# Harman Warranty  Sucks - UPDATE - Now I am MAD!



## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

I need my Feeder Weldment replaced and the dealer ask do you have it out yet :ahhh: 

Next they told me they only cover $55 dollars for the service and could recommend places that could do it. I thought they were suppose to have the best warranty but what good is it if I have to fork out money for 4 to 6 hrs of labor charges. I don't have the money to pay for a service guy so I guess I will be doing this myself. If you are looking at Harman's buyer beware if you need service plan on spending some money for the service!


*12/12/09*
*Can I get some help from a couple of Harman Techs?
*
I would like if you can write a letter and send to me in a email what the time to do the replacement of the Feeder Weldement would be on average and why you would not bring back the stove in parts and assemble when you get to the customers site. I have the letter written up for Consumer Protection Agency and would like to attach it to the letter to help out with my case. I already have the case number so I have already started the process they are just waiting to receive the information to proceed the investigation.

Please PM me and I will give you my email to send to. 


*12/8/09 Update*
OK, just got off the phone with the company repairing my stove, they want $1140 for the repair! :bug: 
I told them that was unreasonable and if I new that they were going to charge that I would not have let them take the stove. They are charging me 5.5 hours for the repair and 4 hours to pick up and deliver the stove at $120 hr. He was going to charge $175 hr and I almost had a heart attact, after I told him that when we last spoke he said it was $120 hr for on site but he was going to see about the shop rate to make it less. They are charging 4 hours at $120 to pickup and deliver the stove. 2 hours to pick up, I had the stove out and all they did was load it up on a truck and two guys did it while going to another job, he said he needed 4 guys to offload it. So I am getting charged $480 to pick up and deliver the stove, Not right at all! 

I put in a call to the dealer and the person handling the issue is out today, waiting to hear what they are going to do.

*Buyer beware of Harman! *

10-27-09
*UPDATE:* the area Rep called and said they are paying $450 for the repair! :cheese: 
I am now waiting on a call from the dealer to schedule the service call. I thought I was going to be stuck with a defective stove and 4 tons of pellets this winter. 


10-23-09
*Update response from Harman:*


Thank you for your inquiry.

The written warranty has limitations and may not cover what you are being
charged for. You may review the written warranty in the installation and
operation manual. Our dealers are independently owned and operated, having
their own policies for their service department. We suggest contacting the
dealer to get a detailed account of what the charge is for and if it’s
refundable if the service call qualifies for warranty.

If you are in need of further assistance you can find a local dealer by
clicking on the link below.

*Update 11/12/09:*
Stove is being picked up tomorrow to be repaired.


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## oldgoalie (Oct 22, 2009)

I'd think it's more with your dealer than with Harman.   Any other Harman dealers in your area you can check with?  If not, I'd give Harman a call.


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## thewoodlands (Oct 22, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> I need my Feeder Weldment replaced and the dealer ask do you have it out yet :ahhh:
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> Next they told me they only cover $55 dollars for the service and could recommend places that could do it. I thought they were suppose to have the best warranty but what good is it if I have to fork out money for 2 or 3 hrs of labor charges.  I don't have the money to pay for a service guy so I guess I will be doing this myself. If you are looking at Harman's buyer beware if you need service plan on spending some money for the service!



How old is your Harman?

From there site.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?f=XXVPSTV&nav=warranty


Zap


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## krooser (Oct 22, 2009)

zapny said:
			
		

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Great advice... sure sound like they would replace it and R&R it under warranty.

Good dealers, any brand, are hard to find.


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## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

zapny said:
			
		

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Under 2 yrs, warranty was the 6 yr - 3 yr Harman Gold warranty before it changed.


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## Delta-T (Oct 22, 2009)

What is wrong with the weldment that it needs replacing?? If its inside the Warrantee period, that dealer ( I assume the dealer the stove was purchased from) should handle that (regardless of the lack of hourly compensation they receive for warrantee work). If he doesn't...he's a fool, and a joker.


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## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

Delta-T said:
			
		

> What is wrong with the weldment that it needs replacing?? If its inside the Warrantee period, that dealer ( I assume the dealer the stove was purchased from) should handle that (regardless of the lack of hourly compensation they receive for warrantee work). If he doesn't...he's a fool, and a joker.



Crack in the auger tube, Dealer no longer a Harman dealer, Harman took it away from them. I am dealing with another Harman dealer that does not have service techs.


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## wil lanfear (Oct 22, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

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 Whether he has service techs or not is not the issue. The issue is, the stove was purchased from a dealer no longer in business. I don't agree with this thought, really doesn't make sense but I know this happens. Its like buying a new vechicle somewhere on the east coast, driving it to the west coast, needing warranty service and the dealer telling you that you need to take it back to where you purchased it for warranty coverage. Here is a number if you choose to complain.



Harman Stove Company
1500 Armstrong Valley Rd 
Halifax, PA 17032 

(717) 896-8802


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## Delta-T (Oct 22, 2009)

hmmm, that is a dilemma. Harman WILL reemburse the dealers for more than the single hour of work for somrthing like that, the dealer just needs to touch base with Harman. If they have no technician on staff that makes things difficult. Ask if your new dealer can put you in touch with an area rep for Harman(mind you, they are not obligated to do so, but its something they might be able to do for you). Replacing the weldment is not the easiest, or cleanest thing to do, I certainly wouldn't try to do it in your house. We (the dealer I work for) would remove the stove and do the work in our shop, run the stove for a few hours and return it (usually takes a good couple of hours to do it right, turnaround of a few days usually). If you get nowhere with your local dealer, PM me your contact info and I'll see if there's anything I can do for you. Good Luck


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## webbie (Oct 22, 2009)

If that is the best warranty in the business, I'd hate to ponder the worst!
Dealers do come and go, and some problems are always likely, but it is up to the Harman people to make your stove right. If you have problems, the best bet is to contact the field rep for Harman for your area - they are a good interface between the factory, the dealer and you.


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## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

Delta-T said:
			
		

> hmmm, that is a dilemma. Harman WILL reemburse the dealers for more than the single hour of work for somrthing like that, the dealer just needs to touch base with Harman. If they have no technician on staff that makes things difficult. Ask if your new dealer can put you in touch with an area rep for Harman(mind you, they are not obligated to do so, but its something they might be able to do for you). Replacing the weldment is not the easiest, or cleanest thing to do, I certainly wouldn't try to do it in your house. We (the dealer I work for) would remove the stove and do the work in our shop, run the stove for a few hours and return it (usually takes a good couple of hours to do it right, turnaround of a few days usually). If you get nowhere with your local dealer, PM me your contact info and I'll see if there's anything I can do for you. Good Luck



There is a dealer that is 48 miles away that has technicians but not sure if they would do the work, I sent in email to Harman and will try the Regional Rep to see if he can help.


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## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

Been calling around to different Harman dealers, have one that is 18 miles away suppose to call me back and they said they service Harman. I hope they will work with me, they did not get into the warranty details and said they would go over it with me when the service rep calls back.

Edit:
Same thing these guys don't have service techs they contract out. The service place said they would help if they could but they are to far away and I am outside their service area.


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 22, 2009)

Best of luck.  But I agree it is not Harman at fault but the dealer.  Right now dealers are slammed with repairs of all kinds.  If the dealer does not have the parts it might take weeks to get them.  I just did a total rebuild of a 5 yr old PC-45.  I am still waiting on parts.  I was lucky that I got some of the parts from another dealer.

Eric


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## swalz (Oct 22, 2009)

kinsman stoves said:
			
		

> Best of luck.  But I agree it is not Harman at fault but the dealer.  Right now dealers are slammed with repairs of all kinds.  If the dealer does not have the parts it might take weeks to get them.  I just did a total rebuild of a 5 yr old PC-45.  I am still waiting on parts.  I was lucky that I got some of the parts from another dealer.
> 
> Eric



If they said it would be fixed but could not get to it right away would be one thing but to be told that I would be responsible for the service call is not right. I paid extra to get a stove that would be covered under warranty and not a do it yourself repair. I am waiting to see what this other dealer says before I start calling Harman directly or the Rep for the region and I should still have his number in the folder at home I hope.


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## swalz (Oct 23, 2009)

Looks like Harman's Warranty may not be worth the paper it is printed on, all my calls have gone unanswered.


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## millhouselives (Oct 23, 2009)

How about call them again and tell them you are going to contact local B. B. B. and refer to this website and let them know that many Harman owner's are watching and waiting to see this resolved for you. If they expect any repeat business and I mean all the Harman Dealers then they need to do the right thing and do it for their customers..that is if they want any future customers. Good Luck in your battle with them.


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## Robby (Oct 23, 2009)

I'M WITH YOU.
 After purchasing 3, yes three units, I found the warranty was cr&p. Called other dealers, I had not purchased from them, call dealer you bought from. Found no way to contact Harman. Bought the parts from outside source, installed myself. On two occasions in 2 years I asked for warranty. Dealer did not refuse, just never showed or sent parts. each time very apologetic and promised action, but alas same result. Called many times, gave up. Learned my lesson. Problem is I think the product is OK, but service stinks.

Robby


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## Fsappo (Oct 23, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

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A Harman dealer without service techs is like a Race Car and no pit crew.  Doesnt add up, unless Harman has lowered it's dealership standards since being bought out by HHT


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## swalz (Oct 23, 2009)

Franks said:
			
		

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The reason I went with Harman was the warranty, should have done a little more research before buying.

Well I won't give up I am that type of person, I start out easy but as time goes on I will start to push more and more and I won't give up until they get tire of hearing from me!

Did the same thing on my car that was totaled, insurance was not going to cover under uninsured motorist but after calling them several times a day and calling and getting hold of someone higher up then the last person they finally covered it.


