# So aggravated with Napoleon



## Ozark Woodburner (Dec 28, 2011)

So I bought a $3000 napoleon furnace this summer.  Installed this fall,  the thing works great WHEN the primary air control doesn't stick!  About every 3 or 4 nights I awake to a cold house and a stove full of wood.  I have taken it off several times to check it out and I think it is binding.  I can tap it or work it up and down and it startes opening.  Then a few days later it sticks again.  

So I email Napoleon and their reply is they haven't had any motor failures to date.  They did give me a few things to check, which I did.
 I replied back that they have had their first motor sticking apparently.    

So now, they ignore me!  Won't get back with me, now I'm stuck operating this $3000 furnace manually!  I guess I'm gonna have to buy a new motor assembly IF I can ever get them to get back with me. 

 I am starting to feel very bitter towards them, do you think its justified?


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## webbie (Dec 28, 2011)

Sure - they sold you something and now you are unhappy and a major part is not functioning.

This type of thing is usually addressed through the retailer you purchased from (the person you gave your money to), but since Napoleon approves of internet sales...they should surely deal direct with you to settle this issue.

Maybe they had a long holiday? I'd try again...


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## Gasifier (Dec 28, 2011)

Ozark Woodburner said:
			
		

> So I bought a $3000 napoleon furnace this summer.  Installed this fall,  the thing works great WHEN the primary air control doesn't stick!  About every 3 or 4 nights I awake to a cold house and a stove full of wood.  I have taken it off several times to check it out and I think it is binding.  I can tap it or work it up and down and it startes opening.  Then a few days later it sticks again.  So I email Napoleon and their reply is they haven't had any motor failures to date.  They did give me a few things to check, which I did.I replied back that they have had their first motor sticking apparently.  So now, they ignore me!  Won't get back with me, now I'm stuck operating this $3000 furnace manually!  I guess I'm gonna have to buy a new motor assymbly IF I can ever get them to get back with me. I am starting to feel very bitter towards them, do you think its justified?



Sounds "justified" to me. Just because they haven't had any motor failures to date, does not mean there is not something wrong with yours! What is the warranty on the unit? If the unit is not working perfectly, and it is brand new, sounds like it is their problem. As well as yours obviously. Keep after them. Don't let up. They need to help you get this thing fixed.


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## Duetech (Dec 28, 2011)

Sometimes the mention of BBB does wonders between customer and seller. Note I said seller because BBB sometimes would rather deal with the seller than the mfg. Had a problem with a GE product one time and BBB said go after the local parts sales people with the complaint even though it was a mfg policy and not the sales people. I mentioned that to the sales people and they took the hit and made good the warranty. I ended up dropping the GE line from my household appliances but if I have a problem with any other appliances in the home I will not hesitate to go to the company who made good on a mfg warranty just to keep the BBB out of their hair. At least that small company and I have an understanding. Wish you the best.


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## bpirger (Dec 28, 2011)

Is this a stand alone furnace with plenum and all, or is it one of there prefab fireplaces?  Eventually I will put a fireplace/stove in the new addition.  Not so much for primary heat, but the ambience, as the wife says, and hence the nice rock surrounded fireplace with doors and all seems a possibility.  Local dealer by me, some look nice...but this sure isn't warming me up to them!


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## Ozark Woodburner (Dec 28, 2011)

It is the stand alone furnace-  HMF150. 

The problem is it is winter time and I gotta have this thing working, I completely understand that things happen and parts break.  But, I would like this to be timely repair so I can get back to heating my home with it.  I have been dealing with this too long I feel.  I'm thinking surely it would be under warranty, but if not I will have to buy a new one so I can heat my home.  I am afraid to even use it when I am at work, what if it sticks open (which it has, but only once)

Anyway, I will try again tommorrow.


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## Ozark Woodburner (Dec 28, 2011)

Bitter is not the right word, aggravated is.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 28, 2011)

Ozark Woodburner said:
			
		

> Bitter is not the right word, aggravated is.


Can you open up the motor? I think binding elsewhere would be obvious to you, Randy


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## maple1 (Dec 28, 2011)

Pic of the offending mechanism?

I know it doesn't take much binding to cause the draft door to not open on my dinosaur.


