# Burning plastic smell?



## rexrules (Dec 9, 2012)

Just replaced regular Dura Vent Pellet Vent with Pellet Vent Pro on my 25-PDVC. Is it normal to be getting a burning plastic smell in the house after installing new pipe?

Vent setup is: Stove Adapter - 45 Elbow - 24" Horizontal through the wall - Cleanout Tee - 36" Vertical - 90 Degree and then vent cap.


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## Gary Gileau (Dec 9, 2012)

It is more than likely the coatings burning off the new pipe. Keep your eye on it though, be certain that you have no leaks. Do you have a carbon monixide device in your home?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 9, 2012)

It is normal to get a chemical smell when the oils burn off of various metals used in stove systems or the paint actually heat cures, it is known as the burn in smell.  It is acrid and nasty stuff.

As long as it doesn't have a smoke smell and that you have both a working CO detector and a working smoke detector.


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## rexrules (Dec 9, 2012)

No green supreme here, stove chow for now (177/ton). 

It is not a smoke smell, thats the reason I replaced the regular duravent with the pro. It is more of a plastic smell, stove has been running on 7 for about five hours now and the smell is still there. CO and smoke detectors on every floor an additional CO in the room where the stove is with an lcd readout which is still reading zero.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 9, 2012)

Can the room be opened to allow the odor to leave the building, you have likely done a pretty good job of curing things by now if 7 is as high as the unit ever gets operated at.


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## rexrules (Dec 11, 2012)

So maybe this isn't as simple as I thought. The smell is still there, even only a couple minutes after start up. Stove has about twenty hours since replacing the pipe. I removed the back panel of the stove and it smells like it is coming from the stove itself. Ran the stove all last year with no problems, just the leaky Duravent on start up.

When I replaced the pipe I gave the stove a good cleaning and did the LBT. I really don't know how to describe the smell, but it isn't the normal sweet wood smell. Maybe the LBT damaged the gaskets in some way and I should try replacing them next??

CO detectors are not going off and the one in the stove room still reads 0. This is making me crazy.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 11, 2012)

Check to see if things like the vacuum tube and wiring aren't against the exhaust.system.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 11, 2012)

rexrules said:


> So maybe this isn't as simple as I thought. The smell is still there, even only a couple minutes after start up. Stove has about twenty hours since replacing the pipe. I removed the back panel of the stove and it smells like it is coming from the stove itself. Ran the stove all last year with no problems, just the leaky Duravent on start up.
> 
> When I replaced the pipe I gave the stove a good cleaning and did the LBT. I really don't know how to describe the smell, but it isn't the normal sweet wood smell. Maybe the LBT damaged the gaskets in some way and I should try replacing them next??
> 
> CO detectors are not going off and the one in the stove room still reads 0. This is making me crazy.


 
If the gaskets were damaged you'd be smelling wood smoke, unless you were burning plastic or construction debris..


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 11, 2012)

He supposedly replaced his bad section.


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## rexrules (Dec 11, 2012)

I replaced the old duravent that was leaking with pellet vent pro.

Could this really be the rtv still curing? I know what smoke from the stove chow smells like thanks to the old duravent that was replaced. It is definatley a plastic smell.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 11, 2012)

That rtv should have setup fairly fast and be cured by now.

Exactly how strong is it now compared to yesterday?

And did you check to see if something was against the exhaust system.  Some of that wiring can take a beating and still work but it will emit vapors.


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## rexrules (Dec 11, 2012)

The smell is only a little bit less than yesterday. The only thing that come close to the exhaust is one of the vacuum tubes, but that has always been like that and this problem just started when I replaced the venting. I have tried finding smoke on start up, but I don't see any. The smell actually starts when the stove has warmed up a little bit.

CO detector in the room is still reading 0. I wish I could figure out if this is a stove issue or venting issue. I could call englander if it is the stove. I think I am just going to give it a couple more hours and see if it gets any better.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 11, 2012)

No body stuck a toy into the convection side of the stove did they, there have been cases of crayons and small plastic cars being found in room air sides of stoves.


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

I found out what is causing the smell. There is a sticky brown/red liquid inside the connections of the pipes. Hoping this is just oil used when making the pipe. If so I can't believe it hasn't burned off yet.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 12, 2012)

rexrules said:


> I found out what is causing the smell. There is a sticky brown/red liquid inside the connections of the pipes. Hoping this is just oil used when making the pipe. If so I can't believe it hasn't burned off yet.


