# New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander



## FixedGearFlyer

It's new furnace day! Our Drolet Heat Commander was just dropped in the driveway by our freight service amd will be slipped into the basement to replace our Tundra I this afternoon. 

I have no objective feedback, yet, other than saying that it looks very well built and many of the weak points of the Tundra are clearly addressed with more radiused corners, additional welds, additional firebrick, etc. 

Also, a big kudos to Drolet for including both a thermostat and a moisture meter!

The install will happen over the weekend and I'll look forward to reporting the first proper burn.


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## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> It's new furnace day! Our Drolet Heat Commander was just dropped in the driveway by our freight service amd will be slipped into the basement to replace our Tundra I this afternoon.
> 
> I have no objective feedback, yet, other than saying that it looks very well built and many of the weak points of the Tundra are clearly addressed with more radiused corners, additional welds, additional firebrick, etc.
> 
> Also, a big kudos to Drolet for including both a thermostat and a moisture meter!
> 
> The install will happen over the weekend and I'll look forward to reporting the first proper burn.


I received mine on Monday. It appears to be heavier than my Tundra!

Eric


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## FixedGearFlyer

Soooo heavy!

And, the two lifting eyes on the Tundra look a lot more stout than the one on the Heat Commander. I'll be picking it up by the lifting point with a front end loader in about an hour, so it will get a workout...


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## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Soooo heavy!
> 
> And, the two lifting eyes on the Tundra look a lot more stout than the one on the Heat Commander. I'll be picking it up by the lifting point with a front end loader in about an hour, so it will get a workout...



Do you plan on having a couple fires before installing in the house to burn off the oils and paint?

Eric


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## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> Do you plan on having a couple fires before installing in the house to burn off the oils and paint?
> 
> Eric



I should, but, no. I'll just open the windows and Bilco door in the basement and smoke it off inside before I connect the ductwork. 

Because it has the plenum thermocouple to control the blower and the fire box thermocouples control the primary and secondary air without any manual adjustment, I don't want to light it off until the plenum is on and it has proper draft.

Probably being paranoid, but I don't want to put another 600+ pound furnace in my basement again for at least a decade...


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## andym

We are all on the edge of our seats! If it is better than my Heatmax 2 it should be a dandy!


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## FixedGearFlyer

The two little welds on the lifting hook held and she's safe and sound in the basement. It's going to take some work to shift from the dual 8-inch supply trunks to the plenum with 6-inch ducts, so I'm afraid the next update will take a while - hopefully sometime this weekend.


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## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> The two little welds on the lifting hook held and she's safe and sound in the basement. It's going to take some work to shift from the dual 8-inch supply trunks to the plenum with 6-inch ducts, so I'm afraid the next update will take a while - hopefully sometime this weekend.


Breaking mine in tonight in the driveway. Slow speed fan so far, nice and quiet!

Eric


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## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> Breaking mine in tonight in the driveway. Slow speed fan so far, nice and quiet!
> 
> Eric



Beautiful!

I think we have an equally perfect night over here in Marquette. Stars are out, dead calm, mid-September temps. 

We just took a sauna (wood fired, 200*F or don't even bother 'cause we're Yoopers...) and I think we'll strike up a bonfire.


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## brenndatomu

So are you guys both beta testing for SBI, or straight up out of pocket purchase?


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## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> So are you guys both beta testing for SBI, or straight up out of pocket purchase?



I paid for mine at a discounted price, in exchange for my feedback. 

I'm pretty excited for this thing but install is going to be tricky. Like @FixedGearFlyer , I have dual 8" into my gas furnace main trunk that I'll need to modify for at least six 6" ducts with anti-backdraft dampers. 

I'm trying to figure out how to adapt my current dual 8" to the new Heat Commander. 

Eric


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to adapt my current dual 8" to the new Heat Commander


Might be easiest to hook the plenum straight into the supply duct like a normal furnace, skip the 6" pipes? If they will allow that...


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## laynes69

I'll be curious to see how they work out!


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## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> I'll be curious to see how they work out!


X2


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I received mine on Monday. It appears to be heavier than my Tundra!
> 
> Eric


The first thing that jumps out at me in that pic from the rear is that the controls box looks to be right where creosote will drip on it from the chimney connector...seems like every Tundra I have ever seen has a black stain on the top of the blower box from that...first fire of the year (at least) always seems to drip a bit...hopefully things are sealed up well enough that any creo juice drip doesn't cause problems. If not, looks like a good place for a metal splash shield?


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## sloeffle

How do I become part of the cool kids club ?


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## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> How do I become part of the cool kids club ?


Pay the $2599 membership fee...  








						HEAT COMMANDER WOOD FURNACE
					

Among the most efficient systems on the market based on distributed energy, the Heat Commander is a central heating system that is both cutting edge and accessible thanks to its innovative design and ease of use. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity




					myfireplaceproducts.com


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## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> The first thing that jumps out at me in that pic from the rear is that the controls box looks to be right where creosote will drip on it from the chimney connector...seems like every Tundra I have ever seen has a black stain on the top of the blower box from that...first fire of the year (at least) always seems to drip a bit...hopefully things are sealed up well enough that any creo juice drip doesn't cause problems. If not, looks like a good place for a metal splash shield?



My T1 had the creo-juice drip only the first couple times that I used it, however, since then it has never been a problem. I sealed my pipe joints up pretty well using  rope gasket. After firing up the Heat Commander last night using kiln dried pallet softwood, it caused a large 3"-4" diameter puddle as well. I put a large paper towel over the puddle to minimize the mess.

A couple other items I noticed:
-no fire blanket inside
-fire bricks all seem a little loose and will likely move and shift
-the door does not open as far as it does on my Tundra
-fan on low is very quiet

Eric


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## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> My T1 had the creo-juice drip only the first couple times that I used it, however, since then it has never been a problem. I sealed my pipe joints up pretty well using  rope gasket. After firing up the Heat Commander last night using kiln dried pallet softwood, it caused a large 3"-4" diameter puddle as well. I put a large paper towel over the puddle to minimize the mess.
> 
> A couple other items I noticed:
> -no fire blanket inside
> -fire bricks all seem a little loose and will likely move and shift
> -the door does not open as far as it does on my Tundra
> -fan on low is very quiet
> 
> Eric



I put a small metal tray under the pipe joint on our Tundra to catch any creosote and will do the same on the Heat Commander. Looking at the tray right now, it has a dozen drops of creosote and a lot of dust from the past 6 years.  

I noticed the same with the fire brick and also noted that some are very soft pumice-style bricks, while a few are the harder clay-style bricks. Not sure what the rhyme and reason is for the different types.

Also agree with the door. The Tundra hinges allowed the door to swing 180*, but the Heat Commander hinges only let it open a bit past 90* before the door touches the face of the furnace. 

Overall, the build looks solid and the welds look great. Of course, I'm a hack welder, so anything thats smooth and unspattered looks dandy to me. :-D

I was skeptical of the single lifting point thats held with two, small welds, but it handled the journey into the basement while hanging from a chain just fine.


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## Gbawol42

Following as I was really close to joining you guys with trying out this furnace.  Just can't justify it enough yet as I have my heatmax 2 dialed in right where I want it.


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## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> noted that some are very soft pumice-style bricks, while a few are the harder clay-style bricks. Not sure what the rhyme and reason is for the different types.



I have seen the varying quality of bricks for sale at stores as well.  I will no longer buy my bricks from Menards...they carry those lightweight cheap junk ones.  One of them is cracked already with just one season on them.  The local hardware store carries the much more robust/heavier ones that pretty much look/feel like the ones that came with my Kuuma....BUT they are also way more expensive.  They hold up much better though.


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## sloeffle

brenndatomu said:


> Pay the $2599 membership fee...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HEAT COMMANDER WOOD FURNACE
> 
> 
> Among the most efficient systems on the market based on distributed energy, the Heat Commander is a central heating system that is both cutting edge and accessible thanks to its innovative design and ease of use. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> myfireplaceproducts.com


I'm more interested in the discounted price personally, especially for a new to the market product.   

Honestly though, I'd have to do a ton of duct work re-work to make it work. Do you have to keep the plenum on it that they supply ?


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I put a large paper towel over the puddle to minimize the mess.


So it misses the new controls box and still drips onto the blower box then?


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## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> I'm more interested in the discounted price personally, especially for a new to the market product.
> 
> Honestly though, I'd have to do a ton of duct work re-work to make it work. Do you have to keep the plenum on it that they supply ?


That's a good question...I don't see why you would have too...I'm sure they will still use a standard plenum on the Caddy version when it comes out...which will still be just a different flavor of the same furnace I'd guess...(wood only model Caddy vs Heat Commander)


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## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> So it misses the new controls box and still drips onto the blower box then?



My puddle was close to the rear of the furnace, right below the stove pipe connection, on top of the control box.

Eric


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## andym

brenndatomu said:


> Might be easiest to hook the plenum straight into the supply duct like a normal furnace, skip the 6"pipes
> QUOTE="brenndatomu, post: 2461679, member: 28195"]
> That's a good question...I don't see why you would have too...I'm sure they will still use a standard plenum on the Caddy version when it comes out...which will still be just a different flavor of the same furnace I'd guess...(wood only model Caddy vs Heat Commander)


Thats what I did. I used the plenum that came with the furnace and attached an 8x22 duct to the side. I need to check the static pressure, but I know I've got plenty of airflow. As long as the static pressure is not too high, I don't know why this method wouldnt be acceptable. In most cases it's easier.


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## Greg46m

Hey everyone, first I just wanted to say thanks to everybody that contributes to this site. I found the forums last winter when I started looking at buying a cheap Shelter model at Menards. Thankfully I came here first and was quickly educated on how much I probably shouldn't do that.

The idea for a wood furnace came back to mind a few days ago and I started looking and researching again and I think I'll be clicking BUY on one of these Wood Commanders very soon. I can only hope that they learned from some of the pains with the early Tundra's and there won't be cracking problems with this model. Hopefully one of you guys are able to get yours installed and have it running for a few days to be able to speak to the performance.

I haven't seen anyone mention it on here yet but when I looked at Drolet's website, I see they have a $300 rebate available if you purchase a Wood Commander before the end of this month. I also saw a link on MFP's website to a $300 Tax Credit that is available as well, which takes the price of this thing down to $1999.

Looking forward to everything that the new Heat Commander owners have to say about them!


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## laynes69

I have an 8x18 trunk and a 8" line coming off mine. I would do the same thing with the plenum as I have a main trunk with the size of the home.


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## Greg46m

Greg46m said:


> The idea for a wood furnace came back to mind a few days ago and I started looking and researching again and I think I'll be clicking BUY on one of these Wood Commanders very soon. I can only hope that they learned from some of the pains with the early Tundra's and there won't be cracking problems with this model. Hopefully one of you guys are able to get yours installed and have it running for a few days to be able to speak to the performance.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone mention it on here yet but when I looked at Drolet's website, I see they have a $300 rebate available if you purchase a Wood Commander before the end of this month. I also saw a link on MFP's website to a $300 Tax Credit that is available as well, which takes the price of this thing down to $1999.
> ...


That should obviously say "Heat" Commander, not wood..


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## brenndatomu

Greg46m said:


> I see they have a $300 rebate available if you purchase a Wood Commander before the end of this month. I also saw a link on MFP's website to a $300 Tax Credit that is available as well, which takes the price of this thing down to $1999.


Right back there in Tundra territory again...too bad Menards don't handle Drolet furnaces anymore, would probably be another couple hundred off if you waited on a good sale...


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## Gearhead660

brenndatomu said:


> The first thing that jumps out at me in that pic from the rear is that the controls box looks to be right where creosote will drip on it from the chimney connector...seems like every Tundra I have ever seen has a black stain on the top of the blower box from that...first fire of the year (at least) always seems to drip a bit...hopefully things are sealed up well enough that any creo juice drip doesn't cause problems. If not, looks like a good place for a metal splash shield?


Got me thinking....Went and looked at mine, no stain.  I dont think it has ever dripped.


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## andym

I still can hardly believe they actually got them on the market already. What really surprises me is the prices you all are quoting. That sounds too cheap for new technology!


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## brenndatomu

andym said:


> That sounds too cheap for new technology!


It appears that its really not that different from the T1, and even more so the T2...minor tweaks, and changed the air inlets around added 2 stepper motors and a controller...the electronics aren't really that expensive either...I replaced a stepper motor on one of the VF200's I had and it was only ~$20...and the temp controllers that many of us were/are using on the Tundra's are under $50...some well under.


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## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> It appears that its really not that different from the T1, and even more so the T2...minor tweaks, and changed the air inlets around added 2 stepper motors and a controller...the electronics aren't really that expensive either...I replaced a stepper motor on one of the VF200's I had and it was only ~$20...and the temp controllers that many of us were/are using on the Tundra's are under $50...some well under.



I think my temp controller was $13, only displays Celsius, lol. Buuuuut it works pretty well once dialed in.


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## FixedGearFlyer

The Heat Commander is in and I got it connected to the chimney this morning. It's first, paint curing fire is underway and I'll connect the ducts after one or two more fume-burning fires. 

It's fun to watch it work and it's doing a nice job of holding well-developed secondaries through a long burn. The stepper motors and thermocouples are a big step forward from the Tundra's open-closed thermostat system. 

I'm also loving how quiet the blower is. 

FYI, this is with a Field Type RC barometric draft control set to hold 0.06" W.C. as measured and verfied with a Magnehelic gauge.


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## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> The Heat Commander is in and I got it connected to the chimney this morning. It's first, paint curing fire is underway and I'll connect the ducts after one or two more fume-burning fires.
> 
> It's fun to watch it work and it's doing a nice job of holding well-developed secondaries through a long burn. The stepper motors and thermocouples are a big step forward from the Tundra's open-closed thermostat system.
> 
> I'm also loving how quiet the blower is.
> 
> FYI, this is with a Field Type RC barometric draft control set to hold 0.06" W.C. as measured and verfied with a Magnehelic gauge.





You actually built a crib?!


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## FixedGearFlyer

_aw_


JRHAWK9 said:


> You actually built a crib?!



If you mean the way the wood is laid, yes...

I've laid N-S, E-W, N-S, kindling, paper to start fires for the decade we've been heating our house with wood. It's always been the bees' knees for one-match, easy fire starts. 

Is there something else I should be doing?


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## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> _aw_
> 
> 
> If you mean the way the wood is laid, yes...
> 
> I've laid N-S, E-W, N-S, kindling, paper to start fires for the decade we've been heating our house with wood. It's always been the bees' knees for one-match, easy fire starts.
> 
> Is there something else I should be doing?




Gotcha.  Yeah, it probably does make starting a fire easy.  I thought you did it because that's how the owners manual states how they want you to load.  Thinking you would be doing the same for re-loads in the dead of winter.  Doing so on hot coals may make things a bit interesting trying not to burn yourself.


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## trx250r87

I spoke to one of the SBI employees a couple days ago and he said a "top down" fire was what he preferred and recommended.

Eric


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I spoke to one of the SBI employees a couple days ago and he said a "top down" fire was what he preferred and recommended.
> 
> Eric


Reading the manual they say to load it crib style all the time...and they list some very specific spacing, tighter/looser according to how much heat is needed, IIRC. Sounds like a real PITA to me, and I really doubt that many people will load that way all the time...by spring most people just chuck it in there...when most firebricks get broken IMO...if its really important to the way these things work to be loaded that way I think SBI will be disappointed...but I can't imagine they would actually expect that in the real world...my guess is that was the way it was loaded for the EPA test, so that's how they make them write up the operational directions too...gotta keep the lawyers paid...


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## JRHAWK9

trx250r87 said:


> I spoke to one of the SBI employees a couple days ago and he said a "top down" fire was what he preferred and recommended.
> 
> Eric





brenndatomu said:


> Reading the manual they say to load it crib style all the time...and they list some very specific spacing, tighter/looser according to how much heat is needed, IIRC. Sounds like a real PITA to me, and I really doubt that many people will load that way all the time...by spring most people just chuck it in there...when most firebricks get broken IMO...if its really important to the way these things work to be loaded that way I think SBI will be disappointed...but I can't imagine they would actually expect that in the real world...my guess is that was the way it was loaded for the EPA test, so that's how they make them write up the operational directions too...gotta keep the lawyers paid...




Asking for a friend.....how does one go about flipping the furnace over after every re-load on hot coals to assure a "top down" fire?


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## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> Asking for a friend.....how does one go about flipping the furnace over after every re-load on hot coals to assure a "top down" fire?


Well...I'd guess you hafta use telescoping stove pipe so that it will easily swivel, then you get one of those old shaker grate handles for the crank...then you put your back into it...kinda like starting a model T


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## FixedGearFlyer

JRHAWK9 said:


> Gotcha.  Yeah, it probably does make starting a fire easy.  I thought you did it because that's how the owners manual states how they want you to load.  Thinking you would be doing the same for re-loads in the dead of winter.  Doing so on hot coals may make things a bit interesting trying not to burn yourself.



Ah! Now I understand!

Yeah, just for the light-off in my top-down fires. Reloads are all N-S. :-D

I think I only have one season of old telephone pole cedar left for kindling. That makes me sad . . .


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## SBI_Nick

Hi everyone,

I work at SBI as an engineer. I will represent the team on the forum regarding the technical aspect. We are excited about the new Heat Commander and are looking forward to hear your comments. We have read the comments and we would like to discuss a few.


Lifting the furnace
_Yes, you can carefully lift the whole furnace from the hook welded on the heat exchanger. It has been designed for this, we lift it from there in the factory. We have been using the same hook design since many years without issues._

Creosote vs control board
_We are aware of this risk, it is the reason why the main board is located on the side instead of the middle. What you see on the picture is the supplementary connected device, only few furnaces are equipped with it.  With the new furnace design we estimated that the risk is minimal._

Fire blanket behind the firebricks
_It has been removed, with the combustion being regulated it easier to manage the firebox temperature._

Gap between firebricks
_The brick tolerances are pretty large and also we need to keep some gap to adapt to heat cycle (expansion/contraction) of the firebox.  For the bottom firebrick once the furnace will have burn few times the ashes will fill the gap and maintain the bricks in place. All the other bricks have brick retainers to prevent them to shift._

The door opening
_We have extended the air jacket to the front, doing that have reduced the door opening, but at the same time we have diminish the heat loss from the front of the unit and increase the efficiency_

Different brick types
_This is more of a cost-driven decision, to reduce the number of cut bricks, we use a different size. This brick is not made from the same material, but both offer similar performance._

Technology
_The Heat Commander is much smarter than the Tundra, the air control will self-regulate according to the combustion chamber temperature. Regardless of the input, it will operate under the cleanest operating conditions._

Top down fire start-up
_For a cold start, we believe this is the best way to start a fire. Less maintenance and a fast, intense fire with less smoke (less pollution), but we know that every user has their own way of starting a fire._

Loading
_You can load it as you like. We have tested the Heat Commander with many different sizes and load orientations and it always performs well, thanks to the self regulation. But this is what we recommend for optimum performance._


Thanks,

Nicolas


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## brenndatomu

Welcome to Hearth @SBI_Nick ! Good to see some SBI reps participating on here again! Can't wait to hear some feedback from these guys on the HC...got to get rid of these dang 70*F + temps we've been having 'round here though! 
What's your feelings about a person hooking the plenum up direct to a main supply (trunk) duct, by-passing using all the little 6" pipes?


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## FixedGearFlyer

Thank you for the detailed reply, @SBI_Nick !

Our Heat Commander is connected to our (new) supply and return trunks and I just lit off a small load to test static pressures and balance the registers. This is what it looks like an hour into the burn. The furnace is doing a wonderful job maintaining the secondaries.


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## hockeypuck

FixedGearFlyer said:


> _aw_
> 
> 
> If you mean the way the wood is laid, yes...
> 
> I've laid N-S, E-W, N-S, kindling, paper to start fires for the decade we've been heating our house with wood. It's always been the bees' knees for one-match, easy fire starts.
> 
> Is there something else I should be doing?


Top down fire for the win.  Nice work!


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## trx250r87

While the manual for the Heat Commander states average power consumption is 330 watts, I'm measuring closer to 380-385 watts using a Kill-A-Watt measuring device. Maybe Canadian power is different from USA power?

Eric


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## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> average power consumption is 330 watts


"average"
What's your voltage at? That will affect  watts





						Watts/Volts/Amps/Ohms Calculator
					

Watts (W) / volts (V) / amps (A) / ohms (Ω) calculator.




					www.rapidtables.com
				




Also, what's your static pressure at? The more air you move, the more power it will pull...


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## RockyMtnGriz

Could be, you shouldn't believe everything you read in the marketing materials.  Also, could be, that was recorded at the optimum static pressure in your output ducting.  If that's low, the power required to run the blower motor will go up.  Nothing wrong with that, really, as you'll be circulating more air, but it will affect the power draw from the blower motor.  Kind of like the difference of running the blower on medium vs. high.


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## RockyMtnGriz

RockyMtnGriz said:


> Could be, you shouldn't believe everything you read in the marketing materials.  Also, could be, that was recorded at the optimum static pressure in your output ducting.  If that's low, the power required to run the blower motor will go up.  Nothing wrong with that, really, as you'll be circulating more air, but it will affect the power draw from the blower motor.  Kind of like the difference of running the blower on medium vs. high.



Why I didn't see Brenndatomu's more concise reply on this thread,  before I offered mine -I do not know.  But we're thinking the same thing.


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## FixedGearFlyer

Okay, it's in and doing what it does! 

Still need to do a few odds and ends to wrap up the new supply and return trunks and ducts, but it's 100% servicable.

I'll offer updates as I have them, but, so far, it's impressive and does a beautiful job of delivering efficient, even, long burns. It's been going all day (30*F outside and we have to open the windows all afternoon) on two small loads. It's just down to small coals now after a total of just under 12 hours burning. The first load was a dozen wrist-size splits and the second load was half that.

The plenum and larger blower are a huge upgrade from our Tundra and being able to build proper supply and return trunks (vs having two 8" takeoffs) already makes a big improvement in how even the heat is through our house.

Bring it on, Old Man Winter. My skis are waxed, we have 5 full cords of seasoned maple in the basement, and the blower is on the old Ford tractor!


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## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> It's been going all day (30*F outside and we have to open the windows all afternoon) on two small loads.


So is that a result of the thermostat control not working out real well, or just loading too much wood/too soon?


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## laynes69

With my experience here, a thermostat doesn't shine until the weather drops low. However, our house was 74 with essentially no heat after around noon, until about a half an hour ago where I put a few punky pieces of wood. My buddy on the other hand has less than half the square footage than us, lives about 1.5 miles down the road and has 3 baseboards heaters and a gas basement heater running and can't take his house above 60. He would cycle the thermostat, we don't.


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## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> So is that a result of the thermostat control not working out real well, or just loading too much wood/too soon?



Oh! Nothing wrong with the furnace or t-stat. It was a testing and adjustment day. The comment was meant as a positive impression of how long two small loads burned and put out meaningful, well captured heat.

I was pushing t-stat and plenum temps to check heat distribution and balance around the house with the new ducts, check plenum and duct temps, check static pressures at different fan speeds, find and seal any remaining duct air leaks, etc.

I did find that when the t-stat was satisfied, the fan never cycled because the hot air would rise up the trunk to the second floor while the first floor trunk would reverse flow cold air into the plenum and keep the thermocouple from kicking on the fan due to low temps.

I had a damper handy, which went into the second floor supply trunk and was sufficient to stop the air movement when the fan is off. Now, the fan and plenum temps cycle as expected when the t-stat is not calling for heat.

If we'd been burning for comfort, the small morning fire would have been sufficient for the entire day's heat load.


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## Matt78

Should be getting mine next week! Can't wait. Going to have the ductwork all redone on the house!


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## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Should be getting mine next week! Can't wait. Going to have the ductwork all redone on the house!


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## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Going to have the ductwork all redone on the house!


I had to have some major changes done on the ductwork back when I installed my old Yukon furnace...called for a couple estimates and was blown in the weeds...fortunately my neighbor is the tin knocker for the local HVAC shop...he fixed me right up...and wouldn't take a dime, we did work out a barter deal though. I helped him as much as possible and learned a lot.
Fast forward to the exit of the Yukon, and install of the Kuuma, had to rework some of the ductwork again, but the neighbor said his employer had them all sign a non compete order a couple years ago, so couldn't help this time...but I had learned enough about it the first time around that I was able to do it myself this time!


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> I had to have some major changes done on the ductwork back when I installed my old Yukon furnace...called for a couple estimates and was blown in the weeds...fortunately my neighbor is the tin knocker for the local HVAC shop...he fixed me right up...and wouldn't take a dime, we did work out a barter deal though. I helped him as much as possible and learned a lot.
> Fast forward to the exit of the Yukon, and install of the Kuuma, had to rework some of the ductwork again, but the neighbor said his employer had them all sign a non compete order a couple years ago, so couldn't help this time...but I had learned enough about it the first time around that I was able to do it myself this time!


That would be awesome knowing someone!


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> I had to have some major changes done on the ductwork back when I installed my old Yukon furnace...called for a couple estimates and was blown in the weeds...fortunately my neighbor is the tin knocker for the local HVAC shop...he fixed me right up...and wouldn't take a dime, we did work out a barter deal though. I helped him as much as possible and learned a lot.
> Fast forward to the exit of the Yukon, and install of the Kuuma, had to rework some of the ductwork again, but the neighbor said his employer had them all sign a non compete order a couple years ago, so couldn't help this time...but I had learned enough about it the first time around that I was able to do it myself this time!


Haha did you tell him non compete orders are for leaving the company and starting your own also stealing workers in the process not just helping a buddy out? Anyways that’s awesome to have learned the first time around! Keep updates coming on this thread I’m following for sure!


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> Haha did you tell him non compete orders are for leaving the company and starting your own also stealing workers in the process not just helping a buddy out? Anyways that’s awesome to have learned the first time around! Keep updates coming on this thread I’m following for sure!


Maybe he called it something else...basically a standard non compete, plus not supposed do side work, and are only allowed to use shop equipment after hours for working on/replace/repair their own personal household systems.


----------



## Case1030

Who here replaced their T1 with the new Heat Commander? Curious about burn times. Are they getting similar coals after X amount of hours for relight/reloads?

Edit:
@trx250r87 did you have a temp controller installed on your t1?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Case1030 said:


> Who here replaced their T1 with the new Heat Commander? Curious about burn times. Are they getting similar coals after X amount of hours for relight/reloads?
> 
> Edit:
> @trx250r87 did you have a temp controller installed on your t1?


 
We did, but I can't comment on your question, yet - it really hasn't been cold enough to do more than single loads.

On those single loads of equal size, I feel like the heat commander is burning longer and more evenly than our T1 did.


----------



## Case1030

FixedGearFlyer said:


> We did, but I can't comment on your question, yet - it really hasn't been cold enough to do more than single loads.
> 
> On those single loads of equal size, I feel like the heat commander is burning longer and more evenly than our T1 did.



Probably a little cooler in your basement now with the extra front cover and cover insulation. (Better delivery efficiency)?


----------



## Case1030

Also here are some questions that were answered by one of the Drolet reps that I have been in contact with regarding the Heat Commander that others might find usefull.


Is the Heat Commander plenum the same size as the Tundra II for retrofit purposes?

Plenum size are the same on both furnace (W 22 3/8’’ x D 26 7/8’’).

The Heat Commander firebox is a little larger than the Tundra II.
Do we know the plenum temps kick-in and kick-off points for the fan?

We have two KIP, one at 130°F when the furnace is “ON” and thermostat is calling for heat and the second KIP is at 190° when the furnace is “OFF on Stand-by” set room temperature has been reached.

Do we require q barometric damper on the install under certain circumstances?

Most installation will not require a barometric damper.

Fan speed will adjust to maintain even plenum/room temperature.


----------



## andym

Case1030 said:


> We have two KIP, one at 130°F when the furnace is “ON” and thermostat is calling for heat and the second KIP is at 190° when the furnace is “OFF on Stand-by” set room temperature has been reached


Does that mean a connected thermostat is required?


----------



## trx250r87

Case1030 said:


> Who here replaced their T1 with the new Heat Commander? Curious about burn times. Are they getting similar coals after X amount of hours for relight/reloads?
> 
> Edit:
> @trx250r87 did you have a temp controller installed on your t1?


No sir, I only used a countdown timer on mine. I also had all the updates from SBI installed. 

Eric


----------



## trx250r87

andym said:


> Does that mean a connected thermostat is required?



I installed the supplied Honeywell t-stat in the same room as my Heat Commander. I found that the t-stat cycled too often, causing the fan to cycle as well. I since have removed the t-stat and just jumpered the connection at the back"T" terminals. So far I like this setup better.

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I installed the supplied Honeywell t-stat in the same room as my Heat Commander. I found that the t-stat cycled too often, causing the fan to fan to cycle as well. I since have removed the t-stat and just jumpered the connection at the back"T" terminals. So far I like this setup better.
> 
> Eric


Depending on which stat that is, they can be adjusted to stop frequent cycling.
Doesn't the jumper wire make it think the tstat is calling for heat non stop...run hot/burn fast/overheat the house in mild weather?


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Depending on which stat that is, they can be adjusted to stop frequent cycling.
> Doesn't the jumper wire make it think the tstat is calling for heat non stop...run hot/burn fast/overheat the house in mild weather?



Yes, but I have been loading the furnace with wood based on weather and heat demand. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> Yes, but I have been loading the furnace with wood based on weather and heat demand.
> 
> Eric


That would be the equivalent to running a Kuuma on high...and I have been running on low/short loading just to keep temp under 73-74 inside!


----------



## andym

What does the furnace do when you reload and press the button? Does it burn wide open for a period to 'fire' the load as the manuals recommend for the older models? I always feel like that process is unduly long and is the main culprit of the heat surge from a new load. If the Heat Commander can minimize that time and spread that heat out through the rest of the burn, it will definitely be an improvement.


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> That would be the equivalent to running a Kuuma on high...and I have been running on low/short loading just to keep temp under 73-74 inside!



I don't like that much heat sitting in the plenum without the fan running. I'm still finalizing the duct connections from plenum to main gas furnace trunk so thinks may change. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I don't like that much heat sitting in the plenum without the fan running. I'm still finalizing the duct connections from plenum to main gas furnace trunk so thinks may change.
> 
> Eric


So the blower is off if the tstat is satisfied? If so, wouldn't care for that either...


----------



## brenndatomu

Blower needs an "ultra low" speed to keep a little heat coming to the house...something like 500-750 CFM when tstat is satisfied.
When the blower is not running you are still losing BTU's up the stack, but none is going to the house (unless you have a good gravity flow duct system)
That always drove me crazy, and is exactly what prompted the "invention" of the speed controller on my old  T1...I expected it to help with heating the house better, but it exceeded my expectations...and got rid of that annoying cycling!


----------



## Case1030

brenndatomu said:


> So the blower is off if the tstat is satisfied? If so, wouldn't care for that either...



Kinda back to the wide open/ off except more precise... not sure how well that would work in my house being I have a furnace on the same level and need the blower running to push heat into the living areas. It would be nice to utilize the idle while still moving air around a bit anyway...


----------



## andym

brenndatomu said:


> So the blower is off if the tstat is satisfied? If so, wouldn't care for that either...


Sounds like they expect the thermostat to work well. I can see that allowing plenum temps to go that high would allow the fire to burn more slowly yet still be efficient, since less heat is being moved away form the firebox. Wouldnt work too well with a 165° heat dump though!


----------



## Case1030

brenndatomu said:


> So the blower is off if the tstat is satisfied? If so, wouldn't care for that either...



I can see another "Tundra fourm" in the near future...


----------



## brenndatomu

Case1030 said:


> Kinda back to the wide open/ off except more precise... not sure how well that would work in my house being I have a furnace on the same level and need the blower running to push heat into the living areas. It would be nice to utilize the idle while still moving air around a bit anyway...


Yes, on some houses when it's really cold, or especially windy,  BTU's must be pumped into the house non stop to keep from "falling behind"...I know that means you might need a bigger furnace, but I'm talking about a situation that would not be the norm, so the furnace is big enough 98% of the time.
Plus blower on/off would give that hot/cold feel that a forced air fossil fuel furnace has...lets the air stratisphy floor to ceiling...cold feet!


----------



## brenndatomu

Case1030 said:


> I can see another "Tundra fourm" in the near future...


Yup   ...of course one of these guys will have to initiate it, since I'ma Kuuma boiy now ...well, get to thinking about it, I didn't have a Tundra when I first started that thread though either! Must have just been a cold boring day or something.


----------



## Case1030

brenndatomu said:


> Yes, on some houses when it's really cold, or especially windy,  BTU's must be pumped into the house non stop to keep from "falling behind"...I know that means you might need a bigger furnace, but I'm talking about a situation that would not be the norm, so the furnace is big enough 98% of the time.
> Plus blower on/off would give that hot/cold feel that a forced air fossil fuel furnace has...lets the air stratisphy floor to ceiling...cold feet!



Working on installing infloor heat in the crawlspace for the main floor. Just bought a 1 year old Heatmaster g100 for a good price. Thought I'd upgrade the Tundra to a Heat commander for a more controlled burn to help the boiler in times when it gets -40f.


----------



## andym

If there is any fire burning it should not take real long to reach 190°. In my situation I think it would gravity flow quite a bit at those temps. If your ductwork creates a heat trap then the blower will no doubt cycle regularly. But I agree it would be better to have a super low speed instead. Evidentally they don't consider 190 to be dangerously high, that's good to know.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> Depending on which stat that is, they can be adjusted to stop frequent cycling.
> Doesn't the jumper wire make it think the tstat is calling for heat non stop...run hot/burn fast/overheat the house in mild weather?



It's a basic low voltage t-stat. I didn't use the one that came with the furnace and instead used a battery powered, programmable t-stat with adjustable deltas each side of the set temp. Works great.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> So the blower is off if the tstat is satisfied? If so, wouldn't care for that either...



It turns off the blower initially, meters the combustion air for a low output, long duration burn, and then goes to the higher set point for the fan cycling. Even though the higher set point is 190 for the RTD thermostat, the ducts and plenum surface temps only get up to about 130* F before the fan kicks on.

The furnace front temps on the heat exchanger door are around 240*F and the external single wall flue temp is about 200*F when it's in that mode, so it's not over firing or over heating the furnace.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Case1030 said:


> Probably a little cooler in your basement now with the extra front cover and cover insulation. (Better delivery efficiency)?



Warmer! We added two registers in the basement, so we're getting heated air delivery in addition to the radiant heat from the furnace.


----------



## brenndatomu

andym said:


> If there is any fire burning it should not take real long to reach 190°. In my situation I think it would gravity flow quite a bit at those temps. If your ductwork creates a heat trap then the blower will no doubt cycle regularly. But I agree it would be better to have a super low speed instead. Evidentally they don't consider 190 to be dangerously high, that's good to know.


The funny thing is the T1 had a 200* (IIRC) high limit switch, and unless it fails closed (unlikely) it should open up if things get too hot, but when they first started cracking (and even later on) SBI was accusing people of over firing the T1, (leaving the manual switch on too long, etc) making them crack...but the HL switch should make "over firing" impossible (outside of propping the intake damper open or something stupid like that)...I guess where I'm going with this is it seems funny that 190* all day everyday is fine now, but 200* was over firing before? (I'm sure the firebox design has been improved, as far as longevity/durability)

You are right though, things _should_ gravity flow at those temps, but even without a "heat trap" per say...some of these long/flat duct runs that ranch homes tend to have still aren't gonna gravity flow real great.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> I guess where I'm going with this is it seems funny that 190* all day everyday is fine now, but 200* was over firing before? (I'm sure the firebox design has been improved, as far as longevity/durability)



I think the differentiator is that 200*F plenum/air jacket temps don't equal an over fire - the furnace body and face temps that drove T1 plenum temps that high with a fan running were the issue.

On the Heat Commander, the furnace face and flue temps are really mellow and it's in energy conservation burn mode when it's cycling at the 190*F point. The furnace is nowhere near an over fire in that situation.

In the T1, if you hit the 200*F limit switch in the air jacket with the fan running (which it always should have been at that temp), your furnace temps were WAY higher than the Heat Commander in fan-off, energy-saving mode.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion.

(Edit to add: It's worth noting that I don't think we ever hit the high limit on our Tundra.)


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> If there is any fire burning it should not take real long to reach 190°. In my situation I think it would gravity flow quite a bit at those temps. If your ductwork creates a heat trap then the blower will no doubt cycle regularly. But I agree it would be better to have a super low speed instead. Evidentally they don't consider 190 to be dangerously high, that's good to know.



We initially had no fan cycling and all of the heat was rising up the supply duct to our second floor while cold air gravity fed in through the first floor supply trunk in reverse of the normal air flow.

I used a one way damper in the second floor supply duct to stop the rising air from creating a siphon. It's technically trying to move in the proper direction for the damper flaps, but the weigh of the flaps is enough to hold the rising air back without a fan blowing. 

Now, the fan cycles for about 60 seconds every 4 or 5 minutes and we get nice convective airflow on the first floor when the fan is off and the t-stat is satisfied. 

Note that we disconnected the second floor duct with the T1 because we don't want it to be very warm up there. We're happy if it's 10 degrees or so cooler for better sleeping.


----------



## Mrpelletburner

andym said:


> What does the furnace do when you reload and press the button? Does it burn wide open for a period to 'fire' the load as the manuals recommend for the older models? I always feel like that process is unduly long and is the main culprit of the heat surge from a new load. If the Heat Commander can minimize that time and spread that heat out through the rest of the burn, it will definitely be an improvement.



I don’t recall seeing an answer to this question.

Eric can you comment on this?

Also, is there any smoke that exits the door when you start the unit? If I read correctly, the door has to stay opened when reloading?


----------



## trx250r87

Mrpelletburner said:


> I don’t recall seeing an answer to this question.
> 
> Eric can you comment on this?
> 
> Also, is there any smoke that exits the door when you start the unit? If I read correctly, the door has to stay opened when reloading?


Maybe @SBI_Nick can answer this as I'm not sure what is supposed to happen vs what is happening with my furnace. 
I'm still trying to finalize some plenum/duct connections as my basement is getting way too warm with most of the plenum air not making it up stairs. 

Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Mrpelletburner said:


> I don’t recall seeing an answer to this question.
> 
> Eric can you comment on this?
> 
> Also, is there any smoke that exits the door when you start the unit? If I read correctly, the door has to stay opened when reloading?



Yes, when you press the reload button, the primary shutter opens fully and thr grill shutter opens about 30%. They remain open for a period of time to char and fire the wood, then close for optimal burn. 

You only need to leave the door cracked for a minute or two while ensuring that the flames engage the wood (on a reload) or your kindling catches (on a cold start).


----------



## Rockstar1346

I wish sbi would do an informational video on it similar to the ones on the caddy line which I’m assuming is very similar. But would be nice to see the new features highlighted.


----------



## andym

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Yes, when you press the reload button, the primary shutter opens fully and thr grill shutter opens about 30%. They remain open for a period of time to char and fire the wood, then close for optimal burn.
> 
> You only need to leave the door cracked for a minute or two while ensuring that the flames engage the wood (on a reload) or your kindling catches (on a cold start).


So basically an automated version of how the older tundras worked. Does the air control adjust often?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> So basically an automated version of how the older tundras worked. Does the air control adjust often?



It's the same heat exhanger, but a different firebox with what I'd call "three-stage" combustion: metered "boost" air through the floor grill, metered primary air, and unmetered secondary air.

The shutters on the grill and primary openings adjust in real time, based on fire gas thermocouple readings. I've seen them make small adjustments every 10 or 15 seconds, but it's smart enough to wait a bit most of the time to let the adjustment stabilize before making another one.


----------



## SBI_Nick

Hello, here few answers to more concerns:


What do you think about hooking the plenum up direct to a main supply (trunk) duct, by-passing using all the little 6" pipes?
_Modifying the supply duct might affect the furnace performance. If this is your only option, we recommended to keep the outlet surface area between the minimum (170 sq in) and maximum (285 sq in) allowed. If you do that, it is important to keep a proper static pressure and keep the plenum temperature probe at the same place. At the end of the day, the easiest and best way to do that is to use our air supply adapter kit (AC01396). Using the adapter kit will ensure that the furnace will perform properly.  _http://files.drolet.ca/upload/image...66.1956502533.1605710370-687149352.1579267598



Power consumption?
_The power consumption on the web site is the average from an EPA test. As some of you mention, static pressure has a big impact on power consumption. If your power consumption is higher, it’s probably because your static pressure is lower and the blower moves more air. _


Blower speed
_The blower speed is fixed, we don’t use other speed like in the Tundra. The fan will stay at the same speed and switch only if the furnace is overheating. What you will noticed is that the blower will start and stop at the different temperature according to the thermostat state to increase comfort. The main reason why we did that change was to meet the emission standard._


Thermostat requirements
_The furnace has been designed and certified to be operated with a t-stat, if you don’t the furnace will always be burning at the lowest burn rate possible. This will also affect the furnace efficiency, adapting your load to the heat demand is probably the smartest thing to do. Having a thermostat will improve homeowner’s comfort and optimize the furnace combustion and heat transfer efficiency. The heat Commander as what we called a coal burning function, at the end of a load it will produced more heat then the Tundra and reduce the coal build up which is a big advantage over the Tundra. To take advantage of this, it needs to be hook to a thermostat. By passing the t-stat could decrease the lifetime of the furnace even if the design has been improved. For sure, the smart controlled should also prevent overfiring but if you have to do that to heat your house, it probably means that the furnace is too small or something else is wrong. Yes, you should hook the furnace to a thermostat.

_

Thermostat Delta
_On some t-stat you can change the delta T, I think for most of them you can choose 1 or 2 degrees. With the one supplied with the furnace you can’t do that, but you can set the number of heating cycle from 1 to 6 cycle an hour. I’ve personally never experienced it but can be an interesting feature to try._



Plenum overheating temperature
_The plenum overheating temperature are set during the safety testing (shall not affect emission under any circumstances). The standard state that the plenum temperature shall never exceed 250F during normal operation (which is not such normal for a user when you see the test, it is extreme). So, we set a temperature that is far enough from normal temperature and also far enough from safety limit. If someone continuously hit the overheating, it means that there is probably something wrong with the plenum set-up, static pressure, air return, filter or blower. Comparing the temperature between the Tundra 1( 2x 8’’ duct) and the Heat Commander is like comparing orange and apple, the overall jacket temperature of the Tundra was much higher than the Heat commander, the air volume was much smaller. This is the main reason why we switched to a rectangular plenum in the Tundra II, to be able to run the furnace cooler. Also, it’s not because you read 200 F at a specific point, that it is the same in the air jacket. The overheating temperature is calibrated between the sensor location and the 250 F safety limit while testing._



Button
_Every time you start a fire or reload the furnace we recommend to press the button. Depending if the furnace is cold or warm it won’t react exactly the same way. Basically, you tell the furnace that you have add wood. According to the firebox temperature, it will open the air inlet and increase the amount of air to the firebox until clean combustion is achieved. The main purpose of that, is to reduced smoldering, emission, to simplify starts-up, reloads and improve efficiency. You will probably have a heat boost for the first few minutes, but it will ensure you have a good fire going  and as soon as the combustion is set and clean the burn rate will reduce as much as possible (depending of t-stat input) to save wood._



Thanks,



Nicolas


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

A Heat Commander update:

It's a properly chilly November day in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The temp was 23*F at dawn and it's about 27*F with a stiff wind and flurries at 3:00pm.

When I came downstairs this morning, it was 60*F on the first floor. I flipped on the pellet stove while I made coffee, answered emails, had breakfast, and planned out my day. That brought the downstairs to about 65*F at the center, and a bit cooler away from the pellet stove.

Around 9am, I turned off the pellet stove and ducked into the basement (with a fresh cuppa) and made a small fire in the Heat Commander. "Small" means about 8 or 10 wrist-size splits of maple, which is about 1/3 of what the furnace can take. 

The thermostat is set to 70* and it's been between 70 and 73 since about 9:45am. As I type (and, actually, what made me think to make this post), the furnace is in "energy conservation, no call for heat" mode with a nice bed of coals that's still cycling the fan on and off. 

So, just over 6 hours of good heat on a small load of small maple splits. It's 71*F on the first floor, 67*F on the second floor, and 62*F in the basement. 

Of major note, I literally didn't touch the Heat Commander or the thermostat after lighting it this morning - we let the Heat Commander's computer manage the burn while we spent the day out in our family's shop, sewing and filling orders while our kiddos were in the house. 

If things continue like this, it's going to be the easiest, warmest winter in the 10 years that we've lived here.


----------



## Gbawol42

FixedGearFlyer said:


> A Heat Commander update:
> 
> It's a properly chilly November day in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The temp was 23*F at dawn and it's about 27*F with a stiff wind and flurries at 3:00pm.



Where you at in the Upper Peninsula?


----------



## Matt78

Hopefully getting ours hooked up Friday or Saturday!! Can't wait!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Gbawol42 said:


> Where you at in the Upper Peninsula?



Marquette. You?


----------



## Rockstar1346

FixedGearFlyer said:


> A Heat Commander update:
> 
> It's a properly chilly November day in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The temp was 23*F at dawn and it's about 27*F with a stiff wind and flurries at 3:00pm.
> 
> When I came downstairs this morning, it was 60*F on the first floor. I flipped on the pellet stove while I made coffee, answered emails, had breakfast, and planned out my day. That brought the downstairs to about 65*F at the center, and a bit cooler away from the pellet stove.
> 
> Around 9am, I turned off the pellet stove and ducked into the basement (with a fresh cuppa) and made a small fire in the Heat Commander. "Small" means about 8 or 10 wrist-size splits of maple, which is about 1/3 of what the furnace can take.
> 
> The thermostat is set to 70* and it's been between 70 and 73 since about 9:45am. As I type (and, actually, what made me think to make this post), the furnace is in "energy conservation, no call for heat" mode with a nice bed of coals that's still cycling the fan on and off.
> 
> So, just over 6 hours of good heat on a small load of small maple splits. It's 71*F on the first floor, 67*F on the second floor, and 62*F in the basement.
> 
> Of major note, I literally didn't touch the Heat Commander or the thermostat after lighting it this morning - we let the Heat Commander's computer manage the burn while we spent the day out in our family's shop, sewing and filling orders while our kiddos were in the house.
> 
> If things continue like this, it's going to be the easiest, warmest winter in the 10 years that we've lived here.


So my question for either you or nick is after hitting that button can you literally walk away and the stove will take care of the rest? I ask because I work away a lot and the wife will not start the wood stove because she can’t get it to catch or will not manage the air controls haha. If this is the case I will be placing my order very soon because my electric bill is starting to scare me


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Rockstar1346 said:


> So my question for either you or nick is after hitting that button can you literally walk away and the stove will take care of the rest? I ask because I work away a lot and the wife will not start the wood stove because she can’t get it to catch or will not manage the air controls haha. If this is the case I will be placing my order very soon because my electric bill is starting to scare me



Actually, yes. You press the button, light your fire or reload on coals, keep the door cracked for a minute or two until it's burning well, close the door, and walk away.

In fact, you don't have any access to manually adjust the air controls - it's all managed by the furnace.


----------



## Gbawol42

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Marquette. You?



Saint Ignace


----------



## Mrpelletburner

FixedGearFlyer said:


> So, just over 6 hours of good heat on a small load of small maple splits. It's 71*F on the first floor, 67*F on the second floor, and 62*F in the basement.
> 
> Of major note, I literally didn't touch the Heat Commander or the thermostat after lighting it this morning - we let the Heat Commander's computer manage the burn while we spent the day out in our family's shop, sewing and filling orders while our kiddos were in the house.




Have you had any small back puffs when in idle mode?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Mrpelletburner said:


> Have you had any small back puffs when in idle mode?



No, not at all. But we have a strong draft in a 7x7 inch masonry flue that's metered at .06" W.C. by a Fields barometric damper. By the time the kindling has burned, the draft is well established.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Update:

It's been cold-ish the past few days, but nothing that's demanded more than one, small to medium burn per day. 

We let it get cool in the house last night and it was 60 when we woke up this morning. The plan (well, MY plan - my wife and kiddos really aren't that interested...) was to do our first full-load burn in the Heat Commander and see how long it goes for. 

I loaded the cold firebox to 4 inches below the secondary burn tubes, then lit a small kindling stack in front of the bottom splits at 730am. It burned nicely front to back and I went about my day.

It's now 530pm and, 10 hours later, the green "heat available" light is on, the blower is running, the house is 70*F, and there's still a 3-inch bed of coals in the back half of the firebox. 

I'll take that!


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Update:
> 
> It's been cold-ish the past few days, but nothing that's demanded more than one, small to medium burn per day.
> 
> We let it get cool in the house last night and it was 60 when we woke up this morning. The plan (well, MY plan - my wife and kiddos really aren't that interested...) was to do our first full-load burn in the Heat Commander and see how long it goes for.
> 
> I loaded the cold firebox to 4 inches below the secondary burn tubes, then lit a small kindling stack in front of the bottom splits at 730am. It burned nicely front to back and I went about my day.
> 
> It's now 530pm and, 10 hours later, the green "heat available" light is on, the blower is running, the house is 70*F, and there's still a 3-inch bed of coals in the back half of the firebox.
> 
> I'll take that!


Agreed! I was surprised to find my house at 70 degrees this morning at 6:30am when it was only 20 degrees F outside and I had enough hot coals for an easy reload.

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> Agreed! I was surprised to find my house at 70 degrees this morning at 6:30am when it was only 20 degrees F outside and I had enough hot coals for an easy reload.
> 
> Eric


When, and how much did you load last night?


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> When, and how much did you load last night?


I loaded 3-4 larger pieces of maple (maybe 8" diameter) around 9:30pm last night. I certainly didn't expect it to be producing heat at 6:30am!

