# 2017/2018 VC owners thread



## webfish (Aug 22, 2017)

New thread.  Here is old one. . https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2016-2017-vc-owners-thread.156768/


Please continue here.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 22, 2017)

Hello to all my VC brothers.. looking forward to another year of heating. 40 days untill we start to burn..


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## Excavator (Aug 24, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hello to all my VC brothers.. looking forward to another year of heating. 40 days untill we start to burn..


40 days?  Wow  Seems like I just burnt my last fire a month ago


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## jharkin (Sep 16, 2017)

Thanks webfish for kicking us off... I keep forgetting to.

Hey all.  Its 80 degrees here today so no thought of a fire for a while yet.  Carry on.


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## Mr.K (Sep 16, 2017)

77 degrees and humid here on Long Island!  Just taking a break for lunch before heading back out to fire up the log splitter again.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 16, 2017)

85 here today... we had a cool down the other week, but the temps are back up now for the nesx 4 days then back to the mid 70s...


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## defiant3 (Sep 16, 2017)

Don't ask, "Why have a fire?" but "Why NOT have a fire?"


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## Dobish (Sep 19, 2017)

Just got up on the roof and cleaned out the chimney last night. It was a good use of 10 minutes!  Chimney is just over 15', with a little over 8' being outside. 
I was a little disappointed with how much buildup was in there, given the wood I was burning was roughly 20% or better, and I had cleaned it in january/February.  We burned until May. 

I didn't come across anything that didn't come off easily, but I ended up with about 2/3 of an ash pan full of black crusties and fine powder. It was all black, came off pretty easily. The Cap was pretty full of some big crusties as well, looked like some big chunks (what appeared to be cardboard).  I am hoping that with 2 year seasoned wood this winter, it is even less. I also think that our former nanny was not really controlling the fire very well and was cutting the air too soon.  

I will try and snap a picture of it today (since I haven't cleaned it out of the stove yet), as well as down the chimney.


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## Excavator (Sep 19, 2017)

Dobish said:


> Just got up on the roof and cleaned out the chimney last night. It was a good use of 10 minutes!  Chimney is just over 15', with a little over 8' being outside.
> I was a little disappointed with how much buildup was in there, given the wood I was burning was roughly 20% or better, and I had cleaned it in january/February.  We burned until May.
> 
> I didn't come across anything that didn't come off easily, but I ended up with about 2/3 of an ash pan full of black crusties and fine powder. It was all black, came off pretty easily. The Cap was pretty full of some big crusties as well, looked like some big chunks (what appeared to be cardboard).  I am hoping that with 2 year seasoned wood this winter, it is even less. I also think that our former nanny was not really controlling the fire very well and was cutting the air too soon.
> ...




I just cleaned mine last week and had some crusties on the cap and down the liner about a foot or two. It came right off the liner. The cap was removed so I could clean it over a bucket. I blame this on the last month of small burns at end of last burn season that were run not hot enough


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## Dobish (Sep 20, 2017)

Excavator said:


> I just cleaned mine last week and had some crusties on the cap and down the liner about a foot or two. It came right off the liner. The cap was removed so I could clean it over a bucket. I blame this on the last month of small burns at end of last burn season that were run not hot enough



i thought about putting down a piece of plastic or a tarp as I was dumping crusties all over my roof


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## Dobish (Oct 2, 2017)

It's October and we had snow while i was driving home from work.  It was raining all yesterday and today, but i grabbed some wood and brought it inside. It was a mix of pine and maple from the uglies pile. Even wet, it was cranking pretty quick.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 4, 2017)

70* at 8am this morning in south east Michigan so no fires for a couple weeks.


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## Ladd (Oct 19, 2017)

Hello fellow VC owners!

With help from this forum, I purchased a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore Fireback Kit #5925 for Models 0028 and 2140; I have a 2140. Now that wood stove use in in the near future, I have begun to rebuild Defiant Encore. 

However, after removing all the parts that needed to come out, upon starting the rebuild I don’t see how the replacement refractory chamber can be the correct part (see photos below). My old refractory chamber had a  wide hole on the front and back. The rebuild kit’s instructions say there should be a wide hole on the front *and* back and the line drawings show a hole on the front of the chamber (you can’t see the back). Yet the replacement refractory chamber included in the kit has only one long wide hole, on what I believe is the backside of the chamber where the catalytic converter would go when it is inserted from the back of the stove.

I suppose it is possible that the replacement refractory chamber is a new design and the instructions and diagrams haven’t been updated. Or perhaps I am just misinterpreting something.

In any case, if anyone would pass on their knowledge on this matter so I can move forward with the rebuild, I would be most appreciative.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 19, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Hello fellow VC owners!
> 
> With help from this forum, I purchased a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore Fireback Kit #5925 for Models 0028 and 2140; I have a 2140. Now that wood stove use in in the near future, I have begun to rebuild Defiant Encore.
> 
> ...


That looks like the refractory box for my 2250 encore. That would be the front of the box. The cat sits in the opening there and a cover slides in to hold the cat nice and tight in the refractory box. So basically when you remove your lower fire back you will be staring at that opening you see in pic 3. With the cat cover installed you should only be able to see the top of the cat.


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## Ladd (Oct 19, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> That looks like the refractory box for my 2250 encore. That would be the front of the box. The cat sits in the opening there and a cover slides in to hold the cat nice and tight in the refractory box. So basically when you remove your lower fire back you will be staring at that opening you see in pic 3. With the cat cover installed you should only be able to see the top of the cat.


That would make sense if your 2250 loads the cat from *inside* the stove. My 2140 loads the cat from the rear, so I don't see how this refractory box will work in my stove. AND it's from the kit that supposedly FOR my stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 19, 2017)

Ladd said:


> That would make sense if your 2250 loads the cat from *inside* the stove. My 2140 loads the cat from the rear, so I don't see how this refractory box will work in my stove. AND it's from the kit that supposedly FOR my stove.


I'm sure someone with more knowledge than myself will be by soon. Is it possible they sent the wrong one?


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## Ladd (Oct 19, 2017)

Update to my original question and a second question: I *think*, but am not even close to being sure, that the rectangle seen on the inside of the refractory box is supposed to be cut out (see photo below). The instructions say that it is "friction fit" and a sharp knife may be needed to remove the rectangle. There is nothing friction fit about the rectangle; the back is one solid piece. Still, cutting out the rectangle shouldn't be much of a problem, if that's what I need to do. Adding to the confusion, the instructions say this cut out piece is supposed to be the insulation piece immediately inside the catalytic converter cover on the back. Of course, the cut out piece will look nothing like the old insulation piece just inside the cat cover.

Second question (photos below): There is a separate piece of refractory material that appears to fit into the large hole on one side; perhaps it forms the base for the catalytic converter to sit on. It has two wings that fit into the side grooves on the refractory chamber. This piece is flat on one of the long, narrow sides and slightly rounded on the other narrow long side. On one of the wider long sides, there is a large lip. On the other  wider long side there is a narrow lip. So, how does this piece fit into the refractory chamber? It can go in four ways; large lip in and on top or on the bottom, or large lip out, on the top or bottom.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm still thinking you have the wrong refractory box. I just looked on a couple different sites and the box you need does not look like the box you have.


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## defiant3 (Oct 20, 2017)

So the refractory assembly pictured would be correct for models 2190, and 2550.  Will NOT fit 0028 or 2140.  Hearth and Home Tech., the most recent owners of V.C. seem to have endless difficulty with parts identification.  Many of the fireback kits I've gotten have the wrong stuff in them.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 20, 2017)

defiant3 said:


> So the refractory assembly pictured would be correct for models 2190, and 2550.  Will NOT fit 0028 or 2140.  Hearth and Home Tech., the most recent owners of V.C. seem to have endless difficulty with parts identification.  Many of the fireback kits I've gotten have the wrong stuff in them.


Sorry to hear about your troubles. When you finally get the right stuff you should have a good little heater.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubles. When you finally get the right stuff you should have a good little heater.


Last reply was meant for OP


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## Ladd (Oct 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I'm still thinking you have the wrong refractory box. I just looked on a couple different sites and the box you need does not look like the box you have.


I agree with your conclusion, but if on those same sites, you search for the *Fireback kit* for the 2140, not just the refractory box for the 2140, you will see that I received the refractory box that comes in the kit. They're definitely different.


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## Ladd (Oct 20, 2017)

I just returned from my local Vermont Castings dealer and he has confirmed that the refractory assembly in my Defiant Encore Fireback Kit #5925 is the *wrong* refractory for that kit. The refractory is for the Model 2250 model of stove, not the 2140 model which is what the 5925 kit is for. Therefore, the kit itself had to be packed wrong, either by the VC distributor or most likely by Vermont Casting themselves. 

So, you guys were right!

In any case, as Vermont Castings never talks to the end users (and from what I understand, rarely talks to the retailers and usually only to the distributors), I have to go through the retail business in Connecticut from which I purchased the kit over the Internet to get them to convince VC to send me the correct refractory. I am not anticipating this to go smoothly ...


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## Sailrmike (Oct 20, 2017)

Ladd said:


> I just returned from my local Vermont Castings dealer and he has confirmed that the refractory assembly in my Defiant Encore Fireback Kit #5925 is the *wrong* refractory for that kit. The refractory is for the Model 2250 model of stove, not the 2140 model which is what the 5925 kit is for. Therefore, the kit itself had to be packed wrong, either by the VC distributor or most likely by Vermont Casting themselves.
> 
> So, you guys were right!
> 
> In any case, as Vermont Castings never talks to the end users (and from what I understand, rarely talks to the retailers and usually only to the distributors), I have to go through the retail business in Connecticut from which I purchased the kit over the Internet to get them to convince VC to send me the correct refractory. I am not anticipating this to go smoothly ...



Was it Preston Trading Post's Stove World?  They are a top notch shop, I'm a customer for life.


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## Ladd (Oct 20, 2017)

Sailrmike said:


> Was it Preston Trading Post's Stove World?  They are a top notch shop, I'm a customer for life.


Can't say that it was; too bad, you gave them a good review. FWIW, the company I'm dealing with sent me an email within five minutes, saying they were forwarding my emails upstream, so we're off to a good start. Hopefully the VC distributor will be convinced.


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## Ladd (Oct 27, 2017)

Update re: attempt to get incorrect refractory assembly replaced with correct model

The business I purchased the rebuild kit from has (according to them) sent two emails and called twice, with their calls going to voice mail and no response from their distributor each time.

Can anyone offer a contact name and phone number for the Vermont Castings distributor who handles Connecticut? Or, better yet, a name and contact number at Vermont Castings to whom I can call or send a certified letter?


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## Dobish (Oct 27, 2017)

try this number: 
P: 802.234.2360


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## Ladd (Oct 27, 2017)

Thanks for the number. Whose number is it?


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## Dobish (Oct 27, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Thanks for the number. Whose number is it?



A service tech from VC


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 28, 2017)

Good luck


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## azeeb (Oct 30, 2017)

Subscribing to this thread.  I bought a new house this summer that has a relatively new model VC Defiant 2n1 in the finished basement.  I've finally started using it the last 3-4 days here in Michigan.  Still trying to get the operation nailed down, but it seems to be working well.  I've been reading the owners threads from the past few years, trying to learn.  Looking forward to participating this year.


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## Dobish (Oct 30, 2017)

azeeb said:


> Subscribing to this thread.  I bought a new house this summer that has a relatively new model VC Defiant 2n1 in the finished basement.  I've finally started using it the last 3-4 days here in Michigan.  Still trying to get the operation nailed down, but it seems to be working well.  I've been reading the owners threads from the past few years, trying to learn.  Looking forward to participating this year.


Welcome.... It's a great stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 30, 2017)

azeeb said:


> Subscribing to this thread.  I bought a new house this summer that has a relatively new model VC Defiant 2n1 in the finished basement.  I've finally started using it the last 3-4 days here in Michigan.  Still trying to get the operation nailed down, but it seems to be working well.  I've been reading the owners threads from the past few years, trying to learn.  Looking forward to participating this year.


Welcome. There's lots of information in the last few years of this VC owners threads.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 30, 2017)

azeeb said:


> Subscribing to this thread.  I bought a new house this summer that has a relatively new model VC Defiant 2n1 in the finished basement.  I've finally started using it the last 3-4 days here in Michigan.  Still trying to get the operation nailed down, but it seems to be working well.  I've been reading the owners threads from the past few years, trying to learn.  Looking forward to participating this year.



Welcome. . Is yours the 2040


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## azeeb (Oct 30, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Welcome. There's lots of information in the last few years of this VC owners threads.


Thanks.  I rented a house on Hamburg lake for a year back in 2011.  I think that's in your neck of the woods.  It's a nice area.  I live in Midland now.


Woodsplitter67 said:


> Welcome. . Is yours the 2040


It says 1975 on the back heat shield.  Is the 2040 the Encore?  Mine is the larger Defiant, but pretty much the same design I think.  Mine has a 16NOV10 manufacturing date on it, I believe that was the first year of the newest design.


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## azeeb (Oct 30, 2017)

I would like to order a digital cat probe.  I see the condar and the auber mentioned.  Is one better than the other?  Any different options?


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## Dobish (Oct 30, 2017)

azeeb said:


> Thanks.  I rented a house on Hamburg lake for a year back in 2011.  I think that's in your neck of the woods.  It's a nice area.  I live in Midland now.
> 
> It says 1975 on the back heat shield.  Is the 2040 the Encore?  Mine is the larger Defiant, but pretty much the same design I think.  Mine has a 16NOV10 manufacturing date on it, I believe that was the first year of the newest design.



the 2040 is the encore.

A lot of of people go with teh Auber AT100 for their digital cat probe. 

i made a little flowchart http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...urning-wood-in-your-stove-a-flowchart.157888/  which some folks have found helpful. there is also a thread about the 2040 somewhere, which might have some good stuff in it.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

Hamburg is real close. It's not a bad area. I would prefer to live upnorth or even the U.P, however, the money I make working in Ann Arbor is hard to say no to. 

I would definitely go with the auber. I have had both and the condar is an over priced paper weight.


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## azeeb (Oct 31, 2017)

Dobish said:


> the 2040 is the encore.
> 
> A lot of of people go with teh Auber AT100 for their digital cat probe.
> 
> i made a little flowchart http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...urning-wood-in-your-stove-a-flowchart.157888/  which some folks have found helpful. there is also a thread about the 2040 somewhere, which might have some good stuff in it.



Thanks.  I bookmarked your flowchart.




RandyBoBandy said:


> Hamburg is real close. It's not a bad area. I would prefer to live upnorth or even the U.P, however, the money I make working in Ann Arbor is hard to say no to.
> 
> I would definitely go with the auber. I have had both and the condar is an over priced paper weight.



I know what you mean.  I grew up on a dairy farm north of Lansing.  I lived in downtown Ann Arbor when I was in college, and couldn't wait to get out.  Then I moved to Vermont for 8 years.  We moved back to Michigan, and my wife had to be back in the Ann Arbor area for a year.  I couldn't handle the idea of living in the city again.  That's when we lived in Hamburg.  The whole Whitmore Lake / Pinckney / Dexter area is about as close to an up north feel as you can get living near Ann Arbor.

What do you not like about the condar probe?  The only reason I haven't just bought the Auber is because I don't have an electrical outlet right next to the stove.  The closest is about 10 feet away, and there isn't a clean way to run a cord with the way my hearth is setup.  There is a built in brick wood box in the way.  A battery operated probe would be easier.


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## azeeb (Oct 31, 2017)

I haven't decided if I like this stove or not.  Right now I'm having issues getting the secondary to light.  It's pretty hit or miss.  It will light and run for a while, and then it seems to go out later and I have back puffing problems.  I've never used a stove with a cat before.  I'm wondering if the cat needs replacing.


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## Dobish (Oct 31, 2017)

azeeb said:


> I haven't decided if I like this stove or not.  Right now I'm having issues getting the secondary to light.  It's pretty hit or miss.  It will light and run for a while, and then it seems to go out later and I have back puffing problems.  I've never used a stove with a cat before.  I'm wondering if the cat needs replacing.


you should pull the cat and take a look at it. I have noticed that especially with poor draft (early season) i used to get a lot of back puffing. Also, I have noticed that this stove is really sensitive to moist wood. make sure your wood is very dry, or get it a little hotter than you would think before engaging the cat.  The first year, I had a lot of issues due to sub-optimal wood and trying to cut the air too fast.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

The condar thermo doesn't read until 300 degrees. Then it only moves in increments of 50 degrees. It eats batteries like crazy. The display will only stay lit for a short period of time. So you have to constantly get up and push the button if you want to know what's going on. Very expensive for what it is as well. 

The AT100 has realtime temp display. Increments of 1 degree. The display is always on. Has two alarms you can set. Keeps track of highest temp recorded. It's $40. The probe will be extra however but still totals to less than the condar. I did use the condar probe that I already had because it's only 4" long which works with my rear heat shield on the stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

How tall is your stack?  The shoulder seasons are tricky to run this stove in. Especially if this is your first year using a Vermont. Try smaller splits and run the griddle top up to 500 before engaging the cat. And shut your primary air down slower and in smaller increments. Once the temps dip into the 20's she will burn a lot better. I have a short stack but can still cruise the cat around 1400 without a problem.


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## azeeb (Oct 31, 2017)

The flue exits horizontally out the back of the stove, and then goes up into about 25 feet of 8" class A.  The last 3 feet are above the roof, the rest is interior to the house.  I think you might be right about the temperature, hopefully it will work better when it gets cold.  I'm burning ash that the previous owner left (about 6-7 cords).

I'm still suspicious of the cat, though.  It will be running fine for a couple hours, and then the cat will go out with plenty of wood still in the stove and the air setting about 1/2 open.  That's when it starts to back puff.  Maybe it will be easier to tell whats going on when I get a temp probe.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

azeeb said:


> The flue exits horizontally out the back of the stove, and then goes up into about 25 feet of 8" class A.  The last 3 feet are above the roof, the rest is interior to the house.  I think you might be right about the temperature, hopefully it will work better when it gets cold.  I'm burning ash that the previous owner left (about 6-7 cords).
> 
> I'm still suspicious of the cat, though.  It will be running fine for a couple hours, and then the cat will go out with plenty of wood still in the stove and the air setting about 1/2 open.  That's when it starts to back puff.  Maybe it will be easier to tell whats going on when I get a temp probe.


Go to Home Depot or lowes and get yourself a moisture meter. Split a piece of wood that is at room temp and check the moisture content of a freshly exposed side of the wood. Pull the cat out and clean it real good. I know some people have had issues with steal cats. I'm not sure what's in your stove. I have a ceramic one in my encore and it works real good. What makes you think your cat is stalling?


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## azeeb (Oct 31, 2017)

The cat looks like a ceramic one.  It's not clogged, and the element doesn't appear cracked or broken, but the housing is a little warped.  The paint on the flu coming out the back of the stove is discolored and looks like it got way too hot at some point.  This makes me suspicious that previous owners burned up the cat.  I don't know what a burned up cat looks like, though.  If it's not broken or crumbling is it still good?  Or can the coating on the ceramic get burned off with the honeycomb structure still intact?

I think the cat is stalling because I can no longer see any glow behind the access panel that sits in front of the cat, and the stove temp starts dropping.  I also see much more smoke coming out the chimney.  This is when smoke starts building up in the firebox and back puffing occurs.  I'm not sure if a poor draft is causing it to go out, or if the cat stalls and that causes the poor draft.  It seems to work fine when I can obviously see the cat glowing in the back of the stove.

I will get a moisture meter and check my wood.


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## Dobish (Oct 31, 2017)

azeeb said:


> The cat looks like a ceramic one.  It's not clogged, and the element doesn't appear cracked or broken, but the housing is a little warped.  The paint on the flu coming out the back of the stove is discolored and looks like it got way too hot at some point.  This makes me suspicious that previous owners burned up the cat.  I don't know what a burned up cat looks like, though.  If it's not broken or crumbling is it still good?  Or can the coating on the ceramic get burned off with the honeycomb structure still intact?
> 
> I think the cat is stalling because I can no longer see any glow behind the access panel that sits in front of the cat, and the stove temp starts dropping.  I also see much more smoke coming out the chimney.  This is when smoke starts building up in the firebox and back puffing occurs.  I'm not sure if a poor draft is causing it to go out, or if the cat stalls and that causes the poor draft.  It seems to work fine when I can obviously see the cat glowing in the back of the stove.
> 
> I will get a moisture meter and check my wood.



Cat should be fine if it isn't cracked. Even a cracked cat will light off. I am guessing it is just poor draft, and not getting enough air. You could try a few things: 
- remove the cat completely. You will still get secondary burns when you hit the correct temps.  That is one of the nice features of the 2n1. it is easy to remove the cat, especially if you are burning sub-optimal wood.
- give it more air.
- make it really cold outside to get better draft. i have noticed that when it is cold out, I can tell from the sound when the cat is roaring.  when it is more mild, i have to go look at the thermometer.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

How long is the horizontal section of stove pipe before it goes up the chimney? Have you cleaned and or inspected the chimney? Have you inspected all of your gaskets?


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 31, 2017)

Try and clean all the ash out of the firebox between loads. There are EPA holes in the stove that help feed air to the fire. In these mild temps this may help.


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## Diabel (Oct 31, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> The condar thermo doesn't read until 300 degrees. Then it only moves in increments of 50 degrees. It eats batteries like crazy. The display will only stay lit for a short period of time. So you have to constantly get up and push the button if you want to know what's going on. Very expensive for what it is as well.
> 
> The AT100 has realtime temp display. Increments of 1 degree. The display is always on. Has two alarms you can set. Keeps track of highest temp recorded. It's $40. The probe will be extra however but still totals to less than the condar. I did use the condar probe that I already had because it's only 4" long which works with my rear heat shield on the stove.



Exactly, what he said!!


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## Charles1981 (Nov 1, 2017)

azeeb said:


> I haven't decided if I like this stove or not.  Right now I'm having issues getting the secondary to light.  It's pretty hit or miss.  It will light and run for a while, and then it seems to go out later and I have back puffing problems.  I've never used a stove with a cat before.  I'm wondering if the cat needs replacing.


I highly suspect you may have moist wood. If the car isn't cracked or has holes in it it's still good imo. It is warmer right now and the stove with a short stack and moist wood is going to backpuff and stall the cat in not time...from 5 years experience.  I have a 25 foot internal stack and the stove runs well right now....but still I don't run the stove except at night when the temps dip below 35. Stove runs very poorly above 40 degrees even with my tall chimney.


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## azeeb (Nov 2, 2017)

The horizontal section of my stove pipe is about 3 feet, then it goes up 25.  The chimney is clean, and I thought the gaskets were in OK shape.  However, last night I had a bit of a run away fire.  The stove temp got up to 700, and the horizontal section of my stovepipe had a surface temp of 550-600.  The cat was blazing away.  The temps were still trying to climb, so I opened the bypass and managed to get it stabilized while I baby sat it for an hour or so.  Fortunately I only had 4 splits of ash loaded, and not a full load.  Afterwards, I saw one of the door glass gaskets was broke and hanging down inside.  I'm guessing that air leak is what caused it to get away from me.  No more fires until I get some new gasket material and get a temp probe for the cat.

What's the best way to slow down a runaway fire when you get an air leak?  The pucker factor started to kick in for me as the temps kept climbing.  I've never used a stove that didn't have a damper in the stove pipe that could help cut the draft.  With the bypass closed on this one the cat just kept getting hotter.  I left the bypass open and let it burn down.  I had a pail of ashes ready to dump on it.  I stuffed tin foil to cover the secondary air opening in the back of the stove, but that didn't seem to do much.  The only EPA hole I could find was in the bottom rear of the stove, just in front of the primary air vent.  No holes in the ash pan that I could find.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 2, 2017)

Your model may have the EPA holes in a different location. Look behind the front legs leading in to the ash pan area. My finger is pointing to one just behind the latch on the inside of the ash pan housing. I don't R.E.M. er if you said what size pipe you are running, 6" or 8"?  If 8" you could open the doors all the way in a runaway situation. It would be wise to use the screen insert if you happen to have one. I have read of others soaking a log in water and putting it in the stove to slow things down. If things get real scary you could throw some sand in through the griddle top. If you can get behind the stove and check to make sure the primary air control can shut all the way. The window gasket isn't to bad to do. Just don't use to much cement. You don't want it oozing out on the outside of the glass. A mirror on s telescoping handle is a very handy tool when working on the stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 2, 2017)

There are some of us who have done some tinkering with the secondary air shutter. I changed the timing and knocked out the little pin so the shutter will close all the way.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 2, 2017)

Where does everyone like to shop for their stove parts?  I don't trust my local vendor and I need to start planning for a rebuild.  I took advantage of a warm day and cleaned the stove today. My refractory box has seen better days. Hood and lower fire back are starting to show signs of warping as well.


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## azeeb (Nov 3, 2017)

I have a 8" pipe.  The only thing I can find that must be the EPA hole on my model is in the bottom rear center, right in front of the primary air intake.  It seems to let air into the primary even when the shutter is closed.  I can't find anything in the ash pan.  

There doesn't seem to be any secondary air shutter on mine, just an open rectangle above the primary air intake.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

azeeb said:


> I have a 8" pipe.  The only thing I can find that must be the EPA hole on my model is in the bottom rear center, right in front of the primary air intake.  It seems to let air into the primary even when the shutter is closed.  I can't find anything in the ash pan.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any secondary air shutter on mine, just an open rectangle above the primary air intake.


