# Vermont Castings Encore 2550 - Refractory Assembly Question (w Pictures)



## oldAGE (Feb 1, 2008)

Hello folks -

Today I removed my upper fireback from my VC 2550 CAT stove.  Many know that I have been fighting an over fire situation where my stove with Primary Air closed will burn two splits and hit upwards of 700 degrees.  Engaging the CAT (brand new Condar) I would not get the classic rumble.  In short, the stove has not been behaving as it has since Christmas.  I have had this for 7 years (installed new) and have learned its traits to the letter.

In my quest for looking for leaks, bad joints, etc, today I removed the upper fireback.  Enclosed are pictures of my refractory assembly (CAT removed).  Please tell me your opinions upon reviewing the photos.  Thanks again to those who have been providing me outstanding assistance regarding this issue.

AGE


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## swestall (Feb 1, 2008)

Its hard to tell from the pics but the top part certainly looks deteriorated. Aren't they warranteed?


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## webbie (Feb 1, 2008)

Looks to be in reasonable shape - I think that stuff on the top is just cement for where it fits against the stove.


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## downeast (Feb 2, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> Looks to be in reasonable shape - I think that stuff on the top is just cement for where it fits against the stove.



That refractory box simply sits behind the fireback and under the damper. Missing in the pic is the cat and the "refractory access panel" covering the cat. No cement used, but it damn looks like sheetrock screws ( !!) are used to hold the pieces together. High tech ass'y.


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## oldAGE (Feb 2, 2008)

OK - So no concensus.  The interesting point is that the Upper Fireback has a notch in it that, when mated to the lower fireback, creates the path for flue gases to enter the refractory.  The back edges of the notched perimeter has a tongue and that tongue fits into the groove that is visible along the top and upper sides of the refractory.  It is evident by the rust stain across the top and the upper left side.  The right side is broken down quite a bit.  I would venture to guess that the upper fireback no longer makes a seal to the refractory where it is broken away.  When damper is opened, most of the flue gases enter the upper fireback and out the stove pipe.  The secondary air also adds air so when the primary is completely closed down, secondary air can still enter the stove body and air channels by seeping back through the broken down refractory.  When damper is closed, a portion of the flue gases are not forced through the CAT, mixed with air, and out the flue channel but rather finds the path of least resistance through the holes and out.  This possibly causes more air to be drawn into the secondary and adds to the over draft.

Now I have to quickly find a new and reasonable refractory assembly with the access panel.  And yes, it looks like sheet rock screws hold the refractory together.

AGE


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## swestall (Feb 2, 2008)

Yeah, but they are the Vermont Castings, High-Tech Woodstove, Sheetrock Screws: LOL!


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## oldAGE (Feb 20, 2008)

OK... Received my new refractory assembly from my dealer yesterday and installed it, cemented some seams, reinstalled the upper fireback, and put everything back together again.  Tonight I take a trial run to see what happens...  Will my magical mystical overfire conditions be solved?  Will I now have $500 sunk into a this stove for no apparent reason and something else is wrong?  Will it ever stop snowing here and will the ice covered roads ever clear?  Will the Mets ever win another World Series in my lifetime....  All good questions and the answers start coming tonight.

I will post pictures of my complete removed refractory for second opinions later today.  Once again, thanks to those who have been participating in my hell.  I am glad that I have everyone here and that my two months without a normally behaving stove may soon be over.  By the way, whilst waiting for this part to come from what is apparently the moon, I looked at an F500 Jotul Oslo.  Are they truly and really "that simple?"

AGE


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## Xpress (Feb 20, 2008)

FWIW,

I just finished tearing down a 2 yr old Resolute Acclaim and the combustion package looked a bit worse than yours but I was experiencing the same symptoms.  A fire I was having a tough time controlling.  Even with the damper closed it was having a tough time settling down. I ordered a new one, which of course is also on backorder 5-8 more days I have been told.  I am hoping a new combustion package helps but the old one was definitely falling apart and yes, it was held together with three (what appeared to be drywall) screws. One interesting thing about the stove was the air inlet in the bottom of the back wall. It is about 3/4" tall and 2 1/2" long.  It looks as though the refractory box seals this intake but I am wondering if this inlet in conjunction with the larger holes being formed in the combustion package was the culprit for the excess draft.  

Please let us know how you fare.  I would be very interested in hearing about your experience.


