# How much $$$ will you save using a pellet stove?



## Mainiac (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm sure somewhere this topic has been started but I surfed through page after page of topics and couldn't find it so... start another one maybe? I'm trying to do the math to justify the purchase of a new pellet stove. If my math is flawed by even a little I suspect I'll still come out way ahead in the long run... just a little taste of what I've been working on. Of course there is no way to predict what oil prices will be but just for example:

Pellets cost $279 per ton
Oil $3.29 per gallon
use per year is approximately 1,200 gallons
I'm told a ton of pellets is roughly equal to 1 tank of oil. (250 gallons)

If I use 1 tank for sept-nov, dec, jan, feb, march-april total of 5 tanks = $4,112 oil
or $3.29 avg. x 250 gallons = $822.50 or I can burn 1 ton of pellets instead at $279 for a savings of $543.00 instead of oil.

$543 x 5 = $2,715 savings in the first winter. 

$1,899 (cost of new pellet stove)
$300 (new exhaust)
$837 (cost of 3 tons of pellets)

I figure break even 1st winter... future winters, priceless. 

Thoughts about what YOU are saving or where my math is "fuzzy math"?


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## DiggerJim (Sep 24, 2008)

There are *lots* of variables to consider -- efficiency of the stove vs. efficiency of the oil burner, layout of the house, insulation, etc. etc. You're not likely to replace all of your oil with pellets unless you live almost exclusively in the pellet stove room or you've got an extremely open design and you get a much larger & more expensive stove than implied by your $1800 cost.

You can use this calculator to give you a rough idea of costs/efficiencies/etc for various fuels: http://www.pelletheat.org/3/residential/compareFuel.cfm


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## hossthehermit (Sep 24, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> I'm sure somewhere this topic has been started but I surfed through page after page of topics and couldn't find it so... start another one maybe? I'm trying to do the math to justify the purchase of a new pellet stove. If my math is flawed by even a little I suspect I'll still come out way ahead in the long run... just a little taste of what I've been working on. Of course there is no way to predict what oil prices will be but just for example:
> 
> Pellets cost $279 per ton
> Oil $3.29 per gallon
> ...



I think most REALISTIC estimates are around 1 ton of pellets = about 120 gal. oil


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## sinnian (Sep 24, 2008)

It is an ever evolving, never ending figure.  When I ordered my PB150 my return was 3.5 - 4 years because the price of oil contracts were around $5.00/gal.  Now with the decrease in price it has moved closer to 10 years.  In the end it does not matter to me ~ though it isn't easy being green, it sure feels good.


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## thekid_1 (Sep 24, 2008)

A ton of pellets is more like 110 gallons of oil.


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## mkmh (Sep 24, 2008)

This topic comes up all the time, and you'll get lots of different opinions out here. I think the starting point for your math is fine (2 tons pellets = 250 gallons of oil), but as DiggerJim pointed out, every situation is a bit different and results vary.
Generally speaking a 1 year break even is very unusual. 2-4 years is much more typical. Also, if you want the number to work and to see big dollar savings, you have to assign a rate of zero to your extra time you put in (versus time spent with the oil furnace) dealing with pellets, tending the stove, doing maintenance etc.

Anyhoo, i'd say yes you are going to save money over the long haul, but temper your expectations a little bit and do consider the extra time you'll spend with the pellets, and stove


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## DiggerJim (Sep 24, 2008)

hossthehermit said:
			
		

> I think most REALISTIC estimates are around 1 ton of pellets = about 120 gal. oil


Oil at 100% efficiency has about 138000 BTU/gallon. Pellets have about 16million BTU/ton. So, at 100% efficiency 1 ton of pellets equals 118.8 gallons of oil. Now oil burners and pellet stoves aren't 100% efficient but by & large they're pretty close to each other (in terms of burning efficiencies around 80%ish). Your oil burner may be more efficient in getting heat to the places you want it (like the whole house) or less efficient (e.g. a couple of rooms and you don't have zone controls) so the equivalency gets even harder. But hand grenade math suggests using a more conservative 100 gallons of oil vs 1 ton of pellets --- which seems to be Craig's (our fearless webmaster) favorite "just move the decimal point on the price" method.


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## ktfinch2000 (Sep 24, 2008)

100 gallons to 1 ton seems correct.


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## webbie (Sep 24, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> Pellets cost $279 per ton
> Oil $3.29 per gallon
> use per year is approximately 1,200 gallons
> I'm told a ton of pellets is roughly equal to 1 tank of oil. (250 gallons)



Very fuzzy math - you can see why we are in trouble with the economy!

If one is going to be honest with themselves - and, face it, very few are - we have to figure in ALL the variables. That means the cost of money (to buy the stove), cleaning and servicing it, hauling the pellets, loading, etc.

Even a simple calculation like this can be tough!

BUT, for the old general rule of thumb - use this.....just move the decimal point.
$279 pellets = $2.79 oil. That does consider a little slop, such as the price of the stove, etc.

Using that, we can see that your savings for EACH ton burned is about $50. Burn 4 tons a year, and save $200.

The calculation improves when you get pellets cheaper off-season, and....for the short time when oil was higher....and, for LP gas and electric heat.

For instance:
$220 pellets vs. $4.00 oil - now we see a savings of $180 for each ton burned, or $720 a year. Now we are talking!

You will hear all kinds of BS (as you already did...from the 250 person!)...but it comes down to BTU to BTU. I can provide hard numbers if you like for a particular example, but trust me when I say moving the decimal is the easier way for a general comp.


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## webbie (Sep 24, 2008)

Just to save anyone else the typing, let me state some of the usual answers:

"Well, how do you explain that I burned 2 tons and saved $1000?"
or
"I saved much more than that?"

