# Just Bought an 800 Watt Harbor Freight Generator



## velvetfoot (Dec 24, 2010)

http://www.harborfreight.com/engine...s-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html







I had a coupon for a hundred bucks.

It got good reviews on the HF website, and it looks like a winner to me so far as well.  I replaced the spark plug with an NGK, and maybe it ran a little smoother.  Compared to the 2 other generators I have, it is very quiet.  

Other than the 'new toy' factor, I figure I'll be more inclined to grab this rather than dragging the larger ones out in a short outage like we had the other night and it could run small electric tools remotely.  Plus this one really sips the (2 stroke) fuel.  Based on a steady state reading I took yesterday of about 270 watts, it should run the oil boiler as well.  I'll be checking what else it could potentially run (I know the well pump is out!).  If it could run the fridge, that could be a bonus.  I had the insert fan on and watched TV at the same time for a while last night.  I have a kill-a-watt meter and that was less than 300 watts.

Anyway, so far, so good.


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## Highbeam (Dec 24, 2010)

Amazing that they use 2strokes for this. Does it smoke at all?


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## velvetfoot (Dec 25, 2010)

Not that I've noticed.  Maybe a little on startup.  Although, it was dark.  Never have to worry about running low on oil though.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 25, 2010)

I picked up this little genset at the Aldi grocery store the other day for two hundred bucks. Sears sells it for three fifty. More portable and sips gas compared to my five thousand watt one. It will handle the necessities and I will just fire the other one as needed.

http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/offers/58_12183_ENU_HTML.htm

I was looking at the one you bought for awhile. It should be really handy for you.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 25, 2010)

That's a great value.  I thought Aldi only sold food.
It was a kick to carry it by one hand through the house and out to the porch (snow on walk).


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## BrotherBart (Dec 25, 2010)

Yeah one handed carry would be nice. At a hundred pounds I can't do that with mine. But I happened to have one of those convertible cheapo hand trucks in the garage and just bolted a board on it and tied the genset down with zip ties. Drags around real easy that way. On the way to town to pick up some material to build a little shed for it I stopped for bread and milk at another store. They were just un-crating some Christmas stuff and, viola, there was the perfect sized shed for the gennie pre-built. I am starting to like grocery stores.  :lol:


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## velvetfoot (Dec 25, 2010)

As long as Home Depot doesn't start selling food.


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## btuser (Dec 25, 2010)

I had one of these for about 5 years.   Noisy, stinky, and perfect for 90% of the time when I needed to run a corded tool ( like a sawzall or right angle drill) and didn't have power.  Sooo much lighter than my 4000k genset.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 26, 2010)

I wish I'd have had it this summer when I dragged the 5k generator out to the end of the long driveway on a hand truck multiple times to power a sawzall.


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## semipro (Dec 26, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Amazing that they use 2strokes for this. Does it smoke at all?



2nd that.  There are some lightweight 4 stroke engines available now for weed wackers and such.  I'm surprised they used a 2 stroke for this application and that its still even legal.


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## maverick06 (Dec 26, 2010)

awesome, good for you. I have a 2000 watt inverter generator, so i cant justify that, but it looks great! 

Chanch out your fridge withthe kill-a-watt. I did with mine and running it was something like 130 or 180 watts, i forget! Of course if you read on the internet about startup loads of the for the fridge they claim to be 2000 watts, but I dont know how accutate that is. I have also read that startup is about 2.5 - 3 times the running load. 

Point being, it might be possible to run the fridge... I dont know.... 

congrats on the buy! new toys are fun. Keep us posted with out it runs.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 26, 2010)

I played with my new toy today.
In trying to see whether it would run the oil boiler, I thought it would be worthwhile (in retrospect now, doubtful) to make the boiler a plug in device, and to add a service switch, which I did.  So I ran an extension cord from the porch where the genny was down to the basement and plugged in the boiler.  The cord had to go through a double hung window that I sealed with foam backer rod.  The circulator motors made funny noises as well as the burner motor, but it heated the house. going several on-off cycles without tripping.  The frequency was roughly 60 hz and power was 218 watts, steady state.  As I said before, it runs the insert fan, TV, some compact flourescent lamps.  Thing is, cables had to be run to these things.

To summarize, it's nice that it can run for a long time on little fuel, but those cords are a hassle and those funny motor noises made me nervous.

I'm thinking maybe run the 5kW generator through the transfer switch, using more fuel but avoiding the cord hassle.  Maybe I'll put some wheels on it.
Or, fashion a plug to plug the little genny into the 30 amp inlet box.  I wonder if it'd be possible to power both legs with 120 so that all the 120 circuits work.  All in all, just too much work.


