# Uh oh...what's this?!



## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Ok, Dec 31st here...probably time I come clean.
There is a new furnace in my life...she's a real hottie too...I even let 'er move in back in October!
Here's a pic...can anybody ID? (you guys that have the inside scoop here already stay outta this lil game! ) 
More pics to come...if needed.


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## laynes69 (Dec 31, 2018)

I know....I know..lol


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> I know....I know..lol


Sure? 
(you are probably on the right track though...just in the "wrong seat" )


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## laynes69 (Dec 31, 2018)

Maybe I don't know....the red threw me off? Now I'm curious....


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 31, 2018)

I want to see more pics of the red!    He's rockin' a Hot Blast.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I want to see more pics of the red!


Yes...the lil red dress is "oooo la la"!


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 31, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> I know....I know..lol




I think I know too, but with how often he changes furnaces I'm not really sure one minute to the next!


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## Case1030 (Dec 31, 2018)

Looks like one of those fancy European Red dressed down drafters I've been hearing about.


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## maple1 (Dec 31, 2018)

Is that Hy-C Red?


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## Case1030 (Dec 31, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Is that Hy-C Red?



Found it in the dump.


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## sloeffle (Dec 31, 2018)

Does the door have a window ?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Is that Hy-C Red?





Case1030 said:


> Found it in the dump.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)

Looks to well built to be a HY-C. Napoleon?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

sloeffle said:


> Does the door have window ?


Nope


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Case1030 said:


> Found it in the dump.


That made me chuckle a lot at first...but the more I thought about it...with the track record the new HY-C furnaces have, finding one at the dump is a real possibility!  


Mrpelletburner said:


> Napoleon


Nope...


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 31, 2018)

sloeffle said:


> Does the door have window ?





brenndatomu said:


> Nope...



Well, we can definitely say this furnace did NOT come from Highbeam's place then.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I think I know too, but with how often he changes furnaces I'm not really sure one minute to the next!


Thinking about putting a rail system in...and quick connects on everything...


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## 3fordasho (Dec 31, 2018)

Comes from Northern MN I bet...


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)

Ok... US stove, Ashley Stove or a Brunco?


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)

Benjamin or a Tarm?

The door hinges are throwing me off. Atoms nothing appears to be welded, all bolted.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)

Johnson?


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)




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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Johnson?


Big Johnson Wood Furnace...when you really need to make 'em hot!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> View attachment 237120


?


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 31, 2018)

Throwing out stove names.. did I nail it?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Throwing out stove names.. did I nail it?


Nnnnope, not yet...better reload your clip...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Another pic...


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## Mojappa (Dec 31, 2018)

Edit: NM, already suggested


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## Highbeam (Dec 31, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Well, we can definitely say this furnace did NOT come from Highbeam's place then.



It’s a drawback but if the rest of the package makes up for it then I could live with a windowless furnace. 

For this thread... I see the word “hot” below the loading door. Pretty much English. 

Why even have a door so big when the top half is blocked with a steel plate?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 31, 2018)

Highbeam said:


> Why even have a door so big when the top half is blocked with a steel plate?


A swinging plate allows a lot more wood to be loaded than a 8" tall door opening does...but still blocks most of the smoke that rolls out the door without it. I HATE a smoky smell in the house!
By the time she needs to be fed again, that plate is usually not all that hot...most of the time I don't even think about it if I hit it...on the occasion of loading when things are still hot I have leather BBQ pit gloves that go up to my elbow...


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## Case1030 (Jan 1, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> A swinging plate allows a lot more wood to be loaded than a 8" tall door opening does...but still blocks most of the smoke that rolls out the door without it. I HATE a smoky smell in the house!
> By the time she needs to be fed again, that plate is usually not all that hot...most of the time I don't even think about it if I hit it...on the occasion of loading when things are still hot I have leather BBQ pit gloves that go up to my elbow...



Yep some lessons are taught pretty quick. It's that one time your juiced and make the mistake (burning your hand on metal) and swear to always wear gloves after that. Doesn't end there lol.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> It’s a drawback but if the rest of the package makes up for it then I could live with a windowless furnace.



was just teasin' ya


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Yep some lessons are taught pretty quick. It's that one time your juiced and make the mistake (burning your hand on metal) and swear to always wear gloves after that. Doesn't end there lol.


Yeah I've been burnt in the past...but that was with the Yukon Big Jack...which was much harder to time out the loads on...and partially due to inferior design, partially due to a less than ideal install, I had to ride 'er pretty hard, so that plate was pretty hot sometimes.
The Tundra doesn't have one and there was a few times that I wished for one...reloading on a pile of coals and the weather was just such that the chimney draft was not keeping all the smoke in the firebox...can't load fast enough in that scenario!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

Thermal image...


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## woodey (Jan 1, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Another pic...
> View attachment 237129









A627  CONGRATS!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

woodey said:


> A627  CONGRATS!




OK, you lost me with this and Google is not helping me.


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## maple1 (Jan 1, 2019)

Ok, I think that's enough of the guessing games. Story telling time.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Ok, I think that's enough of the guessing games. Story telling time.




Once upon a time, there was................


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## sloeffle (Jan 1, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Thermal image...
> View attachment 237147


The front looks like a Kuuma to me. You however have a Kuuma struck through on your signature line.


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2019)

I bet it's a Kuuma VF100.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Another pic...
> View attachment 237129


^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


JRHAWK9 said:


> OK, you lost me with this and Google is not helping me.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^




  I definitely over-thought that!  I was thinking it was some HTML/computer code for some word.  I guess I should have looked more closely at the pics.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Ok, I think that's enough of the guessing games. Story telling time.


 A627...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

Ok ok...here is a pic from when I got 'er home...in the process of unloading...


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 1, 2019)

Did you sell your old stove? Are you using this one full time now?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Did you sell your old stove? Are you using this one full time now?


I sold the Kuuma VF200 that I was using last winter, the Tundra is still sitting in the garage...I am going to take it to my co-worker who is a certified high pressure steam welder to have the cracks repaired before I sell it.
Yes, 24/7 as needed.


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## woodey (Jan 1, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I definitely over-thought that!  I was thinking it was some HTML/computer code for some word.  I guess I should have looked more closely at the pics.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Definitely over-thought it .I thought you would have latched onto  the clue at a glance


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## laynes69 (Jan 1, 2019)

So I was kinda right! Is there a large difference in heat output with the plenum? Of course the firebox is a little larger too.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

woodey said:


> Definitely over-thought it .I thought you would have latched onto  the clue at a glance



I didn't click on the photo to enlarge it so I never saw the stamped part of it.


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## woodey (Jan 1, 2019)

I think we are close to the end of this mystery


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> So I was kinda right! Is there a large difference in heat output with the plenum? Of course the firebox is a little larger too.


Well...yes and no. It was a really busy summer around here and I didn't get everything changed over the way I wanted to. My goal is to take the Yukon out, install this unit in its place, and then I have a 60-70k BTU oil furnace that will be tied in too...make it all work together seamlessly. The way things are now, if I want to run the AC or oil heat I have to do a little work to switch things around...gotta get it to where its more user friendly so the wife can run things if I'm laid up or gone...I'm on call 24/7 at work and sometimes I get called a lot in the winter.
Anyways, it got to be late October and it finally got cold...we soon were gonna need more heat than the fireplace stove can make, so I had to throw things together in little time...so it went in as an "add-on" just like the Tundra was...so no plenum...I have a 10x20 duct coming straight off 'er up into one of the main ducts...working pretty well like that.
Definitely has a lil more nuts than the Tundra...but its hard to compare directly because we have added an extra 650 sq ft that we were not heating before...that, and this winter has been so mild so far! Still haven't loaded but twice per day...and half loads (at most) at that!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)




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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)




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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


>



 Dude...45 seconds?! You must of had that cued up and just waiting on me!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

I think @3fordasho gets credit for figuring this out first... @laynes69 was on my trail too...but thought I was still running the VF200 from last year that he found for sale and passed on...then I swooped in and bought. @JRHAWK9 has been in the loop the whole time (except for the color)  quite the wealth of Kuuma knowledge he is...


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## Case1030 (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I think @3fordasho gets credit for figuring this out first... @laynes69 was on my trail too...but thought I was still running the VF200 from last year that he found for sale and passed on...then I swooped in and bought. @JRHAWK9 has been in the loop the whole time (except for the color)  quite the wealth of Kuuma knowledge he is...



Should have just kept throwing hints around for the rest of the winter lol.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Dude...45 seconds?! You must of had that cued up and just waiting on me!



It's the first thing which popped into my mind and I did a quick Google search for it


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 2, 2019)

Why did you sell a 200 model for the 100?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Why did you sell a 200 model for the 100?


Longer firebox...the VF200 takes 18" wood...and I have 20 cords cut to 20-22" sittin here, which the 
VF100 takes 22" max.
I spent all last winter cutting 4-6" off each split...when spring came I said, enough!
That, and the 200 was just barely big enough to do the job...and I knew we were going to be adding more space to heat starting this winter, so the 200 would have struggled to keep up once winter really set in.


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## maple1 (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Longer firebox...the 200 takes 16" wood...I have 20 cords cut to 20-22" here, which the 100 takes 22" max.
> I spent all last winter cutting 4-6" off each split...when spring came I said, enough!
> That, and the 200 was just barely big enough to do the job...and I knew we were going to be adding more space to heat starting this winter, so the 200 would have struggled to keep up once winter really set in.



(And if anyone didn't know, the 100 is bigger than the 200. Not sure why they numbered them like that, seems a bit backwards. But they're allowed.  )


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Should have just kept throwing hints around for the rest of the winter lol.


Thought about draggin it out a lil more...but when ya have a hot lil number in a red dress ya kinda wanna take 'er out and show 'er around a lil, no?!  

Sorry about the crappy pics...its kinda tight in there for taking good pictures...and my new phone doesn't always do the best pics 
either...it can, but doesn't always.


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2019)

So is it a v100 painted red?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

Yes VF100R


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## DoubleB (Jan 3, 2019)

Looks totally different--and much better--in your basement than in you minivan!


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## sloeffle (Jan 5, 2019)

@brenndatomu What is the difference between a VF100 and VF100R ? 

If we were talking John Deere tractors I would know.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 5, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> @brenndatomu What is the difference between a VF100 and VF100R ?
> 
> If we were talking John Deere tractors I would know.



The 'R' model has that fancy, user applied, red paint job.  It's a very rare one of a kind model.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 5, 2019)

"Arrest me red"


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 9, 2019)

For what its worth, i knew from the 1st pic. But i just saw the 1st pic tonight, so i lose.. How are you liking the set it and forget it? Have you played with t-stat or high low? Took me a year to really get it the way i wanted.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 9, 2019)

Holey moley...he is still alive! 
Well, the way I had the Tundra set up it was almost set it and forget it too...but not quite to the degree the Kuuma is.
Its working very well so I haven't played with it too much...worked through a couple minor bugs right off the bat, and added a speed control to the blower...just put wood in, and shovel ashes out since then.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 9, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Have you played with t-stat or high low?



Oh I have!   



STIHLY DAN said:


> Took me a year to really get it the way i wanted.



Took me 4+ years, but I think I have it pretty much optimized for this house.    S   L  O   O  W   blower speed is what this house likes, even in cold weather.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 9, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Holey moley...he is still alive!
> Well, the way I had the Tundra set up it was almost set it and forget it too...but not quite to the degree the Kuuma is.
> Its working very well so I haven't played with it too much...worked through a couple minor bugs right off the bat, and added a speed control to the blower...just put wood in, and shovel ashes out since then.


Of course you did!! lol... I still have no need for improvements... really boring actually.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 9, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Oh I have!
> 
> 
> 
> Took me 4+ years, but I think I have it pretty much optimized for this house.    S   L  O   O  W   blower speed is what this house likes, even in cold weather.


OCD is all I have to say..


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 9, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> OCD is all I have to say..



hey, I got results and that's all that matters!


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 9, 2019)

LOL.. It is.. I wish I had that passion. but its not needed for me. Been contemplating doing a speed controller with a pid loop of the T-stat.  But I don't need it, and need to allocate my time and cash towards the new Harley.


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## woodey (Jan 9, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> S L O O W blower speed is what this house likes, even in cold weather.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Same here, I barely if ever use the high side of the blower.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 10, 2019)

woodey said:


> Same here, I barely if ever use the high side of the blower.


I haven't yet.
JR means waaay slow...speed control on the blower motor...


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 10, 2019)

woodey said:


> Same here, I barely if ever use the high side of the blower.






brenndatomu said:


> I haven't yet.
> JR means waaay slow...speed control on the blower motor...



yeah, the speed control is not even sending 70V to the blower in the middle of a burn with the Kuuma set on minimum burn.  Don't know what it will be sending to the motor once I turn the Kuuma up, as I have yet to take it off minimum burn this winter so far.  The low limit shuts off the blower when the SC is sending right around 48V to the motor.  I DO have a ball bearing motor.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 14, 2019)

Talked with Dale at Lamppa Mfg. today, he said they have a lightly used "demo" VF100 for sale there right now...if anybody is looking...


