# Total Creosote Blockage After 1-2 Fires



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 12, 2015)

First, thank you all for the great info already gathered!

Here's my situation.

We just moved into a rental home with a Vermont Castings Vigilant (early to mid-1980's), with a rear exit. Off the stove is a single wall, 8" oval male-90 degree (horizontal)- 8" round female pipe, connected to another 8" horizontal 90 degree pipe, connected to an 8" to 6" adapter, all going into a 6" T-section and straight up a 30-ish foot SS flexible liner. No insulation as far as I can tell except for the original 6"x6" terracotta liner. The chimney is centrally located in the home and extends about 6' above the roof peak. We have draft problems due to living at the bottom and downwind of a big ridge a 1/4 mile away. I know this stove should have an 8" liner. But the owners claim to have used it many years with well seasoned wood with no issues and sweeping the chimney twice a season. 

We bought supposedly 3-year seasoned wood from a reputable place (And I understand "seasoned wood" is not really seasoned). After 3 or 4 daylong fires, TOTAL CREOSOTE BLOCKAGE, primarily in the T-section and about 1-2 feet above it.

What I've done so far thinking it was a draft issue: Cleaned out the stove (a bucket full of creosote and ash caked inside all the rear chambers of the stove), Installed a Vacu-Draft cap, bricked up the clean out and installed an iron door (the owners used fiberglass insulation and loose bricks). Brought all the wood inside hoping to speed up the seasoning process.

Now have awesome draft. After 10 minutes using the top-down method, it sounds like a jet engine in there. But still after 1-2 fires, total blockage. 

What I'll be doing this weekend: Installing all double wall (thinking the flu is cold and the retained heat might help to move exhaust up) 8" oval to 6" round pipe (made for VC stoves), 2 x 6" 45 degree elbows (thinking 3 x 90 degree turns before the exhaust goes up is too many) (this will also do away with the 8"-6" reducer which may be choking the system right before the vital turn up into the liner), a new T-section as the existing one is mangled and doesn't mate well at the vertical and horizontal section, and a 6" x 48" SS liner pipe and cap to go down into the clean out in case there are any leaks in the brick/terracotta chimney. I'll also be building a proper wood shack to season a few cords for next year. 

My questions are: Could any one of these existing no-no's really cause a total blockage after 1-2 fires? And will any or all of my fixes help to remedy the problem until we can get a new stove meant for a 6" liner this summer when the money's there? I don't mind sweeping a few times a season, but after every fire is kind of ridiculous. I included a photo if my setup explanation doesn't make sense. 

Thank you in advance for any advice.


----------



## DougA (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm stumped on how it would be totally blocked that fast but my only thought would be a furry critter inside


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 12, 2015)

DougA said:


> I'm stumped on how it would be totally blocked that fast but my only thought would be a furry critter inside


I wish it were only that. I sweep it after every 2-3 fires. Unless the the critter can teleport in and out of the liner. I haven't thought of that ;-p


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 12, 2015)

While the setup may not be ideal, it isn't the main reason for the creosote problem. The only way you could get that much creosote in such a short period of time would have to involve extremely wet wood, and a choked out fire bellowing smoke constantly.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 12, 2015)

Ya that's absolutely crazy. Must be some of that ohio seasoned wood


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 12, 2015)

Some of my woods not the greatest. I've burned a cpl cords in my furnace.  Swept and cleaned stove pipe and chimney and only got about a quart.  That's a very alarming amount of creosote your getting.


----------



## fbelec (Dec 12, 2015)

what is your stove top temp?


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 12, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> While the setup may not be ideal, it isn't the main reason for the creosote problem. The only way you could get that much creosote in such a short period of time would have to involve extremely wet wood, and a choked out fire bellowing smoke constantly.


The wood probably isn't seasoned but I wouldn't call it wet. Sounds like a baseball bat when I bang them together. We do the top-down method, and once the embers are low enough to open the doors, reload it. It only smolders at night when we're not adding more wood. But the damper is left wide open.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 12, 2015)

fbelec said:


> what is your stove top temp?


I'm not sure of the stove or pipe temp. I will be getting thermometers. The stove gets hot enough to steam water on top. Heats the 17'x17' room to about 80 degrees.


----------



## Babaganoosh (Dec 12, 2015)

Get a moisture meter, an IR temp gun, and a thermometer for your stove pipe..then report back for duty.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 12, 2015)

Babaganoosh said:


> Get a moisture meter, an IR temp gun, and a thermometer for your stove pipe..then report back for duty.


I'll pick up the moisture meter tomorrow. I have a temp gun. After I install the new pipe and t-section, I'll fire it up and take a reading. Want temp am I looking for? 300-500 degrees? It's suppose to be in 50's tomorrow. Will that affect things? I did notice less spillage with temps below 40.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 12, 2015)

I can't imagine plugging a pipe that quickly even if trying to. Something is very wrong here, or more like more than one thing. The wood is surely wet, and technique is surely lacking. Somehow.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 12, 2015)

I think going from an 8" from stove to a 6" chimney is not good and I don't believe it's allowable by code. I think it's bottle necking your flue gasses


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 12, 2015)

Bholler had mentioned in another
Post regarding going from a 6" outlet to 5.5" liner causing some
To have to do multiple cleanings per season.  I have that setup and am lucky to only have to do a mid season cleaning.  I think your 8"to 6" plus multiple 90's wet wood and smoldering fires are creating a serious buildup


----------



## maple1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Also sounds like there could be cold air coming up to the T from the clean out.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 13, 2015)

Ok this is probably something I should've figured out ahead of time...How do I get the old liner out so I can install the new T-section? Pulling it up from the top seems impossible. Can it be pulled out through bottom? I'm a little terrified to let it drop as is it will go down into the chimney a good 4-5 feet before bottoming out into the clean out. Again, thanks in advance!