I've been looking online to see what is used for secondary air on your stove but not getting good diagrams. Can you take a picture of the back of your stove and post it?


----------



## azeeb (Nov 3, 2017)




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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

Hopefully someone with your style stove chimes in soon


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## Diabel (Nov 3, 2017)

Hi All
What Encore are we talking about here?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

He has the defiant 1975 flexburn.  I can't find anything on the secondary air control


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## azeeb (Nov 3, 2017)

From what I can tell, the 2n1 flexburn models don’t have any secondary air control.  Just a big hole in the back.  Most of it feeds the cat, but some of it is also routed to the firebox through a bunch of small holes.

Post #90 & #93 in this thread mention it
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2014-2015-vc-owners-thread.132919/page-4


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

azeeb said:


> From what I can tell, the 2n1 flexburn models don’t have any secondary air control.  Just a big hole in the back.  Most of it feeds the cat, but some of it is also routed to the firebox through a bunch of small holes.
> 
> Post #90 & #93 in this thread mention it
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2014-2015-vc-owners-thread.132919/page-4


I remember reading that thread now. Does your 1975 have these 8 holes in the fire back?


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## azeeb (Nov 3, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I remember reading that thread now. Does your 1975 have these 8 holes in the fire back?



Yes it does.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

I think you need to fix your door gasket and install your cat probe before you start plugging holes. It would be nice to see what temps your cat is hitting. Did you ever end up getting a moisture meter?


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## azeeb (Nov 3, 2017)

I agree, I don’t plan on modifying anything until I get a better feel for how it runs as intended.  I did not get a moisture meter yet.  I did get the gaskets and might work on those tomorrow.  If I have time I’ll look for a moisture meter at Home Depot too.  I need to make a trip there anyways.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 3, 2017)

Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## Ladd (Nov 4, 2017)

Hello!

Semi-recent poster here again. I'm the person who had his VC 2140 insides taken out and spread across my living room when I discovered that the refractory assembly in the rebuild kit was the wrong one. After numerous email exchanges with the retailer and finally contacting his Hearth & Home representative, the correct refractory assembly was delivered by FedEx a couple of hours ago. It is installed, as has the lower fireback.

I have a question about installing the upper fireback:

The instructions say "apply a bead of stove cement to the back left and right edges of the new upper fireback assembly". As shown in the upside down photo posted below, the back left and right of the upper fireback has rope gasket pre-installed, each gasket curving around to cover a few inches of the bottom.

Where am I supposed to put the bead of cement?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 4, 2017)

Interesting. I would assume any mating surface that does not have gasket I would think gets cement. Hopefully someone with experience with this model will chime in. If not try tagging @bholler


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## Ladd (Nov 4, 2017)

Thanks for the reply.

The only part of the back of the upper fireback that is a mating surface that *doesn't* have a gasket already installed is *maybe* the top long edge (the bottom edge in the upside down photo). One, I don't know if this part mates with anything and Two, it's clearly not the "back left and right edge", so unless the instructions are wrong, I don't see how this long edge should get a bead line of cement.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 5, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The only part of the back of the upper fireback that is a mating surface that *doesn't* have a gasket already installed is *maybe* the top long edge (the bottom edge in the upside down photo). One, I don't know if this part mates with anything and Two, it's clearly not the "back left and right edge", so unless the instructions are wrong, I don't see how this long edge should get a bead line of cement.


Any luck?  You could also try reaching out to @begreen or @defiant3  for advice.


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## Ladd (Nov 5, 2017)

I haven't sent a message to bholler yet, figuring that if they came to the board and got notified of a waiting message, they would probably come to this discussion thread anyway. Now, if contacting bholler or @begreen or @defiant3 sends an email to them, that would be different. In any case, it's the weekend and I'll give folks until this evening to see if anyone checks in here.


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## defiant3 (Nov 5, 2017)

Where the top edge of the upper fireback would meet the top of the stove should be cemented.  Be advised that the channel the UFB fits into in the top casting WAS cemented before, and so you must remove any old cement from this groove.  Working upside down.  Inside the stove.  With hammer and chisel.  Yeah.  You of course may apply the cement into that groove instead of on the upper fireback if that seems easier.  Again.  Upside down.. Inside the stove. Right. Best of luck.


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## Ladd (Nov 5, 2017)

Your advice makes perfect sense and I will do that. 

However, can you offer any explanation as to the directions saying "apply a bead to the left and right sides of the UFB"?


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## defiant3 (Nov 6, 2017)

Nope


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 6, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Your advice makes perfect sense and I will do that.
> 
> However, can you offer any explanation as to the directions saying "apply a bead to the left and right sides of the UFB"?


Have you removed the old one yet?


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## Ladd (Nov 6, 2017)

Yup, the old upper fireback was taken out two weeks ago and I just checked, it looks identical to the new fireback. It has rope gasket alone each side which continues for 3-4 inches along the bottom. I still don't see any place to put a bead of cement "along the left and right sides".

I have just finished removing the old cement along the groove on the underside of the top. This would have been a lot easier without the new refractory and fireback already installed, but I must admit that upon re-reading the instructions for the thirteenth time, they do say to do this before beginning to install the new parts.

Given that the installation instructions DO NOT say to put a bead of cement in the groove on the underside of the top of the stove, AND they do say to put a bead on the left and right sides of the upper fireback (where?), I can only assume that the instructions are literally incorrect. I find this very hard to believe, but can't come up with any other option.

Now to spend a few minutes pondering if trying to put a bead of cement on the top edge of the upper fireback (and having it stay there) is easier than trying to put a bead into the groove in the underside of the top. Perhaps a few practice placements will reveal if I have a chance of putting the upper fireback in (with the bead on top of the UFB) and not smearing the cement before it goes into place.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 6, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Yup, the old upper fireback was taken out two weeks ago and I just checked, it looks identical to the new fireback. It has rope gasket alone each side which continues for 3-4 inches along the bottom. I still don't see any place to put a bead of cement "along the left and right sides".
> 
> I have just finished removing the old cement along the groove on the underside of the top. This would have been a lot easier without the new refractory and fireback already installed, but I must admit that upon re-reading the instructions for the thirteenth time, they do say to do this before beginning to install the new parts.
> 
> ...


Good luck.


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## Reckless (Nov 11, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Where does everyone like to shop for their stove parts?  I don't trust my local vendor and I need to start planning for a rebuild.  I took advantage of a warm day and cleaned the stove today. My refractory box has seen better days. Hood and lower fire back are starting to show signs of warping as well.


I was very lucky finding this little gem
https://www.plumbersstock.com/vermont-castings.html
If you know exact part numbers it makes it even easier. When I did my complete rebuild their prices could not be beat. Enjoy.


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## Reckless (Nov 11, 2017)

Ladd said:


> Yup, the old upper fireback was taken out two weeks ago and I just checked, it looks identical to the new fireback. It has rope gasket alone each side which continues for 3-4 inches along the bottom. I still don't see any place to put a bead of cement "along the left and right sides".
> 
> I have just finished removing the old cement along the groove on the underside of the top. This would have been a lot easier without the new refractory and fireback already installed, but I must admit that upon re-reading the instructions for the thirteenth time, they do say to do this before beginning to install the new parts.
> 
> ...



Not sure if this is may find this useful but Jeremy had a great write up on a rebuild he did. You may be reading instructions for a different model it sounds like..... Ask questions as there are a few of us who have done complete tear downs at this point.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/encore-2550-rebuild-start-to-finish.112149/


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## Reckless (Nov 11, 2017)

First fire of the year last night! Got down to 10F here mid NY. Looks like it may be the last fire too for at least a week 40-50 all week here way to warm for my encore. Going to sweep the chimney and put in the 6" liner I bought just because this thing is way too easy to operate at this point and miss the challenge of trying to figure it out [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] stay warm brothers


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 11, 2017)

Reckless said:


> First fire of the year last night! Got down to 10F here mid NY. Looks like it may be the last fire too for at least a week 40-50 all week here way to warm for my encore. Going to sweep the chimney and put in the 6" liner I bought just because this thing is easy to easy to operate at this point and miss the challenge of trying to figure it out [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] stay warm brothers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
> I was starting to wonder if This was going to be a quiet thread this year. I've had 24/7 burning going on for a few days now. Enjoyed a full box of oak the other night when it got down to 16. Secondaries were mesmerizing.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 11, 2017)

They are way cheaper than anybody else. Thanks for the tip.


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## Reckless (Nov 12, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> They are way cheaper than anybody else. Thanks for the tip.



I got lower fireback , refractory ($40 at the time and was tempted to buy them out and flip them wish I would have), cat hood, the whole rear casting ( mine had a crack near the flue exit) and a 6" round flue collar instead of the stupid oval one. I still need a primary air handle but for the $30 may just make one myself. Good luck with your rebuild.


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## Northern NH Mike (Nov 12, 2017)

Greetings all from northern NH.  Haven't posted or read in quite a while as life as a ski racing dad has taken up most of my winters.  I enjoyed and benefited from the collective wisdom of these forums as a new burner and looking forward to rejoining.  

Winter arrived Thursday at 3:00 am with a thunder storm.  I spent the day Friday cleaning out my Encore non-cat and fired it up after changing out the gasket on the top load door.  Temps have been in the teens that past few days and the snow guns are running.  Got some nice maple and beech in the garage and ready for winter.  

Best to all.


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## defiant3 (Nov 12, 2017)

Mike, we missed the t storms way down in the  Mt. Washington Valley, but winter did seem to happen overnight!  Been running the old Defiant IIi  non stop since last week. Bear Notch road is now closed if you're wondering.  Everyone else is.


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## azeeb (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm slowly getting my issues sorted out one by one.

- My wood is showing 12-14% moisture.  Seems good.

- I replaced the leaking gasket on the door glass, and also the griddle, which was pretty used up.

- Chimney is cleaned.  It was pretty clean to begin with.

- Installed a cat probe.

The stove still doesn't seem like it's working that great.  Getting a good secondary burn going takes way more messing around then it should.  The cat temp rarely gets out of the 800-1000 range. I'm thinking replacing the bypass gasket is my next step to try.  When the bypass is closed it seems like I still get a fair amount of flame reaching up to the top of the stove.  If the bypass gasket is leaking could that be killing the draft through my secondary?  What's the best way to get at that bypass gasket to replace it?  Is there a way to do it through the front of the stove?  Or do I need to take the flue collar off and do it from the back?


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## Ladd (Nov 12, 2017)

Reckless said:


> You may be reading instructions for a different model it sounds like..... Ask questions as there are a few of us who have done complete tear downs at this point.
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/encore-2550-rebuild-start-to-finish.112149/


Thanks for the reply. The instructions I'm reading came in the rebuild kit for my stove and the diagrams inside match my stove exactly (including showing the correct refractory assembly), so I'm pretty sure they are the correct instructions. Ones with perhaps an incorrect step and missing a step that would seem to be necessary.

FWIW, the stove has been completely put back together, sat for 24 hours before I started a multi-day process of building small fires. Now, a week later, it is cruising along at 500° and heating my home again.


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## Reckless (Nov 12, 2017)

azeeb said:


> The cat temp rarely gets out of the 800-1000 range.



What's the pipe thermometer reading? My magnet therm with cat engaged cruising at 12-1400 reads around 3-400ish. If you don't have one, get one! In my opinion this stove needs two magnet therms (stove top and pipe) and a digital probe to operate correctly and even then it's a PIA [emoji23][emoji23]
Stove top inst as crutial, but it gives me an idea of the heat im putting into the room.



azeeb said:


> What's the best way to get at that bypass gasket to replace it?  Is there a way to do it through the front of the stove?
> Or do I need to take the flue collar off and do it from the back?



Take out the whole assembly is the easiest way to gasket it but not the easiest way to do it..... Pros and cons to both methods. Removing the flue collar is easy but can be tricky to get the old cement out and the new gasket cement in. You will also need to use some clamps as you work to hold it in place. Either way when finished I used paper inbetween and closed the bypass for it to cure. I say pull the full bypass and regasket everything (both walls and lower fireback for a 2500) good luck


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## Rahm (Nov 13, 2017)

Dobish said:


> the 2040 is the encore.
> 
> A lot of of people go with teh Auber AT100 for their digital cat probe.
> 
> i made a little flowchart http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...urning-wood-in-your-stove-a-flowchart.157888/  which some folks have found helpful. there is also a thread about the 2040 somewhere, which might have some good stuff in it.




Hi, I'm new to the forum.

I have a 2040 Flexburn. I'm planning to buy the Auber AT 100 to monitor my CAT temp but I don't know which thermocouple to buy with it. Can someone post a link to the appropriate one.

Thanks.


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2017)

azeeb said:


> I'm slowly getting my issues sorted out one by one.
> 
> - My wood is showing 12-14% moisture.  Seems good.
> 
> ...



Your wood might be too dry, or you just aren't getting enough draft. You should be able to bring the flame almost down to coals and still have the cat lighting off. is this not possible?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2017)

Rahm said:


> Hi, I'm new to the forum.
> 
> I have a 2040 Flexburn. I'm planning to buy the Auber AT 100 to monitor my CAT temp but I don't know which thermocouple to buy with it. Can someone post a link to the appropriate one.
> 
> Thanks.


Are you using a rear heat shield?


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## Reckless (Nov 13, 2017)

Dobish said:


> Your wood might be too dry, or you just aren't getting enough draft. You should be able to bring the flame almost down to coals and still have the cat lighting off. is this not possible?



Too dry? Is that possible? 

With bypass engaged and primary open fully 90% of flames should be going into the throat of the cat and probe temps should climb not stall. Poor draft, leak or damaged cat would be my guess.


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## Rahm (Nov 13, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you using a rear heat shield?



Yes. I am using a rear heat shield.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2017)

azeeb said:


> I'm slowly getting my issues sorted out one by one.
> 
> - My wood is showing 12-14% moisture.  Seems good.
> 
> ...


I think your wood is fine. You are going to want a flue thermometer and a griddle top thermometer. I have less than desirable draft and can still hit 1400 on the cat. What I do on a fresh reload is let my flue temps reach the danger zone (roughly 500*  It's where the safe zone meets the red zone). Doing this my GT is usually between 500 and 600 degrees. Engage damper and I'm off. I will leave primary wide open until cat registers 900 degrees then in small increments start to close primary. With these milder temps it can take a little while to get cruising. Having a 3' horizontal section of pipe and a 90 degree is probably not doing you any favors. Try a couple different burning techniques before you go ripping the upper fire back and damper assembly out.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2017)

Reckless said:


> What's the pipe thermometer reading? My magnet therm with cat engaged cruising at 12-1400 reads around 3-400ish. If you don't have one, get one! In my opinion this stove needs two magnet therms (stove top and pipe) and a digital probe to operate correctly and even then it's a PIA [emoji23][emoji23]
> Stove top inst as crutial, but it gives me an idea of the heat im putting into the room.
> 
> 
> ...


You flue temp will probably run a little lower than 300-400ish. My flue temps are usually locked in at 275-325 when cruising (short stack). Reckless has insane draft that's probably why his flue temps are where they are.


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2017)

Reckless said:


> Too dry? Is that possible?
> 
> With bypass engaged and primary open fully 90% of flames should be going into the throat of the cat and probe temps should climb not stall. Poor draft, leak or damaged cat would be my guess.
> 
> ...


According to the manual it is.  Curious if he can kill the flames with the air control.


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## Reckless (Nov 13, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You flue temp will probably run a little lower than 300-400ish. My flue temps are usually locked in at 275-325 when cruising (short stack). Reckless has insane draft that's probably why his flue temps are where they are.


What are you trying to say?!?!?  My 30' center mass chimney is like a wind tunnel.
Come to think of it I do have a different therm on the stack and it is a little on the high side so you're probably correct.


RandyBoBandy said:


> What I do on a fresh reload is let my flue temps reach the danger zone (roughly 500*  It's where the safe zone meets the red zone). Doing this my GT is usually between 500 and 600 degrees. Engage damper and I'm off. I will leave primary wide open until cat registers 900 degrees then in small increments start to close primary.


I can engage around 4-450 on the same flue therm and get the cat to take off, I dont even pay attn to GT until Im cruising. I dont start closing down until about 1020 and have it half air by 1200. As always YMMV


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2017)

Rahm said:


> Hi, I'm new to the forum.
> 
> I have a 2040 Flexburn. I'm planning to buy the Auber AT 100 to monitor my CAT temp but I don't know which thermocouple to buy with it. Can someone post a link to the appropriate one.
> 
> Thanks.


Welcome to the forum!


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## azeeb (Nov 13, 2017)

I have a magnetic thermometer on the flue, an IR gun, and a probe for the cat

With the bypass closed (cat mode), typically the stove top will be about 500 at a little over 1/2 air setting.  The cat probe is reading about 800, and the flue is about 300-325.  I can kill the flames with the air control.  When the stove is cold, the air intake damper is fully closed when the air control is shut all the way down.  When the stove is hot, the air damper seems to fully close with the control at a little less then half way open.  I assume this is the way the thermostat control is supposed to work?  

How do you all stack your wood in the firebox?  Is there a trick to it?  Should the coals be raked forward? backward?  evenly spread out?  Do you keep wood against the back where the secondary air needs to flow, or try to leave that open?  Or does it not matter?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 13, 2017)

Rahm said:


> Hi, I'm new to the forum.
> 
> I have a 2040 Flexburn. I'm planning to buy the Auber AT 100 to monitor my CAT temp but I don't know which thermocouple to buy with it. Can someone post a link to the appropriate one.
> 
> Thanks.



Welcome aboard. This is a great place. I have the same stove.


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2017)

i rake the coals a little forward, just to clear out the holes for the cat intake. If you can kill the flames, you most likely do not need to replace the gasket on the bypass damper. you may be able to adjust it with the tensioner screw in the front.

Can you snap a picture of your moisture meter on a freshly split piece? i keep thinking that with your draft, and with the setup, it is with the wood.  Are you doing a full load, or 1/2 loads? I found that if I don't fill the stove the whole way, i can't get my cat temps to get up super high. I am generally around 1100 when the cat is going off.


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## azeeb (Nov 13, 2017)

That's the freshly split side.  The other face is about 6%.

My defiant has a big firebox.  I've only been putting 5-6 splits in it.  I really need to get some cut 20-22" long.  What I have is in the normal 16" range which makes it hard to pack the firebox full.  There is a lot of open space on the sides.  I will try loading it up a little more and see what happens.


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## Reckless (Nov 13, 2017)

Just ordered 200' of 5/16th gasket if anyone needs I'll let it go fairly cheap .50/ft shipped or something as long as it fits in small envelope. PM me


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 14, 2017)

Rahm said:


> Yes. I am using a rear heat shield.


You can either buy the 4" probe from condar. It will work with the auber. Or auber has a 6" probe. Make sure it is a K type thermo coupled with a heat rating up to 2000*. It also need to be 1/4" diameter.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 14, 2017)

azeeb said:


> View attachment 215772
> 
> 
> That's the freshly split side.  The other face is about 6%.
> ...


Load some shorties vertical on one side


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 14, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You can either buy the 4" probe from condar. It will work with the auber. Or auber has a 6" probe. Make sure it is a K type thermo coupled with a heat rating up to 2000*. It also need to be 1/4" diameter.


Also you will have to drill a hole in your heat shield if you run the 6" probe


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## Rahm (Nov 14, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You can either buy the 4" probe from condar. It will work with the auber. Or auber has a 6" probe. Make sure it is a K type thermo coupled with a heat rating up to 2000*. It also need to be 1/4" diameter.


Great! Thanks. I'm going to order it today.


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## Diabel (Nov 14, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You can either buy the 4" probe from condar. It will work with the auber. Or auber has a 6" probe. Make sure it is a K type thermo coupled with a heat rating up to 2000*. It also need to be 1/4" diameter.



No heat shield here and I am using the 6" from Auber and it works perfectly.
As for specs....precisely what Randy said


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 14, 2017)

And don't just push probe into stove. Take a 1/4" drill bit and by hand (no drill) gently drill a hole in your refractory box.


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## Reckless (Nov 16, 2017)

Almost cemented closed my gt today but found some mesh gasket from a couple years ago so I decided to give it at least another year or two. I don't ever use the gt to load and I'm tired of replacing a gasket. 


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 16, 2017)

Reckless said:


> Almost cemented closed my gt today but found some mesh gasket from a couple years ago so I decided to give it at least another year or two. I don't ever use the gt to load and I'm tired of replacing a gasket.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really?!?  I only top load when I'm burning 24/7. I hate bending over to load through the doors. Plus, the only way to completely fill the firebox is to top load.  The gasket does get its a$$ kicked top loading all the time. I think I'm going to regasket with regular rope next time though. I used the mesh stuff last time and I'm not really a fan.


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## Reckless (Nov 17, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Really?!?  I only top load when I'm burning 24/7. I hate bending over to load through the doors. Plus, the only way to completely fill the firebox is to top load.  The gasket does get its a$$ kicked top loading all the time. I think I'm going to regasket with regular rope next time though. I used the mesh stuff last time and I'm not really a fan.



I've tried normal stuff too and they both suck. Being all my splits are 18"+ I have a hard time top loading to fill it all the way so I just fill the box then lift up the top split and squeeze more in-between. Not to mention this stove is getting pushed back another 4" into the fire place and then the griddle will be completely useless.




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## jharkin (Dec 5, 2017)

Soooooo.....  I'd like to add something interesting to the discussion. But I have not even lit the stove yet this year.

In fact I only cleaned it out Thanksgiving week.


Our falls and winters are getting warmer and warmer each year.  Its not as bad as 2 years ago when we where outside in shortsleeves on Christmas, but in general its been borderline at best for using it before January the last few years.  This year we have had the odd night down into the 30s but midweek 50+ warmups have been the norm the last few weeks.

Carry on....


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 5, 2017)

jharkin said:


> Soooooo.....  I'd like to add something interesting to the discussion. But I have not even lit the stove yet this year.
> 
> In fact I only cleaned it out Thanksgiving week.
> 
> ...


Next week here in Michigan it will will be a high in the 20's and lows in the teens even down to 10, so they say. Finally good burning weather. My wife is getting fed up with the house being over 75 degrees during the day. It's hard to burn 24/7 when the days get up to the 50's.


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## Reckless (Dec 5, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Next week here in Michigan it will will be a high in the 20's and lows in the teens even down to 10, so they say. Finally good burning weather. My wife is getting fed up with the house being over 75 degrees during the day. It's hard to burn 24/7 when the days get up to the 50's.



I can't even burn when it's over freezing. House gets up to low to mid 80s


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 5, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I can't even burn when it's over freezing. House gets up to low to mid 80s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are definitely some open widows at times.


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I can't even burn when it's over freezing. House gets up to low to mid 80s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have the same issue... I used to light it in the 40s, but after we had hte house re-insulated that would overheat it too easily.  Now I only use it if its its going to be in the 30s and cloudy, or its giong to be below freezing and sunny.

It was 57F when I left for work this morning. 

This is December.


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## Dobish (Dec 6, 2017)

we have been on and off again, so we have done a bunch of cold starts. I loaded up a full load of pine and russian olive last night around 11am, but it was only ashes in the stove this morning, griddle temp was down to 140º, entire house was sitting between 58-62.  I didn't think it had gotten that cold outside last night, but it was down to 16º. Also, it turns out one of the upstairs windows was cracked...


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## Diabel (Dec 6, 2017)

I think I will do the annual chimney cleaning tomorrow.  I'm about done with the hemlock and ready to get into some real wood, hence need the pipe clean. The temps are to go to way sub zero (-*C) so I want to be ready. The hemlock kept the house warm since mid Oct.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 6, 2017)

Diabel said:


> I think I will do the annual chimney cleaning tomorrow.  I'm about done with the hemlock and ready to get into some real wood, hence need the pipe clean. The temps are to go to way sub zero (-*C) so I want to be ready. The hemlock kept the house warm since mid Oct.


I'm excited to get into my oak next week highs in mid to upper 20's and lows could get down to the low teens


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## Dobish (Dec 7, 2017)

I just got my AT100 and started playing with it. I need to add an outlet to be somewhere near my stove though....


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 7, 2017)

Extension cord for the meantime. I feel lost when we loose power and I have to cruise blind. I need to order another one for my difiant upnorth.


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## Dobish (Dec 7, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Extension cord for the meantime. I feel lost when we loose power and I have to cruise blind. I need to order another one for my difiant upnorth.



there is no way that i can run an exension cord. The nearest outlet is across a door, around 2 corners and across the hallway, or outside!  Hence, I will be adding an outlet right next to the stove.  I have my thermometer in there right now, and i've got a pretty good handle on my temps, so i'm not worried about it!

I did have some issues with the calibration, but I think i got it figure out. If anyone knows how to reset the max temp, that would be great. I may or may not have put the wires in backwards and the max temp is 5712.


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## jharkin (Dec 9, 2017)

UGH.

Finally cold enough this weekend to burn.  Fired it up Fri morning, burned ok thought the day and at 9pm loaded up for an overnight.  Did not pack it stuffed, just full  with a mix of hard oak and some lighter stuff. 

Outside temps where mild - maybe 28-30 overnight.

Of course it went nuclear.  Got up to 1650 by 10pm so I opened the bypass to cool it off all the way down to 1000.   Then reset and went to bed and in 45 minutes it ran back up to 1750 around 11:15pm.  At this point the load was over half burned down so I figured it has to peak soon,  knocked it down, left it on bypass for 10 min to cool off again and then shut it down and turned off the alarm to sleep.

