# BK Princess need help



## Illinois burner (Nov 26, 2014)

I just installed my new  BK princess about 2 weeks ago. Not what I had imagined. I have 8% red and white oak and red elm. I'm getting an average of 3 hour actually burn times. I do get an impressive bed of coals. My house is 1064 sqft down stairs with a fairly open floor plan.  Upstairs is 354 sqft. It seems to struggle to reach mid 70's while mid 20's outside. When I first started burning I noticed the thermostat wasn't working correctly.  I was advised from the factory to take the rear cover plate off and control it manually until my new thermostat comes in. A little discouraging considering this is brand spanking  new and not cheap. I've done the door test multiple times.  My pipe is double wall 6 inch from stove to cap. 2 feet up to 2 45's, 2 feet out the wall,  Tee and cap, 15 feet up. This is about 5 feet higher than peek. The main thing that concerns me is I have a lot of flames all the time, no matter the temp,  when I thought it was supposed to be a smolder. My stove top hits between 400° and 650°. I'm ready to pull my hair out. I would appreciate any feedback.  It's my first cat-stove.  I have burned wood my whole life. I'm hoping the new thermostat will help with burn times, however am more interested in adjustment to bypass door. I haven't found much information on it other than 9/16 is the bolt size.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 26, 2014)

Paging @BKVP

Call in the lobby for BKVP.


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## jeff_t (Nov 26, 2014)

Is this with the new thermostat? Do you still have the cover off? Is the butterfly open at all?

The bypass adjustment shouldn't have much effect on what you are experiencing. It is a pretty substantial piece, and just the weight of it should hold it mostly closed, if nothing else. Does it feel like it is locking firmly?


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## BKVP (Nov 26, 2014)

This is BKVP,  may I help?

Illinois Burner....if you turn the thermostat knob completely so that you see the blade close, does the flame disappear?

We have had a few issues lately with a line person not securing the set screw on the thermostat knob.  So when the knob is turned, it is just spinning on the shaft.  Can you verify the blade is in fact closing down and if the flame is diminishing?

I will continue to try and help you via this blog today, tomorrow or Friday.

Chris


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## BKVP (Nov 26, 2014)

Jeff is right...don't touch the by pass....and it's a 7/16" nut and bolt.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 26, 2014)

I don't have the new thermostat yet. The butterfly seems to operate fine while cold. Once it heats up it closes and chokes the fire out completely


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## BKVP (Nov 26, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I don't have the new thermostat yet. The butterfly seems to operate fine while cold. Once it heats up it closes and chokes the fire out completely



So with the blade open about 1/8", will stove burn a full load in 3 hours?  Would you be kind enough to just prop the blade about 1/8", weigh a load of fuel, and place it on a hot coal bed.  Please make a note of the time loaded and get a total burn time for me?


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

I did what you asked. I weighed the wood at 32 lbs. 3 pieces of red oak and 1 piece of red elm. I loaded it at 9:00 p.m. The coal bed was  about an inch under the door. It burned 4 hours before turning to coals and temperatures dropping. I just loaded it again nearly the same.  I will be getting up to load it again in about 4 hours. I did notice when Turing the dial for the thermostat that the dial turns way past the 1 setting counterclockwise to about 10 o'clock and past 3 1/2 clockwise to about 8 o'clock.  Is that normal?


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## turbojoe (Nov 27, 2014)

When turned all the way clockwise, the dial should point 6 o'clock. I found that in the BK thread. That's how mine is.


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## blueguy (Nov 27, 2014)

You are closing the bypass when it gets up to temp right?


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## BKVP (Nov 27, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I did what you asked. I weighed the wood at 32 lbs. 3 pieces of red oak and 1 piece of red elm. I loaded it at 9:00 p.m. The coal bed was  about an inch under the door. It burned 4 hours before turning to coals and temperatures dropping. I just loaded it again nearly the same.  I will be getting up to load it again in about 4 hours. I did notice when Turing the dial for the thermostat that the dial turns way past the 1 setting counterclockwise to about 10 o'clock and past 3 1/2 clockwise to about 8 o'clock.  Is that normal?


Yes that is normal.


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## BKVP (Nov 27, 2014)

So IlBurner.....you got a 4 hour burn on 32lbs of fuel? If so, you burned 132,000 Btu's or about 33,600 per hour average.    That's pretty warm and you should have seen some flame at that burn rate.  Was the thermostat blade nearly closed for the entire 4 hours?  You have about 17' of total vertical rise, stove to cap as I read the original post.

Why only 32 lbs?  Based upon your wood species, you should be able to get 60+ lbs into the stove.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

I am closing the  bypass. This is why I wondered about the bypass adjustment. The stove has a lot of flames. I'm getting  air from somewhere. I need to get a thermometer in the flue pipe somehow to check my true flue temp. I had single wall to begin with and it registered around 250°. I have the same thermometer on the outside of the double wall now and it reads  around 100° but that is not accurate flue temperature. Just kinda lost. I'm anxious to get the new thermostat to see if there is a change. Hopefully  I can get that cruise control effect.


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## BKVP (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks...leaving for bit to hunt.  Please see if you can get back to me with answers to all the above....happy thanksgiving and we'll get this sorted out.


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

I can kill all flames with the bypass open, by turning the knob.

Like Chris asked, it's important to know the position of the blade during the burn. If you can close it all the way and it stays there, you have air getting in from somewhere. If it is opening more than a hair, then something is going on with the thermostat.

There really is nowhere else for air to get in, unless you have a bad weld or really bad gasket or a hole or something.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

That was open 1/8 " for all 4 hours. I couldn't load anymore wood than that. Like I said the coals are filled up to the door leaving 9 inches of loadable space.


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

Well, you do have to burn those coals down. It is part of the process. I open the air all the way, and if it isn't making enough heat I will put a really small split on top of the pile. Keep pulling the coals up to the door until they are burned up. If it's up to the bottom of the door, you probably have 3-4 hours of heat there.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

I understand the coals produce a lot of heat, however while reading on 30 hour burn times,  I didn't believe I would have to get up in the middle of the night to rake coals for extended heat. I got 4 hour burn times out of my old wonderwood smoke dragon. I have also burned 3/4 of a cord. This seems excessive compared to many other people's post. I'm not trying to downgrade this stove.  I believe there is a issue with mine or the operator is an idiot. I'm just trying to get help from people that know these stoves better than I do. I work 10 hour+ days and was looking for a stove to maintain the heat while I am gone. I will gladly try anything suggested to figure this out


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

Totally understand.

What does the fire look like when the thermostat is completely closed? It should be dark. There is a small hole that lets in just a bit of air, it's on the flapper of the Princess, I believe.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

When it's completely closed it will not have flames,  however within and hour is almost out where you can put your hand on the top of the stove.


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

How long has that wood been split and stacked? Do you have a moisture meter?

With dry wood and decent draft, you should be able to burn with no flame in the box, just utilizing the heat from the cat.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

I have also tried loading it front to back and side to side. Has anyone noticed any difference either way


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

We had a storm 4 years ago that uprooted all the trees. I cut the root balls off that winter. The following spring I brought all the wood home and split it. It's been  seasoning since. I'm do have a meter and it's sitting around 8%. I have tested a few pieces at 11%. It's not doughty. It's all cut between 16 and 18 inches. Most is 6 to 8 inches in diameter splits with some smaller for tight fills.


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## Rickb (Nov 27, 2014)

Sounds like wet wood.  If you cant get it hot then turn it down with out it going out there usually is only 2 things that cause that.  Week Draft, and wet wood.


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## Rickb (Nov 27, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> We had a storm 4 years ago that uprooted all the trees. I cut the root balls off that winter. The following spring I brought all the wood home and split it. It's been  seasoning since. I'm do have a meter and it's sitting around 8%. I have tested a few pieces at 11%. It's not doughty. It's all cut between 16 and 18 inches. Most is 6 to 8 inches in diameter splits with some smaller for tight fills.




Did you resplit the wood before testing?


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

Two 45s + one 90 is lowering your effective chimney height considerably. If your wood really is that dry, consider adding some height. You could temporarily try a 3-4' section of cheap single wall before you add another piece of class A.


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## BKVP (Nov 27, 2014)

Rickb said:


> Sounds like wet wood.  If you cant get it hot then turn it down with out it going out there usually is only 2 things that cause that.  Week Draft, and wet wood.



Back from the hunt....Rick is correct.  Weak draft or wet fuel.  Heck, you should get 60lbs or more into that stove so more than 50% of your capacity is filled with ash and coals.  You should be able to get down to about 12k Btu's/hr on the low burn.  At 34k, your more like a medium burn rate.  In this case, you are loosing the effective range of the top end to low end variability.

Draft or set wood sounds about right.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes I do split again before testing.  I test in the grain and not the ends. I've been burning wood all my life. My Dad started me young. I've always been taught to cut and split  at least 2 years before burning. I only cover my wood in rain or snow. My coals burned out in about 2 hours. This all tells me that somehow I'm getting to much air. I get lots of heat while burning. This proves to me the wood is dry. What does the stove top normally run for temp and at what setting?  Mine runs around 600° in the front center and 550° on the sides of the top


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## turbojoe (Nov 27, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Yes I do split again before testing.  I test in the grain and not the ends. I've been burning wood all my life. My Dad started me young. I've always been taught to cut and split  at least 2 years before burning. I only cover my wood in rain or snow. My coals burned out in about 2 hours. This all tells me that somehow I'm getting to much air. I get lots of heat while burning. This proves to me the wood is dry. What does the stove top normally run for temp and at what setting?  Mine runs around 600° in the front center and 550° on the sides of the top


 I am using 18% Ash, I normally run 425/500 center of stove top on #2, with 8 to 10 hour burns, burn pot maybe 3/4 full. Lots of variables, every set up is different.
I would have to run it wide open for awile to see 600 S.T.


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## BKVP (Nov 27, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Yes I do split again before testing.  I test in the grain and not the ends. I've been burning wood all my life. My Dad started me young. I've always been taught to cut and split  at least 2 years before burning. I only cover my wood in rain or snow. My coals burned out in about 2 hours. This all tells me that somehow I'm getting to much air. I get lots of heat while burning. This proves to me the wood is dry. What does the stove top normally run for temp and at what setting?  Mine runs around 600° in the front center and 550° on the sides of the top


That is quite hot for that burn rate....is there an ash hole or plug that is not sealing or is the front door loose?  I would agree you must have an air leak in order to burn that hot and shortened burn times.  Can you do a thorough flashlight inspection for me?

Chris


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## jeff_t (Nov 27, 2014)

Chris, he says that he can't burn with the thermostat completely closed (post #20).

Seventeen feet of total rise, with fifteen of that being outside, plus two directional changes, says not enough draft. Having to overcome that with more input air is keeping temps up and killing burn times. 

At least that's my theory.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 27, 2014)

Yes. We spoke on the phone.  I did as you said and put high temp silicone on the ash plug. Door is tight. Not sure where else to look. Tell me about the flashlight test


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## jtb51b (Nov 28, 2014)

Just curious, but when you shut your door does it seem to touch at the top or bottom first and then flex to fit when you latch the door?  Be careful when you put the new thermostat in not to over seal it. Too much sealant can drip down onto the mechanism and foul things up. Do you notice your cat glowing at all?

Jason


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## Illinois burner (Nov 28, 2014)

jtb51b said:


> Just curious, but when you shut your door does it seem to touch at the top or bottom first and then flex to fit when you latch the door?  Be careful when you put the new thermostat in not to over seal it. Too much sealant can drip down onto the mechanism and foul things up. Do you notice your cat glowing at all?
> 
> Jason


I do get the glow from the cat. The door seems to close true and even. When I took the cover off to manually adjust the butterfly it came right off. I didn't have to pry it off. There was a dab of silicone about the size of a pencil eraser on it. Really hoping the new thermostat comes soon. I ordered it the Tuesday  before last.


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## jtb51b (Nov 28, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I do get the glow from the cat. The door seems to close true and even. When I took the cover off to manually adjust the butterfly it came right off. I didn't have to pry it off. There was a dab of silicone about the size of a pencil eraser on it. Really hoping the new thermostat comes soon. I ordered it the Tuesday  before last.



The cover you removed, if its the black cover that allows access to the butterfly, is not where the silicone can foul you up. When you remove the thermostat entirely to replace it you will see what I am talking about. Glad your door is closing true.  Thats terrible that is takes that long to get the parts shipped to you. I too waited a good while on a replacement thermostat and some other parts (about 8 days) but two weeks is just absurd. The USPS will ship across country in a flat rate box in 3 days!  Good luck, hopefully you will get it running soon and enjoy it. 

