# New Wood Burning Guy - Insert Suggestions and Ideas



## JeffStinson (Sep 26, 2013)

Good Morning Everyone,

I’m new to the forums, looking to get my first wood burning insert.  I’ve been around wood stoves and fireplaces most of my life, but really looking to get something to help offset my oil bill at my house.

I have a masonry fireplace, ready to go for a insert.  I have included images below for the specs of my fireplace, along with a diagram of my floor plan!

Hope you guys can help me out! I’m on a small budget, hence why I’m looking for a wood insert since I have a great hookup on seasoned wood!

Home Specs:

1250 sqft above ground (_main/bedroom levels_), 400 sqft family room(s) below ground.
_(The green in picture) _
13-15 ft Chimney
Ps, forgive me for all the mess my fiancé has in the front of our fireplace. (“Fall Decorations”)

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 26, 2013)

Here are some of the insert's I've looked at:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400579296276?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442426_200442426


----------



## jharkin (Sep 26, 2013)

First off - be ready to move that TV.  Even if you have clearance the heat coming off an insert or stove will eventually cook it.


Im not an insert expert, but to give you more specific recommendations there are other things the members will want to know:

- Whats you rough budget for the project
- Are you only considering inserts, or open to a freestanding stove as well?
- Have you had the chimney inspected by a sweep to determine if it needs a liner, etc
- Do you want to completely replace oil, or only supplement?
- Do you want to be able to heat as effectively in power outages as when the power is on (some inserts dont heat well without the blower)
- How old is the house, how well insulated, etc.
- Whats your wood supply situation look like? Do you have any already, can you scrounge or have to buy?

Also, the floor plan is a big help, but to make sure I'm following - is this a side by side split level with one main floor only to the right and a upper floor over basement on left? Do you hope to heat the entire house?   You probably will have trouble getting heat to the far end of the house with an end chimney, word of warning.....

Oh, and a big Welcome to the hearth!


----------



## macattack_ga (Sep 26, 2013)

Don't forget a stainless steel liner and cap.


----------



## Grisu (Sep 26, 2013)

Hi Jeff, welcome to the forum!

I am also not quite following your floorplan but I assume you want to heat about 1200 sqft with the fireplace on the main level. (The family room in the basement will not get any heat as the warm air will rise up not down.) You probably want to look for a medium size insert with a firebox size of 2 to 2.5 cu ft to heat that space in your climate. Plus, smaller stoves will give you heat for about 5 to 6 hours max; too short for overnight burns. The inserts you linked to were all falling short of that. Some inserts to take a look at (check the dimensions but your fireplace has a good size; I assume they will all fit):

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/I2400.aspx
http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/super_insert.php
http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/escape-1800-i-wood-insert
http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/products/1402-wood-burning-insert/
Osburn 2000 or Matrix: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/heaters/wood-inserts
Enviro 1700 series: http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/fireplace-insert.html
http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=303#specs-tab

I have the PE Super insert and can highly recommend it. It gets some of the longest burn times for a medium-sized, non-catalytic insert, has a good convective loop even without the blowers running and one of the best baffle systems in the industry. Nevertheless, you will probably have to spend more than you anticipated regardless of the insert your chose unless you find a used one. Just to give you an idea: If you have the stove shop install it, you are looking at somewhere in the $4000 neighborhood. Probably around $800 less if you do the install yourself.  

Your hearth is pretty deep already; if you get a flush or almost flush insert you may not have to extend the hearth; required clearance is 16". However, the less an insert protrudes into the room the more it will rely on the blower to get the heat distributed, which may not be so good during a power outage. There will certainly be a trade-off for you. 

I would also recommend putting an insulated liner in your exterior chimney. You will have better draft and less creosote formation. In addition, a block-off plate ( https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/ ) and putting Roxul around the insert will help with heat retention ( https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/ ). 

Do you also have seasoned wood available already? All modern EPA-stoves require seasoned wood with moisture content of less than 20 % to run efficiently and safely. Most people here had very disappointing experiences when trying to buy truly seasoned wood and therefore dry it themselves by stacking it with lots of wind and sun exposure for 2 to 3 years before burning it. If you are committed to buy a stove I would take care of the wood ASAP.


----------



## jharkin (Sep 26, 2013)

I looked at his floor plan again and realized what he has is a traditional split level  - two floors on one side, and a single floor on the other. Probably looks something like this:


----------



## bryan (Sep 27, 2013)

I have the CB2500 stove (CW2500) and use it as supplemental to my NG furnance.   I have about a 2000 sq ft two story colonial and am heating from an insulated basement I've only used it for one season of burning pallets and a little bit of seasoned cord wood but with that I can say that 

1) The fire box is small and you won't give you "overnight burns" with it.   Using cord wood you'll have enough coals to restart a fire at 6 am, but don't expect any real heat coming off at that point even if you reloaded at 11 pm.  If I am really pushing the stove I can get heat all the way to the top floor, but be prepared to reload multiple times a day.  

2) I don't use a surround (why spend more $) and get good heat off the insert without the blower, but the blower gets the heat upstairs a bit faster it seems perhaps because the instert is pointed at the exit of the room so the blower gets it there better.  If you can install so the top is protruding from the fireplace (as close to the front edge as possible) I would definitely recommend it.

3) Can't complain about the quality, it all works like it should.  Blower is noisy, but that seems to be the standard knock on inserts.   It is variable speed so if you are watching TV you can turn it down or off.  It doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but we bought online from Ace for like $600 or $650 and nothing else could touch that price.   

In summary:  As a stove for supplemental heat for a small area (<1500 sq ft area) I'd say go for it.  It does the job of heating our basement living room and the main floor when its going, but come early morning the furnace will be running during the dead of winter.  If you are looking to heat an entire house full time you might want to spend a bit more for a bigger firebox.   Try to find a floor model at a stove shop.


----------



## Sprinter (Sep 27, 2013)

I can't comment on the stoves you're looking at, but the sizes (medium - around 2 cf) seems about right.  

Don't underestimate installation costs.  I'd get an installer out there and get an idea of that.  You'll want an insulated liner.  

Can you elaborate on the seasoned wood you have lined up?


----------



## Dave A. (Sep 27, 2013)

I have that Century insert, same insert as Bryan (Century CW2500 with 1.5 cf firebox). I used it for about 1.5 seasons and have since replaced it with a much larger Summit insert. I probably paid for the Century the first year in fuel savings with propane heat.  I suppose if like Bryan I had NG heat I would have been more satisfied.  But after one season with the Century I realized it wasn't enough just to supplement the propane, I really wanted to be able to do more like 90% of my heat with wood, and not be slave to loading the stove every few hours.

I think with your size house you'd be happier with something larger than 2 cf firebox. Unfortunately there aren't many new inserts available at the prices you're looking at with larger fireboxes.  There are more freestanding stoves with larger fireboxes available in the sub $1000. price range. And by putting a freestanding stove in your family room you could heat the whole house better than with an insert in the LR.

As Grisu pointed out, with an insert in the living room fireplace, you won't get much/any heat in the lower level family room. If you install a stove in the lower level family room, you would have the chimney cost to consider without a fireplace but that would be offset some by the cost of a liner which you would need for an insert in the fireplace.

If you're wedded to an insert in the LR fireplace and want something lower priced, keep an eye out for used EPA inserts with firebox over 2 cf. 

Or this larger Century insert might work better for you: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577754_200577754 

The CW2900, for about $1000 at Northern says it has a 16+" deep firebox so you'd be able to do NS loading. The CW2500 is only about 12" deep. The Drolet Escape at NT also made by SBI is similar.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Sep 27, 2013)

Grisu said:


> http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/I2400.aspx http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/super_insert.php http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/escape-1800-i-wood-insert http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/products/1402-wood-burning-insert/ Osburn 2000 or Matrix: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/heaters/wood-inserts Enviro 1700 series: http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/fireplace-insert.html http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=303#specs-tab





ok, im over pouting about Grisu not mentioning MY insert  lol

of the ones he did mention all are great units , if i were to be "picking from the litter" i like the regency model (his first link) little bigger firebox, 2.3 CF is more adapted to give an overnight burn.

that said all are great stoves, liked the LOPI as well but i think it sticks out too far looking at the picture so the hearth would definitely have to be extended for that one.

BTW as mentioned above , don't forget to add the cost of a liner into the project its just as important as the stove


----------



## Grisu (Sep 27, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> ok, im over pouting about Grisu not mentioning MY insert  lol



Sorry, did not want to offend you. You spec the 13 with a 1.8 cu ft firebox; I always put that in the "small" category. Do you think that would be sufficient? Ever thought of building something larger, maybe with 2.5? I would be happy to recommend you more often when people are looking for stoves but there is a large gap between the 13 and the 30.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Sep 27, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Sorry, did not want to offend you. You spec the 13 with a 1.8 cu ft firebox; I always put that in the "small" category. Do you think that would be sufficient? Ever thought of building something larger, maybe with 2.5? I would be happy to recommend you more often when people are looking for stoves but there is a large gap between the 13 and the 30.




im kidding bro, no worries, actually of the ones you listed the regency was a 2.3 CF i think and was the one i liked  out of your selections.  the other i liked was the lopi ,but discounted due to the extension out of the FP and im thinking mine would be pretty tight to the existing hearth as well.hard to say looking at pics though they all may be out enough that extending the hearth may be needed


----------



## Grisu (Sep 27, 2013)

If I would be me I would take a hard look at the Osburn Matrix. It also has a 2.3 cu ft firebox and is a flush insert. Of course, it will probably cost more than the OP wants to spend. Getting something cheaper and a hearth extender or stoveboard should also work. The Regency would probably be a good option there.


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Sep 27, 2013)

yeah, kinda my thinking as well, the osburn is nice , but its a bit more pricy  lol, theres a regency fireplace sale banner right under this box as i type.


----------



## raybonz (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi Jeff welcome to the forum! I have never had an insert but I can speak about free standing stoves. I find a 2 cu. ft. firebox more than adequate heating a 1600 sq. ft. home in SE Mass. and I routinely get 10-12 hr. burns as well. The PE stoves are very efficient secondary burn stoves and would be a good fit for your size home..

Good luck!

Ray


----------



## jharkin (Sep 28, 2013)

Hope we didn't scare off the OP


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 30, 2013)

Hey Guys,

You haven’t scared me off! I’m sorry about not respond right away!
I was out of town in Upstate NY for a wedding and just returned late last night.

As for my insert options, I’m trying to locate either a used regency unit, or a new unit somewhere between $800-$1000.. I also will be getting a flexpipe 15’ liner since my chimney is only 13ft.

As for heating, I’m only hoping to heat my living area downstairs and have some warm are I can push to my upstairs bedroom, while keeping our spare bedrooms closed. ( I can use a small ceramic space heater to help offset oil prices.)

