# Where did that airplane go?



## razerface (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, what is your theory? I think it was landed in Pakistan to be used later in terrorist act.


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## Beer Belly (Mar 19, 2014)




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## drewmo (Mar 19, 2014)

No idea, but the longer it stays missing the more likely it is hidden someplace. Given it's been 12 days disappeared, had it crashed in the ocean, a chunk of that plane would have been found by now.


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## Warm_in_NH (Mar 19, 2014)

Strange. Similar to the air france flight that took years to find, but debris from that one was found 5 days later.

Boggles me why Malaysian authorities are so slow with info, crooked or just slow? Strange.

My thoughts on day 2 was a stolen plane, but I wear a tin foil hat at night too, so I don't give myself much credit. Plus that'd be really hard to accomplish,  but not impossible,  then what are you gonna do with it? We can snipe missiles out of the sky, a non responsive jet liner wouldn't make it too far.

I think it's at the bottom of the ocean WAY off course. Attempted theft but something went wrong and it went down.

For the families sake I hope they come up with some sort of an answer, can't imagine what kind of limbo their living in.

Anyone check ebay or craigs list? Lots of stolen items end up there.


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## ironpony (Mar 19, 2014)

my theory, first the pilots took the plane to 45000 ft, verified, no one would really notice this. Pilots put on oxygen masks, pilot then depressurizes cabin, yes they can do that manually.  At 45000 ft passengers would be unconscious in seconds, level flight 4 minutes, all passengers deceased. This is why there are no cell phone calls, texts or e-mails. The pilot then descends to 5000 ft and flies to one of the several hundred runways within  the planes flight range, verified. The plane will be fully fueled and WMD will be added, then it will be flown on a suicide mission to some area as a political statement.

I will answer some questions before asked, and there are several members on here with enough experience to back them up, contrary to what is being reported by "experts" on TV.

777's are not certified to fly above 43,500 ft. it would fall apart.  Planes fly within a flight envelope, Boeing is VERY conservative on this, if they say 43,500 is safe it will probably fly at 50,000 without incidence. you can not fly a 777 at 5000 ft, A pilot with 18,000 flight hours is capable of flying that airplane at 500 ft all day long.

The U.S. knows where the plane is, it can not say that because that would let the world know our spying capabilities along with tipping of the hijackers. When I was still involved with aircraft 20 yrs ago we could see a dime on the ground from 40,000 ft and tell if it was heads or tails.

JAGS what are your thoughts?? A couple of E2C's, EA6B's and an S2 tracker find it by morning.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 19, 2014)

ironpony said:


> my theory, first the pilots took the plane to 45000 ft, verified, no one would really notice this. Pilots put on oxygen masks, pilot then depressurizes cabin, yes they can do that manually.  At 45000 ft passengers would be unconscious in seconds, level flight 4 minutes, all passengers deceased. This is why there are no cell phone calls, texts or e-mails. The pilot then descends to 5000 ft and flies to one of the several hundred runways within  the planes flight range, verified. The plane will be fully fueled and WMD will be added, then it will be flown on a suicide mission to some area as a political statement.
> 
> I will answer some questions before asked, and there are several members on here with enough experience to back them up, contrary to what is being reported by "experts" on TV.
> 
> ...


S2 Vikings or mere flying dumpsters anymore. Trainer planes. They were last used as "Texaco's". In flight refueling.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 19, 2014)

ironpony said:


> my theory, first the pilots took the plane to 45000 ft, verified, no one would really notice this. Pilots put on oxygen masks, pilot then depressurizes cabin, yes they can do that manually.  At 45000 ft passengers would be unconscious in seconds, level flight 4 minutes, all passengers deceased. This is why there are no cell phone calls, texts or e-mails. The pilot then descends to 5000 ft and flies to one of the several hundred runways within  the planes flight range, verified. The plane will be fully fueled and WMD will be added, then it will be flown on a suicide mission to some area as a political statement.
> 
> I will answer some questions before asked, and there are several members on here with enough experience to back them up, contrary to what is being reported by "experts" on TV.
> 
> ...


And I'm pretty sure the Prowler is being phased out by the Super Hornet retrofitted with Prowler smart parts.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 19, 2014)

Then there's this  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/


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## KD0AXS (Mar 19, 2014)




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## BrotherBart (Mar 19, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> Then there's this  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/



Finally sanity intervenes in the conversation.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 19, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Finally sanity intervenes in the conversation.



