# New Harman Stoves Junk???



## ejsechler (May 20, 2016)

So i was doing some window shopping today because i am wanting to buy a new pellet stove before winter. So i walked into my local stove dealer and asked him some questions about what suits my needs. He recommended a Avalon AGP insert. I then went ahead and asked him about  harman stoves. He went through this big long story on how the newer harman stoves are junk, because the company switch owners changed parts  etc etc. I was wondering what your take was on this? Also the Avalon AGP that he recommended was for 2000sqft my home is 2900sqft open floor plan. He then went on to say it also is going to depend on your insulation which is completely understandable. My house is less the 20 years old so it is pretty well insulated. I was originally thinking about harman but now i really dont know anymore. Please help. Any insight and knowledge would be grateful.


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## Tonyray (May 20, 2016)

ejsechler said:


> So i was doing some window shopping today because i am wanting to buy a new pellet stove before winter. So i walked into my local stove dealer and asked him some questions about what suits my needs. He recommended a Avalon AGP insert. I then went ahead and asked him about  harman stoves. He went through this big long story on how the newer harman stoves are junk, because the company switch owners changed parts  etc etc. I was wondering what your take was on this? Also the Avalon AGP that he recommended was for 2000sqft my home is 2900sqft open floor plan. He then went on to say it also is going to depend on your insulation which is completely understandable. My house is less the 20 years old so it is pretty well insulated. I was originally thinking about harman but now i really dont know anymore. Please help. Any insight and knowledge would be grateful.


my Harman is 3 yrs old.... if it's junk It performs exceptionally well...
I don't know anything about who owns Harman but I doubt that they are anything less than top of the line then and now.
Am sure others will chime in and more or less 99% Positive..
Harmans are Not cheap for a reason..


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## ejsechler (May 20, 2016)

Tonyray said:


> my Harman is 3 yrs old.... if it's junk It performs exceptionally well...
> I don't know anything about who owns Harman but I doubt that they are anything less than top of the line then and now.
> Am sure others will chime in and more or less 99% Positive..
> Harmans are Not cheap for a reason..


Believe me i am wanting to stand right by your side on that, i understand they are not cheap. I have done my research and yes there are some bad things wrote about Harman but the good far out weight the bad. I am looking to buy the best most efficient pellet stove that will heat my home. This is what through me a curve ball when i heard a dealer talk so bad about them.


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## rona (May 20, 2016)

ejsechler said:


> So i was doing some window shopping today because i am wanting to buy a new pellet stove before winter. So i walked into my local stove dealer and asked him some questions about what suits my needs. He recommended a Avalon AGP insert. I then went ahead and asked him about  harman stoves. He went through this big long story on how the newer harman stoves are junk, because the company switch owners changed parts  etc etc. I was wondering what your take was on this? Also the Avalon AGP that he recommended was for 2000sqft my home is 2900sqft open floor plan. He then went on to say it also is going to depend on your insulation which is completely understandable. My house is less the 20 years old so it is pretty well insulated. I was originally thinking about harman but now i really dont know anymore. Please help. Any insight and knowledge would be grateful.


   Before  Harman was bought out they were all manufactured in the USA.  After they were bought out certain models were made elsewhere. Supposedly they were made to Harmans standards but who knows.  The same company owns Quadrafire and when they introduced the AE there was a lot of problems which were blamed on the companies providing parts. The AE was a multi fuel stove and Quadrafire made a similar stove just for pellets. I think this was the one that was prone to breaking the glass when it got hot.  Once again the suppliers were blamed.
   I think the newer Harmans are using a more complicated mother board  which  was supposed to have more conveniences then the older technology and this could be the reason for the dealers idea they were junk. It is entirely possible the new owners cheapened them up using lighter steel, cheaper control boards, cheaper motors, etc.  I thought it was strange they quit producing the PC45 when corn dropped in price.


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## ejsechler (May 20, 2016)

rona said:


> Before  Harman was bought out they were all manufactured in the USA.  After they were bought out certain models were made elsewhere. Supposedly they were made to Harmans standards but who knows.  The same company owns Quadrafire and when they introduced the AE there was a lot of problems which were blamed on the companies providing parts. The AE was a multi fuel stove and Quadrafire made a similar stove just for pellets. I think this was the one that was prone to breaking the glass when it got hot.  Once again the suppliers were blamed.
> I think the newer Harmans are using a more complicated mother board  which  was supposed to have more conveniences then the older technology and this could be the reason for the dealers idea they were junk. It is entirely possible the new owners cheapened them up using lighter steel, cheaper control boards, cheaper motors, etc.  I thought it was strange they quit producing the PC45 when corn dropped in price.


Good to know, but yea that is pretty much what he said,close to it anyways. Ahhh this is going to take me awhile to figure out what to buy. Glad i am starting early.


