# How to cut a large diameter tree on the ground with a 16" bar



## muncybob

Looks like I may be bucking a large oak that is laying on the ground. It's got to be at least 30"-36" diameter and probably 30' long....how do I approach this project? All I have is my saw, a couple small plastic wedges and a pry/crow bar. In my feable mind I'm thinking cut as far as I can from the top and hope I can roll it over to cut from the other side.....but, I'm fearful of the saw being pinched.
Any better approach to this? Or should I pass on this since my bar is only 16"?


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## gzecc

Its all relative. Your experience, creativity, saw power, etc. I could and would do it with the right saw (if that was all I had). However I know quite a few people that should not attempt it.
A man needs to know his limitations.


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## Adios Pantalones

Don't cut the first rounds out of the base.  Cut what you can handle first as the trunk is thinner up top and it may be easier to handle reduced weight.

a 4" round piece in the middle after cutting will be a serious pain to break.  Get a buddy with a bigger saw to help out on those cuts.


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## Got Wood

I did a similar sized oak last year with a 16" bar.  I'm no expert but what I did was make the top cuts first, going as deep as I could - keeping a close eye on the cut pulling out when I saw it starting to pinch. Worked one side of the log, then the other. Once that was done I used a crow bar at a point that I could get the end off the ground to cut off a section. Once the section was off I rolled it over to finish the cuts. Repeated until I finished the tree. Getting the crow bar in place and lifting the trunk was work - once it was off the ground I slid something (like a rock, branch or split) under it. It usually took a few steps to get it off far enough. Real hard to do working alone, having a partner would make it much easier.
Good luck


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## Backwoods Savage

Bob, you fear a pinched bar. As you are cutting, keep an eye on the kerf. If that space shows the slightest sign of starting to come together, jerk the saw out quickly. But I would simply cut as much as possible all the way on the log and then roll that sucker over to finish the cuts. A 16" bar should be okay for that size log. Rolling though might require a cant hook, which most everyone should own. They are a very handy tool.


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## Adios Pantalones

A floor jack (placed on plywood before you start bucking) or pinch point bar are nice to have for the bigguns.

Planning so that the tree balances with the trunk off the ground when possible is the best.  Then you slice off rounds that fall rather than having to lift/roll it.


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## CJRages

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> Don't cut the first rounds out of the base.  Cut what you can handle first as the trunk is thinner up top and it may be easier to handle reduced weight.
> 
> a 4" round piece in the middle after cutting will be a serious pain to break.  Get a buddy with a bigger saw to help out on those cuts.



I am trying to imagine cutting something 36" with a 16" bar. Like AP said there would be at least 4" (36"-(16"x2)) in the middle that you would not be able to reach. However, if you were able to cut the top of the log, then roll over and cut the other side, then you would need to cut a wedge out of the log at a min. of 4" deep to allow your saw blade into the middle and finish the cut. Try to be accurate with those initial cuts, it might be difficult to line them up so you end the same place you began. 

Maybe the middle of the tree is hollow/rotten? Then it would be no problem.


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## Danno77

BTDT. 

1. Get an old chain that you aren't afraid to send into the dirt.
2. Disclaimer that this requires cutting straight down through a log, that means that you are gonna need to be careful how you approach the log, because if you don't use the right technique you are gonna hit the log with the tip of your saw as you begin the cut. refer to the picture below for how to START the cut safely.
3. first step is to break the log into smaller manageable pieces. this could be 3 10ft pieces, or it may be 5 or 6 pieces. when possible, cut through points that are less than 32" so it doesn't waste wood.
4. refer to picture to see that you can use a smaller bar to get through a large log. pythagorean theorum you can determine that making a wedge shaped cut will give you two 16" sides and a 12" side (or whatever you need to be able to fit your saw in further) this makes a cut that is only 14.8" deep, but allows you to then get your saw into the cut to get the remaining few inches you need. it may be necessary to take a wedge from both sides or only one.


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## ramonbow

A few thoughts:  a 30' log 30" wide is not going to roll very easily.
whereever it is currently off the ground you should jam some splits or branches under there to keep the log from falling into the dirt.  
start at the small end.
when you get to the point where you can't reach the middle from either side i would suggest finishing it with a hand saw or removing a couple of splits to gain access with your chainsaw.  
bring a big truck because that is going to be a lot of wood!


