# Pacific Energy Super 27 vs. Lopi Endeavor



## isipwater (Jul 14, 2013)

Hi, 

This will be my first wood stove.  After lots of research, I have narrowed down our stove choices to either the Pacific Energy Super 27 or the Lopi Endeavor.

As I understand it, these are both good quality stoves. The one main difference is that the Endeavor has a bypass damper and the PE does not.

Are there any other important differences between these two stoves?

Thank you.

Here is the link to my original thread on my project:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/assistance-selecting-stove.110440/


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## BrotherBart (Jul 14, 2013)

The Super 27 is legendary. Do it.


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## fossil (Jul 14, 2013)

Not sure what is being referred to above in post #2, but the Lopi Endeavor wood stove has no tension adjustment or gaskets associated with the bypass damper.  The Endeavor is a good, solid, simple, steel stove with a nice firebox size and configuration.  The Super 27 is a great stove, as well.  Rick


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## lumbering on (Jul 14, 2013)

fossil said:


> Not sure what is being referred to above in post #2, but the Lopi Endeavor wood stove has no tension adjustment or gaskets associated with the bypass damper. The Endeavor is a good, solid, simple, steel stove with a nice firebox size and configuration. The Super 27 is a great stove, as well. Rick


 
My Lopi Leyden does, the bypass damper design must differ from the Endeavor. Feel free to delete or ignore.


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## aansorge (Jul 14, 2013)

The Super 27's are known for having very long burn times for its size (and not being a cat stove).  Both are super solid stoves with the overall build quality maybe slightly in the favor of the Lopi IMHO.


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## fossil (Jul 14, 2013)

^^ Right, the Leyden's a top-load downdraft stove. Very different in a number of ways from the Endeavor/Liberty type secondary burn tube stoves. Rick


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## Grisu (Jul 15, 2013)

I have the Super insert and would buy it again. Great heater; if your house is as well insulated as you say it should have no problem heating it. I like the N-S loading (although I think the Lopi is the same) and the baffle system is bomb-proof. The best burn-times I get are 8 to 9 hours but with some really dense hardwood (oak, black locust) you could probably extend that even more. That is the best you can get for a non-cat stove that size. If you like the dealer/installer do it.


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## stovelark (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi Isip-   Were you able to look at the Enviro stoves?   The 1700 Kodiak would be right up your alley.  If not, either of those stoves are good choices, but I like the PE secondary floating baffle system, very efficient, patented one of a kind design..
I'd think prices are about the same-   good luck.   You'll be happy with either stove too.


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## Sprinter (Jul 17, 2013)

It comes down to personal preference.  These were my first two choices and are technically comparable.  You will be happiest with whichever you like the better.


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## Dix (Jul 17, 2013)

I love my PE. Pretty much the same fire box.

It's an awesome heater.


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## isipwater (Jul 17, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> It comes down to personal preference. These were my first two choices and are technically comparable. You will be happiest with whichever you like the better.


 
So, in the end, what tipped you to choose the PE? Thanks.

Also, any problems with smoke coming in the house when starting fire or reloading since the PE does not have a bypass damper?  I am wondering if the Endeavor has an advantage given that it has a bypass damper and the PE does not.


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## isipwater (Jul 17, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi Isip- Were you able to look at the Enviro stoves? The 1700 Kodiak would be right up your alley. If not, either of those stoves are good choices, but I like the PE secondary floating baffle system, very efficient, patented one of a kind design..
> I'd think prices are about the same- good luck. You'll be happy with either stove too.


 
Can you please explain how the PE's secondary floating baffle system is unique or different than the Lopi Endeavor's baffle?

Also, what do you mean by "floating?" 

Thanks.


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## isipwater (Jul 17, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi Isip- Were you able to look at the Enviro stoves? The 1700 Kodiak would be right up your alley. If not, either of those stoves are good choices, but I like the PE secondary floating baffle system, very efficient, patented one of a kind design..
> I'd think prices are about the same- good luck. You'll be happy with either stove too.


 
I checked the Enviro 1700 but it does not have the clearances I need since I am short on space. Thanks for the suggestion though.


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## Grisu (Jul 17, 2013)

Here are pictures of the baffle of the PE Summit, the Super looks essentially the same: 
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-this-ones-answers-some-questions.9251/page-2
The metal block with the holes is the baffle. It sits on the metal holders to either side but is only secured with that pin in the back. It is very heavy but very durable, too. 

Here is a picture of the burn tubes of  Lopi: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lopi-endeavor-cleaning-questions-pics.89898/

If you want to know more I would suggest to go to your dealer(s) where they can show you the two baffles and how to get them out and back in. That is what you will need to do if you want to clean the chimney (at least for the Super, I assume also for the Lopi).


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2013)

The floating baffle is unique in that it combines the secondary distribution air, baffle and insulation all in a stainless box. This makes cleaning easier, eliminates the concerns about breaking the baffle board, and together with the stainless side rails, makes a simply rebuildable system. The mid-sized PEs also have a unique linked secondary control that works well to extend the burn.




	

		
			
		

		
	
click to enlarge


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## Sprinter (Jul 17, 2013)

isipwater said:


> So, in the end, what tipped you to choose the PE? Thanks.
> 
> Also, any problems with smoke coming in the house when starting fire or reloading since the PE does not have a bypass damper? I am wondering if the Endeavor has an advantage given that it has a bypass damper and the PE does not.


It was a close call, but in the end, I guess I liked the secondary/baffle system in the PE. Also, as I recall, the Lopi comes with feet only as opposed to a pedestal and my installation required an OAK (outside air). I wanted a pedestal to hide the OAK which was offset and would have looked awkward if exposed.

I will leave the bypass issue for others, but I don't think it's an issue.  I've never had a problem.

The secondary burning system on the Super27 consists of a hollow stainless box with holes in it which doubles as a baffle. The Lopi and most other models consists of tubes running under a passive baffle. The Super27 system works well, but frankly, so do the the more conventional tube systems. The bottom line is efficiency. I do like that the the secondary baffle on the Super27 can be easily removed for chimney cleaning which I did this week.


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## isipwater (Jul 17, 2013)

begreen said:


> The floating baffle is unique in that it combines the secondary distribution air, baffle and insulation all in a stainless box. This makes cleaning easier, eliminates the concerns about breaking the baffle board, and together with the stainless side rails, makes a simply rebuildable system. The mid-sized PEs also have a unique linked secondary control that works well to extend the burn.
> 
> View attachment 106502
> 
> ...


 
Very informative! It seems quite sturdy and well engineered.


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2013)

As a PE owner I admit a bit of bias. Both the PE and the Lopi are first class stoves. You won't go wrong with either choice.


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## isipwater (Jul 17, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Here are pictures of the baffle of the PE Summit, the Super looks essentially the same:
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-this-ones-answers-some-questions.9251/page-2
> The metal block with the holes is the baffle. It sits on the metal holders to either side but is only secured with that pin in the back. It is very heavy but very durable, too.
> 
> ...


 
Helpful comparison.


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## Grisu (Jul 17, 2013)

begreen said:


> As a PE owner I admit a bit of bias.


