# Can't get a hot fire



## Beegee0131 (Dec 6, 2017)

I have a 120,000 btu hardy wood boiler...I bought it used and am not understanding why it only ever seems to have a small fire and not an inferno... it has a sealed blower that feeds thru the ash tray which seems to blow great. I can feel tons of air flow out the chimney when blowing w no fire in the box..I'm using seasoned split wood..have a clean ash tray.. but it only seems to make a fire that you would want to roast marshmallows on. What am I doing wrong?


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## Sodbuster (Dec 6, 2017)

Starving for air, poor draft, wood not as seasoned as you thought. Is this an outside boiler? Leaning toward wood.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 6, 2017)

Hmm. Very strange. I used to own one. It is about as simple as a mechanical pencil. The blower is commanded on by the aquastat which turns on the fan and opens the damper. Air blows through the tube to the location under the grate. It fans the fire and then makes its way out of the top and out of the flue. Can you lost a video?


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 6, 2017)

I agree with sod buster. Please describe your wood size, hardwood or softwood, rounds or splits. How’s your coal bed?


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 7, 2017)

I'll make a video tonight.. I keep my wood in a lean too that's enclosed on three sides and most of my wood has been in there since last season... I just feel as I'm the only one who has to split    
There wood into pencil thick wood, keep it under roof and kiln dry it before I put it in the wood burner.. this is my fourth season and it's been a struggle


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 7, 2017)

You have been burning like this for 4 years? Possibly a very weak fan. Like I said I had an h4 and I had flue temps probably north of 1000 degrees. Very inefficient but the fire would burn like crazy. I burned green rounds to slow down the fire. It smoked like crazy because of the high moisture and lower firebox temps.


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## salecker (Dec 7, 2017)

How are your boiler tubes? Have they been cleaned?
On my Ecocnoburn there is a bypass you open when loading.Does yours have a bypass?


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 7, 2017)

This is a conventional owb not a owb gasser. It just is a firebox surrounded by water. No tubes.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 7, 2017)

Correct this is an outdoor unit..I believe the majority of the wood I have is split cherry w other hard woods mixed in..the fan seems to blow great out of the chimney... and my coal bed forms underneath the log grate..it just has a hard time flaming up...I feel like I have what I need to make a great fire but for some reason it's small... idk of the chimney height made a difference .. it's 3' with a cap..I'll post pics and a vid when I get a chance..


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## blades (Dec 7, 2017)

Tossing a 4 ft on there wouldn't hurt, you can get a piece of the cheap single wall stuff just for the try out. 1 year usually is not sufficient to dry fuel out even splits small. Particularly if it tightly stacked in your shed- needs air flow through the stack to carry away the humidity.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 7, 2017)

It seems everyone I know that burns... burn without splitting or just stack it at the wood boiler letting it get wet and snow covered..or even burn green.... if I open their OWB door, flames jump out and they have an incinerator inside.   
Is this not typical? Every one on here let's their wood season for several years? Keeps it dry?


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 7, 2017)




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## blades (Dec 7, 2017)

WE are well aware of the poor practices exhibited by many owb burners, i guess they enjoy having creosote running down the pipes and burning or trying burn twice as much wood as needed. 
q#1 don't know
Q2 yes
Q3 yes
Properly season and dry wood will give twice if not more heat per cubic ft than green wet wood simply because you are not wasting 2/3 of the energy per log drying out the rest in the fire chamber. You are allready at a disadvantage having the firebox wrapped in a wet blanket sucking the heat out of the fire. It's not that I am against owb's  just the poor practices of some which spoils it for the rest of us, like me- my town has a ban on OWB's which would have been perfect to heat my new to me home out in the sticks. Just payed to fill the 500 gallon propane tank $492 for a little less than 300 gallons.   $1.69/gal + charges. Not Thrilled- as that is more than I spent on NG over the last 3 years. It is what is, but it is going to change, stoves will be installed asap, A pair of NC-30's are a  ballooning image in my mind. Although my wallet is not going to like the effect. And that standing pilot light AO Smith ( 75 gal) water heater is going south as well. A 50 is big enough for me and perhaps a point of use unit for the kitchen sink


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## Fred61 (Dec 7, 2017)

In order for wood to burn efficiently it should be burning in it's own coal bed. You mentioned that the coal bed is forming under the grates. If it's set up to burn wood there shouldn't be any grates.

