# Husqvarna and Echo beware!



## b33p3r (Aug 19, 2012)

Moral of the story...had a Husqvarna 435 which I bought from lowes. After 1 year to the day the piston/cylinder burned up rendering it useless. The burn up was diagnosed and pointed out to me by a friend who was in the small engine repair business for many years. No he wasn't a certified husqvarna dealer. He told me I that saw wasn't built for the amount of cutting I do. But I did talk to my local Husqvarna dealer and he informed me that I didn't mix the oil/gas correctly and that's why the saw burned up. The dealer never even saw the saw but he had the answer. I have always measured gas and oil to the ounce so I was a bit turned off by the dealers comment. I didn;t buy the saw from him so I didn't expect much. Not how it should be but that's the way it goes around here with customer service. 
    On a recommendation from my Small engine expert I bought an echo CS-550P from the same local dealer. (I'm trying to support the local businesses). After approx. 6 hours run time, the saw won't idle. Stalls out and has a hard time getting up to speed on WOT. Bring it back to the dealer and after 10 days now they still don't have a clue. I will be pulling the saw out of there come Tuesday(next day off from work).
   Moral of the story is: I have another echo dealer (20 miles away) that will do what it takes to get my saw in working order(thanks to my friend who was in the business). 
   Unfortunately I have a husqvarna saw that I paid good money for and will have to pay to get it working again even though it had a 2 year warranty because a shoddy dealer blew me off. Same dealer that can't get my echo saw working right. Husqvarna and echo should be careful who they qualify as a dealer.
    I won't mention the dealer name but if you are travelling on Rt.348 in Mt. Cobb and see a tractor dealer ....keep going. You may also want to do your homework on Husqvarna/Echo dealers before buying from them.


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2012)

What a shame.  Hope it works out for you.  Maybe there's a good Stihl dealer closer to home?  Might be time to trade in both saws.


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## DexterDay (Aug 19, 2012)

That is sad to hear. Without analysis on your Mix gas, he cant conclude that your mix was off? I would be ticked off about that too... The Echo should just need a tune. Something that a good qualified tech could do in very short order.

The dealer I purchase from is the only dealer that will do warranty work (same with my pellet stoves) and they are also Top rated dealers in my area. Both have trained and certified techs and always have to latest in equipment. 

I hope you get it all figured out. A warranty is something that should be stood behind. As long as the warranty work falls under warranty rules, it should be fixed without question.

(There was a member who smoked his new 562XP. The auto-tune ran lean and smoked the ring. It took a bit, but he got a new saw. A good dealer should fight for you!) The squeaky wheel gets the grease....


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## AKSHADOW (Aug 19, 2012)

Echos are good saws, but need to be tuned out of the box. They come way too lean from the factory - check this thread for some info, slightly different model though:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/145047.htm


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## BrotherBart (Aug 19, 2012)

Toss the Husky back in Lowe's lap. They sold it to you. With a warranty. Their problem. I have two of that saw's predecessors, the 142 that I run the crap out of with no problems. I figured they would blow up in a few months. Still getting it done five years later.

But I run 32:1 in everything and always will.


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## Jack Straw (Aug 19, 2012)

We have a local Stihl dealer that has many complaints, so it's not just Husky and Echo. I got my Echo from a local Mom and Pop dealer (really) who have a reputation for great service.


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## b33p3r (Aug 19, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I think Husky and echo are both good companies. I just think they need to be pickier about who qualifies as a dealer for their product.


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## b33p3r (Aug 19, 2012)

The dealer did tune my echo prior to handing it to me. He also informed me I may have to have it tuned again after it breaks in. That's why I brought it back when it wouldn't idle after 6 hours run time. Figured a quick tuning and I'b be back in action


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## firefighterjake (Aug 20, 2012)

There are good and bad dealers for just about every product out there . . . and while one person may have a great experience with Dealer A, another person may come in and have a horror story to tell. That said . . . while the tech may be able to suggest a possible reason for the break down over the phone, I would think they would at least ask some basic questions first (i.e. ask about the gas/oil mix) and take some time to actually inspect the saw before they render a final opinion . . . in other words my own dealer has given me some ideas of what might be an issue with a saw, but until I bring it in they don't pronounce their final diagnosis.