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> I loaded 3-4 larger pieces of maple (maybe 8" diameter) around 9:30pm last night. I certainly didn't expect it to be producing heat at 6:30am!
> 
> Eric



Wow I haven't really seen anyone load these stoves with wood that big.  I kinda always wondered how it would effect the stove putting bigger pieces of fire wood in.  All of my wood is no bigger that 4-6" diameter.  Mainly split smaller to season faster.


----------



## trx250r87

Gbawol42 said:


> Wow I haven't really seen anyone load these stoves with wood that big.  I kinda always wondered how it would effect the stove putting bigger pieces of fire wood in.  All of my wood is no bigger that 4-6" diameter.  Mainly split smaller to season faster.


This was very dry, dead standing maple with no bark. I left a few pieces unsplit just to see how long and how clean they would burn. No complaints whatsoever. The fire bricks and glass door were perfectly clean too. 

Eric


----------



## andym

Did I see correctly that in the manual it shows 5" clearance to combustibles on the plenum but 0" for the ductwork itself? My Heatmax2 requires 5" and 1" respectively. I don't have a full inch clearance everywhere but it's pretty decent overall.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

5" clearance from the plenum, 1" for ducts for the first 12" of run, then 0" for ducts after 12".
"PLEASE NOTE: These clearances are NO LONGER correct. SBI issued an updated technical bulletin on 12/4/2020 and is amending the manual and furnace data plate to require a 1" clearance for ducts, even after 12". "


----------



## Matt78

Finally!!


----------



## Rockstar1346

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Update:
> 
> It's been cold-ish the past few days, but nothing that's demanded more than one, small to medium burn per day.
> 
> We let it get cool in the house last night and it was 60 when we woke up this morning. The plan (well, MY plan - my wife and kiddos really aren't that interested...) was to do our first full-load burn in the Heat Commander and see how long it goes for.
> 
> I loaded the cold firebox to 4 inches below the secondary burn tubes, then lit a small kindling stack in front of the bottom splits at 730am. It burned nicely front to back and I went about my day.
> 
> It's now 530pm and, 10 hours later, the green "heat available" light is on, the blower is running, the house is 70*F, and there's still a 3-inch bed of coals in the back half of the firebox.
> 
> I'll take that!


This is definitely what I like to hear! I got a pre epa right now and it seems like I’m constantly shoving it full of wood.. I’ll be upgrading here after we get Christmas out of the way, cheers.


----------



## andym

FixedGearFlyer said:


> 5" clearance from the plenum, 1" for ducts for the first 12" of run, then 0" for ducts after 12".


I wonder why that got changed? That makes me feel better with the way my ducts are run.


----------



## Case1030

andym said:


> I wonder why that got changed? That makes me feel better with the way my ducts are run.



I think it might be due to the furnace being able to completely shut itself down the primary and secondary inlets (inevent of power outage or overheat)... similar to it being very forgiving without a BD.


----------



## Matt78

Case1030 said:


> I think it might be due to the furnace being able to completely shut itself down the primary and secondary inlets (inevent of power outage or overheat)... similar to it being very forgiving without a BD.


There was a revision to this. 1" after the first 12"


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> I wonder why that got changed? That makes me feel better with the way my ducts are run.



JUST KIDDING! As @Matt78 says, we just got an update to the clearances this morning and they're ammending both the manual and the furnace data plates.

I'm guessing that the SBI team is watching this thread and our conversation helped them catch the documentation error, which is pretty cool.


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> JUST KIDDING! As @Matt78 says, we just got an update to the clearances this morning and they're ammending both the manual and the furnace data plates.
> 
> I'm guessing that the SBI team is watching this thread and our conversation helped them catch the documentation error, which is pretty cool.


Indeed! I tell ya their customer service is excellent!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Another update:

I adjusted our barometric damper so that the furnace is running between 0.04" and 0.05" W.C. It had been running so that it was centered on 0.06" W.C.

That small adjustment seems to have made a notable difference. The secondaries are larger, the temp on the heat exchanger door went up by about 70*F, the flue temp either stayed the same or dropped very slightly, and we noticed a significant increase in the heat output in the house. 

I suspect we'll also get longer burns, but didn't push it today because it's pretty warm out (30*F) and I don't want to cook my family.  
Here's a short video about 2 hours into a small load this afternoon, showing the secondaries and the magnehelic draft reading.

I'm writing this 4.5 hours into that burn and we still have a strong coal bed and good heat output.


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I adjusted our barometric damper so that the furnace is running between 0.04" and 0.05" W.C. It had been running so that it was centered on 0.06" W.C.
> 
> That small adjustment seems to have made a notable difference.


The difference between -0.04 and -0.06" can be huge! I tend to stay closer to -0.04" myself...after experimenting with different settings.


----------



## Case1030

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Another update:
> 
> I adjusted our barometric damper so that the furnace is running between 0.04" and 0.05" W.C. It had been running so that it was centered on 0.06" W.C.
> 
> That small adjustment seems to have made a notable difference. The secondaries are larger, the temp on the heat exchanger door went up by about 70*F, the flue temp either stayed the same or dropped very slightly, and we noticed a significant increase in the heat output in the house.
> 
> I suspect we'll also get longer burns, but didn't push it today because it's pretty warm out (30*F) and I don't want to cook my family.
> Here's a short video about 2 hours into a small load this afternoon, showing the secondaries and the magnehelic draft reading.
> 
> I'm writing this 4.5 hours into that burn and we still have a strong coal bed and good heat output.



How tall of a chimney do you have? Not sure if it's stated in previous posts?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Case1030 said:


> How tall of a chimney do you have? Not sure if it's stated in previous posts?



We have a beastly 7x7 inch masonry chimney that's 36 feet from base to cap and about 32 from thimble to cap.

I'm hoping to drop a 6-inch liner in it next summer.


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Another update:
> 
> I adjusted our barometric damper so that the furnace is running between 0.04" and 0.05" W.C. It had been running so that it was centered on 0.06" W.C.
> 
> That small adjustment seems to have made a notable difference. The secondaries are larger, the temp on the heat exchanger door went up by about 70*F, the flue temp either stayed the same or dropped very slightly, and we noticed a significant increase in the heat output in the house.
> 
> I suspect we'll also get longer burns, but didn't push it today because it's pretty warm out (30*F) and I don't want to cook my family.
> Here's a short video about 2 hours into a small load this afternoon, showing the secondaries and the magnehelic draft reading.
> 
> 
> I'm writing this 4.5 hours into that burn and we still have a strong coal bed and good heat output.





FixedGearFlyer said:


> I wonder how much your draft will change once the -20 degree weather hits in mid-January? I know mine sucks more than the Chicago Bears!
> 
> Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

With the baro damper, we can keep it in check pretty well. I've thought about adding a manual key damper for those really windy or bitterly cold days, but never seem to get around to it.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> The difference between -0.04 and -0.06" can be huge! I tend to stay closer to -0.04" myself...after experimenting with different settings.



I feel foolish for assuming that the top of the range was better - I ran 0.06" the whole 6 years we had the Tundra I.

0.04" is notably better.


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I feel foolish for not assuming that the top of the range was better - I ran 0.06" the whole 6 years we had the Tundra I.
> 
> 0.04" is notably better.


Higher draft will help eek out higher output when needed...but burn time, efficiency, and wood usage suffers a little too. 
But too high can cause over-fire too.
-0.04 to -0.06 doesn't sound like much, but if you think about it, -0.06 is 50% more than -0.04!


----------



## andym

I may need to adjust my BD to a lower setting as well. I've had mine running .06-.07. I've never used a BD before and am slowly learning how great they are. I've had it set a little high because I don't want to wind up with too little draft at the end of a burn. But it's finally soaking into my thick skull that the damper only meters the high end, not the low. One more thing to experiment with....

So you really think I helped SBI catch a typo? That is pretty cool! Maybe I should get a raise or something?


----------



## Matt78

First fire! Knock the stank off this thing!!


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Another update:
> 
> I adjusted our barometric damper so that the furnace is running between 0.04" and 0.05" W.C. It had been running so that it was centered on 0.06" W.C.
> 
> That small adjustment seems to have made a notable difference. The secondaries are larger, the temp on the heat exchanger door went up by about 70*F, the flue temp either stayed the same or dropped very slightly, and we noticed a significant increase in the heat output in the house.
> 
> I suspect we'll also get longer burns, but didn't push it today because it's pretty warm out (30*F) and I don't want to cook my family.
> Here's a short video about 2 hours into a small load this afternoon, showing the secondaries and the magnehelic draft reading.
> 
> I'm writing this 4.5 hours into that burn and we still have a strong coal bed and good heat output.



Could I get a part # for the fields baro damper your using? Is that a manometer in your video or does that work with the fields damper? Fire looks nice man!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Matt78 said:


> First fire! Knock the stank off this thing!!



NICE

Man, I wanted mine 8" up on blocks for easy loading, but the flue collar was about 1-1/2" higher than the Tundra I. That meant I could only go up 6" while keeping a 1/4" per foot rise on my 4 foot flue pipe. :-/


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> NICE
> 
> Man, I wanted mine 8" up on blocks for easy loading, but the flue collar was about 1-1/2" higher than the Tundra I. That meant I could only go up 6" while keeping a 1/4" per foot rise on my 4 foot flue pipe. :-/


I had to adjust some things too because of that. Pretty much had to shorten the pipe. Mine 90's twice. Normally get -.04 to -.05 draft with no wind. So far so good. Little fire has house at 70 degree with it being 33 degrees outside. Can't wait for it to get cold now!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Matt78 said:


> Could I get a part # for the fields baro damper your using? Is that a manometer in your video or does that work with the fields damper? Fire looks nice man!



It's a 6" Field Controls Type RC baro: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-C...eJ78Gg5VNaZ_towm0vvldYFP8a3tMdPRoCds0QAvD_BwE

That's not a recommended purchase site - just the first one that popped up in Google. 

The gauge I use is a 0-0.25" W.C. magnehelic gauge, plumbed with 1/4" copper tubing to a brass 1/4" O.D. / 1/8" MIP fitting that threads into a 3/8" hole drilled into my flue pipe. The same brass fitting attaches the tubing to the low pressure port on the back of the gauge.

I picked it up for about $40 used on eBay - I got used to them when working with the propane industry to create training programs and procedures. The magnehelic gauges are much more satisfying than manometers.


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> It's a 6" Field Controls Type RC baro: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-C...eJ78Gg5VNaZ_towm0vvldYFP8a3tMdPRoCds0QAvD_BwE
> 
> That's not a recommended purchase site - just the first one that popped up in Google.
> 
> The gauge I use is a 0-0.25" W.C. magnehelic gauge, plumbed with 1/4" copper tubing to a brass 1/4" O.D. / 1/8" MIP fitting that threads into a 3/8" hole drilled into my flue pipe. The same brass fitting attaches the tubing to the low pressure port on the back of the gauge.
> 
> I picked it up for about $40 used on eBay - I got used to them when working with the propane industry to create training programs and procedures. The magnehelic gauges are much more satisfying than manometers.


Thanks I might update to this! Seems like it would be better setup to deal with high draft!


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> It's a 6" Field Controls Type RC baro: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-C...eJ78Gg5VNaZ_towm0vvldYFP8a3tMdPRoCds0QAvD_BwE
> 
> That's not a recommended purchase site - just the first one that popped up in Google.


I recommend them...Supply House rocks! That's where I bought my last BD...normally next day delivery for me too! (And Matt78 is closer to them than I am, so...)


----------



## usernametaken

brenndatomu said:


> I recommend them...Supply House rocks! That's where I bought my last BD...normally next day delivery for me too! (And Matt78 is closer to them than I am, so...)




I agree. I've been buying all my HVAC filters, water filters, humidifier panels, and various HVAC repair parts from them for years... since back when they were called "Pex Supply." They offer almost _Amazon Prime_ type service and shipping.


----------



## SpaceBus

FixedGearFlyer said:


> It's a 6" Field Controls Type RC baro: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-C...eJ78Gg5VNaZ_towm0vvldYFP8a3tMdPRoCds0QAvD_BwE
> 
> That's not a recommended purchase site - just the first one that popped up in Google.
> 
> The gauge I use is a 0-0.25" W.C. magnehelic gauge, plumbed with 1/4" copper tubing to a brass 1/4" O.D. / 1/8" MIP fitting that threads into a 3/8" hole drilled into my flue pipe. The same brass fitting attaches the tubing to the low pressure port on the back of the gauge.
> 
> I picked it up for about $40 used on eBay - I got used to them when working with the propane industry to create training programs and procedures. The magnehelic gauges are much more satisfying than manometers.


I used to work in a parts room and I shipped those mag gauges out regularly, which meant I had to order them. The price new is eye watering!


----------



## Matt78

Got everything ordered! I'm falling in love with this thing already! Plenty of nice even heat in the house. Had a nice coal bed in the morning on a half load. House was 68 outside was in the 20's. Operating seems to be set it and forget it!


----------



## Matt78

Matt78 said:


> Got everything ordered! I'm falling in love with this thing already! Plenty of nice even heat in the house. Had a nice coal bed in the morning on a half load. House was 68 outside was in the 20's. Operating seems to be set it and forget it!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

SpaceBus said:


> I used to work in a parts room and I shipped those mag gauges out regularly, which meant I had to order them. The price new is eye watering!



For sure . . . Love me some eBay!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Lookin' good, Matt!

We had a full load burn yesterday and still had the fan cycling at 11pm. That makes for 13 hours of heat and a house that was between 70 and 72*F the whole time.


----------



## Matt78

This thing brings in combustion air through the ash pan box! I tell ya after running the T1, that is huge!!


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> This thing brings in combustion air through the ash pan box! I tell ya after running the T1, that is huge!!


I bet that came from the whole ash pan/CO issue on the early T1's...


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> I bet that came from the whole ash pan/CO issue on the early T1's...


Or the coal build up! T1 was horrible for that. My biggest knock on the T1


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Or the coal build up! T1 was horrible for that. My biggest knock on the T1


I guess I never had as much problem with that as some people did...I even set up the temp controller with the "coals burn down" feature, but never used it then.


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> I guess I never had as much problem with that as some people did...I even set up the temp controller with the "coals burn down" feature, but never used it then.


Yeah the control helped but it was hard to get any heat out of the thing. This HC has a large coal bed and flames coming out the coals when the t-stat is calling for heat. So it's still making good heat


----------



## SpaceBus

Matt78 said:


> Yeah the control helped but it was hard to get any heat out of the thing. This HC has a large coal bed and flames coming out the coals when the t-stat is calling for heat. So it's still making good heat


I'm surprised there aren't more updraft gassifiers out there. My cookstove takes in primary air from the ash pan and has two over fire air intakes. The air wash is adjustable but the rear over fire air is not, like most stoves.


----------



## trx250r87

I wonder if the grate will hold up to heat on the HC?


----------



## Gbawol42

Matt78 said:


> Yeah the control helped but it was hard to get any heat out of the thing. This HC has a large coal bed and flames coming out the coals when the t-stat is calling for heat. So it's still making good heat



This is an issue I currently face.  Not enough heat when burning down coals with the Heatmax 2.  Nice to see they changed things up.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

I've spent a disturbing amount of time peering in at the control shutters with a flashlight, trying to figure out the operating logic. 

It seems that the "grill" shutter that feeds the ash pan grate opens about 30% during a reload and initial firing, closes completely for the main part of the burn, then opens progressively once temps drop during the coaling phase.

The primary air shutter is a lot more active, handling most of the fine adjustment, while the secondary supply is always fully open.

Seems to work well, whatever they did! :-D


----------



## SpaceBus

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I've spent a disturbing amount of time peering in at the control shutters with a flashlight, trying to figure out the operating logic.
> 
> It seems that the "grill" shutter that feeds the ash pan grate opens about 30% during a reload and initial firing, closes completely for the main part of the burn, then opens progressively once temps drop during the coaling phase.
> 
> The primary air shutter is a lot more active, handling most of the fine adjustment, while the secondary supply is always fully open.
> 
> Seems to work well, whatever they did! :-D


Sounds like the way I run my cookstove, only using the bottom air to start the stove or when I'm down to coals and need to finish cooking or baking something. Sounds like an awesome setup and more automated than I expected.


----------



## Matt78

Here are some pics of the coals burning down. I filled this thing about 3/4 full around 8am!


----------



## Matt78

trx250r87 said:


> I wonder if the grate will hold up to heat on the HC?


As I took the firebricks out for moving into basement. I thought man the grate seems pretty hefty. Now I know why. If it doesn't I'm making one from a chunk of steel at work!


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> Here are some pics of the coals burning down. I filled this thing about 3/4 full around 8am!



I must be doing something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I get plenty of heat, more so than my T1, but I don't get a ton of secondary flames and my burn times are not super impressive every time. 

I have been experimenting with loading larger pieces of wood East/West at the back of the firebox and packing them right together, then a few loose pieces criss cross or log cabin style in front where I rake the hot coals. 

All has been great in this weather. I'm not trying to rush the cold weather but I excited to see what the HC can do when temps fall below zero!



Eric


----------



## Matt78

trx250r87 said:


> I must be doing something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I get plenty of heat, more so than my T1, but I don't get a ton of secondary flames and my burn times are not super impressive every time.
> 
> I have been experimenting with loading larger pieces of wood East/West at the back of the firebox and packing them right together, then a few loose pieces criss cross or log cabin style in front where I rake the hot coals.
> 
> All has been great in this weather. I'm not trying to rush the cold weather but I excited to see what the HC can do when temps fall below zero!
> 
> 
> 
> Eric


Is your wood good and dry? I'm sure you've checked it. Mine is around 15% to 17%. I get probably most secondary burn after temps are met in the house it seems. I'm sure we'll all figure this HC out better. I'm far from any kind of expert!


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I must be doing something wrong. Don't get me wrong, I get plenty of heat, more so than my T1, but I don't get a ton of secondary flames and my burn times are not super impressive every time.


There normally isn't much active flame left by the time you get to the coaling stage...a little bit sometimes...depends on wood species, and luck of the draw more than anything I'd say...it does seem like certain model stoves do have a greater tendency for it than others though too...


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> Is your wood good and dry? I'm sure you've checked it. Mine is around 15% to 17%. I get probably most secondary burn after temps are met in the house it seems. I'm sure we'll all figure this HC out better. I'm far from any kind of expert!


I would say it's as dry if not more dry as the wood I burnt in my T1 and it had awesome secondary flames! I have not measured it using the "free" moisture meter supplied with the HC. 

Eric


----------



## Matt78

trx250r87 said:


> I would say it's as dry if not more dry as the wood I burnt in my T1 and it had awesome secondary flames! I have not measured it using the "free" moisture meter supplied with the HC.
> 
> Eric


Haha I couldn't not use it!


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> Haha I couldn't not use it!



OK, I just grabbed a piece of super dry maple that I scored about a month ago. I split it with my trusty Fiskars X27 and measured the inside using the moisture meter supplied by SBI. As you can see by the photo 12.3% which is about as dry as it gets! This stuff starts with minimal kindling and effort yet my secondaries are nothing special. Heat output is great though and my manual key damper gets shut about 85%. 

Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> OK, I just grabbed a piece of super dry maple that I scored about a month ago. I split it with my trusty Fiskars X27 and measured the inside using the moisture meter supplied by SBI. As you can see by the photo 12.3% which is about as dry as it gets! This stuff starts with minimal kindling and effort yet my secondaries are nothing special. Heat output is great though and my manual key damper gets shut about 85%.
> 
> Eric



I'd still like to see you measure your draft numbers. Knowing what a change from -.06" W.C. to -.04" W.C. did for improving my secondary engagement and burn longevity, I would think your high heat/low secondary/short burn time issues could likely be over drafting, even if it's just a little high.


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I'd still like to see you measure your draft numbers. Knowing what a change from -.06" W.C. to -.04" W.C. did for improving my secondary engagement and burn longevity, I would think your high heat/low secondary/short burn time issues could likely be over drafting, even if it's just a little high.


Yup, a small adjustment can make a big difference when you actually have a manometer on it...here's one for under $30 shipped








						Dwyer Mark II Manometer  | eBay
					

<p>Dwyer Mark II Manometer. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail to lower 48 states only, no aluminum base see last picture</p>



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I'd still like to see you measure your draft numbers. Knowing what a change from -.06" W.C. to -.04" W.C. did for improving my secondary engagement and burn longevity, I would think your high heat/low secondary/short burn time issues could likely be over drafting, even if it's just a little high.


I was just thinking the same. My draft is around -.04 to -.05 probably closer to -.04 I did just notice I kept some coals around the grate after raking them. That made a huge difference for the secondaries when the air come from grate after pushing the green button!


----------



## Matt78

trx250r87 said:


> OK, I just grabbed a piece of super dry maple that I scored about a month ago. I split it with my trusty Fiskars X27 and measured the inside using the moisture meter supplied by SBI. As you can see by the photo 12.3% which is about as dry as it gets! This stuff starts with minimal kindling and effort yet my secondaries are nothing special. Heat output is great though and my manual key damper gets shut about 85%.
> 
> Eric


Yes that's nice and dry!!


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> OK, I just grabbed a piece of super dry maple that I scored about a month ago. I split it with my trusty Fiskars X27 and measured the inside using the moisture meter supplied by SBI. As you can see by the photo 12.3% which is about as dry as it gets! This stuff starts with minimal kindling and effort yet my secondaries are nothing special. Heat output is great though and my manual key damper gets shut about 85%.
> 
> Eric





Matt78 said:


> Yes that's nice and dry!!


Might be "too dry"...at least as far as getting good secondary burn later in the cycle...really dry wood tends to off-gas _hard_, right off the bat...then not so much later on...a big show, with no grand finale...


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> My be "too dry"...at least as far as getting good secondary burn later in the cycle...really dry wood tends to off-gas _hard_, right off the bat...then not so much later on...a big show, with no grand finale...


Well crap man!


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Well crap man!


Still makes great heat though!


----------



## Matt78

Eric

After I get my new manometer I'll give you my Dwyer mark II. Just pay for shipping and I'll send it to ya man!









						Dwyer Mark II Manometer  | eBay
					

<p>Dwyer Mark II Manometer. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail to lower 48 states only, no aluminum base see last picture</p>



					www.ebay.com


----------



## trx250r87

I have well seasoned red oak I have been mixing in as well. I do have a Dwyer Mark II connected after my manual damper and it reads super high, usually between .13" and .2".  I need to make another hole before the damper to get an accurate reading. 

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

Matt78 said:


> Here are some pics of the coals burning down. I filled this thing about 3/4 full around 8am!


I know you guys have fires going but I am intrigued about your grate and it letting air in.  Is there a chance someone could get a picture of what the grate looks like?  I'm curious if I could replace my plug with a grate and maybe crack my ashpan when I need the extra air on that last couple hours to get the coals to burn down and burn hotter.  I'm almost thinking close the damper and just use that so the air is lower and under the coals.....my minds moving to fast.


----------



## trx250r87

Gbawol42 said:


> I know you guys have fires going but I am intrigued about your grate and it letting air in.  Is there a chance someone could get a picture of what the grate looks like?  I'm curious if I could replace my plug with a grate and maybe crack my ashpan when I need the extra air on that last couple hours to get the coals to burn down and burn hotter.  I'm almost thinking close the damper and just use that so the air is lower and under the coals.....my minds moving to fast.



Take a look at the HC manual, it should have an exploded diagram and show the grate. It's moved back a little further than the plug on the T1. I'm guessing about 3"-4" wide by 5"-6" deep. Mine is way too hot to check. 


Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> I know you guys have fires going but I am intrigued about your grate and it letting air in.  Is there a chance someone could get a picture of what the grate looks like?  I'm curious if I could replace my plug with a grate and maybe crack my ashpan when I need the extra air on that last couple hours to get the coals to burn down and burn hotter.  I'm almost thinking close the damper and just use that so the air is lower and under the coals.....my minds moving to fast.


General rule of thumb...adding uncontrolled air through the grate is a bad idea...usually leads to stove damage sooner or later...it creates a forge like fire...very intense...can crack/melt grates easily...among a long list of other possible damage.
Get to thinking about it...that's part of the reason why the nice "secondary" looking flames in Matt's pics...air from under the fire tends to do that more so than air over fire...think about the dancing blue flames you get with coal...air under fire, burning coal gasses...mesmerizing...


----------



## Matt78

Gbawol42 said:


> I know you guys have fires going but I am intrigued about your grate and it letting air in.  Is there a chance someone could get a picture of what the grate looks like?  I'm curious if I could replace my plug with a grate and maybe crack my ashpan when I need the extra air on that last couple hours to get the coals to burn down and burn hotter.  I'm almost thinking close the damper and just use that so the air is lower and under the coals.....my minds moving to fast.


Here ya go!


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> Here ya go!


Here's a photo from my break-in fire before I hauled it into the basement. The grate almost looks offset a little to the right. 

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> General rule of thumb...adding uncontrolled air through the grate is a bad idea...usually leads to stove damage sooner or later...it creates a forge like fire...very intense...can crack/melt grates easily...among a long list of other possible damage.
> Get to thinking about it...that's part of the reason why the nice "secondary" looking flames in Matt's pics...air from under the fire tends to do that more so than air over fire...think about the dancing blue flames you get with coal...air under fire, burning coal gasses...mesmerizing...



Yeah, well it was a quick thought and of course the bad things didn't come to mind, haha.  

Always thinking of what I can do to make my stove more efficient.


----------



## laynes69

I'm jealous lol! I'd love to try the new furnace, but with tightening the house it's made a big difference for us. I loaded at 9pm last night and 9am had enough coals to get the furnace going. 30 degrees out and 72 after 12 hours. I'd love to have an automated furnace, but I cannot complain as the house gets tighter. The new furnace sounds very impressive!


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> This is an issue I currently face.  Not enough heat when burning down coals with the Heatmax 2.  Nice to see they changed things up.


I can't remember, do you have the speed control added on? That can make a big difference in maximizing the heat at the end of the fire when the blower starts to cycle on/off...it really helps keep the house from cooling off so fast before the next load can be put in...I expected that it was going to help...but I wasn't expecting how much it helped.


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> I'd love to have an automated furnace,


You still have the option of adding the temp controller setup...makes it "load n go", it really does...


----------



## laynes69

brenndatomu said:


> You still have the option of adding the temp controller setup...makes it "load n go", it really does...


I should, it's just the wiring scares me lol! Coming from someone who put a 200 amp box in the home. What's would be the cost? I should just have you put one together and I'll install it lol.


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> I should, it's just the wiring scares me lol! Coming from someone who put a 200 amp box in the home. What's would be the cost? I should just have you put one together and I'll install it lol.


Under $100 for parts I'd say...and that's even with upgrading to a Auber controller, instead of the Mypins many of us used...I'd help ya with it, no problem...it's really not that hard at all...heck, I'd even drive over for the install if I can break away for a few hours some Saturday....


----------



## laynes69

Hmmmm. Sounds like a plan! I'll get ahold of you here in the future.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Matt78 said:


> I was just thinking the same. My draft is around -.04 to -.05 probably closer to -.04 I did just notice I kept some coals around the grate after raking them. That made a huge difference for the secondaries when the air come from grate after pushing the green button!



Are you hitting the reload button outside of actual reloads? That would definitely open the grill shutter outside of the logic parameters (which we don't know because SBI doesn't seem keen to share them).

If you're doing that, what is your intent and outcome?


----------



## Matt78

laynes69 said:


> I'm jealous lol! I'd love to try the new furnace, but with tightening the house it's made a big difference for us. I loaded at 9pm last night and 9am had enough coals to get the furnace going. 30 degrees out and 72 after 12 hours. I'd love to have an automated furnace, but I cannot complain as the house gets tighter. The new furnace sounds very impressive!


I was going to tighten ours up, now I'm not to sure! Lol


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Are you hitting the reload button outside of actual reloads? That would definitely open the grill shutter outside of the logic parameters (which we don't know because SBI doesn't seem keen to share them).
> 
> If you're doing that, what is your intent and outcome?


I've tried this and the light flashes at you and nothing happens. I think they've thought of people doing this. Probably a good thing!


----------



## Matt78

Wear a





brenndatomu said:


> Under $100 for parts I'd say...and that's even with upgrading to a Auber controller, instead of the Mypins many of us used...I'd help ya with it, no problem...it's really not that hard at all...heck, I'd even drive over for the install if I can break away for a few hours some Saturday....


 Wear a Mask! Haha


----------



## Matt78

Matt78 said:


> I was just thinking the same. My draft is around -.04 to -.05 probably closer to -.04 I did just notice I kept some coals around the grate after raking them. That made a huge difference for the secondaries when the air come from grate after pushing the green button!


Fixedgearflyer this was on a normal load. light was off indicating a relight. I left coals around grate at begging of load.


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Eric
> 
> After I get my new manometer I'll give you my Dwyer mark II. Just pay for shipping and I'll send it to ya man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dwyer Mark II Manometer  | eBay
> 
> 
> <p>Dwyer Mark II Manometer. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail to lower 48 states only, no aluminum base see last picture</p>
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


It costs about $6-8 to ship them USPS first class with tracking and $50 insurance...I had a whole box of them (NOS) I sold on here some years back...shipped them all over the country...I think the highest shipping cost was $8.50-8.75....something like that...and that one had a long ride...


----------



## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> I can't remember, do you have the speed control added on? That can make a big difference in maximizing the heat at the end of the fire when the blower starts to cycle on/off...it really helps keep the house from cooling off so fast before the next load can be put in...I expected that it was going to help...but I wasn't expecting how much it helped.



No, that is probably the only mod I haven't done.   With the 4 speed blower on the Heatmax 2 I wasn't really sure how to wire this one up.  Seemed a little more intimidating than the temp controller.


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> Under $100 for parts I'd say...and that's even with upgrading to a Auber controller, instead of the Mypins many of us used...I'd help ya with it, no problem...it's really not that hard at all...heck, I'd even drive over for the install if I can break away for a few hours some Saturday....


I might sell my controller if someone's interested? I Might put my T1 back to factory. Especially if I sell the T1


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> I might sell my controller if someone's interested? I Might put my T1 back to factory. Especially if I sell the T1


They sell better with mods intact...I didn't even advertise mine, someone on here found out that I was selling it, that was that.
He just text me a few weeks back after firing up for the first time this fall...they still love it!


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> They sell better with mods intact...I didn't even advertise mine, someone on here found out that I was selling it, that was that.
> He just text me a few weeks back after firing up for the first time this fall...they still love it!


How ya put the word out? I'll sell my whole unit if someones interested


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> No, that is probably the only mod I haven't done.   With the 4 speed blower on the Heatmax 2 I wasn't really sure how to wire this one up.  Seemed a little more intimidating than the temp controller.


Its been done...not having done it myself I will leave the details to someone else...if nobody volunteers, PM me, I'll hook you up with someone that's done it.


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> How ya put the word out? I'll sell my whole unit if someones interested


Just like that...it just came up in a reply I made somewhere, next thing I know...
I did have the cracks welded before it left...I never fooled with them while it was installed.


----------



## trx250r87

I sold my T1 on Facebook Marketplace a few weeks back, right after my Heat Commander arrived. The guy had a tree trimming business so I'm sure he had all the free green wood he wanted. I cautioned him on burning anything even remotely green and went over how newer EPA furnaces worked compared to old smoke dragons. 
 A few days later he messaged me and said he showed up to his work shop at the end of the day and the whole shop was full of smoke!

Eric


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> I've tried this and the light flashes at you and nothing happens. I think they've thought of people doing this. Probably a good thing!



There might be an update from SBI that allows you to reload when the green light is still on and it temporarily shuts off the blower fan to reduce smoke spillage and ash mess...

Eric


----------



## sloeffle

brenndatomu said:


> Under $100 for parts I'd say...and that's even with upgrading to a Auber controller, instead of the Mypins many of us used...I'd help ya with it, no problem...it's really not that hard at all...heck, I'd even drive over for the install if I can break away for a few hours some Saturday....


If you guys do that, and @laynes69 doesn't care I'd like to watch you set it up. I've never been able to get mine working on my Caddy like they did on the T1. Is the Auber controller a lot easier to understand / setup ?


----------



## Gearhead660

I have an Auber 200 that I just put on the wood stove and it is a lot easier to set up...if this is the one others are using on their furnaces.


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> Is the Auber controller a lot easier to understand / setup ?


Looks like it to me...when I first setup the Mypin, I really struggled with that skimpy "chinglish" manual...


----------



## sloeffle

Gearhead660 said:


> I have an Auber 200 that I just put on the wood stove and it is a lot easier to set up...if this is the one others are using on their furnaces.


Do you have a link to what you bought ? I found Auber's web site but I am clueless ( IT nerd here ) to what I might need.


----------



## laynes69

sloeffle said:


> If you guys do that, and @laynes69 doesn't care I'd like to watch you set it up. I've never been able to get mine working on my Caddy like they did on the T1. Is the Auber controller a lot easier to understand / setup ?


It may not be for a bit....I'll have to talk to the wife lol.


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> Do you have a link to what you bought ? I found Auber's web site but I am clueless ( IT nerd here ) to what I might need.


These are the ones I was looking at...





						Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller [SYL-2362] - $41.25 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller [SYL-2362] - Product Note: If you want to use this controller to drive multiple (3 or more) single phase AC SSRs, or a 3-phase SSR, please contact us or leave a note with your order.  This temperature controller offers great...



					www.auberins.com
				








						1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - $42.98 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry
					

Auber Instruments, Inc. 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - This is a dual display 1/16 DIN size (1.89x1.89" or 48 x 48 mm) temperature/process controller. Common applications of this controller include temperature control of industrial equipment, laboratory equipment...



					www.auberins.com


----------



## Gearhead660

Those look to be the Mypin equivalent.


----------



## andym

Looks a lot like the Inkbird I have. If that limit control is separate from the alarms it would be very useful as a way to kill power to the draft solenoid when the fire is out. 
One complaint I have about my Inkbird is that there is only one hysteresis setting and it applies to both outputs.


----------



## brenndatomu

Gearhead660 said:


> Those look to be the Mypin equivalent.


I doubt that...I'm sure its way better...although the Mypins have been decent, especially considering the price...my guess is the Mypin is the Chinese knockoff of the Auber...


----------



## Greg46m

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I've spent a disturbing amount of time peering in at the control shutters with a flashlight, trying to figure out the operating logic.
> 
> It seems that the "grill" shutter that feeds the ash pan grate opens about 30% during a reload and initial firing, closes completely for the main part of the burn, then opens progressively once temps drop during the coaling phase.
> 
> The primary air shutter is a lot more active, handling most of the fine adjustment, while the secondary supply is always fully open.
> 
> Seems to work well, whatever they did! :-D


Based on what you've described here, I think I have an issue with my controller. I've been burning fires daily for 2+ weeks now, using small splits (2-3") that I had split for my fireplace, having to reload every 3-5 hours. Sometimes on a reload I'll press the button and the shutters will open appropriately, but many times they don't respond at all, especially in the morning when the fire is gone from over night and the firebox is cool. I'll find the fire grate shutter completely closed and the primary shutter is sometimes open and sometimes 90% closed. Makes me wonder if it's working as optimally as it could during the burn as well. A power cycle seems to fix this every time and I can get a fire to take off just fine. The first email to SBI was answered quickly with questions about the status of the green light and saying that they may not respond if the firebox is already hot, but subsequent emails over the last 2 weeks haven't seen a response. Might be time for a phone call tomorrow.

Other than that, the furnace seems to burn real nice. I got a Fields BD installed over the weekend along with the Dwyer manometer and I've been able to get the draft dialed in pretty good. What others have mentioned about seeing a big difference between .04 and .06 is true, my flue temps steadied around 200 and I got a longer burn just by dialing it down to .04. I was worried about my masonry lined chimney on the outside of the house being able to generate enough draft, but there is around .10 with the damper closed tight, so plenty of room to work with on it. Even on cold starts there is enough draft to get a fire started without smoke spillage.


----------



## trx250r87

Greg46m said:


> Based on what you've described here, I think I have an issue with my controller. I've been burning fires daily for 2+ weeks now, using small splits (2-3") that I had split for my fireplace, having to reload every 3-5 hours. Sometimes on a reload I'll press the button and the shutters will open appropriately, but many times they don't respond at all, especially in the morning when the fire is gone from over night and the firebox is cool. I'll find the fire grate shutter completely closed and the primary shutter is sometimes open and sometimes 90% closed. Makes me wonder if it's working as optimally as it could during the burn as well. A power cycle seems to fix this every time and I can get a fire to take off just fine. The first email to SBI was answered quickly with questions about the status of the green light and saying that they may not respond if the firebox is already hot, but subsequent emails over the last 2 weeks haven't seen a response. Might be time for a phone call tomorrow.
> 
> Other than that, the furnace seems to burn real nice. I got a Fields BD installed over the weekend along with the Dwyer manometer and I've been able to get the draft dialed in pretty good. What others have mentioned about seeing a big difference between .04 and .06 is true, my flue temps steadied around 200 and I got a longer burn just by dialing it down to .04. I was worried about my masonry lined chimney on the outside of the house being able to generate enough draft, but there is around .10 with the damper closed tight, so plenty of room to work with on it. Even on cold starts there is enough draft to get a fire started without smoke spillage.


Sounds exactly like the issues I experienced at first! If you unplug power to the furnace it will reset and all should work as it should. Ask SBI if they can give you a firmware update for this. I have tried 5 different versions with the latest version working pretty well for me. 

Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

This morning, I threw in a medium load of chunks, punks, and uglies, which aren't as dry as my splits. My firestarting was a bit rushed because I had hungry kiddos upstairs, so I threw in a match and dashed off. 

20 minutes later, I came back to answer customer emails while sitting next to the furnace.

Today, the fire is struggling (because of the low quality wood) and it's impressive watching the furnace deal with it. As the fire starts to fade, the furnace senses it, then fully opens the primary shutter and about 1/3 of the grill shutter. 

The fire starts to move and about 4 or 5 minutes later, the furnace closes the grill shutter and drops the primary shutter to a bit less than half. 

Because this load of wood sucks, the fire slowly fades, the furnace senses it, and the process repeats.

I'd love to stay and see how the story ends (Will the Heat Commander manage to get good secondaries and a hot fire out of these punky, gnarled reject chunks?), but I have to get out to the shop and sew Christmas orders. I'm now wishing I had a camera pointed at the window of the loading door and a readout of the shutter positions so I could watch while I work . . .


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Yup! The furnace won. I had to run back in the house to print a couple of patterns and checked the fire while I was there. Voila!


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Today, the fire is struggling (because of the low quality wood) and it's impressive watching the furnace deal with it. As the fire starts to fade, the furnace senses it, then fully opens the primary shutter and about 1/3 of the grill shutter.


Nice!
A much more refined version of the temp sensor mod on the T1 & II...except this doesn't "run out of time" like the mod could...


----------



## SpaceBus

I'm actually very impressed with this product. I guess it is a matter of time before all wood stoves have similar controls, cat or not. Perhaps it is not a bad thing.


----------



## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Yup! The furnace won. I had to run back in the house to print a couple of patterns and checked the fire while I was there. Voila!



Welcome to the 21st century!


----------



## Greg46m

trx250r87 said:


> Sounds exactly like the issues I experienced at first! If you unplug power to the furnace it will reset and all should work as it should. Ask SBI if they can give you a firmware update for this. I have tried 5 different versions with the latest version working pretty well for me.
> 
> Eric


Happy to report that I received a response the day after posting this with the file and directions attached to perform the update you mentioned. Furnace now responds as I would expect every time I press Start. Another feature they must have added since the version mine shipped with is to shut off the blower when you press the Start button. Furnace is running great and I think getting longer burns from each load with more even stack temps throughout the duration of the burn.

I've also done like FixedGearFlyer has done and thrown a bucket of "junk" (basically all the bark and splinters I scooped up from under the log splitter) over a bed of coals to get some free heat for a few hours and it burned it just fine.


----------



## trx250r87




----------



## maple1

Sounds like I've been pronouncing Drolet wrong...


----------



## JRHAWK9

maple1 said:


> Sounds like I've been pronouncing Drolet wrong...



I thought the same thing.  What French-Canadian company would pronounce Drolet with a hard 'T'?  Maybe the video was done by an American marketing company who mis-pronounced it.    Or they made the video specific for the American demographic and didn't want to tip their hat to being French-Canadian and "mis-pronounced" it on purpose to appeal to us Americans.    Or maybe, just maybe, the accurate pronunciation is actually indeed Dro-leT.


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


>



Is it me, or does the ATV scene at the end seem kinda random?


JRHAWK9 said:


> Or maybe, just maybe, the accurate pronunciation is actually indeed Dro-leT.


Man, I was sure it is pronounced Dro-lay...


----------



## moresnow

brenndatomu said:


> Is it me, or does the ATV scene at the end seem kinda random?
> 
> Man, I was sure it is pronounced Dro-lay...



Ditto on both topics. I am now  google searching for the new Drolet 4 wheeler hmmmmm


----------



## SBI_Nick

Hi, another update on few more concerns


Duct clearance
_We are still doing continuous testing and improvement, as some of you have mentioned it has been determined that an error has slipped into the owner's manual. Supply duct clearances should have been 1 "instead of 0" after the first foot and along the length of the duct._


Barometric damper and draft
_In every furnace we made we recommend  a maximum draft of 0.06’’, the nice thing with the automation is that in case things get crazy the shutter will be closed and prevent over firing. Having a damper properly adjusted will prevent overfire, premature wear, better heat transfer, ensure longer burn time and better combustion.  *We do recommend it*, with our experience 0,06’’ in a 6-inch diameter chimney it is the right value for almost every installation and wood (type, humidity, …). What I mean is if you have really dry would 0.04'' is probably sufficient, but this isn’t the case for most of the users. Another thing that is important to get a good efficiency is also to have the right plenum static pressure._


Coal burner/ Air through the grate
_This a new function which we are really excited about, it is a big improvement over the Tundra. Coal build up was a complaint from users, adding this feature reduce the coal build up and increase heat output delivery at the end of the burn, in order word it increases overall efficiency._

Reload button Update

_Like we have discussed about it previously, the furnace will not react the same way if you press the button when it is cold or hot. According to internal temperature it will determine what is the best thing to do, you will probably hear the shutters move and adjust to obtain optimal combustion. I think most of view have received the software update, in this new software we have implement feature which disable blower for a period while you are loading. This should prevent smoke spillage_

Thanks,

Nicolas


----------



## Highbeam

So impressive to see and be made aware of real time design upgrades.


----------



## Gbawol42

I keep going back and forth upgrading my Heatmax 2, but man a couple of these upgrades sound amazing!


----------



## sloeffle

Gbawol42 said:


> I keep going back and forth upgrading my Heatmax 2, but man a couple of these upgrades sound amazing!


I agree, some of the new bells and whistles would be nice to have.


----------



## brenndatomu

Uh oh...new furnace fever...I heard that is a symptom of CV19...


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Uh oh...new furnace fever...I heard that is a symptom of CV19...



COVID was part of the reason I decided to upgrade this year. I spent more time  cutting firewood and will be home more to install, tinker and burn!

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> COVID was part of the reason I decided to upgrade this year. I spent more time  cutting firewood and will be home more to install, tinker and burn!
> 
> Eric



Haha I hear ya.  I have 3 seasons worth c/s/s now, which isn't a bad thing.


----------



## laynes69

trx250r87 said:


> COVID was part of the reason I decided to upgrade this year. I spent more time  cutting firewood and will be home more to install, tinker and burn!
> 
> Eric


Not us! The company I work for is working on the vaccine and compounds, and my wife is an ICU nurse fighting on the frontline! Been busy for the both of us!


----------



## brenndatomu

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi, another update on few more concerns
> 
> 
> Duct clearance
> _We are still doing continuous testing and improvement, as some of you have mentioned it has been determined that an error has slipped into the owner's manual. Supply duct clearances should have been 1 "instead of 0" after the first foot and along the length of the duct._
> 
> 
> Barometric damper and draft
> _In every furnace we made we recommend  a maximum draft of 0.06’’, the nice thing with the automation is that in case things get crazy the shutter will be closed and prevent over firing. Having a damper properly adjusted will prevent overfire, premature wear, better heat transfer, ensure longer burn time and better combustion.  *We do recommend it*, with our experience 0,06’’ in a 6-inch diameter chimney it is the right value for almost every installation and wood (type, humidity, …). What I mean is if you have really dry would 0.04'' is probably sufficient, but this isn’t the case for most of the users. Another thing that is important to get a good efficiency is also to have the right plenum static pressure._
> 
> 
> Coal burner/ Air through the grate
> _This a new function which we are really excited about, it is a big improvement over the Tundra. Coal build up was a complaint from users, adding this feature reduce the coal build up and increase heat output delivery at the end of the burn, in order word it increases overall efficiency._
> 
> Reload button Update
> 
> _Like we have discussed about it previously, the furnace will not react the same way if you press the button when it is cold or hot. According to internal temperature it will determine what is the best thing to do, you will probably hear the shutters move and adjust to obtain optimal combustion. I think most of view have received the software update, in this new software we have implement feature which disable blower for a period while you are loading. This should prevent smoke spillage_
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nicolas


So I assume the Heat Commander is just the first of the new fleet of smart wood furnaces to come...Heatpro, Heatpack, the Caddy line?


----------



## usernametaken

I'm curious to know the same and also if a larger size like the Max Caddy will come along and meet the 2020 standard. I saw on the EPA's site that the Caddy Advanced  and Caddy Advanced CR were approved so they must be around the corner although they are not on PSG's site yet. No mention of the difference between the two on the EPA's list. I wonder if one is larger or if the CR indicates a dual fuel unit like the previous Caddy combo units or...?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> So I assume the Heat Commander is just the first of the new fleet of smart wood furnaces to come...Heatpro, Heatpack, the Caddy line?



There may or may not be a number of other SBI-family furnaces listed in the firmware binary file for the Heat Commander... ;-)


----------



## Matt78

Question: does the fields baro negatively effect the draft when it's calm out and outside temps is around 40 degrees? In these conditions I barely get -.04. I added some chimney pipe and now it's just under -.05. Will adding the baro drop that any?


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> Question: does the fields baro negatively effect the draft when it's calm out and outside temps is around 40 degrees? In these conditions I barely get -.04. I added some chimney pipe and now it's just under -.05. Will adding the baro drop that any?


No...if the draft is less than your setpoint, the flap will be closed...or very nearly so.
I tried running without a baro to see if my warm weather draft went up...didn't notice a difference, and missed having the baro, so next chance I had I put it back in.
My sister has a shorter chimney than I do and her draft is normally not overkill...so she keeps the baro opening covered with HD aluminum foil until there is a windy or exceptionally cold day that seems to warrant some draft control. Keeping it covered is not an attempt at raising the draft as much as it is to limit creosote...she seems to have problems getting the whole family to grasp "only bring in the DRY firewood" and the chimney shows it sometimes...usually calls me several times a winter with "my furnace isn't working good"...my first reponse is always "are you feeding it dry wood?!" which I generally get a "I dunno"


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> No...if the draft is less than your setpoint, the flap will be closed...or very nearly so.
> I tried running without a baro to see if my warm weather draft went up...didn't notice a difference, and missed having the baro, so next chance I had I put it back in.
> My sister has a shorter chimney than I do and her draft is normally not overkill...so she keeps the baro opening covered with HD aluminum foil until there is a windy or exceptionally cold day that seems to warrant some draft control. Keeping it covered is not an attempt at raising the draft as much as it is to limit creosote...she seems to have problems getting the whole family to grasp "only bring in the DRY firewood" and the chimney shows it sometimes...usually calls me several times a winter with "my furnace isn't working good"...my first reponse is always "are you feeding it dry wood?!" which I generally get a "I dunno"


That sounds good! Wish the weather would stay cold! We had to shut it down the last three days! Haha dang kids! That would drive me crazy!

When installing the fields baro. Can it fit into a double wall T. Or do I need to cut a hole into a straight double wall pipe and attach it with the T kit that comes with the baro. Never used one or seen one in action. Sorry for the newbie questions!


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> When installing the fields baro. Can it fit into a double wall T. Or do I need to cut a hole into a straight double wall pipe and attach it with the T kit that comes with the baro. Never used one or seen one in action. Sorry for the newbie questions!


I would think it would slip into a doublewall tee...probably...might depend on the brand somewhat? I myself have never used doublewall on the furnace...I have a little amish metal shop near here that makes 4' long stainless singlewall for about the same price as most stores sell that junk clip together 2' long steel stuff...I just wrap it with some spare chimney liner insulation to help keep it warm like doublewall does.
Do not try to cut into the doublewall...I don't think their collar adapter would fit the DW's larger OD, plus the air gap between the inner and outer layer would be an uncontrolled air leak...not to mention a potential place for soot/creosote to accumulate...and that would be almost impossible to clean out.


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> I would think it would slip into a doublewall tee...probably...might depend on the brand somewhat? I myself have never used doublewall on the furnace...I have a little amish metal shop near here that makes 4' long stainless singlewall for about the same price as most stores sell that junk clip together 2' long steel stuff...I just wrap it with some spare chimney liner insulation to help keep it warm like doublewall does.
> Do not try to cut into the doublewall...I don't think their collar adapter would fit the DW's larger OD, plus the air gap between the inner and outer layer would be an uncontrolled air leak...not to mention a potential place for soot/creosote to accumulate...and that would be almost impossible to clean out.


Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> I would think it would slip into a doublewall tee...probably...might depend on the brand somewhat? I myself have never used doublewall on the furnace...I have a little amish metal shop near here that makes 4' long stainless singlewall for about the same price as most stores sell that junk clip together 2' long steel stuff...I just wrap it with some spare chimney liner insulation to help keep it warm like doublewall does.
> Do not try to cut into the doublewall...I don't think their collar adapter would fit the DW's larger OD, plus the air gap between the inner and outer layer would be an uncontrolled air leak...not to mention a potential place for soot/creosote to accumulate...and that would be almost impossible to clean out.


What you think? It's set on the inner tube of the DW. Maybe some high temp caulk and some HVAC tape on the outside. Looks like the T I took off. The selkirk DW is also SS.


