# TED pro



## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 27, 2017)

Has anybody ever gotten one of these systems installed? I had read a thread (that rhymes) on here from 2012. Did some investigating and the reviews seem pretty good.


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## Lake Girl (Feb 27, 2017)

Is this what you are referring to?  http://www.theenergydetective.com/prohome  Moved your thread to the green room...


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

Lake Girl said:


> Is this what you are referring to?  http://www.theenergydetective.com/prohome  Moved your thread to the green room...


Yes it is!


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

Thejacksonfamily7 said:


> Yes it is!


Do you have anymore insight on this unit? A little history on my question. 
 I installed a austraflamm pellet stove FS upstairs in my 3300 sq ft home a while ago to go along with my electric furnace and heat pump. The furnace and heat pump work the whole house. I had a wood burner down stairs at the time also. 
   The wood burner wasn't efficient to say the least and my power bills were through the roof. So I installed a Harmon insert in its place. Power usage stayed the same( as the power company stated on the bill). Last year my furnace fan went out and we were just using pellet stoves to heat with(turned all breakers off to the electric furnace and pump). Fast forward a year and we are still using only the pellet stoves and power usage is the same  
  If this monitoring system works as it says it might be worth it to help find my issue or issues that I am having?

Thanks in advance for the patience of reading this and I hope it is understandable.


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## Lake Girl (Feb 28, 2017)

Not familiar with the system but you have the same electric usage even though the furnace/heat pump is shut down?  You either missed something on shut-down, added something to increase usage and forgot about the addition, power company only estimating bill (or equalized billing), fees/cost increases.  Do you have fluctuations during the year to account for AC or other large usage items?

If no response to your thread, try PM to one of the members that were involved in the other TED discussions...  Good luck!

PS:  How old is the actual house meter?  Could request utility company to verify accuracy.  Have you been reading meter to check that it concurs with the billing?


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

Lake Girl said:


> Not familiar with the system but you have the same electric usage even though the furnace/heat pump is shut down?  You either missed something on shut-down, added something to increase usage and forgot about the addition, power company only estimating bill (or equalized billing), fees/cost increases.  Do you have fluctuations during the year to account for AC or other large usage items?
> 
> If no response to your thread, try PM to one of the members that were involved in the other TED discussions...  Good luck!
> 
> PS:  How old is the actual house meter?  Could request utility company to verify accuracy.  Have you been reading meter to check that it concurs with the billing?




The house was built in 2008. It's out of city limits. The meter is 2008 also. Yes the energy usage is the same without the furnace and heat pump during the winter months. During the summer it cuts down more than half (500$ to 200$ avg a month). There has been no additions or extra power usage in the past 11 years now. Have made a few energy saving upgrades (pellet stoves, better seal to the outside doors etc). 
Thanks for your input so far.


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

Thejacksonfamily7 said:


> The house was built in 2008. It's out of city limits. The meter is 2008 also. Yes the energy usage is the same without the furnace and heat pump during the winter months. During the summer it cuts down more than half (500$ to 200$ avg a month). There has been no additions or extra power usage in the past 11 years now. Have made a few energy saving upgrades (pellet stoves, better seal to the outside doors etc).
> Thanks for your input so far.


Oops. 9 years


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 28, 2017)

Short answer: yes TED Pro is one of a couple devices that can do what you're asking. You probably want both the basic kit and a Spyder.

Long answer:

I've looked at it quite a bit, but not bought one so far, as my power bill is not quite far enough from my expectations to convince me to spend the money on a good monitor. I can discuss features, but not really the user experience. They require working inside your electrical panel to install. For TED, you clamp two split core current transformers ("CT" or some people call them "donuts") on each incoming power leg, and you attach a wire to your neutral busbar, and one more to a breaker to power it and give it a voltage reference for calculating power usage accurately. You can also hire an electrician to install it.

The basic TED Pro kit monitors two wires, normally your incoming mains power. If you want to monitor branch circuits, you buy one of their Spyder kits, which are available with 8 additional donuts and the electronic unit to read them. These are not quite as sensitive or accurate as the main CT's - 7% rated accuracy vs 2% - but should be good enough for tracking what circuits are using the bulk of your power. 120V circuits require 1 donut. 240v circuits usually are ok with 1 donut, but depending whether power is used evenly on each leg (heat pumps and hot tubs are two examples where this is not always the case), 2 donuts may give you better accuracy.

Data is transmitted over the powerlines to their Gateway / ECC. Some people with noisy powerlines or powerline based home automation systems may have trouble with it. With the ECC plugged into ethernet, you can view the data via a web browser, upload it to TED's website for later review there, download it to your computer, or you can buy a handheld monitor to view it on.

