# Chimney Liner Crisis!!



## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

Hey Guys, I’m rather new around here but I am wayyy in over my head. 

I picked up a wood burning insert to go into my masonry chimney the other day and had a chimney sweep come out today to check out my situation. Well... apparently I’m screwed because my chimney is 6.25”x17” D and he felt very confident an insulated SS liner will NOT be going in there and he surely would not install it. He told me it just plain won’t fit through the chimney. He suggested running a few feet of a liner through the wider part of the flue but I don’t know if I should do that.

 Basically I need to know what my options are now. I can still return the stove up to 30 days but my heart has truly been set on getting into wood burning. I want to make this work but I also don’t want to break the bank doing something radically unnecessary to the chimney.

Thanks for any help guys

Cheers


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## begreen (Jan 9, 2018)

Take a look at DuraVent DuraLiner. It will fit there and comes preinsulated with a metal outer jacket. Use stainless steel pop rivets to join the sections.
http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6
https://woodstovepro.com/chimney-pipe-venting-pipe/wood-all-fuel-piping/6-inch/duravent-duraliner-6/


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

begreen said:


> Take a look at DuraVent DuraLiner. It will fit there and comes preinsulated with a metal outer jacket. Use stainless steel pop rivets to join the sections.



Thanks for the advice. Not to doubt you but he seemed pretty positive that an insulated liner wouldn’t fit, but what makes you so sure it will?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2018)

An ovalized liner will go in there...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2018)

The chimney is 6.25" x 17"?
Or the damper area is that size?


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> The chimney is 6.25" x 17"?
> Or the damper area is that size?


Chimney


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Chimney


Wow, that may be the widest flue I've ever heard of.


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## Mark8 (Jan 9, 2018)




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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Wow, that may be the widest flue I've ever heard of.


Maybe I’m wrong about that.. I do know the one measurement is 6.25. Would an uninsulated 6” liner work ok?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Maybe I’m wrong about that.. I do know the one measurement is 6.25. Would an uninsulated 6” liner work ok?


Not without ovalizing it.
That oval rigid pipe is really nice!


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## Tar12 (Jan 9, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Maybe I’m wrong about that.. I do know the one measurement is 6.25. Would an uninsulated 6” liner work ok?


I wouldn't ...insulated is always better.


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## Squisher (Jan 9, 2018)

Oval insulated duraliner will fit those dimensions as described. It comes in solid and flexible sections for getting through the damper.  The flex sections will need a insulation wrap.  And various oval to round adaptors. I've used it on my own insert and it's high quality and works flawlessly. It's also handy if your chimney as short as you can extend out the top up to a length(no exposed connections). It's not cheap but it's high quality(IMO) insulated pipe, offering great performance and safety.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> I wouldn't ...insulated is always better.


Good luck getting a 6" ID liner in a 6.25" ID chimney...not saying it can't be done...but I would take a bet against it!


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

Squisher said:


> Oval insulated duraliner will fit those dimensions as described. It comes in solid and flexible sections for getting through the damper.  The flex sections will need a insulation wrap.  And various oval to round adaptors. I've used it on my own insert and it's high quality and works flawlessly. It's also handy if your chimney as short as you can extend out the top up to a length(no exposed connections). It's not cheap but it's high quality(IMO) insulated pipe, offering great performance and safety.
> 
> View attachment 220267
> View attachment 220268
> ...


Wow that looks like it worked out great. How much did that liner install end up costing if you don't mind me asking?


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## Tar12 (Jan 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Good luck getting a 6" ID liner in a 6.25" OD chimney...not saying it can't be done...but I would take a bet against it!


Edited....lol


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## Squisher (Jan 9, 2018)

I can't recall exactly off the top of my head. But I'm in bc canada so it may not reflect much for pricing in your area. I did the install myself.

If you are hiring it out. Get a few quotes if you can.

The height of your chimney is going to make a difference in cost.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 9, 2018)

How bad would it be to put a 5.5" round liner down there?  Just curious as it seems the oval liner is going to cost me an arm and a leg...  Also, the reason the squeeze is so tight here is that there is an existing terra cotta liner.


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## bholler (Jan 9, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> How bad would it be to put a 5.5" round liner down there?  Just curious as it seems the oval liner is going to cost me an arm and a leg...  Also, the reason the squeeze is so tight here is that there is an existing terra cotta liner.


Even with 5.5 you wont get any insulation.  You can also do an oval flex liner.  For rogid yo work your liners need to be really straight.  The clay liners can also be removed to make room.  But i prefer not doing that in fireplaces


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## Squisher (Jan 9, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> How bad would it be to put a 5.5" round liner down there?  Just curious as it seems the oval liner is going to cost me an arm and a leg...  Also, the reason the squeeze is so tight here is that there is an existing terra cotta liner.