It may have gone nuclear again overnight but no signs of damage this morning. Lord only knows how many times it went nuclear before I had an alarm.

I'm done.  I'm just not going to pack it full for overnights anymore, period. I simply cant trust it and Ive tried EVERYTHING.  rebuilds, gaskets all pass the dollar test, did reckless mod to close the secondary.  nothing works.

From now on I'm going to use it more for backup heat and only put a few splits in overnight to carry some coals for hte morning. let hte gas heat do hte heavy lifting.  Its just not worth the headache


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2017)

jharkin said:


> UGH.
> 
> Finally cold enough this weekend to burn.  Fired it up Fri morning, burned ok thought the day and at 9pm loaded up for an overnight.  Did not pack it stuffed, just full  with a mix of hard oak and some lighter stuff.
> 
> ...


Bum deal man. You blockd off your secondary completely?  I just changed my timing and knocked out the little pin in the flapper so it will close all the way. Is your draft insane?  Have you tried plugging the EPA holes?  With my secondary mods I can close my primary all the way and basically shut down the stove. Cat temps won't go above 1200 if I close primary all the way.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 20, 2017)

Anyone here running a 6" flue on your encore? And if so are you running a round flue collar or oval?


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## Diabel (Dec 20, 2017)

6" and oval here


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 20, 2017)

Diabel said:


> 6" and oval here


How does your 2550 run on the 6"?  Is it the same flue collar as the 8", just different adaptor? I need to update my chimney setup and was thinking of converting to a 6" system. Seeing as how every newer stove runs on 6" now I do not want to do this again when I purchase a new stove down the road.


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## Diabel (Dec 21, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> How does your 2550 run on the 6"?  Is it the same flue collar as the 8", just different adaptor? I need to update my chimney setup and was thinking of converting to a 6" system. Seeing as how every newer stove runs on 6" now I do not want to do this again when I purchase a new stove down the road.


Same collar. 
I have a friend who runs a 2140 on a 8" pipe that goes into a stone chimney and if the stove is wide open the flames (to me) appears very sluggish. Pretty much the same length overall chimney length.

With mine, while wide open the flame is very lively I believe due to very strong draft caused by the 6" pipe.


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## Reckless (Dec 21, 2017)

I run 6" round and it runs fine for me.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I run 6" round and it runs fine for me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you buy your stove with the round flue collar on or did you swap it yourself?


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## Reckless (Dec 22, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Did you buy your stove with the round flue collar on or did you swap it yourself?



Oval and bought the round from the aforementioned  Wearhouse site. It's non enameled black but so is the new rear I purchased too. The whole thing sits hidden anyway.


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## Reckless (Dec 22, 2017)

jharkin said:


> UGH.
> 
> Finally cold enough this weekend to burn.  Fired it up Fri morning, burned ok thought the day and at 9pm loaded up for an overnight.  Did not pack it stuffed, just full  with a mix of hard oak and some lighter stuff.
> 
> ...



Sounds oh too familiar. Try reloading a little hotter (cat temp 6-700), get the cat up to temp quick and start shutting it down sooner (1050 1/4-1/3 shut). Also 1/2-3/4 full pulled to the front away from the throat. Even with all this I still worry about this thing trying to commit suicide lol. YMMV but this is what works for me with this unpredictable heat generator. How closed can you get your primary with out back puffing or your cat getting overwhelmed? I can only close mine 2/3-3/4 and even then the fames sometimes disappear. My 2ndary is still blocked and ash pan full which is the same as blocking both EPA (only one is truly blocked at this point) next stop is cementing the griddle, I really think no matter how well you gasket that thing it still let's air in....

It's strange that I can run this thing all day without thinking about it and control the output for the most part but whenever I go to load for the overnight I end up messing with it a bunch and way over think it and it ends up not doing what I want anyway..... Sounds like life lol


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## Reckless (Dec 22, 2017)

**After thought** I haven't seen my cat go over 1550 in a long time so 16-17 could be panic mode depending on flue temps but bypass open and primary closed is a safe bet at that point.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 22, 2017)

I had a load last night take almost an hour to get up to 1000* (cat) then as I started to shut primary down it stalled out and dropped to 650.   Opened damper and let the load flame up again. Closed damper and the thing shot up to 1480. I was then able to cruise at 1350. Weird stuff. I did have a good sized round in there. Maybe MC was a little high on that load.


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## defiant3 (Dec 23, 2017)

Usual problem ares on 2550's are:  ash pan doors, and tops.  Wonder if you've had th top off and recemented?  Hav eyou plugged the bleeder holes?  Sorry, not trying to beat the dead horse here but they are frustrating stoves sometimes.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

I recently replaced the griddle gasket. Unfortunately I didn't knead the cement enough and it was liquidy. So the rope ended up soaking it up and turning to rock. So needless to say I'm sure I'm leaking through the top. I found another shop near by and picked up a bunch of gasket. I'm thinking of putting in regular gasket this time instead of the wire mesh. Any thoughts?  Also do you think high temp silicone will work on the griddle gasket?  I hate the Rutland cement.


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## Diabel (Dec 23, 2017)

Back in Nov. I was driving by one of the stove shops, decided that it was time to replace my griddle gasket. I usually use the 5/8 gray regular gasket and it lasts about 1 1/2 seasons. This time I thought to switch it up a bit and ended up buying the wire mesh gasket. 
I believe I did a very good job cleaning the old cement. The whole process lasted 15min. I decided to give the stove a good cleaning and brushed the cat with a soft paint brush.
Fired the stove up the next day, all was good until I shut the unit down completely (as I always do) for the long burn. With the stove turned down completely I still had lots of lively flame in the box. The stove burnt very hot, cat spiked to 1700 and the flue probe reached unprecedented 600. 

I let the load burn out. The next day I went to the shop, picked up some regular graphite 5/8 gasket, ripped out the wire gasket, waited few hrs for the cement to cure. Fired the stove.

It is now running as it should. The wire gasket was letting too much air in.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 23, 2017)

Good morning to all my VC brothers. I am looking for a replacement cat. The one i just put in warped out in a weeks time... cheap cat on Amazon its a condar cc800.. stay away.. the metal frame warped.
I am looking for a better grade cat, but am having trouble getting info for a cat for the 2040 2in1 encore
Looking at both steal and ceramic
Some help would be awesome 

John


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

I'm currently using a ceramic honeycomb a local dealer fold me. Works good. A little sluggish to start this year after I ran a qtip through each cell. I'm thinking of doing a cat boil if we get another warm spell. I just stumbled upon a different manufacturer last night and was interested in checking it out. Go to clearskiesunlimited.com or stovecombustors.com.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 23, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I'm currently using a ceramic honeycomb a local dealer fold me. Works good. A little sluggish to start this year after I ran a qtip through each cell. I'm thinking of doing a cat boil if we get another warm spell. I just stumbled upon a different manufacturer last night and was interested in checking it out. Go to clearskiesunlimited.com or stovecombustors.com.



Thanks randy

No luck there.. nothing for the 2040

What are peopls thpughts on a steel cat.. dose anyone run one and if so.. is it worth a purchase


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thanks randy
> 
> No luck there.. nothing for the 2040
> 
> What are peopls thpughts on a steel cat.. dose anyone run one and if so.. is it worth a purchase


What are your cat demensions?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 23, 2017)

12.75x 2.5x 1
    L.      W.     H


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## ajayabb (Dec 23, 2017)

There's a couple on eBay 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253294044128


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

I want to say @jharkin had a steel cat. He has been quiet this year so hopefully he can chime in and share his thoughts. If you read through his rebuild thread I think he talks about his steel cat some.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Good morning to all my VC brothers. I am looking for a replacement cat. The one i just put in warped out in a weeks time... cheap cat on Amazon its a condar cc800.. stay away.. the metal frame warped.
> I am looking for a better grade cat, but am having trouble getting info for a cat for the 2040 2in1 encore
> Looking at both steal and ceramic
> Some help would be awesome
> ...


Condar should replace it under warranty if you just bought it.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 23, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Condar should replace it under warranty if you just bought it.



Yes. But i dont want another one. Looking for a different brand and or model. 
I will send it for replacement, but looking for different options. Looking at firecat trying to get a steel one. 
I looked up the ones in the link above on ebay but they dont state a brand name on them, so i am  leary on purchasing them.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 23, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> do you think high temp silicone will work on the griddle gasket?  I hate the Rutland cement.


I felt safe using silicone on the Buck door gasket since the cast door frame and gasket is protected from direct radiation due to its being on the outside of the door opening in the front plate of the stove...if that makes any sense. 
I wouldn't use silicone on my other stoves (Dw 2460 and Keystone) since they have cast doors  that take direct radiation, and the gasket is seated into a groove around the edge of the door. Seems like that might be the case with the grill top as well..


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## Woody Stover (Dec 23, 2017)

Now, the 1100-degree silicone might work..


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 23, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Now, the 1100-degree silicone might work..
> View attachment 218559
> View attachment 218560


It's worth trying.


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## Diabel (Dec 24, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I'm currently using a ceramic honeycomb a local dealer fold me. Works good. A little sluggish to start this year after I ran a qtip through each cell. I'm thinking of doing a cat boil if we get another warm spell. I just stumbled upon a different manufacturer last night and was interested in checking it out. Go to clearskiesunlimited.com or stovecombustors.com.




Few yrs back I picked one of the steel cats. I can not remember the manufacturer. It was one of the cats where it's can was made of the thin layer of steel. 
I installed it in my old 0028 (badly needing rebuilding). The refractory was also in a bad shape.
At the beginning the ignition was excellent, after a month of usage I decided to check it out and maybe brush it. Well, the cat was totally deformed. I am sure it was mostly user error, putting a cat in a leaky stove which caused to run hot. But the design of the cat was not very smart at all, the can should be designed the same way as the ceramic cats. 

I just went on Condar site and indeed the steel cats cans look the same as the ceramic.

Btw I just ordered a new Condar ceramic cat for next year.


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## Diabel (Dec 24, 2017)

View attachment 218624


Diabel said:


> Few yrs back I picked one of the steel cats. I can not remember the manufacturer. It was one of the cats where it's can was made of the thin layer of steel.
> I installed it in my old 0028 (badly needing rebuilding). The refractory was also in a bad shape.
> At the beginning the ignition was excellent, after a month of usage I decided to check it out and maybe brush it. Well, the cat was totally deformed. I am sure it was mostly user error, putting a cat in a leaky stove which caused to run hot. But the design of the cat was not very smart at all, the can should be designed the same way as the ceramic cats.
> 
> ...


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## Woody Stover (Dec 24, 2017)

Diabel said:


> Few yrs back I picked one of the steel cats. I can not remember the manufacturer. It was one of the cats where it's can was made of the thin layer of steel.


That is a diesel-foil cat. I had a few in different stove belonging to family members. If you didn't fire them too hot, they held up OK. My one SIL fired hers pretty hot, and it deformed to the point where it was hard to seal between it and the cat frame. The ones Woodstock and BK use now are Durafoil; I don't think they are as likely to severely deform.
*First pic is a diesel-foil cat, similar in appearance to yours. Second is the Durafoil.*


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 24, 2017)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 218624


Yikes


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## ajayabb (Dec 24, 2017)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 218624



Wow.  I thought that was a charred piece of wood before I realized that it was the steel cat


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## Diabel (Dec 24, 2017)

Whenever I hear people say my cat disintegrated/failed/crumbled I believe it is 100% due to over fire caused by failing gaskets/seals therefore pure neglect of the user.


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## defiant3 (Dec 24, 2017)

Another common problem in V.C. Defiants , Encores, and Intrepid II's is the secondary air probe, which should be replaced at the same time as the cat.  Dealers don't seem to know this so I don't know how stove owners are supposed to but it's definitely a thing.  Without the probe functioning properly the secondary air gte remains OPEN and allows the cat. to overfire.  Worse yet, you may not even know it as stovetop temp. may seem normal!  Unless you have a probe thermos. for the cat. you may never know there's a problem.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 24, 2017)

I had an incident a couple weeks ago where my secondary probe went past "center" and started opening again. When the stove went cold I found the timing around 3 o'clock. I don't know if the bimetallic coil sacks out over time or if the assembly slipped timing. The lock nut was a little loose. I retimed the probe to 1:30-2 and put a little magnet on the bottom of the stove to keep the flapper from going past completely closed.


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## ajayabb (Dec 24, 2017)

defiant3 said:


> Another common problem in V.C. Defiants , Encores, and Intrepid II's is the secondary air probe, which should be replaced at the same time as the cat.  Dealers don't seem to know this so I don't know how stove owners are supposed to but it's definitely a thing.  Without the probe functioning properly the secondary air gte remains OPEN and allows the cat. to overfire.  Worse yet, you may not even know it as stovetop temp. may seem normal!  Unless you have a probe thermos. for the cat. you may never know there's a problem.



Good to know.  I'll have to take the panel off and check the probe when the stove cools down and make sure it works. 


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## Reckless (Dec 26, 2017)

16F going down to 8...... Finally 


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 26, 2017)

getting chilly here to. Time to really crank up the heat.


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## Reckless (Dec 26, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I want to say @jharkin had a steel cat. He has been quiet this year so hopefully he can chime in and share his thoughts. If you read through his rebuild thread I think he talks about his steel cat some.



He returned it and went back ceramic after poor performance if I remember correctly


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)




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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

I wish my draft was this good all the time


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## Reckless (Dec 27, 2017)

My first real overnight burn last night peaked at 1405 and just enough coals to get going this morning after 9hrs


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## Dobish (Dec 27, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Good morning to all my VC brothers. I am looking for a replacement cat. The one i just put in warped out in a weeks time... cheap cat on Amazon its a condar cc800.. stay away.. the metal frame warped.
> I am looking for a better grade cat, but am having trouble getting info for a cat for the 2040 2in1 encore
> Looking at both steal and ceramic
> Some help would be awesome
> ...


i picked mine up from VC direct, and they have a warranty program which is pretty decent. I haven't really had any issues with it....

i did come back from 3 days away, and this is what my cat temp was though   (the picture looks sort of like the first number is a 9, but it is a 3)


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

Reckless said:


> My first real overnight burn last night peaked at 1405 and just enough coals to get going this morning after 9hrs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First overnight burn? Wow. I've been running 24/7 for awhile now. Also been heating us out of the house a few times to.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

Reckless said:


> My first real overnight burn last night peaked at 1405 and just enough coals to get going this morning after 9hrs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you shutting your primary all the way down?  How are you keeping your peak at 1400?  My oak and ash load peaked at 1460-1470 last night.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

That's some cold indoor temps.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

Drove up to the cabin today so now I get to play with the Difiant. Suppose to hit -5 tonight... should be some good secondaries to watch while I sip on some good whiskey.


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## ajayabb (Dec 27, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Drove up to the cabin today so now I get to play with the Difiant. Suppose to hit -5 tonight... should be some good secondaries to watch while I sip on some good whiskey.



Looks fantastic. I guess these VC stoves do perform pretty well


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2017)

ajayabb said:


> Looks fantastic. I guess these VC stoves do perform pretty well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not going to lie. They do have their frustrations but when they run good it's beautiful thing.


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## Reckless (Dec 27, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you shutting your primary all the way down?  How are you keeping your peak at 1400?  My oak and ash load peaked at 1460-1470 last night.



About 1/3 open which is the equivalent of most of everyone elses closed lol.
Ash and sugar maple  roughly 3/4 full box


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## Reckless (Dec 27, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> First overnight burn? Wow. I've been running 24/7 for awhile now. Also been heating us out of the house a few times to.



Been too warm to burn overnight or to burn at all really. This cold spell is just what the dr ordered.


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## Reckless (Dec 28, 2017)

This is what you want to see about half way through an overnight. Ended up turning the air down a little more but at 7am this morning about 300 on the cat and enough coals to get me going again. Stay warm brothers.



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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 28, 2017)

Reckless said:


> This is what you want to see about half way through an overnight. Ended up turning the air down a little more but at 7am this morning about 300 on the cat and enough coals to get me going again. Stay warm brothers.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Awesome


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## Diabel (Dec 28, 2017)

I thought you snuck into my house overnight to take that vid.

This is exactly what I get about 4hrs into the burn, using ask and silver maple. 

Once I get into sugar maple and BL/HL then the burn extends couple of hrs and the flame (5hrs into the burn) is nice blue colour.


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## Basisforbart (Dec 29, 2017)

I have been creeping and reading for the last few days trying to figure out my issues but thought I would just post and see what wisdom you guys can provide.  Had a VC 2040 installed in November, over 25 foot stack double wall with great draw, wood moisture content 15-20%.  I have yet to do an all night burn because I can't keep my griddle temps down, I have a magnetic therm and an IR.  My griddle temps usually run from 500-700 but have seen up to 750 on the magnetic therm, while the IR reads from 450-550F in the same locations.  I am getting these temps with the CAT engaged and running around 900-1100F and the air control all the way down.  I did a dollar test this morning and found that many areas on the front doors I can just pull the bill out with very little resistance and at the griddle.  If I add 2-3 splits around 3-4" I can only get about an hour and a half burn with the air control all the way down.  I am assuming due to the bill test that I have a gasket issue which is causing air into the firebox and keeping my stove way to hot.  Please help me figure out how to love this stove, thanks.


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## Reckless (Dec 29, 2017)

Basisforbart said:


> My griddle temps usually run from 500-700 but have seen up to 750 on the magnetic therm, while the IR reads from 450-550F in the same locations.  I am getting these temps with the CAT engaged and running around 900-1100F and the air control all the way down.



This.... Have you tried a different magnetic therm? Buy a second if you don't own one already as you need all the help you can. Put the current one on the stack and new one in the GT. I cannot imagine a world where you are 900-1000 CT and 750 GT but my stove is different. For mine to be that hot the CT would be 1400+ and the stack would be 4-500+ range with really active flames all going directly up and not towards the cat. Good luck hope it's just a faulty MT.

Easier yet toss your MT in the oven next time your cooking something in the 400-450 range and see what it reads.

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## Dobish (Dec 29, 2017)

Basisforbart said:


> I have been creeping and reading for the last few days trying to figure out my issues but thought I would just post and see what wisdom you guys can provide.  Had a VC 2040 installed in November, over 25 foot stack double wall with great draw, wood moisture content 15-20%.  I have yet to do an all night burn because I can't keep my griddle temps down, I have a magnetic therm and an IR.  My griddle temps usually run from 500-700 but have seen up to 750 on the magnetic therm, while the IR reads from 450-550F in the same locations.  I am getting these temps with the CAT engaged and running around 900-1100F and the air control all the way down.  I did a dollar test this morning and found that many areas on the front doors I can just pull the bill out with very little resistance and at the griddle.  If I add 2-3 splits around 3-4" I can only get about an hour and a half burn with the air control all the way down.  I am assuming due to the bill test that I have a gasket issue which is causing air into the firebox and keeping my stove way to hot.  Please help me figure out how to love this stove, thanks.


Did you adjust the tension on the door handle? Gaskets might have compressed a bit.


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## Basisforbart (Dec 29, 2017)

Dobish said:


> Did you adjust the tension on the door handle? Gaskets might have compressed a bit.



Dob, I have not tried to adjust the tension, I will break out the owners manual and hope that it tells me how to do that.

Reckless, I will grab a new magnet therm today and try out your method.

Another thing I have going on is that when I adjust the air control I can hear it clicking, almost like the wire has tightened up, I am guessing this isn't supposed to happen after about a dozen uses?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 29, 2017)

Basisforbart said:


> I have been creeping and reading for the last few days trying to figure out my issues but thought I would just post and see what wisdom you guys can provide.  Had a VC 2040 installed in November, over 25 foot stack double wall with great draw, wood moisture content 15-20%.  I have yet to do an all night burn because I can't keep my griddle temps down, I have a magnetic therm and an IR.  My griddle temps usually run from 500-700 but have seen up to 750 on the magnetic therm, while the IR reads from 450-550F in the same locations.  I am getting these temps with the CAT engaged and running around 900-1100F and the air control all the way down.  I did a dollar test this morning and found that many areas on the front doors I can just pull the bill out with very little resistance and at the griddle.  If I add 2-3 splits around 3-4" I can only get about an hour and a half burn with the air control all the way down.  I am assuming due to the bill test that I have a gasket issue which is causing air into the firebox and keeping my stove way to hot.  Please help me figure out how to love this stove, thanks.


Try and tighten up your door latch a little bit. If you door gaskets are still not passing the dollar bill test call your installed or dealer and make them fix it. With turning the primary all the way down you shouldn't be hitting 700 GT.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 29, 2017)

Basisforbart said:


> Dob, I have not tried to adjust the tension, I will break out the owners manual and hope that it tells me how to do that.
> 
> Reckless, I will grab a new magnet therm today and try out your method.
> 
> Another thing I have going on is that when I adjust the air control I can hear it clicking, almost like the wire has tightened up, I am guessing this isn't supposed to happen after about a dozen uses?


Can you go into more detail about the "clicking"? Is it something you feel or hear?  Sometimes my air control is real easy to move and sometimes it is stiff. I think this has to do with the side side panels expanding and contracting


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## Basisforbart (Dec 29, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Can you go into more detail about the "clicking"? Is it something you feel or hear?  Sometimes my air control is real easy to move and sometimes it is stiff. I think this has to do with the side side panels expanding and contracting



Randy, I assume that the wire moving the air control is a spun wire and the clicking sounds like some of the wire is getting caught and then released, almost like a guitar string if you take a pick down the side of it.  I have tested a floor model and it is much looser than mine with no clicking.  It feels like the wire tightened up due to heat but hasn't loosed when cooled. The air control seems to still work and I can hear the flap open and close when I move it fast enough.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 29, 2017)

The cable should, in theory, get looser as it heats up. The bimetallic coil should expand when it gets hotter to self adjust the primary flapper. Both my stoves primary controls make noises when cold and on fire ups. Must have something to do with everything expanding at different rates.


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## Diabel (Dec 29, 2017)

Basis,

When you shut the primary air completely do you loose all the flame in the firebox?

Btw the magnetic thermos are grossly inaccurate!

I seldom look at it, when I feel the stove top is really hot I stick the IR gun to it.

The cat temp and the flue temp (interior) is what I go by.


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## Reckless (Dec 29, 2017)

I may be off here but if basis had a leak he would have problems controlling his cat temps, not his GT..... 


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## Basisforbart (Dec 29, 2017)

Diabel said:


> Basis,
> 
> When you shut the primary air completely do you loose all the flame in the firebox?
> 
> ...



Most of the time when I close the primary (outside temps 30 and above) I do loose the flame and adjust accordingly.  The past couple nights (outside temps under 20F) I still have flame, not a full box of flame usually just in one area but not a lazy flame.

I figured the magnetic thermos were inaccurate but it seems to be accurate for the inside box temp but since I am new to this stove wasn't sure.  My IR of the GT is usually less than 600F so I will go by that.  I do plan on doing the AT100 and probe for the stack soon so I can get better control of this stove.


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## Dobish (Dec 29, 2017)

I had my alarm go off at 1600 last night...


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## Diabel (Dec 29, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I may be off here but if basis had a leak he would have problems controlling his cat temps, not his GT.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




You are correct. When I installed my new leaky wiremesh griddle gasket, both CT and griddle went crazy.


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## chance04 (Dec 30, 2017)

My Co worker just bought a home with a VC 2080 insert. During this cold snap he has been burning some of my seasoned wood and some of those blocks from the TSC . Yesterday he sends me a text saying he is never using this stove again, that the catalyst shield and catalyst simply fell into the fire and we're sitting in a ashes as the fire burned out. Anyone have any experience with this insert have any advise? I haven't been over to his place to check it out but I'm thinking he will be insert shopping before long.

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## Reckless (Dec 31, 2017)

chance04 said:


> My Co worker just bought a home with a VC 2080 insert. During this cold snap he has been burning some of my seasoned wood and some of those blocks from the TSC . Yesterday he sends me a text saying he is never using this stove again, that the catalyst shield and catalyst simply fell into the fire and we're sitting in a ashes as the fire burned out. Anyone have any experience with this insert have any advise? I haven't been over to his place to check it out but I'm thinking he will be insert shopping before long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Not sure how... I've never seen this stove but looking at the manual it looks allot like most of our setups. Maybe he forgot to install the wedges??
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1...nterwarm-Small-Insert-2080.html?page=9#manual


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## chance04 (Dec 31, 2017)

Reckless said:


> Not sure how... I've never seen this size but looking at the manual it looks allot like most of our setups. Maybe he forgot to install the wedges??
> https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1...nterwarm-Small-Insert-2080.html?page=9#manual
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He hasn't done anything but take a gander up the flue and bum dry wood off of me to try and keep warm. He has only lived there about a month

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## Reckless (Dec 31, 2017)

chance04 said:


> He hasn't done anything but take a gander up the flue and bum dry wood off of me to try and keep warm. He has only lived there about a month
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Thus you here asking and not him lol. I would let him be until he figures it out. Don't set yourself up to be cleaning his chimney every year [emoji23][emoji23]


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## chance04 (Dec 31, 2017)

Reckless said:


> Thus you here asking and not him lol. I would let him be until he figures it out. Don't set yourself up to be cleaning his chimney every year [emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm gonna be at his place come this week at some point so either put it back together or rip the whole mess out and change out inserts.  Lol I'm just looking to see what I will be getting into

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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 31, 2017)

Like reckless said. Look for the wedges.


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## jharkin (Jan 4, 2018)

Sorry guys, things have been so busy this fall/winter (work/family) Ive been away.