 
Yep, we PE owners just keep pounding Isipwater into submission. Where are the Lopi owners? They must be out there somewhere, don't they?


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## jeff_t (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> The mid-sized PEs also have a unique linked secondary control that works well to extend the burn.



I think this is what makes them stand out from all other 2 cu ft stoves.


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## Dave A. (Jul 18, 2013)

Can't speak about the Lopi but coming first from an insert with burn tubes and relatively light weight baffle boards sitting on them (Century), I much prefer the stainless baffle on the Summit insert with it's positive locking pin at the back.

The problem with the baffle tubes and boards with the Century insert was that when trying to load the stove full, the burn tubes on top got in the way and if I wasn't careful the baffle boards could get moved into an incorrect position leaving a gap (like burning with an open bypass) where I was burning inefficiently. Eventually I learned to regularly check the position of the boards to fix any gap shortly after it happened, but still the PE system is superior with a smooth and stable firebox top and was a factor in my selecting the Summit.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Can't speak about the Lopi but coming first from an insert with burn tubes and relatively light weight baffle boards sitting on them (Century), I much prefer the stainless baffle on the Summit insert with it's positive locking pin at the back.
> 
> The problem with the baffle tubes and boards with the Century insert was that when trying to load the stove full, the burn tubes on top got in the way and if I wasn't careful the baffle boards could get moved into an incorrect position leaving a gap (like burning with an open bypass) where I was burning inefficiently. Eventually I learned to regularly check the position of the boards to fix any gap shortly after it happened, but still the PE system is superior with a smooth and stable firebox top and was a factor in my selecting the Summit.


Right.  I've seen quite a few people here discussing how easy it is to break or move a baffle.  That won't happen with PE's stainless box.


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

The Lopi Endeavor uses firebrick over the tubes for a baffle. It is tough, though I suppose it could be displaced if bumped hard.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

Is there a WAF factor here at all?  Sometimes that can be the tie-breaker


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## WoodMan33 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater a stove that you could look at if you want is the Lennox Grandview 230 woodstove. Here is the link to ithttp://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com/products/stoves/grandview/ . Good luck with whatever you choose. Would love to see pictures after your stove is installed.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

WoodMan33 said:


> isipwater a stove that you could look at if you want is the* Lennox Grandview 230* woodstove.


I'll +1 that. I liked that stove too when I was looking. It doesn't get too much play on the forum because it's pretty new but it's worth considering for sure.


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

WoodMan33 said:


> isipwater a stove that you could look at if you want is the Lennox Grandview 230 woodstove. Here is the link to ithttp://www.lennoxhearthproducts.com/products/stoves/grandview/ . Good luck with whatever you choose. Would love to see pictures after your stove is installed.


 
If I see that correctly it needs a rear clearance of 12-3/8. The OP is looking for something with tight clearances. Nice stove though.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

Grisu said:


> If I see that correctly it needs a rear clearance of 12-3/8. The OP is looking for something with tight clearances. Nice stove though.


I think that's for single wall stovepipe.  For double wall, it's 6-3/8.


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I think that's for single wall stovepipe. For double wall, it's 6-3/8.


 
I stand corrected.  (Still favor the PE.  )


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

Nice looking stove. It's made locally. What's the 230 and 300 selling for?


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> Nice looking stove. It's made locally. What's the 230 and 300 selling for?


As I recall, it (the 230) was in the same range as the Super27 and Lopi Endeavor. Maybe a hundred or so more.


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## Seanm (Jul 18, 2013)

I to love my PE stove which I had installed in October. If it was an option and I had to do it again I would get one without the ash clean out. There has been discussions around them leaking a bit. Once I heard this I packed mine with ash and didn't use it again.


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## Seanm (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> As I recall, it (the 230) was in the same range as the Super27 and Lopi Endeavor. Maybe a hundred or so more.


 Sprinter does yours have the ash clean out? and if so what have you experienced with it?


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

Seanm said:


> I to love my PE stove which I had installed in October. If it was an option and I had to do it again I would get one without the ash clean out. There has been discussions around them leaking a bit. Once I heard this I packed mine with ash and didn't use it again.


I'll agree with the cleanout option.  In my case that was the way it came as the Heritage model.  It's not been a problem, but I only tried to use it once and found it to be pretty useless.  Shoveling ash into a bucket (metal for safety!)  is much better. The tray  shouldn't be a problem, though, just not useful.


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

It came with our T6 as standard. I tried it a couple times and then stopped. It is pretty useless for our needs. If you have the option I would recommend skipping the ash pan option.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> It came with our T6 as standard. I tried it a couple times and then stopped. It is pretty useless for our needs. If you have the option I would recommend skipping the ash pan option.


I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the Heritage with the tray is a pretty standard configuration for the Super27 pedestal.  I know I didn't order it that way, it just came that way.


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> So, in the end, what tipped you to choose the PE? Thanks.
> 
> Also, any problems with smoke coming in the house when starting fire or reloading since the PE does not have a bypass damper?  I am wondering if the Endeavor has an advantage given that it has a bypass damper and the PE does not.


The bypass is nice and will make a huge difference if you have even a marginal draft! If you have a tall well drafting chimney, you might not see much of an advantage. It's also nice to use upon start up of a new load of wood.

The PE baffle does come out nice and is very well designed. The Lopi baffle is simple, very simple and effective. It comes apart easily too, in the event that you ever need too. With the bypass, there is no need to remove the baffle for cleaning. Open the bypass, sweep the flue and it all falls into the firebox. You can run a flexible broom back and forth on top of the baffle to get the flyash off of it. No sweat!


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## Seanm (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the Heritage with the tray is a pretty standard configuration for the Super27 pedestal. I know I didn't order it that way, it just came that way.


 Yeah it could be a standard feature and sounded better in theory than in practice. I cant recall if I was given a choice. I used it a few times and filled it in. Seems just as easy if not easier to scoop it out with a little shovel.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> The bypass is nice and will make a huge difference if you have even a marginal draft! If you have a tall well drafting chimney, you might not see much of an advantage. It's also nice to use upon start up of a new load of wood.
> 
> The PE baffle does come out nice and is very well designed. The Lopi baffle is simple, very simple and effective. It comes apart easily too, in the event that you ever need too. With the bypass, there is no need to remove the baffle for cleaning. Open the bypass, sweep the flue and it all falls into the firebox. You can run a flexible broom back and forth on top of the baffle to get the flyash off of it. No sweat!


Good to know about the Lopi's system. My chimney system is only 13' in a mild climate, so I may have benefited from the bypass on the Lopi, but draft really hasn't been a problem even in the mild temps at least not that I was aware of. 

I just now finished cleaning my chimney and reinstalled the baffle. The baffle is a bit awkward to handle but not too bad. It's kind of clumsy to reinstall, but it will be easier next time (this was my first season).


