# Wet Wood? Icicles and no gasification.



## infinitymike (Feb 9, 2013)

I cant believe what I saw this morning!

Icicles on flue stack!

Heres a video of what happened yesterday. I moved into a pile of ash that was c/s/s somewhere in July/Aug/Sept I can't really remember. I resplit some and its between 23 and 26% MC. I know my first season I burned wood with MC than that and had the same type of "steamy smoke" but never had icicles.


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## Fred61 (Feb 9, 2013)

Yup it's too wet but if your moisture meter is anywhere close to accurate your wood gun should handle it. Have you checked for an obstruction such as a plugged cyclone or an overfilled tube? I think most woodburners that have a few years of heating under their belt would tell you that wood split in the summer is too wet to burn the next winter.

Most people describe their wood drying by how many summers their hoard has dried but they don't give winter any credit. SUBLIMATION: When you look real close in the molecular range those little molecules of water are dancing and jumping whether thawed or frozen. They jump a little higher and faster when the surrounding air is warm and not so much when it's cold. Some land back on the wood and some are absorbed by the air. Now in Vermont the air is rain forest wet in the summer and desert dry in the winter. The summer air which is more saturated absorbs a good amount of these little rascals but the winter air is more of a blotter even though it has fewer dancing water molecules to attack.

EDIT: This is why your ice cubes keep getting smaller in your freezer if you don't make enough margaritas.


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## avc8130 (Feb 9, 2013)

Mike,

As we have been discussing, I think you need to clear your refractory tubes.  My wife had some troubles while I was gone with a wet chimney and when I inspected the boiler I found virtually clogged refractory tubes which I think brought gassification to a standstill.

ac


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2013)

I get icicles on my chimney something like that when burning in a snowstorm.

I didn't think it was anything more than the snow melting as it hit the warm chimney top, then re-freezing into icicles as it ran down.

I'd say that's what yours is, just from what I've seen mine do - but if you're not gassifying, that's another issue.


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## BoilerMan (Feb 9, 2013)

I like it Fred! I do alot of c/s/s in the fall and by spring time that wood is split at the ends and has droped in mc considerably. I know people who hang clothes out to dry in winter, they say the colder the faster things dry. I monitor relitive humidity and temp as they coincide, in the winter it's in the 20% range here, meaning at -XX degrees that air can take on 80% more moisture than it currently has in it. Thats why when you throw a boiling cup of water into the air when it's fridgid it never hits the ground!

Conversly, in the summer with average humidity in the 70-80% range here in NM, that air can't take on moisture near as fast, although the heat and sun make the wood want to give it up faster. That is my limited understanding anyway.

Mike, your hoard should be much better next year, do you have any Silver (soft) Maple or other faster drying woods in the stacks to burn till spring? Personally, I'd burn oil and not gum things up too bad in the WG. If you don't find any plugged air tubes, I'm not familiar with the WG air induction system. Those little elves don't like all that smoke in there  they may be on strike.
BTW Mike, I really like your sig!

TS


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## Fred61 (Feb 9, 2013)

I guess I forgot to mention that the flame over the fire that I saw in your video was burning gasses which caused me to believe you have an obstruction. When you closed the door those gasses should be forced down into your refractory tube and voila!gassing.


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## infinitymike (Feb 9, 2013)

maple1 said:


> I get icicles on my chimney something like that when burning in a snowstorm.
> 
> I didn't think it was anything more than the snow melting as it hit the warm chimney top, then re-freezing into icicles as it ran down.
> 
> I'd say that's what yours is, just from what I've seen mine do - but if you're not gassifying, that's another issue.


 
Thats a great explaination. And I will lean towards that answer more than what I was initially thinking, that it was the moisture in the smoke that was freezing.

I honestly don't know if I was gasifing or not. I never checked. More of a shock value statement more than anything else.


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## infinitymike (Feb 9, 2013)

I have found that if I have too deep a bed of coals (3-4") and reload a lot  of splits on top that I don't get the proper stack temps or good gasification.

I think the moisture meter is relatively accurate and I don't see why 23% mc would cause so much steam.

Isn't it recommended to get down to that MC?


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## Fred61 (Feb 9, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> I don't see why 23% mc would cause so much steam​


 Cold outside air! Temps in the teens and single numbers make mine steam also.


