# Burned out Control Board Mnt. Vernon AE



## CJS (Nov 8, 2013)

Hi All:

Have enjoyed this forum for years as a silent partner. 

Original owner of MVAE.  The stove was installed in 2007 the control board upgraded a year or 2 later 7000-456 REV C.  Like everyone on this board I've had to go through trouble shooting exercises replacing various igniters etc. but overall have been very happy with this stove.

Got the call from the Wife yesterday chemical smell coming from stove when it started.  I knew right away that it was probably that all to familiar phenolic compound of a control board was probably the culprit and yes removed the control board and found the AC input which is near the igniter switch was fried, so bad that the connector is melted together.  Fuse still good.

My concern is what would cause this to fry?  I do not want to replace the board and have the same thing happen. Could it have been a loose connection or do I need to trace back to some other issue?  The trouble shooting manual is of no help.

Thank you, CJ


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## stoveguy13 (Nov 8, 2013)

i would say it is the ignitor shorting out the they have upgrade the wiring harness and have add two fuse to the wiring harness that go in line to the ignitor to prevent this. the ignitor is most likely installed so it is making contact with the fire pot


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## CJS (Nov 8, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> i would say it is the ignitor shorting out the they have upgrade the wiring harness and have add two fuse to the wiring harness that go in line to the ignitor to prevent this. the ignitor is most likely installed so it is making contact with the fire pot


 
Thanks so much for the quick response.  I bet this might be the cause, although the board was upgraded have been going through igniters at the same rate.  Do you know if there was there a recall for this?  Wouldn't the wiring harness been updated when the board was originally upgraded?


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## stoveguy13 (Nov 8, 2013)

no re-call just a running change to the unit started showing up sometime last year during the season the  ignitor leads can be changed by them self it component has it on wiring check with your dealer they can most likely order the part for you


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## joescho (Nov 8, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> no re-call just a running change to the unit started showing up sometime last year during the season the  ignitor leads can be changed by them self it component has it on wiring check with your dealer they can most likely order the part for you


 
These fueses are in-line between the control board and the connectors for the igniter, or are they part of the wiring of a new ignitor? If they are between the control board and the connectors for the igniter, I guess I'm following them back to the board to see if I have the in-line fuses.

I have a 2011 MV...

That's really good information, Thanks.....


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## stoveguy13 (Nov 8, 2013)

if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012


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## joescho (Nov 8, 2013)

stoveguy13 said:


> if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012


 
thanks..  If I read your previous post correctly it looks like I  can get them and retro-fit.  That looks like a good idea to do.

CJS if you come up with a part number for the wiring I would be interested.

EDIT: Part #  SRV7034-273


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## hooter04 (Nov 8, 2013)

Had the same thing happen on my 2007 mt vernon,and it was caused by a bad ignitor.I installed the new wiring harness with the inline fuses so hopefully this will never happen ahain


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## stoveguy13 (Nov 8, 2013)

joescho said:


> if you look at the right side of your stove where the ignitor leads come out from inside the stove they should be right there they did not go in till 2012 thanks.. If I read your previous post correctly it looks like I can get them and retro-fit. That looks like a good idea to do. CJS if you come up with a part number for the wiring I would be interested. EDIT: Part # SRV7034-273


 YES no problem with retro fit


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## Madcodger (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks for info and part #.  Have 2010 MVAE and will likely retrofit to protect board.  I'm convinced the AE is a product that's great in concept but that Quad simply lacked adequate engineering talent in a key area or two as they designed it.  Their execution with the thermostat is just awful, but I still like the stove.  Just wish I could mod it some to make up for its shortcomings.


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## hooter04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Just out of curiosity,Was it a 300 watt ignitor,or the standard 500 watt ignitor that shorted out?Mine was the standard 500 watt that shi$%^ the bed. I also plan to put the newer wiring harness on my 2009 MvAe stove,that has a 300 watt ignitor in it.


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## Madcodger (Nov 9, 2013)

hooter04 said:


> Just out of curiosity,Was it a 300 watt ignitor,or the standard 500 watt ignitor that shorted out?Mine was the standard 500 watt that shi$%^ the bed. I also plan to put the newer wiring harness on my 2009 MvAe stove,that has a 300 watt ignitor in it.


