# Opinions on Back up gas generator



## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

Hey everybody... looking for some advice/insight on a gas portable generator for our home. 

In a previous house, we were lucky to have a permanent NG back up generator. 

Our new house is not so fortunate and we didn't want to go to the expense of installing a permanent back up. 

We recently had some work done on a bathroom and the electrical panel was upgraded so we had them put in a transfer panel and wire it for a portable generator hook up. I am interested in powering our fridge, gas water heater, well pump, gas furnace fan, lights, fish tank. I am looking at in the 7-10K watt range. 

I've narrowed down to 3 (but am happy to take other suggestion). Generac is leading the charge with 2 good models (XG8000E and the XT8000E) but the troybilt XP 7000

My question is this: I am leaning between either of the generacs 8000 series. There are some subtle differences between the two. I have posted a blurb from Lowes or Home Depot below but the big differences are:

Xg8000 has the OHVI, american made (i believe) engine that is highest rated 
Xt8000 has the OHV, probably foreign made but does have idle control to help conserve fuel

My big question is what is more important... My gut is to do with the better engine but that throttle feature is pretty slick and I realize i'm probably buying a little extra generator than absolutely necessary. 

Opinions, thoughts, advice is greatly appreciated. 

Thanks. 

-Matt


Blurb from HD site on the 2 series:
Generac’s XT8000E and XG8000E portable generators are two very comparable units. Both of these portable generators feature a 120/240, 30 Amp outlet, which features a L14-30R twist-lock receptacle. These receptacles are protected by two 20 Amp circuit breakers. These generators also bestow two 120v, 20 Amp GFCI duplex outlets, however, the XT8000E’s duplex outlets are protected by a 30 amp, 2 pole circuit breaker, whereas the XG8000E is protected by two 30 Amp push-to-reset circuit breakers. Both of these portable generators feature a fuel shut off valve, functional choke, single touch electric start, and low oil shutdown. Furthermore, each unit is AC rated for 8,000 continuous running watts and 66.6 amps at 120v and 33.3 Amps at 240 volts.
There are however, several differences between these two portable generators as well. To start, Generac’s XT8000E features the OHV Engine (420cc), where as the XG8000E utilizes Generac’s OHVI Engine (407cc). Additionally, XT8000E features 10” wide, never-flat wheels and a comfort grip handle with a fold-down mechanism, while the XG8000E features 9.5” semi-solid wheels and a folding/locking handle. While the XT8000E features Idle Control, the XG8000E does not have this feature (Idle Control enables the engine to operate at a normal rpm when there is an electrical load present and automatically reduces the engine to a lower rpm when a load is not present). Moreover, the XT8000E has fuel tank capacity of 7.5 gallons (28.4L) and an 11 hour run time at 50% load, whereas the XG8000E features a fuel tank capacity of 9 gallons (34L) and a 10 hour run time at 50%. Lastly, the XT8000E also comes with a cord set, and the XG8000E comes with the first maintenance kit included.
Please note that there is no difference in the quality of power provided by either of these units. While the OHVI engine utilized in our XG8000E is the longest lasting engine in the industry, the idle control featured on the XT8000E will help the unit conserve fuel and reduce noise levels emitted from the unit. Should you need further assistance deciding which unit you would like to utilize, please contact Generac directly at 888-GENERAC (436-3722) with any further comments, questions, or concerns.


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

In doing some further research, in addition to the Generac XT8000 and GP8000 I mentioned above, there is an XP8000 which is a contractor grade "premium" generator that has both the OHVI engine and the idle control. 

Interesting comment on generac FAQ though. Why would they still recommend the non-idle control for residential? I am leaning towards this newer, XP model now. 

*What are the fundamental differences between XG800E & XP800E? AT same price, which is better option for home emergencies?*

"Our newest XP8000E includes several features that make it a more premium, contractor grade model, including idle control, an integrated lifting eye, full panel GFCI protected outlets, and a 3 year limited warranty.

The XG Series is designed for residential applications, with the PowerBar that monitors available wattage and a 2 year limited warranty. For less frequent home emergency use, we would recommend the XG8000E.
State: WI - Wisconsin

STAFF


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

Yeah... just saw that the XP8000E runs about $2400 while the XG/XT runs more like $1400. The latter choice is more in my price range. So, back to original question: better engine or idle control b/c 2 options. 