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 17, 2019)

Was looking up Tundra II vs Caddy and found this...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Was looking up Tundra II vs Caddy and found this...
> 
> View attachment 238492



Never know what the future holds, huh?!
If it weren't for the wife being home with the kiddos and me being on call 24/7, the Tundra was doing a satisfactory job, but I wanted to make everything as user friendly as possible so she can handle things if I'm out all night...which happens most often in the worst of the winter weather.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Was looking up Tundra II vs Caddy and found this...
> 
> View attachment 238492


Was that in the big Tundra thread over there? I vaguely remember the conversation...


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Never know what the future holds, huh?!
> If it weren't for the wife being home with the kiddos and me being on call 24/7, the Tundra was doing a satisfactory job, but I wanted to make everything as user friendly as possible so she can handle things if I'm out all night...which happens most often in the worst of the winter weather.



I'm curious... can you describe what is more user friendly now that you've done the switch. Obviously there was no comparison to the tundra before your temp controller mod/timer. But what is easier than turning a timer and walking away? I guess what comes to mind right off the bat is the ash grate at the front of the kumma, but one day of not cleaning ashes (when your away) isnt going to make it less user friendly.

You mentioned adding more sqft to your house that required a little more firepower... and the kumma VF has a larger firebox to compensate. So that's more about size of furnace...

You've tried both of them out, so your the guy to ask.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Was looking up Tundra II vs Caddy and found this...





Case1030 said:


> I'm curious... can you describe what is more user friendly now that you've done the switch. Obviously there was no comparison to the tundra before your temp controller mod/timer. But what is easier than turning a timer and walking away? I guess what comes to mind right off the bat is the ash grate at the front of the kumma, but one day of not cleaning ashes (when your away) isnt going to make it less user friendly.
> 
> You mentioned adding more sqft to your house that required a little more firepower... and the kumma VF has a larger firebox to compensate. So that's more about size of furnace...
> 
> You've tried both of them out, so your the guy to ask.




I'm curious as well.  My guess they are similar, if you have a timer.  If you are able to start a fire, load, set the timer and walk away....that's about as good as it gets I'd think.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I'm curious as well.  My guess they are similar, if you have a timer.  If you are able to start a fire, load, set the timer and walk away....that's about as good as it gets I'd think.



I think bren got kumma fever had to hop on board.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> I think bren got kumma fewer had to hop on board.



there's still more room over here on the other side ya know, we don't bite.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> there's still more room over here on the other side ya know, we don't bite.



Well yea know it only took bren 3.5 years... maybe I'll join the other side in that short period lmao.


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 17, 2019)

I am starting a go fund me page!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> I am starting a go fund me page!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Well yea know it only took bren 3.5 years... maybe I'll join the other side in that short period lmao.




I think in those three + years he had 4 different ones though IIRC.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


>



Who knows what can happen in the period of time... especially with the new epa regulations coming up. These manufacturers are going to ether get out of the business or pull up there socks and get with the program... should give customers more of a clean burning market to choose from. Hopefully


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Well yea know it only took bren 3.5 years... maybe I'll join the other side in that short period lmao.



Looks like it's a nice balmy -12°F to -15°F by you right now.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Who know what can happen in the period of time... especially with the new epa regulations coming up. These manufacturers are going to ether get out of the business or pull up there socks and get with the program... should give customers more of a clean burning market to choose from. Hopefully




or big business whines enough and they get their way and they roll back the whole regulation.  

If it stays like it is I'd think it will drive the market where it should be going and create competition.  Competition is always good for the consumer.  

Personally, I think Lamppa should look into doing a speed controlled blower.  IMO, this is where they are behind the times a bit.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Looks like it's a nice balmy -12°F to -15°F by you right now.



Ohh yea its supposed to go down to go below -22f in my area tonight. 

Still managed to get a few minutes short of an 11 hour burn today with a load of elm mixed with jackpine. Tonight will be a oak/elm burn.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> or big business whines enough and they get their way and they roll back the whole regulation.
> 
> If it stays like it is I'd think it will drive the market where it should be going and create competition.  Competition is always good for the consumer.
> 
> Personally, I think Lamppa should look into doing a speed controlled blower.  IMO, this is where they are behind the times a bit.



I agree with the regulations and think it will help the safety and efficiency of all wood burning appliances while help to keep a healthy competitive market.

Ether way the market will have to prepare.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

I like to use this site to easily look at temps around the world.  The color gradient scale also is useful to see temp patterns.

https://maps.darksky.net/@temperature,46.012,-91.934,5


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## brenndatomu (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> I'm curious... can you describe what is more user friendly now that you've done the switch. Obviously there was no comparison to the tundra before your temp controller mod/timer. But what is easier than turning a timer and walking away? I guess what comes to mind right off the bat is the ash grate at the front of the kumma, but one day of not cleaning ashes (when your away) isnt going to make it less user friendly.
> 
> You mentioned adding more sqft to your house that required a little more firepower... and the kumma VF has a larger firebox to compensate. So that's more about size of furnace...
> 
> You've tried both of them out, so your the guy to ask.


​Good question, and not a simple answer honestly!
Its not so much that there is a huge difference in operating a modded Tundra and a Kuuma (as far as user friendliness) but I do really like the computer keeping the fire optimal at all times...and the ability to adjust the rate of burn...and the super clean emissions, the 25 year warranty, and the almost spotless track record, their customer service (SBI is good, but Lamppa is great)
And as you mentioned, the Tundra would have probably struggled with the extra space that we have to heat now, at least when it got good n cold...I would just fire up the fireplace stove as a booster, but I would not want the wife to have to do that if she didn't want to in my absence...I could have bought a Heatpro, but then I think it would have been too much on warmer days...maybe, I dunno.
The other thing is this, I have owned and installed a bunch of different units in the last 8-9 years, and I am getting tired of doing it, have better things to do than change out furnaces every couple years...so I wanted the best chance of the next one, being the last one.
Oh, and at one point I was waiting to see what Yukon come up with for their new EPA certified furnace...they said the old Huskys like mine could be retrofitted with the new firebox...but then they didn't get it done by the time EPA phase one went into effect spring 2017, and these days it seems like they are content to just sell the old models to Canadians...so they kinda fell off my radar...and then I didn't want to take a risk on a new unproven model either...and wanted to do something sooner rather than later too, so no more waiting on them...especially since they have provided NO updates in a long time.

I could have welded up the cracks and just kept the Tundra...and if I had firewood that actually fit in the VF200 I used last winter, I might have just kept that (too small though, BTU wise)...but bottom line is...this is just how things worked out...had I found the right deal on a Max Caddy or Heatpro, I may have went that route...but Lamppa alerted me to this unit, and it wasn't even used a full season...the deal was one that we were able to afford and justify at the time...so here we are...no regrets...


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I like to use this site to easily look at temps around the world.  The color gradient scale also is useful to see temp patterns.
> 
> https://maps.darksky.net/@temperature,46.012,-91.934,5



That's pretty accurate says -19f for Winnipeg


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> That's pretty accurate says -19f for Winnipeg



you can zoom in and it will display more temps of more cities/towns.  Can also have it display wind chill temps.

I have found it very accurate here as well.

damn, would it sound strange to say I'm almost jealous of the temps you see.  What about snow?  Do you guys get decent snow up there?


----------



## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> you can zoom in and it will display more temps of more cities/towns.
> 
> 
> damn, would it sound strange to say I'm almost jealous of the temps you see.  What about snow?  Do you guys get decent snow up there?



Ah well my dad is turning 63 this year and he remembers having to call the gravel quarys in to clean the farm yard... my current woodshed/grain bin was 3/4 burried for a couple years. Only a few members know my age but in that time we have gotten decent snow just not what dad has seen in his time... right now we got maybe 1.5 feet of snow usually we have double this time of year.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

The main issue on the prairies is snow BLOWS. And it can bury a driveway/yard with a decent snowfall. I'll have to make a post with the big tractor pto snowblower we have now. Boy does that thing kick it out.


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## Case1030 (Jan 17, 2019)

@JRHAWK9 if your jelous of this temp... move up to Thompson Manitoba few of my buddies are getting night time temps of -35f tonight and tomorrow.


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## Case1030 (Jan 18, 2019)




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## Case1030 (Jan 18, 2019)

This is the place for you @JRHAWK9


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 18, 2019)

damn, dat's some cold weather!!  I can only imagine how our house would do in those temps.  We get frost building up in a few INTERIOR corners as it is when we get temps much below -10°.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 18, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Ah well my dad is turning 63 this year and he remembers having to call the gravel quarys in to clean the farm yard... my current woodshed/grain bin was 3/4 burried for a couple years. Only a few members know my age but in that time we have gotten decent snow just not what dad has seen in his time... right now we got maybe 1.5 feet of snow usually we have double this time of year.



considering we have zip, nada, nothing on the ground right now I'd take anything.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 18, 2019)

We supposed to get 3-5" up to 8-12" (depends on who you listen to...and when, they keep changing it!) here this weekend. 
And down to -2* F Sunday night! And wind! 
Might get to see what the Kuuma can really do...


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> We supposed to get 3-5" up to 8-12" (depends on who you listen to...and when, they keep changing it!) here this weekend.
> And down to -2* F Sunday night! And wind!
> Might get to see what the Kuuma can really do...



Same here a 1 - 2 punch this weekend... You will find me on the slopes enjoying some fresh powder!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> We supposed to get 3-5" up to 8-12" (depends on who you listen to...and when, they keep changing it!) here this weekend.
> And down to -2* F Sunday night! And wind!
> Might get to see what the Kuuma can really do...



Must be nice to get snow down by you.  Pretty soon snowmobiler's will be traveling SOUTH to find snow. 

Supposed to be getting some snow too, won't be holding my breath though.

We are cooling down some too, but not as much as they originally were predicting earlier.  With it warming up some during the day I should be able to get away with continuing to leave the Kuuma on minimum burn the whole time.  I'll just increase the loading size a bit and load on a bit more coals to keep supply temps up in between loadings.  I did just that last night and this morning.  This morning it was 12° by us and was 74° inside when I got up.  It's now back up to 75°.


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## laynes69 (Jan 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> We supposed to get 3-5" up to 8-12" (depends on who you listen to...and when, they keep changing it!) here this weekend.
> And down to -2* F Sunday night! And wind!
> Might get to see what the Kuuma can really do...


Yep! I always don't think our furnace will keep up....but she always pulls through. We are now under a winter storm warning. The wind with below zero weather will put a beating on us for sure.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 18, 2019)

You guys will be getting the same storm which is just starting to approach us now.  It just started to flurry.  The damn cold front from the north is going to be pushing it further south (according to the weather guys), so we will be on the north edge of it.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jan 19, 2019)

Snow they say, a dusting to 3 feet here. (i want that job) 0 or below monday. The Kumma stays on low untill it goes below zero for me.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 19, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> The Kumma stays on low untill it goes below zero for me.



I remember our early conversations the very first year and you mentioning this and me only wishing I could do the same for this house.  My how things can change when one puts their (OCD) mind to it.      Still may not heat our pig of a house quite as easy as it heats yours, but things have definitely improved big time over that first/second year.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 20, 2019)

So as we all have been preaching to @Mrpelletburner , ya gotta control your chimney draft!
I woke up at 5 AM today, was listening to the wind howl, looked at my Maverick BBQ monitor to see what the furnace temps were like (looked good, and the house was still 72)...couldn't get back to sleep then. So I got up and flipped on some local news to see what's up with this storm. Decided to reload the Kuuma at 6 AM since the thermometer said the house temp dropped to 71...don't wanna fall behind with the wind and the falling temps throughout the day (15* now)
The temps (firebox/flue) were higher than where I would normally reload at, but surprisingly found there to be 1.5 - 2 gallons worth of hot coals left. (less than I expected since I had loaded 50+ lbs of wood 10 just hours earlier, and computer set on low)

I loaded ~58 # of Ash and a few pieces of Honey Locust (about a 3/4 + load, space wise) decided to leave the computer on low, just see how it goes since I will be home to monitor most of the day (hopefully)...gotta learn my new "normal" with this new machine, ya know! 
Anyways, about an hour later I am still watching the news and surfing on line when I hear a faint beep...thought it was on the TV, muted TV, still hear it...turned TV off, still there...crap, gotta be the high temp alarm on the Kuuma!
So I run down and check, sure enough, firebox temp reading 1410* F! Flue temp was in the 350* range, not a crazy temp...I had seen a bit over 400* after reloading, before the computer started to ratchet the damper closed...usually never see anything over 350* during that "firebox temp building" period though.
So I had noticed that my draft was running higher than normal when I reloaded, I usually run -0.04", but it was running -0.06 to -0.08" depending on the wind gusts. I decided to clip a weight onto the baro door so it just hangs wide open...that took things back to -0.04ish. Firebox temps started sloooowly falling, high temp alarm screaming the whole time...took about 10 minutes to get under 1395*, where the alarm started to cycle on/off. Once it was under 1380* it only beeped twice more for a second....quiet now.
I just went down and re-checked, an hour later now, firebox temp at 1328*, flue temp at 268*, plenum at 117* with blower running full speed on low, baro still wide open and draft still about -0.04".

