# Who has a wood stove in their garage?



## Lumber-Jack

In a quest to find some definitive answers to codes and requirements in different areas in regard to installing wood burning stoves in garages I thought I would start a thread and ask some questions of those who actually have them installed in their garages. If you wouldn't mind answering these few questions it would be helpful.

(1) Is the garage that you have the wood stove installed in attached to your house?
(2) Did you have the installation inspected by someone, if so who? (title, not name)
(3) Is your home insurance provider aware of the installation and still covering your home?
(4) Was there any special requirements you had to meet to have the wood stove installed in the garage?
(5) Do you park or store vehicles in the garage?
(6) What area are you located?

I think that is about it, if you have anything you'd like to add that would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## Snotrocket

In Maine where I live a wood stove in the garage is a big no no. It is impossible to insure it if it is.

If the garage is attached they won't insure the house either.


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## charger4406

I have my regency installed in the garage/workshop.
1- no it is detached.
2- firechief,he is a neighbor,and insurance agent.
3-yes
4-Oak
5-yes
6-Quebec
I think the OAK is because of having vehicules in the garage
but it is a VERY drafty building to begin with so maybe just to
satisfy town codes.


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## jharkin

It took 20 seconds of google time to find that the national fire code (NFPA 211) states

_12.2.3 Solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in_
_any location where gasoline or any other flammable vapors or_
_gases are present._
_12.2.4 Solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in_
_any garage._


So unless your in a local jurisdiction that has not adopted the national fire codes I'd say its probably a no go. I'd bet 99.9% of Insurance companies would use the above to deny coverage even if the local authority allowed it.

[EDIT - I should have noticed you are in Canada. I dont know if NFPA applies up there.]


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## Lumber-Jack

Please guys, I know about the code, but there are those who still have them installed, in the interest of not turning this thread into a debate, lets just let those who DO have wood stoves installed in their garages answer the questions. Thanks


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## dorkweed

I know of a couple of auto/truck repair places that burn used oil as a heat source for the garage in a dedicated unit.  I can't imagine they operate without insurance on the building, and I don't really see the difference (insurance wise) between and wood stove and a oil heater!!


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## Highbeam

So I recently built a 30x60 detached shop with three 12x12 garage doors. I drive in and park stuff there. Lots of fuel cans and stufff.

I live in Pierce County WA, not some podunk redneck place. This county includes many metro areas, rich people, and cities including Tacoma WA. We have adopted the national codes.

I asked my building inspector if he would approve of a woodstove in the shop. He said yes, so long as it was elevated 18" and if in the direct path of a vehicle needed a bollard of some sort. Needed to be an EPA certified stove too. OAK is not required in the shop since it is a slab though they are required in my house. Cool I thought, let's get a shop stove, it will be permitted and legal.

Then I visited my state farm insurance office. A wood stove in the shop, though legal and permitted, would be a "remove or non-renew" for my policy. They will cancel my whole insurance policy due to the woodstove in ANY outbuilding. Wasn't the garage part, it was the outbuilding part.

A coworker in my office was able to get his insurance company to cover it. A smaller mutual insurance company but it had to be permitted and approved by the county.
So yes, I can install one. I like my insurance so I chose not to..... at this time.


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## Ogilvy

Similar 18" rule here in NB, hoping to install stove in my garage in next year or so. Pretty sure it just the door opening that has to be 18" up.


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## formula_pilot

f





Carbon_Liberator said:


> In a quest to find some definitive answers to codes and requirements in different areas in regard to installing wood burning stoves in garages I thought I would start a thread ask some questions of those who actually have them installed in their garages. If you wouldn't mind answering these few questions it would be helpful.
> 
> (1) Is the garage that you have the wood stove installed in attached to your house?
> (2) Did you have the installation inspected by someone, if so who? (title, not name)
> (3) Is your home insurance provider aware of the installation and still covering your home?
> (4) Was there any special requirements you had to meet to have the wood stove installed in the garage?
> (5) Do you park or store vehicles in the garage?
> (6) What area are you located?
> 
> I think that is about it, if you have anything you'd like to add that would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


