# cheapest way to install a wood stove in a home?



## 777funk (Sep 12, 2014)

I had a nice old Ashley circulator that I found for $50 when we first purchased our home. I was planning to install it in the basement until I calculated the costs of installing. It was going to be a few grand for all the pipe, chimney, etc which after buying our first home was not in the cards. So I gave the stove to an old employee who was heating his shop with a 55 drum stove and would put the Ashley to good use!

I am glad I didn't install it in the basement at this point. Too much lumber there, etc and not always enough attendance to a fire.

So I'd like to install it first floor. We have a 1200 square foot ranch home with linoleum and drywall in the room it'd be going into. I realize I'll have to install something more insulating for the floor and the wall behind the stove. So I'm curious as to what will be my cheapest route to tackle the heat barrier?

Second question, would I be better with the stove close to the outside wall or more towards the center of the house. If in the corner it will be at the lowest pitch of the roof. In the center it will obviously be at the roof's peak. Not sure what advantages/disadvantages are here.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to do this myself for under $1000 not including the stove.

Third question, I'm also a little concerned that home insurance may offset the savings of wood heating. Valid concern?


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## webby3650 (Sep 12, 2014)

With a modern stove, insurance should have concern as long as it's installed properly. Are you planning to still use that Ashley? Or get a good stove? Most likely insurance will not like the Ashley no matter how it's installed.
Location shouldn't affect much, you'll just have more pipe outside if it goes in the corner. If you have menards where you are, that would be your cheapest bet for quality pipe.
Modern stoves only need a non-combustible surface on the floor. Even just a piece of sheet metal works for most stoves, and nothing on the wall is required most of the time. Some can be as close as 4 1/4" from drywall!


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## fossil (Sep 12, 2014)

Find a stove that fits your budget, then look very  closely at the manufacturer's documentation for installation requirements, including minimum clearances to combustible surfaces; whether or not those tolerances can be reduced with shielding; and the floor protection requirement for the appliance.  A safe installation must meet all those requirements.  Wall shielding may sound simple, but makes the installation a good deal more complicated and tedious and costly.  The flue system (interior stove pipe, through-structure transition, and exterior Class A chimney to daylight) is critical to proper safety and performance, and again there are codes and standards involving both the materials and the installation details.  

Installing a solid fuel-burning appliance inside your home is not a project, in my opinion, where it's appropriate to be looking to cut corners to save a few bucks.  Done correctly, it's not going to be a particularly cheap project, but it doesn't have to cost a mint.  Done incorrectly, it can kill you and your family.  It's something that warrants a good deal of research, thought and careful planning.  Rick


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## 777funk (Sep 12, 2014)

Sounds like anything past a certain age will be an issue for insurance cos? I really liked the idea of that Ashley that I gave away. Seemed like a good old unit (70's I'd guess).


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## bholler (Sep 12, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> Modern stoves only need a non-combustible surface on the floor. Even just a piece of sheet metal works for most stoves, and nothing on the wall is required most of the time. Some can be as close as 4 1/4" from drywall!



That is not true at all that modern stoves only need non combustible surface.  A whole lot of them need insulation as well


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## fossil (Sep 12, 2014)

Modern stoves are more efficient, cleaner burning, and easier to operate and maintain.  And there are so many choices of good stoves out there, that it doesn't have to be a budget-buster.  Rick


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## Todd 2 (Sep 12, 2014)

777funk said:


> Second question, would I be better with the stove close to the outside wall or more towards the center of the house. If in the corner it will be at the lowest pitch of the roof. In the center it will obviously be at the roof's peak. Not sure what advantages/disadvantages are here.


15 ft from the stove collar to the top of the pipe (less the cap) will be an ideal place to start and what most new stoves request. Some state from the floor the stove sits on to the top 15 ft but the 2 ft or so extra starting from the top of the stove should be a positive. Centering the stove in the house is best, it will heat the whole house more evenly in most cases. With the stove on a center wall you will not have as much pipe showing outside and depending on the height to clear the peak you may not have to purchase a pipe support kit ($100+ savings) Also with more of the pipe not exposed to the direct outside your start up fires will usually perform better due to a little warmer stack. One of the biggest advantages to the pipe being closer to the peak and not so tall off the roof is cleaning it if you have to clean from the top down.