As for my wood, I have a hook up for $100 a cord, seasoned oak & hard maple (friends business). I have a covered back patio which I plan to stack close to the house on a rack.

Does anyone know of any used units possibly for sale here?

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## mass_burner (Sep 30, 2013)

also don't forget about style of insert. i can't see the rest of your house, but make sure you get a stove that compliments the house and your own decorating style. our house is a modern mid-century, that's why the flush mount morso 5660 with its clean lines worked out so well.


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 30, 2013)

mass_burner said:


> also don't forget about style of insert. i can't see the rest of your house, but make sure you get a stove that compliments the house and your own decorating style. our house is a modern mid-century, that's why the flush mount morso 5660 with its clean lines worked out so well.



That’s one of the main reasons I, well, my fiancé would like a an insert with windows, so when we have company, the fireplace will create a nice relaxing mood.



If looks weren’t a concern, I could have picked up a nice Baker Insert. (Great quality – only $500)



Just want something with a ceramic glass window, 1.8-2.3 box, and a decent blower. Used/New, just something that I can fit into my budget.

Would anyone recommend a Appalachian 4N1-Xl Trailmaster? I found one in my budget, now I just need to get a liner, and insulate the fireplace.


----------



## begreen (Sep 30, 2013)

I would shoot for a new insert. You can get a decent one for around $1000. It will use less wood and the glass will stay cleaner. The difference in cost over a season will be trivial.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tnc13i--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1550131500.html
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1857
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1934


----------



## mass_burner (Sep 30, 2013)

my fiancé would like a an insert with windows, so when we have company, the fireplace will create a nice relaxing mood.

i would agree with your fiance, especially if your stove is in the main room. the morso 5660 has a huge viewing window, its also nice to see what's going on in there, if your not an expert burner like me. the morso is also a convexion stove, it has a fan, but I hardly ever use it. i used it with and without the fan, and it did't make a difference. so that's a decision too. i would caution against skimping. do the math, oil price, how long you plan to stay in the house, resale, etc. also, make sure you address your air sealing and insulation issues. makes no sense to put heat into a house and then lose it to air leaks and poor insulation. with my wood stoves running, my goal is to use only 175-200 gallons of oil per year.


----------



## Sons924 (Sep 30, 2013)

that appalachian looks to require a 8" flue or an adapter to convert to 6". I personally wouldn't consider a used insert. It could need new gaskets, the blower could quit. Then you could be close to the same amount as a new one. Plus you don't know if it's been overfired. I understand the budget concerns completely. The windsor from ebay is made by monessen, which is now the parent company to Vermont Castings. I don't know much about the windsor but i love my VC. If you are looking at Northern tool check out the Volzengang "The Colonial".  It's 899.00 but it includes the surround, blower and hardware kit. It's a steel stove that is rated to put out almost 70,000 btu and says will heat 1800 sq feet.


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 30, 2013)

What about a freestanding stove like this placed inside my fireplace hearth?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Stove-3...S_Heating_Stoves&hash=item4d129d3b95#shpCntId


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 30, 2013)

This might be the perfect addition to my house:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stove-Me...7320?pt=US_Heating_Stoves&hash=item5af3fddd08


----------



## madison (Sep 30, 2013)

You possibly may not have enough clearance in front of a freestanding wood stove. 

--Download a couple insert and freestanding stove installation manuals and research the clearance requirements sections.


----------



## raybonz (Sep 30, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> This might be the perfect addition to my house:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stove-Me...7320?pt=US_Heating_Stoves&hash=item5af3fddd08


That stove is very light and I wonder how long it would last..

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 30, 2013)

How much clearance do I need if it's inside the hearth?


----------



## lumbering on (Sep 30, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> What about a freestanding stove like this placed inside my fireplace hearth?



I'm a big fan of the freestanding stove.
I can easily see a Jotul F3 sitting in there.

http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/jotul-f-3-cb


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 1, 2013)

Not sure if it will fit, but I may have a used PE Summit for sale soon.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 1, 2013)

So I’m narrowing it down to an insert I can find with a firebox of at least 2.0ft which will put me over my budget, or a free standing stove that I can squeeze into my hearth.
I’ve found a great couple deals on Majestic and Century’s inserts, but they are only 1.3-1.5 fireboxes, and I feel I won’t be able to heat as much as I want to.

I’m really set on the Englander NC30.. My local HD has one, and I want to go check them out.  I would love to place this inside my hearth and use this solely to heat most of my home. 
I feel based on the reviews, a block off plate, and a steel liner, I can achieve this with this stove.

The stove is literally a 28-29” high stove.. I wonder if I grinded off some of the legs if I can clear this? The inside of my hearth is higher once past the clearing, basically where my flue is, which I will need to grind out & clear to accommodate a 6” liner.


Can anyone give me there thoughts on doing this? 
I’m guessing at most, my home is 1500-1700 sqft and I only truly want to heat the main floor and uppers so I’m guessing that puts me at 1300-1500 sqft.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 1, 2013)

Jeff-

I think you will find the 30 will be able to cook you out of the house if you want it to. Its a great choice I'm sure you will be happy with.

As far as the install, Im no expert but I think any modification will both void the warranty and also risk failing inspection and insurance approval.  The 30 however comes with an alternate pedestal mount option that I think is shorter than the legs and might solve your problem.  You can download the manual from their website to check the clearances and requirements

http://www.englanderstoves.com/30-nc.html

We also have a great resource here in member _stoveguy2esw_ - Mike Holton from Englander.  You might try reaching out to him via PM and I bet he would be happy to give you the official factory word.


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 1, 2013)

You are probably going to need a rear vent stove if you plan to run the pipe up the chimney. And still you might not have the room on the hearth for the stove. There's nothing wrong with an insert. Freestanding does put out more heat without the blower, but inserts use the blower to push out the heat.


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 1, 2013)

Check out the nc30i. http://englanderstoves.com/13-nci.html

1500 sq feet heating. Big glass window.1.8 cu in firebox.


----------



## mass_burner (Oct 1, 2013)

> "First off - be ready to move that TV. Even if you have clearance the heat coming off an insert or stove will eventually cook it"



Is this absolutely true? I have such a setup, but with a full motion mount. Doesn't seem to be an issue.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 1, 2013)

mass_burner said:


> "First off - be ready to move that TV. Even if you have clearance the heat coming off an insert or stove will eventually cook it"
> 
> Is this absolutely true? I have such a setup, but with a full motion mount. Doesn't seem to be an issue.


Just be aware that heat is the enemy of any electronic equipment.  Every installation will be different.  Your TV manual should give operating temperature range specs and you can go from there.  Personally, I don't think I'd be too comfortable with a TV directly above my stove.  YMMV.


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 1, 2013)

mass_burner said:


> "First off - be ready to move that TV. Even if you have clearance the heat coming off an insert or stove will eventually cook it"
> 
> Is this absolutely true? I have such a setup, but with a full motion mount. Doesn't seem to be an issue.



I would definitely keep an eye on the temps there.  I know with my Summit (without a fan blowing directly at that area above the mantle to circulate the heat that stratifies there) I record temps in the mid to upper 90sF in that location.  Ymmv, but I wouldn't take the risk with my own tv.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 1, 2013)

I've seen the ceiling above my stove read 85 or more, Thats 5 feet off the stove top.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 1, 2013)

Sons924 said:


> Check out the nc30i. http://englanderstoves.com/13-nci.html
> 
> 1500 sq feet heating. Big glass window.1.8 cu in firebox.


I would think that the Englander 13 would work fine for that house if it fits.  You're not going to get much of that heat to the lower level anyway.

Regarding insert vs freestanding, a freestanding stove will probably be more effective if you can do it physically.  An insert needs a blower to get the heat out into the room.  Radiant heat will be less.  If the masonry is on an outside wall exposed to the outside, some of the heat will be radiated out and lost.  If the fireplace is central, inside the house, it won't matter.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 1, 2013)

jharkin said:


> I've seen the ceiling above my stove read 85 or more, Thats 5 feet off the stove top.


That wouldn't be too bad, but I'd be more concerned with my TV absorbing radiant heat so close.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 1, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> That wouldn't be too bad, but I'd be more concerned with my TV absorbing radiant heat so close.



Yeah the ceiling doesn't worry me, but it did make me think his TV at 1 ft way might see well over 100f temps.

Edit, that TV is probably too close for the clearance requirements of most stoves anyway.


----------



## DBoon (Oct 1, 2013)

Check out the Lopi Answer free-standing stove.  I have one in a similar fireplace opening, and it heats a 1250 square foot house well enough to offset the oil usage.  My bedrooms are also at the far end of the house, so they are cooler, but we like it that way.

A Lopi Answer stove will not be really convenient for 24/7 burning, but you said "offset", not "eliminate" oil usage.  And it has a nice window to watch the fire.  It is also double-jacketed and if outfitted with a blower, will move most of the heat into the room.

Downsides - price (~$2500).  It's a good stove, but you pay for the quality. 
Upsides - it probably fits in the opening, vents out the top (straight up the flue, and with a 13' chimney, you want it as straight as you can get it to hold a good draft), has a big viewing window for a small stove.

I would get your wood dry first - what your friend says is seasoned is likely not dry enough.  You will just frustrate yourself trying to burn with that wood this year.  We've all been there, so learn from us.  Then, save up your money for a good stove.  I won't contradict the advice you'll get from others on what size stove to buy, but just make sure that you know what your goals are (e.g. "eliminate oil usage" or "offset oil usage") and buy what you need.


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 1, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> You're not going to get much of that heat to the lower level anyway.



Right, that's a split level so he might get some heat down there in the higher parts even with the stove/insert in the mid level LR.  Though actually it depends on how many steps down the lower level is.  Most splits I've seen the bedrooms are more steps away than the lower level, which in some cases might only be a few steps down.  Also depends on how the room(s) down there are laid out (I didn't see a drawing of the lower level).


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 1, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> So I’m narrowing it down to an insert I can find with a firebox of at least 2.0ft which will put me over my budget, or a free standing stove that I can squeeze into my hearth.
> I’ve found a great couple deals on Majestic and Century’s inserts, but they are only 1.3-1.5 fireboxes, and I feel I won’t be able to heat as much as I want to.
> 
> I’m really set on the Englander NC30.. My local HD has one, and I want to go check them out.  I would love to place this inside my hearth and use this solely to heat most of my home.
> ...



The 30 comes with a pedestal base and the optional 9" legs. 
They do also make a 6" leg kit.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 1, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> The 30 comes with a pedestal base and the optional 9" legs.
> They do also make a 6" leg kit.