How is this possible? The answer is that you have to ask Tom Cruise or John Travolta.....they paid a lot of money and can show you how Scientology made them "clear". (sorry to the scientologists on the board, but at the same time I don't believe in Pay to Pray).

A lot of people, including my friendly fellow board members, will argue that personal experience trumps reality, physics and science. If that were the truth, I somehow developed the ability to levitate in my dreams once...I actually did fly! It was real. Perception is everything. I can show you multi-million dollar companies (you see and hear the ads) that sell ELECTRIC heaters and claim you can save hundreds or thousands on your heating bill with them. That is despite the fact that electric is the most expensive fuel out there. Somehow, if you spend a lot of money on this heavily advertised heater, common sense flies out the window.

Anyway, those who are great optimists and want to brag to their friends can use 1 ton-125 gallons, those who are bankers and Warren Buffet types can use 100.


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## chrisasst (Sep 24, 2008)

when I was using my oil furance, I was spending approx $600 a month...with pellets, I am spending $250 a month and I am not using my oil at all.


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## Mainiac (Sep 25, 2008)

I figured my numbers are a bit on the optimistic side as far as total savings. As expected I don't plan on using pellets as my primary heat source. That will be the good old furnace... but to cut back on oil I plan on installing a programable thermastat and programing to turn down during the daytime while at work, and in the evening while sleeping... turn the pellet stove up in the afternoon when I get home from work to "kick it up a notch" for a few hours and then back down.... I'm guessing that the stove being in the basement will really heat up the stone / brick foundation I have and radiate heat for hours after it's been turned down. The stove I'm looking at has a huge hopper and a slow burn setting which should help maintain the overall heat level in the home so the furnace doesn't have to work so hard to raise the temp all the way up to 65 / 68 degrees.... with oil prices all over the map and an uncertain future ahead thought it would be an excellent way to have options for heat rather than just relying on oil.


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## wb2bhc (Sep 25, 2008)

The calculations can go on and on.  Looking at all the variables from average temperatures and degree days to
the cost of oil in foreign markets all these are quite a valuable way of looking at the economy of a pellet stove
installation.

But overall it comes down to the look on your face as the oil truck drives down the road passing your house is 
PRICELESS

Have a warm and toasty winter

Jay


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## webbie (Sep 25, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> I figured my numbers are a bit on the optimistic side as far as total savings.
> I'm guessing that the stove being in the basement will really heat up the stone / brick foundation I have and radiate heat for hours after it's been turned down.



Please don't say you are installing the stove in an unfinished basement and expect to heat up the foundation....please.....please....

You do understand that there are hundreds of tons of cold earth and cement at a constant 45 degrees (Maine)......and you are going to heat it up with a pound or two of pellets per hour?

Put the pellet stove in the living area or use a pellet furnace and tie into duct work. Otherwise, the cost will be HIGHER that the cost of oil. 

You are correct in that BIGGEST savings often comes from conservation and other common sense cutbacks.


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## Mainiac (Sep 25, 2008)

I am curious... can anyone tell me how many bags per day they use in the dead of winter? Each bag is 40 lbs correct? The prices I heard avg. $4-5 per bag depending on premium, hardwood, softwood etc.... is that correct?


"Please don’t say you are installing the stove in an unfinished basement and expect to heat up the foundation....please.....please.... 

You do understand that there are hundreds of tons of cold earth and cement at a constant 45 degrees (Maine)......and you are going to heat it up with a pound or two of pellets per hour? 

Put the pellet stove in the living area or use a pellet furnace and tie into duct work. Otherwise, the cost will be HIGHER that the cost of oil. 

You are correct in that BIGGEST savings often comes from conservation and other common sense cutbacks."

.... thank your pointing it out. I am aware of what you are saying and have considered it & realize I can't "heat the foundation". However it won't be radiating cold air (45 degrees into the house if the basement is heated) The floor plan in my home doesn't allow me to install in in the living area or I would LOVE to. I've got a 1900's Victorian. My livingroom is 15' x 15' and has 5 
doors & 2 windows and zero exterior wall space to install...  I have FHW Baseboard heat. The home previously had FHA but a previous owner took it out. The only remaining evidence of FHA is the floor vents in 1st floor of the home. The only option I have is installing in basement and allowing heat to rise through the vents in the floor.


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## webbie (Sep 25, 2008)

No forum member in recent memory is paying $4 a bag (200 a ton delivered) in Maine. 

You mentioned 279, that is about $5.50 to $6 which is what the average delivered price is right now in your neck of the woods.

In cold weather, expect to burn 2 bags per 24 hours. That is 3 pounds per hour or about 20,000 BTU (1/6 the output of a typical oil furnace - or the same size as a large kerosene heater).


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## Mainiac (Sep 25, 2008)

"In cold weather, expect to burn 2 bags per 24 hours. That is 3 pounds per hour or about 20,000 BTU" 

I'm Sorry, you are right I meant $5-6 per bag... so even if it was $6 a bag delivered, two bags per day thats $12 per day to heat x 30 days is $360. Maine oil avg for today is $3.46 x 250 gallons = $865 for a month
That according to my caculations saves $505? Did I do that right? 

*And THANK YOU everyone for your insight and input in replying... I haven't bought the unit yet and your feedback, recommendations etc. are humbly appreciated as I'm a rookie, new to all of this.  I guess I'm just trying to understand / research what to expect before plunking down $2,000 for a fairly high maintenence heater (have to feed it everyday, clean it etc.) compared to making a quick phone call to the oil guy and saying "I need 200 gallons" and watching the next foot ball game & drinking a cold beer. LOL Thank You!


