# can i stuff roxul up the chimney?



## TTigano (Nov 18, 2012)

I would need to remove my insert completely in order to install a block off plate.  Can I just remove the surround trim and stuff a bunch of roxul up there?  It will be coming in contact with the stainless liner.  Thanks!!


----------



## oldogy (Nov 18, 2012)

Subscribing for the discussion.


----------



## Tramontana (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't have any experience with Roxul, but when I installed my liner kit, I rolled a sort of horse collar out of the foil faced insulation to wrap around the bundle and close the gap to the existing flue.

I'll be curious to hear advice from others here?

Cheers!


----------



## etiger2007 (Nov 18, 2012)

I have mine in contact with the ss liner, I believe Roxul would need to get to 2,000 degrees for it to burn, if you get it that hot you got more issues to worry about.


----------



## TTigano (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks.  If that's how hot it needs to get to burn I'm good.


----------



## BrotherBart (Nov 18, 2012)

At 2000 it get a little soft is all. I have a block off plate but the bottom and the top of my chimneys are stuffed with it. For six burning seasons and it looks like it just came out of the package.

Go for it.


----------



## NextEndeavor (Nov 18, 2012)

Shouldn't be any problem with Roxul up against stainless liner. Until yesterday, I had fiberglass insulation up against mine, now have Roxul which handles even higher temps. The fiberglass up there for two seasons came out looking new, no melting at all. My only concern with your approach is that you probably shouldn't pack it in there up against the stove top. Pulling out the stove is really no big deal. Just set up some bricks and plywood to match level then slide it out. (remove screws for liner adapter) Mine is very heavy but slid fine with two of us. To go back in we just used a thin piece of sheet metal between the stove top and the liner adapter. It basically worked like a shoehorn going right back in place and put a little up pressure on the liner.


----------



## TTigano (Nov 18, 2012)

It was an absolute nightmare hooking up the liner to the stove as I have a Very tight fit.  That's why I don't want pull the stove out.


----------



## etiger2007 (Nov 18, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> At 2000 it get a little soft is all. I have a block off plate but the bottom and the top of my chimneys are stuffed with it. For six burning seasons and it looks like it just came out of the package.
> 
> Go for it.


 
I have a ton of Roxul left over maybe Ill insulate as much of the liner as I can going from the top down.  Good stuff Bart.


----------



## EJL923 (Nov 19, 2012)

I burned all of last season with Roxul stuffed up around the liner.  This year i had to pull the insert, so i got to inspect it.  Like BB, not even a hint of heat issues, looks like it did when i put it there.


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 19, 2012)

TTigano said:


> It was an absolute nightmare hooking up the liner to the stove as I have a Very tight fit. That's why I don't want pull the stove out.


 You dont have to pull the stove to install the roxul, you dont have to pull the stove if you want to put in a block off plate either, there should be plenty of room to work, I did mine without moving the stove, block off plate in two pieces.


----------



## BrotherBart (Nov 19, 2012)

I love hearth.com. The only place where you can tell somebody to "stuff it" and they thank you.


----------



## begreen (Nov 19, 2012)

And guys compare their wood, without blinking an eye.


----------



## egclassic (Nov 19, 2012)

etiger2007 said:


> I have a ton of Roxul left over maybe Ill insulate as much of the liner as I can going from the top down. Good stuff Bart.


That's exactly what I did and it seemed to help. I also shoved it up from below. It has been in there 2 years and I have never had an issue, yet.


----------



## etiger2007 (Nov 19, 2012)

egclassic said:


> That's exactly what I did and it seemed to help. I also shoved it up from below. It has been in there 2 years and I have never had an issue, yet.


 
Did this give you a weaker draft?  I packed some around my liner where it goes up to the chimney and it seems like it has reduced it some.


----------



## EJL923 (Nov 20, 2012)

My draft didn't change at all.  If anything it improved my already rocket booster draft


----------



## clemsonfor (Nov 20, 2012)

Roxul is Fireproof, it is the only insulation rated to be next to appicance flues for burining gases, ie Nat gas or wood exhaust. Even saw it on "Holmes on Homes"!!  The stuff is like a shredded rock i think so its not going to burn regardless, maybe break down? But like said if your chinmey is 2000F+ your wood contact to the masonry will be spontaneously combusting at that point!!

So Yes you can pull the trim if you can do that then stuff it up the chimney around the liner. I have to pull my insert out to even get at my trim anyway?


