# Buy the best and only cry once?



## Hills Hoard (Mar 25, 2013)

I replied to "the wine guys" thread on cheap chainsaws but thought i'd start another topic for discussion.

Has anyone else had luck/success or a positive experience with cheaper gear...

I only have a McCulloch chainsaw (M3616 i think...36 cc, 40 cm bar) and compared to a higher end chainsaw it feels like a cheap plastic toy......compared to the Stihl i used the other day it actually feels dangerous.....but i keep it clean, sharp, lubed and its been faultless for 3 years...i only spent $200 on it....... in winter it gets very heavy regular domestic use, both dropping trees, chopping up trees, trimming trees, camping, clearing bushes.. My brother has also had a cheap McCulloch for close to 8 years..similar use to mine, and still going strong...

As the saying  goes" buy the best and only cry once".....but I would suggest that for domestic use there might be a happy medium where you don't have to spend top dollar on all equipment...

Axes on the other hand....I've never had a cheap axe last more than one winter...


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## fabsroman (Mar 25, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> I replied to "the wine guys" thread on cheap chainsaws but thought i'd start another topic for discussion.
> 
> Has anyone else had luck/success or a positive experience with cheaper gear...
> 
> ...


 
You can buy a cheaper Stihl too that might be better than the McCulloch. I truly believe in buying the best gear you can afford. I plan on using the saws I have until I am 60+, along with a lot of other gear I have. Using good gear just makes the work so much more fun. My dad has had 2 McCullochs and a Craftsman saw. He used mine in 2011 when I first got them and he has been looking at them at the dealer every time we go in there. Went int there with him the other day and he has decided on the Stihl MS251 for $380 I believe. Not a pro level saw, but a really good medium use saw. It will do everything he needs done at his place when I am not around.

As he was leaving my house tonight after the party for my daughter's baptism, he replied "I'll talk to you during the week. Pretty sure you will have some free wood somewhere that we need to get." I almost burst out laughing.


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## MasterMech (Mar 25, 2013)

Plenty of folks on here cutting a ton of wood with mid-grade Stihls and Husqvarnas. You don't have to buy a $1000 saw to cut firewood for sure but some of us have a sickness.....

The theory that a homeowner can get away with sub-par tools is bunk. You should purchase quality tools. Do you need the absolute best performing tool on the market? Probably not. But you should look to purchase quality tools and in the case of machines, from a supplier that will also be able to provide parts and service. That's really the key, being able to maintain a tool so it will last many years rather than toss it after the first failure.


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## Beer Belly (Mar 25, 2013)

I have a Craftsman saw that I've used for years before buying my Stihl for over twice the money.....still use the craftsman often, it's been a good saw to me and has never let me down


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## gzecc (Mar 25, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> I replied to "the wine guys" thread on cheap chainsaws but thought i'd start another topic for discussion.
> 
> Has anyone else had luck/success or a positive experience with cheaper gear...
> 
> ...


 Its impossible to buy the best of everything. Its too expensive. As a contractor, I buy the best I need for the task at hand. If I use it a lot, its a very heavy duty item. If its used infrequently, a lesser quality (price) gets considered.
I personally would rather buy high quality used than average quality new.


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## lukem (Mar 25, 2013)

I agree with gzecc...you shouldn't buy more tool than you need if you are not making a living on it, it doesn't have to be dependable, and you use it infrequently.

I have lots of high quality tools that I use all the time (DeWalt compound miter saw, DeWalt impact driver and drill, Stihl pro grade saw, I consider my Honda ATV a tool, commercial ZTR mower, etc, etc). If one of these goes down it will seriously cramp my style....so I spent the extra $ on them.

I have lots of lower quality tools that I rarely use (floor jack, hammer drill, angle grinder, etc, etc,) that I use maybe three times a year, at most. If one of these goes down...no big deal. I'd rather be inconvenienced if they break than have $100+ tied up in each of them. If I used them regularly, needed them for my income, or life would really suck if it went down (like a generator)...I'd pony up some more $ for them.


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## fabsroman (Mar 25, 2013)

lukem said:


> I agree with gzecc...you shouldn't buy more tool than you need if you are not making a living on it, it doesn't have to be dependable, and you use it infrequently.
> 
> I have lots of high quality tools that I use all the time (DeWalt compound miter saw, DeWalt impact driver and drill, Stihl pro grade saw, I consider my Honda ATV a tool, commercial ZTR mower, etc, etc). If one of these goes down it will seriously cramp my style....so I spent the extra $ on them.
> 
> I have lots of lower quality tools that I rarely use (floor jack, hammer drill, angle grinder, etc, etc,) that I use maybe three times a year, at most. If one of these goes down...no big deal. I'd rather be inconvenienced if they break than have $100+ tied up in each of them. If I used them regularly, needed them for my income, or life would really suck if it went down (like a generator)...I'd pony up some more $ for them.


 
Yeah, it all comes down to what you can afford. If you can afford the highest quality item out there even if you only use it infrequently, then that is a different matter. I plan on buying a John Deere 3720 not because I "need" it or I will make a living with it, but because I want it. Think I already mentioned this, but I spent $200 on a brake line flaring tool recently. Could I have gotten the job done with the $40 set I have? Most definitely. Would it have been as easy and clean as the $200 tool? Nope. Will I use the tool again? Most likely since my dad's truck is 18 years old and mine is 10 years old. Might even use it on some fuel lines too.

Did I buy the cheaper $100 set of Craftsman (Made in China) flare nut wrenches in lieu of the $250 set of Matco (Made in America) flare nut wrenches? Yep. Just could not justify the additional cost for what I considered not much more in the quality department other than feeling good about buying Made in the USA. We all have our breaking point on tools and hobby items where the additional cost is not worth it to us. Thing is, this breaking point is different for all of us.

When my dad first started his home remodeling business, he bought a lot of Craftsman power tools because money was tight and quickly learned that they do not hold up long to frequent use. So, he started buying Rockwell tools and has since switched to Milwaukee and DeWalt. End of the day, the question is 1) can you afford the tool, 2) does the additional features/longevity warrant the additional cost? Just one more balancing act in life.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 25, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> I spent $200 on a brake line flaring tool recently. Could I have gotten the job done with the $40 set I have?


 
I bought one of the cheap flaring tools years ago. Figured I wouldn't use it much so why spend more? Every time I use it I hate it. Hard to use without putting it in vise to hold tight while I struggle far too long to make a crappy looking double flare. Usually ends with bloody knuckles and swearing. Forget trying to make a flare on an existing line under a vehicle. I should just order the mastercool brake set today and be done with it. But every time I need to replace a line the cheap tool works. Just not as easily as it should.

I think with chainsaws if you have the right size saw for the job at hand you'll be safer. Sure you can cut through a 36" tree with a 42cc saw and 18" bar. But I think you're experience will not be enjoyable. And you'll tire yourself out faster and that's when mistakes happen -- and the consequence will be worse than a few bloody knuckles.

Watch CL long enough and you'll find some deals on good brand name saws -- just be ready to move fast. And keep your saw for limbing and backup duty, no need to trim limbs with a big saw either.


