# Any happy greenwood owners?



## rschoensta (May 23, 2008)

I am going to be taking a serious look at greenwood boilers next week.

I spoke with the dealer for my area and was very impressed. 
He has 30 years experience in the heating business.
He just started selling Greenwoods but he is very excited about them.
He was able to answer all my questions intelligently. 
For example Creosote buildup problems - improper burning. 
Blowback problems - inadequate draft and don't open the door to peek at the fire until it's almost out. 
Can you burn wet wood - no at least not without losing a lot of heat up the chimney up to 40%. 
Cracking firebox -- Yes that will happen in all units - it's cement and the stresses of heating up and cooling down will inevitably crack the 
firebox but won't effect performance.

The owner will do the site review and will give a complete quote for a fully installed system.   
He or his workers will do the installation if we decide to go that way.  

I'm still not completely sold on Greenwood but I'm thinking the enormous heat storage that the concrete floors offers (10,000 sf of radiant heated concrete) and if necessary additional water storage,
I should be able to make the system work.    Of course I could probably say that about most of the boilers mentioned here if they had that much storage. 


Although greenwood is relatively new Seton has been around a long time.
My impression is that Seton uses a similar system. 
I.e. lots of refractory brick and not a lot of water. 

I wonder how the refractory in those hold up over twenty or thirty years. 

Anyway after reading the posts here I haven't seen anyone really happy with the greenwood and I'm wondering if I missed them.


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## Eric Johnson (May 23, 2008)

I think both Greenfire and Greenwood are based on the Seton design. Everyone here who has those boilers seems pretty happy--not necessarily with the customer service in the case of the GW, but happy with the performance of their boilers. Adobe is another Seton knock-off, but apparently not a very good one. Everyone who owns an Adobe seems pretty cheesed off.

Even though they have fundamentally different designs, the Seton refractory boiler and the Tarm/EKO/Econoburn/WoodGun, etc. water-based gasifiers all accomplish basically the same thing--a clean, efficient burn when operated properly. It's the "operated properly" part that can get tricky. Basically, that means dry wood and in the case of the Seton-style boilers, good draft, since there ain't no fan. If you're going to buy a GW, make sure you have both.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (May 23, 2008)

At this point, I'd call myself realativly happy on the GW 100. The smoke issue is not an issue for me, because I installed it outside. Smoke can be mitigated by letting it burn all the way down to coals, then putting a layer of hard, dry, barkless wood down, then filling on top of that, and closing the door . . . all within 5 seconds!! I've never installed the draft inducer, I've never measured the draft . . . ignorance is bliss.

Jury's still out on the cracking refractory. If I end up having to tear the beast apart and replace the whole thing (with a piece shipped in which will then crack) before I start making money on this, I am going to be VERY pissed.

I am running 8" all the way - I think many are reducing to 6" - and I have seen creosote but nothing that builds up in the chimney to effect draft. It does dump the fine ash in the back of the unit below the smoke exit . . . I have literally let the fire go out, then reach in through the chimney opening and scoop the ash out!!

The funny thing about your post though is that your dealer has not been with GW very long . . . lol, neither of you have any idea how bad these people suck at customer service :coolmad: 

Though they say they are from Canada, they HAVE to be Americans to be THAT impossible!


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## 2.beans (May 24, 2008)

i believe the greenwood has a one piece fire box and that contributes to the cracking. correct me if im wrong. the seton has individual pieces so it can expand and contract to help with cracking issues. my seton  has a small crack between the draft holes, but nothing that will effect performance.


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## antos_ketcham (May 24, 2008)

I'll throw out that I have not been happy with my Greenwood for my situation. 

Without water storage or a very large house that matches or exceeds the BTU rating, my experience has been that you get a lot of creosote build-up and creosote laden condensation dripping out of the unit on the floor. I think the sales pitch that the refractory is a substitute for storage can only work in the right set of circumstances. It seems to work for DKerley and ISeeDeadBTU's - not for me. 

My other main issue has been lack of easy access to the back of the unit in order to inspect and clean out the creosote. Without tearing off off my plumbing and drain the unit I can't clean it. 

I think for the right set-up or if you add storage it can work well. 

I don't have room for storage so I am changing units. 

Pete


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## sixroses (May 25, 2008)

I have burned wit a GW for 2 1/2 seasons and continue to be pleased with the performance. I am now down to 1 fire every 2 days for DHW with 300 gallons of storage. Have not had any creosote problems, chimney is shiney right to the top. I did put a hood system above my door so smoke goes straight out side. Heating bills of 30-40.00/month will make pay back a lot quicker now.
Steve


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## Paul G (May 26, 2008)

I was seriously considering a Greenwood until I saw one in operation at a dealer.  Before I continue, my disclaimer is that I do not own a wood boiler (but am actively shopping for one) and am relatively new to this.  My observation/concerns of the Greenwood are:

1. Smoke billowed out of the door when opened during burning, even though they had a fan assisted chimney.  This wasn't a big deal for this install, since they had it on a loading dock, under a roof but open to the outside.  If this were in a basement, the smoke detector would certainly go off every time.  You've probably read strategies on this thread for minimizing this problem (quickly load when the fire has died down, install an exhaust hood above the door).