Todd


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## Grisu (Sep 12, 2014)

Make sure your wood is dry and then any modern stove will leave the Ashley in the dust. Longer burn times and about twice as much heat from the same amount of wood. Insurance should not be too bad; between $0 and $100 additional premium with an average of $50 to $75 seems to be the consensus here. The savings from burning wood instead of oil or propane will quickly offset that. 

Locating the stove and with it the chimney in the center of the house often makes for easier heat circulation and the chimney will not need to stick out of the roof as far. Minimum flue height for many stoves is 15 ft. For a modern budget-friendly mid-size stove check out the Pacific Energy True North and the (new) Englander Madison: http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/Wood_SSW01.pdf and https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/madison-in-my-burn-trailer.128150/


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## 777funk (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks! I have plenty of good oak and hickory on the property. So I wouldn't run low on dry firewood. It's ashamed the house didn't already have a wood stove.

There's one of these (Regency 1100) for $500 used that I am considering. It looks like with single wall pipe I would only need around a foot between the stove and drywall. I wouldn't have thought I could get away with that. That's great. From what I gather I can use single wall except where I'm going through ceilings/roofs and past the roof I will need chimney (triple wall and expensive). I would assume I'd probably need double wall in the attic (trusses)?


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## Grisu (Sep 12, 2014)

777funk said:


> Thanks! I have plenty of good oak and hickory on the property. So I wouldn't run low on dry firewood. It's ashamed the house didn't already have a wood stove.



Those are great, high BTU hardwoods but they can take up to 3 years to season after they have been split and stacked in a sunny and windy location. Did you already put up some cords? 


> There's one of these (Regency 1100) for $500 used that I am considering.



That is a small stove. Good for supplemental heat but you will get burn times of 5 to 6 hours max meaning someone will need to get up at night to feed it. You want to have a stove with at least a 2 cu ft firebox for an overnight burn. The stoves I mentioned are big enough and are new less than $1000 plus they come with warranty.


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## bholler (Sep 12, 2014)

You need class a chimney once you hit a wall or ceiling and run that all the way to the top there are a few approved triple wall class a systems but double wall insulated class a is the most common and i feel the best product.


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## Todd 2 (Sep 12, 2014)

Take a look at the the chimney kit systems (dubble wall class A) at woodland direct.com they have a guide page to help figure a system.


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## Rickb (Sep 12, 2014)

777funk said:


> Thanks! I have plenty of good oak and hickory on the property. So I wouldn't run low on dry firewood. It's ashamed the house didn't already have a wood stove.
> 
> There's one of these (Regency 1100) for $500 used that I am considering. It looks like with single wall pipe I would only need around a foot between the stove and drywall. I wouldn't have thought I could get away with that. That's great. From what I gather I can use single wall except where I'm going through ceilings/roofs and past the roof I will need chimney (triple wall and expensive). I would assume I'd probably need double wall in the attic (trusses)?




So you have lots of wet wood and live trees.  When these guys say dry wood they are talking wood cut and stacked for 3 years.....  Especially oak and hickory.  You can get by with less time on ash or soft woods.


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## Rebelduckman (Sep 12, 2014)

I installed an englander 13nc and a duravent chimney for around 1100 doing it myself. 600 for the stove and around 500 for the chimney. I researched and studied for awhile and when i got started i was amazed at how easy it actually was to install.


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## stayfitz (Sep 13, 2014)

I think the 13NC is 1.8 cuft


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## 777funk (Sep 13, 2014)

I've got some windfalls that have been down a couple years. I also have a solar kiln. I don't know if I'd want to put bark and bugs in there though since I use it primarily (but not regularly) for lumber. I have a sawmill that I can get 8x8 dried oak chunks pretty cheap (intended for firewood). So until my supply catches up, I have a source. 

Wow! 3 years on Oak and Hickory. I always assumed split and stack the season before it's used. I guess not! 

