# Encore 2550 rebuild...  start to finish



## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

Ok, so the amount of buildup I got in my chimney last year prompted me to take the stove apart and contemplate a minor rebuild.

To set the background:

- Wood supply is good. Last year I was burning 2-3 year CSS wood, mostly oak maple and some crabapple that I cut myself.

- Stove seemed tight last year and was controllable. No obvious signs of leaks and all the door gaskets good.

- I did get weird catalytic behavior. Sluggish light off on big loads, smoke anytime below 1200F probe temp. I run a steelcat and its warped so Im considering sending it back on warranty.

- You can see there is a lot of black creosote in the firebox, but there was nothing but brown ash in the back of the stove past the catalyst and I was getting good 1100F - 1700F catalyst probe temps, once it lit off! - last year. Typically this stove runs with almost no flame in the main firebox when the cat is engaged however, which is I think why I get firebox buildup.

- Longer term I know the best bet with a VC is to replace it. Financially I'm not in a position to do that this year, but am willing to do a modest investment in parts if I can get it to last a couple more seasons.

- This is not our only source of heat. It gets used mostly on weekends only.

Ok, so to start with I did another good sweeping. I did a late season sweep last year and this time I got about 2 coffee cans of crusty black chips. Probably from only a half cord burning. I installed an outside outlet by the new patio so this time I setup the shop vac outside with a long hose through the window. So much cleaner!






Lots of crusty creosote in the box, but so far the interior castings look good.




Lower fireback looks ok, as does the damper and upper fireback. Damper gasket has seen better days but still passes the dollar test.






 Here is a summary of the completed project:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...advice-appreciated.112149/page-8#post-1536832


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## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

I had been expecting to find the refractory is shot, but I dont think it looks too bad. Took a look with the mirror and the secondary air thermostat probe looks ok also.


VC experts - does this look ok? Anything look worth replacing?


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## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

I pulled the 2 inner side panels.  The bolts came out easily (!)   Both panels still have gaskets, and there was some soot in the air channels but not enough to cause blockage.  The left side panel has creosote glazing inside, and I know that the stove seems to burn hotter on the other end (right).

The right side panel looks very clean inside, as does the thermostat mechanism, which seems to be working fine.


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## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

Here are the inner side panels. It looks like not only was the left side cooler, but some of the gasket is crudded up with creosote making me think air was leaking there.


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## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

Here are all the parts I removed. Lower fireback needs a new gasket but looks straight. The catalyst hood not surprisingly is warped and will need replacing - but I can still manage to get it to go back in.

I dont see any cracks.


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## jharkin (Aug 11, 2013)

So here is what Im thinking and where I would like some advice.

My catalyst is warped, and it does light off sluggishly. Its a Condar steelcat only 3 1/2 years old so I will send it back for a prorated warranty replacement.

The hood I will replace.

I will do the lower fireback and inner side panel gaskets and put them back. Also have a lot of creosote and soot to vacuum out.

The refractory I think is ok to leave as-is. Anyone disagree ?

The upper fireback I am temped to leave alone since the refractory is ok. I probably should do the damper gasket but it does pass the dollar test and I dont see how to replace it without pulling the upper fireback, or the flue collar. Does this sound ok, or would folks recommend I pull it and re gasket everything since I got it this far?

I did the griddle, door and ashpan gaskets last year. I might do the glass gaskets now.

Anything else I'm missing?


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## jharkin (Aug 12, 2013)

The more I think about, I think I will pull that upper fireback. I might curse the thing putting it back in, but I fear I will curse even more if I dont pull it and still have odd symptoms this winter after everything else is back together.


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## jharkin (Aug 12, 2013)

OK, to answer my own question, I pulled the upper fireback. Bolts came out easy, and halfway out I gave the right one a tap with a mallet to break the cement bond. It was wrenching that casting out that is a $(*&%(&#@@. They tell you to just swing it out to the right, but when you try it feels like its hung up on the top edge. It hangs on a lip around the flue exit and you have to wiggle it forward slowly till it falls free, then pull it out at an angle till the damper handle slides out of its hole. The tricky part is that there is only one spot lined up with the ribs on the right side wall where it fits without bending that rod.


Here it is. A real mess but seems straight and crack free.


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## jharkin (Aug 12, 2013)

And a better look at the refractory box. What do you guys think, should I replace it?

So far I'm into this project for about $250 between a warranty cat replacement, gaskets and misc parts. Replacing the refractory would add another $220 ($475 total). I dont want to do it if I dont have to, but it almost seems like doing a water pump with a timing belt, since you are in there..........


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## jharkin (Aug 12, 2013)

Alright, I'll keep this one going as a log of the rebuild in case it helps anybody in the future.

I starting working on cleaning up the castings, this is going to take the most time of the entire job. The upper fireback is a real piece of work because there is so much furnace cement on it. This stuff is more of a pain to get off than gasket glue. I cleaned it with a wire brush and started chiseling off the big chunks. Neighbors probably think my garage sounds like a blacksmith shop.

Next step will be to use the dremel with a grinder and wire wheel and take all the mating surfaces down to bare metal.







Even more of a pain will be cleaning up the inside of the firebox.


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## jharkin (Aug 13, 2013)

Work continues. Old cat is on its way back to Condar on warranty and I ordered a the hood and a full gasket kit from woodmans. Fedex says a package is on the way but it doesn't sound heavy enough to include the hood... hope its not on long backorder.


In the mean time more work on the castings in prep for new gaskets. Goal here is to get every surface that will get glue or a gasket down to shiny clean metal. First up is the upper fire back. I chiseled off the big chucks with a a hammer and old screwdriver then use a grinding bit in the dremel to get the rest. I'll give the whole thing a once over with the wire brush when done.

I have a lot of respect for professional stove techs who can rebuild an entire cast stove in a day. I probably spent a good hour and a half just on this one casting and its not done yet. 3 more to go after that, and then the real messy job cleaning up the mating surfaces inside the stove.




One thing I haven't decided yet is how to reinstall the upper - gaskets, glue or both. Its got channels for gaskets, but was only cemented in. Doing a search of the forums reveals differing opinions. (This may have been worked on before, previous owners of the stove left a large half used tub of furnace cement behind)


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## fortuna1 (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for posting this. Keep going!
I sold my Fisher Grandpa and just got one of these stoves ( 2550 ) and it needs gaskets and a cat. Just ordered the cat and a gasket kit from Black Swan. Probably getting to it in a day or two so this is timely.


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> Thanks for posting this. Keep going!
> I sold my Fisher Grandpa and just got one of these stoves ( 2550 ) and it needs gaskets and a cat. Just ordered the cat and a gasket kit from Black Swan. Probably getting to it in a day or two so this is timely.


 
You are lucky in that the cat is very easy to do -assuming the refractory box is in OK shape and no iron parts warped.  Just pop the two iron wedges and pull the lower back. When its open use a mirror to look for the secondary air thermostat probe in the bottom of the refractory box and replace it if its badly deteriorated (easy access through metal cover on back of stove)..

All the gaskets on the moving parts (doors, griddle, etc) and most especially the ash pan have to be pretty much perfect for this stove to work right so take your time and don't rush replacing them all. I ripped out and regasketed my griddle twice a couple years ago before I was satisfied with the result.

Good luck!


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## fortuna1 (Aug 14, 2013)

Quick question. Some websites talk about a gasket around the catalytic combuster. Is it needed?


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## fortuna1 (Aug 14, 2013)

Also, have you used a catalyst temp sensor? Worth the install?


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> Quick question. Some websites talk about a gasket around the catalytic combuster. Is it needed?



The gaskets referred to is a mica impregnated expanding gasket tape such as Condar Catguard. Since this stove has a ceramic refractory, you are not supposed to need one. Last year however I found that there was a pretty big gap around mine due to old refractory (almost 1/4") and I decided to use one. Careful though, if the cat is snug in there adding a gasket could deform the refractory.



fortuna1 said:


> Also, have you used a catalyst temp sensor? Worth the install?



Yes I do - see the metal rod below where the cat sits in my photo of the refractory. There is a metal button on the back casting you pop off and insert the probe. I use the Condar Digital monitor. Others cook up there own with a k type thermocouple and digital reader - parts available for around $30 through amazon (member Joful posted a sample setup last year).

For this stove I feel the monitor is a must have. Its much easier, and I feel safer, to set the air controls based on catalytic temp (rather than griddle temp alone). Because of the stoves design its possible for the griddle thermometer to be in the safe zone while the catalyst is at overfire temp. Without the monitor your only sign of trouble would be the sight of glowing cast iron through the window (bad!)

With the cat monitor operating the stove is simple:

Start up a fire and let it burn wide open to warm up the stove
On a new load you close the damper (bypass) when the probe reads 500F (I go higher on big loads).
If the cat lights off properly you should see it rise to 1000F+ in 5 min or less, if it climbs slowly and stops around 800 that is a catalyst stall and you need to reopen the damper and heat it up some more then try again. Once the cat is active start closing down the air control in increments till you reach cruising. For me this is with the air between fully closed and 1/3 open, depending on how much heat you want.
Any time you see the cat probe temp over 1600 you should close the air completely (1700+ is the danger zone)
In cruising mode the cat temp will normally be in the 1100-1600 range (griddle might be 500-700 depending on how the primary air is set). During this part of the burn the air control will typically be almost closed but the stove is pumping out massive heat from the back casting due to the cat. Probe temp usually will slowly climb through the burn then peak and drop off fast. This part of the burn might be 1-2 hours for a couple splits or as much as 4-6 hours on a full packed load of Oak.
Once the probe temp peaks and starts falling s you know the major out gassing phase of the burn is done. You still have hours of usable heat in the coals and at this point you can safely open up the air control to maintain griddle temp without fear of overheating the catalyst.
Once the cat temp falls below 800 with the air control open the load is pretty much burned out and its time to reload.
rinse & repeat...


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Work continues. Old cat is on its way back to Condar on warranty and I ordered a the hood and a full gasket kit from woodmans. Fedex says a package is on the way but it doesn't sound heavy enough to include the hood... hope its not on long backorder.


 
No suprise, got an email from Woodmans that the combustion throat is on back order. Will have to call them and find out what the ETA is. Worse case I think the existing one will still fit back in, maybe with a little grinding..  Bigger question is can they get the refractory if I decide I need it.


