# Summer DWH options



## MaineGuy (Mar 6, 2014)

This summer I will be installing a Garn Jr. I hope.  95% sure at this point.  Right now I heat my hot water with my owb in the winter and an oil boiler in the summer with an indirect (amtrol) water heater which is used with either wood or oil.  I want to do away with heating hot water with oil in the summer and hopefully eventually eliminating my oil boiler all together.  I don't really see the point in keeping the oil boiler just to heat water in the summer.  And I'm thinking about adding the electric option to the garn for a backup.  Since we don't really go anywhere for too long in the wintertime.

The way I see it is I have a few options.  I'd like to stick with electric of some sort.  I have LP on site but would like to have something that doesn't rely on a fuel source that gets delivered on a truck.  I'm heating water for a family of 4.  2 adults and 2 children (7 years old Yes there twins)

The 3 options I'm thinking about are:

1) a hybrid electric water heater
2) an ordinary electric water heater
3) I'm not sure if its possible, but was wondering if I could use an electric tankless water heater to heat the water in my indirect water heater tank?  I'd be interested if anyone is doing or has tried doing this?  Or maybe even just use a tankless electric water heater without a tank? 

It appears there is going to be about 5-600 dollars difference in the initial setup.  I've read good and  bad reviews on the hybrid electric water heaters.  Anyone have a recommendation on what brand would be the best if I plan to go that route.

Any advice or previous experiences with any of these setup would be greatly appreciated.


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## iceguy4 (Mar 6, 2014)

I Love my HP  HW heater...Honestly, it eliminates the necessity of a dehumidifier ...virtually invisible on my electric bill...


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## BoilerMan (Mar 6, 2014)

I'll second the HPWH.  If you use the add-on unit you can still use your indirect with the wood.  Nyletherm1 for $365 on ebay. 

An electric tankless will require a 200amp service.

TS


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## DZL_Damon (Mar 6, 2014)

There are lots of Nyle and Hallowell heat pumps on Maine craigslist for $300. I'm happy with mine. Newer ones might be a dite more efficient... but... $300


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## STIHLY DAN (Mar 6, 2014)

I don't know whats best, but my ge with the indirect tied into it for the wood furnace works great no issues and a 10 yr warranty. I love the dehumidification, use hot water all the time in the summer just for that.


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## iceguy4 (Mar 6, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I love the dehumidification, use hot water all the time in the summer just for that.


lol   me too


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## MaineGuy (Mar 6, 2014)

Well I have a 200 amp service already.  I'm somewhat intrigued by the heat pump water heaters.  I see the ones on ebay for 365 and there's some used units on craigslist for $135 I think I would rather pay 365 for a new old stock unit.  what is involved in hooking up one of these?  Can I use one to heat the water in the indirect water heater I have now?  Anyone have a good source of information, wiring diagrams, plumbing schematics, etc?


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## jeffesonm (Mar 6, 2014)

Another heat pump water heater vote... it's only been a few months but haven't noticed much of a blip on the electric bill.  I went with the GE GeoSpring which had some nice state/power co rebates (plus federal 25c if you haven't used that yet).  You can some install pics here.  It hooked up just like a regular electric water heater, plus someplace to drain the condensate.

Haven't yet decided if it's worth the trouble to make fires in the summer just for DHW but I'm leaning towards no at this point...


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## mustash29 (Mar 7, 2014)

If you are thinking about the GE GeoSpring HPWH, consider taking a day trip to CT.  Lowes has them for 599.


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## tom in maine (Mar 7, 2014)

I am now the technical support guy for the ones on Ebay and on Maine Craigslist.
We are presently selling new old stock Nyletherms for $300 plus tax in Maine. If you want them shipped they are $365.
There is a video on YouTube. Just search for Nyletherm. We warranty them for 30 days to not be DOA. They operate on 240vac.

New Geysers are $850 for the ones that tie into electric water heaters. The units for other tanks (Geyser RO) are $900. You can purchase them directly from Nyle.
They no longer sell through dealers. Geysers carry a one year warranty. The Geysers operate on 120vac.


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## kopeck (Mar 7, 2014)

Another vote for the HPHW heater.

I had a bit of a bumpy road with mine but in the end I was very pleased.

K


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## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2014)

I installed an electric water heater in 2012 for summer DHW.  

Had I known about these add-on heat pumps, I would have used that to make my super-store indirect an electric water heater.  

If you use a "tankless" setup as of now, get a combo unit.  The $599 in CT GE is a heck of a steal.

ac


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## brant2000 (Mar 7, 2014)

I agree with the HPHW. You could also check into other "add-on" options that may work well if you already have a domestic hot water tank.  The unit I'm using is an Airtap A7.  Not sure if they're still available, as they seemed to fizzle out, but I haven't had any issues with it.  I actually got more back in state and federal credits/refunds than the unit cost to purchase (I bought it about 3 years ago for $585).  I know that Nyle also makes an add-on unit, that you may be able to find.

The only thing to note, is that depending on what the climate is like, the cooling effect can eliminate the dehumidification benefits.  I have had times when my basement gets so cool in the spring/early summer that I have had issues with mold.


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## MaineGuy (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the input, right now I'm thinking about going with a geyser RO, it appears I can hook this unit into my boilermate tank.  I'm trying to find out right now if this qualifies for our states $300 rebate.  Plus I just found out there actually made about 30 miles from where I am. 

I'm hoping with a geyser I will be able to use my boilermate with the garn and also have the geyser hooked up for summer use.

Again thank you, I wasn't really aware of the add on heat pump water heaters until you people mentioned it here on the forum.


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## avc8130 (Mar 7, 2014)

Unfortunately, in NJ the Geyser does NOT qualify for the $500 rebate available as it is NOT Energy Star rated.

ac


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## BoilerMan (Mar 8, 2014)

I've been very happy with the Nyletherm from Tom (didn't know if I was allowed to say that Tom).   I'm a licensed refrigeration tech among other things, and you can't build an air-to-water setup for what Tom is selling these for.  Very good ROI!

I'm always trying to get people to buy these, bang for the buck there is no better deal out there!

FYI, just because something is not energy star rated is no reason not to buy it, or think it will save you less $$$$ than something that was energy star qualified. 

TS


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## MaineGuy (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm not so worried about energy star, its the rebate that I'd like.  If I can't get a rebate on the geyser I'll most likely buy a nyletherm from Tom.


