# homeowner saw vs pro saw



## hpcbmw (Apr 24, 2016)

EDIT: Ok, I guess I don't know what a "pro saw" is. If I could, I'd change the title to "homeowner saw vs. next step up saw".

Newish guy here. I got some great advice  on this forum back in November, so I'm back with more questions. I bought a house on .8 acres with about a dozen 80' digger pines that will be cut down in the next few years. To save money, I'm paying a tree service to dismantle them and chip the brush, but leave the logs for me to cut into rounds and stack.

I bought a Poulan 4218 42cc 18" bar in November and got quite a bit of use out of it. However, it just quit on me and I've got a whole summer of trees to cut. I rebuilt the carb, but no luck. I then checked compression, which is only about 50 psi. I'm not sure if I ran a poor gas mixture, old gas (will that ruin the piston/cylinder?) or if I ran it too hard and overheated it. I plan to pull it apart and if it just needs cylinder or rings, replace them and get it running again, but that's a project I don't have time for right now.

I borrowed a friends Husky 445 for some of the bigger stuff, and realized that I rarely need something that big and heavy. I consider the Poulan a "trainer" chainsaw. I learned alot about cutting trees and bucking logs, plus about the ethanol in pump gas, engineered fuel, old gas, etc.

I looked at a bunch of used chainsaws and they are selling at 75% of new here in Northern California, plus most of them have been stored with pump gas for a year and run rough - meaning they probably need  at least a carb rebuild, so it's not worth it to me.

Ok, now for my question - I see Stihl MS170 for $159 and Husky 240 for $179. Both seem like a good deal for a small, user friendly saw. The pro models are $100 more. I can swing under $200 from tax return money, but $300- $400 is a real stretch. What will I get with a pro model that I won't get with a home owner model? A 16" or 18" chain seems to work well for bucking logs, plus the tree trimming and pruning I've been doing myself (sometimes climbing 40' into trees to trim branches up to 10").

Thanks for any advice!


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## claydogg84 (Apr 24, 2016)

What Pro saws are you looking at for under $400? If you think your friends Husqvarna 445 was too large for you, then there is little point in looking at any Pro level saws. I think either of the smaller saws you listed will fulfill your needs.


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## hpcbmw (Apr 24, 2016)

Husky 435 or 440 and Stihl MS271.


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## claydogg84 (Apr 24, 2016)

hpcbmw said:


> Husky 435 or 440 and Stihl MS271.



They are not Pro level saws.


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## hpcbmw (Apr 24, 2016)

I guess that shows how little I know about chainsaws, which is why I'm on this forum.


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## claydogg84 (Apr 24, 2016)

It sounds like any of the lower CC saws will fit your needs. I wouldn't worry too much about pro or non pro grade saws.


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## woodhog73 (Apr 24, 2016)

Do you have a good dolmar dealer nearby ? If so check out a Dolmar PS 421. I have spent time cutting with one and it's a very nice saw.

42 cc saw with pro/commercial grade construction at home owner prices. Made in Germany. Very high quality for mid $300 price range. And twice the saw of any of the ones you listed in the thread in terms of quality and construction. Slightly bigger than a stihl 170 or husky 240 but not much. Light and easy to handle saw with a broad range of uses

The difference between a pro saw and homeowner saw is based on the design of the construction. A pro saw of any brand will have magnesium cases split vertically which hold the lower end assembly, clutch, etc. The cylinder ( top end ) bolts directly onto those magnesium cases. A saw built around an engine.

A homeowner saw uses plastic cases which hold the lower end crank assembly which drops into the plastic cases. Cheaper to manufacture so lower cost to the consumer. Will not hold up as well over long term use. Still fine saws for many people though. Just depends on what your doing with the saw, as with any tool.

Of the 2 small saws you asked about ( stihl ms 170 and husky 240) I would suggest the Stihl. It has a far better clutch than the husky. And I'm a husky fan their pro saws are exceptional tools, but the 240 is in my opinion not as good of a deal and not as good of a saw as the ms170.


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## Nocattom (Apr 24, 2016)

Echo cs 490, $350.00, 50cc, get the 16" or 18" it comes with a 20". Light and powerful.


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## claydogg84 (Apr 24, 2016)

Nocattom said:


> Echo cs 490, $350.00, 50cc, get the 16" or 18" it comes with a 20". Light and powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If the OP stated they thought a Husqvarna 445 was too much saw for them, I see no point in recommending an even bigger saw.


