# Pellets piling up in firepot below 10ºF.. Tired of it!



## Bobcat698 (Sep 12, 2014)

I have an http://www.americanenergysystems.com/ Magnum Countryside pellet stove.. 50k ish BTU rating.
It has 5 settings, 1 through 5.
The chimney exits out the bottom floor of my bi-level home out the western facing wall. I have tried with a cap and deflector straight out, as well as with a 90 degree elbow facing south at about a 45 degree angle (per my local stove dealer's suggestion). There is a fresh air inlet pulling air from outside, and the damper works off the furnace blower.. you regulate how fast the air moves out of the stove, adjustable manually.
The chimney exit is 68 inches above grade. There is a 52 inch vertical chimney section, indoors, and a 24 inch horizontal run. 2 90's are in the chimney. A T-90 at the bottom and a 90 to go out through the wall.

It seems that no matter what I do, or whatever pellet fuel I try, I cannot burn the stove at 3 or higher when the temperature is below 10 degrees. I can completely clean the stove top to bottom in the afternoon, set the heat on level 3, and within 6 hours or so the fire pot is full/overflowing. You can turn it down to 1, scoop out some of the excess pellets, and it'll eventually clean out, but as soon as you turn it back up, and the temp is below 10 degrees, the same crap will happen. I've tried running the draft all the way open, half way open, all the way down to nearly closed (like the manual recommends, once you get the flame how you want it)

I have done the following troubleshooting:
Auger motor (obviously not related, but it failed)
Replaced Exhaust fan with a high-output fan (from AES)
Cleaned the stove (several times, with a leaf blow, air compressor, etc)
Replaced the fire pot (was hoping there was a revision)
Disassembled everything that can be taken apart and cleaned
Changed the vent cap to a different style
Put in a fresh air vent (in case of "negative pressure")
Cleaned the chimney 

I've attached 2 pictures of the stove. (yes, the propane cylinder next to the stove is legit)

Can anyone offer any input? What am I doing wrong? I've gone back and forth with AES for advice.. Nothing changes this issue.
I'm ready to sell this stove.. I'm sick and tired of not being able to turn it up when I REALLY need heat. Sure it works good above 10 degrees but it goes below 10 for sometimes a week at a time or longer here.

Thanks for any input!


----------



## johneh (Sep 12, 2014)

Does the stove have a manual draft control if so open it up a bit
sounds like lack of combustion air at higher pellet flow ( auger cycling faster )
putting more fuel in the burn pot


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 12, 2014)

How old of stove? I am thinking bad gaskets in doors if more than 5 years old. I have serviced many and am getting ready to sell one I had as a backup. I hated the hidden passages.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 12, 2014)

johneh said:


> Does the stove have a manual draft control if so open it up a bit
> sounds like lack of combustion air at higher pellet flow ( auger cycling faster )
> putting more fuel in the burn pot


Yes. I've tried it wide open. 

BTW the chimney is 3 inch.


----------



## BobMA (Sep 12, 2014)

Might need to think about 4" pipe......elbows count as "5", each one foot vertical counts as "0.5", each one foot of horizontal counts as "1".... If total value exceeds 15 then recommendation is to go to 4" pipe....what is the diameter of outside air?... With my stove, any run longer than 6' , manufacturer recommends 3" OAK.....your manual might have some recommendations on what I've mentioned above


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 12, 2014)

By your numbers it adds up to just over 14. The oak is 3 inch.


----------



## BobMA (Sep 12, 2014)

Sorry, just went back and calculated, thought your reference to 45 degrees was a pipe fitting that was installed....you have 2 - 90's = 10,  52" vertical = roughly 2.2 and 24" of horizontal = 2, so your under the "15"...would think your okay.....guess I'd still stick with outside air recommendation ..... Any chance of an obstruction anywhere?


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 12, 2014)

I stand corrected.. I do have a 90 degree elbow pointing at South outside angled at a 45 towards the ground. 
I guess I have had that elbow on for a couple years.. With that 90 factored in I'm over the 15 recommendation.. Is it generally OK to vent to the west, wind wise?


----------



## Don2222 (Sep 12, 2014)

Hello

The stove not working on heat level 3 when the outside temperature is 10 degrees or less is preventing the proper air/fuel mixture for complete combustion in that stove. I have tried Direct Temp vennting that warms the burn air but those stoves are not made to work with it. Therefore the best option is to trade the stove.


----------



## BobMA (Sep 12, 2014)

My vent has a cap on end that looks kind of like a dryer vent without the flapper (dura vent) and mine faces east, so I honestly don't know....perhaps try and remove the elbow when you have the issue, wish I knew a way to simulate 10*F


----------



## yrock87 (Sep 13, 2014)

I would recommend dropping the outside air kit to see what happens. Pulling in extra cold air does not improve combustion, it reduces it in pellet stove because you are now having to use btus to heat up combustion air in order for the fuel to burn properly. Living in Fairbanks I was advised not to add an outside air kit for this reason.


----------



## Mt Bob (Sep 13, 2014)

So you have been in touch with the dealer that sold you the stove?Or is this another bought it from the tractor supply store?Who installed it?


----------



## johninwi (Sep 13, 2014)

Whats the history of the problem?
Guessing you've had the stove a while and this is a somewhat recent change?



Bobcat698 said:


> Put in a fresh air vent (in case of "negative pressure")


So the problem existed before having the outside air vent?


