh...my garage is a standard three stall.  10' ceiling.  My two cents is that you will not regret adding a little more lighting than you think you need.


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## PapaDave (Jan 2, 2014)

I agree with needing task lighting to avoid shadows. It's one of my priorities when we redo the kitchen.
My shop is about 30x30 and I have 12 outlets in the ceiling, and each row of 4 is on a separate switch next to the door. I'm rethinking the type of lights and may attempt LEDs.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2014)

semipro said:


> Several thoughts:
> I like 4ft. T8s in my shop, 4 per fixture.  The electronic ballasts run T8s are better about cold starting than were the old transformer type ballasts.  My only gripe about the new ballasts is that they do create some interference with my OTA TV reception.
> The type of ceiling you have impacts how many lights you need.  I had adequate lighting in my shop until I pulled down the drywall exposing the trusses.  I basically ended up doubling the number of lights to make up for the loss of reflectance off the ceiling.  Fixtures with reflectors may help with that.
> Bare fluorescent bulbs in a shop tend to get broken unless they're covered or protected somehow especially if your ceiling height is low.  I've had to run from my shop a few times after breaking an overhead bulb.  They make protective acrylic tubes that can be placed around the lamps but they're relatively expensive.  Some fixtures feature metal cages that protect the bulbs.
> ...


I have a friend that can no longer listed to FM radio in his shop due to the incredible noise created by his T8 lighting. If he could do it again he would have put in conventional fluorescents.


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2014)

T8 lighting IS conventional flourescent. What else are you referring too?

Some ballasts in cheap fixtures are "commercial" rated and those ballasts are not designed to suppress the interference. You can add filters but the better way to go is to use non-commercial fixtures and ballasts.

Other folks have used an FM antenna to improve their reception and eliminate the interference.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2014)

He had T12 standard 8 ft fixtures in his old shop with no radio interference at all. The problem came with the new lighting. It is not uncommon with T8 fixtures. I suspect he has the commercial T8 ballasts in his new shop. They came from Home Depot. He has tried filters and and antenna. So far, they haven't worked. There are tons of threads on the issue. Some folks have had success, others not. 
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21977&showall=1
http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...cs/199186/Radio_Interference_and_T8_Fluo.html


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## semipro (Jan 2, 2014)

begreen said:


> He had T12 standard 8 ft fixtures in his old shop with no radio interference at all. The problem came with the new lighting. It is not uncommon with T8 fixtures. I suspect he has the commercial T8 ballasts in his new shop. They came from Home Depot. He has tried filters and and antenna. So far, they haven't worked. There are tons of threads on the issue. Some folks have had success, others not.
> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21977&showall=1
> http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...cs/199186/Radio_Interference_and_T8_Fluo.html


I have the same problem with digital TV reception on certain channels (PBS unfortunately). 
I've tried no less than 4 types/brands of electronic ballasts including commercial and residential. 
I've also tried different chokes/filters on my TV without success. 
I used to have T12s with magnetic ballasts and had no problems other than slow cold starts.


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## begreen (Jan 2, 2014)

Why do I suspect there are thousands of made in China ballast showing up in these fixtures?


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## semipro (Jan 2, 2014)

begreen said:


> Why do I suspect there are thousands of made in China ballast showing up in these fixtures?


I believe at least some of units I bought (Lithonia maybe?) were made in Mexico.  
I probably made a point of buying those rather than the Chinese version.


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## jebatty (Jan 3, 2014)

I built my shop in 2009 and used 4' T8 32 watt fixtures from either HD or Menards, electronic ballasts. T8's when new are rated right around 2800-2900 lumens, and output falls over time. There are websites which provide lighting design for workshops, including lumens, color, spacing, etc. I don't think it will be long before LED's will overtake T8's in initial cost, light output and electricity operating cost.


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## Wooden Head (Jan 3, 2014)

My shop is 20X15, Walls are 3/4 plywood. ceiling is drywall. All painted white. Task lighting: 2/100 watt fluorescent bulbs above each work bench, 2/150watt  halogen fixtures above table saw , T8 fixture above sliding miter, swivel round fluorescent with magnifier on bench next to drill press.


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2014)

begreen said:


> He had T12 standard 8 ft fixtures in his old shop with no radio interference at all. The problem came with the new lighting. It is not uncommon with T8 fixtures. I suspect he has the commercial T8 ballasts in his new shop. They came from Home Depot. He has tried filters and and antenna. So far, they haven't worked. There are tons of threads on the issue. Some folks have had success, others not.
> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21977&showall=1
> http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...cs/199186/Radio_Interference_and_T8_Fluo.html


 
Seems you either have this issue or you absolutely do not. I wonder if there are other factors like better wiring practices, perhaps the radio on the same circuit as the lights, proximity, etc.

