# For you power consumption monitoring types...



## Highbeam (Jun 3, 2013)

So my power use is high. 35 kwh per day with no heat, all electric house, no well pump.

We called the power company and they (without notice or telling us) swapped the meter to a nice, new, digital version and I am logging data.

Here's the question. My base load with nobody home for 24 hours is 12 kwh. How does that compare with your base load? Temps outside are in the 60s and the only thing running is the water heater, hot tub, fridge, and freezer.

Yes, I have a hot tub. It was made within the last 10 years and even when shut off for two months every summer, our power bill remains nearly the same.


----------



## PapaDave (Jun 3, 2013)

HB, that's on the high side of my normal daily usage.
Upright 14 cu ft freezer, elec. stove/oven, elec, dryer, well pump, fridge, lcd big screen, 2 laptops, all cfl's, air purifier runs 24/7.
My meter is barely moveing when I first get up in the a.m......then the coffee maker makes it go crazy.
You've got something sneaking power...somewhere.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 3, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> You've got something sneaking power...somewhere.


 
I am able to conclude that 12 is my base load and that an additional 20 per day is from activity in the home by people doing things. If you're able to run near 12 total then I've got two problems, high baseload and a high action consumption.

It's killing me. My main panel cover is off, has been for a week, and I have the clamp on ampmeter testing for leaks with no culprits found.

One of the next steps is to shut off big things one at a time when we will be gone for a day and note the difference in base load. At some point I will shut off all breakers and see if I have any consumption.

I am fairly certain that my water heater is to blame but all of my research has concluded that there is little that can go wrong with an electric tank heater. Even if it was half full of mud and the elements coated in scale.

The ampmeter has shown me that my modern flat top electric range/oven has a constant 24 watt vampire draw. Weird.


----------



## PapaDave (Jun 3, 2013)

Start with the water heater. Shut 'er down. You'll find out quickly if it's the culprit.
You know this though.


----------



## begreen (Jun 3, 2013)

Must be the porn server in the garage.  j/k 

Are there any lights running during the daytime? Computer, UPS?


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 3, 2013)

Two fridges, my wife's LCD TV and DVR all running 24 hours a day and my computer on 12 hours a day with a laptop running the security cameras flat lines between 14 and 15 KWH a day. When the two window units are running in the heat we average 30 KWH a day. Dishwashing, baths and clothes washing pumps five more a day. Haven't used the dryer except for sheets in a long time.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> Must be the porn server in the garage.  j/k
> 
> Are there any lights running during the daytime? Computer, UPS?


 
We shut down everything after use, even the computer. For the base load determination there were no lights or computer for that period at all. I would call those things active consumption.

The only person serving porn in my garage is not hooked up to the grid.

BB, do you have electric water heat?


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 3, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> BB, do you have electric water heat?


 
Yep. The joint is all electric. But just the two of us old retired folks here. You are using more than we were when I had three large servers and commercial UPS units running in the basement.

I have daily logs going back to 2007. I just looked at them and on a July 90 degree day in 2008 I had to drain the water heater and refill it with our ice cold well water. One A/C was running upstairs. The 24 hour usage was 33 KWH. That was with the servers and UPSs running. Base load back then was 17 KWH a day without the A/C. The servers and communications rack were shut down at night for eight to nine hours.


----------



## maple1 (Jun 3, 2013)

Just happened to open this with my bills in front of me.

We get billed in two month periods. The absolute max our daily consumption has been was 31.1 kwh/day, that was last October/November after just getting the new electric weater heater on line. The last bill in front of me is for this past March-April, at 19.7kwh/day - electric tank has been shut off since January after getting the boiler all hooked up & running. Family of 5. Liberal use of dryer, upright freezer, a fridge that I know is not working efficiently, my computer on pretty well 24/7, 4 TVs in the place, two PS3's. We could be doing a lot better. I was actually pretty surprised to see the last one dip below 20 - gives me a bit of an extra incentive to burn some wood this summer once in a while for DHW even if it is 80° out.

I have to think the hot tub would draw quite a bit?