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 13, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> Ok this is probably something I should've figured out ahead of time...How do I get the old liner out so I can install the new T-section? Pulling it up from the top seems impossible. Can it be pulled out through bottom? I'm a little terrified to let it drop as is it will go down into the chimney a good 4-5 feet before bottoming out into the clean out. Again, thanks in advance!



Some liners use a pulling cone to get into the chimney, depending on how tight is the liner inside the chimney. Up and out is really your only option.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 13, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> Some liners use a pulling come to get into the chimney, depending on how tight is the liner inside the chimney. Up and out is really your only option.


It sits inside a 6" x 10" terra cotta liner, so there is some wiggle room. But it's quite heavy. If I use a pry bar under the support collar I can inch it up but there's no way to grab it and lift. It's 30' long. So how can I pull it up? Would lowering rope with a hook down the inside and trying to hook the bottom work?


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 13, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> It sits inside a 6" x 10" terra cotta liner, so there is some wiggle room. But it's quite heavy. If I use a pry bar under the support collar I can inch it up but there's no way to grab it and lift. It's 30' long. So how can I pull it up? Would lowering rope with a hook down the inside and trying to hook the bottom work?



@bholler will be much more help than me.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 14, 2015)

Wet wood AND a major leak in the piping somewhere letting cool air to get sucked into the flue cooling the flue gases.

Those black pipe elbows are the first suspect.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

Wow that's a fast creosote buildup.  I have black pipe outside my building and don't even see buildup like that, in fact after about 20 fires i've got nearly no buildup.  if you can, next time it literally blocks your flue, snap a photo of the interior of the pipe so we can see this buildup, that's very fast!


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> Wow that's a fast creosote buildup.  I have black pipe outside my building and don't even see buildup like that, in fact after about 20 fires i've got nearly no buildup.  if you can, next time it literally blocks your flue, snap a photo of the interior of the pipe so we can see this buildup, that's very fast!


This is kind of embarrassing, but this is after the first 3 fires of the season. They were all day fires and only allowed to burn to just embers while sleeping (damper fully open). By the 3rd fire I noticed a lot of smoke spillage. This is looking into the T section from the spout. In the 2nd picture you can see the stainless steal starting to shine through after a quick cleaning. Sometimes it's glossy like this, other times it looks like giant candle drippings (like someone poured tar down the chimney) and brown with powdery ashy coating.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 14, 2015)

Wow that's extremely bad stage 3 glazed creosote. That is a huge chimney fire waiting to happen. I wouldn't burn anymore until you've figured out wtf is going on


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

dang you weren't kidding man!  Unbelievable how that can happen so fast.  My black pipe outside doesn't even come close to that bad.  It's a single wall stove pipe that i've used for my chimney pipe, 2 sections high with a black tee and when its' freezing outside the outside of the pipe is really only warm to the touch.  I would think my setup would be clogging like that or else you have a completely different issue not related to flu temps.  I've been warned by people on here about the black pipe outside getting an over abundance of creosote build up, but at this point i have yet to see that.  MY plan is to simply clean or replace the outside black  pipe if andw hen it does show crazy amounds of creosote


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> My black pipe outside doesn't even come close to that bad. It's a single wall stove pipe that i've used for my chimney pipe, 2 sections high with a black tee and when its' freezing outside the outside of the pipe is really only warm to the touch.


That is a 100% illegal setup.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern.  I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it  has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time.  Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern.  I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it  has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time.  Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.


I'm curious as to what stove you're burning?


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

I am burning an nashua NfP, it's got a firebox and then a rear mounted blower that vents to the sides.  It is vented out the back of the stov so i have a 90 degree coming out and a 90 to go through the wall, then another 90 to shoot it straight up once it's outside.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 14, 2015)

I answered one of earlier questions about how to remove what I was told was a FLEXIBLE SS liner (it's rigid. I figured they used a flu extension for the top). After trying to secure a rope to the bottom with a 4x4 brace, only to have it snap and watch my liner fall to the basement clean out, I was left with only one option.

Now this may not be the most prudent or easiest way to remove a rigid liner, but it's certainly the most satisfying and enjoyable way. I grabbed my trusty sledge and opened up a little access hole in the basement above my clean out door. Gave a couple taps through the thimble from the blunt end of the sledge to make a crease. Went downstairs, a few taps to make another crease, and bit by bit, pulled this mother-expletive out!

SO MUCH FUN Here's some pics of the carnage. Is it me, or is there more creosote on the outside of my liner than most of you probably have on the inside???


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 14, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> I answered one of earlier questions about how to remove what I was told was a FLEXIBLE SS liner (it's rigid. I figured they used a flu extension for the top). After trying to secure a rope to the bottom with a 4x4 brace, only to have it snap and watch my liner fall to the basement clean out, I was left with only one option.
> 
> Now this may not be the most prudent or easiest way to remove a rigid liner, but it's certainly the most satisfying and enjoyable way. I grabbed my trusty sledge and opened up a little access hole in the basement above my clean out door. Gave a couple taps through the thimble from the blunt end of the sledge to make a crease. Went downstairs, a few taps to make another crease, and bit by bit, pulled this mother-expletive out!
> 
> SO MUCH FUN Here's some pics of the carnage. Is it me, or is there more creosote on the outside of my liner than most of you probably have on the inside???



That looks like just single wall stove pipe, not flex. I had tagged bholler hoping he would give you advice on how to remove the existing pipe as he does this sort of thing for a living. Looks like you got it out though, so what are your plans now?


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> I wasn't really asking anybody whether or not it was legal or insurable or anything, but I do appreciate your concern.  I was just describing my setup and explaining that, while it should gather creosote in theory....it  has not yet and nothing like what is shown in this thread on such short burn time.  Which is why i wanted to make mention since this looks like it's probably not from a cool flu since mine doesn't show anything of this caliber.



