# Fire Chief FC1000/Shelter SF1000 update.



## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

So I installed the new draft blower and fired the furnace back up after a 48hr shift of amazing fun.  

I lit on a clean firebox this time, normally I bank even the cold ashes up the sides.  The new blower while having hole also has the updated slide riveted in place. 












Thermostat is set at 72 and it took 30 min to get an established fire. 






Was harder to get going with the fixed slide.  Stack temps were 600 when I closed it up and immediately they dropped to 410.  Walked outside and it’s burning clean. 






Nothing coming out chimney and good heat from the ducts.  I usually opened the slide and ran it about 550 so we will see.  The true test will be when the heat is satisfied and draft blower shuts down.  I may have to drill the rivet out, we will see.


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 29, 2018)

Also think the test is does it back puff?


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 29, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Was harder to get going with the fixed slide.  Stack temps were 600 when I closed it up and immediately they dropped to 410.  Walked outside and it’s burning clean.



What is your current outside temp?

How much time past from initial lighting to when you measured 600 stack temps?

Do you have a barometric damper installed?

Any chance your monitoring  the draft?


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## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Also think the test is does it back puff?



I’ll find out soon...

It’s like the old twilight zone tv shows...


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## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> What is your current outside temp?
> 
> How much time past from initial lighting to when you measured 600 stack temps?
> 
> ...



Took about 20 min to get going and then I added a piece or two at a time to get the load going.  

No damper installed and no draft monitoring.  I know that is good.


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## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

Holy (whatever they used to say) Batman.  

The stack temps are staying up high enough it appears to actually be burning with the draft blower off.  

Cycled twice with no puffing.  

Unfortunately I have to go to Purdue for a class for work this weekend, even though I don’t think you can get smarter there.  I’ll know more next week but, this looks promising.


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## Medic21 (Nov 29, 2018)

5hrs out of the first load and that warmed the house from 66 to 72.  70 degrees when I reloaded. No puffing on the first load but, that one usually burned with the draft blower going continuously.  Difference is instead of blowing through that load in 2.5 hours with the house jumping to 76-77 it was consistent.  

I will see how it does over night.


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## Medic21 (Nov 30, 2018)

The thing ran all night, no puffing.  Loaded at 2100hrs, was 70 at 0500 when I reloaded.  Seems like it is running too cool between calls for heat but, at least it’s not puffing...


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 30, 2018)

I need to see if they can ship out that draft blower, I would be willing to hook up the old girl and test her out. After all she is still in the same room.


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## Medic21 (Dec 3, 2018)

Well only had one incident of a puff.  Burning low because it wasn’t that cold out and the cold air return got blocked.  Don’t know if it was a puff or if the circulation blower pulled smoke out.  

Other than that it seams to stay burning.  My only issue is going to be when I check the chimney I think I’ll have some creosote buildup I didn’t have before.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 3, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Well only had one incident of a puff.  Burning low because it wasn’t that cold out and the cold air return got blocked.  Don’t know if it was a puff or if the circulation blower pulled smoke out.
> 
> Other than that it seams to stay burning.  My only issue is going to be when I check the chimney I think I’ll have some creosote buildup I didn’t have before.



Is the suspected creosote build up because you’re letting the stove idle and not using the draft blower to keep the firebox from back puffing?


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## Medic21 (Dec 3, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Is the suspected creosote build up because you’re letting the stove idle and not using the draft blower to keep the firebox from back puffing?



It is cooler for extended times than I would run and does smoke some.  Time will tell.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 6, 2018)

New draft blower?


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 6, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> New draft blower?



Yes, HY-C has an updated draft blower design (same shape, with 2 extra holes, might still be in development) that they have shipped out to “some” customers to test.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 6, 2018)

Just bought sf1000 few months ago. Having same problems with draft blower.


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## Medic21 (Dec 7, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> Just bought sf1000 few months ago. Having same problems with draft blower.



So far it seems to be a huge improvement with the new blower.  Only two incidents of it puffing.  Both times dog was laying on the return.

Its been going since Saturday night non stop.  It’s not perfect yet but this new blower helps.  We have discussed adding an additional hole in it.


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## maple1 (Dec 7, 2018)

Not sure if the return being blocked would cause a puff?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Not sure if the return being blocked would cause a puff?


