# RE: Which option to choose with splitter repair?



## firefighterjake (Sep 23, 2019)

So my faithful MTD woodsplitter is having issues . . . well more like a leaky bladder.

In addition to some engine issues I had a weeping gasket. Today the shop called and has given me some choices . . . a) replace the whole ram system from MTD (cost unknown) or b) they can send the cylinder out to a local hydraulic shop to be re-chromed as it is pitted and replace the seals. Thoughts?


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## ABMax24 (Sep 23, 2019)

We used to have a few excellent hydraulic shops up here, given that I'd send it out for re-chrome and re-seal up here if the cost was less than replacing.


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## johneh (Sep 24, 2019)

Before I decided which option I would want 
to know the costs of each. That way I could 
make an informed decision.


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## Bad LP (Sep 24, 2019)

It depends.

I had to have a leaky metric cylinder rebuilt for a machine and nearly crapped myself at the cost.
 A basic wood spliter cylinder should be rather cheap. When repaired store the machine with the cylinder retracted and the rod woun't get pitted.


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## blades (Sep 24, 2019)

generally with rechroming + labour to do the seals -might as well by new. Now you do not need to buy MTD's cylinder plenty other on market same size that will work just fine.  just match up length, ram diameter and mounting system, likely end up with a better cylinder that what you started with.   Other than poor mfg. you must have water mixed with your hydro fluid to get a pitted ram. Never store unit with ram extended.


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## duramaxman05 (Sep 24, 2019)

Check with surplus center or northern tool or bailey hydraulics(I think) for a new cylinder. Replacing seals is easy and reasonable, but rechroming the rod will probably be pricy.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 24, 2019)

Was the ram left extended for long periods of storage? 
If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.


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## thetooth (Sep 24, 2019)

I just replaced the seals on my Tractor Supply huskee splitter ( 10 years old ) . Speeco the manufacturer sent me a pdf of the cylinder disassembly  . Seals were $35 shipped . I did have a few nicks that I sanded out with 800/1500 wet sand paper . So far so good no leaks


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2019)

Bad LP said:


> It depends.
> 
> I had to have a leaky metric cylinder rebuilt for a machine and nearly crapped myself at the cost.
> A basic wood spliter cylinder should be rather cheap. When repaired store the machine with the cylinder retracted and the rod woun't get pitted.



Always have stored it with the rod retracted . . . and inside a shed . . . from Day 1. I don't believe it's ever spent a night outside.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2019)

johneh said:


> Before I decided which option I would want
> to know the costs of each. That way I could
> make an informed decision.



Yes . . . definitely waiting for the final price breakdown . . . but just trying to gauge which option seems better for the long run.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2019)

blades said:


> generally with rechroming + labour to do the seals -might as well by new. Now you do not need to buy MTD's cylinder plenty other on market same size that will work just fine.  just match up length, ram diameter and mounting system, likely end up with a better cylinder that what you started with.   Other than poor mfg. you must have water mixed with your hydro fluid to get a pitted ram. Never store unit with ram extended.



Could water work its way into the system if I was splitting in the rain? While I've always stored it inside with the ram retracted I have split some wood while it was drizzling before.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> Was the ram left extended for long periods of storage?
> If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.



Pretty sure it must have been minor pitting due to the way I stored it and I honestly never noticed any pitting. The shop seemed to think the pitting might have caused the seal failure . . . now I'm kinda wondering if it might have been the other way around . . . the seal failure leading to the pitting.


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## Ashful (Sep 25, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> Pretty sure it must have been minor pitting due to the way I stored it and I honestly never noticed any pitting. The shop seemed to think the pitting might have caused the seal failure . . . now I'm kinda wondering if it might have been the other way around . . . the seal failure leading to the pitting.



Seal failure should not lead to pitting, the shop likely has the correct diagnosis. The only question is whether the pitting is so bad that it can’t be cleaned up sufficiently to work awhile longer with a new seal.

Having done this on loader cylinders, I’d just pull that rod, wet sand it with very fine SiC paper (up thru very fine 3000 - 6000 grits) to clean and polish it, slap new seals on that bad boy, and put it back to work. This is a one-evening job, after the kids are in bed.


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## salecker (Sep 25, 2019)

Probably just a cheep ram to begin with.
I have a lot of old equipment,my one loader is from 1958 my family had owned it since 83 and have never had a ram issue,some of the rams are exposed no matter how you leave it.Water should not hurt the ram,they are chromed like a bumper,which don't rust if they are well made.


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## blades (Sep 26, 2019)

Most likely poor mfg in chicom territories.    insufficient prep work before chroming  would be my first guess, 2nd would be the composition of the underlying material.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 28, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> Could water work its way into the system if I was splitting in the rain? While I've always stored it inside with the ram retracted I have split some wood while it was drizzling before.


