# Austroflamm Integra still no go



## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

My insert still doesn't work.  I have cleaned everything.  The auger safety switch is stuck in the closed position so it is working, although not safe.  I removed the auger motor and it turns.  I removed the auger and replaced the lower bushing.  Put it all back together and poured in some pellets.  I watched the auger motor turn for a couple of minutes, then it stops.  I know the auger is not stuck.  I know it's not the motor.  I know it's not the auger.  I know it's not the auger bushing.  The combustion motor is blowing air.  The convection motor runs.  It just does not feed the pellets into the burn pot.  It's like the computer says to not turn the auger.  It's Saturday, and I'm hoping someone has some words of wisdom.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

when the auger fail, does it have power at the motor? if so, how much? you have to find out where the power stops.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

Does the stove dump pellets into the burn pot before it stops turning?

Does the stove light the pellets in the burn pot?

If it does both of these then it is time to check the proof of fire system, failure of the stove to sense it has a fire will shut the stove down.

If the vacuum system doesn't sense somewhat of a proper vacuum the stove will also shut down.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Does the stove dump pellets into the burn pot before it stops turning?


No, the auger was completely empty and so I expected it would take some time to get pellets into the burn pot.  I poured a handful of pellets into the burn pot to prime the system. I expected the auger motor to start dropping pellets into the burn pot, but it stopped turning before any pellets made it to the top. 



SmokeyTheBear said:


> Does the stove light the pellets in the burn pot?


  Yes the pellets that I threw into the burn pot were lit by the stove.  I also opened the door quickly and put a second handful of pellets into the burn pot to keep it going as I waited for the 1st pellet to drop, which never happened.



SmokeyTheBear said:


> If it does both of these then it is time to check the proof of fire system, failure of the stove to sense it has a fire will shut the stove down.
> 
> If the vacuum system doesn't sense somewhat of a proper vacuum the stove will also shut down.


 

My stove takes about 21 minutes to fire up.  The combustor motor started blowing air when I turned it on.  The convection motor fired up at the completion of the start up cycle.  Then it started shutting down because the pellets had gone out by this time.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

Here is a copy of the technical manual.   Sorry the system won't allow me to upload it due to its size. 




It sounds like the stove's low temperature limit switch is bad or dirty, it should be located somewhere in the exhaust system at or just after the combustion blower.  It is also possible the connection is loose.  Depending upon the eprom in the stove there are a couple of different times in the start up that that switch is tested, if it hasn't closed by those times the stove will shutdown.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

what happens if you press the reset when it stops working?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Here is a copy of the technical manual.   Sorry the system won't allow me to upload it due to its size.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like the stove's low temperature limit switch is bad or dirty, it should be located somewhere in the exhaust system at or just after the combustion blower.  It is also possible the connection is loose.  Depending upon the eprom in the stove there are a couple of different times in the start up that that switch is tested, if it hasn't closed by those times the stove will shutdown.


Is the low temperature testable?  Is it an normally open or normally closed switch. I was told somewhere to clean it, so I took a wet paper towel and wiped the soot off it.  I can easily remove it, but how do I test it?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> what happens if you press the reset when it stops working?


 
To be honest, I don't know where the reset button is.  Enlighten me some more please.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

feed button? start button?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> Is the low temperature testable?  Is it an normally open or normally closed switch. I was told somewhere to clean it, so I took a wet paper towel and wiped the soot off it.  I can easily remove it, but how do I test it?


 
OK, I removed the low limit switch and it looks fine.  I googled it and found it is a normally open switch that closes at 120 degrees.  I put an ohm meter on it and it is open.  Took hair dryer to it and it closed.  I can't say at 120 degrees, but didn't take long.  I then put my thumb on the SS tip and it cooled down, and the switch opened.  So in my opinion, it probably is ok.  Any thing else I should check?


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## Mark_ms (Dec 7, 2013)

There is no reset button.
Have you checked your air sensor for dirt and crud on it?
The manual say if combustion motor and convection fan turn on but auger starts only briefly and then shuts down  check air sensor.
To test unplug stove remove low limit switch wires and join together plug in stove both comb and convection will start, then turn on auger on control panel, if auger starts then stops the air sensor may be at fault.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> feed button? start button?


 
My stove, once you push the "on" button, it goes through an automatic start procedure that takes about 21 minutes. 
It went through the whole procedure, but the auger wasn't feeding any pellets into the burn pot.  I was opening the door and putting a hand full of pellets into the burn pot to keep it going but it was useless as the auger never got going enough to keep it going.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

what happens if you push the on button? will the auger start again?


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## Mark_ms (Dec 7, 2013)

I did not see a link in Smokies post, so here is the Integra Technical Manual


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

Mark_ms said:


> There is no reset button.
> Have you checked your air sensor for dirt and crud on it?/quote] Not yet, but will do that next when I reinstall the low limit switch.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

Just pulled the air sensor, and it had a small amount of dust on the leading edge, but was not really dirty.  I cleaned and reinstalled it.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> Just pulled the air sensor, and it had a small amount of dust on the leading edge, but was not really dirty.  I cleaned and reinstalled it.


can you ohm it?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

About the only switch not pulled is the high temp switch.  My back is sore, my eyes are blury, and my wine is attracting fruit flies.  I'll get back tomorrow.  Mark thanks for everything so far.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> can you ohm it?


 
The air sensor is an integrated circuit so it's not something I could check. I plan to pull the high temp switch tomorrow.  Do you know the open/close temperature for a high temp switch?


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> The air sensor is an integrated circuit so it's not something I could check. I plan to pull the high temp switch tomorrow.  Do you know the open/close temperature for a high temp switch?


doesn't it work from temperature readings?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

Mark_ms said:


> I did not see a link in Smokies post, so here is the Integra Technical Manual



I tried to upload the manual as part of the post but it was too big I noted that in the post.


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## Mark_ms (Dec 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I tried to upload the manual as part of the post but it was too big I noted that in the post.


