# Makin' kin'lin



## LLigetfa (Nov 24, 2012)

Damn... I forgot all about kin'lin and now my stash is getting low.  A few years ago I got smart and split early enough to not freeze my fingers and made enough to last for years.  Hopefully we'll get some mild weather in a week so I need to stop procrastinating.

I've always just used my 2 1/2 lb axe but I want to try changing it up.  Can't decide whether or not to get a small hatchet and if so what to look for.  I've never tried using a hatchet before and my hatchets have grown legs ans walked away.

My aim is not what it used to be so I find myself holding the wood up with the axe edge up to the wood and then dropping the works onto my chopping block.  Of course I need to get my hand out of harm's way quickly.  The weight and inertia of the axe head does the work.  A smaller lighter hatchet would lack the inertia.  Any suggestions on how heavy the head should be?

What I'd really like to try is a shingle froe.  This one from Lee Valley is a tad big.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/garden/page.aspx?cat=2,44728,45794&p=67231

This little one on ebay is about the right size but the shipping from the UK would be steep.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hand-forged-...e_RL&hash=item3ccc95e0f9&_uhb=1#ht_2017wt_906

I suppose I could cut the Lee Valley one down to size a little at a time until it is just right, Goldilocks style.

Anyone using a froe?


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## Gasifier (Nov 24, 2012)

I have never used a Froe. I use a Collins 2-1/2 axe. Have you ever thought about something like this?



http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...kw={keyword}&gclid=CJ7RsdP96LMCFYqZ4AodVnYARQ

Might be easier on the arm and elbow over a long period of time, rather than swinging an axe if you make a lot of kindling each year. I have never tried, so I am just wondering out loud I guess. A guy I know says you can place the cutting edge of the wedge at any thickness you want and make your kindling whatever size you need.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 24, 2012)

Ja, it has crossed my mind but most slide hammer splitters are too long for using on top of a chopping block.

I did find this shorty on a google search.





Also thought about trying this Smart Splitter.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15720


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## OhioBurner© (Nov 24, 2012)

I've used my Fiskars X27, also my Fiskars X7 hatchet, and also a big bowie knife - a K-Bar Becker BK-9. They all work equally well. Probably my K-Bar I would slightly prefer, as I feel I can make kindling safer. Once I have a piece split as wide as I want the kindling 1-2" I just lay the knife across the top of the piece and tap the knife with another piece of wood - towards the end of the kinfe - to drive it down. It doesnt really use the weight of the knife at all, just the tapping action, and you dont hold the pice or have your hand under the blade that you have to pull out quickly, so in my mind its safer. However that knife was more expensive than the fiskars.


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## midwestcoast (Nov 25, 2012)

I've used an axe to make plenty-o-kinlin' just as you describe and then tried a hatchet & hated it. Too short & too light.
Then I started used a large hatchet/small axe that was my grandfathers. Loved it. Used it for years on kindling, knocking off branch stubs... It was about 18" or more long & head about 1 1/2 or 1 3/4lbs. It broke recently & I'll be replacing with one similar.
Re: the Smart Splitter, wouldn't you still have to hold the wood when making kindling? otherwise you're picking it off the ground after every stroke. Don't see what it gains you.
I could see a froe being useful with the right wood. Make a bunch of shingles & then sliver them up with a hatchet.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

I found out the head weight of the Fiskars X11 is 1.85 lbs.  I wonder how well balanced it would be with the 17 inch handle when choking it up at the head?  The total weight is 2.43 lbs so that makes the handle lighter than the head.  I suppose I could stuff something in the hollow handle.

I checked and supposedly it is in stock locally so I might go check one out tomorrow.


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## glennm (Nov 25, 2012)

Electric splitter in the garage for me. I make kindling every day in minutes. One of my best wood tools!


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## rottiman (Nov 25, 2012)

X7 Fiskars works like a charm.


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## DianeB (Nov 25, 2012)

Estwing Fireside Friend.....American made, fabulous tool. I use it all the time to make kindling. My husband does as well, but it is my job to do the kindling - great work out for me every Saturday morning. Weight is 4 1lbs I think. You can also source this at home Depot, it is in the hand tool section, not where the larger mauls displayed. I picked up mine at HD - around $34. 


http://www.amazon.com/Estwing-Fires...49659&sr=1-1&keywords=estwing+fireside+friend


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

rottiman said:


> X7 Fiskars works like a charm.