 
I am in the process of installing my Old VC Defiant in a barn (workshop). It does store a vehicle, and was built to be a garage, but has barn doors and looks like a Connecticut county barn from the 1800s, so it is technically not a "garage" to the town, but to me it is . I spoke with the local Fire marshall about it, he says I need to have the firebox 18 inches off the floor and meet standard clearances, and he will ok it. My insurance co is ok with it (verbally), as long as the fire mashall inspects and approves the install.. I decided to go ahead- so far I have rebuilt the Old Defiant, built a non-combustable wall and bought the Class A chimney and double wall pipe. Will start cutting holes for the pipe this weekend. I will update with my progress. I am in Connecticut - southern New England in USA.

Bill


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## Lumber-Jack

Well it looks like in Canada we have no problem with wood stoves in garages, attached or not, as long as you raise the hearth 18".
But it looks like in the USA you can do it, but you'll have to find some local way to circumvent that national fire code (NFPA 211), and find some insurance agent that is willing to cover you if you do so.  Of course finding an insurance company that will cover you if you have a wood heating appliance in your home can be a bit of a task anyway, regardless of whether you have a wood stove in your garage or not.  I know there are certain carriers out there that won't touch homes with wood stoves period.

Still, I'm surprised there aren't more people responding to this thread, I remember seeing quite a few pictures of garage installations in this forum over the years, seems to me most of them were in the US too...  Maybe they were all illegitimate installations and they are too embarrassed to stand up.


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## Highbeam

I am always surprised at how many stoves are installed without permits. Might be done properly but without a permit, the only record of the stove is when the fire inspector finds it in the ashes and calls it "illegal" since no permit was pulled.


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## Pertzbro

As an owner of an agency and avid wood burner, bringing this thread back to life. 

Please note, having your agent know of a non-permitted, not to code solid wood burning device - especially in a garage and the agent saying he's ok with it, does not equal the actual company providing coverage in the event of a fire. You could in theory sue your agent, but unless you have it in writing from the company - likely no coverage. 

Biggest deal here is use common sense. Raise the stove and put flammables in another location or buy a flammable storage cabinet.


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## bholler

Pertzbro said:


> As an owner of an agency and avid wood burner, bringing this thread back to life.
> 
> Please note, having your agent know of a non-permitted, not to code solid wood burning device - especially in a garage and the agent saying he's ok with it, does not equal the actual company providing coverage in the event of a fire. You could in theory sue your agent, but unless you have it in writing from the company - likely no coverage.
> 
> Biggest deal here is use common sense. Raise the stove and put flammables in another location or buy a flammable storage cabinet.


Well said.  The fact is no matter what you do it is against code in the us.  And regardless of what your agent tells you if something happens the insurance company can deny the claim because of it.

That being said i have an old fisher in the garage i use to work on vehicles.  It is installed to canadian standards.  But i know if something happens its my problem.  The garage is over 100 yards from my house shop and garage we park in so there would be no other loss.


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## electrathon

I asked our building inspector about this a couple years ago.  The answer I got was it is OK to install it in a shop, not OK in a garage.  I have a shop, not a garage.


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## bholler

electrathon said:


> I asked our building inspector about this a couple years ago.  The answer I got was it is OK to install it in a shop, not OK in a garage.  I have a shop, not a garage.


Calling it something else doesnt eliminate the flamable vapors that come with the fuel in the tank of any vehicle you pull in there.  Unless your inspector was willing to give you a written vaiver of that clause in the code book it would still be against code.  And no inspector will take on that liability.


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## electrathon

bholler said:


> Calling it something else doesnt eliminate the flamable vapors that come with the fuel in the tank of any vehicle you pull in there.  Unless your inspector was willing to give you a written vaiver of that clause in the code book it would still be against code.  And no inspector will take on that liability.


