# Wearing myself out.  (Newbie collecting wood)



## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

I have 3.5 - 4.5 cords C/S/S (I stacked it log cabin, so up to 30% loss by volume I am told) thus far, binging on a weekend here or there since November when I can get wood.

Previously my back had been a tiny bit sore, but nothing big.  I think my back has adjusted well to swinging the Fiskars X27, I can swing all day now.  The muscles in my hands would actually be sore from gripping the ax all day.  Now they tolerate it well.

Well this past 3-day weekend I didn't have wood from my usual supply, so I turned to another source on Craigslist in order to make effective use of the long weekend in my race to get two years ahead on my wood supply.

I took delivery of my first (and likely last) "10 yarder" (12 ft. long by 8 ft. wide by 4 ft. high).  The landscaper was honest in stating it was logs ranging from 20-40in in diameter, but it put me into overdrive for a little too long.  When I went to bed I kept waking up from tingling fingers last night.  This morning the tingling is gone, but my hands are sore.  I contribute this almost solely to this white collar guy using his chainsaw for all weekend long and the vibrations.

I have much respect for folks who cut wood for a living.

Going forward I don't think I'll bite off that much wood at once again and I won't go for hours straight for a long weekend.  I desperately want to get my C/S/S done asap (8 cords max for 1974 sq foot ranch in CT) for proper drying next year when I buy my insert but not at the cost of my health (my googling says this is related to Carpal Tunnel).

Here is the 10 yarder:








And here is my wood pile this morning:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




What you can't see is the area between the chunks of wood and the stacked area... it's like a battle zone between the large diameter chunks of wood and my Fiskars X27.... splitting splits off the side of the large chunks and whittling them down.  There are also large piles of unstacked splits to the right and left of my woodpile.... stacking is going to take "a bit" of time.  Haha.  

So lesson learned... a pickup truck's worth at a time is just right for me, the 10 yarder was a lot of wood and a lot of mess for my side yard with all the sawdust, and I'm not so young anymore.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

Also, and this totally could be my newbie self, bit looking at my woodpile I keep saying (and the fiancee in my ear) "there's no way I'd burn all that in a winter."

Most hearth.com members in my area state they use 3-4 cords of wood a year for my size home.  I've been using this calculator to figure out how many cords I have:
http://www.maine.gov/ag/firewood.html

But probably 85% of it is stacked log cabin style, so it takes up more volume.  Forum members have stated up to 20-30% more volume as opposed to stacked normally.

So if I've got 3.5-4.5 cords of wood depending on how you discount the log cabin volume, I'm wondering if I'd really go through that much in a year if I plan to install a Blaze King Princess Insert.  Should I be taking into account the "when I switched to a CAT stove I now burn 30% less wood!" factor?


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## Wood Duck (Jan 22, 2013)

Keep some rounds on hand so you can split a little every day. That should help keep your hands and arms in splitting shape, and you'll be ready for a long weekend if you want one. Of course by splitting a little every day you may get far enough ahead that you won't need any more long weekends, but you could still have one just for fun and exercise.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

With these short days and close neighbors, I really can't split every day that I'd like, thus the weekend flurries.  But... I really don't want to split in the heat of the summer if I can avoid it.  I'll get there, just very motiviated to get two years ahead as a newbie just starting out.  I know future years will be 1/2 the work.


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## TimJ (Jan 22, 2013)

Good advise...........give yourself 6 weeks to get that load done.
Some here and some there


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## Jags (Jan 22, 2013)

Hydraulics are your friend. Lots of folks on this site like to whack at wood. Not me...not anymore. Did it for years. It will take a toll on the average person. I know, I know...we have some human machines on this site, but as the years stack up, many have gone over to a hydro splitter. Don't wait till it is too late and you have already done damage.

There is still enough involved to honestly call it "work" even with a hydro, so you don't have to give up your "man card" or feel less adequate in any way.


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## lukem (Jan 22, 2013)

My first year as a full time burner I put up 12 cord by hand.  Then I went hydro.  Buy the tools before you need them...not after.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 22, 2013)

If you were running your saw a lot then I wouldn't worry about the tinglies. That's normal from the long periods of vibration.   If the tinglies are from splitting then yeah, your body might be telling you you did a bit too much, but hey you aren't doing this every day, just every once in a while.  Put some heat on your arms, shoulders, back, drink plenty of water, do some stretching, ask your wife for a shoulder rub... Your body will heal-up, that's what they do.
A little splitting at a time is great for my body. Much better than sitting on my butt all day getting weak and stiff. If I do a big weekend like that I will be sore, stiff and even wake up with my arms asleep.  But that happens to me from anxiety and inactivity sitting at a desk all day too.
Hard work can be hard on the body, but it can also have big benefits in over-all fitness. 
After next year you'll know how much wood you need for a year. Looks like you have a good idea already.  You can't get 2 years ahead in one weekend  so just keep pecking away at it 'till your there. Your wood is drying very slowly here in mid-winter. The difference between getting it all stacked by the end of January and the end of February won't be noticable anyway.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

Interesting... last night I was thinking with all the winter winds it was wicking away moisture as the wind was more important than the sun. 





> Your wood is drying very slowly here in mid-winter. The difference between getting it all stacked by the end of January and the end of February won't be noticable anyway.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

It is true,  I won't put up 8 cords in one weekend (though still wondering if my cat stove, do I really need 6 cords? 30% wood savings?), but also with this 10 yarder in my side yard, it's just a big mess I need to clean up asap and not let it linger.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

If anything it would be an electric splitter.  I'm in the suburbs and I don't want to minimize the noise for the neighbors.  Also the cost.  A splitting ax is much cheaper, less maintenance, and quieter than a gas splitter (though more wear and tear on the body).

Are there any vertical, electric splitters?  With these big chunks of wood, I really wouldn't want to pick them up if possible and being to roll it under the splitter would be beneficial.  and if so, ~can~ they handle the big chunks vs. a gas splitter?  I have to think their cost would be less...


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## Jags (Jan 22, 2013)

So nobody mows their lawn with a gas mower?  A splitter isn't any louder.


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## Standingdead (Jan 22, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> If anything it would be an electric splitter.  I'm in the suburbs and I don't want to minimize the noise for the neighbors.  Also the cost.  A splitting ax is much cheaper, less maintenance, and quieter than a gas splitter (though more wear and tear on the body).
> 
> Are there any vertical, electric splitters?  With these big chunks of wood, I really wouldn't want to pick them up if possible and being to roll it under the splitter would be beneficial.  and if so, ~can~ they handle the big chunks vs. a gas splitter?  I have to think their cost would be less...



Just my opinion but gas powered hydro splitters have much more power than electric. That's important when splitting bigger rounds or species like elm. With some help and a good splitter you can split a cord or so of rounds an hour. I wouldn't worry about the neighbors much if your only running the splitter 5-10 hours a year (about as loud as a riding lawn mower). Maybe invite them over for a clambake and some beers (after they help stack of course  ). Splitting by hand is good too, as long as you have the time...


