# The making of Pinetree Pellet Fuels Maine softwood pellets.. The Mill..



## PinetreePellets (Apr 20, 2015)

Good day everyone. I had posed on a previous thread (see below) a small introduction but wanted to formally start a thread about our wood pellet mill in Mattawamkeag, Maine. If you are reading this for the first time my name is David Kidwell and I am one of of the founders of Pinetree Pellet Fuels. We will be specializing in manufacturing premium softwood wood pellets from locally sourced and cleaned wood chips right here in Maine. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-maine-pellet-mill.142172/

We will be a small scale, 2 tons per hour mill, with two complete 1 ton per mills. We are going this route for redundancy so if one mill goes down we will have another still operational. I have read the above thread posted here on Hearth.com and hope to clear up some confusion or misinformation with my post as we go along the journey to pushing the start button on day 1 of full operation.

I would like to thank Jim (webfish) at Hearth.com for letting us share this journey with all you wood pellet fanatics like myself 

To start off I love my Quadrafire Mt. Vernon stove bought it back in 08', I believe, and had an issues with the heat plate cracking and flaking, but Quadrafire was aware of the issue, was the first year for the Mt Vernon if I remember correctly, and we got a replacement with no issues and no issue with the stove since. At one point we heated a 2,700sqft house with it and never used a drop of oil. Anyway enough about the stove back to the mill.

If you click the link above you can get some info from the local paper in the area who has been covering the mill and the steps as we go along the process. I will say there has been some misinformation in the papers as well, but when quoting a 3rd party sometimes that can happen. Nothing bad, just some dates and numbers were incorrect. No biggie in my book.

There are a few things that will different from our pellet mill then some of the big guys and that I will discuss down the road. What I will clear up now is that we will not be shipping a single pellet from our mill overseas. Made in the USA and we plan on keeping them here. So we can squash that assumption. Also the fact we have a purchase contract to pay 1/2 now and 1/2 one year later is cause lack of cash is also someone reading to much into what they read and not knowing the details of the agreement between the town and Pinetree Pellet Fuels. Always fun to watch people speculate, and I might of thought that to, but lack of cash is not the case with PTPF.

I have never blogged so this first post may seem boring but it is a brief introduction to the making of a wood pellet mill. I will be posting updates and pictures as we move along in the process of building the mill. I will try to keep you up to date as possible and if there is a lot of interest in following the mill setup process then maybe daily updates will be needed. I think the fun part will be interacting with you all and your thoughts, we will have a small lab mill where we will be trying different combinations of biowaste to see what we can get the most heat out of. Will be un.  

Well for now that is about all, check out the link above for some other info i might of missed and I post later tonight with what the inside of our mill looks like now, pre pellet mill.

David


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## boo boo (Apr 20, 2015)

Good luck to you David
When will we get to try your product? what will we be looking at per bag?
May have been answered in your other post if so I missed it.


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## St_Earl (Apr 20, 2015)

i'm closeby. i will test your pellets free of charge. 

seriously though, i'm looking forward to trying your mill's product.
best wishes.


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## Pete Zahria (Apr 20, 2015)

Good luck with your venture, David.
What will you be using for your raw material?
Will you be selling to local dealers only, or both dealers and retail?
Dan


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 20, 2015)

Thank you all for the well wishes, everybody has been extremely supportive of the wood pellet mill.



> Good luck to you David
> When will we get to try your product? what will we be looking at per bag?
> May have been answered in your other post if so I missed it.



We are pushing for Oct 1st to be producing for the 15'-16' winter season. At this time we aren't disclosing price.. more to come 



> i'm closeby. i will test your pellets free of charge.
> 
> seriously though, i'm looking forward to trying your mill's product.
> best wishes.



We will have a lot of QC and test runs to get the pellet we are looking for before any go out the door. Don't want to sell anyone garbage pellets.



> Good luck with your venture, David.
> What will you be using for your raw material?
> Will you be selling to local dealers only, or both dealers and retail?
> Dan



Dan, we will be selling only premium softwood pellets. We will be testing different combinations to determine the highest btu blend/burn. Pine, Hemlock, Spruce, Fir, etc. Our sales model is part of what will make us different so at this time I have to be mum on this part... more to come..

Please everyone understand I want this to be a tour and a journey on how we are planning to set up our wood pellet mill. So please don't take offence if I don't answer specific questions as we are a long way away from hitting the start button and would rather not give an answer then answer improperly. If I quote prices now I could make us look bad if they have to rise for some reason, so some info will be disclosed as we get the process rolling a little further down the line. I hope everyone understands.

David


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 20, 2015)

Pinetree Pellet Fuels future mill floor...


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## maple1 (Apr 21, 2015)

Dang, that's not a bad looking gym floor. My kids would be all over that in a b-ball way.

Good luck.


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## moey (Apr 21, 2015)

Are you going to keep the free throw arches? 

Good luck BTW... Im sure you will do fine..


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## 3650 (Apr 21, 2015)

Yeh that's the ultimate man cave. Too bad its going to get all messed up.


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## boo boo (Apr 21, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> Pinetree Pellet Fuels future mill floor...
> 
> 
> View attachment 157310


You can keep track of the pounds per hour on the score board


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## hossthehermit (Apr 21, 2015)

Looking forward to progress reports ............


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 21, 2015)

> Dang, that's not a bad looking gym floor. My kids would be all over that in a b-ball way.
> 
> Good luck.



