# Best Size Bar for MS440 Magnum



## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 3, 2016)

Hi.  So I've been running my 440 with a 16" bar from the time I purchased it new, about 3 years or so.  I run a firewood bundle business ($5.00 bundles only), and I use it constantly to process about 36 to 42 cord per year.  I don't cut down trees or anything like that; I get my wood delivered in 6 cord loads of semi tree length? (16' to 20') and usually have 12 - 15 cord settin in the yard up at the shop where I do all my processing. 

So as far as the chainsaw in concerned, all I do is use it to chunk up 16" blocks; I generally cut up about 1.5 cord and then start splitting and stacking.  But lately (as in the last year) I've been struggling with a heck of a lot of lower back pain, particularly when using the chainsaw.  I try to kneel down when cutting, but some times with smaller pieces it just seems to be a lot quicker and easier to step on the wood to hold it in place and cut it, but I have to bend over some to do this, and boyz oh boyz does the old back ever start screamin after a bit of cutting like this.....  So now I'm thinking that I should just get a bigger bar so I don't have to lean over, or at least not as much, to cut when standing up.  I was thinking a 24" or even a 28" bar?  What think ye about such an idea?

Thanks in advance.


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## woodhog73 (Jun 3, 2016)

I've got a 70cc Jonsered 2166/2172 ( husky 372xp) which is same power and class of saw as your 440. Roughly 5.5 ish hp.

I have run a 28 on it with regular chisel 3/8 chain on it and I notice it slows down when buried in hard wood. I'm picky and I like fast cutting saws. A 70cc saw with regular chisel chain on 28 inch bar buried fully in hard wood is not fast. It gets the job done but not like a bigger saw.  Plenty of folks will tell you a 70cc saw will pull a 28 regular chain like knife in butter. I call BS if you need a 28 inch bar in hardwood buried to the tip all the time all day long  get a bigger saw. If just on occasion I suppose that's a different story. Just my opinion.

If your running a bigger bar to avoid bending over more that's controversial. You may be bending over less but your working harder in other areas. First off if your bucking rounds that are 15 inches in diameter for example with a 28 inch bar, your 440 will be slower. It will be noticeable coming from a 16 inch bar on the 440. Secondly the thing is that long of a bar dealing with small wood is cumbersome. Your always watching the tip of the bar because it's so much longer than what your cutting. And you just taxed the saws output with that heavier longer chain, significantly slowing chain speed down to cut small wood with an over sized bar.

That said a 70 cc saw like yours does pull a skip chain on a 28 pretty well so you can deal with bigger wood when needed but obviously it's slower cutting with a skip sequence chain. But prevents bogging. Hopefully.

Honestly a 24-25 is just fine on your 440. So is a 20. And with a 16 inch that's one hell of a firewood saw !


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## 7acres (Jun 3, 2016)

Longer bar and chain will add weight too.


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## claydogg84 (Jun 3, 2016)

24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 3, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I've got a 70cc Jonsered 2166/2172 ( husky 372xp) which is same power and class of saw as your 440. Roughly 5.5 ish hp.
> 
> I have run a 28 on it with regular chisel 3/8 chain on it and I notice it slows down when buried in hard wood. I'm picky and I like fast cutting saws. A 70cc saw with regular chisel chain on 28 inch bar buried fully in hard wood is not fast. It gets the job done but not like a bigger saw.  Plenty of folks will tell you a 70cc saw will pull a 28 regular chain like knife in butter. I call BS if you need a 28 inch bar in hardwood buried to the tip all the time all day long  get a bigger saw. If just on occasion I suppose that's a different story. Just my opinion.
> 
> ...


Thanks Woodhog/Claydogg et al.  That's all good information to chew on.  So maybe I should just move up to the 20" or 24", which has the benefit of being a stock item at the dealers, and also gives me a bit more length to work with without going overboard.


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## woodhog73 (Jun 3, 2016)

claydogg84 said:


> 24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.



I agree sort of but I will say I've also got a ported higher compression Jonsered 2252 very high output 50cc saw and with a 16 inch bar it will not outcut my 70cc saw if I put a 16 inch bar on the 70cc.  I do get what your saying though


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## kevin j (Jun 3, 2016)

The root issue is the bending over, right? Can you eliminate it by changing methods?
Skidsteer and grapple first choice, but I assume you don't have that, or you'd be doing it.
  Any friendly neighbors you could work with for a couple hard days
Can you make a ramp of some sort and roll logs up onto it, even a foot off the ground would sure help.
Log loads dumped nicely, or all mixed up and randomly?