If that fits, I'd say go for it.  It probably is overkill in size, but you can have smaller fires and I'm unfamiliar with your climate.  Other 30 owners can address the issue of size better, but it or the 13 is probably the best stove available for your budget.  As others have said, you generally get what you pay for, but the Englander line seems to be a bit of an exception.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> If that fits, I'd say go for it.  It probably is overkill in size, but you can have smaller fires and I'm unfamiliar with your climate.  Other 30 owners can address the issue of size better, but it or the 13 is probably the best stove available for your budget.  As others have said, you generally get what you pay for, but the Englander line seems to be a bit of an exception.



From what I’m seeing, the 26” high Englander NC-13 would fit in my house. I wonder how long the burn times are? I’m REALLY trying to offset using any oil. 

As for the wood, the Wood is dry, he does this for a living and is kept out of the elements minus air and breeze. It’s great burning and I can refer him. His prices are $130 a cord. (South Central Pennslyvania)


----------



## bryan (Oct 2, 2013)

If the 6" legs on the NC-30 don't make it work could you take a row or two of bricks out to give yourself more height?   You might have to redo the front of the hearth, but it would open up more options.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm having a hearth and sweep come by Friday. I will ask him about that.

I'm not too knowledgeable about that aspect, and would welcome the idea if i could put a longer burning stove like the NC-30 in vs the -13.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 2, 2013)

Stove is still too tall for their fireplace with the six inch legs. The stove top would then be 27" high but the flue collar/heat shield add two more inches of height. Wouldn't be able to get to the liner/flue collar to attach it.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Stove is still too tall for their fireplace with the six inch legs. The stove top would then be 27" high but the flue collar/heat shield add two more inches of height. Wouldn't be able to get to the liner/flue collar to attach it.




Are we talking about the NC-13 or the 30?


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 2, 2013)

The 30. We were typing at the same time.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> The 30. We were typing at the same time.



I would like to find a way to use that stove. Granted, my sqft is in the NC-13 specs, but with it being inside the heart, I wonder how much of the “efficiency” I will lose. I do plan on doing a seal above the stove to keep the heat in (Similar to yours)

I’m going to stop by my local HD today to look at the sizes as well as the US stove. I’m also waiting to hear back from Mike from Englanders about the NC-13.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 2, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> I wonder how long the burn times are? I’m REALLY trying to offset using any oil.


It sounds like burn time is the main reason you are focused on the bigger stoves.  What are your needs for burn time?  Is it overnight burns or daytime burns that are important?  How fast does the house lose heat?  Are you okay with starting a new fire when you get home as long as the house is not too cold?  Everybody has a different idea of what burn time means, so take that into account in the discussions.  For many of us, burn time is when there are still enough coals to start a new fire, even if the stove itself has cooled.  It also depends on your fuel, how full you stuff the stove, etc.

I'd be a little concerned if you stuff a 3.5 cf stove in your house just to get a long burn time.  It may get way too warm in the house which is also very inefficient.

There are a lot of 13 and 30 owners here.  It may help if you ask a specific question on a new thread to get more of those folks since you are narrowing it down.

Also, is a freestanding stove out of the loop?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> It sounds like burn time is the main reason you are focused on the bigger stoves.  What are your needs for burn time?  Is it overnight burns or daytime burns that are important?  How fast does the house lose heat?  Are you okay with starting a new fire when you get home as long as the house is not too cold?  Everybody has a different idea of what burn time means, so take that into account in the discussions.  For many of us, burn time is when there are still enough coals to start a new fire, even if the stove itself has cooled.  It also depends on your fuel, how full you stuff the stove, etc.
> 
> I'd be a little concerned if you stuff a 3.5 cf stove in your house just to get a long burn time.  It may get way too warm in the house which is also very inefficient.
> 
> ...




As for the burn time, i work 8:30-5 and have a 30 minute commute, if i could keep a small bed of coals ready for when i get home and have a reasonable temperature in my house i would be happy. I just know the 30 have had reports of 8-10 hour times, which are awesome.  I agree that the 3.5ft cf stove is a bit big, i would love some input from -13 Owners.

As for freestanding, both of those stoves are freestanding, just inserted within the lintel of my fireplace, that's my goal. I don't really have the room nor do i want to extend it out anymore in my home.

I do have forced hot air so technically a second 6" stainless chimney in the basement for my oil furnace.. Is it possible to add a wood furnace and burn through that to heat the entire house?


----------



## begreen (Oct 2, 2013)

It sounds like a stove that can be installed with or without legs may work out better for you. Have you looked at the midsized Bucks or the Avalon Rainier?


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 2, 2013)

Here's a thread discussing burn times:   https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-burn-times-30nch-compared-to-13nch.66031/

You can do a search on here for more.  Google searches often return a lot of Hearth.com threads also.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 2, 2013)

I don't recall if this was discussed earlier, but I believe that the 13 requires a 2.0 R value on the hearth, and the 30 requires R1.5.  I don't know how your hearth is constructed, but this will be a factor.


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Stove is still too tall for their fireplace with the six inch legs. The stove top would then be 27" high but the flue collar/heat shield add two more inches of height. Wouldn't be able to get to the liner/flue collar to attach it.



Couldn't you pull the liner down and attach from inside the stove.  I know Regency and Osburn offer kits for doing that when there are clearance problems. I was considering one of them with my insert and low lintel height.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 2, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Couldn't you pull the liner down and attach from inside the stove.  I know Regency and Osburn offer kits for doing that when there are clearance problems. I was considering one of them with my insert and low lintel height.



Nope. Conventional two inch flue collar. Way back there in the stove. Besides, it would require tilting the stove back some to get the heat shield and flue collar under the lintel. With a good possibility of breaking one or both back legs. And then once it is in the the air moving over the top out of the heat shield would just slam into the front of the smoke chamber.

My fireplace is 32" high at the lintel and the installation was a bear.


----------



## begreen (Oct 2, 2013)

Take a look at this install and see what you think. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-for-the-help-hearth-com.114291/#post-1533466


----------



## AnalogKid (Oct 2, 2013)

You are going to need 4-5 full cord to offset using oil completely.  Are you cool with still having to spend $400-$500, plus a lot of your effort and time?  I know if I had to pay for wood, I would not have decided to heat with wood.  Do you have the space to store it all planned out?  Racks or whatever system you plan to use to stack it?  Even if your buddy delivers one cord at a time, a cord takes up quite a chunk of space.

I am new to this game too, I was like you last year.  Scrambling to chose a stove, researching liners, insulating, caps, prepping chimney, picking a dealer, etc., etc.  There is a lot involved.  I got it done, came out great, love my stove, but I had about three-quarters of a cord of wood ready to go and the entire season was a scramble to get wood together.  I wound up with lots of subpar wood.  Doesn't seem like you will have that issue, but the reason I brought it up is because I wished I had focused on my wood supply in year one, and focused on my stove in year two.

Heating with wood is awesome, but there is a lot of work involved.  Willing to buy your wood supply will greatly simplify things, but kind of defeats the purpose, IMO.


----------



## raybonz (Oct 2, 2013)

AnalogKid said:


> You are going to need 4-5 full cord to offset using oil completely.  Are you cool with still having to spend $400-$500, plus a lot of your effort and time?  I know if I had to pay for wood, I would not have decided to heat with wood.  Do you have the space to store it all planned out?  Racks or whatever system you plan to use to stack it?  Even if your buddy delivers one cord at a time, a cord takes up quite a chunk of space.
> 
> I am new to this game too, I was like you last year.  Scrambling to chose a stove, researching liners, insulating, caps, prepping chimney, picking a dealer, etc., etc.  There is a lot involved.  I got it done, came out great, love my stove, but I had about three-quarters of a cord of wood ready to go and the entire season was a scramble to get wood together.  I wound up with lots of subpar wood.  Doesn't seem like you will have that issue, but the reason I brought it up is because I wished I had focused on my wood supply in year one, and focused on my stove in year two.
> 
> Heating with wood is awesome, but there is a lot of work involved.  Willing to buy your wood supply will greatly simplify things, but kind of defeats the purpose, IMO.


Buying wood c\s\d is well worth it.. I only spend $550.00 a year and add if some happens my way.. Much easier and faster to just stack it but I understand those who do this.. To heat my home to 75 degrees year round with oil would cost a great deal more..

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

So what is my best bet for a value but efficient heating beast that can fit in my structure?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 2, 2013)

begreen said:


> It sounds like a stove that can be installed with or without legs may work out better for you. Have you looked at the midsized Bucks or the Avalon Rainier?



That Avalon days minimum height is 21 inches which I clear easily.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 2, 2013)

You may have to stretch that budget, but it will pay off in the long run to get the stove that best meets your long-term needs. The extra cost will be pretty minimal over the life of the stove and will be well worth it if you get it right.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Well i have someone local selling a Dutchwest DW2500X02 insert. It has a 1.3sqf box though, and only up to 1500 sqft. It's only a few years old, but i'm skeptical.
Specs: http://www.sweepsusa.net/pdfs/DW_Plate_Steel-brochure.pdf


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 3, 2013)

1.3 square box is small, you won't get the burn times your looking for


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

USMC80 said:


> 1.3 square box is small, you won't get the burn times your looking for



That’s what I figured, let alone the amount of area I would like to heat.
I wonder if the Englander -13, remove the feet, and mount the stove on bricks in my hearth would work. I’ve seen and read about a few people doing that in their hearth for clearance purposes.


----------



## begreen (Oct 3, 2013)

Englander makes an insert version called the 13NCI .


----------



## bryan (Oct 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> Englander makes an insert version called the 13NCI .



Yeah, but for reasons I still can't understand the 13NC retails for $650 and the insert version retails for $1100.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

I can't figure out what exactly to do..

Anyone have the best idea?

What i'm looking for:


Whole home heating
Long Burn Times
No modification of chimney
Small Budget


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

the small budget is killing you! Concentrate on your wood supply and save up until you can afford something decent. 
http://www.harmanstoves.com/Products/300i-Wood-Insert.aspx

75,000 BTUs — heats 1,600 to 4,300 square feet, based on climate and home efficiency
3 cu. ft. interior capacity / 20" maximum log length
Up to 17 hours of steady, even heat from each load of wood†
Standard blower to heat home more effectively
this is what i wanted but i chose to go with a flush insert.


It's alot of money but if you can install it yourself you can probably get it done in the 3500-4000 range. Or look online for something used in the spring and summer of next year when it's not about to be burning season. Create a "large wood burning insert wanted ad" on craigslist and see who chimes in. 
Remember that this purchase will be saving you money, and if you invest wisely, it can pay for itself in couple years with fuel savings!

UNLESS

 Is somewhere else in your house you can install a free standing stove, and leave the fireplace alone?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Sons924 said:


> UNLESS
> 
> Is somewhere else in your house you can install a free standing stove, and leave the fireplace alone?



My basement.. I have a secondary stainless steel chimney for my Forced Hot Air via my Oil Furnace.

I can put something down there maybe? (Directly under my living room)


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

you can't use one chimney for two things.

