# Here we go again...



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 6, 2018)

Another nor'easter on the way here in the Northeast.

Calling for about a foot of heavy, wet, snow and windy tonight and tomorrow.  All the schools already closed for tomorrow.  Worked hard to get plenty of dry wood inside.  Will try to get plenty of rest tonight for the heavy lifting tomorrow. The snowblower sure doesn't like this wet March snow, and I never got around to putting the rubber wipers I wanted to put on last year...


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## begreen (Mar 6, 2018)

Calling for 18-24" in parts of Mass. No thanks.


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## fbelec (Mar 6, 2018)

thought i had it in the clear for heavy snow this year. went out and bought a new insurance policy against snow from the ariens company but i guess that didn't work out. i even got a grapple load early. then after this storm we are in a pattern and it looks like possible monday too


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## firefighterjake (Mar 7, 2018)

Spring snow . . . easy come, easy go. It's New England weather. 

I do feel especially bad for the folks along the coast in the Rhode Island, Massachusetts area though since I suspect some of them are still without power from last week's storm . . . or have just got their power back.


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## Knots (Mar 7, 2018)

We're getting to the tough part of winter.  I'm out of wood in the basement and will now have to walk to the garage.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 7, 2018)

12-18 forecast here.  Still hoping for a weather guesser error and 3" actual snowfall.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 8, 2018)

Knots said:


> We're getting to the tough part of winter.  I'm out of wood in the basement and will now have to walk to the garage.



I've reached the point where I am being optimistic and no longer replenishing the wood on my covered porch . . . I figure if I time it right I'll either use up all of the wood on the porch by the time I'm done burning wood or I'll have to walk to the woodshed every day for a load of wood, but there will be no snow.


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## Knots (Mar 8, 2018)

firefighterjake said:


> I've reached the point where I am being optimistic and no longer replenishing the wood on my covered porch . . . I figure if I time it right I'll either use up all of the wood on the porch by the time I'm done burning wood or I'll have to walk to the woodshed every day for a load of wood, but there will be no snow.



Yeah - I get a different attitude now than in January/February.  I just have to muddle through now and the sun will take care of everything - eventually...


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 8, 2018)

Wish we would get snow like that around here.  You'd think by living in WI one could actually own and ride a snowmobile most of the winter, but nope!  Trails were only open TWO days around here....and even at that they only had about 6" of snow.  If it's going to be cold I want SNOW dang-it.


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## Ashful (Mar 8, 2018)

EatenByLimestone said:


> 12-18 forecast here.  Still hoping for a weather guesser error and 3" actual snowfall.



We got exactly that, 14” forecast and 2” on the ground, but it was heavier than wet concrete.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 8, 2018)

Not really sure what we got.  I think the airport about 15min away got 11.  The ground was warm, so a good deal melted when it contacted pavement.  I never fired up the snowblower.  I cleared about 5" last night, and the rest this morning.


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## Dix (Mar 8, 2018)

My 25 minute commute took me 1 1/2 hours to get home.

But, It's melting


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2018)

Dix said:


> My 25 minute commute took me 1 1/2 hours to get home.
> 
> But, It's melting
> 
> View attachment 223957


That's what happens, when you fly a broom.  Strong head wind?


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## Dix (Mar 9, 2018)

Ashful said:


> That's what happens, when you fly a broom.  Strong head wind?



Yeah.... kept blowing me in circles. The Monkeys weren't thrilled either


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## Allagash350 (Mar 9, 2018)

We got around 16. Was heavy but towards evening last night when the temps dropped it was a bit lighter lol. Last one is just showing off haha.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 9, 2018)

About 10" here, but miserable, heavy, sticky stuff.  Now it's solid ice.

In two of the spots where large trees fell last week, two more trees fell during this one.

In more positive news, my seed shipment shipped, and we can start turning attention to the garden and just work on the wood stack when I need to work out some excess energy (ha!).


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

I was in the bullseye this time.   Just under 10 inches of liquid concrete... trees down everywhere, roads blocked.  70% of the town was out of power at one point.     School cancelled for 2 days now. Same in all the neighboring towns.

We lost power for 6 hours, got it back, then lost it again when a transformer blew.  Now its back.     Had a bunch of large branches down all over the yard, and had to chainsaw my way out of the driveway.   That wouldn't have been a big deal except the limb was buried in hte snowplow bank so I had to dig... cut... dig ... cut....