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## coaly (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd rather listen to a Honda for 2 hours than you wacking wood all day.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

It's funny, during the mowing months, the second one guy finishes mowing, it seems like that queues another guy to start mowing.  Perhaps in the Winter they are all welcoming the break.


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## RORY12553 (Jan 22, 2013)

coaly said:


> I'd rather listen to a Honda for 2 hours than you wacking wood all day.


 
My neighbors must hate me at times...hahahaha...in late april i will be off for about a week and plan on splitting a lot of wood by HAND


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## Woody Stover (Jan 22, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Previously my back had been a tiny bit sore, but nothing big. I think my back has adjusted well to swinging the Fiskars X27, I can swing all day now. The muscles in my hands would actually be sore from gripping the ax all day. Now they tolerate it well.....When I went to bed I kept waking up from tingling fingers last night. This morning the tingling is gone, but my hands are sore. I contribute this almost solely to this white collar guy using his chainsaw for all weekend long and the vibrations.


Yeah, the saw will take a toll as well. As far as splitting, it's all in the technique. I split for hours yesterday and hadn't done anything in weeks, so wasn't in shape for it. No tinglies today...actually might split some more in a while. I'm an old geezer, to boot. 

Here's what I've found to be helpful in minimizing effort expended and wear & tear on the body:

~Retain your lag. If you play golf, you know what I'm talking about. At start the downstroke the arms are straight but the handle is at a 90* angle to the arms. Make no effort to force the handle to come in line with the arms; The laws of angular momentum and the weight of the head will do that automatically as you approach impact. Visualize trying to pull the butt end of the handle into the ground. In this way, you can build the maximum amount of head speed. Force=mass x acceleration. By retaining the 90* angle, you get more acceleration, like a figure skater that spins faster as they pull their arms in. That's how the pros can pound a golf ball 300+ yards. Look online for some slow-motion swing video of a golf pro; It's a thing of beauty.  The speed at which your hands are moving will actually decrease close to impact as the angle is released and that speed is transferred to the head.

~Wear grippy gloves and grip lightly, using only as much pressure as needed to hold onto the handle..."like you are holding a baby bird," as Sam Snead said.  I will actually loosen my grip as I approach impact. This dramatically reduces the shock transmitted your hands, wrists and arms. You can also use a heavier head without straining. I mainly use a 6-pound maul; Plows through the tougher-splitting stuff with ease. That said, I don't kill myself on hard-splitting wood; I break out the hydraulics when I need to. I _really_ enjoy splitting by hand whenever possible, though. There's just something about whacking stuff with a big club... 

~Then just watch in amazement as your swing releases all that pent-up energy into the head, and the splits go flying. 

Take as much time now as you need for your body to recover and heal any damage; The wood isn't going anywhere; Slow but sure wins the race. And be aware of where your feet are at all times in relation to the ax! All this power is nothing to be taken lightly. 

See ya later; I'm going outside.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 22, 2013)

Bster, you'd done well. You'll do even better in the future because you'll know more about what you are doing and you'll find you don't actually work as hard but get more done.

Don't get too hung up on the 30% savings with the cat stove. One has to ask, 30% of what? Some folks enjoy a big savings while others don't. We happen to be one of the lucky ones and cut our wood needs in half with the cat stove. At the same time, I expect we would also have enjoyed a big savings with another type stove too. Half? Maybe so, maybe not. Shoot, we are now heating a larger space and burning even less wood than before. Insulation is the key.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

I guess it also matters if you were going from a "smoke dragon" to an EPA CAT a stove, or an EPA secondary burn stove to a CAT stove (all other variables constant).


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 22, 2013)

Definitely.


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## Bster13 (Jan 22, 2013)

Well today I'm back to normal and I just got in from stacking for an hour and a half.  While rest is what was called for, I just felt a little nutty with my wood yard such a mess and stacking is a different task than running a saw.....  so I laid out the free pallets I got and stacked for a bit.  

Oh...and just for kicks, my regular source of wood dropped off a pickup truck's worth this evening to add to the "to do" list.  Haha.  (But at least this stuff is generally already cut to manageable 18in lengths, and not 40in diameter stuff. )  Don't tell my fiancee.... I bet when she gets out there tomorrow morning she won't be able to tell a difference. 



> Bster, you'd done well. You'll do even better in the future because you'll know more about what you are doing and you'll find you don't actually work as hard but get more done.


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## MasterMech (Jan 23, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Don't tell my fiancee.... I bet when she gets out there tomorrow morning she won't be able to tell a difference.


 
Bet she's diggin the muscles swingin' that Fiskars will build.


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## Village Idiot (Jan 23, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> ~Wear grippy gloves and grip lightly, using only as much pressure as needed to hold onto the handle..."like you are holding a baby bird," as Sam Snead said.  I will actually loosen my grip as I approach impact. This dramatically reduces the shock transmitted your hands, wrists and arms.


 
When I first started cutting and splitting wood, I experienced the tingles in my hands. I experimented with my swing and came upon the technique Woody described. For gloves I settled on a relatively light General Purpose Glove (http://www.homedepot.com/buy/firm-grip-large-general-purpose-gloves-2001l.html) from HomeDepot. They have stretchy material in areas that let them fit my hands well. The palms are padded which reduces vibration and shock when my technique fails me. And at $10 a pair the price is not too bad. They are not a durable as a good pair of leather gloves, so I avoid using them if I am doing a lot of stacking or handling rough material.


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## Bster13 (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah...still waiting on the muscles.  Those come around the 5 cord total, right?



MasterMech said:


> Bet she's diggin the muscles swingin' that Fiskars will build.


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## Bster13 (Jan 23, 2013)

I usually (and this is prob. part of the reason I got myself into trouble last weekend, by sawing and splitting w/ no stacking) cut, split, then stack some to balance the work.  I've found rough wood chews up any gloves I thorw at them, so I end up with cheapy gloves like these and just replace them every so often:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ET9RYM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

Gel might be the ticket, but i think I'd get pissed at paying for them.  I think I'm just going to try and balance my work more.


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## Bster13 (Jan 23, 2013)

Only thing the fiancee said this morning when she left for work was "That's a F Ton of wood!" and I don't think she realized there was more wood there than over the weekend from my usual supplier.  Haha.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 23, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Well today I'm back to normal and I just got in from stacking for an hour and a half. While rest is what was called for, I just felt a little nutty with my wood yard such a mess and stacking is a different task than running a saw..... so I laid out the free pallets I got and stacked for a bit.
> 
> Oh...and just for kicks, my regular source of wood dropped off a pickup truck's worth this evening to add to the "to do" list. Haha. (But at least this stuff is generally already cut to manageable 18in lengths, and not 40in diameter stuff. ) Don't tell my fiancee.... I bet when she gets out there tomorrow morning she won't be able to tell a difference.


 

Sometimes things get in the way of what we want to do. Last spring is one good example here. We usually split in March or April (usually after snow melt) and stack immediately following the splitting. Don't remember for sure but it seems the splitting was finished in March but it was during the summer before I got it all stacked. Didn't like it but other things got in the way so that is the way it turned out. I worried not.