Actually a sticky tile floor over concrete, unusual for a bball court in my opinion but i think it was also used as a cafeteria.



> Are you going to keep the free throw arches?
> 
> Good luck BTW... Im sure you will do fine.



We plan on keeping the floor pretty much as you see it. 



> Yeh that's the ultimate man cave. Too bad its going to get all messed up.



I don't like to think of it as messed up but rather re-purposing it for its second life. Building has been empty since 2009.



> You can keep track of the pounds per hour on the score board



And we plan on it, but keeping track of tons 



> Looking forward to progress reports ............



Thank you, we look forward to keeping you all connected and in the loop. Some things will be positive other things we will hit red tape and need to address, it is just part of the process and learning experience. The day I stop learning I might as well throw in the towel and fortunately i don't own one. 

David


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 21, 2015)

Figured you all might think this is cool, was our first CAD layout of 1 line from hammermill to bagging station.


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## Pete Zahria (Apr 21, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> ..I hope everyone understands.
> David



Of course... I think it's pretty good that you are sharing your journey!
We'll be patient... 

Dan


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## boo boo (Apr 21, 2015)

I`m sure your ROI is years to come with all of that equipment and set up cost. I hope the state is giving you guys a tax break on a start up company or at least investing in your interest. They do campaign on job creation.


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## 3650 (Apr 21, 2015)

couple of ounces of Willies' Reserve and several tons of Pinetree Pellets and next winter will be a breeze.


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 22, 2015)

> Of course... I think it's pretty good that you are sharing your journey!
> We'll be patient...
> 
> Dan



And we think its pretty cool people are somewhat interested, i didn't think there would be much interest, but have been surprised with the level of interest




boo boo said:


> I`m sure your ROI is years to come with all of that equipment and set up cost. I hope the state is giving you guys a tax break on a start up company or at least investing in your interest. They do campaign on job creation.



The people that I have personally delt with at the state level have been more then helpful. They are rockstars in my book!!



3650 said:


> couple of ounces of Willies' Reserve and several tons of Pinetree Pellets and next winter will be a breeze.



3650 you got it my friend!! Well not a breeze for us as we are pushing to get up and running before fall and probably no slowdown till next summer (hopefully)


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> Figured you all might think this is cool, was our first CAD layout of 1 line from hammermill to bagging station.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157349


 
Kind of courious as I read about your journey...

What are you going to use for fuel for your dryer, planning on a pellet boiler with HX units, or NG or oil?  Are you going to contract with local wood industries for excess to pelletize or are you going to harvest trees yourselves?  I presume you'll use a commercial ring extruder, that takes some serious electricity to run.....

I do know that when contracting, your feedstock can vary greatly from load to load delivered and that can impact your product quality adversely.

Are you planning on a pellet only operation or briquetting and bio-mass production at some point in the future as well?

Considering the market, yoiu should be instantly profitable.


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## bogieb (Apr 22, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> And we think its pretty cool people are somewhat interested, i didn't think there would be much interest, but have been surprised with the level of interest



Hey, us pellet heads are interested in just about anything that will help us feed our stoves while fostering competition, which helps keep our costs down. Hey, and in the future maybe you can share some of what some of the causes of pellet variation between batches / years is. Helps us understand something that is very frustrating to me (nothing like buying several tons of a brand that you had good luck with last year only to find it is crap for you this year while other "less-than-premium" pellets run fine). And maybe, just maybe, some of our feedback can help you along the way.


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 22, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Kind of courious as I read about your journey...
> 
> What are you going to use for fuel for your dryer, planning on a pellet boiler with HX units, or NG or oil?  Are you going to contract with local wood industries for excess to pelletize or are you going to harvest trees yourselves?  I presume you'll use a commercial ring extruder, that takes some serious electricity to run.....
> 
> ...



Some good questions Flip .  We are making softwood pellets from sourced chips/sawdust from a supplier just 8 miles up the road from us and they have agreed to an annual contract based on our needs, so our product should be consistent from day to day and truckload to truckload. We have no intentions to produce biobricks at this time and probably won't unless we feel the market calls for them. Commercial everything my friend, can't produce on a commercial level with a flat die setup, not for wood anyway. 

Though we are making softwood pellets we will be burning biomass hardwood in our boilers as it is cheaper then clean softwood, i know odd but its more cost effective to do it this way.

LOL I can only wish we are instantly profitable, will take some time, but we are a small operation with much more control over our finished product so hopefully our customers return year after year. 

David


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 22, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Hey, us pellet heads are interested in just about anything that will help us feed our stoves while fostering competition, which helps keep our costs down. Hey, and in the future maybe you can share some of what some of the causes of pellet variation between batches / years is. Helps us understand something that is very frustrating to me (nothing like buying several tons of a brand that you had good luck with last year only to find it is crap for you this year while other "less-than-premium" pellets run fine). And maybe, just maybe, some of our feedback can help you along the way.



Bogie I can't speak for other mills, but as long as you are sourcing the same raw material and you keep your process the same from year to year the pellets should remain the same. Just like baking a cookies, if you added an extra egg, or left them in a 2mins longer then normal they will be different then the last batch. If you pelletize material at 10% MC when you usually process it at 12 or 13% you may end up with a pellet that is not of the same quality.

ANY and ALL feedback from you all will be taken seriously as you are the ultimately the end consumer. A good business listens to their customers feedback and improves or makes changes as needed based on this feedback.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 22, 2015)

You'll do fine with consistency and you will have dedicated customers up that way, if this year was any indication of supply versus demand.  Good luck, or should I say no luck needed, just consistent product and availability.


