# Blaze King - how often have you changed your CAT?



## Asoul (Jan 10, 2012)

Hi all

Looking at a blaze king princess woodstove and wondering how often does a catalytic converter need to be changed?

Considering if the cost of the stove ($2900) and required maintenance ($cat) is worth the expense compared to say an efficient secondary burn stove like a PE Super 27.

Thanks for your input.


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## jeff_t (Jan 10, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/85992/ might answer your question.

$2900 seems a bit steep on that side. That's almost east coast pricing, though I don't know how the Canadian dollar thing works out. 

Any Blaze King owner will tell you to buy it, you won't be disappointed. The King is definitely more stove than I need, but the controlled long burns are amazing, and it suits our somewhat busy life perfectly. Tell us a bit about your home and heating needs.

Welcome, by the way.


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## rdust (Jan 10, 2012)

My stove doesn't need a cat yet or anytime soon but I would be willing to replace it every year if I had to.  To me the stove is that good!  I think North of 60 is on his 5th or 6th season with his.  If you burn 24/7 and take care of it I think 3-4 years is more typical before the cat will start losing performance.


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## ohlongarm (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks for saying that, I feel the same way.


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## BKVP (Jan 10, 2012)

Happy New Year To All My Fellow Wood Burners!

In response to this question of the lifespan of catalytic combustor, the EPA asked the very same question. The Catalytic Hearth Coalition engaged OMNI Environmental Test Labs (an EPA certified test lab) to do a study to address the EPA's questions.

The results of that study are posted at: http://www.chc-hpba.org/

In a nutshell "years" is not the determining factor to the longevity of a combustor life span. In fact, it is hours of exposure or use and a few other little issues such as fuel, gasket maintenance, misuse (like cleaning with a gun brush!) etc.

It is not uncommon at all to see combustor work at 80% of their capacity well into 8+ years. In some warmer regions with limited use, we have seen them last 14 years.

The fact is, not all catalytic wood stoves are designed the same in regards to combustion design, so certainly there are some that do not last as long. (Relative to hours of exposure.)

Blaze King made, way back in 1983, a Hybrid Wood Stove that featured secondary air tubes and a catalytic combustor. Owners of those stove have reported seeing combustors lasting longer than a decade, again subject to hours of use.


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## jeff_t (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey, he's back. Your posts in the thread I linked above were what I meant for the OP to see.


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## BKVP (Jan 10, 2012)

The aliens took me away but didn't like my suggestions so they brought me back!

Chris


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## rdust (Jan 10, 2012)

BKVP said:
			
		

> The aliens took me away but didn't like my suggestions so they brought me back!
> 
> Chris



So it is true!  These stoves burn so well due to alien technology!  :lol:


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## BKInsert (Jan 11, 2012)

Asoul said:
			
		

> Hi all
> 
> Looking at a blaze king princess woodstove and wondering how often does a catalytic converter need to be changed?
> 
> ...



Its funny, or sad..., but a cord of wood here on the east cost, costs ~$250, the price of a CAT is about the same... I think with a BK you can save about a cord, or more, a year so its a wash - that is IF you replace it every year, which you don't need to.


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## Asoul (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

The stove is to go into an underinsulated, drafty 1200sq ft rancher with a somewhat open floor plan.

I guess I should add that the house belongs to my parents and will be replacing a old (Enterprise) cookstove that would take as much wood as you could feed it. The only plus about the stove was that it had excellent flue temps - as most of the heat went straight out the chimney ;-) (in fact I would only clean the chimney once every 3 years for a handful of ash/creasote).

Although, I am leaning towards the PE Super for it's straight forward operation. My mom is getting older and she was used to regulating temp with the amount wood you shovelled in the old stove. I have a feeling with the BK she would be opening the door every 1/2 hour to see why there are no flames or she might not wait for the cat to heat up and engage, thereby running it like a conventional stove.