----------



## brenndatomu

Matt78 said:


> What you think? It's set on the inner tube of the DW. Maybe some high temp caulk and some HVAC tape on the outside. Looks like the T I took off. The selkirk DW is also SS.


Looks good from here!   
If you are happy with the way its fitted up, then roll!
That was probably a PITA to cut out, no? Especially being SS...


----------



## KaleRortvedt

Greg46m said:


> Hey everyone, first I just wanted to say thanks to everybody that contributes to this site. I found the forums last winter when I started looking at buying a cheap Shelter model at Menards. Thankfully I came here first and was quickly educated on how much I probably shouldn't do that.
> 
> The idea for a wood furnace came back to mind a few days ago and I started looking and researching again and I think I'll be clicking BUY on one of these Wood Commanders very soon. I can only hope that they learned from some of the pains with the early Tundra's and there won't be cracking problems with this model. Hopefully one of you guys are able to get yours installed and have it running for a few days to be able to speak to the performance.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone mention it on here yet but when I looked at Drolet's website, I see they have a $300 rebate available if you purchase a Wood Commander before the end of this month. I also saw a link on MFP's website to a $300 Tax Credit that is available as well, which takes the price of this thing down to $1999.
> 
> Looking forward to everything that the new Heat Commander owners have to say about them!


I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me concerned enough to never run it again. I've been following this thread for a while and waiting to pull the trigger on the HC. We currently have a Drolet Myriad II on our main floor and it performs great. Just not enough to heat our entire 3700sqft ranch home. And with all the work I put into running a chimney from the basement through the roof, I'd like to find a unit I can swap it out with


----------



## Matt78

brenndatomu said:


> Looks good from here!
> If you are happy with the way its fitted up, then roll!
> That was probably a PITA to cut out, no? Especially being SS...


10 minutes with the dremel! 4 rivets and flip the tabs! Dang T was like $60, but just went for it. Haha


----------



## brenndatomu

KaleRortvedt said:


> I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me concerned enough to never run it again. I've been following this thread for a while and waiting to pull the trigger on the HC. We currently have a Drolet Myriad II on our main floor and it performs great. Just not enough to heat our entire 3700sqft ranch home. And with all the work I put into running a chimney from the basement through the roof, I'd like to find a unit I can swap it out with


Dang, I wish y'all would gang up and file a class action suit against HY-C on those things! The EPA has determined their 2020 test was bogus, and yet they are still selling them...I don't get it! Now that I think about it... sounds a lot like a recent election...


----------



## Gbawol42

KaleRortvedt said:


> I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me concerned enough to never run it again. I've been following this thread for a while and waiting to pull the trigger on the HC. We currently have a Drolet Myriad II on our main floor and it performs great. Just not enough to heat our entire 3700sqft ranch home. And with all the work I put into running a chimney from the basement through the roof, I'd like to find a unit I can swap it out with



Wow that door has to be scorching hot to be glowing that red.  Thats crazy!


----------



## trx250r87

KaleRortvedt said:


> I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me concerned enough to never run it again. I've been following this thread for a while and waiting to pull the trigger on the HC. We currently have a Drolet Myriad II on our main floor and it performs great. Just not enough to heat our entire 3700sqft ranch home. And with all the work I put into running a chimney from the basement through the roof, I'd like to find a unit I can swap it out with


Sell that POS Shelter. Feel free to check out my Heat Commander if you get North.

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> Wow that door has to be scorching hot to be glowing that red.  Thats crazy!


1200-1400* F is my guess...


----------



## KaleRortvedt

Gbawol42 said:


> Wow that door has to be scorching hot to be glowing that red.  Thats crazy!


Yeah I think I could have used it as a forge! I dampened everything down and couldn't wait until that fire went out. Stood there with an extinguisher.


----------



## KaleRortvedt

trx250r87 said:


> Sell that POS Shelter. Feel free to check out my Heat Commander if you get North.
> 
> Eric


Hey thanks, Eric! I might have to take you up on your offer seeing as you may not be just too far away. I don't even know if I could sell it to someone knowing that its a hazard. I also have recently read all the posts (hundreds) on the shelter thread. Scary sh*t!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

KaleRortvedt said:


> I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me ...



WHOA! What maddness is that... 

That's a very warm furnace.


----------



## Case1030

brenndatomu said:


> Dang, I wish y'all would gang up and file a class action suit against HY-C on those things! The EPA has determined their 2020 test was bogus, and yet they are still selling them...I don't get it! Now that I think about it... sounds a lot like a recent election...



Without getting into a debate with others. I agree something really fishy is going on!!


----------



## Matt78

KaleRortvedt said:


> I wish I had found this forum sooner as I had already purchased the shelter furnace. Installed it and ran it a few times. Its finicky to say the least and a glowing orange door and smoke entering the room had me concerned enough to never run it again. I've been following this thread for a while and waiting to pull the trigger on the HC. We currently have a Drolet Myriad II on our main floor and it performs great. Just not enough to heat our entire 3700sqft ranch home. And with all the work I put into running a chimney from the basement through the roof, I'd like to find a unit I can swap it out with


Dang man sorry to read this! How can they sell these junk ass furnaces?


----------



## andym

Matt78 said:


> How can they sell these junk furnaces?


I walked past one at Menards today. Until the EPA makes the call and enforces it there will be many unknowing people who will purchase one thinking they just 'saved big money at Menards!'


----------



## brenndatomu

andym said:


> I walked past one at Menards today. Until the EPA makes the call and enforces it there will be many unknowing people who will purchase one thinking they just 'saved big money at Menards!'


And every other tomdicknharry store too...cuz its the only elcheapo furnace left! Too bad they are such POS!


----------



## Gbawol42

Don't know much about the Caddy line, but this popped up on Facebook this morning. Are these the new models?


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> Don't know much about the Caddy line, but this popped up on Facebook this morning. Are these the new models?
> 
> View attachment 269438


That looks like last years model


----------



## Matt78

Gbawol42 said:


> Don't know much about the Caddy line, but this popped up on Facebook this morning. Are these the new models?
> 
> View attachment 269438


Im guessing they'll look like the HC? Air controls on the back of the furnace.


----------



## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> That looks like last years model



Thats why I asked, got tricked by them saying next generation models


----------



## usernametaken

Their site still doesn't show the Caddy Advanced. It's been approved so it shouldn't be long.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

More updates. If I'm being too "update-y," say so and I'll keep to myself. 

TLDR summary: 13 hour burns with even heat leave us impressed. I watched a pretty good back puff through the baro damper when the furnace reestablished secondaries yesterday.

Long burn times and even heat:

We've finally got proper cold weather and have found a rhythm with the Heat Commander. With our Tundra, we used to burn three to four medium loads through the day - morning, lunch, evening, and -if it was really cold - bedtime. That helped us spread the heat through the day rather than blasting for 3 hours, tapering off, and ending with us desperately trying to get rid of a thick coal bed so we could reload. 

The Heat Commander is vastly improved. We've been lighting one full load around 8am . . . And that's it. The heat output is amazingly even and our house is sitting at 70* (with the tstat set to 68*) for 12 to 13 hours every day. At 8 pm, the blower is still cycling and holding the temp, though if we were in the single digits, it would be losing ground. So far, we haven't done any reloads because we like a cooler house for sleeping and let it drop to about 60* overnight. 

We now spend about 10 minutes per day with the furnace. We clean out the previous fire's ash, load the box, light it off, wait about 60 seconds, close the door . . . And enjoy even heat for 12 hours. 

Back puffing through the baro:

I came into the house and sat by the furnace while eating lunch yesterday. It was about 4 hours in and there were nice, lazy secondaries over very chared splits. While I was watching, the furnace lost the secondaries and I could hear the shutters adjusting to get them back. 

Over a 3 or 4 minute period, the shutters incrementally opened, the charred splits began to glow bright red, and, finally, flame returned. 

When it did, all of the gasses in the firebox ignited with an impressive "whump!" and a sizable puff of smoke blew out of the baro damper. I can't blame the furnace for that - it did a great job of managing the burn. I also can't blame my baro - without it, my 30-some foot masonry chimney would be an overdrafting monster. 

We haven't noticed any smoke smell in the house since installing the HC, but we'll be sure to keep sniffing and report back if we discover the baro-puffs to be common. 

Overall, this thing is wonderful. We're warmer, more comfortable, spend a fraction of the time having to monitor or stoke the furnace, and have burned about 30% less wood than usual (though it's also been a mild winter). I feel like the furnace is burning more efficiently and also getting a lot more of the heat into the house than the Tundra 1 did.


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> More updates. If I'm being too "update-y," say so and I'll keep to myself.
> 
> TLDR summary: 13 hour burns with even heat leave us impressed. I watched a pretty good back puff through the baro damper when the furnace reestablished secondaries yesterday.
> 
> Long burn times and even heat:
> 
> We've finally got proper cold weather and have found a rhythm with the Heat Commander. With our Tundra, we used to burn three to four medium loads through the day - morning, lunch, evening, and -if it was really cold - bedtime. That helped us spread the heat through the day rather than blasting for 3 hours, tapering off, and ending with us desperately trying to get rid of a thick coal bed so we could reload.
> 
> The Heat Commander is vastly improved. We've been lighting one full load around 8am . . . And that's it. The heat output is amazingly even and our house is sitting at 70* (with the tstat set to 68*) for 12 to 13 hours every day. At 8 pm, the blower is still cycling and holding the temp, though if we were in the single digits, it would be losing ground. So far, we haven't done any reloads because we like a cooler house for sleeping and let it drop to about 60* overnight.
> 
> We now spend about 10 minutes per day with the furnace. We clean out the previous fire's ash, load the box, light it off, wait about 60 seconds, close the door . . . And enjoy even heat for 12 hours.
> 
> Back puffing through the baro:
> 
> I came into the house and sat by the furnace while eating lunch yesterday. It was about 4 hours in and there were nice, lazy secondaries over very chared splits. While I was watching, the furnace lost the secondaries and I could hear the shutters adjusting to get them back.
> 
> Over a 3 or 4 minute period, the shutters incrementally opened, the charred splits began to glow bright red, and, finally, flame returned.
> 
> When it did, all of the gasses in the firebox ignited with an impressive "whump!" and a sizable puff of smoke blew out of the baro damper. I can't blame the furnace for that - it did a great job of managing the burn. I also can't blame my baro - without it, my 30-some foot masonry chimney would be an overdrafting monster.
> 
> We haven't noticed any smoke smell in the house since installing the HC, but we'll be sure to keep sniffing and report back if we discover the baro-puffs to be common.
> 
> Overall, this thing is wonderful. We're warmer, more comfortable, spend a fraction of the time having to monitor or stoke the furnace, and have burned about 30% less wood than usual (though it's also been a mild winter). I feel like the furnace is burning more efficiently and also getting a lot more of the heat into the house than the Tundra 1 did.



Nicely said. Are you running the pellet stove at all? We prefer 66-67 at night so I think I'm asking for a bit more heat overall.

No back-puffs here yet and I'm burning 3-4 fires a day for the past 5-6 weeks. I did have an occasional back-puff with my Tundra but that was usually due to shutting the front damper flap too early in the burn. It would back-puff out the front flap and send smoke stink though the house, sometimes even setting off smoke alarms. This was always fun during the middle of the night when waking up from a dead sleep!

Eric


----------



## SBI_Nick

Hi everyone,

few more answers here

Caddy Advanced and Caddy Advanced CR

_Many of you are speculating about the Caddy Advanced and Advanced CR. I cannot tell much for now, but both will share the same firebox and the same controller with the Heat Commander. As it is currently, our PSG line is for HVAC instead of hardware store. We planned to offer in the PSG line an entry level furnace (Advanced) and the CR which will come with all the bells and whistles and more. For sure, the Advanced won’t be exactly the same as the Heat Commander it will be better suited for HVAC instead of DIY as most of you are. We don’t have the release date for now, the Advanced will come first and the CR will be available later. We hope both will be out on the market for next heating season.

_

Smaller or bigger

_Ultimately, we plan to expand our wood furnace line up. As you know we used to offer 3 sizes (small, medium, large), from my point of view I'm not convinced we need a bigger unit. With the Heat Commander already being a bit bigger than the Tundra and more efficient, I think we will be able to stretch the heating area compared to its predecessor. If you really want to fill it up, you can put up to 50 pounds of wood in it, which i'm pretty sure most of the time users don't fill the furnace to the maximum. Probably a few times a year it will happen, when it gets really cold you may need to fill it up to the baffle and recharge it more than usual, but overall it will produce enough heat to keep it comfortable for most of the house.

*Most of us tend to buy bigger is better. From your perspective, do you think we should provide a unit larger or smaller than the Heat Commander?*_

Thanks,

Nicolas


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> Nicely said. Are you running the pellet stove at all? We prefer 66-67 at night so I think I'm asking for a bit more heat.



We would all melt if we slept at 66 or 67*. :-D

Right now, we are only running the pellet stove first thing in the morning to get the temps moving up until I have a chance to get in the basement and light a fire in the Heat Commander. I'm usually up around 530, but try to workout, have breakfast, get breakfast ready for my still-sleeping family, answer customer emails, etc., while I'm fresh out of bed. 

In the past, I would have lit a fire in the Tundra first thing, but with the pellet stove I can comfortably wait until everyone else is up and fed.

Once we're into the deep belly of winter, I'm sure well also run the pellet stove some at night to keep the house from going below 60.

We used to have the Tundra in the house and a woodstove in the shop, which meant a solid 90 minutes per day tending fires, cleaning stoves, etc., often at inconvenient times and with pretty uneven temp swings. This year, with a pellet stove and HC in the house and a pellet stove in the shop, I think we'll be much more comfortable and put in much less time.

(Note, we don't have propane, NG, or oil. Wood is our primary heat with selective electric baseboards for emergency backup.)


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> few more answers here
> 
> Caddy Advanced and Caddy Advanced CR
> 
> _Many of you are speculating about the Caddy Advanced and Advanced CR. I cannot tell much for now, but both will share the same firebox and the same controller with the Heat Commander. As it is currently, our PSG line is for HVAC instead of hardware store. We planned to offer in the PSG line an entry level furnace (Advanced) and the CR which will come with all the bells and whistles and more. For sure, the Advanced won’t be exactly the same as the Heat Commander it will be better suited for HVAC instead of DIY as most of you are. We don’t have the release date for now, the Advanced will come first and the CR will be available later. We hope both will be out on the market for next heating season._
> 
> 
> 
> Smaller or bigger
> 
> _Ultimately, we plan to expand our wood furnace line up. As you know we used to offer 3 sizes (small, medium, large), from my point of view I'm not convinced we need a bigger unit. With the Heat Commander already being a bit bigger than the Tundra and more efficient, I think we will be able to stretch the heating area compared to its predecessor. If you really want to fill it up, you can put up to 50 pounds of wood in it, which i'm pretty sure most of the time users don't fill the furnace to the maximum. Probably a few times a year it will happen, when it gets really cold you may need to fill it up to the baffle and recharge it more than usual, but overall it will produce enough heat to keep it comfortable for most of the house.
> 
> *Most of us tend to buy bigger is better. From your perspective, do you think we should provide a unit larger or smaller than the Heat Commander?*_
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nicolas



Your comment on the HC capacity is a good point. Everyone, please note that when I say we put in a "full load", we loading to about 3 inches below the burn tubes, but *we have 16 inch splits*. We could easily get 25% more wood in if we used our "deep winter" 20 inch splits, so I guess it's not really a "full load" at the moment. 

As for the size of the furnace, the HC is putting out a lot more heat than the Tundra - I definitely wouldn't want a bigger furnace. It's doing a great job heating our 1600 sq ft, two-story 1910 former one-room schoolhouse, including a 900 sq ft basement that we keep around 55* or 60*. The second floor is buttoned up tight and well insulated with foam and off-set, double 2x4 walls, but the first floor walls are a mix of drafty FG batts and poured styrene beads. 

I'd love to see a woodstove with this kind of control system and a variable speed, automatic blower. I think I know at least 6 people who would by something like that tomorrow.


----------



## Matt78

FixedGearFlyer said:


> More updates. If I'm being too "update-y," say so and I'll keep to myself.
> 
> TLDR summary: 13 hour burns with even heat leave us impressed. I watched a pretty good back puff through the baro damper when the furnace reestablished secondaries yesterday.
> 
> Long burn times and even heat:
> 
> We've finally got proper cold weather and have found a rhythm with the Heat Commander. With our Tundra, we used to burn three to four medium loads through the day - morning, lunch, evening, and -if it was really cold - bedtime. That helped us spread the heat through the day rather than blasting for 3 hours, tapering off, and ending with us desperately trying to get rid of a thick coal bed so we could reload.
> 
> The Heat Commander is vastly improved. We've been lighting one full load around 8am . . . And that's it. The heat output is amazingly even and our house is sitting at 70* (with the tstat set to 68*) for 12 to 13 hours every day. At 8 pm, the blower is still cycling and holding the temp, though if we were in the single digits, it would be losing ground. So far, we haven't done any reloads because we like a cooler house for sleeping and let it drop to about 60* overnight.
> 
> We now spend about 10 minutes per day with the furnace. We clean out the previous fire's ash, load the box, light it off, wait about 60 seconds, close the door . . . And enjoy even heat for 12 hours.
> 
> Back puffing through the baro:
> 
> I came into the house and sat by the furnace while eating lunch yesterday. It was about 4 hours in and there were nice, lazy secondaries over very chared splits. While I was watching, the furnace lost the secondaries and I could hear the shutters adjusting to get them back.
> 
> Over a 3 or 4 minute period, the shutters incrementally opened, the charred splits began to glow bright red, and, finally, flame returned.
> 
> When it did, all of the gasses in the firebox ignited with an impressive "whump!" and a sizable puff of smoke blew out of the baro damper. I can't blame the furnace for that - it did a great job of managing the burn. I also can't blame my baro - without it, my 30-some foot masonry chimney would be an overdrafting monster.
> 
> We haven't noticed any smoke smell in the house since installing the HC, but we'll be sure to keep sniffing and report back if we discover the baro-puffs to be common.
> 
> Overall, this thing is wonderful. We're warmer, more comfortable, spend a fraction of the time having to monitor or stoke the furnace, and have burned about 30% less wood than usual (though it's also been a mild winter). I feel like the furnace is burning more efficiently and also getting a lot more of the heat into the house than the Tundra 1 did.


We've had long burns also! Very impressed with this thing! Pic is from today. loaded full at 5am and and coal bed at 4pm. House set at 70 and outside temp is in mid 20's. Slight breeze. House is still at 70 now! Furnace is still putting out heat! We keep the house set at 70 around the clock. I load it full when I leave for work and at bed time. Maybe 3 to 4 splits in between. The only thing I have to complain about is sometimes I can't remember if I pushed the button! Lol I believe it flashing 3 times at you if you already did. Very happy!


----------



## Matt78

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> few more answers here
> 
> Caddy Advanced and Caddy Advanced CR
> 
> _Many of you are speculating about the Caddy Advanced and Advanced CR. I cannot tell much for now, but both will share the same firebox and the same controller with the Heat Commander. As it is currently, our PSG line is for HVAC instead of hardware store. We planned to offer in the PSG line an entry level furnace (Advanced) and the CR which will come with all the bells and whistles and more. For sure, the Advanced won’t be exactly the same as the Heat Commander it will be better suited for HVAC instead of DIY as most of you are. We don’t have the release date for now, the Advanced will come first and the CR will be available later. We hope both will be out on the market for next heating season._
> 
> 
> 
> Smaller or bigger
> 
> _Ultimately, we plan to expand our wood furnace line up. As you know we used to offer 3 sizes (small, medium, large), from my point of view I'm not convinced we need a bigger unit. With the Heat Commander already being a bit bigger than the Tundra and more efficient, I think we will be able to stretch the heating area compared to its predecessor. If you really want to fill it up, you can put up to 50 pounds of wood in it, which i'm pretty sure most of the time users don't fill the furnace to the maximum. Probably a few times a year it will happen, when it gets really cold you may need to fill it up to the baffle and recharge it more than usual, but overall it will produce enough heat to keep it comfortable for most of the house.
> 
> *Most of us tend to buy bigger is better. From your perspective, do you think we should provide a unit larger or smaller than the Heat Commander?*_
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nicolas


I'd think the size of the HC would heat a larger house for sure. Ours is 1850 sqft ranch style with leaky windows. So I say the HC would be big enough! But you know us Americans!!


----------



## usernametaken

Nicolas, I didn't go the bigger is better route with out Max Caddy. My HVAC installer actually thought that the standard Caddy would be sufficient but the fact that only the Max could add the hot water accessory loop was why I went that route. It also happened to match the square footage of my home better based on the info on your site. That said, I'm so glad I have the Max even though I ended up with it for a different reason. 75% of the time the standard size would have been enough. However, when you have a cold week like the one we're having now with low 20's during the day and single digits at night, I need all the capacity the Max has to offer. I keep a full season of wood in the basement so I can choose my loads very specifically and on very cold nights I fill the firebox like a puzzle and I don't think you could fit an additional twig in there when I'm done. Doing that I can keep my 3500 square foot home right were I want it overnight for 8-9 hours at 70-72. Granted, my home has a very large duct system that contributes to loss. My furnace is at one end of the house and the furthest duct runs go to a 950 sq/ft family room over the garage at the opposite end of the house. On the main house, it's quite the long run to the ducts over the second floor as well. If I had built this house planning to burn fossil fuels, I would have done separate furnaces but since I wanted to do wood, this was my only option that worked with my floorplan. Anyways, long story long, I am very grateful that a "Max" size was offered since the standard size would not have worked for me...


----------



## laynes69

We have a rebadged Caddy, and when we first got it we couldn't keep the house over 68 when it was 30 degrees out. Fast forward with seasoned wood and a much tighter home we could keep the house 75 at 0 degrees. For me personally if you can produce a clean burning furnace with the ability to burn low and slow, why not go a little bigger. There's a number of people with large older farm houses that require a heavy heat load when needed. However for us, we push our furnace only a few times a year and it always pulls through.  We also don't cut our wood at maximum length and now rarely do a heavy full load.  I think of blaze king, and the large units hold alot of wood and burn for hours. What type of wood was used in the testing of the heat commander?


----------



## trx250r87

Heat Commander vs Tundra thermo images. The front of the Tundra got much hotter but the HC has an extra layer of sheet metal on the front. 

Eric


----------



## trx250r87

laynes69 said:


> We have a rebadged Caddy, and when we first got it we couldn't keep the house over 68 when it was 30 degrees out. Fast forward with seasoned wood and a much tighter home we could keep the house 75 at 0 degrees. For me personally if you can produce a clean burning furnace with the ability to burn low and slow, why not go a little bigger. There's a number of people with large older farm houses that require a heavy heat load when needed. However for us, we push our furnace only a few times a year and it always pulls through.  We also don't cut our wood at maximum length and now rarely do a heavy full load.  I think of blaze king, and the large units hold alot of wood and burn for hours. What type of wood was used in the testing of the heat commander?



I recall the testing/certification documents said the beech was used to test the Heat Commander. 

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> Heat Commander vs Tundra thermo images. The front of the Tundra got much hotter but the HC has an extra layer of sheet metal on the front.
> 
> Eric



This is an awesome comparison! I was always amazed at how much heat comes off the front of my heatmax 2.  You can barley sit in front of it most of the time.


----------



## Matt78

trx250r87 said:


> Heat Commander vs Tundra thermo images. The front of the Tundra got much hotter but the HC has an extra layer of sheet metal on the front.
> 
> Eric


Man looking at this some more and it's no wonder why the HC puts out more heat. It's contained in the unit better. Then transferred to the plenum. Looks like the HC pic the fire is 200 degrees hotter also? No wonder the T1 were prone to cracks. There's a lot of distortion around the air intake. Great comparison


----------



## Gearhead660

Curious of the flue temp with the Heat Commander.  Has anyone checked theirs?  It's surprising how much heat my T2 strips compared to my wood stove.


----------



## Matt78

Gearhead660 said:


> Curious of the flue temp with the Heat Commander.  Has anyone checked theirs?  It's surprising how much heat my T2 strips compared to my wood stove.


Mine runs about 200 to 300 degrees. My T1 if I remember right. Was anywhere from 300 to 550 degrees. I'm going to shut it down Wednesday and add the baro. Curious to see what the pipe looks like after a month of burning!


----------



## andym

Gbawol42 said:


> This is an awesome comparison! I was always amazed at how much heat comes off the front of my heatmax 2.  You can barley sit in front of it most of the time.


Mine also throws a fair amount of heat, but not like I expected. An amazing amount of the heat is carried away by the ductwork. My basement is finished so I need the heat. Some don't, so I understand that part.

As I recall the advertised 'delivered efficiency' was not much higher than the H2\T2. Maybe 2%?


----------



## SpaceBus

Matt78 said:


> Mine runs about 200 to 300 degrees. My T1 if I remember right. Was anywhere from 300 to 550 degrees. I'm going to shut it down Wednesday and add the baro. Curious to see what the pipe looks like after a month of burning!


Is that surface or internal?


----------



## Case1030

andym said:


> Mine also throws a fair amount of heat, but not like I expected. An amazing amount of the heat is carried away by the ductwork. My basement is finished so I need the heat. Some don't, so I understand that part.
> 
> As I recall the advertised 'delivered efficiency' was not much higher than the H2\T2. Maybe 2%?



Alot of people will get the most benefit from increase delivered BTU and more even heat output. I wouldn't trust those numbers "2%" increase seems low compared to the results people have being getting. Look at the Heat commander optimal efficiency 83.2%, tundra/ heatmax 2 84.9%. (Drolet website) I believe the HC is more effective at delivering the heat than producing more heat. That is my opinion... wood only holds so many btu before it starts pulling heat from thin air . My Tundra flue temp sits around 350f internal it can float either way 50+-. But only stays at that temperature for 4-5 hours before dropping.

Now where I see the largest benefit is the grate that can open and close directly giving air to the coals instead of wasting heat up the chimney and also ability to prevent smoldering wasted BTU.


----------



## trx250r87

Matt78 said:


> Man looking at this some more and it's no wonder why the HC puts out more heat. It's contained in the unit better. Then transferred to the plenum. Looks like the HC pic the fire is 200 degrees hotter also? No wonder the T1 were prone to cracks. There's a lot of distortion around the air intake. Great comparison


I'm not sure the temp readings on or through the glass is accurate, but if you look closely at the magnetic thermometer on both cleanout doors you can see they are very similar in temp. 

I agree, the Heat Commander puts more heat into the ductwork and not as much as raidant heat outthefront. The HC is also more effecient and getting heat for longer into the burn as it keeps the fan on more during coaling stage. 

Eric


----------



## SBI_Nick

*2020-12-22*


Hi,

First, thank you for your comments regarding the next size of furnace, we might ask you more details about your home and set-up to confirm the right heating area.

Second, one of you was wondering the kind of wood we are using for testing, has it been mention I confirmed it is beech.

Third, regarding efficiency it is measure under lab condition with dry wood and specific loading pattern. As EPA request it is shown in the owner’s manual how to load to achieve optimum efficiency. The big difference with the Heat Commander is no matter the wood quality and how you will load, the furnace will make sure it delivers the maximum efficiency you can get.

Finally, good news there will be a new tax credit for the US from January 1, 2021 through December 31, 2023. The Heat Commander and the Caddy Advanced will be eligible to the credit having an overall efficiency over 75%, the current efficiency is 77%. Further information can be found here:  https://www.hpba.org/Advocacy/Biomass-Stove-Tax-Credit



Thanks,

Nicolas


----------



## usernametaken

Nick, while my home is new and well insulated, my duct runs are longer than average. I'm thinking if my home was of a more traditional design (two floor with a centrally located furnace), a smaller furnace might have sufficed. I'd be happy to share any details of my install if it helps you all in any way.


----------



## Matt78

SpaceBus said:


> Is that surface or internal?


Internal


----------



## SpaceBus

Matt78 said:


> Internal


Wow, that's every last bit of energy out of that exhaust stream! I'm happy with 400-500 df (estimated) internal flue temp on my Morso after the built in heat exchanger. Once I have a properly sized insulated liner I will probably run it even lower.


----------



## Matt78

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that's every last bit of energy out of that exhaust stream! I'm happy with 400-500 df (estimated) internal flue temp on my Morso after the built in heat exchanger. Once I have a properly sized insulated liner I will probably run it even lower.


I did see 400 on it yesterday


----------



## JRHAWK9

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that's every last bit of energy out of that exhaust stream! I'm happy with 400-500 df (estimated) internal flue temp on my Morso after the built in heat exchanger. Once I have a properly sized insulated liner I will probably run it even lower.



Those flue temps are pretty typical of all newer GOOD furnaces.  With a clean heat exchanger and extended pilot time with the computer set to minimum burn, I have seen flue temps as low as 280° internal about 12" from the collar.


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> I have seen flue temps as low as 280° internal about 12" from the collar.


X2...have seen lower than that too...but then I realized that my temp probe needed cleaned and/or was pushed in too far (was at the bottom of the pipe...I try to keep it in the middle.


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> X2...have seen lower than that too...but then I realized that my temp probe needed cleaned and/or was pushed in too far (was at the bottom of the pipe...I try to keep it in the middle.



I remember those 250° temps....I was like   

 

If I pull my probe out an inch it makes  a difference in the temp it reads, as it reads lower.  I have mine directly on top of the stove pipe inserted fully.


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> I have mine directly on top of the stove pipe inserted fully.





JRHAWK9 said:


> I have mine directly on top of the stove pipe inserted fully.


Right...but my probe is longer I think...it will go clear to the bottom of the pipe if I let it.
(that will elicit a few comments I imagine...)


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> Right...but my probe is longer I think...it will go clear to the bottom of the pipe if I let it.



yeah, I was not blessed with a very long probe.


----------



## ColCat

New poster here on this thread, although I have posted hearth for some time.  It has taken me a day just to get through this thread and I greatly appreciate the enthusiasm you have shown with this HC.

I currently have had a hot blast (my third wood furnace) for three years and the steel air channels that feed the stainless secondary burn tubes are rotting out.  I have ordered an HC and it will be delivered next Monday.  I wonder if you could kindly indulge me with some questions.

My current hot air delivery is via two 8" round ducts that connect to two different branch rectangular ducts.  By my calculations, that only gives me 100 cubic inches when I need about 170.  How have others handled this?  Also, it seems to me that it would be much easier to connect these directly to the top of the HC box instead of creating some kind of octopus with all these 6" ducts.  

Second, I don't currently use a barometric damper.  Looking back on previous hearth posts, one reads:   "A *barometric damper* should never be installed on a *wood stove*. It will allow cool air into the flue, both slowing flue gases and increasing the likelihood of the smoke condensing and forming creosote. A *barometric damper* will also cause very rapid feeding of a chimney fire if one were to start. (posted on Feb 24, 2009.)"  Why is it now OK to install one in an exhaust stovepipe?


----------



## maple1

That's likely comparing a somewhat dirtier burning wood stove to a clean burning furnace. There should be next to nothing in the exhaust stream of an EPA furnace that would condense to creosote.


----------



## andym

The owners manual for both of the current EPA wood furnaces specify a BD to control strong draft. The HC specifies no more than a .06 draft. Most installs will require or at least benefit from installing a barometric damper.


----------



## brenndatomu

andym said:


> Most installs will require or at least benefit from installing a barometric damper.


Especially tall chimneys...which you tend to have on wood furnaces in the basement...and there really is no other good way to control draft on a machine that is hooked to a tstat, and can change the air intake on its own...when that happens a closed manual damper could be disastrous.
Kuumas come with a BD...I think they want you to use it...


----------



## trx250r87

ColCat said:


> New poster here on this thread, although I have posted hearth for some time.  It has taken me a day just to get through this thread and I greatly appreciate the enthusiasm you have shown with this HC.
> 
> I currently have had a hot blast (my third wood furnace) for three years and the steel air channels that feed the stainless secondary burn tubes are rotting out.  I have ordered an HC and it will be delivered next Monday.  I wonder if you could kindly indulge me with some questions.
> 
> My current hot air delivery is via two 8" round ducts that connect to two different branch rectangular ducts.  By my calculations, that only gives me 100 cubic inches when I need about 170.  How have others handled this?  Also, it seems to me that it would be much easier to connect these directly to the top of the HC box instead of creating some kind of octopus with all these 6" ducts.
> 
> Second, I don't currently use a barometric damper.  Looking back on previous hearth posts, one reads:   "A *barometric damper* should never be installed on a *wood stove*. It will allow cool air into the flue, both slowing flue gases and increasing the likelihood of the smoke condensing and forming creosote. A *barometric damper* will also cause very rapid feeding of a chimney fire if one were to start. (posted on Feb 24, 2009.)"  Why is it now OK to install one in an exhaust stovepipe?



I'm running three 8" round ducts from the Heat Commander into the main trunk of my gas furnace. I also didn't seal up the top of the plenum very well, where there are air leaks from the ten 6" take-offs that I did not use. 

Eric


----------



## JRHAWK9

SpaceBus said:


> Wow, that's every last bit of energy out of that exhaust stream! I'm happy with 400-500 df (estimated) internal flue temp on my Morso after the built in heat exchanger. Once I have a properly sized insulated liner I will probably run it even lower.



We finally are getting a couple days of colder weather so I was able to do some back to back to back loadings on coals.  Woke up to 9° this morning.

Here's a graph of my flue temps and supply temps with the Kuuma set on minimum burn.  It's been almost a couple months since I cleaned the heat exchanger.  Red are flue temps, blue are supply temps.

-  7:45pm last night.  Started a fire in a warm firebox and loaded 18.7lbs.
-  10pm last night.  Loaded 52.6lbs for the night on a bed of nice coals.
-  7:15am this morning.  Raked coals forward (to burn them off faster).
-  8:50am this morning.  Loaded 48.9lbs.

The peaks and troughs of the flue gas temps are the computer automatically opening and closing the primary damper in order to keep firebox temps at whatever setpoint I have the computer set to, in this case minimum.   






Just supply temps.  Spikes in supply temps are when I shut the blower off whenever I open the door.  This is also how I know what times I'm doing things like loading and raking coals forward when I look at these graphs later on.





House was 74° when I got up and is still 74° almost 40 minutes after loading the morning load.  11° outside now.

Just happened to glance at my remote temp monitoring now and my flue gas temp was 318°.


----------



## JRHAWK9

Matt78 said:


> Mine runs about 200 to 300 degrees. My T1 if I remember right. Was anywhere from 300 to 550 degrees. I'm going to shut it down Wednesday and add the baro. Curious to see what the pipe looks like after a month of burning!



Where you place the probe and to what depth you place it in the stove pipe makes a difference on what you see for temps.  In my experience, placing it within 12" of the collar and ON TOP of the pipe inserted so the probe tip sees at least the middle of the pipe makes for the most accurate (higher) temps.  If you place it on the bottom, further down stream or not inserted far enough, you will be showing lower temps.  I can drop my metered temps 50° by simply pulling the probe out maybe 0.5" to an 1".


----------



## woodey

JRHAWK9 said:


> Spikes in supply temps are when I shut the blower off whenever I open the door


Wondering why you are shutting the blower off prior to opening the door?


----------



## JRHAWK9

woodey said:


> Wondering why you are shutting the blower off prior to opening the door?



I have a couple small 4" ducts above the door which reclaims some of the heat off the face of the furnace and puts it in my return air.  I just don't want any potential smoke spillage to be sucked up and sent throughout the house.  It's just a habit I got myself into.


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> I have a couple small 4" ducts above the door which reclaims some of the heat off the face of the furnace and puts it in my return air.  I just don't want any potential smoke spillage to be sucked up and sent throughout the house.  It's just a habit I got myself into.


That and you took the smoke flap off too, right?


----------



## woodey

JRHAWK9 said:


> I have a couple small 4" ducts above the door which reclaims some of the heat off the face of the furnace and puts it in my return air.  I just don't want any potential smoke spillage to be sucked up and sent throughout the house.  It's just a habit I got myself into.


After I posted my question I remembered what your setup looked like and assumed it had something to do with that.


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> That and you took the smoke flap off too, right?



yep, that too.


----------



## ColCat

Can the Field Controls barometric draft controller fit into a standard 6" stovepipe tee?  I purchased the US Stove draft controller, but can return it if the Field Controls unit is that much better.


----------



## brenndatomu

Yes


ColCat said:


> Can the Field Controls barometric draft controller fit into a standard 6" stovepipe tee?


Yes.


ColCat said:


> I purchased the US Stove draft controller, but can return it if the Field Controls unit is that much better.


Not familiar with the USSC baro, but they are not known for high quality...just cheap price.
EDIT: just looked them up...look the same as the VZ unit...get to thinking about it, I think USSC owns VZ now...


----------



## Rockstar1346

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> few more answers here
> 
> Caddy Advanced and Caddy Advanced CR
> 
> _Many of you are speculating about the Caddy Advanced and Advanced CR. I cannot tell much for now, but both will share the same firebox and the same controller with the Heat Commander. As it is currently, our PSG line is for HVAC instead of hardware store. We planned to offer in the PSG line an entry level furnace (Advanced) and the CR which will come with all the bells and whistles and more. For sure, the Advanced won’t be exactly the same as the Heat Commander it will be better suited for HVAC instead of DIY as most of you are. We don’t have the release date for now, the Advanced will come first and the CR will be available later. We hope both will be out on the market for next heating season._
> 
> 
> 
> Smaller or bigger
> 
> _Ultimately, we plan to expand our wood furnace line up. As you know we used to offer 3 sizes (small, medium, large), from my point of view I'm not convinced we need a bigger unit. With the Heat Commander already being a bit bigger than the Tundra and more efficient, I think we will be able to stretch the heating area compared to its predecessor. If you really want to fill it up, you can put up to 50 pounds of wood in it, which i'm pretty sure most of the time users don't fill the furnace to the maximum. Probably a few times a year it will happen, when it gets really cold you may need to fill it up to the baffle and recharge it more than usual, but overall it will produce enough heat to keep it comfortable for most of the house.
> 
> *Most of us tend to buy bigger is better. From your perspective, do you think we should provide a unit larger or smaller than the Heat Commander?*_
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nicolas


Personally I think a smaller unit would be a more economical decision as these newer units are higher efficiency. A small medium and large epa2020 wood furnace I think would make the most sense as not everyone can afford a 4K diy furnace. I’m sold either way on the HC as the 10+ hour burn times are something of a dream for me at this point.


----------



## Matt78

woodey said:


> Wondering why you are shutting the blower off prior to opening the door?


The newest software download actually does this. For me it helps get the fire going better on a colder start. And it doesn't suck ash out the fire box. Eric actually let me know of this software update


----------



## Matt78

ColCat said:


> Can the Field Controls barometric draft controller fit into a standard 6" stovepipe tee?  I purchased the U





JRHAWK9 said:


> Where you place the probe and to what depth you place it in the stove pipe makes a difference on what you see for temps.  In my experience, placing it within 12" of the collar and ON TOP of the pipe inserted so the probe tip sees at least the middle of the pipe makes for the most accurate (higher) temps.  If you place it on the bottom, further down stream or not inserted far enough, you will be showing lower temps.  I can drop my metered temps 50° by simply pulling the probe out maybe 0.5" to an 1".


Mines within 12" of the collar and probe is to center. Most of the time its at or just under 300 deg f.


----------



## Matt78

Matt78 said:


> The newest software download actually does this. For me it helps get the fire going better on a colder start. And it doesn't suck ash out the fire box. Eric actually let me know of this software update


Sorry seen this was about a kuuma furnace. The HC shut the fan off on reload. Of course you gotta hit the green button!


----------



## woodey

No need to shut the blower off with my Kuuma, I leave the door open during the loading process and can open it at any point during the burn cycle without any smoke being released into the basement,


----------



## brenndatomu

woodey said:


> No need to shut the blower off with my Kuuma, I leave the door open during the loading process and can open it at any point during the burn cycle without any smoke being released into the basement,


Same here...seldom any smoke...if there is any, it is very light and dissipates almost immediately, and almost never can be smelled anywhere else in the house...not like back when I had the Yukon...it had a smaller door and a larger chimney, but when the HX needed cleaned it would spill smoke, and man did that reek sometimes!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Matt78 said:


> The newest software download actually does this. For me it helps get the fire going better on a colder start. And it doesn't suck ash out the fire box. Eric actually let me know of this software update


 
I've been scratching my head about the "fan off = no ash or smoke spillage on reload" thing. The fan doesn't blow into the firebox, so I wasn't understanding why it being on or off makes any difference. On our HC, which is on the original firmware, we can reload with the blower on and don't have any smoke or ash spillage.

I think I understand, now. Do you guys have your blowers connected to a return duct system, or are you pulling your return air directly from the room the furnace is in? If you're pulling from the furnace room, the room would be at negative pressure with the fan on and I can see how spillage could happen.


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I've been scratching my head about the "fan off = no ash or smoke spillage on reload" thing. The fan doesn't blow into the firebox, so I wasn't understanding why it being on or off makes any difference. On our HC, which is on the original firmware, we can reload with the blower on and don't have any smoke or ash spillage.
> 
> I think I understand, now. Do you guys have your blowers connected to a return duct system, or are you pulling your return air directly from the room the furnace is in? If you're pulling from the furnace room, the room would be at negative pressure with the fan on and I can see how spillage could happen.



I do not have the cold air return hooked up to the air filter box of the HC. I'm pulling directly from the basement, air has to travel down the stairs back to the HC. 

I think my issue was more related to the blower fan pushing air out the front of the furnace near the loading door. I get a lot of air blowing out the hole between the ash lip and main door. Your theory on negative pressure might be valid, however, I NEVER had an issue with the Tundra leaking smoke or ash.

Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> I do not have the cold air return hooked up to the air filter box of the HC. I'm pulling directly from the basement, air has to travel down the stairs back to the HC.
> 
> I think my issue was more related to the blower fan pushing air out the front of the furnace near the loading door. I get a lot of air blowing out the hole between the ash lip and main door. Your theory on negative pressure might be valid, however, I NEVER had an issue with the Tundra leaking smoke or ash.
> 
> Eric



Ah. That makes sense, too. That's one of the spots I sealed. The whole front of the air jacket was pretty drafty, especially that spot, around the ash pan door, and the bottom edge.


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Ah. That makes sense, too. That's one of the spots I sealed. The whole front of the air jacket was pretty drafty, especially that spot, around the ash pan door, and the bottom edge.



I sealed up everything EXCEPT that area around the doghouse air hole. It might take a couple layers of high temp silicone to fill due to the size of the gap.

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I sealed up everything EXCEPT that area around the doghouse air hole. It might take a couple layers of high temp silicone to fill due to the size of the gap.
> 
> Eric


Would folding/stuffing some gasket material like this in there work better?








						9460 - Lynn Manufacturing 9460 - High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape for Boiler & Furnace, 1000F (1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft) - White
					

Lynn Manufacturing 9460 - High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape for Boiler & Furnace, 1000F (1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft) - White - Lynn 9460 High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape, 1000F, White, Boiler & Furnace, 1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft<br><br>  <b>Features:</b><br> <ul><li>PRODUCT INFO: White high temperature flat...




					www.supplyhouse.com


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Would folding/stuffing some gasket material like this in there work better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9460 - Lynn Manufacturing 9460 - High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape for Boiler & Furnace, 1000F (1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft) - White
> 
> 
> Lynn Manufacturing 9460 - High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape for Boiler & Furnace, 1000F (1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft) - White - Lynn 9460 High Temperature Flat Gasket Tape, 1000F, White, Boiler & Furnace, 1'' x 1/8'' x 25ft<br><br>  <b>Features:</b><br> <ul><li>PRODUCT INFO: White high temperature flat...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supplyhouse.com



I don't think the gap is that large. Here is a photo before I calked. I just tried hight temp silicone and it looks like a 4 year old child's art project. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I don't think the gap is that large. Here is a photo before I calked. I just tried hight temp silicone and it looks like a 4 year old child's art project.
> 
> Eric


I think that flat gasket material would work well on that...it is 1/8" thick x 1" or so wide, if it was folded over and stuffed in there, I think it would seal that up nicely...


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Mid-Winter check-in:

We're still thrilled with the Heat Commander. Our burns are longer, we get more heat in the house for the same amount of wood in the box, and the plenum (and the duct work upgrade it enabled) is a huge step up from our T1. Plus, we load it and walk away while it micro manages the burn all day long.

Our wood consumption is hard to compare because the winter has been so mild. We're at about 50% of our normal use; my gut says that the HC accounts for 15 or 20% of that.

The big thing is comfort. The heat output is much more evenly spread through the burn and our house sits at 68 to 70 for the entire day with very little temp swing. No more sweating in the first 3 hours of a burn or bundling up while a huge coal bed burns down. 

In fact, the coal bed isn't an issue at all. The HC's grill air does a great job of burning down the coals and producing meaningful heat in the last 20% of a burn. I haven't had to wait for the bed to thin out before reloading, at all.

Like the T1, it needs to have the heat exchangers cleaned every two or three weeks, but it's a nearly identical exchanger design, so that's not surprising. 

We have noticed a little more creosote build up than with the T1 in the stove pipe and masonry chimney. It hasn't been an issue and isn't running or dripping anywhere - I can just see a light glaze when I inspect the chimney and pipe. A bit of creosote conversion powder and a monthly brushing seem to be all that's needed to keep things spic and span, but it's more than the twice-annual cleaning we did with the T1.

An added cost will be a chimney liner next summer. The HC would definitely benefit from a 6 inch liner in our 7 inch square masonry chimney. In cold weather, our Fields baro can't quite hold the draft to -.06 and we end up closer to -.08. I'd like to fix that and cut down on the amount of cold baro air in the flue, which should also cut down on the chimney creosote.


----------



## trx250r87

Great write up! My experience has been exactly the same. The only difference for me is that I have a manual damper and not a baro. I noticed that even when the draft is high (closer to .1) the HC still handles the burn very well and does not let the fire get out of control. 

The last few overnight burns have been perfect for me. Load at 9:30pm and at 6:30am the house is at 70-71 degrees and there is enough coals to light off without the need of kindling or a torch. 

Eric


----------



## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> We have noticed a little more creosote build up than with the T1 in the stove pipe and masonry chimney. It hasn't been an issue and isn't running or dripping anywhere - I can just see a light glaze when I inspect the chimney and pipe.



This would be a concern for me.  Should not be seeing this on a 2020 EPA certified appliance.  This means you are not burning all the gases and are wasting fuel, period. 



FixedGearFlyer said:


> A bit of creosote conversion powder and a monthly brushing seem to be all that's needed to keep things spic and span, but it's more than the twice-annual cleaning we did with the T1.



Should NOT be needed to keep a chimney clean on a wood burning appliance which is 2020 certified.     




FixedGearFlyer said:


> I'd like to fix that and cut down on the amount of cold baro air in the flue, which should also cut down on the chimney creosote.



I actually added an OAK to my BD (which uses ALL outside air to control my draft) therefore -increasing- the amount of frigid cold air entering my chimney by way of the BD.  Have seen temps as low as 11° entering my BD from the outside.  Still have ZERO creosote issues......just flyash.

Taken right before it enters my BD.  I believe this was the time a couple years ago when we hit -27°F.




This is what a chimney of a properly burning 2020 certified furnace should look like.  Taken after one full heating season.  BTW, full disclosure, this was taken a handful of years ago before I put my OAK on my BD and Lamppa supplied baffles in my HX (which now come with all new ones).  What I see now is pretty much the same stuff, but the flyash is brown/black and a little more "fuzzy" looking.  Definitely nothing that needs to be cleaned monthly  (     )  ...or even yearly for that matter.


----------



## laynes69

All units no matter what will smoke a little until up to temperature. If he has a masonry chimney, it will be cooler than without a liner, either insulated or not. I highly doubt it's a case of wasting fuel.


----------



## JRHAWK9

laynes69 said:


> All units no matter what will smoke a little until up to temperature.



I agree.  I have been starting at least one fire almost every day this heating season due to our milder winter this year so far and the fact I am working from home so I can micro-manage small loadings better.  I fully expect to see what I always see when I clean my chimney next fall though.....flyash. 



laynes69 said:


> If he has a masonry chimney, it will be cooler than without a liner, either insulated or not.



I agree, however that is no excuse.  You still need the proper gases (wasted fuel) present over time in order to develop it.  Without prolonged exposure of those gasses being present, there will be no creosote.  Creosote is a tell-tale sign and doesn't lie.  Yes, you do need the proper (lower) chimney temps as well, but you need BOTH to create creosote.  I'm mixing cold outside air up my chimney and don't have any issues.  I do get accumulation of some really fluffy/flaky flyash around my BD where the cold air enters, but nothing that would require me to clean it every month.


----------



## SpaceBus

JRHAWK9 said:


> I agree.  I have been starting at least one fire almost every day this heating season due to our milder winter this year so far and the fact I am working from home so I can micro-manage small loadings better.  I fully expect to see what I always see when I clean my chimney next fall though.....flyash.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, however that is no excuse.  You still need the proper gases (wasted fuel) present over time in order to develop it.  Without prolonged exposure of those gasses being present, there will be no creosote.  Creosote is a tell-tale sign and doesn't lie.  Yes, you do need the proper (lower) chimney temps as well, but you need BOTH to create creosote.  I'm mixing cold outside air up my chimney and don't have any issues.  I do get accumulation of some really fluffy/flaky flyash around my BD where the cold air enters, but nothing that would require me to clean it every month.


That's probably just from moisture condensing on the BD area and then the ash is sticking to it. I have yet to see anything other than dark dust in my cookstove and heat stove (inside the unit and flue), but I don't smolder either of them.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

JRHAWK9 said:


> ... I do get accumulation of some really fluffy/flaky flyash around my BD where the cold air enters, but nothing that would require me to clean it every month.



