# Esse Ironheart vs Margin Flameview cookstoves



## bhaugen (Mar 26, 2010)

We're building a small place in southwest Wisconsin, 500 sq ft with a 2nd floor.  Want to get a woodburning stove for cooking as well as heating.

Have pretty much narrowed the search down to the Esse Ironheart and the Margin Flameview.  Margin is cheaper, but Esse says they have a secondary burn and 81% efficiency - tested, they say, in Germany to European standards.  Margin says they have something like a secondary burn, but no tested efficiency.  Both appear to be solidly constructed.

Any experience or comparisons of either or both of these stoves, or any other info that might help us choose?  (Including opinions like "neither of those is nearly as good as this other, better, stove".)


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## Shari (Mar 26, 2010)

Welcome to the forum! 

I can't offer any opinion on one stove versus the other, but I will suggest you check with the local building codes to see if they will allow a non-EPA rated stove.  Also ask the same question of your homeowners insurance company.

Shari


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## bhaugen (Mar 26, 2010)

Shari, thanks for the reply.  I'll check about insurance and double-check building codes, but there's lots of non-EPA rated stoves in the area, and as far as I know, the building codes don't specify.


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## djblech (Mar 26, 2010)

I just looked up the Margin and was impressed. It is UL listed which should satisfy the ins comp. I think wood cook stoves are neat. I like the Margin flameveiw heater, it would be perfect in my cabin. I don't think you will get the overnight burns that you could with a good epa stove.
Doug


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## bhaugen (Mar 26, 2010)

Hey Doug,  thanks for the reply.  We saw the Margin in action in an Amish 2-story house where it was the only source of heat.  Has a big firebox for a cookstove, and they easily keep a fire going all night.

Likewise the Esse North America rep says he keeps a fire going overnight in his Ironheart.


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## djblech (Mar 26, 2010)

The Esse looks like a really nice stove to. I have looked at it before on Obidiah's website. The price is more than double the Margin. I think I would lean towards the margin for that reason alone. That would be great to see them in action. I don't think you could go wrong with either stove. 
Doug


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## bhaugen (Mar 26, 2010)

Not sure if this question should start a separate thread or not.  I added it to a thread about overheating (too big a stove for the space) which got me thinking, and got a response that it was a separate issue.

It is related to this one, but is not exactly the same as whether one of these stoves would be better than the other.  The  issue is whether both of these stoves are too big for the space, which is a no-partition 21’ x 24’ living area with a partial second floor.

The Ironheat firebox is 12” x 18” x 18”  and the Margin 12”  x 22” x 18”.  Too big?  Or not?

(New to the forum, still learning the ground rules...)


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## begreen (Mar 26, 2010)

It will probably be fine, especially in a cold climate. Can you describe how the house is laid out? How many floors, how open is the floorplan? How well insulated is the house? Age?


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## bhaugen (Mar 26, 2010)

First floor will be 21’ x 24’, no partitions.  Second floor will cover 80% with an open area on the south.  Will be new construction, pretty well insulated. Stove will be on the first floor, close to the south end of the second floor.

(And no partitions on the second floor, either, except for bathrooms...)


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## begreen (Mar 26, 2010)

Ok, I can see your concern at only having ~1000 sq ft to heat. Truth be told not many of us have experience with either of these stoves. I lean a bit more towards the Esse. We have had a couple posters that have owned this stove and are happy. I like the cleaner burning aspect and good fireview.  The IronHeart firebox is roughly about the size of a mid-sized stove so you should be ok. It will take some practice to strike a balance between heating needs and cooking needs, especially in fall and spring. But that's what windows are for . 

Suggestion. If the upper floor is a loft. Build in ways to close it off from downstairs. This can be with windows or sliding doors. The advantages will be much better control over noise and heat. Do plan on having a ceiling fan too. But even with it on, a loft can get hot with a stove cooking below.


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## SteveKG (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't feel either stove will be a problem over heating. We use one in our kitchen to both heat and bake, and while our house is about 1000 sq. ft., it just isn't too hot. The one thing to note is that they have a lot of mass, wood cookstoves, and they stay warm a long time once they are completely heated up. 

I have a modern one now, and it has a large firebox. Previously, I used a couple of them in cabins, one for 11 years, that had very small fireboxes. It was quite old, probably at least early 1900s, and many of those I see with small fire boxes. The stove was great for baking, no problem, and it put out enough heat otherwise. However, one is forever feeding the things and you cannot use larger wood. This is ok if you are there watching and managing it, but it is more effort and time and can be a pain. My newer stove will go all night if I close it down some. Or, at least I can awaken to some coals and a stove which is still at least warm and will then warm up faster once I rebuild the fire. 

Either of the fireboxes you are considering would be fine.


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## anna@matsumail.com (Nov 7, 2010)

This is probably too late to help with a decision, but perhaps not for someone looking for info later on.  

We just put down a large chunk on the Esse Ironheart yesterday but while researching this stove we found this very useful (though we're not "green" per se) article about what cook stoves are best...

http://www.sustainablelivingmagazin...energy/wood-energy/72-ironheart-cooking-stove

Clearly we have no idea how this stove will perform, but we do have high hopes.  Will keep you posted.


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## SteveKG (Nov 7, 2010)

Sourdough newbie said:
			
		

> This is probably too late to help with a decision, but perhaps not for someone looking for info later on.
> 
> We just put down a large chunk on the Esse Ironheart yesterday but while researching this stove we found this very useful (though we're not "green" per se) article about what cook stoves are best...
> 
> ...