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## FyreBug (Dec 28, 2011)

Can I ask you guys your opinion? We dont allow our furnaces to be sold on the internet (PSG Caddy line). We tried it for one season but had no end of install headaches since most homeowners are not familiar with plenum (magnahelic, static pressure etc...) and even venting. We have enough issues with some who claim to be professionals.

However, would anyone buy a furnace online if the requirement was the unit was installed by an HVAC/Venting professional and he certified the install? and the MFG had a copy of the certificate before they would honor the warranty.

Just wondering...


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 29, 2011)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> Can I ask you guys your opinion? We dont allow our furnaces to be sold on the internet (PSG Caddy line). We tried it for one season but had no end of install headaches since most homeowners are not familiar with plenum (magnahelic, static pressure etc...) and even venting. We have enough issues with some who claim to be professionals.
> 
> However, would anyone buy a furnace online if the requirement was the unit was installed by an HVAC/Venting professional and he certified the install? and the MFG had a copy of the certificate before they would honor the warranty.
> 
> Just wondering...


Thats a fair question & no I wouldn't. I'm capable of installing most any furnace/boiler & would no way pay out $125.00? an hour to hook one up. I understand your concerns over a lot of hacks out there, wouldn't be my problem though, Randy


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## woodsmaster (Dec 29, 2011)

I agree with randy If I can't install it myself I'd buy somthing different. I do understand your concern.


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## laynes69 (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm the same way, if I can't install it myself I won't buy it. Around here every hvac company won't touch or service wood burning furnaces. After being burned for 400.00 from a local hvac company I have done all my maintenance and repair of our central furnace as well as installed a full duct system in our home. I do not trust the "pro's" seen too many people burned and garbage work from it. I see it from both sides.


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## bpirger (Dec 29, 2011)

I wouldn't buy it either....or if I did, I'd do the install anyways.  When I started building my house, nobody in the area new a thing about radiant heat.  I found the company that seemed to know the most and hired them to install the Buderus oil burner and some of the near boiler plumbing.  Two guys there seemed to understand what they were doing, they asked me if I wanted a job as a radiant designer.   When I installed the Garn, I installed the Garn.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  Though my wife might beg to differ.  As I tell her, she can pay the difference, and pay the extra to get them to do it "right".  I see a lot of skimping....not everyone has a local heaterman!

But I certainly understand your concerns....what can be more frustrating from your point of view then dealing with a hack!


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 29, 2011)

Ozark Woodburner said:
			
		

> So I email Napoleon and *their reply is they haven't had any motor failures to date*.  They did give me a few things to check, which I did.
> I replied back that they have had their first motor sticking apparently.



Any seller of ANY product, that responds that way is either

1)Unaware of how to please customers, or
2)Doesn't care if customers are satisfied, or
3)Has something to hide.

While you may want to continue attempting to get help from the manufacturer and/or retailer accept the fact that you are probably going to be on your own fixing it. The fact is, you'll prolly do a better job in the end.

Hang in there.


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## Chris Hoskin (Dec 29, 2011)

maybe I missed it, but did you buy the furnace from a local dealer, or from Napoleon directly?  Who did the installation?


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## Ozark Woodburner (Dec 29, 2011)

Update:  The place that I bought it from is working on this on my behalf I guess.  Still cannot get napoleon to answer me.  

This is napoleons one and only reply to me-



> We have not had any motor failure on the air shutter assembly to date. Please ensure the support bracket behind the shutter is holding it vertical but still allowing the shutter to slide freely. Also ensure that there are no burrs or nicks on the shutter. Sometimes if they are worked up and down with the manual override lever they will begin to slide smoothly.



No check back if this doesn't fix it or anything.  And now they will not get back with me.

I done most of the install myself.  I had a little help from an electrcian and a HVAC guy.  And no, it is not "hacked together" or "cobbled up"


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 5, 2012)

This is the first reply since Dec 23rd from Napoleon-



> A replacement motor can be obtained through your suppier part # W435-0003



Thats all of their reply I waited 12 days for!  I guess that means they want me to just buy the replacement motor?

This group has got to be the absolute worse at customer service I have ever seen in my life!  

Now what do you guys think I should do?


