# Quadra Fire 3100i doesn't heat the whole house



## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

My woodburning stove reaches high temperatures but my hallway and bedrooms are still a little chilly. I have a blower on the stove and turn the ceiling fan on in the dining room bit the heat just doesn't get down the hall and to the bedrooms. I don't remember the exact sq footage of the house; just moved here a few months ago but I believe it's over 1200. As for the controls on the stove; I know you open both when first starting the fire but when do you close them and can you keep the secondary one open which is located in the center of the unit?


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My woodburning stove reaches high temperatures but my hallway and bedrooms are still a little chilly. I have a blower on the stove and turn the ceiling fan on in the dining room bit the heat just doesn't get down the hall and to the bedrooms. I don't remember the exact sq footage of the house; just moved here a few months ago but I believe it's over 1200. As for the controls on the stove; I know you open both when first starting the fire but when do you close them and can you keep the secondary one open which is located in the center of the unit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

Any suggestions, help? I can't keep the fire going. This is my first time using a wood stove. I had the chimney swept, new liner and chimney installed and new firebricks put in.


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## Dataman (Oct 26, 2018)

http://www.quadrafire.com/Products/3100i-ACC-Wood-Insert.aspx

Load it up and get it roaring along.  Really good burn and damper it down about 1/2.    Should burn 10 hours give or take.   It also depends on what WOOD. 

Have you read the owners manual?

Link Above and Manuals.

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installmanuals/3100_WOOD_INSERT_OWNERS_7044_226.PDF


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

Dataman said:


> http://www.quadrafire.com/Products/3100i-ACC-Wood-Insert.aspx
> 
> Load it up and get it roaring along.  Really good burn and damper it down about 1/2.    Should burn 10 hours give or take.   It also depends on what WOOD.
> 
> ...



When you say damper it down do you mean the primary control? I have read the manual and followed what it said. It got really hot one day when I started the fire, the second day I couldn't get it to start. Flame would die out. Is it not cold enough outside. It's in the mid 40's here.

Do you leave the door opened a crack after first starting the fire? I saw some posts that mentioned they leave the door open. I didn't see that in the manual.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> When you say damper it down do you mean the primary control? I have read the manual and followed what it said. It got really hot one day when I started the fire, the second day I couldn't get it to start. Flame would die out. Is it not cold enough outside. It's in the mid 40's here.
> 
> Do you leave the door opened a crack after first starting the fire? I saw some posts that mentioned they leave the door open. I didn't see that in the manual.



I have the pre ACC model


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## Dataman (Oct 26, 2018)

Don't overfire it.  I would leave my door open only enough to get it started.     In order to extend burn you have to cut down oxygen supply.    That air control knob.    When starting it should be open.    Damper it down with that.   Read the manual, quick start guide section 5.


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## bholler (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I have the pre ACC model


The pre acc model works the same you just have to close the startup air manually.  How tall is your chimney? Is the stove hooked to a stainless liner that runs all the way to the top of the chimney? Is that liner insulated? Is there a blockoff plate sealing off the area around that liner?


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> The pre acc model works the same you just have to close the startup air manually.  How tall is your chimney? Is the stove hooked to a stainless liner that runs all the way to the top of the chimney? Is that liner insulated? Is there a blockoff plate sealing off the area around that liner?



The liner is all the way up to the top of the chimney and a block off plate, new cap. They didn't insulate the liner and told me they couldn't because there wasn't enough space but that it wasn't necessary because it was insulated at the top of the chimney. I don't know anything about chimneys, liners. 

I started a fire a few minutes ago. I opened the primary control. After the the fire was started I closed it and now the flame is out. Sometimes it starts and stays lit with alot of heat and other times the flame just dies out.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> The liner is all the way up to the top of the chimney and a block off plate, new cap. They didn't insulate the liner and told me they couldn't because there wasn't enough space but that it wasn't necessary because it was insulated at the top of the chimney. I don't know anything about chimneys, liners.
> 
> I started a fire a few minutes ago. I opened the primary control. After the the fire was started I closed it and now the flame is out. Sometimes it starts and stays lit with alot of heat and other times the flame just dies out.



How many logs do you put in to start and how much newspaper and kindling. I have looked at videos, read the manual, don't know what I am doing wrong, just know it's cold in here. Lol


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## bholler (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> How many logs do you put in to start and how much newspaper and kindling. I have looked at videos, read the manual, don't know what I am doing wrong, just know it's cold in here. Lol


How dry is your wood.  This sounds like typical problems from wet wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> How dry is your wood.  This sounds like typical problems from wet wood.



I don't know. I purchased from someone that also has made deliveries to others on my street. I am going to have to get a tester and see what the moisture is. I am new to wood stoves. Never had one before as I lived in a condo for many years. I do t have any experience. Hoping to get help and suggestions from here. I appreciate all the help so far.


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## bholler (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I don't know. I purchased from someone that also has made deliveries to others on my street. I am going to have to get a tester and see what the moisture is. I am new to wood stoves. Never had one before as I lived in a condo for many years. I do t have any experience. Hoping to get help and suggestions from here. I appreciate all the help so far.


Chances are you wood is to wet.  To find out if that is your issue get some of the compressed wood bricks.  If they work fine you know its the wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> Chances are you wood is to wet.  To find out if that is your issue get some of the compressed wood bricks.  If they work fine you know its the wood.



I had a hot fire last night.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

How many logs do you usually start with and how much kindling? How long do you leave the primary air open until you close it?


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## bholler (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> How many logs do you usually start with and how much kindling? How long do you leave the primary air open until you close it?


On my regency which is very similar to your quad i used a peice of newspaper crumpled up and a little bit of cardboard.  Then i filled the firebox full of wood and lit it.  At my old house with 35' of chimney it was up to temp in 15 mins or so from cold.  The new house only has 18 feet so it takes a little longer 20 or 25 mins and i may need to leave the door cracked for the first 5 mins or so.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

I just had a nice fire but it just went out. I have been trying for over an hour now and can't keep it lit.


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## bholler (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I just had a nice fire but it just went out. I have been trying for over an hour now and can't keep it lit.


Sounds like wet wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

bholler said:


> Sounds like wet wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

Is it OK to store some wood in the basement. Can that make the wood damp? Should it be stored outside?


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## iceman2424 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Do you leave the door opened a crack after first starting the fire? I saw some posts that mentioned they leave the door open. I didn't see that in the manual.



Assuming your wood is good, and assuming you're using kindling to start the fire, AND assuming  your air control is fully open, cracking the door would be my next step. I am a night and weekend burner, and I do this every time on startup.

I also crack a nearby window for an extra jolt of O2.

10 to 15 minutes later I'm burning hot, and the fire is ready for medium sized splits. Don't use big ones, that could be another issue.  The smaller the better on startup.

40 ain't too warm to draft, I love burning in these temps. But you might want to consider preheating your flue, too. Light a piece of newspaper and hold it up to the baffle until it burns down.  Good way to promote draft, I've found.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

iceman2424 said:


> Assuming your wood is good, and assuming you're using kindling to start the fire, AND assuming  your air control is fully open, cracking the door would be my next step. I am a night and weekend burner, and I do this every time on startup.
> 
> I also crack a nearby window for an extra jolt of O2.
> 
> ...



I got a fire going now. Temperature gauge on stove Rose to 300 degrees. Still don't know what the problem is and why it takes so long to get the fire going. How long do you leave the air control open after starting the fire and how long do you leave the window open? Appreciate all the help.


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## edyit (Oct 26, 2018)

get yourself a few packs of these https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-3-pack-fuel-block?cm_vc=-10005 or something similar as long as its all wood with no wax binders, if it works well with these then you can determine if it's your wood supply (which it sounds like it is)


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## iceman2424 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I got a fire going now. Temperature gauge on stove Rose to 300 degrees. Still don't know what the problem is and why it takes so long to get the fire going. How long do you leave the air control open after starting the fire and how long do you leave the window open? Appreciate all the help.



I leave the door cracked and window open for 10 to 15 minutes, and then shut both. After that I leave the air control open for about a half hour before I start the damper down. 

Take video of what you’re doing on startup and post it here. I’m a nerd, and love analyzing this crap. 

If you are following the manual and struggling to get hot fires going, then like others are saying, you’ve got wet wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

This may be a stupid question but if it's the wood then wouldn't it not start at all? The fire has been going now for about 45 minutes and the temperature is hot. I think I am doing some wrong with the controls


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## barnaclebob (Oct 26, 2018)

While the fire is going good, play with the air controls.  When you close it down you should see the flames slow down and maybe go away.  When you open it, the fire should be looking nice and alive, almost like an open fireplace fire.  When you start the fire you want the air controls fully open.

