# Harman XXV taking too long ignite



## escobarmj (Oct 25, 2008)

My igniter on my XXV has been taking longer to start lately. I have only had the stove for a few weeks. When I start the stove, the burn pot fills all the way to the top before the pellets ignite. I had to set the feed to 1 to avoid having unburned pellets fall into the ash pan. I gave the burn pot a thorough cleaning. I also opened the door to the igniter and cleaned that comparment out. Is it normal for the burn pot to fill to the point of spilling pellets? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## imacman (Oct 25, 2008)

Well, I don't own a Harmon, but that doesn't sound right.  

My Astoria gets about 1/4 full before the ignitor gets the pellets hot enough.  It's never come close to filling the burn pot.


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## flashbang (Oct 25, 2008)

My Advance fills about 1/4-1/2 full then the smoke and fire happen in about 4-6 minutes. Setting is at 3. I heard on this board the setting is much like a govener in auto mode for start only then will feed at a higher rate to get to your set temp.


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## escobarmj (Oct 25, 2008)

flashbang said:
			
		

> My Advance fills about 1/4-1/2 full then the smoke and fire happen in about 4-6 minutes. Setting is at 3. I heard on this board the setting is much like a govener in auto mode for start only then will feed at a higher rate to get to your set temp.



My auger turns continuously until the stove ignites. Does the advance do the same, or does the auger stop at some point and wait for a flame temp? I am wondering if my circuit board needs a dipswitch setting change?


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## flashbang (Oct 25, 2008)

Dip it if you must. My auger does not spin non stop.


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## cantman (Oct 25, 2008)

Have you scraped your burn pot thoroughly?  Make sure all the air
holes are clear.  Also, tap on the side of the burn pot with your
scraper to dislodge any ashes/flyash.  Lastly, make sure the burn pot clean out
is not filled with ashes.


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## escobarmj (Oct 25, 2008)

I did scrape the burn pot thoroughly, but have not tried tapping the sides with the scraper. I will try that tomorrow. I think that I did clean the burn pot clean out, but only used my finger. I will try the vacuum also.


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## Kenny1 (Oct 25, 2008)

Well, give the whole pot a good scraping, and also clean out under the pot.  On my P61, there are two wing nuts that allow access under the pot.  That is where the ignitor is located.  If it is full of ash, it will take longer to ignite.  Check you manual, it describes this better than I can.

I do notice that my stove will light faster after the 1 ton cleaning, and when it is getting dirty it will take longer to ignite (yes, sometimes there are pellets pushed out of the burn pot).

Cheers

Kenny


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## Kenny1 (Oct 25, 2008)

Oh, and here is a cleaning guide for the P38/P61 - yours may be similar.  Also the photos are a nice reference.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/maintenance/p38&p61cleaninginstructions;.pdf


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## BignBeefy (Oct 25, 2008)

Dont forget the 4 holes near the auger in the pot I never knew they were there till I used a big flathead as a scraper for nooks and crannys LOL


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## GVA (Oct 25, 2008)

No we mean REALLY scrape it................ the klinkers that form on the burnpot sometimes are not easily removed.....
Make sure the intake flapper is swinging free too.
Tapping the burnpot loosens the ash build up on the igniter.
A quick way to clean the ash under the burnpot that you can't get to with your finger, is to put a shop vac set to blow air, and blow it into the fresh air intake with the access cover removed under burnpot.
I would do this at the end of the season
DISCLAIMER:
*******Do this with the stove door closed, the stove off (or in test to have the comb blower running exhausting the dust that is created)and the stove cool********


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## lecomte38 (Oct 25, 2008)

Your auger should not turn continuously until it starts.  you have a control problem.  My insert fills the pot about 1/4 full then stops until the flames start ( about 4 minutes)


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## escobarmj (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks all, I did some additional scraping and tapped the burn pot. Seems to work better. Kenny, thanks for the cleaning guide.


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## Hammerjoe (Oct 26, 2008)

That sounds like the dreaded dead ignitor syndrome that the Harmans suffer from.

From your reports the ignitor is about to blow anytime soon.
From my experience (believe me, I am on my sixth ignitor on my accentra) if the stove fails to ignite, or if the pot fills with pellets then it means that the ignitor is not producing enough heat.

You should contact your dealer to make sure they have ignitors because you will need one soon and the really cold days are coming.


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## Tom D (Oct 26, 2008)

had my harman xxv for a year now and love the stove but i just
replaced igniter. have 2 years left on warranty. i guess when it
is up i will have to buy couple extra.