Reckless said:


> Sounds oh too familiar. Try reloading a little hotter (cat temp 6-700), get the cat up to temp quick and start shutting it down sooner (1050 1/4-1/3 shut). Also 1/2-3/4 full pulled to the front away from the throat. Even with all this I still worry about this thing trying to commit suicide lol. YMMV but this is what works for me with this unpredictable heat generator. How closed can you get your primary with out back puffing or your cat getting overwhelmed? I can only close mine 2/3-3/4 and even then the fames sometimes disappear. My 2ndary is still blocked and ash pan full which is the same as blocking both EPA (only one is truly blocked at this point) next stop is cementing the griddle, I really think no matter how well you gasket that thing it still let's air in....
> 
> It's strange that I can run this thing all day without thinking about it and control the output for the most part but whenever I go to load for the overnight I end up messing with it a bunch and way over think it and it ends up not doing what I want anyway..... Sounds like life lol
> 
> ...



So I figured things out.  I had done your mod last year to change the timing and remove the pin that holds the secondary open, but then I was having lightoff problems.  So I ended up putting a paperclip in the opening to keep it from fully closing.

THAT is what was causing my overfires.  I pulled the paperclip again and now its controllable.  Turn the main down and the cat temp reduces again (haleluja).  Highest Ive seen now is 1500, and that was in zero temps on huge loads.

Unfortunately the light off problems are back.  Start a big load without a good coal base and it takes_* forever*_ to light off and will stall sometimes.  Decided I'd rather live with that than the thermonuclear runaway.





RandyBoBandy said:


> I want to say @jharkin had a steel cat. He has been quiet this year so hopefully he can chime in and share his thoughts. If you read through his rebuild thread I think he talks about his steel cat some.



I had a Condar Steel cat.  gave me a lot of problems and eventually I swapped it back to the ceramic. Condar tech support told me some stoves just dont play well with steel and the 2550 is one of those.

In other threads they have discussed that there are different types of steel (diesel foil?  and another type I forget which). So other brands of steel may work better.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

I just discovered my defiant has a steel cat when I went to inspect it. It's a cabin burner so it doesn't get used much. What I have noticed with it is that light off is more like a roller coaster. Slow climb to 900* then it takes off like a rocket. Close air by 1/3. Cat temps fall, sometimes below 800*. Then another climb up into the 1300-1400's. Close air again. Drops to about 1000 then climbs again. I will be putting in a ceramic cat before next burn season.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

jharkin said:


> Sorry guys, things have been so busy this fall/winter (work/family) Ive been away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What timing do you have your secondary at?  I set my at 1:30-2:00 to keep it open longer to help with a good light off. I also put a small magnet on the back just below the secondary opening to keep the flapper from going past fully closed. If the flapper hangs to low it will create an opening in the upper right corner letting air in again sending the cat into a nuclear runaway.


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## jharkin (Jan 4, 2018)

I'll have to check it next time it cools down, but I think its set similar.  I put a brick under the secondary to stop it from falling to far and reopening at the top.


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## Diabel (Jan 4, 2018)

My secondary is still taped shut (with aluminum tape). The stove works great! The reckless mode worked out great in my situation.

Keep tinkering guys, it is all about the user....


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## Reckless (Jan 4, 2018)

jharkin said:


> Sorry guys, things have been so busy this fall/winter (work/family) Ive been away.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the light off problems are back.  Start a big load without a good coal base and it takes_* forever*_ to light off and will stall sometimes.  Decided I'd rather live with that than the thermonuclear runaway.



I got some draft you guys can borrow [emoji23][emoji23] only time I have light off issues is with straight white oak, it always just smolders on me unless I mix with ash.... This stove loves ash or red oak. 

Stove went full 1600 the other night when it was -8 I couldnt get the cat to shut down as it sounded like a jet engine. Tried closing the primary and immediate back puffing... Opened the bypass with the air off and watched the secondary burn flame show as my throat hood went from cherry red back to cast brown. closed the bypass at 1300s and had full control back.... This stove makes it interesting that's for sure


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## begreen (Jan 4, 2018)

Reckless said:


> I got some draft you guys can borrow [emoji23][emoji23] only time I have light off issues is with straight white oak, it always just smolders on me unless I mix with ash.... This stove loves ash or red oak.
> 
> Stove went full 1600 the other night when it was -8 I couldnt get the cat to shut down as it sounded like a jet engine. Tried closing the primary and immediate back puffing... Opened the bypass with the air off and watched the secondary burn flame show as my throat hood went from cherry red back to cast brown. closed the bypass at 1300s and had full control back.... This stove makes it interesting that's for sure


White oak needs a long time to season, ash seasons quickly. Give the oak another year and it may be fine.

Is the stove normally better behaved? Does not seem too convenient. I'd be concerned about leaving the stove untended.


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## Reckless (Jan 4, 2018)

begreen said:


> White oak needs a long time to season, ash seasons quickly. Give the oak another year and it may be fine.
> 
> Is the stove normally better behaved? Does not seem too convenient. I'd be concerned about leaving the stove untended.



That oak is 5 yrs CSS and was dead standing when I cut it. The stove is fine as I know immediately after light off by sound alone if it is traveling to the moon or not and can adjust accordingly. Once established it cruises 13-1400s at 1/2 air. On top of all this stove is sitting in a fire place so if anything did ever happen it would be secure (I think the cat would crumble before full thermonuclear melt down occurred).


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## Dobish (Jan 4, 2018)

Since I put in the AT100, I have been keeping closer eye on my temps. I feel like my cat temp has been hanging out around 800, and will peak around 1200. I have seen it get as high as 1670, but that was when it was super cold out, and I packed it full with elm, maple and some pine. My griddle temps stay around 450-550, and flue temps are around 350.

Maybe i'm not packing it full enough and there is a lot of air space in there?  Weak draft?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

Dobish said:


> Since I put in the AT100, I have been keeping closer eye on my temps. I feel like my cat temp has been hanging out around 800, and will peak around 1200. I have seen it get as high as 1670, but that was when it was super cold out, and I packed it full with elm, maple and some pine. My griddle temps stay around 450-550, and flue temps are around 350.
> 
> Maybe i'm not packing it full enough and there is a lot of air space in there?  Weak draft?


800-1200 is amazing. Even with my secondary mods my cat will peak at 1500+ generally cruise between 1300-1400. I have crap draft too. Spring is the start of a new hearth and chimney setup. Going to switch over to 6" and add some length to it as well.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

begreen said:


> White oak needs a long time to season, ash seasons quickly. Give the oak another year and it may be fine.
> 
> Is the stove normally better behaved? Does not seem too convenient. I'd be concerned about leaving the stove untended.


Usually when the cat decides to runaway the rest of the stove is tame. I've never seen my griddle top go over 650-700 degrees when damper is closed. What kind of temps can a refractory box handle?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

What do you guys have your high and low alarms set at on your At100?  Seems like I'm either doing something wrong or I have a faulty unit. Can't seem to get both alarms to work properly.


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## Dobish (Jan 4, 2018)

i have only 1 series set, and it is set for a max of 1600.  Try playing around with the settings to make sure it goes off. I did it with a max of 73, just to make sure it when off!


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

I just set both alarms AH1 = 900. AL1 = 800
                                  AH2 = 1500. AL2 = 800. 

We will see what happens. In the past only the first alarm would buzz.


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## Dobish (Jan 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I just set both alarms AH1 = 900. AL1 = 800
> AH2 = 1500. AL2 = 800.
> 
> We will see what happens. In the past only the first alarm would buzz.


this seems like the buzzer would be going off from 900 through 1500+ with your setting.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2018)

Dobish said:


> this seems like the buzzer would be going off from 900 through 1500+ with your setting.


The way I understand it is when the first alarm goes off at 900 you push the > button to turn it off. Then if the cat hits 1500 alarm two buzzs away until you hit the button again. I may have this wrong I suppose


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## Reckless (Jan 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> What do you guys have your high and low alarms set at on your At100?  Seems like I'm either doing something wrong or I have a faulty unit. Can't seem to get both alarms to work properly.



I never figured out the second alarm so I just run the low alarm to alert me when the cat is 1020 after closing the bypass


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## Jeanie Cannon (Jan 6, 2018)

Hello, we are VC owners in the Texas Hill Country. We have owned a Defiant Encore 2550 since 1998 and absolutely love it! We need to purchase a Rear Heat Shield and wondered if there was any other route besides the retailer from whom we purchased the stove. Also, we are only 18" from the wall and if we can't purchase a heat shield what would be the best option for covering the wall behind our stove in order to be compliant with the fire code?


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## Reckless (Jan 7, 2018)

Jeanie Cannon said:


> Hello, we are VC owners in the Texas Hill Country. We have owned a Defiant Encore 2550 since 1998 and absolutely love it! We need to purchase a Rear Heat Shield and wondered if there was any other route besides the retailer from whom we purchased the stove. Also, we are only 18" from the wall and if we can't purchase a heat shield what would be the best option for covering the wall behind our stove in order to be compliant with the fire code?



Got a part number? 
https://www.plumbersstock.com/vermont-castings.html


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 7, 2018)

Black swan or woodman direct should have it.


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## Diabel (Jan 7, 2018)

Jeanie Cannon said:


> Hello, we are VC owners in the Texas Hill Country. We have owned a Defiant Encore 2550 since 1998 and absolutely love it! We need to purchase a Rear Heat Shield and wondered if there was any other route besides the retailer from whom we purchased the stove. Also, we are only 18" from the wall and if we can't purchase a heat shield what would be the best option for covering the wall behind our stove in order to be compliant with the fire code?



Welcome to the forum!

Ideally, building a second wall behind the stove would be best. It can even be a piece of sheet metal as long as it has 1" space/gap between it self and the existing wall. This secondary wall would eliminate the need for a rear heatshield. 

Btw you have owned this stove 19yrs and only now you want it to be code compliment?


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## Jeanie Cannon (Jan 7, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Ideally, building a second wall behind the stove would be best. It can even be a piece of sheet metal as long as it has 1" space/gap between it self and the existing wall. This secondary wall would eliminate the need for a rear heatshield.
> 
> Btw you have owned this stove 19yrs and only now you want it to be code compliment?


Well, it is only 1/2 inch off compliance, but for resale,  we decided it must be exactly compliant. Thank you for this response, that is what my husband had decided was the most practical solution. The part for our stove is not available.


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## Jeanie Cannon (Jan 7, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Got a part number?
> https://www.plumbersstock.com/vermont-castings.html


The part for our stove is not listed on any site we have tried.


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## Rahm (Jan 7, 2018)

Hi everyone. I have an Encore 2040. I just dropped a few splits in and one of them rolled over and broke the cover plate in front of the cat chamber. This happened to me a few years ago as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Ever since it happened the first time I've tried to be really careful when putting wood in and I don't think I loaded it carelessly this time. The split really didn't hit the cover very hard. 

I'll be getting a replacement as soon as I can. Does anyone know if I can continue to run the stove without the cover until I get the replacement?

Thanks.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 8, 2018)

Jeanie Cannon said:


> The part for our stove is not listed on any site we have tried.


Bummer. Your local dealer can't get one through VC directly?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 8, 2018)

Rahm said:


> Hi everyone. I have an Encore 2040. I just dropped a few splits in and one of them rolled over and broke the cover plate in front of the cat chamber. This happened to me a few years ago as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Ever since it happened the first time I've tried to be really careful when putting wood in and I don't think I loaded it carelessly this time. The split really didn't hit the cover very hard.
> 
> I'll be getting a replacement as soon as I can. Does anyone know if I can continue to run the stove without the cover until I get the replacement?
> 
> Thanks.


Not familiar with your model. My 2250 has a cast fireback. I'm inclined to say hold off burning until you get your replacement but like I said I'm not familiar with your model. Try reaching out to @defiant3


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## redhat (Jan 8, 2018)

Rahm said:


> Hi everyone. I have an Encore 2040. I just dropped a few splits in and one of them rolled over and broke the cover plate in front of the cat chamber. This happened to me a few years ago as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Ever since it happened the first time I've tried to be really careful when putting wood in and I don't think I loaded it carelessly this time. The split really didn't hit the cover very hard.
> 
> I'll be getting a replacement as soon as I can. Does anyone know if I can continue to run the stove without the cover until I get the replacement?
> 
> Thanks.



The refractory access covers on the early 2040's were somewhat susceptible to breaking. VC redesigned this part to make it more resilient,  perhaps you had two covers that were of the earlier design?

I'm on my 3rd year with my 2040 and have had no issues with the access cover whatsoever,  but I'm pretty sure my stove has the redesigned cover based on it's build date.


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## Rahm (Jan 8, 2018)

Not sure how I would know if the access covers I've had were of the old design or not. I ordered a new one on Ebay. It will be here on Friday. I hope it holds up better than the last two.

The broken one is cracked right down the middle and it holds together well enough when I put it back in it's place. I'm running the stove now and everything seems to be fine. Just making sure that I don't lean any splits against it and don't load it very high so that no splits fall on it while burning.


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## defiant3 (Jan 9, 2018)

Are you sure it's the cover that's damaged and not the refractory?  Either way it should be warrantied.  I don't think it'll hurt the stone at all to run it that way, but there's nothing to hold that inner cover, so it might just be a big pain in the neck. This is an issue with the Encores that the Defiants don't seem to have so much strangely. Hope V.C. fixes it because the 2 in 1 seems to be an improvement over the older Encores!


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## Rahm (Jan 9, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> Are you sure it's the cover that's damaged and not the refractory?  Either way it should be warrantied.  I don't think it'll hurt the stone at all to run it that way, but there's nothing to hold that inner cover, so it might just be a big pain in the neck. This is an issue with the Encores that the Defiants don't seem to have so much strangely. Hope V.C. fixes it because the 2 in 1 seems to be an improvement over the older Encores!



It's definitely the cover. It's cracked right in half. I can prop it back in place and it stays there with a big crack down the middle. I'll take a picture when the load of wood I put in this morning burns down.


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## Rahm (Jan 9, 2018)

Rahm said:


> It's definitely the cover. It's cracked right in half. I can prop it back in place and it stays there with a big crack down the middle. I'll take a picture when the load of wood I put in this morning burns down.



Here's a picture of the broken access cover:


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## Dobish (Jan 9, 2018)

they should definitely warranty that!


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## Diabel (Jan 9, 2018)

I personally would not use the stove this way!
You will end up damaging everything that sits behind that broken panel


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## Rahm (Jan 9, 2018)

Dobish said:


> they should definitely warranty that!



I bought my stove second hand so I'm not sure who I would talk to about a warranty. This is my 4th winter with the stove. The same part cracked in the same way during the 1st winter. I ordered a new one and for 3 years it was fine. Now it's happened again. I've reached out to the local VC dealer but they're not interested in helping me because I didn't buy the stove from them. The new access cover was only $86 so I just bought it instead of trying to figure out the warranty.


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## Dobish (Jan 9, 2018)

Rahm said:


> I bought my stove second hand so I'm not sure who I would talk to about a warranty. This is my 4th winter with the stove. The same part cracked in the same way during the 1st winter. I ordered a new one and for 3 years it was fine. Now it's happened again. I've reached out to the local VC dealer but they're not interested in helping me because I didn't buy the stove from them. The new access cover was only $86 so I just bought it instead of trying to figure out the warranty.


ahhh, that makes sense. I think the best bet is just order a new one then!


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## Diabel (Jan 9, 2018)

For 86.00 I would buy three of these just to protect the inner guts of the stove


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## Reckless (Jan 10, 2018)

Does that stove have a cat as well?? I couldn't imagine having to replace $300 in parts every 3-4 years 


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## Diabel (Jan 10, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Does that stove have a cat as well?? I couldn't imagine having to replace $300 in parts every 3-4 years
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Yes it is a cat stove. Its cat is only 1" thick. Unlike the older models 2" thick. It is hard to believe it can produce the same amount of heat or consume the same amount of smoke with 50% less cat surface.

VC cats are small to begin with.


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## Reckless (Jan 10, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Yes it is a cat stove. Its cat is only 1" thick. Unlike the older models 2" thick. It is hard to believe it can produce the same amount of heat or consume the same amount of smoke with 50% less cat surface.
> 
> VC cats are small to begin with.



Do the cats in these stoves suffer the same abuse that the older stoves throw at them?


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## Diabel (Jan 10, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Do the cats in these stoves suffer the same abuse that the older stoves throw at them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I would think so. Pretty much the same design.

My cat is going through its third year (24/7 burning with some vaca time) and it looks and operates great. The refractory looks awesome as well!

Knock on wood......I am very happy with the stove!

After the complete rebuild (less griddle gasket issue a month ago) and with "your" secondary air mod I have zero complaints. Full load of seasoned wood every 8-10 hrs....repeat and then repeat....


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## Woodwringer (Jan 14, 2018)

Hi everyone, 

I'm relatively new to this forum, but I have been using my VC Defiant Encore 0028 since I bought it new in 1987.  I haven't used it much in recent years since I installed a high efficiency heat pump, but the recent cold weather got me using it again.  It was on its second catalyst and I figured it was time for a new one, so I got one from Condor and also got a Watchman.  Installed both, fired it up, and the catalyst took off, getting up to 1550 in no time.  I guess I had been living in ignorant bliss before.  I had to open the bypass to prevent it from overheating.  When I started looking around and found this thread. I got a lot of ideas about what might be wrong.  I checked gaskets, tightened bolts, and worked on changing  the secondary air inlet.  I couldn't adjust the bimetal thermostat position because of corrosion of the bolt and nut, so I made a longer wire linkage that helped.  I still couldn't keep it under 1600 with a full load of dry oak, so I decided to put the 15 year old cat back in it.  Lo and behold, it still seems to be working.  It can still get up to 1600 with the primary closed and no visible flames in the firebox.  I'm guessing that at the least, I will need to replace all my gaskets, including the wire mesh gasket for the griddle.  I did find that if I sealed the secondary with aluminum foil tape I could keep it under 1550, but I worry about ending up with creosote accumulating in my flue.  Any suggestions?  I do have an Auber AT100 on order.  That's another reason that I wish I had seen this thread first.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm relatively new to this forum, but I have been using my VC Defiant Encore 0028 since I bought it new in 1987.  I haven't used it much in recent years since I installed a high efficiency heat pump, but the recent cold weather got me using it again.  It was on its second catalyst and I figured it was time for a new one, so I got one from Condor and also got a Watchman.  Installed both, fired it up, and the catalyst took off, getting up to 1550 in no time.  I guess I had been living in ignorant bliss before.  I had to open the bypass to prevent it from overheating.  When I started looking around and found this thread. I got a lot of ideas about what might be wrong.  I checked gaskets, tightened bolts, and worked on changing  the secondary air inlet.  I couldn't adjust the bimetal thermostat position because of corrosion of the bolt and nut, so I made a longer wire linkage that helped.  I still couldn't keep it under 1600 with a full load of dry oak, so I decided to put the 15 year old cat back in it.  Lo and behold, it still seems to be working.  It can still get up to 1600 with the primary closed and no visible flames in the firebox.  I'm guessing that at the least, I will need to replace all my gaskets, including the wire mesh gasket for the griddle.  I did find that if I sealed the secondary with aluminum foil tape I could keep it under 1550, but I worry about ending up with creosote accumulating in my flue.  Any suggestions?  I do have an Auber AT100 on order.  That's another reason that I wish I had seen this thread first.


How tall is your chimney?  Can you give us a run down of how you run your stove?


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## Woodwringer (Jan 14, 2018)

I have an 8" (nominal) square flue that is almost centered in my house.  From the thimble to the top is about 15 feet.  The thimble is about 42 inches above the stove top, and I have an 8 inch connector.  I use 2 year old red and white oak mostly.  Last piece I checked was under 14% on a fresh split.  I If there are good coals, I'll rake them to the front, add about 4 or 5 pieces of wood depending on size.  When the stove top gets to 450-500 I close the bypass damper and when the cat sensor gets to about 900 I'll close the primary air supply about 2/3.  If I close it all the way I get backpuffing.  After a couple of hours when most of the volatiles have burned off, I can close it completely.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> I have an 8" (nominal) square flue that is almost centered in my house.  From the thimble to the top is about 15 feet.  The thimble is about 42 inches above the stove top, and I have an 8 inch connector.  I use 2 year old red and white oak mostly.  Last piece I checked was under 14% on a fresh split.  I If there are good coals, I'll rake them to the front, add about 4 or 5 pieces of wood depending on size.  When the stove top gets to 450-500 I close the bypass damper and when the cat sensor gets to about 900 I'll close the primary air supply about 2/3.  If I close it all the way I get backpuffing.  After a couple of hours when most of the volatiles have burned off, I can close it completely.


When the stove is cold what is the secondary air control timed at. Where the wire connects to the coil is your hand. Is it 1:30, 2:00, 2:30?  Does the secondary flapper have the stopper pin in the lower left corner?


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## ratsrepus (Jan 14, 2018)

Randy, Im right up the road from you in Howell. I wish I would have seen this thread. My dutchwest refractory baffle broke in about 8 pieces. I called heat and sweep in Okemos and they said  that it would be like pulling wisdom teeth to find or even replace it. The stove was 12 years old and it never did work all that well and ate wood. To the scrap yard it went.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2018)

Howey neighbor. I have some friends who live in Howell. That's a bummer on you refractory.  Did you try any websites for it?  Plumberstock.com.


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## ratsrepus (Jan 14, 2018)

I didnt make a big effort to get it fixed. I needed an excuse to get a Blaze king which I did. The difference was night and day. Im still in awe of the heat out put and saved wood usage of the BK. Im glad the Douche west blew up.


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## Woodwringer (Jan 14, 2018)

The coil is at about 1:30, but I made a longer wire link so there is about a 1/4 inch gap between the bottom of the flap and the bottom of the secondary opening when the stove is cold.  I did not remove the pin.  It seemed like it wouldn't do much because the opening is closed off when the stove gets hot.  I did add a manually operated flap damper that I can use to close off the entire opening between the cast iron and metal cover of the secondary.


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## Woodwringer (Jan 14, 2018)

Here's a picture of the added damper


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> The coil is at about 1:30, but I made a longer wire link so there is about a 1/4 inch gap between the bottom of the flap and the bottom of the secondary opening when the stove is cold.  I did not remove the pin.  It seemed like it wouldn't do much because the opening is closed off when the stove gets hot.  I did add a manually operated flap damper that I can use to close off the entire opening between the cast iron and metal cover of the secondary.


The pin on my encore kept the flapper from closing all the way so I removed it.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2018)

ratsrepus said:


> I didnt make a big effort to get it fixed. I needed an excuse to get a Blaze king which I did. The difference was night and day. Im still in awe of the heat out put and saved wood usage of the BK. Im glad the Douche west blew up.


Which stove shop did you buy your BK from?


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## Reckless (Jan 14, 2018)

@Woodwringer move the mag therm to the single wall stove pipe and try closing the bypass based on that instead (3-400). Sounds like your letting the stove get too hot before you shut down possibly??


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## ratsrepus (Jan 14, 2018)

in grand ledge, place called Mc Dowells.  called another dealer in Davidson, he was higher in price and had to order the stove. Mcdowells had it in stock.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 15, 2018)

ratsrepus said:


> in grand ledge, place called Mc Dowells.  called another dealer in Davidson, he was higher in price and had to order the stove. Mcdowells had it in stock.


That's not to far away. There is a shop in Chelsea to but they are dropping the BK line.


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## Woodwringer (Jan 15, 2018)

Reckless, I don't think so.  I have a probe thermometer in the flue connector about 2 feet above the fireplace.  I also have an infrared thermometer that I have used to check the surface and probe thermometers.  This morning I closed the bypass damper when the stove top was 400 and the flue temp was 350, closed the primary about half way when the catalyst got above 600, closed it almost all the way when the catalyst got to 1000, and it still eventually climbed to over 1600 before leveling off around 1500 for a couple of hours.  I think I'll replace the loading door, cleanout door and top lid gaskets and see what that does.  I haven't ever replaced the bypass damper gasket and it fails the dollar bill test, but my thinking is that any leakage there would result in less air to the combustor.   The 5/16 gasket is really stretchy.  Should I just lay it in at its natural length, without trying to stretch or compress it?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 15, 2018)

The damper should be adjustable. Jam nut in middle of damper plate. This shouldn't lead to cat overtemp though. Just smoke up the chimney. What is your stove top temp when the cat is up around 1500-1600?  I'm wondering if you are chopping the primary to much at once and loosing the flame in the box. Does your secondary shutter have a pin in the lower left corner?


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## Woodwringer (Jan 15, 2018)

Stove top is 550 or so when the cat is at 1600. I don't think the 0028 has an adjustment on the bypass damper plate. The shutter does have a pin. It's placement allows the shutter to close completely.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Stove top is 550 or so when the cat is at 1600. I don't think the 0028 has an adjustment on the bypass damper plate. The shutter does have a pin. It's placement allows the shutter to close completely.



I am pretty sure the 0028 has the baypass adjustment bolt. 

1600 is pretty common for the cat but with 550 stove top.....tells me some leaky gaskets. Do not forget the stovetop thermos (magnetic) can be grossly inaccurate.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Stove top is 550 or so when the cat is at 1600. I don't think the 0028 has an adjustment on the bypass damper plate. The shutter does have a pin. It's placement allows the shutter to close completely.


If you open your griddle top and look at the front of your damper plate there should be a jam nut and bolt. How full are you filling the stove on reloads and what size splits are you using?


