# Diesel log splitter?



## BrianK

I'm on the look out for a used log splitter, and found the following one for sale locally:



> This is a fabricated log splitter. The cylinder is 2.5" bore x 30" stroke. It has a good running 9 hp Yanmar diesel engine. The pump is 2 stage 11 GPM and was purchased from Northern Tool about 4 years ago. The splitter has I believe 14" tires and a 2" ball to tow behind a vehicle. The splitter could use some cleaning and a fresh coat of paint, but it does work well.
> Asking $700


 
Anyone have any suggestions on evaluating an older home made splitter? Is there any way to figure out a rough estimate of how many tons splitting pressure this unit could produce based on the stats given?

I've heard the 9 hp Yanmar diesel is an excellent engine.


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## nate379

Doesn't look like a bad deal.  Something like that for sale around here would easily be $1k more than what they are asking.


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## wkpoor

Can't see much in pic about the fab work but I think a diesel splitter is a fantastic idea. Technically my splitter is diesel powered and it sips fuel.


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## Dune

Find the area of a circle 2.5 inches in diameter (3.14x 1.25x1.25) or Pi R2 IIRC. Multiply by the psi of the pump, which you should be able to determine at the Northern website, or you could assume 1500 but I would look it up, it could be higher. Then divide by 2000 to know tons.
At 2.5 inches, it is not superpowerful, but otherwise looks like a great deal and should be very fast with that small piston.
If you need more power you could always upsize the piston to say 4". The engine alone is worth the price.


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## triptester

The max tonnage would be 7 tons.


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## Dune

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7873&catname=


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## bioman

I'd drop every thing i was doing & go get it ! The rod coming out the cylinder looks to be 2.5 ". The one i'm building just the cylinder is $645.00 , so i wouldnt hesitate for 700.


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## Dune

bioman said:


> I'd drop every thing i was doing & go get it ! The rod coming out the cylinder looks to be 2.5 ". The one i'm building just the cylinder is $645.00 , so i wouldnt hesitate for 700.


 
This is a very good point, the cylinder looks much larger than 2.5 inches.


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## MasterMech

Evaluate the condition of the hoses. Splitter looks like it's been outside most of it's life. I see a pressure gauge. It will indicate the max psi of the hydraulic system if you extend/retract the cylinder fully and hold the valve open briefly. If that's a 4 inch piston in that cylinder then assuming the pump throws out 2800psi (a typical setting) 2800psi X 12.56 in sq. = 35168 lbs of force / 2000 = 17.584 tons. Assuming a 24" stroke that would give it a cycle time of about 12 seconds. (301.44 volume out + 183.69 volume back = 485.13 total volume for cycle * .0043 gallons in 1 cu in= 2.086 gallons required per cycle 60 seconds / (11GPM pump / 2.086 gallons required) = 11.4 sec cycle time)

You can buy a new horz/vert splitter with similar performance for about $900-$1000 but it wouldn't be diesel. Engine is very over powered for the application. Would be fast with a 16GPM pump should drop it to about 8 sec. Personally I'd offer $400-$500 depending on condition. What's with the receiver on top of the wedge?


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## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Engine is very over powered for the application. Would be fast with a 16GPM pump should drop it to about 8 sec. Personally I'd offer $400-$500 depending on condition. What's with the receiver on top of the wedge?


 
He said he used to use it with a tire business for crushing wheels for recycling, so I'm assuming he had some sort of device that slid into the receiver for that.

I've read these small diesels will run a very long time on just a little fuel.


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## BrianK

triptester said:


> The max tonnage would be 7 tons.


 


MasterMech said:


> If that's a 4 inch piston in that cylinder then assuming the pump throws out 2800psi (a typical setting) 2800psi X 12.56 in sq. = 35168 lbs of force / 2000 = 17.584 tons.


 
I'm going to look at it this week. If it is seven tons, I'll probably pass, if its 17, I'll probably buy it.

As bioman noted, the rod coming out the cylinder looks to be 2.5" (owner stated, "cylinder is 2.5" bore x 30" stroke").


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## ScotO

I'd be buying that dog RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW......That cylinder is WAY BIGGER than 2.5".  I think he meant the ram was 2.5".  Thats more like a 5" cylinder, which would put it in the 20 to 24 ton range if I am correct.   You can always upgrade or repair parts on that thing, if it is a diesel and it runs good, you can make your own fuel and make it cheap! Only if you are mechanically inclined though, there looks to be some tinkering in that old girl....


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## ScotO

Offer him 450 bucks CASH MONEY.......get that dang thing.  Awe man, A DIESEL!@!


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## BrianK

Scotty Overkill said:


> I'd be buying that dog RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW......That cylinder is WAY BIGGER than 2.5". I think he meant the ram was 2.5". Thats more like a 5" cylinder, which would put it in the 20 to 24 ton range if I am correct. You can always upgrade or repair parts on that thing, if it is a diesel and it runs good, you can make your own fuel and make it cheap! Only if you are mechanically inclined though, there looks to be some tinkering in that old girl....


 
OK, sounds like a thumbs up ;-)

I was wondering about the cylinder size versus bore size. It looked like a 4.5" to 5" cylinder in the photos, but I wasn't sure how these things are actually measured.

I know a guy here making biodiesel. A couple years ago a friend and I had a federal ethanol permit. We were licensed to produce up to 10,000 gallons per year for personal use. It was a really enjoyable project, and we were using a 3" copper still and 300 gallon water tanks for the corn mash with a 300 gallon oil tank as our boiler. I put together two 55 gallon barrels end to end under the oil tank with a Vogelzang barrel stove kit as our heat source. That thing would crank out 193 proof ethanol all day long, as long as we kept adding the corn brew into the boiler and wood into the barrel stove.

But we never got past the first hundred gallons (we had about 65 when we shut it down, I wrecked my back so I couldn't help him any more).

However the fellow making the biodiesel is using our ethanol now in his biodiesel conversion process, so I'm sure I can get enough biodiesel off him to run this thing quite a while.


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## ScotO

Go for it Brian.  You will be the envy of everybody when gas hits 10 bucks a gallon this fall....


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## MasterMech

No way that thing crushes wheels @ 7 tons.   Gotta be more.


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## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> No way that thing crushes wheels @ 7 tons.   Gotta be more.



Yeah I was thinking that too. It looks like it might be a lot more than 7 tons, as Scotty pointed out above.


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## Bigg_Redd

BrianK said:


> OK, sounds like a thumbs up ;-)
> 
> I was wondering about the cylinder size versus bore size. It looked like a 4.5" to 5" cylinder in the photos, but I wasn't sure how these things are actually measured.
> 
> I know a guy here making biodiesel. A couple years ago a friend and I had a federal ethanol permit. We were licensed to produce up to 10,000 gallons per year for personal use. It was a really enjoyable project, and we were using a 3" copper still and 300 gallon water tanks for the corn mash with a 300 gallon oil tank as our boiler. I put together two 55 gallon barrels end to end under the oil tank with a Vogelzang barrel stove kit as our heat source. That thing would crank out 193 proof ethanol all day long, as long as we kept adding the corn brew into the boiler and wood into the barrel stove.
> 
> But we never got past the first hundred gallons (we had about 65 when we shut it down, I wrecked my back so I couldn't help him any more).
> 
> However the fellow making the biodiesel is using our ethanol now in his biodiesel conversion process, so *I'm sure I can get enough biodiesel off him to run this thing quite a while*.