A fried of mine with no woodstove or genrator was about to come  borrow my generator, but just hten his power came back... and as luck would have it an hour later mine went back out again.

The thing that's really disappointing is reading the town facebook group and seeing how unprepared, clueless and inconsiderate most residents are:    People screaming mad about the power after only minutes in the dark....
People who dont know how to call the utility for info....
People who dont know to call the school district for info on school closings...
People who claim that since they have not personally seen a utility truck the utility must be lazy...
People mad that the town hasn't cut down every tree near a power line (its the utilities job  AND they DO trim, every summer)
People who expect power back on in under an hour when there are 300k out...
People wanting someone to bring them a generator... so they can turn on their cable TV 
People who say "I'm cold" on a facebook group and expect by magic someone will come to their aid.
People who dont know you can put refrigerator food in a cooler out in the snow to keep it fresh...


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## Chimney Smoke (Mar 9, 2018)

I ended up with about 16-18 inches of heavy wet snow but we lucked out with the winds being a little lighter than expected and minimal power outages.


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> People screaming mad about the power after only minutes in the dark....
> People who dont know how to call the utility for info....
> People who dont know to call the school district for info on school closings...
> People who claim that since they have not personally seen a utility truck the utility must be lazy...
> ...


I have to routinely remind my family that, for most of the history of our house, the residents had no electricity.  Or telephone.  Or plumbing.

If these many generations of past residents managed to live long and prosperous lives, in those conditions, we’ll surely be fine for a few days.  The only substantial difference is that our outhouse was torn down, long ago.


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## Knots (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> A fried of mine with no woodstove or genrator was about to come  borrow my generator, but just hten his power came back... and as luck would have it an hour later mine went back out again.
> 
> The thing that's really disappointing is reading the town facebook group and seeing how unprepared, clueless and inconsiderate most residents are:    People screaming mad about the power after only minutes in the dark....
> People who dont know how to call the utility for info....
> ...



The veneer of polite society is thin.

I moved from where I was because my neighbors were completely unprepared for anything and I was the only one with a wood stove, generator, a little extra food, etc.  Where I live now everyone around me is at _least_ as prepared as I am and there's no worries when the weather gets bad.  Even in the depths of winter I can get by for a month or so with resources on hand if need be.


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## FTG-05 (Mar 9, 2018)

Buncha a little wussies around here!

You only think you got it bad there:  Low of 36 this morning, high of 58 with the sun shining all day!

Eat your hearts out!!


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

Yeah, the level of preparedness around here is pitiful. I shudder to think what would happen if we had a true natural disaster like a CAT3 hurricane or such come though.

My neighbors sold off a barn a couple years ago and a McMansion house was put up on the lot.  No backups for anything, gas fireplace.  Owners are nice but  they only have a rink dink corded electric snowblower.  Yesterday with the power out I was out chainsawing the tree across my drive and I see them out hand shoveling their 100ft drive.  I yelled up and asked them if they want me to bring my gas blower up there to help, or if they want to come by and warm up by my stove..... just got a blank stare.

Oh well I tried....

Our police department had to  put a statement out on the town facebook group and the local cable acess channel asking people to stop calling them to ask about power.  Apparently the call volume was clogging the lines preventing people with real emergencies getting though.....and the police station itself was on generator backup. Same thing with fire.  I suspect they get realllllll tired of telling people to call Eversource.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> Yeah, the level of preparedness around here is pitiful. I shudder to think what would happen if we had a true natural disaster like a CAT3 hurricane or such come though.
> .


 I would venture to guess the vast majority of the population is unprepared for EVERYTHING. The list would include all weather related events, but also things like financial planning including retirement. I think most wood burners fall on the more prepared side of the population.


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I, but also things like financial planning including retirement.



Oh boy dont eve get me started on that...  The statistics are almost a joke, the percentage of Americans who have no savings at all, the percentage that dont even take the free money (401k matches etc) their employers offer....   The pitifully small average savings nest eggs of even households in their 50s and 60s.....  How many people think SS is a bank account 

its downright scary.

And we keep killing off pensions and nobody wants to fix SS.

Sorry about the rant.... I'm a closet Boglehead.  I know we have a few others on here too....