If you want a short term solution then purchase that century from northertool. It's cheap, brand new, and will help to take the chill out. It will help with oil consumption but you might still need to kick the furnace on on cold nights. The positive side would be that you will get used to wood burning.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 3, 2013)

Has anyone mentioned Pacific Energy's True North TN19?  It's 1.9 cf which is about the right size.  Around $900.   You'd have to check the dimensions for fit.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Has anyone mentioned Pacific Energy's True North TN19?  It's 1.9 cf which is about the right size.  Around $900.   You'd have to check the dimensions for fit.



Looks discontinued.. :/

I really like the Osburn 2000 insert. I think that would be the perfect fit, but the price is the only thing holding me back


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 3, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Looks discontinued.. :/
> 
> I really like the Osburn 2000 insert. I think that would be the perfect fit, but the price is the only thing holding me back


I can't comment on that particular stove, but that seems to be the most popular price point.  If you can possibly stretch it to there, I think you'll be much happier in the long run.  But look at everything else in that price range as there is a lot of competition there and a lot of great stoves.  Pacific Energy's Super insert, for example, has a reputation for long burn times.


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Osburn-2000...92943770?pt=US_Fireplaces&hash=item338616599a


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I can't comment on that particular stove, but that seems to be the most popular price point.  If you can possibly stretch it to there, I think you'll be much happier in the long run.  But look at everything else in that price range as there is a lot of competition there and a lot of great stoves.  Pacific Energy's Super insert, for example, has a reputation for long burn times.



Yea, I’m trying to find the Super insert. I’m having troubles finding them, as I know PE’s new inserts are dropping this month.




Sons924 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Osburn-2000-Wood-Burning-Fireplace-Insert-w-Blower-Free-Shipping-New-/221292943770?pt=US_Fireplaces&hash=item338616599a[/quote]
> 
> I’ve had my eye on this for a while today.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Sons924 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Osburn-2000...92943770?pt=US_Fireplaces&hash=item338616599a



Also have this in my sights:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190785189411?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

you will still have to figure in the freight cost. The Osburn has a bigger firebox. Vermont Castings just sold out to Monessen, but i still bought a VC Montpelier. It is a cast stove, and the savannah is a steel stove. The osburn is 75000 btu while the savannah is 55000 btu.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Based on my budget, need for clean/inspection/install, I think I’ve found my setup.

I’m going with this insert: *Vogelzang Colonial Fireplace Insert* - Model# TR004
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200394621_200394621

Reasons Why:

  6-8 Hour Burn Times
  2.1 csqft Firebox
  Budget and great reviews
  Recommended by members here
  Shroud is included

6” Stainless Liner Kit: ($220 shipped via BO)

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261059871393?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

*Block Off Plate*

As for the install, I’m probably going to have my chimney inspector do the install as they offer that service.  I will discuss everything with them tomorrow on inspection/clean.

I will follow up with everyone tomorrow!  Let me know what you think!


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 3, 2013)

You may want to read up on the issues involved with Vermont Castings.
Warranty at time of purchase, may not necessarily hold long.
This has been an issue every time they were bought out and changed hands.


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

Go for it


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 3, 2013)

Sons924 said:


> Go for it



Is that a bad smiley or a approval?


----------



## raybonz (Oct 3, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Based on my budget, need for clean/inspection/install, I think I’ve found my setup.
> 
> I’m going with this insert: *Vogelzang Colonial Fireplace Insert* - Model# TR004
> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200394621_200394621
> ...


That's a nice looking insert for a good price! Good luck and keep us posted..

Ray


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 3, 2013)

That's a good smiley. My father in law has the volzengang free standing stove "the performer". It's an absolute beast. It heats 3000 sq ft with ease. So I can say good things about the brand.
Now that u made your mind up get you friend to drop off some wood and get it stacked and covered ASAP. Don't forget to do your break in burns.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 6, 2013)

Quick update:

Going with this insert based on price and firebox size, including the surround.

http://www.northerntool.com/mt/www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577754_200577754

Stainless 15' x 6" liner, cap, and block off plate.

Total project cost with installation and  2 cords of wood: $1800


----------



## raybonz (Oct 6, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Quick update:
> 
> Going with this insert based on price and firebox size, including the surround.
> 
> ...


Jeff the link doesn't work here..

Ray


----------



## raybonz (Oct 6, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Quick update:
> 
> Going with this insert based on price and firebox size, including the surround.
> 
> ...


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577754_200577754

This link works.. Nice looking insert and nice price! What is the cu. ft. of the firebox?

BTW save your receipts to get the tax credit 

Ray


----------



## begreen (Oct 6, 2013)

Good deal. I believe this is about a 2 cu ft stove. It should definitely put a dent in those heating bills. Take some shots when it gets installed.


----------



## raybonz (Oct 6, 2013)

begreen said:


> Good deal. I believe this is about a 2 cu ft stove. It should definitely put a dent in those heating bills. Take some shots when it gets installed.


Thanx BG! Are these made in USA or Canada? Seems like a well made unit and good pricing.. Checking out their website.. Good info there..

Ray


----------



## begreen (Oct 6, 2013)

Century is an SBI brand. I am not sure if they are making all their products in CA. The last I read the Century plant was in Orilla.


----------



## raybonz (Oct 6, 2013)

begreen said:


> Century is an SBI brand. I am not sure if they are making all their products in CA. The last I read the Century plant was in Orilla.


Looked at the online brochure after posting and saw it was written in Frenglish and figured Canada.. Seems like a solid product at a solid price. 

Surprised how dead this forum is and looking forward to more chatter.. How have you and the family been?

Ray


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 6, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Quick update:
> 
> Going with this insert based on price and firebox size, including the surround.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the perfect solution.  Good job in your research.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 6, 2013)

raybonz said:


> Looked at the online brochure after posting and saw it was written in Frenglish and figured Canada.. Seems like a solid product at a solid price.
> 
> Surprised how dead this forum is and looking forward to more chatter.. How have you and the family been?
> 
> Ray



Oops. here it is:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577754_200577754



Sprinter said:


> Sounds like the perfect solution.  Good job in your research.


Thanks! You guys helped me out a lot.

My chimney sweep said i should open a wood stove shop since i was rattling off inserts. After he saw the layout of my home, he said this will easily heat the size plus the upstairs with ease.
The chimney was in decent shape, clean, but we need to remove the flue baffle, run the liner, and then install the block off plate, all which is going to be done by him. He gave me a great price for the installation, inspection, and quick clean. ($500)

I really appreciate all the help everyone has been in my searches for the alternate heating insert, and i couldn't have done it without you.

This week's to do:


Order the insert
Get 2 Cords of seasoned wood stacked and covered, & ready.
Gather some pallets for kindling and start collecting newspaper
Purchase other small supplies: Axe, Hatchet, Maul, Ash Bucket, fireplace tools, and inside log rack.
Mantle solution to block off heat to tv, purchase and hide small fan to move the air around TV.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 6, 2013)

raybonz said:


> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577754_200577754
> 
> This link works.. Nice looking insert and nice price! What is the cu. ft. of the firebox?
> 
> ...



Oh i will. I'm frugal, so I'm keeping that receipt for sure!



begreen said:


> Good deal. I believe this is about a 2 cu ft stove. It should definitely put a dent in those heating bills. Take some shots when it gets installed.



I plan on completely offsetting any heating bill, and strictly heating with wood. I will purchase oil for emergency/cold nights only. (100-200 gallons) 
We measured the square feet off the main living area, and with keeping the doors to the upstairs closed, and our room bedroom's open, this insert should easily produce the amount of heat we'll need + more!


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 6, 2013)

As I recall, you said you will be buying seasoned wood from a friend.  To make the new stove work properly it is critical that the wood supply be dried to a certain point.  You should get a moisture meter and measure the wood on the face of a fresh split.  20% moisture content is what you shoot for.  You can get away with up to about 25% with a little loss of efficiency, but over that you run the risk of creosote problems and generally poor performance.  The problem with the term "seasoned" is that it has no real meaning.  Actual moisture content is what is important.  

If it doesn't meet those specs, get back to us and we may be able to help you with some workarounds.  Good luck with everything.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> As I recall, you said you will be buying seasoned wood from a friend.  To make the new stove work properly it is critical that the wood supply be dried to a certain point.  You should get a moisture meter and measure the wood on the face of a fresh split.  20% moisture content is what you shoot for.  You can get away with up to about 25% with a little loss of efficiency, but over that you run the risk of creosote problems and generally poor performance.  The problem with the term "seasoned" is that it has no real meaning.  Actual moisture content is what is important.
> 
> If it doesn't meet those specs, get back to us and we may be able to help you with some workarounds.  Good luck with everything.



+1000

Sadly very few sellers advertising 'seasoned' wood will deliver dry wood. Partly because most people don't know any better and partly because they couldn't actually make a living storing hundreds or thousands of cord in rows for 2 years before sale. Odds are the split when you order, if you get a good one it may have been split and piled for 6mo.

Most all of us went through misery our first year with an epa stove due to the wood. Like sprinter says check it out and let us know. There are options.

If you can afford it consider buying 2 years of wood now, it will get you a JumpStart on having real dry wood next year. You might be able to negotiate a quantity discount.


----------



## begreen (Oct 6, 2013)

Agreed if you can find truly seasoned wood at this time of year you have hit paydirt. Resplit some of the wood before accepting the load and check the freshly split face of wood to avoid unpleasant surprises. If the wood is truly dry, expect to pay a premium price. Do it without complaint.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 6, 2013)

This is one of my 3 sellers for firewood. Other two are Friends. I'll probably get my first cord here for burning, the later from friends logging/firewood business. (Oak, apple, hickory, and maple)


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 6, 2013)

Oops

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/grd/4041752310.html


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 7, 2013)

oh man, everything about that article sets off alarms.  Hate to say it but that would probably isn't actually "seasoned".  Even looks green in the pics.  Hickory and oak take a minimum of two years of being split and stacked outside in the sun and wind to truly season.  Bring a axe and moisture meter, split a piece then take a measurement


----------



## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

We'll see. It could be your friends may need some education on dry wood too. I'd buy a moisture meter and test the wood on a freshly split face. I wouldn't plan on burning the oak or hickory for a year or two.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 7, 2013)

Not to pile on, but lots of red flags on that ad.  You cannot dry wood in a heap like that.  It has to be properly stacked and exposed to the breeze.  Also, no way is it 5% mc.  In Arizona you might get down to 10% after a while, but 20% is about the best you can expect normally.  And oak can take two or even three years to get there.

Having said that, it may be a good supply for a couple of years down the road.  This is why most folks suggest getting a few years supply ahead


----------



## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

Methinks he needs a new moisture meter and a little help with how to use and read it.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 7, 2013)

begreen said:


> Methinks he needs a new moisture meter and a little help with how to use and read it.