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## WoodMan33 (Jul 18, 2013)

When I was looking at wood stoves last year the PE Super 27 was my top choice, and was told the quality and construction of the Lennox Grandview 230 was sturdier, and what got me was the Thermal Fin Technology creates 32% percent surface heat then than a standard stove design. That is what swayed me but maybe he was just a good salesman and I was the sucker lol


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

WoodMan33 said:


> When I was looking at wood stoves last year the PE Super 27 was my top choice, and was told the quality and construction of the Lennox Grandview 230 was sturdier, and what got me was the Thermal Fin Technology creates 32% percent surface heat then than a standard stove design. That is what swayed me but maybe he was just a good salesman and I was the sucker lol


So you did get one?   I was also taken with the fins, along with the large window.  The fins probably do contribute to convection transfer, especially if a blower is used, but at the expense of some radiant transfer.  Nevertheless, it seemed like a nice stove and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.


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## aansorge (Jul 18, 2013)

The 230 supposedly has up to 12 hour burn time and the Lennox 300 14 hrs.  It would be interesting to see what customers are getting.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

aansorge said:


> *The 230 supposedly has up to 12 hour burn time* and the Lennox 300 14 hrs. It would be interesting to see what customers are getting.


That's right in line with the Super27 and some other 2+ cf stoves.  I've never tried to get 12 hours in mine, but some people have.  That's only going to happen under ideal conditions anyway.


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## neumsky (Jul 18, 2013)

I would go for the Jotul haha


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

neumsky said:


> I would go for the Jotul haha


Nothing wrong with that either.  Fact is, it's hard to find a really bad stove (there are a few...)


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Is there a WAF factor here at all? Sometimes that can be the tie-breaker


 
I had to google the WAF factor to understand. Very important factor.  She is more in favor of a more modern/clean lines looking stove to match our 1950's ranch.  I have been given the go ahead on the PE Super 27, PE Fusion, Avalon Spokane 1750, and the Lopi Endeavor.  So, still no clear tie breaker yet.


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

For a modern looking stove I still prefer the Osburn Matrix. I remember you got the recommendation and the clearances should fit. Do you mind telling why you don't consider it anymore?


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> PE Super 27, PE Fusion, Avalon Spokane 1750, and the Lopi Endeavor


All good choices. I prefer the Endeavor over the 1750 personally. But you can save a lot of money with the same results is guess. I've always been impressed with the endeavor! We put in a lot of 1750's, and we never have any complaints.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

Actually, this does seem like a nice stove and does meet my clearance needs. I love having more options, thank you.  Wow, this is hard.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

Actually, this does seem like a nice stove and does meet my clearance needs. I love having more options, thank you.  Wow, this is hard.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> Wow, this is hard.


HeeHee. Tell me about it...


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

Here is a longer thread about the Matrix: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-osburn-matrix-product-line.89569/
You can also PM Fyrebug who works for Osburn/SBI.


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## sticks (Jul 18, 2013)

A pedestal is an option on the Endeavor.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

sticks said:


> A pedestal is an option on the Endeavor.


Thanks for pointing that out.  It could make a difference in making a decision.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> The bypass is nice and will make a huge difference if you have even a marginal draft! If you have a tall well drafting chimney, you might not see much of an advantage. It's also nice to use upon start up of a new load of wood.
> 
> The PE baffle does come out nice and is very well designed. The Lopi baffle is simple, very simple and effective. It comes apart easily too, in the event that you ever need too. With the bypass, there is no need to remove the baffle for cleaning. Open the bypass, sweep the flue and it all falls into the firebox. You can run a flexible broom back and forth on top of the baffle to get the flyash off of it. No sweat!


 
For my install, I am anticipating a straight (no bends) double walled chimney that will exit the roof in a central location. I am hoping these factors will give me good draft, so maybe the Lopi bypass damper will not make much of a difference for me.


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> For my install, I am anticipating a straight (no bends) double walled chimney that will exit the roof in a central location. I am hoping these factors will give me good draft, so maybe the Lopi bypass damper will not make much of a difference for me.


 
How tall will it be? If it's under 15', it can make a big difference.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

Grisu said:


> For a modern looking stove I still prefer the Osburn Matrix. I remember you got the recommendation and the clearances should fit. Do you mind telling why you don't consider it anymore?


 
Good question. We do like the looks of this stove. The two downsides are the price and the depth of the stove.  The price starts around $2700, which is a bit more than the PE Fusion or the Endeavor. The overall depth of the stove is about 2 inches more than the Fusion and the Endeavor. Sure looks like a nice stove though.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> All good choices. I prefer the Endeavor over the 1750 personally. But you can save a lot of money with the same results is guess. I've always been impressed with the endeavor! We put in a lot of 1750's, and we never have any complaints.


 
Do you think the extra $500 for the Endeavor is worth it vs. the 1750?


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> How tall will it be? If it's under 15', it can make a big difference.


 

I am not sure of the exact height but click on this link to see the estimate I got:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BypDkSrAqt-AVnFoRl9mSmRhZjA/edit?usp=sharing


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> Good question. We do like the looks of this stove. The two downsides are the price and the depth of the stove. The price starts around $2700, which is a bit more than the PE Fusion or the Endeavor. The overall depth of the stove is about 2 inches more than the Fusion and the Endeavor. Sure looks like a nice stove though.


 
Believe me, it's no PE Fusion. Theres no way it's worth more money than a Fusion!


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> Do you think the extra $500 for the Endeavor is worth it vs. the 1750?


 
To me it is. It's really based on looks only though.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

This baffle bypass issue is still a mystery to me. Lopi describes it as a positive design attribute, but I've also heard that the only reason that Lopi has a bypass on these models is that it's inherent design requires a bypass whereas other designs simply don't need it. My chimney is only 12' above the stove and I haven't experienced a draft problem with new starts.

I can't seem to find any really objective information about it, but I'm inclined to think that it's unimportant and maybe just an unnecessary complication.


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

For the record, my chimney is 13 ft and I have no problems whatsoever with the draft in the Super. Sometimes I think it would be even better if I could dampen it down more. But I have to say that my installer right away pointed at the possibility of this being a problem. I decided to try it anyway and I am glad I did.


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> This baffle bypass issue is still a mystery to me. Lopi describes it as a positive design attribute, but I've also heard that the only reason that Lopi has a bypass on these models is that it's inherent design requires a bypass whereas other designs simply don't need it. My chimney is only 12" above the stove and I haven't experienced a draft problem with new starts.
> 
> I can't seem to find any really objective information about it, but I'm inclined to think that it's unimportant and maybe just an unnecessary complication.


 
Some stoves are obviously designed differently. The bypass is definitely an asset though. It allows faster start ups without cracking the door, and it must have something to do with efficiency. I'm sure Travis Ind. wouldn't add it for no reason.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> To me it is. It's really based on looks only though.


 
If I understand you correctly, the extra $500 for the Endeavor vs. the 1750 is more for looks than function?  You see no added functional value for the Endeavor's bypass damper.

Doesn't the Endeavor's bypass damper at least make it easier to clean the chimney vs the 1750?


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> My chimney is only 12" above the stove


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> If I understand you correctly, the extra $500 for the Endeavor vs. the 1750 is more for looks than function? You see no added functional value for the Endeavor's bypass damper.
> 
> Doesn't the Endeavor's bypass damper at least make it easier to clean the chimney vs the 1750?