----------



## EJL923 (Nov 20, 2012)

clemsonfor said:


> Roxul is Fireproof, it is the only insulation rated to be next to appicance flues for burining gases, ie Nat gas or wood exhaust. Even saw it on "Holmes on Homes"!! The stuff is like a shredded rock i think so its not going to burn regardless, maybe break down? But like said if your chinmey is 2000F+ your wood contact to the masonry will be spontaneously combusting at that point!!
> 
> So Yes you can pull the trim if you can do that then stuff it up the chimney around the liner. I have to pull my insert out to even get at my trim anyway?


 
Theres a fire FAQ on the Roxul site which says it hasn't been approved for use around a gas flue.  We all know it works for this application, and Roxul probably could be approved for this application if it wanted to.  Just didn't want anyone to be thinking they are home free.


----------



## clemsonfor (Nov 20, 2012)

EJL923 said:


> Theres a fire FAQ on the Roxul site which says it hasn't been approved for use around a gas flue. We all know it works for this application, and Roxul probably could be approved for this application if it wanted to. Just didn't want anyone to be thinking they are home free.


 OOPS, well maybe in Canada?  Cause thats where Holmes is, he said in the episode...." NO you cant have fiberglass next to the gas flue vent... what does it need to be (talking to one of his girls he teaches and has helping him) the girl replies Roxul?  Right in contact it needs to be Roxul".. Thats where i got it i took it for gospel hearing it from MIke himself!


----------



## etiger2007 (Nov 20, 2012)

If you where to stuff it down your chimney to insulate your ss liner how would you do it?  Im thinking I have to break it in chunks and stuff it down the chimney and insulate the top half of the liner.


----------



## BrotherBart (Nov 20, 2012)

http://www.roxul.com/stone+wool/fire-resistance/rock+doesn’t+burn


----------



## EJL923 (Nov 21, 2012)

The top plate air seals the liner in my chimney, the bottom block off plate seals and insulates.  I just stuffed it up around the smoke shelf and covered with some galvanized sheet steel.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poor-mans-block-off-plate-ii.73018/


----------



## nellraq (Nov 22, 2012)

etiger2007 said:


> If you where to stuff it down your chimney to insulate your ss liner how would you do it? Im thinking I have to break it in chunks and stuff it down the chimney and insulate the top half of the liner.


"Google" roxul pipe insulation.  They make pipe insulation for all sizes of pipe...I believe it was for pipe from 1/2 inch up to several feet wide.  Each size of pipe has different thicknesses of insulation available as well.
I was going to use it when I put in a 6" ss liner last year.  The one I looked at came in 4 foot lengths x 1" of Roxul.  All you do to install it is slide the 1st length over the liner, push it down the pipe, install the next one, push it down...and continue until finished.
I didn't do it because my liner is in an interior chimney - so probably didn't need it.  Turns out I don't need it - the liner works great with great draft for the BK.
If memory serves me right, each 4' section of the insulated 6" pipe cover was around $6.00.  Would have cost me $36+/- to do a 21 foot chimney.  It also would have been *very easy* to install if it was installed at the same time as the liner.


----------



## clemsonfor (Nov 22, 2012)

nellraq said:


> "Google" roxul pipe insulation. They make pipe insulation for all sizes of pipe...I believe it was for pipe from 1/2 inch up to several feet wide. Each size of pipe has different thicknesses of insulation available as well.
> I was going to use it when I put in a 6" ss liner last year. The one I looked at came in 4 foot lengths x 1" of Roxul. All you do to install it is slide the 1st length over the liner, push it down the pipe, install the next one, push it down...and continue until finished.
> I didn't do it because my liner is in an interior chimney - so probably didn't need it. Turns out I don't need it - the liner works great with great draft for the BK.
> If memory serves me right, each 4' section of the insulated 6" pipe cover was around $6.00. Would have cost me $36+/- to do a 21 foot chimney. It also would have been *very easy* to install if it was installed at the same time as the liner.


 way cheaper than the $300 that they charge for say 15ft of insulated 6" liner.


----------



## clemsonfor (Nov 22, 2012)

EJL923 said:


> The top plate air seals the liner in my chimney, the bottom block off plate seals and insulates. I just stuffed it up around the smoke shelf and covered with some galvanized sheet steel.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poor-mans-block-off-plate-ii.73018/


 My top plate has air gaps where the liner is clamped to the top plate, its far from an air tight seal!! I put fiberglass all around the top of the chimney it helped to hold the liner in the middle for the top plate so that it would not be crooked but more importantly that it would make a much better air tight seal.  The liner is say 6.5"s outer diameter and the top plate is probably 6 3/4 to 6 7/8"s, so there is a pretty good gap if you look at it from the top down you can see this gap. The clamp pulls the liner tight in the top plate and kid of snugs it to one side. All liners are made different I guess, mine is from chimney liner depot.