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 22, 2015)

side view of the mill.. if there are any question let me know i'd be glad to identify a certain piece of equipment... the pellet mill itself is towards the white hopper on top and red cover


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## chken (Apr 22, 2015)

As you know, dust can be explosive, so keep it clean!


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## DDJR (Apr 23, 2015)

Will your pellets be available in western Massachusetts?


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## DMKNLD (Apr 23, 2015)

boo boo said:


> I`m sure your ROI is years to come with all of that equipment and set up cost. I hope the state is giving you guys a tax break on a start up company or at least investing in your interest. They do campaign on job creation.



That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.

But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to walk away with $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, after moth-balling the paper mill they were supposedly resurrecting, with zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.

I would hope there are other existing funding resources to help PineTree Pellets get up and running, but I'm guessing that after losing 16 million bucks in taxpayer funding due to shady cigar smoke-filled backroom investment deals, the state will be leery of even any new legitimate mill related investment support legislation.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/04/19/payday-at-the-mill/


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 23, 2015)

chken said:


> As you know, dust can be explosive, so keep it clean!



That is priority #1, a clean house. 



DDJR said:


> Will your pellets be available in western Massachusetts?



Hey JR, being a new mill, and a small one at that, we may not be in Mass our first year. It really is to early to say at this point. Stay posted!


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 24, 2015)

DMKNLD said:


> That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.
> 
> But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to make $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, while we still have foreclosed paper mills and zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.
> 
> ...



Wow that is a crazy read, I had never read that or heard of the New Market Investment program, probably doesn't exist anymore would be my guess. To followup on your post, no we don't get direct financial support from the State of Maine, not like your post anyways. Maine does have some good tax incentives for manufacturing but nowhere near a 39% investment guarantee. No cash incentives, and honestly I didn't expect any, it would be nice the state wanted to help out (hint hint State of Maine ) but we are going though normal channels for financing as there is no other option in Maine.

David


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 24, 2015)

Buying strategies seem to be a little different this year then in previous years, I am curious when people plan to purchase pellets. I am going to post a poll as I see a trend for earlier buying then in years past. The poll is at the link below.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-your-pellets-for-next-heating-season.143536/

David


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## DMKNLD (Apr 24, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> _No cash incentives_, and honestly I didn't expect any,_ it would be nice the state wanted to help out_ (hint hint State of Maine ) but we are going though normal channels for financing as there is _no other option in Maine_



Hey David,

Your post poignantly addresses the polarization of the current "matches and gasoline" political and economic climate of Maine. For both sides of the political spectrum, it seems like it's more about scorched earth political ideology and class warfare fire breathing than it is about doing what's best economically for our State.

I guess the State's recently adopted but largely lip-serviced motto of "Open for Business" applies if you're an Armani suited lawyer or K-street lobbyist representing an out-of-state investment firm, that somehow is allowed to laugh all the way to the bank with $16 million dollars in taxpayer money. Apparently the inability to re-coup those losses or redirect that money to other legitimate economic development efforts is regarded as just collateral damage in the "cost of doing business" for the state.

But for a small business entrepreneur like you, willing to put your blood sweat and tears into an up-start alternative / renewable fuel production mill, who could use just 1% of that 16 million and return allot more value to the state for the investment, instead of being *open for business* it's more like, "well, good luck...." , "times are tough for everybody....", "maybe we can help you after we repeal the XYZ tax....", blah, blah, blah.

I'll end my political rant David, and instead wish you Godspeed and best of luck and success in your business *odyssey* ahead !  Know that I feel I speak for everybody on this forum, and especially all the fellow Maine-ahs on here, that we are all behind you 100% in your efforts.

Regards,  Dennis


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## chken (Apr 24, 2015)

DMKNLD said:


> That's what one would think, but too often in our state it seems crony capitalism trumps small business entrepreneurial-ship. Projects like the PineTree Pellets Mill should be able to get financial support from state programs like the Maine New Markets Capital Investment program, which apparently was modeled after a Federal New Markets Tax program.
> 
> But it appears that restrictions on what companies these business development loans and tax breaks could go to were written into the ME legislation by the same lawyers and lobbyists whose investment firm stands to make $16 million dollars of taxpayer money that funded the program, while we still have foreclosed paper mills and zero benefit to the state or the towns who are most impacted by the mill closures.
> 
> ...


Pathetic. The state should refuse to pay, and force the shysters to sue for their credits. Even if Maine taxpayers have to pay, I want the shysters in NH and Louisiana shamed publicly, not to mention the Maine lawmakers responsible for putting in a program with poor oversight. How can you offer tax credits to someone with no tax obligation, and then offer payment out of the general fund without someone realizing that was an opportunity for a professional scam. A sham transaction shouldn't hold up in court.


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## DMKNLD (Apr 25, 2015)

chken said:


> How can you offer tax credits to someone with no tax obligation, and then offer payment out of the general fund without someone realizing that was an opportunity for a professional scam.



With so much flame throwing / scorched earth political rhetoric going on from both sides of the political aisle now in Augusta, no surprise that this is the result. When the two other investment firms pulled their 30 million out of the deal and broke off with Cate Street Capital, that should have been the first clue. Follow the campaign donation money trail, and no doubt the trail of crumbs from CSC lead back to many of the legislators most influential in drafting and passing the New Market legislation.

