# Seton w 130 problems



## maddscot (Nov 19, 2010)

This is my 3rd year with the seton 130. I gotta say, Im not very happy with it. It replaced a small hot air wood furnace that I bought for $1200 new. I used to burn abot 6 to 7 cords of wood (my only heat source) a year. The seton cost approx $8k and now Im burning 14 to 16 cords a year. It is constantly over heating, dumping water all over. I have to let it go out about every 10 days to clean out the ashes as they are above the inlet holes. The fire never goes out like it is supposed to. While I am very discouraged with this I am open to help to fix my problems if anyone else has had these issues. It just seems that I spent a lot of money for a poorly built boiler.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ian


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## Singed Eyebrows (Nov 19, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> This is my 3rd year with the seton 130. I gotta say, Im not very happy with it. It replaced a small hot air wood furnace that I bought for $1200 new. I used to burn abot 6 to 7 cords of wood (my only heat source) a year. The seton cost approx $8k and now Im burning 14 to 16 cords a year. It is constantly over heating, dumping water all over. I have to let it go out about every 10 days to clean out the ashes as they are above the inlet holes. The fire never goes out like it is supposed to. While I am very discouraged with this I am open to help to fix my problems if anyone else has had these issues. It just seems that I spent a lot of money for a poorly built boiler.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Ian


There are a bunch of owners here that have actual experience. What jumps out at me is that you apparently are trying to keep this going nonstop by idling it? Have you looked into storage for this boiler? The others can help better. Good luck, Randy


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 19, 2010)

Welcome aboard Ian! Sorry to hear of your troubles.

You are going to get many questions on the way to a better burn for you. Thanks for your patience  

Where is the Seton?

How does the hot water heat the residence? (W2A HX in existing plenum, etc)

How much pressure in the system and what temp is aquastat set at?

How much over aquastat setting does water temp go?

While we're at it, lets talk cordage. What are you burning and how much? Please indicate whether it's full cord or face cord.

Again, welcome. What made ya wait three years to get this figgered' out? :smirk:


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## Pat53 (Nov 19, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> This is my 3rd year with the seton 130. I gotta say, Im not very happy with it. It replaced a small hot air wood furnace that I bought for $1200 new. I used to burn abot 6 to 7 cords of wood (my only heat source) a year. The seton cost approx $8k and now Im burning 14 to 16 cords a year. It is constantly over heating, dumping water all over. I have to let it go out about every 10 days to clean out the ashes as they are above the inlet holes. The fire never goes out like it is supposed to. While I am very discouraged with this I am open to help to fix my problems if anyone else has had these issues. It just seems that I spent a lot of money for a poorly built boiler.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Ian



If the fire never goes out, then you definitely have a problem with air getting in the unit after the damper closes. You need to check the seal on the damper and the loading door, chances are one, or both, are not sealing tight enough to snuff out the fire. I have a Seton 130 that I built myself (with the help of a great welder ) and it is very tight. Another guy from Alaska just recently had a problem with a new Seton similar to yours and the gasket on the damper was messed up and he had to replace it. It could be other problems, but if the fire won't stop burning, I would check the damper first to make sure it is sealing tight when it closes. Chances are that is what your problem is.

good luck, Pat


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## maddscot (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow. Thanks for all the quick responses. And bear with me here. Im not real good with computers. I wont say how long it took me to figure out how to reply to this post...

First to Randy. I only have a 40 gallon old hot water heater for storage per Fred Seton. A big reason I picked seton over a Tarm. Fred was and still is very adament that it was designed and works best "without storage". Fred designed my radaint heat system so he knew what I had and needed to heat my house.

Now to Pyro Extraordinaire,  Sorry , not sure what W2A HX in existing plenum are. I have radient floor heat. It is I believe a closed loop??? Water comes from boiler to 40 gallon (just for storage) old hot water heater. From there I have a circulator pushing it to my manifold and loops. The water pressure is around 25 lbs. The aquastat is set to come on at 160 and goes off at 180. My second aquastat (dump zone) is set at 200. 

Whats the difference between full chord and face chord? I buy 2 log loads a year approx 8 to 10 chord per load. Its all hard wood and at min of being cut and sitting for 6 months, but more likley 8 to 12 months. 

Now Pat. Im going to guess that you are right about it not being air tight. How do you check that? This is what kills me. I am far from a rich man and this was a hugh and painful expense for me to do this. For that kind of money and the fact that being air tight is vital, it seems this is all pretty basic and should have been done and checked at the manufacture level. These should never have been shipped unless it was preforming the way its supposed to. If I bought it at walmart or the likes for a low cost, then it would be expected.

To answer why it took 3 years, last night was just the straw that broke my back. Over heated for probally the 5th or 6th time this fall, water everywhere and then have to go threw and bled lines again. Ashes probally 8 inches deep since last tuesday when this happened last.

Thanks again
Ian


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## Pat53 (Nov 19, 2010)

Ian, what I did to seal my draft door was to place a nice bead of high temp caulk around the edge where the draft door closes. make sure the metal is nice and clean before you put the bead down. Then put a piece of wax paper over the caulking bead and gently close the draft door and apply some light pressure to squish out any small openings in the caulk. Then leave the draft door closed and let it dry. If its warm, it should only take a day or so to dry. Open the draft door, remove the wax paper and you should have a good seal. I checked mine by putting a big lamp in the fire chamber down by the draft tubes and then seeing if I could see any light around the door when it was closed. Obviuosly you have to do this when its dark and after the stove has cooled, but if you have to re-do the caulking you would have to shut down anyway. 

If the fire won't go out, it is definitely getting air somewhere, and the draft door would be my first place to check. My loading door seals nice and flush, but you should check that too. 
I'm betting that the draft door is your problem, and once fixed your overheat problem will go away.

Pat


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## 2.beans (Nov 19, 2010)

how much chimney do you have? for starters id lower the the draft door aquastat to 175* with a 10* differential and set your dump aquastat at 190. then plumb your  t/p and pressure valves outside to stop the water blowing inside. then ( im no plumber ) id lower the system pressure to 15 psi when the boiler is running at 160*. then go after the air leaks depending on what you have for chimney height/draft.


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## maddscot (Nov 19, 2010)

Pat.
Did you put the caulk on the door itself or on the boiler? Reason I ask is I have very little room back their being close to chimney and that frame that comes off of the boiler just above the draft door. Which would be better/easier, red caulk silicone or those rope gaskets?