Obnoxiously, I sent TED a couple technical questions a few months ago, and they never even acknowledged my email. That makes me wonder about their overall customer service.

There are a couple other options available, too.

A couple people on the forum here own Efergy monitors. They're one of the most affordable on the market. The basic kit only monitors one circuit and only displays data on the handheld monitor. Basically, if you watch how power use changes when a device turns on, you can infer how much power a specific device uses. They sell a "Hub" kit that lets the data be sent to their website for long term daily summaries, which can then be downloaded to your computer. Without the hub I think the data is stuck on the display with no way to store it long term (keeps 240 days worth of data), unless you buy the older version which has a USB port but no networking support.

It is wireless and ideally is mounted outside your breaker box with the wires run through a punch out, but I did find some reviews verifying it works with the transmitter inside their box (obviously range is reduced).

The basic model Efergy is battery powered and installed simply by clipping the donuts on your mains. Battery life is several months, I think. The lack of voltage monitoring limits its accuracy, especially for motor driven loads (heat pump, furnace blower, refrigerator, etc). Their True Power Meter requires connecting the unit to a breaker, but is more accurate and I think well worth the small extra cost and install work.

They advertise expansion kits on their website for monitoring 2 additional donuts, but have listed them as out of stock for months. Too bad. Otherwise I probably would have bought a True Power Monitor and a couple expansion kits.

Aside from that Efergy looks like a good option for most casual users.

Smappee is another user-friendly, simple monitor, but they do some analytical stuff to try to guess which appliance is running based on your total house load.

Brultech offers a couple options for much more complicated, expansive system. I won't go into the details, but it looks like one of the best values available if you want to monitor numerous circuits. It requires mounting outside the electrical panel with cables run through a punchout. That doesn't work for me, unfortunately, because my panel is in a bedroom. It communicates via serial port or ethernet. The simplest system includes a miniature data server in a modem-like box that you can access using a web browser.

Curb is a new, open source monitor. I'm intrigued and waiting for more reviews. They do not offer current transformers sized for your mains, so you can only monitor branch circuits.

Somebody here, I think begreen, has said they have an eGauge system. This more or less professional level gear. I think the cost of a system that could monitor as many circuits as a TED Pro with a Spyder was twice as high. However, eGauge is more accurate and they optionally provide a calibration certificate, which is a big legal leg up if you need to challenge the accuracy of your power company's meter, want to bill a renter in a mother-in-law apartment, or need track solar production accurately in states that pay a production incentive (different from net metering).


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Short answer: yes TED Pro is one of a couple devices that can do what you're asking. You probably want both the basic kit and a Spyder.
> 
> Long answer:
> 
> ...




Thank you Lucky. There's a lot of good stuff you mentioned there. I've got a little more homework cut out for me. Thanks for your input.


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## Circus (Feb 28, 2017)

I've never heard of a consumer available receiver but I bet your various usage is already being monitored and broadcast by a smart meter. Just needs to be hacked.


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## Where2 (Feb 28, 2017)

Circus said:


> I've never heard of a consumer available receiver but I bet your various usage is already being monitored and broadcast by a smart meter. Just needs to be hacked.



Consumer receivers are out there for some smart meters, but whether or not the power company will give you the login credentials to read the stream is a different story. (hacking may be the only door to the stream in some areas)

I own both the TED 1001, and the TED 5003. For what the OP is trying to determine, either of these devices would likely work. They do have their limitations and definitely do NOT like to play nicely with other power line communication devices (X-10 being a major interference). Before suggesting anyone buy either of the older cheaper TED devices I own, I'd strongly suggest they understand how power line communication works. I had to filter some noisy devices (UPS) to get rid of some interference to get my TED devices to work properly at my modern house in suburbia. At my farm in rural Maine, I simply plugged in the TED 5003 and off we went.


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## Thejacksonfamily7 (Feb 28, 2017)

Where2 said:


> Consumer receivers are out there for some smart meters, but whether or not the power company will give you the login credentials to read the stream is a different story. (hacking may be the only door to the stream in some areas)
> 
> I own both the TED 1001, and the TED 5003. For what the OP is trying to determine, either of these devices would likely work. They do have their limitations and definitely do NOT like to play nicely with other power line communication devices (X-10 being a major interference). Before suggesting anyone buy either of the older cheaper TED devices I own, I'd strongly suggest they understand how power line communication works. I had to filter some noisy devices (UPS) to get rid of some interference to get my TED devices to work properly at my modern house in suburbia. At my farm in rural Maine, I simply plugged in the TED 5003 and off we went.