So it's not surprising now that the press has taken this and run with it, just how much the Maine legislators with their finger prints on this, like cockroaches scurrying in the light of day, are scrambling to distance themselves and deflect responsibility from this Cate Street Capital ponzi scheme.

Plenty of blame to go around - the D's and R's on the committee that drafted and approved the New Market legislation, the Finance Authority of Maine that recommended it, and our fiscally polarizing / micro-managing / self-proclaimed 'buck stops on my desk' (until it doesn't, apparently) Governor.


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## boo boo (Apr 25, 2015)

And now back to the building of a new pellet mill


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## St_Earl (Apr 25, 2015)

it's somewhat related in as much as the firm alluded to was operating in this same area.
in that regard, a mention makes sense, as long as is doesn't derail this fine thread.
but yes, the new pellet mill is more pleasant and much more interesting of a topic. 
besides being the actual thread subject.


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## DOLLARBILL (Apr 25, 2015)

Good Luck to your new venture!  i welcome a start up that will feed the Maine ecomony and produce a quality product! ! Dave I live just south of Augusta will it be possible to come up and see your operation this summer makes for a great bike ride ! also will  you be selling direct to the public ? Id love to say Im buying from a local source if the product is 5 star ! Again good luck !


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 25, 2015)

DOLLARBILL said:


> Good Luck to your new venture!  i welcome a start up that will feed the Maine ecomony and produce a quality product! ! Dave I live just south of Augusta will it be possible to come up and see your operation this summer makes for a great bike ride ! also will  you be selling direct to the public ? Id love to say Im buying from a local source if the product is 5 star ! Again good luck !



Thanks DOLLARBILL!!  As far as coming up I generally don't like to put the chicken before the egg but a buddy who introduced me to Hearth.com made a suggestion that I have an open house of sorts for the folks here on Hearth. I think it is a fantastic idea and once we get closer to a complete mill and have all the tweaks worked out I would love to have any and everyone who would be interested in checking out the mill come by. I will need to run it by Jim (Hearth.com owner) and see if I can't fly him out to as i think that would complete the circle. 

Pinetree Pellet Fuels will be a direct to consumer mill as much as possible. Our goal is to stay small so we can have personal relationships with our customers and any concerns they might have. If someone is short on cash for a week and needs a few bags to get them through the week till payday we want to be there to help spot them till payday. That is what Mainers do. 

Story behind our business philosophy.  
We grew up poor and my (single) mom had her car breakdown and she didn't have the money to repair it and a local auto repair shop offered to fix her car and said to just make payments when she could. I will never forget that moment as my mom broke down in tears and 20 years later my respect for this repair shop still continues for that one simple gesture.

That is how we plan on running Pinetree Pellet Fuels, will help the little guy before we help fatten the big box stores pockets. 

David


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 25, 2015)

My very first pellet mill that started my pellet mill dreams, got this in 2008. Its a flat die mill, not practical for commercial production, but figured i'd drag it out and take a pic. These mills are not ment for wood, but was fun to play with and test different raw materials. Weirdest thing we put through it, cow dung


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## Pete Zahria (Apr 25, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> My very first pellet mill that started my pellet mill dreams,



VERY high tech 

Dan


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 25, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> VERY high tech
> 
> Dan



and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct   But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol


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## boo boo (Apr 25, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> Weirdest thing we put through it, cow dung


What were the BTU`s with that test
Or was that BT Pews


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 25, 2015)

boo boo said:


> What were the BTU`s with that test
> Or was that BT Pews



The smell wasn't terrible, not that i'd recommend it. We threw them in the fire pit and they burned, wasn't brave enough to try them in my Mt Vernon


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## Pete Zahria (Apr 25, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct   But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol



I think I would have it someplace in your factory, where people could see it..  hang a sign on it.... "Backup Machine"...

Dan


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## bogieb (Apr 25, 2015)

Hey, bison dung (or other herbivore dung, depending on the region/continent), has been used throughout time as a source of heat for those living on the plains/steppes since they didn't have much wood - and what was there was more valuable for other uses. Heck, I would try it in the Harman if it was pelletized.


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## SidecarFlip (Apr 27, 2015)

Anything will burn if you get it hot enough....


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## batchman (Apr 27, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> I think I would have it someplace in your factory, where people could see it..  hang a sign on it.... "Backup Machine"



Or perhaps, "Don't try this at home, kids!"

Best of luck to you, David, from a guy who keeps eying the endless supply of leaves and acorns each fall...
- Jeff


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## bogieb (Apr 28, 2015)

batchman said:


> Or perhaps, "Don't try this at home, kids!"
> 
> Best of luck to you, David, from a guy who keeps eying the endless supply of leaves and acorns each fall...
> - Jeff



Compressed leaves, that would be great. Or even having someone take the endless supply of willow limbs that fall off the tree in my yard everyday. Of course getting that wood dry enough would be a real bear.


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## kofkorn (Apr 28, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> and by high tech you mean POS, you are correct   But I will always keep it, wonder if i can frame it and put it on the wall.. lol




It looks like you could make it into an nice lamp for you office


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 30, 2015)

kofkorn said:


> It looks like you could make it into an nice lamp for you office



Thing must weigh 150lbs.. heck of a lamp..lol.. Think I'll keep her in our front office/customer area in glass, behind a laser beam detection system with glass shatter acoustic alarm, was gonna go with 2 armed body guard but figured that was overkill


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## PinetreePellets (Apr 30, 2015)

So went to a great seminar on Tuesday in Raymond about all the different types of "alternative" fuels, power sources, etc. Anyone there from this forum by chance?

