# Woodgasification Boilers



## felderab (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi folks I am new to this but have seen a lot of hype on the Wood gasification boilers.  Is there any feedback as to how the different brands work?

There are three or four America Made versions out there from what I can tell.

What is everyone's particular wood usage (understood this varies with insulation, environment, storage capacities, SF to heat, and manufacturer etc... )

I am in the process of researching to purchase and install with partial infloor radient heat and forced air combination (with a heat coil).


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## Nofossil (Jan 6, 2008)

felderab said:
			
		

> Hi folks I am new to this but have seen a lot of hype on the Wood gasification boilers.  Is there any feedback as to how the different brands work?
> 
> There are three or four America Made versions out there from what I can tell.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the forum and to the boiler room. If you rummage around, you'll find a few threads that address your questions. In general, gasification boilers consume a good deal less wood and generate virtually no smoke, fumes, or creosote. On the other hand, they're more expensive and perhaps a bit more finicky to learn.

I'm not aware of any significant performance difference between brands of indoor gasification boilers. They all work pretty much the same way.

Wood usage varies a lot depending on many factors above and beyond the boiler itself. I think it's fair to say that a gasification boiler uses something like 40% less wood than an equivalent non-gasification unit. My brother saw exactly that reduction. I personally burn about 4.5 cords between mid October and mid April heating 3500 square feet, domestic hot water, and a hot tub in Vermont.

Storage helps, but may not give you a huge boost in efficiency.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 7, 2008)

Most of the hype turned out to be true. I was surprised, but pleased.


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## greeninsulation (Jan 9, 2008)

Wood Gasification Furnaces are the Green Furnaces, the hybrids of wood burning.  They are super efficient mean much less wood consumption and less emissions. our E 3400/E3300 are Phase 1Epa approved and we are looking forward to final approval at the next EPA meeting in Jan 08.  these outdoor units hook into any existing heating system and are excellent to use with new radiant construction.  Burning wood is a renewable resourse and great physical for all of us! We ship our units factory direct.  If you want to learn more see www.woodgasificationfurnace.com


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room. I went to your website and watched the video, and it looks like a very nice boiler. Reminds me of the Blue Forge with insulation and a shell. I like the "doghouse" feature.

I gather this is a non-pressurized boiler. Do you recommend any water treatment?

Thanks for checking in and letting us know about this boiler. It looks to me like a perfect replacement for any OWB. I'm sure our other members will have some questions and comments.


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## greeninsulation (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes as with all outdoor wood furnaces, a water treatment is recommended to be added.     The  unit is non-pressurized.  We ship factory direct.   Of course the benefit of having all wood, mold,fungus, dirt allergies etc associated with wood, outside along with fire danger.   these units  are changing how people think about outdoor furnaces!    www.woodgasificationfurnaces.com 877 904 8424


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## greeninsulation (Jan 10, 2008)

Well this forum has generated a lot of interest, via emails and phone calls. Thanks for letting me know so many people are concerned about cleaning burning, energy efficient outdoor wood furnaces! Our units are being shipped out daily as people realize the cost of fossil fuels are only continuing to climb and unfortuanately as those do, so do the prices of our units( price of steel, delivery charges, how much steel goes to China , etc etc etc) I always advise people if it is something you are thinking about DO NOT WAIT Prices never go down on these! There is no off season as people use them year round to heat pools, green houses, businesses, domestic hot water etc. It takes very little to keep domestic hot water warm while using these as they become basically a solar hot water heater in the summer sitting outside for you. 

Many people are installing now, next to their house and doing the inside hook up and then come spring will drain and move it to a more permanent location. The money they save by not paying oil/propane/gas will be a huge savings and make payments towards the green furnace! They are easy to hook into existing systems or with new construction. Call me today and we will discuss your needs and get yours shipped today. Callie 877 904 8424 
www.woodgasificationfurnace.com


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 10, 2008)

I think if you read through the forum, Callie, you'll notice that most of us already know all that. You're preaching to the choir with your sales pitch.

I'd like to know what distinguishes your boiler from the Blue Forge, Greenwood, Garn, Adobe and other big, outdoor-style gasifiers. How does it stack up against the Greenfire, for example, which, according to another post here, is about half the price?

And while I agree with your basic point about prices increasing, I suspect that if enough OWB manufacturers start offering gasification boilers, prices will come down.


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## greeninsulation (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry I am new to this and only had read this page.  We only inform about our product .  I too hope prices will come down just as I hope the gas prices will go back under $2.00 a gallon but not holding my breath for that.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Jan 10, 2008)

Actually looks like the Sequyah is steel, not ceramic? 210kBTU to heat 4,000[]?? My GW is the smallest they make (100) and I'm heating 4k[] and my water capacity is like 8 gal vs 160??

Looks like everyone is going to make gasifying hydronics now . . .I wonder how many will still be in business in a few years? Which was why I only considered Tarm, Garn, Alternate Heating Systems (Eshland) and New Horizon. But I took a HUGE leap of faith on the GreenWood. Jury's still out. . .


