# Real, actual, fast rural internet is almost here.



## Sean in the woods (Nov 22, 2020)

{TL:DR It’s true.}

We recently retired and moved to 80 acres of forest about a mile from Lake Superior. Everything was great except ...

No cell. No Internet, except for satellite service. We knew this, and knew we could adapt. We were able to get a land line phone service and we got the fastest satellite based internet service available to us at the time. Internet speed was OK if there were no clouds in the sky. On a clear day I could get up to 3Mbs download speed, but if it was overcast, this would fall to just a trickle. If thick clouds passed south of us we lost internet entirely. There was also a data cap that prevented any kind of online entertainment like Netflix.

So, we adapted. Netflix DVD rental is still around and has most movies we want. The satellite internet service we had allows unlimited usage between 3:00 AM and 6:00 AM so we updated all our apps then (I am NOT a morning person).  This worked for us. Just.

Before we moved, while browsing my news feeds one morning, I read about the satellite internet service that SpaceX planned to build and that they would eventually have more than 12,000 satellites in low orbit acting as a mesh providing service to the entire planet. They claimed that the large number of satellites and their low orbit would allow everyone to enjoy hi speed speed internet service with low latency. My first reaction was “Riiiiight, I’ll believe it when I see it”.  I was interested enough to follow their progress in the coming months. Then we retired, sold the house in the suburbs, bought a home in the woods and life got busy.

While we were learning to live without good internet, SpaceX was quietly doing what they said they would. They got FCC approval and started putting up satellites 60 at a time on a regular basis. Before long, they had over 900 satellites in orbit and opened a beta testing program to the public.

The public beta is initially only open to the northern US and southern Canada. Beta testers have to purchase the hardware for $500 and there is a $99 monthly fee. They said high speeds and low latency are available today and will improve as satellites continue to be added. They also said that beta testers should expect short outages as the service is tweaked and things they discover get fixed.

After lot’s of thought and conversation with my wife, in July I applied for the pubic beta program. I got my invitation 2 weeks ago and ordered the hardware that day.  It arrived 2 days ago. Setup was surprisingly simple.

I now have download speeds from 120Mbs to 190Mbs on a clear day, and 57Mbs to 98Mbs when the clouds roll in. We haven’t had a good storm yet so that test is still pending. So far it has been *wonderful*.

They plan to go live with the service to the general public sometime in 2021. I have no idea what the price or terms will be. The public beta program is still accepting applications.


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## ABMax24 (Nov 22, 2020)

I've been following this as well, pretty cool tech on part of Starlink. Unfortunately I am too far north at the moment to be a part of the beta test, not that we need it as we already have fast and reliable service on cable, but many in the area don't.

You mention your speeds but do you know what you are getting for latency? From what I can see the latency is supposed to be quite low, that's what might tempt me to switch, on a good day I'm getting 100ms to servers in the Chicago area.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 22, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I've been following this as well, pretty cool tech on part of Starlink. Unfortunately I am too far north at the moment to be a part of the beta test, not that we need it as we already have fast and reliable service on cable, but many in the area don't.
> 
> You mention your speeds but do you know what you are getting for latency? From what I can see the latency is supposed to be quite low, that's what might tempt me to switch, on a good day I'm getting 100ms to servers in the Chicago area.


This is what I got this morning at 9AM with clear sky.




And this is what I just got with about 80% overcast.



I think the loaded latency is more real.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 22, 2020)

Got this moments after the last one. Still 80% overcast.



Jumps around a bit as the satellites whizz by.


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## ABMax24 (Nov 22, 2020)

This is what I get, I always get 120 download, but my latency is all over the map.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 22, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> This is what I get, I always get 120 download, but my latency is all over the map.
> 
> View attachment 267437


I would’ve expected cable to be more steady than that. I wonder if the problem is between the cable company and its connection to the Internet itself.

With good download but high latency, what kind of symptoms do you see on your end?


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## ABMax24 (Nov 22, 2020)

It's something to do with my cable company, but it's been this way for 3.5 years now. A big part of it is simply distance, I'm a long ways from the majority of the servers on the internet.