I have digital meter on the outside of my garage and 2 200 amp panels. I could have gotten away with just 1 but it would have been pretty full. So for future additions I opted for 2 panels. 
Will my digital meter create interference with the Ted pro device or any of the others?


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## velvetfoot (Mar 1, 2017)

Nice writeup on the latest by iamlucky 13.

If you're monitoring whole house usage, you have to install the CT's (current transformers) on the two hot legs coming from the meter.  Not sure how your two panels work, but I imagine there's a common feed.

I have the old TED in the kitchen and look at it when I'm near as a habit.  It provides a reading every minute or so.  I second Where2's comment on transmitting data over the house wiring, eg, wife plugs in charger, suddenly no data transmitted, as her to plug into another outlet, or plug tv upstairs that was interfering into an isolator....stuff like that.

I don't know what's happening with your electric bill though.  Maybe it's estimated, like Lake Girl said.  Should get that checked out.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 1, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> Maybe it's estimated, like Lake Girl said. Should get that checked out.


Digital meter but is it a "smart" meter where data is transmitted?  

I know for our jurisdiction (now ranked #1 in highest rates in North America), they have time of usage differential.  Peak, mid-peak, off peak rates.  I know to watch the clock before I start up that dishwasher or washer/dryer. 

Not sure on the source of this article but raises some interesting points ... congressional testimony article about 5-7 year lifespan found at the bottom.

https://smartgridawareness.org/2015...ware-of-issues-with-digital-meters-for-years/

https://smartgridawareness.org/2015/10/29/smart-meters-have-life-of-5-to-7-years/

You guys made me go down the "rabbit hole" ... another "potential" source of sellable data on the homeowners are from smart meters.   
https://smartgridawareness.org/2017/02/25/smart-meters-profile-consumers/#more-15176


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 1, 2017)

Thejacksonfamily7 said:


> I have digital meter on the outside of my garage and 2 200 amp panels. I could have gotten away with just 1 but it would have been pretty full. So for future additions I opted for 2 panels.
> Will my digital meter create interference with the Ted pro device or any of the others?



It's hard to say, but I'm inclined to think not. As far as I know, smart meters that use Power Line Communications to send data to the utility do so only intermittently (maybe a couple times an hour). If that's correct, at worst I'd expect occasional data gaps. If the utility wanted to do it right, then the meter should have a filter blocking the signal from the customer side, or else they risk their own signal being interfered with by customer devices like X-10.

You can probably minimize the chances of that by wiring the TED to the same breaker that powers whatever outlet you plug the Gateway / ECC into. I think TED actually suggests doing so in the manual, and my own experience with power line networking is that there can be significant signal loss between different branch circuits. So keeping them on the same branch circuit maximizes the signal strength for the TED and reduces the strength of potentially interfering signals.

Depending how your panels are set up, you may need two TED MTU's if you want to monitor both of them, but I want to say one ECC can read multiple MTU's, in addition to multiple Spyder's. If that's relevant, digging around in the manuals for more clarification might be worthwhile.



Circus said:


> I've never heard of a consumer available receiver but I bet your various usage is already being monitored and broadcast by a smart meter. Just needs to be hacked.



That would only tell him whole house usage. It could be difficult to tell what is keeping his bills high based on that alone. Also, if he's concerned the utility's meter is not accurate, it would not answer the question.

Some utility meters may have an optical port that flashes a signal every time a certain amount of electricity is consumed. I didn't look into this much, but I know there are energy monitors designed to work with such meters.


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## Highbeam (Mar 1, 2017)

I supplemented my whole house efergy monitor with a clamp on ampmeter to identify leaks.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 2, 2017)

There was a fine detective thread here the other month where a fellow tracked his excess usage down to his water well system:  a leaking "hydrant", whatever that means-I think it was irrigation related.  You know, I think he was from Wash. state too.

Your case though:  it seems that completely turning off the electric furnace did not affect the utility bill.  I mean, if that is indeed true, and if the electric furnace actually ran, that'd seem impossible.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 2, 2017)

The guy was from Idaho.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/average-daily-electricity-useage.159381/

You case sounds different.  But don't they all, hah!


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## semipro (Mar 2, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Short answer: yes TED Pro is one of a couple devices that can do what you're asking. You probably want both the basic kit and a Spyder.
> 
> Long answer:
> 
> ...



The Sense system may also be worth a look.  https://sense.com/ 
The system monitors both current and voltage at the electrical feed in the house to identify power users based on signal recognition.  For example, they can identify a dishwasher based on how it impacts current/voltage.


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