So, I should clairify. I don't NEED to clean it monthly. I chose to and really mean "spic and span." As in, clean pipe and flue walls. I'm a bit eager with our oversized masonry chimney that has a few issues at the crown, doubly so because this house (an old, 1890s rennovated one-room schoolhouse) actually lost the second floor in 2003 (7 years before we bought it) to a chimney fire. Putting in a liner next summer will be wonderful.

The creosote I'm seeing is very light glaze, nothing even remotely close to causing an issue, even over multiple seasons if I got lazy and let it go. 

With 36 feet of oversized masonry and a metal roof that forces me to clean from the bottom clean out in the winter, I make sure we never get meaningful buildup. It takes 20 minutes to run the brush up to the top, scrub on the way down, and vacuum out the debris. 

To your point, I agree that creosote means unburned fuel in the flue gas. It would be great if it was just fly ash, but I'm still very happy with the performance we're getting.


----------



## Case1030

SpaceBus said:


> That's probably just from moisture condensing on the BD area and then the ash is sticking to it. I have yet to see anything other than dark dust in my cookstove and heat stove (inside the unit and flue), but I don't smolder either of them.



Agreed but imagine a BD along the whole chimney lol. A masonry chimney will never reach internal wall temperature that an insulated chimney would. Even dry 15% firewood means alot of condensation able to fourm on a cold surface... unlike insulated pipe which can carry that moisture out the chimney.


----------



## SpaceBus

Case1030 said:


> Agreed but imagine a BD along the whole chimney lol. A masonry chimney will never reach internal wall temperature that an insulated chimney would. Even dry 15% firewood means alot of condensation able to fourm on a cold surface... unlike insulated pipe which can carry that moisture out the chimney.


My exterior class A chimney gets icicles at the top sometimes. It can happen in any chimney.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

9-1/2 hours into a full load with outside temps in the low teens, a brisk wind, and a house that's been sitting at 75*F all day.

I'll reload in about 90 minutes.


----------



## Gbawol42

FixedGearFlyer said:


> 9-1/2 hours into a full load with outside temps in the low teens, a brisk wind, and a house that's been sitting at 75*F all day.
> 
> I'll reload in about 90 minutes.




Wow your coals look like they burn so much hotter than my heatmax 2


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Gbawol42 said:


> Wow your coals look like they burn so much hotter than my heatmax 2



The metered air supply through the bottom ash grate is a game changer in getting useful heat out of the coal bed. Because it fires it with a direct air supply from underneath the coals, the furnace captures an amazing amount of heat from them and the house temps don’t drop until the coal bed is burned down significantly. 

It’s been 2 hours since I took that video and the furnace is still meeting the demand for heat and cycling the thermostat upstairs, despite a stiff wind and current temps at about 5*F.

I am both so very impressed with the furnace and so very warm and toasty in my house. :-D

On a night like this with the Tundra 1, we would have ended up with a deep coal bed that took a few hours to burn down, but that didn’t cycle the furnace fan and push heat into the house enough to maintain the set temperature. While waiting for the coal bed to thin out, the temps in the house would drop by 10 degrees. The Heat Commander seems to be able to keep up evenly through the entire burn. It makes me giddy!


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Gbawol42 said:


> Wow your coals look like they burn so much hotter than my heatmax 2



Here's what it looks like now, just shy of 12 hours into the burn. Between the last video and this one, I raked the coals over the grill. Raking the coals was the first and only time I touched the furnace after loading it at 9:00am this morning.

I'll keep an eye on the temps upstairs and reload when it finally stops keeping up. Thermostat is set to 70 and it's currently 71, so no reload, yet!


----------



## andym

FixedGearFlyer said:


> The metered air supply through the bottom ash grate is a game changer in getting useful heat out of the coal bed. Because it fires it with a direct air supply from underneath the coals, the furnace captures an amazing amount of heat from them and the house temps don’t drop until the coal bed is burned down significantly.
> 
> It’s been 2 hours since I took that video and the furnace is still meeting the demand for heat and cycling the thermostat upstairs, despite a stiff wind and current temps at about 5*F.
> 
> I am both so very impressed with the furnace and so very warm and toasty in my house. :-D
> 
> On a night like this with the Tundra 1, we would have ended up with a deep coal bed that took a few hours to burn down, but that didn’t cycle the furnace fan and push heat into the house enough to maintain the set temperature. While waiting for the coal bed to thin out, the temps in the house would drop by 10 degrees. The Heat Commander seems to be able to keep up evenly through the entire burn. It makes me giddy!


Wow! What kind of wood did you use for that load? 
I like my HMX2 but may consider an upgrade before the new stove credits expire!


----------



## brenndatomu

Sounds like everybody wants to dance with the new girl...


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> Wow! What kind of wood did you use for that load?
> I like my HMX2 but may consider an upgrade before the new stove credits expire!



Well-seasoned soft maple. We burn about 90% red maple with a bit of hard maple, birch, ash, and aspen mixed in.


----------



## andym

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Well-seasoned soft maple. We burn about 90% red maple with a bit of hard maple, birch, ash, and aspen mixed in.


You're burning better stuff than I am currently. All I've got inside at the moment is white elm. Im not seeing burntimes any  where near that impressive. My heat load is fairly high though.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> You're burning better stuff than I am currently. All I've got inside at the moment is white elm. Im not seeing burntimes any  where near that impressive. My heat load is fairly high though.



We didn't have burn times like that with the Tundra, either. We're easily getting 3 or 4 hours more heat, even though the coals are lasting about the same amount of time.

We have a mix-n-match house: the second floor is buttoned up tight with new windows, double stagger stud walls, and 7 inches of high-R insulation. 

The first floor is a drafty mess with old windows and poured polystyrene beads in the walls.


----------



## usernametaken

FixedGearFlyer said:


> The metered air supply through the bottom ash grate is a game changer in getting useful heat out of the coal bed. Because it fires it with a direct air supply from underneath the coals, the furnace captures an amazing amount of heat from them and the house temps don’t drop until the coal bed is burned down significantly.
> 
> It’s been 2 hours since I took that video and the furnace is still meeting the demand for heat and cycling the thermostat upstairs, despite a stiff wind and current temps at about 5*F.
> 
> I am both so very impressed with the furnace and so very warm and toasty in my house. :-D
> 
> On a night like this with the Tundra 1, we would have ended up with a deep coal bed that took a few hours to burn down, but that didn’t cycle the furnace fan and push heat into the house enough to maintain the set temperature. While waiting for the coal bed to thin out, the temps in the house would drop by 10 degrees. The Heat Commander seems to be able to keep up evenly through the entire burn. It makes me giddy!



This is my issue with the Max Caddy on really cold days. Either load early and get a ever increasing coal bed or wait for it to burn down enough for a proper reload while the house continues loosing temp. If this unit was rated to my sq/ft, I'd upgrade my 1 year old unit in a heartbeat. I'm still wondering why no larger models anymore from SBI? Meeting 2020 standards too challenging?


----------



## brenndatomu

usernametaken said:


> increasing coal bed or wait for it to burn down enough for a proper reload while the house continues loosing temp.


So what do you do when that happens?
Do you rake coals forward?
Add some pine?


----------



## usernametaken

I do rake them forward and when low enough use the smallest splits I can find in my piles to get it going hot/fast. That said, this isn't a super common issue. It takes single digit nights and/or lots of wind for it to happen which isn't super common in western MA. I'd say I'm 90-95% good as is but when it happens, the temptation to crack open the ash pan just a hair is tugging at my like a devil on my shoulder... 

Another thing I've learned to do is during the waking hours, per Caddy's instructions, I do smaller hotter fires. I use my smaller splits and load 4 in an angled crib so they criss cross a little with big gaps between them. This helps create less coals and burn down what coals are left under and around the crib...


----------



## brenndatomu

usernametaken said:


> I do rake them forward and when low enough use the smallest splits I can find in my piles to get it going hot/fast.


Doing this with pine or some other low/no coaling species will get you heat again while the coal pile burns down (without adding to it) especially if the splits are a little shorter and they can be stacked mainly behind the coal pile, but still touching it, that way the ashes don't cover/insulate the coals again...


----------



## usernametaken

I've read about that and may have to try some of my pine supply the next time I'm in that pinch. I have a rack of pine in the basement for our open fireplace in the LR so it could be sacrificial in this capacity as well.


----------



## sloeffle

When I see the fire is down to coals I just turn the timer to 60 minutes and walk away. Next time I come back, the coals are normally burned down to about nothing. I put my next load in and I'm back off to the races. The fan and bath timer mods are the two best mods you can make to your non-computer controlled furnace. 90% of the wood I'm burning is dead ash so I don't get the burn times like some folks do.

One of these days I'll have a fancy computer controller furnace.


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> The fan and bath timer mods are the two best mods you can make to your non-computer controlled furnace.


Isn't that one mod?


----------



## sloeffle

brenndatomu said:


> Isn't that one mod?


Hmmm,  I didn’t take common core math so I think it’s two mods. 

Please see my work below:

Fan mod  = 1 mod
Bath timer mod = 1 mod


----------



## usernametaken

You guys have to point me to a thread(s) to learn about said mod(s).... I'm up for some learning...


----------



## sloeffle

usernametaken said:


> You guys have to point me to a thread(s) to learn about said mod(s).... I'm up for some learning...


They are in the long tundra thread. @brenndatomu might know the page(s). I know the bath timer should work with your furnace but I’m not sure about the fan mod. Doesn’t the Max already adjust the fan speed based off of heat output ?


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> The fan and bath timer mods are the two best mods





sloeffle said:


> Hmmm,  I didn’t take common core math so I think it’s two mods.
> 
> Please see my work below:
> 
> Fan mod  = 1 mod
> Bath timer mod = 1 mod


Oh...well, see I read that as "fan-and-bath timer"...and since they are called bath fan timers... but I see what you were trying to get at   
I agree though...these mods turn the Caddy/Tundra style furnaces from dud, to stud! Well...dud might be a bit strong...
Mod 1, bath fan timer + mod 2, temp controller + mod 3,  speed controller, =  


sloeffle said:


> They are in the long tundra thread. @brenndatomu might know the page(s).


The first mention of the temp controller is page 13 IIRC...click on the link at the bottom of this post, it will take you to a index of sorts for that thread...go from there. The bath fan timer is really part of the temp contoller mod.
The blower speed controller...I guess that has been a bit of a "secret squirrel op" so far...little mentions of it here n there.
As far as if the Max has the "auto blower speed controls"...depends on the age I think...but even the newer ones still don't have true variable speed motors...just "multi speed"...that the computer selects the speed of...those can and have been improved upon too.


----------



## usernametaken

My blower has 6 speeds and the computer adjusts between them based on the plenum temp sensor. It it does not switch speeds based only on plenum temp though. It needs to see a sustained temp for a certain period of time before kicking up the speed. I'll hit the thread and do some reading. Thanks guys.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

So . . . I need to eat some crow. 

That light creosote buildup I mentioned? 

100% my fault.

If I leave the door cracked for 4 or 5 minutes instead of 1 or 2, the fresh load of wood is much more engaged and the Heat Commander goes straight to a beautiful secondary burn when the door is latches. 

I was rushing it before. The HC still got the fire up to a good burn, but all of the smoldering and creosote was from the start of the burn when I shut the door on a not-hot-enough fire that was mostly kindling burning. 

For the past 4 or 5 days, I've made sure the splits were all engaged and lively before closing the door and it's made all the difference.

Kudos to the HC for always saving my too-quick fire starts. Shame on me for taking the automated fire management of the HC a bit too far.


----------



## Boilers

I’m half tempted to upgrade from the Heatmax 2 to the new Commander. One thing kind of holding me back is the specs. It seems like you guys have reported longer burn times and increased output, but furnace specs aren’t any different than the Heatmax 2... what gives?


----------



## trx250r87

Boilers said:


> I’m half tempted to upgrade from the Heatmax 2 to the new Commander. One thing kind of holding me back is the specs. It seems like you guys have reported longer burn times and increased output, but furnace specs aren’t any different than the Heatmax 2... what gives?



I can only compare to the Tundra I previously had in the same house. The HC seems to deliver more heat into the house period! I also don't have to babysit the HC like I did with the Tundra. I much prefer the light and walk away approach. 

I was able to sell my Tundra for a reasonable amount. I figured it was about 6 years old and I might as well get something for it before major cracking or firebox failure. I also enrolled in SBI's "connected" program back in October. This made the Heat Commander upgrade a no-brainer for me. 

Eric


----------



## andym

Boilers said:


> I’m half tempted to upgrade from the Heatmax 2 to the new Commander. One thing kind of holding me back is the specs. It seems like you guys have reported longer burn times and increased output, but furnace specs aren’t any different than the Heatmax 2... what gives?


I also have a HMX2. I think the difference lies in two areas: the computer control gives a more even heat output. And it appears like the coal build up issue has been eliminated, thereby allowing you to reload sooner (when needed).


----------



## Boilers

trx250r87 said:


> I can only compare to the Tundra I previously had in the same house. The HC seems to deliver more heat into the house period! I also don't have to babysit the HC like I did with the Tundra. I much prefer the light and walk away approach.
> 
> I was able to sell my Tundra for a reasonable amount. I figured it was about 6 years old and I might as well get something for it before major cracking or firebox failure. I also enrolled in SBI's "connected" program back in October. This made the Heat Commander upgrade a no-brainer for me.
> 
> Eric



I guess I just find it odd.... even from the Heatmax 2 to the Commander, Drolet made major changes to the furnace, both physically and from a control standpoint. I just don’t understand how the specs ( heating sq ft, BTU, etc) haven’t changed whatsoever.  Actually comparing the two, Drolet has posted very few specs on the Commander compared to previous/other models.

I love my Heatmax but I have 2 rooms with no ducting and they tend to be chilly! From reading posts,I feel like the Commander could/should do the job a little better (plus provide some new features) but the current data doesn’t support that.


----------



## Gbawol42

I almost upgraded from my heatmax 2 myself just for the new coal burning down enhancements they did.  The computer burn I kinda already do with my "mods" that I have done to the furnace.  I feel however I need a little more btu in the house, so if they come out with an upgraded Heatpro model I might jump on that.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Boilers said:


> I guess I just find it odd.... even from the Heatmax 2 to the Commander, Drolet made major changes to the furnace, both physically and from a control standpoint. I just don’t understand how the specs ( heating sq ft, BTU, etc) haven’t changed whatsoever.  Actually comparing the two, Drolet has posted very few specs on the Commander compared to previous/other models.
> 
> I love my Heatmax but I have 2 rooms with no ducting and they tend to be chilly! From reading posts,I feel like the Commander could/should do the job a little better (plus provide some new features) but the current data doesn’t support that.



All I can offer is that after moving from the Tundra to the HC, we are toasty and warm like never before, even in the sub-zero weather we're having right now. Two full loads per day and we get 12 hours burns with a house temp sitting at 70 all day long. When it's in the teens, we were just doing one burn during the day.

The coaling changes are huge - in weather like this, we used to see the house temp drop 10+ degrees while trying to burn down the coal bed in the last 2 hours of a burn. Now, we get heat through all phases.

It's been absolutely fantastic!


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Two full loads per day and we get 12 hours burns with a house temp sitting at 70 all day long. When it's in the teens, we were just doing one burn during the day.


What do you do when its 30-40* out?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> What do you do when its 30-40* out?



If it was last year, we would have used electrix baseboard heat for a few hours or had a very small fire.

A month before the unexpected Heat Commander swap in November, we'd installed a PP130 pellet stove to help us keep more even heat during the shoulder seasons and the coaling stage of the Tundra. So, on those warmer teens and twenties winter days, we're running the HC during the day, the letting it cool to about 60 over night and using the PP130 with a Pellet Miser to hold it there if the house temps drop further.

If we'd known the HC was coming, I don't think we would have put the PP130 in.


----------



## maple1

FixedGearFlyer said:


> If it was last year, we would have used electrix baseboard heat for a few hours or had a very small fire.
> 
> A month before the unexpected Heat Commander swap in November, we'd installed a PP130 pellet stove to help us keep more even heat during the shoulder seasons and the coaling stage of the Tundra. So, on those warmer teens and twenties winter days, we're running the HC during the day, the letting it cool to about 60 over night and using the PP130 with a Pellet Miser to hold it there if the house temps drop further.
> 
> If we'd known the HC was coming, I don't think we would have put the PP130 in.



Cold climate mini-splits really shine for shoulder and in between situations.


----------



## usernametaken

FixedGearFlyer said:


> All I can offer is that after moving from the Tundra to the HC, we are toasty and warm like never before, even in the sub-zero weather we're having right now. Two full loads per day and we get 12 hours burns with a house temp sitting at 70 all day long. When it's in the teens, we were just doing one burn during the day.
> 
> The coaling changes are huge - in weather like this, we used to see the house temp drop 10+ degrees while trying to burn down the coal bed in the last 2 hours of a burn. Now, we get heat through all phases.
> 
> It's been absolutely fantastic!




Posts like this keep me wondering if the HC could handle our square footage and huge duct runs. My biggest complaint with the Max Caddy as said before is when it's really cold, there is a big temp drop waiting for the coals to burn down. Sure, I can reload on a tall coal bed but that will just make the coal bed deeper at the end of the next burn cycle. The timer mods etc. won't help me because if I'm nearing a reload, the intake damper is open anyway. The only thing I can really do is cheat and crack the ash clean out a bit to get some air up under the coal bed which works but is a system I would consider suboptimal because of all the babysitting. 

Another thing that has me interested is less frequent loading. To have total control over my system I do more frequent, smaller loads during the day. This allows me to keep the fire really hot on colder days or let it burn down some on average days so we don't overheat the house. Doing this I can keep my place between 70-72 all day with all three thermostats set at 72. But again, it's babysitting. Currently, I really don't mind because I'm stuck at home all day with my daughter doing remote schooling during C19 and this gives me something to do. However,  doing two loads a day as described here is intriguing.


----------



## brenndatomu

usernametaken said:


> Posts like this keep me wondering if the HC could handle our square footage and huge duct runs.


I bet we will see a Max Caddy version of the HC before long...


----------



## usernametaken

brenndatomu said:


> I bet we will see a Max Caddy version of the HC before long...



I was hoping so BUT @SBI_Nick didn't seem very positive on a bigger unit being needed or happening when he commented on it earlier in this thread. I would absolutely take advantage of the Tax Credit this year or next if PSG came out with a version that would work in my home. As it stands, PSG's website is still showing no products available so it must be taking them a while to get their new versions to market. If only Nick could give me a hint...


----------



## JRHAWK9

usernametaken said:


> As it stands, PSG's website is still showing no products available so it must be taking them a while to get their new versions to market.



It's just a wild guess, but I'm thinking they are using the HC as their "guinea pig" to see how things go in the real world for a new product.  They will then make any needed changes/revisions/updates and apply them to the Caddy line.  I don't think it's smart business practice to release a brand new product under numerous models before they get everything dialed in from real world feedback over time.  This is where all you first to buy HC buyers come in.


----------



## usernametaken

JRHAWK9 said:


> It's just a wild guess, but I'm thinking they are using the HC as their "guinea pig" to see how things go in the real world for a new product.  They will then make any needed changes/revisions/updates and apply them to the Caddy line.  I don't think it's smart business practice to release a brand new product under numerous models before they get everything dialed in from real world feedback over time.  This is where all you first to buy HC buyers come in.



I don't think so. They already have the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR on the EPA approval list. I'm guessing they wouldn't got through the trouble of getting it approved if the design wasn't finalized.


----------



## brenndatomu

Seems to me like leaving the 2500 sq ft and up homeowners just hanging in the wind for SBI wood furnace options would be shortsighted on their part...I dunno, maybe that market isn't as big as I think it is (no pun intended  )


usernametaken said:


> They already have the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR on the EPA approval list. I'm guessing they wouldn't got through the trouble of getting it approved if the design wasn't finalized.


This makes me wonder...how are there software updates being done to the Heat Commanders? It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Seems to me like leaving the 2500 sq ft and up homeowners just hanging in the wind for SBI wood furnace options would be shortsighted on their part...I dunno, maybe that market isn't as big as I think it is (no pun intended  )
> 
> This makes me wonder...how are there software updates being done to the Heat Commanders? It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?



Updates have been emailed, downloaded to flash drive, then installed via USB port on main circuit board at the rear of the HC.

I don't know if this is/will be the norm after a few minor tweaks have been made early on.  I think I recall SBI saying that they couldn't adjust some of the programming algorithms due to EPA certification rules?

Eric


----------



## SpaceBus

Could the end user make changes? Sounds like an interesting idea. Folks tune automotive ECUs all the time.


----------



## trx250r87

SpaceBus said:


> Could the end user make changes? Sounds like an interesting idea. Folks tune automotive ECUs all the time.


That sure would be nice but I highly doubt it!
Eric


----------



## woodey

brenndatomu said:


> It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?


Interesting question, It would be nice  to hear the  views  of manufacturers of wood burning  stoves/furnaces who have gone through the EPA  certification testing.


----------



## sloeffle

SpaceBus said:


> Could the end user make changes? Sounds like an interesting idea. Folks tune automotive ECUs all the time.


I'd pass. These are devices that can burn my house down.


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> Updates have been emailed, downloaded to flash drive, then installed via USB port on main circuit board at the rear of the HC.
> 
> I don't know if this is/will be the norm after a few minor tweaks have been made early on.  I think I recall SBI saying that they couldn't adjust some of the programming algorithms due to EPA certification rules?
> 
> Eric


Right...but my understanding was there could be NO changes after certification, none, zero...not even on things that have nothing to do with how it burns (which I thought sounded ridiculous)


----------



## trx250r87

While I don't expect the average user to go tweaking programming code it would be nice to see a few user adjustable settings such as dip switches like a normal forced air furnace might have. This way we could select different fan speed presets, cut in/out temperatures, timers....

There are no 2 installs that are the same. The HC does a pretty good job, better than past SBI furnaces at adjusting or adapting. 

Eric


----------



## woodey

sloeffle said:


> I'd pass. These are devices that can burn my house down.


If it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## SpaceBus

sloeffle said:


> I'd pass. These are devices that can burn my house down.


And many folks have modified their stoves. I think it would be hard to burn down the house with a properly installed chimney.


----------



## sloeffle

trx250r87 said:


> While I don't expect the average user to go tweaking programming code it would be nice to see a few user adjustable settings such as dip switches like a normal forced air furnace might have. This way we could select different fan speed presets, cut in/out temperatures, timers....


Oh, you can't set any of that on the HC ? Hmmmm, maybe I will stick with my old school Caddy.


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> Oh, you can't set any of that on the HC ? Hmmmm, maybe I will stick with my old school Caddy.


Yup , you can still tweak the heck outta those aftermarket controllers!


----------



## sloeffle

SpaceBus said:


> And many folks have modified their stoves. I think it would be hard to burn down the house with a properly installed chimney.


Writing PLC code and making physical modifications, adding a speed controller or maybe a simple relay switch are two different things. Writing PLC code is a very specialized field. You just can't hook a off the shelf programmer to your HC and change the settings like you can a car. I write some code for a living and I wouldn't even know where to start at on how to program a PLC.


----------



## sloeffle

Back on topic. 

I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the manual for the HC. Is it a black box / plug and play type unit that you can't change any settings on ?


----------



## usernametaken

It's amazing what can be done when the right folks start investigating the code. I'm a mod over on a Ford truck forum. One of our most popular threads is about a free program called Forscan. With it you can turn on an off all kinds of options in your truck. However, it's not like a tuner where you can blow up the motor if you're not careful by altering fueling parameters, etc. . It's more like the example above where you can flip the digital version of a dip switch. For example, for legal reasons, you can't have your high beams and fog lights on at the same time so Ford has this blocked. It can be unblocked with Forscan. Same goes with entering a destination into your navigation system while the vehicle is in motion. Blocked in the US for legal reasons but legal in other countries so you make the change with Forscan and you simply put the truck in UK mode where it's legal. Auto roll down windows are ok but auto roll up... yup, litigation waiting to happen so blocked from the factory but unblocked with Forscan. It's as simple as changing a single character in the HEX. The list goes on and on but you get the idea. I'm guessing there are things like this in a computerized furnace controller that can be changed without burning one's house down but who's going to get in there and figure it out?

PS: If anyone is curious about Forscan, be sure to spell it correctly when Googling...


----------



## brenndatomu

usernametaken said:


> PS: If anyone is curious about Forscan, be sure to spell it correctly when Googling...


----------



## trx250r87

usernametaken said:


> It's amazing what can be done when the right folks start investigating the code. I'm a mod over on a Ford truck forum. One of our most popular threads is about a free program called Forscan. With it you can turn on an off all kinds of options in your truck. However, it's not like a tuner where you can blow up the motor if you're not careful by altering fueling parameters, etc. . It's more like the example above where you can flip the digital version of a dip switch. For example, for legal reasons, you can't have your high beams and fog lights on at the same time so Ford has this blocked. It can be unblocked with Forscan. Same goes with entering a destination into your navigation system while the vehicle is in motion. Blocked in the US for legal reasons but legal in other countries so you make the change with Forscan and you simply put the truck in UK mode where it's legal. Auto roll down windows are ok but auto roll up... yup, litigation waiting to happen so blocked from the factory but unblocked with Forscan. It's as simple as changing a single character in the HEX. The list goes on and on but you get the idea. I'm guessing there are things like this in a computerized furnace controller that can be changed without burning one's house down but who's going to get in there and figure it out?
> 
> PS: If anyone is curious about Forscan, be sure to spell it correctly when Googling...


I'm also on one of those Ford forums, I have Forscan and have tweaked numerous settings on my f150.

I'm sure someone could reverse engineer SBI's code and come up with a way to modify it, however, comparing Forscan and the number of Ford vehicles produced vs "programmable" wood stoves isn't exactly apples to apples in comparison!

I don't think your average wood burning fanatic is going to start tweaking wood furnace code any time soon. There are a few pretty smart individuals on this site for sure though!

Eric


----------



## woodey

trx250r87 said:


> I don't think your average wood burning fanatic is going to start tweaking wood furnace code any time soon.


I can think of a few who might.


----------



## usernametaken

trx250r87 said:


> I'm sure someone could reverse engineer SBI's code and come up with a way to modify it, however, comparing Forscan and the number of Ford vehicles produced vs "programmable" wood stoves isn't exactly apples to apples in comparison!
> 
> I don't think your average wood burning fanatic is going to start tweaking wood furnace code any time soon. There are a few pretty smart individuals on this site for sure though!
> 
> Eric



That was exactly the point of my post Eric... It can be done but likely won't....


----------



## Boilers

sloeffle said:


> Writing PLC code and making physical modifications, adding a speed controller or maybe a simple relay switch are two different things. Writing PLC code is a very specialized field. You just can't hook a off the shelf programmer to your HC and change the settings like you can a car. I write some code for a living and I wouldn't even know where to start at on how to program a PLC.



Would you look at that! An old PLC 5 controlling my damper based on a thermocouple... complete with push buttons to initiate cold and hot start sequences. Sad thats really all this thing is doing right now!   Plenty of built-in failsafes also. I have the analog cards to put the fan on a VFD also, but haven’t gotten around to it. I’ve also thought about a continuously variable damper control, but haven’t gotten to that either. I really want to put an HMI on here and start logging some data... burn times, temperatures, house temps, propane furnace run times, etc. endless possibilities really. Could network it to an SQL database.... ok I’m done. My inner geek almost came out. And yeah this stuff is all off the shelf, but the software/licensing alone might cost you $5k.


----------



## SpaceBus

I just don't see why it would be such a big deal to modify the code. You wouldn't have to rewrite the whole thing. It also wouldn't be hard to install an interface between the processor and the peripherals and make changes downstream rather than tweak the code. Perhaps to some of the forum members it's a big task that nobody would ever attempt, but I see all kinds of normal people of all ages writing code for arduinos, Rasberry Pi, entire programs, etc. Maybe it's not often that programmers own wood stoves, but nobody expected a pandemic to come either. Plenty of smart people have plenty of free time now. I'm also not sure why it is off topic to discuss the hardware and software this computer controlled wood burning furnace uses.


----------



## SBI_Nick

Hi everyone,

There are some points that we would like to address.

*The specifications between the Heat Commander and its predecessor the Tundra/Heatmax:*

The main reason the specs are pretty much the same is because we wanted to have a similar product. The size of the firebox is the same, but in fact if you measure each one you will find that Heat Commander one is a bit larger to incorporate a better brick pattern and improve production. So why is it the same? Because the two were not measured in the same way, some areas were considered to be part of the combustion chamber volume which were rejected at this time because we felt that the user should not be put wood there (Ex: the steel lip between the glass and the brick was considered part of the volume of the Heat Max, but we don't think it is a good idea to do this). Regarding the heating area, it has always been a debate here. How do you determine the right size of the heating area for a product? You can have the same house in a different climate zone which required a different heating input. The only way to properly size the furnace is to determine the heat input required for your home. Knowing the maximum heat output of the furnace (42,234 BTU / h delivered to the plenum and 47,052 BTU / h overall) and the heat input required to heat your home, you will be able to determine if the furnace is large enough or not. The maximum heat output is determined during a test where the thermostat is always calling for heat, therefore we do not recommend using this value. The furnace can achieve it but isn't designed to run at is maximum capacity all the time.

*** Important *** To select the correct size unit, you must use a value of approximately 30,000 to 35,000 btu at a baseline. Why do we recommend this? Because the furnace is not designed to burn at full capacity all day and if needed, you will have enough power for the colder days.

We are convinced that the Heat Commander can heat a larger home than its predecessor. If you are willing to load the furnace more frequently, it could probably heat up even more. The biggest gain over the Tundra / Heatmax is the smoother heat distribution throughout a burn. Automation makes it user-friendly and ensures better overall comfort and less babysitting. Another difference is that the Heat Commander uses a larger blower than the Tundra / Heatmax, which should help with a longer plenum in a larger house.

*Software update*

To be clear, we are not allowed to make any changes that will affect the emissions. Whether it's software or physical changes. After approval, all documentation and algorithm are forwarded to the EPA. We are also inspected at the factory to confirm that our products are still compliant. If we make any changes that could affect emissions performance, they must be submitted, approved or retested.

*What’s coming next*

There is always stress when you launch new technology in the field. We did extensive testing before bringing the HC to market, but it's still difficult to represent actual use. We are still heating units here and are in touch with users for their feedback.

Now that we have a few months of heating, we can say that we are quite happy with the performance of the Heat Commander. As some know, the Caddy range will be complemented by the Caddy Advanced. The new family member is expected to be in production during the summer. The Caddy Advanced will be an upgraded version of the Heat Commander for HVAC instead of DIY users.

COMING SOON








Nicolas


----------



## usernametaken

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> There are some points that we would like to address.
> 
> *The specifications between the Heat Commander and its predecessor the Tundra/Heatmax:*
> 
> The main reason the specs are pretty much the same is because we wanted to have a similar product. The size of the firebox is the same, but in fact if you measure each one you will find that Heat Commander one is a bit larger to incorporate a better brick pattern and improve production. So why is it the same? Because the two were not measured in the same way, some areas were considered to be part of the combustion chamber volume which were rejected at this time because we felt that the user should not be put wood there (Ex: the steel lip between the glass and the brick was considered part of the volume of the Heat Max, but we don't think it is a good idea to do this). Regarding the heating area, it has always been a debate here. How do you determine the right size of the heating area for a product? You can have the same house in a different climate zone which required a different heating input. The only way to properly size the furnace is to determine the heat input required for your home. Knowing the maximum heat output of the furnace (42,234 BTU / h delivered to the plenum and 47,052 BTU / h overall) and the heat input required to heat your home, you will be able to determine if the furnace is large enough or not. The maximum heat output is determined during a test where the thermostat is always calling for heat, therefore we do not recommend using this value. The furnace can achieve it but isn't designed to run at is maximum capacity all the time.
> 
> *** Important *** To select the correct size unit, you must use a value of approximately 30,000 to 35,000 btu at a baseline. Why do we recommend this? Because the furnace is not designed to burn at full capacity all day and if needed, you will have enough power for the colder days.
> 
> We are convinced that the Heat Commander can heat a larger home than its predecessor. If you are willing to load the furnace more frequently, it could probably heat up even more. The biggest gain over the Tundra / Heatmax is the smoother heat distribution throughout a burn. Automation makes it user-friendly and ensures better overall comfort and less babysitting. Another difference is that the Heat Commander uses a larger blower than the Tundra / Heatmax, which should help with a longer plenum in a larger house.
> 
> *Software update*
> 
> To be clear, we are not allowed to make any changes that will affect the emissions. Whether it's software or physical changes. After approval, all documentation and algorithm are forwarded to the EPA. We are also inspected at the factory to confirm that our products are still compliant. If we make any changes that could affect emissions performance, they must be submitted, approved or retested.
> 
> *What’s coming next*
> 
> There is always stress when you launch new technology in the field. We did extensive testing before bringing the HC to market, but it's still difficult to represent actual use. We are still heating units here and are in touch with users for their feedback.
> 
> Now that we have a few months of heating, we can say that we are quite happy with the performance of the Heat Commander. As some know, the Caddy range will be complemented by the Caddy Advanced. The new family member is expected to be in production during the summer. The Caddy Advanced will be an upgraded version of the Heat Commander for HVAC instead of DIY users.
> 
> COMING SOON
> View attachment 274266
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nicolas




Great info Nicolas! Can you comment on the difference between the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR? Also, if you need anyone stateside to do some real world testing, I'm here for you...


----------



## Boilers

usernametaken said:


> Great info Nicolas! Can you comment on the difference between the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR? Also, if you need anyone stateside to do some real world testing, I'm here for you...


@SBI_Nick 
yes! Sign me up for Caddy testing or a HeatPro sized unit. I promise not to tinker with the code or anything like that.


----------



## sloeffle

Boilers said:


> @SBI_Nick
> yes! Sign me up for Caddy testing or a HeatPro sized unit. I promise not to tinker with the code or anything like that.


I'd be a happy guinea pig too for Caddy testing too. And yes, I promise to not to tinker with the furnace.


----------



## trx250r87

I woke up to -13 degrees F outside temperature this morning, not sure what the wind-chill was. At 6am, 8 hours after loading the furnace, the house was at 70 degrees and Heat Commander blower was still delivering heat to the house. I reloaded on minimal hot coals and the house temperature started climbing within 20 minutes to 71 degrees.

I really noticed a difference when I lowered the included thermostat temp by 1 degree. The HC burns are longer and even more even, consistent heat is delivered!

9 times out of 10 the house is at 70 degrees when I wake up. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> I really noticed a difference when I lowered the included thermostat temp by 1 degree. The HC burns are longer and even more even, consistent heat is delivered!


Not following you here? You literally lowered the Tstat 1*...how's that help?
I've always thought that old school wood furnaces (simple open/closed style air control) could benefit from a Tstat with really tight hysteresis, like 0.1*, or something like that...no long runs of low burn, or high burn...


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Not following you here? You literally lowered the Tstat 1*...how's that help?
> I've always thought that old school wood furnaces (simple open/closed style air control) could benefit from a Tstat with really tight hysteresis, like 0.1*, or something like that...no long runs of low burn, or high burn...


Y
Yes, literally lowered it 1 degree, from 71 to 70. This must be a sweet spot for my setup. It caused the furnace to enter "energy saving" mode earlier in the burn and stay there longer. While in this mode the intake air is reduced and the blower fan cycles on/off every few minutes as the plenum temps cycle. 

Keep in mind I installed the dedicated thermostat that is included with the HC about 10' away, at the bottom of my basement stairs. 

Eric


----------



## JRHAWK9

trx250r87 said:


> I woke up to -13 degrees F outside temperature this morning, not sure what the wind-chill was. At 6am, 8 hours after loading the furnace, the house was at 70 degrees and Heat Commander blower was still delivering heat to the house. I reloaded on minimal hot coals and the house temperature started climbing within 20 minutes to 71 degrees.
> 
> I really noticed a difference when I lowered the included thermostat temp by 1 degree. The HC burns are longer and even more even, consistent heat is delivered!
> 
> 9 times out of 10 the house is at 70 degrees when I wake up.
> 
> Eric



You are in the same cold snap we are in.  Six nights in a row of double digit below zero lows/single digit daytime highs and we are about half way through.      -14° here this morning.  We are in a low lying area and it always seems to get colder here than the forecast.  The automated coal burn down on those HC's would be a great feature to have when one needs it, like during these cold snaps.  Is there a way to disable it though?  98% of the time most people would not need it and it would not benefit them when it's not very cold.  Some of us, outside of these cold temps, actually do things to prolong coals in order to reduce the BTU/hr output of the unit when the heat is not needed in order to not overheat the house.  Also to maintain the embers as long as possible in order to help facilitate a re-light later on when it's time to do so.  Just curious, as it would be very handy to have for the handful of times it would be beneficial, but would be nice to be able to disable it for the majority of the time it's not needed or wanted.


----------



## trx250r87

JRHAWK9 said:


> You are in the same cold snap we are in.  Six nights in a row of double digit below zero lows/single digit daytime highs and we are about half way through.      -14° here this morning.  We are in a low lying area and it always seems to get colder here than the forecast.  The automated coal burn down on those HC's would be a great feature to have when one needs it, like during these cold snaps.  Is there a way to disable it though?  98% of the time most people would not need it and it would not benefit them when it's not very cold.  Some of us, outside of these cold temps, actually do things to prolong coals in order to reduce the BTU/hr output of the unit when the heat is not needed in order to not overheat the house.  Also to maintain the embers as long as possible in order to help facilitate a re-light later on when it's time to do so.  Just curious, as it would be very handy to have for the handful of times it would be beneficial, but would be nice to be able to disable it for the majority of the time it's not needed or wanted.


There is no option to prolong coals unfortunately. That is about the ONLY thing I miss about the Tundra. It has taken some time to get used to this but I'm getting better at judging how long I have until I need to reload. 

Eric


----------



## SBI_Nick

trx250r87 said:


> There is no option to prolong coals unfortunately. That is about the ONLY thing I miss about the Tundra. It has taken some time to get used to this but I'm getting better at judging how long I have until I need to reload.
> 
> Eric



You can't disable it, but as long as you don't have a call for for heat it will stay closed.


----------



## JRHAWK9

SBI_Nick said:


> You can't disable it, but as long as you don't have a call for for heat it will stay closed.



That would work.


----------



## andym

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> There are some points that we would like to address.
> 
> *The specifications between the Heat Commander and its predecessor the Tundra/Heatmax:*
> 
> The main reason the specs are pretty much the same is because we wanted to have a similar product. The size of the firebox is the same, but in fact if you measure each one you will find that Heat Commander one is a bit larger to incorporate a better brick pattern and improve production. So why is it the same? Because the two were not measured in the same way, some areas were considered to be part of the combustion chamber volume which were rejected at this time because we felt that the user should not be put wood there (Ex: the steel lip between the glass and the brick was considered part of the volume of the Heat Max, but we don't think it is a good idea to do this). Regarding the heating area, it has always been a debate here. How do you determine the right size of the heating area for a product? You can have the same house in a different climate zone which required a different heating input. The only way to properly size the furnace is to determine the heat input required for your home. Knowing the maximum heat output of the furnace (42,234 BTU / h delivered to the plenum and 47,052 BTU / h overall) and the heat input required to heat your home, you will be able to determine if the furnace is large enough or not. The maximum heat output is determined during a test where the thermostat is always calling for heat, therefore we do not recommend using this value. The furnace can achieve it but isn't designed to run at is maximum capacity all the time.
> 
> *** Important *** To select the correct size unit, you must use a value of approximately 30,000 to 35,000 btu at a baseline. Why do we recommend this? Because the furnace is not designed to burn at full capacity all day and if needed, you will have enough power for the colder days.
> 
> We are convinced that the Heat Commander can heat a larger home than its predecessor. If you are willing to load the furnace more frequently, it could probably heat up even more. The biggest gain over the Tundra / Heatmax is the smoother heat distribution throughout a burn. Automation makes it user-friendly and ensures better overall comfort and less babysitting. Another difference is that the Heat Commander uses a larger blower than the Tundra / Heatmax, which should help with a longer plenum in a larger house.
> 
> *Software update*
> 
> To be clear, we are not allowed to make any changes that will affect the emissions. Whether it's software or physical changes. After approval, all documentation and algorithm are forwarded to the EPA. We are also inspected at the factory to confirm that our products are still compliant. If we make any changes that could affect emissions performance, they must be submitted, approved or retested.
> 
> *What’s coming next*
> 
> There is always stress when you launch new technology in the field. We did extensive testing before bringing the HC to market, but it's still difficult to represent actual use. We are still heating units here and are in touch with users for their feedback.
> 
> Now that we have a few months of heating, we can say that we are quite happy with the performance of the Heat Commander. As some know, the Caddy range will be complemented by the Caddy Advanced. The new family member is expected to be in production during the summer. The Caddy Advanced will be an upgraded version of the Heat Commander for HVAC instead of DIY u
> Nicolas


Very helpful information.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

Prepare yourself! This video is a riveting 20 minutes of watching the Heat Commander establish a fire from a cold start. 

SBI asked me for details of our cold start process and I thought I'd post it here, too. The key points are below and the summary is that it takes less than 20 minutes for the Heat Commander to establish a nice, efficient secondary burn on a cold start with a full firebox of wood.

The match is lit around 30 seconds. 
6:00 - the door is closed and latched. 
9:45 - Heat Commander closes down the air supply. 
12:00 - Heat Commander opens the air supply. 
13:45 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the 2nd time. 
17:23 - Heat Commander opens the air supply. 
18:50 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the third and last time. An efficient, clean secondary burn is nicely established.
The four things I did were load the firebox, light the kindling, press the load/reload button, and close and latch the door, all of which are done in the first 6 minutes. Everything else is managed by the furnace.

For reference, the box is filled with wrist-sized, soft maple splits that are all below 15% M.C., the kindling is bone-dry white cedar split pencil-thin, and the two knotted pieces of newspaper help get the draft going quickly.


----------



## trx250r87

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Prepare yourself! This video is a riveting 20 minutes of watching the Heat Commander establish a fire from a cold start.
> 
> SBI asked me for details of our cold start process and I thought I'd post it here, too. The key points are below and the summary is that it takes less than 20 minutes for the Heat Commander to establish a nice, efficient secondary burn on a cold start with a full firebox of wood.
> 
> The match is lit around 30 seconds.
> 6:00 - the door is closed and latched.
> 9:45 - Heat Commander closes down the air supply.
> 12:00 - Heat Commander opens the air supply.
> 13:45 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the 2nd time.
> 17:23 - Heat Commander opens the air supply.
> 18:50 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the third and last time. An efficient, clean secondary burn is nicely established.
> The four things I did were load the firebox, light the kindling, press the load/reload button, and close and latch the door, all of which are done in the first 6 minutes. Everything else is managed by the furnace.
> 
> For reference, the box is filled with wrist-sized, soft maple splits that are all below 15% M.C., the kindling is bone-dry white cedar split pencil-thin, and the two knotted pieces of newspaper help get the draft going quickly.




Great video! It's always nice to see other peoples methods. I have not tried the vertical kindling trick and I don't think I have had flames that blue/purple with mine, or is that just how your camera picks up the flame?  I also mainly burn red oak vs maple and don't leave my door cracked for that long.

What was the outside temperature, what was your draft set at and how long until you had to reload?

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Prepare yourself! This video is a riveting 20 minutes of watching the Heat Commander establish a fire from a cold start.
> 
> SBI asked me for details of our cold start process and I thought I'd post it here, too. The key points are below and the summary is that it takes less than 20 minutes for the Heat Commander to establish a nice, efficient secondary burn on a cold start with a full firebox of wood.
> 
> The match is lit around 30 seconds.
> 6:00 - the door is closed and latched.
> 9:45 - Heat Commander closes down the air supply.
> 12:00 - Heat Commander opens the air supply.
> 13:45 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the 2nd time.
> 17:23 - Heat Commander opens the air supply.
> 18:50 - Heat Commander closes the air supply for the third and last time. An efficient, clean secondary burn is nicely established.
> The four things I did were load the firebox, light the kindling, press the load/reload button, and close and latch the door, all of which are done in the first 6 minutes. Everything else is managed by the furnace.
> 
> For reference, the box is filled with wrist-sized, soft maple splits that are all below 15% M.C., the kindling is bone-dry white cedar split pencil-thin, and the two knotted pieces of newspaper help get the draft going quickly.



Is that real time video? Flames look awful "fast"...


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

trx250r87 said:


> Great video! It's always nice to see other peoples methods. I have not tried the vertical kindling trick and I don't think I have had flames that blue/purple with mine, or is that just how your camera picks up the flame?  I also mainly burn red oak vs maple and don't leave my door cracked for that long.
> 
> What was the outside temperature, what was your draft set at and how long until you had to reload?
> 
> Eric



We have to leave the door cracked that long with this method to ensure that the primary logs are properly charred and engaged. It's cheating and not the best method - it would be better to light a cold furnace with a smaller load and a top down fire, but this works and is less time in the end. That kindling is BONE DRY cedar, so we don't need the paper to light it - you just touch it with a match and it goes. The paper helps get the draft going more quickly, though. 

I think the camera is just picking up a strange color balance and knocking down the exposure some. 

The outside temp was -6*F, light North wind, draft is controlled with a baro at a max of 0.06" W.C., and we'll reload after about 12 hours.In this weather, we've been loading around 9:00am and 9:00pm with a full firebox each time.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

brenndatomu said:


> Is that real time video? Flames look awful "fast"...



It is, but even though it's at 1x speed, it looks fast on camera for some reason.


----------



## andym

What would the exhaust temp have been at end of video? What would it have peaked at during the video?


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> What would the exhaust temp have been at end of video? What would it have peaked at during the video?



During the video, I'm note sure. It was early in the burn.

Typically, we see temps on the heat exchanger door of about 300-325*F and flue pipe temps around 250-275*F when the furnace is cruising at mid-burn. That's a single wall pipe with thermometer mounted about 4 inches after the furnace collar.

I paid a lot closer attention to those numbers with the Tundra I because we had control of the damper. I don't pay as much attention now, since the HC is doing the work and it was doing a splendid job of managing it all when I was number-peeping in the beginning.

Also, it's at about 10 hours and we just hit the heavy coaling stage. We're on target for a 9pm hot reload and we've been at 70*F with single digits and a North wind all day on that one load.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

andym said:


> What would the exhaust temp have been at end of video? What would it have peaked at during the video?



In the heavy coaling stage right now, we're at 250*F on the heat exchanger door and 180-ish on the flue pipe.


----------



## andym

Probably similar numbers to what I'm seeing then (HMX2). My temp control limits it at 640 (internal) during start up. It cruises starting at 350 down to 250 or 260. 
But that coal bed is no comparison. That is impressive.


----------



## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> Also, it's at about 10 hours and we just hit the heavy coaling stage. We're on target for a 9pm hot reload and we've been at 70*F with single digits and a North wind all day on that one load.



What's really impressive to me is your home's heatload!  A full firebox in your HC is probably around 50-60 lbs of oak (even less if you use ash or other less dense wood), seeing it's a bit smaller firebox than my Kuuma.  Using 6,500BTU's/LB of wood, and assuming 55lbs per load, you are putting into your house an average of around 30,000 BTU's/hr GROSS over a day.  You need to take in account furnace efficiency yet off of that number.....so more realistically around 23,000 BTU's per hour average over a day.  Like I said, even less if you are burning ash, elm, etc.  Granted I'm keeping our home a bit warmer, but I go through pretty much double what you are heating our pig of a place in these double digit below zero nights and low single digit highs.    We also used to use 1,300 gallons of LP a year though too keeping just the upstairs 68°.  

These have been our high/low's over the past 7 days, not counting today yet.  Today's high was -1° though, supposed to get down to -15° tonight.






Anyway, I'm jealous of your heatload in these temps.


----------



## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> In the heavy coaling stage right now, we're at 250*F on the heat exchanger door and 180-ish on the flue pipe.
> 
> View attachment 274475




This appears to be a magnetic gauge?  If so, you really should have a probe type for measuring internal flue temp of the gasses.  Internal flue gasses are typically double that of what the external pipe measures on it's surface like that.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

JRHAWK9 said:


> This appears to be a magnetic gauge?  If so, you really should have a probe type for measuring internal flue temp of the gasses.  Internal flue gasses are typically double that of what the external pipe measures on it's surface like that.



Agreed. There just isn't much reason for me to put one in on this furnace - there's a flue gas temp probe connected to the SBI data pack and I can't adjust anything that would affect it, anyway. Me reading the flue temps is just for a general baseline of performance, not for actual management of the burn.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

JRHAWK9 said:


> What's really impressive to me is your home's heatload!  A full firebox in your HC is probably around 50-60 lbs of oak (even less if you use ash or other less dense wood), seeing it's a bit smaller firebox than my Kuuma.  Using 6,500BTU's/LB of wood, and assuming 55lbs per load, you are putting into your house an average of around 30,000 BTU's/hr GROSS over a day.  You need to take in account furnace efficiency yet off of that number.....so more realistically around 23,000 BTU's per hour average over a day.  Like I said, even less if you are burning ash, elm, etc.  Granted I'm keeping our home a bit warmer, but I go through pretty much double what you are heating our pig of a place in these double digit below zero nights and low single digit highs.    We also used to use 1,300 gallons of LP a year though too keeping just the upstairs 68°.
> 
> These have been our high/low's over the past 7 days, not counting today yet.  Today's high was -1° though, supposed to get down to -15° tonight.
> 
> View attachment 274479
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm jealous of your heatload in these temps.



We're exclusively burning red maple.

Our house is a 32x32 rennovated one-room schoolhouse. We completely stripped and rebuilt the second floor with doubled, offset studs for a thermal break and had high-R blown in insulation put in both the walls and ceiling. It's so efficient up there that we usually keep the second floor duct run closed off or it gets too warm to sleep.

The block basement is insulated with foam board on the walls and both sealed foam (as a vapor barrier) and batts on the rim joists. The basement sits around 58 to 60*F from the radiant heat off the furnace, plus I added two registers with the Heat Commander so we can warm it up more, if we want.

