# Help with dryer venting problems



## CountryBoy19 (Nov 7, 2011)

Ok, I'm looking for ideas here. I know my situation isn't good, but I have to do something.

Current Setup:
Electric Dryer (no gas service w/o major renovation work)
9 foot rise through wall semi rigid AL duct
27 foot run through floor joist space with semi-rigid AL duct
terminates at ground level in a confined space that is inaccessible (under the back deck that is built at ground level)

This is bad all around.
The run is too long (extra resistance)
The entire run is made up of corrugated flex duct (lots of resistance)
Terminates in a confined space at ground level (more resistance)
Termination cannot be inspected.
All duct is concealed except for one interior access point in the utility closet ceiling.

It's currently taking 2-3 cycles of the dryer to dry a normal load of clothes. It takes 3 cycles to dry jeans.

Restrictions on current setup:
The termination location cannot be changed without major work.
Changing the termination location would not decrease the run any with 1 exception


The termination can be changed by running up 9 feet then over 5 feet through the brick wall that is our front porch and terminating right next to our front door.

Lets just say that one isn't going to happen. I'll sell the house and let somebody else deal with the problem before I terminate the dryer vent on the front porch right by the door.

What I want to do:
Replace the entire vent with rigid duct that can be easily cleaned, and extend the duct termination point 8 feet out so that it terminates at the edge of the back deck instead of underneath it.

The problem is that I am NOT going to tear out 27 feet of interior ceiling to replace the duct. I will tear out the wall and a small hole in the laundry room MAX. Everything else will have to be done through the ceiling of the utility room (near the middle of the laundry room and termination point), or through the current exterior termination point. The current flex duct runs through a space between 2 floor joist and boxed in by the basement ceiling and first floor. AKA, a duct can easily slide down the space. The problem is that with rigid metal duct (recommended) you cannot use screws or rivets to fasten the duct, you have to use the aluminum tape. My concern is that taping 5 foot sections of duct together and sliding them along is going to cause a problem at some point. One of the joints is going to let go and it's going to be in a concealed space. That could pose problems worse than what we're currently experiencing.

My thought was PVC or CPVC pipe. It isn't recommended, however, in my area it isn't against the codes for an electric dryer. The main concern with PVC is the static electricity. So would I be able to run PVC pipe and use and internal ground wire? It would make it very easy to slide 1 pipe through the termination point, down the space, and into the laundry room ceiling. Cut the pipe in the utility room and make a joint there connected to a 15' pipe that exits under the deck at another connection to a 8' section that terminates at the edge of the deck. This just seems too easy not to do it. And seeing no better options it is likely what I will go with.

Your job is to convince me that there is a BETTER option. Don't tell me not to do PVC because it's not recommended, because if there is no better option I'm going to do it. I want to know if there are any better options out there.

Do they make rigid dryer vent in 15' or 20' sections? That is the length I need to get the pipe joint to end up in the ceiling of the utility room. Is there any other type of metal pipe that can be used in this case?


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## gpcollen1 (Nov 7, 2011)

Trying to figure out why the rigid pipe would come apart.  For starters, you should only push it into place once, so you are essentially pushing the joint together.  As for if you HAD to pull it, that tape holds pretty darn well and pulling should not really be a big deal unless the pipe was stuck.  Even then, that tape holds very well.


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 7, 2011)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Trying to figure out why the rigid pipe would come apart.  For starters, you should only push it into place once, so you are essentially pushing the joint together.  As for if you HAD to pull it, that tape holds pretty darn well and pulling should not really be a big deal unless the pipe was stuck.  Even then, that tape holds very well.



Multiple reasons...

The longest length of duct I can slip up into the ceiling void is 2 ft because of interference by the HVAC system. I so I either make a 27 foot run with 14 pieces of duct taped together (that's 13 joints that could potentially fail from all the movement). Or I slip the duct pieces in through the termination point and then fish them all the way down to the utility room (15') so I can tape them together them push/pull them on to their final position. That alone is going to be a nightmare. Did I mention there is an HVAC duct running through the portion of this space between the closet and termination point? I would rather just fish 2 long pieces through this space instead of fishing several short pieces.