 
I'd pass on the homemade diesel. I don't know specifically about the little Yanmars but as a rule the most fragile and expensive part of any diesel engine is the injectors and fuel pumps, and the quickest way to frag your injector(s) is with janky fuel. If you want to save a few pennies buy off-road diesel and always use fuel treatment/stabilizer and always keep it topped up when in storage, or better yet see if it has a petcock to drain the tank. You will never save enough on free homemade diesel to make up for one fuel-related failure.


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## BrianK

Bigg_Redd said:


> I'd pass on the homemade diesel. I don't know specifically about the little Yanmars but as a rule the most fragile and expensive part of any diesel engine is the injectors and fuel pumps, and the quickest way to frag your injector(s) is with janky fuel. If you want to save a few pennies buy off-road diesel and always use fuel treatment/stabilizer and always keep it topped up when in storage, or better yet see if it has a petcock to drain the tank. You will never save enough on free homemade diesel to make up for one fuel-related failure.


Yanmar makes diesel engines for John Deere diesel tractors. Are the John Deere diesel tractors experiencing these kinds of failures? A number of farmers here are making biodiesel out of the soybeans they grow themselves. 

I don't have a problem buying high quality diesel fuel and using the proper fuel treatment. Biodiesel is an option if the price of diesel skyrockets, but it's not a primary consideration here, just a side thought. 

Even in a worst case scenario, if the Yanmar quits, I can still just replace it with a similar sized (or larger?) gas engine, right?


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## kettensÃ¤ge

Will the Yanmar run at the correct rpm's for the pump? Most gas powered splitters are around 3600rpm.
Are these pull start or electric?


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## ScotO

Yes you can Brian.  You could even make it electric if you wanted to.  There are different methods of making biodiesel,  some use no ethanol or methanol at all.  My one buddy has been running his own simple formula for YEARS in his equipment with no problems whatsoever.  I would definitely be interested in that motor should you buy that splitter and not want it.  I'd be putting that motor on my splitter ASAP.


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## BrianK

kettensÃ¤ge said:


> Will the Yanmar run at the correct rpm's for the pump? Most gas powered splitters are around 3600rpm.
> Are these pull start or electric?



That's a question that's been in the back of my mind since I looked up the pump on the Northern Tools site:
http://m.northerntool.com/northerntool/product/detail.do?itemId=1012


> Description
> The Haldex 2-stage hydraulic pump can give you faster cycle times and higher possible pressure with a small engine. Excellent for use on log splitters. 85% efficient. U.S.A. Max. PSI: 3,000, Shaft Diameter (in.): 1/2, Shaft Type: Straight keyed, GPM: 11, Stage: 2, Material: Cast iron housing, Usage: With open center hydraulic systems, Rotations Per Minute: 3,600, Weight (lbs.): 8.9
> GPM: 11
> Shaft: 1/2in.
> Inlet: 3/4in.
> Outlet: 1/2in. NPT
> Dimensions: 5.5in.L x 3in.H x 4in.W
> Minimum HP: 5
> RPM Requirement: 3600
> For use with open center hydraulic systems only
> 1st Stage: 11 GPM@650 PSI
> 2nd Stage: 2.9 GPM@2500 PSI
> Maximum Pressure: 3000 PSI
> Bolt Circle: 2.83in.
> 4 Bolt Holes Spaced 2in. on Center
> Bolt Hole Diameter: .344in.
> Rotation: Clockwise



I wasn't sure if a small diesel is made to run that high of rpms continuously.

The motor is pull start but it has a decompression setting for start up.


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## BrianK

> I wasn't sure if a small diesel is made to run that high of rpms continuously.



After digging around the Internet a bit it appears the Yanmar L90 air cooled 9hp diesel is routinely used in 3600rpm applications.


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## Jags

For the record - I don't run either of my splitters anywhere near full throttle.  Even if the diesel doesn't hit 3600 rpm it wouldn't be a deal break.  Second, I agree with those that think the cylinder in bigger than 2.5" (at least from the pics).  3rd, you are going to use so little fuel for home use that I wouldn't even bother with anything but good old diesel in that thing.  4th - I would be going onto fleebay and buying a 16gpm speeco pump (I bought one new in box for $107) and watch the performance of that thing increase by 30% (you are currently over horse powered - that motor will handle a 16gpm pump easily).


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## kettensÃ¤ge

Agree with Jags on all points, go get it!


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## ditchrider

Diesel, 2.5 inch ram (sounds like rod diameter, indicates a 5 inch piston), um, diesel, 700 bucks wait *700 bucks*! Oh, and uh I think you said it was a diesel.
So, if the little woman organizes a sleepover at someone else's house for the kids and meets you at the door in a silk nightgown to hand you a beer when you get home from work, will you
a)run straight to the bedroom
b)go to the grocery store to get some pickles
or
c)*run straight to the bedroom*


*Run, Forest, RUN*

did somebody say diesel?


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## MasterMech

Any chance y'all are getting a good case of diesel fever?  The Robin on my I & O runs half a day on less than a gallon.  And that's at full RPM. 

I don't think the diesel is any reason to go buy a $700 dollar splitter when $900 gets a decent, brand-new, horz/vert unit.  Besides, we still don't know if the thing needs hoses, and if that really is a 5" cylinder then it's gonna be S-L-O-W on a 11gpm pump.


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## kettensÃ¤ge

Pro's:
What  price point would the diesel powered splitter be compared to, if it was upgraded with the pump Jags suggested, and had the hoses repaired?
Even if the total investment was $1000, I'm sure you would be far and beyond the performance of say a 27 ton MTD for what, $1300 new?

When upgraded I think it would be comparable to some $1500 to $1700 machines in terms of speed and tonnage. And the Yanmar will probably outlast any B&S or Honda.
Yes, overkill for the average woodburner but it probably won't even struggle. Fuel cost is a moot point. Diesel costs more but you would use less.

Any other commercially available "homeowner" diesel splitters out there? Why? Lots of other Diesel powered equipment especially when hydraulics are part of the package.


Con's:

Maintenance costs? Cold weather starting? Noise level? Exhaust fumes?


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## ditchrider

MasterMech said:


> Any chance y'all are getting a good case of diesel fever? The Robin on my I & O runs half a day on less than a gallon. And that's at full RPM.
> 
> I don't think the diesel is any reason to go buy a $700 dollar splitter when $900 gets a decent, brand-new, horz/vert unit. Besides, we still don't know if the thing needs hoses, and if that really is a 5" cylinder then it's gonna be S-L-O-W on a 11gpm pump.


Those are good points.
AND I suppose if your wood tends to be less than 24" and it likes to pop apart then those are excellent points.
But if you find a $900 splitter where I live, it is not new. It likely doesn't work well and the seller bought something different that's better. AND there's a good chance I have a lot of something in my stack that will stop it.
I'm just saying that splitter has the ingredients for what I need. Even if I had (wanted) to buy a 25 gpm pump to make it sing I believe it would be justifiable. 30+ inches is the norm, 24 would be an exception. Even if things split easy, put together a fourway wedge and split half as much. I cut 18-21 inch logs to max out my firebox. Often when I'm done with one log I have a couple day's worth of wood.

BrianK, ScottyOK, get that man's name and number and RUN. You live a LOT closer than me. I think we realize what a treasure that thing is.

Diesel Fever? *sigh* yes I might have a small problem with anything that makes a bang. This discussion could turn to religion and definitely politics. So I'm done now.