2.  Condensation/creosote dripping out at a seam.  Is this normal for wood boilers?

3.  The Greenwood doesn't really seem to be a gasification unit.  There is no secondary combustion chamber and the heat exchanger is partially located within the primary burning chamber.  I would think that this would prevent complete combustion by removing heat from the fire too soon.  Other gasification units have a secondary chamber to maximize the combustion temp and perform the heat exchange on the exhaust gas, presumably after combustion has been completed.  The Greenwood that I saw had a thick coating of creosote on the visible portion of the heat exchanger.

For these reasons, I'm considering a Tarm or EKO, however I haven't seen either in action.


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## antos_ketcham (May 26, 2008)

Paul G said:
			
		

> I was seriously considering a Greenwood until I saw one in operation at a dealer.  Before I continue, my disclaimer is that I do not own a wood boiler (but am actively shopping for one) and am relatively new to this.  My observation/concerns of the Greenwood are:
> 
> 1. Smoke billowed out of the door when opened during burning, even though they had a fan assisted chimney.  This wasn't a big deal for this install, since they had it on a loading dock, under a roof but open to the outside.  If this were in a basement, the smoke detector would certainly go off every time.  You've probably read strategies on this thread for minimizing this problem (quickly load when the fire has died down, install an exhaust hood above the door).
> 
> ...



I have been challenged by issues one and two. The concrete under my boiler is black and the odor in the boiler shed is rank. Even when I let the fire burn down, the minute a fresh log hits the coals smoke rolls out and fills the room. There is a guy on this site who solved the smoke issue by using a heavy duty fan to exhaust the smoke outside. As for the condensation issue - in my case I believe it has to do with the fact that my unit is in idle 95% of the time and there is not enough heat to keep any water in vapor form and headed out the chimney - it then condenses and drips out. If I had storage or a much bigger house that kept the unit running open most of the time I don't think this would be an issue. 

Pete


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## DKerley (May 27, 2008)

I'll say that I like the Greenwood and have saved myself a lot of money in fuel bills. I did, however have a creosote build-up problem on the heat transfer tubes but no where else in the unit or chimney. This is indicative of the return water temperature being too low in the tubes. I will be installing a protection loop to prevent the same for next season. With the price of propane (my other heat) going through the roof, I am soooooo glad that I now heat primarily with wood. FYI, I run my unit 24/7 and have not had much in the way of cracking in the refractory. Smoke can be an issue. I would not put the GW inside a basement. Customer service from Greenwood has been good for me.


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## djordan (Jun 9, 2008)

Take a look at my site greenwoodsucks.com.  I think the URL says it all.


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## Eric Johnson (Jun 9, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room, djordan. Interesting website you've got there.


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## sparke (Jun 9, 2008)

I have a Greenfire. Very close in design to GW with a few variations. I do not have any of the creosote problems others mention. I think namely for a few reasons.
1. I do have water storage so fire never idles.
2. I have a draft inducer. Draft is critical.
3. I try to limit return water to 140* or higher.

I have been burning green oak all year because my dry wood supply was already split. Hopefully next year I will have dry rounds.
No condensation issues no dripping. I think folks with those problems have a combination of the 3 things I mentioned. I agree if you have to pay anything close to the other gasifiers I would do more homework. The advantages of burning unsplit wood is great but if I paid as much for my Greenfire as an Eko or Tarm, I think I would rather have one of those units. If I didnt mind a longer pay back I would definitely go Garn or Switzer.


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## sparke (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh, if you do decide to go with this style unit. Check out the Seton or Greenfire. Seton has added something to address the condensation issues and Hx access for cleaning. I don't think Seton is anymore expensive the Greenwood. After all Seton is the original designer...


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## Willman (Jun 10, 2008)

Sparke, What length log does your boiler take ?

Will


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## sparke (Jun 10, 2008)

16-18" long up to 12" diameter.  I have the smallest one 90K Btu.  I believe the others take longer pieces.


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## muncybob (Jun 10, 2008)

Paul G......would appreciate a PM (or forum post) from you on any further findings you have in your search for a boiler since we are both in a similar market area. I am still weighing the installation/purchase costs of both an OWB and a gasifier(inside or in a shed). Lots of decisions and fact finding to do in the next month or so..... Looks like the Greenwood would require an outside install location and seems to be more of a challenge to operate than I think I am up to.


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## Norman (Jun 24, 2008)

Good Job 
This is how all gasification boilers should be installed...... Alot of people think that you just throw wood in and its done...but you nailed it people regardless of what boiler you have return water is critical a mixing valve is cheap,draft is what make the fire and anyone can build a storage tank... I have plans if you are interested....
I am also building one that will be similiar to the Tarm one and will keep you posted.....





			
				sparke said:
			
		

> I have a Greenfire. Very close in design to GW with a few variations. I do not have any of the creosote problems others mention. I think namely for a few reasons.
> 1. I do have water storage so fire never idles.
> 2. I have a draft inducer. Draft is critical.
> 3. I try to limit return water to 140* or higher.
> ...


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## djordan (Jun 24, 2008)

HI Firestarter.  Yes, I would like to see your plans.  Any thoughts on a blower vs a draft inducer?  Also, any recommendations on a draft inducer?

Thanks!!


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