# Smell won't go away on new stove



## mincus (Jan 13, 2017)

I had a new quadrafire 3100 installed about a month ago.  I love the heat it puts out, but am concerned with the lingering smell.

The first few fires had a very strong chemical smell.  I knew this was normal and wasn't concerned.  I opened the windows.  However, I've been burning for about a month now and the smell is still there, although not as strong as it was before.  I think (but am not completely sure) the smell now is the same smell from the beginning.  It's not bad enough to keep the windows open, but it's definitely still a concern.  I have started having chest pains in this time (may or may not be related).  My wife complains of occasional headaches.  So, we're pretty worried.

The smell doesn't typically happen with a small fire.  But when the stove top gets around 550F on the top surface (measured with an IR thermometer), that seems to be about the point that I get the smell.  It spreads throughout the house and tends to collect in certain areas (seems to follow the heat).  I have had the stove quite a bit hotter than that several times, which I thought would have cured the paint by now.

Is it normal to still have a smell a month in?  It was a floor model that I bought that had apparently been on the floor of the store for 2 years (never fired in the store).  So, maybe they put more paint on it than a non-floor model would have (in order to keep it looking nice on the floor).

Any thoughts?  I'm very frustrated because I love the stove, but am very worried about the smell.

Thanks in advance.


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## webby3650 (Jan 13, 2017)

Have you ran the stovetop up to 700 or 750 yet?


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## mincus (Jan 13, 2017)

One time I had a bit of a run away fire and it got up a bit above 800 on the top.


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## webby3650 (Jan 13, 2017)

The smell should be gone then. It's not smoke you are smelling but a chemical smell correct?


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## mincus (Jan 13, 2017)

Correct.  Definitely not a smoke smell.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 14, 2017)

Paint curing / peanut oil burning off should not be causing chest pains, log off of this site and go to the doctor asap, also the smell might not be coming from the stove since you said you have ran it hot, it still might be lingering from the chimney pipe.


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## JA600L (Jan 14, 2017)

Do you  have a carbon monoxide detector on the house?


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## mincus (Jan 14, 2017)

I actually already went to the ER for the chest pain.  Everything checked out totally fine.

I have three different CO detectors all hooked up (was thinking that could be the problem).  None of them have gone off.  I was considering getting one with a digital readout to make sure the number is zero.  Not sure if that's necessary.

Last night it got up to a bit over 700 again.  The smell was pretty bad.  I put my head over the stove itself and could smell the smell coming off it with the heated air.

Honestly I'm at a loss and very frustrated.  I have no idea why this could still be happening.  

Should I run it really hot for an extended period of time and see if that helps?  It has gotten that hot quite a few times now, but typically only for 20-30 minutes or so.

Thanks everyone for the help.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2017)

Be careful you don't fly to close to the sun. If you are going to run hot stay close to keep from overburn.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 14, 2017)

Do you have a pipe thermometer installed. Just shooting from hip here is the pipe hitting new temps and maybe the paint from that. Seems like you shouldn't have a issue a month in


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## moresnow (Jan 14, 2017)

What flavor is your fuel supply?


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## Marshy (Jan 14, 2017)

mincus said:


> One time I had a bit of a run away fire and it got up a bit above 800 on the top.


Why is 800 considered run away in your opinion, does the manual say 800F is over fire condition? Unless the door was ajar just running it on high won't result in an over fire condition. The manufacture often protects the stove from over fire with the stove air control. So unless you have tampered with it or were operating it with the door cracked I don't think it was too hot. I'd suggest you pack the firebox full, set it to high and let it run its course. Only after you've run the stove on max output for a couple of times will it be cured. Thsts my opinion and experience. good luck.


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## mincus (Jan 14, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Be careful you don't fly to close to the sun. If you are going to run hot stay close to keep from overburn.



The stove was pretty new and I was pretty worried.



mitchell721 said:


> Do you have a pipe thermometer installed. Just shooting from hip here is the pipe hitting new temps and maybe the paint from that. Seems like you shouldn't have a issue a month in



No, it's a double walled stovepipe.  It seems the ones I've seen are for single pipe and thus wouldn't be accurate??  They did spraypaint the stovepipe at the end of install.  Although I think I smell the smell coming from the stove itself (I put my face a foot or so above the stove last night and smelled it pretty strong).  Thing is, it smells (although to a lesser extent) everytime it hits 550-600.



moresnow said:


> What flavor is your fuel supply?



Quite a mix actually.  At the beginning I was burning some pine that I had.  Now I'm moving more to hardwoods.  Doesn't seem to have any affect on the smell (except possibly causing different firing temps).



Marshy said:


> Why is 800 considered run away in your opinion, does the manual say 800F is over fire condition? Unless the door was ajar just running it on high won't result in an over fire condition. The manufacture often protects the stove from over fire with the stove air control. So unless you have tampered with it or were operating it with the door cracked I don't think it was too hot. I'd suggest you pack the firebox full, set it to high and let it run its course. Only after you've run the stove on max output for a couple of times will it be cured. Thsts my opinion and experience. good luck.



Well, the stove was very new at the time and that just seemed way too hot to me.  Scary hot.  Maybe that's not too hot to some people, but I'm kind of paranoid.  Initially, there was an issue with the door gasket.  I could actually see a bit of a gap in it (close to an 1/8 of an inch).  So, it was pulling in extra air (this happened right around the time I was figuring out the issue with the door).  They have since come and fixed that issue.


So, do most of you think I should run it really hot for quite a while, and that should help?  Is 700-800 on the top of the stove appropriate?


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## mitchell721 (Jan 14, 2017)

I looked at manual online and I didn't see wht temp they considered over fire for your stove. Unless I overlooked it. But condor fluegard is a good one for double wall that's what I have. It's probe type. Drill a hole on and it's held secure by magnet


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

mincus said:


> The stove was pretty new and I was pretty worried.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I would let er rip for an hour or so.
Are there kids in the house? I've seen where a kid has slipped a little toy under the convection top on a Lopi. Just a thought.


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## Marshy (Jan 14, 2017)

I'd say a 800F surface temp should be around max output of the stove and my BK has areas on the stove that reach that regularly and I burn the stove on high constantly. As long as the door gasket is sealed properly and you don't have an air leak you should be able to operate the stove on max output a few times and get that smell to go away. That's what I would do but that's my opinion.


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

Marshy said:


> I'd say a 800F surface temp should be around max output of the stove and my BK has areas on the stove that reach that regularly and I burn the stove on high constantly. As long as the door gasket is sealed properly and you don't have an air leak you should be able to operate the stove on max output a few times and get that smell to go away. That's what I would do but that's my opinion.


No, you cannot run this stove on max for very long. It will over fire, no doubt about it! It's not a Blaze King..


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

You will need to monitor stove top temps. Put your therm off to one side. You will have hotter temps in the middle, closer to the edge will give a more average temp.


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## Marshy (Jan 14, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> No, you cannot run this stove on max for very long. It will over fire, no doubt about it! It's not a Blaze King..


So does the stoves manual caution you against runing the stove on high? The manufacture generally builds in a fail safe so that you don't damage the unit if you are not bypassing their controls. I'm not an expert I just don't believe a 800 temp is overfire, maybe a good max temp but not overfire. Do you think they stove would melt itself if you run it on high for a full load cycle?


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

Marshy said:


> So does the stoves manual caution you against runing the stove on high? The manufacture generally builds in a fail safe so that you don't damage the unit if you are not bypassing their controls. I'm not an expert I just don't believe a 800 temp is overfire, maybe a good max temp but not overfire. Do you think they stove would melt itself if you run it on high for a full load cycle?


Absolutely, non cats are a totally different animal. It will exceed 800 if left on high.
It won't necessarily melt down, but all the burn tubes and iron in the baffle will glow, and fail prematurely. I also know that Lopi won't offer any warranty to warped or distorted parts.


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## begreen (Jan 14, 2017)

Were any sealing componds used like silicone at the flue collar?


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## Marshy (Jan 14, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Absolutely, non cats are a totally different animal. It will exceed 800 if left on high.
> It won't necessarily melt down, but all the burn tubes and iron in the baffle will glow, and fail prematurely. I also know that Lopi won't offer any warranty to warped or distorted parts.


Does the manual recommend a safe maximum temperature?


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

Marshy said:


> Does the manual recommend a safe maximum temperature?


Any glowing parts void the warranty. 
I think they say not to exceed 700, can't remember for sure.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 14, 2017)

Perhaps the smell is coming from the door gasket repair.  Could it be related to the gasket or the adhesive they used?


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## mincus (Jan 14, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Yes, I would let er rip for an hour or so.
> Are there kids in the house? I've seen where a kid has slipped a little toy under the convection top on a Lopi. Just a thought.



Yes, but they're older, so no toys stuffed in there 



begreen said:


> Were any sealing componds used like silicone at the flue collar?



Doesn't look like any at the flue collar.  There was a caulking used where the flue goes into the wall.  I do know the caulk there does smell, but I don't think that's the issue.  That area doesn't get very hot (maybe 100F).  They used it on the outside as well.  You can smell it if you put your nose right to it.  



webby3650 said:


> Any glowing parts void the warranty.
> I think they say not to exceed 700, can't remember for sure.



It does say that an overfire voids the warranty, but doesn't specify the temp.  It even says to run it on high for 15 minutes a day to keep the flue clean.



BuckyBeaver524 said:


> Perhaps the smell is coming from the door gasket repair.  Could it be related to the gasket or the adhesive they used?



They replaced the entire door.  Apparently it was slightly warped.  But, they didn't take out the gasket at all.


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## webby3650 (Jan 14, 2017)

Running high for 15 minutes won't really do much if anything for you burn poorly the rest of the time. This is old school advice. Not a bad idea though.

In general 700-800 should be the max temp for a steel stove. Most of the Travis manuals mention glowing is a sign of overfire and voids the warranty. I found the parts in the baffle would glow almost every time it ran on high for any length of time.


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## mincus (Jan 16, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Running high for 15 minutes won't really do much if anything for you burn poorly the rest of the time. This is old school advice. Not a bad idea though.



Can you explain what you mean by this?


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## webby3650 (Jan 16, 2017)

mincus said:


> Can you explain what you mean by this?


This isn't really applicable with an EPA stove. With properly seasoned wood you shouldn't have a "dirty" chimney. If you fire up each load of wood to the point that you have good secondary combustion then ruduce the primary air, then there would no reason to run on high for 15 minutes a day. 

15 minutes a day on high would do absolutely nothing to help your chimney stay clean if you are burning the stove improperly or with under seasoned wood for the other 23 hours and 45 minutes.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 16, 2017)

It's the idea that burning hot for 15 min each time burns out the cresote. What I believe he's saying is if you burn it hot for 15 min and then turn your stove down and let the wood just smolder that 15 min is not going to make a difference.


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## mincus (Jan 18, 2017)

Gotcha, thanks.  I'm planning on burning it pretty hot this weekend.  We'll see what effect that has and I'll let you know.  Thanks again for the help.


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## mincus (Jan 21, 2017)

I burned for a few hours today, and of course the smell returned.  I kept it at a pretty consistent 650 (max temp) on the stovetop.  

I can only describe the smell as a bit of a "sweet" smell.  The smell was given off the entire time the stove was above about 550.

When I went outside I got a bit of a whiff of a similar smell.  So, I climbed on the roof to smell what was coming out of the stovepipe.  I would say that smell is somewhat similar to what we're smelling in the house (although a bit "smokier" from the pipe).

Is it possible that the stove could be spilling some smoke out of the top of the stove?  It is the step top model of the 3100, if that makes a difference.  I typically smell the smell coming off of the top of the stove.  If you're wondering if this smell is coming out when I open the door, the answer is no.  It is produced the entire time the stove is burning, even if I have the door closed for several hours.

I'm near my whits end, I just want to figure this out and enjoy our new stove!  Any thoughts are appreciated as always.


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## begreen (Jan 21, 2017)

mincus said:


> Doesn't look like any at the flue collar. There was a caulking used where the flue goes into the wall. I do know the caulk there does smell, but I don't think that's the issue. That area doesn't get very hot (maybe 100F). They used it on the outside as well. You can smell it if you put your nose right to it.


Maybe something will show up if you can post a picture of the installation starting with the stove, then the flue collar, then the connection at the thimble where it goes through the wall


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## mincus (Jan 22, 2017)




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## mitchell721 (Jan 22, 2017)

Well from pictures only thing I can see is the is the caulking at the wall but smelling outside is kind of ruling that out. The pipe seems to be graying pretty quick. I've only used supervent. Maybe that's another brand and that's normal for the brand. How much paint did they use and did they put any paint on exterior chimney. Normally paint curing smell goes away after you hit that temperature. So say you hit 500 then it went away then when you hit 600 you might get a faint smell again. What's the set up look like from outside?


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## Attaboy (Jan 22, 2017)

What does the installer say, has he been back and used his smellomometer to advise you or help you out. Can the selling stove dealer help you with their experience and knowledge on their product. That's why they make profit on the stoves and flue pipe they sell.

Congrats, beautiful looking stove you have there.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2017)

Looks like silicone was used at the outside edge of the wall thimble but that should stay cool enough to not be an issue unless the product was defective.