The first floor is a mixed bag. We've redone all of the windows and the North and East walls. The West and South walls, however, are still loose-bead poured styrofoam insulation and a cold South wind is really rough for us. 

The HC is a total game changer, though. The temp swings through various burn phases are gone and the amount of wood we're using on these cold, two-load days is about 30% less.

Our actual wood reduction for the season will be impossible to pin down because we put in a pellet stove on a thermostat on the main floor for those low-load shoulder season days and the warmer Winter overnights when an evening load in the furnace would be too much but we don't want to wake up to a 50*F first floor.

We literally put in the pellet stove a week before the Heat Commander became an option for us through the SBI connected furnace data gathering program. 

All told, we averaged 5 full cords for the 6 years we had the Tundra and no pellet stove. We put 4.5 seasoned cords in the basement in late October . . . And have only burned 1.25 so far. I'll be surprised if we use even half the wood that we used to burn between the HC and the PP130.


----------



## JRHAWK9

FixedGearFlyer said:


> I'll be surprised if we use even half the wood that we used to burn between the HC and the PP130.



If the HC does better at even heating you should be able to use that solely instead of burning $$ by paying for pellets.  Last time I checked, pellets are $$$ than using LP.    With the more even heat throughout the burn you should be able to manage the shoulder seasons with the HC.  I know Kuuma also has a nice even heat output and is pretty easy to manage during the shoulder seasons by just loading the correct amount of wood.


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

JRHAWK9 said:


> If the HC does better at even heating you should be able to use that solely instead of burning $$ by paying for pellets.  Last time I checked, pellets are $$$ than using LP.    With the more even heat throughout the burn you should be able to manage the shoulder seasons with the HC.  I know Kuuma also has a nice even heat output and is pretty easy to manage during the shoulder seasons by just loading the correct amount of wood.



We don't have LP or natural gas, just electric baseboard and biomass. The pellets are great for both knocking the chill off when even a small fire is more than we want and for those weekends when we're off adventuring and not home to tend the fire. 

But, if we'd had the HC sooner, I don't think we would have bothered with the pellet stove. You're 100% right - it would easily and much more comfortably manage our shoulder seasons and having my in-laws load it when we're gone would be a once or twice a day button push and 5 minutes of babysitting before closing the door.


----------



## Pflum

Just took delivery of my Heat Commander yesterday. Have been planning my install in my head. I will be installing next to my existing propane furnace; they will share supply and return ducting. Any recommendations for backdraft damper install?  I'm thinking just put a gravity damper in the plenum of the LP furnace, not sure the best way to install one on the HC.


----------



## andym

Pflum said:


> Just took delivery of my Heat Commander yesterday. Have been planning my install in my head. I will be installing next to my existing propane furnace; they will share supply and return ducting. Any recommendations for backdraft damper install?  I'm thinking just put a gravity damper in the plenum of the LP furnace, not sure the best way to install one on the HC.


Gravity is the way to go for the LP plenum as mentioned. A power closed, spring open damper is what you need for the wood furnace. I did not is the 6" take off pipes, but rather used an 8x22 duct for supply. That also made it easy to install the damper. You can check out my thread on how to wire a relay to allow both furnaces to work together. It should be down a page or two. (Haven't figured out how to provide links!)


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

+1 for andym's answer.  You want all the airflow you can get when the power goes out.


----------



## Pflum

The manual seems pretty adamant about using a 6" chimney. I currently have a 8x8 masonry chimney. Is it critical to drop a liner in it, what would I be gaining?


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> The manual seems pretty adamant about using a 6" chimney. I currently have a 8x8 masonry chimney. Is it critical to drop a liner in it, what would I be gaining?


A working furnace, vs one that doesn't. 
Keep in mind the chimney is the engine of the firebox, which will do nothing without proper draft. 
They call for a round 6" flue (28.26 sq in) and you have a square 8 x8 (64 sq in) you will have VERY poor draft when this thing tries to go into "cruise" mode (which is where the magic happens)
You'll likely also have smoke rollout on reloads, and creosote buildup too...drop an insulated liner in and you'll be happy...might be a little tight at 8x8" though, might need to break your existing liner out first.


----------



## Pflum

I had a Yukon Husky in there until this year, which has an 8" smoke outlet. I don't know what the draft was without a damper, but I had to adjust the barometric damper out pretty far to get the 0.06" WC it called for. I figured I would have plenty of draft for the HC, if not too much. This is an interior chimney, I measured it at one point but don't recall now, I'd guess around 30 feet.


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> had to adjust the barometric damper out pretty far to get the 0.06" WC it called for.


The Husky (actually all Yukon Furnaces) called for -0.03" WC...if you were running -0.06" then I bet you had problems with it...


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> I figured I would have plenty of draft for the HC


Oversized chimney will have less draft with an efficient appliance on it...doesn't warm up enough (and stay warm) to maintain draft. So it might work OK starting out, but then as the fire gets well established and the furnace controls start to clamp down into that "cruise" mode like I mentioned before, then "waste heat" up the flue goes way down, flue cools, draft collapses.
Its your party, you can try it as is, but be prepared for disappointment.


----------



## SpaceBus

You *should* be able to fit a Duraliner 6" round rigid liner in an 8x8 (internal measurement) clay liner. I'm going to try this year on my internal masonry chimney with 8x8 clay liner. Worst comes to worst I'll put a length of chain (or something) on the end of my soot eater rods and bang out the tile liner, but I don't want to.


----------



## brenndatomu

Good thing about it is you still have a bit of time to try it this season, then if if it doesn't work well, there is all summer to line the chimney...


----------



## SpaceBus

Honestly though, he might be fine if the chimney is tall. I'm running my tiny, as in less than one cubic foot firebox, free standing stove with 3-ish feet of single wall with a 90 going into a 8x8 clay liner with flue temps peaking at 250-275 df and almost never have draft issues. It's slow to start on a calm day with no wind, but otherwise I have no problems. If this were an external chimney or not 24' tall I might have a different opinion/experience.


----------



## brenndatomu

SpaceBus said:


> You *should* be able to fit a Duraliner 6" round rigid liner in an 8x8 (internal measurement) clay liner. I'm going to try this year on my internal masonry chimney with 8x8 clay liner. Worst comes to worst I'll put a length of chain (or something) on the end of my soot eater rods and bang out the tile liner, but I don't want to.


Boy, that stuff is spendy!
I think I would try a regular preinsulated flex liner first...is going to be a bit bigger OD though (7.25" ish)


SpaceBus said:


> Honestly though, he might be fine if the chimney is tall.


Maybe, doubtful, but maybe...like I said, I guess its the right time of the year to try it...would hate to go into this winter thinking it was good to go without a trial run now though...


----------



## SpaceBus

brenndatomu said:


> Boy, that stuff is spendy!
> I think I would try a regular preinsulated flex liner first...is going to be a bit bigger OD though (7.25" ish)
> 
> Maybe, doubtful, but maybe...like I said, I guess its the right time of the year to try it...would hate to go into this winter thinking it was good to go without a trial run now though...


I think a preinsulated flex liner would not make it down the liner without getting stuck, torn, etc, but every liner is different.


----------



## Pflum

You're right, it is 0.03" for the Husky. I had it set for what they called for. 
I'm sure you're right about the chimney size, and I knew there had to be a reason they are so specific about the size. That's why I'm on here asking those more knowledgeable than I.


----------



## Pflum

Would taking a cold draft measurement tell me if the liner is needed? I'm not trying to "get out" of lining the chimney if needed, also not keen on plopping down a grand if I don't need to.
As I said this chimney goes straight up through the middle of my 2 story house, no offsets or anything.


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> Would taking a cold draft measurement tell me if the liner is needed?


No, you really need live measurements while hooked up to the HC...it's the waste heat from the appliance that makes the draft...not that you couldn't get a reading when not burning, but it really doesn't mean anything.
Its a little like a car...just because it runs, and revs up, and sounds good, doesn't mean its gonna have any real power when you actually put it in gear and drive it down the road.


----------



## maple1

Pflum said:


> Would taking a cold draft measurement tell me if the liner is needed? I'm not trying to "get out" of lining the chimney if needed, also not keen on plopping down a grand if I don't need to.
> As I said this chimney goes straight up through the middle of my 2 story house, no offsets or anything.



Have to spool the turbo up before you can measure the boost.


----------



## Pflum

What size splits does this thing like for the over night loads? I've been splitting a little smaller than I'm used to. Growing up feeding Hot Blast style stoves and my old Yukon we always split some "all nighters".
Assuming the moisture level is good, are you guys still feeding these new furnaces some big chunks, say 6-7" square?


----------



## trx250r87

Pflum said:


> What size splits does this thing like for the over night loads? I've been splitting a little smaller than I'm used to. Growing up feeding Hot Blast style stoves and my old Yukon we always split some "all nighters".
> Assuming the moisture level is good, are you guys still feeding these new furnaces some big chunks, say 6-7" square?



During the coldest parts of the season I do put larger pieces of oak on hot coals before going to bed, to prolong a burn.

Eric


----------



## 3fordasho

Pflum said:


> What size splits does this thing like for the over night loads? I've been splitting a little smaller than I'm used to. Growing up feeding Hot Blast style stoves and my old Yukon we always split some "all nighters".
> Assuming the moisture level is good, are you guys still feeding these new furnaces some big chunks, say 6-7" square?


With my tundra if there is a good coal bed, the large chunk is dry and it fits through the door it will burn fine. I'm sure the heat commander will handle it even better since it has better inlet air control.


----------



## sleewok

I just got my heat commander in! I'm excited to get it running. Currently I have it in the basement about 4 feet from where I need it. I have one problem right now...

Is there any way to get this off the pallet without a hoist? Will I be okay sliding it across the concrete floor once I have it off the pallet?

If I have to use a hoist, what is the best way to attach it to the joist so that something doesn't break? 

I appreciate any direction on this!


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> I just got my heat commander in! I'm excited to get it running. Currently I have it in the basement about 4 feet from where I need it. I have one problem right now...
> 
> Is there any way to get this off the pallet without a hoist? Will I be okay sliding it across the concrete floor once I have it off the pallet?
> 
> If I have to use a hoist, what is the best way to attach it to the joist so that something doesn't break?
> 
> I appreciate any direction on this!


You should be able to remove the screws that fasten it to the pallet then shimmy it off the pallet. A second person would make it easier but I don't mine my self. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> I just got my heat commander in! I'm excited to get it running. Currently I have it in the basement about 4 feet from where I need it. I have one problem right now...
> 
> Is there any way to get this off the pallet without a hoist? Will I be okay sliding it across the concrete floor once I have it off the pallet?
> 
> If I have to use a hoist, what is the best way to attach it to the joist so that something doesn't break?
> 
> I appreciate any direction on this!


Its all about work smart, not hard...get a bunch of blocks...I like 2x4 cutoffs, get some nice long "levers" be it pipe, 2x4's, or I like to use a spud bar. Get (2) 2-3' long pieces of 1" pipe (metal or sch 80 PVC) to use as rollers.
You can work the HC off the side of pallet until it can be rocked up onto one side (I can do this by myself) while someone else pulls the pallet out, then puts a piece of pipe under it to act as a roller...as you roll it, you can "leapfrog" the 2 pipes under the furnace as you roll it along. If you had to move it further I'd say maybe the blower should come off, but I wouldn't bother for 4'.
Or since you only need to move it 4', it might be easier to get a few pieces of sheet metal (like duct metal) to put under the "feet"...it will slide pretty easily on concrete this way (scoot it one end at a time, 1, then the other, in a twisting motion) this is how I moved my Kuuma from its temporary install spot, to its permanent spot...by myself.
I doubt the HC is much heavier than the Tundra was, and I found the Tundra fairly easy to move around...as long as there wasn't lifting (stairs!) involved...same floor/level moves were really pretty easy...heck I did one of my installs, by myself, while the kids were napping in rooms right above me...and nobody woke up!


----------



## Pflum

I cheated on mine, borrowed an engine hoist. I put mine up on concrete blocks while I had it in the air, 8" less I have to bend over to load it.


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> Its all about work smart, not hard...get a bunch of blocks...I like 2x4 cutoffs, get some nice long "levers" be it pipe, 2x4's, or I like to use a spud bar. Get (2) 2-3' long pieces of 1" pipe (metal or sch 80 PVC) to use as rollers.
> You can work the HC off the side of pallet until it can be rocked up onto one side (I can do this by myself) while someone else pulls the pallet out, then puts a piece of pipe under it to act as a roller...as you roll it, you can "leapfrog" the 2 pipes under the furnace as you roll it along. If you had to move it further I'd say maybe the blower should come off, but I wouldn't bother for 4'.
> Or since you only need to move it 4', it might be easier to get a few pieces of sheet metal (like duct metal) to put under the "feet"...it will slide pretty easily on concrete this way (scoot it one end at a time, 1, then the other, in a twisting motion) this is how I moved my Kuuma from its temporary install spot, to its permanent spot...by myself.
> I doubt the HC is much heavier than the Tundra was, and I found the Tundra fairly easy to move around...as long as there wasn't lifting (stairs!) involved...same floor/level moves were really pretty easy...heck I did one of my installs, by myself, while the kids were napping in rooms right above me...and nobody woke up!



This is great. How are you using the 2x4 cutoffs (what for)?


Pflum said:


> I cheated on mine, borrowed an engine hoist. I put mine up on concrete blocks while I had it in the air, 8" less I have to bend over to load it.


I borrowed an engine hoist as well only to find out the legs aren't wide enough .


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> This is great. How are you using the 2x4 cutoffs (what for)?


Blocks...used as needed


----------



## Pflum

I had to extend the hoist out all the way. This made it pretty tippy. I had to add some counterweight and be careful about it tipping forward


----------



## Rockstar1346

So have any upgraded from the previous tundra or heatmax to the new heat commander and if so was it worth the extra? I only ask this because right now a local store has the heatmax2 on for 2000$ and I have the wife pretty much sold on it but I deep down want the newer version. I don’t know if I can sell her on the extra 2500$ Price point.


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> So have any upgraded from the previous tundra or heatmax to the new heat commander and if so was it worth the extra? I only ask this because right now a local store has the heatmax2 on for 2000$ and I have the wife pretty much sold on it but I deep down want the newer version. I don’t know if I can sell her on the extra 2500$ Price point.


Extra $2500?! Where are you shopping? The last I looked they were ~$2650 (shipped) on the MFP site








						HEAT COMMANDER WOOD FURNACE
					

Among the most efficient systems on the market based on distributed energy, the Heat Commander is a central heating system that is both cutting edge and accessible thanks to its innovative design and ease of use. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity




					myfireplaceproducts.com
				



Looks like $2799 now, but $150 rebate to the end of the month, plus 26% tax rebate this year and next.
And yes, if you go back through this thread, there are several here that came from a T1/HM1 or T2/HM2 previously...personally, for the extra $5-600, I'd go HC...I think my sister is going to replace her cracked T1 with a HC (try to get warranty credit for the T1 toward buying the HC)


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> Extra $2500?! Where are you shopping? The last I looked they were ~$2650 (shipped) on the MFP site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HEAT COMMANDER WOOD FURNACE
> 
> 
> Among the most efficient systems on the market based on distributed energy, the Heat Commander is a central heating system that is both cutting edge and accessible thanks to its innovative design and ease of use. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> myfireplaceproducts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like $2799 now, but $150 rebate to the end of the month, plus 26% tax rebate this year and next.
> And yes, if you go back through this thread, there are several here that came from a T1/HM1 or T2/HM2 previously...personally, for the extra $5-600, I'd go HC...I think my sister is going to replace her cracked T1 with a HC (try to get warranty credit for the T1 toward buying the HC)


Yes I saw that and that’s an excellent deal I’d have 0 issues with. Unfortunately I’m Canadian and for some reason on the Canadian version of the website it retails for 4300$ even though 2799 converts to 3500$ Canadian haha so doesn’t make much sense to me


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> Yes I saw that and that’s an excellent deal I’d have 0 issues with. Unfortunately I’m Canadian and for some reason on the Canadian version of the website it retails for 4300$ even though 2799 converts to 3500$ Canadian haha so doesn’t make much sense to me


Yeah, that is weird...especially since they are made in Canada.


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

sleewok said:


> I just got my heat commander in! I'm excited to get it running. Currently I have it in the basement about 4 feet from where I need it. I have one problem right now...
> 
> Is there any way to get this off the pallet without a hoist? Will I be okay sliding it across the concrete floor once I have it off the pallet?
> 
> If I have to use a hoist, what is the best way to attach it to the joist so that something doesn't break?
> 
> I appreciate any direction on this!


Seriously, think more, post less!  Not to say it's bad to solicit ideas, but your situation is unique, and only you know all the little variables. 

i brought my Kuuma in in a trailer, cut the shipping pallet into a sled for the snowpack between the unload spot and the house, used a decreasing height stack of pallets and a winch to get it to from the trailer down to the snow, then moved it onto some moving dollies when I got it into the garage.  I called a buddy to help me get it up a 3" step, then down another 2" step and maneuvered around to the furnace room.  After days of my thinking it through, and a half hour of my buddy second guessing my plan, we got behind it and pushed.  It went in like it was greased.  My buddy said, "I think we were maybe overthinking this."  Well, he was, and I wasn't!

And Kuumas are F in heavy!


----------



## salecker

Rockstar1346 said:


> Yes I saw that and that’s an excellent deal I’d have 0 issues with. Unfortunately I’m Canadian and for some reason on the Canadian version of the website it retails for 4300$ even though 2799 converts to 3500$ Canadian haha so doesn’t make much sense to me


Road trip...
Take advantage of the free shipping to the closest spot in the USA then do the rest yourself or find a shipper from the free point to you.You would probably save a bunch of the difference.


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

RockyMtnGriz said:


> Seriously, think more, post less!  Not to say it's bad to solicit ideas, but your situation is unique, and only you know all the little variables.
> 
> i brought my Kuuma in in a trailer, cut the shipping pallet into a sled for the snowpack between the unload spot and the house, used a decreasing height stack of pallets and a winch to get it to from the trailer down to the snow, then moved it onto some moving dollies when I got it into the garage.  I called a buddy to help me get it up a 3" step, then down another 2" step and maneuvered around to the furnace room.  After days of my thinking it through, and a half hour of my buddy second guessing my plan, we got behind it and pushed.  It went in like it was greased.  My buddy said, "I think we were maybe overthinking this."  Well, he was, and I wasn't!
> 
> And Kuumas are F in heavy!


My above post was rude, and I am sorry.

I'd had a hard day, trying to recoup from an error I made when I talked through a problem, instead of actually doing the checking on the problem.  I was mad at myself for doing it, and spent the day beating myself up, and resolving to rely not on assurances, but verification.  Measure twice and cut once, and all that.  

My anger with myself leaked out into the keyboard, and again, I'm sorry.  It was really directed more at myself than you, but it didn't type out that way.


----------



## Rockstar1346

salecker said:


> Road trip...
> Take advantage of the free shipping to the closest spot in the USA then do the rest yourself or find a shipper from the free point to you.You would probably save a bunch of the difference.


Oh we usually do I live on a border town which is 35 minutes from USA border but with all the covid stuff there’s no travel in my area.. geez sbi is only 6 hours away I’d even drive there for the right deal but they won’t let you travel within Canadian borders even! Between a rock and a hard place haha so I might have to just settle for the heatmax2 .


----------



## SpaceBus

Can you have it shipped from an American vendor? Could the Canadian price be higher because they are including the shipping with the total price? I'm sure freight is not cheap these days.


----------



## Rockstar1346

SpaceBus said:


> Can you have it shipped from an American vendor? Could the Canadian price be higher because they are including the shipping with the total price? I'm sure freight is not cheap these days.


Well the only site I really have seen it on is the mfp site which has a Canadian and American when I try to do anything on the site it usually just detects my location and switches to the Canadian version. I’m not to sure really why the cost is different but I’m always keeping an eye out!


----------



## andym

How much would you pay for a 1 season old HMX2? I'll ship you mine and upgrade to a Heat Commander. Ha ha! From what I've read here it's like going from a carburetor to fuel injection. Definitely worth some difference in cost.


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> mfp site which has a Canadian and American when I try to do anything on the site it usually just detects my location and switches to the Canadian version.


It does that to me too...can be a real bugger to get it to the American site sometimes!


----------



## sleewok

RockyMtnGriz said:


> Seriously, think more, post less!  Not to say it's bad to solicit ideas, but your situation is unique, and only you know all the little variables.
> 
> i brought my Kuuma in in a trailer, cut the shipping pallet into a sled for the snowpack between the unload spot and the house, used a decreasing height stack of pallets and a winch to get it to from the trailer down to the snow, then moved it onto some moving dollies when I got it into the garage.  I called a buddy to help me get it up a 3" step, then down another 2" step and maneuvered around to the furnace room.  After days of my thinking it through, and a half hour of my buddy second guessing my plan, we got behind it and pushed.  It went in like it was greased.  My buddy said, "I think we were maybe overthinking this."  Well, he was, and I wasn't!
> 
> And Kuumas are F in heavy!


Oh believe me, I thought about it a lot :D! I ended up using  brenndatomu's advice. Originally I was going to try to slide it off I(before I posted here), but I couldn't get it to budge a single bit on the pallet. Well, it turns out that there were two 1/4in boards stapled under the furnace to keep it from sliding to the side. They were not very visible and I only noticed them after removing the blower. Once I removed those boards I was able to slide it off with no problem.  I then used broomsticks to roll it into place. It definitely wasn't as difficult as I originally thought. I also didn't realize how sturdy this thing is. 

I got it hooked up to my 6.5"x6" terracotta exterior chimney and fired it up a couple times so far. It seems to get good enough draft once it heats up a bit with 60F+ temperature outside.


----------



## sleewok

RockyMtnGriz said:


> My above post was rude, and I am sorry.
> 
> I'd had a hard day, trying to recoup from an error I made when I talked through a problem, instead of actually doing the checking on the problem.  I was mad at myself for doing it, and spent the day beating myself up, and resolving to rely not on assurances, but verification.  Measure twice and cut once, and all that.
> 
> My anger with myself leaked out into the keyboard, and again, I'm sorry.  It was really directed more at myself than you, but it didn't type out that way.



I really appreciate you taking the time to post this. I'm not easily offended, but I was a little confused! Hopefully you were able to get everything resolved with the error.  No hard feelings on my end.


----------



## Rockstar1346

So I took everyone’s advice and convinced the wife the heat commander was the way to go. Today was delivery day!


----------



## Pflum

Lit the first fire on mine Saturday to burn some of the stink off before I get my ducts hooked up. Just a couple small loads of ash, seemed to work pretty well. Haven't measured my draft yet, I will when I get into burning more to see if I need the baro dampener. Had my HVAC buddy over tonight to figure out my duct situation.


----------



## Rockstar1346

Pflum said:


> Lit the first fire on mine Saturday to burn some of the stink off before I get my ducts hooked up. Just a couple small loads of ash, seemed to work pretty well. Haven't measured my draft yet, I will when I get into burning more to see if I need the baro dampener. Had my HVAC buddy over tonight to figure out my duct situation.


Do you have existing duct work or are you running all new stuff? I have an existing trunk line that’s a little under sized but I think I’m gunna tie into it and then run some extra to my partially finished basement.


----------



## sleewok

Rockstar1346 said:


> Do you have existing duct work or are you running all new stuff? I have an existing trunk line that’s a little under sized but I think I’m gunna tie into it and then run some extra to my partially finished basement.


This is EXACTLY what I am planning to do. I'm going to have my HVAC guy modify the HC plenum with a rectangular duct carrying 500- 600cfm to my existing supply. I'm then going to run two 6" supplies with branches to my partially finished basement (1000sqft)

My hope is that the existing ductwork will carry enough to heat the 2000sqft upstairs. Worst case I can disconnect the connection to the central plenum and run branches off it to heat upstairs.


----------



## sleewok

Anyone having carbon monoxide issues with the HC? 

I'm having CO buildup in the basement when the burn is down to the coals. It is quite windy in my area and I wouldn't be surprised if the chimney is back drafting at times when the firebox heat is this low. I'm installing the direct air combustion because I have read that it can help (Especially since our other air handler (we have two) kicks on and pulls a ton of air from the basement). I did look at the Ecobee stats and the first time our CO reading went high was right after the air handler on the other unit kicked on.  Am I on the right track?

Do the dampers on the HC never fully close to put out the coals? It would be nice to be able to tap into that control with an arduino to put in some "smart logic" in cases where I don't need the coals for relighting...that's a whole other topic.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> I'm having CO buildup in the basement when the burn is down to the coals. It is quite windy in my area and I wouldn't be surprised if the chimney is back drafting at times when the firebox heat is this low. I'm installing the direct air combustion because I have read that it can help (Especially since our other air handler (we have two) kicks on and pulls a ton of air from the basement). I did look at the Ecobee stats and the first time our CO reading went high was right after the air handler on the other unit kicked on. Am I on the right track?


What are your chimney specs?
Air being pulled from the basement might be a non starter too.
I don't think this issue can be blamed on the HC...


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> Anyone having carbon monoxide issues with the HC?
> 
> I'm having CO buildup in the basement when the burn is down to the coals. It is quite windy in my area and I wouldn't be surprised if the chimney is back drafting at times when the firebox heat is this low. I'm installing the direct air combustion because I have read that it can help (Especially since our other air handler (we have two) kicks on and pulls a ton of air from the basement). I did look at the Ecobee stats and the first time our CO reading went high was right after the air handler on the other unit kicked on.  Am I on the right track?
> 
> Do the dampers on the HC never fully close to put out the coals? It would be nice to be able to tap into that control with an arduino to put in some "smart logic" in cases where I don't need the coals for relighting...that's a whole other topic.



No CO issues here. What does your draft look like?

Eric


----------



## sleewok

Okay, I got the fresh air supply hooked up and the difference is dramatic. Before I had to leave the door open or the fire would never start and smoke would billow out of the air intake. After adding the supply I can close the HC door and the fire continues to grow. The fresh air intake has a lot of airflow so it is like putting a blower up to the air intake. Some smoke started to creep through my stove pipe so I sealed that up as well. I'm pretty sure this should resolve it.

My draft fluctuates between -0.03 and -0.07 when the fire is going after a while. Before I start it I have barely any draft. Granted the inside and outside temperature difference is only around 15-20F right now (It doesn't get colder until morning). AFAIK that will impact draft during ignition.


----------



## sleewok

sleewok said:


> Okay, I got the fresh air supply hooked up and the difference is dramatic. Before I had to leave the door open or the fire would never start and smoke would billow out of the air intake. After adding the supply I can close the HC door and the fire continues to grow. The fresh air intake has a lot of airflow so it is like putting a blower up to the air intake. Some smoke started to creep through my stove pipe so I sealed that up as well. I'm pretty sure this should resolve it.
> 
> My draft fluctuates between -0.03 and -0.07 when the fire is going after a while. Before I start it I have barely any draft. Granted the inside and outside temperature difference is only around 15-20F right now (It doesn't get colder until morning). AFAIK that will impact draft during ignition.


I felt I should clarify that my home is not new or air tight. It was built in 1978. Most of the threads I have seen about fresh air intake have been related to a house that is too tight, or has other appliances that are pulling to create a negative pressure. In my case I believe it is due to the leaks in the house that was causing a negative pressure in the basement.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> In my case I believe it is due to the leaks in the house that was causing a negative pressure in the basement.


I'd buy that...


----------



## sleewok

Hey all, just wanted to share a pretty cool video showing the secondary combustion in the HC. There are two completely separate flames. (I'm not burning flexible duct, it is a reflection... )

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhJpL6SngaKTBpN76


----------



## Rockstar1346

sleewok said:


> Hey all, just wanted to share a pretty cool video showing the secondary combustion in the HC. There are two completely separate flames. (I'm not burning flexible duct, it is a reflection... )
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhJpL6SngaKTBpN76


Looks good! Beautiful flames how do you get those flexible ducts to catch though? I can’t seem to get mine to light


----------



## woodey

Rockstar1346 said:


> how do you get those flexible ducts to catch though?


I soak mine in gasoline for 24 hrs, seems to help!


----------



## brenndatomu

Kinda quiet around here this fall...everybody that put their new HC in last year must be toasty, warm, and overall happy with how they are working?


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> Kinda quiet around here this fall...everybody that put their new HC in last year must be toasty, warm, and overall happy with how they are working?


It’s been mild up here in the great white north it was 10 degrees today! Only been burning small loads so far. My HC has really only been connected for about a week now I want to wait until it’s a bit colder to give a real review of it but man oh man what a difference compared to my old stove.


----------



## Highbeam

We need some good reviews to convince some of us to take advantage of the tax credit.


----------



## JRHAWK9

Highbeam said:


> We need some good reviews to convince some of us to take advantage of the tax credit.



Rumor has it you prefer one w/o a window though.


----------



## Highbeam

JRHAWK9 said:


> Rumor has it you prefer one w/o a window though.



I really think I would miss not having a view of the fire. If a vf100 showed up I would definitely try it out!


----------



## trx250r87

If I didn't have the window ony HC I would be 50% more productive. I get sucked into the view all too often.


----------



## brenndatomu

Highbeam said:


> I really think I would miss not having a view of the fire.


Yup, I can vouch...


----------



## Pflum

I've been burning mine for a few weeks now; I don't have my return air hooked up yet, hope to have it hooked up next week. Overall I'm happy with the HC, my biggest gripe is probably that when the thermostat is satisfied, the blower cycles a lot. The blower is really quiet, so the sound doesn't bother me. The computer raises the cut in/cut off temp when the thermostat is satisfied, but if there's a decent fire going the thing cycles a lot, sometimes every couple minutes. To me its not lessening the amount of heat being delivered, its giving a blast of hotter air every few minutes versus a steady supply of cooler air. It doesn't seem like the air controls are choking down the fire a lot, but I know they are trying to keep the burn clean too. 
Got down to 22 overnight. I loaded it up half locust half ash at 9:30 last night, thermostat set on 70. I woke up with my kid about 1:30 a.m, there was still some big glowing chunks of locust and a bunch of coals. I threw two smaller pieces of locust in there. Went down at 5:30 am to a super thick bed of coals. Threw a few 2x4s in to try to burn them down some. House was 69. 
The coal burn down on mine doesn't seem as good as some have made it sound on here, but there's a lot of variables there.


----------



## Pflum

Oh and +1 on the glass door, I've been around wood stoves my whole life but this is my first with a window, I love it! Better than t.v.! Wish it was in my living room.


----------



## sleewok

So far so good on my end.  Heating about 4200 sqft. Our temps have been getting down into the 20s (F). I have our thermostat set to 72F in the bedroom area. I have three 6" supplies heating about 1000 sqft on the bedroom side.  The temps in the morning are about 72F. The other 2000 sqft of our upstairs is in the upper 60s! The wood burned has a huge impact on what you'll get out of this. I can burn 1+ year seasoned and I'll get decent heat out of it. My 2+ year hardwood gives me huge coals that burn for a LONG time. 

My supply runs are far from optimal right now and I expect to see even more efficiency. I also have a liner that I am putting in -- that should help provide greater consistency in the burn since my draft fluctuates quite a bit right now (even with the barometric damper).

I still need to run two more supplies to the living area and cut some holes for returns. So far I am very satisfied. I'll be curious to see how it handles <20F temps for our home.

I usually need to reload every 3 to 4 hours. At night I'm seeing about 5 hours of burn before we start to lose temp.

My BIGGEST complaint so far is that it will continue to run the blower if the thermostat is calling for heat, but heat is NOT available... I see this at the end of a burn when the coals are low.  If there is no heat available, why is the blower running!?


----------



## trx250r87

That does not seem right. My HC fan cycles once I am at the coaling stage if there is enough plenum temperature to kick the fan on, regardless of thermostat condition. This often happens for hours.

Eric



sleewok said:


> My BIGGEST complaint so far is that it will continue to run the blower if the thermostat is calling for heat, but heat is NOT available... I see this at the end of a burn when the coals are low.  If there is no heat available, why is the blower running!?


----------



## JRHAWK9

Pflum said:


> my biggest gripe is probably that when the thermostat is satisfied, the blower cycles a lot. The blower is really quiet, so the sound doesn't bother me. The computer raises the cut in/cut off temp when the thermostat is satisfied, but if there's a decent fire going the thing cycles a lot, sometimes every couple minutes. To me its not lessening the amount of heat being delivered, its giving a blast of hotter air every few minutes versus a steady supply of cooler air. It doesn't seem like the air controls are choking down the fire a lot, but I know they are trying to keep the burn clean too.



You will learn to load for the heat load to minimize the effect of the thermostat.  If it's going to be warmer and you don't need the heat, just don't load as much, or at all.  The heat has to go somewhere, as it's not going to (or at least not supposed to) smolder the fire.


----------



## sleewok

trx250r87 said:


> That does not seem right. My HC fan cycles once I am at the coaling stage if there is enough plenum temperature to kick the fan on, regardless of thermostat condition. This often happens for hours.
> 
> Eric


Let me see if I am understanding correctly... If the thermostat is calling for heat, and the status light isn't indicating there is enough heat (not blinking), your HC fan does NOT run?


----------



## trx250r87

I believe my fan will kick in if the light is OFF, thermostat condition does not matter (from what I recall)

Eric




sleewok said:


> Let me see if I am understanding correctly... If the thermostat is calling for heat, and the status light isn't indicating there is enough heat (not blinking), your HC fan does NOT run?


----------



## woodey

Pflum said:


> Pflum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I loaded it up half locust half ash at 9:30 last night, thermostat set on 70. I woke up with my kid about 1:30 a.m, there was still some big glowing chunks of locust and a bunch of coals. I threw two smaller pieces of locust in there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sleewok said:
> 
> 
> 
> I usually need to reload every 3 to 4 hours
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Why such short burn times?  Are  these  full loads all North-South or Log cabin style loadings? I see sleewok is heating a large area, but even so?


----------



## laynes69

I agree about the short burn times. Look through the back and see if the grate air is closing completely when the furnace comes up to temperature. It was 23 this morning and I loaded the woodfurnace at 4:30 am. When I got home at 3:00 pm, I raked the coals forward, pressed the button and threw some wood in it. Currently it's 35 degrees out. I set the thermostat for 72 degrees when I left for work and it was 72 when I returned.  Make sure the draft is set correctly and good dry wood is being used.


----------



## JRHAWK9

woodey said:


> Why such short burn times?  Are  these  full loads all North-South or Log cabin style loadings? I see sleewok is heating a large area, but even so?


This can happen when a heat load is more than what a thermostatically controlled unit can comfortably put out.   It spends a lot of time with the air open to try to satisfy the call for heat by the thermostat.  This leads to wood-be-gone.     Not saying that is the issue here, but it could be.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> I have three 6" supplies heating about 1000 sqft on the bedroom side.





sleewok said:


> I also have a liner that I am putting in -- that should help provide greater consistency in the burn since my draft fluctuates quite a bit right now (even with the barometric damper).


Fixing these 2 issues could make a huge difference in performance! IIRC (6) 6" ducts are the minimum allowed supply lines...and if you don't have proper draft, you have nothing...remember, the chimney is the engine the powers the firebox.


----------



## Highbeam

JRHAWK9 said:


> This can happen when a heat load is more than what a thermostatically controlled unit can comfortably put out.   It spends a lot of time with the air open to try to satisfy the call for heat by the thermostat.  This leads to wood-be-gone.     Not saying that is the issue here, but it could be.



Do you suppose emissions ratings and efficiency ratings are determined with the furnace being called on for heat or at idle? Or maybe some arbitrary mixture?


----------



## JRHAWK9

Highbeam said:


> Do you suppose emissions ratings and efficiency ratings are determined with the furnace being called on for heat or at idle? Or maybe some arbitrary mixture?



It depends on the category of the burn.  For Cat 1.....there must be no call for heat and no draft blower.  This is the cat where they test the unit for the absolute minimum burn that the user would use it for in real life.  IE, no call for heat and a firebox full of wood.  Hence why SBI's new ones seem to raise the low limit blower temp when there is no call for heat and a fire in the firebox.  They have to keep the fire burning clean, but they also have to do something with the heat it produces, as they can't just snub the fire out.


----------



## laynes69

The furnace doesn't burn wide open when there's a call for heat. The dampers adjust to maintain maximum efficiency and heat output. The temperature settings for the blower change based on the call for heat. It's not an on/off combustion system. There's numerous stages that the dampers can adjust the fire to.


----------



## JRHAWK9

laynes69 said:


> The furnace doesn't burn wide open when there's a call for heat. The dampers adjust to maintain maximum efficiency and heat output. The temperature settings for the blower change based on the call for heat. It's not an on/off combustion system. There's numerous stages that the dampers can adjust the fire to.



Understand that, burning wide open is burning dirty.  I was under the assumption the call for heat will have some effect on the rate of wood consumption.....?  A constant call for heat would burn the wood quicker, right?  That's all I meant.


----------



## Highbeam

laynes69 said:


> The dampers adjust to maintain maximum efficiency and heat output.



I propose that these two things do not happen at the same time. Flue temps rise, emissions rise, efficiency falls as maximum output is reached. 

I believe that there is a sweet spot of maximum efficiency somewhat lower than maximum output but above minimum clean burn rate. 

Good stuff folks.


----------



## laynes69

Highbeam said:


> I believe that there is a sweet spot of maximum efficiency somewhat lower than maximum output but above minimum clean burn rate.


I agree completely, however an on/off system would burn wide open and do so indefinitely. Using thermocouples, they can detect surges in temperature and maintain a burn that's clean and efficient.  Maybe not full efficiency no, but much more efficient than an off/on system.


----------



## trx250r87

I guess I was wrong on my statement about the thermostat condition not being relevant. 

I usually just set the HC thermostat and forget it. I rarely pay attention to if it is calling for heat or not. 

I just came  home from work and as of 4:45pm after loading the furnace (half full of soft maple) this morning at 6:15am the fan was turning on about every 10-15 minutes. I'm assuming the thermostat was calling for heat. Up stairs thermostat was still 69 degrees and it was in the mid/upper teens this morning. Attached is a photo of the amount of hot coals left in the firebox. 


Eric






trx250r87 said:


> That does not seem right. My HC fan cycles once I am at the coaling stage if there is enough plenum temperature to kick the fan on, regardless of thermostat condition. This often happens for hours.
> 
> Eric


----------



## Highbeam

trx250r87 said:


> I guess I was wrong on my statement about the thermostat condition not being relevant.
> 
> I usually just set the HC thermostat and forget it. I rarely pay attention to if it is calling for heat or not.
> 
> I just came  home from work and as of 4:45pm after loading the furnace (half full of soft maple) this morning at 6:15am the fan was turning on about every 10-15 minutes. I'm assuming the thermostat was calling for heat. Up stairs thermostat was still 69 degrees and it was in the mid/upper teens this morning. Attached is a photo of the amount of hot coals left in the firebox.
> 
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 286168


Is that the under grate air supply kicked on making the coals white?


----------



## trx250r87

I did hit the reload button, crack the door and open the manual damper for a few minutes and the coals started glowing pretty good.

The grate air supply is not fed by any forced air, just natural draft. 

Eric


----------



## laynes69

If the house drops in temp and the thermostat has a heating demand, the grate air opens and burns white hot. I've came downstairs after an overnight fire thinking there were alot of coals in the firebox, just to find a small amount of ashed over coals. The units really do extract a bit of heat.


----------



## JRHAWK9

woodey said:


> North-South or Log cabin style loadings?



That's funny you asked...but seeing you went there.  Of course everyone is building a crib.  It's how SBI instructed Intertek to load it and it's how it was certified.  It's why the manual has to recommend it.        They seem to have gotten away with it.   



laynes69 said:


> If the house drops in temp and the thermostat has a heating demand, the grate air opens and burns white hot. I've came downstairs after an overnight fire thinking there were alot of coals in the firebox, just to find a small amount of ashed over coals.



That is one feature that would be nice to have.  I'd only need it a handful of days a winter, but it would be nice to have that option available.  In terms of efficiency though, you are sacrificing overall BTU's long term (by way of chimney) for short term heat output.


----------



## Pflum

I believe the manual instructs to load crib style for max heat output, but also instructs to pack tightly North/South for max burn time. I'll check the manual when I go downstairs.


----------



## laynes69

JRHAWK9 said:


> That's funny you asked...but seeing you went there.  Of course everyone is building a crib.
> 
> That is one feature that would be nice to have.  I'd only need it a handful of days a winter, but it would be nice to have that option available.  In terms of efficiency though, you are sacrificing overall BTU's long term (by way of chimney) for short term heat output.



I'm not going to lie, 4 large splits in a crib actually put out a ton of heat and last for hours. 

As for the sacrificing BTU's the heat exchanger does well to extract the heat from the fire. I'll take a small reduction in efficiency in order to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home.


----------



## JRHAWK9

laynes69 said:


> I'll take a small reduction in efficiency in order to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home.



Agreed, there are a few times when we have those numerous 70-80 HDD's in a row where I would find it helpful to be able to burn down the coals quick and keep supply temps high in order to load the next load faster.    I have a way I do it, but it's manually, not automatic.  LOL


----------



## JRHAWK9

Pflum said:


> I believe the manual instructs to load crib style for max heat output, but also instructs to pack tightly North/South for max burn time. I'll check the manual when I go downstairs.



Seeing it was instructed for Intertek to load that way and that's the way it passed and was certified, they have to make it part of the manual.


----------



## woodey

Pflum said:


> I believe the manual instructs to load crib style for max heat output


So to achieve the "max heat output " loading crib style, am I right to assume you need 2 different lengths  of splits to do this?


----------



## sloeffle

Pflum said:


> I've been burning mine for a few weeks now; I don't have my return air hooked up yet, hope to have it hooked up next week. Overall I'm happy with the HC, my biggest gripe is probably that when the thermostat is satisfied, the blower cycles a lot. The blower is really quiet, so the sound doesn't bother me. The computer raises the cut in/cut off temp when the thermostat is satisfied, but if there's a decent fire going the thing cycles a lot, sometimes every couple minutes. To me its not lessening the amount of heat being delivered, its giving a blast of hotter air every few minutes versus a steady supply of cooler air. It doesn't seem like the air controls are choking down the fire a lot, but I know they are trying to keep the burn clean too


My Caddy did the same thing until I added the blower mod to mine.  It's miserable listening to it kick off and on all of the time. IMHO the blower mod makes the furnace heat the house so much better, especially at the end of the burn when the house is up to temp, or getting close.


----------



## brenndatomu

sloeffle said:


> IMHO the blower mod makes the furnace heat the house so much better, especially at the end of the burn when the house is up to temp, or getting close.


True story


----------



## laynes69

woodey said:


> So to achieve the "max heat output " loading crib style, am I right to assume you need 2 different lengths  of splits to do this?





woodey said:


> So to achieve the "max heat output " loading crib style, am I right to assume you need 2 different lengths  of splits to do this?


No, I just take 2 splits corner to corner and 2 offset from those. My wood is still the same as before.....18" to 20".


----------



## sleewok

trx250r87 said:


> I did hit the reload button, crack the door and open the manual damper for a few minutes and the coals started glowing pretty good.
> 
> The grate air supply is not fed by any forced air, just natural draft.
> 
> Eric


Wait, there's a manual damper on the HC? Where is it located?


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> Wait, there's a manual damper on the HC? Where is it located?


Negative, I have a manual/key damper installed on my flue.

Eric


----------



## FixedGearFlyer

I’m late to this season’s party, but we are still thrilled with the HC. Last winter was an absolutely game changer in both comfort and convenience and this year is shaping up to be the same. 

We dropped a 6” stainless liner down our 7”x7” masonry flue in early fall and that’s improved burn times and heat output over last winter’s fantastic performance. 

We’ve been getting 12+ hour burns with the firebox about 2/3 full and keeping the house within a degree or two of the thermostat setting (70*F) for that entire time. Outside temps have been in the upper 20s during the day and the lower 20s to mid-teens during the nights, so we’re still in “One Fire Per Day” land. We usually burn around 8:00am and the fan is still cycling occasionally when we go to bed around 10, though the house is starting to cool at that point. By morning, it’s around 60 and we do it again. Our shoulder-season pellet stove takes up the slack if it drops below 60 during the night. 

So far, we don’t have any complaints about the HC. Even in the depths of last winter when we kept the furnace burning 24/7, we only had to go down to the basement twice per day - once in the morning and then once in the evening.


----------



## Rockstar1346

From my first few weeks with it I have found crib style gets a quick hot fire burning and gets the plenum up to temp. But I only load maybe 4 splits in this way then let it burn down to coals then load north south on top I find that works best for me. There’s definitely more I need to do to make it more efficient, but this year was more about getting it installed before snow flies.


----------



## Rockstar1346

I just wanted to post a picture this morning because I never really get to see it as I go to work in the dark and get home in the dark. But how on earth do these stoves burn with no smoke what’s so ever!?


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> But how on earth do these stoves burn with no smoke what’s so ever!?


Canadian elfin magic...


----------



## JRHAWK9

Welcome to the 21st century.  If it did smoke, it's not efficient.  Smoke IS your fuel, so sending it up the chimney is like poking a hole in your gas tank of your vehicle as you drive down the road.     

Once you get below freezing temps, you will see water vapor condensing in the air.

I was just over at the neighbors a couple days ago picking up some poplar he cut down and didn't want.   Lucky for me (  ) it was near his OWB.  So I got to smell/inhale that horrible smelling smoke while I was there.  He burns well seasoned oak, but those OWB are just nasty.  The top of his stack was just covered in black gooey creosote.    Nasty!


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> Smoke IS your fuel, so sending it up the chimney is like poking a hole in your gas tank of your vehicle as you drive down the road.


Good analogy.


JRHAWK9 said:


> I was just over at the neighbors a couple days ago picking up some poplar he cut down and didn't want. Lucky for me (  ) it was near his OWB. So I got to smell/inhale that horrible smelling smoke while I was there. He burns well seasoned oak, but those OWB are just nasty. The top of his stack was just covered in black gooey creosote. Nasty!


Agreed, that's a nasty stench being downwind of those things!
But the newer OWB's (some of them anyways) burn as clean as your Kuuma! 👍👍
My folks just installed a new HeatMaster G series (this is for those reading along, JR already knows about it) and the difference between it and their old Central Boiler is like an ox cart with stone wheels vs a new Tesla!


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> Good analogy.
> 
> Agreed, that's a nasty stench being downwind of those things!
> But the newer OWB's (some of them anyways) burn as clean as your Kuuma! 👍👍
> My folks just installed a new HeatMaster G series (this is for those reading along, JR already knows about it) and the difference between it and their old Central Boiler is like an ox cart with stone wheels vs a new Tesla!


Wow that’s amazing I’ve only known 1 person to have an OWB up here and he burnt everything in it and I mean everything green,seasoned, construction scraps you name it he would throw it in. I assume the newer ones would need well seasoned wood only?  Don’t let Elon hear of this next thing you know we will have tesla or starlink stoves that run on stardust and solar.


----------



## sloeffle

woodey said:


> So to achieve the "max heat output " loading crib style, am I right to assume you need 2 different lengths  of splits to do this?


I actually started doing this last year. I load my wood into totes after I split it, so dealing with wood of different lengths is no big deal. If it was stacking my wood in a traditional stack I'd probably still cut everything to the same length.


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys,

I'm in the market for a new furnace to replace my 20 year old Newmac. I found the heat commander and then this site. great thread and info.

I have some questions if you guys don't mind, these new furnaces look way more technical to setup then my newmac.

By the looks of it when I remove my old furnace and if I get the HC I should be able to set that right under my existing plenum., and with some work attach my existing plenum to the HC ,  I'm not sure yet how the cold or return air hooks up but can be to difficult. 

 How are you guys measuring the static pressure, and I think I read something about putting return dampeners in the duct work, Whats that about. 

The HC seems to have a lot of electrical parts working together how much work is it to get these installed and working in sink with each other. has there been many issues with failure or break down of these electronic parts.

In one of the pics you can see a round gauge on side of the plenum what that for?

Also how big of wood are you guys using in the HC , My Newmac will take big wood , round stuff 10" across anyhow, but generally larger wood.

 Does the wood for the HC have to be dry, I generally run dry wood but sometimes its a little green how does that effect the HC .

sorry for all the questions but appreciate any info


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm in the market for a new furnace to replace my 20 year old Newmac. I found the heat commander and then this site. great thread and info.
> 
> I have some questions if you guys don't mind, these new furnaces look way more technical to setup then my newmac.
> 
> By the looks of it when I remove my old furnace and if I get the HC I should be able to set that right under my existing plenum., and with some work attach my existing plenum to the HC ,  I'm not sure yet how the cold or return air hooks up but can be to difficult.
> 
> How are you guys measuring the static pressure, and I think I read something about putting return dampeners in the duct work, Whats that about.
> 
> The HC seems to have a lot of electrical parts working together how much work is it to get these installed and working in sink with each other. has there been many issues with failure or break down of these electronic parts.
> 
> In one of the pics you can see a round gauge on side of the plenum what that for?
> 
> Also how big of wood are you guys using in the HC , My Newmac will take big wood , round stuff 10" across anyhow, but generally larger wood.
> 
> Does the wood for the HC have to be dry, I generally run dry wood but sometimes its a little green how does that effect the HC .
> 
> sorry for all the questions but appreciate any info



NSGUY,
I think most of these questions can be answered by reading manual for the HC. 

I think the manual mentions anti-backdraft dampers in the ductwork so your gas furnace does not blow back through the HC. I have an 8" damper in each of my three take-offs. This also helps in summer when my central air runs. Without the dampers the conditioned air would blow backwards through my HC.

I borrowed a guage from a neighbor to measure static pressure and my system was setup perfectly, maybe I got lucky. The blower is variable speed and will try to compensate if your static pressure isn't correct. With an open plenum the speed will be greatly reduced, if the plenum is too restricted the fan will ramp up much higher. 