Just trying to help


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 7, 2013)

Frank, it would be helpful to know if this is an Integra v.1 (with the dial temp setting) or the newer v.2 with a digital controller board.  There is no vacuum sensor on the V1 model, and I'm pretty sure there isn't one on the newer model, so Smokey's advice is a bit off base on that account.

Let's start with basics.  Are you sure there isn't a blockage in the chute?  Try sticking a wire coat hanger up there and wiggle it around a bit to see if anything is stuck.   If nothing comes down, we can at least rule that out.  It also sounds like it might be possible you just didn't wait long enough or had enough pellets in the auger to get all the way to the top, and the stove cooled and shut down before they got to the burn pot.  This motor runs pretty slowly.

How full is your hopper?  It might be helpful if you empty the hopper enough to confirm visually that the auger is turning from inside and that it's picking up the pellets.  You might have the collar set screw incorrectly positioned on the shaft, and the motor is spinning on the shaft, but not turning the auger, or just barely enough without a load to spin, but not enough under torque to move pellets properly.  Be sure you're hitting the flat spot on the auger screw. If you have a clear chute and you have confirmed the hopper is turning, remove the leads from the auger motor and power the motor directly.  Let it run a while.  It takes a bit of time for the auger to get loaded up with pellets and convey them to the top of the chute.

Check the Auger and Combustion Fan potentiometer settings.  Presuming you have a V1 Integra, there is a hole in the face of the user board allowing access to the combustion fan, the pot on the rear of that board is for the auger.  Factory settings are at 12:00 (straight up and down).  Using a very small blade electronics or eyeglass screwdriver, set them to vertical.

Let us know if any of this is helping.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> doesn't it work from temperature readings?



It processes the probe data and really isn't just a temperature sensor and sticking an ohm meter on an IC for which you don't have the specifications for can damage it.

If the auger is turning then the pellets should be slowly getting up to the drop chute unless something is preventing that, and after several attempts the auger should get loaded.  If the motor is running but the auger doesn't turn then the pellets aren't going to go anywhere.

Opening the door and putting additional pellets in also might cause the air sensor to shut the stove or the auger off as long as the door is open.

That air sensor does need to be clean and properly seated in order for the stove to work.

The manual gives the startup sequence in fairly good detail.

Make sure that the auger motor and the auger are actually attached to each other sometimes couplings are loose and the auger doesn't always turn in step with the motor.  It is also possible that the auger motor is stalling.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

RKBAGUY said:


> Frank, it would be helpful to know if this is an Integra v.1 (with the dial temp setting) or the newer v.2 with a digital controller board.  There is no vacuum sensor on the V1 model, and I'm pretty sure there isn't one on the newer model, so Smokey's advice is a bit off base on that account.
> 
> Let's start with basics.  Are you sure there isn't a blockage in the chute?  Try sticking a wire coat hanger up there and wiggle it around a bit to see if anything is stuck.   If nothing comes down, we can at least rule that out.  It also sounds like it might be possible you just didn't wait long enough or had enough pellets in the auger to get all the way to the top, and the stove cooled and shut down before they got to the burn pot.  This motor runs pretty slowly.
> 
> ...




Actually there is a vacuum (air pressure sensor in that stove), it is part of the function of the air sensor.


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Actually there is a vacuum (air pressure sensor in that stove), it is part of the function of the air sensor.


I suppose you could look at it that way, but it's not a true vacuum system in the vein of what most users would expect, so I think it's important to differentiate. We don't want to send this guy on a wild goose chase looking for vacuum lines and diaphragm type pressure switches that aren't there on this model. 

Just sayin'. This stuff can be confusing. Sure was for me when I got started.


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## Jeff Lawson (Dec 7, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Actually there is a vacuum (air pressure sensor in that stove), it is part of the function of the air sensor.


The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density.  I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air.  But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.

It is a pretty fancy little piece of circuitry all on it's own.  But to answer almartion, I do recall that it somehow uses temperature across two different sensors to measure air speed.

I agree with the others, you need to actually see the screw turn.  It could just be making that familiar noise leading you to believe it is moving pellets.  If it is...I would power it up until the auger stops, and then repeat until the screw is primed up...and then begin your start up process.  And troubleshoot from there.

Do get some more model information posted though.  You say you push a button...I press a switch on my older 1992 model.  So I'm kind of thinking you have one of the newer Integras with push button user control boards.


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 7, 2013)

Jeff Lawson said:


> The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density.  I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air.  But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.


Bingo. What he said.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 7, 2013)

Jeff Lawson said:


> The Austroflamm air sensor measures speed, temperature, humidity, and density.  I believe the stove circuitry is designed such that it assumes if there is air flow on the negative side of the combustion motor, then there must be vacuum or negative air.  But I don't think the sensor itself actually measures vacuum or negative air pressure.
> 
> It is a pretty fancy little piece of circuitry all on it's own.  But to answer almartion, I do recall that it somehow uses temperature across two different sensors to measure air speed.
> 
> ...



Temperature, speed, density, and air flow is a back door method of measuring pressure in the system.

In short that air sensor is also a "vacuum" switch.


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## Mt Bob (Dec 8, 2013)

Hi,again.You should tell people it is a version 2,v2,will help out.Your stove has a highly complex computer.The v1 stoves do not.90% of the v2 diagnostics are useless to you.Some things you may be able to try,as I do not know your abilitys.1 run auger motor(hopper loaded)directly off 120 volts for several minutes(carefuly).2 make sure your programming on crontrol panel is in manual mode,follow manual.If this is above you call your buddy that works on cars and feed him some beers.Also,14 year olds are great at programming things,not like us old guys.I always seem to need help with a new cell phone!P.S. you do not have a vacuum switch.Your stove uses a thin film mass air flow sensor,very trouble free except for dirt.95% of vehicles run them.Good luck.Bob


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 8, 2013)

I have the integra II with a digital control panel.  Bought new in 2006. Got up this morning and removed the high temp switch, and it is normally closed, meaning I had continuity across the contacts.  Laid it on electric burner of my stove, and turned on.  Switch opened up which is what it's supposed to do.  I don't know at what temp it opened, but it is working.  Put it back into stove.  Turned on again, and auger motor is not turning.  Shut it off again and am going to go watch the Red skins beat Kansas City.  Will deal with this tomorrow. 