I agree he likely would not issue a written waiver, but he would sign it off as a permitted and passed installation.  The question came up at the time because a coworker was installing a very old stove in his shop (it was a pole barn).  I told him it may not pass because the stove did not meet current standards.  It passed with no issues.  The inspector passed it, the insurance company accepted the permit paperwork.  I was surprised and asked our inspector about it, he gave me the above response.


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## bholler

electrathon said:


> I agree he likely would not issue a written waiver, but he would sign it off as a permitted and passed installation.  The question came up at the time because a coworker was installing a very old stove in his shop (it was a pole barn).  I told him it may not pass because the stove did not meet current standards.  It passed with no issues.  The inspector passed it, the insurance company accepted the permit paperwork.  I was surprised and asked our inspector about it, he gave me the above response.


Yes but just because he signed off on it doesnt mean it meets code or that he is liable in any way.  And just because the insurance company accepted it doesnt mean they will honor a claim.


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## Ashful

Unless you run a business out of your home garage or shop, I suspect you can find better ways to heat it.  Stoves have numerous problems in this application, even beyond the obvious safety issues.

I have an attached 625 sq.ft. (2-car) garage, and a detached 1500 sq.ft. shop with three bay doors.  These are the solutions I found most useful and economical:

The attached garage is used for parking and we have refrigerators and a freezer out there, and is equipped with a direct-vent propane heater.  Since we’re driving at least one of the cars parked in there at least 5 days of every week, it just naturally stays above 45F all winter, excepting the week during the Christmas holiday.  During that week, and sometimes when the temps dip real low (below 0F, for us), we turn on the propane heater.  Otherwise, heat coming off the parked cars just keeps it warm enough out there.

The detached shop has a mini-split system with 2 indoor units, and auto-changeover thermostats on each unit.  I keep the thermostats set at 80F cooling and 55F heating, so it’s in that temperature range (and most importantly... dry) out there all year.  I bump the cooling down near 70F when I’m out there working in summer (evenings/weekends), and I might bump the heating up to 65F when I’m out there in the winter, but it’s damn near free to run that system most of the year.

I will never again own a work shop without air conditioning, it’s where I go to hide when our outdoor heat index is over 100F during our regular heat waves from mid-June thru mid-August.


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## Pertzbro

I have an insured who uses and Englander Furnace - 28-4000 to heat his very large shop. It does not hold vehicles but it is a wood shop that he makes furniture and cabinetry. He uses flammable varnish in his business. He uses a straight up through the roof not bends or elbows and it's triple wall pipe. 

Insurance company is ok with it. It's in rural iowa outside of all local juristictions (outside of the county authorities)


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## Manly

I am in the process of building a detached 2 car garage in my yard. When the inspector came out to check the slab forms prior to pouring, I asked him if there were any situations where a wood pellet stove installation would be allowed to heat a garage. To my surprise he said “Sure, pellet and wood stoves are installed all the time. Just have to be sure combustion chamber is 18” above the floor”. He likened it to a utility outlet in a garage, 18” above the floor. I was a bit surprised at his response and his inference that this is common in our town. I haven’t checked with the insurance company yet but would think many do approve if they are common and allowed by the town. If all falls into place a small pellet stove is my best solution for heating this garage.


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## Highbeam

Manly said:


> I am in the process of building a detached 2 car garage in my yard. When the inspector came out to check the slab forms prior to pouring, I asked him if there were any situations where a wood pellet stove installation would be allowed to heat a garage. To my surprise he said “Sure, pellet and wood stoves are installed all the time. Just have to be sure combustion chamber is 18” above the floor”. He likened it to a utility outlet in a garage, 18” above the floor. I was a bit surprised at his response and his inference that this is common in our town. I haven’t checked with the insurance company yet but would think many do approve if they are common and allowed by the town. If all falls into place a small pellet stove is my best solution for heating this garage.



Was burning my legal, permitted, code compliant, inspected, stove in my shop today. My shop has overhead roll up doors and vehicles in it because it’s a shop.


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> Was burning my legal, permitted, code compliant, inspected, stove in my shop today. My shop has overhead roll up doors and vehicles in it because it’s a shop.