2.beans I have approx 30 feet of 8 inch metal insert in my brick chimney. I have no idea what my draft is. I was thinking of a draft inducer since it smokes so badly when I open the door but Fred said it wasnt needed. To be clear, set the aquastat to close draft door at 175 degrees. Meaning it would open at 155? What do you mean by 10 degree differential?

Again, I want to thank you guys for the quick responses and the help. I really appreciate it

Cheers
Ian


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## 2.beans (Nov 19, 2010)

draft door shut at 175* and open back up at 165*. once you get a handle on the boiler you can adjust it up. im think that you have too much draft with 30 feet of chimney. smoke out the door is normal, get used to it. do you have anyway to check draft or exhaust temp? im guessing that your going to have to put in an adjustable damper in the exhaust pipe. there less than 10 bucks at a hardware store.


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## maddscot (Nov 19, 2010)

Never thought about having to much draft. I see how to lower the temp on the aquastat but not sure how to change the differential. I dont have any way to check draft but I think my neighbor has one of those magnet thermastat that I could go borrow. I could get that after dinner and get back to you about the temps. What and where can I get something to check the draft?


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## Pat53 (Nov 19, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> Pat.
> Did you put the caulk on the door itself or on the boiler? Reason I ask is I have very little room back their being close to chimney and that frame that comes off of the boiler just above the draft door. Which would be better/easier, red caulk silicone or those rope gaskets?
> 
> 2.beans I have approx 30 feet of 8 inch metal insert in my brick chimney. I have no idea what my draft is. I was thinking of a draft inducer since it smokes so badly when I open the door but Fred said it wasnt needed. To be clear, set the aquastat to close draft door at 175 degrees. Meaning it would open at 155? What do you mean by 10 degree differential?
> ...



Ian, I put the red silicon caulk on the boiler, not the door. Not sure if it would make any difference, thats where they reccomended it tho. I wouldn't use the rope stuff, i've seen it stick and pull off on doors before.

yeah, 30 feet of draft is WAY too much. You only 16-18 feet, 20 feet max. Do you know what your stack temps are when burning?
Now, if you do have a poor seal on your draft door, and you have 30 feet of chimney, the boiler is sucking in air faster than with a shorter chimney which of course means a hotter fire, when you want the fire to die down, which is likely why you're overheating. With 30 feet of chimney it may not take much of a leak to suck a lot of air thru some small openings and keep that fire burning. You may even be able to hear the air being sucked in when your trying to idle.  If you can't lower the chimney to reduce the draft, you should be able to adjust the draft door to open less when firing to keep from pulling too much air. But first you need to find out where the air is coming from when the draft door is closed.

Pat


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## Jesse-M (Nov 19, 2010)

2.beans said:
			
		

> how much chimney do you have? for starters id lower the the draft door aquastat to 175* with a 10* differential and set your dump aquastat at 190. then plumb your  t/p and pressure valves outside to stop the water blowing inside. then ( im no plumber ) id lower the system pressure to 15 psi when the boiler is running at 160*. then go after the air leaks depending on what you have for chimney height/draft.



This would be my advise as well. Right now with the temp outside being 40+ day and 30 at night, I have mine set to close at 160* and open at 150*, the dump is set at 185*, As the outside temps get lower, I bump those up. The Setons temp blow off is 210*, if your aquastat is set at 200 this doesn't give enough time to dump the heat...

If you don't have a drain to plumb the blow offs to, at least get them to a 5 gal bucket or something similar.

I've never heard of the small storage setup on a closed system like this so I can't comment much on that....What it boils down to is these units are very simple and you found the right place for help. Get these bugs worked out and you'll be happy with your purchase.


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## 2.beans (Nov 20, 2010)

i wouldnt use the draft door to adjust draft you need to adjust draft on the exhaust side. the draft door should be open straight up. you can have a 100' of chimney and still have your draft set correct with a damper. its easy to do. there is no doubt you have air leaks with your boiler. ive sealed mine up by adding gaskets to the draft door and feed door and sealing around all the panels. but even with an air tight boiler with too much draft you wont get the efficiency.


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## maddscot (Nov 20, 2010)

2.beans said:
			
		

> i wouldnt use the draft door to adjust draft you need to adjust draft on the exhaust side. the draft door should be open straight up. you can have a 100' of chimney and still have your draft set correct with a damper. its easy to do. there is no doubt you have air leaks with your boiler. ive sealed mine up by adding gaskets to the draft door and feed door and sealing around all the panels. but even with an air tight boiler with too much draft you wont get the efficiency.



What did you use to seal up draft door and door and seal the panels with?


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## Jesse-M (Nov 20, 2010)

I used silicone on the draft door around the nipples and panels and flat style rope held in place with silicone on the load door, works well. 

Have you ever taken this thing apart and cleaned the pressure vessel?



> Over heated for probally the 5th or 6th time this fall, water everywhere and then have to go threw and bled lines again.



I know they don't advise it but I keep my fill valve on all the time just in case this happens.


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## 2.beans (Nov 20, 2010)

i used a high temp automotive flat gasket on the draft door, high temp automotive sealant on the panels, and i cut hinges off the boiler and added some round stock and flat rope style gasket on the front door. ill post some pictures tomorrow. if i can find the part number for the gasket material ill post that as well. do you have anyway to measure draft or exhaust temps?


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## 2.beans (Nov 20, 2010)

heres some pictures.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			


























 the number for the gasket that i used on the draft door is 85066 i believe its a FELPRO gasket. it comes in a sheet and you cut it to fit. it cost around 20 dollars.


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## bigburner (Nov 20, 2010)

I don't own one of these, but it looks to me that the 40 gal tank is being used as a buffer tank, because of the small amount of water in the system. If the buffer tank was increased to something in the range of 200 gals or more. that the unit would be able to coast longer and the off cycle time with some air leaks might be an advantage. kind of a low fire setting. I do use an updraft design and I don't ever shut the air off completely. I never have to relight a fire. and the storage buffers the heavy burn times. I use about .05 draft when things are working correctly, my chimney is short but oversize in diameter, this is more of a problem then a tall chimney because it's a lot easier to control excessive draft, then not enough draft. I would add more storage


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## Jroz (Nov 21, 2010)

Hello and welcome..

About cleaning out the ashes,I am never letting mine go out just let it burn down to coals. For the most part i wear a carhart and a pair of leather glove to protect from heat and a standard flat shovel to remove ash while still hot. I would guess every 10 days im getting a metal 5 gallon bucket of ash. 
Blowing out the intake holes is easy with a bit of compressed air or a leaf blower from the back of the stove. use caution with this there may be a hot coal coming back if your forcing to much air in.

Another thing you should look into is return temp. If your return water temp is to low your sheet meta lskin will be damaged very fast. 

