# Fireplace Xtraordinair thermostat location for mod



## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 15, 2012)

I have 44 Elite by Fireplace Xtraordinair.  

It really takes a roaring fire to get the built in t-stat to kick on the fan unit.  I have considered possibly installing a bypass switch but I don't want it to run after the fire dies down in the middle of the night.

I am looking to relocate t-stat to another spot that heats up quicker.  

Have any of you done this?  Heard of any typical mods?

Perhaps something can be adjusted on this T-stat?

Or replace it with a t-stat that has a lower setting...

Anyhow, do you know where I might find the existing T-stat?  Is it near the fan speed knob?

Any thoughts on this appreciated.  Thanks.


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## sticks (Jan 15, 2012)

You might check with your dealer I think they have Tstat with a lower start temp. THe summer switch would be an easy way to use the blower manually but be careful. Burning so lo low that the blower doesnt come on automatically may produce creosoteby not burning hot enough to fire off the cat.


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## Woodrow (Jan 15, 2012)

I was just looking at the installation manual for the FPX 36 Elite and it has a procedure for checking the thermocouple that switches the fan on. You remove the right front fire brick, depress the door switch and apply a propane torch to the temp sensor metal plate. Fan should kick on within 30-60 sec.  Obviously make sure a qualified tech does it for you, but it might be a quick test to make sure it's working ok before moving it.


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## FPX Dude (Jan 15, 2012)

T-stat located on the right side kinda behind the first/second bricks.  Move them apart a little bit so it's not behind the bricks and more exposed directly in the box.   My buddies hit it with a propane torch to help heat up, i don't though.   So if from a cold start and with proper kindlin i can get it to start in ~25-30mins. at most, the key is a quick hot fire, make sure lots of good small-medium wood and get it blazen, then when burn down go for your first good load!


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## scojen (Jan 15, 2012)

during a cold start, I usually place alot of kindling right in front of the right fire brick and start it from there, so that my fan kicks on sooner.


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 16, 2012)

I slid that rightmost fire brick over two inches and it has helped the fan to kick on sooner and more frequently.

Thanks for the suggestion.

However, it still seems to me that it really does not stay on nearly enough.  With the good bed of hot coals and fire burning in there, I would think the fan would stay on the whole time.

Perhaps the very cold outdoor temps are screwing with it.  It has been single digits outside the last couple days.  So perhaps that cold air blowing across the steel is cooling it too much.

I imagine I am losing a ton of heat right out the cooling vents on the outside.  Too bad they did not engineer some sort of mechanical damper on those outside air vents for days like this.  Something that automatically opens and closes depending on temperature.


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## Got Wood (Jan 16, 2012)

What fan speed are you using? I find when the temps are real cold using the fan on high speed cools the fire box down pretty fast and the fan shuts off. Running the fan on low speed seems to help provide more of a consistent output


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## Woodrow (Jan 16, 2012)

Im in the process of deciding on my own ZC fireplace. What's your experience so far with 44? I'm leaning toward the 36. One thing I'm wondering though, will this FP put out heat when the electricity is out? Curious if the FP creates heat by natural convection if the blowers off. If so it may not mean anything bad that your blower isn't coming on in really cold weather.


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 16, 2012)

GW, yes, it definitely goes on and off more frequent with the blower set to high.

Woodrow, I like the 44 especially since it can take 2' logs easily.  It throws off a lot of heat but I am finding that it does not heat as efficiently as a wood stove.  Looks a million times better though.  
It has done a great job heating our 2500 sq ft. house up until these single digit days.  Even then it burns well but it seems that the fan blower kicks on and off and at times it stays off longer than I would like.

When the fan is off, it still radiates heat and allows convection.  This just does not warm up the house in the morning as fast as when the blower is helping.  We have already used the FP during a power outage.  It did fine but I dialed down the burn rate because I did not want to risk overheating the box.


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## Treacherous (Jan 16, 2012)

How hard is it to put a bypass switch in?  I'm going to do that next year on my Lopi.  Generally the snap disk works fine but sometimes when just burning on coals and getting down in the 200-300 degree range it turns off.  I'd like to be able to bypass this and continue running.  This is mainly a shoulder season issue for me.


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 17, 2012)

It appears the bypass switch installation is a simple one.  

I just know that I will forget to shut it off at times and it will be pumping that cold outside air into the house.

Perhaps I can install some sort of timer switch like they put on bathroom exhaust fans...

I just wish I could dial down the temp sensitivity on the built in t-stat.


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## Woodrow (Jan 17, 2012)

What about the blower fan variable speed knob at the lower right of the unit? Can't you dial this down so that a lower flow rate is adjusted and it doesn't cool the box off too rapidly? That way it would tend to stay on and deliver a gentler flow of constant heat instead of clicking on full blast, over cooling the box and then switching off for extensive periods of time until it reheated again. Unless it doesn't work like that and I'm misunderstanding the function of the blower switch knob?


