# Pellet boiler



## Fredman (May 6, 2008)

I was thinking about a pellet boiler for my garage I am going to build either this summer or next. 30 x 60 x 16 with two zones. I am going to have in floor heat with four inches under the slab of insulation. I know already that my outside wood boiler will just eat the wood like it is nobody's business. I figured I would go through 20 full cords heating both and I am not interested about cutting that up every year. Just looking for now and will compare about updating to a more efficient outside stove or just running the outside stove to my house and a pellet boiler in my shop.


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## Wet1 (May 7, 2008)

Fredman said:
			
		

> I was thinking about a pellet boiler for my garage I am going to build either this summer or next. 30 x 60 x 16 with two zones. I am going to have in floor heat with four inches under the slab of insulation. I know already that my outside wood boiler will just eat the wood like it is nobody's business. I figured I would go through 20 full cords heating both and I am not interested about cutting that up every year. Just looking for now and will compare about updating to a more efficient outside stove or just running the outside stove to my house and a pellet boiler in my shop.



Yes.


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## thomcoastal (May 14, 2008)

Brand new to the forum....I am looking at installing (in a parallel arrangement with my oil hot water furnace - Riello and Biasi) a pellet boiler.  I am looking at the Tarm Multi Heat (Pellet/Corn), Harmon PF105 or the Pinnacle PB 150.  Is there any specific reason to throw one or more of those out of the mix completely??  I need some of the veterans of the forum to give me info as heating oil for a 1200 gallon pre-buy price today topped $4.15/gallon in Bangor Maine. 

My house is 2700 square feet but spread out in basically two 2-story houses connected by a 14 by 22 addition.  Odd configuration so the house uses 1600 gallons/year. I need help as the local shops are starting to get a back up of over 45 days at this point don’t want to wait too long.... House has 60% radiant 40% baseboards for heat output...any specific suggestions.....


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## nchezy (May 18, 2008)

My situation is almost a mirror image of yours - I am in Brunswick area.  I have been looking into pellet boiler options pretty hard also.  The Tarm unit is about $11k (they were doing $1k rebate  up through 5/15/08).  The Harmon and the other you mentioned are closer to $7k for the boiler.  I was also looking at Verner and Orlan - both are next to  impossible to get your hands on - seems like there are about 20 units or less sent over from Europe as the US quota.  Then I heard about Maine Energy Systems (Les Otten's venture).  I am ready to send in my $500 deposit tomorrow.  The boilers are about $8100 or $8,800 for the larger unit and they are goint to be doing bulk delivery for $250/ton - I am not sure if they will service Bangor yet.


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## thomcoastal (May 27, 2008)

I have not gotten any good info from the Maine Energy Sysytems as to availablity in Bangor - The website says yes but no one has contacted me yet to provide any info on the pricing or availablity.  If the boilers are as good as they are portrayed to be I'm in.  I can get bulk delivery for $235 from a local supplier in either 1 ton bags or 40 lb bags.  I am also looking into several boiler stoves from Europe (Ecotherm H2O 34, Artel 14, Etc) so I can avoid the needed tear-out to make entry into my limited access basement.  But if they are not able to work on 60Hz (rather than 50Hz - European power standard) I am willing to hand a pile of money to Mr. Otten to ensure my pre-buy (this week is $4.59/gallon) doesn't put me in the poor house or worse the street.


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## PelletOwner (May 27, 2008)

I know a guy at MEsys - he tells me that installations should begin in late july/early august.  I actually own a system similar to their installed systems, and they have selected some fantastic parts for their system.  I use an inverter, but they say that they should have worked out the 50Hz/60Hz stuff in the next few weeks so you don't have to buy any extra electrical equipment.  

I want to stress that MEsys is going to be the only American seller of European-built Janfire/Bosch systems that are appropriate for use on a 60Hz/120VAC line.  I'm looking at modifying my own equipment courtesy of MEsys - my inverter makes a high-pitched whine you can hear within thirty feet of the basement door, and it's in a corner behind my pellet hopper!

Edit: also they're putting distribution centers in Bangor, Lewiston, Rockland, Norway, and Portland, so yes, you'll be able to get pellets delivered this winter.


