# Looking for a large woodburning insert - Decided on Large Flush Arch by FireplaceX



## laxin213 (Sep 18, 2014)

Hello all,

I am new to your forums. I have a home built in 1985 outside of Buffalo NY. It has a large brick chimney that goes throughout the house, with a fireplace that is over 8 feet wide. The house is 2800 sq feet, high ceilings in great room. We are looking to fill the great room fireplace opening with a large wood burning insert to throw more heat and be more efficient, but are disappointed with what we are finding - looking to see if maybe I'm missing a brand or a model that would better suit our needs/wants?

The opening I have is as follows:

-47" Wide
-30" High
-18" Deep, then tapers to 31" deep at back center
-1,410 cubic inch viewing area (47"x30")

The largest insert we can find for this opening without doing brick demo is by Vermont Castings, the Merrimack. It is about 26.5" x 31.5" and has a viewing area of 25.5" x 14" (357 cubic inches). We looked at the pacific FP30 (won't fit) and the Super 27 and I made a table that showed at least in the products in my area - pacific had a really good warranty and lots of positive reviews on here. I was leaning pacific, but my wife liked the larger viewing area on the Merrimack, and the overall style. I'm talking myself into cast iron advantages over steel, and I like that the Merrimack has 22" log capacity, as opposed to the Pacific Super 27 with only 18". So I'm sort of settling on the Vermont castings Merrimack, but with a price of around $4800 installed, its a lot to pay to settle out and not be very satisfied.

I added an attachment that lists many major manufactures in my area - along with some specs on electrical warranty, baffle warranty, blower warranty, specs on size, efficient and some other stuff. It might be useful to someone. I'm also attaching a picture of my current fireplace and a picture of the chimney that you see when you lie on your back in the firebox of my current fireplace - this will have to be demo'ed and most local installers are saying its not a huge deal to do so. Any specific knowledge on this fireplace configuration would be appreciated.


What I'm hoping for most is someone will suggest a make or model that they own or know of that will fit my opening better and provide for more viewing area and not too much more price as I'm near the top of my budget.

Thanks for reading...


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## BurningBrutus (Sep 18, 2014)

Laxin, im in amherst, where are you?


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## BurningBrutus (Sep 18, 2014)

Also, go with the Blaze king Princess insert, Thats my suggestion


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## jeff_t (Sep 18, 2014)

The FP 30 is a zero clearance fireplace, not an insert. It is the same firebox as the Summit, which will fit in your fireplace. It is a step up from the Super.

The shorter log capacity of the PEs isn't a disadvantage. They are meant to be loaded north-south, meaning the splits placed straight in. This allows for better use of the full space of the firebox, and there is no chance of a split rolling up against the glass.

Vermont Castings hasn't been known for their customer service, and have had some quality issues the last several years, when the company has changed hand several times. It ain't the VC of old.

Here's some reading for you
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vermont-castings-merrimack.51941/


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 18, 2014)

Friends don't let friends buy VCs.  Keep shopping.


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## BurningBrutus (Sep 18, 2014)

Also, have you been to fireplace outlet, there on transit and a location on niagara falls blvd.


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## weatherguy (Sep 18, 2014)

We need to know if you can fit an 8 inch liner or have to stick with a 6 inch, an 8 inch will open up some more possibilities like the Kuma Sequoia. You can also go with a free stander in front of the fireplace. I'm heating 2800 sf and used to have the Blaze King Princess, this year I'm installing a Woodstock Progress Hybrid since I have to stay with my 6 inch liner and I wanted the stove with the most btu's.
Also don't get hung up on the size of logs that can fit, the overall cf of the box is more important.


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## Grisu (Sep 18, 2014)

There are quite a few additional large inserts on the market. Here are some:
Lopi Freedom 
Quadrafire 5100i
Osburn 2400
Pacific Energy Summit
Regency i3100
Enviro 1700 series (Technically more a large mid-size insert)
BlazeKing Princess (catalytic insert for longer burn times and more steady heat output)
Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre insert from Lopi, Avalon, and FireplaceXtraordinaire (same insert, different outside look)

If you can fit an 8" liner down your chimney you can also take a look at the Kuma Sequoia and Buck 91. 

Check each insert whether they will fit and if you have the required clearance to the wood mantel. You need also to make sure that you have at least 16" clearance from the door of the insert to the end of your hearth. Potentially, only flush inserts may work for your fireplace without the need to extend the hearth. 

Have the stove shop put a block-off plate in: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ That will greatly increase the heat retention. 

Make sure you have enough dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. Wood advertised as "seasoned" is rarely dry and should be tested with a moisture meter on a few freshly split pieces. 

Have a full liner put in; an insulated one is highly recommended unless you are sure that you have all required clearances on the outside of the chimney.


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## laxin213 (Sep 18, 2014)

Hello Brutus - I am in east aurora. Thanks for the referral to the blaze king princess. Also I need to check out fireplace outlet still On my list. I was planning on working with SouthTowns fireplace who is more of a distributor...

Hello jeff_t - thanks for the lesson on the north south loading principle. I didn't know about that and I do see
The advantage now, thanks. Thanks for the summit by PE clarification. And thanks for the huge thread on the VC Merrimack, I will read it!

Bigg redd - thanks for the word of caution on vC. I wish the boss wasn't so hot to trot on them!

Weather guy- the chimney is huge the part on the roof is over 4'x7'. I have to think I can get an 8" liner down it. The boss is not inboard with a free stander in front of it at all. Thanks for the input and referral to the kuma. 

Grisu- thanks for the huge post ! Still reading and googling the models !