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## Dix (Jan 23, 2013)

Jags said:


> There is still enough involved to honestly call it "work" even with a hydro, so you don't have to give up your "man card" or feel less adequate in any way.


 
Thank you, from the very bottom of my heart, Jags. I feel *soooo *much better now 

To the OP, why not rent a splitter for the weekend, and invite the "lawn mower" club over to see the "toy". Many hands make for light work 

Nice job getting ahead !!


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## Bret Chase (Jan 23, 2013)

Jags said:


> Hydraulics are your friend. Lots of folks on this site like to whack at wood. Not me...not anymore. Did it for years. It will take a toll on the average person. I know, I know...we have some human machines on this site, but as the years stack up, many have gone over to a hydro splitter. Don't wait till it is too late and you have already done damage.
> 
> There is still enough involved to honestly call it "work" even with a hydro, so you don't have to give up your "man card" or feel less adequate in any way.


 
struggling to get a 20" locust round onto the splitter definitely classifies as work, IMHO....

In my last rental I was splitting wood by hand.. and my uncle took pity on me and gave me his 2' splitter that he made when I was a toddler... now the only time I swing an axe is to split up kindling :D


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## Bster13 (Jan 23, 2013)

Well I really want to keep the neighborhood happy (I'm the newbie on the block y'all), so if there is a vertical, electric splitter... I'm listening.


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## Bster13 (Jan 23, 2013)

Hrmmm.. http://www.woodsplittersdirect.com/...ter-HV20-4-2?gclid=CMmdj4vj_7QCFQSg4Aod0QIAPQ 

But at 1/2 the cost of the stove insert I don't even have yet ...uhhh...


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## Michael Golden (Jan 23, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Hrmmm.. http://www.woodsplittersdirect.com/...ter-HV20-4-2?gclid=CMmdj4vj_7QCFQSg4Aod0QIAPQ
> 
> But at 1/2 the cost of the stove insert I don't even have yet ...uhhh...



Price wise it is comparable to the TSC gas splitters just with less power. Might be the ticket for keeping the peace with the neighbors!


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## MasterMech (Jan 23, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Hrmmm.. http://www.woodsplittersdirect.com/...ter-HV20-4-2?gclid=CMmdj4vj_7QCFQSg4Aod0QIAPQ
> 
> But at 1/2 the cost of the stove insert I don't even have yet ...uhhh...


 
That one looks like a RamSplitter.  If you want a splitter thats as capable as a gas unit but electric, don't expect it to be any less expensive.  If you feel like playing mechanic for a day, most gas units are easily converted to electric.

DR Power also makes bigger electric splitters.


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## fabsroman (Jan 23, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> Also, and this totally could be my newbie self, bit looking at my woodpile I keep saying (and the fiancee in my ear) "there's no way I'd burn all that in a winter."
> 
> Most hearth.com members in my area state they use 3-4 cords of wood a year for my size home. I've been using this calculator to figure out how many cords I have:
> http://www.maine.gov/ag/firewood.html
> ...


 
And my dad was telling me this summer "You have 5 years of wood there" when I had 10 cords stacked. Yeah, he came over last week or so and was like "Wow, you went through a ton of wood. Now I see why you are anxious about getting more." Think I have already burned 3 cords easy.

With that said, it took me until the end of December to figure out the flue damper control and I was burning sweet gum and punky oak until that point. So, not only was the draft set too fast, but the wood was crap wood. Now, the stacks are ALL oak and locust with only a single tree of poplar in there somewhere. Going to have to find that poplar for the shoulder season in March/April.

Also, always better to have more wood and not need it than to run out in the middle of the winter.

Lastly, the savings on our utility bill has been huge and we keep the house at 75 degrees now instead of 68. I get to go around the house in shorts and not even feel a tiny bit cold.

Keep up the hard work and you will be rewarded, but I completely understand about the manual labor stuff. My rule of thumb is one hard day of manual labor followed by one to two days of pushing paper. Give the body some time to recover.


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## fabsroman (Jan 23, 2013)

lukem said:


> My first year as a full time burner I put up 12 cord by hand. Then I went hydro. Buy the tools before you need them...not after.


 
Exactly. No sense buying tools way down the road when you can buy them today and get 30+ years worth of use from them, make things easier, and have more free time.

As soon as the furnace was ordered, so were the saws. Just got my chain sharpener and 6 new chains for the MS660 yesterday. I cannot remember the last time I split a lot by hand. Must have been in my teens, and that was plenty enough to last me a lifetime. My dad bought a splitter about 18 years ago and trust me, it is still a TON of work to split wood, especially the large rounds.

With that said, going to try to build my own splitter probably this fall or next spring so I can get another stamp on my man card and so I can put a log lift on it because honestly, moving large rounds around to get them on my dad's vertical splitter's plate is too much work. The thing works great for the smaller stuff, but I want a log lift for the big stuff. Might lose a stamp for that statement.


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## eclecticcottage (Jan 24, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> struggling to get a 20" locust round onto the splitter definitely classifies as work, IMHO....


 
This is why you should get a splitter that can do verticle


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## Bret Chase (Jan 24, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> This is why you should get a splitter that can do verticle


 
i don't care for verticle splitters...


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## Bster13 (Jan 24, 2013)

If I bought a splitter, vertical is the way I'd go.  What is the downside?


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## Machria (Jan 24, 2013)

lukem said:


> Buy the tools before you need them...not after.



BEST advise I've seen in a while!   I used to do it all by hand, especially moving the rounds around...   Even when I got an electric splitter, I was still moving the rounds with no tools.  After reading a thread here about all the great tools that make it all easier, I splurged a few hundred bucks on tools.  Man has that made it easier, and faster, and I'm processing much more wood in the same time.  Back feels a lot better.

Regarding an electric splitter.  I have the cheapest one you can buy, Home Depot for 300 bucks.   I' had it 4 years now, countless cords of wood split.  You can almost not hear the thing 10' away from it.  I have yet to have a normal round I could not split of Red Oak, Black Locust, Maple, Pine, Beachwood, Birch, Cedar and lots of other un-identified stuff.  I saw normal rounds because I do have two large 20 to 24" knuckles I was unable to split with the splitter.  They are both laying in the woods in my back yard.  I also could not split those two pieces with an axe and grenade.  

The splitter and all my tools all paid for themselves with one cord of wood.


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## Cross Cut Saw (Jan 25, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> It's funny, during the mowing months, the second one guy finishes mowing, it seems like that queues another guy to start mowing. Perhaps in the Winter they are all welcoming the break.


 
That's what it's like in my neighborhood, it seems every Saturday and Sunday in the summer I can hear a mower going somewhere for 10-12 hours straight.

I've looked at some electric splitters but they seemed to be for the smaller stuff, I really don't split enough to justify the cost.  You could always rent one from the Home Depot, not sure what it costs but if you get the wood all lined up and ready to rock 'n roll I'm sure you could efficiently crank it out and return the thing before it cost too much.