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## infinitymike (Feb 9, 2013)

TS,

Thanks for liking the sig.
I'm NOT one for political debates and I believe in the last line of your sig.
BUT, I am concerned for the future of the country and believe that the founding fathers of this great country had the God given insight of the potential dangers, which are coming to fruition.

OK enough out of me. Maybe I go over to the ash room.....NAAA 

As far as my hoard being good for next year may not be so true. All I have is red oak that was c/c/s in Jan/12 and all I'm splitting now is red oak.
Its bitter sweet knowing that I will have great btu's but also knowing that I may not realize those btu's anytime soon.


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Here's a pic I took of my chimney the day after a snow:






It's way up in the air and I took it with my cell real quick - so not the best pic. I thought I only took it couple weeks ago, but the date on the file is New Years Day. There should be icicles growing on it again today - but there might be too much wind for it, and I haven't looked at it yet. The only time I see an icicle is after a snow.

I get steam out my stack on every startup or loading no matter how dry my wood is. Even if dried to the optimum, there's still some moisture in the wood, and it has to go somewhere. It shows up real good in this cold weather we've been having lately.


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## Fred61 (Feb 9, 2013)

Moisture is a byproduct of combustion. Gas and oil heaters also steam. Even condensing boilers and furnaces steam. I know, I had someone call the fire department on me when they saw what they thought was smoke coming from a pvc pipe exiting the side of a building I was working on.


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Yes indeed - I actually think my parents new Buderus oil boiler steams more than my gassifying wood boiler most of the time. Or looks like at least as much. There is also at least a little bit of moisture/humidity in the intake combustion air that has to go out the smoke stack as well.

Did you check out that refractory tube thing that avc mentioned?


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Ventured outside. Here's another from 15 minutes ago:






I guess icicles will form here in blizzard winds too.

Gratuitous storm pic, while I was at it:


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## avc8130 (Feb 9, 2013)

I went to Smokeless Heat last weekend and he took us out to see 2 Vedo's running.  The Vedo Lamba steamed the ENTIRE time it was running.  The salesman and the owner both said it was 100% "normal".  I felt better about my WG operation.

ac


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2013)

Did you watch it through an entire burn cycle?

That last pic I posted is in the middle of one - no steam.

My friend here with the Woodgun had steam coming out his chimney too last time I was there, and he indicated that was normal. Infinitymike posted a vid of his steaming. Not sure what your point was - they all steam at some point. Yours doesn't? Whatever makes you feel better with your WG I guess....


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## avc8130 (Feb 9, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Did you watch it through an entire burn cycle?
> 
> That last pic I posted is in the middle of one - no steam.
> 
> My friend here with the Woodgun had steam coming out his chimney too last time I was there, and he indicated that was normal. Infinitymike posted a vid of his steaming. Not sure what your point was - they all steam at some point. Yours doesn't? Whatever makes you feel better with your WG I guess....


 
We hung out with 2 boilers. 

Vedolux 37 installed with 500 Gallons located in a "bunker" outside of the saleman's brother's house.  This boiler smoked/steamed only during the first ~20 mins we were there and then ran relatively smoke free for the rest of the ~hour we spent there.

Vedolux Lambda installed in a garrage with 1k Gallons.  This boiler steamed the entire ~hour we spent there.  Both the owner of the boiler and the salesman said this was completely normal.  The salesman has a Lambda in his house and said it steamed the entire burn cycle. 

Steam has a lot to do with flue temp.  I think the Lambda runs at a much lower flue temp in order to get those claimed efficiencies. As the flue temp is lower, it is closer to the condensation point.

ac


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## infinitymike (Feb 10, 2013)

Well needless to say the steam did go away. And I know from previous experience that it would.
As far as it gasifing or not, I cant actually say because I never looked.
I guess I was just in a pissy whiney pity party. I mean we did just have 24" of snow dump on us!
And that means to me is WORK WORK WORK all UNPAID WORK.

WA WA WA call me a WAMBULANCE


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## infinitymike (Feb 10, 2013)

Its not so convenient  to see if a WG is gasifing. When the door to the gasification tube is opened the draft is interrupted and gasification stops.
I can just crack the door open and get a little peek.


