# Question on noodling



## dave11 (Nov 17, 2010)

So I'm starting to noodle these huge rounds of oak that the tree service left me. I've seen the vids and descriptions online about how to do it, but I haven't found any that say how to noodle rounds this big. Some are 3-4 feet in diameter. The problem is that the size of the rounds seems to make the kerf close around the chain, as you come down from the 12 o'clock position. So I started putting a wedge in the cut, above the saw, which also helps clear the noodles out of the cut.

But then things are still awkward. I need to stop when the saw is an inch or so above the ground, correct? Otherwise I run the risk of grounding the saw, or having those two huge halves fall to each side and possibly pinch the saw? Not to mention the wedge falling down onto the saw.

Or if instead I stop above the ground, then roll the round a half-turn, trying to complete the cut from above, its nearly impossible to cut straight down from 12 o'clock, because the round usually wants to roll to one side or the other, requiring the downward cut to be angled. This seems to risk pinching the chain when the upper half of the round falls.

What am I overlooking here? 

Thanks.


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

Whatever it takes not to hit the ground...


----------



## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 17, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> What am I overlooking here?
> 
> Thanks.



Yer overlooking the fact that it's Oak. Split it, don't noodle it.


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Nov 17, 2010)

If you have cut almost all the way through a 3-4 ft round to within a couple inches of the other side you should almost be able to pull the rest of the round apart by hand, if not it should be a simple mater to split it the rest of the way through.
Often times if I'm noodling an extra large round I just noodle half way through and split it the rest of the way.


----------



## dave11 (Nov 17, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> dave11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's a pin oak just felled two days ago. It's wet and springy, and wedges just sink into it. It's lying in my driveway, so I can't wait for it to dry out.


----------



## dave11 (Nov 17, 2010)

Carbon_Liberator said:
			
		

> If you have cut almost all the way through a 3-4 ft round to within a couple inches of the other side you should almost be able to pull the rest of the round apart by hand, if not it should be a simple mater to split it the rest of the way through.
> Often times if I'm noodling an extra large round I just noodle half way through and split it the rest of the way.



That makes good sense. I assume though you are not trying to split it down through the cut, correct. You are flipping the round back flat on the ground and trying to split it in the usual way?


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> ISeeDeadBTUs said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most lye it on its side once your almost through it the wedge will finnish it!


----------



## Occo370 (Nov 17, 2010)

I have also been experimenting with noodling.     It seems to dull the chain quick.   Is this normal


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

Occo370 said:
			
		

> I have also been experimenting with noodling.     It seems to dull the chain quick.   Is this normal



It can be...I go through the top of the round off center doesnt seem to dull any quickier but you need Horse Power to pull it off.


----------



## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 17, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> It's a pin oak just felled two days ago. It's wet and springy, and wedges just sink into it. It's lying in my driveway, so I can't wait for it to dry out.



I will freely admit I've never worked with Pin Oak, but it's still a Red Oak. I'd cut them to length, move them with the bucket so they aren't in the driveway anymore. Dump them so they stand up on end. After they sit for a month you'll see the best location to split them.

To me, if you have to cut chunks in half, that's a waste of resources. Noodling should only be done rarely, and even then just enough so the wedge won't pop out when struck with a 16# sledge.

Jimbo


----------



## billb3 (Nov 17, 2010)

I've tried noodling oak.
Takes too long and seems like a waste of good wood.
Even just enough to  start a wedge.

I've got several wedges with different tapers and a maul with a short handle.

If my back is bothering me I'll put the round I'm splitting up on a short round and sit in a chair  and pound away with the  wedges and maul.
Skinny wedge first and if that doesn't crack it most of the way down the fatter one goes in beside it.
A  rubber band around the  helps stop them from  falling off  although I tend to use that less and less.


I'll wear  taller boots sometimes because every now and then a wedge will come out  and land on my feet or ankle if I don't move quick enough. Especially pieces that have big branch crotches in 'em.


----------



## Wood Duck (Nov 17, 2010)

I'd try noodling part way through the round, then splitting from the same side as the noodling by driving a wedge or two into the cut you have made. You can figure out how deep you need to noodle by experimenting. I think once you have split the rounds in half, you should be able to split them a lot more easily.


