# Overcoming Fear of... Hemlock, pine next...



## SuburbanFarmer (Mar 17, 2009)

After researching many old posts here, I am gong to stop ignoring hemlock trees as a source for firewood. (Here in S. NH the hemlock variety has two lines on the underside of the needles and small almost thimble-sized cones.) Largely ignored by most, maybe because it is easily mistaken for pine? (Standing at the base of a large one and looking to the next oak to fell, I only realized it was a hemlock when the oak got hung up in it!) Per the BTU charts, hemlock has less energy, but judging from the dead trunk branches that I gather for kindling, I'll bet well seasoned hemlock makes great fire-starting material. 

Folks in other areas of the country may find our ‘phobia’ of burning evergreens amusing. We often see stacks of cut pine logs just sitting in the woods visible from the road. Many have been quietly rotting for years… I myself have snickered at the guy with the sign on the ‘free wood’, thinking that he had to find a sucker to take it so he didn’t have to haul it to the landfill himself. 

Can anyone offer any advice regarding the aging of this wood or about gathering dead evergreens? Will it season any faster than oak?


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## Highbeam (Mar 17, 2009)

Yes, it will season faster than oak. If you cut and split it now, it will be ready for fall. Evergreens bleed pitch, not sap. Oh and if you find an evergreen with the whole base covered in white frosting looking stuff you've found fatwood.


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 17, 2009)

SuburbanFarmer said:
			
		

> After researching many old posts here, I am gong to stop ignoring hemlock trees as a source for firewood. (Here in S. NH the hemlock variety has two lines on the underside of the needles and small almost thimble-sized cones.) Largely ignored by most, maybe because it is easily mistaken for pine? (Standing at the base of a large one and looking to the next oak to fell, I only realized it was a hemlock when the oak got hung up in it!) Per the BTU charts, hemlock has less energy, but judging from the dead trunk branches that I gather for kindling, I'll bet well seasoned hemlock makes great fire-starting material.
> 
> Folks in other areas of the country may find our ‘phobia’ of burning evergreens amusing. We often see stacks of cut pine logs just sitting in the woods visible from the road. Many have been quietly rotting for years… I myself have snickered at the guy with the sign on the ‘free wood’, thinking that he had to find a sucker to take it so he didn’t have to haul it to the landfill himself.
> 
> Can anyone offer any advice regarding the aging of this wood or about gathering dead evergreens? Will it season any faster than oak?




Advice for gathering dead evergreens?  Just do it.  There's no tricks or special knowledge.

And yes, it will dry faster than oak.  Much faster.


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## Slow1 (Mar 17, 2009)

"Evergreends bleed pitch.." I have seen references to this before.  I too plan to gather softwoods this summer if things work out for me (I met a tree service guy who might drop some off free since 'nobody wants it'... )  When I split and stack them am I going to find that I have some sort of a big mess under the stacks this fall or is just something to be aware of?  I'm going to do it anyway, but just curious what to expect here (not like I'm stacking green wood in the house or anything....  but if it 'bleeds' I may well be careful about leaving a pile on the end of the driveway for any length of time right after getting it (I process my wood next to the driveway you see).


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## BandSawyer (Mar 17, 2009)

I burn some hemlock. Usually I make sawlogs out of the trees because of its value as lumber. Whatever does not get sawn goes into the woodstove.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 17, 2009)

Pretty soon you'll be picking up willow and poplar when it's free too!   


Matt


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## DaveBP (Mar 17, 2009)

Hemlock limbs are harder and denser than the wood of the trunk but the trunk is much easier to cut and split. Hemlock doesn't have pitch like a pine. The hemlock will dry faster than the oak. 

A pound of dry hemlock has as much heat in it as a pound of dry oak. Lot of hardwood snobs around here, but I say burn what you have. Everything burns better when it's dry. Wood that's not dry might burn longer if you can keep it going and stay out of the way of the smoke.

There, that ought to get some more opinions.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 17, 2009)

DaveBP said:
			
		

> .
> 
> A pound of dry hemlock has as much heat in it as a pound of dry oak. Lot of hardwood snobs around here, but I say burn what you have. Everything burns better when it's dry. Wood that's not dry might burn longer if you can keep it going and stay out of the way of the smoke.