Believe tomorrow I will hook the auger motor up directly to 115v to see if it feeds the pellets.  When I had it removed and on my bench, it worked fine and I tried to hold the flat from turning with my hand and was not able to stop it.  So I assumed the motor was good. In order for me to do that, I have to become a monkey again to get to it.  It is an insert if I had not said yet.  Go skins.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 8, 2013)

Well the Skins lost big time to the Chiefs.

Tomorrow I will load test the auger motor to see if it can feed pellets into the fire pot. To do this, I have to reach in and disconnect the two wires and then hook up my AC cord to the motor, then plug in.  It is works, it will feed pellets to the top of the ramp and into the fire pot. 

If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.


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## Mt Bob (Dec 8, 2013)

Reccomend call stacey at lucky distributing.


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## Jeff Lawson (Dec 8, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.


Fire it up.  See what it does then.  That will be some good diagnostic info.


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## altmartion (Dec 8, 2013)

ma


Frank Nuhfer said:


> Well the Skins lost big time to the Chiefs.
> 
> Tomorrow I will load test the auger motor to see if it can feed pellets into the fire pot. To do this, I have to reach in and disconnect the two wires and then hook up my AC cord to the motor, then plug in.  It is works, it will feed pellets to the top of the ramp and into the fire pot.
> 
> If it does, then I'm not sure what to do next.


maybe you should take an amp draw. this will tell you if the motor is "loading" too much.


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## Mark_ms (Dec 8, 2013)

I didn't realize that this was an Integra 2.

In another thread you asked about connections as in what goes where..are you sure you ave them connected correctly?
How is your door gasket, you may have a leak or a gap. Test with a dollar bill open door and place bill inbetween door and stove, close the door and then pull on the bill if it comes out easy you need to replace gasket or maybe adjust your door. there should  fair amount of resistance when pulling the bill.
Is there a ground from the auger and it is tight.


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## Flammam (Dec 8, 2013)

Sounds to me like you air sensor is shot. The explanation of how it functions give by Jeff is right on. There are two separate circuits on the board one is a reference circuit and the other is the actual sensing element. One thing to check is your door gaskets. If you draw in air anywhere besides the inlet tube it will throw off the air sensor, possibly enough to shut the stove down.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 8, 2013)

I'm not going to read the manual to find out if the high limit is auto reset or manual.

If it is manual then when you heated it up and caused it to open it may need to be reset.  The usual reset is via a red plastic like button, that must be pressed in so that it latches, you should l be able to feel or hear that happen, continuing to press in after it latches will cause it to pop back out.

If it is automatic then when it cools off enough it will reset.

It must reset after being opened for the auger circuit to operate.

Flammam is probably correct in the air sensor being shot if the auger is properly coupled to its motor and your high limit is closed.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 9, 2013)

altmartion said:


> ma
> 
> maybe you should take an amp draw. this will tell you if the motor is "loading" too much.


 
How would you do an amp draw?  I don't have a amp-meter gauge and wouldn't it have to be inserted in series with the motor.  Remember this is an insert, stuck half way in and half way out on my mantle, leaving very little room.  I can either see it but not get to it, or if I can turn it enough to get to it, I can't see what I'm doing.  I forced my head between the opening of the fireplace and stove, and hurt my colarbone.  Now it's so sensitive, I won't be doing that anytime soon.  I have had the auger motor out, and plugged it into an extension cord with two clips on the end.  The motor worked good, I couldn't stop it with my fingers holding it.  My proposed test is to disconnect the motor electrically, connect it to my extension cord, and then plug it into 110V.  If the motor turns and starts feeding the burn pot, then I know that under actual load, it works.  If it stops or whatever, then I will order a new motor.  I will do this w/o the stove plugged in.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 9, 2013)

Mark_ms said:


> I didn't realize that this was an Integra 2.
> In another thread you asked about connections as in what goes where..are you sure you ave them connected correctly?


 
The guy who told me where to plug in the digital controller cable took a picture of his unit, and it looked exactly like mine, including the color. Everything seems to be executing like it should, meaning it turns on, the digital display ST and the number of minutes starts counting down, the combustion motor starts turning, the auger motor starts turning, the pellets I put into the burn pot start to smoke and then light up, then the auger motor stops turning (NOT Normal). The countdown continues and when it should be switching from start to run, it pops the error message and starts the shut down procedure. So I think it is hooked up electrically correct.



Mark_ms said:


> How is your door gasket, you may have a leak or a gap. Test with a dollar bill open door and place bill inbetween door and stove, close the door and then pull on the bill if it comes out easy you need to replace gasket or maybe adjust your door. there should  fair amount of resistance when pulling the bill.


 
I did this just now along the top, front and bottom of the door in several places and it held it tight.



Mark_ms said:


> Is there a ground from the auger and it is tight.


 
The auger motor has several wires coming out of the motor, but they go into some shrink tube and out of that are only two wires coming out of it.  I don't know what is under the shrink tube, someone suggested a capacitor, but I didn't cut it open to check.  So only two wires come out and they just plug into two female wires connectors.  I made my extension cord to check the motor as I thought at first it was defective, but when the motor sits in my hand and I try to stop it, it is very strong.  That's why I ruled out the motor.  My plan is to twist the stove enough to get into the motor connectors, unhook them, hook up my extension cord, and plug it in.  The stove will not be plugged in when I do this, so it is only testing whether the auger motor will turn the auger with pellets under actual load conditions.  It should run until I unplug it.  I plan to catch the pellets as then fall into the burn pot and reuse them.  I am thinking to run it at least 3-4 minutes as a good test.  The auger is supposed to turn 1 revolution per minute, but when I had it out under no-load conditions, it took about 45 seconds to make a 360 degree turn, so I am guessing that a full 110 volts makes it turn faster than 1 rpm and the stove probably puts something less than 110V depending on my feed setting.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 9, 2013)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I'm not going to read the manual to find out if the high limit is auto reset or manual.
> 
> If it is manual then when you heated it up and caused it to open it may need to be reset.  The usual reset is via a red plastic like button, that must be pressed in so that it latches, you should l be able to feel or hear that happen, continuing to press in after it latches will cause it to pop back out.
> 
> ...


