# Vogelzang “The Mountaineer”  104,000 BTU, Model# VG650ELG for $499.00 from Northern???



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

Has any one ever tried one of these? 

I looked through the reviews and found nothing....

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200307955_200307955?

How would this compare to the centry from lowes?

Or the Drolet Wood Stove — 90,000 BTU, Model# DB07200 for 799.00 from Northern?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200316353_200316353?


----------



## begreen (Jan 14, 2007)

It's not too popular a brand and a somewhat small stove. You might want to look at a Consolidated Dutchwest or an Englander. I think you'll get a lot more for your money. 

There's a big size difference in the stoves you've mentioned. What are your trying to heat and what size stove do you really need?


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

My house is 2,500 sq ft but it is not all that cold here in Texas most of the time.

here is the description...

*
Vogelzang “The Mountaineer” Wood-Burning Stove, Model# VG650ELG
Order Today and Save $100.99

Beauty and efficiency combine to give you an exceptional wood-burning stove at a great price. The heavy-gauge 3/16in. plate steel 

Mountaineer accepts 22in. logs and heats a living space of approx. 2000 sq. ft. Heavy cast iron 22in. x 11in. feed door with air-wash ceramic glass offers a clear view of the fire. 

Delivering 104,000 BTU, this stove will burn for many hours on a single load of wood. The Mountaineer is fully firebrick lined, has a large ash pan for easy ash removal, a cast iron damper-collar and a cam-lock door latch that secures the gasketed feed door safely in place. 

Adjustable high speed blower (included) directs warm air into room*


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

The main thing about that particular stove is that it isn't an EPA certified clean burning stove. It is exempt because it burns with a minimum air/fuel ratio of 35-1 or more and does not have design features to allow reburn so it will probably smoke more than an EPA certified stove.


----------



## kevinmoelk (Jan 14, 2007)

Texas, do a little reasearch and you'll see Vogelzang has about the same reputation as Yugo.  A stove is an investment.  Don't skimp.  Get a stove from a quality manufacturer.  Vogelzang is bottom of the barrel.

-Kevin


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

TexasAgs said:
			
		

> Has any one ever tried one of these?
> 
> I looked through the reviews and found nothing....
> 
> ...



Call Sutherland's Lumber Company over in Fort Worth at (817) 244-8140. They handle Englander and VZ stoves and you could pick it up and not have to pay freight charges like you would have to with Northern Tool.

Web site: http://www.sutherlands.com/products/woodstoves/woodstoves.htm


----------



## HarryBack (Jan 14, 2007)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Texas, do a little reasearch and you'll see Vogelzang has about the same reputation as Yugo.  A stove is an investment.  Don't skimp.  Get a stove from a quality manufacturer.  Vogelzang is bottom of the barrel.
> 
> -Kevin



I agree with Wrench! Also....uh...wow! 104,000 BTU's? That'd do the job here in New England in a cold winter! Overkill for TX? I mean, I know, everything in TX is big, but 104,000 btu/hr? Please be aware there will be a minimal burn to keep this thing running, and that minimal brun could heat you outta the house on a typical wintry texas day! 

Good luck! Let us know what youre doing, and most importantly, post pictures!


----------



## ourhouse (Jan 14, 2007)

Is you'r homeoners Ins. paid up and have you checked you'r life Ins. also.


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

wrenchmonster said:
			
		

> Texas, do a little reasearch and you'll see Vogelzang has about the same reputation as Yugo.  A stove is an investment.  Don't skimp.  Get a stove from a quality manufacturer.  Vogelzang is bottom of the barrel.
> 
> -Kevin



Thanks for the heads up... 

BTW, What make this stove bad and the others good?

This way I will know what to look for...


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

-Kevin[/quote]

I agree with Wrench! Also....uh...wow! 104,000 BTU's? That'd do the job here in New England in a cold winter! Overkill for TX? I mean, I know, everything in TX is big, but 104,000 btu/hr? Please be aware there will be a minimal burn to keep this thing running, and that minimal brun could heat you outta the house on a typical wintry texas day! 