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## begreen (Sep 18, 2014)

If the boss is involved the BK may not fly. It sounds like you need an aesthetic compromise. Take a look at the Hampton HI300, the Quadrafire Voyageur Grande and the Hearthstone Clydesdale.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 19, 2014)

begreen said:


> Hearthstone Clydesdale.



Saw one of these in person a couple months back in a red enamel - by far the best looking insert I've yet seen


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## laxin213 (Sep 19, 2014)

Guys thanks again for the updates and model suggestions. I read the entire Merrimack thread linked above. Seems like people have complained about VERY loud (like 65 DBa) loud blowers on high. It would be near my TV so I sure don't like that.. Also with VC being sold a couple times and people getting stuck on the warranty aspect, bad stuff. Seems like blowers are getting wrapped with sound deadening material, getting replaced, and overall being a big hassel. Also, the burn times for such a large firebox are leaving many disappointed. And the blower is taking forever (1+ hour) to come on and guys having their dealer jump the control switch to manual and messing with it themselves.  Some people have had good luck, but I'm hoping to Steer clear of VC..

Had a chat with the Boss. I took her early on to look at Quardafire Grand Voyager and the Hampton Regency HI300 in gloss brown. I though "shinny and glossy she would surely go for it". and the HI300 has a long model history, people seemed to have pretty good luck with it. I was focusing early on it the HI300... She hated them - too glossy, too overdone - she said "looks like a big Italian home in the 1980's." So I have sought to redefine her "Selection criteria" to as follows:


-#1 - Large Viewing area (I'm on board here, hopefully get a decent inherent glass wash system). Going from a fireplace with a 1,410 cu inch viewing area to a Merrimack which was 352 cubic inches is a big step down. and that's a larger viewing area from what I'm seeing out there...

-#2 No big metal handles sticking out ( Wood handle or removable )

-#3 No silver, chrome, brass, gloss paint or shinny metal (flat black it seems is what she wants)

-#4 Flush fit  would be nice, but not necessary. No way on a potbelly type in or in front of the fireplace opening she wants as seamless a fit as possible.


#5 "The overall look of the unit to be less intimidating". The Merrimack looks more feminine with rounded cast iron on the grates, the grates have wider openings. I can't find any other inserts that she feels are "feminine". 

-Price - HA! I have a price concern. a local dealer quoted me $5399 for a Merrimack installed with a 35' insulated liner, plain Exter surround and fab plate to cover more area behind it. . Seemed real high seeing people in the thread on Merrimack being quoted at $3900 - $4600 depending on specs and taxes. I'd rather wait til the spring and buy it off season if I have to...
I'm printing out pictures and taking her on Saturday to look at a few more. As it stands now the Hearthstone Clydesdale and the Jotul C550 are in the possible competitors. We've looked at most everything from PE (I'm showing her summit again) and osburn already (I guess enerzone is a division of the same company that makes osburn).  I'm going to look at the blaze king princess too. Still looking for local dealers on the lopi, kuma and buck, and adding specs to my spreadsheet. But in the end it's going to end up with viewing area and if she likes the overall design and look and feel. I've been getting quite a few toys lately and I'm trying to convince her this is one for her - she isn't buying it, unless she picks it. We shall see


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## Grisu (Sep 19, 2014)

Tough one. I suggest to take a look at the Enviro 1700 Kodiak or Venice, the PE Neo 2.5, and the Large Flush Hybrid-Fyre insert(s) from Lopi, Avalon, and FireplaceXtraordinaire (although those may be out of your budget). Problem is that large viewing area means large insert which comes with a higher price tag.


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## laxin213 (Sep 19, 2014)

The PE neo she gave a thumbs down on. But she liked the looks of the enviro 1700 (177 sq inch view) and the fireplaceX LFH (319 sq inch view) . We're going to look at both, but I got an over the phone price on the LFH of $4100, plus 800 for a 35' liner and 695 for install (says no tax if they install). So about $5600 total. I'm at about $1000 less for the Merrimack (352 sq inch view), but the .58 g/hr on emissions on the LFH along with the better warranty and seemingly better experiences with Travis ind make it compelling...


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## begreen (Sep 19, 2014)

I'd get her to compromise. You want something that works well for years. The Hampton comes standard in black. The enamel is optional. Don't go for flush if the primary goal is heating. A flush insert always requires the blower to run. The Clydesdale's depth is adjustable and should also be a front runner. Not sure about the Jotul. Some folks love the C550 and others complain that it is not the best heater. Also look at the Enviro Venice or Boston 1700. They are the Kodiak 1700 insert with a fancier cast iron front plate.


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## Grisu (Sep 19, 2014)

It looks like a completely interior fireplace. Any heat not moved out by the blower will therefore be absorbed by the brick and slowly released into the home. You will get the effect of a masonry heater. Two caveats: It will take longer to feel the heat with a flush insert when starting a fire and not using the blower and make sure to not overfire the insert when having the blower turned off. I have a similar type of install and run the blower only the first two hours of the burn. Then I turn it off and rely on the natural convection around the insert and the brick radiating the heat into the room. I have woken up to a cold stove and the fireplace was still warm keeping the room (house) nice and cozy.


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## laxin213 (Sep 19, 2014)

Great points thank you on flush vs protrusion. Saturday I hope to look at:

-HI400 in flat black (250sq in vs 203 sq in viewing area) looks like it loses some benefits of the hi300. Will have to check reviews. 
-hearthstone Clydesdale
-jotul c550
-enviro 1700 Venice


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## Grisu (Sep 19, 2014)

Honestly, I think your problem is that your wife has her heart set on the Merrimack which - what coincidence - fits exactly her criteria. Unless she says to one of the other choices:" That looks nice.", you will have to decide between getting the insert you want versus buying the Merrimack and the wife being happy. And as people say:" Happy wife, happy life." 