Just because it passed an inspection doesnt mean it is compliant.  Even if you call it a shop with vehicles in it your install does not comply with 12.2.3. Just because your inspector doesnt know the code doesnt mean it doesnt apply.  It also doesnt mean your insurance companies lawyers wont find the violation if you ever make a claim.


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## Highbeam

bholler said:


> Just because it passed an inspection doesnt mean it is compliant.  Even if you call it a shop with vehicles in it your install does not comply with 12.2.3. Just because your inspector doesnt know the code doesnt mean it doesnt apply.  It also doesnt mean your insurance companies lawyers wont find the violation if you ever make a claim.



I got a permit, passed an inspection, got my insurance company’s approval and am happy with my stove in the shop.

Some random guy on the internet with a different opinion is not enough to overcome the actual experts with actual authority that authorized my shop stove.

Don’t succumb to fear. In all of the many years that I’ve been on this forum I’ve never heard of a shop stove causing a claim to be denied.

When a regular guy gets permission from all of the important people I don’t know what else can be expected. I suppose you have every right to your opinion but you can surely see why people would think other wise?


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> I got a permit, passed an inspection, got my insurance company’s approval and am happy with my stove in the shop.
> 
> Some random guy on the internet with a different opinion is not enough to overcome the actual experts with actual authority that authorized my shop stove.
> 
> Don’t succumb to fear. In all of the many years that I’ve been on this forum I’ve never heard of a shop stove causing a claim to be denied.


I have testified in court as an expert witness on one where the claim was denied.  But obviously you know allot more than any of us.  Just because you havnt heard about it on the internet really has very little bearing on how things happen in the real world.


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> I got a permit, passed an inspection, got my insurance company’s approval and am happy with my stove in the shop.
> 
> Some random guy on the internet with a different opinion is not enough to overcome the actual experts with actual authority that authorized my shop stove.
> 
> Don’t succumb to fear. In all of the many years that I’ve been on this forum I’ve never heard of a shop stove causing a claim to be denied.
> 
> When a regular guy gets permission from all of the important people I don’t know what else can be expected. I suppose you have every right to your opinion but you can surely see why people would think other wise?


Did you read the code?  If you have how can you possibly think your install is compliant?


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## Highbeam

bholler said:


> Did you read the code?  If you have how can you possibly think your install is compliant?




Since you asked, the code says garage and not shop. Also, my permit and inspection were approved. My insurance inspection was also approved. Why would anybody think that a shop stove was not fully permissible? Especially after getting permission from the authority having jurisdiction. 

You might think you’re right but in real life, it’s actually allowed. 

Look, you have an opinion and you’re free to not have a shop stove but in my case, and apparently most cases, it was permitted by the people that matter. 

Maybe you should run for president?


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> Since you asked, the code says garage and not shop. Also, my permit and inspection were approved. My insurance inspection was also approved. Why would anybody think that a shop stove was not fully permissible? Especially after getting permission from the authority having jurisdiction.
> 
> You might think you’re right but in real life, it’s actually allowed.
> 
> Look, you have an opinion and you’re free to not have a shop stove but in my case, and apparently most cases, it was permitted by the people that matter.
> 
> Maybe you should run for president?


So there is no gasoline or other flammable vapors are present in your shop???   You clearly didnt read the whole code.  

And again non compliant stuff passes inspections all the time that doesnt mean they meet code just that they passed inspection.

And as i said i have a stove in my garage.  I know it is not compliant and i would not even file an insurance claim if something happened because i know it would not be covered.


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## MAD MARK

I have a stove in my garage where I also park cars.
It is above the 18" required for Farmers insurance.
It passed local ordinance (inspection).
I live near Pittsburgh Pa.
I have done things to be safe (stove reqs).
I dont store gas, but have plenty of lacquer, spray paint, acetone, propane etc etc.

I also feel that sometimes the posted speed limit is BS and am comfortable with my conscience going 5-10 over...