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## Highbeam (Dec 27, 2010)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> fashion a plug to plug the little genny into the 30 amp inlet box.  I wonder if it'd be possible to power both legs with 120 so that all the 120 circuits work. .



I know exactly what you're saying here. Seems that for long term power outages you don't want a big 5000 watt genset running. A smaller 2000 watt unit would be plenty for most things, however, most of these are only 120 volt gensets and not proper to backfeed the house panel. I found a 3500 watt Champion with 220 output and it works great but there weren't many small watt 220 gensets to choose from. 15+ hours runtime at mroe than 50% on the 5 gallon tank tested on December 18th, dang thing sips fuel. 

I understand that the 220 appliances wouldn't work, actually they wouldn't even know they had power, but can both phases of the panel be fed 120 from teh same phase? I can easily make the plug but am worried about safety and damage. 

The startup surge on a fridge is pretty big and the occasional defrost cycle is also an energy hog. If the genset can't provide enough juice for the startup surge then what happens is that the fridge sort of sits there and hums. It oddly doesn't seem to pop breakers. 

Despite perfect voltage and frequency, my motors always hum a bit when running under genset power. Must be the "dirty" power.


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## maverick06 (Dec 27, 2010)

they hum, and buzz and thats no good. 

If the load overloads the generator, it should just shut it down. If it buzzes, i would be afraid, no reason to break my refrigerator. 

Thats why I have a inverter generator, its a perfect sine wave. 


A inverter generator (at lleast the honda and honeywell) make a power curve like this:





but a regular generator (this one was from costco)





The bottom one is good enough for a lot of things, but I would be careful with using it and electronics.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 28, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I picked up this little genset at the Aldi grocery store the other day for two hundred bucks. Sears sells it for three fifty. More portable and sips gas compared to my five thousand watt one. It will handle the necessities and I will just fire the other one as needed.
> 
> http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/offers/58_12183_ENU_HTML.htm
> 
> I was looking at the one you bought for awhile. It should be really handy for you.


 I had the smaller version of that Kingcraft, 2250 I believe, & was the nicest generator I ever owned. I was told they are Honda copies & some you can just put Honda parts in, Randy


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## BrotherBart (Dec 28, 2010)

Singed Eyebrows said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
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Yeah the engine on mine is an exact copy of my two Honda GX200 engines. Which was a good thing because I had a problem the "tech" on the phone couldn't figure out. I hung up and put him out of his grief and figured it out. It was leaking oil. I stood almost on my head and found the PCV hose that wasn't connected to the valve cover. Viola. No more pressure buildup in the crankcase and no more oil leak.

The guy told me that the store wouldn't take it back since it had had gas and oil in it. The next time I was in the store I asked the cashier and she said "Honey if you want to bring the thing back I will give you your money back. Let'em deal will Aldi." And grinned from ear to ear.  :lol:


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2010)

maverick06 said:
			
		

> they hum, and buzz and thats no good.
> 
> If the load overloads the generator, it should just shut it down. If it buzzes, i would be afraid, no reason to break my refrigerator.
> 
> ...



Nice waveforms but can you even get an inverter 220 volt genset? I've seen scopes of the champion gensets that look almost as good as the Hondas. Figure, there's a rotor spinning in there with magnets so it must be pretty smooth. The noise must be from the brushes scraping along.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 28, 2010)

It is kind of baffling why a generator would produce the choppy second picture. I can understand a modified sine wave inverter doing this, the generator rotor should cut the flux in a pretty controlled manner though./ I believe the big Honda inverter genset is 220v, Randy


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## Later (Dec 28, 2010)

Singed Eyebrows said:
			
		

> It is kind of baffling why a generator would produce the choppy second picture. I can understand a modified sine wave inverter doing this, the generator rotor should cut the flux in a pretty controlled manner though./ I believe the big Honda inverter genset is 220v, Randy



Poor windings and skimping on the design and materials used in the stator/rotor. The big Honda inverter certainly is pricey.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 28, 2010)

Retired Guy said:
			
		

> Singed Eyebrows said:
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 Thanks, I have a lot to learn on electrics. The big Honda is half the price of a gasser!, Randy


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## maverick06 (Dec 29, 2010)

I did a lot of research before buying mine.... in my price bracket there was no 220v inverter genset... maybe not at all, not sure.  I wanted to be able to power my tv, computer, tivo, fridg, etc (the fridge has all sorts of electronics).   I assume the dirty power is just do to undersized equipment, jumping brushes, govoner adjustment of the engine and taking and unloading loads. I figure it is inherent to small generators, and that is why they sell inverter generators. now to mention they are more efficient and quieter. 

I heard a lot of stories and buzzing power and problems associated with regular generators (and a few from this type of inverter generator too).  For me I did not want to be worried about what I plug into my generator. With this I am not worried. 