The wife won't let me put it in my coffee anymore. But sometimes I can have some over my icecream or three fingers on the rocks if she wants to drive home after dinner. I do keep a bottle of it in the home, just so I can pop the cork and smell it. mmmmmmmm d-d-d-d-diesssselll.


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## BrianK

ditchrider said:


> BrianK, ScottyOK, get that man's name and number and RUN. You live a LOT closer than me. I think we realize what a treasure that thing is.


 
I'm going tomorrow evening to look at it and I'll likely bring it home. That's the earliest I could coordinate with the seller to go see it.


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## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Any chance y'all are getting a good case of diesel fever? The Robin on my I & O runs half a day on less than a gallon. And that's at full RPM.
> 
> I don't think the diesel is any reason to go buy a $700 dollar splitter when $900 gets a decent, brand-new, horz/vert unit. Besides, we still don't know if the thing needs hoses, and if that really is a 5" cylinder then it's gonna be S-L-O-W on a 11gpm pump.


 
I've been pricing these small Yanmar diesels. Even used, they're often selling for more than this splitter, _*if*_ you can find them. And they are used on some very high end emergency and utility equipment and generators. There's a whole line of Chinese knock offs of these small air cooled Yanmar diesels; imitation is the highest form of flattery.

I could buy this unit, sell the Yanmar, and have enough cash for both a used gas motor and a higher GPM pump. But I suspect I'll just haul it home and put it to use, as its better than what I've got, which is an old maul and a bad back and a very limited bank account...


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## ScotO

ditchrider said:


> The wife won't let me put it in my coffee anymore. But sometimes I can have some over my icecream or three fingers on the rocks if she wants to drive home after dinner. I do keep a bottle of it in the home, just so I can pop the cork and smell it. mmmmmmmm d-d-d-d-diesssselll.


you are a sick man, ditchrider........I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!


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## ditchrider

Scotty Overkill said:


> you are a sick man, ditchrider........I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK!


I am the people my parents warned me about. Some folks feel sorry for my kids. What they should be worried about is when my kids are no longer kids. It's what makes the world go 'round.


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## BrianK

I picked it up and brought it home tonight. I got it for $575. I think that's a decent price.

The Yanmar diesel came off a power washer. It runs great. It had not been started since I talked to him last week but started easily on the first pull. The decompression valve makes pull starting it fairly easy. The owner claims he splits a whole season of wood for his outside wood furnace on less than a tank of diesel, and only fills it once a year. He said it just sips fuel.

The hydraulic cylinder outside diameter is 4" and the rod on the ram is 2.5".

It functions fine but the ram seems a bit slow.

There are two extra devices connected to the hydraulic lines which I am unsure of their function. One might be a very old filter but it also has a pointer on top that can be set to two different positions. I have no idea what it does but it did not change the ram speed. The other one might just be an extra port to ad hydraulic fluid.

I'll post photos tomorrow.


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## ScotO

BrianK said:


> I picked it up and brought it home tonight. I got it for $575. I think that's a decent price.
> 
> The Yanmar diesel came off a power washer. It runs great. It had not been started since I talked to him last week but started easily on the first pull. The decompression valve makes pull starting it fairly easy.
> 
> The hydraulic cylinder outside diameter is 4" and the rod on the ram is 2.5".
> 
> It functions fine but the ram seems a bit slow.
> 
> There are two extra devices connected to the hydraulic lines which I am unsure of their function. One might be a very old filter but it also has a pointer on top that can be set to two different positions. I have no idea what it does but it did not change the ram speed. The other one might just be an extra port to ad hydraulic fluid.
> 
> I'll post photos tomorrow.


sounds like a great deal, Brian.  You can always upgrade the pump to a two stage which will make that splitter faster, but it'll be fine the way it is for now.  Get some good pics on so we can check it out!


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## BrianK

Scotty Overkill said:


> sounds like a great deal, Brian. You can always upgrade the pump to a two stage which will make that splitter faster, but it'll be fine the way it is for now. Get some good pics on so we can check it out!


The owner claims that 4 years ago he put a new 11GPM 2 stage pump from Northern Tool. Some of the hydraulic lines are dry rotted but don't leak. I suspect upgrading the hydraulic filter and the bad lines won't hurt.


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## nate379

I see it now.. "rolling coal" while splitting wood..


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## BrianK

OK, I have to name this thing...

I'm open to suggestions. Should I start a poll?


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## BrianK

Also, I asked the owner if he ever had any pieces of wood it failed to split. He said he could only recall two pieces of elm that had huge knots that he just couldn't get to split with it, because it cut through it instead of splitting it, and he had to pry it off the wedge.


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## ditchrider

BrianK said:


> OK, I have to name this thing...
> 
> I'm open to suggestions. Should I start a poll?


suggestion #1: "grunt". When it bites into that nasty old knot on a 30 inch round you'll find out why. When you install a 22gpm pump call it "GRUNT", and a 5 inch cylinder you can rename it "*GRUNT!*" but don't stand near the wedge


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## ditchrider

BrianK said:


> I picked it up and brought it home tonight. I got it for $575. I think that's a decent price.


It's a bargain just for the engine. You could put $500 in repairs and fabrications and remodels on that thing over the next few years and have a real beast. I bet you'll put that diesel against a 15 hp Robbins and do just as well in the tuff stuff.


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## nate379

Yup.  Might be 9hp, but torque is prolly double what a 9hp gas engine has.



ditchrider said:


> It's a bargain just for the engine. You could put $500 in repairs and fabrications and remodels on that thing over the next few years and have a real beast. I bet you'll put that diesel against a 15 hp Robbins and do just as well in the tuff stuff.


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## ditchrider

nate379 said:


> Yup. Might be 9hp, but torque is prolly double what a 9hp gas engine has.


grunt


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## Bigg_Redd

Frankensplitter 

Catersplitter


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## BrianK

ditchrider said:


> suggestion #1: "grunt". When it bites into that nasty old knot on a 30 inch round you'll find out why. When you install a 22gpm pump call it "GRUNT", and a 5 inch cylinder you can rename it "*GRUNT!*" but don't stand near the wedge


OK, most of the websites list the following GPM pumps and HP requirements:

GPM-HP
11 ---5.5
13 ---6.5
16 ---8
22 ---12
28 ---16

I'm assuming those hp requirement ratings are for gas motors.

What size GPM pump should this 9hp diesel be able to handle? Is there a gas to diesel hp conversion, or is it 1:1?


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## ScotO

ditchrider said:


> grunt





BrianK said:


> OK, most of the websites list the following GPM pumps HP requirements:
> 
> GPM-HP
> 11 ---5.5
> 13 ---6.5
> 16 ---8
> 22 ---12
> 28 ---16
> 
> I'm assuming those hp requirement ratings are for gas motors.
> 
> What size GPM pump should this 9hp diesel be able to handle? Is there a gas to diesel hp conversion, or is it 1:1?


I'd probably stay 16 gpm.  That way if you split something big and nasty, the higher volume of the 22 won't bog you down.  Look around on the net, if you can find something that backs up using a bigger pump,  then go for the 22gpm.


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## Jags

If cost is an issue, you will probably want to stick to the 16gpm pump.  After that they start to get pricey real fast.  That 9 hp on a 16gpm pump with a 3.5 inch cylinder will be a pretty quick machine. (outside dia. of 4" relates to about a 3.5 inch ram.)


