# Vogelzang All cast iron box wood stove. Worth it?



## saladdin (Jan 12, 2012)

I can buy this for $125, new (place going out of business) but I have no idea if it's worth it. This is my first year of burning pellets and looking for a second stove that is pure wood (not needing electricity). House is 1400 sqt feet with chimney that is not being used.

This would be backup or for a shop later on.

Anyone familiar with this guy?


http://www.vogelzang.com/browse.cfm/standard-boxwood-stove/4,13.html


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## jeff_t (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh man.


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## arborealbuffoon (Jan 12, 2012)

Most members on here will tell you to take that stove directly to the scrap yard. (And, they actually DO have a point there)

If you're  trolling, I apologize for feeding you. Just sayin'.......


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## certified106 (Jan 12, 2012)

Here let me sum it up for you......No


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## dougand3 (Jan 12, 2012)

Run away, Run away, Run away and save your life. Sorry, Real McCoys never left my brain. That thing is in constant overfire. Clearances are 36" but 36 feet would be more safe. I bought one for $89 once at Harbor Freight. After unpacking, I said no way am I gonna fire this in a structure I care about.


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## saladdin (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks guys. That was quick and helpful. I should have done a better job searching, my apologizes.


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## fossil (Jan 12, 2012)

Not EPA certified.  Burns hot, fast, and dirty.  Not likely that it's very well made.  Some folks report having had problems controlling the burn.  Requires large clearances from combustibles all the way around (36")...that's a pretty big chunk of real estate to give up.  Trust me, unless you find a deal on a nice used EPA-certified stove on Craigslist or somewhere, you're not going to find anything that I would have in my house or my shop for under the ~$500 range.  Then comes the flue system, hearth, and other incidental costs.  Others will chime in, I'm sure...this stove pops up here ever now and then.  I looked at one on the floor of my local Lowes a few years back, and I just kinda shook my head and walked away.  I could tell it was nothing I wanted to build a fire in inside any structure I owned.  Rick


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## bluedogz (Jan 12, 2012)

Search around here for "Vogelzang" and see what you come up with.  Take all the positive reviews to heart.


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## fossil (Jan 12, 2012)

Actually, Vogelzang does carry a line of EPA certified stoves, but this is a fairly new development, and we haven't heard much about them from our membership yet.  They might be worth a look.  But they ain't no $125, that's fer sure.  Rick

http://www.vogelzang.com/browse.cfm/epa-certified-stoves/2,34.html


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 12, 2012)

I had a vogelzang Durango EPA stove and it almost burned down the house with a run away coal bed! In short the wind picked up outside and the coals super heated next thing I know I can't stop the stove. I ended up covering the secondary air after shutting the main air turns out this is more common than you think from what I have researched. The difference in my vogelzang and a better stove is the cheap air control it is totally useless and dangerious. Stay clear of vogelzang !

Pete


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## DAKSY (Jan 12, 2012)

The ONLY place I'd burn one of those is in my yard.
A friend asked me to install one for him in his basement 
a couple of years ago, & I refused. He asked "Why won't 
you? You're NFI Certified! I told him "Yes, I am, & that's why
I won't!"


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 12, 2012)

I have a Vogelzang Performer thats just fine. Many dont like vogelzang as its made over seas. I had to go thru a learning curve just like everyone else. But the stove works great but the operator sometimes needs some help. But I have gotten pretty good at it. 

But the main point is most on here isnt going to advise you buy those oldtimer stoves. Even tho old timers used those stoves for years, its just that you need to know how to operate them or even these newer type High efficiency stove.

One guy on another website tried to tell me a century fw2700 stove was better as since the vogelzang was shipped in it was made of thin metal to save on shipping cost and that if you looked at the weight of the stove that the Vogelzang Performer was much lighter stove than the equivalent century fw2700. What was so funny was I went and looked and the Vogelzang was made of 3/16 steel just like the century stove and the vogelzang was actually heavier in weight not lighter. 

I got my Vogelzang for $699 at my local Menards $200 off , I guess I did buy it off an American company Menards which employs my brother in-law who works nights there after his day job to help pay for his son to go to college.


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## fossil (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for that info, dog...like I said above, we don't hear much from the folks out there who are burning the Vogelzang EPA stoves.  Of course, that line of Vogelzangs is a whole different animal from the little boxwood the OP was asking about.  Rick


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## Stump_Branch (Jan 12, 2012)

The boxwood of theirs is more of a gimic than an actual appliance. I had an epa insert of theirs, while it did okay, it was small for my needs. They are priced low for a reason. but it kept the room warm so long as i fed it short bits of wood all the time. 

In short i sold it and am glad i havent looked back.


