# Echo Saw - chain gets too tight after a minute or so...



## kruger (Sep 10, 2010)

Cutting the other day and the chain got super tight after a quick fluids refill.  Only cut for about one minute before the chain was too tight to move under engine power.  Pulled sprocket cover; cleaned; lubed/greased bar; reinstalled; checked oil level and it did it again.

Am I not getting oil flow?  Bar appears dry and chain as well, but I can't run it long enough to tell if it's getting oil or not....doesn't seem like it.  Bar and chain aren't TOO warm, but seem a little warm.

Thoughts?


----------



## Jags (Sep 10, 2010)

A little warm is pretty common.  Hold the running chain above a clean area, just a couple inches above the surface (a stump will work) and see if it visibly oils the surface after a few seconds of run time.  That will tell you if your oiler is working.  Does it consume oil?  It should run about 60-80% of the volume of gas that you are burning. (I prefer the 80% side of it).


----------



## kruger (Sep 10, 2010)

Let's assume it's not getting oil...

Is there a supply I should be looking for?  A regulator?  Something to unclog or clean?

I'm assuming the "chain tightening" is most likely due to the lack of lubrication.


----------



## Jags (Sep 10, 2010)

WYO said:
			
		

> Is there a supply I should be looking for?



There should be two tanks on your saw.  One for gas, one for bar oil.  You should have to fill the oil tank on every gas fill or at a very minimum every second fill.  Is this your practice??


----------



## smokinj (Sep 10, 2010)

WYO said:
			
		

> Cutting the other day and the chain got super tight after a quick fluids refill.  Only cut for about one minute before the chain was too tight to move under engine power.  Pulled sprocket cover; cleaned; lubed/greased bar; reinstalled; checked oil level and it did it again.
> 
> Am I not getting oil flow?  Bar appears dry and chain as well, but I can't run it long enough to tell if it's getting oil or not....doesn't seem like it.  Bar and chain aren't TOO warm, but seem a little warm.
> 
> Thoughts?




This can happen on a hot chain. Give yourself a 1/4 inch of slack on a cold chain.


----------



## kruger (Sep 10, 2010)

I appreciate you guys starting with the basics.  When I said "supply" I meant where does it feed into the bar/chain.  With all due respect, I'm aware of the oil and fuel tanks.

What I'm really asking is, how do I unclog the bar oil system?  Why will the oil tank not flow to my bar?  Is it a clog in the line or do I have a regulator (if there is one) that's gone bad.  I'm relatively well versed in the mechanics of saws, but don't have much experience with the oil delivery system.

Thanks, I appreciate your help.


----------



## oldspark (Sep 10, 2010)

Take your bar off and give it a good cleaning, there are holes where the oil goes into the bar.


----------



## Jags (Sep 10, 2010)

WYO said:
			
		

> I appreciate you guys starting with the basics.  When I said "supply" I meant where does it feed into the bar/chain.  With all due respect, I'm aware of the oil and fuel tanks.



I was HOPING that you would reply like that.  Just gotta check - ya know. ;-) 

Yep, pull the bar off. Give it a real good cleaning up and around the face of the engine.  Real good.  If it is still questionable (and I don't know echo saws, so I can pin point it for you) about where the oil port going to the bar is, start it up.  You should see oil drooling out in pretty short order.  If you don't, your pump may have an issue.  Thats gonna be a little trickier, but doable.  If you DO see the oil drooling, check your bar (and clean that real good too) for where the oil enters the bar.  It could simply be plugged up.


----------



## kruger (Sep 11, 2010)

Guys, thanks for the info.  That's what I was fishing for.  I'll check that out tomorrow and see how it looks.  Thanks for all your help.


----------



## fjord (Sep 11, 2010)

WYO said:
			
		

> Cutting the other day and the chain got super tight after a quick fluids refill.  Only cut for about one minute before the chain was too tight to move under engine power.  Pulled sprocket cover; cleaned; lubed/greased bar; reinstalled; checked oil level and it did it again.
> Am I not getting oil flow?  Bar appears dry and chain as well, but I can't run it long enough to tell if it's getting oil or not....doesn't seem like it.  Bar and chain aren't TOO warm, but seem a little warm.
> Thoughts?



Risky unprotected post. Can't be too careful 'round here with info.  :lol: Your bar and chain should be finger touch hot, not just warm. Here goes:

Which saw ? Oil is not the problem....unless there's a complete oil system breakdown. Rare except for usual clogs that should be cleaned normally after every use. So:

1. When tighening the chain are you* holding the tip of the bar up while *adjusting the chain AND while tighening the nuts ? Otherwise the chain will not adjust correctly.

2. If you have a seriously worn sprocket (there are 2 kinds), the chain will jump it and tighten. Not safe. Check the manuals, manufacturer's site, or online for pics of how a normal sprocket should look. Oregon has a good 
    free booklet on their chains, bars, sprockets. Sprocket wear is easily seen--   +/- 1/16"  or less.
    Depending on the cutting--milling, hard or softwoods, and tree sizes--I change sprockets about every 2-3 chains with a new bar. Bring the saw to a good dealer, ask if they will install a new sprocket while you watch.
    Then it's not a big deal to DIY.