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## Vizsla (Mar 8, 2014)

Plenty of good reviews,  http://blog.yagelski.com/2009/11/ge-hybrid-water-heater-does-heat-pump.html

Pages of useful info on the hpwh here,  its kinda crazy when people are into their WH's this much....I'm mean its a water tank not a Shelby cobra......

http://www.thetankatwaterheaterrescue.com/forums/forum3/2544-6.html


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## avc8130 (Mar 9, 2014)

BoilerMan said:


> FYI, just because something is not energy star rated is no reason not to buy it, or think it will save you less $$$$ than something that was energy star qualified.
> 
> TS



It's not that I care about the Energy Star rating to proves it's efficient, I care because it unlocks a $500 rebate in NJ.  

ac


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## BoilerMan (Mar 9, 2014)

avc8130 said:


> It's not that I care about the Energy Star rating to proves it's efficient, I care because it unlocks a $500 rebate in NJ.
> 
> ac


I knew that, I was just saying that the yellow sticker doesn't say the whole story.

TS


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## MaineGuy (Apr 6, 2014)

I got my nyletherm 1 up and running last Wednesday evening.  Its been humming along making hot water.  So far I'm very pleased, it's quite a bit quieter than I was expecting it to be.  I'm just using a strap on aquastat between the return line that comes off the top of my boilermate.  The Heated water gets returned to the boilermate at the bottom.  It not really set up the most efficient right now.  But it will do for the summer.  I'm supposed to be picking up a Garn Jr this Friday so I'll be moving the boilermate and the heatpump to the basement where the new garn will be installed.  sWhen I re-install it in the basement I'll try to put a sensor on the bottom of the  tank where the boilermate sensor is I think if I remember correctly.  The heatpump comes on and off quite a bit but I think its because the pipe cools down so it kicks on and heats the pipe up and the shuts back off. 

I just wanted to post and update and say So far I'm very pleased with the unit.  I have noticed the oil burner is running much less than it used too.  Which is a good thing


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## infinitymike (Apr 6, 2014)

Can these units be used with an indirect hot water heater or are they only used as a supplement to an electric water heater?
I have a Weil Mclain 40 gallon gold plus hooked up to be heated either by wood or oil.
I hooked it up a year after getting the Wood Gun hooked up and last summer was the first time I burned wood to heat the water.
Quite honestly, after burning all of last winter, all of last summer and all off this brutally cold winter I kinda wanna take a break from burning.
But I don't want to buy a stand alone electric water heater.


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## MaineGuy (Apr 6, 2014)

I've got mine hooked up to an Amtrol Boiler mate.  It will circulate your potable water so you can keep your boiler hooked up.  It was a pretty simple install.  And Tom is great if you have any questions.  There is a resistor you have to install but it's simple once you get better instructions from Tom.

It basically took me an afternoon to install.


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## KenLockett (Apr 6, 2014)

iceguy4 said:


> I Love my HP  HW heater...Honestly, it eliminates the necessity of a dehumidifier ...virtually invisible on my electric bill...


What is a HP HW heater?


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## infinitymike (Apr 6, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> I've got mine hooked up to an Amtrol Boiler mate.  It will circulate your potable water so you can keep your boiler hooked up.  It was a pretty simple install.  And Tom is great if you have any questions.  There is a resistor you have to install but it's simple once you get better instructions from Tom.
> 
> It basically took me an afternoon to install.





So that means I would still need to use either oil or wood as a primary source of heating the water and this unit would be an add on supplement.


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## infinitymike (Apr 6, 2014)

I'm surprised that with the Garn you wouldn't just use that for summer DHW. 
Probably get a way with 1 fire every couple days. 


At least that's what I'm assuming and hoping for when I install storage.


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## MaineGuy (Apr 6, 2014)

This unit will heat the water in your indirect water heater only. I just turned my Amtrol down to like 100 degrees and set the aquastat to turn the hphw on before the oil sees a demand.  Which I'm guessing it would come on if I were to use enough hot water and the hpwh can't keep up.


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## infinitymike (Apr 6, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> This unit will heat the water in your indirect water heater only. I just turned my Amtrol down to like 100 degrees and set the aquastat to turn the hphw on before the oil sees a demand.  Which I'm guessing it would come on if I were to use enough hot water and the hpwh can't keep up.




I like this. Sounds like a good option. 
And I won't have to run that loud, inefficient, energy sucking dehumidifier.


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## MaineGuy (Apr 6, 2014)

That's still an option.  I'll probably wait and see how much wood I burn through a winter.


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## MaineGuy (Apr 6, 2014)

Yeah if your already running a dehumidifier it will be like free hot water.  My garage floor has been pretty dry since I've been running the hpwh.  Its great compared to previous springs.


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## tom in maine (Apr 7, 2014)

Yes, it is an excellent backup for non-wood heating times. HPWH is a heat pump water heater. It takes heat from the room air (usually a basement) and makes domestic hot water.


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## woodsmaster (Apr 7, 2014)

Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?


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## maple1 (Apr 7, 2014)

woodsmaster said:


> Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?


 
I think you can duct them too, with some DIY ability. I'm still thinking strongly about one - if I do, I will run some ducting so it can send 'conditioned' air either up to a central vent on my first floor living area (in summer or if it's hot out) or just into the basement,  and bring in intake air either from the basement, or a warm sunroom area of my first floor (in summer or if it's hot out).


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## DBNH22 (Apr 7, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> Yeah if your already running a dehumidifier it will be like free hot water.  My garage floor has been pretty dry since I've been running the hpwh.  Its great compared to previous springs.




Glad to hear the HPWH is working out well for you.  I'm going to be picking one up in the next few weeks.  It's almost warm enough so that I can stop heating but I don't want to have to go back to oil for my DHW so I have to get the heat pump in soon.


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## kopeck (Apr 7, 2014)

Mine (Nyletherm) isn't loud, I would say it's about the same as my Tarm but they're different noises.  None the less with my basement door closed I don't hear it running.

With a family of 5 you might want to think about more reserve, 40 gallons might not do it.  I think the HWHP is up to the task, it will probably run a lot, it just need to be sized properly.  Then again it might do it 80% of the time, having your boiler kick on for the other 20% might not be all that bad.

I don't like burning wood in the summer, the HWHP works well for me.

K


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## DBNH22 (Apr 7, 2014)

kopeck said:


> Mine (Nyletherm) isn't loud, I would say it's about the same as my Tarm but they're different noises.  None the less with my basement door closed I don't hear it running.
> 
> With a family of 5 you might want to think about more reserve, 40 gallons might not do it.  I think the HWHP is up to the task, it will probably run a lot, it just need to be sized properly.  Then again it might do it 80% of the time, having your boiler kick on for the other 20% might not be all that bad.
> 
> ...