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## escobarmj (Oct 26, 2008)

After a thorough cleaning of the burn pot and the ignitor compartment, I lit the stove twice and found that it takes between 6 and 7 minutes to ignite. It also seems that ignition is preceeded by lots of smoke. That could be because the burn pot is full of pellets. Fortunately the stove is smart enough to stop feeding pellets until it senses heat. I am interested if any other harman owners are seeing ignition times in the 6 to 7 minute range? If this is totally abnormal, then I will contact the dealer on Monday. I suspect that he will do absolutely nothing until I report that it no longer functions. 

Assuming that the ignitor ultimately fails, I am wondering if this is something that I will have to wait for the dealer to do, or is it easy enough to get the part and swap it? I hate to wait the typical 2 weeks for this especially since i just had the thing installed last month.


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## cantman (Oct 26, 2008)

I've never timed my igniter on the XXV, but 6 to 7
minutes sound about right to me.  The chamber does
fill with some smoke until the pellets "catch fire".


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## Bushbuck (Oct 26, 2008)

I don't know if this is the same thing, but I will tell you what I just went thru on my P61.
The stove took a while to light and then after a couple weeks was timing out and I had to keep trying to start it. My stove was also dumping quite a few pellets into the ash pan without lighting. It got to a point that it would not light after 45 minutes of trying. This was on a stove about a month old.
My dealer installed a new igniter.. Same problem. They tested the igniter and it was heating correctly. We had conversations with Harman back and forth, and I will say they were real helpful.
First, on the cradle that holds the ignitor, there is a piece that looks like a stick of gum. Come to find out that stick of gum looking flat piece was installed backwards. we flipped that around the right way and reinstalled only to find out it still did not light..
Then upon inspection we noticed about a 1/8" gap between the ignitor and the burn pot. Come to find out due to the flat piece of metal I was talking about being installed incorrectly, it bent the cradle just enough to allow to much air to pass between the ignitor and the burn pot.
We switched out the cradle that hold the ignitor and the new cradle put the ignitor much closer to the pot..
Success!! this stove now starts right up in under 5 minutes every time. 
Just that little extra space between the ignitor and the pot made a huge difference. This was on a 2008 stove. I don't know if your ignitor is set up the same way. but it may be worth a look..


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## tinkabranc (Oct 26, 2008)

I have the same stove but never really timed when it fires up.
Usually ignites around 5-6 minutes tho.


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## escobarmj (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I took my ignitor out and it looked like it was installed properly.  I was curious as to how to disconnect the ignitor since the connectors are so far inside the stove. I hope that the burn pot doesn't have to be removed.  Can the connectors be pulled out the back of the unit? Looks like they are buried under high temp silicone? If that is the case, then it would be relatively easy to replace an ignitor. Has anyone done this on a XXV?

Thanks again.


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## greeby (Nov 2, 2008)

I've just burned my 7th bag of pellets in my new XXV and was surprised to see a ton of clinkers and unburned pellets in my ash pan.

I've been burning the stove on room temp mode with the temp set to about 75, feed at 3.5, fan switch on high and the blower control set to about 1/2 way between H and L and igniter on auto. 

I've been scraping the burn pot every time I poured a new bag of pellets in (scrape the burn pot and heat exchanger and tap the side of the burn pot to get the ash off of the igniter). 

I have been noticing that when the stove lights off I get a HUGE fire in the burn pot (so much fire in fact that it is "rolling over" the top of the stove and "licking" the glass on the door). This has been causing a huge amout of soot and ash on the door glass. Having never owned a pellet stove I thought this was normal...but after much reading here I am thinking that this is a bad thing.

I am also seeing ash being expelled from the stove vent pipe outside (not a huge amount but enough that I has to hose off the back porch today).

So today we did a thourough cleaning. We scraped the burn pot and heat exchnager and vacuumed out the burn pot, igniter area and exhaust as well as all the areas inside the stove.

After I cleaned the stove I set the stove to stove temp mode and left the other  settings as they were.

When I started the stove again I kept the door open to see how many pellets were pushed into the burn pot before it stopped and waited for ignition. Well, the auger never stopped pushing pellets into the fire pot. When the fire pot was reaching full i started removing pellets by the handfull and throwing them back into the hopper so the pot never got over 1/3 full.

Once the igniter turned off I put the stove in manual mode.

Ignition took about 4 minutes and the fire has not gotten anywhere near as high as I have seen it in the past few days. Mater of fact it's only reached about 1/2 way up the heat exchanger.

The stove has been burning happily for about 4 hours just chugging along with a nice fire.

So I'm guessing that I should call the dealer tomorrow and get them out here?