The Troybilt XP 7000 with digital monitor is seeming pretty awesome too and costs less at $900. Hmmmmm


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

We have an older ranch and have the Generac 7550EXL (13,500 surge). It came with the house when we bought it 7.5 yrs ago with a little bartering. We also had our electrician install a cord from the panel that we could run through the block wall to outside. He made it so it has a light bulb next to the panel  that lights up when the power is back on, and we have to shut off the incoming feed while using the generator to keep from backfeeding the line. Pretty slick. That said, it runs a fair amount of the house. We have an inlaw quarters downstairs for the FIL with fridge etc. It runs ok but when the 1HP well pump kicks on it bounces off the rev limiter. It has a B&S 15HP industrial engine, works pretty good so far. If I had to buy new, I'd get more than I need. It gets to be a hassle running out for gas every day as it uses a lot of gas. I have 3- 5 gal cans and that will last maybe 1.5 days tops. We have had stretches of up to 6 days in the winter without power so its definitely nice to have a generator!
    If I was born rich instead of good looking I'd have a whole house unit that kicks on automatically.   Maybe have an electrician (or contact Generac?) give some input what size you need? Just my .02


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks for the input. From some rough calculations, I think 7-10kW is enough to do what we need and about max we're willing to pay for. Lastly, since unit is going to live in garage but probably be wheeled out in back yard, weight is a little bit of an issue too. Need it mobile enough.


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

Been happy with the generac brand and maintenance/support?


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

Ours has fold down handles and pneumatic tires that like to go flat. Its probably close to 10 yrs old but not a ton of use. I change the oil using syn before winter and make sure its running good. It came with a battery tender also which is nice, I bought a new battery for it last yr from Apex online, around $50 IIRC. Haven't used any support so I can't comment but it runs when we need it to, and when it runs- it runs around the clock mostly at high rpms until the power is back. You can see the muffler glowing when shes running hard. So far so good. We also keep it stored in the garage until its called into action


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

Get it, and if it ends up not being big enough I'm sure you could get your money back on CL when theres an extended outage and the stores are sold out


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

You run her outside in winter with any issues? Have read a few reviews on the air filter icing up. I am in Michigan... figure you get same cold weather in PA. Just wondering if i need to run in garage with door cracked, etc.


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

Mine sits outside, about 5' from the house. All the snow and ice around it melts away, haven't had any icing issues and it gets into the teens some nights while she's running. FIL likes to stay up until 4am (retired) and watch tv so it has to run through the night


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

I thought about getting a military surplus diesel gen but that could have its own problems. Gelling, algae growing unless you treat the fuel, etc. If I found one for a good price I'd probably try it but when I do look it's when I'm running mine and they are going for premium prices


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## Enzo's Dad (Jul 4, 2014)

I had a 10,000 watt propane system and it turned out to be a huge pain in the ass. I switched to a 5000 watt husky with a Subaru engine. (6250 peak) Why do i love this generator It runs for 12 hours on a little over 4 gallons of fuel. With all the storms we have had in the Northeast this has been a life saver. I have run it for 3 and 4 days in a row. It directly hooks into my electrical panel and operates our furnace, sump pump, well and fridge with no problems. I just dont use as many lights with the generator, and if i do they are low watt energy saver lights. Haveing had 3 different generators for me the number one thing is the fuel economy. I am not constantly going to the gas station, and the propane would blow throught a 300lb tank quickly, and then i was stuck waiting for the propane company to stop by.

I love this little generator one of the best purchases I ever made.


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

Interesting, I'm on Lowes.com reading reviews for the Guardian 11kw and it has great reviews. I guess I can understand using a lot of propane, and at $3K plus install (and tank/propane) thats a hefty size bite to consider. If it were cheaper I'd already have one. So, for now I'll probably just stick with my portable and hope for the best


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## moey (Jul 4, 2014)

If you wanted to go smaller and save some money Im sure you could get by in the 4K-5k watt range. Just keep your well pump off and when you need to cycle it shut off the fridge and the other circuits. We have a 4k generator I keep our well pump off except when we deplete the tank. Seeing as how I have never used the generator in 3 years (except to test) I have to say its worked pretty well and saved some money going this way.