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## begreen (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> I was in the bullseye this time.   Just under 10 inches of liquid concrete... trees down everywhere, roads blocked.  70% of the town was out of power at one point.     School cancelled for 2 days now. Same in all the neighboring towns.
> 
> We lost power for 6 hours, got it back, then lost it again when a transformer blew.  Now its back.     Had a bunch of large branches down all over the yard, and had to chainsaw my way out of the driveway.   That wouldn't have been a big deal except the limb was buried in hte snowplow bank so I had to dig... cut... dig ... cut....
> 
> ...



Hope this is the last you see of winter for awhile. It sounds like there is an uncommon lack of common sense in your area. Are these young people complaining? Folks around here expect outages and hunker down. If a neighbor is without power and heat for an extended period of time, others with wood stoves invite them to stay over and warm up.


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> And we keep killing off pensions and nobody wants to fix SS.


Pensions should be killed, they’re nothing but a corporate time bomb, which have dragged down and killed many great American institutions.  The 401k and IRAs are both great mechanisms, giving anyone who chooses to take responsibility for themselves an excellent means to do so.

SS has become exactly what was predicted.  How could it have gone any other way?

Save for yourself, folks.  American independence works both ways.


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Pensions should be killed, they’re nothing but a corporate time bomb, which have dragged down and killed many great American institutions.  The 401k and IRAs are both great mechanisms, giving anyone who chooses to take responsibility for themselves an excellent means to do so.




Let me fix that for you.  They WOULD be great mechanisms if Americans had even the most rudimentary of financial education to know how to use them .  But they dont....    And many plans are a mess filled with horrible active  funds that underperform and have ridiculously high fees... typically because the corporate sponsor just doesn't care and with picks the cheapest (to the administrator) options or has some flunky in HR with no financial training managing the thing.

Even the guy who invented the 401k has since admitted he created a monster:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/401k-founder-my-creation-is-a-monster/


I am *lucky* in that my 401k has a bunch of Vanguard institutional class index funds with competitive fees... and I know enough to pick those and  to max it out.  The statistics say the majority of people have  garbage plans and dont use them.   Plans without mandatory enrollment have something like 50-60% enrollment rates and average deferrals are a pathetic 6%. A majority of participants dont even take the full employer match offered 

Its easy to fall into the trap of bubble thinking - since these concepts come so easy to us, and we have got so lucky in this recent bull market that everyone else should be just as successful.  But its not that simple.  Not everyone has the options we do.  In fact the majority do not.

In their heyday pensions worked because they recognized that financial planning takes expertise that the average person doesn't have, and risks are more easily  mitigated when spread over a large group (same concept as insurance).   Prime example  - to this day CALPERS is probably one of the most effective retirement vehicles in existence because of their scale and the fact they have an activist board that actually fights for the interests of their participants and negotiates low costs.

As individuals all fighting alone we have none of those advantages....


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

begreen said:


> Hope this is the last you see of winter for awhile. It sounds like there is an uncommon lack of common sense in your area. Are these young people complaining? Folks around here expect outages and hunker down. If a neighbor is without power and heat for an extended period of time, others with wood stoves invite them to stay over and warm up.



Interesting question....  I see all ages, but now that you mention it I think you are right that the loudest complainers tend to be people my age and mostly  younger... i.e 30s and early 40s with young families.   Especially the hi tech professionals that live in the big McMansion developments full of the 5000sq ft palaces.  Those types seem to be the people who never realize you can get questions answered by using a ... telephone....

Same folks who every week will come on asking "is town hall open today"


Did you think to call )$*(#$)(#*$ ?


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> Let me fix that for you.  They WOULD be great mechanisms if Americans had even the most rudimentary of financial education to know how to use them .  But they dont....  Its easy to fall into the trap of bubble thinking - since these concepts come so easy to us, and we have got so lucky in this recent bull market that everyone else should be just as successful.  But its not that simple.  Not everyone has the options we do.  In fact the majority do not.


You make some good points, but this is where you go wrong.  There is no excuse, in today’s world of free information, for any individual to not have access to educate themselves adequately in this area.  It’s just a matter of making the time and putting forth the effort to do it.  Heck, you can become a more educated investor than me with a few evenings on YouTube, chasing the right video lecture trails.  Unfortunately, too many would rather spend that time watching the Kardashians.

In an ideally capitalist environment, not everyone can rise to the top of the available opportunities, but anyone can.  That is the difference in our underlying perspectives, “everyone” versus “anyone”.

