# Echo cs 590 vs Stihl ms 291 or Stihl ms 311



## efoyt

It's time to replace my old chain saw ( Stihl farm boss).  I was looking at stihls when the guy that runs my local chainsaw shop suggested an echo.  The ms 271 is about the level of saw I used to have.  The ms 271 price is 459.00.  The next size up is the ms 311 at 509.00.  The echo cs 590 price 399.00 is comparable to the ms 271.  But the saw is comparable to the ms 311.  Ms 271 is 50 cc....both the ms 311 and the echo cs 590 are 60 cc chainsaws.  So should I stick with Stihl ( prob the ms 271 ).  Or should I get the echo?


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## aansorge

A little research on here...http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-cs-590-timberwolf-vs-echo-cs-600p.233800/page-5   makes it sound as though the ECHO would be a great choice. It needs a little carb adjustment and then it'll be a beast.


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## Highbeam

Farm boss is traditionally the 291, not the 271. I own the ms290 and it's great. I am really appreciating a long bar these days not so much fof the large logs but because you dont have to bend over to cut the round and get a sore back. 

Any new saw i get will be capable of running a 24" bar.


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## Ashful

I've owned a few Echo's, and while they're old enough to probably have almost nothing to do with modern Echo's, they've been some of the most reliable saws I have ever owned.  If you talk to landscape pro's, most will tell you that Stihl and Husqvarna typically beat Echo on power/weight ratio, but that Echo's are dead reliable and sturdy.  It's hard to say anything bad about Echo, excepting maybe some of the crap they sell under that brand name in Lowes Depot.


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## Camben

I was in the same situation a few months back.  It was between the 291 and the echo 590.  I went with the 291 just because I thought it would be more durable.  It's been good so far, but sometimes I think that maybe I should have got the echo.  I have a cs300 and it's been very good also.  You'll be happy either one.  After all..... your getting a new saw!


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## tsquini

I have an Echo 590. I don't have any complaints.


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## Bigg_Redd

After sorting the carb my dad's 360T is a beast


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## Clarkbug

The Echo 590 is the same as the 600 with the exception of some cost cutting items to help it compete with the Stihl saws.  Spur sprocket, plastic handle, plastic clutch cover, and maybe a stamped bucking spike?  Also a slightly cheaper Oregon bar/chain.  But you can always swap most of those bits out easily when they need replacement with rim sprockets, different bars, etc.


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## johndams

Clarkbug said:


> The Echo 590 is the same as the 600 with the exception of some cost cutting items to help it compete with the Stihl saws.  Spur sprocket, plastic handle, plastic clutch cover, and maybe a stamped bucking spike?  Also a slightly cheaper Oregon bar/chain.  But you can always swap most of those bits out easily when they need replacement with rim sprockets, different bars, etc.





Clarkbug said:


> The Echo 590 is the same as the 600 with the exception of some cost cutting items to help it compete with the Stihl saws.  Spur sprocket, plastic handle, plastic clutch cover, and maybe a stamped bucking spike?  Also a slightly cheaper Oregon bar/chain.  But you can always swap most of those bits out easily when they need replacement with rim sprockets, different bars, etc.


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## johndams

i have many saws, THE 590 ECHO IS THE BEST DEAL ON EARTH, CUTS FAST RUNS GREAT, STARTS EASY, IM A LOGGER TOO MANY SAWS TO LIST BUT I OWN 2 590 ECHO-1 680 ECHO-3 CS400 , I HAVE A 455 HUSKY THAT CUTS JUST AS GOOd AS THE 460 HUSKY AND 100 DOLLORS LESS, THE ECHO HAS 5 YEAR WARENTTY AND THEY STAND BEHIND THERE SAWS, i was cutting red oak got my 590  stuck in a limb pushed the branch with  my 650 dozer broke the saw almost in half, echo called me and pulled the parts off assembly line and paid for repair, i bought another one when i picked it up. my 680 echo will cut just as good as my new 2166 johnsred, for under 400 bucks the echo is the best buy out there bare none, echo all the way


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## computeruser

Of the saws you're listing, I'd go with the 590 before I went with the 271, 291, or 311.  Assuming you retune it correctly, the specs on paper certainly seem to sound like it is a solid value at a very tolerable price point.  18" bar for regular use, 24" with skip chain for jobs that require more bar.  

I have run the 271, and was not impressed.  It would be tolerable with a 16" bar, but not with more than that, and at least here people insist on outfitting those with 18-20" bars and expecting them to be happy with the bar fully buried in hardwood.  I think its performance was actually less exciting than that of a 290, which is disappointing.  The 455 and 460(H) that I've run were also uninspiring.


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## D8Chumley

I will be getting the 590 to replace my MS 360 as soon as I get a day off. I'm excited to get it and throw some chips with it soon!


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## Ashful

D8Chumley said:


> I will be getting the 590 to replace my MS 360 as soon as I get a day off. I'm excited to get it and throw some chips with it soon!


Echo 590 is a decent saw, but... replacing an MS 360?  What am I missing.  Is the 360 dead, or did you take a recent blow to the head?


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## D8Chumley

It died. Must've been set up too lean and puked the P&C again. My buddy that put it together for me gave me $150 without the bar and chain because he felt bad so I figured for another $250 I won't be putting into the 360 I'll have a brand new 60cc saw with 5 yr warranty. Just have to figure out 18" or 20" bar. Leaning 20" with a rim sprocket right off the bat. He is going to rebuild it for his older dad that has a problematic 059 I think he said.
    The saw shop I deal with is run by an honest Mennonite family and we buy all our stuff from them through work. The father is who I usually speak with and he is pretty high on the 590 for the money, almost half the price of a new 362


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## D8Chumley

I took it there when it quit on me and they quoted me over $400 to rebuild with OEM stuff. No thanks


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## Ashful

D8Chumley said:


> The saw shop I deal with is run by an honest Mennonite family and we buy all our stuff from them through work. The father is who I usually speak with and he is pretty high on the 590 for the money, almost half the price of a new 362


you must be talking about Penn Holo.  I've bought quite a few saws there.  Father and eight kids running the shop, if I recall.