Most people come to this forum to learn how to safely use/install their heating device. He noted that your setup is illegal because it's a safety issue that should be addressed. This is not only for the sake of having insurance, but to keep the risk of you burning your home down to a minimum.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 14, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> That looks like just single wall stove pipe, not flex. I had tagged bholler hoping he would give you advice on how to remove the existing pipe as he does this sort of thing for a living. Looks like you got it out though, so what are your plans now?


I was hoping the same thing but I imagine he's pretty busy this time of year. The plan is to order up 30' of liner. Now do I get the regular flex stuff, the smooth wall flex, or rigid? It's a straight run with 7" x 11" terra cotta. The only narrow part I can see is where the clay thimble enters. A 6" liner with insulation wrap will be tight. 5" or 5.5" will be perfect. Planning on getting one them there EPA cert'd stoves this summer (or maybe as a Christmas present to myself). So what would be best for a nice long straight run?


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> Most people come to this forum to learn how to safely use/install their heating device. He noted that your setup is illegal because it's a safety issue that should be addressed. This is not only for the sake of having insurance, but to keep the risk of you burning your home down to a minimum.


absolutely, something i fully understand.  There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage.  I due diligence to keep and eye on things, if i do not see creosote issues i do not believe I am at risk.  It is new this year so I am keeping my eye on things.  This also doesn't make it right but i have country neighbors with the same style setup who have been burning for decades, they do replace their outside pipe as needed, however they've been doing it for a long time.  again, none of this makes it right, i just want to clarify the reason i postedin this thread was to explain that cool flu temps won't cause a buildup like that in only 1 or 2 burns, at least not in mjy experience.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> absolutely, something i fully understand.  There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage.  I due diligence to keep and eye on things, if i do not see creosote issues i do not believe I am at risk.  It is new this year so I am keeping my eye on things.  This also doesn't make it right but i have country neighbors with the same style setup who have been burning for decades, they do replace their outside pipe as needed, however they've been doing it for a long time.  again, none of this makes it right, i just want to clarify the reason i postedin this thread was to explain that cool flu temps won't cause a buildup like that in only 1 or 2 burns, at least not in mjy experience.


So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 14, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?



I would go with a flex myself, but I don't have enough experience in this field for my opinion to be considered reliable.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 14, 2015)

I would go with something a professional recommends for you to use.  I'm not a good example and if you're in a house you need to do it right.


----------



## bholler (Dec 14, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?


We typically only use flex now.  Rigid is a good liner but it is a pain to install and the fasteners in the joints can and do fail.  Pretty much all we use for wood now is heavy wall flex liner.  It is smooth inside and out and is as durable as rigid without all of the fasteners that can fail.   As far as pulling it out you are done now so it doesnt matter much but we use a hoist usually with pair of vise grips clamped on to the liner pull it up some and cut it off.  repeat that till you can pull it by hand.  I have also done it with a rope wrapped around the liner stand on the chimney and squat down and put the rope over your shoulder.  Then lift with your legs.  I have also had to do basically what you did as well as a last resort.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> So should I continue with rigid go with flexible?


Rigid does not mean regular interior black connector pipe! It means a stainless steel rigid liner. If it is inside the chimney as a liner it must be stainless steel whether it's flex or rigid. 

If you have a straight shot down the chimney with plenty of clearance I like stainless rigid. It is totally smooth on the inside and heavy duty. Some think it a bit harder to install but that is exaggerated if the run is large and not bends. What you need is a good pop rivet tool, stainless rivets and a method to hold the sections in place while you rivet the next section. That method could be a helper, a ratchet strap or a rope.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> absolutely, something i fully understand.  There's nothing to make an excuse about except that I am not in city limits and use this setup to heat a garage.


Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?


----------



## bholler (Dec 14, 2015)

begreen said:


> If you have a straight shot down the chimney with plenty of clearance I like stainless rigid. It is totally smooth on the inside and heavy duty. Some think it a bit harder to install but that is exaggerated if the run is large and not bends. What you need is a good pop rivet tool, stainless rivets and a method to hold the sections in place while you rivet the next section. That method could be a helper, a ratchet strap or a rope.


Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed.  Each type has their benifits and faults.  I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases.  But to each their own.  Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 14, 2015)

bholler said:


> We typically only use flex now.  Rigid is a good liner but it is a pain to install and the fasteners in the joints can and do fail.  Pretty much all we use for wood now is heavy wall flex liner.  It is smooth inside and out and is as durable as rigid without all of the fasteners that can fail.   As far as pulling it out you are done now so it doesnt matter much but we use a hoist usually with pair of vise grips clamped on to the liner pull it up some and cut it off.  repeat that till you can pull it by hand.  I have also done it with a rope wrapped around the liner stand on the chimney and squat down and put the rope over your shoulder.  Then lift with your legs.  I have also had to do basically what you did as well as a last resort.


why do you prefer the smooth over the corrugated. Just curious as I have the spiral corrugated. Id think the corrugated would be better, I find as it expands and contracts it knocks most the crap down to the bottom tee where I can vac it out.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2015)

Ben, were these coal stove flues? Stainless steel rivets are unlikely to fail. The problem is when folks don't use the right material and don't do the job properly. When I pulled our 8 yr old stainless liner it was like brand new, rivets and all.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 14, 2015)

begreen said:


> Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?


highly doubt theres any approval on anything on that with the way he's described his reasoning and install. Didn't know safety stopped at the city limits I'm in rural country and even the old timers around me have smartened up for thew most part on their methods.  Although my neighbour told me his dad used to clean the chimney by pulling the stove pipe showing a big wad of paper in the flue and lighting up the chimney ... absolutely nuts if you ask me.
His dad has since passed and im sure some of these methods have passed with this generation too. He couldnt even believe they way some things used to be done when he was a kid on the farm.


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

begreen said:


> Ben, were these coal stove flues? Stainless steel rivets are unlikely to fail. The problem is when folks don't use the right material and don't do the job properly. When I pulled our 8 yr old stainless liner it was like brand new, rivets and all.