Electronics and components have been solid so far and they are easy to connect. I'm not sure what you mean by round gauge on the side, can you get a picture?

Yes your wood needs to be seasoned. Anything under 20% should burn as the dampers will compensate air fed to the fire based on firebox and plenum temperature. I sometimes burn larger 8"-10" diameter pieces of wood over night. They work well as long as the wood is dry.


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> NSGUY,
> I think most of these questions can be answered by reading manual for the HC.
> 
> I think the manual mentions anti-backdraft dampers in the ductwork so your gas furnace does not blow back through the HC. I have an 8" damper in each of my three take-offs. This also helps in summer when my central air runs. Without the dampers the conditioned air would blow backwards through my HC.
> 
> I borrowed a guage from a neighbor to measure static pressure and my system was setup perfectly, maybe I got lucky. The blower is variable speed and will try to compensate if your static pressure isn't correct. With an open plenum the speed will be greatly reduced, if the plenum is too restricted the fan will ramp up much higher.
> 
> Electronics and components have been solid so far and they are easy to connect. I'm not sure what you mean by round gauge on the side, can you get a picture?
> 
> Yes your wood needs to be seasoned. Anything under 20% should burn as the dampers will compensate air fed to the fire based on firebox and plenum temperature. I sometimes burn larger 8"-10" diameter pieces of wood over night. They work well as long as the wood is dry.



Thanks you TRX for your time and reply

this will be a stand alone wood furnace no oil or anything so I shouldn't have to worry about dampeners then.

for the gauge I mentioned look on page 5 post 120 of this thread, its in that video. 

And a question for anyone, now that you had the Heat commander for heating season is it much of an upgrade over the tundra 2 . thanks


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Thanks you TRX for your time and reply
> 
> this will be a stand alone wood furnace no oil or anything so I shouldn't have to worry about dampeners then.
> 
> for the gauge I mentioned look on page 5 post 120 of this thread, its in that video.
> 
> And a question for anyone, now that you had the Heat commander for heating season is it much of an upgrade over the tundra 2 . thanks


That is a magnehelic gauge that @FixedGearFlyer added to his install, used to measure the draft in his flue. While not mandatory, a magnehelic or manometer can be a very helpful tool to see real-time draft.

I can't compare to a T2 but I did have an original Tundra and the HC is a huge improvement.


Eric


----------



## NSGUY

Well not going to get  HC , just heard back from Drolet they are not making anymore until Jan. 2023.


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Well not going to get  HC , just heard back from Drolet they are not making anymore until Jan. 2023.


Myfireplaceproducts.com shows 20 in stock. I'm not sure if these are only to be sold in the US though. 

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> Myfireplaceproducts.com shows 20 in stock. I'm not sure if these are only to be sold in the US though.
> 
> Eric


Thank you Eric, I did see that in my search and thought it was us only, I just looked a little closer might be Canada to , So  I just sent them an email so we'll see.  I checked most of our province today for one and nothing but I might find one in a neighbouring province if I'm lucky.  thanks


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> Myfireplaceproducts.com shows 20 in stock. I'm not sure if these are only to be sold in the US though


That's the best place to get 'em anyways...and I think the warehouse is in Indiana or Illinois, so they ship pretty quick from what I've heard
EDIT: oops, I didn't see that @NSGUY is in Canada...


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Well not going to get  HC , just heard back from Drolet they are not making anymore until Jan. 2023.


'23, or '22?


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> '23, or '22?


I was told 2023


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I was told 2023



What is 2022 some sort of Canadian holiday year?!


----------



## NSGUY

Ok I think I found one, how important are these option and which should I get
AIR FILTER WITH CARDBOARD FRAME AND SUPPORT​WASHABLE ALUMINUM AIR FILTER  WITH SUPPORT​COLD AIR RETURN HOUSING WITH FILTER​DIGITAL WALL THERMOSTAT​it says it comes with a thermostat so not sure if I need the wall thermostat 

thanks


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> What is 2022 some sort of Canadian holiday year?!


lol not sure, that just what I was told


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> How are you guys measuring the static pressure, and I think I read something about putting return dampeners in the duct work, Whats that about.


Cheapest way it to get a Dwyer Mark II model 25 manometer online...ebay or the like...you can get lightly used or NOS for $30-$40, sometimes less...it can be used to measure the chimney draft then too.


NSGUY said:


> Does the wood for the HC have to be dry, I generally run dry wood but sometimes its a little green how does that effect the HC .


You will want dryer wood than what you have been using, under 20% MC when measured on a freshly split log, in the middle of a fresh face...oh and wood at room temp too. If you get much over 20% you lose efficiency and it just becomes a pain in the rear...plus the furnace HX and chimney get all yucked up.


NSGUY said:


> And a question for anyone, now that you had the Heat commander for heating season is it much of an upgrade over the tundra 2 .


The HC seems to be a major upgrade over either Tundra...there really wasn't that much difference in the T1 and the T2...just the way the front is made (to stop the cracking) and the blower is upgraded a little...more sophisticated electronics too...pretty much the same in the way they heat though.


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Ok I think I found one, how important are these option and which should I get
> AIR FILTER WITH CARDBOARD FRAME AND SUPPORT​WASHABLE ALUMINUM AIR FILTER  WITH SUPPORT​COLD AIR RETURN HOUSING WITH FILTER​DIGITAL WALL THERMOSTAT​it says it comes with a thermostat so not sure if I need the wall thermostat
> 
> thanks


I ended up installing 2 washable air filter kits, one on each side of the blower. I do NOT have my HC connected to cold air return of my gas furnace though. I have washed them 2 or 3 times in the last year. 

The Honeywell thermostat that ships with the HC is basic and just runs off batteries. It does a decent job as far as I'm concerned and batteries last a long time!

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> I ended up installing 2 washable air filter kits, one on each side of the blower. I do NOT have my HC connected to cold air return of my gas furnace though. I have washed them 2 or 3 times in the last year.
> 
> The Honeywell thermostat that ships with the HC is basic and just runs off batteries. It does a decent job as far as I'm concerned and batteries last a long time!
> 
> Eric


Thanks Eric you've been a lot of help ,

I just started researching these furnaces yesterday, So I'm still in the weeds trying to figure them out,  The more I read the more complicated they seem,  I hope you don't mind me asking questions

So from what I see the blower is the big box on the back of the furnace, it draws air from both sides of it, My hot air/plenum will come off the top , So I assume my cold air return will connect to one side of the blower,  so i'd need a cold air return filter and one washable filter, that seem correct?

Also they strongly recommend a 6" chimney I believe I have a 7" I have to measure the chimney to be 100% sure but I just checked my brush and its 7".   will that really effect the efficiency of the furnace or how it works? I think it said in the manual I'd need to run a 6" flue

Also how long or how many washes do you believe those washable filters will last, I assume a while

thanks  Scott


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Thanks Eric you've been a lot of help ,
> 
> I just started researching these furnaces yesterday, So I'm still in the weeds trying to figure them out,  The more I read the more complicated they seem,  I hope you don't mind me asking questions
> 
> So from what I see the blower is the big box on the back of the furnace, it draws air from both sides of it, My hot air/plenum will come off the top , So I assume my cold air return will connect to one side of the blower,  so i'd need a cold air return filter and one washable filter, that seem correct?
> 
> Also they strongly recommend a 6" chimney I believe I have a 7" I have to measure the chimney to be 100% sure but I just checked my brush and its 7".   will that really effect the efficiency of the furnace or how it works? I think it said in the manual I'd need to run a 6" flue
> 
> Also how long or how many washes do you believe those washable filters will last, I assume a while
> 
> thanks  Scott


Scott,
Yes the blower is housed in the sheet metal box at the rear of the furnace. I think you have a choice of left, right or rear connection to cold air, or any combination of the 3 sides. I also believe any or all of the 3 sides can hold an air filter, I just happen to be using 2 filter kits for more free air flow and more time between washing them.

 The washable filters from SBI/Drolet are pretty coarse and free flowing and made of metal mesh, unlike a MERV11 or MERV13 allergen filter that you might put in a natural gas or propane furnace. The metal, washable filters should last "forever". 

I don't know what to tell you about your 7" flue. How tall is it? I'm sure it could work but I'm guessing your draft would be slightly reduced. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Also they strongly recommend a 6" chimney I believe I have a 7" I have to measure the chimney to be 100% sure but I just checked my brush and its 7". will that really effect the efficiency of the furnace or how it works? I think it said in the manual I'd need to run a 6" flue


How tall is it? Is it an internal chimney, or external? Is this a stainless steel insulated doublewall chimney, or masonry?
General rule of thumb is you can get away with going up or down 1" on the flue size without too much trouble...but a lot still depends on the individual install...straight up, or 90* and out through the wall?


----------



## NSGUY

Its a stainless steel insulated doublewall chimney, put in when the house was build about 18 years go, it still looks to be i'm very good condition, its 20 to 24 feet in length would have to measure to make sure, and it has a 7" diameter  , the chimney is straight up through the house from the basement ceiling. the way it is set up now is a 45 off the back of the furnace , about 4 foot length of pipe and a 45 onto the chimney.

What size is the pipe coming out of the heat commander ?    this what it says in the manual 

A chimney having a diameter of 7" (178 mm) is permitted, if it allows the proper 
venting of combustion gases and that such application is verified and authorized 
by a qualified installer. Otherwise, the diameter of the flue must be reduced to 6" 
(152 mm) by the use of a stainless steel liner made for this purpose.


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Its a stainless steel insulated doublewall chimney, put in when the house was build about 18 years go, it still looks to be i'm very good condition, its 20 to 24 feet in length would have to measure to make sure, and it has a 7" diameter  , the chimney is straight up through the house from the basement ceiling. the way it is set up now is a 45 off the back of the furnace , about 4 foot length of pipe and a 45 onto the chimney.
> 
> What size is the pipe coming out of the heat commander ?    this what it says in the manual
> 
> A chimney having a diameter of 7" (178 mm) is permitted, if it allows the proper
> venting of combustion gases and that such application is verified and authorized
> by a qualified installer. Otherwise, the diameter of the flue must be reduced to 6"
> (152 mm) by the use of a stainless steel liner made for this purpose.


That sounds like it could work. I think my 6" double wall stainless class A is 27' from 90 degree at back of furnace to top of cap. I have plenty of draft, -.2" wc if I don't adjust manual damper. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> ts a stainless steel insulated doublewall chimney, put in when the house was build about 18 years go, it still looks to be i'm very good condition, its 20 to 24 feet in length would have to measure to make sure, and it has a 7" diameter , the chimney is straight up through the house from the basement ceiling. the way it is set up now is a 45 off the back of the furnace , about 4 foot length of pipe and a 45 onto the chimney.


That'll do.


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm in the market for a new furnace to replace my 20 year old Newmac. I found the heat commander and then this site. great thread and info.
> 
> I have some questions if you guys don't mind, these new furnaces look way more technical to setup then my newmac.
> 
> By the looks of it when I remove my old furnace and if I get the HC I should be able to set that right under my existing plenum., and with some work attach my existing plenum to the HC ,  I'm not sure yet how the cold or return air hooks up but can be to difficult.
> 
> How are you guys measuring the static pressure, and I think I read something about putting return dampeners in the duct work, Whats that about.
> 
> The HC seems to have a lot of electrical parts working together how much work is it to get these installed and working in sink with each other. has there been many issues with failure or break down of these electronic parts.
> 
> In one of the pics you can see a round gauge on side of the plenum what that for?
> 
> Also how big of wood are you guys using in the HC , My Newmac will take big wood , round stuff 10" across anyhow, but generally larger wood.
> 
> Does the wood for the HC have to be dry, I generally run dry wood but sometimes its a little green how does that effect the HC .
> 
> sorry for all the questions but appreciate any info


hey NSGUY welcome to the forum these guys definitely know their stuff when it comes to wood burners so you’re in the right place.  So I’ll try to answer as best as I can as you and I were in an identical spot about a month ago when I took the plunge haha. 

So technical  the stove is more advanced but nothing you should be scared of it’s actually a dream of you have someone like a wife or kids who’s always been scared of the stove haha you hit the green button load the firebox wait for fire and shut the door the stove takes over from there it adjusts draft to the need of the thermostat in your house.

So attaching it to your existing plenum you can do but the manual says minimum 6 6” take offs which Is somewhere around 175” of air distribution the stove needs so just make sure your existing has that and your golden. For my setup I had ductwork already running through my house  so I tied 6 of the take offs into it and ran an extra 1 to the master bedroom close to the stove.

The dampers people are talking about are because they have ac or tied into another heating appliance and don’t want it to back feed is all. You don’t need to worry if it’s by itself.

It does have lots of electrical parts but everything is assembled when it arrives you don’t have to worry about messing with anything other than getting it in place and connecting the flue and thermostat. So as for wood you do have to use dry wood as the manual calls for 15-28% moisture for it so it’s not like the older ones where throw in what you want. But I will add I tried a fairly wet round that I didn’t split last night to see how it would handle it and it did an amazing job there was coals and nothing when I woke up this morning.


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> That's the best place to get 'em anyways...and I think the warehouse is in Indiana or Illinois, so they ship pretty quick from what I've heard
> EDIT: oops, I didn't see that @NSGUY is in Canada...


They have a warehouse in Canada too mfp is who I bought mine from. It’s in Quebec City for anyone wondering from the Canada end.


----------



## NSGUY

Rockstar1346 said:


> hey NSGUY welcome to the forum these guys definitely know their stuff when it comes to wood burners so you’re in the right place.  So I’ll try to answer as best as I can as you and I were in an identical spot about a month ago when I took the plunge haha.
> 
> So technical  the stove is more advanced but nothing you should be scared of it’s actually a dream of you have someone like a wife or kids who’s always been scared of the stove haha you hit the green button load the firebox wait for fire and shut the door the stove takes over from there it adjusts draft to the need of the thermostat in your house.
> 
> So attaching it to your existing plenum you can do but the manual says minimum 6 6” take offs which Is somewhere around 175” of air distribution the stove needs so just make sure your existing has that and your golden. For my setup I had ductwork already running through my house  so I tied 6 of the take offs into it and ran an extra 1 to the master bedroom close to the stove.
> 
> The dampers people are talking about are because they have ac or tied into another heating appliance and don’t want it to back feed is all. You don’t need to worry if it’s by itself.
> 
> It does have lots of electrical parts but everything is assembled when it arrives you don’t have to worry about messing with anything other than getting it in place and connecting the flue and thermostat. So as for wood you do have to use dry wood as the manual calls for 15-28% moisture for it so it’s not like the older ones where throw in what you want. But I will add I tried a fairly wet round that I didn’t split last night to see how it would handle it and it did an amazing job there was coals and nothing when I woke up this morning.


Hey Rockstar thanks for the reply,  did you buy on Canada side or USA and have it picked, your right the exchange rate doesn't seem to work out in our favor lol. They extended the $150 off for me for an other day but won't do nothing else. I'm still on the fence what to do.


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Hey Rockstar thanks for the reply,  did you buy on Canada side or USA and have it picked, your right the exchange rate doesn't seem to work out in our favor lol. They extended the $150 off for me for an other day but won't do nothing else. I'm still on the fence what to do.


Yeah so I did everything you did reach out to mfp reach out to drolet and none of em could seem to give me a straight answer why the price difference cause it is manufactured right here in Canada so we should get it for at least the same price as the USA site. So what I did is searched and actually I found it believe it or not on eBay. After countless messages back and fourth with the seller it’s actually someone that sells for mfp. So I bought from there and they had it drop shipped right to me within a week of ordering and for the price it should be 3400$ and I also got the 150$ rebate because they include the receipt too. Hope this helps this is the cheapest most effective way out there for us Canadians. By the way which part of Canada are you from? I assume Nova Scotia cause of the name haha


----------



## NSGUY

Rockstar1346 said:


> Yeah so I did everything you did reach out to mfp reach out to drolet and none of em could seem to give me a straight answer why the price difference cause it is manufactured right here in Canada so we should get it for at least the same price as the USA site. So what I did is searched and actually I found it believe it or not on eBay. After countless messages back and fourth with the seller it’s actually someone that sells for mfp. So I bought from there and they had it drop shipped right to me within a week of ordering and for the price it should be 3400$ and I also got the 150$ rebate because they include the receipt too. Hope this helps this is the cheapest most effective way out there for us Canadians. By the way which part of Canada are you from? I assume Nova Scotia cause of the name haha



Yeah I'm in Nova Scotia, Thanks for the info I'll search for the seller on ebay, If you happen to still no who it was just PM me the name pls if you don't mind. But I'm not going to pay the $4400 it is now, they kinda ripping us off


----------



## brenndatomu

This says free shipping to USA and Canada...and "or best offer" too...looks like they have accepted 3 offers in the past (of 7 sold) probably won't go a ton less though as I see the price listed is already $100 less then the other 4 they sold.








						Drolet Heat Commander Wood Furnace - 310,000 BTU, EPA Certified, Model# DF02003 773388206899 | eBay
					

3.6 ft³ firebox. Firebox lined with refractory bricks for better heat distribution. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity makes this furnace versatile and ideal for heating spaces up to 2,500 ft².



					www.ebay.com


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> This says free shipping to USA and Canada...and "or best offer" too...looks like they have accepted 3 offers in the past (of 7 sold) probably won't go a ton less though as I see the price listed is already $100 less then the other 4 they sold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Drolet Heat Commander Wood Furnace - 310,000 BTU, EPA Certified, Model# DF02003 773388206899 | eBay
> 
> 
> 3.6 ft³ firebox. Firebox lined with refractory bricks for better heat distribution. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity makes this furnace versatile and ideal for heating spaces up to 2,500 ft².
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Thanks I never used  ebay before don't really know my way around it lol , does it show how much the accecpted offer were for.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> does it show how much the accecpted offer were for


No...you can make an offer, they will either accept or counter...that can happen 3x before you have to accept the offer or pay the listed price


----------



## Rockstar1346

Yeah when I purchased it was 2799$ us with free shipping and it is 100% someone who works for mfp because when I got my bill of lading it had the receipt attached to it so I could claim the 150$ rebate and register the warranty.


----------



## NSGUY

Rockstar1346 said:


> Yeah when I purchased it was 2799$ us with free shipping and it is 100% someone who works for mfp because when I got my bill of lading it had the receipt attached to it so I could claim the 150$ rebate and register the warranty.


Awesome, He just accepted my offer from this morning. I'm happy I'm getting one


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Awesome, He just accepted my offer from this morning. I'm happy I'm getting one


Great, do you mind sharing the price?
So what does ~$2700 end up being for you in Canadian?
When it says free shipping, does that still apply for you there...like there isn't any extra tariffs, etc?


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Great, do you mind sharing the price?
> So what does ~$2700 end up being for you in Canadian?
> When it says free shipping, does that still apply for you there...like there isn't any extra tariffs, etc?


I don't mind you asking  but not sure i should share it on an open fourm ,  the other side may not wish to have it out there,  or may not care I don't know.  I can say $2,700 usa today is about $3,455 Cdn.   It actually shows $200 usa for shipping , but its included in my deal.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I don't mind you asking but not sure i should share it on an open fourm , the other side may not wish to have it out there, or may not care I don't know.


Yup, understandable.


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys Have a question about my duct work I have now , I'd like to try and reuse it if possible. I'm wondering if some of you guys that have these would give me your opinion on what you think.

ok so off my plenum now I have a 28-30 foot run of hot air duct,  that hot air  duct that connects to the plenum is 12 x 20 right at the plenum,  but quickly reduces to 8x20 for the whole length of the duct work,  of that 30 foot run of duct work I have 7,   5 inch runs of piping to my vents.

on top of that I have 3 , 5 inch runs of piping directly off of my plenum that runs to vents upstairs as well 

Do you think its possible to run that same duct work as is now off  a plenum on the heat commander.

thanks scott


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> ok so off my plenum now I have a 28-30 foot run of hot air duct, that hot air duct that connects to the plenum is 12 x 20 right at the plenum, but quickly reduces to 8x20 for the whole length of the duct work, of that 30 foot run of duct work I have 7, 5 inch runs of piping to my vents.
> 
> on top of that I have 3 , 5 inch runs of piping directly off of my plenum that runs to vents upstairs as well
> 
> Do you think its possible to run that same duct work as is now off a plenum on the heat commander.


So where it reduces to 8x20, that's a little small right off the bat...(by 10 sq in...170 is minimum) but the bigger issue is then it further reduces when going to the (7) 5" runs...that's a total of 33 sq inches too small...if you added 2 more 5 or 6" runs right to the HC plenum you'd be ok though...


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> So where it reduces to 8x20, that's a little small right off the bat...(by 10 sq in...170 is minimum) but the bigger issue is then it further reduces when going to the (7) 5" runs...that's a total of 33 sq inches too small...if you added 2 more 5 or 6" runs right to the HC plenum you'd be ok though...


ok so I have 160 sq in for my duct work and yeah I see what your saying with the (7) 5" runs thats only  about 137 sq in

but I do have the 3 more 5" run directly off the plenum, and they will run directly off the HC plenum , so that should add  another 59 sq in  so my total over all  should be 196 sq in ,  Right

i'm starting to think this furnace maybe over kill for my place lol ,  1300 sq ft main level plus full basement , this furnace maybe more of a beast then I thought


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> but I do have the 3 more 5" run directly off the plenum, and they will run directly off the HC plenum , so that should add another 59 sq in so my total over all should be 196 sq in , Right


Correct...I guess I missed the 3 extra 5" runs.


NSGUY said:


> i'm starting to think this furnace maybe over kill for my place lol , 1300 sq ft main level plus full basement , this furnace maybe more of a beast then I thought


You had a Newmac before right? The HC should have a lot more "range" than the NM did...trying to run the NM "low and slow" pretty much just gets you a bunch of smoke and creosote, no? The HC will cut back the air once the thermostat is satisfied, but still keep the burn clean...keep in mind you will still need to load according to the temperature outside...you don't want to stuff 'er to the gills when its only going down to 40*F overnight (unless your house is very leaky!)


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Correct...I guess I missed the 3 extra 5" runs.
> 
> You had a Newmac before right? The HC should have a lot more "range" than the NM did...trying to run the NM "low and slow" pretty much just gets you a bunch of smoke and creosote, no? The HC will cut back the air once the thermostat is satisfied, but still keep the burn clean...keep in mind you will still need to load according to the temperature outside...you don't want to stuff 'er to the gills when its only going down to 40*F overnight (unless your house is very leaky!)



Yes your 100% correct I have a Newmac WB100 that i am replacing its pushing 20 years old,  she is a wood eater, pretty much wide open or nothing, on the cold nights you roast your self out for the first half in order to have a long enough fire to keep the house warm for morning lol. its a roller coaster.  thats what I really like about the HC it will give an even heat with some longevity.

Its -7c here tonight  i think that 19f   since 6 pm I put wood in twice its now 12.30 am  i'm going down now to put a bunch more in for the night ,  by morning the house will be cooled off a bit and i'll be lucky if there is enough coals to start it up again.  and i have a pretty tight house.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Yes your 100% correct I have a Newmac WB100 that i am replacing its pushing 20 years old,  she is a wood eater, pretty much wide open or nothing, on the cold nights you roast your self out for the first half in order to have a long enough fire to keep the house warm for morning lol. its a roller coaster.  thats what I really like about the HC it will give an even heat with some longevity.


Oh boy, that doesn't sound like much fun...I think you are gonna be a happy camper...


----------



## laynes69

Oh yeah, it will be a night and day difference for you! You'll be sleeping through the night not having to worry about loading. You'll also be spoiled by pressing a button, loading and walking away. Set the thermostat, go to bed.


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> Oh yeah, it will be a night and day difference for you! You'll be sleeping through the night not having to worry about loading. You'll also be spoiled by pressing a button, loading and walking away. Set the thermostat, go to bed.


You sir need to update your sig line!


----------



## NSGUY

ok so here is another question,  say the thermostat is set at 70, fire in the furnace and everything is running normal, but I go out for awhile get held up or something and don't get back before the fire goes out. , what does the furnace do/ does it still try to make heat even though there is no fire,  will it hurt anything etc.  Thanks


----------



## SpaceBus

NSGUY said:


> ok so here is another question,  say the thermostat is set at 70, fire in the furnace and everything is running normal, but I go out for awhile get held up or something and don't get back before the fire goes out. , what does the furnace do/ does it still try to make heat even though there is no fire,  will it hurt anything etc.  Thanks


I'm pretty sure the distribution blower will turn off if the plenum temperature gets too low.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> ok so here is another question,  say the thermostat is set at 70, fire in the furnace and everything is running normal, but I go out for awhile get held up or something and don't get back before the fire goes out. , what does the furnace do/ does it still try to make heat even though there is no fire,  will it hurt anything etc.  Thanks


I'll let one of the HC owners confirm, but my understanding is that the first step of "fire going out" is that it will open the "under fire" air (grate) so the coals will burn down and the potential heat from them can be maximized, if no wood is added and the firebox temp gets too low, all the air is closed and at some point when the plenum temp is down to the minimum preset temp, the blower turns off (although I'm sure just like any wood furnace, the blower will continue to cycle on/off a few times as the furnace grows colder)


----------



## NSGUY

So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper ? and your thoughts on them, either way i think I'll run the magnehelic gauge just so I can monitor the chimney.  The only thing I'm thinking is with  barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?


----------



## NorMi

I don't have your furnace, but I just hooked up a magnehelic 0-0.25" gauge to see if I needed a baro as I'm getting ready to relocate my furnace and make a few other changes, I wanted to see how it ran in the current location.  I like it as far as mechanical gauges go, easy to see from across the room.   A little spendy and they cheaped out and didn't send any screws to mount it in the holder or any plugs or fittings, so not a fan of the company, but the gauge does seem well made.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper ? and your thoughts on them, either way i think I'll run the magnehelic gauge just so I can monitor the chimney.  The only thing I'm thinking is with  barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?


A cheap Dwyer Mark II model 25 is plenty good enough for checking draft and static pressures on a wood furnace...they can be bought on ebay and the like, lightly used or NOS for $25-40 (last I checked) just make sure you get one that has the (red) gauge oil with it as that is a little spendy to buy by itself if its missing from the kit...the other stuff (hoses and fittings, etc) not such a big deal.
I leave mine hooked up to the chimney all the time just to verify everything is in the happy place...I had issues with the baro hanging up on my old (creosote monster) Yukon furnace so I just am in the habit of glancing over and verifying that things are right.
Oh, and my personal opinion/experience is that worrying about getting your static pressure up to .2" (IIRC) is not terribly important, as long as its not higher than that (furnace can overheat) and its doing a good job of heating your house with a "less than" .2" reading, no big deal.
I pulled my hair out trying to get .2" on my system years ago, but found the only way to do it was to either restrict my ducts so much that it then didn't feel like the heat was well distributed, or to put the blower on high speed and then the darn thing just kicked on/off all day n night!
I've slowly come to the conclusion that in older houses that likely have large (now considered oversized) ducts (my place had a huge coal furnace originally, forced air, not the "octopus style") its futile chasing the "static pressure tiger"...again, as long as the furnace is heating the place well and the SP is not too high.
On the multiple wood furnaces I've installed I first check the static pressure (make sure its not too high) and then I look more so at the temp rise across the furnace (cold air return temp VS supply plenum temp) and on the modern wood furnaces I have personal experience with, (not a HC) if you can get 40-50* temp rise (average) it'll heat the place...that's right where my last several furnaces  have come in 40* up to maybe a spike of 50* during the peak of the fire...


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper ? and your thoughts on them, either way i think I'll run the magnehelic gauge just so I can monitor the chimney.  The only thing I'm thinking is with  barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?


I personally would just permanently install a manometer or magnehelic gauge. It's a super useful tool and something that you can glance at every time you are near the furnace for a little piece of mind knowing  that everything is working as it should.  It's kind of like checking you MPG on your vehicle, a sudden drop can tell you something is wrong. 

Eric


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> (although I'm sure just like any wood furnace, the blower will continue to cycle on/off a few times as the furnace grows colder)



No blower cycling here!  If it's on, it stays on, when it goes off, it stays off.     



NSGUY said:


> So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper?



I am running a Magnehelic and a BD.



NSGUY said:


> The only thing I'm thinking is with barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?



I run an OAK connected directly to my BD, so I'm using cold outside air to send up the chimney vs using heated basement air.  I don't have an SBI furnace though, as I have a Kuuma.



NorMi said:


> A little spendy and they cheaped out and didn't send any screws to mount it in the holder or any plugs or fittings, so not a fan of the company, but the gauge does seem well made.



This is what I have and I received everything I was supposed to when I bought both the gauge and mount.


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> No blower cycling here! If it's on, it stays on, when it goes off, it stays off.


Yeah yeah yeah...but you well know that's not a fair fight with a stock furnace


----------



## NorMi

This is how I have mine secured into the mount 




I didn't call them to see if they would send me any screws or fittings, but this is just temporary and then probably live in a box for most of its life after I put together the digital stuff that will replace it.


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah yeah yeah...but you well know that's not a fair fight with a stock furnace


----------



## laynes69

brenndatomu said:


> You sir need to update your sig line!


Lol. Oh yeah!


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> I personally would just permanently install a manometer or magnehelic gauge. It's a super useful tool and something that you can glance at every time you are near the furnace for a little piece of mind knowing  that everything is working as it should.  It's kind of like checking you MPG on your vehicle, a sudden drop can tell you something is wrong.
> 
> Eric


I read the entire thread a lot of good stuff in there,  I remember you guys talking about the draft but can't seem to find it now,  where did you guys settle on the best draft for the flue/chimney  was it .04 or .06  thanks


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> I read the entire thread a lot of good stuff in there,  I remember you guys talking about the draft but can't seem to find it now,  where did you guys settle on the best draft for the flue/chimney  was it .04 or .06  thanks


Might depend on the quality/dryness of your wood and how full the firebox is. My draft is usually way high due to the height of my flue. After the firebox is heated up I adjust down to .06. 

Eric


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Yes your 100% correct I have a Newmac WB100 that i am replacing its pushing 20 years old,  she is a wood eater, pretty much wide open or nothing, on the cold nights you roast your self out for the first half in order to have a long enough fire to keep the house warm for morning lol. its a roller coaster.  thats what I really like about the HC it will give an even heat with some longevity.
> 
> Its -7c here tonight  i think that 19f   since 6 pm I put wood in twice its now 12.30 am  i'm going down now to put a bunch more in for the night ,  by morning the house will be cooled off a bit and i'll be lucky if there is enough coals to start it up again.  and i have a pretty tight house.


So in NB it was -11 and I filled up With about 6 splits in log cabin at 8:30 to get a really good fire and coals going I then put 6 more on top of that at about 1pm and that was on a real nice bed of coals about 1/3 full firebox and that will get me to supper time or after. When I do it once more and get to midnight when I got to bed I’ll check to see how cold overnight and load accordingly but I always have coals in the morning. House is never freezing when I wake up lowest is maybe 19 degrees.


brenndatomu said:


> I'll let one of the HC owners confirm, but my understanding is that the first step of "fire going out" is that it will open the "under fire" air (grate) so the coals will burn down and the potential heat from them can be maximized, if no wood is added and the firebox temp gets too low, all the air is closed and at some point when the plenum temp is down to the minimum preset temp, the blower turns off (although I'm sure just like any wood furnace, the blower will continue to cycle on/off a few times as the furnace grows colder)


This is bang on what happens. Builds up heat from the coals and cycles the blower in short bursts.


NSGUY said:


> ok so here is another question,  say the thermostat is set at 70, fire in the furnace and everything is running normal, but I go out for awhile get held up or something and don't get back before the fire goes out. , what does the furnace do/ does it still try to make heat even though there is no fire,  will it hurt anything etc.  Thanks


Yeah basically it burns low and slow when the thermostat is satisfied. I have it set to 21 once it reaches that it will dampen down and burn slow as it needs until there’s no coals left. Eventually the light goes out cause there’s no heat to salvage just a few coals,it won’t hurt anything it knows what to do haha. If I got out anywhere I just load it like I’m leaving for the day.


----------



## sleewok

I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.

Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.

Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.
> 
> Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.
> 
> Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.
> 
> View attachment 287230


Glad to hear that this fixed your draft up for you...but, after reading about your install fiasco I have a question or two...this area that you had to bust the flue out, about 8' down...looks like that puts you about at the roofline, maybe a bit lower?


----------



## Highbeam

sleewok said:


> I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.
> 
> Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.
> 
> Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.
> 
> View attachment 287230



Looks like solar panels and you obviously value efficiency and quality. Why didn't you just tear down that undersized, leaky, cracked thing and put in a full pipe system?


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> Glad to hear that this fixed your draft up for you...but, after reading about your install fiasco I have a question or two...this area that you had to bust the flue out, about 8' down...looks like that puts you about at the roofline, maybe a bit lower?


Thanks! Yeah, that sounds about right. I think it is right a out where the stone transitions to block. The larger section I busted was probably 12 - 15 feet down. Only that small section passes through the roof and then down along the side of the house.


----------



## sleewok

Highbeam said:


> Looks like solar panels and you obviously value efficiency and quality. Why didn't you just tear down that undersized, leaky, cracked thing and put in a full pipe system?


True! We are doing a lot of remodeling right now and don't have the extra $2-$3k to get it replaced completely. Hopefully I'll get 5 years out of it before it needs to be torn down. Not ideal.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> Thanks! Yeah, that sounds about right. I think it is right a out where the stone transitions to block. The larger section I busted was probably 12 - 15 feet down. Only that small section passes through the roof and then down along the side of the house.


Yeah...I was afraid of that...if you were willing to break out the clay you should have went ahead and done it all...then put the insulation wrap on the liner...and had even better draft, and a cleaner flue...the real problem now is there's no way to know what your CTC measurements are in there...if any. If you are sure that bare liner will do the job during a chimney fire, don't be...a 2000* chimney fire will turn that sheet metal red hot in about 1 second...and ASSUMING that there is a layer of block between 2000* and your wood structure...block is only about R1...and if the chimney has already had issues over the years, the wood next to it may be properly pyrolyzed already...so now it can spontaneously combust as low as 200*F (even a bit lower actually) How long will that "R1" block keep the 2000* on the other side at bay? Hopefully long enough...but that sure wouldn't make me sleep well on a cold winters night though.
The whole chimney is _supposed_ to have a 1" gap between the chimney and the structure (on an external chimney, 2" on an internal) but they very often don't, so the only way to 100%  meet CTC requirements is with the insulation wrap (which can be 2" CTC, just by itself then) The other issue is that many times the chimney may have wood mortared (improperly) right into its structure.
Keep in mind that with single wall pipe (what you have now) CTC is 18", 9" with a non combustible shield and a ventilated 1" air gap between it and the wood...and I know you don't have 9" clearance there anywhere...maybe not even 1".
Not trying to pee on your parade, just educate...


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah...I was afraid of that...if you were willing to break out the clay you should have went ahead and done it all...then put the insulation wrap on the liner...and had even better draft, and a cleaner flue...the real problem now is there's no way to know what your CTC measurements are in there...if any. If you are sure that bare liner will do the job during a chimney fire, don't be...a 2000* chimney fire will turn that sheet metal red hot in about 1 second...and ASSUMING that there is a layer of block between 2000* and your wood structure...block is only about R1...and if the chimney has already had issues over the years, the wood next to it may be properly pyrolyzed already...so now it can spontaneously combust as low as 200*F (even a bit lower actually) How long will that "R1" block keep the 2000* on the other side at bay? Hopefully long enough...but that sure wouldn't make me sleep well on a cold winters night though.
> The whole chimney is _supposed_ to have a 1" gap between the chimney and the structure (on an external chimney, 2" on an internal) but they very often don't, so the only way to 100%  meet CTC requirements is with the insulation wrap (which can be 2" CTC, just by itself then) The other issue is that many times the chimney may have wood mortared (improperly) right into its structure.
> Keep in mind that with single wall pipe (what you have now) CTC is 18", 9" with a non combustible shield and a ventilated 1" air gap between it and the wood...and I know you don't have 9" clearance there anywhere...maybe not even 1".
> Not trying to pee on your parade, just educate...


Dang. Well, this is really helpful information. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me on this. I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof, but I know some of the sides are touching the soffit. 

I think I found the information on clearances that you are referring to: https://up.codes/viewer/connecticut/irc-2012/chapter/10/chimneys-and-fireplaces#R1003.18

I couldn't find anything on the 18" / 9". Could you clarify that a bit? 

Any suggestions since I have a 1" gap? Should I install a non-combustible shield on the siding? What about the soffit?

I know this is getting a bit off-topic of the HC, but perhaps will be helpful to others!

Thanks again!


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof,


Well, that's good that you could actually verify that its there...I'm not sure what the proper way to handle the soffit would be...other than pull the liner, knock out rest of clay liner, do the insulation kit on the liner, reinstall...but I also know that has a pretty high suck factor too.
As far as the 18"/9" thing...I was talking about single wall stove pipe CTC...its 18" or with the proper shielding, 9" minimum.
Might be a good time to get a pro opinion here @bholler 
Here is the post that started the discussion bholler... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-furnace-day-drolet-heat-commander.183421/post-2552504


----------



## SpaceBus

Redoing the liner is probably the best and safest way to handle the clearance problems.


----------



## bholler

Busy working but I will look through it later


----------



## bholler

sleewok said:


> Dang. Well, this is really helpful information. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me on this. I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof, but I know some of the sides are touching the soffit.
> 
> I think I found the information on clearances that you are referring to: https://up.codes/viewer/connecticut/irc-2012/chapter/10/chimneys-and-fireplaces#R1003.18
> 
> I couldn't find anything on the 18" / 9". Could you clarify that a bit?
> 
> Any suggestions since I have a 1" gap? Should I install a non-combustible shield on the siding? What about the soffit?
> 
> I know this is getting a bit off-topic of the HC, but perhaps will be helpful to others!
> 
> Thanks again!


You need a liner.  Because you have the required clearances you don't really need insulation but I would still  do it.  Atleast with pour in.


----------



## sleewok

bholler said:


> You need a liner.  Because you have the required clearances you don't really need insulation but I would still  do it.  Atleast with pour in.


Awesome. Thanks for checking. I'll get some perlite and pour it in (unless there is a better option). I'll probably have to get something a little finer to get it to fill the small space and flow into the areas I busted out.


----------



## bholler

sleewok said:


> Awesome. Thanks for checking. I'll get some perlite and pour it in (unless there is a better option). I'll probably have to get something a little finer to get it to fill the small space and flow into the areas I busted out.


You want to use a chimney insulation mix that has a little cement in it.  If you don't it will settle and pack in the bottom


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guy's another question,  My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping ,  From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace  on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it.  how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol


----------



## brenndatomu

Slide it over what kind of surface?


----------



## hobbyheater

NSGUY said:


> Hey guy's another question,  My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping ,  From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace  on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it.  how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol


Rent a pallet jack!


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Slide it over what kind of surface?


From my driveway across my front lawn down a little slop, not much to my basement  door,  I hoping to lay down 2x8's or something and slide it, generally my front yard is pretty hard and the truck could get pretty close to the basement door, but a few days ago we got  almost 2 feet of snow,  yesterday and last night we had enough rain to rain all the snow away and then some,so everything is a little soupy


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Hey guy's another question,  My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping ,  From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace  on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it.  how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol


This is how it comes on a pallet with sides all around it. It also comes with ply wood sides but I removed them so I could get a picture. But to move I’m lucky enough to be in the business that moves a lot of heavy things so it took about 6 of us but we picked the front up put it on a furniture dolly then lifted the back by the blower and got it on one wheeler it to my back stairs and there’s feet on the bottom that are screwed to the pallet we screwed it to a sheet of plywood hooked 3 ropes to it. 3 people at the top and 3 at the bottom of it this thing is extremely heavy and you will need a lot of help to move it.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> From my driveway across my front lawn down a little slop, not much to my basement  door,  I hoping to lay down 2x8's or something and slide it, generally my front yard is pretty hard and the truck could get pretty close to the basement door, but a few days ago we got  almost 2 feet of snow,  yesterday and last night we had enough rain to rain all the snow away and then some,so everything is a little soupy


Sounds like some 2x8"s would make a good surface to slide on...you'd have 4 of them so you can "leapfrog" as you go? 
Another technique I like is to use pipe as rollers...2 pieces of 1"x 36"(ish) pipe can be leapfrogged front to rear if you have a solid surface to roll on (those 2x8s should qualify)


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Hey guy's another question,  My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping ,  From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace  on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it.  how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol


I think I used a couple boards screwed to the bottom of the furnace. Reuse boards from the pallet and use the same location that the factory secured the furnace to the pallet. 

I used my ATV and winch to lower the furnace on a n appliance dolly down my garage to basement steps. 

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> I think I used a couple boards screwed to the bottom of the furnace. Reuse boards from the pallet and use the same location that the factory secured the furnace to the pallet.
> 
> I used my ATV and winch to lower the furnace on a n appliance dolly down my garage to basement steps.
> 
> Eric


Thanks,  After thinking some more tonight, I was thinking along the same lines as you, I think I might lay down my boards, maybe a cooking oil on them and winch the pallet and everything right across them. just leap frogging my boards.  then just man handle it right in the basement.


----------



## brenndatomu

Too bad that snow went away...pack it down a lil and turn that crate into a sleigh!


----------



## sleewok

I used round wood "broom handles" to roll it. How do you plan to physically get it off the pallet?

On another subject. Update on burn times.. (burn time defined as time wood first lights to the time it is down to coals and still able to light a new load). I did my first load running the wood east / west (parallel to the front). I would not recommend doing this without coals burning. This morning it is still 70 - 72 in the 4500 sqft house and the plenum is very hot to touch (that's my check to see how much heat I'll get with blower running...hahaha).

I loaded with fairly large splits of oak 6+ inches. Keep in mind the furnace was hot and the house was already up to temp.
Loaded at 6PM last night. Added 1 large split to the front around 10PM. 5AM this morning and I expect to get another few hours. I'll load before though to boost BTUH.

That puts it at 10+ hours and still putting out decent BTUH!


----------



## sleewok

sleewok said:


> I used round wood "broom handles" to roll it. How do you plan to physically get it off the pallet?
> 
> On another subject. Update on burn times.. (burn time defined as time wood first lights to the time it is down to coals and still able to light a new load). I did my first load running the wood east / west (parallel to the front). I would not recommend doing this without coals burning. This morning it is still 70 - 72 in the 4500 sqft house and the plenum is very hot to touch (that's my check to see how much heat I'll get with blower running...hahaha).
> 
> I loaded with fairly large splits of oak 6+ inches. Keep in mind the furnace was hot and the house was already up to temp.
> Loaded at 6PM last night. Added 1 large split to the front around 10PM. 5AM this morning and I expect to get another few hours. I'll load before though to boost BTUH.
> 
> That puts it at 10+ hours and still putting out decent BTUH!


Forgot the photo of the coals this morning.


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys , how you all doing?   

Just an update I got my furnace today.  Ended up getting in my basement by myself, calling for some rain or snow this afternoon and -6 tonight so didn't want it setting out side.  2x4's and 2x8's and bottle of dish soap and easy peasy slid right along. 

got it opened up tonight and she is a beaut, So happy so far I got this furnace, So thank you to everyone on here that took time to answer my questions and pm me greatly appreciate it otherwise I may not of bought this furnace or even found this sell for that matter. 

Its going to be a bit before I get it hooked up, in the new year at some point, but looking forward to it. Only bad part is I'm probably going to have to do the first burn off in the house,  How bad is it ? or do I really  need to drag it outside again lol.

I have one question though after inspecting it, it is a fine furnace no question, but in the fire box , right in the center of the back their is like a tube that goes from top to bottom , well on one side of it on the top row of bricks  there is about a 3/4" gap between that tube and the bricks you can seen into the back plate of the fire box, the same on the bottom but its only about a 1/2"  I take it  that is probably normal and nothing to worry about.


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys , how you all doing?
> 
> Just an update I got my furnace today.  Ended up getting in my basement by myself, calling for some rain or snow this afternoon and -6 tonight so didn't want it setting out side.  2x4's and 2x8's and bottle of dish soap and easy peasy slid right along.
> 
> got it opened up tonight and she is a beaut, So happy so far I got this furnace, So thank you to everyone on here that took time to answer my questions and pm me greatly appreciate it otherwise I may not of bought this furnace or even found this sell for that matter.
> 
> Its going to be a bit before I get it hooked up, in the new year at some point, but looking forward to it. Only bad part is I'm probably going to have to do the first burn off in the house,  How bad is it ? or do I really  need to drag it outside again lol.
> 
> I have one question though after inspecting it, it is a fine furnace no question, but in the fire box , right in the center of the back their is like a tube that goes from top to bottom , well on one side of it on the top row of bricks  there is about a 3/4" gap between that tube and the bricks you can seen into the back plate of the fire box, the same on the bottom but its only about a 1/2"  I take it  that is probably normal and nothing to worry about.


I wouldn't worry about having the first burn outside. I had a couple minor fires in my furnace in my driveway and there wasn't enough draft to even get the firebox very hot. I would just open a few windows, hopefully on a warmer day.

With this model there does seem to be a little more play between the fire bricks. They will also move around a little throughout the season. I have the same gaps and have not noticed any issues and I'm on my second season. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I have one question though after inspecting it, it is a fine furnace no question, but in the fire box , right in the center of the back their is like a tube that goes from top to bottom , well on one side of it on the top row of bricks there is about a 3/4" gap between that tube and the bricks you can seen into the back plate of the fire box, the same on the bottom but its only about a 1/2" I take it that is probably normal and nothing to worry about.


I'm sure the bricks fit very similar to how they are in the Tundra and Caddy line...look in the back of the manual for how they fit (if any are out of place) but sounds to me like the bricks just need to be slide back to the center after it's in its permanent spot...there will end up being a void in the corner, behind the firebrick...which is fine.
Also make sure the baffle(s) above the secondary air tubes is properly in its spot too...easy to fall out during transport (or reloading sometimes) and makes a huge difference in how the fire burns!


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> I'm sure the bricks fit very similar to how they are in the Tundra and Caddy line...look in the back of the manual for how they fit (if any are out of place) but sounds to me like the bricks just need to be slide back to the center after it's in its permanent spot...there will end up being a void in the corner, behind the firebrick...which is fine.
> Also make sure the baffle(s) above the secondary air tubes is properly in its spot too...easy to fall out during transport (or reloading sometimes) and makes a huge difference in how the fire burns!


Good call! The HC uses a 2-piece baffle which needs to be slid tight to the rear of the furnace.

Eric


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys , how you all doing?
> 
> Just an update I got my furnace today.  Ended up getting in my basement by myself, calling for some rain or snow this afternoon and -6 tonight so didn't want it setting out side.  2x4's and 2x8's and bottle of dish soap and easy peasy slid right along.
> 
> got it opened up tonight and she is a beaut, So happy so far I got this furnace, So thank you to everyone on here that took time to answer my questions and pm me greatly appreciate it otherwise I may not of bought this furnace or even found this sell for that matter.
> 
> Its going to be a bit before I get it hooked up, in the new year at some point, but looking forward to it. Only bad part is I'm probably going to have to do the first burn off in the house,  How bad is it ? or do I really  need to drag it outside again lol.
> 
> I have one question though after inspecting it, it is a fine furnace no question, but in the fire box , right in the center of the back their is like a tube that goes from top to bottom , well on one side of it on the top row of bricks  there is about a 3/4" gap between that tube and the bricks you can seen into the back plate of the fire box, the same on the bottom but its only about a 1/2"  I take it  that is probably normal and nothing to worry about.


Yeah I wouldn’t worry about the burn off I warned the wife about it but first few fires she didn’t even know it was running. As for the gaps I wouldn’t worry much I can’t really touch on it as I removed mine to move it down stairs then just followed the install manual at the back to put em all back in and some were kinda loose but all fit tight. The only thing I’d double check is the baffle boards at the top I had no clue they had to be at the back so mine were split down the middle instead of the front where the gap should be but I noticed after 3rd or 4th fire.


----------



## Pflum

I've been having a little issue with my HC. With no heat available (light out), air shudders closed, I press the button to reload and nothing happens. I'm usually doing this with enough coals for a matchless relight. I have to unplug the furnace and plug back in, then the button works as normal. Haven't had the problem reloading when there's more heat in the firebox. Anyone else had this happen?


----------



## Rockstar1346

Pflum said:


> I've been having a little issue with my HC. With no heat available (light out), air shudders closed, I press the button to reload and nothing happens. I'm usually doing this with enough coals for a matchless relight. I have to unplug the furnace and plug back in, then the button works as normal. Haven't had the problem reloading when there's more heat in the firebox. Anyone else had this happen?


Kind of so I’ve run into this about 2 times so far and I don’t exactly know why but I think it has something to do with the thermostat being satisfied already. I’ve tossed splits in on the coals and just walked away and come back later to expect them lit but they are just smouldering with no light and clearly visible coals.


----------



## sleewok

Pflum said:


> I've been having a little issue with my HC. With no heat available (light out), air shudders closed, I press the button to reload and nothing happens. I'm usually doing this with enough coals for a matchless relight. I have to unplug the furnace and plug back in, then the button works as normal. Haven't had the problem reloading when there's more heat in the firebox. Anyone else had this happen?


I have noticed this as well. The shudders / dampers sometimes don't do adjust for reload when the coals are low and there is no call for heat. Once I get the fire going strong again they open. At first I just assumed that it was because the dampers were already full open. However, the other day I experienced this and when got the fire going  I heard the dampers adjust. Immediately  I could see the increase in flame. Clearly they (the dampers) were not fully opened when I pressed the reload button and the software did not trigger it. 

It sounds like a firmware issue for a scenario the programmers didn't account for.