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## avc8130 (Feb 10, 2013)

It's ok Mike.  We are all a little emotional about our wood burning.  

ac


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## avc8130 (Feb 10, 2013)

Don't feel bad Mike.  I let my boiler run out of wood this morning since I knew it would be a good solar heating day.  I scraped all of the ash I could out of the wood chamber and started a new fire.  I can hear the roar, but when I look at my stack...straight steam.  

ac


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## Floydian (Feb 10, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Its not so convenient to see if a WG is gasifing. When the door to the gasification tube is opened the draft is interrupted and gasification stops. I can just crack the door open and get a little peek.


 
The flip side is having a 3"x 5" window into the secondary chamber(Vedolux 37). This can definitely lead to obsessive, compulsive boiler behavior! (its not disorder, right?.....right?)

Noah


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## Clarkbug (Feb 10, 2013)

Floydian said:


> The flip side is having a 3"x 5" window into the secondary chamber(Vedolux 37). This can definitely lead to obsessive, compulsive boiler behavior! (its not disorder, right?.....right?)
> 
> Noah


 
It might be, just a little OCBB.  Speaking of which I need to go clean the boiler, and that little window.  My view is getting obstructed!


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## avc8130 (Feb 10, 2013)

Clarkbug said:


> It might be, just a little OCBB. Speaking of which I need to go clean the boiler, and that little window. My view is getting obstructed!


 
I think that little window was the coolest feature of the Vedos.  The Lambda didn't have the window and the distributor tried to add one but couldn't get a piece of glass that wouldn't crack.

ac


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## __dan (Feb 10, 2013)

Pretty much always looks like that. Almost never invisible but the flue pipe inside the house runs ~ 125 to 140 deg F surface temp, easily touchable. Couple of pieces of softwood on the coal bed, max turndown, low fire. Its varies a lot with the outside humdity, currently 33% rh. same output makes a good cloud above 80% rh.

If I get the tank I want, have my eye on adding a flue gas condenser next to the Froling.


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## __dan (Feb 10, 2013)

The Froling is reading deg C, that 132 C is 270 F. It is only that high because of the fresh add of a few softwood splits. Usually runs 110 to 120 deg C (248 F).


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## avc8130 (Feb 10, 2013)

I would expect to see steam at those low temps.  Which is why I think the WG and Lambda's steam.  Low flue temp means instant condensation when the hot gasses exit the chimney into the cold air.

ac


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## infinitymike (Feb 10, 2013)

The best way to tell if a WG is gasifing is to put a probe in the back door. 
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-woodgun-doing-its-thing.94245/#post-1241654
Although it would be nice if we could put a view port


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## avc8130 (Feb 10, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> The best way to tell if a WG is gasifing is to put a probe in the back door.
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-woodgun-doing-its-thing.94245/#post-1241654
> Although it would be nice if we could put a view port


 
I wonder if we could get away without drilling the hole and just run the lead through the rope gasket.  Think it would survive? 

I tried a bare thermocouple lead...it didn't survive.


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## infinitymike (Feb 11, 2013)

avc8130 said:


> I wonder if we could get away without drilling the hole and just run the lead through the rope gasket. Think it would survive?
> 
> I tried a bare thermocouple lead...it didn't survive.


I don't know. Would the cable/wire bend and get damaged?


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## avc8130 (Feb 11, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> I don't know. Would the cable/wire bend and get damaged?


 
I'm more worried about the cable/wire disintegrating in the extreme temps.


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## BoilerMan (Feb 11, 2013)

I have the same "no secondary window sindrome" in my Attack.  I've been thinking of drilling a hole large enough for a 1/2" piece of iron pipe.  Then putting a little round of ceramic glass on the outside end of the pipe, seems like the only problem would be keeping the ash out of the pipe.  I don't know, I'm still thinking about it though.

TS


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## infinitymike (Feb 11, 2013)

I would really love to have a full glass view of the firebox and the gasification tube. I mean c'mon this 2013. 

Oh I know why, because then we would all have them in our living rooms.
Somehow I don't think copper pipes and circ pumps would fit the decor of the room.


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## willyswagon (Feb 12, 2013)

I have found that the larger the load of wood, the more icicles I get. I guess it makes sense if you take 20% moisture as an example.
If i put 25 lbs of wood in the fire box it has to send 6.25 lbs of water up the stack.
If I put 75 lbs of wood in there it has to send 18.75 lbs of water up the stack.

