# The Garn has arrived!



## RowCropRenegade (Jul 18, 2009)

Took 3 hours to unload the green beasty.  The Garn was shipped with the door at the back of the trailer.  Made it impossible to lift off with the forklift.  Was worried about bending overflow pipe and goofing up the door.  So I backed my trailer up to his, and we dragged it out.   Then lifted the rear up, and the semi pulled out from it.  Multiple different chain ups but we got it!   Thank god for having a couple forklifts.

I attached a couple pictures.  More to come once installation is underway.


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 18, 2009)

at my house.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 18, 2009)

Not sure which is more priceless, that beautiful piece of engineering or the big ole grin on your face.  Congrats!


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## Gomez (Jul 19, 2009)

Not having to buy 2300 gals of fuel would make me grin too!!

Congrats and good luck!

I hope to be following in your footsteps soon (the Garn (or something like it) , not the 2300 gals of fuel)).


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 19, 2009)

My smile does tell the story.  I about had a heart attack when I filled my 1000 gal tank of fuel oil last year before Hurricane Ike.  4 bucks a gal.

I've got all the hole taped up and covered, no bird nests gonna be made in there.  Now that I have it here,  I can map out the plan.  And get the concrete poured.  I'm going to put in floor heat in too.  Question is, should I put the infloor heat beneath the garn too?


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 20, 2009)

makes sense cycloptic, i ask the dumb questions along with the smart ones.

According the Garn manual, they do not want a doorway from boiler room that leads into the garage.  Where I want to put the unit, that makes this impossible.  With a fire rated door, we would this be a big deal?


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## pybyr (Jul 20, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> makes sense cycloptic, i ask the dumb questions along with the smart ones.
> 
> According the Garn manual, they do not want a doorway from boiler room that leads into the garage.  Where I want to put the unit, that makes this impossible.  With a fire rated door, we would this be a big deal?



I can't speak for Garn, but my strong guess is that they're concerned about codes and/ or insurability.  Heating applicances are not supposed to be in a space connected to a garage out of concern that fumes from gas or diesel from the vehicles could ignite.  Some people in rural locations and with easy-going insurers do seem to be able to create a boiler room in/connected to a garage.  But if your insurance company says OK, confirm it in writing, so that you have a record if they ever try to claim differently.


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 20, 2009)

my dad says you are you own best insurance.  Without insurance concerns, it's my fault if I bring a leaky car into the garage or store gas in there.  Never store gas in doors, period!  It takes alot of fumes for a spark to ignite it.  If the door is closed and a good seal, a fire isnt possible.  Common sense operation and maintenence.  Correct me if my thoughts are wrong.  Forget the insurance.


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## deerefanatic (Jul 20, 2009)

I agree that most garage fires are preventable....... But if you DO have a fire, you know what the insurance company's gonna blame first...................


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## Jim K in PA (Jul 20, 2009)

Congratulations!  The farm looks fantastic.  Good luck with your install, I look forward to the pics!

I love the shot of Red Power and Green Heat side by side.

Cornbinders rule!


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 21, 2009)

Jim, that 1086 does look mean with the Garn be its side.  Glad you could drop in.

Cy, damn that murphy and his laws!  I've seen alot of crazy stuff on the farm, although 95% of them coulda been prevented.  I'm gonna put in firerated door, firewall and keep the door closed.  


I did some reading on some other threads about infloor radiant.

I'm thinking...  6" of rock. blueboard the whole thing. wire 6" mesh, egg cartons? and pex line.  Then 6 inches of concrete.  Blueboard under garn and hoila, heated boilerroom.  Plus insulate around edges of the pad with blueboard 2 feet down.  Suggestions?  

One more thing.  Do you Garn users out there worry about the unit not breathing enough and moisture inside the super insulated structure?


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 21, 2009)

Pictures of garn room, tore out 2 walls and entire floor.  Rotting away anyway.


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## radiantman (Jul 24, 2009)

Love that new door


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## Later (Jul 24, 2009)

Nice Garn room. Although a hot tub and tanning bed would be another option!


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## tom in maine (Jul 25, 2009)

I have a question for all the Garn users: I believe the Garn is unpressurized, so how is corrosion treated? Is there an inhibitor added?

Thanks,
Tom


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## RowCropRenegade (Jul 25, 2009)

Yes that new scratch proof door is pretty sweet.    

I like the idea of hot tub, but I don't deserve one of those til im 40.  

The water treatment program is pretty intensive.  Fill garn with filter.  Add treatment chemical package.  Send off water sample to treatment company, they give future recommendations.  Drain garn after 3-5 years.  Rinse and repeat!

Water treatment is biggest downside to the Garn.  But, i'll take that headache for getting this capacity and simplicity of a unpressurized boiler.   2000 gallons at 200 degrees in a pressurized boiler would make me nervous.