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## Woodwringer (Jan 17, 2018)

Unlike the 2550, there is no damper adjustment nut on the 0028.  I'm using 4 or 5 splits, depending on size. One armful, about 20 pounds.  If they were round, the average diameter would be 3 1/2 inches.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 17, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Unlike the 2550, there is no damper adjustment nut on the 0028.  I'm using 4 or 5 splits, depending on size. One armful, about 20 pounds.  If they were round, the average diameter would be 3 1/2 inches.


Try using bigger splits if you have any. That sucks you can't adjust your damper tension.


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## Diabel (Jan 17, 2018)

I will go see my 0028 (retired) and see if there is a adj bolt. I am sure there is. It is in the basement/storage.


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## Diabel (Jan 17, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I will go see my 0028 (retired) and see if there is a adj bolt. I am sure there is. It is in the basement/storage.



I just looked at the 0028. Indeed looking from the firebox, you cannot adjust the bypass. You need to remove the oval adapter and adjust the nut from there.


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## Woodwringer (Jan 18, 2018)

There is no adjustment on the 0028.  The torsion bar is captured on the back of the damper plate between two raised lugs by a metal strap attached with bolts, but nothing about the connection is adjustable.  I guess the torsion bar flexes enough to hold the damper tight, at least in theory.  There are some straps that hold the torsion bar and the ends of the damper plate in place, and I think they may have bent out some.  There's a fix for them noted in the repair manual.  I did try using larger splits, and it does help.  I wish I had more of them dry enough.  Now if it will just warm enough, I should have time to replace the gaskets.  We got 12 inches of snow here yesterday.  That's the third largest snow in my lifetime, and a very unusual event in central NC.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> There is no adjustment on the 0028.  The torsion bar is captured on the back of the damper plate between two raised lugs by a metal strap attached with bolts, but nothing about the connection is adjustable.  I guess the torsion bar flexes enough to hold the damper tight, at least in theory.  There are some straps that hold the torsion bar and the ends of the damper plate in place, and I think they may have bent out some.  There's a fix for them noted in the repair manual.  I did try using larger splits, and it does help.  I wish I had more of them dry enough.  Now if it will just warm enough, I should have time to replace the gaskets.  We got 12 inches of snow here yesterday.  That's the third largest snow in my lifetime, and a very unusual event in central NC.


Do you leave a layer of ash in the stove or do you sift it through the grate every reload?  I'm in the same boat as you with the smaller splits. My large to small split ratio is not in my favor at the moment.


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2018)

I'm empty my ash pan twice a season, when I open it I have a 7" pile on the ground [emoji23][emoji23] what's an EPA hole?


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## Woodwringer (Jan 21, 2018)

Hmmm - sounds like more ashes and larger splits will help my overheating problems.  Maybe I can even put a full load of wood in the stove.


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Hmmm - sounds like more ashes and larger splits will help my overheating problems.  Maybe I can even put a full load of wood in the stove.



I still never load my stove to the top. 3/4 max for me.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Hmmm - sounds like more ashes and larger splits will help my overheating problems.  Maybe I can even put a full load of wood in the stove.


Leaving ash in the stove definitely helps


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Reckless said:


> I'm empty my ash pan twice a season, when I open it I have a 7" pile on the ground [emoji23][emoji23] what's an EPA hole?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When the ash starts spilling out the doors I will empty the pan and sift it down a couple inches. Makes a huge mess on the hearth when opening the ash door. I don't have a kid for the ash pan either so it's a slow walk to get outside.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Hmmm - sounds like more ashes and larger splits will help my overheating problems.  Maybe I can even put a full load of wood in the stove.


I fill my stove right up to the griddle. I even push the load to one side so I can slip some shorties in there vertically. I mix my load to with large splits and using smaller ones to fill in the gaps.


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## Diabel (Jan 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I fill my stove right up to the griddle. I even push the load to one side so I can slip some shorties in there vertically. I mix my load to with large splits and using smaller ones to fill in the gaps.



I burn 24/7 and in shoulder season I emptied the ash once (Oct-Dec) burning 100% hemlock.

I was away over the holidays. Started burning on Jan 8th. burning mainly ash and maple, and emptied the ashes once. I always leave the lots of ash in the stove.

Yesterday was +7*C
I let the stove go out (first time since Jan 8th). This morning checkout the cat and the refractory box. All looks in great shape!!


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I fill my stove right up to the griddle. I even push the load to one side so I can slip some shorties in there vertically. I mix my load to with large splits and using smaller ones to fill in the gaps.



I don't think I'll ever trust mine enough.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Reckless said:


> I don't think I'll ever trust mine enough.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And you call yourself reckless


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I burn 24/7 and in shoulder season I emptied the ash once (Oct-Dec) burning 100% hemlock.
> 
> I was away over the holidays. Started burning on Jan 8th. burning mainly ash and maple, and emptied the ashes once. I always leave the lots of ash in the stove.
> 
> ...


For the most part I burn 24/7 as well. Temps got up to 40's today so I let the stove go cold to  do some cleaning and gasket work. Put regular gasket on the griddle instead of the wire mesh stuff. I really hate the tubes of Rutland gasket cement. Even after kneading it for 5 minutes or so it came out with inconsistencies marking it difficult to get a uniform bead.


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## Diabel (Jan 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> For the most part I burn 24/7 as well. Temps got up to 40's today so I let the stove go cold to  do some cleaning and gasket work. Put regular gasket on the griddle instead of the wire mesh stuff. I really hate the tubes of Rutland gasket cement. Even after kneading it for 5 minutes or so it came out with inconsistencies marking it difficult to get a uniform bead.


The graphite gasket is much more durable (I find) than the regular white one.

Yes, lots of water in the cement tube if you don't massage it for a long time...........


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Diabel said:


> The graphite gasket is much more durable (I find) than the regular white one.
> 
> Yes, lots of water in the cement tube if you don't massage it for a long time...........


It's the gray graphite rope. Just not the mesh stuff.


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## Diabel (Jan 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It's the gray graphite rope. Just not the mesh stuff.


For me the regular graphic seems to work best.
The wire mesh sucks, I think (unless there is a veriaty in terms of thickness to it, that I don't know of!?)


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2018)

Diabel said:


> For me the regular graphic seems to work best.
> The wire mesh sucks, I think (unless there is a veriaty in terms of thickness to it, that I don't know of!?)


If graphite seals better then I don't have a problem replacing it every season or two.


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## Diabel (Jan 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If graphite seals better then I don't have a problem replacing it every season or two.


 Same here.


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## Reckless (Jan 22, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> And you call yourself reckless



5 month old at home so I believe those days are over now.... New name semi reckless


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2018)

I can relate. 18 month at home and currently half way to having another.


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## Dano25 (Feb 1, 2018)

Does anyone have the small steel dutchwest 244?


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## begreen (Feb 1, 2018)

Dano25 said:


> Does anyone have the small steel dutchwest 244?



That is a VC stove in label only. It's really a Century S244. Still sold today.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 2, 2018)

Hi all.  RandyBoBandy suggested jumping over here from the thread I started, with questions about catalytic in a Defiant Encore 2140.  

Here's the thread, but the questions have kinda changed as it went along.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...k-with-just-a-small-fire.167153/#post-2242012.

So I'd like to pick up with the current questions I have.

The stove came to me from a friend who bought it in 1992 and only used it 5 years or so before going to central heat.  So he hadnt got to replacing the catalytic or doing any re-gasketing, which is where my questions come to.  

1.  I dont want to get too extensive with gasketing in the middle of winter.  I do have evidence that there is leaking and overfiring from the leaks.  I would think doors, griddle, ash pan should be not too much and should help with leaks.  I would wait for flue collar and damper etc at this point

I see a kit on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IN4OSPS/?tag=hearthamazon-20
https://www.amazon.com/3419-Encore-...2&keywords=vermont+castings+encore+gasket+kit
It doesnt say what models it works for.  Can I expect it works for a 2140?  And the instructions would be enough for a handy guy?  I havent seen any YouTube videos specifically for Encores.

2.  I can see the cat DOES work, it gets red when it's really hot, and the smoke goes pretty clean after it's been running in cat mode for a bit.  But I do want to get a catalytic thermometer so I know better about temps.  The stovetop thermometers I have are all over the place in differing from each other [and from their own selves at times!!]  and from a borrowed IR thermometer from a friend.  So the question is this - the stove came with a Condar flue gas thermometer, a probe into the flue pipe.  I look at that and look at pictures of a catalytic thermometer




and they look identical except for the writing on the dial.  There's nothing inside the stem that would be different, right?  Just a metal rod that conducts heat up to the bimetal coil?  Any reason I cant just use the "Flue Gas" probe that I have?  I dont have a smart phone to take a photo of mine.

Thanks for any help.

SonOfEru


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## SonOfEru (Feb 2, 2018)

Oops, forgot one more question.

The primary air control handle seems to bottom out at straight down, 6 o'clock.  That is, it does swing from 8 o'clock back to 4 o'clock but when I look at the shutter down below, it is closed completely when the handle is straight down.

That cant be right. What's with that?


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## Durantefarm (Feb 2, 2018)

webfish said:


> New thread.  Here is old one. . https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2016-2017-vc-owners-thread.156768/
> 
> 
> Please continue here.


hello my wife and I boutght a VC Montpelier in January and we are learning so much from the forum ! so I learned about buying a moisture meter which I did and that is helping with the wood we bought that's not all the way down to 20%. my question is that once my wood is completely seasoned (next winter ) will I get better/hotter burns with less wood ? I love the insert but I feel the heat isn't putting out heat . my buddy has  LOPI stove and its almost like he can throw higher moisture wood in his stove and it burns hotter. any info I can get from VC owners would be great . thank you so much.


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## Dobish (Feb 2, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Hi all.  RandyBoBandy suggested jumping over here from the thread I started, with questions about catalytic in a Defiant Encore 2140.
> 
> Here's the thread, but the questions have kinda changed as it went along.
> 
> ...



the probe itself might have a different rating, and a lot of the cat thermometers are bent, so you can see them from the top. I might recommend the Auber AT100, which gives you a visual display and faster reporting.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 2, 2018)

Durantefarm said:


> hello my wife and I boutght a VC Montpelier in January and we are learning so much from the forum ! so I learned about buying a moisture meter which I did and that is helping with the wood we bought that's not all the way down to 20%. my question is that once my wood is completely seasoned (next winter ) will I get better/hotter burns with less wood ? I love the insert but I feel the heat isn't putting out heat . my buddy has  LOPI stove and its almost like he can throw higher moisture wood in his stove and it burns hotter. any info I can get from VC owners would be great . thank you so much.



Absolutely you will get hotter burns.  When I went to seasoning mine a second year they are lighter, quicker to flame, hotter.  They dont have that work to do of driving off the remaining moisture.  I would be stunned if your LOPI friend actually gets hotter burns with wetter wood.  The physics would be the opposite


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## Durantefarm (Feb 2, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Absolutely you will get hotter burns.  When I went to seasoning mine a second year they are lighter, quicker to flame, hotter.  They dont have that work to do of driving off the remaining moisture.  I would be stunned if your LOPI friend actually gets hotter burns with wetter wood.  The physics would be the opposite


it just might be that his LOPI is much bigger than mine so it throws more heat out. he uses ash just like me and he just cuts and uses it without looking at moisture . where if my wood is above 23% the woods burns like chit . I have been placing logs in front of glass to warm up and I find the wood burns better. im from ohio and not a real fan of winter but I can honestly say I cant wait till next winter so I can see how my wood burns with a year of season time. im started cutting my own wood now for next year and years to come .


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## Woodwringer (Feb 2, 2018)

The 3419 gasket kit has all the gasket you need for the stove top, doors, ash door, and more.  The replacement is pretty straightforward.  You just need to make sure that you remove all of the old gasket cement before installing the new gasket.  I did it recently, and found that an air needle scaler does a fantastic and quick job of removing the old cement without damaging the castings.  Harbor Freight has them for about $20 or so.  A prior post about rebuilding an Encore contained a link to the 0028/2140 repair manual, which has all the information you need to replace the gaskets or even do a complete rebuild.  Here's the link:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/encore-2550-rebuild-start-to-finish.112149/page-8#post-1536832


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## SonOfEru (Feb 3, 2018)

Let me ask a little more about my question of a catalytic thermometer.  I figure I better ask a basic question first.  How long of a probe should I have?  I dont even know how deep it needs to go into the refractory chamber.  I have a heat shield so that's another inch and 1/4, so I would need to drill through the shield and then into the stove itself.  

I see them at Condar in 4 inch, 6 inch, and 6.5 inch.  

But then I wonder about having any of it sticking out free in the air.  It would be losing at least a little of its heat into the air before it's conducted all the way out to the bimetal spring so it might read a bit lower than true temp.  Or is that not a big deal?  I have played with a mirror, which I think would do fine to make it so I could see the dial without contorting.  So I wouldnt mind cutting a 2 inch hole in the shield to allow me to mount the probe flush  and view it through the cutout.

And does it need to extend all the way into the chamber so it touches the other side?  Or is that also not a big deal as long as it is good and covered with flame?

Thanks for any tips [I have let go of the idea of a remote digital display with a cable]


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## SonOfEru (Feb 4, 2018)

I'm curious that even though the Encore provides a port in back for a probe, there is nothing about a probe in the manuals.  Owners and Service manuals dont even have the word "thermometer"


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## SonOfEru (Feb 4, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> [I have let go of the idea of a remote digital display with a cable]



Well I'm back to considering, and the Auber AT100 is what folks keep talking about.  But I am curious that the K probe recommended is really short - looks like it would stick into the refractory chamber only an inch or so.  How thick is the refractory itself, anyway. 

It must be ok, so many recommendations but I am still curious.  And it touches on my question above about how much needs to be stuck into the flame




And I know I am dithering and indecisive on this one, I just never did a cat probe of any kind.


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## Diabel (Feb 4, 2018)

That is not it.
The only one that is 2000*F rated is the 6". That is the one you have to buy.


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## DMoloney (Feb 4, 2018)

"I just never did a cat probe of any kind." Ha, me either...prolly take two hands though...  

I just ordered the AT-100 and the WRNK-191, 6" cat probe. The probe is available with two different connectors, spade and mini.   The tech said the AT-100 comes with a special green connector that you must use with this probe...told me to order the one with the "spade" connector, then leave them a note when checking out, and that they would make the switcharoo for me.

Question: Were you having trouble removing/inspecting the old combustor? I can't recall from the other thread if you were able to get to it or not.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 4, 2018)

Diabel said:


> That is not it.
> The only one that is 2000*F rated is the 6". That is the one you have to buy.



Aha - I went to the Auber site and the one I showed is just the first of a number of K types, I just saw "K" and clicked on it.  That one is only good for 780 degrees.

So with all the variants of K type, is the WRNK-191 the one to get?  Looks like it is the only one to go to 2000.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 4, 2018)

DMoloney said:


> Question: Were you having trouble removing/inspecting the old combustor? I can't recall from the other thread if you were able to get to it or not.



I got the stove used.  Bought in 1992, used 5 years then the owner got central heat.  So the cat plainly works but I'm not sure how good condition it is.  The cover panel screws are rusted on really good.  I know how to drill and tap if I have to break them, but I balked at getting that far into things in the middle of winter.  

I sure wish VC had built in a thermometer, or a glass window in back so you could see the cat action.


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## Diabel (Feb 4, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Aha - I went to the Auber site and the one I showed is just the first of a number of K types, I just saw "K" and clicked on it.  That one is only good for 780 degrees.
> 
> So with all the variants of K type, is the WRNK-191 the one to get?  Looks like it is the only one to go to 2000.



Yes. The perfect fit would be the 4", but since Auber does not have one with 2000*F, then the 6" was a way to go. Works fine.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 4, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Yes. The perfect fit would be the 4", but since Auber does not have one with 2000*F, then the 6" was a way to go. Works fine.



So if I were to mount it flush it would go in 4"?  I have the heatshield so 6" is going to stick out a couple inches and the shield is only 1 1/4 away from the stove body [not the access panel, the body of the stove].  I will have to drill the shield and put it through that and into the stove port.  And so there will still be 3/4 inch or so free beyond the shield

Can I ask again - if 2" of the probe is not in the combustor flame, does the heat dissipate before being measured?  1/3 of the length is going to be outside.

And what is the mechanism of the measuring?  It's not a bimetal spring, I can see that.


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## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

DMoloney said:


> "I just never did a cat probe of any kind." Ha, me either...prolly take two hands though...
> 
> I just ordered the AT-100 and the WRNK-191, 6" cat probe. The probe is available with two different connectors, spade and mini.   The tech said the AT-100 comes with a special green connector that you must use with this probe...told me to order the one with the "spade" connector, then leave them a note when checking out, and that they would make the switcharoo for me.
> 
> Question: Were you having trouble removing/inspecting the old combustor? I can't recall from the other thread if you were able to get to it or not.


 This would have been a good idea, i wish i thought of it.  As others have said,  i went at100 and the 2000f k @6". I just disassembled the yellow plug and wired it to the green.  I did have to recalibrate the probe until I was within a degree or two.  I found that calibrating for Celsius then switching to Fahrenheit doesn't work well.


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## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> So if I were to mount it flush it would go in 4"?  I have the heatshield so 6" is going to stick out a couple inches and the shield is only 1 1/4 away from the stove body [not the access panel, the body of the stove].  I will have to drill the shield and put it through that and into the stove port.  And so there will still be 3/4 inch or so free beyond the shield
> 
> Can I ask again - if 2" of the probe is not in the combustor flame, does the heat dissipate before being measured?  1/3 of the length is going to be outside.
> 
> And what is the mechanism of the measuring?  It's not a bimetal spring, I can see that.


The probe that came with my stove is a 6" as well.  It stuck out a little bit,  but it also isn't nearly as sensitive.  I don't think the extra makes a difference.


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## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> So if I were to mount it flush it would go in 4"?  I have the heatshield so 6" is going to stick out a couple inches and the shield is only 1 1/4 away from the stove body [not the access panel, the body of the stove].  I will have to drill the shield and put it through that and into the stove port.  And so there will still be 3/4 inch or so free beyond the shield
> 
> Can I ask again - if 2" of the probe is not in the combustor flame, does the heat dissipate before being measured?  1/3 of the length is going to be outside.
> 
> And what is the mechanism of the measuring?  It's not a bimetal spring, I can see that.


 The one that came with my stove is bi metal


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## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Dobish said:


> I did have to recalibrate the probe until I was within a degree or two.



How do you calibrate it?  Do you have something to calibrate it to?  All I have are 2 stovetop thermometers and one IR.  They are wildly different from each other.

I was even mystified to find yesterday that the IR reads different depending on its orientation.  I had been consistently aiming it at one spot on the griddle, from standing at the side of the stove.  Yesterday I happened to point it at the same spot but from the front, after I had shot it from the side a short time before.  It read 570 from the front when it had just said 660 from the side.  Amazed, I did it repeatedly and it was off by almost 100 consistently - front, then side, then front, then side, there was no mistaking it - it read 90 to 100 different consistently.

So I have been hoping the claims of "accurate readings" at the website are real.

And how DO you calibrate?


----------



## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Dobish said:


> It stuck out a little bit, but it also isn't nearly as sensitive.



Hi, sorry if I'm being dense.  Not as sensitive as what?  The AT100?

Does anyone know how the AT100 determines temp?  I understand the idea of bimetal coils but what is inside the AT100 probe and how does it work?


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## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Dobish said:


> The one that came with my stove is bi metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dobish - what is the brand of that thermometer, with the bent stem [so I could read it without a mirror]?


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## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Question on something else?  What can I use to clean up the enamel surface of my stove.  It's the rich dark brown





I put a teakettle on the griddle for humidity in the house [like I did for years with the old stove], and after a few days there is a thin pale deposit showing on the enamel nextd to where the kettle sits, that I figure has to be from microsopic droplets out of the teakettle, landing and instantly evaporating, leaving the minerals in  the water to bake on [we have our own well and it is hard water].

The manual says to let it go cold [doh!] and "Use only a kitchen appliance cleaner or polish recommended for enamel surfaces."

Does anyone have a specific product recommendation?


----------



## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Dobish - what is the brand of that thermometer, with the bent stem [so I could read it without a mirror]?


it is a vermont castings one that came with my stove. part number is on it. It came with my Encore 2040


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## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Hi, sorry if I'm being dense.  Not as sensitive as what?  The AT100?
> 
> Does anyone know how the AT100 determines temp?  I understand the idea of bimetal coils but what is inside the AT100 probe and how does it work?


the bent probe is not as sensitive as the AT100. The AT100 uses a k-type thermocouple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple)


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## Dobish (Feb 5, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> How do you calibrate it?  Do you have something to calibrate it to?  All I have are 2 stovetop thermometers and one IR.  They are wildly different from each other.
> 
> I was even mystified to find yesterday that the IR reads different depending on its orientation.  I had been consistently aiming it at one spot on the griddle, from standing at the side of the stove.  Yesterday I happened to point it at the same spot but from the front, after I had shot it from the side a short time before.  It read 570 from the front when it had just said 660 from the side.  Amazed, I did it repeatedly and it was off by almost 100 consistently - front, then side, then front, then side, there was no mistaking it - it read 90 to 100 different consistently.
> 
> ...



the AT100 has a means of adjusting the temperature to meet calibration. I used a bowl of ice water, and a bowl of boiling water, as I know those temps are constant.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Dobish said:


> I used a bowl of ice water, and a bowl of boiling water,



Thats what I was after.  Simple.  Should thought of it.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 5, 2018)

Dobish said:


> The AT100 uses a k-type thermocouple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple)



Aaaaahh - got it.  I had forgot what a thermocouple is.  And I thought that K type was just some kind of Auber designation.

The link cleared up everything.  Thanks!

So I feel good that the accuracy will be good.  Certainly way more accurate than I need, I would be happy with confidence that I was within 10 or 20 degrees


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## Dobish (Feb 6, 2018)

So I think its time I check my chimney again, The last 2 days, I have had a ton of issues with smoke coming into the house, and getting good draft is hard. We have had a few windy days, and the temps have been all over the place, but it is bizarre. Last night, everything was cranking along fine, cat temp at 1300, stove top at 450, flue at 375, and I went to reload, only to have a face full of smoke.  I tapped on the flue pipe, and heard the chunks falling.

This morning on reload, it was all smoke, pouring out of places I had never seen before (like the ceiling connection/adapter). I shut down the stove, pulled out the wood before it continued to smolder, and am going to go home and give the chimney a sweep this afternoon.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 6, 2018)

Dobish said:


> So I think its time I check my chimney again, The last 2 days, I have had a ton of issues with smoke coming into the house, and getting good draft is hard. We have had a few windy days, and the temps have been all over the place, but it is bizarre. Last night, everything was cranking along fine, cat temp at 1300, stove top at 450, flue at 375, and I went to reload, only to have a face full of smoke.  I tapped on the flue pipe, and heard the chunks falling.
> 
> This morning on reload, it was all smoke, pouring out of places I had never seen before (like the ceiling connection/adapter). I shut down the stove, pulled out the wood before it continued to smolder, and am going to go home and give the chimney a sweep this afternoon.



You did flip the damper back first, right?

I generally have very good draft but at times if the atmospheric pressure is really low [like a snowstorm is brewing], and the temp is relatively mild, it can seriously impede the draft.  Draft is caused by pressure differential, so the warm air in your stove and chimney weigh less than the cold air outside and the smoke rises.  Anything changing that will change the draft.

In the most extreme of those different states I have seen smoke in the face when I lifted the griddle quickly so there was no time for the contents of the firebox to get up some speed up through the open damper.

And yes if you have bunches of creosote piling up it will constrict the flue and there is one more factor against the draft.

But .... if your catalytic is working .... why are you getting creosote?  Is 450 / 375 maybe a little low for enough oomf into the cat?   But you said you had 1300 there, which sounds a lot like a hot cat.


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## Dobish (Feb 6, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> You did flip the damper back first, right?
> 
> I generally have very good draft but at times if the atmospheric pressure is really low [like a snowstorm is brewing], and the temp is relatively mild, it can seriously impede the draft.  Draft is caused by pressure differential, so the warm air in your stove and chimney weigh less than the cold air outside and the smoke rises.  Anything changing that will change the draft.
> 
> ...



I flipped the damper 
We have had some strange weather, and we haven't been burning 24/7, so I think that we have not been giving our chimney a good run. I had a row of wood that was suboptimal as well, and I think the combination of subpar wood, less often fires, engaging the cat or cutting the air down too soon, and poor draft due to outside temps all led to more buildup.

Outside conditions proabbly have something to do with it as well, given that we aren't used to heavy dense air around here.

On the plus side, i know my smoke detectors work


----------



## SonOfEru (Feb 6, 2018)

Dobish said:


> I flipped the damper
> We have had some strange weather, and we haven't been burning 24/7, so I think that we have not been giving our chimney a good run. I had a row of wood that was suboptimal as well, and I think the combination of subpar wood, less often fires, engaging the cat or cutting the air down too soon, and poor draft due to outside temps all led to more buildup.
> 
> Outside conditions proabbly have something to do with it as well, given that we aren't used to heavy dense air around here.
> ...



less often firing can affect too.  The chimney draws better as it warms up so if yours had cooled off it wouldnt draw as well.

But still, all those extra factors are not usually all that big a deal, that is not usually enough to make a normally functioning chimney suddenly throw smoke in your face.

A dead animal in the flue?  Dont laugh.  But you will see if it is clear when you sweep it.  I like to lower a flashlight down on a piece of clothesline and as it sort of spins around as you lower it, you get a good look at the condition.  Have fun!