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## D8Chumley

Haha yes that's the one. I didn't know there were 8 kids but I believe it. I drive past CDI to go there


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## tsquini

I have a 590. Nice saw, geat power and weight. I would recommend it. There are a few things. I wish it had a trigger lock. For some reason, I have only had this happen with this saw. The bar gets jammed with saw dust locking up the chain. I have adjusted the chain tension, but occonionally it happens I don't know why. The only way to get it I jammed is to remove the chain.


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## D8Chumley

I don't think that's a deal breaker for me. I might swing by there tomorrow and drop $400 American on the counter and leave with a smile


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## Ashful

tsquini:  My Echo 500EVL used to do the same thing.  I'd drag the chain reverse on a log to clear it a few times, before inevitably having to remove bar and chain to clean the groove.  I thought it was just that particular bar I owned, but maybe more an issue with the way Echo's oilers tie into the bar?


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## D8Chumley

That's a good question, and one from me- do you have an Echo bar, if so what size ? I'm probably going to the shop to get this before I go into work this afternoon. Doing 2nd shift for a few weeks


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## mecreature

Joful said:


> tsquini:  My Echo 500EVL used to do the same thing.  I'd drag the chain reverse on a log to clear it a few times, before inevitably having to remove bar and chain to clean the groove.  I thought it was just that particular bar I owned, but maybe more an issue with the way Echo's oilers tie into the bar?




I used to have to do this with my Poulan


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## D8Chumley

tsquini said:


> I have a 590. Nice saw, geat power and weight. I would recommend it. There are a few things. I wish it had a trigger lock. For some reason, I have only had this happen with this saw. The bar gets jammed with saw dust locking up the chain. I have adjusted the chain tension, but occonionally it happens I don't know why. The only way to get it I jammed is to remove the chain.


I just got home with the new saw and had to cut a few downed limbs before I came in and responded. I like it, initially. Got the 18" bar with 3 chains. 2 things I learned that might be of help- one, the trigger lock is integrated in the choke. He said pull it all the way out and it locks it WFO. For warm starts, pull it out then bump it in one notch and it is still locked. Secondly, he only ever had 2 saws with the dust/chips binding. He said it was the low kickback chain caused dust to bind at the tip, and when they put a pro chain (thats what he called it, I imagine full chisel? ) it didnt happen any more. Hope this helps, and I need to get some hours on this new one to get a good opinion


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## Ashful

Cool!  Yeah, I'd not go bigger than 18" on 60cc, unless you really needed the extra length.  It will cut much faster.

On my bar issue, yes it was an Echo bar, and the jamming was always occurring around the sprocket nose.  I wasn't so good about always greasing my sprocket noses back then, and I suspect a too-fragile seal was damaged by chip intrusion at some point.  I also ran safety chain (Oregon Vanguard 72V) back in those days.

Whatever bar you run, unless a Stihl ES, keep those sprockets greased daily!


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## tsquini

D8Chumley said:


> I just got home with the new saw and had to cut a few downed limbs before I came in and responded. I like it, initially. Got the 18" bar with 3 chains. 2 things I learned that might be of help- one, the trigger lock is integrated in the choke. He said pull it all the way out and it locks it WFO. For warm starts, pull it out then bump it in one notch and it is still locked. Secondly, he only ever had 2 saws with the dust/chips binding. He said it was the low kickback chain caused dust to bind at the tip, and when they put a pro chain (thats what he called it, I imagine full chisel? ) it didnt happen any more. Hope this helps, and I need to get some hours on this new one to get a good opinion


This is great info. Thanks. I guess I have to try the choke for the trigger lock. I would not have guessed that would be how it would work.


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## missedbass

I have had my 271 for a couple of years now and have done nothing but keeping the chain sharp and the bar clean and the saw has been great. You can get one now for under $400 with a 16" bar. For the cost of a 291 however, I would spend a little more and go for a 261cm


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## D8Chumley

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The 271 is a 50cc ranch saw, the 291 is ~ 55cc also a ranch saw, $410 and $470 respectively with 18" bars. The 261 is a Pro grade 50cc saw, with 18" bar its $730. Don't get me wrong, I've always been a Stihl guy but in my eyes an equivalent to the Echo 590 would be the MS 362 which sets me back $740 American. I work hard for my money, as I'm sure you do also so if I can get a Pro grade 59cc saw with 5 yr warranty for $399 instead of $740 I'll take it every time. Just my humble .02. Time will tell if I made a good choice


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## Ashful

Last I cheked, Echo 590 is a farm and ranch 60 cc saw so the 291 is a more appropriate comparison.  An MS 361 it is NOT!


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## D8Chumley

I stand corrected, I was thinking of the mag vs plastic case


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## Firewood Bandit

The Echo CS-590 is the best value around right now. 

Quite a few of my friends have Stihl 290's.  All will run, are extremely heavy, bulky and almost always have real dull chains.  People who know no better buy Stihl.

MS261's are very good, but then again, how much more money for a saw that is still less displacement?


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## Ashful

Firewood Bandit said:


> People who know no better buy Stihl.


Yeah, you're right.  The bull rider's association sponsoring Echo chainsaws surely knows better than the overwhelming majority of pro fellers and arborists who rely solely on Stihl saws for their livelihood.

