# Which pellet boiler to purchase?



## SolarGuy401 (May 24, 2015)

Hello All,

I live in MA where there is a rebate of up to $12,000 on pellet boilers until 6/30/15. I am looking to replace my 15+ year old oil boiler which is on it's last legs. I have looked at a few different brands and was wondering if anyone could offer any insight on advantages/disadvantages of the different brands. I have looked at the Okofen (MeSys), Windhager, Froling, Evoworld, Pellergy, and Ecoboiler.

The problem I am encountering so far is that there are very few installers and bulk pellet suppliers in western MA where I live. I have read through some older threads on this forum in which some members have given feedback on some of these including the Okofen and Windhager. Does anyone have any experience with the Ecoboiler or any of the other brands? There is an installer of the Ecoboiler in my area, but I am not sure of the quality and ease of use compared to others such as the Windhager. I really want to get the best product available and not have any regrets. Any help or insight would be very much appreciated.


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## Lake Girl (May 24, 2015)

Hopefully some one chimes in with info ... forum slowing down with the change in weather


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## moey (May 24, 2015)

You probably will still have to replace your oil boiler still ever leave the house for more then a week? A lot of folks claim you can not get insurance without some type of oil/gas/electric heat.


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## heaterman (May 24, 2015)

moey said:


> You probably will still have to replace your oil boiler still ever leave the house for more then a week? A lot of folks claim you can not get insurance without some type of oil/gas/electric heat.


 
We went through that with an insurance company here. Once they understood that the pellet boiler (Windhager) is designed from the ground up as a stand alone primary heating source they had no problem. 

I got a little static from them at first on two points. Refueling and reliability.

When the understood the feed mechanism was capable of going months without attention and the boiler had to be manually tended/cleaned every 800-1000 hours of operation, they knew they didn't have any valid reason to object.


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## velvetfoot (May 24, 2015)

I'm not sure, but maybe Marc, (PassionForFire&Water), the representative for Windhager, can get you an installer's name, especially since he is located in Massachusetts, although in the eastern part.  

I haven't looked lately, but isn't the latest Pellergy a Windhager in a different color?

Maybe perusing the forums could lead to someone who installed one in your neck of the woods.  I installed my own.  You can check it out if you want.

12 grand!  It'd be a shame to pass that up!


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## SolarGuy401 (May 24, 2015)

heaterman said:


> We went through that with an insurance company here. Once they understood that the pellet boiler (Windhager) is designed from the ground up as a stand alone primary heating source they had no problem.
> 
> I got a little static from them at first on two points. Refueling and reliability.
> 
> When the understood the feed mechanism was capable of going months without attention and the boiler had to be manually tended/cleaned every 800-1000 hours of operation, they knew they didn't have any valid reason to object.




That is an interesting point about the insurance company possibly requiring some type of backup system, but as you stated, some of these boilers such as the Windhager and I think, the Okofen (MeSys) are designed as stand alone heating systems.

That being said, I would not be opposed to the idea of a backup electric boiler or if there was some type of storage tank that had an electric heating element to keep the water hot.

The gentleman that I spoke to that sells the Ecoboiler gave me a number of possible schematics, one of which included a buffer tank, a "solar" tank with an electric heating element, and a backup electric boiler. I know that it can be argued that if I add all these additional electric loads, I may be trading part of my heating bill for a higher electric bill, but since I work for a solar PV installation company, part of my ultimate plan is to install a PV system on my house and offset any additional electric usage. Before I can do that, I need to introduce the row of 100' tall pines south of my house to my 372XP.

Here is a bit more info on how the rebate in Massachusetts is structured. The normal rebate pays up to $10,000 and then there is an additional $2,000 available if you install thermal storage (a buffer tank) as I understand it.


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## SolarGuy401 (May 24, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> I'm not sure, but maybe Marc, (PassionForFire&Water), the representative for Windhager, can get you an installer's name, especially since he is located in Massachusetts, although in the eastern part.
> 
> I haven't looked lately, but isn't the latest Pellergy a Windhager in a different color?
> 
> ...



That is interesting what you said about the Pellergy being a Windhager. I was not aware of that. I got an email from Marc in response to my inquiry on his website, in which he explained that most of his installers are in the eastern part of MA and he said he was going to contact Pellergy to see if they had anyone in my area. From what I have read so far, everyone who has gotten a Windhager seems to have nothing but good things to say about it.

I can't pass up the $12,000. It is too compelling. That is why I am trying to gather information and make an informed decision before the end of June when the rebate ends. My oil boiler needed to be replaced anyway (the last few winters it has been on borrowed time) and this is the incentive I needed to pull the trigger, and I am thrilled that I can finally get away from oil and the associated carbon footprint and price instability, and at the same time support a local source of fuel, i.e. pellets.