 You think a 40 gallon tank is a little on the small side?  I also have a 40 gallon tank and it's been keeping up fine.  It's my wife, myself and two toddlers.  We try to minimize the hot water by not taking long showers and not using hot water for laundry.  I'm hoping that I don't have to step up the tank size when my kids get older and start showering every day.    I guess I could offset it by only showering once a week.


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## maple1 (Apr 7, 2014)

Another side benefit (I think), is that if you hook it up to an electric DHW heater, you should extend its life since the elements won't be on. Or not near as much, if at all.


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## chken (Apr 7, 2014)

woodsmaster said:


> Are these units loud ? Would they supply continuous hot water for a family of 5 ? Would it work good if the water heater is in a closet attached to a 7 x 10 laundry room ? Guess I could shut the laundry room door and open the window if it wasn't getting enough air ?


You'll have to look at the specs, but heat pumps take time to heat HW. I'm not so sure about continuous HW for a family of 5. It may depend upon how large a storage tank you use. Also, heat pumps need air to draw their heat from, so a larger room to draw heat from the better. I doubt a closet would meet its requirement, unless the door was slatted like a laundry door.


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## woodsmaster (Apr 7, 2014)

chken said:


> You'll have to look at the specs, but heat pumps take time to heat HW. I'm not so sure about continuous HW for a family of 5. It may depend upon how large a storage tank you use. Also, heat pumps need air to draw their heat from, so a larger room to draw heat from the better. I doubt a closet would meet its requirement, unless the door was slatted like a laundry door.


 The door is slatted, but if the laundry room door was shut the room still wouldn't be big enough. I have a 80 gallon electric WH now


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## bdud (Apr 10, 2014)

I use a Nyle Geyser water heat pump connected to a Caleffi 80 gallon water tank which supplies all the hot water requirements for our 5 adult house when not using the pellet boiler. No one has noticed the water not being hot. The water pressure with the more consistent temps with 2 showers running at the same time, is so much better than our old indirect coil in the oil boiler. A plus is also a cooler, dryer basement and the water condensate I pump out to a little herb garden growing outside.


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

So if you're not using a lot of hot water at the sinks, showers, washers etc do you actually get less dehumidification going on in your basement where the heat pump is?  Or does the heat pump continuously dehumidify even when there are no calls for hot water?


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## moey (Apr 22, 2014)

Dana B said:


> So if you're not using a lot of hot water at the sinks, showers, washers etc do you actually get less dehumidification going on in your basement where the heat pump is?  Or does the heat pump continuously dehumidify even when there are no calls for hot water?



You would get less dehumidification it would not run. The dehumidification is side effect positive in most cases.


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

moey said:


> You would get less dehumidification it would not run. The dehumidification is side effect positive in most cases.




In practical terms though would the average home with a family of four receive adequate humidification through normal use of the heat pump for DHW?  I don't have excessive moisture issues in the basement in general but I'd like to know that after bouts of excessively muggy/rainy weather the heat pump will do a good job of dehimidfying the basement.


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## bdud (Apr 22, 2014)

As moey said, the heat pump would only run if the sensor told it to, this could be from normal heat loss from the tank and pipes.
Nyle sell 2 models, one that uses the electric element sensor that is maybe already in your water tank or a model which has a separate heat sensor that you mount at the bottom the tank, this is the model I have. The hp, maybe because it has the feed & return + sensor at the bottom, seems to heat the tank more thoroughly than the indirect coil and sensor mounted half way up the tank. In my case for our house of 5 adults it heats all our hot water in the warmer months.  
Our basement before the heat pump, would be a bit musty, before I ran an a/c supply duct which has its own fan, we would run a dehumidifier but it made the basement warm and noisy. After I put in the a/c supply it still would smell damp and it could still get warm.
With the Nyle the furnace room is sometimes pretty cold, the door to the rest of the basement is closed but those rooms are now also cooler and no more damp smell in the basement.
To answer if the hp would work for you, if your tank is of a reasonable size - you should not get water temp swings, you could expect to save money rather using an oil burner, nobody can hear the hp running if they are in a different room in the basement or in the room above, it cured my damp basement, it cooled my basement, it could work for you, it certainly would reduce and hopefully elimate the time the dehumidifier runs if you use one at the moment. 
Pump the water out collected by the hp rather than using a bucket. I use an a/c condensate pump, which goes via a little clear filter (to stop the bugs crawling in) to a couple of micro sprinklers in a garden bed. Hope to grow tomato's in there this year..
It is quite funny to watch it when the water gets pumped out..


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

bdud said:


> As moey said, the heat pump would only run if the sensor told it to, this could be from normal heat loss from the tank and pipes.
> Nyle sell 2 models, one that uses the electric element sensor that is maybe already in your water tank or a model which has a separate heat sensor that you mount at the bottom the tank, this is the model I have. The hp, maybe because it has the feed & return + sensor at the bottom, seems to heat the tank more thoroughly than the indirect coil and sensor mounted half way up the tank. In my case for our house of 5 adults it heats all our hot water in the warmer months.
> Our basement before the heat pump, would be a bit musty, before I ran an a/c supply duct which has its own fan, we would run a dehumidifier but it made the basement warm and noisy. After I put in the a/c supply it still would smell damp and it could still get warm.
> With the Nyle the furnace room is sometimes pretty cold, the door to the rest of the basement is closed but those rooms are now also cooler and no more damp smell in the basement.
> ...




I have a 40 gallon Superstor that I will be using with the Nyletherm.  I ordered the Nyletherm earlier today and hope to have it installed in the next two to three weeks.  Tom from Maine mentioned that the unit needs to have a standard aquastat installed so that it does not run continuously.  Right now it's just my wife and I and two little toddlers.

The plumber I will have install the Nyletherm is much better than the plumber I had install the Superstor.  When the Superstor was installed we did not have any kids and the plumber never thought to mention "hey if you plan on having kids some day you might want to think about a tank that's a little bigger than the 40 gallon model."

The 40 gallon tank has always been able to provide enough hot water for our needs but I think there may come a day when the kids start showering every day that it may fail to do so.  Rather than getting a new and larger tank I think I may try much less cost effective solutions to mitigate this such as some low flow shower heads and mixing valves.


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## kopeck (Apr 22, 2014)

We have a 30 gallon tank and are in the same situation (two toddlers).  You have to work really hard to exhaust the tank.  The bigger issue with the small tank IMHO is that it fluctuates so much that it's always calling for heat, but not of a very long time which isn't efficient.  This is really obvious in the summer.

The 30 works OK with my setup now, still not the most efficient setup but it gets the job done.