 
Yes, I see added value for the bypass. I love my bypass!


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## Grisu (Jul 18, 2013)

Bypass, shmypass... who needs that? (Proud PE owner.)


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2013)

Don't have one but a bypass has to be great for start-ups and reloads. So you don't end up singing "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.".


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


>


I know, I know. No draft problems, though... So far...

I should add that it's double wall pipe to the class A


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> That's right in line with the Super27 and some other 2+ cf stoves. I've never tried to get 12 hours in mine, but some people have. That's only going to happen under ideal conditions anyway.


 
Tom up in Bellingham got 16 hrs with the Spectrum (same firebox). Our next door neighbor has gotten 12 hrs without really trying.


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## webby3650 (Jul 18, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I know, I know. No draft problems, though... So far...
> 
> I should add that it's double wall pipe to the class A


 It was the 12" rather than 12' I was referring to. Bad pun I guess.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> Tom up in Bellingham got 16 hrs with the Spectrum (same firebox). Our next door neighbor has gotten 12 hrs without really trying.


Someday I'll try that.  Get some high BTU wood and fill-er-up and crank 'er down.  Is that about it?  I don't really have a need for those kind of burn times any more,  but it would be fun to try for it.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> It was the 12" rather than 12' I was referring to. Bad pun I guess.


oops.  Glad I wasn't designing the Hubble...


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Don't have one but a bypass has to be great for start-ups and reloads. So you don't end up singing "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes.".


 
Depends on one's flue and outside temps.  I don't get that unless I try to burn above 50F outside.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> Depends on one's flue and outside temps. I don't get that unless I try to burn above 50F outside.


 
You get smoke coming into your house if you try burning when it is over 50F outside?


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> Depends on one's flue and outside temps. I don't get that unless I try to burn above 50F outside.


 

Yeah I gotta get me one of them fancy stoves and hopefully someday I will figure out this wood burning stuff. But I still get a little smoke coming out on reloads even though that darn draft sucks the door shut if I move it within a half inch of closed when it is hot.

Maybe even someday just get a "cup" of stuff out of the pipe after a whole season.

Life in the cheap seats I guess.


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## isipwater (Jul 18, 2013)

I am learning quite a bit on this forum, thanks to you all for your help.  

Tomorrow I am picking up a Morso 2mm steel hearth pad for what ever stove I end up going with. 

Then, I am going to see a PE Fusion for the first time in person at one stove shop and then going to have a final look at the Endeavor at another shop.  Hopefully, I will have all the info I need to pull the trigger soon.  Thanks again.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> You get smoke coming into your house if you try burning when it is over 50F outside?


 

It is harder to get a draft established when it is warm outside.


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## begreen (Jul 18, 2013)

isipwater said:


> You get smoke coming into your house if you try burning when it is over 50F outside?


 
No, a little will spill out of the door on startup if I open the door too quickly. Once it's going it's not an issue. No issue with the door closed. When the temps are milder we just use the heatpump.


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## Sprinter (Jul 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> No, a little will spill out of the door on startup if I open the door too quickly. Once it's going it's not an issue. No issue with the door closed. When the temps are milder we just use the heatpump.


Yeah, I get a little bit of that too sometimes.  We will burn quite successfully with temps well into the 50's.  Just have to be a little careful, but it's not really an issue.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2013)

Look at it like we looked at the whiff of cow manure or oil in Texas. "Smells like money."


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## Seanm (Jul 18, 2013)

Fall and spring I would get some back puffing into the house during start up but not during the winter. This was minimised by building top down fires on cold starts. Different pressure outside to inside during the fall and spring especially with a stove in the basement like mine. Opening up a window or a door helps. Others can correct me if i'm wrong but this isn't a stove specific issue. I've been told by my installer that this is also more prevalent in mountain valleys like where I live.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2013)

Seanm said:


> Others can correct me if im wrong but this isn't a stove specific issue.


 
You are correct. I was doing a little joking. It is all about air density and pressure differentials. That and my habit of just grabbing the handle and opening the door too fast.


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## Sprinter (Jul 19, 2013)

Seanm said:


> This was minimised by building top down fires on cold starts


I'm convinced that top-down is the way to go for cold starts, especially in marginal conditions.

One other thing that can help the puff problem is opening up the air all the way before opening the door.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 19, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I'm convinced that top-down is the way to go for cold starts, especially in marginal conditions.


 
You got it. Works like a champ. Heats the flue fast before the wood starts giving off gases and then when it does the gases have to pass through fire on the way up.

The last couple of seasons I have gotten lazy though. The Super Cedars make it get hot fast enough to pretty much do the same thing.


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## Sprinter (Jul 19, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Look at it like we looked at the whiff of cow manure or oil in Texas. "Smells like money."


Pulp mills are the smell of money in one of the communities around here (you know who you are...)  I'd rather be poor.


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## webby3650 (Jul 19, 2013)

isipwater said:


> I am not sure of the exact height but click on this link to see the estimate I got:
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BypDkSrAqt-AVnFoRl9mSmRhZjA/edit?usp=sharing


 
I can't tell from the quote how tall it is. It calls for 9' of chimney, but doesn't say how much double wall connector pipe. It sounds like you will have good height though. 
It doesn't say what brand of chimney though, most Pro's use 4' sections. Your quote says 36" pieces. Big Box stores carry 36" pieces, I hope he isn't using Super-Vent from Lowes or something!


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## isipwater (Jul 19, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> I can't tell from the quote how tall it is. It calls for 9' of chimney, but doesn't say how much double wall connector pipe. It sounds like you will have good height though.
> It doesn't say what brand of chimney though, most Pro's use 4' sections. Your quote says 36" pieces. Big Box stores carry 36" pieces, I hope he isn't using Super-Vent from Lowes or something!


 
I have now gotten three bids but did not verify the brand of pipe they want to use. I will get that next.


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## isipwater (Jul 19, 2013)

I went to two different shops today to see both the PE Fusion and the Endeavor. 

Of course I was very impressed by the PE's floating heavy gauge stainless steel baffle:






But I was also impressed by the Endeavor's simple and handy bypass damper:





This is a close call.  Two excellent stoves from two well respected stove shops.  

I think I will go with the Endeavor though because the Lopi stove shop is only 20 miles away while the PE stove shop is 70 miles away.  Even though I don't anticipate any problems with either stoves, I will have more peace of mind knowing that I will have assistance available that is more local.


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## Grisu (Jul 19, 2013)

isipwater said:


> I think I will go with the Endeavor though because the Lopi stove shop is only 20 miles away while the PE stove shop is 70 miles away. Even though I don't anticipate any problems with either stoves, I will have more peace of mind knowing that I will have assistance available that is more local.


 
Not a bad point even when it means you will not get the Super. (sniff) Anyway, enjoy your new "baby".


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## begreen (Jul 19, 2013)

My stove shop is 90 miles away, but I'm glad I went with them.


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## Sprinter (Jul 19, 2013)

Boy, those stoves look clean!


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## Grisu (Jul 19, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Boy, those stoves look clean!


 
Funny, I thought exactly the same.  I am pretty sure I cannot see myself in the baffle anymore.


