# Problems with new Jotul C550



## Woodstocker (Nov 27, 2011)

Hi All. 

I am new to this forum, and my username refers to where I live, not the type of stove that I have....just wanted to clarify that!

We installed a new Jotul C550 Rockland insert, and I'm not sure whether it's working properly or if I just have unrealistic expectations. We have a 2700sf raised ranch and the insert is downstairs in the family room that has a regular-sized doorway leading to the upstairs staircase. We explained to the company we bought it from that we wanted to keep the oil furnace at around 50 and get the main heat in the house from the insert. They told us that this unit would heat the whole house. Long story short, in addition to burning oil, we are also burning wood and the electricity to power the blower, so I'm not sure we're ahead. 

Everyone on the previous thread has complained about the snapstat on the blower and I'm no different. Last night I loaded the stove, the temp was up around 550 and the blower didn't go on, set to auto. It did turn on later, though. The room gets to be about 80 degrees maximum, but I don't understand why the box temp would be so high, and that the room temp would be so modestly warm. I don't think an 80-degree basement would send the heat upstairs enough to make much of a difference. Earlier this week we had a 40-degree day. The oil thermostat was set at 60 and with a mature, raging fire we could only get the upstairs temp to about 67, so I am not confident about performance on a 10-degree day. I am sure that I am going to have to cut registers into my hardwood floors or open up the staircase wall to allow heat to pass upstairs, but before I radically change the house I need to know if I will be more successful in heating the upstairs.

Despite having some really hot fires and the blower almost at full blast, we can't get that family room really hot.

 I have a friend with an old wood stove that gets incredibly hot on only 1 or 2 logs, and I'm burning up to 20 splits or more each day. He said that the other night his house was so hot they had to sleep without blankets. For full disclosure, he has a single-level house, but still....

I've had this insert now for about 2 months and don't know if I should return it for a wood stove. The dealer has already replaced the snapstat but that didn't help and he is calling Jotul tech support tomorrow. My theory is that the radiating heat from a free-standing stove will be greater than the heat from an insert with blower and that the heat will rise through the house more rapidly and hotter as well. 

Thoughts and comments gratefully appreciated.


----------



## kingquad (Nov 27, 2011)

Post a floor plan.  You'll get a lot more suggestions.  2700sqft is a stretch for any insert or freestanding stove unless you have a very open floor plan.  If this stove is in the basement, then another stove on the main floor sounds like your best option.  This is probably not what you want to hear though.  Sorry

Try using small fans on the floor blowing cool air toward the stove room.  The vacating cooler air will be replaced with warmer air.  Any registers cut into the floor should have fusible link dampers installed to comply with code and to keep your family safe.

Is your basement insulated?


----------



## DAKSY (Nov 27, 2011)

Question #1:
Did your installer block off the fire place chimney?
If not, you may be losing heat thru that opening.

Question 2: 
Have you tried adjusting the snap-disk so it's got good contact with the fire box?
It may NOT be in contact, which will cause it to take longer to actuate...


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Nov 28, 2011)

A couple of comments, I have the same insert.  One is that the snap-disk does take 1/2 hour to engage and you should  push the ash to the back of the stove before lighting.  Alot of ash will delay the auto feature from working, but it will work.  I originally thought I had the same problem.

I guess you have not heard that wood stoves are space heaters, that is what they are.  On a house your size I doubt it will heat the entire area.  I have 3,200 square feet and it will definetly not heat the entire area.  I do believe regular stoves (not inserts) do heat better because they put out radiant heat as well as a blower.  The fans really do not draw much electric though.

I would give alot of thought to cutting in registers as that is now considered a fire hazard.  But I understand your desire.  Pushing cold air down the stairs would be better as hot air rises naturally and cold air is easier to push.


----------



## Woodstocker (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. 

I maybe wrote the wrong thing.  I don't expect the Jotul to heat my whole house, but it is not even heating the 500 sf room it is in. It has to be blazing to get heat from the blower, and you'd think that room would get pretty warm.

The fire itself only lasts a few hours, never overnight, even packed as much as possible. The dealer told us it would burn all night and heat the whole house. He has replaced the sensor but that hasn't made a difference. So we have a real problem. He offered to change it out for a woodstove, but at a cost of an extra $800 including new piping, labor and tax.  We already have so much money into this, we really want it to work. Additionally, how often do you have to empty the ashes?  It seems full of ashes every 2 days. Thanks for any input.


----------



## jotulguy (Nov 29, 2011)

Do you have an Ir gun or a magnetic thermometer? Where was the 550 degree reading taken from? The snap disk in that unit is not designed to make contact with the base of the insert. You will need it to reach a temp of 110 if memory serves me correctly. If you have an exterior chimney it could take up to an hour to reach that temp in the base of the insert.  As far as your overnight burn...... you will never have flames after 8 hours but it should be able to rekindle the fire without the use of a match or a fire starter. What kind of wood are you using? How tall is your chimney?


----------



## jatoxico (Nov 29, 2011)

Hey Woodstocker. I also have the Jotul 550 and am pretty happy. You threw out quite a few questions there and there are also many variables starting with the quality of the wood and stove operation but I'll try and give you couple thoughts;

1) No way around it, IMO free standing stoves are better heaters but inserts can be quite effective and you should be able to be more comfortable and still minimize you oil use.
2) Sounds like you have a door leading to the upstairs, if so the door header will trap huge amounts of heat and will not let it readily pass upstairs. You stated the room the insert is in has gotten to 80, that's pretty hot no?
3) As another poster suggested, place a box fan on lowest setting blowing cool air into the room with the insert.

Questions for you. How are you measuring stove temp?

What kind of wood?

My guess is with some tweaking to your technique you will get closer to what you are looking for.

Edit I do not have to clean ashes often at all, not burning 24/7 but not even close to once a week. The fact that you find you need to clean ash makes me wonder if your wood is not burning down completely which could indicate it is too wet.


----------



## Woodstocker (Nov 29, 2011)

jotulguy, I'm using a Jotul magnetic thermometer that the dealer left me. It's at the front-left of the top port. 

We do have an exterior chimney that does not have an air intake. It's probably about 20-25 feet long. I'm not sure what kind of wood it is, and I can't be sure it's fully seasoned, but it's not green. We just got the house earlier this year so we have not had a chance to season it outside for very long. I would not expect this insert to keep the fire going for 8 hours, but I'd be happy with extracting some heat after 6. Right now I am able to get the fire going pretty easily with the residual coals. 

I'm willing to put in the time to learn how to make a good burn but can't figure out how to extract more heat from a 550-degree fire.


----------



## Woodstocker (Nov 29, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> Hey Woodstocker. I also have the Jotul 550 and am pretty happy. You threw out quite a few questions there and there are also many variables starting with the quality of the wood and stove operation but I'll try and give you couple thoughts;
> 
> 1) No way around it, IMO free standing stoves are better heaters but inserts can be quite effective and you should be able to be more comfortable and still minimize you oil use.
> 2) Sounds like you have a door leading to the upstairs, if so the door header will trap huge amounts of heat and will not let it readily pass upstairs. You stated the room the insert is in has gotten to 80, that's pretty hot no?
> ...



I'm ready to open up that wall between the family room and the staircase, for aesthetics as well as to maximize the heat transfer. That would remove the header and allow a lot of heat upstairs. The wife is not fully ready for that yet, LOL. 

But I'll repeat what I said previously, I guess I don't understand how a 550-degree fire doesn't heat that room to 90 or above. One would think that the efficiency in that regard would be greater.


----------



## jatoxico (Nov 29, 2011)

Woodstocker said:
			
		

> jatoxico said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well there's 550 and there's 550. What I mean is, when I'm on a good run the stove will exceed 550 and get towards 650 then slowly drop and and cruise at 550-500 or so for a couple hours. Getting the stove fully hot puts out good heat (though I probably have not yet maxed out on heat output due to the warmer temps). I really have not found a need to run fan full out. If your max temp is 550 with the blower cranking I would say back off the blower and let the box get a little hotter. Can get the same heat from high temp low volume of as air as you can from high volume air at lower temp. The difference is the stove will run better and burn cleaner if it runs a bit hotter.

At hotter temps you can be sure your secondaries are operating, maximizing available BTU's in your wood. You should also back the air down. I find that shutting down the air to at least 1/2 closed increases stove temps once the fire is rolling. When air is full open too much heat goes up the flue and the secondaries really don't have time to function. The caveat is you cannot shut air down too early, wait till you have things rolling.

The reason you're not getting to 90 (why you want to is another question) is of course you are spilling some hot air to the upstairs but is any part of the lower half of house below grade?


----------



## OhioBurner© (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm in a similar situation. I have the same size house, about 2700 if memory serves 2-story (not including basement). Was hoping the insert might heat most of the house, especially on warmer days, but thats a stretch. it struggles just to heat up that side of the house (its an addition). Its been in the 40's lately and burning good on the 550 solo will barely keep the house to temp. The room its in is a large great room and never gets much over 70. Upstairs mbr gets a few degrees warmer, low to mid 70s. The other side of the house about 10 less, or 60ish. Now thats pretty good for now, but again this is in the 40's out and running the stove between 500-700. The stove looks great but I think a freestanding one would have heated better. I'm still on the fence whether I want to buy a freestanding one to replace it, but no money now and we just put in a new stove on the other side of house so going to see how the combo works this year. I didnt want to have to rebuild the hearth, and the 550 was the biggest insert we could fit in the existing fireplace & hearth. 

A couple other things, more toward the center divider in the top slot is usually hottest. Ashes, well that depends alot on the wood, they do seem to pile up quick but if I dont clean it out after two days it seems like they burn down more or something and dont build up much higher. I'd say I typically clean out once a week maybe. Snapstat, well I dont bother using it much anymore just run the thing full on once its over 300 or so. Burn time? I can usually re-lite with small splits & some kindling after 8hrs. With a full firebox usable heat maybe to around 6hrs or so. 

Just my $0.02


----------



## woodmiser (Nov 29, 2011)

The other thing is spot heating and full time heating. Once you get into full time heating, the room objects, walls and floors will begin to warm. That will help alot. If you never get the mass warm, you will always be struggling to heat. Not sure if you're doing it yet but try keeping that thing burning 24/7 to get the room mass warmed. That will give the stove it's required extra help.


----------



## stejus (Nov 29, 2011)

woodmiser said:
			
		

> The other thing is spot heating and full time heating. Once you get into full time heating, the room objects, walls and floors will begin to warm. That will help alot. If you never get the mass warm, you will always be struggling to heat. Not sure if you're doing it yet but try keeping that thing burning 24/7 to get the room mass warmed. That will give the stove it's required extra help.



+1... Cold is the absence of Heat. Cold objects in the room absorb heat leaving no warmth in the air. Once it levels out, now you're adding heat.

Also, I didn't see a response to the block off/insulation where the liner passes the fireplace damper/smokeshelf. This makes a huge difference with inserts. 

I would also suggest running the blower on low vs high. When you are pushing the air over the stove on high, you will cool it down faster than it being set on low.


----------



## EJL923 (Nov 29, 2011)

As others have said, check out the bottom block off/insulation situation.

I hate to tell you, but your dealer gave bad advice about the heating capacity of the stove.  It is only rated for 1800 sq ft.  And take Jotuls or any other mfr's ratings as a guide, because they usually rate them in open floor plans with perfect insulation.  I have the same stove, and my house is a 2400 sq ft cape.  It keeps the downstairs warm, but the upstairs about 63 in the dead of winter.  The burn times are what they are.  The rockland is more of a beauty than a solid heater.  It is made for looks, with the flush face and ability to take 24" logs, but only e/w.  The E/W loading of stoves, in particular, flush face inserts, limits the amount of wood that can be loaded.  A n/s load can be stuffed more easily.  I also load my stove every 3-4 hrs in peak heating season, but take into account how much wood you are putting in.  My first season i had the worst buyers remorse because i thought i was going through tons of wood.  at the end of the season, i burned 4.5 cords and 100 gallons of oil, a victory in my book when heating a 2400 sq ft house.  Would i like a longer burning insert, yes, but i live with it and dont spend $3000 worth of oil


----------



## golfandwoodnut (Nov 29, 2011)

A couple of other comments.  When you said the thermostat is in the top left, do you mean inside the vent where the heat comes out?  The best placement is inside the opening, laying down, in the center.  You may be getting your stove really hot if not in that location and that would contribute to short burns.  The wood does make a big difference.  I find cherry, soft maple etc. burn really fast, like less than 4 hours.  WIth Oak and Locust I can get extended burns (burns are coals too, don't expect to always see flames,  I am learning to wait longer between reloads until the coals are burned down to about 300 degrees).  Here is part of the secret, rake the coals to the front (many of us have built little rakes) and place a large split or round in the back with no coals under it.  Put the other splits in the front and on top.  The key is it takes longer for the back split to catch and you will get extended burn times.

As far as the ash, I push my ashes to the back (again with the rake) on a cold start.  Even if I am burning 24/7 I can easily get a week before I have to dig out the ashes.  I always like to leave some ashes as it helps the fire.  On a relight, push ashes back and any unused coals forward, this helps kick in the auto fan start and helps getting the fire going.  Remember it takes 1/2 hour before kicking on, longer on a slow start.  If it comes on after you have the fan on and put it back to auto, that means it is working in my book, I had the same feelings as you that it was not working but it always comes on for me now that I am patient.

I did not have a block off plate installed either.  This year I bought Rock Wool and shoved it all around up in the damper area.  It has already made a big difference (getting the surround off and on is the hardest part).  I have also been leaving my fan on very low and it is much more enjoyable to watch TV.  Not sure if I will turn it up in the winter.  It will produce alot of heat, but as I said it is a space heater.  80 does sound pretty good in the basement and the heat has to be moving upstairs.


----------



## SteveKG (Nov 29, 2011)

Just curious, have you tried blocking off the doorway to the upstairs to see how much the stove will heat that downstairs room it's in? If not, you might try it as a starting point. Just to see what happens. If there's no door there, just an open doorway, even draping a blanket over it will work, as I've done that myself.


----------



## Woodstocker (Nov 30, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> A couple of other comments.  When you said the thermostat is in the top left, do you mean inside the vent where the heat comes out?  The best placement is inside the opening, laying down, in the center.  You may be getting your stove really hot if not in that location and that would contribute to short burns.  The wood does make a big difference.  I find cherry, soft maple etc. burn really fast, like less than 4 hours.  WIth Oak and Locust I can get extended burns (burns are coals too, don't expect to always see flames,  I am learning to wait longer between reloads until the coals are burned down to about 300 degrees).  Here is part of the secret, rake the coals to the front (many of us have built little rakes) and place a large split or round in the back with no coals under it.  Put the other splits in the front and on top.  The key is it takes longer for the back split to catch and you will get extended burn times.
> 
> As far as the ash, I push my ashes to the back (again with the rake) on a cold start.  Even if I am burning 24/7 I can easily get a week before I have to dig out the ashes.  I always like to leave some ashes as it helps the fire.  On a relight, push ashes back and any unused coals forward, this helps kick in the auto fan start and helps getting the fire going.  Remember it takes 1/2 hour before kicking on, longer on a slow start.  If it comes on after you have the fan on and put it back to auto, that means it is working in my book, I had the same feelings as you that it was not working but it always comes on for me now that I am patient.
> 
> I did not have a block off plate installed either.  This year I bought Rock Wool and shoved it all around up in the damper area.  It has already made a big difference (getting the surround off and on is the hardest part).  I have also been leaving my fan on very low and it is much more enjoyable to watch TV.  Not sure if I will turn it up in the winter.  It will produce alot of heat, but as I said it is a space heater.  80 does sound pretty good in the basement and the heat has to be moving upstairs.



Yes, the thermometer is inside the vent where the heat comes out, on the left side of that vent. And I checked with my dealer today and he said that they installed ceramic insulation to pack off the damper area around the liner after the pipe was secured at the top. I hope this was the right approach.


----------



## Woodstocker (Nov 30, 2011)

jatoxico said:
			
		

> Woodstocker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those are some great suggestions. The reason I want the room so hot is simply to be able to get more of that heat upstairs.

Also, can someone please define what "secondaries" are?


----------



## wkpoor (Nov 30, 2011)

Burning 24/7 is a must if there be any hope at all of that insert adding heat to the house. And from my experience of heating from a basement it can take up to a week before things really get going. It takes alot of heat and time to warm the structure and possibly the ground around your house enough to at least slow the heat sink affect. I'm heating 2800sqft of space on 3 floors (open plan) pretty good on all but the coldest days. 40 degree day and I'm idling the stove or it would be too hot on the 3rd floor. So it can be done, not sure how well with an insert though. You should be able to at least make that room and more pretty darn comfortable. As for adding open registers or additional area for heat to rise don't waste your time unless it be a BIG hole. I've experimented for yrs and I'm convinced the convection currents won't move through small spaces. Under the most ideal condition expect 5-10 degrees difference from floor to floor unless maybe your really well insulated. I'm sure most people would say overheating one area to heat another isn't the best plan even though thats what many of us do in your situation.
Secondary burn is the burning of the smoke gases coming off the fuel before it leaves the appliance. It looks like bluish clouds dancing around the top of the firebox or may look like fire jets coming from the holes in the secondary tubes. Good secondary burn is what makes for a smoke free chimney, make your wood last longer, and get more heat from the wood over a longer period of time.


----------



## MasterMech (Nov 30, 2011)

Just a thought here but are you running your primary air wide open in an attempt to get the hottest fire possible?  If so, try backing off to 1/2 or less.  My Rangeley (Freestanding stove) will "stall"  at about 400-500 (depends on the wood) on the stove top with the primary wide open.  Backing it off to 1/2 produces a calmer fire with better secondary combustion and the stove top temp will immediately start rising again.

Running the primary wide open also eats the wood a lot faster too but most of your heat goes up the chimney.


----------



## cp20855 (Nov 19, 2012)

Hello,
We also bought Jotul Rockland 550 in November 2011. After much frustration and many complaints about "automatic" blower, after 1 year and 3 days, the Jotul regional guy came out and after brief inspection told us that the *blower was wired incorrectly at the factory*. 

He rewired it, and the automatic blower did seem to work properly for a few days, but last night auto blower went off during a nice fire, so we switched back to manual (which did work).

Now I have cleaned out the ashes and rebuilt a fire. Again, automatic does not come on, manual works fine.

I hope it will not take another year to get the regional guy back out here. Meanwhile, what do you forum folks think about the helpfulness of blower? The regional guy suggested we keep blower on low, said that the higher speed makes more noise so people think it is working better but really that doesn't help distribute heat.

We are very disappointed with the amount of heat that we have been able to get from this product. All suggestions welcome!

CP


----------



## jotulguy (Nov 19, 2012)

Cp when you say "nice fire" what temp are you reading? Do you have a stove thermometer? Also where is your air control set? Are you burninga  full firebox of wood or one or two pieces at a time?


----------



## rideau (Nov 20, 2012)

Of these suggestions, definitely one I'd employ first would be to put a small fan at the top of the stairs pointing down into the basement, hopefully at an angle where it is directed at the door to the family room.  After a few hours it should have pushed enough colder air down to displace enough warmer air up to have increased the temperature of your main floor by 4-5 degrees,  If you can keep rotating upstairs cooler air down into the family room, and wamer air upstairs, you should be able to keep the first floor within 5-10 degrees of the family room fairly easily after 24 hours or so, especially if you can keep that family room in the high seventies.  The moving air will gently take heat off the insert without significantly cooling it.  A freestanding stove would definitely be more effective, and more appropriate for the heating you are trying to do.  Among other things, a much larger surface area is available for the transfer of heat. 
You definitely don't want to set a goal of getting that family room to 90.  You want the heat going out of that room and rising.  You have a lot of cubic feet of air to heat.  If you can keep the stove running 24./7 and keep the family room a comfortable 72-76, and move at least that 4 to 8 degrees of 80 degree heat you have in the basement upstairs, you'd be more comfortable everywhere in the home. 