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## Tonyray (May 20, 2016)

n'


ejsechler said:


> Good to know, but yea that is pretty much what he said,close to it anyways. Ahhh this is going to take me awhile to figure out what to buy. Glad i am starting early.


_I think the newer Harmans are using a more complicated mother board which was supposed to have more conveniences then the older technology_
Harman did come out with 1 and only 1 new model that has new digital and I think wireless technology.
Harman Absolute 43...
jury is out still on this new model...
the other Harman models are pretty much the usual standard types they have always made....
This is the company that Took over Harman production
http://www.hearthnhome.com/Brands


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## Twinturbo6.4 (May 20, 2016)

My 2 year old XXV is a champ! It eats whatever pellets I put in it, never even blinks an eye, has no problem keeping our 2800sf house warm and is a great looking stove compared to some of the junk on the market. I spent many months researching stoves and visiting stove shops and it was an easy decision when it came time to buy!


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## Peterfield (May 20, 2016)

ejsechler said:


> So i was doing some window shopping today because i am wanting to buy a new pellet stove before winter. So i walked into my local stove dealer and asked him some questions about what suits my needs. He recommended a Avalon AGP insert. I then went ahead and asked him about  harman stoves. He went through this big long story on how the newer harman stoves are junk, because the company switch owners changed parts  etc etc. I was wondering what your take was on this? Also the Avalon AGP that he recommended was for 2000sqft my home is 2900sqft open floor plan. He then went on to say it also is going to depend on your insulation which is completely understandable. My house is less the 20 years old so it is pretty well insulated. I was originally thinking about harman but now i really dont know anymore. Please help. Any insight and knowledge would be grateful.



That's called a sales pitch.  I went through the same thing with a non-Harman dealer, almost verbatim from what you were told.   There are folks on this board with Harman stoves and others with stoves other than Harman's and they are happy with their choice.


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## ejsechler (May 20, 2016)

Peterfield said:


> That's called a sales pitch.  I went through the same thing with a non-Harman dealer, almost verbatim from what you were told.   There are folks on this board with Harman stoves and others with stoves other than Harman's and they are happy with their choice.


I mean i understand the whole sales pitch thing, but i was also making sure about what he was saying was at least half the true. I mean this is the 21st century and it is not hard to get to the bottom of things and find out if people are making up bs stories.


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## bags (May 21, 2016)

Opinions are like a**holes. The dealer bad mouthing Harmans is a jack wagon so there is my opinion on him......

I have a "newer" P68 and an older PC45. Not much difference between the two other than about a decade in age. Anyone that complains about a Harman probably should not own a pellet stove. They are about as bullet proof as they come in regards to pellet stoves. Yes new technology scares some. I prefer simple myself. Harman stoves are about as far away from junk as anyone could possibly be. After having two I would not consider any other brand here unless I was looking for a cheaper back up or infrequent use stove. For primary heat it is and would remain a Harman in this house. Period.

I know running around and listening to these "dealers" can be confusing. Dealt with it myself. Some of them are simply snake oil salesmen looking for the uneducated schmucks wearing their rose colored glasses. I met many of them while I was pounding the pavement in search of a good stove. I am MORE than impressed with my Harmans. When a Harman has problems it is one of three things. 1. It is older than dirt and finally needs a replacement part. 2. It has been run into the ground and neglected of simple infrequent cleanings. 3. A moron owns it and / or some hack dealer or self install has things all jacked up. Very, very rarely is it a quality issue with Harman. Most Harman stoves are no more complex than any other brand but they are made better than about every other brand and the price reflects that.

Most Harmans run like a crock pot. Just throw stuff in, turn it on, and let it go. Simple. Do you clean your crock pot after you use it or do you just throw it back into the cabinet and use it again and again? Sounds like the dealer in question is just that. Very questionable. Perhaps another MORON that has no idea of what he / she is doing because they sure in the hell do not know what they are talking about. Just being straight forward and to the point. Are there other good stoves for the money? Yes, But it is very hard to beat a Harman of any model # or size. And to put it in another perspective There is not much that has changed between my 2006 PC 45 and 2014 P68. Very similar but the newer P68 does respond to changes and user input more quickly. Likely due to some tweeks in the newer control board and ESP probe. I am SOLD on Harman and have ZERO regrets owning them.

Where are you in Ohio? I'm in the SW corner of Northern KY about 34 miles from Cincinnati. I can probably steer you towards a dealer that knows what they are doing also. If you are north of Columbus I can get you to some people that can refer you to them up there. Good Luck and do not believe most stuff these dealers say. My experience was most of them have little knowledge of what they are selling. How far are you from Batesville, IN?

PM me. I will be more than happy to give you some help. Kick that jackazz selling the Avalon to the curb for starters. They are not even listening to your needs. Them selling or trying to push a stove rated for 2,000 SQ FT when you need to heat almost 3,000 SQ FT is a huge red flag and will likely end in an epic failure. Are you going to pull a 32 foot boat with a Ford Fiesta? NOPE! You need a heavy duty truck.