That is quite the beautiful stove and looks as if it will be a great baking oven/cooker. We also recently ordered a new cookstove, a Heartland [Aga] Artisan I saw mentioned here on the forum and which are on sale something like $1500 off. We have been waiting for 8 wks, as they were out of stock and have to be shipped from England. The Esse website says it can be 4 months to wait for theirs, so our wait isn't any worse. I have been baking on our current cookstove [which is being moved into another room as the oven is too small] for 20 yr. and others before that. Nothing like it, though summertime temp's preclude using it except on cooler days when I arise early and get the bread done by late morning with the cottage doors wide open and the ceiling fans going. 

Stoves such as these Esse and the Heartland are amazing appliances and become the center of the portion of the house in which they live. Unlike a wood heat stove, these do need to be cleaned of ash and sometimes a bit of soot from around the various fireboxes and internal airways. but these "modern" makes are designed to make that task simple and quick. I don't spend over an hour a year doing it to my present cookstove.


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## bhaugen (Dec 12, 2010)

Update on the original question:

We got a Margin Flameview cookstove, and love it. Well mage. Big firebox, heats the whole place but without getting it too hot.  Cooks, bakes, can hold a fire overnight.  

Don't know about efficiency vs an Esse, but certainly a lot less expensive.

Thanks for all the discussion and tips here.  Great forum.


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## lifesmith (Jan 28, 2011)

We have tested over 20 cookstoves in our wood heat program at our Eco Education Centre and we highly recommend the  Esse Ironheart. There is also a good article in Sustainalbe Living Magazine that explores all its advantages of the Ironheart. After using one for a week we also came to the conclusion that the award winning Esse Ironheart is perhaps the best all round wood fired cook stove on the market.  It certainly provides a lot of performance with a relatively small footprint and excelant controls on both the air flow to the firebox and the heat distribution to the cooktop and the oven.

One of our instructors has had one for over 5 years and still raves about it as the best wood stove he has ever owned.  (his 9th)
He describes it as a multi function wood appliance that cooks and bakes while you heat your house and your hot water. Apparently he got the best price from Earthwalk and they included a mini course on cooking with wood. You can reach them at 905-355-3000. He says he has never had a maintenance issue with it after several years of use and it performs beautifully.  I would completely agree with him and you might want to check out the Ironheart before you decide.  Feel free to contact me if you want to know more about our experience with the Ironheart. :exclaim:


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## Obadiah (May 7, 2011)

I'd like to explain the difference between the ESSE Ironheart and Margin Cookstoves and hopefully clear up any confusion in the posts on this subject. We at Obadiah's sell both lines, as well as many other brands of cookstoves. 
ESSE has been building cookers in England since 1854. They even built stoves for Florence Nightingale and the Shackleton Exploration. No other stove manufacture today has more experience building stoves. Many consider ESSE to be the Rolls Royce of cookstoves. They have their own foundry and make their own cast iron components. Interesting enough, they have come to the realization that using cast iron to build stoves is no longer the optimal way to do things. Stoves built of cast iron need to be rebuilt after 10-20 yrs, as they have a tendency to loose their air tightness. Cast Iron components can also crack when they expand and contract, from the extreme temperatures a stove endures. In order to build a stove 100 yrs ago they had to cast individual components and assemble the parts to make the stove. These individual components expand and contract differently, they can crack if they are over-fired, or the stove is fired when cold. As a result of these drawback ESSE decided to build their cookers using modern techniques. They use steel pates that are welded together which form one single unit as the main stove body. This means the stove body expands and contracts as one, it is much easier to make it air tight. They now hang the cast iron parts, that they cast in their foundry, on the outside of the stove body. This gives them the benefits of Cast Iron's ability to retain heat, without the draw backs. ESSE stoves never need to be rebuilt, there are no internal gaskets to fail or replace, no furnace cement to crack and fall out. They will stay air tight for generations to come. The Ironheart is one of the few cookstoves that offers a front viewing of the fire. It was developed for the US market and is a excellent cookstove for those that can afford the best. It offers the ability to use a boiler option so you can actually heat a separate area of your home using a radiator, or heat your domestic hot water supply. ESSE has recently come out with two new models, the 990 and WN/WD models. The 990 has a glass door behind the sold door on the firebox, so you can view the fire from the front. It also offers 3 separate ovens, which is also a unique feature. They will be the cleanest burning wood cookstoves ever made. The 990 and WN/WD series stoves are currently undergoing testing and should be available this summer, fully UL and Omni listed. They are available now for those where that is not a issue. They weigh about 700lbs and will heat about 1000 sq ft. If we have had any complaints it would be that they are only producing about 20,800 BTU's. without the boiler option. So if your heating a larger area, you will need a larger stove. The Kitchen Queen 480 is a viable option, there and will easily heat up to 3000 sq ft and give 12-14hr burn times. 

Margin Stoves are built by the Amish in Canada and are also a very nice looking cookstove. Many folks love the looks of the old fashion cookstoves, yet the convenience of a band new stove. 
Margin stoves offers a few different models, the Margin Gem is the old fashion looking stove, the Gem Pac is the 30-40s style stove, and the Flameview is their newest stove. It also has a view of the fire, but it is from the side. The firebox can be located on either side of the cookstove, a very unique feature. The stoves are built using turn of the century technology, using various components that are bolted together, without any gaskets, or furnace cement. If the internal components crack, they can be unbolted and replaced. There are Pros and Cons to this approach. Margin stoves build their stoves to order, so there is a delay in delivery. These stoves can take anywhere from 1 to 4 months before you will receive it. We have sold plenty of them and most folks seem very happy with their purchases. However, we have had some complaints from customers that the Margin Stoves smoke when they are brand new, until the cracks seal up with creosote. Some other folks have complained about pools of creosote around the legs of the stove. This problem occurs when the stoves are new and have high moisture levels inside them, or the customer is burning damp or green wood. We have also received a couple complaints that the stove will make booming noises when it is expanding and contracting. This seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Overall they are a quality stove and the folks at Margin Stoves stand behind what they build, if there is a problem they will make it right.