Btw. Don't get too hung up on the viewing area. The fire will take up the whole space in the insert while I have never seen a fire that fills a whole fireplace. That "downsizing" will have less of an effect than you may think.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 20, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Honestly, I think your problem is that your wife has her heart set on the Merrimack which - what coincidence - fits exactly her criteria.



WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! ! ! ! ! !


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## jotulguy (Sep 20, 2014)

Since you have a rather large opening and it sounds like you need the heat, have you considered a hearth mount stove? That opens up a whole bunch of new options for your installation.


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## laxin213 (Sep 22, 2014)

We did look into the hearth mount stoves a bit. But I think we really have it narrowed down to 3 models:

-hearthstone Clydesdale
-VC Merrimack
-Quadrafire 5100i

The local dealer for hearth and quad don't have the models on display. But a dealer out about an hour does have all the quad models on display - 5100i, 4100i and a grand voyager which we've never seen in person. He did say that the glass wash airflow on the 4100i and the grand voyager is much better than on the 5100i. He doesn't have a hearthstone Clydesdale on display though, but another dealer about 30 minutes further does. Hoping to head out Wednesday, thanks again for replies.

Edit: boss is really hung up on viewing size. I made some cardboard templates to show the difference between the sizes I measured off the Merrimack and the Clydesdale:

Merrimack: 25.125"x14.125"= 354 sq inch view

Clydesdale: 22"x11.5"=253 sq inch view

That sounds dramatic but TVs aren't sold on square inches, they're sold on diagonals, so I did some pathogrem theorem a2+b2=c2 and rounded to nearest 1/8th:

Merrimack: 28 7/8" diagonal
Clydesdale: 24 7/8" diagonal

Once you see it on the cardboard, the sizes are pretty darn close.


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## laxin213 (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!

We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.


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## Bigg_Redd (Sep 25, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!
> 
> We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.



You avoided the VC trap, so, well done.  Keep us posted on your FPX.


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## prezes13 (Sep 25, 2014)

I 


laxin213 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!
> 
> We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.


almost got that stove too.  But my dealer told me it would be an over kill for me.  Please post pic. And a review of the stove as soon as you will start burning.


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## begreen (Sep 25, 2014)

Good going. Take pics before, during and after the install if possible. What's happening with the wood supply? This stove is going to want fully seasoned wood to burn well.


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## laxin213 (Sep 25, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You avoided the VC trap, so, well done.  Keep us posted on your FPX.



Thanks sir.



prezes13 said:


> I almost got that stove too.  But my dealer told me it would be an over kill for me.  Please post pic. And a review of the stove as soon as you will start burning.



I was concerned about it throwing too much heat. But the room we are putting it in is 36'x22' and high ceilings open to the floor above so the dealer thought it would be ok. Will do...



begreen said:


> Good going. Take pics before, during and after the install if possible. What's happening with the wood supply? This stove is going to want fully seasoned wood to burn well.



Will do on the pics.

Ahh the wood... new house has 6 acres, of which 5 or so have trees, but there is a nasty ravine separating the land, that's nice to look at but my gator utv can't cross. I have started to stockpile some logs from dead standers, but that is only about a cord or 2 so far. We just moved in about a year ago and just got married this summer so I tell myself its an excuse when I have a million projects to work on...

So I'm in the boat of buying and/or bartering until I can get a stockpile going of wood that I'm sitting on to burn in future years. . I have spoken to my dealer and was educated on these forums just through reading posts of how important it is to get wood that is dry, at least less than 20% MC. So I grabbed my moisture meter (I'm a hobby workworker and I already had one). Here's what I currently have:

***1.75 cords of Cherry  with an MC off a fresh middle split of 4 random pieces 18,16,21,20 %. Purchased in 2013 off Craigslist for $120 a cord delivered

***5 cords of Shagbark Hickory with an MC off a fresh middle split of 4 random pieces at 26, 28, 31, 27%. Purchased off Craigslist for $90 a cord, I picked it up

***1 Cord of Oak (no idea on species) with an MC off a middle split of 4 random pieces at 14,13,13,12%. Came from a tree I took at my dads

***0.5 cord of Ash with an MC off a middle split of 4 random pieces at 16,15,18,19%. Came from a tree I took at my dads

I bought wood last year (that I burned) from a guy off Craigslist a couple towns away. He has mixed hardwoods (Oak, Ash, Maple, Elm Beech) for $100 a face cord (4'x8' in 18" pieces) delivered in a dump trailer. He's a real nice guy, I just swung by his house today after work and I'm going to buy another 5 cords or so off of him, so I can let all 5 cords of the Shagbark Hickory I have sit another year, and hopefully find some time to cut some of my own as well. I tested a few random pieces off a fresh split of his wood and it was between 16%-18%...

Boy it's easy when a guy drops off that much wood in a dump trailer, I just sit back,watch him dump it out, and toss it in back of my gator and stack. Easy peasy.


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## begreen (Sep 25, 2014)

That is a good start, but be prepared for your famous snows. Put some covers on the top of the stacks.


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## laxin213 (Sep 26, 2014)

begreen said:


> That is a good start, but be prepared for your famous snows. Put some covers on the top of the stacks.



Will do on the covers.

The local stove shop uses a paint called "Stove Bright" to paint - at no extra cost, the insert face and surround plate if you desire. They have a copper type color the wife is keen on, and I made some rough "previews" in photoshop._._ I'd like to avoid painting the hinges as I'm concerned about long term durability.