Im thinking that a horizontal ram with the fittings pointed upwards becomes a reservoir for water, if water is in the system. 
 I guess running the ram in horizontal postion or keeping the fluid above 212 degrees can help remove that water.
When I moded my horizontal until, (vertical fittings in uncovered service/storage for 35? years) there was no water in the bottom, but there was a dirty/sludge like material I knew I wanted out of that cylinder.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 28, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> ........If there is minor pitting I dont see why a new flexible seal wouldnt correct most, if not all, problems.


I recently picked up an old HM salvage unit with oil spewing out of the rod seal. The rod had slight pitting and damage, and some chrome wear. The seal was $60+ ? shipped. The new seal solved all the problems.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 28, 2019)

Given that chrome rod is available off the shelf, I find it difficult to believe that rechroming (and grinding) the ram would be cheaper than making a new one. When I was in the machine shop business, we would never even consider repairing a pitted ram. As someone else mentioned, a ready-made generic cylinder might be cheaper yet. Talk to a hydraulic supply/repair shop yourself.


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## Sawset (Sep 28, 2019)

A couple of observations. Lots of hydraulics spend their entire working lives outdoors, in all kinds of miserable conditions.  I have not seen mentioned - keep the cylinders out of the weather,  or store them retracted -  by contractors or others who I've worked with. No one has instructed "make sure that's retracted when your done". Many of the pcs are 20-60 years old.  We don't make a habit of sending in cylinders for overhaul. Are splitter cylinders different somehow? Are commercial materials more robust, maybe solid stainless vs chromed? Anyway. I can't comment on rebuild or replace, because that's not been an issue up to this point.
Also, hydraulic oils generally operate in the 180deg range. At those temps the water vapor pressure created would be far high enough to drive off any moisture in the system?


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## Ashful (Sep 28, 2019)

Sawset said:


> A couple of observations. Lots of hydraulics spend their entire working lives outdoors, in all kinds of miserable conditions. I have not seen mentioned keep the cylinders out of the weather, or store them retracted by contractors or others who I've worked with. No one has instructed "make sure that's retracted when your done". Many of the pcs are 20-60 years old. We don't make a habit of sending in cylinders for overhaul. Are splitter cylinders different somehow? Are commercial materials more robust, maybe solid stainless vs chromed? Anyway. I can't comment on rebuild or replace, because that's not been an issue up to this point.
> Also, hydraulic oils generally operate in the 180deg range. At those temps the water vapor pressure created would be far high enough to drive off any moisture in the system?



I think there are a few factors at play.

1. Yes, the quality of the rods on a $80k excavator or $60k loader is likely higher than your $900 Chi-com log splitter.

2. Pro equipment is used daily, or nearly so, likely keeping a nice film of oil on those rods. Your log splitter may be used less than a half dozen days per year, plenty of time for weather to beat away any protective film of oil that develops during use.

3. Ref. above usage frequency, when it gets wet or damp, it may not be run to dry it out for days or weeks.

4. I’ve never seen stainless rods, they sound weak. Most rods are carbon steel and hard chromed.

5. A lot of that pro equipment likely does leak a bit, I’ve never seen a loader or backhoe that doesn’t.  Those rods might not be so perfect, after all.  My 30+ year old Deere loader has some rust on the farthest ends of the rods, which never retract onto the cylinder.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 28, 2019)

Cylinder rams are made from 1045/1055 medium carbon steel (so it can be welded) which is hard-chrome plated (Rc 66-72) and ground to a thickness of .0005 - .001 and surface finish of 16 Ra or better. The hard-chrome is primarily for abrasion resistance, rust resistance is just a bonus.




__





						Chrome Plated Steel Bars | Chrome Rod Supplier | Chrome Bar Stock Distributor
					





					teamtubellc.com
				




Likely the Chinese chrome job was not up to the standards required in this country.


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## Sawset (Sep 30, 2019)

MrWhoopee said:


> Cylinder rams are made from 1045/1055 medium carbon steel (so it can be welded) which is hard-chrome plated (Rc 66-72) and ground to a thickness of .0005 - .001 and surface finish of 16 Ra or better. The hard-chrome is primarily for abrasion resistance, rust resistance is just a bonus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ashful said:


> I’ve never seen stainless rods, they sound weak.


There are stainless rods used, mainly in the marine industry.
There are also nichrome coatings used for enhanced corrosion resistance.
Induction case hardening of the rod is available for severe impact conditions, such as in mining or excavating.
But what we do here requires none of those, and as W pointed out, splitter rods are made from 1045 steels and hard chromed for wear and corrosion resistance.
If the conclusion to the op  were to shop for a replacement cylinder, what criteria would be used.  Price - country of origin -  name brand - just a crap shoot>?  Lots to choose from.  Cylinder dia, pressure, extension, mounting would be a given.