K


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

kopeck said:


> We have a 30 gallon tank and are in the same situation (two toddlers).  You have to work really hard to exhaust the tank.  The bigger issue with the small tank IMHO is that it fluctuates so much that it's always calling for heat, but not of a very long time which isn't efficient.  This is really obvious in the summer.
> 
> The 30 works OK with my setup now, still not the most efficient setup but it gets the job done.
> 
> K




What kind of tank do you have that it's temp is always fluctuating?  I have one of the stainless Superstor and supposedly they are insulated. 


What is causing the temp swings in your tank?  Have you ever considered one of those tank blankets/wraps?


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## kopeck (Apr 22, 2014)

It's not the stand by heat loss I'm talking about, it's the fact that it doesn't take a lot of load to run it down so the boiler (or in my case storage) kicks on pretty quickly.  The revers is true a well, it doesn't take a long time to top is back off so in the oil boiler's case you get a lot of short cycling, which isn't a good thing.

K


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## bdud (Apr 22, 2014)

As you said Dana B, your tank might be ok for now but the recovery time to heat water from a hp is not quick, so you can get into situations where the water is cooler than you want. I am not sure how you plumb the Nyletherm into the water tank, hopefully it will use the same arrangement as the Nyle Geyser hp's, which seem to heat the tank from the bottom. The Nyle Geyser came with a Johnson Control A419 which works nice, I have a couple fitted to my storage and hot water tank for the boiler control. You can set the temp easily, the temp difference, also with some dip switches additional options. My storage tank tank came with some mechanical control that was a pain, so I quickly scrapped that one.


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

bdud said:


> As you said Dana B, your tank might be ok for now but the recovery time to heat water from a hp is not quick, so you can get into situations where the water is cooler than you want. I am not sure how you plumb the Nyletherm into the water tank, hopefully it will use the same arrangement as the Nyle Geyser hp's, which seem to heat the tank from the bottom. The Nyle Geyser came with a Johnson Control A419 which works nice, I have a couple fitted to my storage and hot water tank for the boiler control. You can set the temp easily, the temp difference, also with some dip switches additional options. My storage tank tank came with some mechanical control that was a pain, so I quickly scrapped that one.




Did you buy your Nyle through Tom in Maine?  That's where I got mine and if I recall correctly he told me that the Nyletherm and the newer version, the Geyser are basically the same unit but the Nyletherm is 240V.  I think Tom posted earlier on this thread so he could probably give a better explanation of the two units.

I'm not a plumber/heating guy but my understanding of mixing valves is that they allow you to run the tank hotter and then mix in your hotter hot water with some cold water to give you the desired temp at the faucet while saving water in the tank.  I was hoping that I might be able to utilize a mixing valve to extend the recovery time on the tank.  Does this hold true to those of you that know better than I?


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## bdud (Apr 22, 2014)

I bought my hp from Nyle directly, it is the 120v version. There are a lot of threads about the Nyletherm which was withdrawn. I wanted the 120v version anyway for I have 120v generators. I would be surprised if your existing hot water system does not have a mixing valve. You would need to water tank temp a lot lower so you did not get scolded. Maybe post some pictures of your existing plumbing and some more knowledgable folks than me can comment.


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## DBNH22 (Apr 22, 2014)

bdud said:


> I bought my hp from Nyle directly, it is the 120v version. There are a lot of threads about the Nyletherm which was withdrawn. I wanted the 120v version anyway for I have 120v generators. I would be surprised if your existing hot water system does not have a mixing valve. You would need to water tank temp a lot lower so you did not get scolded. Maybe post some pictures of your existing plumbing and some more knowledgable folks than me can comment.




Do you know why the Nyletherm was withdrawn?  I think I've read some posts on here from people who have that version of the HP and have had a positive experience.  The Nyletherm is much cheaper when purchasing from Tom in Maine as opposed to purchasing the Geyser directly from Nyle.


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## tom in maine (Apr 23, 2014)

The units are slightly different. The Geyser operates on 120VAC while the Nyletherm uses 240VAC. The Nyletherms were only made to operate with an electric water heater.
We (or you) can modify the unit to operate with an aquastat for other tanks like Superstores.
The mechanical parts are very similar. The big difference internally, other than operating voltage, is the Nyletherm has a potted control module and the Geyser is hand wired with parts from Grainger. I have used my Nyletherm for 8 years with no issues. We do have control modules available. The controls are quite simple and can be replaced with a hand wired version if that was ever an issue.

Recovery time is twice as long as an electric water heater. This does not seem to present any issue for most people who have them. 
I have sold a fair bit of both units and no one has lamented recovery time.
I suspect the usual problem comes in with really long showers. A limited capacity storage tank will take care of that and save even more money ;^)


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## DBNH22 (Apr 23, 2014)

I was speaking with one of the guys I work with today who has a 40 gallon electric tank and he said that he's been both the fourth person and the fifth person in his show in the morning and that if he's the fourth he's happy and if he's the fifth he's not.  He said his family usually takes anywhere from 10-20 minute showers.  I'm glad to hear that a 40 gallon tank can keep up with 4 morning showers as that's the most demand my family will most likely ever put on our 40 gal. tank and I was not looking forward to upgrading to an 80 gallon as they're not exactly cheap.

So now I'll have my Biowin for heat and DHW during the heating months and the Nyle doing DHW in the non heating months.  All that's left to do is to complete the air sealing in the attic, bring it up to R60 and my home will be as energy efficient as I'm willing to spend to make it. for now anyway.  I've bought a couple of the Cree A19 LED bulbs at Home Depot to try them.  They come in the 5000K natural light in addition to the 3000K yellow light that most incandescent bulbs are limited to.  They're nice but $16 for a 75 watt equivalent or $11 for a 60 watt equivalent equals a fairly long payback time.  The BR30's for the kitchen cans are even less cost effective at this point  in time.  I'm hoping that the prices decline pretty quickly because I really do like that 5000K white light for some areas of the home.


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## theal (May 2, 2014)

tom in maine said:


> The units are slightly different. The Geyser operates on 120VAC while the Nyletherm uses 240VAC. The Nyletherms were only made to operate with an electric water heater.
> We (or you) can modify the unit to operate with an aquastat for other tanks like Superstores.
> The mechanical parts are very similar. The big difference internally, other than operating voltage, is the Nyletherm has a potted control module and the Geyser is hand wired with parts from Grainger. I have used my Nyletherm for 8 years with no issues. We do have control modules available. The controls are quite simple and can be replaced with a hand wired version if that was ever an issue.
> 
> ...




Tom,

Thanks for clarification.
I'm thinking to purchase Nyletherm and have few questions.

1. I understand that I would need an additional aquastat for a non-electric water heater (oil) with Nyletherm. Do you have a spec for it?  I'm thinking to setup a temperature controlled relay that I can monitor/control with home automation.