----------



## DBCOOPER (Sep 13, 2014)

yrock87 said:


> I would recommend dropping the outside air kit to see what happens. Pulling in extra cold air does not improve combustion, it reduces it in pellet stove because you are now having to use btus to heat up combustion air in order for the fuel to burn properly. Living in Fairbanks I was advised not to add an outside air kit for this reason.



Where do you think the air comes from when you don't have an outside air kit?


----------



## doghouse (Sep 13, 2014)

Pre-heating air for use in an 1100 degree fire.     OK.


----------



## yrock87 (Sep 13, 2014)

DBCOOPER said:


> Where do you think the air comes from when you don't have an outside air kit?


Obviously it comes from the hotel envelope of the house.  And yes cold outside air will "leaks" it's way in somehow or negative pressure will develop. I have a tight house, but as an outside air kit was not advised, I leave an outside air vent in the room with the stove open. Combustion air is preheated from the house envelope and is replaced in the heated room minimizing drafts. 

The reason they say that the direct outside air can be a problem in very cold temps (and this situation may or may not be caused by this) is because when you have  sub zero air coming into a stove directly into the Pellets you are trying to bring that 0 air up in temp an extra 70 or so degrees in order to reach a high, clean burn temp. Let's say your exhaust temps are 300*, and that is where your stove is happy at. If you pull in 70 or 60 degree air, it heats up 240 by the combustion of Pellets. But if your outside air is MUCH colder, let's just say a nice Arctic - 30, you are now asking your stove to heat air 330 degrees to reach that nice happy temp. An extra 100 degrees of heating for 150 cfm of combustion air is no chump change. 
If you have an esp like a Harmon it can cause significant overfeeding of Pellets just to keep the exhaust temps up, I don't know what the specific results would be with a stove that does not adjust feed rates, maybe Pellets would just pile up because they can not burn adequately. 

I do see that the op installed outside air in an attempt to fix the problem, missed that last time.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 13, 2014)

Ok, to clear up a few things;
The stove came with the house, I didn't buy it.
The outside air kit has been installed since I've had the house/stove in 2009.

The "make up" air kit is model 216,  here.
http://www.skuttle.com/aircontrols.html
Pretty much the best way to waste $1250.. (had someone else install it)
It only brings in fresh air when the furnace runs... Which if the pellet stove is working, doesn't need to run.

I installed the skuttle in fall of 2011. Made no difference in the cold temperatures. 

I am quite curious about trying to unhook the outside air kit.. It would make sense and maybe even heat slightly better since the air coming into combustion chamber would be 70 degrees+ warmer..  But cooler air is denser..


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 13, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Ok, to clear up a few things;
> The stove came with the house, I didn't buy it.
> The outside air kit has been installed since I've had the house/stove in 2009.
> 
> ...




Get an air compressor and get all of the crud out of the small bendy place in the exhaust channels inside that Countryside, maybe a leaf-blower on vacuum can do the job.  

Don can tell you where they are and how to get to them.  He can also tell you about a high CFM combustion blower for that stove.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 13, 2014)

Cheap coat hanger and get into the wall behind the fire brick by going up thru the ash bin. Can give that panel behind the brick a few good thumps to help shake out those hidden passages too. PIA


----------



## daffonce (Sep 13, 2014)

if pellets are building up it seems like you aren't getting enough combustion air, or your feed rate is too high.  seems like people are saying the stove you have has hiden exhaust passages, i would start there, if they are plugged your exhaust blower will pull less air through burn pot causing less burn.  the door gasket is another good idea, read up on the dollar bill test.  if it is leaking and the hiden passages are blocked your exhaust blower will pull air through the leaky door gasket instead of through the burn pot, meaning you won't be burning pellets.  also i would think that you might want to try the 4" exhaust, it is less restrictive and would allow exhaust to more freely flow.  my bet is combo restrictive exhaust passages and leaky door gasket combo.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 13, 2014)

I have installed the high cfm exhaust blower already, last winter. No change.

I've replaced the door gasket and I have made sure to do the dollar bill/paper test. It's tight. 

Trust me, I've used a leaf blower and an air compressor.. I was so sick of the bs that I drug it outside at 5 degrees one morning and did it again. I know where the hidden passages are.. I've even rigged up a flexible clear hose to my vacumn to get in there real deep like.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 13, 2014)

Now since you tell us that you did all of that, please post a picture of your burn pot and tell us exactly how well it sits in its cradle. 

Air coming into the stove should pass through the pellet pile if it goes around the pellet pile  you are fighting a head wind.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 13, 2014)

Do you mean a head wind on the cold air side, or on the exhaust side?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 13, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Do you mean a head wind on the cold air side, or on the exhaust side?



No if the combustion air is going around instead of through the pellet pile the fire isn't getting enough air, this situation is a combustion air bypass and is exactly the same as not enough air.   But since you brought up air against the vent system (both the exhaust and the intake comprise the vent system) I'll just say you should never vent into the prevailing wind and your OAK and Exhaust should be on the same wall.  Back pressure caused by venting into the wind reduces the air flow through the stove.  You also should not have any downward sections in your exhaust (you appear to be close to the 4" break point) down sloping exhaust systems also restrict airflow.


----------



## hoverwheel (Sep 14, 2014)

Last winter I had a new pellet stove that would build up a big pile of unburned pellets and choke. In the spring I took it outdoors and used a leaf blower to super clean everything. 