Word.

Matt


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## myzamboni (Mar 18, 2009)

Slow1 said:
			
		

> "Evergreends bleed pitch.." I have seen references to this before.  I too plan to gather softwoods this summer if things work out for me (I met a tree service guy who might drop some off free since 'nobody wants it'... )  When I split and stack them am I going to find that I have some sort of a big mess under the stacks this fall or is just something to be aware of?  I'm going to do it anyway, but just curious what to expect here (not like I'm stacking green wood in the house or anything....  but if it 'bleeds' I may well be careful about leaving a pile on the end of the driveway for any length of time right after getting it (I process my wood next to the driveway you see).



It usually only oozes out onto the surface where is beads and hardens.  You might get a few drops here and there that might leave the wood.


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## madrone (Mar 18, 2009)

My favorite thing about free wood is that it burns.


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## mtroo (Mar 18, 2009)

The split/cut pine will not stain or harm your driveway.  But, I must confess I'm a little confused.  About all we have here in Montana is pine and it's all I've ever burned in my masonary fireplace.  I am considering a hearth mounted soapstone, but should I be concerned about pine?  Is the perceived problem the potential to overfire?  Or is it dirty?  I wish I had hard wood to burn as the pine seems to burn a little quicker than what I remember from my childhood in Michigan.


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## myzamboni (Mar 18, 2009)

mtroo said:
			
		

> The split/cut pine will not stain or harm your driveway.  But, I must confess I'm a little confused.  About all we have here in Montana is pine and it's all I've ever burned in my masonary fireplace.  I am considering a hearth mounted soapstone, but should I be concerned about pine?  Is the perceived problem the potential to overfire?  Or is it dirty?  I wish I had hard wood to burn as the pine seems to burn a little quicker than what I remember from my childhood in Michigan.



As long as you let it season you should not have a problem.  It does burn quicker than hardwood, but longer in a woodstove than in a masonry fireplace.


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 18, 2009)

madrone said:
			
		

> My favorite thing about free wood is that it burns.



MY favorite thing about free wood is that it's free.


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## Slow1 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> madrone said:
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I'm thinking that my favorite thing about pine is that around here folks look down their noses at it and generally don't want it... thus it falls into the "free" category.  I think I'm going to start loving it just as soon as I find a way to get hooked up with some sources and get a system in place to process it.  Ok, so I'll haul more into the house but it is lighter and it does smell good (or does the smell go away once it is well seasoned?)


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 18, 2009)

Slow1 said:
			
		

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You don't need a system - you need a truck, a saw, and a Fiskars splitting ax.


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## Highbeam (Mar 18, 2009)

The typical evergreen will start out with bleeding pretty thin sap which will thicken into a nasty tarry pitch and then finally harden into a crystal. That hardened pitch has been a great place to find fossils and such for those fossil diggers. Is it amber? The name of the "rock" that the pitch becomes?

I have had dry seasoned red cedar actually drip the pitch onto the floor in my house when I brought it in from the cold to be burned but the other evergreen tree's pitch seems to stay firm and not drip.


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## madrone (Mar 18, 2009)

I think the thing about any low BTU wood is assessing the cost/benefits. They tend to season faster, be easier to split, easier to light. OTOH, they burn faster, so you'll feed the stove more, and probably need a slightly bigger woodpile than with dense woods. Free wood is free wood, so if space is not an issue, why the heck not get all your heat for free. I have limited space in my yard, so I'm a little selective, but only a little. I'll take whatever I can get until I'm near capacity, then I tend to hold out for higher BTUs. But if I had twice the yard, I'd take anything.


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## lexybird (Mar 19, 2009)

it might be free and thats a nice perk but its still wood you gotta cut stac k split  season and restack it takes up space on the property  and youll have to feed the stove with it and becuase of its low btu rating youll be doing twice as much of all those chores for same heat of the quality hardwood


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## chachdave (Mar 19, 2009)

But its free wood lexybird.


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## Slow1 (Mar 19, 2009)

I imagine that the value of "free wood" is different for different folks.  If you have access to free hardwood (or free of $'s, "just" costing your labor) then perhaps the value of free softwoods may not seem worth the effort.  However, if you are looking at paying $150/cord for unsplit hardwood and you can get softwood for free in the same condition then that can be quite a difference.


