# Vermont Castings Warranty Woes



## petrusboots (Sep 1, 2008)

I am new to this forum and have only found it because of some major trouble I have run into.  What led me to this forum in the first place was that my wife was searching the web for warranty info on Vermont Castings.  What she found was a thread on this forum which stated that existing warranties on Vermont Castings wood stoves would no longer be honoured by the new company which bought it after it went bankrupt.

Here is a testament to this reality.  _Please forgive me for the length of this entry._  But please read it, I would like to know if anyone has any ideas on what I could do.

In September of 2007 I bought a non-catalytic large Dutchwest model number 2479.  As far as installation and operation I have followed the instructions to the letter.  I am kind of anal that way.  Within three months of the purchase, the upper refractory began to crack.  And my doubts about the stove which I had been proud to purchase began to fester.  I informed my dealer.  They said they would take care of it.  Following a long wait and needing to clean the chimney, I finally had a look at the brick from the back and noticed it was a more serious problem, then I had initially thought.  Basically, it directly effects the ever-burn system, the company professed to be the best in the business.  I got on the dealers case about it and after some time a new refractory arrived.  Following the instructions and not over tightening, I installed the new refractory and during the first small fire I burned, it began to crack.  In exactly the same place.  My wife actually heard it begin.

My doubts were now not only beginning to fester, but keeping me up at night, listening to every little sound the stove made.  The picture of the little girl sleeping peacefully on the pamphlet no longer gave me any comfort.

This entry went past the allotted 6000 characters in this forum (_total characters came to about 8000_) if you wish to hear how the story continues (this was only the tip of  the iceberg) please click on the link: 
http://www.petrusboots.com/dutchwest_link.htm


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## BrotherBart (Sep 1, 2008)

Only two observations. One change that blasted font and background so that somebody can read it. I had to cut and paste it into Wordpad and change it to keep from getting a headache.

Second. You have a defective stove with a lifetime warranty from a company that does not exist anymore. On top of that you have a dealer that clearly isn't going to do anything for you to fix it. Time to buy another stove.

Also Dutchwest stoves never have been the Ferrari of stoves. They are the lower priced value line of cast stoves sold by VC.


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## petrusboots (Sep 1, 2008)

To be honest I didn't think that I would get much advice that would be useful by laying out my story.  But I did think that it was a wood stove site not a website site.  My choice of background and font mirrors the journal on my website.  Sorry I gave you a headache Brother Bart and if it pleases you I changed the link.

As far as the advice of simply buying a new wood stove, did I mention I was an artist?  I don't spend that kind of money everyday and do not have the funds to simply go out and get a new one.  Besides that fact I am sick and tired of the shysters being allowed to continue doing whatever they want in this world.  My part may be small but it is the only part I can play.  And that is to use the tools available to me (_like the internet)_ to share my story so that others may just land upon it and be able to make a more informed decision when purchasing (_in this case_) a wood stove. 

The Dutchwest may not be the Ferrari of stoves (_as I have found out_) but that's irrelevant.  I could say this, I bought a piece of junk fan made in China from Canadian Tire (_for those who don't know, Canadians also have another term for that chainstore "Crappy Tire_"), it made a little more noise then I liked and when I took it back I got a new one or I could have been reimbursed.  No questions asked.

Furthermore I had my eye on another stove but the salesperson sold and pushed me on this one.  Buyer beware I suppose, but what does that say about the human race.  If we want to change it, we need to realise it starts with us.  So I will do my part and I am not done with that dealer.  As I mentioned I write an online journal and although I left the name, address, website of the dealer out of this thread because I thought it was not appropriate, I will not be so kind when I lay it out in my person journal.  And yes I am taking his *%@ to court.

If it is cool with this site, I ask that you please leave this thread up so that the next time someone should punch in Dutchwest or Vermont Castings this thread may come up.

One last thing.  If Vermont Castings has truly gone out of business then why is this still up there Vermont Castings And to add insult to injury once more, a pdf file of the same dead warranty is still available online.

Thank you and good night.


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## fossil (Sep 1, 2008)

Having finally slogged through your rant in its entirety, I have but two questions:

Why would you not take the dealer up on this offer:  "they would replace my "cast iron top of the line stove" with a metal one."

(BTW, cast iron is, of course, _metal_.  I'm assuming he was referring to a steel stove, of which there are a number of very fine units available). 

And, why in the world, after your experience with this stove, would you insist on this:  "Replace the stove with the one I purchased."


EDIT:  Actually three questions.  You wrote,  "...I didn’t think that I would get much advice that would be useful by laying out my story.  But I did think that it was a wood stove site...".  It _is_ a wood stove site, and what was it that you were expecting, or hoping, that anyone here could do for you?

???  Rick


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## SteveT (Sep 1, 2008)

I can understand the frustration and the feeling that you got hosed -- big time -- by buying this stove. You did.

But expecting the dealer to take it back and give you a full refund just isn't realistic. Without Vermont Castings backing him up he would take the entire loss. 

And going to court would, IMHO, do absolutely nothing. Dealers do not provide warranties, they administer them for the manufacturer. They don't have any obligation beyond what the manufacturer will back them up on. If it was a minor issue I think a dealer might do something out of goodwill. But that is voluntary, not their obligation. Their offer for a steel stove was pretty darn generous under this circumstance. Maybe you can make peace with them and get it reinstated???

The Vermont Castings company you bought from no longer exists. Their assets, including the name, were purchased and is being used by the new owner. But the old VC just ain't around any longer. MAYBE the new owner will step up to warranty coverage. It will be a business decision (how much cost is it worth to protect the company name). So if I were you I'd keep an eye on discussion boards like this and hope for something. But I sure wouldn't expect anything positive to come of it.


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## petrusboots (Sep 1, 2008)

Because if it was steel I wanted I would have bought it in the first place, that is not what I bought (or was sold).

Call it a rant if you want, but I should hope you not be dissed in the same manner or perhaps you should be, to fully understand.

Just ideas... but as I've said, more to inform than to rant.  Sorry I wasted your time fossil and I guess you will know better than to go to one of my threads in the future.

I guess we are all on our own and the next time I feel the need to be of public service you have given me a second thought.

Once again to the webmaster, please leave this thread up so that others may not fall into the same trap I fell into and considering the last reply (Fossil's) I am going to stop this before I flip out once more.

I still have my Cast Iron Fisher and the planet will just have to deal with the emissions and the loss of trees I suppose.

Adios amigos.


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## guest5234 (Sep 1, 2008)

Petrus, I do not think it is wise to come on to a forum as a newbie and go off on one like a child....grab your toys you have thrown out of your pram and try and be civil next time....you might get some good advice from the many genuine people on here my friend.


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## SteveT (Sep 1, 2008)

Have you written the new owners directly? Maybe they have a published policy against honoring warranty claims for the old VC but will accept some on a case by case basis. Couldn't hurt to try.


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## savageactor7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Petrus is an artist and artists are known to be temperamental ...

