# Marvel Mystery Oil



## Beardog (Aug 11, 2012)

Anyone using it in gas engines (4 and 2 stroke). Thinking of starting to use in my 'stuff'. Anyone using it? Any opinions?


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## fossil (Aug 11, 2012)

I'll pass.

http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html


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## Sprinter (Aug 11, 2012)

fossil said:


> I'll pass.
> 
> http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html


Sometimes an owner's manual will even tell you not to use junk like that because it can do more harm than good. Snake oil from way back. My new ZTR mower specifically says not to use gasoline additives and the engine book says not to use oil additives.

I'd be willing to bet that the MSDS would say mineral spirits (like paint thinner or kerosene) and napthalene.. Those are both common chemicals used in additives. Some gas treatments use the same ingredients. Some even use alcohol, as if you need any more of that in your gas...


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## StihlHead (Aug 12, 2012)

I have never used it in anything, and I would never use it in a 2-stroke. There are better products for stabilizing gas, lubricating fuel pumps and cleaning fuel injectors IMO. If you have stickey rings in an older car, add tranny fluid to the oil and run it for a while before changing it. The detergent in there will help degunk the oil sump and sticky rings.

As for gas addatives, I always add StaBil to my off-road gas. Keeps the octane high and prevents phase separation. I run a gas line dryer/fuel injector cleaner 2x a year in my truck. Ethanol in gasoline likes to suck up water and phase separate. I do not use any oil addatives, but I did run Slick-50 in my truck after it was broken in. 175k miles later, the Tundra is still going strong.


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## simple.serf (Aug 12, 2012)

I run MMO in my Gravelys with the early T head engine only (pre 1954). They specifically call for an upper cylinder lube additive in manual on these motors and are extremely susceptible to sticking valves due to how hot they run. I have 3 gravelys with this motor, and I have tested (be it not in a laboratory environment)- additive vs non additive. The unit without the addititve had a stuck exhaust valve within 15 hours runtime. The '47 had no problems when running an additive.

They also do well on 100LL, but that is getting too hard to get for a working motor, and I suppose a 100:1 mix of gas and 2 stroke oil would work as well, however mmo is the only thing that I found that lists itself as an upper cylinder lube.

Understand that this is a special scenario and I wouldn't run it in any other IC engine I have, as they do not need it.


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## MasterMech (Aug 12, 2012)

Beardog said:


> Anyone using it in gas engines (4 and 2 stroke). Thinking of starting to use in my 'stuff'. Anyone using it? Any opinions?


 
Stuff has been around for generations. Waaaayyy back. Prob won't do any harm but also isn't necessary for engines built in the last 40 years.

Better off using something like StarTron or the new formula Stabil to stabilize the fuel and prevent it from corroding the inside of the carburetor.


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## Sprinter (Aug 12, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Stuff has been around for generations. Waaaayyy back. Prob won't do any harm but also isn't necessary for engines built in the last 40 years.
> 
> Better off using something like StarTron or the *new formula Stabil* to stabilize the fuel and prevent it from corroding the inside of the carburetor.


Stabil and some other good stabilizing antioxidants work for increasing shelf life. I think that Marine Stabil does have extra detergents in it to dissolve crud as well, but I'm not sure about that. But Stabil isn't supposed to increase octane rating, or prevent phase separation. Regardless of marketing claims, the only thing that's really going to prevent phase separation is keeping water out your gas, which you always want to do anyway, ethanol or no ethanol.



> I run a gas line dryer/fuel injector cleaner 2x a year in my truck


What kind do you use? I think an occasional use of a good detergent additive like Techron which has the same detergents used in "Top Tier" gas like Chevron, Shell, Texaco, and some others, can be good sometimes especially if you need to clean injectors and they're not too far gone. I do quarrel with the separate "fuel dryers", as most of them, like Heet, are just alcohol (methanol) which you certainly don't want any more of in your gas.


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## bogydave (Aug 12, 2012)

I used to put a few drop in my old 4 cycle lawn mower that was made back in the leaded gas ages. Not sure it helped but I felt like it did, now I add a few drops of 2 cycle oil.
Not sure the burn temps of MM oil though, some oils can cause a carbon build up if it burns.