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## bags (May 21, 2016)

Another point and no disrespect nor harm Rona, but comparing a Quadrafire and a Harman is somewhat like apples and oranges so to speak. The self cleaning overly complex AE's are not much like the basic Harman. Yes, HHT owns both companies, but they are very different stoves. 

Kind of like comparing cars and trucks and the conglomerates producing some of them. Like comparing an $18,000 Fiat car to a Ram Cummins HD 4X4 truck. All owned by Chrysler now. Or VW, Audi, and Porsche. You have your high ranking brass and your still wet behind the ears Private.

I am not knocking Quads and looked at one myself. However, I will say I am very happy I made the educated choices I did. There are many good Quads and other brands too for that matter, but for me a Harman is the right answer for many reasons regardless of brand loyalty, looks, or any other factor. They are simply top notch stoves that come with a price. They can take more abuse and neglect than any other stove made now and still keep on keeping on. Try to pull trees down with a Fiat in the mud. If someone likes their Fiat then drive it until the wheels fall off. 

Like comparing a Bixby corn burner to any other biomass burner. You have the cream of the crop and then you have other stoves that try to eat corn............... I know you get the picture.


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## Husky (May 21, 2016)

I have had my Accentra 52i now for 2 seasons. It has worked flawlessly. I know some people have had problems with a popping noise with the stove but I have not experienced this. I have nothing to say bad about this stove. It was a bit expensive but well worth the cost for the quality and ease of use and maintience.


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## bogieb (May 21, 2016)

Harman was sold to HHT in 2007 (not just recently). My stoves have born on dates of 2012 (P43 bought used) and 2013 (P61a bought new). Believe me, if the P61a had not been a great stove, I wouldn't have bought the used P43. I didn't NEED to buy the P43, I already had a stove where it is now (St. Croix Hastings), but when I got the chance I bought the Harman and sold the Hastings.

The Harman's are simple to operate, easy to clean and hold a lot of ash so they don't need attention every week even if you burn garbage pellets. The Hastings was simple to operate (once I finally got the damper set correctly for the pellets I used - the Harman's don't need adjustment after set up), but it was harder to clean, and it HAD to be cleaned weekly using middle-of-the-road pellets. There is no way I could have gone a week between ash pan cleanings if I used ashier pellets. I also put hopper extensions on both Harman's, while I couldn't on the Hastings - which was a problem as during really cold weather a hopper full would only last 13-15 hours - I got home from work several time to a hopper that either had, or was in the process of running dry.

I'm not saying the Hastings was a bad stove, because it did its job well, I just enjoyed the convenience and simplicity of the P61a so much more, and there were other considerations (such as capacity for pellets), so when I got the chance at a good deal on the P43, I jumped at it.

There are many good stoves out there, as attested to by the members on this forum,  but I wouldn't listen to the salesman when he says that Harman's are junk (why in heck would he carry a line he doesn't believe in anyway?). And, I certainly wouldn't buy a Harman from that salesperson if a Harman is your choice - I would find a dealer that likes the product he sells.


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## railfanron (May 21, 2016)

There can be a lot of reasons to undersell the Harman. More profit on the other stove or it has been in the warehouse to long and needs to be moved. Dealer requirements call for a certain volume to be met every quarter and they're not there yet so push the other model instead of the Harman. I would say this: Any salesman that is bad mouthing the competition is either lying to make the sale or just plain inexperienced. Either way I would run not walk to a different dealer. Any salesman worth his salt in any field will tell you bad mouthing the competition will come back and bite you in the rear one way or the other. JMHO
Anyways I also have a Harman and did a lot of research before I bought it. I believe I have the best stove on the market. My neighbor bought a different brand of stove and they told her it was the best on the market and a couple hundred less than a Harman. Is it a good stove yes. Is it a great stove comparable to my Harman, in my opinion absolutely not. Not even close. I make this assessment because I maintain both of them so I believe my opinion to be a valid one.
YMWV
Ron


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## slls (May 21, 2016)

bogieb said:


> Harman was sold to HHT in 2007 (not just recently). My stoves have born on dates of 2012 (P43 bought used) and 2013 (P61a bought new). Believe me, if the P61a had not been a great stove, I wouldn't have bought the used P43. I didn't NEED to buy the P43, I already had a stove where it is now (St. Croix Hastings), but when I got the chance I bought the Harman and sold the Hastings.
> 
> The Harman's are simple to operate, easy to clean and hold a lot of ash so they don't need attention every week even if you burn garbage pellets. The Hastings was simple to operate (once I finally got the damper set correctly for the pellets I used - the Harman's don't need adjustment after set up), but it was harder to clean, and it HAD to be cleaned weekly using middle-of-the-road pellets. There is no way I could have gone a week between ash pan cleanings if I used ashier pellets. I also put hopper extensions on both Harman's, while I couldn't on the Hastings - which was a problem as during really cold weather a hopper full would only last 13-15 hours - I got home from work several time to a hopper that either had, or was in the process of running dry.
> 
> ...



