# Getting logs off a big pile



## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

Hi all

I'm brand new to cutting and splitting wood. The house we just bought has an older HS Tarm boiler and we got 5 or 6 cords of really nice seasoned and split wood with the house.  So I've been getting to know the Tarm and it has been running great for about a month now. 

Looking ahead to next year, I got a really good deal on a truck load of hardwood logs. Some of them are monsters and the pile they  left is a bit tangled up.  

I haven't gotten to work yet but I'm wondering what's the best way to go about getting logs off the top of the pile?  Or should I try and move one or two lower than the top (and stay outta the way)?Looks like a cant hook will be very Useful.  If anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.  

I have no intention of getting up on top of the pile to move anything. Looks like a broken leg (or worse) just waiting to happen.  Also, I don't own any type of winch and would like to try and avoid buying one. 

I can put up pics of the pile if that helps.  Here's the truck load:


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## JA600L (Dec 21, 2014)

I would just start sawing from the outside and work your way in.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 21, 2014)

Use a peavey to roll down logs off the pile. Stand off to the side when they roll.


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## claydogg84 (Dec 21, 2014)

JA600L said:


> I would just start sawing from the outside and work your way in.



I agree. You should be able to do this safely.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

JA600L said:


> I would just start sawing from the outside and work your way in.



Do you mean leave the logs in place and start bucking the ends that are sticking out?


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## claydogg84 (Dec 21, 2014)

Block Inlay said:


> Do you mean leave the logs in place and start bucking the ends that are sticking out?



Yes. Unless it is stacked dangerously high, you should be able to cut your way in. I didn't see any really big logs on that truck either.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Use a peavey to roll down logs off the pile. Stand off to the side when they roll.



Will a peavy or cant hook be sufficient for rolling a log up and over one that's slightly below it?  (Not sure that makes sense)


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

claydogg84 said:


> Yes. Unless it is stacked dangerously high, you should be able to cut your way in. I didn't see any really big logs on that truck either.



Pile is about shoulder height. The log ends are more or less flush on one side. On the other, there are maybe 3 or 4 ends sticking out. 

There are a few logs over 2' in diameter.  To me they may as well be sequoias!  They're at the bottom pretty much.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

I leave them in place and cut from the ends in also, and from the top down. Just be careful, and observant of the pile at all times.
I have had to step back a few times from a roller or two.
I use a steel pipe to work them down if needed.
I also always make the guy lay 3 or 4 sleepers on the ground and cross stack the rest on top.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

Shoulder height is perfect.
I usually get them stacked higher, taller than me. Just work your way carefully into them. Cutting the ends is easiest, and working your way in.
Roll the rounds out of your way periodically. If you need to move quick, you don't want to be stumbling or caught up on a pile of rounds under your feet.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> I also always make the guy lay 3 or 4 sleepers on the ground and cross stack the rest on top.



Yup the driver did that and put the biggest log down by itself on top of another sleeper.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Just work your way carefully into them. Cutting the ends is easiest, and working your way in.



What exactly do you mean by working your way in?  Bucking one log laying on top of others or right up against others?  Or just cutting the ends and then being able to move the shorter (and lighter) piece that's left?

Sorry for all the ?'s. I really appreciate everyone's replies.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 21, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Shoulder height is perfect.



Yeah. But your shoulders are higher than most "normal" people's".


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

Take your time, and look at the pile.
Any logs hanging with nothing touching the bottom along the end, is an easy cut.
Any logs resting level on top of another log or logs, should be an easy cut.
Any log with nothing under the middle, but resting on logs at both ends, is a pinch cut waiting to happen. 
Rule of thumb for me is, if I cut it which way if any will the end(s) move?
I try to stay away from any cuts that will drop and pinch the bar.
I start high and work my way down. That way I am not weakening or removing support of the logs above, and chancing them rolling down on me.
Always be very aware of the rounds dropping and coming at you after they are cut free.
Taking your time and accessing which to cut and where to cut, will make it an easy task.
Always stay a little cautious and ready to jump out of the way if need be.
At shoulder height, you should be okay. Always leave yourself a clear path to get away from the pile if need be.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