Honestly it operates normally for the vast majority of uses, online gaming is the only place it comes into question.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

Never been an issue down here (lower, just north of the Ohio line).  I can do in the excess of 220 MBS and more if I want to pay for it.  All fiber optic here and privately held.

Gone are the days of dial up but cell service is still spotty, not that it matters, I don't have many people I want to talk to and I despise texting..

Push comes to shove and no cell service, I can always use my SAT phone but it's an expensive date.  I have it for hunting trips with no cell service available.  Works anywhere in the world, all satellite direct communication but again, it comes at a price (around 2 bucks a minute, voice or data transmission and the transfer speed is super).


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2020)

Are there monthly bandwidth restrictions? If so, how much? Do they have a coverage map?


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

Not a clue, my wife pays the bill so I cannot answer but I don't believe it's excessive.  It's excellent service and has been for a number of years.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 22, 2020)

I have a decent broadband connection through our local provider, Spectrum, but maybe I would make the switch if Starlink can keep the price the same after beta testing is done. Paying to be a beta tester is unappealing to me, so I will wait.


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## ABMax24 (Nov 22, 2020)

begreen said:


> Are there monthly bandwidth restrictions? If so, how much? Do they have a coverage map?



Have a look at this, I believe inside the 2 red bands are the trial area Starlink is targeting first, but as you can see they already have a massive amount of global coverage with the sats that are up now.

Click the "show" button at the top left to see active satellites.









						Starlink satellite tracker
					

Live view of SpaceX starlink satellite constellation and coverage.




					satellitemap.space


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## peakbagger (Nov 22, 2020)

Reportedly the big cost is the household ground equipment, Space X has to subsidize it to get the service out in public. The incremental cost to actually service more subscribers is reportedly quite low. What it does do is put a cap on the monopoly that cable companies have.


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 22, 2020)

What I wonder is, how many pieces of junk can you put up there before they start running into each other?????


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 22, 2020)

begreen said:


> Are there monthly bandwidth restrictions? If so, how much? Do they have a coverage map?


At the moment there are no data restrictions of any kind. Yesterday the Starlink engineers held an “Ask me anything” session on the StarLink forum at Reddit. The data cap question was asked. Here was their answer: 

“So we really don't want to implement restrictive data caps like people have encountered with satellite internet in the past.  Right now we're still trying to figure a lot of stuff out--we might have to do something in the future to prevent abuse and just ensure that everyone else gets quality service.”


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## tlc1976 (Nov 23, 2020)

Might be something to think about if Truestream doesn’t deliver, and they will be at 100mbps max. I’ve been signed up with them for a couple years. Last year they told me it would be this fall. Now they have no idea. I’ve got no other options if I want to work from home.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 23, 2020)

begreen said:


> Are there monthly bandwidth restrictions? If so, how much? Do they have a coverage map?


StarLink does not have a coverage map but I just noticed that there is a map of sorts here:

The known invite range is 44.9°N to 51.1°N at the moment.

The 900 or so satellites are in non-geosynchronous orbits so they cover all of the planet except the polar regions. Another launch of 60 satellites is scheduled for tonight, BTW.

Here is a live map of all the satellites   And here is an how to for the map


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## Bad LP (Nov 23, 2020)

Hummm. Very interesting to the degree I need to look deeper into this.
Getting tired of paying for DSL that is very slow and there is no way I'll be seeing CATV anytime soon.


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## MTASH (Nov 23, 2020)

Interesting indeed.  I am in the beta test zone but not sure I want to try it yet for the cost involved.  We have no access to cable/dsl/whatever, so are on a radio-based relay system to the nearest city. I just tested at 12 Mbps down/7 Mbps up.


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## tlc1976 (Nov 23, 2020)

Looks like I just squeak by at 45.3.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 23, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> Hummm. Very interesting to the degree I need to look deeper into this.
> Getting tired of paying for DSL that is very slow and there is no way I'll be seeing CATV anytime soon.