...here's what I would do were I in your position. Now you should be in possession of 2 refractory tubes. Keep using the one newer one and look for any drop in stove performance. Get the other one over to a certified welder, tell 'em the problem, after he welds it he might anneal it or work some other magic that available to prevent it cracking again. 

If the cracked tube continues to do it job...just keep using it. 

You mentioned a brick problem but I didn't quite understand it. Horizontal  cracks are no big deal a lot of time this happens when peeps throw there wood into the stove...don't do that anymore. If you think there's a relationship between the brick and the cracked tube...just shuffle the bricks around and put the cracked one in a corner. 

Don't be PO'd at the dealer...not his fault.

Just hang in there VC will (I bet) end up honoring it past warranties when the new owners realize they're not selling stoves like they use to...or they will come up with partial warranty. 

I know peeps that use a Dutchwest and it works fine for them...if that non cat stove still heats your house and no smoke is coming out the chimney then its still working. All the great artists have endured hardships ...the Dutchwest is your cross to bear, good luck.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 1, 2008)

savage the refractory package in his stove is cast ceramic, not iron or steel so it can't be welded.

Petrus, your Fisher is a steel stove too. Just the doors are cast iron. Just like the doors on the new efficient steel stoves are cast iron.

Dated an artist once. Took two aspirin, went to bed and got better in a few days.


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## petrusboots (Sep 2, 2008)

Thank you for the last couple of replies which tended to be a bit more constructive.  I will just let the toy one go.
The bricks are ceramic and I have considered creating molds from the ones I have so that I could pore my own should need be.  But my worry is that they should not have cracked so quickly.  I did not believe the saleswoman when she told me that they would last forever but I did not think it would happen so quickly, like after the first small fire, and find it unacceptable.  And the chip out of the back of the stove just buggs me.  It must have been hit somewhere along the road. And who knows what happened?
Anyway, the initial dealer is history, he insulted my being with his antics.  This thing should be covered, he should have looked after me, not tried to play me for a fool. I can not take that kind of stuff anymore from anyone.
I painted some signs once. The local hardware store recommended an undercoat.  I should have know better but I used it. A total of five signs I used this undercoat for. Three of my own and two for customers.  Within a year the paint started peeling off. There was no talk of warranty and no question about it. It was my fault and I stripped them down and repainted them. It took me a month of work to correct the problem.  
Tomorrow I contact another dealer to see if I can help with this.  I need a WETT inspection anyways and will get them to inspect the stove.
Fooled my the doors, I didn't realise that about the Fisher, still it served me well.
I *never* hit any brick with a log. I lean the first log on the andirons and place the second one against the first.  They never even touched the bricks.
Perhaps I will follow up on this thread on what transpires after the inspection.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2008)

Welcome Petrus. Sorry to hear about the bummer experience. I know it's hindsight, but I would have let the dealer replace the refractory on a new stove. This is a serious repair. If it failed, I'd want it to be their installation that failed. 

What was the steel stove offered in exchange? Given the current scenario with VC and their decision to not honor warranties on stoves sold prior to 2008 I would seriously consider taking the steel stove as long as it is equivalent size and value. If you don't like it, sell it and get a top quality stove that suits your aesthetic. Or ask your dealer for a trade-in credit on a better stove that you like. But the bottom line is I think you need to move on to a different stove in order to have peace of mind and most importantly - heat. The stove market is getting very tight right now. The supply is very limited with several brands. Pretty soon I wouldn't be surprised if you had no alternative but to stick with this questionable stove if you don't make a decision soon.


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## wellbuilt home (Sep 2, 2008)

I feel for you, I for one hate getting screwed over . My wife wanted a red vc defiant for years and when i heard about what vc has been up to, i had to get a hearth stone . I think VC had better get in the game, and start doing the write thing . I spent 3100 bucks and my mom and sister both are getting new stoves and neath-er is a VC


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## petrusboots (Sep 2, 2008)

I called the other dealer and he told me some good news.
It turns out that the company who bought Vermont Castings have made the wise decision to honor past warranties.  So I am still under warranty.  He is coming to do the WETT (_in three weeks sad to say, hope we have an Indian Summer_) and will give the stove an independent inspection.
As far as having them put the brick in, I know I should have forced the dealer to do it. But then that is the point, I would have had to get on their case to come up and do it.  When the initial brick cracked (_within 3 months_) I told them and got no response until I contacted them months later and told them to just order the brick and that I would pay for it. And to be fully honest, they did finally give it to me under warranty but did not offer to install it.
Question:  What was the deal when the dealer said they would fix the stove but void the warranty?  It turns out that it is not Vermont Castings policy after all.  That dealer hasn't heard the last of me yet.
As suggested in this thread, the new dealer did say that I may have to contact Vermont Castings personally and if it comes to that I will do it.
Thanks for some of those last responses.  The only way consumers are not going to be dicked around is to not allow it.
I will add to this thread when I have more info and if Vermont does the right thing it will be stated.


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## savageactor7 (Sep 2, 2008)

Well that some good news anyway...let me tell ya when I was growing up VC was the primo stove manufacturer  we couldn't afford. So I have a lot of respect for that name, your only as good as your last decision so it sounds like the cooler heads in the head shop prevailed...well good for them. As a consumer I want to buy in a world of many choices ...not just a handful of stove manufacturers.

Yeah please keep us posted and keep in mind when your dealing with those reps you slide a lot farther on molasses than ya do on sand paper.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2008)

Last word I heard was that only stoves installed in 2008 would get warrantied. You might want to get a warranty guarantee in writing for the stove. 

Regardless, if you can get this covered under warranty, that is great news. Given the circumstances, I'd take the stove to the dealer and insist on them doing a factory certified repair and testing the stove.


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## Metal (Sep 2, 2008)

Just remember, you catch more flies with honey then vinegar (of course, you know what catches the most flies of all : )  Try to stay calm, as hard as that may be, and you will have a lot more success.  You are caught up in a very frustrating situation and I can bet there are thousands more just like you out there trying to get help with their CFM appliances.  I hope it works out for you in the end.

P.S.  maybe Adios Pantalones will let you borrow his avatar, it seems more fitting for your situation:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/member/7601/


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## webbie (Sep 2, 2008)

Sad story.

To cut to the chase, you have been screwed by the usual corporate reorg thing.

The company that owned VC before had VAST resources and still does - but by just making that tiny piece of their pie go belly up, they protect their pots of gold and take it out of your hide. 

So the first screw job is the old company. The new company then bought it at auction - and as BB says, they have no LEGAL reason to spend money on you or the tens of thousands of others with problems. BUT, this is almost a first (as far as I remember) in our industry....or, for that matter, in many others where a BRAND is very valuable. Instead of taking care of you and having you suggest the brand to others...forever - they have made the decision to throw away much of the goodwill of the brand.

That, IMHO, is a bad business decision, but those are made every day...and who knows? They might come to their senses.

The LAST thing we want to do is not welcome you or help you...so please take our friendly bantering lightly. We are here to help. 