I'm new to this too and scored a little maple the other day, I've never split a lot of wood and it's a learning experience for sure!  Some of the rounds are over 30" across and just figuring out how to tackle something like that with a maul can be a challenge.  The tree was taken down at my work and I've been spending a little time each day splitting it so I can haul it home split since almost every piece was too big to lift.


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## fabsroman (Jan 25, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> If I bought a splitter, vertical is the way I'd go. What is the downside?


 
The horizontal/vertical splitters are probably the cheapest on the market and they are pretty darn good. My dad has had one for over 15 years and we have split a ton of wood on it. I would guess 100+ cords have been split with that 25 ton Yard Machine by MTD and all of it has been split in the vertical position. The down side to a vertical splitter is that you cannot use a log lift on it and a log lift would be really, really nice on the 500 pound rounds because trying to get them onto a vertical splitter plate can be painful. The other downside to working with a vertical splitter is having to kneel down all day, or sit on a milk crate all day. I NEVER would have even dreamed of a horizontal splitter until I started thinking about buying a new splitter and some people on here gave me links to some high end splitters wherein I saw horizontals with a log lift.

I'll link some horizontal splitters for you. The first one is the one that I really want to build myself.





http://timberwolfcorp.com/log_splitters/video.asp?id=12


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## weatherguy (Jan 25, 2013)

When I was trying to get 3 years ahead I was in a similar position that your in now, I had rounds and limbs all over the place. I scored a few cords of some huge oak rounds and was splitting them with my fiskars, got 2 cords split but developed tendinitis in my elbow and shoulder, bought a small electric splitter used from a member here and split more of the rest of the wood with it, I had some rounds as big as yours, maybe even some bigger and it was no problem to get it on the splitter since they're so low to the ground and split those rounds no problem.
I would still spend an hour or so some days with the fiskars but it was nice to go to the electric splitter when I was sore. Ive since bought a gas powered splitter so lifes even easier.
As far as vertical electric thats not too pricey, Ive seen these around used

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/for/3428855898.html


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## smokinj (Jan 25, 2013)

All you can do is pace yourself. I have a goal (Was a cord) Now its a half cord in a day once a week. Cutting season only. Game time starts This Sunday at 8:00 A.M. Got a score on a cemtary all rounds. Will set up the splitter and one guy just making runs back and forth two splitting.


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## Machria (Jan 25, 2013)

One more comment regarding Verticle vs Horizontal splitters;

If you often have a lot of un-even / angled cut rounds, they can be difficult to get in and should in a Verticle splitter.  Whereas a Horizontal splitter you just drop it on, and it has nowhere to go.  Almost ALL my rounds are un-even and or angle cuts.   I don't know how I could ever split with a Verticle.

Check these out:

http://www.ramsplitter.com/

.


.


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## muncybob (Jan 25, 2013)

Not really understanding how almost all rounds would be uneven like that, but I will say there was no way I was splitting my huge a** white oak rounds in any other way than vertical last week! My preferred method is horizontal...off the tailgate and onto the splitter. But, as my buddy Clint said...a  man's gotta know his limitations.


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## billb3 (Jan 25, 2013)

One of my neighbors rented a splitter and the splitter droning on was a lot quieter than the pressure washers all these mcmansion owners run at least once a year washing the mold and mildew off the vinyl siding.
What was noticeable was the sound of cracking and popping white pine.
Another neighbor runs a sawzall  and circ saw cutting up pallets till about 8 in his driveway just about every night.

I've rolled some big uns on top of a little electric splitter, haven't crushed it yet .


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## Machria (Jan 25, 2013)

muncybob said:


> Not really understanding how almost all rounds would be uneven like that, but I will say there was no way I was splitting my huge a** white oak rounds in any other way than vertical last week! My preferred method is horizontal...off the tailgate and onto the splitter. But, as my buddy Clint said...a  man's gotta know his limitations.



Between me being a terrible chain saw operator, a bent bar and screwed up chain, and scrounging miss-cut wood after the hurricane, its rare I split a piece that the end is straight on!

Yes, alread bought a new bar and chain, just havent stuck it on yet.  Maybee tonight....


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## fabsroman (Jan 25, 2013)

Machria said:


> Between me being a terrible chain saw operator, a bent bar and screwed up chain, and scrounging miss-cut wood after the hurricane, its rare I split a piece that the end is straight on!
> 
> Yes, alread bought a new bar and chain, just havent stuck it on yet. Maybee tonight....


 
Yeah, I would straighten out those mis-cuts from Sandy and then split them.

Now, bending a bar while cutting, I have no idea how that happens, but I guess it is possible. I would guess the chain would still be good unless you really bent the heck out of it too. Now, I can see poorly cut wood if the chain is sharpened unevenly and it pulls to one side or the other.


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## MasterMech (Jan 25, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> The horizontal/vertical splitters are probably the cheapest on the market and they are pretty darn good.


 
That's it right there. Vertical is the least expensive way to handle big rounds.  You could set-up a ramp for a low-slung horizontal machine but you're still working too low to the ground.  Vertical is a breeze if you have 2 guys (true of vertical or horizontal splitting), one running the machine, the other in charge of in-feed/out-feed. 

But once you've run a machine with a log lift, you'll be forever ruined for anything else.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 25, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> i don't care for verticle splitters...


 

Why? My bet is that you have not run them correctly or else saw somebody else who didn't know what he was doing.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 25, 2013)

Bster13 said:


> If I bought a splitter, vertical is the way I'd go. What is the downside?


 


fabsroman said:


> The horizontal/vertical splitters are probably the cheapest on the market and they are pretty darn good. My dad has had one for over 15 years and we have split a ton of wood on it. I would guess 100+ cords have been split with that 25 ton Yard Machine by MTD and all of it has been split in the vertical position. The down side to a vertical splitter is that you cannot use a log lift on it and a log lift would be really, really nice on the 500 pound rounds because trying to get them onto a vertical splitter plate can be painful. The other downside to working with a vertical splitter is having to kneel down all day, or sit on a milk crate all day. I NEVER would have even dreamed of a horizontal splitter until I started thinking about buying a new splitter and some people on here gave me links to some high end splitters wherein I saw horizontals with a log lift.


 
And our 20 ton MTD with 5 hp B&S engine has split well over 200 cord and is over 20 years old. And I'd bet there have not been more than 4 logs split horizontally on this machine.

Downside is you can't use a log lift? To me that is an upside! It is no more difficult getting a log onto a vertical splitter than onto a log lift! In addition, I believe most log lifts sell for $800 or more. So why spend $800 if it is not needed. As for getting those big rounds onto the splitter, that is where you use cant hooks. If you are cutting logs that heavy for sure you need a cant hook after you cut the log so it is not any additional expense. A cant hook can be man's best friend at times.

