# Harman Hopper Design...Pellets not falling in from sides



## lessoil (Feb 3, 2009)

Anyone else having issues with the pellets "funneling" ??
If left untouched, the stove will run out of pellets even though 
there are plenty in the hopper.


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## kinsmanstoves (Feb 3, 2009)

lessoil said:
			
		

> Anyone else having issues with the pellets "funneling" ??
> If left untouched, the stove will run out of pellets even though
> there are plenty in the hopper.




Slightly off the fuel topic.

I ran the PC45 out of fuel the other night. There was not a single kernel of corn inside the hopper. This unit rocks.

Going back to pellets in a few days.

Eric


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## sparkydog00 (Feb 3, 2009)

lessoil said:
			
		

> Anyone else having issues with the pellets "funneling" ??
> If left untouched, the stove will run out of pellets even though
> there are plenty in the hopper.



The problem is with the pellets not the stove. I noticed you are burning athens pellets. Since I stopped using these that problem has diminished to almost never. Athens pellets seem to be made out of something other than wood..
80% wood...20 % sticky stuff that binds the pellets!


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## bungalobob (Feb 3, 2009)

I believe it must be pellets as well. I have the P68 and in the two months it has been running, I have never experienced this problem, although there have been posts from those that have. There have been times my hopper was near empty, but no log jams, and a few times I purposely let it go empty to clean and shut down by itself there was no problem as well.


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## trogers (Feb 3, 2009)

lessoil said:
			
		

> Anyone else having issues with the pellets "funneling" ??
> If left untouched, the stove will run out of pellets even though
> there are plenty in the hopper.



There is no way that there can be "plenty" of pellets and they do not fall into the auger...unless your pellets are made of superglue.  With my Accentra I sometimes notice that there are a few pellets (maybe a cup in total) of pellets along the side of the walls, but it's probably only enough for one or two auger revolutions.


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## rowerwet (Feb 3, 2009)

This is a comon complaint with Maxim users, only it is more like 2 or so bags worth not feeding (out of 11) the fix I found is a massaging vibrator like homedics sells at wallyworld. you put it on a timer (ie. hr on hr off) and tie it in the hopper so that it can't get to the auger. Of course Harman hoppers are smaller and the vibrator will take some room, but just a thought.
I am going to try to get the vibrator to run only when the auger does on my Maxim after the temp warms up outside, not an issue for you guys.


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## lessoil (Feb 3, 2009)

NH Pellet Head said:
			
		

> lessoil said:
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Yes there are "Plenty" of pellets.
I'll try to get a picture of what is happening. We are just getting used to taking the pellets from the sides and moving them towards the middle.(Over the auger door)
It may very well be the pellets. I tried 1 bag of the new Athens pellets and didn't see much difference. I will be buying a different brand for next year if I can find em. 
Thanks for your replies!


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## BubbRubb (Feb 3, 2009)

I have experienced the same problem.  My solution is to fill up the stove more frequently.  I'd estimate my "plenty" to be 1/4 bag that stick to the sides.  I'm burning Hamer's Hot Ones and they are my favorite pellet.  Not so sure it is 100% the pellets that are causing this.


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## mlwschultz (Feb 3, 2009)

We also have the funnelling.  I always refill the hopper before we leave the house for the day & again before we go to bed at night (it's usually about 1/2 full at those times, but top it off so it won't run out when we're not there to refill it).  When I refill it I just smooth out the pellets & then fill to the top.  But one night I forgot to refill the stove & it was almost out of pellets by morning, but it had pulled in everything from the sides too.  I'm using NEWP pellets (tan bag with the dark red letters).


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## Steve NH (Feb 3, 2009)

I have a P68, Using Granules pellets and if I run it 'empty' there will probably be 3-4 lbs of pellets still in the funnel.


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## Shortstuff (Feb 3, 2009)

I also had a little problem with my pellets not sliding well in the hopper and I made a post and it was discussed at length with simple solutions.

Check it out here.

Steve


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## kinsmanstoves (Feb 3, 2009)

SparkyDog said:
			
		

> lessoil said:
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Most pellet mills do not use any binding agent.  I would double check your pellets.  I have never sold a single bag of pellets with a binding agent.