I will read your entire rant when I get a chance. Always remember that you have a LOT of power........just by posting your rant, and linking it here - you are likely to start coming up high in google searches about the brand. This puts pressure on the stove company....to modify their policies in the best case, or possibly even to decide that your problem is one worth taking care of.

I feel your frustration. I sold the VC brand in my shop for many years - even though a couple re-orgs, but they never before tried to get away with screwing their customers as far as warranty. The founders and original team at that company would NEVER have considered such a thing.

If it makes you feel any better, it was Canadians who ran the last two VC parent companies down the drain, although it is a American firm that now owns it.

I'll add more when I read your story,


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## webbie (Sep 2, 2008)

Read the story and the other posts.....

1. Things are not as bad as they seem  - not that the cracks are all normal, etc. - but my initial opinion is that there is little, if anything, dangerous about the stove. That should help the part about sleeping at night!

2. Kudos to the new VC company for deciding to take care of your warranties - and perhaps others. Credit should be given where it is due. 

In fairness to BOTH the new company and the former customers - although I would expect previous warranties to be addressed in some form, I do understand (and agree) that warranties older than one year can certainly be scrutinized in a stronger manner than usual. What I mean by that is that companies often go over and above the letter of the warranty - especially VC in the previous years - and take care of things that are not always covered by the written warranty. 

In my opinion it would be fair for them to ask for some understanding from their dealers, distributors AND end users while they attempt to resurrect the brand. Although that may leave some customers with concerns, it passes muster in terms of the overall picture. I say this having been on all sides - customer, dealer, distributor, importer and manufacturer!

Glad your problem was resolved and I hope we hear other such stories of the new company stepping up. Make sure you change your web site, link, etc. to reflect the current story


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## jeff6443 (Sep 2, 2008)

So since my stove was bought installed in 2008 I have a warrenty  .     I like this place , I ll try to be good


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## Shaun (Sep 3, 2008)

I too have some waranty woes.  My damper housing is slightly warped and the lower refractory has a small crack starting in my 3 year old VC Encore Non Cat.  Went to the dealer yesterday, and they told me waranty was no longer valid and that I would have to buy the parts myself.  So at this point, I will see how much the new parts will cost me and decide if I want to repair the VC or go out and buy something else.


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## petrusboots (Sep 3, 2008)

First of all I checked out the avatar, and thanks, you started my day off with a laugh (_full belly_).
Sometimes I come off as an angry person, but I am not, really, believe me.  Gandhi is one of my heroes, along with King and a host of others who made change through non-violent means.  Also, thanks to all who took the time to read my story, I know it was long and too involved but I tried to make it as short as possible without leaving out important details.
As far as the warranty information I received from the new dealer, this is what he _told_ me and as yet I have not followed up on the advice of contacting the company directly. This is not settled yet. But considering what the initial dealer put me through and tried to lay at my doorstep, I feel I should get the stove looked at by the new dealer first, so that I have an independent inspection (_of my wood etc_...) to verify my position before I approach the company (_gathering ammo_).  Because until then, it is only my word against the initial dealers.  This new dealer wanted to know the name of the one I bought the stove from but I would not tell him because I want his word to be as unbiased as possible.  When and if I do need to contact the company, I may just direct them to this thread (_if that is cool with the site ?_) to enlighten them on what happens in the computer age when you try to shirk responsibilities.
And you know what?  I have a feeling Vermont is not my problem.  I have a feeling that the new dealer, _although I did not tell him_, already knows who I bought the stove from (_I have heard other stories concerning this dealer's service, too late to be of use personally_).  I mean, if it is true and Vermont has made this right, that dealer is feeding misinformation out there.  I can't see the company being too pleased with that, seeing how it ends up making them look bad in the end.
I will follow up with this, but I will wait.  I am a patient artist with tempermental moments.  Three weeks, and so far it looks good, it's been warmer lately then it has been all summer.  I am not touching the stove until all this works it's way through.  And when it comes time to fix it, the new dealer will be doing the work.
And yes I agree.  Along with speaking up when wronged, it is just as important to speak up when good comes along.  As I said, I was proud of my purchase and I may just be again.  Hopefully.
One last thing. When I said that I didn't think I would get help here, it was not personal to the site, it was just that I had run this through my brain more than once and knew that my options where limited. It's been good, if only to be given the opportunity to vent.


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## SteveT (Sep 3, 2008)

This is going a bit off topic, but since reading this thread I have been thinking about the cost of warranty in general. As a point of reference, for many years I worked for a large company that made aircraft systems. We carefully tracked the warranty costs and, on average, it came to about 2% to 2.5% of sales. 

I can't imagine a manufacturer making a quality stove - or ANY high quality product  - would have significantly different warranty costs. There are vast differences between aircraft parts, wood stoves (or for that matter cars or televisions or dishwashers or whatever) but wouldn't any manufacturer strive to get it so that warranties cost no more than a few percent of sales? Anything not spent on warranty drops to the bottom line.

The new owner of VC paid over $40 million for the acquisition of assets. I believe the most valuable asset by far is the name. So if my logic holds they could invest another $1 million or so and have a viable business with a industry-leading name. Or they could take the "penny wise" approach and destroy the company name. 

I'm now guessing that favorable warranty resolution as Petrus got will become routine.


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## webbie (Sep 3, 2008)

Enginerep,

Based on my experience, most stove companies can take care of warranties for 1 to 2%. This may differ with pellet stoves (maybe 5%), but VC does not make Pellet stoves.

Keeping the cost down is a matter of management style and working with the customers and dealers. I have found that Being a Human Being goes a long way! When I was the Tarm importer, we spent about 2% a year taking care of ALL warranties - and that included 20 year warranties on older models! 

We had numerous situations where it could have cost us thousands (for a fix), but my customer service guy was so good...he would get on the phone with the customer and next thing the user would be happy with $175 (maybe to get something welded in a rare case of a leak)......

I guess we have to give the new company time to digest the operations and then perhaps they will hire some of the right people.....that can make all the difference. 

Of course, it should be said that stove warranties have NEVER been complete (like cars, etc.)......where you simply make a claim and they fix it. The dealers generally lose money on warranty claims.....low travel allowance (if any), etc.

But because the amount of warranties has been low over the years, dealers rarely complained. 

Customers can be very understanding when things are laid out to them in a honest manner. When we were dealers, we always explained to the customer that the warranty was NOT through us - it is/was a manufacturers warranty - but we would do everything in our power to make certain we went to bat for the customer.


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## petrusboots (Sep 4, 2008)

"Dibble Dab Dibble Dab", the angry artist is back.
In my last post I said that I was going to wait for the new dealer to have a look at my stove but I have reconsidered it.  With regard to winter coming and others that have warranty issues looking for answers, I am going to give Vermont Castings a call tomorrow.  For others with problems, this is what the new dealer told me to do.  Call VC, that they (_Vermont Castings_) would send a team over to assess and if there were problems covered under warranty, that he would be the one to do the work. He also told me that the contact numbers on the VC site are operational.
I agree with Webmaster, the dealer is a vital link in the chain and when that link is weak the customer and the company loose out.
Tomorrow we see what happens and I will follow up in this thread.