What kinds of speeds do you see at the lake? Today I tested our Spectrum connection at 110 mbps download and 11 mbps upload, and that's with storm conditions. Starlink won't make financial sense for us unless they can bring the price down.


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## Bad LP (Nov 23, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> What kinds of speeds do you see at the lake? Today I tested our Spectrum connection at 110 mbps download and 11 mbps upload, and that's with storm conditions. Starlink won't make financial sense for us unless they can bring the price down.


My last DSL speed test was on 11-12. I was having serious problems with everything. Down was 2.05. Up was 0.77. Ping was 37.
On 10-29 it was 1.35, 0.69 and 32 respectively.
It's 31.00 plus fees per month and useless.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 23, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> My last DSL speed test was on 11-12. I was having serious problems with everything. Down was 2.05. Up was 0.77. Ping was 37.
> On 10-29 it was 1.35, 0.69 and 32 respectively.
> It's 31.00 plus fees per month and useless.


We pay $75 for our internet and it is one of the cheapest deals offered by our provider. We could knock off $10/month by dropping the VOIP which we never have connected. If I were in your region Starlink would be looking pretty awesome.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 23, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> We pay $75 for our internet and it is one of the cheapest deals offered by our provider. We could knock off $10/month by dropping the VOIP which we never have connected. If I were in your region Starlink would be looking pretty awesome.


@SpaceBus  What is your latitude?


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## SpaceBus (Nov 24, 2020)

Sean in the woods said:


> @SpaceBus  What is your latitude?


We are around 44.71 latitude. I checked the "coverage map" for the beta area and we are in it. My wife and I would try the service if we didn't already have fast internet and not working for the past year has put a damper on non essential spending.


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## begreen (Nov 25, 2020)

Sean in the woods said:


> StarLink does not have a coverage map but I just noticed that there is a map of sorts here:
> 
> The known invite range is 44.9°N to 51.1°N at the moment.
> 
> ...


We're in that latitude but have not received an invite yet. They may already have enough beta sites in WA state.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 25, 2020)

begreen said:


> We're in that latitude but have not received an invite yet. They may already have enough beta sites in WA state.


When did you apply for the beta on their website?


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## SidecarFlip (Nov 25, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> Hummm. Very interesting to the degree I need to look deeper into this.
> Getting tired of paying for DSL that is very slow and there is no way I'll be seeing CATV anytime soon.


Considering the crap on TV today, I prefer not to view it anyway.


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## WiscWoody (Nov 26, 2020)

Wow I bet your just giddy to get that kind of internet in the sticks!? I also live in a very rural area but we have a fairly good DSL service here, it isn‘t blazing fast at 25Mb/s down and 2 up but it’s only $40 a month, no fees or taxes added and they say as long as your in good standing it’ll never go up. So far I’ve had it for ten years and the price has only gone down when they dropped the fees and taxes. Also there‘s no limits and its fast enough to stream 4K TV so I’m ok with it. A friend pays $140 for crappy 2Mb/s DSL in a rural area. They make him pay for a wired phone and he doesn‘t even have it hooked up and if he complains about the speed they tell him if he don’t like it to drop the service so he’s looking forward to StarLink.


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 26, 2020)

WiscWoody said:


> Wow I bet your just giddy to get that kind of internet in the sticks!? I also live in a very rural area but we have a fairly good DSL service here, it isn‘t blazing fast at 25Mb/s down and 2 up but it’s only $40 a month, no fees or taxes added and they say as long as your in good standing it’ll never go up. So far I’ve had it for ten years and the price has only gone down when they dropped the fees and taxes. Also there‘s no limits and its fast enough to stream 4K TV so I’m ok with it. A friend pays $140 for crappy 2Mb/s DSL in a rural area. They make him pay for a wired phone and he doesn‘t even have it hooked up and if he complains about the speed they tell him if he don’t like it to drop the service so he’s looking forward to StarLink.


Yep, giddy is a good description. We are too far out to get DSL, Cable, Cell or Microwave. Satellite is it.