Has Harman changed the suggestion to open door and scrape pot once a day, even with fire going.


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## Tonyray (May 21, 2016)

slls said:


> Has Harman changed the suggestion to open door and scrape pot once a day, even with fire going.


Not that anyone knows..
when I open the door the flames drop  in a few seconds and I scrape away..


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## alternativeheat (May 21, 2016)

We own a Harman P61a, next season will be season 4. So far no issues.  We wanted a stove that makes heat, I mean serious heat and that's what we got. A P series Harman comes with the added benefit of being maybe about the easiest stove going to deep clean. 

Efficiency with today's nominally efficient pellet stoves really comes down to your homes efficiency. If your house is like a weather vane when the weather changes then you're going to burn a bunch of pellets, period ( gee how would I know that). I don't care what stove you get. Is the P61 the most efficient of all pellet stoves ? No, it's a heat monster ( 61,000 btu), to make heat you burn pellets. If your house is loose and requires a lot of extra heating, the stove will burn them for you. If it's super tight and well laid out, the stove will cut back and burn less pellets. That's how it works.


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## railfanron (May 21, 2016)

When my wife was in the hospital I let the Harman burn a week without cleaning the pot. I think with good pellets you can easily go more than a day. I'm burning Pro Pellets.
Ron


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## fmsm (May 21, 2016)

When he says the new Harman's I bet he's talking about the Absolute, the tried and true Harman's are great stoves, the Absolute?


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## Tonyray (May 21, 2016)

fmsm said:


> When he says the new Harman's I bet he's talking about the Absolute, the tried and true Harman's are great stoves, the Absolute?


Absolutley the Absolute 43...
which I think is a 43K BTU unit.. all digital controls and wifi I think..
won't make any more heat than a regular 43K BTU Harman but prob a bit fun to play with.
Personally I don't think anything beats a Freestanding Harman with the HUGE TRUMPESQUE ASH PANS..


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## alternativeheat (May 22, 2016)

The jury is still out on the Harman Absolute 43. But if I owned a 2900 sq ft house ( don't ask me why on earth I would but "if" non the less) I wouldn't be looking at a single 43,000btu unit anyway. Maybe two but certainly not one. Even then two P43's would probably be ideal, heat from a couple of different directions etc etc..


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## bogieb (May 22, 2016)

slls said:


> Has Harman changed the suggestion to open door and scrape pot once a day, even with fire going.



The chart shows every 3 bags (hardwood) and every 5 bags (softwood) - OR, every day. The cleaning description says when adding fuel or once a week.

Depends on the fuel and also can depend on what mode it is burned in.

With the Hastings I had to shut down daily to remove clinkers; Supposedly you could do it while the stove was running but I didn't' want to chance  stray falling pellets producing sparks that could out the door, or even hitting burning pellets in such a way to create a fire hazard (my own paranoia most likely). With the Harmans I don't have to shut down as the bottom feeding screw stops.


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## Tonyray (May 22, 2016)

bogieb said:


> The chart shows every 3 bags (hardwood) and every 5 bags (softwood) - OR, every day. The cleaning description says when adding fuel or once a week.
> 
> Depends on the fuel and also can depend on what mode it is burned in.
> 
> With the Hastings I had to shut down daily to remove clinkers; Supposedly you could do it while the stove was running but I didn't' want to chance  stray falling pellets producing sparks that could out the door, or even hitting burning pellets in such a way to create a fire hazard (my own paranoia most likely). With the Harmans I don't have to shut down as the bottom feeding screw stops.


Correct....


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## Pete Zahria (May 22, 2016)

ejsechler said:


> i understand the whole sales pitch thing, but i was also making sure about what he was saying was at least half the true.


My question would be.. does he sell Harmans?


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## bags (May 22, 2016)

The Harmans will run dependably even if you do not scrape the pot daily. Ask me how I know....

Really though, Do the recommended cleans and pot scrapes and such as many do here and just turn that bad boy on and enjoy the plethora of heat and no baby sitting at whatever temp you like.

Harman stoves are minimalistic animals in the "needy" department. Many others are still attached to Mom's teat. For life! Ouch! the bullets are already hitting that target.

Set it and forget it. Give it some love every now and then. It will love you back ten fold like a loyal old dog.


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## Tonyray (May 22, 2016)

bags said:


> The Harmans will run dependably even if you do not scrape the pot daily. Ask me how I know....
> 
> Really though, Do the recommended cleans and pot scrapes and such as many do here and just turn that bad boy on and enjoy the plethora of heat and no baby sitting at whatever temp you like.
> 
> ...


