# Snake ID



## Ashful (Jun 8, 2013)

Brown with black spots and yellow stripes.  18" long, 1/2 - 3/4" dia.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2013)

Was a garter.  Let go near the wood lot.


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## StihlHead (Jun 8, 2013)

Yah, its not a diamond back rattler... its a checkered garter. A ways north for that species.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2013)

Garters are fairly common around here. I don't see them often myself, but others do.  My family seems to have run-ins with copperheads and rattlers, instead.


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## StihlHead (Jun 8, 2013)

I would expect you to have eastern garters, but not checkered garters. Checkered garters supposedly can be tamed rather fast and are more common in places like Texas.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> I would expect you to have eastern garters, but not checkered garters. Checkered garters supposedly can be tamed rather fast and are more common in places like Texas.


 

Ah... showing my ignorance, again.  At my old place, I'd see a snake maybe once every 10 years.  By the time I'd see one again, I'd forget what a garter looked like.  

New place is decidedly more rural.  Neighbors tell me I'll become much more familiar with snakes, living here.


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## osagebow (Jun 8, 2013)

Joful said:


> Ah... showing my ignorance, again. At my old place, I'd see a snake maybe once every 10 years. By the time I'd see one again, I'd forget what a garter looked like.
> 
> New place is decidedly more rural. Neighbors tell me I'll become much more familiar with snakes, living here.


 
Unless you get up on a ridge in a state forest where the Timber rattlers are, the only common venomous guy there will be a copperhead.(Many snakes will rattle their naked tails, and in dry leaves, it's a very good impression.) 
You might see a milk snake or water snake often mistaken for them . Note the oval brown saddles on grey for the milk, the unpointed bands on the water and connecting Hershey kisses on the copperhead. That old guy at the river calling that watersnake a "water moccasin" is wrong. None in PA.
.http://www.fish.state.pa.us/copprhe.htm


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## Hogwildz (Jun 9, 2013)

Mostly black snakes round here. Always sunning in front of the garage doors. Always catch me off guard when I walk out the front door, and then I yell at them telling them how the scared the crap out of me LOL.
There was a nice large one hanging in the garage at times. This one today was smaller, maybe 4'.


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## osagebow (Jun 9, 2013)

Good mousers. Hopefully no 30' mutant ones come over from the nuke plant!


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## Hogwildz (Jun 9, 2013)

I don't know how big they can get. The largest I seen was the one in the garage, he was about 5' i guess maybe 2" to 2-1/2 " wide my best guess. Is mostly all black. Not sure if it is a rat snake or a black racer.
Always see the offspring slithering around out front around the entrance way and out back near the porch. They need to eat more mice, as there is no shortage of them round here.


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## Hogwildz (Jun 9, 2013)

Here is two I caught mating in the garage. Let them go up the road a bit. Actually I don't even know if they mate. Just figured they were getting it on in the garage.


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## osagebow (Jun 9, 2013)

Nice! My personal record was 6' 2".Probably caught over 100 as a kid, mostly in PA. They can push 7' though, and hysterical people swear they are 10'


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## Ehouse (Jun 9, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> I would expect you to have eastern garters, but not checkered garters. Checkered garters supposedly can be tamed rather fast and are more common in places like Texas.


 

Lots of that color phase here in central NY.


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## Ashful (Jun 9, 2013)

osagebow said:


> Nice! My personal record was 6' 2".Probably caught over 100 as a kid, mostly in PA. They can push 7' though, and hysterical people swear they are 10'



If I saw a 7' snake in my garage, I'd want to be REAL sure of proper ID before I go shooing it into a bucket.


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## StihlHead (Jun 9, 2013)

Snakes on a PLANE!

Sorry, had to say that.

Seems odd that they are in NY and PA. Checkered garters are listed as having a southern US habitat. In some states, like Kansas, they are listed as endangered. Maybe they are moving north?


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## Ashful (Jun 9, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Snakes on a PLANE!
> 
> Sorry, had to say that.