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## thomcoastal (May 28, 2008)

Got a reply from ME Sys.  They are training the installers the next three weeks and the first shipment of boilers will be in the Port of Portland by June 3rd.  Installation should begin for the names on the reserved list nearly immediately.

After doing some research on the system they are installing, it apppears to be a great system.  Less maintainance than the comparable Harman and/or Traeger and less expensive than the Tarm.  The info from Europe says the equipment has at least a six year history with very low rates of failure (less than 3%).  The main failure appears to be related to failure to protect against surges and brown-outs which is a simple fix (use of voltage conditioning system like UPS systems used to protect computers.

I am hopefull that the demand for the stoves continues which will ensure trained techincal staff will continue as well.  Pellets are so preferrable to wood for me as I don't have a wood lot and do have a very small area of my yard to dedicate to storage (plenty for pellets for the year but not enough for log-length logs or split logs to be delivered).  I have pellet quotes from local suppliers for my 8-10 tons of pellets from 220/ton (plus a single $40 delivery fee) to 250/ton delivered.  Considering my local purchase price for a single 250 gallon purchase will be over $1140, I am looking forward to the "hassle" of feeding a pellet boiler for the winter.


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## Richardin52 (May 28, 2008)

I put in a Pinnacle PB 150 in April and have not shut it off yet.  Heats all the hot water and heat for a four unit apartment.  I'm about to run insulated pex to a duplex next door.

I went with a Pinnacle because it can run at 85,000 BTU's or 130,000 BTU's and is a listed boiler so I know it is safe.

A tarm in Wilton had fire back up the auger and start the pellet hopper on fire.

I got mine through Mark Norwood at Evergreen Heat in Old Orchard.  He is a great source of info.

I figure I will heat for about 1/3 of what I would be paying for oil this winter.  Thats the differents between making money renting or going in the hole.


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## PelletOwner (May 28, 2008)

I talked to a MEsys rep today and they said that they've been receiving a lot of interest about training to install their system.  Apparently oil has a leg up on the pellet industry: only those with a master qualification in solid fuel can install them, whereas someone with a journeyman or master qualification in oil heat can install oil heat alone.  This means that a pellet installer is going to be more knowledgeable about the system, but it also means that there are much fewer installers are available.

Another interesting bit about MEsys; they're going to be offering a set price on pellets (I think 260 a ton delivered, you didn't hear this from me) to those who purchase an installation and system.


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## thomcoastal (May 28, 2008)

Looking at the specs on the systems being bantered by the MESys people, I am now much more likely to choose them if they are in the ballpark for dropping and plumbing the system into my existing system.  I still don't know if the system can be vented through the wall or needs a lined chimney for exhaust.  Sent a specific e-mail I hope to get a reply soon.  I'll let you know what I know when I know....

I just found out the local pellet supplier (a non-big box hardware store) has a 10% off coupon on all purchases....off to pay for my pellets for the year (8 tons) and save even more on heating my home! Happy Heating!!


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## webbie (May 28, 2008)

Janfire,

Just to confirm for our board.....

Do you have any financial or other tie to the boiler brands or suppliers you are discussing? Your posts seem to be more advertising than anything else. We are pretty rigid about the boards not being used for commercial "plugs" without full disclosure of relationships. 

Let us know so it does not end up discrediting you or those you (possibly) represent.


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## PelletOwner (May 28, 2008)

I have a similar system, and I know someone who works there.  *I'm not employed by nor own stock in MEsys.*

They have sweet parts and a sweet system, and someone who works there helped me (on their off time!) order parts directly from suppliers in Europe so I could get the system installed.

I guess I do look like a bit of a corporate shill, but I haven't had any problems with my system and I'm very satisfied with its performance.

Edit: I am satisfied with its performance to the point of recommending it to anyone who needs to keep their house warm.  I have faith in the products that I bought and I have faith in the pellet fuel market.

Edit 2: I'll try and keep the MEsys cheerleading down, but it's a little hard when your favorite pellet burner/boiler is only sold by one distributor


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## thomcoastal (May 28, 2008)

The Janfire appears to be a sweet system.  Have you have yours on yet?  I'd like to know how it works if and when you fire it up.