Because the water is all evaporating at the same time it must be causing a large amount of vapour to be exitng the stack at the same time. Large amount of water vapour hitting a cold surface= condensation and freezing(think of our house windows on a cold day).
I find that the ice is only there during the early part of the burn (about 1-1.5 hrs) after I just added wood.
It seems to drop off the flue after that.


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## PassionForFire&Water (Feb 12, 2013)

__dan said:


> If I get the tank I want, have my eye on adding a flue gas condenser next to the Froling.


 
Flue gas condensor?
Please tell us more
Make, model, efficiency gain, ... .


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## __dan (Feb 12, 2013)

PassionForFire&Water said:


> Flue gas condensor?
> Please tell us more
> Make, model, efficiency gain, ... .


 
Homemade. I expect to get the tank scrap, pipe the flue to the top, continue the flue out from the bottom, and drill a small hole in the bottom for the condensate to drip out to a trap. I was thinking along the line of two 50 gallon propane tanks in series, or a salvage takeout from work - extra heavy steel DHW heat exchanger, 6 ft tall, 30" diameter, lifetime steel wall thickness.

I have a 12 ft. sideways throw of inside flue pipe, space to ceilng mount two propane tanks, or floorstanding adjacent to the Froling if I get one bigger tank.

I am not concerned about corrosion. If it rots through in 15 or 20 years it goes to the scrapyard, where it was going before I intercepted it. If it corrodes through, yank it and swap in another scrap, salvage unit. I am thinking just ignore the ash and gum from the condensate, just a filter that lets the H2O out the bottom, and treat the tank as a limited lifetime wear item. When it gets futzed, scrap the tank and put another in.

The idea would be to just waste out the heat from condensation into the basement, which would be bad in the summer but not excessively with a small fire for DHW. I would need some type of filter for the condensate water so the condensate pump runs cleanly.

If the industry advances to the point this becomes manufacturer supplied and supported, you may in the future have the option of trading the cost of the stainless UL HT 103 all fuel flue for the condenser and venting with PVC, like condensing gas boilers. For now, I would continue out through the existing stainless all fuel flue for code. A manufacturers unit would need a way to separate the ash and gum from the H2O and be cleanable. This shows the market is still not fully mature.

If you look at something like the Weil McLain Ultra gas boiler, they use a V shaped downdraft aluminum block heat exchanger and just collect the condensate at the bottom. Something simple.

The Froling is draft induced. Removing the bulk of the H2O from the flue draft should be an improvement.


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## PassionForFire&Water (Feb 12, 2013)

__dan said:


> Homemade. I expect to get the tank scrap, pipe the flue to the top, continue the flue out from the bottom, and drill a small hole in the bottom for the condensate to drip out to a trap. I was thinking along the line of two 50 gallon propane tanks in series, or a salvage takeout from work - extra heavy steel DHW heat exchanger, 6 ft tall, 30" diameter, lifetime steel wall thickness.
> 
> I have a 12 ft. sideways throw of inside flue pipe, space to ceilng mount two propane tanks, or floorstanding adjacent to the Froling if I get one bigger tank.
> 
> ...


 
What is the flue gas temperature range on your Froling wood gasifier? Model?
If you know the airflow (better smokeflow) you can get an idea of what you will be able to reclaim.


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## CTFIRE (Feb 12, 2013)

I was getting icicles too. I think it is a combo snow and ice and the steam from the WG. Was happy to see this thread as it was nice to know it wasn't just me.


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## infinitymike (Feb 12, 2013)

CTFIRE said:


> I was getting icicles too. I think it is a combo snow and ice and the steam from the WG. Was happy to see this thread as it was nice to know it wasn't just me.


 
Hey glad to be of help. thats why  I throw this stuff out there. 
I'm not gonna act like I got it all figured out. 
And even if past experiences proved to be different and I should be concerned, if its happening now I want to see why.
And I trust that I will get good feedback from this place.

How ya doing up there? We got pounded with 24" how 'bout you?


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## CTFIRE (Feb 12, 2013)

infinitymike said:


> Hey glad to be of help. thats why I throw this stuff out there.
> I'm not gonna act like I got it all figured out.
> And even if past experiences proved to be different and I should be concerned, if its happening now I want to see why.
> And I trust that I will get good feedback from this place.
> ...