I now regret not re-installing the manual damper that I had ahead of the baro when the Tundra was installed...that damper will be going back in as soon as I get the chance to let the fire die out...ya gotta control your draft!


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## sloeffle (Jan 20, 2019)

Normally I need to use a small nail or paper clip on the air flap to keep the secondaries going on the Caddy. Not today with the winds we are having. I'm sure the chimney is pulling harder too with it only being 5F out. The baro was hanging open some when I reloaded this morning.


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## woodey (Jan 20, 2019)

Had the same issue here with the alarm  after 2 loadings the other day. Mine wasn't a draft issue I was guilty of loading a little to soon near the end of the burn cycle  where normally I can get 1-2 hrs of heat out of the remaining coals. With the subzero temps I wanted to get the Kuuma loaded  pushing out more heat than  what I was getting from the coals to keep the LP from kicking in. This issue has been resolved  for me by simply taking a small spade shovel and removing some of the coals  down to the amount I usually load on. Reload  and 5 minutes later blowers on and good  till the next loading.  I know I may be throwing out some available heat at the end of the burn cycle but this high tech solution keeps the LP from kicking in.


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## Case1030 (Jan 20, 2019)

Another beautiful morning in paradise. Great feeling you wake up to a clear blue sky and -25.6f...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 21, 2019)

Still getting my "new normal" figured out here.
I went into work to plow snow late yesterday afternoon, figured I had about enough time to get done and be back home before time to reload the Kuuma. Well, plowing took a lot longer than I thought it was gonna, so at 6:30 I ran back home to re-load (don't wanna "fall behind" on heat with these overnight temps) and then grab a bite to eat too.
I wasn't sure how to load...go big and go for a full overnight run, or go smaller and turn up the computer for more heat and still be able to get another smaller load for the overnight. I decide to go for the 2 smaller loads and go to "medium" on the 'puter.
So then it got to be 11pm and I was ready to hit the hay, but the temps on the Kuuma were still high enough I knew it wasn't really ready for more wood (but wouldn't make enough heat over night without more wood)...and loading on that many hot coals might result in the high temp alarm going off like it did yesterday morning.
I decided to load 3 large splits (10# each) in the hopes that maybe they would off gas slower and not make the firebox "go nuclear"...it worked...finally drug my butt outta bed at 8am (off for MLK day) and the house was still 71* inside, HT alarm never went off.
My thermometer said 2* when I got up, the local weather service said it was -4*F here though...no fuel oil burnt, and we are warm.
Score: 
Winter storm - 0
Kuuma - 1


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 21, 2019)

We had temps Saturday night down to -8°.  House was 73-74 most of the day on Sunday.  When I did my smaller pre-night load around 6pm Sunday I decided to crank the Kuuma on high; to see what it could do with the first cold weather of the season and after slowing down the blower even more from last year.  These were the temps inside the house and outside at 9:30pm Sunday night.  This was after my other half decided to have the basement walkout door open in order to bring in a butt load (50-60) of old single pain windows for her crafting hobby.  She had to do it on the coldest night of the year so far.    Basement temps dropped 2° just from that.  




It was -17° at midnight and was -22° this morning when I got up, otherwise known as @Case1030 's normal winter high temps.    Unfortunately, I was a bit too cocky and decided to turn the Kuuma down to about halfway after I loaded for the night.  I knew it was going to be warming up the next couple days into the teens so I wasn't too concerned about keeping the house temp up.  When I got up this morning the house was laughing at me and flipping me the bird.    I think I heard it mumbling something along the lines of, "you need to feed me more BTU's than that if you want me to stay above 70° in these outside temps.....I'm a hungry little beeotch"   .   The LP furnace had run a total of 28 minutes (figured about 3 cycles) near morning keeping the house 68°.  I also noticed my draft was only -0.03" from when I dampened it down some earlier in the day with the key damper due to winds and I forgot to open it back up.  There were still a fair amount of coals left, too many to load on, but not enough to provide enough heat to this place, in these temps.  I raked them forward and got ready for work.  By the time I was ready to leave for work I could re-load for the day.

Speaking of and as far as loading on coals, this is what I like to load on in cold temps.  This was taken right before I did my smaller pre-night load I mentioned above.  Firebox temps were at about 900° with plenum temps still 117-118°.  Still getting nice heat out to the house but not enough to keep the house temp from dropping in cold weather.




This morning I also noticed the temp of the air entering my BD and being mixed with the flue gasses was 6°.


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## laynes69 (Jan 21, 2019)

I loaded at 9pm, temps in the single digits and chills well below zero. It was 75 when I loaded for the night. At 4:30 this morning the house was 71 degrees and the temps outside were at 8 below, not too shabby! I don't have our LP turned on for backup even. No doubt though...these temperatures test a homes ability to retain heat.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 21, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> No doubt though...these temperatures test a homes ability to retain heat.



It's temps like this where the boiler w/storage guys are like, "what's the problem guys?"    All of us furnace guys are at the mercy of decreasing BTU output at the time of usually the highest heat demand; at daybreak.  Only heat storage/buffer we have is the thermal mass of everything in the house, and that does not do much.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 21, 2019)

I'm cheating tonight...gonna charge up that thermal mass tank...I put just a 50 lb load in the Kuuma at 8pm, left it on low, then put a small load in the Drolet 1400i fireplace stove too...last I looked it was 75* in here...started at 71* 3 hrs ago...and the Kuuma is just now starting to hit its stride...so I expect to see 76-77* (78?) in here tonight before this is over!  (that's hot for us...we rarely see anything over 75, and even that's not very common!)
This house is hard to raise the temp in...but then the temp doesn't fall as fast as some other houses do either...not sure what that's all about...I'll take it I guess.


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## maple1 (Jan 22, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> It's temps like this where the boiler w/storage guys are like, "what's the problem guys?"    All of us furnace guys are at the mercy of decreasing BTU output at the time of usually the highest heat demand; at daybreak.  Only heat storage/buffer we have is the thermal mass of everything in the house, and that does not do much.



Humm, what's that you say? 

It is very nice, for sure. Sipping on my coffee in my 21°c office, the fire has been out for 10 hours now, it's -15c outside, and I figure I will make another fire sometime later this afternoon. The very most I would need to have a fire actually going with the coldest days we might get, is 12 hours a day, max.

Won't derail any more.   (But I didn't start it  )


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## brenndatomu (Jan 22, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm cheating tonight...gonna charge up that thermal mass tank...I put just a 50 lb load in the Kuuma at 8pm, left it on low, then put a small load in the Drolet 1400i fireplace stove too...last I looked it was 75* in here...started at 71* 3 hrs ago...and the Kuuma is just now starting to hit its stride...so I expect to see 76-77* (78?) in here tonight before this is over!  (that's hot for us...we rarely see anything over 75, and even that's not very common!)
> This house is hard to raise the temp in...but then the temp doesn't fall as fast as some other houses do either...not sure what that's all about...I'll take it I guess.


Well, it worked. Was -2* out when I got up at 6...73* in the house. The Kuuma really needed another hour or two to finish eating last nights meal, quite a pile of coals left...the big chunk of honey locust I threw in might have had something to do with that though too.
Supposed to get up to 30* here today (15 now) so I put another 50# load in at 6:30...see what things look like at 4...doubt I will need to load again until 6pm. Our temps are supposed to be a little more mild this week...unlike the weather @JRHAWK9  is in for this week!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 22, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Our temps are supposed to be a little more mild this week...unlike the weather @JRHAWK9  is in for this week!



I think this is karma biting me in the arse for complaining since mid December about our abnormally warm winter with no snow.


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## NoobTube (Jan 23, 2019)

How do you guys survive with interior temperatures that high? I mean my wife would love that, but me... i'm usually dying at around 72* and I'm basically wearing nothing... I'm more of a 67-70* guy.


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2019)

What's the deal with you folks only loading 30-50# loads of wood in this furnace? It's 4.1 or maybe 4.6 CF right? Heck, I load 45# of low density softwood into my 2.8 cubic foot firebox every time. Is it because of that silly metal curtain thing that hangs down blocking half of the loading door? Does that thing prevent a full fill of the firebox?


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## maple1 (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> What's the deal with you folks only loading 30-50# loads of wood in this furnace? It's 4.1 or maybe 4.6 CF right? Heck, I load 45# of low density softwood into my 2.8 cubic foot firebox every time. Is it because of that silly metal curtain thing that hangs down blocking half of the loading door? Does that thing prevent a full fill of the firebox?



I'm not one of these furnace folks, but I'm guessing it is all about timing.

Say if you load it right up with wood in the afternoon, and you want to load again on the way to bed, you might open the door to half a load of fire. So instead, you only load in the afternoon enough to get you to bedtime so you are loading on coals.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> What's the deal with you folks only loading 30-50# loads of wood in this furnace? It's 4.1 or maybe 4.6 CF right? Heck, I load 45# of low density softwood into my 2.8 cubic foot firebox every time. Is it because of that silly metal curtain thing that hangs down blocking half of the loading door? Does that thing prevent a full fill of the firebox?



When you don't need 10+ hours of heat at 10-15,000 BTU's/hr.  I've loaded 10-15lbs numerous times in the shoulder season just to give a little boost.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 23, 2019)

maple1 said:


> I'm not one of these furnace folks, but I'm guessing it is all about timing.
> 
> Say if you load it right up with wood in the afternoon, and you want to load again on the way to bed, you might open the door to half a load of fire. So instead, you only load in the afternoon enough to get you to bedtime so you are loading on coals.



that too, if the outside temps are cold enough.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> What's the deal with you folks only loading 30-50# loads of wood in this furnace? It's 4.1 or maybe 4.6 CF right? Heck, I load 45# of low density softwood into my 2.8 cubic foot firebox every time. Is it because of that silly metal curtain thing that hangs down blocking half of the loading door? Does that thing prevent a full fill of the firebox?


I burn 99.9% hardwood...a full load is waaaaaaaayyy overkill in all but the coldest temps...you apparently don't run your stove like most people do...because that is just about the only control you have to set the house temp where you want it, vary load size. Yeah you can change the air setting, but you can only go so low on modern stoves so load size means more often times.
Yes, on the Kuuma the computer can be changed to vary burn time, but low only goes so low...it is still gonna give the fire enough air to be at xxxx degrees (and burn clean) so you still need to load for the weather. @JRHAWK9  got me started checking the weight of a load...and I have to agree, its handy. I found that I often misjudge how much wood I am putting in, weight wise.
And no, the "silly metal curtain" doesn't prevent a full load...but it does help prevent even more smoke in the house, especially when loading on lots of hot coals.


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## maple1 (Jan 23, 2019)

The smoke curtain on my old POS didn't prevent a full load - but it most times made it more difficult.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

maple1 said:


> The smoke curtain on my old POS didn't prevent a full load - but it most times made it more difficult.


Yeah, I will agree that it doesn't make a full load any _easier_...


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## sloeffle (Jan 23, 2019)

@brenndatomu or @JRHAWK9 

You guys are always talking about setting the computer on your Lamborghini's ( Kuuma ) to low, medium or high. Can you explain what these settings mean to us Chevy and Toyota drivers  ?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> @brenndatomu or @JRHAWK9
> 
> You guys are always talking about setting the computer on your Lamborghini's ( Kuuma ) to low, medium or high. Can you explain what these settings mean to us Chevy and Toyota drivers  ?


It just adjusts the rate of the burn...basically what the computer is looking for as far as the firebox temperature.
Lamppa says that the burn rate is as such...
Low = 3-4 lbs per hr
Medium = 5-7 lbs per hour
High = 8-9 lbs per hour

Obviously this is just a general guide, as what type of wood (and how dry it is) you are burning, and what your chimney draft (baro) is set at can and will affect how much wood you are really burning in an hours time.
Also, it doesn't just have "low, medium, high", it has a dial, so it is infinitely adjustable to anything in between L/M/H too...


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## TCaldwell (Jan 23, 2019)

I’ll take a schmedium please


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I burn 99.9% hardwood...a full load is waaaaaaaayyy overkill in all but the coldest temps...you apparently don't run your stove like most people do...because that is just about the only control you have to set the house temp where you want it, vary load size. Yeah you can change the air setting, but you can only go so low on modern stoves so load size means more often times.
> Yes, on the Kuuma the computer can be changed to vary burn time, but low only goes so low...it is still gonna give the fire enough air to be at xxxx degrees (and burn clean) so you still need to load for the weather. @JRHAWK9  got me started checking the weight of a load...and I have to agree, its handy. I found that I often misjudge how much wood I am putting in, weight wise.
> And no, the "silly metal curtain" doesn't prevent a full load...but it does help prevent even more smoke in the house, especially when loading on lots of hot coals.