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## Chimney Smoke (Jul 4, 2014)

I honestly don't think you need a 10K generator unless you're doing a whole house system.  For backup emergency power a 5-6K is more than enough.  I have a 3500 watt that is great on gas and runs everything I need it to - not all at once though.  I've run a forced hot air furnace and blower motor, chest freezer, fridge and a couple outlets with lights and she does just fine.


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## D8Chumley (Jul 4, 2014)

That's why I can't justify spending well over 3 grand


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## Exmasonite (Jul 4, 2014)

Hmmm... including the lights, TV, some light kitchen outlets, the wattage calculators I have come up with say 5-6K continuous and pushing 8-8500 peak. I know i will be fighting the battle with using more fuel and more frequent fill ups but don't want to be continuously taxing the generator.

I think the 7-10 range is going to be best. I am starting to like the Troybilt based on the reviews and it's top rated consumer reports (grain of salt taken of course)

http://www.lowes.com/pd_97483-348-3...currentURL=?Ntt=portable+generator&facetInfo=

I have read that the idle control is a non-issue for home backup... only works for intermittent usage. The second there is any significant draw, the throttle goes full so not an important option for backup generators. Better for job site with power tools/intermittent usage.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 4, 2014)

maybe you should get it at a place where you can return it if it doesn't run the well pump.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jul 4, 2014)

Exmasonite said:


> Hmmm... including the lights, TV, some light kitchen outlets, the wattage calculators I have come up with say 5-6K continuous and pushing 8-8500 peak. I know i will be fighting the battle with using more fuel and more frequent fill ups but don't want to be continuously taxing the generator.
> 
> I think the 7-10 range is going to be best. I am starting to like the Troybilt based on the reviews and it's top rated consumer reports (grain of salt taken of course)
> 
> ...


 
   where in norhtwest ct are you i am in canton...And forget the tv when we are out of power cable is also out. My expereience is that is is very rare that the frig, well and sump pump all fire at the same time, bu this little sucker at 6250 peak handles it. I think 8000 watts is plenty, but then again my system originally installed by an electician so i have a complete transfer panel. I have even used an electric dryer on it.


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## Beer Belly (Jul 4, 2014)

If I were looking at back up generators, I'd be awfully tempted to go the propane route.....have a big tank, hook up to the BBQ, and the generator....if you're out of power, the local gas station may also, gotta refuel that puppy.....at least that is what some around here were having issues with when we lost power for 7+ days


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## Enzo's Dad (Jul 4, 2014)

Beer Belly said:


> If I were looking at back up generators, I'd be awfully tempted to go the propane route.....have a big tank, hook up to the BBQ, and the generator....if you're out of power, the local gas station may also, gotta refuel that puppy.....at least that is what some around here were having issues with when we lost power for 7+ days


Had propane ... During a power outage it's nearly impossible to get them here to fill. And the cost to run a propane generator for 7 days cost me a lot more than gas . I al ways have gas here, and during that October storm I was still able to find open gas stations .   It was overkill


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## Beer Belly (Jul 4, 2014)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Had propane ... During a power outage it's nearly impossible to get them here to fill. And the cost to run a propane generator for 7 days cost me a lot more than gas . I al ways have gas here, and during that October storm I was still able to find open gas stations .   It was overkill


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## blades (Jul 5, 2014)

Just a note any of the genneys can be set up as dual fuel units, just got to dig a bit for the ng or propane kits. Or factory installed assemblies.   If you have ng that is what you should run on propane second best. A good ng or propane set up will have a way of heating the fuel or regulator to prevent freeze up in cold weather,  Ya something a lot of them do not pay attention too. Due to the EPA destroying gas and diesel neither are great long term storage options. If you go gas get the aviation fuel- no alky in that so it will  not go bad in 30 days.   The last option is CNG ( compressed natural gas) Less cost than propane in the long run but pricy to set up( set up is about the same as propane equipment wise cost is higher). Biggest detriment here is very limited distribution may not be available in you area.
Back up power that relies on pumps of one type or another to refuel during a serious power outage can leave you in the dark, back up genny or not once you run out of fuel.  Around here all the pumps are electric - power out- dead in water.   That is why I use a dual fuel unit  with NG as primary as that is a constant supply ( always a chance that could get interrupted as well but extremely remote in my area) propane and NG  avoid the carburetor problems, diesel units are injected so no carb just the long term storage of fuel problem described, Haven't seen a gas genny with fuel injection yet. Might be one out there never looked for it.