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## begreen (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the very informative post about the cook stoves. I learned a lot. It sounds like the cookstove industry appears to be going hybrid like the Alderlea, Napoleon cast iron, Jotul Rangeley, and Quad cast stoves. Are the Hearthstone Deva and Aga stoves hybrids also?

But let's follow the forum rules in future posts.

Please be sure to read the Forum Rules for Commercials Members:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Forum_Rules_for_Commercial_Members/
*Short and sweet part - forums posts are NOT the place to promote your business or your products.* Below are instructions for Retailers with physical locations to obtain a free listing. Others who wish to promote their products here or sponsor the site should contact me for a quote on our advertising programs. My email is webmaster@hearth.com


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## pen (May 7, 2011)

Thank you for sharing information about these cookstoves.  

However, when someone gets the feeling they are being given a sales pitch "the line" has been crossed.

Your post has been edited to reflect the pertinent information



pen


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## Obadiah (May 8, 2011)

Sorry guys, as you can see I am a little new at this, just trying to help. Last thing I would ever do is step on someones toes or cross the line here. Been a long time supporter of this forum, just never had anytime to get involved, so I thought I would try to do more to help out.
Went to "the Rules" and I'm a little confused.
1st Rule: I did not try to push one product over another, I sell both and was trying to offer an honest opinion on each product in response to the posted thread.
2nd Rule: I am a paid Gold Direct Merchant Sponsor. We support Hearth.com and thought as an advertiser, we could post information if was addressing a product question.  I have seen many others do this in the past.
3rd Rule: I did not cast a "Bad Light" on any competitor, as I sell both products and have first hand experience with the manufactures and was just trying to offer a honest opinion, based on many years experience with both products.
I provided links to our website where more info on these products is available. It that where I crossed the line?
Maybe I'm just ignorant at how this all works, (this was my only 4th post) but if someone could clarify what I did wrong, I surely won't repeat it, otherwise, I'm clueless. Maybe I should go back to focusing on helping the folks that call me instead of posting the answers to these questions here for all to see?
I find it interesting that you as a moderator, did not even know we are paid advertisers. 
Not that it should give me a right to violate the rules, once I understand them, but I never seem to see our banners running. Is Craig still running the show here? What happened to the advertising we paid for?
Thanks for your time and please would someone explain the rules, they seem as clear as mud to me.


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## begreen (May 8, 2011)

The posting was great. I learned something about both stoves from it. Please do more excellent posts like it. The comment was only at the last paragraph which was a direct pitch for the company.

The simple rule is that forum posts about helping and informing, not for pushing product or company. If we let one company use the forum to promote itself, then the next company is also going to want to do this and then the next. Forums that allow this eventually become spam-a-lots. I can totally appreciate pride in what the company does and sells. Folks report back excellent service from Obidiah's. Instead of using the forum comments, put that pride in the banner advertising, it works. 

For questions about the rules, it's best to PM the webmaster. Your feedback on them and suggestions on how they could be made clearer are totally appreciated.


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## certified106 (May 8, 2011)

Obadiah said:
			
		

> Sorry guys, as you can see I am a little new at this, just trying to help. Last thing I would ever do is step on someones toes or cross the line here. Been a long time supporter of this forum, just never had anytime to get involved, so I thought I would try to do more to help out.
> Went to "the Rules" and I'm a little confused.
> 1st Rule: I did not try to push one product over another, I sell both and was trying to offer an honest opinion on each product in response to the posted thread.
> 2nd Rule: I am a paid Gold Direct Merchant Sponsor. We support Hearth.com and thought as an advertiser, we could post information if was addressing a product question.  I have seen many others do this in the past.
> ...



Just wanted to let you know I have seen your shops banners running quite a bit, so I would think others are seeing them also. Nice post by the way I learned alot.


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## woodchip (May 8, 2011)

I know someone here who has an Esse Ironheart here and they really are the Rolls Royce of wood stoves. 

I have never met anyone who has a bad word to say about them. 

If run 24/7 they will burn about a wheelbarrow of wood per day, just so you can do the math. 

If you get the River Cottage programmes over there on TV, Hugh has one in River Cottage HQ


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## Mt Ski Bum (May 8, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Obadiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that I am paying attention to the banners, I too have seen your banner several times today alone. Please do continue to provide more informative posts like the one you made above- I'm sure you have plenty more great information about woodstoves to contribute to this forum! I look forward to seeing more of your posts around


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## Obadiah (May 9, 2011)

Thanks guys I think I'm getting the idea. I'd do my best to keep the info coming and the sales pitching limited. 
Thanks for the compliments, we try to do our best, we're blessed to be able to do what we love, so I get carried away very easily and shift into "Promo Mode".
You guys are great devoting so much time and energy to educating folks, you really provide a wonderful service to the Hearth community. We're thankful that we can be a part of it too. 
We've had a really busy year, things just started to slow down a little so I could finally spend some time poking around here to see what was going on.
Glad to hear our banners are still running, I've looked a few times, haven't seen them lately.
Be Well!


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## charly (May 10, 2011)

I've recently purchased an Iron Heart from Woody at Obadiahs, and I can tell you he is above and beyond a first rate person to deal with. http://www.discountstoves.net/ironheart_p/ironheart.htm. I received my stove in a very timely manner no problem. One thing I got educated about, was a heavier stove was getting you much more stove for your money, and also alot of nice thermal mass. The Esse sits in her crate in my garage as I am getting her final resting place ready in our farm house. I will post how she runs , once the heating season is upon us again. I'm glad I went for the Esse after reading the reviews.


