# Is stucco non-combustable?



## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

Can anyone suggest a material I can cover a cinderblock wall with that would be non-combustable and low-cost?  I want to tuck my woodstove up close to the basement wall but would like the wall to be "finished".

I've covered sheetrock walls with drywall mud and textured it; which was cheap and easy.  But I ended up painting that.

Would stucco be non-combustable?


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 20, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> Can anyone suggest a material I can cover a cinderblock wall with that would be non-combustable and low-cost?  I want to tuck my woodstove up close to the basement wall but would like the wall to be "finished".
> 
> I've covered sheetrock walls with drywall mud and textured it; which was cheap and easy.  But I ended up painting that.
> 
> Would stucco be non-combustable?


Stucco is made from the same material that cinder blocks are made from, so yes, it is non-combustable.
Another more decorative option to put on the wall behind your stove would be faux stone or brick, also non-combustable.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

> Another more decorative option to put on the wall behind your stove would be faux stone or brick, also non-combutable.



I was considering stucco because it may be cheaper than going with the porcelain tile I put under the stove.  I thought of just continuing up the wall with the tile but funds are tight after stove & liner.


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## LLigetfa (Jan 20, 2012)

Assuming the cinderblock to be an exterior wall, you could be sinking a lot of heat into it.  You may want to consider a second skin with an air gap for insulation.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm thinking of stuccoing behind my woodstove - and possibly the rest of my basement wall.   Behind my stove the stucco would be right on the cinderblock wall, the rest I would stucco over foam insulation.

Questions - where do you find premixed stucco?  I could not find large quantities on the Home Depot or Lowes websites.  They just had the smaller patch buckets. 

Next, I gather that you put a basecoat of some sort before the final stucco, but I don't find much for details on this.  What material is used for the base?

Can you stucco right over the foam insulation?  Or do I need to put up board or sheetrock first?  

I imagine I would have to put up that metal mesh, how far off does it have to sit from whatever is under it or can the mesh be flat to the surface?  How far apart does the mesh fasteners need to be, every 16 inches?  Every 6 inches?


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## tcassavaugh (Jan 20, 2012)

for now, for a quick and easy, you could go to your local hardeware stove and get a shield of an appropriate size you could put up behind the stove. i use one under the stove upstairs instead of building a hearth.  you could paint it and put some spacers behind it to create an air space/shield which would allow you to move your stove a little closer. just a thought......something quick, easy and cheap.

cass


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## pen (Jan 20, 2012)

Why not just parge the wall and then paint it?

pen


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## madison (Jan 20, 2012)

I'ld research for something that may reflect the radiant heat away from the cinder block-- which will suck up a lot of the heat.  would,foil, sheet metal or mirrors be too weird - or work?


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2012)

Brief over view

lathe over foam and block
no premix, buy bags and mix yourself available lowes and hd
first coat over lath scratch coat leave rough or broom rough
finish coat texture to what you want
could be colored to desired shade

option
hang blue/green board over all
finish with drywall compound in place of stucco
tuscany plaster effect lowes has directions to do this
add coloring to compound and glaze over that for depth and added color
wont have to deal with cement and will give you a similar appearance
lighter cleaner to work with


not sure what effect youre looking for finish wise
I added sections of face brick so it would look more industrial
as if some plaster fell off and exposed brick


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## BobUrban (Jan 20, 2012)

How much wall space are we talkin'? If it is just the hearth back and not a whole wall I would imagine you could find tons of options that are nicer looking than stucco - on the cheap!

If you are anything like me and frugile(I am assuing here) look on CL, local tile store, cultured stone, etc...  Even plain ole Bricks like I used.  Although mine are 110yr old pavers, I did get them off CL for a reasonable price.  

Many people have over bought for a project and have 1/2 a box of tiles, cultured stones etc. and they may even give them to you to get them out of their garage.  If CL does not work ask tile and stone stores/installers if they have some overrun or off colored and dicontinued items.   Again, can be had on the cheap if you do not need a ton of them to cover a big area.  Just some ideas.  

