# Standing seasoned dead elm



## Heatmiser5 (Sep 3, 2011)

I have a bunch of dead standing elm free to me. Is it worth
The work to cut it down for firewood. I cut one down blocked
It and it split nice by hand. From what I have read here, elm seems
To be a pain to split. Not sure what type of elm this would be.
This would just round out my supply for this year.


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## begreen (Sep 3, 2011)

Elm twists as it grows. If this is easy to split, maybe it is not elm? Regardless, if it is hardwood and easy to harvest, go for it!


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## TreePointer (Sep 3, 2011)

I've run into some dead stand elm that actually split easier than live or declining DED elm.

I've also seen some EAB white ash that could be mistaken for elm after the bark falls off.


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## Thistle (Sep 3, 2011)

Its usually worth the effort for firewood,if it hasnt been standing more than 4-5 yrs,can get to be rotten then.I still cut 3-4 standing dead elms a year,usually American/White,but once in a while a Slippery/Red also.Not many bigger ones left around here,I did find over the summer 3 standing White & 1 Red 7" to around 12" diameter that died in the past year or two,hope to drop them in the next several weeks.Lots of smaller ones around that are still healthy,hoping they keep holding on a few more years.


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## Woody Stover (Sep 3, 2011)

Has the bark fallen off your stuff? If so, it may well be dry enough to burn this year. I've cut several dead standers recently. I _think_ they are Elm, based on small patches of bark still on at the base of some of the trees. I was able to split them by hand and they weren't very stringy. Maybe that was due to the fact that the wood was bowling-pin dry...or maybe it's not Elm. Nonetheless, it's dry firewood and that's what I'm after. It's got decent heft to it, indicating some heat value.
If the stuff you have is indeed Elm, it's good to burn. About the same BTU as Cherry, 20 M BTU/cord.


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2011)

Here is a pic of some Elm I split. Was dead standing for about 2 years. Still between 40%-20% M/C. The Higher I got the lower the M/C. But the Main trunk was around 35%. That was in May/June. It is now around 15%-20%. Didn't take it long at all. 

It was Stringy as all get out...


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## Duetech (Sep 3, 2011)

DexterDay's photos show a real good example of elm that has not undergone fungal or microbial decomposition. It's stringy. When elm starts to deteriorate from the inside due to fungus and bacteria it becomes easier to split and almost dangerous to split with a maul because it can break off in chunks instead of  making clean splits. If your wood is elm and it split easy I would think that it is on its last leg as premium firewood. It will still burn but may have lost some of its btu value. The type of elm will have a definite relation to the btu potential with red elm having the highest btu output. Red elm and white ash are veryclose to the same btu output. Either way elm or ash standing and left to rot is useless and will eventually come down. I recommend cutting it and using it. I have been cutting and using dead elm for the last 20 years and the source is about gone because elm disease attacks mature elms or when they become mature and prevents further seeding.


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## Heatmiser5 (Sep 3, 2011)

Dexter's elm looks nothing like mine. Mine has a look more
Similiar to oak, just a bit stringier. The bark was still on the
Trees. Most flew off when the tree hit the ground. Low on 
The trunk I could fairly easily peel it off one handed


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2011)

The color on the 3 to the right is from the Sun. They are getting the "Grey" Sun Faded Seasoned look. The Split farthest to the Left, still has a "Wood" color. It is a similar color to Oak, but the heart wood is all the same color. There is no "two-tone" look to the Rounds/splits. That split was under the other 3. 

Elm is some nasty stuff. The bark almost all fell off when it hit the ground. If there was any left, it fell off when I pulled the entire tree to my splitting area, with my truck. Then the very little tiny amount that was left, didn't stand a chance once the splitter "touched" it. The Bark fell off in Sheets. I wish I could De-Bark all my wood. Now that I am a few years ahead. I am being more picky with the Wood and like to get Bigger rounds, so there are more 100% Heartwood splits (No Bark). Dries faster and I can split them into squares (4 sides to dry faster and stacks easier, both in the stack and in the stove / Ask Backwoods/Dennis, he has some beautiful stacked ends). 