My particular modern woodstove is a lot like  your kuuma. Costs a bit more to than the rest but offers performance unlike the rest. The blaze King stoves have a mechanical thermostat that holds stove output at a constant rate for the whole burn just like the kuuma. We’re talking 30 hours from 2.8 cubic feet and over 80% efficiency. The firebox is just a fuel tank, more wood means a longer burn but not a hotter burn. 

I would have expected the kuuma to work the same way. After all 15000 btu is very low output. Your house in the cold north should lose it faster than that. So it follows that max fill just gets you max burn time. 

The short loads make more sense in terms of scheduling but you can always just top it off can’t you?

Why is smoke leaking? Does that silly metal door blocker swing in, out, or both ways and how can it not limit how high you stack wood in there?


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## woodey (Jan 23, 2019)

You can also extend your burn times in milder temps ( per manual)  by switching off the computer when the 3 appears on the screen and  let the  remaining coals burn via pilot mode- I just did  that as it is 55 degrees warmer here now than It was yesterday AM.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

woodey said:


> You can also extend your burn times in milder temps ( per manual)  by switching off the computer when when the 3 appears on the screen and  let the  remaining coals burn via pilot mode- I just did  that as it is 55 degrees warmer here now than It was yesterday AM.


Yes! Just what I told Mr Hawk last winter...on warmer days, shut 'er off, low heat for an extra few hours...he has finally come around to my way of thinking this winter...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> The short loads make more sense in terms of scheduling but you can always just top it off can’t you?


Not really...loading on an "already in process" burn can result in the firebox "going nuclear"
I did it the other day and got away with it...but only because the fire was 2/3 done, and I loaded 3 LARGE splits (10# each)


Highbeam said:


> Why is smoke leaking? Does that silly metal door blocker swing in, out, or both ways and how can it not limit how high you stack wood in there?


It just does sometimes...every furnace I've ever had does it...all the stoves too, at least sometimes.
The flapper thing is about even with the top of the usable part of the firebox when folded in flat, so it really doesn't stop a full load.


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## woodey (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Does that silly metal door blocker swing in, out, or both ways and how can it not limit how high you stack wood in there?


The silly metal door (flap)  only swings in and does not impede the ability to put on a full load if you have shorter splits  (16-17") for the top tier.


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Not really...loading on an "already in process" burn can result in the firebox "going nuclear"
> I did it the other day and got away with it...but only because the fire was 2/3 done, and I loaded 3 LARGE splits (10# each)
> 
> It just does sometimes...every furnace I've ever had does it...all the stoves too, at least sometimes.
> The flapper thing is about even with the top of the usable part of the firebox when folded in flat, so it really doesn't stop a full load.



Oh so you just shove the flap in and it ends up laying on top of full fuel load? I can see that working since there is no airwash for the window.

Is there not a “roof” inside like a regular tundra style firebox? 

There are very few firebox photos of the kuuma on the inter webs.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> Oh so you just shove the flap in and it ends up laying on top of full fuel load? I can see that working since there is no airwash for the window.


Yeah...that or you can use shorter splits like woodey said...or do some creative stacking...which is not practical at all.


Highbeam said:


> Is there not a “roof” inside like a regular tundra style firebox?


There is in the back.


Highbeam said:


> There are very few firebox photos of the kuuma on the inter webs.


Right...I personally think its because the firebox design is part of their "secret sauce" and most Kuuma owners respect Lamppa Mfg enough to not make it even easier for "monkey see, monkey do" to happen...


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah...that or you can use shorter splits like woodey said...or do some creative stacking...which is not practical at all.
> 
> There is in the back.
> 
> Right...I personally think its because the firebox design is part of their "secret sauce" and most Kuuma owners respect Lamppa Mfg enough to not make it even easier for "monkey see, monkey do" to happen...



Got it. It’s an extremely expensive furnace and you can’t go look at one in person so pictures on the net are all we have.

Independent of low emissions, the control system of the kuuma also makes it a better furnace.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 23, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> It’s an extremely expensive furnace


I wouldn't say _extremely_...but yeah, not cheap...and I would bet that with what has happened with steel prices in recent times, they will not get any cheaper either. I'm grateful to have found this one at a price we could manage. (and got to meet some pretty cool people in the process...including @DoubleB  and family...thanks again guys! )
FYI, you can wrap up almost as much into a Caddy, with some options...or even more easily, the Max Caddy!
Now if you want to get into stuff that is extremely expensive...start pricing out the better boilers...and then add up everything for a full install...now _that_, is extremely expensive!


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I wouldn't say _extremely_...but yeah, not cheap...and I would bet that with what has happened with steel prices in recent times, they will not get any cheaper either. I'm grateful to have found this one at a price we could manage. (and got to meet some pretty cool people in the process...including @DoubleB  and family...thanks again guys! )
> FYI, you can wrap up almost as much into a Caddy, with some options...or even more easily, the Max Caddy!
> Now if you want to get into stuff that is extremely expensive...start pricing out the better boilers...and then add up everything for a full install...now _that_, is extremely expensive!



The boilers and systems, all of them, are insanely expensive  which is why my underslab tubes are dry. Even “simple” pellet boilers are very high.


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## maple1 (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> The boilers and systems, all of them, are insanely expensive  which is why my underslab tubes are dry. Even “simple” pellet boilers are very high.



I think a decent working boiler system could be put together for a pretty reasonable price.

It wouldn't likely include a new gasifier though. (Although there are some nice new leftover ones out there now at good pricing). And would be very heavy on the DIY aspect. Storage is the biggest game changer with a boiler - throw that together with a non-gasser that has tubes (there are good used ones out there) or otherwise decent HX ability & you're off.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> My particular modern woodstove is a lot like  your kuuma. Costs a bit more to than the rest but offers performance unlike the rest. The blaze King stoves have a mechanical thermostat that holds stove output at a constant rate for the whole burn just like the kuuma. We’re talking 30 hours from 2.8 cubic feet and over 80% efficiency. The firebox is just a fuel tank, more wood means a longer burn but not a hotter burn.
> 
> I would have expected the kuuma to work the same way. After all 15000 btu is very low output. Your house in the cold north should lose it faster than that. So it follows that max fill just gets you max burn time.



One very important piece you are missing though.  Yours has a cat.  You are able to smolder a fire and let the cat deal with the fuel before it exits the stove.  The Kuuma doesn't have a cat, so it must actually burn the wood completely so it never reaches the point of smoldering.




brenndatomu said:


> Yes! Just what I told Mr Hawk last winter...on warmer days, shut 'er off, low heat for an extra few hours...he has finally come around to my way of thinking this winter...



I'm a little slow sometimes.    Back when we were discussing this our weather was not such which would allow me to do this and not knowing what your weather was I was just assuming similar situations.  We were after two different outcomes in two different situations.  This spring is when I saw the light though.  Like I said, a bit slow.  




sloeffle said:


> @brenndatomu or @JRHAWK9
> 
> You guys are always talking about setting the computer on your Lamborghini's ( Kuuma ) to low, medium or high. Can you explain what these settings mean to us Chevy and Toyota drivers  ?



What Bren said, it just controls the level of burn.  The higher to you turn the knob, the higher the BTU output per hour and faster the wood burns.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> One very important piece you are missing though.  Yours has a cat.  You are able to smolder a fire and let the cat deal with the fuel before it exits the stove.  The Kuuma doesn't have a cat, so it must actually burn the wood completely so it never reaches the point of smoldering.
> 
> What Bren said, it just controls the level of burn.  The higher to you turn the knob, the higher the BTU output per hour and faster the wood burns.



No, not missing it at all and the cat makes zero difference. The only benefit of a cat is that I can choose a very low burn rate for really long burn times. The kuuma has a narrower range of output levels to choose from but works exactly the same way. This is a good thing. One of the best things about the BK stove is that thermostat which is what only the kuuma furnace has. After living with a thermostatically controlled woodstove I can't imagine why all furnaces are not similarly equipped.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 24, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> No, not missing it at all and the cat makes zero difference. The only benefit of a cat is that I can choose a very low burn rate for really long burn times. The kuuma has a narrower range of output levels to choose from but works exactly the same way. This is a good thing. One of the best things about the BK stove is that thermostat which is what only the kuuma furnace has. After living with a thermostatically controlled woodstove I can't imagine why all furnaces are not similarly equipped.




sorry, I mis-understood what you were trying to get at.  Thought you were comparing burn times/efficiencies between the two different sized fireboxes.

my bad, once again, I'm a bit slow.


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## Highbeam (Jan 24, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> sorry, I mis-understood what you were trying to get at.  Thought you were comparing burn times/efficiencies between the two different sized fireboxes.
> 
> my bad, once again, I'm a bit slow.



They used to make cat furnaces and maybe will again. I don’t think they can do much better on emissions than what kuuma already accomplished, and the extra efficiency is probably not worth the extra cost/work of a catalyst. 

Did I read right that “low” setting on a 4.6 kuuma is just 15000 btu per hour? Seems very low.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 25, 2019)

I guess this is what happens to the OAK when outside temps drop to -21°F.   

This is connected to my BD and that air is being mixed with my flue gasses.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 25, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> when outside temps drop to -21°F


Bet it ain't takin much of that to knock the draft down!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Bet it ain't takin much of that to knock the draft down!



probably not!

Holding it's own after it was -16° last night and a high of 0° today.  Woke up to 72° in the house and was able to pull it up to 74°.  Zero LP used so far.
Temps are still dropping outside though too.




House Thermostat:




Hard at work giving all it has to heat this place.  Little over halfway through this load before the night load:


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## brenndatomu (Jan 25, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> View attachment 239175


What time is liftoff?


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> What time is liftoff?
> View attachment 239177





As soon as someone attaches a large canopy over the house and ties it down to the house.  Ala the first hot air balloon house!


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## woodey (Jan 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> What time is liftoff?
> View attachment 239177


Exactly what I was thinking


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 26, 2019)

Just loaded for the night.  Lost a degree while letting the coals get to a reasonable state before re-loading.  House -should- stay right around here, we'll see though.

2° removed from a 100° T which I thought I would never be able to obtain with this house on wood only, especially on back to back double digit below zero nights.  May stay up to see if I can catch it and capture it, as it doesn't get this cold too often here.  Outside of the past week, I don't remember the last time we had these kind of temps.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 26, 2019)

well, this sucks.

Soon as I did the night load of mostly BL the house started to lose temp.  At 6:45am, with outside temps -27°, the LP furnace kicked in.    I really thought I had things rollin', and I did, until that BL load took me down.   

I have done a total of 4 BL loads now and all four have resulted in lower than normal plenum temps.  The first two were those which I stuffed the firebox full when leaving and setting the Kuuma on low and had those 20 hour burn times.  Thought it was weird I was getting such low plenum temps throughout the whole burn.  Then the night before last the same thing.  It wasn't as cold as last night outside (-16°  ) but the house started out at 76° and fell to 72° by morning.  The oak loads during the day was able to bring the house temp back up.  Then last night I had it maintaining 72°/73° with it being -26° outside and as soon as I loaded the BL for the night load the house temp started to trend down, 0.1° at a time, until it hit 68° and the LP thermostat called for heat.....6 3/4 hours after the night load.  I have a digital temp gauge which display's house temps in 0.1° increments, very handy for being able to monitor temp trends.

Plenum temps on oak, when things are rollin and when I was able to maintain house temp, have been right around the 122°-124° area throughout the burn.  Plenum temps with black locust (the last two over night loads) have only been 120-122° throughout the burn.  Seeing the blower is speed controlled, this also means less volume of air as well. 

I also found numerous threads online about other seeing similar results when not mixing it with other hardwoods.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/burning-locust.102705/

Have any of you had similar results burning just BL?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 26, 2019)

I've never burnt much black locust...but I know that even with honey locust, I like to just mix it in...not more than 50%. Seems like the bigger chunks take a while to really catch good...but once they do, hoo boy!
But yes, I have seen loads that didn't seem to make the BTUs that were expected


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## sloeffle (Jan 26, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Have any of you had similar results burning just BL?


I've been burning been ash for so long due to EAB I didn't realize there were other woods out there to burn. Below is a pic of some ash tree carnage due to some recent high winds.











I actually have some honey locust and osage orange ( power line clearing  ) in the hopper for next year. The state forester came in and recommended I thin the locust out of our woods in order to help the more valuable trees grow better.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 26, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> well, this sucks.
> 
> Soon as I did the night load of mostly BL the house started to lose temp.  At 6:45am, with outside temps -27°, the LP furnace kicked in.    I really thought I had things rollin', and I did, until that BL load took me down.
> 
> ...


Well that does suck!
I wanted to see the SpaceHawk 100 pull off 100* T!  
Do it, do it, do it!


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## DoubleB (Jan 26, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> well, this sucks.





JRHAWK9 said:


> last night I had it maintaining 72°/73° with it being -26° outside and as soon as I loaded the BL for the night load the house temp started to trend down, 0.1° at a time, until it hit 68° and the LP thermostat called for heat.....6 3/4 hours after the night load.