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Nov 17, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> Carbon_Liberator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I generally flip them up vertical and split them in the traditional way.  
If there is one firewood related chore I don't care for, it's splitting stubborn rounds. Normal productive splitting I really enjoy, but when I start spending too much time, noodling and wedging and getting nowhere fast, on one stubborn split I start to get a little frustrated and starts me thinking about getting a hydraulic splitter. 
I had some stubborn spruce once that was a little green, it had all the bad attributes of firewood that makes one wonder if it's all worth it.  This spruce was spongy (or springy as you put it), so that the maul wood often bury itself in the wood and I was spending way too much time getting the maul unstuck. Also it was so stringy that after you had chopped through a split you had to do several more chops to separate the stringy wood fibers that still attached the two splits together. And on top of those things it was not very good firewood, not much better that cottonwood, or that Eastern pine. Sometimes with the other wood I have I can just leave the rounds for a week or two and they will start drying and cracking pretty fast and those cracks really facilitate hand splitting, but this spruce didn't even cooperate in that way, I left them for several months and they were still a pain to split.  When I finally had to break out the chainsaw and start noodling the rounds I swore never to touch the stuff again. I have other choices of wood available that are much easier to process and have far better burning qualities.

Obviously Oak is well worth the extra trouble. I guess leaving them to dry out for a time, so they are easier to split, is not a good option for you, from what I know about oak it stays so wet for so long. But perhaps they could be left as an inheritance for your children, or grandchildren, to carry on the family wood burning tradition. A sort of unfinished project for the next generation.  ;-)


----------



## Jags (Nov 17, 2010)

Dave - your working at this too hard.  If your gonna noodle, just saw the bugger until you can set the saw flat on the ground.  There is so little hinge wood left that each half will fall to the side or a simple grab and pull will pop it.  If the log is closing on you during the cut, make a couple of wedges from the wood you are cutting to jam into the cut.  Even if it falls onto the chain, no harm, no foul.


----------



## Danno77 (Nov 17, 2010)

Can't you noodle with the top of the saw? Maybe that's a big no-no, but I do it all the time. I cut down a ways, then roll it over to finish the noodle with the top of the saw (bottom up). I actually prefer to do it this way because the noodles are aimed away from me, and more importantly the noodles don't jam up the saw.

Someone speak up if I'm missing something here, or being completely unsafe.


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Can't you noodle with the top of the saw? Maybe that's a big no-no, but I do it all the time. I cut down a ways, then roll it over to finish the noodle with the top of the saw (bottom up). I actually prefer to do it this way because the noodles are aimed away from me, and more importantly the noodles don't jam up the saw.
> 
> Someone speak up if I'm missing something here, or being completely unsafe.



Thats a new one to me....Sounds like a winner!


----------



## Jags (Nov 17, 2010)

I have done that also Danno - but I find it to be a bit more work on the really big rounds.  Pulling up on the saw for a couple of minutes instead of setting the saw on the log and cut makes me take more breaks. ;-)


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

Heck I just set the round up on end and hog right through it...I Set on a milk create like backwoods with my 880! lol  Thats spliting.


----------



## Danno77 (Nov 17, 2010)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Heck I just set the round up on end and hog right through it...I Set on a milk create like backwoods with my 880! lol  Thats spliting.


I'm picturing your 880 hanging from a tree with a zip tie on the throttle. Then you just throw rounds at the bar and it slices through them like a Fiskars through a toe.


----------



## smokinj (Nov 17, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I really dont set on a milk create...I have an older lazy boy I keep on the back porch!


----------



## muncybob (Nov 17, 2010)

I just noodled up a few really large ash rounds. Best way for me was to lay the round on it's side, cut down thru the bark about 85% of the way to the ground and same from other side...then use a large crow bar to break them open. The shavings made good bedding for the horses 

But, I do not like noodling and only do this for the very large ones. It seems to dull the chain quicker than "normal" cutting.


----------



## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 17, 2010)

More my cup of noodles


----------



## CTYank (Nov 17, 2010)

billb3 said:
			
		

> I've tried noodling oak.
> Takes too long and seems like a waste of good wood.
> Even just enough to  start a wedge.
> 
> I've got several wedges with different tapers and a maul with a short handle.



My plan is to have no plan- no rigid course of action. Certainly not one of noodling all the way through.

If a round has a fork or knot, I'll try to avoid that for first split(s), then hit that part with a chainsaw, just enough to split it.

Else, it's time for a long-handle 6 lb. maul- pick a line to split along; hit it on one end, then the other until tender, or apart.

