# Boiler Leaking after New Pressure Relief Valve



## BARTSFAM (Feb 23, 2012)

Hi!
I've posted other problems with my forced hot water oil burner, and everyone has offered great advice.  Now I have another problem.

In the last month, I have spent close to $900 on new pressure relief valves.
On the plumber's last visit, cold water was leaking out of the downward facing pipe, connected to the boiler's pressure relief valve.  He put on a new valve for $330.
Now, three days later, the downward facing pipe is leaking cold water again. This occurs at the end of a cycle when the boiler kicks on.
He's coming back tomorrow for another visit.  He always claims it's another part that he needs to fix, and yet this relief valve does not work.
Any guesses if he did something wrong, or misdiagnosed?  Did he set the pressure correctly with the expansion tank? Is there too much air in the system?  Too much water?  The pressure gauge reads around 30 psi at the end of a cycle.

If he just put on a new relief valve, why is it still leaking?


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 23, 2012)

The valve is leaking most likely because you boiler is over pressure.

When you shut the boiler off and it cools down your gauge should read 12 psi. If it doesn't than there is another problem. Could be the expansion tank bladder has rotted. Auto fill could be stuck open...

330 bucks to thread on a 25 dollar part seems a little steep to me, fwiw


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 23, 2012)

How many times has the relief valve been replaced?

I wouldn't trust the tech from what you have stated so far.

Reminds me of my neighbors 'service tech'. After she had to callback the tech three times because her boiler wouldn't shut off she asks me to take a look. Turns out the thermostat wires were chafed and touching where they came through the wall, so the boiler would sometimes never shut off even though the tstat was turned off.  Ten minute fix. Something the tech missed three times.

My neighbor was able to negotiate the 1200 'repair' bill down to about 250 after talking to a superior. So I would consider having someone else take a look. And complain if the first missed something obvious.


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## BARTSFAM (Feb 23, 2012)

mikefrommaine said:
			
		

> 330 bucks to thread on a 25 dollar part seems a little steep to me, fwiw



To be exact, the bill was $90 for labor, $50 for diagnosis, and $170 for boiler pressure relief valve, plus $10 for "sundries."  PLUS tax.

I expect tomorrow he will say that something is wrong with the tank, and I need a new one.  The boiler is only 8 years old. That is why I was asking if there is air in the system, or something else causing the pressure to build up.


This is the first time he has replaced the "boiler" pressure relief valve.  The other time he replaced zone valves, and the main pressure relief valve from where the water enters the boiler.


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## tom in maine (Feb 23, 2012)

I agree with Mike, you need to talk to a superior. This is way too much for a simple PR valve replacement.
Once is enough, not three times.
I would expect there is an expansion tank issue if I had to hazard a guess.

You need to get this $900 bill sorted out.


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## RobC (Feb 24, 2012)

I would think that diagnosis gets rolled into labor when you go ahead and have him fix it. I would second the expansion tank be the problem. How's your water quality ? 
Where are you in Central MA ?
PM JayDogg. He's in C.MA and may be able to help with another plumber.
Cheers Rob


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## BARTSFAM (Feb 24, 2012)

My water quality is "heavy metal."   But, I do have a decent softener that the well water hits before going to the boiler.

I live in Rutland.....right in the center of Mass!


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## RobC (Feb 24, 2012)

Over the long haul you may want to consider doing a water quality test on your boiler and adding some material to your system to neutralize the water in boiler and pipes. The company I use is http://www.woodboilersolutions.com/. There are other ways to put additives in but these guys do a test and make recommendations from there.
The reason I asked about water is that could be what is getting some of you valves weeping and has the potential of causing other problems in the system. 
My water down here isn't any better. Hard with iron.
JayDogg is right in your area if I remember correctly.


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## SmokeEater (Feb 24, 2012)

BARTSFAM said:
			
		

> Hi!
> I've posted other problems with my forced hot water oil burner, and everyone has offered great advice.  Now I have another problem.
> 
> In the last month, I have spent close to $900 on new pressure relief valves.
> ...



BARTSFAM,  just looked up the price before shipping and taxes on a Watts model 374A relief valve and the price is $24.95.  I'd like to know what the markup is on these items at your local plumbers??  Sounds like an expansion tank and/or a pressure reducing valve problem.  Good luck on the solution.


