# Heating a pole barn for the winter



## mcdanie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

Greetings all!
We are building a pole barn to park our camper in for the winter. The catch is that we will be living in the camper/pole barn as well 

The dimensions of the pb are 50'x50'. I am looking for a wood stove to heat with for the winter and came across the Osburn 2400. I like the reviews that I've seen so far on the Osburn but was wondering if anyone with first hand experience would recommend this stove for this application? I thought about soeveral other m ore utilitarian type stoves like the Fire Chief and such, but they just don't have the 'fireplace' feel like the stoves with the glass in the front. We will probably be congrating in and around the area where the stove will be quite a bit so being able to watch the flames is a big plus.

Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly apprecited.

Thanks,

Mac


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## oldspark (Dec 1, 2011)

You plan on heating the whole pole barn with no insulation?


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

That would be funny, wouldn't it? I knew I forgot something in the post. The pole barn will be insulated probably with 3" thick styrofoam sheets. That seems to be what the locals are using and it seems to work pretty well.

Thanks!


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## Heater Helper (Dec 1, 2011)

The Osburn should do a good job for you. I've seen good reviews on it.


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## wkpoor (Dec 1, 2011)

There are some old smoke dragons well suited to that environment or maybe look at the Elm but thats not a cheap alternative.


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## oldspark (Dec 1, 2011)

50 X50 =2500 sq ft so not that far out line with heating needs for a house correct?


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 1, 2011)

That is correct.


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## Backwoods Savage (Dec 1, 2011)

Welcome to the forum mcdanie1. It sounds like a good plan to me. Will you be installing some fans; perhaps ceiling fans?


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## wkpoor (Dec 1, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> 50 X50 =2500 sq ft so not that far out line with heating needs for a house correct?


Good point oldsparky, might even be easier since its one big open space. My neighbors machine shop is 40x80 and his Hutch Rebel heats it fantastically.


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## dumbodog00 (Dec 2, 2011)

It will be a lot easier to heat if there is a ceiling instead of being open up to the roof.


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## Danno77 (Dec 2, 2011)

Wait, are you living in a camper that's parked in a pole barn?

Anyway, 2500sq feet of a barn tall enough to have a camper in it is gonna be much harder to heat than a 2500 square foot house, but at least it's probably more of an open floor plan! BUT it all depends on where you are in the world. did I miss your location?

Edit: lebanon Ohio. Got it.


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## wkpoor (Dec 2, 2011)

My buds shop has 12' high ceiling and I'm telling you it is amazingly warm. I mean like 80 degrees when its 10 outside and blowing. I've seen his shop door open and him in there with a short sleeve tee shirt on behind the lathe 30' from the stove. So I know it can be done. Albeit he has a huge old smoke dragon providing the heat source.


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## oldspark (Dec 2, 2011)

Maybe he should have put Osburn 2400 in the thread title, I looked up the stove and I think it is up for the task or do you believe he needs a bigger stove.


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## kingquad (Dec 2, 2011)

I'd buy the big Drolet.  Large firebox like the Osburn, made by the same company (SBI), and cheaper.


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 3, 2011)

Thank you for all the responses! Now, to answer some questions and provide some background...

1. Yes, we will be living in a camper parked in a pole barn  Last may we lucked out and found some land located inside a 16,000 acre state forest. There only building on the property now is a horse stable (not big enough to live in). The property has lots of trees and a pond. We recently have added horses to the mix, hey we already had a stable right?, and we currently have our camper parked out there. We figured the camper is going to get a tight, wife and three kids, in the cold months of winter , but its a great place to sleep. So... If we build a pb and park the camper inside, we will make a living room and eating are inside the barn and have sleeping quarters in the camper. We don't want to build a house right away as we want to spend time there first and figure out where would be the best location and what type would work best. If we have the camper in a heated pb then we don't have to winterize it and will still have all the plumbing functionality built into the camper.

2. The pb will have 29 gauge metal on ceiling with insulation above.

After calling around locally, and from the dealers listed on the Osburn website my resources for an Osburn do not seem to be very plentiful. So I started doing research on other options and the Napoleon 1900 seems like a very good alternative. Judging from the numbers it may heat the space bit better than the Osburn 2400. Any thoughts on this? I know a guy locally that sells Napoleons and as well as couple other brands (Buck, etc...) Looks like he can get me the 1900with brushed nickel trim, blower, outside fresh air kit and the cook top option that replaces the trivet for $2300. I checked Dynamite Buys and they were $2100 for the same setup, but for $200 I will support the local guy. He is a one man sweep and is very easy to work with.