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## fabsroman (Mar 25, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I bought one of the cheap flaring tools years ago. Figured I wouldn't use it much so why spend more? Every time I use it I hate it. Hard to use without putting it in vise to hold tight while I struggle far too long to make a crappy looking double flare. Usually ends with bloody knuckles and swearing. Forget trying to make a flare on an existing line under a vehicle. I should just order the mastercool brake set today and be done with it. But every time I need to replace a line the cheap tool works. Just not as easily as it should.
> 
> I think with chainsaws if you have the right size saw for the job at hand you'll be safer. Sure you can cut through a 36" tree with a 42cc saw and 18" bar. But I think you're experience will not be enjoyable. And you'll tire yourself out faster and that's when mistakes happen -- and the consequence will be worse than a few bloody knuckles.
> 
> Watch CL long enough and you'll find some deals on good brand name saws -- just be ready to move fast. And keep your saw for limbing and backup duty.


 
I bought the cheap one 9 years ago when I had to replace the front driver side line on my dad's F-150. Figured I would never use it again. Then last year one of the rear lines failed on my 98 Taurus. Got lucky on that one because it was only leaking a tiny bit. I was just under the impression that the pads had worn out and that was the reason for the longer stopping distances. Then noticed the pedal was really spongy. Took a look at it about this time last year and noticed there was no brake fluid in the reservoir. Filled it up, stomped on the pedal as hard as I could, and it went to the floor, leaving a huge puddle of brake fluid on the floor of my garage. I had to use the emergency brake to move the car out of the garage. Took a look under it, and was horrified. The lines weren't metal, they were rust. Both lines hugging the frame rail were toast and the one going from the proportioning block in the rear to the passenger side rear wheel looked like it was going next. So, I ended up replace a ton of lines. Guessing 7 different lines with 14 flares total, because I had to 2 I had to replace coming from the master to the anti-lock system, the 4 going from the anti-lock system throughout the car, and then the one going from the proportioning valve in the rear of the vehicle to the rear passenger side wheel. Took about 6 hours to get the job done, but at least I didn't have a single bad flare, and these were ISO bubble flares.

I'm young enough that I will use tools way more than one time in my lifetime. The longer they hang around and I live, the more they will get used.

Missed a deal on a new MS362 on CL for $550 last month. I wanted to kick myself. Luckily, I don't need that saw.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 25, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Missed a deal on a new MS362 on CL for $550 last month.


 

There is a year old ms362 here on CL for 350. Guy said it has a cracked top cover and clutch cover. I offered him 200. Might have offended him since he won't respond again


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## Scols (Mar 25, 2013)

Confucious say "Only a rich man can afford cheap tools".


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## Mass. Wine Guy (Mar 25, 2013)

With most anything there is the lowest and the very highest quality. Usually, there is also somewhere in the middle. That's often where I can afford to buy. I like to cook, so I bought three All-Clad pans that give me most of the versatility I need. They're not cheap, but I don't think I'll ever need to replace any of them. So which is less expensive: Buying T-Fal junk every few months or spending more upfront on All-Clad and never needing to replace them?


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## fabsroman (Mar 25, 2013)

Mass. Wine Guy said:


> With most anything there is the lowest and the very highest quality. Usually, there is also somewhere in the middle. That's often where I can afford to buy. I like to cook, so I bought three All-Clad pans that give me most of the versatility I need. They're not cheap, but I don't think I'll ever need to replace any of them. So which is less expensive: Buying T-Fal junk every few months or spending more upfront on All-Clad and never needing to replace them?


 
Yeah, we have a set of Calphalon and after 10 years they look like crap. My wife is thinking about going a different route with the next set of pots and pans. Now the Henckel knives, those should last forever. 10 years and they are still going strong.


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## Hills Hoard (Mar 25, 2013)

Deep down I know I should have invested more money on a better quality product.  before I upgrade though, I need to invest in a hydraulic splitter   Just need to get that one by the wife 

Scols, that saying is hilarious...."Only a rich man can afford cheap tools"...i love it...


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## fabsroman (Mar 25, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> Deep down I know I should have invested more money on a better quality product. before I upgrade though, I need to invest in a hydraulic splitter  Just need to get that one by the wife
> 
> Scols, that saying is hilarious...."Only a rich man can afford cheap tools"...i love it...


 
Yeah, I already had access to a hydraulic splitter before I bought my saws. I think the hydraulic splitter would be the most important part of all this since an entry level one is much more expensive than an entry level chainsaw. I cannot imagine splitting all this wood by hand.


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 25, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> I replied to "the wine guys" thread on cheap chainsaws but thought i'd start another topic for discussion.
> 
> Has anyone else had luck/success or a positive experience with cheaper gear...
> 
> ...


 
Have you ever heard the old saw?  Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. If you already have the tools that will do the job there is no reason to be looking to buy new, economically speaking. Yes, buying good gear makes sense but not until it is needed.


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## jlightning (Mar 25, 2013)

I also believe in buying the best tools that I can afford.  Some of my hobbies started out w/ average tools then were replaced w/ more expensive tools.  I almost always regret buying cheap tools these days and if the cheaper tools are replaced w/ high end tools then I wasted money on the cheap ones.  Once in a while I am tempted to purchase something w/ questionable quality if the online reviews are good.  PS...All-Clad pans are AWESOME!  The only pans I won't ever have to replace and will be handed down to my kids some day!


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## Adkjake (Mar 25, 2013)

Kind of a roll of the dice type thing I guess. I have a Poulan Pro, bought at Lowe's 4 years ago for $125. Starts on first or second pull every time, runs well, cuts well. I also have a Husqvarna of similar cc and same bar length, $220 at TSP 3 years ago, doesn't start quite as easily, but starts OK, cuts a bit better, a little more power. They both get about the same amount of time cutting, so the real test will be, how are they doing 5 years from now


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## 343amc (Mar 25, 2013)

For limbing and small stuff I have a el cheapo Poulan Wood Shark with a 14" bar.  I bought that about 8 years back when Menards had a 18% off whatever you can cram in a plastic bin sale after Christmas.  After the discount  it was somewhere around $80.  For that price I couldn't pass it up.  That saw has never let me down.  All I've done to it is clean the air filter and replace the chain.

My main "go-to saw" is a Stihl MS-290.  No complaints about that either, and I know that saw will probably last as long as I feel like cutting, which is the reason I bought it.  It was a bit to heavy (and overkill) to use for smaller stuff, which is why I picked up the cheap Poulan.  

For me it depends on what the application is.  For impact sockets that I use once or twice a year, the Harbor Freight ones do just fine.  For ratchets, screwdrivers, or anything else that could result in a skinned knuckle or what not, then its something quality.


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 25, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Plenty of folks on here cutting a ton of wood with mid-grade Stihls and Husqvarnas. You don't have to buy a $1000 saw to cut firewood for sure but some of us have a sickness.....
> 
> The theory that a homeowner can get away with sub-par tools is bunk. You should purchase quality tools. Do you need the absolute best performing tool on the market? Probably not. But you should look to purchase quality tools and in the case of machines, from a supplier that will also be able to provide parts and service. That's really the key, being able to maintain a tool so it will last many years rather than toss it after the first failure.