And, before I took out the walls in the basement, I'd try putting a vent in over the door so air isn't trapped there.  An overhead fan in the family room, pushing air down, would also help to keep the warm air at a level where is was available for circulation into the home. 
Be aware a fan may make things feel coler and less comfortable for the first few hours, but stick with it. 
For example, the other day I brought some wood in that had gotten wet on the surface in a blowing rain storm.  Put the stand-type summer fan on low, blowing toward the wood.  Happens to be in a location where it is in the closed end of the room away from my Woodstock Progress Hybrid.  The wind was blowing on the wood and o n me, and incidentally past the front of the window where a lot of the stove's heat is radiated, and I was chilleed.  Kept thinking I had to turn the fan off, but was too busy to do so.  Suddenly realized, about two hours later when doing something else in the room, the air being blown on me was warm.  Went upstairs to check the fridge thermometer I have on a bookcase at the top of the second floor landing, and found the floor was several degrees warmer than it had been with only a small fan pointing down the stairs.  Anything you can do to actively move air SLOWLY will serve to distribute heat and even out your home temps.  DO NOT AIM TO KEEP THE BASEMENT ROOM OVERLY WARM>


----------



## cp20855 (Nov 20, 2012)

jotulguy said:


> Cp when you say "nice fire" what temp are you reading? Do you have a stove thermometer? Also where is your air control set? Are you burninga full firebox of wood or one or two pieces at a time?


Hello over there jotulguy --

For me, nice fire is when the room is about 70ish and I can see the flames. Yes, I have stove thermometer (one of those round ones; it is in the slot where the hot air comes out, just above the control). I also have IR thermometer.

When the fire temp (IR) at the GLASS reads around 500, the temp (IR) at the blower switch is usually around 120. The temp on the round thermometer could be 300-500, but the IR temp reading in the same spot is more likely around 200.

Starting this morning, I will keep track of temps and times we refill, etc.

After the initial fire gets some coals, we push ashes back, rack coals to doghouse, then stuff the unit as full of wood as we can -- maybe 6-8 pieces of wood.

Clearly getting this going properly is a learning curve. We think we are doing a lot better after the jotul tech visited (was it you?), fixed wiring, demo'd building fire.  Now we have the fire going for about 6 hours before needing to refill. 

What do you think about the discrepancy between round thermometer and IR readings? Anything else we should do?

Thanks for your interest and help!

Cheers,
CP


----------



## cp20855 (Nov 21, 2012)

THANK YOU to Jotul tech and everyone else who has offered advice. Yesterday's fire and auto fan worked well. (We have let it go out since weather is warming up.)

The only issue last night was that after all the other logs were embers, one intact log was smoldering away in the back of the fire box, needed to be moved to front of box. Wondering why -- too many ashes in back of box? Other ideas?

Thanks again everyone,
CP


----------



## rideau (Nov 21, 2012)

THat's what is supposed to happen- extends your burn time, slows the fire down.  If you had left it there it would have probably gone a few more hours.  To get more heat out of it and have it burn faster you could have opened the air.  Moving to the front as you did also works.


----------



## jnorthway (Nov 23, 2012)

I just installed a 550.
Running through the "break in" fires now.
I too noticed that even though the top of the insert was running about 300 degrees, the auto fan didn't go on. It seemed to me it was certainly hot enough to come on.
I'll try moving the coals to the front of the firebox as suggested by others here and see how that works out.

Other than that, I'm pretty stoked (shameless pun) to finally own a Jotul!


----------



## cottonwoodsteve (Nov 24, 2012)

The key word here is INSERT. There have been other people saying "where is the heat" with inserts after having or comparing to free standing stoves.
We have a free standing wood stove and an fireplace wood insert. The free standing wood stove puts out easily more than twice the heat for the same amount of wood.
Is an insert much better than a standard fireplace? Yes, but compared to a free standing wood stove, the wood stove is much better
Chimneys almost identical height, same wood , same operator.
My opinions;
The whiney insert blower doesn't move as much air as normal convection around a freestanding stove.
The air from the insert vent is relatively low volume and so hot it goes straight to the ceiling. We have to use a fan on the side to help deflect and distribute it.
The free standing stove has stove pipe to radiate heat into room. Each 2 foot 6 inch diameter section is about 24 x 19 inches of surface area. Basically 3 sections of pipe is almost the same area as the radiating areas of fire box. All insert heat goes up and out the enclosed insulated chimney pipe and warms your neighborhood but not your house.
We warm our living room with a stove two rooms away, because the living room insert fan is too annoying and it just doesn't  put out the heat.


----------



## 12pack (Nov 25, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jotul-c550-rockland-tips-thread.21774/

take a look here also


----------



## Stone1061 (Dec 6, 2012)

Having used the Jotul Rockland 550 for a year I have concluded insert stoves are a joke and the Jotul Rockland is a huge waste of money. Like an earlier post said, all the heat goes up the chimney to heat your neighborhood but does little to heat your house. Unless you run the fan full blast there is little or no heat eminating from this stove. Because the insert is insulated, you don't even heat up the chimney!! Think about it, without the fan riunning full blast this stove is a joke. When the fan is running at any meaningful speed it sounds as if you have a jet engine running in your house. Also, when you might need it most during a power outage, oops, no fan, and your house is still freezing even though you spend thousands on this joke of a high end stove. Do not by this stove, it might look pretty in your living room, but that's all it's good for, looking pretty.... oh, and that's only after you clean the glass after every burn. It takes the absolutely driest wood to get the stove hot enought to even get the fan to turn on automatically. To turn the fan on manually you need to find a child with tiny fingers to get to the switch which is behind the narrow bottom vent grate.  Do not buy an insert stove and do everything you can to somehow  fit a free standing stove in the space you have. A free standing stove will radiate lots of heat without fans, noise, and consuming electricity.
To summarize: The Jotul 550 costs too much, radiates little heat, requires electricity, and is very loud with the fan running. This stove stinks.


----------



## jnorthway (Dec 7, 2012)

Stone1061 said:


> To summarize: The Jotul 550 costs too much, radiates little heat, requires electricity, and is very loud with the fan running. This stove stinks.


 

Whoa! Tell us how you really feel!

Some of us simply don't have the room for a full stove. This will be the 5th year we have heated our house 100% with a wood insert. I run it 24/7. Is it as good as a stove? Nope, but it works quite well for us. Our house is a 2000 Sq. Foot single level with an interior chimney and an open floor plan.

Cottonwoods post above sums it up pretty well, and I agree. If I could fit a full size stove I would do it, but the reality is that I can't easily do that.

COST - Personally, I think all stoves/inserts cost too much! Our first insert was a used Vermont Castings Winterwarm Cat insert. After 4 years with that we needed to upgrade and dropped $3000.00 on the Jotul. It hurt a little to do that, but we had proved we could heat our home comfortably with wood. Since we only spend about $375.00 a year on fuel (1 ton of Envi blocks, and gas cost to gather and prep wood), it made sense for us.
RADIATING HEAT - Inserts don't radiate as much heat as a stove. But I did find out (quite by accident) with the Jotul that if the surround is off it radiates heat out into the room BETTER than the fan does. If the power goes out, the surround is coming off and we'll be just fine.

FAN NOISE - It is loud on high, we run it about 3/4 speed.

The Jotul is not perfect, but so far it appears to be a well made consistent burner. It is an appropriate for our needs, because it fits our house.... And we like the way ours smells....


----------



## Mitch Newton (Dec 7, 2012)

kingquad said:


> Post a floor plan. You'll get a lot more suggestions. 2700sqft is a stretch for any insert or freestanding stove unless you have a very open floor plan. If this stove is in the basement, then another stove on the main floor sounds like your best option. This is probably not what you want to hear though. Sorry
> 
> Try using small fans on the floor blowing cool air toward the stove room. The vacating cooler air will be replaced with warmer air. Any registers cut into the floor should have fusible link dampers installed to comply with code and to keep your family safe.
> 
> Is your basement insulated?


 
What is a "Fusible Link Damper"?


----------



## Stone1061 (Dec 7, 2012)

Ok, maybe the inserts that require electricity to produce any heat aren't a complete joke, they do look pretty and if you don't mind the constant drone of a jet engine in your living room, they do throw more heat an the old Heatalator system like the one my house came with. Oh, I forgot to mention, the heat sensor on the auatomatic fan seting is obviously set way too high since it doesn't turn the fan on until the stove has been burning blazing hot for hours, and even then possibly not. We have had the sensor replaced twice thinking there was something wrong, but apparently it's designed that wa (don't forget you need tiny thin fingers to even get to the switch... what were they thinking when they designed this thing?). So typically we are forced to leave the fan on in the manual position and we wake up in the morning to the roar of the fan in the living room and a stove blowing cold air because the realistic hot burn time for this stove is no more than maybe 5-6 hours, with luck.  Yes some folks can only fit an insert, but recognize it's a big compromise.


----------



## jotulguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Stone.... the sensor is a normally open switch that comes on at a temp of 110 degrees..... any thing lower then that and in the summer with the sun shining on it through a window would turn it on. May I ask what state you live in? And who is your dealer that you purchased the stove from?


----------



## jnorthway (Dec 7, 2012)

Stone,

While I completely agree that a stove is greater than insert, I think you've got a few things going on that are making your experience less than optimal.

I am far from an expert on wood burning and I am new to the C550 (only been running it since Thanksgiving day). The purpose of forums like this are to help others, so that is what I'll try to do by offering some observations\suggestions.

I agree on the front grill design. It's ridiculous that they buried the rocker switch under the grill like that. They could have at least made it line up better! Ideally they should have omitted a slot or two and that would have addressed the issue.

Initially my experience with the temp sensor\snapstat was not what I expected either. But  I made minor adjustment to my method. When I bring the stove back up in the AM, I pull a little pile of the hot coals to the front of the fire pan. This keeps the heat on the snapstat much more consistently and trips the snapstat on within 1\2 hour of lighting the stove. And some mornings the fan is still running!

Burn times are very subjective. I would say I can legitimately get 6-7 hours consistently. Sometimes I get 8 hours, but not consistently. The only burn time that matters to me is that I have a substantial bed of coals in the AM to bring the stove back up without a fire starter. I find this stove to be very consistent in that I always have a significant amount of glowing coals that I can use for this purpose. My general burn temp range is 350-700 degrees.

Questions:
What are burning for fuel?
How big your house and what is the layout?


My suggestion, if you have not done it yet, is to read the ENTIRE (15 pages and growing!) "Jotul C550 tip and tricks" thread. It is linked above in 12packs post. I learned a LOT about my insert in the hour or two it took to read that thread and some others that were referenced by that link.

It put me much further up on the curve than I would be right now. I highly recommend it.
It took me at least 1 season to get tuned in to my old insert. I already feel more in tune with the Jotul (because of this site) and I've only owned it for 3 weeks!

Jon


----------



## kingquad (Dec 7, 2012)

Mitch Newton said:


> What is a "Fusible Link Damper"?


Fancy name for a fire damper.  The Link that holds it open melts at a certain temp. and the door closes.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 7, 2012)

Stone1061 said:


> *oh, and that's only after you clean the glass after every burn*. It takes the absolutely driest wood to get the stove hot enought to even get the fan to turn on automatically. To turn the fan on manually *you need to find a child with tiny fingers to get to the switch *which is behind the narrow bottom vent grate.
> 
> Stone1061,
> Yesterday at 10:47 PM
> ...


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

I bought this unit in December as a replacement of a much older insert that I had been using to heat my 1100sqft ranch home.   The reason to replace was the fans on the older unit were going bad and couldn't find replacement parts, as well as the pros that look after my chimney said I would burn at least half or less as much wood with a newer insert and get the same amount of heat than with my old one.  This is my sixth year heating my house full time with wood, and have heated with wood stoves, etc. when I have lived in other parts of the Northern climes of this  Country.  

After doing some quick research, and also have past experience with Jotul, I jumped at the opportunity to be able to purchase one of this product.  What a HUGE mistake!  And it has become an incredible waste of money, personal energy, time.  This is the top worst purchasing experiences of a large item I have had.  My house is consistently between 5-10 degrees colder...old insert kept my place at a very comfortable 72-78, and now I feel fortunate that I can get up too 68 and maintain it.  Usually this unit keeps my house between 64-68.  The insert itself gets very very hot, but the output to the rest of the house is minimal and just moving from the room where the fire is to the next room, which is a full open passage, is noticeable.  

The wood I use is dry, and after having the sales rep check it out with a moisture meter, and blaming moisture content on the lack of heat, I now make sure and have taken steps to ensure the moisture in my wood being burned is between 5-15%, and certainly no more than 20%.  There initially was a problem with the installer and how he messed up the stack height, but that has been resolved, which was an incredible pain and hassle.  I read through all 16+ pages of the suggested thread in an earlier post on how to maximize the heat output of this model, and that has helped a bit.

But overall, this unit just rots, and my experience has been that I made a $3500-$4000 mistake that cannot be rectified.  I have to agree with Stone 1061.  And also have to learn to live with this substandard wood burning insert.  What a waste...


----------



## AppalachianStan (Feb 24, 2013)

It would be nice to see someone who know how to run these EPA stove come by and shows how to use the stove at it best and look at  the setup to make sure it is right. Just saying.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

And another thing that really irks me about this experience with this Jotul and the local company I bought it from...the customer service stinks so bad!  The salesman along with the factory rep was supposed to come out and check out what was going on back in early January.  The factory rep cancelled twice in three days, at my inconvenience of leaving work right away to meet up with them.  When I called Jotul NA and spoke with a gal on the phone, telling her what was going on, she put me through to the voicemail of the factory representative who is in my area.  He NEVER called back!  And there has been and is very very poor customer service from the local company to assist in addressing the issues with this insert.  Again, I really have nothing good to say about this insert and the experience.


----------



## jnorthway (Feb 24, 2013)

A2,

Sorry you're having such a rough go with your insert. Something has got to be wrong with your setup if you can't heat a house of that size with a 550. What was your old unit? I had a Vermont Castings Insert that projected out from the fireplace, so it had a lot more iron "in the room" radiating heat as well as the fan. We used it for several years until we added a large edition to the house and the beat up old VC could not keep up with heating roughly 1500 sq feet.

I got a lot of excellent info from the tips and tricks thread. There was also a link somewhere in that thread where someone details their best method for starting a fire, and more importantly what they did to keep it running well and load it up for the night time burn. His ideas helped me learn this stove real quick and I've been very happy with heat output I get.

Our wood isn't perfectly seasoned and dry, so I use 2 Envi blocks to build a platform (with approx 12-16 inches in between them) for my splits every AM. We run it all day like that.
Around 10:00PM I rake all the hot coals forward, I throw a nice big split into the hollow in the back and then load it up for the night. I have never had a night that I didn't have a nice bed of coals waiting for me in the AM.

I did end up insulating around the stove pipe with a layer of Roxul, and that really forced the heat to the surround so it radiates quite a bit of heat on it's own. It also got the chimney nice and warm!
Most mornings the chimney is still radiating a ton of heat into the room.

I'd also suggest that you look at whatever convection patterns you have in your house since the new stove. They're probably different than your old stove's patterns. I've always used 1 small 6" fan to move air around, but with the new insert I had to move it a few feet and it made a big difference.

Lastly, this site is full of really knowledgeable, helpful people. Post up some more info about your situation, keep an open mind and maybe they can help you get better results.

Jon




A2Woodburner said:


> I bought this unit in December as a replacement of a much older insert that I had been using to heat my 1100sqft ranch home. The reason to replace was the fans on the older unit were going bad and couldn't find replacement parts, as well as the pros that look after my chimney said I would burn at least half or less as much wood with a newer insert and get the same amount of heat than with my old one. This is my sixth year heating my house full time with wood, and have heated with wood stoves, etc. when I have lived in other parts of the Northern climes of this Country.
> 
> After doing some quick research, and also have past experience with Jotul, I jumped at the opportunity to be able to purchase one of this product. What a HUGE mistake! And it has become an incredible waste of money, personal energy, time. This is the top worst purchasing experiences of a large item I have had. My house is consistently between 5-10 degrees colder...old insert kept my place at a very comfortable 72-78, and now I feel fortunate that I can get up too 68 and maintain it. Usually this unit keeps my house between 64-68. The insert itself gets very very hot, but the output to the rest of the house is minimal and just moving from the room where the fire is to the next room, which is a full open passage, is noticeable.
> 
> ...


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

jnorthway said:


> A2,
> 
> Sorry you're having such a rough go with your insert. Something has got to be wrong with your setup if you can't heat a house of that size with a 550. What was your old unit? I had a Vermont Castings Insert that projected out from the fireplace, so it had a lot more iron "in the room" radiating heat as well as the fan. We used it for several years until we added a large edition to the house and the beat up old VC could not keep up with heating roughly 1500 sq feet.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the support, Jon.  Had I come across this thread before making the purchase, there is no way I would have bought this unit.

My old insert was fit very snug into my fireplace opening, and very little of it stuck out into the room.  It may have been a Vermont Castings, but since it was so old, it was hard to tell.  Over the years of use, I/we did many upgrades including an insulating blanket around the stove pipe which was the final step in making it such a great unit for me, overall.  I was chucking a lot of wood into it's massive firebox though.  The is the one and ONLY good thing about this Jotul Rockland 550...I am burning way so much less wood than I could ever really even imagine.  

From what the installer (toolshed of a guy), and salesman (indifferent to say the least) have checked out, all is set up properly now.  I should say I am not new to heating with wood.  I have heated over the years in different locations for about the equivalent of 15 years or so.  I am having no problem starting the fire, and getting the unit extremely hot over the course of an hour.  I do stoke it with a "V" pattern on the bottom after raking the coals to the sides and from the back of the unit.  Then I put a reverse "V" on top of the initial restarter kindling/wood.  If need be, I use a couple of sticks of fatwood to help start everything back up.  Then I lay one or two larger pieces (3-5 inch splits) across the "V" and continue to build from there as everything heats up and burns hot.  I keep the door propped open just a tad, and then when it is too hot to the touch, or I know it is all heated up, I close the door, but keep the damper all the way open for a while longer, like up to an hour, and keep adding fuel.  

I chock it as full as I can for the night and dampen it down to about 1/4 or so shut, and at times, all the way shut.  When I wake up about 5 AM, there is a nice bed of coals, and I start it back up for the day since I leave around 6 AM for work.  It should be noted that even though my brick and the unit is warm to the touch when I wake up and check it out in the morning, my house is usually in the high 50s, from being in the mid to high 60s before going to bed.  It heats the house fairly quickly to a couple or four degrees warmer within an hour, but to get any type of real heat out of it, there is no way.  I am not retired and don't have another to check out the fire throughout the day while I am at work.  

I do get home somewhere between 4-6 PM so I understand and have no problem with me coming home to a cold house (56-58 degrees) at the end of the day.  My main complaint is that it never really warms my house back up again as my old insert did.  In fact, I would have to sometimes throw the covers off in the back bedroom where I sleep because it got nice and toasty in my house overnight.  There are sometimes in the middle of the night when it does feel as if my house is nice and warm, something one can just sense, and there is good heat output, but whenever I get up and check it out, all is about the same, and I add some more fuel to the fire.  

All external floor fans have served to do with this insert is make my house colder.  I have ceiling fans that I have used for all the years I am burning 24/7 with this set up, and at times, a floor fan in different places to help direct the air into the other parts of my house.  I have even pointed the floor fan at the insert from the adjoining room to force the cold air from the floor into the unit so that more air can be warmed up and recirculated.  Again, all this really serves to do is make everything colder.  