You are going to have to list lots more info to get any reliable opinions on that.

Interior or exterior masonry chimney?  Interior needs 2"s clearance to combustibles exterior needs 1". Do you have these clearances?  Can they even be verified or not?  If not then you need a insulated liner. A insulated liner negates these clearances and effectively upgrades a masonry chimney to zero clearance to combustibles.

What stove/insert do you have?  Do they allow for a undersized liner in the manual?  Downsizing of the pipe size is only allowed up here if the manufacturer allows it.

A good install/sweep company will offer the service of breaking out the terracotta liners in order to fit a insulated round liner. Which is another option vs the oval liners.  Obviously costs money and any insulated option is going to be more expensive than a uninsulated liner install.

Many people do burn with the undersized uninsulated liners.  Besides the safety reasons mentioned for using a insulated liner a insulated liner will greatly outperform a uninsulated one. Cleaner chimney and better burning stove with more effective draft.

A insulated liner is the proper way, uninsulated is a compromise on performance at best and safety at worst.


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## HomeinPA (Jan 9, 2018)

For starters, are the measurements you quote INSIDE the flue tile or outside? YUGE difference. And any offsets inside the flue have an impact.

The reality is that there is no way a stainless steel liner, properly insulated to zero clearance will go down that size chimney without: A) ovalizing the entire liner and then rerounding it to make the proper connections at the stove or; B) removing the terra-cotta tiles. This is not necessarily a do-it-yourself project.

Something else to consider - You're putting an appliance in that allows you to light a *fire in your home*. It may actually benefit you to pay a professional to do the job the right way if they have the tools and know-how to accomplish it. If you're going to use it for heating the house and you'll be in the house for 5-10 years it's going to pay for itself may times over. If you do it halfway and it gets flagged when you go to sell the house it's gonna cost a lot more for someone to fix mistakes.


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## begreen (Jan 10, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Not to doubt you but he seemed pretty positive that an insulated liner wouldn’t fit, but what makes you so sure it will?


Sorry, just read your question. Hopefully by now you've had a chance to take a look at the DuraLiner oval pipe dimensions. It would fit easily unless there are confounding factors that we haven't been told.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 10, 2018)

begreen said:


> Sorry, just read your question. Hopefully by now you've had a chance to take a look at the DuraLiner oval pipe dimensions. It would fit easily unless there are confounding factors that we haven't been told.


If I were to get the hard pipe, how would I install it without awkwardly lifting a 25 ft pope in the air?

EDIT: pipe, not pope. Could you imagine?


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> If I were to get the hard pipe, how would I install it without awkwardly lifting a 25 ft pope in the air?
> 
> EDIT: pipe, not pope. Could you imagine?



Probably the same way I removed the pipe, there is a clamp that you can use to hold the pipe and as you rivet each section together keep moving the clamp, It will probably be easier with two clamps.  I'm not a professional but that's how I'm going to put it in. Remember the pipe is not heavy at all.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 10, 2018)

Ok so more info.. it seems like my chimney has an 8x12 clay liner with and inside width of 6.25”. My chimney is a external chimney... I see that oval is obviously the suggested move here but holy snot that breaks the bank.. there has to be a way...


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Ok so more info.. it seems like my chimney has an 8x12 clay liner with and inside width of 6.25”. My chimney is a external chimney... I see that oval is obviously the suggested move here but holy snot that breaks the bank.. there has to be a way...



Yes the oval is very expensive, round is a lot cheaper. Did you go on the top of the chimney and measure the inside measurement and also look for other reducing factors because this is what mine looked like, the mortar joints reduced the size.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 10, 2018)

The chimney sweep went up and took that measurement.. and yes he mentioned mortar joints. What was your solution?


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

With only 6.25 you cannot get  6" round duraline through, its to big, your only option is the oval, breaking out the liner would be another added cost so your not saving any money.

Here is a direct link to duraliner, click the tab that says literature at the bottom and download the parts manual and the installation instructions, it will give you a bigger picture.

http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> The chimney sweep went up and took that measurement.. and yes he mentioned mortar joints. What was your solution?



My stove has an 8" flue, and they ran 6" round duraliner, my masonary liner is 10 x 14 but with the Mortar joints it's 9x13 so if I wanted to run an 8 " round duraliner it would be very tight with 9" opening with the Mortar joints being uneven, so my only option is 8" oval or buy a stove with a 6" flue and reuse my existing pipe. If you think 6" oval is expensive 8" is wow.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2018)

Again you dont have to use duraliner.  You can use an ovalized flex liner that you insulate your self.  It doesnt cost near as much.  You could also call around to local sweeps and see if anyone has an ovalizer.  We have run liners through our for people for $50 if they bring it to us.