Good luck.


----------



## LLigetfa (Sep 11, 2010)

If you want to see if the oiler is pumping, leave the bar off and run the engine.  Oil should bleed out the port where it normally mates to the bar.


----------



## kruger (Sep 12, 2010)

Ran the saw this afternoon and bar and chain were definitely dry.  I was using a trash chain on some light cutting to check it out.  Pulled the bar and chain and cleaned it up again.  Ran the saw without bar and chain.  The oil "port" where the oil bleeds to the bar hole was COMPLETELY DRY.  Should I crack the case and inspect the oil tank, connection, and port, or should I drain the oil and rinse with kerosene or some other solvent?  Thanks.


----------



## savageactor7 (Sep 12, 2010)

Sounds like some wood chips contaminated your oil reservoir. Empty any oil out and flush the tank out a few times with some gas. This may require some back pressure with compressed air...or maybe not. Lots of us carry an old brush and before cracking the gas or oil caps brush off the wood chips. Good luck, you need that oil flow.


----------



## kruger (Sep 12, 2010)

I usually used compressed air if I'm near my shop or wood hauler (got an air reserve on the unit) to clean off before opening the oil/gas tanks.  I'm sure over the years a chip or two has made it's way in.  Again, thanks for the advice.  I'll investigate and report.


----------



## kruger (Sep 12, 2010)

I drained the tank, flushed about four times, still no flow.  Pulled the end of the hose out of the tank, inspected filter on oil line.  Filter a little dirty; I pulled the filter off and checked flow by blowing on it and it flows fine.  I cannot blow air through the house with my mouth, no matter how hard I blow.  Is there a pump or a regulator that dictates the flow of oil from the tank???  Should I fire it up and then blow on the hose to see if it's clogged???  Thanks


----------



## fjord (Sep 12, 2010)

Must be the oil ...for sure.  :bug: 
Don't check the sprocket. And don't check that the chain is adjusted correctly. Just don't. It is an oil problem. :red:


----------



## kruger (Sep 12, 2010)

Was able to pressurize the tube inside the oil tank and get a little tiny bit of oil/gas/WD40 to come out.  That was with about 70 PSI.  I rotated the engine over by hand found "spots" where the tube would allow that tiny bit to pass and other spots where it wouldn't let anything pass.  I'm still curious what controls that flow.  I know some Stihls have a gear operated pump.  Does this ECHO?  Ready to tear the thing apart.


----------



## ROBERT F (Sep 13, 2010)

Is this the 500vl from your sig?  went to a site and viewed a blow up of the parts, and not many available for that saw.  seems to be a gear rotor pump off the output shaft, in the clutch side cover.? realy hard to tell however.  try running it with the cap off the oil tank?  get flow then?


----------



## Jags (Sep 13, 2010)

fjord said:
			
		

> Must be the oil ...for sure.  :bug:
> Don't check the sprocket. And don't check that the chain is adjusted correctly. Just don't. It is an oil problem. :red:



Fjord - your suggestion is logical and warranted, but if he is not getting oil drooling down the front of the saw WITHOUT bar/chain installed, yeah, its oil.

WYO - sounds like you may have to crack it open and see whats going on.


----------



## kruger (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah,
It's oil delivery for sure.  Kind of at an end.  I need to find someone who's familier with this Echo.  I hate to take it to a shop, because I've worked on these saws my whole life and keep them emaculate.  Apparently not enough if contamination to the oil tank is the problem!!   I have a feeling it has something to do with the pump or pump gear.  I'm just no familier with this saw's inerds and don't have a service manual.  I could just start pulling it apart...that's probably what I'll do.

Colorado---thanks for doing some leg-work for me..I appreciate it good neighbor.


----------



## fjord (Sep 13, 2010)

To all the ships at sea: 
No oil on a chain will make it hot.....very hot. It will smoke. It will steam in a cut. 
As with the basic Laws of Physics and the Laws of Thermodynamics (excuse for mentioning these ), metal usually EXPANDS with heat.
Ergo: chain will LOOSEN with heat or no oil or ....................normally for the majority of experienced chainsaw users.

Magical Thinking (Google "Child Psychiatry") will not change the Laws. It's the oil...for sure. Check the oil. Do not check the sprocket ( unmentioned ). Do not check the technique of adjusting the chain (unmentioned).

If no oil, there's something wrong with the oil system. Check the oil. Check the oil.........Please.


----------



## kruger (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the wisdom. 

At this point, I'm aware of a problem with the oil system.  The question is, what exactly IS the problem with the system?  The investigation continues....


----------



## fjord (Sep 13, 2010)

No wisdom. 
It is what is is ( William Jefferson Clinton ).

Not the chain tightening anymore ? Why is the chain "tightening" ? Just no oil ? 
Question: sprocket and clutch operating to spec ? Are you tightening the chain correctly ?

You will not discover the problem or fix here. Get the Service Manual. Troubleshoot. 
Best solution from what you're posting: bring it to a good dealer or a close, close friend who is a professional. Ask, listen, watch then do.


----------