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## Attaboy (Jan 22, 2017)

Looking at the online manual you can see below the steel stove top that there are air tubes, a 2 piece baffle board covered by a additional ceramic blanket, could there possibly be a foreign object or something stuck in there, could the air tubes or baffle board have accidently been been coated with something, lastly could a bird, bat, mouse, squirrel, martin or raccoon have slid their way down the chimney there somehow, just trying to eliminate possibilities here as we have had 2 birds and one huge bat move completely down the chimney and nest at the top of our stove, fortunately it was late summer and early fall and we could hear them in there and we were able to remove them before BarBQ'ing them.


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Jan 22, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> No, you cannot run this stove on max for very long. It will over fire, no doubt about it! It's not a Blaze King..



So why would a bk be any different. What am I missing here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mitchell721 (Jan 22, 2017)

Tube stoves are a different animal if you leave the air open all the way which is high it will certainly overheat


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2017)

BK stoves are catalytic and they have thermostatic regulation that prevents overfiring according to posts in the BK operation thread.


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## webby3650 (Jan 22, 2017)

husky345 vermont resolute said:


> So why would a bk be any different. What am I missing here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because a BK has a thermostatic control that regulates the maximum output. It prevents the stove from overheating. Non-cats will very easily overfire if left unattended on high. With a load of dry wood and plenty of air it can be a volatile situation. The temperature will continue to climb to and beyond safe temps very quickly.


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## Squisher (Jan 22, 2017)

Well really that would be brand specific somewhat like it is in cat stoves too. 

I know my newer PE summit thermostatically regulates some air through the ebt2 tech and it will get super super hot if left on high but won't dramatically overfire. 

Ask me how I know?  Lol. 

OP could I bother you for a pic showing the stove and the whole connecting pipe?


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Jan 22, 2017)

Huh interesting 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## webby3650 (Jan 22, 2017)

Squisher said:


> Well really that would be brand specific somewhat like it is in cat stoves too.
> 
> I know my newer PE summit thermostatically regulates some air through the ebt2 tech and it will get super super hot if left on high but won't dramatically overfire.
> 
> ...


Doesn't that just regulate secondary air?


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## Squisher (Jan 22, 2017)

I'm not saying it functions at all like a thermostatically controlled stove, and I wouldn't depend on it in anyway. Also obviously everyone's setup/chimney is different which is a factor but for me my stove/setup is almost fool proof in that I have left the stove on high for probably 45min after loading right up. Got outside and then someone stopped by and we visited outside for awhile before the light bulb came on. It was overfiring but nothing seemed to be glowing and I simply turned the air down and it slowly crept down from 850+ stovetop and my auber ring thermocouple on the outside of single wall connecting pipe 12"s above the collar was in the 750 range.

Not much for curing smells left after that run I think. But the stove is fine and my home is too.


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## Squisher (Jan 22, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Doesn't that just regulate secondary air?



Yes. But without as robust secondaries I don't feel the stove gets as hot. So I figure it closing some supply when overheated helps limit overfiring as compared to secondary stoves that don't do this.


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## Squisher (Jan 22, 2017)

Also have to correct myself. Was just reading about it again and the ebt2 isn't temperature controlled it's regulated by draft.  Which is driven by temperature, but the ebt2 itself is not thermostatically controlled.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes. The ebt2 is essentially a barometric draft regulator on the secondary air supply.


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## mincus (Jan 26, 2017)

I ran it around 650-700 for most of last Sunday.  It did smell again, but it seemed that as the day went on, the smell seemed to diminish somewhat.  I haven't fired it up since then, but am planning on again this weekend.  I'll let you all know what happens.



Attaboy said:


> What does the installer say, has he been back and used his smellomometer to advise you or help you out. Can the selling stove dealer help you with their experience and knowledge on their product. That's why they make profit on the stoves and flue pipe they sell.
> 
> Congrats, beautiful looking stove you have there.



I'm planning on getting them out here if it doesn't resolve itself soon.



Attaboy said:


> Looking at the online manual you can see below the steel stove top that there are air tubes, a 2 piece baffle board covered by a additional ceramic blanket, could there possibly be a foreign object or something stuck in there, could the air tubes or baffle board have accidently been been coated with something, lastly could a bird, bat, mouse, squirrel, martin or raccoon have slid their way down the chimney there somehow, just trying to eliminate possibilities here as we have had 2 birds and one huge bat move completely down the chimney and nest at the top of our stove, fortunately it was late summer and early fall and we could hear them in there and we were able to remove them before BarBQ'ing them.



I haven't looked in the top (difficult to do), but even if there was something in there, that smell should theoretically be trapped in the firebox and go out with the smoke, correct?  I'm not quite sure exactly how the top there is constructed, but it should be sealed so as not to let gases into the house.  I'm assuming anyways


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## mincus (Jan 29, 2017)

Ok, time for an update.  I burned again today, and alas, the smell is back just as strong as ever.  I have already placed an email to my installer and am hoping to get them out.  If burning near 700 for as many hours as I did didn't solve it, then I don't know what will.  To say I'm frustrated is an understatement.

On another issue, while I have them out I'm going to ask about the noises the stove makes.  I haven't mentioned it to this point because the smell was far more concerning to me.  Please take a look at the following video and let me know if these cracking/creaking noises are normal.  First, some extra info:
- The noises are there for most of the duration of the burn, so I don't think they're the normal expansion/contraction noises.
- They seem more common and frequent if I have some of the air intakes open
- They seem to be related to airflow.  Often when I open the door, close the door, change one of the airflow knobs, etc, that drastically changes the amount of noise.



You can see in the video the huge change in knocking when I sealed the door shut (at the start of the video, the door was slightly open, then I locked it down).  Even without the fire getting bigger/smaller in that short time (and thus, this shouldn't just be expansion/contraction), the amount of noise drastically increased.

I'm assuming when they come out, they're going to tell me these noises are perfectly normal and will explain it by saying it's expansion/contraction.  So, I guess my main question is, is that true?

Thanks again all.


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## webby3650 (Jan 29, 2017)

mincus said:


> Ok, time for an update.  I burned again today, and alas, the smell is back just as strong as ever.  I have already placed an email to my installer and am hoping to get them out.  If burning near 700 for as many hours as I did didn't solve it, then I don't know what will.  To say I'm frustrated is an understatement.
> 
> On another issue, while I have them out I'm going to ask about the noises the stove makes.  I haven't mentioned it to this point because the smell was far more concerning to me.  Please take a look at the following video and let me know if these cracking/creaking noises are normal.  First, some extra info:
> - The noises are there for most of the duration of the burn, so I don't think they're the normal expansion/contraction noises.
> ...



The noises are normal for a steel stove. When you increase/decrease the air or open the door you are changing the temperature in the firebox. It happens, I also know that the sounds are greatly exaggerated on a video than in real life. I have taken several videos of my stoves over the years, I only noticed the ticking in the video, not so much in real time.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 29, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> The noises are normal for a steel stove. When you increase/decrease the air or open the door you are changing the temperature in the firebox. It happens, I also know that the sounds are greatly exaggerated on a video than in real life. I have taken several videos of my stoves over the years, I only noticed the ticking in the video, not so much in real time.


Well, I don't know about steel stoves so much, but if it makes the OP feel any better, my Progress Hybrid pings and makes creaking noises all the time.  It has been doing it since it was brand new with no ill effects that I have observed.  _Watch, now that I have said that, the damn stove will collapse right on my hearth._


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## webby3650 (Jan 29, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> Well, I don't know about steel stoves so much, but if it makes the OP feel any better, my Progress Hybrid pings and makes creaking noises all the time.  It has been doing it since it was brand new with no ill effects that I have observed.


Certainly doesn't hurt anything.
The PH has a steel firebox under the stone correct?


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 29, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Certainly doesn't hurt anything.
> The PH has a steel firebox under the stone correct?


You know I could be totally wrong, but I believe the stove is soapstone with a cast iron frame.  The  plate on the ceiling for the secondaries  is stainless steel I believe.


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## moresnow (Jan 29, 2017)

mincus said:


> They did spraypaint the stovepipe at the end of install.



Ask the installer what they used for paint. I've only installed a handful of stoves but never had to re-apply fresh paint? Seems a bit odd to me? Double wall with odd ball paint perhaps? I get that smell when I turn mine down to early (want to leave the house etc.) Believe my stink comes from the cat temp probe. Possibly. Never lasts to long or causes the missus to complain I understand my unit is different. Shooting from the hip here! Don't give up...


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## webby3650 (Jan 29, 2017)

moresnow said:


> Ask the installer what they used for paint. I've only installed a handful of stoves but never had to re-apply fresh paint? Seems a bit odd to me? Double wall with odd ball paint perhaps? I get that smell when I turn mine down to early (want to leave the house etc.) Believe my stink comes from the cat temp probe. Possibly. Never lasts to long or causes the missus to complain I understand my unit is different. Shooting from the hip here! Don't give up...


We need to do some touch up paint on nearly every new install. In particular, double wall pipe slip sections will scratch when slipped. Often times stoves have cardboard rub too that needs touched up.


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## Squisher (Jan 29, 2017)

That did sound pretty loud in the vid to me. But my stove pings and dings a bit too. 

I have the same washer or dryer too.  Lol.


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## rdust (Jan 29, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Certainly doesn't hurt anything.
> The PH has a steel firebox under the stone correct?



Correct


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## rdust (Jan 29, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> You know I could be totally wrong, but I believe the stove is soapstone with a cast iron frame.  The  plate on the ceiling for the secondaries  is stainless steel I believe.



Totally wrong.    Fireview and keystone are built that way along with others I figure.  PH is what I consider their first steel stove.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 30, 2017)

rdust said:


> Totally wrong.    Fireview and keystone are built that way along with others I figure.  PH is what I consider their first steel stove.


Glad we got that cleared up..........


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## mincus (Jan 30, 2017)

Well, here is the first official reply from them: 

"Thank you for the information. What you are describing, does not sound abnormal. We get a chemical smell from time to time when we burn our 2 demo models here. But just to be sure, I forwarded your email to management. Soon as I get word back, I will contact you with the information I get."

To say I'm angry is probably an understatement.  I don't know if this is the setup to convince me that it's all normal or what.  I just can't imagine that everytime someone burns a stove, their entire house is supposed to smell like this (it spreads throughout the entire house, except the bedrooms upstairs since we close off the doors).  Every time we burn, we end up opening up all the windows, putting a fan in one, and sucking all the stink out.  It's that bad.  My thought is, if their store always stunk like this, I don't think they would ever sell a single stove.  I know I sure wouldn't have bought one.

So, is there any truth to what he is saying?  Is this in any way "normal?"  Should a properly installed stove ever have ANY smell (with the exception of a whiff of smoke every now and then when you open the door)? 

Any thoughts on where I should go from here?  I'm so frustrated!!  It's two months in and I just want to burn my beautiful new stove


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## Attaboy (Jan 30, 2017)

mincus said:


> Well, here is the first official reply from them:
> 
> "Thank you for the information. What you are describing, does not sound abnormal. We get a chemical smell from time to time when we burn our 2 demo models here. But just to be sure, I forwarded your email to management. Soon as I get word back, I will contact you with the information I get."
> 
> So, is there any truth to what he is saying?  Is this in any way "normal?"  Should a properly installed stove ever have ANY smell (with the exception of a whiff of smoke every now and then when you open the door)?



Well bull, have burned with several stoves, once the stove and flue paints remit their chemicals to the air and the paints, gaskets, adhesives etc. cure and set after 3 burns or so there is no smell, boy what bloody hogwash.

Other than the smoke smell every so often from opening the door too quickly '' THERE IS NO SMELL '' and should be no smell except the odour of wood burning.


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## webby3650 (Jan 30, 2017)

Forgive me if it's been covered already.
You are sure that it's not a smoke smell? Perhaps your draft is poor and you are experiencing some leakage? Smoke that has passed through the secondary combustion system smells way different than just straight smoke that's been spilled from the loading door. 

After the first few fires there shouldn't be any smells so bad you would need to air out the house.


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## Attaboy (Jan 30, 2017)

mitchell721 said:


> I looked at manual online and I didn't see wht temp they considered over fire for your stove. Unless I overlooked it. But condor fluegard is a good one for double wall that's what I have. It's probe type. Drill a hole on and it's held secure by magnet
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am also using a Condar  FLUEGARD with probe for double wall pipe, it is the best I have used out of three purchased specifically for double wall pipe.


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## Blowndiffuser (Jan 30, 2017)

Just a thought, it could be burning dust that you're smelling if the stove is not being used everyday?  If I don't run my stove for a few days it gives of a metallic kind of smell from the dust burning off.  Doesn't last that long but the strength of smell depends on how long the stove has not been used.


----------



## tpenny67 (Jan 30, 2017)

My Lopi does give off a "hot stove" smell when it gets really hot (over 700), and I do think it is due to dust baking off.  It's not objectionable and I don't have to open any windows.

It also makes similar noises as those in the video when it's heating or cooling rapidly, but is generally quiet at a steady temperature.

My old Jotul 118 is being replaced with a Quad 4300 next week, so I really hope the smell is not a Quad thing.


----------



## mincus (Jan 30, 2017)

Attaboy said:


> Well bull, have burned with several stoves, once the stove and flue paints remit their chemicals to the air and the paints, gaskets, adhesives etc. cure and set after 3 burns or so there is no smell, boy what bloody hogwash.
> 
> Other than the smoke smell every so often from opening the door too quickly '' THERE IS NO SMELL '' and should be no smell except the odour of wood burning.