----------



## Dobish (Feb 6, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> less often firing can affect too.  The chimney draws better as it warms up so if yours had cooled off it wouldnt draw as well.
> 
> But still, all those extra factors are not usually all that big a deal, that is not usually enough to make a normally functioning chimney suddenly throw smoke in your face.
> 
> A dead animal in the flue?  Dont laugh.  But you will see if it is clear when you sweep it.  I like to lower a flashlight down on a piece of clothesline and as it sort of spins around as you lower it, you get a good look at the condition.  Have fun!



I have a chimney cap, so nothing was getting in there. I normally give it a quick clean in january, just to be safe. I wouldn't be surprised if one of our visitors threw a huge wad of newspaper, or cardboard in there and it is blocking the flue. Timing seems to be about right for something like that. I'll post before and after pictures


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## SonOfEru (Feb 6, 2018)

Waiting eagerly for the answer!

And you know to tell folks to never throw anything in but wood, matches, and plain newspaper?  No colored ads etc.  They can ruin the catalytic surface


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## Dobish (Feb 6, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Waiting eagerly for the answer!
> 
> And you know to tell folks to never throw anything in but wood, matches, and plain newspaper?  No colored ads etc.  They can ruin the catalytic surface


As i suspected,  lots of stuff blocking the spark arrester.  Gave it a sweep and a clean,  and it drafts much better.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 7, 2018)

Spark arrestor?  What is that?  Encore has a spark arrestor?


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## SonOfEru (Feb 7, 2018)

Never mind -  google found it for me.  It's part of the stovepipe cap?  Keeps sparks from getting out?


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## Reckless (Feb 9, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Never mind -  google found it for me.  It's part of the stovepipe cap?  Keeps sparks from getting out?



It's this guy for real? I feel like its jharkin trolling us........ If sonoferu is real welcome to our neck of the woods and please take a breath [emoji23][emoji23] there is all sorts of info in here and years past just go to the first page and follow the links. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Feb 9, 2018)

The stove is working so much better since I cleaned it out. I pulled the telescoping pipe from the inside too, just to see if I got all the way down, and it looks like I missed about a foot


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## Diabel (Feb 9, 2018)

Did you clean the flue at the beginning of the burning season?

I got in a habit of cleaning the pipe mid December, just as I switch from burning softwood (100% hemlock) to hardwood and as i start burning 24/7
Always get the same amount of loose brown stuff, about two coffee cups worth.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 9, 2018)

Reckless said:


> It's this guy for real? I feel like its jharkin trolling us........ If sonoferu is real welcome to our neck of the woods and please take a breath [emoji23][emoji23] there is all sorts of info in here and years past just go to the first page and follow the links. Good luck



Yes I am real, and dont know who jharkin is.  Curious - what about my posts made you think I'm a troll?  I was only curious what a spark arrestor is and asked before I realized that for goodness sake I could ask google


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## Dobish (Feb 9, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Did you clean the flue at the beginning of the burning season?
> 
> I got in a habit of cleaning the pipe mid December, just as I switch from burning softwood (100% hemlock) to hardwood and as i start burning 24/7
> Always get the same amount of loose brown stuff, about two coffee cups worth.


i did, around october. We have had such a strange winter, that I have only gone through slightly less than 1.75 cord, which isn't that abnormal, but i started in october instead of november this year!  I had a lot of big black crusties on the spark arrester and on the top, with some nasty looking stuff up towards the top. I think we have been in such a rush to engage the cat before we leave in the morning, that it just hasn't been hot enough.

It looked like a lot of cardboard and lighter stuff, so I will have to keep an eye on the guests when they are over as well.


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## Reckless (Feb 9, 2018)

SonOfEru said:


> Yes I am real, and dont know who jharkin is.  Curious - what about my posts made you think I'm a troll?  I was only curious what a spark arrestor is and asked before I realized that for goodness sake I could ask google



You question EVERYTHING lol. Jharkin is the originator of this very thread back 4 years ago or so. Carry on I'm just busting chops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SonOfEru (Feb 9, 2018)

So .... now I'm getting a rep as a questioner ... actually I have learned most of what I know by asking, and the dumb questions reveal themselves pretty quick, at least mine do.  <giggle>


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## begreen (Feb 9, 2018)

Ask away, there's lots to learn. The only dumb question is the one not asked.


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## Diabel (Feb 9, 2018)

Son, reckless has helped many of us here... a good help.

Dobish, I think your wood might be a bit underseasoned .


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## Dobish (Feb 10, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Son, reckless has helped many of us here... a good help.
> 
> Dobish, I think your wood might be a bit underseasoned .


I think i had part of a pile that was under seasoned.   everything has been seasoned for over a year,  but i did find some spruce that was still pretty heavy. Back to maple, aspen, and cedar that was all less than 12%


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 13, 2018)

Holy smokes. I leave town for a week and a half and the forum comes to life. Good to see everyone is burning good and figuring out their issues. Son, what did you ever end up doing about a cat probe? 
By the way I was in Arizona and California ripping dirt bikes in 80 degree sunny weather... definitely did not suck.


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## SonOfEru (Feb 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Holy smokes. I leave town for a week and a half and the forum comes to life. Good to see everyone is burning good and figuring out their issues. Son, what did you ever end up doing about a cat probe?
> By the way I was in Arizona and California ripping dirt bikes in 80 degree sunny weather... definitely did not suck.



I bet holy smokes is an in-joke here on the forum.

I got an AT100 and set it up and SO GLAD I DID.  It's like the closest thing to an open window looking in on the cat action.


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## pki1980 (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi, have a couple of threads regarding my stove but i will try here as well. Its an intrepid II in a danica cabinet.
With only three logs in it,totaling about 2-3 kg the fire keeps roaring even though i put it in bypass mode and the temp easily gets to 300 celsius on the stove top. I also notice that there is smoke coming from the chimney even when in bypass mode, not really black smoke but quite a lot of white smoke.
I guess there must be some leak with air entering the stove? Where would you start to search? I have tested all around the door with a bill and that seems tight. there is one side of the the bypass flap that is not as tight but could that really be causing the stove to run rampant? I guess it could explain some of the smoke though.
How much fire is normal to see when in bypass mode and air lever on 50%? mine is burning a lot and heat as i said goes up a lot on the stove top.

This all got worse after i cleaned the refractory chamber and the catalytic element. Before this, one half of the refractory chamber was covered in ash and soot after a chimney sweep and that made the draft worse so it was easier to runt the stove without it getting to hot.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 14, 2018)

600*F is fine for griddle top temps. What happens when you close the primary air all the way?


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## Woodwringer (Feb 14, 2018)

K thermocouples use the resistance across a bimetal junction to measure temperature.  The actual bimetal junction is very small and is most likely to be at the tip of the probe, so the length doesn't matter that much as long as you can get 3-4 inches inside the stove.


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## Diabel (Feb 14, 2018)

After almost three season of use my K thermocouple is toast!

Spoke with Auber today and they confirmed that its behaviour is very indicative of toast! The AT100 is ok.

At about 900 it goes to EEEEE (error I suppose). I ordered a new one (19.00). I tell you running the stove on flue pipe temp and stove griddle temps and its sounds is sooooo weird. But since I know the stove so well I am doing ok. 

Trust me, running these stoves with only a stovetop thermo. is a definitive death sentence in other words, sure and premature stove failure.


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## begreen (Feb 14, 2018)

Eeeee I'm melting I'm melting.


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## Diabel (Feb 14, 2018)

begreen said:


> Eeeee I'm melting I'm melting.



Nice.....

No, if anything running too cool. But I quickly notice it since the flue temp drops to 200 at which point I know the cat stalled.


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## pki1980 (Feb 15, 2018)

I can see a small difference but still the fire is still going quite strong. There is no way can I stop it by just closing the primary.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 15, 2018)

pki1980 said:


> I can see a small difference but still the fire is still going quite strong. There is no way can I stop it by just closing the primary.


And with it in the cabinet there’s no way to get to the back of the stove?
Try leaving a couple inches of ash in the bottom of the stove. Also replace you ash pan gasket and your griddle gasket. And while you are at it, your glass gasket as well.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 15, 2018)

Diabel said:


> After almost three season of use my K thermocouple is toast!
> 
> Spoke with Auber today and they confirmed that its behaviour is very indicative of toast! The AT100 is ok.
> 
> ...


Any indication as to why it burnt up on you?  I feel like I’m on season 3 or 4 on my probe and running just fine. (Knock on wood).


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## pki1980 (Feb 15, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> And with it in the cabinet there’s no way to get to the back of the stove?
> Try leaving a couple inches of ash in the bottom of the stove. Also replace you ash pan gasket and your griddle gasket. And while you are at it, your glass gasket as well.



Thanks for the input so far,

No I dont think so, I can remove the bottom heatplate and by usint the phone almost see a little bit of the back but thats about it. I always leave quite a lot of ash before loading the stove, only emptying the ashpan itself.
Is there gasket to the ash pan on these? From what I can tell its just slided into metalframes in the stove, I dont think it would need any gasketing?
Not sure how I can replace the griddlegasket either, it seems to be mounted on the back of the upper firewall only accessible with the bypass open so I guess it would need to remove the cabinet and back of the stove to access that in an easy way.
I have replaced the gaskets on the door, it didnt change the situation at all so the leak must be somewhere else I think. I think I will try the topdoor gasket next just to be sure but it seems to be really tight.


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## Diabel (Feb 15, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Any indication as to why it burnt up on you?  I feel like I’m on season 3 or 4 on my probe and running just fine. (Knock on wood).



I let the stove go cold last night. Pulled the probe out this morning and it looks slightly bent downward and it has a golden tint to it. Who knows if they are actually good to 2000*F. I am pretty sure they are made in China.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 15, 2018)

pki1980 said:


> Thanks for the input so far,
> 
> No I dont think so, I can remove the bottom heatplate and by usint the phone almost see a little bit of the back but thats about it. I always leave quite a lot of ash before loading the stove, only emptying the ashpan itself.
> Is there gasket to the ash pan on these? From what I can tell its just slided into metalframes in the stove, I dont think it would need any gasketing?
> ...


The griddle is the top loader. That should come off easy in the open position. Replace the gasket in the groove on the actual stove top. A lot of us are fans of just using regular 5/16 graphite gasket rope for this. There should be gasket on the door of the ash pan. You stated you replaced the door gasket, but did you replace the glass gasket as well?  This is a very small gasket and turns to dust in a few years. Post some pics of your stove also of the ash pan door.


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## SculptureOfSound (Feb 15, 2018)

I would love to hear from Montpelier owners what are your likes and dislikes? Also, how long have you owned it and have you had to do any repairs or is it showing any signs of wear and tear outside of the norm?


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## Diabel (Mar 6, 2018)

Not tooooo busy lately in this thread!!


So, I just had a interesting experience. This has never happened to me before.
On a reload I needed to shift a split in the fire box with a poker. I accidentally dislodged the flame shield, exposing the cat.
Luckily, it was the first split that I was trying to shift around as I always do. I suppose I will let it burn with bypass open. 
Interestingly, it was a piece of big ash that was css seven years ago. There is almost zero smoke out of the pipe.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 6, 2018)

Yo... whats up my VC brothers... hope all is well


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## SculptureOfSound (Mar 6, 2018)

Anyone heating 1500 or so square feet in far north climate (Central Wisconsin here) with a Montpelier? Curious to hear how it fares.


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## Woodwringer (Mar 6, 2018)

Following the advice of the seasoned veterans on this thread, I almost have my Defiant Encore 0028 under control.  It still wants to run hot with more than half of a load.  Recently when I had the primary almost closed it apparently got starved for air and back puffed.  I was looking at it at the time and it looked like smoke came out of the joints between the top and sides.  Short of a complete rebuild, do you think I could pull the top off and re-cement the joints to tighten it up?


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 6, 2018)

Hi all, I posted another thread on this forum a few days ago regarding a new VC Encore I bought last month but was actually made about a year ago in February of 17'.  Problem was the access panel apparently is to small whereby it nearly falls out into the stove.  This leave near a 1/4" gap at the Top.  Is this right?  Dealer says it shouldn't affect the operation of the stove but I'm not so sure.  My take is during normal operation all smoke/gases should pass underneath the access panel not some at the top, right?  This panel is apparently the thicker version made due to breaking problems the thinner panels had previously according to the dealer.  Anyone else here have/had this problem?  Saw one review posted on a stove dealers webpage regarding a similar issue but that's it.  Maybe just my dumb luck.  It's been a year since the stove was built so maybe they fit better now.  Sorry about hijacking this thread on this but this seemed to be a better thread for VC issues.  Regards, Kevin


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## defiant3 (Mar 7, 2018)

Woodwringer that's definitely a good idea. The top seems to be the Achille's heel on Encores of that vintage.  You'll have trouble accessing the rear bolts without removing the upper fireback/damper assembly though.  My big fat fingers can never get back in there.


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## 31 bertram (Mar 7, 2018)

It's been awhile since I've posted here, I just got back home from a three year stint in the Marshall Islands, was hoping it would still be cold enough to have a fire here at home so forecast was for upper 30's along the Gulf Coast yesterday so I fired up the old VC 2550 and she's going good with no problems.  I did a complete overhaul on her a few years back and man was that an ordeal.  Still just as beautiful as the day I got her. 
Thanks
Bo


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## Durantefarm (Mar 7, 2018)

can you guys help me understand how i will clean out my pipe on my VC Montpelier when the time comes? i dont know how i will be able to access the pipe from inside to clean out off the creosote . thx in advance


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> I would love to hear from Montpelier owners what are your likes and dislikes? Also, how long have you owned it and have you had to do any repairs or is it showing any signs of wear and tear outside of the norm?


I don’t think there is are any Montpelier owners in this thread. Mostly encores and defiants


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2018)

Woodwringer said:


> Recently when I had the primary almost closed it apparently got starved for air and back puffed.


It’s possible you shut down the primary to fast or in to big of a bite. I can experience this from time to time. Especially when the outside temp is 30 or above.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Hi all, I posted another thread on this forum a few days ago regarding a new VC Encore I bought last month but was actually made about a year ago in February of 17'.  Problem was the access panel apparently is to small whereby it nearly falls out into the stove.  This leave near a 1/4" gap at the Top.  Is this right?  Dealer says it shouldn't affect the operation of the stove but I'm not so sure.  My take is during normal operation all smoke/gases should pass underneath the access panel not some at the top, right?  This panel is apparently the thicker version made due to breaking problems the thinner panels had previously according to the dealer.  Anyone else here have/had this problem?  Saw one review posted on a stove dealers webpage regarding a similar issue but that's it.  Maybe just my dumb luck.  It's been a year since the stove was built so maybe they fit better now.  Sorry about hijacking this thread on this but this seemed to be a better thread for VC issues.  Regards, Kevin


You might have the newest stove on the block. So you are going to have to educate us!!


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2018)

Durantefarm said:


> can you guys help me understand how i will clean out my pipe on my VC Montpelier when the time comes? i dont know how i will be able to access the pipe from inside to clean out off the creosote . thx in advance


You might want to ask this question in the regular forum. I don’t think there are many if any insert burners in this thread. And I don’t know how much the resident professionals stop by in this thread either.


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## defiant3 (Mar 8, 2018)

Welcome back, 31b!


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## defiant3 (Mar 8, 2018)

Kevin, see if you can tuck a piece of gasket material under the lowrer edge of the cover to raise it up slightlyso it better engages the holder thingy at the top.  The real fix for this would be to replace either the cover , the lower refractory, or both.  Should be a warranty item, good luck with that.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 8, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> Kevin, see if you can tuck a piece of gasket material under the lowrer edge of the cover to raise it up slightlyso it better engages the holder thingy at the top.  The real fix for this would be to replace either the cover , the lower refractory, or both.  Should be a warranty item, good luck with that.


Kinda seems rediculous that he whould have to do this on a brand new unit. Shouldn’t this have been caught at the factory or by the dealer before he sold it to the consumer?


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 8, 2018)

definat3, I was going to do that or put some gasket material on both ledges at the bottom that it sits on that would raise it up further.  I still may do that or as you mention putting the gasket material at the top.  But RandyBoBandy is right as well.  However when I went back to talk to the dealer about it, he wasn't inclined to say it should be replaced until if/when it would actually fall forward onto the grate.  He said the gap it creates at the top for not fitting more snug should not affect the performance.  I'm not so sure about that as I said in another post here on this.  In diagrams I've seen on the airflow when the damper is closed, it seems it would make a difference.  At least in the combustion chamber behind it.  Mind you though I'm not using the catalyst mode.  I've ordered another newer panel to see if there is a difference in the way it fits.  They're not too expensive, $80-$90 so I'm giving that a shot.  Otherwise only issue is when I top load smoke still comes out of the top when loading with the damper open as required.  I think my chimney needs cleaning out so that may be the culprit with this issue.  I don have a 3 1/2 foot horizontal run before it goes into the chimney so that probably doesn't help either.  Regards, Kevin


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 8, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> definat3, I was going to do that or put some gasket material on both ledges at the bottom that it sits on that would raise it up further.  I still may do that or as you mention putting the gasket material at the top.  But RandyBoBandy is right as well.  However when I went back to talk to the dealer about it, he wasn't inclined to say it should be replaced until if/when it would actually fall forward onto the grate.  He said the gap it creates at the top for not fitting more snug should not affect the performance.  I'm not so sure about that as I said in another post here on this.  In diagrams I've seen on the airflow when the damper is closed, it seems it would make a difference.  At least in the combustion chamber behind it.  Mind you though I'm not using the catalyst mode.  I've ordered another newer panel to see if there is a difference in the way it fits.  They're not too expensive, $80-$90 so I'm giving that a shot.  Otherwise only issue is when I top load smoke still comes out of the top when loading with the damper open as required.  I think my chimney needs cleaning out so that may be the culprit with this issue.  I don have a 3 1/2 foot horizontal run before it goes into the chimney so that probably doesn't help either.  Regards, Kevin


That 3 1/2’ section is definitely not helping. How tall is your chimney and is it lined?  If it’s lined is it insulated?


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 8, 2018)

Chimney is about 20' vertical above the horizontal section.  It is 8'' masonry with 6" stainless steel corrugated liner that was put in about 4 years ago.  Chimney is about 25 years old.  The horizontal 6" clay thimble though the chimney is about 1 1/2 in itself.  Yes the chimney is about 1 1/2 feet thick there.  The inside face of the chimney is the inside wall of the house there.  The chimney otherwise  is an outside chimney.  There is no insulation really unless you count the inch or between the stainless steel liner and the 8" square clay flue.  There is practically no way to eliminate the horizontal section save maybe to put two 45's in in place of the 90?.  That would mean putting a 45 right off the stove collar a short strait section and another 45 into the chimney thimble.  Maybe that is the way to go with it.    I'll try to get a picture on here.  I'm a newby here so I'll have to figure that out.  Kevin


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 8, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Chimney is about 20' vertical above the horizontal section.  It is 8'' masonry with 6" stainless steel corrugated liner that was put in about 4 years ago.  Chimney is about 25 years old.  The horizontal 6" clay thimble though the chimney is about 1 1/2 in itself.  Yes the chimney is about 1 1/2 feet thick there.  The inside face of the chimney is the inside wall of the house there.  The chimney otherwise  is an outside chimney.  There is no insulation really unless you count the inch or between the stainless steel liner and the 8" square clay flue.  There is practically no way to eliminate the horizontal section save maybe to put two 45's in in place of the 90?.  That would mean putting a 45 right off the stove collar a short strait section and another 45 into the chimney thimble.  Maybe that is the way to go with it.    I'll try to get a picture on here.  I'm a newby here so I'll have to figure that out.  Kevin


Is your liner insulated?


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 8, 2018)

The liner itself is not.  It is single layer corrugated stainless steel.  There may be some insulating material between the stainless steel liner and the clay masonry though but not positive of that.  Actually it will be cleaned in the near future by the sweep that also installed the stainless steel liner so I'll ask him then.  Kevin


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 8, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> The liner itself is not.  It is single layer corrugated stainless steel.  There may be some insulating material between the stainless steel liner and the clay masonry though but not positive of that.  Actually it will be cleaned in the near future by the sweep that also installed the stainless steel liner so I'll ask him then.  Kevin


Just about every sweep and installer on this forum is going to tell you there should be insulation between the liner and clay tile. Weather or not insulation will fit between a 6” liner and an 8” clay tile I don’t know. Hopefully a pro can chime in.  @begreen.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 8, 2018)

My last post also begs the question are two 45's better than one 90 to get the pipe to the chimney.  This would make 18" of a dead horizontal section 45 instead.  This on the face of it would seem to provide for a better draft, but would it really?  I'm thinking the strait section that would be 45 instead of horizontal would make the draft better overall.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 8, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> My last post also begs the question are two 45's better than one 90 to get the pipe to the chimney.  This would make 18" of a dead horizontal section 45 instead.  This on the face of it would seem to provide for a better draft, but would it really?  I'm thinking the strait section that would be 45 instead of horizontal would make the draft better overall.


I’m going to say yes. Two 45’s are better than a 90.


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## 31 bertram (Mar 8, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> Kevin, see if you can tuck a piece of gasket material under the lowrer edge of the cover to raise it up slightlyso it better engages the holder thingy at the top.  The real fix for this would be to replace either the cover , the lower refractory, or both.  Should be a warranty item, good luck with that.



Thanks Defiant3, it's great to be back.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 9, 2018)

Had some back puffing tonite.  First time for that.  Scary!  Will check chimney tomorrow for creosote accumulation.  Got feeling its worse than I thought.  I'm learning a lot with this stove.  Will be redoing the stove to chimney stove pipe replacing the 90 with two 45's.  This will replace 18" of horizontal making it 45 angle between stove and chimney.  This should help the draft some.  Kevin


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 10, 2018)

Found horizontal section had near solid wall of creosote.  Cleaned out that section and chimney.  All is good for now.  Started using the catalyst this evening.  Maybe that will cut down on the creosote.


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## defiant3 (Mar 11, 2018)

Gotta run it hotter, even w.o. catalyst it shouldn't be doing that!!


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 11, 2018)

Had a lot of Mulberry and some Osage Orange that wasn't well seasoned.  I'm sure that didn't help.  Trying to run with the catalyst lit but with GT around 400 or so.  Was doing this well last evening.  This thing is more of science to me even though the manual says conversely.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 11, 2018)

Okay, it still back puffs some.  This seems to be when the fire is in a stage where the wood that's left in seems to turning into charcoal.  But opening the air intake more or cutting it back seems to take care of it.  My only take is that it's a draft issue with set up of the chimney?  Will be removing about 8" of horizontal stove pipe altogether and replacing it a 45 section.  What horizontal is left woul be about 28" max.  Hope this helps.  Maybe the stove is just to big for this 6" flue?  I can see when the gases ignite in the stove causing the puff back.  Any advise on or other than the above much appreciated.  It's 44 out today.  That probably doesn't help.  Kevin


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 13, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Okay, it still back puffs some.  This seems to be when the fire is in a stage where the wood that's left in seems to turning into charcoal.  But opening the air intake more or cutting it back seems to take care of it.  My only take is that it's a draft issue with set up of the chimney?  Will be removing about 8" of horizontal stove pipe altogether and replacing it a 45 section.  What horizontal is left woul be about 28" max.  Hope this helps.  Maybe the stove is just to big for this 6" flue?  I can see when the gases ignite in the stove causing the puff back.  Any advise on or other than the above much appreciated.  It's 44 out today.  That probably doesn't help.  Kevin


44 degrees is not helping you out. 6” sould be fine, I think you only need the 8” if you plan on burning with the doors open.  Start with the replacing the 90 with 45’s and report back. Did you have your chimney cleaned yet?


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 13, 2018)

Agreed.  Has been running well last couple days.  Draft seems okay now, colder out.  The two 45's will go in the end of April.  Think that will do it.  Think burning too small/dry wood isn't helping either.  Some of that is gassing off very quickly after putting it in the stove.  Think next thing will purchase of moisture meter.  Noticed a little trick in getting the fire going quickly is to crack the ash door for half a minute.  It practically explodes into flames when I do that. Appreciate all the advise.  Kevin


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## Diabel (Mar 13, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Agreed.  Has been running well last couple days.  Draft seems okay now, colder out.  The two 45's will go in the end of April.  Think that will do it.  Think burning too small/dry wood isn't helping either.  Some of that is gassing off very quickly after putting it in the stove.  Think next thing will purchase of moisture meter.  Noticed a little trick in getting the fire going quickly is to crack the ash door for half a minute.  It practically explodes into flames when I do that. Appreciate all the advise.  Kevin




I would not get used to that trick "opening the ash pan"!
Bad idea.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 14, 2018)

What Diabel said. No ash door assistance. If need be crack the front door until you get some flame. Definitely get a moisture meter. It’s fine to put a few small splits on top of the coals for easy light off but top those with bigger splits.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 14, 2018)

I understand the ash door assistance issue.  I found this by accident the first day of use when the latch wasn't secured all the way and I couldn't get the fire to calm down.  Was amazed at the draft it created through the fire with the damper open.  Basically making it run like a coal stove.  Still learning a lot here with this stove.  Lots of physics in play here.  Maybe not science as the manual says, but definitely physics.  I never thought it was possible for wood to be too dry.  But it is apparently now days.  Which begs another question.  What do you do with wood that's too dry?  Moisten it up somehow?  Discard it?  Kevin


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## High_flyer (Mar 14, 2018)

Hey all,

As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs

This is one very finicky stove, and most I can say is that it is starved for air. The unit is very tight, once I get a good fire burning by letting in extra air through either cracking the front doors or cracking open the ashpan tray (just a hair cracked will do the trick)
As soon as I close it up with the primary air fully open the flames will almost immediatly cease and the stove will just die down leaving some of the wood unburnt
If I give it some extra air I can control it better and it will burn down completely, if feels like something isn't right with this stove and I am considering adding another adjustable air intake into the ashpan door to gove it a bit more air, obviously I don't want to leave it unattnded with the risk of the ashpan door falling open or  the same thing happening with the doors.