So hindsight is 20/20 and in retrospect, I should have just searched around and found some sort of replacement fans for my old insert, like the friend I sold it too did, and gone about my business.  I do find this forum and the people who post up on it very very helpful, and have given me ideas and tricks to try in order to maximize the little this thing has to offer and failed to deliver.  Keep the ideas coming, and I will keep researching it out and tweaking.  I will probably invest in a stove pipe insulating blanket again after this burning season is over.  Thanks again! Jon...


P.S.  One flaw that I forgot to put out there and ask is that there is a three inch gap at the bottom of this unit from each side of my fireplace box walls.  Even with my continued prodding about maybe this one is too small and they mismeasured or misordered or misdelivered, they tell me that all is OK and this spacing doesn't matter and shouldn't effect the output and performance of the insert.  My gut begs to differ and I am about to stuff a bunch of insulation in between just to check it out and make sure, including laying some insulation right on top of the unit, then putting the surrounds back on.  Thought?


----------



## Redbarn (Feb 24, 2013)

We comfortably heat 2000 sq ft of a 200 year old house (think drafts & so,so insulation) with a Jotul Rockland.

However, it wasn't an easy learning process.
Took me until the 2nd year to figure out how to run it.
The secret is to use really dry wood, pack it tight, get it real hot and learn to play the air control.

These stoves are not appliances, they are instruments.
When you learn to play it, it just pours out heat.

Not what a new owner wants to read, but thats the way it is.


----------



## Ansky (Feb 24, 2013)

I've only had my jotul 550 for about 4 weeks now, and I'm pretty happy with it.  I have a 1850sf 2 story colonial and burn 24/7 and I'm not really usin oil anymore.  It keeps my 1st floor at about 68 and upstairs 67.  I did set my thermostat to 66 at 6am and I hear the oil burner go on about then, so I do have the oil heating the house for about an hour each morning.  Without that, the house would get down to about 62 in the morning.  I wouldn't care about that, but my wife complains that is too cold for her and our two kids, 4 and 6 yrs old.  But in the morning I ALWAYS have a nice bed of hot coals, and just need to throw some thin splits on, and within minutes, I have a raging fire again. 

My only complaint is how much wood I'm going through.  I burn through a full wheel barrow of wood each day...about 25 16" splits each day.  I don't know what that will equate to for a full season, but I think it will be a lot!


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

Redbarn said:


> We comfortably heat 2000 sq ft of a 200 year old house (think drafts & so,so insulation) with a Jotul Rockland.
> 
> However, it wasn't an easy learning process.
> Took me until the 2nd year to figure out how to run it.
> ...


 
The splits of oak and ash I use are very dry now, between 5%-20% on the moisture meter per all standard recommendations and manuals. I'll try to pack it tight from now on, and continue to play the damper for air control. Whether I want to read this or not, that is not the way it should be or was pumped up to be.

I'll say it again and again, over and over, until I am proved first hand differently with my insert, this product is worthless and a complete waste of really good hard earned money and personal energy/time.


----------



## aansorge (Feb 24, 2013)

It does seem like a chunk of people are having issues with this unit producing good heat.  Must be a finicky stove.

I do not agree with A2 that all inserts don't heat well. My old lopi cranked out the heat and my current zc fireplace seems to do better than the rockland... It's 74 to 77in 2/3rds of the house and 70 in the rest (2000 sq ft above ground, 1000 below and 26 degrees out).  Still, when it gets Minnesota cold out it does need some help.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

I did not say that "all inserts don't heat well."  I say that this one doesn't heat well.  And right on about being too finicky.  Nothing should be this temperamental.   I had an old insert like aansorge has, and experienced those temps in my house no problem, and became accustomed to that as the norm.  I was sold that this insert would do the same, no problem, if not better.  

For example, I just came home and my house was 67.  There is a really good and hot bed of coals leftover from this afternoon.  I just packed the stove, opened up the damper, and have everything all set for the evening before I go to bed, when I will restock it.  In just that short amount of time to get everything all situated, my house temp dropped 2 degrees.  This is common with this insert.  And temps outside right now here in Michigan are 33.  This is another factor which leads me to believe this is really a unit that doesn't work well.


----------



## rkofler (Feb 24, 2013)

From what the installer (toolshed of a guy), and salesman (indifferent to say the least) have checked out, all is set up properly now. I should say I am not new to heating with wood. I have heated over the years in different locations for about the equivalent of 15 years or so. I am having no problem starting the fire, and getting the unit extremely hot over the course of an hour. I do stoke it with a "V" pattern on the bottom after raking the coals to the sides and from the back of the unit. Then I put a reverse "V" on top of the initial restarter kindling/wood. If need be, I use a couple of sticks of fatwood to help start everything back up. Then I lay one or two larger pieces (3-5 inch splits) across the "V" and continue to build from there as everything heats up and burns hot. I keep the door propped open just a tad, and then when it is too hot to the touch, or I know it is all heated up, I close the door, but keep the damper all the way open for a while longer, like up to an hour, and keep adding fuel.

An hour sounds like a long time to have the air all the way open. I find the heat really starts to build when I shut it down a quarter. As long as there are some visible flames you are good. Sometimes after about 10 minutes with the air cut a quarter I will crack the door open for 30 seconds or so just to get the flames roaring, then close the door and maybe cut the air to half at that point.

I chock it as full as I can for the night and dampen it down to about 1/4 or so shut, and at times, all the way shut. When I wake up about 5 AM, there is a nice bed of coals, and I start it back up for the day since I leave around 6 AM for work. It should be noted that even though my brick and the unit is warm to the touch when I wake up and check it out in the morning, my house is usually in the high 50s, from being in the mid to high 60s before going to bed. It heats the house fairly quickly to a couple or four degrees warmer within an hour, but to get any type of real heat out of it, there is no way. I am not retired and don't have another to check out the fire throughout the day while I am at work.

On a cold night, I don't think you can expect your house temp to maintain all night. You are going to lose at least 5 or 6 degrees. I'm assuming you have another heat source? Why don't you try getting the house up to 73 before going to bed. If you lose 10 degrees overnight at least you are still in the 60s.


P.S. One flaw that I forgot to put out there and ask is that there is a three inch gap at the bottom of this unit from each side of my fireplace box walls. Even with my continued prodding about maybe this one is too small and they mismeasured or misordered or misdelivered, they tell me that all is OK and this spacing doesn't matter and shouldn't effect the output and performance of the insert. My gut begs to differ and I am about to stuff a bunch of insulation in between just to check it out and make sure, including laying some insulation right on top of the unit, then putting the surrounds back on. Thought?[/quote]

Can you post a picture of the 3 inch gap? Doesn't sound right.

I have no complaints with this insert, this is only my second winter. Cut my oil consumption significantly and my house is typically warmer than it would be if we were still heating with just oil.

You will get there, stick with it.


----------



## aansorge (Feb 24, 2013)

Sorry a2, I shoulda said cottonwood steve....  Plenty of good inserts out there, but some do make some noise.  I was at a church retreat in the fall and at the cafeteria there was an insert there that was big, quiet, and generated massive heat. I should of taken a picture to have people on here help figure out what it was.  Next year.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

aansorge said:


> Sorry a2, I shoulda said cottonwood steve.... Plenty of good inserts out there, but some do make some noise. I was at a church retreat in the fall and at the cafeteria there was an insert there that was big, quiet, and generated massive heat. I should of taken a picture to have people on here help figure out what it was. Next year.


 
No worries.  Just making sure to clarify.  Thanks!


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 24, 2013)

Here is the pic of the 3" gap on the right side of the insert.  The left side is the same.


----------



## rkofler (Feb 25, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Here is the pic of the 3" gap on the right side of the insert. The left side is the same.


 
You are missing the bottom trim piece. See page 13 of the manual.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 25, 2013)

rkofler said:


> You are missing the bottom trim piece. See page 13 of the manual.


 
I took the bottom trim piece off so that I could show where the 3" gap is, on both sides of the insert. The bottom trim piece would just lay on the hearth if I didn't put little blocks underneath it in order to make it flush up against the unit.  This is yet another one of those installation things that added to the schlock job and handling of this unit by the recommended installer and local company that sold it to me.


----------



## rkofler (Feb 25, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> I took the bottom trim piece off so that I could show where the 3" gap is, on both sides of the insert. The bottom trim piece would just lay on the hearth if I didn't put little blocks underneath it in order to make it flush up against the unit. This is yet another one of those installation things that added to the schlock job and handling of this unit by the recommended installer and local company that sold it to me.


 
Looks like your hearth is not flush with the firebox? If so, you will have a gap below the trim. I believe that gap you are referring to is normal, trim piece covers it. There are 2 bolts that hold the trim piece in place, you should not have to use blocks.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 25, 2013)

rkofler said:


> Looks like your hearth is not flush with the firebox? If so, you will have a gap below the trim. I believe that gap you are referring to is normal, trim piece covers it. There are 2 bolts that hold the trim piece in place, you should not have to use blocks.


 
OK.  Thanks!  I'll look into it.


----------



## jnorthway (Feb 25, 2013)

My 2 cents on this... I have the same approximate 3" gap. It should not affect operation of the insert in any way. The insert is self contained. I will say that installer did a hack job if they just propped that lower trim piece up with blocks. There should be 2 cast pieces that make up the trim piece. They are held together by a 20"-24" piece of stamped metal. There are 2 slots\gates that line up with 2 studs with bolts on either side of the switch housing.



A2Woodburner said:


> OK. Thanks! I'll look into it.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 26, 2013)

jnorthway said:


> My 2 cents on this... I have the same approximate 3" gap. It should not affect operation of the insert in any way. The insert is self contained. I will say that installer did a hack job if they just propped that lower trim piece up with blocks. There should be 2 cast pieces that make up the trim piece. They are held together by a 20"-24" piece of stamped metal. There are 2 slots\gates that line up with 2 studs with bolts on either side of the switch housing.


 
The installer just left the lower trim piece off and laying underneath without even attempting to put it in the right way.  I found the only way to get it up and to stay where it is supposed too is to prop it up with little wood blocks.  I will try to set it up right when I get a chance later this week.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 1, 2013)

rkofler said:


> I chock it as full as I can for the night and dampen it down to about 1/4 or so shut, and at times, all the way shut. When I wake up about 5 AM, there is a nice bed of coals, and I start it back up for the day since I leave around 6 AM for work. It should be noted that even though my brick and the unit is warm to the touch when I wake up and check it out in the morning, my house is usually in the high 50s, from being in the mid to high 60s before going to bed. It heats the house fairly quickly to a couple or four degrees warmer within an hour, but to get any type of real heat out of it, there is no way. I am not retired and don't have another to check out the fire throughout the day while I am at work.
> 
> On a cold night, I don't think you can expect your house temp to maintain all night. You are going to lose at least 5 or 6 degrees. I'm assuming you have another heat source? Why don't you try getting the house up to 73 before going to bed. If you lose 10 degrees overnight at least you are still in the 60s.


 

If I could get my house up to 73 degrees, I would.  It used to be that way with my old insert, consistently 72-78.  Now with this one,  I feel fortunate and do a dance when the house temp hits 69.  It gets to 68 and stays right there.  With the temps in the low 30s and at night in the mid 20s right now, the house is OK and I can live with the house temp in the upper 60s.  But even with these warmer outside temps, and with the uber dry wood I am using (oak, ash, maple), the house temp still never get up there like I was told and assured and expected, based on the insert I got rid of and my last 5 years of experience with an insert.  

Some of the tips and suggestions I have received from this group have been very very helpful and made a difference in overall burn issues, but again, the main issue of this unit not heating my house as it should and keeping my house temps 5-10 degrees colder all the time than accustomed too is what makes this unit worthless.  

An email last Sunday to the original sales guy has produced no response, an email from one rep to another rep last Sunday has produced no response.  I am waiting and hanging in there, but I would be surprised if there is any follow through customer service and care wise with Jotul.  Thankfully I am not holding my breath.  Maybe waiting a week is expecting too much?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 3, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> The installer just left the lower trim piece off and laying underneath without even attempting to put it in the right way. I found the only way to get it up and to stay where it is supposed too is to prop it up with little wood blocks. I will try to set it up right when I get a chance later this week. Thanks for the info.


 
Now the latest...after searching all over for the stamped metal part that makes up part of the trim piece and is supposed to be attach to the lower trim piece in order for it to be able to hook it up to the insert as part of the surround, it is no where to be found.  Back to the system where I prop it up with two little pieces of wood so that it "looks" relatively OK.  

Have I said how much of a pile of junk this unit is?


----------



## rkofler (Mar 3, 2013)

Your dealer should be taking care of this for you. If they don't, call Jotul directly. When was it installed? Did you pay with a credit card? Get them involved if your dealer refuses to help.
This "pile of junk" has heated my 2K square foot home for the last 2 winters. Probably just about paid for itself, with heating oil prices where they are. I am not trying to minimize what you are going through, but it sounds like they are mostly dealer issues, not stove issues. There is a reason the 550 is an extremely popular unit.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 3, 2013)

rkofler said:


> Your dealer should be taking care of this for you. If they don't, call Jotul directly. When was it installed? Did you pay with a credit card? Get them involved if your dealer refuses to help.
> This "pile of junk" has heated my 2K square foot home for the last 2 winters. Probably just about paid for itself, with heating oil prices where they are. I am not trying to minimize what you are going through, but it sounds like they are mostly dealer issues, not stove issues. There is a reason the 550 is an extremely popular unit.


 
Thanks but this is a dealer and stove issue.  As stated in an earlier post, it was installed in early December.  When I couldn't get any initial assistance from the dealer, I contacted Jotul directly, as was put through to the area rep.  Left a message on his VM.  That person never got back with me, and then cancelled an appointment to come out to my house to check it out twice.  Again, thanks for your help and input.  I am glad you are getting great results from this unit.  This just isn't warming up my 1100 SqFt open plan ranch style house adequately.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 9, 2013)

Just giving a big thank you to Jotulguy for getting the Jotul rep in my area to finally contact me and set up a time to come check the unit I am having such problems with.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 25, 2013)

Been a while but here is the update after meeting with the Jotul area rep this afternoon. I am losing too much heat up my chimney, even though at the top where the cap is, it is sealed off by a flat plate the last inches of the stove pipe run through and cap sits on. Plus, being an old outside chimney, the old ash clean out door needs to be sealed up, even though the ash dump door in the firebox has been sealed for years. When I started converting over to solely wood heat about 6 years ago, I had to cut out the damper/flue in the chimney to get the stove pipe through. With this unit, I have to shut all that excess space off so that the heat from this unit is not mixing so much with the cold air in the chimney and I am not wasting so much heat up the column of the chimney and more will be kept where it is supposed to be...heating my house. Sealing this opening off with Rock Wool or Stone Wool insulation should do the trick, and is what the Jotul rep recommended. Once I take care of those two items, all should be good to go since the unit itself is firing just fine and everything on it is working just fine. The wood I am using is more than seasoned, and moisture meter testing indicates 15% or less, and probably on average 9% of what we checked today. Why this couldn't have been solved earlier in the burn season, misunderstanding and miscommunication happen on the other end. The confidence is high that taking care of and making these adjustments will produce the expected results and all the issues will be gone.  Why the meaurer/installer guy never caught any of this is beyond all three of our comprehension, but at least I know where to start from to get this thing right from now on.

Thanks again everyone!...

Stay tuned til next burning season, unless I can get things sealed up in the next week or so and do some decent burning. Winter is hanging on tough this month and maybe into the first week of April.


----------



## RayMaine (Apr 7, 2013)

I have the Jotul C550 and it has heated my home well.  I have an outside chimney and I can heat a 1200 sq ft. area up to 80 degrees in no time.  The one problem I have is the reostat does not last more than two years.   Th blower just stopped this last time(3rd reostat), I changed it and still nothing.  I have it set to manual since the auto has never worked.  I can bring it up to 650 degrees and it will not click on.  Any idea on what would cause the blower to stop?  Remember, I just put in a new reostat.


----------



## begreen (Apr 7, 2013)

Cold exterior fireplaces can really suck the heat of of an insert. I would put up a full damper-seal blockoff plate. It is not that much work and will do a better job of tightly sealing the flue liner and holding the Roxul in place.You might also consider lining the firebox with some kaowool blanket material.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/


----------



## begreen (Apr 7, 2013)

RayMaine said:


> I have the Jotul C550 and it has heated my home well. I have an outside chimney and I can heat a 1200 sq ft. area up to 80 degrees in no time. The one problem I have is the reostat does not last more than two years. Th blower just stopped this last time(3rd reostat), I changed it and still nothing. I have it set to manual since the auto has never worked. I can bring it up to 650 degrees and it will not click on. Any idea on what would cause the blower to stop? Remember, I just put in a new reostat.


 
Check the thermostatic snap switch. Make sure it is firmly pressed in place against the stove body. Three rheostats is unusual. Check wiring for any shorts against the stove body, or between terminals. When were the blowers last cleaned?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 7, 2013)

begreen said:


> Cold exterior fireplaces can really suck the heat of of an insert. I would put up a full damper-seal blockoff plate. It is not that much work and will do a better job of tightly sealing the flue liner and holding the Roxul in place.You might also consider lining the firebox with some kaowool blanket material.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/


 
Thanks for this!  I will look into it more and probably make one for my needs.  I like what I see and read so far about this type of system!


----------



## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Apr 7, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Been a while but here is the update after meeting with the Jotul area rep this afternoon. I am losing too much heat up my chimney, even though at the top where the cap is, it is sealed off by a flat plate the last inches of the stove pipe run through and cap sits on. Plus, being an old outside chimney, the old ash clean out door needs to be sealed up, even though the ash dump door in the firebox has been sealed for years. When I started converting over to solely wood heat about 6 years ago, I had to cut out the damper/flue in the chimney to get the stove pipe through. With this unit, I have to shut all that excess space off so that the heat from this unit is not mixing so much with the cold air in the chimney and I am not wasting so much heat up the column of the chimney and more will be kept where it is supposed to be...heating my house. Sealing this opening off with Rock Wool or Stone Wool insulation should do the trick, and is what the Jotul rep recommended. Once I take care of those two items, all should be good to go since the unit itself is firing just fine and everything on it is working just fine. The wood I am using is more than seasoned, and moisture meter testing indicates 15% or less, and probably on average 9% of what we checked today. Why this couldn't have been solved earlier in the burn season, misunderstanding and miscommunication happen on the other end. The confidence is high that taking care of and making these adjustments will produce the expected results and all the issues will be gone.  Why the meaurer/installer guy never caught any of this is beyond all three of our comprehension, but at least I know where to start from to get this thing right from now on.
> 
> Thanks again everyone!...
> 
> Stay tuned til next burning season, unless I can get things sealed up in the next week or so and do some decent burning. Winter is hanging on tough this month and maybe into the first week of April.


I really hope that this works, but in my opinion, I just think your expectations are more than the stove can handle. Please let me know your findings, I'm having the same issues as you are.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 7, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> I really hope that this works, but in my opinion, I just think your expectations are more than the stove can handle. Please let me know your findings, I'm having the same issues as you are.


 
I'll keep everyone posted.  FYI...my expectations for this unit were what was pushed by the salesman, as well as now the factory rep.  Rest assured that if this isn't the fix to the substandard quality of performance I am getting now, I will be letting everyone know.  Actually, I will let everyone know one way or another.  Sorry you are having the same troubles I am, and I hope you get it all straightened out.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

Happy Winter everyone!  It has been a long while with several seasons in between and now we are back at it.  Over the summer months, I have done EVERYTHING recommended by the Jotul rep, people who have chimed in on this site, and the company that looks after my chimney system, along with some house upgrades of my own.  

The chimney is all sealed off and the heat shield plate is installed where the original fireplace damper once was.  All the openings that were once to the outside are sealed off with fire proof foam board.  Chimney was swept and vacuumed, and insulating blanket placed around the stack.  I even made 5k worth of energy saving improvements to my house with insulation, sealing off window and door leaks, etc. etc. etc.  Back in June, I brought in from the outside 2 full cord of 2 year seasoned wood for this winter and stacked it all up on pallets in the garage.