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## CJRages

I really like Danno's idea too... especially if the log is too large/odd shaped to roll.


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## muncybob

Some good points made, thanx to all. This will probably be a true learning experience for me. I've cut some large trunks before but was lucky enough that they were mostly raised off the round...this one appears to be mostly on the ground and does have a few large branch cutoffs that may make rolling difficult. Once it stops raining I'll be sure to take my camera with me when the cutting begins.


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## smokinj

Just like my avatar over the top as far as you can get..3 pivot points!


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## basod

Smokinjay
I don't think this tree would be much of an issue with that 880/41 combo


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## smokinj

BASOD said:
			
		

> Smokinjay
> I don't think this tree would be much of an issue with that 880/41 combo



No There's no issue when That thing fires-up. Even spectators go running...lol


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## Battenkiller

Danno77 said:
			
		

> if you don't use the right technique you are gonna hit the log with the tip of your saw as you begin the cut



Why would that be a problem with the way you are cutting in the diagram?  The danger zone for kickback is at the top corner of the bar tip, isn't it?  Looks like the bar would only touch on the bottom corner of the bar in your drawing.


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## Danno77

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you don't use the right technique you are gonna hit the log with the tip of your saw as you begin the cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would that be a problem with the way you are cutting in the diagram?  The danger zone for kickback is at the top corner of the bar tip, isn't it?  Looks like the bar would only touch on the bottom corner of the bar in your drawing.
Click to expand...

for a split second your bar will only be touching on the bottom, but as soon as your tip is an inch or two deep, then you have only a few inches of the bottom of the bar and the tip is at risk of really catching.

I, personally, only make sure I am a little more aware of my stance and potential danger zone if a kickback would occur, and make sure I'm running wide open and then cut away. It's important to know risky cuts just so you can be extra cautious, not to scare you completely away from doing them.

maybe this picture gets the idea across a little better.


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## Battenkiller

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Just like my avatar over the top as far as you can get..3 pivot points!



That's the way I was shown and have always done it.  Lots of vids on YouTube of pros with obviously good technique always seem to do it that way, so it can't be bad.  My little 011 only has a 14" bar, so I've experienced plenty of that kind of cutting.  Never anything that big, but lots of stuff in the 18-24" range.  Never had a problem except how slow my saw was.  Of course, I always ran safety chain on that one, but you guys hipped me to full chisel, so me and the 357 are ready.


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## Danno77

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like my avatar over the top as far as you can get..3 pivot points!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the way I was shown and have always done it.  Lots of vids on YouTube of pros with obviously good technique always seem to do it that way, so it can't be bad.  My little 011 only has a 14" bar, so I've experienced plenty of that kind of cutting.  Never anything that big, but lots of stuff in the 18-24" range.  Never had a problem except how slow my saw was.  Of course, I always ran safety chain on that one, but you guys hipped me to full chisel, so me and the 357 are ready.
Click to expand...

pivot points are only good if you can get all the way around the log. right?


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## CJRages

Looks like that tomato sitting on a large round rock is a goner!  :lol:


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## Danno77

CJRages said:
			
		

> Looks like that tomato sitting on a large round rock is a goner!  :lol:


lol, I know you aren't mocking my amazing MS-Paint skills!

Forget photoshop, etc. I'm old-school.


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## Mike PA

Get an 18" or 20" bar for your saw.  Even if your saw isn't powerful enough to run it well, take your time.  Get yourself plastic wedges.  They will eliminate the pinching concern.  Wedges are your friend.  

As others said, start a the small end of the log and work your way down.  When the logs get big, do as smokinjay says.  When they get bigger, you can do as Danno says.  Just be careful to start your bore cut with the lower quadrant of your bar.  Start to cut like you would normally, then pull the tip of the saw to the middle of the log and rotate the handle of the saw up while applying modest pressure at the tip.  While you are rotating the saw up, the tip should be starting to bore into the wood.  Once the tip is in, you can rotate the saw to 90º and push straight in with no fear of kickback. You can also noodle the logs to take chunks off the sides.


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## CaddyUser

How about noodling at the end of the log, and then blocking??