I beleive when we get these monsters runnning properly they are incredible. how ever there is a huge learning curve with them and all seton/greenwood/greenfire owners will hate there $%#^&$@ stove several times in the first year.

Josh


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## Jesse-M (Nov 21, 2010)

Jroz...  whats your theory here?


> Another thing you should look into is return temp. If your return water temp is to low your sheet meta lskin will be damaged very fast


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## Jroz (Nov 21, 2010)

first off I need to mension im no pro..
That said from what I am learing return water temp below 140* will create corrosive condensation. I burned quarter size holes in my skins in 5 months, as far as I can tell it was from the return temp being to low.

Josh


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## 2.beans (Nov 21, 2010)

return temp to skin failure?


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## Pat53 (Nov 21, 2010)

[quote author="Jroz" date="1290368421"]first off I need to mension im no pro..
That said from what I am learing return water temp below 140* will create corrosive condensation. I burned quarter size holes in my skins in 5 months, as far as I can tell it was from the return temp being to low.

Josh[/quote

Hmm, never heard of that before. I know some people with these units are having problems with the galvanized skins rusting thru, but I believe most of the problem is from the moisture getting behind the insulation. That moisture is being released from the wood during the combustion process I would think?

Pat


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## maddscot (Nov 22, 2010)

Sorry guys. Hockey season has started and with 3 boys, all on different teams, Weekends are busy with at least 6 games a weekend. 

Josh, I have no idea what my return water temp is. But my skins look as good as they did new. However. I let the fire go out today to try some things. I empted out the ashes, just over 2 five gallon pails in 10 days. This is during the fall when the days are still in the forties and Im only filling with wood once a day. This is just a HUGE inconvience.

I can see that I have screwed myself already by taking the advice of a wood stove guy and not listening to you guys......... I used rope gasket to seal the front door and the draft door. The smallest I could find was 5/16 and now I can hardly close front door and the draft door wont close at the top because the rope is to thick on the bottom. So with a fire going and burning the chit out of myself, I cut off the rope gasket on the botton of draft door. Now it seals great along the top but has a big gap on the bottom. So my house is currently 46* so I had to let fire burn and maybe let it go out tomorrow. God this is such a pain in the ass. I still dont think after spending $8k I should have to be dealing with all this crap. Anyhow I will buy some red silicone and use that later.

How do I measure my draft? My chimney temp taken approx 12 inches back from the boiler are good but are misleading I think since with my air leaks the fire is alwways burning.


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## Pat53 (Nov 22, 2010)

Well at least now you know why you were overheating. What kind of gasket was on the draft door originally? 

When you re-do the draft door, put on a good 1/2" of red silicone about 1/2" wide also. Disconnect the draft door from the motor and close it manually to flatten out the caulk a bit. make sure to use the wax paper in between. You should get a good tight seal afterwards. 

Your absolutely right, there is no way you should have to be dealing with a boiler that leaks air like a sieve right from the factory. I built mine from the Seton plans and it is sealed up tight as a drum. I'm not sure what to recommend for the loading door. My door closes flush without any gasket material at all. If we could do it, they should be able to do it even better. 

10 gallons of ash in 10 days is definitely a lot of ash. I average about 4 gallons every 10 days in the heart of winter. 

For now, I wouldn't worry about the draft, just get your doors to seal up good and see how the system works, but with 30 feet of chimney you might need to restrict the flow a bit.

good luck and hang in there, once you gets those air leaks sealed it will make a big difference.

Pat


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## sparke (Nov 22, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> How do I measure my draft? My chimney temp taken approx 12 inches back from the boiler are good but are misleading I think since with my air leaks the fire is alwways burning.




Draft is a critical factor for these type units to work correctly.  Borrow a manometer from the dealer where you bought your Seton.  Is he local?  If not check with your local hearth store...


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## maddscot (Nov 22, 2010)

Draft is a critical factor for these type units to work correctly.  Borrow a manometer from the dealer where you bought your Seton.  Is he local?  If not check with your local hearth store...[/quote]

I bought this directly from Fred Seton.. Are monometers expensive?

The draft door never had any gasket on it. But today I applied (quite sloppily Im sorry to say) the red silicone. I also siliconed all along the top skin and around the hot water outlet on top. Now a stupid question, how long will this take to dry? Bear in mind it is close to freezing at night and upper 30's to lower 40's during the day and my only heat source is "out".

I asked this before and it may have been answered but how do you check for air leaks? Ive been using a lighter but thats kinda a pain.

Cheers
Ian


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## 2.beans (Nov 23, 2010)

im sorry your first repair was trying to fix air leaks. adjusting the draft would have been my first. that stuff could take many hours to cure, especially in a cold environment.if you cant get your hands on a manometer buy a 10 dollar meat probe thermometer that goes up over 400 degrees drill a small hole in your exhaust pipe and see where your temps are at. if it pegs the gauge then buy a 10 dollar draft flap install it in the exhaust pipe and remeasure exhaust temps. try to adjust the damper down to 350* with a good hot fire. if you slow the draft down to much you will see where your air leaks are because the smoke will come out of them when the draft door shuts. then fix the air leaks, readjust draft.


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## Pat53 (Nov 23, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> Draft is a critical factor for these type units to work correctly.  Borrow a manometer from the dealer where you bought your Seton.  Is he local?  If not check with your local hearth store...



I bought this directly from Fred Seton.. Are monometers expensive?

The draft door never had any gasket on it. But today I applied (quite sloppily Im sorry to say) the red silicone. I also siliconed all along the top skin and around the hot water outlet on top. Now a stupid question, how long will this take to dry? Bear in mind it is close to freezing at night and upper 30's to lower 40's during the day and my only heat source is "out".

I asked this before and it may have been answered but how do you check for air leaks? Ive been using a lighter but thats kinda a pain.

Cheers
Ian[/quote]

Wow, I can't believe he sold you a boiler with a draft door that had no gasket material on it ! Talk about skimping on an important part. I would try to get some heat on that gasket material to help it dry quicker. At 40F it could days for that stuff to dry. If you have a small electric heater with a fan on it or some other way to enclose the area and keep it heated so the silicone dries faster, I would do that right away.

If you have no other heat source be sure to keep any piping from freezing while your boiler is down.


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## maddscot (Nov 23, 2010)

2.beans said:
			
		

> heres some pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do those gaskets attach to the boiler?


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## 2.beans (Nov 23, 2010)

i used the felpro gasket on the draft door only and used high temp automotive sealant to hold it on. the rope style i used on the feed door is a bigger project.