Figure out what you need the generator to do, find the generator you think is right, read your reviews. You cant go bad that way. You can find osciliscope readings for most any generator on the internet, you just have to look. 

Rick


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2010)

You were right Maverick, I was able to find scope outputs for my champion genset as well as a more typical other brand genset. Seems the Champions are spec'd at less than 4% total harmonic distortion which is quite good. Not as good as the inverters but for 250$ and a honda clone engine I can't complain.


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2010)

Whoa, the smallest Yamaha 220 volt inverter genset is a 6300 watt model at, get this, $6159. Before we get all excited about that clean Honda sine wave perhpas we should see what the grid power looks like. They don't use inverters.


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## Wooddust (Dec 29, 2010)

Regardless what you do anything from HF is garbage.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, I don't think my 800 watt generator from Harbor Freight is garbage.


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2010)

I happen to really really like my wood cart from HF. Sorry wooddust, that is an ignorant statement. They sell lots of garbage but lots of great items as well. Perhaps a wiser statement is, " you get what you pay for"?


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## Wooddust (Dec 29, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I happen to really really like my wood cart from HF. Sorry wooddust, that is an ignorant statement. They sell lots of garbage but lots of great items as well. Perhaps a wiser statement is, " you get what you pay for"?



Excuse me for being too curt. Most stuff sold by HF is garbage? A lot of HF stuff is garbage? A rare thing HF sells is lasting quality?


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## Later (Dec 29, 2010)

If I need a tool day in and day out Harbor Freight is out. But for a specialized tool, like a chassis punch that I need for one hole, their tools fill the bill. 

I've been looking at that 800 W generator for a while and think it would be ideal as a source of power for my furnace in a once in 10 year emergency.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 29, 2010)

I've found web sites devoted to identifying good and bad HF products.


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## Mcbride (Dec 29, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Whoa, the smallest Yamaha 220 volt inverter genset is a 6300 watt model at, get this, $6159. Before we get all excited about that clean Honda sine wave perhpas we should see what the grid power looks like. They don't use inverters.



I would guess it depends on the power company in question.
Here in BC where I live, we have just BC Hydro, and its about on par with the cleanliness of my Champion, and smaller honda.
The honda is a good unit, but far too small to power much, or even just for the motorhome.
It can barely start the AC, and heaven forbid you want to run lights, water pump, fridge on ac power, microwave, TV, etc.
My Champion will run several other items, and then I flick on the AC switch, and it starts up instantly.
I researched a fair amount, and borrowed a friends Champion genset for a 3 day camping trip to try it.
Great unit, and reasonably priced to.
The computers, fridge, AC and everything else work perfectly with the Champion, be it in my home or camping in the motorhome.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 30, 2010)

I thought the fuel economy would be attractive.  Initially I was just thinking of something to run the insert fan during a short outage like we had the other night.  I have a 7500 w genny to power the deep well pump, but, especially during big outage, the gas stations don't have their genny's working for a day or so.  A unit that sips fuel could be useful.  I also thought it would be easier to set up for a short duration outage, but with running all those wires, I'm not so sure.  It's nice for portable power-quite easy to carry with one hand-put it in the trunk, etc.  Plus, it's cute.


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## maverick06 (Dec 30, 2010)

If you want to really dive into the details of how good power is between high quality generators, this is a interesting read: http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html

Nothing will beat outlet power, in a 1st world nation. Of course, you can provide the best you can, but what can your electronics tolerate? I know my cheap inverter puts out a square wave, and the blower on my insert hates it. I also kow that me inverter generater puts out a sine wave, and everything behaves properly with it attached.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks for the awesome link. 
I got to the part where it says something like not all inverter generators are equal.


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 1, 2011)

maverick06 said:
			
		

> If you want to really dive into the details of how good power is between high quality generators, this is a interesting read: http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html
> 
> Nothing will beat outlet power, in a 1st world nation. Of course, you can provide the best you can, but what can your electronics tolerate? I know my cheap inverter puts out a square wave, and the blower on my insert hates it. I also kow that me inverter generater puts out a sine wave, and everything behaves properly with it attached.



Wow thats a good link! I've tried to explain the differences between generators many times but that link has everything in it (albiet a bit much for most folks, but a great source for info).


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## velvetfoot (Jan 2, 2011)

I tried the HF 800 watt generator on the refrigerator yesterday and it work.  I ran it for at least half an hour with no problem.  It started up once, and my kill-a-watt showed 380 watts momentarily (but who knows if that was the peak) and a steady state at about 160 watts.  It didn't sound funny or anything.  So, except for the well pump which, as far as I can tell, needs the 7.5 kW generator, everything else can be run (not simulataneously) by this little genny.  Even after running for about an hour yesterday, loaded (using a heat gun at about 600 watts, and the reefer), it barely used any gas/oil mix.  It was very quiet compared to a larger conventional generator.  

