# Nature's blower door test



## laynes69 (Dec 28, 2015)

Tonight, we're having gusts of 33 mph out of the east hitting our old home, with temps in the mid 30's. I can walk around in this weather with my seek cam and find leakage pretty easy. My wife came down from upstairs and our bedroom was probably 10 degrees cooler than usual. She said she could smell fresh air. This is from one of the corners of our bedroom. The air was pouring in above and below the trim. You can see the caulk gun and tools that were in the basement about 10 feet from the woodfurnace I set on the carpet. Having the cam, I take advantage of this weather to find trouble spots.


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## begreen (Dec 28, 2015)

That's pretty dramatic evidence. Nice sleuthing.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 28, 2015)

I gotta seek a seek cam...so cool


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## williaty (Dec 28, 2015)

Supposedly I have a FLIR ONE thermal camera. I say "supposedly" because I bought it and waited 7 months on backorder. Then, when it got here, I only used it a few days before it was apparent that it had a battery problem and had to go in for service. They've had the camera just shy of a month and no sign of a fix, a replacement, or any progress. I ask about it weekly and I get told every time that it'll ship out later that day and yet it never does.

Never, ever, buy a FLIR product!


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## Lake Girl (Dec 28, 2015)

Pretty stark evidence ... Don't think I'll ask the Hubby to bring the camera home from work


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## laynes69 (Dec 29, 2015)

I must say, there's no hiding when using the camera. The resolution is low, but it's saved me a ton.


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## Buzz Saw (Jan 1, 2016)

What's a camera like that cost?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2016)

Looks like they were $199 when they came out...running ~$250 or so now depending on where you buy


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

Yeah, I paid $199 I think.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> Yeah, I paid $199 I think.


Do you have a standard model or the newer XR model...think the XR is worth the extra money?


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

I have the standard model, for what I use the camera for the xr wouldn't work as well. I think the xr is more for outdoor use. I've used mine for vehicle repairs, leak detection, air leakage, etc. I've used mine for up close work. They truly are worth their weight in gold. The camera's are tiny, but they come with a case that really protects them. The sort ware is nice also, you can set a temperature range outside of where you want. So if air leakage is detected or lack of insulation, those areas will glow. You can also save videos and pictures.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2016)

I had to make sure that it will work with the wife's Droid Maxx phone, they say it works with Android 4.3 or better...her phone is 4.4.4, so were good...I'm honing in on one now  
Since I can't seem to heat this joint with the Tundra when its under 30*, maybe I can find some "low hanging fruit" air leaks or insulation issues?


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

If you order one, order a small 6" extension cord for it also. That way you don't have to remove your case if you have one on the phone. I wish I had this thing when I airsealed our attic, but I still can pull back the cellulose if I find a problem area. The sensor is sensitive and can detect a few degree difference. Walking across the floor it will pick up footprints. I say pull the trigger and buy one, you will not regret it. Easily you'll get your money back out of it in savings.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2016)

They plug directly into the micro USB port of the phone, correct? The case that is on the phone leaves the micro usb port exposed. I am kind of a tool and gadget junkie, and this pushes both buttons, so it didn't take much to get me thinking seriously about getting one. Especially since one of my Christmas gifts was gonna be a digital "cylinder" inspection camera that was never ordered (yet) due to missing the sale...soooo, thinking I'm gon do a switcheroo


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## williaty (Jan 1, 2016)

Though you can see my poor experience with the FLIR service department written above, one thing to consider is that the ONE has more resolution, better delta-T, and better temperature accuracy than the Seek. The MSX visual-IR blending mode is also a BIG advantage.

Whether all that is worth dealing with FLIR's terrible service... man I just don't know anymore.


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

According to some reviews, the seek has a higher temperature range up to around 650 degrees, while the flir one is around 250 degrees. The seek also had a higher thermal resolution sensor. With the two cameras on the flir, the image resolution is better. I didn't realize the flir one had a battery that needs charged, the seek uses the cell phone for power. The seek is smaller than a 9 volt battery. Brenn..our case opens also, but the thickness of the case does not allow for the seek to plug in. Having the cord allows you to move the camera into places where the phone may not go.


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## begreen (Jan 1, 2016)

Looks like it will work with my HTC One. Hey Santa, don't go home yet.


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

I didn't get any pics, but currently it's 24° with a chill of 13°. I went on our roof which is a mansard and pulled the attic access cover off. The cam is showing multiple hot spots, probably ceiling fan boxes I missed when airsealing, and various places where the exposed joists are bridging heat. These are areas covered by cellulose insulation, so the air leakage must be pretty good in these locations.


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## williaty (Jan 1, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> According to some reviews, the seek has a higher temperature range up to around 650 degrees, while the flir one is around 250 degrees. The seek also had a higher thermal resolution sensor. With the two cameras on the flir, the image resolution is better. I didn't realize the flir one had a battery that needs charged, the seek uses the cell phone for power. The seek is smaller than a 9 volt battery. Brenn..our case opens also, but the thickness of the case does not allow for the seek to plug in. Having the cord allows you to move the camera into places where the phone may not go.