For me, was original higher wattage ignitor that went.  Didn't short but rather burned out, an issue w/ AE due to frequency of autoclean cycle.  However, dealer mentioned that shorts are common after replacement due to way Quad runs the wiring in these stoves and failure of homeowners to route wires properly (not saying OP did that - just repeating dealer comments).  It's not a great design nor made to be easy.  I replaced with lower watt ignitor without any issues using good quality pellets.  Suspect higher watt needed only for alternate fuels.


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## hooter04 (Nov 9, 2013)

Yes higher watt is only for alternate fuels.My wiring was routed to spec,no shorting in wires,made me believe it was an internal failure within the ignitor.


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## CJS (Nov 9, 2013)

hooter04 said:


> Yes higher watt is only for alternate fuels.My wiring was routed to spec,no shorting in wires,made me believe it was an internal failure within the igniter.


 Since I've gone through about 10 igniters I do believe it was the 300 watt version.  I have burned nothing but premium HW pellets in the stove.  I agree great concept but lousy engineering.  What concerns me is the stove would have kept running if I didn't have the wife shut it off.  It actually restarted when I turned it back on to see where the problem was.  If it wasn't for this forum I would not have known about the wiring upgrade.  Based on feedback from my dealer I have written a cause for concern letter to Quad-fire explaining the situation.  The dealer is also doing the same, they had no idea there was a newly designed harness.  Honestly I am a bit concerned about firing it back up even with the new harness.  Not sure if related or not but late in the season last year I had an igniter go bad, then the TC and then another igniter perhaps this was the beginning of the issue?  I think this is a serious safety issue and everyone who owns this model should be made aware of the new harness.


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## Madcodger (Nov 10, 2013)

Wow!  Yeah, that looks like a Consumer Products Safety Commission issue.  That might be the place to send those photos.  Look like a recall should be made by Quad, supplying new harness to all for free.


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## hooter04 (Nov 10, 2013)

yes  I also had to replace the thermocouple.My dealer gave me the control board and had me sign invoice,said he would contact tech @ hht and get  back to me.Needless to say the board didn't cost me a dime.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 10, 2013)

CJS said:


> Since I've gone through about 10 igniters I do believe it was the 300 watt version.  I have burned nothing but premium HW pellets in the stove.  I agree great concept but lousy engineering.  What concerns me is the stove would have kept running if I didn't have the wife shut it off.  It actually restarted when I turned it back on to see where the problem was.  If it wasn't for this forum I would not have known about the wiring upgrade.  Based on feedback from my dealer I have written a cause for concern letter to Quad-fire explaining the situation.  The dealer is also doing the same, they had no idea there was a newly designed harness.  Honestly I am a bit concerned about firing it back up even with the new harness.  Not sure if related or not but late in the season last year I had an igniter go bad, then the TC and then another igniter perhaps this was the beginning of the issue?  I think this is a serious safety issue and everyone who owns this model should be made aware of the new harness.


The type of damage shown in the photographs is not typical of a sudden massive overload. The connector likely overheated due to prolonged over-dissipation at the contacts. That can be caused by either higher current than the contact is designed for or by insufficient contact pressure. What governs the maximum load the contacts can handle is how hot they run (ie. will the plastic melt). If they run very hot for a long time, the contacts lose their springiness, and therefore, their contact pressure.
I don't know the specific contact and connector body used, but they look robust enough to handle the 500W heater for the intermittent duty that they see. 
The new harness will protect against sudden catastrophic failure of the heater, but I am not sure that it will protect against the connector failure pictured.
That being said, I just ordered the new harness for my MVAE. 
The $29 I paid for it is a reasonable price to protect a $590 control boardI


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## hooter04 (Nov 10, 2013)

Harvey your terminology is correct,but here's what happened to me.I put new board in without changing ignitor,and it started to burnout the board,matter of fact it did,had to have a friend fix the ribbon that burned.So it was not a loose comnection,but a bad ignitor in my case.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 10, 2013)

hooter04 said:


> Harvey your terminology is correct,but here's what happened to me.I put new board in without changing ignitor,and it started to burnout the board,matter of fact it did,had to have a friend fix the ribbon that burned.So it was not a loose comnection,but a bad ignitor in my case.