 
Love the fact that I have a Stihl dealer 5 minutes away and that they take care of warranty issues, and odd things that came up, so far, no charge. I'm an OK bike mechanic for an editor, but saws are still new territory for me. my bike doesn't have a carburettor ... but wait...


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## Thistle (Mar 25, 2013)

Bought my Poulan Super 380 new in March 2000 from local saw/OPE dealer. 3.8 cubic inch,62cc,13500RPMs. 12.5lbs dry weight.Was built in mid-late '90's,the last of their true 'farm/ranch' saws with chrome plated cylinder,dual thin piston rings for more RPM's/power & all magnesium crankcase for durability.Will pull a 24" B/C with authority,but I wanted it with a 20" cause that fits inside the case much better.Poulan no longer makes any saws bigger than 50cc or with all mag cases.

$355 out the door,comparable saw today would be around $600+

After 100+ cords,all kinds of abuse in all weather conditions it still starts 2-3 pulls cold,1 pull warm.Have NEVER adjusted the carb either,whatever they did at the dealer when assembling it obviously worked.All I've done to it besides regular maintenance & cleaning after use over the years is replaced the spark plug once,3 new air filters,new clutch/8tooth rim sprocket May 2011 & finally replaced original bar last September.

Main saw that does 80% of my cutting.Still going strong.I have no complaints.


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 25, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I think with chainsaws if you have the right size saw for the job at hand you'll be safer. Sure you can cut through a 36" tree with a 42cc saw and 18" bar. But I think you're experience will not be enjoyable. And you'll tire yourself out faster and that's when mistakes happen -- and the consequence will be worse than a few bloody knuckles.


 

I guess I kinda like my saw cos I keep on trying find wood to feed it  and jobs for it to do.

As for the size of saw. Yes, you're right 40+cc and 18" bar is a bit of a slog in a big piece of wood, but as this saw beds in, I'm more amazed at it's thirst for cutting. It must be fun to use or I wouldn't keep bringing it logs to have it's way with. I don't cut bigger than I can carry, so 18" is about as big is I'll scrounge.

In retrospect I might have gone with a MS 290 for just a little more dough, then I could have had an excuse to get a small saw too  but the good thing about a 45cc is it's light enough for most anything, and if it's in the van it's big enough to be a 1-saw do-all for a h/o scrounger. But let's face it who "wants" just one saw? [Needs is a completely different story ... I read someplace everybody needs a backup saw, so that's just for starters, I guess heh heh. ]


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## DexterDay (Mar 25, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> ?....I need to invest in a hydraulic splitter   Just need to get that one by the wife ..



My Wife found mine in the garage about a week after I bought it 

She said "When did we get a splitter?" 

I said "We've had that for awhile" 

She said "We didn't buy a splitter. You bought a splitter and didn't tell me!!"  

It's a purchase I have never regretted. Certain tools demand more money. Some not so much. But something I use often, I will buy quality. (In the case of chainsaws, it's quality and QUANTITY! )


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## MasterMech (Mar 25, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> My Wife found mine in the garage about a week after I bought it
> 
> She said "When did we get a splitter?"
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I went the "beg for forgiveness route" too Dex.  I took my P/T job "play" pney and bought the splitter.  Brought it home, sat through the storm of verbal thunder.  First time I fired it up, she was right there wanting to run it.  After about 5 minutes I think I was forgiven.


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## MasterMech (Mar 25, 2013)

No surprise that there are six MS290 owners in this thread.


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## Adabiviak (Mar 26, 2013)

I've been using the same 14" Craftsman chainsaw for around 15 years... got it at Orchard for like $75.


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## blacktail (Mar 26, 2013)

343amc said:


> For limbing and small stuff I have a el cheapo Poulan Wood Shark with a 14" bar.
> ---snip---
> My main "go-to saw" is a Stihl MS-290. No complaints about that either, and I know that saw will probably last as long as I feel like cutting, which is the reason I bought it. It was a bit to heavy (and overkill) to use for smaller stuff, which is why I picked up the cheap Poulan.


 
My unlce gave me a Wood Shark that he bought for small stuff around his property. He cussed it because it was hard to start. I put fresh gas in it and it's fine. It can be hard to start if it's cold out but once it's fired up it does pretty good for a Walmart saw. Once I bought my house I bought a 290 for a main saw. Night and day difference in quality.

I try to buy quality items if it's something I'll use on a regular basis. I may not buy the best but I'll at least buy something from a reputable manufacturer. For example, my 290 isn't a pro saw, but it's a Stihl and has a decent reputation. I do the same with other important things like fishing rods, reels, and guns.


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## mywaynow (Mar 26, 2013)

Your need for one saw vs another will depend on your budget and your volume of work.  I used a 150 dollar saw for 2 seasons of cutting and was just fine with it.  Got into a huge oak that was a bit on the dangerous side and invested >500 on a Husky.  Used that a couple times and realized how much time I wasted with the homowner saw.  Now I have 2 commercial grade Huskys and should never have to buy another.  (unless its a great deal!)


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## Jack Fate (Mar 26, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> Love the fact that I have a Stihl dealer 5 minutes away and that they take care of warranty issues, and odd things that came up, so far, no charge. I'm an OK bike mechanic for an editor, but saws are still new territory for me. my bike doesn't have a carburettor ... but wait...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 _I've noticed quite a few bike geeks here /maybe we all can post pics of our stables in the appropriate place sometime_


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## Jack Fate (Mar 26, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> My Wife found mine in the garage about a week after I bought it
> 
> She said "When did we get a splitter?"
> 
> ...


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 26, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> _I've noticed quite a few bike geeks here /maybe we all can post pics of our stables in the appropriate place sometime_


 
Bikes, dogs with some border collie genes, wives with a quick temper, what's not to like? ... only yours seems to prefer beer while mine prefers the aroma of a fine single malt...the nosey dog that is.


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## fabsroman (Mar 26, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> I guess I kinda like my saw cos I keep on trying find wood to feed it  and jobs for it to do.
> 
> As for the size of saw. Yes, you're right 40+cc and 18" bar is a bit of a slog in a big piece of wood, but as this saw beds in, I'm more amazed at it's thirst for cutting. It must be fun to use or I wouldn't keep bringing it logs to have it's way with. I don't cut bigger than I can carry, so 18" is about as big is I'll scrounge.
> 
> In retrospect I might have gone with a MS 290 for just a little more dough, then I could have had an excuse to get a small saw too  but the good thing about a 45cc is it's light enough for most anything, and if it's in the van it's big enough to be a 1-saw do-all for a h/o scrounger. *But let's face it who "wants" just one saw?* [Needs is a completely different story ... I read someplace everybody needs a backup saw, so that's just for starters, I guess heh heh. ]


 
Just like bikes, you need a backup for the backup's backup to the backup. Then you need your main ride. I even have backup frames and components. Have to be able to ride when I want to.


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## fabsroman (Mar 26, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> My Wife found mine in the garage about a week after I bought it
> 
> She said "When did we get a splitter?"
> 
> ...