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## NortheastAl (Jul 20, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Yep, we PE owners just keep pounding Isipwater into submission. Where are the Lopi owners? They must be out there somewhere, don't they?


We're here!

The Endeavor is a solid stove that had all the features I needed and wanted. Close clearances, bypass damper and a brick baffle. The bypass is great on reloads, and the extra mass from all the firebrick makes for a nice even and long lasting heat. 

Of course, I'm biased, but I am very happy with the stove.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 20, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Maybe even someday just get a "cup" of stuff out of the pipe after a whole season.


I only got one cup last year. Unfortunately it was a "D" cup. 


isipwater said:


> This is a close call. Two excellent stoves from two well respected stove shops.


Both of those stoves have lots of satisfied owners so I think you'll be a happy camper either way.


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## Treacherous (Jul 20, 2013)

I think you will be happy with the Endeavor. The bypass makes for easy cleaning and with energy logs you can often push a burn out to 13 or 14 hours. I've never burned oak but curious what cherry and apple will do for me this winter. In addition, I have never experienced any smoke spillage in 50+ weather.

EDIT: I don't burn straight energy logs. I usually mix in one or two for long overnight burns.


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## begreen (Jul 20, 2013)

You're going to love burning fruit wood for its longer, hotter burn times and sweet smelling smoke. Save it for the dead of winter.


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## Treacherous (Jul 20, 2013)

begreen said:


> You're going to love burning fruit wood for its longer, hotter burn times and sweet smelling smoke. Save it for the dead of winter.


 

Yeah I was thinking I will be using it for my January fires.


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## webby3650 (Jul 20, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Boy, those stoves look clean!


 
Maybe it's the clean stove I'm addicted to, I thought it was the smell of curing Stove Bright.


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## Sprinter (Jul 20, 2013)

isipwater said:


> I think I will go with the Endeavor though because the Lopi stove shop is only 20 miles away while the PE stove shop is 70 miles away.


I personally wouldn't make the decision based on that, but it shows how close the decision was.  You did your homework well and made a good choice.


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## isipwater (Jul 20, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> I personally wouldn't make the decision based on that, but it shows how close the decision was. You did your homework well and made a good choice.


 
I have not quite made the final choice and pulled the trigger.  I am just wondering how much someone 70 miles away is going to want to come assist me if needed.

I originally got 3 estimates but here are the final two estimates that I am trying to decide between:


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## webby3650 (Jul 20, 2013)

isipwater said:


> I have not quite made the final choice and pulled the trigger. I am just wondering how much someone 70 miles away is going to want to come assist me if needed.
> 
> I originally got 3 estimates but here are the final two estimates that I am trying to decide between:


 
Are both of these firm bids or "Estimates"?


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## isipwater (Jul 20, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> Are both of these firm bids or "Estimates"?


 
These are estimates. Neither shop has come out to my house yet.  The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate. If I go ahead, they will credit the $100 to my bill.  The PE dealer is 70 miles away so, he would not come to the house unless it was to come and do the install.  With both dealers, I gave detailed info on house dimensions and provided photos.


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## webby3650 (Jul 20, 2013)

isipwater said:


> These are estimates. Neither shop has come out to my house yet. The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate. If I go ahead, they will credit the $100 to my bill. The PE dealer is 70 miles away so, he would not come to the house unless it was to come and do the install. With both dealers, I gave detailed info on house dimensions and provided photos.


Wow, that's odd. Typically, at least I thought, they would want to come out to see the job. Estimates don't usually require you to spend money. See if the Lopi Dealer will come out for free, let him know how serious you are. I'd say this policy is costing them more than he is possibly saving.


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## isipwater (Jul 20, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> Wow, that's odd. Typically, at least I thought, they would want to come out to see the job. Estimates don't usually require you to spend money. See if the Lopi Dealer will come out for free, let him know how serious you are. I'd say this policy is costing them more than he is possibly saving.


 
I have never had a stove before, so this is new to me. I do find it confusing that I am going to spend around $4000 dollars but I can't get the dealer to come to my house without charging me. I guess they must be doing really good business...?


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## webby3650 (Jul 20, 2013)

isipwater said:


> I guess they must be doing really good business...?


This time of year?


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## Sprinter (Jul 20, 2013)

isipwater said:


> The Lopi dealer wants a non refundable $100 deposit to come to the house to give the firm estimate


Oh, that would be a red flag to me. None of the dealers I talked to did that and I was about 50 miles from the one who I bought from.  I would think site inspections would be normal business.

Another option may be to find a certified sweep who could do the install including supplying the parts. He may come out and give you a firm estimate because he won't care who you buy the stove from.

Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find.


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## isipwater (Jul 20, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> Oh, that would be a red flag to me. None of the dealers I talked to did that and I was about 50 miles from the one who I bought from. I would think site inspections would be normal business.
> 
> Another option may be to find a certified sweep who could do the install including supplying the parts. He may come out and give you a firm estimate because he won't care who you buy the stove from.
> 
> Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find.


 
Thanks for the feedback.  I did have two other places who came to the house but I was not impressed with them.  Neither wanted to go up in the attic and inspect where piping would go.  Plus their prices were much higher.


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## Sprinter (Jul 21, 2013)

isipwater said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I did have two other places who came to the house but I was not impressed with them. Neither wanted to go up in the attic and inspect where piping would go. Plus their prices were much higher.


This is just a single level ranch, right? No complications? They may not have to go into the attic, but they certainly would want to look at it from the access at least.

BTW, both of those installation labor estimates seem high to me, although maybe it's a regional thing. My installation cost not including the materials was about $400 for a similar situation. My Super 27 was less than $3100 total including tax. Although your material cost will probably be more since my total flue length is only 13' or so. The stove price seems about right for the PE. Not sure about the Lopi. Sounds like you may be in a tough area.

If you want to find a certified installer, take a look at these websites: They may help you find one in your area.
http://www.csia.org/
http://www.ncsg.org/


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## jensent (Jul 21, 2013)

Have used our  Lopi Endeavor for 9 seasons. Pipe from the stove to the chimney is double wall telescoping. We can clean the chimney without going out on the roof. Our wood is what the tree service drops in the side yard. Elm, Ash, Mulberry , Soft maple etc. Wood is c/s/s for 3 summers before it is burned. Cleaned the chimney after the first winter and got less than a cup of dry powder. We now clean every 2 or 3 years. Same results. We split by hand for the exercise. (I'm 68yo)  Try to keep all splits less than 3in thick. Noodle the ugly pieces so I don't have to get the splitter out of the garage. Our natural gas bill runs about $400 per year for dryer, water heater and furnace. The stove heats the house 24/7 without using the furnace as long as I do my job and the wind isn't bad and temp stay above 15F or so. House is about 2400 sq ft , built in 1940, and a constant remodeling project since we bought it in 1972. We are 90mi sw of Chicago. Would buy an Endeavor again in a heart beat.
Tom


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 21, 2013)

We've got the Republic 1750.  Don't really find we're lacking for not having the bypass, and we've got a single story so we don't have much of a chimney compared to some folks (15' maybe).  Nice stove, but if the Sirocco was available and I'd even heard of BK at the time, I'd likely have gone with that for the burn times (mostly the low and slow burns for shoulder season since we heat with wood).  We just finished up year two and expect as we get into the two year seasoned wood we'll be even happier with the stove-and since we put up about 70 face cords we shouldn't have to deal with subpar unseasoned stuff again! Now I'm afraid we'll heat ourselves out of the place, lol.