At the beginning of the oil crises a local plumber installed a boatload of Newmac wood furnaces in this area and several were experiencing what you describe. They only had coal grates. I took care of the problem for two friends that had them by laying a 1/4 inch steel plate over the grates. On the first one I drilled several 3/8 in. holes in it and on the second one I made it about 3 inches shorter than the firebox to allow the air through.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 7, 2017)

Don’t worry about the flue pipe, it’s forced draft so it won’t make a difference. Sounds like your grates are letting all the coals fall through the grate. What do you have for grates? The oem ones are cast iron with 1 inch gaps. Have they been replaced?


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## BoiledOver (Dec 7, 2017)

Beegee0131 said:


> It seems everyone I know that burns... burn without splitting or just stack it at the wood boiler letting it get wet and snow covered..or even burn green.... if I open their OWB door, flames jump out and they have an incinerator inside.
> Is this not typical? Every one on here let's their wood season for several years? Keeps it dry?


As blades said #1 don't know, #2 yes and #3 yes. Read this very informative article concerning firewood moisture content. http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-and-moisture/


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## blades (Dec 8, 2017)

Had a hot blast furnace with big grate slots- never had a problem getting a hot fire- most of time sweating it out that the automatic damper would jam wide open and cause over fire- which seemed to be its preferred position.  fact is i sealed that damper off and just used the spin damper on the ash door. Major improvement to my sanity at the time.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

Sorry tried posting a video of my fire.. didn't work... I did get that pic of my wood to post yesterday... I'm just going w I have junk wood and need to do way more to my logs to get my OWB to heat my house as good as my oil furnace..as much time as I have in firewood currently I'd be better off getting a second job and paying for oil.


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## BoiledOver (Dec 8, 2017)

Are you a quitter? It is easy to be discouraged and give up trying. Unfortunately there is no satisfaction in that direction.

Stick it out and get the win. Is it possible there is a pinhole leak in the firebox/waterjacket that is wetting your fire? This may not be evident at cooled temps. Did you restrict the grate?

Are you expecting too much? Does it heat your home? If you are beyond your abilities, hire a professional.


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## blades (Dec 8, 2017)

pin hole when warmed up - now there is a sneaky one-a fine mist from something like that sure would give you fits. Are you losing water ? if you have a gauge to tell or a dip stick . With a good light and a cool  firebox might be able to pick up on a weep mark .  random thoughts


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

No I work dark to dark.. this weekend will be my time to restrict the grate. I don't think there is a pin hole being that it holds water for long periods of time with no problem. Idk if I'm asking for too much... right now it's just a smoldering fire.. does it get to temp.. yes eventually...but my furnace blower has been blowing all day and my house temp will not move past 70 when it's set to 72.... would my oill furnace have a problem reaching temp.. no... I have had 3 diff OWB guys come out.. one said my heat exchanger was my prob.. being it's rated 140k btu and boiler at 120k btu..others said that was a croc... second said my water pump shouldn't run all the time it should only send water to the house when the house was calling for heat... which it always is, so I don't see how that matters...third said my fire wasn't getting hot enough and blamed my blower... new blower and I made sure the air passage was completely sealed...all I want is it to heat a 1600sqft house..my oilfurnace can do it no prob but this thing will not. If a fire goes out in the middle of the night and I am able to get the boiler back to temp but the house has fallen into the low 60s.. no way in heck will the OWB get the house backup to temp in less than 24 hours.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

Sorry... to clarify the pin hole... I fill this thing manually w a hose or 5 gallon buckets... when it's not in use it holds water no problem w me not needing to add any water..would it only leak when I had a fire?


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## pernox (Dec 8, 2017)

First year here all I had was wet wood - cut on Sunday, burn for the week, repeat. Starting a fire was hard, but the boiler (Woodmaster 4400) would do her thing once the fire started rolling, and never had trouble keeping the house - about 1700' - warm. Since then I've busted hump to get ahead and life is easier. 

While it remains a bad idea, the boiler should be more than capable of running on wet wood. First thing I'd do is ditch the grate, next would be to make sure your fan is performing well, even if it's new. Not sure exactly how you'd measure that, but that's what I'd look at.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

Before I started a fire.. I had great air pressure coming outta the stack with the fan blowing... def gonna try removing the grating tomorrow... and if I have to kill the fire to do so I'll check the air flow again


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## brenndatomu (Dec 8, 2017)

Does the wood burn up into a fine ash readily? If you often have a bunch of black unburnt chunks I'd say the wood is wet...but what you posted the pic of does look to be well seasoned...
What happens you have the door open for a while...does the fire flare up? How about if you throw in some kiln dried lumber scraps? Those should burn like wild fire!