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## North of 60 (Mar 19, 2009)

lexybird said:
			
		

> it might be free and thats a nice perk but its still wood you gotta cut stac k split  season and restack it takes up space on the property  and youll have to feed the stove with it and becuase of its low btu rating youll be doing twice as much of all those chores for same heat of the quality hardwood



 Lexy I think your gonna have to send me up some Oak so I only have to load my stove once every 24 hrs. :lol: 
 By the sounds of it your saying that my burn times would double. Then it would be worth it to order me up a load.


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## lexybird (Mar 19, 2009)

the burn charts based on density would show some oak being nearly double the density of hemlock ,heat wise probably not ,but pound for pound its close to double might be easier to just move down south if you want oak lol  around here we usually only load the stove with  one oak slab(maybe 2 if its really cold )  in the fall and then it is reduced to coals by march lol


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## lexybird (Mar 19, 2009)

chachdave said:
			
		

> But its free wood lexybird.


if your time your gas oil ,wear and tear and labor have no value, then yes its totally free


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## Bigg_Redd (Mar 19, 2009)

lexybird said:
			
		

> chachdave said:
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*sigh*


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## SuburbanFarmer (Mar 19, 2009)

lexybird said:
			
		

> chachdave said:
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I often think about what the pellet stove guy said when I asked about stove choices: "If you have free wood, then wood makes sense'..." I guess that's why New Englanders leave pine and take the oak. I've changed my thought process from thinking that 'the hemlock is just in the way' to get at the oak... Having it ready sooner and as a fire starter is a plus, also limbing and bucking the hemlock's straight trunks is faster. 

Not sure if this should be a new thread topic, but do you have any 'efficiency tips', to save time (and / or gas) when working in the woods? I discovered one by accident - I had a bunch of 4" mostly birch trees bunched together that I was skidding out when I got my tractor stuck. I had to leave the load, so I just 'sliced' all the trees into stove length on the spot. It was much like slicing stalks of asparagus with a chef's knife!

I pile the tops in strategic off-the-trail places with the thought that I will be able to ‘slice them up’ in a year or two for kindling. What ‘tricks of the trade’ have you learned to get the most cutting for your time / tank of gas?


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## FLINT (Mar 20, 2009)

I've burned hemlock.  yes, the limbs and knots are REALLY hard and because of the knots it splits really hard.  when you burn it, it POPS loudly - but the smoke smells really really good.  we never mind if a little hemlock smoke in the house.  

anyone in the midatlantic and southern mountains, should have plenty of hemlock to burn for quite a while as it is all dying now because of the invasive hemlock whooly adelgid.  its killing them fast here in VA.  very sad.


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## `RyaN` (Mar 21, 2009)

Flint same here in PA.  I just posted about the adelgid in another post.  As far as free wood.  I say if it will burn and it's not costing any cash out of your pocket why not burn it.  Different times of the year the softer woods are nicer because you don't need as long of a fire.  

As far as burning pine I think some misconception comes from the concern of increased creosote buildup.  I say burn it burn it hot and clean it properly should save any concerns with creosote buildup.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong :D


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## LLigetfa (Mar 21, 2009)

Hemlock sounds a lot like Balsam Fir, a tree I love to hate.  When I worked as a professional sawhand, I couldn't avoid them but now I just stay away from them.  I hate the sticky sap blisters, the tough-as-nails branches, the stink, and the snap/crackle/pop when it burns.  In my former home I had a neighbor that ran a sleigh ride business and he took all the Balsam that I so carefully avoided.  He liked it for the snap/crackle/pop ambiance on the open fire in his lodges but I would have worried about the guests burning down the place when the firecrackers would throw embers clear across the room.  I always worried that his drunken guests would wander onto my property and my dog would kill them.


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## billb3 (Mar 21, 2009)

I have mostly white pine here (for softwood) .
If I also didn't have white and red oak, cherry, and maple I'd consider buying a cord of harddwood for January/ February if I  had the money and it wasn't terribly expensive.

the native white pine here burns rather quick and hot, not terrriby good for long / overnite fires.