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## DiggerJim (Sep 25, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> The floor plan in my home doesn't allow me to install in in the living area or I would LOVE to. I've got a 1900's Victorian. My livingroom is 15' x 15' and has 5
> doors & 2 windows and zero exterior wall space to install...  I have FHW Baseboard heat. The home previously had FHA but a previous owner took it out. The only remaining evidence of FHA is the floor vents in 1st floor of the home. The only option I have is installing in basement and allowing heat to rise through the vents in the floor.


Do you have an existing fireplace (can't imagine a 1900s Victorian that doesn't)? If so, you can vent a stove (free standing or insert) up through the fireplace chimney (you run a pellet vent liner up the masonry chimney). Check out Thelin stoves (http://www.thelinco.com/) as they would seem to match the decor of an old Victorian nicely.


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## Mainiac (Sep 25, 2008)

Nope no fireplace.....  Honestly the best place for a stove would be on the central chimney that runs right up the house... has thimbles on both sides where I assume old coal / wood stoves had been but they are now closed off as the FHW oil furnace uses the chimney. (only one flue / clean out as well).... wish it was 2 would save me ALOT of headaches with my problem.


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## CelciusMaximus (Sep 25, 2008)

the beauty of a pellet stove or similar is ,you can heat the main area of your home where you spend most of your time.
other areas like bedrooms , second floors or little occupied rooms may be left unheated. this alone may provide a great cost savings.
but there are many variables involved.


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## webbie (Sep 25, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> two bags per day thats $12 per day to heat x 30 days is $360. Maine oil avg for today is $3.46 x 250 gallons = $865 for a month
> That according to my caculations saves $505? Did I do that right?
> 
> "I need 200 gallons" and watching the next foot ball game & drinking a cold beer. LOL Thank You!



Those are seat of the pants calculations - sort of like saying "I saved the price of a car because I rode a bike to work last week".....

The reality is that a pellet stove burning 2 bags a day in a Maine basement will not replace the oil.....not nearly......

Now, I cannot argue with beer and football games, if that is part of your heating calculations......but, again, if you are going to be fair to yourself, you have to compare BTU to BTU. Why? Because, as you say, before you deal with the hassle of manual work, it pays to be somewhat accurate. 

So let's try another example........

Let us say you are going to install EITHER a pellet stove in your basement OR a new oil burning Monitor-type high efficiency oil burner in the same space.
http://www.monitorproducts.com/products/roomheaters/kerosene/m2400

BOTH burn at about the same BTU rate - let's use that same 20,000 BTU an hour output.
You would use 4 gallons of oil in 24 hours to maintain that output. 
You would use 75 lbs or so of pellets in 24 hours to maintain that output.

The oil would cost $14.00/day at $3.50 a gallon - or $420.00 a month
The pellets would be a total of about 2400 lbs - 60 bags, at $6 would equal $360.00

Savings would be $60 for that month. 

There it is, in black and white. It does not include beer jokes or bud commercials.

And, still , NEITHER an oil stove or a pellet stove is a good idea for unfinished basements when you are trying to heat a home.


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## kyburnr (Sep 25, 2008)

Mainiac,

Here is what I have learned from reading a VERY LARGE amount of threads on this forum:

You may use 1 Ton of pellets or you may use 7 tons of pellet
Using the fan only on your central system MAY or MAY NOT work for you
Moving warm air to cold rooms may work for you
Moving cold air to your stove may work better
You may save thousands, hundreds, or tens of dollars this winter
placing the stove in an unfinished  basement usually is no good
Using open floor vents rarely works

To sum up:
                        People on here are from different areas.  We have Winter, Spring , Summer and Fall here, Some people on Here have 2 seasons Winter and 4th of July   , Everyones house is different. INSULATION and CIRCULATION varies.  Not trying to be smart, in any way, these are good people and what they write can be very helpful, but the only way to find out how well it will work for YOU is try it, and hope for the best!!  Good Luck to you.


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## woodsman23 (Sep 25, 2008)

You need to be heating the area you live in the most. If you live in the basement all the time then yes put er in. But if you live upstairs as i think you do then put the stove in the main living area and you will get the very best results. Unfinished basements that are not insulated properly just cannot work. Put the stove in the living area and be surprised.

Whatever you decide, good luck


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## lessoil (Sep 25, 2008)

kyburnr said:
			
		

> Mainiac,
> 
> Here is what I have learned from reading a VERY LARGE amount of threads on this forum:
> 
> ...




Well put!
It will be interesting to see the results from everyone next Spring!!
I have calculated until my head spins!!
We were burning 30 or so gals of oil a week during extended cold spells. (900 gals/yr for heat and hot water)
That will be my main reference point. The other will be how comfortable everyone is.
I will stop there as my head is starting to spin again!


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## kyburnr (Sep 25, 2008)

I have also heard some others do have 4 seasons,   Almost winter, Winter, Still winter , and Road construction.


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## DiggerJim (Sep 25, 2008)

kyburnr said:
			
		

> I have also heard some others do have 4 seasons,   Almost winter, Winter, Still winter , and Road construction.


We usually don't count "Road Construction" as it overlaps with Almost Winter -- most actual road construction occurs in the 30 days preceding the closing of the asphalt plants in November here. Before that it's just a change from year to year of where they are storing their construction equipment.


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## ssupercoolss (Sep 25, 2008)

unfortunatley no math will work here.  see, i defy all of the math previously stated.  i used maybe 100 gallons of oil and 2 tons of pellets to heat my house last year.  usually i burn 800 gallons for heating.  and here is why pellet consumption is different for everyone.  i am single.  i keep my house at about 64 degrees.  that is comfortable to me.  at 70 i start to sweat. i dont heat my basement, unless i am having poker night, and in that case i use an electric heater.  i close the door to my 3rd bedroom.  so, what you have to understand is with my pellet stove, which is in my living room, i am heating about1/2 the house my oil boiler would heat.  it has one zone, and i cant shut any of the radiators off.  so for my living room to be 64, my 3rd bedroom will also be 64, which is kind of a waste, since ghosts dont like heat.  long story short - its gonna be different for everyone.


