# Peerless boiler with bad tankless coil, advice please



## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

So we got our house 4 years ago and we have a Peerless oil boiler from 2004. The furnace is efficient  (84%) however the coil is going bad and either needs to be replaced or I need some other source of hot water. Initially I wanted to just replace the coil and with that I would need to relocate and replace the mixing value setup. I have a small furnace room and since we just got a pellet stove I would prefer not to run my boiler all summer and winter to heat the hot water. I am leaning towards a regular style 50 gallon hot water heater however to do this I would need to move my large gun safe out of my furnace room. We only use the one upstairs zone in our raised ranch for oil however again with a new pellet stove we hope to not use much oil at all. 

My question is after 7-10 years the coil is going bad. Would you place the coil and mixing value for about $1300 not knowing how long it will last or go with an electric hot water heater for a little less and use electric instead of oil to heat the water? 

I have also thought about a tankless gas and electric system AND an indirect system however the electric panel power isnt there and indirect is just too much damn $ right off the bat ($3k). 


Jay


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## velvetfoot (Sep 10, 2014)

I would, and have, gone electric, for sure.  I think CT has some great rebates on the Geospring heat pump water heater, which does make noise.  A regular electric water heater is totally silent.  You probably couldn't enclose the Geospring in a small furnace room though since it needs air volume.


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## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> I would, and have, gone electric, for sure.  I think CT has some great rebates on the Geospring heat pump water heater, which does make noise.  A regular electric water heater is totally silent.  You probably couldn't enclose the Geospring in a small furnace room though since it needs air volume.



The furnace makes noise and the room is not vented so I have to keep the door cracked open to give the boiler air. The previous owners had on two doors that were shut which was horrible for the boiler. We will be turning the downstairs into a play room for our daughter when she gets old enough and closing that room off. At that time I will put in a wall thimble for outside air.


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## avc8130 (Sep 10, 2014)

08specB said:


> The furnace makes noise and the room is not vented so I have to keep the door cracked open to give the boiler air. The previous owners had on two doors that were shut which was horrible for the boiler. We will be turning the downstairs into a play room for our daughter when she gets old enough and closing that room off. At that time I will put in a wall thimble for outside air.



Definitely go electric.  There is just no economy burning oil to heat DHW any more.

CT has AWESOME rebates on heat pump water heaters. I suggest you pick one up and plumb it in.  

ac


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## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

I breifly looked into a heat pump water heater and the initial cost is too much for me at this time. Great idea and tax benefits however the initial blow is just too much


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## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

I breifly looked into a heat pump water heater and the initial cost is too much for me at this time. Great idea and tax benefits however the initial blow is just too much


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## maple1 (Sep 10, 2014)

No way would I put the tankless coil back into service.

If you are considering spending $1300 to do that (which sounds like too much BTW), you could install a heat pump heater for waaaay less than that factoring in incentives. I would go ordinary electric hot water heater if you don't want to go heat pump. For what you'd spend in oil for heating DHW for one summer, you could almost buy a HPWH. I used to have a tankless coil in an oil boiler, I went thru somewhere around 3/4 gallons of oil per day in the summer just to keep that sucker hot enough to make hot water even if next to no hot water was being used. I am off the oil now altogether, removed my oil tank, and heat my water with either electricity or wood.


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## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

There is no way I am going to replace the coil honestly. I was going to go tankless electric but after finding out the amp and draw it wont work on my panel so a 50 gallon hot water heater it is.


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## maple1 (Sep 10, 2014)

I would make sure you throughly evaluate what it would cost to get a HPWH. From some of the incentives some were reporting on here, they were getting a HPWH for less than a conventional electric.


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## 08specB (Sep 10, 2014)

maple1 said:


> I would make sure you throughly evaluate what it would cost to get a HPWH. From some of the incentives some were reporting on here, they were getting a HPWH for less than a conventional electric.



When I looked them up on amazon the units themselves went for $1-3k not including what it would cost to install one. Where are you finding the prices of these?


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## avc8130 (Sep 10, 2014)

You can get the heat pump for less than the $1300 you quoted for the new coil...especially in CT!