What I mean by working in, is if you start on the ends, which is the easiest part. Cut the logs protruding out of the ends the farthest, and keep cutting the ends working inward.
Don't feel you have to work just one side or one spot. It's like a puzzle, cept your taking pcs out, without having it come tumbling down. More like Jenga I guess. LOL
Don't climb on the pile and cut at the very top, that is asking for a world of hurt, although I do it on occasion when the pile is tight and solid. But I try not to make habit of it.
Post a few photos of the pile as is.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Yeah. But your shoulders are higher than most "normal" people's".


No, most other shoulders are just lower. I'm just normal, its yous guys that are abynormal.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 21, 2014)

Get yourself a pair of safety chaps too. TSC has them, and they aren't that expensive.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 21, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Get yourself a pair of safety chaps too. TSC has them, and they aren't that expensive.



Already have a pair, plus a face screen. I'm ugly enough already, don't need any more help.


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## Ashful (Dec 21, 2014)

I have a lot of respect for Hogz, but I don't like cutting on a pile.  Aside from the aforementioned rollers, I don't like cutting at shoulder height more than I need to, or taking chances with the nose of my bar getting into one log while I'm cutting another.

I roll one at a time off the pile, pref onto a sleeper , and cut them on the ground.  My preferred tool when out in the field is my LogRite 60" cant hook.  I roll logs much bigger than these with that tool.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 22, 2014)

You can't cut too many rounds up before you start tripping on them.  With a peavey type of tool, you can roll a log off the pile and down the sleepers so that when you cut it up, it's out of your way; you can cut up more logs that way before you have to move the rounds out of the way.  With a peavey, you can easily turn the log after you've sawn part ways through it to complete the cuts.

I would say, don't bother with cutting the ends, just roll 'em on down.  If they stick out, they're easier to grab with your peavey.

If they are on sleepers, there already is some height advantage.  I also don't cut everything at ground (or sleeper) level, because of all that stooping, but it is safer.


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## Poindexter (Dec 22, 2014)

You got some great advice from Hogwildz already.  So +1 to everything he said, with a couple pointers.

If budget is an issue you can use a piece of iron pipe for a few minutes to get real frustrated with it, before you get the right tool.  Instead of a cant hook, I personally would choose a Peavey, but if my neighbor would loan me a cant hook for free I wouldn't spend $125 on a good Peavey without trying the cant hook first.

What are you using for a length marker?  I got a piece of sidewalk chalk that is my daughter's least favorite color, and made a couple sharpie marks on a scrap 2x2.  With the saw powered off and over yonder I walk around my log piles looking for and marking the rounds I can safely cut off without breaking anything.  Later, put down the 2x2 and chalk, pick up the saw, cut those ones off, get the roudns out from under foot with the saw off, go get the 2x2 and chalk... you get the idea.

I especially like to cut all the length I can off the logs on the top before I roll them down onto the sleepers.  Less length, lighter weight, less damage if something goes awry when they roll from the top to the sleepers.

Grown up Jinga, great analogy.

I mostly agree with Joful.  Now is a great time to learn to cut with the tip of your blade...I spent some time with a pro arborist who does utility work in the spring and smoke jumps during fire season.  He was all about cutting with the tip and kept telling me over and over to not bring the log up against the bar dogs, but to instead cut with the tip, cut with the tip.  It took some getting used to, but now that I mostly have the hang of it I see his point.

Also agree with velvet foot about avoiding stooping.  Stooping sucks, I take enough Motrin already.  

With my last pile I first cut off all the easy rounds without moving anything.  Just get them cut off and out of the way.  Then working all from one side I pulled logs off the top to the sleepers and did some stooped over cutting, but I only pulled logs from the top half or so of the pile.  Pretty soon I had a kinda shelf or flat spot that was a real real convenient height for me to cut without stooping or reaching high.  I would just roll a log basically halfway down from the top to my shelf or ledge and then cut it up (just the tip, just the tip) without having to lean over or reach up with the saw - and when I was done I didn't have to pick the rounds up off the ground to carry them away.  They were laying right there about waist height, maybe halfway up the pile.