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## Nixon (Aug 20, 2012)

To the OP . Did you ever have to "tune " the carbs on either of thes saw yourself ? Or was it just gas them up ,and let it rip ?
To me a smoked p&c is a sign of lack of oil , lean run ,bad fuel and mix .  JMHO .


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## certified106 (Aug 21, 2012)

Bummer about the saw. I do think Husky gets a bad rap because places like Lowes sell saws with no dealer/warranty support. The local Stihl place around here will test the saws before selling them to make sure the carbs aren't running lean and then have you bring the saw back in a few weeks for a final adjustment. I have heard that quite a few of the Husky's coming from Lowes run a little lean and really need richened up right off the bat.


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## Danno77 (Aug 21, 2012)

It was mentioned above, but I'd be inclined to agree that many new makers are shipping saws too lean for hard work. danged EPA has everybody clinching their butts and tossing reason to the wind. I think that most manufacturers assume the experienced saw users will pop out their screwdriver and richer it up a tad and that less experienced saw users won't use their saw enough to notice the quicker wear.

I could be wrong, but it sure seems to be a theme.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 22, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> It was mentioned above, but I'd be inclined to agree that many new makers are shipping saws too lean for hard work. danged EPA has everybody clinching their butts and tossing reason to the wind. I think that most manufacturers assume the experienced saw users will pop out their screwdriver and richer it up a tad and that less experienced saw users won't use their saw enough to notice the quicker wear.
> 
> I could be wrong, but it sure seems to be a theme.


 
I agree. I had a hard starting cheapo poulan weed eater that didn't stay running. It would have been real easy to say it was junk. I richened the carb and it has run flawlessly for the past 3 years. I have even tried to kill it by keeping the same untreated ethanol fuel in it for up to 8 months without use.


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## Sprinter (Aug 22, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Toss the Husky back in Lowe's lap. They sold it to you. With a warranty. Their problem. I have two of that saw's predecessors, the 142 that I run the crap out of with no problems. I figured they would blow up in a few months. Still getting it done five years later.
> 
> *But I run 32:1 in everything and always will*.


Ever have any problems doing that, like fouled plugs?  I kinda like to put a little extra in, too, but 32 is a long way from 50.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 22, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Ever have any problems doing that, like fouled plugs? I kinda like to put a little extra in, too, but 32 is a long way from 50.


 
Factory plugs still in all of my saws. Including the 1991 Poulan/Partner. Along with Walmart 2-stroke oil. Folks just gotta do what feels right for them.


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## certified106 (Aug 22, 2012)

I run 93 octane and 40:1 in my saws. I have also richened them up just a tad.......


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## Sprinter (Aug 22, 2012)

certified106 said:


> I run 93 octane and 40:1 in my saws. I have also richened them up just a tad.......


 Well, if you guys are getting away with that much oil and not fouling things up, I guess it's okay to rich it up a little.

I'm going to run this by my dealer, but if it's true that manufacturers like Stihl and Husq (I've had both) intentionally ship 2-strokes too lean to meet epa standards, how would I know if it could benefit from a little richer mixture?


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## Highbeam (Aug 22, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Well, if you guys are getting away with that much oil and not fouling things up, I guess it's okay to rich it up a little.
> 
> I'm going to run this by my dealer, but if it's true that manufacturers like Stihl and Husq (I've had both) intentionally ship 2-strokes too lean to meet epa standards, how would I know if it could benefit from a little richer mixture?


 
Gonna need to learn how to tune your saw. It's not hard, youtube is your friend. They have adjustment screws making it very easy. Tune your saw per the instructions and if it works better than you benefit and if no change is made then you don't benefit. No damage in either case.

My current 2009 model motorcycle came very lean and I had to immediately tune the pilot circuit. This involved removing a pressed in plug and for access to the screws.


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## pen (Aug 22, 2012)

b33p3r, out of curiousity, what oil were you running?

For the amount of fuel I go through a year, I buy the small bottles of husqvarna oil that gets added to 1 gallon of gas. It contains stabilizer already.  In an average year I'll use about 5-6 bottles. 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_220373-572-2.6 OIL MIX_0__?productId=1166629 looks like lowes wants 2.98 a bottle for it! Ouch. Unless the price has significantly gone up in the last year, I paid 1.75 a bottle when I bought 6 at a time from my local dealer last fall.