Jason


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## drz1050 (Nov 29, 2014)

Have you done the dollar bill test on the door?


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## Illinois burner (Nov 29, 2014)

Yes I have. In five different spots. I have noticed everything burning more evenly loading it left to right. Who knows. Getting very  aggrevated. I loaded it last night at midnight with the house at 73° woke up at 7 to a few coals and the house was 60°. The low last night was 34° and not much wind.


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## jeff_t (Nov 29, 2014)

Have you inspected welds and such? This is the bottom of the door frame on my sister's King that I rescued for her. The entire length of the door was like that. No penetration into the frame.





But you say the fire basically goes out if you close the thermostat all the way?


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## rdust (Nov 29, 2014)

The chimney setup is less than ideal with 2 45's after only a 2' rise.  Also tell us about the oak, how long has it been cut/split/stacked?  Your old stove could burn anything, the new stove will be picky.  

I honestly can't imagine burning that much wood in that amount of time.   Also try closing the windows on the next load!


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## rdust (Nov 29, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Yes I have. In five different spots. I have noticed everything burning more evenly loading it left to right. Who knows. Getting very  aggrevated. I loaded it last night at midnight with the house at 73° woke up at 7 to a few coals and the house was 60°. The low last night was 34° and not much wind.



I can't believe you would lose that much temp if you had a stone cold stove!  13* over 7 hours when it's not freezing seems like a lot!


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## Skidooer (Nov 30, 2014)

I know exactly what you are going thru. I had a similar ordeal before I finally had a reputable dealer come and check things out. I then upgraded to the King Ultra from the Princess. 
My stove was undersized and I struggled with it for 4 months, I called BK, changed parts, spent hours on forums, had 3 three different ppl check it out (all lied to me that it was not over drafting) BS! 
The only reason I got my issue resolved was I got ahold of a dealer that actually burns a King in his house! He walked in and said "ya it's way too small". You need to get someone who knows these stoves to look at your wood, pipe setup, installation and your stove to see what the heck is going on. That's the only reason I'm still burning a BK! It cost me 200$ to get him there and a few phone calls but Jim at Rideau Valley got me fixed up with the King and it's been noting but ashes since! Just my 2c, I know how frustrated you are. Hoping I could help you out in some way.


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## drz1050 (Nov 30, 2014)

Skidoer, the house in question is just over 1400 sq ft...  I think the Princess should be able to heat that space fairly easily.


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## Skidooer (Nov 30, 2014)

You missed my point completely! I'm saying that he should physically have someone look at the stove / problem who knows Blaze King stoves. Not many ppl understand these units completely and how they are supposed to run. I had 3 different licenced ppl look at my issue and none of them could figure it out before Jim came out.


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## BKVP (Nov 30, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Yes. We spoke on the phone.  I did as you said and put high temp silicone on the ash plug. Door is tight. Not sure where else to look. Tell me about the flashlight test



sorry to delay in responding.  Seattle got snow and the airport was a mess.  Now I'm in Fairbanks!

It's not so much a test as more an inspection.  Using a flashlight, please check for welds around each seam.  For the burn times you are getting, this would not be a tiny missing weld....if there is one.  Let me know if you have any questions at all.  Have you asked the dealer to come take a look.

Quickly, I know this is frustrating, but you have my word we will work on this to get it resolved.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 30, 2014)

Well I have received and changed out my thermostat.  The coil seemed to be loose and wound to tight where the hook wouldn't catch the arm that controls the flapper. There was spots around the thermostat housing that didn't have silicone around them which may have leaked more air but I doubt it was much. I haven't had time to check the welds yet. I will give it a good look over tomorrow. There has been a big change in the burn.  I've noticed that the wood isn't  blazing like before.  I now have the dancing flames by the cat. I'm finally getting a good bed of coals so I'm interested to see what she will do tonight. How much difference do people notice in heat from 1 to 3. I would think it would be significantly less. I'm just curious since I only got and hour different burn time before.  I'm really hoping that the princess is big enough Skidooer.  I would hate myself if I had to buy 8 inch flue and a bigger stove.  I have over $4000 invested in the entire setup, and that's me doing all the work. Will post burn times tomorrow


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## rdust (Nov 30, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Well I have received and changed out my thermostat.  The coil seemed to be loose and wound to tight where the hook wouldn't catch the arm that controls the flapper. There was spots around the thermostat housing that didn't have silicone around them which may have leaked more air but I doubt it was much. I haven't had time to check the welds yet. I will give it a good look over tomorrow. There has been a big change in the burn.  I've noticed that the wood isn't  blazing like before.  I now have the dancing flames by the cat. I'm finally getting a good bed of coals so I'm interested to see what she will do tonight. How much difference do people notice in heat from 1 to 3. I would think it would be significantly less. I'm just curious since I only got and hour different burn time before.  I'm really hoping that the princess is big enough Skidooer.  I would hate myself if I had to buy 8 inch flue and a bigger stove.  I have over $4000 invested in the entire setup, and that's me doing all the work. Will post burn times tomorrow



The Princess will be enough once you figure it out.  I've never burned on 3 for more than a half hour, after that my stove top is pushing 700*.  I assume I'd torch a load on 3 rather quickly.  Usually my t-stat is set on the low end of normal(1 3/4) and use the fans to control heat output.  When we have highs in the single digits or low teens I've had to burn it on 2 but always get at least 12 hour burns.(heating just shy of 2000 sq')


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## Illinois burner (Nov 30, 2014)

That's encouraging rdust. It's been an adventure so far. I'm curious how this stove will react to colder weather. I have read the colder it gets, the more heat it creates. This is an old farm house. We do get a lot of wind being on the high ground. I just hate hearing that damn furnace kick on.


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## Illinois burner (Nov 30, 2014)

I've also noticed that the wood burns front to back. I load it completely side to side and the front will burn down way faster than the rear. I imagine this is because of the cat. Is this normal?


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## rdust (Nov 30, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I've also noticed that the wood burns front to back. I load it completely side to side and the front will burn down way faster than the rear. I imagine this is because of the cat. Is this normal?



The air comes in the front so it's going to burn the wood in front first.  I load n/s which is loading the pieces straight in, I have no interest reaching in a hot stove to load the back pieces.

I've attached a couple pictures to provide an example of a loaded Princess.


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## weatherguy (Nov 30, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I've also noticed that the wood burns front to back. I load it completely side to side and the front will burn down way faster than the rear. I imagine this is because of the cat. Is this normal?


That's because the air enters in the front, mine used to form a horseshoe


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## Stump shot (Nov 30, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I've also noticed that the wood burns front to back. I load it completely side to side and the front will burn down way faster than the rear. I imagine this is because of the cat. Is this normal?


Yes, it is normal. The combustion air washes across the glass to help keep it a little cleaner. So the wood will burn front to back. I think you will not see the burn times some of use can get. Your house is loosing an Incredible amount of heat overnight. Some time spent on sealing it up some will be a big help to you. Less wood to CSS and feeding the stove.


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## rdust (Nov 30, 2014)

weatherguy said:


> That's because the air enters in the front, mine used to form a horseshoe



x2, mine tends to burn from the middle out.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 1, 2014)

I don't understand why I wouldn't get the same burn  times. It's a sealed unit. I might not experience the same in heat.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 1, 2014)

Now that the new thermostat is in it will run at lower settings. It doesn't seem to have much heat difference on low versus high. I'm beginning to think that this is caused by having the rear and side shields for close clearance.   It doesn't allow the stove to radiate as much heat as some other installations. I think I'm finally getting my head wrapped around this thing. It's to bad the blower doesn't deflect the heat off the sides as well


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## Highbeam (Dec 1, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Now that the new thermostat is in it will run at lower settings. It doesn't seem to have much heat difference on low versus high. I'm beginning to think that this is caused by having the rear and side shields for close clearance.   It doesn't allow the stove to radiate as much heat as some other installations. I think I'm finally getting my head wrapped around this thing. It's to bad the blower doesn't deflect the heat off the sides as well


 
So you asked about heat range from 1 to 3. I can only run down to 1.75 without stalling the cat and at that setting it has been cruising at 400 for many many hours. I have used the 3 setting for one hour straight and the stove top seemed to rise to 650 and hold. These stoves, especially these, aren't meant to be run hot and then cold to maintain house temps. They are meant to be loaded full and burned steady to maintain house temps. I am very happy with the ability to select between 400 and 650 to suit the heating needs.

The blower doesn't need to blow over the sides of the stove since there isn't much heat there normally. This is a cat stove. The cat makes the heat and the cat is on top. During normal operation, the sides are relatively cool.

Give the stove some time to adjust to your stat setting changes. It takes longer than a smoke dragon to go from cold to hot.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 1, 2014)

That's kind of what I figured. I'm trying to find the sweet spot that maintains. Luckily I  have some time up to watch it


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## Illinois burner (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm out of ideas. I can barely keep my house at 70 running this stove on high. It was a high of 20° outside with 10 mph winds. I closed off two additional rooms today leaving right at 900 sqft to heat. I did find some wood, once split,  testing at 18%. This was deeper in the pile. Tomorrow I'm going to get some wood that's been kiln dried to try. The stove top is only getting  to 400° on high. That's at the hottest  point. Everything is burning down to nothing so I know it's burning clean. The house doesn't feel drafty. All welds look fine that I can find. If the other  wood doesn't change anything I'm will be at a wall.


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## Rickb (Dec 1, 2014)

I am 400-480 on my sirocco 2 hours after a new load stove top on lowest setting and get 8 hours of heat on a good load.  750sqft basement livingroom. Is at 76 and 750sqft main floor is 68-71.

Either you have a ton of heat loss or your not getting the heat out of the stove.


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## Rossco (Dec 1, 2014)

Man am sorry about your situation.

You hear so many success story's regarding BK's. I even have my own.

Am 1200 up, 1200 basement (Stove location) and can manage the heat even at silly arctic temps.

Tell BK you want a completely new stove.


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## rdust (Dec 1, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm out of ideas. I can barely keep my house at 70 running this stove on high. It was a high of 20° outside with 10 mph winds. I closed off two additional rooms today leaving right at 900 sqft to heat. I did find some wood, once split,  testing at 18%. This was deeper in the pile. Tomorrow I'm going to get some wood that's been kiln dried to try. The stove top is only getting  to 400° on high. That's at the hottest  point. Everything is burning down to nothing so I know it's burning clean. The house doesn't feel drafty. All welds look fine that I can find. If the other  wood doesn't change anything I'm will be at a wall.



Do you get any smoke spillage when you're loading/reloading?  With the stove only getting to 400* on high and the wood testing at 18% I'm betting the chimney isn't drawing enough air through the stove to get higher temps.  Does the CAT stay active until all the wood is consumed if you turn the stove down to 1.5?  Has your dealer been out to inspect everything?

Do I have your chimney set up correct?  You only have a 2' rise off the stove before 2 45's, then a 2' horizontal run through the wall before the 90 into the chimney which is 15' up?

Can you document a burn for us with pictures showing load size, pictures of the burn, stove/house temps and t-stat settings?


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## Rossco (Dec 1, 2014)

rdust said:


> Do you get any smoke spillage when you're loading/reloading?  With the stove only getting to 400* on high and the wood testing at 18% I'm betting the chimney isn't drawing enough air through the stove to get higher temps.  Does the CAT stay active until all the wood is consumed if you turn the stove down to 1.5?  Has your dealer been out to inspect everything?
> 
> *Do I have your chimney set up correct?  You only have a 2' rise off the stove before 2 45's, then a 2' horizontal run through the wall before the 90 into the chimney which is 15' up?*
> 
> Can you document a burn for us with pictures showing load size, pictures of the burn, stove/house temps and t-stat settings?



Yeah well I have 3' - 45* - 12" - 45* - 2' then up 18' of excel and have no problems with draft, performance or output. Something up with the burner IMO.


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## Dieselhead (Dec 1, 2014)

Got to be sneaking by the bypass to get such low stove top temps running wide open its really the only way no? Do you close the bypass, then give it the final 1/4 turn to click it completely closed?


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## rdust (Dec 1, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Yeah well I have 3' - 45* - 12" - 45* - 2' then up 18' of excel and have no problems with draft, performance or output. Something up with the burner IMO.