Some of them yes and yeah after 8 years they should be ok but when i put a liner in i want ti to last 30 years.  Most rigid liners we work on over 15 years or so have atleast one loose joint.



jb6l6gc said:


> why do you prefer the smooth over the corrugated. Just curious as I have the spiral corrugated. Id think the corrugated would be better, I find as it expands and contracts it knocks most the crap down to the bottom tee where I can vac it out.


The smoother the walls the less turbulence there is which means better draft and less buildup.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 15, 2015)

bholler said:


> the smoother the walls the less turbulence there is which means better draft and less buildup.



when you put it like that makes total sense.


----------



## jb6l6gc (Dec 15, 2015)

in your professional opinion what are the normal life spans of stainless liners and class A chimneys. Or is it all subjective to how they are taken care of?


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

jb6l6gc said:


> in your professional opinion what are the normal life spans of stainless liners and class A chimneys. Or is it all subjective to how they are taken care of?


taken care on and good quality i would say 30 years


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

bholler said:


> Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed.  Each type has their benifits and faults.  I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases.  But to each their own.  Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.





bholler said:


> Like i said it is a good liner but having installed many of both flex is much easier and i have seen many rigid liners where the rivets failed.  Each type has their benifits and faults.  I just dont see that benifits faults out weight its faults in most cases.  But to each their own.  Just dont use that double layer smooth wall crap.


Bholler, when you say double layer smooth wall crap, are you referring to the pre-insulated stuff? I was actually looking at this http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Bulk-Chimney-Liner/6-Easy-Flex-Pre-Insulated-Chimney-Liner  just because of the ease and "neatness" of the insulation. But I don't mind the extra work if heavy wall flex is that much better. Thanks.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

gc said:


> highly doubt theres any approval on anything on that with the way he's described his reasoning and install. Didn't know safety stopped at the city limits I'm in rural country and even the old timers around me have smartened up for thew most part on their methods.  Although my neighbour told me his dad used to clean the chimney by pulling the stove pipe showing a big wad of paper in the flue and lighting up the chimney ... absolutely nuts if you ask me.
> His dad has since passed and im sure some of these methods have passed with this generation too. He couldnt even believe they way some things used to be done when he was a kid on the farm.



I am not claiming safety stops in the country, however there are many things you can do in the country that are illegal in town, burning brush piles, burning trash in burn barrels, taking down trees without a permit or insurance, etc, etc, etc.  I am also not trying to provide reason just wanted to give some input here, my apologies.



begreen said:


> Second safety strike with the stove in a garage. Does the insurance company approve this installation or the local fire marshal?



Since you asked, in my area it is not illegal to heat a garage with solid fuel, in fact I can think of several businesses with shops that are heated with wood as well.  One is a muffler shop of all things, the other is a body shop and there is also a power sports business that heats they're building with wood. 

Again, just to clarify i don't want to jumble up this thread with my install situation i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

*i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.*

That's fine - but by extrapolating your experience of a cold flu not making creosote, to rule out that is what is happening here, would then also extrapolate to mean it would not happen anywhere. I'm quite sure cold flues can make creosote, even though you're not seeing it.

Hope this thread plays all the way out to a resolution - there should be lots of learning potential for others if a cause & solution can be found.

EDIT: And to add a bit more input on that, I am feeling quite sure that the chimney is pulling air with less resistance from the bottom of itself (the cold cleanout area), than it is from the narrowed stove pipe section. Suspect the smoke from the stove is lazily travelling into the chimney T, where it is immediately being hit by a cold upward blast from the cleanout. Stack effect could even giving that a boost - but don't know much about the area the cleanout is in.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

maple1 said:


> * i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.*
> 
> That's fine - but by extrapolating your experience of a cold flu not making creosote, to rule out that is what is happening here, would then also extrapolate to mean it would not happen anywhere. I'm quite sure cold flues can make creosote, even though you're not seeing it.
> 
> Hope this thread plays all the way out to a resolution - there should be lots of learning potential for others if a cause & solution can be found.



I was not saying a cold flu does not make creosate, i was really just stating that after about 20 fires, mine does not build it that rapidly and certainly not that rapid after only 2 fires. just wanted to give him some input based on my experience, that would be a very fast creosote buildup if a cold flu is the reason.

I too would like to see what it learned in the end.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

rippinryno said:


> I was not saying a cold flu does not make creosate, i was really just stating that after about 20 fires, mine does not build it that rapidly and certainly not that rapid after only 2 fires. just wanted to give him some input based on my experience, that would be a very fast creosote buildup if a cold flu is the reason.
> 
> I too would like to see what it learned in the end.


 
What does yours have for a cleanout on the bottom?


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

a tee


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

Yes, but does it have a tight cap on it? That would be the difference, I suspect - if so, yours couldn't pull cold outside air into the bottom of the pipe. Which is what I think is happening here.


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 15, 2015)

it's got a cap on it yeah, how tight, i dunno, but yeah it's got the typical cleanout cap on the bottom.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

maple1 said:


> *i was really just wanting to give the OP some insight on creosote buildup due to a cold flu.*
> 
> That's fine - but by extrapolating your experience of a cold flu not making creosote, to rule out that is what is happening here, would then also extrapolate to mean it would not happen anywhere. I'm quite sure cold flues can make creosote, even though you're not seeing it.
> 
> ...


Basically there's the T with no cap, about 5' of empty chimney, then the clean out in the basement, but did brick it up and install an cast iron door. The basement can get cold, 45-50 degrees. Which is why I bought a new T and a 4' piece of SS rigid and a cap. Unfortunately I had to destroy the liner to get it out.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

How much room to spare do you have in the chimney?

Wonder if you could get an insulated 7" liner in it?

Sounds like you need a new liner now? If so that might be a blessing in disguise (although certainly also an unwanted expense) - you could maybe put a new one in that is smaller so matches your stove better.