It took an hour and unreal amounts of billowing ash, but it ran like new again. 

Will need to clean it more and deeper this winter.

Pellet stoves want to be clean as a whistle.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 14, 2014)

I know what you are getting at, but like I said I literally pulled the stove outside at 5 degrees, cleaned it with a leaf blower and an air compressor, and that same night it pulled the same crap..


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 14, 2014)

I had one stove with a bunch of rust scale that plugged up the works. No vac or air could dislodge it as it was way up behind. That why I stated trying to use a coat hanger and getting up the back. Probably less than a month to real heating. Was a post for new Countryside for 1k on CL yesterday


----------



## alternativeheat (Sep 14, 2014)

I don't know about where you are but around here it's very rare to hit the 10 deg zone and have calm weather. I too would have vented west if to go straight out ( I have a Harman) and the prevailing cold weather wind is NW. After some debate I decided to go straight up my chimney with 4" vent so that no matter what the wind direction with a good lid on there I had suction not back pressure. Last year was the year to find out, we had 0 temps and 40 MPH NW winds, not a hitch in the burn situation. Harman also says, as has been mentioned, that if to vent into the wind ( which is on the least recommended list incidentally) to also have your OAK facing the same direction. In your shoes I'd think about that venting rig you have. Do as the others are saying as well but I really suggest you don't vent into a prevailing wind and out of range of length for 3" venting to begin with.. It can't be good !


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 14, 2014)

Alright, I'll swap out the chimney to 4 inch. The oak is on the same wall as the chimney. I guess I'm not really out anything as AFAIK you can't HURT anything by going to 4 inch.

If it's still a POS with 4 inch I'll rip it out and put something better in, stove wise.

I'm in central wi by the way.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 14, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Alright, I'll swap out the chimney to 4 inch. The oak is on the same wall as the chimney. I guess I'm not really out anything as AFAIK you can't HURT anything by going to 4 inch.
> 
> If it's still a POS with 4 inch I'll rip it out and put something better in, stove wise.
> 
> I'm in central wi by the way.


Might checkout a Cumberland multifuel if the stove ends up being a anchor.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 15, 2014)

Do AES stoves even have a good reputation on here or am I just lucky?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 15, 2014)

All pellet stoves have issues if they were not maintained and some have problems out of the box.

Your issue is an improper fuel/air mixture.  This can be because of a large number of reasons including those things that have already been put forth.  All we can do is run the list and to even do that we need information from you.

A used stove can be problematic.   If the stove was installed and burned in properly it should work on the highest heat setting that the manual says can be used in the manner they tell you it can be used.

Pellet quality also enters the equation a high ash pellet needs more frequent cleaning or even a different burn pot.  If your stove uses a different pot for pellets than corn and you have the wrong pot in the stove things will not work as you expect.  If your burn pot is warped there is likely a combustion air bypass.  As Bioburner mentioned even rust scale build up in the right spot can cause trouble and not get dislodged easily during normal cleaning.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 15, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I was just curious if anyone had input in general about AES. I'm sure just like with anything else there's good stoves and there's your Wal Mart junk.. That's why I ask.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 15, 2014)

My bag of parts is considered a "bad" one.  At least one of the AES stoves had a reputation that wasn't all that great, nothing that a little work couldn't take care of.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 15, 2014)

BTW mine worked just fine even at -22  last winter and I am heating from my den on the lower level of the house, up until the auger motor crapped after 30+ tons of service and I fell and broke my arm and could no longer maintain the stove.  Not bad for a bag of parts.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 15, 2014)

Still servicing one that eats over four tons corn going on 10 heating seasons. One convection motor, one exhaust fan and one bushing.


----------



## smwilliamson (Sep 16, 2014)

Found your problem.....

"I have an http://www.americanenergysystems.com/ Magnum Countryside pellet stove"

Sorry to be snarky...but I believe everyone here knows of my undying love for AES


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 16, 2014)

There is also a control board setting that may need attention on your stove Bobcat698.  I remember seeing a technical bulletin on it in a thread posted here


smwilliamson said:


> Found your problem.....
> 
> "I have an http://www.americanenergysystems.com/ Magnum Countryside pellet stove"
> 
> Sorry to be snarky...but I believe everyone here knows of my undying love for AES




What would be your suggestion that he can do to take care of his stove issue without the snark or spending an arm and  leg on another pellet eater as they all (as this forum and others can attest to) have problems.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 16, 2014)

No worries about the snark. I'd take a sledgehammer to this stove in a heartbeat.. but I don't like the propane bill.

Like I said, if its a pile of crap and is going to continue to be, it'll be gone. 

I'll try the 4 inch chimney, then try the outside air kit delete.. and go from there.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 16, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> No worries about the snark. I'd take a sledgehammer to this stove in a heartbeat.. but I don't like the propane bill.
> 
> Like I said, if its a pile of crap and is going to continue to be, it'll be gone.
> 
> I'll try the 4 inch chimney, then try the outside air kit delete.. and go from there.



Don't try a 4" yet, how big is your current OAK and is it totally clear they have been known to get plugged.  While you are at it what are you using on the end of that OAK outside.  People have been known to have that so restricted that it causes problems.