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## Singed Eyebrows (Jan 5, 2012)

Ozark Woodburner said:
			
		

> This is the first reply since Dec 23rd from Napoleon-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, you might try setting the stove on the hood of your car & driving 60 mph toward their showroom... & then slam on the brakes. On a more serious note I would probably take them to small claims court. They have a dealer in your state & consequently a presence there. They should need to defend there. You can do all the complaining to various agencys you want & all you will get is "we don't have the authority to do anything". Small claims is about $60.00, Randy


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## woodsmaster (Jan 5, 2012)

Threaten to call the BBB. If they don't respond accordingly immediately, call them. You will most likely get a call from Napoleon
wanting to make it right as soon as the BBB contacts them so there grade don't get lowered. I've had to resort to this once and had great results (Deferent company). Good Luck.
   J.T.


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## Chris Hoskin (Jan 5, 2012)

why don't you just go to the dealer and get the motor?  I understand the dealer is already aware of the situation (I'm still not sure why the dealer is not resolving this for you) and I would expect that you would be given the motor under warranty.  If the warranty covers labor, then I would expect that the dealer would replace it for you too.  I know you are frustrated by your experience, but why are you talking directly to Napoleon?  You wouldn't call Ford directly if something was wrong with your car, you would go to the local dealer where you bought the car.  Why is this different?  Sign me puzzled and curious.


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## willworkforwood (Jan 5, 2012)

Tarm Sales Guy said:
			
		

> why don't you just go to the dealer and get the motor?  I understand the dealer is already aware of the situation (I'm still not sure why the dealer is not resolving this for you) and I would expect that you would be given the motor under warranty.  If the warranty covers labor, then I would expect that the dealer would replace it for you too.  I know you are frustrated by your experience, but why are you talking directly to Napoleon?  You wouldn't call Ford directly if something was wrong with your car, you would go to the local dealer where you bought the car.  Why is this different?  Sign me puzzled and curious.


+1  That's some good advice right there, and I suspect that it doesn't take a cattle prod to get TSG to replace a bad motor in a new Tarm/Bio  ;-)


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 6, 2012)

The dealer is working on this as well, but according to them Napoleon will have to approve it with a "claim".  I originally emailed Napoleon to find out the process I need to go through, but ran into what i'm in now instead.  My dealer asked me to let him work with this for a while, but I want to do anything I can to get this process going faster, I'm sick of waking up cold in the morning with a couple unburnt logs in the furnace every other night.  After talking with the dealer again today it looks like all I can do is sit back and wait to see if they will warranty it.  I'm sure they are just hoping they can  "wait me out" and I will give in and buy a new motor so it won't cost them anything on warranty.  And once we finally get a good cold snap, this is gonna be a problem not having a fully operational furnace.


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## mikefrommaine (Jan 6, 2012)

I'd email them a link to this thread. Might be surprised at how fast they make good on your warranty.

Unless they are about to go bankrupt, or just don't care.


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 6, 2012)

> or just donâ€™t care



I'd say this is probably the case, at least it feels that way to me.


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## BoilerBob (Jan 7, 2012)

I would be barking at the dealer. If he wants to keep his customers, he should have replaced your motor asap, then deal with napolean himself. He should be on your side if he wants to continue in the stove business. If he has a problem with a manufacturer, he can change who he sells for.


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## huffdawg (Jan 7, 2012)

Would you like me to send you a Vancouver Canucks magnet to stick on it , should fix it right up.     We play your B's   tommorrow morning  .

Huff


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## BoilerBob (Jan 9, 2012)

Huff
Nice game 4-3 Van, we want Luongo!


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## BoilerBob (Jan 27, 2012)

Ozark,
I hope you were able to get this resolved. Did the dealer or manufacturer help you out in the end (warranty)?

   PC


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 28, 2012)

Nope.   Still stuck with a sticking motor and a non working furnace.  The dealer has been very helpful but they cannot force Napoleon to get me a replacement motor.   Napoleon keeps saying they will replace it, but I have called and emailed the dealer and Napoleon dozens of times, and am still waiting.   I even offered to purchase a motor and they could issue me a refund when I send the old one back, but I'm told it wont make this any quicker.  Suppossedly it has been on order this whole time.