Here are the "previews", pardon my lack of Photoshop skills. Copper is a funny color to try to "get" as one shade, because its really a variation of a bunch of shades as a metal. But as a paint its going to be one shade with some metallic flakes. The options as I see them:

-Paint the surround
-paint the front face plate
-paint the door

We're thinking something now like: surround the typical dark grey/black, the front face plate copper, the door in the typical grey/black.


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## BCC_Burner (Sep 26, 2014)

Every time I read one of these threads it reinforces the value of my decision to stay single.


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## laxin213 (Sep 27, 2014)

begreen said:


> That is a good start, but be prepared for your famous snows. Put some covers on the top of the stacks.



As far as the covers, I have some full cord covers, does covering just the very top allow the wood to dry better than covering the entire cord? Has anyone done an experiment on this?


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## laxin213 (Sep 27, 2014)

BCC_Burner said:


> Every time I read one of these threads it reinforces the value of my decision to stay single.



Fewer toys married that's for sure, and eventually some compromises in decisions, but she keeps me from getting in all the trouble that I got in single , and it is nice having home cooked meals to eat while I look at our shared agreement stove  but mostly, I think everyone should do what's best for them , and if you're someone that always need to get their way and can't comprise, save yourself from Marriage that's for sure my Opinion.


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## Grisu (Sep 27, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> As far as the covers, I have some full cord covers, does covering just the very top allow the wood to dry better than covering the entire cord? Has anyone done an experiment on this?



If the wood is dry you can cover it completely to make sure it stays dry but be aware of ground moisture. If the wood still needs to dry, top-cover only. Same principle as clothes on a drying rack. Wrapped in plastic they certainly would not dry.


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## woodsman416 (Sep 27, 2014)

Others can chime in but I'd recommend moving the TV.


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## laxin213 (Sep 29, 2014)

woodsman416 said:


> Others can chime in but I'd recommend moving the TV.



It's an LCD not a plasma so I was hoping to leave it there. Last year, although not much heat was thrown, it never really got hot.


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## awest74 (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm watching this thread intently as I plan to get the Hybrid Fire also, the arch model from Lodi. I'm in the process of putting out for quotes and am interested in how you did, did you insist on insulated liners, installing roxul or a blocking plate? If so what was the up charge? I'm in the Boston area. ...


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## laxin213 (Oct 3, 2014)

awest74 said:


> I'm watching this thread intently as I plan to get the Hybrid Fire also, the arch model from Lodi. I'm in the process of putting out for quotes and am interested in how you did, did you insist on insulated liners, installing roxul or a blocking plate? If so what was the up charge? I'm in the Boston area. ...



At the moment here is my quote. I looked at 2 local stove shop dealers that sell Travis (basically the only 2) and they were both close in price. I went with the much more local one, that has been in business far longer. 

I have a center of the house chimney. It stick out about 4' above the roof. I wasn't going to get an insulated liner for my install because from my understanding - insulated liners are almost required for side of house chimneys, but not so much for central home chimneys. 

1 - FPX Large Flush Arch ($4550)
-with large Custom surround fabricated
-Artisan Hand Hammered Face 
-Painted face "Copper" Stove Bright Paint

2-Hardwire kit with plug ($63)

3-SS Liner kit for 35' uninsulated in 6" ($806)

4-Roxol Insulation for "wool blanket" ($45) - I'm going to ask them about this and getting a block off plate instead. 

So that comes to $5464. They gave me $294 off because of a "sale" they had running, and I printed out a $100 off coupon from the FPX website (expired 9/30). That took it down to $5070. Their install fee is $675, and if they isntall, there is no tax as their is "proof" of a capital improvement. My total was $5745. Keep in mind the Hammered artisan face is like a $400 option, and they had to custom fab a plate for my surround too, and paint it (which they threw in for "free"). I had another quote with just the large surrond, no artisan and all black for like $4100 from the other local dealer. My dealer claims in the off season they go about 15% less which would be for me about $675 so $3875 for my insert. They you factor in saving some on your heating bill this winter... Sure wasn't cheap and I'm not entirely convinced I got a great deal at all, but I'm thinking I wasn't totally ripped off either....


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## awest74 (Oct 3, 2014)

Thanks for all the details, I am just outside of Boston so have 3 local dealers, I will meet with the first today. I'll let you know how I do so get some closure on your last sentence 

Also, Damn you for mentioning the hammered face, If I show that to SWMBO its going to cost me 400 more too....maybe I have a ball hammer around ......


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## laxin213 (Oct 3, 2014)

awest74 said:


> Thanks for all the details, I am just outside of Boston so have 3 local dealers, I will meet with the first today. I'll let you know how I do so get some closure on your last sentence
> 
> Also, Damn you for mentioning the hammered face, If I show that to SWMBO its going to cost me 400 more too....maybe I have a ball hammer around ......



Oh don't worry she'll probably see it in a brochure or walking the showroom. My sister and brother in law are moving back my way after living in Bridgewater, MA which is south of Boston as I recall. 

Maybe you can fanangle this coupon to work for you, it's expired by a few days, but get your best price and say "the other dealer took this coupon while it was valid - will you?"

At least the Hammered face only is costing you $300 now, SWMBO will be pleased


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## laxin213 (Oct 5, 2014)

Get any quotes? My install is 10-23 so no action here..


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## Alan W (Oct 13, 2014)

I did mine 2 years ago for about $4500. Get the green start. I installed with no issues but two things. I ended up pulling it out and putting it on 1" bricks to raise it off the floor a bit- so the fan didn't suck in the ash. Also the blower densor location from the factory is off. Have them adjust that for you right away. 

Great stove with great heat. Came home tonight from vacation to a 60' house. Room was up to 80' in an hour.