Amen


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## alternativeheat (May 22, 2016)

I'll time it next winter but I'd guess that the daily pot scraping takes about all of 20 seconds to perform, assuming you are burning pellets that require the scraping in the first place ( here in the North East pretty much all the affordable pellets are crappy, so I scrape). It's that sort of level of "labor intensive" though. You can see it in the daily maintenance video at Harman and the guy is taking his time to speak clearly and I don't know about anyone else but I don't turn down a thing, I crack the door the flame dies, open the door wide, scrape and close the door. Done deal.. Go put the coffee on. I had  pure white Pine pellets and they required 0 scraping but didn't see those around this year.


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## bogieb (May 22, 2016)

alternativeheat said:


> I'll time it next winter but I'd guess that the daily pot scraping takes about all of 20 seconds to perform, assuming you are burning pellets that require the scraping in the first place ( here in the North East pretty much all the affordable pellets are crappy, so I scrape). It's that sort of level of "labor intensive" though. You can see it in the daily maintenance video at Harman and the guy is taking his time to speak clearly and I don't know about anyone else but *I don't turn down a thing, I crack the door the flame dies, open the door wide, scrape and close the door*. Done deal.. Go put the coffee on. I had  pure white Pine pellets and they required 0 scraping but didn't see those around this year.



Exactly what I do too. If I had to guess, unless I'm burning really chitty pellets, less than the 20 seconds you mention. When burning Hamers, Vermonts or DF's (which I only got a few bags of each) - I had zero scraping also.


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## Havilcek stole the ball (May 23, 2016)

I scrape my P68 most every day, but there was a week or so this past winter when I let the burn pot grow a big fat ash mustache. I just left it for several days. As far as I could tell the mustache had no effect on anything. It got to a certain size and then just stayed at that size, because the advancing ash just kicked the most forward ash over into the ash can.  I was using some of those end of season $200/ton pellets so they were ashy anyway. I suspect the main benefit of the scraping is to scrape the build-up off the burn pot rather than snowplow a bunch of ash into the ash can. I do scrape it out mostly every day, but I am not too sure why I am doing it, as it seems to run pretty good whether I do it or not.


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## Havilcek stole the ball (May 23, 2016)

By the way, to the OP's original question, I have a Harman but have never had any other pellet stove, so maybe my opinion is not as useful as someone with more exposure to other brands. That said, we are really happy with it. It throws some serious heat. We got ours in 2007 or so, and have never had any serious problems.


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## Tonyray (May 23, 2016)

Havilcek stole the ball said:


> By the way, to the OP's original question, I have a Harman but have never had any other pellet stove, so maybe my opinion is not as useful as someone with more exposure to other brands. That said, we are really happy with it. It throws some serious heat. We got ours in 2007 or so, and have never had any serious problems.


Same here...
we have only owned a Harman so maybe our Opinion is not useful either  so we Will keep it to ourselves that we  Prob have the Best  you can buy  for many reasons..


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## jackhammer (May 23, 2016)

Tonyray said:


> Same here...
> we have only owned a Harman so maybe our Opinion is not useful either  so we Will keep it to ourselves that we  Prob have the Best  you can buy  for many reasons..


My first stove was a Breckwell installed new when my wife and I had our house built in 1997.  It was a great stove, and very frugal with the pellets.  Never needed repair, not once.  Had it professionally cleaned once, I followed the pro's technique from then on out.  It heated our 2000sf no problem with forced hot air oil supplementing the pellets.  The only reason I replaced it was I wanted something easier to clean.  I do like the Harman, with only one season in, the only thing I don't like is the quantity of pellets it takes to run it.  I think there is a learning curve there and that's ok.  With that said, I have read lots of bad reviews on the Breckwell stoves of today and am glad I went with the Harman as a replacement.  Easy to run, clean and plenty of heat.


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## smwilliamson (May 24, 2016)

obviously he doesn't sell Harman. He's just sore because Travis discontinued its entire line of pellet products and replaced it with kinda an ugly looking box.


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## Don2222 (May 25, 2016)

Hello
The Harman Absolute was plauged with software bugs in the new design color digital touch screen controller and that maybe what the dealer was talking about. I am sure they will be fixed in due time. While most of the other parts are the same high quality parts, the new Absolute P43 burn pot design is very similar to the AGP burn pot and SBI stoves latest burn pot design! Who copied who?? LOL It does not have WiFi which is very upsetting because it is due to all the safety standards, rules and regulations that our government is emposing so the foreign made stoves are way ahead in that category! HHT the company that owns Harman, Quadrafire and Pelpro has found some Chinese Manufactures to build parts to very minimum specs. Fortunately Dane will not put those parts in his Harmans but watch out for the other HHT brands. Therefore the other long standing Harman models are the same tried and true machines that they have always been!
The Avalon AGP had some initial issues with the top auger motor and cutter wheel not being strong enough but Travis came up with a fix.
If you want to save money like I did, a used Harman might be a way to go. Usually you save when buying a used stove because a new stoves price includes approximately $500 for warranty work and $500 for just being brand new never used. So for at least a thousand dollars less and maybe more, with some TLC you can have a Harman stove that will perform like new and look like new if you can clean, paint and replace a few parts yourself, just my 2 cents.


