# DESIGNING A NEW HOUSE FOR WOOD HEATING



## Montanalocal (Mar 2, 2015)

Following up on the subject of new construction in a recent post, I wanted to post this article I wrote some time ago.  I am not new to wood burning, having over 25 years of experience in the house I draw these examples from.  I heat it exclusively with wood which I get all myself.  Please jump in with your additions.


DESIGNING A NEW HOUSE FOR WOOD HEATING

While most people have to make do with what they have when it comes to wood heating, for those building new and planning on heating with wood, there are a few things to keep in mind during the design phase.

Site Placement.

Firewood storage and splitting should be an integral part of the placement and landscaping.  You will want access by pickup, and plenty of room to expand, and a place to use and store the splitter.  Think of a place for several piles, one for green wood seasoning, and one for split ready to burn wood.  The green pile can be some distance from the house, but the ready to burn should be easily accessible to the house.

An ideal set up would have additional short term places to store wood.  An attached garage or wood shed could have room for a good amount of wood kept dry, and the stove room a day's worth.

It is also good during the initial placement to keep in mind passive solar gain.  With large windows oriented to the south, on sunny days it is possible to let the stove go out during the day.  Calculate the roof overhang according to your latitude so that you get the low winter sun, and are shaded during the hot summer.  Proud roofs are good.  Make sure no trees interfere with the sun.

House layout.

It is much easier to distribute heat in a two story structure.  You would want your stove room to be on the first floor, with a wide staircase leading to the second floor for natural air convection.

The stove room.

This is the room you will have your stove in.  It should not be a room that you spend a lot of time living in, as normally you will have to overheat this room in order for the rest of the house to be warm.  You can use this for activities that do not require one to be there for long periods of time.

Also, think of the path that you will use to bring wood into this room.  That path, and the room itself will inevitably accumulate bits of bark and wood chips from bringing wood in on a regular basis.  The path should probably not go through the whole house.  An ideal situation would be a small hallway connected to an attached garage to bring wood in.

The Chimney.

The chimney should be in the center of the house and come up through the peak of the roof.  Chimneys at the ends of the house will radiate and lose heat to the outside.  Chimneys coming up through any place except the peak will have to be much higher because of draft considerations, and will be much harder to access for cleaning.  In addition, the roof should be as flat as possible to facilitate walking on it for cleaning.  Another consideration for roofing is not to use metal roofing.  They have very unstable footing, especially with snow on them.  There are currently available fiberglass 50 year elk shingles that carry a class A fire rating that have very good traction.

Ideally the chimney should incorporate the maximum amount of thermal mass possible.  If possible and financially affordable, it could consist of a large cement block outer layer, with rock or brick facing on the cement blocks.  Inside this would be rock rubble, with a masonry flue, lined or not as the case may be.    This would extend on up through the second story and out the roof.  One can additionally pile rocks around the stove and use rock for the hearth.  When all this mass heats up, it will radiate heat for a considerable period of time.  The chimney base should be designed from the start to have its own footings.

Upper living area design.

The majority of your living area should be on the second floor, and should have a very open design to allow heat to move freely. It is a good idea to wire in ceiling fans in some of the larger rooms.


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## Mag Craft (Mar 2, 2015)

Been there and have already done this.   The only difference is my house is a walk out basement so I put a wood stove down stairs and up stairs both.    Since most of my living area is up stairs that is where I do most of my heating.   The up stairs is a open floor plan and the heat dissipates very well.    I like the fact that the master bed room stays alittle cooler then where the stove room is.   It makes for better sleeping when cooler.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 2, 2015)

I concur with a lot here ... some advice though ... not so much.

Flat roofs in places with high snow loads tend to be exceptionally bad ideas and metal roofs are ideal for places with lots of snow. Access to the chimney for cleaning can be accomplished through alternative methods ... such as cleaning from the ground.

Also while most folks tend to agree on the ideal placement of chimneys as close to the center of the house ... I would guess the main reason is for the draft. Me ... with a modern stove ... I tend to gain the majority of the heat from the stove and not the chimney. That said, your point about thermal mass makes sense to me.