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## laxin213 (Oct 14, 2014)

Alan W said:


> I did mine 2 years ago for about $4500. Get the green start. I installed with no issues but two things. I ended up pulling it out and putting it on 1" bricks to raise it off the floor a bit- so the fan didn't suck in the ash. Also the blower densor location from the factory is off. Have them adjust that for you right away.
> 
> Great stove with great heat. Came home tonight from vacation to a 60' house. Room was up to 80' in an hour.



Should this say "The blower *sensor *location from the factory is off*"  *Can you elaborate on this or post a link to a thread I want to be informed if the installers don't know about this. Thank you


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## Alan W (Oct 14, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> Should this say "The blower *sensor *location from the factory is off*"  *Can you elaborate on this or post a link to a thread I want to be informed if the installers don't know about this. Thank you



Yes, this was before I joined the threads here so I have no link.  And its an easy fix if you know what to look for.

Basically, the issue is this.  The green start blower would mount on the left.  The heat sensor is on the right.  However, its a bit too far to the right- causing the blower to take too long to kick on- and for some fires- would do something it shouldn't- waffle on and then off.  They moved and replaced the sensor at the same time- as it was obviously defective.. (It should kick on and stay on until it cools down to a much lower temp).  

By moving it about two inches to the left, the blower comes on at a much more appropriate time.  Again they may have already fixed the issue..  To move it, all he did was remove the right side blower fan, and unclip the sensor and relocate it.  I don't have any pictures to share- but the tech said it was a known issue- and when I bought the stove, the "Service call" was free- even though I installed it.  They normally do this themselves when they install so that they don't have to come back.

hope this helps.


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## laxin213 (Oct 23, 2014)

So the big install was today, but there was a big problem and as of now the stove shop is going to refund my deposit. There is a bunch of these concrete blocks in the smoke chamber at the top of the firebox. These concrete blocks (kind of like a cinder block?)  are *staggered *and go upwards for 58". Thats the problem. The shop said they've seen this before - but the blocks don't usually go anywhere near that high. It also makes cleaning a bear - as crestole has built up on them as commented by another stove shop that did the sweep. The picture I attached is laying on your back in the fireplace's firebox and looking up.

So as of now they are going to refund my deposit. I'm really bummed out. They usually use a concrete demo hammer and the longest bit they have for it is 18". He measured the amount we need to demo at 58". In the middle of all these blocks is what the installer called a "lineman's damper". Which makes it a bit trickier but not a deal breaker.But still no real way to make a 6" round hole. and I don't want to do a bunch of demo and still have no insert and a messed up fireplace....

Anyone know of a really long demo hammer bit anywhere? The openings in the blocks are maybe 3"x7" as they taper up, too narrow to ovalize the liner. The install guy said "hey you could just slide the insert in without a liner an 2' of pipe, but you'll draft terribly, it's not code and illegal, its extremely dangerous and we won't do the install. Thats about your only option".

Any thoughts? Or am I burning a plain fireplace this year?


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## Spletz (Oct 23, 2014)

I newly own the same FPX, can't help you with the flue issues, but I can tell you now that TV has to move!  Mine is slightly different, plain front. I am very happy with it. 

But the heat generated will melt the TV. 

Good luck with the install.


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## Alan W (Oct 23, 2014)

I have the exact same one as Spletz.  I did not have your issue, but had a heck of a time a year later when I moved the green start compressor underneath in the basement and had to hammer drill the 1.5 inch hold through the firebox floor to run the hose.  

My only thought would be to remove the bricks on the outside to access those blocks- remove them and rebuild.  I think it may be quicker, cheaper and a better job than trying to do what you are looking for.


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## Spletz (Oct 23, 2014)

Alan, I didn't get the green start option. How do you like it? Does it live up to its marketing?  We did consider it briefly, but figured it overkill.


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## Alan W (Oct 23, 2014)

I have not used a match, kindling or paper in that fireplace for two years.  Do I like it, yes- especially for that room.  It is a bit noisy, which is why I relocated the compressor.  Its not bad- just their was no place to hide it anyway.  You also have to get use to stacking the wood properly for a cold start.  However, with a reload- its brainless.  Open flue- dump in wood.  close flue.  push button and walk away for 10 hours.
My other stove, I was considering another one- which I would have moved the green start into a cabinet that is next to the fireplace and that would have been fine.  But decided on a different style all together - and save some money.

but overall, I do give it two thumbs up!  My only regret is not thinking of and patenting it first.  I expect a lot of copy cats when that paperwork runs out.


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## Grisu (Oct 23, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> So the big install was today, but there was a big problem and as of now the stove shop is going to refund my deposit. There is a bunch of these concrete blocks in the smoke chamber at the top of the firebox. These concrete blocks (kind of like a cinder block?)  are *staggered *and go upwards for 58". Thats the problem. The shop said they've seen this before - but the blocks don't usually go anywhere near that high. It also makes cleaning a bear - as crestole has built up on them as commented by another stove shop that did the sweep. The picture I attached is laying on your back in the fireplace's firebox and looking up.
> 
> So as of now they are going to refund my deposit. I'm really bummed out. They usually use a concrete demo hammer and the longest bit they have for it is 18". He measured the amount we need to demo at 58". In the middle of all these blocks is what the installer called a "lineman's damper". Which makes it a bit trickier but not a deal breaker.But still no real way to make a ^" round hole. and I don't want to do a bunch of demo and still have no insert and a messed up fireplace....
> 
> ...



Try to find a mason or certified sweep who also does a lot of masonry work to take a look at it. Maybe it can be cut out with the right equipment and knowledge.


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## laxin213 (Oct 24, 2014)

Grisu said:


> Try to find a mason or certified sweep who also does a lot of masonry work to take a look at it. Maybe it can be cut out with the right equipment and knowledge.