I have pics of my brick hearth and fire back if you are interested?


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## Jags (Jan 20, 2012)

Possibly look at products from Drivit or Sto mfgs.  They have many options and are the new version of "Stucco".


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

What does parge mean?

I assume by second skin you mean to cover with furring strips and sheathing such as drywall or cement board.

That's a good idea for trying Craigslist for "remnants" from tile &/or masonry projects.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 20, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> What does parge mean? *Skim coat the wall with  mortar.*
> 
> I assume by second skin you mean to cover with furring strips and sheathing such as drywall or cement board.
> 
> That's a good idea for trying Craigslist for "remnants" from tile &/or masonry projects.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

When you say lathe over foam and block do you mean sans mesh or does the lathe merely provide a gap between mesh and foam so that mesh is suspended in the stucco?

What is blue/green board?

Is drywall compound non-combustable?  I would like to tuck my stove up to the wall as close as possible.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

> What does parge mean? Skim coat the wall with mortar.



Yes!  Parging is what I had in mind!  Now can you paint the parge without ruining the non-combustableness of it?  Or would it be better to dye it?


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## pen (Jan 20, 2012)

With the fisher, the concrete wall behind the stove would literally get so hot that you'd get burned if you touched it, yet the paint never showed any signs of trauma.  That old stove never had a heat shield in the back.  If you stoves have a heat shield (like where a blower would be mounted) then you should be fine with any paint that would be OK w/ being on that surface.

You could try dying it, never done it myself but it might look nice.  

Heck, isn't plaster non-combustible?  Wonder if you could just plaster it then paint it?  Not sure if plaster would stick well to concrete or not, just thinking out loud.

pen


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## thetraindork (Jan 20, 2012)

my whole house is covered in stucco. the stuff is cool! great fire retardant and has really decent insulation properties.


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## fossil (Jan 20, 2012)

If you want to, you can just use drywall mud (joint compund) to parge the wall surface.  A few thin coats, sanded between coats, and it'll look just like a drywall wall.  Paint as desired.  Done.  Rick


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## Jags (Jan 20, 2012)

fossil said:
			
		

> If you want to, you can just use drywall mud (joint compund) to parge the wall surface.  A few thin coats, sanded between coats, and it'll look just like a drywall wall.  Paint as desired.  Done.  Rick



Very true assuming that moisture is not in play.  The other products that I spoke of can be tinted (no paint) and are a cementious base that can be directly applied to brick/cement, etc.  They are intended for exterior use, so moisture should not be an issue to them.


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## southbalto (Jan 20, 2012)

The few times I've parged up walls I've skipped the foam.  Just secure diamond lath to the wall using nails apply the cement.  You might want to find a stone/brick/block yard instead of HD/Lowes.  They will have premixed colored cement.  Mix 3parts sand 1 part cement and your good to go.

Apply a rough (scratch) coat and come back the next day with a final skim coat.  I'm sure there are a bunch of youtube videos up that explain how to apply.


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## southbalto (Jan 20, 2012)

That's just it.....I would avoid putting any drywall or foam behind the stove if the end goal is to reduce the rear clearance.  Stick to steel (dimond lathe) and cement.


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## LLigetfa (Jan 20, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> I assume by second skin you mean to cover with furring strips and sheathing such as drywall or cement board.


Yes, anything non-combustible, strapped to the wall also with non-combustible material such as resilient channel or metal 2x2 studs.  The main point is to have an air gap that acts as insulation to stop so much heat from soaking into the block wall.

Some stucco may have synthetic materials that would make them unsuitable in a high-heat situation.  As well, lot of tile backer boards these days have styrofoam beads or cellulose fiber in them.  Maybe you could find a nice metal plate and acid etch a pattern in it, or maybe some old tin ceiling tiles.


