# Sharpening chains



## Poolec (Nov 19, 2017)

Guys, can you give me any tips, pointers, or advice for sharpening your chains?  Do you use simple files or any of the several gadgets that are our there?


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## GadDummit (Nov 19, 2017)

Well I'm the biggest idiot on the forum (village idiot?) and I can't sharpen to save my life. Tried a lot of things, but finally I picked up a Timberline (link) and start to finish I'm done sharpening to a razor sharp edge in about 5-8 minutes with cold fingers. It's worth its weight in gold. Just make sure you doublecheck that you order the right carbide blade for your chain.

Also make sure you tighten the tensioner on the back of the sharpener. I usually get it tight, run the sharpener blade a few turns, then tighten the tensioner again and run it. At that point i'm set for the whole chain.


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## saewoody (Nov 19, 2017)

Round File with some sort guide works. I use the husqvarna kit


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## BlankBlankBlank (Nov 19, 2017)

I have the Timber Tuff Upright Bench Mount chainsaw sharpener.  It works great and is easy to use.  The pitfall to having a bench mount sharpener like this is not being able to take it on the job.  But that can be overcome by taking 3 or 4 sharp chains instead.


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## johneh (Nov 19, 2017)

Tried a buddy's Stihl all in one 
Throwing all the other sharping files and jigs I have away
It is fast and every thing that needs to be filed is done 
all at once rackers and teeth  It is even as good or better
 than my fancy pro shop sharpener (grinder ) and faster


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2017)

I don't like wasting my precious time in the woods on sharpening.  I cut until noon, and then swap my chains after lunch.  I'll sharpen them by the radio in my heated shop one night the following week, using a chain grinder.  Grinders can be had for $100 from Northern Tool, which won't heirloom quality, but will get the job done.

Speaking of which, I'm headed to sharpen some chains now.  Got a few loops each of 14", 20" and 28".


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## DodgyNomad (Nov 19, 2017)

johneh said:


> Tried a buddy's Stihl all in one
> Throwing all the other sharping files and jigs I have away
> It is fast and every thing that needs to be filed is done
> all at once rackers and teeth  It is even as good or better
> than my fancy pro shop sharpener (grinder ) and faster



My experience also.  Nothing better than my Stihl 2 in 1.  Fast, and very easy to use.  

I have never seen anything sharpen as well, check them out online.


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## Sodbuster (Nov 20, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I don't like wasting my precious time in the woods on sharpening.  I cut until noon, and then swap my chains after lunch.  I'll sharpen them by the radio in my heated shop one night the following week, using a chain grinder.  Grinders can be had for $100 from Northern Tool, which won't heirloom quality, but will get the job done.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm headed to sharpen some chains now.  Got a few loops each of 14", 20" and 28".




^^This. I have a Northern Tool sharpener, and it works fine. I did replace the OEM wheel with an Oregon wheel. My chains come out razor sharp and they hold an edge. I take rainy days and sharpen chains, moving them from my "dull" dowel to my "sharp" dowel. Fortunately my cutting area is only 300 yds from my shop, so switching chains coincides with lunch time.


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## Jazzberry (Nov 20, 2017)

I have tried most and a Dremel beats them all easy choice.


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## blacktail (Nov 20, 2017)

Only takes a few minutes.


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## BIGChrisNH (Nov 20, 2017)

Agreed on the Stihl 2 in 1. I used to hand file the teeth with one file, then do the rakers with a flat file. This is much faster and my chains perform better since I started using it. Best 40 bucks or so I ever spent.


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## Mike M. (Nov 20, 2017)

Standard round file works great for me, sharpen every tank of fuel. Then after 5-10 filing times remove chain for bench grind and rake adjustment. 

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## Sean McGillicuddy (Nov 20, 2017)

Brings the chain back to better than new ... real easy..


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## Dairyman (Nov 20, 2017)

Is the depth gauge setting progressive with the 2n1?


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## BenTN (Nov 20, 2017)

Question for you 2in 1 users: are the files in this rig replaceable? Files do wear out, especially on Stihl chain. So can you replace the files, round and flat, in this jig? Or do you drop $40 every season for a new one?

I do similar to Ashful. Rarely do i cut past lunch and hand file in field as needed. Otherwise they get the granberg grindnjoint once wrecked.


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## Ashful (Nov 20, 2017)

BenTN said:


> I do similar to Ashful. Rarely do i cut past lunch and hand file in field as needed.


I guess my post was a little confusing.  I cut all day, swapping chains at lunch time on the saws I'm using most, so I can continue cutting all afternoon.

I always enjoy these threads, seeing all the different ways folks have of getting the same job done.  I still haven't seen a way that I prefer to my current method, but I'm always hoping I will.