That's kinda what I'm thinking.  I just don't get it.  I guess I need to dig in my heals and prepare for a fight?  We'll see what "management" says.



webby3650 said:


> Forgive me if it's been covered already.
> You are sure that it's not a smoke smell? Perhaps your draft is poor and you are experiencing some leakage? Smoke that has passed through the secondary combustion system smells way different than just straight smoke that's been spilled from the loading door.
> 
> After the first few fires there shouldn't be any smells so bad you would need to air out the house.



No, I'm not sure.  I've pondered that before.  I went to the stove pipe up on the roof and the smell is semi-similar.  I could imagine that could be the case, but I just don't know.  There's not at all a "smoky" smell to it.  It's much more of a sweet smell (if that makes any sense).  I think I have a pretty good draft, but I'm new at all this, so I'm not 100% sure.  I do know the stove pipe gets pretty darn hot.  And the smell actually gets worse as the fire gets bigger (I would think it would be opposite if it was a draft problem??)

The smell seems to come mostly from the stovetop, particularly out of the top "shelf" part of the unit (it's the step-top model).  I'm planning on taking off the back cover to see if maybe something got put in there (this was a floor unit that was on the floor, but not burned, for a couple years).



Blowndiffuser said:


> Just a thought, it could be burning dust that you're smelling if the stove is not being used everyday?  If I don't run my stove for a few days it gives of a metallic kind of smell from the dust burning off.  Doesn't last that long but the strength of smell depends on how long the stove has not been used.



No, I've burned before for days on end with the same smell.  I can't imagine a little bit of dust could make our entire house smell.  And it generally lasts for the duration of the fire.



tpenny67 said:


> My Lopi does give off a "hot stove" smell when it gets really hot (over 700), and I do think it is due to dust baking off.  It's not objectionable and I don't have to open any windows.
> 
> It also makes similar noises as those in the video when it's heating or cooling rapidly, but is generally quiet at a steady temperature.
> 
> My old Jotul 118 is being replaced with a Quad 4300 next week, so I really hope the smell is not a Quad thing.



For your sake, I sure hope not.


----------



## jatoxico (Jan 30, 2017)

Can't say from the inter-web if the smell is paint or what. I know that slight weird chemically smell when you hit very high temps especially first of the season and have sometimes caught a whiff from outside and I don't think I'd mistake that for paint or paint for smoke.

The stove should not be giving off any significant smell from uncured paints and should not be leaking smoke/exhaust so either way the dealer should work on fixing that.

Going on the assumption that its as bad as you say (cannot run stove w/o opening window) then stick to your guns. If they start getting wishy washy I would make clear that you consider this a potential health and safety issue. Just my opinion.


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## webby3650 (Jan 30, 2017)

mincus said:


> That's kinda what I'm thinking.  I just don't get it.  I guess I need to dig in my heals and prepare for a fight?  We'll see what "management" says.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's the chimney set up like? It certainly sounds like a smoke leak. The "sweet" smell has been mentioned before around here with cat stoves mostly.


----------



## mincus (Jan 30, 2017)

jatoxico said:


> Can't say from the inter-web if the smell is paint or what. I know that slight weird chemically smell when you hit very high temps especially first of the season and have sometimes caught a whiff from outside and I don't think I'd mistake that for paint or paint for smoke.
> 
> The stove should not be giving off any significant smell from uncured paints and should not be leaking smoke/exhaust so either way the dealer should work on fixing that.
> 
> Going on the assumption that its as bad as you say (cannot run stove w/o opening window) then stick to your guns. If they start getting wishy washy I would make clear that you consider this a potential health and safety issue. Just my opinion.



I mean, we COULD run without opening the windows, but I'm certainly more concerned with the health consequences of this (whether it's paint, oils, smoke, whatever, it can't be good for us).  Thing is, I think it's actually usually worse than we think it is because we get used to it throughout the day.  This weekend, I started a fire, went downstairs for a few hours, and when I came back up, the smell what pretty powerful, but my wife said she hardly noticed it.  So, even if it doesn't seem to strong to us, I think that's just because we're getting used to it.



webby3650 said:


> What's the chimney set up like? It certainly sounds like a smoke leak. The "sweet" smell has been mentioned before around here with cat stoves mostly.



Here's the inside:



The horizontal part going into the wall goes directly to this outside:


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## jatoxico (Jan 30, 2017)

mincus said:


> I came back up, the smell what pretty powerful, but my wife said she hardly noticed it.


Unless you're there can't say how bad it is but for comparison my setup you would not know there's a fire going. And I know it's not a matter of getting nose blind. We've returned after being out and there's just no smell 99% of the time except the occasional puff of smoke if I open the door too quick before it's up to full temp.

Now the cat box is sometimes another story.


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## webby3650 (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm going to say that you are smelling smoke due to poor draft. You have some stuff working against you here.
Basement installs often struggle, Tee systems also struggle because you have 2 90 degree turns. Outside you've got several rooflines to contend with, that can cause strange wind directions, pressure differences and downdrafts. To sum it up: basement install, tee system, short chimney. These all are working against you here.


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## moresnow (Jan 31, 2017)

Add pipe. Real easy and it won't hurt in my opinion. With the 2X 90 deg. bends, horizontal run, elevated nearby roofline.  I would try more pipe .Reasonably inexpensive possible cure.


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## mincus (Jan 31, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I'm going to say that you are smelling smoke due to poor draft. You have some stuff working against you here.
> Basement installs often struggle, Tee systems also struggle because you have 2 90 degree turns. Outside you've got several rooflines to contend with, that can cause strange wind directions, pressure differences and downdrafts. To sum it up: basement install, tee system, short chimney. These all are working against you here.



That could be.  But if that was the case, wouldn't the smell decrease as the fire got hotter (because the draft would be better??).  

On install date, the installer did mention near the end of the install that draft could be an issue.  He gave the horizontal section some upward slope to try to help out.  I couldn't go straight up out of the stove because then I would be closer than 10 feet to the second story (this stove is actually on the first floor of a 2 story house).  So, if I went straight up, I would have had to take the stove pipe up another 10 feet or so.  They didn't seem to think it was an issue initially to do it this way, in fact, it was by their recommendation.

So, you're thinking that the draft is weak, so smoke is coming out of the top of the stove?  It seems that most of the smell comes out of the sides of the top section of the step-top stove.


----------



## webby3650 (Jan 31, 2017)

mincus said:


> That could be.  But if that was the case, wouldn't the smell decrease as the fire got hotter (because the draft would be better??).
> 
> On install date, the installer did mention near the end of the install that draft could be an issue.  He gave the horizontal section some upward slope to try to help out.  I couldn't go straight up out of the stove because then I would be closer than 10 feet to the second story (this stove is actually on the first floor of a 2 story house).  So, if I went straight up, I would have had to take the stove pipe up another 10 feet or so.  They didn't seem to think it was an issue initially to do it this way, in fact, it was by their recommendation.
> 
> So, you're thinking that the draft is weak, so smoke is coming out of the top of the stove?  It seems that most of the smell comes out of the sides of the top section of the step-top stove.


Afraid so. Look the stove over really well for a bad weld.


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## armanidog (Feb 1, 2017)

Can you pull back the collar on the stove pipe and see if any insulation or sheetrock may be getting scorched by the stove pipe?


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## tpenny67 (Feb 1, 2017)

mincus said:


> So, you're thinking that the draft is weak, so smoke is coming out of the top of the stove?  It seems that most of the smell comes out of the sides of the top section of the step-top stove.



I'm not sure about the smoke in the house theory.  Assuming you have anything resembling a good draft, any leaks should result in air being pulled into the stove.  I have run an old, non-airtight stove that would light up the cabin at night with light leaking out of the cracks and gaps and even with a short single wall chimney it didn't let smoke in once past the initial kindling stage.

When I have seen smoke come into the house due to a draft problem, it's been very obvious and out the air intake.  If you can feel/hear air being pulled into the intake, it's also getting sucked in anywhere else.  And if the wind is interrupting the draft, you should see a dramatic change in how the fire is burning at the same time.

If the smell is coming out of the convection chamber, then we're back to the dust theory.  This stove was a floor model, no?  I'm wondering if it has a couple years worth of accumulation in a hard to reach location.  Is there anyway you can take a peak inside with mirrors and a bright light?  I'm thinking the "mirror on a stick" sold in auto parts stores might be useful here.


----------



## webby3650 (Feb 1, 2017)

tpenny67 said:


> I'm not sure about the smoke in the house theory.  Assuming you have anything resembling a good draft, any leaks should result in air being pulled into the stove.  I have run an old, non-airtight stove that would light up the cabin at night with light leaking out of the cracks and gaps and even with a short single wall chimney it didn't let smoke in once past the initial kindling stage.
> 
> When I have seen smoke come into the house due to a draft problem, it's been very obvious and out the air intake.  If you can feel/hear air being pulled into the intake, it's also getting sucked in anywhere else.  And if the wind is interrupting the draft, you should see a dramatic change in how the fire is burning at the same time.
> 
> If the smell is coming out of the convection chamber, then we're back to the dust theory.  This stove was a floor model, no?  I'm wondering if it has a couple years worth of accumulation in a hard to reach location.  Is there anyway you can take a peak inside with mirrors and a bright light?  I'm thinking the "mirror on a stick" sold in auto parts stores might be useful here.


I'm not referring to straight wood smoke. This "sweet" smell or BBQ smell is exhaust that has passed through the combustion system. Typically anyway...


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## webby3650 (Feb 1, 2017)

How are the windows In your house? When I first bought my house the windows weren't sealing up well and smoke would get drawn in the windows in the outlying rooms.


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## webby3650 (Feb 1, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> How are the windows In your house? When I first bought my house the windows weren't sealing up well and smoke would get drawn in the windows in the outlying rooms.


I forgot you said that you can smell it at the stove. Nonetheless, there's a few threads a season with folks saying they have a sweet or BBQ smell coming from the stove. It's typically a cat or downdraft stove though.


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## moresnow (Feb 1, 2017)

Just another thought. My cap exhausts above a corner install (S.E. corner of house) that means the smoke actually is released below the roof ridge line. Also means my original masonry chimney going up through the ridge line sometimes sucks stove smoke, creo smell back into the house. If the wind is correct smoke,creo. smell can even re-enter the house via the back door being opened.  Naturally this occurred Xmas morning as my daughters family came indoors.... Very odd deal. Odd deal that likely is un-related to your case. You may give your setup a look and consider if exhaust could possibly be re-entering/sucked back into the house. I bought another 2 foot section of class A to play with elevating the exhaust height. So far it is still sitting next to the couch un-installed. Duh


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## mincus (Feb 12, 2017)

So, I took off the back cover to look into the chamber at the top of the stove.  There are two air vents that you can feel air coming out of (while it's burning) on the front of the stove at the "step."  I think this is normal and it's supposed to pull air up and out in this way.  Anyways, that location seems to be where I get the strongest smell.  



I was hoping I would take it off and see some melted toy some kid stuck in there while it was on the floor of the store for two years.  Unfortunately, it wasn't that easy.  I have a few questions though.

1. Biggest question: Is there supposed to be a weld where the pipe (I'm sorry, don't know the correct terms for these parts) comes through the thick steel?  There are welds everywhere else, but it seems odd that there wouldn't be one there.


Here's a view from the inside top.  As you can see, no weld on top or bottom.



2. The welds that are not painted have a pretty rusted color to them.  Is this normal for non-painted areas?



3. On the top, there are hundreds of little beads.  It looks to me like leftovers from the welding.  I'm assuming there's no issue here, but figured I'd ask.  You may need to click on thumbnail to see it bigger.



Unfortunately, we're still waiting for them to have availability to check it out.


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## mincus (Feb 15, 2017)

The installer is coming out on Monday.  Anyone have insight on my above pictures and questions?  Thank you!


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2017)

Was this stove repaired at some point? It seems a little odd that nothing is painted back there. I would not expect to see the raw welds and smoke marks, but I haven't taken the back off of a Quad and maybe that's how they ship them now.


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## mincus (Feb 15, 2017)

begreen said:


> Was this stove repaired at some point? It seems a little odd that nothing is painted back there. I would not expect to see the raw welds and smoke marks, but I haven't taken the back off of a Quad and maybe that's how they ship them now.



Not as far as I know.  It was a floor model that they told me was on the floor for a couple of years, but never used.

Do you have any idea if there should be a weld around that pipe coming out of the top of the firebox?  That's the only thing that stands out to me as a bit odd.


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## Tar12 (Feb 15, 2017)

Somebody is lying...that stove has been repaired. I studied metallurgy for a few years and welded professionally for a number more in a manufacturing environment. That welding job was done after the fact. They did not completely clean the original fillet weld out to my eye and rolled the new weld...the dots are welding splatter..that in its self is not a issue but once again it points to being welded after the fact as everything is usually media blasted for final prep prior to painting..I don't like the smell of this...pun intended.


