# Insulation Inside Stove



## BigV (May 12, 2007)

While cleaning my Regency Wood burning stove today preparing for its long summers nap, I found what appears to be fiberglass insulation inside, on the top section of my stove. There appears to be quite a lot of ash built-up on top of this insulation. Can this be safely removed and cleaned, or does it need replaced once it’s removed? What is the purpose of the insulation, and can the stove be safely operated without it?? 
Thank you.


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## R&D Guy (May 12, 2007)

Is this a wood or pellet stove?  I've seen mfg's use insulation material to help create an air tight seal between the bricks.  I'd just leave it alone especially if it is white.  My rule of thumb is that if it doesn't burn - it's more than likely hazardous to your health.


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## jtp10181 (May 12, 2007)

Usually this is an insulation blanket used to help the secondary burn process. In the units I have worked on it is very durable and long lasting, and removing it to dump all the crud off it is not a problem. You might want to consult with a Regency dealer or the manual though to verify. If it just below where the exhaust gasses out it would probably have to be removed to clean the chimney anyway.


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## titan (May 14, 2007)

Big V, how old is your stove?My Regency has no insulation, just the two ceramic baffles atop the burn tubes.


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## BigV (May 14, 2007)

Titan said:
			
		

> Big V, how old is your stove?My Regency has no insulation, just the two ceramic baffles atop the burn tubes.


It's only 1 year old. The insulation is located above the secondary burn tubes and can be seen when the black flu pipe is removed from the back of the stove. It looks like the insulation is held down by 3 metal pieces that just lay on top.


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## titan (May 14, 2007)

What model stove do you have?I'm not familiar with that setup in the Regency's.What you're describing sounds a bit like the "sandwich" construction in the P.E.'s top baffle.


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## BigV (May 15, 2007)

Titan said:
			
		

> What model stove do you have?I'm not familiar with that setup in the Regency's.What you're describing sounds a bit like the "sandwich" construction in the P.E.'s top baffle.



The stove I have is a Regency Model H2100. It is an insert, but has been installed as a free standing stove. I looked at my owner’s manual and it's called the "baffle insulation" and sits on top of the steel baffle plate. The insulation is held in place by 3 "insulation weights". The manual only says “make sure the insulation is lying flat and does not obstruct the smoke from getting up the flue opening". I can not find any information explaining what the insulation is for, or if the stove can be operated without it.


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## Jay H (May 15, 2007)

BigV said:
			
		

> Titan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I look inside my Quad 3100, I can see what looks like whitish fiberglass insulation on top of the secondary burn tubes... I don't recall reading anything about it in the manual but I might have forgotten... I'm having a flue cleaning in a week or so I could ask the tech..

Jay


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## Andre B. (May 15, 2007)

BigV said:
			
		

> I can not find any information explaining what the insulation is for, or if the stove can be operated without it.



It is there to control the where the heat is removed from the hot combustion gases.  The part of the stove with the fire needs to stay hot to burn properly, if too much heat is removed directly from the fire the secondary burning will be quenched resulting in more unburned fuel going up the stack and more creosote formation.

The insulation on top of the baffle plate helps keep the secondary burn going with a slower fire.


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## thechimneysweep (May 15, 2007)

The material Regency and Quad uses is a blanket made of spun ceramic fiber called Cera Blanket.  According to the manufacturer's rep, if a nuclear incident were to melt your stove down to a puddle of goo, you'd find the blanket floating on top, unharmed.

The blanket is there to reflect heat back down at the fire to ensure secondary lightoff temperatures.  It can be frayed, dirty and even torn, but if you put it back so it all fits together, it will still do its job.


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## R&D Guy (May 17, 2007)

thechimneysweep said:
			
		

> The material Regency and Quad uses is a blanket made of spun ceramic fiber called Cera Blanket.  According to the manufacturer's rep, if a nuclear incident were to melt your stove down to a puddle of goo, you'd find the blanket floating on top, unharmed.
> 
> The blanket is there to reflect heat back down at the fire to ensure secondary lightoff temperatures.  It can be frayed, dirty and even torn, but if you put it back so it all fits together, it will still do its job.



Yikes!  Cerablanket is a Kaowool product which is recognized by several agencies including good-ole California as a chemical known to cause cancer by inhalation.  I wouldn't use a vacume to suck the ash off of it because you may end up blowing fine pieces of Cerablanket into your house, or damage the blanket itself.   If I had that in my woodstove, I'd clean it carefully with a mask on a cold night so there was a draft in the flue - that way fine particles would likely get sucked up the flue.

MSDS 
http://www.thermalceramics.com/literature/201.pdf

my $0.02


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## BigV (May 18, 2007)

Thanks for all the replys.


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## Corie (May 18, 2007)

I have a few sheets of that stuff at home and it came with about three warning cards regarding the dangerous fine particulates that come from handling the stuff.  Needless to say, it stays wrapped in plastic in a box until I need it.


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## Shane (May 18, 2007)

8 years as a chimney sweep I figure I'm good as dead by 40.  While in the past couple years I try to be sure to use the respirator and always wear gloves etc.  But for the first bit I was constantly covered in soot and inhaling all kinds of hazardous particulates etc.  I always try to explain very clearly to new hires the dangers etc and that the safety equipment is there for their protection not to hinder them.  When I started  I was told "yeah it's not too good for you" but didn't have someone actually sit down and genuninely explain the hazardous nature of the materials I was dealing with.