3. Yes, a couple ceiling fans are planned as well.

So what do you guys think?

Much appreciated,

Mac


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## Danno77 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can't hurt to try it!

I'm confused by this "found land in a sate park" thingy of which you speak. If it's a state park, then you can't build there, no? Or does the state park surround, but not include, this land?


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 3, 2011)

The land is surrounded on all four sides by state forest. What we have is privately owned, nicely nestled inside the SF boundaries. We lucked out! It a unique situation but if you look on maps.google.com at any given state forest, you will see they are green and if there is private land within the green, it will be white. Thats how it is here in Ohio anyways. And yes, because we own the land we can build basically whatever we like. Another bonus is that the county we are in does not have ANY type of building code requirements, unless you put in a septic system, then you must have that inspected. We were VERY surprised by all this, but we're rollin' with it


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## gasavage (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a 36 x 40 X 10 pole barn with r15 walls, r5 roof (I know I need more...planned), open rafters, with a concrete floor.  I have a NC30, with blower & ceiling fan, in there to take the chill off.  I find it easy to get the room temp to 55 from the mid 30's in few hours.  I don't heat it full time, only when I'm working on a project.  It's never been below 32 in there.....I make sure of that firing up the stove every now & then when the outdoor temps get into the teens.  The concrete floor is a BIG heat sink, thus it takes a while to warm up, then again a while to cool off.

What you're proposing is very doable.  The floor ( heat sink ) is what you'll be battling most. If you start early & stay ahead you'll be ok....it takes a while playing catch up if you're shooting for the 60 - 70 deg range.  A large, non cat stove, with blower, will be needed.  2 ceiling fans will assist in air movement.  Another suggestion...check into an epa wood furnace.

Here's an interior pic...no fire in stove


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## Danno77 (Dec 3, 2011)

mcdanie1 said:
			
		

> The land is surrounded on all four sides by state forest. What we have is privately owned, nicely nestled inside the SF boundaries. We lucked out! It a unique situation but if you look on maps.google.com at any given state forest, you will see they are green and if there is private land within the green, it will be white. Thats how it is here in Ohio anyways. And yes, because we own the land we can build basically whatever we like. Another bonus is that the county we are in does not have ANY type of building code requirements, unless you put in a septic system, then you must have that inspected. We were VERY surprised by all this, but we're rollin' with it


That sure sounds like a sweet deal!


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## oldspark (Dec 3, 2011)

That sounds like fun and you are one lucky man to find such a deal, gasavage has a good point about the concrete floor (i assume it is not insulated) and extra capacity with the wood burner will be a plus, the fact you have a large open area (my house is the same way) you will not roast your self out very easy so go big young man go big. How bad are the winters there?


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## Danno77 (Dec 3, 2011)

gasavage said:
			
		

> I have a 36 x 40 X 10 pole barn with r15 walls, r5 roof (I know I need more...planned), open rafters, with a concrete floor.  I have a NC30, with blower & ceiling fan, in there to take the chill off.  I find it easy to get the room temp to 55 from the mid 30's in few hours.  I don't heat it full time, only when I'm working on a project.  It's never been below 32 in there.....I make sure of that firing up the stove every now & then when the outdoor temps get into the teens.  The concrete floor is a BIG heat sink, thus it takes a while to warm up, then again a while to cool off.
> 
> What you're proposing is very doable.  The floor ( heat sink ) is what you'll be battling most. If you start early & stay ahead you'll be ok....it takes a while playing catch up if you're shooting for the 60 - 70 deg range.  A large, non cat stove, with blower, will be needed.  2 ceiling fans will assist in air movement.  Another suggestion...check into an epa wood furnace.
> 
> Here's an interior pic...no fire in stove


This is more what I figured it would be like for the OP. I wonder if it would be feasible to consider two stoves to get him there (and use during really cold temps) and the one big stove to hold it there.


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## oldspark (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope you have nice dry wood to burn.


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 3, 2011)

Pretty sure the furnaces require electricity to some degree, whereas a simple wood stove does not. I struggled with this part of the decision for some time, as radiant heat in the concrete floor sounds fantastic, but don't want to have to have electricity to run the pump. On an up side, the Nap 1900 appears to also have a cook top insert to replace the trivet and give you a cook surface in the event of a power outage.