I still struggle to understand why Echo thinks Professional Bull Riders are a valid sole endorsement for their chainsaws.  Maybe they just assume manly men know manly things, like chainsaws?

I'm not down on Echo saws, as I've owned a few, and they were reliable saws.  But I won't pretend they're on par with Stihl pro saws, either.


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## Bigg_Redd

Firewood Bandit said:


> Quite a few of my friends have Stihl 290's. All will run, are extremely heavy, bulky and almost always have real dull chains.



Heavy a bulky compared to what?  An Echo?  Rilly? 

Also, FWIW, the new 291 Farm Boss is a full pound lighter than the 290 which puts it on par with any similar displacement pro saw.

Also, not sure what a dull chain has to do with the MS290.  I'm pretty sure if those same friends had Echos they'd be dull too.


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## Firewood Bandit

Joful said:


> Yeah, you're right.  The bull rider's association sponsoring Echo chainsaws surely knows better than the overwhelming majority of pro fellers and arborists who rely solely on Stihl saws for their livelihood.
> 
> I still struggle to understand why Echo thinks Professional Bull Riders are a valid sole endorsement for their chainsaws.  Maybe they just assume manly men know manly things, like chainsaws?
> 
> I'm not down on Echo saws, as I've owned a few, and they were reliable saws.  But I won't pretend they're on par with Stihl pro saws, either.


 

Of course the Echo saws aren't comparable to the Pro line Stihls.  The comparison here is a $399 Echo compared with more expensive Stihls that aren't of any better build quality and are less displacement.  For the money, the CS-590 is a bargain and that was the point.


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## Firewood Bandit

Bigg_Redd said:


> Heavy a bulky compared to what?  An Echo?  Rilly?
> 
> Also, FWIW, the new 291 Farm Boss is a full pound lighter than the 290 which puts it on par with any similar displacement pro saw.
> 
> Also, not sure what a dull chain has to do with the MS290.  I'm pretty sure if those same friends had Echos they'd be dull too.


 

The "bulky/heavy" comment was comparing the MS290's to what I run.  Granted it is not a fair comparison, but so what.  Would you compare a ported 346XP to a MS290 favorably?

Anybody that runs dull chain will run dull chain on any saw they own.  I am probably a little more serious than most regarding keeping chains in good working order. 

Here is my set up.  The one on the left is for rakers, the middle for .325 and the right for 3/8ths and .404












Never know what you have to make or fix.


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## mecreature

If you look at the CS-590 Brochure....http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachment/90d6a91c-df0b-410c-b029-52b0a7e4b831/CS-590 Timber Wolf.pdf

It compares the 590 to the 290, 291 and the Husqvarna 455. It does have a few different features.I would like to run one to check it out.
I have a friend that runs a 500P. His chains are always dull and the gas is usually crappy and it just sits while I cut so I cannot compare to someone that takes care of their saw.

I assume this is the 590?


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## tsquini

I bought a 590 last year. So far I have cut about 10 cords with it. This is not a PRO saw, but it is a the best value for the market segment. I have used all three saws Stihl 290, Husqvarna 455 and Echo 590. The Echo is on par with the Stihl and blows the 455 out of the water.


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## Bigg_Redd

Firewood Bandit said:


> The "bulky/heavy" comment was comparing the MS290's to what I run. Granted it is not a fair comparison, but so what. Would you compare a ported 346XP to a MS290 favorably?



So we agree: the MS290 has no more bulk nor heft than any other non-pro saw from any other manufacturer

Right now I'd love a 346, but I already have a big boy saw.  If I didn't have a saw and it's my money on the table I take a 290 over a 346xp every day


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## johndams

dont listen to people that havent owned or ran a certain saw, i have a 039 super 029 super,[8-10 years old] anew 455 rancher xtra tourq a 460 husky thats over price dog the 455 will do anything the 460 will do, but the 590 echo is FAR NICER FASTER EASY TO START,CUTS FAST AND FOR 399.99 ITS THE BEST DEAL ON EARTH AND HAS 5 YEAR WARRENTY, IM PRO EXCAVATION COMPANY BUT DO A LOT OF LOGGING THIS TIME OF YEAR, do your self a favor buy the 590, stihl [was my favoret way back when] but the johnsred 2260 -same as husky 562 will out cut the 590, i ran the johnsred 2260 but by half a second, and it way 675, the husky on sale 679-689, stihl has fallen behind,i have an echo 680 24inch, 2-cs 400 [hardley use them] the little cs 400 will suprise you,and remember echo has 5 year warrenty life time on ignition,i paid 595 after dealing on the 680, the cs 400 are 299,so know you heard from somone who runs them daily not just guessing from what they think, and echo will talk to you direct from factory on phone,i have a lot of nice old husky  i bought in 1988, 272-61-268, but dont run them anymore,


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## D8Chumley

That is one heck of a run-on sentence sir, but I agree with what you say somewhat. I still like my Stihls but after about 1.5 hrs cutting with the 590 I am pleased so far. I am curious how much better she will run after a few tanks of fuel through her. Can you say about how many until she's giving 100%? I figure 5-10 tanks maybe? And welcome aboard!


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## Minnesota Marty

Firewood Bandit. 
That is quite the impressive chain sharpening setup.  I got the Northern Tool $100 model and it does the trick somewhat.  I am thinking of taking the Northern $100 model back for something from Oregon like the 511. Sharpen the dozen chains I have for the 3 saws and in 2 years I've got it paid for. 

I have am in the market to replace my Echo CS 300.  That saw has been my workhorse for a good 20  years. it has paid its dues.