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## RowCropRenegade (Aug 20, 2009)

My garn project has been on the backburner due to cutting up some ash trees in a water way (4 cord) split and stacked.  Then rebuilding two waterways.  Bought extended forks for my 1086 today, so maneuvering the green beastie around is easy money now.

I've pretty much got all my pre concrete pour work done.  With exception of a couple things.

Thermal line.  Dad thinks I should go under the foundation where I enter and exit the house/garn barn.  That will keep it at least 3.5 ft to 4 deep at all points.  I'm leaning towards going with the micro flex 1"1/4 line.  It's 30 per foot but if I go into house then into boiler room I'd need only 20 feet or so.  I'm guessing you would use big pvc under and around the foundation walls.  Then pull the micoflex through and have a junction to convert to regular pex line to run the extra 40 feet to boiler room.

Or just elbow it in above foundation and save alot of digging and go direct to boiler room.  But worry when I go on vacation in the winter?

Also a question about pex for infloor heat.  The area I'm doing only requires one loop.  I saw at http://www.pexsupply.com/ThermaPEX-Oxygen-Barrier-PEX-Tubing-355000 for a 300 foot roll of 1/2 is on sale.  I haven't located a manifold for one loop, with pressure test for pour.

I've been absorbing alot of information today but nothing clearly defines which direction I should go.


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## dogwood (Aug 20, 2009)

Great looking Garn. They really do impress. On that door question. The International Mechanical Code, which is the code for boiler installations used in my county, forbids any door between a garage and the boiler room. The building inspector seconded that when I asked. Use of a fire door between the garage and the boiler room did not get it in my county either. Check your local codes. If that is the case in your area, you have to have the door to the outside only, which is my situation, or risk failing inspection. Giving your insurance company an easy out if God forbid your house burned down, or  worse yet, an even easier out if you didn't get the required mechanical permit and inspection from the building inspectors office is not a place you want to go.  

Check the local mechanical codes at the library, or online if possible, and talk to the County Mechanical and Plumbing Inspector. My insurance company, State Farm Insurance does a look-see too after installation to verify if its a safe and insurable installation. Both these folks need to be on-board with your installation. Its not something you want to mess up on considering the possible dire financial consequences to you and yours.  Its a pain, but not as big a pain as what could happen. Everyone is leery of inspectors but they can really be helpful too in keeping you on the right track and out of trouble. Those codes don't come out of thin air. They are there to keep us safe, whether we like it or not, which I usually don't, but what are you going to do?

Mike


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## RowCropRenegade (Aug 21, 2009)

Door has to be there, no way around it.  It will be a fire rated door.  

The previous questions remain.


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 2, 2009)

Here's some eye candy for you guys.  Hope I didn't lower the resolutiont too much, if I did, I'll repost.

Working on insulating and putting in ceiling at the moment.   Trenching in microflex, 10 gauge electric wire, waterline, network cable and an empty conduit this weekend.

Project starting to come together.  Anyone heard of Icynene® foam insulation?


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 2, 2009)

2 more!


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## heaterman (Oct 2, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Yes that new scratch proof door is pretty sweet.
> 
> I like the idea of hot tub, but I don't deserve one of those til im 40.
> 
> ...



Actually, it's a myth that pressurized systems do not need to have water quality monitored. Granted, many of them aren't but I have distinct memories of a few that sure could have used a good treatment program and diligent monitoring. A Garn is technically a closed unpressurized system. The only exposure to the atmosphere is the 1" overflow tube coming out of the front of the unit. Under normal use very little water is lost over the course of a year.


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## RobC (Oct 2, 2009)

I had some Icynene sprayed in roof when re-roofing and it is great. However it has some limitations and I don't think use around boiler equipment / water is good. It is open cell and has heat limitations. 
I will be looking for spray foam ideas for propane storage over the weekend.
High temp 250F / direct contact / closed cell ?


Don't know if link will work but spec sheet states. 
" not to be installed with in 3" of heat emitting devices, or where the temp is in excess of 200F.

http://www.icynene.com/assets/docum...50-SpecSheet-2008-REV2-qxp-33318-Pour-wrk.pdf


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 3, 2009)

Yeah Rob, I ruled out Icyene for the garn room.  I thought it might be a more affordable option for my house.  Being that it's open celled, I wouldn't have to worry about tighting up this old house too much.  No duct work to move air.

Heaterman, the water I have is really hard,  I'm having to redo my bathrooms now because of it.  I'm not even close to water treatment yet, but it does still linger in my mind.  I'm used to cleaning out 1000 2000 gallon poly tanks cause of algae, calcium deposits, rust etc.  I'm just leary is all.


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 16, 2009)

Finished framing ceiling.  Made a plywood floor for storage.  Of course nothing stored over loading or garn area.