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## Danno77

CaddyUser said:
			
		

> How about noodling at the end of the log, and then blocking??


that's a good idea, too. I guess it depends on whether or not he can use 16" long splits. He'd only be able to noodle in 16" so that's all the longer he could make the pieces.

Come to think of it, I've never noodled with the saw buried. I've only noodled with a bit of the tip out and a good space for the noodles to come out at the saw. I'd be inclined to think that noodling would get a mess of noodles clogged in the saw if he's buried to the spikes.


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## Battenkiller

Danno77 said:
			
		

> for a split second your bar will only be touching on the bottom, but as soon as your tip is an inch or two deep, then you have only a few inches of the bottom of the bar and the tip is at risk of really catching.



I see what you are saying now, but I would never think of starting a cut that way.  Good to point out to folks who might, however.

I went fishing with a couple of buddies this weekend.  One of them brought along his 029 and it was pretty funny watching him use it like a hand saw... back and forth, and with a dull chain to boot.  Took him about a minute to get through each cut of a 10" punky hemlock log, then right into the dirt and on to the next cut. :lol:  No PPE either.  He said he didn't need it because he was watching the bar _very carefully_ (with his face right over the saw).  All I could do was cringe and hope for the best.  You know, you really can't say anything to a buddy in those circumstances because he won't listen.  Just make sure I know where the keys to his Jeep were was the best I could do.

BTW nice drawings.  How do you do them?


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## Battenkiller

Danno77 said:
			
		

> CJRages said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like that tomato sitting on a large round rock is a goner!  :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> lol, I know you aren't mocking my amazing MS-Paint skills!
> 
> Forget photoshop, etc. I'm old-school.
Click to expand...


Ah, ah!  I'm stuck with Photoshop.  My kid bought it for me with his school discount, but won't take the time to teach me how to draw in it.  He'd rather shake his head and laugh at the old man.  I'm pretty good at photo fixes, but the brat's a wiz at drawing in it and he won't share. lol


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## Mike PA

Danno77 said:
			
		

> CaddyUser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about noodling at the end of the log, and then blocking??
> 
> 
> 
> that's a good idea, too. I guess it depends on whether or not he can use 16" long splits. He'd only be able to noodle in 16" so that's all the longer he could make the pieces.
> 
> Come to think of it, I've never noodled with the saw buried. I've only noodled with a bit of the tip out and a good space for the noodles to come out at the saw. I'd be inclined to think that noodling would get a mess of noodles clogged in the saw if he's buried to the spikes.
Click to expand...


Yup.  The noodles get caught up under the clutch cover, more so on some saws than others.  Gotta clean them out periodically.  He doesn't need to limit himself to 16" lengths, as he can rotate the saw at different starting points instead of just from the end.


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## Danno77

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> [I see what you are saying now, but I would never think of starting a cut that way.  Good to point out to folks who might, however.


A long time ago, I was a newbie and I did a lot of searching through threads. I'd read the replies and think, geesh, I hope the OP knows what they are talking about, because it's gibberish to me. So when I post something that I think might come up in some newbie's search, I like to throw in some basic concepts because you just never know. It's never intended to be something I think the OP doesn't know, or that I think an OP is stupid, I'd rather say something useless about safety and have the comment ignored, than to leave something out and have some nameless face out there hurt themselves because they were armed with just enough knowledge to be dangerous.


> BTW nice drawings.  How do you do them?


the Paint program that comes with Windows. (I know you are shocked/impressed now, I can do custom work if you need it, lol) Even my avatar was done with Paint...


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## Battenkiller

Danno77 said:
			
		

> A long time ago, I was a newbie and I did a lot of searching through threads. I'd read the replies and think, geesh, I hope the OP knows what they are talking about, because it's gibberish to me. So when I post something that I think might come up in some newbie's search, I like to throw in some basic concepts because you just never know. It's never intended to be something I think the OP doesn't know, or that I think an OP is stupid, I'd rather say something useless about safety and have the comment ignored, than to leave something out and have some nameless face out there hurt themselves because they were armed with just enough knowledge to be dangerous.



Much appreciated, Danno.  I read all of these type threads but rarely contribute.  Most of everything I used to do was wrong I'm sure.  I quit felling trees entirely when I had a leaning cherry barber chair on me so bad I nearly pooped myself.  I have been buying c/s/d for so long I hardly ever used the little Stihl except for yard work.  Now that I have a real saw, it's great to get non-condescending advice from guys like you and Jay and Mike and others.  My hero days are long past, and I want to get back into this as safely as possible.  I'm treating this new saw like I'm a complete newbie.  Thanks all for setting us "newbies" straight.