Eric


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## sparkydog00 (Feb 4, 2009)

NH Pellet Head said:
			
		

> lessoil said:
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Buy a bag of the Maine Woods Pellets and see for yourself...80% wood...20% superglue!
There would be a hole right down to the auger opening...pellets on all sides. Never seen anything like it.
These pellets are nasty!


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## sparkydog00 (Feb 4, 2009)

rowerwet said:
			
		

> This is a comon complaint with Maxim users, only it is more like 2 or so bags worth not feeding (out of 11) the fix I found is a massaging vibrator like homedics sells at wallyworld. you put it on a timer (ie. hr on hr off) and tie it in the hopper so that it can't get to the auger. Of course Harman hoppers are smaller and the vibrator will take some room, but just a thought.
> I am going to try to get the vibrator to run only when the auger does on my Maxim after the temp warms up outside, not an issue for you guys.



Am afraid my wife might miss it...


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## imacman (Feb 4, 2009)

rowerwet said:
			
		

> .... the fix I found is a massaging vibrator like homedics sells at wallyworld. you put it on a timer (ie. hr on hr off) and tie it in the hopper so that it can't get to the auger.......



Ah....you don't need that....just take an old cell phone, hang it in the hopper by a wire so it's close to the auger, fill w/ pellets, and set it on vibrate instead of ring.  Then just call the number once every couple of hours.... :lol:


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## PJSTP (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm having the same problem with my Harman P38. I've tried wax paper and still have the problem, that is, still plenty of pellets in hopper but stove goes out in about six hours on a setting of 3.5.  I think problem would be solved if some sort of vibrator could be attached with a timer.  I've used pellets from different manufacturers but that didn't make any difference.  It's not the pellets, it's the hopper design.


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## Nicholas440 (Feb 4, 2010)

I have a Quadra Fire Castile insert, and this has been a common problem from the day I got it in 2008.   Most Quad owners will tell you they fill the hopper up, and several hours later  almost all the pellets are stuck on the left side of the hopper.  This is not the fault of the pellets,   in the case of the Quadra Fire stoves,  they have the feed rod right inside the hopper in the center.  This is what hangs the pellets up from sliding down properly.

I have used wax paper, and have tried smooth metal tape on the seams, etc, etc,   and pellets always hang on one side.  If youre away from home most of the day you will come home to a stove that has gone out, and still has about a half a hopper full of pellets.

I seriously doubt that its your pellets thats causing that problem,  but it is possible you have a bad batch. Quad's have a very poor design of the hopper by placing a feed rod right in the center where the pellets must slide  past.  The pellets get hung up on this rod and if you dont open the hopper periodically and shove them over by hand you have a problem.

Im not sure how your hopper is designed, or if it has a feed rod or any type of obstructions that might cause the problem you described but I do know  all Quadra Fire hoppers have a very poor design.

I also think some sort of mini vibrator that can have a timer on it   would be great as this would   "  shake "   the pellets loose and allow them to drop down where they should be. 

There is a thread way back about using wax paper,  tape, and all sorts of remedys to make the hopper surface more slippery and that has worked for some  but did not help my Quad.   You can try smoothing the surfaces of your hopper, a slippery hopper lining wont allow the pellets to jam up as easily.


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## gbreda (Feb 4, 2010)

My P68 does the same thing with certain pellets that have more fines.  They leave a slight film after a few weeks.  Usually not a big deal as most of the pellets end up in the hopper.  There is a definate "funnel" effect as the hopper empties, but I have yet to have the stove run out leaving more than a small amount on the walls.  

This has been discussed on other threads with various remidies from wax paper, to polish such as Pledge (mmmm, lemony smell) to dry graphite 
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/25892/

I am picking up some dry graphite spray to try out.  Make sure that it is DRY ONLY (such as this: http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=MCR1413_0075098551) as mentioned by Meneillys Woodland Products.


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## Lousyweather (Feb 4, 2010)

SparkyDog said:
			
		

> NH Pellet Head said:
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Sounds more like "rathole-ing" to me.....excessive fines act as a matrix to bind the pellets and increase their angle of repose, so they dont any longer fall into the auger chute


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## rickwa (Feb 5, 2010)

i have a P38 that i have burned for 6 yrs and have used several different brands of HARDWOOD PELLETS a total of moree than 20 tons and have never once had a problem with funneling.  when it runs out it is totally empty.