I've never installed a liner before, so more experience should chime in. I wanted to say 6" insulated liner at first, but not sure if that would be going a tad too small if wanting to keep future options open as far as a stove swap or the like.

EDIT: Never mind most of that, I looked back & had my wires crossed about how big your pipe & stove outlet were. Sounds like you're on it looking at a 6" insulated liner already.


----------



## begreen (Dec 15, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> Basically there's the T with no cap, about 5' of empty chimney, then the clean out in the basement, but did brick it up and install an cast iron door. The basement can get cold, 45-50 degrees. Which is why I bought a new T and a 4' piece of SS rigid and a cap. Unfortunately I had to destroy the liner to get it out.


You want nothing cooling down the flue gasses. They will cool down enough just traveling up the liner to the cap.
Cold air was being sucked up into the flue. That instantly chilled the flue gases to the point of condensing into a tarry mess. To remedy you need to go for a complete liner and cap the bottom of the tee. To clean, remove the connector after sweeping and vacuum the tee with a shop vac. Or extend the bottom of the tee with more liner to just at the cleanout door height so that the bottom of the pipe can be tightly capped with a removable cap.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

begreen said:


> You want nothing cooling down the flue gasses. They will cool down enough just traveling up the liner to the cap.
> Cold air was being sucked up into the flue. That instantly chilled the flue gases to the point of condensing into a tarry mess. To remedy you need to go for a complete liner and cap the bottom of the tee. To clean, remove the connector after sweeping and vacuum the tee with a shop vac. Or extend the bottom of the tee with more liner to just at the cleanout door height so that the bottom of the pipe can be tightly capped with a removable cap.


If I put in an insulated liner, I'd have to go down to 5.5" as the terra cotta's inside diameter is 11"x7". Would the improved draft from the insulation negate the needed downsize? I should mention I plan to get a Jotul F500 Oslo in the near future. Would an insulated 5.5" liner work with that stove?


----------



## begreen (Dec 15, 2015)

bholler will say no, but I have seen 5.5 work fine with a 6" stove as long as there's enough height. Or consider installing a preinsulated 6" liner like DuraLiner. It's 6 5/8" OD.


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

begreen said:


> bholler will say no, but I have seen 5.5 work fine with a 6" stove as long as there's enough height. Or consider installing a preinsulated 6" liner like DuraLiner. It's 6 5/8" OD.


no it absolutly can work with enough height.


----------



## begreen (Dec 15, 2015)

See, I knew you would say no. J/K


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

I do generally prefer to break out and go with 6" because it leaves more options open in the future but I know 5.5 can work many stove makers give you a height at which you can downsize.


----------



## begreen (Dec 15, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> If I put in an insulated liner, I'd have to go down to 5.5" as the terra cotta's inside diameter is 11"x7". Would the improved draft from the insulation negate the needed downsize? I should mention I plan to get a Jotul F500 Oslo in the near future. Would an insulated 5.5" liner work with that stove?


How tall is the chimney?


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

begreen said:


> How tall is the chimney?


30' straight run.


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> 30'


You should be fine with 5.5 then.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 15, 2015)

30' is lots of chimney.

You might need a pipe damper once you get to that point. Point of insulated liner that is.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> 30'


Str


bholler said:


> You should be fine with 5.5 then.


Is the pre-insulated liner I linked above, the "crap" you were referring to?


----------



## bholler (Dec 15, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> Is the pre-insulated liner I linked above, the "crap" you were referring to?


no that is a totally different product.  What i am referring to is light wall smooth interior liner.  It is dont like a regular smooth wall with an inner layer of flat very thin metal.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 15, 2015)

Thank you all for the input. I'll order the liner tomorrow. I'll try it with the Vilgilant and post the results. If I get the same results, then we know it wasn't cold air getting in the flu or all the 90 degree bends, and must be the 8" to 6" reduction, wet wood and poor burning technique. And vice versa if it does work.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 17, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> That looks like just single wall stove pipe, not flex. I had tagged bholler hoping he would give you advice on how to remove the existing pipe as he does this sort of thing for a living. Looks like you got it out though, so what are your plans now?


It looks like stove pipe but it's actually SS. It must've been compromised somewhere something fierce. Hard to tell by the time I got it out. New liner is suppose to arrive Friday. I'll install it and fire her up Saturday and post results. Suppose to be a cold weekend :-/


----------



## English BoB (Dec 19, 2015)

I think you were screwed before you started, every thing was blocked so bad there is nothing you can do but replace, just because they said they did doesnt mean they did it correctly.

bob


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 19, 2015)

English BoB said:


> I think you were screwed before you started, every thing was blocked so bad there is nothing you can do but replace, just because they said they did doesnt mean they did it correctly.
> 
> bob


Bob I couldn't agree with you more!


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 19, 2015)

So the new liner is in! I stupidly went with 6" smooth wall flexible + 1/2" insulation. It kept getting hung up on clay mortar joints. So I ended up having to remove the insulation for the bottom half. There is an extension piece of rigid going down to the clean out with a cap on it. I added an 18" flu extender because I didn't like the furnace and stove flus being the same height. I may trim that down a bit if I see creosote build up there. Perhaps I should insulate that as well?

The first 2 pics show my ridiculous set up. I've found no other option for gradually reducing an 8" oval to a 6" round. So the added length makes it impossible to have the stove straight. I'll tell people the stove is straight, it's the house that was built crooked.

The 3rd pic is the the fire after 5 minutes. Very good draft.

The 4th pic is the fire after 10 minutes. The stove temp is 300 degrees. The draft is phenomenal. As I closed the door, the draft actually tried to pull the door closed. Mind you, we are having wind gusts of 20-30 mph coming from a ridge a 1/2 mile away.

After 30 minutes the temp is 550 degrees and the logs are all embers. Perhaps it ran a little too hot for too long. I'm about to reload, wait for it to catch and play with the built in damper. The Vigilant has just the 1 damper setting, open or closed. And the 2 adjustments on the rear and side (the last pic), I'll call the "flap" and the "hole". Does anyone have any advice on how to adjust the flap and hole for optimum burning?

