# Anyone have experience with a longburner insert?



## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum earlier...here's my question.... Still trying to find a stove and have come across a longburner insert. Can't find much info on them. Searched the stove ratings and can't find anyone who has owned one. Anybody with any experience? The man selling it says its a great stove but I'd like some other input.  This is the link to the listing so that you can see pics and description.  

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/fod/4251357161.html

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## HotCoals (Dec 29, 2013)

If it is pre-epa I would probably pass,but that might just be me.
Secondary combustion is really a great thing..in more ways then one. I don't know if this stove has that but doubt it.
If you just want a fire now and then it probably would be fine.
I prefer a glass window also. Maybe not a deal breaker for you.


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## bluedogz (Dec 29, 2013)

Ad appears to be representing they are a stove shop, but then they say, "PUSH IT IN THE FIREPLACE OPENING and FIRE IT UP" which is not what a professional would say if they wish to keep their licenses.  Also, even Google turns up no reference to this brand except for CL ads from this same guy... I'll let the people here who know more than me chime in from there.

EDIT: For $599 you can scare up a used EPA stove or even a new one (if you're lucky).  IMHO, I'd pass on this one.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

OK, thanks for the responses... here's my dilemma.... I can't find an insert that is big enough to heat our old (early 1900s) drafty 1700 square foot house that will fit in the fireplace opening.  The opening is 38 1/2 wide, 29 1/2 tall and 14 1/2 deep.  The depth is what keeps causing us problems.  Inserts that are big enough are too deep but this one wasn't which is what brought us to it.  Anybody have any suggestions??  I'm so tired of super high gas and electric bills only to continue to freeze to death!  I know there's the possibility of taking bricks out of the fireplace to make it deeper but honestly I'm scared to open that can of worms in a house this old.  Never know what kind of problems that might cause and we can't afford a big repair job right now.  Help please!


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Ad appears to be representing they are a stove shop, but then they say, "PUSH IT IN THE FIREPLACE OPENING and FIRE IT UP" which is not what a professional would say if they wish to keep their licenses


 
 Very true!  But I'm thinking he's just a restorer.  I don't figure he's any kind of professional.  One of the reasons I don't want to just take his word for it.  We are doing a pre insulated chimney liner no matter what stove we get.


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## weatherguy (Dec 29, 2013)

How big is the hearth in front of the fireplace?


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

The hearth in front is 24"


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## BrotherBart (Dec 29, 2013)

With that flue damper on top of it you wouldn't be able to install a liner on that old dog.


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## bluedogz (Dec 29, 2013)

MrsSouthy said:


> OK, thanks for the responses... here's my dilemma.... I can't find an insert that is big enough to heat our old (early 1900s) drafty 1700 square foot house that will fit in the fireplace opening.  The opening is 38 1/2 wide, 29 1/2 tall and 14 1/2 deep.  The depth is what keeps causing us problems.  Inserts that are big enough are too deep but this one wasn't which is what brought us to it.  Anybody have any suggestions??  I'm so tired of super high gas and electric bills only to continue to freeze to death!  I know there's the possibility of taking bricks out of the fireplace to make it deeper but honestly I'm scared to open that can of worms in a house this old.  Never know what kind of problems that might cause and we can't afford a big repair job right now.  Help please!



Within the next few hours, assuming you answer the measurement question(s), you're about to get firehosed with really good information, by people that know way more than me.  I'll hit a couple of high spots to start:

1)  Nothing says that you MUST have an insert that's exactly the same size as your firebox.  Even if an insert is the right tool, matching the depth is really the only sticking point.2) The option of using a freestanding stove set back into the existing opening should be on the table... more options, more control, more heat.
3)  You are correct that modifying the masonry fireplace is a potentially bad idea.  If you must spend money, spend it fixing the "drafty" problems first.

Information you'll need:
- is there an existing stove or insert?  If so, brand and model?  What's wrong with it, if anything?
- is your chimney lined?  If so, what size and material?
- is your chimney in good repair?  When was it last inspected by a licensed sweep?  When and how was it last cleaned?
- do you have a supply of wood put back to burn?  (This may seem premature... trust me, it isn't.)  If so, what type, and how long has it been stacked to dry?

That should get you started...


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## BrotherBart (Dec 29, 2013)

Your first post was in the correct forum for that stove,.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 29, 2013)

Pass


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## Dustin (Dec 29, 2013)

As others have said, I would pass on that.

