# Vermont wood burner claims solar kiln will dry wood in...



## Stax (Nov 24, 2013)

One month.  Check the link.  

http://www.grit.com/animals/solar-wood-drying-kiln.aspx#axzz2lUvXq6T6

Lets here it.


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## Applesister (Nov 24, 2013)

So what do you think Stax?
Looks like an operation that could consume alot of wood. Looks like they milled their own wood and have lots of outbuildings. 
The only thing that discourages me from the experiment is that my greenhouses in the summer become full of bees. 
Yellowjackets, hornets and carpenter bees. Ive thought it thru. Being in a confined space with angry bees is my worse nightmare.


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 24, 2013)

I think it's an interesting idea.  It would be great if the claims of dryness were supported with scientific method.  It would be great to take preliminary measurements with a moisture meter of two similar size loads of wood. One in the solar kiln and a control group in either the wood shed or just stacked outside.  Then at various time intervals using a MM to make tests from each group.  

My hypothesis would be that there would be slightly faster drying in the solar kiln due to the heat produced, however this may be dampened by less wind.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 24, 2013)

The kiln design looks reasonable, but neither the the original article nor the followup makes any mention of their having checked the MC using any objective method at all.  That, plus the facts that they go through 9-12 cords a year and normally only season wood for 9-12 months make me suspect their standards for what constitutes "dry" are substantially lower than what is typically espoused here.


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 24, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> The kiln design looks reasonable, but neither the the original article nor the followup makes any mention of their having checked the MC using any objective method at all.  That, plus the facts that they go through 9-12 cords a year and normally only season wood for 9-12 months make me suspect their standards for what constitutes "dry" are substantially lower than what is typically espoused here.



yep.


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## Brewmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

Say it does get wood down to <20%MC in a month, which I seriously doubt. Then what? You cycle pallets in and out every month? Now you've built this expensive (unless lumber is free for you) dryer AND you're committed to palletizing all your wood AND you've got to keep it dry somewhere else till you're ready to use it AND you're screwing around with it every month. 
I can't believe it could be the least bit cost effective. I would suggest spending that labor (less, probably) cutting more wood. Then you can just let it dry for two years without ever touching it till you're ready to burn it. If these people are accustomed to burning nine-month old wood in EPA stoves, they'll be amazed how much better older wood will burn without having to go through all this foolishness.


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## JP11 (Nov 24, 2013)

I already pallet all mine.  But getting a couple years ahead is pretty easy, cheap, and fool proof.

JP


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 24, 2013)

There is always someone trying to short cut the drying process and I fail to understand it. Drying wood is so simple if you just work with Mother Nature and don't wait until the last minute to cut the wood. Usually those trying to short-cut the process are those who tend to put things off so they need help. Better to get ahead. We look at the wood stacks about the same as putting money aside. We put away a few dollars every now and then and it is a good practice. We cut a little wood every year and also find that to be a good practice.


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## rideau (Nov 24, 2013)

Not that I plan to build a solar kiln, but I don't see the fuss about all this moving of wood.  If they load three pallets, each close to half a cord, and if those do dry in a month, and if they burn a cord a month, then all they have to do is load a new pallet as they finish each pallet.  The new one will be ready when thy are ready to burn it...especially if it has been aging naturally outside the kiln for a while.  If it really does dry the wood in a month, it could be an easy system that was useful for many.  And could come in very handy during any period when one fell behind because of illness or other issues.


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## JP11 (Nov 24, 2013)

3.3 pallets per cord how I build em.  I've got a 35HP tractor with the bigger loader and I can't lift one full of green oak more than a few inches.

I guess if you were an experimenting kind of guy.. a kiln would be neat.  way cheaper to just build a few dozen pallets for your wood and get ahead and stay ahead.

JP


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## albert1029 (Nov 24, 2013)

definitely something for future consideration...


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## paul bunion (Nov 24, 2013)

That Blog defines 'I saw it on the Internet so I know that it is true'.


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## rideau (Nov 25, 2013)

Note most of us used conditionals, such as" If it does work." ..always open to ideas that have some possibility of success.....though definitely taken with a grain or two of salt as it comes rom one who burns 9 to 12 cords a winter versus my three max....


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## Craig S. (Nov 25, 2013)

My wife would love it if I built that right next to our pool in the backyard.


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## Augie (Nov 25, 2013)

Simple solar kiln using cheap clear sheeting has gotten me from new burner with no wood to 5cords ready to burn in one year. During the spring summer and fall it took about 90days to go from wet to 20%mc. I mentioned this last spring, gave my results in the fall in a few threads and like many in this thread I was questioned for my honesty. It works, really well. I tent up a cord or two at a time, the move the sheeting in 90 days. I will never have to have more than 1-2 years worth of wood on my lot moving forward.