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## 2.beans (Nov 23, 2010)

Pat53 said:
			
		

> maddscot said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



none of seton boilers have gaskets.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 23, 2010)

Don't want to throw off the OP . . .more of a written thought. . . .

Sounds like Fred Seton doesn't think the doors need gaskets.
GW came with no gaskets.
I run with no gaskets and do not overheat.

Are all you seton guys running a closed system?

Lets face it, the weather has NOT been conducive to optimal burning in these RMND units. I have observed that, the colder it gets, the better the GW does. Right now I am set at 170, attempting to not overload. Still getting 12 hour 'burns'.

Jimbo


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## JMann (Nov 23, 2010)

I would not use the silicone on anything unless you are taking the skins off and using the silicone (with wax paper so it does not stick) to seal it from the inside.  You can also use silicone as a door gasket or air intake gasket (again with wax paper) if you need to.  I've been using it that way for two years now and am very pleased with the results.  If you have leaks around the skins or nipple, I would stick to using stove cement as a temporary solution.  It cures fast and can be applied while the stove is hot.  I had to use it last season for a pesky leak on one of the skins and it worked like a charm until the end of the season.  I then scraped it off and fixed the screw that was stripped off (causing the leak).  Be sure that if you do use the stove cement - use it sparingly!  Otherwise you'll have a hard time getting it off at the end of the season when it's time to clean it.  I really don't think the continuous burning has to do with the gasket (or lack of one).  Lot of people here do not use them at all.  Look at the draft (monometer) and the set aquastat temp.  Could your 130 be over sized?  
I agree with ISeeDeadBTU's statement about the furnace running better when it's really cold.  That's when I really start to enjoy the system.


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## trailhound68 (Nov 24, 2010)

Draft is so important whith these boilers. Like it's been said, determine your draft and exhaust temps. You can't dial it in otherwise. 
I had too much draft w/ a 6" SS flue 24'. Was able to take off a 4' section and add a cap, like Fred says not to. Works fine. 
I average a 5 gallon pail of ash per week when it's cold. The flat shovel is my only tool. If it's not kept clean, it'll suck. You've got to 
keep the air inlets completely open. No gaskets on mine, zero. I know it leaks. I caulked a panel after removal. 
3rd or 4th season, can't recall. She'll need at least a new top skin next year. Otherwise the boiler is in good shape and heats the hell
out of my house & Taj Magarage on Ten cord.
Have you cleaned the heat exchangers? This is key also.


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## maddscot (Nov 24, 2010)

trailhound68 said:
			
		

> Draft is so important whith these boilers. Like it's been said, determine your draft and exhaust temps. You can't dial it in otherwise.
> I had too much draft w/ a 6" SS flue 24'. Was able to take off a 4' section and add a cap, like Fred says not to. Works fine.
> I average a 5 gallon pail of ash per week when it's cold. The flat shovel is my only tool. If it's not kept clean, it'll suck. You've got to
> keep the air inlets completely open. No gaskets on mine, zero. I know it leaks. I caulked a panel after removal.
> ...



Maybe you (or someone ) could explain to me what Im looking for with the temps and where to take them. I have not cleaned the heat exchangers. How do you and does it take long? 

I have used the red silicon on my draft door. Its been over 48 hours and it is still wet/soft. Im freezing my ass off. It has until morning and Im lighting the boiler. Wax paper on it or not. I tried to pull off the wax paper but its stuck to the silicon.


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## Pat53 (Nov 24, 2010)

Hey bro, if you haven't cleaned that HX in 3 years, you may want to do so before firing up that boiler. Be forewarned, it is not an enjoyable experience. You will have to take off the back panel and possibly the top as well. If its plugged up it will take several hours to clean it, sorry, no easy way to do it. I know, not exactly what you wanted to hear, but if your HX is like a lot of Seton, GW owners' has been after just ONE season, it is probably pretty plugged up and not working very efficiently at all.

As far as the silicon, you need to get some heat on it. It will not dry without warming it up to about room temperature for a day or so. 

Pat


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## maddscot (Nov 25, 2010)

Pat53 said:
			
		

> Hey bro, if you haven't cleaned that HX in 3 years, you may want to do so before firing up that boiler. Be forewarned, it is not an enjoyable experience. You will have to take off the back panel and possibly the top as well. If its plugged up it will take several hours to clean it, sorry, no easy way to do it. I know, not exactly what you wanted to hear, but if your HX is like a lot of Seton, GW owners' has been after just ONE season, it is probably pretty plugged up and not working very efficiently at all.
> 
> As far as the silicon, you need to get some heat on it. It will not dry without warming it up to about room temperature for a day or so.
> 
> Pat



Well its to late. I fired it up last night. Outside temps were down to 17* and I needed heat. Maybe if its not to much work for you (or someone) you write some some step by step directions on how to clean the HX. And by HX Im assumming you mean the big heat exchanger (big pipes) up above the firebox. Im a little dissappointed with Fred. I have spent a decent amount of time on the phone with Fred before and after I bought this boiler and he never went into any preventive maintenance needed. Of course Im just as much to blame since I never asked about any PM that should be done.

So to all who have commented and helped me on this thread, here is what I have observed.

Outside temp was 17*, inside last night before firing up the boiler was 46*. This morning my house, approx 3500 square feet, was 65*. The draft door opens at 165* and closes at 185*, altho my aquastat is set a little below 180*. I place a thermastat on my exhaust 13 inches away from boiler. When draft door opens my chimney is between 135* and 150*. When draft door closes the chimney temp is 225* to 250*.



Remember that this is trying to bring my house up to temp and is cycling on and off fairly quickly.
Happy Thanksgiving all.

Ian


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## maddscot (Dec 6, 2010)

So to all who have commented and helped me on this thread, here is what I have observed.

Outside temp was 17*, inside last night before firing up the boiler was 46*. This morning my house, approx 3500 square feet, was 65*. The draft door opens at 165* and closes at 185*, altho my aquastat is set a little below 180*. I place a thermastat on my exhaust 13 inches away from boiler. When draft door opens my chimney is between 135* and 150*. When draft door closes the chimney temp is 225* to 250*.



Remember that this is trying to bring my house up to temp and is cycling on and off fairly quickly.


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## Trzebs13 (Dec 7, 2010)

A few points, everyone here is trying to help. They are spot on when they say to seal this thing up especcaly if you are overheating.  I guessing that the boiler shuts down and the temps keep creaping up and whamo it's blowing off.  Fix;  seal it up and then set your aquastat lower.  Second lower your pressure.  Nothing I've seen or read has told me you need any more than 15 psi in the system.  If it is a combination pressure and temp blow off you may be blowing that because of pressure.  Espessily if you don't have a large enough expansion tank for your system. I'm still experiminting with my load sizes my self.  Are there allot of coals or is it all ash?  Try smaller loads this may help with the amount of coals that build up.