Do get some fresh chain files and a guide, but you don't really need more than two or three chains.  By the time you get through that pile you will be able to sharpen the chain that is on the saw faster than you can replace the chain that is on the saw.

The big ones at the bottom you wont have to twist - most likely.  With a 16" bar you probably will have to noodle and then cut off half rounds.  I would be perfectly comfortable taking on that pile with the 48" handled Peavey I already own - but my anatomical similarity to brick buildings and draught horses is oft commented by those around me.  Do you know how much you can bench press, or how long it takes you to go x miles on a treadmill or anything?  A 60" handle will give you more leverage, but there will be a time or two the handle won't fit and you'll have to go to the other end of the log and see if you can get hold of it thataway.

Your bar will get stuck in there at least once.  How are you going to get it out?

Cliffs:

I don't climb on log piles.
I don't cut on log piles.
I always roll the lightest possible log.
No beer until the saw is put away.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 22, 2014)

Reverse Jenga actually ...


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## Beer Belly (Dec 22, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Take your time, and look at the pile.
> Any logs hanging with nothing touching the bottom along the end, is an easy cut.
> Any logs resting level on top of another log or logs, should be an easy cut.
> Any log with nothing under the middle, but resting on logs at both ends, is a pinch cut waiting to happen.
> ...


 word for word, the way I would attack it.....take your time, and examine every cut


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## SKIN052 (Dec 22, 2014)

Hog has the right approach here. With a pile like that even though it seems a little scary it is best to work from the top down. Trust me I have worked on many log piles, both firewood and utility poles. A real concern with a puzzle of logs is the possibility of a jack knife. If you start at the bottom and take support out from the top they may start to roll hitting the lower sticks and possibly throwing one end of a log up into your face, or worst! I got lifted of my feet one time when the top of a pole pile started moving and sent the butt end of a stick under my chin and launched me on my ass, lol. Still got the chin scars.


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## pen (Dec 22, 2014)

You said you don't have a winch but if you have the means to pull the logs off the pile (a truck or a tractor of decent size) then I'd start at the top and pull them down as needed with a chain.  Log tongs can be helpful too here, and helps keep you from climbing the pile


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## Ashful (Dec 22, 2014)

Just shows there's more than one way to do a job.  I cut and split about 15 cords per year, which is likely double or triple most of the folks giving advice here, but I also don't usually get my wood delivered via log truck.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 22, 2014)

Although it's the subject for another thread, I use a thin 16" bamboo stick(plant stake) painted orange for making the next cut.  I put it up against the log, find a corresponding mark on the log and put that thin stick in my left hand and cut.  I've marked the logs ahead of time before, but it does take some extra steps, and you may have to dance around the rounds you've already cut.

It may sound obvious, but roll them down off the pile (with your peavey) standing off to the side, so that when it starts rolling there's only a slight chance you'll be in the way.  If you stand in front, be ready to dance away, and don't trip over anything, lol.


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## Jags (Dec 22, 2014)

I do not normal cut from pole length from a pile - that said...When I have had the need, I simply strap the next victim up and pull it to the ground with my truck (or tractor or whatever).  A couple of sleepers placed properly works the best.


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## billb3 (Dec 22, 2014)

I cut from 3 cord piles dumped from gravel truck last year.
At some point you're gonna have to roll /pull one out / off the pile, especially if they get snow packed / frozen.
Rolling off the pile onto other logs so you're not on the ground tends to speed things up, too

I've used a long branch/tree as a pry bar


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Here's some pics of the pile!


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Some sage advice in this thread.  Thanks so much everyone!  

I realized after posting that there isn't a great frame of reference in these photos.  The diameter of the log in the last pic is at least 2 feet, probably a little bit more than that.  In the pic above that one, there's another log from the same tree on the far right.


Hoping to get started on Wednesday.  We have two little ones so getting some free time will probably be the hardest part of this whole process.