Larry on the TV-dubbed version:  "I'm tired of these monkey-fighting snakes on this Monday to Friday plane!"

No kidding, I couldn't make that up.


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## Ehouse (Jun 10, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Snakes on a PLANE!
> 
> Sorry, had to say that.
> 
> Seems odd that they are in NY and PA. Checkered garters are listed as having a southern US habitat. In some states, like Kansas, they are listed as endangered. Maybe they are moving north?


 

NY lists them as just highly variable including many pics of checkered individuals.  My little girl kept one (checkered) for the summer last year.  Maybe it's regarded as a separate species or sub-species in the southwest?


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## basod (Jun 10, 2013)

It's pretty amazing how many variations there can be within one species of snake.  Around here there is crossbreeding that can make it near impossible to truly distinguish the snake.

If you ever find an intact shed the trick to identifying poisonous vs. non-poisonous is the underbelly segments behind the anus.
Split segments=non poisonous(except for coral snake) and solid segments=poisonous


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## Ashful (Jun 10, 2013)

Interesting, but sort of irrelevant, if all you have is a shed skin.  I care more at the moment when I find a live snake in the garage.

'"Now roll over, so I can tell if you're poisonous."


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## StihlHead (Jun 10, 2013)

Compared to places like Australia, Asia and Africa, we have very few poisonous snakes here. They are:

Pit vipers: 17 species all over, including Rattlers, Water Moccasin/Cottonmouths, and Copperheads.
Coral snakes: 2 species found mostly in the southern most US states. Remember _Red on yellow can kill a fellow._


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## Ehouse (Jun 10, 2013)

Not to quibble, but it's raining and I like snakes;  The Yellow Bellied Sea Snake, a marine species is listed as occasional in southern California, supposedly weaker venom than some, but dangerous.

Two rear fanged and mildly venomous Night Snakes (California and Desert) are native to California.


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## StihlHead (Jun 10, 2013)

Well, I have been out stomping around the great outdoors my entire life, and I have seen only one poisonous snake. That was a large rattler just east of Big Sur, California on a camping/hiking trip in a remote place called Pine Valley. I lived all over California for 40 years, including the desert and San Diego, and I never heard of those other snakes. But I guess I have to stand corrected....


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## Ehouse (Jun 10, 2013)

Nah, not corrected, augmented.  I've never seen a live one in the wild in the US, although the PA railroad guys from places like Shikshinny, Wapwallopen, Macanacwa,and Hop Bottom used to bring rattlers for lunch on occasion They liked the yellar phase best!  The only two poisonous snakes I've seen at large were within 20 min. of each other in Costa Rica.  Found a dead one of the above sea snakes on Playa Conchal early one morning and of course poked it with a stick in true Hominid fashion ( better'n a finger though).  Lucky I wasn't between it and the beach or it woulda' bored right through me!  Decided to circle the lagoon through the brush and scree in my flip flops in true Buffet fashion (better'n bare foot though) and scuffed up a baby Terciopelo ( Fer de lance) inches from my big toe.  He stared at it (the toe) till I felt a need to break the impasse before he did and snached it away (the toe).  I've since surmised that the large toe in our species serves as sort of an advance guard against assult of various forms and have taken to painting eyes on mine to heighten the effect.


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## StihlHead (Jun 10, 2013)

So here I sit, augmented...

But crickey mate! Better not wind up dead like that Crocodile Hunter! I know he was not killed by a snake, or a big crock, but he messed with them all the time.


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## semipro (Jun 10, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> I've since surmised that the large toe in our species serves as sort of an advance guard against assult of various forms and have taken to painting eyes on mine to heighten the effect.


Funniest thing I've heard today!
Think I'll do it myself if for no other reason than the funny looks.


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## Ehouse (Jun 10, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> So here I sit, augmented...
> 
> But crickey mate! Better not wind up dead like that Crocodile Hunter! I know he was not killed by a snake, or a big crock, but he messed with them all the time.