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## Nocattom (Apr 24, 2016)

Just my advice and what works for me. I had only bought and used polans as "training saws"for years. The echo is lighter and cuts better and faster causing less fatigue. By wight it is lighter than the husky as well. By a 16" blade and grow into the saw instead of another when the need arises. In the end  it's just my thoughts and advice. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Grateful11 (Apr 24, 2016)

If you're interested in an Echo at all do yourself a favor and see if any of these dealers are near you at the link below. There may be a 20% day coming to a dealer in your area. That's what we did last Fall when picking up 2 new Echo's. No one here on the farm has ever been a big Echo fan but these newer saws are nice. The CS-400 might suit you well.

http://www.echo-usa.com/Products/Chain-Saws/CS-400

http://www.echo-usa.com/Promotions/One-Day-Sale

If you're only going to have one saw I'd look to something more than an MS170. Husky 240 is very lowend. If sticking with Husky look at a 435. With Stihl look at an MS250 or MS251


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## Jon1270 (Apr 25, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Do you have a good dolmar dealer nearby ? If so check out a Dolmar PS 421. I have spent time cutting with one and it's a very nice saw.
> 
> 42 cc saw with pro/commercial grade construction at home owner prices. Made in Germany. Very high quality for mid $300 price range. And twice the saw of any of the ones you listed in the thread in terms of quality and construction. Slightly bigger than a stihl 170 or husky 240 but not much. Light and easy to handle saw with a broad range of uses
> 
> ...



Seconded.  All of it.


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## hpcbmw (Apr 25, 2016)

Great info, thanks guys! There are no Dolmar dealers near me.  There is an Echo dealer nearby with a sale date next week. For 20% off, the Echo CS 490 is right about $300 with tax. It looks like the echo has comparable weight to the entry level Stihl and Husky. I'll probably look at the Echo at the sale next week, and start with a 16 or 18" bar. 

Thanks for clarifying the pro vs. homeowner (saw built around engine vs. plastic case saw).


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## woodhog73 (Apr 25, 2016)

I have zero experience with echo but I've read lots of positive stuff about them. People who own them praise them for being good quality and a great value. As is the case with Dolmar, and echo, you get a lot of saw for the money.

The cs490 appears to be a 50cc saw. Sure a little bigger than what you initially were thinking of getting. However it's still a lightweight saw and in my opinion fits in the easy to use category.

 All saws are dangerous if used in an unsafe manner regardless if it's a stihl 170 or a bigger saw. Getting comfortable with a 50cc saw generally doesn't take that long, there is a short learning curve because they are fairly easy to handle, but this is why so many people use a 50cc saw and for firewood and storm clean up around the yard they usually are a perfect size.  After you are comfortable with it the beauty of it is with 50cc you can actually do a lot of cutting ! Big and small trees !


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## johneh (Apr 25, 2016)

I have three different saws all Stihl  they are used for different purposes
The MS 250 is my oldest saw and my go to fire wood unit good power light
enough that you can use it all day . The MS 291 is for the big stuff in bucking
fire wood a little more weight and power . The MS 461 is the felling saw for the
big stuff and for bucking the really big stuff . Not a saw I could use all day
getting to old to sling that weight for long periods. Long bar ,heavy and loads of
power . If I could only have one saw I would choose the MS250


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## iamlucky13 (Apr 26, 2016)

claydogg84 said:


> If the OP stated they thought a Husqvarna 445 was too much saw for them, I see no point in recommending an even bigger saw.



I'm a bit confused on that point:

Poulan 4218 - 42cc, 18in, ~11 pounds
Husqvarna 445 - 45cc, 16-20in, ~11 pounds

I wonder if the Husqvarna simply cut enough better than he was used to that it seemed like a bigger saw.

It seems to me 40-50cc is probably the range the OP should be looking at, especially considering he's talking about bucking a decent number of relatively large pines (and I presume will continue to scrounge firewood in future years once he's done with the wood from his property). I'm sure the MS170 and similar can suffice and would definitely be more convenient for the trimming work, but it doesn't seem ideal for his main intended use.


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## dougand3 (Apr 27, 2016)

The Poulan 4218 was probably a strato set too lean at the factory and scored P, R & C. It's a crime with these EPA games. Last I looked, a top end kit was $75 for these saws. Not worth it, IMO. IF this class saw did all you needed, you could look at refurbed Poulans - eg. VMInnovations has them for ~$80-$90. But do tune saw richer and mod the muffler for more power.


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## CTYank (Apr 28, 2016)

IMO do look at VMInnovations and don't waste your $ on stihl. Why? Ferinstance their wee-ones have stamped mild-steel rods. POS. I got a PP4218 from VMInnovations a few years back as a backup/truck saw, richened up the top end a bit, tossed the "Torch" plug for one a step colder than spec, replaced the soft-steel chain. It still punches above its weight, and is smooth & quiet.