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## stovepipemike2 (Oct 2, 2019)

Establish your criteria, buy good quality new-- and never look back.  I think as you are happily splitting on a bright sunny day in October, 10 years from now you won't even remember how much you paid,only what a fine job it is doing.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 17, 2019)

Hi folks. So here's where I'm at.

Option A: A local hydraulic shop looked at the cylinder and rod and despite the local small engine shop's hope that it would be a $200 repair the hydraulic folks say they can repair it with a new rod and sleeve (apparently the sleeve has been "egged out".) Not sure how that happened as I am pretty careful to stop the ram whenever I have a tough piece of wood rather than keeping the pressure on it. Cost: $500-$600

Option B: The small engine shop can order a new cylinder with rod and the seals from MTD. $565 plus $100 or so for shipping.

Option C: Attempt to find cheaper parts on line.

Option D: Purchase a new splitter. $1200


So here's my concerns/thoughts:

Option A: This is a decent amount of money for what is a 10-year old splitter. Reliability is important to me. Would I be spending about half of the cost of a new splitter and then risk failure of the engine or other parts down the road?

Option B: The small engine shop said they have never seen or heard of a splitter cylinder egging out like this. Could it be due to the truncheon mount design . . . could it be a design flaw with MTD parts? I've had good luck with this splitter so far, but I wonder if I go this route will I be in the same boat in another ten years?

Option C: I have no idea of the cost of the parts . . . or what parts I would need . . . and the quality of the parts.

Option D: It's a decent amount of money. I am not opposed to getting a new splitter, but I am not the type of person who buys something new just because it is new and shiny. I would do so if it made sense in terms of reliability.

Thoughts?


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## peakbagger (Oct 17, 2019)

Option E - Look around at Surplus Center for an off the shelf cylinder https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/

Unless MTD has changed the design I would not replace it with the same design.


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## Sawset (Oct 17, 2019)

What do you think is the current resale value on your old unit, as is? Is it usable - .


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## firefighterjake (Oct 17, 2019)

Sawset said:


> What do you think is the current resale value on your old unit, as is? Is it usable - .



And that would be another question.

Right now the rod and cylinder are all apart . . . the hydraulic company takes it apart and gives a free estimate. Putting it back together -- fixed or how it was -- costs. The small engine shop figured I would be $150-$200 just to have the splitter put back together as it was.

Splitter runs . . . now (or would if it is put back together) . . . but there is a pretty decent leak around the seal so one would have to keep an eye on the hydraulic oil levels.


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## Jags (Oct 17, 2019)

Find a suitable replacement cylinder. Put the unit back in action. Ya just wore out the cylinder. It happens.

Now GET BACK to splitt'in wood ya slacker.


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## duramaxman05 (Oct 17, 2019)

Our troy bilt 27ton splitter has a different style cylinder than an ordinary splitter. It is a trunion design also. That may be a little tricky finding a cylinder.  Replacing the cylinder is a easy DIY project. No need to pay a shop to do it. Best thing to do is get the part number of cylinder and Google it. That's what I do with a lot of parts to try to save people money.  If you need help finding one let me know. Also there should be a model and serial number on the splitter somewhere. You will need them.


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## salecker (Oct 17, 2019)

You should be able to find a ram for less.
I bought 2 new ones in Canada for less than $500.


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## Ashful (Oct 17, 2019)

I’m with Jags and peakbagger. There are many sources for cylinders of most of the designs common to big box store log splitters, and surpluscenter is a decent place to start that hunt.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 17, 2019)

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Log and wood splitter cylinders at a LOW $ PRICE  FROM SPLITez



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## VirginiaIron (Oct 17, 2019)

Northern tool For comparison, 4" x 30" x 3kpsi $260 with free shipping

content://media/external/file/66193


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## blades (Oct 17, 2019)

prices have likely gone up a bit but a 24" stroke 2" ram 4" tie rod cylinder at 3000 psi used to be around $250 US  ( this would be 1/2" ports)

That MTD price is a gouge. ( but not unusual)  I would look at Prince cylinders for starters.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 18, 2019)

Or, if you are close to a HD or TSC, you can go new for about $999.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 18, 2019)

Or wait a few weeks until black Friday and pick one up for $7-800...


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## Ashful (Oct 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Or wait a few weeks until black Friday and pick one up for $7-800...



$700? Really? I can’t remember ever seeing a decent splitter nearly that cheap. Best price I’ve ever seen on a Speeco 22 is $899.99.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 18, 2019)

Ashful said:


> $700? Really? I can’t remember ever seeing a decent splitter nearly that cheap. Best price I’ve ever seen on a Speeco 22 is $899.99.