It’s all good.  We can all learn something from our differences in opinion.


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## jharkin (Mar 9, 2018)

There is a difference between "can" and "will"   We have to recognize when the real world is not the ideal world and plan accordingly. Yes there are people who abuse the system, live beyond their means,  run up irresponsible spending on credit cards.... But the financial system is designed to prey on these people and they use every psychological trick in the book to encourage this bad behavior because somebody is profiting off it.

Yes we can say its all their own fault... but that is little consolation when millions of households become impoverished retirees and then we all have to pay to pickup the pieces in the form of medicad, welfare, etc.


It also ignores all the structural advantages built in to the system that help the wealthy stay wealthy and made it hard for average folks to join those ranks.  Advantages that most people who benefit from dont even realize they are. (tax breaks, preferential credit terms, acess to better investment vehicles and cheaper financial advice, career opportunities, and so on)

  I may be more sensitive than average to this because I grew up in a blue collar household and remember my mom driving around in an old junker running on 3 cylinders and  buying bread with quarters... unplugging the phone so we wouldn't get harrased by creditors... I  worked my way into a professional class lifestyle  (I wont disingenuously claim I am  "middle class"  - because income statistics clearly say I'm not). I am acutely aware of how easy it is to fall "off the wagon" after even  a minor life disruption like a short term job loss, illness, disability - and how fast you can dig yourself into a hole that's practically impossible to dig out of even if you try your best.

  I spend a lot of time on a finance board full of (self selected community) people who make high 6 to even 7 figure incomes, and where raised in households that made just as much... so to them it seems so effortless they think anyone who doesn't have it as good....   just isnt trying. 



I imagine we will have to agree to disagree on this point, as we often do my friend.  I dont take it personal, I am not angry,  and as always I enjoy and learn from our debates... but I do have very passionate feelings on this.
Cheers.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 9, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I have to routinely remind my family that, for most of the history of our house, the residents had no electricity.  Or telephone.  Or plumbing.
> 
> If these many generations of past residents managed to live long and prosperous lives, in those conditions, we’ll surely be fine for a few days.  The only substantial difference is that our outhouse was torn down, long ago.


Our outhouse is still standing.  Don't use it for it's original purpose, now we use it as a smokehouse.

Just kidding. I do have some kindling stored in it though.


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## Ashful (Mar 9, 2018)

jharkin said:


> I may be more sensitive than average to this because I grew up in a blue collar household and remember my mom driving around in an old junker running on 3 cylinders and  buying bread with quarters...
> I imagine we will have to agree to disagree on this point, as we often do my friend.  I dont take it personal, I am not angry,  and as always I enjoy and learn from our debates... but I do have very passionate feelings on this.
> Cheers.


Definitely, which is why I never mind having these debates with you.  There are many others, where these subjects always devolve into unnecessary name-calling and accusations.  There's no need for that.

Also, our backgrounds are not as different as you might assume.



ED 3000 said:


> Our outhouse is still standing.  Don't use it for it's original purpose, now we use it as a smokehouse.
> 
> Just kidding. I do have some kindling stored in it though.


I've been toying with the idea of building one, myself.


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## Knots (Mar 10, 2018)

begreen said:


> Hope this is the last you see of winter for awhile. It sounds like there is an uncommon lack of common sense in your area. Are these young people complaining? Folks around here expect outages and hunker down. If a neighbor is without power and heat for an extended period of time, others with wood stoves invite them to stay over and warm up.



I reckon there's a mix of those prepared and those not, but those who aren't make the most noise.

It's 19F here this morning.  Supposed to get a few inches Tuesday.  I'm going snowshoeing today (lemons/lemonade).



jharkin said:


> Yeah, the level of preparedness around here is pitiful. I shudder to think what would happen if we had a true natural disaster like a CAT3 hurricane or such come though.



It's worth reading this book and asking yourself how it would play out today.  This hurricane was worse than Katrina.  They had to re-do the maps of CT, NY (L.I.), and RI after this storm.  It set off the seismographs in Alaska when it hit.  My father was 11 and living in western CT (where it wasn't as bad) and remembers it clearly and how bad it was.

It took down so many trees in New England that the government marked them and sunk them in lakes to preserve them for future use.