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## webby3650 (Feb 15, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> Somebody is lying...that stove has been repaired. I studied metallurgy for a few years and welded professionally for a number more in a manufacturing environment. That welding job was done after the fact. They did not completely clean the original fillet weld out to my eye and rolled the new weld...the dots are welding splatter..that in its self is not a issue but once again it points to being welded after the fact as everything is usually media blasted for final prep prior to painting..I don't like the smell of this...pun intended.


I agree. I'm no welder, but I have my hands on new stoves everyday. I've never seen welder smoke marks on a stove, some splatter on occasion, but typically in areas there's no way you could snap a pic..


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## Tar12 (Feb 15, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> I agree. I'm no welder, but I have my hands on new stoves everyday. I've never seen welder smoke marks on a stove, some splatter on occasion, but typically in areas there's no way you could snap a pic..


It is possible that this was done before it left the factory after failing inspection...BUT it is awfully sloppy work and should never have left before being cleaned up. As you noted a small amount of welding splatter can be present as it is sometimes impossible to clean it all up...there was no attempt here..I don't like it...


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## webby3650 (Feb 15, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> It is possible that this was done before it left the factory after failing inspection...BUT it is awfully sloppy work and should never have left before being cleaned up. As you noted a small amount of welding splatter can be present as it is sometimes impossible to clean it all up...there was no attempt here..I don't like it...


I've seen used stoves be returned to the factory for repair that came back in better condition than that.


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## mincus (Feb 15, 2017)

Well, now I really don't know where to go with this, LOL.  I will point out that those welds you see are normally hidden behind the back cover and on the top inside of the stove.  Would an area like that normally be painted?  It's an area that most owner's would never see.

I guess I'm still more concerned with the original issue.  Could smoke be leaking where the stove pipe is coming through that top part?

When they take a look at it on Monday, should I bring up the fact that it appears to be repaired?  Or that I don't think it should be rusted there?  Will those areas rust through before the life of this stove should otherwise be up?  Why would a stove like this have been repaired?


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2017)

I have seen how Travis builds and finishes stoves. All surfaces are painted after welding and cleanup. This looks unfinished or a practice stove. I would expect the flue collar pipe to be welded in too.


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## Tar12 (Feb 16, 2017)

mincus said:


> Well, now I really don't know where to go with this, LOL.  I will point out that those welds you see are normally hidden behind the back cover and on the top inside of the stove.  Would an area like that normally be painted?  It's an area that most owner's would never see.
> 
> I guess I'm still more concerned with the original issue.  Could smoke be leaking where the stove pipe is coming through that top part?
> 
> When they take a look at it on Monday, should I bring up the fact that it appears to be repaired?  Or that I don't think it should be rusted there?  Will those areas rust through before the life of this stove should otherwise be up?  Why would a stove like this have been repaired?


I absolutely would bring it up..I think its a bad weld with porosity(void fraction) in it which in turn is allowing a small amount of smoke to escape upon exspansion.I have seen many items rewelded after failing inspection standards. It is very common practice to save the product. 
You should not be smelling anything this far in with this stove. If it were me they would be replacing it.You should not be expected to put up with this.


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## tpenny67 (Feb 16, 2017)

begreen said:


> I have seen how Travis builds and finishes stoves. All surfaces are painted after welding and cleanup. This looks unfinished or a practice stove. I would expect the flue collar pipe to be welded in too.



Makes me wonder if there was a reason this stove was a floor model.  Could this have been a reject that was never intended to be burned?  Just wild speculation on my part.

Speaking of Travis, my Lopi does have one or two pieces of welding wire still sticking out of a couple welds in the firebox.  They're not anyplace you can see them normally, but if you're running a bare hand around the stove you'll get poked, which is how I found out in the first place.


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## mincus (Feb 17, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I absolutely would bring it up..I think its a bad weld with porosity(void fraction) in it which in turn is allowing a small amount of smoke to escape upon exspansion.I have seen many items rewelded after failing inspection standards. It is very common practice to save the product.
> You should not be smelling anything this far in with this stove. If it were me they would be replacing it.You should not be expected to put up with this.



That definitely could be.  I wonder if that would have anything to do with (what I think is) excessive creaking and cracking from the stove whenever it's burning (there's a video in an earlier post).



tpenny67 said:


> Makes me wonder if there was a reason this stove was a floor model.  Could this have been a reject that was never intended to be burned?  Just wild speculation on my part.



Could be.  I'm just hoping they don't try to convince me that this is all perfectly normal.  That was their first reaction to the smell issue.  I don't think I'll ever burn the stove again in this condition.  The smell is that bad and worrisome.


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## Tar12 (Feb 18, 2017)

mincus said:


> That definitely could be.  I wonder if that would have anything to do with (what I think is) excessive creaking and cracking from the stove whenever it's burning (there's a video in an earlier post).
> 
> 
> 
> Could be.  I'm just hoping they don't try to convince me that this is all perfectly normal.  That was their first reaction to the smell issue.  I don't think I'll ever burn the stove again in this condition.  The smell is that bad and worrisome.


I wouldn't accept anything less than them replacing the stove or refunding my money. The stove is not right regardless of cause. I am funny like that when I don't get what I paid for. Stand your ground on this one.


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## mincus (Feb 18, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I wouldn't accept anything less than them replacing the stove or refunding my money. The stove is not right regardless of cause. I am funny like that when I don't get what I paid for. Stand your ground on this one.



Totally agree with you.  I just know they're going to want to "fix" it first.  Unfortunately I don't know if the rusting and lack of weld around the pipe is normal.  I'm assuming they're going to try to convince me it is.  And that they're the experts.  I also am not quite sure what the smell is.  Although I'm increasingly convinced that it's smoke from the firebox.  If that's the case, that should be all the evidence I need to get it fully replaced.  Of course, they'll probably try to convince me it's due to a bad draft of something.  I don't know, maybe I'm being too pessimistic.  But, the first time I contacted them about the smell, they tried to convince me it's normal.  I told them if their store smelled as strongly as my stove does, they would never sell a single stove.

Unfortunately I can't find any pictures online of that location on other quadrafire stoves to compare.


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## Corey (Feb 18, 2017)

mincus said:


> ...1. Biggest question: Is there supposed to be a weld where the pipe (I'm sorry, don't know the correct terms for these parts) comes through the thick steel?  There are welds everywhere else, but it seems odd that there wouldn't be one there.
> View attachment 194600
> 
> Here's a view from the inside top.  As you can see, no weld on top or bottom.
> ...



If that is the actual pipe carrying flue gas/smoke out of the stove, then YES, it should ABSOLUTELY be welded to the top of the firebox.


mincus said:


> So, I took off the back cover to look into the chamber at the top of the stove.  There are two air vents that you can feel air coming out of (while it's burning) on the front of the stove at the "step."  I think this is normal and it's supposed to pull air up and out in this way.  Anyways, that location seems to be where I get the strongest smell.
> View attachment 194598
> 
> I was hoping I would take it off and see some melted toy some kid stuck in there while it was on the floor of the store for two years.  Unfortunately, it wasn't that easy.  I have a few questions though.
> ...



I can not imagine ANY reason there would NOT be a weld at the pipe joint you mention.  That is the actual flue pipe connected to the firebox at the top the stove, correct? ...not some shield or cover or the flue pipe-to-outer-shell joint?

When I converted my stove from a 'slammer' with a rectangle outlet to a full-lined stove with a 6" flue outlet, I welded that pipe on both the inside and outside of the firebox.  The only thing I could possibly think of would be if it happened to be a tight press fit, so the factory could save $1.50 on welding it or if it had some unseen gasket somewhere.

Regarding the welds you found, that yellow-white powder is typically a sign of stick welding or flux core wire welding.  The 'hundreds of little weld beads' is also somewhat indicative of stick welding - you get a lot of weld spatter.  Though it also suggests the weld parameters were off - likely the weld was too hot causing the spatter instead of the metal laying down in a nice pool.

Either way, it seems a bit fishy to me.  Any modern production line is geared for speed and efficiency.  Stick welding, flux core and a bunch of weld spatter would not typically be in line with speed/efficiency. I suspect at a minimum they would be doing MIG welds and if I had to do it, I would do spray-arc MIG to boost the welding / metal deposition rates even more - that would leave a very clean weld, no spatter and no 'dust'.


----------



## Tar12 (Feb 18, 2017)

Corey said:


> If that is the actual pipe carrying flue gas/smoke out of the stove, then YES, it should ABSOLUTELY be welded to the top of the firebox.
> 
> 
> I can not imagine ANY reason there would NOT be a weld at the pipe joint you mention.  That is the actual flue pipe connected to the firebox at the top the stove, correct? ...not some shield or cover or the flue pipe-to-outer-shell joint?
> ...


It appeared to me that it is flux-core...a technique reserved for outdoor windy/conditions...this doesn't add up to me.


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## Wilbursan (Feb 18, 2017)

I've got a Quad 3100 Millennium. I just stuck a flashlight in the back to see what I could see and my welds don't look much better than yours. There is some slight rusting so they weren't painted after the weld. I don't see a bunch of little beads but then I can only see the back. I can't quite see where the back plate meets the top to inspect the weld. It looks like there's actually a small cover spot welded over that join so even if I take the back cover off I probably still couldn't see it.

As for the pinging, mine pings quite a lot and just as loud. It will stop for a while when the temperature is stable, say an hour or so after loading, then starts pinging again as it slowly cools. On rare occassions I'll hear a loud ping. But other than the first 2-3 fires when the paint cures or the first annual light-up when the dust burns off I've never smelled a thing.


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## jetsam (Feb 18, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> It appeared to me that it is flux-core...a technique reserved for outdoor windy/conditions...this doesn't add up to me.



Why do you say that?

I can see that it's stick welded, but what are you looking at that says 'flux core' to you?

(I am learning welding basics, sorry for the slightly off topic question. . )


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## tpenny67 (Feb 18, 2017)

I tried to snap some pics peaking inside the back of my 4300:







From the first picture, they don't appear to try to paint all their welds.  This stove is only 2 weeks old.  Happy to report most of the smell is gone from mine, though I swear it does have a faint odor of apple cinnamon herbal tea today.  From what I've been able to see in mine, the flue collar is bolted to the top plate of the stove, not welded.


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## Tar12 (Feb 18, 2017)

jetsam said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> I can see that it's stick welded, but what are you looking at that says 'flux core' to you?
> 
> (I am learning welding basics, sorry for the slightly off topic question. . )


Flux core has 2 applications...stick welding as you already know and mig welding with flux core wire...both designed for dirty metal and windy conditions. The mig flux core wire is used with out a cover gas.


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## mitchell721 (Feb 19, 2017)

There's flux core that self shielding and flux thats dual shield that run with gas. Either way not the best looking welds


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## WoodyIsGoody (Feb 19, 2017)

tpenny67 said:


> I swear it does have a faint odor of apple cinnamon herbal tea today.



My stove smells more like ripe berries, old leather and citrus peels. Vintage is 1992.


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## tpenny67 (Feb 19, 2017)

I happened to find this post of another stove that wouldn't stop smelling.  Long story short, two stove replacements later and it was still smelling, so it wasn't the stove's fault in this particular case:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stion-smoke-smell.105261/page-10#post-2147842

The curing paint odor of my new Quad has finally gone away, but it took about 40 hours of burn time for it to happen, not the several hours noted in the manual.  I suspect it takes quite some time for all the paint, particularly on the pedestal, to heat up and cure.


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## jetsam (Feb 20, 2017)

Many people have experienced the paint curing smell coming back every time their stove hits a new high temperature.

I've seen some folks on here burn their break-in loads while the new stove is still outside the house.


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## mincus (Feb 20, 2017)

Well, that went just about exactly as I thought it would.  The tech came in, took the back cover off, looked around and didn't find anything odd.  He used a wet rag to clean out inside top (on top of the firebox).  I asked him about the possible missing weld and he said that there shouldn't be one there because the weld is on the inside.  No idea if that's true or not.

He got his things ready to leave, and told me his job was done.  When I asked him what's next, he didn't really have anything to say.  As far as he was concerned, the job is done.  I again brought up that the smell isn't normal.  He told me that the occasional smell is completely normal.  I told him that wasn't what was happening.  It is constantly giving off a smell.  

He said it could be the type of wood I was burning, because different woods give off different smells.  I questioned why that would matter...shouldn't that smell be contained to the firebox and go out the flue?  I think when I asked this, he realized I wasn't an idiot.  Because he said "well, you know when you open the door, some smell is bound to come out."  I again told him that wasn't the issue....the smell is coming off of the top of the stove, even after the door's been closed for hours.  He told me they've never had this issue before.

He said there was nothing else he could do, but there's nothing that he can see wrong with the unit.  Anything else, the owner of the company would have to come out and check it.  But, he made it sound like that would be a really big deal to do.  So, I was just supposed to accept it.  I told him that his company would never sell a single stove if the units in their stores gave off this smell.  He said the "warranty" work would have to be approved by the store owner and quadrafire.  I asked him to call the owner and set something up.  Long story short, he agreed to let me start the fire and then come back in a couple of hours.  So, that's where we're at now.  He said the owner was also calling quadrafire to see if they've ever had this problem before.

I guess I can't say I'm surprised, just really ticked off...


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## mincus (Feb 20, 2017)

Update 2: A different guy came out and definitely verified the smell.  We could smell it as soon as we came in, which he acknowledged.  I'm glad they at least acknowledged the smell.  Up until this point, everyone I've talked to about it has downplayed it and made it seem as though I was exaggerating.  He agreed that the smell is definitely there and he could smell it as soon as he walked in the door.  This was a big deal in my book.