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 17, 2012)

When it is very cold outside, it will kick on and off regardless of the reostat speed control setting.  It does run longer intervals with it set to low, but again, I need more air flowing through it.  The firebox is plenty hot and the blowing air is warm when it shuts off.  It isn't as if the air is cool when the t-stat shut it off.  I think the manufacturer could have fine tuned the t-stat setting better than it did.  I might see if I can wire in an additional lower setting T-stat in parallel with it.  

I thought maybe, others here experienced the same problem and solved it somehow.


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## Treacherous (Jan 17, 2012)

Fahrenheit451 said:
			
		

> When it is very cold outside, it will kick on and off regardless of the reostat speed control setting.  It does run longer intervals with it set to low, but again, I need more air flowing through it.  The firebox is plenty hot and the blowing air is warm when it shuts off.  It isn't as if the air is cool when the t-stat shut it off.  I think the manufacturer could have fine tuned the t-stat setting better than it did.  I might see if I can wire in an additional lower setting T-stat in parallel with it.
> 
> I thought maybe, others here experienced the same problem and solved it somehow.



It would be nice if there was a manual "ON" setting that worked regardless of temp.


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## Jacklake2003 (Jan 17, 2012)

One possible solution is changing out the t-stat for one of a lower temp. I saw one today on Amazon.com for $7!


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## Treacherous (Jan 17, 2012)

Maybe this one?


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## Woodrow (Jan 17, 2012)

Hmm. It could be that the thermocouple simply isn't properly connected to the metal firebox housing or there's a problem elsewhere in the system causing it to improperly cycle. I'd definitely call the manufacturer and see what troubleshooting tips they can suggest before making other mods. Might be a simple fix and if the unit is still under warranty they may cover it too. Please let us know the outcome because I'm thinking strongly about buying one of these units like you did.


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## Treacherous (Jan 17, 2012)

Woodrow said:
			
		

> Hmm. It could be that the thermocouple simply isn't properly connected to the metal firebox housing or there's a problem elsewhere in the system causing it to improperly cycle. I'd definitely call the manufacturer and see what troubleshooting tips they can suggest before making other mods. Might be a simple fix and if the unit is still under warranty they may cover it too. Please let us know the outcome because I'm thinking strongly about buying one of these units like you did.



Definitely something to check..  make sure snap disk is directly touching and not attached at an angle.


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## Woodrow (Jan 17, 2012)

Another thought: why don't these fireplaces have the option to switch the air that is used for the heat transfer air (not for combustion) to be switched from outside air (cold) to inside air (warm) that is recirculated from the heated air inside the house? Automobile heaters have this option because it improves the performance of heaters when it's really cold outside. I can see where this same feature might help with the OP's problem by raising the temp of the cooling air, keeping the switch at a higher temp (making it come on more often) and enhancing the heat output of the fireplace - especially when it's really cold out when you need it most.


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## Got Wood (Jan 17, 2012)

Woodrow said:
			
		

> Im in the process of deciding on my own ZC fireplace. What's your experience so far with 44? I'm leaning toward the 36. One thing I'm wondering though, will this FP put out heat when the electricity is out? Curious if the FP creates heat by natural convection if the blowers off. If so it may not mean anything bad that your blower isn't coming on in really cold weather.



IMHO - any fireplace will give off some radiant heat but no where near the amount needed to heat a room or house. The blower is essential. We did have an extended power outage here after the Oct freak snow storm. I ran the FPX and it certainly helped - albiet the temps were above freezing. Certainly was better than nothing as our house was significantly warmer than others here. 
A free standing wood stove is a better solution for heating during a power outage (if thats your criteria)

I love my FPX. It looks awesome and cranks out the heat.


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## Trail_Time (Jan 18, 2012)

Welcome to the Hearth.  I had the same problem.... its an easy fix.  Remove the temp sensor, wrap the back with some insulation and use foil tape to hold it in place.  Reinstall and you will be surprised at the difference.


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## Trail_Time (Jan 18, 2012)

Fahrenheit451 said:
			
		

> I slid that rightmost fire brick over two inches and it has helped the fan to kick on sooner and more frequently.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.
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The cooling vents let air in, not out.  They are what makes the unit zero clearance.  They cool the box and the chimney...so you would not want to block them off or risk possible fire. They do seem to draw more air than necessary.  When my unit was first installed I ran it prior to installing facing/stone and was very much amazed at how cold the box actually got.  The stronger the fire the more it pulled air in and the colder the box was.  At times it was nearly the same as the outside air temp.  The cooling intake vents use convection and have no direct relation to the blower.