Sanity? 

"Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot’s viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go?"

Really? This guy, being all broey because apparently pilots are smarter that everyone EVER...is the ONLY person asking this? Yeah, okay. 

Then there's this: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ckpit-checked-in-12-minutes-after-course-was/ which came out after Super Pilot aired his little strokes of brilliance on Wired.


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## ironpony (Mar 19, 2014)

not a bad theory except, 20 plus year impeccable service record, if it was an in flight fire people would be calling texting emailing, none were sent, not one. where is the debris field? alot of the components/ parts float, the fuel tank in the rudder alone could float the whole tail end of the plane. oil/fuel slick??? someday we will know.


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## Warm_in_NH (Mar 19, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Finally sanity intervenes in the conversation.



From wired 
"Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play."

Two stolen passports boarded the plane, no radio call for help, flight simulator in apartment....

No debris, no oil slick, no radar signature....

Who knows, but there's certainly enough evidence to investigate foul play until something, anything, is found, no?

Perhaps Russia has it, look, missing plane! Nothing going on here.....


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 19, 2014)

The cell phone issue has been repeatedly addressed. 

The wired article suits the principle of parsimony, an approach I always take in order to sort out answers in evolutionary biology, demonic possessions,  and missing airplanes


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

electrical fire, plenty of time for a mayday signal. there are protocols that are followed, none were, almost the exact opposite was done.
SARS pinged for 7 hours, establishing the 1000 mile radius of flight path possibilities.


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

Kool_hand_Looke said:


> S2 Vikings or mere flying dumpsters anymore. Trainer planes. They were last used as "Texaco's". In flight refueling.


 


Kool_hand_Looke said:


> And I'm pretty sure the Prowler is being phased out by the Super Hornet retrofitted with Prowler smart parts.


 


I know these are not state of the art anymore, I have been out of the aircraft field for 20 years. This is what I am familiar with and those planes are very capable off finding this "missing" aircraft. I can only imagine what we are capable of today. The S2's I am referring to are sub trackers, not sure if it what you are thinking of. I am retired from Grumman Aerospace, which built most of what was on a carrier, so my opinion is a little biased. I still bleed Grumman blue.
F-14, A6, EA6B, E2C, C2A, S2 and all the other great "CATS" Grumman built. NO other airplanes had the service life of a Grumman plane, especially on a carrier.


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## Beer Belly (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> my theory, first the pilots took the plane to 45000 ft, verified, no one would really notice this. Pilots put on oxygen masks, pilot then depressurizes cabin, yes they can do that manually.  At 45000 ft passengers would be unconscious in seconds, level flight 4 minutes, all passengers deceased. This is why there are no cell phone calls, texts or e-mails. The pilot then descends to 5000 ft and flies to one of the several hundred runways within  the planes flight range, verified. The plane will be fully fueled and WMD will be added, then it will be flown on a suicide mission to some area as a political statement.
> 
> I will answer some questions before asked, and there are several members on here with enough experience to back them up, contrary to what is being reported by "experts" on TV.
> 
> ...


 Does seem feasible....God help us if this scenario plays out.....I don't think anybody would be in a rush to shoot down an airliner


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> I know these are not state of the art anymore, I have been out of the aircraft field for 20 years. This is what I am familiar with and those planes are very capable off finding this "missing" aircraft. I can only imagine what we are capable of today. The S2's I am referring to are sub trackers, not sure if it what you are thinking of. I am retired from Grumman Aerospace, which built most of what was on a carrier, so my opinion is a little biased. I still bleed Grumman blue.
> F-14, A6, EA6B, E2C, C2A, S2 and all the other great "CATS" Grumman built. NO other airplanes had the service life of a Grumman plane, especially on a carrier.


Yep. Were talking about the same S2. The Navy removed it from sub hunting and used it for refueling services and retrofitted it for refueling capabilities. The forward projected sub hunting was passed on to HS-60 squadrons and the P3 Orion handles rotation sub hunting, among other things as well. There's also the E-6B, which has mre capabilities than the EA-6B Prowler. The E-6B...is a 777 itself operated out of Tinker AFB, OK. 

I will never EVER miss the EA-6B waking me up in the middle of the night...screaming across the sky. Or the Harrier.


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## razerface (Mar 20, 2014)

I heard an airplane go over my woods last week low,,,I kinda feel guilty for not reporting it now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## firefighterjake (Mar 20, 2014)

From what I understand cell phones have a limited range once in the air?

