# Synthetic oil in Splitters engine?



## Sean McGillicuddy (Feb 26, 2013)

What is a good Synthetic oil to run in my Splitters engine?
I do have a small weep/crack in the bottom of case.

Thanks
Sean


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## Bret Hart (Feb 26, 2013)

I run Amsoil in everything I own and the fleet I manage as well, except during break in. The only exception is the 2 cycle oil I mix into the diesel for my truck. That gets Walmarts cheapest TC-W3.


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## Jags (Feb 26, 2013)

Any of it should do the trick.  Most splitter motors don't really get many hours on them.  For an average homeowner, I would venture a guess at about 15 hrs per year.  Maybe 20.


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## lukem (Feb 26, 2013)

I run Rotella T6 5W-40 in just about all my OPE anymore.  You can get a gallon jug at Wally World for $20.


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## TreePointer (Feb 26, 2013)

Many of my small engines specify synthetic 5W-30 in their manuals for the widest range of operating temperatures. I get Mobil1 5W-30 when it's on sale.

Here's the recommendation excerpted from the Briggs & Stratton manual that came with my 2009 Huskee splitter:


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## Machria (Feb 26, 2013)

Bret Hart said:


> I run Amsoil in everything I own and the fleet I manage as well, except during break in. The only exception is the 2 cycle oil I mix into the diesel for my truck. That gets Walmarts cheapest TC-W3.


 
2 cycle diesel?   That you have to add oil to?   Never heard of such a thing....


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## JustWood (Feb 26, 2013)

Machria said:


> 2 cycle diesel? That you have to add oil to? Never heard of such a thing....


You don't have too but it helps lube the pump and engine internals . This modern day low sulpher diesel is crap.
I run canola in all my diesels.
OP- My experience with synthetics is if you have a leak now it will become worse when you switch to synthetic. I've tried synthetics in a few pieces of equipment I own and was not impressed with results.


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## MofoG23 (Feb 26, 2013)

Mobil 1 5-30 goes into all of my small engines, including the splitter.


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## Jack Fate (Feb 26, 2013)

LEES WOOD-CO said:


> You don't have too but it helps lube the pump and engine internals . This modern day low sulpher diesel is crap.
> I run canola in all my diesels.
> OP- My experience with synthetics is if you have a leak now it will become worse when you switch to synthetic. I've tried synthetics in a few pieces of equipment I own and was not impressed with results.




Total agreement on syn making leaks worse. Was gonna say 5-30 Mobil one otherwise .


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Feb 26, 2013)

So before I switch to Synthetic, should I add some mystery oil, and then change it after it's run hot?


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## fabsroman (Feb 26, 2013)

LEES WOOD-CO said:


> You don't have too but it helps lube the pump and engine internals . This modern day low sulpher diesel is crap.
> I run canola in all my diesels.
> OP- My experience with synthetics is if you have a leak now it will become worse when you switch to synthetic. I've tried synthetics in a few pieces of equipment I own and was not impressed with results.


 
Well, the "leak" will leak more with synthetics because they are designed to be of the same molecule size and move about more freely (i.e., lube better). Problem is that they will also move through a crack or bad seal just as freely. If the loss of synthetic ends up being significant, it isn't because the crack got bigger, just that the oil goes through it easier.


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## MasterMech (Feb 26, 2013)

Fabs is right.  Synthetic will flow through a crack or bad seal faster.  Just one of many things it does better than dino oil. 

AMSOIL ASE 10W30 Synthetic in everything (4-cycle) I own, Saber Professional for all the 2-cycles.

If your case is cracked Sean, you gotta ask, is the engine worth the extra $$ for synthetic? I'd think about draining the existing oil, patching up that crack, and then go synthetic.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Feb 27, 2013)

Its not bad just a little weeping once in a while.
It's like when you burned oil in the old engines, you filled the oil and checked the gas!!
Makes you check the level more often which is good!


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## smokinj (Feb 27, 2013)

I run royal purple .