I'm chuckling because I relate how painful it is for LP to kick in after all this effort to avoid it.  That said, given the stats you're showing above, I'm sure you're pretty satisfied overall, you have a great rig that you've made even better into a spaceship system.  

Think of what our grandfathers would think if they saw we some what's on this forum to keep our families comfortable.  

Good job JR!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 26, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well that does suck!
> I wanted to see the SpaceHawk 100 pull off 100* T!
> Do it, do it, do it!




lol...I'm sure Case1030 has achieved it plenty of times up there in the north country.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 26, 2019)

DoubleB said:


> Think of what our grandfathers would think if they saw we some what's on this forum to keep our families comfortable.



very true.....


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## brenndatomu (Jan 26, 2019)

DoubleB said:


> Think of what our grandfathers would think if they saw we some what's on this forum to keep our families comfortable.


Yes, think of all the old timers...the wood heat purists...old cast iron free standing stove, no window, just throw any old wood in it and it makes smoke, and heat...those guys would be doing a serious "facepalm" right now!


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## DoubleB (Jan 26, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I wanted to see the SpaceHawk 100



If "SpaceHawk 100" isn't an official term yet, I think it is now.  @JRHAWK9  what say you?  (It might be too late for you to vote though.)


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Jan 26, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> those guys would be doing a serious "facepalm" right now!



  I'm betting there are plenty on this site doing that right now.   




DoubleB said:


> If "SpaceHawk 100" isn't an official term yet, I think it is now.  @JRHAWK9  what say you?  (It might be too late for you to vote though.)



  I kinda like it.   Lots better than the word "anal" which is a term usually thrown around by others trying to quantify my actions at times.  Wait, that just sounded really bad.


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 27, 2019)

Well, miss Kuuma decided on a breakfast of a 50 lb mix of Ash, with a little Honey locust thrown in too.
I missed my guess just a bit on last nights load, was 71* when I got up at 7am...one more split thrown in would have kept things at 72* I'd bet.
2 hours after loading this AM she was cruising along on pilot, but my plenum temps were only 111*, which generally is not enough to drive the house temp up, unless it is warm out. (20* now)
Went down and turned the computer from low to medium/low...damper opened to 1 (smallest opening) and 1.5 minutes later the firebox temp went from 1170*F, to 1225*F, the damper closed (back to pilot burn) and the firebox temps slowly went up to 1315* F (and still climbing a bit when I left) amazing the difference a couple minutes of primary air makes!


Here is my remote temp monitor. Top is internal flue temp, lower is internal plenum temp...this was 10 minutes ago, the flue temp has dwindled to 235* now. Plenum temps will likely hit 117* here after a while...115-117* seems to do fine to raise the house temp.


It will be interesting to see how things go mid week when we get the -10 low and 0 high they are talking about!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 27, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> It will be interesting to see how things go mid week when we get the -10 low and 0 high they are talking about!



Just crank it up and let 'er eat....you'll be fine.

Heading outside now to do some things, now that it's warmed up to -2°.     Actually feels sorta "nice"....at least it doesn't hurt to breathe thru your nose anyway.  

The last four days......  -3°, -21°, -28°, -16°

Tuesday and Wednesday are going to be brutal for us.  -50° wind chills and temps pushing -30° once again BOTH nights.  High on Wednesday -13°.


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## maple1 (Jan 27, 2019)

Were in a January thaw here. Well, its below freezing this weekend but barely and nice and sunny. We had 2 weather events this past week that saw one day temp spikes to +10c and about 4" of rain all told.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 28, 2019)

yikes........January's going out with a bang!


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## laynes69 (Jan 28, 2019)

Yeah we have -40 wind chills coming here. I turned on the LP furnace, for I don't feel like pushing the woodfurnace hard. I may not need it, however I wanted to make sure the LP furnace is okay. Gonna be a test for sure!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 28, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yikes........January's going out with a bang!
> View attachment 239488


​Wow! Seems like you guys are always 20* colder than us here!
They are saying -10* temp, -30* wind chill, maybe -40* with higher gusts.
Gonna run the Kuuma on high, try for 8 hr loads...but if it isn't going well I will not push the issue, just back off and fire the Drolet 1400i up too...rather run the both on "cruise control" than run either one super hard.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 28, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> ​Gonna run the Kuuma on high, try for 8 hr loads...but if it isn't going well I will not push the issue, just back off and fire the Drolet 1400i up too...rather run the both on "cruise control" than run either one super hard.



yeah, I really wish I had an insert where our conventional fireplace is.  We haven't had a fire in that since installing the Kuuma.  It just sits there looking pretty. To put one in would require a bunch of masonry work and thus $$$$.

You should try to stagger the loadings, so when one is needing a re-load the other is mid-burn in order to avoid a drop in supplied BTU's to the house.


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 28, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> You should try to stagger the loadings, so when one is needing a re-load the other is mid-burn in order to avoid a drop in supplied BTU's to the house.


I would, if my schedule allowed...


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 28, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> Yeah we have -40 wind chills coming here. I turned on the LP furnace, for I don't feel like pushing the woodfurnace hard. I may not need it, however I wanted to make sure the LP furnace is okay. Gonna be a test for sure!




I fully expect the LP to kick in a morning or two at some point.  It's going to take a ton of BTU's to heat this place in -30° temps for that long of a duration.  It's times like this where I'm glad I have things setup the way I do.  Peace of mind knowing the LP can kick in and out as it needs to while the Kuuma is doing it's thing. 

The LP furnace should also be glad (or is it us....LOL)  to have the Kuuma, as I'm pretty sure our 75K BTU LP furnace alone would struggle to heat this place in -30° temps.  In fact, they have been saying, in WI, heating systems are designed for -10° to -15°.  If you have a programmable thermostat which lets temps fall when not at home they recommend you cancel it and keep house temp up throughout the day until the cold snap ends.  Letting the house temp fall may result in the furnace not being able to bring it back up again.  I also just got a reminder of this from my HVAC buddy, who normally keeps his set at 60° at night.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 28, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I would, if my schedule allowed...




Sleep is over-rated


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## brenndatomu (Jan 28, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I also just got a reminder of this from my HVAC buddy, who normally keeps his set at 60° at night.


Didja tell him yours kicks on at 70*?!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 28, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Didja tell him yours kicks on at 70*?!



Like with most HVAC guys, he is not too keen on wood heat.  I don't know if he sees it as threat or what.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 28, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Sleep is over-rated


No...when you are over 40...and have little kids...its not!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 28, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Like with most HVAC guys, he is not too keen on wood heat.  I don't know if he sees it as threat or what.


That, and wood furnace setup flies in the face of some (most) of their training and some of their logic!


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 28, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> No...when you are over 40...and have little kids...its not!



TRUTH!! 24/7 tired... they drain you! 

Flip side.. got my soon to be 12 year old, on his half day today, to fill the bulkhead  with wood.


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## sloeffle (Jan 29, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Gonna run the Kuuma on high, try for 8 hr loads...but if it isn't going well I will not push the issue, just back off and fire the Drolet 1400i up too...rather run the both on "cruise control" than run either one super hard.​



Drive it like you stole it.  What I tell my dad when he is babying every new car he buys. 

Back on topic, I can run my geo and wood furnace at the same time too but I'm going to see if the Caddy can handle the load all by itself. It is suppose to be a balmy -7F tonight and tomorrow night without the windchill. That is nothing compared to the temps @JRHAWK9 and @Case1030 are going to get. Unfortunately the ash I've been burning this year isn't the best. I've cherry picked the good pieces and kept them for the next couple days.​


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 29, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> Drive it like you stole it.  What I tell my dad when he is babying every new car he buys.
> 
> Back on topic, I can run my geo and wood furnace at the same time too but I'm going to see if the Caddy can handle the load all by itself. It is suppose to be a balmy -7F tonight and tomorrow night without the windchill. That is nothing compared to the temps @JRHAWK9 and @Case1030 are going to get. Unfortunately the ash I've been burning this year isn't the best. I've cherry picked the good pieces and kept them for the next couple days.​



I agree.....let 'er rip!  or as they say today....just SEND IT!   

It was 0° by us at bedtime, -7° when I got up and now it's -4°.  House is 76° though!







It's been a good week for the other half to be gone, as I have to go home at lunch and let the dogs out, so I've also been breaking up my larger morning load into two smaller loads.  One in the morning before work and one when I go home for lunch.  I also think the smaller loads actually tend to heat better.  Thinking I will be doing that tonight.  Loading two half loads tonight instead of one large one.  Set the alarm to get my butt up to reload.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 29, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I agree.....let 'er rip! or as they say today....just SEND IT!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 29, 2019)

Remember, however bad you think it is, it could always be worse!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 29, 2019)

meanwhile, I'm charging my "storage", with some help from the sun.    Kuuma has been on high since this morning.






At lunch I also got gas in my car before the cold hits.  Man, it's only -2°, but with the sustained 20mph and 30mph gusts it was down right nasty standing outside waiting for the tank to fill.  Exposed skin started to get painful in short order, when subjected to the wind.

Oh, and then on the way back to work I saw some guy riding his BICYCLE on the sidewalk.  At least he was riding with the wind.


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## sloeffle (Jan 30, 2019)

Stuffed the furnace ( you are welcome @JRHAWK9 ) about three quarters full last night and woke up around 4AM to the house at 70. It was 70 when I went to bed, so I can't complain there. Put four pretty big splits in and when I got up around 7:30 ( had to stay home with the kid today ) the house was 68 and it was 2F out. Burned charcoal for few hours and then loaded it back up around 10 or 11. Outside temps dropped to about -5F and it has climbed back to 0F. I've been loading the furnace about every 6 - 8 hours. House has maintained about 70 or so. We generally don't keep it much above 70. I can't sleep in a warm house.

During these cold temperatures I do miss throwing some oak, locust or cherry into the mix. I've exclusively been burning ash from EAB infected trees that have blown over. Should have some better woods to burn next year. I learned my lesson.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 30, 2019)

I cheated, I built up the house temp to 77°/78° yesterday with the Kuuma, knowing I was going to be losing more BTU's than I could produce, on average, over the burn cycle at the temps we were going to be seeing.  Outside temps fell from -2° at 2:30pm to -20° at midnight to -28° at 7am when I got up.  I did smaller lighter loads, so I went to bed at midnight, up at 4am to load and then up again at 7am to load and go to work. I'm able to burn more wood with multiple lighter loads than one big one.  In these temps, in this sieve of a house, it's all about how fast I can burn the wood, as more wood burned equals more BTU's to the house.  May not be burning as efficiently, but the end result is more heat to the house.  I burned 210 lbs yesterday.  When I went to bed at 12am, it was 75° in the house and -20° outside.  When I got up at 4am it was 73° and was 71° in the house at 7am (-28° outside).  It's still 71° right now while it warmed up to -12° outside.  If I wanted to stay up all night I am confident I could have kept the house temp up higher throughout the night by keeping the Kuuma burning hotter towards the end of the burns by keeping the coals raked forward.  This is what I was doing before I went to bed and the house was staying pretty good. 

May get close to -40° by us tonight (real temp, not wind chill). Forecast says -35°, but we are always a bit cooler being in a lower lying area.   

Really wish this house was sealed/insulated better.  Part of it is just the style of the house, with no attic and only ~18" of airspace separating the inside ceiling from the cold outside.  The majority of it though is just wasn't built/insulated well and/or with efficiency in mind.    No excuse in having the amount of heat leaving the roof peak line as what we have.  Heck, even the neighbor mentioned something about it to me a couple years ago when helping him with firewood.  Mentioned how he notices snow does not stay on the roof for very long and how we must be losing a lot of heat up there.  My response was, yeah, I know, thanks for reminding me.  

Every year when we get a cold snap I get a bug up my a$$ to either look into fixing the numerous insulation/sealing issues we have or look into replacing our fireplace with an HE one.  Unfortunately, both options are pricey.  Then I look at how much the LP furnace actually runs during winter and realize I'd never see the return on investment.  Last year it costed us $5 in LP for it to run when we needed it to.  It ran a total of 4 hours.  Even if some improvement was as cheap as $1,000, it would take us 200 years before we saw the return.   

Sorry for rambling, just "typing" out loud.


----------



## laynes69 (Jan 30, 2019)

I cheated and turned on my LP for about 5 minutes. Took the house up 2 degrees. Its -5 here now and it's been 70-71 in the house all day, but with the wind feels a little chilly. My lp furnace is oversized now that we have tightened up the house, so by the time the furnace blower kicks off, the house is at least a degree above its set point. I'm not going to worry about kicking the LP on here and there.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 30, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> I'm not going to worry about kicking the LP on here and there.