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## swalz (Oct 23, 2009)

squeak squeak squeak 

Starting to get somewhere just got off the phone with the regional Rep for HHT and he is looking into it.


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## tengger (Oct 23, 2009)

Had a problem with My PF 100 within the first 2 months of owning it 1.5 years ago. You can call Hamon they will tell you that they will not talk to you. After i explained I was getting no where with my dealer and had no heat. they called my dealer. then my dealer called me kissing my ass. this all took about 3 hours granted i did the work myself but was able to get the info need to fix a factory screw up.


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## Maineiac (Oct 23, 2009)

As I mentioned in another thread Harman would not cover a part for me even though it was only two weeks out of warranty. The first three weeks of the warranty were spent in the store I bought it at! So in essence it should have still been under warranty and I did the diagnosis and labor. $108 part would have gone a long way for their reputation.


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## swalz (Oct 23, 2009)

tengger said:
			
		

> Had a problem with My PF 100 within the first 2 months of owning it 1.5 years ago. You can call Hamon they will tell you that they will not talk to you. After i explained I was getting no where with my dealer and had no heat. they called my dealer. then my dealer called me kissing my ass. this all took about 3 hours granted i did the work myself but was able to get the info need to fix a factory screw up.



The problem is the dealer I bought mine from is no longer a Harman dealer and I was told this is not an easy repair and after looking at what I have to do I agree. I just want to get most of the service fee covered not just $55 which will not put a dent in a 3 - 4 hour service charge.


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## Lousyweather (Oct 24, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

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Anytime we've had to do a feeder weldment replacement, we have reomoved the stove from the residence, brought it back to the shop, replaced the weldment, and brought the stove back out to reinstall it. The actual job of doing the work IS invloved, and it IS dirty. I certainly wouldnt want to do it in the customers' home........WAY too messy. The repair involves, with the XXV, completely dissassembling the drive mechanisms, the hopper, etc....not an hours job, closer to 4-6 hours, not including transport of the unit...which in your case would involve driving  roughly 200 miles....This is the height of the season for dealer service and installs. many dealers find they have to prioritize customers due to the fact that the customer bought the stove from them, or distance, complexity of repair, or for a myraid of other reasons.  That being said, Harman WILL reimburse for greater than $55, the dealer only really has to call and confirm it. It is in the best interests of Harman to have your issue fixed, especially when the original dealer is no longer a dealer. Ive seen instances where they arrange service for customers with other stove shops for this reason, or issues where the stove owner just hates their dealer and wont deal with them.  That being said, the "new" dealer is not beholden to service and honor a warrantee from another dealer.

Good luck!


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

Well I am not happy with the response I received from Harman, I suggest anyone looking at buying a Harman consider the support they give you before you buy!


form Harman:

Thank you for your inquiry.

The written warranty has limitations and may not cover what you are being
charged for. You may review the written warranty in the installation and
operation manual. Our dealers are independently owned and operated, having
their own policies for their service department. We suggest contacting the
dealer to get a detailed account of what the charge is for and if it's
refundable if the service call qualifies for warranty.

If you are in need of further assistance you can find a local dealer by
clicking on the link below.

United States & Canada:


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## timbo (Oct 26, 2009)

This is not giving me warm fuzzies...Hopefully my dealer will go to bat for me if necessary...He enjoys a very good reputation in the area. So far he/they have been extremely helpful. We shall see.


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## krooser (Oct 26, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> Well I am not happy with the response I received from Harman, I suggest anyone looking at buying a Harman consider the support they give you before you buy!
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Well that's pretty much a BS answer.

I'd find the email address of the PRESIDENT of Harman and send him a link to this thread... if that's all the better warranty Harman has I'm glad I didn't buy one of their stoves... they WERE my first choice when I was looking.


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## Fsappo (Oct 26, 2009)

It doesnt sound like a happy ending to me.  Let us know if you end up taking this further.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 26, 2009)

This kind of story shows up here year in and year out. For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody buys a Harman pellet stove.


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

krooser said:
			
		

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I did send an email back with a response and with a link to this thread, does anyone have the president of Harman email?


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## timbo (Oct 26, 2009)

Harman is now owned by Hearth and Home...not sure if this is the correct info but here's a link to upper management that I found for this company:

http://www.linkedin.com/companies/hearth-&-home-technologies?trk=ppro_cprof&lnk=vw_cprofile

Good Luck...


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> This kind of story shows up here year in and year out. For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody buys a Harman pellet stove.



After this I will tell anyone who is looking for a stove to avoid Harman, especially around here since they have no service techs to service their units.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

Here is the delima from the dealers perspective. 

When someone buys a stove from another dealer, that other dealer made the profit on the sale. The dealer that did not sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement from Harman for labor. The dealer the did sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement. Why should the dealer that made zero money on the sale have to pay for the service call that is outside of the $55 reimbursement? The parts are under warranty, but the labor is only covered from the dealer that sold the unit. Harman has one of the best warranties in the biz, and this service policy holds true for every manufacture out there. If you buy your quadrafire from one dealer, and as another dealer to service it under warranty, then you are going to get charged above and beyond the $55, including trip charges, for the labor.  If the dealer that is going to charge you the additional labor is close, why didn't you buy the unit from him in the first place?


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

MountainStoveGuy said:
			
		

> Here is the delima from the dealers perspective.
> 
> When someone buys a stove from another dealer, that other dealer made the profit on the sale. The dealer that did not sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement from Harman for labor. The dealer the did sell the unit, gets a $55 reimbursement. Why should the dealer that made zero money on the sale have to pay for the service call that is outside of the $55 reimbursement? The parts are under warranty, but the labor is only covered from the dealer that sold the unit. Harman has one of the best warranties in the biz, and this service policy holds true for every manufacture out there. If you buy your quadrafire from one dealer, and as another dealer to service it under warranty, then you are going to get charged above and beyond the $55, including trip charges, for the labor.  If the dealer that is going to charge you the additional labor is close, why didn't you buy the unit from him in the first place?



When I bought my stove this was the only dealer that would sell to me, I called other Harman dealers and was told they could not sell to me I was out of their area. So you ask why because they were not allowed to sell to me. Now if the dealer I bought from can no longer sell Harman that makes hundreds of unsatisfied customers because they are now getting the same song and dance from Harman. This is a Harman stove with a warranty that is no longer being honored. If I bought a name brand appliance from a dealer that no longer carries them or is no longer in business they would still cover their warranty and reimburse another service company to do the work, NOT HARMAN they just say the dealer charges what they want since they are independent.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

Not Harman, or Lennox, or Enviro fire, or any other pellet stove manufacture in the united states. I agree that it sucks, it also sucks as a dealer to go out and fix another dealers sale, and loose money on the gig. This issue is a longstanding one in our industry and we are all trying to get manfucatures to pay more labor charges to the servicing dealers. Every single one of there responses have been that the profit in the original sale is part of the compensation if you have to go out on warranty service work. No profit on sale means lost money to the dealer that has to service the unit.


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## timbo (Oct 26, 2009)

I do commiserate with the dealer's predicament. I do warranty repairs for several music stores in the area for certain brands they sell. Unfortunately, many people come in the store/s, kick the tires, take up salespeople's precious tme and then go out and buy the item from a mail order company for a few dollars less...when it breaks under warranty, rather than ship the item back to the company from where they bought it (at their expense) they drop it off at the store that I do work for because the manufacturer says that there is an authorized repair person there....it really burns the owner when this happens because he never makes back what it costs in time and paperwork to get a warrnaty repair done. UNfortunately with several of these companies, we can't tell the owner to go packing and send it back to where he bought it....we could lose our license to sell this product if it's gets back to the factory rep that we were doing this...

It is a different situation where the place you bought the stove is either no longer in business or is no longer selling that brand. In that case, I would hope that Harman would at least be able to reimburse the repair tech what he has into it for parts/labor without him taking it in the back end.


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## Bxpellet (Oct 26, 2009)

MountainStoveGuy said:
			
		

> Not Harman, or Lennox, or Enviro fire, or any other pellet stove manufacture in the united states. I agree that it sucks, it also sucks as a dealer to go out and fix another dealers sale, and loose money on the gig. This issue is a longstanding one in our industry and we are all trying to get manfucatures to pay more labor charges to the servicing dealers. Every single one of there responses have been that the profit in the original sale is part of the compensation if you have to go out on warranty service work. No profit on sale means lost money to the dealer that has to service the unit.




I have been following this thread, I have a Harman stove, and I am having a problem with my stove and my dealer will come to my house 45 miles away at a cost of $120.00 for a service visit, So my question is what is the profit on the stove? The Advance was $2799.00, I am starting my 3rd season,


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

timbo said:
			
		

> I do commiserate with the dealer's predicament. I do warranty repairs for several music stores in the area for certain brands they sell. Unfortunately, many people come in the store/s, kick the tires, take up salespeople's precious tme and then go out and buy the item from a mail order company for a few dollars less...when it breaks under warranty, rather than ship the item back to the company from where they bought it (at their expense) they drop it off at the store that I do work for because the manufacturer says that there is an authorized repair person there....it really burns the owner when this happens because he never makes back what it costs in time and paperwork to get a warrnaty repair done. UNfortunately with several of these companies, we can't tell the owner to go packing and send it back to where he bought it....we could lose our license to sell this product if it's gets back to the factory rep that we were doing this...
> 
> It is a different situation where the place you bought the stove is either no longer in business or is no longer selling that brand. In that case, I would hope that Harman would at least be able to reimburse the repair tech what he has into it for parts/labor without him taking it in the back end.