I would say I have been burning steady for just over a month now.  I rake the ashes into two piles on each side of the firebox and keep about a couple of inches away from the sides.  This helps with rekindling the fire after a long day away at work, or in the morning.  The unit overall is working fine and heating my house well, but not great, and certainly nothing close to the old unit that this one replaced.  My fires are built up slowly from very small kindling to slowly larger and eventually larger pieces.  I keep the door cracked open for about an hour as this tends to heat everything up completely and fully.  Then I close the door but keep the damper open until everything gets super red hot.  From there, I shut it down half way, and eventually just about all the way or to 3/4 the way.  The fire does appear and tends to burn well.  Temps of my barely 1100 sq ft ranch house, 68-70 on average and steady.  

Fan works fine and I have it blowing full bore.  Temp sensor on fan is working just fine.  With all the insulation and energy improvements I made over the summer, my house retains the heat much much longer, and even in the bitter cold temps we have been experiencing for the better part of the last month.  Certainly, when the outside temps are closer to 30 and above, which we haven't seen for weeks, the temp in the house gets up to 74 max (what I have seen).  I guess I should not complain having an average house temp of 68-70, and even 72.  This is just not what I am used to in the past with the old unit over the years.  A good caveat is the amount of wood I am burning up and using is way way less.  And it doesn't take that much effort to rekindle my fire after being away for a long day at work, or in the early morning hours after an overnight's burn session.

This unit takes a lot of micromanaging for the first 3 or so hours of a burn, but once shut down, tends to do, as I said above, well overall.  It is finicky.  So in the end, I am luke warm about this buy and if I could go back, I would NEVER had made this purchase and mistake.  This unit is fine overall, I am just not that impressed or satisfied based on my years of experience with my old insert.  I have to live with it though and make do.  Maybe my expectations are/were too high, but being a realist, that is not the case based on past experience, information, and discussions had.

Thanks everyone for listening and helping me through this whole process.  Enjoy all of your wood burning experiences and remain toasty through this winter.  There truly is no heat like wood heat!


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2013)

Everything described points to less than ideally seasoned wood. There is no way one should need to run this insert with the door cracked open for an hour and then the air wide open for another hour. I'm pretty convinced the stove is not the issue here, it's the wood. Get next year's wood split, stacked and top-covered now. 

Question, are the basement walls insulated?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

begreen said:


> Everything described points to less than ideally seasoned wood. There is no way one should need to run this insert with the door cracked open for an hour and then the air wide open for another hour. I'm pretty convinced the stove is not the issue here, it's the wood. Get next year's wood split, stacked and top-covered now.
> 
> Question, are the basement walls insulated?



The wood is more than seasoned well and is dry, and has been cared for in an ideal setting.  It is NOT the wood.  Even the factory rep who came out in the spring time gave the OK and was impressed with how the wood is cared for.  I burn ash, oak and maple.  It has been cut and split and stacked by me for 2 years before it is being burned.  The ash is less time since it is dead stand anywhere from 3-7 years.  I have and used a moisture meter and the readings indicate now that there is anywhere from 1%-7% moisture in any of the pieces I have and am burning, and I check it at various parts of the wood.  When stacked outside for seasoning, it is covered.  Plus, I have about a 3-4 year supply of wood already cut, split, stacked, covered and seasoning.  

The basement walls are not insulated completely, but I did have foam insulation sprayed around as much of the footing board(s) where the house sits on top of the basement foundation blocks. 

I understand you are only trying to help, but please, I am not a newbie at this by any means, and have taken the advice of others here and applied them too.  Bottom line, I was told this unit would work as good if not better than the archaic one I had in there for seven years beforehand.  It doesn't.  But I will try and see if not having the door cracked for so long helps with the intial firing/heating up process when it is just down to coals. 

Thank you for responding.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2013)

Running the insert the way you are doing is not normal. The fact that the fire needs a lot more air points to the wood, though it could be weaker draft as well. Both should be rechecked. The stove is being run quite improperly so the question is why?  I'll try to cover all conditions because I'm not on site looking at the fire.

The wood is not being tested for moisture correctly with those very low readings. At 1% the wood would be dust. Perfectly dried oak flooring is 8-9%. Perfectly seasoned cord wood will be around twice that percent. Oak can take up to 3 yrs to season. The reading must be taken on a fresh face of the wood, never on the end grain. Take a thick split of oak and resplit it in half. Then quickly take a reading on the freshly split face of the wood. It should be in the 15-20% range if the meter is working correctly and the wood is fully seasoned.

The uninsulated basement walls are where a good portion of the heat is going. They can account for a 25%-33% heat loss depending on the exposure.

Chimney draft in basements can be tricky due to negative pressure. This can be exacerbated by upstairs windows being slightly open, attic doors or vents leaking, kitchen exhaust fans, dryers, etc.. One thing to try is to open a window close to the stove slightly and see if the fire responds briskly. If so, the insert needs more air.

If the wood is dry then the more air you give it the cooler the fire is going to be and the more heat is going to go up the chimney rather than staying hot in the firebox where you want it.

As a test, take some of your best wood and start a fire.  Then close the door as soon as the fire is going well. This should be within 5-10 minutes at the most. Let the flame regain strength, then incrementally start closing down the air control every 5-10 minutes just to the point where the flames start getting lazy, but not sputtering or out. With dry wood, after 30-45 minutes the air control should be at least 3/4's closed and a strong secondary burn should be visible at the top of the firebox. This will be the hottest part of the burn cycle. Stove temp should be about 600-650F at this stage.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

OK.  The last two paragraphs of your post are something that I will try and see what happens.  I know running the insert like I am is not normal.  If it were, I wouldn't be having these issues.  Trust me, I have been trying everything.  My basement is not the issue.  My house just got over 5k worth of energy/insulation work done to it this summer as a whole house project.  There is no exposure that hasn't been looked at and inspected for ways to improve.  This house was built in 1963.  Drafting in this house is not an issue.  There is only so much I can do. 

Regarding the readings on my wood with the moisture meter... folks have been advising different methods and numbers.  You have been adding to that mix and now confusion.  You are more than welcome to come out here to Ann Arbor, MI and take a look at my wood pile and see for yourself.  In fact, I invite you to come out and check this whole system out.  I have done everything the local Jotul rep has advised and his observation has been that everything is fine.  

For example, we are having a winter storm right now getting 8" of snow.  Outside temp is 19.  Wind is 13 with gusts up to 20.  Fire was started and has been going since about 9 this morning.  Temp in the house 69.  With the old insert, and barely any insulation in my house, the inside temp would have been around 74 steady no problem.  And I DO understand and know that comparing the old with the new is like comparing a cassette tape with an iPod and beyond.  It just is what it is with this.  Pointing fingers at every single little thing as a contributor just doesn't fly.  Last year's burning season, sure...yes, but not now.  I have put almost 5k of hard earned money into making this right with the purchase and everything going into it of this unit.  It is working well, just not up to par and standard as I was led to believe.  And certainly not close to what once was.  I just have to live with being a little disappointed.

Thanks for your advice and tips.  I will try some of them to see if there is a bit of improvement.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2013)

The main difference between the old and the new stove is how they are run and how they burn the fuel. If you gave the old insert more air it would get hotter. Less air brought it down to an idle and smolder. Modern EPA stoves work almost the opposite. An inrush of primary air keeps the fire raging, but most of the real potential is lost because most of the fire is heading up the chimney. If you had a thermometer on the flue liner I think you would be surprised how hot it is getting. Maybe even alarmed. When you cut back primary air in a modern secondary tube stove the vacuum of the draft starts pulling air through the secondary manifold and tubes. This causes turbulence in the top part of the firebox and significantly greater heat in the firebox instead of in the chimney. This is much more efficient and can raise the fire temperature a lot. Most folks that have good draft can close the primary air control 3/4s to all the way and still get a hot, long lasting burn in the C550. Because the heat is now contained in the stove the insert gets hotter and puts out more heat, with less primary air.

PS: What was the old insert? What size firebox?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

That makes sense and I'll work on incorporating that more to make the insert work better and heat up.  I do shut it down at night before going to sleep to about 3/4 shut.  Sometimes, it can stand being completely shut off, but not very often.  Let's see what happens with your advice and guidance.  This is helpful to fine tune it more.  Thanks!

A pic that shows what my old insert looked like (not mine) is attached.  I can't remember the firebox size.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if the old insert had 50-100% more wood capacity also. Some of them were cavernous beasts.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

begreen said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the old insert had 50-100% more wood capacity also. Some of them were cavernous beasts.



That it was!  One of the good points about this new one is that I am using AT LEAST 1/3 as much wood to heat, if not more.  This is the first real season, so I am know more once it is over, but good guestimation is I burn way way less wood.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 14, 2013)

Do you have a stovetop thermometer? Definitely helps understand what is going on. As begreen said, the heat really starts to pump as you turn the air down. The key is not smoldering, but getting that air closed down. I find the sweetspot for me is about a quarter closed. Once I know the flames won't die, I close it a quarter. The heat really starts to build. Should only take 20 minutes or so then i can close halfway. Maybe another 10 minutes and close 3/4 to 7/8. You definitely should not be leaving the door open for an hour. That is like having an open fireplace, it is sucking cool air into the firebox and any heat up the chimney. You want to keep the heat inside the firebox.


----------



## Ansky (Dec 14, 2013)

I've got the 550 also, and I completely agree with everything begreen and rkofler said.  You need to find the sweet spot of the stove.  And that varies each time you burn depending on wood type, wood moisture, and load size.  A cheap magnetic thermometer really helps you zone into the sweet spot.  

I never keep my air open all the way.  Maybe the first 10 minutes of a new fire.  After that I close it half way, and then ten minutes later I'm down to about a 1/4 open.  That's when the secondaries really kick in and the temps rise quickly.  

I'm using this stove to heat a 1850 SF space and it's doing a pretty good job of keeping things 68-71.  I haven't turned on the oil heat yet this year, so I'm happy.  I hope you figure out the stove and can be happy with it too.  Good luck.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

Thanks rkofler and Ansky.  I do have a thermometer that the sales guy gave to me, but the factory rep said I really didn't need it.  There is no good place to put it since everything is hidden and also, according to rep, give a consistent efficient reading.

I just got back in from an evening out, leaving around 6 or so, house was 70, came back a bit after 10 and house was down to 66 with coals.  The damper was probably 3/4 closed.  I have re lit the fire and am doing what you all suggested as to not having the door cracked for longer than a few minutes to get flames going, and closing off the damper to about 1/3.  Fan just came back on after maybe a half hour or so.  That means it is heating up much quicker.  I am going to shut it down some more to somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4.  

Agree about finding the sweet spot, and that relates to my first comment today that this unit is finicky/high maintenance and one has to really micro manage it.

Thanks again to begreen, rkofler, and Ansky for the fine tuning advice today and this evening.  That makes more sense now and I am pretty sure the difference is being made already.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 14, 2013)

Stovetop thermometer goes into the slot the air comes out of. Turned mine upside down, think it makes it easier to read.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

rkofler said:


> Stovetop thermometer goes into the slot the air comes out of. Turned mine upside down, think it makes it easier to read.



Pic would help.

Suggestions about damper settings appear to be helping.  In an hour and a half, house temp quickly rose from 66 to 70.  That seems to be the ticket.  Will keep you posted if issues continue or this ends up not being the solution.


----------



## begreen (Dec 14, 2013)

Yea! Sounds like good progress.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 14, 2013)

begreen said:


> Yea! Sounds like progress.



Yeah.  Thanks for everything!


----------



## Sledhead00 (Dec 15, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Thanks rkofler and Ansky.  I do have a thermometer that the sales guy gave to me, but the factory rep said I really didn't need it.  There is no good place to put it since everything is hidden and also, according to rep, give a consistent efficient reading.
> 
> I just got back in from an evening out, leaving around 6 or so, house was 70, came back a bit after 10 and house was down to 66 with coals.  The damper was probably 3/4 closed.  I have re lit the fire and am doing what you all suggested as to not having the door cracked for longer than a few minutes to get flames going, and closing off the damper to about 1/3.  *Fan just came back on after maybe a half hour or so*.  That means it is heating up much quicker.  I am going to shut it down some more to somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4.
> 
> ...


 
Just an observation, did you leave with a good fire going and the blower running? To have the blower go out in that time span with a fire going seems odd...


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 15, 2013)

Sledhead00 said:


> Just an observation, did you leave with a good fire going and the blower running? To have the blower go out in that time span with a fire going seems odd...



I did not have it packed tight before I left, and fan/blower was running.  The ash I am burning right now is pretty old and well dried out.  That can account for the fire burning down quickly and insert cooling down so that the fan went off.

As an aside, I think the house was up to 76 in the middle of the night when I woke up for a minute and happened to check (unless I was dreaming).  This morning around 5, house temp was 66, and within a half hour after re stoking, house was back up to 70.  But that's where it has stayed for the most part until now bouncing back and forth between 71-72.  Outside temp has climbed to 21.  I can live with this (so far) and am more pleased with results and heat output.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 15, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Pic would help.
> 
> Suggestions about damper settings appear to be helping.  In an hour and a half, house temp quickly rose from 66 to 70.  That seems to be the ticket.  Will keep you posted if issues continue or this ends up not being the solution.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 15, 2013)

Got it.  Thanks!  That's where I'll put it and keep an eye out.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 15, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Got it.  Thanks!  That's where I'll put it and keep an eye out.


Do not be shy about letting it get hot!! 750 in this stove is just fine, trust me. If you get it up to 750 I guarantee your house will be 75 degrees.


----------



## Ansky (Dec 16, 2013)

rkofler said:


> Do not be shy about letting it get hot!! 750 in this stove is just fine, trust me. If you get it up to 750 I guarantee your house will be 75 degrees.


 
750, huh?  On my magnetic thermometer, 750 is in the red "danger" zone.  But I never really worry about it too much since it's so easy to hit 700 in this stove.  This stove seems to like it hot.  If the secondaries are doing their thing, it's almost guaranteed to be 700.  But anymore than that I get a little nervous.  What would you say is the point where this stove is at it's limit?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 16, 2013)

Dumb question Rk...do you just pick up the thermometer off the stove top to read it, then put it back?  If it is that hot, I am not sure I would want to be touching any part of the insert itself.

All the hints and suggestions about damper settings for starting the fire and all the way through the burn appear to be the thing that did the trick.  Even with throwing some not so great wood in, the unit is heating up well and the house is warmer.  Our low last night and early this morning when I left was 4, and the house was 71 when I woke up after a night's burn.  Just kicked up the coals, stocked it full of new wood for the day, and now starting the fire back up again for the evening.


----------



## oconnor (Dec 16, 2013)

Ansky said:


> 750, huh?  On my magnetic thermometer, 750 is in the red "danger" zone.  But I never really worry about it too much since it's so easy to hit 700 in this stove.  This stove seems to like it hot.  If the secondaries are doing their thing, it's almost guaranteed to be 700.  But anymore than that I get a little nervous.  What would you say is the point where this stove is at it's limit?



The temp range is for smoke pipe surface temp not stove top temps.


----------



## Ansky (Dec 16, 2013)

oconnor said:


> The temp range is for smoke pipe surface temp not stove top temps.


I'm not sure about that.  My thermometer is a "inferno stovetop meter".  When i was buying it, I did see stove pipe units as well, but mine is a stove top tool.  And the "too hot" zone starts at 650.  Supposedly 400-650 is the "best zone".  But I feel my stove is running at peak efficiency around 700.  

I also don't think these magnetic meters are all that accurate...I use it as more of a guide than anything specific.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 16, 2013)

A2Woodburner said:


> Dumb question Rk...do you just pick up the thermometer off the stove top to read it, then put it back?  If it is that hot, I am not sure I would want to be touching any part of the insert itself.
> 
> All the hints and suggestions about damper settings for starting the fire and all the way through the burn appear to be the thing that did the trick.  Even with throwing some not so great wood in, the unit is heating up well and the house is warmer.  Our low last night and early this morning when I left was 4, and the house was 71 when I woke up after a night's burn.  Just kicked up the coals, stocked it full of new wood for the day, and now starting the fire back up again for the evening.



Use a flashlight to see the thermometer. I have a small rubber one that is always by the stove. Use it to move the air control level too when it is hot. I placed the thermometer upside down, I think it's easier to read. You don't need an exact reading, just an idea.


----------



## rkofler (Dec 16, 2013)

Ansky said:


> 750, huh?  On my magnetic thermometer, 750 is in the red "danger" zone.  But I never really worry about it too much since it's so easy to hit 700 in this stove.  This stove seems to like it hot.  If the secondaries are doing their thing, it's almost guaranteed to be 700.  But anymore than that I get a little nervous.  What would you say is the point where this stove is at it's limit?


If I let the stove get really hot I make sure to crank the fan. Cools the stove, and of course, heats the house!


----------



## Redbarn (Dec 16, 2013)

Ansky said:


> I've got the 550 also, and I completely agree with everything begreen and rkofler said.  You need to find the sweet spot of the stove.  And that varies each time you burn depending on wood type, wood moisture, and load size.  A cheap magnetic thermometer really helps you zone into the sweet spot.
> 
> I never keep my air open all the way.  Maybe the first 10 minutes of a new fire.  After that I close it half way, and then ten minutes later I'm down to about a 1/4 open.  That's when the secondaries really kick in and the temps rise quickly.
> 
> I'm using this stove to heat a 1850 SF space and it's doing a pretty good job of keeping things 68-71.  I haven't turned on the oil heat yet this year, so I'm happy.  I hope you figure out the stove and can be happy with it too.  Good luck.



My experience with my Rockland matches Ansky's exactly. 
Heating 2000 sq ft to 70-72.
The Rockland is a great insert but it took me 2 years and 3 year seasoned wood to really make it sing.
Stick with it.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Dec 16, 2013)

rkofler said:


> Use a flashlight to see the thermometer. I have a small rubber one that is always by the stove. Use it to move the air control level too when it is hot. I placed the thermometer upside down, I think it's easier to read. You don't need an exact reading, just an idea.



OK.  Thanks!


----------



## hamsey (Jan 30, 2014)

A2, Curious to see how things are going?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Jan 30, 2014)

hamsey said:


> A2, Curious to see how things are going?



Thanks for checking in and asking.  It is going OK, overall.  It keeps my house around 68-70, but not much above that.  Given the bitter temps here in Michigan for this month, I say it is what can be expected.  Amount of wood use is fine and I am about 2/3-3/4 through full cord I brought into my garage back in June.  I attribute that to the extreme weather.  The unit is working hard.  I still work to find the sweet spot for dampening down the amount of air flow to the fire.  I think I have a faulty thermometer because it never really shows above 300+ no matter how hot the unit gets.  Consequently, I just don't really use it.


----------



## cp20855 (Jan 30, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Been a while but here is the update after meeting with the Jotul area rep this afternoon. I am losing too much heat up my chimney, even though at the top where the cap is, it is sealed off by a flat plate the last inches of the stove pipe run through and cap sits on. Plus, being an old outside chimney, the old ash clean out door needs to be sealed up, even though the ash dump door in the firebox has been sealed for years. When I started converting over to solely wood heat about 6 years ago, I had to cut out the damper/flue in the chimney to get the stove pipe through. With this unit, I have to shut all that excess space off so that the heat from this unit is not mixing so much with the cold air in the chimney and I am not wasting so much heat up the column of the chimney and more will be kept where it is supposed to be...heating my house. Sealing this opening off with Rock Wool or Stone Wool insulation should do the trick, and is what the Jotul rep recommended. Once I take care of those two items, all should be good to go since the unit itself is firing just fine and everything on it is working just fine. The wood I am using is more than seasoned, and moisture meter testing indicates 15% or less, and probably on average 9% of what we checked today. Why this couldn't have been solved earlier in the burn season, misunderstanding and miscommunication happen on the other end. The confidence is high that taking care of and making these adjustments will produce the expected results and all the issues will be gone.  Why the meaurer/installer guy never caught any of this is beyond all three of our comprehension, but at least I know where to start from to get this thing right from now on.
> 
> Thanks again everyone!...
> 
> Stay tuned til next burning season, unless I can get things sealed up in the next week or so and do some decent burning. Winter is hanging on tough this month and maybe into the first week of April.