He believes it is a paint smell and stated that it just hadn't cured enough yet.  Unfortunately, he tried to play it off as though it was no big deal and would go away at some point.  I told him that I had been burning it for over two months and have had PLENTY of hot fires in it.  He didn't really have much to say about that, but talked about how sometimes he has customers call him out that are still getting the smell after a week, and they don't know why.  He said typically they only burn a couple of logs at a time and never get it hot enough to burn off the smell.  He agreed that (based on my current fire) I was burning properly and nice and hot.  He didn't see any other issues with my setup, install, etc.

Several times, he tried to convince me that I should just give it longer and the smell would eventually go away.  He told me the smell isn't dangerous and I should feel confident continuing to burn fires in the stove.  I told him quite bluntly that this smell was not acceptable nearly three months in and that I would not be burning any more fires in it until it is fixed.

He took quite a few pictures of the stove while holding my IR thermometer in the shot.  He was happy with all of the temperature readings.  The plan is to send all of this info to quadrafire and see what they want to do.


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## sportbikerider78 (Feb 20, 2017)

Interesting.  Seems like it just did not cure properly at the factory or the guy in the paint booth mixed too much of something and not enough of the other.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 20, 2017)

My PE Summit is 5 years old now, and will still get a certain smell when it is too hot. I can notice right away, and it's usually when I put in new load of wood, and then get sidetracked and the fire is raging hot. It's one of those "Oh crap" moments. It's definitely not paint curing anymore, it's just the smell of hot steel.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 20, 2017)

I asked him about the possible missing weld and he said that there shouldn't be one there because the weld is on the inside.  No idea if that's true or not.


The weld is on the inside.


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## weatherguy (Feb 20, 2017)

They probably get quite a few calls from new wood burners complaining about the normal smells. Sounds like you convinced at least one guy that what your getting is beyond that. Hopefully they fix this issue for you. 
Did either guy test the draft?


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## mincus (Feb 20, 2017)

weatherguy said:


> They probably get quite a few calls from new wood burners complaining about the normal smells. Sounds like you convinced at least one guy that what your getting is beyond that. Hopefully they fix this issue for you.
> Did either guy test the draft?



Yeah, I'm really happy that he agreed it was an issue.  He did try to convince me on multiple occasions to just keep burning and it would eventually get better.  At almost three months in, I think that's pretty bogus.  But, at least the issue has been officially acknowledged as an issue.

They didn't test the draft, but the second guy seemed satisfied that all was well in that regard.  He looked pretty carefully at the fire I had going and said it was running perfectly.  I really don't think it's a draft issue.


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## begreen (Feb 20, 2017)

Progress. If it is a paint smell and not wood smoke, it could be a bad paint job. There are a number of reasons that this could happen. It could be a bad batch of paint, contamination, improper prep or application. We had a lady many years back with an Osburn that had a defective paint jobs. It release bad odors and flecks of carbon dust all over the living room. She documented extensively and evenually Osburn agreed to exchange the stove. We haven't heard from her since.


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## mincus (Feb 22, 2017)

begreen said:


> Progress. If it is a paint smell and not wood smoke, it could be a bad paint job. There are a number of reasons that this could happen. It could be a bad batch of paint, contamination, improper prep or application. We had a lady many years back with an Osburn that had a defective paint jobs. It release bad odors and flecks of carbon dust all over the living room. She documented extensively and evenually Osburn agreed to exchange the stove. We haven't heard from her since.



Progress indeed.  I forgot to mention: at one point he told me every stove will give off a "hot metal" smell sometimes that smells similar to what I'm currently smelling.  Any truth to that??


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## rdust (Feb 22, 2017)

mincus said:


> Progress indeed.  I forgot to mention: at one point he told me every stove will give off a "hot metal" smell sometimes that smells similar to what I'm currently smelling.  Any truth to that??



Yes, I can always tell/smell when the stove is really cranking.  I've experienced that with my old non cat and my current cat stove.(both steel).


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## mincus (Feb 23, 2017)

Heard back from quadrafire.  They suggested that I burn the stove for 6-8 hours to dissipate the smell.  Maybe I should think of this as a first step and shouldn't be angry.  But I EASILY have several hundred hours of burn time on the stove.  There is no way that another 6-8 hours is going to make a difference.  However, to follow by what they're asking, I have agreed to give it a try and let them know.  It seems everyone involved (the installer and now quadrafire) is working against me.  Everyone I've talked to with the installer seems to agree with me that it's not right, but then when I ask them to do something about it, they're very reluctant.  It's getting incredibly frustrating!  When will I get someone to do what is right?!?!?

The saga continues....


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## tpenny67 (Feb 23, 2017)

Ugh  Take the 6-8 hour suggestion with a grain of salt.  They probably get a lot of calls from people who couldn't be bothered to read the manual, so the first step in tech support is always to read the manual to the customer.  It's too bad you can't record the smell on the video.  Not only would it be really helpful to tech support, but then I could compare the smell to when a mouse died in my car's heater just before it got really cold out.    It sucks to need heat and the heater makes your eyes water.

Also, I work in software and have recently been dealing with a number of whacky customer issues that make no sense, so I also have some sense of what it's like to be on the other side.  I honestly expect Quadrafire and the installer want you to be a happy customer, but they really don't have an easy answer for you.  You may have to take the initiative of making a specific suggestion.  Have you asked them to replace your stove?  Or just asked if they can do "something"?  If you can clearly communicate to them why you are frustrated and what would make you happy, you might be surprised at the result.

It's a tough situation, but keep the faith, be persistent, be polite, and hopefully it will all turn out well in the end.


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## voxland (Feb 24, 2017)

I have read through all these messages and now will ask a different question:  What kind of wood are you burning?   The reason why I ask that is that some years ago I began burning aspen (quaking or trembling aspen).  It's not the best wood in the forest, birch being available and preferred.  However, I soon noticed that there was a peculiar smell from coming from the chimney.  [One of my regrets of our little Jotul F3cb is that it is well sealed so that inside the cabin there isn't a cozy odor from a burning fire].  That smell from the aspen struck me as pleasantly chemical, and yes, I might even say a sort of sweetness to it.    Once when I was up on the roof sniffing the smoke from the chimney I even wondered if I could get "high" from the fumes.  I didn't stay long up there to find out.

I have noticed that aroma when splitting the aspen as well, though not so strong as when it was burned.  So, I agree that the volatile smells from any paint or sealants in a stove really should have burned off long ago.  However if you have been consistently been burning a more "aromatic" wood then of course whenever it is burned then the odor should return.  

I was searching the internet with "smell poplar wood stove" and found very few instances, one person wrote this: "Some fresh deciduous trees like aspen and poplar have a strong aromatic smell. maybe you just smelled that, thought it was something chemical, and had a psychosomatic response? the smell of fresh cut poplar makes me feel nice because I associate it with good times in the woods as a kid."

YMMV.


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## Corey (Feb 25, 2017)

mincus said:


> Progress indeed.  I forgot to mention: at one point he told me every stove will give off a "hot metal" smell sometimes that smells similar to what I'm currently smelling.  Any truth to that??



Around here, in electric / forced air gas furnace land, ...and sometimes wood stove land, we have the 'first heat of the year' smell.  I don't suspect it happens as much with heat pump / hot water and other low-temp systems, but...

People often call this a 'hot metal' smell.  What it really happens is a burn-off of lint, dust, etc which has accumulated on the heating coils / heat exchanger / stove top in the 'off' season.  

Though this really tends to be for the first one or two firings, then maybe if a new 'hot' temperature is reached during the season.  But it is not as persistent as you mention.  Given the age of this thread, it seems you've had dozens of fires with persistent smell?  Seems like you'd need a fairly large mass of material to generate so much smell.  Was there any high temp silicone or aluminum duct tape used in the install?  Anything packed with styrofoam or plastic bags which might be still stuffed in a crevice.  Seems like any coat of paint would be long baked out by now.

Guess another thing to try - if you have a CO detector when can give an actual read-out - wave it around the stove some time you have a big bed of coals built up.  If it picks up anything, you might have a leak from the firebox somewhere.


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## begreen (Feb 25, 2017)

If you get a stove in the 850+ range there is a distinct aroma that clues one to the very hot stove. I've noticed it with every stove we've owned. Could be partially from dust in hidden crevices burning off, not sure. Our little enameled Jotul can take off quickly with dry wood. That smell warns you to pay closer attention.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Feb 25, 2017)

begreen said:


> If you get a stove in the 850+ range there is a distinct aroma that clues one to the very hot stove. I've noticed it with every stove we've owned. Could be partially from dust in hidden crevices burning off, not sure. Our little enameled Jotul can take off quickly with dry wood. That smell warns you to pay closer attention.



So true. Mostly just old dust burning off from areas of the stove that haven't been that hot recently. Also, never seen a stove that didn't warn you it was hitting warp speed with audible clues as well. I love that tight sounding "tink, tink, tink".


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## brickie (Mar 6, 2017)

Anything change? Follow up?


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## mincus (Mar 12, 2017)

Well, _I think_, good news.  They have contacted the manufacturer again.  They have agreed to "stand behind the stove and replace if necessary" as long as the owner of the installer company comes out one more time.  I guess he's just needing to confirm that the smell is as bad as I and the one installer has said it is?  I'm not sure.  But, they have asked that it be 50 or below outside when they come.  To make sure it's not a draft issue???  Not sure about that either.


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## Tar12 (Mar 12, 2017)

mincus said:


> Well, _I think_, good news.  They have contacted the manufacturer again.  They have agreed to "stand behind the stove and replace if necessary" as long as the owner of the installer company comes out one more time.  I guess he's just needing to confirm that the smell is as bad as I and the one installer has said it is?  I'm not sure.  But, they have asked that it be 50 or below outside when they come.  To make sure it's not a draft issue???  Not sure about that either.


What they are needing to do and confirm is that your not a bumbling idiot. I am sure they have heard it all over the years and have to cover all bases.My take on this is that the stove needs replaced period.Bad paint job? Possible....but you have burned this unit long enough that should be a non issue by now...IMO Hope they take care of you on this...


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## webby3650 (Mar 12, 2017)

Will you take a chance on another quad? You could ask for a credit with your dealer and choose another brand.


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## Tar12 (Mar 12, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Will you take a chance on another quad? You could ask for a credit with your dealer and choose another brand.


Thats exactly what I would want to do..


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## mincus (Mar 12, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Will you take a chance on another quad? You could ask for a credit with your dealer and choose another brand.



That was the plan.  In looking into this issue quite a bit I haven't come across anyone else with this issue, and I certainly don't see some overwhelming aversion to quads on the forums.  Crazy thing is I didn't pay all that much for the stove itself.  They had it discounted to half retail price since it was a floor model.  So, if I get a credit, I'd end up getting about $1000 towards a new stove.  A replacement quad would probably cost $2000 or so new.  So, I'm hoping to do a one for one swap.  Other than the smell, I really like the stove (although it seems a bit loud to me as it expands/contracts, but other than that I haven't had any issues with it.  

Unless someone has a strong reason I should not go for another quad?  I know they're not top of the line, but they seem pretty good.  They're at least a third of the models on the showroom floor that I bought from.


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## webby3650 (Mar 12, 2017)

mincus said:


> That was the plan.  In looking into this issue quite a bit I haven't come across anyone else with this issue, and I certainly don't see some overwhelming aversion to quads on the forums.  Crazy thing is I didn't pay all that much for the stove itself.  They had it discounted to half retail price since it was a floor model.  So, if I get a credit, I'd end up getting about $1000 towards a new stove.  A replacement quad would probably cost $2000 or so new.  So, I'm hoping to do a one for one swap.  Other than the smell, I really like the stove (although it seems a bit loud to me as it expands/contracts, but other than that I haven't had any issues with it.
> 
> Unless someone has a strong reason I should not go for another quad?  I know they're not top of the line, but they seem pretty good.  They're at least a third of the models on the showroom floor that I bought from.


In this instance I would get another quad then.


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## mincus (Mar 14, 2017)

Company owner came out.  He started the fire and waited a while.  Towards the beginning of the smell (it starts gradually as the fire gets hotter), he didn't seemed convinced that there was an issue.  He told me that was a normal smell and just indicated a fire was burning.  He said it was normal to walk into a house and smell that smell, and that's what told you the fire was going.  He said his store sometimes smells like that when the fire is burning.  I felt like he was trying to set me up to think the smell was totally normal and there wasn't an issue (despite the fact that one of his employees completely agreed it wasn't right).

However, as time went on the smell continued to increase.  Even being in there for a couple hours, with the smell gradually increasing, we could still clearly smell it (which is what it's been doing every time we burn it).  In other words, you never get "used" to the smell.  Often when things smell, you get used to the smell, but in this case, that just doesn't happen.  Until I pushed the issue, he didn't really seem super convinced that it should be replaced.  I was not happy.  But, I continued to tell him this smell wasn't normal and when he realized I wasn't just going to give in, he kind of changed his tune.  He described it as a new stove smell, something similar to curing paint, but not quite the same.  He gave me several examples of when he's encountered this smell (stove conventions, when they get a new stove in the shop, etc).  But every example he gave was in situations with a new stove.  When I raised that point, he finally started to agree that it shouldn't be still doing this at this point.  Also around this time we noticed that it smelled more away from the stove than right next to it.  The entire rest of the house smelled worse than the room with the stove.  Not quite sure why, but I thought that was interesting.

