# crank seal replacement....how much?



## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

how much is the stihl shop gonna charge me to replace crank seals in my 460?


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

ouch. I'm interested in hearing this if someone knows. you sure it didn't lean you out and ruin your P&C, too?


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

maybe guys here can help me decide to replace em or not?....saw was flooding out on me after runnign it for 20 minutes or so...it was running perfect for those 20 minutes then would die...then hard to start due to flooding....i had the carb rebuilt...its alot better doesnt die on me, but does seem to flood on restart sometimes .......i was thinking crank seals.....any ideas?


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## Nixon (Aug 6, 2012)

Steel town , I'd think that bad case seals would fry your saw , not cause flooding . Could be wrong though .
If its truly flooding ,and the carb is good ,it could be weak ignition .


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

My experience is that bad seals will lean you out (more air into the mix) not richen it up to the point of flooding.

You sure it's still producing spark after its all warmed up?


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

not sure...all i can tell u after it does flood i can clear the cylinder by pulling plug and turning to off position and pulling the cord several times...then it fires right up...how can i check it?


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

My hillbilly spark method check is to have a spare plug handy and just pull your boot , insert spare plug, and hold the plug to the cylinder for ground. This doesn't always work because sometimes it looks fine but is too weak to work under compression.


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

You'd wanna do it right after it died, sometimes intermittent coils cool off and work again.


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

all this talk got me wondering..i pulled the muffler off and took a look at the piston...doent look damaged..but it does look brown..like oil on it..i guess this normal?


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

How old is it? Brown may be ok if it's got some hours on it. Might be a sign of running rich. If its closer to dark brown that's too much carbon buildup on there.


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

let me c  if i can get a pic..brb..


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

steeltowninwv said:


> let me c if i can get a pic..brb..


 
not the best pics











the brown is not really stained its wet....i guess from the flooding is my bet


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## Danno77 (Aug 6, 2012)

Yeah, you are either running too rich (how's your filter?) or you're not getting good consistent spark.

Hard to tell from those pics, but it looks ok from what little of the piston I can see.


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 6, 2012)

fuel filter and line will be replaced next....then i will go ignition coil if that doesnt fix it


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2012)

steeltowninwv said:


> maybe guys here can help me decide to replace em or not?....saw was flooding out on me after runnign it for 20 minutes or so...it was running perfect for those 20 minutes then would die...then hard to start due to flooding....i had the carb rebuilt...its alot better doesnt die on me, but does seem to flood on restart sometimes .......i was thinking crank seals.....any ideas?


 


steeltowninwv said:


> not sure...all i can tell u after it does flood i can clear the cylinder by pulling plug and turning to off position and pulling the cord several times...then it fires right up...how can i check it?


 
Hmmm, If the saw re-fires right after you clear it (less than 5-10 min from the time it dies) then I'm not inclined to think ignition is the sorce of the problem. But a quick check for spark _immediately_ after it dies is quick and cheap to do.

After the carb re-build, are you saying the saw no longer stalls out while cutting but now floods when you try to restart it?

Leaking crank seals will tend to lean out the mixture but if someone adjusts the carb to try and compensate (adjustment will be _very_ finicky) there may be times the saw runs excessively rich.

Those rings look awfully shiny, could be camera flash but they could be worn as well. Steeltown, you've mentioned this saw acting up before and I suggested a compression check. I highly recommend you do a compression test on this saw now with these symptoms.

Steeltown's rprevious thread -
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/stihl-460-acting-weird.87935/#post-1139443

Double Hmmm...... Finicky carb adjustments, shiny rings, stalls when hot, piston shows signs of heat (brown could be oxidized oil) , yeah this thing needs a compression check at the very least if not a complete crankcase pressure test. (which would also tell you if your crank seals were leaking....  )

If the cylinder bore size and piston checks out, you may be in for just a simple re-ring and you're back up and running.


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2012)

steeltowninwv said:


> fuel filter and line will be replaced next....then i will go ignition coil if that doesnt fix it


 
Now how would a clogged fuel filter or a leaking fuel line deliver _too much_ fuel?


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## Danno77 (Aug 7, 2012)

x2 on compression check. I doubt fuel lines or fuel filter are making you run rich, but I never stop people from replacing them if they have it apart.


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## rkshed (Aug 7, 2012)

Crank seals will cause it to lean out. Leakdown test is the way to go on this one to be safe.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 7, 2012)

steeltowninwv said:


> maybe guys here can help me decide to replace em or not?....saw was flooding out on me after runnign it for 20 minutes or so...it was running perfect for those 20 minutes then would die...then hard to start due to flooding....i had the carb rebuilt...its alot better doesnt die on me, but does seem to flood on restart sometimes .......i was thinking crank seals.....any ideas?