We originally had a contract for the Endeavor but changed it to the Republic to save some $$.  Thought about the Answer but it didn't have the burn time we needed, and then found the Republic (which the dealer somehow forgot to mention).  I prefer the looks over the steptop Endeavor now for our house (simple cottage) but it might be plain for some places.  Even the legs are pretty basic looking.

This is the Republic around Christmas time:


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## isipwater (Jul 21, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> This is just a single level ranch, right? No complications? They may not have to go into the attic, but they certainly would want to look at it from the access at least.
> 
> BTW, both of those installation labor estimates seem high to me, although maybe it's a regional thing. My installation cost not including the materials was about $400 for a similar situation. My Super 27 was less than $3100 total including tax. Although your material cost will probably be more since my total flue length is only 13' or so. The stove price seems about right for the PE. Not sure about the Lopi. Sounds like you may be in a tough area.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks. I do live in a part of the country where there is a high cost of living, so I am not surprised about the high labor costs.  Unfortunately, most things are more expensive here, south of Boston.

I live in a one level ranch with 8' ceilings. From Ceiling to roof it is another 4'.  Since I am having it installed in a central location, the chimney will go 2' higher than the peak.  All pipe will be double walled since I have small clearances.

I will check out the certified installer websites.


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## begreen (Jul 21, 2013)

Double wall is a good choice with a short chimney, regardless of clearances.


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## isipwater (Jul 21, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> We've got the Republic 1750. Don't really find we're lacking for not having the bypass, and we've got a single story so we don't have much of a chimney compared to some folks (15' maybe). Nice stove, but if the Sirocco was available and I'd even heard of BK at the time, I'd likely have gone with that for the burn times (mostly the low and slow burns for shoulder season since we heat with wood). We just finished up year two and expect as we get into the two year seasoned wood we'll be even happier with the stove-and since we put up about 70 face cords we shouldn't have to deal with subpar unseasoned stuff again! Now I'm afraid we'll heat ourselves out of the place, lol.
> 
> We originally had a contract for the Endeavor but changed it to the Republic to save some $$. Thought about the Answer but it didn't have the burn time we needed, and then found the Republic (which the dealer somehow forgot to mention). I prefer the looks over the steptop Endeavor now for our house (simple cottage) but it might be plain for some places. Even the legs are pretty basic looking.
> 
> This is the Republic around Christmas time:


 
What a beautiful photo!  I also like the looks of the 1750 b/c it is simple.  Do you regret not getting the Endeavor and not having the bypass damper?  How is it cleaning the 1750?


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## isipwater (Jul 21, 2013)

"Don't do a deal without a firm bid from somebody, though. There can be all kinds of gotcha's that require a site inspection to find."


Yes, this has been frustrating, not being able to get the stove shop installers to my house. On the positive side, both stove shops I am dealing with come well recommended both by people I know and with online reviews, including Angie's list. However, when I am about to spend $4000, I expect more attention.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 22, 2013)

isipwater said:


> when I am about to spend $4000, I expect more attention.


That's not the way they see it. You will easily save that much money, and more, with the stove so you are actually spending nothing. They are doing you a favor.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 22, 2013)

isipwater said:


> What a beautiful photo! I also like the looks of the 1750 b/c it is simple. Do you regret not getting the Endeavor and not having the bypass damper? How is it cleaning the 1750?


 

Thanks!

Not at all.  I don't really have a comparison having never had a stove before, much less one with a bypass damper.  If you open the door really quickly you can get a little smoke in the room, but most of the time I think it would have been a waste-and then there's the control for it sticking out of the side of the stove.  visually kind of ugly although I am sure you get used to it, to a point of not really noticing it.  My one complaint, and this goes for all Lopis stoves I think (since our gas stove was the same)-the blower is NOISY.  It is an absolute embarrasment that Lopi even allows them to be sold with how loud and rattley they are.  It makes an expensive stove seem like a cheap knock off when it's rattling away.  Considering our gas stove was 11-12 years old and had the same problem, I don't guess they are motivated to fix the problem either.  Other than that, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the stove at all.  We can load n/s or e/w (although 99% of the time we load n/s).


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## webby3650 (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm not sure why your blower is so noisy? It's not normal for lopi blowers to be louder than any other brand.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't know about that-the one on our Heritage Bay DV was noisy from day #1, and the replacment we put in a few years ago when the first one died wasn't any better.  This one has also been awful-I'm not sure what terms to use, but if you search this forum you'll see it's brought up by other Lopi owners as well.  It's not the air moving that's loud, it rattles like crazy, and the noise changes as it goes whether you change the speed or not.  I have a video somewhere I meant to upload to youtube, I'll have to see if I still have it and get it uploaded.  I never took one of the DV stove, but it was pretty much the same.


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## begreen (Jul 22, 2013)

Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.


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## webby3650 (Jul 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.


Lopi blowers are quiet on low and medium as well. I think some people think that the blower is loud because they don't have another blower really to compare it to. But they are comparable. If the blower speed variates, or rattles like crazy their dealer should replace it under warranty.


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## begreen (Jul 22, 2013)

Good to know, I was thinking something like a loose rear shield could be the source of the rattle.


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## Grisu (Jul 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> Do they use the same blower on wood burning Lopi stoves? FWIW, I can say that the PE blower is pretty quiet, especially on medium and lower speeds.


 
With my Super it is noticeable but does not bother us watching TV etc. I have it on low pretty much all the time; would actually be ok if I could reduce the speed even further. I always thought a blower was not really needed with a freestanding stove like the Lopi?


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## begreen (Jul 22, 2013)

Nor the freestanding PE. We only used the blower a few times last winter.


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## Sprinter (Jul 22, 2013)

Grisu said:


> With my Super it is noticeable but does not bother us watching TV etc. I have it on low pretty much all the time; would actually be ok if I could reduce the speed even further. I always thought a blower was not really needed with a freestanding stove like the Lopi?


I don't use or desire a blower (freestanding Super) but some people like to use them to get more air convection heat from it. It probably helps to get some heat into the room on a cold morning for example but at the expense of some radiant heat.


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## MarkinNC (Jul 22, 2013)

I looked at your stove placement in your original post.  We have a Lopi Endeavor and we have been very happy with it.  I would point out that I am not sure it will work well for you with the proposed installation location.  I did want to point out the Lopi is convective stove with most of the heat output coming out of the front of the stove.  The heat output off the back and sides of the stove is pretty minimal.  If you put the stove in one of the corners of the room (like the lower left corner of the diagram), it would push the heat from one end of the house to the other.  The convection really does work and I pointed our Endeavor towards our hallway leading to the far end of the house and it really works.