I fear it'd be too light for my liking.
Head weight: 581 g (1.28 lbs) , Total weight: 748 g (1.65 lbs)


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

DianeB said:


> Estwing Fireside Friend...


That has some serious weight but the handle up by the head doesn't lend itself to my style. I choke up on the handle, holding it right near the head kinda like this pic of the Gränsfors.


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## FrankMA (Nov 25, 2012)

My Fiskars X25 does a good job. I grab a smaller split, start the X25 and then let both fall onto my large splitting round. Sometimes I'll take 2 - 4 splits and bungee cord them together and then whack them several times with the X25 until I have a bunch of kindling. I like your froe idea as it seems to save a step and allows you to size the kindling at the same time.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

FrankMA said:


> I like your froe idea as it seems to save a step and allows you to size the kindling at the same time.


Here is a video of using a froe with the bungee method. Whack off a bunch of slabs and turn it 90 degrees and repeat.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

One tool I've yet to try is my Sandvik Swedish brush axe.  




Last time I made kin'lin I wasn't wearing gloves and had a mishap where my axe went through the wood before I could get my hand out of the way.  When setting the blade, it is a fine line between getting it in far enough to hold but not so far and fast as to go through.

With my Sandvik having such a narrow blade, it might hold with less effort and if it were to go further than expected, the wider flat hoop portion should stop it.  A sideways twist should open up the split enough for the hoop to fit through.

A safer way would be to keep my hand away from the path altogether and to set the blade where I want it and then strike the poll of the axe or the hoop of the Sandvik with a wood or rubber mallet.  I've always considered striking the poll with a steel mallet to be a crime of abuse as it tends to deform the eye and mushroom the poll.  With the Fiskars not having an eye and the head purported to be hardened steel, perhaps it would just be a minor misdemeanor.


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## DianeB (Nov 25, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> That has some serious weight but the handle up by the head doesn't lend itself to my style. I choke up on the handle, holding it right near the head kinda like this pic of the Gränsfors.


 I would be afraid of hand injuries this way.  I wear gloves and some pieces do fly and hit my hand as the handle is short.  I don't swing over a shoulder - just come straight down, starting with my upper arms close to my ears and I stand square in front of the chopping block - neighbors get a kick out of the stance, but it gets the job done.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

DianeB said:


> I would be afraid of hand injuries this way...


Once I get a straight grained piece of wood down to about 4"X4", I don't swing my axe anymore.  That is when I choke up on the head, splitting the 4X4 into four 2X2 pieces and then each 2X2 into four 1X1 pieces.

I had a good look at the X11 and really liked it.  Was all set to buy it but made the big mistake of bringing the wife along.  SWMBO choked on the price and said I have to wait for it to go on sale.  I grabbed a smaller 1-1/4 lb hatchet with a 14" fiberglass handle for now but I think it will end up being "her" hatchet.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 25, 2012)

Between this and Super Cedars, I have misplaced my kindling axe. http://www.amazon.com/Pow-Kraft-65556-Electric-Splitter/dp/B002JFCSUO


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## firefighterjake (Nov 25, 2012)

Cheap hatchet + softwood slabs/left over pine boards + time in the wood shed = all the kindling I could ever need or use.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 25, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Cheap hatchet...


I like the sound of cheap but I also appreciate quality.  Often those two are mutually exclusive.

I found this article on making your own froe from a chunk of leaf spring.  It is not as thick at the top as a real froe but then I am looking for a sort of mini-froe.
http://traditionalskills.wordpress.com/tag/leaf-spring/
I may go visit some auto repair shops to see what I can find.


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## osagebow (Nov 25, 2012)

Recently put a bunch of really dry soft maple in a car tire and went to town with a medium axe. 
Fun and productive!