I go into every winter saying the same thing.  Then months later I see a cold forecast and I immediately take it as a challenge.......and then that becomes my mindset.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2019)

Well, the worst of this cold spell has passed now...a balmy 8* here for the predicted high today...wind chills are a least 30* higher than yesterday. Never did have to crank the fireplace stove up then...never even had to run the Kuuma on high, medium was the highest setting I used. House was 72* most of the time...had a peak of 73 a time or two...hit 71 a few times...a low of 70 once for a few minutes right after a reload.
I calculate ~150 lbs of wood burnt yesterday.
There is no way the old Tundra would have kept up with this weather...especially considering the added space that we are heating now.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 31, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well, the worst of this cold spell has passed now...a balmy 8* here for the predicted high today...wind chills are a least 30* higher than yesterday. Never did have to crank the fireplace stove up then...never even had to run the Kuuma on high, medium was the highest setting I used. House was 72* most of the time...had a peak of 73 a time or two...hit 71 a few times...a low of 70 once for a few minutes right after a reload.
> I calculate ~150 lbs of wood burnt yesterday.
> There is now way the old Tundra would have kept up with this weather...especially considering the added space that we are heating now.



It's nice to have a real back to back comparison of heat output.  If anything to help others decide on what to purchase.  I don't know what the original Tundra you had was rated for, but the Tundra II is actually rated for a higher heat output than the VF100 is.  I still think the Kuuma is a bit underrated.  Maybe it has to do with the more "peaky" heat output of the Tundra vs the more even heat output throughout the burn of the Kuuma which makes it heat better overall.

Similar to hp in cars.  One car may have higher peak HP while another has less peak HP but make more HP throughout the rpm range....a flatter HP curve and more area under the curve.  Unless the driver can keep the first one right in it's peak HP rpm range at all times, the one with the flatter HP curve throughout the rpm range will be faster.


----------



## sloeffle (Jan 31, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Maybe it has to do with the more "peaky" heat output of the Tundra vs the more even heat output throughout the burn of the Kuuma which makes it heat better overall.


I'd agree with that statement one-hundred percent. After I reloaded I noticed the house would get to 71 or so and then throughout the burn it would drop down to 70 or so. When I was burning coals the house would get down to 69 or stay at 70. I'm heating close to 3k square feet ( basement included ) so I'm probably on the high end of what the Caddy was designed to heat.

Does the Kuuma have the coaling "problem" like the Caddy and Tundra's have ? Or maybe ash just creates a lot of coals.


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> Does the Kuuma have the coaling "problem" like the Caddy and Tundra's have ? Or maybe ash just creates a lot of coals.


It would if you were really pushing it _hard_...like trying to maintain a certain temp in a house that is just too big (or too leaky) for a VF100 to handle. But if you are even somewhat reasonable with your expectations, then no.
I would say @JRHAWK9  is getting *100%* out of the SpaceHawk 100 ©   and I don't think coaling has been unmanageable...


----------



## Case1030 (Jan 31, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well, the worst of this cold spell has passed now...a balmy 8* here for the predicted high today...wind chills are a least 30* higher than yesterday. Never did have to crank the fireplace stove up then...never even had to run the Kuuma on high, medium was the highest setting I used. House was 72* most of the time...had a peak of 73 a time or two...hit 71 a few times...a low of 70 once for a few minutes right after a reload.
> I calculate ~150 lbs of wood burnt yesterday.
> There is no way the old Tundra would have kept up with this weather...especially considering the added space that we are heating now.



How do you think your old vf 200 would have made out? 

By what I'm hearing the vf200 is more comparable to the tundra, and the vf100 is closer to the Heatpro.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2019)

I would have needed the fireplace stove to help out if I still had the 200, for sure.
Comparing the Tundra to the VF200 for heat output is probably fair.


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## Case1030 (Jan 31, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> I'd agree with that statement one-hundred percent. After I reloaded I noticed the house would get to 71 or so and then throughout the burn it would drop down to 70 or so. When I was burning coals the house would get down to 69 or stay at 70. I'm heating close to 3k square feet ( basement included ) so I'm probably on the high end of what the Caddy was designed to heat.
> 
> Does the Kuuma have the coaling "problem" like the Caddy and Tundra's have ? Or maybe ash just creates a lot of coals.



Gotta get your hands on some pine. Rake coals forward and toss a few splits on top wide open... good heat output and melts the coals to powder.


I found the same thing with ash (although I was burning borderline seasoned ash.)


----------



## Case1030 (Jan 31, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I would have needed the fireplace stove to help out if I still had the 200, for sure.
> Comparing the Tundra to the VF200 for heat output is probably fair.



I looked for quite a while (maybe not hard enough), can't seem to find firebox size of the vf 100/200?


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Jan 31, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> Does the Kuuma have the coaling "problem" like the Caddy and Tundra's have ? Or maybe ash just creates a lot of coals.






brenndatomu said:


> It would if you were really pushing it _hard_...like trying to maintain a certain temp in a house that is just too big (or too leaky) for a VF100 to handle. But if you are even somewhat reasonable with your expectations, then no.
> I would say @JRHAWK9  is getting *100%* out of the SpaceHawk 100 ©   and I don't think coaling has been unmanageable...



Like bren said, it's not an issue at all when not in the mode of trying to burn wood fast.  Then it's just a minor nuisance.  I don't ever load on a crazy amount of coals though, as this will only push the issue down the road and make it even a bigger issue then.

Type of wood also makes a big difference.  I'd think burning pine during the real cold nights would work out great for needing to load aggressively.  It doesn't leave much for coals and pretty much turns to powder.  Just need to re-load more, as I could probably only fit 30-40lbs of pine in my firebox.  I heard Elm is similar.    



Case1030 said:


> I looked for quite a while (maybe not hard enough), can't seem to find firebox size of the vf 100/200?



4.1CF for the VF100


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> I looked for quite a while (maybe not hard enough), can't seem to find firebox size of the vf 100/200?


Vf200 = 3.3CF
Vf100 = 4.1CF


----------



## NoobTube (Jan 31, 2019)

Curious are your homes single level and what square footage are you at? Also how many cords do you anticipate going through this year?


----------



## Case1030 (Jan 31, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Like bren said, it's not an issue at all when not in the mode of trying to burn wood fast.  Then it's just a minor nuisance.  I don't ever load on a crazy amount of coals though, as this will only push the issue down the road and make it even a bigger issue then.
> 
> Type of wood also makes a big difference.  I'd think burning pine during the real cold nights would work out great for needing to load aggressively.  It doesn't leave much for coals and pretty much turns to powder.  Just need to re-load more, as I could probably only fit 30-40lbs of pine in my firebox.  I heard Elm is similar.
> 
> ...




What I've found, long as I pull the coals to the front of the furnace I can actually load on a decent bed. Obviously can't fit as much wood in the fire box but by the time the logs are in their peak burn the coals are chewed up.

Only when I got behind on my heating is when the couple splits of pine ontop of the coals WOT realy gets the job done...

I'm curious. If you ignore the high temp alarm (which my understanding is mainly a warning) can you still load on decent coal bed with the coals over the grate? Not sure if you tried that... but I'd think you would have the same experience with the coals melting down faster?


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 31, 2019)

NoobTube said:


> Curious are your homes single level and what square footage are you at? Also how many cords do you anticipate going through this year?


Mine is a brick cape cod style from 1940, with ok insulation. 1200 sq ft basement, the same on ground floor, then another 650 sq ft upstairs. The basement is partially finished.
I usually use 4-5 cords per year depending on how long heating season lasts...and we are 100% wood heat.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Jan 31, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> I'm curious. If you ignore the high temp alarm (which my understanding is mainly a warning) can you still load on decent coal bed with the coals over the grate? Not sure if you tried that... but I'd think you would have the same experience with the coals melting down faster?



The high temp doesn't get triggered all the time, but yeah, I load on a bunch of coals every time when it's cold out.

I sometimes use a piece of dimensional lumber to burn coals down.  Burns hot and doesn't really leave any additional coals.

What I normally load on in the dead of winter.  Even more when I have to push it.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Jan 31, 2019)

NoobTube said:


> Curious are your homes single level and what square footage are you at? Also how many cords do you anticipate going through this year?



Log cabin style with 23.5' tall 12/12 pitch roof.  ~1,300SF main, ~1,300SF basement and an additional ~500SF loft.  Have ~32,000CF of air space though due to the tall ceilings and no attic space.  So equivalent airspace to heating a rectangle building with a 32'x42' footprint with almost 24' tall walls........or a 2 story home w/ 8' walls totaling  ~4,000SF including the basement.       

The basement is heated just from radiant heat off the Kuuma.  The furnace area (~1/4 of the basement) stays roughly the same temp as the rest of the house.  The other part of the basement, which is walled off and only has an open doorway joining the two areas, stays 4-5° cooler or so. 

I burn, on average, 16,000 lbs of wood in a heating season.  Convert that to whatever species suits your fancy.


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## sloeffle (Jan 31, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Gotta get your hands on some pine. Rake coals forward and toss a few splits on top wide open... good heat output and melts the coals to powder.
> 
> I found the same thing with ash (although I was burning borderline seasoned ash.)


Very few pines in this part of the country. We are in prime hardwood country. The only pines that are around are in people yards. 

I have more ash on the ground right now than what I'll burn for the next 10 years. Unfortunately a lot of it is going to waste because I can't get to it fast enough. I keep telling my neighbors to come over and get it but they are getting ash from other people too.


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## sloeffle (Jan 31, 2019)

NoobTube said:


> Curious are your homes single level and what square footage are you at? Also how many cords do you anticipate going through this year?


My home is a ranch. We are heating approximately a little over 2,200 of living space plus a 768 square ft basement, so we are close to 3k square feet total. The 768 square feet of living space we added along with the basement is insulated extremely well ( R60 in the attic, foamed 2x6 walls, low E windows, foamed basement walls ) and the other 1,400 square feet is insulated okay. 

I burn around 1.5 - 2.5 cords of hardwoods a year depending on the winter. This year I am at about 1.5 cords burned already. Unlike some of the others I don't burn full time. I only burn when day times temperatures are below 35 - 40.  We have geothermal heating / cooling so I can easily heat my house for a $1 - $1.50 a day during mild winter days. IMHO it costs more to burn wood than that. The house gets too hot otherwise if I try to heat it with wood in those temps. I'd rather be cold than hot.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 3, 2019)

Never ceases to amaze me...it warms up a little bit and this place shuts down like a Chinese buffet after a health dept inspection! Its February folks...winter aint over yet!


----------



## sloeffle (Feb 3, 2019)

Trying to hang with @JRHAWK9 and @laynes69 in how warm I can keep my house. During the cold snap I was loading the wood furnace pretty heavy. I might of put two too many splits in the furnace late yesterday morning.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 3, 2019)

The polar vortex has left and we are now in "spring mode" for a few days.  I think mother nature needs to be on bi-polar medication.  In about 51 hours our temps went up 69∙°.   75 hours later we are now up 78° and everything is melting.    

Starting with 1/25 and ending on 1/31, six out of these seven days we had HHD's of 70+ (75, 78, 71, 58, 71, 84 , 84).  The LP furnace ran way less than I expected it to during this stretch.  It did run 25 minutes on the morning of the 26th due to a botched loading the night before by yours truly.  It then did kick in the morning of the 31st when it was -37° out and ran on/off for 86 minutes.  By this time the cold had really set in and the basement was starting to cool down.  Once this happens it makes it hard to heat, as my supply temps are down which then means the supply volume are also down.  This then leads to a snowball effect.  So, this cold snap cost us ~$2.50 in LP. 

Yesterday was above freezing and the house temp was high enough.  I decided to shut down the Kuuma to clean the HX and to look at my stove pipe.  I have had a OAK attached to my BD since the very first fire this fall and wanted to see how things looked after being sent ice cold air from this last cold snap.  Coldest temp I've seen being sent directly into the flue was -5° the morning it was -37°.

Cleaning the HX was a piece of cake, seeing it's just all white/tan flyash.  I just take a Scotch Brite scour pad and simply pass over all the metal areas and the flyash just falls right off exposing nice clean bare metal.  I access the HX from both the front cleanout cover as well as through the rear flue collar.  There is always ZERO creosote in the HX area, so it makes it real easy to get everything cleaned up real nice.

The stove pipe even looked great.  I know very early on, when I was doing cold starts every day, sometimes twice a day, I did see some signs of stage 1 creosote right at the BD tee when I peaked past the BD.  All I saw yesterday when I removed my stove pipe, was flyash.  There was some loose stuff in the stove pipe which I was able to vaccum up.  Here's a photo of the stove pipe right at the BD tee after I simply ran a vacuum over it.  You can see where I stopped vacuuming up near the 45° elbow at the top of the photo.  It's all just simply flyash.

Looks like the stage 1 creosote I was seeing early one just flaked off once I was able to start burning 24/7. 