 

Stingray's barb to the chest wasn't it?   Not to worry, I prefer Marlon Perkins' method of engaging exotic fauna:  "He's a big one Jim!  be careful!  Get around behind 'im!  Watch out for that tail Jim!"  "Well Jim got into some trouble with that one, and when you find yourself in trouble, Mutual of Omaha.......


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## Ehouse (Jun 10, 2013)

semipro said:


> Funniest thing I've heard today!
> Think I'll do it myself if for no other reason than the funny looks.


 

The possibilities are endless.


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## Hearth Mistress (Jun 10, 2013)

osagebow said:


> Unless you get up on a ridge in a state forest where the Timber rattlers are, the only common venomous guy there will be a copperhead



You don't have to be all that far away from the "city" to see Timber Rattlers.  I'm only about 50 miles outside of Philadelphia and this time of year, wet spring to summer, those dang rattlers are all over, along with Northern Copperheads. We have black racers and garters too that easily grow big, close to 3 foot racer out there today, being so close the the Delaware River, plenty of food. I can't let the dogs out unsupervised, neighbor's dog got bit a few years ago and didn't recover, he was a 18lb terrier mix, close to the size of my guys.



Joful said:


> If I saw a 7' snake in my garage, I'd want to be REAL sure of proper ID before I go shooing it into a bucket.



Joful, there are a lot of good photo ids for local snakes from the fish and game commission, here is one 

http://fishandboat.com/factsnake.pdf


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## StihlHead (Jun 10, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> Stingray's barb to the chest wasn't it? Not to worry, I prefer Marlon Perkins' method of engaging exotic fauna: "He's a big one Jim! be careful! Get around behind 'im! Watch out for that tail Jim!" "Well Jim got into some trouble with that one, and when you find yourself in trouble, Mutual of Omaha.......


 
You mean keep the beer between you an the guy handling the venomous snake? 

Yah, its was a sting ray barb that got the Crock Man. At least he was doing what he loved to be doing... the only way to go.

I have a hard enough time with exotic flora on my property, which around here is worse than the fauna. Stinging nettles, poison oak and razor sharp blackberry thorns. The only snakes here I have seen are garters. My cat hunts them, along with blue belly lizards. He also hunts and east voles, rabbits, moles and mice. No birds or bats; I let them go of he catches them.



Hearth Mistress said:


> I can't let the dogs out unsupervised, neighbor's dog got bit a few years ago and didn't recover, he was a 18lb terrier mix, close to the size of my guys.


 
18 pound dogs? My cat weighed in at 25 pounds the last time I took him to the vet...

View attachment 103701


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## Hearth Mistress (Jun 10, 2013)

I have 2 Jack Russell Terriers, not big dogs....but don't tell THEM that! Bryn is 9 and is 23 lbs and Riley is just about 2 and 19lbs My grandmothers cat was 28lbs when she passed at 14, she loved pasta, her name was "officially" Penny but we all called her "big Gal butter ball" she was a great cat


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## Ashful (Jun 10, 2013)

Them're some pretty big dawgs.  I've got two min-pins.  "King of the Toys," they think they're big dogs.  Most weigh 8 - 10 lb.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/miniature_pinscher/index.cfm


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## Hearth Mistress (Jun 10, 2013)

Joful said:


> Them're some pretty big dawgs.  I've got two min-pins.  "King of the Toys," they think they're big dogs.  Most weigh 8 - 10 lb.
> 
> http://www.akc.org/breeds/miniature_pinscher/index.cfm


Hah! I had "real" big dogs as kids, irish wolf hounds, shepards, etc but my hubby had JRT when we met and we've just stayed with the breed. My dogs look down for snakes and up for turkey buzzards, they know they can be a food source  those snakes are now joke with little dogs so it's a good idea to know what's around and how to identify them and their habitat to keep eveyone safe and bite free


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## StihlHead (Jun 11, 2013)

Hearth Mistress said:


> I have 2 Jack Russell Terriers, not big dogs....but don't tell THEM that! Bryn is 9 and is 23 lbs and Riley is just about 2 and 19lbs My grandmothers cat was 28lbs when she passed at 14, she loved pasta, her name was "officially" Penny but we all called her "big Gal butter ball" she was a great cat


 
For small dogs, Jack Russels are actually pretty good. I generally do not like most small dog breeds, especially the super miniature yapping toys.