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## BrianK

*In these photos, I think the device mounted between the motor and the cylinder is a filter, but it has the movable pointer/indicator on top that is viewable in the fourth photo, and I have no idea what that might be or its function. Also, in the second photo, directly above the hydraulic pump, there is a device with a large knob that is labelled "refill valve":*

*







*


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## Jags

Could the lever be a bypass for the filter for cold startups??


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## BrianK

Jags said:


> Could the lever be a bypass for the filter for cold startups??


 
I just took another look at it. It might just be an indicator, because at one position its labelled "Filter Clean." Maybe these old filters needed to be serviced?

I wonder if it could be eliminated and a modern in line filter used to replace it?


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## MasterMech

Is the reservoir built into the frame?

Regarding the mystery device, maybe a filter with a bypass for cold weather starts or perhaps even servicing the filter with the system live?

"Refill valve" appears to be able to divert flow simply back to tank. Dunno why you need that on a splitter?

3.5" cylinder + 16 GPM pump = 8 second cycle time assuming a 24" stroke. Should be PLENTY fast. 22GPM may be a waste/create heat issues depending on line friction. Remember that increasing the GPM of the system is going to generate more heat. I'd take operating temps of the oil in the reservoir before upgrading. If your already over 160 degrees then you might want to consider increasing the reservoir size or adding some kind of cooler. Ideally the oil should never exceed 180 deg. Warmer than that will decrease oil life.

This thing needs a new suction hose ASAP by the looks of it. Don't wait for it to leak air/cavitate the pump. Suction hose isn't big $$. Also suction line is kinda small/long for going 16GPM or higher.

Build a hyd. log lift for it and name it "SplitZilla". 

EDIT:  If you do modify the hydraulic system I'd ditch that filter setup and plump a regular spin-on into the return line off the valve.  Having a filter in the suction line can be restrictive and excessive restriction will cause pump cavitation and that ain't good.  The fix ain't cheap either.


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## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Is the reservoir built into the frame?
> 
> ...
> 
> This thing needs a new suction hose ASAP by the looks of it. Don't wait for it to leak air/cavitate the pump. Suction hose isn't big $$. Also suction line is kinda small/long for going 16GPM or higher.
> 
> Build a hyd. log lift for it and name it "SplitZilla".


 
The reservoir is a heavy metal fabricated flat box 4" x 6" x 40" . The axles are attached to the bottom of the box, and the I beam to the top of it.

Which one is the suction hose? The two lowest, lighter colored hoses are definitely dry rotted, and held on with hose clamps. I'm assuming its one of those?


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## MasterMech

BrianK said:


> The reservoir is a heavy metal fabricated flat box 4" x 6" x 40" . The axles are attached to the bottom of the box, and the I beam to the top of it.
> 
> Which one is the suction hose? The two lowest, lighter colored hoses are definitely dry rotted, and held on with hose clamps. I'm assuming its one of those?


 
Follow the hose clamped line from the pump inlet all the way back to tank.

EDIT: Looks to be two lines that need to go.  Black line from filter to tank looks OK in the pic.


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## MasterMech

BrianK said:


> I just took another look at it. It might just be an indicator, because at one position its labelled "Filter Clean." Maybe these old filters needed to be serviced?
> 
> I wonder if it could be eliminated and a modern in line filter used to replace it?


 
From my other reply here.



> EDIT: If you do modify the hydraulic system I'd ditch that filter setup and plump a regular spin-on into the return line off the valve. Having a filter in the suction line can be restrictive and excessive restriction will cause pump cavitation and that ain't good. The fix ain't cheap either.


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## BrianK

OK, here's a better photo of the hydraulics. I just talked to a local guy who repairs hydraulics on forklifts (brought his mom into my office this morning, where I have the splitter parked) and he looked at it and we went over everything. He thinks the filter can be eliminated and the dry rotting hoses may be causing the slow ram speed (letting air in, even if hydraulic fluid is not leaking out.) Also, the valve above the pump is labelled "Relief Valve" (NOT "Refill Valve" - doh - looked at it in the dark last night) and the knob on top is to change the relief pressure setting. He also recommended we replace the suction hoses and eliminate the filter (he doesn't think it needs one?) and replace the hydraulic fluid, then check the ram speed, and if its still slow, replace the pump.


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## ditchrider

BrianK said:


> OK, most of the websites list the following GPM pumps and HP requirements:
> 
> GPM-HP
> 11 ---5.5
> 13 ---6.5
> 16 ---8
> 22 ---12
> 28 ---16
> 
> I'm assuming those hp requirement ratings are for gas motors.
> 
> *What size GPM pump should this 9hp diesel be able to handle? Is there a gas to diesel hp conversion, or is it 1:1?*


no, it's NOT 1:1! I would go with the 22. What GPM indicates is speed. When you need the speed won't be when the grunt of the work needs to happen. What you are looking for in this application is force. A diesel will have TORQUE. It lugs through the tough spots. When it boggs down it'll keep going when the gas may die out or just give up. Look at it this way... semi's haul groceries TO the store, minivans get the groceries home. GPM gets your wood to the wedge, but more importantly opens the cylinder back up again. There's really no work getting done. Under load, getting through that initial bite or chewing through the knot is when you need the FORCE. Under load, the 9hp diesel will whack a 9hp gas model (regardless of brand) every time, just because it's a diesel. A diesel has a bigger bang which gives it more momentum to keep going. You aren't mowing grass here, you are splitting wood.

The above chart will work for gas applications, but you can step up and push the limits with the diesel. You won't likely find diesels in Nascar, but diesels have been building mountains and bridges and mining coal for decades.

EDIT: After reading another post about heat... With a higher flow pump you can back off the throttle for normal splitting and have lower flow for heat control. If you need a bigger grunt you can always rev it up, thereby keeping your oil cool in normal splitting but yet having a reserve for the tough ones.


----------



## ditchrider

Bigg_Redd said:


> Frankensplitter
> 
> Catersplitter


Anyone have some yellow paint?


----------



## BrianK

Bigg_Redd said:


> Catersplitter


 


ditchrider said:


> Anyone have some yellow paint?


 
I think we have a winner ;-)

RUST-OLEUM Spray Paint, Old Caterpillar Yellow, 15 oz


----------



## MasterMech

ditchrider said:


> no, it's NOT 1:1! I would go with the 22. What GPM indicates is speed. When you need the speed won't be when the grunt of the work needs to happen. What you are looking for in this application is force. A diesel will have TORQUE. It lugs through the tough spots. When it boggs down it'll keep going when the gas may die out or just give up. Look at it this way... semi's haul groceries TO the store, minivans get the groceries home. GPM gets your wood to the wedge, but more importantly opens the cylinder back up again. There's really no work getting done. Under load, getting through that initial bite or chewing through the knot is when you need the FORCE. Under load, the 9hp diesel will whack a 9hp gas model (regardless of brand) every time, just because it's a diesel. A diesel has a bigger bang which gives it more momentum to keep going. You aren't mowing grass here, you are splitting wood.
> 
> The above chart will work for gas applications, but you can step up and push the limits with the diesel. You won't likely find diesels in Nascar, but diesels have been building mountains and bridges and mining coal for decades.
> 
> EDIT: After reading another post about heat... With a higher flow pump you can back off the throttle for normal splitting and have lower flow for heat control. If you need a bigger grunt you can always rev it up, thereby keeping your oil cool in normal splitting but yet having a reserve for the tough ones.