Although the extension cords and switching loads are a hassle, the fuel economy (esp. early in an outage restoration period when gas could be scarce) and quiet, have potential.

In thinking about it, I don't see why adapting a plug for the power inlet to power both sides of the panel bus with the same 120 volt leg would be a problem.   Even if a 240 v breaker were accidentally energized, there would be no fault, just the same 120 v leg, although I don't know the effect of say, a dryer being turned on would be.  Maybe just not run?


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2011)

I imagine that since the difference between the two legs would be zero, that the 220 appliances would think the power is shut off. Most 220 appliances, like ovens, pull 120 off of one of the phases for the controls so the clock might work but the burners won't. The water heater won't even know the genset is running. 120-120=0


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## velvetfoot (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks.  I might give it a whirl.  Would have to cycle the reefer (sep. circuit) by breaker to keep things generally cool.  Maybe also dump garage load (trickle charger, garage door opener) and other unnecessary loads.  Can keep all outlets and light breakers energized, just have to be VERY careful about loading.  A downside is that I can't monitor the loading inside the house like with the kill-a-watt and extension cords.  I don't know if my older model TED (The Energy Detective, http://www.theenergydetective.com ) will work on only one leg, but it might, but that would require moving the current transformer clamps.  Maybe just plug in the kill a watt to the generator and go out there periodically.  Although, just plugging the kill a watt into an outlet in the house would provide voltage and frequency, which could help.

Just thinking out loud...


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## Danno77 (Jan 2, 2011)

I just got a Kill-A-Watt and the darned thing doesn't tell you max watts or max amps. I stared at it while I had the new fridge plugged in. When the fridge kicked on I saw the thing spike, but it all happened so fast I couldn't see the highest number. 

Most appliances will have an amperage listed and that is the absolute max the thing will draw, usually on startup. My fridge, for example, has a number that looks like it would be that spike I saw plus the lights on when the fridge and freezer door are open. The label tells me about 840 watts (converted from amps), but when it's running and the doors are shut it takes about 120 watts. Most of the time the fridge doesn't do anything, but that doesn't mean anything when you are trying to run one off of a generator.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 3, 2011)

True.  My label showed 5 amps.  I think my genny does 7 amps.  The electrical pdf on the mfr's website says something about the defrost cycle needing 450 watts, so that might be a factor too.


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2011)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> True.  My label showed 5 amps.  I think my genny does 7 amps.  The electrical pdf on the mfr's website says something about the defrost cycle needing 450 watts, so that might be a factor too.



Don't forget about the defrost heater. These frost free fridges and freezers have a big honking heating element that comes on every now and then. That has got to eat up some watts.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jan 5, 2011)

I have an older version of your generator.  It's worked just fine for me, but I only run a few lights at a time on it.  Sometimes they dim and flicker so I don't think the power generation is stable.  It's worked fine in a few pinches and I've used it to run my sawzall well away from any power source.   

When I use it at the cabin I back feed into the box.  

It's not a top of the line generator, but it does the job.  

Matt


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## velvetfoot (Jan 8, 2011)

I made an adapter cord so I could feed the 240 inlet with the 120 volts coming out of the generator.  I got a suitable locking 240 30 amp receptacle and jumpered the two hot legs so that 120 volts feeds both sides of the panel.  It seems to work.  I've had the 36" lcd tv on, as well as the insert fan, refrigerator and a light.  I figure to leave it on a while and see how it goes.
EDIT:  The refrig. might be a problem.  Will see.


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## maverick06 (Jan 11, 2011)

i wouldnt trust my lcd tv on a generator that causes lights to dim and flicker.... not worth the risk to watch tv for a few hours.... just my opinion


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## BrotherBart (Jan 11, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

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You got that right. My fridge runs 265 watts at 3.5 amps. When it kicks into defrost it is 450 watts at 4 amps.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 11, 2011)

Interesting article even though it is a few miles over my head. From what I can see in it I either don't use a generator in  power outages or I use one and keep the fridge, my wife's TV and the computers and telcom equipment up and running and call Allstate after the power comes back on. "Hi Allstate. A problem associated with the power outage blew up the flat screen. Send money.".


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## velvetfoot (Jan 12, 2011)

I just ran my 5 kW generator for a while.  Turn on the 1700 watt heat gun, it doesn't get fazed.  It's gotten fazed by the well pump in the past though.  I might try again, with everything turned off.


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## Highbeam (Jan 12, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

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That's it? I expected that big element to use more. How do you know when it kicks into defrost.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 12, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

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The Blueline Power Monitor KWHs jumped up and so did I. And I went over and looked at the Kill-O-Watt the fridge was plugged into. I was gauging various stuff in the house that day to compile a list for generator loading. If the fridge cuts off and its power consumption goes up it is nature's way of telling you that the defrost cycle kicked in.