Read all of this https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/countryside-baby-magnum-feeding-too-fast.122308/  burn pot pictures please.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 16, 2014)

The outside air kit has 3 inch piping. I attached a sweet picture. It isn't plugged, and I remember over the winter when I pulled the hose off the stove, plenty of COLD air was coming through it.

Regarding the fire pot picture, here's two I took and sent to AES in winter..
There are two pictures of the flame at -5 outside. One with the draft knob out only slightly, the other with it out all the way.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 16, 2014)

That's not right. The fan should ramp up when your turn the stove up. The stove is thermostatable and once the damper is set should be able to go from three down to one to idle without resetting the damper. Issue with the control board? Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 16, 2014)

Which fan should ramp up? The exhaust fan? I guarantee that never changes.. It's always the same.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 16, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Which fan should ramp up? The exhaust fan? I guarantee that never changes.. It's always the same.


Well there's the problem. The CB adjusts the air to the fire pot on the settings from one to four.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 16, 2014)

The stove can have a combined EVL of up to 30.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 16, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Well there's the problem. The CB adjusts the air to the fire pot on the settings from one to four.



So that would explain why its kind of a bear to light initially when in number 3? (as recommended by the manual) 
I think its always on full bore.. that doesn't that sound right?

What is my EVL based on the numbers I gave? Keep in mind I forgot the last 90 outside that pointed the exhaust to the south and downwards slightly in yet another futile attempt to fix this issue.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 16, 2014)

I thought you were in easy range. I haven't practiced figuring EVLs for years. Need to get on that board. Last I heard they were $200 or so. Don't know if I have any spares and that shed has no lights where I stored spares.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 16, 2014)

This is the blower I have.. http://www.americanenergysystems.com/Stock/LibraryFiles/MF3650ExhaustBlower2-speed.pdf
Says 2 speed.. I have it hooked up so it runs the higher speed.

Also, how tight does the ash pan door have to be sealed?


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 16, 2014)

Never seen a stove have a real issue with a ash bin seal.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 17, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> The outside air kit has 3 inch piping. I attached a sweet picture. It isn't plugged, and I remember over the winter when I pulled the hose off the stove, plenty of COLD air was coming through it.
> 
> Regarding the fire pot picture, here's two I took and sent to AES in winter..
> There are two pictures of the flame at -5 outside. One with the draft knob out only slightly, the other with it out all the way.




I wanted a picture of your burn pot in its cradle in the stove and outside.  I am looking for warpage and air hole status. 

The exhaust air which you have now said doesn't change with heat output (which is a possible problem all on its own [some stoves run all out and need the damper to be adjusted at every heat setting]) likely should.  Is the exhaust blower connected to the correct wires in the harness at both the blower end and at the controller end.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 17, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> This is the blower I have.. http://www.americanenergysystems.com/Stock/LibraryFiles/MF3650ExhaustBlower2-speed.pdf
> Says 2 speed.. I have it hooked up so it runs the higher speed.
> 
> Also, how tight does the ash pan door have to be sealed?




The ash bin seal if gasket-ed should pass the same test as the door test.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 17, 2014)

Picture of wires for the exhaust fan and back of board for reference


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 17, 2014)

Here is a picture of the burn pot, seated. 

Also, AES says they will test my board for $35.. probably worth it, yes?


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 17, 2014)

Sounds good, but what will they charge you for a new one or if bad allow the service fee to be deducted from the purchase of another? I seen they had some with paint over spray for $148 +s&h. Before pulling the trigger on a new one PM me as I have a unused one as I pictured


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 17, 2014)

Take AES up on the test and you need to ream those holes at the bottom of that burn pot out you want all combustion air to come out below the pellet pile and not above it.  I can't tell if the pot is fully in its receptacle (cardle) but there should not be any air coming around on the outside of that burn pot.  My bucket of parts originally was pulling most of the burn air around the outside of the burn pot (remember my stove is not the same as yours but it operates the same way) which along with a gap at the top of the feed assembly caused major air flow issues and pile up.  That fire should be standing upright not the way that picture shows.  What are those two circular holes doing there?  I guess I best see if I can find my manual collection.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 17, 2014)

There is supposed to be a firebrick that covers the holes behind the pot. Might help to plug the holes the stirrer rides in.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 17, 2014)

In that case are you burning without the fire brick being installed?


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 17, 2014)

The stove is in a state of disassembly.. no worries there. I run the stirrer. 

Bioburner, that isn't the exhaust fan in your pic, or at least my definition of the exhaust fan. I'm talking about the other fan, the one that blows air out the chimney. Is that one supposed to be variable?

I have the plugs and the brick board installed when running.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 17, 2014)

How big should I make those fire pot holes, once they are clean? A few sizes bigger?


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 17, 2014)

The picture was to show how the exhaust fan is connected to the stoves wiring. Don't ask me why they run the electrical across from the control board. smokey had concerns that maybe the exhaust fan was improperly wired so a picture of properly wire unit I thought would get that ruled out for you.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 17, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> How big should I make those fire pot holes, once they are clean? A few sizes bigger?


I would hold off till you get the fan operating up and down with the feed switch. Stove if operating properly has no problem eating wood pellets.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 17, 2014)

Did the voltage test. Erratic readings, somewhat. Never saw a voltage below around 118, most of the time 122.8. It did fluctuate a few times but generally 122 to 123 volts. Seemed to change a few tenths when doing the switch. Waited a minute between changes as recommended by AES.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 17, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> How big should I make those fire pot holes, once they are clean? A few sizes bigger?



