# Spray Foam Insulation Hazzards!



## Don2222 (Aug 13, 2011)

Hello

Mike Holmes contractors -- see  http://beyondfoam.com/
"Because poor quality work can lead to costly problems such as leaks, fungal growth, poor and costly holes in the insulation barrier" Can good installation work prevent this??

Also if the there is a contaminate on the wood foam's adhesion can be compromised over time. So in older homes the foam may pull away from the wood and moisture can get trapped.

Has anyone had these Spray Foam insulation issues??

Think about the issue below, luckily it is low voltage cat 5. What about high voltage 110 or 220 wiring that can cause a fire!!

Below is the ECO blue Walltite by BASF that is seen on Holmes on Homes that shorts out wiring! 
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-832496.html
ddingle
04-10-07, 08:19 PM
Anyone ever seen spray foam insulation damage wire? The only unusual thing was the fact that they sprayed the attic as well as the outside walls. We are in Minnesota, so insulation is important. We found shorted cat 5 wiring in three different attic locations. We found the damage buried about 8 to 10 inches in the attic foam.
Obviously the foam dries around the wire and is hot when sprayed. The damage looked like the internal conductors got hot for about a foot length of the wire,melting the insulation,but not the outer jacket. Everything else looks OK.
It seemed stretched out as well. Anyone had any problems like this?Or have any insight?
Belden hasn't any record of issues with foam.

Demilec Sealection 500 product has off-gassing from the chemical that may never go away even after removal!!

See belowâ€”Off Gases that do not go away!
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...9/odor-problem-attic-after-spray-foam-applied

*That is why I like Reflectix Foil, Roxul or the Pink Panther Stuff!!*

http://www.roxul.com/residential/save+energy+with+comfortbatt
What is R-value of Roxul?
R-value is the measurement of an insulationâ€™s ability to prevent heat flow. The higher the R-value, the more insulating power it provides. Roxul ComfortBatt delivers top performance for all thermal applications around the home. It is available in the following sizes:

  3Â½â€ thick batts with R-value ratings of R14 and R15 (US only) for use in 2 x 4 exterior wall applications.
  5Â½â€ thick batts with R-value ratings of R22 and R23 (US only) for insulating attics and 2 x 6 framed exterior walls.
  7Â¼â€ think batts with R-value rating of R28 and R30 (US only) for insulating attics and 2 x 8 framed exterior walls.

Equally important, the R-value of Roxul insulation is not affected by water. Roxul ComfortBattâ„¢ does not store or transfer moisture, and itâ€™s completely resistant to mold, mildew, rot and bacterial growth.

Is spray foam toxic? Look at the suits they are wearing! That is a good clue!
Also when there is a fire, the Toxic fumes are really deadly!
Is that why there are no Fire Toxic Tests on their product and they just say smoke from wood can kill too!
Smoke from wood will not kill if you get out in time and only breath some!!


----------



## Swedishchef (Aug 13, 2011)

Don

I have spray foamed my basement walls and have no problems.

When sprayfoaming, the insulator must wear a protective suit that has a positive pressure helmet. The process of sprayfoaming involves spraying 2 chemicals that react together to create a foam. The chemicals litterally mix together at the tip of the spray gun.

These chemicals alone are toxic. They are VOCs (volatile organic compounds). However, once together, they form a stable compound. SPray foam MUST be covered by a fire barier (such as Roxul batts which is what I installed over my 1.5 inches of foam).

It's the same process as making 1 inch foam boards except it's directly happening in front of you and not in a factory.

When foam burns, it gives off toxic gases which can kill. Ever smell/see burning foam? It's no good, that's for sure. 

SPray foam or foam sheets, it's the same result except one can be sprayed and one is rigid.

Andrew


----------



## Don2222 (Aug 13, 2011)

Swedishchef said:
			
		

> Don
> 
> I have spray foamed my basement walls and have no problems.
> 
> ...



Your insulation sounds good. I know there are different brands and different formulations for temp ranges in residential regions. Some brands may be better than others!