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## 90durham (Sep 25, 2008)

I have a new stove myself and am projecting cutting my oil consumption by 50%, I have kept a spreadsheet of usage based on auto delivery the last 3 years and at current delivery prices(still nearly $5.00 a US gallon here). I "hope" that my stove will pay for itself in 3-4 years and with above oil price and pellets at about $300.00/ ton I believe is somewhat conservative.
I too live in a century brick with 2400 square feet, center hall plan and have 2 kids and a wife who learned to defeat my programmable thermostat within seconds of me installing it.
The risk of fuel oil dropping in price is meaningless to me, the lower the better. I bought the stove to reduce dependence on oil, be a little greener and add a wonderful addition and conversation piece to our home.
I won't know until spring exactly where it will shake out but am certain alot of new users will be posting results by then.


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## RonaldAdams (Sep 25, 2008)

Hello

I purchased my pellet stove to keep the basement warm and to stop my teenage daugthers from interupting me during the hockey ( GO HABS!) game to complain that it's cold downstairs and can they watch TV upstairs where it is nice and warm. :lol: 

And it's an added bonus if some of that heat drifts upstairs and reduces my oil consumption.


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## Mainiac (Sep 25, 2008)

It's interesting that we haven't had much feedback from people that have been using pellet stoves for a few years and compare their previous oil usage before they got the pellet stove? I keep doing the "math" so to speak and for the life of me can't see any reason not to put one in? I won't bother to save $50 a month... not worth the hassel. I'm curious what others feel they save each winter with the stove in place?


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## Xena (Sep 25, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> It's interesting that we haven't had much
> feedback from people that have been using pellet stoves for a few years and compare
> their previous oil usage before they got the pellet stove?




That's because we know all too well how these threads wind up.   ;-) 

Seriously though, I'm going into the 4th yr with this stove.  The years
prior to getting this stove oil was way cheap so I can't really compare
to the past.  Can only look forward and do the "math" for the here and now.
I paid $768 for 3 tons of Cleanfire delivered and my oil guy to date wants 3.48.
Also save by doing all my own stove maintenance
and confident I can replace any parts that may fail in the future. 
(Last Feb. I replaced the room air blower, it got noisy because I never removed it to clean)
I'm saving enough for it to be worth it to me to burn pellets.


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## ktfinch2000 (Sep 25, 2008)

I guess it comes down to saving a little bit or a substantial amount of money depending on your own circumstances. We are not going to use more oil so thats a good thing imo!


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## iceman (Sep 26, 2008)

i have/had pellet stoves..   they are area heaters in which with the right setup they can heat a house .. however not as good as a furnace (which will give more even heating in rooms)  if your house is insulated very well putting it in the basement will do more than alittle for you ... not insulated well forget it!  it will take days to get the chill outta the basement running a pellet stove without chewing up pellets! for the money you are gonna spend get a furnace if available!  if not find somewhere else in the house to put it ...make a place if need be.. sounds like your house might not be well insulated take the 2000 and start insulating first.. you can prolly do most of it yourself saving  ALOTTa money that will be your biggest return this year .. insulate and if done right in such a old home you could prolly cut your bill in half.. then find a place for the stove... in the basement unless you are gonna be down there is a waste of your money at this time..
i have had 3 pellet stoves and currently a harman accentra...  stove works ok forwhat i want it to heat.. but night and day when i took out tile on ground level and replaced with carpet..why the carpet was like adding insulation ....


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## Mainiac (Sep 26, 2008)

The house is insulated not the problem. Has blown in insulation in all the walls, all windows have been updated / replaced etc. For a 2 1/2 story home I don't think 1,100 - 1,200 gallons is excessive. I follow the financial markets fairly closely. Very disconcerning to see how oil prices rose to such levels on speculation... it's settled a bit for now, but for how long? I started to realize I've got too many "heating eggs" in one basket. Want to "diversify" my heating options... aka, the reason I'm looking at installing the Pellet Stove. 

It's not the $$$ amount of "savings" I believe is as important for comparison as much as "gallons saved" are. ($ amounts fluctuate too much) Most oil companies can tell you how many gallons you used for any fiscal year. So if for example someone used 800 gallons from june 05 - june 06. And 874 gallons from june 06 - june 07. Then installed a new pellet stove in say Sept of 07. How much oil did they use from June 07 - June 08? And during that time how many bags / tons of pellets? If the oil usage went down to 524 gallons for instance I'd say it's a success... if they still use 790 gallons they are "heat diversified" but didn't save much money? So is it worth the hassle to stack 40 lb bags of pellets, storage, & maintenance? If not then maybe it would make more sense to install a high performance gas stove that runs in the mid 94% efficiency rather than use the oil furnace in the low 83% & forgo the pellet stove altogether? 
It is an interesting topic & thank you everyone for your replys.


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## MCPO (Sep 26, 2008)

The bottom line is readily apparent IMO. Pellets can definitely save many users a significant amount of money .  Surely not by providing the same amount of heat for substantially less than your central furnace but by heating only  the most used areas of the house , and this can be a good thing for most folks. It`s almost sinful to keep the heat in sleeping areas the same temp as the living spaces.


