# Value on timberline wood stove?



## Gimpzor

Hey guys and gals.  I am remodeling my basmbase and I am going to be selling a timberline wood stove that the previous owner put in.   I have scoured the internet trying to find a reasonable price to ask, but I want to make sure before I sell it that I'm not getting screwed by asking to little.   I will attach photos for you all to look at.    I posted it on Craigslist for $650 and got offered $550.  Just want to know if that is a good price, or if I'm getting lowballed.  Thanks in advance.


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## Gimpzor

Sorry for the misspellings.  I'm on mobile, and it won't let me edit the post for some reason.


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## Gimpzor

I just got an inquiry from another person.  They said that it is a first generation.  Does that make it worth more as well?   Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I sell it for the correct price


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## bholler

Take the 550 that is easily twice what it's worth


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## Dataman

Yea my call too. Worth about 2-3 hundred at best.   I sold my BK King with 4 year old catalyst for only $400.  If they are priced too high they buy new.


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## Gimpzor

Can you all give me any info on it?  Is it a first generation? Etc.


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## Gimpzor

Also, I see smaller ones in crappy condition listed for $650 all over eBay and other places. The one I have was rarely used and in basically brand new condition.   Also thought it might be worth more because of the one man mentioning that it's a first edition


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## begreen

Take the money and run before the season starts to wane.


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## moresnow

begreen said:


> Take the money and run before the season starts to wane.



Sprint


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## bholler

Gimpzor said:


> Can you all give me any info on it?  Is it a first generation? Etc.


Its an old timberline doest matter much more than that.  They just dont have much value.  I see lots of stuff listed on ebay with high prices.  That doesnt mean they sell at that often.


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## Gimpzor

Ah ok.  The way people talk around where I live, Timberline is some majestic unicorn of wood burning stoves.  Like they are the best thing ever lol.  I wouldn't know, because I don't burn wood.  Would love to, but my sinuses won't allow it.


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## coaly

A Fisher licensee from Boise Idaho named Calvin Cotton (and wife Joice) copied the Fisher stove making his own adaptation. His license to build Fishers was revoked and and a second fabricator who was a Pig Farmer from South Illinois (Duncan) went with Cal to form Timberline. Cal was also related to Marion and Mary Moore, licensees from PA. who were loyal to Bob and Carol Fisher.
Timberline didn't make it long enough to have a "second generation". Perhaps people are referring to the smaller single door stoves that were copies as well calling them another generation??


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## coaly

Here is a more detailed explanation of the company from the Fisher Forum where someone asked years ago;

The death of Timberline was not due to EPA regulations in 1988 like many other stove companies.

_*So I'll try not to offend any surviving family members, heirs or stove owners.*_ I'll back up claims as usual with links.

The Timberline Timeline ;

Timberline Wood Stoves Inc. was formed in 1977 by Calvin Cotton and good friend and partner Lonnie Eroll Preslar as noted in Lonnies obituary 10-11-2003.
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/obits_3698829/preslar.html

Notice in this obituary, not only is the company mentioned, but also a brother Ivan Preslar.
This was Ivan T. Preslar II.

Ivan partnered with Robert M Weichart President of Adirondack Wood Stove Works Inc.and became Timberline Energy Corp. in NY.

Ivan was the current acting President of the surviving eastern company in Syracuse NY. during the Bankruptcy Chapter 11 filing April 13, 1981.
http://ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19850412_0000011.NNY.htm/qx

Ivan became a silent partner of Timberline East Inc. formed from this bankruptcy.

This is where things get interesting with Banruptcy Fraud cases between the owners and later bankruptcy courts. Weichart opened a checking account on behalf of Timberline East with checks issued to Timberline Energy. Sept. 10, 1981, Chapter 11 (reorganization) was converted to Chapter 7 of bankruptcy code. Federal marshals padlocked the premisies of Timberline Energy that same day.

4 years later, criminal charges along with 4 counts of bankruptcy fraud, (the "FEW" stoves sold at bankruptcy sale were actually 333 plus parts) Weichart was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment. (5 suspended by district court)
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-nynd-6_05-cv-00571/pdf/USCOURTS-nynd-6_05-cv-00571-0.pdf

https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/783/783.F2d.23.85-1333.85-1332.85-1331.594.595.html

The address on this New York state tax commision letter shows the original business address never changed from the start of the business;
http://www.nysdta.org/STC/Sales/1982_T_Z0005.pdf


The entire thread LINK; https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/timberline-wood-stove.101525/#post-1307787


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## pjohnson

I bought a timberline back in early 80s 550 is about what they cost brand new. Take the money and run before the buyer finds out his insurance wont let him install an old non UL stove. don't think you got some rare jewel


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## peakbagger

Folks tend to forget, just because someone is asking a certain price on Ebay doesnt mean they are selling for that price. There is option to search sold listings and completed listings. Sold listings are generally the actual transaction cost while completed listings mean it wasnt sold. Generally if you look at the pricing on completed listings you will see that the asking price is high.

I do agree a plate steel stove seems to be in $300 to $500 if its a cold heating season when oil or propane is high. The value drops lower at the end of the heating season. Most folks selling just want to get a "boat anchor" gone and will negotiate. Heck if its in difficult place to move it from the price may go down to free for the taking.


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## Gimpzor

peakbagger said:


> Folks tend to forget, just because someone is asking a certain price on Ebay doesnt mean they are selling for that price. There is option to search sold listings and completed listings. Sold listings are generally the actual transaction cost while completed listings mean it wasnt sold. Generally if you look at the pricing on completed listings you will see that the asking price is high.
> 
> I do agree a plate steel stove seems to be in $300 to $500 if its a cold heating season when oil or propane is high. The value drops lower at the end of the heating season. Most folks selling just want to get a "boat anchor" gone and will negotiate. Heck if its in difficult place to move it from the price may go down to free for the taking.