That is what I am looking for, for Harman to step up and stand behind their product. I don't have the money to repair the stove if it is going to cost 4-6 hrs of labor, I payed extra so this would not happen. I can do most repairs myself but this is a little involved and I don't really have a good brake down to do it. I can do this type of work, I have torn apart and fixed copiers, printers, car engines and so one but always have had a break down of the parts and diagrams. Harman does not have a good break down of this so it would make it difficult to do especially since I have to give them the part back before I get the new part.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

BXpellet said:
			
		

> I have been following this thread, I have a Harman stove, and I am having a problem with my stove and my dealer will come to my house 45 miles away at a cost of $120.00 for a service visit, So my question is what is the profit on the stove? The Advance was $2799.00, I am starting my 3rd season,




If he is the closest dealer to you, and he sold you the stove. He should not be charging you a service visit. If he is, then that is poor customer service. If you have a dealer closer to you then the one that is 45 minutes away, then that dealer is your servicing dealer and that dealer should have been the one that sold you the unit. Profit on stoves is about 30% minus shipping costs.


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## dobie daddy (Oct 26, 2009)

yada yada yada. Just like most companies once they get your money your ******.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

dobie daddy said:
			
		

> yada yada yada. Just like most companies once they get your money your ******.



yea....


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

dobie daddy said:
			
		

> yada yada yada. Just like most companies once they get your money your ******.



Yea, but if I can help decrease their sales maybe they will start looking at their dealers and correct issues with them. I am one person but if more people speak out then they will start to get the point. 

*I know wishful thinking!*


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

You can try to drive a decrease in sales, and persude a potential reader to buy a different product, but any product that that potential buyer comes across has the exact same problem as you have if the situation is the same. As matter of fact, they have a worse problem to contend with because they have a sub par 1 year electrical warranty that is the standard in the industry.


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## goatman-68 (Oct 26, 2009)

I guess I was lucky and have a good dealer (Earth Sense). I had numerous problems with my first XXV. The dealer came out at least six times and were very attentive. They finally ended up at my request, replacing my stove with a new one. Anyway, I think they told me that they will come out free of charge for the first (i think) six months, it might have been 3 months, cant remember. After that I will have to pay the $120.00 service call charge, but all parts and labor were covered for the first 2 years. This is all from memory since I am at work...........


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## Bkins (Oct 26, 2009)

This warrany business is the main reason I didn't buy a new stove and bought used instead.  I sent a E-mail to Quadrafire and got the same type of BS response.

I would NOT be sending them e-mails and would switch to certified mail with return receipt.  I think you need to go on record with them about this.  Maybe if you ask one of the Harman dealers on this site, by PM, for the correct person to send the letter to they may get it for you.

Their system doesn't work for the consumer but does work for them because it shifts all costs to the dealer level and lets them hide behind this system.  I would be bumping a copy of your letter to your states attorney general and anyone else you think may help to put pressure on Harman.  You need to start playing a better hardball game with them.  Don't get nasty and don't say things that are in a gray area.  State your proiblem and state what resoultion you want.  I would ask for a new stove based on the defect.

Let us know how things play out.

Bkins


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## krooser (Oct 26, 2009)

Imagine the consumer outcry if the auto industry worked like the pellet stove industry.

You buy a car in New York and the engine blows in North Carolina after 5,000 miles. Now the owner must either tow the car to new York to have the selling dealer repair it OR pay for the labor to have it fixed in North Carolina.

I have been in and out of the auto biz several times. Back in the 60's and early 70's we didn't have to repair cars that wern't sold at our dealership. But we did, most times, because it simply was good business. If our service dept. did a good job we'd have a shot at selling the customer a car next time around.

I worked in sales at a Ford store from '91 to ''97. We always told the customer that we'd still service their car even if they didn't buy from us. Times had changed and we had to service every car in order to keep our franchise. But only OUR customers got a free loaner, a discount on non-warranty service and other perks. That kept many sales from going to the "low priced leader" 40 miles away.

Me? I'd do warranty service on any stove... my original sale or not. Give the customer a discount on labor for the warranty repair. Or limit your discount labor offer to in-shop repairs not service calls. Find a way to get that customer to buy from you the next time they need a new stove or parts/service.

A short term loss of $$$ may turn into a long term gain ie: customer.

Remember the slogan... If we don't take care of the customer somebody else will.


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## Fsappo (Oct 26, 2009)

Warranty is only as good as the dealer you buy from.  True, manufacturers dont give us retailers squat for fixing a stove.  Regency gives us $30 per call.  You send a man out there once to diagnose and once to fix, you lose money.  But I did make money selling the stove.  I would NEVER tell one of my customers that even though their stove is under warranty that they would have to pay to get it fixed (Unless it's a pellet stove that was never cleaned.  Then we fix it, clean it and bill them for the cleaning)

There's some good retailers out there who know the way to stay in business is thru excellent customer service.  We as an industry want customers to shop locally, support the small business man.  How can we convince customer to do this if they feel their local guy is not going to take care of them?  If retailers start to offer lousy service, why would a customer feel like spending more money there?

I don't like hearing this kind of thing


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

what it boils down to is that all manufactures need to revamp there warranty policies to help the dealer and consumer, and not themselves. As of now, companies that go out of business are free and clear of any responsibility, and manufactures do not compensate there good dealers to take care of the customers that did business with the bad dealers.  Even the dealers that do there own warranty work for jobs that they sell, always loose with the current system. If any of  you readers own a business, you know it costs more then $55 to get the truck out of the driveway, much less to cover a complete warranty call. The warranty compensation is a joke. All the manufactures hold hands and enforce the same policy. Manufactures should compensate every dealer real time and labor cost, but what they do instead is give the dealer this piss ant $50 check and say have a nice day. How in a bad economy, when business is down 30%, can a dealer send out a service crew out for a half a day and loose $500 worth of expenses when they did not make any money in the first place? The rule of thumb is that the first service call takes most of your profit, the second is a wash. This is why dealers have to be particular about what stoves they carry. If you get a bad batch of stoves it can kill your business and the stove shop and consumer are the ones left holding the bill, not the manufacture.


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

One problem I see with Harman dealers now is they don't have to have a service department and service the stoves they sell.  When I bought my stove the shop that sold the stove was under agreement or contract that they would service and do the warranty work. How do the one's that do not have a service department get around this? If the dealer who is 48 miles away will do the work under warranty if I get it to him I would find a way to get it to him, it would be better then paying for 6 hrs of labor. heck I would pay him for the travel time if it was at a reasonable cost.


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## slls (Oct 26, 2009)

I wonder how many stoves the average dealer sells, that didn't need warranty repairs at all. I bet a lot would make for good profits.


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## swalz (Oct 26, 2009)

goatman-68 said:
			
		

> I guess I was lucky and have a good dealer (Earth Sense). I had numerous problems with my first XXV. The dealer came out at least six times and were very attentive. They finally ended up at my request, replacing my stove with a new one. Anyway, I think they told me that they will come out free of charge for the first (i think) six months, it might have been 3 months, cant remember. After that I will have to pay the $120.00 service call charge, but all parts and labor were covered for the first 2 years. This is all from memory since I am at work...........



I would take a new stove would be easier to put another stove in then do the repair. I might ask the area Rep if he gets back to me, call him again today and waiting on a response.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 26, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> goatman-68 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you will have good luck with the area rep. They are usually sympathetic to these kinds of issues, and most are in agreement that manufactures warranty polices are a joke.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 26, 2009)

kinsman stoves said:
			
		

> Best of luck.  But I agree it is not Harman at fault but the dealer.  Right now dealers are slammed with repairs of all kinds.  If the dealer does not have the parts it might take weeks to get them.  I just did a total rebuild of a 5 yr old PC-45.  I am still waiting on parts.  I was lucky that I got some of the parts from another dealer.
> 
> Eric



'Not Harman'??????????????  Aren't they the ones that set the warranty rates for the dealers?  Aren't they the ones that don't answer the phone or tell you that it's not their problem?  Aren't they the ones that wash their hands of the problem and push it on the dealer who gets MINIMUM reimbursement?  Aren't they the ones who designed and built the stove?  Shouldn't they, therefore, be responsible for ALL reasonable repair charges? 
I have Quads but now we are all in the same leaky, listing HHT garbage scow!!


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## dobie daddy (Oct 26, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> dobie daddy said:
> 
> 
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no problem. I will tell anyone who will listen about them. Since I am a pellet burner "and everyone knows" I get ask lots of ?'s.


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## kbjelka (Oct 27, 2009)

That does suck.  The warranty seems pretty straight forward to me.  I am not a big fan of dealers hiding behind the company they are representing.  I think if they decide to carry a brand then they are the face of that company and should do all they can to provide the service promised.  I would contact everyone I could daily and keep calling till they are sick of hearing it.  I'm sure you bought the Harman in good faith based in some part on their "best in the industry" warranty.  Time for Harman, and their dealers to pony up.


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## Stentor (Oct 27, 2009)

Please keep us posted on how this plays out. I'm sorry about your problem but I'm also interested because I bought a Harman last year, partly due to their reputation. The dealer's been fine, I burn good pellets and keep the stove clean, and everything's OK so far. But the experience of other people is something I'd like to continue to keep an eye on. And I do hope you solve your problem.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 27, 2009)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> kinsman stoves said:
> 
> 
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> ...



actually HHT brought the quad service policy to harmon. This has been standard operating procedure for HHT for years.


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## tjnamtiw (Oct 27, 2009)

MountainStoveGuy said:
			
		

> actually HHT brought the quad service policy to harmon. This has been standard operating procedure for HHT for years.



That doesn't make me feel any better, that's for sure!  Sounds like it is a customer no-service policy.  Sell it and forget it.  They might as well send their warranty department to Manila, like everyone else.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 27, 2009)

No, the policy is industry wide. The policy is designed for the selling dealer to take care of his own sales, and not get people from buying from dealer A that is out of dealers B service area, and ask dealer B to do the work on from a sale that dealer A made. Its a fail policy, just for cases like this. If the dealer stays in business that you buy any stove from, you can expect a full warranty. As soon as that dealer goes belly up, its a parts warranty only. This is why its fail, but our industry has yet to come up with anything better.