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## Ashful (Jun 11, 2013)

Hearth Mistress said:


> Hah! I had "real" big dogs as kids, irish wolf hounds, shepards, etc but my hubby had JRT when we met and we've just stayed with the breed.


 

Yeah, I had a German Shepherd and a Shepherd / Lab mutt growing up.  Great dogs, but I'm too allergic to have them in the house, now.  Small dogs = less surface area = less allergens.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 11, 2013)

We have 2 shih tzus and a mini-schnauzer mix. Not yappy, super friendly, and my wife- who is allergic to real dogs- is not allergic to them. We love them all, but the mini-schnauzer has CRAZY energy and is just hilarious. If you are looking for a smaller dog, you could do worse.

edit: of course I am a STRONG proponent of adopting rescues, but there's nothing wrong with looking for a breed. It kills me to see some of the larger breeds that live very short lives and have all manner of issues still being bred on purpose, but that's a personal thing for me I guess.


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## Hearth Mistress (Jun 11, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> edit: of course I am a STRONG proponent of adopting rescues, but there's nothing wrong with looking for a breed. It kills me to see some of the larger breeds that live very short lives and have all manner of issues still being bred on purpose, but that's a personal thing for me I guess.


All of our dogs, as a kid and now as an adult were rescues, we drove 3 hours each way to get our most recent dog. I am a big fan myself of rescues and no fan of puppy mills!


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## basod (Jun 11, 2013)

Joful said:


> Interesting, but sort of irrelevant, if all you have is a shed skin. I care more at the moment when I find a live snake in the garage.
> 
> '"Now roll over, so I can tell if you're poisonous."


No... so when you find a shed laying around you know there is a venomous snake(or friendly ratter) in the neighborhood.  Many times I find a shed up around the garage or around the foundation within hours of having been in the vicinity - tends to put my mind at ease it's not a Copperhead\eastern diamond back\timber rattler laying under the deck.  Cottonmouths are easy to identify - fat short stocky body and thin tail, there's almost no taper to it just fat then tiny whip
I had a 4' rat snake in the flower bed when coming in this afternoon - GF said it would not have lived if I weren't home. It's hiding under my AC unit last I saw
The other identifiers are easy at a decent distance - round pupils, and lack of second "nostril" or the pit's of a viper.  Head shape is difficult for folks that seldom see snakes IMO


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## basod (Jun 12, 2013)

Would this guy scare you?


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## Ashful (Jun 12, 2013)

Any snake scares me, until I'm able to confirm it's not venomous.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 12, 2013)

basod said:


> Would this guy scare you?


 
Uhhh- I dunno- ask him to roll over


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## StihlHead (Jun 12, 2013)

basod said:


> Would this guy scare you?


 
Crikey! That's a big 'un!

Looks like a gopher snake. We have huge gopher snakes here in the west, and big king snakes as well.





Gopher snake






King snake (coral snakes have red on yellow)


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## osagebow (Jun 16, 2013)

Basod's looks like a grey rat snake or a young black rat. They get darker with age.


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## basod (Jun 18, 2013)

osagebow said:


> Basod's looks like a grey rat snake or a young black rat. They get darker with age.


Yeah my first instinct was rat snake...... the GF's was -shovel/hoe - it wouldn't have lived had I not been home
The rat snake's down here are so varied in color, I tend to  look from  a distance.
Being I saw this one in the wide open at first before it decided to occupy under my condenser for a couple days was cool with me... even though the condenser fan went out the next afternoon(not the snakes fault) when it was ~98/45%humidity.
I thought the sucker jinxed me - just a fan motor that had seen it's lifespan over 30+yrs


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