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## firefighterjake (Nov 26, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> I like the sound of cheap but I also appreciate quality. Often those two are mutually exclusive.
> 
> I found this article on making your own froe from a chunk of leaf spring. It is not as thick at the top as a real froe but then I am looking for a sort of mini-froe.
> http://traditionalskills.wordpress.com/tag/leaf-spring/
> I may go visit some auto repair shops to see what I can find.


 
Nothing wrong with quality tools . . . but for what I need my cheap hatchet to do . . . just chop up some kindling on occasion -- not bust up several cords of wood or chop down multiple trees or hack into a horde of zombies -- the cheap hatchet has done the job admirably . . . and I've had it now for years.


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## DianeB (Nov 26, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Between this and Super Cedars, I have misplaced my kindling axe. http://www.amazon.com/Pow-Kraft-65556-Electric-Splitter/dp/B002JFCSUO


 I saw this on amazon - very good reivews and price


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## LLigetfa (Nov 26, 2012)

Ja, but it won't go vertical.  BWS can make all his kin'lin with his splitter vertical.  I went looking for his how-to but found this instead.


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## Highbeam (Nov 26, 2012)

Regular axe like everyone should have. Just hold onto the handle way up by the bit and use it like a really heavy hatchet to split kindling. As my wood quality has gone up, my kindling size also has gone up. I only use four pieces now instead of 9 and then straight to full sized splits. No super cedars either, they work great but I'm just too cheap.


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## DTrain (Nov 26, 2012)

Just made a whack of kindling yesterday.  Peavey mfg. Froe.  As easy as it gets.   A nice tool to add to the collection anyway.  I also think it takes less effort to use, less force than an axe or hatchet.  Less chance of whacking yourself .


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## LLigetfa (Nov 26, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Regular axe like everyone should have. Just hold onto the handle way up by the bit and use it like a really heavy hatchet to split kindling. As my wood quality has gone up, my kindling size also has gone up. I only use four pieces now instead of 9 and then straight to full sized splits. No super cedars either, they work great but I'm just too cheap.


You pretty much describe what I do except that I do use a 1/4 of a Super Cedar.  The frugal side of me ordered them in the 100ct volume for the lowest price and I pestered Thomas for a further discount.  400 easy fire starts is good value for the money IMHO.  If it were easy to use a full one and forgo kin'lin altogether, I'd be in there like a dirty shirt.

A regular axe generally has a fairly blunt angle to it and as such better suited to being swung.  Specialty carving axes and hatchets tend to have a thinner edge of the wedge and are easier to "set" and control.

My problem is worsening with age.  There was a time I could hit the same spot dead on with my swing.  Now I'm lucky to hit the round.  Someone watching me made the comment "Wow, you're like lightning".  "That fast and powerful eh?" I asked with pride.  "No" he said, "never hits the same place twice".


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## FrankMA (Nov 26, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> My problem is worsening with age. There was a time I could hit the same spot dead on with my swing. Now I'm lucky to hit the round. Someone watching me made the comment "Wow, you're like lightning". "That fast and powerful eh?" I asked with pride. "No" he said, "never hits the same place twice".


 
That's so funny but unfortunately true....


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## Scols (Nov 26, 2012)

I use a small wedge and a lump hammer. It safe and works pretty well.


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## DTrain (Nov 26, 2012)

Also a nice part about the Froe.  Set it where you want and giver a tap and a pry it it pops apart.  You only swing a mallet or small round like I do and you other hand is no wherer near the blade.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 26, 2012)

DTrain said:


> Just made a whack of kindling yesterday. Peavey mfg. Froe. As easy as it gets. A nice tool to add to the collection anyway. I also think it takes less effort to use, less force than an axe or hatchet. Less chance of whacking yourself .


I guess I missed that one due to their choice of spelling (froe/frow/fro).  That thing looks huge.  Maybe even bigger than the Lee Valley one I found.  I suppose one could take a grinder to it and shorten it some.


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## DTrain (Nov 26, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> I guess I missed that one due to their choice of spelling (froe/frow/fro).  That thing looks huge.  Maybe even bigger than the Lee Valley one I found.  I suppose one could take a grinder to it and shorten it some.