Final counterpoint ... a properly sized and set up stove should be where folks spend the most time ... as mentioned ...,whether it be on the first or second floor. In my own case most of the first floor where the stove is located is warmest ... the second floor however is warm enough due to the aforementioned natural flow of the heat upstairs.


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## wardk (Mar 2, 2015)

I don't know your insurance rates in MT , but I got a $500 reduction in my premium for removing a wood burning appliance from the house. I built a boiler building away from the house insurance on it is $16 a year.With new construction I would include hydronic tubes in the slab best heating ever.The boiler was expensive but my electric bill for the cold months went from $900 to $150 Still a long payback but the house and shop are warm.


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## tjcole50 (Mar 2, 2015)

Ice on the back side of thay gutter? Add flashing/drip edge. Sorry had this issue recently and solved water problem behind hutter. Any it seems the interior chimney thing isnt as important anymore. I know a couple people with older style setups and the center chimney helped. Now they have a modern epa stove with insulatEd liner now it doesn't work like the old setup if that makes sense


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## mark cline (Mar 3, 2015)

All these ideas have been taken into consideration in the planning and building of my custom log home . The 2 flue chimney goes up through the center of the house , all block and stone , about 35 tons plus an 8'x12' x2' concrete footer .Radiant tubing throughout the basement/ man cave  and first floor . The mansfield will do the bulk of the heating with another woodstove in the basement. The floor plan is wide open , only a loft up stairs , so 26' ft to the ridge , 26500 cu ft about equal to a 4900 sq ft home . South facing , large energy efficient windows , R65 roof , basement walls  made from insulated concrete forms with an additional 1" foam insulation  R21. So no rooms to overheat just wide open space , 5 large ceiling fans to keep the warm air circulating , overhangs to shade the summer sun and to allow in the winter sun. Metal roof overall with 12/12 pitch to shed the snow , over 140 " of snow so far  this year.


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## DougA (Mar 3, 2015)

Montanalocal said:


> This is the room you will have your stove in. It should not be a room that you spend a lot of time living in, as normally you will have to overheat this room in order for the rest of the house to be warm. You can use this for activities that do not require one to be there for long periods of time.


I can't disagree more strongly.  If your stove is sized correctly, it should heat the room your family spends most of the time in.  We have an open plan with a 900' living/dining room and no walls to the kitchen.  The bedrooms are attached to this area and get some heat but are not as warm by design. We like our living area in the 74F range but the bedrooms in the 65F range. Cooler air makes for better sleep.

I also don't agree that a stove placed in the middle is any better than on the outside.  We put our stove in a 4' wall between the glass section, where the main roof supports are. Why? Placing a heat source in the middle is disruptive in design but more importantly, having it closer to the windows, negates the cool air that will always be a problem with a large expanse of windows at night.

We looked at a cement/stone chimney and opted for double walled stove pipe with real stone veneer behind it. You gain a lot of heat from the stove pipe and the stone helps re-radiate the heat.  We have a high mass house with tons and tons of cement and I have to admit that I would not repeat that if I built again. Even with most of the cement exposed to the heat from the sun, once the sun sets, the heat dissipates quickly, so the net benefit is negligible. IMHO, mass is not worth the cost.

I do agree that south facing windows are a major asset. We've got 200 sq ft of glass facing south, with proper overhangs, that heat the room perfectly on sunny days, even if it is bitterly cold and windy outside.

One design factor that I would love to add is from a discussion with a neighbor. I have a single outside door, 12' from the stove to the outdoor wood pile for wood hauling. He put in patio doors, wide enough for a a wood bin. He stores all his wood in large bins in the barn, then grabs a bin with his tractor/loader and places the entire bin inside the house at the patio doors.  No more hauling wood by hand! Ingenious.


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## OHutton (Mar 5, 2015)

Interesting thread. I've thought a lot about how I'd do it if I ever built my own house.

I always have liked a cooler bedroom as well. My wife and I keep our living room where the insert is closed off to the rest of the house until we go to bed. It helps keep the heat where we want it and we consume less wood. Once we do open the doors up, all the heat goes rushing upstairs and it's hard to keep our leaky house warm at that point.