Seems like there are a lot of questions and a whole lot of guessing . . .

There are some things being revealed that may or may not prove to be important clues . . . or red herrings. For example, the pilot's flight simulator. Was this being used as a prelude to a nefarious plot . . . or was it simply a guy with a love of aviation? I mean to say, I know guys who have Gamewell Boxes and even have bought fire trucks as they love their career so much.

Truth is . . . right now no one has all the pieces in this puzzle.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 20, 2014)

Has anyone spoken to David Copperfield yet?


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## razerface (Mar 20, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> I know guys who have Gamewell Boxes and even have bought fire trucks as they love their career so much.
> .


i am guessing you own a firetruck? 

My cell phone has a limited range on the ground!


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## firefighterjake (Mar 20, 2014)

razerface said:


> i am guessing you own a firetruck?


 

Nope . . . too rich for my blood. But I do have a few other firefighting related items. That said . . . I know of at least one guy that at last count had one or two fire trucks . . . even put a fire pole in his house . . . seriously hardcore collector.


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## razerface (Mar 20, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> . . . even put a fire pole in his house . . .



well every guy wants that! You get to slide down it and it does double duty when the wife takes those pole dancing classes.


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## Jags (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> JAGS what are your thoughts??



I think we haven't found it yet.  Don't really know what to think beyond that.  Yes, our capabilities are awesome but that doesn't negate the fact that we have to be in the right area to locate it.
It will be found.  Maybe today, maybe next week or next year, but it will be found.  Let the facts come out.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> electrical fire, plenty of time for a mayday signal. there are protocols that are followed, none were, almost the exact opposite was done.
> SARS pinged for 7 hours, establishing the 1000 mile radius of flight path possibilities.


 

You may know airplanes and electronics, but we are also dealing with people and probabilities.  The simplest possibility is the most likely.  The simplest explanation with the highest probability of being correct is some kind of failure and crash.   The rest its just filler and hype.  All terrorist scenarios are complicated, unlikely, and with no understandable goal or outcome.   Stealing a plane scenarios are just as hare-brained.     But then you are reading fox news.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)

I pulled up a map of the Langkawi airport and if you lay a straight edge on the map lined up with a north/south approach you have a line straight into the Indian Ocean to right about where the sat shot of the floating stuff being investigated is located.

The airplane broke.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 20, 2014)

My question is,why would a pilot need or want to have a flight simulator set up in his house. Im thinking if he wanted to test legitimate theories he could find a simulator to use without going to all the trouble of setting up his own.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> You may know airplanes and electronics, but we are also dealing with people and probabilities.  The simplest possibility is the most likely.  The simplest explanation with the highest probability of being correct is some kind of failure and crash.   The rest its just filler and hype.  All terrorist scenarios are complicated, unlikely, and with no understandable goal or outcome.   Stealing a plane scenarios are just as hare-brained.     But then you are reading fox news.


Ahhhh yes. The enlightenment is spewing out like rainbow farts. 

Your logic is post hoc ergo propter laced...not to mention an inappropriate authority trying to excuse technical knowledge with probabilities; and lack thereof. Also, could you and BrotherBart beg the question anymore? (thats a rhetorical question btw)


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> You may know airplanes and electronics, but we are also dealing with people and probabilities.  The simplest possibility is the most likely.  The simplest explanation with the highest probability of being correct is some kind of failure and crash.   The rest its just filler and hype.  All terrorist scenarios are complicated, unlikely, and with no understandable goal or outcome.   Stealing a plane scenarios are just as hare-brained.     But then you are reading fox news.






the few known facts, transponder turned off 12 mins before the last radio call. the U turn was programmed in the flight plan 2 stolen passports plane flew for hours after last radio call. electrical fire pilot sends mayday period


minus the huge debris field that has not been found for 13 days.