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## muncybob

Danno, I'm still a green horn at cutting but I do know the basics and am very respectful of my saw.....but even if I were a verteran at this it's always good to be reminded of things from time to time!
Just the other day I was not paying enough attention and experiened some kickback while too far over the saw....after I was done calling myself stupid (and lucky) I remembered what I have been reading and been told. You can never hear "smart advice" too much!


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## oldspark

BK as I get older I start to question what I have done for years, I do not wear chaps or a hard hat when I cut wood, but now thanks to hearth I have to spend more money on PPE.


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## smokinj

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Battenkiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like my avatar over the top as far as you can get..3 pivot points!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the way I was shown and have always done it.  Lots of vids on YouTube of pros with obviously good technique always seem to do it that way, so it can't be bad.  My little 011 only has a 14" bar, so I've experienced plenty of that kind of cutting.  Never anything that big, but lots of stuff in the 18-24" range.  Never had a problem except how slow my saw was.  Of course, I always ran safety chain on that one, but you guys hipped me to full chisel, so me and the 357 are ready.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pivot points are only good if you can get all the way around the log. right?
Click to expand...


No take out the top first and the 2nd two points will be will be on both sides pretty low...I have done many of logs in the 59-61 in range with a 28 in. bar. All 3 piviot points will move 3-12 inchs  to get a max cut.


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## bogydave

Don't know if this would work on oak but it did on a big birch that I couldn't roll.
I had a 14" bar.(net about 12-1/2") cut one side all the way. then did the next round the same way. Stood on the log & split that half off both partial cut rounds, (a wedge would work here too)
 finished the first round cut, (which was a 1/2 round)
Lot lighter to lift into the truck too.
Worked my way up the log to where the saw could cut full rounds.

Went & got a 20" Husqvarna,  biggest birch I've cut here since was 26", no problems, just heavy so I split the big ones in half before loading.


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## Danno77

smokinjay said:
			
		

> No take out the top first and the 2nd two points will be will be on both sides pretty low...I have done many of logs in the 59-61 in range with a 28 in. bar. All 3 piviot points will move 3-12 inchs  to get a max cut.


Jay, I still don't understand the geometry of how one could get a bar that is too short into the middle of a log by just pivoting. a circle is a circle and the radius is the same at all points around it, there's no breaking that rule. I need a picture to show me how it's possible.


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## TreePointer

I know the goal usually is to save money by using the tools we already have, but a larger saw might be just the ticket.  In my area, I can rent a Jonsered 2171 (Husqvarna 372XP) or a Makita 6401 with  20-24" bars.  (Are you sure you don't have a neighbor with an MS660?  )

I also like the idea of using a longer bar on your saw for this job.  If you don't have a second saw around to cut yourself out of a pinch, having a second bar around is the next best thing (that is, of course, if your saw has an inboard clutch).


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## firefighterjake

CJRages said:
			
		

> Looks like that tomato sitting on a large round rock is a goner!  :lol:


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## smokinj

Danno77 said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No take out the top first and the 2nd two points will be will be on both sides pretty low...I have done many of logs in the 59-61 in range with a 28 in. bar. All 3 piviot points will move 3-12 inchs to get a max cut.
> 
> 
> 
> Jay, I still don't understand the geometry of how one could get a bar that is too short into the middle of a log by just pivoting. a circle is a circle and the radius is the same at all points around it, there's no breaking that rule. I need a picture to show me how it's possible.
Click to expand...


Don't know geometry but I look at a log in 1/3's (And start on the top 1/3) there is always a flat spot on every log somewhere this helps as well know when you hit that flat spot is priceless lol. I do most tree's in the 40in+ and for years only had a 28 in. bar....Really comes down to trigger time and only heaving as small bar. Good sharp true chain is a must.


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## Danno77

ok, Jay, I think I understand. You are talking about cutting logs that are bigger than your saw. I Hear ya, there, that's very similar to what i do. I think I was confused because I thought you were saying that you could cut logs that were more than 2x your bar length (like 5-10inches bigger). THAT'S what I couldn't figure out.