As far as the amount of wood you go threw.  My father has a forced air wood stove and goes threw allot less than I do but not twice as much.  You get your probleblems corrected and you be happy with your unit.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 7, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> Outside temp was 17*,* inside last night before firing up the boiler was 46**. This morning my house, approx 3500 square feet, was 65*. The draft door opens at 165* and closes at 185*, altho my aquastat is set a little below 180*. I place a thermastat on my exhaust 13 inches away from boiler. When draft door opens my chimney is between 135* and 150*. When draft door closes the chimney temp is 225* to 250*.
> 
> 
> Ian



Congratulations Ian! You must be hung like a horse if your wife puts up with a house down to 46 °F 

First bit of advice . . . quit expectin Fred (or any other Service Dept.) to help you. I've never talked to Fred, but it's my observation alot of people have questions, then try to tell him he's wrong about this or that. And most of these people have never given Fred one thin Dime. You know, the thing that makes the worl go around. It's a wonder he answers the phone.

While I'd recommend reading on this site, I think you should concentrate on people who have set ups as similar to you. Though my hydronic unit is similar to yours, mine is an open system. And with my system, I can tell you that air leaks do *not* cause overtemps. My top skin has a square hole where the nipple comes through with *nothing to seal it* When my damper closes, my temps go about 2-3 degrees higher.

But the guys here that run Setons as a closed system seem to have a different experience. They seem to say you must eliminate all air leaks. I quess if I were in your shoes (but still with my experience) I would want some plumbing/heating gal (or guy if a pretty gal couln't be found) to look over my system and figure out the flow/pressure/temp thing and get it right!

Question for you . . . If you leave the wood-fired unit 'in the loop' but not running, how does your fossill unit operate? What kind of pressure/temps do you get?

If this is your first season, you may as well accept the fact its gonna be a b!tch. Just the way it is. Just like you can accept the fact that each year you are gonna get better and better at it till one day you'll be on here spoutin off to newbies about how to run their system the right way :smirk: 

Rock on!


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## Hardass (Dec 7, 2010)

How old is your boiler(when was it built) Did it come from Montana Stove Works or some where else?I have built Seton boilers for the last year, no boilers are sealead on any of the doors, draft or feed.Though i learned a"lot in the last year i am still quite new to the boiler industry.As you see i am also new to this site and here to try and learn more about what is happening out there.
I am a"slo looking for all sites on boilers that have good or bad to say about the Seton boiler so Any info would be help full. Thanks.


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## Deere10 (Dec 7, 2010)

Trust me  Iseedeadbtu  is correct.  I spouted off alot to him last year. The first year is a royal pain in the a$$.  Took mine all apart over the summer to clean HX  I was amazed at how much build up there was on the tubes(HX pipes).  Yes a huge pain to take apart and clean but may very well be worth it.  stay calm and listen to all the posters.  good luck


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## maddscot (Dec 7, 2010)

[quote author="Trzebs13" date="1291715266"]A few points, everyone here is trying to help. They are spot on when they say to seal this thing up especcaly if you are overheating.  I guessing that the boiler shuts down and the temps keep creaping up and whamo it's blowing off.  Fix;  seal it up and then set your aquastat lower.  Second lower your pressure.  Nothing I've seen or read has told me you need any more than 15 psi in the system.  If it is a combination pressure and temp blow off you may be blowing that because of pressure.  Espessily if you don't have a large enough expansion tank for your system. I'm still experiminting with my load sizes my self.  Are there allot of coals or is it all ash?  Try smaller loads this may help with the amount of coals that build up.

As far as the amount of wood you go threw.  My father has a forced air wood stove and goes threw allot less than I do but not twice as much.  You get your probleblems corrected and you be happy with your unit.[/quote

I realize and appreciate that everyone here is trying to help and it was not my intention to offend or upset anyone.

I have a gasket on my draft door now and it is much better. In fact, and Im embarressed to say, I left my drop light chord on the chimney and it melted blowing the breaker. Without power and a freshly loaded firebox it did over heat but only for a very short time, the draft door closed and the fire was for the most part out by the time I noticed it. The temp was around 150*.Im sure there are still some air leaks somewhere but not sure how to find them. I been using a lighter. I also put on a larger expansion tank. The one that came with the boiler was very small. I put on a Watts EXT-30. I was told by the salesman it was a 30 gallon, but maybe meant a 30 lb. But it is much larger. It is the Temp that is blowing off. With the little expansion tank thhe pressure pop off was always blowing so I just took it off last winter. I did lower my pressure but it wont stay below 20 psi.

I was also misleading when I was talking about ash. It is probally 256% ash and 75% coals.. They are almost as high as the loading door. I thought that it was due to the fire not burning hot enough due to a lack of draft but a lot of people on here think I may have to much draft with my 30 to 35 foot chimney. I listed my chimney temps in hopes that it would mean something to someone on here.


Cheers

Ian


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## maddscot (Dec 7, 2010)

Hardass said:
			
		

> How old is your boiler(when was it built) Did it come from Montana Stove Works or some where else?I have built Seton boilers for the last year, no boilers are sealead on any of the doors, draft or feed.Though i learned a"lot in the last year i am still quite new to the boiler industry.As you see i am also new to this site and here to try and learn more about what is happening out there.
> I am a"slo looking for all sites on boilers that have good or bad to say about the Seton boiler so Any info would be help full. Thanks.



I bought the boiler from Fred Seton himself in the fall of 2007.


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## maddscot (Dec 7, 2010)

Trzebs13 said:
			
		

> A few points, everyone here is trying to help. They are spot on when they say to seal this thing up especcaly if you are overheating.  I guessing that the boiler shuts down and the temps keep creaping up and whamo it's blowing off.  Fix;  seal it up and then set your aquastat lower.  Second lower your pressure.  Nothing I've seen or read has told me you need any more than 15 psi in the system.  If it is a combination pressure and temp blow off you may be blowing that because of pressure.  Espessily if you don't have a large enough expansion tank for your system. I'm still experiminting with my load sizes my self.  Are there allot of coals or is it all ash?  Try smaller loads this may help with the amount of coals that build up.
> 
> As far as the amount of wood you go threw.  My father has a forced air wood stove and goes threw allot less than I do but not twice as much.  You get your probleblems corrected and you be happy with your unit.