----------



## cp20855 (Jan 30, 2014)

AZWoodburner, would you mind telling me which Jotul rep went to you house and told you about sealing off the opening with Rock Wool or Stone Wool? (My email is ccleibee@gmail.com if you don't want to put names on this website.)  The rep who came here said that our wood was too wet.  That was at least a year ago, maybe 2 years. Yes, there was a steep learning curve for us in making and maintaining fires in Jotul 550, but we are now proficient at this. However, the darn thing just plain doesn't heat the house or even the room it is in.

What I really want to know is how to get the heat into the room instead of up the chimney. Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Carol


----------



## A2Woodburner (Jan 30, 2014)

cp20855 said:


> AZWoodburner, would you mind telling me which Jotul rep went to you house and told you about sealing off the opening with Rock Wool or Stone Wool? (My email is ccleibee@gmail.com if you don't want to put names on this website.)  The rep who came here said that our wood was too wet.  That was at least a year ago, maybe 2 years. Yes, there was a steep learning curve for us in making and maintaining fires in Jotul 550, but we are now proficient at this. However, the darn thing just plain doesn't heat the house or even the room it is in.
> 
> What I really want to know is how to get the heat into the room instead of up the chimney. Any help appreciated!
> 
> ...



I'll send it via email.


----------



## cp20855 (Jan 30, 2014)

Hello everyone,
I was able to speak to our Jotul rep a few minutes ago. He said to check that there is insulation (Rock Wool) around the pipe from the damper to the top of the chimney. I've just left a message for the installers to find out if they did/when they can do this.  

The rep also says he thinks our thermometer is reading much higher than the actual temp of the fire, so I will get a new thermometer asap.  The auto fan just kicked on at reading about 700 degrees.  I don't see the secondary burn, though.

Happy to have any and all suggestions. 

Thanks,
Carol


----------



## hamsey (Jan 31, 2014)

cp, Please keep us informed. Just got my C550 and am having the same issue with no heat. I get secondaries and some heat right in front but 8 feet away, nothing. Wood moisture is 14-18% (fresh cut measured with a general mmd4e moisture meter) at first I thought it was the wood but that is ruled out. I did just install a block off plate. Liner is not insulated but top and bottom of chimney is. I have read the c550 problem thread 3 times. Finally burning how begreen said to with the new stoves. I was keeping my damper open to long. Use to burning the old way. Adjusting to the new EPA stove and am going to see how it goes this weekend. Only get about one or two reloads during the week at night and with the weather and me being old school I am going to blame it on operator error. Time will tell.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Jan 31, 2014)

Keep us posted.  It has been a very steep learning curve for me, and thanks to the folks on this thread about a month ago, I have gotten much better at using this insert.  It takes a good 8 hours for it to heat up my house, and even then, it doesn't live up to my old insert in overall heating my house.  The old school insert and way would take 2-3 hrs to have my house go from 58-72 or more.  No comparison.  But, this insert uses almost no wood, and I am getting better at micromanaging it when I am home from work and throughout the night, or home all day/night on the weekends.  I guess it is just one of those things, and those old school ways are hard to die.  Keep at it Hamsey, and the ones who know on this thread are really really helpful.


----------



## logger (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodstocker said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful replies.
> 
> I maybe wrote the wrong thing.  I don't expect the Jotul to heat my whole house, but it is not even heating the 500 sf room it is in. It has to be blazing to get heat from the blower, and you'd think that room would get pretty warm.


 Your first post said the room its in gets to 80 degrees.  To me, that's pretty darn warm and the stove seems to be doing its job.  You have a lot of space to heat.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Jan 31, 2014)

That doesn't seem right.  The blower on mine turns on quite quickly and I am having no problems with it.  It may not be as strong as my old school insert, but is certainly quieter and seems to work properly.


----------



## bmanke (Feb 14, 2014)

A BIG thank you to all who documented thier installation problems with the Jotul C550. My Jotul was installed this fall and until I read this thread I was VERY disappointed in it and ready to rip it out. It could barely heat a 700 sq ft room in Virginia and burned terribly!  Since I had a wood stove at my previous house I knew something was VERY wrong! I pulled the surround off (very easy just lift it up) and discovered that NO block off plate had been installed in my fireplace! Big wide open hole up the flue to the great outdoors. Based on the advice of this website, I insulated above the block off plate I made as best I could and then I insulated the entire fire box (my fireplace is huge) with Roxul. WOW what a difference! The stove will not maintain the temperature in our entire 3,000 sq fit house on a 25 degree night!! It burns much, much better as well. It now burns with an intensity it simply did not do before. Before I was never able to really close the dampener without losing the fire.

Another big thank you for telling me the heat sensor is near the front of the stove. I use to build my fires starting in the back so it would take forever for the fan to kick on. Now I build them in the front and it comes on about 20 minutes after I start it. THANK YOU!! I also had a problem with the fans vibrating and rattling.

I put a small thin piece of Roxul under each fan. Not only is it significantly quieter - no more random rattles! I still get a little smoke puffing in the room when loading it, and I am hoping insulating the rest of the liner will do the trick. Our chimney is on an outside wall. 

I hope my experience helps someone else - I was ready to sell my Jotul and now I couldn't be happier with it. My installer - he said they forgot the block off plate. Unbelievable.


----------



## BrotherBart (Feb 14, 2014)

Great to hear it.

Hearth.com strikes again.


----------



## Soundchasm (Feb 15, 2014)

bmanke said:


> A BIG thank you to all who documented thier installation problems with the Jotul C550. My Jotul was installed this fall and until I read this thread I was VERY disappointed in it and ready to rip it out. It could barely heat a 700 sq ft room in Virginia and burned terribly!  Since I had a wood stove at my previous house I knew something was VERY wrong! I pulled the surround off (very easy just lift it up) and discovered that NO block off plate had been installed in my fireplace! Big wide open hole up the flue to the great outdoors. Based on the advice of this website, I insulated above the block off plate I made as best I could and then I insulated the entire fire box (my fireplace is huge) with Roxul. WOW what a difference! The stove will not maintain the temperature in our entire 3,000 sq fit house on a 25 degree night!! It burns much, much better as well. It now burns with an intensity it simply did not do before. Before I was never able to really close the dampener without losing the fire.
> 
> Another big thank you for telling me the heat sensor is near the front of the stove. I use to build my fires starting in the back so it would take forever for the fan to kick on. Now I build them in the front and it comes on about 20 minutes after I start it. THANK YOU!! I also had a problem with the fans vibrating and rattling.
> 
> ...


************************************************************************************************************

Thank you so much for this post.  We've been really struggling in our third season.  Wood is good, technique is good, but I can't get temps the others post about.  A lot of work got me up to 650 once, and I had to conclude it was all going out the chimney.

We ought to start a new thread on how to install a blockoff plate, where and how much roxul  for the sides, back and top., what kind of machine will ease stove out, and put it back and see if someone has already done this work and back in.  Our FP is a unit with two open sides (front and left side).  I'd guess I'd rather see the FP cavity lined with copper for something fun to look at with Roxal behind that.

This is hopeful stuff.  I'm staying tuned.  Thanks,
Greg


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 15, 2014)

Glad to hear it is all coming together for you.  I still have my doubts about this unit.  It does not live up to its billing and selling points.  It is not my wood, technique, or anything else we have meticulously gone through here on this thread.  I feel fortunate to be able to get house temp up to 70 and maintain it for barely 1100 SqFt.  Far from what was expected and sold as.  I will check with my chimney guys this spring/summer about insulating around the fireplace box and cavities around the unit itself.  When I have asked in the past about it to several different sources, including the rep who is non existent and worthless, they have all said I don't need it.  Sounds as if I do, and should just go ahead and wrap the whole thing in Roxswul.  Thermometers that have magnets on them, worthless.  I can't get a temp reading past 350, though if I left the vent open for several hours and continued to have heat go up the stack as a regular fireplace does, I am sure I could get decent temp readings.  Next step is to purchase a digital one.  Season is almost over in a couple of months or so, and back at tweaking the set up some more.  

Again, I am glad my initial frustration and post from last year prompted all this information gathering and assistance that Jotul reps and sales point people don't initiate whatsoever.  Glad it is working out for everyone.


----------



## bmanke (Feb 15, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Glad to hear it is all coming together for you.  I still have my doubts about this unit.  It does not live up to its billing and selling points.  It is not my wood, technique, or anything else we have meticulously gone through here on this thread.  I feel fortunate to be able to get house temp up to 70 and maintain it for barely 1100 SqFt.  Far from what was expected and sold as.  I will check with my chimney guys this spring/summer about insulating around the fireplace box and cavities around the unit itself.  When I have asked in the past about it to several different sources, including the rep who is non existent and worthless, they have all said I don't need it.  Sounds as if I do, and should just go ahead and wrap the whole thing in Roxswul.  Thermometers that have magnets on them, worthless.  I can't get a temp reading past 350, though if I left the vent open for several hours and continued to have heat go up the stack as a regular fireplace does, I am sure I could get decent temp readings.  Next step is to purchase a digital one.  Season is almost over in a couple of months or so, and back at tweaking the set up some more.
> 
> Again, I am glad my initial frustration and post from last year prompted all this information gathering and assistance that Jotul reps and sales point people don't initiate whatsoever.  Glad it is working out for everyone.




The season isn't over yet! Go to Lowe's buy one bat of Roxul ($40), insulate your firebox and see how it performs. I insulated my entire firebox. Sides and top - there is no longer any exposed surface of the original fireplace.  It should take you less than a half hour to install the insulation. You can always use the insulation somewhere else if you change your mind. The surround is very easy to take off. It just lifts off. If you can feel cold air like I did when you take it off there is your first big problem! What do you have to lose?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Feb 15, 2014)

bmanke said:


> The season isn't over yet! Go to Lowe's buy one bat of Roxul ($40), insulate your firebox and see how it performs. I insulated my entire firebox. Sides and top - there is no longer any exposed surface of the original fireplace.  It should take you less than a half hour to install the insulation. You can always use the insulation somewhere else if you change your mind. The surround is very easy to take off. It just lifts off. If you can feel cold air like I did when you take it off there is your first big problem! What do you have to lose?



OK.  Thanks!  I'll go and do that and give it a try.  The surround doesn't fit flush up against the brick anyhow.  I have posted that last year, but everyone who chimed in at the time said that it was OK.  When the Rep came out, he said it had nothing to do with the issues either.  I had insulation all around my old one and that helped a lot.  Here's to giving it a go and keep on tweaking this high maintenance unit called Jotul Rockland 550.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 16, 2014)

I finally have been able to purchase a big bat of Roxul, and insulated my entire firebox, including several layers just laying on the top of the insert/unit.  While it smells like one would suspect (newish), and the unit itself feels much much hotter, it is not heating my house and the temp results are still the same.  It has been about 4 hours since I cleaned everything up, added the insulation, and lit the fire.  My house has gone from 61 to 68 degrees and that is where it is staying.  It is a bit warmer outside (26) than it has been over this winter and quite sunny.  The wood I am using is incredibly dry and all mixed hardwood.  Technique has been all tweaked, etc. from everyone's input here on this thread, and the result is still marginal and falls way below what is/was expected and sold as.  Chimney and stack has been all taken care of and brought up to code, insulating blanket and all.  Again, my house is just barely over 1000 SqFt ranch with a more open floor plan than most.  Last summer, I put in 5k worth of energy upgrades/insulation, etc.  Final conclusion...this Jotul Rockland C550 is a worthless pile of crud and I am now so utterly and completely disgusted with wasting my money over a year ago with such a purchase that I am now stuck with for the duration.  Jotul will NEVER get my endorsement for this unit.  I will tell everyone I know who asks NEVER to buy this unit and to find something else, and maybe even a different company to deal with.  Thanks again to everyone who has assisted and lent their advice and experience.  We all did the best we could with what we had to work with.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 16, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your frustrations. I thought you had posted better results earlier.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 16, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> Sorry to hear about your frustrations. I thought you had posted better results earlier.



I thought they were getting a bit better as well, but not really.  Just wishful thinking and hope beyond reality.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 16, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I thought they were getting a bit better as well, but not really.  Just wishful thinking and hope beyond reality.



I didn't reread every last post in the thread so if you've already answered my mistake but how hot is the stove getting? Also do you have cathedral ceilings? I get pretty good heat out of mine. I mean I have no problem believing a flush mount stove has limitations but seems like you should be able to heat 1000 sg ft w/o much trouble at all.

I know you've answered all these questions an stuck w/ it so I understand why you're annoyed.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 16, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> I didn't reread every last post in the thread so if you've already answered my mistake but how hot is the stove getting? Also do you have cathedral ceilings? I get pretty good heat out of mine. I mean I have no problem believing a flush mount stove has limitations but seems like you should be able to heat 1000 sg ft w/o much trouble at all.
> 
> I know you've answered all these questions an stuck w/ it so I understand why you're annoyed.



It's OK.  I don't mind answering and talking about how disappointing this whole experience has been over the last 2 burn seasons.  I don't have a decent thermometer to gauge how hot the stove is actually getting.  The magnetic one I mount where advised by one of the posts above doesn't work and cuts out around 300.  I imagine it gets up to about 500-600 or so.  Just haven't invested in one of those digital ones yet for true accuracy.  If I leave the damper open for a long time, and/or crack the door open for about in hour, I get the insert really really super hot.  But then I was advised when I did this that I was losing all the heat up the chimney, just as a regular fireplace would act.  So as soon as the fan goes on, which takes about 20-30 mins, I start slowly dampening it down, and after an hour or so, I have it half to 2/3-3/4 shut down.  Lots of heat and output can be felt in the room, and house temp rises, but only to about 68, and that is where it ends.  Very rarely can I get it to 70-74.

I agree with you, I should be able to get this house up to 72-78 with no worries whatsoever.  And that is what was sold to me about this unit as well.  "You should have no problems heating your house as your old one did."  With all the upgrades to my chimney, and stack, and firebox, and insulating liner on the stack, etc. plus the initial cost and cost of installation, I am into this worthless piece of garbage for almost 5 grand now.  What a waste!  No, I can't afford to change it out.  The only upside is I use way less wood.  And it keeps this place between 62-68 on average, so 10 degrees lower than the old one.  And yes, I know...I can't compare the two.  It is like apples and oranges.  But still...


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 16, 2014)

Hmm, I sometimes keep my door open for a couple minutes like 2-3. If you leave the primary air open you _are_ sending heat up the chimney. I can tell you for sure that as I cut the primary air back the stove temp goes up. This will be true as long as the fire is getting sufficient air so there is a limit. I'm getting good secondary burn within 20 min in most cases and that's where you get serious heat. Get a stove top thermometer that works, you may not be getting nearly as hot as you think. As has been said this stove can take being hot like 700+.

If you cannot get the fire to burn w/o keeping the door open or if cutting the air causes the fire to go out then you may have a draft problem. Poor draft will also kills secondaries. How tall is your chimney?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 16, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> Hmm, I sometimes keep my door open for a couple minutes like 2-3. If you leave the primary air open you _are_ sending heat up the chimney. I can tell you for sure that as I cut the primary air back the stove temp goes up. This will be true as long as the fire is getting sufficient air so there is a limit. I'm getting good secondary burn within 20 min in most cases and that's where you get serious heat. Get a stove top thermometer that works, you may not be getting nearly as hot as you think. As has been said this stove can take being hot like 700+.
> 
> If you cannot get the fire to burn w/o keeping the door open or if cutting the air causes the fire to go out then you may have a draft problem. Poor draft will also kills secondaries. How tall is your chimney?



I do cut the primary air flow back as soon as it gets hot enough to kick on the fan.  Then I begin to cut it back, which as I said, is in about 20-30 mins or so.  The chimney is clear and there is no draft problem.  With the stack extension I had put on last year, it is now 16', which is one foot over the minimum from the installation instructions.  Thanks again for your input, but pretty much everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb.  

Where do you get this stove top thermometer?  What is the model/make/etc.?  I have been advised earlier on to get a digital one, but have no clue as to what make/model/etc. and haven't really made the time to investigate this *one more *micromanagement thing further.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 16, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I do cut the primary air flow back as soon as it gets hot enough to kick on the fan.  Then I begin to cut it back, which as I said, is in about 20-30 mins or so.  The chimney is clear and there is no draft problem.  With the stack extension I had put on last year, it is now 16', which is one foot over the minimum from the installation instructions.  Thanks again for your input, but pretty much everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb.
> 
> Where do you get this stove top thermometer?  What is the model/make/etc.?  I have been advised earlier on to get a digital one, but have no clue as to what make/model/etc. and haven't really made the time to investigate this *one more *micromanagement thing further.



A2 I know you've put the time in and I don't expect that you're going to have some miracle at this point. On the other hand if you're not at the stove temps you think you are then you may be able to get a some more out of it and maybe that's enough to make your situation tolerable to you even if you're not doing handstands.

Any stove place will have a magnetic stove top thermos that read to 900. A lot of people seem to like the Condors I think mines a Rutland. Put it right in the air vent a few inches back. You won't be able to read it easily but its the only way to get a decent reading. I use a flashlight to read mine. I also have a Harbor Freight IR which I use sometimes.

I'd suggest you cut the air before the fan kicks on if you can. Cut the air based on what the fire is doing and run the fans based on what the thermo reads, two separate things. Lastly you are only 1' above the minimum on your chimney. Between that and what you describe I'm suspicious your draft is not as good as it could be.

To give you an idea, with a decent sized fire, the primary air enters my stove well enough that it whistles and I usually have to cut the air 3/4 or even 7/8 at some point during the burn, It doesn't sound like you are able to do that. Also as I said draft is what pulls in secondary air. You have no control of that but if your draft is marginal you may not be getting good enough pull to fire the secondaries and get that "gates of hell" thing going on. From what you say I think a few more feet of pipe may really help but get the thermo first and see if you can get the top up to 650-700 consistently, that's key.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks again.  I have a Rutland spring loaded thermometer, and tried to put it in the place where you advised several months ago, and could not get any kind of read on it, nor could I even see the thing in that location, flashlight or not.  Heck, I even used a small dental type mirror to try and view the temp readings.  The thing never really ever got above 300 degrees or so.  Finally, I just gave up on it since it really wasn't any kind of read or anything useful.  Even at the hottest I could get the insert, the thermometer never climbed higher than 300+.  Essentially I never got a decent reading.  

According to the Jotul rep last spring, my chimney height is now fine, and I have done all the other recommendations he made.  Then I have also done what the chimney specialists have done to make everything all up to code and compliant.  The height is fine.  I just swept it a month ago or so when there was a slight warm up here in Michigan.  Primary air doesn't whistle, but I can hear it rushing in and make that whooshing noise of it being drawn in well.  Plus, there is no way feasible for me to add on even more pipe to what I have already extended it too.  It just is not going to happen and can't make it happen, all based on the roof line, etc.

Again, all has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and made compliant and this thing just is not working up to what you are experiencing with yours.  I have a very hard time believing that any of these other *fine tuning and adjustments * are going to make a major difference like you are saying.  All this continual *micromanaging *of this unit is way over the top of what should be and what needs to be and what is expected to be of what I need to do to have it operate properly and as advertised and sold as.

