# Trouble shooting a JD 212 lawn tractor.



## smokinj (Jun 3, 2013)

This is a friends tractor it run sweet for 20 mins then the only way it will run is with the choke on?


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## gzecc (Jun 3, 2013)

The carb need cleaning (probably). Get to the front of the carburetor, disconnect hoses, screws etc...and spray carb cleaning stuff in all the openings. I think I did this without removing the carb once. Do it a couple of times. Also add some seafoam to the gas tank and let it sit over night after running it. Could have something in the fuel line. Blow that back to the tank.

If you want more serious help from a very experienced crowd go to weekendfreedommachines website


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## tekguy (Jun 3, 2013)

last time my 110 (with 10hp kohler - almost identical to the 12hp) ran good cold and not hot, changing points and head gasket fixed it

I think i paid like $35 for head gasket, carb rebuild kit and new points -head gaskets according to manual are to be changed yearly


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## Sprinter (Jun 3, 2013)

gzecc said:


> The carb need cleaning (probably). Get to the front of the carburetor, disconnect hoses, screws etc...and spray carb cleaning stuff in all the openings. I think I did this without removing the carb once. Do it a couple of times. Also add some seafoam to the gas tank and let it sit over night after running it. Could have something in the fuel line. Blow that back to the tank.
> 
> If you want more serious help from a very experienced crowd go to weekendfreedommachines website


You can try this first, but it's most likely the jets in the carb are plugged up and you'll have to remove the jets and clean them out.  Usually the result of letting old gas sit in carb too long, which is common in seasonal use engines, but maybe just from debris like rust.


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## tekguy (Jun 3, 2013)

forgot, you can download the service manual here: (right click and save as)
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2379.pdf


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## smokinj (Jun 3, 2013)

tekguy said:


> forgot, you can download the service manual here: (right click and save as)
> http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2379.pdf[/quote]
> 
> I think your dead on with the head gasket


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## tekguy (Jun 3, 2013)

you might fid something like this






it would still start!


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## bogydave (Jun 3, 2013)

Another  thing to check,

Fuel pump gets warm, not pumping ?


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## smokinj (Jun 3, 2013)

tekguy said:


> you might fid something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I would just about bet on it.  Oh he is...lol I will let you know but he wants to replace either way..... 
Do you have a link for a jd service manual la 135??????


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## MasterMech (Jun 4, 2013)

+1 on replacing the points and condenser on that old Kohler if nobody can remember the last time it was done.  Gap is .020 on those IIRC? Also worth throwing a neon spark tester on it of the points are not the issue.  Could be a marginal coil getting weaker as it heats up.

Carburetor issues tend to improve as the engine reaches full temp rather than get worse. If you're 100% the ignition is ok, check the fuel lines, FILTER, and the pump.  Don't forget to check the cap!

With the symptoms described, after checking out the easy stuff, I would go straight to a cylinder leak-down test.  Could be time for a rebuild.


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## pyroholic (Jun 4, 2013)

My dad's la170 was just doing that.  It was a clogged breather hole in the gas cap.  It would slowly build vacuum in the tank over about 2O min then stall when the fuel pump could no longer overcome the vacuum.  Crack the cap, or wait a while and good for another 2O.  No more problems after clearing clog.  The choke helped too when it was acting up.  Choking it was bringing the fuel/air ratio back to normal (or at least close) as the air was restricted to match the restricted fuel.


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## Jack Straw (Jun 4, 2013)

Check the gas cap!


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## smokinj (Jun 4, 2013)

Every thing thats been mention is already new or on its way. This is one really good example of a 212. New gas cap came in yesterday. It no longer showed how much gas was in it so thats was the reason it got replaced(But not the issue). Head gasket, points are on the way. Coil check by dealer but a new one is still on the way. This is more of a rehurb so if you can think of anything else feel free! Even the knobs and gauges are new. Makes me want one!


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## tekguy (Jun 4, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Every thing thats been mention is already new or on its way. This is one really good example of a 212. New gas cap came in yesterday. It no longer showed how much gas was in it so thats was the reason it got replaced(But not the issue). Head gasket, points are on the way. Coil check by dealer but a new one is still on the way. This is more of a rehurb so if you can think of anything else feel free! Even the knobs and gauges are new. Makes me want one!


i dont have a link to the la135 manual, hell they want like $80 for it 

i wouldnt mind a 140 or a 314 myself (a 318 would be awesome but those are $$ or any of the 400's)


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## Jags (Jun 4, 2013)

I didn't see it in the list.  You gonna do a carb rebuild on that?  The kits are pretty cheap.


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## smokinj (Jun 4, 2013)

Jags said:


> I didn't see it in the list. You gonna do a carb rebuild on that? The kits are pretty cheap.


 


When he bought it the guy says it was rebuilt. By the looks of the bolts and screws I would say he telling the truth.


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## Jags (Jun 4, 2013)

It may be true, but I would still pull the carb down.  I think that is your running issue.


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## smokinj (Jun 4, 2013)

Jags said:


> It may be true, but I would still pull the carb down. I think that is your running issue.


 


See what happens with the other parts first. If that dont handle it that will be next.


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## Jags (Jun 4, 2013)

smokinj said:


> See what happens with the other parts first. If that dont handle it that will be next.


 
Well, from your first description...After 20 minutes you have to pull out the choke and then it runs relatively normal... that ain't spark...thats fuel.  But it sounds like the dude is doing a full resto - so it probably ain't a big deal.  He will get to it eventually.


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## smokinj (Jun 4, 2013)

Jags said:


> Well, from your first description...After 20 minutes you have to pull out the choke and then it runs relatively normal... that ain't spark...thats fuel. But it sounds like the dude is doing a full resto - so it probably ain't a big deal. He will get to it eventually.