Decided on open cell foam.  It's soy based with lifetime warranty so as soybean farmer I couldn't resist.  1.41 sq foot, comparable to Icyene.  1000 sq feet to do and he said he would throw in Rock wool for the garn.  Not spraying foam near garn or flue.  

I'm leaning towards sheet metal for enclosure around garn and for the walls.  Run steel conduit for the electricity.  I figured sheet metal will hold up against the handling wood.  Anyone see any problems with this.  Painted wood cedar outside, 5.5 inches open cell foam, barn siding sheet metal.   That's an r40 in walls and r-50 for ceiling.  Think the sheet metal will cook me and my wood in there?

I'm finishing up some framing, painting the two exterior doors and caulking up the door I put in today.  Took me all day to do, working with old buildings make for some funky scabbing.  Good news is that I had an outstanding crop and I won't finance a dime.  Got the loan all set up, so I'm gonna buy another loader tractor.  Grapple bucket too!

How is everyone grounding their garns?  I thought about grounding all 4 corners in the lift holes on the bottoms.


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## Bugzapper (Oct 16, 2009)

Holy sh**!  That thing is BIG!  Folks put that beast in their basemements?  You are doing a great job.  Thanks for the pix. (I too have a corn binder although a bit smaller than yours.  A 240 Utility.)

JB


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## Jim K in PA (Oct 16, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Think the sheet metal will cook me and my wood in there?



You should be fine.  I have T-111 in my GARN room, but I have a lot of heat loss up through the ceiling.  I have a storage area above.  Over the GARN I have R50 in FG batts.



> I'm finishing up some framing, painting the two exterior doors and caulking up the door I put in today.  Took me all day to do, working with old buildings make for some funky scabbing.  Good news is that I had an outstanding crop and I won't finance a dime.  Got the loan all set up, so I'm gonna buy another loader tractor.  Grapple bucket too!



Awesome!  You can't have too many tractors IMO . . .  :coolsmile: 



> How is everyone grounding their garns?  I thought about grounding all 4 corners in the lift holes on the bottoms.



I tied mine directly to the grounding rod for my garage electrical panel.   The grounding rod happened to be right next to where I set the GARN, so I only needed about 3 feet of #2 wire to tie it in.  I used one of the electrical element enclosure lugs for the GARN side connection.  There are some pics of this on my site.

Is it filled yet???


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 17, 2009)

Jim,

It's still sitting on the trailer in the barn.  By the end of the day today, I should be ready to put her in.  I figure I'm at least a month away from firing it up.  Obsessing over every little detail has slowed me down, but in the long run I think I'll be happy for being so picky.

By the end of the day today I should be ready for the spray foam insulation.  Putting in nailers for the sheet metal, cutting hole for manhole, filling in old window hole with siding and installing that heavy 2 hour fire rated door.  Electrician coming over to wire up my bin, he's going to look at garn room too.

Time to get started, so cold already.  Burned a burn barrel all day yesterday to keep me warm.  

Reed


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## Tattooz (Oct 17, 2009)

Access to the top will be important, also we made a collar so we could spray in the blown glass deep around it ! 
My wish list of things I wish I had done.
1) Some kind of water supply to the top so I did not have to drag out the hoses when she needs a little water added.

Sorry about the crappy photos!


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 18, 2009)

tatooz, thankyou.  The collar is a good idea.  I'm installing the water line and doing like Jim K did.  Although, it will be the last thing I do.  I snapped some photos about 10 mins ago.  

Had to build mini walls and scab recycled siding back on.  Never painted when it was 40 before, but it looked like total hell.  I'm going to silicon the joints where old wood meets new.  I spent alot of time cutting out rotten wood and squaring it up.  Stole wood from backside, garn slides in through there anyway.  Ordered sheet metal for the room today.  Good prices.  Running electric in metal conduit over the sheet metal.  

The wood piles were previously moved because of that bin you see in background.  5 cords ash. 

One other wacky thing popped into my mind.  You radiant specialists this question would be directed at.  We are harvesting wet crops this year.  The bins in the background have aeration fans on them.  Sitting on a huge thermal mass of concrete.  In theory, if I could heat those pads to 100 degrees and turn on the fan, I could dry crops with my Garn.  Wood usage isn't a concern.  Drying soybeans in 40 degree weather is next to impossible.  It would be very possible to tear up floor, insulate, pour a 4 inch layer of concrete with big tubing and it wouldnt be under weight either.  Bin floors have stands that hold the floor up.


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## RowCropRenegade (Oct 26, 2009)

Framing is complete.   Time for spray foam insulation.   Here is the product i'm using.  Soy based, had to choose it over the other.  open cell.  http://www.energytitesprayfoam.com/ET-Pro-SEAL-Docpage.html.  very comparable to Icyene.

im still planning on wrapping the garn with some type of rockwool. filling in structure with fiberglass then sheetmetal.  should i spray in walls that surround the garn?  I'm not spraying in 5x5 of flue.  I guess my concern is melting the foam.    If the garn's water is 205, and there is at least 8 inches of insulation around tank, then sheet metal, is there a chance of melting the foam?