The stove isn't getting up to temp and he's burning through wood at a silly rate.  The heat has to be going somewhere, if it's not going in the house it must be going up the chimney.  At the very least the dealer should be involved at this point, something is surely not adding up.


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## Rossco (Dec 1, 2014)

rdust said:


> The stove isn't getting up to temp and he's burning through wood at a silly rate.  The heat has to be going somewhere, if it's not going in the house it must be going up the chimney.  At the very least the dealer should be involved at this point, something is surely not adding up.



Yeah you bet. He must have a decent draft to suck all that wood up at that rate. 

I:E the stove sounds defective. 

I know of a few here with BK's that have all kinds of chimneys. Most are through the wall but I know a guy with a straight up 12' pipe and his units performs excellent.


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## cannon (Dec 1, 2014)

Make sure your bypass door gasket is in place,check your glass in the door for looseness, make sure the gasket is in place around the cat,you have to find out what the flue temps are when burning,I bet they are quite high.What are the cat temps compared to the stove top temps,when my princess cat therm. is 1400deg. the stove top is 650 pushing 700 about 4in.to the right of the cat therm.Right now the cat therm. is at 1000deg. and the stove top is at 450 it's at the end of a burn and it's been like that for hours.When you are burning do you have smoke out the chimney with the cat engaged?If so you could be pulling smoke through the cat so fast that it doesn't have a chance to burn all the smoke,smoke out the chimney equals heat loss.That would explain the low stove top temps.Or you could have a bad cat.


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## rdust (Dec 1, 2014)

Rossco said:


> Yeah you bet. He must have a decent draft to suck all that wood up at that rate.
> 
> I:E the stove sounds defective.
> 
> I know of a few here with BK's that have all kinds of chimneys. Most are through the wall but I know a guy with a straight up 12' pipe and his units performs excellent.



Every install is different, the BK stoves are very particular with the chimney.  We've seen it here where an extra 4' section changes the stove completely.  Some people with borderline chimney's can't run the stove on low(1) without stalling the cat.  I have 27' worth of insulated liner with 3' of DW stove pipe inside.  I was getting smoke spillage until I changed out the 90* inside for 2 45's.(30" rise before an elbow, BK recommends 36")  With my previous non cat stove the chimney never gave me any trouble. 

I'll honestly be surprised if it's the the stove.  If it's a problem with the stove is should be very obvious.  It would have to be the bypass or the cat and either one should result in a smokey burn.


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## Rossco (Dec 2, 2014)

rdust said:


> Every install is different, the BK stoves are very particular with the chimney.  We've seen it here where an extra 4' section changes the stove completely.  Some people with borderline chimney's can't run the stove on low(1) without stalling the cat.  I have 27' worth of insulated liner with 3' of DW stove pipe inside.  I was getting smoke spillage until I changed out the 90* inside for 2 45's.(30" rise before an elbow, BK recommends 36")  With my previous non cat stove the chimney never gave me any trouble.
> 
> I'll honestly be surprised if it's the the stove.  If it's a problem with the stove is should be very obvious.  It would have to be the bypass or the cat and either one should result in a smokey burn.



Oh yeah they are very picky with chimneys and other factors but pouring the coals to it should get them temps up. 

I was always under the impression that a BK needs good operating parameters to get long steady burns. 

Throw a $500 box store stove
In there and it should pour heat out for a while at full tilt. 

From what I've read here, even at full pelt its not performing never mind the legendary 24hr burns. 

Hope the OP gets it figures out. IDE be very un-happy if mine wasn't performing especially with the record low November gone.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm out of ideas. I can barely keep my house at 70 running this stove on high. It was a high of 20° outside with 10 mph winds. I closed off two additional rooms today leaving right at 900 sqft to heat. I did find some wood, once split,  testing at 18%. This was deeper in the pile. Tomorrow I'm going to get some wood that's been kiln dried to try. The stove top is only getting  to 400° on high. That's at the hottest  point. Everything is burning down to nothing so I know it's burning clean. The house doesn't feel drafty. All welds look fine that I can find. If the other  wood doesn't change anything I'm will be at a wall.


Definitely try the kiln dried wood.  My stove is not a BK, but it is a cat stove and I had the same stove temp problem you are having my first year of burning.  My wood was 2 year old oak and hickory with an average moisture content of 21%.  I could never get the stove above 400*.  However, my burn times were pretty long and I did get plenty of heat.  This year my wood is 3 years seasoned and my stove temps are averaging 550* and I can easily get it up to over 600* by allowing the secondaries more air.  My stove top temp problem was completely caused by the moisture in my wood.  Good luck.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Well I loaded it at 11:30. Here are some pics of the coal bed I started with to 45 minutes in. My furnace kicked on during this. I notice smoke at the load but haven't paid a lot of attention to during the burn. I will get pics of the outside tomorrow in the daylight.  These are all on high temp setting. Otherwise my furnace is going to run and that drives me crazy


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

some wood tests
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










coalbed
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




before loading 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







ten minutes in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




20 minutes in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




20 minutes in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




20 minutes in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




45 minutes in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




45 minutes in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




45 minutes in


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 2, 2014)

At this point I would request a factory rework of your stove, or a new replacement unit.


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## 1ruralmailman (Dec 2, 2014)

sorry to hear of your woes,but looking at those photos screams to me that the bypass is not closing,or functioning correctly.i no longer have a cat stove,but the one we had there was no way to get that big of a flame with the bypass closed.with that large  of a flame if that cat was working correctly it should be way over the safe limit.makes me wonder,what is your stack temp?the difference between open,and bypass would be interesting to see.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

This is only 3 weeks old. I'm still going to try the other wood tomorrow. I've given  my buddies a couple loads of the wood I have and they love it. However they don't own cat stoves. I really  appreciate everyone on here taking time to give a guy a hand. I had 12 feet of pipe outside before to give me all my clearances. I added the 3 feet to make it 15 outside total. That gives me just over 5 feet over the peek. I checked everything out when I changed the thermostat. Gaskets look good. Bypass seemed to close okay. Nothing looked warped. It's had for me to tell considering this is the only one I have seen. Door and window seem good. I did silicone the ash plug,  which is not my favorite thing. What's the point in having an ash pan if you can't use it. I really want this to work out. I do like the idea of the stove.  Just had higher expectations I guess. That's a chunk of money for some of us to spend and not see what others are getting.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm tempted to put my single wall stove pipe back in so I can monitor the flue temp better


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## BKVP (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm tempted to put my single wall stove pipe back in so I can monitor the flue temp better


Can you add 2-4' of chimney?  Dealer may have a used section you can borrow.  Your stove is fine. Wood looks fine...and yes, draft has made huge gains in peak heat production which allowed for more effective range in low burn rates.  Search a blog by Zanny and you can read the first hand account.  In fact, it reads like this one with all the same suggestions.


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## Dieselhead (Dec 2, 2014)

You know it's burning through wood too fast when your glass is that clear


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm new on here. Not sure how to find Zanny. At 6:30 I was down to a few coals. Still just into active. About 240° on stove top. I would have to borrow my buddies bucket truck again.  Here's pics of the outside.


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## jeff_t (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm new on here. Not sure how to find Zanny.




Starts at page 17, and goes on for a while. Or search for posts by member Zanimal. Search box at top right corner of your screen.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...rformance-thread-everything-bk.116353/page-17


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## shoot-straight (Dec 2, 2014)

HANG IN THERE!

i was frustrated with my ashford when i first got mine. my smaller hearthstone was good but all the BK rave on here had me super excited to experience one- i was convinced it would be all peaches and cream... i could simply load it up and walk away for 24 hours when its frigid out and my house would be toasty warm! right?  WRONG! it seems some get a BK setup and right away- BINGO! everything is perfect, and they are super happy. others- not so much, it takes a while to figure the set up out and work out the kinks. everyone says that "every setup is different". they couldnt be more right. also, each house is different. no matter how well you THINK your house is air sealed and insulated, some houses simply lose heat more than others. mine is one. although its a new construction, it becomes very tough to keep warm when the breeze picks up. i will continue to work to tighten things up. not only is it leaky, but i sit on a hill where the wind simply howls. when its 20 out and blowing 25 i am simply asking too much out of the stove. my chimney drafts like crazy when its like that, it literally sounds like a jet engine. my burn times were super short, even making it overnight on a low setting was tough. i finally found out what makes a HUGE difference in my burn times. the blower. having it on literally cuts my burn times in half. last night i loaded it fairly light, went to bed at 10 fans off and set at 1.75. at 7 am, there was a remarkable amount of fuel left in there. i am now going to simply run it as a radiant heater for a while and see how it heats the house. again, still working, still learning. and i bought my stove last january. am i 100% satisfied with it? i guess i would say no at this point- but i think my expectations were simply too high. however, my satisfaction is increasing daily as i learn more. 

you have bought a quality product from a company who backs it up. it may take some more effort, but it will get figured out. work with chris (BKVP) directly if your dealer is not doing their job. use the PM feature on here to contact him directly and start a dialogue offline. his accessability is one of the reasons i bought this stove. i even noticed he was responding to threads on here on thanksgiving.... that tells me alot about him. he does not want anyone unhappy with their product. 

type in "zanimal" in the search under member names. his similar problems were located in the 13/14 BK thread.


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## blueguy (Dec 2, 2014)

Supposedly, every 90* turn in a flue reduces its effective height by about 5', and every 45* reduces it by 2'. If that is true, your total effective height is reduced by 9' with your current setup.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 2, 2014)

shoot-straight said:


> HANG IN THERE!
> 
> i was frustrated with my ashford when i first got mine. my smaller hearthstone was good but all the BK rave on here had me super excited to experience one- i was convinced it would be all peaches and cream... i could simply load it up and walk away for 24 hours when its frigid out and my house would be toasty warm! right?  WRONG! it seems some get a BK setup and right away- BINGO! everything is perfect, and they are super happy. others- not so much, it takes a while to figure the set up out and work out the kinks. everyone says that "every setup is different". they couldnt be more right. also, each house is different. no matter how well you THINK your house is air sealed and insulated, some houses simply lose heat more than others. mine is one. although its a new construction, it becomes very tough to keep warm when the breeze picks up. i will continue to work to tighten things up. not only is it leaky, but i sit on a hill where the wind simply howls. when its 20 out and blowing 25 i am simply asking too much out of the stove. my chimney drafts like crazy when its like that, it literally sounds like a jet engine. my burn times were super short, even making it overnight on a low setting was tough. i finally found out what makes a HUGE difference in my burn times. the blower. having it on literally cuts my burn times in half. last night i loaded it fairly light, went to bed at 10 fans off and set at 1.75. at 7 am, there was a remarkable amount of fuel left in there. i am now going to simply run it as a radiant heater for a while and see how it heats the house. again, still working, still learning. and i bought my stove last january. am i 100% satisfied with it? i guess i would say no at this point- but i think my expectations were simply too high. however, my satisfaction is increasing daily as i learn more.
> 
> ...


Well said.....


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## Highbeam (Dec 2, 2014)

In that picture of your stove the stat knob is way away from the stove body on  metal stem. The knob should set right up against the dial with no shiney steel knob available. I only mention it because you may have something installed wrong there.

I like all the pics. Burning that thing on full high is shooting smoke right through the cat at super high speed and it can't eat the smoke fast enough. You should be seeing smoke even with that dry wood. Knock it down to setting "3". You'll still see some blue smoke but the cat should have more time to eat. More cat eating means more heat at the stove and less in the chimney. 

Yikes, somebody dented your expensive class A near the roofline! No harm but I bet it chaps your arse.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Ya. I was half way through the installation and pulled that pipe out of the box already dented.  There was no turning back at that point. The new thermostat came like that. It said I need to cut that rod to fit. Wanted to make sure it worked first. That's on my list of things to do but getting heat is number 1. I can't find in the manual where it says 2 feet per 45° or 5 feet per 90° or tee. I'm worried that it will be to high for my roof support to handle. One strong wind and that could be a lot of money on the ground and dangerous


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

I put another 4 feet of pipe on today giving me at total of 19 feet outside. It looks ridiculous. I just loaded it with the wood I have at 3:45. The next load will be the kiln dried wood. Hopefully I see a dramatic change


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## jeff_t (Dec 2, 2014)

Those figures for the 45 and 90 aren't in the manual. It's a pretty well agreed upon rule of thumb. The bends create resistance to airflow, weakening the draft. The outside chimney doesn't help either, given the already low flue temps of the BK.