By reaming them out I am saying clean them, that picture shows them with build up inside some of the holes.  That restricts air flow through the pellet pile and forces the air to go around it.  Ash glued to the blades on the combustion blower reduces the airflow the stove.

These devices are extremely simple and how they burn assuming a properly functioning controller always boils down to airflow.  Inside that cover for the OAK I trust there is no flapper in it?  

Air flow is most often determined by how clean the passages are.  Over 80% of all pellet stove problems are caused by a dirty stove.

The airflow degrades the moment you start burning and in a used stove one can assume that it wasn't cleaned when you got it.   There are many, many posts on here that boil down to a dirty stove.  Other than the dirty stove you get installations that are not correct causing part of what remains.  Then there is fuel quality, pellets are not all the same.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 17, 2014)

10-4 Smokey. They will get cleaned as well, I hadn't got that far in the cleaning process yet.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 18, 2014)

Oh, and you are correct, no flapper in the OAK. Just a mesh


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Sep 18, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Oh, and you are correct, no flapper in the OAK. Just a mesh




Make certain that the mesh has decent openings in it as any mesh restricts air flow frost on a relatively small mesh can do in a burn.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 18, 2014)

They are probably centimeter square openings. I'll keep an eye on them.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Sep 19, 2014)

This may not be stock wiring? Not sure.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 19, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> This may not be stock wiring? Not sure.


I don't think that's factory Used stove conundrum. May very well explain why not proper fan control because the CB is fine. Attached picture is factory


----------



## Bobcat698 (Nov 18, 2014)

Good news, I did a few things to my stove and the situation seems to be fixed.
I did the following:

Thoroughly cleaned the stove (again)
Tightened up the hinge-side of the front door

Replaced the ash-pan gasket
Replaced the 3 inch chimney with all 4 inch pipe, pointing west and eliminated the 90 that pointed south
We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Bioburner (Nov 18, 2014)

Well the weather is cold enough for the testing


----------



## F4jock (Nov 18, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Good news, I did a few things to my stove and the situation seems to be fixed.
> I did the following:
> 
> Thoroughly cleaned the stove (again)
> ...


Have you considered extending the stack above the rooftop?


----------



## railfanron (Nov 18, 2014)

Listen to Smokey he may be on the right track. My neighbors west point did the same thing. Combustion air was leaking around the burn pot instead of going through it. It would load up on pellets on the higher settings. I put a gasket around the burn pot so the air can only go through the burn pot. Problem solved and the stove now burns all pellets cleanly with no loading ever no matter what the temp is.
Ron


----------



## smwilliamson (Nov 19, 2014)

Bobcat698 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was just curious if anyone had input in general about AES. I'm sure just like with anything else there's good stoves and there's your Wal Mart junk.. That's why I ask.


Ask me about AES, I think my love for the company and it's products has been well documented....(sarcasm)


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 19, 2014)

smwilliamson said:


> Ask me about AES, I think my love for the company and it's products has been well documented....(sarcasm)




Now, now Scott with a little patience, a bit of bubble gum, bailing wire, and a small piece of tin foil one can get just about any stove to burn right even the ones you don't love.


----------



## johneh (Nov 19, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Now, now Scott with a little patience, a bit of bubble gum, bailing wire, and a small piece of tin foil one can get just about any stove to burn right even the ones you don't love.


You forgot duct tape !


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 19, 2014)

johneh said:


> You forgot duct tape !



Bubble gum with a tin foil covering = redneck duct tape,  Bubble gum = redneck sealant, Tin foil rolled into a cylinder = redneck venting.

Rednecks don't need all that fancy stuff.


----------



## F4jock (Nov 19, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Bubble gum with a tin foil covering = redneck duct tape,  Bubble gum = redneck sealant, Tin foil rolled into a cylinder = redneck venting.
> 
> Rednecks don't need all that fancy stuff.


What! No WD-40!!??


----------



## Bioburner (Nov 19, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Bubble gum with a tin foil covering = redneck duct tape,  Bubble gum = redneck sealant, Tin foil rolled into a cylinder = redneck venting.
> 
> Rednecks don't need all that fancy stuff.


Yap, dn't need notin fancy ta keep da outhouse warm


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 19, 2014)

F4jock said:


> What! No WD-40!!??



Whatever for?  That stuff is dangerous, especially if us rednecks ever get to it.


----------



## Harvey Schneider (Nov 20, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> OAK and Exhaust should be on the same wall.


And, if possible, terminate the same distance from the building. Pressure from wind rises rapidly as the wind hits an obstruction.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Nov 27, 2014)

Just an update, its still burning great. It can heat the entire house, I've not had to turn on the propane furnace once yet. 
One night it was 5 degrees and with the stove maxxed out it was 71 degrees in the house the next morning. 2200 square foot bi-level.

I've burned 1.5 tons so far. This thing bothered me so bad that I'd stop using it for a week at a time because I was fed up with it, its nice to actually get some decent use out of it!

I probably have $2000-$2500 into fixing this stove.. its ridiculous. The main expense was the fresh air "scuttle" I had installed, then a high flow exhaust fan, a service call, etc. Insane. 

Finally glad its working though.


