# HELP.....Boiler leaking and tech says the bolier needs replacement.....!!!!



## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

My boiler started developing what it seemed a leak for some time, you could see the marks of water in front plate, but it was dry.
It got worst because since the pellet stove has been off for a couple days due to the auger going bad, the boiler has been working more and the leak is obvious and water coming out.

A tech with good reputation from a friend came up and told me there's nothing I can do because the cast iron where the front plate is mounted is gone, one of the bolts tripped and fell off alone.

I shut off the boiler last night to prevent potential big damage but I guess it was too late.

Pellet stove is off waiting for auger part to arrive and boiler is off, so you can imagine: no heat and no hot water.

My boiler is a Peerless and the tech said he installs a different brand called McLane or something like that, rated better with 4 sections instead of 3 and more BTUs and higher efficiency and all that.

He will do the replacement and asked $5,800 dollars...............WTF.

This is a big setback.

Just need some guidance.....

..


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## LI-Mini-Owner (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm not a boiler expert, but here is some common sense stuff you can do try and get your boiler going again for the short term...

1.) Is the boiler leaking when it's Hot or Cold?  In some cases, leaking will subside when the boiler is hot b/c things tend to  expand, like the nipples that connect the sections together.

2) What is the preasure gauge reading?  Perhaps your extrol/expansion tank is is faulty, allowing the presure to rise, makeing the leak worse.  Other causes of presure rise is a faulty fill-valve which regulates the presure down to like 15 lbs.  Also - If your domestic hot water coil is leaking internally, that will drive the boiler preasure up.  With all zones running good and hot, presure s/b less then 20lbs.  If it's higher you can try cracking the presure relief valve for a second to drop the presure down a bit.


Of course, if the leak is massive than you are dead.  Sorry to hear about the high price tag for replacement.  Down by me, some oil companies run deals to entice new oil customers, so check your local paper for adds.   (of course they will dissapointded down the line when they find out how little oil you use.)


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

my friend came up and told me the PSI is nothing, no pressure.


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## LI-Mini-Owner (Feb 8, 2010)

Yup - sounds like boiler is scrap.  Any chance you can get the pellet stove part Fed-X'd to you, or a loaner part from dealer display model etc?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 8, 2010)

Weil-McLain boilers are good boilers, I've owned 4 of them.  Three of which are still running as far as I know, the oldest is now 27 years old.   I lost one due to a screw up by the installer.  They had to make good on it.


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

what is the typical install price for a boiler?
My Peerless is rated 112k BTU I think, this guy told me he would install a Weil McLain rated 140k BTU and with 4 "sections" (he said my boiler only has 3 "sections").

He quoted $5,800 but I think that's outrageous, but I don't know.

I checked online prices for a Weil McLain rated 140k BTU and the prices are not even $2k.

Please give me some ideas.

BTW-The auger part is on route via UPS, it was shipped Ground Friday. Even if I had the part I still need my hot water..

..


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 8, 2010)

You have some questions that need answers.

Those boilers you priced, did they include a burner, disposal fees on the old boiler, shipping (they ain't light), and any plumbing fixtures to mate the new to the old, and the labor (plumbers aren't cheap, either).

My last install was on the former installer, before that it was in 1993, but also included base board and then the tag was a bit over $5,000.  They didn't have to remove the old system as I helped a scrap salvager remove it.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 8, 2010)

Sears can do a same day on a hot water heater in some instances.


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

thanks much for all the info smokey.

The quote he gave me was including all labor, parts, boiler with removal of the old one (I think), it was a total price.

Yeah, plumbers are not cheap, the boiler cost is not even $2k, so there's a big difference for the label, obviously knowing there's some piping involved but still is a bit pricey.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 8, 2010)

Well you are going to get two people to do that install, those things aren't light.  With out knowing all of the detail I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess.  It will be different depending on type of fuel, that is why I mentioned is the burner included.

I got to choose burner as well as boiler on the full system I had installed in one house 27 years ago, the folks that did the work were two brothers, small wiry guys.  I'll tell you this you would not want to get into a fight with either one.

That was an oil fired system, the other three were Natural Gas fired, the one in this place is oil fired and if it had been me doing the building here it wouldn't have gotten the time of day on its way past the end of the drive way.


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## Xena (Feb 8, 2010)

Seems high to me too. 
Get yourself two more quotes from reputable
dealers in your area.  I had mine replaced
about six years ago with a Williamson 140k btu
I believe. I want to say it was around 4 grand.


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## hoverfly (Feb 8, 2010)

Boiler replacement in not cheap, it's going to hurt. Spend the money of a high efficiency boiler, don't know about Mclain but Peerless has Energy Star compliant units. Also with low sulfur heating oil, you can install a condensing unit as well.


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

If indeed I need to replace it at least I know the unit should qualify for 3o% up to $1,500 for next year income tax....

..