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## oldAGE (Feb 20, 2008)

Xpress - No problem.  That inlet you are talking about in the last of your reply is called the Secondary Air assembly and is meant to help keep the CAT at temp.  On the Encore, the bi-metal spring expands when the probe that it is attached too and is inside the refractory (through the back of the stove) gets hot and the little metal damper door closes down.  When that probe cools, the bi-metal spring contracts and it draws opened allowing more secondary air for heating the catalytic combustor again.   I don't know if the Acclaim has the same setup but if it does, check your probe for wear and tear.  You may notice that the refractory assembly sits on a couple of offsets creating an air gap between the refractory and the back-bottom allowing the air to pass into the refractory assembly.

I am hoping that my refractory was broken down enough that, like you think, secondary air was passing through into the firebox doing two things -- increasing my draft and keeping the box too hot.  I expect that flue gases were by-passing the refractory and heading up the chimney creating a vicious cycle.  I will be posting a first "draft" (pun intended) tonight.  I won't be able to get a good long fire going until this weekend as I am deathly afraid of building a long burn and slow burn condition unless I can spend hours attending to the stove.

AGE


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## Xpress (Feb 20, 2008)

Can't wait to hear... My stove has nothing at all covering this orifice. No thermostatic control devices anyway.  There is a "ridge" or backbone of cast iron in the shape of a square around the opening that pushes against the combustion package I believe.  The interesting thing is though, I cannot burn it long without closing the rear damper to slow the draft.

Anyway, good luck with yours!


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## oldAGE (Feb 20, 2008)

Fire is running with very small splits and keeping it around 300 for a bit.  Will be adding fuel soon.  Here are a few photos of the refractory upon removal.  Not horrible but....
AGE



			
				oldAGE said:
			
		

> OK... Received my new refractory assembly from my dealer yesterday and installed it, cemented some seams, reinstalled the upper fireback, and put everything back together again.  Tonight I take a trial run to see what happens...  Will my magical mystical overfire conditions be solved?  Will I now have $500 sunk into a this stove for no apparent reason and something else is wrong?  Will it ever stop snowing here and will the ice covered roads ever clear?  Will the Mets ever win another World Series in my lifetime....  All good questions and the answers start coming tonight.
> 
> I will post pictures of my complete removed refractory for second opinions later today.  Once again, thanks to those who have been participating in my hell.  I am glad that I have everyone here and that my two months without a normally behaving stove may soon be over.  By the way, whilst waiting for this part to come from what is apparently the moon, I looked at an F500 Jotul Oslo.  Are they truly and really "that simple?"
> 
> AGE


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## oldAGE (Feb 21, 2008)

Well, the Jury is still out.  I goosed it up yesterday a bit and I still don't believe my stove is behaving normally although it seems a bit better than previously reported.  What are the chances that I have a bad CAT out of the box????

After keeping her at about 300 for a couple of hours, I added some very well seasoned splits (stored indoors for over a year) and tempered it with some well seasoned splits taken from outside (zero degrees).  Backed down to 1/3 primary air and once again, she climbed through 550.  I had a small bed of coals and let her sit there for bit and then engaged the damper.  For you Encore CAT owners, with my new refractory and new CAT, I still don't get that little rumble that I used to get.  And, although the flames slowed down better than in the past month, I used to get that rumble and my flames would be very low and more blue with minor ignition of gases that created a slow rolling burn every once in awhile.  Now, I have tall flames that move slowly and with the primary nearly closed, the stove reached about 600 - 625 and then settled back down again and I adjusted the air to 1/3 opened and she seemed to hold ok.  This was with the firebox only about 1/3 - 1/2 filled.

This weekend, I will start in the early morning and see where it takes me across the course of a day.

AGE


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## marc nichols (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm curious to hear how this ended. 

I recently replaced my near new Encore everburn (junk IMHO) with a 2550 CAT version. It burns much nicer but I still have a control problem. Essentially, the amount and quality of the wood load determins how hot it runs. The controls do little. I cannot throttle it back to 400 with three splits...450-500 perhaps but usually 500+. 

My flue system is likely the problem at 8" x 28 ft. My dealer did install a flue damper but even that has little effect. Very odd.

I'd like to know how air flows through this stove and if there is anything I can do to better control air into it.