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## Jags (Feb 27, 2013)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> So before I switch to Synthetic, should I add some mystery oil, and then change it after it's run hot?


 
No need to do this.  Drain the dino squeezin's and pour in whatever oil you want.  Synthetic or otherwise.  At the hours used, that engine will probably last 20 years without an oil change.


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## Machria (Feb 27, 2013)

Your supposed to change the oil?


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## Jags (Feb 27, 2013)

Machria said:


> Your supposed to change the oil?


 
Thats what I hear.


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## basod (Feb 27, 2013)

If you add a quart over the year isn't that just like changing it?


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## Valhalla (Feb 27, 2013)

Synthetic is a superior lubricant. Over the lifetime of most any engine ownership, it will extend the service life of the motor.


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## KodiakII (Feb 27, 2013)

The manager of our local TSC store (aka *T*his *S*tuff's *C*hinese) told me when I was looking at one of their splitters to run it normally for 2 hours and do an oil change, run it for 8 hours and do another this time with synthetic. Guess the reasoning is to limit the exposure of oil borne filings and have it pretty much broke in before going to the super slippery stuff.


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## nate379 (Feb 27, 2013)

I used to do that as well but I've found that it's too thick for winter use. It was bad enough in my garden tractor that the govener wouldn't work and it would rev the engine to the moon till the oil warmed up a bit. Exactly what I wanted... that 20hp Briggs spinnign to 10 grand at -25*



lukem said:


> I run Rotella T6 5W-40 in just about all my OPE anymore. You can get a gallon jug at Wally World for $20.


 
For small engines I generally don't get fussy.  Oil level is ok and not 15 years old, good enough for me.


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## lukem (Feb 27, 2013)

-25 and I have to worry more about the operator functioning than the equipment.


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## nate379 (Feb 27, 2013)

Eh, just means it's time to get the winter coat out of the closet.



lukem said:


> -25 and I have to worry more about the operator functioning than the equipment.


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## fabsroman (Feb 27, 2013)

nate379 said:


> I used to do that as well but I've found that it's too thick for winter use. It was bad enough in my garden tractor that the govener wouldn't work and it would rev the engine to the moon till the oil warmed up a bit. Exactly what I wanted... that 20hp Briggs spinnign to 10 grand at -25*
> 
> 
> 
> For small engines I generally don't get fussy. Oil level is ok and not 15 years old, good enough for me.


 
What oil do you use for winter use then? A zero weight like 0w-30? Had no idea that Rotella was synthetic. Me, I pretty much use Mobil 1 in everything. F350, Mustang, Taurus, Focus, John Deere Z445, and what little I need in the splitter. Don't even have conventional oil in the garage anywhere. For the 2 stroke stuff, I use Stihl HP Ultra but am now thinking about buying a gallon of that stuff and being done with it for the next 20 years.


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## lukem (Feb 27, 2013)

T6 is the syn version.


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## MasterMech (Feb 27, 2013)

BTW: 1 gallon of Stihl HP Ultra will run you close to $200 bucks retail. 

Love the stuff tho, ever read the bottle?  It pretty much says you could use it for salad dressing with no ill effects.


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## fabsroman (Feb 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> T6 is the syn version.


 
Yeah, I looked it up before I posted that last one. Had no idea. Thought Rotella was a food. Pretty much walk into Wal-Mart with blinders on in the oil section. Just need to find the weight of the Mobil one I need and don't even pay attention to the rest of the stuff on the shelf. Found 4 gallons of turbo diesel specific Mobil 1  last night. The teller thought I was nuts when the amount came out to $110.


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## MasterMech (Feb 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, I looked it up before I posted that last one. Had no idea. Thought Rotella was a food. Pretty much walk into Wal-Mart with blinders on in the oil section. Just need to find the weight of the Mobil one I need and don't even pay attention to the rest of the stuff on the shelf. Found 4 gallons of turbo diesel specific Mobil 1 last night. The teller thought I was nuts when the amount came out to $110.