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## STOVEGUY11 (Sep 4, 2008)

The Company CFM you bought your Dutchwest from no longer exists. The new company MHSC that currently owns them sent out a news letter dated July 25th stating no warranites would be held proior to January 1st 2008. If you find a dealer to replace your parts, jump on it. Cuz your not going to get another chance. It sounds like that dealer is going to eat the cost in parts, not many would be willing to do that.


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## tradergordo (Sep 4, 2008)

Hey Petrus - well I see you've read some of the other threads now.  I have the same stove as you, if you follow the link in my signature it gives a whole lot more info, but in particular if you scroll down to the very bottom of that page, I link to another page I created that shows step by step with pictures how to make your own replacement refractory pieces - this could be useful to you.

I feel your pain and I'm very sad to hear it.  This line of stoves, as I'm sure you've figured out by now, has had some pretty bad feedback on the forums, although your problems are more extreme than most have reported.  I would like to see pictures of the damage if possible.  You said the side door was warped - this and other damage could have been caused by an over-fire.  The over-fire could have been caused by leaky seals.  These stoves are well known for coming straight from the factory with bad seals and gaskets that stick to the cast iron and pull loose after the first couple fires (I personally hate the rutland gasket cement they use and I hope no one uses that junk when they replace their gaskets, just use 100% slicone like the other stove manufacturers are doing).  

You mentioned that you put new gaskets on it, so maybe this stopped the leak, but the damage was already done?  Don't know.   You did not mention if you are using a temperature monitor - but you should be, and it would also be helpful to know what temps you have been seeing (and how they were measured) to help determine if there is still a leak.

Anyway, its good to hear that some dealers are still reporting that warranties will be honored for stoves bought before 2008.  Keep us updated on your progress.  And yea if there is still any chance that you can get a different model replacement stove, by all means take advantage of the offer.  

As far as safety goes - I'm still not sure there is a safety issue - if its over firing, or you see glowing metal parts, then you have a safety concern and should not use the stove.  Otherwise, cracks in refractory parts are pretty normal and do not affect operation.

And like others said - if you can remain calm you're going to get better help all around (from dealers, from the company itself, or from people on an internet forum) despite the fact that you have every right to be angry.

p.s.  You mentioned several times about checking your wood moisture - I don't see the relevance here at all, even if you were burning wet wood (which it doesn't sound like you are) that has no relevance to the damage to your stove.  Or was the guy from the dealer trying to see if your wood was excessively dry?


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## savageactor7 (Sep 4, 2008)

^Dude that wood crane you made is the cats meow...excellent solution for that dirty long haul.  Yeah Petrus check out tradergordo's site lot of info there on your stove.


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## petrusboots (Sep 5, 2008)

First of all thanks for the info tradergordo it looks like I am going need all the info I can get. Because here is The Word (_taking a page from Cobert_).
I was wrong and everyone else who said that the warranties previous 2008 are void, are right.  After following the new dealers advice of going to the Vermont Castings site to find contact information in reaching the company directly, all I wanted was a number and this I could not find.  So I called the new dealer to ask if he could give me one and that is when he filled me in on a recent meeting he had concerning Vermont Castings and CFM.  He told me the bad news.  They have left _me_ and I am sure, more of _us_, in the cold.  For anyone who has run into warranty issues, check this number out 1-800-525-1898.  The best they could do was a recording.  I suppose in a lame effort providing no one to yell at.
For anyone concerned about my tempermental nature, not to worry, because my anger has been replaced by acceptance of the fact that in the end anyone who has wood heat, cuts, splits and is prepared for winters without the worry of what price oil is, tend to have a self-sufficient nature.  Which I have long held.
Regarding the initial dealer, who's service left much to be desired despite offering to replace all parts voiding the voided warranty, that bridge (_pardon the pun_) has been burned, torched and laid to waste.  His antics of casting all blame in my direction are a seperate issue, which I will deal with in the way I see fit. I will work with the new dealer but when I asked if he could rebuild the defective product he said that was not his forte.  So there we are again, (_short of this community_) on my own.  I can get the parts (_who knows for how long_) but it is up to me to put them in and make this stove (_I was once proud of, but now am trying hard not to despise_) work.  I look at it now and it just reminds me of the fact that yes, to quote a recent decent man, "We are in the, you are on your own society."  Corporations, what is wrong with them, are they not made up and run by fellow humans?
Well... seems I am going too deep into this and I have to come back to the basics of keeping my family and I warm through this coming winter.  Bread and butter, I think it's called and I will end this thread with this.  If the company which purchased Vermont Castings feels they can do it once and get away with it, be assured that they will do it again.  It's quite simple really.  If I let my child get away with something, her bad habits persist and won't change.  I say it now, to anyone who is in the market for a new stove, stay away from Vermont Castings and the new company, Monessen Hearth Systems Company (MSHC) Dave Barrett President and CEO, which bought it, they have taken the name but do not stand behind the product. Just my opinion and what should I know, I am just a consumer who bought their product.  That number once again, CFM Corp 1-800-525-1898
Now it's my wife who's angry.  Woo-Hoo.
Leaving on a positive note.  The one good thing about all this is? Finding this site and I will go through tradergordo's links but for now I have to lick my wounds and chill the vibe which is running through my house.

"We are very excited to be adding the Vermont Castings and Majestic lines
to our extensive selection of fireplace and hearth products," says Dave
Barrett, President and CEO of MHSC. "These brands are exceptionally
well-respected in the marketplace, and have a loyal following among
distributors, dealers, retailers and consumers." Reuters


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## tradergordo (Sep 5, 2008)

If you follow my links - in my "review" thread, I post a link to the service manual.  It has complete step by step instructions with pictures that describe how to completely rebuild your stove.

Also, I called the 800 number you posted, pushed 1 for "homeowner".  I don't know if we heard the same message - but the message as it exists currently, says if you bought your stove from a dealer, go back to the dealer for support and warranty work.  It does NOT say your warranty is void, or your stove is no longer supported.  Going though the dealer you purchased your stove from for support and warranty work was ALWAYS the CFM policy, this is not new.


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## gpcollen1 (Sep 5, 2008)

My sympathy for your issues Petrus.  What a royal pain!

Just to say this again so folks understand - often times folks like Monessen purchases Assets through a fire sale or bankruptcy or whatever - Assets Only.  Not Liabilities.  If they had to take the liabilities, they would not purchase it - or would maybe take it for free.  This is indeed part of this great big evil world...


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## STOVEGUY11 (Sep 5, 2008)

VC will continue to live on as it has over the years just in yet another form. Its a good American name product.


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## webbie (Sep 5, 2008)

Well, I was right, wrong and then right again!

