# Burn test of old stoves.



## oldspark (Aug 23, 2013)

I found this interesting, they tested these five pre epa stoves to see how they burnt, even the best is at least 2 to 3 times dirtier then the epa stoves, not sure how that relates to the visable smoke  coming out of the chimeny and seems like the big difference would be during the gaseous state not later in the burn.
 You will also notice some of the stoves were way less efficient then others by a far margin.
http://www.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei16/session5/victor.pdf
Sorry if this has been posted before.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Aug 24, 2013)

That's really interesting and not unexpected. The particulate matter results would certainly relate to the visible smoke coming out the chimney.


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## oldspark (Aug 24, 2013)

One thing interesting is how much lower the particulate matter is then what some sites report in their comparrision of the EPA stoves vs the old ones, in some cases half or more, and that is only going to be in the gases state of the fire. But that is a good amount of heat gained over the old stoves.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Aug 26, 2013)

Yes, it's a big difference. It's good to have all the facts when deciding whether it's worth it to upgrade an older, pre-EPA stove.


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## oldspark (Aug 26, 2013)

I hope you understood my post, the old stoves (some) burn much cleaner then what is reported on some sites, and the efficiency can be higher then what some think, I believe in many cases they are using the worst stoves for their figures.
I am NOT defending my old stove or any one elses for that matter, its just so many people think they were all bad and not the case by any means.
I think some of the old stoves actually burnt some of the gases but to what extent and how much I have no idea.


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## KaptJaq (Aug 26, 2013)

An old stove can be burned HOT and clean but it does waste a lot of heat up the flue...  A new stove can also be burned very dirty.  It is more how the stove is burned (and the quality of the fuel).

From what I have seen it is easier to get long clean burns from a modern stove using less wood but, if I had easy access to dry wood, I would not get rid of an older stove that was still in good condition.

KaptJaq


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2013)

I think the assumptions that many people think ALL old stoves are poor burners and that ALL single-wall stove pipe will only last a few years are false. Most people in the wood burning industry know that there were some better examples and attempts at cleaner burning and efficiency in older stoves. Go back 20 years and Jotul, Vermont Castings, Upland, Tempwood, Kent TileFire, Lange, Morso, Dovre and Nashua were some exceptions. Go back 40 years and not so many. That said, when put on the bench and instrumented, modern EPA stoves do a much better job at burning cleanly with the same charge of fuel.


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## oldspark (Aug 26, 2013)

"I think the assumptions that many people think ALL old stoves are poor burners and that ALL single-wall stove pipe will only last a few years are false"
Many on here (not the majority) have stated just that.
Otherwise I agree with your post.


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## begreen (Aug 26, 2013)

Get over it, opinions are just that. Doesn't make them right or wrong.


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## Pallet Pete (Aug 26, 2013)

When we where little on occasion we would see what we now know as a secondary flame going in our smoke dragon. My old wonderwood also did that from time to time. I opened the door up and there was a big flame bouncing around on top and no wood burning ! It really freaked me out big time until my neighbor explained what it was all about. I have come to realize dry wood no matter the stove burns well. My buddy runs a fisher to heat his hardware and though a lot of work to keep going in the dead of winter it heats it up nice with dry wood. Even the smallest amount of water and your freezing. 

Pete


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## oldspark (Aug 26, 2013)

begreen said:


> Get over it sparky, opinions are just that.


 There you go again, just trying to point out the facts, I assumed knowing there are good old stoves out there and single wall pipe can and does last a long time was a worth while point.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Aug 26, 2013)

My only additional point on single wall vs double wall is that single wall pipe can last a long time, but it is much more dependant on the type of steel used, the thickness, and especially the burning conditions. It's much more vulnerable to the corrosive effects of creosote and moisture and, since it doesn't keep the interior temperature as hot as well as double wall, it's more likely to have creosote condense on it. It's especially important for a tall interior chimney where the flue gasses can cool off considerably the higher up they go in single wall pipe. We've found single wall slip connectors on a tall ceiling that were like swiss cheese and barely hanging on up high were you don't notice it. I've had another couple of customers that actually had them corrode all the way through and the chimney pipe fall over while a fire was going. Not good!


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## oldspark (Aug 26, 2013)

I always have always tracked my flue temps and never smoldered my fires, begining to think that is why i have never had any problems with my flue pipe or creosote, my 30 year old stove pipe shows no signs of wear.
Not defending single wall pipe, make up your own mind, pay no attention to me.
I take my flue pipe apart every year so any problems would be seen coming.


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## oldspark (Aug 26, 2013)

Another thing I can help they are burning wet wood, dont think you see those problems with nice dry wood.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Aug 30, 2013)

oldspark said:


> I always have always tracked my flue temps and never smoldered my fires, begining to think that is why i have never had any problems with my flue pipe or creosote, my 30 year old stove pipe shows no signs of wear.
> Not defending single wall pipe, make up your own mind, pay no attention to me.
> I take my flue pipe apart every year so any problems would be seen coming.


 All those things you're doing, including burning dry wood, help increase the life of single wall steel pipe a lot. It's very important to sweep and inspect it at least once a year like you're doing.


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