# Is vertical vent pipe required



## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

I now there is alot of knowledge in this forum and I need some advise. 1st off, I will have a oak installed on stove and I have nothing behind house, just my yard which backs up to farm fields. If I vent my exhaust pipe straight out back of unit, thru wall thimble to outside the house, can I terminate the pipe end with my exhaust hood or is there a rule of thumb that you need a tee clean out with so much vertical up-ward piping for the stove to work correctly, then use a 90 elbow and then exhaust hood. If I go straight out, my exhaust hood would be about 4 feet above ground level. I wouldn't be to concerned over that from getting blocked by snow, we normally don't get snows like that, but if we would, I know I would have to clear it away. My only thought would be if it makes the stove run better with vertical up-ward off tee outside. Thanks!


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 29, 2013)

The stove manual rules.


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 29, 2013)

thing to understand is the vert is there for "abnormal" operation, such as a power outage or part failure. that vertical will help the stove draft clear with much less smoke release in the house under these conditions. the stove will run under normal conditions just fine without it , but if its not installed and you have an unplanned shutdown you will likely have smoke release into the house without that vertical


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks Mike for the response, especially coming from a Englander rep., when I have a Englander stove. How much vertical raise would you suggest with a 24" horizontal run thru wall, with a clean-out tee on end. Thanks!


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 29, 2013)

titanracer said:


> Thanks Mike for the response, especially coming from a Englander rep., when I have a Englander stove. How much vertical raise would you suggest with a 24" horizontal run thru wall, with a clean-out tee on end. Thanks!




minimum 3 ft of vert then the elbow then the cap unless the wall surface is combustible and you wont make at least 18 inches, extend the top horizontal a foot if this is the case. if the wall is brick or stone (non combustible surface) you do not need the additional length before the vent cap

also, check to make sure you will not be in too tight to any windows, doors or gravity vents when you go up, if so we will need to figure you a way to stay within code as far as clearances, let me know if this ends up the case and i'll help you figure it out


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> minimum 3 ft of vert then the elbow then the cap unless the wall surface is combustible and you wont make at least 18 inches, extend the top horizontal a foot if this is the case. if the wall is brick or stone (non combustible surface) you do not need the additional length before the vent cap
> 
> also, check to make sure you will not be in too tight to any windows, doors or gravity vents when you go up, if so we will need to figure you a way to stay within code as far as clearances, let me know if this ends up the case and i'll help you figure it out


 Thanks Mike, I beleive I'm good that way, I think. What do you think, the vent hole thru wall will come out between 2 windows. From the center of the hole, it will be equally centered between windows with 51" from center of vent hole to the edge of each window. Meaning, the distance apart between the 2 windows is 102", vent will come right out on center between this distance. I beleive code was 4 ft. (48") from any door or window. With the 3" pellet vent pipe, the outside diameter of the pipe is 4". So half of the 4" outside diameter of pipe will be 2", this will actually give 49" (4'1") from outside diameter of pipe to edge of each window. I think this is exceptable. Whats your thoughts!


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

Mike, one other thing, this is a reinstall of my previous stove, into a new manfactured home. We use to live and had it installed in a 1972, 14 x 70 mobil home. I had no eves to deal with on the mobil home, straight up & down outside walls. Now our new manufactured home has eves with ventilating air to roofing. Will I have a problem with CO2 getting sucked up thru the eves while roof ventalation is breathing. With a 3 ft. vertical rise outside home, 90 degree bend, extend out some before termination cap, I will be somewhere around 2 to 3 feet below the eves. Does that sound alright!


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 29, 2013)

i kinda worry about vented eaves, if practical i like to get away or above them, biggest ting is will the vents inhale CO and allow it into the living space. conventional thinking is that it will be diffused far beyond nuisance levels, but if practical i'd like to get the termination above rather than that close because i do not like messing with CO


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> i kinda worry about vented eaves, if practical i like to get away or above them, biggest ting is will the vents inhale CO and allow it into the living space. conventional thinking is that it will be diffused far beyond nuisance levels, but if practical i'd like to get the termination above rather than that close because i do not like messing with CO


 With that being said, if I go out thru the wall thimble, add cleanout tee and go straight up above the roof, supporting the vent pipe with the eaves overhangs and get it above the roof, at what height/length of pipe can I get away with, before I would have to jump up to a 4" vent system instead of th 3" I have.


