# PSG Caddy vs Super Jack



## biggenius29 (Oct 6, 2009)

I have narrowed down my choice for a add on furnace between the PSG Caddy or the Yukon Super Jack.

What is the better of the two furnaces?  I found a deal on a Caddy with a blower for $2500.  I found two of them for that price.  One is brand new from a dealer, but is last years model, but the unit is about a hour away .  The second one was used for two days and I guess it was to big for the house it was installed in and they took it out and put in a Mini Caddy, but this dealer is about 5 minuits from me.

 The Super Jack is $2449, but also $321 for a blower, and I still have to pay shipping.

What is the better way to go, and what furnace is better?  I hear good things of the PSG and the Yukon.

Also, what size chimney does the Caddy need?  One dealer says a 6", the other says a 7".


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## laynes69 (Oct 6, 2009)

I can't tell you much about the Yukon. But the Caddy I can. Its got a 7 gauge firebox which is the same as the Yukon, and the Caddy is EPA Certified. I posted a couple of days ago of a Caddy in action. Built well, with a large secondary heat exchanger, and preheated secondary air for a clean burn. Personally I would choose the Caddy if you want a clean burning unit. They take a 6" flue, and a 7 if you add an oil burner. Also you can add an electric heater to the unit. Your Caddy is less, no shipping and get a reciept it qualifies for the tax credit. Here is a link to the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ND5ia8qA50


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## biggenius29 (Oct 6, 2009)

If the power goes out, can a fire still stay going?  Or does the Caddy need power to get air to it?


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## biggenius29 (Oct 6, 2009)

Actually I just found one on Dynamite buys for $2358.21.  

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1131

I dont think I can beat that price.


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## freeburn (Oct 6, 2009)

That one on dynamite buys does not include the blower.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 6, 2009)

I will point out that the Caddy only has a 5 year warranty whereas the Yukon has 30 years.
The Caddy is built in Canada the Yukon in the U.S.

Go to the owners manuals. Look at the draft speed.The Caddy .04-.06 the SJ .03 which means you'll be running less heat up the flue giving you longer burn times and going through less wood with the Super Jack.
The SJ125 also has a round top to prevent wargage unlike the Caddy.

buying from Canada says that was a broker fee involved to get it to the US plus there is the dealer markup and potential state sales tax.
So what are you really getting for your money?
In this case you do not get what you pay for unlike buying directly from the factory with the Super Jack.

The SJ125 has more heat exchange surface area too which aides in exchanging heats faster.

I'm sure I could pick out more differences if I went to their manual. 
I should also mention Yukon gives out free technical service over the phone.
So there you have it. The Yukons are made to last with over 35 years of furnaces on the market. We are proud of what we build and that we are very competitvely priced.
They also fall into the biomass credit which allows you to take 30% on your taxes.


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## lexybird (Oct 6, 2009)

i would think being that the caddy is made in canada would actually be a strong selling point given their climate is generally much more frigid than ours gets and they would surely know how to build a good heating appliance by this stage of the game . as far as sales tax im pretty sure thats going to come into play in any state you purchase a product like this directly in.for me when i purchase an expensive  product i dont usually consider what the companies export tariffs are their broker fees administrative costs  etc.. i care about the bottom line final price for me to have this setup and running in my house.id think any unregulated woodstove can possibly run away regardless of the firebox design and having a huge footprint or large overall weight may not transcend into a gain over a smaller more advanced unit ,seems  there is a limitation to everything .


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## laynes69 (Oct 7, 2009)

The EPA Certification means it went through strict guidlines with emissions to qualify. The Yukon is a EPA Exempt furnace. Meaning pollution is higher. If the Yukon was what they say it is, they would have got the certification a long time ago. I'm not a salesman, but a happy owner. Also read the print on the furnaces. The Yukon has a prorated warranty. The Caddy is a step into the future with its clean burning technologies. Thats why I choose the furnace I did. As far as fees go you get them everywhere you go.