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## Exmasonite (Jul 5, 2014)

Thanks for the continued info guys... I lived in Harwinton and that house has an 8kW generac propane standby generator. It was awesome during the storms we had there. I am living out in Michigan now. 

Thanks for the info on the tri-fuel. I think i would definitely look long and hard at that. We have NG here for the house. Not sure logistics about getting a line tapped off of that. Otherwise, propane is an option as well. 

After consideration and research, I am leaning towards the Troy Bilt XP 7000 at Lowes. Pretty good reviews, top Consumer Reports (FWIW), and have a lowes close by. Looking like the wheels are crap and need instant upgrade... that's no problem. About 2-300 less than the Generacs I was looking at. I think i will go with the extended warranty sadly... these days, quality control on overseas built engines seems so hit or miss. Will probably go for the piece of mind. 

Will keep you posted once I get it and get it hooked up.


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## mustash29 (Jul 5, 2014)

I have the Briggs & Stratton 5500 / 8250 surge "storm responder" model.  I picked it up when we had a storm coming this way but it turned out to sea at the last minute.  It sat in the box for a full year.

When Irene hit I was dark for 6 days.  The B&S was enough to power my whole house (well pump, oil furnace, fridge, waterbed heater, some lights, microwave, etc). I would start the gen & close the output breaker and let the house come back to life.  After up and running for about 60 seconds supplying myself with 220, I would plug in the 120 plug & 200 feet of romex that was feeding my neighbors fridge, freezer & phone chargers.

I ran like this for 6 days doing 2 to 4 varoius length gen runs per day and burnt about 15-20 gal of fuel.  I started with about 80 gal on hand, so we could have easily gone about 3 weeks if necessary.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 5, 2014)

I have run this joint for three to seven days more times than I want to count (winter and summer) with a pair of 3,250/2,500 gas gennys. One for the base load and one to fire up for the kitchen when it is cooking time. I have a 5,000 watt one that I fire once a month to keep it ready but haven't used in years. Damn thing drinks too much gas. Those thirty buck a day gasoline bills were just too much. Not to mention the times when I couldn't get through the snow to the road to get gas anyway. Three or four gallons a day is a lot better.

Guy down the street put in a huge whole house unit and 500 gallon propane tank five years ago after their first six day outage in the thirty years that they have lived there. The only time it ever has been used is the monthly automatic maintenance firing. Twenty grand, fuel fill included. They are on the leg that hardly ever gets hit. Ours always does.

Don't get carried away.


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## D8Chumley (Jul 6, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Don't get carried away.


Thats some good advice right there BB. Unless I hit the lottery a whole house unit isn't in the budget, $30/day gasoline bill is much easier to swallow although it sucks at the time


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## moey (Jul 7, 2014)

You really can do this on the cheap if you desire. I would say my generator setup was about ~$900. Transfer switch was $150 a Champion 4000w generator was $280 and a Champion 2000w inverter was $350 and 100ft of 8 awg wire. Sure Id love to have a standby generator but just could not see spending the money on something that may not get used but once every 5 years. I do have to shut off our well pump to avoid tripping something if everything else was running but I dont see that as a big inconvenience. We have a ~15 gallons of reserve in the pressure tank.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 7, 2014)

The 5kw generator I originally had didn't run my well pump-well is 400'.  Had to get a bigger genny and even that one sags when the pump runs.


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## SCOTT S. (Jul 7, 2014)

We use a Honda 2000 inverter it will not handle the water pump, but can keep the fridge and freezer cold and run the furnace fan if needed. It will do this continuously on little more then 2 gal a day. Its not as nice as a whole house genny but I use it a lot more then I ever did my old 8000 kw, It takes 30 seconds to throw it in the back of the truck/ atv and you have power where ever you want, the old 8,000kw never made it out of the yard.