Know that I am not taking any of this out on you.  It is just utter frustration and disillusionment coming through with something that shouldn't be this way.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 16, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Thanks again.  I have a Rutland spring loaded thermometer, and tried to put it in the place where you advised several months ago, and could not get any kind of read on it, nor could I even see the thing in that location, flashlight or not.  Heck, I even used a small dental type mirror to try and view the temp readings.  The thing never really ever got above 300 degrees or so.  Finally, I just gave up on it since it really wasn't any kind of read or anything useful.  Even at the hottest I could get the insert, the thermometer never climbed higher than 300+.  Essentially I never got a decent reading.
> 
> According to the Jotul rep last spring, my chimney height is now fine, and I have done all the other recommendations he made.  Then I have also done what the chimney specialists have done to make everything all up to code and compliant.  The height is fine.  I just swept it a month ago or so when there was a slight warm up here in Michigan.  Primary air doesn't whistle, but I can hear it rushing in and make that whooshing noise of it being drawn in well.  Plus, there is no way feasible for me to add on even more pipe to what I have already extended it too.  It just is not going to happen and can't make it happen, all based on the roof line, etc.
> 
> ...



I know your just PO'd so I get it. Gotta figure out why your stove top thermo isn't reading above 300. If its a faulty thermo then that's one thing. If the reading is anywhere near accurate then you will be able to get more heat out of it then you are now. Thermo placement for me is 2-3" inched in and placed so as temp rises the needle points to the front. If it was the other way it would be tough or impossible to read. Did you ever do a kiln dried wood test?


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 17, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I finally have been able to purchase a big bat of Roxul, and insulated my entire firebox, including several layers just laying on the top of the insert/unit.  While it smells like one would suspect (newish), and the unit itself feels much much hotter, it is not heating my house and the temp results are still the same.  It has been about 4 hours since I cleaned everything up, added the insulation, and lit the fire.  My house has gone from 61 to 68 degrees and that is where it is staying.  It is a bit warmer outside (26) than it has been over this winter and quite sunny.  The wood I am using is incredibly dry and all mixed hardwood.  Technique has been all tweaked, etc. from everyone's input here on this thread, and the result is still marginal and falls way below what is/was expected and sold as.  Chimney and stack has been all taken care of and brought up to code, insulating blanket and all.  Again, my house is just barely over 1000 SqFt ranch with a more open floor plan than most.  Last summer, I put in 5k worth of energy upgrades/insulation, etc.  Final conclusion...this Jotul Rockland C550 is a worthless pile of crud and I am now so utterly and completely disgusted with wasting my money over a year ago with such a purchase that I am now stuck with for the duration.  Jotul will NEVER get my endorsement for this unit.  I will tell everyone I know who asks NEVER to buy this unit and to find something else, and maybe even a different company to deal with.  Thanks again to everyone who has assisted and lent their advice and experience.  We all did the best we could with what we had to work with.



A2W,
I really sympathize with you.  I have had a hard time getting !HEAT! out of my 550.  I've got an old freestander in the basement and three good splits does a nice job there, and the basement starting point is 55-58 degrees.  It can easily get that space uncomfortable.  Sometimes I wonder since there are no big windows if that might be a difference.

I think you're burning correctly.  Big fire, bleed off heat.  Who knew this takes an engineering marvel?

I commend you for getting all the mods done so quickly.  I won't get to them till summer.  The hottest I've ever seen my 550 is 650F.  That was with the blower "off" full of Osage.  Temp dropped to 550F max with the blower on.  I know others have struggled with this unit but some seem to succeed like Jatoxico, and I'm glad he shares his experience.  But what the heck is the difference?  I mean seriously, it's like the gas mileage in my 02 Tacoma V6.  16 MPG in town driving like Grandma Moses?  It's not like I'm burning rubber or even hearing racing noises.  What is that engine _doing_ with the gasoline?  But I digress...

I read a seemingly scholarly paper on geo-thermal heat pumps.  Based on installation costs and inflated ISO efficiencies, the conclusion was to improve a structure's envelope and stick to an existing system if there were no problems with the unit.  Maybe our longest-term solution is to start to look more closely at our houses. I know that as I have more birthdays, I know my definition of cold gets warmer and my definition of warm gets colder, or something like that...


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 17, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> I know your just PO'd so I get it. Gotta figure out why your stove top thermo isn't reading above 300. If its a faulty thermo then that's one thing. If the reading is anywhere near accurate then you will be able to get more heat out of it then you are now. Thermo placement for me is 2-3" inched in and placed so as temp rises the needle points to the front. If it was the other way it would be tough or impossible to read. Did you ever do a kiln dried wood test?



I am almost sure it is a faulty thermo, and have to get another more reliable one.  I have never done a kiln dried wood test.  Not really sure where to even buy some.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 17, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> A2W,
> I really sympathize with you.  I have had a hard time getting !HEAT! out of my 550.  I've got an old freestander in the basement and three good splits does a nice job there, and the basement starting point is 55-58 degrees.  It can easily get that space uncomfortable.  Sometimes I wonder since there are no big windows if that might be a difference.
> 
> I think you're burning correctly.  Big fire, bleed off heat.  Who knew this takes an engineering marvel?
> ...



Thanks for this, but last summer, I put into my house over 5k worth of energy efficiency systems and upgrades dealing with insulation, sealing off areas where air leaks occur, upgrading windows, and more.  My house is as best as it can be right now.


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Mar 17, 2014)

After 3+ years my folks are giving up on their 550.  For a "big" insert it's just not that big.


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 17, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Thanks for this, but last summer, I put into my house over 5k worth of energy efficiency systems and upgrades dealing with insulation, sealing off areas where air leaks occur, upgrading windows, and more.  My house is as best as it can be right now.



You've literally done your best so this must be doubly frustrating.  I forgot to mention (getting back to being off-topic), that the scholarly geo-thermal article concluded there was no reason for a residence to go with geo-thermal considering the low cost of mini-split systems.  I know they're not a single-digit temp solution, but the reason we're all here is that there must be more than one way to skin a cat (staying warm w/o going broke).


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 23, 2014)

I have been minding the thermometer more this week as initially suggested by rkofler several pages back.  The insert gets up to somewhere between 400 and almost 600.  Now, here is my new question.  The fan kicks on and the temp on the thermometer goes way down to something like 300 or less.  Am I not supposed to run the fan?  That is counter productive since I need all that hot to be pushed out of the room and to the rest of the house.   

The other thing...I was so fed up last weekend that I called Jotul N.A. in Maine and I got to vent out my complaints to someone there.  He was on it, and said he wants to see this through and make it successful.  I got the name and number of the Jotul rep here in Michigan.  Called him up and left a VM, including what has been going on since he came out a year ago and gave all this reasoning as to why it wasn't performing.  I never got a return call.  What I did get, a couple of days later, was an email from the owner of the business I bought this pile of garbage from.  When asked why the rep didn't contact me, since I have no beef with that business, I was told that is not how they handle these things, and not the way the rep and company works.  I called the rep and spoke with him directly, asking why he never returned my call and I have to get an email and set up an appt a *MONTH* from now, and his response was that I bought the insert from the business and he wants them involved since they are the dealer.  And that is not how they operate.  Even when I said if I wanted to involve the business, I would have called them, not him.  But again, the business is the dealer and they should be the one's handling this, so to speak.  The rep is sure there is *NOTHING *wrong with the insert based on my description of what is happening and the methods I am using, so my thoughts are this is one of those "operator error" things once again, and I will just have to live with a substandard insert that never has lived up to its billing.  I am really tired of hearing how this Jotul C550 is the best selling unit they make.  My response is so what...it is not working for me.  And the other thing I am tired of hearing from these guys is that the Jotul C550 should be cooking me out of my house, etc. with the way everything is set up and the size of my house, etc.

Is this standard operating procedure from Jotul reps and the home Jotul N.A. headquarters to not get back with the customer who is having such issues with one of there products?  I have never been in a situation such as this where a product I have purchase is such a pile of junk and contacting everyone up the chain just does not respond with customer service.  Am I missing something here?  Especially since I have been so vocal to all parties that this unit is not working and is substandard.


----------



## rkofler (Mar 23, 2014)

BIG difference between 400 and 600 degrees. I don't run fan at high speed until temp is more like 700. Run fan on low while temp is building. If you can't achieve 700 then I suspect your fuel. Get a nice, hot coal bed, load in some good fuel. Air fully open for about 20 minutes, leave door closed. After 20 min with good, close air a quarter. Another 10 min or so, close halfway. Temp should be rising by now. If it's not, again, I would question your wood. Especially since you mention keeping door open for so long. I never leave open for more than a minute or so. If you are having to leave door open for longer than that to maintain flame, your wood is no good.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 23, 2014)

rkofler said:


> BIG difference between 400 and 600 degrees. I don't run fan at high speed until temp is more like 700. Run fan on low while temp is building. If you can't achieve 700 then I suspect your fuel. Get a nice, hot coal bed, load in some good fuel. Air fully open for about 20 minutes, leave door closed. After 20 min with good, close air a quarter. Another 10 min or so, close halfway. Temp should be rising by now. If it's not, again, I would question your wood. Especially since you mention keeping door open for so long. I never leave open for more than a minute or so. If you are having to leave door open for longer than that to maintain flame, your wood is no good.



Earlier in burn season, I was keeping door cracked open for a while, but based on what you have advised, and others, I no longer do that, nor do I need to do that.  I have been following the EXACT procedure what you are mentioning here since at least the beginning of December or whenever I initially posted this season.  I have never been able to achieve 700.  It is *NOT*, I repeat *NOT *the wood/fuel I am burning.  That has been gone over time and time again, and the wood/fuel I am using is *NOT *what is causing all these issues.  I even had to buy a couple of face cords over the last 4-6 weeks since I couldn't get to my outside wood stack due to all the snow.  And that seller's wood is more than stellar, with a very large percentage of his almost 1000 full cord stored inside a huge pole barn.  And the wood of my own I have used this season was stacked inside my garage since mid/end of June 2013.  Before that, it was outside along my garage covered.

This thing is garbage and for example, since 9 AM, my house has gone from 59 to 66, and it is now almost 1:30!  But I will try running the fan on low when it kicks on due to temp in the insert for a while and see if I can build temp even more, and go from there.


----------



## begreen (Mar 23, 2014)

If I let the house get so cold it would take hours for our stove to bring it up to temp. That's because one is not just heating the air, but the mass of the house and its contents too. Try burning 24/7 so that in the morning you are bringing the house temp from 66 to 74.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 23, 2014)

begreen said:


> If I let the house get so cold it would take hours for our stove to bring it up to temp. That's because one is not just heating the air, but the mass of the house and its contents too. Try burning 24/7 so that in the morning you are bringing the house temp from 66 to 74.



I DO burn 24/7!  This was just one of those unusual mornings where temps dipped below 60-62.  I have run my furnace this year more than I have in the past 5 altogether for this VERY reason...to make sure the entire mass of my house is warm so this piece of worthless garbage of an insert has some sort of chance to do what it is intended to do.

And my house temp will rarely exceed 68, even when it is above 30 outside like it has been lately, and the sun shining, making some passive solar heat.  Usually, later in the day, the house temp rises into the low 70s due to outside temp almost to 40 or above and it has been sunny all day.  But that is not the insert making it happen.

Now, would someone answer my question regarding standard customer service operating procedure of Jotul rep?


----------



## begreen (Mar 23, 2014)

The house sounds like it is not holding the heat. It sounds like a record cold winter, particularly in MI is finding this weakness. I feel for you, this has been a brutal winter for the midwest.  Perhaps the stove is not garbage, it's just not able to keep up with the heat loss of the house? It is standard customer service for most stove manufacturers to want the dealer to deal with product issues.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 23, 2014)

begreen said:


> The house sounds like it is not holding the heat. It sounds like a record cold winter, particularly in MI is finding this weakness. I feel for you, this has been a brutal winter for the midwest.  Perhaps the stove is not garbage, it's just not able to keep up with the heat loss of the house? It is standard customer service for most stove manufacturers to want the dealer to deal with product issues.



I would accept that about the house but I just dumped over 5k into home energy improvements last summer with insulation, foam around the basement footing, sealing off windows, etc. new and added roof and ridge vents, and more.  So that is not it either.  I have already gone through this and discussed this at length on this thread at various points during this burning season.  This house holds heat more than it ever did over the last 15 years or so.  Can't imagine what it would have been like this winter had I not done all that energy work.  Insert is a pile of garbage.  I have done absolutely EVERYTHING suggested and advised by folks here on this thread, as well as rep when he came out near the end of last April to check out what may be happening.  There is very little, if any improvement.  Otherwise, I wouldn't be complaining so bitterly.

Thanks for the response about the reps from the stove manufacturers.


----------



## begreen (Mar 23, 2014)

That's got to be very frustrating. I'm wondering if the new roof vents are creating a negative pressure in the house. Are there a lot of recessed can lights or other penetrations in ceilings? Attic door?

What are your choices now? Would the dealer consider taking back the insert on a trade? Do they sell any alternative that would work better for you?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 23, 2014)

begreen said:


> What are your choices now? Would the dealer consider taking back the insert on a trade? Do they sell any alternative that would work better for you?



I have no clue.  I just don't understand why I need to wait three weeks to get some customer service, especially since I have been doing nothing but working at this so hard to make this thing perform up to its standards.  

My immediate guess is that we would have to go through this insert to find out exactly why it is underachieving so much.


----------



## rkofler (Mar 24, 2014)

How are you loading the stove? Is it packed full? Maybe some pictures or videos would help the experts here? Take a pic of your coal bed, then a picture of a loaded stove, then a pic of some secondaries. Are you seeing secondaries? Once this thing gets going those pipes up top should look like flame throwers. I understand your frustration, but please recognize that there are MANY that are heating their homes quite well with this unit. We just have to figure out what is different about your setup. I just have a hard time accepting that it is the stove itself. I have a 2300 sq. ft ranch and have only burned about 250 gallons of heating oil this brutal winter, and house is typically above 70. Probably would have burned at least 800 gallons without insert. Not trying to minimize your situation, just saying the unit is capable.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 24, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I have never been able to achieve 700. It is NOT, I repeat NOT the wood/fuel I am burning. That has been gone over time and time again, and the wood/fuel I am using is NOT what is causing all these issues. I even had to buy a couple of face cords over the last 4-6 weeks since I couldn't get to my outside wood stack due to all the snow. And that seller's wood is more than stellar, with a very large percentage of his almost 1000 full cord stored inside a huge pole barn. And the wood of my own I have used this season was stacked inside my garage since mid/end of June 2013.


A2 there are some questions I still have not heard ans to.1) are you able to get good secondary burn (gates of hell) or not? 2) did you get a new thermo? If you are not able to get 700 it needs to determined whether or not it's a true reading.

If it's a true reading and you can't get to 700 even for a short time there really isn't too many things it could be. Either operator error, poor fuel, maybe bad draft. As an example I am into burning some marginal wood since I'm close to out. I tossed in a big ugly of 1.5 yr old oak yesterday w/ some other so so stuff. It burned OK but had to keep the air up higher than usual, got almost no secondary burn and barely broke 400 degrees. Fine for chilly 40 degree day but would have had 750 and the air closed if wood was the drier stuff I was using earlier this year.

Posts some pics and what's the length of the chimney?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

rkofler said:


> How are you loading the stove? Is it packed full? Maybe some pictures or videos would help the experts here? Take a pic of your coal bed, then a picture of a loaded stove, then a pic of some secondaries. Are you seeing secondaries? Once this thing gets going those pipes up top should look like flame throwers. I understand your frustration, but please recognize that there are MANY that are heating their homes quite well with this unit. We just have to figure out what is different about your setup. I just have a hard time accepting that it is the stove itself. I have a 2300 sq. ft ranch and have only burned about 250 gallons of heating oil this brutal winter, and house is typically above 70. Probably would have burned at least 800 gallons without insert. Not trying to minimize your situation, just saying the unit is capable.



I pack it as full as I can for the night (especially).  And I try to cross the wood as best as possible with N-S stack then E-W stack.  This isn't always as achievable as my wood was cut for the old insert I had been using over the last 10+ years.  But I do as best I can.  I will try to post some pics and vids up in the next days or so.  That is a good idea.

As far as secondary burn, I am not getting very much in the description you are saying where the pipes look like flame throwers.  There is some secondary burn, but not like that.  It took me 2 hours this morning (I woke up at 4 for some reason) and worried the this thing until 6 when it appeared to be really very hot.  The thermostat on the blower is now not working, so I think that allowed the unit to get up to almost 600.  When I turned the fan on manual, and gradually increased the speed, the temp on the unit went down dramatically.  I had to leave for work a bit after 6, so I didn't get to see how it was doing throughout the day.  

It has been about 1/2 hr to 45 mins now that I re lit the fire, no coals, just fine ash, and it is around 600.  I have shut it down 1/3-1/2 and will see.  The fan hasn't turned on automatically (yet), so we shall see what happens over the next hour or so as I damper it down more and more and turn the blower on.  

It also should be noted that as I close the damper down, even 1/2 closed, I can hear air whooshing in, even if it is at a bit of a reduced rate from all the way open.  The Jotul rep and dealer will be here to check everything out on April 2nd.  I am glad you are having, as well as others, such great success with this thing.  I am not, and have not, no matter how closely I have followed everyone's advice and directions here on this thread.  I do appreciate everyone's input and have said so time and time again.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> A2 there are some questions I still have not heard ans to.1) are you able to get good secondary burn (gates of hell) or not? 2) did you get a new thermo? If you are not able to get 700 it needs to determined whether or not it's a true reading.
> 
> If it's a true reading and you can't get to 700 even for a short time there really isn't too many things it could be. Either operator error, poor fuel, maybe bad draft. As an example I am into burning some marginal wood since I'm close to out. I tossed in a big ugly of 1.5 yr old oak yesterday w/ some other so so stuff. It burned OK but had to keep the air up higher than usual, got almost no secondary burn and barely broke 400 degrees. Fine for chilly 40 degree day but would have had 750 and the air closed if wood was the drier stuff I was using earlier this year.
> 
> Posts some pics and what's the length of the chimney?



Answer to Question #1:  I am not able to get a good secondary burn, as in gates of hell or flame thrower or whatever you want to call it.

Answer to Question #2:  I did not get a new thermo yet (haven't been able to carve out the time...life, you know), but am seeing some progress with the one I have getting close to 600 or so.  Probably is not a true reading.  Note that as soon as the blower kicks on, the temp goes down drastically.  One can almost watch the needle move it is that quick.  And hot air is just being forced out.

So it must be operator error since I have only been following almost to a "T" all of your comments (and others posting) and still not getting results.  Once again, it is not my fuel.  Not sure about bad draft since the chimney is clean.  My original chimney is 11', and we had to add on another 4-5' of stove pipe to make the minimum requirement spec'd by Jotul.  

I hear what you are saying about the wood and its condition/age/moisture content/etc.  I can really tell when I put a piece in there that isn't as up to par as the others.  It really affects the overall performance until it is burned through, or adjustments are made.  

Also should be noted that I very infrequently have to clean the glass since it is burning well enough to "wash" almost all of the smoke/creosote(?) build up that can form on the inside of the glass.  This is actually one of the two or so good things about this insert.


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 24, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I am not able to get a good secondary burn, as in gates of hell or flame thrower or whatever you want to call it.



When the secondaries kick in its noticeable, no mistaking it. The only time I can drop my temps rapidly with fan is when the unit is starting up from cold or burning down. When stove is hot w/ secondaries going, I can often crank the fan and still have the temp go up. A drop in temp of a few degrees is understandable, a rapid drop from 600 to 300 w/ a fresh load of good wood is not my experience anyway.

The wood has to be mentioned because it's such a common problem. The fact that your glass stays clean is some evidence that the wood is OK, but don't absolutely rule that out for the time being. You say you bought wood from a dealer recently and that its good? Where are you located?; cause let's just say, that's uncommon .