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## imacman (Feb 8, 2010)

Hoverfly said:
			
		

> Boiler replacement in not cheap, it's going to hurt. Spend the money of a high efficiency boiler, don't know about Mclain but Peerless has Energy Star compliant units. Also with low sulfur heating oil, you can install a condensing unit as well.



Yes, Peerless has models with AFUE of over 90, but I think the biggest one is 80,000btu's, and runs about $5300.  If you subtract the Tax credit of 30%, it will still run you $3800 + install.


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

called another company, the owner came up and told me that it looks like they can repair the leak, however he said there's no guarantee because there could be surprises once they take the coil out. He said it could be a 3 hour job but it could be all day and depends on how it is inside they may not be able to fix the issue hence I may need to replace the boiler anyways. This company has good reputation.

I am taking my chances and asked to do the repair, they'll be here early AM, will keep you posted.........just wish me good LUCK.

He also said that ballpark replacing the boiler would be around $5,200, he said said that while they're at it I could have the coil replaced which would be another $400 bucks on top of the repair. He stated coils usually run or have a life of around 7 to 10 years and that he doesn't install boilers with coil as it is not efficient.

Anyways, will report back.

P.S. the auger motor for the stove is coming tomorrow.

.


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## smilejamaica (Feb 8, 2010)

my boiler was leaking in the end of 2004 . the tech told me i could put a hot water heater in . keep the old boiler for heat . i dont know much about them maybe a different problem. so i called and got about 5 different estimates for a new boiler .back then they wanted about 4000.00 to 5900.00. i was floored broke and useless since i dont know much about them. i thought about the water heater . but i talked to the man at work that does our heat at the job. he told me he will put it in for 3000.00 i was sold. he made about 1500.00 from that 3000.00 profit . 
they will rob you watch out . to bad you dont know a tech that moonlights.    
take care and good luck


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## Dr_Drum (Feb 8, 2010)

Geek, one thing to keep in mind would be that switching models means all new pipe routing. It's doubtful plumbers want to reuse your old parts either. If you replace with the same model (if available), it could save on labor of re-piping, circulator, sensors and gun. Is the quote to replace the everything? When my brother in laws boiler failed he just bought the cast sections, there wasn't anything wrong with the firebox, so why replace. He does that for work though so maybe he had connections?
Mike -


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

yeah, I checked online prices for the weil mclean stove and it is around $1,700 shipped to my house from NY. I'm sure this plumber is getting maybe a lower price.

Called Thomaston Supply locally and they won't even give you a price because you need to be licensed....go figure.

..


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## EJW1 (Feb 8, 2010)

Xena said:
			
		

> Seems high to me too.
> Get yourself two more quotes from reputable
> dealers in your area.  I had mine replaced
> about six years ago with a Williamson 140k btu
> I believe. I want to say it was around 4 grand.




How can anyone say this is high or low if you have never seen the boiler..?? Every system is different, as is every price. 
If it is leaking at the coil gasket and bolts have broken off you can drill them out and retap them. Yes this can take all day.
Depending on the model and age of the Peerless, this is usually worth a try. Lowering the pressure wont help and will probably
allow the zones to begin collecting air=no heat. Stay away from Weil Mclain. Did the tech do a heat loss of your house to find
out you needed a larger boiler? Square feet, window sizes, wall thickness, insulation R values etc. all play a part in finding out
just how big the boiler needs to be.


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## geek (Feb 8, 2010)

no, he didn't do a heat loss calculation, he estimated based on experience, so he said.

I have a company coming out early tomorrow and try to repair.....keeping my fingers and toes crossed..

Would be wise to replace the coil while they'll be at it?? It is around 400~500 bucks more, what you think??

..


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## Xena (Feb 8, 2010)

EJW1 said:
			
		

> How can anyone say this is high or low if you have never seen the boiler..?? Every system is different, as is every price.



I took into consideration that Geek said he checked and the cost of the boiler
quoted for the job is $1,700.00, yes, the total of $5,800. seems high to ME even if it takes
all day it still sounds like a screwin to me.  Guess they think they have ya by
the short and curlys because we are in the middle of winter.


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## Dr_Drum (Feb 8, 2010)

geek said:
			
		

> yeah, I checked online prices for the weil mclean stove and it is around $1,700 shipped to my house from NY. I'm sure this plumber is getting maybe a lower price.
> 
> Called Thomaston Supply locally and they won't even give you a price because you need to be licensed....go figure.
> 
> ..



If you are switching brands, have someone do it for you. If you are replacing in kind you should be able to do it yourself. A different brand will require you to repipe the waterlines, and probably the exhaust vent. Then follow manufacturers guidelines and spec the gun, tip and mounting flange, nozzle and flow rates, set the pump pressure, prime the system, and then a full combustion gas analysis followed by air adjustments. Replacement in kind is really just a bolt up, then call a tech for the combustion analysis. Around here you can buy parts from Northern Burner Supply or Redlon Johnson without a license. You just pay more since it's a wholesale distributor. Did you tell them it was a direct replacement? 
Mike -


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 8, 2010)

Replacement boiler with installation quotes can average a full three thousand dollars between one end and the other.

