# Modular Or Stick-Built



## Battenkiller (Sep 20, 2011)

We've been looking at overpriced, distressed existing homes for the last two weeks and are pretty distressed at this point ourselves.  This evening we went out with a money man/realtor who has a 1.5 acre plot he is willing to develop and build on for us in the same price range we have been considering for used homes.  We just love the site - out of the way in the country, but just close enough to the nearest neighbors to hear their chainsaws running.

The realtor can put together a place for us using a site development contractor, and a modular home on his property for well shy of $200K.  

What are the pros and cons of each construction type?  The builder we would use actually makes the homes locally, so we would really feel good about helping to spur the local economy in these tough times.  Or course, using local carpenters would do the same thing, but it would take a much longer time and the realtor is hesitant to tie up his money and his time to act as a GC on a building project.  Also, I don't know if he can keep the price down that way.  I would really love to have my home built exactly the way I want, but there seems to be a lot of freedom in these modulars these days.  Construction quality is supposed to be right up there, at least that is what we are being told.

Opinions?


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## joefrompa (Sep 20, 2011)

Modular technology is impressive nowadays - and you can get a consistency that is hard to match with on-site builders using various subs.

But like anything: who is doing the building. A modular can be screwed up too. 

You should still have 90% of the options - some of the unusual custom stuff is off the plate with modular.

Go check out the operation in person, check out one they did that has been placed and that you can get up close with the owners. Preferably at least 1-2 years old/on-site.


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## billb3 (Sep 20, 2011)

2 modulars went in down the street
1 went well 4 sections  swung into place and a month later the owners moved in.
The other one came in 4 sections and ended up somewhat put together on the front lawn. Wrong foundation. The whole project sat there for 14 months. The foundation was replaced, the house that sat was taken away and a month later there was a house, Except the front door was on the second floor.


6 Mcmansions went in on a cul de sac  a while later and with that one walls were built elsewhere and trucked in and swung into place.
all 6 were slightly different and no mistakes. Quite interesting efficient use of labor.


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## MasterMech (Sep 20, 2011)

Gotta love that the houses are built indoors out of the weather and sided/roofed almost immediately upon arrival.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 20, 2011)

We are at the tail end of having a stick-built home completed. We close this Thursday. When we were in the planning stages, my wife and I were really gung ho on modular. The idea of fast build time and better pricing was exciting. We submitted our plans to three modular companies and a couple of stick-builders. Once the quotes came back we were shocked to see that the modular homes were 25% - 45% more costly than stick-built.

After doing some research, we learned that modular builders can only make the individual boxes that make up the house so big since they have to transport them over the roadways. So, the fewer number of modules your home requires, the lower the price. Our plans had some architectural details that we really wanted that forced the modular companies to go outside of the normal bos so to speak. This resulted in a higher construction cost.

So, if you have plans that can easily be modularized (Colonial, Cape, etc.), I think modular is great. You get a stronger building since the modules have to be transported to the site without collapsing, quick assembly time, and consistent construction.

I am happy that we went with stick-built. Our construction went quickly (4.5 months from demolition of the original house) to closing, we got the architectural details we wanted, and we saved money.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 20, 2011)

Beaten, where do you live?

I recently (2 years ago) purchased a new house from a plan I found online. I went to check out various modular home companies. It was a lot cheaper to buy a modular then it was to get the house built by a contractor. And MUCH cheaper than buying something similar already on the market.

In the province of QUebec, there are very strict regulations in the construction industry. Long story short: every tradesmen is part of a union. Carpenters have 2 union choices. You have to pay high wages, union dues, etc for every person on the work site where the house is going to be. essentially, every carpenter costs $65 an hour minimjm ($30 for wage, $14 for union dues, etc etc). So for 2 guys it would cost $1000 in labour per day to get a house built. I have seen contruction strikes (since the carpenters are unionized) and your house sits on the lot for 4 months with nothing getting done, no roof, water infiltration, wood gets soaked, etc.