----------



## tjnamtiw (Nov 28, 2014)

Good to hear! 
It's kind of like taking your BMW to the dealer.  Just keep throwing money at it until you find out what was REALLY wrong with it.  I hope you kept all the replaced parts for spares.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 6, 2015)

So.. its acting up again. If I turn it way down, scoop out the excess pellets, and let it clean out at a low setting, it'll be good to go again. 
I've even left the draft wide open (knob pulled all the way out) and it will still happen.
I'm pretty sure the ash holes are getting plugged and they can't clean out fast enough.. maybe a fuel issue? I don't know. Should I drill them out another size bigger?

Long story short... the problem isn't fixed, it will just burn better below 10 degrees, then do poorly and pile up below 0... so the problem range has moved down about 10 degrees.

Any thoughts?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 6, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> So.. its acting up again. If I turn it way down, scoop out the excess pellets, and let it clean out at a low setting, it'll be good to go again.
> I've even left the draft wide open (knob pulled all the way out) and it will still happen.
> I'm pretty sure the ash holes are getting plugged and they can't clean out fast enough.. maybe a fuel issue? I don't know. Should I drill them out another size bigger?
> 
> ...



Describe in gory detail exactly how you clean the stove.

When did you last do a deep clean and how many bags have you burned since.

There is a u shaped section in the exhaust pathway that plugs up and isn't the easiest to clean.


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 6, 2015)

There was a factory notice of changing-increasing hole sizes.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 6, 2015)

We did a deep clean on Friday evening, because I knew the cold was coming.

I pull out both slides under the firebox, pull up the two blocker plates vertically and set them outside the stove. 
Remove the stirrer, firepot, and brick board.
Next, I remove the 2 circular plugs behind the brick board.
I thoroughly tap on everything and scoot as much ash to the ash pan as possible with the tool and then with my fingers.
After that I take a 6 gauge copper wire (coated) and snake it up through the two holes behind the brickboard, both up and down, on both sides, banging it around.
Then, I dump the ash pan and start in with a vacuum to get any nooks and crannies with the needle nose attachment. Once the big stuff is out, I hook a hose to the end of the vacuum and shove that through as many places as it will go to get to the nooks and crannies.
After that, I reinstall everything and light it back up.

Every second deep cleaning I also clean the 4 inch chimney.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 6, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> There was a factory notice of changing-increasing hole sizes.



Any suggestions on what size I should change to?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 6, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> We did a deep clean on Friday evening, because I knew the cold was coming.
> 
> I pull out both slides under the firebox, pull up the two blocker plates vertically and set them outside the stove.
> Remove the stirrer, firepot, and brick board.
> ...




Chances are that you didn't get all of the mess out of that u location and might have pushed ash into it.   

It normally takes a high air flow device to really get to it.  

Don2222 has posted several threads on the AES stoves including one on getting that area clean.

If the factory modification biobunner is talking about applies  to your stove and the burn pot you have in it by all means make the change.  

But something tells me that will not be the end of it.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 6, 2015)

Which location, the one behind the brickboard?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 6, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Which location, the one behind the brickboard?




It is at the top of the stove IIRC Don had a video of how he was cleaning that area.


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 6, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> It is at the top of the stove IIRC Don had a video of how he was cleaning that area.


Wasn't that for the baby magnum?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 6, 2015)

I usually get behind the wall with a piece of coat hanger and really dig in and use the leaf blower to get things cleaned out well too. I once had to use a air hose too ,but that's a file from "what I need to clean it? "


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

I don't pay much attention to ity bitty differences in models.  

I am not one to just use a scraping or pushing motion when cleaning things that must end up going into other parts of the exhaust channels.

A good case on point is that the same basic exhaust path setup seems to be in use across the entire St. Croix line and there is a hard to clean area down low and between the ash trap clean out ports that in new incarnations they placed a third clean out port.

Xena always maintained that she got to those through the exhaust blower cavity with a shop vacuum.

MSmith66  was always trying to find the cutout diagram of that particular exhaust channel system.

Scraping and using a small length of hose and brushes and thumping moves the mess, then the questions are where did it all go and did I get it out of the stove?

If the mess was left in the stove over the summer and any moisture got to it is can really be stuck and by now after all the preaching that goes on here everyone should know that a good dosage of high air flow along with reapplication of elbow grease and all the devices of stove torture may be required.


----------



## tjnamtiw (Jan 7, 2015)

''There is a fresh air inlet pulling air from outside, and the damper works off the furnace blower..''  '' I cannot burn the stove at 3 or higher when the temperature is below 10 degrees''

These two statements from the initial post make no sense to me.  We have the OAK somehow being controlled by the furnace blower????  WHAT??
The second statement just goes against my common sense (debatable as far as my wife goes).  Saying that the outside temperature somehow controls the stove's burn quality INSIDE the house makes no sense UNLESS that OUTSIDE temperature is controlling the incoming air volume.  That leads back to this mystery damper.  Is it somehow being closed and choking off the supply of incoming air?  OR is there a fine mesh screen on the inlet of the OAK that is getting coated with ice as the temperature drops?  

The stove, sitting in the house, shouldn't give a crap what temperature is outside!  From the very beginning, this thread was missing one thing - LOGIC.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> ''There is a fresh air inlet pulling air from outside, and the damper works off the furnace blower..''  '' I cannot burn the stove at 3 or higher when the temperature is below 10 degrees''
> 
> These two statements from the initial post make no sense to me.  We have the OAK somehow being controlled by the furnace blower????  WHAT??
> The second statement just goes against my common sense (debatable as far as my wife goes).  Saying that the outside temperature somehow controls the stove's burn quality INSIDE the house makes no sense UNLESS that OUTSIDE temperature is controlling the incoming air volume.  That leads back to this mystery damper.  Is it somehow being closed and choking off the supply of incoming air?  OR is there a fine mesh screen on the inlet of the OAK that is getting coated with ice as the temperature drops?
> ...