As of now, I must agree with Petrus and others - would not suggest that people look at a VC or Dutch product because any company that would leave their existing customers behind is just as likely to do the same with their new ones! The record has been poor the last few years anyway (they tripled some parts prices, etc.)

I wish them well, but would not tell anyone in my family to buy one, and by extension no one here. 

As to assets and liabilities and ethics and morality - if a company wants the goodwill and reputation of a well-regarded brand, they have to obviously please the customers who spent money on that brand. They do not appear to be doing so....

Oh well, probably more business for our community....helping people solve their VC and Dutch problems.


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## petrusboots (Sep 6, 2008)

Just to follow up on some of what tradergordo mentioned.
"Side door 'brick' cracked and warped." Not the door itself but as I have mentioned I have never overfired the store.
"New gasket" Yes I did put a new gasket on, and played with it to try and fill up the area at the centre of the door where the leak was.  You see, that is where I thought the problem might have been, that I had a leak.  The paper test still did not pass after I tried that. But then I noticed that one of the hinge pins was not seated in the door hinge as the other was.  And if I lift up on the door, it actually moves up and down.  Those hinges leave something to be desired if you ask me.  The two other older stoves I have, have more substantial hinges that have never had a problem.  Also, they have two doors rather then that one big one.  A better design in my opinion.
"Temp monitor." Don't have one, guess I will get one.
"remain calm"  Too late for that. And regarding the wood moisture test, that occurred when the original dealer's (_who sold me the stove_) "inspection team" came over in the guise of checking out the stove but where really looking for a way out of responsibilities in proving anything I might have done to create the problem.  And that, more than anything else, is what pissed me off regarding the dealer.  He tried to play me for a fool, instead of just being honest and doing his best to help me. Voiding a warranty I bought into was not an option as far as I was concerned. Little did I know.
When I bought this house it had two stoves on one chimney. One in the basement the other on the second floor.  I've made it through ten Canadian winters and two chimney fires until I had had enough of that.  That is why I bought the large Dutchwest, to replace the two I was using.  I put it in the basement removing the the 90% in the chimney and have vented the room, exchanging and filtering the air throughout the house.  I have to say, my plan worked good but for one weak link.  The Dutchwest stove.  Although I will say this in its defence.  The amount of energy I save in cutting and splitting is phenomenal. I get a load of logs dumped in my yard when needed and do the work by myself.  Anything to ease that pain is a bonus.
"The 1-800-number" Ya I got it.  They passed responsibility off onto the dealer.  But what do you mean?  Do you mean that that is always the way it was? That the dealer had to eat the cost of manufacturing defects?  Well if that is the case, no wonder he ignored me for months, tried to pull the wool over my eyes and shaft my ass.  Excuse language, but I think considering... I have done well with that so far.
Tradergrodo you asked for pictures and I feel that one (_which I had sent to the dealer at the end of last winter along with others_) is the one most relevant to my problems.  I can only suspect though. It is of the chip out of the back of the stove.  The "inspection team" said that it could have happened when I laid the stove on its back to put the legs on.  I did not.  I followed the instructions to the letter. That is the way the stove came out of the crate. I only noticed it after messing around with all that was going wrong.  And although the dealer said, "the chip was not a problem", (_which might be true_) how it got there and what it might have done to the delicate nature of this stove quite possibly could be. Here is a pic. It should never have left the factory.


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## webbie (Sep 6, 2008)

I don't see a problem with the chip (operationally)......which may not help much, but take it for what it is worth....those ribs seem overbuilt....heck, if I was at the factory, I'd have ground this one smooth and the other side to match......
 :coolsmile: 

(I assume this is the exposed rear of the stove?)

It definitely could have happened (and in fact probably did happen) after it left the factory...after all, castings are cheap (to them) and they have no reason to pass something like this through, as opposed to throwing it back in the pot.

I can assure you that the dealer was never supposed to assume any "pass-off" of such responsibility....and I was (and my store still is) a VC dealer since 1985. It's fine for manufacturers to have inside agreements with dealers about what the factory expectations are, but that stuff is not supposed to be public or a reason to deny or make excuses.


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## fossil (Sep 6, 2008)

Your stove may have some problems, but that chipped corner of that casting isn't one of them.  Rick


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## tradergordo (Sep 7, 2008)

I read everything you posted including your website, and I'm still not sure what is wrong with your stove?  Maybe I just don't have the attention span.  I thought you said warped door, but apparently that is not the case.  As others said, that chip in your picture, is not a big deal and won't affect the stove operation.  Cracked side door refractory is so common that in the 2008 model they added a protective cover over this piece.  In another thread I posted a link to the new manual where you can see this.  On  my website I gave my own instructions with pictures on how you can protect this piece on your own with a $2 bracket found at home depot, and I also gave step by step instructions for casting your own complete replacement part.

As for warrany policy, no you still have things confused, the policy was always to go to your dealer for waranty claims - this apparently has not changed (according to the message at the 800 number you posted).  That does NOT mean the dealer is stuck with the bill, they just fill out the paper work and get replacement parts for you, etc.  In other words, they are the middle man between you and the manufacturer.  There have been reports that warranties would not be honored, but that isn't the message in that recording you mentioned, and didn't that other dealer also say they could do waranty work?  

It sounds like you believe there is still something wrong with your gaskets- if there is no damage to the cast iron (no warping) you should be able to fix the gaskets fairly easily yourself.  I can only reiterate that you should use pure silicone sealant and not rutland gasket cement.  Silicon sealant is like $2-3 a tube, the 3/8" premium graphite impregnated fiberglass rope gasket should be around $10 from any stove shop with a spool or even ace hardware.  Also, the paper doesn't have to tear, it should just not pull out easily (I know the manual says tear, but some paper tears more easily than others).  You'll also have to adjust the door latches.  The owners manual describes adjusting the door latches and even what to do if replacing the gaskets and adjusting the door latches isn't enough.


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## petrusboots (Sep 7, 2008)

I know the chip has nothing to do with how the stove performs.  My point was... what did it take to make that sort of damage?  And what other damage to the stove could have occured as a result? I don't know.  All I do know, is that it was shipped from the factory that way.  It was let through.  Unless of course, the dealer had the stove out of the crate, broke it, put it back in the crate, while waiting for a likely victim (_like myself_) to come along and buy it cash and carry.  You see, I transported and installed it to save myself some money. That just leaves it at my word against a figment of my imagination. The chipped piece was not in the crate.

Tradergordo. Sorry you had to go through my diatribe.  So far you have given me the most hope in keeping warm this winter.  The new dealer is coming to have a look at it when I get the WETT inspection done.  I will see what he can do for me.  And although I have not done it yet, I will go through all your stuff to learn more about my stove and most likely do the work myself.  Because as far as I can see, there ain't no warranty on this beast.  Can you believe it though?  I bought this thing three months before CFM went bankrupt and the fun began.  Someone has a sick sense of humor and all I can say is, it's a good thing I still have mine.