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## flyingcow (Jul 8, 2014)

Whatever you do, have it set up so you can shut the flow of gasoline off when you shut it down for the last time. Basically run it out of gas. Should keep the carb clean that way. Wouldn't hurt to dump some stabil in the tank too.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 8, 2014)

The EU2000 isn't set up like that: one knob turns off the ignition and gas at the same time.  It is easy to drain though.


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## flyingcow (Jul 8, 2014)

Basically snowsleds/generators/4 wheelers/etc Once i'm done with them for the season, turn gas off and run the unit dry.


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## jebatty (Jul 8, 2014)

The 5500 watt, 220V genny we bought in 2005 was the best buy ever for about $400. Because ever since we bought it, we rarely have a power outage. Good insurance policy. That said, it's on a transfer switch and runs the well pump, fridge, freezer, microwave, some lighting circuits and the computer/TV circuit. Plenty for emergency backup power.


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## KB007 (Jul 9, 2014)

We currently have the 8000W Briggs & Stratton Genny, with an approved xfer panel and it works just fine.  I'm not the kind of guy to run it for hours, we use it for an hour or so to keep things cold in the freezers (if summer) and run some water if we need. I don't just run it for hours at a time like some do, so gas usage is pretty low for me. The B&S will run our 200' deep well pump easily and we can have other circuits on at the same time.  It's nice as it has a 30A 240V L14-30 on it to supply the tfr panel. 

I had a smaller 5000W Coleman powermate that had a 20A 240 outlet on it and when I had it running into the tfr panel the well pump would def cause it to sag some.  It would not run the pump and anything other than a light bulb, so I gave it to my electrician / neighbor.  (He "supervises" all the electrical work I do). 

I do find myself looking at some of the smaller 2000W inverters every now and then thinking it would be usefull to have something smaller for just the fridge/freezer in cases of shorter term outages, but haven't bought one yet. Something like that would be great for someone who doesn't need the 240V/30A for a well pump or any other 240V feed.

Whatever you do, please remember that backfeeding a panel without a proper transfer switch/panel is in most cases illegal and can be deadly to a lineman working to restore your power.  Please do not backfeed, ever.


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## maple1 (Jul 10, 2014)

IMO people oversize their gennys 3/4 of the time - and for me, the prime consideration after the first day of a multi-day power outage isn't how much juice does it put out, but how much gas does it burn.

Which is why I sold my 5500/8500 B&S genny this winter, and replaced it with a 3000w Inverter genny this spring at a tax-free sale. I didn't use it or even get around to taking it out of the box until this past Sunday after Arthur blew through. The power came back on about 4 hours after I got it set up & going, but in that time it burned very little gas, ran barely above a very quiet idle 95% of the time, and powered my whole house - except for 240v stuff like dryer & stove. That included my well pump & boiler for hot water (whole heating system was powered actually but not used except for charging storage) - although it is only a shallow well 3/4hp 120v pump.

That setup might not work for everyone - but I would highly recommend to everyone that they fully and honestly evaluate and even accurately measure how much juice they really do need before they buy one. As I'm sitting here my monitor says the house is using 600 watts and I can hear the fridge running. Gas can be a pretty scarce commodity in an extended outage, and bigger (>5kw) non-inverter gennies can drink a lot of it fast while you don't use even 1/4 of the juice they're putting out. Plus bigger stuff can get expensive to buy.

And for a decent sized decent quality decent priced capable inverter genny, check out the Lifans at HD. Lots of good reviews, and I'm pretty sure that's what my red one I got elsewhere is.


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## prezes13 (Jul 10, 2014)

If you have the money to spent buy Honda.  They are quiet and great on gas.  With all that said three years ago we had a power outage due to the freak snow storm in October I run my whole house on 12 years old generac 7250watts surge.  If I was to buy one now I would get the gp series.  Mostlikely gp 6500 I think that's enough for what you are trying to do and relatively good on gas.  Just do yourself a favor and don't buy it at lowes or HD generators for them are made with a cheaper parts so they can sell them cheaper.  Check electric generator direct they got pretty good prices.


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