 
Increasing the system flow will do nothing to increase splitting power. You need to increase the system pressure or piston area. Flow affects cycle time. Also having too big a pump on undersize plumbing (especially on the intake side) will encourage cavitation in the pump and that is bad ju ju. And if you have to run at 1/2 throttle to control heat, why upgrade in the first place? Kinda like running a top-fuel engine in your daily driver "just for those times you need to pass a car."

And HP is HP. Diesel or Gas, 9 hp is 9 hp. You can't change that no matter how much you want to. Torque output is more telling of the engine's true power capability and that's where diesels have the upper hand. With a higher TORQUE output than a 9hp gas engine, the diesel MIGHT run a 22 GPM pump ok but it will do nothing to upgrade splitting power.  16GPM will run that cylinder full cycle in < 8 seconds.  Faster than 99% of the splitters out there.  22 GPM is expensive, requires plumbing upgrades and just plain unecessary unless he plans to put a bigger cylinder on it.


----------



## ditchrider

Yup, 5 inch cylinder @ 3000 psi = 29.45 tons. Anyone got a quick answer on cycle time on that @ 22 gpm for a 24 inch stroke? Now THAT's a Catersplitter!
2.5*2.5*3.14159*24/231/22*60 on the way in
about eleven seconds both ways, one cycle. faster than I can puke numbers, anyway

EDIT: slip on a 4-way wedge for the lighter stuff and at the end of the day that's a lot of splits in the stack. When it's a lot of wood, it's a lot of fun.When it's a lot of fun it's worth a lot of diesel, I mean beer (diesel's for breakfast, beer is for supper).


----------



## MasterMech

ditchrider said:


> Yup, 5 inch cylinder @ 3000 psi = 29.45 tons. Anyone got a quick answer on cycle time on that @ 22 gpm for a 24 inch stroke? Now THAT's a Catersplitter!
> 2.5*2.5*3.14159*24/231/22*60
> about eleven seconds. faster than I can puke numbers, anyway
> 
> EDIT: slip on a 4-way wedge for the lighter stuff and at the end of the day that's a lot of splits in the stack. When it's a lot of wood, it's a lot of fun.When it's a lot of fun it's worth a lot of diesel, I mean beer (diesel's for breakfast, beer is for supper).


 


> The hydraulic cylinder outside diameter is 4" and the rod on the ram is 2.5".


 
The OP already posted the cylinder size. With 1/4" walls that would make it a 3.5" piston.

(3.14 x 3.0625)
9.61625 in sq piston area x 2800 psi (a more typical pump setting albeit this machine is adjustable!)
==============
26925.5 lbs of force / 2000 = 13.4 tons, Call it 14 tons for marketing purposes.

Even at 3000 psi you still don't get to 15 tons.

EDIT: 5 inch cylinder (2.5" rod) @ 22 GPM should cycle < 10 seconds. (I got 9.68) You're forgetting that the cylinder rod takes up volume on the return stroke, speeding it up compared to the extension stroke.


----------



## ditchrider

Yes, yes. But someday, somewhere on craigslist there will be a 5 inch cylinder. Heck, hooda thunk Cat made a woodsplitter before we went shoppin on craiglist? It's just krazy what you can get for $575 and a can of yellow paint.


----------



## MasterMech

Even if the pump was upgraded to 22 GPM and the cylinder bumped to a 5", all of the plumbing and probably the valve would have to be upgraded as well.


----------



## ditchrider

You know, it's adventures like this that keeps a spark in a marriage. Are you gonna tell me that if I don't stop making this face that it will freeze this way? Or is somebody just going to get an eye poked out  if we don't settle down?


----------



## BrianK

My oldest son is home on Easter break from his Freshman year at college, and played around with the Caterpillar graphic:


----------



## ScotO

Love it, Brian!  Now if they could just perfect the diesel chainsaw......


----------



## ditchrider

sniff, sniff hmmmm! its not just for breakfast anymore


----------



## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Even if the pump was upgraded to 22 GPM and the cylinder bumped to a 5", all of the plumbing and probably the valve would have to be upgraded as well.


The plumbing and the valve are the easy parts though, aren't they? Just out of curiosity, I've already found a couple valves and hydraulic cylinders on CL, one was both together with a two way valve that I could also plumb a log lifter with.

I've got a good backbone to upgrade with. This thing is built like a tank, its got an excellent diesel engine, a huge reservoir, and I can upgrade pieces/parts as I need to or deem fit. And I've got a hydraulics (fork lift) mechanic who can get me parts wholesale and is willing to do the work cheap, as his parents have known me for a very long time. I'm cleaning it up this afternoon at the local car wash, and dropping it off at his shop this evening. He is replacing any hose that needs replaced and the filter and replacing the hydraulic fluid for a hundred bucks (he's got the tools to do it, and its worth it to me to not have to wrench on it). He is going to try to find me a 16gpm 2 stage pump cheap. If I need to upgrade the hoses, he already has them.

We have a bunch of cans of Rustoleum black paint from other projects, and I'm going to pick up a can of Caterpillar Yellow. My boys and I are going to have fun spray bombing it after we get it back from the mechanic, and I'm going to print up the Catersplitter logo as a bumper sticker decal and plaster it on the fenders.

What's not to like about this whole project?


----------



## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Even if the pump was upgraded to 22 GPM and the cylinder bumped to a 5", all of the plumbing and probably the valve would have to be upgraded as well.


 

I just dropped off the splitter at the farm of the guy who has the fork lift repair business. I asked him if he ever came across larger used hydraulic cylinders, because I was thinking about upgrading to a 5 inch cylinder, and he looked at me like I was a bit daft and said, "That _*is*_ a 5 inch cylinder. This thing will split anything you could possibly need to split." (My cylinder measuring skills are apparently lacking.) He thinks the most it would need is an upgrade to a 16gpm pump, but only for increased cycle speed.


----------



## ditchrider

5 inch? did someone say 5 inch? SSSoo THAT explains the cycle time. It has nothing to do with the diesel. *sigh* What a relief!

But seriously, Brian, if the forklift guy is okay to let you into his shop, it wouldn't hurt to hang around while he's wrenching and maybe you'd pick up on some rules of thumb. If nothing else you may discover some questions he can answer.


----------



## ditchrider

I wonder if we would duct the airflow of the flywheel into the air cleaner thus SUPERCHARGING the YAN.


----------



## lukem

Needs some boost.


----------



## BrianK

ditchrider said:


> 5 inch? did someone say 5 inch? SSSoo THAT explains the cycle time. It has nothing to do with the diesel. *sigh* What a relief!
> 
> But seriously, Brian, if the forklift guy is okay to let you into his shop, it wouldn't hurt to hang around while he's wrenching and maybe you'd pick up on some rules of thumb. If nothing else you may discover some questions he can answer.


 
I considered wrenching on it myself, I have some of the tools and know how to use them (I've done a little bit of everything in my life, worked construction, in a paper factory, delivered furniture and appliances, sold stuff, was a bouncer, hung awnings, worked a sugar shack for maple syrup seasons, and I've done a good bit of my own remodeling over the years). But sometimes its worth having someone who actually knows what they're doing behind the wrench. I stood around with this guy and chatted with him over the splitter yesterday morning for twenty minutes, then again this afternoon for another 45 minutes. I know what needed done, I know I could have done the work, but frankly, he already has all the right tools and know how, and there are some things I'd just rather pay someone else to do as I get more "mature." And my patients look at me funny when they see grease under my nails


----------



## MasterMech

Well since you're getting in to this thing so deep, maybe a 22 GPM pump would be an idea to entertain so long as the Yanmar is up to it.  Worst that would happen is you would be limited on tonnage (pressure) if there's too much pump for the engine.  Just set the relief so it won't stall.