----------



## BucksCounty (Nov 23, 2012)

I have Roxul stuffed around both stoves.  Parent's insert and buddy's insert are both stuffed with the Roxul as well.  Roxul is in contact with liners for all.  My stoves, I have block off plates as well.  Inserts, no plate. Never had a problem.  As was said earlier, if it gets to 2000 outside the liner, you have biggers isssues and it may be time to get out!


----------



## DKranger22 (Mar 18, 2013)

nellraq said:


> "Google" roxul pipe insulation. They make pipe insulation for all sizes of pipe...I believe it was for pipe from 1/2 inch up to several feet wide. Each size of pipe has different thicknesses of insulation available as well.
> I was going to use it when I put in a 6" ss liner last year. The one I looked at came in 4 foot lengths x 1" of Roxul. All you do to install it is slide the 1st length over the liner, push it down the pipe, install the next one, push it down...and continue until finished.
> I didn't do it because my liner is in an interior chimney - so probably didn't need it. Turns out I don't need it - the liner works great with great draft for the BK.
> If memory serves me right, each 4' section of the insulated 6" pipe cover was around $6.00. Would have cost me $36+/- to do a 21 foot chimney. It also would have been *very easy* to install if it was installed at the same time as the liner.


 
Where can you buy the Roxul Pipe Insulation?    My Lowes only seems to carry the regular Roxul products in batts.


----------



## bag of hammers (Mar 18, 2013)

The ads show Roxul being torched and not flinching.  I don't know how hot a propane torch gets, but not hot enough to do anything to a piece of Roxul (yeah, I did the sanity check).  My whole addition is insulated with Roxul.  As others have said, by the time you have enough heat to damage Roxul, you're pretty much into bigger issues...


----------



## nate379 (Mar 18, 2013)

Insulation isn't going to block a draft, you need to seal it with something else.


----------



## bag of hammers (Mar 18, 2013)

nate379 said:


> Insulation isn't going to block a draft, you need to seal it with something else.


 
Not agreeing or disagreeing in general (especially since I have no experience with inserts or liners, etc), but I 'd guess that Roxul would do a better job than, say, fiberglass at at stopping air flow...?  The material is very dense / fibers are tightly bound.    Beyond that, I'm just a Roxul addict...


----------



## Trooper (Mar 21, 2013)

I will be purchasing my first-ever insert soon.  Being a newb, I don't want to tackle the install myself.  A friend recommended an installer, whom I "interviewed" yesterday.  

I asked him if he would be insulating with Roxul and putting in a blockoff plate.  He said he just uses fiberglass for insulation around the damper and that an insulated liner is not needed.  He also said that installing a blockoff plate would be difficult because the damper tubes need to be cut out?  

Just wondering if I should be concerned with these responses.

Thanks!


----------



## DKranger22 (Mar 21, 2013)

Trooper said:


> I will be purchasing my first-ever insert soon. Being a newb, I don't want to tackle the install myself. A friend recommended an installer, whom I "interviewed" yesterday.
> 
> I asked him if he would be insulating with Roxul and putting in a blockoff plate. He said he just uses fiberglass for insulation around the damper and that an insulated liner is not needed. He also said that installing a blockoff plate would be difficult because the damper tubes need to be cut out?
> 
> ...


 
Trooper-  Installing an insert is a long-term job.    With any luck, you'll get a lifetime of use out of it.    So being a job that you're hoping to only do once, it needs to be done right.     You're the customer, and you need to be happy with the end result.    If contractor #1 isn't willing to do it "right", he needs to know that there are dozens of others that you will be talking to, most of whom will be happy to provide you with the products and services that you desire.   

Unless there is a valid reason for not using an insulated liner (i.e. cleanances inside your chimney, it's on an inside wall, etc.), then this might be a legitimate answer.   Even if on an interior wall, it's still not a bad idea to go with an insulated liner anyways.   It cannot hurt, and will only help to ensure that your liner remains warm enough to minimize creosote buildup, which lowers your chances of a potential chimney fire.   For a few hundred bucks extra, why not give yourself the extra piece of mind?    