The blower is what is drawing the air into the area where the temp sensor is located.  Add the insulation it will be a big improvement.  Not sure if you have the ability to relocate the blower, in very cold climates outside air is not recommended.  Is a basement intake a possibility?


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## Stax (Jan 18, 2012)

Declaration here.  What kinda of burn times are you guys getting with the FPX?  I usually get 4-5 and would like to improve on this.  My blower takes anywhere from 25-45 minutes, but will stay on well after the fire and beyond coals.  I wouldn't worry about cooling here as coals don't produce creosote.  That's what folks have said here.  t talked with Travis and they informed me that the snap disk on my unit (maybe same on urs) needs to reach 120 degrees to kick on.  It also seems that my draft is too great and I'm considering plugging two of the 5 air inlets in my doghouse.


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## Trail_Time (Jan 18, 2012)

Stax said:
			
		

> Declaration here.  What kinda of burn times are you guys getting with the FPX?  I usually get 4-5 and would like to improve on this.  My blower takes anywhere from 25-45 minutes, but will stay on well after the fire and beyond coals.  I wouldn't worry about cooling here as coals don't produce creosote.  That's what folks have said here.  t talked with Travis and they informed me that the snap disk on my unit (maybe same on urs) needs to reach 120 degrees to kick on.  It also seems that my draft is too great and I'm considering plugging two of the 5 air inlets in my doghouse.



Realistically I reload every 3 hours for max heat output.  Disclaimer: My wood is split on the small side and is very well seasoned.  I have increased the average split size for 12/13 and 13/14 so I'll be interested to see how much difference it makes.


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail Time, thanks for the reply.  How do you get access to the t-stat?  Do you have to unscrew the vented face cover that surrounds the entire face of the FPX?  

Stax, I have been getting similar burn times.  If I really stack it good with large logs at night, let them get going, then shut down the vent, in the morning will have a nice bed of calls still glowing hot.  So I suppose 6 hours is about the norm.


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## Woodrow (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm surprised by such seemingly short burn times with such large fireboxes, especially considering the 36 and 44 Elites are catalytic units. I thought the whole advantage of a cat is that you can choke the firebox down (restrict airflow) and let the logs simmer at a slow burn rate while the cat incinerates the smoke and simultaneously generates more heat?? Isn't that basically how the Blaze King King achieves its legendary burn times? I know this is an insert instead of standalone stove, but I don't understand why roughly comparable burn times (~10 hours) aren't possible.


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## Fahrenheit451 (Jan 20, 2012)

Last night I got 8 hours with a good hot bed of coals but that was because. I put the effort into getting the fire just right before shutting down the vent.  Many nights I am probably too tired to wait for the logs to catch a good flame before shutting it down so I tend to leave the vent open more than normal.  Mind you I have been trying to burn hotter fire due to the tstat giving me fits.  I think burn times will consistantly increase after I resolve this issue.


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## webby3650 (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

> Fahrenheit451 said:
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Did you put a "p" trap in the vents? The manual recommend this in cold climates. I just wondered if this would make a noticeable difference.


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## Got Wood (Jan 20, 2012)

My experience with burn times.... I usually reload at about the 3 hour mark with variation depending on coal bed, size of splits I loaded up with and wood type. For over night, I plan to get a real good coal bed then load up a large load with larger splits when I'm ready to turn in for the night (usually 10-11 pm). I get it going good with secondaries kicking in. Shut the air down to around 25% open (I use the seem between the doors as a guide to where I put the air lever...put the left side of the lever a little right of the crack which is about 25% closed) and put the fan in lowest position. Doing this I will have enough coals in the morning (6-7am) to restart w/o a match.
I have experimented with shutting the air down further but it seems to really choke out the fire, temps drop and causes glass to blacken. (BTW - all my wood is 2 years c/s/s this year so it isnt a wood seasoning issue).


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## Woodrow (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. After reading about the all mighty Blaze Kings, it looks like the "secret" to their long burn times is that they have an automatic, thermostatically controlled air inlet system. This automatic system constantly accommodates changes in oxygen demand as the fire burns down. In contrast, I guess with nearly all other stoves and fireplaces (including the Elites) you're stuck with manual air control only (other than a thermoswitch for the blower fan). And since there's a fine line between choking the fire out and burning too hot after you've stuffed the unit at night right before turning in, the air setting stays too high after the fire starts to burn down. This causes it to burn the remaining wood too fast. If its air inlet adjusted to the size of the fire as it changed, burn times could be greatly increased.

What I don't understand is why isn't the thermostatically controlled air inlet system used on many other stoves and high efficiency fireplaces? (instead of just BK's) It's such an obvious asset to the unit's functioning, and it doesn't appear terribly complicated or expensive. The Elites are high quality inserts and they're very beautiful too. I sure wish they could implement this feature so their biggest Achilles heel could be remedied.