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## R&D Guy (May 19, 2007)

Shane said:
			
		

> 8 years as a chimney sweep I figure I'm good as dead by 40. While in the past couple years I try to be sure to use the respirator and always wear gloves etc. But for the first bit I was constantly covered in soot and inhaling all kinds of hazardous particulates etc. I always try to explain very clearly to new hires the dangers etc and that the safety equipment is there for their protection not to hinder them. When I started I was told "yeah it's not too good for you" but didn't have someone actually sit down and genuninely explain the hazardous nature of the materials I was dealing with.



Shane I know your situation. I worked with a contractor who spec'd Kaowool insulation in a gas fireplace. I wasn't comfortable with the media, so during the prototype build I installed the material inside a sealed off welding booth with a respirator and a Puff-Daddy jump suit. While there is the potential to injure the consumer, I also think of the guy on the line who is going to be exposed to the hazard not only everyday, but with every unit that is built in the factory. First priority was to rid our design of this cancer, and we found a bio-degradable equivalent. While it was twice as expensive I sleep easy at night knowing that someone's life isn't going to be cut short for a little profit margin.

My $0.02


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## colsmith (May 22, 2007)

We have a similar kind of insulation blanket in our stove above the baffles.  In the list of parts it just says "ceramic blanket."  Does anybody know what Hearthstone uses in their stoves.  I am wondering if it is the same stuff that is so dangerous to handle.  We don't mess with it much, but we do see/encounter it when cleaning the stove and chimney.


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## R&D Guy (May 22, 2007)

Some Like It Hot said:
			
		

> We have a similar kind of insulation blanket in our stove above the baffles.  In the list of parts it just says "ceramic blanket."  Does anybody know what Hearthstone uses in their stoves.  I am wondering if it is the same stuff that is so dangerous to handle.  We don't mess with it much, but we do see/encounter it when cleaning the stove and chimney.



Well you could always ask the Mfg. for the MSDS.  Have them email, or fax it to you.  They're either cough it right up, or you'll hear the guy trip over himself as he tries to ask why.  :D  The MSDS will also tell you how fine of a dust mask, or respirator you'll need to help avoid inhailing any of it.  They may also have a procedure, or suggestions for cleaning it although they'll likely tell you to call your dealer, or a certified sweep to clean it.


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## Rhone (May 22, 2007)

Hearthstone doesn't use the same stuff, or if they do they use a different technique with it.  They use a ceramic insulation "board".  I'm familiar with it, as I broke mine on my Hearthstone Clydesdale and I had to replace it.  The white insulation they're talking about is very different and is very similar to fiberglass but after working with it you know it is NOT good for you.  I don't know how bad that white insulation is, California has laws that require pretty much everything to say it's cancerous or causes birth defects but after working with it my body was telling me this is some bad stuff.  

Hearthstone uses a compressed ceramic "board" with adhesives that bind it and hold it together and it seems to be covered in paint.  When I purchased mine, they just handed me the board already pre-formed and shaped and covered in a protective coating, without any box.  You can break Hearthstones insulation it being a board, I shattered mine into 3 pieces when I went to lift my baffle out and didn't realize it wasn't metal above the tubes.  I put my hands on the insulation and pushed it up to lift it out, and my fingers went right through it.  Oops!  The way Hearthstone does it, is unlikely to cause fibers to come out and even after a season the ceramic board is held together firm.  It can't hurt to try to protect yourself, but I don't think it's near as bad as the white fluffy stuff.  Hearthstones is either much safer as their insulation is held together tight (and it is a board) than the white stuff they're talking about or Hearthstones insulation board is an entirely different product.


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## Highbeam (May 22, 2007)

I looked into the rear end of a Hearthstone just last week and saw a big cloud of puffy white insluation barely low enough to prevent clogging the horizontal outlet flue. It was either a phoenix or some other smaller wood stove and not a heritage. It is a model by model shift. I would much rather have the fragile board than the loose fiber that looks to nearly get in the way of good draft.


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## Rhone (May 22, 2007)

Highbeam, you're right the Hearthstone Phoenix does have a ceramic blanket.  None of the other models have it from what I could see in the manuals, the other models talk about the ceramic board.


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## Highbeam (May 22, 2007)

Thanks Rhone, I've had my head in a hearthstone a lot lately.


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## R&D Guy (May 23, 2007)

I think the board is safer too, and sealing it with paint also helps IMO.


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## VT-Woodburner (May 23, 2007)

When I had my "real" job in the steel fabrication business, we worked extensively with Kaowool blankets. The product is used in power plants for just what it is meant. Insulation. What you must do is wear a dust mask and work gloves when handling the product as the fine particles will get into your lungs and cause irritation. But will it cause cancer like asbestos? Not unless you're handling it 40 hours a week for 20 years with no respiratory protection. 

My old Avalon Regency had a ceramic blanket on the baffle. Ceramic artists who make porcelain use it as "prop" in the kiln to steady the ware during the 2000 degree firing.


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