I had a union mason (who is a former neighbor) re-point the chimney this summer and re-cap it. He has seen my setup and although he doesn't specialize in chimneys per-say, he is qualified in my eyes. I showed him the pictures and explained the issue, and he said - no go he couldn't do it. I will continue to look around for another sweep or mason that might be more knowledgeable in this.


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## CT Burner (Oct 24, 2014)

Sorry you busted out on this. We have the large insert new this year and really like it so far.   Hope you can fix the chimney issue.  Maybe a tile breaker from the top down?


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## laxin213 (Oct 27, 2014)

CT Burner said:


> Sorry you busted out on this. We have the large insert new this year and really like it so far.   Hope you can fix the chimney issue.  Maybe a tile breaker from the top down?



I looked up tile breakers a bit. I need to go through cinder blocks not sure if it would be long enough, and from that point up is like a solid 20' so I'm not sure if there would be too much torque on it. Also don't they usually break clay tiles? Strong enough?  I'm having another stone/ brick union mason come out hopefully this week to look at it. The stove shop basically is ready to refund my deposit and I'm just totally bummed out...

After that I plan to try to find a local chimney sweep that is experienced take a look. I also had another stove shop from the other end of town come out and give an estimate on a Hearthstone Clydesdale - and he said no go based on the smoke chamber tile issue.


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## awest74 (Oct 27, 2014)

Guys, I'm back had a go with a few local stores and most came in around 5500 after all the negotiatins both sides could stand. As it turns out I already have an 8" liner the fully length of my chimeny and a cap, so have decided to save the 1800 they were charging for installation and do it myself. The company I got the stove from, for ~3700.00 ( including delvery, tax etc...) is providing the 8" to 6" converter, a length of 6" liner and the coupling to the stove. It does mean that I also will have to drill a 1" hole through the back of my fireplace for the power and compressor, which will then angle down and into the basement for noise reduction. I take delivery on Wednesday and will most likely get to the install on the weekend, wish me luck, I send any advice you have!

I plan to install the coupling, some roxul then a blocking plate.

One questions, did everyone use masony seal ( or whatever it is called) on all unions? The installer I talked to said it wasnt necessary.


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## FPX Dude (Oct 27, 2014)

Spletz said:


> I newly own the same FPX, can't help you with the flue issues, but I can tell you now that TV has to move!  Mine is slightly different, plain front. I am very happy with it.
> 
> But the heat generated will melt the TV.
> 
> ...



TV will be just fine, the blower and the mantle will deflect any heat and concerns you have.  Here's mine https://www.hearth.com/gall/v/WoodStoves/heartcomfireplace.jpg.html


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## Renjilj (Oct 27, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. Bought one!
> 
> We settled on a FireplaceX Large Flush Arch. Its made by Travis industries, same company that makes Lopi and Avalon. I wasn't too keen on the lack of projection into the room, but the guy showed me how it's like channeled to funnel warm air into the room even if the blower is off ( I attached a pic of this from the brochure). 3.0 cubic foot firebox, up to 24" logs, 80.3% efficient, and really low emissions like .5g (although I'm sure thats with some Frankenstein log that I'll never burn) and 12 hour burn time also swayed me. The boss liked the looks a lot, and they have an "Artisan" hand hammered face that costs like $300 more (rip off - boss wanted it), but the dealer gave me a couple discounts and I had a coupon from their website for $100 off...Long standing stove shop, good local reputation, CSIA certified (thanks Begreen for showing me that on another thread) ... It has a pretty decent warranty (a lot better than the VC). Due to install in about a month, I'll add pictures then. Thanks again everyone.


Check the fine print on the front clearance carefully - 16" typical in US (18" Canada) UNLESS a flush hearth (<3"H)...  In my case, jumped to 29" with R2 requirement!!


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## Grisu (Oct 27, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> I looked up tile breakers a bit. I need to go through cinder blocks not sure if it would be long enough, and from that point up is like a solid 20' so I'm not sure if there would be too much torque on it. Also don't they usually break clay tiles? Strong enough?  I'm having another stone/ brick union mason come out hopefully this week to look at it. The stove shop basically is ready to refund my deposit and I'm just totally bummed out...
> 
> After that I plan to try to find a local chimney sweep that is experienced take a look. I also had another stove shop from the other end of town come out and give an estimate on a Hearthstone Clydesdale - and he said no go based on the smoke chamber tile issue.




I understand your frustration; I would not have felt any different. If there is no way of cutting out those grates I guess you are left with two options:
1) Put a freestanding stove somewhere else with its own chimney. 
2) Put a stove in front of the fireplace and try to access the chimney above that grate. Similar to this:





Both are probably not what you wanted but you will at least have a stove in your home.


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## bren582 (Oct 27, 2014)

hearthstone Clydesdale gets my vote, I love it as does the wife,


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## Alan W (Nov 1, 2014)

Spletz said:


> I newly own the same FPX, can't help you with the flue issues, but I can tell you now that TV has to move!  Mine is slightly different, plain front. I am very happy with it.
> 
> But the heat generated will melt the TV.
> 
> ...


 We have the same fireplace, and have a large picture hanging directly overhead.  Does not get hot- no need to move the TV.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 1, 2014)

laxin213 said:


> Anyone know of a really long demo hammer bit anywhere?


If it were me I'd be a cuttin n a weldin some extensions. Might not be pretty, but at the end of the day I'd have a big chimney liner shaped hole up through there! Find a welding or fab shop that would be willing to tackle this.