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## swalz (Oct 27, 2009)

Rep called and said Harman will be paying $450 for the repair, waiting on dealer to call me and set up schedule.


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## amick780 (Oct 27, 2009)

Thats great news, I have had a decent experience with Harman so far...but we have a really good well established dealer in our area. I do believe that harman does try, but sometimes the dealer network is what gives them a bad rap. Hopefully harman will come up with a better way to serve its customers. Maybe dealer service 1st but harman could have their own area service representatives in areas where dealers have drop the lines or had them taken away.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Oct 27, 2009)

Awesome! glad the rep came through for you. No go back and edit all those posts  :coolsmirk:


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## thewoodlands (Oct 27, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> Rep called and said Harman will be paying $450 for the repair, waiting on dealer to call me and set up schedule.



Great news!

Zap


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## Fsappo (Oct 27, 2009)

good job following thru.  Keep us posted


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## dobie daddy (Oct 27, 2009)

bout time


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## swalz (Nov 12, 2009)

Well the parts have come in for the stove and it is being picked up tomorrow to be taken back to the shop for repair. Hopefully I will get it back before the weather really gets cold, good thing that it hasn't been that cold yet. 

Now I just need to hope that my Boiler survives the winter, when it was cleaned last week I was informed that it is leaking and is going to need to be replaced soon! :gulp:


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## Fsappo (Nov 12, 2009)

If that stove wont be fixed and back within a day or two, they should have provided a loaner


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## swalz (Nov 12, 2009)

Franks said:
			
		

> If that stove wont be fixed and back within a day or two, they should have provided a loaner



Not going to push that since the dealer I bought the stove from no longer sells Harman or services them and this is another Harman dealer. Just happy it is going to be fixed, has been a battle to get it covered. It has been down for at least a month now and my wife keeps bugging me when it is going to be fixed.


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## Fsappo (Nov 12, 2009)

right, forgot about that part.  Well, good luck on the furnace staying lit. If the furnace dies, get a few electric heaters and go with them temorarily


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## swalz (Nov 12, 2009)

Franks said:
			
		

> right, forgot about that part.  Well, good luck on the furnace staying lit. If the furnace dies, get a few electric heaters and go with them temorarily



Well it is my hot water also so I have some sealer coming that I am going to put in to see if it will seal the leak and start getting quotes for replacement. I should be able to hold until the summer.


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## bjr23 (Nov 12, 2009)

I agree with Bkins. I don't care what kinda warranty or who from. I stay away from it. I've found that if you buy economical (used, with no warranty) you'll save down the road. Okay, once in while you'll get stuck. but at the end of the year you'll come out ahead. Manufacturers have to cover warranty cost of a new unit with at time of sale. They then try to weasel out of the warranty. That's the busines plan. I had to eat some things that just didn't pan out, but, I still feel I've come out ahead of most of my purchases and haven't had to waste time fighting "warranty issues".  bjr23


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## katpaws (Nov 22, 2009)

Gee, I found this website & was happy I finally found someone talking about the Harman PF100....I got one last year with the thought of burning a bag a day & having a nice warm house that I could leave for a weekend if I wanted to. Not so. My house last year wouldn't go above 62 unless it was at least 48 outside.  I had the dealer out several times - even had the owner out & all they could tell me was there was no way I could be burning thru 4 bags a day. Ok, so then why was I going to them to buy a ton of pellets almost every other weekend? 
I was hoping someone could give me some suggestions on what I can do to correct this issue. Sounds like I need to go back to wood. Now how do I find a sucker to buy mine? I went to pellets after doing what I thought was enough research - wish I would have checked here!! Don't have the cash to install a stainless chimney - still have the hotblast furnace though. I had a fire where a patch behind the wall failed & a spark took out part of the wall & roof. I used insurance money to get the Harman & 4" piping.
What settings are best to get a decent burn time & a little heat? I'll take any & all suggestions!


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## webbie (Nov 22, 2009)

Kat, better to start a new thread or find one more similar to your exact situation...
but, in general,
if you are burning the pellets - 3-4 lbs per hour, then you are getting the heat. What happens with the heat after it comes out of the stove is another story (heat loss, etc.)......

It may be that you have to go back to wood - still, 4 bags a day is 7 lbs per hour, which will provide about 35,000 plus BTU out....should do the job better than you say.


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## seaken (Nov 23, 2009)

MountainStoveGuy said:
			
		

> BXpellet said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, if the dealer sold the stove to a customer 45 minutes away then it's his problem, not the closest dealer. In our area this will be a common scenario since we have several dealerships closest to the metro area but our customers live in areas that are sparsely populated. There may be another dealer technically "closer" but we are still authorized to sell to anyone in our market area. We choose if we want to service folks who are outside of our normal "area". Usually the customer has already tried the dealership closer to them with poor results. We negotiate our service fees ahead of time with these customers so they know what to expect. But we still are on the hook for warranty claims, no matter how far we have to travel.

To be fair, MSG, we really do not know what this "problem" is that BXpellet speaks of. I plainly tell my customers that I will not charge them a service fee if there is a valid warranty claim but that they will be charged if it is not a warranty issue. I also explain to them the limits of their warranty and that it is at our discretion if a fee has to be collected to help cover travel costs not covered by the manufacturer. I give them the option to bring the stove to our shop if they do not want to pay a travel fee. 

Finally, the "profit" on the stove sale is not simply to enrich the shop owner. In my business a 30% margin does not even cover expenses. This is one of the problems I am having in my own market is the deeply discounted prices available on similar or even the same product I sell. I cannot stay in business at a 30% margin. When I sell to a customer who knows he could have bought the same unit for 10% or 15% less I had better make sure I take care of that customer. And I do. But the problem is that the number of customers who are willing to pay for that extra level of service are fewer and I am in fear of losing my ability to keep the same level of customer service. Other dealerships (usually hardware stores or rental equipment, or lawn mower shops, etc.) who discount the products to get the sale hurt us all. If they could only learn to charge more and then give good service we would all be a lot better off.  But to suggest that charging for service is "poor customer service" is off the mark. The customer should be charged for good service when appropriate and customers should not expect their dealer to give good service for no charge. If I end up selling my products at a 30% margin I will be announcing the end of my "good" service and begin charging hourly rates for "adequate service" as needed. I hope I can avoid that. That type of business has much less appeal to me.

Consumers should not be concerned about the "profit" made off the sale of their stove. They should be concerned if this "profit" is not being used properly. From what I can tell many consumers would pay more if they could be assured of better customer service. What many dealerships are missing is the business sense needed to charge higher prices and provide excellent customer service. Excellent customer service costs a lot of money. Dealerships should not assume that consumers are not willing to pay for it. What consumers object to is paying more for no better service. There a are lot of good dealers all over the country. You don't hear as much about them because fewer people are inclined to write about how wonderful their dealer is. It's much more fun to tell everyone when you have a bad experience. But I do see a lot of room for improvement for dealerships. Perhaps if the manufacturers started rewarding quality over quantity we would get better dealerships all over. An ombudsmen for end consumers would probably help. This situation with Harman is completely unnecessary. If they just talked to their end users it could all be avoided.


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## swalz (Dec 4, 2009)

*Well it is getting cold and still don't have my stove back. * >:-( 

Talked to the guy doing the repair and he said he just received the parts, the dealer had the parts in since Nov 20th. I also found out that the service guy charges $120 hr way to much in my opinion, he said that since it is in the shop being done that he will most likely do the shop rate. He has not got back to me yet on the price so I am not sure what I am going to owe. I am still never going to recommend a Harman stove to anyone in my area, if they don't have service staff on hand then why pay the premium for the stove.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 4, 2009)

well, its a warranted repair, so, Im curious what the bottom line to you should be, please keep us all informed. harman is theoretically paying someone $450 to do the work....the only possible out of pocket I could see for you, POSSIBLY, would be to cover the new dealer and his mileage picking the stove up and delivering it. What a headache! (Both for you and the "new" dealer who has to support a unit he didnt sell) Looks like the only one here who really made out is the original dealer who profited off of the original sale!


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## rickwa (Dec 4, 2009)

how you coming along swalz? i work for a harman dealer.  we have changed 6 or so of the feeders.  harman pays well to do this.  after doing one it is not that bad  4-5 hrs and 2 trips.  harman pays good for this repair.  i dont know why other dealers wont do it.


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## rickwa (Dec 4, 2009)

i guess i missed part of the post, sorry.   i actual repair is paid for from harman.  on units we did not install we give the customer an option to bring the unit in for rebuild.  or we can come and get it for a fee not 120/hr though.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 4, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> how you coming along swalz? i work for a harman dealer.  we have changed 6 or so of the feeders.  harman pays well to do this.  after doing one it is not that bad  4-5 hrs and 2 trips.  harman pays good for this repair.  i dont know why other dealers wont do it.



depending upon which unit it is, Harman pays differently for a warrantee rebuild. One of the biggest problems this time of year is other work. Its cold out, folks stoves need service. in the time that you can pick up, rebuild, and deliver and reinstall a unit, how many other customers can you service? For us, thats on of the biggest issues. But just for fun, sit down and add in the time it takes to pick up, deliver and re-install......depends where the stove is, but I will bet youve got another 3-4 hours there of work.....so, in reality, for each rebuild, youve got 6-8 hours of work......let alone the lost revenue in serviceing your own customers (assuming, like this, the unit came from another dealer).....


