# Got my new toy and now dissapointed!



## iceman (Sep 8, 2009)

went by tsc to get my 22 ton splitter for 999.... well they have a speeco 25 ton for the same price!  this holds more hyd fluid and has a speeco engine on it.....  the guy swears by them all so i figure go with speeco even though huskee is really speeco.....well i get home fire it up, and it is loud...  my friends mtd is much quieter....  and when i ran the engine hard and the ram is retracted anything on it that can move rattles like hell....  i went to the speeco site and dont even see mine on there.... it did split the wood .... but it just wasnt what i was hoping for....


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## TMonter (Sep 8, 2009)

A few rattles are likely just a few loose fasteners.


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## iceman (Sep 8, 2009)

it was rattling very bad but the minute i extend the ram it stops ....  the safety chains anything thst can move will rattle ..my fear is its vibrating so muchh it will fall apart


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## fossil (Sep 8, 2009)

The minimum wage/minmum understanding kids in the store are the ones who assembled it out of the boxes.  Go over it thoroughly and tighten _everything_.  Rick


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## iceman (Sep 8, 2009)

fossil said:
			
		

> The minimum wage/minmum understanding kids in the store are the ones who assembled it out of the boxes.  Go over it thoroughly and tighten _everything_.  Rick



ok will try this afternoon and see what happens


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## savageactor7 (Sep 8, 2009)

Don't be discouraged...that's the way things are today. Do what fossil says and as you get familiar with the equipment perhaps you can isolate some vibrations with rubber mountings. A splitter for less than a grand isn't a bad purchase. Let us know how things work out and good luck with it iceman. When I got my splitter it was like I lost my virginity all over again.


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## smokinj (Sep 8, 2009)

thats a great price, fossil right


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## kevin j (Sep 8, 2009)

If there is still too much vibration after tightening everything up, you may be able to easily isolate the motor/pump package.
If the engine is mounted to a plate with 5/16 or 3/8 bolts, drill out the plate to 3/4 inch holes, deburr the corners, and use vib mounts from Grainger. They are $4 x 4 pcs and very easy to mount. I have done several this way, they a bit underloaded with only an engine on it but they certanly help. I don't have the grainger number here, have it on my computer at work. will add later. 


Edit and pasted in.
Note: assumes pump is mounted to bell housing adaptor mount off engine, not separately to the base plate. Pump and engine must be rigidly mounted together to hold alignment.

ENGINE     add vibration isolator mounts, 
     Grainger 5XK44 is  a common, two piece, center bonded mount, that use a ¾ inch hole in the base, 3/8 bolts for motor mounting. (4) required, about $4 each. These are quite stiff for the weight of a 5 hp engine, but are the smallest Grainger had in stock. With steel through bolt and sleeve, and washer on both sides, the engine is positively restrained in case of rubber deterioration. Simple to use: Just drill out the original motor mount holes in the splitter to 3/4 inch, deburr and install. Raises the engine slightly. My 18 hp engine is more in the weight rating and the mounts are quite effective. I used the mounts between engine and power unit frame, and also between power unit and trailer frame. Makes a sweet and quiet running package. 




kcj


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## maplewood (Sep 8, 2009)

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> .... When I got my splitter it was like I lost my virginity all over again.



I guess that says something about me still pounding away on my maul....  ;-(


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## daveswoodhauler (Sep 8, 2009)

Is the TSC near you?
If so, after tightening all the bolts and if that still rattles, I'd be taking the unit back for a new one. Just doesn;t seem right to redrill and modify a brand new unit.
Good luck!


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## LLigetfa (Sep 8, 2009)

kevin j said:
			
		

> If there is still too much vibration after tightening everything up, you may be able to easily isolate the motor/pump package.
> If the engine is mounted to a plate with 5/16 or 3/8 bolts, drill out the plate to 3/4 inch holes, deburr the corners, and use vib mounts from Grainger. They are $4 x 4 pcs and very easy to mount. I have done several this way, they a bit underloaded with only an engine on it but they certanly help. I don't have the grainger number here, have it on my computer at work. will add later.
> 
> kcj


Very often, the motor mounts to the base, and the pump separately mounts to the base.  Unless the pump mounts directly to the motor, I would not mess with the motor mounts.  Check the alignment and gap of the lovejoy coupling.  It could be the source of the vibration.  When it is vibrating, apply hand pressure to the wedge to see if it is the source of the noise.  The wedge floats on the beam and the dynamics of it change as it extends.

My splitter has the trunnion mount cylinder and when retracted, it raises the wedge slightly and will sometimes rattle.  As the ram extends, the weight of the wedge is further out like a kid sliding back on a teeter totter and the rattle stops.


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## kevin j (Sep 8, 2009)

agree with both. first option is return it if there is a defect. And any 'normal' rattling parts may be just the machines personality. 
I assumed the mechanical basics are covered first, the machine is up to spec, just that the basic design is cheap and can be improved.   Most consumer splitters I have seen (except the swisher belt drive) mount pump to engine with an adaptor and thus the package is aligned, bolted to machine frame with motor mount bolts. edited above accordingly.   kcj


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## LLigetfa (Sep 8, 2009)

Speeco lists four models with 25 tons and three of them have the pump mounted under the engine.  Only one has it on the side.  I would call TSC right away and put on record that there is an issue with the splitter and then try working with Speeco tech support to determine if your expectations need a realignment.


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## iceman (Sep 8, 2009)

ok , i called tsc and the guy was friendly and said " i told you yesterday i wasnt sure about that motor because the unit was a speeco they never had before... with a speeco engine so he didnt even know who made it"  which was true , however my splitter isnt on the web site the pump is on the side and the engine is mounted just like the 28 ton with the honda just a smaller engine
http://www.speeco.com/products/?CurOpen=Log Splitters#Log Splitters,28 Ton/401117N0-28 Ton Log Splitter
the guy at tsc said he was putting together another and was gonna run it to see if he got the same results....  in not he told me he would switch it, and if so he told me to come get the 22 ton or get the 28 and he would take a 100 off but 1399 isnt really what i wanna pay so we will see
just checked the engine it is a loncin engine
everything is tight started it again and the chains and hitch connection just rattle on ...  the engine seems to be mounted on with four bolts and it is steel -steel so maybe some anti vibe might work...  but the engine itself is still MUCH  lounder than the briggs or honda on comparable models that i have heard


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## thewoodlands (Sep 8, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> ok , i called tsc and the guy was friendly and said " i told you yesterday i wasnt sure about that motor because the unit was a speeco they never had before... with a speeco engine so he didnt even know who made it"  which was true , however my splitter isnt on the web site the pump is on the side and the engine is mounted just like the 28 ton with the honda just a smaller engine
> http://www.speeco.com/products/?CurOpen=Log Splitters#Log Splitters,28 Ton/401117N0-28 Ton Log Splitter
> the guy at tsc said he was putting together another and was gonna run it to see if he got the same results....  in not he told me he would switch it, and if so he told me to come get the 22 ton or get the 28 and he would take a 100 off but 1399 isnt really what i wanna pay so we will see
> just checked the engine it is a loncin engine



Opinions on Speeco splitters.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...peeco+wood+splitters&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Zap


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## iceman (Sep 8, 2009)

it seems everyone loves them maybe i just got a bad one (if indeed something is wrong)  but it seems to me that speeco is "changing the lineup" do know much about loncin engines but it isnt as beefy as the briggs or honda .. so maybe speeco is trying to cut back cost

the troybilt is now 1329 -10% so its 1196 with the honda engine so i am leaning towards that now or the homedepot version thats 1249-10%


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## burntime (Sep 9, 2009)

I have the 22 ton spee co over the 25 ton.  Mine has the larger resivior though.  It is much quieter then the 25 ton and has never let me down...