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

W the door open the fire will ramp up. And I have burned the lath from a bedroom remodel that was super dry that the wood burner absolutely loved. That's how I've seen other ppl wood burner look w wet wood. Blue rolling flame that jump outta the door.. but mines only ever looked like that when I burned lath and it doesn't last too long.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 8, 2017)

Hmm, yeah this is a strange one...ever ask the Hardy dealer about it?


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## jrod770 (Dec 8, 2017)

I currently have the Hardy KB125, the gasification boiler.  I have had an issue with mine 2 times that sounds similar.  You say the draft fan is running, but check to see if the little draft fan door is actually opening.  On top of my fan, there is a little door, controlled by an electric motor, that opens up when the fan turns on.  Twice now mine has sheared the pins off attaching the door to the motors linkage.  If this happens, the motor runs but no fan or air feeding the fire.  Worth a shot


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 8, 2017)

Yeah I called the dealer but they are a couple hours away and without looking at it couldn't help me and they weren't about to make the drive.... mine has no door that needs to open.. just a flapper on the fan that opens that allows it to suck in air to blow it into the fire box which it feels like it does...


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## blades (Dec 9, 2017)

well that ought to say something about your other wood,  still check to make sure that fan door is able to open when  the loading door is closed.  its got to be either lack of combustion air or your wood is that green.  Only other choice is a restricted exhaust someway, somehow. Screw the grate for now that's not the problem.


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## warno (Dec 9, 2017)

Check the chimney side of things like said above. Also, if possible, check the blower outlet in the firebox to see if its got a strong flow rate. Or at least whatever those boilers are supposed to have for cfm from the fan. If you have air in and air out at a good rate then its got to be the wood.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 9, 2017)

Ok so I believe this is your problem from what you have stated. Your wood is wet/green. It's is very difficult to burn wet/green wood without two things, a coal bed and air being forced at the wood. I found my hardy to only burn wet wood if I let the ash below the grates build up so that the coals when they fell through the great we're still a few inches from the wood. That combined with your forced air fan blowing on the coals and on your wood from the high ash bed directs the air at the wood instead of across the bottom all the way to the front door and then up be front wall. Let your ashes build up so your coal bed is right up to the grates.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 9, 2017)

It may be too soon to tell but it seems getting the wood in the cool bed gives me an efficient fire but it seems I have multiple problems... how warm should the air flowing thru my heat exchanger be coming out of my register? It's Luke warm at best.. nothing that seems like it would heat a house...I took the furnace box apart and the exchanger seems to fit tightly inside and has been taped at all edges so air can't pass anywhere but thru it.. I contacted the manufacturer.. they say air flow nor water flow isdirectional so should work... my infared thermastat was having troubles reading the water in and out.. but I did get a reading of 150 both on the pex going in and out the exchanger....I know it's to be 180 but didn't know if the outside of the pex would read 180... but either way it doesn't seem to be absorbing the heat.. only thing I can think is air is still getting around some how... anyone had similar prob or made anything to help prevent air from going around the exchanger? Or any other ideas .. thanks


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## StihlKicking (Dec 10, 2017)

I own an h2 and heat a 2700 sqft home plus DHW. I’ve never measured the air temp at the register but it’s hot enough that it’s uncomfortable to stand on the metal grate bare foot. My water is 165 at the tap. What is your aquastat set on? Try moving it up to about 180 if it’s not already there. I burn wood that is about a year old some is split some isn’t and it creates a raging inferno in the firebox. If all mechanical components are functioning correctly a hardy should burn any piece of wood that you can fit through the door of it, so I’m pretty sure you don’t have a wood problem.  If your aquastat is set at 180 and your line going into your heat exchanger is measuring 150 you have a major heat loss problem in your underground lines. Are they insulated if so how?


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 10, 2017)

Well first off ir guns need to be used a certain way to be close to accurate. In order to get accurate readings, first you will need to wrap the area you are measuring in black electrical tape. The way that ir guns work is they measure the reflection of the signal back to them. If you are measuring something shiny like pex or copper the signal will bounce and give you bad readings. The other thing you need to do is place the gun right against the pipe and take the reading. The further away you get away from the object you are measuring a larger and larger area. The gun averages that large area and gives you a reading. 

Next, what do you have for underground pipe?

Now does the water from the supply side of the owb enter the discharge side of the water to air hx or does it enter the incoming side of the water to air hx? If you have the supply side entering the same side the air enters the hx and water exits the same side as the air discharges you will lose some discharge heat from the exchanger because the colder water is what touches the coil last. 