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## biggenius29 (Oct 7, 2009)

laynes69 said:
			
		

> I can't tell you much about the Yukon. But the Caddy I can. Its got a 7 gauge firebox which is the same as the Yukon, and the Caddy is EPA Certified. I posted a couple of days ago of a Caddy in action. Built well, with a large secondary heat exchanger, and preheated secondary air for a clean burn. Personally I would choose the Caddy if you want a clean burning unit. They take a 6" flue, and a 7 if you add an oil burner. Also you can add an electric heater to the unit. Your Caddy is less, no shipping and get a reciept it qualifies for the tax credit. Here is a link to the video.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ND5ia8qA50




Is that a PSG?  The only one I find from them is the Caddy and Mini Caddy.


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## mike1234 (Oct 7, 2009)

Just one thing you might look at, what are you going to do with the caddy if it is running hot (normal) and the electricity goes out?  Where does all that heat go?  Does it warp / ruin the furnace, or just pump all that heat into your ducting, and you do not want that kind of heat into your ducting.  The superjack has a heat dump you can buy for dealing with that issue if you are not home.  Maybe it can be used with the caddy too, not sure.  When you get home after the power outage you can remove the sides and still burn the superjack to provide heat, I don't think the caddy is set up for that either.  

Just a little fuel for the fire.       




			
				biggenius29 said:
			
		

> I have narrowed down my choice for a add on furnace between the PSG Caddy or the Yukon Super Jack.
> 
> What is the better of the two furnaces?  I found a deal on a Caddy with a blower for $2500.  I found two of them for that price.  One is brand new from a dealer, but is last years model, but the unit is about a hour away .  The second one was used for two days and I guess it was to big for the house it was installed in and they took it out and put in a Mini Caddy, but this dealer is about 5 minuits from me.
> 
> ...


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## ikessky (Oct 7, 2009)

I believe the Super Jack also has a secondary burn system, but I'm not sure if the size below that does or not.  Keith can enlighten us on that though.  I don't think the Caddy runs anything more than secondary burn does it?
FWIW, I ran a little over 4 full cords through my Daka smoke dragon EPA exempt furnace and had less than 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket of soot.  Not too shabby for a smoke dragon in my opinion.


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## freeburn (Oct 7, 2009)

It all depends on the wood. How wet, how hot etc. I'd be interested as well to hear if the BJ90 has secondary burn. I know that there is no heat exchanger in it like the SJ125. Yukon needs to have better diagrams on their website, or at least a real life picture somewhere. Hint Hint.


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## laynes69 (Oct 7, 2009)

The heat dump can be used on anything. They aren't an exclusive on a certain model of furnace. When the electricity goes out, the damper automatically closes and it goes on a low clean burn. The heat in the ducting is why all steel ducting is required and the clearances on the ducting followed. Any furnace can warp burn out due to excessive overfiring. One other thing is the Caddy produces more btus, and has a firebox half the size. Why, its efficiency and doesn't need a 7 cubic foot firebox to heat a home. The video is the exact same furnace, but was rebadged for usstove. On the  30-35 degree nights, I've been using 3 splits with coals in the morning to heat my home. Its a 2400 sq ft victorian with 10' ceilings. It would take double or more with my old furnace.  I want to know how the secondary air is put into the Yukon, close that baby down and lets see how clean it  burns.


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## ikessky (Oct 7, 2009)

Hopefully Keith will come back with an answer to these questions.  I don't own either stove, but may be looking at one in the not so distant future.


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## herbdan (Oct 7, 2009)

Not to throw more wood on the fire, but have you looked at the new furnace from Blaze King?  It's a CAT and is suppose to be super efficient.

Herbster


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## mike1234 (Oct 8, 2009)

Glad the dump can be used on anything, I'd suggest whatever someone buys they incorporate that.  

The secondary air goes in 2 ways, through the door, which is not a straight shot like your furnace, but flows that air throughout the whole door to heat it, before it comes out onto the fire, and also through the forced draft blower - some of that air goes straight to the fire, some goes around the firebox, superheats and dumps onto the smoke above the fire.  I do close it down, and it does burn clean.   You could of read all this in the manual, but the diagram is not totally clear.   