----------



## Rockstar1346

sleewok said:


> I have noticed this as well. The shudders / dampers sometimes don't do adjust for reload when the coals are low and there is no call for heat. Once I get the fire going strong again they open. At first I just assumed that it was because the dampers were already full open. However, the other day I experienced this and when got the fire going  I heard the dampers adjust. Immediately  I could see the increase in flame. Clearly they (the dampers) were not fully opened when I pressed the reload button and the software did not trigger it.
> 
> It sounds like a firmware issue for a scenario the programmers didn't account for.


Is it something that could be solved with a simple hardware flash? I never looked at the board to see if there was a spot for usb dongle. But I know at the place I work we sell some high end height adjustable tables and they sometimes need firmware updates and you just download it to a jump drive and put it in to flash it.


----------



## maple1

sleewok said:


> I have noticed this as well. The shudders / dampers sometimes don't do adjust for reload when the coals are low and there is no call for heat. Once I get the fire going strong again they open. At first I just assumed that it was because the dampers were already full open. However, the other day I experienced this and when got the fire going  I heard the dampers adjust. Immediately  I could see the increase in flame. Clearly they (the dampers) were not fully opened when I pressed the reload button and the software did not trigger it.
> 
> It sounds like a firmware issue for a scenario the programmers didn't account for.


What if you crank a thermostat up before you head to the furnace, to create a demand for heat? If I am reading the issue right.


----------



## Rockstar1346

maple1 said:


> What if you crank a thermostat up before you head to the furnace, to create a demand for heat? If I am reading the issue right.


When I load first thing in the morning there is already a demand for heat from my stat as I don’t load completely full at night time.


----------



## maple1

Ok, I must be misunderstanding something. I read above in a couple of posts, mention of no call for heat, and also thermostat being satisfied. When this happens.


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> The shudders / dampers sometimes don't do adjust for reload when the coals are low and there is no call for heat.


End of the quote..."no call for heat"


----------



## Rockstar1346

maple1 said:


> Ok, I must be misunderstanding something. I read above in a couple of posts, mention of no call for heat, and also thermostat being satisfied. When this happens.


Yeah that’s when I’ve actually noticed it low coal bed no light on hit the button and nothing happened. But thermostat was satisfied the past 2 times. I’ve noticed it in the AM when loading completely cold hit the button and you can’t hear the shutters close or open so I unplugged it and plugged it back in. Worked as it should, it’s not something that happens all the time it’s just an occasional thing that I’ve noticed since people have pointed it out. If you don’t hear the shutters unplugging it does fox the issue I just don’t really understand why it happens.


----------



## laynes69

I press the button whether theres a call for heat or not when loading. That way the shutters adjust and the blower shuts off so I can load.


----------



## laynes69

Rockstar1346 said:


> Yeah that’s when I’ve actually noticed it low coal bed no light on hit the button and nothing happened. But thermostat was satisfied the past 2 times. I’ve noticed it in the AM when loading completely cold hit the button and you can’t hear the shutters close or open so I unplugged it and plugged it back in. Worked as it should, it’s not something that happens all the time it’s just an occasional thing that I’ve noticed since people have pointed it out. If you don’t hear the shutters unplugging it does fox the issue I just don’t really understand why it happens.


It sounds like the air shutters were already open when you pressed the button, hence no sound. When you unplug the unit the shutters close, so when you press the button you'll hear them open again.


----------



## trx250r87

laynes69 said:


> It sounds like the air shutters were already open when you pressed the button, hence no sound. When you unplug the unit the shutters close, so when you press the button you'll hear them open again.


I wish this were the case but I know mine has done the same about 10 times in the last year. Pressing the reload button just causes the button to flash rapidly and the dampers don't open. This makes it really difficult to start a fire when there isn't any air available. Cycling power must be enough to reset because everything will function as it should after.


----------



## Pflum

Yep, I'm in the habit now of looking at the shutters. Keep a flashlight next to the furnace just for that purpose. I think this little glitch also affects the coal burn down feature. I've looked before when there is a call for heat, no heat available, and a good amount of coals in the firebox. Both shutters are closed. To me they should be open in that scenario.


----------



## Rockstar1346

Pflum said:


> Yep, I'm in the habit now of looking at the shutters. Keep a flashlight next to the furnace just for that purpose. I think this little glitch also affects the coal burn down feature. I've looked before when there is a call for heat, no heat available, and a good amount of coals in the firebox. Both shutters are closed. To me they should be open in that scenario.


Yupp I hear ya I’ve had that have you had it happen when the firebox is completely cold?


----------



## Pflum

Yes that's when it happens is on a cold firebox. Shutters are closed and pressing the button doesn't open them. Doesn't happen every time. So far unplugging and plugging back in has worked.


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> Yes that's when it happens is on a cold firebox. Shutters are closed and pressing the button doesn't open them. Doesn't happen every time. So far unplugging and plugging back in has worked.


Button doesn't light up, nothing? I wonder if it could be a bad connection in the "start" circuit...or even the button itself?
I would imagine that if you had the controls cover off and someone watching when you hit it, there may be a light on the board that would acknowledge getting a start signal from the button? (or not) Dunno, just a guess...


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Button doesn't light up, nothing? I wonder if it could be a bad connection in the "start" circuit...or even the button itself?
> I would imagine that if you had the controls cover off and someone watching when you hit it, there may be a light on the board that would acknowledge getting a start signal from the button? (or not) Dunno, just a guess...


No, I don't think it's hardware related.


----------



## Rockstar1346

trx250r87 said:


> No, I don't think it's hardware related.


I don’t think either, if it was it wouldn’t be more than a couple  experiencing it. I just think it’s software or a parameter with the sensors that they didn’t account for. I’ll try to get a video for everyone next time it happens. Like I said it’s occasional so might be a bit.


----------



## Pflum

Super warm here today so no fire. Walked by the HC earlier and hit the button, heard both shutters open up. Its sporadic, the worst kind of problem to try and figure out.


----------



## Greg46m

Pflum said:


> Yes that's when it happens is on a cold firebox. Shutters are closed and pressing the button doesn't open them. Doesn't happen every time. So far unplugging and plugging back in has worked.


I bought one soon after they started shipping last year and quickly started noticing this same issue. I contacted Drolet about it and after some back and forth they sent me a firmware update to load onto a USB drive and flash into the control board. Haven’t had the issue since, shutters go full close then wide open every time you press the start button now. 

I would have thought they would have quickly put this new firmware into the units being produced, I’m surprised that if you recently purchased yours that it wouldn’t have good firmware in it, if this issue was fixed over a year ago.


----------



## Pflum

I bought this unit at the end of the season last year, I want to say March.


----------



## Rockstar1346

Greg46m said:


> I bought one soon after they started shipping last year and quickly started noticing this same issue. I contacted Drolet about it and after some back and forth they sent me a firmware update to load onto a USB drive and flash into the control board. Haven’t had the issue since, shutters go full close then wide open every time you press the start button now.
> 
> I would have thought they would have quickly put this new firmware into the units being produced, I’m surprised that if you recently purchased yours that it wouldn’t have good firmware in it, if this issue was fixed over a year ago.


Thanks! Will be in touch with them.


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> Thanks! Will be in touch with them.


FYI, I think they are all on "holiday" until at least later in the week...maybe next week?


----------



## SBI_Nick

Rockstar1346 said:


> I don’t think either, if it was it wouldn’t be more than a couple  experiencing it. I just think it’s software or a parameter with the sensors that they didn’t account for. I’ll try to get a video for everyone next time it happens. Like I said it’s occasional so might be a bit.


Hi all,

we are trying to figure out what and when it's happening. Looks like some don't have this isssue and others have it occasionnaly. We will keep you updated.

Thanks,

Nicolas


----------



## jpgeis08

Just got my new heat commander and am working to install. I noticed the door doesn’t seem to seal very well on the hinge side. I have adjusted the right side as much as I can but I can still see a gap between the gasket and stove on the hinge side. Doesn’t appear to be any adjustments on that side. Suggestions?


----------



## Stearn786

What kind of planum temps do you guys see on the HC? I've been keeping track of my old school wood furnace and I'm curious how my plenum temps compare to a more efficient furnace. Specifically the temp rise from return to supply


----------



## brenndatomu

Stearn786 said:


> What kind of planum temps do you guys see on the HC? I've been keeping track of my old school wood furnace and I'm curious how my plenum temps compare to a more efficient furnace. Specifically the temp rise from return to supply


Old school usually run hotter (but for less time) the HC runs ~90-120* with a call for heat (runs almost full time) and ~120 to 170 (180?) (cycles on/off) when there is not a call for heat


----------



## trx250r87

brenndatomu said:


> Old school usually run hotter (but for less time) the HC runs ~90-120* with a call for heat (runs almost full time) and ~120 to 170 (180?) (cycles on/off) when there is not a call for heat


Those temps are almost exactly what I see on my HC, 90-120*F until power save mode is met, then blower cycles on/off but will not kick on until 180*. 

Eric


----------



## Stearn786

That's very similar to the temps I see on my Newmac actually. Very close CFM fan to the HC based on the spec sheet too. Thanks for the info!


----------



## brenndatomu

Anyone had an issue where the primary air shutter just keeps slamming against its stop instead of opening when the reload button is pushed? Cycling the power makes no difference...


----------



## Rockstar1346

brenndatomu said:


> Anyone had an issue where the primary air shutter just keeps slamming against its stop instead of opening when the reload button is pushed? Cycling the power makes no difference...


How do you check? Do I need to take the back off to see it? When I hit the button I can hear it but don’t see much change in the flame


----------



## brenndatomu

Well, you can hear it repeatedly slamming against the stop, and you can see it through the vent slots using a flashlight...


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> How do you check? Do I need to take the back off to see it? When I hit the button I can hear it but don’t see much change in the flame


The primary air shutter is the one that's more so in the center...the one closest to the right side (as you stand looking through the window) is for the under grate air...


----------



## Pflum

On mine the under grate air shudder is the one on the left if you are facing the rear of the furnace. I look at mine through the right side grate(right from rear). The primary shudder is closest. Secondary air intake in middle, no shudder on that just an open hole. Under grate air farthest away.


----------



## brenndatomu

Pflum said:


> the under grate air shudder is the one on the left if you are facing the rear of the furnace.


Yup...left if facing the rear, or on the right as you face the front.


----------



## Pflum

I did have a new one yesterday. Got home, house was 67. Thermostat was set for 69. Green light was on solid, which is supposed to mean heat available and call for heat, blower should be on. Blower was not on, shudders were closed, and there was still some nice coaling chunks of wood in there. I pressed the button to wake it up, but i don't know what that was about.


----------



## Rockstar1346

I’ll check when I get home later as I have the block off plate on the right and the left is connected to a line that runs outside.


----------



## Rockstar1346

Pflum said:


> I did have a new one yesterday. Got home, house was 67. Thermostat was set for 69. Green light was on solid, which is supposed to mean heat available and call for heat, blower should be on. Blower was not on, shudders were closed, and there was still some nice coaling chunks of wood in there. I pressed the button to wake it up, but i don't know what that was about.


I have had this happen a few times too almost as if the probe isn’t sensing enough heat it’s weird when it happens as you’ve mentioned there’s some real nice coals and chunks of wood but no blower on even though it’s lit up.


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> I have had this happen a few times too almost as if the probe isn’t sensing enough heat it’s weird when it happens as you’ve mentioned there’s some real nice coals and chunks of wood but no blower on even though it’s lit up.


It would seem that if the TC's are sensing enough heat to turn the light on, the shutters should be doing something...but the blower could be off even with the light on since it is controlled by the temp sensor in the plenum...


----------



## laynes69

Yes, theres a small flap of metal that needs to be adjusted where it hits the switch.


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> Yes, theres a small flap of metal that needs to be adjusted where it hits the switch.


So you are saying the limit switch isn't closing?


----------



## Rockstar1346

So this is a picture I got after taking off the side then hitting the button from dead cold. This is the right side if you are looking from the back. The only thing I really have to go off is the door is fully open because it’s almost touching that nut. But if I look at the one on the other side it only looks to be about half open as it’s not the whole way up like the door is on this right side.


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> So this is a picture I got after taking off the side then hitting the button from dead cold. This is the right side if you are looking from the back. The only thing I really have to go off is the door is fully open because it’s almost touching that nut. But if I look at the one on the other side it only looks to be about half open as it’s not the whole way up like the door is on this right side.
> 
> View attachment 292731


Sounds right...


----------



## brenndatomu

laynes69 said:


> Yes, theres a small flap of metal that needs to be adjusted where it hits the switch.
> 
> View attachment 292728





brenndatomu said:


> So you are saying the limit switch isn't closing?


If this is the case, it must need more than just a tiny tweak because that stepper motor was jackhammering on the stop pretty hard!


----------



## laynes69

brenndatomu said:


> So you are saying the limit switch isn't closing?


Correct. There's not much metal in contact with the switch and when it hammered, the metal tab had to be readjusted.


----------



## brenndatomu

Well that must have been it...I stuck a long 1/8" steel rod through the vent and poked the limit switch, it works now.
I will have to take the cover off and adjust it I guess...and that's a PITA due to a stove pipe tee in the road for getting the cover off...D'OH!
I wonder if there is an "official" adjustment procedure? Paging @SBI_Nick ...


----------



## SBI_Nick

brenndatomu said:


> Well that must have been it...I stuck a long 1/8" steel rod through the vent and poked the limit switch, it works now.
> I will have to take the cover off and adjust it I guess...and that's a PITA due to a stove pipe tee in the road for getting the cover off...D'OH!
> I wonder if there is an "official" adjustment procedure? Paging @SBI_Nick ...


Hi, the procedure adjustment is pretty basic.   I would recommend two things to check.  Firts thing to do is to make sure the set screw holding the damper to the stepper motor shaft is tight enough. Second, will be to adjust the zero.

1. Wait until the furnace is cold
2. Unplugged the furnace and remove the air intake cover
3. Check if the set screws are tight enough, if necessary tight them
4.  To perform the zeroing, turn the damper clockwise until you hear a little ''TIC'' from the limit swicth contact. 
5. Turn slowly counter clock wise until you hear the ''TIC'' again. At this moment both arrows should align: 




6. If not, slightly bend the stopper and repeat step 4 and 5 until arrows align properly.





Let me know if it solves the issue.

Thanks,

NicK


----------



## moresnow

bumping for a new guy heading here to find easily


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys how have you all been? Its been awhile since I was on here but if any remember i got a heat commander in early Jan.  But I wasn't able to get it installed due to other stuff. Anyhow  i'll get it done here over the summer, My question is around wood though what size wood do you guys prefer.  Do you use smaller air tight wood or a little bigger for furnace wood, most all my wood will be split as its quite big, should I shoot for split pieces that are equivalent 4-6 inch round meaning 6 inch straight across the butt or go a little bigger  with some up to 8- 9. I'll have a good mixture of 3 to 6 inch little round stuff, but the stuff  i'm splitting is big and just not sure what size to split it to as i don't know what these furnaces like for wood. most of my wood 80% this year is going to oak. 
Thanks for any info.


----------



## trx250r87

I would split 1/3 of your wood a  smaller diameter maybe 2"-3", another around 3"-5" diameter and the last 1/3 5"-8" diameter. Most modern stoves/furnaces like smaller diameter wood but I often throw larger diameter in for a slower or over night burn. 

I have a Kindling Cracker XL so sometimes I end up splitting larger pieces of I need them while I'm loading.  

I also make sure to have some wood around 16" in length to lay East/West while other 22" pieces will fit North/South. 

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> I would split 1/3 of your wood a  smaller diameter maybe 2"-3", another around 3"-5" diameter and the last 1/3 5"-8" diameter. Most modern stoves/furnaces like smaller diameter wood but I often throw larger diameter in for a slower or over night burn.
> 
> I have a Kindling Cracker XL so sometimes I end up splitting larger pieces of I need them while I'm loading.
> 
> I also make sure to have some wood around 16" in length to lay East/West while other 22" pieces will fit North/South.
> 
> Eric


Thank you very much, Thats kinda what I had in my  head to do,  thanks for the tip on laying it east/west I'll have a mixture 15 to 21" pieces. generally i buy 8 foot and cut and split, but I have a family member that in the tree business and he gave my about 5 cord its already cut and free lol I just have to split it, some of the oak is huge like 24" diameter, lots of splitting.

 any issues with finding a lot of oak burns to hot for these furnaces


----------



## trx250r87

No issues, I burn mostly red oak. 

Eric


----------



## woodey

NSGUY said:


> . most of my wood 80% this year is going to oak.


Keep in mind that oak generally takes a minimum of 2 years to be truly dry.


----------



## NSGUY

woodey said:


> Keep in mind that oak generally takes a minimum of 2 years to be truly dry.


Yeah I know thats the only issue I may have, thats why I'm going to get it split now, keep in the sun and out of the rain for the summer and see what it like, I'll have some maple and stuff to so I may have a couple of months dying in the basement as well


----------



## woodey

A  dead log washed up on my property this spring and I was able to score myself a little bit of free oak.


----------



## brenndatomu

woodey said:


> A  dead log washed up on my property this spring and I was able to score myself a little bit of free oak.
> 
> View attachment 295014


Better get that away from the water a lil more...the level comes up too much and we'll be calling you "no-woodey"!  Or maybe "easy come easy go woodey"


----------



## fields_mj

New to this forum so I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this or not.  I'll be happy to repost somewhere else if needed.  Copy and paste is easy   I'm considering replacing my current wood burner with a heat commander but I'd like to get some feedback from some more knowledgeable people to make sure that it will work for my application before I take the plunge.  I read through the first 4 or 5 pages of this thread, as well as the last 5 or 6 pages, and it seems like the Heat Commander is turning out to be a pretty good unit.  

I currently have a circa 1980 Energy Mate add-on wood furnace (wood furnace, NOT a wood stove).  Its pretty similar to a Clayton in design.  It has a forced air draft which has had the motor removed because it died.  The draft has an adjustable cover that blocks the opening.  Over the years, I've learned to  set the draft based on the expected outside temperature and I can normally keep it pretty close to 71 degrees all day long.  I'm heating a 2000 sq ft brick ranch with a full basement that was built in 1959.  I'm still in the process of replacing windows, so it's pretty drafty.  Temps get down around zero (F) in the winter, but they vary quite a bit.  On rare occasion, it might get down into the negative teens, or even -twenties, but that's rare.  Daytime highs vary a lot also.  Anywhere from single digits up into the 40s.   Typically, on a sunny day, I let the fire burn out if the temps are going to climb above 35 deg.  I might add a couple of small pieces that morning, but my aim is for the fire to go out before noon, or at least down to a small pile of coals.  

My current wood burner is in the basement.  It has a 10" duct that comes out of the top, turns 90 deg, and then runs about 5' horizontally over to the cold air return on my NG furnace.  It feeds in above the air filter.   I normally set the house thermostat at 68 deg so that if the wood burner cools off, the NG furnace will kick on and keep it from getting too chilly.  I fire it in the morning around 5:30 am, top off if needed around 7,  then I don't see it again until 6:30 or 7pm and there's normally a decent bed of coals left to work with.  On colder days, I have my son or daughter put 2 or 3 small rounds in around 4 PM.  Normally I'll put a medium size fire of smaller splits at 6 to get the house warmed back up quickly, and then add a few medium size splits/rounds in the 6" range a little later before finally topping it off for the night around 11pm.  I go through 3 to 4 cords of firewood per season.  I burn mostly seasoned hickory, but I also burn some red oak, and a mix of less hard wood like ash and walnut as the opportunities occur.  

So now for my questions   On a cold day, should I expect to be able to get 9 or 10 hrs of heat out of an HC?  From a cold start, how long does the HC normally take to get the heating system up to full temp?  How long of a burn will the HC provide on a warmer day?  How does the HC do on the warmer start/stop days where I'm only burning of an evening/night?  

Last question is how hard is the HC to get down a flight of stairs?  My guess is that with the fire brick out, it's still a pretty heavy unit and it may just be too dangerous to take down a flight of stairs.  I'm considering digging a pit and adding an external entrance to the basement where I currently bring my wood it, but that adds significantly to the cost of this project  

Thanks,
     Mark


----------



## trx250r87

Welcome fields_mj,

Your setup does not sound much different from mine other than you are in a slightly warmer climate further South than me. The biggest change you might have to make is swapping the 10" duct with the plenum that comes with the Heat Commander and adapting it into the main trunk of your furnace, paying attention to the static pressure in the system. I would suggest reading the manual for the HC 2-3 times and plan on following it to a "T"!

No issues with getting up to temperature or burn times. I don't think you will be disappointed!

I ended up moving my HC down basement stairs from my garage using a small appliance dolly and my ATV with a winch. I removed the loading, ash and heat exchanger doors and blower to reduce weight and size. The only issue I had was with the little loading green LED housing getting in the way when going through the doorway. I would recommend removing it right away.

Eric


----------



## JRHAWK9

fields_mj said:


> On a cold day, should I expect to be able to get 9 or 10 hrs of heat out of an HC?



Nobody will be able to answer this, as it all depends on your heat load.


----------



## brenndatomu

fields_mj said:


> On a cold day, should I expect to be able to get 9 or 10 hrs of heat out of an HC


Hard to say...how much wood are you burning on a cold day (in lbs) or how much do you burn in a winter?
From what you describe I'd say yes, but its really hard to say with certainty.
Might be that on a really cold day it'll go 8 hours, and on warmer days 12...one thing about it is that I guarantee there will be quite a learning curve after being used to that EM.


----------



## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> Hard to say...how much wood are you burning on a cold day (in lbs) or how much do you burn in a winter?
> From what you describe I'd say yes, but its really hard to say with certainty.
> Might be that on a really cold day it'll go 8 hours, and on warmer days 12...one thing about it is that I guarantee there will be quite a learning curve after being used to that EM.



I guess what I was getting at is if the heat load is such that the thermostat has a hard time being satisfied, it's going to burn through a  load faster compared to if the thermostat is more easily satisfied.  In this regard it's very heat load dependent and hard to say.


----------



## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> I guess what I was getting at is if the heat load is such that the thermostat has a hard time being satisfied, it's going to burn through a  load faster compared to if the thermostat is more easily satisfied.  In this regard it's very heat load dependent and hard to say.


I'm smellin what you steppin in now...and yes, very true...burn time on the HC seems to vary a lot, depending on if the 'stat is satisfied or not.


----------



## Rockstar1346

fields_mj said:


> New to this forum so I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this or not.  I'll be happy to repost somewhere else if needed.  Copy and paste is easy   I'm considering replacing my current wood burner with a heat commander but I'd like to get some feedback from some more knowledgeable people to make sure that it will work for my application before I take the plunge.  I read through the first 4 or 5 pages of this thread, as well as the last 5 or 6 pages, and it seems like the Heat Commander is turning out to be a pretty good unit.
> 
> I currently have a circa 1980 Energy Mate add-on wood furnace (wood furnace, NOT a wood stove).  Its pretty similar to a Clayton in design.  It has a forced air draft which has had the motor removed because it died.  The draft has an adjustable cover that blocks the opening.  Over the years, I've learned to  set the draft based on the expected outside temperature and I can normally keep it pretty close to 71 degrees all day long.  I'm heating a 2000 sq ft brick ranch with a full basement that was built in 1959.  I'm still in the process of replacing windows, so it's pretty drafty.  Temps get down around zero (F) in the winter, but they vary quite a bit.  On rare occasion, it might get down into the negative teens, or even -twenties, but that's rare.  Daytime highs vary a lot also.  Anywhere from single digits up into the 40s.   Typically, on a sunny day, I let the fire burn out if the temps are going to climb above 35 deg.  I might add a couple of small pieces that morning, but my aim is for the fire to go out before noon, or at least down to a small pile of coals.
> 
> My current wood burner is in the basement.  It has a 10" duct that comes out of the top, turns 90 deg, and then runs about 5' horizontally over to the cold air return on my NG furnace.  It feeds in above the air filter.   I normally set the house thermostat at 68 deg so that if the wood burner cools off, the NG furnace will kick on and keep it from getting too chilly.  I fire it in the morning around 5:30 am, top off if needed around 7,  then I don't see it again until 6:30 or 7pm and there's normally a decent bed of coals left to work with.  On colder days, I have my son or daughter put 2 or 3 small rounds in around 4 PM.  Normally I'll put a medium size fire of smaller splits at 6 to get the house warmed back up quickly, and then add a few medium size splits/rounds in the 6" range a little later before finally topping it off for the night around 11pm.  I go through 3 to 4 cords of firewood per season.  I burn mostly seasoned hickory, but I also burn some red oak, and a mix of less hard wood like ash and walnut as the opportunities occur.
> 
> So now for my questions   On a cold day, should I expect to be able to get 9 or 10 hrs of heat out of an HC?  From a cold start, how long does the HC normally take to get the heating system up to full temp?  How long of a burn will the HC provide on a warmer day?  How does the HC do on the warmer start/stop days where I'm only burning of an evening/night?
> 
> Last question is how hard is the HC to get down a flight of stairs?  My guess is that with the fire brick out, it's still a pretty heavy unit and it may just be too dangerous to take down a flight of stairs.  I'm considering digging a pit and adding an external entrance to the basement where I currently bring my wood it, but that adds significantly to the cost of this project
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark


Welcome! I moved my HC into my basement fully assembled but had it screwed to a sheet of plywood so it would glide over the stairs easy then I had about 3 people at the top of my stairs with straps hooked to it then myself and a good friend at the bottom guiding it and to be honest it was 10x easier than I thought it was going to be because the thing is pushing almost 1000lbs. To answer your other questions though it kinda depends on how warm you like it? The wife and I are warm blooded so we keep the stat set to 68 degrees constantly and easily you’ll get all day burns. You won’t be disappointed with it but like one of the other guys said it’s a very different beast with a learning curve. I’m in northeast coast of Canada so the coldest it got this winter was -43 and it had no problems but at that temp it never kicked off really either was burning through wood a little quicker than normal, but when I’m home it’s just habit I don’t stuff it full I kinda throw a couple sticks in and keep at it.


----------



## NSGUY

Rockstar1346 said:


> Welcome! I moved my HC into my basement fully assembled but had it screwed to a sheet of plywood so it would glide over the stairs easy then I had about 3 people at the top of my stairs with straps hooked to it then myself and a good friend at the bottom guiding it and to be honest it was 10x easier than I thought it was going to be because the thing is pushing almost 1000lbs. To answer your other questions though it kinda depends on how warm you like it? The wife and I are warm blooded so we keep the stat set to 68 degrees constantly and easily you’ll get all day burns. You won’t be disappointed with it but like one of the other guys said it’s a very different beast with a learning curve. I’m in northeast coast of Canada so the coldest it got this winter was -43 and it had no problems but at that temp it never kicked off really either was burning through wood a little quicker than normal, but when I’m home it’s just habit I don’t stuff it full I kinda throw a couple sticks in and keep at it.


Hey Rockstar how you been? yeah we had a lot of cold weather this year, I wish I was able to have got mine hooked up, I wanted to ask you how did do on wood this year with the HC did you burn as much as you did with your old furnace?


----------



## fields_mj

brenndatomu said:


> I'm smellin what you steppin in now...and yes, very true...burn time on the HC seems to vary a lot, depending on if the 'stat is satisfied or not.


Gotcha.  That's actually good news for me.  I was more worried that it would run harder than it needed to just to keep an efficient burn, and therefor consume more firewood on warmer days.  Sounds like I could turn my stat down a little and let the house cool off while we're gone, then bump it back up when we get home.   Doing that with my EM really isn't possible.  If it happens, is by chance because the fire has cooled of and is almost out completely.  Right now, if the house gets down to 69 deg, the furnace is down to a small bed of coals and needs tended to right away which is actually convieniant from the perspective of not having to restart it from scratch.  .  

I fully expect to start all over on my learning curve, but it will be worth if it I'm either going through less wood, not overheating the house (wife HATES it when it's over 73F), or allows me to use the furnace a little earlier/later in the season to further reduce my heating bill.  Ironically, if the highs are in the mid 40s, I'm spending a LOT more than if it's below zero all day.... 

Someone asked how much I currently burn.  I go through at least 3 cords of hickory per season.  I'd estimate around 15,000 lbs minimum.  Several years ago, we had a particularly cold year with lots of days below zero, and very few days above freezing.  If memory serves, I went through 6 cords that season which would have been a little over 25,000 lbs.  Average year is probably around 18,000 lbs.  

Another couple of questions.  If I strip it down to remove as much weight as possible (without going nuts with it), about how much weight is left to deal with?  I've moved more than 1 fire lined gun safe in my time.  If it's anywhere near 1,000 lbs, getting it into the basement is certainly going to involve digging a hole and doing some foundation work.  Not the end of the world, but definitely something that I would want to plan for in advance.... WAY in advance.  

The other question is:  Once you're down to a moderate bed of coals, and the unit starts to cool down, how long does that bed of coals last before the last ember is gone?  If I don't disturb mine, and depending on what I'm burning, I can come back after 24 hours and still have a small handful of embers left that can be raked up to get another fire going with some kindling.   If I still had the forced draft blower, I don't think that would be even close to possible.  Guessing that it's not possible with the HC either, but I'm curious how the unit behaves when the fire box starts to cool down and the house is still calling for heat.  

Thanks for all of the great information
      Mark


----------



## brenndatomu

fields_mj said:


> Another couple of questions. If I strip it down to remove as much weight as possible (without going nuts with it), about how much weight is left to deal with?


If you strip out the firebricks, blower assembly, ash pan and door, HX cleanout door, and firebox door, I'd say you are sub 400 lbs for sure...its only ~650 ish fully assembled. Its really pretty easy to move around.
You guys haven't seen anything until you move a Yukon multifuel furnace...900 lbs, and physically large too!

Oh, and as was mentioned above, take the reloading botton off the side before you even take it off the pallet. One screw and 3 wires to unplug, easy peasy.


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Hey Rockstar how you been? yeah we had a lot of cold weather this year, I wish I was able to have got mine hooked up, I wanted to ask you how did do on wood this year with the HC did you burn as much as you did with your old furnace?


Hey good good busy year, yeah I burnt about 3 1/4 cords almost as much as before with 4-5 cords of my old one but as you know winter here has been lasting forever.. we just got snow Friday actually and it’s almost may, oh well welcome to Canada. Also the wood I used this year was white birch which is hardwood but man it burns up like crazy no real coals mostly ash left. But overall way better experience I had a few weeks of working away from home and the wife loaded the furnace and got it going with 0 issues so that’s really the main thing and our heating bill never went over 150$! That’s 1/4.. so we’re very happy with it.


----------



## Rockstar1346

fields_mj said:


> Gotcha.  That's actually good news for me.  I was more worried that it would run harder than it needed to just to keep an efficient burn, and therefor consume more firewood on warmer days.  Sounds like I could turn my stat down a little and let the house cool off while we're gone, then bump it back up when we get home.   Doing that with my EM really isn't possible.  If it happens, is by chance because the fire has cooled of and is almost out completely.  Right now, if the house gets down to 69 deg, the furnace is down to a small bed of coals and needs tended to right away which is actually convieniant from the perspective of not having to restart it from scratch.  .
> 
> I fully expect to start all over on my learning curve, but it will be worth if it I'm either going through less wood, not overheating the house (wife HATES it when it's over 73F), or allows me to use the furnace a little earlier/later in the season to further reduce my heating bill.  Ironically, if the highs are in the mid 40s, I'm spending a LOT more than if it's below zero all day....
> 
> Someone asked how much I currently burn.  I go through at least 3 cords of hickory per season.  I'd estimate around 15,000 lbs minimum.  Several years ago, we had a particularly cold year with lots of days below zero, and very few days above freezing.  If memory serves, I went through 6 cords that season which would have been a little over 25,000 lbs.  Average year is probably around 18,000 lbs.
> 
> Another couple of questions.  If I strip it down to remove as much weight as possible (without going nuts with it), about how much weight is left to deal with?  I've moved more than 1 fire lined gun safe in my time.  If it's anywhere near 1,000 lbs, getting it into the basement is certainly going to involve digging a hole and doing some foundation work.  Not the end of the world, but definitely something that I would want to plan for in advance.... WAY in advance.
> 
> The other question is:  Once you're down to a moderate bed of coals, and the unit starts to cool down, how long does that bed of coals last before the last ember is gone?  If I don't disturb mine, and depending on what I'm burning, I can come back after 24 hours and still have a small handful of embers left that can be raked up to get another fire going with some kindling.   If I still had the forced draft blower, I don't think that would be even close to possible.  Guessing that it's not possible with the HC either, but I'm curious how the unit behaves when the fire box starts to cool down and the house is still calling for heat.
> 
> Thanks for all of the great information
> Mark


As mentioned if you strip it down you shouldn’t have much effort moving it really. I moved it completely assembled down a flight of stairs with a few people made easy work. Second it will hold embers for a very long time I burnt white birch which isn’t the greatest hardwood ever it burns up pretty quick and when stuffed full it will run all day long easy and have embers well into the night that can be used to start a fire. When it starts too cool off and the house calls for heat it cycles the blower for a bit to get as much heat out as it can then seems to shut the button off and the dampers. Overall though the heat is super even you set the T stat to your desired temp and walk away it does the rest for you. I could never do that before we had bedroom and bathroom about 75 then the rest of the house 68 this fixed it for us. Good luck with your search!


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys how you all been?  So I got my HC last Jan. but I'm just getting around to installing it now Long story lol, I see some of you have the HC set on cement block, I'm going to do the same, Question is did you run the cement block the full length of the furnace including the blow/cold air return  which I think should be done or did you just put the blocks under black furnace part. Thanks


----------



## brenndatomu

A block under each corner should be fine...the blower needs no support of its own


----------



## NSGUY

Also wondering did many of you use the Pro 1000 thermostat that came with the HC. Seems basic but should do the job. I Should just be able to replace it with the old one I had for my Newmac. A stupid question though where it will be direct wired to the HC do I still have to use the batteries in it ? I do have electrician coming though to make sure everything is right lol.


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Also wondering did many of you use the Pro 1000 thermostat that came with the HC. Seems basic but should do the job. I Should just be able to replace it with the old one I had for my Newmac. A stupid question though where it will be direct wired to the HC do I still have to use the batteries in it ? I do have electrician coming though to make sure everything is right lol.


Yes I use the thermostat that is included with the HC, it works great for me and batteries last a long time! I do not think you can run it without batteries.

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

Thanks guys, sorry for all the question but one more lol , I was planning on using stainless steel pipe from the furnace to the chimney but i can get any local. thats what was on my last furnace. it got hot but had no issues with it, its 20 years old and still perfect. My local option is just black steel  single wall or black steel double wall.  Has anyone used the black single wall ? and is that ok to use with these furnaces?  Thanks


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Has anyone used the black single wall ? and is that ok to use with these furnaces?


You can use it, but you will have to replace it every so many years...and doublewall drafts a lil better if you have a marginal chimney.
Black doublewall often has stainless for the inner pipe...this doesn't?
And you can't use the pipe you had before? (I can't remember what model burner you had before)


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> You can use it, but you will have to replace it every so many years...and doublewall drafts a lil better if you have a marginal chimney.
> Black doublewall often has stainless for the inner pipe...this doesn't?
> And you can't use the pipe you had before? (I can't remember what model burner you had before)


Honestly I never checked to see if the doublewall was SS inner pipe, I'll check, thats probably why its so pricey .  my selkirk chimney is 7 inch and about 20 feet long up through the house and past the peak, I'm thinking it should draft good. 
my old furnace WB100 has an 8 inch pipe coming out of it and as you know the HC has a 6, but my pipe for that was pretty much one piece and tapered from the 8 to 7 inch, plus my HC is just in a little different position so it probably would work anyhow.  
plus I want to add a barometric damper
​


----------



## sloeffle

NSGUY said:


> Honestly I never checked to see if the doublewall was SS inner pipe, I'll check, thats probably why its so pricey .  my selkirk chimney is 7 inch and about 20 feet long up through the house and past the peak, I'm thinking it should draft good.
> my old furnace WB100 has an 8 inch pipe coming out of it and as you know the HC has a 6, but my pipe for that was pretty much one piece and tapered from the 8 to 7 inch, plus my HC is just in a little different position so it probably would work anyhow.
> plus I want to add a barometric damper
> ​


If you have 7" insulated pipe you'll definitely need a baro. You actually might need two if you want to keep the furnace within spec.


----------



## NSGUY

sloeffle said:


> If you have 7" insulated pipe you'll definitely need a baro. You actually might need two if you want to keep the furnace within spec.


I actually talk to Drolet about that, they didn't seem very concerned, thought it would be fine, basically said to put a baro in as a precaution 
 so yeah I'm not sure, I guess i'll find out


----------



## sloeffle

Since it's not very tall that's probably why they are okay with it. I'd recommend a manometer to keep track of your draft also. I had a manometer and baro on my wood furnace and there would be days that I'd see the baro as far open as it could go and I'd still be over drafted. My chimney is a 6" chimney not much taller than yours.


----------



## NSGUY

sloeffle said:


> Since it's not very tall that's probably why they are okay with it. I'd recommend a manometer to keep track of your draft also. I had a manometer and baro on my wood furnace and there would be days that I'd see the baro as far open as it could go and I'd still be over drafted. My chimney is a 6" chimney not much taller than yours.


Yeah I've started looking into manometer and magnehelic gauges . I understand exactly what they do and stuff but never used or set them up  before . The magnehelic gauges look pretty straight forward to install setup but a little pricey at least up here. Not really sure how to use a manometer on a wood furnace how do you have your setup ?


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Not really sure how to use a manometer


Super simple...and a whole lot cheaper...there are many of the Dwyer manometers in use by members here.


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Super simple...and a whole lot cheaper...there are many of the Dwyer manometers in use by members here.


Would you recommend a Dwyer Mark II Model 25 manometer , I've been looking all day for one in Canada not easy to get,  found one for about $90  a  Dywer Magnahelic guage is about $120  is one better then the other?


----------



## NSGUY

__





						Dwyer 2000-0 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge, 2000: 0-0.5" WC from Cole-Parmer Canada
					

Buy Dwyer 2000-0 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge, 2000: 0-0.5" WC and more from our comprehensive selection of Dwyer Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauges



					www.coleparmer.ca
				








__





						Dwyer Inclined Manometer, 3" WC from Cole-Parmer Canada
					

Buy Dwyer MARK II 25 Inclined Manometer, 3" WC and more from our comprehensive selection of Dwyer Mark II Inclined Liquid Manometer



					www.coleparmer.ca
				




Is ether one of those what I'd need. Thanks


----------



## brenndatomu

I'm surprised that the 25 is that much, and the mag is that cheap.
Some claim the mag is "better"...I'm not sure how though...maybe more sensitive, but the model 25 is plenty adequate for chimney draft.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dwyer 2000-0 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge, 2000: 0-0.5" WC from Cole-Parmer Canada
> 
> 
> Buy Dwyer 2000-0 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge, 2000: 0-0.5" WC and more from our comprehensive selection of Dwyer Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauges
> 
> 
> 
> www.coleparmer.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dwyer Inclined Manometer, 3" WC from Cole-Parmer Canada
> 
> 
> Buy Dwyer MARK II 25 Inclined Manometer, 3" WC and more from our comprehensive selection of Dwyer Mark II Inclined Liquid Manometer
> 
> 
> 
> www.coleparmer.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is ether one of those what I'd need. Thanks


That mag is too high of a range IMO...

Can you do ebay, or amazon?








						DWYER  GLOBAL FINISHING MARK II MANOMETER DRAFT GAUGE TYPE 25   | eBay
					

COMPLETE WITH ALL COMPONENTS.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> I'm surprised that the 25 is that much, and the mag is that cheap.
> Some claim the mag is "better"...I'm not sure how though...maybe more sensitive, but the model 25 is plenty adequate for chimney draft.


I pretty sure I'll go with the  Mark II 25, If I under stand it right one of the rubber hoses needs to be connected to soft copper tube that will run to the chimney pipe, the other just hangs loose in the rooms atmosphere. 

Again thank you all for help


----------



## NSGUY

Dwyer 2002 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge Inches of Water Max. 15PSIG  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dwyer 2002 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge Inches of Water Max. 15PSIG at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.ca
				





I found this one cheap enough if ti works?

everything else is the same as the higher range one I posted


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I pretty sure I'll go with the  Mark II 25, If I under stand it right one of the rubber hoses needs to be connected to soft copper tube that will run to the chimney pipe, the other just hangs loose in the rooms atmosphere.
> 
> Again thank you all for help


That would work...or you could just use 1 hose...just leave the other port open to atmosphere. The 2 hoses will easily peel apart.


NSGUY said:


> Dwyer 2002 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge Inches of Water Max. 15PSIG  | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dwyer 2002 Magnehelic Differential Pressure Gauge Inches of Water Max. 15PSIG at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this one cheap enough if ti works?
> 
> everything else is the same as the higher range one I posted


Yeah, that should do the job too...


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> That would work...or you could just use 1 hose...just leave the other port open to atmosphere. The 2 hoses will easily peel apart.
> 
> Yeah, that should do the job too...


I just looked again at the ones posted on here and start at 0 .05 .10  so that is still really not the right one. i think I'll just go with mark II 25


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I just looked again at the ones posted on here and start at 0 .05 .10  so that is still really not the right one. i think I'll just go with mark II 25


Yeah I noticed that the range was a bit high, but it would work...a little less range would be more ideal though. 
But I can't disagree with using the 25...it does the job just fine.


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> I just looked again at the ones posted on here and start at 0 .05 .10  so that is still really not the right one. i think I'll just go with mark II 25


If you’re looking for the Dwyer mk2 nsguy go on Amazon it is on there for 50$ plus 7$shipping I just ordered one myself.  As for your other stuff I have the same chimney setup as you about 25 ft of stainless 7” Selkirk but in my basement coming off the stove it’s all 6” single wall. Last year I ran without a baro and a manometer this year I’m gunna run one and see how big the difference is.


----------



## NSGUY

Thanks Rockstar after some searching I found it, I think that is in Canadian dollars do you know for sure ? also  it makes note of imports duties fees but there shouldn't be any on that.
thanks for the heads up on it, i never seen that one on there.

yeah our setups are pretty close, I'm just going to run black 6" single wall to my selkirk as well. thanks for the info


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Thanks Rockstar after some searching I found it, I think that is in Canadian dollars do you know for sure ? also  it makes note of imports duties fees but there shouldn't be any on that.
> thanks for the heads on it, i never seen that one though.
> 
> yeah our setups are pretty close, I'm just going to run black 6" single wall to my selkirk as well. thanks for the info


Yupp it’s listed on Amazon.ca so it’s CAD if there is any import fees they will be minimal cause the item is so small.


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys I'm  back again lol, question about blower filters. I had a guy tonight look at my ductwork to get the hot and cold hooked up.  For the cold air return their is really 3 places to tie the cold air return into the blower, The left side which the manual shows, the right side, and it also says you can use the back of the blower.

The left looks to be the best to use as thats the blower opening 
The right side is the back of the blower which means air would have to flower around the blower
The back port  is basically the front of the blower

So for the existing  duckwork using the back port on the blower is the best place for us to tie the cold air into because of the way the ductwork is run.  My question is, is how efficient for air return is that port going to be.  Both the left side and right will have filters added, as will the back port where the cold air duct is connected.  but air will be drawn from the least resistant place first, So i'm thinking most air will be drawn in from the left filter side  anyhow making the cold return from the upstairs not very efficient or not having much air flow through the cold air duck.

wondering if you guys have any thoughts on that , or if any of you used the back port on the blower. Thanks


----------



## NSGUY

So I think I may have misunderstood the instructions. looking at the filter instructions which ever side I use for my cold air return duct the other 2 side gets sealed off with the metal panels provided.  Is that correct?


----------



## trx250r87

Obadiah's Woodstoves video of HC...


Not the most accurate info and sometimes contradicting what the manual says.


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> Not the most accurate info and sometimes contradicting


Boy, you're not kidding!


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys how you all doing?  well finally got the HC all hooked up and made my first fire tonight.  pretty small one with just some soft wood.  
So  I had everything hooked up thermostat , RTD and had it plugged in,  opened the door pushed the button and loaded paper and wood,  while I was doing this I could hear the motor running quite a few times,  I took my time so it could do it thing, then I lit the fire left the door open a bit until it got going good  and shut the door.  fire burnt along good I noticed the light on the door was off.  after about 7-8 minutes the blower kicked in,  the air coming out  didn't seem to be as warm was what I thought it should be.  then after that I noticed the light was flashing fast indicating fire box max temp. however I'm sure it was not at max temp. but it did close air control and die the fire down to pretty much nothing.  So i'd say there is a glitch there somewhere did I do something not in step? 
 my thermostat was saying 68 for house temp but I turned it up to 77 to make sure it would call for heat. the thermostat  is set to auto on the top setting and heat on the bottom, is that right? 

what do you all think?


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys how you all doing?  well finally got the HC all hooked up and made my first fire tonight.  pretty small one with just some soft wood.
> So  I had everything hooked up thermostat , RTD and had it plugged in,  opened the door pushed the button and loaded paper and wood,  while I was doing this I could hear the motor running quite a few times,  I took my time so it could do it thing, then I lit the fire left the door open a bit until it got going good  and shut the door.  fire burnt along good I noticed the light on the door was off.  after about 7-8 minutes the blower kicked in,  the air coming out  didn't seem to be as warm was what I thought it should be.  then after that I noticed the light was flashing fast indicating fire box max temp. however I'm sure it was not at max temp. but it did close air control and die the fire down to pretty much nothing.  So i'd say there is a glitch there somewhere did I do something not in step?
> my thermostat was saying 68 for house temp but I turned it up to 77 to make sure it would call for heat. the thermostat  is set to auto on the top setting and heat on the bottom, is that right?
> 
> what do you all think?


What's the build date on that unit?


----------



## NSGUY

Not sure where would I find that


----------



## brenndatomu

Uhh...I can't remember if its on the tag with the serial number...or maybe one of the tags on the crate...


----------



## NSGUY

there is sticker on the blower and back of the furnace it has a date on it of 09/11/21 but it doesn't specifically say build date


----------



## NSGUY

wondering should i unplug it and reset itself


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Hey guys how you all doing?  well finally got the HC all hooked up and made my first fire tonight.  pretty small one with just some soft wood.
> So  I had everything hooked up thermostat , RTD and had it plugged in,  opened the door pushed the button and loaded paper and wood,  while I was doing this I could hear the motor running quite a few times,  I took my time so it could do it thing, then I lit the fire left the door open a bit until it got going good  and shut the door.  fire burnt along good I noticed the light on the door was off.  after about 7-8 minutes the blower kicked in,  the air coming out  didn't seem to be as warm was what I thought it should be.  then after that I noticed the light was flashing fast indicating fire box max temp. however I'm sure it was not at max temp. but it did close air control and die the fire down to pretty much nothing.  So i'd say there is a glitch there somewhere did I do something not in step?
> my thermostat was saying 68 for house temp but I turned it up to 77 to make sure it would call for heat. the thermostat  is set to auto on the top setting and heat on the bottom, is that right?
> 
> what do you all think?


Did you remove any of the wiring to move the furnace into the house? If so, check to make sure everything is plugged in correctly. 

I also recall SBI mentioning at one point that there were 2 different temp proves that were used and they were very different from each other. If the wrong probe was installed I'm sure it would throw the settings way off.

Another thing to try is to unplug the AC power from the wall, wait a few minutes, plug it back in and wait a few more minutes, then hit the green load button. I think if the button is pressed too soon after plugging it in, it can act a little strange. 

I would call SBI tomorrow. They have fantastic tech support and I'm certain they will get things figured out. 

Good luck!

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> there is sticker on the blower and back of the furnace it has a date on it of 09/11/21 but it doesn't specifically say build date


Right lower corner of the decal? Pretty sure that's the build date.
Get in contact with SBI tomorrow...I heard rumors that some of them got out with the thermocouples wired backwards...makes 'em act real weird...I think they got that ironed out then, but that one is old enough that it may still have been affected.


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> Did you remove any of the wiring to move the furnace into the house? If so, check to make sure everything is plugged in correctly.
> 
> I also recall SBI mentioning at one point that there were 2 different temp proves that were used and they were very different from each other. If the wrong probe was installed I'm sure it would throw the settings way off.
> 
> Another thing to try is to unplug the AC power from the wall, wait a few minutes, plug it back in and wait a few more minutes, then hit the green load button. I think if the button is pressed too soon after plugging it in, it can act a little strange.
> 
> I would call SBI tomorrow. They have fantastic tech support and I'm certain they will get things figured out.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Eric


No I never removed any wiring at all or touched anything lol,  I had a red seal electrician  to make sure of my power supply,  the thermostat and RTD hook up is pretty basic 

I tried unplugging it waited about 5 minutes plugged it back in and after a couple second it goes to flashing light again 

Yeah I'll have to call SBI


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Right lower corner of the decal? Pretty sure that's the build date.
> Get in contact with SBI tomorrow...I heard rumors that some of them got out with the thermocouples wired backwards...makes 'em act real weird...I think they got that ironed out then, but that one is old enough that it may still have been affected.


ok that what I posted was the build date 09/11/21  serial number is 421


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> ok that what I posted was the build date 09/11/21  serial number is 421


My sister has #414, built just a few days earlier, IIRC.


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> My sister has #414, built just a few days earlier, IIRC.


Did she have any issues with hers? lol


----------



## brenndatomu

Uhh...maybe...


----------



## brenndatomu

What's the word @NSGUY ?


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> What's the word @NSGUY ?