There was another recent CL ad with the seller sticking a meter into the end of a round to prove the wood was unrealistically dry.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 7, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> There was another recent CL ad with the seller sticking a meter into the end of a round to prove the wood was unrealistically dry.



Yea i remember that one. funny.

Jeff-
Don't get discouraged.... We are just trying to help you avoid the mistakes most of us made at first


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 7, 2013)

Ok.. couple snags, as reading this it ad’s to the singular issue below.

The chimney inspector I originally hired, quoted me $500 on installing my Liner, Insert, and block off plate.  
I was now given a quote of $1230 for the installation which includes Liner, Installation, Insulation, and block off plate. 

He also said according to NFPA211 that I need to insulate the liner? Is that accurate?

Message from Chimney Inspector:



> Liner will be insulated using vermiculite.
> 
> All items have manufacturers lifetime warranty.
> 
> ...







jharkin said:


> Yea i remember that one. funny.
> 
> Jeff-
> Don't get discouraged.... We are just trying to help you avoid the mistakes most of us made at first



not a problem, i greatly appreciate it.


----------



## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

$730 for just insulation seems a tad steep. It definitely should be done but this is a pretty easy process.


----------



## Sprinter (Oct 7, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> The chimney inspector I originally hired, quoted me $500 on installing my Liner, Insert, and block off plate. I was now given a quote of $1230 for the installation which includes Liner, Installation, Insulation, and block off plate.


I don't quite understand.  What's the overall breakdown of material and installation?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 7, 2013)

This may help explain it better?


----------



## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

Was the $500 estimate and the $1230 quote from the same company or different ones? $1230 for a full insulated liner is not out of line. The $500 estimate is what seems a bit low.


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 7, 2013)

Pretty sure 1/2" batt insulation glued to the liner and covered with wire mesh is the preferred way to go. I'd want to know why the vermiculite over batt and if not batt then why not the commercial material Thermix poured in a slurry. Loose vermiculite does not sound good to me -- does it even meet code and give a UL rating. http://www.chimneys.com/articles/listed-chimney-liner-insulation-that-doesnt-work

Thought it was only required when the clay liner has cracks or is missing, but insulation is definitely recommended especially on an exterior chimney.  In fact, if the insert mfr approves, I'd consider addl insulation around the back and sides of the insert in the fireplace cavity (leaving an airspace around the insert) since the FP is on an exterior wall.

And nothing in that estimate about a block off plate. Might want another estimate.  Thought OP was buying the liner and parts himself.


----------



## begreen (Oct 7, 2013)

It's an exterior, short chimney. Insulation is definitely recommended for this installation and required by code in many states. Check with the local inspecting authority if unsure.


----------



## raybonz (Oct 7, 2013)

If you can wrap the liner with foil backed insulation I'd always take that road whether it is an outside or inside liner... Reduces creosote and enhances draft..

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 7, 2013)

After reading about vermiculite, it seems like a very good product.

My chimney wasn’t in 100% best shape, had 1-2 small cracks, towards the top of the crown, and the tiles in the middle had a small shift.
He insured me that this wouldn’t mess with an insert since I would be running a liner and insulating it since it’s needed by code.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 9, 2013)

Hey Guys, So i ran into a big issue today..

My chimney guy backed out of doing this install, for unknown reasons. I think it was that i questioned how his install price went from $375 to $1230.

That being said, my brother is a certified contractor, and knows chimneys very well, we are thinking of doing this ourselves, along with my father, and a regular laborer. Between the 4 of us, the insert, duraflex, and making the block off plate, we are set...

The only thing i need is, what type of insulation should i get for my liner? Roxul? What do i use? Thanks guys.


----------



## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

The liner gets insulated with a special foil backed kaowool blanket usually. Get the insulation kit from the same place you order the liner from. It includes everything you'll need. Be sure to sweep clean the chimney thoroughly first!

Watch the liner installation video (lower right)  here:
http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/videos/
another supplier:
http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/chimney-liner-kit.php


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 9, 2013)

I don't see it at northern tool..

I want to buy the CW2900 tonight, as well as the liner and insulation.. Anyone have tips to where i can get all three together?


----------



## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

Try www.dynamitebuys.com and ask for Sean. But if that doesn't work out, order the stove and liner kit + insulation separately. No biggie. You may get better service and choices for the liner from a company that specializes in that product.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 9, 2013)

They don't have the 2900 available :/


----------



## raybonz (Oct 9, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> They don't have the 2900 available :/


Who doesn't have the 2900? Try emailing or calling to see when it is expected in.. I agree with BG get the stove and liner from 2 places.. I assume you have a large enough chimney to fit an insulated liner... 

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 9, 2013)

Yea, the only area is by the flue, where we'll have to drill out some space.

I'm trying to find the best deal on the liner and insert now.

I thought i only had a 15' chimney but i need to check.


----------



## begreen (Oct 9, 2013)

For sure measure twice before ordering either the stove or the liner. Check the flue tile dimensions as well as the overall height and remember that it is better to be a few feet over in liner length than one inch short.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 10, 2013)

Quick update – My family (Brother who’s a liscensed contractor, myself, and my father) will be doing the install since my very unprofessional chimney sweep has backed out of this project.

Here’s the breakdown so far:

Century CW2900:  $1213.50 shipped
Top Heat Sheild - $110 Shipped (Gives me a minimum clearance of 10” to any combustible materials – Help my TV issue)
Stainless Steel Chimney Liner - $210 shipped
Insulation Kit - $170 shipped
*Project Total to date: $1703.50.*

3 Cords of dry “Seasoned” (to be tested) Wood to be delivered in 1 week - $ 350

I plan on stacking on free skids my work throws out (Dry – No Rot) and I plan to cover them with some extra durable tarps from Harbor Freight)

Maul/Splitting Equipment, fireplace tools, and interior wood rack to be purchased within next 2 weeks.

Block off Plate and Flue to be modified in 2 weeks install date.

Basic Goal for Entire first season including wood, all costs, and labor - $2500!
I will make sure to take pictures to keep you all in the loop!  I couldn’t do it without all the help you guys have provided!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 10, 2013)

Question.. I'm about to order the liner..

Should i go with a 1 or 2 ply liner?

Here's my chimney layout:


----------



## raybonz (Oct 10, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Quick update – My family (Brother who’s a liscensed contractor, myself, and my father) will be doing the install since my very unprofessional chimney sweep has backed out of this project.
> 
> Here’s the breakdown so far:
> 
> ...


I love it when a plan comes together! Looking forward to the progress pics.. Gotta say firewood is much cheaper there than here!

Good luck!
Ray


----------



## timcab (Oct 10, 2013)

I would go with 2ply if you can swing it. Also where are you ordering the liner so cheap? Is it just because your 15ft?


----------



## begreen (Oct 10, 2013)

Price sounds too low for a good full liner kit. Don't scrimp here. This is infrastructure. Can you provide a link to this kit for a check?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 10, 2013)

timcab said:


> I would go with 2ply if you can swing it. Also where are you ordering the liner so cheap? Is it just because your 15ft?



The liner I originally priced out was a cheap one off eBay that I got down. 

After looking and talking with members, I got a really good 2ply Magnaflex (us made - Kentucky) with insulation for $400 shipped - down from $480. I talked to the customer service and can provide a name after I get his approval. Was referred to their quality and them throwing in 1/2" insulation kit was a great overall deal. 

As for wood, there is a hot sticks dealer about 10 miles away with kiln dried lumber at $160 a cord. (8-10% moisture levels)

Install scheduled for 23rd! Insert should shop tomorrow!  Excited for this process to get under way!!


----------



## begreen (Oct 10, 2013)

That is a very good deal. Does the liner kit include the stove connector, top plate and cap?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 11, 2013)

raybonz said:


> I love it when a plan comes together! Looking forward to the progress pics.. Gotta say firewood is much cheaper there than here!
> 
> Good luck!
> Ray





timcab said:


> I would go with 2ply if you can swing it. Also where are you ordering the liner so cheap? Is it just because your 15ft?





begreen said:


> Price sounds too low for a good full liner kit. Don't scrimp here. This is infrastructure. Can you provide a link to this kit for a check?



Well, liner is now insulated and everything should be here next week! Thanks to Magnaflex for an amazing deal. I ended up picking up a Magnaflex 6”x20’ lnsulflex Liner kit with cap, adapter, and top liner mount for a great price. Customer service is top notch, highly recommend, and you can’t get a better product for the price.

Can’t wait to take pictures of everything when it’s in to share, even post install.

Whats left:
Purchasing/Stacking the cords of wood to be delivered

Mauls, Splitteres, Rack supplied for inside
Top heatshield for unit (Ordering this weekend)


----------



## Woody Stover (Oct 11, 2013)

Good deal; Those cheap liners scare me a little. I couldn't get the liner link on their site to work, but I like Kentucky....


----------



## dafattkidd (Oct 11, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> The liner I originally priced out was a cheap one off eBay that I got down.
> 
> After looking and talking with members, I got a really good 2ply Magnaflex (us made - Kentucky) with insulation for $400 shipped - down from $480. I talked to the customer service and can provide a name after I get his approval. Was referred to their quality and them throwing in 1/2" insulation kit was a great overall deal.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're on your way. $160/cord for kiln dried is a steal. Make sure its a true 4'x4'x8' cord. Some dealers use sketchy tape measures and oddball estimates on the amounts of wood purchased. Good luck!


----------



## timcab (Oct 11, 2013)

Wow that sounds like a great price. I need to pick up a 25' kit. Can you provide a link and or name and number of who you spoke to. Their link online is not working for me


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 11, 2013)

Yeah, no kiddin, out with da infos! I was just about to pull the trigger on a 6"x 20' 2 ply Flex King Pro (w/ insulation kit) from Chimney liner Depot for $600


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 13, 2013)

Thanks guys, if interested I can give you information via conversations! Just want to keep his email private. He's been around the forums so many members who he is! 

Stand up guy and great deals!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 21, 2013)

A quick update..

Stove is here and liner is en-route for delivery! 
Stove install scheduled for Wednesday! 

2 Cords to be delivered hopefully by Tomorrow! (will check moisture levels)


----------



## raybonz (Oct 21, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> A quick update..
> 
> Stove is here and liner is en-route for delivery!
> Stove install scheduled for Wednesday!
> ...


Right on Jeff aren't you glad you found all these wood burning guru's? Looking forward to all the pics! 

Ray


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 21, 2013)

Make sure they install a block off plate at the damper area.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 22, 2013)

raybonz said:


> Right on Jeff aren't you glad you found all these wood burning guru's? Looking forward to all the pics!
> 
> Ray



Thanks Ray!



Hogwildz said:


> Make sure they install a block off plate at the damper area.