I so want to see pics/vid of this thing in action and that is one bitchin' avatar if I don't say so myself.  And I was just starting to like the timing drive in mine. Sigh.


----------



## BrianK

MasterMech said:


> Well since you're getting in to this thing so deep, maybe a 22 GPM pump would be an idea to entertain so long as the Yanmar is up to it.


 
I do think I'll bite the bullet and go with the 16gpm pump. Its a direct replacement, all the mounting, input/output and shaft dimensions are the same, so its a simple swap. The 22gpm is twice the money, and a bit more complicated, and technically it is beyond the Yanmar hp range, as it calls for 12hp.

I am looking at 4 way wedges too. This one looks like it might slip over the current wedge.



MasterMech said:


> that is one bitchin' avatar if I don't say so myself.


 
Thanks MM. I found a website where you can upload the graphic and get bumper stickers made up fairly cheap. We're going to spray bomb the whole thing in black with caterpillar yellow fenders and hydraulic cylinder, black wheels with yellow hub caps, and put the Caterspiltter bumper stickers on the top of the fenders and sides of the I beam. (When you homeschool like we do, everything becomes a homeschooling project. This will be a combination shop class/ art project  )


----------



## ScotO

MasterMech said:


> And I was just starting to like the timing drive in mine. Sigh.


I still like your timing gear drive avatar, MM.  Small block Chevy??


----------



## ditchrider

MasterMech said:


> Well since you're getting in to this thing so deep, maybe a 22 GPM pump would be an idea to entertain so long as the Yanmar is up to it. Worst that would happen is you would be limited on tonnage (pressure) if there's too much pump for the engine. Just set the relief so it won't stall.
> 
> *I so want to see pics/vid of this thing in action and that is one bitchin' avatar if I don't say so myself. And I was just starting to like the timing drive in mine. Sigh.*


Sniff, sniff, ssssnniff. Do I smell some conversion out here? Or is it just a persuasion. You know guys, as disappointing is it may sound, maybe we could use a realist in our club to keep us from getting TOO far off track, and maybe even injured. It's only one vote. What do you think? Even if he IS outvoted he may provide realistic(although unbearable) reasoning to our discussions.


----------



## MasterMech

Scotty Overkill said:


> I still like your timing gear drive avatar, MM. Small block Chevy??


 
Heeeelllll no, have you seen my sig?


----------



## MasterMech

ditchrider said:


> Sniff, sniff, ssssnniff. Do I smell some conversion out here? Or is it just a persuasion. You know guys, as disappointing is it may sound, maybe we could use a realist in our club to keep us from getting TOO far off track, and maybe even injured. It's only one vote. What do you think? Even if he IS outvoted he may provide realistic(although unbearable) reasoning to our discussions.


 
My opinions, tho not always popular, are rooted in the reality of dirty wrenches, stained uniforms, and bloody knuckles.  And sometimes an empty wallet....


----------



## ditchrider

MasterMech said:


> My opinions, tho not always popular, are rooted in the reality of dirty wrenches, stained uniforms, and bloody knuckles. And sometimes an empty wallet....


Yes, and your point is...? (acceptance or rejection, circle one)
The rest of us in the circle all have one fault the others can ridicule (no really, there's only one. It's a requirement.) Realism, though difficult to swallow, may (like I said) be the one salvation that could keep the rest of us out the hospital, jail or even the mortuary in the midst of our adventures.
C'mon Mech. What do you say? Unless you have a badge somewhere in your underwear. No lawdogs allowed.
....
..hmmmm
Unless you are CIA. It might be cool building a high tech firewood processor to defeat the Russians.


----------



## ditchrider

MasterMech said:


> *My opinions*, tho not always popular, are rooted in the reality of dirty wrenches, stained uniforms, and bloody knuckles. And sometimes an empty wallet....


Such a realist. The rest of us live in such a conundrum we don't have opinions, just far fetched thoughts we believe to be facts. Um.... til we break something in the process .
I wish I could be that humble at times.


----------



## ditchrider

Sarcasm, BBart, its only SARCASM. I'm not related to "coldsmoke" in any way and I've never even been to Alaska.

I didn't even highlight in RED.


----------



## richg

I'm gonna go on record here as the Doubting Thomas. $700.00 for a used, home made splitter when you could easily find a newer brand name model fo not much more money. If we are having this kind of discussion about whether you should buy it or not, what will it be like if/when you try to sell it in a few years?


----------



## ScotO

richg said:


> I'm gonna go on record here as the Doubting Thomas. $700.00 for a used, home made splitter when you could easily find a newer brand name model fo not much more money. If we are having this kind of discussion about whether you should buy it or not, what will it be like if/when you try to sell it in a few years?


naw.....not me Rich.  I'm gonna venture to say that in a couple years when we are all paying 25.00 a gallon for gasoline, Brian will be running his own mix of biodiesel in that machine and splitting his wood for next to nothing....


----------



## BrianK

richg said:


> I'm gonna go on record here as the Doubting Thomas. *$700.00 for a used, home made splitter when you could easily find a newer brand name model fo not much more money*. If we are having this kind of discussion about whether you should buy it or not, what will it be like if/when you try to sell it in a few years?


 
I've been looking at splitters online for some time now. I did not find much worth buying in this price range.

I ended up paying *$575* for it and brought it home. It has a 9hp Yanmar diesel motor that starts easily every time, a 5" cylinder, and an 11gpm 2 stage pump. It needs the suction hoses and filter replaced, which I'm currently having done. I'll probably upgrade the pump to 16gpm. Yes, its home made, but its built like a tank, and its easy to service/repair.

If I decide to sell it sometime in the future, I really don't think I'll have trouble selling a diesel powered log splitter with that set of components, do you? I might not as readily sell it to someone on CL, but in communities like this one, who understand what makes for a good splitter, I don't think it will be a problem.

On the other hand, I don't expect to be selling it any time soon either.


----------



## ditchrider

richg said:


> I'm gonna go on record here as the Doubting Thomas. $700.00 for a used, home made splitter when you could easily find a newer brand name model fo not much more money. If we are having this kind of discussion about whether you should buy it or not, what will it be like if/when you try to sell it in a few years?


My  best guestimate is that its a 29 ton splitter. MasterMech will tell you better what it IS. He knows better what the pressures typically are which is the influential variable that we don't know.
I've looked around for 25-34 ton splitters. In four months there has been 3 ads on CL and they didn't last a week. In our neck of the woods 25-34 ton splitters run 1259-2399 depending on size and Speeco to I&O.
Brian got that thing for $575 and some elbow grease. Even if it needs a new pump it's about half the cost of a Speeco.

But Brian doesn't have a Speeco. He's got a CATERSPLITTER!!!


----------



## BrianK

richg said:


> you could easily find a newer brand name model fo not much more money.


 
Copy and paste the following into your Google search bar:

site:*.craigslist.org log splitter

It will give you all entries for log splitters anywhere in the Craigslist system nationwide.

That's how I do my searches for price comparison, then I search the statewide listings for something local. Its how I found my Carry-on dual axle trailer.