Still, you must factor into account the length of time (in years) it takes to amortize the initial costs of stove and installation not to mention the extra work , noise, maintenance, uneven temps , colder bathrooms? , unavailability of pellets and their rising costs too. 
 Then you might have to filter out dust / fines from those pellets. And think about where to store them.  
 No free lunch with pellets either.


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## Mainiac (Sep 26, 2008)

Just heard an ad on the radio for Frost & Flame & "Save up to 50% on Winter home heating costs"... http://frostandflame.com/default.asp
I think I need to stop by the shop and see how they can help me save 50%...  I'll let you know what they tell me. 

I keep hearing you have to compare "apples to apples". BTU's. Have to count BTU's... BTU's, BTU's, BTU's.... 
And I'm not sure who is responsible for the "fuzzy math" on this site. Doesn't make any sense whatsover or is it me?... used this online cost of heating worksheet and according to them it should only cost $252.94 cents to heat a 2,500 sf house in Maine? I'm trying to get to these "BTU's" for comparison sake but it isn't easy folks! http://www.travisproducts.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp try the calculator on your own and see what I mean... 

I think Futureboiler said it best when he said: "unfortunatley no math will work here.  see, i defy all of the math previously stated.  i used maybe 100 gallons of oil and 2 tons of pellets to heat my house last year.  usually i burn 800 gallons for heating.  and here is why pellet consumption is different for everyone.... " Thanks bud. I believe your on to something...


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## webbie (Sep 26, 2008)

Little clue for you......

Comparisons on the sites of companies that sell millions of dollars with of these stoves - and calculators on the site of the trade group that represent them......MAY give best case scenarios. It's called "selling".

If you can get it into your head that there is NO MAGIC involved, that will go a long way. There are three potential sources of savings:
1. Fuel to Fuel - BTU to BTU - depending on your costs, this seem to be in the range of a 30% savings right now of pellets over oil. So $1000 worth of oil might take $700 worth of pellets, more or less. You have to add the cost of the stove, maintaining it, service, parts in the future, etc. for a more accurate account.

2. Space heat vs Central Heat - This can ALWAYS create a lot of savings (but NOT if the stove is located in the basement) - anyway, space heat is a savings over central - BUT, the same goes for a freestanding oil unit or gas unit! So you cannot credit the PELLETS for that savings. That is a space heat savings.

3. Conservation - because you will be working for your heat (loading/cleaning, etc.), you are more tuned into what it takes to heat your house. This encourages CONSERVATION. That adds to your savings.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND #2 AND #3 CAN BE DONE WITH OTHER FUELS OR WITH NO NEW FUEL AT ALL. In other words, turning town your thermostat when you are not there and getting savings is not a result of burning pellets.

These are separate discussions. Space heat vs. central heat - being tuned in to your heating needs. But the only really accurate way to compare the cost of fuels is BTU to BTU.

40 lb bag of pellets = 300,000 BTU input when adjusted for moisture.
Oil is 138,000 BTU per gallon. So 2.17 gallons of oil for the same input.

50 bags of pellets (ton), therefore, is 105 gallons of oil IF you are getting the same efficiency out of both fuels.
A $280 ton of pellets vs 105 x 3.50 (Maine price today) = 367.00 - a savings of 87 for each ton in that particular case - not including amortisation of stove price, end of year service, your work, etc.

The fact is you CAN save a lot of money with a space heat (but not in the basement)....what we have to add to that is the the space heater can be electric, LP, pellet, wood or even oil and still save you money.


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## mkmh (Sep 26, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> 2. Space heat vs Central Heat - This can ALWAYS create a lot of savings (but NOT if the stove is located in the basement) - anyway, space heat is a savings over central - BUT, the same goes for a freestanding oil unit or gas unit! So you cannot credit the PELLETS for that savings. That is a space heat savings.



IMO this is probably the biggest, most often overlooked factor. The pellet stove is like a tool that moves you away from central heating. Central heating is really expensive at today's prices (oil, LP, pellets, whatever). Most people who are enjoying savings from their pellet stoves installed them in or near the room where they spend the most time. These folks also accept the fact that the whole is not going to be the same temperature. Once you get that settled in your mind then the savings will most likely come, but it is important to understand that installing a pellet boiler to replace an oil boiler isn't going to save a boatload of money at today's prices. 
The key is to change your lifestyle when you bring the stove in and get to a point where you can be comfortable with fewer BTUs in total. Use half the BTUs over a course of a New England and your savings will be significant.


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## natnyer (Sep 26, 2008)

geez a whole lota numbers here.Bottom line. Pellet stoves will save ya money till you can afford a mini nuclear reactor bought on the russian black market lol


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## 2c3d (Sep 27, 2008)

this will be our 5th yr. burning pellets....(quadra castile free standing).....average oil consumption before stove installation...(600) gal. per yr here in northern N.J.....1,400 sq ft log cabin with very open floor plan...2x6 exterior walls with pella windows....thermostat for pellet stove is 20 ft away from stove....thermostat for oil furnace is 40 ft away from stove....in winter we set the stove thermostat at 72 degrees.....we set the oil thermostat at 60 degrees.....with these settings oil thermostat reads (68 degrees)....we burn (0) oil for heating....if stove should malfunction oil furnace will fire up at 60 degrees, for backup...

we have NEVER, repeat, NEVER burned more than 4 ton of pellets per yr....we purchased our 4 ton this yr. in June from TSC called (hardwood heat) $ 225.00 per ton x 4 ton = $ 900.00....oil is ($ 4.00 per gal.) x 600 gal = $ 2,400...savings=($1,500)....I can't explain it any better than this....