As for BTU's I heat a 4800 sq ft house, ok insulation, 4000 finished, with the living room with 25' ceilings with my furnace in an uninsulated garage.    3 splits on a 35 degree night is good, you could do the same thing with the superjack.  As I was shopping for a furnace, I noticed that the BTU's listed may be inflated.   

Trying to be neutral, not taking into account I have spent 5000 or so on a furnace and need my ego to defend that (others might try that also)  I'd say:
caddy is probably more efficient, those secondary burn tubes supply air in a better manner to the smoke.  The window on the door is very cool.  But those secondary burn tubes will need replacing at some point, and the smaller firebox is a drawback. 
superjack has a much bigger firebox.  It also has more steal and a better way to hold onto that heat that is produced, and then transfer to the house.  It is less efficient, and could benefit from some sort of secondary burn tubes, but then there would be more maintenance costs.  

If I was to buy today, I would be conflicted.  I know that smaller firebox will be an issue on really cold nights, but I'd sure like to be able to see my secondary burn through the door.  I have 2 friends with usstove furnaces, and the yukon is miles better than theirs, but they don't have the caddy, they have older, lighter, much more inefficient models.   

So to answer the original poster - biggenius29 - if I was in your shoes, and my house was under 3000 sq ft and well insulated, I'd go with the caddy, if it was over 3000 sq ft or if it was poorly insulated, I'd go with the superjack.   That's just what I would do.





			
				laynes69 said:
			
		

> The heat dump can be used on anything. They aren't an exclusive on a certain model of furnace. When the electricity goes out, the damper automatically closes and it goes on a low clean burn. The heat in the ducting is why all steel ducting is required and the clearances on the ducting followed. Any furnace can warp burn out due to excessive overfiring. One other thing is the Caddy produces more btus, and has a firebox half the size. Why, its efficiency and doesn't need a 7 cubic foot firebox to heat a home. The video is the exact same furnace, but was rebadged for usstove. On the  30-35 degree nights, I've been using 3 splits with coals in the morning to heat my home. Its a 2400 sq ft victorian with 10' ceilings. It would take double or more with my old furnace.  I want to know how the secondary air is put into the Yukon, close that baby down and lets see how clean it  burns.


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## laynes69 (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't believe in forced draft. You can supercharge a fire, and burn through wood like theres no tommorrow. I had one on the old furnace, and I will tell you I cut my burn times in half with it running. One problem there is you are throwing cold air onto a fire. If you did have a good secondary burn area, you cool it too much to burn the smoke with it running. The Caddy has 2 draft tubes below the loading door in the front. They go under the firebox, behind the firebox, through the firebox then into the tubes, which there are 4 of them. They are made of a high grade stainless, along with the rails in the furnace which will stand up to high temps in the unit. Some stove companies use a fiber board baffle that breaks easily and deteriotates, where the Caddy has a 4 layer insulated stainless baffle. Hours after the fire burns out, the furnace is still warm. The Caddy has the airwash for the glass which is primary thats preheated. It burns the wood from the front to the back completely. The secondary air is fixed, and is always there promoting a clean burn. My old woodfurnace would have heated quicker than this one, but for the fear of a chimney fire, and its appetite for wood I choose what I choose. I agree with the post if you have a huge home, then the caddy may not be for you, but you wouldn't regret the choice. I was drawn back by the firebox size, but the btus are there from the new designs. Its nothing to hear of a good 10 to 12 hour burn out of a EPA stove with the same size firebox.  So that pretty much sums it up. There are positives and negatives of either so good luck. Theres an owner here in ohio that heated a 3000 square foot poorly insulated home with his caddy. Take in account the weather for your area.


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## ikessky (Oct 8, 2009)

Great info on both furnaces guys!  I appreciate the descriptions.  I'm sure by the time my Daka is done though, I'll have forgotten all of this!


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## cenzino (Oct 13, 2009)

Great info guys. Does anybody know if the caddy offers  domestic hot water coil/rod?