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I pulled up a map of the Langkawi airport and if you lay a straight edge on the map lined up with a north/south approach you have a line straight into the Indian Ocean to right about where the sat shot of the floating stuff being investigated is located.
> 
> *The airplane broke*.





after flying several more hours to reach where the debris is


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> My question is,why would a pilot need or want to have a flight simulator set up in his house. Im thinking if he wanted to test legitimate theories he could find a simulator to use without going to all the trouble of setting up his own.






actually pretty normal for  pilot


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> after flying several more hours to reach where the debris is



Autopilot gonna fly till it runs out of gas. They had about six hours of fuel left. Get out the tape and do the math.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

Kool_hand_Looke said:


> Ahhhh yes. The enlightenment is spewing out like rainbow farts.
> 
> Your logic is post hoc ergo propter laced...not to mention an inappropriate authority trying to excuse technical knowledge with probabilities; and lack thereof. Also, could you and BrotherBart beg the question anymore? (thats a rhetorical question btw)


 
Awwww, they've been letting you draw 8 scrabble tiles per turn again.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Autopilot gonna fly till it runs out of gas. They had about six hours of fuel left. Get out the tape and do the math.


Did auto pilot shut the comms reporting off 12 minutes before the last broadcast?


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)

The plane was shot down. The shot came from the Grassy Knoll.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> Awwww, they've been letting you draw 8 scrabble tiles per turn again.


Uhhhh...yeah. Real funny. 

Sorry, this underling cain't undastand you. I only speak 'Merica! (Oh, that was sarcasm...a constant probabilty, and variable that doesn't need academia or intelligentsia to dissect; a language understood by all)

And Scrabble is boring. And for old people.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

Who exactly is the conspiracy theorist again?

I'm not saying the plane shook itself apart after it burned up...then flew for another 7 hours on autopilot.

But...what I am saying is there are TOO MANY variables to say right now "Eh, it's AAA AND 9 volt batteries got hot like tying a nine inch nail in a loop and brought the plane down, after disabling the entire craft WHILE the pilots were firefighting and flying at the same time."

That's no different than saying "Well, brown people stole it and are duct taping Chernobyl to the belly of it."


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

Becoming hostile over differing opinions is boring.


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Autopilot gonna fly till it runs out of gas. They had about six hours of fuel left. Get out the tape and do the math.








so what were all the people on the plane doing??? were they sleeping?? dead??? electrical fire but auto pilot functions fine?? which theory is it?
splashed by Migs?


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> Becoming hostile over differing opinions is boring.


Hostile? I thought it was a running dialogue, perhaps some sarcastic banter as well. 

This site is RIFE with sarcasm. No?

What's boring...is when someone tries to act (key word) like the smartest and biggest brain in the room.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

Kool_hand_Looke said:


> the smartest and biggest brain in the room.


 
Yes, it's crystal clear that my smart big brain makes you hostile.


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> You may know airplanes and electronics, but we are also dealing with* people and probabilities*.  The simplest possibility is the most likely.  The simplest explanation with the highest probability of being correct is some kind of failure and crash.   The rest its just filler and hype.  All terrorist scenarios are complicated, unlikely, and with no understandable goal or outcome.   Stealing a plane scenarios are just as hare-brained.     But then you are reading fox news.





the pilot belonged to an anti democracy group and his crazy leader was sentenced to 5 years in jail that morning. A trial which he attended while he should of been sleeping for his extended flight. Wife ad kids left him, think he may of Snapped??? can you say pilot suicide?? that is the only variable in my theory. If the pilot stole the plane it is on land some where, if he committed suicide it is in the water, unlikely no debris found. the beginning of my theory stands as is. It was a deliberate plan either way.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)

The airplane broke.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

filler and hype


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## fossil (Mar 20, 2014)

Whatever happened to the airplane isn't worth people getting all passive-aggressive, condescending, obnoxious and arrogant about.  Discuss or don't discuss...but don't let the thread go out on the schoolyard for recess, that's just stupid.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Mar 20, 2014)

Yes Mr. Fossil <hangs head>


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 20, 2014)

Aliens took it.


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## Ktm300 (Mar 20, 2014)

I wonder who insures that airplane. If I had to insure them I'd want to know where they are from my desk. My truck has a LoJack system in it and it drops my insurance a little.


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## begreen (Mar 20, 2014)

ironpony said:


> the few known facts, transponder turned off 12 mins before the last radio call. the U turn was programmed in the flight plan 2 stolen passports plane flew for hours after last radio call. electrical fire pilot sends mayday period
> 
> 
> minus the huge debris field that has not been found for 13 days.


With an Electrical fire the first thing you do is start shutting off breakers. You communicate once the situation is assessable and reportable and you know it's safe to turn that breaker back on. If you are dealing with smoke inhalation there are life saving priorities ahead of calling home.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)

It was the ACRS that transmitted 12 minutes before the handoff transmission from the co-pilot. The ACRS wasn't scheduled to transmit again for 30 more minutes after its last transmission.