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## lessoil (Sep 27, 2008)

deercroft said:
			
		

> this will be our 5th yr. burning pellets....(quadra castile free standing).....average oil consumption before stove installation...(600) gal. per yr here in northern N.J.....1,400 sq ft log cabin with very open floor plan...2x6 exterior walls with pella windows....thermostat for pellet stove is 20 ft away from stove....thermostat for oil furnace is 40 ft away from stove....in winter we set the stove thermostat at 72 degrees.....we set the oil thermostat at 60 degrees.....with these settings oil thermostat reads (68 degrees)....we burn (0) oil for heating....if stove should malfunction oil furnace will fire up at 60 degrees, for backup...
> 
> we have NEVER, repeat, NEVER burned more than 4 ton of pellets per yr....we purchased our 4 ton this yr. in June from TSC called (hardwood heat) $ 225.00 per ton x 4 ton = $ 900.00....oil is ($ 4.00 per gal.) x 600 gal = $ 2,400...savings=($1,500)....I can't explain it any better than this....



Great Post!
This is exactly how I will compare our oil usage before/after.
Sounds like you have a near perfect set up!


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## MainePellethead (Sep 27, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> I am curious... can anyone tell me how many bags per day they use in the dead of winter? Each bag is 40 lbs correct? The prices I heard avg. $4-5 per bag depending on premium, hardwood, softwood etc.... is that correct?
> 
> 
> "Please don’t say you are installing the stove in an unfinished basement and expect to heat up the foundation....please.....please....
> ...



The only way I would put a pellet stove in my basement is if I had a complete finished off basement and already had a stove upstairs in the living area.  I would never put it in the basement  for my only stove, you forever try to get the heat to circulate upstairs correctly.


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## MainePellethead (Sep 27, 2008)

deercroft said:
			
		

> we have NEVER, repeat, NEVER burned more than 4 ton of pellets per yr....we purchased our 4 ton this yr. in June from TSC called (hardwood heat) $ 225.00 per ton x 4 ton = $ 900.00....oil is ($ 4.00 per gal.) x 600 gal = $ 2,400...savings=($1,500)....I can't explain it any better than this....



Thats exactly how I explain my savings....cant explain it any better.  I dont even look at BTU calculations.....i look at cold hard cash savings and our comfort levels to that effect.


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## Mainiac (Sep 27, 2008)

deercroft said:
			
		

> this will be our 5th yr. burning pellets....(quadra castile free standing).....average oil consumption before stove installation...(600) gal. per yr here in northern N.J.....1,400 sq ft log cabin with very open floor plan...2x6 exterior walls with pella windows....thermostat for pellet stove is 20 ft away from stove....thermostat for oil furnace is 40 ft away from stove....in winter we set the stove thermostat at 72 degrees.....we set the oil thermostat at 60 degrees.....with these settings oil thermostat reads (68 degrees)....we burn (0) oil for heating....if stove should malfunction oil furnace will fire up at 60 degrees, for backup...
> 
> we have NEVER, repeat, NEVER burned more than 4 ton of pellets per yr....we purchased our 4 ton this yr. in June from TSC called (hardwood heat) $ 225.00 per ton x 4 ton = $ 900.00....oil is ($ 4.00 per gal.) x 600 gal = $ 2,400...savings=($1,500)....I can't explain it any better than this....



Deercroft, thank you for your post! A few times I've made suggestions that the numbers seem to me that there would be pretty substantial savings not just $50 per month and you confirmed it. Maybe I'm just looking through rose colored glasses... LOL


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## 2c3d (Sep 28, 2008)

hey folks;

the numbers I have stated are factual.....we purchased our home in 1991, heating oil at that time was .77 cents per gal....we installed our pellet stove in 2004....heating oil then was $ 2.34 per gal....(look where we are now).....in the first 13 yrs. we heated totally with oil.....prices for oil has changed...however our average oil consumption was (600 gal.)....

after burning pellets for the first three yrs our stove has paid for itself.....since then it has been all biscuits $ gravey....


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## Jerry_NJ (Sep 28, 2008)

Mainiac,

Craig is giving you good input on the economics, I can give you some experience on the physical. 

I have a two story, about 1,000 sf per floor with a full basement.  The basement is deep, and unfinished.  

I have a coal/wood airtight in the basement and in past years I have run it as a supplemental heat (I had an air-to-air heat pump) and while I lost a lot of heat into the walls, the stove did deliver a lot of heat to the upstairs.  In cold weather I was trying to reduce electric use at near resistive cost heating levels, or a COP of 1, for the HP.  So, I was saving money.

I installed a geothermal heat pump about 15 years go, and no longer use the basement stove for anything other than heating the basement, if needed.  In general the basement isn't heated.


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## Mainiac (Sep 29, 2008)

Hey Jerry, I read your reply about 4 times and think I understand what your saying but your "air to air heat pump" and "reduce electric use at near resistive cost heating levels, or a COP of 1, for the HP" is honestly a bit out of my understanding / knowledge? I understand the concept of heat pumps but I'm more familiar with the concept of geo thermo heat pumps... 

If you could be so kind as to give your .02 as to whether or not your personaly feel it is a good decision to install in the basement I'd be very appreciative. Another poster just had a similiar inquiry and got mixed reviews as well. Thank You.


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## Jerry_NJ (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry for the jargon.  With an air-to-air heat pump one loses most of the heat pump advantage/efficiency as the air temp outside goes below freezing, thus making heating with a heat pump at those times about the same cost-wise as using resistive heat.  Thus, when I was considering the cost of coal or wood to gain a BTU, and the efficiency of doing so in the basement stove, I had a very expensive heat source savings to balance that wood/coal cost.  Once I installed a geothermal heat pump, uses the earth temperature, not air temperature to draw heat from, I was able to get a Coefficient Of Performance (COP) of 3 to 4 even when it is freezing outside (uses 1/3 to 1/4th the electric KWHs of resistive heat).  Now I can't "justify" the cost of coal/wood in the basement as a cost effective alternative to the heat pump.  However, if I want some heat in the basement, the stove is great as my central heating isn't set up to heat the basement anyway.