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## altmartion (Nov 29, 2013)

I do believe a code is in place about venting beneath a soffit. vented or not. I failed an inspection years ago because of it. but was a condensing boiler and quite a few years ago. things may have changed.


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I do believe a code is in place about venting beneath a soffit. vented or not. I failed an inspection years ago because of it. but was a condensing boiler and quite a few years ago. things may have changed.


Thats why my original post I ask about going straight out and terminating with just the termination cap outside, with no vertical raise, because I had the eaves in mind & would not have any vertical rise to stay away from them. Just not quite sure how to handle this. The manual for stove says nothing about this but want to be as safe as possible with everything including my familys health. I do miss that warmth to the bone heat that I had with my pellet stove. It's not the same with the homes heating system, that surprisingly is pretty efficent, because I upgraded the furnace to the most efficent I could get with the home when I orderd the new home. The heating system is rated at 98% efficent. I moved into it the week before christmas last year. I did use the home heat last season and only used about $700. to heat with propane the rest of the season. that really is not to much more then 3 tons of pellets I normally used in a 1972 moble home, plus this home is a better efficent home then a 1972 moble home. I had alot of extra options added to make this home more efficent in pretty much, every aspect. But do miss the warmth to the bone heat I got with my pellet stove & would love to have it back.


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 29, 2013)

when in doubt carry it a foot above the roof and terminate vertically and you would have no problems. honestly i think if you are a few feet below the eaves its not going to be an issue but i feel ya on the worry. a few more feet of pipe and clear the roofline and its all the way out of mind.


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> when in doubt carry it a foot above the roof and terminate vertically and you would have no problems. honestly i think if you are a few feet below the eaves its not going to be an issue but i feel ya on the worry. a few more feet of pipe and clear the roofline and its all the way out of mind.


 Do you think I can stay with 3" pellet vent pipe or do I need to bump up to 4" pellet vent. I will have somewhere around I think a 8 ft.to 9 ft.of vertical pipe length above my tee. Will 3" pellet vent handle that, plus I may have to go with a 36" horizontal out thru thimble, instead of 24", to clear far enough past eaves, to go upward. Thats looking at probally a total of (4) 36" pipes, 12 ft. of piping plus a tee. Will 3" handle it.


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## stoveguy2esw (Nov 29, 2013)

3 ft horizontal = 3EVL, plus the tee (5) is 8 plus .5 per foot , or 4.5 EVL for 9 ft total is 12.5 EVL so if you are below 3K ft above sea level 3 inch should be fine, if higher than that go with 4 inch


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## titanracer (Nov 29, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> 3 ft horizontal = 3EVL, plus the tee (5) is 8 plus .5 per foot , or 4.5 EVL for 9 ft total is 12.5 EVL so if you are below 3K ft above sea level 3 inch should be fine, if higher than that go with 4 inch


 Thats is what I'm going to have to figure out, where I'm at with sea level. Truthly I have no ideas on that. Thanks so much for all your help & everybody else that responded. I truely do love this forum, it is my most favorite. Thanks to all!!


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## UpStateNY (Nov 30, 2013)

My pipe goes out the wall about 4 feet and then elbow pointing down.  The pipe seams all have a siliconized fiberglass seal.  

Since 2008 I have had numerous power outages and only once had some smoke in the house.   The day I had smoke in the house it was windy and it was blowing right at the end of the piple.  I personally don't have a need for a pipe going upward, which would be just more pipe I would have to clean.


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## SwineFlue (Nov 30, 2013)

titanracer said:


> Thats is what I'm going to have to figure out, where I'm at with sea level. Truthly I have no ideas on that. Thanks so much for all your help & everybody else that responded. I truely do love this forum, it is my most favorite. Thanks to all!!


There's very little chance you are above 3000 feet above sea level in Pa:  the highest spot in Pa is 3200 feet.   If you're near Carlisle, it's around 500'


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 30, 2013)

Newville, PA elevation is 528 feet.