 

damn, thats strange, i'll try to remember to forward this thread to a friend who works at duravent see if i can get a comment. i cant imagine the stove dumping enough heat into the pipe to cause this. interesting.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 12, 2012)

What's worse is you shouldn't be smelling anything from inside the vent.

What did that area look like when you installed the vent?

If that is a cooked seal the temperatures were way out of line or the seals were way out of spec.


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

The picture is of the 45 elbow that connects to the stove adapter. The connection to the 24" Horizontal section that goes through the wall looks the same. Tomorrow I will try to see what the connections that are outside the house look like.

The seal on the other end of the pipes looks like they are still in good shape. If I remember correctly I think there was a bunch of clear/white grease on that part of the pipes.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 12, 2012)

rexrules said:


> The picture is of the 45 elbow that connects to the stove adapter. The connection to the 24" Horizontal section that goes through the wall looks the same. Tomorrow I will try to see what the connections that are outside the house look like.
> 
> The seal on the other end of the pipes looks like they are still in good shape. If I remember correctly I think there was a bunch of clear/white grease on that part of the pipes.


 
i could see white grease doing that wonder why it was in there? especially that much


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 12, 2012)

Clear/white grease ????? 

500 or better sealant or 600 silicone rubber seals.

Anything below 475 would be toast , vaporized or flame off.   The wrong stuff actually flares.  I've seen it right Bill?  Leaves a mess.


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

stoveguy2esw said:


> i could see white grease doing that wonder why it was in there? especially that much


 
Think it will eventually burn off? For the first two hours of burning after installing the new pipe there was no smell then it started. Been about 20 hours since the smell started and it hasn't changed at all.


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Clear/white grease ?????
> 
> 500 or better sealant or 600 silicone rubber seals.
> 
> Anything below 475 would be toast , vaporized or flame off. The wrong stuff actually flares. I've seen it right Bill? Leaves a mess.


 
I didn't put the grease there. It came like that.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 12, 2012)

temps in a pellet exhaust stream exiting the coupler will be <500F+ambient intake temp. this is part of safety test, this is air temps in the pipe maxed out (figure 570F) its not likely that the temps in the OP's pipe reached that temp , heck the exhaust blower thermal kick out is 475F  so im doubting he hit that much temp.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 12, 2012)

stoveguy2esw said:


> temps in a pellet exhaust stream exiting the coupler will be <500F+ambient intake temp. this is part of safety test, this is air temps in the pipe maxed out (figure 570F) its not likely that the temps in the OP's pipe reached that temp , heck the exhaust blower thermal kick out is 475F so im doubting he hit that much temp.


 

Assuming normal circumstances I'd agree.   Nothing in the stack should fail in any manner even if the exhaust blower starts the failure and shut down cascade.  The vent stack is your last hope.

Here you have melting in the stack and off gassing into the room the stove is in.  Both are not good, there is also what looks like charing as well.  What does the other end towards the combustion blower look like?


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Assuming normal circumstances I'd agree. Nothing in the stack should fail in any manner even if the exhaust blower starts the failure and shut down cascade. The vent stack is your last hope.
> 
> Here you have melting in the stack and off gassing into the room the stove is in. Both are not good, there is also what looks like charing as well. What does the other end towards the combustion blower look like?


 
I will go take a picture of the other end of the pipes.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm out of here it is late and my eyes have had enough.  But I will be looking at any and all pictures.

Mike I'm not arguing with you on what is supposed to be there I just never take it for granted that coulda, woulda, shouda is what actually has happened. Call me paranoid when it comes to stove issues.


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## rexrules (Dec 12, 2012)

Here are some more pictures. Don't mind the rtv on the outside of the pipes, I was sealing all of the joints to make sure they weren't leaking (after I noticed the smell). You can't see them behind the stove anyway. The ash inside of the pipe is a nice light grey and wipes off easily from the inner stainless pipe.

End of the 45 that attaches to the stove adapter. The Stove Adapter has the same brown/red sticky residue on it as the first picture I posted.2










This is the cleanout tee that is outside of the house. Whatever the grease (?) is it is, still on this portion of the pipe and has only started to burn, turn brown/red a little bit.