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## Defiant (Aug 14, 2013)

I have been getting my parts here http://www.fergusonfireplace.com/
They are very helpful, I got my refractory there and I find their prices cheaper than Woodmans.

Now that you have gone that far I would go for the new refractory package and check out your secondary air probe. Looks like you are doing a great job. One thing I do when reinstalling the damper assembly is lay the stove on it's back on blocks. It makes it easier to line up. I will be doing mine this week if you need any photos of the aforementioned position.


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

Defiant said:


> I have been getting my parts here http://www.fergusonfireplace.com/ferfirpartslookuppage.html
> They are very helpful, I got my refractory there and I find their prices cheaper than Woodmans.
> 
> Now that you have gone that far I would go for the new refractory package and check out your secondary air probe. Looks like you are doing a great job. One thing I do when reinstalling the damper assembly is lay the stove on it's back on blocks. It makes it easier to line up. I will be doing mine this week if you need any photos of the aforementioned position.


 
Thanks I will give them a call and look at ordering a refractory. The secondary probe I changed 3 years ago and looks ok to reinstall. (BTW I noticed that Black Swan and Stove Parts Unlimited are also out of stock of everything... hope there inst a part shortage related to the buyout)

I would certainly like to see photos of how you do it. So far I'm just working on the stove in place on the hearth. How is it to lie the beast down - a doable 2 man job? I'm guessing with all the guts out and door/griddle off the shell still weighs close to 300lb?

Oh and last question for you - do you cement or gasket the upper in? Mine was cemented but it looks like you could gasket the sides for sure and maybe even the top flange. The 5927 fireback kit instructions that Im using as an assembly guide just say bolt it in.


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## Defiant (Aug 14, 2013)

I tilt the stove myself, it is very light with all the innards out, I use a double 6 x 6 blocks to lay it on, I'll submit photos when I get there, much easier to work on out of the fireplace, lay out a drop cloth to work on it.  I gasket the sides and put a bead across the top flange before bolting together.


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

A bit more every day. Upper back is almost ready for new gaskets, and looks in remarkably good shape once all the old cement and baked on soot is cleaned off.


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2013)

I have some questions being that I have this same PIA. Is the damper assembly only held in by furnace cement? Is there a way to replace the damper gasket without removing the complete assembly? I should just say screw this 30 y/o VC and get a new stove already.


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## jharkin (Aug 15, 2013)

Reckless said:


> I have some questions being that I have this same PIA. Is the damper assembly only held in by furnace cement? Is there a way to replace the damper gasket without removing the complete assembly? I should just say screw this 30 y/o VC and get a new stove already.


 

What model stove do you have? This one was only made since the mid 90s, and to do the damper gasket you either have to pull the upper like I did, or take off the flue collar and try to work from inside the back. Older Encores like the 0028 and 2140 I believe had the gasket on the damper plate itself and could be replaced from inside the stove assuming you can reach in there. The older ones also had a larger upper fire back held in by 4 bolts.


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2013)

jharkin said:


> What model stove do you have? This one was only made since the mid 90s, and to do the damper gasket you either have to pull the upper like I did, or take off the flue collar and try to work from inside the back. Older Encores like the 0028 and 2140 I believe had the gasket on the damper plate itself and could be replaced from inside the stove assuming you can reach in there. The older ones also had a larger upper fire back held in by 4 bolts.


Its a 2550 but the original owner NEVER took care of it, so it only seems like 30 years old...... The flue collar is gasket rope or? And it still looks like it will be tough even that direction. Maybe Ill just put up with cold mornings and rough it out till I get a new stove :/


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## jharkin (Aug 15, 2013)

Gotcha. The flue collar is gasketed. I agree it looks tough but suposedly is doable to get the damper that way.

If you do it the way I am  you do have to half gut the stove, and if anything is warped or a bolt breaks it might get expensive. You can use the instructions for the fire back kit as a guide. Probably not worth it if you are set on replacing it in a year or so, I'm hoping to get at least 3-5 more from mine.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...9Kl4ohro7CxK1PVwVCuj5SA&bvm=bv.50768961,d.aWc


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## Defiant (Aug 15, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Its a 2550 but the original owner NEVER took care of it, so it only seems like 30 years old...... The flue collar is gasket rope or? And it still looks like it will be tough even that direction. Maybe Ill just put up with cold mornings and rough it out till I get a new stove :/


I'll take your 2550 and give you a Vigilant


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2013)

Found my own answer..... How do you guys out up with all these gaskets and moving parts in this thing? Its enough to drive a man CRAZY!
5/16 Med Density Fiberglass Gasket Doors, Damper, Flue Collar, Cat Access


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## jharkin (Aug 15, 2013)

Call me crazy, I'm having fun working on it 

Defiant, you should change the thread title to "encore 2550 overhaul" its gotten bigger than a minor project


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Gotcha. The flue collar is gasketed. I agree it looks tough but suposedly is doable to get the damper that way.
> 
> If you do it the way I am you do have to half gut the stove, and if anything is warped or a bolt breaks it might get expensive. You can use the instructions for the fire back kit as a guide. Probably not worth it if you are set on replacing it in a year or so, I'm hoping to get at least 3-5 more from mine.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=encore fireback kit&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http://www.increa.com/reverse/defiant-encore-stove-catalytic-replacement/encore2550-fireback.pdf&ei=YjQNUqnoFMTfyQHM1YGoBA&usg=AFQjCNFX_bM9Kl4ohro7CxK1PVwVCuj5SA&bvm=bv.50768961,d.aWc


 
I did the fireback, doors and griddle gaskets and replaced the cat last year and just pulled the fireback back off to do the secondary probe and check my gasket work..... This thing is super high maintenance.



Defiant said:


> I'll take your 2550 and give you a Vigilant


 
I never want another VC again that's for sure!


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## jharkin (Aug 15, 2013)

You should see the '79 Resolute I grew up with. My Dad still uses it to this day. Bet your 2550 is in great shape by comparison....


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2013)

jharkin said:


> You should see the '79 Resolute I grew up with. My Dad still uses it to this day. Bet your 2550 is in great shape by comparison....


You would be surprised what a man with no clue what he was doing can do to a stove in 20 years +/-..... just to give you an idea this stove is sitting in a fireplace with the 3' oval stack into a 3' wide chimney and you know what he used as a block off plate??? Standard insulation. Im surprised this house is still standing


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## Defiant (Aug 15, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Defiant, you should change the thread title to "encore 2550 overhaul" its gotten bigger than a minor project


Not quite sure how to use my newly gained powers This will keep going, sorry I will be distracted for awhile, tuna season!!


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## CTPipeDream (Aug 15, 2013)

Seems to me like your doing alot of work on this stove for no reason. If your getting excessive creosote in your chimney it just means the stove is not burning efficiently and your getting bi-product up the chimney. This is most likely from the cat no functioning properly and the only thing you can do to remedy that is by changing out the cat. The refractoy in that stove looked okay and you could probably pin up the cat so it is in the proper position in the refractory. I don't see why you would want to drop the lower fireback as that is a major job on the 2550, so I do agree with one of the previous posters that you should replace the refractory since you've gotten that far. Those upper firebacks are miserable to put back in by yourself. The only other thing that would cause soot in the chimney would be wet wood, which is also the reason you see glazing on the inside of the firebox. You don't need a cat probe or anything like that a simple magnetic thermometer on the griddle is fine. If you burn the stove at 500-650 degrees on the griddle temp the cat will be burning about 1300 degrees and function properly.


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## jharkin (Aug 15, 2013)

CTPipeDream said:


> Seems to me like your doing alot of work on this stove for no reason. If your getting excessive creosote in your chimney it just means the stove is not burning efficiently and your getting bi-product up the chimney. This is most likely from the cat no functioning properly and the only thing you can do to remedy that is by changing out the cat.


 
Being new, you probably haven't seen my previous threads. I was struggling all last winter - getting this buildup even though my cat temps where usually over 1000F. BrowningBAR had similar problems an a similarly rebuilt Encore. I see nothing but brown ash in the immediate cat exit area, then black stuff further up the pipe which makes me think smoke is leaking past the cat somewhere.



> The refractoy in that stove looked okay and you could probably pin up the cat so it is in the proper position in the refractory. I don't see why you would want to drop the lower fireback as that is a major job on the 2550, so I do agree with one of the previous posters that you should replace the refractory since you've gotten that far.


 
The lower back is easy, its the upper that's a pain. The damper gasket needed doing if nothing else, and looked to be even more of a pain to pull the entire stove out from the hearth and take off the flue collar then try to work in the cramped space behind it.  So I figured why not keep going since I did this much.



> Those upper firebacks are miserable to put back in by yourself. The only other thing that would cause soot in the chimney would be wet wood, which is also the reason you see glazing on the inside of the firebox.


 
Wet wood has been eliminated. Im burning stuff that I cut and split myself 2-3 years stacked. Moisture meter confirmed to be mostly under 18% - on a fresh resplit. Note that Blaze King guys also get buildup in the firebox before the cat - there is no way to avoid it when burning a catalytic stove low. They smoulder by design, and use the cat to clean up the mess.



> You don't need a cat probe or anything like that a simple magnetic thermometer on the griddle is fine. If you burn the stove at 500-650 degrees on the griddle temp the cat will be burning about 1300 degrees and function properly.


 
Not in my experience. Before I got the cat probe I saw glowing iron with the griddle temp BELOW 550. After getting the probe and could see whats giong on I often had cat temps hitting 1600 even 1700 with the griddle as low as 500. Other VC owners on this forum have reported similar findings.


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## fortuna1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Not in my experience. Before I got the cat probe I saw glowing iron with the griddle temp BELOW 550. After getting the probe and could see whats giong on I often had cat temps hitting 1600 even 1700 with the griddle as low as 500. Other VC owners on this forum have reported similar findings.[/quote]


Just ordered the Condar cat probe. When I pop the metal cap off, does that head right into the refractory assembly? Do you just push it through and leave it with no sealant?

Thanks.


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## jharkin (Aug 16, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> Just ordered the Condar cat probe. When I pop the metal cap off, does that head right into the refractory assembly? Do you just push it through and leave it with no sealant?
> 
> Thanks.