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## KodiakII (May 10, 2011)

I looked at an Esse at a dealer north of us,  out the door you were looking at somewhere around the $9000.00 dollar mark (Canadian) the way it sat with the warming rack.  The equivalent in the Flameview was around $3500.00 dollar mark.  FYI the Canadian dollar is worth about a dollar and five cents US.  My conclusion is the Esse must be aimed towards rich folks, because I sure as heck won't be buying one for our Kitchen.


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## charly (May 10, 2011)

KodiakII said:
			
		

> I looked at an Esse at a dealer north of us,  out the door you were looking at somewhere around the $9000.00 dollar mark (Canadian) the way it sat with the warming rack.  The equivalent in the Flameview was around $3500.00 dollar mark.  FYI the Canadian dollar is worth about a dollar and five cents US.  My conclusion is the Esse must be aimed towards rich folks, because I sure as heck won't be buying one for our Kitchen.


   I can tell you I'm far from rich. What I can tell you is you should have dealt with Obadiah's, I bought mine for 5000 and change. They are going up in price. You don't need to be rich to be smart!  Common sense has no wealth. God does lead you to good people if you pay attention!


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## KodiakII (May 10, 2011)

For 1500 plus tx difference (your price...the plane jane model here was six bills) between the Esse and the Flameview, I just cannot see what the Esse will do that the flameview won't...besides burn up money.  I'll keep my money in my country.


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## charly (May 10, 2011)

KodiakII said:
			
		

> For 1500 plus tx difference (your price...the plane jane model here was six bills) between the Esse and the Flameview, I just cannot see what the Esse will do that the flameview won't...besides burn up money.  I'll keep my money in my country.


   ME TOO   Read Obadiah's post, the FlameView is not a sealed stove, smoke and creosote leaks! Plus noise as the stove heats and cools. I think Esse has proved their worth! Plus I can sit and watch my food cook and look at the fire at the same time. I think having the fire box window on the side would not be viewed as often as having it in the front. Alot easier to cook and be able to just look down at the fire instead of running around to the side everytime. Just my opinion.  The Esse's not burning up my money, my wood is free, right from my farm!


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## KodiakII (May 11, 2011)

I have a hard time accepting the fact that a stove that would leak creosote would be UL or ULC approved.  For me where the stove has to go in our kitchen the side loading is a bonus not an encumbrance.  "Free" wood, what an interesting concept that is.


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## charly (May 11, 2011)

KodiakII said:
			
		

> I have a hard time accepting the fact that a stove that would leak creosote would be UL or ULC approved.  For me where the stove has to go in our kitchen the side loading is a bonus not an encumbrance.  "Free" wood, what an interesting concept that is.


    The fact that they are bolted together in sections and no gaskets or furnace cement is used leads me to believe that Woody at Obadiah's is telling the truth. He would know, he sells them. I'm very happy with what I bought. Yes, free wood: I don't buy my firewood, it's harvested from my farm.


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## KodiakII (May 11, 2011)

I am going to get in touch with our local dealer...local as in 200 miles from me to get his opinion on this matter.  I also get "free" firewood from my farm, but I am taking into account two thousand dollar saws, a trailer and atv used to haul it, a couple of hundred dollars in chain, a chain sharpener, files, axes, mauls,oil, chain oil, gas at a dollar fifty-five a litre, hopefully by the end of the summer a thirty-five hundred dollar splitter, and my time...so free is a rather inaccurate term.


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## woodchip (May 11, 2011)

KodiakII said:
			
		

> I also get "free" firewood from my farm, but I am taking into account two thousand dollar saws, a trailer and atv used to haul it, a couple of hundred dollars in chain, a chain sharpener, files, axes, mauls,oil, chain oil, gas at a dollar fifty-five a litre, hopefully by the end of the summer a thirty-five hundred dollar splitter, and my time...so free is a rather inaccurate term.



I have started a new thread on free wood in the wood shed as truly free wood is an interesting concept............


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## charly (May 11, 2011)

KodiakII said:
			
		

> I am going to get in touch with our local dealer...local as in 200 miles from me to get his opinion on this matter.  I also get "free" firewood from my farm, but I am taking into account two thousand dollar saws, a trailer and atv used to haul it, a couple of hundred dollars in chain, a chain sharpener, files, axes, mauls,oil, chain oil, gas at a dollar fifty-five a litre, hopefully by the end of the summer a thirty-five hundred dollar splitter, and my time...so free is a rather inaccurate term.


  My saw has more than paid for it self. A chain lasts me over a year, sharpen by hand zeroing in the cutter length's using a set of dial calipers. I take off just what's needed. All even to within .000- .003. Gas and my time are all that is costing me. Even my tractor has paid it dues and owes me nothing. I guess you could say it's as free as it will ever get!


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## Douglas (May 12, 2011)

I purchased the esse Ironheart a few months ago from Obadiahs, and I can vouge (did I spell that right) for the superb quality of the stove AND the integrity of the owners, and their willingness to assist anyway they can. Can't say enough about how happy I am with this purchase! As far as the other brands being discussed...I haven't a clue. That would be like me reviewing my neighbors car. This is my first post here so I hope I did nothing wrong........if I did.....I'll get over it! Have a great day guys


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## Douglas (May 12, 2011)

Can anyone tell me why "my photo" isn't being displayed in the left column? It shows up in my profile ok????????


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## begreen (May 12, 2011)

It doesn't pick it up from there. On your Control Panel page, on the left are your personal settings. Select - Edit Avatar and put the avatar picture there. 

And welcome to the forums!