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## laynes69 (Oct 13, 2009)

It doesn't but could drill 2 holes and insert a heated water loop for hot water. Not sure if it would void the warranty. It could be placed between the top of the firebox and below the secondary heat exchanger without drilling into the main firebox, just the jacket around the firebox.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 13, 2009)

just another tid bit....I know of guys that live in northern Mn. that heat their entire 3500 s/f home with 12 hour burn times....actually longer because of the 8" bed of coal they are loading wood on before they go to bed and when they wake up.


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## ikessky (Oct 13, 2009)

Does the Big Jack have secondary burn also?


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## lexybird (Oct 13, 2009)

this is probably why the caddy uses a higher draft column than the yukon uses ,it needs it because it uses a natural draft principle (simple effective and no forced blower fans to use up more energy )the outdoor wood boiler  guys know this all to well when you run a forced draft blower to heat things up in the firebox its going to eat up wood over say cracking the lower ash door open


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## laynes69 (Oct 13, 2009)

Yes exactly. Our furnace requires a better draft due to the design of the furnace. Many stove owners have few complaints until upgrading to something that EPA certified. Its all in the design. Our old furnace very little draft it would be fine. This one just because it has a higher draft doesn't mean the fire burns quicker. There are multiple places that air must be drawn into the firebox for proper combustion. Forced draft units are good on OWB's where people burn green wood, but with a furnace they work but use the wood in the process.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 13, 2009)

ikessky said:
			
		

> Does the Big Jack have secondary burn also?



Yes it does.


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## cenzino (Oct 15, 2009)

ok! I know how to get hold of the people at yukon,also Keith is always willing and ready to help to help. About psg caddy, how can you get hold of factory support.Is there any factory support.


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## laynes69 (Oct 15, 2009)

I've had them contact me through e-mail and also over the phone.


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## cenzino (Oct 15, 2009)

laynes69. can you get me their phone #/ email address?
Thank you very much for all your help


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## laynes69 (Oct 15, 2009)

http://www.psg-distribution.com/contact-us.aspx

Follow the links to get ahold of them. They are out of Canada. I deleted their information from my e-mail. I needed some parts and they took care of things. Even called me personally when I couldn't contact them.


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## cenzino (Oct 17, 2009)

Great. Thank you very much laynes69. I am emailing them to find out about the dhw coil. If it is available, and will not interfere with the warranty of the unit, I will buy a caddy.


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## biggenius29 (Oct 18, 2009)

cenzino said:
			
		

> Great. Thank you very much laynes69. I am emailing them to find out about the dhw coil. If it is available, and will not interfere with the warranty of the unit, I will buy a caddy.



If one is available can you post or let me know?  \


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## cenzino (Oct 18, 2009)

unfortunately the caddy does not offer a DHW loop or coil.  Back to square one.


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## mike1234 (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm sure this causes some real problems with the warranty, but any DHW loop would work, just put it in the back panel, and it looks like from their video that there is plenty of room.  OR.... get a superjack that has a DHW loop that would not void the warranty.


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## Gooserider (Oct 19, 2009)

mike1234 said:
			
		

> I'm sure this causes some real problems with the warranty, but any DHW loop would work, just put it in the back panel, and it looks like from their video that there is plenty of room.  OR.... get a superjack that has a DHW loop that would not void the warranty.



Note also that putting a DHW coil in a stove designed for secondary combustion COULD also cause some burn problems - they go to a great deal of effort to get the firebox up to secondary burn temperatures, and that DHW coil is going to work like sticking a big ice cube in the middle of the works...  It could very easily cause loss of secondary combustion with resuting efficiency loss and creosote buildup from the now unburned combustion gasses...

Gooserider


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## cenzino (Oct 19, 2009)

even if installed in the primary fire box? you think it would impact the secondary burn? I wonder how it works in the yukon then. It has the DHW option, and a secondary burn. But then I was thinking that the caddy was a more advanced, and efficient system, and that was the reason I was leaning toward it.