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## Xpress (Feb 24, 2008)

Marc,

That sounds like the same problem I have with my Acclaim.  Is your chimney Class A? Mine is about 22 ft. and has a very strong draft when heated.  It seems at times, if the wood is even a bit too dry the draft overpowers the air control's ability to regulate the fire.  I also tried an inline flue damper with little success.  I actually removed it shortly after installing it. 

I too am curious to hear how the OP made out.


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## marc nichols (Feb 24, 2008)

Class A? Is that double wall? If so, yes, about 15 feef or the @28 foot total length. Seems like a weak draft when cool and a very strong draft when hot. My in-line damper has a hole in the middle. I don't remember how large but probably about 2.5 inches diameter. One would think the system would slow and eventually starve, but it doesn't. I'm considering fitting a 6" pipe which would heat quicker but not carry as much air and I would assume, decrease the upper capacity of the draft. I can't shorten the overall height of the flue.

I'm sure this flue length worked fine years ago with a non epa stove and total inlet air control.  

Today I am burning compressed sawdust logsn (energy logs), just one at a time. After six hours (I get three hours per log choked completley) stove top is still 500+. Two logs or three moderately dried hardwood splits drives temp over 600 fully choked down and if I'm not careful, well into 700.


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## oldAGE (Feb 25, 2008)

Hey folks.  I wanted to make sure that I had good and adequate data before posting.  I am saddened to report that although the new refractory seems to be helping me control my fires better to some degree, I don't believe my problems are solved by any stretch of the imagination.  I do believe my combustor is working as my smoke is drastically reduced now.

Like Marc is posting and like Xpress has indicated his concern (I assume Xpress is a "he"), the behavior of my 2550 is nowhere near where it has been.  Started fires slowly, built my ash bed to a reasonable depth, maintained temp with small splits at 550 - 600 with primary air at 1/4.  Add a couple of larger splits and let them get going, engage the damper.  She holds at 550 as it has in the past.... but, then as the splits begin to get good and charred, the temps rise.  I have my original thermometer and bought an inexpensive Rutland brand a month ago.  My old one (must tap it to get it to jump to the indicated temp) moves upwards of 650+ while the new Rutland reports 725+...  And after a good while it begins to fall off.  If I close the primary air, the temps still would remain high and once burned off, she would cool down.

In the past, following the exact steps above, I would engage the damper at 500 - 600 and set the primary at 1/3 opened and she would sit there at 550 for hours at a time.  Closing down the primary would reduce the heat.  Again, I do get a tall lazy flame but in the past it would be a low blue flame with rolling waves of yellow flame as the gases ignite.  I don't seem to have that behavior any longer.

Thanks to all and my search for an answer continues.
AGE


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## Xpress (Feb 25, 2008)

Sorry for the name...I was staring outside and saw the name brand of my small fishing boat and used that.  All other things being equal, it would seem maybe there is a new air leak?  Did you regasket the stove just to be safe?  Good luck, I know I could use some as well. Please keep us posted.


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## oldAGE (Feb 25, 2008)

The first thing I did was regasket the doors and ashpan.  After than, I regasketed the griddle top.  After that, the inside wearplates and lower fireback.  So, just about everything that can be gasketed is gasketed.  I used furnace cement on the seams that show signs of being brittle.  The one thing that I am going to do next is use less seasoned wood along with my seasoned wood to see if I can find a decent middle ground of moisture content.

AGE


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## swestall (Feb 25, 2008)

Hey! I am wondering how much of a problem this really is? The temps you are getting are not really out of line with what the stove can handle. The stove is older and since its not new, it isn't going to work as it did when it was out of the box. But, how much more wood are you using and is the stove giving you good heat for the wood.
I had similar experiences with my Defiant CAT stove when I had it. It just didn't make a lot of difference to me. It wasn't overfiring, it didn't get over 700 unless I got it there and it didn't use any more wood than before. The heat was great!
In fact, I think I was stupid for changing it out to the non-CAT stove. After that fiasco I upgraded to a Hearthstone Mansfield and am happy with it; but the Defiant CAT was just fine the way it was.

Perhaps that might be the case with yours; It isn't just like new, but the performance is within its operating limits, it isn't overfiring and you are getting nice heat from it?