I've burnt just white pine, hemlock and some cedar, but it's more of a chore than oak.
I have some stubborn/frugal Yankee in me but not a lot.


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## skinnykid (Mar 21, 2009)

A buddy of mine dropped some huge Hemlock trees (about 7) in his yard last summer. Since he don't burn wood he offered them to me. Right now Hemlock is about 50% of the wood I have in my yard to split and stack. That % will go down as I come into more wood but needless to say, I have a bunch of Hemlock to burn next season. And the december ice storm made a mess of alot of Pines around here, I am taking the bigger stuff to burn also. Not alot but there will be a small mix of Pine in my stove next winter.


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## Dune (Mar 21, 2009)

Two adds in the local paper yesterday, free pine logs, you remove. I scored both of them, almost 3 cords of seasoned stove length free wood, and about 25% of my wood needs for the year in one day! If I didn't burn pine, I'd be none ahead right now.


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## Dune (Mar 21, 2009)

By the way, I burn pine in the winter too, but load only hardwoods just before bedtime.


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## Tree farmer (Mar 21, 2009)

I cut and burn what grows out back (hemlock, pine, red spruce, red maple and cherry) hemlock dries pretty fast once split same with pine.  I always try to mix it with hardwood but regardless it burns hot and fast.  Sugaring operators use pine slabs not only because they are generally free but burn really hot.  I used to snub the greens myself but not any more.  I do have a solid 8 cords of oak I'm working up now but that's my longevity wood.


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## jpl1nh (Mar 22, 2009)

I have lots and lots of both hemlock and pine.  Actually I have lots and lots of most everything that grows here in the northeast except hickory.  When it's freeze yer butt off cold, I burn mostly red oak and black locust with some yellow and black birch, beech, and sugar maple and ash thrown in..and a touch of hemlock, white, birch, red maple mixed in cause hardwood burns a bit better mixed unless your stove is really hot when you load.  This time of year I burn pine, hemlock, red maple, a little white birch, poplar and anything punky, with a touch of small pieces of black birch and red oak mixed in.  In between..I burn an in between mix.  It's all good!  You burn mostly hardwood when you need lots of heat and more soft wood when you need less.  I like free pine, there is all you could ever want out there cause no one seems to understand when to use it and why.  Plus everyone seems to think you get more creosote with it.  Why waste your good hardwood on the shoulder seasons?


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## skinnykid (Mar 22, 2009)

I don't really plan on using a certain species for certain temp changes. I just mix it all and burn slower when warm and higher when more heat output is needed.
Seems to me like stacking by species would be a pain. Then again, I only burnt for 1 year so far and pretty much ran out of wood.


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## jpl1nh (Mar 22, 2009)

skinnykid said:
			
		

> I don't really plan on using a certain species for certain temp changes. I just mix it all and burn slower when warm and higher when more heat output is needed.
> Seems to me like stacking by species would be a pain. Then again, I only burnt for 1 year so far and pretty much ran out of wood.


I agree, stacking by species would be a bit er..obsessive.  I mix it all too though the woodshed closest to the house is mostly my best cold weather hardwood.   But aside from that, I bring in wood nearly everyday and I'm picking from the mixed pile according to the upcoming weather though I do have somewhat of a spring and fall shoulder pile as well.


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## skinnykid (Mar 22, 2009)

as I pull wood from the wood closet I also try to plan ahead. Hardwoods for over night or soft to get er' going. If i am bummin around the house then I will burn the soft stuff first.


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## Slow1 (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm rather glad to hear these comments regarding just burning whatever wood (soft vs hard) is closest most of the time.  I was beginning to think this was going to become too complex.  I get the value of loading up on hardwood for overnight if you have it - clearly worth the 'bother' then, but during the rest of the time I am rather hoping to just burn whatever comes up.  With that said, for me it is still all wishful thinking... I still only have what I have bought and am still paying too much for it.  Still trying to get those leads out and hoping for that great score that others have hit   I'll take whatever wood comes my way that isn't rotten or bug infested until I have a year or two ahead, then perhaps I'll start getting picky.  Softwood seems to be my best bet (if indeed I were to have a choice) at the moment since at least it has a chance of being dry enough by fall so IF I get any it will be stacked closer to the house.