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## BARTSFAM (Feb 24, 2012)

[quote author="SmokeEater" date="1330067693
BARTSFAM,  just looked up the price before shipping and taxes on a Watts model 374A relief valve and the price is $24.95.  I'd like to know what the markup is on these items at your local plumbers??  Sounds like an expansion tank and/or a pressure reducing valve problem.  Good luck on the solution.[/quote]



Great!   I already looked up expansion tanks and found them for $30/per, in case he wants to charge alot for that also.

I know it's time to get a new tech, but he's the one my oil delivery company recommends. Plus, he just allegedly fixed the leaking problem, so hopefully he makes it right because he didn't solve it the fist time.


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## bigburner (Feb 24, 2012)

You can thank flat rate pricing for those high bills, Most companies target a 400.00 ticket per call. If the pressure is at 30 when it's leaking then you have an expansion problem [assume no feed water pressure issue] Tap on your tank you can tell how much water is in there, if it sounds full at 30psi it probably is.  Water quality can be an issue but usually not a short term basics.


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## peakbagger (Feb 24, 2012)

One other thing to check is if the boiler makeup water valve is not operating correctly. Normally the internal diaphragm get hard and cracks so they leak out the bonnet but I have also seen them get stuck at the incoming line pressure or somewhere in between. If you have hard water or old pipes they can get plugged and usually the worse time for plugging is when the boiler has been drained and refilled (like replacing a pressure releif valve). If you are lucky, they are held plumbed in line with a union, otherwise you may have to so some soldering. Home Depot and Lowes usually stocks them. and its usually an easy fix.


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## RobC (Feb 24, 2012)

You mentioned Oil Delivery guy. Our local company started 2 - 3 weeks ago topping off everybody, whether scheduled or not,  in anticipation of the high prices that are upon us. That's caring for you customers, not, taking care of them.


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## Clarkbug (Feb 24, 2012)

Bartsfam,

Sorry to hear your woes arent yet fixed with your system.  I would post a link of your other thread so the folks here have a little bit more background info to help you out. 

I think what has happened is that when your system was drained down previously, it was probably allowed to "fast fill" back up, and there is too much water in your system.  Your pressure regulator into the boiler (on the makeup) may also be bad, allowing more water in as it is relieved out the top.  Thats why last time when you turned off the feed, the water got hot that was coming out of the overflow.

Glad to know that you have a softener installed, but you may want to check and see if the feed that fills your boiler is tapped off before or after the softener, just to be sure.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out!


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## ALASKAPF185 (Feb 24, 2012)

I would look at the expansion tank first. It should sound hollow in 2/3rds of the tank. Only reason I would not think it is the PRV is because it leaks only when the boiler comes to temp limit. When PRV's go it will leak always regardless of temp. Its too bad that you got stuck with a bill like that. It usually only takes me 15 min. to replace. I pull negative pressure on the system and quickly swap it out to minimize air into the system with a complete drain down like some rookies do. Remember this, if they are not licensed to do the repair, you legally have the right to not pay at all. In court you would be getting a refund, even if the repair was good. Parts under $50.00 usually are doubled or tripled plus $89.00 to $100.00/hour labor plus service call. So about $190 would be fair and it should take any competent tech 15-20 minutes to figure out or less. Operating pressure at 180* should be 20-22psi, or this is where I find most at.


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## BARTSFAM (Feb 24, 2012)

Well...the tech just left and this time he said it was a broken bladder in the expansion tank. 

Labor and parts this time.....$117.   Not so bad compared to last time.  
My wife was right on him when he said that it was the expansion tank, because we looked it up on the Internet last night and found the same one for $27.97.   She told him that, and he said that his was $50.  But anyway, I guess we can live with $117.  We will see if this solves the problem. Every time he comes though, he charges $10 for "sundries".....it must be his lunch money. 

The expansion tank that he replaced lasted about 8 1/2 years.   The tank he put in was the Extrol Model 30,  4.4 gallons.

We will see if this does the trick.   
Thanks again everybody for the advice & guidance.


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## Morgan (Feb 25, 2012)

I have to agree that its the expansion tank in your case.  If you have a smaller bladder type it has to be replaced, if its the old bladderless style that is usually gray (any one I have seen anyway) and hangs up near the basement ceiling it has to be drained down to about 1/3 full or so to allow room for expanding water, there will be a valve handy for this purpose.  If the relief was leaking all the time, then I would suspect fill water valve (in my opinion these should be shut off after filling and air purging of the system, boilers should be protected by low water cut offs, if you need make up water you have a leak)  Also a sometimes overlooked cause of a relief valves leaking by is if you have a DHW coil in your boiler for your hot water needs.  These can develop pin-hole leaks and cause you relief to leak by, however this would be a constant leak as well.


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