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## BoerBoelAmari (Dec 13, 2012)

I just read on somewhere that the duravent pro comes with an oil lubricant on it. My piping is the same way but I don't get any type of smell.  You also shouldn't have to RTV your connections because of the gaskets on the inside. However, I guess it doesnt hurt. I used a metallic tape on all of my interior joints. I'll poke around to see if I can see where I read about the oil that's used. Its escaping me right now.


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## BoerBoelAmari (Dec 13, 2012)

It is a lubricant for the O rings on the pipe. I found it in the first couple of pages of the installation manual. Page 4 to be exact.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 13, 2012)

I have silicone rubber gaskets on my pipe the lubricant used was water.

The fact that a smell is there (after more than enough burn in time to remove any normal residual oils that would be on the outside of the venting, etc ...) tells me that things still are leaking the wood smell has just been replaced by the lubricant smell (when this dissipates I hope there won't be a wood smell).

Call the vent maker tell them about it, maybe you can salvage what you have for pipe.  At the very least they should replace the venting.  

I know this is asking a lot but I'd like to see a picture looking towards where the vent joins the adapter so we can see things at the stove outlet end.


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## BoerBoelAmari (Dec 13, 2012)

The stuff on mine is certainly not water. Maybe water based, but after having put almost a ton of pellets through the stove so far the lubricant is still there. This would tell me its not water based because it would most likely have turned to steam and disappeared.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 13, 2012)

Different vent maker. They came dry and IIRC there is a short list of what they recommend.


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## rexrules (Dec 13, 2012)

I pulled the exhaust blower off last night and everything looks good. The stove adapter has the same brown/red residue  on it as the first picture I posted. I will start the stove again in a little bit to see if anything has changed.


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## rexrules (Dec 13, 2012)

Burned the stove for about two more hours, still getting the smell. I have contacted duravent about the problem and linked them to this thread. Hopefully they help me get this fixed soon.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 13, 2012)

Good, because I'm also going to point you and Duravent to this thread as well:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/odor-from-rutland-high-temp-silicone-500-degree.101023/


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## rexrules (Dec 13, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Good, because I'm also going to point you and Duravent to this thread as well: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/odor-from-rutland-high-temp-silicone-500-degree.101023/


 
I posted in that thread to see if he can take the pipe apart and see if he has the some residue on the pipe connections. I would really like to get this fixed with it getting cold and the holidays coming up!


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## rexrules (Dec 14, 2012)

Manufacturer says the smell is normal and just the oil burning off. I sent a response back asking about the normal amount of time the curing should take.


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## rexrules (Dec 14, 2012)

oldmountvernon said:


> Thats an impressive response time Thumbs up to them but this is the first time im hearing of that but im a noob


 
Got another response from Duravent. If the oil is pooling in one spot, like it is on the connections for my horizontal pipes, using some degreaser to wipe it off is ok.

Guess I will just let this thing burn all day day tomorrow and hope that finishes the curing.


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## LI-Mini-Owner (Dec 14, 2012)

Rex - I hope the long burn fixes it.  I'm gonna check for anything obvious on mine, but will hold off tearing the vent pipe apart until you report back.

I'm still wondering if it's the oil burning off, how are the fumes getting out?  I think both of us used 3M tape on the joints (for me it's just 2 joints inside the house).


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## smwilliamson (Dec 16, 2012)

stoveguy2esw said:


> damn, thats strange, i'll try to remember to forward this thread to a friend who works at duravent see if i can get a comment. i cant imagine the stove dumping enough heat into the pipe to cause this. interesting.


what you are seeing is the oil simpson coats the inside of the stainless with during shipping and or manufacturing. The plastic smell you are smelling is actually a an acrylic sealant simpson uses inside the venting to "melt" into the voids or seems from within the venting. Problem is some of that pipe is so banged up and often too mass produced and there is usually at least one fitting in every install I do that leaking like a bastard. I'm seriously thinking of moving to ICC for new installs if this crap continues....are you reading this Simpson?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 16, 2012)

Ok,

I think you now have the true story. 

If you are smelling it you have a leak.

Now go after warranty replacement until you have no more leaks.


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## rexrules (Dec 16, 2012)

smwilliamson said:


> what you are seeing is the oil simpson coats the inside of the stainless with during shipping and or manufacturing. The plastic smell you are smelling is actually a an acrylic sealant simpson uses inside the venting to "melt" into the voids or seems from within the venting. Problem is some of that pipe is so banged up and often too mass produced and there is usually at least one fitting in every install I do that leaking like a bastard. I'm seriously thinking of moving to ICC for new installs if this crap continues....are you reading this Simpson?


