# Anyone have experience with modular homes?



## timfromohio (Nov 23, 2013)

So I'm now about 95% certain I'll need to relocate - company was purchased and we should get the official word next week that if we want to keep our jobs we'll need to move to the mothership located in Hartford, CT.  No offense to any CT residents, but it's not for me.

We are looking at real estate in areas that are highly likely we'll move to and I was wondering if buying a piece of land outright and building would be an option.  I was reading about modular homes (pre-fabbed, sent in pieces, assembled onsite) and wondered if there really was genuine cost savings to such an option and what the concensus is on build quality.

Thanks for any thoughts or insight!

TimfromOhio (for now)


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 23, 2013)

Good luck Tim. On the homes, it seems around here there are hundreds of them going up. However, not all dealers are good as I'm sure not all of the homes are good. On the other hand, we have one dealer close to us that has made a fortune selling and setting them up. I've heard nothing bad about them or the homes they sell. On the other hand, we had another dealer very close and heard nothing but bad about him. I also know many who live in modulars and for the most part are very happy. Methinks most times you get what you pay for.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 23, 2013)

I have a friend that had a two story one put up 15 years ago. He loves it. Good and tight and insulated to beat the band.


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## semipro (Nov 23, 2013)

In general modulars have to be built pretty well to handle the trip to the site. Many are built indoors which can result in some very nice construction.
The problems I've seen with them have to do with the interface between modules.  I saw one where the seams were obvious and obtrusive. 
A recent This Old House episode done where Hurricane Sandy hit featured a modular installation that looked very good.  They left the drywall off in the seam areas and then installed the drywall after placement on site for an invisible transition.  I assume they did something similar with the flooring or perhaps its put down after the house is set up on site.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 23, 2013)

In theory it should be better than stick built.  I did a few mortgages on them and you'd never know it was a modular unless they told you.  I'd buy one.  I bet it is true that you get what you paid for though.  

Matt


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## Highbeam (Nov 24, 2013)

What are you supposed to do during the long process of getting the site permitted and the construction done? Live in a hotel? Onsite in a trailer? Rent a house? You'll need to sell your current home and move your family.

If renting, you may as well take your time and find what you want.You don't need a modular but that option isn't terrible. I've seen some that are awesome, usually because they built a basement and then set the home on top.


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## peakbagger (Nov 24, 2013)

I have modular, its a two story full dormered cape. Its actually hybrid, the bottom floor was completely finished while the second floor was panelized walls with a stick built roof. The main floor modules were very rugged, the sheetrock in the ceiling is actually glued on with foam. Compared to site built they can be built to tighter tolerances but they aslo can be subject to shortcuts. Even though dry wall screws were standard when mine was built, they used drywall nails in places and I have some nail pops. The electrical and plumbing was also first rate. With mine, the entire electrical panel came connected with a big coil of cables so once the house was in place the main panel was attached to the wall and once I made the main utility hookup I had power. 

Some tradeoffs inherent with the house is the wall between the sections is going to be thick. Any doors through the sections will have extra wide door casings. The two sections move independently. I have had an ongoing battle with cracks in ceiling sheetrock that bridges the two sections. The house was delivered with 2 foot wide strip of unfinished wall and ceiling so that a 2' wide piece of sheetrock could be put in place. I have found that it looks good for about a year and then the joints crack. I ended up gutting the wall and spanning the joint with 12 foot sheets and its holding up well but with regards to the ceiling I wish I had just put in fake beam. I am considering having a new ceiling place over the old one to fix it for good.

The big plus is the day the house is put in place it was  generally weather tight with doors that could be locked. I bought mine years ago during a housing boom and it got delivered quite late in the season, actually it was put in place the day after Thanksgiviing. The broker made it weathertight and I was living in it in about two weeks as I did all the plumbing, heating and sewer hookups on nights and weekends.. 