----------



## velvetfoot (Jun 3, 2013)

We just got a bill too.  It was 14 kwh/day for most of may and a little april in 2013 and 8 kwh/day last year.  We now have an electric water heater.  There are two of us.  My wife is retired, so she's home.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 3, 2013)

On very odd occasions our KWH usage drops like a rock. I know that the TV and DVR upstairs have been turned off. My wife is disabled and that damned setup is pretty much her life 24/7 so what the hell. TVs cost me more than the electricity. She burns up one every two years like clockwork. I paid $40 for the only extended warranty I ever bought in my life last month when I replaced that TV again. A four year full replacement warranty. I will get my $40 worth two years from now.


----------



## GaryGary (Jun 3, 2013)

Hi,
You might want to pick up a TED power monitor http://www.theenergydetective.com

While most people use them to monitor total house power, they can easily be used to monitor individual circuits (120 or 240 VAC) by clipping the current transforms over the wires for the circuit of interest.  It will then continuously monitor power for that circuit and give you a nice plot for a full day (or more).

I think there are now some competing brands out there that do the same sort of thing.

Gary


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

I replaced the water heater breaker last night. I had no idea that they weren't supposed to buzz or hum a bit. The new one is silent. I doubt it will change my consumption but it could prevent a problem with the buss bar down the road.

My daughter took a shower to test the breaker and I took some data. The water heater turned on within two minutes after the shower started, 12 minute shower, and it ran for a total of 40 minutes for just under 3 kwh for her 12 minute shower. Not bad. I was a little surprised to see the heater come on so soon after the shower started. I am expecting that there is a decent amount of mud on the bottom of the tank. Each shower costs us 30 cents.

The hot tub has a 60 amp breaker but since we shut it down for one to two months every summer, I can conclude that it is not a big draw. Even our summertime usage is high. When I am able to log power use you can bet that I will single out this device to analyze the impact.

The new meter is showing a daily average under 30 now for the last week. I do believe that the old meter was reading a bit high.

I did research the TED and one other brand of monitor. They aren't terribly expensive, I will be ordering one for my next gift opportunity. Birthday, Xmas, anniversary, etc. For now, I spend a lot of time with the clamp on ampmeter chasing down loads. Say I notice a 5 amp load on the main, then I go from circuit to circuit until I find and identify the draw, then I have to count breakers and refer to the removed panel cover where the labels are. After awhile I have learned that each significant load has a signature number of amps so I can identify the load by it's draw. For example, 18.5 amps is the water heater and 23 amps is the dryer.


----------



## maple1 (Jun 4, 2013)

There are 4 showers taken per day at my house. Using that 3kwh/shower number, and our rates of around 0.16, that would work out to $55-60/month just for showers. But our electric bill only went up $30/mo when our new 80gal. HWH came on line heating all our hot water - so the 3kwh/shower number seems quite high to me. I also don't think it should heat for much longer than the time the shower is running - electric tanks have very quick recovery times. When I turn mine on, the temps start rising almost immediately.

I suspect a dirty tank/elements. How old is it?


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

maple1 said:


> There are 4 showers taken per day at my house. Using that 3kwh/shower number, and our rates of around 0.16, that would work out to $55-60/month just for showers. But our electric bill only went up $30/mo when our new 80gal. HWH came on line heating all our hot water - so the 3kwh/shower number seems quite high to me. I also don't think it should heat for much longer than the time the shower is running - electric tanks have very quick recovery times. When I turn mine on, the temps start rising almost immediately.
> 
> I suspect a dirty tank/elements. How old is it?


 
I researched electric tank heaters and all of the sites indicated that there is nothing that can go wrong to cause a water heater to overconsume power unless it is leaking. I also suspect dirty tank and elements but what does that have to do with it eating up power? It would appear that your hot water tank is twice as efficient as mine.

Before the new 80 gallon DHW heater did you heat water with something else? If all of your hot water is covered by 30$ then by comparison mine is an energy hog.

Our tank is not new. It was in the house when I bought the house 6 or 7 years ago. So probably 10YO We are on well water so sand is often encountered. The sand on the bottom of an electric tank just lowers the storage volume.

When my water heater is off, it is off, there is no current flow to the elements.

Oh and we have the energy star 2 or 1.5 gpm shower heads so that 12 minute shower was under 25 gallons. Incoming water temp is 55, hot water temp is 120.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 4, 2013)

Yeah my 50 gallon electric water heater would give me heart failure if it ran that 4500 watt element for more than ten minutes.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Yeah my 50 gallon electric water heater would give me heart failure if it ran that 4500 watt element for more than ten minutes.