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## Firewood Bandit

Minnesota Marty said:


> Firewood Bandit.
> That is quite the impressive chain sharpening setup.  I got the Northern Tool $100 model and it does the trick somewhat.  I am thinking of taking the Northern $100 model back for something from Oregon like the 511. Sharpen the dozen chains I have for the 3 saws and in 2 years I've got it paid for.
> 
> I have am in the market to replace my Echo CS 300.  That saw has been my workhorse for a good 20  years. it has paid its dues.




Thanks for the kind words.

The company that makes most grinders including Oregon is an Italian company called Tecomec.  The only difference between 511AX and the Norther Tool is the quality of the vise and they way they clamp the chain.  The inexpensive one has a cam that clamps in one place, the 511AX clamps several drivers. Both clamp from the bottom of the chain which allows the cutter to move slightly while securing.  The Silvey has a pawl that is very simple, it catches on the rear corner of the cutter and you pull backwards on the chain with your left hand and this action forces the cutter down into the rail and it does NOT MOVE.


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## Firewood Bandit

Bigg_Redd said:


> So we agree: the MS290 has no more bulk nor heft than any other non-pro saw from any other manufacturer
> 
> Right now I'd love a 346, but I already have a big boy saw.  If I didn't have a saw and it's my money on the table I take a 290 over a 346xp every day




Well I just checked Stihl's website.  I can't get a price on the MS290 due to being discontinued.  But the MS291 with the same sized bar is $40 less than I paid for a Husky 550XPG, (heated handles version).  Now for $40 less would you buy a clamshell when you could get a lighter saw with the same power and heated handles?

FWIW, the 346XP may be a better limbing saw than the 550XPG, with slightly less power in bucking.


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## Bigg_Redd

Firewood Bandit said:


> Well I just checked Stihl's website.  I can't get a price on the MS290 due to being discontinued.  But the MS291 with the same sized bar is $40 less than I paid for a Husky 550XPG, (heated handles version).  Now for $40 less would you buy a clamshell when you could get a lighter saw with the same power and heated handles?
> 
> FWIW, the 346XP may be a better limbing saw than the 550XPG, with slightly less power in bucking.



I know this is difficult for you Husqy guys, but, try to stay on point 

I made this exact decision about 12 years ago - a pro 50cc saw for $500, or a 56.6cc MS290 for $360?  This was not a difficult choice back then and wouldn't be today, either.  The fact that the 291 is $100 more than the the 290 was complicates the decision.  The MS290 was the most reliable tool I've ever owned.


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## Firewood Bandit

Bigg_Redd said:


> I know this is difficult for you Husqy guys, but, try to stay on point
> 
> I made this exact decision about 12 years ago - a pro 50cc saw for $500, or a 56.6cc MS290 for $360?  This was not a difficult choice back then and wouldn't be today, either.  The fact that the 291 is $100 more than the the 290 was complicates the decision.  The MS290 was the most reliable tool I've ever owned.




OK, trying to stay on point.

I don't see why you are talking about MS290's due to Stihl's website says they are no longer available.  Talking about what you bought 12 years ago is an exercise in futility.  FWIW, bought a Stihl 028 Super in 1991 and it was about $325 and that is equally irrelevant.

  According to the price quote this morning a 18" bar on a MS291 is $489.  I paid $529 for a 550XPG.

So a pro line, heated handle saw is $40 more than a clamshell.  Doesn't seem like much of a choice does it?

An Echo CS-590 is still the best value for the money.


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## SXIPro

Does a $50-$100 difference really going to influence anyone's decision an a saw? Heck, that's barely the price of a decent meal and a couple of pints.


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## Firewood Bandit

SXIPro said:


> Does a $50-$100 difference really going to influence anyone's decision an a saw? Heck, that's barely the price of a decent meal and a couple of pints.




I agree, you don't see me buying cheap saws, or overly expensive ones either, errr Stihls.


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## Clarkbug

SXIPro said:


> Does a $50-$100 difference really going to influence anyone's decision an a saw? Heck, that's barely the price of a decent meal and a couple of pints.



Sure it does.  That's why they sell them for all different cost points.


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## Bigg_Redd

Firewood Bandit said:


> I don't see why you are talking about MS290's due to Stihl's website says they are no longer available.



Good point.  I dunno if I brought that up or not.  



Firewood Bandit said:


> Talking about what you bought 12 years ago is an exercise in futility. FWIW, bought a Stihl 028 Super in 1991 and it was about $325 and that is equally irrelevant.



No it isn't.  I'm defending the honor of Stihl's clam shell engines.  You look askance at them, I say they are as reliable and durable as anything on the market.   



Firewood Bandit said:


> So a pro line, heated handle saw is $40 more than a clamshell. Doesn't seem like much of a choice does it?



See?  Your clam shell obsession is showing again.  You can keep your heated handles.  "My hands sure do get cold when I run a chainsaw" said no one ever.  



Firewood Bandit said:


> An Echo CS-590 is still the best value for the money.



That very well may be.  I have no complaints about my 360T.


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## Bigg_Redd

SXIPro said:


> Does a $50-$100 difference really going to influence anyone's decision an a saw? Heck, that's barely the price of a decent meal and a couple of pints.



No one will admit it, but it sure seems to.


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## Firewood Bandit

Bigg Redd,

Once you try heated handles you won't buy another saw without them.

My dealer now sells 80% of the Husky XP's , ( "G" model) with heated handles.  The professional loggers around here sure like them, but then what would they know when they have a saw in their hands every day regardless of weather.


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## Ashful

Bigg_Redd said:


> "My hands sure do get cold when I run a chainsaw" said no one ever.


lol!

I don't get the heated handles thing, either.  I do most of my cutting in winter, but have never had want for this option.  Maybe if it were -20F outside here, but in our typical above-zero winter weather, I have never seen this as an issue of concern.