Thank you


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 19, 2015)

The rear flap is thermostatically controlled by the coil up top. The flap should be shut when you get stovetop temps up around 600. I only used the side hole for getting the stove up to temp, otherwise I always let the rear flap do all of the air control.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 19, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> The rear flap is thermostatically controlled by the coil up top. The flap should be shut when you get stovetop temps up around 600. I only used the side hole for getting the stove up to temp, otherwise I always let the rear flap do all of the air control.


And how do you operate the damper?


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 19, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> And how do you operate the damper?



With my old Defiant I would bring the stovetop temp up to 550 - 600 (griddle temp), and close the damper. The flap in the back you'll have to adjust when the stove is up around those temps. It's an ancient design, but was rather effective for its time.


----------



## fbelec (Dec 20, 2015)

the round hole on the side is for when the damper is closed and you have a secondary fire. otherwise it is closed.. if you leave it open for the whole burn you will probably go thru more wood. once you fire the stove up to 600 to 700 degrees then close your damper with the side hole open. once you get the secondary going it turns into a whole different stove heat wise.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

This is the result after one day and night long fire. Stove top temps kept between 400-600 degrees. I never used the damper as I wanted to rule out other possible creosote causing problems first. I imagine it's normal to get some carbon build up, especially when burning only 4 month seasoned wood and in a stove that I've been told is a smoker.

Preliminary conclusions: Not having a cap at the bottom of the T-section was probably the biggest culprit, especially because the blockage would occur right there in and just above the T-section. And I definitely think having two 90 degree elbows and the abrupt 8" to 6" reducer was choking the system. I've never experienced draft like last night. Even with just a large bed of embers, if I cracked the door, the fire would roar up like an F-14 jet engine from Top Gun. 

I'm stoked with the results. Now I have to decide, do I extend the hearth to accommodate this giant adapter, or do I suck it up and upgrade to a newer stove?


----------



## rippinryno (Dec 20, 2015)

Looks good.  I'll agree with no cap you had to be sucking up cold air.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

keep an eye on that spot where the inner liner is distorted.  That is where i see those liners fail quickly and why i will never install one again.  I only did 2 and i have since replaced both at my cost.  I was installing a third when i saw a spot like the one in your liner and pulled it out then and ordered a different liner i was not putting a liner in like that.  Sorry for going on a bit i just really hate those liners.  Watch that spot it will get snagged by a brush when you clean


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> keep an eye on that spot where the inner liner is distorted.  That is where i see those liners fail quickly and why i will never install one again.  I only did 2 and i have since replaced both at my cost.  I was installing a third when i saw a spot like the one in your liner and pulled it out then and ordered a different liner i was not putting a liner in like that.  Sorry for going on a bit i just really hate those liners.  Watch that spot it will get snagged by a brush when you clean


Thank you. I'll do my best to push it back into place, but couldn't there be many more farther up liner? How long did they take to fail? It's suppose to have a lifetime warranty if inspected every year by a licensed sweep.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> keep an eye on that spot where the inner liner is distorted.  That is where i see those liners fail quickly and why i will never install one again.  I only did 2 and i have since replaced both at my cost.  I was installing a third when i saw a spot like the one in your liner and pulled it out then and ordered a different liner i was not putting a liner in like that.  Sorry for going on a bit i just really hate those liners.  Watch that spot it will get snagged by a brush when you clean


So did I get that "crap" liner you said not to get?


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

That's the one. Two ply "smooth wall". I pulled mine after one season and replaced it.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> That's the one. Two ply "smooth wall". I pulled mine after one season and replaced it.


Son of a biscuit! Anyone have any luck replacing it under warranty? It's the smooth wall 316 from an online supplier with lots of diy videos and begins with an r.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> keep an eye on that spot where the inner liner is distorted.  That is where i see those liners fail quickly and why i will never install one again.  I only did 2 and i have since replaced both at my cost.  I was installing a third when i saw a spot like the one in your liner and pulled it out then and ordered a different liner i was not putting a liner in like that.  Sorry for going on a bit i just really hate those liners.  Watch that spot it will get snagged by a brush when you clean


Any chance you'd be able to tell me the brand of the heavy smooth wall that you use. I actually chose this at a higher cost because of a previously mentioned post suggesting smooth wall.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> Any chance you'd be able to tell me the brand of the heavy smooth wall that you use. I actually chose this at a higher cost because of a previously mentioned post suggesting smooth wall.


we use olympia.  either armor flex which is the heaviest or hybrid.  they are constructed completly different from what you have


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> we use olympia.  either armor flex which is the heaviest or hybrid.  they are constructed completly different from what you have


And of course they're only 2 hours away from me. But you can only buy from them if you have a business.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> And of course they're only 2 hours away from me. But you can only buy from them if you have a business.


yeah where are you at?  we are about 2 hours from them also


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> yeah where are you at?  we are about 2 hours from them also


Opposite of you I'm bettin. Perkasie. Near Quakertown. If you haven't heard of that, about 45 minutes south of Allentown.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah we are pretty much dead center of the state


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> Yeah we are pretty much dead center of the state


Like State College, Lockhaven? How do I get me some of this sweet Olympia liner when mine fails in a year lol. Shaking my head frustration.


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 20, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> Son of a biscuit! Anyone have any luck replacing it under warranty? It's the smooth wall 316 from an online supplier with lots of diy videos and begins with an r.



I'm curious - Where did you get your liner ?


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> I'm curious - Where did you get your liner ?


I'd rather not trash talk as mine hasn't failed yet. But if you search YouTube for chimney liner installation, there will be a few from a chimney supplier that come up. Begins with an "R". Although I think if there is bad product (known to fail) out there, then the folks on this forum absolutely should be made aware. But that leads the forum open to rival companies hijacking threads to trash other products and promote their own. I'm not sure if that happens here but if definitely happens on other forums. Perhaps a thread titled, " Flexible Liner Review", would be a more appropriate place to discuss this?