Hope this explanation helps.


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## Mainiac (Sep 29, 2008)

Yes it does sir thank you.


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## Chinkowski (Oct 1, 2008)

howdy,
  new to the forum and pellet stoves in general. after getting buried with propane bills the last couple years i decided to go to pellets after lurking on this site for awhile. the info is abundant and the the people are very knoweldgeable. hopefully i'll be able to trim the propane bill and actually be warm this winter. i think the savings could be dramatic if everything works out. the key is buying pellets at the right price which i missed the boat on this year. i'm just looking forward being warm and having another option. stay warm.


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## daveb (Nov 2, 2008)

2 level house, 1800sqft(1000LL, 800UL), Prior average oil heating bill $300-$400month, $10-$12/day. Harmon fireplace insert in a room with a 18ft cathedral ceiling. average 58bags/year.  this is our 4th season with the stove.  It has helped reduce our oil consumption and improve comfort in the main living space. In those 3 years we updated the windows which decreased oil consumption and improved overall comfort. I just installed a ceiling fan in the room with the pellet stove which has the 18ft cathedral ceiling. this has made a significant difference in the lower level temp and comfort. the temp on the termostat 2 rooms a way has gone up 9 degrees and the pellet burn rate is much lower(3*/75degrees room temp. the room is much warmer. We have used the pellet stove and a and occasional space heater upstairs so far without turning on the central heat. prior to this year, the stove was mostly zone heating, with the fan we look to save considerably on oil.

these are the rough numbers:
prior oil heating:  $300-$400month
after stove and windows; $150-$225month.
this year with the addition of the ceiling fan: we haven't turned on central oil heat yet. burning 1bag every 2-3 days. average temperatures so far 46nt/ 55day. lower 1000sq/ft increased temp 60-69degrees.

bottom line: Try to maximize the heat of the stove for improved comfort and decreased oil consumption.

Dave


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## mtalea (Nov 3, 2008)

Mainiac said:
			
		

> I'm sure somewhere this topic has been started but I surfed through page after page of topics and couldn't find it so... start another one maybe? I'm trying to do the math to justify the purchase of a new pellet stove. If my math is flawed by even a little I suspect I'll still come out way ahead in the long run... just a little taste of what I've been working on. Of course there is no way to predict what oil prices will be but just for example:
> 
> Pellets cost $279 per ton
> Oil $3.29 per gallon
> ...


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## mailmanmark (Nov 3, 2008)

Just got oil @ 2.69  but still can't get pellets even @ $300 a ton. Thank god I still have the wood stove.


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## lessoil (Nov 3, 2008)

chrisasst said:
			
		

> when I was using my oil furance, I was spending approx $600 a month...with pellets, I am spending $250 a month and I am not using my oil at all.



This will be how I look at it.
Next May I will know how we made out.


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## Tom Pencil (Nov 3, 2008)

The previous owner of my house went through 1,250 gallons of oil/year.
The first year we lived there I bought a programable thermostat.....950 gallons
Second year we used............. 880 gallons
Third year Installed new water boiler(Buderus)................820 gallons
Fourth year installed Harman insert.... 4 tons pellets and 400 gallons
Fifth year....................4 1/2 Tons and 380 gallons
Sixth year...................5 tons and 390 gallons
Seventh year..............5 1/2 tons and 360 gallons

I always buy my fuel oil at summer pricing and with taxes payed $3.98 gallon for 250 gallons
it is now around $2.50 gallon so I timed it wrong but it is way better of buying only 250 gallons than filling up at 820 or more.

I did time buying my pellets right as I payed only $179/ton and have 5 1/2 ready for the winter.
I was in the store the other day and they were selling them for $279 if they had them.


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## natnyer (Nov 3, 2008)

I don't think there is any reason to keep a house above 65 degrees in the winter. Wear a sweatshirt sweat pants or a coat if you have to save money and make a middle east shiek wonder whos paying for his next ferrari. Buy pellets .


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## DiggerJim (Nov 3, 2008)

natnyer said:
			
		

> I don't think there is any reason to keep a house above 65 degrees in the winter. Wear a sweatshirt sweat pants or a coat .


That's why I bought a pellet stove - so I don't have to keep it at 65 degrees. That's just too cold for me and I don't want to wander around dressed like a mukluk. If I'm sitting watching tv or reading my feet get cold when it's 65 and when my feet are cold the rest of me feels cold too. The pellet stove & 70 degrees are nice - and I always stop in front of it and enjoy the warm air blowing on me when I'm walking thru the room.


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## Shooter (Nov 3, 2008)

DiggerJim said:
			
		

> natnyer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree entirely.  My CB1200i comes on at 69 and shuts down at 74 all winter long.  And we arent using a huge amount of pellets.  Good isulation pays.

Here in northern lower michigan you just want to stay nice and warm.


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## Xena (Nov 3, 2008)

natnyer said:
			
		

> I don't think there is any
> reason to keep a house above 65 degrees in the winter.



Skrew that. Maybe 65 is good for you but not for me.  I'm comfy at 72F.
I can afford to buy enough pellets to keep my home at that temp
throughout the winter so why be cold when I don't have to.

Staying OT. I don't know how much I'll save using pellets this season.
Will let ya know in the Spring when all is said and done.


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## trogers (Nov 3, 2008)

natnyer said:
			
		

> I don't think there is any reason to keep a house above 65 degrees in the winter. Wear a sweatshirt sweat pants or a coat if you have to save money and make a middle east shiek wonder whos paying for his next ferrari. Buy pellets .