We don't heat 100% with wood though, so that does factor in. Thermostat is at 65 with natural gas normally and then the stove takes it from there into the mid 70s. We don't burn 24/7 either unless it's real cold and let's face it, the NorCal valley does not get real cold.

I like seeing everybody's ideas. Good things to chew on until I get it all figured out.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 5, 2015)

wardk said:


> I don't know your insurance rates in MT , but I got a $500 reduction in my premium for removing a wood burning appliance from the house. I built a boiler building away from the house insurance on it is $16 a year.With new construction I would include hydronic tubes in the slab best heating ever.The boiler was expensive but my electric bill for the cold months went from $900 to $150 Still a long payback but the house and shop are warm.


If I could get a $500 reduction on my (yearly?) house insurance premium for removing my wood burning appliance I'd only be paying about $75 a year.
I've heard of getting a surcharge for having a wood stove in your house, but $500 extra seems a bit excessive.

As to designing a house for wood heat, I think in order for anything to work well you first need make sure your house is well insulated. I agree with having large thermal mass to absorb the excess heat while the stove is going, and re-radiating again slowly during periods when the stove is not active is a good idea, but that mass should not be exposed in any way to the outdoors because a lot of that stored heat will simply be lost to the outdoors, so a concrete exterior wall, or an exposed brick chimney and flue would not be an efficient mass for storing heat.

What I'd like to see would be in floor heating lines run throughout the house with a large fluid mass storage reservoir strategically located somewhere in the house and lines built into alcove walls to absorb the excess heat from a wood stove placed in the alcove. Having a system like that I believe would be the most efficient way of distributing the heat from the wood stove throughout the house because water mass is one of the best thermal masses you can have, and you could silently control the system flow to the rooms that needed it the most and restrict it where you don't need it. I have always felt that in floor heating is the most comfortable heat there is, so to be able to use that in combination with a visible wood stove I think would be the best of both worlds.


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## JustWood (Mar 5, 2015)

Designed an addition I put on my house about 15 years ago around wood heating and ease of wood handling present and into future as I aged.
 Glad I did. Reaping the benefits of it already.
Had I known I would be burning/mixing coal I would have designed differently.


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## wardk (Mar 5, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> If I could get a $500 reduction on my (yearly?) house insurance premium for removing my wood burning appliance I'd only be paying about $75 a year.
> I've heard of getting a surcharge for having a wood stove in your house, but $500 extra seems a bit excessive.
> 
> As to designing a house for wood heat, I think in order for anything to work well you first need make sure your house is well insulated. I agree with having large thermal mass to absorb the excess heat while the stove is going, and re-radiating again slowly during periods when the stove is not active is a good idea, but that mass should not be exposed in any way to the outdoors because a lot of that stored heat will simply be lost to the outdoors, so a concrete exterior wall, or an exposed brick chimney and flue would not be an efficient mass for storing heat.
> ...


I want your Insurance company , just got this years quote $ 2720.00 with $1000.00 deductible.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 5, 2015)

An older couple that we are friends with build their home with a large masonry furnace in the middle of the home that is fed from the basement and come through the center of the main level.  There is zero smoke smell and it was quite beautiful.  They feed it 2 times per day in the most bitter cold.  
Cost about $15k but well worth it in the long run.  First time I have ever seen something like that.


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## JrCRXHF (Mar 5, 2015)

In-floor heat and outside boiler room with lots of storage for both hot water and wood. Maybe setup a TV and bar top in that building just because.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 5, 2015)

Always have liked the look and concept of a loft . . . until I saw my Uncle and Aunt struggle with keeping the loft and upstairs bedrooms from getting overly hot while having the first floor be quite cool despite the use of several ceiling fans. I know it can be done . . . but I suspect lofts are not really all that great if the goal is to have a more even heat in the entire home.

For the record, when they built a new home I noticed that in their living room they now only have a slightly vaulted ceiling . . . it gives a little more "open-ness" but not at the expense of "losing" a lot of the heat into an area not occupied by a human being.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 5, 2015)

That's been my experience with lofts too, not only with heating the house, but also during the heat of the summer, lofts tend to get uncomfortably warm.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 6, 2015)

I love the high ceilings in my home.  All the common rooms have 12-20' and the bedrooms are 10'.  Very spacious feeling and only 2,000 sqft.  