Wet wood will eventually burn but takes a longer time and more kindling to get to a point where it wont go out.  It will be less efficient at heating since you have to boil away all of that water and it can create more creosote in the chimney.

For long burns you need to set the air control as low as possible without the fire going out.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> While the fire is going good, play with the air controls.  When you close it down you should see the flames slow down and maybe go away.  When you open it, the fire should be looking nice and alive, almost like an open fireplace fire.  When you start the fire you want the air controls fully open.
> 
> Wet wood will eventually burn but takes a longer time and more kindling to get to a point where it wont go out.  It will be less efficient at heating since you have to boil away all of that water and it can create more creosote in the chimney.
> 
> For long burns you need to set the air control as low as possible without the fire going out.



I have some wood in the basement. Is it OK to keep it there or should it be stored outside?


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## barnaclebob (Oct 26, 2018)

Storing wood inside is usually fine but will bring the bugs and mess into the basement.

Are you familiar with what people mean when they say "dry wood"?  It doesn't just mean dry to the touch but the total moisture content of the wood.  If you just had it delivered you need to buy a $20 moisture meter and measure the moisture content on a freshly split face.  Delivered wood is rarely ever fully dry or "seasoned" even if they say it is.

I read the manual for your insert and it also looks like it has something called startup control.  I'm not exactly sure how that works so be sure to carefully read the manual that someone else linked to.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> While the fire is going good, play with the air controls.  When you close it down you should see the flames slow down and maybe go away.  When you open it, the fire should be looking nice and alive, almost like an open fireplace fire.  When you start the fire you want the air controls fully open.
> 
> Wet wood will eventually burn but takes a longer time and more kindling to get to a point where it wont go out.  It will be less efficient at heating since you have to boil away all of that water and it can create more creosote in the chimney.
> 
> For long burns you need to set the air control as low as possible without the fire going out.



The primary or secondary?


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> Storing wood inside is usually fine but will bring the bugs and mess into the basement.
> 
> Are you familiar with what people mean when they say "dry wood"?  It doesn't just mean dry to the touch but the total moisture content of the wood.  If you just had it delivered you need to buy a $20 moisture meter and measure the moisture content on a freshly split face.  Delivered wood is rarely ever fully dry or "seasoned" even if they say it is.
> 
> I read the manual for your insert and it also looks like it has something called startup control.  I'm not exactly sure how that works so be sure to carefully read the manual that someone else linked to.



There are 2 controls. I posted a pic of my stove. The control on the right and the one in the center are supposed to be pushed in when starting a fire. This lets air in. After the fire gets going the control on the right is suppose to be closed and the one in the center controls the fire; slow burn, etc.

I will have to get a meter. Thanks for all the info.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 26, 2018)

The first thing to check is wood moisture. As barnaclebob said, purchased wood is almost never dry. Harbor Fright has a meter for $14.
It's also possible that you have a couple different types of wood, and one is a bit drier. That would explain why sometimes you get a hot fire, sometimes not. Have you ever seen flames in the top of the firebox, coming off of the secondary burn tubes?
If you bought the stove new, maybe someone from the store can stop by and try to run the stove with the wood you have. Maybe they could also bring a little known dry wood from the store? Gas station or box store wood that you buy may or may not be dry; The bricks that were mentioned, available at farm stores, will be a foolproof test of weather you are operating the stove properly..they should give you a hot fire.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> The first thing to check is wood moisture. As barnaclebob said, purchased wood is almost never dry. Harbor Fright has a meter for $14.
> It's also possible that you have a couple different types of wood, and one is a bit drier. That would explain why sometimes you get a hot fire, sometimes not. Have you ever seen flames in the top of the firebox, coming off of the secondary burn tubes?
> If you bought the stove new, maybe someone from the store can stop by and try to run the stove with the wood you have. Maybe they could also bring a little known dry wood from the store? Gas station or box store wood that you buy may or may not be dry; The bricks that were mentioned, available at farm stores, will be a foolproof test of weather you are operating the stove properly..they should give you a hot fire.



I didn't buy the stove, was here when I moved in the house in June. I will pick up a meter and check the moisture

The wood is different types elm locus maple oak


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## weatherguy (Oct 26, 2018)

Turn it down in steps. When you get a roaring fire turn it down 1/4 of the way and let it get roaring again, do that til it's almost closed. In my case it's totally closed.


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> Turn it down in steps. When you get a roaring fire turn it down 1/4 of the way and let it get roaring again, do that til it's almost closed. In my case it's totally closed.



I will try that tomorrow. Burning ok now. I think like someone said because there are different wood I think some may be dry and others not dry enough
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
This is how the fire was after I finally got it started and the temperature


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## deborita3 (Oct 26, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I will try that tomorrow. Burning ok now. I think like someone said because there are different wood I think some may be dry and others not dry enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So I just came home, coals were nice and hot, added some wood, lit for a bit and went out. Added another Kindle and it lit. Looks like it is the wood. Don't know what I am going to do for the winter.


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## edyit (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Looks like it is the wood. Don't know what I am going to do for the winter.



https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/redstone-3-pack-fuel-block?cm_vc=-10005 

is a very viable option and are available by the pallet, they also usually go on sale around thanksgiving


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

We had the pre ACC model as well. The trouble I found is the time it took to get usable heat from the stove so the stove became a Friday through Monday burner. It seems like all the heat was in the fireplace and not out front. The window produced substantial radiant heat. We almost always had to run the fans on high. Admittedly, when we purchased the stove, we were more concerned with looks than performance, and the insert is small. Ours came with a VHS instructional video. 
The guy that now has the stove loves it, but he came from an old smoke dragon. The stove does seem to produce more heat at his house but he has carpeting and only two windows and a less open space. The guy who now has the stove did not cover his wood and I noticed the heavy steel baffle was deteriorating, he now covers the wood.
300 degrees is just getting started and probably just over the minimum temperature to start the secondaries. 
We used paper and kindling at first then gradually increased the wood size which seemed to take time but may have primed the stove for heat(?). We finally used smaller pieces of splits with a small piece of fire starter.
 Your wood should be dry in moisture content.
We replaced the insert with a free standing stove and are very satisfied.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

You need to cover your wood and there are videos about putting the wood inside. Some or one of these videos indicated the evaporative moisture content was massive. Initially, I kept a small amount of wood in a bin several feet from the stove. Since most of our wood was dead standing, the heat caused all the critters to become very active. We then moved the wood into the garage inside of one topless 55 gallon barrel. This seemes to work well and is a practice we continue today.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My woodburning stove reaches high temperatures but my hallway and bedrooms are still a little chilly. I have a blower on the stove and turn the ceiling fan on in the dining room bit the heat just doesn't get down the hall and to the bedrooms. I don't remember the exact sq footage of the house; just moved here a few months ago but I believe it's over 1200. As for the controls on the stove; I know you open both when first starting the fire but when do you close them and can you keep the secondary one open which is located in the center of the unit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Correction: Both controllers fully open for starting- pushed in, then close the startup after about 15 minutes (might be sooner depending on your conditions) then regulate the primary in or out to regulate the heat according to the burn. Keep in mind that stove is only about 45k btu maximum and when you regulate the secondary controller down to minimum you have even less btus.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> There are 2 controls. I posted a pic of my stove. The control on the right and the one in the center are supposed to be pushed in when starting a fire. This lets air in. After the fire gets going the control on the right is suppose to be closed and the one in the center controls the fire; slow burn, etc.
> 
> I will have to get a meter. Thanks for all the info.


Correction-  my controls were both pushed in on startup.


deborita3 said:


> My woodburning stove reaches high temperatures but my hallway and bedrooms are still a little chilly. I have a blower on the stove and turn the ceiling fan on in the dining room bit the heat just doesn't get down the hall and to the bedrooms. I don't remember the exact sq footage of the house; just moved here a few months ago but I believe it's over 1200. As for the controls on the stove; I know you open both when first starting the fire but when do you close them and can you keep the secondary one open which is located in the center of the unit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That stove is identical to the one I had, accents and all. Using the location and appearance of your air controls to judge your model, are you sure your stove has the ACC? EDIT: It looks like the pre 1995 ACT model Advanced Combustion Technology.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

Here is the startup procedure for the 3100 ACT. Check the numbers on your stove to verify the model.


