# My stove won't stay lit



## briansol (Jan 18, 2009)

Help!

I have a new this season Lennox/country Winslow insert model p140
http://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com/products/overview.asp?pid=464

I burned through my 1st ton no problems.

It started making less heat, so i figured it was time to clean the thing fully.

since i've cleaned the stove, i have not been able to re-start it for more than 20 min.

It fires right up, burns great, then the auger just stops feeding pellets.  It eventually just burns out.
Sometimes, it will throw an error code (out of pellets, snap switch detetcs no flame), but most the time it stays green.

My dealer is worthless and i can't seem to get ahold of anyone at lennox who wants to help me.


I've triple (hell, 20-times over now) re-checked everything, all the seals, its freshly clean inside and out.... and it was working mint before i did all this cleaning.    I feel like it was me, but it could just be coincidence.   I figured if i did something wrong, it wouldn't start up at all.   But it does, and then just dies out.

Anyone have any pointers?


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## imacman (Jan 18, 2009)

Since you've said that you've checked that everything is sealed (door, ash pan, etc), did you check to make sure the vacuum tube isn't clogged from ash that got stirred up during cleaning, and got sucked up when you started the stove?

Just a thought....hate to say this, not 100% sure but I think it has to be something that happened during cleaning.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 18, 2009)

Check page 23 and clean the proof of fire switch, depending on what you cleaned how you cleaned it you might have left the proof of fire switch dirty.

I'm not saying that is the problem but it could be.


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2009)

All switches were removed and cleaned (they were clean anyway...)  I took apart both the blowers and cleaned everything.   I cleaned everything in the manual.  There's really nothing else to clean expect the cap on the roof of the house.   Visual from the ground says it looks ok.  A little smoke can be seen coming out of it like usual.  I can't believe that 1 ton of pellets would clog it anyway (this was installed brand new in spetember).   The exhaust tube wasn't too too bad..   it was mostly at the bottom of the tube anyway, and i shook it until ash stopped coming down.

same with the vacuum tube and exhaust pipe.   i shook it all out and cleaned it all out.  It's nearly as clean as the day it got installed.

I don't have an ash pan on my unit...  just a door to the burn pot and the ash collects around it.  the 'rope' seal is still white and appears to seal good.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 18, 2009)

If you cleaned the proof of fire switch and then cleaned the combustion blower or the exhaust vent you could have fouled the switch.  

But like I said that may not be the cause, your manual indicates that it tends to be the cause of some otherwise unexplained shut downs.

Your symptom seems to indicate that the stove thinks there is no fire, it is at about the correct startup go/no go decision time which varies by stove model etc...

As a test if that switch can be bypassed (consult your manual as to how to bypass it) you could bypass it and try starting the stove.

Also if you accidentally loosened the wires while cleaning that could cause the same effect.  Remember to do the bypass of the switch and reseating of those wires make sure the stove is off and unplugged.


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, I fixed it.

What did i do?   I kicked it.


lol  seriously.  I was getting so frustrated with the thing, so i kicked it on the side.   It's been on all night now... approaching 12 hours


So, i don't know what i did...  maybe something was a HAIR off, and the kick re-positioned it.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 18, 2009)

Or knocked the ash off, etc ...


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## Panhandler (Jan 18, 2009)

briansol said:
			
		

> Well, I fixed it.
> 
> What did i do?   I kicked it.
> 
> ...



Right foot or left? Straight on or soccer style?


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2009)

right side, soccer kick.   haha

thanks for the help though guys.  I have a feeling i'll be back when it acts up again :X


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## briansol (Jan 18, 2009)

well, that was fast.   it's acting up again.   topped off the hopper, and it shut off.

going for start #3


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## Dr_Drum (Jan 18, 2009)

Is your stove actually going out due to lack of pellets while you can see the auger moving, or is the auger stopping as if you hit the off button? If the auger is stopping, some switch is probably telling it to stop.
Mike -


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## Dr_Drum (Jan 18, 2009)

CZARCAR said:
			
		

> briansol said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's is a thermo disk? Where is it? Are we supposed to clean it?
Thanks in advance, Mike -


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## lpgreg (Jan 18, 2009)

Is the ready light flashing on your control board when the stove malfunctions? Is the convection blower working?