The loft is a great way to not get taxed for an extra bedroom, but still have the space.  When my brother is in town, his kids love sleeping up there.


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## iluvjazznjava (Mar 6, 2015)

wardk said:


> I want your Insurance company , just got this years quote $ 2720.00 with $1000.00 deductible.



Ouch - shop around a bit more.  I'd be surprised if you couldn't do much better.  You are in Canada too, so give TD Insurance a call.  That's who I use.  I do get a corporate discount through my work (about 30% I believe), but for my entire house (3,000 sq ft) its only about $800 a year.  That includes the roughly $60 extra that they charged me for having "dual source heat."  They did require me to send in a picture of my wood stove, but there are no mandatory annual inspections or anything.


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## wardk (Mar 7, 2015)

iluvjazznjava said:


> Ouch - shop around a bit more.  I'd be surprised if you couldn't do much better.  You are in Canada too, so give TD Insurance a call.  That's who I use.  I do get a corporate discount through my work (about 30% I believe), but for my entire house (3,000 sq ft) its only about $800 a year.  That includes the roughly $60 extra that they charged me for having "dual source heat."  They did require me to send in a picture of my wood stove, but there are no mandatory annual inspections or anything.


The insurance agent said he shopped all the companies at his disposal, the reasons for the cost , serviced by a volunteer fire dept and no fire hydrants.


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## dougstove (Mar 7, 2015)

If the house has an attic, I disagree about the big masonry chimney.
A masonry mass within the conditioned space makes sense but a masonry column sticking up above the roof is a massive radiator to the attic (probably unconditioned space) and out to space above the roof.

I also disagree with the OP about the stove room.  I heat my stove room warm for sitting in the evening, and keep the rest of the house cooler for sleeping.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 7, 2015)

wardk said:


> The insurance agent said he shopped all the companies at his disposal, the reasons for the cost , serviced by a volunteer fire dept and no fire hydrants.


I'm with iluvjazz on this one, $2720 seems high, even with being out of range of a fire hydrant and the volunteer fire dept thing. Been there before, it only added about $100 extra to my premium. But of course we have no idea of the amount of insurance coverage you need for your place. The more expensive the house, the more coverage you'll need. Going by what your premiums are compared to my premiums, and the replacement value of my home, a little math says your house should be valued at over $1,000,000.  Am I close?


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## Swedishchef (Mar 7, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> I'm with iluvjazz on this one, $2720 seems high, even with being out of range of a fire hydrant and the volunteer fire dept thing. Been there before, it only added about $100 extra to my premium. But of course we have no idea of the amount of insurance coverage you need for your place. The more expensive the house, the more coverage you'll need. Going by what your premiums are compared to my premiums, and the replacement value of my home, a little math says your house should be valued at over $1,000,000.  Am I close?


My house is insured for $575 000 (contents and rebuild cost)..I have no hydrants and it is a volunteer fire department that services my area. $500 deductible and it costs me $860 a year.

When my house insurance starts costing me more than my car insurance, internet and phone and cable combined..it's time to look at moving into a yurt.


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## begreen (Mar 7, 2015)

> This is the room you will have your stove in. It should not be a room that you spend a lot of time living in, as normally you will have to overheat this room in order for the rest of the house to be warm. You can use this for activities that do not require one to be there for long periods of time.



Definitely have to take exception to this statement. If you are designing a house correctly the stove room should be at the center of the house, inside chimney and in a place where people like to congregate and hang out. Ideally one has designed the house with an open floor plan that does not trap the heat in a single room. The stove area may be a bit warmer from radiant heat of the stove, but not uncomfortable. If this area is small, stick with a convective stove.  FWIW, our stove is in our living room of modest proportion. The room is very open to the kitchen and dining room and has a large opening to the hall with the stairway. The living room maybe gets 2 degrees warmer than adjacent areas.

Oh, and by all means avoid the temptation to put a cathedral ceiling in. They are heat traps. Cathedral ceiling + loft = baked bedrooms, cool living room down below.