15".  It's what you want if you have something a little tough.  Once you bury the blade in the top of the round you may need to whack it again.  So you need some hanging out either side to smack.  6" round with 4.5" of land to hit on either side


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## LLigetfa (Nov 26, 2012)

Scols said:


> I use a small wedge and a lump hammer. It safe and works pretty well.


I use a lump hammer with my stone chisel and forever keep whacking my hand despite the guard.  I don't want my hand to be in the line of fire.





Did I mention my aim has gotten real bad?  It's the primary reason I use my hydraulic log splitter to split everything.  I mentioned to the wife that I think I may be showing early signs on MS but she dismissed me.


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## MasterMech (Nov 27, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> I use a lump hammer with my stone chisel and forever keep whacking my hand despite the guard. I don't want my hand to be in the line of fire.
> 
> Did I mention my aim has gotten real bad? It's the primary reason I use my hydraulic log splitter to split everything. I mentioned to the wife that I think I may be showing early signs on MS but she dismissed me.


 
Why not use it to do the kin'lin too?  I've done that in the past, very fast & easy as it gets.

FWIW Lig, Most of my fires start off with a 1/4 of a super cedar, no kin'lin.  It's a sure bet if you place the chunk of SC near the ends of the splits.


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## Wildo (Nov 27, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Why not use it to do the kin'lin too?  I've done that in the past, very fast & easy as it gets.
> 
> FWIW Lig, Most of my fires start off with a 1/4 of a super cedar, no kin'lin. It's a sure bet if you place the chunk of SC near the ends of the splits.


 

I'm not bragging.   I split all of my est.wh. cedar by hand and it is cheaper and faster than a splitter overall by about three to four times being conservative and I have a ridiculously fast splitter.  Mind you that I only get knotty stuff when relatives show up saying that they found these blocks bucked up out in tha woods, and I tell them that I left those behind  for that reason.


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## bboulier (Dec 27, 2012)

Got the X7 for Christmas.  It is a nice hatchet, although I expected something a little heavier. I think a few more ounces would be beneficial.  The X7 is very sharp like the X25 and X27 and cuts well.  Does a good job at producing kindling, although an X25 choked up also does a fine job.  The X7 is an upgrade from the hatchet I ordinarily use, but it is not  a "fantastic" tool like the X25 or X27.  If don't have a hatchet and are deciding to buy one, I recommend it.  If you are choosing to upgrade to your current hatchet, I also make a positive recommendation, but only if you are unhappy with your current tool.


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## fabsroman (Dec 28, 2012)

Yeah, I just use a cheap hatchet I bought from Home Depot and a 5 pound hammer. Hold the wood up with the hatchet and give the hatchet a wack. I might try the hydraulic splitter this summer, but it really is easy to make a week's worth of kindling with the hatchet and hammer.


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## WellSeasoned (Dec 28, 2012)

X7 works for what I need. I break down skids at work all year , bring them home. If I need the pieces smaller the x7 does well. I use a round on the deck, and split away. I keep my hands away by starting the hatchet in the wood, lift with the wood stuck on the hatchet, and swing toward the round and it splits nice. I cut halfway into my thumb nail, and all, and that's the last time I'll ever keep my hand near.


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## bogydave (Dec 28, 2012)

Inverted atv tire on a stump , maul/axe,hatchet.


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## WellSeasoned (Dec 28, 2012)

bogydave said:


> Inverted atv tire on a stump , maul/axe,hatchet.
> View attachment 86801



And then just pound away like crazy?


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## ScotO (Dec 28, 2012)

I have kindling all through my woodpile.  When we do a tree job, I save almost everything over 2" diameter.  I put that stuff randomly (sometimes in bundles) throughout the stacks.  That way, there's always a horde of good kindling in the stacks.  I use that smaller stuff on start-ups and re-lights......


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## CT-Mike (Dec 28, 2012)

I just collect up all the scrap that hits the ground when using the TimberWolf.


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## bogydave (Dec 28, 2012)

WellSeasoned said:


> And then just pound away like crazy?


 
 Kinda
Just be carful to not hit the handle


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## LLigetfa (Dec 30, 2012)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I just use a cheap hatchet I bought from Home Depot and a 5 pound hammer. Hold the wood up with the hatchet and give the hatchet a wack.