HOWEVER, in the warehouse where they build the modules, a module is not considered a house (since it won't have electricity or running water right away, only one aspect of the construction is complete) it is considered an object that is movable. Guys in the shops get $15 an hour to put it together. All the guys are carpenters. Once on site and connecting it (which takes a week for a bungalow), it costs $65 an hour per person. However, you save a ton of money in the earlier building process. I found a contractor for my foundation (gave him blueprints that the house company provided me), electrician to hook up wiring and install pannel, painter, plasterer and plumber.

The house is built indoors, covered, shingled, etc. I have a TON of pics of the process (from my house being built in the beginning at the warehouse to the day they arrived with the pieces to the finished product). It rained the first day but guess what: the house was wrapped and no rain came in. No wetness. We could modify the plans to our needs before construction began. we consulted with the sales people ona regular basis.

Don't forget: these big companies get better prices on materials than most hardware stores. They deal in larger volume.

And my house has a 7 year warranty.  I will certainly build another house again using a prefab modular company. 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. 

Here's a few pics to show the process.


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## kettensÃ¤ge (Sep 20, 2011)

billb3 said:
			
		

> 2 modulars went in down the street
> 1 went well 4 sections  swung into place and a month later the owners moved in.




My brother built one like that 15 yrs. ago. Was really nice except for the shoddy job done inside finishing the drywall where the sections were joined.

A friend of mine lives in a single story modular as well. Floor framing is steel. Feels real solid but the windows are really cheap and look like they belong in a trailer. His is about 20 to 25 yrs old.


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## joefrompa (Sep 20, 2011)

One thing I'll add is that one of the nice things about building the exterior shell in a factory condition is the integrity of the exterior sheathing. To me, one of the biggest problems with new homes (most common at least) is a poor job done on flashing/sheathing/lapping when someone is tasked with doing 1 of 100 things and not in an order they are used to doing it (i.e. on a custom building job).

Now, 99% of the time the person is a professional and does it right.

But it's extremely common on new built homes to have someone not sheathe correctly, not lap the tyvek right, not flash right, poorly install a chimney step flashing, poorly install a roof vent, poorly install plumbing vent pipe(s), etc.

And it's just a thin bead of water - so it takes 6 months to show up inside your home.

Happens even with good quality builders with great reputations. My guess is that good quality modular factories have this happen less, because there are few less custom aspects, they work in a precise order, and the guys doing it continually do it the same way.

Now that doesn't apply to things like drywall mudding as discussed above, or other interior finish jobs that are probably done on site, subbed out, or inconsistently done by different people based upon what else is going on.

...

No matter what, heavy home owner involvement in someone who knows what each stage should look like is going to be key. Once you learn your stuff, it takes little time to tell if the proper insulation was used. If the vapor barrier is on the right side. If the drywall was properly attached and if it was properly taped (which will avoid the cracks later on). Does the flashing look right. Is the rough carpentry right and properly supported on the major points. How's the foundation look and was it put in right. Is the electrical run properly.

All of this stuff takes SOME knowledge of course, but it's really not that much. You don't need to test out the electricians abilities - you just need to know how many outlets are on one 20 amp breaker, are the boxes firmly anchored, stuff like that.

If you've got that stuff, and a good person doing the building for you, you'll be happy no matter if it's modular or stick built. Stuff will go wrong, but you'll catch it together and correct it.


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## mayhem (Sep 20, 2011)

10 years ago when we built our hose we went through the same evaluation process.  At the time I could not find a modular house that I would want to put my family in...all 5 different dealers and manufacturers left a LOT to be desired, even in the spec houses they use to try to make sales.  Many of my hangups though came from the finish work thats always done on site.  The thing for me though was I've never been inside a modular house that didn't feel really, really cheap to me.  Lousy joining jobs sometimes, every step on every floor squeaks because you're walking on multiple unbonded layers of OSB and vibrated and shifted and loostened up during shipping and loading/unloading.

Most of the dealers we interviewed were not exactly the most personable people either...time is money for them and they could give two craps about you or your cares...they want to sit with you for as little time as possible, get you to fill out an order form and tick the options boxes you want and get your deposit check cashed before lunch.  It was like buying a car at a dicount lot run...guy doesn't care much about your concerns and its not worth his time to address them because there's going to be someone lese coming along soon thats not as picky as you and is willing to accept tha"thats the way it is".