Now if the PE stove is more radiant, as opposed to convective and heat shielded like the Endeavor, I think that may heat your home better for you, at least in the current installation location.  Just a thought...

The other thing I have started to recommend is to make a cardboard cutout duplicating the dimensions of the stoves your looking at.  Then lay them out on the floor with the appropriate clearances.  We were able to tuck the Endeavor tightly into a corner owing to its close clearances and that worked good for us.


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## Grisu (Jul 22, 2013)

MarkinNC said:


> The other thing I have started to recommend is to make a cardboard cutout duplicating the dimensions of the stoves your looking at. Then lay them out on the floor with the appropriate clearances. We were able to tuck the Endeavor tightly into a corner owing to its close clearances and that worked good for us.


 
I like that idea. Maybe I would cut out the clearances that need to be observed and just paint an area inside that the stove will be. This way you can easily check how much room the stove will really need. (for better understanding: Stove 20 inches wide with 6 inch clearances either side => 32 inches total width; depth accordingly)


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## madison (Jul 22, 2013)

Grisu said:


> I like that idea. Maybe I would cut out the clearances that need to be observed and just paint an area inside that the stove will be. This way you can easily check how much room the stove will really need. (for better understanding: Stove 20 inches wide with 6 inch clearances either side => 32 inches total width; depth accordingly)


 
Example in thread in my signature


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## sticks (Jul 22, 2013)

MarkinNC said:


> I looked at your stove placement in your original post. We have a Lopi Endeavor and we have been very happy with it. I would point out that I am not sure it will work well for you with the proposed installation location. I did want to point out the Lopi is convective stove with most of the heat output coming out of the front of the stove. The heat output off the back and sides of the stove is pretty minimal. If you put the stove in one of the corners of the room (like the lower left corner of the diagram), it would push the heat from one end of the house to the other. The convection really does work and I pointed our Endeavor towards our hallway leading to the far end of the house and it really works.
> 
> Now if the PE stove is more radiant, as opposed to convective and heat shielded like the Endeavor, I think that may heat your home better for you, at least in the current installation location. Just a thought...
> 
> The other thing I have started to recommend is to make a cardboard cutout duplicating the dimensions of the stoves your looking at. Then lay them out on the floor with the appropriate clearances. We were able to tuck the Endeavor tightly into a corner owing to its close clearances and that worked good for us.


To me I see as much sheilding on the PE as the Lopi . Maybe part of  the top but that is about it. Very seldom have an issue with noise on Lopi woodstove. Biggest issue is making sure the thermodisc makes good contact for the blower to come on. My bias is showing I know. What can I say I am a Lopi guy through and through.


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## Woody Stover (Jul 22, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> My one complaint, and this goes for all Lopis stoves I think (since our gas stove was the same)-the blower is NOISY.


Huh. I've heard the blower on the Liberty at the stove shop, and it was really quiet.....


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## begreen (Jul 22, 2013)

That's what I would expect from a Lopi. Unfortunately the Lopis I have seen are blowerless.


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## MarkinNC (Jul 22, 2013)

FWIW we stopped using our blower on the Endeavor.  The convective feature works just fine and I like it more quiet.  Our blower is not loud and does not vibrate.  if one were to turn it all the way up to high, that would be loud.

I guess we do turn it on when our kiddos get out of the bath or shower.  They love to get dressed in front of the wood stove.


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## Treacherous (Jul 23, 2013)

isipwater said:


> How is it cleaning the 1750?


 
I can't speak for stove without bypass but I will say cleaning my Endeavor's pipe from the bottom with Sooteater is maybe a 20-30 minute task from start to finish.  It's very easy to go in through the stove.  I have 12:12 raised metal seam roof so no plans to go up on top for cleaning.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 23, 2013)

Cleaning the stove or the pipe? I can't find the original comment for context, just the reply above me. Anyway...the stove isn't that hard, no ash pan but I don't think thats much of a deal breaker. In use, push the good coals to the side and get the ashes on that side out, then move the coals to the cleaned out side and get those ashes. The once a year big clean up-scoop out as much ash as you can, then remove the bricks, bottom first, then sides then top. Wire brush everything you can reach (and get dirty), then put everything back, lol. Stack probably depends on setup-ours is a straight run, so easy enough from below or above. Biggest pita is getting the top bricks and the braces they sit on in and out around the tubes, but that's not really that difficult.

I can't find the video I took of the rattle.  I'll do it again come burn season I guess.  We are no where near a stove shop, so it's like pulling chicken teeth to get someone out to listen to it when it's running, since obviously they aren't going to make any $$ on the deal (or maybe it's because the two "local" shops are owned by the same person and are words I can't post on a family friendly forum-which is another good possibility).  Can't just bring it in, and it's usually not too bad when it first gets going so it's not as easy as holding a lighter to the snap disc to test it.  We use the blower to help move the heat down a narrow hallway to the other half of the house.  Personally I'd rather shut the dang thing off than listen to it...even typing this I can hear it in my head...that droning rattle...ugh.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 23, 2013)

Edit post isn't working for some weird reason...it pops up but I can't click on the text...

Anyway, about the cleaning-there's a breakdown of how the bricks, etc all go together in the owners manual which you can get off of the Lopi site.  Should show how relatively easy it is to take apart to clean/access the stack.


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## WoodMan33 (Jul 23, 2013)

Can you actually loose heat by using the blower with the wood stove? Would a house fan make more sense?


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## webby3650 (Jul 23, 2013)

WoodMan33 said:


> Can you actually loose heat by using the blower with the wood stove? Would a house fan make more sense?


You won't loose any heat. It kinda depends on the stove to me, my blaze king did great with the blower. It made the stove in my opinion. 
But, moving air around with a fan is still a must if you are trying to heat the whole house.


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## Sprinter (Jul 23, 2013)

WoodMan33 said:


> Can you actually loose heat by using the blower with the wood stove? Would a house fan make more sense?


No, the same amount of heat gets transferred,  it's just the difference between convection (heating the air directly) and radiant heat. Mostly a matter of personal preference.  I like the radiant feel, so I don't want a blower, but many like them. Inserts tend to need them more, especially if they are on an outside wall.


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## Treacherous (Jul 23, 2013)

I was referring to cleaning the pipe. Nothing to remove just pull the handle and let the Sooteater crawl its way up.