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## webbie (Jan 10, 2008)

greeninsulation said:
			
		

> Well this forum has generated a lot of interest, via emails and phone calls. Thanks for letting me know so many people are concerned about cleaning burning, energy efficient outdoor wood furnaces! Our units are being shipped out daily



Hey, Green.....although Eric runs this place, keep in mind that we have a "no blatant commercialism" policy, which means that folks who are here are only here to help others. We pride ourselves on being a relatively unbiased source of information, and try to promote the industry as a WHOLE as opposed to one particular business or another. The forums would become runed very quickly if each manufacturer and dealer showed up here and tried to steer customers their way.

We do have LOTS of advertising and sponsorship packages available which can promote your products, and if you have interest send an email or PM to Eric or myself.

So, that said, welcome to the Forums and Boiler room and I hope you can add to this great community!


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## rsnider (Jan 11, 2008)

keep posting green your boilers are new on the market but ive seen them before as the htm's. how many web sites do you have wdheat.com, rusticresource.com, and now this new one you just mentioned? anyway love to have another possible pro around that knows about how to set up a solid working boiler.


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## Nofossil (Jan 11, 2008)

Once again attempting to get back on-topic, I have a question. You talk about a mix of radiant and hot air via heat exchanger.

Are you committed to indoor or outdoor installation? Are you considering heat storage? Is it part of your plan to also provide domestic hot water as part of the installation?

When I did my system, I went with a really small boiler, and as time goes by I think I did the right thing. However, I think it only makes sense if it's set up where it's convenient to feed it. As far as I can see, most outdoor boilers are designed to take huge loads and they spend a lot of time idling. You can run a gasifier that way, but it will be better off if you run it flat out and then let it go out when you don't need heat any more. I use storage to keep my house temps even between fires. Cold weather I burn about seven hours every day. warmer weather I skip days. I skipped the last two, for instance.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm happy to talk about the boiler's features, because I'd like to learn more about it. Nofossil's post is a good place to start.

I'm curious about the 40 feet of tubing mentioned in the video. I assume that's a firetube heat exchanger. Can you explain how that works, Callie?


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## brad068 (Jan 11, 2008)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> I'm happy to talk about the boiler's features, because I'd like to learn more about it. Nofossil's post is a good place to start.
> 
> I'm curious about the 40 feet of tubing mentioned in the video. I assume that's a firetube heat exchanger. Can you explain how that works, Callie?



  Alright guys,  here's the skinny on this owb gasifier.  If you go to wdheat site and look at the pics of  the boiler,  the whole bottom "tray" is a maze of firebrick.  There is the main center secondary chamber like a Woodgun, then the flue gas passage splits.  There is no water or steel in the bottom 1/3 (where the bolts are, looking at the pics) of this boiler.  There is something like a 40' exhaust path most of which is in the firebrick.  The gases work there way to the outer edges and then come up the sides through the water jacket and then come together in the back and out the top.  This boiler combines the refractory mass of the greenwood,  the water storage of an owb, and the downdraft like the eko's.  I have seen this boiler in operation and talked to Rick about it.  I'm glad to see that he is taking the lead in cleaning up the shanty type owbs.


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## greeninsulation (Jan 19, 2008)

We are waiting for the EPA to meet and then hopefully, the E 3400/E3300 will have the ORANGE Tag   and meet the emisssion regulations.  We want to be the Green Furnaces asmany people in this country are tired of being held hostage to foreign fuel costs. Green Insulation Products is trying to provide ways to save money and the environment.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 19, 2008)

greeninsulation said:
			
		

> We are waiting for the EPA to meet and then hopefully, the E 3400/E3300 will have the ORANGE Tag   and meet the emisssion regulations.  We want to be the Green Furnaces asmany people in this country are tired of being held hostage to foreign fuel costs. Green Insulation Products is trying to provide ways to save money and the environment.



I assume you’re also in business to make a profit.

Can you explain what the orange tag means, and perhaps elaborate on the EPA testing process in general (without the blatant sales pitch)?


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## greeninsulation (Jan 19, 2008)

When buying an outdoor wood-fired hydronic heater, look for the orange tag. The orange tag means the model is cleaner and pollutes less than other models
This orange tag identifies outdoor wood-fired hydronic heaters that meet EPA’s Phase I emissions levels for the voluntary program. Models that carry this tag have been tested by an EPA-accredited laboratory and are cleaner than other models.   Many states have  requirements on OWHH and people need to be aware of them as I have people contacting me after they have purchased units and found out they have to shut them down.  The E3400/E3300 are the hybrids of the woodgasificationfurnaces, the green furnaces and soon will be epa approved.  While they might be more expensive initially to purchase, they use 1/2 as much LESS WOOD to get the BTU's.  So instead of using 8 cords of wood, it would use 4-5 cords to heat the same space! Not only does it provide heat, but obviously can provide hot water for car washes, dairy farms, anything you need lots of hot water for, heat for greenhouses, business,up to 10,000 sq ft, radiant heating, multiple homes, isnow melting ,  etc etc etc.   For more info on the ORANGE TAG and clean buring OWHH  see http://www.epa.gov/woodheaters/what_epa_doing.htm.  Purchase for the future now see it on video on my site.


