# finding a gas stove big enough..



## ilmbg (Aug 13, 2009)

I may be getting a gas stove through some Federal aid.  I am sure they would want to spend the least amount.  My house is very, very cold in the winter sometimes 40 degrees at nite, 50 day.  My house is 'open', with 23 foot ceilings.  It is 1700ft2.  I had a guy come out from the local gas/wood/pellet stove place.  He said there wasn't any brand that could heat the house, that the biggest was about 44,000 btu, and that it wouldn't be near what I needed.
What do you say?  Right now I have no gas- either propane or natural.  I only have electric, and because it is a small co-op it is very expensive.
Thanks


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## Wet1 (Aug 13, 2009)

I would agree that a 44k btu gas stove probably wouldn't heat your place by itself, but coupled with your existing electric heat, I suspect both would do the job... it would certainly make a big improvement!  

Are you looking to completely eliminate your electrical heating?  Do you have access to NG?  Would you have to pay to have it run to your house?  As Pook mentioned, propane can be expensive in some places.  Do you have room for a gas furnace?  What about wood or pellets?  Either would be cheaper than electric heat, but both require a little work.

BTW, get some good ceiling fans in that place if you don't already have them


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## DAKSY (Aug 13, 2009)

How old is your home & how well is it insulated?
If it's relatively new, crab's butt tight & well insulated,
you'll need a minimum of 51K BTU OUTPUT to heat it.
At 75% efficiency, you'll need 68K BTU INPUT...
One gas stove won't do it, but TWO will...


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 14, 2009)

How big is the open area of the house where the stove will go?  Being a space heater the stove is going to do it's best in the room it's in and will not do as well with side rooms.  

Matt


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## ilmbg (Aug 14, 2009)

The house is 25 years old.  Independent Living (for disabled people), is trying to see if they can get a new roof, as this one is leaking, and has only R11- cathedral ceiling- but that might not go through- just don't know yet.
I had a weatherization test done- the fan thing- it said my house was quite tight, but when the winds blow, almost all the time in the winter, I can feel a big draft.  I don't know if the draft is the upper air circulationg towards the bottom, but it is drafty.  There are 2 skylights that I am sure let alot of air in.  They are the kind that open.  
There isn't natural gas here- it is 3,000 ft away, which Montana/Dakota say would be about $3,500 to bring to the house.  There is a 4 foot crawl space under the house- that is another area that needs to be insulated- it has none.
There really isn't any way to use just a portion of the house- it is 'high and open', unfortunately.
Electric is very expensive here- I did use the Cove heating strip (12ft) with the pellet stove, and last winter the electric bill was $400 keeping it at 50 degrees!Plus the $250 for a ton of pellets!  $600 a month is just not doable.  Not good.  Also, my asthma has become so bad that I can't use the pellet stove- even though it is supposed to be contained, there is enough 'stuff' to trigger asthma that turns into pneumonia.
So- I am hoping LIEAP approves a furnace. Or if not, a gas stove.


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 14, 2009)

Do you have a fan pushing heat down from the cathedral ceiling?  I bet a good amount of heat is sitting up at the ceiling since R11 will hold heat in fairly well.  

Is there any way that they will spread the $3500 out over a few years in payments?   That's much lower than their cost to put the line in.   

Matt


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## Highbeam (Aug 15, 2009)

Why are you considering a stove? A furnace will be cheaper and have all the btus you need. It's certainly possible to use a stove but you will be paying extra for the aesthetics and charm when it sounds like you have more of a utility need.


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## tanjr67 (Aug 22, 2009)

You didn't state if you had a chimney.  If you have electric then Pellet is the way to go and i'd recommend the Quadrafire Mount Vernon AE and if wood then maybe the Soapstone Equinox..


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## ilmbg (Sep 20, 2009)

It's been a month- but I didn't know the answers then...
Friday a furnace contractor came out with the weatherization guy.
My home is earthbound on 3 sides, with a 2-1/2 foot crawlspace.  They were trying to decide what type of heat would work- it seems there isn't a way to put a furnace in the garage and vent it to the house- although I still don't see why0 there is a 20" area made for ductwork by the former owner/builder....Putting a gas fireplace seems to be a problem as far as getting a gas line into the house.  I do have 2 chimneys- (I can no longer use the pellet stove due to severe asthma/COPD).
Both the furnace contracter and weatherization are wanting to talk to someone about mini splits.  I am under the understanding that they are NOT good for a climate such as mine- northern rockies.  I do need to get 2 ceiling fans put up- I already have the electric to the ceiling, but can't find anyone who will do it (23'ceilings seem to be too much for the handymen out here- unbelievable)!
Someone mentioned a type of furnace- I have to look it up...