Thank you,

Mac


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## oldspark (Dec 3, 2011)

That 1900 looks like a great stove and the fact you can get it in your area is a big plus but this one I like a lot (for your application) but have no idea what people think of these. http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model94nc.html


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## tcassavaugh (Dec 3, 2011)

"If we have the camper in a heated pb then we donâ€™t have to winterize it and will still have all the plumbing functionality built into the camper."

Mcdanie1, Just wondering....i noticed this in your post and that you need to have a septic system inspected. Do you have one yet....do you have a well to hook the camper to or pull water from or do you have to drive it to the local campground/drop off to empty your non grey-water materials. if you have to move it every couple of days...and you are in the middle of the state forest, you might have a problem with snow and getting out.

just a thought

cass


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 3, 2011)

No septic yet. Waiting to determine where the house will go. We are using a sawdust toilet. No moving the camper every couple days. Once the barn is in we will have a gutter system and use water from a rain catchment system.

I hadn't thought about insulating the floor of the pb. That would prolly be a great idea, wouldn't it? Prolly use some styrofoam panels, wouldn't you think?

Thanks,

M ac


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## tcassavaugh (Dec 3, 2011)

cool beans...i didn't know what they were or how they operated. pretty clever. when i was young, my grandparents, in rural upstate n.y. had a 3 holer out back. i remember helping move the outhouse one summer. not a fun chore. they should have used this meathod.
thanks for the enviornmental lesson. i could keep one on hand for when the power goes out and not worry about not having a well and having to keep a generator on hand......which brings up another question. will you have power? generator or power company lines. I know it can cost a fortune to run them if you have to pay for the line to be strung.

cass


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## oldspark (Dec 3, 2011)

mcdanie1 said:
			
		

> No septic yet. Waiting to determine where the house will go. We are using a sawdust toilet. No moving the camper every couple days. Once the barn is in we will have a gutter system and use water from a rain catchment system.
> 
> I hadn't thought about insulating the floor of the pb. That would prolly be a great idea, wouldn't it? Prolly use some styrofoam panels, wouldn't you think?
> 
> ...


 Is the pole barn built yet, and yes doing something with the floor would be a very good idea.


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes, electric is already run and no, the ph is not built yet. So we may be ahead of the curve on that one. Any thoughts on how the concrete floor should be insulated?

Mac


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## oldspark (Dec 4, 2011)

I read up on this years ago and do not think the basic facts have changed, you can insulate the perimeter of the slab to below the frost line and have it work well, in fact they claim the can be the best way to do it. Maybe some others have some thoughts but you can google it and I might also to see if that is still the best way to do it. 2 inches of the good foam insulation should do it.


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## wkpoor (Dec 4, 2011)

I built a 4 season room for my wife thats on a slab. Its poured over 2" of foam. The slab has pex in it for future heating of the floor.


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## oldspark (Dec 4, 2011)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> I built a 4 season room for my wife thats on a slab. Its poured over 2" of foam. The slab has pex in it for future heating of the floor.


 Yep if you know (or think) you will ever have heat in the floor you insulate under the floor but if you know you will just heat the air space you can insulate the outside of the slab.


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## dafattkidd (Dec 4, 2011)

mcdanie1, welcome to the forum.  Here's my two cents:  I bought an Osburn 2400 insert from dynamite buys around this time last year.  It is a great unit, and www.dynamitebuys.com have great service, with what I found to be the lowest price for inserts.  That being said, if I were you I'd be looking at an Englander NC30.  Similar sized firebox at a much lower price.  That Buck stove oldspark mentioned looks like a monster.  I'm nor sure what that sells for but it's worth looking into.  However I do respect your intent to support the local guy.  There is a lot of value in that.  I had a smaller Napoleon insert before my Osburn.  I really like the product.  It was just too small for my home.  

And lastly, I definitely recommend insulating that floor.  

Congrats on the purchase of the new land and good luck figuring out what to do with a house.  Sounds really exciting.


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## Martin Strand III (Dec 4, 2011)

I built a 40' x 60' x 12' steel pole barn w/concrete floor to live in a camper before the house was built 
and have learned a few things:

1.  It's easier to heat a small space than a large one.
  *  Insulation inside and/or outside the camper with inside heat (electric, "safe" LP heater) works well.

2.  The raw concrete floor will slurp up heat even if the walls and roof of the PB are insulated.
  *  Hence, refer to 1. above.

3.  Insulating a large building to spend 5% of your time in after your house is complete is a waste of money.
  *  Hence, refer to 1. above.