As for sitting on a milk crate all day; definitely if you don't sit right it can be uncomfortable. The way I do it, there is no discomfort and the best benefit is that I can use leverage to help turn the logs. If it is not the right height that you want, raise or lower it! That is simple enough. I tried sitting higher but it definitely did not work as well. But if all you want is to stand while splitting and have a cool tool, then get the log lift. It is your dollars.





Machria said:


> One more comment regarding Verticle vs Horizontal splitters;
> 
> If you often have a lot of un-even / angled cut rounds, they can be difficult to get in and should in a Verticle splitter. Whereas a Horizontal splitter you just drop it on, and it has nowhere to go. Almost ALL my rounds are un-even and or angle cuts. I don't know how I could ever split with a Verticle.


 
There is absolutely no problem splitting a round that is cut on an angle. It is simple and easy on a vertical splitter. I split a goodly number of logs every year and have never had a problem doing it.


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## fabsroman (Jan 26, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> And our 20 ton MTD with 5 hp B&S engine has split well over 200 cord and is over 20 years old. And I'd bet there have not been more than 4 logs split horizontally on this machine.
> 
> Downside is you can't use a log lift? To me that is an upside! It is no more difficult getting a log onto a vertical splitter than onto a log lift! In addition, I believe most log lifts sell for $800 or more. So why spend $800 if it is not needed. As for getting those big rounds onto the splitter, that is where you use cant hooks. If you are cutting logs that heavy for sure you need a cant hook after you cut the log so it is not any additional expense. A cant hook can be man's best friend at times.
> 
> ...


 
I am going to build the splitter, so I seriously doubt the log lift will end up costing me $800. At the end of the day, after I build this thing I will be able to give an opinion based upon my experience of using both machines. After having split that 36" oak and hurting for a week afterward, I need to try something else other than a vertical splitter to see if it makes a difference, and I already have a cant hook. If it turns out that vertical is the way to go, I'll sell the splitter I build and go buy a Tractor Supply/Home Depot special.

As far as splitting a round that is cut on an angle, it all depends if one side is flat or not. If both sides are angled, it can be pretty tricky. If one side is flat/square, then it is a piece of cake almost 99% of the time.


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## Bret Chase (Jan 26, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Why? My bet is that you have not run them correctly or else saw somebody else who didn't know what he was doing.


I don't care for them because I do not like spending all my time stooped over.  I don't care for them.. Whom ever does.. good on you....


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## eclecticcottage (Jan 27, 2013)

My husband has herniated discs in his back and runs the splitter verticle 100% of the time.  I bring the rounds and he rolls them on.  WAY easier than bending over for each round, which you'd do even with a log lift.  Every piece in this pile was split verticle.


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## fabsroman (Jan 27, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> My husband has herniated discs in his back and runs the splitter verticle 100% of the time. I bring the rounds and he rolls them on. WAY easier than bending over for each round, which you'd do even with a log lift. Every piece in this pile was split verticle.


 
And how exactly do you get the rounds to the vertical splitter without bending over and rolling them to the splitter or bending over, picking them up, and carrying them to the splitter. Yeah, I never thought I would ever consider a horizontal splitter until I saw a log lift and work table on one. The log lift and work table changed my mind enough to make me want to give a horizontal splitter a shot with those options on it.


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## eclecticcottage (Jan 27, 2013)

If he had to do it himself, he'd bring the splitter to the pile...if you pile it right, you can have a bunch within reach.  Plus unless you're splitting small rounds, you're going to have to resplit, so either you need a place to put the bigger chunks while you split them down that's the same height, or you'll bend down for each piece, meaning a lot more bending.

Its personal preference.  We prefer one that can run either way, although we only use it verticle.


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## fabsroman (Jan 27, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> If he had to do it himself, he'd bring the splitter to the pile...if you pile it right, you can have a bunch within reach. Plus unless you're splitting small rounds, *you're going to have to resplit, so either you need a place to put the bigger chunks while you split them down that's the same height, or you'll bend down for each piece, meaning a lot more bending*.
> 
> Its personal preference. We prefer one that can run either way, although we only use it verticle.


 
Or you might have read where I said "work table". The work table comes right after the splitting wedge and holds the pieces right there. You can either let them lay there until they are pushed off the table by the next set of splits or you can bring the larger ones around to be split again.

What I would love to hear is experiences from people that have used BOTH a vertical splitter and a horizontal splitter WITH a log lift and work table. Like I said earlier, I never would have dreamed of using a horizontal splitter until I saw one with a log lift and work table. I can guarantee that the majority of homeowner wood processors use the horizontal/vertical units from the big box stores WITHOUT the option of a log lift and/or work table. I would have to settle for one of those too if I was not going to build the splitter myself. The splitter I want with the log lift and work table is $6,000. Hard to justify that cost when all I am doing is splitting wood for personal use.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 27, 2013)

Horizontal or vertical . . . it's all good . . . go with whatever is most comfortable for you. There is no right or wrong way . . . well maybe if you were attempting to split diagonally. 

Me . . . I prefer horizontal . . . it's easier for me . . . but that said . . . I like the option of going vertical on occasion for some of those wicked big pieces.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 27, 2013)

I rented a 30 ton splitter for $30 a day. A good move since that was 3 years ago and im still not out of wood. WHen i want more wood ill pile up 3-6 cords worth of rounds and rent another splitter.


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## fabsroman (Jan 27, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I rented a 30 ton splitter for $30 a day. A good move since that was 3 years ago and im still not out of wood. WHen i want more wood ill pile up 3-6 cords worth of rounds and rent another splitter.


 
On the stuff I have been getting lately, I would not be able to move it without splitting it before hand. Most of it has been 36"+ oak and now I am looking at something in the 60" range. I would have to rent a crane, tractor, or skid steer to move this stuff without splitting it beforehand.


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## Machria (Jan 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> On the stuff I have been getting lately, I would not be able to move it without splitting it before hand. Most of it has been 36"+ oak and now I am looking at something in the 60" range. I would have to rent a crane, tractor, or skid steer to move this stuff without splitting it beforehand.


 
Stuff that big I leave behind.  Just tooooooo much work moving that stuff around.


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## fabsroman (Jan 27, 2013)

Machria said:


> Stuff that big I leave behind. Just tooooooo much work moving that stuff around.


 
Well, somebody has to clean it up and on the last tree that size we got 4 pretty good truck loads from the larger rounds that nobody wanted to deal with.


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## Machria (Jan 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I would straighten out those mis-cuts from Sandy and then split them.
> 
> Now, bending a bar while cutting, I have no idea how that happens, but I guess it is possible. I would guess the chain would still be good unless you really bent the heck out of it too. Now, I can see poorly cut wood if the chain is sharpened unevenly and it pulls to one side or the other.


 
The bar got pinched in a really heavy oak tree I was falling which was 1/2 way down, and tangled on some other tree's....   trying to get it down, I got caught up in it and had to jack the tree up with my trucks jack tp get the bar out.    The chain was trashed from hitting the street a a few times trying to cut up some sandy wood on the street.  What, a chainsaw can't cut blacktop?    