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

The auger just stops feeding pellets.   No error lights come on until 5-10 min after that happens and the fire is completely out.   The error is two short red blinks, which means 'proof of fire' or out of pellets.  *Duh*.  There's no fire because it stopped feeding it pellets in the first place.
Blower does kick on when it should.   It just doesn't make sense that it just stops feeding it pellets.   *shrug*.   i'm calling the dealer on monday and ordering up a tech i guess.   Warranty or not, i still have to pay for the house visit.


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## shyann (Jan 19, 2009)

I also had winslow but the insert model that was doing the same thing.  The dealer was blaming my chimney saying we had to much combustible air.  I couldn't keep it running more than 10 minutes.  I insisted on my money back which they did do after getting a third party involved.  I bought a Quadrafire Classic Bay.  Soooo much better.  Good luck!


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## Dr_Drum (Jan 19, 2009)

If no pellets are coming out and you can see or hear the auger still trying to feed, something is blocking the pellets. Did you notice long pellets over an inch. I've read this can cause an issue. Maybe try some different pellets?
Mike -


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2009)

I have a copy of your stoves manual and what the two short blink code means depends upon which of the lights is flashing.  The stove should be providing an unambiguous error code.

If this is the case:

Ready light flashes red short blinks 

then this is the reason:

Proof of Fire Snap Switch Open (which really means the control board doesn't see it as being closed)

The proof of fire switch should close and stay closed as long as the temperature is high enough to indicate a fire is burning in the stove.  

There are several reasons the switch may not be closing or staying closed, the switch itself is malfunctioning, the switch is insulated from the exhaust gases and therefor can not get hot enough to close or stay closed(dirty), or there is actually no fire in the fire pot (due to a faulty igniter or no fuel in the fire pot).   The fire lights so the igniter is fine, pellets had to feed to be ignited so there were pellets, in fact since the stove is not flashing the ignite light and the ready light is not constant it has exited ignition mode.   

This switch gets bypassed by the control board when the stove is in its ignition sequence.   

So what to do? 

Jumper the switch this would isolate the shut down cause to the switch provided the stove then stays running. 

If it is the switch the two possibilities are the switch is not functioning (damaged) or dirty and therefor insulated from seeing its required temperature to function.

I am not one who likes to play the jumper game as you really need to watch the stove whenever it is run that way.

If it turns out that the stove still indicates the same problem then we have the wiring to the control board or the control board.

When the stove thinks this switch is open the auger will get turned off shutting the stove down. 

Since kicking it allowed it to run (for awhile anyway)  you likely have loose electrical connections, loose screws, and dirt (ash in this case) as candidates.


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

shyann said:
			
		

> I also had winslow but the insert model that was doing the same thing.  The dealer was blaming my chimney saying we had to much combustible air.  I couldn't keep it running more than 10 minutes.  I insisted on my money back which they did do after getting a third party involved.  I bought a Quadrafire Classic Bay.  Soooo much better.  Good luck!



Damn, that sucks   i really don't want to have to replace it


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

Dr_Drum said:
			
		

> Is your stove actually going out due to lack of pellets while you can see the auger moving, or is the auger stopping as if you hit the off button? If the auger is stopping, some switch is probably telling it to stop.
> Mike -



No, the auger isn't moving at all.   The control board isn't telling it to feed at all.


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

Dr_Drum said:
			
		

> If no pellets are coming out and you can see or hear the auger still trying to feed, something is blocking the pellets. Did you notice long pellets over an inch. I've read this can cause an issue. Maybe try some different pellets?
> Mike -


i've tried 2 different kinds, both premiums.
American and Green Supreme


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2009)

shyann,

If your dealer said to much combustible air he was off base, now if he said too much combustion air then all you had to do was restrict the air entering the stove.