Might be a good option for our Alaskan brethren, tho.


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## Firewood Bandit

Joful said:


> lol!
> 
> I don't get the heated handles thing, either.  I do most of my cutting in winter, but have never had want for this option.  Maybe if it were -20F outside here, but in our typical above-zero winter weather, I have never seen this as an issue of concern.
> 
> Might be a good option for our Alaskan brethren, tho.




Before you make a judgment, have you ran a heated handle saw for a day in moderate weather, say 10-20 degrees?

If you haven't, then this is not much different than making comments on saw models you know nothing about either.

It wasn't too long ago air conditioning was considered frivolous in a car.  Would you buy a car without A/C?


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## Minnesota Marty

I was in a hardware store selling echo chain saws yesterday and they have a Echo CS590 for $369 that comes with the Echo 20" bar and chain. 
That doesn't sound like too bad a price.  Am I right?


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## Firewood Bandit

Minnesota Marty said:


> I was in a hardware store selling echo chain saws yesterday and they have a Echo CS590 for $369 that comes with the Echo 20" bar and chain.
> That doesn't sound like too bad a price.  Am I right?



That is a smoking price.  The sale price is $399.


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## Isaiah53

I paid $529 for a 550XPG.

]
The MSRP of a 550XPG is almost $670 according their website.  I am curious if you can expect this large of a discount with Husqvarna dealers elsewhere.  Their pricing seems to be pretty secretive. The only reference have are the dealers on e-Bay that only list slightly below MSRP (maybe $650).  I do not have any Husky dealers near me.


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## Firewood Bandit

Isaiah53 said:


> I paid $529 for a 550XPG.
> 
> ]
> The MSRP of a 550XPG is almost $670 according their website.  I am curious if you can expect this large of a discount with Husqvarna dealers elsewhere.  Their pricing seems to be pretty secretive. The only reference have are the dealers on e-Bay that only list slightly below MSRP (maybe $650).  I do not have any Husky dealers near me.




Husky dealers will discount.  You probably aren't going to get a discount as much as I did, but then you probably haven't done the amount of business with this shop as I have either.


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## D8Chumley

Bigg_Redd said:


> You can keep your heated handles.  "My hands sure do get cold when I run a chainsaw" said no one ever..


That's funny right there! And $369 for a 590 with 20" bar, I just paid $399 with 18". Still a good deal in my eyes


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## SXIPro

Clarkbug said:


> Sure it does.  That's why they sell them for all different cost points.


 
Oh, I understand why they do it on the selling side. But as buyers no one should be saying "This saw suits my needs better but is $50-$100 more than this other one, I think I'll save the $$ and buy this less capable saw."  That makes zero sense whatsoever. None. Costs more than that to gas up the truck.


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## greythorn3

i dont know why we cant get the Echo 590 in alaska. hd wont ship and they arent in the store.


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## Firewood Bandit

SXIPro said:


> Oh, I understand why they do it on the selling side. But as buyers no one should be saying "This saw suits my needs better but is $50-$100 more than this other one, I think I'll save the $$ and buy this less capable saw."  That makes zero sense whatsoever. None. Costs more than that to gas up the truck.




Most people buy cheap saws for exactly that reason, they are cheap.

Seems like I heard a statistic that only about 10% of the saws sold are the high end pro saws of large displacement.  Most are the crap sold at box stores.


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## firefighterjake

Firewood Bandit said:


> Most people buy cheap saws for exactly that reason, they are cheap.
> 
> Seems like I heard a statistic that only about 10% of the saws sold are the high end pro saws of large displacement.  Most are the crap sold at box stores.



Makes sense when you figure there are also a lot of folks that buy a chainsaw solely for yard work or for very occasional use.


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## Firewood Bandit

firefighterjake said:


> Makes sense when you figure there are also a lot of folks that buy a chainsaw solely for yard work or for very occasional use.




From what I understand, the large # of refurbished saw for sale are because people have a specific use such as a tree falls down after a storm so they buy a saw at the big box store and use it.  Then they return it and get their money back.


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## firefighterjake

Firewood Bandit said:


> From what I understand, the large # of refurbished saw for sale are because people have a specific use such as a tree falls down after a storm so they buy a saw at the big box store and use it.  Then they return it and get their money back.



I can definitely believe that as well . . . saw this a number of years ago with an ice storm where folks bought generators and then returned the "defective" ones . . . most likely right after their power was restored. Very short sighted of them . . . but it worked out well for me. My "defective" generator that I bought was the last one at Home Depot -- gas tank was completely dry and the sticker on the muffler hadn't even burned off yet. I figure the folks that bought it, returned home to find the power back on . . . one would assume they were not so stupid to not put any gas in the tank.


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## johndams

Highbeam said:


> Farm boss is traditionally the 291, not the 271. I own the ms290 and it's great. I am really appreciating a long bar these days not so much fof the large logs but because you dont have to bend over to cut the round and get a sore back.
> 
> Any new saw i get will be capable of running a 24" bar.


all the ney sayers about echo don't know what there missing,if you don't own them you don't know;the 590 is the best buy on earth,i have 2 also husky's455-555 auto tune-365-372-and 4 older huskys [61-262-390-268]I have new stihls 271-391-441-[the 271 and 391 are ok, nothing special and the 600 dollor 391 cuts about as fast as the 400 dollor 590 echo.ihave jonsred 2261-new 2260[awsoom] an echo 680 that eats the stihl 391 up with a 24inch bar, the 391 has a 20inch, the stihl is good quality,but wont cut with the competition,now the stihl fathfull will get mad but they are not the saw the 039 super-029-older farm boss,the 441 15 years old is faster and better built than a 939 dollor new one,plus echo has a 5 YEAR WARRENTY AND THEY STAND BEHIND THEM,dont be brand brainwashed,i have a cs 400 echo that's 5 years old and have run hundreds of hours -starts up 2nd pull and cuts all day,the 680 has an oiler pump with your thumb when you need xtra oil,its awsoom simple good deal, good luck to all  john, full time pro'


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## Grateful11

Minnesota Marty said:


> I was in a hardware store selling echo chain saws yesterday and they have a Echo CS590 for $369 that comes with the Echo 20" bar and chain.
> That doesn't sound like too bad a price.  Am I right?