It isn't a huge increase, at least with mine, but enough to kick the small genny's butt if enough stuff is already running.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 17, 2011)

Who'd a thought if I would've read my Smithsonion magazine earlier I could've gotten a coupon for that genny for 90 bucks.  There's also a 20% coupon, not for gen. use.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 31, 2011)

Here is a picture of a cord I made up that allows me to plug the 125v output to the 240v inlet receptacle.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 3, 2011)

I found the screw that enables one to tweak the governed rpm (bump up volt (and hz) to 120 v. under partial load.


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## Highbeam (Feb 3, 2011)

Ooooh, I don't know about that, I have an adjustment for voltage on the Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR) and then I adjust for Hz with the engine governor. Both are screws but they are independent adjustments. Directions for the genset had me adjust the AVR before the Hz.


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## Danno77 (Feb 3, 2011)

how many volts does it run at under partial load? 110?


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## velvetfoot (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm trying it again with the insert fan and oil boiler on.

It's about 120 Volts now at 3 Amps.  Freq. is about 63 hz.

I didn't think it would be possible to adjust the volts and keep the freq. constant.

I don't like the weird sound the circulator makes - I think a complaint of the pellet stove people too, and hence their desire for the inverter generators.
When I had the TV on too, the oil burner wouldn't start.

Any more generators would be a hard sell.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 28, 2011)

We still have power, but I tried it running the refrigerator yesterday.  It was on for about an hour and a half and it seemed to run fine.  Amazing how little fuel it used, and it was much quieter than the other gennies we have.  Thing is, can only run one thing at at time, but can cycle the fridge, and use the big genny for water pumping.


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## pastera (Aug 28, 2011)

My 800W genny has the fridge, tv, wii, and wireless up and running at the moment... $90 well spent at this point.

Kill-o-watt has it at 110 volts - if anyone has the location to adjust the voltage that would be great if you could post it.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 28, 2011)

There's an indent in the sheet metal on the starter side with a visible screw.
I'd be careful though.


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## fbelec (Aug 29, 2011)

careful with adjusting. you don't want to change the frequency. and before i'd change any setting i would run a second meter across it to double check the voltage. i've had 4 meters on a circuit and all read different voltage. if you have 110 volts while the fridge is running i'd say your ok.


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## maverick06 (Aug 29, 2011)

After our expirance with irene this weekend, where we needed the generator I am thinking of getting this one. The big honeywell i have is great, but it hard to move and hard to start, certainly not something my wife can do. I am thinking of getting this little harborfreight one as a backup, to the backup. If we loose power the thought would be for her to run this generator until i got home. Just powering the sump pump or fireplace blower, then the honeywell can run everything else. 

What do you think? Is this "wife-capable" for carying and especially starting?


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## velvetfoot (Aug 29, 2011)

I've heard it say it weighs 42#.  Two hands for a woman, probably.  Easy to pull.


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 30, 2011)

I think if you tugged it with 2 hands the generator would leap off the ground and attack you.  I have to hold mine down with one hand and pull with the other.  If your wife had somebody hold the generator down the 2 handed approach would work.  I had mine going from cabin to cabin cooling down people's fridges.  I figure if I could restart the melting clock all their food would last longer.  I popped the breaker once, but overall I'm proud of the little bugger.  I don't think I'd recommend it to anybody though.  It will work for an emergency, but puts out enough pollution I wouldn't want to be downwind of it for long.  

Matt


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## velvetfoot (Aug 30, 2011)

What I was driving at was that she could pick it up and haul it outside.  Pulling the cord would probably require one hand, but it's a pretty easy pull.  I guess if you put a foot on it somewhere or other you could maybe use two hands.

I honestly haven't noticed it being overly stinky for a 2 stroke.  There isn't much smoke at all.  Are you using a 50-1 mix.


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 30, 2011)

40 to 1.  I run all my 2 strokes at that for convenience and as a little bit of protection.  I think the sticker on my generator actually says 40:1 on it.  I use a quality oil so it probably wouldn't hurt to run it at 50:1.    

A lady should be able to pick it up without any problems.   I just notice it jump when I give the cord a firm pull.  

Matt


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 30, 2011)

I think my dream generator would be something like this:

http://www.mechron.com/pdf/2kW Military Generator.pdf


With that size I could run my house comfortably for months.  The wife would miss turning on every light in the house but would eventually get over it.  If the sucker could be liquid cooled it could be plumbed into the baseboard and probably heat the house too.  I'd love to know what the realized efficiency of a small genset like the linked one would be if you could harness the waste heat for the house.  When the house wasn't drawing all of the power produced, selling it to the grid would bring down the cost further...