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## Dix (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> This may be a stupid question but if it's the wood then wouldn't it not start at all? The fire has been going now for about 45 minutes and the temperature is hot. I think I am doing some wrong with the controls



Welcome to the forums !!

Wet AKA unseasoned fire wood will burn, but you use up a lot of the woods energy burning out the moisture. Do you hear hissing / sizzling coming from the wood as it's burning?


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

Dix said:


> Welcome to the forums !!
> 
> Wet AKA unseasoned fire wood will burn, but you use up a lot of the woods energy burning out the moisture. Do you hear hissing / sizzling coming from the wood as it's burning?



I have a mixture of wood. I think some is more wet than others. I have heard sizzling with some pieces and not with others. I am going to get a moisture meter. 
Should the secondary control be open or closed? I have the primary closed.


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## Dix (Oct 27, 2018)

As a general rule, air open on start up.

Check the above posted manual for details.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

Dix said:


> As a general rule, air open on start up.
> 
> Check the above posted manual for details.



I have the air open on startup. I was wondering after you close the primary control, where should you keep the secondary which controls the heat. I don't want to burn the logs too quickly bit want to maintain enough heat. My magnetic thermometer is reading a little over 300. How high of a temp do you get on your stove?


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> Correction-  my controls were both pushed in on startup.
> 
> That stove is identical to the one I had, accents and all. Using the location and appearance of your air controls to judge your model, are you sure your stove has the ACC? EDIT: It looks like the pre 1995 ACT model Advanced Combustion Technology.
> 
> View attachment 231852



It is a Pre ACC. It has a blower on it that you control manually.
I thought the quadra was suppose to give off good heat.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> Here is the startup procedure for the 3100 ACT. Check the numbers on your stove to verify the model.
> View attachment 231855
> View attachment 231857
> View attachment 231856



Thank you so much!!


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

If you have the ACT, you want to close the rod on the right (start control) at 5 to 15 minutes and the center one will regulate the heat according to quality of wood/draft, and circumstances.

Page 16 in my manual.
CENTER FULL OPEN (PUSH IN) MAX HEAT
If you have the ACT model.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> We had the pre ACC model as well. The trouble I found is the time it took to get usable heat from the stove so the stove became a Friday through Monday burner. It seems like all the heat was in the fireplace and not out front. The window produced substantial radiant heat. We almost always had to run the fans on high. Admittedly, when we purchased the stove, we were more concerned with looks than performance, and the insert is small. Ours came with a VHS instructional video.
> The guy that now has the stove loves it, but he came from an old smoke dragon. The stove does seem to produce more heat at his house but he has carpeting and only two windows and a less open space. The guy who now has the stove did not cover his wood and I noticed the heavy steel baffle was deteriorating, he now covers the wood.
> 300 degrees is just getting started and probably just over the minimum temperature to start the secondaries.
> We used paper and kindling at first then gradually increased the wood size which seemed to take time but may have primed the stove for heat(?). We finally used smaller pieces of splits with a small piece of fire starter.
> ...


Thanks for all the info


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> View attachment 231876
> 
> If you have the ACT, you want to close the rod on the right (start control) at 5 to 15 minutes and the center one will regulate the heat according to quality of wood/draft, and circumstances.
> 
> ...



You push the center one in for fully open correct?


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> It is a Pre ACC. It has a blower on it that you control manually.
> I thought the quadra was suppose to give off good heat.


I was impressed with the free standing unit and as far as efficiency or lack of creosote they both were fantastic. 
I hear some on here rave about their inserts. The 3100i ACT was the only insert I ever used and we weren't satisfied. The guy who uses our old insert now loves it. I guess our houses have very different needs.
I see the heat output of inserts as obstructed by the exterior trim and not as free flowing as a free standing unit.
With quality wood and a good draft that stove will crank some heat but you need to keep feeding it since the Fire box is under 2cubic feet. That is why we ended up using it on the weekends because during the week our schedules would not permit keeping it stoked and after it cooled, even though there were coals inside, it took too long to heat the space again.
Get some dry wood and give it a whirl.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> You push the center one in for fully open correct?


**Yes, I'm sorry push in. I got confused with my present stove.**
If you have the ACT, follow those directions for start up an running.


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## Dix (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I have the air open on startup. I was wondering after you close the primary control, where should you keep the secondary which controls the heat. I don't want to burn the logs too quickly bit want to maintain enough heat. My magnetic thermometer is reading a little over 300. How high of a temp do you get on your stove?



The PE Cruises at 600 F, the 13 also.


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## begreen (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I will try that tomorrow. Burning ok now. I think like someone said because there are different wood I think some may be dry and others not dry enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think this stove has a convection deck lid. (VirginiaIron please verify) If so, the temperature in that location is not going to be lower than the actual stove top temp. Try moving the thermometer to the front face of the stove above either door corner and see what it reads.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

begreen said:


> I think this stove has a convection deck lid. (VirginiaIron please verify) If so, the temperature in that location is not going to be lower than the actual stove top temp. Try moving the thermometer to the front face of the stove above either door corner and see what it reads.


Edit: Yes. The heavy steel stove sits inside a casing with just the top of the exposed portion sticking out and exposed. The fans blew cooler air into the plenum and the hot air came out the top at the opening in the picture. When I tried a magnetic thermometer the left and right sides of the top plate were definitely cooler than the center of the unit.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> I was impressed with the free standing unit and as far as efficiency or lack of creosote they both were fantastic.
> I hear some on here rave about their inserts. The 3100i ACT was the only insert I ever used and we weren't satisfied. The guy who uses our old insert now loves it. I guess our houses have very different needs.
> I see the heat output of inserts as obstructed by the exterior trim and not as free flowing as a free standing unit.
> With quality wood and a good draft that stove will crank some heat but you need to keep feeding it since the Fire box is under 2cubic feet. That is why we ended up using it on the weekends because during the week our schedules would not permit keeping it stoked and after it cooled, even though there were coals inside, it took too long to heat the space again.
> Get some dry wood and give it a whirl.



I agree with you. The insert was here when we moved in. If I had to choose I would probably get one like yours. Without the blower on hardly any heat comes out. My thermostat down the hall is only registering 62 and the bedrooms are a little chilly. Not what I was hoping for especially when it gets really cold out.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

begreen said:


> I think this stove has a convection deck lid. (VirginiaIron please verify) If so, the temperature in that location is not going to be lower than the actual stove top temp. Try moving the thermometer to the front face of the stove above either door corner and see what it reads.



Temperature began to drop when I placed above the door corner


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

Dix said:


> The PE Cruises at 600 F, the 13 also.



My magnetic thermometer that the chimney sweep guy gave me says 600 is too high.


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## Dix (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My magnetic thermometer that the chimney sweep guy gave me says 600 is too high.



It's an insert, reading on the face. You have to figure 100 - 200 F hotter in the box.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My magnetic thermometer that the chimney sweep guy gave me says 600 is too high.


I'm not sure what to tell you about that aside from the manual never stating, that I remember/observed any temperature recommendations. I think many other stove operators on here run close to those temps.
My present stove thermometer says 300 is the minimum burn temp to prevent creosote. These last days I have run mine at the minimum temp and I can definitely see creosote forming on my cap- after the recent cleaning.
We got our thermometer from TSC. I also understand there are differences between pipe and stove thermometers. Your thermometer looks very small and might be less likely to show your temperatures as they progress.
** Either way, read and understand your operators manual for your correct model and know positively how to operate it AND shut it down**.

I keep a Rutland fire suppression stick nearby- just in case.