 
I tested the high limit switch by removing it from the stove, hooking up my ohm meter to it, and placing the switch on my electric stove.  It read zero ohms and when it got hot, it opened up to infinite ohms.  So only the switch was checked, not inside the stove.  I might add that it sits against the metal and if the metal gets too hot, it will open the high limit switch and stops the auger motor.  So the auger motor is in series with the auger motor.


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## altmartion (Dec 9, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> How would you do an amp draw?  I don't have a amp-meter gauge and wouldn't it have to be inserted in series with the motor.  Remember this is an insert, stuck half way in and half way out on my mantle, leaving very little room.  I can either see it but not get to it, or if I can turn it enough to get to it, I can't see what I'm doing.  I forced my head between the opening of the fireplace and stove, and hurt my colarbone.  Now it's so sensitive, I won't be doing that anytime soon.  I have had the auger motor out, and plugged it into an extension cord with two clips on the end.  The motor worked good, I couldn't stop it with my fingers holding it.  My proposed test is to disconnect the motor electrically, connect it to my extension cord, and then plug it into 110V.  If the motor turns and starts feeding the burn pot, then I know that under actual load, it works.  If it stops or whatever, then I will order a new motor.  I will do this w/o the stove plugged in.


a clamp meter would do it, but if you don't have one, well, you don't have one. I just absolutely hate when people just throw parts at something without verifying it is the issue. you need to find out where the power stops flowing when the auger motor is in it's 'failed" state. are all the safety's working? is the auger motor getting the correct voltage? It very well be the motor or it could be a safety or loose connection or loose ground.  I have seen on numerous occasions where someone will swap out a part and it works fine for a while. but still reverts back to the original symptom's. you can do what you want, it's your stove and wallet, I just recommend confirming it is the actual cause and not just the effect.


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## altmartion (Dec 9, 2013)

it it is a capacitor motor then the capacitor needs to be tested as well. if it is in line and not attached to the motor it most likely will not come with the new motor. if you do replace the motor make sure the capacitor gets changed too.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 9, 2013)

altmartion said:


> .....I just absolutely hate when people just throw parts at something without verifying it is the issue.


 
On the contrary, I have not thrown parts at the problem.  I have checked many components that people have suggested might be a problem, and in every case, I have confirmed that "that part" was not the problem.  I have put in a lot of hours checking things and the only thing I have bought is a lower auger bushing, which I do believe was allowing dust to escape out and after removing it, found it to be gouged in the bore.  I bought gaskets to replace as I remove parts.



altmartion said:


> you need to find out where the power stops flowing when the auger motor is in it's 'failed" state.


I completely agree, but it's harder than heck to get to things to check anything.  




altmartion said:


> are all the safety's working?


Well the three I checked, the hopper door safety switch, the low limit switch and the high limit switch have been checked and are working or are working in the correct condition.  The hopper lid safety switch is stuck in the closed position which allows the auger to operate.  If I open the hopper door, the switch does not open as it should, but stays in the closed position.  If you tap it, it will click open.  Since I keep the hopper door closed, the switch is working properly.



altmartion said:


> is the auger motor getting the correct voltage? It very well be the motor or it could be a safety or loose connection or loose ground.


  It's getting some voltage, but I have not checked the voltage to see what it is.  My focus is on ruling out the auger motor in a dynamic condition.  I was not able to do any work on the stove since this morning, so maybe tomorrow.



altmartion said:


> I have seen on numerous occasions where someone will swap out a part and it works fine for a while. but still reverts back to the original symptom's. you can do what you want, it's your stove and wallet, I just recommend confirming it is the actual cause and not just the effect.


 
Do you live near Maryland, I could always use some help.


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## Flammam (Dec 9, 2013)

In 20 years with my stove I have never had a auger jam. Heres what I would do. Take the motor off by loosening the collar that couples the motor to the auger. Turn the auger with pliers or vise grips until you see pellets falling into the burn pot. Now you know there is no auger jam. re install motor insuring the set screw is on the flat of the auger shaft and is tight. light stove and see what happens. If the auger stops after a couple minutes I would suspect the air sensor to be bad. Hope this helps


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## altmartion (Dec 9, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> On the contrary, I have not thrown parts at the problem.  I have checked many components that people have suggested might be a problem, and in every case, I have confirmed that "that part" was not the problem.  I have put in a lot of hours checking things and the only thing I have bought is a lower auger bushing, which I do believe was allowing dust to escape out and after removing it, found it to be gouged in the bore.  I bought gaskets to replace as I remove parts.
> 
> 
> I completely agree, but it's harder than heck to get to things to check anything.
> ...


if I did I sure would help. I wasn't suggesting you are a parts changer, just suggesting you diagnose further. in my biz, we have plenty of parts changers. lol
 I know these this can be hard to work on. I want to help with out changing parts.


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## Mt Bob (Dec 9, 2013)

AH,new info from you.Which one of the five error codes is it showing?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

bob bare said:


> AH,new info from you.Which one of the five error codes is it showing?


 
EX 0 or EX 10 if I remember correctly


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

Flammam said:


> In 20 years with my stove I have never had a auger jam. Heres what I would do. Take the motor off by loosening the collar that couples the motor to the auger. Turn the auger with pliers or vise grips until you see pellets falling into the burn pot. Now you know there is no auger jam. re install motor insuring the set screw is on the flat of the auger shaft and is tight. light stove and see what happens. If the auger stops after a couple minutes I would suspect the air sensor to be bad. Hope this helps


 
My first step was to clean out the hopper completely and remove the auger cover and vacuume out the pellets in the auger.  When it was clean, I would try to wiggle it and it would move slightly.  I put it back together, added pellets and started the stove.  The auger appeared to be jammed up again.