The first post is a bit confusing, my apologies. However, it is clarified pretty well in post number 17 to show you how my fresh air "skuttle" is set up (separately from anything to do with the stove)

There is a fresh air inlet, for the stove alone. It has a mesh outside. It is not icing up. Two nights ago I removed the outside air hose from the back of the stove, to see if anything was affected. It didn't make much difference. I had to stuff a rag in it to keep the cold air from coming in. The stove damper has a slide that blocks more of the exhaust outlet when you push it in, and as you pull it out it, it increases the airflow pushed out the exhaust.

It will burn for days on end at 10 degrees plus. As soon as the temp drops, it has issues. No way around it. I don't no why, that's why I'm asking here. It doesn't seem logical.. but it does it!


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

Here is what my burn pot looks like after just 3-4 days in very cold weather. Bigger holes needed or something else?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 7, 2015)

That's not a OEM pot. Could be the problem. Heres picture of one out of stove that's OEM


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

It's OEM. 
In a stroke of brilliance a couple years ago I drilled some extra holes in the back piece under the pellet diverter to try to alleviate this issue. I purchased a brand new burn pot, compared it to the one I had, then returned it, as it was identical other than my custom holes.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Here is what my burn pot looks like after just 3-4 days in very cold weather. Bigger holes needed or something else?



Have you cleaned out those holes? 

And that warped section isn't going to help any, you end up with the burn air bypassing the pellet pile on the outside of the burn pot.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

Those additional holes above the original ones also rob air from the pellet pile.

What shape is the receptacle that burn pot sits in?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 7, 2015)

I was looking at the top and the area where the pot seals into the stove. Notice my picture shows a solid heavy upper skirt for a proper seal with welded corners. Maybe they had China produce a batch of pots.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

Yes, I clean them out during every thorough cleaning. 
Pictures attached.


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 7, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Yes, I clean them out during every thorough cleaning.
> Pictures attached.


You have a serious issue with the warping of the burn pot in the front and it not sealing properly.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> You have a serious issue with the warping of the burn pot in the front and it not sealing properly.


Bend it back and weld it up?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 7, 2015)

Can try but its going to be probably brittle.  If it don't work PM another me another message and I have a well made pot used.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

Or get a new one.

You might be able to use some gasket to seal that gap until your new one comes.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

Here's my sweet 40 second hammer temporary fix..


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

BTW, check out the pot picture in post #53.. Definitely warped more since then.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 7, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Here's my sweet 40 second hammer temporary fix..



I think it will likely deform again.

But you can give it a try..  Burn pots go to hell fast under a pileup the pot becomes part of a smithies forge.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 7, 2015)

For sure, that's why I said "temporary" 

I'll run it a bit and see what happens with it. Just that little gap can really screw things up, airflow wise eh?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 7, 2015)

Your dealing with vacuum and is a pain. Try getting a water pump primed with a small leak and you will know what I mean.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2015)

Hell one foot over on 3" vent or a little dip instead of the required rise in the horizontal portions of the vent system can cause all kinds of trouble.

I've been there with the pile up and burn pot destruction situation.  I was also thinking that clinker collecting was a hobby sideline to running a pellet stove.

People consider us to be a pita on installation and cleaning.

I wonder why?


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

Here's my stove, less than 12 hours of burn time after a thorough cleaning. Temp was between -19 and -2 all night.


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Here's my sweet 40 second hammer temporary fix..


Amazed you got away with that but it will likely warp again. Getting a backup?


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 8, 2015)

Fire should be rolling up straight


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Fire should be rolling up straight


Maybe it's working well enough to get him by until he can get another.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm ready to do whatever it takes to fix it.. You guys pretty sure the burn pot is the issue now?


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> I'm ready to do whatever it takes to fix it.. You guys pretty sure the burn pot is the issue now?


Well, is it heating / working better since your "fix?"


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

As you can see by the pictures I just posted, no.  Same pile, different day.


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> As you can see by the pictures I just posted, no.  Same pile, different day.


Flame looks lazyish. Where is your draft pot set? As Smokey and Bio pointed out, a small vacuum leak in the burnpot area can do that as well.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

You mean the draft knob? It's pulled out 1/4 inch or so. When I went to bed it was burning fine. Obviously not anymore, but the firepot is darn near plum full..


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

hoverwheel said:


> Last winter I had a new pellet stove that would build up a big pile of unburned pellets and choke. In the spring I took it outdoors and used a leaf blower to super clean everything.
> 
> It took an hour and unreal amounts of billowing ash, but it ran like new again.
> 
> ...





Bobcat698 said:


> You mean the draft knob? It's pulled out 1/4 inch or so. When I went to bed it was burning fine. Obviously not anymore, but the firepot is darn near plum full..


If you can't get a more straight flame you either have a vacuum or draft problem. The vacuum problem could be thorny. Lots of possible causes. The draft problem, well, after all you've done the only thing I can think of is exhaust size. One other question: If I read you right the problem exists when the temp goes below 10f but nothing else is changed, including feed rate?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2015)

It should be in stock configuration to start with so that needs to be remedied.