Would LOVE to make our mill 100% carbon neutral or as close to it as possible. Would be a big task but would benefit both the end consumer and the environment. It is not something we are focusing on now, but see adding it to our facility down the road either with PV or Wind power to offset our consumption to make the pellets. Imagine a LEED certified biofuel facility, now how cool would that be.


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## bogieb (Apr 30, 2015)

I'd love to go with solar or wind power for my house, but it isn't worth it. So far, even with the tough winter we had, and running 2 pellet stoves, my electric tops was $98. I'm the only one here and I don't use air conditioning (don't even know if it works in this house), so it is 45-55 in summer. Stove, HW heater and FHW boiler are propane (and I use ~150 in propane per year).

So, even if I used $100/month in electricity (that is a stretch) and I put in a windmill or solar system at $15,000 (conservative estimate), then it would take me 12.5 years to get a payback. And that is IF I never had to put a dime into the system (doubtful) and never had to buy electricity for any reason.


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## batchman (May 1, 2015)

For decades we south-of-the-border folks were incredulous of what PSNH folks paid for power - about triple the cost of Mass Electric.  That has now reversed completely.

So for me that ROI would be closer to 4 years with the same unlikely (as you indicate) assumptions.

Best,
- Jeff


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## bogieb (May 1, 2015)

My most current bill (received 2 days ago) is for 85.81 for 433 kilowatts used - just under 20 cents per kilowatt. I just don't use much electricity and I have a small house - my highest electric usage was last December at 563 (Christmas lights and lots of power tools in use).

However, I don't know what you are paying, so it could be you pay less per unit - just use more, or pay more per unit than I do.


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## PinetreePellets (May 3, 2015)

So I haven't posted any updates lately as not much has been going on with the mill. We did get a quote for fire suppression and my jaw hit the floor. We knew it was going to be an expense we had to do for safety and for insurance but we estimated less for the system. It was just our first quote and you never just get one quote 

I would ask if anyone in the forum has a retaliative/friend or someone who may be in the fire suppression business please hit me up in my inbox here on Hearth. We would rather give our business to someone who is a smaller outfit rather then the big guys we got our first quote from. Plus if we can help someone on the Hearth.com board it just makes sense to us to come here and ask rather then pick someone online. I have gotten such a warm welcome here that I almost feel like you all are part of the process, where I was just going to post about our progress, your input and feedback has been extremely helpful, plus I hope to meet as many of you at the Hearth.com open house (I do still need to talk to Jim about promoting it) as possible. Think for all us Pelliters (did i just make up a word?) it would be a fun chance to put a face with the avatar we have been speaking to. Plus hopefully Jim will let us fly him out to the mill so you can all meet the guy responsible for Hearth.com.

will post some other CAD stuff later today. Everyone enjoy the beautiful Sunday that it is!!

David


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## PinetreePellets (May 3, 2015)

And cause this video ALWAYS makes me laugh (love the dog). Hope it makes you all smile


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## PinetreePellets (May 3, 2015)

Ant she pretty


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## PinetreePellets (May 3, 2015)

the above CAD is not a mirror image but a redundant mill setup. If we need to service one line the other line can continue to run. Redundancy is something you learn in 13 years of IT. An idle mill is just a building with pretty equipment you can hang your wet laundry on


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## BrotherBart (May 3, 2015)

Time to turn that ink into iron.


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## Wildo (May 3, 2015)

CAD what CAD?  I don't see any  chainsaws in that post!


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## PinetreePellets (May 4, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Time to turn that ink into iron.



Soon.. but not soon enough


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## Pete Zahria (May 4, 2015)

Where does the "shine" come out??

Dan


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## MadMax31 (May 4, 2015)

Redundancy.... Something my customers have never heard of.

These knuckle-heads claim every hour of down-time equates to 50,000 out the window. Perhaps a second chiller is in order?


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 6, 2015)

Good evening everyone. Need to catch up on my post here on Hearth. We have been very busy trying to get everything lined up for closing on the mill building at the end of this month which we are very excited about. I told Jim(webfish) that I would talk about the ups and downs of putting together a wood pellet mill and let me tell you it hasn't been all cupcakes and sprinkles. In fact until about two weeks ago we were going to delay, not by our choice, the start of Pinetree Pellet Fuels wood pellet mill. As with any new startup we have some funds to establish the mill, and have brought on an investor to make up the difference. It has had its ups and downs for sure!! We are continuing to plug away at all final details with people that make more money in 4 hours then i do in a week. I new I shoulda been a lawyer 

The reality is even if i was making the big bucks as an attorney it i wouldn't be doing something I truly love, believe in and have a passion for. The mill is!!

So not a lot to report on as we close June 30th on the mill, and I won't feel the reality of it until I have the keys in hand and deed in our name. We presented before the town our mill proposal and a gentleman in the audience suggested that if we can to put the town of Mattawamkeag on our bags. So we brainstormed over a few whoppers and decided that Mattawamkeag Wood Pellets is just to difficult to say and to say to folks who don't know the correct way to say it. We did decide to drop the Pinetree Wood Pellets brand (for now) and have our companies first line of 100% Premium spruce pellets named "Two Rivers Wood Pellets". Our company name will remain Pinetree Pellet Fuels however. 