It could if a blocked return was enough to cause a negative pressure on the basement...


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## Medic21 (Dec 7, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Not sure if the return being blocked would cause a puff?



I don’t know if it’s puffing.  I’m thinking it briefly sucks smoke out of the motor when the fan kicks on.  I have multiple ways for the air to pull into the basement but this is directly at the stove.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

Ok, I am 8 days into 24hr operations of this thing with the “redesigned” blower.  First time in a year I actually had to do a hot clean out of the ashes.  

It has performed fairly well, these last couple days and nights have been cold.  Lows at 10 but, no wind.  I’m getting a good 8 hours during the day with the temp holding above the gas furnace for 10 hours.  Stays warm for 6-8 hours at night.  Have had some windy, 25mph-30mph, days that were in the low 30’s and it really did great.  Those are a typical Indiana winter day.  

I am not happy yet with it.  It will be into the 40’s this week and I’ll check creosote buildup then.   I checked the secondary chamber and there was none so that’s promising.  

I did notice that as the ashes built up I was getting more cycling of the blower and I really had to dig into  the firebox to break it up this morning.  So I’ll need to clean it more than once a week to get the performance.  My old Juca was only cleaned every other week for a complete clean out.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 9, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I am not happy yet with it.



I feel the same with the 1500



Medic21 said:


> I did notice that as the ashes built up I was getting more cycling of the blower and I really had to dig into  the firebox to break it up this morning.  So I’ll need to clean it more than once a week to get the performance.  My old Juca was only cleaned every other week for a complete clean out.



I had the same thing today. Under the hot layer of ambers there was at least 1-2” of black ambers that I had to literally break apart.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> I feel the same with the 1500
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same thing today. Under the hot layer of ambers there was at least 1-2” of black ambers that I had to literally break apart.



I’m no longer thinking about returning it by throwing it into the backseat of someone’s car in the parking lot in Missouri.  So, that’s an improvement.

Part of my unhappiness is me.  I grew up with the wood burner in the living room so I was used to that nice even heat with a circulation blower that just rotated the air around the house.  My dad Has a ton of common sense for an engineer.   I know duplicating that would be perfect but the wife does not want a burner upstairs.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 9, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I’m no longer thinking about returning it by throwing it into the backseat of someone’s car in the parking lot in Missouri.  So, that’s an improvement.
> 
> Part of my unhappiness is me.  I grew up with the wood burner in the living room so I was used to that nice even heat with a circulation blower that just rotated the air around the house.  My dad Has a ton of common sense for an engineer.   I know duplicating that would be perfect but the wife does not want a burner upstairs.





Medic21 said:


> I’m no longer thinking about returning it by throwing it into the backseat of someone’s car in the parking lot in Missouri.  So, that’s an improvement.
> 
> Part of my unhappiness is me.  I grew up with the wood burner in the living room so I was used to that nice even heat with a circulation blower that just rotated the air around the house.  My dad Has a ton of common sense for an engineer.   I know duplicating that would be perfect but the wife does not want a burner upstairs.


I went to the dealer where I'd bought my fc1000, showed them the picture of the blower you posted and asked them if they were aware, and they weren't, the owner said he would get in touch with hy-c and get back to me, did you receive the complete blower motor or just the shroud that covers the cage


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## maple1 (Dec 9, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> I feel the same with the 1500
> 
> 
> 
> I had the same thing today. Under the hot layer of ambers there was at least 1-2” of black ambers that I had to literally break apart.



I don't think that is uncommon. I get that with my boiler. Clinkery type stuff. I try to keep a layer of it on top of my refractory - it's been cracked for going on 6 years now and I haven't touched it. Likely mainly because of that layer of stuff I try to keep there.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> I went to the dealer where I'd bought my fc1000, showed them the picture of the blower you posted and asked them if they were aware, and they weren't, the owner said he would get in touch with hy-c and get back to me, did you receive the complete blower motor or just the shroud that covers the cage



They are not aware of it because there have been less than a dozen sent out.

I received the complete setup from them.  Call Nathan at HY-C customer service direct.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

maple1 said:


> I don't think that is uncommon. I get that with my boiler. Clinkery type stuff. I try to keep a layer of it on top of my refractory - it's been cracked for going on 6 years now and I haven't touched it. Likely mainly because of that layer of stuff I try to keep there.