A friend of mine dives in a local lake here quite a bit to help mitigate the invasive weed infestation.  He found what I assume to be one of the 1938 logs last summer.


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## begreen (Mar 10, 2018)

Looks like a good read. I just ordered it through our library.


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## jharkin (Mar 11, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Also, our backgrounds are not as different as you might assume.



Oh I am sure... I'm more talking about some of the folks I spar with on bogleheads who make high 6 figure salaries in medicine or law and had parents just as well off who bought them their first house, etc.  Those types sometimes just dont realize how non-typical they are.


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## rowerwet (Mar 11, 2018)

Heavy wet snow is the worst thing for a two stage snow blower. Spray down the second stage impeller and inside of the second stage and shoot with Spray silicone, and recoat often to allow the snow blower to keep lugging through.
I bought a single stage cheapo from wallyworld for exaclty this kind of lousy wet snow, It lugs and stalls, but restarts and clears easily, Once the first pass has been made, I take it one half to one third of the width at a time to open up the driveway and sidewalks. 
Best part was finding the single stage really marked down because the plastic fairing was cracked. I don't care about plastic fairings, would rip them off if they got in the way, the snow blower works just fine, even in snow deeper than it is.

We had the same level of whining and carping about the lack of power, spoiled food, no power, no phone, no cable in the Haverhill, MA area. 
Even the mayor of Haverhill got in on the act, dumping on national Grid because they had more crews outside of the city than in it. The big problem was a transformer station in the next town that got taken out by some huge trees, so duh, more crews would be there than in Haverhill.
I can't believe nobody thought to pack their food in the snow! I have a generator, but even if I didn't, I have a power inverter that I can hook directly to batter in my car and at least power the refrigerator with the car idling.

One of the members of my church also had no power, she kept a pot of water boiling on the stove and placed buckets of hot water in each room to keep them from being freezing. (she kept the windows cracked to avoid a build up of CO)
She lives in the area with city gas and water, but even if you have none of that, most people have a gas grill and can boil snow on it, then bring the hot water into the house to keep it from freezing. 
We used the gas water heater to fill the tub during the ice storm the first year we were here, and had no firewood for the stove, it kept the house bearable until I could scrounge up some firewood the next morning.

I suggested these tips on the local Facebook page, and couldn't believe that nobody else thought of them...

So far I've gotten three trailer loads of firewod, mostly from trees down blocking the roads, same thing I did back in the October storm, the best part is, I don't have to drive around and look, just post on Facebook, and people tell me where the trees are down. Planning on heading out again tomorrow for another couple of loads.


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## rowerwet (Mar 11, 2018)

As for the SS, pension, 401k debate, I have an IRA and a 401k, I take the match from my employer, and wish all the money drained from my check each week for SS was going into my own acounts. I know exactly what is in my accounts, and what is happening with each of them. 
I know that my SS money is being pissed away, with some going to people currently collecting, some going to people who never paid in themselves, and the rest getting dumped into the US govt general fund and mostly squandered.

FDR planned on SS being a stepping stone to a better system, but as we all know, there is nothing as permanent as a temporary government program...


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## jharkin (Mar 12, 2018)

rowerwet said:


> I know that my SS money is being pissed away, with some going to people currently collecting, some going to people who never paid in themselves, and the rest getting dumped into the US govt general fund and mostly squandered.
> 
> FDR planned on SS being a stepping stone to a better system, but as we all know, there is nothing as permanent as a temporary government program...







NO, sorry, but that's* NOT *how it works.

Lots of disinformation is spewed about SS by groups that want to kill it off. And they want to kill it off because they are proposing more IRA like investing vehicles as the replacement which just put more money into the pockets of investment banks (in the form of fees and commisions).

The nice thing is that the full explanation on how it really DOES work is spelled out nicely on ssa.gov and in a wikipedia article as long a short novel - for anyone interested enough to read it.

SS is not a savings account.  Its also not a retirement "fund" or an investment.  The "retirement "portion is official SS* OASDI *  - which stands for "*O*ld *A*ge *S*urvivors and *D*isability *I*nsurance"   The insurance part is key - its meant as an insurance policy against  living so long that you outlast your savings.     It was never meant to be anyone's sole support in retirement, but rather be a backstop to prevent the specter of mass elderly living in homeless shelters after massive market crashes like the great depression.