Anyways, he burned it really hot for the last couple hours (around 800-900 on the stove top) and asked me to burn it one more time in the next couple of days.  If the smell is still there, it sounds like they'll replace it.  He also agreed to burn the new stove at his shop all day in order to cure it before putting it in my house.  

So, all in all, not an easy fight, but it seems like we're making progress!


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 14, 2017)

And the saga continues.....  you are a patient man.


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## begreen (Mar 14, 2017)

Good to hear that the owner came out and witnessed the problem. It might just be a stove with a bad paint job. Keep us posted.


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## mincus (Mar 14, 2017)

Just so I make sure I have my info correct: should a properly functioning stove have ANY smell?

The owner indicated multiple times that an everpresent smell is completely normal.  He said it's normal to walk into a house and know there's a stove burning just by the smell alone.  This didn't seem right to me.  One of his other guys said when the stove gets hot, you can sometimes get a "hot stove" smell.

Soooo, I guess my big question is, is there any truth to that at all?  I know you might occasionally get a puff of smoke as you open the door, but other than that, should there be any smell whatsoever???


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## begreen (Mar 14, 2017)

No, a proper functioning stove running under normal condition should not have any smell. There may be a little smoke smell in a stove shop if they are opening stove doors too quickly when burning or have fired up a new stove, but with several different stoves installed in this old house I can not smell stove when I walk in from outdoors.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Mar 15, 2017)

mincus said:


> Soooo, I guess my big question is, is there any truth to that at all?  I know you might occasionally get a puff of smoke as you open the door, but other than that, should there be any smell whatsoever???



New stoves have a paint cure smell for the first few burns. If the 8th burn is hotter than the seven burns before it, you might smell a little additional paint curing. Other than that, you might smell a slight odor from whatever room dust found its way to hot surfaces. This will occur indefinitely. I imagine it's possible for a defective paint job to continue to smell long past the normal curing process but I've never experienced that.


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## mincus (Mar 16, 2017)

I burned it one more time tonight, as they requested, and the smell persists.  So, I _think_ we're finally headed to new stove territory!


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## mincus (Apr 9, 2017)

It's official!  Quadrafire has agreed to change out the stove.  They don't make the 3100 step top anymore, so we go in tomorrow to pick out something comparable.


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## Corey (Apr 9, 2017)

mincus said:


> Company owner came out.  He started the fire and waited a while.  ...
> 
> When I raised that point, he finally started to agree that it shouldn't be still doing this at this point.  Also around this time we noticed that it smelled more away from the stove than right next to it.  The entire rest of the house smelled worse than the room with the stove.  Not quite sure why, but I thought that was interesting.
> 
> ...




Been following and periodically replying to this thread over the months.  Nice to see you're making progress and I really hope the new stove fixes the problem for you!   IMHO, normal operation a stove should not really smell at all.  You might get a whiff of wood smoke from opening the door, the 'first time of the year' smell, or a bit of a hot smell if you really crank the temp up - but normal operation, it should not smell any more than a gas furnace, which should also have no smell.  I've had a few guests come into the front rooms of my house and spend time, then they walk into the family room and are surprised to see a fire going.  Maybe they just aren't attentive, but if the 'ol box made much smell, I'd think they would know it.

Your point I have clipped above is interesting - first time I recall reading/you mentioning that the smell is more away from the stove and more in other rooms.  I went back and skimmed the whole thread - noticed your original pics.  Is there any possibility smoke may be entering the attic space, then get drawn back into the living space, making a smoke smell stronger in other rooms of the house?


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## begreen (Apr 9, 2017)

Corey said:


> Is there any possibility smoke may be entering the attic space, then get drawn back into the living space, making a smoke smell stronger in other rooms of the house?


Interesting observation. Depending on the prevailing wind direction it might be contributing. Closing off that vent as a test is one way to tell.


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## mincus (Apr 10, 2017)

Corey said:


> Been following and periodically replying to this thread over the months.  Nice to see you're making progress and I really hope the new stove fixes the problem for you!   IMHO, normal operation a stove should not really smell at all.  You might get a whiff of wood smoke from opening the door, the 'first time of the year' smell, or a bit of a hot smell if you really crank the temp up - but normal operation, it should not smell any more than a gas furnace, which should also have no smell.  I've had a few guests come into the front rooms of my house and spend time, then they walk into the family room and are surprised to see a fire going.  Maybe they just aren't attentive, but if the 'ol box made much smell, I'd think they would know it.
> 
> Your point I have clipped above is interesting - first time I recall reading/you mentioning that the smell is more away from the stove and more in other rooms.  I went back and skimmed the whole thread - noticed your original pics.  Is there any possibility smoke may be entering the attic space, then get drawn back into the living space, making a smoke smell stronger in other rooms of the house?



Good thought, but no, that isn't the issue.  I like the drawing though   I know it's not the issue since you can smell the smell coming right off of the stove as it is burning.  It smells pretty strongly right above the stove.  It does seem to "settle" in the cooler areas of the house.  The stove dealer said it's the same smell he got when curing a new stove at their shop.  And he noticed that when he walked in the front door (not near the stove), that's where it smelled the strongest.


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## mincus (Apr 10, 2017)

Ok, so I went in to pick out a new stove today.  The store owner had a very different tune with me.  He was apologetic and very much "we'll do anything to make it right."  Up to this point, I was often made to feel as though it's normal and I should just accept it.  He even offered to give me a more expensive stove without charging anything additional, and apparently that will come out of his pocket.  It made me feel like something was up and I wasn't getting the whole story.  As though quadrafire knew there was an issue and they really didn't want me to make a bigger deal out of it, so they'll do anything to make me happy?  I don't know, it was weird.

Anyways, it seems I have a few different choices.  They don't make the 3100 step top anymore, so following are my choices and I'd like some input if anyone has words of wisdom:
1. Quadrafire Explorer II.  A slightly bigger stove (mostly wider).  I'm not 100% sure this will fit as well into the area (still need to do some measuring).  But, out of the options, I think this one is our favorite.  We like the traditional look in a stove.  One of the reasons I liked the 3100 was that the "emissions" were only 1.1g/hr.  This one is 2.2g/hr.  Does this really mean anything?  Is that a reasonable enough difference to make a decision about it?  I'm leaning towards it's not as important as I once thought, but not sure.  I would assume there is a decent amount of variability based on many different factors, in other words just because this one is twice as much, doesn't necessarily mean much...thoughts?

2. Quadrafire Discovery II.  Basically the same stove as the 3100, but it has a wood storage area underneath.  We don't like the look of this one as much, but it's not quite a "girthy" as the explorer II.  Plus, I had built our current pad up about 7 inches, and I feel like this one might look a bit weird since the actual stove is up even higher.

3. 3100 model (not step top).  Basically the same as our old one, but with a pedastal (we don't like as much) and no step top.

4. Harman TL2.6.  This one is likely a no go because the clearances are far too large.

So, we can figure out the logistics of which we like the best in terms of looks.  But, does anyone have any experience with any of these they would like to impart?

Thanks all!


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## begreen (Apr 10, 2017)

Sorry you can no longer get the steptop 3100. I like that version. The key differences between the 3100 and the Explorer will be the firebox configuration and the cast iron jacketing on the Explorer. The 3100 has a more square firebox which lends itself better to N/S or E/W loading. The Explorer II firebox is wider but also a bit shallower. The cast iron jacket on the Explorer will soften the heat output from the sides and top a bit better. The cast iron jacket will also act as a heat sink to help reduce room temp swing. 

Are Quad and Harman the only stoves this dealer sells?


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## mincus (Apr 13, 2017)

begreen said:


> Sorry you can no longer get the steptop 3100. I like that version. The key differences between the 3100 and the Explorer will be the firebox configuration and the cast iron jacketing on the Explorer. The 3100 has a more square firebox which lends itself better to N/S or E/W loading. The Explorer II firebox is wider but also a bit shallower. The cast iron jacket on the Explorer will soften the heat output from the sides and top a bit better. The cast iron jacket will also act as a heat sink to help reduce room temp swing.
> 
> Are Quad and Harman the only stoves this dealer sells?



I think we're leaning towards the explorer II, as long as it will fit well in our space.  Unfortunately I had built out setup for the 3100 model thinking it would be 20-30 years before we would ever consider replacing.  I did build with some extra space because the distance to combustibles numbers just seemed too low to me (and that I'm neurotic like that   The explorer is slightly wider, but the distances are also a little bit less.  I guess I just don't like it being closer to the wall than it has to be.

The dealer does sell other stoves, but these three were the "choices" I had.  The dealer did say that he was getting a credit from quad, so I guess there's no reason I couldn't do another stove if I wanted.  I hadn't really looked at the other options too closely, but from what I quickly saw, I think all the others are either inserts or smaller stoves than what we're looking for.


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## jetsam (Apr 13, 2017)

begreen said:


> Good to hear that the owner came out and witnessed the problem. It might just be a stove with a bad paint job. Keep us posted.



He said it was a display.

Any chance it was a non-burning display and the stove shop cleaned, painted, or polished it with something that doesn't usually go on stoves?

I like this theory except that I can't think of what they could have put on that didn't burn off after a winter of stove temperatures. Maybe a silicon-based polish of some kind? Or maybe the smell comes from a part of the stove that never gets very hot, so it doesn't ever cook off?

Hm. Got nothin'.


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## mincus (Apr 15, 2017)

jetsam said:


> He said it was a display.
> 
> Any chance it was a non-burning display and the stove shop cleaned, painted, or polished it with something that doesn't usually go on stoves?
> 
> ...



Yeah, me neither.  I've been trying to figure it out all winter!


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## jetsam (Apr 15, 2017)

begreen said:


> Interesting observation. Depending on the prevailing wind direction it might be contributing. Closing off that vent as a test is one way to tell.



Ohh! You know what smells funny and unpleasant and not at all like woodsmoke?

Cat fumes!

How about this: flue gasses are being recirculated at concentrations that you can barely smell, but not enough to set off CO detectors?

I suggest you go up on the roof and sniff the flue pipe when the cat is active, and see if it might be the same odor you have in the house. (I also suggest you check your CO alarms.)


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## begreen (Apr 15, 2017)

The Quad 3100 is a non-cat stove.


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## jetsam (Apr 15, 2017)

Well, back to "got nothin'".


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## tpenny67 (Apr 18, 2017)

jetsam said:


> He said it was a display.
> 
> Any chance it was a non-burning display and the stove shop cleaned, painted, or polished it with something that doesn't usually go on stoves?
> 
> ...



I got a Quadra 4300 about the same time as Mincus got his new stove.  When they installed it they gave the connector and stove top a liberal spray of touch-up paint.  It took quite some time for the smell to go away on mine, so I can believe the theory that the display model got a fresh coat of paint and that contributed to the problem.  Especially if they put a heavy layer on a cooler part of the stove, that wouldn't even start to smell until the stove had burned hot for a long time and would take forever to cure.


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## jetsam (Apr 18, 2017)

tpenny67 said:


> I got a Quadra 4300 about the same time as Mincus got his new stove.  When they installed it they gave the connector and stove top a liberal spray of touch-up paint.  It took quite some time for the smell to go away on mine, so I can believe the theory that the display model got a fresh coat of paint and that contributed to the problem.  Especially if they put a heavy layer on a cooler part of the stove, that wouldn't even start to smell until the stove had burned hot for a long time and would take forever to cure.



And maybe it's not stove paint- maybe somebody touched up a cooler part of the stove with Rustoleum or something.

Hm, going down that road... maybe the flue pipe has something other than stove paint on the outside. The smell coming from higher up might explain why it smells less near the stove?

I guess if the new stove has the same problem we'll know where to look!


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## Gr8ftblr (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm installing the Quad Disco II (sounds like a pop song). We are installing a hearth that is only a few inches tall b/c of the aesthetics you mentioned about it being taller that most stoves. 
More than anything, I hope your new stove brings you no grief or strange smells!


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## mincus (Jun 4, 2017)

Well, finally an update.

There's some good news and a large heap of bad news.

First, the good.  A few days ago, they installed our brand new stove.  Since the 3100 is no longer in production, they gave us the Explorer II.  It is a bit wider, and so accommodate a longer log, which we like.

But, now for the bad news:  the smell IS STILL THERE.  Yeah, I know.  I'm honestly blown away.  I have no idea anymore.  

