# so i have my stove.. what next? how to track down inefficiency in my home...



## par0thead151 (Jan 3, 2010)

i have a 74,000 BTU insert, and it keeps up well enough with the sub zero temperatures.... however that leaves my home(3000 SQ ft) in the mid to low 60's.
my windows are fairly good, as i do not feel much drafting around them, however a few will have their gasket/seals changed this coming spring/summer.
i have looked at my doors and they all seal well.

i am wondering what else i can do to eliminate heat loss?
my attic access ports have insulation on the wood slat that is pushed up to gain access, i have storm windows on the side windows for my front door and a storm door as well. 
i am wondering if it is overkill to plug unused exhaust vents, like bathroom ones that suck out smells and moisture?

i am all ears to any other ideas.
thanks


edited to add: my house was built in 2000. so it is fairly new and efficient in most regards.


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## Hakusan (Jan 3, 2010)

I am not sure 74,000 BTUs are enough to heat a 3,000 sq ft home. My stove has a similar output and it keeps my 1,600 sq ft home at a nice temperature. 

However, if it is a new home, your windows could be your biggest losers. I put plastic and curtains over my windows--big difference. I also hang a curtain over the front door.


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## begreen (Jan 3, 2010)

Close off unused areas that don't have plumbing in them during extreme cold. Maybe consider adding insulated curtains over the bigger windows? An energy audit by a pro with good measuring equipment may also be helpful in pinpointing unseen leakage and infiltration issues.


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## par0thead151 (Jan 3, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Close off unused areas that don't have plumbing in them during extreme cold. Maybe consider adding insulated curtains over the bigger windows? An energy audit by a pro with good measuring equipment may also be helpful in pinpointing unseen leakage and infiltration issues.



i have 2 of the upstairs bedrooms closed off that are not in use.
i also close the blinds in those rooms.
the plumbing is ideal for wood heat, as the floor plan is very open and the only water lines are in the center of the home.


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## ckarotka (Jan 3, 2010)

I second the curtain idea. I have two large picture windows at both ends of the house. Neither of them really old or really new. I bought those energy saving curtains on sale at Walmart for $11 a panel. I can say I noticed a big difference in the feel of the house. It may be darker inside but worth the money I paid. The windows would radiate that cold feeling and fight the radiant heat from the stove. Now the stove wins every time. I'm curious to see how they work in summer seeing as though the setting summer sun (has a direct line through the window) heats up my front room to 86, no A/C.


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## woodgeek (Jan 3, 2010)

I moved into a house 5 yrs ago that was mysteriously losing close to 2x more heat than it should.  The oil company (!) told me I was using too much.  Fixed now, mostly air infiltration and sloppy insulation installation issues that were hard to track down. 

While folks (esp salesmen) beat up on windows, conductive loss through windows is <15% of my demand.  I could see cell blinds on a large picture window, but I'm not going to run around daily opening and closing blinds on 10 windows to save a few percent of demand. If the windows are new, multiple pane and not drafty, I wouldn't start there. 

You need DATA to not waste your time and $$ fixing the wrong problem. 

For a quick fix, I would rec a blower door and IR scan from a local outfit.  Is tax deductible in 2010, should cost a few hundred bucks.  Otherwise--I have had good luck poking around with an IR thermometer, measuring indoor wall surface temps and indoor window pane temps relative to air temp.   Discovered some walls are not as well insulated as others.

Also, new does not equal efficient--builders don't care what you spend on heat--and the quality/effectiveness of insulation installation varies considerably.


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## LLigetfa (Jan 3, 2010)

woodgeek said:
			
		

> Fixed now, *mostly air infiltration* and sloppy insulation installation issues that were hard to track down.


People take the word infiltration too literally to mean cold air leaking in and miss the real killers where warm moist air is leaking out.  The moisture will condense in the insulation reducing its effectiveness.

Get yourself an IR thermometer if you don't already have one.  Also get a smoke pencil.  You can simulate a blower door test by running the clothes dryer and every exhaust fan in the house but it won't quantify the amount of infiltration.