I removed the pellets from the hopper again, removed the auger cover again, and again vacuumed the pellets out of the auger.  In both instances, I also used a small dental tool to dislodge pellets and again put it together.

After the 3rd time, I bought a different kind of pellets as this problem surfaced after we switched from Lignetics to the Home Depot brand.  So I have freeded the auger motor at least 3 times with the same result.

This led me to believe the motor might be defective because it would not turn the auger yet I knew the auger could move albiet with the motor attached.

I was getting tired of doing the same thing with the same results, so I pulled the insert out enough to remove the rear panel, unscrewed the 5mm allen head on the collar, and removed the motor.  I then tried to turn the auger motor with my bare hands but couldn't turn it in the CW direction.  I just could not do it so I turned it CCW and then CW and it turned but was very rough. I also noticed a pile of sediment directly under the auger motor which anothe poster said was an indication that the lower bushing was bad.  So I removed the auger shaft and that's when I saw a goughed bushing.

As I have said many times, I also tested the auger motor on my kitchen counter and it seemed quiet, turned 360 degrees without any grinding, and so I then held the motor and with my fingers, tried to stop the motor.  I could not, but I am not sure if my ability to slow the motor down was as great a load as the auger was with pellets and a gouged bushing.  So I ordered a new bushing but not a motor.  After reassembling everything and trying it again,with the same results, I started expanding my search.  I checked the three swithes and the air sensor.  The air sensor is a PC board sticking in the cold air intake, so if it is good or bad, I cannot troubleshoot.  I wiped it clean and reinstalled.   I keep going back to testing the static load and the dynamic load of the motor.  I know it turns the auger because I placed an inspection mirror down there and with my flashlight, could see the collar start to rotate, but then stops rotating.  So the only thing different is the load of the pellets in the hopper.

So my test is to test the motor in a dynamic load with pellets using straight 110 V power to see if it will feed the pellets.  If it does, it dispels my motor and auger defective theory 100%.  Then this would lead me to the control circuitry, including the air sensor which I can't test, and the computer main circuit board.


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## Mt Bob (Dec 10, 2013)

If my memory is well,ex means exit program,error problem would be-err and then a number.Saw a way to unplug auger from control box and plug it into ignitor spot to test it,was in one of these fourms under rika,i think.Would save you from trying to get behind stove again.Search forums.Also the distributor(lucky distributing)will help with technical problems even though it is out of warrenty.Got to go to work now.Bob


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## Flammam (Dec 10, 2013)

Frank
I like your approach to troubleshooting the motor, apply the 110 directly to the terminals if it doesn't work under load its shot. There is a huge gear reduction in these motors to give them the torque to auger the pellets up the drop tube. Even if the motor was bad I would doubt you could hold the shaft from spinning with your hand. If it turns out to be the motor I think I have a used spare at home I could let go for a fair price.

John


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## altmartion (Dec 10, 2013)

bob bare said:


> If my memory is well,ex means exit program,error problem would be-err and then a number.Saw a way to unplug auger from control box and plug it into ignitor spot to test it,was in one of these fourms under rika,i think.Would save you from trying to get behind stove again.Search forums.Also the distributor(lucky distributing)will help with technical problems even though it is out of warrenty.Got to go to work now.Bob


I don't think this will work because the igniter should not ignite if the vac switch is not made. am I right?


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 10, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> So my test is to test the motor in a dynamic load with pellets using straight 110 V power to see if it will feed the pellets.  If it does, it dispels my motor and auger defective theory 100%..


Frank, there are a handful of us who have been suggesting this for the past few days. Just try it. You're looking all over for complex problems, ignoring the simple things first. 

You also don't say if you've checked the chute. Please try what I suggested, because I think you are either not letting the stove get hot enough on startup to close the low temp switch to toggle, or you have a jam or auger motor problem. But failing to power the motor directly and let it run to see if pellets come down the chute is like getting angry at a gumball machine because you didn't ensure you put a quarter in it. 

I doubt it's the brand of pellets. Many of us have used Chow with no trouble. Just run the auger motor directly with enough pellets in the hopper for an adequate test, and let us know how it goes.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

Maybe it is the motor.  I unplugged the auger motor from the stove, and plugged it directly into an extension cord.  With pellets in the hopper and knowing that the auger originally moved, I plugged it into AC outlet.  I could hear the humm of the motor, but by the time I wiggled an inspection mirror into place w/o touching the live wires, the auger motor collar was not moving.  I know it was on the flat of the motor, and I know it was tight when I assembled it a couple of days ago.  I know this sounds crazy but I now believe I need a new motor.  It should be turning the auger and it isn't.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

RKBAGUY said:


> Frank, there are a handful of us who have been suggesting this for the past few days. Just try it. You're looking all over for complex problems, ignoring the simple things first.
> 
> You also don't say if you've checked the chute. Please try what I suggested, because I think you are either not letting the stove get hot enough on startup to close the low temp switch to toggle, or you have a jam or auger motor problem. But failing to power the motor directly and let it run to see if pellets come down the chute is like getting angry at a gumball machine because you didn't ensure you put a quarter in it.
> 
> I doubt it's the brand of pellets. Many of us have used Chow with no trouble. Just run the auger motor directly with enough pellets in the hopper for an adequate test, and let us know how it goes.


 
When you say chute, I assume you mean the chute from the auger feed?  I can see clear through it from the top of the auger to the burn pot.  Clean as a new born baby's patute.  I'm sorry if I didn't say something to the effect earlier.

The gasket on the lower cast iron plate is damaged.  I ordered one but have not put it on yet.  Is it glued on?  That will be my next thing to fix before I put it all back together.