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## Trail_Time (Jan 20, 2012)

Fahrenheit451 said:
			
		

> Trail Time, thanks for the reply.  How do you get access to the t-stat?  Do you have to unscrew the vented face cover that surrounds the entire face of the FPX?
> 
> Stax, I have been getting similar burn times.  If I really stack it good with large logs at night, let them get going, then shut down the vent, in the morning will have a nice bed of calls still glowing hot.  So I suppose 6 hours is about the norm.



No need to remove the faceplate.  Remove the right front firebricks on the side.  It is behind one of them, can't remember if first or second one.  The plate unbolts and you can pull the sensor plate out.  Add the insulation you will like the improvement.


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## Trail_Time (Jan 20, 2012)

Got Wood said:
			
		

> My experience with burn times.... I usually reload at about the 3 hour mark with variation depending on coal bed, size of splits I loaded up with and wood type. For over night, I plan to get a real good coal bed then load up a large load with larger splits when I'm ready to turn in for the night (usually 10-11 pm). I get it going good with secondaries kicking in. Shut the air down to around 25% open (I use the seem between the doors as a guide to where I put the air lever...put the left side of the lever a little right of the crack which is about 25% closed) and put the fan in lowest position. Doing this I will have enough coals in the morning (6-7am) to restart w/o a match.
> I have experimented with shutting the air down further but it seems to really choke out the fire, temps drop and causes glass to blacken. (BTW - all my wood is 2 years c/s/s this year so it isnt a wood seasoning issue).



Same for me.  Good explanation of where to set the air (25%) any less, or too closing too soon and I get black glass.  I allow the wood to get good and charred before closing it down.  I think this process has a negative effect on the overall burn time.

Not really an issue for me as I have plenty of wood to burn, and the FPX was chosen for aesthetics, heat output and clean burn.  All of which it has delivered.


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## Got Wood (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

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## Got Wood (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail time - do you have a bigger picture of your fireplace? It looks real nice.

Here is a bigger one of mine....


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## Trail_Time (Jan 20, 2012)

I like your mantle, What kind of wood?


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## Trail_Time (Jan 20, 2012)

Here is a better pic of mine.


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## Got Wood (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

> I like your mantle, What kind of wood?



Walnut. We did all the hearth work ourselves. The mantel was a rough piece of walnut that we had cut to size. Then stripped the bark off the "face", hand sanded, the ploy'd.


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## Got Wood (Jan 20, 2012)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

> Here is a better pic of mine.



That is stunning! WOW


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## Trail_Time (Jan 20, 2012)

Got Wood said:
			
		

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Very nice it goes perfectly with the rest of your decor.  I was going to have a piece of walnut or hickory from our property cut for a mantle, but when I found this old barn beam it was a no brainer.  Old, distressed.....exactly what we wanted. I could not have added the character of a hundred or so years of service.  And thanks for the compliment.


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## maverick06 (Jan 21, 2012)

my FPX took forever to turn on.... so I just bypassed the snap disk and control the blower with a switch. Its great now, I turn it on when want it, I no longer need to wait 2 hours for it to turn on.


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## Woodrow (Jan 21, 2012)

I visited the showroom again yesterday to take a closer look at the FPX Elite 36. It's a really nice unit, and I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on it. But I was concerned by the sliding air valve located at the top of the arch. It seemed very imprecise and rattled around in its sliding track. It wasn't intuitive which way it moved to control airflow and it seemed to have a very limited range of motion. And again, it was very "rattley." Also, I could see the holes inside the lever's track area that the valve uncovered or covered. I assume the way it works is that there is compressed, preheated air coming from the blower channeled through the tube that has the holes? And by covering the holes with the sliding valve it forces more of the air into the firebox making it burn hotter? And by sliding the valve away from the holes, it opens them up and allows the compressed air inside the tube to bleed out into the ambient room instead of into the firebox? (and makes the fire burn slower) Is that right? I'm a little confused about how it all works. Also, from what I could see it was not possible to completely cover the holes. And even if you could, I assume the tube with the holes is vented to the blower. Even if the blower is turned off wont air still be able to get into the firebox? From what I could see it didn't look possible to definitively cut the air supply off to the firebox if desired. Based on what I've read here, in the event of a runaway fire or a chimney fire (which no one plans for), you want to choke the air supply off to as close to zero as possible to quickly get it under control. So I'm wondering with the Elite's air control system if it's possible to choke the fire down to zero (or very close to it) if need be.


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## FPX Dude (Jan 21, 2012)

Yup, that's how it works...not much movement in the slider either, maybe 1" East-West.  I dunno if it's possible to choke it down completely to zero if an over fire either.  I know if I shut it ALL the way to right say for an over nite burn, I'll have blackened window in AM.  Once it's up and running, I usually set it to cruise mode by feeling what feels like to set it 1/16" open, so just barely, then I don't touch it.


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