# Seeking info on a double barrel (30 inside 55) stove



## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Ok, so this will only be used in my 12ft x 20 ft shed. And I will be present at all times.I am using single wall pipe to the wall thimble, then class 3 chimney pipe thru and up the outside. The stove is a new 55 gal drum with a inner 30 gal drum on the inside. I have built a secondary burn unit out of stainless, that will have ceramic blanket ins between it and the top of the 30 gal drum.The secondary burn tubes enter thru the bottom of the 55 gal and  the 30 gal drums. They then run thru the 30gal drum to the front, up to the top, then back to the rear of the drum to a manifold ,a rectangle manifold where the secondary burn tubes form a loop to the front of the stove. I had read on a site that told how to build this stove to place sand between the two bbls to create mass to hold the heat, as well as keep the outside bbl from getting way to hot. I used concrete and vermiculite in the bottom to space the one drum in the other, and to fill the gap between the space between the bottom of the drums. Would it be good to insulate inside the 30 gal drum with Firebrick or ceramic blank to keep heat inside for the secondary burn? Or will the sand between the barrels act as an insulator? Sorry for the long post, but wanted to give as much info as I could.....Thanks, rsbhunter


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## jtb51b (Mar 1, 2015)

If you insulate between the barrels you will hold heat IN the stove. This will cause you to not reach the full glowing potential of the barrell stove. Also, by insulating you will cause the inner barrel to run VERY hot and probably burn it out fairly quickly..Be prepared to replace barrels yearly, and (unless you have massive clearances) possibly a shop.  Are there not a lot of older (read CHEEP) smoke dragons available in your area? Around here you can buy an old clunker for a couple hundred, and save a LOT of time, effort and money for the same result.

Jason


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Thanks for the reply.....I don't think I'm going to need to fire it super hot , and I'm not planning to. As to the burn through, that's why I am thinking of running the 1/2" ceramic blanket probably halfway up the inside with rigidizer to bond it to the barrel and keep it out of the fire. I don't want to get caught in the trap between insulation and heat output, but will do what is best..... As to buying a used one, this is for my retirement place in Colo. , I am in S.E New Mexico now, and the area I'm in doesn't use much wood burners, and the ones that are for sale must be gold! (For the price) anyway building the double bbl stove has been a fun project....I have new P.E super 27 for the cabin I'll start building this spring...so even if the bbl only works so-so , no big loss...rsbhunter


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## jtb51b (Mar 1, 2015)

Good luck with it, with time and effort it may do the job really well.. 

Jason


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## Simonkenton (Mar 1, 2015)

I had a Sotz 55 gallon double drum stove. You bought the Sotz kit, and put a door, legs and pipe flange on the lower barrel. The fire burned in the lower barrel and the smoke went through a little 4 inch pipe into the top barrel, the out of the top of the top barrel. The top barrel was a heat exchanger.
Took about an hour to build this stove. This was a great wood stove.

My barrels did not begin to burn through after 3 years. As Sotz carefully explained in the instructions, you were to burn the stove with the door closed. Their simple but effective air control device would not allow enough air in to cause the barrel to burn cherry red.
You had to put 3 inches of sand on the bottom of the bottom barrel, to protect the steel from the heat of the coals. Every spring, you had to take the stove apart, and take it outside and clean it all out, and spray that bottom barrel with oil, to prevent rusting.
If you left the sand and ashes in that stove, during the summer they would absorb moisture, and rust the barrel out.  Took about 30 min. to take the stove apart and oil it down.

No big deal to take this stove apart and take it outside, one barrel with the door and legs only weighed about 25 pounds.

Sotz had it all figured out and this was the great Smoke Dragon of all time, rated at 250K btu.