Is that for a 7.3L?  Monster pan on those, 15qts per dump IIRC.


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## fabsroman (Feb 27, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Is that for a 7.3L? Monster pan on those, 15qts per dump IIRC.


 
I actually have the 6.0l turbo diesel, but it is still 15 quarts. Fills up the entire drain pan. Cannot wait until I get a lift and can use a drum for all this oil.

Changing the coolant is a nightmare. That is gallons upon gallons of coolant.


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## nate379 (Feb 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> What oil do you use for winter use then? A zero weight like 0w-30? Had no idea that Rotella was synthetic. Me, I pretty much use Mobil 1 in everything. F350, Mustang, Taurus, Focus, John Deere Z445, and what little I need in the splitter. Don't even have conventional oil in the garage anywhere. For the 2 stroke stuff, I use Stihl HP Ultra but am now thinking about buying a gallon of that stuff and being done with it for the next 20 years.



5w-30

The 5w-40 Rotella is synthetic, 15w-40 isn't.


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## bioman (Feb 27, 2013)

Just put mobile 1 10w30 in a new gx 630. have full confidence in the oil for this application. If it blows up I'll let ya know for sure !


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## simple.serf (Feb 27, 2013)

The only engines I use synthetic in is my MEP-002a Genset and a crappy Sears generator with Techumseh engine. The MEP has a 2 cylinder air cooled diesel with an oil cooler and those engines are known for being rough on oil. The techumseh is a POS, but I got it for free and would like to do everything in my power to keep the rod from ventilating the block. Everything else gets either Rotella (the other diesels) or Castrol (all gas engines). I usually find that the rest of the equipment fails or rusts out before the engine dies. I change the oil in the truck once every other month (I drive 30k miles a year), and the oil in offroad eqpt twice a year.

If you really want to run synthetic, get some 10w30 Mobil 1 and call it a day.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Feb 28, 2013)

TreePointer said:


>


This is great but then we have



simple.serf said:


> If you really want to run synthetic, get some 10w30 Mobil 1 and call it a day.


 
So now it's 5w30 or 10w30 ??????


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## fabsroman (Feb 28, 2013)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> This is great but then we have
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's 5w30 or 10w30 ??????


 
I would go with synthetic 5w-30 or 10w-30. Splitting hairs on this one for sure. Whatever I had in the garage would be going into the splitter's engine. Since you live in frigid Massachusetts, I would probably go with the 5w-30 synthetic. A lower weight oil when it is really cold. Also depends how much you will be running the splitter when it is really cold out. I hardly split anything when the weather is below 25 degrees, so the engine oil is never very cold.

With that said, synthetics are a lot less susceptible to cold temps. They don't get as thick as conventional motor oils when it gets cold out. Since I use 10w-30 Mobil 1 for my mower, I would probably use the same thing for the splitter and never think twice about it. Been using 5w-30 in my Taurus for years, but now they are recommending 5w-20. The car has 235,000 miles on it on what used to be the wrong oil.

The most important thing is changing the oil to get rid of the crap that is floating in it, especially on the small engines that do not have an oil filter.


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## MasterMech (Feb 28, 2013)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> This is great but then we have
> 
> 
> 
> So now it's 5w30 or 10w30 ??????


That chart is for one type of engine from one single engine manufacturer.  The recommendation will vary amongst the various engines and manufacturers.  Really want to know little something about what you pour out of those bottles?

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Cliff Notes:

0W-30, 5W30, 10W30, and 30wt all flow at similar rates at 100.(Deemed the typical operating temp of the oil.)
One manufacturer's 10W30 might be closer to another one's 5W30  than you think. 
More additives and less oil is a recipe for frequent oil changes.   And more money spent.
All synthetics are not created equal!  There are highly refined petroleum based oils out there (under big brand names) labeled as synthetic through a legal loophole.    Buyer beware.  The shelf at your local Wally World or parts store is usually _dominated_ by Group III "Synthetics".