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## rideau (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm tempted to put my single wall stove pipe back in so I can monitor the flue temp better


Why not drill  a hole in the pipe and put a probe thermometer in?  Than you'll know the stack temperature.


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## Rickb (Dec 2, 2014)

2 hours in....  hows it going?


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## Highbeam (Dec 2, 2014)

rideau said:


> Why not drill  a hole in the pipe and put a probe thermometer in?  Than you'll know the stack temperature.


 
Probe meters are great, I have one too, but they are just not available at the corner hardware store. It's a mail order thing for most of us.


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## Calentarse (Dec 2, 2014)

I haven't had my BK Ashford for very long thus I cannot comment too much to the operation/setup of the stoves. I'm blessed thus far to be one of the success stories. I was nervous getting my BK only just before thanksgiving- fearful it wouldn't work as I have the minimum chimney height and a small house. I wanted to be able to operate the stove long, with low temps. It has done just that and I'm grateful. I'm very surprised I'm not losing draft. I'm choking it down and somehow it doesn't go inactive set on 1.75 (haven't tried anything below that). I'm burning 3 year old oak that honestly isn't cracked/grayed at all so I would think I'd have that working against me too.

Honestly sounds like something isn't right with the stove. You shouldn't need that much height without something else being really wrong (I'm not a professional so I really don't know, just holistically speaking). Seems like your wood is dry, plenty of opportunity for draft (double-wall pipe, operating it properly, etc.), so I'm left to believe something isn't right in the stove. Based on that pic you posted earlier with the flames LIKE WHOA! If that was with the cat engaged, you got a problem. NEVER seen those kind of flames in my BK even on highest setting. That looks like the good old days with the Vermont Castings Encore firing out of control!

Best of luck to you.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I put another 4 feet of pipe on today giving me at total of 19 feet outside. It looks ridiculous. I just loaded it with the wood I have at 3:45. The next load will be the kiln dried wood. Hopefully I see a dramatic change


For what it's worth, a neighbor of mine has a poor draft problem with his BK stove due to a less then optimum chimney setup, but his problem is the opposite of yours.  He can't get a raging fire and he gets a nasty smoke smell in the house at times.   He believes his stove is OK because he used it at another location and it performed well.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

I may be getting a little more heat but it's hard to judge with the outside temperature almost 20° warmer.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




After 2 1/2 hours on high. I'm sitting 4 feet away  from it. It definitely hasn't chases me out of the room yet


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Probably 3/4 through that load with plenty of coals. Going to try the kiln dried wood next. It's definitely split smaller. It's a mix of what looks like walnut, ash, hackberry, and who knows what. Definitely not my oak. We will see


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## rdust (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I may be getting a little more heat but it's hard to judge with the outside temperature almost 20° warmer.After 2 1/2 hours on high. I'm sitting 4 feet away  from it. It definitely hasn't chases me out of the room yet



Stop burning it on high, when you get the wood charred start dialing it down.  A high setting is just puking heat out the chimney.  If you have to burn the stove on high to meet your heating load the stove isn't right for your application.  I burn mine on 1 3/4 90% of the time and use the fan to give me heat or take it away.  After 15-30 minutes on high the stove top should be over 600*.  The stove won't give you the burn your face off type of heat, the heat is more convective than radiant.  I can sit 5' away from my stove and never get driven away from it if I'm burning the stove the way it wants to burn.(a setting in the normal range)   

BK stoves excel at maintaining a steady temp, you shouldn't have to burn it on high for more than 30 minutes to recover the heat lost between loads.  I wish I was closer I'd love to stop by and see how the stove is performing in person.


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## Highbeam (Dec 2, 2014)

For crying out loud, turn it down to 3. The manual tells you that any setting from 1 to 3 is appropriate for normal operation. At 3.5+ you are running that thing inefficiently.


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## Highbeam (Dec 2, 2014)

rdust beat me to it.

There is no "hi" setting on the stove. There are numbers and if by "hi" you mean all the way to the max then you are operating that thing improperly. The highest setting after engaging the cat should be #3 on the dial.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Just under 3 is what I call high. When I set the dial after changing the thermostat I set 1 at the flapper closing while cold. I turned it to 3 to check it and it still had room to adjust. 3.5 just keeps it wide open. When I run it in normal it gets really cool and the temp on the stove top drops to around 250°


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## tarzan (Dec 2, 2014)

I just hope you get it figured out before you end up with a red, blinking light on the chimney top.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Tell me about it. I thought about asking the cellular phone companies that I could rent them space for antennas


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## bobdog2o02 (Dec 2, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> some wood tests
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Were those freshly split faces?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 2, 2014)

Most of them


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## bobdog2o02 (Dec 2, 2014)

Has to be fresh split, otherwise its a bogus reading.  Wet wood will make flames but the resulting steam has a cooling effect on the cat......


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## cannon (Dec 2, 2014)

Sucking all that flame through the cat isn't going to help it at all.When you reload on that hot bed of coals try putting in about 3 splits.With the bypass open  and thermostat all the way open, let it char the wood real good,check your cat temp,make sure it's in active range,and then start turning down the thermostat over a period of a few minutes.Close it half way,then 3/4 of the way shut,turn it down until you don't have a lot of flame,don't turn it down all at once, and then close the bypass.You want smoke not a lot of flame.Your cat should light off and start to glow and the cat thermometer should start to climb.Let it burn like this for about 20 minutes and then turn the thermostat down some more until there is no flame. The cat temps should continue to climb.You have to be patient.I can do this with my princess and with no flame in the fire box and get 1400deg on cat probe and 650 stove top temps.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

My dealer just stopped by. The first thing he said was it felt warm. The temperature in the house was 72, keep in mind that it is 30° outside. I then told him I was burning on high ( by high I mean 3) for 2 1/2 hours. The temperature of the stove top was 600°. The cat temp guage was about 3/4 past active.  I dropped it down to 2 and the stove top dropped below 500° pretty quick. The cat guage dropped below half past active quickly. The next load I'm going to try cannons idea. I had to load it full for the dealer to look at. I'll try anything until the furnace kicks on. That's were I draw the line. I have a 4 month old baby boy that will not get cold on my watch. I did burn the kiln dried wood last night with no change. I loaded it at 11:30, dialed it down to 2 ( lower than to and everything drops), and woke up at 6 with ash and just a couple of coals. I'm trying to drop the thermostat but it will not heat my home. Sick to my stomach. I know these stoves are excellent.  I just think there is something wrong that I'm not catching or find.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Does anyone else have a similar setup?  It seems that the more pipe I put on lowers my stove top temps.


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## tarzan (Dec 3, 2014)

Take pipe off. Hell, everything is just an experiment at this point anyway.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I'd like to but unfortunately I  can't get my buddies bucket truck today. A bit tall for me to man handle on that pitch


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## blueguy (Dec 3, 2014)

I wonder if the cat is bad?


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## tarzan (Dec 3, 2014)

Sorry. Maybe my last post was a bit out of line but I can't grasp how you could have a roaring fire in a big ol steel box for 45 minutes without heating the stove top past 400*F. Then, if you shut the draft down to 2 the temps fall to 200*F.  Not to mention that you are blowing through wood like a campfire.

Air in, air out. We are just trying to scrub as much heat as possible from that air before it leaves the stove.

I'm sure many here, myself included, would like to be there to help or at least bare witness.


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

A flue probe might provide some insight. I don't have one, but I don't have any troubles either. Blaze King flue temps are characteristically low during normal operation.

Any idea on insulation and drafts in your house? A 600° stove would have this leaky, marginally insulated 70s ranch to 80° on a day like today. On a typical winter day, say mid 20s and fairly calm, I can stay plenty warm with a 4-500° stove. If the sun is shining, less heat than that, with the blowers off.

When I do need to burn hot, I'll blow thru a load in about twelve hours. I have measured the firebox, and come up with an honest nearly 4.4 cu ft of useable space, like Blaze King claims. Assuming the same honesty with the Princess, the volume of your firebox is roughly 2/3 of mine. So, if we're both burning the same type of wood at similar moisture levels with similar btu outputs, simple math says we are on par with burn times.

Is it possible that 35-40,000 btu/hr isn't enough? That your house is losing heat faster than that?


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## Highbeam (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> My dealer just stopped by. The first thing he said was it felt warm. The temperature in the house was 72, keep in mind that it is 30° outside. I then told him I was burning on high ( by high I mean 3) for 2 1/2 hours. The temperature of the stove top was 600°. The cat temp guage was about 3/4 past active.  I dropped it down to 2 and the stove top dropped below 500° pretty quick.


 
Sounds like everything is working as it should. You got to 600 on 3, active cat. If you can't heat your house with a 600 degree stove then your stove is too small.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

My house isn't airtight by any means.  It's a 80 year old farm house with good new windows.  No major air leaks. My 1980 wonderwood wood get my house to 80 with a smaller firebox in these temps with an easy 4-5 hour burn time. I assumed by seeing 1500 to 2500 sqft heating range this stove would heat my house with ease. My dealer was here to witness it today. Maybe I should have went with the king. At this point the $4000+ I've spent could have covered a few years of LP. Has anyone else burnt on high and only had 4 hours of good heat. You have know idea how bad I want this stove to work


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

How am I the only person to have to run on high to maintain 600°?


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> How am I the only person to have to run on high to maintain 600°?



I can hit 600 with a fresh load turned all the way down. Nothing but a bright orange cat.

Does your dealer have, or do you have access to, a manometer to check into your draft? Know any hvac guys? I think it's supposed to be .04-.06" wc.


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## shoot-straight (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Has anyone else burnt on high and only had 4 hours of good heat. You have know idea how bad I want this stove to work



yes. mine does the same thing. but as others have said, the stove is not intended to run on high all the time. although its capable of doing so, it loses much of its effciency and therefore- its appeal. stay with it. like i wrote before, i got mine in january last year and am still tinkering. but its getting better. i have learned there is a "sweet spot" to burn in cold temps- where i get the maximum heat for a longer burn time. some days it simply cant keep up. the other 80% of the time it does a great job. keep working with BKVP and your dealer. 

i am not an expert, but i do know my house is losing heat too fast. my gut tells me yours is doing so too.


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## Highbeam (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> How am I the only person to have to run on high to maintain 600°?


 
You seem to be the only person who needs to maintain 600 to keep their house warm. It's like asking about how long our cars can hold 100 mph.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I don't need 600! I need it not to drop through the damn floor if I turn it  down. I turn it past 2 1/2 it falls on it face and won't heat. Maybe you don't understand what the hell I am saying.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I asked  him for a manometer and he said he has never had to use them, which suprise me. I'm asking around. I don't want to buy one just for this. That will tell me the whole story I'm betting


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Jeff t I don't have a probe thermostat.  I did have my magnet one on there before with the single wall.  It was running between 250° and 350° 2 feet up from the stove consistently if that helps. I had it on the double wall because someone told me on double wall it should read about 150° to be 250° actually but who knows


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

After 30 minutes of burn time on high turn the stove down to 1 3/4-2 and monitor stove top temps for the length of the burn.  If the house gets cool let the furnace run, I'm interested to see how it acts over the length of the burn on a setting most of us can heat with.  Report the temps every hour or so if you can.  

If the stove top is at 400* does the house lose temp, gain temp or hold steady?  If a 400* stove top can't maintain temps in the house the stove isn't going to work for you with it's current amount of heat loss.  What temp do you have the thermostat set to run the furnace?   

I'm heating just shy of 2K in Michigan and a 350*-400* stove top will hold the house temps steady.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I will try it rdust.  Otherwise quite ready to load. I keep my thermostat for the furnace on 70°


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I don't need 600! I need it not to drop through the damn floor if I turn it  down. I turn it past 2 1/2 it falls on it face and won't heat. Maybe you don't understand what the hell I am saying.



I know it's not what you want to hear, but I'm afraid your still going to find draft issues.

If the wood is indeed that dry, you should have no problem smoldering a load and letting the cat do its thing. If you have adequate draft.

Which makes sense if you think about it. You want to burn a given amount of wood in a 12-24 hr period, which your old stove would burn in 4-5 hrs. You do that by letting in a lot less air, which means a lot less air going up the pipe. The lower volume has a harder time overcoming the additional resistance of the directional changes, where your old stove was blowing extra air up the stack, along with a bunch of your heat.