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## smwilliamson (May 26, 2016)

Government regulations and safety standards are the obstacle to WiFi access? Oh my.....that sounds kinda made up. NEST, Homeywell and Ecobee found a work around. So did Windhager and Orkefen and Kedel. Seems more likely that HHT doesn't want their support lines to be plagued with questions regarding network errors. FYI, Dane doesn't have final say anymore, I think he sold that option quite a while ago.


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## Don2222 (May 26, 2016)

smwilliamson said:


> Government regulations and safety standards are the obstacle to WiFi access? Oh my.....that sounds kinda made up. NEST, Homeywell and Ecobee found a work around. So did Windhager and Orkefen and Kedel. Seems more likely that HHT doesn't want their support lines to be plagued with questions regarding network errors. FYI, Dane doesn't have final say anymore, I think he sold that option quite a while ago.


Nest, Honeywell and Ecobee are not stove Manufacturers. Foreign stoves do not have to work with the FCC when incorporating wireless devices and controls, those are the facts. Dane is working on engineering new designs the last time I spoke to him.


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## smwilliamson (May 26, 2016)

Don2222 said:


> Nest, Honeywell and Ecobee are not stove Manufacturers. Foreign stoves do not have to work with the FCC when incorporating wireless devices and controls, those are the facts. Dane is working on engineering new designs the last time I spoke to him.


Your talking about a Bluetooth connection from a stove to wifi....there is already an assigned bandwidth these things operate on....and yes, foreign stoves have to work with the fcc if they want to sell here but the point is mute....it's the same technology my iPhone is using right now, but in a stove controller and there aren't any standards or regulations preventing that from happening.unless of you're going to provide a link...id be interested to know.


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## rona (May 28, 2016)

ejsechler said:


> Good to know, but yea that is pretty much what he said,close to it anyways. Ahhh this is going to take me awhile to figure out what to buy. Glad i am starting early.


 
   Seems heating a 2900 sq ft home with a 43,000 btu  will be a little  wishful thinking  to me regardless of the brand.  As you can see most of the people here agree Harman has the best reputation.  As far as having to stop and clean I have seen the Harman PC45 burn a ton of pellets non stop before you have to  stop and dump the ash bucket. Quality pellets will play a part.  Cleaning the stove  and how often it is done is something to look at before you purchase any unit. Usually I would suggest talking to someone who has owned the model you are interested in and has owned it for at least 2 or 3 seasons. By then they know all the good and bad features and if they seen a better unit they might say why a different model is better.
I have owned 3 different brands and worked with a dealer who sold Harman and St Croix and been in contact with a lot of people who owned several different brands.  I have heard a lot of comments that go like this: Yeah, I bought brand X from Menards for only 990.00 on special as its dumb spending three times that amount for a name brand. Two years later they stop in and want to buy that one that cost three times more. I asked why do you want to spend all that money buying a new stove? The standard reply is we should have listened  because the old one uses more pellets and the heat goes right out the exhaust instead of in the house.   So sometimes you get what you pay for.
 There is a fine line between making a stove that is easy to maintain and making one that captures as much heat as possible before the exh is blown out of the house.
  One last comment is it used to be said  purchasing a pellet or multifuel stove would pay for itself. When fuel oil got up close to 4.00 and corn was only worth 1.50 a bushel-  pellets cost about 2.25 a bag  it was easy to pencil out savings.   My theory is if it pays for itself I may as well go first class and buy a proven stove with the convenience features such as auto ignition -thermostat control. Even going as far as having the ability to start it or shut it off with my smart phone.  Yeah, you can do that too.


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## Tonyray (May 29, 2016)

Can't wait till I get my Smart Refridge and it alerts me that I need milk/eggs etc
Can't wait till I get my Smart Pellet stove and it alerts me that I am low on pellets.
Can't wait till the wife sez do you really need any more Alerts on your phone ?
Can't wait till I realize just cause they build it doesn't mean I Actually need it..
[Although Apple  always had Great success at convincing us we needed everything they built]


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## UpStateNY (May 30, 2016)

Tonyray said:


> Can't wait till I get my Smart Refridge and it alerts me that I need milk/eggs etc
> Can't wait till I get my Smart Pellet stove and it alerts me that I am low on pellets.
> .....


Samsung has Refrigerator with a camera in inside that you view the contents of your Fridge from your smart phone.  I guess the light inside doesn't go out when you close the door after all.  Glad we figured that age old question out.  

I need a Pellet stove with a camera inside the pellet hopper so I can check it from my smart phone and call the wife to add more pellets.