440 with 16 inch should pull an 8T sprocket, if it will oil enough. My 7900. 20 inch, 8T slings chips fast.

Or like others have said, 50-55 cc range would be a lot lighter on the back.

Any small processors available? A simple one using gas chain saw, drop into the splitter would save a lot of handling, but then it needs a skidder or loader


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## TreePointer (Jun 3, 2016)

claydogg84 said:


> 24". You're wasting the 440s potential with a 16" on it. You can get a much smaller, lighter saw that can pull a 16" just as effectively.



+1

24" (Stihl 25") is what I like on a 70cc saw.


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## jetsam (Jun 3, 2016)

You need to give your back a few weeks off so it can heal!  If you can't stop work, maybe hire a temporary helper to do all the stuff that bothers your back.

I might look into getting a smaller second saw, too.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 4, 2016)

kevin j said:


> The root issue is the bending over, right? Can you eliminate it by changing methods?
> Skidsteer and grapple first choice, but I assume you don't have that, or you'd be doing it.
> Any friendly neighbors you could work with for a couple hard days
> Can you make a ramp of some sort and roll logs up onto it, even a foot off the ground would sure help.
> ...



Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  My supplier is the very best when it come to laying out logs for me with an eye to not getting myself killed.  But I don't have any large equipment that would aid in lifting/elevating the wood to make it easier to cut.  Maybe I can swing that with next years budget, but we just finished a complete gut/reno on the bathroom, so I won't be doing anything this year except for cutting/stacking/sellin wood for the remainder of this year.  But having said that, a fella on the other site told me about the Stihl 25" ES Light bar that sounds just like the ticket to help me out; at the very least it won't be adding any weight to the saw whilst giving me an 8" extension on what I'm using now....  I'm really tempted by the 28" ES Light bar as well, but also afraid that it might not perform as well on the 440 as the 24/25"......  Thanks to all of you who have been replying.  I appreciate it.


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## woodhog73 (Jun 4, 2016)

Nice stack of logs. I'm not seeing any logs in the picture that I would personally want a 28 inch bar for. 

You will probably be happy with the 25 inch bar and it's a great match for your saw. 

Lots of wood to process !


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## Dairyman (Jun 4, 2016)

Your 440 will handle a 28" fine. Defiantly get a reduced weight.


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## Jazzberry (Jun 5, 2016)

That stack of logs looks like 026/260 material to me. Your back would love you if you got one.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 5, 2016)

I'm going to have a talk with the guy I bought the saw from (a father and son operation that's been going many years), and I'm hoping that I come away from that discussion with a 25" ES Light bar and chain (or the 28" if he thinks the saw will handle it fine).  We'll see how that works out for me, and if I'm still hurting after that, it will certainly be time to look at getting a smaller, lighter saw that will still rip into the rounds....  Thanks again for all the feedback.


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## woodhog73 (Jun 5, 2016)

Sounds like you have a good plan. The saw handles a 28 inch fine for what your doing but like I said before it will slow it down. A production hand feller would probably want a bigger saw if needing a bar that big all day long, I know when I was felling timber for a paycheck years ago I certainly would. But for your purposes I'm sure it's fine. Opinions vary.

You mentioned smaller lighter saw ?
Google a review called " cutting with Cronkito"  ya sounds strange but some guy ( tree service worker ) did an awesome review of a few saws. A Stihl 046 that he apparently bought new 20 years ago. And a ported 50cc saw that was done by a builder very well known on the website AS.

There's some video that shows just how effective a high output small saw can be. Not just in power but how easy it is to handle and live with for hour after hour of cutting.

Apparently the ported 50cc saw is faster with an 18 inch bar and outcuts his 046. I have a ported 50cc saw so I'm not convinced but his review is pretty darn interesting and may make you wonder if you need a big saw.  just something I stumbled across online.

 Take with a grain of salt.

He claims the 50cc saw is that fast that he doesn't use the 046 ? Or that was my take on it anyways.