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## savageactor7 (Sep 9, 2009)

Ice don't worry about the chains or hitch rattling ...that don't mean anything! 

Are you wearing ear protectors? If not get some asap.


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## iceman (Sep 9, 2009)

the "new" 25 ton has a more fluid than the 22 it looks like the 28 ton except it has 22 ton beam and the small loncin engine everything else is the same as the 28 ton has a bigger resevoir prolly the same size as the older speecos had before this generation


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## rdust (Sep 9, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> the troybilt is now 1329 -10% so its 1196 with the honda engine so i am leaning towards that now or the homedepot version thats 1249-10%



I have the troybilt unit and my only knock is the slow cycle time.


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## iceman (Sep 9, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

> iceman said:
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decisions
but i don't think there are many splitters under 1500 with a good let alone fast cycle time


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## smokinj (Sep 9, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> rdust said:
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cycle time is over rated I have the troy built it runs longer than I can.


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## rdust (Sep 9, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> decisions
> but i don't think there are many splitters under 1500 with a good let alone fast cycle time



This is true although I thought the husky 22 ton was 14 seconds vs. 19 seconds of the troybilt 27 ton.  Not a bunch but I think it adds up over 10 cords.  I'm completely happy with it other then that and I'd buy it again.  I have a pretty good system worked out now that allows me to work pretty quick.


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## smokinj (Sep 9, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

> iceman said:
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done 5 cords in 5 1/2 hrs. today i dont think we used a full cycle more than 1/2 the time and wecome the few second breather for sure on the other 1/2 of the time


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## johnsopi (Sep 9, 2009)

Take it back if your not happy. It will always bother you. I  have a laptop computer that I wish I had returned. Now I'm stuck with it and the whole 
family complains about it.


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## kevin j (Sep 9, 2009)

I have used a lot of splitters , doing mostly stringy smaller trees, like elm that has to be fought to the very end of the stroke. By far my biggest frustration has always been cycle time. Maybe 1% of the time is it too short on force. And then I just carve off the sides if the cycle time is quick. Or toss it into the pile to quarter with the saw, or toss it into the woods and move on to other rounds. I want to spend time picking the easy fruit. 
If it pops in 4 inches of stroke, or runs it fully through on fast mode and doesn't unload, I can see the cycle is not so important.
but for me, speed is the issue. an extra 5 seconds per stroke times hundreds of strokes is significant.
but still way better than a maul.

kcj


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## m0jumb0 (Sep 10, 2009)

I noticed some rattles on my 22 ton huskee, but nothing that I would call out of the ordinary.  I always wear hearing protection when using any of my power equipment, so most things go unnoticed.  That can be good or bad I guess.


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## Gooserider (Sep 10, 2009)

For what it's worth department, my understanding is that a "Loncin" engine is one of the many "China Clone" copies of the Honda engines, down to being pretty much parts interchangeable...  Maybe they cheaped out on the muffler and / or air filter setup...  Another thing to look at is the position of the muffler diverter - on many of the OPE engines I've seen, the muffler will have a little round diverter plate on the outlet, that screws on with a couple of sheet metal screws, and directs the exhaust output.  It has a bunch of holes in it that allow it to be pointed in different directions - on my HF splitter it came pointed where it would be puffing right at me when running vertically.  I rotated it to point the other way, and greatly reduced the percieved noise level, and improved the local air quality...  My Subaru/Robin engine (another Honda clone) is now almost quiet enough not to need ear protection.

Gooserider


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## iceman (Sep 12, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> For what it's worth department, my understanding is that a "Loncin" engine is one of the many "China Clone" copies of the Honda engines, down to being pretty much parts interchangeable...  Maybe they cheaped out on the muffler and / or air filter setup...  Another thing to look at is the position of the muffler diverter - on many of the OPE engines I've seen, the muffler will have a little round diverter plate on the outlet, that screws on with a couple of sheet metal screws, and directs the exhaust output.  It has a bunch of holes in it that allow it to be pointed in different directions - on my HF splitter it came pointed where it would be puffing right at me when running vertically.  I rotated it to point the other way, and greatly reduced the percieved noise level, and improved the local air quality...  My Subaru/Robin engine (another Honda clone) is now almost quiet enough not to need ear protection.
> 
> Gooserider




i looked at the muffler and it doesnt look like what you explained.. however, it does look like there are 2 holes and i could add a deflector to the outside of it..??   its funny because yes when in vertical you are standing in front of the exhaust!  
the guy hasnt called back from the store so i am just about ready to take it back regardless.....  i cant find this splitter anywhere on the spee co site, no other tsc stor seems to have them in this area except the one store i got from.....  and the manager is so "busy" he cant seem to help me resolve this.....   i heard such great things about spee co/huskee and as fate would have it, i get the bad apple.... well seems like the troy bilt is sounding perty good right now


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## burntime (Sep 12, 2009)

I have a 31 quart resivior...I think the new ones are 17...


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## iceman (Sep 13, 2009)

burntime said:
			
		

> I have a 31 quart resivior...I think the new ones are 17...



whatever the 28 ton has that is what mine has when they were side by side mine was bigger than the 22 but the same size as the 28 
but what do i know anyways i cant even prove my splitter exists cant find another one anywhere!


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## crazy_dan (Sep 13, 2009)

It was made with the parts left over on a Friday when they needed 1 more to meet production.
that or they hired Dr. Frankenstein.


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## iceman (Sep 13, 2009)

well i spoke to the manager who said he would take 100 off of the 28 ton so 1399+tax
i can get the troybilt for 1196 +tax so it might be cheaper to try and fix this one...
the manager did say he didnt get a chance to check the other one because it sold ....
sooooooooooo.........   do i pay 200 more for a troybilt or stay with a speeco?


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## burntime (Sep 13, 2009)

Speeco hands down...


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## iceman (Sep 13, 2009)

burntime said:
			
		

> Speeco hands down...



whats the diff between speeco and huskee? i know spee co makes huskee but do they use cheaper parts in huskee?


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## burntime (Sep 13, 2009)

Huskee is made by speeco.  Same basic thing with a different name.


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## iceman (Sep 13, 2009)

here are the pics of the speeco..... my guess is its 4 1/2 inch cyclinder it has 1/2 and 3/4 inch lines on it


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## LLigetfa (Sep 14, 2009)

Odd that they put the filter on the intake rather than return line.


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## iceman (Sep 14, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Odd that they put the filter on the intake rather than return line.



is this the first one you have seen?
is it something abnormal?  could it be wrong?


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## Gooserider (Sep 14, 2009)

Sounds to me like the unit you have is better for the price than the alternatives...  Obviously it's hard to tell how bad things are when we can't see it for ourselves, but it doesn't sound like a big problem.  As others have suggested it sounds like it's worth checking the alignment of the lovejoy connector between the pump and motor, including making sure that they actually installed the rubber "spider" peice properly, etc.  I wouldn't worry all that much about the hitch and chains vibrating as long as it isn't bad back at the middle of the unit.  

On the muffler, it does sound like your deflector might be missing, I would try to get one and isnstall it - maybe talk to the TSC guy about swapping the muffler for one off a Honda engine, or otherwise making it a bit quieter.

The suggestion for isolation mounting the engine is also a good one, but it might be worth a bit of experimenting first - get some strips of rubber like tire sidwalls, or a rubber "welcome mat", undo the engine mounting bolts and put the strips between the engine and chassis, then tighten things back down - if that helps, then it might be worth doing the isolation mounts.