I have a quiz, first person to reply with how we come up with the name will get a free ton of pellets (you pick up at our mill in Mattawamkeag)!! Please post your answers in the thread.

My next post will have our website live and would love some comments on it!

Sorry for not being as attentive as I wanted to be on the site, but the whole project is a massive effort and a million moving puzzle pieces and we had lost a piece of that puzzle for a moment.

Hope all of you are are getting some warm weather!! if not turn up those pellet stoves. lol, I should be in marketing. Anyways I do hope you all are enjoying spring and more post to come.

Take care
David


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 6, 2015)

Because you are operating out of the Pine tree state?


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## sootsucka (Jun 6, 2015)

Because it borders the two rivers on the site


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## notshubby (Jun 6, 2015)

your where the mattawamkeab  and Penobscot rivers meet?


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> Because you are operating out of the Pine tree state?



Yes, this is how we came up with the company name years ago.



sootsucka said:


> Because it borders the two rivers on the site



Not quite, Shubby nailed it.



notshubby said:


> your where the mattawamkeab  and Penobscot rivers meet?




Shubby is good at using Wikipedia (just kidding). Actually the Indian meaning Mattawamkeag translated means "where to rivers meet". It is also the towns slogan.







So to be fair I didn't specify the company name or our pellet brand name so Pete and Shubby, when we are up and running if you wanna swing by we will load a ton for ya.

That is where we came up with the brand name for our softwood pellets, paying honor to the town and the history of the name Mattawamkeag. That's it for PTPF History 101 for today, I expect a 378 page report on my desk by morning 

Take care everyone

David


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## johneh (Jun 7, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> I expect a 378 page report on my desk by morning


As my Better Half  would say
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT


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## sootsucka (Jun 7, 2015)

That's funny I thought I said the same thing as shubby just sooner


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

sootsucka said:


> That's funny I thought I said the same thing as shubby just sooner



Our site doesn't border the two rivers the town does. guess i'm splitting hairs. DM me your info Soot


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

so a teaser look at our website..


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## bogieb (Jun 8, 2015)

All I get when I go to your site is an index that takes me nowhere (and no permissions either). Was that the tease?


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## notshubby (Jun 8, 2015)

sootsucka said:


> That's funny I thought I said the same thing as shubby just sooner



hes right he got it first while I just looked up the names of the rivers. he can have the win. it would cost me as much as they are worth to drive to maine to pick them up. well that and no offence to your product but they don't burn worth a darn in my woodstove.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 8, 2015)

bogieb said:


> All I get when I go to your site is an index that takes me nowhere (and no permissions either). Was that the tease?




The small img i cropped from the homepage, that's the teaser..

If the site was up i wouldn't need a teaser


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## bogieb (Jun 8, 2015)

Ahh, Sorry, I'm slow on Mondays


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## JP11 (Jun 8, 2015)

If you're still looking for a sprinkler contractor.. Guy I went to school with for 12 years took over his dad's business.  High Tech Fire Protection.  I'm not sure technically if they are in Poland or Mechanic Falls.  Richard Smith is the guy I know.  Might be worth a phone call.  

I don't burn pellets, but I love the idea that you're going to be a local business.  People should be happy to pay your price.  I love the idea of my money staying local.  Then you keep your money banging around in your town.  Guy that works at the mill buys a car from the local dealer. That guy goes to lunch at the diner.  On and on.

Best of luck to you.

JP


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 8, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Ahh, Sorry, I'm slow on Mondays



All good Bogie, I am slow any day ending in Y


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 8, 2015)

JP11 said:


> If you're still looking for a sprinkler contractor.. Guy I went to school with for 12 years took over his dad's business.  High Tech Fire Protection.  I'm not sure technically if they are in Poland or Mechanic Falls.  Richard Smith is the guy I know.  Might be worth a phone call.
> 
> I don't burn pellets, but I love the idea that you're going to be a local business.  People should be happy to pay your price.  I love the idea of my money staying local.  Then you keep your money banging around in your town.  Guy that works at the mill buys a car from the local dealer. That guy goes to lunch at the diner.  On and on.
> 
> ...



TY JP for the recommendation, the second i have gotten from Hearth forum, love this place 

Will def give them a jingle


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## SidecarFlip (Jun 9, 2015)

If I wasn't almost 1000 miles from you, I'd bring up a tractor trailer and bring back 24 ton or so.*  I like to support American owned and operated businesses*.

I believe you'll do just fine in yur new enterprise.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 9, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> If I wasn't almost 1000 miles from you, I'd bring up a tractor trailer and bring back 24 ton or so.*  I like to support American owned and operated businesses*.
> 
> I believe you'll do just fine in yur new enterprise.



I can fit a few bag in the trunk of my car!! ROADTRIP..


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## boo boo (Jun 14, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> Ant she pretty
> 
> View attachment 157738


Are you going to use auto stacking of the bags or man handle? safety first


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## SidecarFlip (Jun 15, 2015)

Safety first or expense first....

I'd be manually stacking when starting out, auto pallet stackers are an unneeded expense IMO.

When I was younger, I stacked 50 pound bags of seed corn on pallets for a seed operation down the road, 40 bags to the pallet, 20 pallets a day.  Thats great exercise and a great way to consume beer on a hot day.

Builds character....
Develops a hard body....
Attracts the ladies....
Makes you drink more beer......