I've had no mix related issues and the 5 guys I cut regularly with haven't had any either and they use the same husky oil.

It may cost a bit more but so far so good, so I stick with it. This saw is 6 years old and running the original plug.  Weedwacker (a stihl) is 16 years old and still on the original plug, still starts second pull.

pen


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2012)

Mix to the ratio dictated by the oil, not by what's labeled on the equipment.  That's what I've always been told, anyway.  If using Echo 50:1 oil, mix it 50:1.  Someone more eductated on this subject than any of us already figured out what works, no need to second guess them.  JMHO / YMMV.


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## pen (Aug 22, 2012)

Joful said:


> Mix to the ratio dictated by the oil, not by what's labeled on the equipment. That's what I've always been told, anyway. If using Echo 50:1 oil, mix it 50:1. Someone more eductated on this subject than any of us already figured out what works, no need to second guess them. JMHO / YMMV.


 
I think you have that backwards. If you buy oil in a small quantity and it says 50:1 on the container, they simply measured out the right amount of oil for X amount of gas to save you the time from measuring the oil out yourself.

Charts like this exist for a reason on the back of large bottles of 2 stroke oil. 







pen


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## Danno77 (Aug 22, 2012)

LoL, glad to hear I'm not the only one, BB. It helps keep the Mosquitos away...

Seriously, though, I've been using 40:1 recently and have had to retune all of my saws to run on that. The 170 doesn't like it, so I have to use 50:1 in it. Well, at least before my dad broke the danged choke lever and now I don't run it at all (where did I put that JB Weld, anyway?)


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## MasterMech (Aug 22, 2012)

Funny thing is I've never run a mix richer than 50:1. I'm currently running a mix that if you do the math, is 80:1. Been doing that for almost two years now and waiting for _something_ to happen. Then I can join the more oil is better crowd. Gotta say I'm likin' the hell out of no smoke and crisp throttle response, stuff is currently $1.45 a package (to mix 1 gal) retail.. My 4-Mix engines are loving the stuff too since they are notoriously picky about extra oil/carbon.


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## Ashful (Aug 23, 2012)

Nope, pen... I meant it as I typed it. Having some older equipment that requires 40:1 and even 32:1, in addition to some modern 50:1 equipment, I asked more than one saw shop what I should do. Mix to 32:1 for all, split the difference at 40:1, or keep multiple different gas cans? The answer was the same from every shop I asked: buy the 50:1 pre-measured bottles, and just mix 50:1 for all equipment. The oil is formulated to work that way.

I also buy oil in larger jugs, but it's always a name brand oil like Echo 50:1, so I just mix 2.6 oz./gal.

I guess I can't be sure this is right, but it seems to be a consensus among the equipment dealers I have asked. I suspect they know more about it than I do.


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## Highbeam (Aug 23, 2012)

Joful said:


> Nope, pen... I meant it as I typed it. Having some older equipment that requires 40:1 and even 32:1, in addition to some modern 50:1 equipment, I asked more than one saw shop what I should do. Mix to 32:1 for all, split the difference at 40:1, or keep multiple different gas cans? The answer was the same from every shop I asked: buy the 50:1 pre-measured bottles, and just mix 50:1 for all equipment. The oil is formulated to work that way.
> 
> I also buy oil in larger jugs, but it's always a name brand oil like Echo 50:1, so I just mix 2.6 oz./gal.
> 
> I guess I can't be sure this is right, but it seems to be a consensus among the equipment dealers I have asked. I suspect they know more about it than I do.


 
This would seem to imply that the oil is what determines the needed ratio. For example, your echo 50:1 oil should be mixed 50:1 to be used in all 2 stroke equipment. If you had bought amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil then you could mix it to 100:1 for all two stroke equipment. I understand your theory and have even heard it used before.

I'm not willing to risk my machine with this theory. The machine wants 50:1 ratio of oil to gas. The machine doesn't specify what brand. I don't believe that there is anything special about one brand of two stroke oil vs. another that would make it lube twice as well. Also, the producers of the two stroke oil don't have anything to lose if your mix ratio damages the engine but the machine manufacturer could face warranty claims.