Regarding the taped joints, it will need to be pushed and pulled at different points and it may have to be fished and wiggled around to pass other obstacles in the void. I don't want the tape joints coming un-done and leaking condensation down on the ceiling. Either the joint comes completely undone and I'm left with 3 or 4 pieces of duct stuck 10 feet inside of a void that is concealed, or it just gets a tiny little hole and it's not noticed until the large water spot appears 3 months later from the condensation leaking down onto the ceiling. Either way, I just want to avoid the hassle and worries of multiple taped joints all together and be certain that the only joints are #1 at the elbow coming up out of the wall, #2 in the utility closet, #3 outside.

I'm just trying to do damage control at this point; keep the condensation sealed in, and use rigid duct so it can be more easily cleaned. I don't see any better options other than that. I've thought on this, and examined it, and done nothing now for over a year. Right now I have part of the back deck torn off and I saw just how bad the termination point was and decided now is the time. It literally terminates right on the ground so it has to be extended out at a minimum to make it accessible and get it higher off the ground. As it is now, I can barely get my hand between ground level and the bottom to even feel if the "flapper" is clogged. And right now is the time to do this fix while the termination point is accessible and it will be easy to slide long lengths of duct in through the termination point.


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## gpcollen1 (Nov 7, 2011)

I gotya but still think doable.  I ran 3 4' lengths from the outside.  Had to tape them together as they went in to old exit point.  Cut the hole a bit larger so it went in better.  Had a similar issue to yours as the exit is under the old deck which is now living space and there is not much room under there.  Then I had to rip down a small section of garage ceiling to get the duct over the copper plumbing and then elbow over, down and into a clean out tee and then through the garage wall to the dryer.  Bottom line is that some ceiling may have to be temporarily sacrificed for this to work...


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 7, 2011)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Bottom line is that some ceiling may have to be temporarily sacrificed for this to work...


I'm trying to avoid that though. It wouldn't be a problem if the ceiling was smooth. I could easily patch it back up. But it's textured ceiling in an interior living space. That makes the ceiling repair much more complicated...

I really just want to keep it simple and run 2 long lengths. That will also reduce the restrictions from the joints.


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## maple1 (Nov 7, 2011)

Facing all that trouble, I think I'd just vent to the basement with a lint trap.


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## blades (Nov 7, 2011)

What is straight up.?


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## smokinj (Nov 7, 2011)

May try pvc pipe 3 inch?


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 7, 2011)

blades said:
			
		

> What is straight up.?



Straight up is the kitchen. Literally, there are a couple options for going up, none of them good.

All options listed from the point where the pipe starts in the joist space (from the top of the 9' vertical).

#1
take a 90 degree turn and go to utility closet (towards current path), take 90 degree turn in closet and go 4 feet, make 90 degree turn and go 5 feet, make 90 degree turn and go up 9' to attic space.

Too many turns, still just as long or longer than current path

#2
90 degree turn and go about 4 feet, 90 degree turn up 1 foot, 90 degree turn out onto front porch right by front door

Don't want termination by front door, don't want to make big hole in brick wall of front porch

#3
make 90 degree turn and go about 4 feet make 90 degree turn and go about 9 feet through exterior wall between kitchen and front porch brick wall, terminate in attic above front porch

This seems like a reasonable option until you consider that routing the pipe through an exterior wall will involve removing one wall surface to remove and re-work insulation in that space. To do that I will have to remove the dishwasher, kitchen sink, counter top, base cabinets, and wall cabinets in that section of wall.

#4 go straight up, bore a hole through the kitchen floor, through the center of the dining room table and through the ceiling and into the attic

My wife doesn't think a shiny metal pipe will add to the decor of the kitchen very well and the large hole through the center of our beautiful kitchen table won't go over very well. Not to mention that she'll never be able to move the table to sweep.


I've considered one of the lint trap things in the basement but everybody says they don't work very well and your entire house will smell like laundry lint unless you close the door, and if you close the door you will have moisture/mold problems. I don't really want to deal with any of those problems.

I really just want to fix the problem "right" and get it over with.

"right" is a relative term here, there is only so right you can get with dealing with an issue like this. There really isn't a truly right solution that doesn't involve major work (ripping ceiling out, rerouting pipe to shorter run, or relocation laundry room to a different area which isn't practical in this house).


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## jimbom (Nov 7, 2011)

Mine is straight up through the roof like a plumbing vent.  Tee on top for rain.  Trouble free for twenty years.  

I presume you have taken apart the dryer internals and cleaned them.