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## KB007 (Dec 22, 2014)

What I do is use the first 3 or 4 logs to make a "table at one end of the pile, usually the downhill end if it's not level.  Then once the log table is in place, cut some notches in the top logs to stabilize when cutting.  This year I added a couple of 18" pieces of rebar drilled into the top logs and it worked as a stop to stop rolling logs as they come down off the pile.  Mostly use a crowbar to pull them down, tho I might try to find a longer pry bar or cant hook (I think that's what it's called).

This also has the advantage of saving my old back from a lot of cutting too low.  The table is usually about 24" high give or take.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 22, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Use a peavey to roll down logs off the pile. Stand off to the side when they roll.



This.  If you cannot do this safely or comfortably pull them off with your truck and a tow line.  If you don't have a truck, get a truck.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> This.  If you cannot do this safely or comfortably pull them off with your truck and a tow line.  If you don't have a truck, get a truck.



awesome avatar Bigg Redd!  say, can i borrow your truck?


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## BoiledOver (Dec 22, 2014)

Holy cripes what a perfect pile to work. Mine are generally stacked 12 feet high by 40 feet long in 8 foot log lengths.

If that pile was in my work station, I would have a long prybar, chainsaw, bar oil, and plenty of fuel handy. Might not even use the prybar. Begin just after breakfast and that pile would be bucked by lunch or before.

Fire the saw up , walk in, and kick some butt.


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## Soundchasm (Dec 22, 2014)

Hello Mr Inlay.  Let these guys tell you how to work that pile, and I'll give you a caution from another perspective.  I think you're a player, so in addition to protecting the rest of your body, here are a few thoughts for your hands.  There was a summer or two I HAD to work on downed trees in the yard.  I used my hands as vises - Big Mistake.  There was no injury "event", but I played some pretty painful gigs until I put 2+2 together.  I had to switch to handling all lumber with open palms before it got under control, and it's still with me today (I have a hand budget I must stick to).  I'm a lot older than you, but this stuff adds up.

When you get to work of this scale, Repetitive Stress Injuries (RSI) are possible.  I got what I think is Tennis Elbow from holding two buttons on my little electric splitter for hours and hours, so I had to rig up a hands-free system.  What a relief.

The back is the thing that we all worry about, but I'll say if you have some small issue at the end of a shift, try to multiply it by 100 or 1,000 over 4-5 years and make corrections tomorrow.  It's quite an eye-opener when you go to pick up a cup of coffee and scream!!


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

BoiledOver said:


> Holy cripes what a perfect pile to work. Mine are generally stacked 12 feet high by 40 feet long in 8 foot log lengths.
> 
> If that pile was in my work station, I would have a long prybar, chainsaw, bar oil, and plenty of fuel handy. Might not even use the prybar. Begin just after breakfast and that pile would be bucked by lunch or before.
> 
> Fire the saw up , walk in, and kick some butt.



That's reassuring to hear!  Like I said, I'm brand new to this so I have no frame of reference.  Thanks BoiledOver


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> Hello Mr Inlay.  Let these guys tell you how to work that pile, and I'll give you a caution from another perspective.  I think you're a player, so in addition to protecting the rest of your body, here are a few thoughts for your hands.  There was a summer or two I HAD to work on downed trees in the yard.  I used my hands as vises - Big Mistake.  There was no injury "event", but I played some pretty painful gigs until I put 2+2 together.  I had to switch to handling all lumber with open palms before it got under control, and it's still with me today (I have a hand budget I must stick to).  I'm a lot older than you, but this stuff adds up.
> 
> When you get to work of this scale, Repetitive Stress Injuries (RSI) are possible.  I got what I think is Tennis Elbow from holding two buttons on my little electric splitter for hours and hours, so I had to rig up a hands-free system.  What a relief.
> 
> The back is the thing that we all worry about, but I'll say if you have some small issue at the end of a shift, try to multiply it by 100 or 1,000 over 4-5 years and make corrections tomorrow.  It's quite an eye-opener when you go to pick up a cup of coffee and scream!!