It doesn't sound like what you have is a real big problem, sounds to me like you would be better off trying to fix the unit you have rather than trading it in on something more expensive and arguably not as good.

Gooserider


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## Gooserider (Sep 14, 2009)

I would see the suction side filter as a MAJOR design flaw - my earlier comment was made before seeing those photos...  Otherwise it still looks like a good unit, but a suction side filter is IMHO a great way to destroy a pump by causing it to cavitate, not to mention that putting the filter below the oil level like that is likely to make if very messy and difficult to change the filter without dumping your hydraulic fluid...   Incidentally, cavitation can cause a lot of vibration as it eats the pump internals...

I don't know who came up with that design but it is really screwy, as Speeco / Huskee generally knows what they are doing and uses sound design concepts.

Note, this is something that CAN be fixed for a not unreasonable sum of money...    It would need a replacement suction line (or possibly a length of pipe and some fittings) possibly a filter and head (depending on whether the existing one can be re-used as a return side filter) and a new, shorter, return line - if one got the parts from a local hydraulic shop, $100-150, maybe $75-100 on-line...

I really can't think of ANY circumstance where I'd want to see a filter of any sort between the tank and the pump.  Most common filter location is in the return line to the tank, which is low pressure, and quite an effective location on any sort of equipment.  There are some sorts of equipment (not log splitters) that require ultra clean fluid going into some of the valves and such, and for that equipment a pressure side filter in the high pressure line can be effective, though such filters tend to be VERY expensive because of the need to operate under full system pressure.

The other thing that I have recently changed my opinion on, is that you are best off with a manufactured, swaged end, return line (albeit a low pressure rating (~200psi minimum) is all that's needed) rather than a length of plain hose between hose barbs and held on w/ hose clamps...  I can't tell from the pictures which you have on that unit...

Gooserider


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## RowCropRenegade (Sep 14, 2009)

I'll 2nd what gooserider said about the oil filter being on the suction side.

It's not critical but it's generally on the return side due to lower pressure return.  

Filters and their mounts are notorious for leaking when they get old.  Putting them on the high pressure side just exacerbates it.

My sprayer has two filters, one on supply, one on return.  I've had nothing but trouble on the supply side with leaks.  You have to have it though.  Pushing 10,000 psi to wheel motors requires super clean oil.


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## Gooserider (Sep 14, 2009)

Oh and looking at the photos, you are definitely missing the diverter off the muffler - the muffler on my Subaru-Robin engine, and the Honda engines I've seen looks IDENTICAL, except for having the diverter that goes over the outlet, and makes the exhaust gasses do a 90* bend...  If you search way back to the threads I wrote up on my splitter you can probably find a picture of it.  I'm willing to bet that putting that part on would cut your noise considerably, both by adding another bend to the exhaust path, and by shooting the exhaust gasses and noise off in a less annoying direction.

Gooserider


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## LLigetfa (Sep 14, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> The other thing that I have recently changed my opinion on, is that you are best off with a manufactured, swaged end, return line (albeit a low pressure rating (~200psi minimum) is all that's needed) rather than a length of plain hose between hose barbs and held on w/ hose clamps...  I can't tell from the pictures which you have on that unit...


The return line has regular barbs and gear clamps but I don't see that as being bad.  It doesn't look like it would take much to move the filter to the return line but ja, removing it will drain some of the oil.  One could block the wheels higher and tip the reservoir so the the filter is higher to minimize the amount lost.

I'd be worried about cavitation in sub-zero weather when the oil is thicker.  I've yet to run my splitter in the Winter.


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## Gooserider (Sep 14, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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I don't like the hose barbs and clamps - unless perhaps they are seriously glued in place with permatex along with the clamps...  I recently had a line blow off, and besides making a major mess (and we don't want to think about the environment..) it dumped 2/3 of my oil in the time it took me to get to the engine kill switch, and I was NOT moving slowly...  Figuring the average splitter holds about 5 gallons of fluid, a 16 gpm pump is going to have your system dumped and be running the pump dry in 20 seconds or less...  I replaced that line w/ a manufactured one before I pulled the starter cord again.....

In terms of cavitation - I suspect it would be a problem even in hot weather.  A hydraulic pump should ideally have a net positive suction head.  Zero or as close to it as can be managed is tolerable, but not great.  This is why the designers generally work very hard to get the pump below the tank's oil line, and use a big, and short, hose to feed the pump - by putting the filter on the suction line, you have greatly increased the "effective length" of the suction line - I woud be willing to bet the "equivalent pipe length" on that filter head would be on the order of 50 FEET or so, with any dirt in the filter making it even worse.  The height difference between the tank and the pump looks to be 3-4" or about 1/8" of a pound NPSH - Assuming a 1" diameter intake line, according to the numbers I've found over on the Engineering tool box, SAE 10 oil has a 45psi pressure drop / 100 feet of schedule 40 steel pipe at 10gpm or 67psi at 15gpm - divide that in half, and you are still pulling a pretty hard vacuum between the filter and the pump inlet...  Note how the photos looks like they are using a pretty substantially reinforced suction line....

Gooserider


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## iceman (Sep 14, 2009)

wow .... that tech talk has my head spinning.....
ok i called speeco and got a manual emailed to me...
i also spoke with a tech who is now going to talk to an engineer about what it is doing (vibrating) when the ram is retracted
i asked why the filter is on the supply side and he said its been that way for 20 years, its just the way they designed it..  
i asked about the muffler and he told me that i could try to find a divertor but that unit was designed for the operator to be on the other side  ....to keep the operator away from the engine
He also told me me the hyd tank is as big as the 28/35 ton there engines are a bit bigger with a bit bigger pumps .... 
this unit is just making it over here, they have been selling them in other parts of the country with great success
he did say to wait to take it back until he called it may be something they can fix, but the unit is solid and they will stand behind it 
he did say that they had the speeco engine made by loncin to save money and to reflect that in the price....  he says its a cross between a briggs and honda i.e. it has the low oil shutoff protector, it is a horizontal engine (for what its worth)


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## iceman (Sep 16, 2009)

######update#######
talked to speeco and we discovered its the engine.... when the engine is full throttle it is when it starts the uncontrollable vibrating...
the tech said it was because the engine has so much TORQUE!  he claims it has more torque than the honda on the 28 ton! ....... he also stated that the unit was built to disperse all that vibration through the beam??  i asked about putting some type of rubber stops or something and he claimed when building the splitters they tried but the vibrations with friction would eat up any type of rubber thus causing damage to the unit itself...  with things possibly falling out of alignement?......
The person I spoke to was very kind, but i am starting question some of those answers...  but i dunno if the answers make sense...  according to him if the engine didnt have so much torque it would not vibrate as much ....  and thats the reason that the 22 and 28 dont get AS much vibration ..... when the splitter is only running 3/4 or 1/2 there is little to no vibration .....   any thoughts???
I also called another store to see if they had a 25 ton and the guy said no... why do you want that one the engine on it isnt as good as the one on the 22 ton!


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## smokinj (Sep 16, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> ######update#######
> talked to speeco and we discovered its the engine.... when the engine is full throttle it is when it starts the uncontrollable vibrating...
> the tech said it was because the engine has so much TORQUE!  he claims it has more torque than the honda on the 28 ton! ....... he also stated that the unit was built to disperse all that vibration through the beam??  i asked about putting some type of rubber stops or something and he claimed when building the splitters they tried but the vibrations with friction would eat up any type of rubber thus causing damage to the unit itself...  with things possibly falling out of alignement?......
> The person I spoke to was very kind, but i am starting question some of those answers...  but i dunno if the answers make sense...  according to him if the engine didnt have so much torque it would not vibrate as much ....  and thats the reason that the 22 and 28 dont get AS much vibration ..... when the splitter is only running 3/4 or 1/2 there is little to no vibration .....   any thoughts???
> I also called another store to see if they had a 25 ton and the guy said no... why do you want that one the engine on it isnt as good as the one on the 22 ton!



anyway you can do a video of it running? and post it.