Sticking with the 2 cycle oils that are made for 2 cycles is what I go with.

Many hours of development & testing into the formula of the 2 cycle oils.
& it works well or we'd all have broken 2 cycle engines.
Part of the reason for the fuel mix to now be 50:1 VS 40:1 or 30:1 is the new formulated 2 cycle oils are that much better. 

(.9 gallons per gallon mix ratio or rinse out the small bottes with gas when mixing to get it all )
I haven't had any issues with 48:1 vs the called for 50:1. But to little oil in the fuel can cause problems.

"Risk Assessment" : is the risk worth it? IMO, No.


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## granpajohn (Aug 12, 2012)

http://www.moyermarine.com/
Certain marine mechanics around here swear by it for Atomic 4 engines. For fuel, oil, everything.
But...these things were built in the 60s, designed to run on leaded gas, etc. The only one I've worked on is a '65 I think. My dad cleaned out his barn and gave me some old cans of MMO. I passed them on to a friend with an Alberg 30 (sailboat, that is). He loves it.


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## Sprinter (Aug 12, 2012)

bogydave said:


> I used to put a few drop in my old 4 cycle lawn mower that was made back in the leaded gas ages. Not sure it helped but I felt like it did, now I add a few drops of 2 cycle oil.
> Not sure the burn temps of MM oil though, some oils can cause a carbon build up if it burns.
> 
> Sticking with the 2 cycle oils that are made for 2 cycles is what I go with.
> ...


OP can correct me, but I got the impression he was wanting to use it in all his IC engines. A few drops, who cares, and maybe it had a role in applications like the old Atomic 4 marine's mentioned above _if used appropriately_ (it probably did), but my quarrel with most of these additives is the misleading and careless marketing. I still think this particular kind of additive can potentially be harmful because it actually thins the oil down and compromises the very lubricity you need from oil. 

MMO and other such solvent additives were used to dissolve sludge deposits back when non-detergent oils were used and sludge build-up was a problem, causing "sticky lifters" and such. Even then, you could get in trouble using solvents like this when chunks of stuff could break off and clog passages and filters. It could also cause leaks where they weren't before. These days oils are so much better and engines so improved those problems aren't issues anymore. Oil companies work hard to formulate well-lubricating detergent (cleaning) motor oils and I'm sure they shudder at the thought of people putting paint thinner and Coleman fuel in them.


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## valley ranch (Aug 12, 2012)

I've used it for years, think it's great. USA used it in fighter planes during WWII.


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## bogydave (Aug 12, 2012)

I was narrow minded thinking. "Use in a chain saw , adding it to  mixed gasoline "


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## Bill (Aug 13, 2012)

I like the smell


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## Jags (Aug 13, 2012)

I have an inline filter that has been cut in half on a band saw to remind me not to use MMO in the fuel.  A pink, clogged fuel filter.  It took two rounds of changing the filter before I figured out the problem.  This was in use on my old (really old) genny power plant.  Now I will just use a few drops of two cycle or diesel fuel in it.

Truth be told, I could NOW probably get away with using nothing, but when I first got it, it was basically a new 1942 engine, with little to no hours and would stick the valves.  It has a little run time on it now.


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## Sprinter (Aug 13, 2012)

Jags said:


> I have an inline filter that has been cut in half on a band saw to remind me not to use MMO in the fuel. A pink, clogged fuel filter. It took two rounds of changing the filter before I figured out the problem. This was in use on my old (really old) genny power plant. Now I will just use a few drops of two cycle or diesel fuel in it.
> 
> Truth be told, I could NOW probably get away with using nothing, but when I first got it, it was basically a new 1942 engine, with little to no hours and would stick the valves. It has a little run time on it now.


How large an engine is that? Sounds interesting.  How did you acquire such an old gen set with few hours?


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## Jags (Aug 13, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> How large an engine is that? Sounds interesting. How did you acquire such an old gen set with few hours?