You are too close to big money metropolis area...around here things are cheaper...TSC, Menards, and Rural King of Ohio have $7-800 splitters on black Friday quite often...22-25 tons models...TSC uses the Countyline that they normally sell. Same with the other stores, sale on the splitters they normally carry, not a "BF special" (read: built extra cheap just for the sale)
I paid $699 for my Champion 23 ton after sale and rebates...this was 5-6 years ago, but prices haven't changed much since then. Been a good splitter too, only repair I've had is to weld up the chinsey log racks (came with them) after I set too many monster rounds on them (and probably not gently either)


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## Ashful (Oct 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> You are too close to big money metropolis area...around here things are cheaper...TSC, Menards, and Rural King of Ohio have $7-800 splitters on black Friday quite often...22-25 tons models...TSC uses the Countyline that they normally sell.


I have to admit I haven’t looked all that closely at them, since I bought mine a half dozen years ago, but isn’t the CountyLine just TSCs latest re-badging and paint job on the same Speeco-built splitters they used to sell in red paint under the Huskee brand name?


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## brenndatomu (Oct 18, 2019)

I'm not so sure that it is, those older machines used an I beam, no? The Countyline has a fabricated beam, as do many of the newer models (my Champion too)


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## Ashful (Oct 18, 2019)

I wasn’t sure, so I just looked it up. Beam and frame are identical, but they changed the engine configuration.


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## blades (Oct 18, 2019)

differance might be in the pump drive vert/horz. mount.


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## Ashful (Oct 18, 2019)

blades said:


> differance might be in the pump drive vert/horz. mount.



Yeah, I think it is. The old design used a vertical shaft engine, which really limits engine options, and a custom pump mount welded into the engine mounting plate. I didn’t really look at the pump mount on the new design, but I suspect it’s the more standard cast mount that puts the pump directly onto the engine, rather than using the splitter frame to carry each separately.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 19, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I wasn’t sure, so I just looked it up. Beam and frame are identical, but they changed the engine configuration.



Was at the Amish shop today and the owner said his supplier told him that Blount (Oregon/Speeco) no longer supplies Tractor Supply with splitters as I had mentioned the County Line looking very similar to the Oregon/Speeco/Huskee. He said Oregon's "new" or at least newly branded Power-Pro splitters are the old Speeco/Huskee splitters since they had apparently lost their contract with TSC. I wonder (if this is all true) if perhaps TSC may be manufacturing copies of the Speecos with a Chinese manufacturer now . . . just thinking out loud.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 19, 2019)

OK, so here is where I am. By weekend end I should make a decision.

Option A: Buy a new cylinder/ram from Surplus Center and have the Amish shop put everything back in working order. With shipping I am looking at $337 for the ram. Amish shop said I could figure on another $125 for labor (I had them work on the engine as well) and new hydraulic oil. Total cost: $462

Option B: The Amish shop sells Power-Pro wood splitters from Oregon. I can get a 27 ton splitter with a Honda engine (consumer grade) for $1,150.

So here's my thinking.

Option A is cheaper . . . which is appealing to me. However, at that amount I am close to half the cost of a new splitter. I question whether fixing the splitter up and then potentially having the pump, engine or valve assembly go on this 10-year-old machine makes sense (although the Amish shop said the valve assembly and pump are cheap and do not tend to break). The shop said repowering the splitter may be $250-$350 when you factor in labor (he said the way the shaft is set up does tend to limit the choice of engines.) Our mechanic at work says Briggs engines (on the current splitter) are not robust as they once were (the Amish shop agreed, with the exception of the Vanguard line). So I know the engine could go on for several more years or it could die in a few weeks . . . and I value reliability in most everything I own whether it be an appliance, ATV, car, etc.

Option B is more expensive . . . but starting out with something new which should last at least another 10 yeas is appealing. I also have to admit I like the idea of the Honda engine, full beam, slightly faster cycle time and non-trunnion set up of the hydraulic ram. But that said . . . I have never been one that is all about getting stuff that is new and shiny. Again, I am thinking in part of the reliability.

I honestly am waffling . . . one minute I am thinking of Option A . . . another minute I am thinking Option B.


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## Sawset (Oct 19, 2019)

Theisens.
Flavor of the day.
$899
Identical to TSC25T


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 19, 2019)

"... I have never been one that is all about getting stuff that is new and shiny. Again, I am thinking in part of the reliability. ...."
I would measure your piston, pins, hydraulic fittings, and order a comperable one online. Purchase or borrow some wrenches and replace it yourself- or with the help of a neighbor. Very easy to change out.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 19, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> "... I have never been one that is all about getting stuff that is new and shiny. Again, I am thinking in part of the reliability. ...."
> I would measure your piston, pins, hydraulic fittings, and order a comperable one online. Purchase or borrow some wrenches and replace it yourself- or with the help of a neighbor. Very easy to change out.