There's two entirely different products, both called the FLIR ONE :lol:

The 1st generation ONE only fit the iPhone 5 and had an abysmally low IR resolution. The 2nd generation ONE come in an iOS (an iOS device with Lightning port) and Android version and has a much higher resolution than the 1st gen as well as some other tweeks. Yes, the ONE tops out at 243F but so far this hasn't been an issue for me. Additionally, the 2nd gen ONE works with the Flir Tools thermography software, which is a BIG advantage that FLIR doesn't publicize anywhere. The one thing the ONE doesn't do that the Seek does, and is really a big deal, is to allow you to pick the min and max temp for the display range. The ONE only allows you to lock the current values, not set them explicitly.


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2016)

Right. I was comparing the second generation ONE. Is this what you are talking about? Here is the kitchen door that leaks like crazy (it's on the honey-do list). I chose anything under 60°F, so what's in blue is where the leakage is occuring, and of course the glass is cold.


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## williaty (Jan 1, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> Right. I was comparing the second generation ONE. Is this what you are talking about?


Yeah, I've got a 2nd-gen ONE. Its resolution is 160 by 120. I just compared that to the new Seeks and was surprised to see Seek has upped their game, probably in response to the 2nd-gen ONE. It's really cool to see rapid development in the consumer segment of this device! In the 90s, I got to play with a thermal camera on career day in middle school. Still had to pour a cup of liquid nitrogen into the top of it to get a few minutes of imaging done. Then a couple of years ago a even marginally useful thermal cam was 5 grand or more. Now, we're playing with $250 widgets the size of a pack of gum and complaining about lack of high end features 

Here's a door example from the ONE. I took the picture the ONE saved to my phone into FLIR's Tools software and scaled the min and max temp for the color pallet to make it easy to see what's going on. This first version is the pure IR data only:



This version uses FLIR's MSX mode where it blends edges found in the visible light image with the thermal data to make it easier to figure out what you're looking at.




This image was taking from outside, so hot is bad. Whites and bright yellows represent heat leaking out of the house. With the Tools software, I can actually take this image and get a temperature readout for any pixel in the image. I can also draw lines, boxes, circles, or odd shapes and it'll tell me the minimum, maximum, and average temp within the shape. The software definitely dramatically extends what you can do with the camera.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm honing in on one now


Got it! Hopefully I will be insulation sleuthing by this time next week


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## laynes69 (Jan 2, 2016)

Sweet! When I airsealed the attic, I only had 3" of insulation up there. Just airsealing the attic alone and not adding any insulation right away made a world of difference on the house, 32 open wall cavities! I lived here for probably 5 years before finding it. The amount of heat produced from the old furnace made me think our house heated easily...ya right. Also looking back we were burning probably 8 to 12 cord a year. I would try to keep track of how much, but I would cut it and burn it right away as well as pull from a pile.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2016)

Yeah, I'm thinking air leaks would be the issue if any. Brick (stick framed) house, spray foam in walls, 2" fiberglass in attic-then 6" blown in cellulose over that-then another 4" of fiberglass over that. Only part (1/2 ?) of the ground floor has attic directly above it (typical cape cod style) The rest is the second story which is only heated when we have overnight guests. The second story is 2x4 framing with fiberglass in the stud bays.
The thing that makes me think there is an air leak is that when you have one of those 32* mornings...you know, where there is the slightest coat of frost on the roof...the north side of the roof has 2 small melted spots...hmm


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## laynes69 (Jan 2, 2016)

I realized there was an issue when I hopped into the attic from the roof when it was in the 20's out, and the attic was probably 50 degrees. The previous contractors (idiots) covered each cavity with a piece of fiberglass insulation and blew cellulose over it. I didn't have my cam at the time, wish I did. It took a couple dirty days of rooting around but boy has it saved me a ton of money, and comfort. Once we insulated, it brought the upstairs almost 10 degrees warmer. I started in the attic, basement, then the living area. Next on the list is a spray foam kit for the leaky perimeter in the basement.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 6, 2016)

Got my Christmas present today . Played with it for a while, way cool! 
So what is the best setting or way to detect heat leaking out of a heated space, (from inside)...say through a ceiling penetration (ceiling fan) or vent (bathroom fan)? Probably easiest from the attic, but can it be done from inside the room?


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## laynes69 (Jan 6, 2016)

Air leakage is a tricky thing. It depends on the pressure plains of the home. The highest areas of the home have air leaking to the exterior of the home. An attic would be the easiest place to see these, as well as the exterior of the home. The basement, first and second floor is where we see infiltration with trim, windows, etc. Interior partition walls, duct chaces, electrical boxes, etc. can be paths for air leaving the home. We airsealed the attic, then the basement. I found several pathways in the basement at the center of the house that were chimney's for escaping air. For those, I used inscent sticks.