Our local dealer was running a killer deal of 20% off all Echo handheld equipment last week for some reason, it was suppose to be Saturday only but we went by on Friday and they were already discounting them. 

We got a CS-590 with a 24" bar for $329.95, it was $10 extra for the 24" bar and chain. Couldn't pass that up. Also picked up a CS-310 14" for $159.95. Wife even sweet talked him into throwing in an Echo boxset with an Echo hat, safety glasses and gloves. They gassed them both up and test ran them and said if they feel like they're running a bit lean once they're broke in bring them in and they would tune them. They've been in the outdoor power business for over 30 years.

OT: They carry TimberWolf wood splitters, wow what a nice looking splitter, especially the one with the 6-way wedge and a V-twin Honda $8600, I think.


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## Trktrd

I bought my 590 from a dealer that sells only Stihl and Echo.I  knew what I was after when I walked in the store. Yet he suggested I check out the Stihl saws. I grabbed the 590 and checked out. After all was said and done he admitted that he would have rather sold me a Stihl because they are always coming back for service and that's his bread and butter. He said it's a rare occasion that anyone brings back an Echo with a problem. Been running Echos for over twenty years and have no complaints.


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## HitzerHillbilly

I've had a MS 311 for a few years now! Been an excellent saw, but I won't be one to knock echo either.


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## Ashful

johndams said:


> echo has a 5 YEAR WARRENTY AND THEY STAND BEHIND THEM,dont be brand brainwashed,i have a cs 400 echo that's 5 years old and have run hundreds of hours -starts up 2nd pull and cuts all day


What I've always experienced, and have heard many repeat (landscapers and homeowners alike), is that the top end Echo equipment is dead reliable.  My 510 EVL had some years on it, but still fired and ran predictably, every time.  Same with my Echo blower and trimmer.  However, they do usually fall short of Stihl and Husqvarna saws on performance, in terms of power/weight ratio.  They also miss the little thing that Stihl just seems to get right, such as properly sizing and placing their fuel fillers, clear tanks, better ergonomics, etc.


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## rowerwet

I love my 590! After having an inherited ms261 die from abuse done before I got it, I bought a used husky 460. It does the job and has been good enough. I got an incomplete 455 but sold it later that year. This spring I bought an CS400 I couldn't believe how much faster the saw was, but still not everything I needed. 
I just found a brand new CS590 at home depot for $300, not only is it fast like the 400, but it has serious power!
My latest scrounge is a row of trees I have to fell, cut and clear. The job is going so much faster with the 590. I only use the 460 for limbing or when the 590 is dull or pinched.


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## mountainlake

With the Echo CS590 out there don't even consider a Stihl 291  or 311, not in the same league.   Steve


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## mountainlake

johndams said:


> all the ney sayers about echo don't know what there missing,if you don't own them you don't know;the 590 is the best buy on earth,i have 2 also husky's455-555 auto tune-365-372-and 4 older huskys [61-262-390-268]I have new stihls 271-391-441-[the 271 and 391 are ok, nothing special and the 600 dollor 391 cuts about as fast as the 400 dollor 590 echo.ihave jonsred 2261-new 2260[awsoom] an echo 680 that eats the stihl 391 up with a 24inch bar, the 391 has a 20inch, the stihl is good quality,but wont cut with the competition,now the stihl fathfull will get mad but they are not the saw the 039 super-029-older farm boss,the 441 15 years old is faster and better built than a 939 dollor new one,plus echo has a 5 YEAR WARRENTY AND THEY STAND BEHIND THEM,dont be brand brainwashed,i have a cs 400 echo that's 5 years old and have run hundreds of hours -starts up 2nd pull and cuts all day,the 680 has an oiler pump with your thumb when you need xtra oil,its awsoom simple good deal, good luck to all  john, full time pro'




A Echo CS590 is built just as good as the pro Husky and Stihl saws and WAY better than their rancher models, the best buy out there by far, I got a brand new one for $302 from Zoro when they had a 30% off sale for 1 day.  Far as cutting I was on a sawmill job yesterday and my customer ran my CS590 to cut some logs in half and he wanted to keep it at the end of the day, he owns a MS362 Stihl.  Steve


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## Hezz

Bought a CS590 a few weeks ago because of this thread and a few others. Paid full price (399), got a nice Husqvarna case at dealer cost and my son got a free hat... 

Couldn't be happier, saw starts easy and cuts much more quickly than any of the old worn out Stihl farm and ranch saws I have mostly used. Thanks for posting your experiences!


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## D8Chumley

Congrats on your purchase! Mine is back at the dealer right now. They are backed up 3 weeks, it wouldn't idle, kept shutting off. I'm sure it's just dirt in the carb somewhere, as sometimes even though I clean out my funnel there is still some dirt in it when it's in the back of my work truck. Hopefully I'll have it back next week. Other than that, I have no complaints. I'm getting itchy, it's about that time to start cutting the blowdowns and dead standing I've got around the woods here


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## Ashful

D8Chumley said:


> I'm getting itchy, it's about that time to start cutting the blowdowns and dead standing I've got around the woods here


Spent some time splitting the last two days, as is my tradition for this weekend [1].  So far, about a cord and a half of oak, and a half cord of mixed ash and sassafras.  Weather sucked today, with a slow rain all afternoon.  Didn't bother me much, but made a muddy mess of the grass around the wood piles, between foot and tractor traffic.

