# PEX Time Saver Pipe - Anyone Using This?



## JMann (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm trying to figure out the best way to run my underground lines from my garage to the house.  I've read a few post in this site and looked elsewhere but haven't made a decision yet.  I just ran across PEX Time Saver Pipe and have had zero luck finding reviews.

Anyone have any experience with this?  -It's very economical (that's why I'm interested and also why I'm questioning it)

Here's a link to what it looks like:  http://cozyheat.net/time.htm


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## taxidermist (Aug 15, 2008)

Cheep means loss of btu all the reviews I have read say unless you want to re do your under ground pipe just buy the good stuff the first time.


Rob


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## MarlinFishing2011 (Apr 28, 2010)

I installed Time Saver Pipe in the fall of 2008. I buried 80 ft. to my barn and 175 ft. to my house. My brother-in-law got a different stove and purchased a more expensive foam filled pipe. We both ran a test on temp loss and I found that mine lost 1 degree on the 80 ft. run and 3 degrees on the 175 ft. run. He ran the same test on similar distances and we both had comparable numbers for heat loss. For the price it’s a steal, more expensive is not always better. I would recommend this pipe to anyone.


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## mrhaney (Apr 29, 2010)

if your going to put it in use the pex-al-pex  time saver it is a true 1 inch ID where pex is 7/8 ID there is a lot of volume diff in the two


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## rwh442 (Apr 29, 2010)

I bought this pipe from Cozy Heat in 2008 - no issues so far.  It is pex-al-pex with 1" inner diameter.  Four wraps.  Time will tell.


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## juddspaintballs (Apr 29, 2010)

I have no comment on quality and such for it, but at $7/ft, that is $700 for a 100' run.  You can buy two 100' sections of O2 barrier pex for $180, 100' of 4" drain pipe for $70, and 125'x4' of the same insulating foil for $100 and assemble 100' of time saver pipe for half of what it costs to buy it pre-assembled.  

Or, from all reports of people who have had their pipes spray foamed into the ground, you could run the 1" pipes ($180) and have it spray foamed in place for a couple hundred dollars, which is still cheaper than time saver pipe.


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## deerhntr (Apr 29, 2010)

JMann said:
			
		

> I'm trying to figure out the best way to run my underground lines from my garage to the house.  I've read a few post in this site and looked elsewhere but haven't made a decision yet.  I just ran across PEX Time Saver Pipe and have had zero luck finding reviews.
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this?  -It's very economical (that's why I'm interested and also why I'm questioning it)
> 
> Here's a link to what it looks like:  http://cozyheat.net/time.htm



I would not use this solution. First, if you look at the supply and return, there is no insulating gap between the tubes. That means you will have a thermal transfer from supply to return down the entire length of the pipe. The longer the run, the worse the loss. Check out marlin fishing's post for confirmation. Second, all you need is water to infiltrate the corrugated pipe, and your wrapped  insulation is compromised, and more heat loss.  You need a water tight solution. If you then are required to replace your pex, any savings goes right out the window. Check out Tennman's post on replacing his home made insulated pex after just one season of use.

Just some numbers to show what loss on the pex lines cost. Let's say we lose 3F degrees(Marlin fishing's number) on both supply and return at 10 GPM. That works out to 3.6K BTU/HR. Then assume a 200 day heating season, and 24/7 pumping, you get 17.3 Million BTUs of loss. That is roughly a cord of wood each year. That loss will quickly negate any savings from the cheaper pex solution. 

I spent approximately $12/foot (supply/return) for 1 1/4" pex, and closed cell foam sprayed insulation. My measurements show *zero* temp difference loss over the complete loop. The data was collected with very accurate Dallas one-wire temp sensors. The extra cost of roughly $500 over the cheaper stuff has already paid for itself in one season.

Please think it through. There are a bunch of posts on this forum where the topic is heat loss from less than ideal underground pex installs. I can say first hand, this portion of the DIY Wood Boiler job is one of the more time/energy/dollars comsuming, so the right choice will pay dividends in the long haul.