Again, let me be clear, I haven't been inside a new modular house.  I'm sure there have been major improvements in techniques.  We chose to build a log cabin in our specific circumstance.  If you cna work with a good dealer and get quality on site work, a modular is probably a good option.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 20, 2011)

mayhem said:
			
		

> 10 years ago when we built our hose we went through the same evaluation process.  At the time I could not find a modular house that I would want to put my family in...all 5 different dealers and manufacturers left a LOT to be desired, even in the spec houses they use to try to make sales.  Many of my hangups though came from the finish work thats always done on site.  The thing for me though was I've never been inside a modular house that didn't feel really, really cheap to me.  Lousy joining jobs sometimes, every step on every floor squeaks because you're walking on multiple unbonded layers of OSB and vibrated and shifted and loostened up during shipping and loading/unloading.
> 
> Most of the dealers we interviewed were not exactly the most personable people either...time is money for them and they could give two craps about you or your cares...they want to sit with you for as little time as possible, get you to fill out an order form and tick the options boxes you want and get your deposit check cashed before lunch.  It was like buying a car at a dicount lot run...g*uy doesn't care much about your concerns and its not worth his time to address them because there's going to be someone lese coming along soon thats not as picky as you *and is willing to accept tha"thats the way it is".
> 
> Again, let me be clear, I haven't been inside a new modular house.  I'm sure there have been major improvements in techniques.  We chose to build a log cabin in our specific circumstance.  If you cna work with a good dealer and get quality on site work, a modular is probably a good option.



With the state of the economy and lack of construction I see . . . especially on single family homes . . . I suspect the dealer's actions may be a little less cavalier towards any prospective customer these days.


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## Battenkiller (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks a lot!  This whole experience is _not_ something a guy needs to deal with for the first time at about 60 years old, but we gotta do something and do it fast.  If  the numbers come back good and we can get into a modular, it seems that's the best option for us.  Been calling all morning, and it turns out these things are well thought of by just about everybody.  No one said, "No... STAY AWAY!  Buy one of our conventionally built homes."  In fact, one custom builder knows the guy who is building them locally and he said they are first-quality homes.  He even thought that they were built a bit better in a lot of ways because they are built indoors.

The site developing contractor can do the foundation.  He said he will use insulating foam forms for the concrete that are left in place.  It has an insulation factor of R-50 and comes with sheetrock already hung in the basement.  With the R-19 walls and R-38 ceiling insulation, we should be able to heat it with a candle in the basement.  Seriously, though, he said we would have no problem heating the entire place with a pellet stove in the basement.  'Course, I'm a firewood kind of guy.

Maybe I'll have room for the shop _and_ a full-size pool table like I always wanted.


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## Later (Sep 20, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> We've been looking at overpriced, distressed existing homes for the last two weeks and are pretty distressed at this point ourselves.  This evening we went out with a money man/realtor who has a 1.5 acre plot he is willing to develop and build on for us in the same price range we have been considering for used homes.  We just love the site - out of the way in the country, but just close enough to the nearest neighbors to hear their chainsaws running.
> 
> The realtor can put together a place for us using a site development contractor, and a modular home on his property for well shy of $200K.
> 
> ...



Washington County BOCES students built a modular last year. It may still be available. I know the one built at the Meyers center took quite a while to sell.


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## Jags (Sep 20, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> He said he will use insulating foam forms for the concrete that are left in place.  It has an insulation factor of R-50 and comes with sheetrock already hung in the basement.



That stuff is the cats meow.  I wouldn't consider pouring a home foundation without a similar product. Period.


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## joefrompa (Sep 20, 2011)

Battenkiller - The ICF (insulated concrete forms) is a great construction technique, but with r-19 walls and r-38 ceiling I question about how easy it'll be to heat cool. Those are great modern techniques but there are still modern houses left right and sunday requiring extensive heating and cooling. 

The big thing is air-sealing combined with good insulation, protection from thermal bridging, radiant heat capture, and good site location/building for the climate.

How big are you thnking of going?


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## Swedishchef (Sep 20, 2011)

Mayhem: I am sorry to hear that you found most modular homes are cheap. That simply means you have not been to the proper ones. The ones around here are pretty nice. Some better than others. For example, my floors are 3/4 T&G plywood floors. The roof is the same. Some companies use aspenite instead to try and cut corners/save some $. I asked the company to print ALL materials used and in what part of the build and they provided it for me. Yes, aspenite is common on sheathing but that seems to be the norm.