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## Gooserider (Sep 16, 2009)

That explanation sounds a bit hokey to me, but I'm not an engineer...  However vibration is not directly caused by torque, though it can contribute.  

You certainly don't want any kind of rubber mounts between the engine and the pump, as those two parts need to be held in close alignment - but the pump mounting bracket does that.  OTOH, there isn't any critical alignment issues between the motor / pump assembly and the rest of the unit, as that is all rubber hoses - thus I don't see any legitimate reason why it wouldn't be possible to rubber mount, or otherwise vibration isolate the engine.

If I were wanting to experiment, I'd probably get a hole saw and a tire then make some nice rubber donuts to put in between the engine and the chassis, substituting longer engine mount bolts as needed, possibly using additional rubber donuts and large washers above and below as needed...  This has the advantage of being low cost, and reversible - if I liked the results I might be tempted to really void the warranty and get some of the manufactured rubber mounts to put in instead, but I'd want to be sure it did what I wanted before making any irreversible changes.

Gooserider


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## smokinj (Sep 16, 2009)

hocky puck would hold up if its not to thick


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## Stevebass4 (Sep 16, 2009)

why run it at full throttle anyway?  i always run mine at 1/2 - does it make a difference except for speed?  

btw i do all my spiting by myself so even at 1/2 throttle it's fast enough


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## iceman (Sep 16, 2009)

i will try to get some video....
goose ....  i was thinking something similiar to what you said.. however the tech called back and said he would find a service center.....  and to take it there and they will go through it and replace the engine if need be ...  but they wanna see what/where something went wrong because its a new engine on their machine.
the manager in tsc offered me the 28 ton for 1350 but after reading what goose said in another thread about the pressure gauge and needing only 20 tons, i dont want to spend the extra 300 for nothing


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## iceman (Sep 17, 2009)

Stevebass4 said:
			
		

> why run it at full throttle anyway?  i always run mine at 1/2 - does it make a difference except for speed?
> 
> btw i do all my spiting by myself so even at 1/2 throttle it's fast enough



not sure if it would or not....  i just wanna make sure my new toy is ok
with all the splitters i have rented, used, borrowed this one is the loudest,and the vibrating exceeds the others....  but if it counts this is also the smallest ...  i have used cub cadet (from depot) mtd (from depot)  iron oak (rental) and some other one tht was a rental...  2 had briggs and 3 had hondas...  they werent quite, but they werent this loud either and they def didnt vibrate like this .....  and who knows it could just be me!  i just dont want "other" things to start going wrong next year and someone tells me that this wasnt right from the start


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## Stevebass4 (Sep 17, 2009)

certainly understand your concern - it's new and it should be perfect 

just wondering about the full throttle when splitting


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## iceman (Sep 17, 2009)

Stevebass4 said:
			
		

> certainly understand your concern - it's new and it should be perfect
> 
> just wondering about the full throttle when splitting



hopefully i wont have to go full....   i just thought it was funny going from no vibration at half to so much at full... and if its just me at least i will know
but i a actually starting to like it because it is so light and easy to move around! compared to others


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## brad068 (Sep 17, 2009)

"to much torque" I got to laugh! What, is it an old Rumply oil pull!? 

First thing I would do if that was at my shop is by sound I can tell you if the engine is exceeding the recommended rpms. Maybe the governor isn't working or is not set correctly. Most small engines are designed at full throttle to run from 3200 to 3600 rpm and when they exceed this they will vibrate.
You can isolate the engine by loosening the love joy coupling and slide it apart. run the engine and see if the vibration is still there.

The lct engines that I've had a chance to work on do seem to be a good engine. Even the Harbor freight ones seem good. They are both china built but the HF ones look as if they are exact copies of hondas. I have had good luck with both models.


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## kevin j (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't want to sound critical or know it all, but I am an engineer for 40 years and I think you are getting major bs from the rep. maybe not willful, just ignorance or he is reading the script. Or, the CSR may be used to dealing with people who never operate power equipment and think anything that makes more noise or vibration than their refridgerator is a problem. He may not realize that you seem to be pretty mechanically minded and if you think there is an issue it may be more serous than he envisions. Just trying to give him the benefit of doubt anyway.

-Is the pump mounted with a rigid ball housing direct to the motor? then 'too much torque' is bs, as the only torque reaction is through the rigid bellhousing between the two. The unit should then float in space with NO reaction from too much torque.

-Rigid mounting anchors the engine more solidly, but what he is describing on why they don't use AV mounts is also bs I think. Mainly it is not done for cost reasons, because the vibration levels are tolerable in the design without AV. This one apparently is not. So the issue isn't lack of AV, but excessive vibration. 

-single cylinder engines are inherently imbalanced either up and down or front to rear. Balancing the crank or piston just moves it from one plane to the other, unless some sourt of counterbalance weight is added. So are you expecting too much? That you have used other machines tells me not, that your read of too much vibration is accurate. 

-"don't run it full rpm"..... it should perform at its maximum design potential or send it back. I would not buy a new truck only to be told 'don't drive it over 45 mph then it won't vibrate so much.......' I'd want the front end fixed or a new truck.

-My suggestion of the grainger mounts was as an improvement to an already working good design, not intended as a band aid for a mfr screw up. I would not start any rubber mounts or testing until the unit is shown to be oeprating correctly. AV mounts should take out the last 20% of the vibrations, not attempt to take out the first 50% 

I'd get it back to the service center. Then have them isolate the coupling and run the engine alone, but with pump and adaptor still in place. It could be a bent engine crank, bad bell housing that misaligns pump and engine shafts, bent pump shaft, or high rpm as suggested.

You are spending good money, you have a right to a serviceable product. You can't expect a TW6 for $1500, but you should get a good machine. You should not be getting problems right out of the box. problems only get more expensive to fix.

May be a minor problem, but it really bugs me to have a CSR blow off customer concerns so they go off in defeat and keep using the bad product.  so maybe I am overly biased with snap negative judgment here......


kcj


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## Gooserider (Sep 17, 2009)

Stevebass4 said:
			
		

> why run it at full throttle anyway?  i always run mine at 1/2 - does it make a difference except for speed?
> 
> btw i do all my spiting by myself so even at 1/2 throttle it's fast enough



It makes a difference for speed and power...  You don't have to run full throttle, but you should, and expect some level of problems if you don't...

1. The pump will only put out its rated volume if it is spun at the speed that rating was made at - namely full throttle on the standard OPE engine, or about 3600 RPM.  Run slower, the pump will put out less volume and give you longer cycle times - this might not be an issue for you, but it is going to be for someone trying to make serious production.

2. Regardless of how fast the pump is turning, it STILL requires 2hp of engine power for each GPM of output when you get into the low-volume / high pressure mode, where the output shifts to about 1/4 the rated volume, but the pressure goes to the max, ~3,000psi...  If you don't give it this power you will stall on the gnarly rounds that require higher than usual tonnage, or if you hit the end of the cylinder and don't back off the lever fast enough...
However, the engines on a splitter won't make their rated hp unless run at full throttle...  Most rounds it won't make much difference, there are few that will really push the pressure, but the gnarly jobs will stall you out...

Gooserider


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## savageactor7 (Sep 17, 2009)

Ice did you put a wrench on the engine mounts and try to tighten them up? With the stuff they put out today that can happen. 