[1] - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/five-cords-one-finger.95375/


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## drz1050

I have an Echo CS-590 with a 20" bar. No complaints. Starts in 3 pulls when cold, one when hot. I've buried that bar into beech, oak and hickory and it just keeps going, as long as I don't lean on it (which I know you're not supposed to do anyways...)


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## D8Chumley

Ashful said:


> Spent some time splitting the last two days, as is my tradition for this weekend [1] - https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/five-cords-one-finger.95375/


I remember reading this. My back (ciatic nerve) started bothering me Wednesday and I still ain't 100% but that didn't stop me from a little something. Got a small dump trailer of oak 3x3s that have been coming to the job I'm on in the trailer loads of steel. Steel guys throw them away so I brought home a dump trailer load, made a small sawbuck and had to test it out. The 170 didn't care to be ripping through all that oak so I'll wait for the 590 to be fixed and give it heck


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## 711mhw

While not the saw this thread is talking about, I got a 490 echo a few weeks ago because either my (grab first for near 20 years saw) 044 is getting heavier, or I'm getting weaker. I have yet to read a negative review here or any where on Echo "stuff", and the Harbor freight pricing……  So far I am loving this lightweight saw for limbing and the smaller jobs. It was hard to pass on the TW 590 for that price, but I didn't think the (cc's) spread was enough to make sence. The 50cc cs490 seems like a perfect fit for my needs, and I feel like superman "flinging" that that little baby around!


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## Ashful

D8Chumley said:


> I remember reading this. My back (ciatic nerve) started bothering me Wednesday and I still ain't 100% but that didn't stop me from a little something.


That's funny, as I had the same exact problem Wednesday/Thursday.  Actually kept me awake Thursday.  Happens usually when I'm spending too many hours at my desk, and the fix is usually to get some exercise.  Now, my back is tired and muscles are sore, but that feels infinitely better than that ciatic pain.



711mhw said:


> While not the saw this thread is talking about, I got a 490 echo a few weeks ago because either my (grab first for near 20 years saw) 044 is getting heavier, or I'm getting weaker. I have yet to read a negative review here or any where on Echo "stuff", and the Harbor freight pricing……  So far I am loving this lightweight saw for limbing and the smaller jobs. It was hard to pass on the TW 590 for that price, but I didn't think the (cc's) spread was enough to make sence. The 50cc cs490 seems like a perfect fit for my needs, and I feel like superman "flinging" that that little baby around!


Echo = reliable solid equipment.  Their saws usually fall short of Stihl and Husqvarna on power/weight ratio, but they are well built.  Around here, landscapers all buy Echo, arborist a and tree fellers buy mostly Stihl, the balance being Husqvarna.


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## Kenster

Stihl all the way for me.  I have a MS390 that will out cut my buddy's MS 290 all day long.  I run a 16 inch bar on it.   All I have on our land is oak and hickory and the 390 slices through everything like a hot knife through butter.


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## VAfarmer38

I love my CS590.  I haven't done any carb adjustments or MM but have read that it will really make a difference in that saw.


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## rippinryno

D8Chumley said:


> It died. Must've been set up too lean and puked the P&C again. My buddy that put it together for me gave me $150 without the bar and chain because he felt bad so I figured for another $250 I won't be putting into the 360 I'll have a brand new 60cc saw with 5 yr warranty. Just have to figure out 18" or 20" bar. Leaning 20" with a rim sprocket right off the bat. He is going to rebuild it for his older dad that has a problematic 059 I think he said.
> The saw shop I deal with is run by an honest Mennonite family and we buy all our stuff from them through work. The father is who I usually speak with and he is pretty high on the 590 for the money, almost half the price of a new 362



Many folks will frown upon this, but if you're mechanical you can bring that stihl back to life with about $25 toward a new piston and cylinder aftermarket kit.  I currently have 2 ms290's running on china top ends that will rip wood just like they did brand new.


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## Buzzsawdust

Bigg_Redd said:


> Good point.  I dunno if I brought that up or not.
> 
> No it isn't.  I'm defending the honor of Stihl's clam shell engines.  You look askance at them, I say they are as reliable and durable as anything on the market.
> 
> See?  Your clam shell obsession is showing again.  You can keep your heated handles.  "My hands sure do get cold when I run a chainsaw" said no one ever.
> 
> That very well may be.  I have no complaints about my 360T.


Actually, I could say that frequently, I have a problem with my fingers going numb often when cutting in sub freezing temps, don't know why they just do and I'm always sticking them in front of the exhaust to keep them warm. Heated handles would be really nice.


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## wock

echo/shindaiwa is an excellent saw. much better than the "homeowner specials" we sell and I'm allowed to warranty in-house. (not that I ever need to do it.)

homelite and poulin and whatever other junk like Ryobi just gets sent back to the vendor to be disposed of. echo has a repair policy in place, so we just touch them up and sell them recon. 

usually it's a "garden rental" thing that gets them returned. someone buys it, uses it and returns it. you're rolling the dice trying that stunt tho, some managers will tell you to "have a nice day" when you attempt to return it used.


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## wock

I had one guy the other day returned 2 poulin pros in a row. customer "issues"... I think he thought if he kept screwing them up we would give him back his money or something. I think the manager told him he was done after the second one. "if you screw this one up, you will be paying for a repair or keeping it, broken."