The ICFs are great. Where I live they are very expensive to get, hence why I put 1.5 inches of high density spray foam on the walls to act as my thermal barrier. I then put R14 roxul between the studs of the basement walls. My house is 1450 sqft and my Osburn 2300 can heat the entire house (stove is in the basement). And it's damn cold where I live in the winter months.

So far, not a single issue with the house. Not a crack in the plaster nor the foundation. Last December we received 266mm of rain (26.6cm) in 3 days. TONS of people flooded. I didn't get a single drop of water in the house. 4 days later we got 3 feet of snow and everything froze. No shifting of the house, nothing.

Here are a couple more pics of my "modular" home. Do you think it looks cheap (heh...other than the TERRIBLE cutout paint job around the molding on the ceiling at the top of the kitchen cupboards....FIL pulled the tape off before it dried! Peeled lots of pieces off). 

We took the pics 4 weeks after moving in, not everything was unpacked...

Andrew


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## Battenkiller (Sep 21, 2011)

Jags - Nice to hear a vote of confidence from you, I always trust your opinion in these matters.

Joe  - We are empty nesters, we are thinking small 3BD ranch, maybe 1200-1400 sq.ft.  The place we live in now only has a 900 sq.ft. footprint (1 1/2 stories), 1400 sq.ft. will feel like a palace.

Andrew - Not cheap looking at all!  Too fancy for us, in fact, but that's the way they all seem to come.  

If I could build my own, it would be small, efficient, have tons of windows, be built like a tank and be as plain as Wonder Bread inside.  No use paying for glitz for the short remainder of our lives.  Nobody visits anymore and Iâ€™m always too busy or tired to look at a classy interior.  I like rustic interiors, they just feel warmer to me.  Resale isnâ€™t a big concern, (except for the kids, who will one day inherit it).  It could have dirt floors and planks for storage for all I care, as long as nothing leaked.  OK... not really, but you know what I mean.  Of course, Lady BK feels otherwise, and I do like to look at _her_ a lot.  I like how she looks when she's smiling, so we'll get what she wants.  Two of the places we walked through were pretty snazzy.  Her comment was, "They're nice, but they're just not us", so I think we are on the same page here.

Nice thing about the property if this works out is it will have a 1200-1400 sq.ft. workshop in a walkout basement with sliding glass doors.  Easy in with materials, easy out with finished product.  I may even have room to start building cabinets and furniture... another reason why I'd like to dumb down the interior glitz.  I'm thinking plain cabinets that I wouldn't mind ripping out in the future and making my own from solid cherry I mill myself.  A nice dining room set and breakfront for the love of my life, and a walnut gun cabinet in the den.  Plenty of deer sign everywhere there.

So I got my fingers crossed, just have to wait and see if it can all be put together for me at the right price.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 21, 2011)

Keep me posted on how you make out. I am very curious.  

My place is 1450 sqft and my basement is 70% done. My total cost (from lawyers fees for buying the land to my soil analysis, everything to date) is about 230K. 

I too prefer a rustic look. I am not a fan of modern/fancy things but that seems to be how they come these days. That's the new "in" thing and I am planning to sell this house in 2 years time. Hence why the house looks the way it does.

Andrew


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## joefrompa (Sep 21, 2011)

$230k for that beauty. Yeesh, I live in the wrong area.


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## laynes69 (Sep 21, 2011)