Anywho, changed the bar and chain today, and MAN is it cutting better.


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## Machria (Jan 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Well, somebody has to clean it up and on the last tree that size we got 4 pretty good truck loads from the larger rounds that nobody wanted to deal with.


 
Yes, "somebody", and as far as I can see, there is no "Machria" in somebody!


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 28, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> *And how exactly do you get the rounds to the vertical splitter without bending over and rolling them to the splitter or bending over, picking them up, and carrying them to the splitter.* Yeah, I never thought I would ever consider a horizontal splitter until I saw a log lift and work table on one. The log lift and work table changed my mind enough to make me want to give a horizontal splitter a shot with those options on it.


 
You, sir may be excellent in your office but you have much to learn out in the woods. Your description of how one would split wood vertically is just plain baloney. Never would I be burning wood if I had to work the way you describe! Furthermore, if you want to work with a log lift, it sounds as if you have the very same identical problem. That is, bending over and rolling them to the splitter and bending over to pick them up and carry to the log lift.

You've no doubt seen one of my best friends whenever you see a good cant hook. Well, here is another of my good friends:



This is called a hookeroon or pickeroon. Mine is 36" in length. I use it in the woods and I use it when splitting. Especially when splitting! I can stay sitting and split wood for a long time without having to stand and roll a log to me. Just reach out with this little jewel and get what you want.

As for that bending and especially the lifting, that is something I do not do and I split all our wood vertically. I'd love to have you come some time and learn how to work a bit more efficient. But do not expect me to work as you described. I also will save a lot of dollars by not needing a log lift. Nice toy but totally unnecessary.


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## fabsroman (Jan 28, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> You, sir may be excellent in your office but you have much to learn out in the woods. Your description of how one would split wood vertically is just plain baloney. Never would I be burning wood if I had to work the way you describe! Furthermore, if you want to work with a log lift, it sounds as if you have the very same identical problem. That is, bending over and rolling them to the splitter and bending over to pick them up and carry to the log lift.
> 
> You've no doubt seen one of my best friends whenever you see a good cant hook. Well, here is another of my good friends:
> 
> ...


 
I guess we can agree to disagree. However, I am willing to try something new to me and see if it really makes a difference in efficiency. I use the cant hook to put the large logs in a position to roll them. At 36", I really do not have to bend over to roll them to the splitter. Getting them on the splitter plate is an entirely different matter, and if you want to tell me that you can sit on your milk crate and manipulate a 500 pound log without getting off your milk crate, just by using hand tools like a cant hook and pickeroon, I am always willing to watch a video to see it. If you can indeed split 36" oak logs weighing 500 pounds while sitting on a milk crate the entire time and never bending over or standing up to deal with them, I would love to see the video. Seriously, I can follow a video pretty good. Looked at a couple last night about adjusting the carb on saws and they seemed pretty simple. Been watching all the ones I can find about splitting wood and still cannot understand how people can split 2+ cords of wood in 6 hours solo with a vertical splitter. If I can figure out how to do that, my life will become a lot easier as far as this firewood stuff is concerned.

Also, when it comes to rounds 24" or less, I really do not have an issue throwing them on the splitter plate, splitting them in half, and then going from there. The main issue is with the rounds that are over 24" in diameter.


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## Machria (Jan 28, 2013)

fabsroman,
I have a really easy solution for you!  To split 36"+ rounds that weigh 500+ lbs, I do it sooooo easy.  This is a great trick I can't believe more folks don't use it.  There are two methods:
1.  Pay somebody else to do it for you.
2.  Don't take them that big!


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## fabsroman (Jan 28, 2013)

Machria said:


> fabsroman,
> I have a really easy solution for you! To split 36"+ rounds that weigh 500+ lbs, I do it sooooo easy. This is a great trick I can't believe more folks don't use it. There are two methods:
> 1. Pay somebody else to do it for you.
> 2. Don't take them that big!


 
Hey, I have a really good trick for you to deal with the entire firewood situation. Makes it really, really easy and fast. Just pay the electric company, heating oil company, propane company, or natural gas company to heat your house. Walla, you don't need to touch another piece of firewood whatsoever. If I really get sick of this wood stuff, I will just run the furnace on natural gas and pay for it. If I am ever so busy that I can bill $165 an hour all day long, all year long, you can bet I will no longer be cutting firewood to heat the house other than for the challenge that it brings. Just like my desire to build a splitter and a trailer. I could easily buy them and avoid buying a MIG welder and learning to weld with it versus the stick welder, but I like the challenge. Could have paid somebody to install the furnace too.

Then again, I tend not to pay all these people because I am not busy 24/7 and I like keeping the money in the bank and learning how to do new things. I split the 36" stuff because I can do it. Is it as simple as taking the 18" logs and smaller? Nope. You need some muscle for the big stuff. However, there are so many people that leave all the larger stuff behind because they do not have the ability to deal with it that it allows me to split and take the wood when I feel like it. I had a lady hold 36" white oak for me for 2 weeks after I spent just one day working on it. Took the rest of the tree the next day I worked on it. I am going to start working on a 5 foot red oak on Wednesday because nobody is willing to do it. I am guessing that just from that tree I will get 3 to 4 cords of wood in a couple days, which is what I use in a year to heat the house. Another guy has two 36" oaks that he wants me to come take a look at to see if I can get them out of his backyard. Did I mention that all these trees are oak. I will have over 10 cords of oak when I am done with this stuff and 2 cords of locust in the racks. So, there are advantages and disadvantages to taking the big stuff.


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## osagebow (Jan 28, 2013)

Well done - take 'er easy Bster


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## Machria (Jan 28, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Hey, I have a really good trick for you to deal with the entire firewood situation. Makes it really, really easy and fast. Just pay the electric company, heating oil company, propane company, or natural gas company to heat your house. Walla, you don't need to touch another piece of firewood whatsoever. If I really get sick of this wood stuff, I will just run the furnace on natural gas and pay for it. If I am ever so busy that I can bill $165 an hour all day long, all year long, you can bet I will no longer be cutting firewood to heat the house other than for the challenge that it brings. Just like my desire to build a splitter and a trailer. I could easily buy them and avoid buying a MIG welder and learning to weld with it versus the stick welder, but I like the challenge. Could have paid somebody to install the furnace too.
> 
> Then again, I tend not to pay all these people because I am not busy 24/7 and I like keeping the money in the bank and learning how to do new things. I split the 36" stuff because I can do it. Is it as simple as taking the 18" logs and smaller? Nope. You need some muscle for the big stuff. However, there are so many people that leave all the larger stuff behind because they do not have the ability to deal with it that it allows me to split and take the wood when I feel like it. I had a lady hold 36" white oak for me for 2 weeks after I spent just one day working on it. Took the rest of the tree the next day I worked on it. I am going to start working on a 5 foot red oak on Wednesday because nobody is willing to do it. I am guessing that just from that tree I will get 3 to 4 cords of wood in a couple days, which is what I use in a year to heat the house. Another guy has two 36" oaks that he wants me to come take a look at to see if I can get them out of his backyard. Did I mention that all these trees are oak. I will have over 10 cords of oak when I am done with this stuff and 2 cords of locust in the racks. So, there are advantages and disadvantages to taking the big stuff.