I tried that with my cheap hatchet and the lump hammer left quite an imprint in the poll of the hatchet.  Obviously not heat treated so I switched to beating on the poll with my large rubber mallet.

I think the Fiskars would stand up to that sort of abuse.


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## mtarbert (Dec 30, 2012)

A few years ago I purchased an old (big) meat cleaver at a yardsale and it works great for kindling


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## mtnhome (Dec 30, 2012)

Just ran across this:
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Kindling-Froe-by-Mora-of-Sweden/productinfo/109-1980/


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## DTrain (Dec 30, 2012)

mtnhome said:


> Just ran across this:
> http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Kindling-Froe-by-Mora-of-Sweden/productinfo/109-1980/



Neat.  Seems like you'd need to be making kindling from stuff that's pretty small already, and have straight grain.  I think that be great when I break up 2x4 leftovers.  I find the Froe with the 90 handle gives plenty of leverage to pry or pop that peice off.  But I'd certainly add that to the arsenal.


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## fabsroman (Dec 30, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> I tried that with my cheap hatchet and the lump hammer left quite an imprint in the poll of the hatchet. Obviously not heat treated so I switched to beating on the poll with my large rubber mallet.
> 
> I think the Fiskars would stand up to that sort of abuse.


 
Yeah, I wouldn't really want to beat a Fiskars like this, and I think the hatchet is made to mushroom on the back end when struck. The hammer is not getting a single mark on it. If the hatchet lasts me 10 years with the beating, it will have paid for itself and I will break out another $10. Just split over a month's worth of kindling the other day via this method.


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## LLigetfa (Dec 30, 2012)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't really want to beat a Fiskars like this...


Why not?  I think it would not deform like a cheap hatchet will.


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## fabsroman (Dec 30, 2012)

LLigetfa said:


> Why not? I think it would not deform like a cheap hatchet will.


 
Because I do not know the answer to that matter and I would rather use the Fiskars for cutting crap while splitting stuff on the hydraulic splitter versus making kindling. Might just make kindling with the splitter instead of whacking it with hand tools. We shall see.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 3, 2013)

I like my little Estwing hatchet .
1 1/2 lb. 14" handle.  A glove on the left hand
and chip away!


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## osagebow (Jan 4, 2013)

Paulywalnut said:


> I like my little Estwing hatchet .
> 1 1/2 lb. 14" handle. A glove on the left hand
> and chip away!


 

Lot of people love those, gotta get one.

Great handle,PW - favorite Paulie Walnuts line : (Shortly after he was told about a guy from the Russian interior ministry that had killed 16 Chechen rebels)

" You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator."


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## Kenster (Jan 8, 2013)

Here's a link to a thread I posted a little over two years ago, with pics, showing how I make kindling out of cedar fence posts. 
In the original post I mention something about making my own 'fatwood.'  Technically, it's not fatwood but works just as well in my experience and it's very cheap.  I get at least two years worth of kindling sticks out of one fence post.  It's a lot cleaner than scraping up chips off the ground. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/making-my-own-fat-wood.60147/#post-60147


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## fabsroman (Jan 8, 2013)

LLigetfa said:


> I tried that with my cheap hatchet and the lump hammer left quite an imprint in the poll of the hatchet. Obviously not heat treated so I switched to beating on the poll with my large rubber mallet.
> 
> I think the Fiskars would stand up to that sort of abuse.


 
I got the X27 and X7, and on the guards for both tools, there is a symbol showing not to strike it with a hammer. So, I am guessing that using the 4 lb hammer on the new X7 might not be a good idea. Maybe the softer metal of the cheap hatchet is designed to mushroom like it is doing. Sort of like some really old masonry chisels that I have seen.


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## Kenster (Jan 8, 2013)

The X7, or any other ax  is not intended to be used as a wedge.  If you want a wedge, get one and pound it with small sledge.  Spare the X7.


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## Boog (Jan 9, 2013)

I never "make kin'lin" by splitting big things up, I just cut all the branch tips down to about an inch or so and stack it all right in with the bigger stuff in my piles. My stacks are full of tiny little "rounds" all through them. Whatever is left after that goes into wildlife brush piles.


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