Cost of the ram/cylinder is $337 with shipping. Another $125 as I am having the Amish shop work on the engine and fill it with hydraulic oil as well.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 19, 2019)

I saw your comment on the work on the engine but I figured that was basic service, and hydraulic oil change, maybe I read it wrong. If there is also a problem with the engine, buy new and sell the old unit as is for $400 or whatever you can get for it and put that money towards a new splitter.


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## Ashful (Oct 20, 2019)

Valves almost never fail. You can break them, such as retracting a split stick to the wedge into the valve (DAMHIKT), but they’re basically forever components at any consumer usage rate. Pumps are too cheap to even be a factor, and the frame is forever, unless you leave it uncovered outdoors. So, for $460 you have a new splitter with a nicely broken in engine. Why are you assuming the newest Chinese junk would be more reliable or long-lasting?

I’m all for staying with the devil you know, unless it’s completely beyond the cost of replacement. That’s probably why I’m still with the same crazy woman after 20 years. [emoji14]


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## Jags (Oct 20, 2019)

I am still trying to figure out why they are charging so much for a 4 minute cylinder swap and a $30 jug of hydro juice. Unless they flat fee $125 per hour with a one hour min????  This is literally a 15 min job out the door.


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## salecker (Oct 23, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I’m all for staying with the devil you know, unless it’s completely beyond the cost of replacement. That’s probably why I’m still with the same crazy woman after 20 years. [emoji14]


Give it a few years,mine left after 23. After about 2 weeks of feeling sorry about the whole mess i started to live again.Now i wish i could go back and give her the boot about 16 years ago when the crazyness started.I always hoped i could help her...


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## firefighterjake (Oct 24, 2019)

Jags said:


> I am still trying to figure out why they are charging so much for a 4 minute cylinder swap and a $30 jug of hydro juice. Unless they flat fee $125 per hour with a one hour min????  This is literally a 15 min job out the door.



They've also been working on my engine which died.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 24, 2019)

Well . . . I'm actually leaning now towards getting a new splitter. 

Here's my reasoning . . . and yes. . . it may not make sense economically.

Buying a replacement hydraulic ram would be cheaper . . . and probably easier . . . but I am questioning how long the old Briggs Quantum engine will last. I don't have an hour meter or even know how many cords it has processed in the last 10 years or so and while it is still (now that it has been repaired) still chugging along, I really don't want to buy a ram and then in another few months or few years (who really knows how long) have to go through the time, money and hassle of putting a new engine on it. 

I also kinda wonder what caused the cylinder to egg out . . . was it inferior metal or an inferior design? I know some of the MTD trunnion mount splitters a while back had some issues with the cylinders. I never had the issues of the trunnions cracking, but I've often wondered if the trunnion design doesn't put undue stress on the cylinder . . . not to mention a good portion of the rear of the cylinder is left hanging with no support as this is a half beam design.

The splitter I am seriously considering is the Power Pro from Oregon which I am told is the old Speeco/Huskee design. I like the full beam design and set up of the hydraulic cylinder as it appears as though changing this out would be much cheaper should I ever have to do so as it has more of a "conventional" set up vs. the trunnion design. It has a Honda engine (although it is the GC, not GX version) . . . but with the horizontal shaft vs. vertical shaft it looks like I would have a lot more engine options to choose from when I need to re-power it. Finally, it's a small thing, but I have been told this splitter sits a bit higher than the MTD . . . which would perhaps mean I am hunched over a little less. 

I cannot complain about the MTD . . . it has served me well for 10 years and I assume if I threw on a new ram it should last a few more years barring the engine dying . . . but I also kinda figure I got my money's worth and am willing to get something newer and perhaps a bit better.


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## maple1 (Oct 24, 2019)

Have you factored in selling the old one - if you get the new one?

Not sure what you'd get for it, would depend on who comes along & what they feel like spending. But the way used splitters are around here - you'd get over half of what a new one would cost.


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## peakbagger (Oct 24, 2019)

It is surprising the optimistic pricing folks asked for used beat up splitters. There is one sitting on the highway near me that has been for sale for over a year. it looks like light duty and very well used and they are asking $800. I picked up new TSC 25 which looks beefier for $200 more. By the way, there is big "H" weld reinforcement on the back side of the stop on mine  which implies to me that its Huskee with TSC paint?

The one for sale is an older design where the beam is supported at the axle. Its a backbreaker as everything gets done hunched over. The TSC 25 is set up at normal height so I am standing straight when operating it. Sure it means lifting the wood higher from the ground but I normally split solo pulling the rounds right out of the truck. I also can make a much bigger pile of split wood before I have to stack. That means it makes sense to split a pile of wood and then turn the engine off while I stack.


