# Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but news from Harman



## kinsmanstoves (Feb 3, 2015)

Harman pellet central heat, PF120, PB105 & HydroFlex60, are being discontinued, last day to place an order is March 6, 2015.

That is all, carry on.

Eric


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## Irish916 (Feb 3, 2015)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Harman pellet central heat, PF120, PB105 & HydroFlex60, are being discontinued, last day to place an order is March 6, 2015.
> 
> That is all, carry on.
> 
> Eric


I was actually considering one of these central heat sources. Wonder what happened? Low sales?


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## velvetfoot (Feb 3, 2015)

Are new central heating product going to be introduced?


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## kinsmanstoves (Feb 3, 2015)

Looks like they are done with central heating.  They "transferred" all the coal and wood units last year.

Eric


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## Bioburner (Feb 3, 2015)

And discontinued the PC45 multifuel stove


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## fmsm (Feb 3, 2015)

Any word on the "new" digital circuit board?


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## elevenMracing (Feb 3, 2015)

That sucks.  Causes me great concern about parts availability in the future seeing as I bought a PF120  less than a year ago.


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## rona (Feb 3, 2015)

I would guess they are phasing out US production of all stoves as they can be made cheaper at other countries.  Looking at one company that has had 2 recent glass explosions  with the same model leads me to suspect quality control issues abroad.  This same company bought out Harman so look for cheaper copies of a proven product resulting in more profit for the mega companies pockets.


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## Bioburner (Feb 3, 2015)

Probably next up is customer service from abroad too, reading from a manual about something the reader has no knowledge of.


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## moey (Feb 3, 2015)

Guess they could not get the burn pot fixed..


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 3, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Probably next up is customer service from abroad too, reading from a manual about something the reader has no knowledge of.


And speaking to you over a very bad connection in Tagalog/English.

Time to seriously look at a central coal stoker, Irish!  You'll save mucho!


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## MuchoBueno (Feb 3, 2015)

Yes? What? I'm here. Oh never mind.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 3, 2015)

"Built to a standard, not a price." Well, until 2008.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 3, 2015)

Do not, I repeat do not caqll your credit card issuer if it's Mastercard during regular business hours....  Tagalong English is the language of the day.....  Same with Pay-Pal I might add.

Thats too bad about Hardon.....  oops, I mean Harman.

I knew they sold the coal business off and now the rest?  Sounnds like more unemployment in Pennsylvaina.

I feel a Hitzer in the near future, or a Keystoker.  Hitzer is handy for me plus there is no dealers close by so I can buy factory direct.


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## MuchoBueno (Feb 4, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Do not, I repeat do not caqll your credit card issuer if it's Mastercard during regular business hours....  Tagalong English is the language of the day.....  Same with Pay-Pal I might add.
> 
> Thats too bad about Hardon.....  oops, I mean Harman.
> 
> ...


Thank the LORD mine is running at or near specs.


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## Cory S (Feb 4, 2015)

With the technology and advancement of propane/NG/oil fired boilers/furnaces today, with some up to 98% efficiency, there really isn't a market for a pellet furnace anymore.  Their furnaces have probably always been a low in sales product.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 4, 2015)

Cory S said:


> With the technology and advancement of propane/NG/oil fired boilers/furnaces today, with some up to 98% efficiency, there really isn't a market for a pellet furnace anymore.  Their furnaces have probably always been a low in sales product.


 
I'm on the fence with your comment.  It would depend entirely on the cost per therm of the fuel source at the point of use, moreso than the efficiency, but it could be that they know something about the current pellet exporting to the EU that the little people (us) don't.  In other words, pellet prices could be going way up.  That would place them on equal or more in price to the point of use fuel and make a central solid fuel furnace a poor investment.

With most people (me included) this isn't about going green, it's about being frugal.  Hell with being 'green'.


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## kinsmanstoves (Feb 4, 2015)

I like anthracite coal but before I spend the money I want to know I will be able to burn coal in the future.  Look at all the power plants having to switch to NG.

Eric


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 4, 2015)

Fair statement but I don't see the central gummit putting all the coal producers out of business (well, lets say maybe not)........  I do know that corn is here to stay and thats fine with me.


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## bdud (Feb 4, 2015)

I noticed that Maine in their pellet boiler incentive program do not list the Harman boilers. Some of Maine's requirements are..