Good luck! Let us know what youre doing, and most importantly, post pictures![/quote]

I will post pics once I choose and install! 

Minimal burn ? See...,  that is why I keep asking these 'Dumb" Questions... Keep the info coming

Then maybe the one Lowes has in stock(Century Hearth 1,000 Square Foot Wood Stove for $240.00 ) is more in line with my needs...

I did not see any type of blower with this ... Should that be a factor?


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200316353_200316353?[/quote]

Call Sutherland's Lumber Company over in Fort Worth at (817) 244-8140. They handle Englander and VZ stoves and you could pick it up and not have to pay freight charges like you would have to with Northern Tool.

Web site: http://www.sutherlands.com/products/woodstoves/woodstoves.htm[/quote]

Will do... I did see this ..

_*Wood, Corn and Pellet Stoves
PLEASE NOTE: THESE MODELS ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL LOCATIONS!
Please contact your local store for local pricing and stock information*_

But I will call first thing in the morning and check it out... 

_*Englander 30-NCP*_ 

Is this what I should be looking at? 

I did not see any prices... What do they go for? 

Should I look for a used one since these do not have all of the moving parts etc... of a corn/pellet stove?

Is a blower important and can I add one on afterwards?


----------



## Hogwildz (Jan 14, 2007)

TexasAgs said:
			
		

> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200316353_200316353?



Call Sutherland's Lumber Company over in Fort Worth at (817) 244-8140. They handle Englander and VZ stoves and you could pick it up and not have to pay freight charges like you would have to with Northern Tool.

Web site: http://www.sutherlands.com/products/woodstoves/woodstoves.htm[/quote]

Will do... I did see this ..

_*Wood, Corn and Pellet Stoves
PLEASE NOTE: THESE MODELS ARE NOT AVAILABLE AT ALL LOCATIONS!
Please contact your local store for local pricing and stock information*_

But I will call first thing in the morning and check it out... 

_*Englander 30-NCP*_ 

Is this what I should be looking at? 

I did not see any prices... What do they go for? 

Should I look for a used one since these do not have all of the moving parts etc... of a corn/pellet stove?

Is a blower important and can I add one on afterwards?[/quote]

Before jumping into this, do some more research. The Century 1000 sf model at lowes & the Englander 30-NCP are night & day in difference. The Century is small, the Englander you mentioned is huge. Englander 30-NC at Home Peehole here is about $795.00, that Century at lowes here is about $499.00 One tiny stove, one Huge stove. YOu really need to research by your wants/needs and what you like looks wise if important, and research manuacturers reputations, warranties, etc. You can do all this online at each ones websites, and look at the reviews here on hearth..... https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php
Why rush into something without knowing what you need/want and whats best for you.
For any serious heating IMHO a blower is not an option, but a must. If you just want to heat a room and the view is more than the heat output, no blower needed, thats one stove, if you are looking to suppliment heat and burn 24/7, heat the home or several rooms, thats another stove.

Pick 3 or 4 that interest you, research each, then hit local dealers to see them in person up close. Make a list of what features you want, and what features you need. Know that no stove will likely have all your wants & needs, but one or two may come close enough to make the compromising decisions on.
Research, research, research.
Good luck.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

TexasAgs said:
			
		

> _*Englander 30-NCP*_
> 
> Is this what I should be looking at?
> 
> ...



The 30-NC is way more stove than you need per what you have stated before. I said here one time before that I believe the one I have could heat Texas Stadium.

The 13-NCP which would be more like what you need goes for around $500 at some of the Sutherland's farther West of you.

Personally I wouldn't buy a used stove of any kind from anybody. Just a personal thing of mine.

You can order a blower online directly from England's Stove Works at any time if you decide you need one. No need to buy one until you know you need it.


----------



## Hogwildz (Jan 14, 2007)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> TexasAgs said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that the 1/2 case of Miller light model?