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> Again you dont have to use duraliner.  You can use an ovalized flex liner that you insulate your self.  It doesnt cost near as much.  You could also call around to local sweeps and see if anyone has an ovalizer.  We have run liners through our for people for $50 if they bring it to us.



Would he be better with oval or rectangle what would fit better?

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/oval-chimney-liner-liner-only.php

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rectangle-chimney-liner-liner-only.php


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Would he be better with oval or rectangle what would fit better?
> 
> https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/oval-chimney-liner-liner-only.php
> 
> https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rectangle-chimney-liner-liner-only.php


Rectangle wont gain anything and costs allot more


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> Rectangle wont gain anything and costs allot more



Wouldn't you gain more clearance putting a rectangle liner in a rectangle flue then an oval in a rectangle flue?


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Wouldn't you gain more clearance putting a rectangle liner in a rectangle flue then an oval in a rectangle flue?


Not needed there is plenty of room for a properly sized oval.  And the corners of the rectangle are usless space anyway all they do is create more turbulence.


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> Not needed there is plenty of room for a properly sized oval.  And the corners of the rectangle are usless space anyway all they do is create more turbulence.



So how do you get the liner and insulation and wire mesh through the flue without it hanging up on every jagged Mortar joint?


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> So how do you get the liner and insulation and wire mesh through the flue without it hanging up on every jagged Mortar joint?


If the mortar is hanging out bad you knock it off either with rotary chains or a chisel pn the end of rods.   And it dorsnt have to be that smooth the mesh doesnt get caught that easily.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> If the mortar is hanging out bad you knock it off either with rotary chains or a chisel pn the end of rods.   And it dorsnt have to be that smooth the mesh doesnt get caught that easily.


Could I theoretically ovalize the whole pipe, stuff it down the flue, then de-ovalize the bottom part to connect to the stove?


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## HomeinPA (Jan 10, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> So how do you get the liner and insulation and wire mesh through the flue without it hanging up on every jagged Mortar joint?



You don't expect a professional to give away *all *his secrets do you?


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## HomeinPA (Jan 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> If the mortar is hanging out bad you knock it off either with rotary chains or a chisel pn the end of rods.   And it dorsnt have to be that smooth the mesh doesnt get caught that easily.



Or maybe he will!


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Could I theoretically ovalize the whole pipe, stuff it down the flue, then de-ovalize the bottom part to connect to the stove?


Yes or ovalize all but the bottom and pull it up.  Either way works fine


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## Mark8 (Jan 10, 2018)

HomeinPA said:


> You don't expect a professional to give away *all *his secrets do you?



I  paid big bucks to join this forum I better get my money's worth


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I  paid big bucks to join this forum I better get my money's worth


I dont really think clearing rough spots is that valuable of a trade secret.  Lol


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

So I'm just going to keep throwing 'what if's' out there....

What if I ordered an ordinary 6" round SS liner, had it ovalized to 5" width, then (assuming that wrapped insulation would likely make it too bulky to fit) just pouring some vermiculite down.  Wouldn't that not only work, but probably save me $500-600?


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> So I'm just going to keep throwing 'what if's' out there....
> 
> What if I ordered an ordinary 6" round SS liner, had it ovalized to 5" width, then (assuming that wrapped insulation would likely make it too bulky to fit) just pouring some vermiculite down.  Wouldn't that not only work, but probably save me $500-600?



That sounds like a good idea, I'm wondering how you keep the liner centered in the Flue why your pouring the vermiculite down so the oval liner does not get pushed against the side loosing your 1" fire clearance.

Maybe you could use spacers something like this.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> That sounds like a good idea, I'm wondering how you keep the liner centered in the Flue why your pouring the vermiculite down so the oval liner does not get pushed against the side loosing your 1" fire clearance.
> 
> Maybe you could use spacers something like this.
> 
> View attachment 220403


I'm sure there are some dudes on here that have good advice on this, but I'd assume having a buddy hold on to it while you pour would be sufficient as they could probably shake it in to place while the insulation settles.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I'm wondering how you keep the liner centered in the Flue why your pouring the vermiculite down so the oval liner does not get pushed against the side loosing your 1" fire clearance.


That's the issue...that and its really messy!
Buy a standard liner and insulation, have it ovalized (IMO) or you could fab something up to DIY ovalize it...I seen a few Youtube vids of that...not sure how hard it is to do really...probably like most things, 1001 ways to screw it up!


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> I'm sure there are some dudes on here that have good advice on this, but I'd assume having a buddy hold on to it while you pour would be sufficient as they could probably shake it in to place while the insulation settles.