EDIT:  I do remove the door 



eclecticcottage said:


> Cleaning the stove or the pipe? I can't find the original comment for context, just the reply above me. Anyway...the stove isn't that hard, no ash pan but I don't think thats much of a deal breaker. In use, push the good coals to the side and get the ashes on that side out, then move the coals to the cleaned out side and get those ashes. The once a year big clean up-scoop out as much ash as you can, then remove the bricks, bottom first, then sides then top. Wire brush everything you can reach (and get dirty), then put everything back, lol. Stack probably depends on setup-ours is a straight run, so easy enough from below or above. Biggest pita is getting the top bricks and the braces they sit on in and out around the tubes, but that's not really that difficult.
> 
> I can't find the video I took of the rattle. I'll do it again come burn season I guess. We are no where near a stove shop, so it's like pulling chicken teeth to get someone out to listen to it when it's running, since obviously they aren't going to make any $$ on the deal (or maybe it's because the two "local" shops are owned by the same person and are words I can't post on a family friendly forum-which is another good possibility). Can't just bring it in, and it's usually not too bad when it first gets going so it's not as easy as holding a lighter to the snap disc to test it. We use the blower to help move the heat down a narrow hallway to the other half of the house. Personally I'd rather shut the dang thing off than listen to it...even typing this I can hear it in my head...that droning rattle...ugh.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 23, 2013)

Treacherous said:


> I was referring to cleaning the pipe. Nothing to remove just pull the handle and let the Sooteater crawl its way up.
> 
> EDIT: I do remove the door


 

We remove all of it to get to the buildup behind/under the bricks, etc. I covered the bottom (floor?) of the stove with ash and junk from all the nooks and crannies yesterday.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 23, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> But, moving air around with a fan is still a must if you are trying to heat the whole house.


 
Depends on the size of the house, lol.


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## Treacherous (Jul 23, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> We remove all of it to get to the buildup behind/under the bricks, etc. I covered the bottom (floor?) of the stove with ash and junk from all the nooks and crannies yesterday.


 

I haven't noticed much buildup on top of baffle so haven't bothered to clean up there yet.  I may check next year though.  I just scoop out as much ash as I can from firebox and call it a day for the annual cleaning.


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## webby3650 (Jul 23, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> Depends on the size of the house, lol.


Coming from a one no furnace guy to another, I can agree with that! But I prefer to move cold air into the stove room, it's a more even temperature throughout the house.


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## Sprinter (Jul 23, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> Coming from a one no furnace guy to another, I can agree with that! *But I prefer to move cold air into the stove room, it's a more even temperature throughout the house.*


It's easier to move cold air than warm air. The best success seems to be from putting a small fan on the floor at the peripheral rooms and blow the cold air out. Warm air will flow in above it.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 24, 2013)

webby3650 said:


> Coming from a one no furnace guy to another, I can agree with that! But I prefer to move cold air into the stove room, it's a more even temperature throughout the house.


 
We don't really have room for a fan on the floor...Our house is a rectangle, but the inside is set up like an H.  One "leg" of the H is the living room, the other leg is the dining room and kitchen which are open to each other and the - is the hallway between (on either side of the - are the bedroom and bathroom).  The hallway is rather narrow-you can't fit a fridge down it (long story...but we tried to move our VERY heavy vintage fridge from the livingroom where it was easier to unload it into the kitchen that way...and it never even could have dreamed of fitting down there) so there's no floor space for a fan that wouldn't be immediately knocked over when our dog throws a parade (she's excitable...about EVERYTHING...so we joke that she's throwing a "parade" when she jumps all over the place over something).


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## begreen (Jul 24, 2013)

There are some fairly untippable fans on the market. Put the fan on the floor at the very end of the hallway pointed toward the stove room. It will do the best job in this layout.

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-655704-Purpose-Pivoting-Utility/dp/B006O6FA22/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374683753&sr=8-1&keywords=stanley fan

In lieu of this the best bet is probably going to be a ceiling fan.


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## isipwater (Sep 17, 2013)

The local stove shop is coming to do the installation for our new Lopi Endeavor this Thursday, 9/19

I am wondering if anyone has any general tips, feedback, comments about the installation process. 

Is there any situations or things I should watch for or be asking the installer to make sure the installation is done well?

This will be my very first wood stove! Thanks for your assistance.


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## Grisu (Sep 17, 2013)

As I have an insert and not a stove I cannot tell you much about what to check when they do the install. Nevertheless, my golden rule for contractors/installers is:
Treat them well and most likely they will treat you well. 

I would put all furniture and other stuff as far away from the installation side as possible. There will be a stove plus two to three people with tools around it; they will need room to work. I would clear the entire path they need to use to get a 600 lb stove into the house. I would make sure the attic is accessible and they can get to where the chimney will need to go through the ceiling and the roof. If you have a ladder that reaches to the roof maybe have it already out; saves them the hassle to get theirs out of the truck if they are ok with using yours. And a hot cup of coffee in the morning while discussing the details will surely not hurt either.


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## NortheastAl (Sep 17, 2013)

The installation of your Lopi Endeavor should go smoothly. I'm sure your local shop has competent installers. I don't know if you have done this or not, but it is always good to have a copy of their insurance and workers comp. this indemnities you in case someone gets hurt at your home. If they are not insured, any injuries will be put against your homeowners insurance. At least that is the way it works in NY. In addition, our town required a building permit, and the contractor had to be licensed by our town. It is always good to have a few layers of protection, legally, being you are the homeowner. This is a tricky one, but insurance companies like to be notified upon installation and inspection by the town's fire marshal or other official that performs the inspection to issue a certificate of compliance. Then there are no questions that you are covered in the event of a related incident. 

The installers should be neat, work efficiently, and most of all answer any questions you have. Look in the flue opening in the top of the Endeavor before it is installed to see and be shown how the bypass damper works. It gives you a better understanding of that working component. When done, the installers should leave the area as clean as when they arrived. 

This is just a guideline for what to look for. It is important to use common sense to protect yourself and home. Learn all you can about maintaining the stove and flue, and use properly seasoned wood. Your stove should come with a moisture meter. Use it. It is an important piece of equipment to determine if the wood you are burning is below 20% moisture. A necessity for today's EPA stoves. 

Good luck. I hope you enjoy your new Endeavor, as I have been very happy with mine.


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## MarkinNC (Sep 17, 2013)

isipwater said:


> The local stove shop is coming to do the installation for our new Lopi Endeavor this Thursday, 9/19
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has any general tips, feedback, comments about the installation process.
> 
> ...



I was very happy with my installation crew.  Not sure if you got the blower and I don't want to reread the thread.  My crew did install the temp sensor for the blower in the wrong place (it still worked).  I did not notice it immediately but the Endeavor sensor goes in between the heat shield and the back of the stove.


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## NortheastAl (Sep 18, 2013)

MarkinNC said:


> I was very happy with my installation crew.  Not sure if you got the blower and I don't want to reread the thread.  My crew did install the temp sensor for the blower in the wrong place (it still worked).  I did not notice it immediately but the Endeavor sensor goes in between the heat shield and the back of the stove.



We just installed our blower two days ago. Went last winter without it. My son had gotten it for his Republic 1250 last year and I just needed to have one. At $250 it is too expensive, though. We read the instructions and up the sensor in the right place. Tested it out by heating it with a hair dryer. It is loud, but blows a heck of a lot of air.


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## isipwater (Sep 18, 2013)

MarkinNC said:


> I was very happy with my installation crew.  Not sure if you got the blower and I don't want to reread the thread.  My crew did install the temp sensor for the blower in the wrong place (it still worked).  I did not notice it immediately but the Endeavor sensor goes in between the heat shield and the back of the stove.


I did not get the blower. I thought I would try it out first and see if I want to get the blower later.

This thread continues at a new thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ndeavor-install-tomorrow.113967/#post-1527573


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## begreen (Sep 18, 2013)

That sounds reasonable. It's easy to retrofit.


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