Given how it is burning I'd expect that the stove is fouling its combustion air path at a very good rate.

Until then I'd be looking throughout the stove for bad gaskets (test them, don't just look at them).  

I'd also be looking around all seams between the fire box and the outside world.  

In other stoves there have been bolts or screws come loose and the joints that need to be gas tight no longer are.

Even things you might not think of such as auger flight covers have caused problems with air flow by not being sealed well enough.

Joints loosening in the feed system have also caused problems with air flow leading to bad burns.

Even missing shipping bolt hole covers have been known to cause such issues.

A plugged up heat exchanger, too much stack back pressure,  a failing or undersized combustion blower.  Crap being pushed into an area already cleaned while cleaning the next section (a compelling case for high air flow devices being used after and during cleaning).

In stoves that have a fixed combustion blower run speed like a lot of Breckwells, failure to properly adjust the damper for burning when you change the heat range (aka fuel feed rate).

Crap in the air intake path, frost or ice growth on too fine an OAK screen.  

Man the list never ends.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

F4jock said:


> If you can't get a more straight flame you either have a vacuum or draft problem. The vacuum problem could be thorny. Lots of possible causes. The draft problem, well, after all you've done the only thing I can think of is exhaust size. One other question: If I red ypu right the problem exists when the temp goes below 10f but nothing else is changed, including feed rate?



Well, I do try to leave it on a higher settings in the colder weather to keep the house warmer, but as of last year, yes, the problem occurs on level 3 at 5 degrees but not at 15 degrees. 

The pictures posted reflect about 8 hours of burning at level 5. I'm not sure if the same thing would happen at level 3..havent tried.


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Well, I do try to leave it on a higher settings in the colder weather to keep the house warmer, but as of last year, yes, the problem occurs on level 3 at 5 degrees but not at 15 degrees.
> 
> The pictures posted reflect about 8 hours of burning at level 5. I'm not sure if the same thing would happen at level 3..havent tried.


OK. If you are increasing the feed rate and then getting overflow you are not getting enough air to burn your pellets. See Smokey's last post for possible reasons. I'm starting to think your vent is too small.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

F4jock said:


> OK. If you are increasing the feed rate and then getting overflow you are not getting enough air to burn your pellets. See Smokey's last post for possible reasons. I'm starting to think your vent is too small.



Ok. It is a 3 inch oak.


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Ok. It is a 3 inch oak.


Not the OAK, the stack. Essentially exhaust constipated.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 8, 2015)

Ok. Stack is 4 inch. I have the high output exhaust fan blower. 
BTW I can leave the draft knob pulled all the way out and it will still pile up overnight.


----------



## Bioburner (Jan 8, 2015)

Stove is not rated to burn corn on a setting of 5 for more than the daily high fire of ten to 15 minutes to help clean the passages.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2015)

Bobcat698 said:


> Ok. Stack is 4 inch. I have the high output exhaust fan blower.
> BTW I can leave the draft knob pulled all the way out and it will still pile up overnight.



Having the draft all the way open is an invitation to pile up as well as having it all the way closed.

Starting at the stove would you please list every piece of pipe in the vent system along with its length and whether it is horizontal or vertical.

I already know it is 4", along with that information I also need the length of the OAK and how it is routed to its outside termination and a picture of that termination.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Stove is not rated to burn corn on a setting of 5 for more than the daily high fire of ten to 15 minutes to help clean the passages.



Ah, another on the list of high fire exception conditions..


----------



## F4jock (Jan 8, 2015)

Did I miss the corn burning somewhere?


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 8, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Did I miss the corn burning somewhere?



I don't think so, I believe that bioburner was just stating one of the stoves limitations. 

It is good to know about because it indicates that either the combustion or convection air flow can't keep up with the feed system under certain conditions. 

St. Croix (stoves) also doesn't support prolonged burning at flat out.


----------



## Harvey Schneider (Jan 8, 2015)

Something was making that flame blow sideways. Gravity only makes flames go up. So where is the wind that is driving the flame to the side coming from? It has to be either a leak or air swirling off the opening at the edge of the firepot.


----------



## Bobcat698 (Jan 11, 2016)

Just an update, I bought a good used firepot from BioBurner and everything seemed a lot better. Now I'm having control board issues, I think.


----------



## donkais6 (Feb 9, 2016)

Bobcat698- Has the "new" firepot held up well and alleviated the problems you were having? My friend and I have the same stove as you and we have the same issue. It simply feeds too fast I think. I just started burning with it and it had never been used before and it gives me headaches every time I set it on 3 or higher. My burn pot is brand new and the same thing happens. I just came across this thread and was wondering if there was anything else you had come up with to help seeing as your previous remedies hadn't worked out.


----------



## Bioburner (Feb 9, 2016)

Someone had modified Bobcats original pot as well as it was not seating properly if my memory recalls and the used original pot solved his problem. Bobcat got back to me about another issue and I hopefully set him down the proper path as I have not heard from him again.
Have you pulled out the draft slide a bit to increase the air into the stove?


----------



## donkais6 (Feb 9, 2016)

that is good to hear. I have not tried that yet. It is only the three bolts that are loosened, correct?


----------



## donkais6 (Feb 9, 2016)

Also, what if there is not one on the unit?


----------