 
Use a 1/4 drill bit and twist it by hand through that access to make a hole in the refractory (same procedure as replacing secondary).  Then just slide the probe in.


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## Reckless (Aug 16, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> Not in my experience. Before I got the cat probe I saw glowing iron with the griddle temp BELOW 550. After getting the probe and could see whats giong on I often had cat temps hitting 1600 even 1700 with the griddle as low as 500. Other VC owners on this forum have reported similar findings.
> 
> 
> Just ordered the Condar cat probe. When I pop the metal cap off, does that head right into the refractory assembly? Do you just push it through and leave it with no sealant?
> ...


 
That's the way the secondary is in there, once in I pushed the refractory around the probe to seal up the slight gap (Im not sure if this is the correct way).

Now that my frustration levels have subsided I've decided to keep the VC and move it to the basement once I get my new insert  This thread in a way has inspired me and will be pinned so I can do a complete rebuild next year once the stove is moved to an open area (working in a fireplace is not fun). Thanks guys!!


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## jharkin (Aug 16, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Now that my frustration levels have subsided I've decided to keep the VC and move it to the basement once I get my new insert  This thread in a way has inspired me and will be pinned so I can do a complete rebuild next year once the stove is moved to an open area (working in a fireplace is not fun). Thanks guys!!


 
Glad we could be of help.  These stoves are temperamental when perfect, and it only makes things worse if they have been abused.  Mine is not as bad a shape as yours sounds but I dont think it was babied either.  Previous owners of this house I think had a lot of good intentions not always matched by skill (I spend a lot of time fixing sloppy renovation work) and I believe that included the stove.  When I got it the original cat was shot and the refractory access panel was in upside down - with the lip completely blocking the secondary air.  Our new friend CT is  right that Im probably doing more than is strictly necessary - but partly its because I dont know how well it was put together previously and want to be sure its done right.


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## Defiant (Aug 16, 2013)

Hey guys keep going, I am headed offshore tuna fishing and won't be back till next Wed eve


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## fortuna1 (Aug 16, 2013)

Jharkin,
A couple more questions.
I'm regasketing the stove doors and I am wondering if the line in the middle where the doors meet needs to have some sort of material, or just metal on metal. My old fisher didn't need it but that's a WAY different stove...

Also, I noticed how the catalyst is held in by a shelf, which means part of it is blocked on the bottom.  Is that the way it's supposed to be? Seems like it would cut the efficiency of the cat.
Thanks!


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## jharkin (Aug 16, 2013)

Defiant said:


> Hey guys keep going, I am headed offshore tuna fishing and won't be back till next Wed eve


 

Have fun.  When you get back can you check for me what size gaskets the inner side panels get?  It looks like it might be the big stuff (3/8) from the size of the channels but there is no mention in the manual.


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## jharkin (Aug 16, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> Jharkin,
> A couple more questions.
> I'm regasketing the stove doors and I am wondering if the line in the middle where the doors meet needs to have some sort of material, or just metal on metal. My old fisher didn't need it but that's a WAY different stove...


 
The center seam absolutely needs a gasket.  On the left hand door, the gasket makes a continuous loop completely around the door. It should run on the channel to the inside of the door on the top/bottom and outside edge, then wrap around to the groove on the outside of the door on the inner edge where it mates with the right hand door.



> Also, I noticed how the catalyst is held in by a shelf, which means part of it is blocked on the bottom. Is that the way it's supposed to be? Seems like it would cut the efficiency of the cat.
> Thanks!


 
the cat doesn't sit on that shelf in the main chamber. It should actually fit snugly where the access panel fits, leaving it suspended about a half inch or so above the shelf. The access panel has a small lip on the lower inside edge that hold the cat in place.


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## CTPipeDream (Aug 16, 2013)

You need 3/8 gasket for the side panels


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## CTPipeDream (Aug 16, 2013)

the cat goes like this.


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## jharkin (Aug 17, 2013)

Wow that's a clean looking encore... Your refractory looks kind of grey... Did they change the material or is it just the photo?


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## STOVEGUY11 (Aug 17, 2013)

Looks like a new refractory to me


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## CTPipeDream (Aug 17, 2013)

Thats during an complete rebuild hence the ratchet strap on the stove. That refractory is brand new right out of the box.


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## jharkin (Aug 17, 2013)

CTPipeDream said:


> Thats during an complete rebuild hence the ratchet strap on the stove. That refractory is brand new right out of the box.


 
Intersting.  When I first got this stove I replaced the refractory acess panel - and the new one from the shop was bright white... must just be the lighting in the photo....


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## jharkin (Aug 17, 2013)

OK, so had a couple hours today and made more progress. Upper housing is ready to re-gasket now so first I cleaned up the damper. I took the adjuster mechanism apart so I could reset it. Ideally I want the new gasket to be tight with the adjuster bottomed out so I have room to adjust in future.

To break that phillips head loose I used my electric impact driver. Pops it loose effortlessly without stripping the head. Use lots of anti-seize putting it all back together.


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## jharkin (Aug 17, 2013)

And now I got the new gasket glued in to the damper, but after clamping for an hour to set up I am not happy. I had to tighten the adjuster quite a bit and the dollar bill is still a bit looser along the top edge than I would like (but very tight on the bottom).

I probably stretched the gasket too much putting it in. I dont want to ever have to redo this again until its due for the next major rebuild in ~ 10 years so I just might rip it out and try again now. Gasket is cheap.


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## jharkin (Aug 17, 2013)

Some more time so I cleaned the right side panel. Same routine as the fireback - two handed approach with a dremel/grinding bit and shop vac to clean the gasket channel. Seems tedious at first but I got it done in under an hour. Then a quick wire brushing over the rest of the panel.

Whoever did this one last figured if some glue is good a lot more is better. There was tons of cement squeezed out around the gaksets...







My wife has started making pies.  That must be a sign fall is coming.  Time to pick up the pace!


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## begreen (Aug 17, 2013)

Great thread. I'm really enjoying the progress Jeremy. My wife made apple crisp with our Spartans yesterday. Pie coming tomorrow. Yum!


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## jharkin (Aug 18, 2013)

No progress today, going out to fly


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## fortuna1 (Aug 19, 2013)

jharkin said:


> No progress today, going out to fly
> View attachment 108813



Enjoying this thread as well.
About the cat, do you all use a special gasket for the cat? The guy at firecat where I'm getting the catalyst is trying to sell me on it.


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## jharkin (Aug 19, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> About the cat, do you all use a special gasket for the cat? The guy at firecat where I'm getting the catalyst is trying to sell me on it.


 
You are not supposed to. The cat should be a fairly snug fit in the refractory and then when it gets hot everything expands to seal tight.

That being said, last year with my warn out refractory and warped cat I had a big gap and used some to tighten it up. Not sure it helped much. Definitely dont do this with new parts, I think you could end up deforming the refractory box.


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## jharkin (Aug 19, 2013)

Making progress again. New combustion throat is here and I got an email from Condar that the warranty replacement cat is on the FedEx truck.  Now I just have to make a call to find a new refractory.

Tonight I spent some time cleaning up the lower fireback. Unlike the side panels, I was the last one to re-gasket it and only used the recommended 1/8" bead of glue, it only took me 20min to get all the residue off. 

The lower fireback gets probably the most abuse of any part of the stove, having the heat of the  firebox on one side and the 1700F cat exhaust on the other. I'm sure some metallurgists could probably tell us something about the heat this thing was exposed to just from the way it turned the iron all those funky shades of red.

The heat also does a job on gasket. It was a gray graphite impregnated rope gasket but its turned all white and crumbly from the heat.


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## jharkin (Aug 19, 2013)

Still to do...


Clean up the left side panel
Regasket the window glass
Rip out and redo the damper gasket a second time
Clean all the cement residue from inside the stove
Replace refractory
 
Then regasket everything and put it all back together.  Other than the off chance of cracking the glass when I take the windows out the only thing that really has me worried is getting that upper fireback back in.

I have been picking up a lot of chunks of furnace cement slag as I clean the inside of the stove. I think a lot of it is excess from the seams around the top. I'm really hoping that the cement in the tongue and groove joints is still good because i really really dont want to strip this thing down all the way. I dont know that Id be able to get it all back together perfect.


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## Reckless (Aug 20, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Still to do...
> 
> 
> Rip out and redo the damper gasket a second time


 
So how much glue and your sayin don't stretch it too much right? I have a feeling I stretched my griddle gasket too much.... easy fix tho


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## jharkin (Aug 20, 2013)

The fire back kit instructions recommend using a 1/8" bead of glue.  I cant claim to an expert but I lay out a bead enough to coat the groove but not so much that it will squeeze out when you press in the gasket.  I am using a tube of "gasket cement" from the local stove shop, not furnace cement - this stuff is a bit thinner consistency.

Definitely try not to stretch the gasket too much, but don't bunch it up either.  The wirewound griddle gasket might not stretch much but the regular rope stuff does considerably and when its stretched out is a bit thinner and may not seal as well.


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## Reckless (Aug 20, 2013)

jharkin said:


> The wirewound griddle gasket might not stretch much but the regular rope stuff does considerably and when its stretched out is a bit thinner and may not seal as well.


Ever since I replaced the battered and beatup griddle gasket I now get puffs of smoke, I was thinking of going with non-wire which I heard works better but needs to be replaced more often.


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## jharkin (Aug 20, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Ever since I replaced the battered and beatup griddle gasket I now get puffs of smoke, I was thinking of going with non-wire which I heard works better but needs to be replaced more often.


 
BINGO - Thats exactly what happened to me and what I ended up doing.  I replace the rope every 2 years or so but its only a half hour job so I don't mind.


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## Reckless (Aug 20, 2013)

jharkin said:


> BINGO - Thats exactly what happened to me and what I ended up doing. I replace the rope every 2 years or so but its only a half hour job so I don't mind.


 Did you stick with 5/16 or go to 3/8?


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## jharkin (Aug 20, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Did you stick with 5/16 or go to 3/8?


 

5/16


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## jharkin (Aug 20, 2013)

k, all parts are here or on the way. Refractory is ordered, and the warranty replacement steelcat arrived from Condar today. I should have taken a better photo of the old one, but just looking at it I see a big difference. The new one has a uniform brown coloring to the cells while the old one had faded to dull grey . I can't have put much  more than 4000 hours on it the way I burn but it looks like it may have been toast.