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## begreen (May 12, 2011)

Douglas said:
			
		

> I purchased the esse Ironheart a few months ago from Obadiahs, and I can vouge (did I spell that right) for the superb quality of the stove AND the integrity of the owners, and their willingness to assist anyway they can. Can't say enough about how happy I am with this purchase! As far as the other brands being discussed...I haven't a clue. That would be like me reviewing my neighbors car. This is my first post here so I hope I did nothing wrong........if I did.....I'll get over it! Have a great day guys



Can you tell us a bit about running the stove, length of burn time, is it also heating an area and if so how large? Do you use it as the primary cooking stove?


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## Douglas (May 12, 2011)

Thanks for helping with the "Avatar" thing....I'da never guessed....thought it was a movie.    The main reason for "my" purchase is purely for future "emergencies", whatever that may entail.....collapse of economy, etc.  I've only used it a few times now, as the weather has warmed a great deal here. I located it to heat aprox 500 sq feet.....it'll do much more. The nickle lids on top can be closed to keep some of the heat down. I also purchased (as in the photo) one of those fans that run off the heat generated electricity....works nice. I haven't used the cooktop yet (too nice looking to mess up), but I have no doubt in it's ability to cook. Saving it for "hard times" Seriously....it really does look that nice. When friends visit their jaws drop when seeing it. It blends in with the decor nicely. As far as burn time.....I didn't really track that as I'm aware that has to do with many variables......wood type...how well it's cured....etc......plus I'm still in the process of "loading up" on firewood right now. I can post more in the future...... Thanks for the welcome.....


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## begreen (May 12, 2011)

I couldn't have a stove like that and not be practicing cooking on it all the time. Learn to bake bread in it so that you aren't starving for lack of experience when the sky falls.


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## woodchip (May 12, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I couldn't have a stove like that and not be practicing cooking on it all the time. Learn to bake bread in it so that you aren't starving for lack of experience when the sky falls.



I'd be using that for my primary cooking just for the fun of it. 

I'd certainly not wait for the total collapse of the economy and then find the stores have had a run on flour  ;-)


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## Douglas (May 12, 2011)

I know....I'm itch'n to cook n bake. (don't have to worry bout any run on the flour though.....way ahead on that one). Just didn't wanna get grease splatter n all that stuff mess'n up the looks. I will be going for it, but maybe someone here can help me with this question. What's the best product out there to cure the cast iron with so food splatter will clean up easily? I was guessing just plain old olive oil? This cost me $5400 from Obadiahs (at http://www.discountstoves.net), and I want to keep it looking new.


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## Obadiah (May 12, 2011)

Wow! Kinda feelin like home around here. Welcome Doug and thanks Charlie, two customers who have now become apart of the Obadiah Family. See why we feel so blessed? Name another business that a guy could be in that allows him to make great friends while doing business all over the world..... Thanks again for the Kudos's!  
The funnest part is Doug used to live in Libby Montana where we had our store, until the "EPA/HPBA's Great Woodstove Change Out Program" Because of the poor air quality and the Asbestos related illness in this area, everyone had to update their wood burning appliance to newer EPA Certified unit, we did about 10 yrs worth of business that year! But after that the market was saturated, so we shifted our focus online, in order to survive. Sorry, off on a bunny trail here......... 
Anyhow, Doug left Montana and the Boonies, moved to Michigan and took a job with Ford..... I left Michigan and GM's Chevy Creative Services, moved to Montana, so I could live in the Boonies! How funny is that??? A complete flip flop! It really is a very small world.

Anyhooo thanks for your input, guys! Now we'll have some first hand experiences with the Ironheart's, we'll need to find some other folks with cookstoves to join in on this little party, so we can get some more input on folks experiences with their cookers.

Maybe I'll share next about my experience with the Kitchen Queen and the Bakers Choice. My Ironheart should be here this week, so I'll do some You Tubes on it next winter. Right now I need to finish what I started on the Kitchen Queen 380 Cookstove and properly reducing clearances to combustibles. My hope is to provide honest feedback on every cookstove we sell and eventually even woodstove's and boilers. 

I also plan doing some videos next on soapstone and how it affects the heating properties of the Bakers Oven. I'll also be demonstrating the Draw Collar on this unit as it is actually installed in my Avion Coach that I live in while fighting wildfires in the Rockies. The chimney is only 3' tall. As the oven is below the firebox on a Bakers Oven, this can present a problem. This should really put the Draw Collar to the test to see if it really works as well as they say it does. We'll also take a close look at the benefits of soapstone and how it smooths out the spikes in a radiant heating application. 

By the way I was not bad mouthing the Margin Cookers, just stating how they are built, as well as feedback from some of our customers. I want to get one of each model and burn them myself so I have first hand experience. I have never personally owned one and just like Doug said, without that first hand knowledge, it is like critiquing the neighbors rig, we don't drive cars here, we drive "Rigs" in Montana 
Know this, the Amish that build the Margin Stoves stand behind them, if they weren't any good, they would not be on our website, we would not be selling them. We sell a ton of them! We have only had a few complaints. I only brought it up to begin with to answer the original question that started this thread. What is the difference between the Flameview and the Ironheart. Hopefully our Canadian friend can shed some further light into this by sharing his experience with his Flameview. In fact I think maybe we already talked on the phone.  We sell a ton of stoves and fireplaces to Canada, now I understand why. There are only a couple of Cookers we cant ship into Canada, the Esse's and the Margin's, so sorry to my Canadian friends, we cant help save you any money on these brands.
Hopefully with the recent elections in Canada, your prices will start to come back down, before ours start to go up! 
We'll gotta git back to work here, might be crossing the line again.......

PS- here is a recent picture from another customer enjoying a dish of ice cream in-front of their new Ironheart. One of my favorite pictures that have been sent in so far. 
Be Blessed!