You actually need more room to properly use pour in insulation for a wood liner.  Just either order an ovalized liner or find someone local with an ovalizer and order round.  It should be 4.5 or 4.75 wide.  Ant to msintain volume you will probably have to go up to a 7" liner.


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## double-d (Jan 11, 2018)

Just as bholler mentioned
Taking a 6" liner and reducing it, takes it below 28 sq in area which a 6" round liner has.
A 6.5" round liner will ovalize to 5" x 8.15" (28.22 sq in) but when you reform it back to round you have 6.5" not 6"

Pouring Vermiculite down and trying to keep the liner centered is pretty challenging, the only centering device I have seen is made by http://www.firesafeinc.com/products/cis


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

bholler said:


> You actually need more room to properly use pour in insulation for a wood liner.  Just either order an ovalized liner or find someone local with an ovalizer and order round.  It should be 4.5 or 4.75 wide.  Ant to msintain volume you will probably have to go up to a 7" liner.



I took geometry in Junior high and I'm wondering how you think making a round into a oval would change the volume? Am I missing something.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I took geometry in Junior high and I'm wondering how you think making a round into a oval wound would change the volume? Am I missing something.


Golly gee... I am a frugal 20 something... but all this is really steering me towards just pulling the  trigger on the ovalized rigid duraliner


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## double-d (Jan 11, 2018)

Smoke and gases travel up in in a circular pattern, that is why a Round liner gives you the best draft, Oval is the next best, and with Square and Rectangle liners you loose a lot of that area in the corners.


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## illini81 (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I took geometry in Junior high and I'm wondering how you think making a round into a oval would change the volume? Am I missing something.



Look at the extreme case - imagine you continued ovalizing it until it was just a straight line.  Then the volume would be zero.  That indicates that moving the cross-sectional shape from a perfect circle to an oval decreases it's area (and therefore the volume of the liner).  Here's another explanation:

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.06/s/kathy2.html


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

double-d said:


> Smoke and gases travel up in in a circular pattern, that is why a Round liner gives you the best draft, Oval is the next best, and with Square and Rectangle liners you loose a lot of that area in the corners.



Got it !  Is there a much of a factor when it comes to smooth wall or ribbed ?


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## double-d (Jan 11, 2018)

When using a Smooth Wall Liner, for Gas there is a 20% BTU capacity increase and with Oil a 15% BTU capacity increase in draft, I have not seen anything on what it does with wood burning appliances


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Golly gee... I am a frugal 20 something... but all this is really steering me towards just pulling the  trigger on the ovalized rigid duraliner



When things seem overwhelming just take a deep breath walk away from the situation and collect your thoughts, just think of the education your getting for free, that's priceless


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

illini81 said:


> Look at the extreme case - imagine you continued ovalizing it until it was just a straight line.  Then the volume would be zero.  That indicates that moving the cross-sectional shape from a perfect circle to an oval decreases it's area (and therefore the volume of the liner).  Here's another explanation:
> 
> http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.06/s/kathy2.html



 Well that's the problem right there, I passed geometry but failed algebra


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Got it !  Is there a much of a factor when it comes to smooth wall or ribbed ?


Yes but if you go with smoothwall dont get the 2 ply crap.  Go with mid weight or heavy wall flex


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

can someone check out this laundry list of goodies and confirm that this will probably do the job and that the price is congruent with installing oval liners?

5- 6"x48" Oval Rigid Duraliner
1-6"x60" Oval Flex Duraliner
1-10"x22" Extend-a-cap kit
1-6"x14" Oval to round connector

grand total: $1572 USD


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

or this...


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

If you want to insulate the flex sections you'll need wrap insulation for them. 

When I did my oval duraliner install I had to send the oval flex down first and then attach the solid sections as it went down. I then had to get the oval flex down through the damper so I could attach the oval to round flex piece, then shimmy everything back up into place.  Just consider how you are going to attach the oval to round flex piece if it doesn't fit down from above.  You aren't going to send rigid flex pieces up through the bottom like you may be able to a ovalized flex liner. 