I was in the same situation as you at one point. To save cash, I bought a pre EPA stove and connected it to a liner. The heat wasn't great, and a went through a ton of firewood.

Then, I got wise, found an EPA certified quad 4100i on craigslist for 1000 bucks. Bought it, and haven't looked back. 

Warmer, less wood use, and a cleaner chimney


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> With that flue damper on top of it you wouldn't be able to install a liner on that old dog


 
So that pretty much makes this one out of the question, right??  I mean I'm under the impression that a liner is a necessity, right???


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> The option of using a freestanding stove set back into the existing opening should be on the table


 
Definitely on the table.  We just haven't found one with the rear flue and right fit.  But yes, I've been looking at both.


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## bluedogz (Dec 29, 2013)

MrsSouthy said:


> So that pretty much makes this one out of the question, right??  I mean I'm under the impression that a liner is a necessity, right???



Some have gotten away without one, but some get away without seat belts too.



> Definitely on the table. We just haven't found one with the rear flue and right fit. But yes, I've been looking at both.



Rear flue may not be necessary.





> The opening is 38 1/2 wide, 29 1/2 tall and 14 1/2 deep.



By my math, could fit an NC30... and that would pump out plenty of heat for not a lot of cash.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 29, 2013)

Yes, highly suggest liner.
What is your budget?
A Regency hearth heater may work.

http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/H2100.aspx

Blue's suggestion of an Englander 30 would be primo, if it fits.


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## bluedogz (Dec 29, 2013)

Hogz, am I right on the rear-flue-not-needed idea?


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## laynes69 (Dec 29, 2013)

I don't know where you are in Ohio, but I know it's difficult to get a decent stove or insert on craigslist. Most I see are ancient, rusted out, non EPA garbage. The folks here will guide you in the right direction.  

For the time being while looking for an insert or stove, if you have attic access I would investigate and do some airsealing to help lower some of the energy usage. A few dollars for some caulking and foam can go quite a ways in savings, especially if there's large gaps up above. Every crack and crevice you seal will help out.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Rear flue may not be necessary


 
 How would that work?  Totally open to new ideas!  Maybe you all can/have thought of something we haven't been able to come up with.




bluedogz said:


> By my math, could fit an NC30... and that would pump out plenty of heat for not a lot of cash.


 
I love the look of that stove and have looked at it but we have 29 1/2 and where I looked at it on home depot it said assembled height was 29.75.  I just don't see how to make it work.  Do they have an insert model I'm not seeing?  Not only that but unless we want to start dismantling bricks we need to have room in that 29.5 inches for the stove and the connection to the flex pipe.  The flex pipe has to come down into the fireplace opening because the opening from the fireplace up into the chimney is 5.75 inches.  We had a certified chimney sweep come and check out the chimney and everything and he said we could get away with that little bit of difference without having to take bricks out.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 29, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> What is your budget?


 
I am in college and we are working with one income right now so our budget is modest to say the least.  We need to spend as little as possible.  In 3 yrs or so when I graduate and am working full time it won't be an issue.  But for now it is.




laynes69 said:


> I don't know where you are in Ohio, but I know it's difficult to get a decent stove or insert on craigslist. Most I see are ancient, rusted out, non EPA garbage.


 
Yep.  We are in southern Ohio, by the river, but I'm seeing the same thing.  Every time we find one that looks like it might be worth something its already sold. :/  Its getting frustrating.


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## bluedogz (Dec 29, 2013)

> home depot it said assembled height was 29.75.



I would think trimming 1/4" off the legs could be done.  A good metal shop could do that.  Stoveguy2ESW is your man here to answer that question about Englander's work.



> Every time we find one that looks like it might be worth something its already sold. :/ Its getting frustrating.



Took me 6 months to find mine, and even then it was a race to see which buyer got there first.  The gang here is good at scouring CL for the right thing.  Also, good deals can be found on new stock by hunting.


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## jrems (Dec 29, 2013)

Just keep looking you will eventually find a good one.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 30, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Hogz, am I right on the rear-flue-not-needed idea?


Yes, a rear flue is not exclusively necessary, I would prefer to top outlet myself if doable.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 30, 2013)

The stove comes with pedestal installed, and  9" legs inside if you want legs instead of the pedestal.
They also offer a 6" leg kit. You may be able to use them without any trimming.
Or use the 6" legs and trim them for a little more work room. There are options.