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 16, 2015)

boo boo said:


> Are you going to use auto stacking of the bags or man handle? safety first



Hey Boo. We will have employees stacking manually. To address your question we will have a pallet lift which is hydraulically controlled to the workers most comfortable position by the worker. We are only talking 1 bag every min, we will be required to conform to OSHA standards to make sure our workers don't injure themselves.

We decided to go this route because a robot doesn't have mouths to feed and this helped us make the decision. It is also more cost effective to not have an automatic stacker, not saying we wont down the road if we find our workers are getting burned out, but for now its more cost effective and we can employ folks who need work.


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## Jags (Jun 16, 2015)

We use something like this for lifting buckets and bags.  Not horrible cost wise.  It might be something to look into...
http://www.vacuumlifter.eu/
They can be mounted with a simple swing crane setup.  Lifts 175# if I remember correctly. They have different weight capacities.

Just like this:


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## ScotL (Jun 17, 2015)

These work pretty well.
http://bishamon.com/ezloader.html


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 17, 2015)

ScotL said:


> These work pretty well.
> http://bishamon.com/ezloader.html



yes I have seen this on Global Industries. I like the vac handler, gotta price some out.


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## PinetreePellets (Jul 1, 2015)




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## johneh (Jul 1, 2015)

So now the hard part starts  Good Luck hope everything falls into place


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## Mpodesta (Jul 1, 2015)

Awesome!


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## JP11 (Jul 1, 2015)

Congrats to you.  Hit the ground running and don't slow down!


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## PinetreePellets (Jul 2, 2015)

Thank you all for the well wishes. Like John said "now the hard part starts", but I am elated that my dream of someday owning a pellet mill is coming to fruition and that day when i can hit the start button is still a few months away but withing reach. I have been pretty busy just getting to this point, securing contracts, building purchase, that I haven't been able to post as much as I wanted but I wanted to be the first to let you all know that I plan on setting up a webcam in the mill during renovation to show the progress live. You will be able to see the mill assembly as it is taking place (and some frustration and possibly a few swear words). I am having internet installed soon and the webcams will be up as well, as soon as they are you will get a link.

Sorry for the quick post but I hope you all have a safe and relaxing weekend celebrating the 4th!!


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## ScotL (Jul 2, 2015)

My best advice for you is to design with room for expansion in mind. Don't let the engineers design to minimum specs for your desired capacity.

You'll need spare room in the PLC and cable trays and MCC rooms as well as options to increase throughput later on - probably in a couple years.

Discovering and eliminating bottlenecks early on will help a lot.


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## St_Earl (Jul 2, 2015)

i bicycled through mattawamkeag a week or so ago. looked cursorily around but didn't see the building.
did 49 miles that day.


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## smwilliamson (Jul 3, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> Hey Boo. We will have employees stacking manually. To address your question we will have a pallet lift which is hydraulically controlled to the workers most comfortable position by the worker. We are only talking 1 bag every min, we will be required to conform to OSHA standards to make sure our workers don't injure themselves.
> 
> We decided to go this route because a robot doesn't have mouths to feed and this helped us make the decision. It is also more cost effective to not have an automatic stacker, not saying we wont down the road if we find our workers are getting burned out, but for now its more cost effective and we can employ folks who need work.


The auto stacker will eventually allow you to hire more people doing other tasks.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 3, 2015)

Rock and roll.


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## PinetreePellets (Jul 6, 2015)

St_Earl said:


> i bicycled through mattawamkeag a week or so ago. looked cursorily around but didn't see the building.
> did 49 miles that day.



Graham Ln.. All the way to the end (before you hit the river)


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## PinetreePellets (Jul 9, 2015)

Was just south of Bangor at a big box store and saw these. Price seemed high for offseason.


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## PinetreePellets (Jul 9, 2015)

Hello all. Figured I'd throw this out to anyone in my area (Maine). I am in need of a wheel loader and forklift. They don't need to be pretty or perfect just be able to operate. 

If you are in the area and have one sitting around or know of someone who may have one please send me a PM and we can chat. 

Also looking for a non roadworthy walking floor or bottom dump trailer. Hit me up if you got one. 

Thanks guys 
David


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## NateB (Jul 9, 2015)

We used these time lapse cameras, and they worked very well. You can also put a motion activated sensor on them if needed.  Web cams are great, but the time lapse I found much more interesting.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/c.../N/3780644652?origSearch=construction cameras


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## PinetreePellets (Aug 20, 2015)

NateB said:


> We used these time lapse cameras, and they worked very well. You can also put a motion activated sensor on them if needed.  Web cams are great, but the time lapse I found much more interesting.
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/construction-cameras/ci/28014/N/3780644652?origSearch=construction cameras



I have security motion sensors and cameras but will get one for the mill once we are at the stage where exciting things are happening. 

I just wanted to give you all an update on the mill as it has been a while and I have been busy. A Lot of the stuff is backend boring (but needs to be done) stuff. Getting accounts established, bag design and a few other surprises. Timeline was Octoberish for getting the equipment then a month or two for tweaks and mod and construction but as I kinda expected "perfect world" times just don't happen. As mill equipment is being manufactured I have been picking up some fun toys, forklift, bucket loader, pallet wrapper, and office swag like desks, printers, chairs, etc. I have networked up a pretty decent remote security system as well as VPN, cloud backup and website design.

Our website is up, not for orders, but for an idea of what it will eventually look like and for folks to contact us for info or email us with questions.

Oil prices have been dropping and will continue i feel for a while but that is not a deterrent but rather motivation for me to find the best quality material at the lowest prices to help keep prices down and the price of our pellets inline with oil. I have some non conventional methods I plan on utilizing to help keep my prices down and in turn the end consumer.