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## titanracer (Nov 30, 2013)

Thanks Swine & Smokey for that info. Thats what I was hoping to find out. Just curious, is there a web site for finding out info like that.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 30, 2013)

titanracer said:


> Thanks Swine & Smokey for that info. Thats what I was hoping to find out. Just curious, is there a web site for finding out info like that.



Normally sticking the town and state into Google search and read the wikipedia entry for that town.  Lat, long, and altitude are usually in that entry.


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## SwineFlue (Nov 30, 2013)

titanracer said:


> Thanks Swine & Smokey for that info. Thats what I was hoping to find out. Just curious, is there a web site for finding out info like that.


Or the Terrain option on Google Maps shows a basic topographic map if you zoom in.  I used the map software that came with my GPS unit.


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## kinsmanstoves (Nov 30, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> The stove manual rules.




Well said!


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## altmartion (Nov 30, 2013)

titanracer said:


> Thats why my original post I ask about going straight out and terminating with just the termination cap outside, with no vertical raise, because I had the eaves in mind & would not have any vertical rise to stay away from them. Just not quite sure how to handle this. The manual for stove says nothing about this but want to be as safe as possible with everything including my familys health. I do miss that warmth to the bone heat that I had with my pellet stove. It's not the same with the homes heating system, that surprisingly is pretty efficent, because I upgraded the furnace to the most efficent I could get with the home when I orderd the new home. The heating system is rated at 98% efficent. I moved into it the week before christmas last year. I did use the home heat last season and only used about $700. to heat with propane the rest of the season. that really is not to much more then 3 tons of pellets I normally used in a 1972 moble home, plus this home is a better efficent home then a 1972 moble home. I had alot of extra options added to make this home more efficent in pretty much, every aspect. But do miss the warmth to the bone heat I got with my pellet stove & would love to have it back.


$700 buck is pretty good! a reason for not wanting to terminate the vent under the sofit (too close anyway) is because it is an ignition source and sparks  can emit from it. once you get a fire up inside there might as well order a new home. it will go fast. but I think the water damage would be the worst of it.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 30, 2013)

G) MIN. 2-FT CLEARANCE BELOW EAVES OR OVERHANG.

From the manual.


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## exoilburner (Dec 5, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> The stove manual rules.


 
X3.  I believe the Manufacturers install specification in the manual takes precedence over the local code.


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## altmartion (Dec 5, 2013)

exoilburner said:


> X3.  I believe the Manufacturers install specification in the manual takes precedence over the local code.


there are times the code will refer you to the manual. but, the local code always supersedes . it even supersedes the national code. I am not 100% sure why, because a lot of stuff should be written across the board. it would save a lot of screwing around.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 5, 2013)

altmartion said:


> there are times the code will refer you to the manual. but, the local code always supersedes . it even supersedes the national code. I am not 100% sure why, because a lot of stuff should be written across the board. it would save a lot of screwing around.



There is no national code it is the figment of the imagination of a bunch of people sitting in a non governmental office.  

It is a list of things that some group wants to be implemented by all places and that is it.

While Smedley can refuse to install a stove because he follows only XXXX211 code, that code unless adopted by either the state (and even here it can get dicey) and/or the local set of jurisdictions.  It isn't code there.

Basically the install has to satisfy the local yokels (provided the state gives the locals such control (not always btw or there is home rule in that state and the people voted for it in some way), your insurance company, and the manual.

If the local code says it must be vertical vent or the highway there best not be any according to the listed appliance makers instructions anywhere in the local yokel's code or the manual prevails. 

I usually make a phone call when I have questions, frequently the initial answer is I'll call you back. 

It can be fun reading code books there are so many outs they can frequently be laughed at.   

It can even be more fun asking the CEO questions about code violations that they signed off on, oops.


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## altmartion (Dec 5, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> There is no national code it is the figment of the imagination of a bunch of people sitting in a non governmental office.
> 
> It is a list of things that some group wants to be implemented by all places and that is it.
> 
> ...


you are right. if the manual and the current code book have different versions on the same issue, the insurance company will not satisfy unless code is followed. there are way too many grey area's and it is an issue. the only people who benefits from it are the insurance companies. and you don't think they are going to try to clear it up do you? lol.


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