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## wardk (Mar 7, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> My house is insured for $575 000 (contents and rebuild cost)..I have no hydrants and it is a volunteer fire department that services my area. $500 deductible and it costs me $860 a year.
> 
> When my house insurance starts costing me more than my car insurance, internet and phone and cable combined..it's time to look at moving into a yurt.


I;m about where you are can you tell me the name of your insurer.


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## wardk (Mar 7, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> I'm with iluvjazz on this one, $2720 seems high, even with being out of range of a fire hydrant and the volunteer fire dept thing. Been there before, it only added about $100 extra to my premium. But of course we have no idea of the amount of insurance coverage you need for your place. The more expensive the house, the more coverage you'll need. Going by what your premiums are compared to my premiums, and the replacement value of my home, a little math says your house should be valued at over $1,000,000.  Am I close?


Insurance is a rip goes up $200 a year . agent tells me I'm lucky I get the claim free discount or it could be much more.Not at $1,000,000  about half that.


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## Swedishchef (Mar 7, 2015)

wardk said:


> I;m about where you are can you tell me the name of your insurer.


I am not sure what you do for a living..but I have a group rate through The Personal (group rate company of Desjardins bank) https://www.thepersonal.com/Pages/P-Welcome.aspx?MCA=P&LNG=EN
Also check out TD Meloche Monnex.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 7, 2015)

wardk said:


> serviced by a volunteer fire dept and no fire hydrants.



After 29 years they pulled that on me. Sent me a bill doubling the cost. The next morning I was in the agents office cancelling the policy on the house and cars. Told him the station hadn't moved and had been staffed with vollies the whole time. He scrambled to start typing and miraculously removed the increase.


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## Highbeam (Mar 8, 2015)

Yikes, many of the recommendations in the op are false.


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## drz1050 (Mar 8, 2015)

Insurance agents only sell insurance for the companies they work with. I tried two different insurance agents when I bought my house, found both of them to be worthless. Found insurance for ~30% cheaper than their best price on my own. Shop around.


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## wardk (Mar 9, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> I am not sure what you do for a living..but I have a group rate through The Personal (group rate company of Desjardins bank) https://www.thepersonal.com/Pages/P-Welcome.aspx?MCA=P&LNG=EN
> Also check out TD Meloche Monnex.


Thanks for the links , I went through the online quote and it was about half what I'm paying now. Great I thought till I told them it was a farm , that was the end of that. "WE DON'T INSURE FARMS GOODBYE"


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## DougA (Mar 9, 2015)

Many of the on line insurers in Canada will not insure anything that is out of their norm. I tried lots of times to get quotes from TD and others and am refused. I've got a business office attached, a wood stove, no hydrants, firehall over 8 kms., etc. They hang up on me pretty fast. Same with my car, I write-off 50% as a business expense. 

Also keep in mind that the local agents are 'supposed' to go to bat for you when there's a claim and the insurer is causing problems. I've had one claim in 30 yrs due to a wind sheer that knocked out power to a thousand homes near us.  It took a week to get new poles and a new line installed. My agent was on their back 2 or 3 times per day. The adjusters were working 24 hrs for weeks. I know I got reimbursed months earlier than others that had on-line insurers. 

I agree that everyone needs to shop around but cost is just one side, you should never forget the other side of insurance - collecting when there is a claim.


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## Montanalocal (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the replies.  It seem there are a lot of different situations.  I have a unregulated non EPA stove, so using it to overheat one room to heat the rest works for me.  I can see using these modern well regulated stoves would give much more versatility in design.  The other thing to consider is the mess in the stove room.  I am a pretty messy guy, and I like all the chips, piles of wood, etc kept away from my living area.  Just keeps the constant cleaning to a minimum.

I still think I love my nice flat roof.  We do not get that much snow here. The main reason I like it is because I need to clean the chimney about every 4 weeks, as we burn pine exclusively.  It really builds up, even though I usually burn wide open.  I am not sure I could use one of the bottom up systems as there is a sharp 90 degree bend at the bottom of the chimney.

If I lived in a high snow area and if money were no object one might be able to design the roof for the snow load using doubled up rafters, thicker rafters, etc.