Also I agree with the others that question the need for high rpm's. We have a 5hp engine on the splitter and it has always run just a little higher than an idle speed. Did you try running the splitter with lower engine rpm's to see if it splits OK? In the greater scheme of things the pump does 90% of the work on a splitter so you really don't need high HP or rpm's.


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## kgreer (Sep 18, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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Good morning,  perhaps I can help shed some light on the situation here.   The 25 ton unit you purchased from TSC is a special, limited build unit.  Only a few of these units were built and sold to TSC.  All of TSC standard models have either a Briggs or Honda motor on them.  The Loncin engine is an engine SpeeCo uses on our 15 ton SpeeCo brand woodsplitter which is sold by some other farm stores who carry our products.  Some vibration on any log splitter engine is normal, however there is always a possibility of some type of engine malfunction.   I would check the bolts on the engine which hold down the gas tank, air filter, and the motor mounts and tighten them all down if any are loose.  Then, run a few cords throught the unit and check for tightness again.  If any have become loose after only a few hours, then there could be an engine problem.  SpeeCo would be happy to have the unit checked for problems if they persist.  If this is necessary, contact the TsC manager and ask where the service center is for that store.

Thanks,
SpeeCo-tech


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## kgreer (Sep 18, 2009)

Speecotech said:
			
		

> iceman said:
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p.s. Also, please feel free to call me here at SpeeCo.  I can be reached @303-279-5544 ext. 147  I will do everything I can to resolve the issue.  If there is a defect/warranty problem, we will take care of it for you.

Thanks again!


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## Stevebass4 (Sep 18, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> It makes a difference for speed and power...  You don't have to run full throttle, but you should, and expect some level of



thanks for the post goose!!


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## iceman (Sep 19, 2009)

update... the speeco tech are really nice ... much kudos to you guys..  the tsc manager is willing to replace it...  but i asked a girl in the store if she could find one and she said they werent getting anymore!  so i called the repair center and those guys will take a look on tues...  at this point i might just take the offer and get the 28 ton.....  i dont really understand this splitter.. (i am not a professional) but the filter is on the hp side and all the huskees are on the low pressure... this was some new design and i got an engine from a smaller splitter? but yet this is supposed to be more powerful than a 22 ton which is more powerful than the splitter my engine came from??(hope you understand that!)  maybe its just me and this small engine is just working very hard to keep up! dunno but just because of the reputation of speeco and the fact they do seem very nice and honest... i am going to try to work this out and stay with huskee or speeco


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## LLigetfa (Sep 19, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> ...but the filter is on the hp side and all the huskees are on the low pressure...


Not quite.  Most splitters have the filter on the return line which is low pressure but your Spee Co made splitter has it on the intake (no pressure) suction side.


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## struggle (Sep 19, 2009)

I have an older Huskee 20 ton model that uses a cylinder set that is much like yours but the pump is mounted below the engine (5.5hp briggs) It rattles like mad if at full throttle and no load on the engine. The main cylinder (ram) has to float somewhat and since the unit pivots for horizontal mode you have a lot of parts that are not machine fitted so it is going to rattle some without a load on it.

I always set mine down on the leg disconnect from my tow vehicle. If you split with it attached to the your hitch you just added one more place for a rattle to come from.  

Not saying you do not have problem but these things are not exactly the most refined machines.  

I have replaced my engine cover twice now from it cracking to which I am assuming is from vibration. The last time I welded it with extra metal on it and it has held.  Splitter is around 5-6 years old maybe even older. I really do not remember exactly when I bought it. Motor burns no oil when on straight 30 weight. I do not baby it at all. I just let run wide open after it is warmed up and it has yet to fail. It seems like it should from the things that rattle but it just keeps splitting cord after cord.

I kind of think you are over thinking this a little, but I could be entirely wrong.

My filter is on the suction side of the pump as well. right off the tank. The filters would blow apart if they were on a pressure side.


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## iceman (Sep 19, 2009)

struggle said:
			
		

> I have an older Huskee 20 ton model that uses a cylinder set that is much like yours but the pump is mounted below the engine (5.5hp briggs) It rattles like mad if at full throttle and no load on the engine. The main cylinder (ram) has to float somewhat and since the unit pivots for horizontal mode you have a lot of parts that are not machine fitted so it is going to rattle some without a load on it.
> 
> I always set mine down on the leg disconnect from my tow vehicle. If you split with it attached to the your hitch you just added one more place for a rattle to come from.
> 
> ...


\


Thanks thats good to know ...  i wathinking maybe its just me but when comparing it to others machines and peoples statements i was/ am unsure.,,,  but i am not a professional


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I would see the suction side filter as a MAJOR design flaw - my earlier comment was made before seeing those photos...  Otherwise it still looks like a good unit, but a suction side filter is IMHO a great way to destroy a pump by causing it to cavitate, not to mention that putting the filter below the oil level like that is likely to make if very messy and difficult to change the filter without dumping your hydraulic fluid...   Incidentally, cavitation can cause a lot of vibration as it eats the pump internals...
> 
> I don't know who came up with that design but it is really screwy, as Speeco / Huskee generally knows what they are doing and uses sound design concepts.
> 
> ...



Gooserider, as always you have some great comments to add to the thread.   In response to your concern about the design,  our splitters that are designed to run with the oil filter on the suction line, do not cavitate.  We designed the filter and filter base to allow enough fluid through so as not to stres the pump or otherwise cavitate the fluid.  If the fluid were cavitating, you would notice a loss of performance as well as excess heat and foam in the tank when you open the fill cap. We recently changed our design on the Huskee models.  On the newer Huskee models, the filter has been moved and the filter base setup and filter have been adjusted accordingly to allow for a diff. pressure and different flow rate.  There is a check vale inside the filter bases which allows fluid to bypass the filter in periods of extremely high flow rate, or rushes of fluid (when the valve returns to the neutral positon).  These units use a different style filter base when attached to the supply side which allows fluid pass with out cavitation.  I hope this clears things up a bit.


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> update... the speeco tech are really nice ... much kudos to you guys..  the tsc manager is willing to replace it...  but i asked a girl in the store if she could find one and she said they werent getting anymore!  so i called the repair center and those guys will take a look on tues...  at this point i might just take the offer and get the 28 ton.....  i dont really understand this splitter.. (i am not a professional) but the filter is on the hp side and all the huskees are on the low pressure... this was some new design and i got an engine from a smaller splitter? but yet this is supposed to be more powerful than a 22 ton which is more powerful than the splitter my engine came from??(hope you understand that!)  maybe its just me and this small engine is just working very hard to keep up! dunno but just because of the reputation of speeco and the fact they do seem very nice and honest... i am going to try to work this out and stay with huskee or speeco



Iceman,  I hope you have already worked things out with your splitter. Again, feel free to call us here at Speeco if you havent and we will help resolve the issue.  In response to your question,  power on a log splitter is determined by the psi out put of the pump and the size of the hydraulic cylinder.   While there is a minimum h.p. requirement for pumps (1/2 horsepower for every galllon per minute of flow). All of our splitter engines meet or exceed those rquirements.   The loncin engine on your unit and the briggs motor on the 22 ton Huskee both are 6.5 h.p. which is adequate for the pump they both use.   You could put a 30 h.p. engine on your splitter and it would not make it any more powerful than the 6.5 h.p. unless you change the pump or cylinder.