Whenever you get involved with a big ticket item you need at least 3 written proposals.

Now EJW1 what has happened to Weil Mclain boilers?   I've had very good experiences with them in the past.


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## Dr_Drum (Feb 8, 2010)

geek said:
			
		

> Would be wise to replace the coil while they'll be at it?? It is around 400~500 bucks more, what you think??
> ..



If it ain't broke, don't fix it. They are different materials. Just because the cast water jacket on the boiler is gone doesn't mean the copper coil is bad. It could last for many more years?
Mike -


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## EJW1 (Feb 8, 2010)

geek said:
			
		

> no, he didn't do a heat loss calculation, he estimated based on experience, so he said.
> 
> I have a company coming out early tomorrow and try to repair.....keeping my fingers and toes crossed..
> 
> ...



Ive done this for 25 years and I do a heat loss on every install. Yes put in a coil if the broken bolt repair goes well.


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## wil lanfear (Feb 8, 2010)

geek said:
			
		

> no, he didn't do a heat loss calculation, he estimated based on experience, so he said.
> 
> I have a company coming out early tomorrow and try to repair.....keeping my fingers and toes crossed..
> 
> ...


I replaced my 3 section Weil-McLain boiler with a tankless heater last spring, I installed it myself 30 plus years ago, with a HB Smith 3 section boiler. The tankless heater coil was never replaced, it was still good after 30 years. The costs of the new boiler and materials to install it was less than $1700.00. I'm sure a heat loss calculation was done to confirm the size of of the boiler that you now have, no need to put a larger boiler in if you have to replace it.


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## imacman (Feb 8, 2010)

wil said:
			
		

> .....I'm sure a heat loss calculation was done to confirm the size of of the boiler that you now have, no need to put a larger boiler in if you have to replace it.


What if there have been upgrades to the home since the original install?  new windows, more insulation, etc, etc.


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## swalz (Feb 8, 2010)

I am in the same boat boiler not going to make it another heating season and needs to be replaced. I have gotten 5 quotes all between 9 - 11 thousand, I know that is way to high and have a person who does it on the side going to do it in the off season, he is a good friend of another friend and said he will help me out. Hr has not had a chance to give me an estimate but I know he will be a lot less then the other guys. 

You should get the heat loss estimate done and you should not need to go to a higher BTU then you already have. Mine is a Well Mclain and around 30yr old, looking to maybe switch to a heat pump with a oil furnace backup.


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## yknotcarpentry (Feb 9, 2010)

yup, my burnham is leaky but hanging in there, Had 3 quotes anywhere from $5000 to $7000. differant boilers then original and all differant from one another yet all the same btu as the one i have. I also need to get my chimey lined to bring it up to code. The low quote was from a friend that is a plumber and i have to run the liner myself, the other two are from oil techs


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## Former Farmer (Feb 9, 2010)

It may be possible that the larger unit that he is trying to sell you is the one that is sitting in his shop.  He may just be trying to unload it onto you.  Kind of like going to buy a truck and the dealer tells you that they don't have one exactly like you are looking for, but this one that they have in stock is close.  At least the unit is bigger than the original instead of smaller without doing a heat calc.


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## wil lanfear (Feb 9, 2010)

macman said:
			
		

> wil said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good point, all the more reason not to replace a 3 section boiler with a 4 section boiler with more BTU's.


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## Hot_h20 (Feb 9, 2010)

Pull your wrenches & torch out and go to it; these guys ship from NY and are quite reputible:

http://www.pexsupply.com/Weil-Mclain-WGO-WTGO-Gold-Oil-Boilers-1052000


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http://www.pexsupply.com/Weil-Mclain-WGO-WTGO-Gold-Oil-Boilers-1052000
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## Marbleguy (Feb 9, 2010)

To bad you are in the middle of winter and need the hot water from your boiler. I had an aging unit a few years back (less than 5) and managed to replace it myself. It took three of us to get the new cast iron unit into the basement and the old one out but I did the complete install for right around $1500.00. The new boiler is a triple pass unit and Energy Star rated. First season I used it I saved almost 400 gallons of oil while heating the same space to the same temps. Of course that was before I installed the pellet stove. Did you get the part for your pellet stove? Is that at lease up and running?


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## geek (Feb 9, 2010)

I saw the pixsupply website yesterday, good prices for a homeowner.

The boiler has been FIXED..!!

Total cost $519 with about 5 and a half hours of labor (it was only 5 but I didn't complain)

I just hope the repair will last a good time, heading back home to see final results.

Thanks all for the great support and feedback, all of you.


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## gbreda (Feb 9, 2010)

geek said:
			
		

> I saw the pixsupply website yesterday, good prices for a homeowner.
> 
> The boiler has been FIXED..!!
> 
> ...



That's awsum geek !!    Kind of like finding a mechanic to "fix" the dead engine instad of replacing it    

Keeping fingers crossed that it holds up.

Geno


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey that's good to hear, that sure beats the full replacement charge.


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