I'm getting away from using oil certified to the latest API standards in my small engines.  The reason being for that is the formulas have moved to using less anti-wear additives.  You won't destroy a small engine running oil certified to SN but there will be more wear on the bearing surfaces and cam lobes over time.  That increased wear is deemed "acceptable" (by whom?) and may not be noticed by the vast majority of small-engine operators.  But this wrench-monkey has never been one to settle for "acceptable".    With a fleet of small engines around, none of which have roller valvetrains (like most modern cars do) and a truck with a big-block Chevy that also doesn't have a roller valvetrain, I look for an oil that will offer the best protection of these engines.  There is only 1 Group IV synthetic oil that I know of that offers that protection, and is formulated/marketed specifically for small-engine use.


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## fabsroman (Feb 28, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> That chart is for one type of engine from one single engine manufacturer. The recommendation will vary amongst the various engines and manufacturers. Really want to know little something about what you pour out of those bottles?
> 
> http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
> 
> ...


 
The suspense was killing me, so I had to read through the link you posted:

_As more and more large oil companies switched their "synthetic" motor oils to the less expensive/more profitable Group III (3) base stocks it has become much easier to identify which are PAO based true synthetic. Of the large oil companies, only Mobil 1 Extended Performance, as of this writing (12-16-2012), is still a PAO based true synthetic._

Don't know how long this has been the case though. Been using Mobil 1 in all my vehicles since 1989. Crazy thing is, I still have all those vehicles. Looks like I am going to need a gallon of Mobile 1 10w-30 Extended Performance for the small engines though. The "cheaper" stuff seems to be working in my vehicles, but don't really want to chance it on my small engines. Will have to keep "Extended Performance" in mind the next time I am at Wally World or the auto parts store.


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## MasterMech (Feb 28, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Don't know how long this has been the case though. Been using Mobil 1 in all my vehicles since 1989. Crazy thing is, I still have all those vehicles. Looks like I am going to need a gallon of Mobile 1 10w-30 Extended Performance for the small engines though. The "cheaper" stuff seems to be working in my vehicles, but don't really want to chance it on my small engines. Will have to keep "Extended Performance" in mind the next time I am at Wally World or the auto parts store.


 

Mobil 1 was originally a Group IV oil no? That is, until they started selling the EP version.

EP is worth it for the vehicles too. All the reasons you run synthetic should be the same ones that cause you to insist on a real Group IV PAO oil. I'm not afraid of extended drain intervals and you shouldn't be either.  (Hell, the _OEM specified_ drain interval on my wife's Terrain is over 10,000 miles on _dino_ oil. )


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## simple.serf (Feb 28, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> I would go with synthetic 5w-30 or 10w-30. Splitting hairs on this one for sure.
> 
> With that said, synthetics are a lot less susceptible to cold temps.
> 
> Been using 5w-30 in my Taurus for years, but now they are recommending 5w-20. The car has 235,000 miles on it on what used to be the wrong oil.


 
Sorry for the edit, but these are the comments I want to make:

1. It's a small engine. You still should change the oil every 25 hrs (for a B&S, or whatever the manuf. recommends) because there usually isn't any oil filtration on this size engine.

2. It's a small engine. As I said in my post, the rest of the machine usually craps out before the engine. This is one of those (rare) cases where I take the whatever approach. It will be fine with either 5w30 or 10w30 synthetic. The two splitters I use have been running for 15 years on Dino oil (straight 30wt) and splitting about 20 cord apiece every year...and that's with aluminium block flathead briggs engines on both.

 On a side note: The 5w20 change on the taurus (assuming you have the 3.0 vulcan) came not because of  an engineering change to the engine, but because of needing to reduce friction and meet better MPG requirements. My 3.0 vulcan and my 4.2 essex were both labelled this way, despite earlier versions of the same engines being labelled differently. Both families were getting older and Ford needed to do everything in it's power to get a few more years out of them. They seem to run fine with either, with some people believing that the thinner oil helps to keep the CPS gear from failing. In my opinion, it doesn't matter- they fail with either viscosity oil.