Question on the Dremel rigs... how do you set the compound angle?  If it's free-hand, there's no way you're getting consistent grinds without removing more material than necessary to get to the edge on each tooth.  Also, how do you maintain equal tooth length?  At least the hand filers can count strokes, but how do you remove the same amount from each tooth with a Dremel?  Seems hokey.

On a grinder, you measure a few teeth on each side, and dial it in to remove about .010" from the shortest tooth.  From there, all teeth will be ground down to match the shortest tooth.  In cases of a single badly-damaged tooth, I may ignore that one, and go to the shortest un-damaged tooth.  Perfect consistency leads to straight cuts, and I've seen a lot of folks unable to cut straight with their re-sharpened chains.


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## DodgyNomad (Nov 21, 2017)

BenTN said:


> Question for you 2in 1 users: are the files in this rig replaceable? Files do wear out, especially on Stihl chain. So can you replace the files, round and flat, in this jig? Or do you drop $40 every season for a new one?
> 
> I do similar to Ashful. Rarely do i cut past lunch and hand file in field as needed. Otherwise they get the granberg grindnjoint once wrecked.



Yes files are quickly swapped out.  One end swings open and they drop out.  These files seem to last very well in this rig.  I can say that in my use, I've seen better than 30 cord bucked before the file started to depreciate.  

They really are amazing.  But, your ability to hold and maintain consistent tolerances and replicate the same stroking motion can really pay dividends.


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## Ashful (Nov 21, 2017)

Jazzberry said:


> Filing the same on each tooth making a big difference is bs. I always file one side of the chain a little shorter (not on purpose just the way it ends up) than the other and it makes no noticeable difference. They cut with the tip not the length.


You need to take a closer look at chain geometry.  The top of the tooth is not parallel to the chain, it is at a negative angle, such that reducing the length of a tooth by sharpening also reduces the tooth height.  This is why you need to reduce the height of the depth gauges (called “rakers”, by many here) as you sharpen the chain and reduce tooth length, which is part of the regular process of sharpening any chain.

If your teeth are all different lengths, then they will be different heights.  This can be comp’d to some degree by setting each depth gauge at a height relative to that tooth, but that’s a bit of a nightmare to manage.  It’ll also result in one tooth taking a bigger or smaller bite than the next.  If your teeth on one side are longer (and thus taller) than the teeth on the other, then the chain will always wander toward that side as you cut, as the teeth on one side will be taking larger bites.

If you don’t believe any of this, then skip filing your depth gauges, and see how that chain runs after several sharpenings.

... and before you get all hot and bothered again, note I’m not saying you can’t do a good job with a Dremel.  I’m just asking how you manage it, as the bench-mounted grinder seems much simpler and more consistent, to me.  I have two Dremel tools, which are very handy for very small odd jobs and crafts, but I’ve never used them for sharpening chains.


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## Woody5506 (Nov 21, 2017)

I use the 2in1 and it's easy enough for a novice like me


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## BenTN (Nov 21, 2017)

I may have to put one of these 2in1 things on my Christmas list. Read alot of good things about them around the forums.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 21, 2017)

I've used a cheap HarborFreight bench grinder in the past, but at the prices that the local Amish chainsaw shop charges and the quality of their work I've brought a few chains to them the last few times.


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## Ashful (Nov 21, 2017)

firefighterjake said:


> I've used a cheap HarborFreight bench grinder in the past, but at the prices that the local Amish chainsaw shop charges and the quality of their work I've brought a few chains to them the last few times.



I wish I could find a good shop for that, around here.  Most seem to grind off damn near half the tooth, with each sharpening.  I guess there’s a conflict of interest, as they also sell new chain loops.


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## blacktail (Nov 21, 2017)

I was going to pic up a 2 in 1 at the shop today, until I saw the $50 price tag. It can't be that good.


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## Sodbuster (Nov 21, 2017)

BenTN said:


> Question for you 2in 1 users: are the files in this rig replaceable? Files do wear out, especially on Stihl chain. So can you replace the files, round and flat, in this jig? Or do you drop $40 every season for a new one?
> 
> I do similar to Ashful. Rarely do i cut past lunch and hand file in field as needed. Otherwise they get the granberg grindnjoint once wrecked.



One reason I bought my el cheapo Northern Freight grinder was that every time I took my chains to be professionally sharpened, they would come back sharp, but blued from heat. With my grinder, I can just spark away slowly till I see all shine using a flashlight. Once I've exposed new steel with the proper angles, it's as sharp as it's going to get. At $25 per loop for Stihl chain, I don't want to send it up in sparks. I do sometimes pull out a hand file, and freehand it after a few tanks. The grinder helps to correct my free handing.