Prices are all over the place, but in general, its hard to find anything worth buying for less than $800.


----------



## brian89gp

Searchtempest.com is good to search craigslist as well.


----------



## Jags

ditchrider said:


> My best guestimate is that its a 29 ton splitter.


 
At a typical 2750 psi pressure release, the real math proves out to be 54120 pounds or 27 tons.  Being home built, the only way to know where it really is would be to put a gauge at the input of the push side of the cylinder (which I highly recommend you do to get it set properly).

Be aware - on home built units, some components don't always match (say 2000 psi hoses instead of a 3000 psi hose).  Always set your pressure release to the lowest components ratings.  It the whole "weak link" in the chain thing.


----------



## BrianK

Jags said:


> At a typical 2750 psi pressure release, the real math proves out to be 54120 pounds or 27 tons. Being home built, the only way to know where it really is would be to put a gauge at the input of the push side of the cylinder (which I highly recommend you do to get it set properly).
> 
> Be aware - on home built units, some components don't always match (say 2000 psi hoses instead of a 3000 psi hose). Always set your pressure release to the lowest components ratings. It the whole "weak link" in the chain thing.


 
Thanks Jags. The forklift repair guy is going to check over all the high pressure hoses for me while he's working on it, if necessary I'll replace them too for peace of mind.


----------



## Jags

BrianK said:


> Thanks Jags. The forklift repair guy is going to check over all the high pressure hoses for me while he's working on it, if necessary I'll replace them too for peace of mind.


 
Have him test the pressure relief settings so that YOU know what they are. In 5 yrs you may pop a hose. You will want to know what pressure your system is running at. 2500 psi hoses are common. Splitter pressures can be higher than that (depending on the settings). Take a paint stick and write it on the pump, or somewhere else on the splitter for future ref.


----------



## ditchrider

Jags said:


> *At a typical 2750 psi pressure release*, the real math proves out to be 54120 pounds or 27 tons. Being home built, the only way to know where it really is would be to put a gauge at the input of the push side of the cylinder (which I highly recommend you do to get it set properly).
> 
> Be aware - on home built units, some components don't always match (say 2000 psi hoses instead of a 3000 psi hose). Always set your pressure release to the lowest components ratings. It the whole "weak link" in the chain thing.


I was using 3000 psi. I've seen some at 3500 and trying to be conservative. As for hose, Our NAPA and most tractor dealerships always carried 3000 psi. But now it's a good point I'll keep in mind. Just when you get used to the norm BANG and that'll teaching you to ask each time you have one built. Thanks Jags.


----------



## BrianK

Jags said:


> Have him test the pressure relief settings so that YOU know what they are. In 5 yrs you may pop a hose. You will want to know what pressure your system is running at. 2500 psi hoses are common. Splitter pressures can be higher than that (depending on the settings). Take a paint stick and write it on the pump, or somewhere else on the splitter for future ref.


 
We talked about that. He is going to try to free up the adjustment knob on the pressure relief valve and check the pressures at load at different settings, and set it appropriately. He's a good old boy, and he's sharp and he knows hydraulics. I'll double check it when I get it back.

I sold a "toy" over the weekend, so I have enough $ in my "play money" account to order a 16gpm pump for the Catersplitter as well as a Timberline chainsaw sharpener, so I'll be ordering the replacement pump tomorrow.


----------



## Jags

ditchrider said:


> I was using 3000 psi. I've seen some at 3500 and trying to be conservative.


 
Keep in mind that the typical Haldex and Speeco pumps have a MAX rating of 3000 psi output.  Most relief valves (control valves) do NOT come from the factory set that high.  2750 is common, but it can be anywhere from 2250 - 2750 depending on brand, etc.

If you have ever witnessed a catastrophic failure of a hydraulic component, it will be ingrained in your brain.


----------



## ditchrider

So, I know I've seen 34 and 37 ton splitters. Details on them are pretty slim. Do they achieve those tonnages typically through pressure or a 6 inch  cylinder?


----------



## Jags

ditchrider said:


> So, I know I've seen 34 and 37 ton splitters. Details on them are pretty slim. Do they achieve those tonnages typically through pressure or a 6 inch  cylinder?


 
Marketing.

They will take the highest working pressure of any component and build their numbers from there. The 34 ton units that use a 5" ram would need to max out a 3500 psi system. There are components that can make that happen, but most of the pumps on those systems are running the 3000psi Haldex pumps. There are exceptions (such as the Barnes pumps, that can run 3500 psi)

This straight from the Northstar verbiage for their 37 ton model.  I don't know where the "Peak" number comes from if the relief is set to the MAX at 3500 psi.

"Ram Force (Tons): 37, Max. Log Size L x W (in.): 25 x 16, Continuous Force (Tons): 34.3,"


----------



## BrianK

Jags said:


> If you have ever witnessed a catastrophic failure of a hydraulic component, it will be ingrained in your brain.


 
The guy working on this said as much, which is why he said he was going to go over everything *carefully*. Which is also why I decided to let someone who knew what they are doing wrench on it.

He said if a hose blows under pressure next to the operator, even on a log splitter, it can be deadly.


----------



## Jags

BrianK said:


> He said if a hose blows under pressure next to the operator, even on a log splitter, it can be deadly.


 
He was right.


----------



## ditchrider

Jags said:


> Marketing.
> 
> They will take the highest working pressure of any component and build their numbers from there. The 34 ton units that use a 5" ram would need to max out a 3500 psi system. There are components that can make that happen, but most of the pumps on those systems are running the 3000psi Haldex pumps. There are exceptions (such as the Barnes pumps, that can run 3500 psi)


Wait, are you telling me that advertisers stretch the truth. I thought that was the reason politicians put campaign committees together because ad firms had scruples of honesty and turned down the work.


----------



## Jags

ditchrider said:


> Wait, are you telling me that advertisers stretch the truth. I thought that was the reason politicians put campaign committees together because ad firms had scruples of honesty and turned down the work.


 
Ohhhh Noooo....I would never say anything like that.

What I am saying is that without specialty components there is NO such thing as a 5" ram, 37 ton log splitter.


----------



## ditchrider

Jags said:


> Ohhhh Noooo....I would never say anything like that.
> 
> What I am saying is that without specialty components there is NO such thing as a 5" ram, 37 ton log splitter.


And that's a reason I asked. just because operating at 100% capacity 90% of the time seems like a short lived machine.


----------



## Jags

ditchrider said:


> And that's a reason I asked. just because operating at 100% capacity 90% of the time seems like a short lived machine.


 
Hahaha - here is the kicker - they come from the factory with a lesser setting on the relief valve.

You ain't even gonna get the 34 ton rating unless YOU crank it back up.


----------



## ditchrider

Jags said:


> Hahaha - here is the kicker - they come from the factory with a lesser setting on the relief valve.
> 
> You ain't even gonna get the 34 ton rating unless YOU crank it back up.


No way! I know the cummins in the Dodge I drive will run 73 @ 2500 rpm in 3rd gear. I only use it to climb a hill if I'm losing altitude pulling a trailer in OD, and if its a hill of any distance I back down to 2000 revs. I try to apply this principle to any machine. Though I realize the engines are governed with conservative nature, why risk it and blow an $8,000 engine.

Likewise, it's one thing to blow a hose or discover a hydraulic leak at preset limits. But max pressure can really let the fluid and steel fly , and has a greater potential to do so. It's not just a breakdown but a serious safety hazard.