The fact that you had to add to the stack and that it's still just w/in spec w/ poor secondaries could point to draft. Have you dropped the baffles to clean it out and checked the flue and cap? I've had a fair amount of buildup on the cast iron baffles especially my first season.

Try to post pics of the outside w/ roof line and so forth. It's above my pay grade but others here know that stuff good and what the impact on draft could be. I can say good draft is required for secondary air/burn.

Puzzler, need some photos.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

Been firing now for just about an hour and 15 or so.  Got up temp up to where it just touched 700...FINALLY!  No blower turning on, though it did start up between 550-600.  Now turned the fan on, and have closed the air intake flow to 1/4-1/3.  Insert is stacked with 4 year old maple that is dry as death valley and weighs almost like balsa, but not that light.  Got some semblance of flame thrower/gates of hell secondary, but only through maybe a third of the tubes.  Now that it shut down a bit and blower on, temp is dropping like a stone and in just the 5-10 mins is down to 500.  I can feel and smell that it is hot though, like really hot, as it should be.  But again, no secondary burn as you both describe.  We'll see how this lasts.  I have to take off for a few hours around 6:30.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> When the secondaries kick in its noticeable, no mistaking it. The only time I can drop my temps rapidly with fan is when the unit is starting up from cold or burning down. When stove is hot w/ secondaries going, I can often crank the fan and still have the temp go up. A drop in temp of a few degrees is understandable, a rapid drop from 600 to 300 w/ a fresh load of good wood is not my experience anyway.
> 
> *Not my experience.  Wish it was.*
> 
> ...


----------



## jatoxico (Mar 24, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Been firing now for just about an hour and 15 or so.  Got up temp up to where it just touched 700...FINALLY!  No blower turning on, though it did start up between 550-600.  Now turned the fan on, and have closed the air intake flow to 1/4-1/3.  Insert is stacked with 4 year old maple that is dry as death valley and weighs almost like balsa, but not that light.  Got some semblance of flame thrower/gates of hell secondary, but only through maybe a third of the tubes.  Now that it shut down a bit and blower on, temp is dropping like a stone and in just the 5-10 mins is down to 500.  I can feel and smell that it is hot though, like really hot, as it should be.  But again, no secondary burn as you both describe.  We'll see how this lasts.  I have to take off for a few hours around 6:30.



IMO you were just getting there . As the wood heats more and more gasses will come off which feeds the secondaries. Shutting the air down a bit more at that stage may be in order. Just a test for next time, continue to shut air down a bit more. There is a limit but the more you can get the secondaries vs feeding primary air the better at least at this stage sort of as a learning exercise so you can see what it takes.

It's counter intuitive but so long as the wood is good shutting the air will raise temp (to a point). I like that you could _smell_ the heat this time .


----------



## begreen (Mar 24, 2014)

Good winter firewood is usually dense and heavy, even when totally dry. Is this soft maple? Or maybe poplar?


----------



## rkofler (Mar 24, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> I pack it as full as I can for the night (especially).  And I try to cross the wood as best as possible with N-S stack then E-W stack.  This isn't always as achievable as my wood was cut for the old insert I had been using over the last 10+ years.  But I do as best I can.  I will try to post some pics and vids up in the next days or so.  That is a good idea.
> 
> As far as secondary burn, I am not getting very much in the description you are saying where the pipes look like flame throwers.  There is some secondary burn, but not like that.  It took me 2 hours this morning (I woke up at 4 for some reason) and worried the this thing until 6 when it appeared to be really very hot.  The thermostat on the blower is now not working, so I think that allowed the unit to get up to almost 600.  When I turned the fan on manual, and gradually increased the speed, the temp on the unit went down dramatically.  I had to leave for work a bit after 6, so I didn't get to see how it was doing throughout the day.
> 
> ...



By criss crossing the wood you should get some serious heat, but also a reduced burn time. For a longer burn you want to stack it all one way trying to fit all the pieces together, almost making it like one giant block of wood. The less air in between pieces=longer burn time. Is anyone loading during the day? If you are loading at 6am I suspect by 10am your temps will be dropping.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

begreen said:


> Good winter firewood is usually dense and heavy, even when totally dry. Is this soft maple? Or maybe poplar?



It is maple, not poplar.  This was a huge silver maple my neighbor took down about 4 years ago.  Maybe 5.  Really...I have been heating my house with wood for almost 10 years now, and did so as well for over 10 years in my early 20s-30s.  I cut, split, and stack all my wood myself.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 24, 2014)

I have been home for about 40 mins and have re fed the insert and big bed of coals.  Temp is about 650 now, and continuing to climb.  Started at somewhere around maybe 400 or so.  No blower on yet.  Just letting this thing heat up to the max like you both advise/instruct.  House was 65 when I left between 6:15-6:30.  Was 64 when I got back after 3+hours, and blower was off due to thermostat working itself.  Maybe it was just some temporary thing where it was cutting out when I was running at lower temps.  I never got a chance to see how high house temp got before fire started to cool back down.  Let's see for the night now.


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 25, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Been firing now for just about an hour and 15 or so.  Got up temp up to where it just touched 700...FINALLY!  No blower turning on, though it did start up between 550-600.  Now turned the fan on, and have closed the air intake flow to 1/4-1/3.  Insert is stacked with 4 year old maple that is dry as death valley and weighs almost like balsa, but not that light.  Got some semblance of flame thrower/gates of hell secondary, but only through maybe a third of the tubes.  Now that it shut down a bit and blower on, temp is dropping like a stone and in just the 5-10 mins is down to 500.  I can feel and smell that it is hot though, like really hot, as it should be.  But again, no secondary burn as you both describe.  We'll see how this lasts.  I have to take off for a few hours around 6:30.



A2W, I have to believe if the glass is clean that the wood is fine.  I can get secondaries, but I have to induce them and they aren't self-sustaining, but they do seem to be the best theoretical burn, I suppose.  I have never stuffed my 550 to the gills.  And it is frustrating when 2-3 splits in the old beater downstairs gets the job done.  I don't blame you one bit in your frustration.  You are showing the patience of Job and real diligence towards solutions.  I'm watching your progress closely.  Here's a vid of some secondaries.  At 3:20 there's a quick glimpse of the mini-"flame-thrower" out the tubes.



I have gotten some dramatic ones, and my favorite is called "The Dryer".  Flame detaches from the logs and rolls horizontally at the window.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 25, 2014)

Thank you for posting that vid, Soundchasm.  It looks much the same as mine and the fires I have going in this unit.  Since yesterday, I have restocked from coals, 2 fires.  It is taking just over an hour to go from 250 to 600-650.  I can't really hang around to micromanage it to 700 or +.  The damper is being played around a bit and is fine.  Air intake is good.  Everything is good.  It is really very very hot.  I can feel how blazing hot the insert is just getting near it.  Even the Galileo on top of the hearth indicates it is really hot.  Then I turn the blower on and it quickly drops to 400-500.  House begins to heat back up once again, but here is the rub...Once house temp is up to 68, that is where it stays.  It should be way into the 70s with this kind of output, etc.  It was 63-64 when I started on it this morning.  The stove temp is remaining steady at around 500.  Before leaving for work, it may have been even pushing higher.  House still a steady 68.  It is going to be a long day/evening, so the nice bed of coals will more than likely be gone for the most part when I get home, but at least the insert is functioning now up to capacity.  Still, this thing has been over promised and under delivered.  

Thanks for your support.  I will try to post up pics and movies soon so you all can see.


----------



## rkofler (Mar 25, 2014)

Sounds like you might just be "running out of gas". You have to pack as much of that firebox with fuel as you can. If you are always criss crossing then you are definitely not filling the firebox. There is a lot of air space when you load like that. You said you are burning 24/7, but do you need a match to get going again? If so, you are not really burning 24/7. Would love to see a picture of your "packed" stove.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 25, 2014)

rkofler said:


> Sounds like you might just be "running out of gas". You have to pack as much of that firebox with fuel as you can. If you are always criss crossing then you are definitely not filling the firebox. There is a lot of air space when you load like that. You said you are burning 24/7, but do you need a match to get going again? If so, you are not really burning 24/7. Would love to see a picture of your "packed" stove.



I haven't been criss crossing as much as may be eluded too.  Maybe I haven't been clear enough about that.  Most of my splits are too long to criss cross.  It is only when I can.  I was encouraged last year to stack as best as I can the firebox that way.  When stocked full, it is probably 95+% of the time length wise, so there is really one big mass, as you advise.

I don't usually need a match to re light the fire.  It all depends on how soon I can get home after work.  Most of the time, there are coals left over, enough to put a couple pieces of fat wood down, with larger kindling on top of that in order to get things roaring, and pretty soon afterwards, move up in size from there.  Once in a while, I need to get a match on it, but that is only when I have been gone from my house for 10-12 hours or more, and can't get there to monitor it and manage it back up again.  I am 52, work full time and then some, and have no one else in my house.

I will do my best to take a pic/movie this evening after the day is done, and post it so you can see.


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 25, 2014)

A2W, when my basement stove hits 500, it's t-shirt time.  75+ degrees and I crack a basement vent window to feed it.  When the 550 hits 500, it's warm nearby the stove.  My ceiling is a comfortable 80 degrees, but the room tops out around 68 as you describe.  You've been over this top to bottom several times.  I was hoping for a radical improvement since you've done everything I've read about and plan to do.  In the big 550 thread, there were many who couldn't get the heat they needed out of the unit.  Then there were the stories about insulation/blockoff plates saving the day.  

In the mitigation department, I've been doing some calculations that indicate the unit will pay for itself in year four.  If you are comfortable with it, a Sooteater will save you another $150-200 a year and also clue you into how you're burning and wood quality when you evaluate the amount and type of creosote.  So if we have to start over, the only thing we've lost is 3-4 years.  That's pretty bad, but not fatal.

I have taken comfort in the fact that you said your wood consumption was less than with your old insert (or a previous one).  Thought you had a sentence about the auto-fan...  There's a thing called a snap-disc behind the front grate that can be pushed up closer to sense heat quicker.  I've gone with a timer to turn mine off 1, 2, 4 hours after I go to bed.  The snap disc was very sensitive to the amount of ash in the stove.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 25, 2014)

Yeah.  I should be achieving those levels of heat, as promised by salesman and Jotul rep, but it just isn't happening.  Those heat numbers are what I used to have with my old unit.  The auto fan is coming on now just fine, when it for some reason yesterday did not.  Will have to go over that with the rep next week to have it checked out.

Thanks for the other ideas.  I'll look into it.


----------



## AK13 (Mar 25, 2014)

I've read quite a bit of this thread and it is really hard to parse out what is going on. A2, the one thing that I see again and again is your reporting that the insert is not performing based on the temperature that your are reading in the house. The other data point that you refer to is the reading of magnetic thermostat. I think that you should really stay focused on the insert itself and the next thing to do is to order an infrared temperature gun with a laser pointer. You can get a nice one on Amazon for about $25. Then you can start getting some real data about how the unit is performing.  

Also, I wouldn't pay any attention to when the fan comes on in auto. It senses on the bottom of the stove and is heavily influenced by the amount of ash in the stove. I routinely start my fan manually when I can SEE that the fire is cranking hot. Then I switch it to auto when I go to bed so it doesn't run all night.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 25, 2014)

AK13 said:


> I've read quite a bit of this thread and it is really hard to parse out what is going on. A2, the one thing that I see again and again is your reporting that the insert is not performing based on the temperature that your are reading in the house. The other data point that you refer to is the reading of magnetic thermostat. I think that you should really stay focused on the insert itself and the next thing to do is to order an infrared temperature gun with a laser pointer. You can get a nice one on Amazon for about $25. Then you can start getting some real data about how the unit is performing.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't pay any attention to when the fan comes on in auto. It senses on the bottom of the stove and is heavily influenced by the amount of ash in the stove. I routinely start my fan manually when I can SEE that the fire is cranking hot. Then I switch it to auto when I go to bed so it doesn't run all night.



Thank you for these tips.  I'll carry through with them.  IMO, it shouldn't have to be this complicated and one shouldn't have to go through all these hoops to have this, or any other wood insert or stove operate as it should.  This much micromanaging and minute fussing that I read about from all of you, as well as what I am and have been going through is just not conducive to a good "user friendly" product, however that phrase is to be interpreted.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

Attached is a pic of burn after repacking this morn at 4 AM.  Also see vid.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

Pic of chimney and roof line.


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Mar 26, 2014)

That looks like a lot of chimney


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> That looks like a lot of chimney



The masonry is actually only 11', and the added stack that looks so industrial is 4-5'.


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 26, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Pic of chimney and roof line.



For the love of Mike, how is this thing just not working?  You've handled the outside masonry part with the insulation.  Personally, I think the added stack looks very good.  Maybe the problem was getting it in black.  Wait, mine's brown...


----------



## Soundchasm (Mar 26, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> That looks like a lot of chimney



B_R, make sure to post what your folks decide on as a replacement.  Thanks.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> For the love of Mike, how is this thing just not working?  You've handled the outside masonry part with the insulation.  Personally, I think the added stack looks very good.  Maybe the problem was getting it in black.  Wait, mine's brown...



Right!  It's firing well, etc. and all that everyone has said blah, blah, blah...it just doesn't heat my house past 68.  For instance, this morning it was 64, then down to 61 in about an hour and half when I re stoked it at 4, then when I left for work after fussing and micromanaging it, temp was either 65-66.  That was 3 hours later! and I was mostly awake the whole time making sure stove temp was up near 700 and all that before turning the blower back on around 6 AM.  Stove temp crashed back down to the 400, then crept back up by the time I left to around 500.


----------



## 12pack (Mar 26, 2014)

I havent read every page so I might have missed this......

If the stove is getting up to temp and getting secondary burns as it should maybe the problem is in the layout of stove in the house?

where are you taking these temp readings? 
is the room warm where the stove is located? 
do you have insulation? 
Crawlspace under house? 
A window open? (just kidding)


----------



## AK13 (Mar 26, 2014)

I agree with 12Pack. All good questions. A cold house doesn't mean a non-peforming stove. The stove looks like its working. I know that you said you put a bunch of money into energy improvements, but I think its time to question your expectations of the stove vs. what it takes to heat your house. Do you know the design heating load for you house?

It looks like your stove is at one end of the house. My 550 heats the room its in pretty well, but it doesn't magically send heat down to the other end of our house....I had to put in a second wood stove for that  It does put the heat upstairs pretty well since it is at the bottom of the stairs and sends out very hot air that goes straight up to the ceiling and up the stairs.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

12pack said:


> I havent read every page so I might have missed this......
> 
> If the stove is getting up to temp and getting secondary burns as it should maybe the problem is in the layout of stove in the house?
> 
> ...



Answers are in bold after the question.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Mar 26, 2014)

AK13 said:


> I agree with 12Pack. All good questions. A cold house doesn't mean a non-peforming stove. The stove looks like its working. I know that you said you put a bunch of money into energy improvements, but I think its time to question your expectations of the stove vs. what it takes to heat your house. Do you know the design heating load for you house?
> 
> It looks like your stove is at one end of the house. My 550 heats the room its in pretty well, but it doesn't magically send heat down to the other end of our house....I had to put in a second wood stove for that  It does put the heat upstairs pretty well since it is at the bottom of the stairs and sends out very hot air that goes straight up to the ceiling and up the stairs.



My expectations of this insert come from the sales guy, dealer, Jotul rep, and even Jotul North America.  The old insert I had was more than adequate, though again, I KNOW you can't compare those old units to these high efficiency/high EPA standard inserts and stoves.  I don't know the design of the heating load of my house.  As stated many times, my old insert had no problem getting a 58 degree house up to 72-78 degrees (average) in maybe four hours max.  There were zones in the house that didn't get hit those comfortable temps being on the other side of the house, but they still weren't below 66-68, and when the old insert was really cranking, I even had to practically crack a window.

Since day one, this thing has maintained a house temp of 62-68, and rarely gets to 70 or higher.  So my expectations are inline for what this insert is designed for and what was sold as.  In fact, this unit is built to heat a house 1000-1500 SqFt bigger than mine.  And my small ranch has an open concept floor plan.  There are very few walls, energy efficient windows (big ones facing W-SW), hardwood floors, a couple of ceiling fans, no cathedral type ceiling (though I wish), and finished basement.  

Yes it heats the small room it is in well, though not as hot as one would think/expect.  Further out though, it is marginal from what I was led to believe it would do and was more than capable of doing.


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Mar 26, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> B_R, make sure to post what your folks decide on as a replacement.  Thanks.



Will do.  I'm pushing hard for PE Summit, but my old man thinks he wants a cat.  We'll see I guess.


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 26, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Will do.  I'm pushing hard for PE Summit, but my old man thinks he wants a cat.  We'll see I guess.



I bet he is like my Dad was. He always said he would let me pick something out for him and then he would take the one next to it.


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Mar 26, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I bet he is like my Dad was. He always said he would let me pick something out for him and then he would take the one next to it.



This is _*exactly*_ how he ended up with the 550 in the first place.  I had done a lot of legwork when I purchased my stove and I thought a big PE would cut their wood consumption (less for me to cut every year) and heat their house better.  Instead he came home with the Jotul.  It works great but it just dosn't have the horse power to heat their big, draft old house.


----------



## oconnor (Apr 1, 2014)

When the temps are dropping off quickly once the fan comes on, is the air shut down? No stove setup is the same, so you can burn it exactly like someone else and get different results. Keep the air open and see what you get. 

Also, you may need to reload earlier than others suggest, I know I do with my c450. Don't worry about getting secondaries, just worry about getting heat. Once you get heat, secondaries will come with refining when you decrease the air and by how much. 

You are getting better temps as I read through the thread. Give it more air, reload on top of more coals, and wait on the fan until it's truly hot.

You are getting there. Don't stop now.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 1, 2014)

oconnor said:


> When the temps are dropping off quickly once the fan comes on, is the air shut down? No stove setup is the same, so you can burn it exactly like someone else and get different results. Keep the air open and see what you get.
> 
> Also, you may need to reload earlier than others suggest, I know I do with my c450. Don't worry about getting secondaries, just worry about getting heat. Once you get heat, secondaries will come with refining when you decrease the air and by how much.
> 
> ...



The air is shut down for the most part.  It is less than half to 1/4 open, depending on the wood being burned, etc.  Right now, I have some maple that is so dry, it torches off like a furnace and the insert gets up to somewhere between 600-700 in about an hour with slowly shutting down the air intake incrementally.  If I keep the air open, I lose all the heat up the stack.  

I have been practicing all of your suggestions stated, and the bottom line is still this thing does little to heat my house adequately.  If it weren't for the outside temps hovering in the mid 40s to 50s right now, my house would not be above 70 as it is indicating now.  I am thinking it has to do with the fan and the overall power it may be lacking.  Everything else seems to be working just stellar.  

If they initially told me that it would heat my house to 68 and that is it, then I would have been better able to deal with this, and maybe not bought it in the first place.  But it has been said time and time again that this should be blasting me out of my house and even in the dead of winter, I should be to the point of opening a window or two.  

This is a product that has been over promised and under delivered.  Period.


----------



## oconnor (Apr 1, 2014)

You are missing one piece - you are shutting it down too early. Regulate the air based on the thermometer. If the thermo drops, open the air back up. You need to heat the entire flue to get the draft increased to the point where the stove will sustain a burn with the air at 1/4.

Open the air up. Stop worrying about "the heat going up the stack". You should be able to get 700 degrees in 15 minutes if you cut it small enough and arrange it well.

With your set up, you need the flue to get hot and stay hot. That upper extension on your flue will cool really quickly - it's just liner sections right? If it's cold, it isn't going to help with the draft, and with the minimal heights that you have, you aren't going to get a good burn until the second or third load of fuel. Yes, you have enough chimney, but it isn't going to run like one connected to 30 feet of flue.