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## SolarGuy401 (May 25, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> Hopefully some one chimes in with info ... forum slowing down with the change in weather



Thank you for getting this started Lake Girl. I am looking forward to a good discussion here since I have no experience with or previous knowledge of these systems and this forum seems like a great place to get educated on them.


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## bdud (May 25, 2015)

heaterman said:


> We went through that with an insurance company here. Once they understood that the pellet boiler (Windhager) is designed from the ground up as a stand alone primary heating source they had no problem.
> 
> I got a little static from them at first on two points. Refueling and reliability.
> 
> When the understood the feed mechanism was capable of going months without attention and the boiler had to be manually tended/cleaned every 800-1000 hours of operation, they knew they didn't have any valid reason to object.


No problem from our insurance company, not sure why they would have. 
I think Royal Fireside in Upton has installed a couple of Windhagers, not sure how far out in Western MA you are, maybe they are willing to travel.
No regrets on us getting a Windhager.


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## Trout (May 25, 2015)

SolarGuy401 said:


> That is interesting what you said about the Pellergy being a Windhager. I was not aware of that. I got an email from Marc in response to my inquiry on his website, in which he explained that most of his installers are in the eastern part of MA and he said he was going to contact Pellergy to see if they had anyone in my area. From what I have read so far, everyone who has gotten a Windhager seems to have nothing but good things to say about it.
> 
> I can't pass up the $12,000. It is too compelling. That is why I am trying to gather information and make an informed decision before the end of June when the rebate ends. My oil boiler needed to be replaced anyway (the last few winters it has been on borrowed time) and this is the incentive I needed to pull the trigger, and I am thrilled that I can finally get away from oil and the associated carbon footprint and price instability, and at the same time support a local source of fuel, i.e. pellets.



Yes, the Pellergy Alpha is a Windhager.  I just finished my first heating season with the Alpha and have been very pleased with it.  It is my only central heating boiler and I feel very comfortable with it.  Both Marc and Andy, the Pellergy dealer, are very knowledgable, responsive and helpful.  I'm sure you would be happy with either unit.
  Trout


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## maple1 (May 25, 2015)

SolarGuy401 said:


> That is interesting what you said about the Pellergy being a Windhager. I was not aware of that. I got an email from Marc in response to my inquiry on his website, in which he explained that most of his installers are in the eastern part of MA and he said he was going to contact Pellergy to see if they had anyone in my area. From what I have read so far, everyone who has gotten a Windhager seems to have nothing but good things to say about it.
> 
> I can't pass up the $12,000. It is too compelling. That is why I am trying to gather information and make an informed decision before the end of June when the rebate ends. My oil boiler needed to be replaced anyway (the last few winters it has been on borrowed time) and this is the incentive I needed to pull the trigger, and I am thrilled that I can finally get away from oil and the associated carbon footprint and price instability, and at the same time support a local source of fuel, i.e. pellets.


 
Wasn't sure which one of your posts I should respond to.

I didn't go with pellets, but I did get rid of all our oil stuff 3 years ago. Should have done it looong ago. On top of the reasons you listed - add in getting rid of any oil spill related liability risk.

I put in an electric boiler for backup. We rarely use backup here since we're around almost all winter. Usually only 2 days over the holidays - this year it didn't get used at all since I was sick then & decided I better stay put. If we would be using it frequently, I would likely have chosen differently (electric boilers are expensive to run for long) - not sure it would have been something oil, or might have tried a mini-split. But with a pellet boiler, you should be able to totally avoid using your backup - unless maybe you were gone for weeks at a time.

How do you heat your DHW? If that's oil too - more reason to make a change there also.


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## velvetfoot (May 25, 2015)

I think I'd try to keep the oil boiler, if possible. Not sure what "last legs" mean, but might it be good enough for backup?  With natural gas expansion, there seem to be a lot of used oil boilers around.  Having an oil boiler, instead of just pellet, might make selling the house easier in the future.   You have to think about venting both, however-could go through the wall with a power vent for the oil boiler if another flue isn't available.  My pellet boiler is an appliance, like heaterman said: not finicky and just works.


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## bdud (May 25, 2015)

I see no point keeping an old oil boiler as a backup. Something else to maintain, leak and go wrong, dump the oil and you will be so happy with your decision. As for resale, if I was viewing / considering a house and it had some unusual heating system or appliance, I would do some homework about it. I would be more scared of some botched 'home improvements' than an approved and proven pellet boiler. The modern pellet boilers also look quite good and make a lot less noise than an oil boiler.