So, all told I'm in this for just over $400 including misc parts. Sure its probably more than the stove needed but hopefully it will be good for another 10 years. Looking forward to much better performance this season.


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## ScotO (Aug 20, 2013)

I must say, Jeremy, you've done an excellent job of documenting the rebuild of your Encore.....I mean excellent!
I read the whole post and I gotta say, that stove sounds like a PITA to work on....how often do you do this overhaul? is this a "once every ten years" thing or every other year?

I have to replace the door gasket and glass gasket on my Napoleon 1900p, and also modify the byfold door seal on my NZ3000 before fall (the bifold doors don't seal very good from the factory where they overlap, so I have an idea in mind, and it should work great. Just have to take the glass out of one door and modify the door overlap slightly). I'll be sure to post my work when I get to it.

Again, excellent job.....top notch documentation, and your stove should perform like new when done!!


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## begreen (Aug 20, 2013)

So when are you going to change this from a "minor" rebuild?  Looks like you are going all the way to do it right.


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## ScotO (Aug 20, 2013)

begreen said:


> So when are you going to change this from a "minor" rebuild?  Looks like you are going all the way to do it right.


I was going to mention that myself, BG....Minor rebuild my azz!!


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## jharkin (Aug 20, 2013)

HaHa thanks guys. Its not all the way... All the way would be breaking it down completely, top sides back off and recementing everything. That I DONT want to do unless there is no choice, I'm told its hard to get right if you are not an experienced tech.

As to how often... Consider this stove is 16 Years old and the first 12 of those years where with the house former owner. I have no idea if its been abused. This job should be one that only gets done whenever the refractory needs replacing, which depending on how much you burn I've read should be every 10 years or so??
I've seen other mention of needing to do a full tear down recement every 10, but I know first hand my Dad still burns the old '79 Resolute I grew up with and its never been rebuilt. Well the damper is busted and its probably burning like a smoke dragon now because of it but its still servicable.


But yeah, owning a VC is not for the faint of heart when it comes to maintenance. I'd be cursing this thing if I didn't have the dremel, grinder and impact driver to make things go faster. It better be worth it!


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## begreen (Aug 20, 2013)

The '79 Resolute was a great stove but a different animal.Sounds like your dad's is seriously overdue for a rebuild.


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> The '79 Resolute was a great stove but a different animal.Sounds like your dad's is seriously overdue for a rebuild.


 
Its overdue to get replaced really.  Bypass damper broke a couple years ago and they dont make parts anymore. He got it welded up by a buddy of his who runs a shop but that only held for a season. Replacing is just not a top priority for them right now due to finances, but they are on oil and cant afford to stop using it either. I'm trying to steer him to reliable/economical choices like a 30-NC.   The ironic good thing is that he is heating 1600ft with it so he burns hot which keeps his pipe fairly clean even though its running like a dragon.

I have fond memories of us kids drying our snowsuits by that stove on snow days back in the 80s.  Probably some part of me that resists chucking the Encore to the curb because of those memories. It is kind of sad to see what happened to VC.


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> I was going to mention that myself, BG....Minor rebuild my azz!!


 
Ha.  Do I get some points toward my Overkill merit badge (tm) ?



BeGreen, you can change the thread title to 'Encore 2550 Overhaul' if you want..


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## ScotO (Aug 21, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Ha.  Do I get some points toward my Overkill merit badge (tm) ?


ABSOLUTELY!!  Can't get anymore "overkill" than that!


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## begreen (Aug 21, 2013)

I just shortened it to VC rebuild.


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> I just shortened it to VC rebuild.


 
Hmm I don't see any change.


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## begreen (Aug 21, 2013)

maybe cached? refresh your browser. all I did was remove "minor".


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## Reckless (Aug 21, 2013)

Changed for me.... just sayin


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## jharkin (Aug 21, 2013)

I see it now


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## Reckless (Aug 21, 2013)

So I took off my flue collar and it will be much easier to get to the damper gasket now. In the process I broke both bolts but they are tru holes with nuts so no worries. I was looking for the gasket size and found this http://literature.mhsc.com/vermont_castings/manuals/2008843_Encore_Gskt_3419-4109.pdf 
So the flue collar is a 5/16 and the gasket grove is on the stove side but it looks like it was glued opposite at the factory anyone know which side I should put the glue on flue collar or stove??


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## Reckless (Aug 21, 2013)

Answer is right in the manual I posted... stove side in the groove.


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## jharkin (Aug 22, 2013)

Ok so making some more progress tonight.  First up a word about parts.

I got the new Condar warranty replacement Steelcat.  As I mentioned before hte previous one only had a bit over 3 seasons and ~4,000 hours on it (they are supposed to be good for 12,000) but the warping and the smoky operation below 1100F makes me think it wasnt working 100%. I even gave it a vinegar wash last year without much improvement.

So look at the difference in coloring between old and new. The uniform brown coloring of the new ones makes me think the old one really did have most of its active material stripped.  Im hoping I just got a bad one or my beginner abuse killed it and I'll get a lot more life from the new one.






Also a comparison of old and new combustion throat. Its hard to tell in the photos but the old one was starting to warp and is bowed in > 1/8" in the middle. I could probably still get it back in but with a new one costing under $30 why not?


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## jharkin (Aug 22, 2013)

I also cleaned up the left inner side panel. There was almost 1/4" thickness of cement in some parts of the gasket channel and excess cement on some of the edges - either excess from the gasket or somebody's poor attempt to seal up air leaks.  It all has to go so that this will fit easily on reassembly.


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## jharkin (Aug 22, 2013)

the pile of parts is growing... Next up will be the door glass I think.


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## Defiant (Aug 23, 2013)

Nice progress, thanks BG for changing the title, jharkin I think most of your questions were answered along the way, the thread really grew with some great information, let me know if there are any more questions, meanwhile I have to do my own rebuild


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## jharkin (Aug 23, 2013)

Yea, I think I'm good to go now.  Obviously doing more than I needed to but hopefully I'll be set for a decade +.  I'm getting excited to see how this thing performs once its back together - bring on winter!

I'll keep the photo log going as I finish up so we can save it as a reference for other VC owners.


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## jharkin (Aug 23, 2013)

BEEP ** BEEP ** BEEP

We need to briefly pause this thread for a critical public service announcement.




Its that time of year friends. Ready your stacks, get out the supercedars, break out your stoves, send the kids back to school.

Fall is approaching!
(And hopefully soon a real 'Oktober like Spaten )


BEEP ** BEEP ** BEEP

We now return to our regularly scheduled thread....


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## jharkin (Aug 23, 2013)

So where was I... Oh yeah woodstove repair.

The refractory came today. So I yanked out the old one and did a test fit of the new combustion to the new one.

Observations:

The old refractory was beat, but probably still serviceable for quite a few seasons yet.
The hole I made for the probe thermometer is quite a bit oversize and it might have been leaking excess air in there. Have to be careful installing the probes in the new unit.
The new cat fits very snug into the new refractory. This is quite refreshing vs the old warped cat and worn refractory where it would fall in without support.






And here is the secondary air thermostat probe. I replaced this previously 4 years ago. A bit worn but still usable ( the prior one was burned off completely).... If it was a $10 part Id replace it just because like the combustion throat but they want $45 for this tiny piece!!


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## fortuna1 (Aug 23, 2013)

Glass, doors, side panels, and back plate re-gasketed. Catalyst in the mail. Catalyst thermal probe installed and chimney stack built and installed. Almost ready to fire up, and at 8500 feet in the Rockies, none too soon...
This thread has been timely and invaluable. Thanks for all your postings. I'll post a pic when she's ready to go.


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## Reckless (Aug 24, 2013)

jharkin said:


> And here is the secondary air thermostat probe. I replaced this previously 4 years ago. A bit worn but still usable ( the prior one was burned off completely).... If it was a $10 part Id replace it just because like the combustion throat but they want $45 for this tiny piece!!


 
$45?? I got mine for $30 I believe. And you have seen this pic before


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## begreen (Aug 24, 2013)

For a full rebuild I would want a new one in place. Keep the used one for a spare.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

Reckless said:


> $45?? I got mine for $30 I believe. And you have seen this pic before


 
$30??? Where ???  My local shop, Woodmans, Black Swan and Stove Parts Unlimited all want between $45 and 50 for it.



begreen said:


> For a full rebuild I would want a new one in place. Keep the used one for a spare.


 
Maybe but mine really inst that worn at all (nothing like rekless' ), only has a bit over 3 seasons use on it. I'll do a test with the torch to make sure its still conducting heat to the coil and as long as its working put it back.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

The house is in turmoil this weekend... We are trying to potty train the twins, and since we just love to punish ourselves we transitioned them from cribs to toddler beds today as well. I spent the morning taking convertible crib sides off and assembling bed rails.

Needless to say I was not expecting any peace tonight, but yet by some miracle they went right to sleep!

So back to work it is. Tonight I started on the doors. Start by taking them off, plastic over the opening to keep the house clean, and start a couple hardware bags.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

Main objective here is to replace the glass gaskets. Door gaskets I did a couple years ago so I was not expecting to do them again but the gasket is falling out in some places. I wonder if its the glue? I had used rutland back in the past but last year the local shop guys suggested to use this Meeco Red Devil stuff. Hope that lasts longer on gaskets. Might redo the who things since Ive got the door gasket material in the kit.

Anyway, the trickiest part is getting the small screws and glass clips off without breaking anything. Even though the galss burns clean, creosote tends to buildup along the frames and coats the screws. Do your best to chip it away and dont feel shy about tapping around the screws with a small chisel. The glass as we all know is ceramic and wont crack unless you give it a direct blow.

Unfortunately no matter how good I cleaned it up, some of the those button head philips screws are too fulll of buildup to get a good bite with the screwdriver. Whatever you do, DONT cut the heads off thinking you will just drill and tap new holes - these are very shallow screws and you would likely have to drill holes all the way through the door casting to get a  tap to fit.

I have a trick to get this out. Read on in the next installment...








(dont forget to label your glass panes before taking them out. These are single pane coated glass and you have to make sure the coated side is out on reassembly).