 

Does not run normal kind of spits and sputters. Runs perfect though even while mowing and that 20 min mark just turns into a puck machine.


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## Jags (Jun 4, 2013)

Well,  could be spark then.


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## smokinj (Jun 4, 2013)

Jags said:


> Well, could be spark then.


 


Got a feeling it will look something like post 7.


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## MasterMech (Jun 4, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Makes me want one!


 
Old 200 Series GT's are beasts.  That transmission is bombproof. And y'all already know how I feel about K-Series Kohlers. 



smokinj said:


> Got a feeling it will look something like post 7.


 
Head gaskets that are blown that bad will be quite obvious while cranking or right when the engine starts up.  If you can hear it "whiffing" then you know.  Also that will affect it warm, hot, or cold so I think you're ok there.  Check that head for true if you do pull it off.  Also check for lateral play in the piston by pushing it around a bit.  If it moves visibly, then it's worn, but these engines can tolerate a LOT of imperfection. 

Running issues like you describe that are 20 mins in are usually vacu-locked fuel systems (bad cap) or compression issues. (worn rings, leaking valves etc.)


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## Jags (Jun 5, 2013)

I have also seen where valves heat and start to stick, but admittedly not on the K series Kohlers.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 5, 2013)

My Cub has an 18hp Kohler that liked to have the choke on all the time. I recently blew out the fuel line, lubed the choke cable, and a couple other things, which fixed it. I think there was something sucked into the end of the fuel line where it meets the tank that caused a restriction- blew it out by mouth.


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## MasterMech (Jun 5, 2013)

Jags said:


> I have also seen where valves heat and start to stick, but admittedly not on the K series Kohlers.


I think Briggs trademarked that one.


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## Jags (Jun 5, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I think Briggs trademarked that one.


 
Huh - thats odd.  Most briggs are usually so sloppy I couldn't imagine anything sticking.

(Full disclosure - I run an 8hp briggs on my splitter and it performs flawlessly).


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## Ashful (Jun 5, 2013)

Jags said:


> I have also seen where valves heat and start to stick, but admittedly not on the K series Kohlers.


 

I had a 1965 K301 on a Cub 123 that needed a valve job. Exhaust valve would stick open when hot, due to carbon build-up on the valve stem. You could actually hear it plink back closed when the engine would cool off. Valve job was pretty easy, requiring the purchase of only one hand reamer (for the new guides) and a drive tool for my air hammer.


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## MasterMech (Jun 5, 2013)

Jags said:


> Huh - thats odd. Most briggs are usually so sloppy I couldn't imagine anything sticking.
> 
> (Full disclosure - I run an 8hp briggs on my splitter and it performs flawlessly).


 
Sure is fun to poke at 'em a little tho.


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

Ok head gasket came back "LIKE NEW" Head in the parts washer and will check to make sure its flat and reinstall (Head was very easy to come off) . Points and condenser on the way what else?


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## Jags (Jun 6, 2013)

Coil.  I have also seen where when cold, the coil will work just fine, but as they heat up, an internal "open" will happen.  I have personally had this happen twice over the years.


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

Jags said:


> Coil. I have also seen where when cold, the coil will work just fine, but as they heat up, an internal "open" will happen. I have personally had this happen twice over the years.


 
Yep: debating that as I type.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

Think you can still buy those coils at NAPA.  Seriously.


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Think you can still buy those coils at NAPA.  Seriously.


 


Dealership 30.00 bucks. Been going there everyday for about two weeks. They have a seat with my name on it and everyone yells Norm when I walk in!


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

Head drop off at the machine shop.


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## tekguy (Jun 6, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Head drop off at the machine shop.


was it warped?

i would get the old ohm meter out and test the stator, coil, etc... hot and cold
dont remember if the resistance specs are in the service manual or not but if you find a large variance then good chance there's an issue


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

tekguy said:


> was it warped?
> 
> i would get the old ohm meter out and test the stator, coil, etc... hot and cold
> dont remember if the resistance specs are in the service manual or not but if you find a large variance then good chance there's an issue


 
Guy at the machine shop owes me a favor(Freebee) . Since its already there its best to completely rule out the it out before putting it back together. I will know the answer to the question latter this afternoon.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Guy at the machine shop owes me a favor. Since its already there its best to completely rule out the it out before putting it back together. I will know the answer to the question latter this afternoon.


Hah.  That's probably a 10 minute job for him.


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## smokinj (Jun 6, 2013)

Heads back and very clean.......He didn't have to do much.


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## smokinj (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok heads back on. Still the kind of the same but it will now run perfect with choke on after 20 mins?


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## Jags (Jun 7, 2013)

Carb


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## smokinj (Jun 7, 2013)

Jags said:


> Carb


 
Points, condenser, coil and carb kit still waiting for shipment....That should be everything. Love to have it. He will not give me a price!


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## MasterMech (Jun 7, 2013)

smokinj said:


> He will not give me a price!


So give HIM one.


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## smokinj (Jun 7, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> So give HIM one.


 
I have been shooting but he keeps moving the target....Now that really doent stop me. He only mowing 20,000 sqft with it. Its got the snow plow weights chains and belly deck. (And there not another one I can find in the state)


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## tekguy (Jun 7, 2013)

around here in working order not restored that would be a 5-700 machine depending on attachments, 100-400 needing work
800-1K restored and looking pretty


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## smokinj (Jun 7, 2013)

tekguy said:


> around here in working order not restored that would be a 5-700 machine depending on attachments, 100-400 needing work
> 800-1K restored and looking pretty


 
About the same here and depending on the resto.....Jd are still the most expensive.


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## smokinj (Jun 17, 2013)

Everything has been replaced and running really good!


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