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## fossil (Jan 20, 2012)

If the wall behind your woodstove is concrete block, period, then you have no combustibles behind your woodstove, so clearance is a non-issue.  You can put it as close as you want.  Drywall compound is non-combustible.  You don't need any sort of drywall or lath or wall shield or anything, unless you just want to make the project more complicated.  Whatever you do, don't use any combustible materials or else all bets are off and you're right back to the appliance manufacturer's required rear CTC.  Rick


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## fossil (Jan 20, 2012)

Why do we have two threads in two different forums going about the same subject?   :roll:  Pick one to survive, Jaque, 'cause I'm gonna zap one or the other of them.  Rick


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

OK, I did some research.  I am totally ignorant of the vocabulary so I can't really express myself very well, or understand what people are telling me - ugh!

I would like to finish the entire basement room that the woodstove is in.  For that portion directly behind the woodstove I would not put any combustable material behind it so . . . no foam behind stove.  In other areas of the room I CAN place foam and think it would be a good idea.  

The foam I had envisioned was pink but I see blue/green is common too and perhaps more appropriate for interior basements.  

The tuscan plaster is exactly what I had in mind.  I'm glad that paint is not considered combustable if applied to a non-combustable material.


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 20, 2012)

I posted on your other thread, but I see Fossil is getting an itchy delete finger.   LOL
I've been a stucco contractor for 20 years, I'll try and help you out if that's what you want to do.  However I don't want to start typing a post and get it deleted.

If you could post a picture of the wall you intent to stucco that would be helpfull.


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## fossil (Jan 20, 2012)

I'll try to merge the other thread with this one...that'll cure my finger itch for now.   %-P


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 20, 2012)

sorry Fossil.  I guess I came to this forum with the question whether stucco and/or drywall mud was suitable for non-combustable clearance.  Once that question was answered to my satisfaction, I thought the How-tos of stucco would be most appropriate in the DIY section.  

Thanks for merging the two.


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## fossil (Jan 20, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> ...Thanks for merging the two.



My pleasure.


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 21, 2012)

One thing I'll say is, foam covering your walls is not cheap, and I think you'd have problems nailing metal lath through the foam and getting it to secure to the cement blocks.  Gluing the foam to the block wall and using cloth mesh and acrylic primer is the way I would do it, but again, not cheap.  You did say you wanted some inexpencive solution didn't you?


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 22, 2012)

Carbon,

Thanks.  Yes - inexpensive.  I don't mind extra labor - it's just when something requires extra skill and/or knowlege that my home-improvement projects go south rapidly.

I suppose firring strips and batting would be cheaper than foam if you're doing it yourself and labor is no cost?  Or is there a better solution to insulating a basement wall?

I spent all day yesterday chiselling paint off the cinder block directly behind the hearth pad.  This will be the uninsulated section of wall.  Under the paint there was some sort of yellow powdery stuff.  I wire-brushed that as best I could, then scrubbed the wall with soapy water and a plastic bristle brush.  The water seemed to soak into the block.  Today I plan to prep with bonding agent and parge.  I am hoping to finish it kind of like that Tuscan plaster mentioned before.


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 22, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> Carbon,
> 
> Thanks.  Yes - inexpensive.  I don't mind extra labor - it's just when something requires extra skill and/or knowlege that my home-improvement projects go south rapidly.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you are on the right track Jaque, that's why I wanted to see a picture to see if you had paint or something on the wall that would prevent stucco from sticking properly. The bonding agent is also a good idea, what exactly are you using?


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 22, 2012)

The bonding agent is Quikrete's commercial grade Concrete Bonding Adhesive.  

Before pictures are in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/88948/

And in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/79535/

The mortar looks pretty good.  Just need to let it dry then off to the hardware store to get paint.  I'm hoping they can suggest some colors 'cuz I'm not the one to pick 'em out.  I've got a spare ceramic tile that I used for the hearth pad that I can bring in and pick some colors to match/compliment that.  When I lived in Eau Claire there was a hardware store that had a large sign over the paint section which stated: "Husbands must have signed permission slip to choose paint colors without wife present."