 
Dex, did you edit out the part about the John Deere 2320? I was initially looking at the 2720, but have come to the conclusion that I need a loader with more lift capacity so it is going to end up being the 3720. Would love the 4000 series, but that would just looked retarded on my 2 acres. My wife is actually alright with the purchase. I had been looking at tractor when we were looking at 6 acre lots so she got over the sticker price pretty quickly. My in-laws about had a heart attack when they found out a tractor can cost as much as a car. The backhoe will have to wait another year though. Don't think I myself can swallow the tractor, loader, and backhoe cost all in one shot. We need to put in french drains and some serious drywells because the backyard is a swamp when it rains. The tractor and attachments should pay for most of themselves just with all that work. Then we are looking at a 40x40 addition to the house that needs to be excavated slightly. More money in the bank.

Thing is, I already went with a ZTR for mowing. Getting ready to order a bench grinder for the main reason of sharpening the blades on the ZTR. Sharpen the blades a couple of times and the grinder will have paid for itself. I ran the bench grinder and a workbench by my wife this morning and she didn't even ask "How much?".


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## MasterMech (Mar 26, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Dex, did you edit out the part about the John Deere 2320? I was initially looking at the 2720, but have come to the conclusion that I need a loader with more lift capacity so it is going to end up being the 3720. Would love the 4000 series, but that would just looked retarded on my 2 acres. My wife is actually alright with the purchase. I had been looking at tractor when we were looking at 6 acre lots so she got over the sticker price pretty quickly. My in-laws about had a heart attack when they found out a tractor can cost as much as a car. The backhoe will have to wait another year though. Don't think I myself can swallow the tractor, loader, and backhoe cost all in one shot. We need to put in french drains and some serious drywells because the backyard is a swamp when it rains. The tractor and attachments should pay for most of themselves just with all that work. Then we are looking at a 40x40 addition to the house that needs to be excavated slightly. More money in the bank.
> 
> Thing is, I already went with a ZTR for mowing. Getting ready to order a bench grinder for the main reason of sharpening the blades on the ZTR. Sharpen the blades a couple of times and the grinder will have paid for itself. I ran the bench grinder and a workbench by my wife this morning and she didn't even ask "How much?".


 

Fabs, I used to sell the damn things so I have a couple pointers for ya.

If you want a backhoe, get it when you purchase the tractor if at all possible. They are not cheap attachments and implements purchased with the machine qualify for the same finance incentives that the rest of the machine does. I know you might be planning to pay cash but John Deere Credit usually has some decent short-term finance plans available that involve very low or no interest. If you plan to purchase your implements over a 1-2 year period anyways, you'll typically save very little by paying cash out-of-pocket vs a 6, 12, or 24 month no interest finance plan.

Think the backhoe purchase through carefully. Most buy one with 2 or 3 different projects in mind and then the 'hoe rarely gets used if ever.  Even though nothing boosts resale value like a backhoe, they are $7-$9K dollar investments. That equates to more than a few weekend rentals of a mini-excavator that will dig circles around (and under!) the 'hoe and you do not have to store it. Think of all the other 3pt hitch/loader gear you could have with that money. (Chipper, log grapples, pallet forks, brush/grapple buckets, etc) Hell, you could go for a cab tractor (Heat, AC, Radio, 'nuff said!), rent the excavator for the weekend to do the back yard, and still come out way ahead.


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Fabs, I used to sell the damn things so I have a couple pointers for ya.
> 
> If you want a backhoe, get it when you purchase the tractor if at all possible. They are not cheap attachments and implements purchased with the machine qualify for the same finance incentives that the rest of the machine does. I know you might be planning to pay cash but John Deere Credit usually has some decent short-term finance plans available that involve very low or no interest. If you plan to purchase your implements over a 1-2 year period anyways, you'll typically save very little by paying cash out-of-pocket vs a 6, 12, or 24 month no interest finance plan.
> 
> Think the backhoe purchase through carefully. Most buy one with 2 or 3 different projects in mind and then the 'hoe rarely gets used if ever. Even though nothing boosts resale value like a backhoe, they are $7-$9K dollar investments. That equates to more than a few weekend rentals of a mini-excavator that will dig circles around (and under!) the 'hoe and you do not have to store it. Think of all the other 3pt hitch/loader gear you could have with that money. (Chipper, log grapples, pallet forks, brush/grapple buckets, etc) Hell, you could go for a cab tractor (Heat, AC, Radio, 'nuff said!), rent the excavator for the weekend to do the back yard, and still come out way ahead.


 
Yeah, we are planning to pay cash. That is why the damn thing isn't already sitting in the yard. I hate debt. Also want to have a stand alone garage built before I get the tractor so I have somewhere to keep it. Yep, the backhoe is around $8k. Thing is, the project is not going to be a weekend project. I need to put french drains around 3 sides of the house. Then, I need to set up the drywells. Then, I am thinking about putting in a small pond where the storm water drains into the backyard. Then, I am thinking about stepping down a hill with pavers and planting flowers all around it. Then I am going to rip out the 200 foot long driveway and put in a cement pad at the top and in front of the garage with pavers everywhere else. Then I am going to rip out the cement patio out back and put in pavers with a firepit and outdoor kitchen. Then, I am going to buy a farm at some point here. I can see a ton of work for the backhoe over many summers. I'll have to take a look at what an excavator would cost to rent, but from what I have seen at the rental places I would rather buy the backhoe and then sell it if I decide I don't need it anymore. Guessing I would still come out ahead if I did that.

Also thought about getting a cab on it, but then thought twice about it because it would make it harder to use in the woods. Bad enough getting that size tractor into the woods as it is. It would be even harder with a cab.


----------



## MasterMech (Mar 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, we are planning to pay cash. That is why the damn thing isn't already sitting in the yard. I hate debt. Also want to have a stand alone garage built before I get the tractor so I have somewhere to keep it. Yep, the backhoe is around $8k. Thing is, the project is not going to be a weekend project. I need to put french drains around 3 sides of the house. Then, I need to set up the drywells. Then, I am thinking about putting in a small pond where the storm water drains into the backyard. Then, I am thinking about stepping down a hill with pavers and planting flowers all around it. Then I am going to rip out the 200 foot long driveway and put in a cement pad at the top and in front of the garage with pavers everywhere else. Then I am going to rip out the cement patio out back and put in pavers with a firepit and outdoor kitchen. Then, I am going to buy a farm at some point here. I can see a ton of work for the backhoe over many summers. I'll have to take a look at what an excavator would cost to rent, but from what I have seen at the rental places I would rather buy the backhoe and then sell it if I decide I don't need it anymore. Guessing I would still come out ahead if I did that.
> 
> Also thought about getting a cab on it, but then thought twice about it because it would make it harder to use in the woods. Bad enough getting that size tractor into the woods as it is. It would be even harder with a cab.


 
Ok, I fold - You got work for that 'hoe to be doin.


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Ok, I fold - You got work for that 'hoe to be doin.


 
Just want you to know that I always appreciate people that make me think about stuff, even if I have already thought about it quite a lot. Never know when somebody is going to toss out an angle I have not thought about and nobody knows everything I have already thought about. Always good to hear from others and your advice is much appreciated.