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## hedge wood (Oct 26, 2009)

I used closed cell foam and sprayed the complete Garn except the chimney seems to be working well. I also had the Garn barn which is 12 feet wide by 22 feet long spray foamed with 4 inches of foam also. I need to get my heat exchangers insulated and the piping that is behind the Garn insulated as these make it very warm in the Garn barn. My Garn barn is also in a building like yours is. I don't like fiberglass insulation in out building as mice seem to love to make condos in it . They don't seem to bother the foam. I am burning 100 percent hedge which is a high btu wood and so far have only seen 180 degree top on the water and that's been with a light load and loading wood every three hours. I have to go back to work Monday so will see how it will work only loading twice a day. I hope you are getting dry weather for harvest. We just got 2.5 inches of rain in the last two day. They did get my beans out before the rain but all of my corn is still in the field. Good luck with the Garn.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 8, 2009)

Finished crops on the 1st.   Been finishing up all the lose ends til today.   Back to work on the garn room.  Haven't touched it since late september. 

Wish I could have gone the foam insulation route, but decided to buy a heaterman garn jacket.  Plus sheet metal tallied up to 670 bucks.   So kinda shot my wad on those cool things.  

So I bought fiberglass for the stick framed areas and will use XPS foam board for perimeter walls.   Just glue the board on, double layer for R-25.  Do I need a vapor barrier for the external walls?

Ground is supposed to freeze up good on thursday, I should have sheet metal done by then.  Make way for the GARN!

The other thing that's bothering me is where to put the heat exchanger.  

The primary loop coming out of the garn will be 2".  Out of this loop are the secondary loops of 1) 1.25" microflex to house  2) future garage loop 3) future loop for snow melt/hot/tub/hot pressure washer 4) 60x120 machine shed.  

But the only loop that will be in service for 1-3 years will be the house.  Do you put a heat exchanger at each secondary loop.  Or size a monster heat exchanger at the primary loop?


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## heaterman (Dec 8, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Finished crops on the 1st.   Been finishing up all the lose ends til today.   Back to work on the garn room.  Haven't touched it since late september.
> 
> Wish I could have gone the foam insulation route, but decided to buy a heaterman garn jacket.  Plus sheet metal tallied up to 670 bucks.   So kinda shot my wad on those cool things.
> 
> ...



I'm wrestling with that very issue on a job right now. This particular application has a 2000 serving a greenhouse currently heated by iron rads + a hot water Modine and a brand new house with radiant floors. I'm going to go with a separate HX for each to keep the fluid from the two systems isolated from each other. Probably lot's of junk in the greenhouse side that I don't want in the radiant tube side. Using a separate HX will also allow complete isolation of both loads in case the owner only wishes to run one of them at a given time. A person could also use the placement of the HX's to provide priority to the loaf you wish to have the highest temp. In this case it would be the greenhouse as the home will probably heat with 110* water.


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## hedge wood (Dec 9, 2009)

Row crop. I hope you had a good harvest. The corn around here never got dry 16.5% was the driest it got. The bushels where good for the dry summer we had ours did 170 average which is good for this dry land area. I used separate heat exchangers for each system. I am heating four different systems so I have four heat exchangers and eight pumps.There is a hole lot of plumbing going on behind my Garn. All most forgot I have one more flat plate and pump that I use to heat my domestic hot water also. We are getting 12 inches of snow today and tonight and it is suppose to get down to -10 tomorrow night. Better go out and put some more wood in the Garn and plug the tractor in . Take care.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 10, 2009)

Hedge,  our corn was excellent, test weight is good enough and moisture was 20-25%.  Corn was very hard to dry. Had to haul out over a week to make space to finish.  Over 200 bpa average over 700 acres.  I raised all soybeans, made 55.  We are tickled.  Picked the right year to install a Garn.  Glad you had a good crop.  We always say we get to farm another year!  Been busy hauling.  Getting .70 premium for our non-gmo corn.  I'm considering going back to beans again, offering 2.25 premium for these high oil/high protein non-gmo beans.   
Can the same heat exchanger to the DHW too?  Where did you put your heat exchangers at?  Close to Garn or entry of the building to be heated?

So a heat exchanger at each loop sounds like the best plan.  Heaterman, how do you keep the fluids seperate with different HXs?  It all comes from the same boiler right?   The primary loop doesn't need a heat exchanger then, if each secondary loop has it's own exchanger?

I haven't found a decent pipe generating program that's cheap (free) so I might make one out of legos and take a picture.  

Got my sheet metal today, in 40mph wind.  Managed to get it all here, undamaged.  Spent a hour just getting the plastic to say in place for the garn runway.  Will start on sheet metaling Garn enclosure so we can move it in within a couple days.  Getting exciting...