----------



## elkimmeg (Jan 14, 2007)

“Safety tested to UL 1482. Stove pipe not included. Meets EPA requirements for exempt wood/coal burning stoves. Truck ship. 1-year limited warranty. Not for sale in WA and CA”

Lets examine what is said implied and total BS

Safety tested to UL 1482 . 
What is not said is whether it passed UL 1482. If it had passed, then why not carry UL approval? Does it claim approval,  A blatant  attempt in false advertising claiming a standard it  not labeled for
 Can be sold in Ca or Wa because it does not meet their clean burning codes Actually if it is not listed and labeled, meaning UL approved, it can not be installed in any residence in USA

Since I have pointed out innuendo in advertising, then you can take this claim as BS too

“Delivering 104,000 BTU”, No secondary burn. What on a load up full air open cherry red it registered that reading a few minutes?

“1-year limited warranty” 

 The product has the minimum warranty required by law many quality stoves have 5 or more years like Englander

 The warning red flags should be flying high, as to the piece of crap these stoves are, 

Do you have any American Pride? If you have one once, you would not be considering this poorly made unlisted piece of crap, imported from the pacific basin. 

This is a death firebox using a leaky poorly assembly to skirt EPA regs, using a crapy air ratio.  It  will be almost impossible to bring under control once it gets rolling 

I’m glad you posted here before making a foolish mistake 

 Now the Droit you mentioned is listed and approved. If you have a Lowes near by why not an Englander American Made in VA and 5 year warranty and tech support found here on Hearth,com forum.
 Or Century again backed bya brand name manufacturer


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Is that the 1/2 case of Miller light model?



Real world burn with hardwood is around six to eight hours so that would be somewhere in two case territory. 12 oz. cans, not the tallboys.


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> I’m glad you posted here before making a foolish mistake
> 
> Now the Droit you mentioned is listed and approved. If you have a Lowes near by why not an Englander American Made in VA and 5 year warranty and tech support found here on Hearth,com forum.
> Or Century again backed bya brand name manufacturer



Our *Lowes* did not have the *Englander* but it does carry the *Century* and that is the direction I am leaning.

I guess I will see if I need a blower and then figure out how to do this...


----------



## johnsopi (Jan 14, 2007)

Remember if you buy from H.D or lowes get a 10 or 20 % coupon. You can get one from ebay for 4-5 $


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 14, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> For any serious heating IMHO a blower is not an option, but a must. If you just want to heat a room and the view is more than the heat output, no blower needed, thats one stove, if you are looking to suppliment heat and burn 24/7, heat the home or several rooms, thats another stove.
> 
> Good luck.



Should the blower be built-in?


----------



## PaulyV (Jan 14, 2007)

For the century stove I read on a previous post that its $67 as an add on.


----------



## elkimmeg (Jan 14, 2007)

If the stove is going to be an insert consider the blower option 
I have heated this home in NewEngland for 30 years with two stoves none have blowers both free standing
 30 degrees outside now 74 inside both stoves running 400 degrees stove top temp  no blowers Now I believe TX is a bit warmer than here
 what you have to do is describe your heating area and we can help determine the correct stove size 
 Good luck  amd welcome aboard Hearth.com


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

Ok, one more post and I am done on this one. I don't get a commission on stoves but since I haven't gotten around to posting a review on my new stove I will post here why I chose an Englander stove over a Century. Both good stoves.

The Century stove is constructed entirely of 3/16" thickness steel. The Englander I bought has a 3/16" steel body wrap but the top of it is 1/4". On Century stoves there is not reinforcement on the longest stretches of steel, that being the sides of the stove. On the Englander the secondary and primary air manifolds as well as the brick retainers are welded in in such a way that they reinforce the side of the stove front to back. I feel that is important because with thinner steel warping is my major concern, especially on a larger stove like the 30-NC where the sides look like an acre of steel.