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## webbie (Sep 7, 2008)

A forklift fork could have done it - or it could have been packed that way at the factory - QC is usually better than that, though...but maybe it was getting near the end and they slacked off....

I'm a little confused once again. I though stoves sold in 2008 WERE fully covered......or maybe even in the last year. Was I wrong? We have the exact document on display somewhere here.....


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## petrusboots (Sep 8, 2008)

I bought mine in September of 2007.  As I mentioned three months before the full throated run around began. Just my luck. If you believe in luck?
Here is a serious question I would like an answer to.  I am not quite sure how to describe it but will do my best.  It regards the fire and how it burns.  My previous stoves did not have windows so I could never see what was happening inside.  So a window on the fire was new to me.  This is what I see happening and am not sure if it is normal.
With the everburn engaged and the stove hot, sometimes the fire seems lazy and moves like a mushroom cloud off the logs causing the fire to slowly hoover at the top and go down the sides in blue fames.  It does this in waves.  It seems like it is burning off gases within the box.  Makes me a little nervous, considering I do not trust the stove.  Is this normal?
Or I have this happening.  The fire shoots up into the lower refractory when the everburn is engaged.  Is this normal?


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## webbie (Sep 8, 2008)

Yes, the dancing flames are normal - had it in my Resolute Acclaim, which uses a similar combustion design. 

And, yes, the flames are supposed to go up the lower refractory chamber....when the downdraft lever is engaged.


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## petrusboots (Sep 8, 2008)

Thank you.  That is all I needed to know and along with Tradergordo's help I think I can manage with the stove I've got.  So a message to you Rudy, laugh all you want but community service is where it's at.


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## savageactor7 (Sep 8, 2008)

If that stove will burn without smoking and keep you warm...it's doing its job. Done!  Glad it all worked out Petrus stick around and keep us posted.


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## BurningIsLove (Sep 8, 2008)

Petrus said:
			
		

> This is what I see happening and am not sure if it is normal.
> With the everburn engaged and the stove hot, sometimes the fire seems lazy and moves like a mushroom cloud off the logs causing the fire to slowly hoover at the top and go down the sides in blue fames.  It does this in waves.  It seems like it is burning off gases within the box.  Makes me a little nervous, considering I do not trust the stove.  Is this normal?
> Or I have this happening.  The fire shoots up into the lower refractory when the everburn is engaged.  Is this normal?



Yep, thats what you should be aiming for.  Sometimes the gases burn at a consistent rate (real hot) so you dont get the mushroom cloud effect.  When you damper down to get the long burns, what I find happens in my DW is that the gases build up in the top of the firebox which has the closed bypass door.  A random flame or pressure will then ignite those gases and you see a slow motion combustion that gets sucked 'downhill' towards the secondary chamber.  As long as those combustion moments arent too extreme, e.g. you can see them but not really HEAR them, and the emissions coming out of the top of the stack are clean, then you are golden.  If those moments produce a louder, auditory roar, then sometimes it can back puff through the air control level as the small secondary chamber doesnt have enough bore to vent those gases quickly enough, and it comes back out the air valve.  In this case, just open the bypass, let the fire visibly build up in the firebox, then close the bypass again.

The most desirable (I find) that gets me the huge amounts of BTUs and 10+ hour burns is when those 'phantom flames' are small & consistently showing up every few seconds.  That is the sweet spot.  You dont want to see lots of flames attached to burning splits, as that means you are burning through the fuel too quickly and get shorter burn times.

For all the quirks in this stove, the one thing I have never once found it lacking in is producing heat.  My large DW heats 3000 square feet effectively, to the point where I have to open windows & doors even on the coldest nights to keep the rooms from getting too hot.


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## FireWalker (Sep 8, 2008)

You are sooooo right about that sweet spot. It is effected not only by fresh air damper opening, but also by outside air pressure, temprature and wind speed/gusts. If you can sustain the floating blue/yellow flames, your stove is working very well indeed.


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## petrusboots (Sep 9, 2008)

Again thanks for the info and confirmation.  It eases my worries about any secondary damage which may have resulted from the chip and my suspicions of how it got there.  As long as it is working right, that is all I needed to know, really.  Wish my dealer had been as much help as I have found here.  It would have served him better.
I will keep the post running, when I have the new dealer look at things and if any warranty still applies but I don't hold out much hope on that count.
Also, with all the help I have received here I feel I should add something of my own sometime.  Someday I will post on how I ran the heat and cold air exchange throughout my house producing the same heat with one stove instead of two, while cutting fuel consumption by at least half, if not more.


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## ilmbg (Sep 10, 2008)

Petrus- I am so glad you posted your trial and tribulations with this stove- I just posted a question last night about VC- I did not know about the taking over by another company and the poor service of the past.  I was looking at a smaller stove- the Intrepid II, but now I think I will bypass the company.  I want the 'look' of this type of stove, though.  I too, would have ranted and raged- I fully agree that if you let that dealer get away with it (I bet he has been getting away with it for YEARS), he will continue to do so.  SOMEBODY has to try to put a stop to it- if many people follow your lead the USA would be a better place.  Cuddos! Perfect timing for me!


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## petrusboots (Oct 14, 2008)

ilmbg... glad to be of service but I wish I didn't have to be.
I have finally gotten word back from the other dealer who I thought might be of service to me.  They did the WETT and to get there... it has taken this long. Word on the warranty was this "_Unfortunately the warranty is no longer in effect.  It would be the selling dealers discression to service the parts_."  As mentioned, I have long since burned the bridge as far as the "selling dealer".  And to put the final stamp on this, I have put up a "consumer report" on the dealer. Since I put it up, it has made it to the first page of search results.
Also, I have moved on.  I have gone to tradergordo's site and must thank him for going through all the trouble to be of service.  Thanks. I _quickly_ checked out how you made your bricks.  Although I wonder how you might make a lower or upper refractory, being that they are more complex than the loading door brick.  I have an idea for that.  I worked in a boat works and have worked with fiberglass.  When it comes time to replace those bricks my plan is to use the original brick as a plug by covering it with fiberglass creating a mold which can be used time and again, whenever needed. When it comes to that point, I will post the process on this site.
Until then, lets all keep warm, hopefully this winter won't be to cold.


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## BurningIsLove (Oct 14, 2008)

Just read your consumer report & looked at the images.  While not commenting on the seemingly painful experience you had w/ your dealer, just a quick comment.

On the image you have entitled "replacement brick crack appeared.....", I have some similar hairline cracks on my refractory brick as viewed w/o removing the refractory material.  So far to date, those small hairline cracks have not impacted the performance of the stove, as they do not penetrate all the way through the refractory material to the backside and do not appear to be growing any larger.  That said, it is disturbing that they appeared immediately after a break in fire.