 
You forgot to mention the amount of time you spend at the Chiropractor?   

I "could do it".  But I prefer not to.    I am looking at 10 coords of Oak and Black locust right now, none of which required lifting anything larger than about a 25 or 30" diameter round.  Most was 6 to 20" rounds. * I left you all the 36"ers! *

Hey, go for it!  More power to ya man.  I wish I had the equipment and space to do it myself.


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## eclecticcottage (Jan 29, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Or you might have read where I said "work table".


 
And you might read, in the very part you quoted, where I said "so either you need a place to put the bigger chunks while you split them down that's the same height".

I'm not trying to argue, you asked what we did, and I answered.  It's all personal preference, on how to split.  By hand, with an electric spliter, with a gas splitter, dynamite...

I want to know how people are getting 500lb rounds home to even split them.  We've been considering a trailer with something yet to be decided on to skid them onto it for the bigger pieces, to save on lifting.  I like heating with wood, I certainly like the savings of it, but I'm not wanting to do extra damage to ourselves to do it!!  I'd still save money buying wood if I had to, over propane, but I'd rather not beat myself up to that point!


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## Woody Stover (Jan 29, 2013)

You're _all_ soft.


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## Bster13 (Jan 29, 2013)

I was looking at a 16-tom electric splitter for ease of maintenance and use in suburbia (close to neighbors).  It was a little over $1k.  It would piss me off if I invested all that only to get stuck on a gnarly piece of wood though.


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## muncybob (Jan 29, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> I want to know how people are getting 500lb rounds home to even split them. We've been considering a trailer with something yet to be decided on to skid them onto it for the bigger pieces, to save on lifting.


 
I'm not sure if the 30+" oak rounds I obtained lately weigh 500 lbs, but they were too heavy whatever they weighed. My solution is either I noodle them with the saw to sizes I can manage or if I happen to have my buddy's trailer with me I roll them into it. This works so well that I'm keeping an eye out for a trailer with a ramp. I can manage even large rounds without risking injury. Now, when I get them home it's a careful roll off the trailer to get them as close to the splitter as possible leaving room to work and I too get on my milk crate. With this said my preferred splitting method is horizontal. I use to unload my truck onto the ground and then split. Now the truck gets unloaded from the tailgate directly onto the splitter, no bending at all. If you cut and split long enough you will find your own preferred method I'm sure.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

OH FER CRIPES SAKE....






Dealing with the big ones don't get any easier.

Edit to add:
It doesn't matter if you split vertical or horizontal. Its a comfort thing. There is no way that I could sit on a crate and work the splitter vertically. It would kill my lower back in short order. Just as Dennis states that there is no reason to stand and split...it is simply preference. Dennis is my senior by a few, has had health issues and deals with stuff I don't. I am 6' tall and weigh about 240 and have the upper body strength of a gorilla. Different situations require different approaches.

I still do not see an easy or efficient way to take a round like the one in my pic and drop it on its cut face and slip it onto the pad of a vertical splitter. Split then move...repeat. But if it works...Split on.
(I would guess the one in my pic to be around 400 pounds and I have split bigger/heavier)


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## Machria (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags,
I dig that splitter with lift.  That is what I want, but with an electric 16 ton motor like the Ram splitter.   Somebody buy me one and drop ship it please!


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

They are made 4 blocks from where I am sitting as I type this.


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## TimJ (Jan 29, 2013)

I had to deal with some big ones this past weekend. I simply used a wedge and either halfed them or quartered them to a weight that I could lift them comfortably.


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## Machria (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> They are made 4 blocks from where I am sitting as I type this.


 
What is, the Rams ?


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

Machria said:


> What is, the Rams ?


 
Ramsplitter


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## Machria (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> Ramsplitter


 
They don't sell a lift for the electric splitter, do they?    Get me a KILLER deal on one man!  Hook a dude up!


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

They do appear to have a log lift option for $745, but I would never pay that considering there are much cheaper options.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> OH FER CRIPES SAKE....
> 
> View attachment 91402
> 
> ...


 
Jags,

On page two of this thread I posted pics of 2 home made splitters like that and a link to the TimberWolf equivalent. That is the premise of what I want to build. Planning on going with a 22 gallon pump, Honda engine, 30 ton ram with somewhere around an 8 second cycle time, an adjustable 4 way and 6 way wedge, a large work table, and a log lift. If I had the upper body strength of a gorilla, I could probably deal with the vertical splitter and all the lifting required to put the big wood on the splitter plate. After the last day of splitting, wherein my 6' 2" brother in-law built like an ox had a much easier time getting the logs on the splitter and my legs were sore for a couple of days, I just have to give a log lift a shot to see if it makes life easier. If that doesn't work, then I am going to sell the splitter and try something else.

I also liked the idea of rolling the logs right off the truck and onto a horizontal splitter, until I thought about having to get the logs into the truck in the first place. The entire premise behind splitting the logs on the first touch is to reduce their weight and make them easier to move around. I can deal with 10 pounds all day long. It is the 500 pound stuff that kills me quick.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> And you might read, in the very part you quoted, where I said "so either you need a place to put the bigger chunks while you split them down that's the same height".
> 
> I'm not trying to argue, you asked what we did, and I answered. It's all personal preference, on how to split. By hand, with an electric spliter, with a gas splitter, dynamite...
> 
> I want to know how people are getting 500lb rounds home to even split them. We've been considering a trailer with something yet to be decided on to skid them onto it for the bigger pieces, to save on lifting. I like heating with wood, I certainly like the savings of it, but I'm not wanting to do extra damage to ourselves to do it!! I'd still save money buying wood if I had to, over propane, but I'd rather not beat myself up to that point!


 
Yeah, I don't want to argue either. I am all ears and eyes for easier ways to process wood. I think the horizontal splitter with a log lift and work table will work for me because the vertical one is killing me on the large stuff.

About the only way I know of to get the 500 pound rounds home is to roll them into a trailer. Personally, if I cannot split the big stuff where it is, I am not going to deal with it. I have no desire to put those large rounds on their side more than once and roll them more than once. They need to turn into firewood size quickly. Firewood size is a lot easier to move around. I'll post pics of tomorrow's rounds because I think they are some of the largest ones I have ever dealt with. Tomorrow is going to result in a lot of firewood.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

You do realize that my splitter has a log lifter??

Oh - 22 gallon pump will not run a 5" ram (assuming 24 inch stroke) at 8 seconds.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> You do realize that my splitter has a log lifter??
> 
> Oh - 22 gallon pump will not run a 5" ram (assuming 24 inch stroke) at 8 seconds.


 
Yeah, I am well aware of the fact that your splitter has a log lift, as do all 3 examples that I gave on page 2 of this thread. Hence, the reference to the splitters on page 2 being like yours.