EAIaIQobChMI27eb7a2n3gIVRkSGCh1jJw4SEAQYASABEgKIDvD_BwE


----------



## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

Page 16 from my 3100i ACT manual

"... The story of the Three Burning Stages . . .
It helps to know a little about the actual burn process, which entails three discernible burning stages. The first stage 
is called the kindling stage. During this stage the fuel reaches the boiling temperature of water, 212°F, evaporating the 
moisture found to some degree in all wood. 
Because the process takes heat from the insert during this initial drying stage, each new load of wood reduces the chances for a good, clean burn. For this reason it is always best to burn dry, seasoned firewood, and operate the controls properly. 
The control on the right side of your insert is called the Start-Up Air Control and is used primarily during this first kindling stage of burning. 
During the secondary stage, the wood gives off flammable gases which burn above the fuel with bright flames. These flames above the fuel must be maintained until the third stage to insure proper burning. During this stage you may adjust your insert for a low burn rate. To achieve a low burn rate it is necessary to close down the air while still maintaining some flames. If the flames tend to go out, the setting is too low. The Primary Control, located in the center of the insert beneath 
the ashcatcher, will assist you in adjusting the insert for a low burn rate.
The third stage of burning is the charcoal stage. This happens when the flammable gases have been burned and the charcoal remains. The coals burning with hot blue flames is a naturally clean portion of the burn. It is very important to reload your insert while enough lively hot coals remain in order to provide the amount of heat needed to dry and rekindle the next load of wood. Open up both controls for a short while before reloading to liven up the coal bed. You should also 
break up any large chunks and distribute the coals so the new wood is laid on hot coals. Leave both controls open until the new wood load is burning well enough to maintain the secondary stage of burning and then set controls to your desired heat output setting..."
Keep in mind you will only get about 10k btus (maybe only 80% of that) of heat at the low setting, so this setting is really good after you have brought the space to desired temp. or if you are supplementing your regular house heat.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

begreen said:


> I think this stove has a convection deck lid. (VirginiaIron please verify) If so, the temperature in that location is not going to be lower than the actual stove top temp. Try moving the thermometer to the front face of the stove above either door corner and see what it reads.


Yes.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> Page 16 from my 3100i ACT manual
> 
> "... The story of the Three Burning Stages . . .
> It helps to know a little about the actual burn process, which entails three discernible burning stages. The first stage
> ...



Thank you! Very helpful. I have read the manual to my stove and watched some videos as well. Starting to get the hang of using the controls. Have maintained a fire all day today. I have been setting some wood in front of the stove to help it dry and it seems to have helped.
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
Current temp.


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## Rickb (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My magnetic thermometer that the chimney sweep guy gave me says 600 is too high.




Do you have any new construction near you?  I take the kids and we get 2x4, 2x6, 2x8 construction scraps to use as kindling.  They just trow them away.  And as posted earlier you can get some compressed blocks.  I bought a pallet of them and use them when its to cold/snowy to get to my stacks.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Thank you! Very helpful. I have read the manual to my stove and watched some videos as well. Starting to get the hang of using the controls. Have maintained a fire all day today. I have been setting some wood in front of the stove to help it dry and it seems to have helped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering how long to keep the blower on. The chimney guy told me not to put it higher then medium. When I turn it off not much heat comes out but really don't want to be running it too long and use alot of electricity.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

Rickb said:


> Do you have any new construction near you?  I take the kids and we get 2x4, 2x6, 2x8 construction scraps to use as kindling.  They just trow them away.  And as posted earlier you can get some compressed blocks.  I bought a pallet of them and use them when its to cold/snowy to get to my stacks.



The scraps don't have to be seasoned? I would like to try the compressed bricks. How much is a pallet and how long does the pallet last?


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## Rickb (Oct 27, 2018)

The construction scraps are pine and usually kiln dried so they are very dry.  I think I paid 200 for a full pallet but I have been using that pallet for 3 years now.  I mix it with my other wood.  If your wood is marginal you might be able to mix to get through the year.

I usually buy wood in the spring for the fall 18 or so months in the future so I know its been drying for a while.  That seems to keep me in the 16% - 19% range that my stove really works well with.


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## Rickb (Oct 27, 2018)

You can also go to home depot and lowes and buy scrap wood pretty cheap or free sometimes.  They have cut offs they have from customer cuts and broken/defective wood.  Just make sure its clean and has no paint or stains on it and is real wood not plywood/mdf.


shoulda seen me driving down the road with my ford focus loaded up with crap wood from lowes once time.  my wife was laughing so hard she fell over when I pulled in the driveway.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

Rickb said:


> The construction scraps are pine and usually kiln dried so they are very dry.  I think I paid 200 for a full pallet but I have been using that pallet for 3 years now.  I mix it with my other wood.  If your wood is marginal you might be able to mix to get through the year.
> 
> I usually buy wood in the spring for the fall 18 or so months in the future so I know its been drying for a while.  That seems to keep me in the 16% - 19% range that my stove really works well with.



I know now for next year to buy the wood ahead of time. I thought the wood I bought was ready to go. Is wood from pallets good to use for kindling? I always see posts for free pallets?


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## Rickb (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I know now for next year to buy the wood ahead of time. I thought the wood I bought was ready to go. Is wood from pallets good to use for kindling? I always see posts for free pallets?



Depends on the pallets.  As long as it is not painted or stained should be fine.


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## begreen (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> My magnetic thermometer that the chimney sweep guy gave me says 600 is too high.


That is a stove pipe thermometer, not a stove top thermometer. The ranges are different. Just go by the temperature. Try it on the stove face over the door.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I was wondering how long to keep the blower on. The chimney guy told me not to put it higher then medium. When I turn it off not much heat comes out but really don't want to be running it too long and use alot of electricity.


I do not think it burns a lot of electricity. I felt as long as the air was hot or warm it was beneficial. 
If your wood is stacked, probably the most beneficial investment might be black plastic over the top third of the stack to help it heat and dry. There are some people here that use homemade kilns to dry their wood. Anyway, next years wood is best covered now. 
Maybe a neighbor is willing to trade some dry wood for your undried wood or just help you out.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 27, 2018)

I had a small pile of uncovered wood that has been split almost two years, it felt dry but it did not burn well. Some say it is not necessary, I say cover your wood. When we lived in CO. At 8900 feet, we didn't need to cover the wood since it was a different environment and things dried out quickly. Here in Virginia, even the leaves seem to have a higher moisture content.


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## deborita3 (Oct 27, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> I do not think it burns a lot of electricity. I felt as long as the air was hot or warm it was beneficial.
> If your wood is stacked, probably the most beneficial investment might be black plastic over the top third of the stack to help it heat and dry. There are some people here that use homemade kilns to dry their wood. Anyway, next years wood is best covered now.
> Maybe a neighbor is willing to trade some dry wood for your undried wood or just help you out.[/QUOTE
> 
> My husband has it covered now. Are you suppose to leave some of the wood exposed so it gets some air?


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## stovelark (Oct 27, 2018)

Holy Toledo-  The 3100I ACT had two air controls, the startup on the right lower, the main control in the center.  Air controls on quads are like accelerators, pushing them in gives more gas.  The startup is left open (pushed in) until the stove gets going, then its pulled out (closed) and your burn rate is adjusted with the center control.  Adjust it for your comfort and burn temp.  I don't like the big rutland thermometers, I find them unreliable. That quad is an easy to use, extremely reliable burner, it will heat the heck out of 1200 sqft with good dry wood.  If you're having trouble, its prob the wood.  I do think the 3100I had a top plate to read the temp??  The blower is only manually controlled with that stove, no snapdisc to turn it on and off.  A nice, reliable heater- if used with seasoned wood.


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## showrguy (Oct 27, 2018)

Since nobody else said this yet..... YOUR WOOD IS TOO WET


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## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

stovelark said:


> Holy Toledo-  The 3100I ACT had two air controls, the startup on the right lower, the main control in the center.  Air controls on quads are like accelerators, pushing them in gives more gas.  The startup is left open (pushed in) until the stove gets going, then its pulled out (closed) and your burn rate is adjusted with the center control.  Adjust it for your comfort and burn temp.  I don't like the big rutland thermometers, I find them unreliable. That quad is an easy to use, extremely reliable burner, it will heat the heck out of 1200 sqft with good dry wood.  If you're having trouble, its prob the wood.  I do think the 3100I had a top plate to read the temp??  The blower is only manually controlled with that stove, no snapdisc to turn it on and off.  A nice, reliable heater- if used with seasoned wood.



I think it is the wood since I had it going all day today and the rooms down the hall weren't very warm. The thermostat in the hallway registered 65 degrees all day. Not good. In the dining room and living room it was about 76.


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## ChuckTSI (Oct 28, 2018)

I have had problems lighting as well as the initial burn, but am now able to do it consistently.

- throw 3 medium sized logs on the bottom, jam crumpled newspaper between
- Place 2 or 3 small split across (like a log cabin).  Crumpled newspaper between.
- Then I throw a pile of kindling on top and light it with torch or those compressed blocks of wood (burn for 5 mins)
- Open the draft, open the primary air and then keep the door open just a bit.

Once flue temps are around 400-500.. I close down the draft.
The fire will slow a bit.. but then it will come back. Once it looks like the entire box is filled with flame (almost violent looking).. I close the door.
I watch the fire for the next 5 mins. If it's still roaring. I set the primary air to 1/2 or lower.

Once you have a really hot bed of coals, you can throw new wood on, leave door slightly open for a minute or two, then close it ensuring your primary air is at least set to 1/2 way for the first 5 minutes.