I am waiting to get some last specs for other systems (3 European pellet boiler stoves and two pellet boilers) and I may be joining you in the Janfire System.


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## PelletOwner (May 28, 2008)

I actually use it for my hot water and my nighttime heat.  It has a modulating fan so you get constant heat instead of starting and stopping, and it has an automatic control for pretty much everything, from loading to firing.  My installer told me that it would even warn me when it needed ashing, but I'm keeping my own schedule   When I want to show it off, I turn on some hot water taps, and it does the rest.

I haven't had any problems with anything, really.  Installation was smooth and seamless, even with a preexisting oil burner from god knows how long ago.  They had to replace my hot water tank so it wouldn't burst at 180 degrees.  The pellet burner itself worked the instant I plugged in my inverter.  It was really neat to see the system auger up pellets from the hopper, load it into the burner, and have the burner fire for the first time.  If I could do it over again, I'd get transparent auger casings so I could see the pellets come up.

One interesting thing that I haven't seen prominently on any other systems is a low melting point plastic tube between the hopper and the burner.  If the pellets start to burn back, the hose connecting the pellets and the burner disintegrates and I don't have millions and millions of BTU's per hour


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## thomcoastal (May 28, 2008)

I curently have a hot water maker/boiler mate to make hot water from the current boiler - the system use are using produces 180 degree water from the boiler and then it is mixed down at the outlet by use of a mixing valve (It that right?).

I can't stand the sound of my oil burner come on during warm weather to produce a tank of hot water by heat exchange.


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## ugenetoo (May 29, 2008)

Maine Thom said:
			
		

> I curently have a hot water maker/boiler mate to make hot water from the current boiler - the system use are using produces 180 degree water from the boiler and then it is mixed down at the outlet by use of a mixing valve (It that right?).
> 
> I can't stand the sound of my oil burner come on during warm weather to produce a tank of hot water by heat exchange.



i know the feeling about hearing the oil burner running.

most boilermates are set up like another zone in your boiler system. when the water needs to be heated, a circulator pumps boiler water (+/-180 deg) into a coil inside the domestic water tank until the desired hot water temp is reached. mine is set at 133 degrees. a mixing valve is used where i want the domestic h/w to be less than 133 degrees.


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## thomcoastal (May 29, 2008)

The Janfire system that is being proposed by MESys apparently produces only domestic grade hot water from the system.  The water is produced at 180 degrees and is sent to the hot water storage tank at that temperature.  When the water is used it is mixed at the outlet of the tank to typical domestic water temp (135-145).  It seems like it would be a much better use of heat produced than the heat exchanger model most of us use but I am not sure of the exact benefit.

I am waiting on the details from the tech rep for 3 seperate models of boiler stoves to let me know the specifics on running in the US (60 Hz rather than 50Hz). The models are the ECOTHERM H2O 34 (34 Kw total 15% to room and 85% to the water - cost 7100 to get here but it is great to look at in our living room and would add more than my maximum heat load to my existing setup) and the Artel 14 Boiler stove (14 Kw 5% to the room and 95% to the water but if I add storage it should supply nearly all my heating needs with the exception of the coldest days below Zero F), the last one is actually a series,  MCZ makes several models of Pellet boiler stoves which could meet my needs as well.

The Artel rep just responded, it will operate fine on 60Hz and the total cost of getting the stove here is $7094.60 - a lot of money but it vents through the wall, is located in living space and would meet my heat and hot water needs for 350 days per year.  I need to get a bit more info on the other stoves before I jump.


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## ugenetoo (May 30, 2008)

is it a domestic h/w coil in the furnace?


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## PelletOwner (May 30, 2008)

No, it's a downmixed hot water tank.  The benefit is that you don't have the heat loss from a big surface area tank and can minimise the heat loss total from the hot water tank while the water is being stored.

If you wanted 180 degree water I'm sure you could ask your plumber to stick a valve in there, but.......why?  Do you need a tea faucet?