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## heaterman (Dec 10, 2009)

:lol:  Make the piping diagram out of Lego's ......I like that! Tells me you're thinking ahead.

AFA keeping the system fluid separate, I was referring to the load side of things wherein the Garn would be serving two or more systems that should remain discrete from one another. The Garn side would obviously flow through side A of both HX's  In the situation referenced above with the new home/radiant floor and the greenhouse with old iron, we have decided to go with two HX's.

Did the "Garn sweater" show up yet?


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 10, 2009)

Heaterman, they shipping company called around 3 today.  It will be here inbetween 8-5, lol.  They were pleased to know I have a turnaround for a semi.

Hung enough sheet metal to be tired of wearing safety glasses.  I could slide the Garn in tomorrow but the tractor is tied up.  Can't sheet metal much more until I insulate the perimeter walls and install the garage entry door.  I'm a slow builder.


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## Jim K in PA (Dec 11, 2009)

Row - looks good.  Did you use the tin instead of gypsum for code reasons?

As to HX layout, I would suggest going with local HXs rather than trying to split the primary into two loops and seperate them with a mongo HX.  You may also be able to go without an HX for some of the loads.  If your load is not pressurized and reasonably isolated from O2 uptake, then skip the HX and get better heat transfer.

We're having temps in the low teens with winds 15-30mph.  Time for morning and evening burns.  It was not going 1-2 days between burns.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 11, 2009)

Trucking company called and said somehow they bungled entering the delivery into the computer, wont arrive til Monday now.  This time they narrowed the window from 10-5, lol.

Jim, I went with the sheet metal because of fire safety, ease of installing in an unsquare building and I thought it would look super nice.  Bugs won't like chewing on it either and should hold up against the volume of wood it will see in its life.  J Channel takes all the work out of clean edges.  The whole project is practice for doing my big barn here in the near future.  Everything from the radiant heat, to sheet metal will be very similiar in the big barn.

Bought insulation for exterior walls today and finished sheet metaling all I could.  Plan is for the Garn to make its way inside tomorrow!


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## hedge wood (Dec 12, 2009)

Row crop. Looks the Garn barn is coming along nicely. I too like the look of the white steel I lined my shop with it which is 20by60 with a 16 ceiling. My four heat exchangers are behind the Garn and my eight pumps are back there too. I need to figure how to post pictures and post some of my Garn barn. I hope its warmer there than here we are below zero every night and in the teens in the day with 12 inchs of snow on the ground. We have had lots of wind this week also. The Garn is doing a nice job of keeping us warm but we are going threw the wood loading morning before work afternoon after work and evening before bed. Almost forgot my fifth heat exchanger is mounted by the domestic hot water heater.


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## Jim K in PA (Dec 12, 2009)

Ah.  So the tin is in the wood shed, not the GARN enclosure?  Great idea.  I used T1-11 sheathing on the inside of my GARN shed.  The ceiling and main wall of my GARN enclosure are skinned in gypsum for fire protection.  The outer wall has no covering on the inside, as it is all insulation from the outer sheathing to the tank.

Good luck with the move tomorrow!

HW - I am up to two burns a day, but shorter burns.  I was burning about 2-3 hours once a day to run the tank up from 130-180+.  Now I am going to keep it at 140-190.  I burn at around 0530-0730, then again at 1830-2030  The cold is not so bad (low teens now), but it's the damned wind that sucks the heat out of my old leaky house.  I am tightening it up, but have a ways to go to get the heat loss down.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 12, 2009)

hedge,  I'm glad the garn is working out for you.   We had some snow here but none accumulated.  When it snows around here the drivers down in Cincinnati all of a sudden take a stupid pill.  Doesn't bode well for semi drivers like me.  It's in the mid teens right now.  I have an LP fire place I turn on when it gets down this cold to help the oil boiler.  My water temps on the oil boiler are 160.  Went out to look just now and my pressure tank is leaking...

Jim, my house is probably as leaky as yours.  The thing I hate most is the very cold floors.  I never walk barefoot cause of it.  Installing radiant would take care of that.   If you look at the 2nd picture above, the wall that has a door at the end of it, is the wood storage area.  Will hold 1.5 cords stacked to the ceiling.  Then to the right of entry door is another 8ft of space to stack another 1.5 cord.  My girlfriends is making fun of me because I'm trying to design a conveyer system to bring the wood to the Garn.  I'm expecting my heat load now to be similiar to yours Jim.    In the future though, I expect to be at hedges head load level.