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't know about that sign, I don't put a lot of stock in my wife's ability to pick colors, let me tell you a couple stories.
My wife spent two months looking through interior design magazines and looking at paint samples picking out paint for our kitchen and dinning rooms, she finally settled on a 3 color combo, but when we started painting the walls with these colors we got about half way through painting the biggest wall she looked at the color, once it was on the wall, and decided she didn't like it and wanted to stop painting right then and there, and go re-tint the paint. It took all I could do to convince her we had to at least finish painting that one wall before we could go re-tinting any paint. In the end she kept the 3 colors, but she didn't like them,,, even though it was her choice and she had two months to come up with it.

On another occasion after doing some reno work in the bedroom (a new walk-in closet and new window), I had to paint the walls, so I took a couple old cans of different color paint and mixed them together so I would have enough to do the whole room. One was green and the other yellow and I ended up with greeny yellow color (duh). Well when she came home from work and looked at the color of the bedroom she hated it. I told her I just used what we had, and that the next time it needed re-painting she could get whatever color she wanted. She agreed, but wasn't happy. Also I wanted to put curtains across the opening to the walk-in closet instead of doors, she didn't care for that idea either. Then, a couple days later, she was flipping though one of her interior design mags, and saw a picture of a modern bedroom they were featuring and it had curtains on the walk-in closet, and wouldn't you know it, the bedroom color was an exact match to the greeny/yellow I had mixed up. Needless to say, we now have the curtains and she loves the bedroom color.  ;-) 

BTW I looked at the before picture in your second link and noticed something hanging above the mantle and the paraphernalia to the left hanging on the hooks, so I thought I'd show you a picture of what I have hanging above my door leading into my stove room.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey I like that lintel decoration!  I hope there's no dust collecting on that one.  I have a number of 'em and they're all shooters.  

I will be moving my thunderstick before I get the stove in place.  I doubt that constant exposure to such dry heat would be good for it.

The one in my picture is my deer gun.  Put two fawns in the freezer this year with it.  One taken on a very rainy day and another taken while I "snuck" up on it.  Both were coups that I was after for a number of years.  I don't necessarily get to hunt in areas were big bucks are accessible so I try to make the antlerless hunting a bit of a challenge.  To hunt all day in drizzle and rain with a flintlock then have it go off just like that is a satisfying experience.  Although I must admit on another rainy day of the season I ended the day with a fail to fire - wasn't aiming at quarry though, just emptying the gun for the day.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 23, 2012)

Oh, by the way, how long does the mortar need to dry before painting?


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm afraid it is mostly a dust collector now, although it got a lot of use in the past. We use to be caretakers on some property that belonged to a sportsman's association that included gun ranges, clubhouse and what not. They use to host a couple black powder shoots every year and after watching them have so much fun I decided to get my own Muzzle-loader. 
Often when we had company over they would see it hanging on the wall and ask if it really shoots, to which I would reply "sure does, you want to give it a try?". Almost everyone would take me up on the offer since very few people had ever had the opportunity to shoot a real old style flint lock before. I'd let them go through the whole routine loading the powder and packing the load themselves, and I'd always make sure they had an excess of powder in pan so they would get a good smoke show. ;-) Everyone always had a lot of fun.
When we started care-taking there the club was mostly run by black powder shooters who were (for the most part) a bunch of great old guys, but after 14 years a lot of them passed away or petered out and a group of other people (non black powder) dipsticks started to run the club and it was time to move on.

As for painting the mortar, if it is pure cement based mortar (no acrylic additives) it would be good to mist it with water and give it a couple days to cure at least. You want cement product to cure rather than dry. cement needs water to cure. Sometimes cement products can "dry" before they get a chance to cure properly, that's why it's good to mist them to aid the curing process. Then you really want to seal it well before applying your finish paint color, you could probably use your bonding agent as a sealer, and/or use a quality acylic paint sealer.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 23, 2012)

I misted it shortly after it set, but this morning it was looking fairly dry.  Is it too late to mist again?


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 23, 2012)

Keep misting it, the idea is to keep it moist during the curing (hydration) process. 
They say cement continues curing for years. If you were pouring a concrete wall you'd want to let it sit for a month or more, but for practical purposes with a thin parge like that a couple days should be good. Just make sure you seal it up good before painting it.