Your stove is the most complicated barrel stove I have ever heard of, it is like the engine to a Saturn 5 rocket, compared to the Sotz, so I have no suggestions on how to make it run well. I wish you would post some pics of your stove. You must be a good welder, and an engineer.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Here are some pics...the inner bbl has a 6"x6" deep vee cut into the top front for the smoke to go to the space between the  inner and outer, and then to the back of the outer and up the chimney...The cement-perlite mix is only about 3" across the bottom of the 55 gal to support and center the 30 gal drum. The rest of the space (up to about 4" of the top) is to be filled with sand to act as thermal mass....The info about cleaning out the drum and oiling it sounds like a smart thing to do, but i will only be able to do the inner barrel....unless i spray oil into the sand between the bbls...which could be done...i have fired it once, and with a 4' piece of pipe on it, it was clean exhaust, no smoke at all, after it was burning good....Doesn't mean much until it proves out after time, but the secondary burner holes looked clean, as if it had ignited and burned hot enough to keep off the carbon and soot? Anyway, i will take all the input, either positive or critical, as this is my first step into the building of a barrel stove, and it IS a learning experience....Thanks, rsbhunter


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Sorry for the double pics, did a preview, it didn't show the 1st pics, so i downloaded again...now i know....


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## Simonkenton (Mar 1, 2015)

Good God! Speaking of the Saturn 5, is your real name Werner von Braun? 
What an engineering and technical accomplishment that wood stove is.

I hope it works well for you, if it gets to be too much trouble, just go to Craigslist nationwide, and search for Sotz double drum kit, in a few months you will find one, somewhere, for about $75, new in box.  The Sotz company, sadly, went bye bye 20 years ago.

I hope your stove works well and I admire your work but, the Sotz is simpler, and one axiom of engineering is that "simpler is better than complicated."


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

I thought about just going to the store, buying a small P.E or other top brand stove, but as I have the time, and love a project, this is what ended up being. If it doesn't work out, the stove shop will have another customer! Honestly, this started out as a plain barrel stove....then I started thinking about the danger of a "regular" barrel stove, and did some research on effiecient bbl stoves...found the idea on " end of times" site. The secondary burn setup just kind of seemed like a challenge.....helped fill in some idle time....time will tell if it was all a waste.....rsbhunter


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## Simonkenton (Mar 1, 2015)

Well, I admire your work ethic and your ingenuity. I am the King of "do-it-yourself" and have built my log cabin from scratch, and also built the stone fireplace pictured at left, having no experience as a mason. I have a great cabin and the fireplace works great, and is a very good heater, for a fireplace.

I am not sure what you mean about the "danger" of a regular barrel stove, I had mine in a house in north Atlanta for 3 years and it seemed pretty safe to me, never had a problem with it.
I know Sotz owners who have had double drum stoves in houses for 22 years without a problem, and are, incredibly, still using the original drums. Burn with the door closed, clean out and oil it up in the spring time.  This Sotz guy really knew what he was doing
And not to mention, he invented the Sotz Monster Maul, the best wood splitting maul ever invented. I lost my Sotz stove but still have my Monster Maul, bought it in 1983.

Your stove looks great! Nice paint job and obviously, very meticulously built. I hope it works well for you. Please give us a performance report.








Monster Maul


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Thanks , as far as the danger part, it might be more of an operator error situation...being overfired, to close to combustables, etc.your fireplace looks awesome! Like you, the unknown is more of a challenge than fear. I built my 12x20 ft solar she'd on my property in Colo. at 10,000 ft by myself,as I work 4 days, it's 6-1/2 hours from here in new mexico....no one can get off work to help.poured 2000 lbs of cement piers in 2 wknds, and built the shed over the summer..now I have a place to sleep while working on the "big" cabin. Thanks for the nice words, good luck on all of your future projects........rsbhunter


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## Simonkenton (Mar 1, 2015)

Thank you sir. I am a 64 year old geezer but am not done yet. I am an over the road truck driver, tonight sleeping in Edinburgh Texas.
Will bail out in a month, and will build, from scratch, another 20 x 24 foot log cabin this summer.  This will be an addition to my house. Will take a 6 month leave of absence, and then, back into the Big Rig and earn more big bucks and travel the roads of America.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