My wood is 17% or lower, but still hear sizzling and have some hard starts occasionally
Hopefully you get a routine down that works for you.

If you have ceiling fans.. use them. Or any other fan. they barely use any hyrdo (my ceiling fan uses 10watts on low speed.  that's about 1$ a month.)

I also bought one of those fans that sit on the stove and despite it not moving much air (that you can feel).. I have had my kitchen increase by 3 degrees in temp (farthest from the stove. 20 feet/separate room). If I want more heat, I just use a pedestal fan.


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## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

showrguy said:


> Since nobody else said this yet..... YOUR WOOD IS TOO WET



Your right LOL


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## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> I have had problems lighting as well as the initial burn, but am now able to do it consistently.
> 
> - throw 3 medium sized logs on the bottom, jam crumpled newspaper between
> - Place 2 or 3 small split across (like a log cabin).  Crumpled newspaper between.
> ...



Thanks. I will try that. How many hours do those logs last before you need to reload? My main problem is some of the wood is not dry enough.


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## begreen (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I think it is the wood since I had it going all day today and the rooms down the hall weren't very warm. The thermostat in the hallway registered 65 degrees all day. Not good. In the dining room and living room it was about 76.


Is this a colonial with rooms around a central hallway? If so it may take some assistance to move the heat better around to the other rooms.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 28, 2018)

Keep as much rain off your wood pile as you can, and provide as much air flow as you can get.
A shed is best, but I use tarps that I TRY not to extend more than one foot down the side. 
I'm sure some on here have different methods of drying and are willing to share their experiences.


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## ChuckTSI (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Thanks. I will try that. How many hours do those logs last before you need to reload? My main problem is some of the wood is not dry enough.



Depends. First fire last me about an hour as I am trying to build coals. After that I usually will get about 3-4 hours on some medium sized logs (3-4).  If you need longer, try tossing the coals to one side. Place your biggest/heaviest wet piece on the opposite side and place your medium drier stuff on the coals moving towards the wet log.  I can go to bed and wake up 7 hours later with coals still going.  The fire on the right, will dry out the log on the left, and by the time it makes it way over, then the log will burn. It's like adding a timer to your fire 

As for getting heat to rooms, you have no choice but to use fans with wood stoves. (or create pass through for heat to move) Heat barely makes it to my master bedroom on second level. So I assist with electric heat in that room and it's set on timer to heat before we go to bed and  just before we wake up.  (so far it only costs about 20 cents a day to do that).  We also have heated mattress pads. very little cost to running those also. (about 10 cents / night)

I live in a gappy old 160 year old stone home, so it's a challenge to heat. Especially at -40F.  (yes.. that is a minus sign before that).
Last year (in -30 to -40) in the room the stove was in, would only heat to 57F degrees. all other rooms sat around 50F.  I spent all this year sealing gaps and making sure no drafts. Caulking windows, changing door seals, adding foam sealant to larger gaps. Adding Fans. Getting insulated roman blinds, etc etc.

I have also added a fresh air intake and so far, it has drastically changed the way the house heat behaves. A wood stove can exchange all the air in a 2000 sqft house in 15 mins. There were huge cold drafts in the house before it.

It will take time to learn what works and how to to move air. Just try different fan placements to start. even the tiniest fan to get air moving in the direction you want the heat helps.  Wood stoves aren't like furnaces and baseboard heat. (nice even heat everywhere).  Trying to run a stove like that costs you more in wood and might not be cheaper than propane furnaces or other sources of heat.

I ran through 6 cords (18 face cords) of wood last heating season.


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## Rickb (Oct 28, 2018)

Try to place a small fan on the floor in the colder area and blow towards the warmer areas.  I know it sounds backwards but colder air is denser and easier to move.  The warm air will then move towards the cooler area.  You can test how well its working by taping a small piece of toilet paper to the ceiling in the hall leading into your cool areas.  You will see it not moving then torn on the small fan on the floor and you will see it start moving as the warm air comes in fill the lower pressure.


----------



## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> Depends. First fire last me about an hour as I am trying to build coals. After that I usually will get about 3-4 hours on some medium sized logs (3-4).  If you need longer, try tossing the coals to one side. Place your biggest/heaviest wet piece on the opposite side and place your medium drier stuff on the coals moving towards the wet log.  I can go to bed and wake up 7 hours later with coals still going.  The fire on the right, will dry out the log on the left, and by the time it makes it way over, then the log will burn. It's like adding a timer to your fire
> 
> As for getting heat to rooms, you have no choice but to use fans with wood stoves. (or create pass through for heat to move) Heat barely makes it to my master bedroom on second level. So I assist with electric heat in that room and it's set on timer to heat before we go to bed and  just before we wake up.  (so far it only costs about 20 cents a day to do that).  We also have heated mattress pads. very little cost to running those also. (about 10 cents / night)
> 
> ...



Thank you for all of the advice and info. If I have to use 6 cords of wood it would probably be cheaper to use my furnace.


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## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

begreen said:


> Is this a colonial with rooms around a central hallway? If so it may take some assistance to move the heat better around to the other rooms.



It's a ranch with bedrooms and bath down the hall


----------



## weatherguy (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Thank you for all of the advice and info. If I have to use 6 cords of wood it would probably be cheaper to use my furnace.


You wont in your climate, hes in the frozen north.


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## begreen (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> It's a ranch with bedrooms and bath down the hall


The issue you report is very common with ranch houses. We hear the same complaint many times a year. The solution is to pull cooler air from the bedrooms or at least from the hallway and push it into the stove room. This can be done simply with a table or box fan at the far end of the hallway, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. The fan will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the hallway temp after about 30 minutes running.

A more sophisticated and permanent way of doing this would be to cut a 6x10 intake grille in the floor of the 2 far bedrooms and run an insulated duct from them into a Y and then a quiet inline 150 cfm fan with the output duct going to the stove room. This can be controlled by a air conditioning thermostat in the stove room so that it makes contact when the stove room temps exceed a certain temp, say 74º. for best operation the bedroom doors should be left ajar or the bottom cut up a little (or a grille on the door, etc.) to allow airflow from the room with the doors closed.


----------



## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

Rickb said:


> Try to place a small fan on the floor in the colder area and blow towards the warmer areas.  I know it sounds backwards but colder air is denser and easier to move.  The warm air will then move towards the cooler area.  You can test how w
> ell its working by taping a small piece of toilet paper to the ceiling in the hall leading into your cool areas.  You will see it not moving then torn on the small fan on the floor and you will see it start moving as the warm air comes in fill the lower pressure.



Put the fan in the hallway. Will see how it works. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Dix (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I was wondering how long to keep the blower on. The chimney guy told me not to put it higher then medium. When I turn it off not much heat comes out but really don't want to be running it too long and use alot of electricity.



Electricty is minimum.... it's a fan. Use it.


----------



## Dix (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I know now for next year to buy the wood ahead of time. I thought the wood I bought was ready to go. Is wood from pallets good to use for kindling? I always see posts for free pallets?



Snatch them up.


----------



## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Put the fan in the hallway. Will see how it works. Thanks for the suggestion!



So after putting the fan in the hallway it did warm the hallway and rooms a little bit. That was a good idea. The living room and dining room stayed at 78 degrees all day which is good for me and my husband. Fire started up much better today. We are starting to get the hang of it and appreciate all the help from everyone on this site. It has helped us tremendously. Thank you all!


----------



## Dix (Oct 28, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> So after putting the fan in the hallway it did warm the hallway and rooms a little bit. That was a good idea. The living room and dining room stayed at 78 degrees all day which is good for me and my husband. Fire started up much better today. We are starting to get the hang of it and appreciate all the help from everyone on this site. It has helped us tremendously. Thank you all!



You'll get the hang of it, Deb 

Nice to see another Sistah here


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## deborita3 (Oct 28, 2018)

Dix said:


> You'll get the hang of it, Deb
> 
> Nice to see another Sistah here



Thank you! I'm trying Lol


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

So everyone here knows alot more about firewood than I do. How much wood does this look like. A 1/2 cord, 1 cord?


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Hard to tell. Maybe 1/3d cord? (called a face cord or rick in some locations)


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> Hard to tell. Maybe 1/3d cord?



It was delivered yesterday. I asked for 1 cord and this is what I got. I did t think it was a cord since I have looked on YouTube to learn about cords of wood and how to keep the wood dry etc. but just wanted to make sure before I contact the guy who delivered. it.