I was on the phone with SBI first thing,, super nice guys can't ask for better people.  Honestly not sure, it could be something very simple or not, At this point i'd just be speculation on what I think. so I might as well make sure I know first and then I'll post. But I will say this  I have no worries about SBI getting the problem correct if there is one.   I can say the thermocouples were not  wired backwards or connected to the wrong port on the board


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> But I will say this I have no worries about SBI getting the problem correct if there is one


Agreed


----------



## sleewok

Figured I would post a little update today. I'm burning much dryer wood this season and I'm getting great burn times. In fact, I loaded up this morning at 8AM. It got quite warm outside today (60s) so I didn't need to do another load.  I just went to light it up at 10:30PM. I was shocked to find lumps of coal still burning. Enough to start a fire.  👍


----------



## NSGUY

So an update on my furnace, As I said earlier I spoke with SBI about what happened with the first run,  It was looking like it could have been one of the thermocouples or possibly the board but not likely. long story short after speaking with SBI I traced out both thermocouples  to make sure the top and bottom  was in the correct port on the board, In the process I found what seemed to be a loose connection on one of the ports on the board, after making it tight I tried the furnace with a small fire and it seemed to be fine, I made 2 more since and the furnace has run prefect to the best of my knowledge. so i believe that was the problem. and I am very impressed with the HC


----------



## sleewok

Good to know. Hopefully it is as simple as that! It could be worth checking the wires annually to make sure everything is tight. I'll be checking mine in a bit as I have had some odd behavior with my HC at times.


----------



## NSGUY

Question for you guys, in the front of your furnace down low on the bottom of the ash removal door,  when the blower is running and you put your hand there, can you easily feel a fairly large amount of air there.  I certainly do on mine and I think its feeding the fire, both drafts are closed on back of the furnace, but she is still getting air somewhere.  its burning really hot its no slow burn, its supposed to  be -14 c by morning so I put 5 pieces of wood in all about 3" dia. so not a lot,  but I don't trust it at all, looks like i'll be up watching it most of the night.  really starting not to like this furnace.


----------



## brenndatomu

IIRC someone posted about this issue before...I just don't recall if it was this thread, or another...


----------



## moresnow

How is the ash drawer secured/sealed? Ash removal plug or system askew/misaligned?


----------



## brenndatomu

moresnow said:


> How is the ash drawer secured/sealed? Ash removal plug or system askew/misaligned?


It has a grate, no ash plug...the ash drawer is in its own separate compartment, and it has a gasket on the front to seal it from room air.


----------



## moresnow

brenndatomu said:


> It has a grate, no ash plug...the ash drawer is in its own separate compartment, and it has a gasket on the front to seal it from room air.


Gotcha. So the trouble shooting recommendations recommend verifying that the ash pan seals correctly. Good idea no?


----------



## brenndatomu

moresnow said:


> Gotcha. So the trouble shooting recommendations recommend verifying that the ash pan seals correctly. Good idea no?


No doubt


----------



## NSGUY

moresnow said:


> How is the ash drawer secured/sealed? Ash removal plug or system askew/misaligned?


No everything there seems to be good and the door itself seems to be sealing well , Not the removable ash tray but the whole ash tray insert, if you look at that and the face plate on the front of the furnace there is a little gap between the too the whole way around. well underneath the ash door, kinda in behind the bottom edge of the ash door, there is a lot of air being forced out there, you can hold your hand at least 6" away from the bottom of that door and feel the air blowing. Infact the whole bottom front edge of the furnace, where the face plate meets the bottom there is a litte gap that runs the whole way across the front right on that bottom edge, you can also feel air coming out of that the whole way across. Question is, Is that normal with everyone else's furnace when the blower is running.


----------



## NSGUY

So here is a little more to last night, I made a fire specifically at about midnight because thats when the temp really started to drop and I wanted the house warm for morning. 

Started it with some kindling and added 5 or 6 pieces of wood on top of that, the fire box would have been a 3rd or a hair more full.  once it was lit good, I had the door closed and it was burning good,  before I left the basement I remember hearing the drafts close ( i assume ) and the blower was already running. I noticed right from the start when I got the furnace, when  make a fire it doesn't take long for the blower to kick in.  when I started the fire the house was 68 thermostat set at 74

By 1am I could smell the furnace, that hot smell. So I went down to look, and the fire was burning pretty hard . Honestly not sure if the drafts were open or closed,  just took some temps on and in the furnace and came back upstairs.  just did some reading to see if I could find out what the temps should be and stuff and went back down at about 1:20.  At this point I noticed the house was already up to temp , or close to it, I did check both drafts on the back of the furnace with a flashlight at that point and they were closed.  

I know by 130 the house was at temp and a I had a flashing green light however there was no change in how hard the fire was burning.  when I posted at 1.43 Like I say I had a flashing green light and the blower was cycling, a long cycle on for a longer period and off for a short period. the last time I went down was at 2.30 by this time there was noticeably a fair bit of wood burnt,  I took the poker and kind of arranged the wood and coals so it was over/covering the grate.   At this point the fire was starting slow down a bit.  and at this point I said frig it and went to bed, but I did notice the house was 76 

By 6am  when the wife got up it wasn't running or ran at all since then and the house was down to 71. 

Now you guys with more experience with the furnace then me will no,  Does this seem to be normal operation.  

To me this seems like a hot front end loaded burn , personally I'd like to see a more even heat over a longer period of time.


----------



## trx250r87

I don't recall if you mentioned what your draft was set at or how tall your glue is...

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

Here is what I noticed this morning,  shorty after 9 I went down , checked both drafts they were completely open, and there were just a couple coals in the fire box. 

So I pushed the green button as to make a fire, re checked the drafts. if facing the back of the furnace the draft on the right stayed completely opened  but the one on left was open just a small crack, it was pretty much closed.

So put some kindling in and 4 smaller pieces of wood, 2 soft 2 hardwood , once it was going good I waited to hear the drafts move. once they did I checked , the right side one went 3/4 shut and the left one closed.  fast forward to about 11am , had a nice little bed of coals, right side draft was completely opened left side closed. pushed green button as i was going to load a couple more pieces of wood , right side draft cycled closed then fully open  left side only opened a hair again.  should the left side draft be opening when I push the button ?  otherwise they seem to be working


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> I don't recall if you mentioned what your draft was set at or how tall your glue is...
> 
> Eric


I'm in the process of trying to get a proper gauge for in my stove pipe to make sure its in that .04 to .06 range, when i cleaned my chimney here a month ago I measured it, its 7in dia.  a total of 20 feet high


----------



## brenndatomu

I've heard of the dampers sticking open a bit before...but when that happens I think the computer has a fit and does not allow normal function after that, until things are reset.


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> I've heard of the dampers sticking open a bit before...but when that happens I think the computer has a fit and does not allow normal function after that, until things are reset.


In the Manual it says when relaoding
 it is necessary to press the reload button. When
you press the button, it will flash rapidly three times. Automatically the combustion air supply
will be increased to its maximum

so if its opening to maxium both drafts on the back should be opening full,  Mine is not, right side opens , left side only a hair.   So there might be a problem with the left side and maybe it wasn't 100% closed last night.  I don't know lol  but I think I got one that was built on a friday.


----------



## SBI_Nick

NSGUY said:


> In the Manual it says when relaoding
> it is necessary to press the reload button. When
> you press the button, it will flash rapidly three times. Automatically the combustion air supply
> will be increased to its maximum
> 
> so if its opening to maxium both drafts on the back should be opening full,  Mine is not, right side opens , left side only a hair.   So there might be a problem with the left side and maybe it wasn't 100% closed last night.  I don't know lol  but I think I got one that was built on a friday.


Hi,

First, you should press the button anytime you start or reload the furnace. Also, it is normal that when you press the button the right damper open fully and the left one partially (looking from the back).

As some mention, first thing to check is your chimney draft. It should be adjust when you have a good fire going and under maximum burning operation. Then you could check for air leak into the combustion chamber, for example if the door and ash drawer door are tight. You could also verify if the dampers are tight with the back plate.

Finally, it is normal to have some air leaks from the furnace jacket around the front.

Thanks,

Nick


----------



## sloeffle

NSGUY said:


> I'm in the process of trying to get a proper gauge for in my stove pipe to make sure its in that .04 to .06 range, when i cleaned my chimney here a month ago I measured it, its 7in dia.  a total of 20 feet high


My pipe is 6” x 20 or 24 feet and I’d regularly see my baro wide open and my draft higher than .06 on a windy day. A 7” pipe is going to draft significantly more than a 6” pipe too.

You have to measure the draft when you have a fire going. The measurement needs to be taken between the furnace and the baro.

IMHO - you are over drafting the furnace and the computer can’t compensate for it. If you don’t have a baro on your stove pipe I’d get one on there ASAP and then report your findings back.


----------



## NSGUY

SBI_Nick said:


> Hi,
> 
> First, you should press the button anytime you start or reload the furnace. Also, it is normal that when you press the button the right damper open fully and the left one partially (looking from the back).
> 
> As some mention, first thing to check is your chimney draft. It should be adjust when you have a good fire going and under maximum burning operation. Then you could check for air leak into the combustion chamber, for example if the door and ash drawer door are tight. You could also verify if the dampers are tight with the back plate.
> 
> Finally, it is normal to have some air leaks from the furnace jacket around the front.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nick


Hi Nick,   Thanks for your reply

The furnace seems to have issues with being wide open or nothing , not a a lot of middle ground,  when it runs , it runs hot with  heavy flame and it doesn't seem to start to die down until the wood gets burnt up, last night was the worse case of this , it doesn't  act like its pulling  the fire up the chimney if you know what i mean,   and on the other end when its down to its last little bit where you still have a couple small wood chunks it will smoulder, I can smell it in the basement.  but more so over the last week I noticed the light flashing improperly at different times.

Today I unplugged it ,  when I plugged it back in it started doing the very same thing as when I first got it and plugged it ,  I have a fast flashing green light,  the  left dampener opens up 1/4 the right side full after about 2 minutes they both close after about the same time they open to the same places, and keeps cycling that way . its unplugged right now  to see if it will reset itself to normal
Thanks


----------



## NSGUY

sloeffle said:


> My pipe is 6” x 20 or 24 feet and I’d regularly see my baro wide open and my draft higher than .06 on a windy day. A 7” pipe is going to draft significantly more than a 6” pipe too.
> 
> You have to measure the draft when you have a fire going. The measurement needs to be taken between the furnace and the baro.
> 
> IMHO - you are over drafting the furnace and the computer can’t compensate for it. If you don’t have a baro on your stove pipe I’d get one on there ASAP and then report your findings back.


Yes you could be right, I can't say for sure yet until I get a meter hooked up,  I will say though its doesn't act like its over drafting., and last night there was no wind .  Its got a little glitch in its giddy  up somewheres lol, but I'l get it figured out


----------



## sleewok

NSGUY said:


> Question for you guys, in the front of your furnace down low on the bottom of the ash removal door,  when the blower is running and you put your hand there, can you easily feel a fairly large amount of air there.  I certainly do on mine and I think its feeding the fire, both drafts are closed on back of the furnace, but she is still getting air somewhere.  its burning really hot its no slow burn, its supposed to  be -14 c by morning so I put 5 pieces of wood in all about 3" dia. so not a lot,  but I don't trust it at all, looks like i'll be up watching it most of the night.  really starting not to like this furnace.


I feel like I have a similar situation. When idling my  lower will kick in every minute. My draft has been calibrated to 0.6. I just dropped it to 0.45 for tonight. My question is, when the heat is called for, should there be a change in the dampers? Afaik once the fire is going full my dampers never change until I hit coals and the plenum has cooled. Is that the way it should operate?


----------



## brenndatomu

For you guys that have been using your HC's for a while now, have you ever cleaned your thermocouples?
The maintenance schedule says to do it after every cord or so...between the upper and lower TC's and the RTD probe in the plenum, that's the only info the computer has to make decisions about what to do and when.
The manual says they (TC's) just need a light cleaning with a brush...upper one accessed by sliding the baffle boards forward...flyash is a pretty good insulator...I can easily see how being dirty could throw things off.


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> So here is a little more to last night, I made a fire specifically at about midnight because thats when the temp really started to drop and I wanted the house warm for morning.
> 
> Started it with some kindling and added 5 or 6 pieces of wood on top of that, the fire box would have been a 3rd or a hair more full.  once it was lit good, I had the door closed and it was burning good,  before I left the basement I remember hearing the drafts close ( i assume ) and the blower was already running. I noticed right from the start when I got the furnace, when  make a fire it doesn't take long for the blower to kick in.  when I started the fire the house was 68 thermostat set at 74
> 
> By 1am I could smell the furnace, that hot smell. So I went down to look, and the fire was burning pretty hard . Honestly not sure if the drafts were open or closed,  just took some temps on and in the furnace and came back upstairs.  just did some reading to see if I could find out what the temps should be and stuff and went back down at about 1:20.  At this point I noticed the house was already up to temp , or close to it, I did check both drafts on the back of the furnace with a flashlight at that point and they were closed.
> 
> I know by 130 the house was at temp and a I had a flashing green light however there was no change in how hard the fire was burning.  when I posted at 1.43 Like I say I had a flashing green light and the blower was cycling, a long cycle on for a longer period and off for a short period. the last time I went down was at 2.30 by this time there was noticeably a fair bit of wood burnt,  I took the poker and kind of arranged the wood and coals so it was over/covering the grate.   At this point the fire was starting slow down a bit.  and at this point I said frig it and went to bed, but I did notice the house was 76
> 
> By 6am  when the wife got up it wasn't running or ran at all since then and the house was down to 71.
> 
> Now you guys with more experience with the furnace then me will no,  Does this seem to be normal operation.
> 
> To me this seems like a hot front end loaded burn , personally I'd like to see a more even heat over a longer period of time.


Until you said I would have never noticed as my unit I have sitting directly on the floor, but yes when the blower is on there is a considerable amount of air being pushed under the unit. The one thing I’ve noticed is the unit doesn’t really care for smaller loads like that even though it’s hard not to because it’s mild so far I find it full tilt all the time as you say as well. However this year I hooked up a baro and got a manometer and dialed the draft to 0.5 and I can tell you it made a big difference from last year I get noticeably 
longer burn times and when the stat is satisfied now the flame almost looks like it dies out but it’s still going. 0.4-0.5 is the sweet spot. I think once you get that set up and running you’ll notice a difference.


----------



## NSGUY

Thank you Rockstar, I do believe that the draft could be some of my issue or maybe all , hopefully by the first of the week  i'll have a manometer hooked up.  and from what I'm told that air that is coming out there is not an issue.  I first thought it maybe getting into the fire box but I don't think it is at all.  thanks for the info though appreciate it


----------



## Rockstar1346

NSGUY said:


> Thank you Rockstar, I do believe that the draft could be some of my issue or maybe all , hopefully by the first of the week  i'll have a manometer hooked up.  and from what I'm told that air that is coming out there is not an issue.  I first thought it maybe getting into the fire box but I don't think it is at all.  thanks for the info though appreciate it


For sure friend keep us all updated. I think you’re functioning alright but for some reason 1/3 full these stoves just don’t like it as much. I’ve yet to try a full load this season because it’s been so mild. I mean next week Thursday it’s gunna be 12 and rain..


----------



## trx250r87

If you're annoyed by the air leakage at the front of the Heat Commander get yourself some high temp black silicone and seal those leaks up. I did this to mine right after I installed it, thanks to advice from FixedGearFlyer.

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

Rockstar1346 said:


> I mean next week Thursday it’s gunna be 12 and rain..


12* and rain?! You must be in Canada...12*F there ain't gonna be no rain!


----------



## brenndatomu

trx250r87 said:


> If you're annoyed by the air leakage at the front of the Heat Commander get yourself some high temp black silicone and seal those leaks up. I did this to mine right after I installed it, thanks to advice from FixedGearFlyer.
> 
> Eric


Wouldn't have to be HT silicone...it doesn't get that hot around the ash drawer, and HT silicone is only rated for a few more degrees than regular (50-100* more...unless buying some exotic grade stuff, then that might buy you another 50*) so even regular clear silicone caulk would work too.


----------



## NSGUY

Rockstar1346 said:


> For sure friend keep us all updated. I think you’re functioning alright but for some reason 1/3 full these stoves just don’t like it as much. I’ve yet to try a full load this season because it’s been so mild. I mean next week Thursday it’s gunna be 12 and rain..


yeah i'm thinking that with running the 1/3 loads or less and the furnace trying to get itself up to temp is whats happening coupled with not having a Manometer hooked up and knowing for sure whats going on there.  but at least now I know why the furnace is doing what it is doing with  a 1/3 load.


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> If you're annoyed by the air leakage at the front of the Heat Commander get yourself some high temp black silicone and seal those leaks up. I did this to mine right after I installed it, thanks to advice from FixedGearFlyer.
> 
> Eric


To me that air leak doesn't make any difference, I'm not going to worry about it at all


----------



## trx250r87

Might


NSGUY said:


> To me that air leak doesn't make any difference, I'm not going to worry about it at all


 Not make a difference but sometimes makes a mess of any ash on the lip or floor in front of the furnace. 

The black silicone blends in well. 

Eric


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> For you guys that have been using your HC's for a while now, have you ever cleaned your thermocouples?
> The maintenance schedule says to do it after every cord or so...between the upper and lower TC's and the RTD probe in the plenum, that's the only info the computer has to make decisions about what to do and when.
> The manual says they (TC's) just need a light cleaning with a brush...upper one accessed by sliding the baffle boards forward...flyash is a pretty good insulator...I can easily see how being dirty could throw things off.
> View attachment 303754


I wasn't aware of the thermocouple above the baffles! I stacked the baffles and slid them forward. Look what I found. Brushed it off and I'm curious to see what impact it has.


----------



## trx250r87

I'm on my 3rd season with my HC and my thermocouples look about the same as yours. I was not experiencing anything abnormal but figured I would give them a quick inspection.
I knocked off the fine ash powder with a plastic brush and they look as good as new. 

Eric


----------



## sleewok

Question: would a fresh air intake impact the rate of burn? 

I was checking the dampers and took off the panel blocking the air intake on the opposite side of my outside air connection. I noticed a cool breeze blowing. This got me thinking. If the box with the dampers is closed off with only fresh air intake, would the pressure of the air force more air into the chamber and cause it to burn hotter/faster? That seems to make sense to me. I am going to leave the cap off to see the impact. If I notice one I'll probably put a damper on my air intake.


----------



## sleewok

Could some of you check your dampers to see how tight they are against the back of the box? I think I may have found another issue with mine. The damper on the left (when standing in front) is about 1/4" offset from the box. That means there is always a large gap, regardless of how closed it is. The damper on the opposite side is much tighter to the box. I'm going to give Droplet a call tomorrow to find out what the gap should be.


----------



## trx250r87

They both should be tight. Check to see if the set screw has backed out. 

Eric


----------



## brenndatomu

There should be no gap....against but not rubbing


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> There should be no gap....against but not rubbing


2 screw for each damper we're sitting under the dampers when I opened it up. One screw is missing. The dampers are very loose. It is pretty frustrating to find this the case. Now I have to completely remove the damper assembly to get those screws in.

 But also glad that I have likely found the cause of my high burns.





After further inspection it appears that I have a defective damper. The screw slot? for the bolt on the left damper overlaps the opening. This blocks the damper and never allows it to fully close. That means the damper is always 1/2" open, even when fully closed... Seriously!?


----------



## sleewok

*Update:*
I spoke with Martin over at SBI today and they have me setup for a damper assembly replacement. The placement of the standoffs should be the same on both dampers and my primary is clearly offset from the intended location.

Since that conversation I ground down the standoff so that the primary damper can close down to about 1/4 in gap (vs 1/2 before). 
I remounted the steppers and then checked that the dampers are flush to the box. All good.
Fired it up.

The difference is HUGE. It is operating the way I would have expected. When there is no call for it the only flame I see is secondary burn. The blower turns on significantly less as well. I'm so glad I figured this out. I'll post back how it does with an overnight burn after these fixes.

PSA: Those of you that have been having your blower constantly turning on during idle you NEED to check your dampers and make sure that they are operating correctly. Hopefully no one else has to face this issue, but at least the potential for it is known.

*A couple other things that I learned about the operation of the HC.

Plenum Pressure*
The manual states to get the plenum pressure to 0.2. The actual range is 0.2 - 0.5. IF your pressure is below 0.2 then the thermocouple in the plenum will have a tougher time accurately reading the temperature

*Plenum Temps
The blower is triggered by the plenum temperature. *Their are two separate temperatures that will trigger the blower.
1) When calling for heat the blower will turn on when the plenum is @130F
2) When no call for heat, it will turn on the blower when the plenum is @190F

Cheers,

Lee


----------



## trx250r87

A little Loc Tite wouldn't hurt on those threads so they do not come loose again.


----------



## sleewok

Update: after my fixes I would guess that I'm using about half the wood I used previously. The temperature is more consistent. Previously it would reach 5+ over my set point. Now I can throw a few logs on the coals and it will continue to hold my house temp for a few more hours. Previously I would have to do full loads each time. Now I just need to get automated zoning for my dampers!


----------



## sleewok

I received the replacement damper assembly. It is slightly different from my original. There is a plastic piece on the damper that I assume is to reduce friction. 

The standoff for the "P" damper is still positioned inside the cutout. I reached out to SBI again to verify if this is the actual position as engineered. I'm waiting to hear back.

Would someone be willing to open up their HC and check the position of that standoff?


----------



## 3650

Wow seems like burning wood shouldn’t have to be this complex.


----------



## brenndatomu

3650 said:


> Wow seems like burning wood shouldn’t have to be this complex.


It actually does... EPA said so...


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> I received the replacement damper assembly. It is slightly different from my original. There is a plastic piece on the damper that I assume is to reduce friction.
> 
> The standoff for the "P" damper is still positioned inside the cutout. I reached out to SBI again to verify if this is the actual position as engineered. I'm waiting to hear back.
> 
> Would someone be willing to open up their HC and check the position of that standoff?
> 
> View attachment 305585
> View attachment 305586
> View attachment 305587


Looks like SBI updated the material of the dampers! Mine are just made of steel and they chatter when opened/closed. 

I have the back of my HC removed so I can snap a pic of mine but I not sure what standoff you are talking about. 


Eric


----------



## sleewok

trx250r87 said:


> Looks like SBI updated the material of the dampers! Mine are just made of steel and they chatter when opened/closed.
> 
> I have the back of my HC removed so I can snap a pic of mine but I not sure what standoff you are talking about.
> 
> 
> Eric


 If you take a photo at an angle like my 3rd photo  showing the "P" damper then it should be visible. In my photo it is one of the metal posts that the motor plate is mounted to (the one right above the limit switch).


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> If you take a photo at an angle like my 3rd photo  showing the "P" damper then it should be visible. In my photo it is one of the metal posts that the motor plate is mounted to (the one right above the limit switch).


Does this help?


----------



## sleewok

trx250r87 said:


> Does this help?
> 
> View attachment 305631


Need the shot lower so that we can see the cutout in relation to that lower mount in your photo. In my damper assembly that lower mount is overlapping the cutout so the damper can never full close. This might be by design, but I am not sure. Can you try a photo with the dampers fully closed (pull the plug). Thanks for sending this regardless!


----------



## trx250r87

sleewok said:


> Need the shot lower so that we can see the cutout in relation to that lower mount in your photo. In my damper assembly that lower mount is overlapping the cutout so the damper can never full close. This might be by design, but I am not sure. Can you try a photo with the dampers fully closed (pull the plug). Thanks for sending this regardless!


----------



## sleewok

trx250r87 said:


> View attachment 305691


it looks like yours is mounted in the same position, slightly overlapping the opening. this might really be by design. It seems like an odd decision to me since there is no way for the dampers to full close in an emergency. I'm sure SBI has a good reason for it though. Perhaps something to do with gas leaking into the home if it is fully shut with a fire still going. Just a guess...


----------



## brenndatomu

sleewok said:


> Would someone be willing to open up their HC and check the position of that standoff?


I got a look at my sisters and it has a gap like that too...


----------



## Gbawol42

Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander.  I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit.  The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.

So did you guys hook up an outside air kit?  I am just debating if it's worth it or not.  Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander.  I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit.  The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.
> 
> So did you guys hook up an outside air kit?  I am just debating if it's worth it or not.  Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.


Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.


----------



## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
> I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
> I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.


Yeah, long story short, it's a money thing.

I'm still leary of hooking my baro to outside air.  I would have to burn the furnace for a little and see how clean the combustion is first.

I always just figure the more outside air I pull the less that my heated air is being used for combustion.  Like I said it is literally 50/50 on the internet for using them, it's kinda crazy.


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> I'm still leary of hooking my baro to outside air.


The makeup air temp doesn't matter...flue temp will always be the same. The baro just opens up less when its hooked to a cold air source.
Just as with a mixing valve for hot water, if the cold water is 75*, it will take more of it to temper the hot water, but if it is say 50*, it will take less of it to make the same temp finished product.
I have spent years running both ways, and I see no difference in how dirty the flue is (or isn't)



> Yeah, long story short, it's a money thing.


I get it...


----------



## laynes69

I hooked up my cold air return on my Caddy Advanced and ended up removing it. Didn't work out for me!


----------



## NSGUY

Hey guys interesting subject, I was just looking into putting OAK on my HC,  

So first off I added a manometer and baro to my HC and I have it running much better.  But I know my house is quite air tight,  and if any exhaust fan or anything is running there is no extra air.  probably negitive  because even when I run the range hood exhaust I need to crack a window. when starting a fire I have to open a basement door, even when reloading I usually do.   I have been noticing a fair bit of soot build up in my heating tubes, I cleaned all out today and had what I think is a fair bit. So I think my combustion could be better.

I think running a OAK really boils down to if you need one or not. I think I do

so is there a actual kit you guys buy or just make up your own, any reason why I couldn't just run dryer vent for it?  

Also what would the negatives of running one that Im not thinking of?


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> Also what would the negatives of running one that Im not thinking of?


The OAK pipe (hose) can run pretty cold when its frigid out...but the only real negative that I know of is that with any basement OAK install (that is below ground level, and the OAK source is above the stove/furnace) is that if you have a reverse draft get started the OAK pipe can actually act as a chimney...so the OAK pipe needs to be pretty well sealed up, and metal (or at least not plastic, or combustible anyways)


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> The OAK pipe (hose) can run pretty cold when its frigid out...but the only real negative that I know of is that with any basement OAK install (that is below ground level, and the OAK source is above the stove/furnace) is that if you have a reverse draft get started the OAK pipe can actually act as a chimney...so the OAK pipe needs to be pretty well sealed up, and metal (or at least not plastic, or combustible anyways)


well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be.  my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is.  Well that sucks lol ,  I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be.  my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is.  Well that sucks lol ,  I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work


Do you deal with downdraft issues at all?
I almost never do, so I just used metal pipe and screwed the joints...it works fine.
Plus I think the whole backdraft/ OAK acting as a chimney issue is of more concern with a source of outdoor air (from a higher point than the stove/furnace) that is not direct connected to the stove.


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> Do you deal with downdraft issues at all?
> I almost never do, so I just used metal pipe and screwed the joints...it works fine.
> Plus I think the whole backdraft/ OAK acting as a chimney issue is of more concern with a source of outdoor air (from a higher point than the stove/furnace) that is not direct connected to the stove.


Yeah I never had an issue where the smoke wants to come down the chimney as opposed to going  up it.  

My issues are on starting a fire, if the basement door is not open I will get smoke leakage out of the furnace, that initial smoke doesn't like going up the chimney,  So A.. if I forget to open the door and start a fire I will get some leakage, the second I open the door smoke is gone and flowing good up the chimney, B.. if i open the door before starting a fire there is never an issue, as soon as the fire is going I can shut the door and not have an issue .

The second issue I have is when the fire is at an end or at its last little bit it will kinda smoulder a long , like it just doesn't have enough air,  its kind of a heavier smoke that will lay over the house, you can't see it, but depending on the wind, if any and  direction, if I open a window or something i can get the smell of it coming in the house,  it happens a little more often when its at freezing or a little above as opposed to when its colder. 

So i never have an issue with smoke once a fire is going and there is flame, only on start up if the door is not open  or at the end when that last little will sometimes smoulder, the odd time i will get the smell of smouldering smoke in the house, I either need to crack a window if its not coming in the window as well or just open the basement door for a few minutes that clears it right up.

since I put the baro in , that seems to be working great , I never seen or got any smoke out of that that I no of, not even at the end of a fire when it will smoulder sometimes. the only thing i noticed is if I never had a fire all day or something and i go down to the basement if i go right over to where the baro is installed on the pipe I will get a little sooty smell right there, but its not within the basement its just right at the baro so thats probably somewhat normal.


----------



## sloeffle

Gbawol42 said:


> Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander.  I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit.  The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.
> 
> So did you guys hook up an outside air kit?  I am just debating if it's worth it or not.  Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.


If your house was built recently then I'd install a OAK, if it's and older house that's leaky then I wouldn't. My furnace was in a basement that had a egress door and it was leaky enough that I didn't have to install OAK even though the rim joists etc were spray foamed.

Did you have smoke issues with your Heatmax ? If you didn't have them with your Heatmax then I doubt you'll have them with your HC.


----------



## Gbawol42

sloeffle said:


> If your house was built recently then I'd install a OAK, if it's and older house that's leaky then I wouldn't. My furnace was in a basement that had a egress door and it was leaky enough that I didn't have to install OAK even though the rim joists etc were spray foamed.
> 
> Did you have smoke issues with your Heatmax ? If you didn't have them with your Heatmax then I doubt you'll have them with your HC.


No I didn't have any smoke issues.  

The main issue I have is the basement is to warm.  I thought this would help, the less the stove is taking in basement air the less that need to come down from my main floor to replace it, hopefully that made sense.


----------



## sleewok

brenndatomu said:


> Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
> I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
> I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.





NSGUY said:


> well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be.  my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is.  Well that sucks lol ,  I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work


My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor. 

I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.


----------



## sleewok

sleewok said:


> My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor.
> 
> I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.


The other thing to consider is with a tight house you are going to pull gas from your furnace at the end of the burn (especially if running range or bathroom vent). The draft is simply too low at this point and the other vents will win. We had our CO alarms going off at the end of burns the first week until I installed our OAK.


----------



## salecker

Up North what we do is use flex ducting and put a loop in it so the cold air gets trapped unless your stove is running, or furnace. there is also a cold air trap you can put on the end of the ducting.


----------



## NSGUY

sleewok said:


> My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor.
> 
> I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.


Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity,  its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to  keep that nice and dry besides the basement.   I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK  in,  I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always  having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.    

Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer, 

Thanks for the info everyone


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity,  its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to  keep that nice and dry besides the basement.   I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK  in,  I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always  having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.
> 
> Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,
> 
> Thanks for the info everyone


How about an ERV or HRV? I installed a Panasonic ERV that pulls fresh air into the house and exhausts stale air outside. I can select 50-100 cfm for both intake and exhaust, which allows me to slightly pressurize the house and make up for exhaust fans, dryer, and chimney flues. 

ERIC


----------



## NSGUY

trx250r87 said:


> How about an ERV or HRV? I installed a Panasonic ERV that pulls fresh air into the house and exhausts stale air outside. I can select 50-100 cfm for both intake and exhaust, which allows me to slightly pressurize the house and make up for exhaust fans, dryer, and chimney flues.
> 
> ERIC


Well there is a great idea, I never knew of those. I will definitely look into those a bit.  From what i just seen it looks like the  Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house system  that can regulate incoming and out going CFM , The ERV FV - 04VE1 looks to be the one for a single room like a basement, but from what I see I don't think you can adjust the incoming and outgoing CFM .

What model do you have? 

Here was my issue with the whole house air exchanger,  it was ok in the summer time, but if your running AC it was taking the cold air out and dumping in warmer/hot humid air,  in the winter the opposite, took the warm air out and brought in the cold, also in the winter the issue I had was with the wood furnace, it would bring smoke into the house depending on wind etc.  so that unit has been unhooked for quite a few years,  I went to the humidity fan in the basement and stuff and that has always worked great, I'm sure my house leaks some, and just with windows open/ doors opening etc  I  always had plenty air exchange. it wasn't a big issue with my newmac but with this furnace the way the drafts works I think it needs a little more neutral too positive air pressure.  The air exchanger I have unhooked though I couldn't change the air flow though It was equal in to equal out I believe. 

The  Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house unit I believe but don't see why I couldn't run it just in my basement i could set it for a little positive pressure,  I'd be worried about it having the same issue with it bring in smoke though it, but on the other hand if my furnace has the air it needs and is burning cleaner i may not have a smoke issue. 

How does yours balance the incoming and outgoing air temp, does it equalize them pretty good? I would think the newer units are better then my older one. 

Thanks for the info about the  Panasonic ERV.  




​


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Well there is a great idea, I never knew of those. I will definitely look into those a bit.  From what i just seen it looks like the  Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house system  that can regulate incoming and out going CFM , The ERV FV - 04VE1 looks to be the one for a single room like a basement, but from what I see I don't think you can adjust the incoming and outgoing CFM .
> 
> What model do you have?
> 
> Here was my issue with the whole house air exchanger,  it was ok in the summer time, but if your running AC it was taking the cold air out and dumping in warmer/hot humid air,  in the winter the opposite, took the warm air out and brought in the cold, also in the winter the issue I had was with the wood furnace, it would bring smoke into the house depending on wind etc.  so that unit has been unhooked for quite a few years,  I went to the humidity fan in the basement and stuff and that has always worked great, I'm sure my house leaks some, and just with windows open/ doors opening etc  I  always had plenty air exchange. it wasn't a big issue with my newmac but with this furnace the way the drafts works I think it needs a little more neutral too positive air pressure.  The air exchanger I have unhooked though I couldn't change the air flow though It was equal in to equal out I believe.
> 
> The  Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house unit I believe but don't see why I couldn't run it just in my basement i could set it for a little positive pressure,  I'd be worried about it having the same issue with it bring in smoke though it, but on the other hand if my furnace has the air it needs and is burning cleaner i may not have a smoke issue.
> 
> How does yours balance the incoming and outgoing air temp, does it equalize them pretty good? I would think the newer units are better then my older one.
> 
> Thanks for the info about the  Panasonic ERV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


I have had the Panasonic Intelli-Ballance 100 for about 4-5 years and I run it on 60-70cfm in and 50cfm exhaust. You can also set how many minutes per hour you want it to run. I usually do anywhere from 40-60 per hour. 


The efficiency of the unit depends on what speed you have it set at but I have measured intake vs exhaust temps with IR gun and it's pretty impressive at lower speeds. I think there is a cold weather version that is suppose to function better at below freezing temps but is a little less efficient as far as I remember. 

Eric


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## sleewok

NSGUY said:


> Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity,  its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to  keep that nice and dry besides the basement.   I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK  in,  I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always  having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.
> 
> Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,
> 
> Thanks for the info everyone


Installing the OAK solved my issue with carbon monoxide immediately. With the vent in my basement I have a constant supply of air pulling even when the furnace is not running. It sort of acts like a make-up air supply for my ventilation.  ... Anyways, I haven't had a single issue at the end of my burns since installing it. I still get smoke when starting a fire, but that's partly because my wood is not always fully seasoned.


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## NSGUY

sleewok said:


> Installing the OAK solved my issue with carbon monoxide immediately. With the vent in my basement I have a constant supply of air pulling even when the furnace is not running. It sort of acts like a make-up air supply for my ventilation.  ... Anyways, I haven't had a single issue at the end of my burns since installing it. I still get smoke when starting a fire, but that's partly because my wood is not always fully seasoned.


Thanks sleevwok 
my issue is very similar to yours, the more I look at it I think my immediate fix and cheapest  is to run a OAK.  Is yours just a straight run from the outside and dropped down to the furnace, or do you have any dampener or anything special done with your. 

Is yours connected right to the furnace?

thanks for the info.


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## sloeffle

NSGUY said:


> Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity,  its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to  keep that nice and dry besides the basement.   I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK  in,  I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always  having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.
> 
> Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,
> 
> Thanks for the info everyone


If you are using electric to make hot water I would look into a HPHW. It will dehumidify your basement 365 days a year and save you a ton of money on your electric bill for making hot water.


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## sleewok

NSGUY said:


> Thanks sleevwok
> my issue is very similar to yours, the more I look at it I think my immediate fix and cheapest  is to run a OAK.  Is yours just a straight run from the outside and dropped down to the furnace, or do you have any dampener or anything special done with your.
> 
> Is yours connected right to the furnace?
> 
> thanks for the info.


I have a direct connection from outside to the furnace. I plan to put in a manual damper to control the air in windy days.


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## JRHAWK9

Keep in mind, from what I was told, proper gasification is dependent on pre-heated air being used for combustion.   Using outside air for combustion may affect this if the method used for preheating doesn't heat the cold outside air enough.


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## brenndatomu

JRHAWK9 said:


> Keep in mind, from what I was told, proper gasification is dependent on pre-heated air being used for combustion.   Using outside air for combustion may affect this if the method used for preheating doesn't heat the cold outside air enough.


The HC comes with the option to do a direct connect OAK, so it must be ok?


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## JRHAWK9

brenndatomu said:


> The HC comes with the option to do a direct connect OAK, so it must be ok?



Could very well be......or it could be there just for flexibility/marketing at the expense of burn efficiency. 

Wonder if the furnace was tested with it hooked up vs not hooked up?


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## Gbawol42

So I joined the Heat Commander club and got her fired for the first time yesterday. 

Still trying to find out some operational specs though.  After loading on hot coals and pressing the button how long until it starts dialing back the primary air?  I heard the grate air close, but it's been 18 min and the primary is still fully open.  Just making sure I have proper functionality.  I know it's all temp based, but I feel I would have dialed the air back quite a while ago.  What has everyone else's experience been on a startup?

Thermostat is satisfied, button is blinking green meaning energy saving mode.

The pic is 18 minutes in, fire is good and hot.  I look in the back and it seems the air is still wide open.  That is the primary air I circled in the second pic right?  Sorry it was taken through the grate, not the best pic

Edit: so upon further looking is that middle always open and there is a shutter on each side of the middle?  I wish that back panel came off easier so I could investigate, but I would have to remove my flue to take a screw out.


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## trx250r87

If thermostat is satisfied then the primary air should be at nearly closed position, maybe 30% open at first then slowly close more every couple seconds. Then, you might hear the  primary damper motor slightly open/close to maintain optimal burn. This should be on the same side as the reload button. The opposite side is the damper motor for the ash grate. The secondary air enters through the fixed open window at the rear center. 

Eric


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## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> If thermostat is satisfied then the primary air should be at nearly closed position, maybe 30% open at first then slowly close more every couple seconds. Then, you might hear the  primary damper motor slightly open/close to maintain optimal burn. This should be on the same side as the reload button. The opposite side is the damper motor for the ash grate. The secondary air enters through the fixed open window at the rear center.
> 
> Eric


Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.  I will have to look on next reload as I left the house.  I feel though the fire was not dialed down enough, I didn't see any secondary flames either, just flames from the logs itself.  

The Heatmax was very apparent when that dampener closed, the logs almost stopped firing immediately and the secondary flames were all you saw.  I haven't really seen that yet with the Commander.

Like I said I will have to sit down and really watch the fire one day for the first hour or so.


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## Rockstar1346

Gbawol42 said:


> Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.  I will have to look on next reload as I left the house.  I feel though the fire was not dialed down enough, I didn't see any secondary flames either, just flames from the logs itself.
> 
> The Heatmax was very apparent when that dampener closed, the logs almost stopped firing immediately and the secondary flames were all you saw.  I haven't really seen that yet with the Commander.
> 
> Like I said I will have to sit down and really watch the fire one day for the first hour or so.


Do you have a manometer hooked up where you can check your draft? Last year I was in the same boat as you I got one and I was overdrafting so I installed a BD and set it to .04 now when it’s satisfied my fire almost completely dies out to this.


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## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> So I joined the Heat Commander club and got her fired for the first time yesterday.
> 
> Still trying to find out some operational specs though.  After loading on hot coals and pressing the button how long until it starts dialing back the primary air?  I heard the grate air close, but it's been 18 min and the primary is still fully open.  Just making sure I have proper functionality.  I know it's all temp based, but I feel I would have dialed the air back quite a while ago.  What has everyone else's experience been on a startup?
> 
> Thermostat is satisfied, button is blinking green meaning energy saving mode.
> 
> The pic is 18 minutes in, fire is good and hot.  I look in the back and it seems the air is still wide open.  That is the primary air I circled in the second pic right?  Sorry it was taken through the grate, not the best pic
> 
> Edit: so upon further looking is that middle always open and there is a shutter on each side of the middle?  I wish that back panel came off easier so I could investigate, but I would have to remove my flue to take a screw out.
> 
> 
> View attachment 306719
> View attachment 306722


Definitely verify your draft, then read through this thread, it seems to me there have been several people that had similar issues at first...various causes.


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## Gbawol42

brenndatomu said:


> Definitely verify your draft, then read through this thread, it seems to me there have been several people that had similar issues at first...various causes.


I hooked my old manometer up and I'm hovering around .05-.06.  Funny though when reading through the manual they really push the upper end at .06 unless you have "exceptionally" dry wood.  

I always thought my Heatmax burned way to fast at .06 so I always kept it at the .04-.05 range.

I could try backing it down to .04 I suppose, an easy and quick thing to try.  I reload in about 4 hours so I'll try then and see if that is the culprit.


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## trx250r87

It's interesting to watch the draft change when using a manometer, from the start of a fire all the way through when thermostat is satisfied. If you were to set draft using a manual key damper at -.06", light the fire and walk away, draft can go up quite a bit as everything heats up and dampers go from fully open to mostly closed. Then, when you are left with only hot coals the draft will die back down. Here is what the HC manual states....

7.6 Draft Calibration
The draft: The measurement is taken in the exhaust pipe 18" (457 mm) above the furnace's 
flue collar with a tube and a pressure gauge (manometer). 
- Poor: -0.03" W.C. (7.5 Pa) and under: ignition problems, risk of smoke spillage, low 
performance of heat exchangers.
- Ideal: from -0.04" to -0.06" W.C. (10 to 15 Pa): to obtain the optimum performance of 
the furnace.
o A barometric draft control is not required.
- Excessive: -0.08" W.C. (20 Pa): WARNING
This leads to premature wear of the furnace, a situation that is not covered by warranty.
o A draft greater than -0.08" W.C. (20 Pa) leads to uncontrollable fire even if the air 
control is in closed position. 
o The self-regulating furnace control system reduces the risk of excessive draft. If 
necessary, a barometric control must be installed to control excessive draft. It 
must be adjusted to limit the maximum draft to -0.06 in W.C. (15 Pa).


----------



## NSGUY

Gbawol42 said:


> So I joined the Heat Commander club and got her fired for the first time yesterday.
> 
> Still trying to find out some operational specs though.  After loading on hot coals and pressing the button how long until it starts dialing back the primary air?  I heard the grate air close, but it's been 18 min and the primary is still fully open.  Just making sure I have proper functionality.  I know it's all temp based, but I feel I would have dialed the air back quite a while ago.  What has everyone else's experience been on a startup?
> 
> Thermostat is satisfied, button is blinking green meaning energy saving mode.
> 
> The pic is 18 minutes in, fire is good and hot.  I look in the back and it seems the air is still wide open.  That is the primary air I circled in the second pic right?  Sorry it was taken through the grate, not the best pic
> 
> Edit: so upon further looking is that middle always open and there is a shutter on each side of the middle?  I wish that back panel came off easier so I could investigate, but I would have to remove my flue to take a screw out.
> 
> 
> View attachment 306719
> View attachment 306722


 Welcome to the commander club lol,  I noticed that same thing you did about the dampener and closing, the biggest thing I see with the furnace is consistency, Now at first I was drafting a bit to much .07 to .08  now that I got that back to .05 it overall runs much better. but a couple months ago when I first starting using it I noticed the blower would kick in before my kindling was even half burnt i'm talking within 3-4 minutes of lighting it, and before any of the dampeners closed or did anything. 

but I could notice it changing slowly over time, now I have to have a good fire going for about 10 minutes anyhow, sometimes longer  before the blower kicks in, sometimes the dampeners will adjust before the blower kicks in sometimes they don't.

sometimes the furnace just seems to be running prefect, and then other times I really questioning what I see, but that doesn't mean what I think is right lol 

This morning for instance, house was cool 64f  ( no fire for a couple days as its been warmer but cooled off during the night ) made a fire, filled the box pretty good, waited until the blower kicked in then went upstairs, can't remember if the dampeners adjusted or not.  2 hours later the house was at 72, , went down to check to see how the fire looked, it was none, just some coals, primary draft wide open, grate about half way,  i believe I had a steady green light  can't remember for sure now, pushed the button as i was going to put a piece a wood in ,  blower never even stopped running  like it normally does, all it did was close both drafts.  through a couple pieces of wood in a walked away lol 

In saying that I really the furnace it puts out good heat, but I do question what is doing sometimes, more then what I'd like. but it maybe running as it should,


----------



## NSGUY

Question for you guys, with a 3/4 to full load how high of temps are you seeing in your fire box ?  with the thermostat  not satisfied, so its still in heat producing mode, I seeing 750 F+  regularly  and the primary draft is 30% open anyhow. I assuming that normal ?


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> I seeing 750 F+ regularly


How are you getting that reading?


----------



## trx250r87

NSGUY said:


> Question for you guys, with a 3/4 to full load how high of temps are you seeing in your fire box ?  with the thermostat  not satisfied, so its still in heat producing mode, I seeing 750 F+  regularly  and the primary draft is 30% open anyhow. I assuming that normal ?


How are you measuring temps inside fire box?

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

NSGUY said:


> Welcome to the commander club lol,  I noticed that same thing you did about the dampener and closing, the biggest thing I see with the furnace is consistency, Now at first I was drafting a bit to much .07 to .08  now that I got that back to .05 it overall runs much better. but a couple months ago when I first starting using it I noticed the blower would kick in before my kindling was even half burnt i'm talking within 3-4 minutes of lighting it, and before any of the dampeners closed or did anything.
> 
> but I could notice it changing slowly over time, now I have to have a good fire going for about 10 minutes anyhow, sometimes longer  before the blower kicks in, sometimes the dampeners will adjust before the blower kicks in sometimes they don't.
> 
> sometimes the furnace just seems to be running prefect, and then other times I really questioning what I see, but that doesn't mean what I think is right lol
> 
> This morning for instance, house was cool 64f  ( no fire for a couple days as its been warmer but cooled off during the night ) made a fire, filled the box pretty good, waited until the blower kicked in then went upstairs, can't remember if the dampeners adjusted or not.  2 hours later the house was at 72, , went down to check to see how the fire looked, it was none, just some coals, primary draft wide open, grate about half way,  i believe I had a steady green light  can't remember for sure now, pushed the button as i was going to put a piece a wood in ,  blower never even stopped running  like it normally does, all it did was close both drafts.  through a couple pieces of wood in a walked away lol
> 
> In saying that I really the furnace it puts out good heat, but I do question what is doing sometimes, more then what I'd like. but it maybe running as it should,


Do you have a thermostat hooked up?  There seems to be a completly different set of variables for the burn and blower if there is a call for heat.

At first I was really questioning if I would like the blower only coming on if the plenum was at 190 if there was no call for heat, but the last 2 days I kinda like it.  Plus the blower on the HC seems to be a lot quieter than the Heatmax.  It's such a change though as I am used to the blower coming on and not turning off for 8 hours with the Heatmax.


----------



## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> The draft: The measurement is taken in the exhaust pipe 18" (457 mm) above the furnace's
> flue collar with a tube and a pressure gauge (manometer).


I'll be honest I have always had my tube right in the tee behind the outlet of the furnace.  If I went up 18 inches I would be above my barometer.

Would moving this be a huge difference?


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> Would moving this be a huge difference?


No


----------



## trx250r87

Mine is a out 6" back from the flue collar, then about another 6" to manual damper, both in horizontal section.

If you were to put the manometer above your barometer I think your measurements would be way off.  

Eric


----------



## NSGUY

brenndatomu said:


> How are you getting that reading?


With a lazer gun, not saying 100% accurate.


----------



## NSGUY

Gbawol42 said:


> Do you have a thermostat hooked up?  There seems to be a completly different set of variables for the burn and blower if there is a call for heat.
> 
> At first I was really questioning if I would like the blower only coming on if the plenum was at 190 if there was no call for heat, but the last 2 days I kinda like it.  Plus the blower on the HC seems to be a lot quieter than the Heatmax.  It's such a change though as I am used to the blower coming on and not turning off for 8 hours with the Heatmax.


Yes running a thermostat, 

and I agree I like the way the blower is setup, how it turns on and off when at temp. with my old newmac the blower upstairs was kinda loud, you could easily hear it running, I can't even hear the HC running. I love that.


----------



## brenndatomu

NSGUY said:


> With a lazer gun, not saying 100% accurate.


Certainly not...IR gun is really only accurate on a smooth flat black surface.


----------



## Gbawol42

I do miss all my temp read outs.  I don't have temp controller anymore so I can't see my internal flue temp.  Can't see my plenum temp because the HC doesn't have the digital readout anymore.  

I also wish I could tap into the firebox coupler so I could monitor the firebox temp.

I just like seeing exactly how my furnace is running.


----------



## sloeffle

I had a thermocouple hooked to a cheap Chinese PID controller to view my flue temps. A Inkbirk or another brand of BBQ thermometer could be used to view it via Bluetooth monitor. Some brands even connect to the cloud so you can view it when you aren’t home.

One probe to view flu temps, another to view plenum temps.


----------



## Gbawol42

So dialed the draft down to .04 looks like it did the trick.  I can see the secondary air is just about closed and the fire looks like I feel it should, this is about 2 hours in.


----------



## Rockstar1346

Gbawol42 said:


> So dialed the draft down to .04 looks like it did the trick.  I can see the secondary air is just about closed and the fire looks like I feel it should, this is about 2 hours in.


That looks way better!


----------



## trx250r87

FYI the secondary air does not close, it's a fixed opening at the rear center. 

Eric


----------



## Gbawol42

trx250r87 said:


> FYI the secondary air does not close, it's a fixed opening at the rear center.
> 
> Eric


Ok you have the grate air on the left, the open center, then what is the shutter on the right called?  This is the one I meant.


----------



## brenndatomu

Gbawol42 said:


> Ok you have the grate air on the left, the open center, then what is the shutter on the right called?  This is the one I meant.


Primary air...same as the front flap/damper on the Heatmax...


----------