ACRS is not a constant transmitting black box. Why they still have black boxes. It's a bandwidth thing.

The shot came from the Grassy Knoll.


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## fossil (Mar 20, 2014)

We've eliminated every other possibility.  It's time we faced reality:


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## Warm_in_NH (Mar 20, 2014)

They're all on a beautiful tropical island with polar bears, underground bunkers, and some sort of smoke monster.


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## Kool_hand_Looke (Mar 20, 2014)

Mrs. Krabappel said:


> Yes, it's crystal clear that my smart big brain makes you hostile.



Djdjdjdjdkwkjdjdjrnr!

See that? I just blew a fuse and had an electrical fire from laugh so freaking hard. 

Good thing my autopilot is still flying.


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## ironpony (Mar 20, 2014)

Problem solved CNN reporter just announced the plane was sucked into a black hole, boy am I relieved.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2014)




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## firefighterjake (Mar 21, 2014)

fossil said:


> We've eliminated every other possibility.  It's time we faced reality:
> 
> View attachment 130130



But they're nowhere near Bermuda . . .


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## razerface (Mar 21, 2014)

They show the debris the satellite found, but say they can't tell what it is. It sure is funny that they can see it from space, but cannot make it that last 100 ft to see it clearly.  Sorta like there are no clear photos of Bigfoot or a UFO.


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## Doug MacIVER (Mar 21, 2014)

finally a good guess?


 global warming!!


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## hoverwheel (Mar 21, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Aliens took it.



FINALLY a voice of reason!


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

ironpony said:


> my theory, first the pilots took the plane to 45000 ft, verified, no one would really notice this. Pilots put on oxygen masks, pilot then depressurizes cabin, yes they can do that manually.  At 45000 ft passengers would be unconscious in seconds, level flight 4 minutes, all passengers deceased. This is why there are no cell phone calls, texts or e-mails. The pilot then descends to 5000 ft and flies to one of the several hundred runways within  the planes flight range, verified. The plane will be fully fueled and WMD will be added, then it will be flown on a suicide mission to some area as a political statement.
> 
> I will answer some questions before asked, and there are several members on here with enough experience to back them up, contrary to what is being reported by "experts" on TV.
> 
> ...




I'm gonna get in trouble for not reading the entire thread... But anyway there are some technical issues with this.

#1. Service ceiling has nothing to do with the plane breaking up. Its about having enough excess power from the engines to have climb power available and maintain a resonable cruise speed. As altitude increases, the air gets thinner and the wings produce less lift. You compensate by flying a higher angle of attack, trading airspeed for lift and drag. At a certain point you pass an optimum ratio of speed to range, and in fact if you pay attention most long distance flights follow a step climb routine where they fly higher through the flight as fuel is burned off and the plane lightens.

The mechanism is so common that in fact most all modern airliners have similar service ceilings in the low 40s. There is a second 'absolute ceiling, and this is the altitude where they need to use 100% thrust just to maintain altitude and typically the speed at this apt is very low because they need a high angle of attack and are using all available power just to make lift.

The rest of the theory seems a bit of a stretch. What makes no sense to me is that all communications shut off so long before it disappeared completely. Seems to me that something happened to very suddenly incapacitate the crew and passengers but not so bad to prevent it continuing on autopilot for a while before going down.explosive decompression? Maybe.. But hard to think at least one of the crew wouldn't have gotten a mask on and been able to mayday. And still doesn't answer why they changed course and shutoff all radios and transponders.

The entire thing is odd. My wife is convinced we have secret super satellites that know where it is to the inch. I'm not and think they are going to be searching the ocean for years....


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

razerface said:


> They show the debris the satellite found, but say they can't tell what it is. It sure is funny that they can see it from space, but cannot make it that last 100 ft to see it clearly.  Sorta like there are no clear photos of Bigfoot or a UFO.


 





 they can read the date on a coin on the ground and cant see a 75 long piece of debris......


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

I'm struggling here...what makes us think satellites have cameras that can read a coin???