 
Guys, this could be it. I sat there and watched the 4500 watt element take 35-40 minutes between on and off. Part of that time was the 12 minute shower itself. If that energy isn't heating water then what is it heating?


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 4, 2013)

I have a load of dishes washing right now. Water heater came on for three and a half minutes ago. Don't know what it will do for the whole wash and rinse cycle. I will try to get a delta between the .6 KWH per hour that seems to be the base today without A/C and the average for the time the dishwasher takes to finish.


----------



## TradEddie (Jun 4, 2013)

No idea of my baseline load must measure next time we leave home. For overall consumption, with three of four occupants that love long hot showers, shower flow restrictors removed at install, A/C at 72, one fridge, one TV, one laptop, perhaps 60% CFLs or LEDs, our annual consumption is about 11000kwh/year. This year should have been the sixth straight year of declining usage, but our well pipe was leaking underground and we didn't know for almost two months....
I'm already sure that last winter's air sealing, and my stove mod to prevent downdraft are paying dividends on the a/c bill, I hope to see a total under 10k next year, without sacrificing any comfort.
I took the killawatt around the house, but when I figured those costs on an annual basis the only thing I changed was moving a halogen upright lamp to the guest bedroom.

TE


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

TradEddie said:


> No idea of my baseline load must measure next time we leave home. For overall consumption, with three of four occupants that love long hot showers, shower flow restrictors removed at install, A/C at 72, one fridge, one TV, one laptop, perhaps 60% CFLs or LEDs, our annual consumption is about 11000kwh/year. This year should have been the sixth straight year of declining usage, but our well pipe was leaking underground and we didn't know for almost two months....
> I'm already sure that last winter's air sealing, and my stove mod to prevent downdraft are paying dividends on the a/c bill, I hope to see a total under 10k next year, without sacrificing any comfort.
> I took the killawatt around the house, but when I figured those costs on an annual basis the only thing I changed was moving a halogen upright lamp to the guest bedroom.
> 
> TE


 
All electric, wood for heat only?


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 4, 2013)

The dishwasher running and the hot water it used came in @ around 2.35 KWH.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Jun 4, 2013)

Those figures seem really high. We don't have an electric hot water heater, but we do have a well. Dishwasher runs once per day as well as a load of laundry in the washer and drier. Family of 5 here.
Second column is monthly useage, then days, then cost/month, units per day, cost per day. (Much more on my spreadsheet, but don't want more folks calling me a dork, lol)

On another note, my mother in law lives alone, and also has similar appliances to us. The only difference is that she has an electric hot water heater, and also a hot tub...and her bill was like double ours.....I bet if you disconnect the hot tub you will see a big drop

May 12 466 34 63.55 13.706 $1.869
June 12 437 27 59.28 16.185 $2.196
July 12 456 32 61.69 14.250 $1.928
August 12 503 32 67.66 15.719 $2.114
Sept 12 392 29 53.59 13.517 $1.848
Oct 408 29 55.61 14.069 $1.918
Nov 528 34 73.39 15.529 $2.159
Dec 12 552 35 77.14 15.771 $2.204
Jan 13 482 27 67.88 17.852 $2.514
Feb 445 28 62.12 15.893 $2.219
March 474 28 69.37 16.929 $2.478
April 499 34 73.02 14.676 $2.148
5642 369 784.30 15.290 $2.125


----------



## maple1 (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I researched electric tank heaters and all of the sites indicated that there is nothing that can go wrong to cause a water heater to overconsume power unless it is leaking. I also suspect dirty tank and elements but what does that have to do with it eating up power? It would appear that your hot water tank is twice as efficient as mine.
> 
> Before the new 80 gallon DHW heater did you heat water with something else? If all of your hot water is covered by 30$ then by comparison mine is an energy hog.
> 
> ...


 
We had a tankless coil in an oil/wood boiler that had to be kept warm year round. I am some glad that is gone now.

My intitial thought was that if things are really dirty in there, it would take a while for the heat to get out through the dirt to the water. i.e. you're heating dirt and water, and dirt doesn't usually transfer/hold heat as well as water. But that is all inside the tank, which kind of counters that. Any way you can see if the tank temp keeps rising after the elements switch off? It doesn't have an element right at the bottom does it? Not warm to the touch either? I would defintely do some more monitoring of it.