We plan on it! I have 1 cord of Seasoned Cherry and Oak (Family - 2 years Aged, will check moisture levels tonight – Thanks to my father)

Anyone's thoughts on this? Should i worry?
http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/grd/4120760588.html
No pictures but this was our email convo:



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Hi Joe,
> 
> I’m interested.. Do you know the moisture content? I want to make sure that the wood is ready to burn at a good efficiency. (20% or lower)
> 
> ...





			
				Joe said:
			
		

> I have no idea what the moisture content is but I can tell you the wood has been split and covered for a year. I've sold close to forty cords this year and have no plans on putting any signs up like I have in the past. I just have to many repeat customers.
> Interested 533-xxxx is my number..
> 
> Thanks...
> Joe


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 22, 2013)

On the CL wood, my experience with oak has been that it is still too wet after 1 year...makes heating with wood a real PITA! YMMV


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 22, 2013)

Oak may be tough burning if only seasoned a year


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 22, 2013)

That Oak will be no where near ready to burn after one year. If it was mine, it would be sitting another 2 years.
The price ain't bad for your area, and may be worth seeing if he will give you a bulk rate. But give that stuff another couple years to truly dry out.
Otherwise you will never reap the benefits of it.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 22, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> That Oak will be no where near ready to burn after one year. If it was mine, it would be sitting another 2 years.
> The price ain't bad for your area, and may be worth seeing if he will give you a bulk rate. But give that stuff another couple years to truly dry out.
> Otherwise you will never reap the benefits of it.




I've got about a cord of seasoned cherry, maple, and oak from my parents. Most of it is split or small rounds. Been sitting for 2 years, a few pieces are punky but not bad. Tons of kindln. Looking at a few truck load seals tomorrow. Should put me around 3 cords of seasoned if all goes well. Pictures to come!


Need to pick up a splitting axe tomorrow... Any tips?


----------



## dafattkidd (Oct 22, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> I've got about a cord of seasoned cherry, maple, and oak from my parents. Most of it is split or small rounds. Been sitting for 2 years, a few pieces are punky but not bad. Tons of kindln. Looking at a few truck load seals tomorrow. Should put me around 3 cords of seasoned if all goes well. Pictures to come!
> 
> 
> Need to pick up a splitting axe tomorrow... Any tips?


 
I would get a six or eight pound maul with a fiberglass handle. These are the best to learn with.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

dafattkidd said:


> I would get a six or eight pound maul with a fiberglass handle. These are the best to learn with.



A buddy recommended a fiscars 36" splitting axe.. Thoughts?


----------



## Mrs. Krabappel (Oct 23, 2013)

I definitely prefer the splitting axe for general use and the maul for cranky rounds.


----------



## Hogwildz (Oct 23, 2013)

The Fiskars is a nice axe, I got one myself, and an 8 lb maul.
Honestly, and only my opinion, but the hype about the Fiskars, is mostly that.
They are good for straight grain splitting. But a maul will go through much more of anything else, again, just my opinion. I have used both.
Mauls are cheaper also as far as cost concerns. Might not be a bad idea for starting with.
I have both an electric and hydraulic splitters also. My shoulders & back ain't what they used to be.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> The Fiskars is a nice axe, I got one myself, and an 8 lb maul.
> Honestly, and only my opinion, but the hype about the Fiskars, is mostly that.
> They are good for straight grain splitting. But a maul will go through much more of anything else, again, just my opinion. I have used both.
> Mauls are cheaper also as far as cost concerns. Might not be a bad idea for starting with.
> I have both an electric and hydraulic splitters also. My shoulders & back ain't what they used to be.



I'm young and lift a lot so throwing a 8lb maul at some oak rounds sounds pretty fun. I'm sure after splitting a cords worth I could say otherwise, but I'll look for a cheap but durable maul today. I've got a driveway of oak & cherry rounds to split!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

Side note, stove is now in my garage! Install is Saturday morning at 8am!


----------



## dafattkidd (Oct 23, 2013)

A lot of members love the fiskars and use it regularly. I have also seen a few threads where guys have cut through their boots and needed stitches from the razor sharp edge. Maybe I sound like a wimp, but I'm happy to swing a maul and purposely avoid sharp axes. Again, that's just me.


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 23, 2013)

If you're splittin all day with only a maul, it'll WEAR YOU OUT! Get a maul and a Fiskars, save the maul for the crotchety pieces, that way at the end of the day, you'll still have enough energy to enjoy sitting in front of the fire with the lil lady instead of just taking a couple Advil and fallin asleep in front of the fire!


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 23, 2013)

brenndatomu said:


> If you're splittin all day with only a maul, it'll WEAR YOU OUT! Get a maul and a Fiskars, save the maul for the crotchety pieces, that way at the end of the day, you'll still have enough energy to enjoy sitting in front of the fire with the lil lady instead of just taking a couple Advil and fallin asleep in front of the fire!


I agree, I would also get 2 wedges if you have very large rounds that need to be split....


----------



## Ashful (Oct 23, 2013)

I split by hand all thru my childhood and into my 20's, and then for almost two years when I started heating with wood again in 2011.  I enjoyed it, but since I'm burning 6 cords per year and was trying to split two years' worth each year (trying to get ahead), I just couldn't keep up.  I split 14 cords in one year, from fall 2011 thru fall 2012.

In any case, my weapon of choice was a 8 lb. maul.  It has an axe handle, instead of a sledge handle, which makes a huge difference in left hand fatigue.  By axe handle, I mean it had the classic curvature (not straight), smaller oval cross-section, and the increased diameter at the end of the handle to keep your left hand on the butt.  It also had a zero-concavity head (neither concave or convex), and keeping it sharp made a big difference.

For comparison, I also have a 12 lb. maul, with the classic convex head and sledge handle.  I find this much more tiring to use, even though it's only 4 lb. heavier.  I thought it would be better for splitting difficult stuff, but it's not.  I suppose conservation of energy (K = 0.5*m*v^2) may be working in advantage of the smaller maul, with higher head speed, but I'm no physicist.  The heavy straight vs. curved and tapered handle of the smaller maul, really makes a difference in swinging true, and hand fatigue.

I keep a sledge and assortment of wedges (from my childhood) for the real big stuff.  Being able to repeatedly drive into the same spot with a wedge, helps where the maul fails.

I had to mostly give up hand splitting, because I am starting to have some shoulder problems.  Now I'm in my 40th year of life, but I had several shoulder injuries when I was younger, which seem to be coming back to haunt me.  I bought a splitter this summer, and now I'm resolved to only split by hand occasionally.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

That's great.. I was going to purschase a Fiskars x27? But decided to purchase a Ames maul, splitting axe, and wedge for $10 less total. I split about a cord of wood today and wasn't too fatigued. I'm young so I guess that helps.  


As for the stove, we are install Saturday morning. I just have to pickup a liner and get the damper seal material at HD. 

For wood, I've got 1 cords worth of cherry and oak, with moisture levels ranging from 12%-23%, which I will probably start burning after the weekend. I've also got a 1/4 cord worth of kindling from some dead branches in my oak tree out front. 

I plan on getting 2 more by the end of the weekend, which this seller is letting me moisture test first which will be great. 

On to some photos from today...


Pre-split old cherry and oak, with some punky rounds. (Moisture levels ranging from amazing low 10% to most at 16-24%)




Loading her up to stack under my back patio...




First stack after day 1... More photos to come!


----------



## raybonz (Oct 23, 2013)

You're cruising right along Jeff!  Keeps the pics and progress info coming!

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

In enjoying it, probably because I know I'm getting a better bang for the buck, have an excuse to wear a flannel shirt and swing an axe, all while listening to a little Hank Williams...  

And well, the wife getting turned on is just an added bonus.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

And for those who want to see the Century CW2900..




She's a beaut!


----------



## raybonz (Oct 23, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> And for those who want to see the Century CW2900..
> 
> View attachment 115529
> 
> ...


Man you're on a fast track there! Can you rotate your pics when you post them? My neck is starting to hurt lol.. 

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 23, 2013)

raybonz said:


> Man you're on a fast track there! Can you rotate your pics when you post them? My neck is starting to hurt lol..
> 
> Ray


I apologize.

I'm posting directly from my iPhone so it doesn't appear rotated until I upload. :/


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 23, 2013)

Turn the phone the other direction before taking the pics.


----------



## raybonz (Oct 23, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> I apologize.
> 
> I'm posting directly from my iPhone so it doesn't appear rotated until I upload. :/


What Bart said.. I did the same thing with my iPhone.. 

Ray


----------



## jharkin (Oct 23, 2013)

You are just cruising Jeff, nice work. Just remember if you struggle with the wood this year that its going to get better every year till you get in that 2/3 year seasoning groove.

As for the splitting, I'll give another plug for the Fiskars. I've got the old Super Splitter and and a heavy maul and I practically never touch the maul. Fiskars is so much lighter and easier to swing, the few things it won't crack I get out the wedges.


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 23, 2013)

Your gonna need to split those little rounds if you intend to burn them this year.....


----------



## Ashful (Oct 23, 2013)

Just to be sure you're measuring moisture correctly, since your numbers are surprisingly good, for freshly split wood (particularly the oak):

1.  Split wood, so you have a fresh face to test.
2.  Push probes fully into freshly-exposed face.

The orientation of the two probes on the freshly split face is sometimes listed as longitudinal (with grain), but it truly doesn't matter much, given the precision of these cheap meters.  What is critical is that you're measuring on a freshly exposed face, not end grain or an old face that's been exposed for some time.

Anything below 20% MC is ideal, but many of us squeak by mixing in stuff up to 25%.  Anything down near 10% is scary dry... read up on overfiring from burning KD lumber.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## cableman (Oct 24, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> I apologize.
> 
> I'm posting directly from my iPhone so it doesn't appear rotated until I upload. :/



Rotate the picture in your photos and save, then rotate it back and save. For some reason that makes it post correctly! 
Nice install too!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 24, 2013)

A lot of the wood has been sitting, as full rounds, while some was already split and stacked at his house for a “firepit” (Never done)

As for the small rounds, they aren’t very big, barely big enough to split.. I’m taking it that I should still split small size rounds?  They are around 16-17” long, no more than 3-4” thick.


----------



## Ashful (Oct 24, 2013)

I split everything bigger around than my wrist, but it's easier to do this with a splitter, than by hand.  For splitting small stuff by hand, bundle a whole bunch together using either a ratchet strap or an old car tire, and have at it.  YouTube will show you the way.

Even small rounds give up their moisture slowly, until you expose the innards.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 24, 2013)

Joful said:


> I split everything bigger around than my wrist, but it's easier to do this with a splitter, than by hand.  For splitting small stuff by hand, bundle a whole bunch together using either a ratchet strap or an old car tire, and have at it.  YouTube will show you the way.
> 
> Even small rounds give up their moisture slowly, until you expose the innards.