Nonetheless, I'm kindof PO'd learning that splitters are marketed on what they CAN do but sold differently. The food we buy is required to not only list the ingredients, but whether they are derived from GMO plant products. But that's a soapbox for the Ash Can. And my mother warned me about that place.


----------



## BrianK

Well, I put a low ball bid in on a new Speeco 16gpm 2 stage pump on Ebay yesterday, and never thought it would come to anything. Today I won the bid at $102.50 plus $15 shipping. So it looks like Catersplitter will be sporting a new Speeco 16gpm pump some time next week.


----------



## Jags

BrianK said:


> Well, I put a low ball bid in on a new Speeco 16gpm 2 stage pump on Ebay yesterday, and never thought it would come to anything. Today I won the bid at $102.50 plus $15 shipping. So it looks like Catersplitter will be sporting a new Speeco 16gpm pump some time next week.


You won't be sorry.  It will speed your cycle time by a good 30%.


----------



## BrianK

Quick question: I got the splitter back from the forklift repair guy last week and he installed new hoses on the suction side. He took the old filter off the suction side and installed a new filter and hoses on the other side between the relief valve and the cylinder. He said that's where they are located on forklifts. Is that OK on a log splitter?

The relief valve kicks in at about 1600lbs pressure. Its supposedly adjustable but the knob is so tight I'm concerned about breaking the valve trying to adjust it. I'm thinking about just replacing the separate pressure relief valve and hydraulic control valve with a modern hydraulic log splitter control with detent and internal pressure relief valve.

With the 11gpm pump total cycle time out and back 16 seconds. I received the 16gpm pump from eBay and it will go on next week.


----------



## MasterMech

1600 is awfully low.  Need to find the lowest rated component in the system and go from there.

Your idea of the new valve sounds good.  Gonna go big and set up for auto extend/retract?

Filter should be in the suction where it was or in the return line running from the valve to the tank.  Otherwise it will be exposed to high pressure, not sure if yours is rated for that?  I've never seen a filter on the high pressure side for a splitter....  or on any open center hyd. system for that matter.  Always in the return or suction lines.  Closed center usually in the suction line.


----------



## Jags

MasterMech said:


> 1600 is awfully low. Need to find the lowest rated component in the system and go from there.
> 
> Your idea of the new valve sounds good. Gonna go big and set up for auto extend/retract?
> 
> Filter should be in the suction where it was or in the return line running from the valve to the tank. Otherwise it will be exposed to high pressure, not sure if yours is rated for that? I've never seen a filter on the high pressure side for a splitter.... or on any open center hyd. system for that matter. Always in the return or suction lines. Closed center usually in the suction line.


 
What ^ he said.

Do yourself a favor and replace the old relief and valve with a detent return.  You will love it.  I personally don't recommend an auto extend for a splitter.  With the 16 gpm pump you will be running hard enough as it is.


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## BrianK

BrianK said:


> *In these photos, I think the device mounted between the motor and the cylinder is a filter, but it has the movable pointer/indicator on top that is viewable in the fourth photo, and I have no idea what that might be or its function. Also, in the second photo, directly above the hydraulic pump, there is a device with a large knob that is labelled "refill valve":*
> 
> *
> View attachment 64790
> View attachment 64791
> *


 
Catersplitter UPDATE:
I replaced the 11gpm pump with a 16gpm pump, removed the home made jack stand and installed a trailer jack to hold up the front end, replaced the pusher plate assembly after it broke when I lent the splitter to a friend, and added a Harbor Freight Truck Crane (on sale, used 20% off coupon, ~$120) with a big set of Dixie log tongs (local CL find, $50) to lift rounds onto the splitter:


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## BrianK

Jags said:


> Do yourself a favor and replace the old relief and valve with a detent return. You will love it.


 
That's next.


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## nate379

Exactly!  There's a few people on here I think that get their info from book reading and treat it as gospel.  While that MAY be good info, OJT "real world" info is better.



MasterMech said:


> My opinions, tho not always popular, are rooted in the reality of dirty wrenches, stained uniforms, and bloody knuckles. And sometimes an empty wallet....


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## Realstone

BrianK said:


> Catersplitter UPDATE:
> I replaced the 11gpm pump with a 16gpm pump, removed the home made jack stand and installed a trailer jack to hold up the front end, replaced the pusher plate assembly after it broke when I lent the splitter to a friend, and added a Harbor Freight Truck Crane (on sale, used 20% off coupon, ~$120) with a big set of Dixie log tongs (local CL find, $50) to lift rounds onto the splitter:
> View attachment 103015
> View attachment 103016
> View attachment 103017
> View attachment 103018


I can't help but smile.  I love it!

When does the video get released?


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## BrianK

Realstone said:


> I can't help but smile.  I love it!
> 
> When does the video get released?



At one time I could upload video from my iPhone to YouTube but somehow I screwed up my settings and can't get them to upload now. 

I wish I could. The upgrades are working fine but for some reason the ram is real jerky when it extends, not smooth. I don't know if the cylinder needs rebuilt or what. It does slowly drip hydraulic fluid where the ram extends from the cylinder.


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## Realstone

BrianK said:


> At one time I could upload video from my iPhone to YouTube but somehow I screwed up my settings and can't get them to upload now.


Try sending the video to yourself in an email as an attachment.  Then upload it from there?  Never uploaded to Youtube before.


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## Jags

BrianK said:


> The upgrades are working fine but for some reason the ram is real jerky when it extends, not smooth. I don't know if the cylinder needs rebuilt or what. It does slowly drip hydraulic fluid where the ram extends from the cylinder.


 
Sounds like air is getting into the system, Brian.  Can you hear a slight difference in tone (from the pump) when it is jerking?


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## BrianK

Jags said:


> Sounds like air is getting into the system, Brian.  Can you hear a slight difference in tone (from the pump) when it is jerking?


I think you're right Jags. I did notice it sounded different at a lower RPM setting. 

 I was just looking around the Internet and air in the lines seems the most likely culprit. I've found that if we forget to position the hydraulic fluid filler/ breather on the uphill side when we run it, the fluid foams up and overflows. I may not have topped it off high enough after one of those episodes when it was loaned out last fall. If that doesn't solve it I will recheck the pickup hose from the tank to make sure its not leaking air into hose going into the pump.


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## Jags

Depending on how much your cylinder is leaking, that could also introduce air into the system.  Does it eventually work out, or does it happen pretty much all the time?


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## Ashful

MasterMech said:


> My opinions, tho not always popular, are rooted in the reality of dirty wrenches, stained uniforms, and bloody knuckles. And sometimes an empty wallet....





nate379 said:


> Exactly! There's a few people on here I think that get their info from book reading and treat it as gospel. While that MAY be good info, OJT "real world" info is better.


 

Methinks MasterMech has spent his fair share of time both turning wrenches _and _reading the literature, a rare and valuable resource to us all.


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## MasterMech

Joful said:


> Methinks MasterMech has spent his fair share of time both turning wrenches _and _reading the literature, a rare and valuable resource to us all.


 
I'm too young to be _really_ good  but I'm gonna be looking to start doing things that aren't covered in the book soon.


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## Jags

Stick with it MM.  I just have a feeling that you are one of the dudes that "gets it".


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## MasterMech

Jags said:


> Stick with it MM. I just have a feeling that you are one of the dudes that "gets it".


 
I will trade the multi-million dollar POS's at work anyday for these little "chitboxes" we all love so much.


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