----------



## velvetfoot (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm not sure what this might mean, but does the meter read anything with the main breaker off?
Maybe you could turn everything off and see what the load is?
Maybe turn a breaker on one at a time?


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

I am not convinced that the hot water heater is your problem. First, unless it leaks water it should contribute very little to the 12 kWh base-load you have. Essentially, only the amount of energy needed to keep the water at 120 F. (Btw. That seems a bit low; are not 140 F recommended to avoid bacterial growth?) Second, a 4500 element can heat ~30 gallons of water by 60 F in one hour. ( http://www.contractorsinstitute.com...al PDF's/First Hour Delivery of Hot Water.pdf ) If the shower was indeed about 20 gallons you would have expected 40 min; right what you have measured. Thus, unless you lose continuously hot water somewhere (can you turn off the outlet?) I would look elsewhere. If your fridge and freezer are relatively standard models they should not consume more than 2 kWh each per day especially if no one is at home. Even accounting for the hot water heater and the hot tub I suspect you lose at least 5 kWh per day in your base load. That is a lot and may warrant to get an efficiency contractor or an electrician in if you cannot find the culprit.


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

P.S. You can find a lot of good advice here: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/whyhigh.html including how to find out if your circuits are leaking power.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

velvetfoot said:


> I'm not sure what this might mean, but does the meter read anything with the main breaker off?
> Maybe you could turn everything off and see what the load is?
> Maybe turn a breaker on one at a time?


 
I shut off all breakers and then renergized one at a time and found nothing of significance. No unaccounted for leaks and no current flow when the main was shut off. This was only possible with the fancy ampmeter.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam, don't you have a detached shop / out-building?  Are you accounting for what's being drawn there?


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

Sure it is not the hot tub?
"The actual usage will depend on several factors such as size of the tub, the outdoor air temperature, the insulation levels of the tub and how often the top is off the tub. Older hot tubs average between 10 and 20 kwh per day. That translates to about $25 to $50 per month on your power bill. Newer, energy efficient models use between 5 and 7 kwh per day or about $12 to $17 per month."
from: http://www.clearwaterpower.com/BobsBlog/default.asp?Display=48
Sounds very much like the amount of base-load electricity you are looking for.

Added on: Wow, that is a lot. At 10 kWh a day that is roughly 1/3 of the electricity consumption of an average household. We are really spoiled by the cheap energy we had all those decades.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Grisu said:


> P.S. You can find a lot of good advice here: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/whyhigh.html including how to find out if your circuits are leaking power.


 
I read that site for hours and it has lots of good material. He says that water heating consumes the same kwh as lighting and amount 1.5 times the refrigeration kwh. All point towards water heating being a very small part of the bill if everything is working properly.

He says 850 per month is avergage and shameful. This is for an all electric home heated with electric. I am over 1000 per month with 100% wood heat.

The plan of attack is to leave the home and shut off the water heater. Note the base load. Discover how much of the baseload is represented by the water heater. Then repeat with the spa.

Regardless of the base load figures, being home costs us an additional 20 kwh per day. That's a lot. That's more than most peoples entire consumption and we are not wasteful.


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

We just recently got a smart meter installed. Our power utility provides hourly data which really shows the base load (usually ~0.1 kWh) when no one is at home or we are sleeping and what we actually consume. I can even make out how much the washer, dishwasher etc. draw just by remembering when we turned those on. The fridge also seems to come on more often now. Any way you can get those data from your utility?

One start in energy savings would be to turn the shower off while lathering up. Good luck convincing your family though...


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Joful said:


> Highbeam, don't you have a detached shop / out-building? Are you accounting for what's being drawn there?


 
Yes, detached shop powered by a 60 amp circuit through a subpanel in the shop. I was actually able to identify and verfiy the 0.2 amp hardwired smoke detector draw out there. That's it so long as the lights are off. All lights on, it is an 8 amp load.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Sure it is not the hot tub?
> "The actual usage will depend on several factors such as size of the tub, the outdoor air temperature, the insulation levels of the tub and how often the top is off the tub. Older hot tubs average between 10 and 20 kwh per day. That translates to about $25 to $50 per month on your power bill. Newer, energy efficient models use between 5 and 7 kwh per day or about $12 to $17 per month."
> from: http://www.clearwaterpower.com/BobsBlog/default.asp?Display=48
> Sounds very much like the amount of base-load electricity you are looking for.
> ...