I'm aware of what things are listed for vs what they sell for.  Been buying and selling things for a long time.  However when they are all listed for that, and you see sold listings reflecting that price, it kind of gives you an idea.   Also this stove doesn't have any steel that I'm aware of. From what I can see, it's all cast iron


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## bholler

Gimpzor said:


> I'm aware of what things are listed for vs what they sell for.  Been buying and selling things for a long time.  However when they are Lal listed for that, and you see sold listings reflecting that price, it kind of gives you and idea.   Also this stove doesn't have and steel that I'm aware of. From what I can see, it's all cast iron


The doors are the only cast part the rest is a welded steel box.


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## peakbagger

That stove in the picture sure looks to be a welded steel plate stove with a set of cast iron doors. Same as all the Fishers I have seen and the one that I owned. If you look at the top its obviously a steel plate that has been bent, I dont think it could be duplicated with a casting. 

Nothing wrong with a steel plate stove but if you tell someone its cast iron stove they are going to be disappointed.


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## Gimpzor

peakbagger said:


> That stove in the picture sure looks to be a welded steel plate stove with a set of cast iron doors. Same as all the Fishers I have seen and the one that I owned. If you look at the top its obviously a steel plate that has been bent, I dont think it could be duplicated with a casting.
> 
> Nothing wrong with a steel plate stove but if you tell someone its cast iron stove they are going to be disappointed.



Thanks, shows you my ignorance with this stuff. Also thought it was cast, because a couple people told me timberlines were cast.  All I know, is it weighs like 650 pounds give or take


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## bholler

Gimpzor said:


> Thanks, shows you my ignorance with this stuff. Also thought it was cast, because a couple people told me timberlines were cast.  All I know, is it weighs like 650 pounds give or take


Stoves that size are usually around 400 to 450. Taking the doors and fire brick off drops close to 100


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## coaly

Cast iron stoves are built with separate pieces that are bolted together. They use gasket material between pieces and require routine maintenance. Bob Fisher was credited with inventing the first welded steel plate stove. He couldn't make them fast enough, so he taught others to make them and sold licenses for protected areas. His father suggested having the doors poured from cast iron to speed the manufacture of making doors. As changes were made, revised drawings were sent to his fabricators and only he had the doors cast, and sent then to his fabricators. So by keeping track of door orders, he knew how much was due him in royalties. To prevent paying royalties,some like Cal Cotton had their own doors cast and suffered patent infringement right law suits. The reason they eventually got away with copying his stove was a judge ruled that no one could patent the way something works naturally. This case being the step top allowing the exhaust vent to be higher than the door opening to prevent smoke when opening doors. All-Nighter won that case and changed stove history. Fisher then decided to simply make the best stove with more improvements over the years to compete. They sold more stoves than all the others put together. Estimated at 1.5 million by 1988.
Cast and steel plate is the same molten material, the molecules solidify in a different pattern with much different characteristics. Heat dissipates from cast faster, but it is much more brittle. Cast is not as fixable as steel plate since when welding, it cools so rapidly it normally cracks without the proper pre-heating and slow cooling.


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## bholler

coaly said:


> Cast iron stoves are built with separate pieces that are bolted together. They use gasket material between pieces and require routine maintenance. Bob Fisher was credited with inventing the first welded steel plate stove. He couldn't make them fast enough, so he taught others to make them and sold licenses for protected areas. His father suggested having the doors poured from cast iron to speed the manufacture of making doors. As changes were made, revised drawings were sent to his fabricators and only he had the doors cast, and sent then to his fabricators. So by keeping track of door orders, he knew how much was due him in royalties. To prevent paying royalties,some like Cal Cotton had their own doors cast and suffered patent infringement right law suits. The reason they eventually got away with copying his stove was a judge ruled that no one could patent the way something works naturally. This case being the step top allowing the exhaust vent to be higher than the door opening to prevent smoke when opening doors. All-Nighter won that case and changed stove history. Fisher then decided to simply make the best stove with more improvements over the years to compete. They sold more stoves than all the others put together. Estimated at 1.5 million by 1988.
> Cast and steel plate is the same molten material, the molecules solidify in a different pattern with much different characteristics. Heat dissipates from cast faster, but it is much more brittle. Cast is not as fixable as steel plate since when welding, it cools so rapidly it normally cracks without the proper pre-heating and slow cooling.


He did not invent welded plate steel stoves.


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## Todd67

Gimpzor said:


> Hey guys and gals.  I am remodeling my basmbase and I am going to be selling a timberline wood stove that the previous owner put in.   I have scoured the internet trying to find a reasonable price to ask, but I want to make sure before I sell it that I'm not getting screwed by asking to little.   I will attach photos for you all to look at.    I posted it on Craigslist for $650 and got offered $550.  Just want to know if that is a good price, or if I'm getting lowballed.  Thanks in advance.
> View attachment 236165
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Does this stove have a one-piece back and bottom plate? To be more clear, does this stove's back plate make up the bottom of the stove, bent 90 degrees, and extend out to the front of the ash fender? Or, are the back plate and bottom plates separate pieces, welded to form a squared off corner at the bottom rear of the stove?


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## Slow burn

Coals I’m curious if you have any info on Warner woodstoves? I believe they were made in NH, they sure seem to have similarities to Fisher.


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## coaly

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/warner-stove/


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## Metalmantma

Gimpzor did you sell your double door timberline?


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