SS functions like an inflation indexed annuity - which is an insurance product.    No matter how long you live the payments never stop, and they rise with the cost of living - so unlike savings vehicles like 401ks and IRA the income stream  can never run out (talking from in individual retirees perspective here - not a commentary on the solvency of the system).    It works somewhat like a pension, or more specifically like a SPIA annuity if you wanted to buy one privately.  It provides this "insurance against old age risk" the same way homeowners insures against fire - by pooling all of our risk together to moderate the average cost.  Some people will die young and never get what they paid in.  Others will live to 100 and get back more than they paid. A few will even live right to the actuarial table age of 80ish and get back what exactly what they put in.

The alternative is that everyone is on his/her own and then we each have to individually plan for the worst case... Which means lots of people will over save. Which drives down consumer spending.  And since consumer spending is the engine that powers the economy.. economic slowdown is the result.   the problem is far too few people think that through because the "the _gooberment is stealing my money_" soundbyte feels good to folks who want a skapegoat to blame.


So how does it work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)

Social security is a tax funded insurance plan.  Current tax receipts go to pay current benefits first, and any surplus accumulates in the trust fund. If/When the time comes that payments exceed tax revenue then they start drawing down the trust fund.  Once the trust fund depletes then benefits will have to be cut.  Today this point is estimated to be around 2036.  Contrary to right wing scare mongering the cause is not mismanagement - its demographics.  When SS was created in the 30s the average life expectancy was under 60 - so most people would only ever draw SS for 3-5 years if they got it at all.  Today that number is over 80 and people are drawing SS 15-20 years on average.  Also the ratio of workers to retirees has radically shifted, its was over 150:1 at inception and has dropped to less than 3:1 today.

This can all be addressed by program changes, just like it was in the 80s when they started taxing benefits.  We just need the  political will to adjust eligibility ages or increase the FICA tax rate.

https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/WhatAreTheTrust.htm

The other common piece of disinformation is the claim that social security taxes are "_put into the general fund and spent" _This is just plain not true.  Excess FICA tax receipts are put into the trust fund, and by law the trust fund is required to be "invested" and earn some return - but there are legal restrictions on what it can be invested in.  So its invested in special treasury bonds.   This buying of treasures makes cash available for general spending, which is the technicality used for this claim.  However the fund can redeem those treasury bills at any time to get the funds back.


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## Ashful (Mar 12, 2018)

jharkin said:


> ;
> Social security is a tax funded insurance plan.  Current tax receipts go to pay current benefits first, and any surplus accumulates in the trust fund. If/When the time comes that payments exceed tax revenue then they start drawing down the trust fund.  Once the trust fund depletes then benefits will have to be cut.  Today this point is estimated to be around 2036...
> The other common piece of disinformation is the claim that social security taxes are "_put into the general fund and spent" _This is just plain not true.  Excess FICA tax receipts are put into the trust fund, and by law the trust fund is required to be "invested" and earn some return - but there are legal restrictions on what it can be invested in.  So its invested in special treasury bonds.   This buying of treasures makes cash available for general spending, which is the technicality used for this claim.  However the fund can redeem those treasury bills at any time to get the funds back.



Excellent post, jharkin.  This is all correct, as far as I can see.  When folks talk about Social Security being “raided”, if they actually know what they are talking about, it is discussion of the usage of the money transferred from SS into those Treasury bonds.  There is (currently) a legal obligation for these to be redeemed as required, although Obama flat out stated this would cease in conjunction with the threatened 2011 government shutdown.

But to what is the money being applied in the meantime?  That is where the claims of “SS raids” hold a little (albeit, indirect) merit.

Not that I’m implying there is a better system.  It should not be left to appointed officials to invest this money in the free market, corruption would be inevitable.  Putting this election of fund distribution back into the hands of the taxpayers would defeat the purpose of having such system.  So, Treasury bonds it is.  There is still enormous opportunity for corruption in the use of those funds, but it may be as limited as can be, any time you’re talking about sharks circling a pool of $2.6 billion.


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## rowerwet (Mar 12, 2018)

"buyingof treasures makes cash available for general spending, which is the technicality used for this claim. However the fund can redeem those treasury bills at any time to get the funds back."
Do you believe in Unicorns to?
We borrow about a third of what is spent every day in DC, the moment the SS becomes a liability instead of a revenue source,  the whole ponzi scheme implodes.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 12, 2018)

Ill soon be signing up for my paltry sum SS at 62 after working for 48 years. All I can say is I'm glad I planned for retirement a long time ago by investing in income producing ventures,as I could not attempt to live on what ill collect monthly. The scary thing is so many millions will have NO other income and will have to live on social programs to survive. Perhaps for decades. Looks like the perfect storm of  Debt, low birthrates  and Baby boomer retirement up ahead.