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## velvetfoot (Nov 24, 2011)

Just came across a scope of the Harbor Freight 800 watt waveform on YouTube.'
He doesn't say, but I think it's at no-load.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKl9b7YpwZE


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## maverick06 (Nov 24, 2011)

interesting find. Thats about what I would expect, a relatively noisy sine wave. Its probably unloaded based on the symmetry. I have heard that after the breakin it will smooth out (which makes sense as you break in the generator, if it is a brushed generator, and the engine)... cool


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## pastera (Nov 24, 2011)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> Just came across a scope of the Harbor Freight 800 watt waveform on YouTube.'
> He doesn't say, but I think it's at no-load.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKl9b7YpwZE



How much is from the dinosaurs running around the inside of that scope????

I'll have to fire mine up and at take a look at it with the LeCroy 

Aaron


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## velvetfoot (Nov 24, 2011)

Aaron Pasteris said:
			
		

> How much is from the dinosaurs running around the inside of that scope????
> 
> I'll have to fire mine up and at take a look at it with the LeCroy
> 
> Aaron



That would be truly awesome.


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## granpajohn (Nov 25, 2011)

Aaron Pasteris said:
			
		

> How much is from the dinosaurs running around the inside of that scope????
> 
> Aaron



Hehe...Took me a re-read (or 2) to get that joke.
Given the era in which I first used a scope; and the already old age of the equipment at my school, I guess that thing looked reasonably modern.
(I suppose nowadays oscilloscopes are on phone apps.)


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## Bad Wolf (Nov 25, 2011)

If anybody is considering buying one of these, they are on sale Thusday, Friday and Saturday for $89.99!!

http://www.harborfreight.com/800-ra...dium=email&utm_campaign=4711b&utm_source=1003


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## velvetfoot (Nov 26, 2011)

Well....I just got a Honda EU2000i, on sale.


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## begreen (Nov 26, 2011)

That was a sweet sale. Good deal.


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## woodgeek (Nov 26, 2011)

Greg H said:
			
		

> If anyboy is considering buying one of these there are on sale Thusday, Friday and Saturday for $89.99!!
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/800-ra...dium=email&utm_campaign=4711b&utm_source=1003



Very timely--I just ordered one.  thanks for the heads up.


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## woodgeek (Nov 26, 2011)

I already had a 180W/360W (surge) pure sine inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-EL2200-Elite-Watt-Inverter/dp/B003INJ3VI
(it is a cheapo model, but has worked like a champ over the last year)

Soooo, I also picked up a 'dumb' 500W 12VDC supply for $20: http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-Amp-12V-Power-Adapter/dp/B000P7O5DG

The two things should work ok in combination (with some loss in eff) to give me up to 180W of pure sine inverter power out of my new genny!

Edit: D'oh!  The description is unclear....its 5.8ADC (~70W).  Oh well, perhaps I can charge a laptop or run my wifi...
Edit Deux: Cancelled the little guy and got this 200W one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XESDFO

seems like cheap insurance for running small electronics.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 26, 2011)

Yeah I ordered one of the lil HF dudes yesterday morning. Gonna start using more electric stuff like string trimmers, pole saw etc. Maintain one little two stoke instead of a half dozen and let most of the weight sit in the garden tractor trailer.


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## maverick06 (Nov 26, 2011)

for the HF generator, I have read that it really needs the breakin period before it starts performing well. I forget what it is 20hours maybe?, but people report noticeable improvement after that. Afterwards, if it is giving you trouble, might want to change the plug, there are "better" ones reported for it.


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## woodgeek (Nov 26, 2011)

The manual is pretty vague, but it says 25 hours.  No other directions....load/no load.

The manual does say <600W during break in.  I have a resistance heater at 440W that I will prob use.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 27, 2011)

-I don't know about that electric pole saw.
I believe I paid 90 bucks for it..10% of the new one.  
I've had no issues with the unit.
I'd say it puts out at least what it claims though, and a little more, maybe 1000 w.
Weird, it never seems to trip with high load, just slows down.
You don't want to let it run out of gas with load connected; it does a lot of speeding up and slowing down.
I was able to run the fridge on it, and it seemed fine.
The motors, however, on the insert and boiler circulators didn't sound so great.
The gas shut off is nice - I'm not sure why the Honda's gas shut off valve is integrated with the kill switch.
It is also very cute.


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## maverick06 (Nov 27, 2011)

I think the integrated gas/kill switch integration is the new standard, maybe the requirement. My generac is that way... 

blowers on teh inert should take nearly no wattage, mine are about 70 watts... It might be so low, that the generator still is bouncing around near idle. Might improve once broken in. Also try giving it more load and see if it smooths out.