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## Obadiah (May 12, 2011)

Doug,

You'll want to season to cooktop the same way you do a cast iron frying pan. Get the stove warm, not hot, smear some veggie oil on the cooktop, let it soak in, then get the stove hot until it smokes, hold the temp there for a while, then let it cool down, repeat the process about a half dozen times and then it will be seasoned like a proper cast iron frying pan. Best to do this when you can open the windows and put some fans to suck the smoke out of the house. Once the process is complete it will be kinda like a Teflon pan. I'll get a You Tube done on this eventually. Let me know how it goes. Don't try this unless you have fans set up at the windows sucking out and another blowing air in, otherwise your wife will most likely shoot ya!


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## charly (May 12, 2011)

I'm really looking foward to using my Iron Heart too. Nice picture Woody. And Woody , it is a nice feeling having become such good friends. It's a great family!  As far as using my stove, I think it'll will run 24/7 , as I think I'll keep something always simmering on the stove, sauce , chili , soup or whatever and what a convenience to have a stove ready to go, plus it's heating my house..........going to love it!! As far as keeping the stove nice looking, I've always wiped my stoves down with Amorall. Makes stove pipes and stoves look brand new again for a while. Doesn't turn white or anything. I guess stove black works as well.


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## WoodburnerAU (Aug 1, 2011)

G'day Folks

I am looking to replace the current woodstove with a nice new shiny one. Looking around here (Australia) the main choices are:
*Rayburn* -_ apparently made by AGA_,* Stanley*, and *ESSE*.

My question is in regards the Ashbed (ESSE) vs the Grate and Ashtray (Rayburn & Stanley) 

Both my current woodstove and my woodheater have grates and ashtrays, so I know cleaning out the ash is incredibly easy to do in these at anytime, even with the fire going.

My concern is the ashbed fire of the ESSE as I burn wood 24 hours a day 7 days a week during the cooler months, (late autumn to early spring).

Can anyone here give me any idea as to how often the ashbed would need cleaned out?      

I realize this is dependent on type of wood burnt etc, just hoping someone has had experience with both types of fires.

The ESSE would be my first choice due to its hotplate size, efficiency and build quality, but the whole ashbed thing is a big turn off to me, as the ease of removal of an ashtray for emptying seems so much easier and cleaner.

I currently remove the ashtray for cleaning around once a week for both the woodheater and the woodstove, as I said, this can easily be done with the fire going.

_*Regards to all*_


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## begreen (Aug 1, 2011)

Welcome WoodburnerAU. Are you referring to the Esse IronHeart? If so, I believe it has a good grate system and ash door with an ash pan below the main firebox door.

http://www.esse.com/UK/ironheart-2.html


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## charly (Aug 1, 2011)

WoodburnerAU said:
			
		

> G'day Folks
> 
> I am looking to replace the current woodstove with a nice new shiny one. Looking around here (Australia) the main choices are:
> *Rayburn* -_ apparently made by AGA_,* Stanley*, and *ESSE*.
> ...


   Just bought my Esse into our home. It does have an ash pan below the grates. Make sure you ask for that option. Haven't burned my yet so I can not honestly tell you anything about that. I bought mine from Woody, who runs Obadiah's. Great people to deal with. Stove is hands down built great. The weight of it speaks for itself.


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## WoodburnerAU (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks for the info *xclimber*/*BeGreen*, Ahh yes, they did say that was an option, but they didn't have it in-store.

_I am looking at the ESSE 990WB as the replacement, but seeing as the question was only regarding fireboxes I felt it wasn't really off-topic._  :cheese: 

How is the ease of operation of that option? it was hard to tell in the pictures I saw.

[The question regarding the ashbed vs ashtray is due to the saleman stating _'it (ESSE ashbed) wouldn't need cleaning out very often'_ and me being very skeptical about that statement]


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## charly (Aug 2, 2011)

WoodburnerAU said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info *xclimber*, Ahh yes, they did say that was an option, but they didn't have it in-store
> 
> How is the ease of operation of that option? it was hard to tell in the pictures I saw.


  Two nice heavy cast iron grates and an adjustable up right log bunk, that keeps the wood off the glass. You can can move the log bunk ahead in the slots of the grate, if you want to burn shorter wood. Stove comes with a handle to grab the ask pan which has a handle of it's own. Send me a PM  with your email and I'll send you individual pictures of the parts you want to see. What a nice built stove.


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## Burn-1 (Aug 3, 2011)

WoodburnerAU you have a lot more choices for good to high quality wood stoves down there than we do in the US with not only the brands you mentioned but also Thermalux and Nectre. I'm jealous.

I would love it if we could get the Thermalux Grand Cuisine over here, two ovens, a wok plate and the ability to get a back boiler for heat and hot water. Thermalux Youtube

You should check out Pivot Stove and Heating if you haven't already. Their website is great as are their Youtube videos. They have an excellent six part wood stove cooking class demonstration on Youtube on both an Esse Ironheart as well as the more AGA-like Esse 990.


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## WoodburnerAU (Aug 4, 2011)

*Burn-1*, Yes I was at Pivot Stoves at the weekend as they are the Esse dealer here, I too thought the Thermalux would be a brillant choice, but sadly it looks far better in Pictures then in real life _(my opinion only, not saying anything bad about it)._

In my opinion, the Esse 990 has a far better door closure system then any on the others _(slam doors)_ instead of the fiddly closings system of the others and the larger hotplate area is a nice bonus, we will be looking at getting the companion electric stove as well, so all in all a nice look, the enameled range hood is a nice finishing touch, but at this stage is not available for the larger 990 plus companion as the overall width is 90mm wider, hopefully it will be made, or we may just need to put up with the slight difference.