2. I probably won't save relative to oil ($0.21/kWh in LI NY), so my primary interest in a heat pump is dehumidification. Do you know a dehumidification efficiency of your unit L/kWh?

3. Heat pump will decrease air temperature (opposite to dehumidifier).  Should I be concerned about increase of relative humidity and condensation as air temperature drops?

4. I found this test review on Nyletherm http://www.eswaterheater.org/sites/default/files/library/1112/277.pdf.  Good review and interestingly, it states that Nyletherm can operate down to 45F.  My current dehumidifier spends a lot of time in defrost mode below 58F.  What attributes to Nyletherm low temperature performance?

5. I also came across this site www.creativedwellingsinc.com that claims Geyser is is much quieter than the Nyletherm and that Geyser is over 40% more efficient based on their tests http://www.creativedwellingsinc.com/files/WebsiteboundGeyserPredictorSeptFirst09.xlsx.  I do question their efficiency foundings.   Can you comment on this? As a side note, my pool heat pump is rated EF 4 at 60F / 60% rh. How come all home water heaters are less efficient with only EF 2?

Thanks in advance,
Al


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## maple1 (May 2, 2014)

You will absolutely save with respect to oil.


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## theal (May 2, 2014)

maple1 said:


> You will absolutely save with respect to oil.



Here in Long Island NY electricity cost about twice as oil per BTU.  Water heat pump has EF 2, so it is a wash.
http://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/compare-water-heating-options/
Plug in $0.21 for heat pump water heater and $3.68 for oil direct fired tank and you'll get $70/year difference.


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## tom in maine (May 2, 2014)

1. I understand that I would need an additional aquastat for a non-electric water heater (oil) with Nyletherm. Do you have a spec for it? I'm thinking to setup a temperature controlled relay that I can monitor/control with home automation.

_Honeywell units like L6006 will work. Any make on drop temperature control that has a probe and can handle 240vac at 3.5a or higher should be fine._

2. I probably won't save relative to oil ($0.21/kWh in LI NY), so my primary interest in a heat pump is dehumidification. Do you know a dehumidification efficiency of your unit L/kWh?

_I have no idea other than in the process of making my hot water, it does an excellent job of dehumidifying my basement._

3. Heat pump will decrease air temperature (opposite to dehumidifier). Should I be concerned about increase of relative humidity and condensation as air temperature drops?

_No. 
4. I found this test review on Nyletherm http://www.eswaterheater.org/sites/default/files/library/1112/277.pdf. Good review and interestingly, it states that Nyletherm can operate down to 45F. My current dehumidifier spends a lot of time in defrost mode below 58F. What attributes to Nyletherm low temperature performance?_

_It was designed to work in cold Maine basements!

5. I also came across this site www.creativedwellingsinc.com that claims Geyser is is much quieter than the Nyletherm and that Geyser is over 40% more efficient based on their tests http://www.creativedwellingsinc.com/files/WebsiteboundGeyserPredictorSeptFirst09.xlsx. I do question their efficiency foundings. Can you comment on this? As a side note, my pool heat pump is rated EF 4 at 60F / 60% rh. How come all home water heaters are less efficient with only EF 2?_

_I doubt there is more than 10-15%  difference in performance. I have had my hands on and in both units. The mechanics are about the same. The electronics are nothing fancy.
The Geyser is quieter, but the Nyletherm is not particularly noisy. It is quieter than a window air conditioner._


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## theal (May 2, 2014)

tom in maine said:


> 1. I understand that I would need an additional aquastat for a non-electric water heater (oil) with Nyletherm. Do you have a spec for it? I'm thinking to setup a temperature controlled relay that I can monitor/control with home automation.
> 
> _Honeywell units like L6006 will work. Any make on drop temperature control that has a probe and can handle 240vac at 3.5a or higher should be fine._
> 
> ...



Tom, 

Thanks for quick response.
I'll be ordering one shortly.

Al


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## tom in maine (May 2, 2014)

The high electric cost is certainly an issue. The good news is that dehumidification is a free byproduct.


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## maple1 (May 2, 2014)

theal said:


> Here in Long Island NY electricity cost about twice as oil per BTU.  Water heat pump has EF 2, so it is a wash.
> http://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/compare-water-heating-options/
> Plug in $0.21 for heat pump water heater and $3.68 for oil direct fired tank and you'll get $70/year difference.



That's a interesting app. Some of their numbers look wonky to me though. I'm using about half the kWh for our family of 5 that its saying a family of 3 would use (standard electric heater), and 'usage losses' = 67% for a HPWH? I don't think I've read of anyone on here spending more than $15/mo in electricity running a HPWH. I stand to be corrected though.


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## Donl (May 3, 2014)

maple1 said:


> That's a interesting app. Some of their numbers look wonky to me though. I'm using about half the kWh for our family of 5 that its saying a family of 3 would use (standard electric heater), and 'usage losses' = 67% for a HPWH? I don't think I've read of anyone on here spending more than $15/mo in electricity running a HPWH. I stand to be corrected though.


 
Approx $26.00 per month with hp. That's about  144kwhs/month


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## velvetfoot (May 3, 2014)

Donl said:


> Approx $26.00 per month with hp. That's about  144kwhs/month


Is that just for the water heater?


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## Donl (May 3, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Is that just for the water heater?



Yes, that is just for the water heater.


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## DZL_Damon (May 3, 2014)

Donl said:


> Approx $26.00 per month with hp. That's about  144kwhs/month


Seconded for about $26/mo with a cool downstairs to boot.


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## velvetfoot (May 4, 2014)

144 doesn't seem that low.


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## tom in maine (May 4, 2014)

144 kwHrs sounds right. That's about 16,000 btus a day.


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## maple1 (May 4, 2014)

theal said:


> Here in Long Island NY electricity cost about twice as oil per BTU.  Water heat pump has EF 2, so it is a wash.
> http://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/compare-water-heating-options/
> Plug in $0.21 for heat pump water heater and $3.68 for oil direct fired tank and you'll get $70/year difference.


 
I went back to that site again, and the more I looked at it the more I see that just doesn't match up to my real world experience.

Our old tankless coil boiler used about 1 gallon (Imperial) of oil a day, for our DHW in the non-heating seasons. Our 2 year old 80 gallon electric heater uses around $20/mo of electricity at $0.17. The oil figure I think is pretty accurate after watching it for 17 years, the electric I'm still not sure about as the first estimation I came up with after the first couple power bills was $30/mo, then looking at more power bills a year and a half later I came up with $15/mo. So I'll say $20 for now.