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## rwhite (Dec 30, 2013)

I agree...keep looking. One will come up. I looked everyday for months because I didn't have the cash to drop on a new stove. A good EPA stove will come up sooner or later. I had to do a 6 (3 each way) hour road trip to get mine. Did all the work myself an used a 20' insulated liner kit and came in around $1k. Make sure you search for every possible variation of woodstove, wood stove, fireplace, fire place etc.

Just a  quick look at craigslist in your area brought up these:

Don't know if this is an EPA model or not:

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/app/4263249884.html
http://dayton.craigslist.org/hsh/4255831366.html


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> The stove comes with pedestal installed, and 9" legs inside if you want legs instead of the pedestal. They also offer a 6" leg kit. You may be able to use them without any trimming. Or use the 6" legs and trim them for a little more work room. There are options.


 
Is it possible to use it without the pedestal or legs??  Like, just sit it down in the fireplace??  The would totally make it possible!  Is this a crazy idea?  And we are still talking about the Englander, right?


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## Hogwildz (Dec 30, 2013)

We are talking about the Englander. I don't think you can rest it on it's belly. You want at least something for legs on it.
I would not go completely without legs myself.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> We are talking about the Englander. I don't think you can rest it on it's belly. You want at least something for legs on it. I would not go completely without legs myself.


 
Ok.  Well it was worth a shot.  I found a drolet that looks like it would completely fit the bill....except the darn depth.  I have 14.5 and this drolet needs 15.75.  Sooooo close  Is there a safe way around that??  Is there an adjustment we can make aside from removing bricks?  Can it just be moved out on the hearth a little farther?


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## Hogwildz (Dec 30, 2013)

I suppose if you have a deep enough hearth, you could put the Drolet in there with it extended out a bit, as long as you can still get a liner to the outlet of the stove, and as long as you still meet the hearth requirements in front. You can always extend the hearth if need be.


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## bluedogz (Dec 30, 2013)

MrsSouthy said:


> Ok.  Well it was worth a shot.  I found a drolet that looks like it would completely fit the bill....except the darn depth.  I have 14.5 and this drolet needs 15.75.  Sooooo close  Is there a safe way around that??  Is there an adjustment we can make aside from removing bricks?  Can it just be moved out on the hearth a little farther?


 
I think this is why someone above asked how deep the hearth is... take out a ruler and look at how long 1 1/4" is... yes, a stove or insert can be moved out a bit.  Look at the manual for your model and read the Specifications section.  You MAY need to add a bit of proection in front of the hearth but may not.

For example, I picked a random Drolet manual here: http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/158967.pdf
Which says mandatory 18" floor protection to the front.  So, a 14 1/2" firebox + 24" hearth means we have 38 1/2" to work with, 15 3/4 stove +
 18" clearance<38 1/2", so it seems my example would work.

Manual for the NC30: http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/30-NC.pdf
Says front clearance=16", so if we can make the height work then you're there.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> For example, I picked a random Drolet manual here: http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/158967.pdf Which says mandatory 18" floor protection to the front. So, a 14 1/2" firebox + 24" hearth means we have 38 1/2" to work with, 15 3/4 stove + 18" clearance<38 1/2", so it seems my example would work.


 
The 15.75 is what drolet says is the minimum fireplace opening depth is.  The actual stove depth is 26 3/8, so basically 26.5.  So 26.5" plus the minimum required hearth in front of 16" is 42.5" so I'm 4" off from what I can tell.  Here's the link to the stove I'm talking about.  See what you think.

http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/escape-1800-i-wood-insert

So I guess my question is...is the 4" a deal breaker?  Are these mandatory requirements?


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Manual for the NC30: http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/30-NC.pdf Says front clearance=16", so if we can make the height work then you're there.


 
Maybe I'm doing this wrong because I'm coming up with a 8.5" hearth deficit of the nc30.  Here's my math...
Stove depth - 31" + hearth in front 16" = 47" total depth needed
47" total depth needed minus 38.5" actual depth I have = 8.5" deficit


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## begreen (Dec 30, 2013)

It could be even a bit more if the back of the fireplace is sloped, decreasing clearance. If all else works out, the hearth can be extended. How this is done depends on the current hearth design.