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## mdaniel (Feb 29, 2012)

Well I have been thinkng about a Blaze King stove due to the wonderful reviews on this forum. I would like to purchase a stove and have it installed anytime before next winter. To perform due diligence on the actual install I called around to local chimney sweeps in the general area (central mass) to have them come out and take a look at my layout. Anyway I got a call back tonight from one of them and he said to stay clear of any CAT stove as they are junk and create more creosote in the chimney than non-CAT. This guy was quite adamant to go with an EPA stove, but one that is not a CAT. BTW, this guy has never heard of BK, but also said stay away from soapstone (he recommends quadrafire and progressive?).
Anyway from someone that owns a CAT stove:
1. How long does a CAT usually last?
2. How difficult is it to take out and clean the CAT?
3. Does a CAT stove burn dirtier than a non-CAT stove?

Any recommendations, because I was all set to buy a CAT stove and really like the idea of being able to regulate the burn and temp in the BK. I do not know of anyone that owns a CAT stove, so I need as much advice (pros/cons) of owning a CAT or not. Thanks.

Mark


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## jeff_t (Feb 29, 2012)

1. Was answered in a nutshell in post #4 above. Depends on how much you use it, and how you treat it.
2. I've never taken mine out. I've brushed the face of it with a very soft paintbrush. I've also passed the shop vac very carefully,  very closely across the front and back of it. This works well to remove fly ash.
3. Balls out, wide open burning, a non cat is usually cleaner. Low burn rate is where the cat stove shines. I brushed my chimney after two months of mostly smoldering burns, and got about a cup of dusty soot. I have more creosote inside the firebox than the chimney. 
You won't be disappointed by the performance of a Blaze King. It's an incredibly easy stove to operate. Like all EPA stoves, dry wood is the key to happy burning.
Feel free to share a little about your house and layout.


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## mdaniel (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks for the reply jeff_t.

My house is a ranch style home, newly built in 2010, so the house is pretty tight. The placement of the stove would be at one end of the house and in the "great room". The great room is ~1,000 sq ft and that is my living room, kitchen and dining room all as one large open floor plan with cathedral ceiling. 
My main thought on getting the BKK is that it burns clean, so the class A chimney that would be installed should remain fairly clean and I can better regulate the stove temp so not to heat us out of the house. When that chimney sweep told me that CAT stoves burn dirtier and require more frequent cleanings I was floored. Everything I have read on this site staes that CAT stoves are clean, as long as you are burning good, seasoned wood. I just want to make sure that I am making the right decision. BK's are not cheap, especially here in Massachusetts.


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## bogydave (Feb 29, 2012)

Heat2012 said:
			
		

> Anyway from someone that owns a CAT stove:
> 1. How long does a CAT usually last?
> 2. How difficult is it to take out and clean the CAT?
> 3. Does a CAT stove burn dirtier than a non-CAT stove?
> ...



1. Use determines life of the combustor. One study I read said 10k to 12k hours but didn't report what efficiency they used to determine it was time for replacement.

2. I changed mine, took a few minutes, bought it from BK dealer so it was old one out, some cleaning & new one in. 
I put in a ceramic, original in the stove was Stainless steel. New one came with gasket taped on so all I had to do was slide it into place.
Some have posted that the ceramic ones are brittle & break very easy when taking them out.
My "learning curve" plugged the SS one. Now I have it  as a spare, ready to go. 
Ref post when I replaced it:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/70546/

3. Buy all studies I've read, cats are the cleanest burning. Rated high by the EPA.
Ref EPA rated wood stoves, emissions & efficiency chart:
http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

I reduced my wood consumption by more than 40% when I went to the BK-K Cat stove. (9-10 cord per yr to 5 - 6 cord per yr.)
Cleaner burning, better control, more better heat in the house not up the chimney.
Took a while to learn to burn with a cat stove, the operations manual instructions were good (when I finally read them).
I get well over 20 hour burns with good  heat output the whole time on outside temps above 20Â°f,
Shorter burn times when sub zero temps ( 12 hour is about the shortest) but really cranking out the heat for 12 hours

Dry wood is key. I found 2 years to season birch & I get real good performance, 1 year seasoned (recommended) did OK,  The 2 + year seasoned, dry wood is a very noticeable difference.


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## fdegree (Feb 29, 2012)

Heat2012 said:
			
		

> Anyway from someone that owns a CAT stove:
> 1. How long does a CAT usually last?