 
I have not ruled out the spa yet. It is about 10 years old and was one of the 10,000$ models with spray foam insulation. We do shut it off every summer for at least one month and the bill for that month is only slightly lower so yes, it might be the source of 5-7 kwh per day. Indeed a large part of the base load.

Power is still very cheap IMO. I just don't want to waste it.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Grisu said:


> We just recently got a smart meter installed. Our power utility provides hourly data which really shows the base load (usually ~0.1 kWh) when no one is at home or we are sleeping and what we actually consume. I can even make out how much the washer, dishwasher etc. draw just by remembering when we turned those on. The fridge also seems to come on more often now. Any way you can get those data from your utility?
> 
> One start in energy savings would be to turn the shower off while lathering up. Good luck convincing your family though...


 
My fancy new meter has no visible spinning disc and is all digital. I have no doubt that it can be read frequently. I'll have to look into it at the power company's site. I believe it is a smart meter but not a net meter.

on edit: yes, daily info is available once I set up an online account. I'll have to look into it.

Not much to be saved by military showers. 3 kwh is 30 cents. Truly, my daughters are young and like their dad at that age they are pool rats. Swim team kids that soak in chlorine so often that they don't take showers at home very often at all.

I bet momma's shower consumes 5 kwh.


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I have not ruled out the spa yet. It is about 10 years old and was one of the 10,000$ models with spray foam insulation. We do shut it off every summer for at least one month and the bill for that month is only slightly lower so yes, it might be the source of 5-7 kwh per day. Indeed a large part of the base load.
> 
> Power is still very cheap IMO. I just don't want to waste it.


 
I am wondering whether the reason you saw not a large reduction is because you have an AC running during those months or your fridge/freezer draw that much more. Even if your hot tub is a very efficient model with "only" 5 kWh per day that is 150 kWh in a month. You should be able to make that out. 

Yep, 3 kWh are only 30 cents but it is also 10% of your daily consumption. Cutting that in half is a 5% reduction right there. You have to start somewhere. 

Btw. How many lights do you have in your shop? 8 amp are 900 watt of lighting. Are those fluorescent lights or incadescent?


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Grisu said:


> I am wondering whether the reason you saw not a large reduction is because you have an AC running during those months or your fridge/freezer draw that much more. Even if your hot tub is a very efficient model with "only" 5 kWh per day that is 150 kWh in a month. You should be able to make that out.
> 
> Yep, 3 kWh are only 30 cents but it is also 10% of your daily consumption. Cutting that in half is a 5% reduction right there. You have to start somewhere.
> 
> Btw. How many lights do you have in your shop? 8 amp are 900 watt of lighting. Are those fluorescent lights or incadescent?


 
We don't use or own AC here in my climate. We actually keep it cooler in the house during the summer since the woodstove is not burning. It stays in the low 70s naturally. I do have an upright freezer in my garage that will sees higher temps in the summer but that's it and the reduced light use probably balances that out. We do see a dip in consumption without the tub but it's not huge. 150 is only 15% and on the bar chart that's not much.  

The shop only has 8 fixtures, burning just under 1 amp each per the ballast. Tube T-8s. The shop is bigger than my house at 1800 SF. The lighting level is well below the recommended lumens per SF and the t8s are more efficient that cfls.

Thank you Grisu for taking the time to work through some of this with me.


----------



## Grisu (Jun 4, 2013)

Wow, 1800 sqft of shop. I am just getting jealous here.  900 W are certainly not much for such a space then. I still believe the hot tub may be the major culprit and would flip that off first. Plus, turning that one off will probably have the least impact on your family. I am not sure if I was much of a help but I wish you good luck in your search.


----------



## TradEddie (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> All electric, wood for heat only?


Propane heat primarily, wood at weekends. We still have electric baseboards too but now that we pay full price for that, they'll be used even less than before. Hot water is electric, lots of laundry, everything goes through the dryer. I pay less for electricity than telephone most months, so if I need to cut my budget, the phones will be cut first...