Finally did you ever try to purge the air out of the exchanger? They often times get air caught in them when filling. What size pump is on this? Larger pumps purge air more easily. Smaller ones are unlikely to purge the air. What I do to purge air is go to the owb and and close the return line ball valve and allow the pump to build pressure for two to three seconds and then quickly slam it open. You should hear some air bubble through the pipe. Continue to do this until you don't hear any more air bubbles.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 10, 2017)

Ok.. I thought it was set at 180.. but must have gotten turned to 160 in trouble shooting with the furnace guys I had visit...before turning it up and after applying black tape to pex... measured 140 outta the pump... 130 at the heat xc and 110 going back to the OWB...I have the underground green thermaplex pipe that I was told was the best... I Do not have the plex wrapped running from where the plex enters my basement to my xc which may cause some loss. Also tried purging like suggested.. couldn't really tell if it was doing anything... I have the 1/25 hp pump.. I'll update when it gets up to temp now that I've set it higher.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 10, 2017)

U guys have been really helpful and I appreciate it. Currently running 167 and 143 at XC.. gonna get some pipe insulation cause the air at the register feels like it could be a little warmer still.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 10, 2017)

Where is the pump located. What is the make and model of the pump? What do you register for temps coming out of the register with the IR gun. 105-120 and slow moving keeps you from getting the high and low heat swings in the house.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 10, 2017)

Have my furnace fan set to low.. the pump is a taco 007-f5 that's on the back of the OWB...temp at the register is 116 actually better than I thought... that's measuring the metal on the register I believe... shooting the air across the top of the register I get 97


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 10, 2017)

115 is perfect. Keeps the house from getting hot and cold swings. As long as the house doesn't lose temp at the coldest outside temps that you get you are good.


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## pernox (Dec 10, 2017)

Seems the fix here was removing the grate and changing aquastat setting? Just want to be clear for posterity, I bet someone else will get good use from this thread. Glad you're getting er done!

To get an accurate read on your pex, you may consider putting a probe against it and taping it in place, then add a piece of pipe insulation. I have a remote read meat thermometer on mine so I can get a read on line temps from upstairs - it's helpful.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 10, 2017)

pernox said:


> Seems the fix here was removing the grate and changing aquastat setting


Is it fixed?


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 10, 2017)

I would say it's adequate. I do not get the fiery inferno stihl kicking described nor do I believe it would burn green wood or unsplit logs. Is it getting to temp faster yes. Is it getting warmer in my house yes. But honestly I feel like I'm going thru wood fast because it doesn't make that inferno.. meaning that it burns longer than it should to get to temp. I'm about to go out and load it for the third time today and we're not into the fridged cold depths of winter yet.  Or? Am I asking for too much and this is typical?


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 10, 2017)

Please attach a video. Everyone has a video camera on their cell phone. We need to see what you are talking about.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 10, 2017)

Beegee0131 said:


> I would say it's adequate. I do not get the fiery inferno stihl kicking described nor do I believe it would burn green wood or unsplit logs. Is it getting to temp faster yes. Is it getting warmer in my house yes. But honestly I feel like I'm going thru wood fast because it doesn't make that inferno.. meaning that it burns longer than it should to get to temp. I'm about to go out and load it for the third time today and we're not into the fridged cold depths of winter yet.  Or? Am I asking for too much and this is typical?



Make no mistake about it these heaters burn a lot of wood, even down here in MS. The limited number of days we have with highs in the twenties I only have to completely fill mine twice a day. A average winter day here with a high of 40, lows in the upper twenties I fill mine about half to 3/4 full twice a day. This sufficiently heats 2700 sqft plus DHW. It’s hard to know without laying eyes on your setup exactly if or what your problem is. This is what your burns should look like if everything is running properly, the wood in this picture is unspilt and far from seasoned.
	

		
			
		

		
	








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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 10, 2017)

Yeap you will burn astronomical amounts. Think 12 cords.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)




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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

That's as big of a fire as I get. If I have as much wood in mine as you do in te box the flames would not engulf the wood like yours. It would only burn whats at the bottom of the pile and would be hard to see the flames...


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

Videos won't post and I'll try to get some pics of how it burns when fully stocked w wood tonight


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 11, 2017)

Open up the ash clean out door and see what happens with the fire. It should take right off hard. If not you are burning dripping wet wood with no coal bed.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

No it will ramp up if I open the ash door. I just felt like the blower should add enough fuel where I shouldn't have to open it...