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

So the trick to get the screws out is quite simple. Its something I learned from working on R/C airplanes because we use a lot of small hardware, 2-56, 4-40, 6-32, etc and its easy to strip tiny allen head cap screws.

What you do is get a dremel cutoff wheel, and use it to cut a slot in the screw head. Cut deep enough to get a good bite, but not so deep you bottom out and weaken the head. Then find the largest flat head screwdriver that will fit and give it a turn. Even better, and what I did, is to use the electric impact driver again.

I got all 11 screws out without breaking a single one. I think I had to use this trick on 7 of them. All new hardware will be in order... Have to check the size I think these are #8 or #10.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

So both glass panes are out and set aside wrapped in towels. I started cleaning out the first gasket channel a bit then called it a night.





I'm going to need to get all new hardware, and also touch up the paint on these a bit around the windows before I re-gasket and reassemble.


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## jharkin (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh and I know what you are thinking  - "Look at all that buildup! What is he burning, wet newspaper?"

In my defense a lot of that buildup is from the prior owners... Who were also the folks who but the refractory access in upside down blocking the secondary air and used and inch think layer of glue on every gasket


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## Reckless (Aug 26, 2013)

Whats the difference between rutlands black and grey gaskets??? Anyone?? I have some of both. Oh and don't forget to that small gasket section door to door

If you don't mind Im gonna throw up some of my damper regasket pics that I did from rear (what a PIA thank god from dremels!!)



jharkin said:


> $30??? Where ??? My local shop, Woodmans, Black Swan and Stove Parts Unlimited all want between $45 and 50 for it.


 
I might have lucked out on ebay tbh... I know for sure I paid $30 though.


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## jharkin (Aug 26, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Whats the difference between rutlands black and grey gaskets??? Anyone?? I have some of both. Oh and don't forget to that small gasket section door to door


 
Oh I meant the "rutland black" glue, that comes in a caulk gun tube.

All the gaskets I get at the local shop are the grey style, which I believe is the graphite impregnated.



> If you don't mind Im gonna throw up some of my damper regasket pics that I did from rear (what a PIA thank god from dremels!!)
> 
> I might have lucked out on ebay tbh... I know for sure I paid $30 though.


 
Go for it.


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## Reckless (Aug 26, 2013)

I mean this, notice the color variation.


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## jharkin (Aug 27, 2013)

Slow progress still. Really just trying to do too many things at once right now, still have chaos in the house with the kids, plus I just got a fresh load of wood in that I'm trying to process and stack. Top it all off, yesterday a freight truck delivered 500lb of 8ft boxes to my garage - a new backyard playset kit for the kids that I'm trying to get built by the end of the upcoming long weekend.

I'm trying to also keep progress moving on this but at this point I dont expect to have it done before I leave for China in 2 weeks (work trip). Goal will be to have it done by Oct. 1.

Anyway, latest news. I took a look at the door glass hardware. The screws are all #10-24. And I noticed that one of them did shear off after all leaving a stub I will have to drill out and tap. I take back my earlier warning about tapping, turns out the holes I thought where shallow are through holes into the gasket channel and some of the others are in a really thick part of the door casting. So you probably can get a tap in there, or at worst have to drill through and just patch the hole with furnace cement at the very worst.

I went through my hardware bins. In my RC hardware organize I have a set of various length #10 SHCS and a tap... except..... its all #10-32!  So today its off to the local hardware store to see if they have the sizes I need. Hope I dont have to mail order 5 screws.


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## jharkin (Aug 27, 2013)

UPDATE:
Hardware store is out of 10-24 taps. All their non-stainless hardware is either galvanized or zinc plated - neither of which I suspect is good for the CAT. Also they dont have any 10-24 shorter than 3/8. I would go stainless but Ive heard of issues with it not standing up to the heat or galling in cast iron. So what to do....

I looked and Woodmans carries the glass screws for $5 a piece!! (seriously?)

So instead I will but them from Amazon Supply a.k.a smallparts.com. I have to buy in lots of 100, but 100 screws are $6, with free 2 day shipping to prime members. I'm getting new glass screws and new 1/4 bolts for the sides and fireback. All in plain steel black oxide. If anyone is rebuilding a VC and needs extra hardware I'll send you some for the price of a stamp!

One side benefit of ordering though amazon is that I was able to get hex drive button head screws for the glass to replace the phillips. Easier to remove without stripping the next time....


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## Reckless (Aug 27, 2013)

jharkin said:


> If anyone is rebuilding a VC and needs extra hardware I'll send you some for the price of a stamp!


 
Ill take some of those glass bolts  Window gaskets are next for me.


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## Defiant (Aug 27, 2013)

jharkin said:


> So instead I will but them from Amazon Supply a.k.a smallparts.com. I have to buy in lots of 100, but 100 screws are $6, with free 2 day shipping to prime members. I'm getting new glass screws and new 1/4 bolts for the sides and fireback. All in plain steel black oxide. If anyone is rebuilding a VC and needs extra hardware I'll send you some for the price of a stamp!


Sorry guys, another off shore fishing trip coming up, I'll take some screws. I have plenty of gasket I could send in return. I have about 300 ft of 5/16ths, 500 ft of 3/8ths and about 200 ft of 3/16ths that I use for glass.
Sorry for my absence the season (fishing) will end too soon.


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## begreen (Aug 27, 2013)

You'll want to use a flat bottom tap instead of a taper tap for those screws.


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## Reckless (Aug 28, 2013)

Defiant said:


> Sorry guys, another off shore fishing trip coming up, I'll take some screws. I have plenty of gasket I could send in return. I have about 300 ft of 5/16ths, 500 ft of 3/8ths and about 200 ft of 3/16ths that I use for glass.
> Sorry for my absence the season (fishing) will end too soon.


 
Which gasket have you used most? 5/16 Im guessing?


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## jharkin (Aug 28, 2013)

begreen said:


> You'll want to use a flat bottom tap instead of a taper tap for those screws.


 
Doh!  Excellent point BG. I was thinking only in terms of fitting taper tap's because those are all that my local hardware keeps in stock.


Defiant, Reckless I'll send a pm


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## jharkin (Aug 28, 2013)

Took a break last night to catch up watching all the recorded back episodes of Top gear on the DVR. Kids decided to sleep.

Tonight I'm back at the stove. Spent time cleaning out the gasket channels on the doors. I hadn't intended to do the door gasket at first (only 2yr old) but its lifting in a few spots and Defiant was kind enough to trade me extra for some bolts so what the heck. In removing it I found that what I thought was a bolt stub in one hole was actually gasket glue - a couple of the window bolt holes are through drilled into the center gasket channel.

This work went fast. Unlike the inner side gasket channels that took hours, these door gaskets I had done before with just enough glue and it only took 5 min each to clean them up.






The door is marked up a bit at the front and I took off some paint around the edges cleaning it so decided it would be a good idea to give it a fresh coat of paint while the glass is out. A quick wipe down and coat of paint only took ~10 min. Much easier and less messy to brush it on.... and man this has got to be the fastest drying paint Ive ever seen.




Tomorrow the new hardware arrives to I'm hoping to get the glass reinstalled, gasket the doors and put them back on the stove before the long weekend. After that family will be arriving and I need to start building the kids swingset so this might be it till I get back from my work trip.


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## Reckless (Aug 28, 2013)

Flue collar supposed to look like this or should I wire wheel more?


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## jharkin (Aug 28, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Flue collar supposed to look like this or should I wire wheel more?


 
Can you back up the camera and take a picture showing the entire part? Hard to tell what Im looking at...

Sure I see a lot of rust scale there, but it shouldn't be a problem as long as its not a mating surface where it fits against another part or gasket.


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## Reckless (Aug 28, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Can you back up the camera and take a picture showing the entire part? Hard to tell what Im looking at...
> 
> Sure I see a lot of rust scale there, but it shouldn't be a problem as long as its not a mating surface where it fits against another part or gasket.


 
It mates against nothing but dry side gasket. I also noticed a crack on the back of the stove where the flue collar attaches. I guess when I go to rebuild this I will be spending some cash


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## jharkin (Aug 29, 2013)

Reckless said:


> It mates against nothing but dry side gasket. I also noticed a crack on the back of the stove where the flue collar attaches. I guess when I go to rebuild this I will be spending some cash


 
The cracked back casting is definitely a problem, sorry to hear that. If you can find a good welding shop that knows how to weld cast iron it might be fixable, but then your enamel needs work too.  Might be easier to just replace it?

For the flue collar i'd try to grind that rust scale down as smooth as you can without digging into clean metal too much and then try it.  The gasket probably will deform to the texture and seal ok.

What year is your stove?  The nameplate on mine and the installers report the previous owners left says 1997. Seeing the rust on yours and some other big rebuilds Ive seen posted in the past mine look a lot better than average wear wise.  The old owners must not have used it that much. Interesting thing is when we bought the place they told me they "burned 5 cords a year"  but in this tiny house and considering how small their woodshed was I think they were confused and talking face cords.


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## Reckless (Aug 29, 2013)

jharkin said:


> The cracked back casting is definitely a problem, sorry to hear that. If you can find a good welding shop that knows how to weld cast iron it might be fixable, but then your enamel needs work too. Might be easier to just replace it?
> 
> For the flue collar i'd try to grind that rust scale down as smooth as you can without digging into clean metal too much and then try it. The gasket probably will deform to the texture and seal ok.
> 
> What year is your stove? The nameplate on mine and the installers report the previous owners left says 1997. Seeing the rust on yours and some other big rebuilds Ive seen posted in the past mine look a lot better than average wear wise. The old owners must not have used it that much. Interesting thing is when we bought the place they told me they "burned 5 cords a year" but in this tiny house and considering how small their woodshed was I think they were confused and talking face cords.


 
Well the enamel is terrible because no chimney cap and no block off plate so once the piece of insulation he had stuffed in the fireplace flue got wet it dripped on the stove, and the crack I think has been that way. You think it will be ok for this season? The gasket and flue collar covers almost most all the crack .... I know I probably shouldn't


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## jharkin (Sep 2, 2013)

Reckless said:


> You think it will be ok for this season? The gasket and flue collar covers almost most all the crack .... I know I probably shouldn't



To be honest I haven't dealt with cracks before so I dont know..... Maybe defiant can give us an opinion..


