# Iron and Manganese in well water?



## Knots (Aug 1, 2014)

I got my well test back.  Everything except iron and manganese look good.  It's not a surprise since the toilet bowls were staining right away.

Iron is at 3.6 mg/L and Manganese at 0.21 mg/L.  Apparently this is just a taste/nuisance issue.

Anyone else have experience with this?  Can I just filter it?


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## 1kzwoman (Aug 1, 2014)

My BIL had same issues with his well. Would turn my blonde SIL hair red. Good RO system should help you.


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## Clarkbug (Aug 1, 2014)

RO might get expensive if you need to do the whole house.  Ion Exchange (softener) should be able to do the same thing with cheaper upfront costs.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 1, 2014)

I add some iron out to my softener tank and it does some good, but we don't have a huge problem with iron-some, but not huge.


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## Highbeam (Aug 1, 2014)

Knots said:


> I got my well test back.  Everything except iron and manganese look good.  It's not a surprise since the toilet bowls were staining right away.
> 
> Iron is at 3.6 mg/L and Manganese at 0.21 mg/L.  Apparently this is just a taste/nuisance issue.
> 
> Anyone else have experience with this?  Can I just filter it?


 
I had iron/manganese in my well water and beat it. A water softener is not an iron filter, it will remove low amounts of iron but will foul the media. If your water is not hard (mine wasn't) then you don't need a softener.

You probably have some sulfur in that water as well since those three elements are like the three stooges, always hanging out together. The smell of iron, sulfur, and manganese plus each of their bacterial smells are all pretty similar and hard to tell apart. The smell is swampy, septicy, and sometimes eggy.

You are correct that iron and manganese are nuisance issues. It's gross but safe. Your numbers are way too high for a softener to get it done.

Iron removal methods also remove manganese and usually sulfur by oxidizing it from the dissolved state into a solid and then filtering it out. In your toilet (shower, dishwasher, sink) the aeration oxidizes the element and it scales onto your surfaces. Hard to remove and it smells too.

I chose to install a manganese oxide iron filter which uses no salt but I do need to throw in some bleach every week or so to prevent iron bacteria from sludging things up. This filter is the same thing I use in municipal water treatment for large scale manganese removal and not some kind of gimmick. See my photos. I bought my system at http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/iron-manganese-filters.html and have been very happy with the
performance. Self installed of course. In the photo you will see the little side chlorine tank for backwash and the screen to remove grit before the iron filter.

Another option if you have your own well is chlorination (nice to keep things clean) followed by filtration and or carbon filter to remove the solid iron/mang plus the carbon will strip the chlorine away too. I have a community well so chlorination is significantly more expensive.

Take a long read at that site I linked and you will find lots of information. Remember, softeners are for hard water not for iron.


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## peakbagger (Aug 1, 2014)

For what its worth, I used to have major iron/manganese issues from a surface well. After several years of changing filters I had a pump problem. When I installed the well I ran two lines, one with foot valve at the base of the well and one spare that floated near the top. I couldn't get the pump started and through the foot valve was bad. I hooked up a compressor and discovered I was pulling water form the spare line. Once I switched to the deep one with foot valve the iron and manganese were far less noticeable to the point where I stopped filtering it. A few years later I switched to a deep well and it wasn't an issue.

 I am actually waiting for new sample to be tested on the deep well including Radon.


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## Knots (Aug 2, 2014)

Thanks for the input.  My hardness is 92, which puts me in the middle of the moderate classification.

I'm interested in the trade-off between chlorinating and filtering my well versus the set-up you have.

All-in-all this doesn't seem too bad.


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## Knots (Aug 2, 2014)

My pH, at 6.79, is at the hairy edge of what they say will work without other treatment.  Ugh.


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## Highbeam (Aug 2, 2014)

Knots said:


> My pH, at 6.79, is at the hairy edge of what they say will work without other treatment.  Ugh.



So acid water, hard water, and iron/mang. Yuck. Each of your problems is moderate in nature but not mild enough to dismiss. The good news is that you've had your water tested and you know what you're dealing with. Two or three different steps will be needed to get your water in tip top shape.

Make contact with the tech folks at the link i gave you and they will make a recommendation for free.


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## Knots (Aug 3, 2014)

Thanks.  I'm a little worried that asking them what I need will be a little like asking the barber if I need a haircut, but we'll see what they say.  Of course I'd like to get the minimum system that'll do the job.  Maybe I can do it incrementally if I plan it right...


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## Highbeam (Aug 3, 2014)

Knots said:


> Thanks.  I'm a little worried that asking them what I need will be a little like asking the barber if I need a haircut, but we'll see what they say.  Of course I'd like to get the minimum system that'll do the job.  Maybe I can do it incrementally if I plan it right...


Yeah, they sell water treatment stuff so they will be able to fix you up. It's free and their stuff is not gimmicky plus i used them and as an engineer in the water industry i recommend them for you. Nothing to lose. 

I am curious about their solution. Please post back with a follow up. 

I see that you can buy neutralizers for the pH, softeners for hardness, and iron filters for iron/mang. The highest amount of iron/mang that a softener will remove is 2.0 ppm combined and you are like double that. So i can't see how you could do this in steps.


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## Knots (Aug 4, 2014)

The Pro-OX filter says it works at a min pH of 6.8 which is where I'm at.  I was figuring that I could install that filter and see if it takes care of the iron/manganese problem, and then see if I could live with the hardness and acidity.  If not, then I'd add another component to the system.  I'm not this kind of engineer though, so I'm not sure that'll work.  I'll give them a call..

