# Vogelzang - Problems with these Stoves?



## BlastXng (Nov 21, 2006)

Greetings folks..

I just got done today putting in a Wood Stove, small not like some of the monsters I hear people putting in. 

Anyway it's a  Vogelzang - MODEL TR001 -  THE DEFENDER™ WOOD STOVE and I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with these smaller wood stoves. It seems pretty sturdy as well built as the old Fire Place insert I used to have when I lived in Bama. 

Funny thing about it, is that the fire tends to die down an aweful lot when I close the class door even though I have the vent open. Haven't checked but will tomorrow...

Cheers!

Blast

-- 
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Lee Trevino: "If you're caught on a golf course during a storm and are afraid of lightning, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron."


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## Corie (Nov 21, 2006)

Air inlet holes on the TR001 are small, like many small stoves on the market.  As such it requires a pretty strong draft to keep the fire rolling.  

More than likely, your problem lies in the chimney system, although perhaps you just didn't give the chimney time to heat up before shutting the door.

Give us some information on the chimney system the stove is hooked to.


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## BlastXng (Nov 21, 2006)

Corie said:
			
		

> Air inlet holes on the TR001 are small, like many small stoves on the market.  As such it requires a pretty strong draft to keep the fire rolling.
> 
> More than likely, your problem lies in the chimney system, although perhaps you just didn't give the chimney time to heat up before shutting the door.
> 
> Give us some information on the chimney system the stove is hooked to.



Chimney system is as follows-

Supervent System that extend above the roof pitch approximately 7 - 8 ft. with a total pipe length inside & outside of 17ft. Pitch is very slight. Can tell you one thing the Supervent is not very Super that is for sure, crimping the inside and outside didn't make any sense. All pipe is double walled all the way up to the cap. All black pipe is inside, inside all the way up, if that makes sense. Draft if pretty damn good. I can hold a cigar in front of the woodstove with the door open and it sucks the smoke right in and up the chimney. 

Also I am trying to provide heat to an outside room that is like a screened in patio that is basically all glass.   It seems to be doing the trick to some extent but I think that once I get more efficient at getting used to the fire build needed it will get better. 

Okay appreciate feedback on the small holes. Didn't really realize this until I look inside the stove after your post.  I used to have a Frontier insert in a house in Bama that went into my brick fireplace and it had vents in the front that screwed open like handles/knobs that you would twist.

Also the instructions state not to put a grate in the wood stove which to me makes drafting under the wood being burned a little more challenging. I was thinking of making a real small one, but didn't know if anyone else had done this and what the downsides were.


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2006)

"Also the instructions state not to put a grate in the wood stove which to me makes drafting under the wood being burned a little more challenging. I was thinking of making a real small one, but didn’t know if anyone else had done this and what the downsides were."

If the instructions state this - then by all means DO NOT DO IT.  What can happen is that the wood will draft too well and present a possible overfire situation.  In some stove, the bed of ash can also act as an insulator to the bottom of the stove.  I know that my stove actually starts faster, burns better and longer with a bed of ash in it (no wood grate).


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## BlastXng (Nov 21, 2006)

Jags said:
			
		

> "Also the instructions state not to put a grate in the wood stove which to me makes drafting under the wood being burned a little more challenging. I was thinking of making a real small one, but didn’t know if anyone else had done this and what the downsides were."
> 
> If the instructions state this - then by all means DO NOT DO IT.  What can happen is that the wood will draft too well and present a possible overfire situation.  In some stove, the bed of ash can also act as an insulator to the bottom of the stove.  I know that my stove actually starts faster, burns better and longer with a bed of ash in it (no wood grate).



Agreed on not putting a grate in. What I was thinking of doing is putting in 2 small pieces of the firebrick I have at approximately 1/4" in height which I would use a saw to cut. But now after running it for awhile today it seems to be working out okay and is heating the room to about 70 degrees but it's still a little warm outside so I will see what happens this evening.