I realize and appreciate that everyone here is trying to help and it was not my intention to offend or upset anyone.

I have a gasket on my draft door now and it is much better. In fact, and Im embarressed to say, I left my drop light chord on the chimney and it melted blowing the breaker. Without power and a freshly loaded firebox it did over heat but only for a very short time, the draft door closed and the fire was for the most part out by the time I noticed it. The temp was around 150*.Im sure there are still some air leaks somewhere but not sure how to find them. I been using a lighter. I also put on a larger expansion tank. The one that came with the boiler was very small. I put on a Watts EXT-30. I was told by the salesman it was a 30 gallon, but maybe meant a 30 lb. But it is much larger. It is the Temp that is blowing off. With the little expansion tank thhe pressure pop off was always blowing so I just took it off last winter. I did lower my pressure but it wont stay below 20 psi.

I was also misleading when I was talking about ash. It is probally 256% ash and 75% coals.. They are almost as high as the loading door. I thought that it was due to the fire not burning hot enough due to a lack of draft but a lot of people on here think I may have to much draft with my 30 to 35 foot chimney. I listed my chimney temps in hopes that it would mean something to someone on here.


Cheers

Ian


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 7, 2010)

maddscot said:
			
		

> I was also misleading when I was talking about ash. It is probally 256% ash and 75% coals.. They are almost *as high as the loading door*. I thought that it was due to the fire not burning hot enough due to a lack of draft but a lot of people on here think I may have to much draft with my 30 to 35 foot chimney. I listed my chimney temps in hopes that it would mean something to someone on here.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> ...



Sorry, but I'm passionate about this . . . *coals should be at least 1" below the bottom of the air inlets B4 you ad wood.*

Yup, I know you think it can't be done, won't produce heat, yada, yada, yada. Let me just say . . . . bu|| shi+!! LOL. Been there, done that as they say. It ain't gonna run right if you insist on loading inappropriatly. Carefully rake the coals to the back. As long as they are coals {not ash} you can cover the air holes. The coals will continue to burn down. Do not add wood until they are below the air holes. From the sounds, you will have to keep raking ever 30-40 minutes.  When the coal bed is level and at least 1" below the bottom of the air inlets, add some 3-4" dry rounds. These should immediatly take off. Then add larger rounds, only halfway up the load door, close the door and walk away.

No need to worry about offending anyone here. The one guy you offended left a long time ago. The place smells better now ;-) 

report back on your progress


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## Trzebs13 (Dec 8, 2010)

I posted ealier on the coal build up here as well.  I have since found a few things.  If you keep loading the box with wood wheather it needs it or not.  You will have coal build up.  Jimbo is mostly correct.  But every system is a little different.  The thing is you cannot let that box fill up with all coals.  Like mentioned keep raking them around and one thing I have done (not to say it correct or reccomended) is I put a small fan in back of the unit to force air into the chamber to help expidite the coal elimination process.  And the other thing I have noticed is that with warmer days and espessily if you don't have dry wood, this can become an issue.  Get that thing cleaned out and start over.  Put samller amounts of wood in it than you have been and start from there.  I have noticed as the temps are now dropping and the demand for heat is going up this has become less of an issue for me.  I haven't found a great way to check for leaks as well, tried using a cigerette and still can't say that I could tell.  Do the best you can is about all I can say.

This is one issue that I think storage would be a huge benifit.  And I think that it would help the huge temp swings you can get with out it.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 8, 2010)

Trzebs13 said:
			
		

> And the other thing I have noticed is that with warmer days and espessily if you don't have dry wood, this can become an issue.  Get that thing cleaned out and start over.  Put samller amounts of wood in it than you have been and start from there.  I have noticed as the temps are now dropping and the demand for heat is going up this has become less of an issue for me.  I haven't found a great way to check for leaks as well, tried using a cigerette and still can't say that I could tell.  Do the best you can is about all I can say.
> 
> This is one issue that I think storage would be a huge benifit.  And I think that it would help the huge temp swings you can get with out it.



Do not put visibly wet wood into the CC. No snow, no ice.
Always put a layer of quality wood on the coals.
Do not load until coals are 1" below air inlets. ans water is below 170 °F 
Quit lookin for air leaks.
If temp swings beyond set points, figure out why.
Screw storage. Instead, load appropriatly and start 1 fire a year.

Yup, I know I'm repeating myself. I'm a prick that way. Sooner or later you'll get it :smirk:  For the sake of your sanity, I hope it's sooner.
If I had a dime for every time I tried to extract ashes without killing the fire in this beast while I was strugling up the learning curve, I'd be rich. Now, I'm taking out ~1Gal/wk while not disturbing the fire.

Rock on!


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## Deere10 (Dec 8, 2010)

About the same here  a little over a gallon a week.Approx 2 med shovels full and thats it.All ashes and not to many coals  I try n leave em alone.Tonite will be in the single digits. This is when these run the best as stated before.I added a small 3 fan set up in the back of the unit also, cant say as it helped w the coals or not.  I have learned to load properly and now have preached to my sons to do the same. They are finally understanding too.


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## Hardass (Dec 8, 2010)

Speaking of coals and ash these boilers seem to build up a very hard layer in the bottom that needs to be chipped out of there, or it will build up to the draft holes.Which will cause issues with the draft tubes.


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## 2.beans (Dec 8, 2010)

Hardass said:
			
		

> How old is your boiler(when was it built) Did it come from Montana Stove Works or some where else?I have built Seton boilers for the last year, no boilers are sealead on any of the doors, draft or feed.Though i learned a"lot in the last year i am still quite new to the boiler industry.As you see i am also new to this site and here to try and learn more about what is happening out there.
> I am a"slo looking for all sites on boilers that have good or bad to say about the Seton boiler so Any info would be help full. Thanks.


fred is that you?


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## 2.beans (Dec 8, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Trzebs13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you should be the tech line rep. perfect! i love it. the only reason i sealed mine up was for the storage. with my f-upped work hours i need a non fossill back up


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## Trzebs13 (Dec 9, 2010)

quote]Do not put visibly wet wood into the CC. No snow, no ice.
Always put a layer of quality wood on the coals.
Do not load until coals are 1" below air inlets. ans water is below 170 °F 
Quit lookin for air leaks.
If temp swings beyond set points, figure out why.
Screw storage. Instead, load appropriatly and start 1 fire a year.

Yup, I know I'm repeating myself. I'm a prick that way. Sooner or later you'll get it :smirk:  For the sake of your sanity, I hope it's sooner.
If I had a dime for every time I tried to extract ashes without killing the fire in this beast while I was strugling up the learning curve, I'd be rich. Now, I'm taking out ~1Gal/wk while not disturbing the fire.