So, burn it quick and hot, air open.  Forget about losing heat up the stack. You need air to make heat, and given your flue, you won't have the velocities inside the flue to maintain the fire with the air shut down.

Don't even be afraid of overfiring it - it sounds like you can shut it down quickly.

Hope this is helpful - I hate that you were sold something that isn't suited to your install.  Good luck.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 1, 2014)

oconnor said:


> You are missing one piece - you are shutting it down too early. Regulate the air based on the thermometer. If the thermo drops, open the air back up. You need to heat the entire flue to get the draft increased to the point where the stove will sustain a burn with the air at 1/4.
> 
> Open the air up. Stop worrying about "the heat going up the stack". You should be able to get 700 degrees in 15 minutes if you cut it small enough and arrange it well.
> 
> ...




That is helpful.  But it is directly opposite of what others have suggested and guided here in this lengthy thread.  The stove pipe in the chimney is insulated with one of those "blankets," even though I was told I wouldn't need one, and found out that all stacks in Michigan are to have one by code.  Those liner sections are insulated to code as well.

Getting up to 700 degrees in 15 minutes is something that has never happened, no matter what.  I can get it up to around 600 relatively quickly, like 1/2 hr or maybe a bit sooner, but going to 700 rarely happens.  What I am finding when leaving the air open too long is that the law of diminishing returns kicks in and it doesn't get any hotter, and just either stays around the 600 degree temp or temp begins to go down a bit,  Usual start up for fire is small stuff stacked N-S/E-W and build upon that as things heat up.  

I meet with the Jotul rep tomorrow, as well as the owner of the store that sold this to me.  Thanks for your ideas and support.  Will keep trying...


----------



## oconnor (Apr 1, 2014)

Glad to hear they are meeting with you. Let us know what they say.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 2, 2014)

After meeting with the Jotul rep and owner of the company I bought this Jotul Rockland 550C from, we have concluded, as we all have here done as well, that the insert is working just fine and all pieces and parts are in fine working order.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  And all the steps I have taken over the last year to block off air escaping, insulating against the cold air infiltration, insulating my firebox, block off plate in the chimney, using really dry wood (fuel), etc. have been all the right moves to make.  

The question remains, why is this not pushing back some of the "cold" ish air?  Even just crossing the threshold from the room the insert is in to the next very adjoining room, which is all open space, no walls...nothing, just one sort of big room, one can feel the difference in temp.  It's not the fan on the unit, though I was told to never run it at full blast and only keep it at a minimum level, which I had tried for some time based on advice here, but never worked out for me.  The air the fan pushes doesn't have time to heat well when it is full blast, so slowing it down a bunch gives the air to really heat a lot to what the insert is making it.  Again why did my old insert work so well vs this thing?  Basically because it used so much more wood and put out way more BTUs than this new one is designed for.  I use way less wood now (close to half if not 2/3 less and certainly 1/3 less), with all its energy efficient and EPA and all that other good fancy techy engineering type stuff. 

Advice given...use my furnace fan to circulate the warm/hot air from the insert throughout the house.  Since I have an old(er) gas furnace, I have been warned against this in the past since the fan would run up my electric bill quite a bit.  I am hesitant to give this a go, even though I know and accept the principle behind it.

Other advice given...use the ceiling fan(s) more, and even try the one in the other room, which I have used before and had only had experienced it cooling the air down.  And YES!  I do have the fans blade spinning in the correct direction for winter time.  Pointing a small little floor/box fan from the other room at the unit into the room where the insert is would help circulate and push the colder floor air into the area to get warmed up, and recirculate from there. 

More advice given...block off the basement, which comes through the middle of the house, with a blanket or some heavy plastic to reduce the amount of colder air coming up into the rest of the house, even though it has been partially insulated down there.  Give it a try and that way, the insert and fan of the insert isn't fighting so hard against any colder air infiltration.

Bottom line, even though I have made all these energy and efficiency upgrades to my house and this insert before this burning season began, it still is not capable of overcoming whatever bits of cold that makes its way into the house.  So very disheartening and disappointing.  To those of you who kept saying it is my house and all due to my house, you can thump your chests and smile your "I told you so s."   Yet no one can answer me why the heating results from last year before all the house and insert/chimney upgrades aren't different from the results I get this burning season after everything I have put into it.  It may not be working as hard to get up to those subpar house temps (oversold expectations) I was experiencing last year, but that is as far as it goes.  Overall, still the same outcome.

I guess I have to resign myself to accepting this over promised and under delivered unit on how much better it would heat my house.  Thanks for all the time, patience, advice, suggestions, etc.  Till next burning season...


----------



## Setter Fan (Apr 2, 2014)

A2Woodburner,

I have read through all 8 pages and really "feel" for you (no BS really get your aggravation). The amount of money and energy you have put into the 550 is admirable and I am sorry for your troubles.  I have the same unit in a 2,600 square foot house with a center chimney and have had the exact opposite experience... really could not be happier.  Cant add any additional insight that has not already has been given here.

My only suggestion is to not ask but demand from Jotul or the store you purchased the 550 from a full refund or a replacement.  

If your house/setup can handle a woodstove propose to Jotul an exchange (Insert to Woodstove).  A suggestion would be a Jotul F500,F600 or F55.  I cant say you will get what you ask for, but at this point it is worth the fight.  

People rave about their Jotul woodstoves and they appear very easy to operate and they put out tremendous heat.  My 550 has always put out good heat, but it took some time to perfect my burning techniques.

Good luck and please keep us all informed!  

Frank


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 2, 2014)

Setter Fan said:


> A2Woodburner,
> 
> I have read through all 8 pages and really "feel" for you (no BS really get your aggravation). The amount of money and energy you have put into the 550 is admirable and I am sorry for your troubles.  I have the same unit in a 2,600 square foot house with a center chimney and have had the exact opposite experience... really could not be happier.  Cant add any additional insight that has not already has been given here.
> 
> ...



Thank you Frank!  I wish I could install a wood stove instead of insert, or afford to do so.  All the best!

Bruce


----------



## Soundchasm (Apr 3, 2014)

Bruce, you've done an awesome job just answering the mail.  If the 550 ran on determination, yours would heat the neighborhood.  I did a quick "survey" of the replies you got where folks positively identified owning a 550.  Out of 18, 10 were less than stellar, two gave no indication, 1 was bad/good, and 5 were positive.  Happy owners generally don't post on the internet-why would they?  They're doing other things.

I don't recall one complaint of excessive heat.  The bottom line is we're saving money, but not as warm as we'd like to be.  I'd calculate your payback period and start on research that includes the phrase "help, stove makes room too hot!".


----------



## bobdog2o02 (Apr 3, 2014)

A2, where do you live?  

You may have noticed that some people have burned almost twice as much wood this year compared to last year.  

Maybe if your situation didn't get worse during this brutal winter your insulating efforts weren't in vain and you might notice GAINS next year?


----------



## A2Woodburner (Apr 3, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> A2, where do you live?
> 
> You may have noticed that some people have burned almost twice as much wood this year compared to last year.
> 
> Maybe if your situation didn't get worse during this brutal winter your insulating efforts weren't in vain and you might notice GAINS next year?



I live in Michigan.  We shall see...


----------



## begreen (Apr 3, 2014)

MI has been pretty much ground zero for the the arctic freeze we've seen this winter. I would consider this year as the worst case scenario. At least I sure hope it is!


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Apr 5, 2014)

A2Woodburner said:


> Yet *no one can answer me* why the heating results from last year before all the house and insert/chimney upgrades aren't different from the results I get this burning season after everything I have put into it.



Ummm. . . yes someone can.  The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove.  It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.


----------



## bobdog2o02 (Apr 5, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Ummm. . . yes someone can.  The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove.  It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.



You are such an optimist.


----------



## jatoxico (Apr 7, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Ummm. . . yes someone can.  The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove.  It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.


The 550 is not all that big. Usable firebox is 2.1-2.3 cu I would guess. It's built like a tank but not very large. Mostly an E/W loader so not easy to stuff to the gills either.


----------



## Pooge (Aug 10, 2014)

jatoxico said:


> The 550 is not all that big. Usable firebox is 2.1-2.3 cu I would guess. It's built like a tank but not very large. Mostly an E/W loader so not easy to stuff to the gills either.


 
A2, you have stated that you have sealed the house up. Could it be that your house is so sealed that you are not receiving enough air into the house to provide a sufficient draft? This may not be likely since you said you have a gas furnace, which has a chimney opening. However, if this gas furnace is firing, IT'S draft may be sucking supply air out of the house and starving your stove. The fact that your stove temp drops so fast after turning your stove fan on is curious, especially since others say theirs doesn't drop so fast. I'd concentrate on that.

While your chimney height is barely adequate, it won't draft like a 25ft chimney. Having a sealed house would make it even more difficult to get a good draft. Have you tried opening a door or window to increase draft? You might also consider modifying your furnace to use outside air, if possible, to reduce any tendency to negative air pressure in the house.


----------



## A2Woodburner (Aug 11, 2014)

Pooge said:


> A2, you have stated that you have sealed the house up. Could it be that your house is so sealed that you are not receiving enough air into the house to provide a sufficient draft? This may not be likely since you said you have a gas furnace, which has a chimney opening. However, if this gas furnace is firing, IT'S draft may be sucking supply air out of the house and starving your stove. The fact that your stove temp drops so fast after turning your stove fan on is curious, especially since others say theirs doesn't drop so fast. I'd concentrate on that.
> 
> While your chimney height is barely adequate, it won't draft like a 25ft chimney. Having a sealed house would make it even more difficult to get a good draft. Have you tried opening a door or window to increase draft? You might also consider modifying your furnace to use outside air, if possible, to reduce any tendency to negative air pressure in the house.



I had a new home energy audit in June.  The auditor is the one the store uses and was incredibly thorough and complete.  Even more so than last years.  My house isn't as buttoned up as tight as you imply here.  I have some more work to do in closing the house up even more regarding drafts, air leaks, etc.  Also, draft is not the issue.  None, nada, etc. etc. etc.  Sorry, nothing you are suggesting here fits in this case and situation.  I appreciate your assistance and advice.  

Based on the auditor's report and the extensive research he did, this Jotul C 550 CB wood burning insert is rated at 11,700 - 35,900 BTU/hour.  This is way far and below the "up to 75,000 BTU/hr" that Jotul presents in its documentation of this unit.  It does write the rating in small print of the owner's manual.  It is probably rare that I get this unit up to even close 30,000 BTUs and that may even be for possibly at most an hour.  Almost no way will it get to 75000 BTUs (well maybe for a few minutes or so).  NO...it is not the wood I burn.  NO...it is not the insulation in my house.  NO...it is not the draft, or the height of my chimney, or if I have a block off plate (or not), or if I lined the firebox with Roxul, or this, or that, or whatever.  

Very bottom line once and for all.  This unit was and has been over promised and under delivered from the get go.  Plain and simple.  When I spoke with the salesman asking if this will put out the same heat and temps my old one did, his response was "It should."  When we discovered that the stack wasn't tall enough and didn't spec out, and that was remedied, and I asked, "Will it now perform at the same level my old one did?"  The response was "It should. No reason why it shouldn't."  When I had the Jotul Rep out here to look things over, along with the salesman, and was told to add a block off plate along with sealing up any openings to the outside from the fireplace itself; and did that, and once again I asked. "Will it now perform at the same level I am accustomed too?"  And the response was "I am confident you will see a major difference and will be satisfied with the performance and results. Yes, it should."  When I insulated my house and made over 5k worth of energy upgrades and updates, and contacted the store and Jotul rep with the same question, and you guessed it, the response was "That should do it."  And now, I have a thermometer and all the great advice in the world on how to fire this thing and burn in it, and the Jotul Rep with the owner of the store out at my house and finding that the thing is working like it should and being told to waste tons of money and energy by having just my furnace fan help to circulate the warm(ish) air through the house even though my furnace is 20 years old and not set up for this, which will cause me to spend at least $300.00 a month in utility, and the response still remains the same.  Oh...and I also have to put some plastic or a heavy blanket over my stair well from the basement to slow the cold air from down there...AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!  WTF!! 

Finally in June with this totally complete home energy audit, I find out that this thing is so under rated it isn't funny.  There is absolutely NO WAY in heck that this lousy piece of crud will EVER measure up to what I once had (Oh...But I can't compare the old with the new), unless I dump between 10-15k more dollars worth of energy/insulation upgrades into my house.  And that simply is not going to happen.  I can make my house better, and have remedied a good portion of the recommendations, but not to that extent just to burn and heat my house with wood. 

OVERSOLD/OVERPROMISED and UNDERDELIVERED/UNDERPERFORM  nothing more, nothing less.  It is a worthless piece of junk for me and an incredible waste of money over the last couple of years.  No way to have really known, but now stuck with it.


----------



## drewsome (Nov 22, 2014)

I've got a new problem with my Jotul 550 Rockland, after only 3 seasons of use.  Neither blower will work!  I confirmed that the electrical outlet is fine.  

The 3-way toggle switch looked a little corroded (as did the wires leading into it) so I just replaced the switch, but it's still not working, even in manual mode.  I attached a picture of the switch before I replaced it.  

Do you think I also need to replace the wires?  Any other ideas?  I doubt it's the blowers since the odds of both of them breaking at the same time seems remote. 

I'm so frustrated with this!  Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm freezing!  Thank you!


----------



## A2Woodburner (Nov 22, 2014)

drewsome said:


> I've got a new problem with my Jotul 550 Rockland, after only 3 seasons of use.  Neither blower will work!  I confirmed that the electrical outlet is fine.
> 
> The 3-way toggle switch looked a little corroded (as did the wires leading into it) so I just replaced the switch, but it's still not working, even in manual mode.  I attached a picture of the switch before I replaced it.
> 
> ...



I suggest you call your dealer or Jotul area rep to take care of it for you.


----------



## richmhv (Nov 22, 2014)

Woodstocker said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I am new to this forum, and my username refers to where I live, not the type of stove that I have....just wanted to clarify that!
> 
> ...



Hi:
    Trying to heat 2700 sq ft from the basement sounds difficult. Remember that wood stoves/inserts are space heaters so in a house like yours may need one on the main floor if you spend most of your time there. I have a 1200 sq ft house with a free standing stove and it is toasty. Living room is about 78 as I write this. You will get more heat from a freestanding stove. the radiance is amazing. If the family room is reaching 80, you are getting plenty of heat, it's just not going where you need it. I would say small stove or insert in the family room just to keep the family room about 74-75 and a freestanding stove upstairs to heat the main area of the house. That would be the one to burn 24/7, light the family room one when you want to use the room.


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER (Nov 22, 2014)

What is your moisture content and species of wood you are burning?


----------



## OhioBurner© (Nov 23, 2014)

richmhv said:


> Hi:
> Trying to heat 2700 sq ft from the basement sounds difficult. Remember that wood stoves/inserts are space heaters so in a house like yours may need one on the main floor if you spend most of your time there. I have a 1200 sq ft house with a free standing stove and it is toasty. Living room is about 78 as I write this. You will get more heat from a freestanding stove. the radiance is amazing. If the family room is reaching 80, you are getting plenty of heat, it's just not going where you need it. I would say small stove or insert in the family room just to keep the family room about 74-75 and a freestanding stove upstairs to heat the main area of the house. That would be the one to burn 24/7, light the family room one when you want to use the room.


Your responding to someone that hasnt even been on the forum in almost 4 years.



A2Woodburner said:


> Based on the auditor's report and the extensive research he did, this Jotul C 550 CB wood burning insert is rated at 11,700 - 35,900 BTU/hour.  This is way far and below the "up to 75,000 BTU/hr" that Jotul presents in its documentation of this unit.



Most any stove manufacturer today make the 'max' ratings fairly high. Those numbers don't mean a whole lot in reality. But just for the heck of it let me do some quick math. I think its a 3 cubic foot firebox if memory serves. Using premium hardwood, theoretically we could pack it full of 171 lbs of Osage Orange which it seems 6200 btu per pound is often used to account for moisture and efficiency, so that's a 1,060,200 btu burn. If we assume the stove dissipates that entirely in 12hrs that's about 88,000 btu/hr, so not too far off from their rating. It will take probably longer than 12 for the stove to cool completely to ambient, and its unlikely we can pack the firebox full, so more like 1/2 to 2/3 that number in reality. Jotul is probably inline with their ratings compared to most manufacturers. I see the stove is currently rated at 65,000 btu actually.



A2Woodburner said:


> It is probably rare that I get this unit up to even close 30,000 BTUs and that may even be for possibly at most an hour.  Almost no way will it get to 75000 BTUs (well maybe for a few minutes or so).  NO...it is not the wood I burn.  NO...it is not the insulation in my house.  NO...it is not the draft, or the height of my chimney, or if I have a block off plate (or not), or if I lined the firebox with Roxul, or this, or that, or whatever.



I still feel that if your stove is stalling then there is something not ideal in your setup. The obvious causes would either be draft, air supply, or a stove defect. The Rockland, packed with good hardwood, will easily take off like a rocket with good draft and air. Just being 5 or 10 minutes late closing it down could, temperatures could easily rise to 900-1000º.  Whats plain and simple is if this isnt happening to you then there is something limiting it, not that the stove is incapable.



A2Woodburner said:


> OVERSOLD/OVERPROMISED and UNDERDELIVERED/UNDERPERFORM  nothing more, nothing less.  It is a worthless piece of junk for me and an incredible waste of money over the last couple of years.  No way to have really known, but now stuck with it.



If you think its so poor why not get rid of it? If its only a couple years old you should be able to sell it for a good price. Buy something else if you think it will help. A Rockland is certainly not a worthless piece of junk. It outperforms my Hearthstone and my pellet stove. I may eventually put mine for sale... it doesn't perform as good as I hope but that is because of my house, and because I didn't research certain aspects of it. I wont complain too much though, it will keep me warm most of the time and I think its roughly inline with other stove manufacturers. I just would rather have a free standing unit that can run without power, be able to cook on, get more radiant heat, longer burn times, less awkward firebox size for cutting wood, etc.


----------



## hamsey (Nov 24, 2014)

I thought it has a 2.3 firebox? Not positive though. 

I was just thinking about this thread over the weekend when it is really cold I feel that the 550 is to small. Not going to do anything now but maybe next year replace it with a PE Summit. Will see how it goes over the winter. I do love it just think it is too small for our house and would have to make significant changes to accommodate the PE


----------



## pigc (Dec 10, 2014)

hamsey said:


> I thought it has a 2.3 firebox?



2.08 according to the Jotul brochure.  A2- Is the Rockland working any better for you this season?


----------



## OhioBurner© (Dec 12, 2014)

Some members here have measured it out at 3cf but I think that's including all the way to the glass, and all the way to the baffle and without taking in consideration the taper or the raised front, etc. I don't know if they changed it over the years or not but I don't recall Jotul listing the firebox size in my manual, but 2.08 sounds really small... my Hearthstone is 2cf and holds noticeably less wood.


----------



## hamsey (Dec 12, 2014)

I just measured mine not to long ago. Useable firebox size is 2.08 (2.0764 if you want to be precise). That is measured from the andirons to the back, width front and back (averaged) and measured to the bottom of the baffles.

At least Jotul printed the honest firebox volume .


----------



## OhioBurner© (Dec 12, 2014)

Ah yeah your probably loosing a lot if you only go to the andirons. Still seems kind of low though, I wonder if my Hearthstone is similarly overrated since I can fit the same length log in (~13" N/S) but its not nearly as wide.

Seems like there has been a lot of misinformation in the past about the size of the stove though, just did a search since I was curious and many references to it being 3cf, 2.7cf, etc, etc. (for example https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insert-vs-wood-stove.122237/page-2#post-1640836 )


----------