There are all different sorts of quality out there and the only way to figure it out is to inspect several different companies. I also specified and approved known brand windows and doors and required 100% cedar siding. I didnt spec electrical fixtures and they were contractor grade, look good but not great quality. 

I would do it again


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## timfromohio (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for all of the input thus far. 

Highbeam - my main attraction to modular is cost.  We'll have to figure out short-term housing regardless as I want to get the lay of the land prior to settling.  Just trying to save money.


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## Highbeam (Nov 24, 2013)

You'll be wise to find out when a home moves from being a modular/mobile/double wide to being a real house in the eyes of your mortgage lender and also in the eyes of all mortgage lenders since as we all know, mobiles depreciate with age and houses appreciate. Mobile homes are no more or less mobile than a modular, they both have foundations. The lines are now blurred but you don't want to be stuck trying to sell a mobile for the price of a stick built with buyers that can't get loans on it.

Move in and get the lay of the land. Look at what is out there for used homes. In my area, your buying dollar goes a long long ways right now. Building your own on vacant land is something you do when the housing market rewards your efforts with immediate equity. That's not now.


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## Butcher (Nov 24, 2013)

Here in my neck of the woods there are 2 companies that sell mod homes. Thier quality has gone up dramatically in the past 20 years and I thought about getting 1 myself back in 2001. That being said, I would set down and sharpen a pencil and run some figures. While the initial cost of the home and the easy move in almost right away thing might sound good there are alot of other costs to consider. Basement, getting utilities run to the homesite, the building lot itself if its anything like it is here could cost more than a home for sale that is already on the market. Myself, I'm glad I didnt pull the trigger on 1 cuz even though I was going to build on 27 acres of family owned farm ground by the time it was all said and done I woulda been in a financial hole so deep I coulda never got out of it in 1 piece. Do your homework.


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## btuser (Nov 24, 2013)

When you build a house the best thing to do is let the land tell you what to do.  

When I priced it the two quotes I received were higher than traditional builds, but it will differ depending on the site and your desired floor plan.  It really depends on whether you're planning to DIY or working with a contractor.  The hardest part for either a DIY or GC around here is the land.  After that you're either going to have to do it cash or find a bank that will roll the dice on a construction loan, and most won't do that for a DIY without a proven track record of being able to finish a house.  

It's hard in the Northeast to build a new house.  All the good spots were taken 300 years ago, then 200, then 100, then came excavators and we started putting them where we shouldn't.  If you know EXACTLY where you want to live and EXACTLY what you want then it may be worth it to you to build, but my advice would be to buy/rent until you're sure or you have special needs (wheelchairs, multiple wives, panic rooms).  I've been told by more than a few builders you get more for your money when you buy used vs build new, and there's still plenty here on the market.


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## greg13 (Nov 24, 2013)

A modular is nothing but a stick built home that was built inside a warehouse and shipped to your site. Stop and think about it, It was built in the best possible weather conditions, nothing got wet during the build.


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## timfromohio (Nov 24, 2013)

greg13 said:


> A modular is nothing but a stick built home that was built inside a warehouse and shipped to your site. Stop and think about it, It was built in the best possible weather conditions, nothing got wet during the build.


 

One of the things I liked about the modular concept.


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## Highbeam (Nov 24, 2013)

greg13 said:


> A modular is nothing but a stick built home that was built inside a warehouse and shipped to your site. Stop and think about it, It was built in the best possible weather conditions, nothing got wet during the build.


 
This can be a good thing or a bad thing. In a house factory there is always some bean counter trying to improve the bottom line. Everything from limiting the number of fasteners used to minimizing the amount of material to just barely meet code. There is a minimum wage dude who is tasked with doing a mundane job with an ever shrinking amount of time to do it. Just because there is the opportunity for a superior build does not mean that the money will be spent on that.