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## Ashful (Oct 24, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> there is big "H" weld reinforcement on the back side of the stop on mine which implies to me that its Huskee with TSC paint?


I would be surprised if that’s the case. Huskee was just TSC’s made up brand name for the splitters they were buying from Speeco, at that time, as I understood it.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 24, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Have you factored in selling the old one - if you get the new one?
> 
> Not sure what you'd get for it, would depend on who comes along & what they feel like spending. But the way used splitters are around here - you'd get over half of what a new one would cost.



I've always had good luck in selling items at a fair and decent price vs. trying to get a top dollar for an item and then either holding on to it forever or having a bazillion tire kickers look at it before finally someone finally makes the buy.

I was thinking of selling it as is with an asking price of $350, allowing them to dicker me down to $300 or $275. The cost of the new ram will be $337. Add in some hydraulic oil and for around $650 someone will have a splitter. That may be overly optimistic, but then again I've been seeing rusty, home-built splitters sitting a foot off the ground with an asking price of $350-$450.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 24, 2019)

Ashful said:


> $700? Really? I can’t remember ever seeing a decent splitter nearly that cheap. Best price I’ve ever seen on a Speeco 22 is $899.99.


Here ya go...and it isn't even black Friday yet! 


			https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-power-equipment/log-splitters-chippers/brute-reg-22-ton-208cc-gas-log-splitter/ytl-015-691/p-1459185168444-c-10115.htm?tid=-3009975909891250014&ipos=2


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## Sawset (Oct 24, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Here ya go...and it isn't even black Friday yet!
> 
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-power-equipment/log-splitters-chippers/brute-reg-22-ton-208cc-gas-log-splitter/ytl-015-691/p-1459185168444-c-10115.htm?tid=-3009975909891250014&ipos=2


Some Assembly Required


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## brenndatomu (Oct 24, 2019)

Sawset said:


> Some Assembly Required


Yeah, that was another advantage...my $699 Champion from RKO came assembled and running.
These need the wheels put on and the front part of the hitch bolted on IIRC...and fluids...hydraulic oil is another $30 for a 5 gallon bucket.


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## Ashful (Oct 24, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Here ya go...and it isn't even black Friday yet!
> 
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-power-equipment/log-splitters-chippers/brute-reg-22-ton-208cc-gas-log-splitter/ytl-015-691/p-1459185168444-c-10115.htm?tid=-3009975909891250014&ipos=2



That’s cheap! What’s the verdict on that wimpy looking cylinder mount, though? I’ve never owned a machine that didn’t have a full beam, with the cylinder clevis-mounted at the far end.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 24, 2019)

Ashful said:


> That’s cheap! What’s the verdict on that wimpy looking cylinder mount, though? I’ve never owned a machine that didn’t have a full beam, with the cylinder clevis-mounted at the far end.


That's the same setup my Champion 23T has...no issues with it so far...been 5-6 years now...probably split at least 25-30 cord. ..and some nasty/gnarly stuff too!


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## maple1 (Oct 24, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> That's the same setup my Champion 23T has...no issues with it so far...been 5-6 years now...probably split at least 25-30 cord. ..and some nasty/gnarly stuff too!



And similar to my Wallenstein made Surge Master. Don't recall ever hearing or reading of any issues with those.


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## Jags (Oct 25, 2019)

Yeah, there was a time that the trunion mounts were getting tore off the side of the cylinder, but haven't heard of that issue for a long time now.

The welded "H" on the back of the foot plate was to address the foot plate snapping in half.  That is also an issue I no longer hear about.


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## maple1 (Oct 25, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> I've always had good luck in selling items at a fair and decent price vs. trying to get a top dollar for an item and then either holding on to it forever or having a bazillion tire kickers look at it before finally someone finally makes the buy.
> 
> I was thinking of selling it as is with an asking price of $350, allowing them to dicker me down to $300 or $275. The cost of the new ram will be $337. Add in some hydraulic oil and for around $650 someone will have a splitter. That may be overly optimistic, but then again I've been seeing rusty, home-built splitters sitting a foot off the ground with an asking price of $350-$450.



Somebody out there might have a ram kicking around. Would be a super deal for them.


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## Ashful (Oct 25, 2019)

Jags said:


> Yeah, there was a time that the trunion mounts were getting tore off the side of the cylinder, but haven't heard of that issue for a long time now.
> 
> The welded "H" on the back of the foot plate was to address the foot plate snapping in half. That is also an issue I no longer hear about.



Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, there was a time when you wouldn’t want to touch anything without a full beam and clevis-mounted cylinder.