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## velvetfoot (May 25, 2015)

bdud said:


> The modern pellet boilers also look quite good and make a lot less noise than an oil boiler.


That's true.


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## heaterman (May 25, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> That's true.



For sure! About as much noise as my refrigerator.


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## SolarGuy401 (May 25, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Wasn't sure which one of your posts I should respond to.
> 
> I didn't go with pellets, but I did get rid of all our oil stuff 3 years ago. Should have done it looong ago. On top of the reasons you listed - add in getting rid of any oil spill related liability risk.
> 
> ...



Yes. The DHW is handled by the oil boiler as well. It is a tankless coil system. Very inefficient. I had thought about installing an indirect tank as part of this pellet boiler project, but I will ask the installer if they think that is necessary with the pellet boiler. Also, I was thinking about installing an electric boiler as a backup to the pellet boiler like you mentioned. If I take the trees down and install solar panels on my roof, as I plan to do, I can make all my electricity from my solar panels and not have to worry about using the electric backup if I were to need it.


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## SolarGuy401 (May 25, 2015)

bdud said:


> No problem from our insurance company, not sure why they would have.
> I think Royal Fireside in Upton has installed a couple of Windhagers, not sure how far out in Western MA you are, maybe they are willing to travel.
> No regrets on us getting a Windhager.



Upton is probably 2 hrs or more from me. I am in Berkshire County in the Southwest corner of MA. I did however, hear back from Marc. It looks like he is going to be out in this area soon and might be able to stop by to check out my situation. 
Thanks for the feedback on the Windhager.


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## maple1 (May 26, 2015)

SolarGuy401 said:


> Yes. The DHW is handled by the oil boiler as well. It is a tankless coil system. Very inefficient. I had thought about installing an indirect tank as part of this pellet boiler project, but I will ask the installer if they think that is necessary with the pellet boiler. Also, I was thinking about installing an electric boiler as a backup to the pellet boiler like you mentioned. If I take the trees down and install solar panels on my roof, as I plan to do, I can make all my electricity from my solar panels and not have to worry about using the electric backup if I were to need it.


 

Tankless coil - the worst.

That's what we had. Went from about 3/4 imperial gallon per day of oil for summer DHW, to around $25/mo of 0.18/kwh electricity. I've also heard worse oil numbers from others.

Better throughly run some numbers on kwh/$ you would get from a solar setup too, and how much kwh you'd use, before you cut trees down. The numbers don't work out for me - but situations are different.


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## moey (May 26, 2015)

You may also want to look into geothermal. There is a Mass rebate up to $12,500 here http://www.masscec.com/solicitations/residential-ground-source-heat-pumps Id prefer that 10 times over to a pellet boiler. Also a federal tax credit of 30%.


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## bdud (May 26, 2015)

I use this tank with a zone from the Windhager. http://www.caleffi.com/usa/en-us/catalogue/solarcontm-storage-tanks-nas20025
The other coil is hooked up to a Nyle Geyser hot water heat pump. I use this to heat the water in the summer. It runs on 120v so no special wiring and I use a small generator when there are power cuts, can also be moved over to a new tank if the old tank fails. The heat pump does a great job at cooling and dehumidifying the basement. The tank also has a 220v coil but I have never used it.


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## bdud (May 26, 2015)

moey said:


> You may also want to look into geothermal. There is a Mass rebate up to $12,500 here http://www.masscec.com/solicitations/residential-ground-source-heat-pumps Id prefer that 10 times over to a pellet boiler. Also a federal tax credit of 30%.


Good idea, Geothermal might be a smart choice if you going solar. We have an air-source heat pump which we used quite a bit when we still had the oil boiler. When ever we used the heat pump though, my wife got bad headaches from the "cool" heat from the ducts, so we stopped using it.


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## George the Beagle (May 28, 2015)

We completely removed our oil system when we went to the MeSys boiler.  Backup?  We have a standby generator.


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## AK13 (May 29, 2015)

You have Sandri in Greenfield, MA. They deliver bulk pellets and they install Okofen boilers. I know you can't go wrong with a Froling P4 or an Okofen. Those boilers are used on many commercial projects as well. The others mentioned could very well be just as good but I don't have any experience with them.


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## SaraYT (Aug 7, 2015)

Reviving this thread -- can those of you who are using the pellet boiler as their primary heating tell me which insurance company you use? We are meeting a bit of resistance with the underwriter at our current insurance company. We really don't want to have to keep the oil boiler in place. I'd rather consider changing insurance companies.


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## bdud (Aug 7, 2015)

We are with Liberty Mutual.


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