Ok so my first reaction to this post was, "Why is this guy calling me out as a player??"  Then I realized you meant the guitar.  Yes I do play guitar (poorly) and lust after guitar gear the way some of the good folks on this site lust after their wood burning practices and devices. And as you probably guessed, my username matches up quite well with your avatar!

I can see how this type of job can definitely set you up for an RSI.  Especially the splitting that I can't wait to get started on.  I've found as I get a little older and a little less limber (I'm 37 going on 12) that taking the time to warm up and stretch a bit helps with all sorts of activities.  Warming up and stretching helps significantly with any sort of physical task.  Before kids, I worked out a lot and I'm well aware of the value of stretching and warming up (cooling down too).  This project for me will be part save $ on fuel, part learn some new skills, part buy new toys, part get exercise, and part have fun with it.


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## Jon_E (Dec 22, 2014)

Your pile is fairly tame.  I would attack it by cutting as many rounds off the ends as possible, and shut the saw off and move those pieces out from underfoot.  I am comfortable with bore-cutting and using the tip of my bar so I would probably get a fair ways into that pile before I started moving whole logs.  I tend to prefer rolling them only enough to make them accessible and thus the "shelf" concept explained above works well.  It is much easier on the back to cut at waist level than ground level.


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## Soundchasm (Dec 22, 2014)

Block Inlay said:


> Ok so my first reaction to this post was, "Why is this guy calling me out as a player??"  Then I realized you meant the guitar.  Yes I do play guitar (poorly) and lust after guitar gear the way some of the good folks on this site lust after their wood burning practices and devices. And as you probably guessed, my username matches up quite well with your avatar!
> 
> I can see how this type of job can definitely set you up for an RSI.  Especially the splitting that I can't wait to get started on.  I've found as I get a little older and a little less limber (I'm 37 going on 12) that taking the time to warm up and stretch a bit helps with all sorts of activities.  Warming up and stretching helps significantly with any sort of physical task.  Before kids, I worked out a lot and I'm well aware of the value of stretching and warming up (cooling down too).  This project for me will be part save $ on fuel, part learn some new skills, part buy new toys, part get exercise, and part have fun with it.



Hah!  Presumably regrettable, our definition of Player is the only one I have a chance at achieving!!  But I knew you'd get a kick out of your handle and my Avatar.  That's my 78 Gibson RD Artist with ebony board and abalone inlays (original owner).  I hope I never find out how ebony splits...

Back on topic, I finally had to start icing after shifts to stay in the game.  You've got a big advantage in having wood delivered.  I get mine from the properties of acquaintances, and as nice as they are, they still want it gone pronto so when it rains it pours.

Tell your wife there's hope because I'm now 56 going on 29.  Take care of yourself!!  Stay flexible when you develop techniques.  If it's hard work, then there's a smarter way lurking right under your nose.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> Hah!  Presumably regrettable, our definition of Player is the only one I have a chance at achieving!!  But I knew you'd get a kick out of your handle and my Avatar.  That's my 78 Gibson RD Artist with ebony board and abalone inlays (original owner).  I hope I never find out how ebony splits...
> 
> Back on topic, I finally had to start icing after shifts to stay in the game.  You've got a big advantage in having wood delivered.  I get mine from the properties of acquaintances, and as nice as they are, they still want it gone pronto so when it rains it pours.
> 
> Tell your wife there's hope because I'm now 56 going on 29.  Take care of yourself!!  Stay flexible when you develop techniques.  If it's hard work, then there's a smarter way lurking right under your nose.



An RD?  Very nice!!   Ebony is my favorite fingerboard wood for a variety of reasons and block inlays of course.  I could be mistaken, but I think lemon oil is a good treatment for ebony.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 22, 2014)

That's a cake pile man. git er done!

I'd be cutting them right where they lay.
I cut in place, then stack the rounds behind me as I go, a few feet away.
That way, your never having to move far. Never having to carry the rounds, just rollem back to the round stack, and stackem up. The only lifting is if you have to get them off the pole stack, I try to roll the cuts as much as possible. Off the pole stack along the ground and lift onto the rounds stack. Then when splitting time comes, they are all ready to pull off the round stacks to split.