Thanks for the heads up. I have a lot of smaller rounds that I can split then. I will make sure to address those tonight! Thanks guys!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 25, 2013)

Another photo...

After my liner got re-routed countless times, I finally was able to pick it up last night. Big thanks to theheatelement for a great deal and amazing customer service!


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah I had some small (skinny) maple rounds that I figure I could use in my insert, I split one open to test it and I was stunned that it had a high MC, I'm talking wrist size too. So I plan to split them and use them next year...


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 25, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Yeah I had some small (skinny) maple rounds that I figure I could use in my insert, I split one open to test it and I was stunned that it had a high MC, I'm talking wrist size too. So I plan to split them and use them next year...



Anything bigger than my wrist i will split then tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up!

Install is tomorrow @ 9am! Pictures, maybe even some video of the first burn, to come!


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 25, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Anything bigger than my wrist i will split then tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> Install is tomorrow @ 9am! Pictures, maybe even some video of the first burn, to come!


can't wait to see it!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 25, 2013)

My stove can have an accessory for a top heat shield.. Why should i spend the $115 when i could make a high-temp heat shield from sheet metal?

Any tips? It makes the top clearance only 8" which may lead me to believe, a tv there could work still. (If i can keep constant airflow in that area - rigging up computer fan to push air under the tv)


----------



## Ashful (Oct 25, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> My stove can have an accessory for a top heat shield.. Why should i spend the $115 when i could make a high-temp heat shield from sheet metal?


Just don't confuse your interpretation of what's safe with the actual configuration tested.  If I interpret what you're saying correctly, your stove was tested for clearances with their heat shield installed.  You might think your home-grown shield is a reasonable facsimile of the shield with which the stove was tested for reduced clearances, but your insurance company might disagree.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 25, 2013)

Joful said:


> Just don't confuse your interpretation of what's safe with the actual configuration tested.  If I interpret what you're saying correctly, your stove was tested for clearances with their heat shield installed.  You might think your home-grown shield is a reasonable facsimile of the shield with which the stove was tested for reduced clearances, but your insurance company might disagree.




I'll double check clearances. I understand the insurance side of things as well


----------



## begreen (Oct 25, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> The Fiskars is a nice axe, I got one myself, and an 8 lb maul.
> Honestly, and only my opinion, but the hype about the Fiskars, is mostly that.
> They are good for straight grain splitting. But a maul will go through much more of anything else, again, just my opinion. I have used both.
> Mauls are cheaper also as far as cost concerns. Might not be a bad idea for starting with.
> I have both an electric and hydraulic splitters also. My shoulders & back ain't what they used to be.


My same experience. The Fiskars went through green madrona like butter, but the same wood dents the blade if the wood is seasoned. That's when the maul or the power splitter go to work.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 26, 2013)

A teaser for you guys!


----------



## Sons924 (Oct 26, 2013)

I've been waiting for the install pictures. Is that thing burning or what?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 26, 2013)

Sons924 said:


> I've been waiting for the install pictures. Is that thing burning or what?



She's burning! I put a quick load through her to mess with the air settings. Will post full post tomorrow! 

Thank you all! Stay tuned!


----------



## timcab (Oct 26, 2013)

Looks great. Can't wait for more pics. Am I just looking at it wrong or Is the appliance adapter upside down? Might just be the pic


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 26, 2013)

timcab said:


> Looks great. Can't wait for more pics. Am I just looking at it wrong or Is the appliance adapter upside down? Might just be the pic



It's connected correctly. We just opted for a clamp to help secure it since my liner kit didn't include one. (On the base around liner to connector)


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 26, 2013)

timcab said:


> Am I just looking at it wrong or Is the appliance adapter upside down?



Sure looks upside down to me.  All fittings go male end down towards the stove, female end up, to prevent creosote dripping out.  The appliance connector should have a band clamp to fasten around the liner.


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 26, 2013)

What's an appliance adapter? Thanks....


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 26, 2013)

It is upside down. The adapter fits inside the flue collar on the stove and the liner fits into the other end. And it looks like you crimped it to push it in the liner. Creating air leaks. Take that thing off and install it right.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 26, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> It is upside down. The adapter fits inside the flue collar on the stove and the liner fits into the other end. And it looks like you crimped it to push it in the liner. Creating air leaks. Take that thing off and install it right.


I will definitely do this. No directions on liner installation.


----------



## BrotherBart (Oct 26, 2013)

Sorry to be so direct. But that is scaring me. Too easy to do it safely and right. Drill the flue collar and put three stainless steel screws through it and the adapter, after you smooth those crimps out of it, and three screws through the top end and the liner inside of it.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 27, 2013)

Fixed the collar. Got her burning!
Follow up coming!


----------



## theheatelement (Oct 27, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Fixed the collar. Got her burning!
> Follow up coming!
> 
> View attachment 115905


Looks great


----------



## raybonz (Oct 27, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Fixed the collar. Got her burning!
> Follow up coming!
> 
> View attachment 115905


Looks great and for short money too!  Your investment will be paid back quickly 

Ray


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 27, 2013)

Dry firewood is everything. Trying to secure some more. This green/old punky wood is hit or miss. 

Bought a bag of hotsticks, holy difference.


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 27, 2013)

looks great man, get some good secondaries going after break ins and some more photos!


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 27, 2013)

Yea. I'll get some posted soon. I'm learning her right now but boy is she a nice stove. 

Just loaded her up for the night. Hoping for a long 4-5 hour burn!


----------



## RockyMtnHigh (Oct 28, 2013)

I always liked Century woodstoves. Good job Jeff!


----------



## Ashful (Oct 28, 2013)

What's the cubic footage on that stove, Jeff?  Should be able to do much more than 5 hours, by the looks of it.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 28, 2013)

Joful said:


> What's the cubic footage on that stove, Jeff?  Should be able to do much more than 5 hours, by the looks of it.



*Firebox Size W x D (in.)*21 1/4 x 16 3/4

No set cubic i can find, but i was reading 2.1-2.3?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 28, 2013)

2.1 Is the size


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 28, 2013)

At 2.1 in the shoulder season I don't see a problem getting 10 hours with good wood, a lot of variables though


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 28, 2013)

USMC80 said:


> At 2.1 in the shoulder season I don't see a problem getting 10 hours with good wood, a lot of variables though



I have no doubt, as this thing has a good size firebox for an insert, the only thing is I have somewhat OK wood to burn, nothing as seasoned as I would like, but I definitely say I could accomplish that feat. 
Right now I’m getting 5-6 with a bed of coals after. Some of the stuff I’m burning is great, while the rest I should probably season for a few more months. 

I'm also getting a hang of the stove, messing with the air controls and blower. She definitely is a great little stove!


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ya im still messing around with mine.  Definitely gonna take a year or so to get the hang of everything.  It's fun though


----------



## Ashful (Oct 28, 2013)

Cool!

I actually got some of my longest burns with poorly seasoned wood.  Not great heat... but very long burns.  I remember being real excited when I smouldered 26'ish hours out of one load, early in my first year.  That was, until it actually got cold out.


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 28, 2013)

Feels good to warm up by the fire, especially after saving all that money with a DIY install, huh?! Two thumbs up, looks good!!


----------



## lml999 (Oct 28, 2013)

mass_burner said:


> Is this absolutely true? I have such a setup, but with a full motion mount. Doesn't seem to be an issue.



Aside from the heat issue, the screen may be mounted too high for optimal viewing. You want the screen at approximately eye level for your primary viewing position. Sitting on a sofa, that means the screen should be 30" or so high. The OP's screen is better viewed standing up! 

And mounted on a non-brick wall, it might be easier to bury/hide the cabling.

I understand the issues with esthetics and wife acceptance factor... Just saying.


----------



## mass_burner (Oct 29, 2013)

lml999 said:


> Aside from the heat issue, the screen may be mounted too high for optimal viewing. You want the screen at approximately eye level for your primary viewing position. Sitting on a sofa, that means the screen should be 30" or so high. The OP's screen is better viewed standing up!
> 
> And mounted on a non-brick wall, it might be easier to bury/hide the cabling.
> 
> I understand the issues with esthetics and wife acceptance factor... Just saying.


 
We have electric in the attic and also a channel run for cables running 6 feet in the attic and then down behind a built in panel
where the floating AV shelves are. The cables emerge under the lowest shelf and run up to the various components. It also depends how far you are from the TV. Our sofa is about 10-12' away from the TV and it we don't even notice its not at eye level. It also makes it easier for people to see from other parts of the room.


----------



## etiger2007 (Oct 29, 2013)

Looks good Jeff , just curious what setting your running your blower on?  I have an Osburn by SBI who also makes Century .  They recommend you run your blower on medium when the stove it hot, it will pull the most heat from the stove without cooling the unit too much, some may think if you run it on high you'll get more heat but this is not true because the air being circulated around the stove doesn't have time to heat up completely .  I have been doing this thus far this year and my stove stays a lot hotter longer.   Good luck


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 31, 2013)

So guys, I’m at a stage where I need some input:

I’ve got 2 sellers that I’ve both moisture tested and the wood is truly seasoned.

Mixed Variety consisting primarily of oak, hickory, and some poplar. - $166 a cord delivered.
100% Locust, Hand thrown trailer, from a tree company, delivered. $180 – Moisture levels steady around 17% (+/-1) and perfect hydraulic cuts. (See pictures below)




	

		
			
		

		
	
(Post re-split to test moisture)

My thoughts are: Locust burns hot, long, and the splits look great, I saw them in person. Poplar is junk, low BTU, and knowing that something like that is thrown in kind of annoys me.  But the hand thrown trailer, even though it is huge, worries me about getting a full cord for $180.


Your Thoughts?


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 31, 2013)

etiger2007 said:


> Looks good Jeff , just curious what setting your running your blower on?  I have an Osburn by SBI who also makes Century .  They recommend you run your blower on medium when the stove it hot, it will pull the most heat from the stove without cooling the unit too much, some may think if you run it on high you'll get more heat but this is not true because the air being circulated around the stove doesn't have time to heat up completely .  I have been doing this thus far this year and my stove stays a lot hotter longer.   Good luck



I’m actually noticing the best heat push with the blower on low-med, after I let the stove heat up after a roaring fire for about 20 minutes, then I consider putting the blower on, but even then, it’s cooking me out of my downstairs.  With some good seasoned wood, this thing is amazing. It got down to 34 degrees the other night, and it we even had the windows open after my fiancé overcooked something (Typical) and the house was a warm 78 downstairs and upstairs 70. Perfect.  I can imagine being fine most of this winter with my small IR electric & some good seasoned wood, and the blower on medium. (MAX – you’re right about on High, unless you’ve been running her good for a solid 4-5 hours and keeping the wood flowing on the burns to keep her hot.)