The naysayers in this thread are just old and cranky, I imagine many of you here in your yard with a clenched fist raised in the air waving it about shouting "Damn kids get off my lawn"


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## Lumber-Jack (Nov 25, 2013)

Augie said:


> Simple solar kiln using cheap clear sheeting has gotten me from new burner with no wood to 5cords ready to burn in one year. During the spring summer and fall it took about 90days to go from wet to 20%mc. I mentioned this last spring, gave my results in the fall in a few threads and like many in this thread I was questioned for my honesty. It works, really well. I tent up a cord or two at a time, the move the sheeting in 90 days. I will never have to have more than 1-2 years worth of wood on my lot moving forward.
> 
> The naysayers in this thread are just old and cranky, I imagine many of you here in your yard with a clenched fist raised in the air waving it about shouting "Damn kids get off my lawn"


Do you have a link to your thread Augie?


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## oldspark (Nov 25, 2013)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Do you have a link to your thread Augie?


 
This is one of them.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-kilns.114012/


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## oldspark (Nov 25, 2013)

I guess I dont understand the questioning of it, not sure on the time frame but more heat and air circulation is going to speed up the process. All you have to do is read several articles (too many for me) about drying of lumber or firewood and it makes it hard to dispute the results.
I like BWS dont have a need for such a thing but I keep an open mind for such projects.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Do you have a link to your thread Augie?



You can just Google "site:hearth.com augie solar kiln" and get a bunch of hits.

Augie, it looks like your initial experiment took some oak from 52% to 18%.  Given that electronic meters are extremely inaccurate above 28% or so, how did you establish the 52% starting point?


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## McKeznak (Nov 25, 2013)

Burning 12 months out of the year? The Kingdom is cold, but its not exactly at our planets poles.


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## oldspark (Nov 25, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> You can just Google "site:hearth.com augie solar kiln" and get a bunch of hits.
> 
> Augie, it looks like your initial experiment took some oak from 52% to 18%.  Given that electronic meters are extremely inaccurate above 28% or so, how did you establish the 52% starting point?


 
They are not that inaccurate, you guys are a bunch of nay sayers.
And I posted the link.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 25, 2013)

oldspark said:


> They are not that inaccurate



Up at that MC level they are absolutely "that" inaccurate. When wood is above the fiber saturation point (around 28%), there is liquid water present and the resistance is so low as to be difficult to measure, while the normal errors due to factors like species and temperature and other vagaries of the particular chunk  of wood you're dealing with become overwhelming.  The most a meter can tell you about wet wood is that split A is probably wetter than split B, assuming they're the same species and at the same temperature.  The particular numbers it might spit out are not remotely reliable.

I don't see anyone claiming that a solar kiln doesn't speed drying, but the time frame you're not sure about is the whole ball game.


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## oldspark (Nov 25, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Up at that MC level they are absolutely "that" inaccurate. When wood is above the fiber saturation point (around 28%), there is liquid water present and the resistance is so low as to be difficult to measure, while the normal errors due to factors like species and temperature and other vagaries of the particular chunk  of wood you're dealing with become overwhelming.  The most a meter can tell you about wet wood is that split A is probably wetter than split B, assuming they're the same species and at the same temperature.  The particular numbers it might spit out are not remotely reliable.
> 
> I don't see anyone claiming that a solar kiln doesn't speed drying, but the time frame you're not sure about is the whole ball game.


 
By not that inaccrate I mean they work well enough for fire wood with the numbes I get, I have a good idea of what the percentage should be on a fresh cut piece of green wood or one that has set a summer or a year or 2 years plus the different types of wood, plus checking 2 X 4's or other pieces of lumber and more then good enough for out uses. Many have reported the same when comparing there cheap one to a very expensive one used for cabinet making.
So why is one month questioned, I have no idea how quickly the moisture comes  out in a kiln but I bet I can give you a idea from a site that drys wood for lumber, can not quote you the figures but temp, humidity and air movement can be used to come up with a time frame. No black magic in drying wood, all you are doing is removing moisture.


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## Augie (Nov 25, 2013)

I am positive about the time frame, 90days in a sunny spot from April 1st to October 1st. That gives you enough time to run 2 lots of wood through your kiln. I burn 2.5-3 cord per year. I kiln 1.5 cord at a time in a 2deep row about 32inches deep by 4ft high by 20ft longish. To test MC I use nail driven into fresh splits and use some ohm meter to test resistance and then compare to a USFS chart broken down to species. I'm telling you it works and telling you it may cost you $20 to do it your self if you don't have the plastic laying around, if you have the plastic it is free. Regardless fresh cut live wood will be ready to burn when placed in a solar kiln after 90 days. The maximum split that I have used is 8inches across.


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 25, 2013)

Augie,

Thanks for the info.  Note that the original article from this thread claimed 1 month!  It sounds like you're getting those results in 90 days.  What species have you used?

And we're not all OLD here 

I say if it works do it!

My only problem is to get enough sun to make something like this worth while I'd have to stack my wood in the FRONT yard ha!


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## maple1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> There is always someone trying to short cut the drying process and I fail to understand it. Drying wood is so simple if you just work with Mother Nature and don't wait until the last minute to cut the wood. Usually those trying to short-cut the process are those who tend to put things off so they need help. Better to get ahead. We look at the wood stacks about the same as putting money aside. We put away a few dollars every now and then and it is a good practice. We cut a little wood every year and also find that to be a good practice.