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## jrcurto (Jan 12, 2012)

I HAVE the Vogelzang Pot Belly stove, installed in my garage with an oval double wall stovepipe through thimble to double wall chimney.  All of this takes place in a slab/cinderblock/masonry setting and even then its more for an experiment on draft.  That stove thang runs on wood and coal and can heat my garage to 90 deg in no time.  But In No Time would I want it in my house.  You hear of cherry red cast iron?...  Combine it with crappy non certified construction.  The Pot Belly is going to be moved indoors as furniture and I am going to start playing with a used pellet stove in the garage next.  At least i wont have to worry abouty Chernobyl II when Im not watching.


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## Jags (Jan 12, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:
			
		

> Many dont like vogelzang as its made over seas.



In all fairness, many don't like vogelzang because of their history of making non-epa stoves with ill fitting parts and very poor control of the stove.  It appears that Vogelzang is trying to climb out of that pit with some of their newer offerings and epa certifications (on some stoves), but they have a long haul to correct their well earned reputation.

Its the Yugo of wood stoves.


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## jeff_t (Jan 12, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> Its the Yugo of wood stoves.



Perfect. 
I think it was a Yugo that blew over the side of the Mackinac Bridge


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 12, 2012)

Made in china ,and it should stay there. I actually bought onr of these years ago from harbor freight(before i knew what a real wood stove was) I made them pay the freight to ship it back as the instructions clearly stated it was not for use in any structure resembling a house.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 12, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:
			
		

> I have a Vogelzang Performer thats just fine. Many dont like vogelzang as its made over seas. I had to go thru a learning curve just like everyone else. But the stove works great but the operator sometimes needs some help. But I have gotten pretty good at it.
> 
> But the main point is most on here isnt going to advise you buy those oldtimer stoves. Even tho old timers used those stoves for years, its just that you need to know how to operate them or even these newer type High efficiency stove.
> 
> ...



Though I will never ever buy another vogelzang anything I have to admit the air control looks far better on the performer than what my Durango had on it. It looks like a viable stove and a real effort to improve kudos vogelzang. 
Pete


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## DanCorcoran (Jan 12, 2012)

The Apple iPhone is made in China...I don't think that alone proves anything.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for the replies Pete and Dan.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 12, 2012)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> The Apple iPhone is made in China...I don't think that alone proves anything.



The stove in question is that thin leaky pot belly replica they sell,which is a hazard. That said im equally sure they can make a quality stove as well.


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## Bub381 (Jan 12, 2012)

Another thing on these stoves is i have seen them used here on the coast for years.They want fast heat in those old shops where they build their traps and being cheap they burnt everything in them you could get in it.They threw heat fast and if it got out of hand you could throw anything wet or damp in it.They were a dime a dozen.Have you ever looked at the top of this stove and counted the places you could see into it.Next time you look at 1 throw a flashlight in it and stand back and just look and laugh.Now try controlling that air intake.When these stoves get old i have seen the side panels fall open or partially off.You just can't judge when it will happen.They were severly abused and it was damp alot where they were kept but i still am not impressed with them.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 12, 2012)

jeff_t said:
			
		

> Jags said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes it was as a matter of fact lol


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## Kosmik (Jan 23, 2014)

fossil said:


> Actually, Vogelzang does carry a line of EPA certified stoves, but this is a fairly new development, and we haven't heard much about them from our membership yet.  They might be worth a look.  But they ain't no $125, that's fer sure.  Rick
> 
> http://www.vogelzang.com/browse.cfm/epa-certified-stoves/2,34.html



Just installed a Vogelzang Durango in a leaky house @ 7,200 ft in Central Colorado.  House is 2 story approx 1,300 ft^2.  Substandard attic insulation, R-30 at best, cellulose probably R-30 when they blew it in 30 years ago.  Windows doublepane, but leak like a sieve.  Mostly open floor plan with 2 bedrooms upstairs, close off upstairs beds when not in use.  
First time heating with wood, last season was an old Quadrafire P1000 (last manufactured in '97 I saw), with a gap where stovepipe meets collar (created extra draft).  Fixed that, and sealed two attic hatches and 2 out of 10 windows...Still got more house leaks to fix.  

Got it installed after the Artic Splurge over New Years, so have yet to test it in extreme cold (been sunny and 50/20 to 30/0 here {day/night}).
My biggest take so far is the difference in radiant heat versus the air to air of the pellet stove.  
In a leaky house, that constant heat is the winner.  I'm sure a good pellet stove in a tight/insulated house is awesome, I can imagine, but old leaky sub standard insulation house, this thing has been sweet.  Got the house up to 80 a few times.