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## oldAGE (Feb 25, 2008)

Swestall -

I was thinking the same thing when I tested it this weekend.  It is just on the cusp of being OK by my standards.  I made that comment to my wife yesterday that is seems better.  As a matter of fact, I was just speaking with a coworker who helped drive me towards the VC in the first place and he asked the same question.  What is bothering me is that after seven years of expected behavior, it is "radically" different than what I was accustomed too which is what is bothering me.  The fact that I can't make the stove "cooler" on demand is something that sits in the back of my mind.  It seems to operating on its own terms.  That's why I want to try a few things still.  I really didn't try to get my stove to 750 degrees... It just went there on its own.  I am afraid to fill the firebox because I really don't know what to expect.  Will more wood just mean less air and it will control itself?  I guess only time will tell and I have to try.

One other note... there seems to be greater slack in my primary air control so its use is not as granular as it used to be.  I am going to see what happens if I take some of that up... 

Next, I am going to invest in a fairly inexpensive IR Thermometer to see how hot that device records it to see how accurate the bimetal thermometers are.   I was able to put my hand about three feet up my double walled stove pipe so i am wondering how hot everything really is.

Thanks for the feedback.  Keep it coming and keep me honest.
AGE


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## swestall (Feb 26, 2008)

http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.co...D-EC37-4E81-94F6-89BDCCA6AB49}/qx/product.htm

I bought this one and it goes up to 1022F, plenty for me. Good price and it works well.

Yes, take up the slack on the primary.

Try loading more wood.

You changed the CAT perhaps the new one is working better than the old one was.


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## eernest4 (Feb 26, 2008)

hi old age,

I think the word you wanted to used to describe the loose opperation of the primary air control was linear , non granular. garnular refers to suger or snow, but we got the idea.

After seeing all the troubles that you guys get with your catalitic cumbusters & how complicated your stoves are, I am glad that both of mine are secondary burn.

My friend Billy just bought a vermont castings encore defiant from 1986 all beat for $30.oo
& of course ,he will want to rebuild it & restore it to its former opperation, not even knowing what that former opperation was like.

Thats why i am reading this thread, because i know he will be comming to me for help later this summer on that stove.

well, you are going through hell with it now & I will be going thru the same in oct or nov 2008, depending upon how long Billy waits to get started on it.
Well , at least, it is mostly his trouble, even if I have to get the step by step & am expected to
give his rebuilding efforts steering advice & troubleshooting.


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## marc nichols (Feb 26, 2008)

I can't image going from the CAT to an everburn. God did I hate that everburn and am I ever happy to have it gone. Howeever, I had the same issue with lack of control so I'm now down to my flue. I suspect that 28' of 8" pipe is just too much for the stoves designed-in controls to handle. Even with a damper, I can't burn three splits at 450....not gonna happen. So, it is impossible to load it for an extended burn.

I'm going to try a 6" flue and include a damper for good measure. I'm stuck with the 28' parameter. If that doesn't work, I'm going to see if I can modify the air intakes on the stove.   

Billy should be pleased with that older unit. I sure did like my 30 year old VC pre emissions stove. A joy to operate and to look at.


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## oldAGE (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the kind words and corrections to semantics.  My 8" of SS chimney and 8" of double walled stove pipe worked perfectly well with this stove up until Christmas Day, 2007.  Seven wonderful years of great heat, great consumption control, and great temperature control.  My issues are something completely different.  I'll get to the bottom of it or I will have a Secondary Burn Jotul F400 or F500 in its place by summers end....

AGE


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## swestall (Feb 27, 2008)

That is how I solved my VC problems, a new stove. I went for Soapstone but the f500 is nice too.


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## elmoleaf (Feb 27, 2008)

oldAGE said:
			
		

> .... worked perfectly well with this stove up until Christmas Day, 2007.



Sheesh, it's all perfectly clear now! Have you checked for a Santa stuck in the flue? 

Perhaps, as others suggested, there's an air leak. On my Intrepid, there's a spot near the back right corner where the tie rod goes through the firebox floor .... the furnace cement tends to fall out. You can then see daylight out through the primary air vent from inside the firebox. Perhaps a similar situation exists on your stove that's allowing uncontrolled air into the firebox? Recheck your assumptions about which seals/gaskets are good....check 'em all again.
Good luck.


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## oldAGE (Feb 27, 2008)

Oh, don't get me wrong, I truly believe there is an air leak.  I never doubted that one exists.  I just can't find it.  I have gutted the box... On the Encore you can remove the lower fireback, upper fireback, and the inside wear plates (left and right).  I dug and scraped any loose cement, wire brushed the areas, and tried to reseal the best I could with furnace cement.  I used a halogen work lamp in a dark room and can see no "daylight" whatsoever.   