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## Don2222 (May 30, 2016)

UpStateNY said:


> Samsung has Refrigerator with a camera in inside that you view the contents of your Fridge from your smart phone.  I guess the light inside doesn't go out when you close the door after all.  Glad we figured that age old question out.
> 
> I need a Pellet stove with a camera inside the pellet hopper so I can check it from my smart phone and call the wife to add more pellets.


If you have the Lowes Iris system with a camera and a Harman with the glass lid hopper, you can mount the camera above and just point it down! Bingo!
The new Harman absolute series stoves tell you how many hours more you can run the stove with the amount of pellets left in the hopper!!


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## UpStateNY (May 30, 2016)

Don2222 said:


> If you have the Lowes Iris system with a camera and a Harman with the glass lid hopper, you can mount the camera above and just point it down! Bingo!
> The new Harman absolute series stoves tell you how many hours more you can run the stove with the amount of pellets left in the hopper!!


Thanks for the advice.  Not sure my 2008 Harman is reliable by other folks standards.    I simply put pellets in it and clean it when necessary.  I did replace the igniter last summer which means Harman is  not perfect and has room for improvement.    My dog on the other hand costs me about $600 in vet bill each year.


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## Tonyray (May 30, 2016)

Don2222 said:


> If you have the Lowes Iris system with a camera and a Harman with the glass lid hopper, you can mount the camera above and just point it down! Bingo!
> The new Harman absolute series stoves tell you how many hours more you can run the stove with the amount of pellets left in the hopper!!


How the heck did we get along  without our stoves letting us know how long we had to burn remaining pellets.
great Techno ideas but useless if no one is home to refill the hopper maybe.....


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## stovelark (Jun 9, 2016)

I think I would just laugh if I heard someone say Harman doesn't make a good pellet stove anymore........ As a salesperson myself, I cringe when I hear a fellow salesperson degrade another pellet stove co espec one that they themselves don't sell (isn't that it always??).  There are many good pellet stoves out there, just like there are many nice automobiles.  The most important part always is how they are installed, ran and who maintains their cleanliness.  I happen to like Enviro, but my goodness I hope I never say its the only good stove made.....  there are so many.  Getting chilly here in SE CT tonight, feels good out, strange as it may seem....  sounds weird to say in June, but everybody stay warm.....


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## hockeypuck (Jun 11, 2016)

So do we have to separate out the  absolute 43 from the rest?  Looking to replace my Enviro Mini with a stove that is easier to clean.  Seems like the verdict is still out on the absolute.


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## Don2222 (Jun 11, 2016)

hockeypuck said:


> So do we have to separate out the  absolute 43 from the rest?  Looking to replace my Enviro Mini with a stove that is easier to clean.  Seems like the verdict is still out on the absolute.


The Absolute 63 will be released soon which will be one of the largest cast pellet stove on the market. So I am sure they are working on the bugs as we speak!

Do you have the Mini or the Mini-A?
Since the Mini came out they have upgraded the control panel, have a larger burn pot and added a latch to the ash door. (That is the most effective upgrade)
They still have one more important upgrade to do! Add larger impeller blades on the exhaust blower so it burns better on heat level 1.  Just my 2 cents...


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## bags (Jun 11, 2016)

Honestly I have not heard nor seen any bad things or reviews on the Absolute 43. Maybe I am wrong. I prefer simpler machines myself and obviously the more tech and razzle dazzle wigets things have then the larger the possibility of something going wrong. More things = more things that can head south.

I stopped by my dealer awhile back and there was one in the showroom and it looked like a nice set up. He said he has not had any issues and has sold numerous Absolutes. I think many (myself included) just like simple and easier to figure out and work on.


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## ajbass (Dec 4, 2016)

% seasons on a Harmon P43. After the 3rd season the exhaust got noisy (just replaced, could not believe how quiet). Now the auger motor and fan motor is getting noisy. Also, I have a slow pellet feed issue. Just tried an esp with no luck. I also purchased a used 2011 P43. Both blowers a little noisy as well. With the same pellets and all settings maxed, the used one is outputting 75 degrees hotter at the air output to room.


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## Gavin641 (Dec 4, 2016)

Nothing wrong with my 4 year old Harman,must be the dealer can make more money selling the Avalon.


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## Husky (Dec 5, 2016)

My 3 year old Harman is working like a champ. No problems with anything as of now. I put about 5 ton a year through it. Already burned a ton this year. I do keep up with maintenance on a regular intervals.


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## sunnydog (Dec 5, 2016)

Hi all, first post here.