As others have mentioned, BKVP answered this question in this post...Chris - VP of Blaze King



> 2. How difficult is it to take out and clean the CAT?



It is very easy to remove.  A perforated steel plate, intended to prevent flame impingement, can easily be removed with no tools.  This will give you access to the cat.  You may need a flat blade screwdriver to help pry the cat out of it's housing.  But, this is not difficult at all...I can have my cat out in less than 1 minute.  As for cleaning...if you burn good, dry wood you should not have to remove the cat to clean it.  According to BKVP...get a hot fire going, and the cat glowing, this usually will keep the cat clean.



> 3. Does a CAT stove burn dirtier than a non-CAT stove?



Based upon everything I have read, the answer would be "No".  Last winter was my first season burning wood, and I did not have ideal wood to burn.  The wood I had was averaging around 25% moisture content...less than 20% is recommended.  After nearly 4 months of 24/7 burning, I brushed my chimney and got maybe 1/4 - 1/2 cup of black flakes.  My chimney is around 25' overall length.


Based upon the chimney sweeps suggestions, I would say that...not all cat stoves are created equal.  I have no regrets spending the money on the BK King.


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## weatherguy (Feb 29, 2012)

The sweep doesnt know what hes talking about, not sure if hes repeating things hes heard or hes cleaned dirty flues that burned a cat stove but if run properly it will be as clean as a secondary burner.


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## billb3 (Feb 29, 2012)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Heat2012 said:
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So, how many years did you get out of the original ?


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## SolarAndWood (Feb 29, 2012)

I put 20 cord through my stove before it was not lighting off quite the way it was before.  I ordered and installed a spare.  The original will get cleaned up, wrapped in the package that the replacement came in and sit on the shelf until the replacement reaches that point.  Delivered cost was $259 for the combustor and installation was trivial.  Here's the whole story.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/89860/


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## mdaniel (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks all. I just found it strange that a guy that cleans chimneys for a living would tell me to steer clear of CAT stoves. He did say several times that he is not familiar with BK, in fact he has never heard of them. He stated he has been cleaning chimneys for about 15 years and notices that CAT stoves produce more creosote. I think dry wood is the #1 factor.
This guy does not a have any axes to grind with any brand of stoves as he does not sell them, he just cleans chimneys and installs liners, etc.. I definitely want a BK for the longer burn times, ability to better regulate stove temps and hopefully be cleaner or at least as clean as any comparable stove. He made a point of saying that CATs need to be cleaned about 3x per year? I think much of this is due to poor wood. I am not sure if burning low would make the CAT any dirtier or plug up faster. This winter has been out of the ordinary, so I would imagine a lot of BK owners on here have burned at a lower temp than normal. Has this warm winter with lower burns affected any BK Cats or made the chimney any dirtier than normal? Doesn't sound like it to me from what I have read on this forum. I think his main point is that a CAT stove burns "cooler" and with that the chimney does not get as hot and creates more creosote build up.

BTW I still will be getting that BK, most likely installed over the summer.


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## SolarAndWood (Feb 29, 2012)

I lightly brush the face of the combustor off once a month or so.  It is a 90 second easy job.  Not sure why but it seems like I get more on the face when rockin and rollin than when burning low.  It may just be that more material is going through it.


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## fdegree (Feb 29, 2012)

Heat2012 said:
			
		

> I think much of this is due to poor wood.



I think you have nailed it...it's the wood.  When I talk to local people that burn wood stoves, they seem puzzled by the idea of truly dry wood, or they don't want to be bothered with keeping wood on hand to season fully.

Also, the folks your sweep is encountering may not be operating their cat stoves properly.  From what I have read on this forum, a cat stove is operated differently from a non-cat stove...but it is certainly not difficult at all.  You just have to learn the process.

I can tell you from experience...you are in the right place, and getting quality information right here on this forum.



> BTW I still will be getting that BK, most likely installed over the summer.



You won't be disappointed as long you use dry wood.