I worked outside a week ago and my right arm is now covered with poison ivy and working on the stove has become a challange to say the least.  So right now on Tuesday morning, I am convinced it is the auger motor.  When i get brave enough to remove the motor again, I will again confirm that the allen head is tight on the auger motor.

I will wait a day or so before ordering the auger motor to allow others to chime in on my diagnostic conclusion.


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## Flammam (Dec 10, 2013)

Sound like the motor is bad to me. When my motor went bad it got real loud, I replaced it before it failed. Ill look tonight to see if I have that spare if your interested.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

Flammam said:


> Sound like the motor is bad to me. When my motor went bad it got real loud, I replaced it before it failed. Ill look tonight to see if I have that spare if your interested.


 
To be honest, I would rather put a brand new one in.  I found my exact motor on Ebay, one for $97 plus shipping and the other for $283.99 but free shipping. They both look exactly the same, so I sent an email to ask the cheaper guy why his is so cheap and if it was new or factory refurbished.  We shall see what he says.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 10, 2013)

I removed the motor, plugged it in and held the shaft with pliars and it didn'ttake much to stop it.  Going by the retail store tomorrow to see if they have one in stock.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 11, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> I removed the motor, plugged it in and held the shaft with pliars and it didn'ttake much to stop it.  Going by the retail store tomorrow to see if they have one in stock.


 
They had one, but it is $358 plus 6% tax but it was my exact motor.  I found out that the $97 motor is not from Austria but a substitute for mine.  Since my OEM motor lasted from 2008 to 2012, four years, struggling to justify spending that much on a motor that has a 4 year operational life.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 11, 2013)

Flammam said:


> Frank
> I like your approach to troubleshooting the motor, apply the 110 directly to the terminals if it doesn't work under load its shot. There is a huge gear reduction in these motors to give them the torque to auger the pellets up the drop tube. Even if the motor was bad I would doubt you could hold the shaft from spinning with your hand. If it turns out to be the motor I think I have a used spare at home I could let go for a fair price.
> 
> John


 
John,  after seeing how much the motor costs retail, and on Ebay, tell me about the used one you have.  Why did you remove it?  Pt no and all that stuff.


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 11, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> They had one, but it is $358 plus 6% tax but it was my exact motor.  I found out that the $97 motor is not from Austria but a substitute for mine.  Since my OEM motor lasted from 2008 to 2012, four years, struggling to justify spending that much on a motor that has a 4 year operational life.


Frank, the OEM motor is made by Merkle - Korff, and they're pretty expensive, about $120 on eBay. The higher cost motor sounds like the combustion motor, which you don't need. 

There's another brand which escapes me at the moment, but even if it lasts only long enough for one season, you'll be a meat popsicle if you delay a decision for any longer. Just do it.


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## altmartion (Dec 11, 2013)

if you can plug it into a receptical, whay can't you take an amp reading? it will tell you yes or no if the motor is bad.


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## Flammam (Dec 11, 2013)

Frank
is that motor out of a Integra 1 or 2? The motor I have is out of a 1. I got it on ebay with a full lot of interga parts.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 11, 2013)

RKBAGUY said:


> Frank, the OEM motor is made by Merkle - Korff, and they're pretty expensive, about $120 on eBay. The higher cost motor sounds like the combustion motor, which you don't need.
> 
> There's another brand which escapes me at the moment, but even if it lasts only long enough for one season, you'll be a meat popsicle if you delay a decision for any longer. Just do it.


 

Found this one on Ebay of my exact motor, and it is a Berger Lahr and it costs $283 with free shipping.  This is the exact motor that my local stove dealer wants $358 plus 6% tax.







The other one is $97 plus shipping but it is a look-a-like and not from Austria. Pictured below.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 11, 2013)

altmartion said:


> if you can plug it into a receptical, whay can't you take an amp reading? it will tell you yes or no if the motor is bad.


 
I am not sure I understand what you're saying.  In order to take an amp reading, you need and ampmeter.  I don't have an ampmeter.  I took an extension cord, put blade terminals on the end, and plugged it into the motor.  It turned so it working, but when I grabbed it with pliars, it stopped and it didn't take much force to do so.  So I believe I have a defective motor, so what would an amp test tell me?  If it draws 1 amp of current, measured with a meter I don't own, is that good or bad?  If it draws 1.4amps of current, measured with a meter I don't own, is that a bad reading.  So hopefully you see my predicament.


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## Flammam (Dec 11, 2013)

I dont think those are the same motors. Notice the exact replacement has 4 wires actually going into the motor. The 97$ motor will only have 2 wires. Is your stove a integra 2?


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 11, 2013)

My stove is an Integra II.


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## Flammam (Dec 11, 2013)

It looks like you should buy the replacement, but before you do call the guy who sells them on ebay his name is J----- M-------(dont know if I can put names here) hes out in california. He will give you the definite answer.


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## Mt Bob (Dec 11, 2013)

Looks like you made headway,if it was plugged into the wall directly and did not push out pellets.Your motor was originally a high quality unit,but I beleve you can interchange it with the cheaper ones that our older ones use.Flammam is right,J>M> on ebay will know,and have the parts in stock.Yes there is a procedure to plug auger in where ignitor plugs in,will continue to run the cycle length of the ignitor when stove is turned on.Flammam,what version programming/eprom are you running?Bob


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## Mt Bob (Dec 11, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I don't think this will work because the igniter should not ignite if the vac switch is not made. am I right?


 No vacuum switch on integra.Combustion fan is controlled by mass air flow sensor,will cycle,we are testing the auger motor.Bob


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## altmartion (Dec 11, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> To be honest, I would rather put a brand new one in.  I found my exact motor on Ebay, one for $97 plus shipping and the other for $283.99 but free shipping. They both look exactly the same, so I sent an email to ask the cheaper guy why his is so cheap and if it was new or factory refurbished.  We shall see what he says.


you should also make sure in writing you are getting a warranty. most manufacturer won't warranty a product sold from another site. sometimes they might do it anyways, for political reasons I'm sure. but a lot of them don't have to. this is why I have an issue with installing parts the home owner has supplied. just a heads up.


bob bare said:


> No vacuum switch on integra.Combustion fan is controlled by mass air flow sensor,will cycle,we are testing the auger motor.Bob


ahh, I see.