Regarding the gaskets -- they all passed the dollar bill tests after I installed them.  I will test again but everything feels firm when latched down.

Results of last night's fire (using a new Mastercool Infrared Thermometer) -- normal start up, normal load up, primary air closed down to 1/4, two large splits took the stove from 400 to 650, closed primary air and the stove cooled to 500 and no lower, decent coal bed, filled the box 2/3 full, opened primary air to 1/4, she sat around 550 for a good while and then when she reached critical mass, she rose to 700+ and stayed there for a good long time.

So, yes, I believe air is coming from somewhere but I just don't know where.  I am at a loss but will check all the gaskets again.

AGE


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## nrgsphere (Jul 5, 2008)

Wow - what a challenge to get full functioning out of a unit that had been performing fine. Thanks for taking us through it, Really Hot. I just bought a second hand Encore today - assuming I'd have to replace the cat, but upon inspection, it looks like I am going to have to replace the refractory materials too. Ouch - otherwise the stove is in great condition, and fortunately, not just according to me and the seller! This thread has been a very useful discussion of that replacement situation, and the uncertainty of the outcome even if all reasonable steps are taken. So to the question - did you ever get closer to the performance you'd hoped to reach after all your steps, maybe after a "break-in" period? Also, in my particular case, is replacing the refractory assembly a difficult job in and of itself? It sounds pretty doable from what I have read, but a step by step for the VC neophyte would be gratefully accepted. Thanks!


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## slindo (Jul 5, 2008)

You can't have overfiring without excess air. Have you done a full check for leakage? the ash door is the obvious suspect, as it requires regular regasketing, but the window seals can start leaking as well.

Oh, the drywall screws were probably just to hold the assembly together until the refractory cement dried. A very common practice.


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## nrgsphere (Jul 7, 2008)

I found a useful set of instructions for dismantling the encore 2550 to, in my case, replace the refractory material, but in their documents, replace the fireback unit as a whole,  here: www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2006/2003101_Fireback_5927.pdf. Now, the painful part - buying the replacement refractory, and catalyst - hefty chunk people, fingers crossed it's worth it.


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## nrgsphere (Nov 18, 2008)

Hey there fellow VC encore 2550 stalwarts. thank you all for contributing your experience and expertise to this forum. I have a bit of expereince now, but no expertise yet, with operating my particular VC 2550. To do so, I went through the process of replacing the refractory and the gaskets myself, and then with help, installing the stove into a big hearth with a 25 foot 8" liner newly installed. I think I did a pretty conscious and decent job on my side of this effort, having learned from you folks how touchy this stuff can get, but I don't claim perfection. 

The first couple of time we used the stove, it seemed somewhat more controllable heatwise than it does now. much as others have described their experiences. Once a good bed of coals has been established, and the heat rises to approx 450/500, we engage the cat and basically shut down the damper. At the point, with only two or three logs in it, it will go up to 600+ for a quite awhile, generating good heat and not burning much wood. The smoke outside is all but invisible, so the cat's doing it's trick (no noise to speak of inside, perhaps the quitest rumble). If we want more heat, we open the damper a bit, something we do when the fire backs off to 500 - 550. At that point though, if we add another log or two, and want to keep the fire burning in our "medium" comfort zone, it seems to want to take off and run up to and even over 700, to 720, or once, 750, even with the damper fully closed. 

This makes us anxious. 

Then, when the stove has settled down a bit, it seems to, again, with damper closed, want to run at about 700 steadily. We feed it along with a log or two, keeping it dampered, and maintain usually between 600-700 through the day. 

So here's (finally) my questions:

 1) My understanding is that the stove should be happy around 700, even for long burns, and at a bit more than that even for short periods, so I shouldn't have to worry that I am doing anything "wrong" by using it as it runs right now. Is this correct? The manual and some portion of the postings here seem to support that assessment, but I'd feel better confirming it. 

2) What about longer burns, overnight, for example, when I want to load up the fire and damper it down with a lot wood, I don't want to worry that it's going to run away on me. Can I do this safely under the current circumstances? I have read that burning more wood, some if it less than dried, can bring down the temp of the burn, and I am burning pretty dry wood right now by my estimate. If I add a little less dried wood to mix and start with a hot, but not too hot fire, then damper it, should I be able to burn a bigger load? We haven't tried this 'cause we're chicken, I mean cautious. 