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## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2017)

Are you able to get a close look at the gerbil wheel to see that the vanes are not filled with crud or any other buildup? 

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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 11, 2017)

Fred, good call! I didn't even give a thought to it but your absolutely right. I forgot about the fact that the fan blades  were notorious for getting all covered with dust. The dust will cause it to not move much air. Beejee, I was trying to diagnose the issue of lack of air or dripping wood. If you open the bottom door and it takes off then it's a lack of air issue. So take a compressed air nozzle and blow off the fan fins.


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## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2017)

Sometimes a blast of air won't do it. First thought is that ash dust coats the vanes but with an OWB it could be coated with dust from plant matter that turns into cement when drawn in with damp air. 
I've run into this in another application. 
Hardens in the V shape of the vane and effectively changes the shape of the vane .


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## pernox (Dec 11, 2017)

Crazy thought - any chance the vanes are directional and mounted backward? Or the fan wired wrong and running backward?


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

Squirrel cage was freshly cleaned before I started the OWB this year.. I actually had taken it apart and scraped the fins clean w a screw driver.. I'm trying to get that pic of in full and what the fire looks like but it's at temp at the moment..


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

First one was when I was loading w fan on... second is after loaded and running for two hours and fan on... third is fan on w door open but only open for like 5 seconds


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## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2017)

All the evidence narrowed the cause down to either a wood problem or an air problem then comes the bombshell. Beegee says "when I open the door it flairs up. Brings us to one problem. Not enough air!. Is the squirrel cage spinning on the shaft? Turning the right direction? Plugged internally.
Keep looking in this location.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

The logs appear to be charred like at some point it is getting a good fire w the door shut maybe I just caught it at the beginning of the fan.. idk.. it's only the second night since removing grates


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## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2017)

You'll know better tomorrow.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Dec 11, 2017)

Hmm. You must have missed it when I said that you need to let the ashes build up under the grates to keep the coals close to the wood. I wouldn't remove the grates. No way for the air to flow under the wood load anymore. You just have an air problem I believe. Pull off the fan and inspect it and make sure the damper door is opening when the fan turns on. Can you post some pics of the fan running? Clear any blockages from the tube.


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

Sorry hondaracer.. conflicting ideas.. a couple ppl suggested it... and I guess I should be more descriptive.. I only removed the center grates thinking that would get me closer to the coals and do exactly like ur describing still allowing air to get under...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 11, 2017)

I wonder if you could prove anything with an amperage reading on the fan? Most fans show the FLA rating on them, take a reading on this one when installed, and also when removed blowing free air, then compare.
The lower the amperage the less air its moving...


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

Unfortunately I'm in for the night.. sorry.. have newborn twins and am on dad duty.. I'll take some pics of the fan tomorrow and even measure amps for ya


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## brenndatomu (Dec 11, 2017)

I'm right there with ya...mamas sleeping while I take the end of second shift with the kiddos...baby girl just ate and is sleeping now so I think its time to go chuck some wood in the furnace and head to bed...
Congrats on the twins BTW...I can't imagine...


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 11, 2017)

Thanks!! And congrats to u also!


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## Fred61 (Dec 12, 2017)

I recall a paper I read that stated: Coal fires want the air beneath the fire and wood fires should have the air directed at the base of the fire.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 12, 2017)

Fred61 said:


> I recall a paper I read that stated: Coal fires want the air beneath the fire and wood fires should have the air directed at the base of the fire.


Wood burns pretty darn well with air under fire too...just doesn't last too long...poof, gone!
But, if you have to burn wet wood, air under fire is the best way to make some BTUs outta it...


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## Beegee0131 (Dec 12, 2017)

I come home from work today to a great fire and to lots of wood left in the box...the house is warm and the temps outside is 18 w a real feel of 5.. I'd say it's doing very well today and no need to trouble shoot.


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## StihlKicking (Dec 12, 2017)

Beegee0131 said:


> I come home from work today to a great fire and to lots of wood left in the box...the house is warm and the temps outside is 18 w a real feel of 5.. I'd say it's doing very well today and no need to trouble shoot.



Great! Maybe you won’t have anymore trouble. I will add that if you are new to this heater like lots of things in life there will be a small learning curve. Like how much wood it likes to be fed at a Time is very much dependent on the temperature, ect. ect. 


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## Spoon (Dec 21, 2017)

It sounds like you got it figured out.  I noticed with mine it does not like the ashes removed very often. I just watch the back draft door clean out to make sure air can get through.  I take a stick and push them back. With the pre epa Hardy system wood is rarely your problem if ever.


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