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## BoilerBob (Jan 28, 2012)

WOW,
I hope nobody in Alaska buys one of these furnaces. Over one month to get a replacement motor, in the middle of winter. WOW

These motors should be on the shelf, somewhere. Maybe they had to call China to get one made.
It aggravates me, just reading about the (customer service) you are getting.
Hang in there, I hope they wake up soon and help you out.

I was looking at Napolean stoves for the cottage, but not any more.

   PC


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks.   If I could afford it, I'd haul the thing straight to the scrapyard and buy something else but it cost way to much for that.


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## Ozark Woodburner (Dec 31, 2012)

*UPDATE!*

Well, it'll be 2013 in a few hours.  Thought I'd get on here and update you guys.

I seriously hope no one is considered buying one of these HMF150 furnaces.   I *still *do not have a working furnace.   I have contacted a lawyer, not sure what is going to happen with it.  We're very disappointed in Napoleon and the dealer, who is a big well known dealer.

Basically, I was finally sent a replacement motor assembly late in the heating season last year after many problems.   Some of the parts are the same but some are different than the original.   So initially, the unit worked fine after the "upgrade".   But I only used it for a couple weeks since our winter broke very early last year.  

Fast forward to of october this year.  It works fine for 2 nights, then it starts sticking again.  The motor will lock up or something binds preventing the air shutter from opening correctly.   So napoleon says the motor must be rusty, but its not I check it out for them.   So they take my number and say they will work on a fix for me.  After weeks of calling back and getting a the run around from them and the dealer, they finally email me instructions to adjust the "motor".   It was ridiculous!   It included loosening the mounting screws until the lever started to open and even leaving the cover off if needed.  None of this worked more than a half dozen cycles before the shutter started binding again. 

Then after several more weeks of calls and emails and them and the dealer passing the buck, they say they have had a few problems with the shutter opening on some units and they will send me a new back piece to the furnace that should "update the furnace to current specs".   So after a few more weeks, I finally get a back piece of the furnace that encloses the shutter assembly that is bashed all to pieces along the top and one corner.   No way will it bolt to the furnace.  Its scrap metal at this point.   And I see nothing different from my original back plate.   

They emailed me asking for my shipping address and I replied.  The next day I got an email saying they already sent it out to the address I recieved the furnace at.  It was my old work place!    Then I had to go there are ask for my part.  Why bother asking my address? 

So, I am furious.   Now supposedly they are sending another replacement.   IF i ever get it, I will try it out.

I asked for credit on this furnace from the dealer and I would buy something, anything that would work.  They said no. 

This dealer and Napoleon are the most unprofessional folks I have ever dealt with at customer service.   It a shame to, because this furnace is nice when it works.   However, i usually have to operate it manually.


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2013)

That's a shame, it's looks like a very nice furnace with alot of options. It sounds like they changed design of the shutter due to the problems they were having. Maybe they put it out too quickly without proper testing and engineering, who knows. Hopefully things get settled for you.


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## Ozark Woodburner (Jan 1, 2013)

I decided I wanted either this Napoleon or the Max Caddy. If I would have known how this would turn out, I would have gladly paid more for the Caddy. It wasn't but a few hundred more if I remember correctly.

I have thought about selling it if I ever get it lined out but I know I would loose alot on it.  Maybe it will all work out.


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## BoilerBob (Jan 2, 2013)

I feel for ya man!!

It sounds like it was not the motor after all, if it still sticks with new motor.
Hopefully the "new and improved back plate" will fix it. If it dosen't, you are going to have to fix it yourself and forget the dealer. There should be a "jack of all trades" mechanic or machinist in your area that could rig up a slide plate that does not jam up.

Good luck


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## ScotO (Jan 2, 2013)

I have two Napoleon appliances and I can tell you that is the main b*tch I have with them.....their customer service SUCKS.  PERIOD.

They will not deal with the customer at all, they dump it ALL on the dealer.  Our local dealer (I won't mention any names) is a complete ASS.....even worse than the actual company, IMO.

I bought my NZ3000 off of an online dealer and I couldn't be any happier with how they treated me, both on the sale AND when it comes to needing parts.....

Good luck, keep us posted on what happens.


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