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2017)

blacktail said:


> I was going to pic up a 2 in 1 at the shop today, until I saw the $50 price tag. It can't be that good.



They are expensive, but they can be had for a little less.  Search: Pferd CS-X Chain Sharp Filing Guide


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## DodgyNomad (Nov 22, 2017)

blacktail said:


> I was going to pic up a 2 in 1 at the shop today, until I saw the $50 price tag. It can't be that good.



My local Stihl guy has them for 36 every day, and with my rewards thing, I got 10 off, so it was $26, so I bought 2 of them. 

Worth every penny, imo.  I've put away every other grinder, dremel, and doo-hicky.  I also do my neighbors and families chains, and they are all amazed at how sharp I can get them.  

Lots of other good sharpening options out there, but none that I've personally owned or used that's quicker and does a better job.  I do recommend chucking your bar and saw up in a big vise if you're able and keeping it dead flat, and watching your angles closely for maximum results.  

I built an adjustable hydraulic lift table setup that I use pretty much just for sharpening that has quick height adjust that really makes the process quick and accurate.


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## Sodbuster (Nov 22, 2017)

DodgyNomad said:


> My local Stihl guy has them for 36 every day, and with my rewards thing, I got 10 off, so it was $26, so I bought 2 of them.
> 
> Worth every penny, imo.  I've put away every other grinder, dremel, and doo-hicky.  I also do my neighbors and families chains, and they are all amazed at how sharp I can get them.
> 
> ...



I may have to try one in between grinder sharpenings. The main part I've never been good at is knowing how much to file the rakers.


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## rowerwet (Nov 22, 2017)

I use the timberline sharpener for a factory sharp chain every time. 
I swap chains in the field,  it's much faster than sharpening. 
I have 4 chains for my big saw, plus a longer bar and chain if needed. 
I have two chains for my smaller saws.

The timberline sharpener makes a perfect chain without too much trouble,  every time


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## Ashful (Nov 22, 2017)

Sodbuster said:


> I may have to try one in between grinder sharpenings. The main part I've never been good at is knowing how much to file the rakers.


Grab a straight edge and a feeler gauge set.  Pull out the .025” feeler (assuming Stihl RS-33 PM chain), set the straight edge across two sharpened teeth, and check the gap.  If high, take two swipes with the flat file, and check again.  Count swipes to bring it down below spec., then repeat on all subsequent teeth. You’ll have to reverse the chain in your vise to do the depth garage on the opposite hand teeth, unless you like the feeling of nails on a chalk board.


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## Dairyman (Nov 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Grab a straight edge and a feeler gauge set.  Pull out the .025” feeler (assuming Stihl RS-33 PM chain), set the straight edge across two sharpened teeth, and check the gap.  If high, take two swipes with the flat file, and check again.  Count swipes to bring it down below spec., then repeat on all subsequent teeth. You’ll have to reverse the chain in your vise to do the depth garage on the opposite hand teeth, unless you like the feeling of nails on a chalk board.


As the cutter gets taken back the lower the gauges need to be to keep the proper working angle. A progressive gauge is a better way to go.


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## Ashful (Nov 23, 2017)

Dairyman said:


> As the cutter gets taken back the lower the gauges need to be to keep the proper working angle. A progressive gauge is a better way to go.


Are you referring to the "set" of the gauge?  I don't know anyone who sets gauges.  I just keep them .025" - .030" below the cutters.


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## Sodbuster (Nov 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Are you referring to the "set" of the gauge?  I don't know anyone who sets gauges.  I just keep them .025" - .030" below the cutters.



I'll take a set gauge tool on top of a new chain and check the raker depth. Unfortunately my new MS 261 has yet to see action due to tennis elbow . It's running the 26 RS chain which also calls for .025"


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## Ashful (Nov 23, 2017)

Sodbuster said:


> I'll take a set gauge tool on top of a new chain and check the raker depth. Unfortunately my new MS 261 has yet to see action due to tennis elbow . It's running the 26 RS chain which also calls for .025"


Different thing.  Set refers to how far the teeth are bent to either side of center, which is what Dairyman seemed to imply he was doing with his depth gauges.  I sharpen hand saws saws by hand, and setting teeth is a normal part of that process, but not on saw chain!


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## Dairyman (Nov 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Are you referring to the "set" of the gauge?  I don't know anyone who sets gauges.  I just keep them .025" - .030" below the cutters.


As the cutter gets shorter (length & height) the distance between the tooth & depth gauge changes the attack angle of the cutter. The depth gauge setting needs to be lower than .025-.030 to compensate for optimal performance. A progressive gauge setter like a file-o-plate will do this somewhat. 

Some chain nuts go further.