You adapt for the quality of the wood/piece. If it's really difficult, you might noodle a few inches deep for a starting location. Maybe drive a wedge there with the round lying flat and work away from there with a maul.

Or, you might "daisy" the round: split off small slabs around the periphery.

Or, you might rip a groove into the face of a round where you want to split it.

When time & space are critical, you might make the initial split or two of a round, then move the pieces for later completion. Takes away time-pressure.

That's the fun of it, there's no "one-size-fits-all"- you learn to combine approaches.


----------



## midwestcoast (Nov 17, 2010)

Dave, your comment about the wedge hitting the saw makes me wonder: You're not using a steel wedge to hold the kerf open are you? If no it doesn't matter if they hit the saw.  If yes then your concerns are valid, you will mess-up the chain, get a couple plastic wedges ($5) or just use wood chips.  Switch to the steel wedges for the final splitting.


----------



## scotvl (Nov 18, 2010)

Jags said:
			
		

> I have done that also Danno - but I find it to be a bit more work on the really big rounds.  Pulling up on the saw for a couple of minutes instead of setting the saw on the log and cut makes me take more breaks. ;-)



it shouldn't take a couple of minutes on the upwards cut after you've cut 3/4 through on you're way down. My 7900 makes short work of even oak or hard maple. Just have to touch your chain up before you noodle and have a saw with some balls. I noodle almost every load I scrounge, I have no other way to get big rounds in my trailer. If they are 30" or larger I quarter them, much easier on my back.


----------



## okotoks guy (Nov 18, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> More my cup of noodles



Noodles with Happy Endings!


----------



## Shari (Nov 18, 2010)

...and don't throw those noodles away as they make wonderfull fire starters.

Shari


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Nov 18, 2010)

I see that you are in Western, PA..
If you can move the rounds, my vote would be to get them in the backyard and wait until it freezes outside....by mid/late december you should be able to split them much easier. But, OTOH, by the size of the rounds you may not be able to move them?
Good luck


----------



## dave11 (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for all the input. In reply, let me say most of these rounds are beyond what one or even two guys could move easily. They're oak and they're wet and heavy as heck. And I don't have a bucket loader or any big equipment to move them for me. 

A pic is attached. To give it a little scale, the whitish blob in the middle are my safety glasses lying on a round.

The rounds are in the driveway and can lie there for a while, but I'd like to have them out by the time the snow flies, so I can plow the driveway. 

I've tried splitting these with wedges  and a sledge. The wedge goes in half way and pops back out, or when the wood does split, it is still hung on lots of torn strips that have to be stripped away. It's a pin oak hat was just felled a few days ago. 

I've noodled several so far and carted them off to the shed. Even after noodling, some of the pieces are almost too big to move.

Actually, I've got a second question, so I'll post that separately.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## smokinj (Nov 18, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the input. In reply, let me say most of these rounds are beyond what one or even two guys could move easily. They're oak and they're wet and heavy as heck. And I don't have a bucket loader or any big equipment to move them for me.
> 
> A pic is attached. To give it a little scale, the whitish blob in the middle are my safety glasses lying on a round.
> 
> ...




Nice!


----------



## WoodPorn (Nov 18, 2010)

How about a 2 wheel dolly for moving those things?

When I "noodle" a very large round, I do the same as Danno77 I'll go 3/4 of the way through the round and roll it over and cut up from that point with the top of the bar.


----------



## dave11 (Nov 18, 2010)

WoodPorn said:
			
		

> How about a 2 wheel dolly for moving those things?
> 
> When I "noodle" a very large round, I do the same as Danno77 I'll go 3/4 of the way through the round and roll it over and cut up from that point with the top of the bar.



I have been using the dolly, but some are just too big for me to get on the dolly without help. Most of those big pieces I can only roll/move with my 5 foot cant hook. 

But it was all free, so I won't complain.


----------



## okotoks guy (Nov 18, 2010)

Those are some big rounds. I used to have the same problem.I was fortunate enough to
convince the wife to let me purchase a splitter. For the effort,frustration and time that goes 
into noodling,I would look into renting a splitter if you can't justify outright purchase.


----------



## SnapCracklePop (Nov 20, 2010)

Well, hmph! This isn't much of a fun topic. I thought "noodling" was what you did in the back seat of a '57 Chevy...


----------



## billb3 (Nov 20, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> More my cup of noodles



you just wanna feed scott brown noodles so you can borrow his truck


----------