As far as Mattawamkeag, I've had a great reception intown. I am still the "outsider" so will take folks some time to get to know me and used to the mill. Also last month I meet with the president of Cornith Wood Pellets, they have a slick operation over there. We sat down and talked shop for an hour or so and he had some damn good advice for me in certain aspects of the mill operation. Cornith is about 10x's the size i will ever be but I never started out with intentions to become a huge operation, but Cornith is doing it right and are in a totally different league then this little mill i am starting, but I am ok with that.

A few other things up my sleeve that I will discuss in a future post. I did start Twitter, FB and G+ accounts for Pinetree Pellet Fuels. So I wont post the links here but can find them on our website if ya wanna keep up with the day to day (TBH i post more here then the 3 combine, lol).

Well guess that's it for now. Here is a picture of my pallet wrapper, great machine. Highly recommend Predator SS wrappers


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## JP11 (Aug 20, 2015)

Love the fact that the 'big guy' doesn't see you as competition, but offered good advice.  That's class right there.

JP


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 20, 2015)

Nice machine, David!


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 20, 2015)

Same machine our company uses to shrink wrap boxes of parts.  I think a couple employees wrapped themselves horsing around too.

Again, best of luck.  With propane being in the mid 80 cent range here, this will be a non burn year for me.  I just filled 3 bottles, 1500 gallons, enough for the winter


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## PinetreePellets (Aug 21, 2015)

JP11 said:


> Love the fact that the 'big guy' doesn't see you as competition, but offered good advice.  That's class right there.
> 
> JP



He was a great guy and knows I am not really competition for them. There is no doubt the new owners are a class act and run a slick operation over there. For them to thow this little guy a bone and offer helpful suggestions without me having to dig for info shows that even in 2015 there are still Mainers helping Mainers.


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## PinetreePellets (Aug 21, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> Nice machine, David!



Asked the wife if she wanted to help me test it. She said how can I help, I said just hold this plastic while you spin around... Then I left her and went for a beer with the guys


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## PinetreePellets (Sep 12, 2015)

Hey everyone. I know its been a while but lots of things, good and bad going on. The first thing is I don't know that we will be p before this heating season, possibly mid heating season, but not Oct or Nov like I wanted to be. One thing I have learned in starting a wood pellet mill, and probably any business in general, everything takes twice the amount of time you initially hoped for. So if someone tells you 2 weeks, expect a month, and there is nothing I can do about it (sigh). So waiting on line extension for power boost to the mill to get it juiced up, though I will say EmeraMaine has been amazing and easy to work with. 

We did start a facebook, twitter and linkedIn pages so as things start to kick in to second here I will continue to post here as well as those pages. 

Not sure I have formally thanked everyone on the forum here for all you well wishes and positive energy. This has been a heck of a ride, and honestly you all have been such a positive PUSH for me. I never forget where I came from and those who were there.

David


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## Wildo (Sep 12, 2015)

Good things come to those that are forced to wait...... longer...   Thanks again for the updates.


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## bogieb (Sep 12, 2015)

Thanks for the update - I was wondering how things were going. Unfortunately we tend to believe things will happen in the least amount of time it possibly could - and a lot of times our worst case scenarios tend to be on the optimistic side


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## St_Earl (Sep 15, 2015)

I biked through Mattawamkaeg again this summer. Though on the Woodville rd./157 loop, i somehow managed the achievement of having a headwind and or  crosswind the whole 60 (made it all the way home this time) miles, so i only looked off toward where your mill is.

If all works out and you are up and running by spring, i plan on getting my 6 tons from you for next season.
As i don't have a truck, i'm hopeful your offer of delivery is still on the table. we can talk delivery cost on that when the time comes.
I'm not too picky on my pellets. The MWP blend has served me *very* well. price per ton is my biggest concern as long as they burn without major issues.
I tried more expensive pellets, and for me and my stove, there simply isn't enough "extra" heat in them to be worth the extra dollars.

I like supporting Steve at SIB, but even more so i want to do what i can to help your venture succeed.
I really like the thought of having pellets being produced only a few miles from me.


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## Wildo (Nov 25, 2015)

How is the PTP biz going? 

Busy enough we haven't had an update in 2 months?


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## UMainah (Nov 28, 2015)

From the local paper

http://bangordailynews.com/2015/11/...lated-for-former-mattawamkeag-school-delayed/


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## bogieb (Nov 28, 2015)

Thank for the link to the article. At first I thought that the bit about all town accounts (water, sewer etc.) being current and paid was irrelevant. But, upon reflection, it told me that the plans are indeed moving forward, if slower than hoped/anticipated. If there were thoughts of scrapping the project, the bills most likely wouldn't be paid.


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## PinetreePellets (Feb 24, 2016)

Hey everyone just wanted to post a quick update...
More to come...


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## St_Earl (Mar 13, 2016)

PinetreePellets said:


> Hey everyone just wanted to post a quick update...
> More to come...



i'm holding off on my normal april buy date from where i have gotten pellets up till now.
hopefully i'll be burning some pinetree pellets next winter.


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## moey (Aug 20, 2017)

Did Pinetree Pellets ever get going? Their website is still around but I don't see any information saying they actually made and sold some pellets. Hope the news is good.


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## moey (Sep 1, 2017)

Ill bump this once hoping someone knows something and missed this thread.


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