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## bholler

MAD MARK said:


> I have a stove in my garage where I also park cars.
> It is above the 18" required for Farmers insurance.
> It passed local ordinance (inspection).
> I live near Pittsburgh Pa.
> I have done things to be safe (stove reqs).
> I dont store gas, but have plenty of lacquer, spray paint, acetone, propane etc etc.
> 
> I also feel that sometimes the posted speed limit is BS and am comfortable with my conscience going 5-10 over...


Mine is raised as well.  I feel it is safe but it that doesnt mean it passes code.


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## showrguy

This is funn reading, I'm getting ready to break code as well, my insurance agent says no problem as long as I store flammables outdoors during stove time, but I understand bholler's code of ethics as well !!


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## bholler

showrguy said:


> This is funn reading, I'm getting ready to break code as well, my insurance agent says no problem as long as I store flammables outdoors during stove time, but I understand bholler's code of ethics as well !!


I will even install them in garages.  Infact i did one today.  But i make it very clear to the customer and have them sign a disclaimer that it does not meet code and could cause insurance problems.  I am not against doing it as long as the person knows the risks involved.


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## firefighterjake

No dog in this debate so to speak, but some random thoughts . . .

The code is often black and white . . . but we live in a gray world . . . oftentimes it comes down to a fire inspector either not enforcing certain aspects of the code or not knowing certain aspects of the code. It's a common complaint of businesses where one year an inspector will cite them for a certain violation and the next year a different inspector (or sometimes the same inspector) will not cite them for the same violation, but will list out other violations. It often comes down to the human element.

Similar situation, but different: My wife and her ex-husband owned an apartment building here in Maine years ago. They were told by the town and town inspector that they could install trailer oil furnaces (i.e. Miller furnaces) in the apartment building. Passed inspection with no issues. Tenant's boyfriend ended up burning the place down -- smoking or cooking, I forget which. State inspectors came in and fined them for the use of the furnaces as they were not allowed . . .


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## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> Since you asked, the code says garage and not shop.


So, if I call my garage a “shop”, maybe hang some peg board out there, that changes everything?


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## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> So, if I call my garage a “shop”, maybe hang some peg board out there, that changes everything?



No pegboard necessary. That stuff is a crazy fire hazard!

Much more logical to hang chains in the wall and call it your kinky circus room. 

The permit and approved inspection are part of the permanent record. Some future insurance inspector might tell me to remove it, maybe even tell me to remove my house stove, you just never know but today I have unanimous agreement to burn baby burn in my shop building.


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## AlbergSteve

CSA B365
Installation Code for Solid-Fuel-Burning Appliances and Equipment.
The section that deals with solid-fuel appliances in residential
garages can be found under section 3.3 Hazardous Locations.
The wording reads as follows:

An appliance shall not be installed in a location where a corrosive
atmosphere, flammable gas or vapour, combustible dust, or combustible
fibres may be present. An appliance may be installed in a
(a) storage or residential garage, provided that the appliance is
mounted at least 450 mm (18 in) above floor level and protected
against physical damage; . . .

Canadian code is pretty wishy washy, which makes it open to interpretation, but does include flammable dust and fibre whereas the NPF doesn't. So technically, you could install one(sentence 2) in a shop or garage as long as you meet the requirements of sentence 1


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## bholler

AlbergSteve said:


> CSA B365
> Installation Code for Solid-Fuel-Burning Appliances and Equipment.
> The section that deals with solid-fuel appliances in residential
> garages can be found under section 3.3 Hazardous Locations.
> The wording reads as follows:
> 
> An appliance shall not be installed in a location where a corrosive
> atmosphere, flammable gas or vapour, combustible dust, or combustible
> fibres may be present. An appliance may be installed in a
> (a) storage or residential garage, provided that the appliance is
> mounted at least 450 mm (18 in) above floor level and protected
> against physical damage; . . .
> 
> Canadian code is pretty wishy washy, which makes it open to interpretation, but does include flammable dust and fibre whereas the NPF doesn't. So technically, you could install one(sentence 2) in a shop or garage as long as you meet the requirements of sentence 1


Yes in canada here it is very clear not in garages or where gasoline or other flammable vapors are.