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## swalz (Dec 8, 2009)

OK, just got off the phone with the company repairing my stove, they want $1140 for the repair!  
I told them that was unreasonable and if I new that they were going to charge that I would not have let them take the stove. They are charging me 5.5 hours for the repair and 4 hours to pick up and deliver the stove at $120 hr. He was going to charge $175 hr and I almost had a heart attact, after I told him that when we last spoke he said it was $120 hr for on site but he was going to see about the shop rate to make it less. They are charging 4 hours at $120 to pickup and deliver the stove. 2 hours to pick up, I had the stove out and all they did was load it up on a truck and two guys did it while going to another job, he said he needed 4 guys to offload it. So I am getting charged $480 to pick up and deliver the stove, Not right at all! 

I put in a call to the dealer and the person handling the issue is out today, waiting to hear what they are going to do.

Buyer beware of Harman!


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## minnow (Dec 8, 2009)

Maybe it's time to take Harman to Small Claims Court and get a judgement against them.


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## Bkins (Dec 8, 2009)

This sounds more like a dealer problem with them not honoring their agreement with you for the agreed upon rate.  They deserve to be paid for their time to come get it and bring it back but NOT $175, or $120 per hour to do so.  I agree that you should get some form of a lawsuit going if the representive will not step in to get this straigthened out.  What is the point of the warranty if this is how a customer is going to be treated.  I don't believe you can start a lawsuit until you are actually out something.  Time to notify your state agencys and the BBB about how you are being treated.  If Harman is a member they don't want something like this on their record and will do most anything to get it fixed.  You need to be the squeaky wheel right now.

Bkins


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## newf lover (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm sorry if this has been covered, but I am confused. the problem is clearly within the warranty period, the warranty clearly states parts and labor, but you are getting charged $1140 for a repair?? Can't you take it to small claims for breach of a written contract? Funny how they aren't clear about how much it will cost until after they have your stove they can hold for ransom. Do they have a consumer watchdog at one of your local papers or TV stations? Time to bring this to light and make life difficult for some people. They've certainly made it difficult for you.


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## littlesmokey (Dec 9, 2009)

Before you go to court, do you have a consumer protection agency for the state? This is a "bait and switch" type scam. Tell the dealer to restore the stove to the condition you brought it in/had it picke dup and return the stove.  Interestingly, in Utah one of the TV stations have a regular consumer advocate reporter who is a true bull dog, he'd grab a hold of this and tear that dealer a new one. Do you have something like that?  You are in a tough spot and the Attorney General of the state is there to protect you. Get the dogs on the dealer and the tune may change


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## swalz (Dec 9, 2009)

I am waiting on the dealer to get back to me on how they are going to handle it, not only do I have to worry about this I am getting quotes on replacing my boiler that is dying. After being told the cost I am feeling sick and upset, not what I needed to her right now. I have been asking what the cost will be ever since Haman said they would cover $450 and no one would give me an answer. I told the dealer that I could not afford much and they made the arrangements to be picked up and serviced. I never agreed to any amount of money and never signed anything saying that I authorized the repair. The service company just came and picked up the stove and never said what it was going to cost. I would think if it was going to cost this much they should have informed me, not sure if I can use that against them or not, I will be talking to the Harman dealer tomorrow morning and might have to start seeing what I can do legally.

I am going to see if I can find a way to pickup myself, maybe rent a small u haul truck so that extra 2 hours of them doing nothing can be charged.


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## swalz (Dec 9, 2009)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Before you go to court, do you have a consumer protection agency for the state? This is a "bait and switch" type scam. Tell the dealer to restore the stove to the condition you brought it in/had it picke dup and return the stove.  Interestingly, in Utah one of the TV stations have a regular consumer advocate reporter who is a true bull dog, he'd grab a hold of this and tear that dealer a new one. Do you have something like that?  You are in a tough spot and the Attorney General of the state is there to protect you. Get the dogs on the dealer and the tune may change



I will give them a call after I talk to the dealer if they don't resolve the issue.


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## krooser (Dec 9, 2009)

IF you wind up in court get everybody involved... the dealer, his employees, the Harman distributor (if there is one) and all the officers of Harman and it's parent company... serve them all. No one will want to get involved and they will settle to make you go away.


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## imacman (Dec 9, 2009)

krooser said:
			
		

> IF you wind up in court get everybody involved... the dealer, his employees, the Harman distributor (if there is one) and all the officers of Harman and it's parent company... serve them all. No one will want to get involved and they will settle to make you go away.



I agree that he should serve everyone possible, but I think in the case of harman & it's officers, he'd have to have them served in the state & city where the parent company offices are in Penn.  .....very $$ to do from Delaware


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## webbie (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah, you don't want to spend money and time to make a bad situation worse.
Usually better to try honey first.....

I just had a situation with bedding where I got some satisfaction, but Ma. has a decent customer protection law...you basically send a form letter with your problem (mine was bait and switch) and if it goes to court the other party is due 3x damages.

But a situation like this can be more complicated. Better to start with the low cost local (county or state) customer orgs...that is, if Harman or the dealer or whoever you feel wronged you does not make things right.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 9, 2009)

geez...Im a dealer, and $1140 to replace the feeder weldment IS excessive.....incredible!


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## swalz (Dec 9, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> geez...Im a dealer, and $1140 to replace the feeder weldment IS excessive.....incredible!



What do you charge an hr?

Not to many places service pellet stove here in upper DE, I would like to know about what the going rate should be.


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## rickwa (Dec 9, 2009)

harman provides all the parts and 450 for labor.  even if your dealer is charging 100/hour (excessive) that gives 4.5 hrs to do the job.  your dealer is getting parts and 450 from harman.   which means he is getting almost 1600 FOR THAT JOB  everybody needs to make a living but it sounds like he is trying to make his on you   harman dealer have to sign a contract for warranty repair.  i am sure this is a breech of that contract  let us know the name of the dealer so nobody else gets screwed by this clown


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## Bkins (Dec 9, 2009)

This is not being done by a Harman dealer if I read this thread correctly.  It is a servicing shop that the dealers in his area use.  TheHarman dealers have no techs of their own.  Someone needs to be paid for the travel time to his house, to the shop, and back to the house.  The servicing shop is acting like they have a home run.  Time to make some serious noise.  As I've mentioned before I've had very good luck with the BBB.  Takes a little bit of time but anything he does, short of just paying the inflated bill, is going to take some time.  What does the Harman rep say about this?  Will they take the stove back and repair it at the factory?

Bkins


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## Sawduster (Dec 9, 2009)

I own a Harmon, but after reading all of the negative posts regarding this company over the past year, I'll be damned if I will ever buy another one!  It is also infuriating that you can buy no parts for their stoves except through their dealer network - complete crap!  Their warrantee which is a big part of their appeal is also apparently next to worthless.


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## Bigjim13 (Dec 9, 2009)

Sawduster said:
			
		

> I own a Harmon, but after reading all of the negative posts regarding this company over the past year, I'll be damned if I will ever buy another one!  It is also infuriating that you can buy no parts for their stoves except through their dealer network - complete crap!  Their warrantee which is a big part of their appeal is also apparently next to worthless.



yeah, I bought a p61A last season and after reading everything here I'm a little nervous.  One of the main selling points was the warranty.  I had a slight issue with my room sensing probe last year and it took an act of congress to get the dealer out here to look at my stove- and I have AGREED to pay the mileage to get to my house since its about a 40 min drive from the shop.  I just wanted my stove up and running again!


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## rap69ri (Dec 9, 2009)

Bigjim13 said:
			
		

> Sawduster said:
> 
> 
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Looks like we all need to become pellet stove experts so we can fix our own stoves. Would the dealer give us the parts to replace ourselves if it's still under warranty?


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## Bigjim13 (Dec 9, 2009)

rap69ri said:
			
		

> Bigjim13 said:
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I doubt it, if they did there would most likely be a "dealer to owner part transfer fee" that would be involved and of course cost of labor for ordering the part and opening the box when it comes to the shop.  

I say this sarcastically of course, I know there are several great dealers out there...


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## imacman (Dec 9, 2009)

Bkins said:
			
		

> This is not being done by a Harman dealer if I read this thread correctly.  It is a servicing shop that the dealers in his area use.  TheHarman dealers have no techs of their own.  ...............  What does the Harman rep say about this?  Will they take the stove back and repair it at the factory?
> 
> Bkins



It would seem to me, that to have been selected as a Harman dealer in the first place, they either told harman they had no techs of their own and would be using "outside help" (therefore harman knew & agreed to this), or they told Harman they had their own techs on premises (in which they lied, but it seems Harman would STILL be responsible).

IMO, at this point, and with the $$ numbers that are being thrown around to "fix" the stove, I would be demanding that harman take the stove back & refund the purchase price.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 9, 2009)

rap69ri said:
			
		

> Bigjim13 said:
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we have, in fact, done that. Ive several customers who work  on their own units, or just dont want their dealer to work on it , for some reason or another   .......we just check to ensure the unit is still under warrantee, get the info from the customer, and the bad part, and put it through as a "parts only" warrantee (we dont get labor, of course, we didnt do the work)


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## jtakeman (Dec 9, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> rap69ri said:
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lousyweather, Thats very sporting of you. I hope this may make a trend. Heck I would even offer to pay for the time it takes to do the look up and warranty paper work. What other brands do you carry. May need to pay you a visit some day. May I PM for details?

3 cheers for you and very nice of you to do this.
jay


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## Bigjim13 (Dec 9, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> rap69ri said:
> 
> 
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I wish I was more technically savvy, I'm just not in general a very handy person.  I guess all those AP classes I took in HS that my guidance counselor recommended really came in handy, LOL.  Oh well.  I will say though, that I have gotten pretty good at figuring things out with my stove since we bought it.  As long as nothing major, knock on wood, happens I should be ok.


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## FireJumper (Dec 9, 2009)

Who's the dealer you're dealing with?