So using $3.68/US Gallon and $0.21 electric, I'm saving over $100/month at your rates - around $115 to be a bit more exact.

Now - I've never had an oil direct fired tank, or a HPWH, so trying to guage those by using comparative numbers from the efficiencymaine thing, I come up with estimations that an oil direct would use 80% of the oil a tankless coil would, and a HPWH would use 70% of the electricity a standard electric tank would. So throwing all that together with what I've seen at my place, I get an estimation that going from a direct fired oil tank to HPWH should save around $95/mo. That's a loooong way from that site estimation of only $6/mo. Am I that far wrong?

How much oil does your oil direct fired tank actually use?


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## tom in maine (May 4, 2014)

Just to throw out some more numbers. Dick Hill had a household with, at times, 4 tenants. He is using an Amtrol Boilermate with a low mass cold start Axeman Anderson Olympia oil fired boiler. In the summertime, he found that the net energy that landed in the Boilermate from the boiler was 33%.
He changed over to a Nyletherm and operates it during the non heating season.
He is heating an electric tank instead of the Boilermate. I am not sure about any difference in insulation values, but the savings he is seeing with the HP are similar to everyone else.
He clocks what everyone uses! Since his tenants are Chinese, maybe this Big Brother approach is not an issue.


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## infinitymike (May 4, 2014)

[quote="tom in maine, post: 1719934, member: 4841".
He clocks what everyone uses.[/quote]

How does he or any else for that matter, clock their electric use? I assume an hour meter on the appliance?  Oil is obviously easy since it is stand alone but electric is mixed in with so many other variables.


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## STIHLY DAN (May 4, 2014)

theal said:


> Here in Long Island NY electricity cost about twice as oil per BTU.  Water heat pump has EF 2, so it is a wash.
> http://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/compare-water-heating-options/
> Plug in $0.21 for heat pump water heater and $3.68 for oil direct fired tank and you'll get $70/year difference.



I also pay .20 kwh and in the summer its $24 a month ( read with an individual watt meter for tank only) with 3 teenagers and a bathing queen wife. Oil was a gallon a day. Over $1,000 savings a year. And it is noticeable in the wallet.


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## tom in maine (May 4, 2014)

Time meters and watt hour meters are everywhere.


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## DBNH22 (May 5, 2014)

Are there any other New Hampshire residents here that are as sick of PSNH and the PUC as I am?

PUC report says PSNH should sell its plants and the public should pay


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## tmudd (May 5, 2014)

Dana B said:


> Are there any other New Hampshire residents here that are as sick of PSNH and the PUC as I am?
> 
> PUC report says PSNH should sell its plants and the public should pay





tom in maine said:


> Time meters and watt hour meters are everywhere.





maple1 said:


> I went back to that site again, and the more I looked at it the more I see that just doesn't match up to my real world experience.
> 
> Our old tankless coil boiler used about 1 gallon (Imperial) of oil a day, for our DHW in the non-heating seasons. Our 2 year old 80 gallon electric heater uses around $20/mo of electricity at $0.17. The oil figure I think is pretty accurate after watching it for 17 years, the electric I'm still not sure about as the first estimation I came up with after the first couple power bills was $30/mo, then looking at more power bills a year and a half later I came up with $15/mo. So I'll say $20 for now.
> 
> ...



Hello Boiler buddies. I was looking for options on hot water before I install a solar setup in the future. Right now I am using an indirect tank off my boiler with an electric water heater back up operating independently from the system. Either on or off. at the moment the used indirect  developed a leak in the coil which forced me back to electric. I would rather not burn wood in the summer. Can any body lead me to some diagrams for piping systems which share, indirect hot water heaters, and  wood boilers remote buildings and heatpump water heaters? 

Thanks to all this knowledge bank.
TLM
Are the heat pump units you guys talking about stand alone? or Are they piped into indirects or what.


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## tom in maine (May 5, 2014)

The Nyletherms and Geysers tie into your tank.
There are many others that are all in one.

Here is a link that I forgot about:
http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-water-heating/domestic-hot-water/heat-pump-water-heaters


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## velvetfoot (May 14, 2014)

bdud said:


> I use a Nyle Geyser water heat pump connected to a Caleffi 80 gallon water tank which supplies all the hot water requirements for our 5 adult house when not using the pellet boiler. No one has noticed the water not being hot. The water pressure with the more consistent temps with 2 showers running at the same time, is so much better than our old indirect coil in the oil boiler. A plus is also a cooler, dryer basement and the water condensate I pump out to a little herb garden growing outside.


bdud, 
I've just installed a Nyletherm.  You don't have to worry about the condensate freezing when you pump it outside because you only use it in the summer?  Do you have a recommendation on a pump?  Thanks.

Also, another advantage of an add-on hpwh is that the total installation with tank can be shorter.  The integrated units are pretty tall.  However, the add-on does take up a little floor space.


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## DBNH22 (May 18, 2014)

I had a Nyletherm installed last Thursday and have barely gotten any hot water in the past few days.  I have a 45 gallon Superstore but Saturday and Sunday morning the showers were both warm rather than hot and I've had hot water once or twice during the day which didn't last very long.  I'm going to be emailing Tom some pics and my plumber is going to speak to him again.  I'm hoping there's a simple tweak that will resolve this.


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## tom in maine (May 18, 2014)

My suspicion is that  the temp sensor is too high on the Superstor.
This is not a good location. It needs to be lower on the tank.
I spoke with your plumber that it might be the placement of the temperature control needs to be moved or the temperature is not being accurately read.
Please use my email tom@americansolartechnics.com
Thanks,
Tom


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## bdud (May 19, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> bdud,
> I've just installed a Nyletherm.  You don't have to worry about the condensate freezing when you pump it outside because you only use it in the summer?  Do you have a recommendation on a pump?  Thanks.
> 
> Also, another advantage of an add-on hpwh is that the total installation with tank can be shorter.  The integrated units are pretty tall.  However, the add-on does take up a little floor space.


I only use my heat pump when I turn off my boiler, I might turn it off this week.
I used a Mars condensate pump I purchased at a heating supply house. I also have a supply tank for my pellet boiler and the overflow for that is also connected to the pump.
Inside it also has a float switch which activates if the pump fails or cannot keep up.
I wired this to my zwave water detector so it will shut off my house water supply if it trips.


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## sinnian (May 19, 2014)

Is there a supply list of materials needed to hook up the Nyletherm?

Thinking about getting one, but not sure of my plumbing skills...............


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## velvetfoot (May 19, 2014)

bdud said:


> I also have a supply tank for my pellet boiler and the overflow for that is also connected to the pump.


I can't say I understand that.   Overflow???