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## Gooserider (Oct 19, 2009)

cenzino said:
			
		

> even if installed in the primary fire box? you think it would impact the secondary burn? I wonder how it works in the yukon then. It has the DHW option, and a secondary burn. But then I was thinking that the caddy was a more advanced, and efficient system, and that was the reason I was leaning toward it.



Sometimes being more "advanced and efficient" also means being more sensitive to changes as well - look at cars for instance, you used to be able to do a tuneup almost by ear, and if you were off a bit it would still run just fine, while getting 12mpg...  Nowadays cars get far better mileage, but it takes a far more sophisticated setup to tune them, and if everything isn't spot on they run like crap...

I haven't studied the Caddy in detail, but I suspect that if the designers didn't account for the possibility of doing a DHW coil in it, you might very well have it cause problems w/ secondary burn.

Gooserider


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## mike1234 (Oct 19, 2009)

I think you want to stay out of the primary firebox.  The video for the caddy shows the "filter box" (their words) and on the top the heat exchanger, both of these areas don't effect the fire in any way, they are the heat transfer areas.  I would think a DHW loop in either of those areas will work to make hot water, but it will rob a certain amount of heat from your house, but I guess any DHW loop in any wood furnace would do that same thing.   




			
				cenzino said:
			
		

> even if installed in the primary fire box? you think it would impact the secondary burn? I wonder how it works in the yukon then. It has the DHW option, and a secondary burn. But then I was thinking that the caddy was a more advanced, and efficient system, and that was the reason I was leaning toward it.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 19, 2009)

cenzino said:
			
		

> even if installed in the primary fire box? you think it would impact the secondary burn? I wonder how it works in the yukon then. It has the DHW option, and a secondary burn. But then I was thinking that the caddy was a more advanced, and efficient system, and that was the reason I was leaning toward it.



When you are making all 8000 btu's per lb on your wood and exchanging all of the btu's...how can you get any more advanced?
It's not all about the reburn.You have to be able to exchange the heats your making.
Then there's durabilty & longevity to consider.
The Hot Rod we make does not effect the reburn in our furnace.It will generate 18 gallons an hour with an 80 degree rise.We have a long history of very satisfied customers and heating contractors. 
In our line of 6 furnaces I'm sure we can match you up with one that will do exactly what you'll need it to do so that your liquid fuel bill is a thing of the past.


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## laynes69 (Oct 19, 2009)

Mike is right, all the secondary combustion is done by the time it hits the top of the firebox before it enters the secondary heat exchanger. In no way would it affect the combustion of the furnace. I've considered doing it on my furnace, but I don't want a potential bomb in the basement. If I ever thought of a more efficient way to heat water, I would look at some of the new water heaters. You place a hot water coil directly in the firebox, and it will effect combustion. PSG makes a furnace called the MAX Caddy. I has the option to add a water coil. I think the coil is between the secondary heat exchanger, and the top of the firebox. For a left or right installation. But its too big.


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## cenzino (Oct 20, 2009)

I know what you are saying Keith. I am not counting out the yukon just yet. My old jensen is a little undersized for my need,and eats a lot of wood, but it works ok  therefore it is giving me the opportunity to look at all that is available, efiiciency and all that. I like the looks of the Caddy and the fact that it meets EPA, but it does not offer DHW. I also looked at the Max caddy wood only, and it does, but I do not think it meets EPA, or uses the same burning principles as the regular caddy, and it is in the $3300.00 range. Having said all that, I am still undecided.


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## keepmewarm (Oct 26, 2009)

How do I find the dealers in Michigan you are talking about for the Cadddy?


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## whankin2 (Oct 26, 2009)

Here ya go:

http://www.psg-distribution.com/find-dealer.aspx?Country=us


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## laynes69 (Oct 26, 2009)

From what I have read, the Max Caddy does have the same combustion technology in the furnace as the Caddy. It meets canadian standards for their clean burning, but in order for it to meet the US standards for certification it would need a 20+ hour burn. This had came from an employee that worked for the company that built the furnaces.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 28, 2009)

I typically can get 12-15 hour burn times and if I damper my Jack down I'll get 20 hours.