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 20, 2015)

Whiskey Fun said:


> I'd rather not trash talk as mine hasn't failed yet. But if you search YouTube for chimney liner installation, there will be a few from a chimney supplier that come up. Begins with an "R". Although I think if there is bad product (known to fail) out there, then the folks on this forum absolutely should be made aware. But that leads the forum open to rival companies hijacking threads to trash other products and promote their own. I'm not sure if that happens here but if definitely happens on other forums. Perhaps a thread titled, " Flexible Liner Review", would be a more appropriate place to discuss this?



As yours hasn't failed it wouldn't be considered bad mouthing the company. I was just curious, that's all. I got mine from Chimneylinerdepot.com and it seems good so far. This is only my second season with it.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

There are many manufacturers that make that type of liner.  In my opinion it is just a poorly designed product.  It can last ok but it is very delicate and extremely easy to damage during installation.  and once that inner liner is damaged it does shorten the life of the product.  And no it will not be covered by warantee because it was damaged during installation.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

claydogg84 said:


> As yours hasn't failed it wouldn't be considered bad mouthing the company. I was just curious, that's all. I got mine from Chimneylinerdepot.com and it seems good so far. This is only my second season with it.


True. I'm not trash talking yet. Rockford's smooth wall. I'm confused about how an inner coil could protrude in like that as a result of installation. It's all interior. On a side note, the Steelers beat Denver Now let's go Birds E.A.G.L.E.S. Eagles


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

That interior strip is only attached on one edge of the strip. Most of the time the distortions occur when it is uncoiled.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> That interior strip is only attached on one edge of the strip. Most of the time the distortions occur when it is uncoiled.


Again, I don't see how that would fall under improper installation as it must be uncoiled before installing. Especially considering this company obviously advertises to diy-ers, presumably, because of all their how-to videos.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

Don't know anybody here that can speak for Rockford. Need to talk to them.

I installed mine in 2006 and pulled it and threw it off the roof into the woods, where it still lays except six feet I cut off a few years ago to use on the meat smoker, in 2007 and replaced it with single wall.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Don't know anybody here that can speak for Rockford. Need to talk to them.
> 
> I installed mine in 2006 and pulled it and threw it off the roof into the woods, where it still lays except six feet I cut off a few years ago to use on the meat smoker, in 2007 and replaced it with single wall.


Damn. Will it at least last me a year? Money saved on oil will at least be worth it.


----------



## claydogg84 (Dec 20, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> That interior strip is only attached on one edge of the strip. Most of the time the distortions occur when it is uncoiled.



Should this be a concern of mine as well? I bought whatever the best liner was available from chimney liner depot. I believe it was advertised as double wall?


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah. It might last a long time. The outer layer is just like a 316ti single wall liner. I just didn't want the thing clogging up those puckers with creosote and wrecking draft and was getting close to the age that I wouldn't be able to work up on the roof installing liners anymore so I just went ahead and got it over with.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

Keep an eye on them just like any liner.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm wondering if a thread about liner reviews from different suppliers or manufacturers should be started? Might be 10 years in the making but could prove to be valuable to a lot of people down the road.


----------



## bholler (Dec 20, 2015)

It is not a fault of the specific manufacturer.  It is a fault in that type of liner.  I prefer heavy wall or mid weight liners but would go with regular light wall any day over that double wall stuff.   As long as you are buying from a reputable manufacturer it just comes down to liner type.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 20, 2015)

bholler said:


> It is not a fault of the specific manufacturer.  It is a fault in that type of liner.  I prefer heavy wall or mid weight liners but would go with regular light wall any day over that double wall stuff.   As long as you are buying from a reputable manufacturer it just comes down to liner type.


Ok. So for all future searches on what kind of flexible liner to buy, HEAVY WALL IS THE BEST! I didn't add the mid weight because the ones I researched either say heavy wall, or whatever their commercial name is for their lighter weight liner, which could be the crap that I bought, or the medium weight you're suggesting. And the only way to know, I assume, is if you've bought and installed a few of each. I hope this just helps others in the future. If I have any problems with mine I'll be sure to post them here.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 20, 2015)

The key if you want it is "two ply smooth wall". That is the crap. Me and bholler have been posting about that for a long time.

Another irritating thing about that stuff is that nobody tells you that the right way to install it is with the bonded edges down.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 21, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> The key if you want it is "two ply smooth wall". That is the crap. Me and bholler have been posting about that for a long time.
> 
> Another irritating thing about that stuff is that nobody tells you that the right way to install it is with the bonded edges down.


Actually there were arrows painted up and down the liner delineating which end was up. Is it possible they instructed me to install it upside down?


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 21, 2015)

Looks like it is installed correctly to me if that shot is from the top down. Don't worry about it. Just inspect it when you do cleanings. If nothing gets worse, don't worry about it.


----------



## bholler (Dec 21, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Another irritating thing about that stuff is that nobody tells you that the right way to install it is with the bonded edges down


no the loose edge should be down otherwise anything running down the liner would get directed between the layers.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 21, 2015)

And if they are down its flow efficiency brag goes out the window.


----------



## bholler (Dec 21, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> And if they are down its flow efficiency brag goes out the window.


not if they are laying flat like they are supposed to.  The loose edges go down.  Just like with rigid liner stove pipe and heavy wall the seam always points down on the inside.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Dec 21, 2015)

Ya that shot is from the bottom. Those loose edges are actually sitting inside the top of the t section. I've tried pushing them back in but as metal bends, it stretches so it won't be perfect. Is it worth pulling out and sawing that bit off? Or will it hold up since it's inside the t?


----------



## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

If it's in the tee it could be ok.