As to the high mass chimney, it would depend on the proportion within the house.  In my two story house, the greatest proportion by far is inside the house.  Some smaller proportion is in the attic and above the roof.  So when this all heats up, it does radiate some to the outside, but the larger proportion helps heat the house and smooth out the heat.  At least you get some thermal storage benefit vs a double wall stovepipe.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 11, 2015)

Montanalocal said:


> Thanks for all the replies.  It seem there are a lot of different situations.  I have a unregulated non EPA stove, so using it to overheat one room to heat the rest works for me.  I can see using these modern well regulated stoves would give much more versatility in design.  The other thing to consider is the mess in the stove room.  I am a pretty messy guy, and I like all the chips, piles of wood, etc kept away from my living area.  Just keeps the constant cleaning to a minimum.
> 
> I still think I love my nice flat roof.  We do not get that much snow here. The main reason I like it is because* I need to clean the chimney about every 4 weeks, as we burn pine exclusively.  It really builds up,* even though I usually burn wide open.  I am not sure I could use one of the bottom up systems as there is a sharp 90 degree bend at the bottom of the chimney.
> 
> ...


Your statement about the pine makes me think that you believe that burning pine somehow creates more creosote then other types of wood. That simply isn't true. The biggest factor in creosote formation in your chimney is the moisture content of the wood you are burning. If you find you are getting a lot of creosote build up it would be a good idea to check the MC of your pine. 
I also burn pine pretty much exclusively, and could probably get away with a once a year cleaning, or less. However I usually do it a couple times a year just as part of my routine maintenance inspection, and it only take a minute to do while I'm up on the roof.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 11, 2015)

wardk said:


> Thanks for the links , I went through the online quote and it was about half what I'm paying now.* Great I thought till I told them it was a farm ,* that was the end of that. "*WE DON'T INSURE FARMS GOODBYE*"


Perhaps that has something to do with why your rate is so high.  I don't know anything about getting a house insured on a farm?  Does this current insurance cover some outbuildings and farm equipment? I know my _home insurance_ will not cover any of my business (construction) tools or equipment. 
I know they have different rules when your home and property has farm status. Perhaps your lower property tax offsets your higher insurance premiums?


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## Montanalocal (Mar 11, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Your statement about the pine makes me think that you believe that burning pine somehow creates more creosote then other types of wood. That simply isn't true. The biggest factor in creosote formation in your chimney is the moisture content of the wood you are burning. If you find you are getting a lot of creosote build up it would be a good idea to check the MC of your pine.


All my Ponderosa pine is from 4 or 5 year old beetle killed trees, and is so low in moisture that my moisture meter will sometimes not be able to register a reading.  Some of it feels like balsa wood.  I just cleaned a few days ago and  got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me.  Not sure how to reconcile this.


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## wardk (Mar 11, 2015)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Perhaps that has something to do with why your rate is so high.  I don't know anything about getting a house insured on a farm?  Does this current insurance cover some outbuildings and farm equipment? I know my _home insurance_ will not cover any of my business (construction) tools or equipment.
> I know they have different rules when your home and property has farm status. Perhaps your lower property tax offsets your higher insurance premiums?


I wish you were right about taxes, they are about par with insurance. Taxes include no water, no sewer, no sidewalks, no street lights , no fire hydrants and take your garbage to the dump for a fee, good deal.


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## semipro (Mar 12, 2015)

Montanalocal said:


> I just cleaned a few days ago and got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me. Not sure how to reconcile this.


A better stove would likely help. Creosote and smoke are basically fuel that wasn't converted to heat.


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## Lumber-Jack (Mar 12, 2015)

Montanalocal said:


> All my Ponderosa pine is from 4 or 5 year old beetle killed trees, and is so low in moisture that my moisture meter will sometimes not be able to register a reading.  Some of it feels like balsa wood.  I just cleaned a few days ago and  got out about 1.5 gallons of fluffy creosote from 4 weeks ago which is about the norm from me.  Not sure how to reconcile this.


Well there is something going on there to create that much creosote, but if your pine is that dry you can rule that out.  My guess is if you installed an insulated liner in that masonry chimney you'd be down to a cup of creosote a year from that dry pine, like me.