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## heaterman (Apr 29, 2010)

I guess the answer would depend on your budget and your tolerance of wasted BTU's. Personally, I have not seen real great results with any underground of that type. There are lot's of brands that are similar with the basic 2 tube wrapped with bubble or foil/foam of some kind. Water infiltration is a huge issue unless great care is taken with preparing a sand bed for the tube to lay in as well as proper backfilling with sand at least 6" over the tube bundle. Hunks of clay or rock will crush the outer jacket and in many cases crack it allowing ground moisture to get inside. I've seen a lot of them dug back up.


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## shagy (Apr 30, 2010)

Neighbor has a outdoor boiler 60 ' from home using Thermo Pex at 12" No snow melt. His dad hooked to same furnace bought this bubble wrap stuff . He buried it at 4'. He has a path about 5' wide to his home ,no snow. I would say pay now or pay forever...... your choice.


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## CozyMan (May 5, 2010)

I'll have another product on my website shortly.  In my opinion, the quality/heat loss should be somewhere between the time saver and the urethane filled pipes.
I also agree that the urethane filled system is somewhat better, but the price for the difference is substantial.  The new one that I'll have on the site will be about a dollar more (maybe two).
Hopefully I'll have good details soon.
Dave


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## Tennman (May 6, 2010)

I saved $400-500 with my DIY insulated Pex approach in the corregated black pipe. It only cost me $2000 to dig it up and do it right so I wasn't dumping lots of energy into the dirt. I sprayed mine in place. My role in life on this forum will be to preach that the underground element is the last place to try to save $100's.


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## charly (May 6, 2010)

I too learned the hard way. 65 feet of homemade pex with the bubble wrap, each pipe wrapped separately and then pulled inside of 4 inch black corragated drain pipe. By the second winter I had an 8 foot area melted around the pipe where it came out of the ground. When my stove topped off, I could watch the temperature needle drop. What a sick feeling that was in January. Dug it up that spring to find two holes in the pipe from some rocks. It was heating ground water. Spent the money and bought LOGSTOR pipe. 12 dollars a foot, but never an issue again. Do it once and go for the inch and a quarter pipe, if it warrants.


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## flyingcow (May 6, 2010)

I've got a dairy farmer thats using something very similiar. Worked "good" fro the first yr or two. Last winter, big heat loss, long run. looks like he has to put the better stuff in. I think it's a combination of the cheap wrap and lack of strength, water problems. 

I had short run(about 50ft). i don't have a foam contractor close, so i went with Thermopex. No heat loss, and i have about 15ft exposed in my unheated garage. Very/very cold in garage, put my hands on the thermopex, couldn't feel any heat.


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## Sawyer (May 7, 2010)

I have a neighbor that has the bubble wrapped PEX, 270’. He had bare, unfrozen spots in the driveway all winter and melted snow to the house.
My other neighbor Bill and I had the PEX foamed in a trench; we measured his this winter and could not measure a change in temperature. His is only one foot below the ground and there was not any indication in the snow blanket. I am sure happy I followed the advice of this forum and did it well the first time.


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## charly (May 7, 2010)

My neighbor also ran 75 feet of the time saver pipe, buried 4 feet deep. Melts the snow from the stove to the house. Big heat loss there. Has a regular OWB and goes thru tons of wood. He's always chasing wood. That would seem to take the fun out of burning wood. :ahhh:


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## heaterman (May 8, 2010)

FYI, and if it means anything at all, my personal favorite in the prefabbed underground stuff of superior quality is Microflex. Excellent insulation and very nice to work with due to the multiple layers of insulation inside the jacket. Pricey but very very good stuff.  It also comes in what is called 32mm size which is between nominal 1" and 1-1/4" pex size. Same price as the 1" product.

It's available from various sources.

http://www.microflex.be/en/catalogus/hot-water/microflex-duo.aspx

Put it in the ground and forget about it.


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