I wonder how these balance? Another advantage of the full beam and clevis-mounted cylinder is that extra half beam puts a lot of extra weight on the tongue, to the point where the splitter ain’t tipping with all but the heaviest rounds I can lift onto it.

I’d guess you could achieve the same effect by moving the pivot a little closer to the foot plate, but unless you also positioned the pivot farther below the beam, that could reduce horizontal beam height if you needed the thing to work in a vertical position as well.


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## triptester (Oct 26, 2019)

The Wallenstein splitters use a front mount cylinder not a trunnion mount. When considering beam length shorter beams flex less making the system stronger when using the same size beam.


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## Ashful (Oct 26, 2019)

triptester said:


> The Wallenstein splitters use a front mount cylinder not a trunnion mount. When considering beam length shorter beams flex less making the system stronger when using the same size beam.



The shorter beam will flex less under the same moment, but moving the mount forward to half length also roughly doubles the moment (actually, according to tan(y/x), if you care). It also puts more stress on the welds. Likely not an issue either way, just pointing out the physics of it.


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## maple1 (Oct 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, there was a time when you wouldn’t want to touch anything without a full beam and clevis-mounted cylinder.
> 
> I wonder how these balance? Another advantage of the full beam and clevis-mounted cylinder is that extra half beam puts a lot of extra weight on the tongue, to the point where the splitter ain’t tipping with all but the heaviest rounds I can lift onto it.
> 
> I’d guess you could achieve the same effect by moving the pivot a little closer to the foot plate, but unless you also positioned the pivot farther below the beam, that could reduce horizontal beam height if you needed the thing to work in a vertical position as well.



You put the engine out front near the tongue. Out of harms way. Where it should be.


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## Ashful (Oct 26, 2019)

maple1 said:


> You put the engine out front near the tongue. Out of harms way. Where it should be.


... but that's where they already are, even on the old full-beam Speeco's!  See pic I posted of the old Huskee on the prior page.

I guess you could scoot it even farther forward, but that would at least somewhat increase the cost and complexity of mounting it, as most currently just use a gusset plate welded to the forward face of the axle tank.


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## maple1 (Oct 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> ... but that's where they already are, even on the old full-beam Speeco's!  See pic I posted of the old Huskee on the prior page.
> 
> I guess you could scoot it even farther forward, but that would at least somewhat increase the cost and complexity of mounting it, as most currently just use a gusset plate welded to the forward face of the axle tank.



That's in front of the tank, but not out front. Still in harms way, also.

Like this: (if I can get this pic posted)


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## Ashful (Oct 26, 2019)

Got it. Nice concept! What’s the cost on that unit, tho?


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## maple1 (Oct 26, 2019)

Been a while since I looked. Was around $2k. Canadiabucks.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2019)

Does that unit have some sort of adjustable return-stop?
	

		
			
		

		
	






Optional "Stroke Limiter" @4m38s


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## maple1 (Oct 27, 2019)

Looks like it. That is just an image I grabbed off the net. Same splitter as mine but newer and updated. Also has better hose routing than mine.


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## Ashful (Oct 27, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Been a while since I looked. Was around $2k. Canadiabucks.


Figured that was the case.  Keep in mind we've been debating other splitters < $1000.  If you double the budget, all sorts of improvements can be made on the design.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 28, 2019)

Update: On Saturday I stopped by another local shop and ordered a new 27 ton Power Pro (Oregon) splitter. The owner said he was pretty sure it came with a log table and a four way head which is actually pretty exciting to me as I was hoping at the very least to just get a log table. 

Later that day I re-assembled the non-functioning ram back on to the old splitter, hooked everything up, cleaned up the splitter debris and then posted an ad on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist.

I had a feeling it would sell pretty easily . . . but I had no idea of just how easy it would be to sell. I decided to ask $300 originally and could go to $250. My wife and I have done OK in life and folks have helped us out along the way so our philosophy has never been that we need to get the absolute best price when selling. I also factored in the price of a new ram at $337 and figured that for $600-$650 a used, 9 year old splitter is a fair deal -- especially when looking at ads on line where folks were asking $800-$1400 for used splitters of the same type (MTD, Cub Cadet and Troy Bilt) and rusty, home-built splitters had a price tag of $350-$450. 

As usual I did get a couple of "Will you take a trade?" queries . . . I rarely do trades, but sometimes ask just to see what ridiculous item they think might entice me . . . I did not do so this time. 

I also got the usual "What is the absolute lowest you will take despite the fact I have not seen this in person" questions with offers of $100-$200.

However, most of the folks responding simply wanted to know about the issue with the ram and seemed decent enough.