I have a theory that I'd like to get your ideas on: I am leaning towards the smell being some of the emissions getting back into the house.  I am thinking there may be a draft or pipe issue.  I have several reasons for thinking that:

I mentioned near the beginning of this whole thing that I was having some chest pains.  I didn’t speak much more of it because I couldn’t completely convince myself it was related to this.  However, I am 32 years old and have never had chest pains to that point.  In December, I ended up going to the ER one night because of it.  This was after a straight week of burning the stove.  The chest pains got progressively better as I burned the stove less and less.  I haven’t burned the stove for a couple of months, and they were totally gone.  I burned the new stove on Friday night.  The next morning and this morning I woke up with minor chest pains.
The morning after burning the stove, myself and my two children woke up with pretty severe allergy like symptoms.  My daughter and I have allergies, but this was worse than we’ve had all spring.  My wife and I sometimes get minor headaches, but only when burning the stove.
When the installers took apart the stove pipe in order to put the new stove on, I noticed a couple of things.  I took this picture in the horizontal section just before a turn that goes into the wall.  I noticed that the two pieces don’t line up at all (in the picture, on the left side of the pipe).  This is a double wall pipe, so it’s the inner wall that doesn’t line up.  I also noticed (but didn’t get a picture) that the outer wall of the pipe had ash looking stuff in it.  Similar to (although not quite as much as) what is in the inner wall of the pipe.  I’m assuming I shouldn’t see anything in the outer wall??



4. The smell on the new stove is the same as the old stove, a sweet sort of smell (sorry, no idea how else to describe it).  It seems to originate from right around the pipe.  Now, on this stove, the hottest part is the part right around where the flu exits the stove, so that could be the reason.  Or it could be related to the pipe.  I smelled it strongest when I put my nose right around the bottom of the pipe there.



Here’s my crazy theory: is it at all possible that some of the emissions are getting back into the house.  Is it possible that it’s a small amount so it doesn’t set off our CO detectors?  We have three of them in the house.  Is it possible that most of the emissions are going up and out like they’re supposed to, but some is actually flowing backwards on the outer shell of the double walled pipe?  I know this sounds crazy, but I just don’t see another option.

If that’s not possible, I have no idea what’s going on.  Clearly I'm not crazy or making it up since the president of the company came to my house, agreed the smell wasn't normal, and went through the hassle of getting the stove replaced.  I honestly don’t know what to do at this point.  But frankly, I’m done.  I’m almost thinking it doesn’t matter what the reason is.  It’s not what I was sold on (I asked two different associates before buying the stove if there’s ever any smell from them.  Both of them told me no, except for the occasional smell of wood smoke if you open the door too fast.  Certainly neither of them said anything that our entire house would smell like this everytime, the entire time we burn).  The benefit of a wood stove isn’t anything compared to the horrible gut feeling I have that I’m poisoning myself and my family.  I just can’t get over that idea in my head.  The new stove smelling the same only solidifies what I’ve believed in the back of my mind for a while.

To say I'm upset, angry, etc is probably understating it.  I have wanted a stove for years, and it's just not working out.  I have put countless hours and well over a thousand dollars into just getting the area prepped for the stove (not to mention the thousands I’ve paid for the stove, pipe, install, etc).  I took out two old fireplaces, a 23 foot tall masonry chimney, built a new wall, all the interior work, etc etc.  Heck, we bought a specific couch for the room so it wasn’t too close to the stove.  The whole thing was no short and easy feat and I'm left with this.  

I’m at a loss.  Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks all for the help.


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## begreen (Jun 4, 2017)

It could be the horizontal run is too long or not pitched correctly. The horizontal section should be pitched at least 1/4" per ft, upward toward the chimney. More is better. I'd consider getting rid of the 90º elbow and replacing it with two 45º elbows, with a short transition between them. This will mean shortening the vertical pipe coming off of the stove by 6-12" and the horiz. section correspondingly. The less horizontal pipe the better.


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## jetsam (Jun 4, 2017)

Here's  an idea- warm up the flue with a small load, then burn like 20 sticks of incense at once in the stove. See if you can smell it in the house. Get a ladder and sniff the flue pipe all along its length.

If you don't find your smell after that, it may not be coming from the stove or flue pipe. 

Maybe your plumbing air intake is picking up some stove exhaust, or it's getting recirculated into your attic and through the walls.  (Is there a white PVC pipe penetrating the roof by the flue?)


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## Sully1515 (Jun 12, 2017)

Mincus,
My heart goes out to you with the effort you put into having your wood stove.  You worked very hard to get things going.  I'm hoping that the next round, everything will be taken care of.  Please keep us updated on your progress.


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## Catfish Hunter (Oct 15, 2017)

Any updates? This sounds like quite the battle. Has most of your double wall pipe lost its new looking sheen? I'd be especially interested in the adjustable lengths. 


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## Heftiger (Oct 15, 2017)

I’d also be interested in an update. 

Reading through the entire thread it seems like maybe a draft issue. It’s possible the poor draft was causing smoke to leak out some areas in the stove. A new stove, maybe “tighter”?, and you’re smelling the smoke leak from somewhere else. 

With good draft, even if there were some “leaky spots” you shouldn’t have any spillage. There was a time where my inside pipe didn’t get set right on the stove after a cleaning. I didn’t notice for a couple weeks until I got a roaring fire and could see light coming through. But I never got a smell. 


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## jetsam (Oct 15, 2017)

Back on stove #1, I was guessing either a flue leak in a hidden spot or that the house was pulling in outside air near the flue exit, maybe even through a large hole like a gable vent, or maybe even something wacky like a disconnected plumbing air intake.   (Gable vent troubleshooting: Is your smell stronger in the attic?)

If it was me, I'd first run a camera all the way through the flue, and then add a 5' section of 6" hvac duct to the top of the flue and burn it with the taller stack on a cool day.

I am betting you'd either see the problem or it would be suddenly gone, unless 1) The top of the flue was below the ridgeline, or 2) The house is in a valley, or 3) it was being burned on a warm day.


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## Sodbuster (Oct 15, 2017)

Do you know of anyone with a "sniffer" it should be able to detect any leaks. You've gotten some good advice, please let us know what you find. It seems to me if it were the chimney exhaust was coming back into the house, it should smell like wood smoke.


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## mincus (Oct 23, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm really sorry about the lack of updates.  I've been meaning to write one for a couple months and never got around to it.  I thoroughly appreciate all of your advice and time.

Back in July, they came back out to take a look.  They added an outside air kit, a two foot section of vertical pipe outside, and changed the inside pipe to what you see here:



After they replaced the stove, and it was still making the smell, I had a strong suspicion it was a draft issue.  The owner of the store told me these three things was all he could think to do and if it doesn't work, he'll take the entire thing out and give me my money back.  I REALLY don't want to go that route since I've wanted a wood stove for many many years and I have put tons of money (besides the cost of the stove) and time into the project to just put the stove in (took out two fireplaces, a 23 foot chimney, built a new wall, pedestal, etc).

Of course I couldn't fire it up in the middle of summer.  Tonight was a reasonably cool night so I started a fire.  The smell came back stronger and faster than it did before.  My initial thought was that it was burning off dust from the summer, but as the fire continues to go and my house (literally) reaks of the smell throughout both stories, I just don't think that's it.  My kids and wife are currently huddled in the master bedroom with the door closed and I have all the other windows open with a fan to pull the smell out.  It's not making much of a difference.  I got a headache fairly soon after starting the fire and my son can't stop coughing.  I honestly feel like I'm poisoning my family just to keep this stove.  I know that might seem like a bit of an exagerration, but when my entire house smells as bad and strong as it does within less than an hour of starting up the stove, I just don't know what else to think.

I went outside to where the outside air kit brings in air.  There is almost zero air being pulled in there.  I could maaaaybe feel a tiny bit.  I put a tissue up to the hole and the draft wasn't even strong enough to hold up the tissue.  I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

I'm incredibly frustrated and quickly realizing I won't have a wood stove much longer.  And I'll be left with two holes in the wall, an oddly placed pedestal, and lots of wasted money.

I am interested in your take on the following video.  I shined a flashlight along the surface of the stove and saw what appears to be smoke coming off of the top.  I have no idea if this relates to the smell or not since previously it always seemed like the smell was coming from where the pipe meets the back of the stove.  Is this normal for the first burn of the year?  This was after the fire was already roaring for a bit under a couple hours.



Anyone have any thoughts?  Again, sorry about the delay.


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## Marshy (Oct 23, 2017)

Looks like when fresh paint cures on the stove. 

My advice before you throw in the towel is tell the wife to take the kids shopping and stoke that stove full of wood and burn it on high for two or three loads. Just full tilt burning. Open the house up and get fans going. The stove and chimney pipe need to cure. It stinks and smokes when it curing.


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## mincus (Oct 23, 2017)

Yeah, that's my plan.  The problem is the stove was cured last spring/summer.  They burned it a ton at really high temps at the shop before they installed.  So, at this point, the only thing coming off the top should maybe be a bit of dust.  The other thing is that the smell is the same as it was last year when they initially installed it.  So, I do think the burning off dust may have contributed to the initial smell tonight (it smelled far sooner in the burn that in normally did), but now the ongoing smell is still there and the same as in previous years.


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## Marshy (Oct 23, 2017)

Maybe they told you they cured the paint at the shop but who knows if they really did or not. Also, maybe this fire was a tad hotter..?  I'm not familiar with your type of stove to say there's possibly a leak but I can't see any harm in having a really hot couple of fires to see if it burns off some residue or cures some more paint. 

I've never heard any dealer pre curing a stove for someone... New to me.


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## mincus (Oct 23, 2017)

Marshy said:


> Maybe they told you they cured the paint at the shop but who knows if they really did or not. Also, maybe this fire was a tad hotter..?  I'm not familiar with your type of stove to say there's possibly a leak but I can't see any harm in having a really hot couple of fires to see if it burns off some residue or cures some more paint.
> 
> I've never heard any dealer pre curing a stove for someone... New to me.



I'm positive they pre-cured it.  He said they normally never do that, but did on mine since this was the second stove they were putting in.  He has every bit as much incentive to get this stove working for me as I do.  He said he burned it really really hot over the course of several days.

On another note, the fire has been going for several hours now, and now I can clearly smell the "old" smell (from last year) coming off the top of the stove.  I know this smell, and am nearly 100% sure it's not curing paint or burning off dust.  I will likely try it again before contacting them, but I just don't see anything changing.  So frustrating...


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## Heftiger (Oct 23, 2017)

I agree that that’s what I saw when I cured my stove. Took a few good fires before it went away. 


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## mincus (Oct 23, 2017)

Heftiger said:


> I agree that that’s what I saw when I cured my stove. Took a few good fires before it went away.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ok, thanks for the info.  I agree that's probably what was happening, but unfortunately I don't think it's related to the ongoing issue.


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## beatlefan (Oct 23, 2017)

The top of your stove is smoking.  At least part of the smell has to be coming from that.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 24, 2017)

That smoke shouldn't be there. Its as simple as that. Perhaps a better statement would be, that smoke IS going to cause a stink. I just put a new Englander 30NC in my place. I did the initial burn in out in the yard (the stove was a 3 year old floor display model) and there was literally more visible smoke coming off the top of the stove than there was out of the stove pipe. I ran it pretty hot for about 6 hours iirc. I then installed it in the house. The first fire, I got that wonderful hot metal smell of it curing. The second fire was a little less. By the 4th or 5th fire, it was gone completely. I can't tell you why heating and cooling multiple times was required, but that's the way it was. One long burn didn't do it. The second time I ran it, it ran all weekend. Even after that, I still got the smell...less, but still there...on the third burn. Now, there's no smell at all.

Logic would dictate that the heat from an initial fire would burn it all off, and that would be the end of of. If not that, then a really long burn of a few days. That's just not the case. It needed to go through several heating and cooling cycles before the stink was gone completely. Something is causing that smoke, and I strongly suspect that it's still the paint cooking off. If I were you, I'd let it cool completely, and burn it again a few more times. Sorry about the grief you and the family are going through with this whole thing. Send them out on a day trip, and run it hard, and then air the house out...and then do it a few more times. Like I said before...now, there is zero smell coming off my 30NC


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## Marshy (Oct 24, 2017)

The double wall pipe will smoke and cure just like the stove paint when it gets hot enough too. I cured my BK King in about two fires just running it full open. Then one day I left the bypass open a little too long and the double wall got smoking too. Basically what I realized was when I left the bypass open accidentally there were still parts of the stove that didn't get hot enough to cure until I made the bonehead mistake of leaving the bypass open. It's cured by temperature, the hotter you get it the more paint cures. Let'er rip.


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## mincus (Oct 24, 2017)

I don't think it's still just burning off....  They burned several cycles at the shop, really hot, and for long periods of time, throughout an entire week.  As soon as they put it in, the smell was back.  If there was going to be any smell left of curing, it should not be anywhere near this strong.  The first stove I had, I burned for many hundreds of hours (easily 400+).  The smell never went away and never got any better.  This one is shaping up to do the same thing.  The smell last night (and still there somewhat tonight) is the same as the smell from July and the same from the smell from the last stove (sort of a "sweet" smell for lack of a better way to describe it).  The only thing I could possibly think is that it's a draft issue.  

The only two things I could possibly imagine not being ideal is:
1. There is a horizontal section of about three feet where the pipe goes out of the wall.  It then goes straight up from there.
2. The top of the stove pipe is well above the roof line, BUT it's not above the second story (which is right about 10 feet away).  I was told before install that this wouldn't be an issue (I asked specifically about this since I had done a lot of research, specifically about the 10/2 rule).  See pics:




Is it normal for an outside air kit to suck almost no air into it?  Like I mentioned last night, I could barely feel any air being pulled in and the draft wasn't even strong enough to hold up a tissue when the stove was burning like mad.