The second item was the baffle setup. With the Century you have a carbon steel box arrangement filled with ceramic fiber blanket material. On the Englander you have ceramic fiber board up top. The downside of the carbon steel baffle is that I have never seen one burned very hot that lasted more than three years or so without major warping if you are a 24/7 burner. The downside of the ceramic fiber board is that it is delicate and getting whacked with a poker or edge of a log ain't very good for the longevity of the material. The boards are pretty widely available and not all that expensive. I have no clue what CFM gets for the steel baffles but it can't be less than the sixty bucks England's gets for a fiber board.

Third and pretty much final was the fact that I have never heard anything but cheers for ESW's customer service. And my experience has born this out.

No cheerleading involved, since the stove has not been tried over the long run yet, but these are the differences that influnenced my choice.


----------



## webbie (Jan 14, 2007)

On one hand that Mountaineer does not look too bad for an exempt stove - and looking at the design it probably burns fairly clean.

BUT, for the same price I would do as others suggested. I don't think a blower would be needed in your climate, although it is an option that might help the house warm up quicker from a cold start. Folks here assume you are on a budget since you mentioned that 799 price, but if you can go a little higher you also have other choices....including certain models that sell through regular fireplace dealers. I know Avalon or Lopi came out with a $999. model this year and others have reported similar prices from Osburn, etc.

Normally, we would say to try a local fireplace or stove shop - but in Tx they are often few and far (real far) between and that is where the local lumberyard and Englander, Century, etc. some in. Either way, you are getting a stove at a great price - these things have come down in price while steel has gone up (mass production and over stock...at least this year).


----------



## jjbaer (Jan 14, 2007)

TexasAgs said:
			
		

> Hogwildz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where are you located in TX (it will help determine the stove size you need)?


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 14, 2007)

castiron said:
			
		

> TexasAgs said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anywhere but the Panhandle it won't make much difference. From Lubbock north, get a big'un. Except there ain't no firewood up there. I am from West Texas and I used to joke that we had thousands of square miles of beach and no ocean.

Approching Lubbock by air from the East you pass over miles and miles of fields and semi-arid land. All farming is done with massive irrigation equipment. You can look down and see one big tree in the middle of all of it. It has a fence around it and looks as if it is cared for like a shrine.


----------



## PacificGuyInCNY (Jan 15, 2007)

> ... you’ll see Vogelzang has about the same reputation as Yugo.



D@mmit Wrench you stole my metaphor!  Yugo indeed.  Friends don't let friends by Vogelzangs.  My bro-in-law called yesterday all excited about a new stove he bought at Tractor Supply, fortunately it was a Magnolia but fearing it was a Vogelzang I was half way out the door headed over there to stop him, by force if necessary.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 15, 2007)

PacificGuyInCNY said:
			
		

> > ... you’ll see Vogelzang has about the same reputation as Yugo.
> 
> 
> 
> D@mmit Wrench you stole my metaphor!  Yugo indeed.  Friends don't let friends by Vogelzangs.  My bro-in-law called yesterday all excited about a new stove he bought at Tractor Supply, fortunately it was a Magnolia but fearing it was a Vogelzang I was half way out the door headed over there to stop him, by force if necessary.



What is so neat about a Chinese stove?


----------



## PacificGuyInCNY (Jan 15, 2007)

Bro Bart I agree with you, not saying the Magnolia woulda been my choice but at least it won't be the trail of tears that would come with owning a Vogelzang.


----------



## Hogwildz (Jan 15, 2007)

I first looked at a Vogelzang befoer I knew better.
This is a great place.


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 15, 2007)

[quote author="BrotherBart" date="1168836434]

Anywhere but the Panhandle it won't make much difference. From Lubbock north, get a big'un. Except there ain't no firewood up there. I am from West Texas and I used to joke that we had thousands of square miles of beach and no ocean.
[/quote]

Well, the ocean showed up this weekend.. 4 years of Drought and then we git 8" of rain and 2" of ice with more on the way!...and it was 69 degrees on Friday afternoon...


----------



## TexasAgs (Jan 15, 2007)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> I first looked at a Vogelzang befoer I knew better.
> This is a great place.



AMEN


----------