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## elkimmeg (Nov 22, 2006)

Why does Vogelzang  imply a stove is listed when they only test them to a listing. A little play in words and misleading advertising  Tested to a standard 
but nothing is said if it passed Ul standard  Then why not list the standard?  is it possible it did not pass? You know for around the same money you could have purchased
 an Englander that is approved made in USA and not ****

 LEE could not hit the one Iron because he had such cut flat swing


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## BrotherBart (Nov 22, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Why does Vogelzang  imply a stove is listed when they only test them to a listing. A little play in words and misleading advertising  Tested to a standard
> but nothing is said if it passed Ul standard  Then why not list the standard?  is it possible it did not pass? You know for around the same money you could have purchased
> an Englander that is approved made in USA and not ****
> 
> LEE could not hit the one Iron because he had such cut flat swing



Uh Elk. Englanders aren't tested by UL. They are tested to a UL standard by Warnock Hersey.

The guys that test stoves for Vermont Castings.

"Most wood stoves, manufactured under the brand of Vermont Castings are safety tested and certified by Warnock Hersey International (WH) a division of Intertek ETL Semco, also one of the largest safety testing organizations in the world. Warnock Hersey are an independent test laboratory accredited by international standards councils to evaluate and certify solid fuel burning equipment to standards, ANSI/UL-1482 and ANSI/UL-737 for the United States and standards ULC627 and CAN/CSA-B366.2 For Canada."

What I want to know is what does "Most wood stoves" mean here. Which ones ain't Vermont Castings having tested to standards?

Lee was a great golfer because he did the same things wrong exactly the same way every time. I am a lousy golfer because I to the same things wrong differently every time.


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## elkimmeg (Nov 22, 2006)

WH or omni both testing labs its not the labs, that is in question or where, the question is why do the Volgelzang not have the UL lable attached to the id plate
I bet your Englander has the UL listing standard attached.  That meant that, not only were they tested but approved and met the standard and are labled..
 the issue here they are not listed on the lable but advertised as tested to.

Lee was one of my favorite golfers  the merry MEX


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## mlouwho (Nov 22, 2006)

In the woodstove world, you get what you pay for.  You paid for a low end stove, that is what you got.  Burn it temporarily, til you have the funds to upgrade.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 22, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> WH or omni both testing labs its not the labs, that is in question or where, the question is why do the Volgelzang not have the UL lable attached to the id plate
> I bet your Englander has the UL listing standard attached.  That meant that, not only were they tested but approved and met the standard and are labled..
> the issue here they are not listed on the lable but advertised as tested to.
> 
> Lee was one of my favorite golfers  the merry MEX



Kind of a question I had myself Elk. My Englander has the WH label on the stove but no mention of UL. Personally I trust that indicates they tested it to the standard and it didn't screw up.

On the Warnock Hersey web site they show the stove as tested and approved and the UL standard they tested it against. May be the case with a lot of other stoves out there.

I am glad this fellow didn't buy a VZ box stove. I just saw in their literature the other day where it said "Do not leave this stove unattended.". Now that sure gives ya a lot of confidence in the thing.

The first time Lee played in the British Open he was given all kinds of grief by the gallery. In an interview he was asked if it bothered him. He replied that it didn't hurt his game any but that he had considered wading into the gallery with his putter a few times.


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## BlastXng (Nov 22, 2006)

I bought what I bought cause it sits basically in an outside room that has no direct venting from our central heat system and was a converted screened Sun room, which I pulled down the old metal screens and I put storm doors up all around..  So now it's the room I go to, to smoke a Hoyo de Monteray Cigar in the Winter. My wife actually got this model of VZ very cheap from a local Menards, for it was on sale for far less then what the VZ site has it listed for and if we decide to stay in the house for 15 more years, then in 3 or 5 I will look to possibly replace it. 

Appreciate the feedback and am getting the stove worked out. Right now it's working pretty damn good for 3 days now. Keeps this room at approximately 68 - 70 degrees (Remember this is all windows using storm doors!) when it's about 40 degress outside. So I can't really complain and appreciate any and all comments.

Anyone got a link for the Englander web site? 