I ordered a Little Giant pump off Amazon for $47.  It doesn't have an overflow switch, as far as I know.  Not that much condensate being generated at present.




sinnian said:


> Is there a supply list of materials needed to hook up the Nyletherm?


I don't have a list, but based on my experience, I'd make a list before going down to the store rather than what I did, which was create one in my head and make even more trips than usual.  I still have stuff to return.
Plus, it makes a difference what you're hooking it up to.


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## sinnian (May 19, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> Plus, it makes a difference what you're hooking it up to.



Just an electric HWH (which is already connected to the pellet boiler) ~ but would just be the standard through the drain installation for plumbing, and cheating off the HWH's electric.


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## bdud (May 19, 2014)

velvetfoot said:


> I can't say I understand that.   Overflow???
> 
> I ordered a Little Giant pump off Amazon for $47.  It doesn't have an overflow switch, as far as I know.  Not that much condensate being generated at present.


You should get a nice collection of water in the summer and a nice cool basement.
I believe it is a requirement in some states, MA included, that the heating system is a pressurized system. For my Windhager pellet boiler installation, which I believe requires a non-pressurized system, I have 2 'circuits' with a circulation pump for each. My existing baseboard heaters have one circulation pump, individual zone valves, indirect coil of hot water tank and indirect coil of a Turbomax storage tank, all pressurized to ~15psi. The other 'circuit' is the Windhager boiler, one circulation pump and the 110 gallons of the TurboMax storage tank with is fed by a supply tank with a ball valve and float, non-pressurized. If the tank overfills it has a pipe connection on it and this is what I also connected to the condensate pump.
In this picture, top left is this supply tank.


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## velvetfoot (May 19, 2014)

Okay, I got it, thanks.


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## DBNH22 (May 19, 2014)

Tom thanks for the quick response on here and through email.  I'm sure it's just a matter of making the right changes for my system to get the Nyletherm operating correctly and optimally.

The unit has been running since late Thursday night and I have roughly 1/2 - 2/3 worth of water in the 5 gallon bucket that it's draining into.  I have a cheap $10 digital thermometer/hygrometer sitting in my basement and the humidty has been reading in the high 50% to low 60% since then.  I'm hoping that I will actually see an improvement in the dehumidification  once the Nyletherm install is finalized.  

I know Tom had told me that his unit does a pretty decent job of dehumidification in his home on the coast.

Does anyone else running a Nyletherm have before and after humidity level numbers?  I live in southern NH about 40 miles from the coast and I'm thinking ideal humidity is going to be high 30% to low 40%  I think I read it on a weather site that that is optimal indoor humidity for my area.  Even if my cheap hygrometer is 5% off I think I'm still too high at the moment.


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## tom in maine (May 19, 2014)

My basement might not be representative, since it has spray foamed walls to the floor. The summer I installed my Nyletherm I had the bright idea to open the basement window and let the basement air out.

I had built shelves around the basement perimeter using some pressed strawboard shelves that were painted white that I bought at HD.
The shelves started to sprout mold through the paint. 

We had been working with Nyle to get the heat pump hooked up and do a TV program on it. Since the Nyletherm had to be converted to use with a non-electric tank and they had never done
that before, it took a while.
Once I finally got the unit from them with the wiring change, I fired up the unit, closed the windows and cleaned all the shelves with Lysol.
Since the unit is on a couple cinder blocks, I hooked the condensate drain to a garden hose to go halfway around my basement to a floor drain. I suspect in the dead of summer I generate a gallon or so a day of water.

The amount of dehumidification is going to be dependent on the basement and the water usage.

We might have some used condensate pumps with our stock. I need to check. We have about 1500 units that we are going through. About half are used. That will be another whole fun thing.....


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## brant2000 (May 19, 2014)

Dana - humidity levels are tricky to understand and conditions may cause large differences.  The trouble with relative humidity (RH) is that it is very dependent on the actual temperature.  Given the same humidity level in the air (moisture per lb of dry air), the RH will increase signficantly as you reduce the space temperature.  For that reason, many cooler basements may have high RH levels, even if the actual humidity level is not that high.  Typically, with most AC's (or other refrigeration devices) moisture can be driven out of the air down to about 55-60 degrees.  That produces a desireable RH level at 70-75 degrees, but will be much higher at lower temperatures (80-90% at 65 deg).  Although a HPWH will remove moisture, it is also cooling simultaneously, so the net effect may not improve RH much.  A dehumidifier works much better at driving down RH, as it doesn't cool the air (effectively heats the air, as a result of the process electricity).


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## bdud (May 19, 2014)

Dana B said:


> The unit has been running since late Thursday night and I have roughly 1/2 - 2/3 worth of water in the 5 gallon bucket that it's draining into.


You should consider pumping this water out rather than leaving it in a bucket in the same room. 
I have never really measured the humidity in my basement but aiming for 30 - 40% might be too low. 
Anything in the 50's should be good and really this is not the hwhp's main purpose.
It sounds like you still have some fine tuning to do and it should then produce more condensate.
Are you running your house ac?
Our house is ~45% humidity at present and the a/c has rarely come on this year.


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## DBNH22 (May 19, 2014)

The 5 gallon bucket is just a temporary solution for drainage for the time being.  I actually have to sink a sump pump in the basement and my plumber recommended placing it under the Nyletherm.  I may do this.

I think when the hygrometer was reading 61% this morning the thermometer actually read 59 degrees.  The basement does not feel dank but I would like to keep it dry enough for pellet storage and to prohibit mold, mildew etc etc  I've never had mold mildew, issues in the past, at least that I could see.  I have my rim joists spray foamed but not the walls.

We don't have central AC in the home.  We have a few of the window style units which I don't like to turn on unless it's absolutely necessary because I'm cheap.  However I do have two young children and I've never taken chances with their health so if it does get very hot their units are the first to get turned on while they're sleeping at night.

As for the amount of condensate being generated, we actually use relatively little hot water.  It's usually my wife and I taking two showers in the morning and then doing dishes in the sink once or twice a day.  The kids take a bath together two to three times a week.  We generally use a cold/cold cycle for laundry.  When my kids stain their clothing we'll fill up the sink as soon as possible with hot water and scrub it out.  We also recently purchased a low flow shower head that does 1.5 gallons per minute.  In troubleshooting the Nyletherm issue I actually timed my shower this morning.   It's not something that I'd ever done before and I expected that I'd be in there for at least ten minutes as I shave in the shower in the morning.   I was pleasantly surprised to find out that I got everything that needed to be done in just seven minutes.  Tomorrow I'm going to be sitting outside the shower with the stopwatch timing the wife's shower.  I'm sure she'll love that.