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## clemsonfor (Feb 29, 2012)

Heat2012 said:
			
		

> Thanks all. I just found it strange that a guy that cleans chimneys for a living would tell me to steer clear of CAT stoves. He did say several times that he is not familiar with BK, in fact he has never heard of them. He stated he has been cleaning chimneys for about 15 years and notices that CAT stoves produce more creosote. I think dry wood is the #1 factor.
> This guy does not a have any axes to grind with any brand of stoves as he does not sell them, he just cleans chimneys and installs liners, etc.. I definitely want a BK for the longer burn times, ability to better regulate stove temps and hopefully be cleaner or at least as clean as any comparable stove. He made a point of saying that CATs need to be cleaned about 3x per year? I think much of this is due to poor wood. I am not sure if burning low would make the CAT any dirtier or plug up faster. This winter has been out of the ordinary, so I would imagine a lot of BK owners on here have burned at a lower temp than normal. Has this warm winter with lower burns affected any BK Cats or made the chimney any dirtier than normal? Doesn't sound like it to me from what I have read on this forum. I think his main point is that a CAT stove burns "cooler" and with that the chimney does not get as hot and creates more creosote build up.
> 
> BTW I still will be getting that BK, most likely installed over the summer.



That would be true if there was much of anything left in the exhaust of a CAT stove to Crosote up on a chimney. They do run lower temps and volume is my guess due to running at a lower draft but they reburn 90% or the creosote causing stuff out of the smoke before it leaves.  

If you get the CAT up to say 1500F every so often and keep it there for a few hours at least you will burn most stuff off.

I have a CAT stove and this is my first full season running it as it was installed in FEB 2011.  My CATs are easy to pull out, there is a plate that is in the top of the stove with 4 nuts to pull off of some threaded studs. The top plate and cats come out with it as one unit. I did pull them prior to burning and sucked just a tiny amout of ash from around them. This season i have not touched them and they still light off fine, and with good large load can hit north of 1700F if i let um.


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## bogydave (Feb 29, 2012)

billb3 said:
			
		

> bogydave said:
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Had about 8 months of burn time on it. smaller holes & I plugged it, not burning hot & ash.
Original is still good, 
I plugged it with spruce ash, after I pulled it I replaced it with a ceramic one. (larger holes)
I put the SS one on the shelf as a spare after cleaning it.


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## ohlongarm (Feb 29, 2012)

Dumb question how do you clean the back of the cat,I've cleaned the front but can't seem to get to the back of it,what an i missing?


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## jeff_t (Feb 29, 2012)

ohlongarm said:
			
		

> Dumb question how do you clean the back of the cat,I've cleaned the front but can't seem to get to the back of it,what an i missing?



Pull the pipe off.


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## HotCoals (Feb 29, 2012)

I don't know if I should post this here..but here goes.

 Been noticing my stack temps have been climbing the last month or so..most notably on firing a fresh load.
So when the stove was somewhat cool I opened the bypass and felt around where the gasket is..or should be.
I know that the right side is totally gone and I'm pretty sure some of the other sides are missing some.
Explains my higher stack temps when firing off a load after the by-pass is closed.
Also maybe a week or so ago I was brushing off the cat..which btw has stayed really clean but at that moment I noticed it was lose.
I took the cat out with no prob..could not see any remains of the original gasket..not 2 seasons on this stove yet.
The cat still lights off good and seems to burn fine till later in the burn then she is falling short.
I have more coals at the end of my 12 hour cycle then I use to have.

So far since Oct. of 2010 I have had the paint issue which I repainted the top and now the gaskets.
I never run this stove real hot..not even on reload to get it to temp.
I try to take it up slowly and have good success.
I would still buy it over again.
I have the link for the cat gasket but not sure what I need to buy for the by-pass.

Cat gasket.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320445247104#ht_500wt_922


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## weatherguy (Feb 29, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> I don't know if I should post this here..but here goes.
> 
> Been noticing my stack temps have been climbing the last month or so..most notably on firing a fresh load.
> So when the stove was somewhat cool I opened the bypass and felt around where the gasket is..or should be.
> ...