The elm will be ready this Winter, but I am going to wait till Jan or later before using. Just to give it a little more time.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 3, 2011)

The title of this thread is misleading to be sure. There is no such thing as Standing seasoned dead elm.

We've cut elm for many, many moons. We leave them standing until the bark has fallen off most of the tree. Yes, many times you will find that the upper limbs can be burned but you'd best figure on letting the main trunk, especially the lower you go, sit for 6 months minimum as there will be moisture in there. And as I've stated many times, letting the elm stand until the bark has fallen will most times let you split with an axe or maul if you want. It also will burn much better than elm that has been cut when green.

This is one thing the charts will not show. When they make the charts I highly doubt they know there is a difference in the btu rating of elm that has been cut green vs elm that was dead when cut. For sure I can tell you there is a huge difference in the amount of heat you will get with one over the other.


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## woodchip (Sep 4, 2011)

Dennis, are you saying that green elm cut and then seasoned in stacks will be a different btu value than standing deadwood that has been cut and seasoned down to the same moisture level?

The advantage I see in standing dead elm is the easy removal of the bark, which means less ash in the fire, and a cleaner burn.

No bark is also easier on the chainsaw as bark sometimes has dirt that can wear chains a bit quicker........ ;-)


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 4, 2011)

Yes woodchip.  When you cut and split elm when it is green you are liable to end up with splits like that one Jags likes to show. Really stringy. I split some for a fellow a few years ago that had just been cut green and just shuddered watching the wood come apart. Not only where the wedge was but other parts of the wood was opening up too. So, you let that stuff dry and throw it into the stove and it is like putting kindling in the stove as it burns up really fast.

But wait to cut that elm after it id dead and the bark has fallen off and then split it, it is as if you are splitting an entire different type of wood altogether. Naturally it will burn differently. You can load the whole stove with that type of elm and get a good decent burn. That is, it will not burn like kindling and be gone soon after closing the door. It is a world of difference and therefore you will get more useable heat per log.


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## Woody Stover (Sep 5, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> There is no such thing as Standing seasoned dead elm.
> We've cut elm for many, many moons. We leave them standing until the bark has fallen off most of the tree. Yes, many times you will find that the upper limbs can be burned but you'd best figure on letting the main trunk, especially the lower you go, sit for 6 months minimum as there will be moisture in there.


Maybe your sub-Arctic climate doesn't allow your Elm to get as dry when standing dead as it can here. ;-P 
As I mentioned above, I'm not 100% sure this stuff is Elm but take a look at these pics and see what you think.
A couple of these pics could be clearer, but the shutter speed was pretty slow. The first two bark pics are from a third similar tree that was next to the other two and still had the bark intact. I hung that bass turd up but it wasn't dry anyway, so I'll deal with it later. Bark fragments on the two dry ones were identical to the bark pictured. As you can see, this wasn't a huge tree but it was 10+ inches for sure. The first couple of rounds at the bottom of the trunk were 18-20% MC, but the freshly-split round shown here was one of the biggest. I stuck it with a fork...it's done. There _is_ dry wood out there and I'm grabbin' as much as I can! :coolgrin: 
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/001-15.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/002-9.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/003-7.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/004-1.jpg


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## TreePointer (Sep 5, 2011)

Difference could be slippery (red) vs. American (white).


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## DexterDay (Sep 5, 2011)

Woody Stover said:
			
		

> Backwoods Savage said:
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1st off. Does not look like White Elm. Its more of a white color than that. Could be Red based on the color?? 

  I have the same "General" M/C meter. It will read MUCH Higher when Buried in the Wood. The 2 prongs dont look like they are all the way in. Even in a "Fresh" split, the M/C can Vary greatly. The farther in, the better the reading. 14% is great, even if its just touching it dead standing. But overall may be a bit higher. IMO. Mine reads MUCH higher when fully buried along or across the grainb. Some say there is a difference. But if fresh split and fully buried in the wood. It does not matter. M/C is the same.