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## COAL STOVE (Sep 20, 2009)

Have you considered a boiler, using a combination of radiators and a hydro air handler? With what you have described, finding a place to put a system, I think that a hydro air system may be a very good alternative. Then you have the option to choose the fuel you want for your boiler selection, with the option to easily add another fuel type boiler at a later time, and have the endless possibilities for heat distribution, plus providing your year round supply of domestic hot water from your boiler. Thus, no longer needing your hot water tank heater.

If I would have known about hydro air combination systems before I installed my home central heating system, that is the way I would go. The nice thing about having a hydro system is that you can place the boiler anywhere and run the heat through the pipes to either hot water radiators, whether they are conventional or baseboard, and also place as many hot water coil air handlers, in areas that will fit, without having a trunk duct from a furnace and having to fit all of that big, space consuming duct work. This will allow for a clean installation, with little space consumed from your house, while giving you the option to zone different heated areas for the needed demand. Thus, making a fuel efficient central heating system.

Just a thought.


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## ilmbg (Sep 20, 2009)

firestarter-  I have not heard of these- I tried Googling some pictures but didn't come up with anything.  Do you know of a site that shows pics?  Would the main handler part go in the garage or outside?  I take it that then a  pipe must run to each room (in the crawlspace, maybe?)- although the crawlspace is not under the garage, just the main part of the house.  It is scary when the furnace contractor says he can't see a way to get heat here.


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## COAL STOVE (Sep 20, 2009)

You basically have a hot water system. You use a gas, electric, propane, fuel oil, wood, pellet, or coal boiler, sized for the amount of heat you need, and place it some place out of the way, but have access to the boiler. Example, your garage. Then you have the option of running baseboard radiators, loop pex style tubing under the floor or embedded into the floor, like under the ceramic tile, cast iron radiators or a hot water coil inside a sheet metal box, with a blower fan, called an air handler. The hot water boiler will also handle your domestic hot water heating, year round, eliminating the need for a hot water tank.

Here is an example of such product. http://freeheatmachine.com/options.html I'm not endorsing any particular product, its just something I found real quick through google to get you an idea.

The nice thing about using a boiler is that you can run the heat anywhere using pipes, which can also be the pex style tubing, under floor joists, between walls, easily. I'm sure a good heating contractor in your area could help you with many options for your specific application, once that you tell them what you are thinking of doing. I found that most heating contractors usually avoid stuff like this, mainly because of the money is made from quick furnace and duct work jobs. Once you know how much radiation that you need for each location, it is pretty straight forward installing the pipe runs and connections. You maybe able to do most of the work yourself, if you are a handy man.

I don't quite know or understand the space limitations that you are dealing with in your house, but this type of system takes up little space to move the heat. The only space you may sacrifice is, if and when, and what kind of hot air handler you want to install. I've seen some really neat stuff out there, small in the wall, small in the floor, and small duct water coils, to very large blower style. 

Here are some more links to some interesting options. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/heating-equipment/hydronic-kickspace-heaters http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/heating-equipment/hydronic-heater-kits http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/heating-equipment/hydronic-unit-heaters http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/heating-equipment/hydronic-heater-elements http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/heating-equipment/hydronic-heater-enclosures

I hope this helps.


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## KeithO (Sep 22, 2009)

With the high ceilings, I would suggest that radiant heat in the floor (with insulation below of course) would be the way to go.  It would be the most comfortable at the lowest indicated temperature (wall type thermostat).  It would also generate the least stratification (hot air below the ceiling and cold on the floor).  It would also not dry out the air quite as much as a convection style system (air is already dry enough as is).

I'm not understanding the reference to pellets and astma / COPD ?   Is the tiny amount of ash released when emptying out the system the problem ?  There is nothing whatsoever when running and if your system has a big hopper it will only need fuel added every other day or less.  Cleaning out any kind of wood burning stove will be worse in my experience.


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## ilmbg (Sep 22, 2009)

keith-  Yep- the pellets have enough dust in them to trigger an attack, and when cleaning the pellet stove it is worse.   Even though it is a 'closed' system, there is a minute amount.  The floor heat would be the best- I had another person here today to look at the house-  I would have to put a new floor in, though.  He suggested using a boiler system- but they don't know if they can vent it logically.


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