I'll let others speak to the costs vs different options down there.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Squisher said:


> If you want to insulate the flex sections you'll need wrap insulation for them.
> 
> When I did my oval duraliner install I had to send the oval flex down first and then attach the solid sections as it went down. I then had to get the oval flex down through the damper so I could attach the oval to round flex piece, then shimmy everything back up into place.  Just consider how you are going to attach the oval to round flex piece if it doesn't fit down from above.  You aren't going to send rigid flex pieces up through the bottom like you may be able to a ovalized flex liner.
> 
> I'll let others speak to the costs vs different options down there.



how tight was your flue that you had to get through?  I'm looking at the osburn flex kit that is much more reasonable , with an insulation wrap, but with a 6" OVAL and adding a blanket I want to ensure I can fit  it down before blowing $1000


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> how tight was your flue that you had to get through?  I'm looking at the osburn flex kit that is much more reasonable , with an insulation wrap, but with a 6" OVAL and adding a blanket I want to ensure I can fit  it down before blowing $1000



If It was me I would get on a ladder and look down that flue to see what you have and do your own measuring, when I went inside my fireplace and measured just before the first piece of clay liner the size reduced down an inch. So before you purchase your pipe do your own measuring in various places just to make sure. Take a look at the mortar joints as well.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> or this...
> View attachment 220423


Do not get this type of liner


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> how tight was your flue that you had to get through?  I'm looking at the osburn flex kit that is much more reasonable , with an insulation wrap, but with a 6" OVAL and adding a blanket I want to ensure I can fit  it down before blowing $1000



My flue that I lined with the duraliner was 6x13 interior dimensions. I'd do as Mark8 advised and have a look yourself and measure yourself. If you have chimney rods you can simply tape a chisel onto the end and have at the mortar snot if needed. I have a nice chisel now that attaches but I've taped one before and it worked. Either will be a good workout and an exercise in frustration. Also note that if doing this you are potentially knocking mortar right out of the joint and would be one more reason why the flue could never go back to being unlined. Like if converting back to a open masonry fireplace was desired as an option.  Usually in these parts to fit a liner properly the damper area is going to need to be opened up some and negate the option of going back to a open fireplace anyways.

When I installed my insulated liner I had a heatilator style fireplace and I cut out one of the tubes and a portion of the damper/top of firebox.

I don't know if it's been mentioned/discussed yet but if you're going to all the work of doing it properly, then don't forget about a block off plate and insulation around the sides/back if it will fit and it's an exterior chimney.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

wow I really appreciate all this info... my wife and I just moved into this house (our first) and all the diy projects have been fun but overwhelming to say the least... for instance I don't even own a ladder, a handy buddy with one is going to come over and help when it's installation time... I definitely do not have chimney rods or chisels for that matter.  I really really want to make this happen as I have always wanted a wood burner and we are funneling money and heat out of our house with the electric heat pump (even though I guess dropping a grand and a half is kinda funneling money out too :/) but I'm almost at the point of thinking I need to give up because it seems I'm fighting an uphill battle on this.


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

Unless you are handy and have the tools an install like this could be tough and possibly worth hiring out to a pro. At the least you'll be armed with some knowledge to help you better determine if you're dealing with a pro or a hack disguised as a pro. 

Installs can be from dead easy to super hard. And all stops in between.


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> wow I really appreciate all this info... my wife and I just moved into this house (our first) and all the diy projects have been fun but overwhelming to say the least... for instance I don't even own a ladder, a handy buddy with one is going to come over and help when it's installation time... I definitely do not have chimney rods or chisels for that matter.  I really really want to make this happen as I have always wanted a wood burner and we are funneling money and heat out of our house with the electric heat pump (even though I guess dropping a grand and a half is kinda funneling money out too :/) but I'm almost at the point of thinking I need to give up because it seems I'm fighting an uphill battle on this.



Here is some advice from someone three times your age, depending on the women your married to do not let a project like this interfere with your marriage or your relationship, if your not mechanically inclined and don't have the tools this could become very frustrating and if not installed correctly could burn your house down and kill you, whatever you do don't take shortcuts in the installation and follow the code. Bottom line, if you feel your over your head and this project is going to put a strain on your marriage, DON'T DO IT.  Pay a professional, and keep the wife happy.  I know this is not the Dr. Phil forum, just some friendly advice from someone that's been through a divorce.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Here is some advice from someone three times your age, depending on the women your married to do not let a project like this interfere with your marriage or your relationship, if your not mechanically inclined and don't have the tools this could become very frustrating and if not installed correctly could burn your house down and kill you, whatever you do don't take shortcuts in the installation and follow the code. Bottom line, if you feel your over your head and this project is going to put a strain on your marriage, DON'T DO IT.  Pay a professional, and keep the wife happy.  I know this is not the Dr. Phil forum, just some friendly advice from someone that's been through a divorce.



Haha wow man, thanks. I didn't really get the Dr. Phil vibe at all actually, that seems like sounds advice.  I definitely am not the kind of person who likes to have a big investment 'half-assed' so no matter what route I go, I'm going to make sure it is done right, even if it means shelling out some extra coin for a pro to do it.  To be honest, my wife is amazing and super understanding of most of my wild endeavors.  