Remember, the area in these photos are where the, already low temp, flue gasses get mixed with cold outside air.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 3, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> Trying to hang with @JRHAWK9 and @laynes69 in how warm I can keep my house. During the cold snap I was loading the wood furnace pretty heavy. I might of put two too many splits in the furnace late yesterday morning.
> 
> View attachment 240007




I did the same thing yesterday after I got done with the cleaning.  It was 77° in here


----------



## laynes69 (Feb 3, 2019)

Yeah, it was 77 in our house yesterday lol. I'm back to small fires.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 3, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Yesterday was above freezing and the house temp was high enough. I decided to shut down the Kuuma to clean the HX and to look at my stove pipe. I have had a OAK attached to my BD since the very first fire this fall and wanted to see how things looked after being sent ice cold air from this last cold snap. Coldest temp I've seen being sent directly into the flue was -5° the morning it was -37°.
> 
> Cleaning the HX was a piece of cake, seeing it's just all white/tan flyash. I just take a Scotch Brite scour pad and simply pass over all the metal areas and the flyash just falls right off exposing nice clean bare metal. I access the HX from both the front cleanout cover as well as through the rear flue collar. There is always ZERO creosote in the HX area, so it makes it real easy to get everything cleaned up real nice.
> 
> The stove pipe even looked great. I know very early on, when I was doing cold starts every day, sometimes twice a day, I did see some signs of stage 1 creosote right at the BD tee when I peaked past the BD. All I saw yesterday when I removed my stove pipe, was flyash. There was some loose stuff in the stove pipe which I was able to vaccum up. Here's a photo of the stove pipe right at the BD tee after I simply ran a vacuum over it. You can see where I stopped vacuuming up near the 45° elbow at the top of the photo. It's all just simply flyash.


Yeah I decided to do the same here this morning...thought it would only take me an hour...but it took 2 'til I got done screwing around...missed church services because of it...oops! 
Mine looked pretty much the same as @JRHAWK9 's...all flyash and light dry fluffy soot. Knocked it off with the Sooteater and sucked up with the shopvac. I just fired back up now and it appears that the flue temps are down about 50* from where they had been running on the top end of the range, when the firebox is still building to normal operating temps. I'm expecting to see the 2* that I've lost off my peak plenum temps to return too.


	

		
			
		

		
	
 This is before cleaning (obviously) not sure why, but the picture makes the buildup look way worse than it was. (thicker/heavier) I have the same direct connect OAK setup that JR does, and pretty much the same results...


	

		
			
		

		
	
 HX before cleaning...


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 3, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> This is before cleaning (obviously) not sure why, but the picture makes the buildup look way worse than it was. (thicker/heavier) I have the same direct connect OAK setup that JR does, and pretty much the same results...



Your clingers probably stayed clinging because of the flatter slope on your stove pipe.  My buildup on the pipe looked less, but I had some accumulated  at my 45° bend at the collar.  They probably couldn't hang on anymore at 45°.     All I did was vacuum it and it cleaned right up.



brenndatomu said:


> I just fired back up now and it appears that the flue temps are down about 50* from where they had been running on the top end of the range, when the firebox is still building to normal operating temps. I'm expecting to see the 2* that I've lost off my peak plenum temps to return too.



Same here, my plenum temps went back up and my flue temps went back down.  Crazy how much a thin layer of flyash can insulate the metal in the HX.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 3, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Your clingers probably stayed clinging because of the flatter slope on your stove pipe. My buildup on the pipe looked less, but I had some accumulated at my 45° bend at the collar. They probably couldn't hang on anymore at 45°.  All I did was vacuum it and it cleaned right up.


Yeah, could be...that, and I run my draft at the low end, -0.04"


----------



## STIHLY DAN (Feb 3, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> well, this sucks.
> 
> Soon as I did the night load of mostly BL the house started to lose temp.  At 6:45am, with outside temps -27°, the LP furnace kicked in.    I really thought I had things rollin', and I did, until that BL load took me down.
> 
> ...



YES. especially with hickory.. The densest woods have a longer burn time but don't burn as hot. Like pine is the exact opposite.


----------



## STIHLY DAN (Feb 3, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Like with most HVAC guys, he is not too keen on wood heat.  I don't know if he sees it as threat or what.


This Hvac guy loves it. But I hate that I am out fixing fossil fuel units when it is really cold, instead of relaxing and enjoying my warm, wood heat house..


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## JRHAWK9 (Feb 4, 2019)

The nice thing about monitoring various temps as some of us do is the fact that we KNOW what temps are normal and are to be expected.  If and when we see any deviation from this norm it raises a flag.  Case in point, I started to notice my flue temps were higher than normal and my plenum temps were lower than normal.  Told me right away my HX needed a cleaning.  IMO, without monitoring certain temps you are running blind.


----------



## NoobTube (Feb 4, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Log cabin style with 23.5' tall 12/12 pitch roof.  ~1,300SF main, ~1,300SF basement and an additional ~500SF loft.  Have ~32,000CF of air space though due to the tall ceilings and no attic space.  So equivalent airspace to heating a rectangle building with a 32'x42' footprint with almost 24' tall walls........or a 2 story home w/ 8' walls totaling  ~4,000SF including the basement.
> 
> The basement is heated just from radiant heat off the Kuuma.  The furnace area (~1/4 of the basement) stays roughly the same temp as the rest of the house.  The other part of the basement, which is walled off and only has an open doorway joining the two areas, stays 4-5° cooler or so.
> 
> I burn, on average, 16,000 lbs of wood in a heating season.  Convert that to whatever species suits your fancy.



Wow. Thats pretty awesome. I tried to heat full-time with my insert in my 2100sqft colonial and i went through 3 cords already this year, likely going to need another.

I don't even heat my basement, but my set up would have been pretty optimal for a Kuuma. I have ducts from my heat pump running through the basement and supplying the first floor. I imagine it would have heated my second floor pretty well too.

Its like that Cher song... 'If I could turn back time'...


----------



## Case1030 (Feb 4, 2019)

How often are you guys cleaning the HX on your Kuumas?


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 4, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> How often are you guys cleaning the HX on your Kuumas?


I'm guessing I'll wait 'til spring for the next one...but I'll do it as needed I suppose...as JR said, when the normal flue temps go up, and the normal plenum temp goes down, its time.


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## JRHAWK9 (Feb 5, 2019)

NoobTube said:


> Wow. Thats pretty awesome. I tried to heat full-time with my insert in my 2100sqft colonial and i went through 3 cords already this year, likely going to need another.
> 
> I don't even heat my basement, but my set up would have been pretty optimal for a Kuuma. I have ducts from my heat pump running through the basement and supplying the first floor. I imagine it would have heated my second floor pretty well too.
> 
> Its like that Cher song... 'If I could turn back time'...




I originally was looking at replacing our conventional fireplace with an insert of some kind.  If the quotes I received would have been about half of what they were, we probably would have gone that route.  Back then I didn't even know about wood furnaces and was set on just simply getting something more efficient than what we had.  Man, sure glad we didn't go that route.  I know for a fact a single point source of heat would not have done a good job in heating our place.



Case1030 said:


> How often are you guys cleaning the HX on your Kuumas?



This is the very time time I've cleaned it during a heating season.  The previous 4 years I just cleaned it once in fall before I fired it up for the year.


----------



## Mrpelletburner (Feb 5, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I have had a OAK attached to my BD since the very first fire this fall and wanted to see how things looked after being sent ice cold air from this last cold snap.



Can you post photos of your OAK setup?


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 5, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Can you post photos of your OAK setup?



If you look around at my posts I think I posted pics a couple times.


----------



## Mrpelletburner (Feb 5, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> If you look around at my posts I think I posted pics a couple times.



Found the thread... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ust-how-clean-does-a-kuuma-vf100-burn.168711/


----------



## NoobTube (Feb 5, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I originally was looking at replacing our conventional fireplace with an insert of some kind.  If the quotes I received would have been about half of what they were, we probably would have gone that route.  Back then I didn't even know about wood furnaces and was set on just simply getting something more efficient than what we had.  Man, sure glad we didn't go that route.  I know for a fact a single point source of heat would not have done a good job in heating our place.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the very time time I've cleaned it during a heating season.  The previous 4 years I just cleaned it once in fall before I fired it up for the year.



I think my full cost for my insert + Install + Liner + Surround was right around $4,300. Granted, less than what a VF-100 or 200 costs, but there is no comparison in heat output and efficiency. Also, I have bilco-doors to my basement, I would literally just create a rolling crate and toss the wood down the stairs into it to feed the furnace. Wife would have been so happy I wasnt bringing wood into the house... Oh well. Perhaps the next house, or if I win some money on a scratch off one day...


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 5, 2019)

NoobTube said:


> I think my full cost for my insert + Install + Liner + Surround was right around $4,300.



yep, that's what we were hoping the estimates were going to be.  They were quoting us $10K  A lot of it was because the Heat n Glow EM42 fireplace would have had to have been removed and would of required a bunch of masonry work and deconstructing of our existing hearth to get it out.


----------



## NoobTube (Feb 5, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yep, that's what we were hoping the estimates were going to be.  They were quoting us $10K  A lot of it was because the Heat n Glow EM42 fireplace would have had to have been removed and would of required a bunch of masonry work and deconstructing of our existing hearth to get it out.



Ouch. Gladly, mine was purely the liner + vermiculite insulation + install labor + stove cost.

To be clear, if I magically had the money to do the VF100 I'd do it in a heartbeat, although I'd probably change out my current flexible ducts for hard pipe ducts. I know a guy


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 9, 2019)

Got a load of Kuuma chow today...should be done baking by '22 or '23


----------



## Case1030 (Feb 9, 2019)

Working on next seasons supply aswell.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 9, 2019)

I too went out and added to my winter pile, which will be getting split/stacked in March/April.  Thinking so far I have between 5-7 cord once again.  Always seem to cut/haul more than I burn.  Won't be burned for a long time though....thinking 2029ish.    I may end up selling some though if LP prices ever go nuts.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 9, 2019)

yikes...just peaked at my wood supply spreadsheet; after removing what I burned this year so far, I'm still at 51+ cord of hardwoods and 3 cord of pine/poplar.  I'll probably be right around the 60 cord total mark once I get this years haul split/stacked.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 9, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yikes...just peaked at my wood supply spreadsheet; after removing what I burned this year so far, I'm still at 51+ cord of hardwoods and 3 cord of pine/poplar.  I'll probably be right around the 60 cord total mark once I get this years haul split/stacked.
> 
> View attachment 240522


----------



## Case1030 (Feb 9, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yikes...just peaked at my wood supply spreadsheet; after removing what I burned this year so far, I'm still at 51+ cord of hardwoods and 3 cord of pine/poplar.  I'll probably be right around the 60 cord total mark once I get this years haul split/stacked.
> 
> 
> View attachment 240522



Trying to get a mental image of where you store all this wood? 55 cords is alot of space.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 9, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Trying to get a mental image of where you store all this wood? 55 cords is alot of space.


Meh...it only covers 1760 sq ft in wood 4' deep...
That's only 1/25th of an acre...


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 9, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Trying to get a mental image of where you store all this wood? 55 cords is alot of space.



This is a couple years ago.  There's a bit more out there now.  Turn up the volume if you want to hear the aviary....   I believe the loud one is a sandhill crane.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 9, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Meh...it only covers 1760 sq ft in wood 4' deep...
> That's only 1/25th of an acre...




I stack about 5'-9" tall on top of pallets, so the tops of the stacks are about eye height to me.  I'm 6'5".  They do lose their height as time passes and as they season.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 9, 2019)

This is what that same area looked like at the end of April 2014.  Pretty much the same time I ordered the Kuuma.  

I had ~10-15 cord in another area which is what I burned first while I built up my reserves here.


----------



## Case1030 (Feb 10, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> This is a couple years ago.  There's a bit more out there now.  Turn up the volume if you want to hear the aviary....   I believe the loud one is a sandhill crane.




Ohh that's a pretty good setup you got there.

I'm gonna have to get my ass in gear. Soon as we get some decent weather will have to nail down a few cords of oak. ( -20f to much time to drink beer by the fire)... been in a deep freeze since the polar vortex.

It sure would be nice to have a 5 year wood supply like yourself.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 10, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> so the tops of the stacks are about eye height to me. I'm 6'5"


Ah, a fellow member of the tall guys club, eh? 6' 4" here.
And it might be just me, but I've noticed that it seems there are a disproportionate amount of tall guys do the wood heat thing...


----------



## woodey (Feb 10, 2019)

And all these years I was thinking that Paul Bunyan was a fictional character.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Feb 10, 2019)

woodey said:


> And all these years I was thinking that Paul Bunyan was a fictional character.




Well, my first name is Paul and my last name also has six characters and shares three of them in common and in the correct position.   Last name is XunXXn (X's are placeholders of the letters not in common and two out of the three are also vowels).    Thanks for pointing that out though, as I never made the connection.  




brenndatomu said:


> Ah, a fellow member of the tall guys club, eh? 6' 4" here.
> And it might be just me, but I've noticed that it seems there are a disproportionate amount of tall guys do the wood heat thing...



Bare foot I'm probably closer to 6'4".  Heck, I'm getting to the age where I may start shrinking.    Gives us a mechanical advantage when splitting bigger rounds in halve.   




Case1030 said:


> It sure would be nice to have a 5 year wood supply like yourself.