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## DexterDay (Mar 27, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> when i bought "our'' JD2320 she said you don't need that loader ,you can get it sometime later .All we really need is the mower.
> 
> she now understands the error of her ways .That bucket has been used & used &used, she now is also a total tool geek(she loves good knives)
> 
> ...



No. I didnt edit anything. Member Jack Fate above made the comment 
, but the "quote" was messed up and appeared as if I wrote it. 

I was looking at tractors w/ FEL's last Summer but settled on a Dixie Chopper Excalibur 3374 (Worlds Fastest lawn mower  

I could use the FEL, but at the end of the day, I wouldn't be able to bear sitting on it for 5 hrs cuttim grass (I was gonna get a 72" finish deck). The Dixie takes about an hour to cut the 4 acres (have a little over 7). Maybe in a couple more years I will revisit the idea of a SCT. 

(I looked hard at the ZatR, but in the end. The Dixie won my heart )


----------



## Jack Fate (Mar 27, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> Bikes, dogs with some border collie genes, wives with a quick temper, what's not to like? ... only yours seems to prefer beer while mine prefers the aroma of a fine single malt...the nosey dog that is.


 

funny you say single malt been looking to try some.$$$$ even more than my fancy beer.Don't know where to start


and of course

Cheers


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> No. I didnt edit anything. Member Jack Fate above made the comment
> , but the "quote" was messed up and appeared as if I wrote it.
> 
> I was looking at tractors w/ FEL's last Summer but settled on a Dixie Chopper Excalibur 3374 (Worlds Fastest lawn mower
> ...


 
At 6 acres an hour, I too would have gone with the Dixie. Had no idea they even existed. It takes me almost an hour to cut my 2 acres with the ZTR445 Thankfully, I only have 2 acres. Been using the mower to tow stuff too, but am guessing that the Dixie could do that too.


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## DexterDay (Mar 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> At 6 acres an hour, I too would have gone with the Dixie. Had no idea they even existed. It takes me almost an hour to cut my 2 acres with the ZTR445 Thankfully, I only have 2 acres. Been using the mower to tow stuff too, but am guessing that the Dixie could do that too.



Its definitely a nice machine. 

I think the brochure said something like 8 acres an hour (flat ground, no obstacles, professional driver ) and could do a football field in 5 minutes. 

My last mower was a 54" Cub Cadet Zero Turn w/ 24 HP Kohler. It took about 3 hours to cut the same 4 acres. With a 20" wider deck and double the speed, it takes 66% less time now. The deck has 6 blades on it. 2 on each jackshaft. One is the standard blade, the other is called a Twist Blade. For the price (starts around $12-$13k) they are well worth it. IMO


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

OK, since we're talking blades and mowers - I'll throw this in. Not trying to get into a brand discussion here...I've ran them all and they all have their pro's and con's.

When I bought my house a few years back I had a box store riding "tractor"...and I use that term very loosely. It worked fine at the old house's 3/4 acre yard. New place has 3 acres of yard and I figured, if I really hustled, I could mow the 3 acres in about 4-5 hours. That wasn't going to cut it (bad pun alert). As luck would have it we qualified for the "upgrade home-buyer" credit they had going a few years ago and I dropped all that money on a commercial ZTR. I am now able to mow my yard in just under an hour...so ~4 times as fast. I put about 80 hours on the mower the year before last (last year only 20 because of the wicked drought) so I figure that purchase saved me at least 200 hours of mower seat time in one year. Not a bad investment....especially when I'll be mowing this yard for the next umpteen years. I wasn't willing to give up every Saturday AM into perpetuity mowing grass, nor did I want to give up my yard space for the kids to romp around in.

I used to mow commercially and probably have upwards of 3,000 hours of seat time on a (not including mowing my own yard and my parent's yard growing up). With all that time I've sharpened a LOT of mower blades. A bench grinder is not my weapon of choice. I prefer to use a heavy duty angle grinder with the mower blade mounted in a vise. This is *100% personal preference* but I can put a better edge and angle on a blade free-handing it. Maybe I'm just weird like that, but wanted to throw it out there.

That being said, every respectable shop should have a bench grinder. I have a WW2 era monster that takes two men and a boy to lift up to the bench. I'm the third generation to use it and I have no doubt I'll hand it down to one of my boys someday.

Oh, and the acres per hour "metrics" are a complete hoax. Unless you plant grass on an airport runway...you aren't getting 6 acres per hour. Just sayin'.  They are pretty good at making comparisons for different speeds and deck sizes though.

Anyway, to bring it back around to the original topic. Nope, didn't need a high $ commercial mower. Yup, some of the best money I ever spent.


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## Jack Fate (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Its definitely a nice machine.
> 
> I think the brochure said something like 8 acres an hour (flat ground, no obstacles, professional driver ) and could do a football field in 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 














fine looking piece of equipment you got there, and if it did only half as much as claimed would be remarkable

5 min football field that sucker must fly ,actually have a friend that has one but I never saw it

takes me almost 3 hr to do 5-6 wooded acres>takes wife 5-6


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Its definitely a nice machine.
> 
> I think the brochure said something like 8 acres an hour (flat ground, no obstacles, professional driver ) and could do a football field in 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 
Too clean...why am I surprised?


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

Dex,

How do you like those Focuses? We have a 2010 SES in red with a manual trans and we really like it. Taught my wife to drive stick on it since it is mainly her car. Boy has this thread drifted. lol


----------



## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> OK, since we're talking blades and mowers - I'll throw this in. Not trying to get into a brand discussion here...I've ran them all and they all have their pro's and con's.
> 
> When I bought my house a few years back I had a box store riding "tractor"...and I use that term very loosely. It worked fine at the old house's 3/4 acre yard. New place has 3 acres of yard and I figured, if I really hustled, I could mow the 3 acres in about 4-5 hours. That wasn't going to cut it (bad pun alert). As luck would have it we qualified for the "upgrade home-buyer" credit they had going a few years ago and I dropped all that money on a commercial ZTR. I am now able to mow my yard in just under an hour...so ~4 times as fast. I put about 80 hours on the mower the year before last (last year only 20 because of the wicked drought) so I figure that purchase saved me at least 200 hours of mower seat time in one year. Not a bad investment....especially when I'll be mowing this yard for the next umpteen years. I wasn't willing to give up every Saturday AM into perpetuity mowing grass, nor did I want to give up my yard space for the kids to romp around in.
> 
> ...


 
Other than a washer and dryer that were not in the house when we bought it (i.e., it was a foreclosure), the next thing that was ordered was the ZTR. I knew before we even bought this house that I did NOT want to mow grass all weekend. Was looking at mowers and tractors years before we even bought this house while we were "just looking".

Don't have an angle grinder yet, but could probably use my Dremel with the same process. Bought the bench grinder because it is something I have wanted. Going to give the blades a go with the bench grinder and see how it goes. If it is a PITA, I will try the Dremel. If that is a PITA, I will buy an angle grinder and give that a shot.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Its definitely a nice machine.
> 
> I think the brochure said something like 8 acres an hour (flat ground, no obstacles, professional driver ) and could do a football field in 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


 

I've got an exmark lazer z which also dramatically cut my mowing time. Only minor complaint is the lack of traction on the hills when the grass is a little wet. Looks like the tires on yours would give better traction.