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## laynes69 (Oct 28, 2009)

Thats the problem keith. People do that and you see it in their stacks. Do you think its okay to buy a furnace, stuff it to the gills and damper it down where it smolders not producing much heat for 20 hours? I can say that when I'm burning, I'm producing alot of heat for a long time. If somebody did that I would hate to see their chimney. Thats where upgrading to a modern woodburning appliance has its perks. No more smoldering, creasote, low heat output. I get more heat from less than half the wood than I did with the old furnace stuffed and a longer clean burn.  A 20 hour burn, please.


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## ikessky (Oct 28, 2009)

Why do you keep referring to the Jack furnaces as outdated?  They have a secondary burn just like your Hotblast don't they?


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## freeburn (Oct 28, 2009)

The secondary burn on the Jack furnaces is 20% of the air that comes into the firebox through the forced air draft blower. It's 80% below and 20% above. That is according to the website. The secondary air is directed just above the firebrick toward the middle of the firebox. At least that's what the pictures lead you to believe. Perhaps I'm wrong on this, Kieth will be here shortly to correct if I am wrong.


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## ikessky (Oct 28, 2009)

freeburn said:
			
		

> The secondary burn on the Jack furnaces is 20% of the air that comes into the firebox through the forced air draft blower. It's 80% below and 20% above. That is according to the website. The secondary air is directed just above the firebrick toward the middle of the firebox. At least that's what the pictures lead you to believe. Perhaps I'm wrong on this, Kieth will be here shortly to correct if I am wrong.


Is that better or worse than the Caddy though?  I don't run either of them nor have I seen them in person.


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## CrappieKeith (Oct 29, 2009)

True ikessky.....our dear freind layne is trying to build up his choice in funaces like is has something to do with who he is as a person.
Been seeing this for months now and it's getting old.

Layne......getting some build up in a flue is going to be always there when burning wood. It's the nature of the beast and therefore some resposibility will always be there when someone chooses to burn wood instead of high priced liquid fuel.
To think you'll never brush out a flue is ridiculus.
I brush mine out once a year.
I also run my stack temps up high periodically over the coarse of the heating season to help burn out any small amounts of dried creosote deposits.
There will always be some labor when you are looking for the big payback.....nobody can sit at home all week doing nothing and then expect a guy to stop by on fri. with a paycheck for him.

Now as to the 20 hour burn times.
Here ya go assuming again Layne....which is all to normal for you.
I get 20 hour burn times when I need them like when I go 2 hours away guiding a ice fishing trip and I could be gone that long.
I refuse to pay for liquid fuel, so I'll set up my Big Jack to give me that burn rate.I must admit it's great to have that option.
My furnace does not load up either.
If I did that day in and day out I could see where my pipe would see a buildup of creosote,but I don't. My normal 12-15 hour burn times are just fine.
I can load it in the am and pm and it run 24/7 that way .I never have to re light my furnace and like I said before I clean out my flue once a season.

We are also American Made not Canadian.


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## Gooserider (Oct 29, 2009)

Let's save the flames for inside our respective favorite heating appliances folks...  Seems like this is starting to get a bit more towards personalities and less towards the hardware, and that makes me start wanting to do mod stuff...

Gooserider


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## Fsappo (Oct 29, 2009)

CrappieKeith said:
			
		

> True ikessky.....our dear freind layne is trying to build up his choice in funaces like is has something to do with who he is as a person.
> Been seeing this for months now and it's getting old.
> 
> Layne......getting some build up in a flue is going to be always there when burning wood. It's the nature of the beast and therefore some resposibility will always be there when someone chooses to burn wood instead of high priced liquid fuel.
> ...



Isnt Canada North American and still American made????

I love the PSG furnaces and have sold many locally.  Also, for LOCAL folks, I will always match any internet pricing to keep the business local.  I have also sold the Yukons in the past and have NEVER had a problem with the product or the service.  We just installed a huge EPA Certified wood/oil Max Caddy in a local chain saw shop..what a beautiful piece of equipment.


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