Another idea, call a concrete cutting/drilling service, heck, they may have just whats needed right on the truck, might cost ya a few hundred bucks but hey, mama wants a wood fire, right?! They may be able to bore a perfectly round hole up through there, I've seen these guys cut huge holes in some really thick concrete in some really...well, less than ideal situations! Worth a phone call anyways


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## laxin213 (Nov 3, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> If it were me I'd be a cuttin n a weldin some extensions. Might not be pretty, but at the end of the day I'd have a big chimney liner shaped hole up through there! Find a welding or fab shop that would be willing to tackle this.
> 
> Another idea, call a concrete cutting/drilling service, heck, they may have just whats needed right on the truck, might cost ya a few hundred bucks but hey, mama wants a wood fire, right?! They may be able to bore a perfectly round hole up through there, I've seen these guys cut huge holes in some really thick concrete in some really...well, less than ideal situations! Worth a phone call anyways



The stone mason that did the pointing and top cap on the chimney made it out here to take a look. He brought a guy that has done a lot of concrete demo work for their masonry company. He said "we can do it, I need to get back to you on a price when I can research how long of a demo hammer bit I can get."

So that was great news. If their price is sky high, I'll try the drilling service idea. Thanks!


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## awest74 (Nov 6, 2014)

Quick update for those interested. Turns out I had a 9 inch liner all the way up the chimney from a previous owner, so am doing the install myself. Company dropped of the Large Arch top Hybrid yesterday. I was able to drill through the firebox and snake the greenstart tube and power cord into the basement. Easy to write, lots of work to achive. The firebox was 1/4 thick steel, but a cheap harbor freight step bit, some gear oil and a low speed drill made quick work of it. Carried the insert into my living room with the help of a neighbor and would be set to go, except the guy who came to inspect the fireplace before the purchase wrongly assumed my liner was 8", so I am held up waiting for a 9" coupling.

Anyway, excited to get it going and will try an post some pictures of the install.

One questions I have is, as noted I have a steel firebox that is easily large enough for the insert. Since the 9" liner almost complete fills the opening into the 9x9 flue, and the chimney is in the center of the house, not on an outside wall, I was considering just filling any gaps between the liner and flue with a few inches of roxul and skipping the blocking plate. Can anyone suggest reasons I shouldnt? There is 2 feet of headroom in the firebox above the fireplace area, but it is pretty small volume since it angles into the 9x9 flue. The other option is to get some sheet metal and make a 9x9 plate that I can mount on the coupling to block off the opening after the roxul.

thoughts?


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## webfish (Nov 7, 2014)

awest74 said:


> Quick update for those interested. Turns out I had a 9 inch liner all the way up the chimney from a previous owner, so am doing the install myself. Company dropped of the Large Arch top Hybrid yesterday. I was able to drill through the firebox and snake the greenstart tube and power cord into the basement. Easy to write, lots of work to achive. The firebox was 1/4 thick steel, but a cheap harbor freight step bit, some gear oil and a low speed drill made quick work of it. Carried the insert into my living room with the help of a neighbor and would be set to go, except the guy who came to inspect the fireplace before the purchase wrongly assumed my liner was 8", so I am held up waiting for a 9" coupling.
> 
> Anyway, excited to get it going and will try an post some pictures of the install.
> 
> ...



Awest74, please start a new thread.


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## laxin213 (Nov 11, 2014)

Stone Mason shot me a price of $400 to demo out a 6" hole five feet long in the cinder block of the smoke chamber. He arrived at this price because he thinks its a 2 man job (1 guy holding a light, assisting in removal, other guy demo hammering and then guys switch off when fatigued) they'll take about 3 hours. 

Went back to the local stove shop and they will cover $250 of it by knocking $250 off the price of the insert. Not great but it's an extra $150 out of my pocket for my insert and they met me more than halfway so I settled on that.

Mason is coming tomorrow to do the work and my new install date is 11/28 (they bumped me up as far as they could as they are typically a month out). Its been a long wait considering I started looking in August and put down a deposit in September, but at least I'll have an insert to burn this year!

Some pics of the great $400 hole coming soon


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## laxin213 (Nov 13, 2014)

Took 2 masons about 5 hours to do the job. 18 5 gallon buckets of debris were removed. They made the bottom 2 courses wider so they could squat and then stand to demo out the hole. Stove shop gave me a scrap piece so we could test the fit, looks like a good one. Install is 11/28 can't wait !


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## laxin213 (Nov 14, 2014)

Put up a scrap piece of polystyrene foam board I had around. Used painters take so I don't get any tape gunk on the brick. Maybe save some heat loss for the next 2 weeks...

Going to try to convince the wife they came early and did the install - that's the shinny chrome and blue lettered faced fireplace she wanted right??? Maybe just for a second to see if it would even get her going I really doubt it, but maybe some of the wonderful inlaws we'll be seeing on thanksgiving ... Haha


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## laxin213 (Nov 29, 2014)

Install was yesterday. Two questions arose:

1-they did not use a block off plate on above the insert into the chimney. Roxul was stuffed into the opening, and some insulation was also placed and taped around the liner. A plate was added at the top below the cap and the installer said he added insulation below it. Center of home chimney. Is this a problem or is it ok?

2-the manual states (and restates with emphasis) that chimney cement must be used where the insert meets the liner as well as anywhere the liner meets an adapter, and also to the chimney cap at the top. For the insert to the liner portion, they wrapped it in insulation and then taped it. the installer said it was superior to chimney cement- because cement can Crack over time . Is this true and should I change this?

Thanks for the input. I did 3 small break in fires for the last 24 hours doing some larger fires today. I have a lot to learn about loading it still I think it's a east west firebox for longer pieces and my 16"-18" pierced aren't fitting n-s...