Mine has nice cup holders. But they didn't have an optional beverage cooler!


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## Jack Fate (Mar 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> OK, since we're talking blades and mowers - I'll throw this in. Not trying to get into a brand discussion here...I've ran them all and they all have their pro's and con's.
> 
> When I bought my house a few years back I had a box store riding "tractor"...and I use that term very loosely. It worked fine at the old house's 3/4 acre yard. New place has 3 acres of yard and I figured, if I really hustled, I could mow the 3 acres in about 4-5 hours. That wasn't going to cut it (bad pun alert). As luck would have it we qualified for the "upgrade home-buyer" credit they had going a few years ago and I dropped all that money on a commercial ZTR. I am now able to mow my yard in just under an hour...so ~4 times as fast. I put about 80 hours on the mower the year before last (last year only 20 because of the wicked drought) so I figure that purchase saved me at least 200 hours of mower seat time in one year. Not a bad investment....especially when I'll be mowing this yard for the next umpteen years. I wasn't willing to give up every Saturday AM into perpetuity mowing grass, nor did I want to give up my yard space for the kids to romp around in.
> 
> ...


 



I use a metabo with a flap wheel for blade sharping so we're sorta in the same camp.

before that took them to work & used a very old sharping machine ,That upper management later found to be unsafe,and they couldn't figure how to guard it so they had it thrown in the scrap tank that was 3yrs ago and I'm still ticked


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Other than a washer and dryer that were not in the house when we bought it (i.e., it was a foreclosure), the next thing that was ordered was the ZTR. I knew before we even bought this house that I did NOT want to mow grass all weekend. Was looking at mowers and tractors years before we even bought this house while we were "just looking".
> 
> Don't have an angle grinder yet, but could probably use my Dremel with the same process. Bought the bench grinder because it is something I have wanted. Going to give the blades a go with the bench grinder and see how it goes. If it is a PITA, I will try the Dremel. If that is a PITA, I will buy an angle grinder and give that a shot.


 

Get yourself a tormek -- you'll have the sharpest lawnmower blades in town.  And it's pretty handy for kitchen knives.


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## DexterDay (Mar 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> Too clean...why am I surprised?



That pic was after a fresh wash and it was only a couple months old. I went from my 52" Craftsman rider (5 hrs or so) to the Cub Cadet 54" Zero turn (3 hrs), to the Dixie 74" deck (1 hr). Notice my wifes car is clean (washed it also), while my car stays dirty.  

Its "rated" at 6-8 acres an hour. I can do all 4 in an hour and I have numerous obstacles (trees, garden, pond, garage, barn, shed, flower islands, etc). So flat land. It could do.6 all day long, no doubt....  Says it all right on the back "Worlds Fastest lawn mower"  

That said. Any commercial unit is nice and FAST! My buddies Hustler is a bad @ss machine! I almost went with a Grass Hopper,  (my next door neighbor has one) but I got a good deal on the Dixie and any parts in the future. Compared to a rider, the time saved is astounding.


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Other than a washer and dryer that were not in the house when we bought it (i.e., it was a foreclosure), the next thing that was ordered was the ZTR. I knew before we even bought this house that I did NOT want to mow grass all weekend. Was looking at mowers and tractors years before we even bought this house while we were "just looking".
> 
> Don't have an angle grinder yet, but could probably use my Dremel with the same process. Bought the bench grinder because it is something I have wanted. Going to give the blades a go with the bench grinder and see how it goes. If it is a PITA, I will try the Dremel. If that is a PITA, I will buy an angle grinder and give that a shot.


 
A Dremel would fail miserably on my 1/4" thick high carbon blades.  I wouldn't hold out much hope, but worth a shot.


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## DexterDay (Mar 27, 2013)

I





fabsroman said:


> Dex,
> 
> How do you like those Focuses? We have a 2010 SES in red with a manual trans and we really like it. Taught my wife to drive stick on it since it is mainly her car. Boy has this thread drifted. lol



I commute about 60 miles (one way) to work and i get about 34-36 mpg using all Royal Purple synthetics (trans, power steering, oil, etc).  They are 2011 (bought both same day) Both are SES w/ sync. Had i known they were gonna redesign the body, I would have waited. But its a good car and gets the job done.


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> That pic was after a fresh wash and it was only a couple months old. I went from my 52" Craftsman rider (5 hrs or so) to the Cub Cadet 54" Zero turn (3 hrs), to the Dixie 74" deck (1 hr). Notice my wifes car is clean (washed it also), while my car stays dirty.
> 
> Its "rated" at 6-8 acres an hour. I can do all 4 in an hour and I have numerous obstacles (trees, garden, pond, garage, barn, shed, flower islands, etc). So flat land. It could do.6 all day long, no doubt.... Says it all right on the back "Worlds Fastest lawn mower"
> 
> ...


 
We had a couple 72" Dixies'...one gas and one diesel and they could knock out flat areas in no time.  My yard is "flat" but it is far from "even" so I decided to go with a 60"...I also have a few tight areas that 72" is too large for.  

I have a Bad Boy.  I know they aren't exactly name brand machines, but they are well built with some quality components (Parker, Hydrogear, Kawasaki).  So far, all good.


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Get yourself a tormek -- you'll have the sharpest lawnmower blades in town. And it's pretty handy for kitchen knives.


 
lol - I saw that Tormek grinder on the Sears website and thought it was a tape dispenser. Did not even bother to click on it. That thing looks awesome for sharpening blades, knives, etc. If I remember correctly, it was a little pricey though. Going to add it to my wish list.


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

I can buy a LOT of blades for the price of a Tormek.  That's one of those thing that, while it looks top of the line and I would use it, I would rather not have that much $ tied up in a tool.


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## fabsroman (Mar 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> I can buy a LOT of blades for the price of a Tormek. That's one of those thing that, while it looks top of the line and I would use it, I would rather not have that much $ tied up in a tool.


 
Yeah, $470 for the 8" stone and $800 for the 10" stone. Me, I am debating buying one after next tax season. Would probably go with the 8" stone. Don't know why I would ever need the 10" one.

I think blades for my mower are around $80 a set, so it would take 8 sets of blades before the Tormek would pay for itself. I can probably find a lot of other things to sharpen though. It would be nice for the hatchets and ax, not to mention wood chisels, etc.


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## lukem (Mar 27, 2013)

I'll stick with my $14.99 HF angle grinder and get my money back on 1/2 of the first blade.


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## gmule (Mar 27, 2013)

To me tools are money. Every time I fix something  I am paying myself back for the purchase. 
There are a few tools that I think quality matters. Multi meters, torque wrenches, drill motors, measuring equipment like calipers and dial indicators and tools that I am likely to use at least once a week. A pro level saw will save your body and time.
 If I can save some cash by buying a tool that is made for different companies I can go that route too. I'll use my Muryama / Dolmar/ Makita saw as an example.