On this particular topic, she is concerned about the investment portion and whether it is actually 'worth it'.  I tried to explain to her how we can get free wood, keep the house toasty (right now we have to bundle in blankets 24/7) and cut down on our electric bill, but yeah, you bring up another valid point.  I think she would be far less understanding if I  spent all that AND hurt myself, her or the house along the way.


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## double-d (Jan 11, 2018)

I'm not sure which brand of Smooth Wall Liner that is, but I know that some are NOT able to be Ovalized without having the inside ply "pucker up"


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Which flu connector do you guys like better, I'm going to go with the 30 deg elbow because I like the fact when you clean your liner all of the creosote will fall down inside the insert, and the box type allows creosote to sit on top of your stove in the corners if it doesn't fall through the round flue. I'm also thinking it would draft better.


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

I went with the 30 stainless adapter. After researching I felt the same as you that it was the superior connection. Their 'box' connections that screw to the top seemed odd and dubiously effective for most all of the reasons you listed. 

A heads up I had to crimp the male end of that adapter to fit into my stove collar. It didn't come crimped. A simple hand crimp worked fine.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

what about busting out the clay flue (professionally) and just buying a normal liner setup after, anybody wanna vouch for that?


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## double-d (Jan 11, 2018)

I like the 30 deg angle idea, the liner a lot of times, after coming through the damper area is at about a 35 deg angle and this makes it easier to connect, than trying to make another bend down into the insert.  When I say easier, most inserts are difficult to get in there to make that connection, because of the lack of room.


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

double-d said:


> I like the 30 deg angle idea, the liner a lot of times, after coming through the damper area is at about a 35 deg angle and this makes it easier to connect, than trying to make another bend down into the insert.  When I say easier, most inserts are difficult to get in there to make that connection, because of the lack of room.



It would be nice if the flex would bend so you could just attach it straight to the stove avoiding any offsets but it appears that the flex is really not all that flexible, my installer kinked my flex just hooking it to the 30 deg box.

But your correct, there is a lack of room.


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> what about busting out the clay flue (professionally) and just buying a normal liner setup after, anybody wanna vouch for that?



Good question, who would you call for an estimate.  Does this type of work fall under chimney sweep.

Any one know.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> what about busting out the clay flue (professionally) and just buying a normal liner setup after, anybody wanna vouch for that?


We break out liners all the time but try to avoid it on fireplaces unless the tiles are already destroyed.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Good question, who would you call for an estimate.  Does this type of work fall under chimney sweep.
> 
> Any one know.


Yes it does who else would do it


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

In these parts many stove shops install but don't sweep at all. No one in my area that I know of ever breaksout tiles except for one Mason. 

I am taking a course in the spring on breaking out tiles. I've had no way of learning to do it so I don't offer it yet, but hopefully will be confident with it after the course. It's tough to make a go of installing in a proper manner here. Most places are quoting for a uninsulated liner that they are probably going to crush/kink through a damper area. So a proper install is always going to be more expensive. Educating the customer is key.


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

I'm just guessing here from a construction standpoint, wouldn't removing the clay liner severely weaken a chimney, all that pounding to remove it.


Elisurfer4, it wouldn't hurt to call some chimney sweeps and see what they charge, at least you can report back and let us know for our own knowledge even if that's  not the way you go.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I'm just guessing here from a construction standpoint, wouldn't removing the clay liner severely weaken a chimney, all that pounding to remove it.
> 
> 
> Elisurfer4, it wouldn't hurt to call some chimney sweeps and see what they charge, at least you can report back and let us know for our own knowledge even if that's  not the way you go.


Nope not if the chimney is a good candidate for removal.  It really doesnt take much pounding at all.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 11, 2018)

If the coin isn't there this winter for your install then save up for an install before next burn season and in the mean time process as much firewood as you can. A beautiful new stove is only an ornament if you don't have the fuel to put in it.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If the coin isn't there this winter for your install then save up for an install before next burn season and in the mean time process as much firewood as you can. A beautiful new stove is only an ornament if you don't have the fuel to put in it.


I’ve got a bout a cord on hand right now.. but that’s definitely a thought. I just feel like I’m SO close to being set up considering the stove is in my car currently haha, but I was not anticipating the hang up on the liner end.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Squisher said:


> Oval insulated duraliner will fit those dimensions as described. It comes in solid and flexible sections for getting through the damper.  The flex sections will need a insulation wrap.  And various oval to round adaptors. I've used it on my own insert and it's high quality and works flawlessly. It's also handy if your chimney as short as you can extend out the top up to a length(no exposed connections). It's not cheap but it's high quality(IMO) insulated pipe, offering great performance and safety.
> 
> View attachment 220267
> View attachment 220268
> ...