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## webbie (Dec 9, 2009)

It seems like Harman is providing enough money to fix the stove. I can't fault them at all.

The problem is more one of the lack of dealers and dealer training for a relatively new technology (pellet stoves).
The same thing is just as likely, or even more likely, to have happened with other brands...

From the very start, we have suggested that people buy their pellet stoves from a local dealer who can..and will fix them. Of course, if a dealer goes belly up all bets are off. 

Or, if you are very handy, get a good price on a stove....or a used stove....with the mindset that you are going to use the money you saved to maintain the stove.


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## HEMI (Dec 9, 2009)

do a little homework on the dealer before the purchase....I went to 3 different dealers, went to each one a few times and also called them a few times...I installed myself and whenever i need to call them i don't feel rushed off the phone. I end it with thanks so much for your help, and i always get "thats what we're here for". I called monday with an issue, the guy took my info, look me up in his system and said no problem, we'll be there thurs. AM......The 2 dealers i didn't go with were like car salesmen (no offense to anyone here who is), but to me pressured sales usually tells me that they don't care about you at all..just your money!


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## littlesmokey (Dec 9, 2009)

Maybe I missed something here, guess I will re-read the thread, but I thought the OP said Harmon was kicking in $450, and the "dealer" wanted $1140 from the owner. That's almost $1600 for something that should be covered under warrantee. That just doesn't add up for me. Granted Harman may not be at fault here, and are trying to resolve the issues, but **** is ****. That "dealer" should be publically flogged. The "dealer" is in quotes on purpose, no one who pulls this should be any stove manufacturer's dealer.


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## FireJumper (Dec 9, 2009)

Sounds like to me that the dealer is shafting John Q Homeowner because they didn't sell the stove. From what I understand Harman pays their dealers $55 labor regardless of the problem for a typical warranty. Obviously this isn't a typical warranty, sounds like they are trying to compinsate the dealer because of the amount of work that needs to be done. $450 is a nice chunk of change for a few hours of work.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 9, 2009)

jtakeman said:
			
		

> Lousyweather said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you can always PM me......we exclusively sell Harman


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## swalz (Dec 9, 2009)

It was $1400 hundred and some change at first then the service guy knocked it down to $1140 after I informed him that he said that his hourly rate was $120 but he would be giving me the shop rate. He has already repaired the stove, I asked before he repaired the stove what it was going to cost he said he would right it up and get back to me. I waited a few days and called him back after not hearing from him, he said the stove was done and told me what it was going to cost. Did I miss something? I asked how much it was going to cost and he said he was going to get back to me. Harman is giving $450 so the total cost is $690 still way to much. He wants to charge $480 for pickup and delivery this does not include install. He said that he is charging me 2 hours each way at $120 hour :gulp: he never said that when his guys picked it up, it was on the truck most of the day the guy who picked it up said he was on his way to another call in the area and he was taking it back when he had finished his calls. I am going to rent a uhaul to go pick up myself should save me around $200. I just need him to drop his rate like he said he was going to do. I have a call into Delaware Consumer Protection and they will be getting back to me tomorrow. I informed them that I ask for what it was going to cost and they repaired it then told me what I owed. Not sure if the news would take on this story but I know that several Harman customers are upset that they were sold a stove by the stove shop that no longer sells them and been having similar issues just not as drastic as my repair.

The service shop is 16.4 miles from my house and if I was informed of the service rates they would have not been allowed to take the stove. The dealer contacted this service company and no one would give me any information on service fees, the dealer told me that they use this guy all the time and people were satified with him. I talked to another person at the dealer yesterday and the guy said that they use several contractors and this guy gets 1 out of 10 jobs. I am not faulting the dealer but they should know the rates of the people they use, they made it look like that they had an agreement with this guy at discounted rates which I found out today they just have a list and call one to service. 

I could have received the parts and did myself but I would have to give them the old parts before they would give me the new parts and after what other Harman techs said about the repair I decides to let them repair it. The service shop did not have to give the old part back before they received the new parts.


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## littlesmokey (Dec 10, 2009)

That flat stinks. I would call the local law enforcement agency, ask to speak to a detective and lay your case out. Ask if they would accompany you to pick up your property from the shop, uniformed in marked car preferred. When you arrive at the shop explain you are picking up your stove and the shop can deal with the manufacturer on the charges. Have them sign a release of property to you and don't think twice. Take a friend to help load, because the office can't help and the shop won't. If you are told by the police that you must pay, use your American Express card, and write across the receipt, "Unauthorized repair" When you get home and before you offer your friend a hot cup of coffee, call AmX and stop payment. Then take a deep breathe, call the shop back and tell them you are referring the matter to the proper authorities. Keep good receipts for your costs (truck, lunch, helper payment, lunch, trips to the court house, coffee, lunch, etc). Make sure you documment your time for travelling 16 miles and unloading the stove, (two hours?????) and get everyones names.  If it gets to court, or arbitration, the clearer you are on the events and the better the detail you have the better the outcome. This could cost the shop his license to do business even in Delaware.


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## EKLawton (Dec 10, 2009)

I need to get a job picking up stoves $480.00 (16.4 miles x2 =33 miles) THATS $14.55 A MILE thats what i call a fuel surcharge. sign me up.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 10, 2009)

not saying the outrageous prices here are even close to fair, but I am curious about what you folks think a fair charge is to un-install, pick up, deliver, and re-install the XXV?


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## Bkins (Dec 10, 2009)

A case of beer for the removal and a case of beer for the install should take care of all charges. LOL  I would think somewhere between $200 to $300 would be fair.  There are a lot of variables such as the distance, any steps involved. 2 employees involved, access in the home, hence the spread.  What do you feel would be a fair charge to do a 30 mile round trip, 6 steps with otherwise easy access, with 2 employees needed?  As I have posted in this forum before the closest dealer in my area think he should be paid a kings ransome for his work and parts.  My dealer here has a cost structure posted on his wall, in the showroom, of a insert install.  It starts at $ 1,600 and goes up from there.  This was a year ago.  

Bkins


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## littlesmokey (Dec 10, 2009)

You may get prices all over the place. I charge my hourly labor rate plus up to $25 fuel charge. That started when gas was $4./gal. Generally it's a simple pick up and drop off for me. I don't do "install" work, but time in home is minimal. All charges are clearly stated up front. I am a one man shop, so you get the boss. If they are a regular customer, the charge is only on the pick up side. A little discount. For something even 20 miles away the charge would about $40. 

I do restoration work, mostly furrniture or architectural mill work. A set of eight chairs may take 10 minutes to load. My shop rate has dropped to keep as much work as possible, but I still have to pay the overhead. Charging $120/hr/man is unconscionable. That tech is probably making less than $20/hour, if he's making that. 

Personally, I'd get the stove back and spend some of my much cheaper time going after this goon. Even to the point of writing a short narrative and see that all companies this joker handles gets a copy of the document. Make sure it is accurate and detailed, you don't want to lose a slander suit.

Had the wife of a prominent attorney upon delivery laugh in my face when I made a substantial delivery and asked to be paid. She said, "So, sue me. My husband is a very prominent attorney." I took her advise, sued her got statements from others less willing to take on the b!#^!$ and filed a greivence with the State Bar for His knowing collusion. A week later, started getting calls from others in the business that they received a certified check as payment in full. I refused the certified letter from the husbands law firm and forced her to show up in court, and admit what she did. I won damages and costs, and the satisfaction she now is a cash in advance customer in the antiques businesseven after ten years.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 10, 2009)

Bkins said:
			
		

> A case of beer for the removal and a case of beer for the install should take care of all charges. LOL  I would think somewhere between $200 to $300 would be fair.  There are a lot of variables such as the distance, any steps involved. 2 employees involved, access in the home, hence the spread.  What do you feel would be a fair charge to do a 30 mile round trip, 6 steps with otherwise easy access, with 2 employees needed?  As I have posted in this forum before the closest dealer in my area think he should be paid a kings ransome for his work and parts.  My dealer here has a cost structure posted on his wall, in the showroom, of a insert install.  It starts at $ 1,600 and goes up from there.  This was a year ago.
> 
> Bkins



Agreed in that all deliveries/pickups are different, and I tend to agree $300 seems fair ($200 seems a bit low) as well. The XXv is a "two guy" unit, in my opinion. I guess one lesson learned here might be to get a quote in writing before the stove ever even leaves. Certainly, if you knew how much they wanted to charge, you never would have gone with them in the first place. When we do service calls we try to communicate what the charges will be BEFORE WE EVER EVEN LEAVE. More often than not, the issue is usually due to cleaning, and most folks are willing to do a more thorough cleaning than pay for a service call. Its not much of an argument when the tech goes to a home, replaces no parts, and it runs 20 mins later! 

As an aside, we've had a few issues lately of homeowners who make appointments with the tech, the tech shows in the 1 hour window the homeowner specified, and the homeowner didnt show....what the "right" thing to do there? Heck, we even have one person who made TWO appointments and didnt bother to show for either one. My answer to that is to remind him that it costs us to send a tech over, and in order for us to go back for a 3rd appointment, it will cost $200 just for us to show up....ugh....sucks when its warrantee work too!


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> not saying the outrageous prices here are even close to fair, but I am curious about what you folks think a fair charge is to un-install, pick up, deliver, and re-install the XXV?



I had it unhooked and waiting for them, they want to charge $240 just to pick ip up.


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## Bkins (Dec 10, 2009)

Seems like there is a lot of price gougeing going on there.  How far away are you from the servicing shop?  I've seen posted 2 hours, one way, and I've seen 16 miles.  Not that the distance would make that much difference.

Bkins


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## goatman-68 (Dec 10, 2009)

In the parts breakdown they show a ceramic gasket between the auger tube and the burn pot. I wonder if that is what you are seeing as the gap. I dont see where there is a weld that went bad, unless your auger tube is what cracked. 