Regarding a blockoff plate, your contractor's answer scares me... almost as if he has never seen one before.    The blockoff plate is simple to create using plain sheetmetal and tin snips, and I have no idea what he is referring to regarding interference with your "damper tubes".    A hole is cut in the middle of the blockoff plate for your liner to pass through.    You want the radiant heat from your insert to stay in your house and not escape through the chimney.    The blockoff plate will help to ensure that the majority of radiant heat stays in your house.   In my mind, this is a fundamental requirement of any insert installation.

As for using fiberglass insulation vs Roxul, this is a no-brainer.    In the unfortunate event that you do have a chimney fire, the Roxul holds up to ~2,100 degrees and will most likely not ignite.   That wouldn't be the case for the fiberglass stuff, which at that point, only worsens your situation.   Why not use the product that is best suited for the application?    The cost difference is minimal ($40 will get you more than enough Roxul to do the job).    Roxul is the perfect choice for this application.    I would not use fiberglass.

So how did the interview go?   In my mind, I think he gets a D-.    I would be contacting other options if I were you.


----------



## Trooper (Mar 21, 2013)

Thanks DKranger22.  I thought I should be concerned, but just wanted to bounce it off the experts here.  My neighbor raved about the guy, but perhaps my neighbor didn't ask the questions that I did.  I find that consuming info from this forum makes one smarter than the average bear.


----------



## DKranger22 (Mar 21, 2013)

Trooper - My pleasure.   I'm by no means an expert (I'm getting my first insert installed on Saturday), but I think the majority of folks here would agree with my sentiments.   

I had a very similiar experience to you in searching for a contractor to do my install.    Even though my chimney is on an interior wall, no one seemed to think that insulating the liner was important, even for exterior wall applications.    I live in Cleveland, OH, so we can get some pretty cold, winter days, so i found this troubling.   

I couldn't help but feel that I was running into "lazy" contractors that didn't want to take the extra steps to do the job right.    They probably figured that I would be a one-time, uniformed customer who wouldn't know the difference between a hatchet job and a good install.    I found that the more questions I would ask them, the more defensive the contractor would get.    Like, "Oh no, this guy knows what he is talking about...".

Perhaps your neighbor doesn't know the right questions to ask.    When he saw that beautiful, new fireplace blazing away, that was all that mattered to him, so he was happy.    Either way, you're doing the right thing by arming yourself with information.    Don't feel bad by pushing back on the installer and asking him to do the job the way you want it done.    If you do, you'll second guess yourself for the next 20 years.   Even if the insert were to run "good" as quoted, you might never know it's full potential, as the things in question could very easily make a "good" insert perform "great".      

In my mind, liner insulation and a block-off plate packed with Roxul above it are a must for any insert.


----------



## Trooper (Mar 21, 2013)

DKranger22 said:


> Trooper - My pleasure. I'm by no means an expert (I'm getting my first insert installed on Saturday), but I think the majority of folks here would agree with my sentiments  In my mind, liner insulation and a block-off plate packed with Roxul above it are a must for any insert.


Thanks again and completely agree on the liner insulation, block-off plate and Roxul. 
Best of luck with your install tomorrow, and pictures would be appreciated!


----------



## nellraq (Mar 25, 2013)

DKranger22 said:


> Where can you buy the Roxul Pipe Insulation?    My Lowes only seems to carry the regular Roxul products in batts.



The pipe insulation is only available at "industrial supply" outlets.  In my case, no one in my city can get it, but I can get it in 4or5 days from a supplier called Steeles in a city about 45 minutes away.  

I think Steeles Industrial is in the States as well.


----------



## osagebow (Nov 29, 2013)

Decided to do this, and figured I'd bump the thread for the new guys and gals out there. No issues with my ss liner inside an interior chimney with sound tile. Insulating should help it stay a bit cleaner.


----------



## Dave A. (Nov 29, 2013)

Not your fault, osage, but wish there could be some *Bold* type indication in the thread list when an older thread is being replied to (maybe bold or italicise the date).  I have read this thread before, and wasted a bit of time rereading it.  BTW that roxul pipe insulation has issues that won't work with a liner, iirc.


----------



## stejus (Nov 29, 2013)

I stuffed ROXUL up in my smoke shelf and around the liner where it passes through the original damper.   The reason I did this is was because this was wide open because the liner insulation was poured in from the top and it was stopped just above the smoke shelf.  Had it there for around 4 seasons and no problems and all of heat.


----------



## BrotherBart (Nov 29, 2013)

Yeah time for this one to close and be here for posterity.


----------