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## DodgyNomad (May 3, 2016)

hpcbmw said:


> EDIT: Ok, I guess I don't know what a "pro saw" is. If I could, I'd change the title to "homeowner saw vs. next step up saw".
> 
> Newish guy here. I got some great advice  on this forum back in November, so I'm back with more questions. I bought a house on .8 acres with about a dozen 80' digger pines that will be cut down in the next few years. To save money, I'm paying a tree service to dismantle them and chip the brush, but leave the logs for me to cut into rounds and stack.
> 
> ...



With a whole summer of trees to cut, depending on the size, I'd look into a 60cc saw.  Something like a nice used Stihl ms362, or a Dolmar, or 562XP Husky.  The power, torque, reliability of the pro saws makes them worth the money if you're using them often enough.  I like big saws though, and would rather have bigger and cut and buck more quickly, than a light saw that I have to hold for twice as long to do the same amount of work.


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## Jon1270 (May 3, 2016)

DodgyNomad said:


> With a whole summer of trees to cut, depending on the size, I'd look into a 60cc saw.



But with a 60cc pro saw, it wouldn't be a whole summer's worth.  It might not even be a whole weekend's worth, and then how do you justify the purchase?


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## Babaganoosh (May 3, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> But with a 60cc pro saw, it wouldn't be a whole summer's worth.  It might not even be a whole weekend's worth, and then how do you justify the purchase?



More power plus less weight is more fun. 

I've learned (from my dad) to save extra and buy commercial or pro versions whenever you can when it comes to tools and equipment. Overall he's right.  Pro tools hold value better, are serviceable years later vs throwaway or obsolete parts, generally make a task a lot more pleasurable and you really can feel quality when you pick up and use a pro tool. 

I'm too poor to buy cheap tools


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## DodgyNomad (May 4, 2016)

Babaganoosh said:


> More power plus less weight is more fun.
> 
> I've learned (from my dad) to save extra and buy commercial or pro versions whenever you can when it comes to tools and equipment. Overall he's right.  Pro tools hold value better, are serviceable years later vs throwaway or obsolete parts, generally make a task a lot more pleasurable and you really can feel quality when you pick up and use a pro tool.
> 
> ...



Right on.  Unless the saw is going to sit on the shelf and only get used once in a blue moon, I'd go pro.  Your mention of being serviceable is another big advantage.  The pro saws are meant to be rebuilt again, and again.  And they're cheap to rebuild. 

Quick story tonight:  I brought my Stihl 361 to the neighbors and ran it side by side with him and his similar size stihl homeowner saw while bucking up a bunch of cherry we cut down.  He then asked to use my saw and was blown away by the power difference.  Told me he was shocked how much faster I was bucking, and he had a brand new Stihl yellow chain on. 

Saws are within a few cc of each other, and weigh/look the same.  Pro saws are fun!


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## woodhog73 (May 4, 2016)

For what it's worth a homeowner plastic clamshell saw can also be rebuilt if need be.

All of my saws are pro grade. But still I'm not personally going to say someone shouldn't by a homeowner model. If someone only cuts up 1 to 2 cords of firewood a year that means they are only running the saw a few hours a year. In that scenario if I were selling saws ( I don't ) and a customer came in looking at a $350 homeowner saw vs a $550 pro saw telling me they were running it a few hours a year, I might have a hard time sleeping at night pushing the pro saw on them.

Now if someone appreciates the quality of a better built tool then naturally buy the pro saw.

I run my saws sometimes 3 or 4 days a week during certain parts of the year. Easily a gallon of premix a day during some weeks. For me it's a no brainer a pro saw is the better fit. But for the firewood cutter burning a cord a year there is also a good argument to spend less, keep more money in your pocket.


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## dougand3 (May 4, 2016)

Ditto on rebuilding a homeowner clamshell - you can do it - it's just 4 more bolts. Problem is price. Topend costs $60-$70 on a saw selling for $60-$70. The aftermarket supply system doesn't make kits and maybe won't. These saws have become considered throwaways. I've got 5 strato Poulans in boxes with scored P & C.


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## CTYank (May 5, 2016)

Best advice I can give: you need more than one saw. One viable combo is a 60 cc, a 40 cc and a polesaw. The big one for felling & bucking, the smaller one for limbing, the polesaw for lengthening your arms cutting smaller stuff. Seems you'll have lots of work for all of them.
One way to beat yourself up is to use only a large heavy saw for all the cutting. Risky behavior- fatigue clouds judgement.


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## trailblaster (May 7, 2016)

I just picked up a dolmar 6400 for felling and bucking.  I've been using a dolmar 510(50cc) for the past 6 years and it's worked great for everything but I wanted a second saw to bring out to the woods .  I was looking at the 6100 to help buck the trees faster but my dealer steered me to the 6400(64cc). It was a pound heavier than the 6100 but it's very well balanced for bucking where it strangely feels very light when pivoting through logs and just rips through logs fast so much faster than the 510. It makes for a more productive day in the woods when I have two saws with me.