Since everyone seems to know so much about stoves, why don't you put together a Chart on the different stoves including the safety aspects, features, BTU's, etc.. ? 
That would be very useful and is something that one of the sites I visit called Cube Owner has concerning graphic cards.

Lee Trevino was a great golfer and my second favorite, but The Golden Bear was the best....


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## BlastXng (Nov 22, 2006)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Why does Vogelzang  imply a stove is listed when they only test them to a listing. A little play in words and misleading advertising  Tested to a standard
> but nothing is said if it passed Ul standard  Then why not list the standard?  is it possible it did not pass? You know for around the same money you could have purchased
> an Englander that is approved made in USA and not ****
> 
> LEE could not hit the one Iron because he had such cut flat swing



Okay Elk, do you have any places that would provide prices over the web that you know of? I want to compare an Englander (http://www.englanderstoves.com/13-ncl.html) to the VZ that I got...

L8r...


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## Roospike (Nov 22, 2006)

We had talked about a woodstove chart of all different brands and models of stoves in the past but never was figured out , a great idea brough up again.


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## BlastXng (Nov 22, 2006)

Roospike said:
			
		

> We had talked about a woodstove chart of all different brands and models of stoves in the past but never was figured out , a great idea brough up again.



Okay well here is the idea I have.. You would need to break it down functionally first One Chart per functional type. 

- Wood Stove
- Coal
- Wood Pellet / Corn.
- Etc..

The  funcational area would need further breakdown for I seem to notce that some folks here replace their furnaces with Wood/Corn/Pellet's/etc/ Stoves.. 

The key is not to place a ranking on the stove for it's a chart showing the technical, environment, safety and other aspects of the type in question. So it if's UL listed then it would state so, if it's not don't put it into the safety column type thing. Hell it could even be converted to HTML with a Javascript pull down for the technical selection area, but that would defintely take more work..


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## Roospike (Nov 22, 2006)

I was thinking about a table grid style chart with kinds of fuel per chart and stove rated per BTU from top to bottom and options and gear from left to right.

Chimneysweeponline.com has an awesome set up and would be a great wat to sell all stove brands like this set up.
 The stove gride is even changable on how stoves line up per BTU / 8 hour burn /  weight /ect...

http://chimneysweeponline.com/

Wood stove chart:

http://chimneysweeponline.com/wscompha.htm


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## webbie (Nov 22, 2006)

Someone would have to do a lot of research considering how often they change models and specs. They'd also have to sort out what are the manufacturers claims and what is reality. A tough job, for certain......


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## DavidV (Nov 22, 2006)

No personal experience with a vogelzang.  I'm fond of saying "it is what it is".  You bought it, you own it, chances are you don't want to go thru the expense of replacing it so you need to get used to running it.  I have some tools like that.  Cheap was all I could afford and upgrading is too expensive so I learn the tool.  
Don't mess with a grate in the stove.  it would take valuable space that you could fill with wood. As others mentioned, try keeping an inch of ash in there (an inch of coals is best) to insulate the bottom of the stove.  burn smaller splits.  This makes a huge difference, especially when you are trying to get the stove up to temp.  

Good luck


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## wg_bent (Nov 22, 2006)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> Someone would have to do a lot of research considering how often they change models and specs. They'd also have to sort out what are the manufacturers claims and what is reality. A tough job, for certain......



NO, post the table and let the community fill it in on the wiki.


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## Roospike (Nov 22, 2006)

Thats the only way you could make a table grid chart is to list the manufacturers claims .
We would be here all year on the first listed stove per home, per wood, per operator error ,per this that and the other thing.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 22, 2006)

Meanwhile, back to the orginal post. 

Congrats on your new stove. It is EPA certified and tested to the same UL standards the rest of our stoves are tested to. As to the start up problems they probably come from the same source as most. Not leaving the door open an inch of so long enough to get the wood fully involved in the burn and heating the flue enough to get a good draft started.

There is always a tendency to not want to waste wood by burning too much of it at startup but ya gotta let the wood and the flue get a good start. Try letting everything get rolling a little better before closing that door and run it a while at fully open primary air after you do.


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