The house is a 1783 colonial with probably about the same square footage, but without fantastic insulation,  so having the stove fire away at the level it's been firing actually does a very nice job of heating our place, so I don't actually object to burning at around 700 so long as it's not a hazard to us, the house, the stove in that order. When it gets colder, I will be even happier with the heat output, and I am otherwise very pleased with the unit in terms of how much you get out of a chunk of wood. Kinda amazing, actually. 

Oh yeah, and if it is running too hot, what are recommended steps for bringing it back down while the fire is underway. I want to know just what to do when it's trying to push much past 700?

So finally, thanks again for the expertise to date, and any feedback you might have on this Encore's encore in this case, and safe wood heating to you all. 


Nick G. in CT


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## Crispy (Sep 13, 2010)

oldAGE said:
			
		

> Hello folks -
> 
> Today I removed my upper fireback from my VC 2550 CAT stove.  Many know that I have been fighting an over fire situation where my stove with Primary Air closed will burn two splits and hit upwards of 700 degrees.  Engaging the CAT (brand new Condar) I would not get the classic rumble.  In short, the stove has not been behaving as it has since Christmas.  I have had this for 7 years (installed new) and have learned its traits to the letter.
> 
> ...


Hello,
How did you remove the upper fireback? Is it cemented in? Does anyone have some directions on how to replace the refractory assembly? I have the lower fireback out. That was just two pins that hold that in, but the upper one looks like it is going to be trouble. I have only burned two seasons with my Encore that was purchased in fall of 2008, but I poked a hole in it when trying to clean off ash and stuff off of the top of it. I am going to save the old one in case Io need some of the material to fix my new one if possible. Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
Crispy


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## oldAGE (Sep 13, 2010)

Crispy -
That is truly a bummer.  Is your stove a newer model than the 2550?  I think the new ones are different but I could be wrong.  I my case, the upper fireback is both cemented and bolted.  There are two thru bolts that hold it in place and the seams are cemented.  If my memory serves me, the bolts are actually removed from the outside on the back of the stove.  It should be very evident where they are.  Then you have to gently pry it off and angle it out correctly so that you don't damage the damper shaft that runs through the fireback and out the left side.

I will look for the link to the instructions.  Don't know if I have it here at work or at home.  Try google VC or Vermont Castings Encore 2550 Upper Fireback and see what you find online.
AGE


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## Crispy (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks Age,
Yes I wrecked my entire weekend when I poked the hole in it. I don't know too much about stoves as it is, making this very aggravating. Thank you for taking the time to try and help.


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## homebrewz (Sep 13, 2010)

You might try cutting a patch out of your old refractory box and cement it in place with refractory cement. 
Just a thought. I have a model 0028 and saved my old one for that purpose. I also broke the shelf out of it, 
and secured it with sheet rock screws. Seems to be holding up so far. 

Has anyone ever tried building their own replacement out of refractory boards, cement, and screws? 

As far as a leaking stove, I like to look for air intake leaks with a lit incense stick. I just move it around the 
joints of the stove and see where the smoke is being drawn in. 

I hope some of this helps.


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## Crispy (Sep 14, 2010)

A thought..... Would you be able to run  the stove without the refractory unit in? I dont see why I could not?


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## Crispy (Sep 14, 2010)

A thought..... Would you be able to run  the stove without the refractory unit or the cat in? I dont see why I could not?


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## homebrewz (Sep 14, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> A thought..... Would you be able to run  the stove without the refractory unit or the cat in? I dont see why I could not?



Yes, but you could only have small fires and thus only be using a small portion of the stoves potential. It would be akin to buying that car you've always wanted,
but never getting past second gear. I can't comment on any potential safety issues with doing this, but it seems to me that running it on bypass all the time would
also be circumventing the pollution fighting aspect of the catalyst.