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

jharkin said:


> I'm gonna get in trouble for not reading the entire thread... But anyway there are some technical issues with this.
> 
> #1. Service ceiling has nothing to do with the plane breaking up. Its about having enough excess power from the engines to have climb power available and maintain a resonable cruise speed. As altitude increases, the air gets thinner and the wings produce less lift. You compensate by flying a higher angle of attack, trading airspeed for lift and drag. At a certain point you pass an optimum ratio of speed to range, and in fact if you pay attention most long distance flights follow a step climb routine where they fly higher through the flight as fuel is burned off and the plane lightens.
> 
> ...


 




1) the plane did not break up it was still flying. agreed but they were only 1500 ft above service ceiling. the crew was not incapacitated, they put on oxygen and the passengers did not. the crew did not want to contact anyone. I agree with you wife, if I can go on google and zoom in on my house and see stuff in the courtyard, pile of wood, I am sure the Govt capabilities are a little better.


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

jharkin said:


> I'm struggling here...what makes us think satellites have cameras that can read a coin???


 


I know for a fact 20 yrs ago when I was involved with Navy aircraft we could see a dime on the ground and know if it was heads or tails. fast forward 20 yrs it is believable.


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## Warm_in_NH (Mar 21, 2014)

Remember this? 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash

So my gf, heard from her boss who was working on a guys teeth, who was in, but still has friends in the Navy who know people who said they already picked up the signal of the black boxes from a sub but it's super deep and they're waiting for some sort of confirmation before releasing the info. 

Everyone loves a good mystery.


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

ironpony said:


> I know for a fact 20 yrs ago when I was involved with Navy aircraft we could see a dime on the ground and know if it was heads or tails. fast forward 20 yrs it is believable.



Reconnaissance aircraft cameras may indeed have better resolution than satellite as they are a lot closer to the ground. Have we got a plane out there to get eyes on this thing? And do you think the Malaysians have anything even close to our capabilities?


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

ironpony said:


> 1) the plane did not break up it was still flying. agreed but they were only 1500 ft above service ceiling. the crew was not incapacitated, they put on oxygen and the passengers did not. the crew did not want to contact anyone. I agree with you wife, if I can go on google and zoom in on my house and see stuff in the courtyard, pile of wood, I am sure the Govt capabilities are a little better.



My point was, you wrote that an aircraft will break up if it exceeds the ceiling. This is not true, the ceiling is just the point where it no longer has enough excess engine power/thrust to keep climbing.


Also, for your theory to work they needed to also disable the automatic emergency deployment of oxygen masks in the passenger compartment, prevent flight attendants from reaching the portable tanks throughout the cabin, etc. And they had to do this faster than anyone could react. A manual cabin depress is a slow process, its not instantaneous and explosive like a window blowing out.

Highly unlikely....


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## johneh (Mar 21, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Aliens took it.




X2 
but do not become afraid 
I have tin foil hats for ever one


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2014)

Latest search area turns up nothing. Mystery deepens. Israeli official float theory that plane was stolen to be used as a WMD.
Only on FOX news of course.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...hreats-prompt-israel-to-tighten-air-security/


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## fossil (Mar 21, 2014)

We all have computers...I don't see the utility of repeating all the up to the minute news bulletins on Hearth.com

Actually, I wonder whether this thread has (or ever had) any utility at all.


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## woodgeek (Mar 21, 2014)

AS for satellites, the limits of optics are well known.  The hubble telescope is a rebuilt spy satellite airframe looking up rather than down.  Works out to a few mm on the ground.

Of course, scanning the whole Indian Ocean at mm resolution would take a century.  Targeted observations and scanning whole area at the same res....totally different things re feasibility.


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## mass_burner (Mar 21, 2014)

well, if i remember my twilight zone episodes, the plane is either in some hangar somewhere never having taken off; or flew into a storm and emerged 150 years in the past.


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## Laurent Cyr (Mar 21, 2014)

This guy would know where the plane is.......


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

mass_burner said:


> well, if i remember my twilight zone episodes, the plane is either in some hangar somewhere never having taken off; or flew into a storm and emerged 150 years in the past.



Don't forget the demon ripping open the engine that only William Shatner can see


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

jtharkin, go to google earth or mapquest etc, type in your address, switch to satellite mode and zoom in on your house. I am sure you have tried this, if you can get that resolution from a satellite, imagine what the govt is capable of. also at 45,000 ft a person would be unconscious in 2-3 seconds and the oxygen can be shut down from the cockpit. remember at this point the pilot could care less about anyone aboard, he is not going to be nice about it.  
well we will have to wait and see, as another experts location has produced nothing enough said by me.