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## ugenetoo (May 31, 2008)

so if i understand you correctly, the janfire unit only produces domestic hot water? as in you could actually drink the water running through your baseboards?


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## PelletOwner (May 31, 2008)

No, the baseboards have 180 degree heat.  The water tank is 180 degrees, but it uses a mixing valve for tap hot water.


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## Willman (May 31, 2008)

> One interesting thing that I haven’t seen prominently on any other systems is a low melting point plastic tube between the hopper and the burner.  If the pellets start to burn back, the hose connecting the pellets and the burner disintegrates and I don’t have millions and millions of BTU’s per hour wink



Does the Bosch set up from MES have a plastic (melt able) link ? How about some pics of your set up,or maybe even a short video on u tube ?
Will


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## PelletOwner (Jun 1, 2008)

http://www.maineenergysystems.com/Pellet_Boiler_Program.htm

Here's a photo of a similar tube on the MEsys website.  I'm not about to go setting the tube on fire because it's relatively expensive.


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## webbie (Jun 1, 2008)

Is that really a "feature"?

One can assume that if pellets are burning back into the plastic tube, and it melts, that burning pellets can then both drop and get access to air (to burn more)...plus ignite anything that is on the floor, etc.

Explain the benefits, please.

Are you sure that isn't just an outside combustion air intake?


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

When the pellets start to catch on fire "before" the burn cup, the auger in the burner clears them into the boiler.  If the auger is stuck, the pellets can burn all the way through the burner and into the feeder tube above it.  That tube, which connects the hopper auger to the burner, melts away, which does increase the amount of oxygen to the fire, but also prevents its spread.  Since the fire is isolated, it doesn't spread to the hopper - and you don't see a 56 million BTU fire in your basement.


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## Richardin52 (Jun 2, 2008)

[quote author="Webmaster" date="1212297531"]Is that really a "feature"?

One can assume that if pellets are burning back into the plastic tube, and it melts, that burning pellets can then both drop and get access to air (to burn more)...plus ignite anything that is on the floor, etc.

Explain the benefits, please.


If it is posible this can happen I would say this is very dangerous indeed and the boiler will have a hard time getting a listing from any testing laboratory like UL etc.

Don't want to burst anybodies bubble here but Pinnical boilers made in BC Canada and sold for $6,700.  have been tested and are listed and have a double auger system that cannot back feed.  

They have been on the market for some time and have a very very good safty record.  I have one and will have to say it would be hard to beat this boiler as far as safe and effeceint operation is concerned.  Did someone say they will be asking $12,000? for a Janfire??


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## Sting (Jun 2, 2008)

Rich said:
			
		

> If it is posible this can happen I would say this is very dangerous indeed and the boiler will have a hard time getting a listing from any testing laboratory like UL etc.
> 
> Don't want to burst anybodies bubble here but Pinnical boilers made in BC Canada and sold for $6,700.  have been tested and are listed and have a double auger system that cannot back feed.
> 
> They have been on the market for some time and have a very very good safty record.  I have one and will have to say it would be hard to beat this boiler as far as safe and effeceint operation is concerned.  Did someone say they will be asking $12,000? for a Janfire??



Plus a safety snap switch to shut down if the feed cup does become too hot - as in a burn back and a snap switch to shut the feed off if you loose the idle fire.  Its too bad UL made them change from inducing combustion air directly by fan, to a power vent induced combustion air.  But the feed system is still the most robust of others discussed here - second only to the far more expensive Baxi and its 240 volt worm gear reduction feed motor.

This Janfire stuff it just too much of a cult!


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

It's already been UL approved, the safety record is fantastic (<2% failure rate in Europe, mostly due to bad pellets), they don't "back feed" (not sure where you got this one), and cost $8300.  You seem to be very concerned about the safety of this model, but you put out a different system that actually doesn't have the safeguards that this system does in terms of separating the fuel and the burner.  I mean, two augers is great, but you have to tell me where they are or what they do or else it's useless to mention.