Here's a good thread on the topic if your board.

https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...ly-progressive-depth-raker-generators.114624/


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## gzecc (Nov 23, 2017)

I also use a dremel with the appropriate size cylindrical diamond bit.


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## Ashful (Nov 23, 2017)

Dairyman said:


> As the cutter gets shorter (length & height) the distance between the tooth & depth gauge changes the attack angle of the cutter. The depth gauge setting needs to be lower than .025-.030 to compensate for optimal performance. A progressive gauge setter like a file-o-plate will do this somewhat.
> 
> Some chain nuts go further.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  That's a long thread... I'll have to read it tonight!  I think I've been inadvertently doing this, though... I usually drop my gauges beyond .025" on my RS chains, having shown it gives me faster cutting, and I run bar combo's that allow me the required horsepower.  As the chain gets toward end of life, I tend to drop the depth gauges more than I do on a new chain, but I never realized there was a proven reason to do this.

The trade-off is "grabiness", as the combo of low depth gauges and short teeth is not a recipe for smooth running.


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## D8Chumley (Nov 23, 2017)

I use the Pferd 2 in 1 for all my 3/8” chains and my cheapo HF bench grinder for the .325 chains. I think I paid around $30 for it a few years back. I was thinking about the Granberg but I don’t know if I’ll actually get it


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## maple1 (Nov 24, 2017)

Ah ha, another filing thread. 

How about this question that I haven't found a consensus on yet - if one side of your chain has teeth with more hook than the other side, will the chain pull toward the side with more hook or toward the side with less hook? (All else being equal with the chain).


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## Dairyman (Nov 24, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Ah ha, another filing thread.
> 
> How about this question that I haven't found a consensus on yet - if one side of your chain has teeth with more hook than the other side, will the chain pull toward the side with more hook or toward the side with less hook? (All else being equal with the chain).


It'll be straight.  All other things being equal.


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## maple1 (Nov 24, 2017)

So you think amount of hook, or a difference in hook between one side & the other, won't have any tendancy to cut crooked?


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## Dairyman (Nov 24, 2017)

maple1 said:


> So you think amount of hook, or a difference in hook between one side & the other, won't have any tendancy to cut crooked?


I think the depth gauges will do there job.


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## Bocephous (Nov 25, 2017)

After hand filing for years I bought a Timberline sharpener; I should have done it years ago.


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## Jason721 (Nov 26, 2017)

I started with a cheap chain sharpener from harbor freight. Got the job done and it worked well for me. A buddy bought a timberline sharpener and when he told me the price I thought wow that's a bit to pricy and not for me. Well till I used it a few times. Now I own one myself!


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## venator260 (Nov 26, 2017)

I always just free hand them in a vice with a round file. I seem to be able to cut straight enough, unless I cut into a rock hard. Then it may take a few filings before it's back to normal. I m not sure why I never thought of just bringing a sharp chain among if I'm away from the vice. May have to do that if I find a log yard to clean up. Im mostly behind the house or close to the garage, so a trip into the vice is a welcome break. 

As for the rakers, I don't use a depth gauge. When the saw doesn't want to grab with a sharp chain, I take two or three swipes with a flat file across the rakers. If thats not enough, ill do it again. I try and go slow as i dont want to take too much. My dad used a grinder once. Great way to ruin a chain.


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## maple1 (Nov 26, 2017)

Dairyman said:


> I think the depth gauges will do there job.



Here's another one. If one side as the rakers/depth guages lower than the other (more cut), which way will the saw cut?

I have assumed almost my whole life, that the saw would cut to the direction of the more aggressive teeth. But issues I was having with a 360 with a 3/4 worn out chain this summer have me thinking the opposite might be true? I was finding conflicting opinions. And I won't be using that saw again until next year to play with it more.


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## BenTN (Nov 26, 2017)

I think the bar has more to do with cutting at an arch than an unevenly sharpened chain. I also think that an unevenly sharpened chain can certainly contribute to the bar groove opening when used continually.


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## Dairyman (Nov 27, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Here's another one. If one side as the rakers/depth guages lower than the other (more cut), which way will the saw cut?
> 
> I have assumed almost my whole life, that the saw would cut to the direction of the more aggressive teeth. But issues I was having with a 360 with a 3/4 worn out chain this summer have me thinking the opposite might be true? I was finding conflicting opinions. And I won't be using that saw again until next year to play with it more.


I would think so as well. But as Ben noted the bar factors in as well. Are the rails proper and the gap true? I'd also look at the bottom of the cutter/straps. If wore to out of wack goofy things can happen.


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## Dakotas Dad (Nov 29, 2017)

Not only do I love my Timberline, all my friends who have seen it in action, love theirs..


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