I didn't sleep very well, kept thinking of different tools I needed to gather up to make this move successful.  The forklift will get it off the trailer and started into the garn enclosure just fine.  However, the gutter on the building will stop me short of getting it in.  Bought 1 inch diameter 5 foot long dowel pins to make her roll.  Then will use the Jim K tactic of jacking up front with floor jack and using forklift and chain on the other to insert 2 inch foam board.  (I cleaned lowes out yesterday)

Biggest questions:   1)  Vapor barrier for exterior walls?  (Cedar tongue groove outside siding, 4 inches XPS board insulation, taping seams tyvek tape, vapor barrier? then sheet metal)  2) Back wall insulation?  (The flue exit)  It's not framed in yet.  Going to scroll through Jim's pictures for the thousandth time.

Thanks again Garners


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## deerhntr (Dec 12, 2009)

Rowcrop,

Lookin Good. Hope the move goes well. If you are anything like me, then you can't wait to get that unit fired up. 

Did you put the "Heaterman Jacket" on before the move? That insulation looks real slick. I am finishing up the "ends" insulation on my unit this weekend, and the final plumbing begins on Monday. I hope to strike my first match sometime late this coming week. Will you be able to fire your unit before the end of the year? I hope so. 

Good luck,


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## Rick Stanley (Dec 12, 2009)

Rowcrop,

You'll probably be done by the time you read this but I thought I'd mention it...........

I actually arranged for the guys that delivered my garn, to set it in place for me because I'm old, crippled and dumb

Anyway, they brought a big forklift with them and wheeled it off the lowbed, down the paved driveway and right into the building. I had chalk marks on the floor and wall for exactly where I wanted it placed. After they sat it down with the forklift, they still had to move it another 20 feet and place the foamboard insulation under it. 

Four guys with big 6 ft long pry-bars scooted that thing around on the cement floor like it was a cardboard box. They slide it into place (no pipes or wheels) and pryed up one end/corner at a time to place the insulation under it. DONE!! Maybe took half an hour. These garns aren't nearly as hard to move around as they seem to be.

Anyway, Good Luck!!


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 12, 2009)

deerhunter,  I'm dying to get it fired up.  Your online blog is excellent.  I guess I decided hearth to be my online blog.  Hope that's acceptable.  My goal stands to light a fire by new years.  That will depend on availability of parts I need for piping.   Tomorrow is blown because of christmas party.   I'll follow your progess closely.

Rick, I've also been following your online blog.  Very well done as well.  Fun seeing the variation in the projects.  I made sure I was well equiped today.  The pics are cool but I have some videos with sound I need to learn to upload to youtube.

Things went according to plan with exception of the garn lifting the front end of the tractor.  Required a little backhoe support.  I think top holes need to be 1/4 thicker, the bottom fork rails to be continuously boxed in, and pry points along the outside edge rail.  I bent a loop with a chain but that's about the extent of the damage.  I'm going to go over it and touch it up with some paint.  My dad has been a critic of the Garn's moveability.  A 3rd center hole beefed up would be his biggest gripe along with the non enclosed forklift holes.

Here's some pics.  will work on those vids.

Thanks for the support.


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## deerhntr (Dec 13, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Things went according to plan with exception of the garn lifting the front end of the tractor.  Required a little backhoe support.  I think top holes need to be 1/4 thicker, the bottom fork rails to be continuously boxed in, and pry points along the outside edge rail.  I bent a loop with a chain but that's about the extent of the damage.  I'm going to go over it and touch it up with some paint.  My dad has been a critic of the Garn's moveability.  A 3rd center hole beefed up would be his biggest gripe along with the non enclosed forklift holes.
> 
> Here's some pics.  will work on those vids.
> 
> Thanks for the support.



When I lifted mine the first time off the trailer I got some bending on the top rigging holes. After that I used a steel beam as a "Weight Spreader". Worked  real nice. There is no doubt the GARN is a big beast, your pop is right. Just not many options when you are storing 2000 gallons of hot water. Still think it is one of the better solutions

Good luck


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 13, 2009)

Deerhunter,

None of the tools I had at my disposal could lift from above, like you did, which is ideal for the garn.   Betcha made that MFWD squat!  What I'm saying is there is always room for improvement on any piece of machinery.  

I did some hunting yesterday, shot some starlings out of the tree.  They were eyeballing that freshly untarped Garn.  3 birds, 12 gauge spread shot.  I despise starlings.

Did you hear that AGCO tractors won't be orange anymore?

Reed


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## deerhntr (Dec 13, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Deerhunter,
> 
> None of the tools I had at my disposal could lift from above, like you did, which is ideal for the garn.   Betcha made that MFWD squat!  What I'm saying is there is always room for improvement on any piece of machinery.
> 
> ...



Reed,

I was fortunate, the loader was pretty much at capacity, and yup she was a squattin!

As for AGCO orange, I bet it won't be green. Speaking of green. I have an old oliver too!. It is a '69 1650, no loader like your's though. I love it. My son and I rebuilt the PTO last winter, it is good as new. They just don't make'em like that anymore.

Keep on those starlings, but take a deer out of the 28 acre wood lot you have there. Nothing like corn fed venison!