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## maple1 (Nov 7, 2011)

Mine is vented to the basement with a lint trap. No moisture or mold problems. I usually keep a couple of basement windows cracked all year anyway - in the winter it is super dry down there so the humidity does it good rather than bad anyway. In the summer, we use a clothes line most of the time.

Plus it keeps my basement work area and wood pile smelling Bouncey fresh.


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 7, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Mine is vented to the basement with a lint trap. No moisture or mold problems. I usually keep a couple of basement windows cracked all year anyway - in the winter it is super dry down there so the humidity does it good rather than bad anyway. In the summer, we use a clothes line most of the time.
> 
> Plus it keeps my basement work area and wood pile smelling Bouncey fresh.



No windows in the basement. Any moisture that is expelled down there is going to be staying down there.... 

I'm really starting to think that PVC pipe with a ground wire is the best option... I can't think of anything else to make it simple to install and keep it worry-free...


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## jimbom (Nov 7, 2011)

The best option might be to move the dryer.


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## Gary_602z (Nov 7, 2011)

Knowing that you have a problem venting, have you checked your heating element? I believe there are 2 coils in it and if 1 goes bad it will do the same thing. Are you getting good airflow on the outside vent(or did you ever)? (sorry I might have to go back and read the post). If you have good airflow check your element.

Gary


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## fishingpol (Nov 8, 2011)

Gary is right, two coils that cycle on and off.  You can push the door switch in with an empty dryer and see the coils light up through the holes in the back of the drum.  Lint screens get clogged with fabric softener and require cleaning and brushing with hot water every once in a while.


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## Grisu (Nov 8, 2011)

Ever heard of a condenser dryer? No vent and also heats the space in the winter (and in the summer a clothesline does the trick for free  ;-)  ).


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## Dix (Nov 8, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> Mine is straight up through the roof like a plumbing vent.  Tee on top for rain.  Trouble free for twenty years.
> 
> I presume you have taken apart the dryer internals and cleaned them.




+1 on that. We find more clogged lines than anything.


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## billb3 (Nov 8, 2011)

For 1 or 2 loads a week I'd buy an electric dryer and vent into the living space.

For gas I'd slot the ceiling and instead of trying to patch it I'd get some decent maple faced plywood and stain a cover board or mdf and paint it white. Screw it in place so you can get at it down the road.


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## North of 60 (Nov 8, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> The best option might be to move the dryer.



BEST POST YET!


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 8, 2011)

Gary_602z said:
			
		

> Knowing that you have a problem venting, have you checked your heating element? I believe there are 2 coils in it and if 1 goes bad it will do the same thing. Are you getting good airflow on the outside vent(or did you ever)? (sorry I might have to go back and read the post). If you have good airflow check your element.
> 
> Gary


Element is good AFAIK, it is fairly new. I'll check it to be sure. The dryer was cleaned out fairly recently as well. The problem is the airflow in the ducts. There is currently over 1 inch of lint build-up in the flex duct. There is no way to clean a 36 foot run of flex duct without tearing it up. Very little airflow comes out the termination point as it is currently.



			
				north of 60 said:
			
		

> JimboM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like a great idea, but floor plan and house design prevent that without major renovation work. Then I would have a nearly useless room in the basement. The only other reasonable place in the house is a different small room in the basement but running the plumbing in the concrete floors would be a nightmare.

Other than that it could potentially be relocated to the unheated garage. This solution is non-ideal for several reasons to include the fact that there is no plumbing in the garage either so I'll have to do that. And then my wife will kill me because she can't park her car in the garage.


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## maple1 (Nov 8, 2011)

Are you sure you'd have to run new plumbing in the floor to move it? There wouldn't be any plumbing to just the dryer - but that would require carting damp clothes from the washer to the dryer. Still sounds like a better alternative to how bad the current dryer ducting situation seems to be, from what we've heard anyway.


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## Dune (Nov 8, 2011)

I replaced my dryer vent with 4" (four inch) PVC pipe years ago. 
There is a thread on it somewhere on hearth.
Do not use 3", that would be a huge reduction in flow, increase drying time, and increase electric usage.
Not sure about the static thing. 
I don't have a ground wire and have never had a problem, not saying you don't need it, I just don't know.

To re-cap; 4" PVC, NOT 3".
While you are at it, install a cleanout for each run (horizontal and vertical) because over time, lint will get in there.

From the dryer itself, a 4" smoke pipe 90 (elbow) will fit on the dryer outlet, the inside of the PVC will need to bee slightly enlarged to fit over the male part of 
the smoke pipe 90. 