 
Is your restart procedure just pulling the rope?


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 7, 2012)

no way to compression test it myself...other than when u pull it it feels like it has tons of compression.....so off to the damn shop it will go...got a dual port muffler on its way...so maybe after its all running right ill be pleased with it.....i can cut wood with it now..it just bugs me its not perfect...now i gotta wonder i had a guy rebuild the carb...wonder if he did it right?..it wasnt the stihl shop that did the carb


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## Danno77 (Aug 7, 2012)

have you messed with the carb settings yourself? maybe it's just set too rich? I wish you were close, I'd lend you my compression tester!


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## blades (Aug 8, 2012)

I will be the upteenth person to say crank seals and or a leak at the jug to crankcase junction will cause a lean out problem, and of course a air leak at the carb  junction. If you have a decompression plunger for starting purposes those sometimes go bad also.


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## kevin j (Aug 8, 2012)

Not to beat the obvious, but is it set too rich?
When does it flood? only when starting? than how about choke and starting technique.
Only when idling after a cut? L mixture adjustment?
Or when cutting at high speed, runnning good, then flood out and die? That is what the post seemed to imply.
What did you do in the carb clean or rebuild?


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## greg13 (Aug 9, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Hmmm, If the saw re-fires right after you clear it (less than 5-10 min from the time it dies) then I'm not inclined to think ignition is the sorce of the problem. But a quick check for spark _immediately_ after it dies is quick and cheap to do.
> 
> After the carb re-build, are you saying the saw no longer stalls out while cutting but now floods when you try to restart it?
> 
> ...


 


After you check these, If it still does it, Just an off the wall thought. Is it possible that the gas tank is pressurized? Possibly from hot weather or even a bad gas cap? I agree that it is something getting hot after 20 min. of running. Ignition systems usually quit sooner than that.


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 10, 2012)

took to the shop today....the said they think it has a air leak somewhere so they did a test...sure enuf leaking around the main gasket..the one the cylinder sets on...so its getting brand new carb...new main gasket...both crank seals...new fuel line...filter....and new handle and rope....then tuned with the new dual port muffler....


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## MasterMech (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm hoping for the best for ya' SteelTown but an air leak at the base gasket doesn't make sense if you indeed had problems with the saw running too rich and/or flooding out.  Introducing fresh air would lean the saw out, not flood it.  Wonder if they're planning on replacing the rings while the cylinder is off?


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## smokinj (Aug 11, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> I'm hoping for the best for ya' SteelTown but an air leak at the base gasket doesn't make sense if you indeed had problems with the saw running too rich and/or flooding out. Introducing fresh air would lean the saw out, not flood it. Wonder if they're planning on replacing the rings while the cylinder is off?


 
I am thinking that means head gasket. (Easy fix but that should have been very loud) Be a good time to sqaush it a bit. There shooting on the easy stuff if its the case gasket?


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## MasterMech (Aug 11, 2012)

smokinj said:


> I am thinking that means head gasket. (Easy fix but that should have been very loud) Be a good time to sqaush it a bit. There shooting on the easy stuff if its the case gasket?


 


steeltowninwv said:


> ... leaking around the main gasket..the one the cylinder sets on...


 
Don't think the 460 has a "head" gasket. Cylinder and the head are all one piece. Only thing that could simulate that type of failure would be a leaking decompression valve or spark plug threads.

I still haven't seen the results of a compression test, which compression should be a healthy 145psi +, and a leaking base gasket wouldn't affect that.


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## smokinj (Aug 11, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Don't think the 460 has a "head" gasket. Cylinder and the head are all one piece. Only thing that could simulate that type of failure would be a leaking decompression valve or spark plug threads.
> 
> I still haven't seen the results of a compression test, which compression should be a healthy 145psi +, and a leaking base gasket wouldn't affect that.


 

Its been a long time since I squash mine. I knew we did not pull the piston when it was changed, but we did make our owen gasket.


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## steeltowninwv (Aug 18, 2012)

got the saw back from the shop friday..ran it a little today...all i can say is wow....it got a new dual port muffler, new carb, crank seals, cylinder gasket, fuel line, fuel filter, and a new rope and handle......runs like a new one...and i love the new sound..


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## MasterMech (Aug 20, 2012)

steeltowninwv said:


> got the saw back from the shop friday..ran it a little today...all i can say is wow....it got a new dual port muffler, new carb, crank seals, cylinder gasket, fuel line, fuel filter, and a new rope and handle......runs like a new one...and i love the new sound..


 
Glad to hear you're up and screaming again!


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