Check your local Lowes.

ac


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## maple1 (Sep 10, 2014)

Try searching 'nyletherm' on here too, depending how your investigating goes.

Those are NOS discontinued HWPHs being sold by a very trusted Hearth member. $300 I think.

But there is lots of info on here also about the GE Geosprings and the rebates people have gotten.


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## avc8130 (Sep 10, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Try searching 'nyletherm' on here too, depending how your investigating goes.
> 
> Those are NOS discontinued HWPHs being sold by a very trusted Hearth member. $300 I think.
> 
> But there is lots of info on here also about the GE Geosprings and the rebates people have gotten.



He'd need some form of a tank to use that Nyle.  Total would still wind up less than $1300, but just trying to make sure it's clear.

ac


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## maple1 (Sep 10, 2014)

avc8130 said:


> He'd need some form of a tank to use that Nyle.  Total would still wind up less than $1300, but just trying to make sure it's clear.
> 
> ac



True.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 10, 2014)

A 40 gal electric costs around $350 and would save you at least $1,000 a year. A geo springs will cost you around $1,000 with no rebates and save at least $300 more a year than electric.


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## mustash29 (Sep 11, 2014)

The 50 gal GE GeoSpring at Lowes is 999, but the final price out the door is actually 600.

Lowes takes your info at the register and processes the 400 "Energize CT" rebate themselves.  You get the rebate at the time of sale, don't have to front the $$$ and don't have to wait for CL&P to process and send you the refund.  Win - win.


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## 08specB (Sep 11, 2014)

Isn't the install of these units very pricey?


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## avc8130 (Sep 11, 2014)

08specB said:


> Isn't the install of these units very pricey?



Same as any other electric, except you will have to figure out what to do with the condensate like a dehumidifier.

ac


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## Fred61 (Sep 11, 2014)

08specB said:


> Isn't the install of these units very pricey?


Cold water pipe in - - Hot water pipe out - - wire to breaker box - - condensate tube to drain - - That's it!


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## bryankloos (Sep 11, 2014)

I installed the GeoSpring last spring.  I calculated my annual heating costs for DHW at about  $1200 using oil.
I bought the GeoSpring for $599 at Lowes in CT, and then received a $400 rebate from energize CT.
$199 plus about another $150 in wire, copper, 30A breaker etc and I'm making hot water for about $20/month.  Sure beats the ~$100/month I was paying with oil.
Its as easy as can be to install.  I'm in Southwestern CT and am always happy to lend a hand if you are near.
To me, it was a "no brainer."


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## 08specB (Sep 11, 2014)

bryankloos said:


> I installed the GeoSpring last spring.  I calculated my annual heating costs for DHW at about  $1200 using oil.
> I bought the GeoSpring for $599 at Lowes in CT, and then received a $400 rebate from energize CT.
> $199 plus about another $150 in wire, copper, 30A breaker etc and I'm making hot water for about $20/month.  Sure beats the ~$100/month I was paying with oil.
> Its as easy as can be to install.  I'm in Southwestern CT and am always happy to lend a hand if you are near.
> To me, it was a "no brainer."



Is this a unit that would heat the water as well as a regular hot water heater? Want to install one for me? haha

I am honestly to scared to hook it up myself


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## Fred61 (Sep 11, 2014)

08specB said:


> Is this a unit that would heat the water as well as a regular hot water heater? Want to install one for me? haha
> 
> I am honestly to scared to hook it up myself


What kind of work do you do. You're not a stockbroker or an accountant are you? Anyone that has ever picked up a tool should be able to do it. Just get some help with the electrical hook-up. Might cost you a six pack.


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## bryankloos (Sep 12, 2014)

I've been known to work for a 6 pack and a pizza...

However you decide to get the job done, ditch the oil DHW.  That's just plain crazy!


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## maple1 (Sep 12, 2014)

08specB said:


> Is this a unit that would heat the water as well as a regular hot water heater? Want to install one for me? haha
> 
> I am honestly to scared to hook it up myself


 
If you don't want to install yourself, that's fine.

But the cost of installation will not be any more than what you would be looking at with having anything else installed - so that point is a wash.