One of the first guys to answer was local so I offered him first dibs. However, when he showed up driving a 1990s vintage Chevy Malibu or similar sedan I kinda figured he would not be buying. First words out of his mouth were "I don't have the money since I'm on low income and I'm what you would call a tire kicker." He liked the splitter and said to give him a call if it didn't sell as he would try to get the money together in a week. I told him that I literally had a page and a half of names -- something like 28 or 29 names of other interested buyers so I doubted I would still have it by week's end.

I then went back and sent out replies to other folks who were within 30 or 40 minutes of my home, figuring they would be more likely to make the trek vs. someone living 2 hours away. 

A guy from a few towns over responded right away that he would be right over . . . and true to his word he was. He looked it over, I fired up the engine, he took a closer look at the ram and said he would purchase it. No dickering at all. When I mentioned the no dickering, he said he knew it was a decent deal and I no doubt had plenty of other folks who would be interested . . . all in all . . . a pretty easy sale. 

As I told him . . . whenever I've sold used stuff on line I consider it a good deal when both the buyer and seller figure they got a good deal.


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## WiscWoody (Nov 5, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I would be surprised if that’s the case. Huskee was just TSC’s made up brand name for the splitters they were buying from Speeco, at that time, as I understood it.


Yeah my Forest King Pro 37 ton splitter made by YTL International Inc. (not he other Forest King splitter I had pictured below) has a H on the back of the stop also. And it has nothing to do with Huskee.


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## WiscWoody (Nov 5, 2019)

Good you got s new splitter, when I put my nearly new 22 ton splitter on CL for $500 I had a lot of responses  in the first two hours it was listed and the guy who called first came and got it but he did ask if I’d take less but I said no- that I had a bunch of others willing to come and get it too. I think some just have to ask. I put a hour meter in it and it only had 35 hours in it so I think I sold it for a fair price.


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## Sawset (Nov 5, 2019)

WiscWoody said:


> Yeah my Forest King splitter made by YTL International Inc. has a H on the back of the stop also. And it has nothing to do with Huskee.


As well as a bunch of others by YTL. It's funny how a Chevy used to be a Chevy, with a following and brand loyalty. Now dicy at best, or nothing at all.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 6, 2019)

Update: So last weekend I ran the new Power Pro splitter for maybe 7 or 8 hours.

Overall I like it. It "sits" higher so I find I am not stooped over as much . . . of course it also means I have to lift the bucked wood a bit higher as well.

I haven't tried going vertical yet (with apologies to Backwoods Savage) . . . but that will happen soon as I have some large pine to split up at some point this Fall. 

I do have two minor complaints.

1) The Honda engine sometimes "bogs" down when the ram is retracting and before it fully retracts I grab the valve control and go forward as I am ready to split the next piece. It doesn't always happen, but happens quite often as it will bog down slightly (as if shifting into a lower gear so to speak) before ramping back up again. Not sure if this is an issue or just the nature of this particular beast.

2) The wedge runs along channels set along the beam . . . and at the end of the beam sits the flat. The splitter does have two ovals for splitter debris to fall through which works OK most of the time . . . unless I am working with a wood like pine which tends to have a lot of the bark fall off in which case it builds up. 

Again, minor complaints.


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## WiscWoody (Nov 6, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> Update: So last weekend I ran the new Power Pro splitter for maybe 7 or 8 hours.
> 
> Overall I like it. It "sits" higher so I find I am not stooped over as much . . . of course it also means I have to lift the bucked wood a bit higher as well.
> 
> ...


My splitter has the same channels and oval holes at the end of the beam  from the sounds of it and I’m often quickly throwing out the bigger pieces of bark and splinters out of the end and brushing out the fingers stuff down the holes with my gloved left hand. There gets to be a good sized pile of stuff underneath those holes after some time. The corners of the back plate get jammed up,with wood after some time and I was goi g to clean them out with a big flat blade screwdriver a week ago I couldn’t get the stuff to budge it was in there so tight. No big deal it doesn’t hurt anything I guess. I’d have to loosen it with a drill if I wanted to get it out. I never run my splitter in vertical position. If I get a round too heavy for me I use the skid splitter or have someone help me hoist the heavy round up onto the splitter.


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## FuzzyOne (Nov 8, 2019)

If your engine bogs while the ram is retracting, make sure there is no binding with the wedge. My splitter started doing the same thing last year. I removed the wedge and discovered a piece of wood had become wedged under the plate that caused resistance.  Just a thought.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 8, 2019)

FuzzyOne said:


> If your engine bogs while the ram is retracting, make sure there is no binding with the wedge. My splitter started doing the same thing last year. I removed the wedge and discovered a piece of wood had become wedged under the plate that caused resistance.  Just a thought.



It occasionally bogs down when I go from retracting to moving forward . . . no issues with it bogging down while retracting.


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