----------



## USMC80 (Oct 31, 2013)

Wow!  You have run into two good suppliers which are hard to come by.  Take the locust and stack it out and make sure its a cord.  That's a great price for real seasoned hardwood


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 31, 2013)

Man, I think I'd get a load or two of each! Locust is not always easy to come by, (at least around here) I'd get all of it you can and squirrel it away for those cold January nights. Now the other supplier, that would be my day to day wood. Oak and Hickory are great, but I like Poplar too, it works great for those small "just to take the chill off" fires that you need in the spring and fall. The Oak, Hickory, and _definitely_ the Locust last too long, but the Poplar works well because you can burn a quick clean burning hot fire, but it doesn't last too long so it won't run ya outta the house. I'm burning mostly Poplar with a chunk of Oak thrown in the mix right now.


----------



## JeffStinson (Oct 31, 2013)

USMC80 said:


> Wow!  You have run into two good suppliers which are hard to come by.  Take the locust and stack it out and make sure its a cord.  That's a great price for real seasoned hardwood





brenndatomu said:


> Man, I think I'd get a load or two of each! Locust is not always easy to come by, (at least around here) I'd get all of it you can and squirrel it away for those cold January nights. Now the other supplier, that would be my day to day wood. Oak and Hickory are great, but I like Poplar too, it works great for those small "just to take the chill off" fires that you need in the spring and fall. The Oak, Hickory, and _definitely_ the Locust last too long, but the Poplar works well because you can burn a quick clean burning hot fire, but it doesn't last too long so it won't run ya outta the house. I'm burning mostly Poplar with a chunk of Oak thrown in the mix right now.



Yea, that’s been my main concern. Buying truly seasoned wood. I have about a half cord now, half way through its season cycle, so I plan on burning that post winter, or those cool march nights, if its truly seasoned by then (Doubtful).

A cord of locust and a cord of mixed would be ideal. Locust burns super hot, which I’m hoping to heat the entire house, with no oil on those cold winter nights, I think that’ll be key.  Just the amount of “thrown” wood is what scares me.


----------



## brenndatomu (Oct 31, 2013)

If I was buying wood, I'd come to an understanding with the supplier that once I stack this wood at home that he (she) will make up any shortage found. Most states have laws saying that wood must be sold by a specific volume, usually the cord (128 CF) or 4'x4'x8'. Selling wood by the "thrown trailer load" doesn't sound legal to me.


----------



## etiger2007 (Oct 31, 2013)

I'd be all over that locust , I got some and it's great,  stinks when you burn it but who cares.  Truly seasoned wood let alone locust  give me his number lol


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 31, 2013)

I forget the exact figure (you can search) on the equivalent cf for a cord of wood in a dump truck something like 180-190 cf. The point is once you get experienced with it, you can tell at a glance whether it's a full cord or not. I know the size of my guy's dump truck and I know the level it should be filled to.  Of course he gives me somewhere from 1.25 -1.5 cords per cord, so I've gotten a little spoiled on that.


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Oct 31, 2013)

If this is a great deal, why not pay them an extra 25 a cord to stack it just to make sure you get what you pay for.... Just another thought.....


----------



## Dave A. (Oct 31, 2013)

Apparently out in Altoona, wood prices are lower than closer to the coast (or maybe the problem's being closer to NY).


----------



## Holiday (Oct 31, 2013)

brenndatomu said:


> If I was buying wood, I'd come to an understanding with the supplier that once I stack this wood at home that he (she) will make up any shortage found.



That's what I'd do. At that price get a bunch and you're set.


----------



## JeffStinson (Nov 4, 2013)

Hey guys, got my wood yesterday.
I went with the oak, locust, and maple cord. 
True full cord, delivered and seasoned for $160.  
Moisture levels between 12%-17%, so i started burning it last night.

It was 21 degrees for a low last night, and the house never got below 70 degrees last night! 

Here's the shot before i re-split some larger rounds and smaller non-split rounds.



Here's my seasoned woodpile post splitting/re-stacking (7ft tall, 10 wide, 2 deep full, and a small 3foot high by 4 ft pile, and a pile of seasoned/semi-seasoned kindlin)


----------



## etiger2007 (Nov 4, 2013)

K


JeffStinson said:


> Hey guys, got my wood yesterday.
> I went with the oak, locust, and maple cord.
> True full cord, delivered and seasoned for $160.
> Moisture levels between 12%-17%, so i started burning it last night.
> ...


keep buying it while you can a dealer who has seasoned wood is hard to come by!


----------



## raybonz (Nov 4, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Hey guys, got my wood yesterday.
> I went with the oak, locust, and maple cord.
> True full cord, delivered and seasoned for $160.
> Moisture levels between 12%-17%, so i started burning it last night.
> ...


Looking good Jeff! Any dealer that delivers a full seasoned cord for that price is a rare gem! Be sure to be loyal as long as he continues delivering wood like that.. 

Ray


----------



## Ashful (Nov 4, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Hey guys, got my wood yesterday.
> I went with the oak, locust, and maple cord.
> True full cord, delivered and seasoned for $160.
> Moisture levels between 12%-17%, so i started burning it last night.
> ...


Awesome!  "I love it when a plan comes together."

I'll repeat what etiger said... buy all you can now.  By all accounts here, seasoned wood is hard (read, "almost impossible") to buy from a dealer!  You might as well start your rotating 3-year supply now, if you can figure out what your seasonal needs might be.  Most people average 3 - 4 cords per year, per stove... a daunting number for those running multiple stoves.


----------



## JeffStinson (Nov 4, 2013)

Will do. I plan on getting a trailer of 6 month old rounds for $80 from him. 

I came home today to a few coals about 11 hours later. Great burns are being discovered!

Enjoying her now with some Walking Dead!


----------



## Baker_Falcon (Nov 5, 2013)

Good thread, great read.  Good way to kill 20 minutes this evening at work.  Jeff, I am from Central PA too and what a lot of folks don't realize how spoiled we really are with great sources for good wood.  Nice install great work.  I have a pre EPA 1980s model Baker (York, PA) insert with a TV above it as well.  Did you put a heat shield or mantle between the stove and TV?  I can't see from the dark picture.  Looks like a nice stove and almost motivates me to upgrade to an EPA stove next year.  I am very partial to Harman because it was founded in my hometown and sold by people I know but DANG are they expensive.  Are you happy with your stove?


----------



## dafattkidd (Nov 6, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> Will do. I plan on getting a trailer of 6 month old rounds for $80 from him.
> 
> I came home today to a few coals about 11 hours later. Great burns are being discovered!
> 
> ...


 
Oh man, now you're speaking my language. Walking Dead on Sunday nights with beer and a blazing inferno in my Oz. Those are some of my favorite moments. Glad you're enjoying your new insert. Cheers!


----------



## JeffStinson (Nov 7, 2013)

Baker_Falcon said:


> Good thread, great read.  Good way to kill 20 minutes this evening at work.  Jeff, I am from Central PA too and what a lot of folks don't realize how spoiled we really are with great sources for good wood.  Nice install great work.  I have a pre EPA 1980s model Baker (York, PA) insert with a TV above it as well.  Did you put a heat shield or mantle between the stove and TV?  I can't see from the dark picture.  Looks like a nice stove and almost motivates me to upgrade to an EPA stove next year.  I am very partial to Harman because it was founded in my hometown and sold by people I know but DANG are they expensive.  Are you happy with your stove?



I’m very happy with my stove – granted, I plan on insulating around the stove inside the fireplace hearth, behind the front faceplate, as well as creating a new block-off plate that is better than the one we have now. 
All in all, this stove cooks us out of the upstairs.. It was cold the other night and I had to turn the ceiling fan on high upstairs because it was so darn hot!

Besides that, I can get 2 smaller, and 2 good sized logs in there, get the damper down near closed, and get 8 hour burn times. 

As for the heat shield, I didn’t get one.  My stove sticks out further than my TV and with this stove design, it doesn’t allow the heat to travel straight up with the heat shields that are already in place. It more a less radiates straight out and to the sides!


----------



## USMC80 (Nov 7, 2013)

dafattkidd said:


> Oh man, now you're speaking my language. Walking Dead on Sunday nights with beer and a blazing inferno in my Oz. Those are some of my favorite moments. Glad you're enjoying your new insert. Cheers!


That's pretty much my sunday nights


----------



## raybonz (Nov 7, 2013)

JeffStinson said:


> I’m very happy with my stove – granted, I plan on insulating around the stove inside the fireplace hearth, behind the front faceplate, as well as creating a new block-off plate that is better than the one we have now.
> All in all, this stove cooks us out of the upstairs.. It was cold the other night and I had to turn the ceiling fan on high upstairs because it was so darn hot!
> 
> Besides that, I can get 2 smaller, and 2 good sized logs in there, get the damper down near closed, and get 8 hour burn times.
> ...


Pretty amazed how you progressed from no stove and no wood to an installed insert and seasoned wood! This has to be the fastest I have ever seen this pulled off! Great work and you did it right too.. Keep us posted Jeff..

Ray


----------



## fireberd350 (Sep 7, 2014)

Jeff,

Great story, thanks for posting progress along the way. I live in SE PA and have a split level and am looking to put an insert in the same spot as you. This thread was very relevant for me  I'm curious how you made out last winter seeing as it was one of the coldest, worst winters I can recall. My brother in law put the smaller Century in his house last year and it has paid for itself almost in one winter, it works in impressive fashion and can't beat the price. I'm leaning towards the bigger model you chose for the longer burns.


----------



## JeffStinson (Sep 7, 2014)

fireberd350 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Great story, thanks for posting progress along the way. I live in SE PA and have a split level and am looking to put an insert in the same spot as you. This thread was very relevant for me  I'm curious how you made out last winter seeing as it was one of the coldest, worst winters I can recall. My brother in law put the smaller Century in his house last year and it has paid for itself almost in one winter, it works in impressive fashion and can't beat the price. I'm leaning towards the bigger model you chose for the longer burns.




I actually had a great season with it. I have also since added a new 14 seer heat pump unit to the home, so I will be using both the insert and efficient heat-pump to help maintain a better temperature.

As for last season, i burned 2 seasoned cords, and 1 and 1/2 of semi-seasoned cord wood, with ZERO oil burned.

Did i have some cold moments, certainly, but if you consider i spent about $600 on wood and only 1600 on the stove & liner/accessories, plus the $300 tax credit i got back, i would say it was wise investment to now supplement with my efficient heat pump! 

As for the heating, if i got the stove going, it would definitely keep us toasty.

On the cold nights I would get up around 3am and load her back up, and it was still mid-70's in our house when i woke up.

Coldest night was around zero-4 degrees with the windchill, and even with a bead of coals in the am, the house never got below 55 degrees.
I would say that the stove definitely kept us warm - I did have to put our bedroom ceiling fan on to keep us from sweating too! lol


----------