Rock on![/quote]

Mostly correct once agian.  In fanticy land we could always wait until the fire is almost burned out and temps would stay above 170.  Here in the real world there is such a thing called life.  Lets see, a guy gets up in the morning, looks at his boiler and the water temps are down to 110.  He opens the door and see's a good amount of coals.  The 1800 sq foot of infloor is calling for heat, which the boiler will never keep up with just coals in the bottom.  What does he do?  Go wright another post on Hearth.com?  Nope he rakes the coals to the front (away from the air intake) chucks the thing full of wood and gets his azz to work.  Cuz he don't rely on anybody's stash but his own.

What you have to do some times may not be the exact perfect senareo but you got to do, what you got to do.  Hopefully when you can afford some time is to keep raking the coals around and get them to burn down.  Clean the thing out and the cycle starts over.

I'm still concerened about why you (Ian) are getting the boil overs.  Has anything you have done seemed to solve that? 
Are your temps creeping up like I discribed ealier? One last is I'm confussed about how you over heated and the temp was only 150?

Still cant figure out how you are getting 256% ash?  LOL


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 9, 2010)

Trzebs13 said:
			
		

> Mostly correct once agian.  In fanticy land we could always wait until the fire is almost burned out and temps would stay above 170.  Here in the real world there is such a thing called life.  Lets see, a guy gets up in the morning, looks at his boiler and the water temps are down to 110.  He opens the door and see's a good amount of coals.  The 1800 sq foot of infloor is calling for heat, which the boiler will never keep up with just coals in the bottom.  What does he do?  Go wright another post on Hearth.com?  Nope he rakes the coals to the front (away from the air intake) chucks the thing full of wood and gets his azz to work.



Damn! Makes me all warm and fuzzy to be mostly correct  

If you wake up in the morning and the water is 110 °F , yet you have a big heaping bed of unproductive coals, I'd like to suggest:

1)You didn't load appropriatly (not enough solid fuel to go between closing and re-opening the door. This may require
a)loading later the night b4
b)Increasing the quantity, quality or both of the fuel added the night b4
c)getting up earlier the next morning

2)Assuming you have a backup fossil heat sorce, you need to automate this to kick in at 10 °F  below your GW damper open point. With my open system, this is accomplished with an aquastat which turns off the circulator on the oil side of the HX

3)In combination with #2 above, some sort of heat retention unit to close the GW damper.

The fantasy world has a Viessmann Vitolig 200 tied to solar with both indoor and outdoor storage. Katarina Witt loads the wood and keeps things tidy.

Here in the real world we just heat our space with a tired GW100 and try to load such that the next time we anticipate having time/desire to reload, the fuel will be spent with just a small coal bed left.


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## Hardass (Dec 9, 2010)

No 2 Bean this is not Fred ,However i worked for him.And was going to buy a small Boiler buisness from him. There were very few sales from him and after learning more about how many times the buisness has been sold and the failures i decided it was not for me.I think he is trying to sell it again if your interested HaHaHa. I do have 3 2010 boilers for sale pretty cheap if you know any one that is interested.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 9, 2010)

Well, Har, or anyone with knowledge for that matter . . .

Am I correct that of all the Setonesque units, Only GW has no grates? Anyone know why GW thought that was an improvement?

And rethinking the coal/ash buildup . . . are those of you running RMND's *with* grates having buildup troubles? It just seems to me that would be more of a problem without grates, than it would be with . . .


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## Hardass (Dec 9, 2010)

By grates are you talking for the wood to sit on? If so no Seton boiler i have seen or built has any sort of grate in the fire box.Also there is no ash dump in the bottom any more or a clean out in the front.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 9, 2010)

Didn't the old Setons (and I believe the GreeFire) have holes in the bottom of the primary CC for ash to drop into a pan?

If so, why did Seton change that design?


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## Hardass (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes some of them did and i'm not positive why but i think there were some issues with air leaks. I had 1 come into the shop for a complete rebuild and we closed that all off.Now it's just a solid bottom sitting on a layer of insulation.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 9, 2010)

That's my point. I *always* have a point. You may run out of patience b4 I get there;nevertheless, I've a point!

Seems like many guys running Setons with Ash pans have tendencies to overtemp. They gasket all the doors, but the biggest air leak is the ash pan area.

Someone will correct me where I'm wrong  , but the GreenFires also have the ash pan/door. Seems to me they also overtemp easily.

My GW has a solid bottom to the CC. I do not overtemp unless the electric goes out :shut:  or I load inappropriatly on a warm day. But it takes a few years to figure out how to deal with the ashes.

Since I want to redesign the secondary CC, I am just trying to figure out which design of the primary CC has the least problems.


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## Hardass (Dec 9, 2010)

What exactly are you meaning by redesign?


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## sparke (Dec 9, 2010)

As I have said before, I have zero issues with ashes as long as I clean out the pan once a week.  This includes the times I run the unit non stop during cold spells ( I don't utilize storage if the heating load is heavy, it is just as easy to run 24/7 in the real cold weather).  

I don't have overheat problems and my unit is not 100% air tight.  I feel the overheat issues others experience are due to a few factors.  Piping/pumps wrong size- poor arrangement, operator error (amount of fuel compared to heating load), air in the heating lines, boiler over sized, etc...

I have thought of several different designs.  My favorite was to bury the heat exchanger in refractory, but after talking to Mark we didn't think the refractory would hold up.  I think the best design change would be a different Hx that is easier to get at and clean.  I like the idea of somehow getting heated secondary air at the top of the firebox.


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## maddscot (Dec 10, 2010)

Trzebs13 said:
			
		

> quote]Do not put visibly wet wood into the CC. No snow, no ice.
> Always put a layer of quality wood on the coals.
> Do not load until coals are 1" below air inlets. ans water is below 170 °F
> Quit lookin for air leaks.
> ...



Mostly correct once agian.  In fanticy land we could always wait until the fire is almost burned out and temps would stay above 170.  Here in the real world there is such a thing called life.  Lets see, a guy gets up in the morning, looks at his boiler and the water temps are down to 110.  He opens the door and see's a good amount of coals.  The 1800 sq foot of infloor is calling for heat, which the boiler will never keep up with just coals in the bottom.  What does he do?  Go wright another post on Hearth.com?  Nope he rakes the coals to the front (away from the air intake) chucks the thing full of wood and gets his azz to work.  Cuz he don't rely on anybody's stash but his own.