You've had a look at how the thermostat works. When it is closed, all the air the stove gets comes thru that little hole, the size of a dime maybe? Your chimney has to pull enough thru that hole to pull gases thru the cat and up the stack, while maintaining enough heat to keep the cat active. Mine does it over two days. It takes a little boost, usually in the morning and evening, but then I can close it back down again. My chimney is 11' of class A, 5'ish of double wall, straight thru the roof. So around 16' from flue collar to daylight. I understand it's not exactly apples to apples(8" vs 6"), but it's nothing crazy, just a little over the manufacturer's recommended minimum.

My sister's King, on the other hand, is on 26' of straight up pipe. It sucked a paper towel up out of my hand before I hooked everything up. It works well, but could probably use a key damper on really windy days.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

I haven't documented a burn this season but here is one I did last year.  Read the first few posts in this link, it's 24hrs in the life of my stove.  

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...erformance-thread-everything-bk.116353/page-9


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## R'Lee (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois Burner; I can not even envision your headache.  My early 2014 install is the BKK and it has performed flawlessly. Indeed, almost too much stove for my dwelling.  Maybe I missed it but, have you done the dollar bill test with your bypass damper door?  Mine actually "clunks" shut when I close it.  I only burn mine on high (3) for about one hour max per day just to clean the class otherwise it cruises at about 1.5-2 on the thermostat.   Although I have the blower setup (*basically an upgraded rear shield) I only use that sparingly for the wife warm after a looooong day away from fueling it.  I can't even fill up the firebox entirely without opening up doors and windows.  The Princess would probably been better suited for us except I am planning on eventually adding on another addition.   Good Lord, I hope you get this resolved soon.  God Bless


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

My buddy  has a digital manometer. He's going to stop by after work. The only question I can think of is where to test it since a hole has to be drilled. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in the cleanout  cap. It's the only place I can think of to patch after. Ideas?


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Don't know exactly where the hole should be, or how big. If you can make a 1/4" hole 18" up from the stove, you can fill it with a probe thermometer


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Lol. Jeff t. If I had one on hand I would


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Rdust I am trying your method.  I got her hot and shut her down. Here's a pic at 2:30


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Fan is off. 74 in the house. 35 outside. 5 mph wind


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Lol. Jeff t. If I had one on hand I would



You can temporarily plug it and order a probe. 

I don't even know where to buy one locally. The few stove shops around look at me funny and show me a magnetic thermo.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

How would  you plug double wall? Can't think of anything that would hold up without leaking into the house


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Big sheet metal screw?

Shouldn't leak into the house. It should suck room air in.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> My dealer just stopped by. The first thing he said was it felt warm. The temperature in the house was 72, keep in mind that it is 30° outside. I then told him I was burning on high ( by high I mean 3) for 2 1/2 hours. The temperature of the stove top was 600°. The cat temp guage was about 3/4 past active.  I dropped it down to 2 and the stove top dropped below 500° pretty quick. The cat guage dropped below half past active quickly. The next load I'm going to try cannons idea. I had to load it full for the dealer to look at. I'll try anything until the furnace kicks on. That's were I draw the line. I have a 4 month old baby boy that will not get cold on my watch. I did burn the kiln dried wood last night with no change. I loaded it at 11:30, dialed it down to 2 ( lower than to and everything drops), and woke up at 6 with ash and just a couple of coals. I'm trying to drop the thermostat but it will not heat my home. Sick to my stomach. I know these stoves are excellent.  I just think there is something wrong that I'm not catching or find.


So what was the dealer's conclusion besides saying the house felt warm?  Is he going to provide any further assistance in solving your problem?  Is he in contact with BKVP ?


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## Stump shot (Dec 3, 2014)

A Condor double wall pipe probe needs a 3/16 hole in the inner pipe and 1/4 inch hole on the outside pipe.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

He thinks there is a problem.  He thinks these are still short burn times. He thought it was warm but didn't know I was burning so high to achieve  inside temps.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Thanks stump shot


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> He thinks there is a problem.  He thinks these are still short burn times. He thought it was warm but didn't know I was burning so high to achieve  inside temps.


Is he going to help you solve the problem?  What is he suggesting?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Not sure yet.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Not sure yet.


Everyone on Hearth.com is so very helpful and they have a wealth of personal experience to share.  But the real knowledge base of information about this stove lies with BK.  Hopefully they will bring their resources to bear and solve this perplexing problem for you.  This has got to be very stressful, but I am sure a solution will be found.  Hang in there, and best of luck.


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## weatherguy (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Rdust I am trying your method.  I got her hot and shut her down. Here's a pic at 2:30


How's this load doing Illinois?


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 3, 2014)

I'm very interested in the draft test results, I'm also curious about the test going on right now with the stove loaded, nice and hot turned all the way down with the damper closed, due you mind posting your results with pics of the thermometers on (1) hour interval, I know you have a lot going on right now but it may help us understand how the heat is working through the firebox. Good point on the dollar bill test on the damper, my gut feeling is that there is something wrong there, looking at your pic of your chimney I got to ask is that a brand new never used? if it is there is their might be an issue going on, looking at the cap and first foot down on the class a pipe it seems stained pretty bad, I would dismiss it if it was over a year old but if its only a couple days old there's something going on, also is the cat in the correct place? When I looked at the princess in person a couple weeks ago the dealer took the metal grate off and the cat was right there, yours looks like its to far back maybe that's how the pic looks but if anyone else can carefully look at it in the pics please do. I hope you get a solution asap and you become a proud BK owner, please don't give up on it!


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 3, 2014)

I was looking at the pics you posted on page three of the stove and on the pics showing your stove the bypass lever was open on both pics, "when the lever points to you its opened, when its pointed away from you its in the closed position" I know those were pics of the stove before and after a reload but can you confirm that the lever is pointed away from you right now?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

The stove stalled out after 2 hours. Just had to turn  it up a bit. The manometer tested at .03 positive. Now I have to figure out what that means.  It's the high side of what I need I guess


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> The stove stalled out after 2 hours. Just had to turn  it up a bit. The manometer tested at .03 positive. Now I have to figure out what that means.  It's the high side of what I need I guess



What setting did you have it on?  When you say stalled out do you mean the cat went "inactive"?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I had it at 1 3/4. The first hour temp stayed  at 400. Cat dropped to 1/4 pass active.  Second hour cat was inactive and temp was just under 200


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

kennyp2339 said:


> I was looking at the pics you posted on page three of the stove and on the pics showing your stove the bypass lever was open on both pics, "when the lever points to you its opened, when its pointed away from you its in the closed position" I know those were pics of the stove before and after a reload but can you confirm that the lever is pointed away from you right now?



Those pictures are when he was loading and early in the burn.  When the wood is fully engulfed it appears the bypass is closed.


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 3, 2014)

rdust said:


> What setting did you have it on?  When you say stalled out do you mean the cat went "inactive"?


Yeah Illinois burner did a load with the stove hot and shut the stove down to see if he could maintain a prolonged cat light off and decent stove top temps.. Something is wrong here, That dented chimney section is only an outside dent right?


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## jeff_t (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> The stove stalled out after 2 hours. Just had to turn  it up a bit. The manometer tested at .03 positive. Now I have to figure out what that means.  It's the high side of what I need I guess



Your manual says '.05 in. w.c. operated on high', so I guess that's pretty close.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

That is an external dent. No biggie.  I checked it out. Came out of the box that way. I just dealt with it since I was so close to starting the fire. This is all new pipe. Been burning for 3 weeks or so


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## tarzan (Dec 3, 2014)

When you checked it at .03"wc, where was the draft set?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I'm officially out of ideas. My buddy that works on furnaces say that you need 30 btus for every square foot of your house. This figure is supposed to be based on a 8° outside temperature. If that's true than this stove isn't big enough.  However everyone on here says different.  I'm giving up until I talk to Chris. He's supposed to be back tomorrow


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

The manual said to check at a medium fire. I checked it about 18 inches of the top of the stove


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

kennyp2339 said:


> Yeah Illinois burner did a load with the stove hot and shut the stove down to see if he could maintain a prolonged cat light off and decent stove top temps.. Something is wrong here, That dented chimney section is only an outside dent right?



I know, I recommended it.    I was just curious what his final setting was, big difference between the cat stalling on 1 and 1 3/4.

The cat stalling on a lower burn is either due to the chimney not pulling enough or bad wood.(I can't see the cat being bad out of the box unless it didn't get a good wash coat, anything is possible I guess).  I can dial mine to 1 which is full closed and the cat will stay active for 24 hours.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> The stove stalled out after 2 hours. Just had to turn  it up a bit. The manometer tested at .03 positive. Now I have to figure out what that means.  It's the high side of what I need I guess



Was the reading taken on 2?  I would consider 2 a medium burn and 3 a high burn.


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## Highbeam (Dec 3, 2014)

rdust said:


> The cat stalling on a lower burn is either due to the chimney not pulling enough or bad wood.(I can't see the cat being bad out of the box unless it didn't get a good wash coat).  I can dial mine to 1 which is full closed and the cat will stay active for 24 hours.


 
I can't go to 1.5 without stall. In fact, I'm at 1.75 as a minimum setting. Illburner's cat is new so should be spunky.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Yes sir


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Wood has been approved.  Drafts checked out. There is something interactive that I'm not catching


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I meant internal . Damn auto correct


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> I can't go to 1.5 without stall. In fact, I'm at 1.75 as a minimum setting. Illburner's cat is new so should be spunky.



You also have a chimney near minimum spec, not a big deal since you know where the line is and it seems to be working for you.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Wood has been approved.  Drafts checked out. There is something interactive that I'm not catching



It's not complicated, you have a big steel box, a cat, a t-stat and a chimney.  The cat is new and should be fine(I've never heard of a dead cat from the factory, maybe the gasket wrap around it is bad or it was installed wrong?), the t-stat was replaced as long as it was installed properly that isn't it, the only thing left is the wood or the chimney.  Since the chimney checks out I'm leaning towards the cat, check to make sure it's tight and the gasket wrap is in place.  I doubt the cat itself could be bad but I guess anything is possible.

Edit: also have the bypass but something would have to be seriously wrong with that.  It's a heavy plate and the weight of it alone would seal pretty darn good.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Wood has been approved.  Drafts checked out. There is something interactive that I'm not catching



What was the t-stat setting when you check the draft?


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## cannon (Dec 3, 2014)

For several weeks now you have been sucking a whole lot of flame through the cat,my guess would be that it is toast.Here is info from Firecat website.
Why is 'flame impingement' bad for the catalyst? 

Direct flame contact is death to the catalyst. A catalyst burns the byproducts in the smoke. The gases such as CO, HC, and O2 ignite with each other in a chemical reaction in the presence of the catalyst (while passing through the honeycomb configuration). Direct flame inhibits this reaction by changing the chemical make-up of the catalyst breaking down the substrate or ceramic. Today's modern wood burning stoves are designed so that flame impingement is unlikely. However, it is not impossible. A strong fast draft can pull the flames into the catalyst. A hot fire with all the primary air controls wide open or perhaps the firebox door or ash pan door ajar are other ways the catalyst might receive flame impingement. Stacking too many logs in the firebox can elevate flames too close to the combustor.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

cannon said:


> For several weeks now you have been sucking a whole lot of flame through the cat,my guess would be that it is toast.Here is info from Firecat website.
> Why is 'flame impingement' bad for the catalyst?
> 
> Direct flame contact is death to the catalyst. A catalyst burns the byproducts in the smoke. The gases such as CO, HC, and O2 ignite with each other in a chemical reaction in the presence of the catalyst (while passing through the honeycomb configuration). Direct flame inhibits this reaction by changing the chemical make-up of the catalyst breaking down the substrate or ceramic. Today's modern wood burning stoves are designed so that flame impingement is unlikely. However, it is not impossible. A strong fast draft can pull the flames into the catalyst. A hot fire with all the primary air controls wide open or perhaps the firebox door or ash pan door ajar are other ways the catalyst might receive flame impingement. Stacking too many logs in the firebox can elevate flames too close to the combustor.



The BK design is pretty good to limit flame impingement, it may get some but I'd be surprised if it destroyed the substrate/wash coat that quickly.  Anything is game at this point though.


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## tarzan (Dec 3, 2014)

I have 12' from stove collar to chimney cap (mobile home) and am running on what would be zero T-stat setting with stove top at 550 right now so definately every set up is different.