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## par0thead151 (Jan 3, 2010)

woodgeek said:
			
		

> I moved into a house 5 yrs ago that was mysteriously losing close to 2x more heat than it should.  The oil company (!) told me I was using too much.  Fixed now, mostly air infiltration and sloppy insulation installation issues that were hard to track down.
> 
> While folks (esp salesmen) beat up on windows, conductive loss through windows is <15% of my demand.  I could see cell blinds on a large picture window, but I'm not going to run around daily opening and closing blinds on 10 windows to save a few percent of demand. If the windows are new, multiple pane and not drafty, I wouldn't start there.
> 
> ...




blower door?
for my stove?
i already have a blower on my stove so i assume that this is a no go in my case?


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## LLigetfa (Jan 3, 2010)

par0thead151 said:
			
		

> blower door?
> for my stove?


No, for your front door.  It is used for air infiltration testing.


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## par0thead151 (Jan 3, 2010)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> par0thead151 said:
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i will have to give that a try...


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2010)

A 74000 btu insert is not enough for a 3000 SF home in Wisconsin. My stove makes 55000 btu to effectively heat my 1700 SF in moderate wet washington. So don't expect to find a culprit here. Sure, you can make improvements and improve the situation somewhat though but your efforts will only net minimal gains.


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## Berone (Jan 3, 2010)

Contact your local utility company. They often offer or can give you information on a home energy audit, which features the aforementioned blower test. And don't rule the windows out - my next door neighbor has brand new, high efficiency windows. Unfortunately the installer didn't bother to insulate around them and, when he complained about being able to see our around the window, sent a guy over to caulk the gaps. His oil bills went up after he replaced his old, single pane windows.


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## elmoleaf (Jan 3, 2010)

Areas to check for air leaks, preferably on a cold windy day when you can feel drafts. You could also have an energy audit done on your home.
1. Doors. Don't assume that because the weatherstripping looks ok that it's working. Feel for drafts.
2. Windows. Same comments as above.
3. Ceiling penetrations....recessed lights, electrical boxes, attic hatch, bathroom fans (Make sure the bathroom fan is vented to house exterior and that exhaust line damper door is closing when fan is not in use.) Check for gaps around fixture perimeter where it passes through ceiling. Make sure recessed lights are rated for insulation contact...if so, cover them with insulation in the attic.
4. Electrical/switch outlets at exterior walls. Get some insulating foam plates made for these locations and install them.
5. Sill plate junction with foundation wall. If visible from your basement, check this area for drafts. Also check for insulation in rim joist bays.

Good luck.


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## tickbitty (Jan 3, 2010)

I was looking at moisture meters (for firewood) on Amazon last night and they have one that they sell together as a package with an infrared thermometer
http://www.amazon.com/HQRP-JT-4G-Firewood-Moisture-Meter/dp/B000UFI2D2/ref=pd_cp_hi_2
a couple of the reviews on the thermometer were pretty funny with a guy measuring every square inch of his house and finding out which parts of his fridge were coldest, etc.  Apparently with one of these it's a lot easier to find out where your heat loss is.
http://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-52...ermometer/dp/B000TM7HXC/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_b


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## KB007 (Jan 3, 2010)

Not sure what you meant about attic insulation - do you know the R value of what's up there?  We had R20 in ours and added it to R50 and it made a big difference in how warm the house stayed.  One thing I do is apply draft stop (removable silicone caulking) to all the windows that I don't ever open in the winter.  I leave a couple, but the rest all get sealed - and there are all double pane quality windows.

I second the idea of a home energy audit.  We had one done 3 years ago and the reco's were very diffferent from what I was expecting.  That's why we added the attic insulation.  Check your local tax rules to see if it's tax deductible and / or if any of the changes you make qualify for any tax credits or any other programs.


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## woodgeek (Jan 4, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> A 74000 btu insert is not enough for a 3000 SF home in Wisconsin. My stove makes 55000 btu to effectively heat my 1700 SF in moderate wet washington. So don't expect to find a culprit here. Sure, you can make improvements and improve the situation somewhat though but your efforts will only net minimal gains.



I agree completely--I think for a house that size, a 74 kBTU/h demand (if nominal ratings are true) at ~0°F is not too shabby.  Still, I suspect that if he hasn't already, the OP can find some low hanging fruit to reduce his demand for rather little effort and expense. A professional audit could help provide a cost/benefit analysis for various insulation/in(ex)filtration sealing projects.  Better than stabs in the dark.

If by some chance his builder did an outstanding job, the OP is out a few hundred bucks to sleep well at night and not waste his time faffing around with unneeded home improvements.