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## DaveInPhilly (Oct 30, 2018)

Hey deborita3, I have that same stove and I have a scan of the manual, I am not sure how to upload it, but if you PM me your email address I'll send it to you. 

Just to confirm, both knobs all the way IN for start up. Then, after the fire gets going you pull the start up air nob all the way OUT and control temp with the center knob, in for more air, out for less air. 

I measure my temp on the stove top and keep it between 500-600. No idea if that's ideal, but it keeps my house warm and my stove and chimney are both in good health.

Also - pictures can be deceiving, but that looks like a lot less than a cord to me.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> It was delivered yesterday. I asked for 1 cord and this is what I got. I did t think it was a cord since I have looked on YouTube to learn about cords of wood and how to keep the wood dry etc. but just wanted to make sure before I contact the guy who delivered. it.


I suspect it's a face cord. What was the price?


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

DaveInPhilly said:


> Hey deborita3, I have that same stove and I have a scan of the manual, I am not sure how to upload it, but if you PM me your email address I'll send it to you.
> 
> Just to confirm, both knobs all the way IN for start up. Then, after the fire gets going you pull the start up air nob all the way OUT and control temp with the center knob, in for more air, out for less air.
> 
> ...



My husband is going to stack it when he gets home. I know a cord is 4x4x8 so I'll see what it comes to.

Thanks for the manual!! I will PM my email address.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

A face cord will stack 16" x 4' x 8'


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> I suspect it's a face cord. What was the price?




$175


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> A face cord will stack 16" x 4' x 8'



He told me a cord. 1/2 cord $80 1 cord $175


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

I would stack it exactly 8 ft wide and 4 ft tall so that there is no wiggle room on the seller's part. You might also check your states weights and measures division. In WA state the rules are quite clear and strictly enforced.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> I would stack it exactly 8 ft wide and 4 ft tall so that there is no wiggle room on the seller's part. You might also check your states weights and measures division. In WA state the rules are quite clear and strictly enforced.



Where can I find the info about my state, just Google it?


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Where can I find the info about my state, just Google it?


How do you PM on here?


----------



## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> How do you PM on here?


In the upper right corner there is a little envelope symbol. Click on that.


----------



## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Where can I find the info about my state, just Google it?



*In New York, all firewood sales and advertising must include the three dimensions of the wood, that is length, width, and height, with the wood ranked and well stowed.*

https://www.agriculture.ny.gov/WM/WMwood.html

Did you get a receipt? ( also required by NYS).


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> *In New York, all firewood sales and advertising must include the three dimensions of the wood, that is length, width, and height, with the wood ranked and well stowed.*
> 
> https://www.agriculture.ny.gov/WM/WMwood.html
> 
> Did you get a receipt? ( also required by NYS).



No receipt but I saved the texts we exchanged where he told me the price for 1 cord. I have his name as well and his advertisement. He delivers in my neighborhood that I just moved into a few months ago. His advertisement doesn't mention the measurements or how long it's been seasoned. I texted him and asked how long it's been seasoned and he didn't answer.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Most likely not seasoned or it it is, just for a few weeks or months. Truly seasoned wood goes for a premium price and is rare.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> Most likely not seasoned or it it is, just for a few weeks or months. Truly seasoned wood goes for a premium price and is rare.



He advertised it as seasoned. He delivered it in his pickup truck. I read the link you posted and it said it's not possible to put a cord in a pickup truck because it would be too high. I was expecting he to make 2 deliveries because there would be alot of wood. He only delivered 1 truck load.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

A pickup load is definitely not a full cord or even close. If the wood is actually not seasoned and burnable you may need to have this fellow take his wood back and reimburse you. It would help to do an actual moisture reading on the inside of the wood, but regardless weights and measures will back you up on the shorting. Document everything including a shot of his advertisement.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> A pickup load is definitely not a full cord or even close.



I got ripped off. Definitely will pursue it to either get my money back or have him bring more wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I got ripped off. Definitely will pursue it to either get my money back or have him bring more wood.



When I click on a members name I am not seeing the envelope to msg them


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> When I click on a members name I am not seeing the envelope to msg them


Double click on the envelope symbol at the top right of this website page first. Then click on the big, blue, Start a New Conversation button.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

My husband and I stacked the wood tonight. We used pallets which are 4ft, we measured to 8ft long. In the pic you can see three boards attached to the pallet. The boards are a little over 3ft high. This clearly isn't a cord of wood


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Not quite a third of a cord. Did you pay for a full cord? Is the wood heavy and wet inside or dry?


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## Rickb (Oct 30, 2018)

No its a face cord also known as a rick, also known as a 1/3 cord.  And 175 is a lot for a face cord.  I get full cords at 175 dumped 210 they stack it for me.  Also that is not seasoned.  You can tell by looking at it.  But all wood sellers say there wood is seasoned.  Next time ask them what the % moisture is.  Anything over 22% is not seasoned.  Even 22% is high.  I always ask them to deliver there most seasoned wood they have then I leave it stacked for 18 months or so before I try to burn it.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Time to call him up and ask when the other two pickup truck loads will be delivered. If he gives you any grief, remind him of the NYS weights and measures requirements and ask if he is licensed to sell wood. I


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> Not quite a third of a cord. Did you pay for a full cord? Is the wood heavy and wet inside or dry?



I paid for a cord. I asked how much for a cord and he said $175. He didn't say a face cord or a rick


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

He has 3 choices. Make good and deliver the other 2/3ds of the cord, reimburse you and pickup his wood, or be reported and face a visitation and stiff fine from weights and measures. Personally I'd go for option 2, the wood doesn't look seasoned.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

Does it not look seasoned because of the color of the wood?

I spoke with him. He agreed to bring more but first said we didn't pay him $175, only $85. We withdrew $175 and we are honest people. He didn't even count it when my husband gave it to him. He said he stuck it in his console and counted it after he left and there was only $85 so he said he thought we only wanted a truck load. He later said he may have mixed up the money with another customer and that customer cheated him. 

If your saying the wood isn't seasoned then I can't use it so it may be better to just have him pick it up.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Sorry to say but this fellow sounds shady and that is a bogus excuse. You ordered a cord and he showed up with a pickup load. That was before he put any money anywhere. 

The wood looks freshly split. The wood will darken as it seasons. It will also start to check on the ends and will feel notably lighter as the moisture content decreases.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> He told me a cord. 1/2 cord $80 1 cord $175


Usually there is a discount for buying more.  I'd have probably ordered 2 half cords (80+80=160 vs 175).  That was a tip-off that the seller was not the sharpest tool in the shed.  You're getting good advice, good luck getting things straightened out.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Usually there is a discount for buying more.  I'd have probably ordered 2 half cords (80+80=160 vs 175).  That was a tip-off that the seller was not the sharpest tool in the shed.  You're getting good advice, good luck getting things straightened out.



He doesn't seem organized or know what he's doing. I won't be getting anymore from him.  I only tried him because he delivers in the neighborhood and I joined an online neighborhood site for my area and didnt hear anything negative about him. People in the neighborhood post alot about good and bad experiences they have recommend or not recommend someone.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

He is not selling legally. That is your hole card. If he is only taking cash he may not be reporting it to the IRS either.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> He doesn't seem organized or know what he's doing. I won't be getting anymore from him.  I only tried him because he delivers in the neighborhood and I joined an online neighborhood site for my area and didnt hear anything negative about him. People in the neighborhood post alot about good and bad experiences they have recommend or not recommend someone.


Well, I do hope you get what you paid for.  Your story sure makes me glad I have a little woodlot and bunch of neighbors who are looking to get rid of wood.  And, a chainsaw.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> Sorry to say but this fellow sounds shady and that is a bogus excuse. You ordered a cord and he showed up with a pickup load. That was before he put any money anywhere.
> 
> The wood looks freshly split. The wood will darken as it seasons. It will also start to check on the ends and will feel notably lighter as the moisture content decreases.



I agree. He claims he counted the money after he left saw there was $85 which is not the case. Gave him $175 . He must have picked up someone else's payment(not very organized)He said when he saw there was only $85 he thought we only wanted a 1/2 cord so he didn't come back with more even though my text msg asked for a full cord. Won't be doing business with him anymore.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

He owes you either wood or cash back.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Well, I do hope you get what you paid for.  Your story sure makes me glad I have a little woodlot and bunch of neighbors who are looking to get rid of wood.  And, a chainsaw.



We just moved here. Use to live in a condo before we got the house. There are alot of trees here in my neighborhood and my backyard. My husband needs to get a chainsaw and cut our own wood. Maybe next year. We have only been here 4 months and had some other priorities so couldn't get a chainsaw or log splitter.