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## Mark_ms (Dec 12, 2013)

Frank,
I sent you a PM


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 12, 2013)

altmartion said:


> you should also make sure in writing you are getting a warranty. most manufacturer won't warranty a product sold from another site. sometimes they might do it anyways, for political reasons I'm sure. but a lot of them don't have to. this is why I have an issue with installing parts the home owner has supplied. just a heads up.
> 
> ahh, I see.


 
Altmartion,
I believe you get what you pay for.  I am reluctant to buy the cheaper motor because his doesn't look like my OEM, but at $97, I could replace it every other year and probably be ahead.  HOWEVER, since this motor is so difficult for me to remove & reinstall, I don't want to do it any more than necessary.  I have contacted both sellers on Ebay, and both told me about their motor.  The cheaper motor is not from Austria and doesn't look like my OEM motor, but he said it would work.  The more expensive is my motor, and all my settings on my stove are set for this exact motor. 

It's kind of like do I buy an AC Delco alternator from the Chevy dealer or do I go to Autozone and buy the aftermarket alternator?   That's how I see it.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 12, 2013)

Mark_ms said:


> Frank,
> I sent you a PM


 
Out of curiosity, how do you send a PM?


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## Mark_ms (Dec 12, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> Out of curiosity, how do you send a PM?


 I clicked on your name below avavtar, there is a option for starting a "conversation"


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## altmartion (Dec 12, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> Altmartion,
> I believe you get what you pay for.  I am reluctant to buy the cheaper motor because his doesn't look like my OEM, but at $97, I could replace it every other year and probably be ahead.  HOWEVER, since this motor is so difficult for me to remove & reinstall, I don't want to do it any more than necessary.  I have contacted both sellers on Ebay, and both told me about their motor.  The cheaper motor is not from Austria and doesn't look like my OEM motor, but he said it would work.  The more expensive is my motor, and all my settings on my stove are set for this exact motor.
> 
> It's kind of like do I buy an AC Delco alternator from the Chevy dealer or do I go to Autozone and buy the aftermarket alternator?   That's how I see it.


I agree. it's kind of funny. if they sold it for $50 cheaper most people wouldn't even think twice. but because it is so cheap it throws up a flag. yes, you certainly get what you pay for. I loose too many jobs because so many hacks underbid me by a lot. sometime $2000. but I refuse to lower my prices because of quality. I just wish the home owners would understand that.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 14, 2013)

I ordered the auger motor yesterday late.  When I get it and get it installed, I will let you know if I am a genius or an idiot.


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## altmartion (Dec 14, 2013)

Frank Nuhfer said:


> I ordered the auger motor yesterday late.  When I get it and get it installed, I will let you know if I am a genius or an idiot.


I don't think you will be either. certainly not an idiot. it is hard to diagnose without the correct tools. and for some people it doesn't make sense to purchase them. I however am the opposite. I am always buying tools. but I am also a heating and mechanical contractor as well. I do suggest you invest in miltimeter. one that is easy to use and understand. I don't expect  you to purchase a fluke or extec but a decent quality.  this will help in future diagnostics. and if you can, get a clamp on meter. then you can get amp readings without removing connections. just a suggestion.


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## RKBAGUY (Dec 14, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I do suggest you invest in miltimeter. one that is easy to use and understand. I don't expect  you to purchase a fluke or extec but a decent quality.


If someone were to want to buy a good quality multimeter for general all-around use, but not be afraid to spend a few bucks, what would you recommend?  Is there something that the layman can use successfully, but perhaps with 'accessories' for specialty metering, say for amperage draw, or something like that?


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## Mt Bob (Dec 14, 2013)

Fluke,choice of electricians and automotive techs.


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## altmartion (Dec 14, 2013)

RKBAGUY said:


> If someone were to want to buy a good quality multimeter for general all-around use, but not be afraid to spend a few bucks, what would you recommend?  Is there something that the layman can use successfully, but perhaps with 'accessories' for specialty metering, say for amperage draw, or something like that?[/quote
> fluke makes great meters with lots of options. but they generally start expensive unless you want a stripped down model, which you don't.
> extec makes good quality at a fair price. they also have  low priced stripped down as well. and they are reliable just like fluke. I have found that extec is more "beginner" user friendly. not trying to offend you with the beginner reference. klien probably makes one too. you can get temp probes(sometimes 2) esp probes delta t readings. from what I am gathering from the info you have given us, again not trying to offend, I recommend the following; clamp on, miliviolts (usually standard), backlighting and  at least one temp probe. the temp probe is not a necessity but is very handy. you will be surprised how much you use it. obviously  you will want ohms and continuity alarm but they come with any good multimeter. peak hold is great for amp draws in hard to get to spots. like integra motors, lol. do research on fluke and extec web sites so you can figure out exactly what model works for you. extec used to have an interactive model search to help with the task of picking a model with the functions you need. I don't know if they still have it. now I want a new one. I have been thinking about ig a new one for a little while anyway. I think you just boosted me along. is it wrong to get exited about buying a new meter? or any tool?


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## ChandlerR (Dec 14, 2013)

bob bare said:


> Fluke,choice of electricians and automotive techs.


I LOVE my Flukes.  I have Snap on tools too because when you use them to earn a living, it pays to get first quality stuff.  A homeowner, not so much, but you don't want to buy something that won't work right.  My son in law has a multi meter from HD and his ohm meter does not agree with my Fluke...just sayin' (It's a digital and there's no zero adjustment)


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## Mt Bob (Dec 14, 2013)

Fluke 87 in my snap on box,.ffluke 23 for home.You can sometimes find 23s on ebay,and accessories plug in.You can trust fluke readings,cheap meters not so much.Also be aware when you get into adding a clamp adapter add on prices go way up,and this is where quality comes in,vs cheap meters and accessories.My 87 is true rms,needed for automotive,not needed around the house.