I know what you're saying, I turn 60 this May, wish I had 20 years back.....but then, I didn't do it then.......just have to work smart instead of hard. The cabin will be 20x30 to meet the 600 square.ft min. Rsbhunter


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## begreen (Mar 1, 2015)

RSBHUNTER said:


> I thought about just going to the store, buying a small P.E or other top brand stove, but as I have the time, and love a project, this is what ended up being. If it doesn't work out, the stove shop will have another customer! Honestly, this started out as a plain barrel stove....then I started thinking about the danger of a "regular" barrel stove, and did some research on effiecient bbl stoves...found the idea on " end of times" site. The secondary burn setup just kind of seemed like a challenge.....helped fill in some idle time....time will tell if it was all a waste.....rsbhunter


The main thing to keep in mind when installing this will be clearances. It will need to be 36" from any and all combustibles. The single-wall pipe needs to be 18" clear. Did you mean class A chimney instead of class 3?


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## Simonkenton (Mar 1, 2015)

That's right, gotta work smart and not hard. I have hired a 31 year old assistant to do all the heavy lifting. I told him, "I need a guy with a strong back and a weak mind" and he said "I am your boy!"  I think we will get along.  $18 an hour for my helper.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 1, 2015)

Yes, class A, and I'll keep the min distances for safety. I also plan on having heat shields and an insulated base. It is built as an airtight unit( as much as possible, I have sealed the door unit to the barrel top with fiberglass rope, sealed the lid / barrel joint with the same....it almost doesn't get enough air from the air inlets. I plan on an outside air feed. Any and all suggestions are welcome......rsbhunter


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## begreen (Mar 1, 2015)

How tall will the flue system be? With 5 - 90 deg. turns in the secondary air system it is going to take a bit of strong draft to pull air through there. It would be nice to have a way to observe the burn to verify if secondary burn is occurring.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 2, 2015)

Above the exit on the stove, will be 16 foot of chimney, being 2 ft above the highest point of the roof. Not that it is a cure all, the intake tubes are 1-1/2" and the burn tubes are 1" stainless...the space above the plate on top of the airlines will be insulated with ceramic blanket to keep the temps high at the tubes....reason for so much intake air pipe is t o hopefully preheat the o2 for secondary burn....rsbhunter


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## begreen (Mar 2, 2015)

That sounds good. It'll be interesting to see how it works out. I would add a sight-glass or small window to better observe the burn.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 2, 2015)

I'll have to research a way to put one into the door of the Vogellzang kit I used....I'm sure it can be done, just have to find out how to attach and seal it...I'd like to have a small window/sightglass.....rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Mar 4, 2015)

I stumbled across this.  It looks interesting. Looks like he has got some secondary burn tubes in there.  I would use a flat rope gasket for the window.


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1788.html


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## bholler (Mar 4, 2015)

Simonkenton said:


> I am not sure what you mean about the "danger" of a regular barrel stove, I had mine in a house in north Atlanta for 3 years and it seemed pretty safe to me, never had a problem with it.
> I know Sotz owners who have had double drum stoves in houses for 22 years without a problem, and are, incredibly, still using the original drums. Burn with the door closed, clean out and oil it up in the spring time.


they can be quite dangerous due to the relativly thin metal of the drum and the huge potential for heat production that that huge fire box has.  If you watch them closely and have proper clearances it can be ok but there is definitely a high danger potential there.  But to the op that is a great looking build i just hope the drums hold up well it would be ashame if all that work was wasted because the drum burnt out in a year or 2


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 4, 2015)

3650, Thanks for the pic, looks real close to mine! And you're right, I ordered the glass and a flat gasket for it. I also ordered some stainless z clips that I'll either bolt or weld on to hold the glass, but still let everything "move" ( or should I make a back side ......Again, thanks for the pic...bholler, yeah, the whole idea behind the double barrel with sand in between is to minimize as much as possible the heat danger.....just need to pay attention and not try to overview it....with the insulation inside, I shouldn't have to.......rsbhunter

And I'm still open to critique and idea's.......Thanks to everyone


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## bholler (Mar 4, 2015)

RSBHUNTER said:


> And I'm still open to critique and idea's.......Thanks to everyone


The work looks great i am impressed i just hope the drums hold up to make all that work worth it


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 4, 2015)

I plan on putting a layer of refractory cement on the bottom third of the barrel and possibly sand on top of that IF needed....if I don't get at least a couple of years out of this one, my next inner bbl will be stainless.....it's really not that hard to replace if I had to.....but I would prefer not to...rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Mar 5, 2015)

I just saw your pics. They weren't showing up last time I looked for some reason. I have to point out that your v is supposed to be in the back of your inner barrel. You want to burn from the front to back. Thats how barrels stoves are designed. The air intake comes in the bottom and the draft draws it from the front burning to the back then up through the outer barrel which should have the collar on the front. With the v in the front of the inner barrel its just going to draft straight up into the outer and out. It may also be difficult to get a good burn going with out a draft across the fire. You did really good work. I just think the implementation is a bit backwards. If it doesn't work well you might try reversing it.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 5, 2015)

I did it according to the instructions on "end of times " site. The theory is thjat it will burn front to back, the smoke then travels up to the V and between the two bbls to the back of the outer, then out. Thus , as much heat as possible is extracted....I'm not a thermal scientist, so I can't prove or disprove that, but on a test burn I did out side, with a 8 ft stack, when I dumped the ashes, all I had was fly ash....no pieces of partially burnt or burnt wood at all.....You might be right, but as I stated, I followed the instructions here     http://www.endtimesreport.com/thermal_mass_wood.html     As I say. I love feedback, as that's how things are made better....rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Mar 5, 2015)

ok, looking forward to some pics of the secondary burn. I'm building a double barrel also. Just the traditional way though. I was thinking of burn tubes in it also.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 5, 2015)

I might have done the double version but, the shed is lean to style (to hold 12 solar panels) 16' high in the rear and 10' in the front, so I put a loft in at 8' height ...Don't know about the heat clearance, so I went the single configuration...rsb


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 6, 2015)

Got to work on the window opening today, between an angle grinder and a sawsall i got the window opening done...here are some pics...Cerama glass should be here Monday....Also insulated the space between the burn tubes.


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## 3650 (Mar 6, 2015)

Nice. That door would look good on any stove.


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## GENECOP (Mar 7, 2015)

Nice work, please give us updates....


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## HotCoals (Mar 7, 2015)

Cool beans!

Years ago on the farm we had a double barrel stove ..top+ bottom deal.
We ran it hard to heat a big shop and it would do it!
We never even cleaned the thing come spring and it was over 10 years old when I left there. Same barrels!
There was not even sand in the bottom of it!


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 9, 2015)

Got the door glass in, and fitted to the door...some pics.....


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## Simonkenton (Mar 9, 2015)

RSB you are a craftsman.  Good job!


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## 3650 (Mar 9, 2015)

now just grind off the letters "REL" and you've got yourself a BAR STOVE.


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 9, 2015)

Simonkenton,Thank you.......actually, this wasn't' a plan (the window) til some one here said they couldn't wait to see pics of the secondary burn....so I had to come up with a way to film it....it was a fun project....after a test fire, it will be time to take it to the cabin, build a fire pad (hearth) and fill it with sand for mass.....it has really been a learning experience, from welding stainless to cast iron....and my second time ever to weld.....a lot of good experience...rsbhunter


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 9, 2015)

3650, That might happen!  Or just paint those letters...rsbhunter


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## begreen (Mar 10, 2015)

RSBHUNTER said:


> Simonkenton,Thank you.......actually, this wasn't' a plan (the window) til some one here said they couldn't wait to see pics of the secondary burn....so I had to come up with a way to film it....it was a fun project....after a test fire, it will be time to take it to the cabin, build a fire pad (hearth) and fill it with sand for mass.....it has really been a learning experience, from welding stainless to cast iron....and my second time ever to weld.....a lot of good experience...rsbhunter


Stay safe with the cabin install. It will need to be 36" from any combustible surface. A proper, ventilated wall shield can reduce that down to 12".