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## DexterDay (Mar 27, 2013)

lukem said:


> We had a couple 72" Dixies'...one gas and one diesel and they could knock out flat areas in no time.  My yard is "flat" but it is far from "even" so I decided to go with a 60"...I also have a few tight areas that 72" is too large for.
> 
> I have a Bad Boy.  I know they aren't exactly name brand machines, but they are well built with some quality components (Parker, Hydrogear, Kawasaki).  So far, all good.



My Dixie Dealer also sells Bad Boys and Ferris. All of them are very nice machines  

If i got the Bad Boy,  I would have to get the Spoiler for the back  It just looks sweet with it on there.


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## mikefrommaine (Mar 27, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, $470 for the 8" stone and $800 for the 10" stone. Me, I am debating buying one after next tax season. Would probably go with the 8" stone. Don't know why I would ever need the 10" one.
> 
> I think blades for my mower are around $80 a set, so it would take 8 sets of blades before the Tormek would pay for itself. I can probably find a lot of other things to sharpen though. It would be nice for the hatchets and ax, not to mention wood chisels, etc.


 

I have the t-7. Prices have gone up a bit since I bought. But it is what I consider a lifetime tool. And something my son will probably have for his lifetime as well. There are cheaper ways to put a good edge on a blade. But for someone that doesn't have a lot of time or patience to learn hand sharpening the tormek is the way to go.  I don't really need to be able to slice paper with my hatchet. But I can now 

I work with some hacks that use a belt sander to sharpen a chisel. Should have seen them when I showed them what a sharp chisel can do.  And as a bonus it's a crossover tool -- the wife is very happy with sharp knives. I think grizzly sells one now that is basically a copy of the tormek but the reviews haven't been great. And the quality of the stone is questionable.


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## MasterMech (Mar 27, 2013)

$700+ blade grinders seem like overkill but I love mine (would have to go look again to remember the name.... ) and it saves me a load of time, which for me, is money.  But if it's not handy, the vise/angle grinder would be my next choice.  I can do nice work with that setup. 

Dex, spoiler, really?


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 28, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> funny you say single malt been looking to try some.$$$$ even more than my fancy beer.Don't know where to start
> 
> 
> and of course
> ...


I don't partake anywhere near as much as I used to, so I am out of touch with what's good right now, but all of the following can be counted on as good representative drams.

Well for a place to start it's hard to go wrong with *Macallan 12*, and branch out from there. It's tons of quality and rich flavor of whiskey aged in old sherry casks, for the buck it tastes like something way more expensive than it is— way beyond the vapid Glenfiddichs and and their ilk.

Macallan also tends to stay pretty consistent from year to year. 

The regular original* Glenmorangie* is another good starting point and good value. *Clynelish 14* is another favorite that's great value, but a little hard to find. I liked *Highland Park* a lot (and Orkeny whisky), but it's gotten really expensive recently and the 12 yr-old that used to be good value was all sold out and it's now into vintages I haven't tasted, so could not say.

*Oban* is another great tasting single malt, but for some reason it's the only one that gives me headaches with even a small amount. Pity cos I liked that one a lot.

My personal favorite is *Royal Lochnagar,* but dadgum difficult to find on this side of the pond.

These whiskies are much like good quality saws Dolmar, Husky, Jonsered, Stihl — _but the saws and whisky should never *ever* be mixed, of course._


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 29, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Just like bikes, you need a backup for the backup's backup to the backup. Then you need your main ride. I even have backup frames and components. Have to be able to ride when I want to.


 
Looks like a mighty fine stable of horses there, just waiting for their turn.


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## fabsroman (Mar 29, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> Looks like a mighty fine stable of horses there, just waiting for their turn.


 
Thanks. Just waiting till April 16th so I can start riding them again and start running the saws too. This work stuff is for the birds.


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## Jack Fate (Mar 29, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> I don't partake anywhere near as much as I used to, so I am out of touch with what's good right now, but all of the following can be counted on as good representative drams.
> 
> Well for a place to start it's hard to go wrong with *Macallan 12*, and branch out from there. It's tons of quality and rich flavor of whiskey aged in old sherry casks, for the buck it tastes like something way more expensive than it is— way beyond the vapid Glenfiddichs and and their ilk.
> 
> ...


 


Thanks was going in the Glenfiddichs 12 direction & still can do a shot at a place I found. But will seek out your recommends for bottle

Thank you & yes drinkin' & saws don't mix

Stackin' might tho


----------



## Jack Fate (Mar 29, 2013)




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## Jack Fate (Mar 29, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> View attachment 98195


 couldn't write anything with pic

My favorite of the last 50 yrs  of what I've owned

Phil Wood hubs & BB ,magura hyd rim brakes  & some japan co that I use to likes xtr drive line, rims Australia & yes Virginia an a American frame

nitto racks (japan) Berthude bags( France) may be misspelled & BAR END SHIFFTERS .

THEY DON'T MAK'EM LIKE THIS ANY MORE

Cheers

Does anyone understand this ?

And just noticed this is not Inglenook

blaming it on fabsroman


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## fabsroman (Mar 30, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> couldn't write anything with pic
> 
> My favorite of the last 50 yrs of what I've owned
> 
> ...


 
lol - I understand it.

Colnago Cristallo - pretty much 100% Italian except the DT-Swiss spokes, Look French pedals, and the Tufo tires.




Mino Denti - 100% Italian except the Look French pedals, chain, rear Suntour freewheel, and DT Swiss spokes. The saddle has since been changed for a Fizik.




C50 - again pretty much 100% Italian except the Look French pedals, DT- Swiss spokes, tires, Zipp rims made in America, ZEro-G brakes made in America, and hubs made in Germany. With that said, I have some Italian components waiting to be built into a wheelset. The stem has also been cut down since this pic.


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## Pallet Pete (Mar 30, 2013)

Hills Hoard said:


> I replied to "the wine guys" thread on cheap chainsaws but thought i'd start another topic for discussion.
> 
> Has anyone else had luck/success or a positive experience with cheaper gear...
> 
> ...


I have had a few cheap saws over the years and to be honest if you take care of them they will last. My 46cc poulan was the last chepo and it held up for a long time. It cost 129 bucks and went for almost five years before I bought a used stihl from Amateur Cutter on the forum. A good buddy took the old poulan and fixed it up again and its still cutting albeit slowly these days. I put that poulan through hell and back too ! It was never meant to take the cut time I gave it. It's all about the up keep of equtment.

Pete


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## fabsroman (Mar 30, 2013)

Pallet Pete said:


> I have had a few cheap saws over the years and to be honest if you take care of them they will last. My 46cc poulan was the last chepo and it held up for a long time. It cost 129 bucks and went for almost five years before I bought a used stihl from Amateur Cutter on the forum. A good buddy took the old poulan and fixed it up again and its still cutting albeit slowly these days. I put that poulan through hell and back too ! It was never meant to take the cut time I gave it. It's all about the up keep of equtment.
> 
> Pete


 
Yeah, upkeep matters, but I think you just proved that the lower end saws just do not do what the upper end ones do, and definitely not as nicely/smoothly. You had the saw for 5 years before it had to be "fixed up". If I have to "fix up" my MS261 or MS660 in 5 years and it is cutting a lot slower than it used to, that will be a travesty.