Looks like the 2.4 Englander Madison you recommended is not much more space consuming than the one I found locally (1 year old stove) but with a lot more burn capacity. Price seems good too.


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## bholler (Sep 13, 2014)

I personally think three years is an exaggeration but one is really pushing it I get most of my wood down to 20% or less in a year


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## webby3650 (Sep 13, 2014)

bholler said:


> That is not true at all that modern stoves only need non combustible surface.  A whole lot of them need insulation as well


That's correct, I meant to say MANY modern stoves only need a non-combustible surface. 
Out of a few dozen different stoves we sell only a few low end ones need any R value to the hearth pad.


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 13, 2014)

777funk, I was in the same situation 3 years ago, I bought my house,  and in year 1 used the oil heat, almost put me in the poor house, the next season I got a few quotes to install a stove and chimney pipe (was in the $3,000.00 range for everything) I could not afford that at the time so I went and bought a stove, class A pipe and regular stove pipe. I live in a raised ranch. I installed the stove in the living room and used a "through the roof stove pipe kit" All said and done I was in the $1000.00 range for all chimney pipe. Have the stove in the main living space closer to the center helps, Mine is in the living room caddi cornered near the outside wall and center of the home, The stove works really good, actually to good (that's why im in the process ofmoving it to the basement. The chimney is strait up (single wall approx. 6ft to the ceiling support box, then class a double wall insulated in the attic through the roof about  6ft, then through the actual roof and approx. 4ft then chimney cap. (16ft total)


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## bholler (Sep 13, 2014)

webby3650 said:


> That's correct, I meant to say MANY modern stoves only need a non-combustible surface.
> Out of a few dozen different stoves we sell only a few low end ones need any R value to the hearth pad.



I figured that was what you meant but had to correct you.  I know you know that and just mis typed


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## 777funk (Sep 13, 2014)

You guys are serious about this! Glad I found this place. I'm sure I would have been thrilled with even one of those hot water heater or 55G drums and whatever fallen trees I could scrounge up in my woods and never known the difference since I've never experienced how it should be!

But you guys have this down to a science. I'm glad I found you guys!


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## Rickb (Sep 13, 2014)

bholler said:


> I personally think three years is an exaggeration but one is really pushing it I get most of my wood down to 20% or less in a year




I agree, however I will say I have some oak I cut in early spring and it is still high 20's now so it will be used either next spring for the fire pit or the winter after.


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## 777funk (Sep 13, 2014)

So Englander seems to get respect around here. Any other easily found brands that won't break the bank? I like the fact that it's USA made as well. There's a guy with a Vogelzang Durango used for $500 OBO. I was thinking of offering $300 since the blower needs work. But then I found it was Made In China. Not interested in that with an Englander 13 being $650 and a 30 being $850. I don't mind this being supplimental so the Englander 13 may be enough for our 2002 built 1200 sq ft ranch. We burned $200 a month in propane last winter.

Now please clear this up for me if you guys would... I'm a little confused here. Will I save any in piping by having the stove piping exit closer to the roof ridge vs at the roof's low point near the house's exterior wall? I'm looking for the cheapest good way to pipe this in that will meet safety requirements.


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## Grisu (Sep 13, 2014)

777funk said:


> So Englander seems to get respect around here. Any other easily found brands that won't break the bank? I like the fact that it's USA made as well. There's a guy with a Vogelzang Durango used for $500 OBO. I was thinking of offering $300 since the blower needs work. But then I found it was Made In China. Not interested in that with an Englander 13 being $650 and a 30 being $850. I don't mind this being supplimental so the Englander 13 may be enough for our 2002 built 1200 sq ft ranch. We burned $200 a month in propane last winter.