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## OhioBurner© (Mar 13, 2015)

I've thought about this a lot and would love to have my next house built, and with efficiency and wood heating in mind. There are a lot of variables and choices out there though, not necessarily one best layout. For one, I would never design a house with an inefficient old smoke dragon in mind. If I were to build and pick a stove it would only be the biggest and most efficient ones around, like a BK, Woodstock, or other similar ones. I wouldn't mess with masonry at all. Seems costly, and a lot of labor and planning, and much harder to make changes or whatever later. And most times will involve extra elbows in the system and make cleaning difficult. They also seem like one giant radiator that passes through the living space through the roof to outside and can sink your heat right out into the sky. I'd rather have a nice black (or matching stove color) double walled insulated stainless steel going straight up. Most highly efficient stoves tend to have slightly cooler exhaust anyhow, and to work correctly they need good draft, so trying to recover a little bit of flue heat doesn't sound like a good idea. Could be why your dealing with lots of creosote. Don't masonry flues require a big air gap between the flue and masonry now? Might not look as nice but I think a black pipe looks right at home, and you can still make a nice stone hearth, even extended all the way to the roof (just not through the roof).

I would so love a log home, and have a few designs picked out already plus some modifications I'd do. Worried about poorer r-values, but they try and say even despite r-value ratings the air tightness and thermal mass can make them more efficient than modern codes for most of the US and even comparable in Alaska weather: http://www.hochstetlerloghomes.com/log_home_information.php?id=3 But I think they are embellishing a bit. So still might go either thicker or double studded wall. IDK. Would like to see some per finished sqft price comparisons also with heating values added in.

As with most I'd like a large house. And I don't want to discount the possibility of a larger family in the future. But still keeping it reasonable sized. I'm thinking a footprint of 32x32 or slightly smaller. Full 2 story with a simple single roof (not like most houses today with no fewer than a dozen different roof pitches and seams) and good standing seam metal roof. I'd also want a full insulated basement, preferably in a hillside to accommodate a walk out front, with large glass window and doors to get light down there too. Counting the basement though, 32x32 would be close to 3,000 sqft. Technically my current house is much larger, though only listed as 2400 since none of the basement is 'finished' and lots of sqft are lost with open great room on one side, and a half floor over one side of the house. Still, in a somewhat moderate climate with a nearly super-insulated and tight house, I think something like a King or maybe some of the 3cuft stoves could still keep up by themselves, but especially if I had backup heat from a pellet stove, or a cookstove in the kitchen, and aided by solar gain from ideally positioned windows, open floorplan, and oversized and open staircases. I'm still debating if I'd want the stove in the basement or main floor. Basement would probably be family room, so would probably see lots of use too, and if its walkout would be very convenient for wood. Then one of the nice looking pellet stoves could serve as backup on the main floor, and possibly a wood cookstove too. A square layout should be the most cost effective and energy efficient. Least amount of wall space if its square (so least cost to build plus less thermal leakage) and I think 2 story with a full basement would be nearly cube in shape so that should be ideal. I'd avoid 'doorways' between rooms, and make any opening fully open to the ceiling so they don't trap hot air above the door opening. I can't believe how my pellet stove with big 250cfm blower, position only 10' or so from the doorway to the other side of the house (pointed right at it) and still can be a 10º or more drop to the next room.


Building a new house though... lots more hoops to jump through especially with wood heat. I hear the banks won't allow it, and insurers either, often requiring a conventional form of heating with wood only as supplemental. If I was building, not sure exactly how I'd deal with that, perhaps some inexpensive electric baseboard heaters would be the easiest and cheapest, as long as they didn't stick out like a sore thumb (or maybe remove them later if they did).

The hardest part though, how does one afford to build a new house lol? I've heard its often difficult to impossible to get a loan for just a chunk of vacant land to build on. Maybe if your only buying an acre or two, but I want a place with enough land to harvest my own firewood, hunt, and have nice gardens and orchard. If I go very budget oriented and do a lot of work myself on the house, I think I could afford it easily enough. But I could barely do 5-10% down cash. I just don't have huge savings, and my current house is a money pit of repairs.