Once I finish this radio flyer wagon load of what seams to be the rocket fuel of wood I will go back to burning wood that I must maintain a setting of 1.5 to keep cat in the active zone.


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## BKVP (Dec 3, 2014)

Is there any way for you to enclosed some of that chimney?  Your entire stack is exposed to the cold air and that has a HUGE effect on stack temps/draft.



Illinois burner said:


> I'm new on here. Not sure how to find Zanny. At 6:30 I was down to a few coals. Still just into active. About 240° on stove top. I would have to borrow my buddies bucket truck again.  Here's pics of the outside.





Illinois burner said:


> Wood has been approved.  Drafts checked out. There is something interactive that I'm not catching


Your draft, while checked, is weak.  As the outdoor temp drops, the draft should increase. .04 is almost a minimum.


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## cannon (Dec 3, 2014)

Flame impingement doesn't happen over night,but the cat will go inactive first.When the cat goes inactive the thermostat gets turned up higher to get more heat,the higher the setting the more flame is drawn into the combustor which eventually leads to crumbling.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

I'm not enclosing it. I may at a much later date, when funds are better, run it through the roof. I don't understand how the draft is low when it's 
A. 35 degrees outside 
B. Stated in the owners manual. .002 to .003 on medium fire and .005 on high


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Sorry,  I meant. 02 and .03


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## Rich2343 (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I put another 4 feet of pipe on today giving me at total of 19 feet outside. It looks ridiculous. I just loaded it with the wood I have at 3:45. The next load will be the kiln dried wood. Hopefully I see a dramatic change


 Illinois. Ridiculous you say living in a mobile home and have 12' of stack out on the roof. People tell me they can see the stack before the trailer . It works that's all that important to me . I still have some tweeking to do before I'm happy.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm not enclosing it. I may at a much later date, when funds are better, run it through the roof.



I'm surprised you didn't run it straight up and out to start.  I would figure the stove pipe would be cheaper than class A, of course double wall ain't cheap either.


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## tarzan (Dec 3, 2014)

Are your stove top and probe temps with blower on or off? If the blower is on, at what speed?


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## Bill C (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois , I really feel for you ! Hope you can get that figured out.
    I'm buying a new stove soon, to replace my old one.  I'm very interested in your situation since I'm considering the BK Princess.
     I have an 8" masonry flue that's approx 18-19 ft from stove to top.  My old stove is a cat and has always drafted fine.
     I'll be watching your threads, hope you can get the problem located and corrected soon. Hang in there


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Those were with it off


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## Bill C (Dec 3, 2014)

I can't help but think there's a issue with the stove.   The flue is extremely high.  You have draft, so it should burn well ?


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## claybe (Dec 3, 2014)

rdust said:


> Those pictures are when he was loading and early in the burn.  When the wood is fully engulfed it appears the bypass is closed.





kennyp2339 said:


> I was looking at the pics you posted on page three of the stove and on the pics showing your stove the bypass lever was open on both pics, "when the lever points to you its opened, when its pointed away from you its in the closed position" I know those were pics of the stove before and after a reload but can you confirm that the lever is pointed away from you right now?



This is what I was thinking too that he was reversing the closing of the bypass. Illinois can you confirm that the bypass is being closed correctly?  Have you watched it close when there was no fire in there?  Have you done the dollar bill test on the bypass?  I have a princess insert and a very short run of pipe and about 1200 sqft and it heats it fine. I even got over 24 hours on some fruit wood a few days ago.   Can you post how you are adjusting the tstat as you go?  I load with everything open. When the cat is active I close the bypass and turn it to half way open down from full open. Let the cat probe get about half way into active and the turn it down to about 1/4 to 1/8 open. The insert does not have the same Dots as the free stander. Post your minute by minute with every detail and pictures if possible. Chris will chime in as well and he will make sure this gets fixed.  Hang in there.


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## Rickb (Dec 3, 2014)

1 other question as well.  When you ran it lower 1.75-2 for a while did you hear the thermostat clicking open and closed?

Also I am not sure where your located but I have a probe for double wall stove pipe you can have.  Never needed it with my BK.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Yes. I'm closing  the bypass


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## claybe (Dec 3, 2014)

In that picture, I am pretty sure the bypass is open.  It should be pushed up and over away from you to be closed. Look at page 21 of your manual.


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## Rickb (Dec 3, 2014)

Yup pulled to the front the bypass is open.  Push it up and back till the bypass closes then is should latch.  You can feel it.


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> Yes. I'm closing  the bypass



Bypass is wide open in this picture!  I hope that isn't the way you're running it, if it is that explains bunches and bunches.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

After load I burn on 3 until stove reaches 500° or so with the bypass closed. I've tried closing it once in the active but the temperature never climbs. I then turn  it down little  by little  until I hear the flapper closed. At this point I figure the coil is wound so the flapper  is on the cool down. I turn it up past the sound of closing ever so slightly. I try to run the fan on the lowest  set to help move warm air. At this point I would  think it's on cruise control and wouldn't need adjustment  until loading or a major change in outside weather, such as heavy wind. Does my thought process sound correct?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

Sorry sent wrong picture


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## Illinois burner (Dec 3, 2014)

No. Lol. My phone and big fingers don't always get along. I researched this stove and read threads on it for almost  2 years before I pulled the trigger


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## rdust (Dec 3, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> After load I burn on 3 until stove reaches 500° or so with the bypass closed. I've tried closing it once in the active but the temperature never climbs. I then turn  it down little  by little  until I hear the flapper closed. At this point I figure the coil is wound so the flapper  is on the cool down. I turn it up past the sound of closing ever so slightly. I try to run the fan on the lowest  set to help move warm air. At this point I would  think it's on cruise control and wouldn't need adjustment  until loading or a major change in outside weather, such as heavy wind. Does my thought process sound correct?



Ok, quick run down on how I run mine.

Loading from coals
Flip bypass lever open(handle end facing me)
Turn air up to 3 1/2
Open door
Move ash back, pull coals forward(slide coals to one side before pushing ash back) spread ash even in back and coals even across front
Load wood
Leave stove on high for 10 minutes or so until wood is involved or cat probe goes active
Close bypass by pulling lever up and rotating it down(turning to the right)
Turn air down to 3
Burn on 3 for 10-15 minutes(if I need heat to warm up a cold house I'll turn it down to the high end up normal and burn it there for longer)
Turn down to 2 for 5 minutes or so
Turn down to final setting, which is usually 1 1/2 to 1 3/4(low end of normal line) 90% of the time

Every load may be a little different but from a coal bed this is it most of the time.


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## Badger (Dec 3, 2014)

Sorry for asking this again, but I don't remember the answer.  Why is the thermostat knob so far out?


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## claybe (Dec 4, 2014)

Have you tried running it without the fan?  I wonder if there is a missed weld and the fan is super heating the fire with extra air?  It might be worth it to try a fire without the fan and see what happens....like you say it could be anything at this point. Good luck!


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

The rod that that know is on is all part of the new thermostat kit that I changed out. There was a paper in the replacement that stated to cut the rod to fit. I haven't cut it yet because I want to make sure it worked first.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

I ran it without the fan when I did the test earlier when it stalled 2 1/2 hours in. I understand that a lot of my problem is operator error but I have a hard time wrapping my head around this style of stove. I'm used to the ole, if it's cold turn it up, kind of stoves. I still don't understand why everyone says my chimney isn't tall enough. I added 4 feet to what I had posted in the last picture to check  that off. I understand straight up is the better setup, however I didn't want to shut the stove down and disassemble it to check my flue every time. Or to have crap falling into the bypass and possibly the cat. Not my idea of easy maintenance. I wish the stove would put out more heat. I'm just frustrated and have now spent a ton of hours and money in buying stuff that I can no longer return to check things off the list. Never imagined with all of the positive feedback that I would ever have an issue with it. Sorry for venting guys but I'm just about to lose it.


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## weatherguy (Dec 4, 2014)

I remember someone came on last year (not zanimal) and had one of the newer BK, either the sirocco or chinook and had the same problems as Illinois, this thread is almost a duplicate of that one, in the end she got the stove swapped out for the bigger one and the new one worked like a charm. I don't think the problem was the stove was not the right size, it just didn't run right.
I think you need the stove swapped, JMHO.


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## BKVP (Dec 4, 2014)

weatherguy said:


> I remember someone came on last year (not zanimal) and had one of the newer BK, either the sirocco or chinook and had the same problems as Illinois, this thread is almost a duplicate of that one, in the end she got the stove swapped out for the bigger one and the new one worked like a charm. I don't think the problem was the stove was not the right size, it just didn't run right.
> I think you need the stove swapped, JMHO.


You are correct.  It was a owner in Northern California.  The dealer swaped out the stoves and the smaller one was sold to a consumer that is quite pleased to have it in their small home.


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## BKVP (Dec 4, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I ran it without the fan when I did the test earlier when it stalled 2 1/2 hours in. I understand that a lot of my problem is operator error but I have a hard time wrapping my head around this style of stove. I'm used to the ole, if it's cold turn it up, kind of stoves. I still don't understand why everyone says my chimney isn't tall enough. I added 4 feet to what I had posted in the last picture to check  that off. I understand straight up is the better setup, however I didn't want to shut the stove down and disassemble it to check my flue every time. Or to have crap falling into the bypass and possibly the cat. Not my idea of easy maintenance. I wish the stove would put out more heat. I'm just frustrated and have now spent a ton of hours and money in buying stuff that I can no longer return to check things off the list. Never imagined with all of the positive feedback that I would ever have an issue with it. Sorry for venting guys but I'm just about to lose it.



I am flying all day tomorrow.  If your chimney did run straight up and out, it would eliminate the elbows.  BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, the vast majority of the chimney would be in the confines of the home.  That was my purpose for suggesting the chase around the outside all fuel venting.  I am not certain who your dealer is, but perhaps you can ask about moving into a King model.  That would be their call.

To be certain, you have done a great deal to run this issue down.  It would be nearly 1 in 10,000 or more that the cat was bad in a new stove.  But, you did see it glowing.  Check that one off.  The bypass plate tension is adjusted at the factory, check that off because it's a new stove.  Your readings for fuel moisture content show you are burning dry fuel.  The thermostat is working and the one before was working too.  So it comes down to draft.

Incidentally and if I missed this I am sorry, but do you have it connected to a FA kit?

I will be back in Walla Walla late tomorrow so if you would like to speak about this, call me at 509-522-2730 on Friday.  Please call early (7:00 a.m. PST) as my day will be heck after being up here meeting with regulators all week.

Chris


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Thanks Chris! Kinda stupid  question but could I reduce a king down to my 6 inch?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

And no I do not have a fresh air kit


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## tarzan (Dec 4, 2014)

At this point I can think of nothing that could explain away some of the things this stove has done, though I suppose, as Chris and others have said, loosing draft comes closest.

It seems that you are doing things right (blower, bypass. Wood, shut down procedure, etc.) or at least put enough time and effort in that it's obvious this setup, at least in its current configuration, is not going to work for you.

I wouldn't rush into a bigger stove though. Not until you at least get this one running right. Without going back through this thread I think you mentioned heating your  home with a smaller stove yet the Princess is struggling, even in mild weather.

I think the best thing about the Princess is its ability to throw out steady heat for an easy 12 hours and until yours is doing something near that, however it happens, I don't think you can say for sure the stove is to small. Though it still may be.

Maybe your dealer doesn't realize the urgency of your situation and hopefully a talk with Chris can fix things but it would be nice I think, if someone knowledgable could come to your door. You have definately put time, effort, and money into trying to make this thing work.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 4, 2014)

I would check with the dealer to see if he has a used Princess (maybe a trade-in) in the shop that you could borrow to temporarily swap with your stove.  That  way you could eliminate the stove as being the problem.  I agree with Tarzan that you should not rush out and upgrade to a larger stove until you are certain what the problem is.  Upgrading prematurely might end up being 'throwing good money after bad'.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

I hear you guys. My dealer is a brochure dealer only for the most part. He mostly sell gas inserts. I think he has 2 wood stoves and they are small. Going to wait until tomorrow and talk to Chris. I did get a 6 hour burn last night but it was 64° in the house when I reloaded it. There was still  a chunk of wood in there but it was charcoal. Just need more heat then that


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## bobdog2o02 (Dec 4, 2014)

Your heat load mist be insane....   Have you done the flashlight test.  I think you might want to have an experienced sweep come out and look.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 4, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I hear you guys. My dealer is a brochure dealer only for the most part. He mostly sell gas inserts. I think he has 2 wood stoves and they are small. Going to wait until tomorrow and talk to Chris. I did get a 6 hour burn last night but it was 64° in the house when I reloaded it. There was still  a chunk of wood in there but it was charcoal. Just need more heat then that


Well in that case, it looks like you will have to rely mostly on BK's customer service for further assistance.  You have gone above and beyond what the average consumer can be expected to do.  This is an open wound and needs immediate attention.  Good luck my friend.  We feel your pain.