_Thats if we decide to go with the ESSE, we will be visiting Pivot Stoves again this weekend with more questions_

Plus the pricing is very similar for all the stoves, ESSE, RAYBURN, STANLEY & the THERMALUX GRAND CUISINE so it really gets done to personal preferences.


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## Obadiah (Aug 10, 2011)

Greetings Folks, sorry for the slow reply, was out on my sailboat all last week, relaxing before our wildfire season kicks off here in a few weeks. 
Thought I'd share this picture of Glacier National Park from 50 miles to the south. It was a beautiful evening and a marvelous Montana sunset! 
Nothing to do with Cookers, just thought some of you would enjoy this picture.

Looks like you have gotten some great advice so far. Greg and Tammie from Pivot Stoves are the ESSE folks for your area, they do a great job!
Tell em Woody from Obadiah's says "g'Day". I love Aussies, great firefighters and firelighters!

Funny how some cookers are a little disappointing when you get up close and personal. The fit and finish lives alot to be desired.

The ESSE's have been a quality stove and the castings are well made in Great Britain. 
 Amazing how many companies are having their castings made in China.
The cast iron is not the same. The castings are general not the best either, although they are getting much better with time.
So far we have been staying away from these products.

The new ESSE 990 is very exciting! We are anxiously awaiting its arrival here in North America. Can wait to get my hands on one so we can test it.
The new double firebox door with the inner glass is quite unique and clever. The emissions will make it the cleanest cooker we offer and should allow many folks in certain areas very happy.

Happy Sailing!


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## woodchip (Aug 11, 2011)

Glacier National Park is beautiful, nice shots. 

We stayed over the border in Waterton Lakes 5 years ago, similar views but from the other direction. 

That trip was what started my interest in a wood stove.....

Everywhere we went over there seems to be heated by wood, and no surprise..........  ;-)


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## WoodburnerAU (Aug 17, 2011)

I see you remembered your log-in details  Woody :lol:  with thanks to Charlie that passed that message on.

I have yet to return to Pivot Stoves, life got in the way.

Hopefully I will get an opportunity next month, no real rush as Spring is in the air and things are slowly warming up. But it would be nice to be able to have a new stove installed by next winter.


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## Obadiah (Aug 17, 2011)

That's great! Thanks Charlie.

Our bookkeeper has been on a 1 yr sabbatical touring Australia with her husband. They are headed back after renewing their visa's. 
She said that spring has sprung there and was anxious to get back!

Yeah logging on from an iPhone is not very easy, My laptop has a cookie so it just does it when when I click on.

Hope you enjoy your new cooker. Let us know what you end up with.


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## charly (Aug 17, 2011)

Obadiah said:
			
		

> That's great! Thanks Charlie.
> 
> Our bookkeeper has been on a 1 yr sabbatical touring Australia with her husband. They are headed back after renewing their visa's.
> She said that spring has sprung there and was anxious to get back!
> ...


  Woody,  Your very welcome , my friend!


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## Obadiah (Apr 12, 2012)

This thread got me thinking, "why not provide detailed info for folks doing their homework before they purchase their stove?"
So we have been working on some You Tubes, I have almost finished the Esse Ironheart and have posted that info on our "Obadiah's Woodstoves, You Tube" page.
Currently we now have about 30 videos up on the Ironheart.
If you want to see the Cooker in action and watch me take it apart and put it back together again, this is a great place for that info. I show you things that make this the Rolls of cookstoves. It's all in the details and this stove has plenty that set it apart from the pack. I am getting ready to dive into the optional Boiler system, showing you how it installs in the stove and what your options are for "heating domestic hot water with a cookstove"
_*http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodyChain/videos?query=esse+Ironheart*_

I am currently working simular videos for the Margin Flameview.
We have stripped the stove to its core and re-assembled it showing you all the details that make the stove what it is. It's construction is obvious once you get the stove apart.
I have been able to understand the frustration and complaints we have received on this stove, much more in depth.
Those videos will be out very soon.

We will actually be comparing the Esse Ironheart, The Flame View and The Oval side by side, looking at Grandmas Cookstove, against, The Margin Flameview.
We look at how these cookstoves install, if they have oval flues......how well each stove burns, how well the oven heats, We look at things like how quick the cooker gets hot and how hot it actually gets. We also concider things like size of the firebox and the access door you use to feed the fire.
The less wood you have to handle to stay warm is important, getting up at 3am to stoke a stove gets old really fast! 

It is my desire to do this for every product that Obadiah's offers.
This way folks that have the stove, can know how they work and how to properly maintain their hearth product for safety, even if they did not purchase from us.
The will be able to experience the strengths and weakness, of the product, before spending their hard earned $$ on something that may not be the wisest choice for their installation, or needs.
There are many questions out there that folks need honest answers to, not sales hype.

We have added how to for knowing and caring for firewood, relining chimneys, installing fireplace inserts, even protecting your chimneys from sliding snow on a metal roof and many other subjects.
We will add more info as we have time.
Hopefully this will be helpful to the Hearth.com readers.


Blessings!


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## charly (Apr 12, 2012)

Well Woody, after a full season of burning the Esse, I couldn't be happier. It's kept us warm and at the same time cooked our food. Over night burns are no problem, always enough coals left to just add more wood. A well built stove. I love the adjustable door latches as well. Very well thought out. A big thanks for always being there to answer any questions. As a matter of fact , Miss Esse is running right now.


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## charly (Apr 13, 2012)

After running the Esse all winter, I just opened the tee outside and looked up my chimney pipe. Barely enough build up to scrape with a finger nail. For the first 3 months the pipe still retained the reflective appearance inside.  Amazingly clean burn. I was surprised as most of the heat stays in the stove. I see average flue temps of about 300 degrees. So it seems the Esse is holding up to it's 81% efficiency rating.