I'm not sure where you get this $12000 figure unless you're including the installation, in which case you're comparing an uninstalled boiler to a boiler that's installed with a new hot water tank, hopper, bulk pellet feed, possible chimney replacement, etc.  Hell, Janfire only makes burners for the United States, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "Janfire boiler" thing.  Bosch makes the boiler, Janfire makes the burner.  You can switch these parts out if you want.  Janfire and Bosch have been making burners and boilers since the last oil crisis - and stayed in business long enough to make their boilers/burners very efficient.  I'm talking about decades of R&D;- when most American/Canadian boilers are still on their first or second hardware revision.

I'm also not seeing a Pinnacle pellet boiler on their website.  Maybe they discontinued the line?

Ah, nevermind, it's the Traeger line.  Traeger seems to be a bit preoccupied with making grills than making boilers.

So, the Pinnacle boiler has a hopper capacity of...four 40 lb bags?  With an internal hopper?  And you think it's SAFER?  No, thanks, I'd rather keep my fuel source separate from where it's burned.  I'm also not seeing any failsafes prominently displayed on their site.

I'd really appreciate it if people didn't go "OMG 12K SO EXPENSIVE" when they haven't even checked with a local installer to see whether or not it's going to be thousands of dollars to install system X.  Chances are you're going to spend a little less on installation than on the boiler, but not much less.


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## sinnian (Jun 2, 2008)

PelletOwner,

Your information is a little misleading.  This is what you get for your $83*99*:

"Elsewhere on the site, $12,500 has been estimated as the installed price of a Bosch/MESys boiler system. That price includes a boiler, a burner, a feed auger, and installation.  It is purely an estimate assuming a general installation charge that can vary widely based on the actual installation required.  This figure also doesn't include a storage bin as there are many options both indoor and outdoor.  

Boiler/burner systems: (discounts are available for certified dealers)

    * 4-section Bosch boiler with Janfire NH burner and 2 meter feed auger, $8,399
    * 6-section Bosch boiler with Janfire NH burner and 2 meter feed auger, $9,499

Storage bins:

    * Bin dimensions and prices to be posted soon.

Indirect water tank

    * 42 gallon Bosch tank  (stores water at full boiler temperature to be mixed for domestic hot water) , $655"

That does not include any piping, both for water and venting, delivery, electrical, labor, etc.  $12k+ is NOT out of the question.  I bought a pellet boiler for $2k+ less and I am looking at around $10k (hopefully) with the above (piping, delivery, electrical, labor, and indirect tank (wish I could get that Bosch for $655 though)).


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

I guess I could have phrased that better.  It just grinds my gears a little bit when people don't bother to talk about the cost of installation, accessories, etc when they talk about "MY SPECIAL X SYSTEM ONLY COST Y DOLLARS".  I'm not going to lie, my system cost a little more than that (but I also ordered european parts).  It's misleading for both sides to quote the raw boiler price, and I guess I just got a little frustrated with the whole "my system is cheaper without delivery or installation, therefore better" thing.

$12.5 typical install.  Mine was $14.5k, but I also bought imported parts and needed an inverter v  v


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## Sting (Jun 2, 2008)

PelletOwner said:
			
		

> I'm also not seeing a Pinnacle pellet boiler on their website.  Maybe they discontinued the line?
> 
> Ah, nevermind, it's the Traeger line.  Traeger seems to be a bit preoccupied with making grills than making boilers.
> 
> So, the Pinnacle boiler has a hopper capacity of...four 40 lb bags?  With an internal hopper?  And you think it's SAFER?  No, thanks, I'd rather keep my fuel source separate from where it's burned.  I'm also not seeing any failsafes prominently displayed on their site.



Your a fanatic aren't you????

You can cast dispersions at every competing appliance but you don't take the time to look at the specifications that you claim others fail to see!

As I mentioned above - this smacks more of a cult than a heater - and you extol the features and benefits more like a shill than a owner!


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

Sting said:
			
		

> PelletOwner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I looked at the manual here: http://www.pinnaclestove.com/sheets/pb150mn.pdf

I still don't see all the safety features that you're talking about.  Can you list them?

Thanks for calling me a shill, though!  It really heightens our level of discourse when we call each other names.