What brand is yours and what is the R value with your Roxul in the basement walls?


----------



## Swedishchef (Aug 14, 2011)

Don

I truly have NO idea what brand I have on my walls. None whatsoever. All I know is that it is high density foam. R7 per inch. ANd it's blue. 

On top of my foam, I added some Roxul Comfort Batt, R14. And I have an average of 1.5 inches of spray foam. That gives my basement walls and R value of about 24 or so...from top to bottom.

Andrew


----------



## gpcollen1 (Aug 15, 2011)

Application of the material is 1000 time different than living with it.  Not even sure why you would comment on the applicators tyvek and respiratory equipment??  Know what I wore doing fiberglass?  Tyvek and respirator...


----------



## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2011)

Swedishchef said:
			
		

> Don
> 
> I truly have NO idea what brand I have on my walls. None whatsoever. All I know is that it is high density foam. R7 per inch. ANd it's blue.
> 
> ...



Wow, R24 is nice to have in the walls!! I do suggest you find out the manufacturer, just in case you Ever need any info on it!


----------



## Don2222 (Aug 15, 2011)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Application of the material is 1000 time different than living with it.  Not even sure why you would comment on the applicators tyvek and respiratory equipment??  Know what I wore doing fiberglass?  Tyvek and respirator...



Agree, but fiberglass does not give off noxious fumes and melt electrical wiring! So more caution must be used!


----------



## Sisu (Aug 15, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> CTwoodburner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fiberglass insulation uses chemical binders which can and do off-gas.  Some binders are formaldehyde based.  These will also be released if the fiberglass is burned. Also, working with fiberglass can be hazardous due to inhalation of the particulate. 

Every insulation product has its pros and cons.  The main thing is that you are aware of the hazards and properly wear the appropriate PPE during application.


----------



## peakbagger (Aug 15, 2011)

I did a lot research prior to doing some spray foam on my house. The majority of the issues seem to be the installer. The full tyvek suits are needed as most of the foams are polyurethane blends and once the stuff sets, its on for good, there really arent any solvents. There is also a potential for fine particulate during spraying which will not be good for the lungs. Therefore a tyvek suit & organic respirator with a hepa filter and googles are all proper equipment to use while spraying. Spray foam is exothermic when mixed, the instructions are quite clear that it can only be sprayed to a maximum thickness, anything thicker and it can get real hot. It is also supposed to be sprayed within a tight temperature range, too hot and it will react too quickly. Obviously this takes longer so a small contractor on a low bid is probably going to push it and spray it too thick on a hot day. Its not pleasant work so the folks doing the spraying are going to push it.

Long ago (late seventies) there used to be a lot of complaints about toxic off gassing. The EPA put a hold on residential use for a year while they researched it and it killed the industry. They eventually ruled that it was safe when applied properly. I am not sure of the two chemicals that were mixed but one was cheap and the other was expensive. If the installer used extra of the cheap stuff, the foam had a higher yield but more offgassing, needless to say a lot of houses had offgassing. I also think it leads to excessive shrinkage. This problem may have gone away with newer foam blends but then again maybe not. 

Some of the more competent suppliers switched to selling to only licensed installers, that worked but eventually competitors started selling it to anyone.

I do like the concept of hybrid insulation where a thin coat of spray foam is applied to the exterior wall with the balance of the cavity filled with fiberglass. Unfortunately unless the interior vapor barrier is perfect, there can be issues where moisture gets into the fiberglass and condenses on the foam insiude the wall which is potential for mold.


----------



## Swedishchef (Aug 15, 2011)

Peak,

I did exactly that: 1.5 inches of high density spray foam DIRECTLY on the concrete (including my rim joists, air tight) and then Roxul on top of that. The key to preventing mold is that you must spray enough foam to create a thermal barrier large enough to prevent the cold from coming through. IE: Like a cooler. You can have dry ice in a cooler on a +40 day and there won't be any condensation on the outside as the thermal barrier is big enough.

Works like a charm and insulates like a pig!

Andrew


----------