1. The system must include a bulk fill system that would provide continuous heat without human intervention for 2 weeks (estimated at 1 ton pellet capacity), or has a minimum 500 pound capacity fill bin and a permanently installed back-up heating system (propane, oil, natural gas) that automatically switches fuel sources and provides continuous central heat to the home using the same thermostatic control and heating distribution system as the pellet boiler if the biomass heating system runs out of pellets, and2. The new system or existing back-up system (when one exists) must provide heat in areas of plumbing, which will maintain the temperature of at least 50 degrees Fahrenheit for an extended period of time (2 weeks or longer) without human intervention, and3. Meet applicable Federal, state, and local requirements, including but not limited to emissions limits, nuisance limits, and siting limits, and 

To meet energy efficient standards, Pellet boilers must be:
1. Listed or certified as a White Tag pellet boiler model on EPA’s List of Phase 2 Qualified Cleaner Hydronic Heaters. http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html.This certification ensures that these heaters have been tested by an EPA accredited laboratory using test method M28 WHH *, and reviewed and qualified by EPA
http://www.efficiencymaine.com/docs/Eligible-Pellet-Boiler-Criteria-and-List.pdf
I believe the Harman bulk feeder is 1500lbs, so maybe too small and I believe maintenance is required more frequently than every 2 weeks.
With their boilers been excluded maybe they getting out of this market or will bring in new models that meet this criteria?


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## Big papa (Feb 4, 2015)

I was in lowes the other day looking at an englunder and found a tooth in the hopper?


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 4, 2015)

With their boilers been excluded maybe they getting out of this market or will bring in new models that meet this criteria?

I soubt it.  Main is a very small percentage of their business, come to think about it, it's a small state....


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 4, 2015)

Big papa said:


> I was in lowes the other day looking at an englunder and found a tooth in the hopper?


Tooth?  Animal, human or machine?

I don't make it a habit of peering in hoppers in a box store, sounds like a Walmart video to me......lol


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## wil lanfear (Feb 4, 2015)

moey said:


> Guess they could not get the burn pot fixed..


 IMHO, the burnpot bubble issue has been resolved. The burnpot with the vertical slits on the burning surface resolved this issue for me and many others I suspect.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 4, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> Do not, I repeat do not caqll your credit card issuer if it's Mastercard during regular business hours....  Tagalong English is the language of the day.....  Same with Pay-Pal I might add.
> 
> Thats too bad about Hardon.....  oops, I mean Harman.
> 
> ...


And Hitzers are built like brick #$% houses!  Heavy as heck with HEAVY gauge steel.  Keystokers are great as well as leisureline.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Feb 4, 2015)

wil lanfear said:


> IMHO, the burnpot bubble issue has been resolved. The burnpot with the vertical slits on the burning surface resolved this issue for me and many others I suspect.



Yes, my dealer installed the latest burnpot over the summer and it seems to be holding up well. The previous two bubbled and cracked.

So they ironed out the last bug and now they're discontinuing. Sounds like General Motors.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 4, 2015)

kinsmanstoves said:


> I like anthracite coal but before I spend the money I want to know I will be able to burn coal in the future.  Look at all the power plants having to switch to NG.
> 
> Eric


That's all bituminous coal, not clean burning anthracite.  Two entirely different animals.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 4, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> That's all bituminous coal, not clean burning anthracite.  Two entirely different animals.


 
Power plants burn the cheapest, high sulfur 'coal' they can get.  I use the word coal loosely.  Remember, I live near one of the largest coal fired plants in the country, Detriot Edison's Monroe Steam Plant on Lake Erie and just south of the DTE plant is the Consumers Energy's JR Whiting Steam Plant, also coal fired.  Whiting is being decomissioned but DTE isn't,  In fact DTE just spent millions on scrubbers (that I get to pay for...)

I see the coal trains coming north constantly and the coal is more dirt than coal, nothing like you'd burn in a coal stove.  Power plants pulverize the 'coal' and blow it into the furnaces that heat the boilers that make the steam to spin the turbines that send electricity to my home....  That I pay dearly for.....

Their coal is nothing like the coal you (and possibly me) burn.

One of our club members is the second shift operator at DTE and I've been able to get a peek inside.  Pretty interesting place.  Pretty big coal stoves too.

There are some interesting U-Tube vids on power plant biolers that give you an idea of their size....


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## iceguy4 (Feb 22, 2015)

wil lanfear said:


> IMHO, the burnpot bubble issue has been resolved. The burnpot with the vertical slits on the burning surface resolved this issue for me and many others I suspect.


 Me as well. I had my burnpot out last night....Purfect just like it was when I installed it...11 tons ago


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