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## karl (Nov 27, 2011)

Will it run a miter saw?  My saw says 12 amps on the label.  That's 1320 watts but only if I stall it out.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 27, 2011)

I don't think so.  There's startup current.


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## woodgeek (Nov 27, 2011)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> -I don't know about that electric pole saw.
> I believe I paid 90 bucks for it..10% of the new one.
> I've had no issues with the unit.
> I'd say it puts out at least what it claims though, and a little more, maybe 1000 w.
> ...



How long did you break it in?  I was gonna run 5 gallons of gas at half load.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 28, 2011)

I have maybe a gallon run through it, testing with the heat gun, checking out how it ran the stove and boiler, and running the refrigerator for a good bit, just as a test.  5 gallons will go a long long way.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 28, 2011)

Mine will be here in a week or so. It will get broken in just like any two stroke I have ever owned. Running its little butt off on the electric pole saw and leaf blower. Break in or break up. Let's get it over with before the warranty runs out. Chainsaws go into the big wood as soon as they are warmed up.


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## EJL923 (Dec 2, 2011)

i keep seeing these little gens at HF.  Would be perfect to run my insert blowers.  I am in a holding pattern for a big gen as i try to find one to power my massive well pump.


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## woodgeek (Dec 7, 2011)

OK, I got mine last weekend and gave it a quick try....

Based on research on other fora, I have concluded that these gennies are fine, and work well for folks that know how to run/maintain two-strokes.  I assume that the (surprisingly few) horror stories are a low percentage of lemons and idiots that didn't add oil.   I have also concluded that some vendors are reselling the exact same units as 1000W/1200Wsurge, probably just replacing the breaker.  I expect this guy to manage loads of that size, after break-in, perhaps with reduced life.

FYI, what I am looking for is a storable snowmageddon/hurricane/zombie apocalypse generator.  I am unlikely to break it out for a few hours of darkness--we have city water, lanterns, a wood stove, a propane camping stove, and a couple thousand books to read.  Over the next decade I plan to use it exactly zero times, but if I get a multi-day outage (hasn't happened here since 8 years ago), it will be nice to have.  I want to break it in, mothball it for long term storage, and then all I have to do is rotate my stored gas annually.  I will prob fire it up after a year to check my mothballing strategy. The $80 price was right for something I expect to use never.

Based upon internet research, I replaced the plug with a Champion plug with a slightly smaller gap than the factory plug, used 93 octane ethanol free gas + stabil + 50:1 oil.  Put a quart of mix in it, started on second pull, ran a ~500W heater load for 1 hour, shut it down.  Warm restart again on the second pull.  Output fluctuated a little to my killawatt, running 125V and 62 HZ, more like 121/60 after restart.  Engine is a good deal quieter than a gas lawnmower, could talk next to it in principle, but not exactly quiet either.  Unlikely to keep the neighbors awake, or me unless I put it under my bedroom window.  Engine chatters on no load, but not under load.  Runs about 2 mins w/o load after the gas is shut off (draining the carb I guess), surges 3-4 times melodramatically before swooning.

I will break it in some (manual says 25 hours (!)) and post if anything noteworthy occurs.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 7, 2011)

The concern that I have is that electric motors don't seem totally happy.


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## woodgeek (Dec 7, 2011)

Could you be more specific?  I figure motors are gonna be unhappy on square wave or even a good MSW, potentially overheating or stalling or both.  The upthread scope outputs on this or similar gennies suggest some higher harmonics.  I would expect those to be less of a problem than the square wave case.  Naively, I could imagine the higher harmonics giving me an audible pitch on the motor windings, but I wouldn't expect them to really overload or damage the motor.  With the dead simple design and nice flywheel, I would imagine that this little guy could manage a pretty good startup current, but I worry that startup on an electronic inverter gen could be another story (but probably solved by good engineering).

Did the motors just sound different or did they stall out or overheat?


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## velvetfoot (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes, they sounded different.  I noticed that the insert blower went slower as well as pulsed, but that is on a manual speed control.  I also noticed pulsing noises from the boiler circulating pumps and, to a lesser degree, the oil burner.  I noticed nothing strange with the fridge or TV/electronics or compact flourescent lighting.

I still have a soft spot for that genny and may still try to use it.


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## maverick06 (Dec 7, 2011)

I have 2 inverter generators at 2000 watts, but that little 800 watt generator is still something I lust over. even though i have no use for it. It is something that you could cover in cosmoline and bury in your backyard  haha


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## BrotherBart (Dec 7, 2011)

Received mine a couple of days ago. Since it came in the same delivery as my new dual burner hot plate I hooked'em up and used the break in of the genny to cook the stink off of the hotplate. Smooth running little dude. One burner on the hot plate is 575 watts and the other is 775. It is happy with either one but both knock it to its knees as expected.