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## Gooserider (Sep 21, 2009)

Speecotech said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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I will admit that I'm not an engineer, but when I was looking into making my splitter purchase, and at least briefly considering trying to build my own, I read a great deal on the general principles of Hydraulic design.  Everything I found seemed to say that suction side filtering was a bad idea, that AT BEST was something that could be "gotten away with" but that could easily cause problems...  For one example, see the stuff written by Brendan Casey at Hydraulic Supermarket.com  By doing return side filtering on my splitter, I feel that I have a more reliable system that is less likely to have any problems.  Obviously Huskee appears to get away with suction side filtering, but that does not make me feel that it is a wise design choice.

Gooserider


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

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  There are two schools of thought.  With supply most of the fluid gets filtered before it goes throught the pump, valve, cylinder etc. therefore ensuring that no contaminants get through to those components.    While this is effective, it can also shorten the life of the pump because it does have to work a bit harder.  Also, at times the flow rate is so high that some of the fluid needs to bypass through a check valve which is built in to the filter base.  The check valve opening keeps the fluid from cavitating.  With the filter base on the return side, it doesn't matter so much if the fluid cavitates because it has time to settle down in the reservoir tank and cool off.  The disadvantage is that the fluid passes through the hydraulic components before filtration happens.  If something foreign,  dirt, metal particulates, etc. got in your tank it could potentially damge cylinder seals, pump gears, etc.


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## iceman (Sep 21, 2009)

Speecotech said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
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The 28 and 34 ton the filter has been changed to the return side??? or am i reading this wrong? please excuse me


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

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On the 22, 28, and 35 ton Huskee models it has been changed, yes.


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

Yes, on the 22, 28, and 35 ton units it is.  They have been that way since last fall.


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## m0jumb0 (Sep 21, 2009)

On my Huskee 22 ton purchased last month it's on the return side... I remember noting that when I was looking the unit over thinking it didn't make much sense to filter the fluid after it went through all the stuff you're presumably trying to protect.  Though, after reading this thread I can see the reason why it's done this way.


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## iceman (Sep 21, 2009)

Speecotech said:
			
		

> iceman said:
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ok i am confused now... the newer models huskee has the filter now on the return side?  so does this mean that there is some validity to what goose was saying? (that it is better to have them on the return side) not trying to be an @@$ but if what you described earlier, why would you change over if what you were doing is ok??


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## kgreer (Sep 21, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> Speecotech said:
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Again, there are two schools of thought as to which way is better.    We've been using supply side filtration for the last 30 or so years and there are no problems doing it either way if engineered correctly..   The reason for the change had nothing to do with functionality, but more to do with accesibility of the oil filter.  On our older units if you wanted to change your filter only and not the oil,  you would have to drain the oil to do so.  I will reiterate that there are two schools of thought and Goose has received information from one school of thought and some of his points are valid.  Again, it all has to do with how you design/engineer the machine and whether it is built correctly.  We have also changed to a horizontal shaft motor with a sidemount pump.  In this alternate design, both pump and filter are higher up and more protected from anything the splitter might run over while towing.     I hope this clears things up?


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## Gooserider (Sep 21, 2009)

The counter argument that I have heard made on the "filter before the components" concept is that the oil in a splitter, or almost any hydraulic device does an endless loop, thus it all gets filtered at some point, no matter WHERE the filter is...  Thus no matter where you put the filter, there is really only one point in time where "unfiltered" oil goes through the pump, valve and cylinder, and that is the first time you start the machine with newly added oil...  The folks that make and package hydraulic fluid have some fairly stringent standards as to what it's supposed to be filtered to when packaged, so as long as you are using clean transfer equipment, and refrain from pouring sand into the tank along with the oil, the only real source for contamination is the tank itself - one would hope that no matter what sort of filtration is being used, the manufacturer cleans out the tanks after assembly...  (Though I do seem to recall some reports of people finding newspaper in a tank a while back....)  Since in most units the suction line is at least a little way off the bottom, most large heavy contaminants are going to sink below the intake level as well.

On my return side filter system there is a bypass valve as well, but as long as the filter is changed as needed, it should only need to bypass on the ram return stroke, if it bypasses at all.  The filter head is rated for 25gpm, my pump does 16gpm, so it should only bypass if the volume multiplier effect of the return side of the cylinder having a smaller volume than the extend side that it's pushing back causes more than 25gpm to go to the tank on the return stroke - I'm not sure as I haven't tried to do the math on it.

If one really wants to be fanatical about making sure all oil gets filtered, but still use return side filtration, I've even seen it suggested that one should put a tee in the return line and add fluid by pumping it into the return line and thus ensure that the added fluid goes through the filter on the way to the tank...  IMHO this isn't a bad idea, but it's a bit overkill, and isn't really practical for the home user since it requires pressurized dispensing equipment. (OTOH, if you are working on a several hundred K$ machine with high tolerance requirements...)

Speecotech and I obviously don't agree on this, but I don't think avoiding the potential for problems from having unfiltered oil make one pass through the system justifies the added strain on the pump and risk of cavitation caused by suction side filtration.  I also like the fact that it's easier to do a filter change on a return side system without draining the oil.

I'm glad to note that it sounds like Speeco is changing to return side filtration, as well as going to a horizontal shaft engine / pump configuration, IMHO that is a significant improvement.

Gooserider


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## m0jumb0 (Sep 21, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> [...]
> 
> I'm glad to note that it sounds like Speeco is changing to return side filtration, as well as going to a horizontal shaft engine / pump configuration, IMHO that is a significant improvement.
> 
> Gooserider



Yeah, the vertical shaft engine is really my only quibble with my 22 ton unit.  I couldn't justify the added cost of the 28 ton tnough since 22 tons is enough to split anything pretty much, and the 28 has a bit longer of a cycle time.  My workflow depends on me bringing wood to the splitter rather than dragging it through the woods though, so it's not too much of a worry.  Though an aftermarket skid plate would be nice just in case


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## brad068 (Sep 21, 2009)

Guys I got to put in my two cents.

I have worked on a number of hyd systems and a return is a safer bet. On the systems I did, There is a suction strainer that is inside the tank usually 100 mesh so the pump did receive some filtering, weld beeds, slag, etc. As far as amount going through the filter, I think the amount will be the same whether under power or not. You can't compress fluid only pump it at a little slower volume due to decreased rpms under load. What doesn't go to the cyl under max load goes through the relief and everything goes back to the tank. When the cyl. is pushing one way the fluid on the other side of the piston(double acting) exits through the valve and back to the tank. And actually on wood splitters with two stage pumps, the most fluid is when the valve is in the neutral position and when the cylinder is cycling not under load. Under load the second stage is activated decreasing the volume by 3/4. EX. 16 gpm becomes 4 gpm under load set by the unloader valve. I want to say 650psi? I think.

As far as changing the filter on the return or suction, all you need is a vacuum cleaner. Stick the suction hose in/on the fill port while you remove the filter. Works great for me.


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## bsa0021 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm with Gooserider on this. If I'm spending 1K on a splitter I want the "safer design". Maybe that's why these older design units are on sale at TSC now. Big question is when can you purchase the new design?


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## Gooserider (Sep 22, 2009)

Garnification said:
			
		

> Guys I got to put in my two cents.
> 
> I have worked on a number of hyd systems and a return is a safer bet. On the systems I did, There is a suction strainer that is inside the tank usually 100 mesh so the pump did receive some filtering, weld beeds, slag, etc. As far as amount going through the filter, I think the amount will be the same whether under power or not. You can't compress fluid only pump it at a little slower volume due to decreased rpms under load. What doesn't go to the cyl under max load goes through the relief and everything goes back to the tank. When the cyl. is pushing one way the fluid on the other side of the piston(double acting) exits through the valve and back to the tank. And actually on wood splitters with two stage pumps, the most fluid is when the valve is in the neutral position and when the cylinder is cycling not under load. Under load the second stage is activated decreasing the volume by 3/4. EX. 16 gpm becomes 4 gpm under load set by the unloader valve. I want to say 650psi? I think.
> 
> As far as changing the filter on the return or suction, all you need is a vacuum cleaner. Stick the suction hose in/on the fill port while you remove the filter. Works great for me.