 
It is an old military genny that never made it to the field.  I bought it from a local fire dept that used to use it for lights, but rarely ran it.  It had a 110V 3 phase 10,000 watt genny head that wasn't of much use in the real world (originally built for running big radios).  You had to load each phase equally.  I ditched it for a standard 220V single phase 10,000 watt head and built all the pulley apparatus to bolt it on.  11hp at 800 rpm (old skool).  I have sped it up some.

(sorry for the hijack - course correction please)


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## Sprinter (Aug 13, 2012)

Okay. I took this to a new thread here in Gear. Don't want the moderators to get overworked!


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## StihlHead (Aug 13, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Stabil and some other good stabilizing antioxidants work for increasing shelf life. I think that Marine Stabil does have extra detergents in it to dissolve crud as well, but I'm not sure about that. But Stabil isn't supposed to increase octane rating, or prevent phase separation. Regardless of marketing claims, the only thing that's really going to prevent phase separation is keeping water out your gas, which you always want to do anyway, ethanol or no ethanol.


 
StaBil will not increase octane, nor is it intended to. It is designed to keep gas 'fresh' and will help maintin the octane rating that gas has when you add it. Which is the main reason that I use it in gas that is apt to be around for up to a year before being used. I add StaBil to my 5 gallon gas cans as soon as I fill them up at the pump, right there at the station. Otherwise gas octane drops pretty fast. I have kept gas fresh for upward of 18 months with red formula StaBil with zero problems (and the main reason I use it). In that same amount of time my oldest brother that does not use gas stabilizers will wind up with gas that smokes and burns funny in his mowers and 2-stroke engines. He ran and left some crappy gas in my mower the last time he borrowed it, and that was the LAST time he will ever borrow it. It is not needed in my truck that is constantly filled with fresh gas every 2 weeks or so.

I have to disagree with you on the second point, and say that StaBil indeed does prevent phase separation in ethanol blended gasoline. That is its other main selling point. Both green and red StaBil will help prevent phase separation, but the newer StaBil green formula is specifically targeted more to preventing phase separation (and less toward maintining octane) in marine engines and in a high moisture/water environment, and it has a lot more corrosion preventative in it (to help prevent damage by the soluble water in the gasoline). The ethanol in blended gasoline attracts moisture like a sponge, and once the water gets into the gas mix, the ethanol wants to separate out with the water (phase separation). StaBil red formula is 95% Petrolium based napthalene, with 5% other addatives (mostly detergents, I would guess). It is designed to be used in dry environments, with pure or E10 blended gas. StaBil green is 80% naptha-like petrolium base (some numbered petrolium distillate that does not have a common name) and 20% addatives. It is designed for use in marine and wet environments, and with E10 gas that is apt to pick up moisture. These products work to suspend, or solubilizes water in gasoline. Once water is made soluble in gasoline, it does not separate from the gasoline with the ethanol and is burned with the gas in the engine.



Sprinter said:


> What kind do you use? I think an occasional use of a good detergent additive like Techron which has the same detergents used in "Top Tier" gas like Chevron, Shell, Texaco, and some others, can be good sometimes especially if you need to clean injectors and they're not too far gone. I do quarrel with the separate "fuel dryers", as most of them, like Heet, are just alcohol (methanol) which you certainly don't want any more of in your gas.


 
I use a cheap fuel injector cleaner/gas line dryer which is mainly isopropyl alchohol. Heet is 99% isopropanol alcohol (not methanol). Methnol treatments are not good in gas becasue methanol reacts with (corrodes) aluminum. Many engine parts these days are made of aluminum (as opposed to steel in the good old days). It does not actually remove water from gasoline; rather, the alcohol solubilizes water in gasoline (like napthalene does in StaBil). I see online that StaBil now has an Ethanol blended gas addative for fuel injector cleaning and gas line drying. I will likely start using that now every 6 months or so in my PU truck.

And no, I do not work for or represent any fuel or fuel addative company. 100% my opinions here...


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## Sprinter (Aug 13, 2012)

> Heet is 99% isopropanol alcohol (not methanol). Methnol treatments are not good in gas becasue methanol reacts with (corrodes) aluminum.