I love this post!  Don't you get it?  The very fact that you are saying that there is no reason to keep the thermostat above 65, or that we should be wearing a coat in our homes is exactly the type of talk that gives the shieks comfort.  I'll buy my North American fuel (my pellets are Canadian this year) and keep my temp at what *I* think is comfortable...and, not have my comfort dicatetd by the shiek!

By the way, was it hard walking uphill both ways to school?


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## drtnshtr (Nov 3, 2008)

I guess I was very lucky when starting my pellet stove journey..I bought my Whitfield last year for $150 from a co-worker who was swicthing to propane because he couldnt get the whitfield working. After hooking up one of the wires on the circuit boards that came loose I had a perfectly good pellet stove for $150  Its in the mail living room of my 1400 sq ft cape cod and keeps the 1st floor 75-80 degrees while the 2nd floor is 65-67 degrees....I also have a VC reliance for my finished basement that I just picked up (for $250) this summer from an elderly lady down the road that just moved into a house that already had the stove in it. She couldnt carry the pellet bags...I guess my point is I do not have much $$$ in start up with pellets and I heated last winter with nothing but pellets. I used 3 tons but we like it very warm in the house. I did not use any oil what so ever! Our oil prices were $2.68 here last week and I think I will wait to see if they go a little lower before buying some. I keep the oil ready for back up if we go away and cannot tend the stove. One advantage in buying pellets is you do not have a minimum amount you have to buy like OIL and Propane. You can go in and buy 1 bag or 10 bags depending on what you can afford. If pellet and oil prices skyrocket I have a wood stove and free supply of wood as long as I can cut it. I think even if OIL was cheaper than pellets I would still burn pellets because it reduces our depency on foreign oil and also I feel I can keep my house warmer with the pellets.


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## webbie (Nov 3, 2008)

Bantam said:
			
		

> The previous owner of my house went through 1,250 gallons of oil/year.
> The first year we lived there I bought a programable thermostat.....950 gallons
> Second year we used............. 880 gallons
> Third year Installed new water boiler(Buderus)................820 gallons
> ...



Great post!
It shows the accuracy of figuring on about 100 gallons per ton....all things being equal.

For most people that means Fuel is now quite a bit cheaper than pellets (pellets are $320 here, and fuel oil $2.40)......and that is without the cost of the stove, service, labor, etc.

Against LP or Electric, pellets are still going to save - and many people will burn them in any case because they already have them, etc.

But, personally, I would not burn pellets at $300 plus except as recreation and a little local warmth. From a economic perspective...and that is what drives most people, it is just not worth it!


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## mullet (Nov 3, 2008)

Propane now in my area is 3.75 a gallon and my house of 2,500 Sqft would use about 110 to 135 gallons a month depending, sooooooo that's about $412.50 to $506.00 a month. I currently use about 3 tons a year @ $260.00 a ton which = $780.00. Even if I used 4 tons which is $1040.00 its still save a lot with my pellet stove not to mention the house is FINALLY WARM (71 downstairs 74 upstairs)  compared to propane.

So lets just say:

Propane + 6 months @ low  $412.00x6 = $2472.00 / @ high $506.00x6= $3036.00
Pellets = 6 months @ high = $1040.00

Savings = $1432.00 to $1996.00 + warmer house = priceless!


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## Panhandler (Nov 3, 2008)

I now use forced air natural gas as a backup. In the first quarter of this year I was paying $11.897 per MCF (thousand cubic ft.), 2nd quarter @ $12.827 MCF, 3rd quarter @ $14.997 MCF.  Now it is going up 32%. I keep the thermostat for furnace on 50 in case of stove failure and have a gas fireplace (thermostaticaly controlled)  in case of power failure. I have no plans to go to gas full time, ever. Comfort level with pellet heat is much better than gas and less drafty. The fuel cost calculator uses "cost per therm" for natural gas. How does this convert to MCF?


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## slheinlein (Nov 3, 2008)

Assuming I would have used the same amount of propane last year as prior years, I saved $800 last year using pellets vs. propane.  At this rate, it will take my 5 years to recoup my investment.  however, I now have a warmer house, fire going at all times and can spend time on this forum.  What more can I ask for??


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## in-control (Nov 3, 2008)

I think that this is different for each person's situation but like bantam demonstrates.  The only real way to do the analysis is to compare your current use against your past.  I use about 900 gallons of fuel oil/year.  If I can cut that in half - take the 450 gallons and x times my cost/oil $3.46 or $1557.  Then subtract my cost of pellets(plus delivery) $880 and increase in electricity usage, say $100/season.  I get a cost savings of $557, my ROI will be ~ 9years.


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## DiggerJim (Nov 4, 2008)

Panhandler said:
			
		

> I now use forced air natural gas as a backup. In the first quarter of this year I was paying $11.897 per MCF (thousand cubic ft.), 2nd quarter @ $12.827 MCF, 3rd quarter @ $14.997 MCF.  Now it is going up 32%. I keep the thermostat for furnace on 50 in case of stove failure and have a gas fireplace (thermostaticaly controlled)  in case of power failure. I have no plans to go to gas full time, ever. Comfort level with pellet heat is much better than gas and less drafty. The fuel cost calculator uses "cost per therm" for natural gas. How does this convert to MCF?


1 therm = 100,000 BTU. To get MCF from Therms, multiply by 0.0976 or to get Therms from MCF, multiply the MCFs by 10.25 

BTW, to calculate the approximate cost/gal of fuel oil in comparison to MCFs, multiply by 0.1366 so your $14.997 natural gas is equivalent to oil at $2.048 per gallon.


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