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## StihlKicking

I am a STIHL person. That being said you don't have to buy a STIHL to get a good saw. If you cut a significant amount of wood do yourself a favor and buy a pro level saw regardless of what brand it is. One thing that has alleys annoyed me personally is 60 cc class saws regardless of make and model. A good 50cc with an 18" bar will cut most wood people encounter much more comfortably and cheaper. For anything a 50cc won't handle a 70 plus cc is usually needed. Everyone's need are different I understand but 60cc saws always seem either to big or to small for the work I do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pgtoman68

mountainlake said:


> A Echo CS590 is built just as good as the pro Husky and Stihl saws and WAY better than their rancher models, the best buy out there by far, I got a brand new one for $302 from Zoro when they had a 30% off sale for 1 day.  Far as cutting I was on a sawmill job yesterday and my customer ran my CS590 to cut some logs in half and he wanted to keep it at the end of the day, he owns a MS362 Stihl.  Steve


No way anyone wanted to trade a 362 Stihl for a 590. I own a 362 and have run side by side with a 590. No comparison the 590 is a great saw dont get me wrong but you would have to be out of your mind to think it's anywhere near a 362.


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## Ashful

StihlKicking said:


> I am a STIHL person. That being said you don't have to buy a STIHL to get a good saw. If you cut a significant amount of wood do yourself a favor and buy a pro level saw regardless of what brand it is. One thing that has alleys annoyed me personally is 60 cc class saws regardless of make and model. A good 50cc with an 18" bar will cut most wood people encounter much more comfortably and cheaper. For anything a 50cc won't handle a 70 plus cc is usually needed. Everyone's need are different I understand but 60cc saws always seem either to big or to small for the work I do.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I half agree with this.  In a multi-saw plan, the 60cc saw ends up being too heavy to be the “lighter” saw, and too wimpy to be the “bigger” saw.  I own an 036 Pro, based on it receiving countless recommendations on this forum, and I’m personally not a huge fan of it.

But then that begs the question, why is the 036/361 the (or at least one of the) most often recommended firewood cutter saws?  It’s a fairly heavy 63cc saw. 

I think it’s because it is maybe the best choice for the average joe who wants to own just one saw.  It will cut very nicely with an 18 inch bar, even 20” when you’re not regularly burying the nose in oak, and could even swing a 24” bar in a pinch.  You can easily process stuff up to 36” diameter with this saw, and even over 40” with some extra time and effort.

The 50cc class would also work for much of what the average firewood cutter comes across, but you’re going to find yourself needing a second (bigger) saw at least sometimes.  So, if you’re planning multi-saw ownership, 50cc may be the better choice.  But if you own only one saw, the recommendations for the 036/361 are actually pretty sound.

Then again, if I owned only one saw, it’d be the Stihl 44x.  Not that much heavier than 65cc, but oh so much sweeter.  I tend to get more large hardwoods than most folks, and even had to buy a 36” bar for my 064.


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## jwfirebird

i never felt like i needed a bigger saw than my 361/18in , the reasons why i wanted it are fairly light at 12 lbs and has enough power (almost 5 hp is plenty unless you are a professional of some kind,and i dont want to get beat by the extra 3-5 lbs for just 1 or 2 more hp ) for everything around here, up to like 20 inch maple, ash, and cherry. dont need two saws, dont need any more engines last count i think i have a dozen other engines to take care of. so i have started going battery on what i can, the saws all does good on small stuff and way easier than a gas engine. got a battery trimmer, does alot better than people would think too.


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## mountainlake

Pgtoman68 said:


> No way anyone wanted to trade a 362 Stihl for a 590. I own a 362 and have run side by side with a 590. No comparison the 590 is a great saw dont get me wrong but you would have to be out of your mind to think it's anywhere near a 362.




 If the CS590 wasn't close to your 362 it had a  dull safety chain or wasn't tuned good, a 362  might be a bit faster like 1 second  in a 15 second cut  in real life, plus the 362 saws Ive seen run like chit, hard to start.  Steve


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## Firewood Bandit

Well this old thread roared back to life.

I still say the Echo CS-590 is an excellent value, I wouldn't buy one as I opt for pro line saws I probably don't need.  

However with that said, A Stihl MS362 is no where even close to a Husky 562XP.  Since this was written I found a mint 357XP in a saw shop and snapped that up even though I already had one.  The 357XP are just like a bigger 346XP which is the finest saw ever made, especially when ported.


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## jwfirebird

the hard to strart is the ngk, once you put an e3 in it and I found it starts better without the com release pushed.  one or two pulls full choke switch to half then it always starts next pull. 

warm just have to switch It to run and pull it, I never use the comp rel


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## Ashful

mountainlake said:


> the 362 saws Ive seen run like chit, hard to start.  Steve


Your acquaintance with a few people who don’t know how to maintain a saw has nothing to do with the quality of the saw.  My 20+ year old 036 Pro starts every time, without issue or complaint.  Two pulls if I used it last week, three pulls if I used it last year.

I did have to put a new fuel line and carb gasket on it this spring, after leaving ethanol gas sit in it too long over the winter.  That is one down side of having older equipment, designed with materials chosen in the pre-ethanol age.  Antique Husqvarnas and Echos have the same problem.


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## sportbikerider78

Love my echo timberwolf.  Throws a rooster tail of chips 15 feet in the air like a dirt bike.  Love it.


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## T-roy_

mountainlake said:


> If the CS590 wasn't close to your 362 it had a  dull safety chain or wasn't tuned good, a 362  might be a bit faster like 1 second  in a 15 second cut  in real life, plus the 362 saws Ive seen run like chit, hard to start.  Steve


My 362 starts like a champ every time.  It is the m-tronic model....


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