The reason I picked on Heet is it's MSDS here: http://www.deltaindustrial.com/MSDS/FuelsLubesAntifreeze/HeetAntifreeze.pdf Maybe they change formulations now and then.  I see that there is one called "IsoHeet" which is isopropanol.  Hopefully, that's what you're using

This is from Stabil's website FAQ:


> Q: How does Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment handle water?
> A: Ethanol blended fuels can naturally hold up to 4 tbsp of water per gallon (about 0.5%) before phase separation occurs. Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment contains a chemical that will absorb an additional fraction of a percent of water above this amount (around 0.2%), by bonding with the water molecules, allowing this additional amount to pass safely through the engine and out through the tailpipe. Any amount above this will drop to the bottom and phase separate. Removing large amounts of water (more than 0.75%) through bonding will cause poor power/acceleration and sometimes cause the engine to quit. Additionally, it can cause catastrophic engine damage. No engine manufacturer recommends removal of these large amounts of water through bonding.


Apparently, it allows a bit more water to be absorbed before separation begins, but that's about it.


> And no, I do not work for or represent any fuel or fuel addative company.


Me too, in spite of my apparent fondness for Techron


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## StihlHead (Aug 14, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> The reason I picked on Heet is it's MSDS here: http://www.deltaindustrial.com/MSDS/FuelsLubesAntifreeze/HeetAntifreeze.pdf Maybe they change formulations now and then. I see that there is one called "IsoHeet" which is isopropanol. Hopefully, that's what you're using


 
I am not using Heet. I was just replying to your comment about HEET. I am using an el-cheapo off-brand isopropyl alchohol addative (isopropanol is basically the same as isopropyl alchohol). I posted the wrong data from iso-HEET and HEET is indeed mostly methanol. The thing with methanol HEET is that it will sink to the bottom of the tank and scavange any water that may have precipitated or phase separated out (like if your car has been sitting around for a while with phase separated gas in it). The bad thing about methanol HEET is that it is not to be used with 2-stroke engines. iso-HEET dissolves in gas and does not sink and is OK for 2-strokes.



Sprinter said:


> This is from Stabil's website FAQ:
> Apparently, it allows a bit more water to be absorbed before separation begins, but that's about it.


 
Actually its 40% more water, which I would consider a lot. Phase separation occurs at 0.5% water in untreated E10 gas, and at 0.7% water for StaBil Marine treated E10 gas. In my book it "helps to prevent phase separation," but they do not make that claim, as phase separation will occur at some point with water in E10 blended gas. Its BS legalese and what they can and cannot claim.

But as I said, I use StaBil red formula to keep gas octane at its original level (pure gas or E10), and not as much for water issues in E10. I keep my gas dry.


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## Delta-T (Aug 16, 2012)

my old air cooled VW beetles loved MMO, and its great for unsticking stuck things, but I dont think I'd put it into anything really "modern". I too love the smell of it.


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## Beardog (Aug 16, 2012)

Delta-T said:


> my old air cooled VW beetles loved MMO, and its great for unsticking stuck things, but I dont think I'd put it into anything really "modern". I too love the smell of it.



Thanks everyone for the input, good stuff


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## salecker (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi All
 Last year on a road trip my 90 6.2 diesel started making a loud rattling noise,my buddy thats a wrench was with me and we both thought something had let loose.We checked a few things quick and decided to limp to a pulloff.
 We pulled glow plugs loosed injector lines,removed belts and the noise was still there.Anyhow i had a can of MMO in the back of the truck,so i dumped it in and decided to continue on.We had to drive about 30 miles to get to the big city.The noise started to get quiter so i woud speed up till i herd it agin so on,by the time we got to the city it was hardly noticable.
 Still driving the truck and nothing has happend yet,but i would have bet it was going to shed parts when it was ratteling at first.
 I have a new motor waiting to go in so i'm going to keep driving till i don't have anything better to do,then i'll switch motors,and install the turbo/intercooler.
 My experiance with MMO.
 Thomas


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