# Landscape adhesive



## muncybob (Mar 17, 2017)

We installed a paver walkway which involves 5 steps up a sloping hillside. Each step has a concrete tread on the face of the step with pavers behind it. We initially used a hardscape glue from Lowes and eventually each tread became loose. I then tried a thick bed of mortar...same result. I'm not sure if frost heave has something to do with this.

Has anyone used something called CT1? Reviews seem to be positive and a You Tube video of breakaway testing showed it held better than several other brands.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 18, 2017)

I don't know if it is the best thing for your application..i have had great luck with Gator Block XP adhesive.  It is made for pavers and damp surfaces.

http://www.alliancegator.com/products/binding-agents/gator-block-bond-xp-low-voc/


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## muncybob (Mar 19, 2017)

1000 psi holding after 7 days....I'm sold!  Thanx!!


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 19, 2017)

You're welcome.  It is the only thing holding my limestone mantel on my hearth. 

I had to buy it at a speciality mason shop.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2017)

It's a design flaw in your stairs, now all you can do is minimize the problems.  Mortar is not glue, it is a shim designed to fill the uneven gaps between natural materials, held in place by gravity.  Your risers should overlap the back of your treads to prevent water getting into the joint behind, but it sounds like you butted the tread up to the riser, instead.

In these cases, using pure Portland, not mixed with sand into a mortar, will offer somewhat better holding power.  But, this is just going to be a regular maintenance item, for you.  I have the same problem here, a former owner put in flagstone patios with numerous bluestone steps built the same way.  I'm out there lifting and re-setting a few every few years.

Personally, is avoid anything that's going to be too difficult to clean off the mating surfaces when it fails, which it will do, based on the history you've given.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2017)

Here's mine, for reference.  Are yours like this?  These were done about fifteen years ago, and most have popped at least once since then.  The problem is the grout behind the tread expands and shrinks seasonally, and then things like seeds and ice work their way in when the grout shrinks.  Slow, but inevitable.


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## muncybob (Mar 19, 2017)

Sorta....the bluestone tread overhangs the riser like yours but the area behind the tread consists of pavers that lead to the next riser. I guess it's a similar problem with a different design. The bluestone risers have a dry stack look although they are held together with some landscape glue.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2017)

I like that look a lot.  In terms of failing it looks like it would behave like that series of steps in my third photo.  There, moisture gets into the mortar behind the big bluestone tread, and slowly pushes it out.  No adhesive on mine, fully mortared.

People like to think stone is forever, but it requires constant maintenance.  I have a mason on-site maybe one week every year, doing various repairs.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 19, 2017)

I have a crude retaining wall of rocks...some pretty big, that is tipping.  I'd need machinery to tweak it back.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 20, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I like that look a lot.  In terms of failing it looks like it would behave like that series of steps in my third photo.  There, moisture gets into the mortar behind the big bluestone tread, and slowly pushes it out.  No adhesive on mine, fully mortared.
> 
> People like to think stone is forever, but it requires constant maintenance.  I have a mason on-site maybe one week every year, doing various repairs.


Interesting.  I would have thought the same as well.

I have heard of people finishing concrete below grade and then placing pavers and stone on top to give that stone look.  Just a bit of stone dust to settle everything.  My boss did this with a concrete pad on his driveway...says no issues or maintenance.

Of course, you could always use the forms and make the concrete look like pavers.


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## Ashful (Mar 21, 2017)

The problem with pavers is as much from above as below.  Seeds, whether it be grass or weeds, eventually work into the cracks.  I have several flagstone patios here, and they are all mortared onto concrete slabs below, so not entirely like your boss's paver driveway.  Each year, I have one or two joints to chisel out and redo, mostly from water getting in and popping a joint loose.  If I don't keep up with the failing joints year to year, eventually an entire flagstone will pop loose from our constant freeze/thaw cycles.

Being a few hours south of you, our normal winter weather is just above freezing most days (eg. mid-30F's) and below freezing most nights (eg. 20F), all winter long.  The daily freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw cycling is hell on masonry, much worse than staying frozen most of the winter.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 21, 2017)

muncybob said:


> Sorta....the bluestone tread overhangs the riser like yours but the area behind the tread consists of pavers that lead to the next riser. I guess it's a similar problem with a different design. The bluestone risers have a dry stack look although they are held together with some landscape glue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice feature ... hope you can find a solution that gives a bit more longevity between repairs!


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## Dobish (Mar 21, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> I have a crude retaining wall of rocks...some pretty big, that is tipping.  I'd need machinery to tweak it back.


nah, you can do it by hand


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## muncybob (Mar 22, 2017)

I think I'm gonna try the Gator Block and hope I never have to remove the stuff(might need a jackhammer). Got an email from them on local suppliers.


...what, no comment on my little black friend??  

I'm not much of a cat person(we love our dogs though) but this guy is really cool. He goes for walks with the dogs sometimes 2+ miles through the woods, is right there at supper time and wants some dog food too and runs up to greet me when I pull into the parking area home from work. Truly a cat that thinks he's a dog.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 22, 2017)

Unique kitty.  I'm looking at mine now, asleep in front of the insert with only glowing coals.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 22, 2017)

muncybob said:


> I think I'm gonna try the Gator Block and hope I never have to remove the stuff(might need a jackhammer). Got an email from them on local suppliers.
> 
> 
> ...what, no comment on my little black friend??
> ...



You want a comment?  Get a dog.  

If you had to remove, I'd say big torch and a scraper.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 22, 2017)

muncybob said:


> ...what, no comment on my little black friend??


Off topic but ....
We have four cats here ... our black one looks like he is wearing a tux with his white chest, his sis is a calico.  They, their siblings, and their Momma stayed at our house as kittens cause Momma was a stray.  The homeowners who were originally feeding her had to open up their lodge farther north ... brought the whole bunch home due to owls in the backyard.  Sibs and Mom went to the animal shelter and we ended up with these two because the kids wanted them.  Daughter tried to take them with her when she moved but they were very unhappy in town.  These two figured our old dog was "Dad" and would snuggle up to him.
The orange cat, Garfield, looks like his namesake.  He was a semi-feral cat who decided he liked our house better.  Tried to return a few times but "the cat came back."  When his owners moved, they figured we should just keep him.
The long haired cat is my daughters rescue when she was going to university.  Since she's still at home, he is too.

Then there is the German Shepherd ... a rescue too.


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## Fish On (Mar 26, 2017)

It's all what's under the pavers that matters! 

Pavers and stone work are the finish product and a lot of people rush to get it done. Not saying who ever did your job did that. 

I do walkways all the time and I can't tell you how many people don't understand the prep work before the finish product. There always surprised when they see the pile of pack that is huge and they are like, where's all that going!


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## muncybob (Mar 29, 2017)

i understand the prep work comment, we put a lot of work into that. I'm guessing they are getting loose from frost heave and the fact that only about half the tread is secured to rock under it. If this adhesive doesn't do the trick I may try putting rebar into the underside and cementing that into the ground.

LG, cool that you have rescue buddies, both cats and the 2 dogs along with 1 of our horses are all rescue. It's the only way we'll have any pets in the future.


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