# Portage and Main  Boilers



## D. Cameron (Aug 15, 2016)

Looking for some advice.  Last December bought a new house, and after spending a winter there looking to upgrade the heating system.

The house is 2000` and needs better windows, doors, etc.  I am planning on doing a major renovation next spring and will address the draft issues, etc..  I currently heat the house with a wood stove with an oil furnace backup.  I am hoping to run the outdoor wood boiler through the oil furnace plenum.  I also hope to heat a hot tub with the boiler.  The outdoor boiler will be stored in a shed.

I am primarily looking at the Portage and Main line up of stoves. I am undecided if I should spend the money on the gasification line of stoves.  Stove will be about 50`from the house (okay with my insurance provider) and wondering if smoke is an issue with the BL series. I was talking to the local dealer and he was trying to push the BL line as opposed to the EGR Gasification series simply on ease of operation and cost.  Just wondering how much they smoke (he claimed there was not much of a difference between wood consumption and smoke between the units.)  

Because  of the hot tub,  would be looking to run the stove in the shoulder seasons, maybe even summer. Would smoke or smouldering be an issue with the non gasification stoves in warmer weather. 

Any thoughts between the two stoves are appreciated.


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## leon (Aug 15, 2016)

Any time the draft damper closes and the fan shuts off its going to smoke.

You should have someone come in and do a heat loss study before you even think
about investing in a smoke dragon/owb/water stove.

There are still plenty of low interest loan incentive programs for upgrading your homes
windows and insulation.

The cost to upgrade your insulation and windows will be much less than investing in a
smoke dragon/owb/water stove and would give you an immediate return on your investment.

Do not forget you have to feed that thing several times a day and the work is not pleasant
in the middle of the night with a howling wind or when its raining so hard you can barely see.
changing a circulator in the middle of the night when its below zero is no fun either.

Its your money, have a heat loss study done first and look at how much energy you will save by
having the work done that they recommend. the return for the work done will be immediate where
it will reduce your cost of utilities for heating your home and hot water with more efficient windows,
insulated doors, adding insulation, caulking, a new more efficient water heater and insulating your
basement walls if you have a basement.

Do not forget that there will be more costs after you purchese the smoke dragon.  new wiring runs for the circulator and triple aquastat, 15 dollar per foot insulated pex, a water to air heat exchanger,  bladder tank, an air scoop, large I.D. piping for the air scoop, more plumbing controls like a dump zone  to shed excess heat, a second heat exchanger for your spa etc. 

It does not sound like the P+M dealer told you everything HE or SHE should have told you up front.


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## maple1 (Aug 15, 2016)

*Would smoke or smouldering be an issue with the non gasification stoves in warmer weather. *

I would say yes - and that it would apply to gasifiers also. Partly depends on a definition of 'issue' also - there will be smoke & smoulder, but consituting an 'issue' will likely come down to the tolerance of the beholder.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 15, 2016)

I went from a hardy h4 that I ran for 5 years to a heatmaster g200 gassification outdoor boiler. Although I haven't run the pm boiler, I went from 12-13 cords per season to 7.5-8 last year. I did nothing other than switch to a gassification style boiler. If you can afford it go with a gassifier hands down.  What the dealer is talking about as far as "easier" to run is that you have to use <25% wood moisture content.


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## huggmeister (Aug 23, 2016)

Just fired this guy up last night to test the loop. Its a Portage and Main EGR250, and I must say, I am really impressed how clean it burns. Started the initial fire with about 55 degree water, and when the coal bed established, it started to quickly puff out the chimney, went into gasser mode, and the smoke dissappeared, which I thought was cooler than hell. Heat exchanger they use is at least twice as efficient as my old Freedom Outdoor Furnace as well. Its an investment....


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## Endangered Species (Oct 26, 2016)

Please keep me informed on your experience with the EGR P&M.  Is there anyone on here that lives in the Virginia area that has an EGR P&M installed?  How much do you have in the unit turn key?


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## huggmeister (Oct 26, 2016)

Endangered Species said:


> Please keep me informed on your experience with the EGR P&M.  Is there anyone on here that lives in the Virginia area that has an EGR P&M installed?  How much do you have in the unit turn key?


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## huggmeister (Oct 26, 2016)

You are welcome to call me during the day with any questions on my egr250


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## S.Whiplash (Oct 26, 2016)

huggmeister said:


> Just fired this guy up last night to test the loop. Its a Portage and Main EGR250, and I must say, I am really impressed how clean it burns. Started the initial fire with about 55 degree water, and when the coal bed established, it started to quickly puff out the chimney, went into gasser mode, and the smoke dissappeared, which I thought was cooler than hell. Heat exchanger they use is at least twice as efficient as my old Freedom Outdoor Furnace as well. Its an investment....



I swear that looks exactly like a Polar G-Class boiler and the following video confirms they're almost identical.  Did P+M make the boiler or just rebrand it?


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## huggmeister (Oct 26, 2016)

I took a look at the Polar unit at Empire Farm Days, and from what I saw compared to mine.....they looked like they put a whole lot more controls in the back to deal with. That's why I went with the PandM unit. Just enough control to make it a gasser, and a whole lot less to deal with if something goes wrong on it. I am an electrician, so it kind of mattered to me.


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## S.Whiplash (Oct 26, 2016)

huggmeister said:


> I took a look at the Polar unit at Empire Farm Days, and from what I saw compared to mine.....they looked like they put a whole lot more controls in the back to deal with. That's why I went with the PandM unit. Just enough control to make it a gasser, and a whole lot less to deal with if something goes wrong on it. I am an electrician, so it kind of mattered to me.




That's not really the point I was trying to make.  The Polar G-Class design is 4 years old, I believe.  The P+M EGR Optimizer is new, it kind of puts their R+D development into question if they're copying another companies products so closely.


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## huggmeister (Oct 27, 2016)

Point taken. Let's get the legal department involved....I really don't care. Mine burns great.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Same parent company?


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