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## blades (Oct 24, 2017)

pretty sure you need that exhaust above 2nd story, combined with the trees in a relative close proximity which mess with air currents and is that an attic vent i see right at the peak of the second story- that is not helping. 10/2 is only a rule of thumb, not set in stone. i am guessing that the white plastic pipe jutting up is a plumbing vent and not the air intake.  Air intake (oak) needs to be such that it is lower than the stove firebox bottom  preferably on the least windy side of the home.  I always stick a horizontal section from pieces on the end that looks like an "S"  or at minimum like a sink trap, pretty much negates any wind from creating a low pressure point that way and possibly reversing the air flow. Off gassing of paint and various other impurities in metal can take quite a few fires- generally longer on cast iron stoves than plate steel units, heck anytime you hit a new high you might experience a twinge of that scent again even several season down the road.  Diagnostics - as was mentioned, a cam down the flue( when not active of course) might tell a tale as well.  Dealler might have fired that stove, but the amount of off gassing in short vid is more than I have ever experienced but I have only had plate steel stoves. Cast Iron is somewhat porous in comparison to rolled plate steel surface wise so there would be a thicker deposit of paint on it.


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## kennyp2339 (Oct 24, 2017)

Stick you head in the attic, see if it smells up there while burning, that vent could be allowing smoke to come in.


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## Sodbuster (Oct 24, 2017)

kennyp2339 said:


> Stick you head in the attic, see if it smells up there while burning, that vent could be allowing smoke to come in.



+1 on this advice, that gable vent looks like a perfect smoke intake. It could be mixing with something in the attic causing the sweet smell. Odd thought, I've never confused wood smoke with anything else. Does your house have negative pressure? Just wondering if the smoke is getting drawn down the vent stack and escaping somewhere. Any chance you have a dry trap someplace? Kind of grasping at straws here, but it's all I can think of.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 24, 2017)

The answer to your question about the fresh air intake is, it depends. The stove might be pulling in air from the room through it's joints/seams that aren't welded. I'm not familiar with your stove, so I just can't say. If there's a large positive pressure in your house, from say, a furnace fan running all the time that's pulling a lot of air in through an outside vent....you see where Im going with this. The stove might be getting all the air it needs without pulling much in through the fresh air intake. When my stove gets ripping along and full throttle, I can hear the air being pulled through the fresh air pipe I installed.

I'm still stuck on that smoke that you've got coming off the top. No matter what your air intake is doing, if the top of the stove is smoking, it's going to stink and all the fresh air piping, stove piping, good intentions and anything else you do, isn't going to help. You've got to find out what is causing / where that smoke is coming from. You figure that out, and I'm willing to bet most of your problems go away. You can't have smoke coming off the stove, and not have it smell. It's as simple as that. If it's coming right off the top of the stove, and there's no other source, then it's still curing it's paint. Run it, cool it, repeat. It can't cook off the paint forever. Here's a video of mine curing the paint out in the yard before I brought it inside. Looks kind of the same, right ?  The only difference I can see is that I didn't need a flashlight to see it because I was outside in the sunlight. The next couple of burns inside, I couldn't see it, but I sure could smell it.


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## mitchell721 (Oct 24, 2017)

The smoke coming off the stove looks like mine did when it was curing. Took about 4 or 5 fires. And you have to increase in temp each time. Each fire when you hit a new high the smell comes back. Obviously you can't be for sure if they did that or not so I would say try it who knows. Out of curiosity what is your hearth/pedestal made out of? Just wondering if maybe a mastic or something was used that's throwing the smell out as it heats up


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## begreen (Oct 24, 2017)

There's no doubt that for some reason with this installation there is smoke coming off of the stove. It's clearly evident in the posted video. The likely source is the stove paint, even with the store burning. To eliminate this as a variable, burn with a robust fire and full firebox of wood in it. (But don't get the stove glowing red). Do this with windows and doors open or at least a fan exhausting smoke from the room. Do this with the stove blower off. If after 2 fires at 600F stove top, the smoke persists, there is another issue.

Draft can be check with a magnehelic or manometer if your dealer has one. You might also ask if he has a product called the draw collar. This is a draft booster that gets inserted inline on the smoke pipe. I'm not a fan of them, but if it makes an immediate difference then you at least will be making progress toward pinning down the source of this frustrating problem.


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## Marshy (Oct 25, 2017)

mincus said:


> I don't think it's still just burning off....  They burned several cycles at the shop, really hot, and for long periods of time, throughout an entire week.  As soon as they put it in, the smell was back.  If there was going to be any smell left of curing, it should not be anywhere near this strong.  The first stove I had, I burned for many hundreds of hours (easily 400+).  The smell never went away and never got any better.  This one is shaping up to do the same thing.  The smell last night (and still there somewhat tonight) is the same as the smell from July and the same from the smell from the last stove (sort of a "sweet" smell for lack of a better way to describe it).  The only thing I could possibly think is that it's a draft issue.
> 
> The only two things I could possibly imagine not being ideal is:
> 1. There is a horizontal section of about three feet where the pipe goes out of the wall.  It then goes straight up from there.
> ...


This weekend when you send the wife and kids shopping and do a hot burn, go outside and see where the smoke is going. You have an outside air kit so your house shouldn't be under negative pressure and draw that smoke into the house even if it is waiting into the atric. I doubt that is the cause but it certainly looks like the prevailing wind could push smoke into your attic. Regardless, with viable smoke rolling off the stove surface it's almost certain where the smell is originating from. You could humor yourself by purchasing a non-contact pyrometer at harbor freight or Lowes and measuring stove top temps during your hot burn and let us know what temps you are seeing. You should easilly be able to reach mid 600F on the top, if not cranking up.


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## blades (Oct 25, 2017)

Mastic + heat = good call,  some of that stuff has a scent for quite awhile until it fully cures-


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## begreen (Oct 25, 2017)

What I am not certain about with this stove is whether the cast iron top contact the steel stove body or if there is a slight gap. If there is a gap it may be harder to get the cast top up to 600F. Put a thermometer on it to see.


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## mincus (Oct 25, 2017)

Thanks all for the thoughts.  To answer some of the questions:

- The smell isn't coming in through the vent.  I can actually smell the "sweet" smell coming off of the top of the stove.  This was after it stopped smoking during the last fire and the same smell I smelled coming off of the old stove.  That "sweet" smell is what then permeates the house.  So, I'm 100% sure it's coming from the stove or pipe itself and not leaking in from outside.  I firmly believe it's a draft issue.

- It's not a wood smoke smell, at least from a conventional bonfire.  The smell inside is pretty similar to the smell coming from the top of the exhaust pipe outside.  I wouldn't identify it as quite the same, but pretty similar.  The way I like to describe it to people is like a normal smoke smell, but without the "smoke" part.  No idea if that makes sense to anyone else, but the bottom line is what is coming out of the exhaust doesn't smell at all like a typical bonfire smoke to me.  I have heard that this is because these stoves burn more completely so much of the "smoky" part of the smell is gone.  This smell is very similar to what our house ends up smelling like.

- I don't think it's a pressure issue.  We get the exact same smell with or without all the windows open.

- The base is a porcelain tile on top of three layers of a high temperature fiber board (I forget the name, but it was expensive!).  I used a conventional mortar, not mastic.

- The first stove I had up to 700-800 degrees quite often, as measured with an IR thermometer on the top.  The dealer burned this stove up to that same temp several times as I recall, if not a bit hotter.  I don't know how hot it got a few days ago.


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## mitchell721 (Oct 25, 2017)

Seems like by the time the stove was up to 400-500 a draft issue would go away especially when the outside temps were lower. I can't help but think something is getting hot that shouldn't. Can't tell what type of siding you have. Maybe there's fan fold under it getting hot? Just trying to throw whatever I can think of at you.


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## gutlo (Oct 25, 2017)

How about stripping the finish off with paint remover?  You can start with the top.  Do the flashlight-in-the-dark test and if it passes but still smokes, you can strip the rest.  There is an odorless water soluble paint remover that won't stink up the house.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 25, 2017)

gutlo said:


> How about stripping the finish off with paint remover?  You can start with the top.  Do the flashlight-in-the-dark test and if it passes but still smokes, you can strip the rest.  There is an odorless water soluble paint remover that won't stink up the house.



I dont think hes willing to void the warranty just yet. 

OP. Show the wood stove store that video you posted and see what they have to say.


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## blacksmithden (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey....what about this. You borrow a few lengths of stove pipe from the store to get a draft going. Pull the stove out into the yard, and burn the living hell out of it over the weekend. Hot as hell....cool down...heat it up again.....No stink in the house....paint gets well cured.....then you'll know.


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## Heftiger (Oct 25, 2017)

blacksmithden said:


> Hey....what about this. You borrow a few lengths of stove pipe from the store to get a draft going. Pull the stove out into the yard, and burn the living hell out of it over the weekend. Hot as hell....cool down...heat it up again.....No stink in the house....paint gets well cured.....then you'll know.



Except he said the dealer already did this...
Unless they didn’t; but like the OP said, the dealer has a vested interest in him not having an issue. 


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## blacksmithden (Oct 26, 2017)

Heftiger said:


> Except he said the dealer already did this...
> Unless they didn’t; but like the OP said, the dealer has a vested interest in him not having an issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah...I know....but I still think that smoke is cooking paint...and the thing can't smoke forever. Eventually, whatever is cooking off in the finish has to get used up...I mean, unless its magic finish.  I still think he should run it hard and cool it...as many cycles as it takes to burn off whatever is causing that smoke,  and then bring it back inside. Now...I know it's easy for me to say that because I have an appliance moving dolly and lots of friends to help out getting it out of the basement. Not just anyone is going to have the luxury/ability to get a woodstove in and out of their house with relative ease even if its on the ground floor.


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## kennyp2339 (Oct 26, 2017)

Any chance the installed used some sort of sealer on the flue collar connection and perhaps dripped a little on the stove body?
I remember a few posts a couple years ago were a stove owners kid left a little plastic army guy on the stove and it smelled for weeks and it wasn't until the guy took the blower off that he discovered the half melted army guy, maybe its something like this, or perhaps someone used high temp silicone to seal the smoke pipe *not needed and that's the smell.


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## Marshy (Nov 8, 2017)

mincus said:


> Thanks all for the thoughts.  To answer some of the questions:
> 
> - The smell isn't coming in through the vent.  I can actually smell the "sweet" smell coming off of the top of the stove.  This was after it stopped smoking during the last fire and the same smell I smelled coming off of the old stove.  That "sweet" smell is what then permeates the house.  So, I'm 100% sure it's coming from the stove or pipe itself and not leaking in from outside.  I firmly believe it's a draft issue.
> 
> ...


Hoes the stove working for ya? You get that thing rip'in?


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## MAD MARK (Feb 5, 2018)

Anyone talk to this guy?

Any update??


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## Mark8 (Feb 5, 2018)

MAD MARK said:


> Anyone talk to this guy?
> 
> Any update??



 Maybe we should check the obituaries


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## MAD MARK (Feb 6, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> Maybe we should check the obituaries



I've been going back through old posts from last year and it worries me, and also pisses me off that people don't come back and reply something.

Especially the one post that the guy had 4 chimney fires but installed a garden hose so felt he was alright.


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## Marshy (Feb 6, 2018)

Ha! I remember this thread.
I wish the guy would have loaded the stove, went outside and took a video of the smoke from the chimney pipe. It's either blowing into the attic or possibly falling onto the roof and sinking down along side the house and coming in through windows and other areas thst leak air into the house. It would have been worth the effort to have an energy audit done to check the air tighness of the house. Even with an outside air kit if the house is not very tight and is losing a fair amount of heat and air up through the ceiling/attic space the air will be made up through doors/windows/outlets pulling in the smell of the smoke. With all the trees around the house it's possible the smoke outside the home does not dissipated very well. I do believe the last video he showed us was the stove paint curing. I also believe he will be unsatisfied regardless of the stove installed.


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## MAD MARK (Feb 6, 2018)

Well I was interested because I'm getting a bad smell right around 400 sttt everytime I get the stove going. And this is day to day everytime. This was closet thread to what I'm seeing happen to me.


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## Marshy (Feb 6, 2018)

MAD MARK said:


> Well I was interested because I'm getting a bad smell right around 400 sttt everytime I get the stove going. And this is day to day everytime. This was closet thread to what I'm seeing happen to me.


The best advice I could give you is start your own thread and state you issue. This may be close to your issue but every install is different and while the symptoms might be the same, the cause could be entirely different.

Also, right out of the gate take pictures of your stove, the pipe arrangement that connects it to the chimney and take pictures of the chimney outside. If you can load the stove and take pictures of the smokes direction it might add value. Tell us when you experience it and how you operate the stove (burn 24/7 or light 2 or 3 fires a day?). 

The air tightness (or lack there of) can play a significant part in these issues. Like i mentioned, if the house loses a lot of warm air through the ceiling/attic it will cause the house to be under a lower pressure than outside and smoke smell will get pulled into the house around the windows and doors. The air entering the home will be the coldest and tent to stay low to the floor. Air movement will tend to be towards the stove as the air is heated it will rise.

To check for air leaks you can get a smoke pen. You can also check the differential pressure in the house with a draft gauge. An Entergy audit usually checked those sort of things and tell you how drafty your house is and where you should focus on for improved efficiency. Air tightness of the house is as important as the draft in the chimney.


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