I was talking to Keith at BK yesterday about that gasket because it looks like a nightmare to replace, I thought I had a problem with mine but its ok, now I know how to do it when the time comes. He did say that rope should last many years so I wonder if something went awry somewhere with yours. I would give them a call and ask for Keith.
It looks like they're improving their web site for technical repairs and such, thats one complaint I have with them, the stove itself is awesome but their quality control is iffy. They're always willing to help so I give them credit there.
Turns out my cats dead and the company sent me the wrong one so right now Im not burning until the right ones delivered and we're all freezing, I woke up this morning with three cats on top of me.


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## HotCoals (Feb 29, 2012)

Once I get the gasket for the by-pass I think it would not be to hard to change with the pipe out of it..I could be wrong.


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## weatherguy (Feb 29, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> Once I get the gasket for the by-pass I think it would not be to hard to change with the pipe out of it..I could be wrong.



Yours should be fairly easy, I have the insert but they make it so I can remove the cat and get at it that way, that way you dont have to pull the stove out.


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## HotCoals (Mar 1, 2012)

weatherguy said:
			
		

> HotCoals said:
> 
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I could prolly do it with just the cat out also..but looks harder to reach in.


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## Val2 (Dec 27, 2015)

BKVP said:


> ... Blaze King made, way back in 1983, a Hybrid Wood Stove that featured secondary air tubes and a catalytic combustor. Owners of those stove have reported seeing combustors lasting longer than a decade, again subject to hours of use.



I have that 1983 model.


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## BKVP (Dec 27, 2015)

Send me some pictures. ...


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## Val2 (Dec 27, 2015)

BKVP said:


> Send me some pictures. ...


The exterior is my profile pic. Do you want interior and the back plate?


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## BKVP (Dec 27, 2015)

An interior shot would be great.  Nice looking guard dogs!  The door on your stove is a bit on the rare side. Those old Princess models did well with 8" chimney too.  Where in AK do you reside?


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## Val2 (Dec 27, 2015)

BKVP said:


> An interior shot would be great.  Nice looking guard dogs!  The door on your stove is a bit on the rare side. Those old Princess models did well with 8" chimney too.  Where in AK do you reside?


Lol! Thank you! Okay, here's an interior shot... I know I need new bricks, they're on the list. 
I'm located in the Kenai Peninsula Borough, south of Anchorage.


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## Val2 (Dec 27, 2015)

We've been doing everything wrong; we've been burning paper, aluminum cans and wood that wasn't seasoned. We were told there was "something on the roof that we were supposed to clean," so my husband removed the bolt and tried to remove the "round thing with clogged honeycombs." It wouldn't come out so he hit on it with the poker to try to clean it.  smh 
So here I am... taking an online course, learning about our wood stove and what NOT to do after we've done it.  
I have my list of things to order. The pounding did help, apparently. It's burning better and we are excited to know what to do to help it burn even better.


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## aansorge (Dec 27, 2015)

Big, huge fan of Blaze King stoves here...but I know they produce more creosote than a tube stove as I have both.  The Blaze king gets a sweep twice a year while the tube stove could get away with once every 5 years even when burning full time ( I did for two years and got basically zero creosote).

Still, the Blaze King is the one that burns non-stop while the tube stove (actually a high-efficiency fireplace) is a supplemental heat source on really cold days. The Blaze king stoves are just so easy to run.  Deeeeeep belly (9 inches on the king) allows for once a month ash removal and it just keeps on chugging for hours and hours at a steady heat output. The tube stove seems more finicky with air settings (how soon to turn it down and how much seems to vary load to load) whereas the Blaze king seems very consistent. 

I'm more than willing to sweep a chimney twice a year for all the benefits of the Blaze KIng. 

One last thing: my house is much cleaner with the blaze king.  Why? Fewer loads per day plus with the bypass, ash never floats out during reloads vs. my tube stove.  I'm sure my air quality is immensely better now that I run a king.