I can understand it burning the trace off the circuit board, that's just a thin copper trace. It acts like a high current fuse. What doesn't make sense to me is melting the plastic connector body.


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## hooter04 (Nov 11, 2013)

yes that is very strange,like a loose connection@ the board.Is it possible the power could back feed because the circut is broken within the ignitor?


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 11, 2013)

hooter04 said:


> yes that is very strange,like a loose connection@ the board.Is it possible the power could back feed because the circut is broken within the ignitor?


No, not feedback. That can only happen with reactive components that store electrical energy like inductors. Ignitors are simply resistors that dissipate electrical energy as heat.
Sounds like a loose connection. It could be contact pressure or it could be a cracked solder joint or a bad crimp on the cable. Judging by the burn I see in the photo, I think it was on the circuit board side that the heat was generated although a bad crimp cannot be ruled out.


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## hooter04 (Nov 11, 2013)

So with this new wiring harness with inline fuses, may or may not completely solve the problem.I guess I'll just have to wait and see.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 11, 2013)

hooter04 said:


> So with this new wiring harness with inline fuses, may or may not completely solve the problem.I guess I'll just have to wait and see.


I'm in the same boat. I have committed to the new harness, but I am still skeptical.
The original design has a fuse on the hot leg of the AC. That should be sufficient. It makes no sense in fusing both sides unless the input hot and neutral lines are reversed. House wiring has been known to be screwed up, especially if somebody added a circuit for the stove.


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## CJS (Nov 16, 2013)

Hi everyone - It took an email and then a phone call but Quad-fire is standing behind their product and sent me a new control board, upgraded wire harness and igniter, must assume the igniter is what went.  Got everything installed and apparently I should have asked for a new 110v power lead which comes from the power block I assumed I would of received a new one with the board.  I was hoping I could get the old one apart but no go that thing welded it self together with the board. So unfortunately will need to see if the dealer has one otherwise I'll need to wait a few more days for Quad to send a new one out.  Will let you know how it goes.  Good thing it is going to be a little warmer. 

Cheers,

CJ


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## CJS (Nov 17, 2013)

Hoping anyone confirm the part # for the power cord which I am looking for?  It runs from the power supply unit to the control board AC current ... I believe it to be 7034-220. 

Thanks


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## SwineFlue (Nov 17, 2013)

CJS said:


> Hoping anyone confirm the part # for the power cord which I am looking for?  It runs from the power supply unit to the control board AC current ... I believe it to be 7034-220.
> 
> Thanks


That looks like the right one:





It's from the  Mt Vernon-AE  Troubleshooting Manual.  To download it, see this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ble-trouble-shoot-manual.105258/#post-1367024


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## CJS (Dec 11, 2013)

Hi All:   Been remiss in responding.  Anyway received the new wire 7034-220 and installed, plugged in the stove and boom ... nothing.. completely dead.  After brief phone call with quad-fire figured I would double check the fuse in the power supply. I did check previously and noticed it looked a bit thicker in the middle but when I checked with ohm meter it was ok.  Anyway when removed I noticed the fuse clamp was stretched and the fuse was extremely loose in the holder (probably from me not aligning correctly the first time I replaced).  Tightened the clamp reinstalled power supply and voila fire!   Been running like a champ for 4 weeks now.

One thing I will state is Quad-fire stood behind their product.   Hopefully after this fix the only maintenance will be cleaning and  the occasional igniter replacement ... though Quad seems pretty confident that the newest board will extend the igniter life ... time will tell.

Cheers

CJ


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## ESF (Mar 11, 2015)

Just bought an AE insert in Oct 2014 fuses in place for ignitor, woke up this morning to a melting circuit board that appears to have started at the ignitor plug. The stove was still running and I even used the wall control to shut it down before unplugging. Glad the cat woke me up when it happened at 3:30AM.  Tech is going to come look at it today, should be covered by warranty I hope. It does make me nervous going forward. I have really enjoyed the stove this winter, liked it better than my Harman P68 that's in the basement. I hope this is a one time issue that gets resolved quickly or I may regret not going with the Accentra.


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## Wilbur Feral (Mar 12, 2015)

Very sorry to hear about your stove, and hope warranty covers all.  When they figure out what's wrong, please do report back.  It could help many here know what to look for in their stove.  Very troubling that this happened on a newer MVAE, with the fuses.