I will still have to move this beast to install the vent kit and hook it up to outside air and I'll take a good look at the primary air intake on the back.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Mar 14, 2018)

High_flyer said:


> Hey all,
> 
> As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs
> 
> ...


If your fire goes out shortly after, it is a wood issue, not a draft issue most likely.  

I recently posed the question of what is the difference between cracking the door and cracking the ash pan door. The answer is, the stove is not designed for cracking the ash pan door and you will not only void your warranty, but will damage your stove if you do this.


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## Dobish (Mar 14, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> I understand the ash door assistance issue.  I found this by accident the first day of use when the latch wasn't secured all the way and I couldn't get the fire to calm down.  Was amazed at the draft it created through the fire with the damper open.  Basically making it run like a coal stove.  Still learning a lot here with this stove.  Lots of physics in play here.  Maybe not science as the manual says, but definitely physics.  I never thought it was possible for wood to be too dry.  But it is apparently now days.  Which begs another question.  What do you do with wood that's too dry?  Moisten it up somehow?  Discard it?  Kevin



Mix super duper dry wood with other wood that is not so dry. Manual says it can be, but people here on hearth say it can't be


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## High_flyer (Mar 14, 2018)

I've been burning pretty dry wood, wood that's seasoned for 3+ years in my wood shed, as I read up on it and that this stove doesn't take green wood very well.
I still feel there is something not right with the amount of air it lets into the stove. My Vigilant (although a European model) was fool proof and would be very controllable with the primary air intake, on this stove i basically see no difference in any primary air setting


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Mar 14, 2018)

High_flyer said:


> I've been burning pretty dry wood, wood that's seasoned for 3+ years in my wood shed, as I read up on it and that this stove doesn't take green wood very well.
> I still feel there is something not right with the amount of air it lets into the stove. My Vigilant (although a European model) was fool proof and would be very controllable with the primary air intake, on this stove i basically see no difference in any primary air setting
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


is it controllable after the cat has been engaged?


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## High_flyer (Mar 14, 2018)

Without letting in extra air it will die out, whether on cat or upflow, since we have to get the fire established quite a bit better to get the cat going, it will take a little longer, but will die down anyway


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Mar 14, 2018)

is your air valve control connected? it might have not been installed correctly.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 14, 2018)

High_flyer said:


> Hey all,
> 
> As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs
> 
> ...


These newer epa stoves are a different beast than your old stove. You are singing the same song a lot guys do when they upgrade from their old stove. Can we assume your chimney and cap are clean and not plugged up?


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## High_flyer (Mar 14, 2018)

I have some experience with the newer EPA stoves, but mostly the 'cheapo' US Stove/Englander ones with the secondary air tubes. I'm not really that opposed to them.

The Defiant is in a house that I am redoing, so the chimney and stove pipe is all brand new, and after a little over 2 months burning only a small dusting on the inner walls of them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 16, 2018)

Getting back to the Encore back puffing. Still doing this with what I think is right okay draft.  It's always when the fire is at a certain level of solid wood left to burn and is off gassing.  The fire seems to start smoldering erupts into flames underneath the griddle with smoke puffing out around the griddle, nowhere else.  Thought the least resistance to this would be out through the combuster, no?  When I add bigger pieces or pieces with a higher MC it does not happen.  Does size really matter that much or is it MC.  The manual alludes too dry wood could cause this no matter the draft.   Boy that would make this a very finicky stove too operate.  I haven't heard anyone really say this but it appears the engineering on this is that no matter the draft, for the catalyst to work you can't have too little or too much draft going back through it, yes, no?  Just trying to get it figured out.  Other than this issue the stove I think is running well.  Right now I have only at best 4" pieces mostly about 3 to 3 1/2 thick.  I had a small Waterford Leprechaun stove before so that's the only wood that's seasoned I can use right now.  Next year will be different.  Got that CSS already.  Any thoughts or comments appreciated.  Will be changing the one 90 stove pipe to two 45's and eliminating near a foot of f horizontal so that should help.  Kevin


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 18, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Getting back to the Encore back puffing. Still doing this with what I think is right okay draft.  It's always when the fire is at a certain level of solid wood left to burn and is off gassing.  The fire seems to start smoldering erupts into flames underneath the griddle with smoke puffing out around the griddle, nowhere else.  Thought the least resistance to this would be out through the combuster, no?  When I add bigger pieces or pieces with a higher MC it does not happen.  Does size really matter that much or is it MC.  The manual alludes too dry wood could cause this no matter the draft.   Boy that would make this a very finicky stove too operate.  I haven't heard anyone really say this but it appears the engineering on this is that no matter the draft, for the catalyst to work you can't have too little or too much draft going back through it, yes, no?  Just trying to get it figured out.  Other than this issue the stove I think is running well.  Right now I have only at best 4" pieces mostly about 3 to 3 1/2 thick.  I had a small Waterford Leprechaun stove before so that's the only wood that's seasoned I can use right now.  Next year will be different.  Got that CSS already.  Any thoughts or comments appreciated.  Will be changing the one 90 stove pipe to two 45's and eliminating near a foot of f horizontal so that should help.  Kevin



So this is the way i look at it. Back puffing is opperator error. Back puffing is a buildup of gasses in the fire box. With the introduction of enough oxygen to set off a seconday burn in the fire box every so often. This means that you have the air set to low for the ammount of wood that is gassing off. Moving the air control slightly up will allow more air in and will allow the secondary burn the happen in the box burning off the gas so it dosent build up.. or turning the air down so that less air is introduced and it dosent have enough air to take off every so often. What your describing is you found a sweet spot for the creation of back puffing. When i run my stove and the cat is engaged with a load of wood in it, I run it with the air fully open, 3/4 open, 1/2 way open, but never any lower than 1/2. So i have the secondary flames going. If i turn it down to say 1/3rd. Gasses will build and it may back puff. If you want to burn slower than turn your air past 1/3 so less air goes in. Hope this helps


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 18, 2018)

this is what you looking for to keep your stove from back puffing


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67, exactly.  I have put wood on greater than 4".  This has resolved the problem >90%.  Hard to believe wood size makes that difference.  So size matters.  I'm still going to replace the 90 in the stove pipe with two 45's so this combined with what's been said above should be the total cure.  Thanks all.  Kevin


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## Cast Iron (Mar 19, 2018)

Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.

The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
Top loading
Pretty
Enamel (not brown, not red, not white )
Catalyst ( friends have Woodstocks )
I said "pretty" ?
Thermostatic air control.

Me ? Reading here about the problems with Vermont Castings is a problem for me. Have they changed in quality ? Service ?
Any using the Flexburns 2in1 for a season of heat or more have concerns ? Reliable ? Warranty issues ?


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 19, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.
> 
> The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
> Top loading
> ...


If you can get her to give up the top loader the blaze king Ashford 30 gets a lot more love around here and has top notch manufacturer support as well. It’s hard to beat the looks of a VC though. I think there are a few flexburners on here  hopefully the chim in for you. 
@Dobish, @defiant3,


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## Diabel (Mar 19, 2018)

Your wife is correct regarding the looks. The stove has a long learning curve, once the sweet spot discovered it can perform well and be a great heater.
Warranty.......I never even attempted to contact the manufacturer regarding any issues (I got all answers here).

I am in a process of installing a second stove (different house) and sadly it will not be VC.


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## Dobish (Mar 19, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.
> 
> The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
> Top loading
> ...


I'm going on 3 years with my 2n1 encore.  I feel like with the exception of the cat breaking, the issues have been wood related.  I have contacted vc direct and they were very helpful.  They do like you to do everything though your local distributor,  so if you don't have one,  that might be a problem.  Start getting your wood dry now,  the 2n1 is sensitive.  You can always burn it hotter, and clean more often.  

A lot of people are against them,  i love mine.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 19, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If you can get her to give up the top loader the blaze king Ashford 30 gets a lot more love around here and has top notch manufacturer support as well. It’s hard to beat the looks of a VC though. I think there are a few flexburners on here  hopefully the chim in for you.
> @Dobish, @defiant3,



Yup, I wanted the Ashford...but she said no to the looks, to the front load, to the enamel colors.. I must obey so far.
And why is BK the only maker who posts here ? Impressive. No Woodstock, Jotul, PE.


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## Dobish (Mar 19, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Yup, I wanted the Ashford...but she said no to the looks, to the front load, to the enamel colors.. I must obey so far.
> And why is BK the only maker who posts here ? Impressive. No Woodstock, Jotul, PE.


Top load is my favorite.  I only open the doors to clean and for a cold start


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 19, 2018)

I have an encore 2in1 and could not be happier. Im heating solely with wood. Dont get me wrong i turn on the heat now and then but wood is the way i go. The only issue was the 2 months into my first year with the stove i dropped the cat.. broke it.. and VC still replaced it.. I run my stove alot, I dont take it easy on it neather and it proforms great. I have it serviced twice a year, stove pipe. Clean the cat once per week, and runs like a champ. Its not that hard to run and i have 2 thermometers on it. One on the griddle and one on the stove pipe.. my pipe is an 8in..  I read alot from the nay sayers and just laugh on how difficult they think it is to run and its really not.. my 10yr old son and my wife run it with no issues.. it hasn't over fired, the cat kicks right off, my stove pipe dosent have this outrageous ammount of creosote, its been maintenance free except for the sweep. After an overnight burn the glass is a little dirty,but in the morning I kick it up to 600 and the glass is crystal clear.. oh yeah did I mention that I get burn times of 10 to 12 hours regularly and sometimes longer depending on what kind of wood I put into it.  Would i buy this stove again.. absolutely


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 19, 2018)

Woodsplitter67, I'm greatly encouraged.  One thing to note the 2016 owners manual makes no mention of an adjustment or an "allowed" adjustment to the primary air damper.  The 2017 manual does.  I noticed on mine when I was setting it up that the damper was closed when the handle was only half way in the closed position.  So I adjusted it to close at the full back position (which I assume is what it should be).  There must have been some acknowledgment at VC that this was a problem.  Also noticed when I did this that the allen screw that was supposed to be tight on the cable was not even hand tight.  Maybe quality control guys were on vacation in February 17' when this was tagged as being built???  So far what I've learned is you should have above average draft (more than so so), wood larger than 4"  diameter,  and wood that has a moister content between 14% and 20%.  You take any one of these out of the equation, then problems may/will surface (mainly puff back conditions).  I can adhere to these rules though.  I haven't reached a 12 hour burn time yet but I've gotten 8 hours whereby I only need a few 2" dry pieces added for 15 minutes to being it back up to where I can add the big stuff.  This may beg another question, how big is too big?  If it fits though the top , its good to go?  Kevin


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 19, 2018)

Dobish said:


> Top load is my favorite.  I only open the doors to clean and for a cold start


Same here. Top load is very convenient.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 19, 2018)

So far you have saved me from death...or worse  since I was not comfortable with Vermont Castings' rep.
Dealers out of area have been satisfied with service on warranty claims...I called them before the big home war started over which stove.
Maybe one of the more senior people around here can answer why only the BK guy posts on heartthnet out of all the makers. You get a lot of info from insiders. It just plain good marketing.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 19, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Woodsplitter67, I'm greatly encouraged.  One thing to note the 2016 owners manual makes no mention of an adjustment or an "allowed" adjustment to the primary air damper.  The 2017 manual does.  I noticed on mine when I was setting it up that the damper was closed when the handle was only half way in the closed position.  So I adjusted it to close at the full back position (which I assume is what it should be).  There must have been some acknowledgment at VC that this was a problem.  Also noticed when I did this that the allen screw that was supposed to be tight on the cable was not even hand tight.  Maybe quality control guys were on vacation in February 17' when this was tagged as being built???  So far what I've learned is you should have above average draft (more than so so), wood larger than 4"  diameter,  and wood that has a moister content between 14% and 20%.  You take any one of these out of the equation, then problems may/will surface (mainly puff back conditions).  I can adhere to these rules though.  I haven't reached a 12 hour burn time yet but I've gotten 8 hours whereby I only need a few 2" dry pieces added for 15 minutes to being it back up to where I can add the big stuff.  This may beg another question, how big is too big?  If it fits though the top , its good to go?  Kevin


I cram my stove full all the way up to griddle top. I use a range of split sizes to get a tight stack. I like to fill as much air space as I can with fuel. I don’t hesitate to put 6” splits in when I have  them.


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## defiant3 (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron,consider wht your intentions are for this stove.The harder these guys have to work, the less people generally lke them. Are you looking for a full time, primary heater or something supplemental?  Keep in mind you're in a colder climate as well, and those who are successful with their stoves in N.J. for example just don't demand as much of them as you may way up north.  Also, find out if there are service people in your area.If not, make a pact with your wife that you get to do the "I told you so" thing when the V.C. needs repair and there's no one to do it.  Don't get me wrong I'm a big V.C. fan, but they don't always make good workhorse stoves in northern climates.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 20, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> Cast Iron,consider wht your intentions are for this stove.The harder these guys have to work, the less people generally lke them. Are you looking for a full time, primary heater or something supplemental?  Keep in mind you're in a colder climate as well, and those who are successful with their stoves in N.J. for example just don't demand as much of them as you may way up north.  Also, find out if there are service people in your area.If not, make a pact with your wife that you get to do the* "I told you so"* thing when the V.C. needs repair and there's no one to do it.  Don't get me wrong I'm a big V.C. fan, but they don't always make good workhorse stoves in northern climates.



The "I told you so" ain't the option Defiiant . Not with wives.Maybe with a dog.
The stove will be for hard use. One of the things before the sale is the VC warranty, the dealer's service promise ...right.
With the so called new VC, what can fail on this? Do BK or Woodstock stoves have any failures besides the cat and gaskets ?


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## Diabel (Mar 20, 2018)

If you decide to go with VC, two things are a must.
A flue probe and a cat probe (ideally Auber at100).


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## Cast Iron (Mar 20, 2018)

Diabel said:


> If you decide to go with VC, two things are a must.
> A flue probe and a cat probe (ideally Auber at100).


Agree. The 'new' Flexburn comes with a catalyst probe wayyyyyy in the rear, unreadable. But they do supply it.
Your Auber 100 needs to be plugged in. Not so simple for us. Any non 110v cat probes aroud besides Condor ?


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## Dobish (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Agree. The 'new' Flexburn comes with a catalyst probe wayyyyyy in the rear, unreadable. But they do supply it.
> Your Auber 100 needs to be plugged in. Not so simple for us. Any non 110v cat probes aroud besides Condor ?


i ended up adding an outlet near my stove so I could plug in my AT100. definitely worth the 35 minutes it took me. I had to snake it through 2 different walls and a ceiling.


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## bholler (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> So far you have saved me from death...or worse  since I was not comfortable with Vermont Castings' rep.
> Dealers out of area have been satisfied with service on warranty claims...I called them before the big home war started over which stove.
> Maybe one of the more senior people around here can answer why only the BK guy posts on heartthnet out of all the makers. You get a lot of info from insiders. It just plain good marketing.


Stove guy from englander posts here some.  I beleive there is a guy from sbi who posts occasionally as well.

I know many of these guys have figured out their vc stoves and they work well for them.  But i work on stoves every day and i can tell you that vc still has durability problems with the internal parts and people still have problems running them correctly more than most other stoves.  Harmans are the only other ones that are as routinely problematic.  I will never have one in my house and will not be recomending one to anyone soon either.  I have had many vc stoves but they all were used as outside fireplaces untill they fell apart.  Then i grab another one that we pull out to replace and use it.


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## bholler (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> The "I told you so" ain't the option Defiiant . Not with wives.Maybe with a dog.
> The stove will be for hard use. One of the things before the sale is the VC warranty, the dealer's service promise ...right.
> With the so called new VC, what can fail on this? Do BK or Woodstock stoves have any failures besides the cat and gaskets ?


Well yes any stove will have a few failures but bk and woodstock both have good track records for reliability.  Especially bk.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 20, 2018)

bholler said:


> Well yes any stove will have a few failures but bk and woodstock both have good track records for reliability.  Especially bk.


Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
Thanks.


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## bholler (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
> Thanks.


Delicate and expensive refractory panels.  Poor cat life.  Puffback.  Hard for people to learn to use.  Poor customer support.  Warantee is a joke.  Finicky latches frequent gasket replacement.  

Really the newest stoves are slightly easier to run and the internals seem to be a little more durable.  But all of the other problems are still there.


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## Diabel (Mar 20, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
> Thanks.



Overall the downdraft system is known to be problematic. Yes, some of us have it dialed in and it works. But to a novice it will be a chalange. This is just my opinion. It is still the best looking stove out there!!


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## Cast Iron (Mar 21, 2018)

bholler said:


> Well yes any stove will have a few failures but bk and woodstock both have good track records for reliability.  Especially bk.


Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
Thanks.


Diabel said:


> Overall the downdraft system is known to be problematic. Yes, some of us have it dialed in and it works. But to a novice it will be a chalange. This is just my opinion. It is still the *best looking *stove out there!!



"Best looking" goes a long way with a wife.....errrrr and stove.
I got the manual and the service manual for the Defiant/Encore Flexburns from VC. The refractory is completely changed from the old ones, the cast plates are now gasketed, no more secondary air 'control', the ash pan latch is improved, the so-called "dual" use seems OK, and dealers ( 4 called in N.E. ) are pleased with warranty service from the comapny. Bholler is right that the damper is the same complicated mess as older ones. Research done. Too much ? The VC posts here are super.
No real complaints here so far for the Flexburn 2in1 ?


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ...


If you are willing to put in the time to learn how to properly run the VC and don’t abuse or overfire it it should be a good heater for you. This is not a “throw firewood in and walk away stove”. You will need 3 thermometers (flue, griddle top, and cat) and more than likely you will end up restricting the secondary air in some fashion. The condar thermo is battery powered but a piece of junk as well. I would recommend adding an outlet like dobish did and getting the AT100. 
I’m surprised the wife didn’t like the Ashford. It has that cast iron classic look. Does it have to be a cat stove?  The pacific energy T5 and T6 are great looking stoves that come in enamel.


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## Diabel (Mar 21, 2018)

I remember when I did my limited/uneducated stove research ("looks"was at the top of the list), Quadrafire had a top loader. It was a serious heater (non cat). Later I had learned through this site that it is a great stove and very good looking to add.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Can you be *specific* about problems with the VC Flexburns that you worked on in the past few years with the 'new' owners and changes ?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i am fully aware of the changes i have worked on enough to know.  And like i said it is better.  But still way behind just about everyone else.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I remember when I did my limited/uneducated stove research ("looks"was at the top of the list), Quadrafire had a top loader. It was a serious heater (non cat). Later I had learned through this site that it is a great stove and very good looking to add.


Yes pretty much the only top loader i would ever consider.  But it would have to be used now


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## Cast Iron (Mar 21, 2018)

bholler said:


> Yes i am fully aware of the changes i have worked on enough to know.  And like i said it is better.  But still way behind just about everyone else.


What parts/systems of the Flexburns have you had to repair or replace ? Age of the stoves ? User errors ?
The top load Quadra Fires looked at seemed too clutzy, too much to swing out of the way to load that could break....for me. Ugly to boot !


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> What parts/systems of the Flexburns have you had to repair or replace ? Age of the stoves ? User errors ?
> The top load Quadra Fires looked at seemed too clutzy, too much to swing out of the way to load that could break....for me. Ugly to boot !


I have replaced several different internal parts on different stoves i dont have the exact info on the ages of the stoves i worked on available.  And yes much of that damage was from user error as most damage to stoves is.  The difference is that vc stoves dont stand up to mistakes nearly as well as most other stoves.  As far as the quad goes we work on 4 or 5 of them and i have only had to replace gaskets and one peice of glass on them.  And they have been in service much longer than the new vcs that have needed many more parts.


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## webfish (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> The top load Quadra Fires looked at seemed too clutzy, too much to swing out of the way to load that could break....for me. Ugly to boot !



My Explorer 3 is not clutzy, at least I don't think so. I don't really use the top loader as I find it easier to use front. Ugly? hmmmmm.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 21, 2018)

Looks good to me.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

webfish said:


> My Explorer 3 is not clutzy, at least I don't think so. I don't really use the top loader as I find it easier to use front. Ugly? hmmmmm.
> 
> View attachment 224691


I completly forgot that the explorer 3 was a top loader.


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## begreen (Mar 21, 2018)

Must be referring to the Isle Royale. That stove has a very respectable history of good service without a lot of maintenance. And it is very good looking. One of the few large stoves that passed the wife test in our house.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

begreen said:


> Must be referring to the Isle Royale. That stove has a very respectable history of good service without a lot of maintenance. And it is very good looking. One of the few large stoves that passed the wife test in our house.
> View attachment 224693


Yes that is the one i was referring to it was a good reliable heater.  And looked very good as well.  I actually prefer it to the look of the vc a little but that is just personal taste.  I could see how others would feel differently.


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## Diabel (Mar 21, 2018)

begreen said:


> Must be referring to the Isle Royale. That stove has a very respectable history of good service without a lot of maintenance. And it is very good looking. One of the few large stoves that passed the wife test in our house.
> View attachment 224693



Yes that is the one. This one passed the wife test here. But I decided to go with VC NC what a mistake that was........


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## Cast Iron (Mar 21, 2018)

"T.W.T." The Wife Test.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 21, 2018)

bholler said:


> I completly forgot that the explorer 3 was a top loader.



Too much mechanism on top to swing out to load. The 2 Flexburns are straight and open top loads. But the Explorer 3 is not too bad a looker for TWT.


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## Diabel (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast,

How is your wood supply? VC will make you hate it with sub par wood supply......!


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Too much mechanism on top to swing out to load. The 2 Flexburns are straight and open top loads. But the Explorer 3 is not too bad a looker for TWT.


You may think it is to much mechanism but it holds up much better than the internals of even the new vc stoves


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## Cast Iron (Mar 21, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Cast,
> 
> How is your wood supply? VC will make you hate it with sub par wood supply......!



Not bad. Plenty stored from years past, well dry hardwoods. 



bholler said:


> You may think it is to much mechanism but it holds up much better than the internals of even the new vc stoves



What *specific parts *fail in the Flexburn stoves that you have had to fix in the past few years ? They say in their legalistic warranty that most parts will be replaced for some years. Dealers say only the refractory cover has had to be replaced since some drop frozen splits in.
I didn't like the flip away tubes in the top loading Quadra....smallish space for splits, kind of cute design, looks like it's waiting to fail.
Thanks.


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## bholler (Mar 21, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Not bad. Plenty stored from years past, well dry hardwoods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have replaced just about each internal part atleast once on various stoves and most were not covered under warantee because it was deemed to be caused by abuse.  I dont know exactly what parts were replaced when and i dont care enough to spend the time to look it up.  I work on hundreds of stoves a year i dont remember all the details of each repair.  You obviously already have you mind set on a new vc so good luck to you.  You will need it.

And look at the reveiws of the quads they have very few complaints about durability.  And i have never had to do anything to any of the isleroyals we work on other than normal maintenance stuff.  I really have no input on the explorer 3 i have yet to run into one in the feild.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 22, 2018)

No "made up mind" or there would not be this request to Flexburn owners. My research is damn intense getting the service manual (tough going BTW), calling dealers, stopping in dealer's shops and Woodstock's factory, and calling some. Anyone would do the same "due diligence" with saws, firearms, vehicles,, anything.
But hearthnet has the most experts on stoves and using them. Hours on early posts and accounts on hearthnet about VC history and stoves before posting.
So, has this version of VC turned the corner on quality, reliability, and service with the newer Flexburn models ? That's the question *to owners.* 
I have said what we want and need; no need to repeat. Decisions are based on intelligence not old info or hearsay.
Thanks.


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## Diabel (Mar 22, 2018)

I always wandered about the cat size in the new VCs. It is 1/2 the size of the older model VCs. It has to work twice the amount to burn all the smoke in the firebox. Does that mean it has 1/2 the life span?


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## Cast Iron (Mar 22, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I always wandered about the cat size in the new VCs. It is 1/2 the size of the older model VCs. It has to work twice the amount to burn all the smoke in the firebox. Does that mean it has 1/2 the life span?



Good thot. The VC warranty for this 1/2 cat is 3 years, more than 12,000 hours usual for your thicker cat. Their warranty is in the manual. Big change from earlier VC and most stoves.


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## bholler (Mar 22, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Good thot. The VC warranty for this 1/2 cat is 3 years, more than 12,000 hours usual for your thicker cat. Their warranty is in the manual. Big change from earlier VC and most stoves.


Ok that covers the first one if you can get them to honor it.  Hht is not that easy to deal with on warrranty claims.  They are better than the old vc but not great.

Oh and regencys cats are covered for 3 years and prorated up to 6.  Blaze kings is prorated up to 6 years.  Woodstocks is 3 years so the warranty on vc cats is less than most.