About the stove:  (besides the fact I need to get a proper set of tools, which would help with some of the below) (also my inexperience could be aiding this)
1)  Front to back burner, so if you don't have a ditch through the coals, it is somewhat hard to get a full burn of the box without a lot of coal raking.
2)  If you don't load full the 2.2 ft^2 box then you have a hard time maintianing the high temps in the box for the secondary combustion (has a tendency to want to fade away when not being kept hot)
3)  Important to load the sucker full of kindling, not just a little stack, when starting a cold one.  Must have at least 60 pounds of firebrick in it.  Takes a moment to get hot and pull that stuff out the flue, instead of the door when opening.  
4)  Gotta choose you carefully when and how you open the door.  If you need to open it all the way to load, then you need to open the choke for a few minutes, slightly open the door, rake the coals, let that flare up and burn, then you can open the door all the way without filling you house with smoke.
5)  Ash buildup seems to affect the reflection of heat in the box for secondary burn, in addition to the slowing of oxygen through the coal bed, so running again in the morning without cleaning first is a little more difficult.  (working on a hot ash vac design [all steel], so I can attend it better in the middle of February)
6)  Bit of a balancing act between choking the air supply to reduce flue uptake and maintaining secondary burn.  When have a good bed of coals, and a full load, chokes down all the way with a firebox full of flame and pumping out the heat.
7)  Fan is a little 'loud', but for me it is more a little too high pitched and not that 'loud'.  And you don't always want the fan running at full, if the stove isn't that hot.
8)  Fan is insufficient for moving all that heat and only moves from back of stove, not the large sides.  Therefore need ceiling fan in room to push it around.

With that being said, from a cold start I pile in the kindling, choke open (sometimes open the door a crack for a minute or two to help startup), then door must be closed to circulate the gases for secondary combustion, usually starts 1/3 to 1/2 way through kindling burn, then when they burn down enough to make some coals and not flare up when I open the door, I load it up with my smaller wood, after that burns down there is usually enough coals and the bed hot enough, to put in the big ckunks. And when it's hot and choked down, get a good hour or two of heat without much/any tending.
Puts out smoke like a normal stove until gets hot, then when secondary combustion is hitting, nice a clean.  

So a little overkill during more temperate weather, but I have a feeling I'll be good and toasty for the next Artic Vomit.  Happy with the purchase, worth the $920 delivered.


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## Kosmik (Jan 23, 2014)

Also, even though it says it can take up to 25" logs, I wouldn't put anything over 22" because it is nice to have a little distance from the viewing window and air inlet, to the coals/wood.
And is nice to have some short pieces, under 12", so you can stack a load crosswise and save time between moving logs around.  Otherwise if you load it full all lengthwise, once it burns down a little, they'll compact and cutoff airflow.

Saftey wise, this thing seems good.  Has a lip to catch anything backfireing out the air inlet, but that would be a 180 degree trip and nothing has in the last three weeks of operation.  Still, floor protector is recommended 18" from front.  I have minor chimney issues, needs a few more feet I think, but wind hasn't been a big problem, and I've had plenty of it.
Now if you have a bed of coals, load it up, and leave choke on for 20 min or longer, then you are probably in serious risk of overfiring.  Other than that, it has felt safe and doesn't seem to be cheap because it is 'cheap' but because it is utilitarian and probably very easily manufactured, judging by design and lack of frills.


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## simple.serf (Jan 23, 2014)

They work well in the yard for canning and for scalding chickens during butchering. 

They don't work well in any structure that can burn.


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## Kosmik (Jan 23, 2014)

Pallet Pete said:


> I had a vogelzang Durango EPA stove and it almost burned down the house with a run away coal bed! In short the wind picked up outside and the coals super heated next thing I know I can't stop the stove. I ended up covering the secondary air after shutting the main air turns out this is more common than you think from what I have researched. The difference in my vogelzang and a better stove is the cheap air control it is totally useless and dangerious. Stay clear of vogelzang !
> 
> Pete


So do you have a chimney height problem?  I get some wind, it kicks stuff up a little, but nothing compared to opening the inlet all the way.  I have a chimney that is probably 4ft too short to be 2ft above point 10 ft away....2ft above point 6ft away just doesn't cut it.
I agree, the air control leaves something to be desired.
You must have had a big bed of coals!  The only time I've been worried about overfiring is when I'm combusting all the volatiles (the first hour or so after loading), that seems to be when she's really smoking...When it's all coals, I'll have to open up the air inlet just to keep it hot enough.  But I have yet to get a bed deeper than an inch or two at most.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 23, 2014)

This thread is over a year old and the poster you are asking the question is not a member any more.


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## Kosmik (Jan 23, 2014)

I didn't know there was a shelf-life on threads.  What is it?  In other forums I visit, mods close threads when not to be used further.  Sory.

How do I tell if someone is a member still, from what I can tell the guy I asked is still a member.  Where do I look?


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 23, 2014)

DanCorcoran said:


> The Apple iPhone is made in China...I don't think that alone proves anything.