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## Obadiah (May 6, 2012)

Ok as promised, here are the other YouTube's I said I'd post, the Ironheart Boiler is now up as well as how to clean your Ironheart. 
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodyChain/videos?query=esse+Ironheart

Next I will be restoring an Ironheart and repainting it for you on YouTube, coming up this month.

Here is the YT on the Flameview which started this thread, I have taken the stove apart and put it back together again and I am now fixin to burn it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodyChain/videos?query=flameview 

Hopefully these will help explain things much better for folks so they can see how the stoves are built and how well they burn.
We do our best to put our opinions aside and just give you an honest assessment of the stoves we offer.
Unfortunately when it comes to cookstoves, few folks have a local dealer where they can go kick the tires so to speak, so we go one further and give you an inside look before you buy.


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## WoodburnerAU (Nov 16, 2012)

G'day again all,
Been a while but the old wood stove split its boiler this winter brrrr, cold without it going even with the woodheater burning.
Not to mention the power bill from using the electric stove for cooking .
So last weekend a trip to Pivot stove in Melbourne, sees us buying a nice new 990WD Esse and all electric companion, rangehood and splashback at a nice saving due to the expo at the time .
So in the next month or so we will have it installed, even though summer will be in full swing I have a feeling xmas dinner will be provided by esse.
And looking forward to a nice toasty winter next year as well.
Cheers all, I'll get back and report when we fire it up.

I'll have to remember to say g'day to Greg for you as well Woody.


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## Obadiah (Nov 20, 2012)

G'day Mate! 

That is great news!
You also pulled the trigger on the new Plus 2 too.......wow, I am jealous......
You now have the best of both worlds, old fashion reliable wood, as well as one of the best electric cooking appliances available, The Plus 2.
This will open up a new world in wood cookstove's here on this side of the Pond....
We are pretty excited too.

The 990 is now in America and on its way to the testing lab for North American certifications, will be released for sale here, next year. 
Reports are it will be among the cleanest burning cookstove's ever released! So I'll be putting my order in for one of the first that will be released on these shores.
Being an Esse dealer does have its benefits......
Hope you and your family have a Blessed Christmas, we are preparing to give Thanksgiving for all our Blessings here in America this Thursday. Bloody bad day if yer a Turkey though........

Please do give our regards to Greg and the Pivot Gang.

We are looking forward to your ongoing reviews and pics when your all gathered for your Christmas feast, prepared on your new Esse 990.

Cheers!


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## baydraftmare (Nov 21, 2012)

After reading this entire post I'm extreemly interested in the new Esse 905 model range cooker with that electric Plus2 companion.  I wonder how WoodburnerAU is liking thiers.  It seems like Esse makes a great cookstove, but since I live in NC I won't be cooking with wood more than 6 months out of the year or so and it seems like a waste to drop $5000 + on an Ironheart stove I would only use half the time.  The new range cooker seems like a great solution, and I'm hoping it'll be available very soon.  Obadiah's post from last year (2011) said maybe this year (2012) they'd be available in the US but they aren't yet on the website.  Come on 2013!


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## Obadiah (Nov 22, 2012)

Greetings Baydraftmare, welcome to the best place to find like minded folks who are happy to help. 

As far as I know, the 905 won’t be available in North America for a while yet. There was talk a couple years ago about it, but with the worldwide economic slump and rioting in the streets of Great Britain, it was not the best time to launch a new stove in North America. We'll see what the demand for the 990 turns out to be first. If they sell well then I'm sure ESSE will invest in the next round of testing and certification for the North American market. Few folks realize that it is not as simple as bringing the stoves here so we can sell them. All the cookstove's Obadiah's sells are UL listed and many CSA as well. This involves sending a stove to an approved lab like Omni Labs for testing. If we go for a EPA certification, that will involve different tests and expense. Getting a stove from overseas that is listed there, listed here, should be straight forward, it’s not. The testing has to be according to UL or CSA specs, so the European Certs don't apply here. The certification process has to be repeated here by an "Approved Lab" This process cost 10s of thousands of dollars.  Currently cookstove's sales amount to less than 3% of woodstoves sold in the USA and as such is exempt from regulation from the EPA, so there is no reason to pay for that testing......yet.

I wish I could simply order a container of stoves from Firebelly Stoves in England as I really like their glass front cooker.  I could offer them to my customers, but unless I want to also pay for the testing that gives my customer a UL/CSA sticker, there is no demand, few folks will pay for a stove that their insurance company may have a problem with, let alone the "inspector"... We have offered Amish cookstove's that were not UL listed and they did not sell well, because there is no demand. For that reason, I don't even bother with them anymore. The flip side of this is the price of the stoves. Listed stoves cost more, clean burning cookstove's cost even more. The 990 is going to be in the $9-10k range. EPA certified cookstove's will be in the ??? price range. If your batting an eye at the price of an Ironheart, you better sit down for the rest of the story......The 905 is not the economy model either.

I am seeing some cookstove manufactures price themselves right out of the US/Canadian market in the last few years. Folks no longer seem to have the disposable incomes they used to and they are trying to stretch their money, so they want cookstove's for under $3k, when you get up in the Esse price range that less than 3% of the woodstove market gets very, very small. That is just the reality of it. Esse understands that reality, spreading out the cost involved in doing business in North America, is not always easy and it is probably going to get worse before it gets better. Why the European standards can’t be applied here is the main question, as they are generally stricter than ours, is beyond me, it sure would open up the doors for more affordable clean burning woodstoves and cookstove's on this side of the pond.


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