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## escobarmj (Nov 2, 2008)

greeby said:
			
		

> I've just burned my 7th bag of pellets in my new XXV and was surprised to see a ton of clinkers and unburned pellets in my ash pan.
> 
> I've been burning the stove on room temp mode with the temp set to about 75, feed at 3.5, fan switch on high and the blower control set to about 1/2 way between H and L and igniter on auto.
> 
> ...



Let me see if I understand this. The burn pot is overfilling in under 4 minutes? Also, you are getting ignition in about 4 minutes? Sounds like the auger is feeding way too fast. Mine takes around 7 minutes to fill prior to ignition. when my ignitor is slow to start the auger actually stops feeding for a few minutes.


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## GVA (Nov 2, 2008)

greeby said:
			
		

> When I started the stove again I kept the door open to see how many pellets were pushed into the burn pot before it stopped and waited for ignition. Well, the auger never stopped pushing pellets into the fire pot. When the fire pot was reaching full i started removing pellets by the handfull and throwing them back into the hopper so the pot never got over 1/3 full.
> 
> So I'm guessing that I should call the dealer tomorrow and get them out here?


Yes you should:
for one the auger should not keep feeding pellets with the door open let alone Ignite.


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## greeby (Nov 2, 2008)

From everything I am reading here it appears that the burn pot should only fill to about 1/3 full and then stop until ignition.

The stove usually takes about 6 or 7 minutes to start and then there is a ton of smoke when it does start. When the stove fires there is a HUGE flame that often reaches the front glass. This coupled with the fact there were a ton of unburned pellets in the ash bucket makes me think there is a problem.

Today...when I scooped out the burn pot to about 1/3 full today when the stove was igniting the stove started right up with no smoke and it took less than 5 minutes. The stove has burned at what I would think is a normal level all day and the basement is about the perfect temperature.

Does your stove have giant flames that touch the glass?


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## cantman (Nov 2, 2008)

greeby,

Was the draft checked by the dealer?  What is the flue vent configuration like? (length,size,90's,45's,horizontal,verticle)


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## toastyinri (Nov 2, 2008)

Mike J said:
			
		

> Thanks all, I did some additional scraping and tapped the burn pot. Seems to work better. Kenny, thanks for the cleaning guide.



One other thing to do is to clean out the air holes in the burn pot.....a metal paper clip works well...make sure you get the lower holes that go half way across the burn pot on the left near the bottom....those are the ignitor holes...if they are clogged your ignition will take longer.


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## DOBS (Nov 2, 2008)

Mine ignites at about 1/3 full after 4 minutes or so. The pellets don't continuously feed non-stop during start up. The pellets never seem to get more than 1 1/2 - 2 " away from the edge of the burn pot - ever. I sometimes get a high flame, but it rarely curls over and touches the glass, but it does get fairly close at times.


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## greeby (Nov 3, 2008)

cantman said:
			
		

> greeby,
> 
> Was the draft checked by the dealer?  What is the flue vent configuration like? (length,size,90's,45's,horizontal,verticle)



I wasn't home when the stove was installed. My wife says they did a test burn. Don't know if he checked the draft.

Flue = 90 at the stove to a 4 foot vertical section to another 90 to the thimble, thru the wall to a horozontal section on the outside (maybe 18 inches?) to the cap which is turned down.


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## HBW3 (Nov 8, 2008)

I have the same problem. New stove installed in July ,08. First stove would not light at all.
Dealer exchanged everything in stove until I said I wanted another stove. 
Second stove lit first time but took quite a long time. 
Since then I have had some problems starting the stove after cleaning. Seems to light OK when some ash is in the tray.
I think this is the best stove design I have seen on the market as far as maintenance is concerned. 
I am however not happy with the auto ignition design.
My stove was installed by a dealer, while I was home. Located in the basement they used 4" vent pipe to outside. This consists of a 90 deg elbow, 6' horizontal, 90 deg elbow. out wall , tee for clean-out, 18' horizontal, and cap. Outside air also hooked up.
The low draft adjustment would only go down to .59 on their meter. The manual states that this is not a real problem.
I have only used the stove at night when I am home. When in operation the stove starts OK even when cooled down and no visible hot ash. I am not sure what to do at this point so I am watching this forum to see what other people come up with.

One other thing I have since discovered is that with the outside air unhooked from the stove the draft meter reading goes down.
I purchased a meter on Ebay to monitor this. Low draft drops from .59 to .50 when outside air is unhooked.
Seems that Harmans 2 3/8" flex tubing and cap is causing some restriction. The length of run is 6' horizontal from stove to 90 deg bend, to outside. This is less than the 15' max before a 3" supply is needed.
Either way it does not seem to change how well the stove ignites.