Just coming back to this as I’m considering this exact install... what is that cap piece that you used?


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

The oval extenda cap kit.  From my pics a bit back you can see how far I extended my last piece of rigid liner. I did so because I was short on height and I feel that was a big plus of the duraliner. It allowed me to extend my chimney a couple of feet very easily.


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

I'm not sure now where or if this is the thread I recently posted a cap pic so here it is. 

The duraliner is obviously the one on the left.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 11, 2018)

Squisher said:


> I'm not sure now where or if this is the thread I recently posted a cap pic so here it is.
> 
> The duraliner is obviously the one on the left.
> 
> View attachment 220478


That’s beautiful. What a view you got goin there too! Do you know if there is a more simple cap option for the rigid duraliner as I’m working with 25’ and don’t need to extend and I know that part is pricier.


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## Squisher (Jan 11, 2018)

I think that's the only option for oval but certainly worth asking whoever you're getting it from.


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2018)

Try the shortest one
https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-duraliner-oval-10-x-22-extend-a-cap-kit-6dlr-kxc22-6072.html


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

I don't no where your getting your pricing for the Duraliner but they gave me this online retailer Build.com maybe someone already mentioned it.  Build.com search will take some of the Duraliner part numbers but not all I discovered, but they can get all the parts if you call.


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## Mark8 (Jan 11, 2018)

begreen said:


> Try the shortest one
> https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-duraliner-oval-10-x-22-extend-a-cap-kit-6dlr-kxc22-6072.html



Northline is $5.00 cheaper than build.com


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## Squisher (Jan 12, 2018)

begreen said:


> Try the shortest one
> https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-duraliner-oval-10-x-22-extend-a-cap-kit-6dlr-kxc22-6072.html




What do you mean by shortest one?


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## weatherguy (Jan 12, 2018)

You got some great advice in this thread, no offense to all who helped but id put a lot of weight on what begreen and bholler's are telling you. You want to do this once a nd do it right.


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## begreen (Jan 12, 2018)

Squisher said:


> What do you mean by shortest one?


Google con-fuse. Looks shorter than your installation, but maybe not.


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## Squisher (Jan 12, 2018)

Ahh. I believe all the caps are meant to be variable in height in regards to the rigid components chosen.

For the duraliner I see only the extenda cap and the twist lock cap. I think the extenda cap comes in oval or round and the twist lock cap is round only.


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## Mark8 (Jan 12, 2018)

Squisher said:


> Ahh. I believe all the caps are meant to be variable in height in regards to the rigid components chosen.
> 
> For the duraliner I see only the extenda cap and the twist lock cap. I think the extenda cap comes in oval or round and the twist lock cap is round only.



This is exactly correct! Because your ridged pipe runs through the base plate so your length of pipe that's protruding through the base plate is what determines the cap height.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 12, 2018)

alrighty guys... think I'm gonna go for the duraliner setup.  I am going to call around and see if I can get any pro's around town to do the install, but so far it seems no one has even heard of duraliner pre-insulated rigid oval(we're in central VA)...  Ideally, I would be able to do the install myself, but I think it's pretty clear here I'm over my head on that one.  I actually called my insurance company but they wouldn't budge on making this into a claim  Here goes nothin.


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## Mark8 (Jan 12, 2018)

Hope all goes well, best wishes to you your wife and your new house and a warm fire place.

If you go to the Duravent website I gave you, call customer service under contacts and ask them to  refer you to a dealer in your area and they can refer you to an installer, just make sure you tell them it's there Duraliner product and it's for a wood burning  appliance.


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## bholler (Jan 12, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> alrighty guys... think I'm gonna go for the duraliner setup.  I am going to call around and see if I can get any pro's around town to do the install, but so far it seems no one has even heard of duraliner pre-insulated rigid oval(we're in central VA)...  Ideally, I would be able to do the install myself, but I think it's pretty clear here I'm over my head on that one.  I actually called my insurance company but they wouldn't budge on making this into a claim  Here goes nothin.


You really need to get up there and make sure your clay liners are straight with no major offsets before commiting to rigid.  It doesnt take much of an offset to make a rigid install go bad.


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## Squisher (Jan 12, 2018)

duravent oval ridged is only 4 3/4" x 7 3/4". But certainly have a look and re-measure before shelling out.


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## bholler (Jan 12, 2018)

Squisher said:


> duravent oval ridged is only 4 3/4" x 7 3/4". But certainly have a look and re-measure before shelling out.


Yes but at that dimension the flue still needs to be pretty straight.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 12, 2018)

bholler said:


> You really need to get up there and make sure your clay liners are straight with no major offsets before commiting to rigid.  It doesnt take much of an offset to make a rigid install go bad.