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## begreen (Mar 12, 2018)

I thought this thread about the weather. I can't remember a time when there were 3 back to back Nor'eaters. Can anyone? Hoping that all are well prepared this time and that this is the end of winter back east.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 12, 2018)

All 3 are Duds in this area. Too far from the coast.


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## Knots (Mar 13, 2018)

It's just starting here.  The wind is picking up.  Supposed to get just shy of 2 feet.

March has always been wholly unpredictable in New England.  Sometimes it's just another February, and sometimes it is spring.  About all that can be counted on is wind.  An April fools snowstorm can never be discounted.

The blizzard of 1888 was during this week of March.  The snow didn't melt on New Haven Green until July.  It's unlikely I'll see a blizzard like that in my lifetime, but I'm prepped for it if necessary.

I'm reading about the spring of 1927 right now.  Illinois got 2 feet of rain in 3 months.  Missouri got 3 feet.  From one side of the country to the other it rained.  The Connecticut River left its banks.  The Mississippi flooded much worse than the 1993 flooding.  Major League baseball had the latest snow-out in it's history in Detroit on May 14th.  A tornado 50 feet across at the base touched down in Washington DC and uprooted trees on Rhode Island Avenue. 

The weather we're having here right now is a minor inconvenience.


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## jharkin (Mar 13, 2018)

rowerwet said:


> Do you believe in Unicorns to?
> We borrow about a third of what is spent every day in DC, the moment the SS becomes a liability instead of a revenue source,  the whole ponzi scheme implodes.




Repeating a baseless claim over and over again wont make it true.  We have been borrowing money since before you, or I or our parents, where born.   Macro economics are a LOT more complicated than your home budget, and people smarter than me with degrees in this field have explained to me that the same rules we live by just dont apply when you are the one printing hte money  

The SS system does have issues that need fixing no doubt.  And we have a fine tradition in this county of putting off a small problem until it becomes a huge one later only to deal with it just before falling off the cliff... But when the time comes when it it happens, society _will_ find the will to fix it (probably though raising taxes).

The alternative is politically unthinkable. Just turning it off would leave millions of people who already worked their entire careers counting on it left out in the cold with nothing. This country simply wont do that.  Or if it does its because things have gotten so truly bad (i.e. black swan event) we have bigger problems to deal with.



Anyway back to weather.... Things wehre looking rough here this morning but amazingly hte lights have stayed on. fingers crossed.


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## Ashful (Mar 13, 2018)

We were supposed to get two solid days of rain/snow/rain/sleet/rain/snow mix, but it ended after just 18 hours.  Not complaining.  It’s nice to miss out on the fun, for once, after the last two weeks of weather.


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## Knots (Mar 13, 2018)

Looks like we're about at the halfway point here.  Luckily the snow is fluffy and the wind isn't too bad.


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## mass_burner (Mar 13, 2018)

Knots said:


> Looks like we're about at the halfway point here.  Luckily the snow is fluffy and the wind isn't too bad.


Just got done first round snow thrower, heavy, wet 4-5 ", 12-15 to go, if talking heads right.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## Knots (Mar 14, 2018)

Still snowing a little.  With the wind it's tough to tell how much we got.  I'll say this - I may have to exit via a window since it doesn't look like I'll be able to open any of the doors...

A little bummed by the forecast that shows a return to cold temps after this is over.  There's gonna be some serious pent-up spring fever around these parts.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 14, 2018)

Knots said:


> Still snowing a little.  With the wind it's tough to tell how much we got.  I'll say this - I may have to exit via a window since it doesn't look like I'll be able to open any of the doors...
> 
> A little bummed by the forecast that shows a return to cold temps after this is over.  There's gonna be some serious pent-up spring fever around these parts.



HehHeh . . . don't tell my wife, but I'm kinda liking this last hurrah of winter as I still haven't quite got my fill of snowmobiling yet. My wife is not a fan of winter weather though so I keep telling her not to worry since snow that comes this late melts off quick . . . hopefully not too quickly though.