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## laxin213 (Nov 29, 2014)

More pics ... First day 3 small break in fires. Second day I loosely filled the firebox and got a 6hr burn in


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## Rickb (Nov 29, 2014)

Looks great!  Glad after all the drama you were able to get it done.


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## laxin213 (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks Rickb! I always say " I'm not on vacation until the plane is in the air ". It was a lot of setbacks, research etc, and with putting a deposit on an insert in September, to finally get it installed was worth the wait.

Funny story came up- installers said " hey a neighbor down the street from you had several feet of the same flue tile that needed to be broken out , we turned down the job" I said hey I know a mason that can do the job - maybe the owner can toss me a wood wick candle for my wife and I'll refer him and get you guys another sale!" Seems like a fair trade to me- the stove shop sells them and the boss likes 'em


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## MadeforMedieval (Nov 30, 2014)

that looks really good with that TV up there.  Congrats.   I just installed the same one with the front face, but black.  Best investment I ever made.


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## cableman (Nov 30, 2014)

Looks great. My buddy had his top facia or cover plate what ever its called cut down a few inches, just enough to cover top brick. Cant remember if he did the sides too.


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## Midway43 (Nov 30, 2014)

I have the same on order except the regular black arch.  Is your surround the standard size or the bigger one?


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## laxin213 (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks for the comments guys! Good to hear there are other new owners! 

have the larger surround

Is everyone going to start cutting their wood longer and loading East - West?


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## edge-of-the-woods (Jan 13, 2015)

laxin213 said:


> Thanks for the comments guys! Good to hear there are other new owners!
> 
> have the larger surround
> 
> Is everyone going to start cutting their wood longer and loading East - West?



How is this stove performing for you this winter?  We got the new big flush Regency (CI2600) and it's not living up to the hype...


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## laxin213 (Jan 13, 2015)

Its really hard for me to objectively say.

1. My first woodburning insert
2. First woodburning insert in this home (2800sf) and room (33'x20') with cathedral ceilings to second floor.
3. I live in Buffalo and we've had huge temperature swings this winter so far

That being said overall I'd rate it like 3.5/5 in my view of performance. If its say 25F-30F outside and I run it all day, with the thermostat set at 60 I can get the house to 68-70. If I run it medium hot, and reload maybe 6 times that day. If I run it on 3 reloads, and have it choked mostly down, maybe 65F. The house has a TON of windows, built in 1985 and the windows are like 6' TALL. Its got to lose major heat there.

As its been this in this extreme cold snap at 10F before wind chills, and down to single digits at night, I burn it all day, medium hot and I haven't moved the thermostat up past 63F where I re-set it to.

So *some operator error*, some limitations of a 3.0CU foot firebox. Also my wood is cut to 16-18" and it really needs to be at like 22". I'm only loading it up so much.

Overall, I'd buy it again


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## BurningBrutus (Jan 13, 2015)

laxin213 said:


> Its really hard for me to objectively say.
> 
> 1. My first woodburning insert
> 2. First woodburning insert in this home (2800sf) and room (33'x20') with cathedral ceilings to second floor.
> ...



where in buffalo are you?  Im in Amherst


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## laxin213 (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm in east aurora


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## johnstra (Jan 14, 2015)

glad you have it up and running, Laxin, and that you're happy with it.  I had an FPX in my old house, but it was before I knew how to burn in an EPA stove.  I slammed so much bad (e.g. wet) wood through that thing in 4 winters trying to keep a big flame going.  I never did get enough heat from it.  My house was at 9000 ft and I had high ceilings, so I just couldn't make it work.

Out of curiosity, how well does the cat work when you're burning properly in cycles.  Loading 6 times a day sounds like a lot to me.  Is that over a 12 hour or 24 hour period.


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## laxin213 (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm still learning I'd say. All my wood is 16-18% but it's also about 17-18" long so I'm not filling the firebox well I need like a 22-23" split. That being said if I try to load it heavy and catch it then turn it down I can do like 4 reloads in 24 hours. Frequently I find myself doing more like 6 reloads- I just can't get enough wood in and I don't jam it in there enough I always have big gaps on the sides 
I'm experimenting with loading techniques it's just my first WB insert and first epa stove and I'm used to how we did it at my grandmas house which seemed like tossing a couple logs on every few hours.


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## jatoxico (Jan 15, 2015)

Laxin that's a pretty install. Took some doing but she's in. IMO you would benefit quite a bit from a block off plate. Even though it's an interior install there's a lot of open space around the box and liner. Take off the face plate and surround, stuff as much roxul as you can as high as you can then add a metal block off. Can be done in two pcs so you don't even have to remove the stove. You will still heat your exposed brick (prob more so) for the slow release over time but I suspect you will get more heat into the room. Probably take a couple hours.


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## CT Burner (Jan 19, 2015)

Re East/West. I haven't thought about going longer. I usually stagger my load by putting the first piece all the way to the left, then next piece all the way to the right, working from back to front. Them for the second layer I reverse and put wood over the open spots. I think the 3-4" of dead space helps the air flow. When I've tried just stacking the wood tight I have a hard time getting a good burn.


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## laxin213 (Jan 19, 2015)

CT Burner said:


> Re East/West. I haven't thought about going longer. I usually stagger my load by putting the first piece all the way to the left, then next piece all the way to the right, working from back to front. Them for the second layer I reverse and put wood over the open spots. I think the 3-4" of dead space helps the air flow. When I've tried just stacking the wood tight I have a hard time getting a good burn.



I was thinking if I had it tight I would do the upside down fire starting method and stack my kindling and small stuff on the very top of the pile and see how it went. 

I will try your method next load though and see how it works for me...


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