Thought I would chime in about my experience with the Absolute 43.
I’m on my second season with the stove. Had two problems early on, one was the room
temperature sensor had to be replaced. Displayed temperature would jump around, one second it would read 
72 and a second later 60. The other problem was the pellet grate in the burn pot warped. The igniter wouldn’t
work so I had to use starter gel for a couple of days until I got a newly designed grate.
(Harman was aware of the problem and got the part to my dealer quickly)

Other than that the stove has been great and it’s easy to clean. I haven’t had any software problems.
The stove heats our well insulated 1800sq home really well. We went thru a little over 2 tons of barefoot pellets
last year. This season I bought the wireless room sensor and did the Software update and its been rock solid.
I had a wood stove for 25 years prior to this so its my first pellet stove.


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## Lake Girl (Dec 5, 2016)

Just to finish the thread out the OP(ejsechler) bought a used Accentra.  You can follow his progress here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-accentra-should-i-buy-it.155860/#post-2094669


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## Lake Girl (Dec 5, 2016)

sunnydog said:


> Thought I would chime in about my experience with the Absolute 43.
> I’m on my second season with the stove. Had two problems early on, one was the room
> temperature sensor had to be replaced. Displayed temperature would jump around, one second it would read
> 72 and a second later 60. The other problem was the pellet grate in the burn pot warped.


I would think this would be worthy of starting a new thread since the absolutes are a newer model and this may help folks with determining if this is the stove for them ... Nice to hear it is burning well!


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## TStark (Dec 5, 2016)

Typical salespeak; what I sell is great, everything else is junk, even if I sold it last week.


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## David Myers (Dec 6, 2016)

sunnydog said:


> Hi all, first post here.
> 
> Thought I would chime in about my experience with the Absolute 43.
> I’m on my second season with the stove. Had two problems early on, one was the room
> ...


I have a new Absolute 43. It only worked for three weeks before the burn grate warped and the stove would not light. I have been waiting for over three weeks for a replacement from the dealer where I bought the stove.I hope they send the newly designed one.


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## fmsm (Dec 6, 2016)

sunnydog said:


> Hi all, first post here.
> 
> Thought I would chime in about my experience with the Absolute 43.
> I’m on my second season with the stove. Had two problems early on, one was the room
> ...



I had the same  warped burnpot issue, they replaced that and the igniter. What I find interesting is that they had a software update, I wonder if that had anything to do with my dirty burn/fuel air mixture issue?


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## Lake Girl (Dec 7, 2016)

David Myers said:


> I have a new Absolute 43. It only worked for three weeks before the burn grate warped and the stove would not light. I have been waiting for over three weeks for a replacement from the dealer where I bought the stove.I hope they send the newly designed one.


Make sure you check up on the software update too.  And welcome to the forum!


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## sunnydog (Dec 7, 2016)

fmsm said:


> I had the same  warped burnpot issue, they replaced that and the igniter. What I find interesting is that they had a software update, I wonder if that had anything to do with my dirty burn/fuel air mixture issue?




If you look at the notes for the Software update it appears it’s more for the wireless room sensor and a few display enhancements, but who knows. I did the update this past fall when I got the wireless room sensor.
I burn in room temp mode unless it’s really cold. The stove is burning different from last year, but I attribute that to now having the sensor 15ft from the stove. Before the stove would cycle on and off a lot more.
Last spring I had my dealer/installer come out and do the complete cleaning and he was surprised how clean the vent and stove was.

I’m curious, what were the symptoms of your problem and did they have any explanation?


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## Lake Girl (Dec 7, 2016)

Likely should start a new post detailing the quirks/pitfalls of the Allure  Folks may have more trouble finding them buried in the 3 page spread...


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## David Myers (Dec 7, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Make sure you check up on the software update too.  And welcome to the forum!


Thanks for the welcome. I will have to check to see how to do the software update, or see if I need it on this stove. This stove is new this year. I had the Fire Fox stove made by Travts for 19 years and replaced it with the Absolute 43. When the stove was working it did seem to burn a little on the rich side. There is no damper control like my old stove, so maybe a software update will allow the  stove to burn a bit leaner. I have faith in Harmon and hope I will eventually get everything straightened out.


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## fmsm (Dec 7, 2016)

sunnydog said:


> If you look at the notes for the Software update it appears it’s more for the wireless room sensor and a few display enhancements, but who knows. I did the update this past fall when I got the wireless room sensor.
> I burn in room temp mode unless it’s really cold. The stove is burning different from last year, but I attribute that to now having the sensor 15ft from the stove. Before the stove would cycle on and off a lot more.
> Last spring I had my dealer/installer come out and do the complete cleaning and he was surprised how clean the vent and stove was.
> 
> I’m curious, what were the symptoms of your problem and did they have any explanation?


Very dirty burn, black glass and soot in the firebox. So bad that the concrete outside of the exhaust (I go up a foot and straight out) was spotted with black smoke. The stove was installed by the dealer and I was using Okanagan Douglas Firs.

After many conversations and troubleshooting trips by the dealer Harman's solution was to replace the stove. I was too afraid of the Absolute and went with an Accentra.


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