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> No pegboard necessary. That stuff is a crazy fire hazard!
> 
> Much more logical to hang chains in the wall and call it your kinky circus room.
> 
> The permit and approved inspection are part of the permanent record. Some future insurance inspector might tell me to remove it, maybe even tell me to remove my house stove, you just never know but today I have unanimous agreement to burn baby burn in my shop building.


But not from the actual code and without an official written waiver it doesnt meet code.  Signed inspection report or not.  I really dont care if you or anyone else has a stove in there garage.  I just want to make sure everyone reading this understands that it absolutly does not meet code in the US no matter how many times you claim it does.  If they understand that and choose to do it anyway as i and many other do that is up to them.


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## Highbeam

So who do I believe? Some random guy on the Internet or all of the actual code interpreting experts and authorities having actual jurisdiction in my county?

Sometimes we have to see past our opinion and think about how the rest of this country operates.

In real life, lots of shops have stoves. Good thing I don’t have a garage!


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> So who do I believe? Some random guy on the Internet or all of the actual code interpreting experts and authorities having actual jurisdiction in my county?
> 
> Sometimes we have to see past our opinion and think about how the rest of this country operates.
> 
> In real life, lots of shops have stoves. Good thing I don’t have a garage!


You should beleive the code book not me or your inspector.  This is not my opinion.  It is code and it is clealy stated.  You have vehicles in it.  Those vehicles have fuel in them that create flammable vapors.  And you clearly cannot have a wood stove installed in that environment according to code.

Yes in real life lots of shops and garages have stoves.  There are also lots of slammers being used lots of unlined chimneys being used and all kinds of other code violations.  That doesnt mean they are not violations.


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## Highbeam

bholler said:


> You should beleive the code book not me or your inspector.  This is not my opinion.  It is code and it is clealy stated.  You have vehicles in it.  Those vehicles have fuel in them that create flammable vapors.  And you clearly cannot have a wood stove installed in that environment according to code.



Again, that’s your opinion. The actual code interpreters have made a different decision in many cases including mine.

 I think it is obvious that there is bholler’s opinion and then then there is the opinion of the ahj. Sometimes they’re the same but not always.


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## Highbeam

How about this? 

While a stove in a building that also may contain vehicles may be against the fire code, the authority having jurisdiction will often permit the installation. Your insurance company may also be fully aware and allow it. However, when you go to file a claim for damages with your insurance company you should be aware that the insurance company lawyers may choose to reinterpret the code differently to avoid paying you. 

Seriously, that’s the truth.


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> Again, that’s your opinion. The actual code interpreters have made a different decision in many cases including mine.
> 
> I think it is obvious that there is bholler’s opinion and then then there is the opinion of the ahj. Sometimes they’re the same but not always.


Again it is not my opinion it is code.  The ahj's opinion doesnt matter any more than mine.  What matters is code and code doesnt allow it no matter what you call your building.


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> How about this?
> 
> While a stove in a building that also may contain vehicles may be against the fire code, the authority having jurisdiction will often permit the installation. Your insurance company may also be fully aware and allow it. However, when you go to file a claim for damages with your insurance company you should be aware that the insurance company lawyers may choose to reinterpret the code differently to avoid paying you.
> 
> Seriously, that’s the truth.


Yes i know that is the truth.  I dont dissagree with it other than your claim that the lawyers are reinterpreting the code.  They are just following code unlike the ahj or insurance agent.


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## Highbeam

bholler said:


> The ahj's opinion doesnt matter any more than mine.



Really? Some rando on the internet or the actual permitting authority. Pretty much the same eh?


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## bholler

Highbeam said:


> Really? You’re going to stick with that one? Who do you think you are?


Ok i didnt word that very well.  Their opinion doesnt matter and neither does mine.  What matters is code.  Yes in some cases there is some room for interpretation.  But not in this case it is very clear if there is gasoline or other flamable vapors present no stove.


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## bholler

And this thread has run its course.


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