I was never able to run it long enough to experience that kind of buildup.  I think that is a good sign.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 9, 2018)

I think HY-C is in violation of the phase 1 EPA regs at this point...from what I understand (and this came directly from another manufacturer after I made a suggestion about a minor improvement that could be made to their units) they are not allowed to change _anything_ from how the furnace was tested...nothing, nada, zero...not even a label...at least not without getting it retested.
Not only are they (HY-C) making changes in the way it works...but there is NO WAY that these things would even come remotely close to passing the phase 1 test running the way they are running for y'all!


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> I think HY-C is in violation of the phase 1 EPA regs at this point...from what I understand (and this came directly from another manufacturer after I made a suggestion about a minor improvement that could be made to their units) they are not allowed to change _anything_ from how the furnace was tested...nothing, nada, zero...not even a label...at least not without getting it retested.
> Not only are they (HY-C) making changes in the way it works...but there is NO WAY that these things would even come remotely close to passing the phase 1 test running the way they are running for y'all!




I agree 100%. 

From what I’m seeing this would not pass during the idle stage.  They were not allowing enough air prior to changing this that it would have put out any emissions and now if the initial fire has not gotten the wood to the point it is burning clean it will smoke like crazy.  If it is ran for an hour or more with the blower going it will be clean when shut down.  Other than that it is dirty as hell.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 9, 2018)

If they last that long...no way that these units will be around after May 2020. (EPA phase 2)
EDIT: Of course, at this point, nobody but Lamppa/Kuuma will be!


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## Apollo kid (Dec 9, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> They are not aware of it because there have been less than a dozen sent out.
> 
> I received the complete setup from them.  Call Nathan at HY-C customer service direct.


I guess the guy that's being contacted is up the ladder from Nathan, I've been in contact with Nathan quite a few times, followed everything he told me to try, he told me out 3,600 sold, only two others were having these problems, I guess trying to make me
feel like I'm doing something wrong, he never returned my last email, maybe to busy with other complaints. I burned a non EPA stove for 30 years, granted there is a lot to adjust to with these units, but even my dealer agrees it should not take 30 minutes or more to have your stove burning properly


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 9, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> I guess the guy that's being contacted is up the ladder from Nathan, I've been in contact with Nathan quite a few times, followed everything he told me to try, he told me out 3,600 sold, only two others were having these problems, I guess trying to make me
> feel like I'm doing something wrong, he never returned my last email, maybe to busy with other complaints. I burned a non EPA stove for 30 years, granted there is a lot to adjust to with these units, but even my dealer agrees it should not take 30 minutes or more to have your stove burning properly



Same story, was told that I was the only one with the puff back. Perhaps most folks haven’t searched the web and found their forum. 

Nate is a great guy, was luck to meet him in person, however he wears a lot of hats. Like anyone they get caught up in the day to day and don’t have enough time to respond. You have to email or call daily or every other day. I am sure there is a dart board in someone’s office with my photo as a target.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> I guess the guy that's being contacted is up the ladder from Nathan, I've been in contact with Nathan quite a few times, followed everything he told me to try, he told me out 3,600 sold, only two others were having these problems, I guess trying to make me
> feel like I'm doing something wrong, he never returned my last email, maybe to busy with other complaints. I burned a non EPA stove for 30 years, granted there is a lot to adjust to with these units, but even my dealer agrees it should not take 30 minutes or more to have your stove burning properly



I love the standard response about thousands sold and only a few having problems.  I grew up burning wood, if someone who has zero experience was having problems then I could understand.  When I called him back I was told the engineer would be contacting me.  Still waiting and what pissed me off was there are over 20 emails between us and he started going over everything from the beginning again.  I will be off Tuesday and making more calls.  

By the way, I made a complaint to the EPA.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 9, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I love the standard response about thousands sold and only a few having problems.  I grew up burning wood, if someone who has zero experience was having problems then I could understand.  When I called him back I was told the engineer would be contacting me.  Still waiting and what pissed me off was there are over 20 emails between us and he started going over everything from the beginning again.  I will be off Tuesday and making more calls.
> 
> By the way, I made a complaint to the EPA.


Maybe we all should!