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## jharkin (Sep 2, 2013)

So, things have been busy around here, The holiday long weekend started off great, I built the swingset for the kids, but then everything went downhill -  the kids got sick, then I got sick, and its been a monsoon rain for 3 days 

On top of that my order for new door hardware got messed up by amazon... twice...  Now I have 200 10-24x1 screws and no 10-24x3/8 which is the size I most need.  They are promising to overnight the right stuff to me tomorrow, so I'm still hoping to get the windows and doors gasketed and back on the stove before I get on the plane to China this weekend.

Maybe.

On a positive note, Defiant was very kind to send me some 3/8 gasket and I did make a little progress today, getting the side panels gasketed. I also did rip out and redo the damper gasket.  Unfired gasket glue is a real pain to remove!


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2013)

Sorry to hear the family got sick. Hope you all get better soon. 

You can cut the screws down to size with a stripper/screw cutter like this tool.

http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-2078309-Stripper/dp/B000JNNWQ2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1378146403&sr=8-2&keywords=wire strippers


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## jharkin (Sep 2, 2013)

Not a bad idea, I have one of those... I've also used dremel cutoff wheels to cut screws before... I just though (silly me ) that for $5 i d just buy the right screws.. If I had known..........


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## fortuna1 (Sep 3, 2013)

Removed the old Fisher Grandpa, replaced the brick floor with slate, covered brick wall with American Clay, and installed the regasketed Encore last week. Thanks everyone for your help.


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## ToltingColtAcres (Sep 3, 2013)

Reckless said:


> I also noticed a crack on the back of the stove where the flue collar attaches.


 
Interesting. I ran into a similar issue w/ my non-cat Encore earlier this summer, which prompted me to decide to ditch the stove and go w/ a Jotul F55 instead. See my thread at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/defiant-encore-1450-non-cat-repair.110926 

Near as I can tell, my refractory started to disintegrate -- especially on the left side of the stove (as you face the doors) which exposed the rear cast iron directly to combustion flame. Since it was covered by a heat-shield I never saw it getting excessively hot in that particular corner -- as far as I know the stove was never overfired, but I inherited it. 

Now my 1450 sits in pieces and I may expend money at some point to rebuild it on my own time, but with the refractory replacement costing $300 and the rear casting likely costing $300, I think it'll be a while before I dump any significant cash into it.

Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack, was wondering if the source of your crack was likewise a disintegrating refractory.


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## Reckless (Sep 3, 2013)

ToltingColtAcres said:


> Interesting. I ran into a similar issue w/ my non-cat Encore earlier this summer, which prompted me to decide to ditch the stove and go w/ a Jotul F55 instead. See my thread at https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/defiant-encore-1450-non-cat-repair.110926
> 
> Near as I can tell, my refractory started to disintegrate -- especially on the left side of the stove (as you face the doors) which exposed the rear cast iron directly to combustion flame. Since it was covered by a heat-shield I never saw it getting excessively hot in that particular corner -- as far as I know the stove was never overfired, but I inherited it.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think so, but cant be certain either. My refractory does need to be replaced but it is still in useable shape. I think the cracks are from the previous owner over firing the stove personally.


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## fortuna1 (Sep 4, 2013)

When I replaced the catalyst, I noticed one of the refractory side walls where it sits was a bit unstable. I don't think it's going to affect the stove function because of where it is, but I'll keep an eye on it. I was surprised the front of the refractory was held in by what seemed like drywall screws (!). Anyway, I'm excited to fire it up in a month or so.

I'm new to this stove and never burned with a catalyst. Do you find it functions better with smaller splits? Or larger logs/pieces?

Also, when I open the ash door, it doesn't open how I would expect. Kind of flops down and out, but when I close it after lifting it and adjusting, it's solid against the gasket and tight. Normal?


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## Reckless (Sep 5, 2013)

fortuna1 said:


> When I replaced the catalyst, I noticed one of the refractory side walls where it sits was a bit unstable. I don't think it's going to affect the stove function because of where it is, but I'll keep an eye on it. I was surprised the front of the refractory was held in by what seemed like drywall screws (!). Anyway, I'm excited to fire it up in a month or so.
> 
> I'm new to this stove and never burned with a catalyst. Do you find it functions better with smaller splits? Or larger logs/pieces?
> 
> Also, when I open the ash door, it doesn't open how I would expect. Kind of flops down and out, but when I close it after lifting it and adjusting, it's solid against the gasket and tight. Normal?


 
That's kind of how my ash door is too, I have to push up on the ash pan a little to clear the lip to close. This stove will run on anything you throw at it as long as it has low moisture content, but the thing I found is that the longer the splits the better burn times you will get (stove can take up to 20" length). If youre forced to use shorter splits (like I did last year 14") then pile it to one side of the box up against the wall and it will help extend your overnight times.


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## jharkin (Sep 5, 2013)

Reckless said:


> That's kind of how my ash door is too, I have to push up on the ash pan a little to clear the lip to close.



Same experience, I have to push up on the handle very slightly to fully seat the door as I latch it. Its just an artifact of the way the weight of that long door hangs of the very short hinge.




fortuna1 said:


> I'm new to this stove and never burned with a catalyst. Do you find it functions better with smaller splits? Or larger logs/pieces?





Reckless said:


> This stove will run on anything you throw at it as long as it has low moisture content, but the thing I found is that the longer the splits the better burn times you will get (stove can take up to 20" length).



Yeah, I like to have either a mix of 20s and 16s or all 16s. If you have the 20s they will fill the lower box nicely but then you'll need a couple shorter splits to top off the box for an overnight load. If you have only 16s, do like Reckless, start loading everything to one side, then you can put a couple 16s in vertical on the opposite side to fill the unused space. Its also good to keep a pile of shorts and uglies around for this stove, to fill all the nooks and crannies of the unusual shaped firebox. 

Don't be afraid to fill it to within 1/2inch of the top load door for an overnight load, once you are comfortable with how it burns on medium loads and have confirmed everything is tight. One rule of thumb I follow however is - bigger the load, bigger the splits.  This is *not* a blaze king , filling it to the roof with kindling size pieces or 2x4s will overwhelm the cat with too much off-gassing and overfire.

If you want max heat output run half loads or less of smaller pieces so you can keep the air open and get more flame without overfiring the cat. Long term slow burns, pack as tight as you can with the largest splits you have.


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## CTPipeDream (Sep 5, 2013)

The stove is designed so the ash door drops down. It is a type of built in safety mechanism. The seal between the ash door and the drop is very important, if that seal is not very good the stove could overfire. The door dropping down forces you to lift up and tighten the door securely every time. This is how the stove was engineered. Every encore does this not just yours.


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## Reckless (Sep 5, 2013)

Another question on the flue collar. I am in the process of sanding and painting my chimney pipe and I think I need to replace it. Will this one work? http://www.amazon.com/Heat-fab-Stovepipe-Straight-Vermont-Castings/dp/B002VFEB7K
I measure 10.25 x 5.25 on my collar opening..... anyone one know of a better oval to round pipe?


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## jharkin (Sep 5, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Another question on the flue collar. I am in the process of sanding and painting my chimney pipe and I think I need to replace it. Will this one work? http://www.amazon.com/Heat-fab-Stovepipe-Straight-Vermont-Castings/dp/B002VFEB7K
> I measure 10.25 x 5.25 on my collar opening..... anyone one know of a better oval to round pipe?



Are you running 8 inch pipe all the way to the cap?  If the main chimney were 6 inch you can get an alternate iron flue collar to connect directly without the oval to round adapter.  That is how my stove is setup.

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/170580/products/Vermont-Castings-Flue-Collar.html


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## Reckless (Sep 5, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Are you running 8 inch pipe all the way to the cap?  If the main chimney were 6 inch you can get an alternate iron flue collar to connect directly without the oval to round adapter.  That is how my stove is setup.
> 
> http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/170580/products/Vermont-Castings-Flue-Collar.html


 The pipe goes up the open chimney about 3' no liner.... that's the way I inherited it and the way it will stay till next year when I replace the stove. Im just looking for an oval to round adaptor for cheap so I don't have to waste $80-90.


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## jharkin (Sep 5, 2013)

Got some packing done, so managed to find a bit of time this evening to work.  Still hoping to get the doors reinstalled before I leave Saturday at o-dark-thirty.

Did the window glass tonight.  This took about 45 minutes, I was working slow and careful.


First we lay out our weapons of choice...





Another thanks here to Defiant for sending me some extra gasket. The woodman's kit included window gasket but just barely enough - I would have had to stretch it out a bit to make enough. Its nice to have extra.

A little effort and we are done.





The tape is to remind me that I need to adjust/trim the screws by the center gasket channel before I install the main door gasket. the socket head screws are a lot easier to work with and I gooped them up good with copper anti-seize so the next guy to have to take this beast apart wont have a hard time.


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## jharkin (Sep 6, 2013)

Alright, doors gasketed, handle polished and reinstalled. That's it till I get back from my trip.


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## begreen (Sep 6, 2013)

Looking good. Have a safe trip!


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## jharkin (Sep 7, 2013)

begreen said:


> Looking good. Have a safe trip!



Thanks.   Seeing the freshly painted door is tempting me to repaint the entire stove.... Im trying to resist however, dont want to put up with the stink when I fire it up.


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## begreen (Sep 7, 2013)

Had the same thought. I would paint it and fire it up a few times outdoors with a temp flue.


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## jharkin (Sep 8, 2013)

Call me lazy, but I don't want to get into moving this beast outside. Bunch of steps and narrow doorways to get through with minimal help.

I will probably just do the top and doors, rest of the paint is very good.How bad is the smell the first time new paint is fired? Would I be ok if I fire it once in mild weather with the windows open/window fan going?

-Jeremy
[sent from 7000 miles and 12 hours away]


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## begreen (Sep 8, 2013)

Yes, you can fire it off inside on a mild day. You should do a couple smaller break in fires first. Then a medium fire getting the stove to about 500F on the stovetop. It may take on more hot fire, stove top at 550-600F to fully bake it. Having windows open and a fan going will help a lot. The biggest stink will be that first 500F fire.


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## jharkin (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok, back from China and the mrs had a surprise waiting for me...