I've read a couple of posts since in the Green Room of guys in CT getting new Geosprings for like a couple hundred dollars after incentives. Which would make this about the most no-brainer decision I think I have read of on here.

You should also be thinking beyond just your DHW & coil problem - like towards getting rid of the oil boiler all together, and what it would take to do that. Fully & realistically asses how much the oil boiler will be used for heating. You could be thinking about maybe replacing it with an electric boiler if it won't be used much at all, or a pellet boiler if it will be. (That's all without knowing much about the rest of your heating system). For example, around here, there seem to be quite a few lightly used electric boilers being sold to make way for mini-splits. You could install a new HPWH, a used electric boiler, and do away with everything oil related (boiler and tank and all associated potential oil spill liabilities), for less that the $1300 you were intitially considering on the coil replacement. I did something like that, and it sure felt good pulling that oil tank out.


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

Above when I mentioned that a heat pump would be too costly I was talking about the Geothermal heat pump. I will read up on regular heat pumps online a little and talk to my HVAC guy to see if he installs/services them.


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## maple1 (Sep 12, 2014)

Ooh ya - Geothermal stuff is definitely $$.

There are Geothermal heat pumps, air source heat pumps ('conventional ducted' and 'mini-split ductless'), and heat pump water heaters. All different. So just make sure you & the HVAC guy are talking about the same thing.


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

I left him a message and I will ask him about hot water heat pumps. Do you know of a good video or place I can read or watch about them?


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## maple1 (Sep 12, 2014)

'hot water heat pumps' - that might imply to someone Geothermal. Heats your house from groundwater or ground heat.

Make sure to straighten out what you are really looking for, and what you're asking.

Just heating for domestic hot water would be 'heat pump water heater'.

Easy to go astray in a conversation with some words moved around just a bit.

Search 'geospring' on here, particularly in the Green Room section, for HPWH info.


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

Is this the Geosprings heater you are speaking about? It is $799 at Lowes 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_386797-83-G...UserSearch=geospring&productId=3664968&rpp=32


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## maple1 (Sep 12, 2014)

Go here if you haven't already:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-geospring.128122/

Then search 'geospring' for more reading.


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

wow alot to read but i will check it out when i get some free time


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Go here if you haven't already:
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-geospring.128122/
> 
> Then search 'geospring' for more reading.



replied in that thread thank you !!


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## 08specB (Sep 12, 2014)

After looking at some reviews online maple1 i am not so sure/sold on this unit. It appears that people have alot of issues with it throwing error codes and breaking. On top of that the GE tech's are the only ones that can work on and fix the unit if it does end up breaking. If I bypass my tankless coil the boiler would not be used at all and I fear by not using it at all it will cause issues and potentially break. Considering the cost of electricity here in CT I am also not too keen on going with an regular hot water heater due to the cost and that I would need to move my large safe. 

I guess I am just confused with what way would be best for my situation. It was quoted $1,080 to replace the tankless coil in my boiler and another $185 to fix the busted mixing valve and just over $3k to switch over to a indirect system (which is way out of my budget). 

The Lowe's reviews on the GE unit are good however the other reviews online are terrible along with Amazon. I am just unsure at this point.


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## maple1 (Sep 12, 2014)

You need to do more reading, I think.

There were also earlier versions of the Geospring that I believe did have issues. If you're still worried about a HPWH, an ordinary electric hot water heater would still be way less expensive to operate than oil. My 2 year old 80 gallon one is less than $30/mo for a family of 5, at $0.18/kwh.

And if the boiler really would not be used at all if the coil was bypassed, I would send that boiler and my oil tank down the road so fast it wouldn't know what happened, kiss the oil man goodbye, and not look back. Well, maybe not the kiss, but maybe at least a wave.

You might even be able to sell it to help recover some of the costs. But I would want some kind of backup heat.

Keep researching.


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## avc8130 (Sep 12, 2014)

I'd go with the Geospring.  If the reliability scares you, I hear $100 brings the labor warranty out to 10 years to match the parts warranty.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 12, 2014)

Get the geo spring. If you don't like it at CT prices I will come down and buy it from you. Even help install a different unit.


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