Almost right G, except that you forget about the fact that the two sides of a splitter type D/A cylinder have different volumes because one side has the piston rod sticking out of it, and the other side doesn't.  Thus the side that extends the piston has a volume equal to the piston area times the stroke length, while the retract side has a volume equal to (the piston area MINUS the Rod area) times the stroke length...  If you divide the total volume by the stroke length you can come up with a number on each side for how much volume it takes for an inch of piston travel, or how much volume of fluid an inch of piston travel will move...

How does this affect the flow in the return line? - Lets make a fantasy splitter that has specs designed to make the math easy, rather than to reflect any actual machines....

Assume we have a pump that always puts out 6gpm (we have easy splitting wood, so it never shifts into the second stage, which I've usually seen described as happenning around 800psi) our magic splitter also has a cylinder that has a piston rod that takes exactly half the area of the piston, so the retract side is 1/2 the volume of the extend side, and which takes 1 quart of fluid per inch of travel when extending, and has a 24" stroke

There are three possible states for the valve - extend, neutral, retract.

In neutral, the fluid goes straight through the valve so you have 6gpm coming out of the pump and returning to the tank.

In extend, you have 6gpm going into the extend side of the cylinder, or 1 quart every 2.5 seconds.  Each quart pushes the piston out 1".  This movement of the piston forces the fluid out of the retract side and back to the tank, but since the retract side has only half the volume, 1" of travel only pushes out 1 PINT of fluid, so as the pump is pushing 6gpm into the extend side, the retract side is only sending 3gpm back to the tank....

In retract, the situation reverses - 1 quart of fluid still comes out of the pump every 2.5 seconds, but it pushes the piston back 2" because the retract side has a smaller volume - but 2" of travel pushes 2 quarts out of the extend side back to the tank - or 12gpm, which is twice the rated pump volume....

It is a bit of a challenge to wrap ones head around, but that's the way hydraulic systems work...  One can calculate a ratio between the volumes of the different sides of a cylinder, and the volume of fluid returning to the tank will be that much less than the pump rating on the extend stroke, and that much greater on the retract stroke.

Gooserider


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## brad068 (Sep 22, 2009)

I'll be damned, I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Thanks Goose!


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## Gooserider (Sep 22, 2009)

Garnification said:
			
		

> I'll be damned, I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Thanks Goose!



No problem at all...  I find that often trying to explain stuff to others helps me understand it better...

Gooserider


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## kgreer (Sep 22, 2009)

bsa0021 said:
			
		

> I'm with Gooserider on this. If I'm spending 1K on a splitter I want the "safer design". Maybe that's why these older design units are on sale at TSC now. Big question is when can you purchase the new design?




The new design has been in production since last fall.   If a particular TSC store has a unit on sale it is because either they are having a sale or it is older stock they need to sell to make room for new splitters.  There is nothing unsafe about either design.  They have been in production for many years.


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## iceman (Sep 22, 2009)

I am def scratching my head... as usual i am learning more and more each day...... but i am starting to feel like i got an "old car with a new engine"  that would explain why the log splitter was the same price as a 22ton with a vertical engine.... basically this was leftover material from when the design was changed, the put on a new "clone" engine and they can puch these out at a lower price and a consumer like me thought he got a great deal/steal on a Speeco log splitter... oh well smart business/advertising ...  
Thank god for this site
Not saying the design works or doesnt work but i think its obvious huskee/speeco started going in a new design direction and this must've been getting rid of the old frame/tank design..-
ahhhhhh back to the drawing table


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## Gooserider (Sep 22, 2009)

Note that I haven't heard anything to say that the "China clone" engines are significantly worse than the other name brand engines - and any shortcomings in quality can be made up for by the lower cost.  Aside from the filter location, which is a cadaverous horse that is already well beaten, I haven't seen or heard anything specific that would make me think you had a "bad" splitter - hopefully they can figure out the vibration you are getting and fix whatever is causing it, and If so, seems like a good unit to me.

Gooserider


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## iceman (Sep 22, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Note that I haven't heard anything to say that the "China clone" engines are significantly worse than the other name brand engines - and any shortcomings in quality can be made up for by the lower cost.  Aside from the filter location, which is a cadaverous horse that is already well beaten, I haven't seen or heard anything specific that would make me think you had a "bad" splitter - hopefully they can figure out the vibration you are getting and fix whatever is causing it, and If so, seems like a good unit to me.
> 
> Gooserider



thanks goose i wasnt trying to be mean about it, i just think i figured out "how" and "why" it was 999 coming with speeco name on it next to a huskee 22 ton...
seeing the name speeco made me think  "it must be a mistake!"  for a 25TON that appeared to almost be identical to the 28 (except color, size of the beam and honda engine) with a 4.5 inch cylinder, same size resivoir etc 
but then finding out more info here.... well ya know i see the writing in between the lines now...  i appreciate it and i am very glad to have people chime in because i have a better idea of what to look for now!

on another note it seems that timberwolf doesnt even have a filter?!?!


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## Gooserider (Sep 23, 2009)

Don't know about the TW splitters, never really looked that closely at them, but I can certainly say that if I bought a splitter and it didn't come with a filter, that lack would be remedied immediately, with a return side filter - note that this is a pretty low cost item, and it is an easy install, so there is no reason I know of not to put one on.

Gooserider


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## glacialhills (Sep 25, 2009)

There is one more thing the new Husky design  filter location improves on over the old design besides the change in filter location and ease of filter change. The old design has the hose coming directly off  a barb on the top of the tank and the new design comes off the side of the tank with some pipe fittings before the new filter location. With the hose off the top of the tank it is right in line for splits falling off the back(you can hold the front split) and crushing the hose and barb. So the new design solved three weaknesses of the old design...
1. Ease of changing filter without draining tank...
2. Better filter location for less valve/pump wear and less cavitation...
3. Side of tank hose coupling takes away a lot of risk of a big split smashing the hose or coupling. 

Just wish and ask that Speeco would supply a log catcher to those of us with the old, perfectly acceptable design so as to mitigate 1 of the 3 design flaws. Maybe as a goodwill gesture to those of us that have supported their great company.At the very least design one to retrofit the 22ton husky, As I was told there is no factory or after market  log catcher that fits the husky 22ton to protect the bad hose location without user modification/welding it directly on to the I beam.


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## iceman (Sep 26, 2009)

well went by tsc and today is demo day... the manager was out using a 28 ton..  he sees me and calls me over to show me the demo...  he says "is your engine as quiet as this?"    my answer "no"  so then we check the vibrating ... this machine has little to none..  when the ram extended it was quiet... now he was using it in the vertical position...  so he says to me that the 22s are good for the money but the 28 and 34 are just hands down better machines....  so i go home and ask the wife"is this one a lot louder than the other one?"  she says yes...  i stand mine up in vertical...  in my yard figuring that would eat the vibrations... negative!...   my wife says "the other one ran so much smoother than this one!"

*****  i looked at the return line and there the filter was.... but i found it strange that the return line and suction line were only about 6 inches apart AND at the same height???  which was near the top of the tank .. maybe an inch from the top... arent most suction lines more towards the bottom of the tank?  like 2 or 3 inches from the bottom????

AND  one other thing....,   to all those who may have thought speeco was "made in the usa people"  there is a big sticker on the 28 and 34 ton that say "Assembled in the USA"  WHICH leads me to think that not all parts are made in the USA.....  looks like everything is some how coming from abroad...