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## petrusboots (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah I'm not too worried about the cracks at this point. I'm going to burn the stove as it is this winter. Keeping a close eye.
Sometime soon I am going to make some replicas of the bricks out of wood (_instead of casting the mold off an old brick_).  Then as mentioned I will use them as plugs to make a fiberglass mold.  Once I do that I will follow tadergordo's instructions with regard to the material needed to make the bricks.  I feel after I do that and am able to take care of things myself I will feel much better regarding the stove.
The only thing I still wonder about with making the bricks is how I will drill the holes.  But I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.
With regard to the report, I am surprised to see that it comes up on the second search page in google by typing in Vermont Castings Warranty.  Wonder if anyone will notice.


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## Hermie (Oct 15, 2008)

I feel your pain Petrus Here is my post from the other related thread. 



			
				Hermie said:
			
		

> Particle Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## petrusboots (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey, although it is good to have company, this sure does suck.  Doesn't it? I have had similar stories sent in private and it has to make one wonder.  I'm someone who can do things for myself and will figure this thing out but what about other people?  Maybe the little old lady who bought one of these stoves in good faith?  What do they do? Buy and replace an endless stream of bricks on a pention?  I suppose there are not a lot  of old ladies burning wood but I have heard of some around my area.
Point is.  What does this new company want me to do for their lack of respecting a lifetime warranty? Give them more of my limited resources in money buying bricks from them?  Screw that, I will make my own.  Hey, maybe there is an opportunity here to make some extra cash for someone.  Make your own bricks undercut the company and sell them to dissatisfied customers.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 15, 2008)

Since Monessen has decided to move their steel stove fabrication operation up to Vermont and build steel stoves at VC also, they better hope that any new customers don't have an Internet connection or the ability to find hearth.com.


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## brigadier1 (Dec 5, 2008)

HI   guys and gals         i bought a 2479     in the fall of 2005,, i still like it enough  as all i heat with is wood  and not a drip of oil.  my fuel door refractory  is broke in  2 as we speak    lol,,  its just hanging there  by the center bolt.  i got the 1800 number for vc   on here  or whoever owns  the co  now,,,  i was   ultra polite[MISTAKE}   i called the warranty dept    and  asked oo soo nicely  if they had any information   regarding the refractory  piece on the fuel door       as far as cracking into   2 pieces,,,     the guy  say         no       then silence for a long while.       i said  o ok  ahh  i just  ordered the new piece   so i am not looking for anything for free,,,    then i asked     to the guy          do you have  any reports  on this issue as being   widespread problem with the 2479,,,,  his reply             not as far as i know.   silence for a long time.{he was being very short with me}       he assured me tha  after i replace  the new part   it shouldn;t happen again....    lol          i was like ok ty for  taking my call and hung up      all the well knowing     i just found out and confirmed        i got the 2005 SUCKER AWARD   ..  the initial price on the stove was 1599     the rep was there from  dutchwest   or whoever they are   and said    she would allow an additional  200 discount if i bought it today..  i mean  i liked the looks of it enough  and was probably gonna buy it anyway  soo    i   did  buy  it ,,, i mean i have been reading the posts on here  getting  more scared  evry  paragraph   lol,,,,,  i do get   alot of heat outta this stove  and now  i don;t feel so bad,,,   lol   knowing i am not the only  1  who is having these problem  {refractory piece on the fuel door}  it cost me 116 bucks  so far  for 3 years of operation.. hope the bleeding stops here.     thank you ppl for all the great information     please keep up the good work       Dave


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## webbie (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for the report and welcome to the Forums...

Well, I must say that $116 for 3 years is not bad - not bad at all if you are a 100% wood heat type. Stoves used like that in New England will often need parts and service over the years.....

The little expenses are not the problem. Where it can run into $$ is those folks who cannot do their own work and must replace a few parts....such a job can run $400-$600+ (for instance, cat converter and refractory, etc. in a cat encore)....

As with most things, those capable of DIY end up way ahead of the game.


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## brigadier1 (Dec 5, 2008)

i am not a diy person   lol,,,        although  it looks as though becoming that way  will  become  handy...   so i did read   alot of the posts on here and i thought they were execellent,, but now  what?  just keep ordering  additional refractory plates for the fuel door?/ heck  if i have to i;ll stock up on em   lol,,,  the door  on the 2479    just as soon as   15 mins ago  is starting to  close  hard  because the fuel door refractory  is bowed  like a canoe  lol    if this falls off completely should i not burn the stove??    i realize  it would just be a recommendation  but  will  it  warp the actual door???     500 pounds or not    if i get determined   i;ll through it out on my front lawn   head over heels  lol,,,  kinda wanted my 1399  to go for more than  3 years,,,      i have been burning wood here  for  like 11 years   no oil,,  i figured it out  before  but i have saved  aprox 10,000  dollars  maybe more  no counting electricity bill,, over this period of time,     we burned wood  which i get for free,,  when oil was 89 cents a gallon    ,,  cool  ok you ppl   keep on reporting and  thank you for taking the time to let other ppl know  what you have learned   ,,  keep warm    Dave


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## CTBurner (Dec 6, 2008)

116.00 3 years= bargain, even an  oil burner has to be cleaned once at year at about 125.00


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## petrusboots (Dec 6, 2008)

It has been a while since I added to this thread and since I started it I will fill in on how things have been going.
First of all, early this morning I got a call from another Vermont warranty casualty.  He found my personal page on the issue. Seems like we are a growing breed.  This guy (sorry it was early and I didn't get your name) who called me at the ungodly hour of 7 something was in a familiar turmoil.  Like brigadier1 his loading door is split down the middle and ready to fall off.  Mine looks the same.  As yet I have not followed tradergordo's instructions in making one of my own. Link to tradergordo's site http://gordosoft.com/woodstove/ A wealth of info.
One day I will get to it, as for now, I am just burning the stove and loading it with care.
The hairline crack in the upper refractory has not travelled any further, so for now I am cool with that also.
Anyway... the guy who called me got the same song and dance from his dealer as numerous others have gotten.  Vermont Casting the blame on the customer seems to be their new motto.  Saddly there was not a whole lot I could do to help him short of telling him to go to this site and ask questions of the helpful.  He was not computer fluent and as yet I don't see his question posted.  So I will relay what he told me of his problems.  I think his major concern was some serious back puffing.  I have not had this problem, so does anyone here have any suggestions?
On a side note... the page I put up linking to my dealer's website numerous times has moved it to one below his site in the searches and I think he has noticed.  The reason I believe this to be true is because one day when I went to the end of the drive, taking my daughter to the bus, on the telephone pole directly across from my drive, he had put up a sign advertising his store.  Wow... that's the best he could do?  They actually went through the trouble of using a ladder to put it up because I had to knock it down with a long stick.  If they had only put that much effort into customer service, I might be impressed.


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## kb richard (Dec 8, 2008)

Prefire.

When I am using refractories in areas of importance or high service or some other necessity I fire the parts first at or above their intended use points.  I do this slowly and carefully in an electric kiln. 

If it's not possible to pre fire your refractory I'd suggest keeping a very small fire going for a long time then slowly turning it up over the course of at least one day if not longer till the stove is ripping hot and then keep firing at that temp for at least a few more hours, and dont just shut the stove off, turn it down, somewhat slowly.

