# Crack in chimney liner - repair estimate & options?



## Cinnaman (Jan 13, 2007)

I just had my chimney swept and I was told it's not safe to use because of a crack in the terra cotta liner. A crack runs through the 2nd tile (from the bottom) and into the 3rd tile. I saw the crack myself and I don't doubt that it's not safe to use in that condition. The sweep said we probably had a chimney fire at some point. We bought the house 2 1/2 years ago so it could have happened before we moved in.

Now the repair suggestion & estimate:

10" stainless steel liner, including cap, crown top plate, and theramix insulation $1,950
Reseal smoke chamber with smoke tite (ceramic based refractory cement) $525

If needed, a custom fit locktop damper. I had one installed 2 years ago because of rain, downdrafts, and smell when I wasn't using the fireplace but it won't fit the new stainless steel top. The sweep said we could try the regular cap that comes with the stainless steel liner. If we still get the downdrafts and smell it would be another $450 for the custom top.

So: Minimum $2,475 ($1950+$525) to have another fire, maybe $2,925 with the custom locktop damper.

Does this seem like the right repair at a reasonable cost?

I asked about the relining with the rubber tube and poured cement (I don't know what it's called) and the sweep said it was very expensive ~$8,000 and they tend to crack if they're not installed just right. I think his $8,000 estimate is way out of line for a 2 story chimney, but he doesn't install them so I guess he wouldn't suggest it at a reasonable price either.

The chimney sweep is actually a construction company that does sweeping as a side job. He is a certified chimney sweep and sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

To complicate things, I was thinking about inserts and stoves too. Getting the chimney lined with my open fireplace would mean I couldn't get a stove or insert later without relining the chimney again. I don't think I want to add another $2,000 for a stove or insert to the $2,000 problem I already have though.

This sucks. Just when it is finally starting to get cold.

I'd appreciate any opinions out there. I know there are a lot of stove/insert users out there, but I really don't think I'm ready for that expense now.

Thanks,

Dave


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## webbie (Jan 13, 2007)

First of all, let me state that virtually ALL tile linings of any age have cracks in them. A lot of them have cracks in the masonry yard before they are even installed! That is another rant altogether - being that tile liners as now produced are a poor product which is not fit for the job at hand.  

Here are my first comments:
If you get a stove or insert - which can cost from $300 (used or closeout at Lowes, etc.) to $2000+, then you will not need the smoke chamber work done and also you will be able to use a 6" liner. These two together should save at least $1000 or more.

The poured linings are expensive and I have not checked the price lately, but I do assume $5K+ - They may even have to remove your flue tiles to do it correctly.

Remember that a stove inserts also removes the need for a top damper.

All thing being equal, you might be able to get a stove or insert and a liner for the same price as the fireplace relining you currently quote


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## Cinnaman (Jan 13, 2007)

What would an average insert or stove cost, fully installed, and fixing any problems from above that needed to be fixed for an insert or stove?

Also, I've attached a picture of my fireplace. It's just an average looking fireplace with a raised hearth about 12" high.

Would a stove look weird in this setup? 

Thanks,

Dave


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## BrotherBart (Jan 13, 2007)

A little way either side of 2,000 for an insert and 1,500 of so to have the chimney lined with a stainless steel liner.

The right free standing stove would look great in that fireplace. But you are going to have clearance issues with either an insert or a stove with that mantel.


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## nshif (Jan 13, 2007)

A few questions....
1) Are you going to try to heat the house with this or is it more for looks and supplimental heat on occasion?
2) Is the existing all masonry or is there a metal box inside the fireplace?
 I agree with Craig that you ought to be able to do a stove or insert for about the same amount total and forget the repair. Just run a 6" flue all the way up.
A stove might be a bit tough gettin clearances to combustibles but an insert shouldnt be a problem and would look just fine. Better in my opinion


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## Cinnaman (Jan 13, 2007)

I don't use the current fireplace for heat, just looks. I know it's a big heat loss. 

I just thought that since I have to spend at least $2400 to have a fire again I should look into more efficient solutions.

I can have an insert and liner installed for the same $2400? Will I gain some heat with an insert?  I'm assuming there aren't any greater clearance issues with an insert than with the current fireplace.

I always thought a stove had to be on floor level to look good, not sitting on top of my 12" hearth. What are the minimum clearances for a stove?


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## Cinnaman (Jan 13, 2007)

Oh, the existing is all masonry.....no metal box.


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## nshif (Jan 13, 2007)

Each stove or insert has its own set of clearances ( sides. back, bottom, top, flue. ) 
Yes you could gain a great deal of heat with either over the fire place and in the long run reduce your heating costs perhaps offsetting some of the initial cost. Alot of that would depend on the layout of your house, Insulation etc.
The mantle may be a clearance issue as was stated. 
Many people put stoves on raised hearths. 
Spend some time reading through past posts and look through the picture section. See what local dealers carry in your area and look at the manufs web sites and through the review section for those stoves for some insight.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 14, 2007)

i dunno, some inserts woud cause clearance issues ,maybe not all, depends on how much hearth is in front of the fireplace opening also, didnt the guy who MSG helped ou (mike) have a "flush mount" insert? ,first step will be getting good measurements so that you will be able to shop for one that will fit your footprint. looking at the picture of the fireplace its hard to get a feel for the scale. i agree with craig that an insert or freestanding unit would be a better investment. maybe post your measurements and we can crunch some numbers to see what can fit that footprint


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## Gooserider (Jan 14, 2007)

I think a flush mount insert would look better in that space than a stove, and probably cause fewer issues other ways.  As stated elsewhere, each insert has it's own clearance requirements, but so do stoves.

I think just about any sort of stove would require you to significantly enlarge that hearth in order to get clearances on the floor, an insert that was close to flush with the firebox probably would work with the existing hearth, or require only a minimal depth increase.

The other big issue, as mentioned is the mantel - again, it depends on the insert, but you might be able to get away with the existing setup (it looks like you have about 12" from the mantel to the current top edge of the stove going by the brick count) or you might be able to install a metal heat shield under the mantel that would solve the problem.

I don't know the specs that well, but some of the other folks here are in the business of selling this stuff, so they can help make reccomendations as to what brands / models might work for you.

We would need (at least) the following numbers - Height, Width and Depth of the firebox (without the doors).  If the firebox goes straight back, or if it is tapered in on the sides.  Width and depth of the hearth.  Distance from the bottom edge of the mantel to the top of the fire box.  Distance the mantel sticks out over the firebox, and how far that point is to the top of the firebox (Mantel clearances are a function of both how far they stick out and how deep they are)

I do agree with the others on the list that you could easily end up with an insert and 6" liner for less than the repair your sweep is quoting, or possibly spend a small amount more if you wanted a fancier insert.  Inserts are also far more effective as heating appliances than a conventional fireplace, they are essentially woodstoves that have been designed to fit into a fireplace....

Gooserider


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## berlin (Jan 14, 2007)

are you kidding me, a few cracks in the liner in an open fireplace, and he suggests a reline???
There is NO need to reline. use it, enjoy it, burn hot, and have regular chimney cleanings. reline, what a bunch of nonsense.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 14, 2007)

berlin said:
			
		

> are you kidding me, a few cracks in the liner in an open fireplace, and he suggests a reline???
> There is NO need to reline. use it, enjoy it, burn hot, and have regular chimney cleanings. reline, what a bunch of nonsense.



Without knowing/seeing the severity of those cracks. That response is just plain reckless!
I suggest ignoring this advice! It isn't his house that could possibly burn down or worse if a chimney fire etc. occurs.
At least get one or two more second opinions from other competent chimney sweeps or pros.


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