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## bluedogz (Dec 30, 2013)

MrsSouthy said:


> The 15.75 is what drolet says is the minimum fireplace opening depth is.  The actual stove depth is 26 3/8, so basically 26.5.  So 26.5" plus the minimum required hearth in front of 16" is 42.5" so I'm 4" off from what I can tell.  Here's the link to the stove I'm talking about.  See what you think.
> 
> http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/escape-1800-i-wood-insert
> 
> So I guess my question is...is the 4" a deal breaker?  Are these mandatory requirements?




With the ongoing disclaimer that many if not most people here know more than me...

Is 4" a deal-breaker?  Yes.  You're lighting a fire in your house... there is no margin for guesswork.

Are they mandatory?  It's unlikely the woodstove police will visit your house, but the insurance folks will likely look for documentation a new stove was installed correctly.



> Maybe I'm doing this wrong because I'm coming up with a 8.5" hearth deficit of the nc30. Here's my math...
> Stove depth - 31" + hearth in front 16" = 47" total depth needed
> 47" total depth needed minus 38.5" actual depth I have = 8.5" deficit



You have correctly identified my error.


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## rwhite (Dec 30, 2013)

I think it's about time for some pictures of your fireplace so folks can have a better sense of how they can help.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

rwhite said:


> I think it's about time for some pictures of your fireplace so folks can have a better sense of how they can help.


 
Sure!  I'll get some.




bluedogz said:


> Are they mandatory? It's unlikely the woodstove police will visit your house, but the insurance folks will likely look for documentation a new stove was installed correctly.


 
You really made me laugh out loud on this one   But yes I'm sure you are right.  The insurance company would frown on it and what am I paying all the money for insurance for if I'm not going to do this right...




bluedogz said:


> Is 4" a deal-breaker? Yes. You're lighting a fire in your house... there is no margin for guesswork.


 
I gotcha.  True.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 30, 2013)

#1 full view
#2 close up of opening
#3 the 5.75" opening where the flex pipe needs to come in (still have to take out the damper)
#4 shows the fireplace opening depth (14.5")
#5 shows additional hearth depth out past fireplace opening (24")


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## rwhite (Dec 30, 2013)

Look up inside your damper toward the back wall (this is where a big hand mirror and a flashlight come in handy). That back wall should be a smoke shelf. Others may chime in but on mine it provided no structural integrity to the chimney or fireplace. Had I needed to I could have taken out the entire smoke shelf and gained a 10" (4" brick + 6" dead space). Make sure you check clearance for any insert your looking at but a lot that I seen require 18" of hearth. So if that holds true you may have 6" to work with for the insert to stick out. I will go ahead and warn you to get an idea what is under that  tile on the hearth. Mine also sat level with the floor and it was only 2" of mortar then tile. Definately not enough r-value that is required. I had to build a free floating hearth 2" high and set the insert on pavers to level it.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 31, 2013)

I think we are ok on the hearth as far as what's under it because when we had the certified sweep/installer here to look things over and make sure our idea was doable he didn't seem to think we would have to do anything with it as far as deepening but I'm guessing it's going to be hard to find an insert that only sticks out 6" so I'm fairly certain we will need to extend the hearth.  The only thing I'm worried about there is aesthetics.  I'd like to find a way to make it look good (you know, since I'm a girl and all, lol) but haven't been able to come up with it yet.


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## bluedogz (Dec 31, 2013)

Depending on how handy the Southys are, making that hearth work doesn't seem like a crazy or expensive project.


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## MrsSouthy (Dec 31, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> bluedogz Minister of Fire Joined: Oct 9, 2011 Messages: 983 Loc: NE Maryland New Depending on how handy the Southys are, making that hearth work doesn't seem like a crazy or expensive project


 
Lol...well, we are as handy as we need to be I guess   We learn as we go and aren't usually afraid to tackle a project but a 100+ year old chimney and the fear of tearing something up makes me much more hesitant.  Now, Mr. Southy on the other hand...not quite as hesitant, lol.  If it were only his decision he would have grabbed the first insert he could find, shoved it in the hole and started burning the first load of wood he could have delivered!  I'm the researcher and thankfully he indulges my need to research thoroughly (sometimes even to a fault) and have things done the right way so it doesn't generally cause us problems


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## bluedogz (Dec 31, 2013)

Well, I wouldn't go down the road of busting things out... I was just talking about adding some r-value to that hearth to make it work.


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## rwhite (Dec 31, 2013)

Here's a link of what I had to do to make mine work. It will be great if you have to do nothing, but just in case:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...t-it-installed-and-running.75933/#post-971636


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