I have sufficient firepower with the two other gennys for power outages but wanted this one so I can transition to electric pole trimmers, weed wackers and leaf blowers and only have to maintain one two stroke instead of the army of them I have now.Toss it and an extension cord in the garden tractor trailer and work anywhere on the property. Also for the cement mixer.

After I ran it for a while I sent a note to my BIL who has a body shop and spends a lot of time at the deer lease telling him he really needed to get one. Turns out he has had three of them for a long time.


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## EJL923 (Dec 7, 2011)

This generator is on their site right now for $130


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## EJL923 (Dec 7, 2011)

BB you hook this up to any electronics yet?


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## BrotherBart (Dec 7, 2011)

EJL923 said:
			
		

> BB you hook this up to any electronics yet?



Nope. Don't plan to. I run that stuff on the 3250 or 5000 watt machines through rack mount surge supressors when the power goes south.


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## EJL923 (Dec 7, 2011)

Didn't think so.  I keep going back and forth about what kind of generator to get.  One big enough to run my well, which right now are expensive and hard to come by, or something small to run the insert and maybe the fridge.  The OP's talk of his insert blowers revving concerns me.  I did however run my insert of a modified inverter from my car, so this little genny has to be better than that.


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## maverick06 (Dec 7, 2011)

keep an eye on the piles of advertisements that show up at your house. Usually once a week we will get one from harbor freight. Sometimes they have a coupon for the generator at $89.  Or you can buy it on ebay for a few bucks. I have a few sitting around here in case I take a notion to get one. Mail me some firewood and I will send you the coupon


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## EJL923 (Dec 7, 2011)

Ill send you some oak I just cut down, should be ready by winter 2050.

Actually I searched for coupon online, and found a code. Put it in and voila, $90 bucks!


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## maverick06 (Dec 7, 2011)

Cool, just searched and this one seems to work... 39963038

for those looking


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## velvetfoot (Dec 8, 2011)

The flier they sent me for the store was for 99.99 and is good to the end of December.


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## woodgeek (Dec 8, 2011)

talk about jinx--less than a day after saying I planned to never need it, I had a 6 hour outage with the sump running in my finished basement.  Genny worked as required, and no probs turning over the 1/3 hp Zoeller every now and then.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 8, 2011)

woodgeek said:
			
		

> talk about jinx--less than a day after saying I planned to never need it, I had a 6 hour outage with the sump running in my finished basement.  Genny worked as required, and no probs turning over the 1/3 hp Zoeller every now and then.



Sounds like good timing to me.


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## maverick06 (Dec 8, 2011)

awesome! the purschase justified its self! 

I will reiterate my previous comment that for me: as soon as power goes out, if it is raining, I am starting up the generator. 

My sump has been dry for the last 3 years, since I moved a downspout. But durring hte hurricane power went out, and the sump was dry, I didnt fire up the generator as it was almost bed time, within 30 min the sump went from bone dry to old faithful, by the time water alarm went off and i got the generator was running I had an inch of water in the basement. 

rain - power = generator running

Its cheap protection


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## woodgeek (Dec 8, 2011)

agreed.  My pit is often wet, seldom needs to be pumped.  I think I pumped the pit maybe a dozen times in 6 hours, burning all my gas on idle--but I wanted it idling in case things got more intense.

I have a battery back up sump system, but I haven't installed it yet.  Now I am more motivated--what if I wasn't home? the battery system would've handled this no sweat.


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## EJL923 (Dec 15, 2011)

Well i bought one, and it came in already.  Ran it for the first time last night and it surged for a while, but smoothed out after 5 minutes or so.  I had a 150w halogen hooked up and the light was dimming up and down during that, but was ok after it smoothed out.  Hooked it up to the insert blowers, and they ran decent, but not perfect. The speed wasn't as fast as on grid power when turned all the way up, but not bad enough where i thought i was hurting the blowers. They ran better than when i was running them off a modified sine inverter during the 6 day outage.  All in all, for $100 bucks it does what i want, gives me heat during an outage.  I changed the plug before starting a to a n11YC champion, so i cant tell you how it would have run with the stock bonon f5tc.  My next test is the mini fridge.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 15, 2011)

My motors ran smoother the other day.  Maybe it's a break-in thing.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 15, 2011)

I left the stock plug in mine and it runs great.


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## maverick06 (Dec 16, 2011)

Supposedly they really smooth out by the 20 hour break in.... check the voltage if the blowers dont sound right. If it is low you *can* crank it up.... what you *can* do isnt always what you *should* do.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 16, 2011)

You change the rpm with that adjustment, along with voltage as well as frequency.


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