The reason why I suggested the new Madison instead of the 13NC is that the Madison only needs ember protection easily achieved with a $100 stove board. The 13NC needs a hearth with a r-value of 2.0 if the floor is made from combustibles. That is a pretty hefty requirement and usually requires the use of several layers of durock or special materials like Micore. Not really close to your goal of easy and cheap. Other budget stoves to look at would be Drolet stoves or Timberwolf, the new budget line of Napoleon: http://www.timberwolffireplaces.com/products/


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## begreen (Sep 13, 2014)

bholler said:


> That is not true at all that modern stoves only need non combustible surface.  A whole lot of them need insulation as well



I'm also thinking an Englander 13NC here and as noted, that has quite serious floor protection requirements. But the 13NC represents a very good value at about $650 and a homemade protector can be done for less than $100 with some ingenuity, so it should be considered. One place to not skimp is on the flue system or on the clearance requirements. This must be done safely. If possible go straight up through the house. The parts are usually cheaper this way.


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## 777funk (Sep 13, 2014)

Grisu said:


> The reason why I suggested the new Madison instead of the 13NC is that the Madison only needs ember protection easily achieved with a $100 stove board. The 13NC needs a hearth with a r-value of 2.0 if the floor is made from combustibles. That is a pretty hefty requirement and usually requires the use of several layers of durock or special materials like Micore. Not really close to your goal of easy and cheap. Other budget stoves to look at would be Drolet stoves or Timberwolf, the new budget line of Napoleon: http://www.timberwolffireplaces.com/products/




Ahh! I was thinking the Madison was another name for the 13NC. Seems like it's hard a little bit difficult to find the Madison now that I'm looking. I was planning to put down tile and possibly Wonderboard under that. Haven't done the required research yet. Seems like every stove has different requirements. We have tile atop of OSB in our bathrooms and it's held up great. Currently we have linoleum in the area where the stove would go. Obviously that will have to change.


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## Grisu (Sep 13, 2014)

Here is a list of common hearth materials and their r-values:https://chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm Just tile and a layer of wonderboard won't be enough. If a stove says "ember-protection" or a layer of non-combustible material it usually means you don't need any thermal protection. That will be the easiest. 

The Madison is just being distributed to the stores. You may need to call Englander and ask if and where it is being sold in your area.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 14, 2014)

A little late to the game and most questions have been answered, but . . .

As mentioned . . . insurance premiums may or may not go up. Mine went up 0 dollars, but I did have to have a professional installation and have it signed off by the fire department. Other folks have seen an increase in the premium, but it typically is less than you might think . . . certainly less money than it would cost to continue to heat with most other heating fuels.

I like the idea of moving this to the first floor. Putting the stove where you spend most of your time makes a lot of sense. Not only can you monitor the stove better, but you will get more heat into the area where you are most of the time . . . plus with "modern" stoves being able to see the fire is a visual treat. I cannot tell you how often I turn off the TV in the winter and just watch the fire.

As mentioned . . . many of the older stoves required large clearance distances and/or rugged hearths. Depending on the make/model that may or may not be the case. Most manufacturers have significantly cut down on the clearances (in some cases we're talking inches) even without wall protection . . . and some manufacturers only require non-combustible floor protection (which honestly could be a sheet of metal . . . although that would be a bit ugly in my opinion.) Even if you have to make your own hearth and need to have one with a certain insulation value you will find you can make a very good looking one for $250-$350 with a bit of work . . . and it's not even that hard work . . . trust me . . . I'm a mechanical/construction idiot and I was able to make what I think is a decent looking hearth.

As mentioned . . . most folks will say placing the stove at the center of the home is best for cost and heat distribution. That said, you can still get by with one elsewhere. I have one located in a corner and it does fine . . . did cost me a bit more though with the Class A chimney (although a co-worker who is a sweep got me a decent deal). 

Good budget stoves: Englander, Napoleon and Drolet.


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## Lumber-Jack (Sep 14, 2014)

One thing to keep in mind when picking the location and installing the flue, if possible is it's generally easier to install it so it penetrates the roof close to the peak of the roof (assuming you have a sloping roof and not a flat roof). This accomplishes a few things. It gives you more attic space to do the install inside the attic area. It allows your flue section to stick high enough above the peak of the house for good draft without any need for any extra chimney bracing. And it usually makes flashing on top of the roof around the roof penetration much easier as you can often run the flashing right up under the ridge cap without disturbing the rest of the roof.


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