Here is a link to an exploded view and parts list.   http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/serviceParts/XXV.pdf


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

goatman-68 said:
			
		

> In the parts breakdown they show a ceramic gasket between the auger tube and the burn pot. I wonder if that is what you are seeing as the gap. I dont see where there is a weld that went bad, unless your auger tube is what cracked.
> 
> Here is a link to an exploded view and parts list.   http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/serviceParts/XXV.pdf



Yes the crack is in the auger tube.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 10, 2009)

actually, there are two fiberglass gaskets.....one on the back side of the unit where the auger weldment bolts on, and one on the inside where the burnpot weldment bolts to the auger weldment. And the hole isnt a "crack" in the strictest sense.....more that the projection of the auger weldment into the burnpot has simply burned away, exposing the joint of the brunpot weldment, which wouldnt normally be seen. most of the ones we've seen are in situations where the burnpot weldment had those 5 little holes at the bottom....Im guessing the introduction of oxygen down there causes increased heat due to combustion low in the buirnpot where it wouldnt normally be, and the metal nipple projecting from the burnpot wledment simply wears away.


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## goatman-68 (Dec 10, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> most of the ones we've seen are in situations where the burnpot weldment had those 5 little holes at the bottom....Im guessing the introduction of oxygen down there causes increased heat due to combustion low in the buirnpot where it wouldnt normally be, and the metal nipple projecting from the burnpot wledment simply wears away.



I will have to check to see if I have the 5 holes in mine. Was this a change they did when they went to direct drive from the chain drive?? I have noticed on my stove that when it is burning at somewhat of a low flame that it is actually burning (in) the auger tube probably an inch or so. Is this normal, or could this be due to the extra holes??

Thanks


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

I know mine has cracked.


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## Dr_Drum (Dec 10, 2009)

If it's metal it can be welded or brazed. Call a good local welder to come take a look. He can probably weld it up, grind it smooth and you'd never know it was repaired, and you may save a ton of cash. In my opinion, you're getting screwed.
Mike -


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

Dr_Drum said:
			
		

> If it's metal it can be welded or brazed. Call a good local welder to come take a look. He can probably weld it up, grind it smooth and you'd never know it was repaired, and you may save a ton of cash. In my opinion, you're getting screwed.
> Mike -



Already been screwed? Warranty repair costing $1140. I should have just bought a new stove like and Englander would have been cheaper and burning by now!

I then could have taken the Harman and put it through the original dealers window!


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## Shane (Dec 10, 2009)

Sounds like you got the shaft.  This is a huge problem in the industry and seems to particularly affect pellet stoves.  I think it's due to the high rate of repair and the tendancy for pellet stove repairs to take up more time than their wood and gas counterparts.  Personally I think manufacturers should just step up in cases like this.  It's a lot less burden on them financially speaking, and transfers the customers anger toward the dealer that didn't perform rather than the manufacturers brand.  Manufacturers already dump the vast majority of advertising and brand building costs onto their dealers anyway.


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

Shane said:
			
		

> Sounds like you got the shaft.  This is a huge problem in the industry and seems to particularly affect pellet stoves.  I think it's due to the high rate of repair and the tendancy for pellet stove repairs to take up more time than their wood and gas counterparts.  Personally I think manufacturers should just step up in cases like this.  It's a lot less burden on them financially speaking, and transfers the customers anger toward the dealer that didn't perform rather than the manufacturers brand.  Manufacturers already dump the vast majority of advertising and brand building costs onto their dealers anyway.



Not really mad at the dealer, more so at the guy who saw dollar signs when he picked up my stove and Harman. I have been nothing but polite to the dealer and know that they did not sell the stove but on the other hand don't what to eat the bill for something that should be covered under warranty. I told them up front that I was willing to pay something within reason, the bill I have is not within reason in borders on insane! On top of that I have to pay the service guy up front and wait for Harman to reimburse me and was told it would take 2-3 weeks. I am someone who is struggling to pay my bills and keep food on the table, and my wife had to leave her job 4 yrs ago because she can no longer work and fighting the government to get disability. Now my problem is how am I going to heat my house, soon I will run out of oil and I bought 4 tons of pellets to heat the house with and that oil would have lasted until spring. I now have two things I will not recommend Harman and Breeding & Day Inc!


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## littlesmokey (Dec 11, 2009)

Is it a full moon? I have that creapy feeling. Just an idea...... go to the good guy dealer who did the repair referral, right? Say the stove is the only heating source you have, can he do anything to help, ...like a loaner...... Once installed, you can take your time and settle the matters with the "service" guy. Tell the dealer to take it up with the tech he referred you to.

Now I feel ashamed.  :red:  :sick:  :red:  Bad smokey, bad bad burner.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 11, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> I know mine has cracked.



sorry, not a crack...worn metal......if you dissassemble it, you'll see what i mean.


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## swalz (Dec 11, 2009)

Well the service place said I can come pick up the stove and they would nock off $240 the delvery fee. Get this they said I would need to put the stove back together :exclaim:  They said for weight reasons they were going to assemble it when they delvered it, the dealer owner is going to be contacting the service company Monday. So they said it was going to cost $240 for for the delvery because they would have to assemble it back together so what was the $240 charge for to pick it up and the 5.5 hours to repair the stove? I would think that if you were to repair somthing that putting it back together should be part of the repair.


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## imacman (Dec 11, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> ...... I would think that if you were to repair somthing that putting it back together should be part of the repair.



I haven't followed the thread completely, but if you gave them the stove still assembled, then you absolutely should get it back the same way.  If you DID have it partially disassembled, then I could see them giving it back to you the same way.

If you gave it to them assembled, and their trying to give it back for you to finish, that's just bullshirt.


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## swalz (Dec 11, 2009)

macman said:
			
		

> swalz said:
> 
> 
> 
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Only thing that was off the stove was the tailpipe could not disconnect from pipe. Put in a complaint with the BBB and have a complaint # for Consumer Protection Agency and will be sending in the paper work when I get done filling it out. Then I am going to look for every review site that I can give these guys a negative review.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 11, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> macman said:
> 
> 
> 
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I am willing to allow that there are two sides to every story, but as a dealer, I am AMAZED at this. The XXV isnt the easiest unit to put back together, let alone make sure its sealed, etc....and to charge what they want to charge AND give you the BS excuse that dissassembed its lighter is an insult to your intelligence! My 2cents here would have been to get with the regional marketing guy for Harman in your area and let him solve the problem. Ok, so the original dealer no longer sells harman....ok, fine, then let the marketing guy find another dealer who would do the work! That dealer could lobby Harman for more money, given the travelling time, and the dealer would have TRAINED personnel, rather than some crook who is obviously taking advantage of this situation. 

Also, recall reading here somewhere about paying the bill and then "pulling back" the charges? Be careful of this, as it can be constituted as fraud, which might be more serious than the overcharging that the service shop is doing (noone can tell then what to charge, high prices are their perogative- not illegal, just not good business sense)

As I stated earlier, theres alot of 'woulda, coulda, shoulda" in this travesty......Im sure the OP would have done different had he had a chance of a do-over, such as getting quotes, maybe dealing with the marketing guy, etc. I also cannot blame Harman here very much, in that the folks doing the work are a private concern, not connected with Harman. 

Also, dont forget to replace the tailpipe gasket when re-installing!


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## swalz (Dec 11, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> swalz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Harman Rep was involved and I just found out they laid him off, the dealer is requesting more money from Harman for the service.  This is the only dealer that is in my area, all the others listed on the site are to far and can't help. So I am at the mercy of the dealer and Harman here.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 11, 2009)

well, if they laid one off, there's another....who is that? Or are you telling me that there is no representation in your area? As for other dealers, how far is "too far"? What area of the country are you in?


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## swalz (Dec 11, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> well, if they laid one off, there's another....who is that? Or are you telling me that there is no representation in your area? As for other dealers, how far is "too far"? What area of the country are you in?



The one that had certified Harman techs was about 80 miles away when I mapped out the directions the others were around 40 miles away and use  third party service companies also and when I called them I was around 50 or so miles from the companies they used. I think the other two have some sort of agreement with them because they only use them and no one else. One of the other service companies from the other dealer did call and to see where I was at but said that I was just to far. The Rep was just let go and the dealer was trying to find out who the new one is to get in contact with him or her. I will have to ask if they received a response back from the new Rep yet.


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## swalz (Dec 11, 2009)

just checked Harman's site and they are listing 3 more dealers and the one that had the service techs is now missing? I would hope that when dealing with the rep he would have informed me of a dealer that was in my area that provided service, I did ask him and he told me there was none but the one I am dealing with. One of them must be new since where it is listed on the mapp did not have a stove shop there before, it is down the street from my old job and I never saw them and I would have driven by them serveral times.


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## smalltown (Dec 11, 2009)

swaltz I know it's no immediate help to you, but after reading other reports about Harmon's lousy service record and especially your problems I am ever so glad that we did not buy a Harmon stove. Originally my wife was really interested in a Harmon Advance. We were told how great the Harman's were: "top of the line, bottom feed etc.". We finally bought a Quad Castile standalone and have been very happy with it after learning just how to run and maintain it.
We all realize these are machines and will break down and need occasional repairs, and all dealers are not the same. I am sure there are very competent and knowledgeable Harmon dealers out there, but you would think that Harmon would realize the damage this is doing to the Harmon logo. Just imagine other Forum readers following this posting and all those who find your problem while searching for information prior to purchasing, and will decide not to buy a Harmon stove.

Best of luck with your problem and shame on Harmon for not resolving the issue to your satisfaction by now!