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## festerw (Nov 27, 2020)

WiscWoody said:


> Wow I bet your just giddy to get that kind of internet in the sticks!? I also live in a very rural area but we have a fairly good DSL service here, it isn‘t blazing fast at 25Mb/s down and 2 up but it’s only $40 a month, no fees or taxes added and they say as long as your in good standing it’ll never go up. So far I’ve had it for ten years and the price has only gone down when they dropped the fees and taxes. Also there‘s no limits and its fast enough to stream 4K TV so I’m ok with it. A friend pays $140 for crappy 2Mb/s DSL in a rural area. They make him pay for a wired phone and he doesn‘t even have it hooked up and if he complains about the speed they tell him if he don’t like it to drop the service so he’s looking forward to StarLink.



If your friend has any kind of cell signal, wireless could be an option. I've been running it for the last 3 years. Usually somewhere in the 10-20 range, but I recently switched to Verizon and I'm seeing 40-50. Both are under $80/month.

I just put in a request for Starlink though, I'd pay extra for those speeds but I'm on the south side of Lake Erie so I'm not expecting it anytime soon.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 27, 2020)

festerw said:


> If your friend has any kind of cell signal, wireless could be an option. I've been running it for the last 3 years. Usually somewhere in the 10-20 range, but I recently switched to Verizon and I'm seeing 40-50. Both are under $80/month.
> 
> I just put in a request for Starlink though, I'd pay extra for those speeds but I'm on the south side of Lake Erie so I'm not expecting it anytime soon.


When we were living in an RV full time we used T-Mobile with unlimited hotspot plans. We were able to stream video and  do everything else just fine. I feel like any connection faster than 25 mbps up and 10 down is just gravy.


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## festerw (Nov 27, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> When we were living in an RV full time we used T-Mobile with unlimited hotspot plans. We were able to stream video and  do everything else just fine. I feel like any connection faster than 25 mbps up and 10 down is just gravy.



They've fortunately started rolling out 4G Home Internet unlimited for a reasonable cost, deprioritization doesn't seem to affect this as much as the phone data.

The slower one worked when just my wife was home working, but we all ended up quarantined for 2 weeks with my exposure at work and it struggled with her and I working and my daughter attending school. So far no issues with VZW other than I hate giving them money.


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## begreen (Nov 27, 2020)

Ars Technica has some good articles on the process and progress.








						SpaceX Starlink has some hiccups as expected, but users are impressed
					

"Link stability is a little rough," but Netflix works great, one user says.




					arstechnica.com
				











						SpaceX Starlink users provide first impressions and unboxing pictures
					

"It feels like it's from the future... I am amazed at how well it works."




					arstechnica.com


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## Sean in the woods (Nov 27, 2020)

begreen said:


> Ars Technica has some good articles on the process and progress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Accurate articles but already becoming dated. Drop-outs and speed degradation has already begun to improve, at least where we are. 

And yeah, this feels like alien/future tech. Especially when it is first plugged in and you watch the dish tilt and rotate on its own as it finds the section of sky with the most satellites whizzing by, then self calibrate and lock it in. I’ve watched satellite TV installers take hours to do the same job.


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## begreen (Nov 27, 2020)

Sean in the woods said:


> Accurate articles but already becoming dated. Drop-outs and speed degradation has already begun to improve, at least where we are.
> 
> And yeah, this feels like alien/future tech. Especially when it is first plugged in and you watch the dish tilt and rotate on its own as it finds the section of sky with the most satellites whizzing by, then self calibrate and lock it in. I’ve watched satellite TV installers take hours to do the same job.


Yes, they point that out. The point of the beta program is to work out these problems and improve the system including the user interface. The goal is a simple plug&play experience. I see in WA state they now have 4 ground stations to improve connectivity too.  Word is by January that the coverage and reliability changes will be major.