Aye,
Marty


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## oldspark (Dec 4, 2011)

Marty all good points but I have a berm house with a concrete floor with insulation around the outside, and it will suck up the heat but once you get it warm it serves as a heat sink and moderates the temps in the house. An uninsulated concrete floor just sucks heat.


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## Martin Strand III (Dec 4, 2011)

1.  But the PB:  what about time spent in v cost of insulation?
2.  Yes, insulation under a concrete floor is better than none.
         * House > PB (see 1. above) 

Aye,
Marty


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## mcdanie1 (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks for everyone's input! We will be going with the Napoleon 1900 and insulating the concrete floor with foam panels.

I will post pictures as the construction progresses!

Mac


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## Highbeam (Dec 5, 2011)

Just so you know, it is against the building codes and specifically the fire code to install a solid fuel burning device in a garage which a pole barn is if you have a drive in door.


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## woodmiser (Dec 5, 2011)

Here is how I insulated mine. I don't think I would want insulation under the main slab. Too soft.

The biggest mistake I made was not running floor heat lines in before pouring the concrete. It's not that expensive to do. Then you can get a wood or wood/coal boiler and heat the floor. There is no better heat than the heat emanating from the floor. 
Even if you never hook it up, it's there.

Currently I do not heat the pb. It's not insulated and there is no heater in it.


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## oldspark (Dec 5, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Just so you know, it is against the building codes and specifically the fire code to install a solid fuel burning device in a garage which a pole barn is if you have a drive in door.


 Does everyone have that code, I know it does not seem to be a problem here in Iowa for the most part. Actually the terms "attached, garage, shop, all come into play on that code so I do believe he will be OK.


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## oldspark (Dec 5, 2011)

woodmiser said:
			
		

> Here is how I insulated mine. I don't think I would want insulation under the main slab. Too soft.
> 
> The biggest mistake I made was not running floor heat lines in before pouring the concrete. It's not that expensive to do. Then you can get a wood or wood/coal boiler and heat the floor. There is no better heat than the heat emanating from the floor.
> Even if you never hook it up, it's there.
> ...


 Too late for me to do it that way but I like it. I wish I would have know about that when they poured the floor, I bet it will keep the slab much warmer on the edges.


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## wkpoor (Dec 5, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Just so you know, it is against the building codes and specifically the fire code to install a solid fuel burning device in a garage which a pole barn is if you have a drive in door.


I guess nobody told anybody that in Ohio because I personally know at least a dozen people who heat with wood in the garage, pole barn, machine shop, auto repair shop or you name it. Everybody does it here and never heard it was against any code. But we have few codes of any kind here and where I live there are no building codes.


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## jeff_t (Dec 5, 2011)

woodmiser said:
			
		

> Here is how I insulated mine. I don't think I would want insulation under the main slab. Too soft.



Back in my dump truck driving days here in Michigan, our shop had a heated slab over foam board. Drove 150,000+ lb trucks over it all the time.


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## Highbeam (Dec 6, 2011)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> Highbeam said:
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Ignorance is no excuse. It is one thing to know the law and choose to ignore it, quite another to be ignorant and unsafe. 

In the end I am with you, I will be putting a stove in my new pole barn. That is after I have become informed and grown comfortable with the risks and benefits.


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## wkpoor (Dec 6, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> wkpoor said:
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Usually people don't think about or question something that is very common place and that everybody does. Not saying there couldn't be some dangerous situations out there but its like saying since its illegal to drink and drive how can anyone be allowed to drive to a bar while many or most do. The factor is in how much you had to drink while there or don't store you gas cans next to the stove in the shop.


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## oldspark (Dec 6, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> wkpoor said:
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 Look it up, it is not a blanket statement that you can not put a wood burner in a pole barn, there is more to than that.


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## Mike Cook (Oct 19, 2012)

oldspark said:


> Look it up, it is not a blanket statement that you can not put a wood burner in a pole barn, there is more to than that.


 
Gentlemen,

I'm going to respectfully attempt to weigh in on this one.

I'm a first time poster, but I've been lurking for a while now. I too would like to install a wood burner into my pole barn, so I've been searching for info for a few months. I live in eastern Washington, Spokane County to be exact.

Please find attached BP-38 "Wood Stove Installations" from the department of building and planning in Spokane County. I have highlighted the area that says that if a wood burning device is to be installed in a garage, it needs to be 18" off the floor. My guess is that each individual locality has their own rules, and the rules change constantly. Check with your building department.

Have a good day!


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## begreen (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks Mike and welcome. This is a year old thread, but your point is correct. Check with the local inspecting authority.


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