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## rickw (Jan 4, 2010)

My favorite insulation game is looking at rooftops (mine included of course) and how much snow is on them. It doesn't take long to figure out who has good attic insulation, and even where there are problems.


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## Berone (Jan 4, 2010)

rickw said:
			
		

> My favorite insulation game is looking at rooftops (mine included of course) and how much snow is on them. It doesn't take long to figure out who has good attic insulation, and even where there are problems.



We had our roof deck sprayed with foam. The following winter, for the first time, there was snow on our roof. Made me so happy!


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## velvetfoot (Jan 4, 2010)

As far as stack effect, I was changing the smoke detectors on the second (and highest) floor today (outside temp 5F), and when I took the old ones off a bunch of cold air constantly streamed in.  Is this telling me something? 
I just recently put some of those kid proofing plugs on the outside wall outlets.  There was a surprising amount of air coming through there.
Of course, if you get the place too tight, someone will say you 'need' a fan of some sort to exchange air.


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## elmoleaf (Jan 4, 2010)

rickw said:
			
		

> My favorite insulation game is looking at rooftops (mine included of course) and how much snow is on them. It doesn't take long to figure out who has good attic insulation, and even where there are problems.


That's funny, I do the same thing. Sometimes you can see snow lines where the rafters have kept the roof colder and the snow has melted elsewhere. Or, you'll see a partially finished attic, with snow on the roof halfway up, and no snow higher up....meaning they didn't add enough insulation above their ceiling. One house I saw had snow on all the eaves and rakes, which hang out into space and stayed cold, while snow melted on all the roof above living spaces.


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## brink (Jan 4, 2010)

We just had insulated vynil siding installed on our house a few weeks ago, along with new exterior doors. I was expecting a super warm house. I was suprised to find the house was just as cold as before, until I discovered that the doors were poorly installed. The thresholds were not adjusted properly, and there were gaps along the tops. I needed to run my hand around the whole door to discover these problems despite that everything looked ok. Now that I stopped a number of major drafts, the house is much warmer. It does pay to feel around.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 4, 2010)

Wetting your fingers and cold days help a bunch.


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## mbcijim (Jan 4, 2010)

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/45051/

Check out my thread above for the problems I had in my new home.


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## spirilis (Jan 4, 2010)

elmoleaf said:
			
		

> rickw said:
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This particular problem was addressed by my home inspector when I bought my house--the problem was the soffit vents had no baffles and the fiberglass batt insulation butted up against the roofing boards, killing circulation through the attic.  They say it causes snow/ice to build up at the ends and it can cause moisture infiltration if melting snow backs up and gets under the shingles.  I installed baffles this past fall, and I noticed my roof does *not* have this problem.  I bet the attic also stays colder now... think I will be adding insulation next spring


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## mayhem (Jan 4, 2010)

Definitely go around your house and just feel everything.  You don't know what you might find and the only relevant aspect of the newness of your house is that things like windows and doors are better insulated...but not necessarily installed properly.  

My house wasbuilt in 2002, got my co in 2003.  I'm still finding stuff the builder (or his helper monkey) did wrong.  Example.  The front of the house (in avatar) has three sets of sliding doors across the front.  I've been noticing lately tha the dining room has been unusually chilly (open floor plan great room...the dining area is about 18 feet from the wood stove)...like cold enough that my wife insists I run an electric space heater when we're eating dinner, even though the wood stove is cranking away at 600 degrees.  The other day we had a VERY windy snowstorm, the kind where it drifts up to your kness in really weird places...we had snow all over the deck and the closer you got to the house, the lower the snow got...but inside the slider in my dining room I had about 4" of snow coming in from three locations around the border of the fixed glass and I also found out that there was nothing between the fixed glass and the slider but a piece of wadded up paper!  I could actualyl push my index finger right between the door and the glass and seeit outside.  God only knows how much heat I've lost through this one area, but I wadded up some dish towles and stuffed them into the track and the room has warmed up a good few degrees...its very noticable and I have to beleive that infiltration was sufficient (especially on a windy day) to make a pocket of high pressure that was probably keeping the warm air from mixing readily.

The moral of the story?  Check everything, trust no one.  You'll probably find a dozen minro issues that will improve your situation noticably.  And a hundred more that will add up to less than half the others.


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## Berone (Jan 5, 2010)

Good resource for various insulation products is EFI (http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/21) I got their foam gun kit when I first bought my house and it was one of the best investments I made.


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