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## crazy_dan (Mar 22, 2009)

lexybird said:
			
		

> the burn charts based on density would show some oak being nearly double the density of hemlock ,heat wise probably not ,*but pound for pound its close to double *might be easier to just move down south if you want oak lol  around here we usually only load the stove with  one oak slab(maybe 2 if its really cold )  in the fall and then it is reduced to coals by march lol



All wood has roughly the same BTU per pound of wood not volume, and that does not take in to account water weight, yes the volume of hemlock to oak is almost 2X the weight should not be.

and if yall are only burning 1 stick of wood a year Idk why you would be so picky anyway, so you would have to burn 2 or even 3.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 23, 2009)

SuburbanFarmer said:
			
		

> After researching many old posts here, I am gong to stop ignoring hemlock trees as a source for firewood. (Here in S. NH the hemlock variety has two lines on the underside of the needles and small almost thimble-sized cones.) Largely ignored by most, maybe because it is easily mistaken for pine? (Standing at the base of a large one and looking to the next oak to fell, I only realized it was a hemlock when the oak got hung up in it!) Per the BTU charts, hemlock has less energy, but judging from the dead trunk branches that I gather for kindling, I'll bet well seasoned hemlock makes great fire-starting material.
> 
> Folks in other areas of the country may find our ‘phobia’ of burning evergreens amusing. We often see stacks of cut pine logs just sitting in the woods visible from the road. Many have been quietly rotting for years… I myself have snickered at the guy with the sign on the ‘free wood’, thinking that he had to find a sucker to take it so he didn’t have to haul it to the landfill himself.
> 
> Can anyone offer any advice regarding the aging of this wood or about gathering dead evergreens? Will it season any faster than oak?



If it grows, it can be burned is my own motto.

Like other folks I burn the wood according to the season and heating need . . . in other words, softwoods and/or softwood slabs makes for good Spring and Fall burns whereas the denser hardwoods makes for better dead of Winter burns. As you have mentioned the softwoods also are useful for kindling.

I don't think too many people mistake hemlock for pine however . . . unless we're both talking about different species. The hemlocks you are describing sounds the same as the ones I am familiar with (small needles, thimble sized cones), but the pines (Scotch, White, etc.) have much longer needles, larger cones and different needle configurations (rounder needle-like vs. short and flat).

As others have said, softwood needs to season properly to burn better . . . just like other hardwoods . . . but the general consensus is that they tend to season faster . . . and much faster than the very dense hardwoods such as oak.


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## stoveguy2esw (Mar 24, 2009)

biggest knock on softwoods and conifers in general is it tends to not last as long, this shouldnt be equated to lower BTU content per lb as stated earlier, but BTU per cubic unit of measurement is lower due to lighter weight per cubic unit these woods are less dense and release energy faster as they are consumed faster due to that same lack of density. as far as controlling the burn , isnt too hard , just monitor your startups and char stages remember they will char faster, understand that a less dense split will be consumed faster so its not going to be as long a cycle, and enjoy it when the "shoulder seasons" call for a lighter burn, like now when a nice half the night burn doesnt leave you sweating in the early morning hours. actually in a masonary heater like a russian fireplace or similar i'd think the shorter intense fires you run in them compared to the typical stove fire would work well with lighter wood, maybe not holding quite as long as dense wood get you, but still quite favorable, i'd think a mnasonary would show the lowest level of dropoff from dense wood to light

as for the "dangerous" aspects, when seasoned properly , any wood can be burned without loading the flue with creosote if the stove is operated properly, biggest thing is realizing that it is what it is,lighter less dense wood, dont try to get more out of it than it has to give. many chimney fires attributed to burning pine are mistakenly attributed to the high pitch count, in a way this is true, but thats not the real reason, folks try to get too long a burn out of this wood and damp back the stove too far especially with old non reburn units which cannot  clean that stuff up like the newer reburn type units can. this along with the very improper practice of loading green wood on the mistaken thought that "it burns hotter longer" have ruined a pretty large amount of flues over the years.

burn smart and accept what the wood can give you is far and away the best advice i can give.


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