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Jan 15, 2016)

bholler said:


> There are many manufacturers that make that type of liner.  In my opinion it is just a poorly designed product.  It can last ok but it is very delicate and extremely easy to damage during installation.  and once that inner liner is damaged it does shorten the life of the product.  And no it will not be covered by warantee because it was damaged during installation.



Bholler,
    Can you explain more about how this shortens the life of the liner?
   Thanks


----------



## bholler (Jan 15, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> Can you explain more about how this shortens the life of the liner?


Well besides the fact that once that inner layer is not longer in place you only have half of the intended thickness.  That flap hanging out creates an area of turbulence which creates a hot spot putting extra stress on the area that is already damaged.  And if you have a chimney fire that spot really traps heat and is likely to burn through.  As well once the liner is puckered a little bit it gets worse quickly due to cleanings


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Jan 15, 2016)

bholler said:


> Well besides the fact that once that inner layer is not longer in place you only have half of the intended thickness.  That flap hanging out creates an area of turbulence which creates a hot spot putting extra stress on the area that is already damaged.  And if you have a chimney fire that spot really traps heat and is likely to burn through.  As well once the liner is puckered a little bit it gets worse quickly due to cleanings



Would there be reason to think that the flap would increase the chance of chimney fire?


----------



## bholler (Jan 15, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> Would there be reason to think that the flap would increase the chance of chimney fire?


Not really.  The turbulence could increase the creosote buildup in that area slightly but i doubt it would be enough to make any real difference.


----------



## Whiskey Fun (Jan 17, 2016)

Just an update on the total creosote blockage. Since replacing the liner, the T body and adding a piece of rigid SS liner with a cap below the T body terminating in my basement clean out, I've not experienced any creosote build up. I slowly replaced everything back to the original set up, starting with 6" double wall pipe with only one 90 elbow and a gradual 8" oval to 6" round (which left the stove facing sideways), and one by one put back the original 8" single wall with two 90's and the ubrupt 8" round to 6". Still no noticeable build and ridiculous draft. Burned through a 1/2 cord steadily and swept it, yielding about a 1/3 cup or less of fine powder.
So can we conclude this total blockage was a direct result of cold air coming up from the open T body? Perhaps worsened but not directly caused by slightly subpar wood at 23-25% moisture, less than optimal stovetop temps, and bad burning technique trying to get an overnight smolder?


----------



## fbelec (Jan 18, 2016)

great job


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Jan 31, 2016)

bholler said:


> Not really.  The turbulence could increase the creosote buildup in that area slightly but i doubt it would be enough to make any real difference.





bholler said:


> Well besides the fact that once that inner layer is not longer in place you only have half of the intended thickness.  That flap hanging out creates an area of turbulence which creates a hot spot putting extra stress on the area that is already damaged.  And if you have a chimney fire that spot really traps heat and is likely to burn through.  As well once the liner is puckered a little bit it gets worse quickly due to cleanings




In the absence of a chimney fire, would this "hot spot" burn through during normal stove operation?


----------



## bholler (Jan 31, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> In the absence of a chimney fire, would this "hot spot" burn through during normal stove operation?


eventually yes


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Feb 1, 2016)

bholler said:


> eventually yes



would you figure this would likely take a good number of years to occur under normal operation? Thanks for your responses, by the way.


----------



## bholler (Feb 1, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> would you figure this would likely take a good number of years to occur under normal operation? Thanks for your responses, by the way.


There are way to many variables for me to give any sort of estimate on the time frame


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Feb 2, 2016)

bholler said:


> eventually yes



Have you seen these liners burned through in the absence of a chimney fire in the field while doing cleanings, inspections, etc?


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Feb 2, 2016)

bholler said:


> eventually yes



Have you seen these liners burn through at these hot spots in the absence of a chimney fire in the field while doing cleanings, inspections, etc?


----------



## bholler (Feb 2, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> Have you seen these liners burn through at these hot spots in the absence of a chimney fire in the field while doing cleanings, inspections, etc?


Well i have seen ones burnt through with no evidence of a chimney fire.  I cant say if there was one or not just that i didn't see evidence of one.  And the customer did not know of one.  But i see evidence of chimney fires lots of times when the customer had no idea


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Feb 2, 2016)

bholler said:


> Well i have seen ones burnt through with no evidence of a chimney fire.  I cant say if there was one or not just that i didn't see evidence of one.  And the customer did not know of one.  But i see evidence of chimney fires lots of times when the customer had no idea



Would you guess there a chimney fire would leave some sort of evidence?


----------



## bholler (Feb 2, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> Would you guess there a chimney fire would leave some sort of evidence?


Yes it would leave evidence when it happened but that may have been a year or more before i was there so i have no way of knowing.  All i can say is that i saw no evidence of a chimney fire.  There is no way for me to know for sure whether they did or not.  Why are you asking?


----------



## Ctwoodtick (Feb 2, 2016)

bholler said:


> Yes it would leave evidence when it happened but that may have been a year or more before i was there so i have no way of knowing.  All i can say is that i saw no evidence of a chimney fire.  There is no way for me to know for sure whether they did or not.  Why are you asking?






bholler said:


> Yes it would leave evidence when it happened but that may have been a year or more before i was there so i have no way of knowing.  All i can say is that i saw no evidence of a chimney fire.  There is no way for me to know for sure whether they did or not.  Why are you asking?



I'm probably just being a worry wort and that probably explains all my questions. I have no reason to think my liner is in bad shape-can't see any problems with 2 ply liner seperating or anything. I love being on this site, but find I can freak myself out...for no good reason.. Thanks again


----------



## bholler (Feb 2, 2016)

Ctwoodtick said:


> I'm probably just being a worry wort and that probably explains all my questions. I have no reason to think my liner is in bad shape-can't see any problems with 2 ply liner seperating or anything. I love being on this site, but find I can freak myself out...for no good reason.. Thanks again


Yeah just keep an eye on it and if you are worried have it scanned with a camera every few years.


----------