 
I suspect not everyone has the room to store three or four years worth of wood.


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## oldspark (Nov 25, 2013)

maple1 said:


> I suspect not everyone has the room to store three or four years worth of wood.


 
No thats for sure, so any information on a  process that can help people who want to burn wood but are short of storage space or have to buy wood (good luck with getting dry wood) or are starting from scratch is useful IMHO.


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## Brewmonster (Nov 25, 2013)

Good for you, Augie, if you can get results like that and spend just $20. I, too, have tried to use poly sheeting to speed drying with less spectacular results. 

I stand by my observation, though, that the arrangement in the original post looked like it would require a lot of money and labor. How much would that lumber cost if you had to buy it retail? Even if the materials were free and I had plenty of pallets and a forklift lying around, I still wouldn't do it. Much easier to get a couple years ahead on your wood gathering. Once you've got that cushion, all you need to do is cut as much as you burn every year and you're gold.

But you're right, I am old and cranky, so Get off my lawn!!


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## Lumber-Jack (Nov 25, 2013)

For someone just starting out, who only has access to green hardwoods like oak, it might be well worth investing in to get them heating their house as soon as possible. Probably be more cost effective than heating the house with oil for a couple of winters while they are waiting for their wood to dry naturally.


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## tsquini (Nov 25, 2013)

I have seen these before. Typically mills use them to dry boards.


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks tsquini.... I think.the technology logically works but doubt 1 month is enough for Oak


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## Stax (Nov 25, 2013)

And the discussion turns...


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## oldspark (Nov 26, 2013)

It would be a fun expeirment, I agree with Augie, no need to spend a lot of money on the kiln.


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## AmarilloSlim (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm planning on installing a wood heat source before next burning season. I have been gathering wood and most should dry nicely over our hot, dry, & windy summer/s. The only problem I have foreseen is my lack of space to get 3+ years eahead. With 1200" sq. Backyard. Plans for a storage shed, entertaining area, vegetable garden, flowerbed, and grass. I become very limited. Hints my interest in a solar kiln. If I could adequately dry my oak and locust in one summer via solar kiln. That would place me further ahead of the game. Not to mention the drastic space savings I could reap.


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## AmarilloSlim (Nov 26, 2013)

paul bunion said:


> That Blog defines 'I saw it on the Internet so I know that it is true'.


 http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,70021.20.html    check reply #25 for "overnight"  dry firewood.  Must be true eh.?


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## oldspark (Nov 26, 2013)

AmarilloSlim said:


> http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,70021.20.html    check reply #25 for "overnight"  dry firewood.  Must be true eh.?


 
Well he is using only Ash and Cherry, two woods that dry fast, I dont know how fast it will dry but he does know it takes heat and air movement plus a place for the moisture to go, way more then some on here know.


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## paul bunion (Nov 26, 2013)

Augie said:


> I am positive about the time frame, 90days in a sunny spot from April 1st to October 1st. That gives you enough time to run 2 lots of wood through your kiln. I burn 2.5-3 cord per year. I kiln 1.5 cord at a time in a 2deep row about 32inches deep by 4ft high by 20ft longish. To test MC I use nail driven into fresh splits and use some ohm meter to test resistance and then compare to a USFS chart broken down to species. I'm telling you it works and telling you it may cost you $20 to do it your self if you don't have the plastic laying around, if you have the plastic it is free. Regardless fresh cut live wood will be ready to burn when placed in a solar kiln after 90 days. The maximum split that I have used is 8inches across.


Augie,

Have you ever put a thermometer in your kiln and monitored how much temperature gain there was?   I think that would really interesting to know.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 26, 2013)

Lotta things do a lotta things. When I went to move this season's stacks into the shed in May like I always do I was bummed to find that for the first time ever two stacks had leaned together and the ground moisture presented me with three year old oak that was wet. Much longer and it would have been rotting. As I was having the roof replaced the next month with one with ridge vents, I took the solar powered gable attic fan from the attic and installed it in the entrance to the woodshed with the solar panel on top of the black rubber roof, aimed south. 

Stuff is bone dry now after the summer air bath and still blows the colder weather low humidity air into the shed on sunny days.


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## Augie (Nov 27, 2013)

I have seen temps in excess of 130 on a sunny day with the ambient temps in the 70's. Think about your car in the summer. It is sunny here in Michigan and the temps are in the low thirties today. But even with the low temps I just stuck a thermometer in the kiln and saw temps in the high eighties and climbing, and remember that is dry winter air heated to the 80's lowering the humidity even more. Not bad for helping dry some wood in the winter. Winter kiln drying may take 6 months but even with that I should now be able to get 4.5-5.5 cords per year dried  ready to burn.
So if you have a suburban lot, are a new burner, have for one reason or another reduced your supply of seasoned wood, you should be able to season enough wood in one summer to have a adequate supply.

I have had delivered some wood by my wood guy recently that is waiting to be CSS. I have some extra sheeting that I haven't used, I may put together a tutorial, with pictures for those who struggle with the words, .

Until then know that building a cheap solar kiln to speed the drying of your wood works and is easy. You don't have to spend very much money, or spend much time, to make it work either.


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