...Sorry for getting off track. I'm a little out of it today.


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## fabsroman (Feb 28, 2013)

simple.serf said:


> Sorry for the edit, but these are the comments I want to make:
> 
> 1. It's a small engine. You still should change the oil every 25 hrs (for a B&S, or whatever the manuf. recommends) because there usually isn't any oil filtration on this size engine.
> 
> ...


 
Well, you noticed the part about my Taurus, which does have the Vulcan engine, but either you missed this:

The most important thing is changing the oil to get rid of the crap that is floating in it, especially on the small engines that do not have an oil filter.

Or you are just reinforcing it.


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## simple.serf (Feb 28, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Well, you noticed the part about my Taurus, which does have the Vulcan engine, but either you missed this:
> 
> The most important thing is changing the oil to get rid of the crap that is floating in it, especially on the small engines that do not have an oil filter.
> 
> Or you are just reinforcing it.


 
 Poor attempt to reinforce, Though the taurus thing has more to do with my mind being all over the place today- 4 hrs of sleep a night this week isn't working out so good.


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## fabsroman (Feb 28, 2013)

simple.serf said:


> Poor attempt to reinforce, Though the taurus thing has more to do with my mind being all over the place today- 4 hrs of sleep a night this week isn't working out so good.


 
Sleep isn't working out well for me either, so I feel your pain. You a tax preparer like me? I can hardly see straight right now and still have about 45 days to go.


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## simple.serf (Mar 1, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Sleep isn't working out well for me either, so I feel your pain. You a tax preparer like me? I can hardly see straight right now and still have about 45 days to go.


 
Nope, been doing 12 hrs a day at my FT job, keeping our farm running, and dealing with the first maple run of the season. Though, that reminds me, I need to do my taxes...


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## nate379 (Mar 1, 2013)

I use a 5 gal pail.  Truck is tall enough it fits under the oil pan without trouble.



fabsroman said:


> I actually have the 6.0l turbo diesel, but it is still 15 quarts. Fills up the entire drain pan. Cannot wait until I get a lift and can use a drum for all this oil.
> 
> Changing the coolant is a nightmare. That is gallons upon gallons of coolant.


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## charly (Mar 1, 2013)

Amsoil Diesel 5w-30 series 3000 in everything. Polaris Crew gets 0W-40 amsoil.


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## nate379 (Mar 2, 2013)

What diesel takes 5w-30?


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## charly (Mar 2, 2013)

nate379 said:


> What diesel takes 5w-30?


I run it in my Kubota tractor and my Dodge Cummins.. It's their preferred amsoil diesel over their 15-40w..better shear ability , etc... It's not thickness of oil, it's all about film strength,,, oils ability to keep two metals apart..I learned that as a Harley tech years ago out in Milwaukee...Days of the 60 weight oil are over.. It's all about film strength...
PDF]
*Series 3000 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil*

Adobe PDF
*Series* *3000* *5W-30* Synthetic Heavy Duty *Diesel* Oil Maximum Fuel Economy and Excellent Anti-Wear Protection *AMSOIL* *Series* *3000* *5W-30* Synthetic Heavy Duty *Diesel* Oil
www.*amsoil.com*/lit/databulletins/g1301.pdf


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## BrotherBart (Mar 2, 2013)

Mobil 1. No other oil will do. My Exxon/Mobil dividend checks tells me so.

I have intended to change the oil in my splitter. Every year since 1988. Gotta do that someday. That Walmart 30W oil added every once in a while seems to be doing fine. Original hydraulic fluid too.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 2, 2013)

Synthetic oil story. I used to manage a truck leasing company. We used RPM Delo in all of the Cummins and Detroit diesels. One customer asked about Mobil 1 when it came out. We told him not to worry about it. Oil and engine maintenance were part of his lease.