5 year    Do you really burn over 2x's what I burn?  I average 16,170 lbs per heating season.  Using 3,650lbs per cord of red oak, this comes out to ~4.4 cords of red oak per heating season.


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## Case1030 (Feb 10, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Well, my first name is Paul and my last name also has six characters and shares three of them in common and in the correct position.   Last name is XunXXn (X's are placeholders of the letters not in common and two out of the three are also vowels).    Thanks for pointing that out though, as I never made the connection.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol sorry for the misunderstanding... I'm around the 4-5 cord mark myself but I have customers who buy a couple cords off me every year. 

So I need to css 10 cords every year. I do have a 2 year rotation but only seem to get ahead 1 cord per year.


----------



## sloeffle (Feb 10, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yikes...just peaked at my wood supply spreadsheet; after removing what I burned this year so far, I'm still at 51+ cord of hardwoods and 3 cord of pine/poplar.  I'll probably be right around the 60 cord total mark once I get this years haul split/stacked.


If I that much wood C/S/S I'd never C/S/S another piece of wood in my life. With the amount of wood I burn, that would take me to roughly age 70. Hopefully by then I'll be wintering in a state that isn't Ohio. 

Edit: That is pretty awesome @JRHAWK9.


----------



## sloeffle (Feb 10, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Got a load of Kuuma chow today...should be done baking by '22 or '23


I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person in the world that has a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 foot bed on it. Everyday going to work I see folks driving their 60k Cowboy Cadillac's with those little 4 foot beds on them.

That conversation is probably another topic for another thread for another day.


----------



## Mrpelletburner (Feb 10, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Ah, a fellow member of the tall guys club, eh? 6' 4" here.
> And it might be just me, but I've noticed that it seems there are a disproportionate amount of tall guys do the wood heat thing...



Well I am a proud card holding member of the short guy aka the “Napoleon syndrome club”!

5’ 5.5” (yes, that 1/2” counts)

While we are not out of the woods yet, I think we will go through 4-5 cords.


----------



## Case1030 (Feb 10, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person in the world that has a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 foot bed on it. Everyday going to work I see folks driving their 60k Cowboy Cadillac's with those little 4 foot beds on them.
> 
> That conversation is probably another topic for another thread for another day.



8ft box would be nice. I manage to make a 6ft work though. Got 1 ton suspension with overloads. I push the limit... knock on wood haven't broken anything yet.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 10, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person in the world that has a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 foot bed on it.


To be honest I was kinda looking for a short bed...but was also a bit torn as the extra room in the long bed is nice too. When this truck came along, the deal was right, so my choice was made for me.


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## Highbeam (Feb 12, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> To be honest I was kinda looking for a short bed...but was also a bit torn as the extra room in the long bed is nice too. When this truck came along, the deal was right, so my choice was made for me.



On the big fords the "short bed" is 7 feet long so it's not really that short. Look at the bright side, you got a much larger fuel tank.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 12, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> On the big fords the "short bed" is 7 feet long so it's not really that short. Look at the bright side, you got a much larger fuel tank.


I was thinking they were 6.5'...turns out we are both wrong...6' 8.81"  
http://www.truckbedsizes.com/f250/


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## Highbeam (Feb 12, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I was thinking they were 6.5'...turns out we are both wrong...6' 8.81"
> http://www.truckbedsizes.com/f250/



I was closer! I ended up with the short bed f350 and haven’t regretted it except for the fuel tank issue. The tailgate lays down to support 8 foot sheets.


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## Gbawol42 (Feb 12, 2019)

Kuuma price going up March 1


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 12, 2019)

Being that far ahead really isn't that much fun. I haven't got any wood 2 years and wont need too for another 5 or 6. Then the truck will be dead, saw probably wont work and i will be old and feeble.. 50's. lol. I have to burn a stack out of order because the frost heaves have started making one stack crumble.. Getting to the 50 cord mark beat the crap out of big blue.. Thats my 02 ford 350 diesel. poor girl was abused.


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## maple1 (Feb 12, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Being that far ahead really isn't that much fun. I haven't got any wood 2 years and wont need too for another 5 or 6. Then the truck will be dead, saw probably wont work and i will be old and feeble.. 50's. lol. I have to burn a stack out of order because the frost heaves have started making one stack crumble.. Getting to the 50 cord mark beat the crap out of big blue.. Thats my 02 ford 350 diesel. poor girl was abused.



Sell some.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 12, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> I was closer!


Hmm...must be this "new math"...cause my "old math" says 6' 8.81" is closer to 6.5' than it is 7' (by .19")


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## Highbeam (Feb 12, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Hmm...must be this "new math"...cause my "old math" says 6' 8.81" is closer to 6.5' than it is 7' (by .19")



Dang it, you’re right.

I got caught on 6.5’ =6’6”

I did a lot of surveying in decimals if feet. It still haunts me!


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## brenndatomu (Feb 12, 2019)

Gbawol42 said:


> Kuuma price going up March 1
> View attachment 240741


I had heard this was coming...not surprising...we have noticed the same kind of material price increases at work too...


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## Case1030 (Feb 13, 2019)

Installed an Icm326 on dads Harman Pf 100 pellet furnace. He is very happy with the results.


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## JRHAWK9 (Feb 15, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Being that far ahead really isn't that much fun. I haven't got any wood 2 years and wont need too for another 5 or 6. Then the truck will be dead, saw probably wont work and i will be old and feeble.. 50's. lol. I have to burn a stack out of order because the frost heaves have started making one stack crumble.. Getting to the 50 cord mark beat the crap out of big blue.. Thats my 02 ford 350 diesel. poor girl was abused.





maple1 said:


> Sell some.



What he said.  I make wood because it gives me something to do in the winter.  It sure doesn't seem like I spend that much time cutting/hauling, but I always end up with more than I burn.  Which means my supply keeps getting bigger every year.  I don't plan on stopping, I may end up selling some down the road.  If LP prices ever spike, which drives wood prices up, I may sell some too.  There's not too many people selling true well seasoned wood.

All of my 60ish cords have been hauled with my ATV and Polar trailer.


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 16, 2019)

I could never sell it. I would rather give it away instead. I know how much work it was to get it, Cant handle the thought of working that hard and have it end up at $5 an hour.


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## Case1030 (Feb 16, 2019)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I could never sell it. I would rather give it away instead. I know how much work it was to get it, Cant handle the thought of working that hard and have it end up at $5 an hour.



Wood must sell cheap where you are?

All day long 2-3 year seasoned oak sells for $320-340 CAD per cord. Sounds high but that's what people pay. Alot of people are scared of work but want wood for there cabin or weekend burners.

Edit- Anyone burning full time here ether goes out and cuts their own wood or gets multiple cords delivered in 4ft lengths. (Pine, tamarack) minimum 5 cords delivered for $120)

Electricity is 0.086 per Kw here Natural Gas 0.091 m3 or $2.57 per thousand cubicfoot. Quite reasonable.


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## sloeffle (Feb 17, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> All day long 2-3 year seasoned oak sells for $320-340 CAD per cord. Sounds high but that's what people pay. Alot of people are scared of work but want wood for there cabin or weekend burners.



Wow - I'd be in the firewood business then. I have a friend that sells firewood, he gets between $125 - $150 US a cord delivered. He gets most of his wood for free though due to EAB. That is the average price for a cord in my area.


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 18, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Wood must sell cheap where you are?
> 
> All day long 2-3 year seasoned oak sells for $320-340 CAD per cord. Sounds high but that's what people pay. Alot of people are scared of work but want wood for there cabin or weekend burners.
> 
> ...



We pay $300 a cord of 16" de-barked 2-year-old oak. I think it is ~$275 with the bark. Order and stack in the spring and by fall it is ready to burn. Woodshed gets lots of sun and air flow during the summer.


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## STIHLY DAN (Feb 24, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Wood must sell cheap where you are?
> 
> All day long 2-3 year seasoned oak sells for $320-340 CAD per cord. Sounds high but that's what people pay. Alot of people are scared of work but want wood for there cabin or weekend burners.
> 
> ...



No, But as an average joe I go and cut it down, cut it up. load it, haul it home, unload it, split it then stack it. Without big equipment it is not worth selling.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

So I was impressed with how long the small load I put in last night lasted...it just occurred to me that it was actually an hour less than I thought!


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 10, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> So I was impressed with how long the small load I put in last night lasted...it just occurred to me that it was actually an hour less than I thought!



exact same thing here!  

I did a matchless relight at 6pm tonight "19 hours" after last night's 40.7lb load at 11pm.  Then I realized it really wasn't 19 hours but 18 hours.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

Wow...18 hours on 40 lbs, nothing to sneeze at!


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 11, 2019)

I did cheat however.  I did the "bren computer shut off" when I got up in the morning.  

What was surprising was the level of coals that were actually left when I went to re-load.  After I scraped everything forward and whisked the ashes into the ashpan, I piled a handful of coals over the ashpan grate.  I then opened the ash pan door and turned the computer back on (which was on 'cold') and then I gathered some small kindling.  By the time I came back I had a handful of glowing orange embers with even a small flame.  I just threw some smaller pieces on and that was that.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 11, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I did the "bren computer shut off"


Works pretty well in warmer weather, don't it?!


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## Mrpelletburner (Mar 11, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> and turned the computer back on



All I can vision...






And....


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 11, 2019)

Mrpelletburner said:


> All I can vision...
> 
> And....





not quite!


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 13, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Works pretty well in warmer weather, don't it?!



Just did a matchless re-light after 14.5 hours of loading 25lbs.  I did turn the computer off after 10 hours, the furnace was already on 'C' at that point though.  That 25lb load this morning was an actual relight in a cold/luke warm furnace too.  Didn't expect that.   

That 25lb load was all black walnut.  That stuff leaves a bunch of very fine fly ash behind, so the very few coals that were there were buried in the flyash and were uncovered when I scraped them forward. 

After the kindling took, I measured out my small night load, put it in the firebox, closed the door and walked away.  Just SOP for all us Kuuma owners.  5 minutes later the distribution blower kicks on and we are off.  Won't shut off till it's back down to barely any embers left in the firebox.


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## Case1030 (Mar 14, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Just did a matchless re-light after 14.5 hours of loading 25lbs.  I did turn the computer off after 10 hours, the furnace was already on 'C' at that point though.  That 25lb load this morning was an actual relight in a cold/luke warm furnace too.  Didn't expect that.
> 
> That 25lb load was all black walnut.  That stuff leaves a bunch of very fine fly ash behind, so the very few coals that were there were buried in the flyash and were uncovered when I scraped them forward.
> 
> After the kindling took, I measured out my small night load, put it in the firebox, closed the door and walked away.  Just SOP for all us Kuuma owners.  5 minutes later the distribution blower kicks on and we are off.  Won't shut off till it's back down to barely any embers left in the firebox.


Anyway to put a timer on your kummas computer? I know there are 8 even upto 12 hour itermatic spring timers. Save you from having to go down stairs every 10 hours.


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 14, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Anyway to put a timer on your kummas computer? I know there are 8 even upto 12 hour itermatic spring timers. Save you from having to go down stairs every 10 hours.



yeah, I'm sure there is.  Issue is the time-frame would change based on loadings.  In a perfect world, during the shoulder seasons, one would turn it off as soon as the computer goes to '3' (opens up all the way).  A 25lb load I'm betting the computer could be turned off around 4 hours after loading.  The point at which it does this is based on how much wood you load; assuming it's on minimum burn, which it should be during the shoulder seasons.  Good idea though.  Nice thing about weighing loadings, it's pretty much like clockwork, so it wouldn't be hard to collect data to figure out when to set the timer for at various weight loadings.  Although re-loading on coals is more efficient compared to starting from scratch, so one may have to take that into consideration as well.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 14, 2019)

Case1030 said:


> Anyway to put a timer on your kummas computer? I know there are 8 even upto 12 hour itermatic spring timers. Save you from having to go down stairs every 10 hours.


Yeah, and if you could rig up an automatic loader, you'd never hafta go downstairs!  

I actually did put a shutoff timer on my VF200...it worked well...I still have it, but haven't used it on the VF100 yet...thought about it, but I guess the 100 is a pretty good match for my house size wise, so I haven't really needed it yet...even though I'm sure I could gain a bit of efficiency by doing so...


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 14, 2019)

This morning was the very first morning


brenndatomu said:


> Yeah, and if you could rig up an automatic loader, you'd never hafta go downstairs!
> 
> I actually did put a shutoff timer on my VF200...it worked well...I still have it, but haven't used it on the VF100 yet...thought about it, but I guess the 100 is a pretty good match for my house size wise, so I haven't really needed it yet...even though I'm sure I could gain a bit of efficiency by doing so...



That's right, I forgot you did do that.  

I guess, for me, the only time I'd want the damper to close would be during the shoulder seasons when I don't need the higher BTU/hr rate and to just prolong the coals so I can prolong the next loading.  One would be spreading out the BTU's released to the house over a longer timeframe and not sending them up the chimney.


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