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## Tom Pencil (Feb 5, 2010)

I have been burning pellets for 6 years in my Harman Accentra insert. Never had the problem till this year also. What I have noticed is that the pellets that are not sliding are a softwood (rocky Mountains) but they are also not as shiney as the hardwoods. In the past I have only burned hardwood pellets because of availability. I have tried various brands this year and only the Rocky's hang up in the hopper. I have also mixed a small amount of corn thinking it might help them slide but I cant tell that much of a difference. Maybe try mixing some hardwood with it would help but then thats a pain. As I still have about 3+ ton of the Rocky's left.


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## exoilburner (Feb 5, 2010)

My pellet burner started "funneling" ("bridging") in the hopper and I would find it cold in the morning.  It happened 2 to 3 times a week; frustrating.  Just prior to the "funneling" I had purchased a ton of pellets made by a new mill and was warned by my dealer these pellets were too long and I could return any if there were problems.  I went ahead and burned all of these pellets becaused they burned well.  But had the "funneling" problem the whole time.

The next ton from the same mill had normal sized pellets 1/4" to 1-1/4" long.  The "funneling" problem ceased.  I have not had one "funneling" problem since and have burned 3-4 tons of the normal sized pellets.  My dealer service tech says this is a common problem with too long pellets.


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## freebird77 (Feb 5, 2010)

Try empting it and wiping the sides with wax paper


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## bmorrison (Feb 6, 2010)

I would lightly sand the sides of the hopper down with some steel wool. Shouldn't take much rubbing to smooth the sides down a little bit more.


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## Cincinnati Kid (Feb 6, 2010)

Yes, I have a Harman P-38 and have similar problems.  This is the first year the stove has gone out after burning for several days.  I know it's the pellets (Kentucky Kernal).  Many are 1.75 inches to 2 inches long.  

I think I'll try the was paper trick.  If this does not work, I'll try silicone.  My last chouce would be the cell phone.


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## rowerwet (Feb 6, 2010)

this is also a common problem with Maxim pellet boilers by CB, you end up burning half of the 11 bags of pellets due to funneling. the best ideas I have seen have involved a vibrator that runs when ever the augers are.


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## exoilburner (Feb 6, 2010)

Info from the Pellet Fuels Institute
Pellet Industry Specifics

PFI-graded fuel must meet tests for: 
•    Density: consistent hardness and energy content (minimum 40 pounds/cubic foot)
•    *Dimensions: length (1 ½” maximum) and diameter (1/4” x 5/16”) to assure predictable fuel amounts and to prevent jamming*
•    Fines: limited amount of sawdust from pellet breakdown to avoid dust while loading and problems with pellet flow during     operation (amount of fines passing through 1/8” screen no more than .5 percent by weight) 
•    Chlorides: limited salt content (no more than 300 parts per million) to avoid stove and vent rusting 
•    Ash content: important factor in maintenance frequency 
http://www.pelletheat.org/3/industry/index.html


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## Three3 (Feb 7, 2010)

There's been quite a bit of discussion about this here.  The suggestion that I followed was to vacuum out the dust and then rub down the hopper with Pledge furniture polish.  It worked great.


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## 603BOB (Feb 7, 2010)

I have been running a Harman Advance for 8 years - have burned excellent, good, bad, lousy - softwood and hardwood pellets - NEVER had a pellet stick, bridge, tunnel, "rat hole" or jam.

Burning Rocky Mountain softwood now - best I have ever found.

Must be something in the air if you have this problem.

Have you checked for Radon, Coriolis, or Schumann Resonance?


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## Snowy Rivers (Feb 7, 2010)

Here is a possible solution that wont kill the budgit and wont take much time.

Clean the hopper out completely. Vacuum all dust out too.

Take some 800 or 1000 grit emery paper and go over all the inner surface of the hopper to remove any and all roughness.

Revacuum the hopper to remove any left over dust.

Now, Using a standard auto finish PASTE WAX  give the inside of the hopper a good pollish with the wax, two coats and then shine off all the haze.

This will make the hopper walls much slicker and very well may stop the issue.

I use nut shells in my stoves and have had these issues. The shells are run through a trash fan after they are cracked and the stuff is far different from pellets with the pieces as small as 1/8th inch kernels.

I do the pollish thing once a season to eliminate the "Funneling"

Many stoves are designed for esthetics rather than function and the hoppers can have shallow slopes that tend to agravate the issue.

Keep us Posted

Snowy


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