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## woodsmaster (Mar 28, 2015)

I didn't read the whole thread so hopefully I'm not repeating whats already been said. I would first of all make the house very efficient by extreme air sealing and insulation. Then I would install a boiler !! with a boiler you can design the house however you want and still have perfectly even heat threw the house or you can heat one room and not the other. I'd take it one further and get a gassifing boiler with storage and then you don't need to worry about cleaning the chimney. I haven't cleaned mine in three years and it's still fine. Id take that one step further and install it in a shed outside the house. Then your wood and splitting area can be right next to the boiler shed !! no moving wood long distances, no tracking dirt in the house, no smoke in the house, no risk of house fire from solid fuel appliance. I know this is going to cost a lot more than a wood burner, but you have to live with this forever so why not do it right and make it convenient and comfortable ?


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## DougA (Mar 28, 2015)

I have to agree with woodsmaster.  If I were doing it all over again, I'd go for a wood furnace hooked up to a duct system.  
Advantages:
You can add central air easily because you already have an air handler
You can add an air/heat exchanger/filtration for fresh air - same reason
You can switch to ground source or a heat pump if you get tired of cutting wood or new air regulations prohibit wood burning 
No wood smoke, smell or danger in the house
Less cutting, stacking and sorting wood since a furnace is much less picky about wood size and quality
You may have children in the future with asthma problems and a wood stove can be a big problem
MOST important - when you sell the house (and you will eventually) some people will not want to heat with wood and the conversion is easy to any of the above.

Too late for me to change but just my opinion


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## wardk (Mar 28, 2015)

DougA said:


> I have to agree with woodsmaster.  If I were doing it all over again, I'd go for a wood furnace hooked up to a duct system.
> Advantages:
> You can add central air easily because you already have an air handler
> You can add an air/heat exchanger/filtration for fresh air - same reason
> ...


I had a wood furnace it was a wood electric combo, it was okay but the installer went with the manufactures Btu output and sized it as if it were a gas unit. The problem is gas has a constant BTU output and wood does not , so I wood go a level or two higher in the BTU. I took out the furnace and went to a gassification boiler.


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## RustyShackleford (Jul 10, 2015)

I pretty much built my current house (25+ years now) after I'd been heating with wood for 10 years already, and knowing I'd want to continue doing so.   So I had wood-heating in mind.

Half the square-footage of the house is a "great room" (sort of combined living and dining room), with the kitchen attached and very open to it.   The stove sits along an interior wall of that room, against a hearth made of cinderblock filled with mortar; of course, there is a huge pier, which my builder called the sarcophagus, which supports this wall.   So the whole thing is quite massive, and absorbs the heat of the stove.   The effect is a bit like a Russian fireplace.   Oh, and the floors in this room are brick.

I also disagree with the assertion that the stove shouldn't be in a living space.    This great room is super warm and comfortable in the winter. I can distribute the heat around the house by running the HVAC in fan-only mode, but I rarely do so.   Especially after having encapsulated my crawlspace, the heat seems to distribute itself fairly well anyhow - I'm thinking the cinderblock wall and sarcophagus direct a lot of heat into the sealed crawlspace, where it heats the whole house.   Besides, I very much enjoy sleeping in a cold room (and supposedly it has health benefits).   There is also a loft above the great room, which of course gets very warm, but is perfect for non-sleeping activities that normally take place in one's bedroom.

Insurance companies here are quite comfortable with the notion of wood heat. I pay about $1000-1200 a year for $1000 deductible, on a 1600-1700 sq-ft house.   The nearest fire station is 6 miles away.


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## begreen (Jul 10, 2015)

The stove is an area heater. It should be where you want heat. Typically this is where folks congregate the most. I love that our stove is in the living room. It fits right in and sure is appreciated there in the winter. Often times the fire view is better than what's on the tv.


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## maple1 (Jul 13, 2015)

The more time I spend in houses with them, the more I am sold on mini-splits for heating (and a/c).

I really like my boiler & heating setup, for the house we're in. But if I was building new, I am pretty sure I would put a couple of mini-splits in, and design for a large central open space living room/kitchen/dining area that I could also put a good wood stove in to help with mid-winter heating needs.

I am actually getting so much sold on them that I am getting pretty sure that there is one in our future even with our nice boiler setup and not-so-open house design.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 13, 2015)

The mini splits might also help if you need some more load for your solar panels.


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