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## velvetfoot (May 19, 2014)

I came across this link that I found helpful:  http://dpcalc.org/


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## brant2000 (May 19, 2014)

Dana B said:


> I think when the hygrometer was reading 61% this morning the thermometer actually read 59 degrees.



At these conditions, your saturation temperature is just about 40 deg.  It's going to be difficult for anything to remove much additional moisture with this low of a WB temperature.  Not that you may or may not have a problem with mold/moisture in the basement, but if you did, the best way to improve the humidity condition is to warm the space.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jun 4, 2014)

I have a hpwh and at the present moment I am getting 1 1/2 gal of condensate removed from the basement at an average temp of 58*.  In the summer you have to not think cheap and run hot h2o for everything. If you used to run a dehumidafier it's still free hot water. wash your clothes in hot. I actually brush my teeth in hot h2o in the summer. another thing is to bring in a source of heat like a freezer or beer fridge.


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## DBNH22 (Jun 5, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I have a hpwh and at the present moment I am getting 1 1/2 gal of condensate removed from the basement at an average temp of 58*.  In the summer you have to not think cheap and run hot h2o for everything. If you used to run a dehumidafier it's still free hot water. wash your clothes in hot. I actually brush my teeth in hot h2o in the summer. another thing is to bring in a source of heat like a freezer or beer fridge.




1.5 gallons of condensate over what period of time?  A day?


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## STIHLY DAN (Jun 5, 2014)

Yes, a day. I love that thing.


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## velvetfoot (Jun 6, 2014)

I don't get that much yet, but the summer is young.  I did get a condensate pump, which has been sitting uninstalled for weeks.


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## infinitymike (Jun 6, 2014)

So in the end, what is the total cost of materials for a set up on an existing 40 gallon indirect fired heater?


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## velvetfoot (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm hesitant to add it up for the Nyletherm.  Not huge, but approaching a Geospring on sale including all the fittings, valves, tools, insulation, etc, nevermind a rebate that might be out there (LIPA?).  You'd be dependent on it for all your hot water in summer?  I'd look around for a good price on a Geospring for electric backup.  That said, the Nyletherm is a nifty unit.


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## tom in maine (Jun 7, 2014)

The Nyletherms are $365 delivered to your home. I just installed one for a local church. The fittings for tying to their tank was about $50 with PEX.
They had a volunteer electrician do the electric. It took me about 40 minutes.
The fittings and wiring would be the same for both units.

Most basements have a floor drain. I would prefer to not use a condensate pump unless really necessary. A unit sitting on a couple cinder blocks will provide enough elevation to drain to a floor drain with a garden hose connected to it.
My unit goes through about 40-50' and drains fine, 8" off the floor.

No rebates or tax credits for the Nyletherm.

But when the tank fails, the Nyletherm will still be usable. Unfortunately, the Geosprings and other all in one units become scrap when that happens.
Just sayin'.


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## infinitymike (Jun 7, 2014)

I am still heating my water with wood BUT Thursday, as an insurance policy for my wife, I  bought a 100 gallons of oil since the tank was on the letter "M" of empty. 
That was $348. 

Could of bought a Nyletherm!

Funny thing is the insurance policy failed. 
I woke up this morning and the indirect circulator pump was running but the Wood Gun was below operating temp (140*) and switched over to the oil burner but the oil burner wasn't on and was down to 60*.

I hit the reset button and it tried to refire twice but wouldn't stay lit. 
New load of oil must of kicked up some sludge and clogged the filter, fuel line or nozzle.


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## maple1 (Jun 7, 2014)

infinitymike said:


> I am still heating my water with wood BUT Thursday, as an insurance policy for my wife, I  bought a 100 gallons of oil since the tank was on the letter "M" of empty.
> That was $348.
> 
> Could of bought a Nyletherm!
> ...


 
That post is almost everything that made me get rid of oil, all at once.

The simple high cost of it to start with, and a quite possible mis-fire when you do need it after periods of non-use. Throw in the periodic maintenance needed, and the potential liabilities with just storing the stuff - I'm some glad those days are over for me.

Even though I think I'd only be looking at no more than $100 in electricity to keep us in electric DHW for the months when I might want to not burn wood for it, it won't take too many hot humid days in a row here this summer to finally push me in the car for the 6 hour drive to Searsport, I don't think.


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## velvetfoot (Jun 7, 2014)

My goal for dehumidification is not to have excessive sweating on the cold water pipes.


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## infinitymike (Jun 7, 2014)

maple1 said:


> That post is almost everything that made me get rid of oil, all at once.
> 
> The simple high cost of it to start with, and a quite possible mis-fire when you do need it after periods of non-use. Throw in the periodic maintenance needed, and the potential liabilities with just storing the stuff - I'm some glad those days are over for me.
> 
> Even though I think I'd only be looking at no more than $100 in electricity to keep us in electric DHW for the months when I might want to not burn wood for it, it won't take too many hot humid days in a row here this summer to finally push me in the car for the 6 hour drive to Searsport, I don't think.




I grumbled to my wife as I was writing the check out for the oil guy...."I should have just pulled the oil burner out when I was installing the Wood Gun"


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## huffdawg (Jun 7, 2014)

$85- aquastat
$25- fittings and pex
$6- 2 cinder blocks

X2   because I have two of the units..   I have been filling a 10ltr. bucket with condensate on one of the units per 24 hours and  about half that on the other .  Its me , the wife and 2 kids on the one producing the larger amount  the other just supplies hot water for my two tenants in the suite hence the lesser amount of condensate .    Seems to be no problem for the four of us as long as everyone times their showers appropriately ...   nice getting a break from loading the boiler for 5 months or so..      keeping the aquastat set  at 130


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## maple1 (Jun 8, 2014)

Holy crap - those are some expensive cinder blocks.


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## Fred61 (Jun 8, 2014)

They haven't used cinders as filler in blocks since the end of the coal fired steam locomotive. That's what made them so expensive


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## huffdawg (Jun 8, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Holy crap - those are some expensive cinder blocks.



Sorry Maple I made a mistake ... I bought $24 worth , I needed a few for some other project..   They are $2.99 a piece at Home Depot here .


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## Fred61 (Jun 12, 2014)

I finally have some solid data on my DHW costs. I plugged the Geyser into my Kill-A-Watt device when I put the unit into service last month. The meter records elapsed time as well as electric usage. I was pleased to learn that my DHW is costing me 77 cents a day at .15 per KW/HR. I don't believe that price could be beat by charging storage once or twice a week with wood if someone were paying $175 to $200 per cord. The cost for 4 months will run less than $100.00.


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