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## williaty (Jan 6, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> Got my Christmas present today . Played with it for a while, way cool!
> So what is the best setting or way to detect heat leaking out of a heated space, (from inside)...say through a ceiling penetration (ceiling fan) or vent (bathroom fan)? Probably easiest from the attic, but can it be done from inside the room?


You can look from either side. What you're looking for is things that are different than the surrounding area. Inside, typically this will mean cold areas, but every one in a while you'll see a massive heat leak to the outside as a hot spot due to all the air moving through it. From the outside,  you're looking for cold spots. The most important will be to set the difference between the cold and hot limit for the picture so you have the right amount of contrast to see what you're interested in.


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## maple1 (Jan 7, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> Got my Christmas present today . Played with it for a while, way cool!
> So what is the best setting or way to detect heat leaking out of a heated space, (from inside)...say through a ceiling penetration (ceiling fan) or vent (bathroom fan)? Probably easiest from the attic, but can it be done from inside the room?


 
What exactly did you end up getting?


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## maple1 (Jan 7, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> I found several pathways in the basement at the center of the house that were chimney's for escaping air. For those, I used inscent sticks.


 
Can you give an example of what some of those center basement pathways would be? I would expect basement pathways to be more on the exterior of the basement & not the center.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 7, 2016)

maple1 said:


> What exactly did you end up getting?


Seek


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2016)

maple1 said:


> Can you give an example of what some of those center basement pathways would be? I would expect basement pathways to be more on the exterior of the basement & not the center.



We have an old victorian home. Where the beams met the interior walls base, there were openings that could be seen up into the walls. An incense stick confirmed what was happening. A more modern house shouldn't have this.


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## williaty (Jan 7, 2016)

Actually, interior walls being super leaky and functioning like a chimney from the basement up to the attic is still very common. Additionally, you may find electrical or plumbing chases that run basement-to-attic that are completely open as well. It's VERY common to find a giant hole under the lowest bathtube that runs all the way up to the highest place water is used to connect all the supply, drain, and vent piping.


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## srawlings (Jan 7, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> Tonight, we're having gusts of 33 mph out of the east hitting our old home, with temps in the mid 30's. I can walk around in this weather with my seek cam and find leakage pretty easy. My wife came down from upstairs and our bedroom was probably 10 degrees cooler than usual. She said she could smell fresh air. This is from one of the corners of our bedroom. The air was pouring in above and below the trim. You can see the caulk gun and tools that were in the basement about 10 feet from the woodfurnace I set on the carpet. Having the cam, I take advantage of this weather to find trouble spots.
> View attachment 170283


Before I read your last entry on Saturday, I was about to ask about the attic.  Sorry to hear about the insulation, but good to hear you are back on track!


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## laynes69 (Jan 7, 2016)

I went up there and did some investigating. There were a couple of spots that were warmer, bit nothing significant. I did discover the attic hatch is very leaky, and I sealed an interior corner on the outside of our home where the gingerbread molding is at. The attic floor was showing 42 degrees and the flat portion of the roof was 39 degrees. I need to blow in a few more inches of insulation.


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## williaty (Jan 12, 2016)

Those of you who have a Seek Compact (or Compact XR), in the software on your phone, can you lock the span (temperature range) or set the min and max temps for the display manually?


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## laynes69 (Jan 18, 2016)

williaty said:


> Those of you who have a Seek Compact (or Compact XR), in the software on your phone, can you lock the span (temperature range) or set the min and max temps for the display manually?


Sorry I missed your post. Yeah, you can set an above or below range. It allows you to see these areas in color only, so you can find those leaks. 

Hey @brenndatomu , you break out your camera?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 18, 2016)

laynes69 said:


> Hey @brenndatomu , you break out your camera?


Oh yeah!  I pretty much verified areas that I already suspected. Except I found out that when I had the walls spray foamed they didn't do above and below the windows...
I did seal up an area in the basement by the electrical entrance tonight...been meaning to do that for a while now...but since trying to heat with the Tundra now I don't have the luxury of extra firepower, unless I wanna fire up another stove...so had to start sealing


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## laynes69 (Jan 18, 2016)

brenndatomu said:


> Oh yeah!  I pretty much verified areas that I already suspected. Except I found out that when I had the walls spray foamed they didn't do above and below the windows...
> I did seal up an area in the basement by the electrical entrance tonight...been meaning to do that for a while now...but since trying to heat with the Tundra now I don't have the luxury of extra firepower, unless I wanna fire up another stove...so had to start sealing


Lol yeah. We have over 42 windows on our house and this year we decided to upgrade the curtains in our living rooms. We have 7 windows and an exterior door so we upgraded to blackout curtains that are energy efficient. Wow what a difference!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 18, 2016)

We have those cellular shades, they work good too


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