What you have to do some times may not be the exact perfect senareo but you got to do, what you got to do.  Hopefully when you can afford some time is to keep raking the coals around and get them to burn down.  Clean the thing out and the cycle starts over.

I'm still concerened about why you (Ian) are getting the boil overs.  Has anything you have done seemed to solve that? 
Are your temps creeping up like I discribed ealier? One last is I'm confussed about how you over heated and the temp was only 150?

Still cant figure out how you are getting 256% ash?  LOL[/quote]

Funny guy . No picking on my typo's....

I put the red silicone on my draft door and Im not getting the over heat problem. When the draft door closes the temp goes up a couple of degree's and then comes down like it should. As far as the over heat at 150*, I didnt explain myself very well. I blew the breaked shortly after I loaded the boiler. Without power the draft door automatically closes. So it over heated a little but with a good seal on the draft door, the fire went out and the temp came down. It was at 150* by the time I realized what had happened. 

So like you, I work. Im outta the house by 5 am, fire needs wood so I load it. When I get home I have 4 young kids, 3 of them are doing hockey and basketball. Get done with that and its 9 pm. Put kids to bed load the fire and Im off to bed. So what do yiou use to rake the coals around with? I did try to let the coals burn but by then my house (a little less than 3300 sq ft with radient floor) is at 60*. Then it takes most the day to get up to 70. Unless like tonight its 5* outside the house wont get above 65*.


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## maddscot (Dec 10, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Didn't the old Setons (and I believe the GreeFire) have holes in the bottom of the primary CC for ash to drop into a pan?
> 
> If so, why did Seton change that design?



Fred told me he did away with the ash pan because it wasnt needed and it was rotting out.


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## Deere10 (Dec 10, 2010)

Let me tell ya Damm near 5* out now  house 74* just put 4 big Maple rounds on. Some coals may have been built up   But by morn they will be close to gone. And house will still be near 74.   Thats all good untill 6 or 7 am when I wake up.


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## roaring fire (Dec 10, 2010)

I am in my 4 th season with a seton clone.
Jimbo( iseedeadbtus) has loading & ash issues
with those units down pat. You have to wait until the coals burn
down .Last year I added a timer to my unit which gives me better control of burn times
I load the boiler, set the timer for 6 to 8 hrs( depending on wood load & heat demand)  
The timer is by far the most useful addition since I have fired my boiler!
Jimbo has written a ton of threads on these boilers, it would be time well spent 
to browse through.
Best
Dan


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## Trzebs13 (Dec 14, 2010)

I've often pondered how some of you are able to not hit your dump zone when running at higher temps. I have said before that my hits often. I'm also a big beliver in that everyone has some difference in there system design. There are probably no two systems exactly alike.  Weather it be the unit indoor or out, length of main loop to there load, quality of insulation in there under ground lines, and volume of the system. I really think that all of these have a huge effect on hitting the dump. In my situation I have my boiler in my attached garage and the main loop is only about 100' of 1" pex round trip, with all of the pipe indoors. I have very little if any heat that is consumed threw that loop. So when the boiler is pumping with a full load and shuts down with nothing calling for heat there is maybe 10-15 gallons of fluid that is circulating. With the boiler putting out 130,000 BTU's and the thermal storage of the refractory it's self. There just isn't any place for that heat to go. Now say the next guy has the same 100' run underground and is loosing even 1 deg huge difference. I don't think that the grate on the bottom is having much if any effect on the over heating. And others have theories that air leaks are not important and have little effect. With all of that being said I'm not going down the road of storage but I wonder if a small buffer tank would cure some of this. By adding some volume to a system that has very little, it may be able to be more stable.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Dec 14, 2010)

I pondered a buffer tank in year one, basically thinking it would provide 45 minutes of heat while a new load got up to speed. I never did it. Let us know how it works if you do.

Agree wholheartedly that even when systems are similar, the differences can be creating different scenarios.

Get yer Burn on, People :cheese:  It's cold out there!! :cheese:  :cheese:  (We waited all Summer 4 this weather; it beats the hell outa' 90 °F)


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## Trzebs13 (Dec 14, 2010)

I've often pondered how some of you are able to not hit your dump zone when running at higher temps. I have said before that my hits often. I'm also a big beliver in that everyone has some difference in there system design. There are probably no two systems exactly alike.  Weather it be the unit indoor or out, length of main loop to there load, quality of insulation in there under ground lines, and volume of the system. I really think that all of these have a huge effect on hitting the dump. In my situation I have my boiler in my attached garage and the main loop is only about 100' of 1" pex round trip, with all of the pipe indoors. I have very little if any heat that is consumed threw that loop. So when the boiler is pumping with a full load and shuts down with nothing calling for heat there is maybe 10-15 gallons of fluid that is circulating. With the boiler putting out 130,000 BTU's and the thermal storage of the refractory it's self. There just isn't any place for that heat to go. Now say the next guy has the same 100' run underground and is loosing even 1 deg huge difference. I don't think that the grate on the bottom is having much if any effect on the over heating. And others have theories that air leaks are not important and have little effect. With all of that being said I'm not going down the road of storage but I wonder if a small buffer tank would cure some of this. By adding some volume to a system that has very little, it may be able to be more stable.


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## maddscot (Jan 7, 2011)

Well I have a 50 gallon hot water tank that I use for a buffer. Dont know if it helps but here is my situation now, if your not all bored stupid with me by now.

I sealed up the boiler best I could. Im sure I still have some small air leaks but its much better.

So with it about 12* outside. I set my aquastat to open damper at 155* and closes at 175*. I dont see why it would need to be set higher (infact Im thinking of maybe lowering it) since my mixing valve is set to 120* for radient heat. I put a thermastat on my exhaust approx 12" from back of boiler. The chimney temp when damper opens is between 250 -275*. When damper closes its between 375-400*. Now I always thought my draft was low because when I open the loading door smoke just pours out as opposed to going up chimney. 

So what do you guys think?

Happy New Year to all


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## Trzebs13 (Jan 7, 2011)

That is a very common issue with these boilers. There has been allot of discussion on the smoke rolling out the door. This is why some think that these have no place in an enclosed finished space, meaning your house or attached garage. But I have learned allot the past 3 years and this year I think that I have got it down. I have added a smoke curtain and in conjunction with getting to know when to fire up has cut my smoking down to a very minimum. For the most part I know when I need to fire up so I don't get any but this has really cut down on it big time.


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## maddscot (Jan 11, 2011)

The smoke issue is something I can live with if its common. I was just afraid that I didnt have enough draft. So can you guy's (and any gal's) tell me what they think of my draft with the chimney temps I gave?

Cheers
Ian


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