The dip switches on the board are something I would be interested in knowing what they do. The installer had a sheet listing the position of the switches for different stoves when the first stove was installed and not lighting but I did not get a copy.
If they change the feed cycle timing this may help in getting the pellets started before the tray is over filled.

If anyone has any helpful information please share it.


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## toastyinri (Nov 8, 2008)

"One other thing I have since discovered is that with the outside air unhooked from the stove the draft meter reading goes down. 
I purchased a meter on Ebay to monitor this. Low draft drops from .59 to .50 when outside air is unhooked. 
Seems that Harmans 2 3/8” flex tubing and cap is causing some restriction. The length of run is 6’ horizontal from stove to 90 deg bend, to outside. This is less than the 15’ max before a 3” supply is needed. 
Either way it does not seem to change how well the stove ignites. "

I'm wondering if your outside air flex tubing with a horizontal run up and 90 deg. out is the cause of the problem.  Unless I'm mistaken, shouldn't it be a straight run out from the back of the stove?  Try this...with stove running...go outside and put your hand under the air intake...you should be able to feel it sucking in air..you might even hear it too.  One other question.  Does your outside air flex tubing terminate 3 feet or more to the side or below the vent pipe outlet?
I'll assume that there was a reason to run it up and out?


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## HBW3 (Nov 9, 2008)

I have just redone the air intake. The reason for the up and out is because it is installed in a basement.
The new air intake is 2 7/8" I.D. exhaust pipe from a muffler shop. then 3" dia. alum. dryer vent.
It has now reduced the restriction to near 0. Inside air to outside air .02 water column difference.
I would not have known of this restriction if I did not have the gauge. 
The draft was only checked by the installers after all piping was installed. 
Low draft while running is now .58 water column. I guess this is the best it will get.

My real concern and only complaint is the problem with auto ignition. 
As I stated earler when clean of any ash and cold the stove may not ignite. 
Pellets feed for 4 min. pause about 4 min. 
lf I do not get ignition I turn off stove. Set ig to manual, turn on the stove and lite the pellets with starter jel.
This way the pellets will ont feed until a certain temp is achieved. 
I wish this was the case in auto mode. If no ignition after first 4 min. feed, and pause 4 min. the likely hood of raw pellets falling into the ash pan is good. I have had this happen when first trying the stove. The stove did lite but not until over feeding the tray.
Because of this I only run at night when I am home and can monitor the first cold startup.
I then set to auto ignition.
I have never had a problem restarting after first fire and ash is in the pan.
I guess their may still be hot embers in the ash helping to restart fire.

Their has to be a fix to the auto ignition problem. 
I have read on line of other people having this same problem.
So please someone post a fix or adjustment if it is out there.
I cannot believe that Harman could sell this many stoves and not address this issue.
My dealer cannot help, I know as much about the operation of this stove as they do. 

Harman needs to have a tech line or a web site to address customer concerns.


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## Hammerjoe (Nov 9, 2008)

Your ignitor is dead, call your dealer.


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## DOBS (Nov 27, 2008)

Thanksgiving morning. Shut the stove down to make her nice and shiny to show it off to all the guests coming over. Went to start it back up, and nothing. Emptied the pellets out of the hopper several times, scraped, tapped. Nothing. Hopper would go through the 4 minute cycles till the igniter finally timed out. After each cycle, the area over the igniter was warm enough to keep my fingers on it. I've burned about 3/4 ton since new in mid October, only shutting it down to clean it. I did notice that the ignition time was getting longer each time, but it always started with-in 6 minutes tops...

Finally decided to take the igniter cover off to see what was happening (or not) and presto! The compartment was completely clogged with ash! Tons of it!  :bug:  I've been cleaning the stove every weekend, but it never dawned on me to clean this part out... I will be from now on.

Put it back together and it lit up with-in 3 minutes. Woo Hoo.    Back in business.


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## Bank (Nov 27, 2008)

Hello All, new poster here in Southern Maine, I purchased a Harman Accentra in April and purchased 5 tons of CleanFire pellets from www.pelletsales.com..Very happy with pellets and very warm... However, after burning 30 bags the burn pot filled up big time and would not ignite, I tried this twice...I called my very mechanically inclined buddy who installed the stove and he told me..."oh there's two wing nuts under the burn pot, this is your igniter, open it them up and vaccuum out the ash"...Sure enough, the machine fired up in six minutes with the right amount of pellets in the pot...It got so hot today that I had to turn it off this AM..I have a new home with very good windows and insulation..The thing burns like the sun


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