 So my point is if your back hurts you that much get a really nice 50cc saw ( ported and muffler modded even better) with an 18 inch bar and it will breeze through those logs in the picture. All at a very light weight. A 50cc saw with a 18 inch bar is less tiring than a 70cc saw with a 28 inch bar, etc, etc my opinion. And if you have a 4 plus hp 50cc saw,  that's gonna be a ripper,  and can handle those logs in your picture without breaking a sweat 

Just a thought


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 5, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Sounds like you have a good plan. The saw handles a 28 inch fine for what your doing but like I said before it will slow it down. A production hand feller would probably want a bigger saw if needing a bar that big all day long, I know when I was felling timber for a paycheck years ago I certainly would. But for your purposes I'm sure it's fine. Opinions vary.
> 
> So my point is if your back hurts you that much get a really nice 50cc saw ( ported and muffler modded even better) with an 18 inch bar and it will breeze through those logs in the picture. All at a very light weight. A 50cc saw with a 18 inch bar is less tiring than a 70cc saw with a 28 inch bar, etc, etc my opinion. And if you have a 4 plus hp 50cc saw,  that's gonna be a ripper,  and can handle those logs in your picture without breaking a sweat.


Thanks for the link, I'll be checking out that video, although after a good nights sleep.....  As far as the smaller lighter saw, I've been thinking a lot about it today while out in the yard splitting, and I think that no matter what happens with the bar purchase (25" or 28" for sure a light version), I'll be needing to purchase something that's gonna be lighter and more maneuverable, because the facts is that I'm just gonna keep getting older, and the arthritis in me back is gonna keep slowing me down more and more.  So I have to say that I agree with you whole-heartedly that the 50cc ripper with all the mods will eventually become my go-to saw for everyday cutting, and that it's all just a matter of time......


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 5, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Google a review called " cutting with Cronkito"  ya sounds strange but some guy ( tree service worker ) did an awesome review of a few saws. A Stihl 046 that he apparently bought new 20 years ago. And a ported 50cc saw that was done by a builder very well known on the website AS.


Well that's a pretty awesome site!  I believe I'm gonna be spending a little bit of time with Cronkito over the next few days (I've already bookmarked the site)....  I love chainsaw websites....


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## Jags (Jun 6, 2016)

A ramp, a winch and some large (read: sturdy) sawbucks and I would be setting those logs up where I don't have to bend. A few hundred quid could make that happen.
At the volume you are working with I would NOT be working at ground level.


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## Highbeam (Jun 6, 2016)

I have a 28" bar, skip chain, on my 64cc dolmar. Done to limit my bending and it works fine for that. No longer. A 28" bar is just long enough for me with my long arms to not easily stick the tip into the dirt without trying. I have cut 42+ inch rounds with it and I thought it did fine. I'm not a pro so a few seconds faster per round on a monster log is not a big deal.

I can't imagine why anybody would put a 16" bar on a 440 and then cut those little logs. The 260 is a much more appropriate tool.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 6, 2016)

Jags said:


> A ramp, a winch and some large (read: sturdy) sawbucks and I would be setting those logs up where I don't have to bend. A few hundred quid could make that happen.
> At the volume you are working with I would NOT be working at ground level.


Yes, that sounds like an idea worth pursuing.  I've been thinking about it ever since you posted.....    thanks.


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## TreePointer (Jun 6, 2016)

I also cut out a lot of bending after getting one of these:  Peavey Mfg 36" Hookeroon (Hume Pickeroon)
I wish had started using one decades ago.  A cant hook/peavey also helps.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 7, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> I also cut out a lot of bending after getting one of these:  Peavey Mfg 36" Hookeroon (Hume Pickeroon)
> I wish had started using one decades ago.  A cant hook/peavey also helps.


I love my hookeroon!  I couldn't live without it either!


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Jun 7, 2016)

Chuck
Noticed that your up in NB!
I'm on my way to my place in Cocagne NB..
Love it up there!


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## Jags (Jun 7, 2016)

Chuck the Canuck said:


> Yes, that sounds like an idea worth pursuing.  I've been thinking about it ever since you posted.....    thanks.


Maybe an old bale elevator as the delivery device to the sawbucks?  Just thinking out loud.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 7, 2016)

Jags said:


> Maybe an old bale elevator as the delivery device to the sawbucks?  Just thinking out loud.


Well thank you for thinking out loud!    I've been sloshing your idea around in my head trying to figure out how I might go about setting something up...  the bale elevator sounds cool; I'll have to google it to get an idea of how big they are and such...  I don't really have a whole lot of room up in front of the shop, which is making things difficult to visualize......  thanks again.