If you would rather put them on the ground to cut, just make your cuts along the whole pole as far as you can go without putting the chain into the dirt, then roll the pole over and finish the cuts.
A lot of bending over that way, and Percocets afterward.
I personally like working high, and working my way down, easier on my body for me, and gravity does most of the cutting, so no real soreness of the shoulders etc, cept for abynormal short folks.

I used to use guides, notches, paint etc to mark my cuts, but then I just realized my bar is 18" long, so I just turned the saw parallel to the pole, eyed the spot(the length of the bar), eyed a reference point for the cut, and cut. Now I just eye everything. Only a few need to be trimmed down anymore. The rest are good to go.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Will report back on my progress when there's something to report.  Ordered a logrite cant hook. Hopefully the wife doesn't club me with it!


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## Ashful (Dec 22, 2014)

You'll love the cant hook.  I've used Peaveys, but prefer the cant for rolling logs.  LogRites are great, light and strong.  Which length did you buy?


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## Block Inlay (Dec 22, 2014)

Joful said:


> You'll love the cant hook.  I've used Peaveys, but prefer the cant for rolling logs.  LogRites are great, light and strong.  Which length did you buy?



I got the 60.  Hurray for leverage


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## Ashful (Dec 22, 2014)

That's a good size.  Overkill most of the time, but you'll be happy you have the extra length (and wish you had even more) when you get into bigger stuff.  I roll logs as big as 50" diameter with mine, but it's really better at gripping stuff under 40" diameter.

Last weekend I was rolling around a dozen logs around 20" diameter.  I might have been a little quicker with s slightly shorter lever there, but was glad I had the leverage a few times.


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## Poindexter (Dec 23, 2014)

Joful said:


> You'll love the cant hook.  I've used Peaveys, but prefer the cant for rolling logs.



Yup, I agree a cant hook is better for rolling.  

Stick a fork in the end of a hot dog and drag it through the ketchup on your dinner plate.  

When you get in a spot where a log needs to be moved and twisting just doesn't work you can spear that log with a Peavey tip and maneuver it a little bit like a hotdog on a dinner fork.


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## Ashful (Dec 23, 2014)

When you get used to processing 40" and larger, you just accept that rolling is the only option.  You're not going to drag a 15,000 lb. log.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 23, 2014)

Got rained out today.  Shoot.


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## 1750 (Dec 23, 2014)

That's a beautiful looking pile of wood.  Nice and straight.  

Just promise yourself you won't climb up on that pile with your saw.  And, if your kids are like mine were, they've got to know they absolutely can't climb up on that pile either.  It looks like huge fun, and it is until something starts to move.

I spend most of my time locating, cutting and hauling it out of the woods.  You can spend your time making rounds out of wood laying in your yard -- I suspect that's a much better use of your time.

Be careful and have a great time with it!


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## billb3 (Dec 23, 2014)

Block Inlay said:


> Hi all
> 
> 
> Here's the truck load:
> ...



Man I'd like to see a pile of logs like that in my yard.


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## Block Inlay (Dec 28, 2014)

The work is going well. My cant hook is just what I needed to work the pile.  There are quite a few trick logs, big knots and such, that get wedged between other logs.  It's fun figuring out how to move them safely and with as little effort as possible. 

I've split and stacked about a third of the pile so far.  Would be more but the holidays and my two kiddos have limited my play time.  

I'm really pleased with my stihl 271 and Fiskars x27. 

I've got one log that's a total bear to split.  I'll have to post a pic for an ID.  I whacked the hell out of a round with the Fiskars and couldn't split it.  It's not even very big. Maybe 10 inches in diameter!

Before I started, a neighbor asked what I was using for a splitter.  (We're new to the neighborhood).  I told him I'm going to use a "ME 1977".  He replied "oh, never heard of that. Who makes it?"  I told him my mom and dad.  He gave me a friendly "wise ass" look and chuckled.


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