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 13, 2009)

I think they are going back to "white" grey on the new AGCOs.  .  That tractor you have is a popular one.  Here's the oli club I joined recently.  http://www.buckeyeoliver.org/  My 550 is broke down.  Hydraulic pump shaft broken, we think.  750 dollar pump. 40th anniversary for it.  Some party.    It's on the back burner until the Garn is up and running.

Never hunted a day in my life.   I'm good at chasing out 16 point bucks with my atv.  Was 5 feet behind one going 50 mph across my field.  I seem to be good at hitting them with the semi.

Heres a couple videos, they are ok.  Girlfriend has steady hands at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9slyv_oH8g

http://www.youtube.com/user/speedycarey1#p/a/u/1/1t1In3mX9RI


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## heaterman (Dec 14, 2009)

If you ever get to a point where you feel there are too many of those 16 pointers running around I'd be more than happy to help you "thin the herd". Season was really poor up here. I think last winter was a lot harder on the speed beef than the DNR is acknowledging. My brother the butcher usually processes about 900-1100 in a normal year and they were down to about 700 this fall.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 15, 2009)

You are welcome to hunt anytime, heaterman.  I like the nickname "speed beef", haven't heard that before.  I think the season around here was pretty solid.  No one pulled anything out of here, but I've been seeing big bucks for years over here.  The garn sweater arrived today.  Nicely packaged on a pallet.  Forklift made quick work of it, into the barn.  Wanted to unpack it, but not ready.  It doesn't matter who transports things here, they ALWAYS get off the driveway after I specifically tell them I'll be pissed if they do.  

Closed in back wall, insulated 2 walls with foamboard and had a nice visit with grandma.  Will finish insulation easily tomorrow and start back in on sheet metal.  Overrun with materials, all showing up at once!


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 18, 2009)

What did you guys use to insulate the back wall where the flue comes out at?

I'm planning on using unfaced r-30 fiberglass batts.    How close to the flue should the insulation go?


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## deerhntr (Dec 18, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> What did you guys use to insulate the back wall where the flue comes out at?
> 
> I'm planning on using unfaced r-30 fiberglass batts.    How close to the flue should the insulation go?



Reed,

I used the same "Rock wool" batts I used to insulate the cylinder. The "rockwool" can directly contact the vent surface. The insulation has a service temp of 1000F, but the facing is 150F. I removed the facing around the vent stack.


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## slowzuki (Dec 18, 2009)

That agco looks a lot like my MF5455 with ALO loader on it.  Its a pretty strong loader, I leave my radials at low pressure usually for comfort on the road but the loader will squat them down hard moving big stuff.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 19, 2009)

Finally to the point where I could start assembling some of the Garn.  Got all of the elements in, 2 person job.  I climbed down inside to steady the long electrodes while the gf twisted them in.    Spent more time reading the three manuals than actually assembling.  Motor on, door adjusted and a new list of things to chase down.

I'm 100% done insulating, including filling in gaps.  I'm itchy and scratchy but at least moving on.

Here's a couple pics:  The insulation job on the exterior walls took two days.  4 inches of XPS foam board and foaming the cracks.  Took long time, but its 25 degrees out and the room is 60ish with a little ultra sonic heater.  Very satisfied.

Took me about an hour to put on the heaterman garn sweater and am very pleased with it.  Went together easy and fast, will look very professional when I can put the front and backs on.


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## Jim K in PA (Dec 20, 2009)

Looks great Reed!  Those new plated doors and cover plates add some nice bling to the green monster  :coolsmirk: 

Is that the Dectra electric supplement kit, or did you put together your own?  Did you get the controller for the electric?

I just came in from loading the GARN.  First load went from 140-158 in about 65 minutes with a full house load on it.  After reloading flue temp climbed back up to 475 on a mix of red oak, silver maple and some EWP.  She is just humming along, with a big column of water vapor the only outward sign she is burning.  Snow/wind is blowing hard tonight.  Upper teens for lows, and we are warm and smiling in a house with a silent oil furnace.  Man, this NEVER gets old . . .  :lol:


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 20, 2009)

Jim,   The Garn does have some new bling to it.  Seems to be pretty durable too.  I'm more into "what's under the hood" rather than the trim, but it's a nice addition.  I call it the premium package I got.  Electric backup wood/electric controller, 6 elements and box that has Garn name on the front.  I recall it was a $ 500 kit in all.  Hope I never need it. 

If I get along half as well as you, I'll consider this first season a success.


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## RowCropRenegade (Dec 26, 2009)

I'm planning on putting a ball valve and cap on my drain outlet.  Is brass the only option for the ball valve?  It's stainless ball with brass body.


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## Gooserider (Dec 27, 2009)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> I'm planning on putting a ball valve and cap on my drain outlet.  Is brass the only option for the ball valve?  It's stainless ball with brass body.