Which begs the question briansol, have you watched the stove while this was going on and did the stove by any chance blow all of the pellets as well as the ash out of the burn pot?  If this is the case then this may be of help:

The Winslow™ PS40 stove has a draft adjuster located at the left side
of the stove directly in front of the combustion blower. Should the stove
installation require long runs of vent pipe, a situation may be created
where excessive combustion air is flowing through the firebox and
causing the fuel to burn faster than it can be delivered to the Burn-Pot.
Should this happen, the draft can be slowed down by the adjuster. The
stove is shipped with the adjuster in the fully open position. To slow the
draft down, loosen the 5/32” allen head screw (A in Figure    54) and move
the adjuster handle toward the center of the stove. Retighten the screw
when the desired adjustment is reached.


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Which begs the question briansol, have you watched the stove while this was going on and did the stove by any chance blow all of the pellets as well as the ash out of the burn pot?  If this is the case then this may be of help:



It seems fine.   The embers stay in the burn pot....  and just slowly fade out due to nothing else being added to the 'mix' to burn.  Eventually, it just burns out completely.


I burned a full ton on whatever setting the draft adjuster is on now with no problems.   I didn't touch it when i cleaned, so i don't think it's the culprit here.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2009)

Have you tried jumpering that switch (make sure the stove is both off and unplugged when placing the jumper?  

In what order did you clean the stove?

Cleaning the flue after cleaning the combustion blower will cause soot to get into the horizontal pipe between the tee and the exhaust blower and possibly on the area behind that sensor.


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## Dr_Drum (Jan 19, 2009)

Well, if the auger isn't feeding at all something is telling it not to. I'd probably go through all your cleaning steps over again. It was running fine, you cleaned it, now it doesn't run. Maybe you hit a wire and disconnected something, or as others mentioned, the sensor snap disk thing is dirty? Retrace your steps, you'll figure it out.
Mike -


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm going to pick up a replacement snap switch after work tonight.   The guy at the dealer says that's most likely the case, as they go bad a lot.


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## briansol (Jan 20, 2009)

well, that didn't work either 

i jumped every switch one at a time, and same effect.

looks like i gotta order the house call


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## briansol (Jan 25, 2009)

Tech came out n saturday.   Ran a bunch of tests.  Narrowed it down to the control board being faulty.

went today to pick up the part (tech didn't have one on him), put it in, and the exact same thing still happens


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## tberry (Jan 30, 2009)

If you put a new proof of fire switch in and also tried jumping that switch I would say it is not a switch problem.  If you put a new control board in it can't be that.  I would check the wires that go to the proof of fire switch to make sure they weren't damaged or disconnected in cleaning or trying to figure out what is going on.  If those wires look good it could be in the connection from the wiring harness to the control board.


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## briansol (Jan 30, 2009)

I Finally got this resolved.

After the tech came out and everything was still not working, i decided to take the whole thing apart.   5 min into it, i noticed that the wire to the ignitor had melted itself to the chassis, and thus, was grounding out.   During moving/cleaning/etc i must've pulled that wire out of the zip tie.
Electrical taped it up, put it back together, re-zip tied it out of the way, and bingo.  stove works mint.  been off and on 3 times now for cleaning.  starts right up and stays lit.

So, the tech was probably right--  the control board was fried.   This ground out wire probably fried it.  Luckily, my new control board was not damaged and still works fine.


Back to the original problem that it all started when i cleaned it...   yup.  it was my fault.   I must've pulled it out of the fireplace a little too much which caused the wire to fall out of the zip tie and eventually melt and ground out.


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## imacman (Jan 30, 2009)

Glad you finally got it resolved.  Hope you didn't throw the old control board out...I'd re-install it and see if it still works....nice to have a spare.


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## briansol (Jan 30, 2009)

no, they took it in when i 'warantied' for the new one at no cost.


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## South of Boston (Jan 30, 2009)

briansol said:
			
		

> no, they took it in when i 'warantied' for the new one at no cost.



Glad to read all went well this forum is a great tool of advise. DId you have to pay tech for the visit?


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## briansol (Jan 30, 2009)

no, it was free.  The only cost was the 160 gallons of oil i burned while my stove was out of commission   just happened to be the 2-3 coldest weeks of the year too


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## South of Boston (Jan 30, 2009)

briansol said:
			
		

> no, it was free.  The only cost was the 160 gallons of oil i burned while my stove was out of commission   just happened to be the 2-3 coldest weeks of the year too



At least oil is cheaper than last year. THese stoves are a great solution to cut cost of heating. But it does take time to learn about them.