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## Crispy (Sep 14, 2010)

I am going to order the parts tomorrow. I have my list of parts. I noticed the secondary air probe is not in the best shape so I am ordering that, and the gasket kit. Fire Honor Society, Thank You for your input.
Crispy


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## oldAGE (Sep 14, 2010)

I wouldn't run the stove without the refractory.  There are folks here who have built their own refractory package.  I believe there is one guy who even provided dimensions and where he got sheet material.  May have been an older model or an Acclaim.  Can't remember.  As for keeping the old... yup.  Good idea.  Finally Crispy, the secondary air probe is not in the best of shape?  Did you acquire this stove in 2008 or was this stove new in 2008?  I sure hope the latter because as part of my issue that I started in this thread, I too pulled/replaced my secondary air probe and other than a mere amount of wear, it was in near perfect shape.  I replaced it because it was a relatively cheap part.  I sure hope your stove is not two years old.  Being that your are in RI, you won't need to run this thing for at least another month.


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## Crispy (Sep 14, 2010)

Fire Honor Society..
Yes I purchased my stove in 2008 NEW right off the floor. It was the last one the guy had and sold me the floor model. I will take a picture soon and post it for you to see the secondary burner probe. It seems like I should replace it. I wish I had bought a simple stove to learn the art of burning. I have only burned for two seasons. I bought a new spliiter this season and was really getting into this whole way of heating my house. Then the refractory problem!
Crispy


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## homebrewz (Sep 14, 2010)

The refractory is a fragile thing and is best treated tenderly.. like an old French car.


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## Crispy (Oct 6, 2010)

Ok.... Yesterday I got all the parts (refractory assembly, gasket kit, secondary probe) and I had a guy help me that does wood stove installations. He only charged me $100, so I thought it was a better safe than sorry deal. The upper fire back is cemented in place. I could have done it with out the tech there, but you live and you learn. You need to take out both side panels too. I replaced some of the gaskets that were showing wear. The toughest part was getting the hanging hood to attach to the upper fire back. It was the last step, but I had a hell of a time getting that back in. Lit my first fire later that night. The only thing going on now is some "puffing" every so often right out of the door on the top of the stove to drop the wood in. 
Crispy


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## oldAGE (Oct 6, 2010)

Yup... you have to gut the stove.  Sorry.  Thought that was obvious as the curve of the side panels don't give you the access to remove the upper fire back.  No big deal right..  two bolts (internal) for each side. The back puffing is due to a build up of internal gases, tweak your air opened more on the right... a little love tap to give it just a smidgen more air.  What temp do you burn at?  I use both your standard classic griddle top therm and an IR just for the fun of it...


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## WarmME (Oct 8, 2010)

I broke a bolt while trying to remove the upper fire back... can I leave the fireback in place and cut the refractory assembly to re-install it?


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## oldAGE (Oct 9, 2010)

Well that's just ugly.  Sorry to hear that WarmME.  My personal opinion is that cutting the refractory is counter productive to what it's intention is.  I would assume that gas flow, heat, and draft would expose the seam of a cut refractory letting the gases leak through to the back of the stove and out the flue and reduce the efficiency and affect of the catalytic converter.  Of course others might have a different opinion.  Best of luck with this effort.  Post back and tell us what you ended up deciding and doing.
AGE


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## WarmME (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for the input Fire Honor Society, I heeded your advice and pushed through getting the upper fireback off. I drilled out the bolt and was less gentle while trying to pry it off the back wall.  I cleaned the stove out thoroughly and reassembled with the new refractory assembly.  I started our first fire in it last night and it worked perfectly!  We acquired the stove with a house we bought in June; everything in the house has needed work; thanks to this thread and http://legacy.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2006/2003101_Fireback_5927.pdf we are at least warm.


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## oldAGE (Oct 11, 2010)

WarmME - That's good news.  Yes, the upper fireback is cemented in place along the channel but you obviously figured it out and performed a successful job.  Remember that running this stove, like others, is an art rather than a science.  You'll get the hang of it over the course of the burning season.  That which started this thread is still a concern for me but last year, everything ran smoothly albeit still differently than the first seven years of her life.  Anyway...  I am enjoying NOT having fires yet.  We broke all kinds of records over the past couple of days with it hitting nearly 86 on Saturday...  So, I am just letting my seasoned wood enjoy the light breezes and bright sunshine and slowly moving some inside as I feel like it.  Soon enough, I will start those small overnight fires I am sure.  Oh, and by the way, our names are in the blue bar... those below the bar are Hearth.com's nomenclature for our level of participation on this site.  You can call me AGE.  Oh, and for all you 2550 owners out there, I ask this -- Where are we getting our parts these days?  I hope to have another worry free year but you never can tell.
AGE


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