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## smokinj

Danno77 said:
			
		

> ok, Jay, I think I understand. You are talking about cutting logs that are bigger than your saw. I Hear ya, there, that's very similar to what i do. I think I was confused because I thought you were saying that you could cut logs that were more than 2x your bar length (like 5-10inches bigger). THAT'S what I couldn't figure out.




You can. Logs are not perfectly round exploit the flat spots and you can gain a few extra inch's here and there just depends on the log....I have done 61in. maple with a 28in. bar. I dont have to anymore...Yeah!


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## Danno77

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, Jay, I think I understand. You are talking about cutting logs that are bigger than your saw. I Hear ya, there, that's very similar to what i do. I think I was confused because I thought you were saying that you could cut logs that were more than 2x your bar length (like 5-10inches bigger). THAT'S what I couldn't figure out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can. Logs are not perfectly round exploit the flat spots and you can gain a few extra inch's here and there just depends on the log....I have done 61in. maple with a 28in. bar.
Click to expand...


ok, ok, I'll give you that. IF they aren't perfectly round, and the narrowest spot has a diameter that is equal to or less than 2x your bar, then it can be done... maybe even getting just a teensy 2-4" piece holding on in the center can be busted by the use of wedges...


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## smokinj

Danno77 said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Danno77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, Jay, I think I understand. You are talking about cutting logs that are bigger than your saw. I Hear ya, there, that's very similar to what i do. I think I was confused because I thought you were saying that you could cut logs that were more than 2x your bar length (like 5-10inches bigger). THAT'S what I couldn't figure out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can. Logs are not perfectly round exploit the flat spots and you can gain a few extra inch's here and there just depends on the log....I have done 61in. maple with a 28in. bar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok, ok, I'll give you that. IF they aren't perfectly round, and the narrowest spot has a diameter that is equal to or less than 2x your bar, then it can be done... maybe even getting just a teensy 2-4" piece holding on in the center can be busted by the use of wedges...
Click to expand...


Yes and the bigger the log the more chance to pick up extra inchs on flat spots.


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## Jim Stokes

smokinj said:


> Yes and the bigger the log the more chance to pick up extra inchs on flat spots.



I am in the small-time firewood business, and get "rescue" logs (rescued from going to the dump)...someone else has dropped the trees, usually neighbors have scavenged the limbs, leaving big wood. Few years ago I moved up to the 20" Poulan, but was presented with a 42" red oak that I feared I couldn't get thru, so I picked up a old 4' one man saw from a flea market! Used it to cut the center. My problem is having the cuts match up, usually caused by uneven sharpening or poor steering. I keep getting + 40" logs, so I got a 24" bar which helps.
I keep dreaming about a 60" bar on a hydraulic chainsaw, mounted on my Dingo. 
Anyone have any hints on how to draw a line around a log, to help guide us wandering sawyers?


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## peakbagger

Wrap a string around the log and mark the line with chalk.  

I have seen folks cut down as far as they can go on either side of the log and from the top then take a splitting wedge and split the cut section out of the way. That frees up space for the saw to cut down further and then they repeat. I expect after one of these logs they either buy a bigger saw or buy smaller wood. 

The pulp mill I used to work for set aside large diameter logs (anything over about 3 feet as our conveying equipment could not handle them. A few times a year they would bring in tractor trailer sized splitter and split the logs into sizes we could handle. Some of the wood was impressive, especially the hardwoods. Not many 3' diameter hardwoods left in the wood in the the far north of New England after a couple of hundred of years of logging. Usually gnarly old yellow birches without any straight grain to speak of.


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## SpaceBus

Rent a large pro saw.


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## kennyp2339

I saw a video once of a guy in Canada take a large diameter log, ripped a groove into it with a smaller chainsaw length wise, then used a bunch of splitting wedges to half the log, it looked like a lot of work but it seemed reasonable since he was cutting a 40" diameter trunk.


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## SpaceBus

kennyp2339 said:


> I saw a video once of a guy in Canada take a large diameter log, ripped a groove into it with a smaller chainsaw length wise, then used a bunch of splitting wedges to half the log, it looked like a lot of work but it seemed reasonable since he was cutting a 40" diameter trunk.



I would use an Alaskan chainsaw mill and some guide rails.


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