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## BKVP (Dec 28, 2015)

aansorge said:


> Big, huge fan of Blaze King stoves here...but I know they produce more creosote than a tube stove as I have both.  The Blaze king gets a sweep twice a year while the tube stove could get away with once every 5 years even when burning full time ( I did for two years and got basically zero creosote).
> 
> Still, the Blaze King is the one that burns non-stop while the tube stove (actually a high-efficiency fireplace) is a supplemental heat source on really cold days. The Blaze king stoves are just so easy to run.  Deeeeeep belly (9 inches on the king) allows for once a month ash removal and it just keeps on chugging for hours and hours at a steady heat output. The tube stove seems more finicky with air settings (how soon to turn it down and how much seems to vary load to load) whereas the Blaze king seems very consistent.
> 
> ...


As circumstances would have it, my experience is the polar opposite.   My chimney on my King stays much cleaner than the non cat we had.  I get, over 18', about 1/2 gallon every year or two.


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## BKVP (Dec 28, 2015)

Val2 said:


> Lol! Thank you! Okay, here's an interior shot... I know I need new bricks, they're on the list.
> I'm located in the Kenai Peninsula Borough, south of Anchorage.


Thank you for the picture.  I drive around ol' Turnigan Arm a few times every year, visiting dealers....which really means fishing!


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2015)

aansorge said:


> Big, huge fan of Blaze King stoves here...but I know they produce more creosote than a tube stove as I have both.



I agree, double the creo production with the BK as with my hearthstone non-cat on the same hearth. It's still low accumulation and easily once per year sweeping.

This year my burning has been much cleaner with the steelcat so maybe it will be less.

Maybe it just depends on which non-cat you had.


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## BKVP (Dec 28, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> I agree, double the creo production with the BK as with my hearthstone non-cat on the same hearth. It's still low accumulation and easily once per year sweeping.
> 
> This year my burning has been much cleaner with the steelcat so maybe it will be less.
> 
> Maybe it just depends on which non-cat you had.


And moisture content and burning habits are key.


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2015)

BKVP said:


> And moisture content and burning habits are key.



I suspect the non-cat with the super high flue temps would be much more tolerant of wet fuel with regards to flue accumulations. If you cool the flue gasses but run the same amount of water through the stove, the cat stove's flue would certainly show more gunk.

That's the point. All things being equal, the cat stove would make more creosote and it does in my experience and apparently others as well.


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## rdust (Dec 28, 2015)

aansorge said:


> Big, huge fan of Blaze King stoves here...but I know they produce more creosote than a tube stove as I have both.  The Blaze king gets a sweep twice a year while the tube stove could get away with once every 5 years even when burning full time ( I did for two years and got basically zero creosote).
> 
> Still, the Blaze King is the one that burns non-stop while the tube stove (actually a high-efficiency fireplace) is a supplemental heat source on really cold days. The Blaze king stoves are just so easy to run.  Deeeeeep belly (9 inches on the king) allows for once a month ash removal and it just keeps on chugging for hours and hours at a steady heat output. The tube stove seems more finicky with air settings (how soon to turn it down and how much seems to vary load to load) whereas the Blaze king seems very consistent.
> 
> ...



Same experience here, first two seasons with a Lopi non cat and a first/second year wood burner wood supply.(not great). Five seasons with the Princess burning primo wood(3/4 year plan).  I sweep after the shoulder season and when the shoulder season starts again. 

Same sweep schedule as the non cat but the non cat was much cleaner.(much higher flue temps) Mostly light brown and fluffy, BK is black and sooty.  The BK runs circles around the non cat in every other way though.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 29, 2015)

Val2 said:


> Lol! Thank you! Okay, here's an interior shot... I know I need new bricks, they're on the list.
> I'm located in the Kenai Peninsula Borough, south of Anchorage.



My sister and brother-in-law used to live down on the Kenai . . . specifically Portage (near Girdwood) . . . almost across from the wildlife refuge (I forget the name of it . . . I know they have changed the name of it at least once from the first time I visited.)


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## BKVP (Dec 29, 2015)

firefighterjake said:


> My sister and brother-in-law used to live down on the Kenai . . . specifically Portage (near Girdwood) . . . almost across from the wildlife refuge (I forget the name of it . . . I know they have changed the name of it at least once from the first time I visited.)


I was there once and a lady dropped her keys through the fence with the kodiak bears. They had to wait until feeding time to retreive the keys lest the bears dine on the keepers.


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