And a list of fall honey do's that include repainting the upstairs bedroom so we can move the twins out of the nursery and up to the second floor! Better get cracking!


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## begreen (Sep 16, 2013)

Aw, that's pretty darn nice. She's a winner.


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## jharkin (Sep 16, 2013)

So, we are into the home stretch here.  Last big job is to cleanout the interior so I can pop in the new refractory and cement the upper fireback back into place.  That's going to be a messy, noisy, royal pain of a job so its going to wait for a weekend when my wife is willing to take the kids out for a while and let me make a mess of the living room.

In the meantime I figured since I was doing so much work might as well give the entire stove a once over.  This evening I took the griddle out to the garage and gave it a good wire brush polish. A lite wipe down with vegetable oil and it looks better than new. For good measure I polished up the handle and removed/reinstalled all the bolts with anti-sieze to make sure nothing was frozen up.  Yes I am anal. 




Hmmm. Looks so good now I have to repaint the stove top to hide those rust stains.


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## begreen (Sep 16, 2013)

Paint the whole thing to show off your good work. You know you want to and it won't take that much more time.


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## jharkin (Sep 16, 2013)

begreen said:


> Paint the whole thing to show off your good work. You know you want to and it won't take that much more time.



Yeah i was heading that way.  It will take all of 10 minutes with the brush on stuff.


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## Reckless (Sep 17, 2013)

Having a real hard time getting the doors adjusted. I can see into the stove on the bottom left door where the glass screw mount passes the right door. Any suggestions? I can post pics if needed.


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## Reckless (Sep 18, 2013)

whelp got it up and running  Nice video of the secondaries in action and my friend gasping in amazement LOL


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## begreen (Sep 18, 2013)

It's great that you guys are keeping these beautiful stoves alive.


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## jharkin (Sep 20, 2013)

Alright BeGreen, I did it. Painted the stove.

Well actually not the entire stove, just the most visible and beat up areas, hoping to minimize the fumes when I burn in. I put a big box fan in the window blowing out for a couple hours and didn't really smell up the place at all.

I painted the top, front, sides and flue collar. Not bothering with the back, nor the ashlip, legs and ash door that never stay clean anyway.


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## jharkin (Sep 20, 2013)

Reckless said:


> whelp got it up and running  Nice video of the secondaries in action and my friend gasping in amazement LOL




Lookin good reckless!!


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## begreen (Sep 20, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Alright BeGreen, I did it. Painted the stove.
> 
> Well actually not the entire stove, just the most visible and beat up areas, hoping to minimize the fumes when I burn in. I put a big box fan in the window blowing out for a couple hours and didn't really smell up the place at all.
> 
> ...



Yowsa, lookin' sharp there Jeremy.


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## jharkin (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks BG.  Its a shame VCs are so finicky, cause they do look so nice... And as great as the various enamels look I do love how easy it is to keep flat black looking new.... No worry about chipping.


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## Reckless (Sep 21, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Lookin good reckless!!


 
Thanks! Everything sealed up tight and no smoke in the house at all (I was worried about the flue collar). I kept the block off plate off for the first burn but now its stuffed and back in place ready for the cold weather to come (70's for the next week here  )



jharkin said:


> Alright BeGreen, I did it. Painted the stove.
> 
> Well actually not the entire stove, just the most visible and beat up areas, hoping to minimize the fumes when I burn in. I put a big box fan in the window blowing out for a couple hours and didn't really smell up the place at all.
> 
> I painted the top, front, sides and flue collar. Not bothering with the back, nor the ashlip, legs and ash door that never stay clean anyway.


 
Looks good! What paint did you use? Rutland? I used Rutland high temp on my stove pipe and got NO smell what so ever. Also I see your stove is as close as mine is to your wood floor, I know my floor gets pretty hot, hows yours?


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## jharkin (Sep 21, 2013)

Rutland hi temp in the brush on can. Used a throwaway foam brush to apply, no mess and dries in minutes.

Yes, the floor is only a few inches in front of the ash lip. We have a felt backed metal hearth pad that I store in the summer and put out before I light it up, its actually noted on the fire department  inspection report from the original install.


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## Reckless (Sep 21, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Rutland hi temp in the brush on can. Used a throwaway foam brush to apply, no mess and dries in minutes.
> 
> Yes, the floor is only a few inches in front of the ash lip. We have a felt backed metal hearth pad that I store in the summer and put out before I light it up, its actually noted on the fire department  inspection report from the original install.


I used the spray can variety. Interesting point on the hearth pad... maybe I should look into one of those, there are some burn marks in the wood (previous owner) and these are reclaimed wide plank pine . Do they make one you can roll out?


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## jharkin (Sep 22, 2013)

jharkin said:


> I painted the top, front, sides and flue collar. Not bothering with the back, nor the ashlip, legs and ash door that never stay clean anyway.




As usual, I cant leave well enough alone. All week I walk past the stove and I can see where I didn't paint. So of course today I decided to go all the way and paint the rest.


So make that 15 minutes total time painting, not 10   It took less than 1/4 of a pint can to paint the whole thing.


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## jharkin (Sep 22, 2013)

It looks better in person, the flash reveals brush marks and imperfections you can't even see in normal light.


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## jharkin (Sep 23, 2013)

Better view


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## jharkin (Sep 23, 2013)

Ok so I found some time on the weekend between yard work and car work/ oil changes to start the final interior cleanup.  I got most of the loose buildup off already, now the goal is to remove all the remnants of furnace cement from the upper fireback mounting surfaces  and clean it down to bare metal so the new one will fit and seal right.

Plan will be to dry fit the upper fireback into place before installing the refractory or gasketing. I figure once that's all done I have only one shot to get it right if I'm cementing it.






As with previous jobs, a dremel  with a variety of grinding tips is almost a mandatory tool for this work. I put the shopvac outside with a long hose coming through the window and work two handed holding the dremel in my right and the vac hose in my left. Don't forget the mask and goggles too.



A couple findings...

First off, the lip at the top of the back sating that the top edge of the upper fireback hangs off is actually a half round groove like a gasket channel.* Defiant*, I know you stated before that you gasket the sides of the upper and glue the top edge?  Or could I put a gasket in this top groove and avoid cementing it in?

Secondly a lot of the cement in the vertical seams between the back and sides was loose and falling out.  If i had the luxury of time it probably would not have hurt to take this stove out of the house and break it down all the way but I cant start into that now.  The back casting actually has a 1" flat overlap on the side panels with what looks like a double tongue and groove seal so I'm hoping this is not critical. I will grind all the loose cement out of the channel and lay in a new bead of furnace cement from the inside as insurance however. Not ideal but better than leaving it as is.


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## jharkin (Sep 23, 2013)

And got everything cleanup up nice for the new refractory to fit.


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## jharkin (Sep 26, 2013)

We are getting really close to the goal line now. 

All the painting is done. I even painted the stove pipe stub and tee for good measure.

I did a test dry fit of the upper fireback.  Now that I had cleaned out all the buildup and old furnace cement it actually went in very easy!  Luckily not the swearing fest BBar had to go through on his 0028 - so I guess there was some logic in the design change by Vermont.  


Next up I need to touch up the internal seams with furnace cement and install the refractory. Then gasket the sides of the upper, then run a bead of furnace cement on the top channel inside of hte back casting and bolt hte upper in.

Once that's done the rest of it should be not more than an hours work and we are ready to rock.


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2013)

Ok, making some more progress finally.  I was on hold for a bit with my parents coming up to visit the grandkids over the weekend and a lot of yardwork.

Its also hard to do any work on the stove after work since the kids go to bed at 7pm...

First off time to fuel up for the home stretch...  relieved the local of their last supplies of Oktober'





And finally got around to removing that unnecessary pipe damper.  Should have done it 4 years ago since my pipe is close to minimum, but its a lot easier to do with the stove guts out. (Now I just need a couple stainless 1/4 sheetmetal screws to cap the holes in the pipe)




Hopefully that will help shoulder season draft.


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2013)

Then I finished up the last gasket jobs.




And finally did the last of the cleanup inside the firebox and touched up those rough seams with cement.  No gasket glue this time, real 2100F furnace cement - once it hardens I'll grind off the excess that got smeared around.





Yeah, I know, I cant be sure of those seams if I dont break the stove down completely but I just dont want to tackle that in October.  As best I can tell the cement down in the T&G is still there its just the excess that squeezed out that's crumbling. Anyway I'm going to try it this way and if its trouble the entire stove will come apart next summer.


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2013)

And one last minor fix.  The left side door has always rubbed on closing.  Turns out the door air manifold was bumping the opening.  20 second with the dremel fixed that and she is smooth as silk now 

Have I mentioned yet how indispensable a dremel is for this rebuild job?







Reckless said:


> Having a real hard time getting the doors adjusted. I can see into the stove on the bottom left door where the glass screw mount passes the right door. Any suggestions? I can post pics if needed.



Reckless  - note this photo for the gasket routing on the left door....


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## jharkin (Oct 2, 2013)

Next step is to place the refractory, install cat and secondary probe, then cement/bolt in the upper fireback.  After that the rest of the panels, grate and andirons just bolt in.   Should be down to only an hour or two work left!


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## jharkin (Oct 3, 2013)

Ok, so we are almost there.  I dry fit the upper fireback one more time, this time with side gaskets and bolts, to do a final fit check and check the operation of the damper.  It was a bit tight but some work with the adjuster screw and a lot of graphite spray on the moving parts did the trick.

Then the fireback comes out, refractory goes in, and the two stainless sheetmetal heat shields. I laid a thick bead of cement on the upper groove inside the stove and put the fireback back in.  Its a good idea to wait till you are ready for the final assembly to place the refractory, as the back of the fireback has a beveled/chisel edge that compresses the refractory opening slightly to make a gas tight seal.

Once its in tight, the side panels go in with a little encouragement from a rubber mallet and get bolted down.  New hardware and copper antiseze everywhere.





Then use a small twist drill turned by hand to make pilot hoes for the secondary probe and cat temperature probe, install and hook up the secondary air (I get some closeup shots of  the back tomorrow) and install the new catalyst.  Its a tight friction fit.