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## deborita3 (Oct 30, 2018)

begreen said:


> He owes you either wood or cash back.



He's bringing more wood. We can let.it dry and use it for next year and order more from someone more professional.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> We just moved here. Use to live in a condo before we got the house. There are alot of trees here in my neighborhood and my backyard. My husband needs to get a chainsaw and cut our own wood. Maybe next year. We have only been here 4 months and had some other priorities so couldn't get a chainsaw or log splitter.


You are right, your husband definitely needs to get a chainsaw.  Maybe you, too.  Your new nickname in the neighborhood could be "Chainsaw Deborita".  The other ladies would talk and talk.  

And you both need to get your priorities straight. ;-)  Wood first!


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2018)

Expect to pay a premium for seasoned wood, especially at this time of year. Here are a couple in your area. This company says they only sell seasoned and kiln dried wood. Reviews well.
https://cordkingfirewood.com/

and another for "seasoned" wood, but the pitch sounds dubious.
http://www.hotasswood.com/firewood---heating-pellet-sales.html


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## cbscout (Oct 30, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> ... I only tried him because he delivers in the neighborhood and I joined an online neighborhood site for my area and didnt hear anything negative about him. People in the neighborhood post alot about good and bad experiences they have recommend or not recommend someone.


Deborita,

You're probably talking about Nextdoor.com or something like it. You're right, you can get some good info from the neighborhood. I've also learned to double check them though with things like this, as most are ignorant about the details, and only burn in their fireplace occasionally or in their firepit in the warmer seasons.

This is my first season burning, and I just had an insert installed, so I was late getting wood. I had to depend on finding an honest seller. I have gone to each one's property and tested the wood moisture content myself - asked them straight out to cut a fresh split, even when they told me it had just been split. Hey, you're paying for it. Definitely worth the investment of the time and effort, since I hadn't had the opportunity to season any wood myself. Sorry you got caught in that circumstance. I finally found someone who had a good bit of dry ash that will give me (hopefully) most of what I need for the winter - gave him information that helped him know what to look for as a new firewood provider, too.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

cbscout said:


> Deborita,
> 
> You're probably talking about Nextdoor.com or something like it. You're right, you can get some good info from the neighborhood. I've also learned to double check them though with things like this, as most are ignorant about the details, and only burn in their fireplace occasionally or in their firepit in the warmer seasons.
> 
> This is my first season burning, and I just had an insert installed, so I was late getting wood. I had to depend on finding an honest seller. I have gone to each one's property and tested the wood moisture content myself - asked them straight out to cut a fresh split, even when they told me it had just been split. Hey, you're paying for it. Definitely worth the investment of the time and effort, since I hadn't had the opportunity to season any wood myself. Sorry you got caught in that circumstance. I finally found someone who had a good bit of dry ash that will give me (hopefully) most of what I need for the winter - gave him information that helped him know what to look for as a new firewood provider, too.



Yes I was talking about next-door.com I definitely don't use that site for my ultimate decision on choosing someone as it is my responsibility to check someone out but I do get some good info. 

This is our first season as well. We never had a wood stove. We lived in a condo for many years and growing up we didn't have one either so this was all new to me. I had never heard of a cord of wood before LOL but this site and videos on YouTube have taught me alot. We will definitely be prepared next winter. Thanks for your post!


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

DaveInPhilly, did you get my PM about the manual you have?


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## edyit (Oct 31, 2018)

i know i've mentioned it before, but have you looked into the compressed wood blocks? they would seem ideal for someone in your situation.


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## cbscout (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Yes I was talking about next-door.com I definitely don't use that site for my ultimate decision on choosing someone as it is my responsibility to check someone out but I do get some good info.


I may have come across wrong regarding how you were interacting with the neighborhood on nextdoor.com. Sorry about that. Wasn't assuming you didn't know to double check people's info.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

edyit said:


> i know i've mentioned it before, but have you looked into the compressed wood blocks? they would seem ideal for someone in your situation.



Yes, I saw them at Lowes


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

cbscout said:


> I may have come across wrong regarding how you were interacting with the neighborhood on nextdoor.com. Sorry about that. Wasn't assuming you didn't know to double check people's info.



No worries. I didn't take it that way. I appreciate all the help I have received here!


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

When stacking a cord of wood on a pallet do you stack 3 rows across or 2?


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## charger4406 (Oct 31, 2018)

2 rows dries better.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

charger4406 said:


> 2 rows dries better.



A cord of wood is 4x8x4. My pallet is 4ft wide and three rows fits perfectly. I never stacked a cord of wood before so I want to know the right way to do it to see if I have exactly 1 cord.


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## charger4406 (Oct 31, 2018)

3 rows that are 16" wide x 4' high x 8' long


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

charger4406 said:


> 3 rows that are 16" wide x 4' high x 8' long



Isn't that a face cord. I thought a cord was.4ft wide


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

This what he delivered today. 1 more truck loads for 1 cord. I have them stacked in 3 rows but it's definitely not 4' high


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## charger4406 (Oct 31, 2018)

it's actually 3 face cords which equals 1 cord, 3 x 16 inches wide makes 4 feet, so it equals 4' x 4' x 8'


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## maple1 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Isn't that a face cord. I thought a cord was.4ft wide



One 16" row would be a face cord. Three rows would be a real cord.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> A cord of wood is 4x8x4. My pallet is 4ft wide and three rows fits perfectly. I never stacked a cord of wood before so I want to know the right way to do it to see if I have exactly 1 cord.


Three 16" rows to measure.  Worry about drying later.  If you have 2 skids, and can manage to get the wood stacked 4' high, you have your cord.  

Think about it like it's a shoe box, measured 4' high, 4' wide, 8' long.


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## charger4406 (Oct 31, 2018)

it does look close too a half cord, but not a full cord


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## maple1 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> View attachment 232173
> View attachment 232174
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like you might have half a cord now.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> View attachment 232173
> View attachment 232174
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, that doesn't get you to a full cord.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Looks like you might have half a cord now.



I ordered 1 cord and paid for it


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## maple1 (Oct 31, 2018)

It would be a pretty simple exercise to measure your stack of wood and see how many cubic feet are in it. A cord is 128 of them.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Nope, that doesn't get you to a full cord.


The texted me after he delivered it said it's suppose to be in 2 rows not 3 lime I have it but I don't think that will give me a cord. The third row isn't enough wood to give me what I need.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

maple1 said:


> It would be a pretty simple exercise to measure your stack of wood and see how many cubic feet are in it. A cord is 128 of them.



I will do that when I get home


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> The texted me after he delivered it said it's suppose to be in 2 rows not 3 lime I have it but I don't think that will give me a cord. The third row isn't enough wood to give me what I need.


Three 16" rows = 4'.

I like your perseverance.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Three 16" rows = 4'.
> 
> I like your perseverance.



I just want what I paid for. He delivered 2 truck loads that were flush to the truck bed. I am no expert but I don't think that equals a cord of wood


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I just want what I paid for. He delivered 2 truck loads that were flush to the truck bed. I am no expert but I don't think that equals a cord of wood


We all want you to get what you paid for.  I just think most people would have given up by now.  I wouldn't have, and you have not.  I like it.


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## maple1 (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I just want what I paid for. He delivered 2 truck loads that were flush to the truck bed. I am no expert but I don't think that equals a cord of wood



Truckloads and numbers of rows are irrelevant. It is a simple measuring and math exercise. This guy is the shadiest sounding wood selling guy I've heard of for quite a while, I think.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

Are we still talking about the stove not heating the whole house?


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## maple1 (Oct 31, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Are we still talking about the stove not heating the whole house?



Sometimes.


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## ChuckTSI (Oct 31, 2018)

Picture is worth a thousand words.

Hows the house heating going?  (keeping it on topic!)


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 31, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> View attachment 232188
> 
> 
> Picture is worth a thousand words.
> ...


Nice picture. Pictures are always good!


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## weatherguy (Oct 31, 2018)

I would threaten reporting to the dept of weights and measures if he doesnt fill your rack up. Theres too many if these half ass wood guys out there, doesnt sound reputable to me.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Three 16" rows to measure.  Worry about drying later.  If you have 2 skids, and can manage to get the wood stacked 4' high, you have your cord.
> 
> Think about it like it's a shoe box, measured 4' high, 4' wide, 8' long.



The reason  I asked about the rows


ChuckTSI said:


> View attachment 232188
> 
> 
> Picture is worth a thousand words.
> ...