 
34 inches here. Things are good. Had an incident with my woodgun as well, but was too embarrassed to post. I had a blockage in the transition from my horizontal run into the main stack. I had cleaned out the other sections, but not this one connection i overlooked. Popped every seam on the 26 gauge steel and filled the basement with smoke a week ago at midnight. Not good when a fireman has to call his own fire dept for a possible chimney fire. Very stressful evening caused by poor maintenance on my part.  Ash is getting past my cyclone and collecting in the pipe. I think I need to clean it monthly going forward.


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## willyswagon (Feb 12, 2013)

The exact thing happened to a buddy of mine's WG about a month ago.
Fire Dept came down just to make sure.


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## avc8130 (Feb 12, 2013)

I just serviced mine.  Fair amount of fly ash in the horizontal run and in the chimney clean out.  No wonder WG suggests you use cleanouts instead of elbows!

ac


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## Frozen Canuck (Feb 12, 2013)

__dan said:


> have my eye on adding a flue gas condenser next to the Froling.


 
Not to rain on your parade or tell you what to do but I would avoid this particular temptation. Reason being that even if it works (physics says its possible) what do you do with the condensate that will likely be classified as hazardous waste? Toxic sludge basically from a cord wood fired appliance. No one is going to want you dumping that anywhere near them. Not sure what disposal of hazardous waste costs in your area, here it's high. Then there is the accelerated corrosion of the appliance flue/chimney to consider & cost out. Was the appliance ever designed to be operated in a condensing mode? The cooler the exhaust gets the more resistance it will offer to the fan doing the pushing. Is the fan designed to resist this higher level of corrosion? Plenty of factors to consider when moving from conventional or draft induced/assisted to condensing.


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## Gasifier (Feb 12, 2013)

CTFIRE said:


> 34 inches here. Things are good. Had an incident with my woodgun as well, but was too embarrassed to post. I had a blockage in the transition from my horizontal run into the main stack. I had cleaned out the other sections, but not this one connection i overlooked. Popped every seam on the 26 gauge steel and filled the basement with smoke a week ago at midnight. Not good when a fireman has to call his own fire dept for a possible chimney fire. Very stressful evening caused by poor maintenance on my part.  Ash is getting past my cyclone and collecting in the pipe. I think I need to clean it monthly going forward.



Ct,

I have found the best way to avoid this is to check your ash cyclone every other day or so and be sure it is not plugged just above the ash pan. If the ash can not get down into the pan it gets forced further along the the pipe and settles in. I have done away with almost all horizontal piping. And with keeping the bottom of the cyclone unplugged I have greatly reduced any build up of ash in my pipe from cyclone to vertical chimney.


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## __dan (Feb 12, 2013)

Frozen Canuck said:


> Not to rain on your parade or tell you what to do but I would avoid this particular temptation. Reason being that even if it works (physics says its possible) what do you do with the condensate that will likely be classified as hazardous waste? Toxic sludge basically from a cord wood fired appliance. No one is going to want you dumping that anywhere near them. Not sure what disposal of hazardous waste costs in your area, here it's high. Then there is the accelerated corrosion of the appliance flue/chimney to consider & cost out. Was the appliance ever designed to be operated in a condensing mode? The cooler the exhaust gets the more resistance it will offer to the fan doing the pushing. Is the fan designed to resist this higher level of corrosion? Plenty of factors to consider when moving from conventional or draft induced/assisted to condensing.


 
It is much in the future or never and a fix for a problem that I do not have. The basement is already running warm, radiant in the floor, and I cannot imagine how much useable waste heat I would get from two tanks running a passive surface temp of 110 deg F or so. They would have to be right under my bed for me to get the heat. I am getting condensation in the outside riser of stainless UL all fuel that collects and drips out the bottom cleanout cap of the tee. Have seen a little ice mound under it, less than the size of a gallon of milk. It washes the inside and the wet ash collects in the cleanout cap, very small quantity. Most of the ash has been staying in the secondary chamber of the Froling and I've taken out 7 gallons ash (three 2 gallon trips) from the boiler since October. I've been checking it and it's clean right now.

It was mainly a concern for if wood got scarce and all I had was an arm load of wood to keep from freezing or burning the furniture. A condenser between the boiler and the flue would also keep the mess in one place and the flue a lot cleaner, but it's staying clean now.