TE


----------



## TradEddie (Jun 4, 2013)

If anyone is monitoring their fridge with a kill-a-watt, be sure to monitor the consumption for several days. Depending on the model, the defrost cycle is programmed to run every few days, and that involves one or even two 250W halogen lamps boiling the water off the coils for several hours. A sensor is supposed to stop the halogens if the far end of the coil is warm before the timer expires, but any problems with the defrost program could cause it to run excessively.

I was surprised how much a dehumidifier draws, but otherwise, unfortunately I found few surprises with my kill-a-watt, my consumption is purely intentional luxuriousness.

TE


----------



## Where2 (Jun 4, 2013)

maple1 said:


> ...electric tanks have very quick recovery times. When I turn mine on, the temps start rising almost immediately.


 
On my 2008 Electric WH, with a 3800W upper element running, I get about 1°F per minute increase in the water temperature measured at the upper element. When mine trips to the lower element (1500W), I get a much slower temperature response. My incoming water is 75°, my upper limit is set at 130°F. I use a cheap harbor freight digital thermometer with remote sensing probe for temp readings. To install the temp sensor, I shut off the breaker to the WH, open the upper element cover, tuck the remote temp probe down between the insulation and the tank wall, carefully route the probe wires away from the 220V element feeds, button the covers back up and turn the breaker for the WH back on.

I've limited my WH run times with a digital timer. I can get my base load for my all electric house as low as 12kWh/day. Middle of the night: things like the fridge, digital clocks, and everything else in the house draw ~0.3kWh to 0.4kWh when it's not air conditioning season. When it's A/C time, (like the last 2 weeks), I'm running 34kWh/day! In July/August I average 43-56kWh/day!

I still conted that sludge and sand in the bottom of the tank will make recovery time longer for this tank when it swaps to running the lower element alone. The sludge will act like a winter jacket around the element making the job of heating water more difficult.

Does your electric WH have two thermostats, and did you adjust both of them?

On my GE i210+ digital smart meter, the equivalent of a spinning disk is represented by three square pixels which turn opaque from left to right in succession. The manual for the GE i210+ is available online. You may wish to search to see whether the manual for your "new" digital meter is available online to determine all the functionsit may provide.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

I've about come to the conclusion that 12 kwh per day base load isn't all bad considering half of that is likely the spa load. I will verify that. The jump from a base load of 12 up to 32 (on average) is the next thing to address and since the spa is already accounted for in the baseload, the 20 kwh jump is all active consumption like bathing, clothes cleaning, cooking, dishwasher, lights, and television. The bulk of that is water heating so even if my water heater is working properly, efficiency improvements in production and consumption of hot water will be the most beneficial.

I am a project guy and I can spend 20 hours in the shop building something in one day. With 8 amps of lighting I just pushed 16 kwh onto that day's bill. This is not common and I will be able to see this spike on a Saturday and know what it is.

I have set up an online access with my utility and I am able to get daily power consumption figures. Not by the hour but by the day. Our consumption is highly variable with mid teens on low days to mid 40s on higher days. I have to assume that this has to do with laundry and dishwasher loads.

Yes, our smart meter has the little eyes that do some sort of blinking or something but nothing useful to me. The digital readout is quite an improvement over the dials though. Sheesh, these smart meters sure have gotten a lot of people excited. It seems people fear some sort of sickness from the communication system.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jun 5, 2013)

My Co-op was surprised when I started ragging on them to get off their butts and get a smart meter out here. Seems it is gonna be a long time coming.


----------



## semipro (Jun 5, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Sheesh, these smart meters sure have gotten a lot of people excited. It seems people fear some sort of sickness from the communication system.


Seems funny to focus on smart meter electromagnetic radiation when there's so many more sources of it out there. 
I think folks don't like them because they can't use a magnet attached to the side of them to slow the spinning disk.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

Even the modern new spa makers are touting how awesome they are being able to only cost an extra 30$ per month to operate. That's 300 kwh in my house.

I will install the newest 1.5 gpm showerhead in the next day or two. They are free for crying out loud.


----------



## begreen (Jun 5, 2013)

I just checked and we are using about 16.5 kwh/day right now for 3 persons in an all electric (old) house. A couple of weeks ago with the heat pump running it was about 24kw/day. This is offset by us averaging about 13kw/day solar generated power in May. June should be even better.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 5, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> ... only cost an extra 30$ per month to operate. That's 300 kwh in my house.