Are we only suppose to talk about woodstoves? If that's the rules I won't post about the wood. 

The living room and dining room is heating good. It gets to about 78. Bedrooms are still a little cold but I don't spend much time there.


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## bholler (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> The reason  I asked about the rows
> 
> 
> Are we only suppose to talk about woodstoves? If that's the rules I won't post about the wood.
> ...


No you can talk about your wood woes here.  Its your thread and its pertinent to the problem.  They are just joking around.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

bholler said:


> No you can talk about your wood woes here.  Its your thread and its pertinent to the problem.  They are just joking around.



Ok. Just want to make sure I'm following the rules.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> I would threaten reporting to the dept of weights and measures if he doesnt fill your rack up. Theres too many if these half ass wood guys out there, doesnt sound reputable to me.



That's what I am going to do bit wanted to make sure what I have so far isn't a cord before contacting him or the Dept of weights and measures if he doesn't make things right. That was the reason for all the questions about what a cord is. I have never dealt with firewood before but after reading the posts here and doing research online I know now what the measurements are and how to stack the wood.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> View attachment 232188
> 
> 
> Picture is worth a thousand words.
> ...



Very helpful picture


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## ChuckTSI (Oct 31, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> The living room and dining room is heating good. It gets to about 78. Bedrooms are still a little cold but I don't spend much time there.



Get this for the bed.  Last year my master bedroom was 51F.  I would turn this on about 30 mins before bed on setting 5 and then once I got in was like climbing into your clothes drier full of warm clothes.  You can then just set to to 1 and be super comfy all night. Best nights of sleep were when it was cold in the room with a warm bed. And costs pennies to heat / night.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

ChuckTSI said:


> Get this for the bed.  Last year my master bedroom was 51F.  I would turn this on about 30 mins before bed on setting 5 and then once I got in was like climbing into your clothes drier full of warm clothes.  You can then just set to to 1 and be super comfy all night. Best nights of sleep were when it was cold in the room with a warm bed. And costs pennies to heat / night.
> 
> View attachment 232210



We have a comforter and 2 fleece blankets. LoL
The only thing I miss about our condo is the heat. It was included and it was always warm.


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2018)

Did you call Cord King firewood? What did they have to offer?


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

begreen said:


> Did you call Cord King firewood? What did they have to offer?



They're sold out of seasoned wood


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2018)

Any kiln dried left?


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

begreen said:


> Any kiln dried left?



Yes but $350. Not looking to spend tha that much


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2018)

I would go ahead and get a cord. You are buying very late in the season. That is not bad for true kiln dried and you may find that good quality compressed log fuel in your area will cost as much, if available.


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## deborita3 (Oct 31, 2018)

maple1 said:


> One 16" row would be a face cord. Three rows would be a real cord.





maple1 said:


> One 16" row would be a face cord. Three rows would be a real cord.



Gotcha. Thanks!


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 1, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Ok. Just want to make sure I'm following the rules.


Bholler was right on, just joking!  Wood heat should be at least a little fun.

 I wouldn't be a good sport with the seller, but then I try to keep in mind he might just be some clueless dude who needs the cash to feed his family. In any case, he needs to figure it out, get you your cord, and start delivering everyone a proper cord.


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## maple1 (Nov 1, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> That's what I am going to do bit wanted to make sure what I have so far isn't a cord before contacting him or the Dept of weights and measures if he doesn't make things right. That was the reason for all the questions about what a cord is. I have never dealt with firewood before but after reading the posts here and doing research online I know now what the measurements are and how to stack the wood.



I would try to make sure I had my head around the measuring & math before talking to officials. It doesn't matter how you stack the wood, as long as you stack it in a way that results in something you can measure with reasonable accuracy. You can stack it all in one row or stack it in 5, or in a cylinder -  it doesn't really matter. It's just measuring then doing a little simple math.


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## deborita3 (Nov 1, 2018)

maple1 said:


> I would try to make sure I had my head around the measuring & math before talking to officials. It doesn't matter how you stack the wood, as long as you stack it in a way that results in something you can measure with reasonable accuracy. You can stack it all in one row or stack it in 5, or in a cylinder -  it doesn't really matter. It's just measuring then doing a little simple math.



Your right. I have been reading about the measurements so I can do it accurately. I haven't contacted officials because I want to give him the opportunity to make things right especially since he delivers in the neighborhood. I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble. He does this on the side so he probably needs the extra money. That's why I am being very patient and trying to work it out. He was very good about it on the phone. My guess is he doesn't know how to measure a cord properly. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## weatherguy (Nov 1, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> Your right. I have been reading about the measurements so I can do it accurately. I haven't contacted officials because I want to give him the opportunity to make things right especially since he delivers in the neighborhood. I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble. He does this on the side so he probably needs the extra money. That's why I am being very patient and trying to work it out. He was very good about it on the phone. My guess is he doesn't know how to measure a cord properly. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Could be, I dealt with a guy once that thought a pickup truck full was a cord. I told him a cord is 4 x 4 x 8, is your bed that big? He got back to me and said no, its half a cord. Ignorance is probable.


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> Could be, I dealt with a guy once that thought a pickup truck full was a cord. I told him a cord is 4 x 4 x 8, is your bed that big? He got back to me and said no, its half a cord. Ignorance is probable.


Had the same issue with a local wood seller. Drugs may also be probable.


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## Trey1979 (Nov 1, 2018)

begreen said:


> Had the same issue with a local wood seller. Drugs may also be probable.


Ha hes smoking up the woodpile for the winter..ha ha....joke kind like selling your a.c cause it ain't hot out no more...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## deborita3 (Nov 1, 2018)

I contacted the guy who delivered the wood and told him I only have a little over 1/2 cord. He is claiming he gave more than a cord. He said he gave me 2 truck loads that I asked for. I didn't ask for 2 truck loads. I asked how much for 1 cord, he said $175 and I said I will take 1 cord (not 2 truck loads) he accused me of being petty. I asked if he was going to refund me my money and take the wood back. He didn't answer. He told me it's suppose to be stacked in 2 rows and three like I have it. I told him it doesn't matter as long as the measurements come out to 128 cubic ft. 128 is 128

Thoughts suggestions?

I mentioned the Dept of weights and measures. He didn't seem to care and told me he will never deliver to me again( I had no intention of ever ordering from him again.

My measurements are 4ft deep 8 ft long and about 2ft-2ft 4" high

His wood.is in different  sizes. Some 15"  15 1/2 16"  16 1/2  17" Most are in the 16-161/2 range.


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2018)

That does not look like 1/2 cord in the picture you posted. My next call would be to the local state agricultural office. The fellow is a rip-off, definitely not a reputable wood seller. Ask the state if they will help you get your money back in exchange for returning the wood.


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## showrguy (Nov 1, 2018)

begreen said:


> That does not look like 1/2 cord in the picture you posted. My next call would be to the local state agricultural office. The fellow is a rip-off, definitely not a reputable wood seller. Ask the state if they will help you get your money back in exchange for returning the wood.


Or get half of your money back and keep what you have, you allready did the work to set up and stack it..
Did you get a moisture meter yet ??


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## deborita3 (Nov 1, 2018)

showrguy said:


> Or get half of your money back and keep what you have, you allready did the work to set up and stack it..
> Did you get a moisture meter yet ??



I texted him to ask if he would agree to that but my message didn't go through. Looks like he blocked me. Unfortunately I had to call Dept of weights and measures and they were going to contact him. 

I tried everything to work it out before reporting it. All he had to do was the right thing.


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## deborita3 (Nov 1, 2018)

begreen said:


> That does not look like 1/2 cord in the picture you posted. My next call would be to the local state agricultural office. The fellow is a rip-off, definitely not a reputable wood seller. Ask the state if they will help you get your money back in exchange for returning the wood.



I called the dept of weights and measures. They suggested having him deliver more. They contacted him, he delivered more and again told me it's not suppose to be in rows but 2. The wood is extremely wet like I sprayed a hose on it. The other delivery wasn't like this. Just him being spiteful. Not a good person. Oh well nothing more I can do but move on


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## weatherguy (Nov 1, 2018)

deborita3 said:


> I called the dept of weights and measures. They suggested having him deliver more. They contacted him, he delivered more and again told me it's not suppose to be in rows but 2. The wood is extremely wet like I sprayed a hose on it. The other delivery wasn't like this. Just him being spiteful. Not a good person. Oh well nothing more I can do but move on


You should have printed a picture if what a cord is, he might not be the brightest bulb.


----------