There would be no change to the Froling, which is running with the LK Acaso 810 loading unit and stays fully above the condensing temp. I just brushed the secondary chamber after 3 months running and the factory steel came right up with one swipe. Looked at the top of the firetubes at the fan chamber and there was nothing worrysome, just light grey ash coating.

I know there will be unforseeable issues. I see three components to handle, separation of H2O, very fine dusty ash, and some tar. The concern would be the accumulation of flammables, and the weight of the tank with a ten year collection of fine ash and some, minimal, tar varnish. If a 50 gallon steel tank lights off the tar inside it, it is not going to burn through, and it seems to be slow burning. I see it accumulating but not lighting off.

The H2O condensate is not a disposal hazard. Maybe slightly acidic with some ash minerals. Disposal hazards are usually solvents and heavy metals. Coal ash may be a problem, not clean firewood.

I think a cordwood flue gas condenser could be taken to the next level with some experience and factory engineering. Could get into patentable ideas. I'm sure the geometry of the condenser chamber makes a difference, easy separation of H2O from ash would be necessary. The chamber would have to be rated for a residue burnout, but it should not have a fire, that's what the secondary gasification chamber is for. Remember, the stainless HT 103 flue is several thousand dollars that could otherwise be invested in a listed condensing accessory and PVC vent, when the products and the code approvals mature, like they are for gas condensing boilers. IMO, that would be an objective. The condenser could be a preheater for DHW or low temp return water. Not needing a chimney would be an advantage.

It's an area that calls for investment and a huge market. I'm a bit afraid that if everyone on oil switched over to wood, there would be no standing trees anywhere. There is a market for more expensive, more efficient equipment, trading capital in equipment for fuel and labor.


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## infinitymike (Feb 12, 2013)

Gasifier said:


> Ct,
> 
> I have found the best way to avoid this is to check your ash cyclone every other day or so and be sure it is not plugged just above the ash pan. If the ash can not get down into the pan it gets forced further along the the pipe and settles in. I have done away with almost all horizontal piping. And with keeping the bottom of the cyclone unplugged I have greatly reduced any build up of ash in my pipe from cyclone to vertical chimney.


 
Thats is absolutely true. I have 10 feet of straight pipe off the cyclone to the top of the cap. If the pan get full , I will fine black ash debris on the grass. Its even more noticeable on the white snow.
i've even seen small chunks the size of a kidney bean on the ground. 

I empty the ash pan everyday. it doesn't hurt.


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## Duetech (Feb 17, 2013)

One of the things forgotten with marginal M/C (edit: and cold wood) is atmospheric moisture content. The two high moisture sources combined can raise havoc with proper gasification requirements. Once steam/moisture starts rolling around in a gasifier primary combustion chamber it takes some time to get it out. Every time the steam condenses and rolls town to the coals it explodes into steam again but it also cools down the fire (like raining on the parade) and will eventually make its way through the cooled fire to the exhaust avenue of the chimney where it can condense again and make icicles. Cold wood in a warm boiler and heated high moisture air make a condensation collector out of the wood (until it finally warms up) and it sits right on top of the coals that you expect heat out of. A sneak counter attack for that is a couple of boiler loads worth of low moisture wood in a dry warm place saved for "emergencies"(i.e. basically a boiler re-light with the right stuff). It's kind of like the cavalry in the old westerns coming to the rescue. I have a Portage and Main Optimizer 250 which is an outdoor gasifier and as long as the wood is dry the 240 gallons of on board storage can take the hit of high moisture air and cold wood and keep the gasification humming.


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## AaronM (Feb 25, 2015)

Old thread, but glad it's here!!

On day 2 of burning in my EKO 40.  Woke up this morning to find light brown colored icicles dripping from the the clean out tee.  Made the mistake of touching them... now my hands smell amazing... 

Wood moisture also around the 20 to 25% range, gassing still happens.  Little creosote in the primary burn chamber, and tubes appear clean.  Did not stop the full on freak out though!  

Uninsulated shed, 3 feet insulated stainless from boiler to cleanout Tee, and 12 more feet of 6" stainless from the Tee up past the roof.  I guess some consistent -19C/-4F will do this... insulated or not.  Any merit in insulating the shed?  It houses my emergency 2 bush cords of wood, but that's it.


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