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## ESF (Mar 12, 2015)

Very impressed with the quick response of my stove shop, "Maine Stove and Chimney" They replaced the board, power supply, blower, and a bunch of wires all the day after the incident at no cost to me. I'm still a bit concerned about why it happened and about it not happening again. I'll pass along any info I'm able to get from their investigation.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 12, 2015)

That is impressive service in-season.


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## kappel15 (Mar 12, 2015)

hooter04 said:


> Just out of curiosity,Was it a 300 watt ignitor,or the standard 500 watt ignitor that shorted out?Mine was the standard 500 watt that shi$%^ the bed. I also plan to put the newer wiring harness on my 2009 MvAe stove,that has a 300 watt ignitor in it.


The new igniter is a 300 watt. The old style is 380. watt. No 500 watts. kap


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## kappel15 (Mar 12, 2015)

The new wire harness for the igniter is mainly for ease of access to a blown fuse that is in line in the new harness. Otherwise, it is removing and taking apart the control board to get at the fuse there. A side affect may also be to keep a short from toasting the board. kap


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## Lake Girl (Mar 13, 2015)

Thought I read some of the posts on all the MVE2 getting replacement boards.  Bad series of boards being used ?


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## kappel15 (Mar 13, 2015)

Trying to fix the exploding glass issue.


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## CJS (Mar 13, 2015)

Looks like the same spot where my board failed 2 years ago although looks like it got much hotter probably b/c it was plugged in longer confirming my concern that the stove does not shut down from this.

While I am here might as well state that my stove has been running like a champ and knock on wood using the same igniter I replaced in Nov. 2013 which is quite a good run considering I went through them at least once a year.

Anyone using a surge protector I hear this is a must have for the stove?

BTW Easy Heat pellets are terrible.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 13, 2015)

CJS said:


> Anyone using a surge protector I hear this is a must have for the stove?



Everyone should use a surge protector ... many use a ups ... Tripplite is a brand I've seen.  A search using the box upper right should give you some ideas.


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## Harvey Schneider (Mar 13, 2015)

CJS said:


> Looks like the same spot where my board failed 2 years ago although looks like it got much hotter probably b/c it was plugged in longer confirming my concern that the stove does not shut down from this.
> 
> While I am here might as well state that my stove has been running like a champ and knock on wood using the same igniter I replaced in Nov. 2013 which is quite a good run considering I went through them at least once a year.
> 
> ...


I have been using the Tripplite Iso Bar. It is solidly built and has a good reputation. 
Regarding the igniter failures, Some of the stories make it sound like the line and neutral were reversed on the line feed to the stove. No proof, just from the descriptions of the damage incurred. Then Quad introduced a harness with a fuse on each leg of the igniter. That would make no sense unless one were trying to protect against a fault to ground from the neutral leg of the AC. 
For the $30 the harness cost, I considered it a cheap insurance policy (you know, insurance is a bet that you hope to lose). I know my circuit is wired properly but sometimes weird things happen. A plug in line tester for about $5 will verify that the AC is wired correctly.
I'm surprised that you went through so many igniters. My first one went bad at about 3 months, it was the high wattage version (380W) and the second one (300W version) is still going since the beginning of 2012.


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## smwilliamson (Mar 13, 2015)

And those control boards are only $800 no biggie, power supplies are $450. Outta control


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## smwilliamson (Mar 13, 2015)

Stupidest design of those AE stoves is using a solid core wire from the thermocouples to unnsoldered nickel pcb pins. The wire has memory and pulls on the molex causing the pins to lift right off the board. A .14 cent item that causes havoc and hundreds and hundreds of dollars to fix after an inexperienced tech poked around looking for something to jump out at him.


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## Caribfan (Mar 14, 2015)

ESF said:


> Very impressed with the quick response of my stove shop, "Maine Stove and Chimney" They replaced the board, power supply, blower, and a bunch of wires all the day after the incident at no cost to me. I'm still a bit concerned about why it happened and about it not happening again. I'll pass along any info I'm able to get from their investigation.


 I bought my MVAE from them a couple of years ago and although I haven't had to call upon them for service yet (knock on wood), I am not at all surprised to read about their excellent service given the experience I had with their consultation and installation.  I recommend them to all that will listen.


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