A few weeks later he came into my office and told me his story. He decided we were full of it and he changed the oil in one of their trucks and used Mobil 1. At five bucks a quart in 1973 dollars. On the way back to Dallas from Houston an oil line busted and dumped something like 14 gallons on the highway.

We never heard him talk about synthetics again.


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## ArsenalDon (Mar 3, 2013)

Machria said:


> Your supposed to change the oil?


Engines have oil? JK


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## MasterMech (Mar 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Synthetic oil story. I used to manage a truck leasing company. We used RPM Delo in all of the Cummins and Detroit diesels. One customer asked about Mobil 1 when it came out. We told him not to worry about it. Oil and engine maintenance were part of his lease.
> 
> A few weeks later he came into my office and told me his story. He decided we were full of it and he changed the oil in one of their trucks and used Mobil 1. At five bucks a quart in 1973 dollars. On the way back to Dallas from Houston an oil line busted and dumped something like 14 gallons on the highway.
> 
> We never heard him talk about synthetics again.


So are you saying that synthetics caused that oil line to break or just bad karma from ignoring your advice?


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## simple.serf (Mar 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Synthetic oil story. I used to manage a truck leasing company. We used RPM Delo in all of the Cummins and Detroit diesels. One customer asked about Mobil 1 when it came out. We told him not to worry about it. Oil and engine maintenance were part of his lease.
> 
> A few weeks later he came into my office and told me his story. He decided we were full of it and he changed the oil in one of their trucks and used Mobil 1. At five bucks a quart in 1973 dollars. On the way back to Dallas from Houston an oil line busted and dumped something like 14 gallons on the highway.
> 
> We never heard him talk about synthetics again.


 


As I said, I can only make myself run it in harder to replace stuff. Hell, I still have engines that I run Non-detergent in. (open crankcase total loss systems).


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## MasterMech (Mar 3, 2013)

simple.serf said:


> (open crankcase total loss systems)


 
Hit and miss?


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## charly (Mar 3, 2013)

For 20 years I've had no issues running Amsoil, none.  Very Happy.. I use their grease, etc, with all great results... I love their EA air filters,,, like a Cat,,, just vacuum them off and you good to go again.  Test results have shown better air flow the K&N filters and no oily mess to deal with or the cleaning solution that you have to use with the K&N air fliters..  Nice thing,,, when it's below zero , things start and are lubed..


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## charly (Mar 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> So are you saying that synthetics caused that oil line to break or just bad karma from ignoring your advice?


Yes, that synthetic oil just wrecks everything. All my stuff seized up, wow big mistake!


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## MasterMech (Mar 3, 2013)

charly said:


> Yes, that synthetic oil just wrecks everything. All my stuff seized up, wow big mistake!


Still waiting for all my equipment and vehicles to self-destruct.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> So are you saying that synthetics caused that oil line to break or just bad karma from ignoring your advice?


 

Karma for monkeying with our engine.


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## simple.serf (Mar 4, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Hit and miss?


 
Yup. All 17 of them.


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## MasterMech (Mar 4, 2013)

simple.serf said:


> Yup. All 17 of them.


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## Highbeam (Mar 5, 2013)

nate379 said:


> I use a 5 gal pail. Truck is tall enough it fits under the oil pan without trouble.


 
I also slide a 5 gallon bucket under my stock height, stock tires, F350 to change the oil in the 7.3 diesel.

T6 5-40 btw.


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## simple.serf (Mar 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


Not to go off topic, but...






There's a few more that stayed home too.  The funny part is that I know a few guys who run synthetic in these too.  Gets expensive really fast.


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## MasterMech (Mar 6, 2013)

simple.serf said:


> Not to go off topic, but...
> 
> 
> There's a few more that stayed home too.  The funny part is that I know a few guys who run synthetic in these too. Gets expensive really fast.


 
Somewhere there are a bunch of pics of me as a teen manning the engine show at our county fair.  Those of us that have been to the Dutchess County Fair know that engine display is pretty big.

Thanks for posting those.


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