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## briansol (Feb 1, 2009)

SOB!
i shut it  down to clean out the ash and burn pot yesterday, and i'm having the exact same problem again.  Cannot get it to stay on.

maybe it was a lucky stint before  

back to oil, and back to the dealer again...

ugh.

i don't even want this thing anymore.   more trouble than its worth.


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## South of Boston (Feb 1, 2009)

briansol said:
			
		

> SOB!
> i shut it  down to clean out the ash and burn pot yesterday, and i'm having the exact same problem again.  Cannot get it to stay on.
> 
> maybe it was a lucky stint before
> ...



Are pellets being fed? Auto ignite working? Does it get hot enough to turn to auto run?


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## briansol (Feb 1, 2009)

Here's exactly what happens.


off
turn on
push start button
pellets feed/ ignitor glows
fire 
5 min later, it just stops feeding, and eventually burns out due to lack of fuel to burn.


i've tried all settings from 1 to 5, tried manually stuffing the burn pot with a handful of fuel to maybe prolong the burn, same thing.  it just stops feeding.

Eventunally, it will throw 2 short blinks, which equates to 'out of pellets' according to my manual.
Duh.  it ran out because you stopped feeding it!


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## South of Boston (Feb 2, 2009)

briansol said:
			
		

> Here's exactly what happens.
> 
> 
> off
> ...



SO due to lack of heat the auger stops feeding? THere must be a sensor that decides that. IF the auger does work at the start then it shouldn't be the problem. How is the air flow? slider damper setting? What typr of flame are youi getting in 5 minutes?


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## briansol (Feb 2, 2009)

I've jumped all snap switches one at a time, and the same result happens.  It almost can't be a sensor.  The tech did it too when he was out at the house.

Air flow is fine.  It's an insert, and my chimey and the room its in is only one story + the peak of the house...  18 feet probably.   The tech also adjusted/played with my damper and ended up back where it was.  Mind you, i burned well over a ton and a half on the damper setting it was on with no issues.  So, I don't think the damper is at fault.

Flame is good.  It rolls up GREAT, burns like crazy... then it just stops feeding it.


Actually, i'll go take a movie and post it on youtube.

back in 15


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## briansol (Feb 2, 2009)

lol, it never fails.   the ONE time i want to to not start like it's been doing so i can show you guys, and it actually works as it should.  :shrug:   i'm not going to turn it off now just to show.   There's obviously something wrong, but i don't know what.   I should be able to get 4 or 5 days out of this burn before the ash needs to be cleaned out.  So, we'll see if it stays on for that long i guess.


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## South of Boston (Feb 2, 2009)

Seems like maybe a loose wire. They are very sensitive and with an insert they get banged around when you pull it out for cleaning.
I wish the insert where designed with small wheels on the base for pulling out easier.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 3, 2009)

Follow the wiring from that blank blank snap disk to the control panel with the stove off and unplugged.

Re seat every connection along that path.


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## briansol (Feb 7, 2009)

Well, it ran all week.  Last sunday it finally started.
Today, i had to shut it down to clean it out.

Of course, now i can't get it started again.

please save-as.   streaming it will wreak havoc on my server.

Thanks


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## briansol (Feb 8, 2009)

a day later, and every 15 min re-trying, it finally kicked over.   :shrug:  something's wack with it.


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## kai1414 (Oct 4, 2011)

Did you ever resolve the issue for good?


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## briansol (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes, it was the exhaust convection blower snap switch.  I must've jumped it wrong.


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## briansol (Jan 19, 2012)

Bumping this back up.

guess what popped again?  yep- proof of fire snap switch is toast.

Why am I going through these once a year?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2012)

briansol said:
			
		

> Bumping this back up.
> 
> guess what popped again?  yep- proof of fire snap switch is toast.
> 
> Why am I going through these once a year?



Get a ceramic one they can take the continuous  high temperatures better than the bakelite/plastic ones.


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