If the refractory shapes are stock shapes you can always buy a better brick from a refractory supplier. If the part is not a stock part you can always buy a better castable or ramable product from a refractories dealer. If your going to make your own shapes be sure to account for shrinkage.


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## brigadier1 (Dec 9, 2008)

hi everyone!   this morning  the bottom half  of the fuel door refractory    finally fell off,,lol  [o what a big surprise as it has been hanging there for a coupke days if not more,,, i took a chance  and loosened the center screw{in the middle of the fuel door inside}   put the broken piece of refractory back in its original spot,,  and tightened the  center screw-------hey  it stayed there   less than a half hour later i opened the fuel door,,,  and  it fell off agin....lol----  i put it back in place  1 more time,,,  and now  have to act like i am handling  rotten eggs  when opening fuel door,  i went to my woodstove dlr  where i had purchased stove and previously had ordered the new pice 116 bucks...  i was soooooooooooooooooooooooo nice to the woman{didn;t make a bit of difference}    and asked about my parts--------DID I CALL YOU YET  WAS  THE REPLY}    I SAID NO BUT I JUST WANTED TO CHK ON THE ORDER STATUS  as i have already paid for this item.   lol she seemed put out   but i still smiled{ oscar material}      she said  it should be in soon??????????????????????????????????????i asked  like   1-2 days or 1 week???    she said call me tommorow;;;;;ok  so no help again,, i am getting used to it,,,  i am now  venturing on   furnace cement rated at 2000  degrees,,,stove is cooling now{so is my house}   tonight  i am going to attempt    to repair  pice of refractory,,  i;ll let you guys and gals know what happens,,,      gettin a tad chilly over here in newhampshire             Dave


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## sullystull (Dec 9, 2008)

Don't waste your time with the cement.  Spend the $20 or so, get some castable refractory material--Rutland sells some-and follow TraderGordo's instructions for casting a new one.  But first, call the dealer and tell them to stick that new part you know where and get your money back.


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## brigadier1 (Dec 9, 2008)

Sully stull,,,,   I like your attitude,,and although    the  mold job   sounds like its outta my league,, i think i am going to get educated on it, for future  use,,  now i Never claimed  to be the sharpest tool in the wood shed,,  but today  i was sitting at the 2479    and low and behold     this stove has 2 doors       hmmmm   ok  lets make the original fuel door  into like a dukes of hazard thing  where that door never ever ever gets reopened{ kinda like welding your doors shut}   and load the wood  in the front door- which by the way i never ever ever used it so  the seal and everything is like brandy new.now in doing this   i will have to wait until the  coals all burn down almost all the way  but..i refuse to call for oil over here so,,,   if none of these options work i guess someone could cut a hole on the top of the stove and we can convert it into a top loading stove   lol---------  sully thanks  for your advice as it sounds  very solid...   renaming stove as of today                 Daisy duke           keep your heels warm      Dave


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## ImagineSolace (Jan 20, 2009)

Since we live in the cold region of northeastern VT in May of last year (08) we felt we needed to look for a new woodstove. We went to several stores and although close to the NH line where we could have purchased it without paying taxes, the dealer in VT appeared more interested in explainig each stove to us. We went to the Chimney Sweep and looked over each stove, told them what we needed to heat and how long we might need to go in between loading, etc. We purchased a Duch West and it was delivered and installed in late July. We started using it (with the pre-burn per instructions) and soon after had problems. The brick (?) on the door cracked, a brink on the back interior cracked and the seal around the door started coming off. We called the dealrer and he said he'd order us new bricks and just use some sealant/adhesive around the door. We had the stove 3 months and they wanted us to fix the seal around the door? After many back and forth calls to the dealer, we finally got our bricks in late Nov. Here it is Jan. of 09 and once again the door brick has cracked and fallen off. I called the dealer and he said (as I suggested) it was a faulty set-up on the door. Tighten it too much and it cracks. Tighten it per instructions and it still cracks. They're now putting a piece of metal or something between the screw and the brick so it won't crack but because DW was bought out, although we have a 3 year warrenty, anything from last year is no longer under warranty and it could cost us about $100.00 for the new brick. We can't afford to just go out and purchase another stove plus having installed so we're stuck and at the mercy of this new owners of the company. I know it isn't the dealers fault although their service department is a bit unorganized, but this is so wrong when it comes to the purchasers of these stoves. I would think the new folks who purchased it would want to get their money's worth by keeping it a good name with good support. But perhaps they were just looking for a write off.


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## kb richard (Jan 21, 2009)

Eastern Refractories Company, Inc was  on Barre St, Montpelier don't know if they are there anymore, they sell bulletproof refractories. Buy a better grade refractory brick then the OEM brick that came w your stove. Call em up...tell them Kraig the glassblower sent you. They sell other awesome refractory too. I am not as into castable as I am into ramable products. These guy sell the real McCoy stuff not crap your going to find retail for consumer or commercial use. Were talking industrial grade here. Stuff aint cheap but it'd as good as you can get.  And if you do use a castable/ramable call a potter to get it Cone 10 fired for you. Don'T cast in place. Pay attention to shrinkage rates when building a mold. The guys at Chimney Sweep are good dudes. They probably took some hosing from that company too. See if you can get them to work that company that bought out your stove company for you one more time.  ChimSweep does enough volume that they should be able to wring some concessions from those new owners. Remind them about that. They might be one of that stoves biggest distributors. Don't let up. Don't forget to write the attorney general too. Worth a shot.  Maybe that moron can do something for you. If he can't chew him out. Public officials are at least good for something.  Venting.


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## brigadier1 (Nov 6, 2009)

11-6-09    the new refractory i bought,,, last december is still not cracked.  in one of the lower corners  it is stamped  VC    i am assuming this is a vermont castings mark.   the first one from the factory did not have this mark on it,, no marks or initials. possibly an up grade because of how many ppl had this refractory break on them,,,{fuel door refractory only}  i do not know because the company  pretty much refused to acknowledge that this was , an issue.  i have now been burning every night,,, as i use no oil in my house for heat,,   will keep u updated,, on the new piece,,  stay warm,, be careful and have fun      Dave


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## brigadier1 (Dec 15, 2010)

12-15-10        been 2 years since refractory on door was replaced.. no issues to report, all refractorys inside stove look fine,     heat   out put is excellent!   {oak maple and  shag bark hickory wood for fuel. puff backs , is a small to med concern.  i suspect this is a short between the wheel and the seat,,   the driver,,  and that'd be me.  very controllable stove though very air tight so when you shut off the air supplys,,    stove responds very nicely.      easy to light stove with bottom ash pan door,, one or 2 small coals     very easy to  reignite,, in the early am  or whenever. overall i am a happy   vermont castings  customer,, i was very worried the first time i read these forums, as the trouble other owners had wqere far greater than mine.   i;d recommend the stove to someone..      thanks for still having the forum will report back periodically,, with info     Thanks  D


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