 
I don't think it is the acrylic sealant that I am smelling. When I took the pipes apart I wiped some of the pooling oil off with my finger and smelled it, that is the smell I am getting. The smell is mostly gone, I don't smell it throughout the house anymore, only behind the stove now.

Hopefully by the end of the day the smell will be gone.


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## LI-Mini-Owner (Dec 19, 2012)

Rex - How are you making out?  I've run my stove on hi/off thermostat mode for about 5 days with the Pellet Pro Plus vent pipes.   I can still smell a bit of the "plastic" smell, but it's much better then the first few of hours of burning where we had to have the widows open.


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## rexrules (Dec 19, 2012)

LI-Mini-Owner said:


> Rex - How are you making out? I've run my stove on hi/off thermostat mode for about 5 days with the Pellet Pro Plus vent pipes. I can still smell a bit of the "plastic" smell, but it's much better then the first few of hours of burning where we had to have the widows open.


 
I am in the exact same spot as you are right now. I can really only smell it if put my head behind the stove. It still bothers me enough that the smell is still  there that I won't run the stove while we are sleeping.


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## rexrules (Dec 19, 2012)

I guess I don't have this figured out yet. Maybe this isn't the pipe afterall?

I had been running with the rear panel removed since the smell started. I put the panel back on and the smell has come back, it is coming up from between the panel and the stove about where the auger motors are.


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## Beau (Dec 20, 2012)

Has the smell since dissipated?


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## rexrules (Dec 21, 2012)

Beau said:


> Has the smell since dissipated?


 
For the most part the smell is gone. I can still smell it a little bit when I smell behind the stove. I know everyone says it should be cured by now and shouldn't smell, but I am pretty sure what smell is left is from the RTV. I used ultra copper, maybe since it has such a high temperature rating that has something to do with it.

CO detectors never moved from 0 and no one in the house felt sick or anything so at this point I am not overly worried about. I am thinking about putting a new stove in and moving this one to the garage or basement so I guess if i do that it will help me figure out if it the stove, RTV, or pipe.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 21, 2012)

rexrules said:


> Snip ..... the RTV. I used ultra copper, maybe since it has such a high temperature rating that has something to do with it.


 
Wrong stuff to have used.

ETA: http://www.google.com/search?q=rutland+sealant+500


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## rexrules (Dec 21, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Wrong stuff to have used.
> 
> ETA: http://www.google.com/search?q=rutland sealant 500


 
I could not find the Rutland RTV in any store around here. Did a search here and there are plenty of people who have used the Ultra Copper instead so that's what I used.

Is it really 'wrong' to have used this or just not what you would recommend?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 21, 2012)

It is wrong from the standpoint it isn't anywhere near as odorless as the mixtures produced for the purposes of sealing flues inside a house, it is fine inside the engine cavity of a car or truck or outside where there is tons of air flow.

Temperature wise it is fine.

Even better are the 600 and 800 degree versions.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm curious where abouts do you live?


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## rexrules (Dec 21, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I'm curious where abouts do you live?


Live in NJ. I guess I will turn the stove off and get all of the RTV off and order some of the rutland stuff from amazon.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 21, 2012)

If you have any of the old hardware stores around you they likely carry it.

Ace Hardware carries Rutland products, as does Aubachon.

Read the labels on other silicone sealants and you should see what they are meant to be used for.

Also the usual place to use sealant is on the inside of the pipe joint, the outside can be taped if needed.

If you wait longer perhaps the smell will eventually dissipate assuming it is the RTV used and not a leak in the vent itself (even those can ash seal over time only to reappear when a good cleaning is done).


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## rexrules (Dec 21, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> If you have any of the old hardware stores around you they likely carry it.
> 
> Ace Hardware carries Rutland products, as does Aubachon.
> 
> ...


 
I am sure the smell I am getting now is the RTV and not a leak. The first smell that happened was from the oil on the pipes, it was a much stronger smell and more of a plastic smell.

I have removed the RTV from the outside of the pipes, but the smell is coming from the RTV that I used on the stove adapter.


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## LI-Mini-Owner (Dec 24, 2012)

After a week + of on and off burning, the smell is gone.  Must have been the Duravent pipe oil/coating, not the RTV.


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