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## littlesmokey (Dec 11, 2009)

I'd still go with the position that the stove they picked up is the stove you want to pick up in the same condition, that is assembled. Take the sheriff and get everything in writing. Do not pay them a cent, even for the original pick up. Let him come after you with well documented charges, and let him know consumer protection will get a copy of everything.


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## mnkywrnch (Dec 11, 2009)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> I'd still go with the position that the stove they picked up is the stove you want to pick up in the same condition, that is assembled. Take the sheriff and get everything in writing. Do not pay them a cent, even for the original pick up. Let him come after you with well documented charges, and let him know consumer protection will get a copy of everything.


Agreed 100%!


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## swalz (Dec 12, 2009)

mnkywrnch said:
			
		

> littlesmokey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had a thought like they screwed me maybe I could do the same to them. I never signed anything so I was wondering if I had them bring the stove back to the house then show them the door if i would get in trouble? My wife got mad at me we I suggested it but they have no proof that I authorised the repair.


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## MButkus (Dec 12, 2009)

Small Claims court is for the COUNTY & STATE the business is in.  So you have to go to court in that area.   If the dealer sold you the item.. you could go after the dealer.
Max in N.J. is $2000, I don't know other states.  But expect to spend a day out of work for the court date.
I don't know if you go after the warranty, the dealer can be involved... autos are different.  That would be like going after Walmart for a bad TV withing the warranty period.
Maybe check with Judge Judy !

Harman
352 Mountain House Road
Halifax, PA 17032


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## Lousyweather (Dec 12, 2009)

smalltown said:
			
		

> swaltz I know it's no immediate help to you, but after reading other reports about Harmon's lousy service record and especially your problems I am ever so glad that we did not buy a Harmon stove. Originally my wife was really interested in a Harmon Advance. We were told how great the Harman's were: "top of the line, bottom feed etc.". We finally bought a Quad Castile standalone and have been very happy with it after learning just how to run and maintain it.
> We all realize these are machines and will break down and need occasional repairs, and all dealers are not the same. I am sure there are very competent and knowledgeable Harmon dealers out there, but you would think that Harmon would realize the damage this is doing to the Harmon logo. Just imagine other Forum readers following this posting and all those who find your problem while searching for information prior to purchasing, and will decide not to buy a Harmon stove.
> 
> Best of luck with your problem and shame on Harmon for not resolving the issue to your satisfaction by now!



I dont think this is specifically a Harman issue, rather more a "perfect storm" of issues......the dealer is the one who actually fixes the units, not Harman. most of the issues you seem to have, regrettably, are issues with the crook who has the stove currently, and they arent a harman dealer, right? As for Quad.....yep, a VERY good series of stoves there.....BUT, Quad and harman are owned by the same parent compant, HHT. Guess what? Same warrantee, and requirements of their dealers.


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## smalltown (Dec 12, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> smalltown said:
> 
> 
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> ...



Lousyweather your position is well stated! But from a PR standpoint Harmon is going to take a hit on this issue. 
I know HHT owns Harmon and Quad, but I have read that on the Quad side of the house you can deal with Quad directly wereas Harmon deals with its customers at arms length only through dealers.


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## minnow (Dec 12, 2009)

MButkus said:
			
		

> Small Claims court is for the COUNTY & STATE the business is in.  So you have to go to court in that area.   If the dealer sold you the item.. you could go after the dealer.
> Max in N.J. is $2000, I don't know other states.  But expect to spend a day out of work for the court date.
> I don't know if you go after the warranty, the dealer can be involved... autos are different.  That would be like going after Walmart for a bad TV withing the warranty period.
> Maybe check with Judge Judy !
> ...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not true.  Here in NYS, you can sue the party either where you live or in the jurisdiction of where the defendant lives.


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## swalz (Dec 12, 2009)

Can I get some help from a couple of Harman Techs?

I would like if you can write a letter and send to me in a email what the time to do the replacement of the Feeder Weldement would be on average and why you would not bring back the stove in parts and assemble when you get to the customers site. I have the letter written up for Consumer Protection Agency and would like to attach it to the letter to help out with my case. I already have the case number so I have already started the process they are just waiting to receive the information to proceed the investigation. 

Please PM me and I will give you my email  to send to.


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## imacman (Dec 12, 2009)

minnow said:
			
		

> Not true.  Here in NYS, you can sue the party either where you live or in the jurisdiction of where the defendant lives.



Minnow, how can you say "not true", when you live in a different state?  Do you know the laws in Delaware and Penn. ?

And unless the law in NY has changed since I went to Small Claims some years back, even in NY, you have to sue the person in the jurisdiction that THEY live in or their business is headquartered in.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 12, 2009)

smalltown said:
			
		

> Lousyweather said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dont doubt that at all, smalltown......even though I still stand by my position that most of the angst here wasnt caused by Harman, but the outfit who is supposedly repairing the unit, and their very high "pricing structure" (*cough*)......We dont sell Quad, so cant comment on their support or lack thereof at all.


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## mlwschultz (Dec 14, 2009)

FWIW, I had a Harman dealer (same one we purchased stove from & they installed the stove) come out to look at our Harman XXV stove Saturday because the squeaking was driving us nuts!  The squeaking turned out to be an arm in the back by the chain (which was too tight).  He did some adjustments on that & they will do more in the shop.  He looked at the end of the auger tube & said we have a hole there (looks like a crack to me).  He said this is caused by the lowest row of burn pot holes & is a problem in the late 2007 & 2008 stoves.  It's apparently a known defect, but the dealer can't fix it until the hole is evident.  Our dealer is picking up the stove today, will replace the auger tube or whatever the fix is (some kit they have) and will close up those holes by welding them in.  Then return the stove to us Wednesday.  Harman is paying for everything except the $55 service call charge for Saturday.  

If this is the same problem you're having with your stove - it's covered by Harman.  This is a problem on all models of Harman in that time frame, not just the XXV.


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## swalz (Dec 14, 2009)

mlwschultz said:
			
		

> FWIW, I had a Harman dealer (same one we purchased stove from & they installed the stove) come out to look at our Harman XXV stove Saturday because the squeaking was driving us nuts!  The squeaking turned out to be an arm in the back by the chain (which was too tight).  He did some adjustments on that & they will do more in the shop.  He looked at the end of the auger tube & said we have a hole there (looks like a crack to me).  He said this is caused by the lowest row of burn pot holes & is a problem in the late 2007 & 2008 stoves.  It's apparently a known defect, but the dealer can't fix it until the hole is evident.  Our dealer is picking up the stove today, will replace the auger tube or whatever the fix is (some kit they have) and will close up those holes by welding them in.  Then return the stove to us Wednesday.  Harman is paying for everything except the $55 service call charge for Saturday.
> 
> If this is the same problem you're having with your stove - it's covered by Harman.  This is a problem on all models of Harman in that time frame, not just the XXV.



The problem I have is there is no stove shops around me with Harman Techs, I don't understand why they can sell the stoves and have no techs. They will get the parts but you have to do the work, If I was looking for a stove today and found this out I would not buy a Harman since they are not standing behind their product.


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## alexdrozd (Dec 16, 2009)

Swalz, any new info on this mess?


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## swalz (Dec 16, 2009)

ssman said:
			
		

> Swalz, any new info on this mess?



Need the stove back getting very cold here, the service company said they would deliver it and install for a final price of $900 after the BBB sent them a letter. I also put in a complaint with Consumer Protection Agency, not sure if I should call and cancel the complaint or let them contact them also, would like to pay less but they did drop the pickup fee.

Not to happy but better then $1140 or $900 to pick up myself and assemble, they will be installing it this Friday. Harman was no help they said the most they will pay for any repair is $450, no apologies for their dealers not having service techs. So I am going to be out $450 for something that is a known problem and should have been covered under warranty, I have to pay the $900 up front and wait to be reimbursed from Harman so I am rearranging my bills and paying what I can with American Express card, that is the only card I have and they don't take it. All I have to say it better work for what I am spending and I won't be giving them any more money to fix if it doesn't. Only good thing is I have a side job this week that I will make $300 or more, already have 4 hrs into it and will most likely spend another 6 hrs to fix all the problems so that will help. I could bill more but I treat my customers fair and they keep coming back, I just had to turn down a lot of work and give it to other people since I have not had the time this past year to do it. Thinking of getting a service license again and start doing side work again.


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## Bkins (Dec 16, 2009)

I am glad a end is in sight. although not a good end.  I would be filing a complaint with both places again against Harman.  It is retarded that you are going to have to put out another $450 to correct a problem with their stove.  I would not be satisfied with any resolution that would have me paying anything to repair the stove.  You bought it from a Harman dealer and the Harman stove company should make it right.  A BBB complaint against Harman would be the way I would go.  Company's don't want a BBB complaint against them and will do most anything to make it go away.  You have been put through the ringer and been without heat for way to long.  It is not your fault that the next nearest dealer, and their service company, is so far away.

Bkins


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## dobie daddy (Dec 16, 2009)

yep. that is total BS.


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## swalz (Dec 18, 2009)

Stove is  back and burning right now, they brought it back with the sides, top and door off. They were here for about 1.5 hrs to install, while they were here I was checking everything over and found the right front bolt were the leveling foot is is broke. I had them write that it was broke on the invoice and called the dealer to see if they will replace under warranty, they said they are sending another under warranty. I do have a smell while it is burning so I am going to look for exhausts leaks if it doesn't go away.  May be in the elbow, was trying to twist it off to send the tailpipe with the stove before i notice it was sealed right to the tailpipe.


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## littlesmokey (Dec 18, 2009)

Glad to hear it is back and running. Keep following through with the complaints. I personally would contact Harman and ash how they are going to handle things before making it public, but encourage them to drop the service contractor flat. He is a crook and will just continue to reflect badly on Harman. The double dipping contractor is the one I would spend my energy going after.


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