Also, if Janfire burners were a cult, there'd be a lot more people posting here in Swedish and German


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## Sting (Jun 2, 2008)

PelletOwner said:
			
		

> I looked at the manual here: http://www.pinnaclestove.com/sheets/pb150mn.pdf
> 
> I still don't see all the safety features that you're talking about.  Can you list them?



Sure - via your provided link - page 4 - figure 2 - Item 11 "Manual Reset" and item 15 " Low Limit Safety Disk"

So I speak up because I think the webmaster has cut you enough slack on this and its time for you to relax!


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for the information, I couldn't have gleaned those safety features from that manual.  How do they work?  (Seriously.)

Can we trade insults later?


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## nchezy (Jun 2, 2008)

According to the Evergreen Heat website (Maine Traegger dealer) today's cost of their boiler is $6,950 plus $200 delivery drop charge for a total of $7,150.  And the Maine Energy Systems Boiler system cost is $8,399.  So the equipment cost differential is $1,249 (17.5%).  So to me the cost differential does not seem like such a significant issue and certainly not worth coming to bloggosphere blows over.  At this point the argument seems to be more of a Chevy vs Ford argument as far as the pellet boiler equipment choices go.  PelletOwner appears to be the only person in America with a Janfire burner system installed (and the Bosch boiler component too??).  He seems happy with the equipment and is reporting as such and now he faces the wrath of the skeptical majority.  I think his defensive (possibly overexuberant) reaction is understandable given his "one against the world frame of mind" (he probably sounds a lot like owners of Mac computers 20 years ago, but I don't think fanatical is a fair description).  I for one (as a potential Maine Energy Systems customer), am interested to hear his first hand account of this significant new pellet technology.  Please stop your petty bickering and let the guy tell his story...I want to hear more about the details that will actually matter to me such as:
 - Do you really only have to empty ash 3-4 times per year?
 - Does the long screw auger from the bulk bin into the burner work OK (any mechanical problems or jamming pellet issues?
 - Do the controls work OK? and are they simple to adjust?  (do they need to be adjusted?)
 - Have you experienced burn back and seen the "meltable tube" in action?  Did it do the job?
 - Why did you decide to get the Janfire/Bosch unit in the first place (there are other "exotic" european units available)


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## PelletOwner (Jun 2, 2008)

First and foremost, the Janfire burner is the "Janfire NH" for No Hands.  It's pretty much a set-and-forget device aside from cleaning out the ash.

Also, my boiler says Buderus on the cast metal, but also has a Bosch sticker. 
http://www.bbtna.com/StartBBTNAcom/Aboutourselves/Brandsandproducts/tabid/345/Default.aspx
I guess Buderus is a subsidiary of Bosch.

- I've emptied the ash once in late April, and I installed the system in March.  It's about time for me to empty it again, but I've also been showing it off so it's been using a bunch of pellets.
- The long screw auger works fantastically.  It cost a bundle, but the workmanship is incredible.  The auger itself is built to last for 30+ years.  The motor is working fine, but apparently it's a "service replacement part" in that it may need to be replaced within half a decade if it runs too much.
- The controls were programmed once by a technician and I was told not to mess with it if I didn't have a certification, so, no, they don't need to be adjusted, lol.  I have a thermostat.
- I haven't experienced burn back or anything of the sort, at least to my knowledge.  The burner has quite a few temperature sensors on it, so I assume that if there ever was a problem the burner took care of it before it got out of the burner's safety controls.
- I know one of the guys at MEsys, and they seemed to have a pretty good idea about what they were doing. I was initially afraid to switch, but after smelling Les Otten's house (nice 'n woody), smelling my house (kind of oily - you really notice it when you go into a non-oil-heated house), and seeing last winter's heating bill, I was convinced.  I also didn't want to deal with the hassle of filling a hopper with bags, so I got a Pellistore from Janfire as well.  The whole system itself works really well together, and I trust that the guy designing it wouldn't mess things up.

- Nobody at MEsys is going to acknowledge that my system exists, mostly because it was assembled in someone's spare time.  I also don't think my setup is 100% UL certified :|
edit: but the complete system should be, I just have some custom stuff (an inverter) since it's all european and junk.