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## NP ALASKA (Feb 4, 2008)

greeninsulation said:
			
		

> Wood Gasification Furnaces are the Green Furnaces, the hybrids of wood burning.  They are super efficient mean much less wood consumption and less emissions. our E 3400/E3300 are Phase 1Epa approved and we are looking forward to final approval at the next EPA meeting in Jan 08.  these outdoor units hook into any existing heating system and are excellent to use with new radiant construction.  Burning wood is a renewable resourse and great physical for all of us! We ship our units factory direct.  If you want to learn more see www.woodgasificationfurnace.com




I find this one to be very interesting. I currently have an CB6048 OWB. I am heating 8000sq ft in Alaska. Tell me is this really worth looking at? I like efficient and less wood consumption. I burn a bit of wood heating all the space I am.


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## greeninsulation (Feb 4, 2008)

It is worth looking at !   Only you can answer if it is worth changing out, of course.   THe efficiency and emission testings are coming in great with this unit.  Gasification is the most efficient way to burn wood, see the video at
www.woodgasificationfurnace.com to see it running!  It is the Green Furnace of the Future NOW !


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 4, 2008)

salespeople  . . . . excuse me while I puke on your shoes . . .


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## webbie (Feb 4, 2008)

greeninsulation said:
			
		

> Well this forum has generated a lot of interest, via emails and phone calls.



Please keep in mind that we discourage (and in fact do not allow) blatant commercialism on these forums. The entire idea of the forums is the sharing of information outside of the profit motive - people helping people. 

Please refrain in future posting from promoting your own brand. If you would like to promote or advertise on Hearth.com, feel free to contact Eric or myself......

I know that the "line" is often hard to see, but here are some guidelines:

1. The posting of their own URL's by manufacturers is discouraged. Your company name is fine in your signature, in fact we welcome that because it is full disclosure.
2. Any posting by manufacturers or reps which is designed to drum up business, and which might result in other makers doing the same. This is pretty obvious, because anything which is good for one is good for the other.....and having dozens of manufacturers posting stuff here promoting their units will get old fast!

I should mention that these guidelines benefit the manufacturers as well as our users. Our users know how to use google, and then know how to find out which units are out there. Any manufacturer who promotes their units here as the "best" will someday see the other side of the equation when some disgruntled users get online and roast them face to face. 

So let's keep things informational.

By the way, we do have free services including free Press Release accounts for manufacturers - and that is a place where makers can, of course, promote their brands and URL's, etc.


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## Mainewood (Feb 6, 2008)

nofossil said:
			
		

> felderab said:
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nofossil, For 3 heating seasons,  I have been running a non-gasification wood boiler in my basement, that is plumbed into my oil boiler.  My house is 3200sf, I am heating domestic hw and a hot tub.  My wood consumption for each heating season has averaged 5 cords.  My oil usage has averaged 300 gals.


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## Nofossil (Feb 6, 2008)

Mainewood said:
			
		

> nofossil, For 3 heating seasons,  I have been running a non-gasification wood boiler in my basement, that is plumbed into my oil boiler.  My house is 3200sf, I am heating domestic hw and a hot tub.  My wood consumption for each heating season has averaged 5 cords.  My oil usage has averaged 300 gals.



For a VERY rough rule of thumb, assume that in a gasifier, a cord of wood replaces 100 gallons of fuel oil. (My experience is a bit better, but best to be conservative)

I'm heating about the same amount of space including DHW and hot tub with about 4.5 cords/year, replacing 600 gallons of oil. If I did a quick guess, I'd assume that 3 cords in a gasifier would replace the 5 cords that you're burning now, and another 3 cords would replace the rest of the oil. Storage would help make it work better, especially in the shoulder seasons.

I use solar or hot water in the summer.

I'd look at installing the boiler in parallel rather than in series with the oil.


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## Mainewood (Feb 6, 2008)

nofossil said:
			
		

> Mainewood said:
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nofossil, thanks for your reply.  I would like to know more about installing the boiler in parallel vs. in series.
thanks


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## Nofossil (Feb 6, 2008)

Mainewood said:
			
		

> nofossil, thanks for your reply.  I would like to know more about installing the boiler in parallel vs. in series.
> thanks



There's a few threads that address this. In a series installation you usually have on pump that pushes water through both boilers. Disadvantage is slower response and more heat loss. In a parallel configuration, each heat source has its own pump with check valve and they're connected to a common supply and return. See the plumbing diagram on my site for an example - link in my signature below. You only care about the left side of the diagram - the right side has complexities unrelated to your question.


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## greeninsulation (Feb 15, 2008)

Just wanted to  let everyone know that we finally have the EPA approval, the Orange tag for the OWHH for the Sequoyah E3400 Outdoor wood . It is ready for shipment and is one of a kind gasification furnace. 


www.woodgasificationfurnace.com


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