The TimberWolf TW-6 has a 28 ton ram and 8 second cycle time with a Honda GX630 and 22 gallon pump.

http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/pdf/TWSplitMultiFold_022012.pdf

Is it possible to get 28 tons of force from a 4 inch ram? I'll have to look into this and try to understand the physics behind it. Lots more learning to do to design this splitter and then even more to weld it all together. Probably going to take me 14 months to accomplish, just like the furnace install.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Is it possible to get 28 tons of force from a 4 inch ram?


Not unless you had special components. Most splitter parts are rated for a max 3000 psi (and some not that high). A 4" ram at 3000 psi will produce 48,000 PSI or 24 tons max.

The TW6 uses a 5 inch ram (and so do I).

For quality entertainment, go here and play around:
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_speed.htm


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> Not unless you had special components. Most splitter parts are rated for a max 3000 psi (and some not that high). A 4" ram at 3000 psi will produce 48,000 PSI or 24 tons max.


 
Thanks for the info.

Alright, looks like this will eventually require a spreadsheet to figure out what I am going to need cylinder, pump, and engine wise. Not dead set on an 8 second cycle time, but would like around 30 tons with a cycle time of 12 seconds or less. This will be a good challenge and good for stimulating the brain.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

See the addition to my last post.  I posted a link to a calc that will do the work for you.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> See the addition to my last post. I posted a link to a calc that will do the work for you.


 
Thanks, I completely overlooked the link and the fact that your splitter and the TW-6 both use a 5 inch ram.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Thanks, I completely overlooked the link and the fact that your splitter and the TW-6 both use a 5 inch ram.


 

Naaa...you didn't miss anything.  I was adding it as you posted.
Fun calculator, eh?


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## maple1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Like most stuff in life, things come down to preferences & individual situations.

Somewhere along the processing line, you will need to lift the wood up. Whether that is with a lift before you split (then slide from an elevated table to a pile), or after you split my lifting a lighter load that was split on the ground, no one is right & the other wrong. They're both good solutions.

BTW, why would it be necessary to get a huge round upright on its end before splitting vertically? Why not just roll the round under the wedge & split through the bark for the first go? It's all about reducing the grunt effort and there are countless ways to do that in countless situations.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

Jags said:


> Naaa...you didn't miss anything. I was adding it as you posted.
> Fun calculator, eh?


 
lol - already looked at the calculator. With a 5" cylinder and 2" rod with a 22 gallon pump, I can get a 10.3 second cycle time on a 24" stroke. That is plenty fast for me.


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## Jags (Jan 29, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Why not just roll the round under the wedge & split through the bark for the first go?


 
How would you do this on a large round (say 48")?


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Like most stuff in life, things come down to preferences & individual situations.
> 
> Somewhere along the processing line, you will need to lift the wood up. Whether that is with a lift before you split (then slide from an elevated table to a pile), or after you split my lifting a lighter load that was split on the ground, no one is right & the other wrong. They're both good solutions.
> 
> BTW, why would it be necessary to get a huge round upright on its end before splitting vertically? Why not just roll the round under the wedge & split through the bark for the first go? It's all about reducing the grunt effort and there are countless ways to do that in countless situations.


 
If the round is not sitting on the splitter plate, the splitter ends up lifting itself off the ground a lot of the time. Depends on the type of wood too. Might be able to get away without having the round on the splitter plate when it comes to straight red oak, but as soon as a piece gets knarly like a lot of the white oak I split at the end of December, the wood needs to be on the splitter plate or the ram will just drive the entire splitter upward without splitting the wood.

So, either you roll the rounds to the splitter and try to drop them on the splitter plate for that first split, or you try to shove the splitter underneath the round as you lift it up. Moving the I-beam isn't always easy either, but I think I am going to try that method tomorrow.

When it comes to lifting anything, I can lift light loads and carry them all day long. It is the really heavy stuff that kills me. I am more of an endurance athlete than a power lifter.


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## legrandice (Jan 29, 2013)

I use scraps of granite counter top next to the foot on my vertical splitter.  It's almost the same height.  The wood really spins and moves easily on the polished side.  They do tend to break when I pound a huge round down...but I have plenty.


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## fabsroman (Jan 29, 2013)

legrandice said:


> I use scraps of granite counter top next to the foot on my vertical splitter. It's almost the same height. The wood really spins and moves easily on the polished side. They do tend to break when I pound a huge round down...but I have plenty.


 
Good idea. Maybe a 2x3 or 2x4 by the splitter plate will work. I have a couple pieces of granite lying around, but I am not in the business of fabricating granite counter tops and my two clients that did that went out of business several years ago with the down turn. So, no easy granite scraps for me to obtain. Really might do the 2x4's though. Going to give that a shot tomorrow.


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## MasterMech (Jan 30, 2013)

The problem with the REALLY big rounds (36"+) is controlling them. If one were to split completely the halves can weigh 150 lbs+ each. They are going to do damage on the way down. So I wouldn't retire the sledge/wedge just yet. Also wouldn't hesitate to noodle any rounds I couldn't move comfortably via cant hook or hand truck.

Fabs, be careful with that big pump and a log lift. You're gonna want a FCV or at the very least an orifice to slow that small cylinder down. Otherwise it might become useful for loading the truck!  (Albeit a bit hard on the bed.... ) Also watch your fluid velocity/line size for reasons of heat and component life. Gonna need big, expensive, hoses/fittings/ports to run 22 GPM efficiently. Valve block will have to be rated for that kind of flow as well. Going big is great in theary but if you're buying components to put it all together it adds up fast.

You could run a 16 GPM pump on a 5" cylinder and still be sub-15 seconds with the cycle. Running a 4/6 way wedge will more than make up for the lost cycle time and you don't sacrifice power. There are other ways to manipulate the cycle time as well. Rod size will be a good one, bigger the rod, the faster the cylinder will retract, without sacrificing power on the push stroke. 16 GPM, 5" cyl, 24" stroke with a 3" rod will yield a 12.6 second cycle (in theory). Be prepared to pay for the larger rod sizes tho. Backhoe or loader salvage may be the best source. 16 GPM based machine could run a smaller engine/less fuel too, although I fantasize about a splitter powered by a Yanmar 3 cyl _gas_ engine robbed from a Deere front-mount or 322 garden tractor. (Oh baby..... )


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## Jags (Jan 30, 2013)

For some of the very reasons that MasterMech stated, I stuck with a 16 GPM pump.  I will say this though...If that 16 gpm pump ever croaks...I am going to 28 GPM and bigger engine.


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## legrandice (Jan 30, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Good idea. Maybe a 2x3 or 2x4 by the splitter plate will work. I have a couple pieces of granite lying around, but I am not in the business of fabricating granite counter tops and my two clients that did that went out of business several years ago with the down turn. So, no easy granite scraps for me to obtain. Really might do the 2x4's though. Going to give that a shot tomorrow.


 
I got my scraps for a project that never happened.  They came from a local granite company.  They had a huge pile of pieces out back and I was able to take as many as I want.


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