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## D8Chumley (May 7, 2016)

CTYank said:


> Best advice I can give: you need more than one saw. One viable combo is a 60 cc, a 40 cc and a polesaw. The big one for felling & bucking, the smaller one for limbing, the polesaw for lengthening your arms cutting smaller stuff. Seems you'll have lots of work for all of them.
> One way to beat yourself up is to use only a large heavy saw for all the cutting. Risky behavior- fatigue clouds judgement.


Pole saws are definitely nice to have. I bought the Echo PAS 225 last year, but only used it a few times. I recently bought the weed wacker attachment so I get a little more use out of it, and sold my 10 yr old Echo to my brother for $50. Win-win


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## thinkxingu (May 9, 2016)

First, I hope you learned a lesson about buying cheap by getting what, six months out of that Poulan?

Second, you've only got about ten more trees? Buy a new Stihl 362, use it to cut all your big wood and then either sell it for just less than you paid and buy an MS 250, which'll last you most of the rest of your life, or keep it as the last saw you'll ever buy.

"Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk


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## mikebinthesky (May 9, 2016)

The 445 really is a nice saw.I have abused mine in every way possible and it still runs like the day i bought it----give it another look.


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## BrotherBart (May 9, 2016)

I have 2 40cc Husqvarnas that I have run the crap out of for 10 years and they don't seem to be getting tired yet. They are my go to saws since I am a scrawny old man and the shoulders just don't want to see my big saw anymore. Ended up with two because Lowe's had them listed for $99 online and I called and the gal on the phone got snippy when I asked if the price was a mistake. So I told her to send me two of them. Figured one would be for parts. Hasn't happened.







Sent from my dishwasher using Tapatalk


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## Jan Pijpelink (May 10, 2016)

BrotherBart said:


> I have 2 40cc Husqvarnas that I have run the crap out of for 10 years and they don't seem to be getting tired yet. They are my go to saws since I am a scrawny old man and the shoulders just don't want to see my big saw anymore. Ended up with two because Lowe's had them listed for $99 online and I called and the gal on the phone got snippy when I asked if the price was a mistake. So I told her to send me two of them. Figured one would be for parts. Hasn't happened.
> 
> View attachment 178655
> 
> ...


Nice picture of your saw. Can't wait to see your dishwasher.


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## Jon1270 (May 10, 2016)

...BrotherBart said:


> 10 years and they don't seem to be getting tired yet.



This is neither here nor there with respect to clamshell vs. vertically split case saw construction, but among the dozens of saws I've worked on in the last few years, I can only think of one that I'd describe as having gotten tired, i.e. gradually worn out. On that saw the clutch was badly worn, the slot in the chain adjuster was so chewed up that the screwdriver would always cam out, the rings were worn down to slivers and the piston was practically a golf ball. The rest were all just broken due to one or another sort of mishap or neglect.  It takes an awful lot of hours to wear out a piston, or even a set of rings.


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## woodhog73 (May 10, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> It takes an awful lot of hours to wear out a piston, or even a set of rings.



I agree. Unless you don't keep the air filter clean, or keep the fuel air ratio adjusted properly and/ or premix ratio correct. If run properly totally agree.

My Stihl 031 is pushing 40 years old. Was a work saw for a very active firewood cutter for many years,  not by me but I know the saws history. Now is a garage queen and occasional toy in that I need to fire her up and exercise her a bit. 

Everything on that saw is 40 years old including all bearings, piston, rings, cylinder, carb, all fuel lines, all rubber except for one rubber AV mount which went bad. In fact the saws never been apart.  even the air filter ( although I have a few spares in the garage) is original.

Just well cared for, never run improperly ( not to be confused for never run it's cut hundreds if not thousands of cords of wood) and always maintained.

I don't even purchase Stihl saws anymore lol


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## venator260 (May 15, 2016)

CTYank said:


> Best advice I can give: you need more than one saw. One viable combo is a 60 cc, a 40 cc and a polesaw. The big one for felling & bucking, the smaller one for limbing, the polesaw for lengthening your arms cutting smaller stuff. Seems you'll have lots of work for all of them.
> One way to beat yourself up is to use only a large heavy saw for all the cutting. Risky behavior- fatigue clouds judgement.




In thinking of my own practice, I can't see limbing taking a large enough amount of time to justify the purchase of another saw. I would like a two saw system however, but they would be two bigger saws (50cc+, pro grade). One would be in the yard to buck and have a 20 inch bar, and the other would come to the woods to cut down, and have a 24-26 inch bar. The only time I've been thankful to have a small saw was if I were trimming back or clearing out a road, and that was the only thing that I was doing at that time.

I realize I'm in a different league here than the OP. While I've never measured, I'd estimate that whatever saw(s) I have will need to process at least 12-14 cords of firewood per year and 2-3 triaxle loads of logs.


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