T12s are not standard anymore, in fact, I do believe that the bulbs are being phased out. The t8 is standard and the t5HO or even t8HO are the higher lumens per watt option.


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## razerface (Jan 3, 2014)

Check out the newer T5's.  Small and bright. I used high bay T8 lights. They have great reflectors, that can be adjusted to throw some of the light up into the rafters. You must have tall enough building for high bay lighting.


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## stee6043 (Jan 4, 2014)

razerface said:


> Check out the newer T5's.  Small and bright. I used high bay T8 lights. They have great reflectors, that can be adjusted to throw some of the light up into the rafters. You must have tall enough building for high bay lighting.



T5's are way too bright for most residential applications as far as I can tell.  I checked them out at the local big box store before I went with T8's.  T5's are ungodly bright even at 10' high.  They do look cool but man those things are like looking directly into the sun.


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## flyingcow (Jan 4, 2014)

Just had T-5's put in my 35x75- 16ft ceilings. They are bright, lowered my elec bill. Had  8ft T-8's, maybe T-12's? These were 8ft 2 pin bulbs. Cold weather start. 


Love them, but they knock out FM reception on weak stations. Had 14 8ft'ers. replaced with 14 (4ft) T-5's. 3 rows, each row with it's own switch.  Did get a rebate of $15 per light thru Efficiency of Maine. Really like the T-5's, but you wouldn't need many for a 10ft ceiling.


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## windchaser (Jan 4, 2014)

Is your shop always going to be heated? Reason I ask is double florescent don't work so well in the extreme cold.


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## seige101 (Jan 5, 2014)

windchaser said:


> Is your shop always going to be heated? Reason I ask is double florescent don't work so well in the extreme cold.


Thats almost something to not worry about unless you buy a dirt cheap fixture from a box store or some used fixtures off craigslist. Most modern t-8 florescent lights are good to 15* some even down to 0* start temperatures. Older t-8s and especially t12s didn't like the cold at all.

t5's don't mind the cold, but i would stay away from them in this situation with a low ceiling height

I would go with something like a 4' t-8 4 lamp wrap around light fixture this way the lens protects the lamps and diffuses the light a little to avoid glare or hot spots.


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## jebatty (Jan 5, 2014)

I built my shop with 14' sidewalls partly for the reason that the height would allow me to haul around 8' and 10' lumber without knocking out the lights on the ceiling. Love it. 

You also might consider activating all of the ceiling fixtures from a single wall switch, but then also having pull switches on some or all of the fixtures so that you can have "on" only the ones needed from time to time based on your use of the shop and need for light.


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## Highbeam (Jan 5, 2014)

I too built with 14' high ceilings and tried to anticipate lighting needs. My theory which has worked pretty well so far is that I don't want all 1800 SF lighted to the same level that I need for my actual work area. I picked a light level (lumens/SF) that allows very good walking, searching for junk, and large project type work and then have thousands (alot) of outlets all over to allow my portable high intensity light for a detail job. I also have a switched fixture as a quick run in and get something light. The overall lighting burns over 1000 watts so doubling that is getting into my hamburger money.

On the cold thing. That is obsolete info. The current home depot t8 ballasts are electronic and rated for 0 degrees F startup. At temps that low I do not want to be out there anyway. When temps are below freezing there is a noticable warm up period before full brightness. No noise or radio problems at cold temps or warm temps. Instant on.

I too remember the days of flicking the light switch on and off trying to get the ballast to fire.


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## jebatty (Jan 5, 2014)

Ditto on outlets. I have 120vac duplex outlets every 8 feet along the walls, and right above each of those I have a single 240ac outlet; also a 240ac drop cord outlet on a cord reel hanging from the middle of the ceiling going to the table saw. All of my major tools have the motors wired for 240ac and all are mounted on casters so that each can be moved in place where needed and then shoved back against the wall when not needed. Plus a workbench almost the full length of one sidewall with a permanently mounted 240ac radial arm saw, and drawers on slides under the workbench to hold tools or whatever. The shop has a 200 amp 240vac service, plenty of space for additional circuits, a 50 amp 240ac outlet for the MIG welder and a 30 amp 240ac outlet for miscellaneous big power need items.

It only took me 63 years to finally get a shop that had been a dream for as long as I can remember. Forever thankful for continuing good health, a beautiful wife, and a loving family with grandchildren.


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## NH_Wood (Jan 15, 2014)

Dang! I just came to the DIY forum (rarely do) to ask a question on table saws and found my post on shop lighting!! I posted in the Gear forum, which I guess didn't make sense, and never saw it - didn't realized it was moved here - I'll give a read to the posts and see what you guys had to offer - thanks for all the posts and sorry for not responding - thought the post never made it to the site! Cheers!


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