 
If I paid only $0.10 per kWh, I'm not sure I'd be worrying about energy usage.  We were paying well above that in the late 1990's.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

Okay so this is in the mail:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XOZG0Y/ref=pe_309540_26725410_item_image

It's an energy monitor that actually clamps onto the feed lines in my panel instead of measuring pulses or rotations of the meter. Not too expensive, 10 second sample rate, and links to my PC for data analysis.

Yes, we have cheap power but I hate to waste money and energy.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

begreen said:


> I just checked and we are using about 16.5 kwh/day right now for 3 persons in an all electric (old) house. A couple of weeks ago with the heat pump running it was about 24kw/day. This is offset by us averaging about 13kw/day solar generated power in May. June should be even better.


 
That's awesome. Your regular consumption is nearly equal to my use when nobody is home. PSE offers a decent consumption data section online but their connection is slooooow.


----------



## begreen (Jun 5, 2013)

I was surprised to see that too. Our appliances are new and energy star rated, but I run computers plus an office space heater when it's chilly. Not sure why the disparity. I just got onto PSE's website and checked our consumption for last weekend while we were away. It was 9.59 kw last Saturday. This was with the hw heater still on and several vampire loads. Yesterday's consumption was 19.1kw, but with 18.2Kw solar generated @ $0.64/kw, I like that.

One thing I was wondering about, do you have a well with a pump? If so, check to be sure it's not short cycling due to low air in the pressure tank.


----------



## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

begreen said:


> I was surprised to see that too. Our appliances are new and energy star rated, but I run computers plus an office space heater when it's chilly. Not sure why the disparity. I just got onto PSE's website and checked our consumption for last weekend while we were away. It was 9.59 kw last Saturday. This was with the hw heater still on and several vampire loads. Yesterday's consumption was 19.1kw, but with 18.2Kw solar generated @ $0.64/kw, I like that.
> 
> One thing I was wondering about, do you have a well with a pump? If so, check to be sure it's not short cycling due to low air in the pressure tank.


 
My last Saturday, we were gone, was 15 according to the site. Your 9 plus the 7 from my spa and we're in the ballpark. Starting to think I'm okay with my baseload.

We share a well with two other homes but the pump electrical is not on my system. I just have an unmetered service line entering my property.

Yes, this whole week should be excellent for solar electrical production. It's still light at 10pm and sunny all day. This weather is why we tolerate the rain for the rest of the year.


----------



## Where2 (Jun 5, 2013)

Joful said:


> If I paid only $0.10 per kWh, I'm not sure I'd be worrying about energy usage. We were paying well above that in the late 1990's.


Electric costs $0.105/kWh on average here, and YES I do care about it. After property taxes, and insurance expenses, the power bill is the next most expensive annualized expense. It's the largest expense I have direct control over. If my PV system knocks ~$50/mo off my electric bills, then that is $50/mo I have to spend on something else, like acquiring another piece of property where the summers are not 95°F and 90% humidity every day... If I wasn't here running the WH, and other appliances, the PV system would basically operate my A/C for free.


----------



## woodgeek (Jun 6, 2013)

Joful said:


> If I paid only $0.10 per kWh, I'm not sure I'd be worrying about energy usage. We were paying well above that in the late 1990's.


 
What are you spending? I'm a few miles from you and paying a measly 13.4 cents. For 100% wind. Do you need to shop for a better supplier?


----------



## Ashful (Jun 6, 2013)

I'll have to check and see if it has changed, but it was $0.16/kWh in 2011 thru PECO.


----------



## woodgeek (Jun 6, 2013)

Joful said:


> I'll have to check and see if it has changed, but it was $0.16/kWh in 2011 thru PECO.


 
A recent thread.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/change-power-companies-in-pa.100066/
You can probably save a few bucks.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks.  I really need to look into that.  We just went with what we have when we were in the flurry of moving, and have been so busy with repairs and renovations ever since, that we haven't made time to re-visit the subject.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 6, 2013)

Started looking into this, Woodgeek.  Thanks for a new headache!  Will need to start another thread, so I don't hijack Highbeam's thread.


----------