 

it doesn't?


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## BrotherBart (Jan 23, 2014)

"How do I tell if someone is a member still, from what I can tell the guy I asked is still a member. Where do I look?"

The line through the user name means they have left the building.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 23, 2014)

isn't the "boxwood" the stove referred to as the" VZ deathbox" in posts past?

VZ is doing better with their "epa line" they still have some work to do but its a massive leap from the boxwood to the units they are making now.

if they wanted to float enough cash someone might be persuaded to help them design a line that would make it past the newer EPA guidelines. . .


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## firefighterjake (Jan 24, 2014)

stoveguy2esw said:


> it doesn't?


 


BrotherBart said:


> "How do I tell if someone is a member still, from what I can tell the guy I asked is still a member. Where do I look?"
> 
> The line through the user name means they have left the building.


 

? Not sure if you were just being funny . . . but I don't see any line through anyone's user name.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jan 24, 2014)

saladdin said:


> I can buy this for $125, new (place going out of business) but I have no idea if it's worth it. This is my first year of burning pellets and looking for a second stove that is pure wood (not needing electricity). House is 1400 sqt feet with chimney that is not being used.
> 
> This would be backup or for a shop later on.
> 
> ...



Not worth it.  It's not worth it for free.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 24, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> ? Not sure if you were just being funny . . . but I don't see any line through anyone's user name.



We will have to check it. It may be that only Mods see the line. Thanks for bringing it up.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2014)

If you are looking for a cheap box stove for a cabin heater find a good condition Jotul F602, F118, Morso 2B etc. Or get a new steel box stove like the four dog stoves. http://fourdog.com/

Note that these stoves a highly radiant and will need 3 ft from combustibles or proper NFPA 211 wall shielding to reduce clearances.


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## Huntindog1 (Jan 24, 2014)

On my 3rd winter with my Vogelzang EPA line of stove"The Performer" its called, works fine. Early last fall  I tried to find cracks and such, signs of wear and could not find any issues.

Vogelzang is a nice option for an economy stove that works well if you buy their UL EPA line of stoves. I got mine 3 years ago onsale at Menards for $599.

Everyone tries to bring up that cheap non-UL listed and non-EPA $120 stove they make, as an example so they use it for reference for all things Vogelzang. Plus its a China made stove and that doesnt sit well with most people.

Vogelzang was bought out by US Stove last year I think. 

The nice part about it I was able to get me a wood stove and a Huskee wood splitter and paid for it all in one winters worth of savings. I just couldnt rationalize going to wood if it was going to take 3 or 4 years to break even. Kind of like the hybrid car debate. I was lucky to already have a flue in place. 

That durango and your learning curve on it it pretty much par for the course in coming up to speed on these EPA type secondary air tube stoves. Not really just a Durango stove thing. 

The thing about the durango you could most likely get a good cigar type burn going if you rake your coals forward. That way when you put in those long pieces of wood as it will take a 24" length split, the burn starts  up front since you raked your hot coals to the front so no hot coals are in the back of the stove. THe fire will last longer since it has to burn its way to the back.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2014)

Comments have drifted off topic. The query and concern is about the inexpensive box stove. That unit is crudely made and has had dubious casting failures in the past so it is hard to recommend from a safety and controlability standpoint. Craigslist always has these stoves for sale used with bone white sides showing certain overfiring. That directly relates to the crude air control on them.

So far the larger EPA VZ stoves seem to be ok heaters and the issues with the cheap cast iron box stove are not related.


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## Kosmik (Jan 24, 2014)

Huntindog1 said:


> The thing about the durango you could most likely get a good cigar type burn going if you rake your coals forward. That way when you put in those long pieces of wood as it will take a 24" length split, the burn starts  up front since you raked your hot coals to the front so no hot coals are in the back of the stove. THe fire will last longer since it has to burn its way to the back.



Learning curve 

Yeah, ran into some not so seasoned wood the other day, and now have spent a few hours since cruising the site.  

I was pushing the coals in the back because I was letting it burn out overnight and get cold, and I have just a little piece of metal for a scoop, so I didn't have to reach over hot coals.  Then the I read some more, now  rake coals to back,I scoop out warm and rake the coals to the front, let get hot, add wood.  Tools are on the list.

I just got scerrd  when Pallet Pete went on about the VZ Deathstove, combined with the general 'You couldn't pay me to run a VZ', but then I explored and feel safe as I'm going to in this rental...I think the stove is the least of my worries here.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 24, 2014)

Yeah VZ stoves ain't the top of the bragging order but the EPA certified and UL listed ones will heat your house and, if properly installed, not burn the joint down.

The key being properly installed.


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## mikey (Jan 25, 2014)

China junk.


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## Trktrd (Jan 25, 2014)

They make lovely planters !


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