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## peakbagger (Nov 25, 2013)

The comparison between factory build and stick build isn't black and white. A stick build like a factory build is only as good as the crews building it. In my area the quality and code compliance by the local stick built contractors is pretty marginal. Many have very small crews and use exclusively independent contractors to avoid insurance issues. Many towns don't have inspectors or require Certificates of Occupancy, I have observed in my town which has a very high design snow load that many local contractors stick with standard roof framing which is rated for half the required load. Of course there are good contractors around but they are hard to find and even they are dependent on what they have for crewing. A factory has some of the same issues, but they do have to do independent on site inspection in order to sell them and they are probably more concerned about their long term reputation.

I think it comes down to, both methods have their pros and cons.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 25, 2013)

In the province where I live, modular/prefabs are the new "it". Better costs, etc. Considering my provincial building code is one of the most strict in North America (new one required R25 outside walls!! MUST have HVAC air exchanger, bla bla bla) this is the best way to save SOME money. I currently live in a bungalow that came in 2 pieces and you could not tell by looking at the finished product. (see pics) No issues with it whatsoever.

Banks love prefabs. Why? because you normally sign a contract with a price. Whereas with a contractor there is always a 10-20% "over run" cost that can show up. We have also had constructions strilkes (all tradespeople in this province are unionized) so you have a 1-2-3-4-5 week stoppage on site construction!

As mentioned, any house will vary depending on the ability of the builders. Some don't care and some take pride.

Here are some companies that make modulars/kits houses in my local area. They do great work.
http://www.maisonsbonneville.com/our-houses
http://www.hmcmaison.com/en/
http://www.maisonlaprise.com/en

Andrew


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## Highbeam (Nov 26, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> In the province where I live, modular/prefabs are the new "it". Better costs, etc. Considering my provincial building code is one of the most strict in North America (new one required R25 outside walls!! MUST have HVAC air exchanger, bla bla bla) this is the best way to save SOME money. I currently live in a bungalow that came in 2 pieces and you could not tell by looking at the finished product. (see pics) No issues with it whatsoever.
> 
> Banks love prefabs. Why? because you normally sign a contract with a price. Whereas with a contractor there is always a 10-20% "over run" cost that can show up. We have also had constructions strilkes (all tradespeople in this province are unionized) so you have a 1-2-3-4-5 week stoppage on site construction!
> 
> ...


 
Great post andy. I love how the roof pitches are traditional now instead of flatter like double wides.

If the modular builder wants to, they can build a superior product.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks Highbeam!

In my case, modular home companies are much MUCH more popular than before. In Quebec the reason is simple: on a worksite (non-prefab) you pay $10 000 in labour a week. however when built in a wearhouse, they don't charge the same rate. They are building an ITEM and not a RESIDENCE since there is only carpentry completed (no running water or electricity, it is simply a module and is not livable). However on site, they charge $2000/day to put it together.


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## tekguy (Nov 26, 2013)

timfromohio said:


> So I'm now about 95% certain I'll need to relocate - company was purchased and we should get the official word next week that if we want to keep our jobs we'll need to move to the mothership located in *Hartford, CT.*  No offense to any CT residents, but it's not for me.
> 
> We are looking at real estate in areas that are highly likely we'll move to and I was wondering if buying a piece of land outright and building would be an option.  I was reading about modular homes (pre-fabbed, sent in pieces, assembled onsite) and wondered if there really was genuine cost savings to such an option and what the concensus is on build quality.
> 
> ...


#2 on this years top ten worst cities in the US
Springfield mass 25 minutes north was #1

this is according to this site:
http://www.areavibes.com/library/top-10-worst-cities-to-live-2013/


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## Dave A. (Nov 26, 2013)

I've been watching that This Old House modular house build mentioned earlier, pretty closely and there certainly are issues.  They just finished it up this week and the woman who had her flood damaged NJ shore house torn down and replaced with the modular cape didn't seem as thrilled about it all as the TOH moderator prompting her.  She wanted to make it clear there were lots of costs that she ended up being responsible for (rather than the modular company) which added up to being quite significant.