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## rdust (Sep 27, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> AND  one other thing....,   to all those who may have thought speeco was "made in the usa people"  there is a big sticker on the 28 and 34 ton that say "Assembled in the USA"  WHICH leads me to think that not all parts are made in the USA.....  l*ooks like everything is some how coming from abroad...*



Sorry to see you're not happy with the splitter, they have offered to exchange it or upgrade you, right?  

Unfortunately consumers want cheap and this is what companies have to do to give it to us.


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## iceman (Sep 27, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




yes they did offer exchange upgrade...?????
and yes consumers want cheap ... don't you?...   somewhere in this thread or forum it was brought up that speeco was made in the usa (another reason to buy from them)
I am just pointing out that I think some of the parts come from abroad....
and many companies don't go abraod because we want cheap( although some do) they go abroad so THEY can go cheap and make more money!


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## Gooserider (Sep 27, 2009)

We live in a global economy - stuff comes from all over the world, and IMHO worrying about it makes no more sense than a person in Maine not wanting to buy oranges because they are imported from Florida...

Years back when Kawasaki built their first motorcycle assembly plant in the US, one of the bike magazines did the experiment of taking apart one of the brand new "Made in the USA" police model Kawasakis, and a police model Harley-Davidson, and sorting the parts by country of origin...  Guess what - there were MORE "made in USA" parts on the Kawasaki...

There is in economics the entire concept of "comparative advantage" which underlies the idea of specialization, and that even if two parties can both do the same things, they will both make out better if each does the thing he does best and trade their surpluses rather than trying to do it themselves...  Going back to my first sentence, yes, if one worked at it hard enough, you could grow oranges in Maine and potatoes in Florida, but it works best if each state does what it does best and trades...

Note that when a product gets made overseas, the ONLY jobs that get moved are the ones in the factory that makes the product - The rest of the chain stays basically the same - the product gets distributed, sold in stores, and people still buy stuff to service and maintain it.

The money that goes overseas to buy those products may get swapped around a bit over there, but it can only really be redeemed by coming back and buying something FROM US - outside the US, other than as a promise that it can be traded to the US for something, our money is nothing more than rather ugly green wastepaper...  (won't get into what Obama is turning it into inside the US....)

When the American consumer looks for cheap, the money he saves doesn't just vanish either - instead it is used to purchase yet more goods and services of other sorts, which is likely to create more jobs in other industries...

The reason we are hurting so badly right now is largely that we have given away our comparative advantage as manufacturers of goods to others that can do the same thing at an acceptable level of quality for less money, but have not found enough good alternatives that place us at a comparitive advantage in other fields...

Sorry for the ashcan grade rant, but I really wish more folks would do some economics 101 level studying...

Gooserider


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## kevin j (Sep 28, 2009)

goose
I agree with your description, except.....

-It is not just the assembly jobs that go offshore. Each manufacturing job (or most other jobs also) also feeds a chain of related activity: other people make or sell the conveyors, floor mops, tool & dies, pop machines, boxes, pencils, accounting or timekeeping. The workers income supports restaurants, little league games, local grocery stores, etc. etc. Not one for one of course, but the chain effects many additional jobs.


-The money eventually should cycle back to the issuing country, if not for excessive debt. If the balance of payments was 0, Florida would buy the same amount of potatoes + firewood +.... from Maine as Maine bought oranges + Disneyworld + .... from Florida. Both economies become more efficient and both have higher standards of living. So the ideal is NOT protectionism to have a closed protected economy going in a circle, but a balanced one going in all directions equally. (I am not even going to touch the theory of increasing debt vs. growth in GDP. Trying to keep it simple here.)

     The breakdown comes when the balance of payments has a large deficit. If Maine buys oranges and goes to Disneyworld, but sells only a few potatoes in return, eventually there is either loss of resources, no more savings account, or debt accumulates that has to be covered somehow by paying forever into the future.

   As an example, envision an isolated family household: One person kills and grows the food, another cooks it, someone mows the lawn, someone weaves and makes the clothing, someone else does the dishes. If they 'paid ' each other to do these jobs (with a finite number of dollars, sea shells, bottle caps or acorns), the cycle can still continue forever. (If one promises to pay another in the future with sea shells yet to be earned, inflation can start unless productivity also increases by that debt, but that is another topic. Assume it is a fixed amount of sea shells.)As  you have described, it could be more efficient if someone got a job in town (outside the circle of the local economy) and sold the excess garden stuff and bought clothes made in a specialized factory. As long as the sales equal the purchases, life is better for both economies. 

      The unsustainable part comes when the family goes to town to buy clothes, and buy food, but never sells anything, (or at least buys more than sells). Life style and standard grows, life is way better, but in the background the charge accounts at the grocer and shoe store grow bigger and bigger. At some point, the  trading partner says no more credit, no more charging, no more groceries until you either pay the bill, or pay for todays purchases. The borrower either agrees to higher interest, refinances, makes more promises, or the lender takes title to the land in return for paying off the debt.


   That is the biggest danger I see to our economy. We used to buy cheap labor content stuff and sell high tech stuff. Now we buy buy buy and don't sell much. So the debt builds up. To the credit of the chinese, japanese, indians, etc, they are better at long term planning. We are buying electronics, toys, plastic thingies, disposable or consumable items. They are buying up production equipment, technology, knowledge, mines, sources of raw materials, government bills, and long term assets as well as consumable items. Then, by using that knowledge to build their own economy to make their own consumable stuff, they are in a better position in the future.  Our company has sold maybe $50 million of railroad equipment overseas in the last couple years. Maybe half of that is classic buy and trade back and forth. Half is transfer of technology and process and design and knowledge that will only go one way. 


      Answers? Way above my head. But I know at 60 I have different goals than back at 25.  Personally I have been trying to get off the materialism addiction, consumption and china sourcing in particular. Reducing my consumption, not being a slave to possessions, paying more for usa made or quality made, buying quality stuff once, buying older quality used stuff, and not having to have as much certainly is a freeing experience. Working at getting the debt down on mortgages. No consumer charge card or car debt.  

       I need at least some semblance of on topic here: A good book, glass of wine, good wife, sitting by the woodstove with wood I have sawed and split refocuses life's priorities to what is necessary (heat in MN = need) vs what is just wants.

Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled programming.......

kcj


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

well here is the final
i was all set to keep the 25 ton.... but tsc had demo days this past weekend... the manager called me and made an offer i couldnt resist for the 28 ton! (he was using it for the weekend as a demo)   So I am very happy with this new toy.. it is much quieter no vibrating... and the manger did look at mine and say something didnt seem right....  then he started the 28 and and was like "yeah something is different"  then for kicks we started a 22 ton ... not as loud as the 25 but not as quiet as the honda and no excessive vibrating ....  so he said something was def wrong with mine, as he has one to and it isnt like this .. he thinks something in the engine needs to be replaced/ fixed and it will prolly be alright... he thanked me for being patient and sent me on my way!


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 1, 2009)

Sounds like all worked out well for you and you got a nice upgrade.


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## m0jumb0 (Oct 1, 2009)

glad to hear you got it resolved.  good on tsc for keeping customer satisfaction in mind


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## savageactor7 (Oct 1, 2009)

Good for you ice...now you can start making hay. Always made sense to me that any demo model would be give extra attention on set ups etc. Happy splitting.


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## Hurricane (Oct 2, 2009)

Proves TSC is a good company. 

Glad everyone is happy, now get splitting


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

tsc  was good to me as well as speeco  i am happy and now i can save my back!


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