Don't know about large sizes, but I know I was able to get a stainless body / stainless ball valve for the vent fitting on our pool filter (1/4" NPT as I recall)  Wasn't all that hard to find either, as I got it from either the local True Value or Home Despot - I forget which...  They might also make a cast iron version, I'm not sure...

Gooserider


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## RowCropRenegade (Jan 1, 2010)

I had a great holidays, hope my hearth friends did too.

I'm finally done sheet metaling.  Takes alot of time cutting it and figuring.  The hallway is my primary wood storage area, with back access door to garn.    It was difficult to assemble in the right order.

Had to finish the sheet metal cause of the material was taking up most the workspace.  Got a guy to do the flashing around doorways so I can concentrate on piping.

Have spent alot of time documenting, taking pictures, rereading Dan holohan books, reading new and old posts on here.  I've built a schematic of my current oil boiler piping and the new addition.  I did make it out of legos.  I'm planning on making a new thread in the coming days, cause I see it less related to the Garn and more so related to the entire boiler rooom.

I haven't purchased anything so far including pumps, heat exchanger and piping.  Should be interesting.

Here's some eyecandy for you all.


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## deerhntr (Jan 2, 2010)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> I had a great holidays, hope my hearth friends did too.
> 
> I'm finally done sheet metaling.  Takes alot of time cutting it and figuring.  The hallway is my primary wood storage area, with back access door to garn.    It was difficult to assemble in the right order.
> 
> ...



Reed,
Looking Good! Happy New Year Too! I know you can't wait 

I really like the Insulation Jacket. I have a Question regarding the Jacket. Does the Front Face insulation take the place of the Drywall wall recommended in the GARN install manual, or are you going to still install the wall? Heaterman did a very nice job on the jacket. Dectra should just offer that as an option for purchase when ordering the unit.



			
				RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> I haven't purchased anything so far including pumps, heat exchanger and piping.  Should be interesting.



When shopping for your HX, you may want to contact Chris Allis At Allis Online Store for pricing on his GBE line on heat exchangers. He was had the best numbers I could find, <$400 for a 5x12 50-Plate 1-1/4" MPT. His pump prices and fittings were comparable to elsewhere, but the HX is worth a look.

Keep up to good progress, and keep us posted.


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## RowCropRenegade (Jan 3, 2010)

Russ,

It's a process.  Year end and holidays take up alot of time.  But its piping season here.  I'll be sure to check out what Chris Allis has.   I haven't determined the size I need.  

I'm NOT installing a front wall.  Not required with this kit.  Like heaterman says, you gotta get pretty wild to comprimise the front insulation.  I love the accessbility without that wall.  How is your Garn treating you during this cold spell?

Reed


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## deerhntr (Jan 3, 2010)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Russ,
> 
> It's a process.  Year end and holidays take up alot of time.  But its piping season here.  I'll be sure to check out what Chris Allis has.   I haven't determined the size I need.



Yea, I fully understand. It definitely takes time if you want the job done right!



			
				RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> How is your Garn treating you during this cold spell?
> 
> Reed



So far so good!. Last night the temp bottomed out @15F, with a wind chill of 0. When I put the Garn to bed with a full load at 10PM, the water temp was 184F, and I just got in from firing it and walking the dogs at 7AM, and when I went out, the GARN was at 152F. Thats about 530,000 BTUs, or about 60K btus/hr.  The house is about 70F. Not so bad. The one observation so far, is I seem to be burning more wood than I thought I would. Not sure why. It may be a learning experience on how much to burn, also I still have not finished the front insulating. I sent heaterman a pm to see if I could buy the front face insulation from him, instead of building the wall. I really like that system. I will figure it out.

Russ


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## TCaldwell (Jan 3, 2010)

Russ, this is my 4 th winter with the garn, my house is 85yrs old, insulation has been upgraded where possible during renovations, the temperature does not affect the heatloss as much as the wind does, this morning it is 10degf, but wind chill of -8degf, my heatloss is not far off yours,but with the wind sometimes the garn has a light lunch as well!


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## deerhntr (Jan 3, 2010)

TCaldwell said:
			
		

> Russ, this is my 4 th winter with the garn, my house is 85yrs old, insulation has been upgraded where possible during renovations, the temperature does not affect the heatloss as much as the wind does, this morning it is 10degf, but wind chill of -8degf, my heatloss is not far off yours,but with the wind sometimes the garn has a light lunch as well!


Tom,

I'm with you on the wind.....convection and maximum infiltration loss! I am working on building a one-wire temp sensor network(The data logger thread), and will be able to nail it down my GARN numbers a little better in the not to distant future. I have definitely noticed though cold without wind is easier to raise the temp, then cold and wind together, i.e. more BTUs/hr used. Today, wind gusts to 45 mph. Just put in a second load and it was 162F.


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