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## blades (Dec 23, 2021)

WiscWoody said:


> Wow I bet your just giddy to get that kind of internet in the sticks!? I also live in a very rural area but we have a fairly good DSL service here, it isn‘t blazing fast at 25Mb/s down and 2 up but it’s only $40 a month, no fees or taxes added and they say as long as your in good standing it’ll never go up. So far I’ve had it for ten years and the price has only gone down when they dropped the fees and taxes. Also there‘s no limits and its fast enough to stream 4K TV so I’m ok with it. A friend pays $140 for crappy 2Mb/s DSL in a rural area. They make him pay for a wired phone and he doesn‘t even have it hooked up and if he complains about the speed they tell him if he don’t like it to drop the service so he’s looking forward to StarLink.


yep sounds like AT&T on your buddy's set up.


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## peakbagger (Dec 23, 2021)

Space X is in line for a big bunch of federal dollars to subsidize home internet for low income people (similar to the "Obama" cellphones that got so much derision in the conservative press). In order to get that money they had to prove a certain speed and latency. The trial period was designed as much to make sure they get the federal dollars as it was to do the testing. The new generation satellites are lot more capable than the prior generation,.


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## NorMi (Dec 23, 2021)

I signed up for it after we move here last year in mid-June to be notified when it became available.  The potential for it becoming available was a factor in moving to a place without any other good options.  They invited me to order it on 11 Dec 2020 and I've been using it since 22 Dec 2020.  Good stuff, finally bringing the rural US into the real internet age!  I used a Calyx 4G hotspot in the interim and the difference is night and day.  These days I usually get ~300 Mbps downstream and 10-15 Mbps upstream.


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## ABMax24 (Dec 23, 2021)

Starlink has a pretty good reputation around here, going to run a lot of the smaller outfits out of business because many of them are serving an entire neighborhood with a similar speed connection as a single Starlink dish gets.

Problem is availability, many areas here are now saturated and need more satellites to allow more customers, and the hardware is backordered. Many are being told end of 2022 or early 2023 before they will be connected.


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## mellow (Dec 29, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> What I wonder is, how many pieces of junk can you put up there before they start running into each other?????











						China Unhappy Its Space Station Had to Dodge SpaceX Starlink Satellites
					

The Chinese space agency complained to the UN about two evasive maneuvers required to avoid 'close encounters' with orbiting Starlink devices.




					www.pcmag.com


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## Sean in the woods (Dec 29, 2021)

mellow said:


> China Unhappy Its Space Station Had to Dodge SpaceX Starlink Satellites
> 
> 
> The Chinese space agency complained to the UN about two evasive maneuvers required to avoid 'close encounters' with orbiting Starlink devices.
> ...


SpaceX de-orbits old satellites so they can burn up in the atmosphere rather than leaving them up in orbit. That was what happened with the Chinese space station. They needed to do more due diligence assuring the path would be clear.


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## begreen (Jan 4, 2022)

Saw this today. Evidently there are a few bugs to work out with StarLink that weren't anticipated.


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## stoveliker (Jan 4, 2022)

SidecarFlip said:


> What I wonder is, how many pieces of junk can you put up there before they start running into each other?????











						The amount of space junk around Earth has hit a 'critical density' — and it could jeopardize our space missions
					

We have a bad feeling about this.




					www.businessinsider.com


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## mellow (Jan 5, 2022)

begreen said:


> Saw this today. Evidently there are a few bugs to work out with StarLink that weren't anticipated.



Great, now the Cat debates will spread to the Inglenook  

My Cat powered satellite downloads faster and longer than yours


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## stoveliker (Jan 5, 2022)

mellow said:


> Great, now the Cat debates will spread to the Inglenook
> 
> My Cat powered satellite downloads faster and longer than yours


yay, my internet is lower and slower than yours...?


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## Sean in the woods (Jan 10, 2022)

mellow said:


> Great, now the Cat debates will spread to the Inglenook
> 
> My Cat powered satellite downloads faster and longer than yours


Personally, I think Cat Assisted Downlink was fine, back in the day, but animal assisted data transfer technologies have made great strides recently. It has been proven in recent field trials that squirrels are the way to go. One can pack more squirrels per square inch (SSI) than cats can achieve. As the SSI goes up so to does the augmented data transfer rate. Simple science.


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