From what I could see, these modulars are limited to moderately sized houses and not with huge rooms.  I suspect you're not going to see more than basically a double wide so limited to a width of 24' (they said they could do 14 footers so that should be 28', but they didn't do it here.  Can/do they do 3 wides? dunno.   

Also, rather than floor trusses or those I beam type joists (with osb) which allow large unsupported spans and open spaces one sees in stick built new construction, these houses are much more traditional in layout and closed in.  I was struck by how in the living room with the stair to the 2nd floor running up one wall, in most houses, that stair would have been open to the living room, with a decorative railing and the wider steps encompassing the wall, but here in this modular the stairway was all closed in like a utility stair.

Maybe it was the comparison to the other NJ shore rebuilds, TOH featured with this one, where the construction of this modular house, when you look close, just had a much cheaper feel to it, though certainly nothing like the old "double wide" mobile home.

It was interesting to see how it was done.  The two modules for the first floor almost completely finished (h/w flooring added later because of having to bridge the seam I suppose), and the second floor with a part of the roof on a hinge (the part no wider than 12') the 2 doghouse dormers built but not attached and the rest of the 2nd floor had to be stick framed.


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## timfromohio (Nov 26, 2013)

tekguy said:


> #2 on this years top ten worst cities in the US
> Springfield mass 25 minutes north was #1
> 
> this is according to this site:
> http://www.areavibes.com/library/top-10-worst-cities-to-live-2013/




No offense, but taxes are almost as high in taxachusetts and personal liberties are almost as compromised.  My wife is from Western Mass. and I don't think is interested in returning.


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## shoot-straight (Nov 26, 2013)

there are good and bad, just like stick built. my stick built isnt that good. my neighbors modular is pretty darn nice. 

biggest thing is making sure you get any modification plans straight first. making some modifications to a modular after the fact is tough (expensive)


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## peakbagger (Nov 26, 2013)

In NH a modular can be 28 feet wide or wider if you want more than two sections (14' wide max with permits). The trade off is that you cant have a clear span basement as the joint between the two halves will require support posts. They can get quite complex, I have seen triple deckers made in 8 modules (3 sets of two for the main floors and two half sections for the roof ). In the case of three wide they ship a center section of whatever width is needed and generally the roof may be a couple of sections.

As for TOH, I expect the property owner was getting a deal on the modular home, but along with the home there are a lot of other costs that I expect are a shock to some folks. Supposedly TOH has a gag order in place with homeowners that get featured. They reportedly aren't allowed to comment on things that didn't work so well for the length of the project and many years after. This supposedly got tightened up at one point where they got lots of bad publicity over a project that didn't go so well.  I haven't chased the source of this rumor down but it sounds reasonable.  

Modulars will generally have pretty generic trim detail unless you ask for more. l had a three sided angle bay shipped with mine for one wall. If I did it over again I would have had it shipped with building wrap and did upgraded siding and window details. In many cases, its best to delete something if there is desire to go custom as what they do best is build to standard design. In my case I just wanted a well built house that I could get in quickly. Been here for 25 years and still haven't finished the place. I did order cedar siding with mine and the optional price was about half of what I would have paid locally for real nice long span clear western red. They covered the front and rear lower walls and I installed the rest that was piled up inside when it was shipped.

Many of the homes in my neighborhood are from various modular firms, there are some real basic homes and some nice homes and a few basic homes that were upgraded. Just like cars, some folks want Kias and some want Buicks. Mine is an Epoch http://www.epochhomes.com/ (which also has been on TOH). These folks have been doing it for 50 years http://mainecedarloghomes.com/

There are some higher end modular firms that can go quite custom but once you get away from the basic box, its time to consider panelized construction either wood or ICF. Acorn homes used to be a high end modular supplier one of them.

This report may be of interest on durability.

http://www.acorndevelopment.com/Hurricane_Andrew_Report.pdf


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## Swedishchef (Nov 26, 2013)

16 feet wide is what is permitted in Quebec: so 2 modules is 32 feet wide, that  is what my house is.


