# Insurance issues with wood boiler in garage



## rwh442 (Feb 5, 2009)

I see a lot of people on this site with wood boilers in their garages.  Frankly - how are you guys doing this and still insuring the house or detached garage?  I know it is against national fire code (NFPA 212?).  My insurance company and others I have contacted have said no - even on a detached garage over 100' away from the house.

I understand the gasoline fume issue obviously.  But a garage that stays in the mid 60's during the entire winter is really nice - so I have heard.


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## rvtgr8 (Feb 5, 2009)

I am one of the ones who is putting a Garn 1500 in what used to be a garage.  The operative phrase is "used to be."  I have to take out my overhead doors and follow the codes very closely to get this done.  You are correct about the National Fire Code and it all centers around fumes.  You wouldn't want to open up a boiler and have an explosion from paint or gasoline fumes.


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## fossil (Feb 5, 2009)

NFPA 211 specifically forbids, in no uncertain terms, installation of any solid fuel-burning appliance in any garage or in any other space where volatile fumes might exist.  The assumption is that a space described as a _garage_ is one in which motor vehicles might be stored.  NFPA 211 is a _standard_, not a code or a law, but the provisions of NFPA 211 have been adopted as code (law) by local jurisdictions all over North America.  There are exceptions, as I understand it.  Some local authorities allow it, others allow it with certain restrictions.  It's up the local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) to make that determination.  This might be the local Community Development Department, the Building Department, the Fire Marshall, or whomever issues and signs off on building and safety permits.  Insurance is an issue between the company and the policyholder, but most every insurance carrier is going to expect that local regulations are observed, at a minimum, and may even have requirements of their own that exceed those.  Certainly it's best to do your homework thoroughly before proceeding with an expensive project that might end up costing you a lot more than you bargained for.  Rick


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## lawandorder (Feb 5, 2009)

I live in upstate new york in an area with no building codes regarding boilers. I have a 26 x 30 detached garage with a 8 x 14 boiler room attached to the rear of the garage. I have a door from the outside to the boiler room with an indoor Tarm Solo 40 Indoor gassifier. Room is insulated with an insulated door leading to the garage area.  When we originally talked with Insurace Company they only asked if it was an indoor boiler that was going inside. From what I can tell they were fine as long as we werent trying to install any furnace or boiler designed for outdoor use on an interior structure.


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## LeonMSPT (Feb 5, 2009)

House with garage in the basement was built 150 years ago. Wood/coal boiler replaced an oil fired hot water heater. 

Just curious...  #2 fuel oil fumes combustible? Most oil burners in the northeast live in a basement with a 275 gallon tank of the stuff... duh. 

That said, I would never, and that is indeed a long time, ever, refuel or even handle a can of gasoline or any other flammable liquid inside the garage while the boiler is fired. There is "careful" and "careless"...  it's not difficult to parse the differences. 

Considering deleting the closest garage door, building a wall across the opening, with a wall bisecting the old opening, with a door on each side. The wall would isolate the vehicles and fuel, and the wood/coal boiler. Door on each side of the new wall, one to enter or exit each space. No common opening...  

Haven't decided yet, actually. Might make a locker outdoors for gas cans, and let the ATV, Mercury Marquis, and the lawn mower, live in sin... been that way for many years prior to my buying it. 



			
				lawandorder said:
			
		

> I live in upstate new york in an area with no building codes regarding boilers. I have a 26 x 30 detached garage with a 8 x 14 boiler room attached to the rear of the garage. I have a door from the outside to the boiler room with an indoor Tarm Solo 40 Indoor gassifier. Room is insulated with an insulated door leading to the garage area.  When we originally talked with Insurace Company they only asked if it was an indoor boiler that was going inside. From what I can tell they were fine as long as we werent trying to install any furnace or boiler designed for outdoor use on an interior structure.


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## flyingcow (Feb 5, 2009)

I reclassified my garage to a wood storage fcility


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## twitch (Feb 5, 2009)

I built a room in the far corner of my garage with the only access being from the outside.  It cannot be accessed from inside the garage, which is what I was told to be the key to having it in the same building.  I talked to my insurance company and the local code enforcement officer and was told it was 'OK' to put the boiler in the garage, but the company I bought the boiler from told me about the access from outside only thing.


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## Piker (Feb 5, 2009)

Have had a few customers install in their garage.  It all depends on the insurance company.  There are insurance companies that don't seem to care, others that are pretty strict about it.  

One customer was told by his insurance company that he would have to partition off a section of garage with cement block (boiler room) that was not accessible from the interior of the garage.  We got the boiler installed, and before he got the block wall built around it, he discovered another insurance company that would insure it the way it was.  I think he is going to switch insurance companies.

I think most people are intelligent enough to operate a wood boiler in a garage safely.  It's the few that aren't that cause trouble for the majority.  I see the insurance companies perspective on this subject, but only to a point.  We live in a highly regulated world these days in an attempt to reduce personal responsibility and liabilty... some of it's good, some of it's not so good... you just have to work with it.

cheers


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## sublime68charger (Feb 5, 2009)

mine is set up in my garage and the INS guy wanted the boiler in it's own room with a vapor barrier door,  So I built the boiler it's own room and put some doors on it and been good to go since.

also I have a garden shed and all the Gas cans stay there.  

Plus my garage is not a super air tight work area so I have a 1" gap around the garage doors and in the outside wall of the boiler room I put in a 4" dryer vent to provide fresh air source for the boiler to draw from.  

thats my set up in nut shell.