I have on-demand propane hot-water.  I'm a little concerned about what "bad" water will do to that long-term.  I'll keep you posted...


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## Highbeam (Aug 4, 2014)

Hard water in an instant water heater is bad mojo. The scale will supposedly set up on the heat exchangers so you are supposed to do some sort of soak with vinegar to dissolve it.

My iron filter is the pro-ox (manganese dioxide) media. I chose the 1cf size. Though I do not have your pH problems. If you could get the buy off on your low pH with that iron filter then the hardness can be a next step. Maybe even ignore the acidity.

Sometimes the low pH limit is mitigated by some other quality of your water. Sometimes the low pH just means that 98% of iron will be removed instead of 100% or that the media life will be 14 years instead of 15.


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## Knots (Aug 8, 2014)

Had to go away for work this past week.  Sent Clean Water Store my water analysis.  We'll see what they say...


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## Knots (Aug 17, 2014)

Looks like they recommend iron filter, sediment filter, and some softening.  I haven't had a chance to take a good look at this yet.

I don't want to back-wash into my septic, so it looks like I may be in for another small tank and dry well in the yard.


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## Highbeam (Aug 17, 2014)

That sediment filter is just a screeen to protect downstream equipment from damage. Looks like they thought your ph was fine. 

I agree to not send any of the backwash water to your septic. People that do that are making a mistake. I route my backwash water into the downspout system so it dumps to the surface.

I bet you could skip the softener for now if budget is tight.


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## Highbeam (Aug 17, 2014)

Those air charge iron filters do require a daily backwash but no chemicals and are rated for 7ppm iron. The disposal of backwash water could be a problem if you dont have a space to dump it. It will be chemical free waste but could stain due to the collected iron.


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## Knots (Aug 19, 2014)

Time is much tighter than budget.  I want to do this soon, but I want to do it right.  

I wish I could access the footing drain, but that is sealed in concrete now.  So, were talking about trenching, a small tank, and then a dry well.

I suppose I could put the system in and have a temporary drain above surface, and then do the dry well and what-not before the frost comes.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Aug 22, 2014)

You might try talking with neighbors to see if they have similar problems.  If the problem is hit-and-miss, it might be worthwhile talking to a well driller about drilling out of it.  In my area sometimes setting the well screen another 5 feet shallower or deeper can make all the difference in the world.  And, of course, sometimes the iron is just all over.

I would not recommend RO unless you absolutely have to.  As well as costs, RO can remove too much from your water making it "aggressive".   Aggressive water can dissolve your copper plumbing and even leach the lead (Pb) out of brass fixtures.


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## Knots (Aug 23, 2014)

One neighbor has a shallower well with the same concerns.  The closest one is for a horse barn, so I don't know if they tested it or not.  2 miles away a family member has a well half the depth that only requires a sediment filter.

I'm going to avoid RO.  It looks like a reasonable system will take care of it.


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## JTRock (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm very fortunate with my well, I could hook into the city but like the idea of having fresh water. 

I have relatives in upstate NY that have big time sulfer,  You feel like you need a shower to wash off your shower. We call it fart water. 

Hope you can get things sorted out reasonably.


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## Hogwildz (Aug 23, 2014)

Check out the greensand filter systems.
We have the same water round here, and that is what most use here.
Need one myself.


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## Chimney Smoke (Aug 24, 2014)

Did you chlorinate your well before it was originally tested?


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## Highbeam (Aug 25, 2014)

Hogwildz said:


> Check out the greensand filter systems.
> We have the same water round here, and that is what most use here.
> Need one myself.



Greensand is manganese oxide coating a sand grain. The filter he linked above uses solid manganese oxide chunks which last longer and none of the nasty purple potassium permanganate recharge solution that the traditional greensand filters need.


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## Highbeam (Aug 25, 2014)

JTRock said:


> I'm very fortunate with my well, I could hook into the city but like the idea of having fresh water.
> 
> I have relatives in upstate NY that have big time sulfer,  You feel like you need a shower to wash off your shower. We call it fart water.
> 
> Hope you can get things sorted out reasonably.



High sulfur is harder to deal with. Same basic idea of oxidation and then filtration.


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## Knots (Oct 14, 2014)

Just wanted to close the loop on this one.  Didn't have time to do it myself, so I got one installed.  I like this one because it uses "pure" salt - no detergents, etc.

Right now it's backwashing out the window (!) until I can get the dry well in.  Man, that thing uses a lot of water during the back flush.

The softened and reduced iron water is soooooo much nicer.  I can tell the difference in my skin after a shower (cue the old Palmolive commercial).

Thanks for everyone's input on this.


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## Highbeam (Oct 14, 2014)

Knots said:


> Just wanted to close the loop on this one.  Didn't have time to do it myself, so I got one installed.  I like this one because it uses "pure" salt - no detergents, etc.
> 
> Right now it's backwashing out the window (!) until I can get the dry well in.  Man, that thing uses a lot of water during the back flush.
> 
> ...


 
So what do we have here? Looks like a water softener. My system's backwash water enters the downspout system and sumps out onto the lawn.

Is it removing the iron/mang staining problem? That is after you clean the stains, do they return?


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## Knots (Oct 14, 2014)

This unit softens and removes the iron/manganese.  It uses a fair amount of salt for each back flush (every 4 days).  I worry about putting that much salt and iron oxide (or whatever) in my footing drain.

Toilets are clean again.


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