How about posting another picture of what you got so far.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 23, 2012)

> but for practical purposes with a thin parge like that a couple days should be good.



You're killing me!  You know I've got the stove sitting right next to the hearth pad in the basement, it's snowing out.  I've got about 3 cords of oak outside.  And I've gotta wait DAYS to paint?  AAAARGH!  I feel like a kid on December 22nd!



> Keep misting it, the idea is to keep it moist during the curing (hydration) process.



OK so once it dries I can re-wet it and still benefit.  Went home for lunch and misted it, and turned the fan off.  I'll post pix tonight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's too bad about the smokepole.  Although they seem like rather crude weapons they're not.  They may be primitive and simple but a good flintlock is definitely NOT crude.  When you can punch hole after hole into a 1.5" group at 100 yards that's dang good.  How did that one shoot for you?


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 25, 2012)

Carbon,

Here are some pictures of the project.  The one with the dark surface is freshly parged.  The one that is lighter is after the mortar has dried some.  I think I will set up the woodstove and let the mortar cure for a month then try my best to paint behind it while avoiding getting paint all over the stove.  And I'll continue misting the mortar for a week or so.

Is latex paint the best way to get the color I want (Tuscan plaster look)?  Based on how well the previous paint holds I think it's safe to say there would be no moisture problems.  Was that yellow powdery stuff a sealer?  I can't imagine it sealed water away from the paint very well.  It seemed to merely fill the pores of the concrete so the paint wouldn't soak in so deep.  

Also is the bonding agent in photo good to cover the mortar before painting or should I use something else?  Or just paint on the bare mortar?


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 25, 2012)

and picture of the drying parge and the bond agent.


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## Jags (Jan 25, 2012)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> Is latex paint the best way to get the color I want (Tuscan plaster look)?



You may want to look at American clay.  It is also inert, so it wont burn.  It will trowel on like the cement you troweled (kinda).
http://americanclay.com/landingpage/


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## Lumber-Jack (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm not familiar with that product (quikrete), but experience tells me that most of those products are basically the same generic acrylic based bonders diluted to different ratios. I always use this product Weldbond becuase it is the most reliable and one of the most concentrated products out there and can be used in all sorts of different applications. It makes a great wood glue, and bonding agent for cement products, and I know painters who have told me they have used it for primer sealer before painting. That's why I was suggesting if you have enough left you could use it as a sealer on your cement plaster wall before painting, although it looks you have a small container there and since you already used some you may not have enough left to get a really good seal coat and probably should use some proper paint primer coat as well. If you just paint it without sealing it properly the finish coat of paint will look patchy, just like your parge looks now, with some of the brick mortar lines coming through.
All I would do now is seal up the wall first with that quickrete diluted with water (just to use it up, unless you have another use for it), then a proper acrylic paint sealer, then paint whatever color you fancy.
That American clay product that Jags suggest would probably be a better way to give you that Tuscan plaster look you are going for, but I guarantee it will cost you more to do properly than what I'm suggesting, and will end up taking you longer to get the job finished. It all depends on how much time and money you want to throw at this project.
There are ways to achive those subtle color tones similar to Tuscon plaster using painting techniques as well, by using a rag or sponge to rub the wall with a slightly darker, or lighter, paint or stain after the wall has been painted. This works well with a textured wall like you have.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 26, 2012)

Carbon,

I'm pretty content with the texture I've got.  I think my biggest priority will be to get the light base-coat down to fill the micro-pores so it doesn't have that soaked-in look.  I'm not dealing with a large coverage area so I will probably use up the rest of that Quikrete bonder and maybe get some more it was only 5 or 6 bucks.  Then I'll raid the paint cabinet for any leftover white latex paints.  Then I'll go over that with my light-tinted basecoat.  Then if that has a sufficiently "satin" look I'll go over it with a darker glaze. 

I'm aware that the biggest risk would be if the parge is still too porous when I apply the dark glaze I won't be able to wipe it off the high spots.  

Thanks, you've been really helpful.


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