I would have built the boiler it's own room next to my garage as I lost work area and then storage of wood but  there was already a stove pipe set up in the garage from the previous owner.  He had a Nat Gas furnace out there to heat the garage for winter projects.

It is nice to have a garage that is alway's warm.
Plus when I want to work out there I can turn on my aux heater that is installed on the return line from the house and get extra heat that way.  also open the doors to the boiler room and I can get the garage up to 50-60 range in about 20 minutes.

sublime out


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## smokinj (Feb 5, 2009)

mine is also in the garage the insurance has no problems with it but still going to put a wall around it. Door from outside as well and door to the garage the way i understand it the applaince can be access from the garage but not the only access


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## peakbagger (Feb 5, 2009)

My agent long ago made the comment that if the stove in my garage caused the fire, the insurance would not pay out for the loss . If the stove didnt cause the problem or wasnt a mitigating factor, not a problem. So it sounds to me that I should be darn carefull if I run the woodstove as I dont want to eat the cost of my garage and contents.


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## smokinj (Feb 5, 2009)

heres a good tread of this subject. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/14856/


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## slowzuki (Feb 5, 2009)

Really the issue is the flammable liquids.  If you have a carpentry shop that you do laquer finishing in, not supposed to have a solid fuel appliance (or anything else with open flame for that matter)

If you really want to fight them on it you can install a flammable gas monitoring system and ventilation controlled by it and etc etc.  The other way to do it is make a boiler room in the garage, or make it so there is not gas in the garage.

Really nowadays its not the cars that are the big risk, its the other storage of gas and gas powered tools.  If the codes were really concerned, we wouldn't be allowed to have outlets near the floor and there would be natural ventilation and mechanical ventilation requirements.  I suspect the requirments arose out of some incidents in the 60's or 70's.  We also wouldn't be permitted to store any gas in our houses which is not the case.

Remember a cup of gas will make your garage go boom the exact same as a gallon.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Feb 6, 2009)

Garages are no-go in most locations.

A "storage room with overhead door" is another situation, of course... 

Joe


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## pybyr (Feb 7, 2009)

LeonMSPT said:
			
		

> Just curious...  #2 fuel oil fumes combustible? Most oil burners in the northeast live in a basement with a 275 gallon tank of the stuff... duh.



I'm  not defending the current codes as perfectly rational, or likely to produce sensible outcomes-but-

#2 fuel oil has to be atomized just right, with some considerable effort (an oil burner contains a pump pushing roughly 100 PSI, a precise nozzle, and a big fan) , and hit with a pretty hot spark, to burn in an oil burner.  If it is in a puddle, it's actually remarkably hard to light on fire.  So it is combustible, but with some considerable reluctance.

Gasoline, on the other hand, has a much lower vapor point, and its fumes, which it yields in copious amounts at most temperatures above 32F, are stunningly and uncontrollably explosive.  And the fumes are heavier than air, so tend to "migrate" sideways for surprising distances.  Ever see a dopey friend try to light a campfire with gasoline and have the flames come straight across the ground and take their eyebrows off?  Don't try it at home, but that's what you'll get.

I am not arguing against putting a wood boiler anywhere- just saying that you do, indeed, want to keep any gasoline, paint, solvent, etc., fumes far, far away from it.


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## rwh442 (Feb 7, 2009)

Looks like I will try shopping around for other insurance carriers.  It kind of sounds like I might be able the find one.  Good luck huh?  It's starting to look like an oversized wood shed with rollup doors the more I think about it.


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## yooper rich (Feb 7, 2009)

smokihj, thanks for posting the thread from last year.  That was helpful to me and my boiler room in a garage plan.


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## smokinj (Feb 7, 2009)

yooper rich said:
			
		

> smokihj, thanks for posting the thread from last year.  That was helpful to me and my boiler room in a garage plan.


Thats what Iam working on now! Should turn out nice because now you will not see any of the mess at all. wife will be happy


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## pybyr (Feb 7, 2009)

A suggestion that I've made before- if your insurance Co says that any particular thing is OK, either get in writing from them, or send them a letter saying: "Thank you for confirming during our conversation on (Month, Day, Year) that my installation of devices ABC in location/ manner XYZ OK with you, and has no negative effect  on my coverage, now, in the future, or in the event of a claim.  Sincerely, Me."

The reason that I say this is that the people who sell and service insurance policies are typically not the same folks who investigate claims and decide what to pay (and not pay).  The first set have incentives to get and keep customers; the second set have incentives to pay as little as possible.  You want to make sure that you have a written record so that the second set have to live by the commitments made by the first set.


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## flyingcow (Feb 8, 2009)

pybyr said:
			
		

> A suggestion that I've made before- if your insurance Co says that any particular thing is OK, either get in writing from them, or send them a letter saying: "Thank you for confirming during our conversation on (Month, Day, Year) that my installation of devices ABC in location/ manner XYZ OK with you, and has no negative effect  on my coverage, now, in the future, or in the event of a claim.  Sincerely, Me."
> 
> The reason that I say this is that the people who sell and service insurance policies are typically not the same folks who investigate claims and decide what to pay (and not pay).  The first set have incentives to get and keep customers; the second set have incentives to pay as little as possible.  You want to make sure that you have a written record so that the second set have to live by the commitments made by the first set.



well said


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## 91220da (Feb 9, 2009)

I informed my insurance carrier ahead of the fact that I was installing a "UL approved indoor wood burning appliance" in my garage.  They said that as long as it had the UL approved rating I was ok.  I aggree with PYBYR's post to get it in writing.  Bottom line, if something happens, the insurance company is never going to pay you in full no matter who, what, or when, is said.


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