For the record I mix one ratio for all engines even though the machines ask for 40:1 and 50:1. I choose the 40:1. My synthetic oil comes with graduations on the dispensing system that correspond with the chart that Pen posted.


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## Ashful (Aug 23, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> I'm not willing to risk my machine with this theory... For the record I mix one ratio for all engines even though the machines ask for 40:1 and 50:1. I choose the 40:1.


 
I think all of my machines are 50:1, except one that's 40:1 and one that's 32:1.  The pre-mix bottles I buy are 50:1, and I'm not going to bother doing the math to figure how to mix one 32:1.  If the 40:1 or 32:1 machines burn up... good riddance!  I can replace them with modern 50:1 machines, and continue *not* thinking about how much oil I run in them.


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## Highbeam (Aug 23, 2012)

Joful said:


> I think all of my machines are 50:1, except one that's 40:1 and one that's 32:1. The pre-mix bottles I buy are 50:1, and I'm not going to bother doing the math to figure how to mix one 32:1. If the 40:1 or 32:1 machines burn up... good riddance! I can replace them with modern 50:1 machines, and continue *not* thinking about how much oil I run in them.


 
You might be waiting a long time for those machines to grenade on 50:1. I wonder if they ever really needed 32:1. I don't buy those little premix bottles for a couple of reasons. I also don't buy antifreeze prediluted with water, or roundup ready to use. Math is fun!


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## Ashful (Aug 23, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> You might be waiting a long time for those machines to grenade on 50:1.


 
My point exactly.


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## mecreature (Aug 23, 2012)

I have 32, 40, 50 to 1 stuff. I have been using 50 to 1 as the mix in the last couple years.


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## b33p3r (Aug 29, 2012)

Followup: I brought my echo to a well recommended dealer last week. A bit of a ride from my house but better than getting lousy service from a dealer 3 miles away. 1-1/2 hours later they called me and said I have water in my fuel and signs of rust in or about the carb. due to the water. He also informed me that it is quite likely echo would not cover the work under warranty due to the water.
      Now my first thought was, *"why did the original dealer have my saw for 2 weeks and not realize there was water in the fuel?"*
      My second thought was "I'm an idiot", because I have left the fuel container out in the weather not covered. Went out and poured some fuel in a glass and sure enough....Water!
     Called the dealer back and told him I know it was my fault but fix the saw whether under warranty or not. Said it would be 150.00 if new carb needed. Well got called back today and was told the saw is ready and Echo "DID" cover it under warranty. I never expected that!
     Imagine that. Same gas can that I used with the husky so now I wonder if water in the fuel cooked my husky?
      Lesson learned! All fuel containers never to be left out in the weather. When I'm done cutting that go back under cover no matter what.
                   Thanks for all the replies!
 Some answers to previous questions:  I do use the manufacturers oil to mix with my fuel. The small bottles that you mix with 1 gallon of gas.
      I have never adjusted my carb settings other than tweaking the throttle. Never messed with the Hi-Lo because I didn't know how to set them. I had a friend explain the process to me just recently so I will give it a shot next time I feel it needs it...unless it's still under warranty. Don't want to void that by doing something else stupid.   Thanks again.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 29, 2012)

A couple lessons learned . . . never leave the gas can out in the rain . . . and continue to do business with the one place that treated you right since not only did they correctly diagnose the problem, but they went to bat with you to get the free work done under warranty.


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## b33p3r (Aug 29, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> A couple lessons learned . . . never leave the gas can out in the rain . . . and continue to do business with the one place that treated you right since not only did they correctly diagnose the problem, but they went to bat with you to get the free work done under warranty.


 
jake, I'm with you on both accounts. This gentleman's business is 20 miles from me but from this point on I will buy all my equipment from him and have him do all repairs I cannot handle myself. It's so rare to have a company go to bat for you especially when you bring in a piece of equipment you bought somewhere else! Also echo warrantied it when they didn't have to. And quite frankly I wouldn't have blamed them!  I am now an echo loyalist as  long as they keep producing quality products!
     Now if we could get the car manufacturers to.............never mind.


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## Danno77 (Aug 29, 2012)

A good dealer is what it's all about when you own new saws or don't do the work yourself. I'd be sticking with them, too.


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## Nixon (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm glad you found the problem AND a stand up dealer !


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