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## Richardin52 (Jun 3, 2008)

OK, OK as Barney Fife used to say "Calm down people! " 

You know probably both boilers are good boilers.  If they weren’t we all would have heard about it by now.

I own a Pennical PB 150 and I think it’s a great, very safe boiler.   I have not seen a Janfire and I can’t say anything about one.  I can just tell anybody that’s looking that you won’t be sorry if you buy a Pinnical PB 150.

Check out the boilers, check out the price and buy the one you want.

Rich


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## webbie (Jun 3, 2008)

Owner, you may be a true believer, but you do come on quite strong for a "regular" owner.....in fact, much stronger than the manufacturers and retailers that hang out here! So while we appreciate your passion, it is good to understand that while you may 100% think you have made the best decision in the world, others may not come to the same conclusion.

If I didn't already have your word otherwise, I would certainly assume you are shilling or pimping for someone or some company.....if not, it does make one wonder why you have to continue pushing this stuff so hard. As Sting say....we can relax a bit, many more participants will be buying and installing those and other boilers, and we will hear from them in good time. Meanwhile, folks know who to go to (you) if they are considering the Janfire.

So all is well.


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## alaz (Jun 5, 2008)

I do not mean to abruptly change the direction, but I am in dire need of help.  I have not found a PB105 (harman) user over the past couple of winters and am curious about the field performance.  I am debating between the traeger, the Bosch/janfire (which logistically is difficult being that the focus has been in Maine) and the harman pb105, which is the easiest for me to get my hands on.  I would move ahead with the harman, but I had this concern I could not directly put my finger on...until recently.

I have been sitting around contemplating my inability to move ahead with the pb105 and I realize my exact concern.  This is based on my absolute lack of knowledge of boilers in general.  If anyone can please help I would appreciate it! 
Here is my question:  I have 2 zone hydro-air.  Each coil is rated for 160-180 degree water and will output approx 60k BTU at a flow rate of approx. 6-7 gallons per minute.  I have seperate circ pumps (taco 007 and 0011).  I plan on hooking the harman into the heat and letting my oil (system 2000) boiler handle my dhw.  The zones can both call simultaneoulsy, but this does not happen too often (on the coldest days more likely).  The temp. drop across the coil is approx. 23 degrees.  I want to set the harman at approx. 180 degrees, my return temp will be around 155.  Can the harman put back out 180 degrees to my coil; essentially can it handle that temp. differential?  I have a pretty well insulated house, (3600 sq. ft.).  I thought I would run the harman on manuel, I question auto ignition in the heating season.  With 2 zones I probably would have a call every 20 minutes, I thought it would be more efficient with a fire going, rather than cold starts.  If the Harman won’t do it would the traeger or pellets in general.  Any help would be appreciated, even a direction.  I do not know how to approach this. 

Thanks!


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## webbie (Jun 5, 2008)

Alaz, here is a simple truth.

It will hard to find ANY long term users of any pellet boiler because the sales of this equipment was so low....as to not even create a blip on the charts. There would be very little reason for a market to exist when oil is below $3.00 - as it has been up until this year.

As to the capacity, those technical questions are beyond my ability, but perhaps you can get an better idea by using BTU's instead of most of the details. This can be done in a number of ways:
1. Your yearly use last year - or, better yet, use between fillups in the coldest part of the year
2. A heat loss on the home
3. Knowing for what percentage of a hour your boiler ran during cold weather.

Then I would correct the Harman claimed output by 10-15% (down) to allow for various pellet types and grades.

I would think you are correct in that the unit could fire full time during the winter. I assume the low is about 2 lbs per hour, which would be maybe 12,000 BTU output.....should be easy to use that and more.


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## Mack The Knife (Oct 4, 2008)

I wanted to check with Maine Thom on what you found and decided to pursue for a pellet boiler?? Or did you go in another direction? I remember reading this thread a few months ago and actually thought the Janfire Gent was probably Otten himself. From what I read he was the only one that had the early Janfire version installed as a show piece.
More pellet boiler units are hitting the U.S. shores recently.


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