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## Knots (Mar 14, 2018)

firefighterjake said:


> HehHeh . . . don't tell my wife, but I'm kinda liking this last hurrah of winter as I still haven't quite got my fill of snowmobiling yet. My wife is not a fan of winter weather though so I keep telling her not to worry since snow that comes this late melts off quick . . . hopefully not too quickly though.



Yeah -  I can snowshoe to parts of my lot that are tough to get to in the summer and get some exercise at the same time.  Also trimming white pines higher than I can reach once the snow's gone.

Meanwhile I have a new ATV with 1 mile on it stashed in the shed...


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 14, 2018)

jharkin said:


> NO, sorry, but that's* NOT *how it works.
> 
> Lots of disinformation is spewed about SS by groups that want to kill it off. And they want to kill it off because they are proposing more IRA like investing vehicles as the replacement which just put more money into the pockets of investment banks (in the form of fees and commisions).



I want to kill it, because it is theft.  I can save on my own and I do not need the government to take more of my money for (supposedly) my own good.  

At 39, I'd opt out right now.


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## fbelec (Mar 15, 2018)

begreen said:


> I thought this thread about the weather. I can't remember a time when there were 3 back to back Nor'eaters. Can anyone? Hoping that all are well prepared this time and that this is the end of winter back east.



we had 3 back to back about 4 days apart in 2015 in march and they all were big. if i remember it was 2 feet then 2 feet the 3 feet. the last one was coming down so heavy that us plows could not keep up and when we went to leave the parking lots to go get a hotel room we had to plow our way to the hotel and then plow the hotel out just to get some shuteye cuz we were up for 28 to 30 hours.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2018)

sportbikerider78 said:


> At 39, I'd opt out right now.


I’m older than you, and I’d still do it, too.  But it’s probably time to drop this tangent, and get us back to the topic at hand.


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## WiscWoody (Mar 21, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Wish we would get snow like that around here.  You'd think by living in WI one could actually own and ride a snowmobile most of the winter, but nope!  Trails were only open TWO days around here....and even at that they only had about 6" of snow.  If it's going to be cold I want SNOW dang-it.


We had a good season up here in NW Wisconsin and the trails were in good shape all winter long. It’s good for the area bars and resorts as it brings in the sledders from afar.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2018)

Here we go again. 6 in and still coming down ,another day inside to finish my taxes!


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 21, 2018)

Update ! 12in and just now tapering off here in central PA.


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## Ashful (Mar 21, 2018)

Pretty bad here, too.  Very heavy stuff, probably close to a foot of it so far, and we’re forecast to have another 4 hours of it.  The chiropractors will be busy tomorrow.  

It did give me an excuse to break out the big snow blower for the first time in two years, tho.  I love that thing.  

Lots of neighbors with broken shear pins, in their homeowner-grade blowers.


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2018)

Not expecting accumulation, but the temp outside has dropped 5º in the past few hours and it's snowing outside. This is the latest I can recall seeing snow here.


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## Ashful (Mar 23, 2018)

I’m sure we’ve had snow in June, if you checked the records, but anything after April 1 is pretty exciting and rare.  I do remember one of the biggest storms of my life happened March 30-31 in 1983.  We got somewhere near 30 inches in a single day.  We’ve had three bigger, since that time, but that was the only time I remember making snowmen on April Fool’s day.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2018)

Latest snow storm ( snow staying on ground) was May 10 1988, That I can remember. Late April has  been good for a real good wallop,  1973 was a dozy.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 23, 2018)

Got 12" but 70% of it gone the next day. Snow doesnt last long this time of year.


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## Ashful (Mar 24, 2018)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Got 12" but 70% of it gone the next day. Snow doesnt last long this time of year.



This stuff came down mighty heavy and wet, so I can only imagine what it would have amounted to, if it were a few degrees colder.  As it was, I think we came out at 14 inches.

Good sledding snow, although a little deep for the runner sleds.  It was good snowman making snow and snowball fight snow, too.  Had one last long hurrah for the year, or at least that’s what I hope it was, playing in the snow with the kids on Thursday.

In a normal year, I’d have gotten a jump on spring, starting my edging and mulching a week ago.  I’d have put my pre-emergent weed block and first round of fertilizer down two weeks ago.  Right now, that’s all on hold, likely until April.


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