Maybe i can upload a couple of pictures of the processing area to give you all an idea of what I have to work with for space......  later this evening after I'm finish work....


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## Jags (Jun 7, 2016)

Check with the local farmers.  With all the round and large square bale (and even bags) stuff going on now many of the old bale elevators are sitting in da weeds.
(Not sure what you got for critter farmers up your way, though).


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## Allagash350 (Jun 7, 2016)

In response to the thread title, I wouldn't go bigger than a 28. I have a 441 and have used 18, 20, and 36 inch bars. 20 is the sweet spot for mine, an 18 just rips though haha. 
I would look into a lighter saw personally, especially cutting log length wood.


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## Highbeam (Jun 9, 2016)

Jags said:


> Check with the local farmers.  With all the round and large square bale (and even bags) stuff going on now many of the old bale elevators are sitting in da weeds.
> (Not sure what you got for critter farmers up your way, though).



Funny, it is very rare to see people working small bales out here anymore. Lots of white plastic wrapped "marshmallow" bales out here now. Need a tractor to move them though.


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## Jags (Jun 9, 2016)

I am sure there would need to be some hacking and whacking to modify it for height and length.  Could probably rig one so that it could be moved fairly easy.

Edit: "need a tractor to move" - after re-reading, I now suspect you were talking about the bales, not the elevator.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 10, 2016)

Howdy yall.  Just an update to let you know that today I finally picked up my new 28" ES Light bar and chain! I'm really quite happy with the results so far, and I think it is going to be a wonderful addition to the Bundle Kings small cache of back saving tools which will allow me to continue cutting happily into the future.....   Here's a couple of pics showing off the shiny new bar!


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## Jon1270 (Jun 10, 2016)

I've got the same bar for my 044/MS440 mongrel.  Get yourself a loop or two of skip chain for it.


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## Jazzberry (Jun 10, 2016)

Chuck the Canuck said:


> Howdy yall.  Just an update to let you know that today I finally picked up my new 28" ES Light bar and chain! I'm really quite happy with the results so far, and I think it is going to be a wonderful addition to the Bundle Kings small cache of back saving tools which will allow me to continue cutting happily into the future.....   Here's a couple of pics showing off the shiny new bar!




Glad your happy but man that saw is way way overkill for those little toothpicks your cutting.


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## woodhog73 (Jun 10, 2016)

It's his money and if he likes it and it helps his back issues then who is anyone to judge.

Personally I would have put an 18 inch or 20 inch bar on it for those logs. Or keep the 16 inch. It's not a waste of a 70cc saw with a short bar if it works for the user. Although a smaller lighter saw would probably help your back  

However looking at the pictures I've got to say your saw still looks new! My saws look like yours for about 3 or 4 months  ! Cool wood stacks !


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## Jazzberry (Jun 10, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> It's his money and if he likes it and it helps his back issues then who is anyone to judge.
> 
> Personally I would have put an 18 inch or 20 inch bar on it for those logs. Or keep the 16 inch. It's not a waste of a 70cc saw with a short bar if it works for the user. Although a smaller lighter saw would probably help your back
> 
> However looking at the pictures I've got to say your saw still looks new! My saws look like yours for about 3 or 4 months  ! Cool wood stacks !





I was talking about the saw not the blade. A 440 for branches is a little overkill. Look at his stack.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 10, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> It's his money and if he likes it and it helps his back issues then who is anyone to judge.
> 
> Personally I would have put an 18 inch or 20 inch bar on it for those logs. Or keep the 16 inch. It's not a waste of a 70cc saw with a short bar if it works for the user. Although a smaller lighter saw would probably help your back
> 
> However looking at the pictures I've got to say your saw still looks new! My saws look like yours for about 3 or 4 months  ! Cool wood stacks !


Deep down, I do admit that I'm going to have to get a smaller lighter saw eventually, because I've got quite advanced arthritis in my lower spine and in my neck, and no matter how you look at it, the 440 is a heavy saw (at least for this little fella it is)....  But I'm pretty darn happy right now.  Been cutting most of the evening and I feel pretty darn good.