My dad used a couple McCullochs for around 10 years, but they were nowhere near as nice to cut with as my current saws. My dad is currently using a 16" Craftsman and after using my saws all he does is continue to look at the Stihl lineup in the ads and at the dealer. Finally got him to tell me what he would like and it is a MS251. Going to get that for him for his birthday. Granted, it isn't a MS261, but it will do just fine for his needs. It will be pleasant to use it AND it will pretty much last him forever.


----------



## Pallet Pete (Mar 30, 2013)

fabsroman said:


> Yeah, upkeep matters, but I think you just proved that the lower end saws just do not do what the upper end ones do, and definitely not as nicely/smoothly. You had the saw for 5 years before it had to be "fixed up". If I have to "fix up" my MS261 or MS660 in 5 years and it is cutting a lot slower than it used to, that will be a travesty.
> 
> My dad used a couple McCullochs for around 10 years, but they were nowhere near as nice to cut with as my current saws. My dad is currently using a 16" Craftsman and after using my saws all he does is continue to look at the Stihl lineup in the ads and at the dealer. Finally got him to tell me what he would like and it is a MS251. Going to get that for him for his birthday. Granted, it isn't a MS261, but it will do just fine for his needs. It will be pleasant to use it AND it will pretty much last him forever.



I can understand the attraction to a high end saw. I am by no means a Stihl fanatic however I do for the most art like my super 036. My actual love affair is and so far has remained Echo they are some bad mothers. My CS-310 has only needed an oil filter in the last 6 years and runs like the day it was new. I like the feel of Echo in my hands too. All that said the Poulan cut for 2 homes for 4 of those years I was not kidding when I said I put it through hell. For $129 and its still runs it was worth every penny to me. Weather I spend $129 every 5 years or $500 every 15 the price is close to the same. Its a matter of perspective I suppose ! If your cutting 3 cord a year for your home its really not necessary to have a fancy saw ( it is nice though ! ) Personally I like a good powerful saw in my hands but if money is a problem at the time then cheapo it is. 

Pete


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## fabsroman (Mar 30, 2013)

Pallet Pete said:


> I can understand the attraction to a high end saw. I am by no means a Stihl fanatic however I do for the most art like my super 036. My actual love affair is and so far has remained Echo they are some bad mothers. My CS-310 has only needed an oil filter in the last 6 years and runs like the day it was new. I like the feel of Echo in my hands too. All that said the Poulan cut for 2 homes for 4 of those years I was not kidding when I said I put it through hell. For $129 and its still runs it was worth every penny to me. Weather I spend $129 every 5 years or $500 every 15 the price is close to the same. Its a matter of perspective I suppose ! If your cutting 3 cord a year for your home its really not necessary to have a fancy saw ( it is nice though ! ) Personally I like a good powerful saw in my hands but if money is a problem at the time then cheapo it is.
> 
> Pete


 
No need to have a chainsaw at all for 3 cords. Do it like Lincoln, with an ax. You could also use a one man saw. Saw that on a Stihl timbersports event the other day.

The point I am trying to make is that I would rather cut with a pro level saw that last 15+ years than a disposable $150 saw that just SUCKS compared to the pro saw. If the two were to have the same life span, then I would have to think twice about the disposable saw at 1/3 the cost. My experience has been that my dad goes through cheap saws left and right and spends more time resolving issues with them toward the end of their useful life than he does cutting wood. The headache just isn't worth it for me. I have also run the MS290, which has the same power as my MS261 but weighs about 2 pounds more, is bulkier, and feels like a brick. Yeah,. I am happy I spent the extra $170 for my MS261 over the MS290 even if both would last the same number of years and cut the same amount of wood.


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## OldLumberKid (Mar 31, 2013)

Jack Fate said:


> couldn't write anything with pic
> 
> My favorite of the last 50 yrs of what I've owned
> 
> ...


 
Nice tandem — I have no idea if Cannondale makes, but you can still get all the artisan quality panniers, and I'm pretty sure Magura is still making great hydraulics. 

I built my latest road bike in the basement from Campy, plus a frame and parts I'd spec'd out 
and the wheels Custom DT Swiss 1.1 by Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos. Phil Wood was not in the budget, Garcia's Speedcific hubs are good.

I'm not sure whose chain I like better Campagnolo Chorus or *Stihl* — they both look good lubed up, but the Stihl chain stays a lot cleaner longer that's for sure. One cuts wood, and I guess on a bike it's gonna make short work of your calves 

P.S. I'm gonna experiment — on an MTB with  3.5 parts OMS and 1 part *Stihl* bar oil — believe it or not it's secret sauce for some. The Road bike, though, gets Park CL-1.



FRAME/FORK
Frame: Leader 780-R 56cm; UAL Aluminum/Carbon Seatstay
Fork: Easton EC90 SLX CNT Carbon
Headset: Cane Creek IS series
Seatpost/Collar: Leader Bike*
Forkplug/Headset Cap: Leader Bike Carbon expanding plug.
Cable adjusters: Leader Bike

DRIVETRAIN
Crank: Campagnolo 2008 Compact Carbon Centaur 54-30, 165 mm
Cassette: Campagnolo Centaur 13-29
Shifters: Campagnolo 2007 Chorus 
Chain: Campagnolo Chorus
BB: Campagnolo Record  
Rear Derailleur: Campagnolo 2008 Centaur Medium 
Front Der: Campagnolo 2008 Centaur
Cable guide under frame: Leader (Campy provided not used)
Cables/housings: Campagnolo
Pedals: Crank Bros Quattro / Crank Bros 5050* 

WHEELS
DT Swiss 1.1 Rims, 28h front, 32h rear / Speedcific Campagnolo compat. Hubs (built by Mike Garcia--Odds and Endos)
Rear: 32-hole AE15/14 Black Brass nipples non-rive side/Sliver Brass on drive side
Front: 28-hole AE15 Aluminum nipples
Tires: Serfas Seca RS Folding 23mm
Tubes: Specialized (looked heavy duty long stem)

COCKPIT
Handlebar: FSA Wing Pro Aluminum (Short & Shallow)
Tape/wrap: Aztec/Delta Vibe Wrap* 
Stem: Bontrager Race Lite 40 degree 4 bolt (for herniated neck discs C5-6-7)
Saddle: Koobi Enduro PRS
Mirror: for herniated neck discs C5-6-7 rear view = The Italian Road Bike Mirror
Waterbottle cage: Whatever was lying around in the MTB bag.

* Crank Bros 5050 pedals used during ongoing test riding and adjustment phase.


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## geoff1969 (Apr 1, 2013)

had a mcculloch 4218 = dead now lasted a few years doing light work but piston is now craped itself , the single ring cracked in 2  and scored the bore / pot .


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## MasterMech (Apr 1, 2013)

OldLumberKid said:


> I guess on a bike it's gonna make short work of your calves


 
That would be a sweet mod for one of you woodburner/cyclist types.  Build a bike chain using chainsaw chain tie-straps and cutter links.  Dull ones of course.


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