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## Grisu (Mar 21, 2014)

ironpony said:


> jtharkin, go to google earth or mapquest etc, type in your address, switch to satellite mode and zoom in on your house. I am sure you have tried this, if you can get that resolution from a satellite, imagine what the govt is capable of.



Talking about resolution is beside the point. Take 1000 quarters and throw them randomly across the entire southwest. Sure some government agency satellites can see whether they are heads or tails if they can find them. High resolution cameras are not that helpful when you want to look at an area that is several 1000 square miles big. Plus, which country will sacrifice days of expensive satellite time to find an airplane that almost certainly drowned? Not to mention pay the guys who would analyze all those pictures? You are also searching in an area that is surely not that well covered anyway since you look at a lot of empty ocean. Moving satellites is again expensive if it is even possible at all. This ain't Hollywood and we are not looking for Will Smith.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 21, 2014)

Love Goggle Earth though. In the last update I could see my cat sleeping next to the woodpile.


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## WiscWoody (Mar 21, 2014)

drewmo said:


> No idea, but the longer it stays missing the more likely it is hidden someplace. Given it's been 12 days disappeared, had it crashed in the ocean, a chunk of that plane would have been found by now.


The indian is a big ocean. And can you imagine how deep it is? Up to 4 1/2 miles deep! It's in the ocen somewhere IMO.


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## jharkin (Mar 21, 2014)

ironpony said:


> jtharkin, go to google earth or mapquest etc, type in your address, switch to satellite mode and zoom in on your house. I am sure you have tried this, if you can get that resolution from a satellite, imagine what the govt is capable of. also at 45,000 ft a person would be unconscious in 2-3 seconds and the oxygen can be shut down from the cockpit. remember at this point the pilot could care less about anyone aboard, he is not going to be nice about it.
> well we will have to wait and see, as another experts location has produced nothing enough said by me.



Again, you are assuming an instantaneous depressurization like a window blowing out. If the pilots opened the depress valve it would not happen that fast... The attendants would feel their ears pop and know what's happening, and I'm relatively certain the cabin oxygen masks deploy automatically.

Also, I looked up the chart. Even at 45000 ft  the rated TUC ( time of useful consciousness) is almost 10 sec. Its close to 20 sec at a mere 40k. And again this is after the cabin fully depressurized widh might take a minute or so.

Unless you think the pilots walked back and just threw open a door????


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Talking about resolution is beside the point. Take 1000 quarters and throw them randomly across the entire southwest. Sure some government agency satellites can see whether they are heads or tails if they can find them. High resolution cameras are not that helpful when you want to look at an area that is several 1000 square miles big. Plus, which country will sacrifice days of expensive satellite time to find an airplane that almost certainly drowned? Not to mention pay the guys who would analyze all those pictures? You are also searching in an area that is surely not that well covered anyway since you look at a lot of empty ocean. Moving satellites is again expensive if it is even possible at all. This ain't Hollywood and we are not looking for Will Smith.







my point is when they do see something it is blurry. the piece was supposedly 75 feet long and they could not tell what it was? or at least have a clear picture?


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## ironpony (Mar 21, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Again, you are assuming an instantaneous depressurization like a window blowing out. If the pilots opened the depress valve it would not happen that fast... The attendants would feel their ears pop and know what's happening, and I'm relatively certain the cabin oxygen masks deploy automatically.
> 
> Also, I looked up the chart. Even at 45000 ft  the rated TUC ( time of useful consciousness) is almost 10 sec. Its close to 20 sec at a mere 40k. And again this is after the cabin fully depressurized widh might take a minute or so.
> 
> Unless you think the pilots walked back and just threw open a door????






my final post on this topic.  The masks drop automatically, the pilot still controls the oxygen flow. O.K.  it takes 2 mnis to depressurize, the passengers realize it. the pilots are in a cockpit which is secure against intrusion, what are the passengers going to do? even if it took 10 mins, there is nothing they can do.


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## WiscWoody (Mar 21, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> My question is,why would a pilot need or want to have a flight simulator set up in his house. Im thinking if he wanted to test legitimate theories he could find a simulator to use without going to all the trouble of setting up his own.


From someone who has flown but minimums became too pricey, to keep my license, his sim looked pretty nice. He could set up different scenarios and test his strategies. He had over two years in the air so I'd think he was good at what he did.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 21, 2014)

Done until we get more news than "There is no new news.".


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