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## Simonkenton (Mar 10, 2015)

Yeah, a free-standing hammered copper heat shield is what you want!


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 10, 2015)

I have a tendency to go over board on safety, so I am planning on using every feature I can to keep if safe. Cement board with a heat shield between the stove and wall, still have the clearance....can't be too safe...


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## begreen (Mar 10, 2015)

Sounds good. Here's some info on proper wall shields. 
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear


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## 3650 (Mar 10, 2015)

I'm planning on enclosing mine in a 3 sided box with roof made with steel studs and tin roofing. Mines goin in the basement.


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## 3650 (Mar 14, 2015)

making any progress?


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 14, 2015)

I did a test fire yesterday, as soon as I got it started, the glass was soot-smoke covered.I could see flames from the secondary tube area, but it wasn't clear enough to take a pic.  However, again I had no smoke coming out of the 8' stack I had on it, and the air intakes were only open a half way. There were not alot of flames ,which makes me believe that I did have secondary burn. I made a.cover that is on the inside of the barrel lid to direct the intake air up over the glass. Maybe it will act like an air wash and keep the window clear. Will let you know on the next test burn...rsbhunter


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 14, 2015)

One other thing I noticed, after burning for 5 hours, the back wall o the barrel (bottom) was barely warm to the touch....the 4"  of vermiculite and cement is an awesome insulator....Will really be alot safer as to getting the surrounding are to hot..but will still keep safe distances....rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Mar 14, 2015)

Glad youre having success.


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## GENECOP (Mar 15, 2015)

Sounds good, let's see some photos of the burn....


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm hopeful, if I was to do I t again, I would run 2" up to the manifold, or  build an oblong box for the secondary....but as I hadn't welded slot up to that point, I we t with what I could figure out.....Will keep you posted...rsbhunter


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## RSBHUNTER (Mar 15, 2015)

If I can keep the glass clean with the new air baffle I made, I'll do the pics, if it still craps up, I'll just have to have faith it works, and use it as is. It still heats great, has the cooking plate add on, it will do what I need it to. If this was for the cabin, I might worry, but it's only for the solar shed for me to stay in while I build the cabin....rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Apr 16, 2015)

Any news?


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## kennyp2339 (Apr 16, 2015)

3650 said:


> View attachment 155186
> 
> 
> I stumbled across this.  It looks interesting. Looks like he has got some secondary burn tubes in there.  I would use a flat rope gasket for the window.
> ...



Man that thing sure looks like it cranks out the heat, look at the elbow and the heat discoloration


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## RSBHUNTER (Apr 16, 2015)

Nothing yet, turkey season got in the way...in about a month I should have it set up..rsbhunter


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## 3650 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hows the progress?. I've been thinking about the clips you welded on to the cast door. Cast doesnt weld very well. It might be better to bolt those on. Dont want to see that glass slide down and burn up your shed. I was looking at my pellet stove and the clips are bolted on.


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## RSBHUNTER (Jul 20, 2015)

3650 said:


> Hows the progress?. I've been thinking about the clips you welded on to the cast door. Cast doesnt weld very well. It might be better to bolt those on. Dont want to see that glass slide down and burn up your shed. I was looking at my pellet stove and the clips are bolted on.




I haven't made it up to the cabin to set it up, had shoulder surgery (torn big head tendon, rotator cuff) and I'm in the middle of putting injector cups in my 02 F 250 7.3 diesel....HOPING it will stop raining in S. Colorado so I can do some trim work and set the stove.....Now I need to come up with the $800 or so for the outside pipe....(15')...Will update as soon as I get up there...rsbhunter


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## RSBHUNTER (Jul 20, 2015)

As to the clips, I did use stainless wire on the welder, have really tugged on them, they "seem" secure...am considering running a bead of high temp silicone around the outside of the glass/gasket to help with that situation....


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## 3650 (Jul 20, 2015)

Pouring here as well. Sometimes you can come.across some good deals on double and triple wall stove pipe on Craigslist.


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