BTW, those drywall screws that everyone loves to make jokes about in the VC refractory box where just there to hold it while the glue dries. That front panel is bonded to the box with refractory cement.


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## jharkin (Oct 3, 2013)

Oh $&%#%#%$%$&#


I knew this was going too easy.

So we have a problem. When I put in the upper fire back, in the prcess of manhandling it into place the refractory box got tilted to the left about 1/4 inch.

The refractory box is sealed to the upper back well. Its not far enough out to cause any problems getting the lower to seat properly.
However it is tilted enough that the bottom of the box is not tight to the secondary air channel ribs, which means secondary air meant to feed the cat would leak right up the flue.

Even worse I only noticed after the cement on the upper hardened and I already made the secondary probe hole.


So I have two options:

1 take it all apart, grind off all the non cured cement again, patch the secondary probe hole, replace it all and do it over.

Or 

2 Cut off a piece of the old refractory to stuff into the gap at the base and seal the secondary air channel. 

Second choice is obviously a lot easier and I think would work just fine. I fear trying to rip it all apart and do it right I might just make it worse. Thoughts?


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Some close up shots.  I am SOOOOOOOOO pissed off at myself.  Ive been very careful all along and then I got careless with this part.







I thought about it overnight.  I'm thinking now I should take it apart and redo it right.  I could probably patch it and make it work, but long term who knows how well it will hold up.... and it will always bug me. Its just the thought of haivng to pry and break that upper back loose again and grinding off all the half cured cement (which actually seems worse than  removing the hardened stuff).

If I do, I will mix up a little bit of furnace cement and crumbled up refractory to make a paste to seal up the old probe hole, and Ill use a couple dabs of furnace cement to glue the box in place tight before I put in the upper so it wont move again.


Defiant what do you think?



rrrrrr !


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## Reckless (Oct 4, 2013)

Wow Jeremy Im sorry to hear that man. You're talking at least another 3 hours of work no? What caused that to happen and how can I avoid it when I do my rebuild?


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Yeah, probably a couple hours.  I need to undo the bolts and pry the upper fireback to break loose the cement bond at the top, wiggle it out (should be easier this time without all the excess cement and creosote buildup around it), then use the dremel to grind off the fresh cement, and put it back in.

What caused it?  The refractory box just sits in place.  The back side of the upper firebox has a beveled edge that presses into the opening of the box, slightly crushing it to make a gas tight seal and also hold the box in place by a press fit. Now the way you put the upper in is you first slide the left side and damper rod into place and then swing the right side in and up - in that motion to push it up onto place it probably grabbed at the edge of the box and dragged it.  

Now its in there so tight there is no way Im going to coax it back into its proper location without removing the upper. UGH.


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## Defiant (Oct 4, 2013)

Sorry to here that Jeremy, the photos show why I lay my stove on it's back raised up so I can lay the upper fireback in and bolt. I hope to have mine done this Sunday.


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Thanks D.

So anyway I answered my own question - took it apart before work.  It only took 15 minutes to pull everything out, and in the process I found that the top edge of the upper wasn't fully bonded to the cement as well - probably didn't put a thick enough bead down. Probably a good idea to redo it.  Filling the probe hole will be easy actually, just cut a small wedge of refractory and stuff it.

I also noticed that the thermostat cable looks stretch out, as if I got it bound when I clamped in the right side panel.   So good opportunity to adjust it, and fix the refractory and upper seal properly.

I'm now guessing that this will end up being an under 2 hour setback.


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Defiant said:


> the photos show why I lay my stove on it's back raised up so I can lay the upper fireback in and bolt.



Drrrr yup its quite obvious now - you can reach into the flue collar and hold the refractory in place!  genius.


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## Defiant (Oct 4, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Drrrr yup its quite obvious now - you can reach into the flue collar and hold the refractory in place!  genius.


Found this to be the best way, gravity holds the upper fireback in place.
Good Luck, it's better to find these things out before you burn it.


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Thanks.  I have no doubt that I can get it right, its just a pain in my backside 

My target all along was to do the break in burns the week of colombus day (I have vacation).  I should still be able to hit that if I dont screw up anything else.......


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## jharkin (Oct 4, 2013)

Looking at it some more, I see that the upper back didnt seal to the bead of cement I laid into the channel (about 1/4")  because with the gaskets on the side it didnt bottom out in that groove. Maybe it is better to just cement it all?


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Drumroll please....

The rebuild is done!  I will elaborate later with more pictures, spending quality time with two sick toddlers right now


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

OK, so after we met last, I disassembled everything and ground off all the old cement.  Then I cleaned up and regasketed the upper again.  




Now I got the refractory box into place again.  This time I notices that when pressed back tight at the top it could wiggle a bit at the bottom.  I know the older models used kaowool strips to seal everything, the 2550 just relies on a tight press fit of the fireback.  I want this thing sealed tight, so I used what I had and cut up some strips of condar catguard expanding gasket to hold it in place during assembly (not too much, dont want to crush the box.

Also cleaned up and places the 2 stainless heat shields.  These are critical - dont leave them out. Its the only thing protecting the sides of the back casting from the direct blast of catalyst exhaust at up to 1,700F.


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Now I put a good bead of cement in the upper channel again, this time abuot a half inch bead! so that I know I will get a good bond. The upper back goes in on the left, get the damper rod through the hole then swing the right up into place.  This time I held the refractory down with one hand while lifting it with the other, and only once in place reach behind the stove to start the bolts.  once its lightly bolted, check that the refractory is in position onle last time and make sure the damper rod moves freely then crank the bolts down.





I know I used enough cement this time because it squeezed out of the joint inside.  Reach in with a finger and smooth it out and remove excess like you are doing a caulk job. Should be good and air tight.

The rebuild notes say the bolts should be snug, not tight. I will leave them tight till the cement cures than back out and re-snug.

A liberal coating of CRC spray graphite on the damper rod at all the moving points makes it work smoooth as butter


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Put in the secondary probe, cat temp probe, catalyst, catalyst acess panel, bolt in the side panels (checking the thermostat cable is clear this time), pace the lower fireback and hammer in the wedges, place the hood, replace the ash grate, and bolt in the andirons.


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Forgot the warming shelf this morning.  Thats done now.



Lookin' good, eh?


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## jharkin (Oct 6, 2013)

Before and after:





Another






BeGreen  or Web, you guys can change the title now to "Encore 2550 Rebuild - Complete"  I'll update in a couple weeks with first fire shots.


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## Defiant (Oct 6, 2013)

Never got to mine today, have a fire going in it's place


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## jharkin (Oct 7, 2013)

*Final Thoughts - Part I*

Ok, so I'll add some final thoughts about the rebuild process and we can keep this here as a reference for other Vermont Castings owners.

*Is this worth doing?*
That all depends.  For me I felt it was worth it because I inherited the stove with the house, Im handy enough to do all the work myself and the hearth is small and would be challenging to find another stove that fit well.  I also only use the stove part time and the castings overall were in pretty good condition to re-use.

If you rely on the stove 24/7, if you have to hire the work out, if you have significantly warped iron, its probably not worth it.

*What should I replace? How far to take the stove apart?*
This is a tough one. It is often recommended that if you are doing this much work you should tear the stove apart completely and rebuild it like new. That's a daunting task I didn't have time for. Nor the rebuild manuals to be sure I did it right. If you are going to do the refractory though at a minimum you have to take apart all the internal castings and fireback.  If any part of the fireback is warped you might as well buy the entire fireback kit, otherwise just replace any parts that are not re-usable.

Note that if you see signs that there are leaks in the outer shell  (difficulty controlling a low burn in spite of good gasket seals, smoke test shows air being sucked in through panel seam, etc) than a full tear down rebuild is a must.

*How long and how much?*
I spread the work out over a couple months. Mostly working a half hour here or an hour there in evenings and on weekends, around work, kids and travel commitments.  If you know what you are doing and work straight though I feel it could be a (long) weekend project.

My total spend was a bit over $400 including a pro-rated warranty catalyst, refractory box, gasket kit, adhesives, hardware and misc supplies. I had all the tools.

*Where to get the parts?*
Your local dealer, or.....

Catalyst - I get mine from Condar.  Can also go to Firecat, etc.
Gasket kits and other parts-Woodmans Parts Plus,  Fergusun Fireplace (Defiant's fav) have the best selections. Some parts are available at Black Swan also. I haven't bought from them but see that Mountain View carries most parts as well.


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## jharkin (Oct 7, 2013)

*Final Thoughts - Part II*

*What about guides or manuals?*

So far I cant find the service manual for the 2550, and from what Ive been told VC wont give it out (they want dealers to do the service).
I do have the following docs which should help:


The instructions for the 2550 Fireback kit install.  Note that it says nothing about cementing or gasketing the upper back- refer to Defiants suggestions earlier in thread.
The manual for the VC gasket kit which should asnwer any gasketing questions and also has advice about aligning the door air manifolds, etc.
The service manual for the earlier 2140 revision of the stove.  The fireback catalyst acess, door glass are all different but otherwise its a good read and provides helpful insight into things like cementing panels and how to properly adjust the thermostat.


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## jharkin (Oct 7, 2013)

*Final Thoughts - Part III*

*What tools and supplies do I need?*

At a minimum:

Shop vac
Straight and Phillips Screwdrivers
Socket set
Allen key set

Couple size cold chisels and a hammer
wire brush
Gaskets, Gasket adhesive, furnace cement, stove paint if applicable.

I strongly recommend:

A Dremel  rotary tool
Dremel grinding bits - the #952 bits are perfect for cleaning gasket channel
Dremel cutoff wheel (to cut new screwdriver slots in creosote encrusted window glass screws and cutting oversize bolts to length)

PB Blaster or liquid wrench
Rubber mallet (for pressing castings back in and settings the fireback wedges)

Copper Anti-Sieze
1/4-20 and 10-24 taps and tap handle

Replacement hardware (1/4-20 x 1" and 1/5" bolts, 10-24 button head screws x 1/4" & 1" for glass) - plain steel or stainless. no zinc!

To really make things easy:

Drill or angle grinder with a couple size wire brushes
Electric impact driver to break stuck bolts
Graphite spray for the hinges, etc


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## Reckless (Oct 15, 2013)

Like I said I didn't get ANY smell or smoke with the rutland, seems you have had the same fortune


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