After watching my brother go through multiple lawyers after purchasing a custom modular home, I will never purchase one. Beautiful oak cabinets with etched glass, sunken floors, large oak entertainment center built it, stone gas fireplace, etc. The second day it was in, the furnace quit and the pipes froze and burst. Half of the ductwork in the home had no pressure they found wall insulation in the duct. Probably a 30 degree difference from one side of the home to the other. In the summertime, the central air can't keep up, in the winter the heating bills are very high. They had it built with 6" walls and additional insulation. Under the crown moulding there was a continous gap where the drywall wasn't taped and mudded. The windows leaked badly which were upgraded. They lost over 3/4 of the texturing on the master bath ceiling after the first shower. The finish has came off all fixtures, they lost alot of siding an part of the shingles during the first windstorm. I never was fond of them, but that ruined it for me. With all that said, I've seen the same on cheap stick built homes. Not all new homes are energy efficient and sealed correctly. If I built a home, I would be picky to avoid these problems. It's little things during a build that make a huge difference. For me its deeper than the surface. I've done electrical, drywall, roofing, ductwork, etc. to this home. I like the character from a old house but the efficiencies of a newer home. When I do a project I do things how I want them done. After seeing dad get screwed from a so called construction crew it's hard to trust people. I've seem more bad then good.


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## btuser (Sep 21, 2011)

Single story yes, 2 story maybe notsomuch.  I looked into it 10 years ago and couldn't believe they were charging the same prices as stick built for what we were getting.   Most of what I saw was a glorified double-wide trailer.  Dig the hole, pour the foundation, drop the house, hook up the water, power, cap the ridge and patch the drywall.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 21, 2011)

I have no idea if this company is good or not . . . but here's a modular that seems to have a little more rustic design. It's a log cabin style chalet . . . I think it just has log cabin siding -- but I'm not sure.

http://showcasehomesofmaine.com/maine_model_homes.html#chalet


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## smokinj (Sep 21, 2011)

Modular seem to go done in value don't know if that hold true on the new ones.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 22, 2011)

Time have certainly changed concerning modular homes in CAnada. Check out this company in Quebec:
http://www.bonnevillehomes.com/


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## willworkforwood (Sep 22, 2011)

That's a real horror story from Laynes, and I'm sure others have similar tales of woe.  But I have nothing but good things to say about our 4 section, 2600 SF modular - 20 years old and still going very strong, with no significant defects of any kind.  One thing that helped us out immensely was the fellow who worked with us on the house plans, and all of the choices and options - very knowledgeable, and willing to take whatever time was necessary to ensure the house would meet our expectations.  I took care of getting all of the subs for the site work, but BK it sounds like your guy will handle all of that as well - much easier for you that way!  Do you have multiple customer references who don't mind being contacted ? (and visited would be even better).  Good luck, and I hope it works out well for you!


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## peakbagger (Sep 22, 2011)

I bought  modular 20 years ago and havent had any significant issues. The materials were first rate and the building techniques used were more than a stick built builder would do as the house has to be "stiff" in order for it to be trailered to the site. A quick inspection of one of the houses built by the company who you are looking at usually will reveal a lot. I also specified the windows and a few other items in the contract. One thing I definitely stated was no chipboard.

On the other hand there are poorly made modular houses built as there is a market for them, so caveat emptor. 

The only issue I have had with my house is that the original design called for a sheetrock ceiling to span the two halves of the house. When shipped there was space for 2' foot filler strip of sheetrock covering the joint between the halfs. Its looked good for a few years, but inevitably the seams on the filler strips work and cracks appear. I attribute it to the two halves of the house moving slightly due to seasonal temperature and moisture variations. After the 2nd repair, I am going to install an expansion joint and a cover strip. I expect that if I wanted to install another layer of sheetrock over the entire ceiling with long sheets spanning the joint, the problem would go away but it isnt worth the hassle.


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## cottonwoodsteve (Oct 3, 2011)

Some things to look for; 
How high are the outside walls. Some are only 7 foot and make them look bigger by always making a peaked roof.
A normal house has 8 foot walls and the windows start about a foot down from that. A modular house may have 7 foot walls. So to make it look proportioned the windows start a foot down. That can mean the windows are set low when you are on the inside. Some window tops appear to be at eye level and you have to bend down to look up at the trees and the sky. Also some cabinets etc. are only 80% of the normal stick built size.
There are "Manufactured Homes" = mobile homes in 1 to 3 long section put side by side.
There are "Modular Homes" = more square modules and more stick like.
Make sure you and the salesman are using the correct terms and you know what you are really looking at.
Watch for designs that aren't quite right because they needed a wall there to support it when it goes down the hiway.
Normal roof eaves to protect the walls from weather. Some have little or no eaves to meet the hiway load width.
Short eaves also make it look cheap.


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