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## altmartion (Dec 14, 2013)

bob bare said:


> Fluke 87 in my snap on box,.ffluke 23 for home.You can sometimes find 23s on ebay,and accessories plug in.You can trust fluke readings,cheap meters not so much.Also be aware when you get into adding a clamp adapter add on prices go way up,and this is where quality comes in,vs cheap meters and accessories.My 87 is true rms,needed for automotive,not needed around the house.


true rms is important with todays heating equipment as well. clamp on will add to the price but is incredibly convenient. I will never be without one again. it saves a lot of screw'n around. I know extec has a clamp on that is not removable. and fluke probably does too. I prefer the removable but I use it many times every day. yes a reputable manufacture is important, you can't trust cheapo's 100%. at least not me. I sometimes play with big power and mistakes are not an option.


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## Frank Nuhfer (Dec 30, 2013)

I received my auger motor a couple of days before Christmas, but didn't get around to installing it until today, Monday.  It took a lot of cussing to get it in and tightened.  Turned on the stove and let it go, and it fired right up.  So after about a half hr run, I shut it down to allow it to cool off so I can put it all back together.  I still have it half out on the hearth.  Maybe I can get enthusiastic enough to put the plate on the back, tie up the wires looms, and push it back into it's spot, connect the side panels and anything else I had removed.  I must say that I learned a lot from this site, but unless it breaks again, I probably will not lurk around too much.  Happy New Year to all.


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## skibumm100 (Dec 31, 2013)

RKBAGUY said:


> If someone were to want to buy a good quality multimeter for general all-around use, but not be afraid to spend a few bucks, what would you recommend?  Is there something that the layman can use successfully, but perhaps with 'accessories' for specialty metering, say for amperage draw, or something like that?


 
Nothing wrong with buying a high quality Fluke. I own one, but I also own Omega's, Extech's and a Craftsman as well as a bunch of others....an old Simpson analog and a bunch of other analogs and digitals. I find about all of them are accurate enough and I would trust any of them for residential or light industrial work. The Fluke I have has a nice holster and an integral amp "fork" that works as a clamp on. Model number escapes me. I keep a multimeter in every vehicle, one in the kitchen and at least one in every tool box. I have too many tools.....


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## Frank Nuhfer (Jan 2, 2014)

Well I tied everything up, assembled all the panels and pushed it back into place.  It has been running since with no problems.  I did notice that the temperature coming out of the front of the stove is much hotter now, I suspect because everything is so clean.


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## Mark_ms (Jan 2, 2014)

Great to hear you got everything fixed, now enjoy the heat!


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## Mt Bob (Jan 2, 2014)

Also glad you got it going,we austrian stove owners have to stick together!PS right about the cleaning,the tangential blower used in these units can lose up to 30% air flow from dirt and crud.Clean every year!


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## pinetop12 (Jan 4, 2014)

bob bare said:


> Also glad you got it going,we austrian stove owners have to stick together!PS right about the cleaning,the tangential blower used in these units can lose up to 30% air flow from dirt and crud.Clean every year!



I have followed this thread  with great interest.  You guys were  great with all the help offered.  I  feel i learned a lot   about the Rika /Austroflamm.  and, Frank,  glad your up and running. Nice job .


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## db131 (Jan 7, 2014)

Hello All,

I have been reading threads for a while now to help with my Rika Integra II insert, and I have found a lot of helpful information.  I am currently in a similar spot as Frank was.  My stove is erratically shutting down with an error 0.  The only condition I can sometimes  notice prior to it happening, is when A.) the stove temp is turned down say from 35 to 5, and/or B.) when the stove goes into CL (clean) mode.  I am not positive if either A or B is true, nor does it consistently happen...it is very sporadic- sometimes once a day, sometimes once every few days.  When it does happen, the burn pot flame dies down, but the auger continues to feed pellets, and both fans (exhaust and convection) are still running.  I can't figure it out.  Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Dave


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## Mt Bob (Jan 7, 2014)

I think error3 just means stove shut down but did not call to shut down.Kind of like a check engine light,it doesnt know what part is bad,just that there is a problem.When it happens does combustion motor sound like running at proper speed?Possible easy problems-blockage in exhaust,blockage in OAK.Not so easy stuff-motor staring to go,board problem,etc.Harderto check because insert.Try just cracking door open next time it is dying and opserve flame.


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## Mt Bob (Jan 7, 2014)

PS maybe webbie can help you start a new thread,you would get more response.


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## pinetop12 (Jan 7, 2014)

db131 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have been reading threads for a while now to help with my Rika Integra II insert, and I have found a lot of helpful information.  I am currently in a similar spot as Frank was.  My stove is erratically shutting down with an error 0.  The only condition I can sometimes  notice prior to it happening, is when A.) the stove temp is turned down say from 35 to 5, and/or B.) when the stove goes into CL (clean) mode.  I am not positive if either A or B is true, nor does it consistently happen...it is very sporadic- sometimes once a day, sometimes once every few days.  When it does happen, the burn pot flame dies down, but the auger continues to feed pellets, and both fans (exhaust and convection) are still running.  I can't figure it out.  Any thoughts?
> 
> ...



Hi  Dave,

  Like you, I   and mostly lurk on the site reading    and hopefully learning.  Hope I'm right when I suggest this ..... first you should start a new thread  about your Rika Insert II . There is a blue tab to create a new thread .  Top right of the yellow threads.  This will be good for your specific  issue . 

  Then post whatever info you  can think of  especially  what you have been doing for cleaning.  From your description  /and I am a novice/   Have you looked at the intake and  exhaust  for deeper cleaning.  If the stove shuts down   the low limit switch  or air sensor could just need to be cleaned.

 Have you these links? http://luckydist.com/Heat/product.cqs?prod_id=86d6921ffd7e617d9c75f5d800d0a04e

 Take a look it may help a  little.

 Good Luck


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