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## Dave A. (Nov 26, 2013)

peakbagger said:


> This supposedly got tightened up at one point where they got lots of bad publicity over a project that didn't go so well.



I remember the one you're probably referring to. The realtor owner wanted to restore a mid 19th century house.  Norm looked at the addition and said, 'better to tear it down and rebuild it, the floors will be level.' On the final episode, the owner was finally back after a long absence (he later sued TOH) and told Bob Villa (two hosts prior to the present host), "I wanted a restoration and you gave me a gut rehab," they left that in.

It was a much better show for diy'ers in those days (imo), though without the gloss. They showed you everything. Told you in detail how to do things.  Now the camera carefully avoids things that didn't go right or they don't want you to see.


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## peakbagger (Nov 27, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> It was a much better show for diy'ers in those days (imo), though without the gloss. They showed you everything. Told you in detail how to do things. Now the camera carefully avoids things that didn't go right or they don't want you to see.


 
Like many other home shows, they have gone the 'rehab porn approach' . I am always curious how many divorces are related to rehabs gone bad based on TV shows. For awhile they would talk budget but it was hard to do as much of the materials and specialty labor were payments in kind.  Its always interesting to see power tools, cap and t-shirt blacked out with electrical tape if the show isn't making a buck on it. I expect Norms woodshop got a lot of freebies.


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## tekguy (Nov 27, 2013)

timfromohio said:


> No offense, but taxes are almost as high in taxachusetts and personal liberties are almost as compromised.  My wife is from Western Mass. and I don't think is interested in returning.


that was a ten worst list, not a ten best 


if western Mass wasnt ruled by the idiots in Boston it would be a great place to live, you can split mass in 2 - east of Worcester and west of Worcester... like 2 different states


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## Dave A. (Nov 27, 2013)

peakbagger said:


> In NH a modular can be 28 feet wide or wider if you want more than two sections (14' wide max with permits). The trade off is that you cant have a clear span basement as the joint between the two halves will require support posts. They can get quite complex, I have seen triple deckers made in 8 modules (3 sets of two for the main floors and two half sections for the roof ). In the case of three wide they ship a center section of whatever width is needed and generally the roof may be a couple of sections.



So apparently with a two story (modules on top of modules) you'd have to have ceiling joists for the first floor under floor joists for the second floor.  Can't picture that.

And with a triple then, you'd need posts/lallys all over the basement.  They didn't give a good indication of this last TOH  example of what a basement would be like since the house was set on pilings and they tend to be everywhere -- support vs. clear spans.   Triples must be rare/discouraged, really would complicate the layout, like the double width walls-- apparently having to make every module structurally sound (to withstand the transport movements).


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## timfromohio (Nov 27, 2013)

tekguy said:


> that was a ten worst list, not a ten best
> 
> 
> if western Mass wasnt ruled by the idiots in Boston it would be a great place to live, you can split mass in 2 - east of Worcester and west of Worcester... like 2 different states


 

Since I started this thread, I feel fine continuing on the tangent!

I agree.  Same thing in NY.  Western NY is beautiful, but ruled by morons on Long Island.  It's on the naughty (won't move to) list as well.


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## mithesaint (Nov 27, 2013)

timfromohio said:


> Since I started this thread, I feel fine continuing on the tangent!
> 
> I agree.  Same thing in NY.  Western NY is beautiful, but ruled by morons on Long Island.  It's on the naughty (won't move to) list as well.



Amen to that.  I lived outside of Buffalo for 4 years and loved it there, but hated the taxes and it was too far from family.

Fun fact...the house I lived in in Buffalo and the house I'm in the process of buying here carry the same property tax bill...House in Buffalo was 1325 sq ft on a 50x130 lot.  House here is 3950 sq ft on a 7.4 acre riverfront lot.  $4500 per year for each house.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2013)

Well I can see where this one is headed. 

Closing.


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