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## deejam (Dec 4, 2014)

Ill burner, i wish you the best of luck with this situation. I also have a brand new BK princess ultra sitting in my living room along with some DVL stove pipe and a Duratech SS chimney waiting to be installed (pic below). Even though the stove only requires spark protection the wife still would like a stone hearth pad, so im in the process of planning that out. I'm also in Illinois and could not find a decent BK dealer, let alone any that had stoves in stock. Looking to avoid the long lead time and shipping costs I ended driving almost 3 hours to Indiana to pick up my gear from a great dealer. Its unfortunate they will be not be able to do a home visit if i have any issues.

Wish you the best


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

I wish you the best. P M your number once you get it going.  I'm curious. Glad you're going through the roof


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Dee jam I am  close to the Quad City area. Where are you at?


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## deejam (Dec 4, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I wish you the best. P M your number once you get it going. I'm curious. Glad you're going through the roof


Will do




Illinois burner said:


> Dee jam I am close to the Quad City area. Where are you at?


I'm in the southwest suburbs of Chi (unincorporated area near the woods)

I'll probably start a thread in the next week or so documenting the install


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Good deal. Hell I'm only 2 hours away or so.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Deejam how much did you pay for the stove if you don't mind my asking?


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Mine was $2814 before  taxes. I got the fan kit and rear shield


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## deejam (Dec 4, 2014)

Princess Ultra w/fan and Black Door came out to be $2710 out the door (after IN tax and 10% paid in cash/check discount). About 3700 total including chimney. Probably 3850 factoring gas and trailer rental. I think the dealer recommended against the rear shield since I had the fan.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Sounds like you got a little better deal. I think that shield was around  $100


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## deejam (Dec 4, 2014)

Some of the dealers I spoke to over the phone added a ~120 shipping charge from Blaze King to their shop, and i still would have had to go pick it up. This dealer in indiana had it (actually several) in stock. I think they bulk ordered several stoves of each model early in the season and didn't have to charge the indv shipping cost. In additional to the i was happy to get another 10% paying with a check instead of credit


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Send me there info. Maybe they could give me some answers or work something out with my dealer. I would appreciate it


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## rideau (Dec 4, 2014)

I know someone mentioned this earlier, but there was no response from anyone:  For new pipe, Your stack has an awful lot of residue from burning.  Mine is 11 years old and doesn't have anything.  I don't think you should have anything, ESPECIALLY burning at such high temps.  Makes me think the cat is not burning the smoke, whether because the smoke is moving through too fast, or a problem with the cat, or another reason, I don't know.   But I think it would be a good idea to figure out why your cap and upper outer pipe are so dirty.  Might give a good indication of what is wrong here.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

I've been thinking about that today. I believe you are right. However,  I believe this is caused by a draft issue. I talked to a guy today on the phone that was very knowledgeable. One of his first questions was if the cap was clean. I told him about my manometer test yesterday.  He first said it was low until  he found  out I took the reading with the bypass closed  (Didn't know it was supposed to be open ).  Going to try some tests he told me to try. He gave me a lot of good information.  It will  be Saturday before I get to test it out


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## jeff_t (Dec 4, 2014)

My cap and top section of pipe look like that. Rain washes it clean over the summer, and after a couple of weeks it looks similar. Usually more blue than brown, but it definitely gets discolored.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 4, 2014)

Mine has blued also


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## Dieselhead (Dec 5, 2014)

If you had poor draft would you still be blowing through wood like you are? I'd figure poor draft would have a hard time burning the wood.


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## jeff_t (Dec 5, 2014)

Blaze Kings are different animals. The amount of air required for a low, even medium, burn is very small, and flue temps are pretty low. If there isn't adequate draft, more air in and a hotter fire are needed to keep it burning. Low burns stall out the cat, and leave a cool, smoky stove.


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## prezes13 (Dec 5, 2014)

I know nothing about BK stove other than I know that I want one.  I hope you figure out what the problem is and you will get the stove working the way it was intended to do.  I think that the issue is a weak draft.  Best of luck.


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## claybe (Dec 6, 2014)

Illinois, any updates???


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## Illinois burner (Dec 6, 2014)

Nothing.  Had to go back to work for a few days so been busy. Before  spending more money on the ceiling kit and more double wall for inside I decided to try another test. I'm got some extra  insulation from a side job that I'm going to use to wrap the outside pipe up to the roof line. If things improve I will change the install. If they don't  then I'm afraid I'm going to have to take more drastic matters unfortunately


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## jtb51b (Dec 8, 2014)

Notice any difference after insulating it?  I plan to build a chase for mine when we re-side the house. Maybe next year.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 8, 2014)

I honestly have not.


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## JASFARMER (Dec 10, 2014)

I thought the bkvp told you he would personally fly down if you didn't get it figured out and help get it going for you.  If I remember right he guaranteed it.  Maybe you should remind him of that before doing drastic changes or spending s bunch more money


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 12, 2014)

Illinois, we haven't heard from you in a while so I hope that means that your problem has been resolved.  Let us know how you are doing.


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## fire_man (Dec 13, 2014)

I was wondering how things turned out. Once this gets figured out it will be an interesting find.


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## jtb51b (Dec 18, 2014)

Any luck?

Jason


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## Illinois burner (Dec 18, 2014)

I was able to return the stove. I did replace it with a Pacific Energy Summit. I'm very happy.  Lots of heat. Long burns. Easy use for Momma when I'm at work. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I still believe that Blaze king makes a great product.  Still not sure what was happening. I do miss the look of the princess.  My new PE looks tiny on that big ole hearth.  Lol. Happy heating and Merry Christmas everyone


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 18, 2014)

At the end of the day you have to do what is best for yourself and your family, glad to hear the PE is working for you, maybe BKvp can contact your dealer and make arrangements to look at the stove and see if it was defective.


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## begreen (Dec 18, 2014)

Good to hear you are happy in time for the holidays. Sounds like you have a good dealer. Bring them a bottle of holiday cheer.


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## rdust (Dec 18, 2014)

Glad you were able to get a stove that is working for your home!  The Summit is a stove I'd like to run one day!  It was on my short list when I bought my Princess.  Hard to go wrong with a 3 cubic foot steel stove with a square firebox!


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## Highbeam (Dec 18, 2014)

And a SS baffle vs. the wussy ceramic board.


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## A M (Dec 18, 2014)

Dear Illinois Burner:  I have read your post from the very beginning with much interest and did not comment as I had little to add since I am a new wood stove owner with a Drolet Myriad stove; however, I felt your pain with what you were going through. I can honestly say that I am "to the moon" hearing now (12/18/14) that you got to return THAT BK stove for a PE Summit ... and (drumroll) ... that it is working like a champ in your house. Such good news to hear. Thanks for updating your original post.

  I'm sure its not just me that will be delighted that everything worked out for you. Kudos to the dealer who kept his word and made it right with you!

  Here's to 2015 and good wood burning days to continue for you and everyone who visits hearth.com!!


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## weatherguy (Dec 18, 2014)

Nothing wrong with a summit, I almost bought one myself, I hear the newer ones are even better.
How about a pic of that bad boy


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## Illinois burner (Dec 18, 2014)

Here she is!


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## Illinois burner (Dec 18, 2014)

My photo isn't loading for some reason


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## tarzan (Dec 18, 2014)

Glad your happy with the new stove but kinda bummed that the mystery will never be solved!


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 18, 2014)

Illinois burner said:


> I was able to return the stove. I did replace it with a Pacific Energy Summit. I'm very happy.  Lots of heat. Long burns. Easy use for Momma when I'm at work. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I still believe that Blaze king makes a great product.  Still not sure what was happening. I do miss the look of the princess.  My new PE looks tiny on that big ole hearth.  Lol. Happy heating and Merry Christmas everyone


Congratulations and Merry Christmas.  Not sure why that BK didn't work out - they are usually very strong performers.  I guess not all stoves work in all situations.  But all's well that ends well.  Enjoy a warm winter.


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## jtb51b (Dec 19, 2014)

i too am gladyou were able to get into a stove that works for you. I wish that had been an option for me when I was having troubles with mine. It would have went back, and I wouldn't have looked back!  It would be great if BK could comment at some point on what was actually the problem, it may help others in the future.  

Jason


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## BKVP (Dec 19, 2014)

To all of you that tried to help, thank you.  An update on this unit will be provided in the future, rest assured.

Merry Christmas!


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## shoot-straight (Dec 19, 2014)

Glad ur dealer stepped up and you're happy.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 20, 2014)

Finally got it uploaded. Load it at 9 p.m. and still flames at 6 a.m. Heats the house up quickly if I need it. New wood flames up crazy fast on new load. Really like the auto fan. Big heat I lowered the pipe outside to code height and still works just fine. I can't get over how simple it is to operate. Warm house=happy home= happy Dad! 17° last night 74° when I woke up this morning.  Poor ole funace is going to be junk from rusting before it gets tired and quits. Lol. I love not waking up to the furnace running at 2 a.m. I'm a light sleeper and that always puts me in a fowl mood when waking up.


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## alforit (Dec 20, 2014)

BKVP said:


> To all of you that tried to help, thank you.  An update on this unit will be provided in the future, rest assured.
> 
> Merry Christmas!



Please show us a photo of it first before you push it off the edge of the boat.


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## brad wilton (Dec 20, 2014)

i don't know if your allowed on the forum but I would give the dealers name, nowadays it's hard to find people to man up when there's a problem  kudos to dealer


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## Highbeam (Dec 20, 2014)

Since that pe should have been much cheaper, did you get a refund or lose the difference? Did you consider the t6 version?


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 20, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Since that pe should have been much cheaper, did you get a refund or lose the difference? Did you consider the t6 version?


This is not the time to rub salt in the wound or second guess.  The man is happy and that's all that matters.  Merry Christmas to all.


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## alforit (Dec 20, 2014)

Tenn Dave said:


> This is not the time to rub salt in the wound or second guess.  The man is happy and that's all that matters.  Merry Christmas to all.



HUH ? 

I think it was an innocent question and I'm curious myself , how the dealer handled the price difference with him.


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## Illinois burner (Dec 20, 2014)

I did get a full return. Just the heritage classic.  I had an extra $350 dollars after the swap. Stuck it right in the LP tank while prices are low. Wish I had the $, time, wood back from trying to get the other one to run right. However,  lesson learned and time to move on. My family is warm. That's all that matters to me. PE is offering  a $200 coupon until the end of year,  which was nice


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## A M (Dec 20, 2014)

It's a nice looking and solid stove that I've heard many, many GOOD things about the PE, mainly on hearth.com, but also on other places on the web. Thanks again for sharing your entire experience with the viewing readers. Yeah, ... I admit. I love to hear about happy or positive endings in life, and this was one of them. Have a good Christmas, also.


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2014)

Merry Christmas IB, good to hear you are still a happy camper. Thanks for posting the beauty shot.


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## rideau (Dec 20, 2014)

Saw a PE in operation at the stove store when I picked up my ICC damper.  It surely is a pretty stove.  Had the store toasty warm.  I'm sure you'll love the stove.  Merry Christmas.


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## Rickb (Dec 20, 2014)

I'd be interested to hear if the stove shop finds anything wrong with that princess.....


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2014)

Sometimes there is a problem and sometimes there's nothing wrong with the stove, it is just a poor fit for the circumstances. Different stoves draft, load and burn differently. We had an old fellow here that complained for years about his Summit. The stove was heating the place fine, but he wasn't satisfied. I deduced it was that he was missing and wanted radiant stove, but he would not listen. I even asked him to pull the sides on the stove just to test it out. He never did, it was easier to just complain. Word is he finally got an unshielded, radiant stove and now thinks it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Old bones just needed that penetrating radiant heat to be happy.


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## Highbeam (Dec 21, 2014)

Tenn Dave said:


> This is not the time to rub salt in the wound or second guess.  The man is happy and that's all that matters.  Merry Christmas to all.