Now back over to what Jags was talking about (lifting the logs with some sort of elevation device) I stopped by to talk to my welder buddy that did up my bundle Jig for me (see pic below).  We started throwing around some ideas and came up with a possible rig that would look something like one level of a rectangular scaffolding rig (albeit built with 2" or 3" square steel tubing) with a heavy duty set of wheels on the bottom to give it mobility, and one or possibly two winches fixed on the top and sort of offset from the center by maybe 1.5' or 2'.    So basically I'd pull down a log of the pile and use the peavey to roll it over a couple of feet and then roll this mobile winch rig over top of the log until it's centred.  Then it's a simple matter of hooking up the log to the winch(es) and hauling it up 24" or 36" off the ground.  Then I just whip out my bran new little MS291 (which I'll have bought by then) and start chunking 'er up at my leisure, and Bob's Yer Uncle!  

Cheers


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 10, 2016)

Jazzberry said:


> I was talking about the saw not the blade. A 044 for branches is a little overkill. Look at his stack.


Well it's the only saw I've got, so it cuts the biggest logs in the pile and the smallest branches in the pile as well...      I cut everything that comes in on a load, no waste whatsoever, and those small little branches are darn handy for gettin tucked into the bundles I sell to make em good and solid....


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## woodhog73 (Jun 11, 2016)

Chuck the Canuck said:


> Well it's the only saw I've got, so it cuts the biggest logs in the pile and the smallest branches in the pile as well...



Have to use what you got makes sense. I understand because I used to use a big saw for everything because that's really all I had. Nowadays though my 50cc saw gets used 9 out of 10 times and my bigger saws stay on the bench. They are there when and if I need them.

By the way you mentioned getting a little ms291!! if those are anything like the older ms290 they are just dang near as heavy as your 044 minus close to half the power. If your staying with Stihl a used 026 or 260 or if your buying new a 261. Or consider some different brands other than Stihl for some good options in the 50cc pro saw category.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 11, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Have to use what you got makes sense. I understand because I used to use a big saw for everything because that's really all I had. Nowadays though my 50cc saw gets used 9 out of 10 times and my bigger saws stay on the bench. They are there when and if I need them.
> 
> By the way you mentioned getting a little ms291!! if those are anything like the older ms290 they are just dang near as heavy as your 044 minus close to half the power. If your staying with Stihl a used 026 or 260 or if your buying new a 261. Or consider some different brands other than Stihl for some good options in the 50cc pro saw category.


Well heck yes, you're absolutely right!  The 261 would definitely be the saw to fill in the "lighter saw" category...  significantly lighter than the 440 and the 291...  Good call, and thanks!  

And by the way, would the 261 be able to pull a 20" bar alright?


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## Jon1270 (Jun 11, 2016)

Chuck the Canuck said:


> Well heck yes, you're absolutely right!  The 261 would definitely be the saw to fill in the "lighter saw" category...  significantly lighter than the 440 and the 291...  Good call, and thanks!
> 
> And by the way, would the 261 be able to pull a 20" bar alright?



20" is a little on the long side for a 261, much as a 28" is for the 440.  Doable in both cases, but it'll slow the cut a bit.

A Husqvarna 545 or 550 would be an excellent alternative to the 261.

If I were shopping for the ultimate 20" B&C setup for a 261, I'd get a Picco sprocket, a Cannon Supermini bar and some loops of Stihl 63PS (chisel) or Oregon 91VXL (semi-chisel) to fit.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 11, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> 20" is a little on the long side for a 261, much as a 28" is for the 440.  Doable in both cases, but it'll slow the cut a bit.
> 
> A Husqvarna 545 or 550 would be an excellent alternative to the 261.
> 
> If I were shopping for the ultimate 20" B&C setup for a 261, I'd get a Picco sprocket, a Cannon Supermini bar and some loops of Stihl 63PS (chisel) or Oregon 91VXL (semi-chisel) to fit.


Well to be honest I hadn't really noticefd any difference in performance with the new bar on the 440, although I'm far from an expert on judging how a machine operates just by sound or whatever.   It sure seemed to cut just as nice and quick as usual....


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## Jon1270 (Jun 11, 2016)

Chuck the Canuck said:


> Well to be honest I hadn't really noticefd any difference in performance with the new bar on the 440, although I'm far from an expert on judging how a machine operates just by sound or whatever.   It sure seemed to cut just as nice and quick as usual....



True, when we think about bar length tolerances we're assuming you'd actually be using the entire length to cut with.  If you're only bucking 15" logs then the performance difference would be minimal.


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## Chuck the Canuck (Jun 11, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> True, if you're only bucking 15" logs then the performance difference would be minimal.


And just imagine if you're only bucking an 8" or a 6" stick.....


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