Yeah that’s a good point. Shortly after posting my above declaration I actually called a local company that was very educated and down to earth and they basically have volunteered to come take a free estimate and said if they can fit insulated oval down, they’ll charge me between $800-$1000 for full install.. now that would be a deal


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## Squisher (Jan 12, 2018)

That sounds like a promising company to deal with. 

And as always I'd heed Bhollers advice and have a real good look and get proper measurements before winding up ordering up something that won't fit. I only had 6" width and my duraliner went down even with the first piece being flex with a insulation wrap on it. But it was tight and my clay liners were nice and straight. But my flue was half the length of yours too.


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## Mark8 (Jan 12, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> Yeah that’s a good point. Shortly after posting my above declaration I actually called a local company that was very educated and down to earth and they basically have volunteered to come take a free estimate and said if they can fit insulated oval down, they’ll charge me between $800-$1000 for full install.. now that would be a deal



Just remember you did the smart thing by coming here and doing your own research, so make sure this company details everything in writing, manufacture of pipe and all components and labor, don't commit to the deal until you come back here and verify with the senior members that your not being sold cheep pipe or getting a hack install.  Just because a company is in business doesn't mean they do things correctly, a lot of companies sell cheep material just to give a low bid to get the job.


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## HomeinPA (Jan 12, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> alrighty guys... think I'm gonna go for the duraliner setup.  I am going to call around and see if I can get any pro's around town to do the install, but so far it seems no one has even heard of duraliner pre-insulated rigid oval(we're in central VA)...  Ideally, I would be able to do the install myself, but I think it's pretty clear here I'm over my head on that one.  I actually called my insurance company but they wouldn't budge on making this into a claim  Here goes nothin.



The only circumstance that the insurance company would likely cover is if the flue is inspected and found to be damaged from a flue fire. Assuming of course that you've owned the property long enough and had used the fireplace.


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## Bootstrap (Jan 12, 2018)

It seems the only options are removing the clay tiles or going oval. I would go oval, but removing the clay tiles isn't rocket science either. The obvious advantage there is you can have a 6" round liner, which is probably a lot easier to clean. Certainly a tough decision to make. If I had to make that kind of call, I would remove the clay liners so I could run a 6" round. If you cant do it, I would think most home improvement guys either know how, or know a chimney sweep that can.
For the record, my particular SS liner says it doesn't require insulation IF the chimney clay liners are in good shape and up to code. They were in amazing shape, and the building inspector signed off on it so I am running mine without insulation. In about 4 hours from this post I am going to take the stove apart and look up the chimney liner. If it looks bad, I will insulate it this summer.
I run my Drolet 1800i 24 hours a day but its really warm out so this is an ideal day to do a mid season inspection.


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## Squisher (Jan 12, 2018)

But as bholler has pointed out numerous times. The largest determining factor for whether insulation is required is whether the proper clearances to combustibles are met on the outside of the chimney. So yes the existing clay liners have to be intact and continuous. Also the chimney needs to be of proper construction and you need 1"clearance to combustibles on the outside of it for exterior and 2"s for interior. If you don't have that or can't confirm it then insulation is required even if the existing chimney is in good shape.  This is not because there is a great risk during normal burning, this is to protect you and your home for the worst case scenario, a chimney fire. 

Oval liners are easily swept with rotary cleaning equipment.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 12, 2018)

A whole other question but just as important... I was originally planning on putting in a Vogelzang Colonial but is it worth an extra $250 to get the century cw2900 for the bigger firebox? I can still easily return the Vogelzang


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2018)

Elisurfer4 said:


> I was originally planning on putting in a Vogelzang Colonial but is it worth an extra $250 to get the century cw2900 for the bigger firebox?


Yes, larger and better build quality/customer service...no brainer IMO.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 15, 2018)

Hey guys... figured I'd hop back in here to update you. I've returned the Vogelzang and have the Century CW2900 on the way.  The Chimney sweep came out today and gave me an estimate for running an ovalized flex with an insulated blanket down into the stove, here is what he is charging and I'd love if you guys would chime in and tell me how you feel about the fairness of the price.
1- Homesaver 304 SS liner
1- Insulation wrap
1-Appliance connector
1-9x18 top plate
1-9x18 cap
1-Building permit fee (required)

Total including labor and install: $2,063


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## Mark8 (Jan 15, 2018)

$800 to $1000 now $2063 that went up fast  others with an experienced opinion will be along shortly.


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## Elisurfer4 (Jan 15, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> $800 to $1000 now $2063 that went up fast  others with an experienced opinion will be along shortly.


haha yep... but I'm sure the guy who told me that price sight unseen didn't account for the fact that I have 26' of chimney to line and ovalized etc


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