Not what I meant Dave. You are wrong in your assumption.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 22, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Not what I meant Dave. You are wrong in your assumption.


sorry Highbeam - it was an uncalled for knee jerk reaction on my part.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 22, 2014)

Tenn Dave said:


> This is not the time to rub salt in the wound or second guess.  *The man is happy and that's all that matters.*  Merry Christmas to all.



You know what else matters?  Money.  And not getting ripped off.


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## Highbeam (Dec 22, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You know what else matters?  Money.  And not getting ripped off.


 
Yes. The OP went from one well liked stove to another well liked stove. He liked one better but there is the matter of equity.We know he is happy with the summit, he said so.


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## alforit (Dec 23, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You know what else matters?  Money.  And not getting ripped off.



+1


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## r0ttie1 (Dec 25, 2014)

Highbeam said:


> Yes. The OP went from one well liked stove to another well liked stove. He liked one better but there is the matter of equity.We know he is happy with the summit, he said so.


Being happy is a wonderful thing.  I have a Princess and  am grateful to have not experienced any of the OP's problems.


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## Tenn Dave (Dec 25, 2014)

alforit said:


> +1


You take the money, I'll settle for being happy.  Merry Christmas & Happy New Year


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## kennyp2339 (Dec 25, 2014)

Merry xmas to all, I hope bk investigates and reports about the op stove, I'm more curious than anything


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## BKVP (Apr 2, 2015)

Well, I am back several months later.

First, we did receive the stove back months ago.  We have been too busy to work with the stove or even unwrap it until this week.  I have MANY concerns based upon the condition of the stove when it arrived. EQUALLY frustrating is the easy fix/steps that may have resolved some of the burning attributes/probelms.

I personally handled this review.  I removed the shrink wrap and banding straps from the stove.  The front loading door was packaged off the stove.  Images were taken at every step.

The first thing I noticed was the door glass was VERY clean.  The original post included the fact the stove would only burn 4 hours on 35 or more pounds of fuel.  With low burns, it is no secret the door glass would not be cleean but rather have build up on the glass. I hung the door on the stove.  I performed a dollar bill test and the door was tight as can be.  

I placed my hands on each side of the glass and the glass moved freely within the door frame!  The gasket was in place but not tight whatsoever.  The glass moved up, down in and out of the frame. This is where the air leak was located.  Two wishes here of course.  First, that WE would have done a better job of the tension and second, the dealer would have done the same inspection when in the owners home.

I then took notice that the bricks in the bottom of the stove were broken in several places.  Visually, there was tremendous build up across the flame shield.  I removed the flame shield.  Not suprizingly, there was a golf ball size hole in the cat.  However, the front surface was also dramtically plugged due to poor combustion/draft.

I examined the by pass plate and found both condition and tension on the seal to be excellent.  The OP had been sent a new thermostat.  The thermostat manually rotated and responded to free movements according to factory audit manual settings.

Next, we removed an R & D project from the dilution tunnel and placed the stove on the scale.  I replaced the damaged combustor with a used stainless steel combustor.  A coal bed was created by using dry splits and a propane torch used in order to expedite.  Scale was zeroed and 45 lbs of dry (12% cord wood, soft wood/hard wood) mix was loaded into the stove on the hot coal bed.  Within minutes (8-10) the cat elevated above 1000 degrees F and the thermostat was set on a medium burn rate.  The time was 3:00 p.m. this past Tuesday.  The scale 28 minutes later, 3:28 p.m., the fuel load was now 42 pounds. (This is typical as the water is boiled out first and contributes to greatest weight loss at the beginning of the burn).

Visual inspection showed zero smoke.  Thermostat was left unadjusted and all test equipment turned on including data logger. IR gun readings 2" in front of cat therm ranged from 457 (low) and 750 (high)

14 hours later, the cat dropped below 500 degrees F.  Again, this was a medium burn rate.

NOTE:  This 14 hour burn was with the original door untouched.  Glass was clean 14 hours later (in the a.m.)

Conclusion: Door glass leak resulted in poor performance and customer frustration.  The leak took out the cat.  Poor draft contributed to low temps, resulting is excessive coaling experienced by OP.  Pictures will be posted if need be, but I think you all get the idea.

One perfectly good Princess Ultra, with a new door, stainless cat now for sale! (just kidding...we'll donate it to a charity).

Thank you all for trying to help the OP and we are all pleased he is happy with the stove he has.


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## rdust (Apr 2, 2015)

BKVP said:


> I placed my hands on each side of the glass and the glass moved freely within the door frame!  The gasket was in place but not tight whatsoever.  The glass moved up, down in and out of the frame. This is where the air leak was located.  Two wishes here of course.  First, that WE would have done a better job of the tension and second, the dealer would have done the same inspection when in the owners home.
> 
> I then took notice that the bricks in the bottom of the stove were broken in several places.  Visually, there was tremendous build up across the flame shield.  I removed the flame shield.  Not suprizingly, there was a golf ball size hole in the cat.  However, the front surface was also dramtically plugged due to poor combustion/draft.



Thanks for the follow up!  It's really too bad the door glass issue wasn't caught by quality before it went out or when the dealer made the visit.  We'll have to add that question to the list of questions we ask when people are experiencing issues.  

If you get any Princess inserts you want to sell as refurbished units let me know!  My living would like the addition this coming winter.


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## BKVP (Apr 2, 2015)

rdust said:


> Thanks for the follow up!  It's really too bad the door glass issue wasn't caught by quality before it went out or when the dealer made the visit.  We'll have to add that question to the list of questions we ask when people are experiencing issues.
> 
> If you get any Princess inserts you want to sell as refurbished units let me know!  My living would like the addition this coming winter.



We try to use what few stoves we run across for charity or church camp donations.  But thank you.


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## kennyp2339 (Apr 2, 2015)

Nice job Chris, go follow up, and follow through, that type of work and truthfulness will keep your company growing and prospering.


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## BrotherBart (Apr 2, 2015)

Brotherbart's Rest Home is accepting donations. An un-registered 501c3 charity.


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## Rickb (Apr 2, 2015)

Its great to see the follow up and what the root cause was.  The problems he was experiencing were a first for any of the princesses I have seen here.


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## webby3650 (Apr 2, 2015)

Illinois burner said:


> I'm new on here. Not sure how to find Zanny. At 6:30 I was down to a few coals. Still just into active. About 240° on stove top. I would have to borrow my buddies bucket truck again.  Here's pics of the outside.


Am I the only one to notice the wooden Tee support? 
Illinois burner, get a proper Tee support on there as soon as possible!


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## alforit (Apr 2, 2015)

BKVP said:


> Well, I am back several months later.
> 
> First, we did receive the stove back months ago.  We have been too busy to work with the stove or even unwrap it until this week.  I have MANY concerns based upon the condition of the stove when it arrived. EQUALLY frustrating is the easy fix/steps that may have resolved some of the burning attributes/probelms.
> 
> ...




HUH ?? Confused here.    You said the door was untouched ?   Meaning you didn't adjust the loose glass ?  And you got a 14 hour burn?  That's pretty normal on a medium settting.   The OP was getting around 4 hours. So then the only thing you did was replace the cat for this test. That doesn't completely add up.

How did the OP not see this tremendous build up on the heat shield ? And the golf ball sized hole in the cat ? Along with it being dramatically plugged ? 
He was asked several times to check the cat for its condition if I remember right. How did he miss all that ?

We could have helped him a lot more by getting a report of that condition and damage going on. Still not adding up here.

Whats up with the broken bricks  ?  I hit mine a lot by accident when I am breaking up my coals for reload and I have never fractured one yet.

Hmmmm


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## rdust (Apr 2, 2015)

alforit said:


> HUH ?? Confused here.    You said the door was untouched ?   Meaning you didn't adjust the loose glass ?  And you got a 14 hour burn?  That's pretty normal on a medium settting.   The OP was getting around 4 hours. So then the only thing you did was replace the cat for this test. That doesn't completely add up.
> 
> How did the OP not see this tremendous build up on the heat shield ? And the golf ball sized hole in the cat ? Along with it being dramatically plugged ?
> He was asked several times to check the cat for its condition if I remember right. How did he miss all that ?
> ...



I'm thinking the cat fell apart when it was shipped assuming it was ceramic.  I'm sure the dealer wouldn't have missed a golf ball sized hole.  The 14hr burn was when the cat went inactive, the OP had trouble with it heating the place, it was probably cranked on high and was left with a pile of coals after 4 hours.  I couldn't burn a full load down to nothing in 4 hours if I tried.


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## webby3650 (Apr 2, 2015)

rdust said:


> I'm thinking the cat fell apart when it was shipped assuming it was ceramic.  I'm sure the dealer wouldn't have missed a golf ball sized hole.  The 14hr burn was when the cat went inactive, the OP had trouble with it heating the place, it was probably cranked on high and was left with a pile of coals after 4 hours.  I couldn't burn a full load down to nothing in 4 hours if I tried.


No, the cat was damaged from the leaking glass gasket. Not shipping.


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## jeff_t (Apr 2, 2015)

webby3650 said:


> Am I the only one to notice the wooden Tee support?
> Illinois burner, get a proper Tee support on there as soon as possible!



Well, no. I refrained from comment on that before. It wasn't related to the issue at hand, but yeah, that could be bad news.

Interesting follow up.


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## rdust (Apr 2, 2015)

webby3650 said:


> No, the cat was damaged from the leaking glass gasket. Not shipping.



I agree it was damaged from the leaking gasket.  I just don't buy that it had a golf ball sized hole in it that the dealer and OP missed.  If the dealer missed a golf ball sized hole when they went to visit BK should yank them as a distributor of their stove or provide them with more training.  You know and I know it doesn't get much easier than removing the flame guard on the Princess to see the cat in this stove.


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## stovelark (Apr 2, 2015)

Very interesting reading,  I do believe the dealer was at his house with it burning-  not easy to inspect anything internally or glass at that point.   Some times we all do miss the obvious things, but in all fairness, the glass left the factory loose. Happy to report we sold many BK Princesses this past season, everyone seemed happy, haven't heard otherwise.  Doesn't surprise to hear he likes his Summit, big honking steel stoves are easy to like and burn.  Good luck to us all.


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## BKVP (Apr 3, 2015)

rdust said:


> I'm thinking the cat fell apart when it was shipped assuming it was ceramic.  I'm sure the dealer wouldn't have missed a golf ball sized hole.  The 14hr burn was when the cat went inactive, the OP had trouble with it heating the place, it was probably cranked on high and was left with a pile of coals after 4 hours.  I couldn't burn a full load down to nothing in 4 hours if I tried.


For the size of the hole in the cat, there was ZERO ceramic material laying loose.  It was most definitely not a freight damage issue.  It is troubling that it was ot noticed.  Also, the flame shield had extensive deposits which would have been quite visible.


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## stovelark (Apr 3, 2015)

One thing I find confusing here, there definitely was an unfamiliarity on this stove by (apparently) the dealer, the op and to a degree all of us for not thinking the basics about too much airflow (and reasons that could cause it) through this stove. But, why was BK's sales rep for his area not involved?  Seems the dealer would have gotten him involved as obviously this customer was struggling to find a reason. I know our sales rep here locally has answered a couple of my questions IRT operations, cat info, etc.  I mean, that is one reason for a sales rep- to help in these issues, his/her familiarity with his particular stoves sometimes is what is needed. We're all glad it got resolved, but the stove took a pounding it sounds like.


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## BKVP (Apr 3, 2015)

stovelark said:


> One thing I find confusing here, there definitely was an unfamiliarity on this stove by (apparently) the dealer, the op and to a degree all of us for not thinking the basics about too much airflow (and reasons that could cause it) through this stove. But, why was BK's sales rep for his area not involved?  Seems the dealer would have gotten him involved as obviously this customer was struggling to find a reason. I know our sales rep here locally has answered a couple of my questions IRT operations, cat info, etc.  I mean, that is one reason for a sales rep- to help in these issues, his/her familiarity with his particular stoves sometimes is what is needed. We're all glad it got resolved, but the stove took a pounding it sounds like.



Blaze King did not have sales reps in all regions.  We have nearly every region now covered and the ones we have know the product.  (we are still recruitiing for a couple of regions)  Candidly, there were phone calls and other communications to the OP (some by myself) asking about the very nature or condition of components.  I am going to leave this alone from this point.

Over and out......


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## BrotherBart (Apr 3, 2015)

And as the lights come up and the credits roll...


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