I used a die grinder, a round file (course) would work fine.


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 8, 2011)

Dune said:
			
		

> I replaced my dryer vent with 4" (four inch) PVC pipe years ago.
> There is a thread on it somewhere on hearth.
> Do not use 3", that would be a huge reduction in flow, increase drying time, and increase electric usage.
> Not sure about the static thing.
> ...


Sweet!

I think you've just told me what I needed reaffirmed of.

It may not be recommended, but it WILL work...

I honestly think that all I need is to get smooth (reduce lint collection and air restriction), rigid (make it cleanable) pipe in place and the problems should be solved.

Moving the dryer and leaving the washer isn't going to be an option for my wife. She would rather just run the dryer multiple times vs have her laundry area split up in multiple parts of the house.

But none-the-less all of the suggestions are good. But most of them have already been considered and ruled out at one point or another...


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 9, 2011)

ARGGGHHH...

These morons not only made a run of 43 feet (measured it) with nothing but flex duct, for some odd reason they made the duct come out the top of the wall, make a 90 to pass through a joist into the next space over then go out. So I have an extra 90 in the run and a HUGE hole through the engineered joist. 12 inch joist with 8 inches out of the center leaves nothing but the 2 2X3's on the top and bottom sides. That CAN'T be to code... Now I have a real dilemna on my hands. Do I fix it all? Or just put it back together and pretend I never saw it?

The joist does not appear to be sagging, and I really don't care much because I don't plan on being in this house for more than about 5 years or so.


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## EJL923 (Nov 9, 2011)

If using PVC, make sure it can be easily cleaned with a flexible rod.  My in laws have a 25 ft run which is mostly straight, and has to be cleaned all the time.  I personally wouldnt use PVC for long runs.  It takes longer to heat up, which allows the lint to stick to the walls easier before it is warm enough.


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## bluedogz (Nov 9, 2011)

If I may, 36' is a crazy long dryer vent run.  Adding, what, two 90's in it only makes it worse.  And rigid duct won't make it better for long.  With 2 90's your run shouldn't be more than like 12-14 feet.

I know you don't want to hear it, but moving the dryer is actually an appropriate solution.  Was the house not designed for laundry in the first place?


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## oldspark (Nov 9, 2011)

Put a leaf blower on the end of it, blowing out of course. :cheese:


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 9, 2011)

bluedogz said:
			
		

> If I may, 36' is a crazy long dryer vent run.  Adding, what, two 90's in it only makes it worse.  And rigid duct won't make it better for long.  With 2 90's your run shouldn't be more than like 12-14 feet.
> 
> I know you don't want to hear it, but moving the dryer is actually an appropriate solution.  Was the house not designed for laundry in the first place?



No, it was designed for laundry as far as I can tell...

Built in 2005, cookie cutter housing addition...


I think the problem is that it was designed by morons, built by retards with the absolute cheapest materials that could be found, and wired and plumbed by a bunch of monkeys and apes.... er.... well I won't insult the monkeys and apes, they could have probably done a better job.

Ironically the inspector missed all of the major issues...

There are many design aspects of the house that just aren't well thought out...

The laundry room is one of them. It's in the basement near the front of the house, under the kitchen. Can't go up, can't go forward (porch), must go back or to the side. Both of which are about the same distance but going back lets you run it through the floor joist void.

Anyways, this is going to be somebody else's problem in 5 years. I replaced it all with PVC today. I was able to work the double 90 through the floor joist into approximately a double 45 to reduce drag.


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## ironpony (Nov 11, 2011)

wish I would of read this sooner, hope what you did works out. It will definately be better than it was.
For information purpose...
each 90 degree turn is equal to 10 feet of pipe
your run length is way to long for 4 inch piping
should be at least 6 inch over 20' in length
could run the numbers for you but you are already done


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## CountryBoy19 (Nov 11, 2011)

ironpony said:
			
		

> wish I would of read this sooner, hope what you did works out. It will definately be better than it was.
> For information purpose...
> each 90 degree turn is equal to 10 feet of pipe
> your run length is way to long for 4 inch piping
> ...


I realize that this is a non-ideal situation, and the "fix" wasn't really a fix at all, but going from corrugated flex to solid, smooth wall should at least be a small improvement. And it will at least allow me to periodically clean the duct out to improve flow.


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