# Tesla Powerwall competition is growing



## begreen (Mar 2, 2017)

Aussie article on battery back up options
http://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-...-2-beaten-even-before-first-deliveries-44252/


----------



## peakbagger (Mar 2, 2017)

I just wish this technology was available small enough to for home use http://www.viznenergy.com/microgrid/.

I would be bit worried about bolting power dense lithium batteries that on occasion are known to burst into flames purchased on the least cost basis into my basement. It probably is coming down to that the Chinese government wants to buy this market and they will do whatever they have to sell batteries below any other competitor.


----------



## blades (Mar 2, 2017)

I believe they own a plant in Michigan for making  Li batteries. But don't hold me to that as things get mixed up in the memory banks at times.


----------



## begreen (Mar 2, 2017)

peakbagger said:


> I just wish this technology was available small enough to for home use http://www.viznenergy.com/microgrid/.
> 
> I would be bit worried about bolting power dense lithium batteries that on occasion are known to burst into flames purchased on the least cost basis into my basement. It probably is coming down to that the Chinese government wants to buy this market and they will do whatever they have to sell batteries below any other competitor.


The amount of choices, large and small are listed here on this site. Quite a selection actually. The ampetus super lithium looks quite compact.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/comparison-table/


----------



## Circus (Mar 2, 2017)

A recent Nova, Search for the super battery, is relevant to this topic .


----------



## begreen (Mar 2, 2017)

Go with the flow


----------



## jebatty (Mar 3, 2017)

And also the salt water battery: http://aquionenergy.com/


----------



## peakbagger (Mar 3, 2017)

jebatty said:


> And also the salt water battery: http://aquionenergy.com/



Aquion sure looked like good tech up front but apparently there are some limitations that weren't apparent up front that limit their applicability. I do like that they don't use any hard to extract compounds and that if one were interested they could drink the electrolyte. The problem they have run into is that most of the supporting gear is designed around conventional batteries and their performance curves, Aquion performance  don't line up very well with those curves and they are such a niche player that none of the gear companies will customize a solution. I think they could adopt the approach that the Nickel Iron folks have adopted where they pair compatible equipment into a package. Note NIFE batteries are not a competitor to powerwall type systems as they guzzle distilled water in float mode although their reportedly extremely long life is going to be real attractive when powerwall folks discover that lithium batteries age whether they are used on not.

Of course GE Durathon batteries looked promising and GE spent a lot of money building and then doubling the size of factory to build them and then closed it down. http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/n...-ending-durathonbattery-manufacturing-in.html.


----------



## velvetfoot (Mar 3, 2017)

Are 'super' capacitors still in the mix?


----------



## peakbagger (Mar 3, 2017)

Yup but not for long term storage. http://flexgenpowersystems.com/

The gas drilling folks have issues that they need to run huge generators to have enough power to start a drilling string, the rest of the time the generators are idling. With ultracapacitors, they can run a smaller generator and then use the capacitor banks to fill in for the surge loads. Just think how many folks oversize their generators to deal with the startup surge of well pump, with an ultra capacitor bank they could run much smaller generator. (of course they could switch the pump to variable speed and have the same effect).


----------



## peakbagger (Mar 8, 2017)

Well so much for Aquion https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...einer-Perkins-Funded-Advanced-Battery-Startup


----------



## woodgeek (Mar 10, 2017)

peakbagger said:


> Well so much for Aquion https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...einer-Perkins-Funded-Advanced-Battery-Startup



Very thoughtful article @peakbagger.  Looks like the collapsing prices on the Lithium storage development curve are killing off the competition.  Not unlike the collapsing prices of silicon PV killing off all the Gen III and Gen IV PV technology startups a few years ago.  Or any number of other technology stories from history...like ICE engines killing off Ford-era battery-electric drivetrains.

My favorite part was describing an investment by Bill Gates as 'the kiss of death' for New Energy startups.  LOL.

Are we going to bet on technology in Development and mass deployment, or another of Bill Gates' 'miracles'?


----------