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## woodchip (Sep 5, 2011)

Whatever the state of seasoning, that wood looks worth getting, if not for now, for next year. 

Never turn down free heat...


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## Woody Stover (Sep 5, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> 1st off. Does not look like White Elm. Its more of a white color than that. Could be Red based on the color??
> I have the same "General" M/C meter. It will read MUCH Higher when Buried in the Wood. The 2 prongs dont look like they are all the way in. Even in a "Fresh" split, the M/C can Vary greatly. The farther in, the better the reading. 14% is great, even if its just touching it dead standing. But overall may be a bit higher. IMO. Mine reads MUCH higher when fully buried along or across the grainb. Some say there is a difference. But if fresh split and fully buried in the wood. It does not matter. M/C is the same.


Yeah, it doesn't look too white, does it? It's actually slightly redder than it appears in the pics. I _did_ have the pins buried into the wood pretty good, despite the appearance in the pic. Didn't hammer the meter in, though.  :lol: Definitely pleased to find something this dry. I poked several different spots...they all read close to that.
I'll be interested to see what the wood ID aces have to say about the bark. I should have got a better pic, but the one where part of the bark is stripped off is pretty clear.
This was at BIL's house, and I didn't steal his wood...this time. :lol: I was out in our woods the other day and saw Black Cherry that looked pretty dead, bark flaking off, and Dogwood with the bark off. I hope I can get as lucky on some of that.


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## HittinSteel (Sep 5, 2011)

Woody Stover said:
			
		

> DexterDay said:
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You have red elm there. Very good firewood in my opinion. I leave it in large splits and put one in the back of the stove for my overnight burn. Always plenty of it left in the morning to get the fire started again.


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## Thistle (Sep 5, 2011)

Maybe your sub-Arctic climate doesn't allow your Elm to get as dry when standing dead as it can here. ;-P 
As I mentioned above, I'm not 100% sure this stuff is Elm but take a look at these pics and see what you think.
A couple of these pics could be clearer, but the shutter speed was pretty slow. The first two bark pics are from a third similar tree that was next to the other two and still had the bark intact. I hung that bass turd up but it wasn't dry anyway, so I'll deal with it later. Bark fragments on the two dry ones were identical to the bark pictured. As you can see, this wasn't a huge tree but it was 10+ inches for sure. The first couple of rounds at the bottom of the trunk were 18-20% MC, but the freshly-split round shown here was one of the biggest. I stuck it with a fork...it's done. There _is_ dry wood out there and I'm grabbin' as much as I can! :coolgrin: 
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/001-15.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/002-9.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/003-7.jpg
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/004-1.jpg[/quote]


That's definetely Slippery/Red Elm. Great stuff to burn,fairly easy to split (compared to American/White),has a nice cinnamon or licorice scent when sawed or machined.Makes good lumber when found in large enough logs.I've built a small bookcase & 2 smaller footstools/benches,plus a couple turned bowls in the past.Not many larger ones left around here,lots of smaller ones scattered in the timber so far though.Found an 8" dead standing Red earlier in the Summer,it'll get dropped in a few weeks.

Here's some at parents acreage April 2011 -


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## JeffT (Sep 5, 2011)

Love the slippery elm.I will take all I can get.


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## Woody Stover (Sep 5, 2011)

HittinSteel said:
			
		

> You have red elm there. Very good firewood in my opinion. I leave it in large splits and put one in the back of the stove for my overnight burn. Always plenty of it left in the morning to get the fire started again.


Cool! When they cut a branch off the Shingle Oak that was overhanging the house, the tree guy also ended up cutting what he called an "Elm" that we wanted removed. Seems to me that wood was white  and super-stringy when I split it. This stuff isn't. I went out to look at a few splits I still have in the pile. I couldn't pull them out, but the bark looks a little different than what's pictured above. I see in the Field Book that both Slippery Elm and September Elm have the nickname "Red," with Slippery having a much bigger native range. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled in the woods for a live specimen with some leaves I can look at. They say you can also expose the slippery inner bark of a twig to comfirm it. I think the bark pics in the Field Guide are from big trees, so bark ID is hard if you have a smaller tree like this one...