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## Plaster79 (Dec 9, 2018)

Really wish i seen these threads before i bought this " puff the dragon"


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 9, 2018)

Have you watched any of my YouTube videos?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrga7rkHILQsOibXbRyMqI_ZvpO3YnIEg


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## Plaster79 (Dec 9, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Have you watched any of my YouTube videos?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrga7rkHILQsOibXbRyMqI_ZvpO3YnIEg


Yes i think i watched them all and watched the one of the explosion about 10 times. Iv been leaving the draft blower running for about an hr after i get the fire going good.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 9, 2018)

They had me sold on the 12 hr burn time boy do i feel stupid


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## brenndatomu (Dec 9, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> Really wish i seen these threads before i bought this " puff the dragon"


Yeah, that would have been good...but then we wouldn't have gotten to see your cool avatar pic! Gotta look at the bright side, right!?


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## woodey (Dec 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> If they last that long...no way that these units will be around after May 2020. (EPA phase 2)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     It will be interesting to see if the EPA reduces or suspends the current 2020 standards.


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## Medic21 (Dec 14, 2018)

Not to bad for 1.5 months and a solid 14 days burning with the new blower.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 14, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Not to bad for 1.5 months and a solid 14 days burning with the new blower.
> 
> View attachment 235789


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## Apollo kid (Dec 14, 2018)

Where are your stove pipe temperatures holding at?


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 14, 2018)

Do you have a double wall?


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## maple1 (Dec 14, 2018)

That looks pretty good.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 14, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Do you have a double wall?


No, 24 guage pipe to a stainless steel liner that runs up through a ceramic lined concrete block chimney, I heard from my dealer today says fc engineering should contact me by Monday, we'll see.


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## Medic21 (Dec 14, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> Where are your stove pipe temperatures holding at?



425-450 during the peak burn.  I’m surprised how much heat this will put out during that time also.  My only guess is it’s holding onto that much heat and conpletely burning so temps are cooler. 



Mrpelletburner said:


> Do you have a double wall?



Yes, very expensive vs single but, I only have 10” of clearance to the floor joists.  At 600 flue temps I can lay my hand on it.  Plus my basement was so cool I had a huge creosote problem with the single wall pipe.


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## Medic21 (Dec 14, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That looks pretty good.



Spent all day plumbing to install a new and second water heater I ran out of time to pull the outside clean out and get the borescope up to look at the horizontal pipe and the actual Class A pipe.  Will do that tomorrow.  It was 50 here today, far cry from 18 high last Thursday. I’m crossing my fingers that that will be good too.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 14, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Spent all day plumbing to install a new and second water heater I ran out of time to pull the outside clean out and get the borescope up to look at the horizontal pipe and the actual Class A pipe.  Will do that tomorrow.  It was 50 here today, far cry from 18 high last Thursday. I’m crossing my fingers that that will be good too.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 14, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Yes, very expensive vs single but, I only have 10” of clearance to the floor joists.  At 600 flue temps I can lay my hand on it.  Plus my basement was so cool I had a huge creosote problem with the single wall pipe.



Because my stove pipe was a similar distance to the top of my hot water storage, I used 1” ceramic insulation blanket. Definitely helps keep the flue temperatures higher.

Still just getting 7hrs from load to a cold stove.


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## Apollo kid (Dec 14, 2018)

When I start a fire, cold start, I'll get pipe temperature up to 450-475, with load door cracked open, then try with the door closed, and just watch the temperature dwindle down, honest to God it just baffles me, did that blower help you in this area?


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## Medic21 (Dec 14, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Because my stove pipe was a similar distance to the top of my hot water storage, I used 1” ceramic insulation blanket. Definitely helps keep the flue temperatures higher.
> 
> Still just getting 7hrs from load to a cold stove.



When it got cold last week if I stayed up on it I could get 7-8 hours between loading with it still producing heat.  Thermostat set at 72 andbthe house at 70 when I reloaded.  There is enough heat and coals that it only took 20 min to have it stuffed full burning.  

30 out I can get 12 hours out of it now.  I have still got a few puffs this week and they come when I load it and the draft fan shuts down soon after.  I’m starting to increase the temp and leave it run 45min to an hour and I will see how that does.  They have been in contact with me about how it’s doing. I’m happier just not satisfied yet.