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## Woody Stover (Sep 5, 2011)

Hmmm....
http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/image/u/ulru--brlarge11336.htm


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## Woody Stover (Sep 5, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> That's definetely Slippery/Red Elm. Great stuff to burn,fairly easy to split (compared to American/White),has a nice cinnamon or licorice scent when sawed or machined.


Daggone it, I forgot to huff the ends of the rounds! That stack looks identical to the one in my pic!  :gulp:


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 5, 2011)

Looks like some good stuff there Woody.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 7, 2011)

Heatmiser5 said:
			
		

> I have a bunch of dead standing elm free to me. Is it worth
> The work to cut it down for firewood. I cut one down blocked
> It and it split nice by hand. From what I have read here, elm seems
> To be a pain to split. Not sure what type of elm this would be.
> This would just round out my supply for this year.



Yes -- definitely take this wood. . . in my first year of burning I took down some standing dead elm around my house and while I only bucked it up and split it up in early Summer meaning it was only semi-seasoned it helped me out a lot. At the time I honestly thought I had good wood . . . until I burned wood the following year that had been seasoned for an entire year and then I saw the light so to speak as there was a notable difference in how quick the wood ignited and the secondary action. That said . . . having semi-seasoned wood was better than fresh cut wood in the first year.

As for splitting . . . elm is notoriously difficult and stringy when splitting . . . but when the elm is dead-dead -- standing dead with the bark missing or almost completely falling off it often splits like a dream. That said . . . I still tend to use my hydraulic splitter.


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## Heatmiser5 (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks,  so far I have around ten face cord of year and a 
Half well seasoned mixed to get me mostly through this winter.
 I hope to finish my install and get my new stove fired up
This weekend


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## Woody Stover (Sep 8, 2011)

Heatmiser5 said:
			
		

> I hope to finish my install and get my new stove fired up
> This weekend


Pics are mandatory.  :cheese:


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## Heatmiser5 (Sep 8, 2011)

Pictures will be coming, Thai is if you 
Guys can stomach another 30-nch install


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## DexterDay (Sep 8, 2011)

Heatmiser5 said:
			
		

> Pictures will be coming, Thai is if you
> Guys can stomach another 30-nch install



There have been a few of them recently..... I want to see another. im sure others do too. Pics... Love the Pics.


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## woodchip (Sep 8, 2011)

We love pictures  ;-)


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## JrCRXHF (Sep 8, 2011)

2 large red elm and one maple from a couple doors down the Elm is really wet and heavy wood. 

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...Sw/hTkn9MlCjN0/s800/2011-09-02%2014.38.07.jpg


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## NextEndeavor (Oct 5, 2011)

My neighbor had a tree go down last June in a low area of his field that was sandy due to the small creek action when it rains.  It fell over but still with support from the roots so barely touched the ground.   It had an elm on each side of it with the same bark identified by leaves and my field book.  This past Sunday I went after it.  Oddly enough, most of the bark fell right off as I cut it so it must have been dead a while.  This thing took most of my 18 inch bar near the bottom and completely filled a full size pickup.  The other reason it must have been elm ..... it stunk bad when splitting.  Now it's two days later and the smell where stacked has greatly reduced.  I won't need to burn this stack till next year and probably a good thing because it surprised how water squeezed out of it during a few of the hydraulic powered splits.  It's not decomposed yet so believe this one is worth the afternoon effort.  There were some real stringy pieces kicking the two stage pump to slow speed.   I'd hate to have attempted those with a maul.


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## DuckDog (Oct 6, 2011)

I just cut 2 big elm down a couple months ago. They were both standing dead with the bark off for a couple years (darn dutch elm disease). They are perfect for fall and spring burns when you can get away with a little less btu / burn time.
Terrible to split.  I needed an 8lb maul, a 6lb sledge and a couple of wedges...... Still worth it though.


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