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## Medic21 (Dec 14, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> When I start a fire, cold start, I'll get pipe temperature up to 450-475, with load door cracked open, then try with the door closed, and just watch the temperature dwindle down, honest to God it just baffles me, did that blower help you in this area?



I let it get to 650-700 when I load on a digital internal probe before closing the door.   Each layer I add gets to 500 before I add another and if you watch it will be good and charred before anymore is added, just as the manual says.  

This thing is horrible to cold start and I would suggest you don’t let it go out and you will be happier.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 14, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> When it got cold last week if I stayed up on it I could get 7-8 hours between loading with it still producing heat.  Thermostat set at 72 andbthe house at 70 when I reloaded.  There is enough heat and coals that it only took 20 min to have it stuffed full burning.



Same here with thermostat set at 72 and calling for heat (70 downstairs). However only 3 mornings I had how enough ambers to get up and running again. Also the same 20 to get the stove going good.

However, even if it is 30 degrees out, I still get the same burn times.

Guess my only complaint is the burn times.


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

I just checked the rest of the chimney and it all looks the same.  A little soot buildup the brushes off easily.  Now if only we could get rid of the occasional puffing so I didn’t have to burn with the draft fan longer probably loosing an hour of burn times between loading it would be great.


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Same here with thermostat set at 72 and calling for heat (70 downstairs). However only 3 mornings I had how enough ambers to get up and running again. Also the same 20 to get the stove going good.
> 
> However, even if it is 30 degrees out, I still get the same burn times.
> 
> Guess my only complaint is the burn times.




I’ve got tons of coals in the morning.  I’ve started taking ashes out and I can throw large splits in and see good fire in 20 secs.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 15, 2018)

How many cords of wood you guys used last year??


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> How many cords of wood you guys used last year??




I have no idea I don’t keep track.  I have a leantoo that holds 10 and I just refill it every spring and it never comes close to being empty.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 15, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I have no idea I don’t keep track.  I have a leantoo that holds 10 and I just refill it every spring and it never comes close to being empty.


10 face or 10 full?


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> 10 face or 10 full?



10 full, 12x20 with an 7 foot ceiling with enough room for the log splitter with door closed.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 15, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> 10 full, 12x20 with an 7 foot ceiling with enough room for the log splitter with door closed.


So if you had to guess on what you used last year ?


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

Plaster79 said:


> So if you had to guess on what you used last year ?



4-5 cords but, it was a long drawn out spring.  First time I’ve burned past March and actually a little in May in my life.


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## Plaster79 (Dec 15, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> 4-5 cords but, it was a long drawn out spring.  First time I’ve burned past March and actually a little in May in my life.


Yeah spring was a joke and the morals was terrible found maybe 10 on the property


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## Medic21 (Dec 15, 2018)

I think I may have found and corrected another problem today.  When I pulled the outside cap off the bottom of the tee to check it I found the cap loose and hanging down a little on one side.  I just noticed I have a 100 more degrees on the flue when idling.  I’m thinking I had a draft leak outside and it lowered the draft at the stove without the draft blower running enough it was not burning correctly.  

I’ll be having a talk with the guy that cleans the chimney next time.  Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 16, 2018)

I know I asked this before. Are you actively measuring the draft?


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## Medic21 (Dec 16, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> I know I asked this before. Are you actively measuring the draft?



No


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## Plaster79 (Feb 14, 2019)

Any updates??


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## Apollo kid (Feb 14, 2019)

Plaster79 said:


> Any updates??


Last year burning this lemon for me, this is why the lemon law was introduced in the automotive industry!


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## Apollo kid (Feb 14, 2019)

Apollo kid said:


> Last year burning this lemon for me, this is why the lemon law was introduced in the automotive industry!



And for all the fire chief people following these threads, shame on you for putting out such a Poor product and not doing the right thing


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## Mrpelletburner (Feb 15, 2019)

Fire Chief owners.... Is anyone beside myself measuring the draft?


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## KC Matt (Feb 15, 2019)

Apollo kid said:


> Last year burning this lemon for me, this is why the lemon law was introduced in the automotive industry!



Wise move.  If I had to deal with all the issues this furnace has, I'd work some OT and buy gas.  I just can't believe you guys have to deal with such an ineffective design.


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