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## defiant3 (Mar 23, 2018)

For what it's worth Cast Iron, the newest version of the Defiant and Encore, the "Flex Burn" is better than any of the other catalytic or non-cat versions .  The refractory is more durable and catalyst is easier to access and maintain.  People have had better success when using a probe thermometer I guess, and the important thing is to keep the operating temp. where it should be.  I would consider the idwea of the larger stove (Defiant) which won't have to stress itself heating the house over the Encore which may need to run hotter?  In the old days it was advantageous to run a smaller stove hotter, but not any more!


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 23, 2018)

Got a call from HHT the other day as result of a comment card I filled out that came with the stove and sent in noting a very ill fitting access panel that practically falls into the stove.  Sent it to the address in Bethel VT that was on the card and came back no such address.  Then sent it to their corporate office in Minnesota.  On they're voice mail said to call them with a claim number they gave.  Have not been able to call them back yet but it looks like they want to know what's going on here and resolve it.  Kevin


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## Cast Iron (Mar 23, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> For what it's worth Cast Iron, the newest version of the Defiant and Encore, the "Flex Burn" is better than any of the other catalytic or non-cat versions .  The refractory is more durable and catalyst is easier to access and maintain.  People have had better success when using a probe thermometer I guess, and the important thing is to keep the operating temp. where it should be.  I would consider the idwea of the larger stove (Defiant) which won't have to stress itself heating the house over the Encore which may need to run hotter?  In the old days it was advantageous to run a smaller stove hotter, but not any more!



That is what I get also. But a lot more from the company and dealers (4):

1.Fast response to warranty claims from HHT/VC.One dealer said all they have to do is send a pic of the part ( usually access panel cracked or cat ).     The new part comes within a week.
2. Hardened, durable refractory.
3. Dual EPA design to run as a non cat. Simple design for the owner to remove the cat IF they want.
4. I pushed for the service manual ( well done BTW ) to see the actual potential problems and construction. Many changes.
5. No rear secondary air control to break.
6. Better ash door latch.
7. Standard heat shields bottom and rear.
8. Standard cat probe with the stove (altho a pain in the a__ to read on the lower rear ). Advice here says to get an Auber.
and...
9. "Limited Lifetime Warranty" ( complete for anyone to see in the Owners Manual ) which is not too bad compared to most other makers.


The specs as ordered by my boss ( Bholler read above please ! ) will not permit a wood stove that is not pretty ( Regency ), is not top laoding, and has a nice enamel color ( she demands "Twilight", not a white, not brown ). Like BK stoves this Flexburn has thermostatic primary air which I want.( I have some authority here authorized ) .
OK, so the damper control is kind of clutzy, agreed. I can live with that with all of the other mandatory specs mentioned.
The VC Service Manual is well done. Not easy to get unless you push hard and whine and repeat.



.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 23, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Got a call from HHT the other day as result of a comment card I filled out that came with the stove and sent in noting a very ill fitting access panel that practically falls into the stove.  Sent it to the address in Bethel VT that was on the card and came back no such address.  Then sent it to their corporate office in Minnesota.  On they're voice mail said to call them with a claim number they gave.  Have not been able to call them back yet but it looks like they want to know what's going on here and resolve it.  Kevin



Why didn't you contact your dealer ?


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## bholler (Mar 23, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> That is what I get also. But a lot more from the company and dealers (4):
> 
> 1.Fast response to warranty claims from HHT/VC.One dealer said all they have to do is send a pic of the part ( usually access panel cracked or cat ).     The new part comes within a week.
> 2. Hardened, durable refractory.
> ...


Yes i read those requirements and they are tailor made for the vc.  Which is why i said it is clear your mind is made up.

As far as the improvements listed yes they are true.  And yes they are improvements as i said before.  But again they still fall far behind most other stoves when it comes to durability and ease of operation.  

You need to realize you are going by the marketing material and the word of tge dealer who are trying to sell you a stove.  If you d ont want to trust the word of people who have nothing to gain or loose in this transaction but who work on these stoves that is your prerogative.  So again good luck i hope it works out for you


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## Diabel (Mar 23, 2018)

It looks like your mind is made up! Welcome to VC family. Every stove has a learning curve.....VCs is perhaps a bit longer.

Very good point above regarding getting the bigger Defiant vs the small Encore. I second that.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 23, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Why didn't you contact your dealer ?


I went back to the dealer after installing the stove to see what he had to say about the access panel not fitting right, or in my mind was not right, but what did I know.  Dealer said as long has it didn't actually fall into the stove it should still function okay.  I took that to mean did not qualify for a warranty claim.  The gap at top was not considered an issue by him.  This still didn't seem right as a brochure show all the smoke and gas travel up underneath the access panel then in a 'U' back down through the catalyst.  He said if it actually won't stay upright and falls on the grate then by all means bring it back and it will be replaced, no problems.  The stove still seems to function okay that way has he says but I feel it still isn't probably as efficient this way as it should be.  He did say that there was a re-design back in 16' with making the panel thicker (which is the panel I had) has folks were dropping big pieces in there hitting and breaking the panel being apparently too thin.  I went ahead and ordered a newer panel anyway just to see if there is no another difference.  The new one arrived the other day and it does look different in that there may be an additional area at the bottom to make up for it being too short, maybe.  I haven't fit it in there yet  because I haven't had a warm day to shut the stove down yet.  14'' snow a few days ago. So that's the long and short of it.  I've learned a lot with this stove and as has been said this catalytic stoves are not your father's stove and run completely different.  I huge learning curve for me, but I got it down now.  Kevin


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## Cast Iron (Mar 23, 2018)

Holler: what is a "prerogative" ?


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## bholler (Mar 23, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Holler: what is a "prerogative" ?


The same as perogative only spelled correctly.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 23, 2018)

The spell police have struck !


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## bholler (Mar 23, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> The spell police have struck !


Yes in this case you tried to be the spelling police but you were wrong.  Honestly my spelling is horrible so the spelling police could usually have a field day with me.  But not this time lol.


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## Diabel (Mar 23, 2018)

Every forum has them. 
Bholler got his point across, the spelling is secondary.


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## bholler (Mar 23, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Every forum has them.
> Bholler got his point across, the spelling is secondary.


Thanks but for once i was right.  I dont get that very often when called out for spelling mistakes.


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## Diabel (Mar 23, 2018)

bholler said:


> Thanks but for once i was right.  I dont get that very often when called out for spelling mistakes.



English (American) grammar is complicated......
So are the VC stoves.....of you all get my drift.


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## bholler (Mar 23, 2018)

Diabel said:


> English (American) grammar is complicated......
> So are the VC stoves.....of you all get my drift.


Yeah i wasnt saying anything critical of your post at all.  And honestly i am happy to see vc starting to make improvements i hope they continue to improve so they can regain their reputation.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 23, 2018)

Another thing to think about cast iron. How handy are you?  With the learning curve that is is going to happen and the maintenance that these VC stoves require are you planning on doing this your self or are you going to hire it out?  I’m not making assumptions so don’t take it personal just some people can spin a wrench and some can’t. VC stoves are not stoves for those who can’t.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 24, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Another thing to think about cast iron. How handy are you?  With the learning curve that is is going to happen and the maintenance that these VC stoves require are you planning on doing this your self or are you going to hire it out?  I’m not making assumptions so don’t take it personal just some people can spin a wrench and some can’t. VC stoves are not stoves for those who can’t.



Good point., thanks it makes sense. With the basic old dislike for VC based on little actual hands-on work, not taking in any new info, and the inability to read the info in my posts, can we just have some actual owner' use of the actual Defiant/Encore Flexburns post about what they think from use ? 
The official Flexburn Service Manual is well done for repairs and rebuilding. The other 2 stoves I investigated BK and Woodstock don't give out service manuals either. No, I'm not Mr. Handy, but from the pics and diagrams, and instructions the main part that looks like future problems is the damper ( not mentioned by Holler BTW ). 
From posts on rebuilding on hearthnet of the earlier VC cat stoves, that damper is the same in the Flexburns and doesn't look well engineered. Even BK and Woodstock stoves have had minor build problems that have been resolved. Give BKVP a big fat hand for his work !
Long reply, sorry. But the negatives posted from non VC Flexburn 2in1 owners don't add to the knowledge base I'm wanting.
So, look: research on hearthnet, demands from the partner, owners experiences WITH THIS STOVE, Service Manual, dealer reactions to warranty claims from the factory, the warranty ( read it, it is pretty clear what is covered ), original post demands from The Wife. The Wife says.....
Can any company change a bad rep with transformation of builds ? GM ?  Japanese vehicles ( not so long ago they were tin rattle traps ) before Demming ? Could it be that Vermont Castings' holder HHT has improved their ISO quality and warranty service equal to say BK ? Maybe not like a maker like Woodstock ( coul;dn't you guys in N.H. 
make a top loader ? ) .


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## bholler (Mar 24, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Good point., thanks it makes sense. With the basic old dislike for VC based on little actual hands-on work, not taking in any new info, and the inability to read the info in my posts, can we just have some actual owner' use of the actual Defiant/Encore Flexburns post about what they think from use ?
> The official Flexburn Service Manual is well done for repairs and rebuilding. The other 2 stoves I investigated BK and Woodstock don't give out service manuals either. No, I'm not Mr. Handy, but from the pics and diagrams, and instructions the main part that looks like future problems is the damper ( not mentioned by Holler BTW ).
> From posts on rebuilding on hearthnet of the earlier VC cat stoves, that damper is the same in the Flexburns and doesn't look well engineered. Even BK and Woodstock stoves have had minor build problems that have been resolved. Give BKVP a big fat hand for his work !
> Long reply, sorry. But the negatives posted from non VC Flexburn 2in1 owners don't add to the knowledge base I'm wanting.
> ...


I have not seen any problems with dampers on flex burns yet.  And it was never the most common issue with the older ones either.  Yes things can warp there and cause problems but usually not till 8 to 10 years later.  Or it the stove is abused.

I really dont understand why you are discounting my input and the input of defiant 3 simply because we dont own the stove.  We work on the stoves and deal with the problems that arise.  To me that is pretty valid information. 

We can read the info in your posts.  But you also asked for input on the stoves which was given.  If you didnt want that input why ask for it.  It is clear that if your requirements are not negoitable the only stove that will work ia a vc.  So just get the stove. 

Yes i have a dislike of vc based on the horrible stoves they put out in the past and the horrible customer service they provided. And yes these stoves are an improvement.  But those improvements dont bring them up to meet the durability of most other stoves on the market.  That is an opinion formed from working on stoves every day and comparing these stoves to the others available.  And no one here has contested that. 

As far as the tech manual no most other stoves dont offer that.  You know why because it isnt needed they dont take the work that vc stove do.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 26, 2018)

So, from you actual hands-on users and real time repair techs WITH the new and improved company's owners (HHT) and the real improvements on the Flexburns, 
what do you think. After heating with the Defiant or Encore Flexburns, any pros and/or cons ? 
Can any maker with past problems and bad reps recover ?  
Will BKVP go to work for HHT ?


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## Dobish (Mar 26, 2018)

Cast Iron, I have given my feedback. I feel like there are only a few of us that are on this forum that are using the newer 2n1, and they are relatively new. Mine was installed 3 years ago.

Since you are specifically asking about these stoves (there are a few other threads about the 2040 if you do a search), I will give you my feedback:

The stove heats up nice, but I have never really been forced to open my windows. That being said;
I engage my cat when it is up to temp, or maybe a little early
I live in a very drafty house with poor air movement and a bizarre layout (1900 sq ft)
I burn a mix of woods, but Elm is about the highest BTU wood that i've thrown at it. 

Burn times vary depending on outside temps, airflow, and wood type
I load my stove the same every time- about 2/3 of the way
with the cat not engaged, I am looking at going through a load of wood in about 2 hours
with the cat engaged, and air 1/2 closed, I am looking anywhere between 5 hours for pine/aspen combo to 9 hours with Elm

Issues I have encountered
Glass gets super dirty if the wood is sub par
cat will not engage if wood is sub par (i have found 15% burns great, 18% not so much), it will stall out
Cracked CAT. I pulled my cat one day, and it was cracked. I called VC and they referred me to my dealer, who replaced it under warranty. I had to wait about 3 weeks for it, but the old cat still worked.
Damper Lever- My damper lever has somehow reversed itself, so instead of being on the bottom and pulling it forwards and backwards (like a pendulum), it now is on the top, so it is more like a lever, less like a pendulum. I have not torn it apart to get it back to how it should be, it actually seems to be easier to me.  Damper still closes all the way
creosote buildup- i clean my chimney 2-3 times a season, and if you are burning sub par wood, or temps too low, I have noticed a lot of creosote. Again, user error/ improper training for those throwing things in the fire, and sub par wood. I just cleaned it a few months ago, and am only burning really low MC wood, so we will see if that makes a difference.
it is heavy and I had to try and unload it from my truck without any assistance.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 26, 2018)

I've used the Encore flex burn for about 6 weeks now.  The stove was made in February 17'.  It was a year old in the crate when I bought it from the dealer.  This model was made apparently a few months or maybe more after HHT changed the size of the porcelain access panel to make it thicker than the one before due to the panel apparently breaking frequently on the older ones.  With that said, my access panel still did not fit properly and was too small by about 3/16" all the way around and nearly fell back out into the stove because of this.  The other issue was that puff backs can happen easily when there is too much small wood stacked in the stove whereby it will tend to all "off gas" at once and the gases ignite at the top of the stove under the griddle.  This causes a positive pressure and will leak smoke out the griddle gasket and some other gasket if intense enough.  The combustor is small enough that regardless of the draft the ignited gases can't pass through the combuster/catalyst fast enough as it is actually a "choke point" by design for the catalyst to operate properly.  I consider this a design flaw that needs to be corrected somehow.  No matter what kind, size or amount of wood you can stuff in there it should be able to cause this problem if there is adequate draft IMO.  

After reading and re-reading the owners manual and lots of advise in this forum (thanks!) I have been able to work around these issues strickly adhearing to the directions with getting a good bed of coals started, then some bigger wood, then some big wood with the right moisture content, I have then had few problems.  As I've said before if you take any one of these out of the "equation" including a really good draft, you will have problems.  Stay with the "equation" it runs well.  I am resolving the panel issue so I'm not though that into the mix at the end of the day.  I like the top load and ash removal system.  Again playing by the rules it will hold a fire overnight enough so that in the morning after 8 hours the fire is easily restarted from the coals left (Mulberry and Walnut).  Getting back to the puffbacking, I've also been told that lots of small wood instead of big wood actually creates more surface area for off gassing and hence the problem with the puffbacking.  Size matters!  I guess all the catalytic stoves have this same basic concept of routing the smoke though a choking diaphragm of some sort where a catalyst would be located to effect the after burn required for the emissions.  

So Cast Iron, If you chose the VC 2in1 make sure the access panel to the catalyst fits properly, adhere by the "rules" set forth in the manual and per above and I think you will have no problem.  Just to be specific about the big wood though, I'm talking about 6" - 8".  Can squeeze it in there is best.  Anyways this is my two cents worth on this.  Wish I would have done a little more research, might have gotten a different stove but might not have.  The Encore, I'll keep at least into the next year and maybe get it/me dialed in more operating it.  I'll leave with this.  The manual says that operating this stove is an "art not a science".  I just have to disagree with that given all the specific parameters it takes to operate it as designed.  Kevin.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 27, 2018)

Confession: the 15+ year old Oslo to be replaced by ( almost deciding  ) a 'new/improved' VC Flexburn has been abused.
To you Jotul Oslo owners, DON"T CRACK THE ASH DOOR OPEN  for firing. It will crack the top plate as we know too well.
Also, the enamel stoves don't need the yearly painting. look better long term, worth the extra money, clean up easy, which we did not do.
Cheap at the time the Oslo came.


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## bholler (Mar 27, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Confession: the 15+ year old Oslo to be replaced by ( almost deciding  ) a 'new/improved' VC Flexburn has been abused.
> To you Jotul Oslo owners, DON"T CRACK THE ASH DOOR OPEN  for firing. It will crack the top plate as we know too well.
> Also, the enamel stoves don't need the yearly painting. look better long term, worth the extra money, clean up easy, which we did not do.
> Cheap at the time the Oslo came.


Non enamel stoves dont need painted every year or even every 5 years.   Unless you boil water on them.  Which can be hard on enamel to.

And you killed an oslo which are pretty bulletproof stoves and now you are getting a vc???   Again good luck.


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## begreen (Mar 27, 2018)

The paint on cast iron stoves can dull down and look kind of lackluster after 2-3 years. It's not necessary to repaint them, but I did with our old Resolute. I repainted a 10yr old Avalon I sold last fall for the same reason. The stove wasn't abused in any way, but the paint had become dull.  It's why I bought enameled Jotuls. Our 1984 F602 still looks good with just a wipe down with a damp rag. The paint on cast iron jacketed stoves does not get as hot. I am pleased that after almost 10 yrs. the paint on the T6 still looks pretty good.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 27, 2018)

The cast and steel stoves had over the years all become "splotchy" and dull after a season of hard burning. Any cook or wood stove will do the same if used hard. I made the dumb move using stove black once, only once. Drove us and dog and kids out of the house at the first fire. The original VC Vigilant ( great design WITH a secondary air flap), did look bad after each year of heat. Hi temp engine paint lasted just awhile. Then a Lange in red enamel, and the Begreen Jotul 602 in green porcelain stepped in for spares.
The cracked Oslo will go somewhere nice. It needs other parts too.
BKVP: where is that blue/black or red enamel top loading Ashford ? She wants one.


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## bholler (Mar 27, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> The cast and steel stoves had over the years all become "splotchy" and dull after a season of hard burning. Any cook or wood stove will do the same if used hard. I made the dumb move using stove black once, only once. Drove us and dog and kids out of the house at the first fire. The original VC Vigilant ( great design WITH a secondary air flap), did look bad after each year of heat. Hi temp engine paint lasted just awhile. Then a Lange in red enamel, and the Begreen Jotul 602 in green porcelain stepped in for spares.
> The cracked Oslo will go somewhere nice. It needs other parts too.
> BKVP: where is that blue/black or red enamel top loading Ashford ? She wants one.


I find that they really only get splotchy if they are over fired.  Yes the top will usually be a little duller than the sides but I just repainted my 8 year old regency and that was only because we moved and I figured I should do it while it was outside.  Yes they do dull with heat but it should be pretty even dulling and shouldn't look bad unless you are over firing it.

One thing is the quality of paint.  Engine paint and the cheaper stuff like high heat rustolium wont last long no but if you get good stuff like stove brite or aw perkins paint it will last al long time.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 28, 2018)

Thx for all the advice from the VC owners and rebuilders of  VC stoves. Learned a lot from you. Too bad that VC has a tough road ahead to restore its rep, but few  companies that failed ( like GM, Japanese/S. Korean cars  ) can re-do service and quality standards and get a good name back. 
The suggestion to find a reliable dealer makes sense  for any warranty stuff , may have found one. So far all the detailed research may pay off IF and when we get the Flexburn in enamel ( called "Twilight", actually blue/black) since looks are important. The stove is an appliance in the living room, not hidden away in a dingy, spider webbed cellar. Who want to heat dirt around the foundation ? Put the stove where you spend time with the kids.....and wife, of course. 
Stove to be ordered when it gets some warm in northern N.E.......maybe June ?


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## Diabel (Mar 28, 2018)

It has been relatively warm (mainly solar gain) here for the past few days. I got lazy and let the furnace stretch its legs. 

But also, for the past week when opening the top load I would get a bit of smoke escape into the room. Plus, on occasion I would hear creo falling down the flue. 
It was time to look into the chimney (I cleaned the pipe mid Dec). In the past I would always get couple of cups of brown powder and a bit of black sticky stuff around the cap. This time, to my surprise the cap was pretty clean but just below about 3-4' down from the cap the creo was pretty black and sticky, the rest of the pipe down brown and flaky. Plus, I did not measure but it looks like there was quite a bit more stuff.

The cat is 4 years old ( it looks all in one piece) but I think it is on its last season.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 28, 2018)

Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or -  burning. 
Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.


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## Diabel (Mar 28, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or -  burning.
> Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.



I believe it is a prorated warranty


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## bholler (Mar 28, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Cats are supposed to last about 12K hours + or -  burning.
> Yes, I do wonder if the 1/2 thick cat in the 'new' Flexburn will last as long. HHT/VC WILL warranty the cat for 3 years.


And they wont if they determine it was damaged by abuse or misuse.

And that 12k hours is only 500 days.  It would not be hard at all to rwach that before 3 years.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 29, 2018)

The Flexburn/HHT/VC cat is warrantied ( no prorating ) for 36 months free replacement. Then prorated for the remainder of 6 years.
Not too bad compared with Condor or other cat makers for example.
The wear timespan for the cats is about 12,000 hours, the usual 2 years for northern heating.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 29, 2018)

Dealers say that HHT/VC has been fast and easy on any warranty claims for their customers....I checked. This including cats.


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## bholler (Mar 29, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> The Flexburn/HHT/VC cat is warrantied ( no prorating ) for 36 months free replacement. Then prorated for the remainder of 6 years.
> Not too bad compared with Condor or other cat makers for example.
> The wear timespan for the cats is about 12,000 hours, the usual 2 years for northern heating.


That is similar warranty to most other cat stoves on the market.  Which is good. But it doest cover anything caused by what they deem to be abuse or misuse.  It slso only covers the first cat in most cases.  But i dont know that for sure with vc i would check that if i were you.  

And to be clear vc doesnt make their cats they are probably from condor.


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## bholler (Mar 29, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Dealers say that HHT/VC has been fast and easy on any warranty claims for their customers....I checked. This including cats.


That is not at all what we experinced with either of the vc dealers we deal with.  Or the quad dealers or the harman dealers all hht products.  I dont know mayby vermont dealers get better service.  Or your dealer is stretching the truth to make the sale.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 30, 2018)

Summing up the HHT/VC Flexburn 2in1 latest stoves from your time* using* or *actually fixing* one of them FROM THE PAST 3 Years that they have been  in the market. 
Worth getting one with the specs mandated by the boss as above ? 
Skip the mistakes of the former owners and makers of past VC before HHT took over. We know all that. 
Yes, I know that BK stoves are great and will even produce miracles...but.....I need to obey.


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 30, 2018)

Cast Iron, thoroughly inspect the access panel fitting of your new stove at the dealer.  Make sure the stove they show you on display is a current model and not one five years old or so that is not the same (my dealer).  If it doesn't fit right ask why and what is the problem.  If you have this issue on your stove PLEASE advise what they say about it.  I think you will be okay with the stove but you MUST follow the "rules of engagement" specifically as outlined in previous post and the owner's manual.  No variation or you will have problems. Except for the access panel and figuring out the puff backs I was getting the stove otherwise runs well.  Again very specific parameters on how it must be operated make no mistake.  Please keep us posted on your purchase and findings.  Thanks, Kevin


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## Cast Iron (Mar 30, 2018)

Good advice Kev....appreciated, will do.
Have not read about "rules of engagement" since OCS, long ago!


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 30, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Good advice Kev....appreciated, will do.
> Have not read about "rules of engagement" since OCS, long ago!


 
Ha, sorry my father was Military.  One other thing, don't expect the glass to stay anywhere near clean no matter how hot you get the fire.  At least this has been my experience thus far.  Dealers I visited though told me this before purchase.  Some of the creosote will burn off some but nowhere near all of it.  Not that big a deal to me but wifey likes to see flames.  Another plus though the cat in these seem to light off easily and perform well.  I've been able to run the griddle at 350 with the cat well into the operating range on the probe (not graduated in degrees).  I think they call this running off the cat.   I found that impressive.  Also found by trying to get the stove to run this way increases puff back conditions.  Kevin


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## SculptureOfSound (Apr 10, 2018)

Well, looks like I get to be part of this thread now as an OWNER rather than just a pest asking questions. Oh wait, I'm sure I'll still have lots of questions, ha!

I just snapped up a used Montpelier that is in really good condition for a steal of a price. Full story is here if you want to read it (so psyched atm that I just have to share!) https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/i-finally-own-an-insert.168454/


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## Diabel (Apr 10, 2018)

Welcome to the VC thread and the forum.

It has been very quite here......stoves must be running just right and/or people are is a shut down mode for the season. 

April has been very cold here, I am still doing a fire every morning and a second load in the afternoon. Small loads of hemlock, it keeps the house warm until the next morning pretty much (some help from NG here and there in the morning).


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## begreen (Apr 10, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Confession: the 15+ year old Oslo to be replaced by ( almost deciding  ) a 'new/improved' VC Flexburn has been abused.
> To you Jotul Oslo owners, DON"T CRACK THE ASH DOOR OPEN  for firing. It will crack the top plate as we know too well.
> Also, the enamel stoves don't need the yearly painting. look better long term, worth the extra money, clean up easy, which we did not do.
> Cheap at the time the Oslo came.


More commonly it cracks the base due to the extreme temperature difference in the base vs the grate area. Look for hairline cracks like this.


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## Kevin Weis (Apr 16, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Welcome to the VC thread and the forum.
> 
> It has been very quite here......stoves must be running just right and/or people are is a shut down mode for the season.
> 
> April has been very cold here, I am still doing a fire every morning and a second load in the afternoon. Small loads of hemlock, it keeps the house warm until the next morning pretty much (some help from NG here and there in the morning).



Two days in the 80's here then back now into the 40's.  Got to clean out the 2 & 1 and now burning again.  Looks like below normal now till the end of the month they say.  Means 30's - 50's here.  Got enough wood to last till then.


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## Dobish (Apr 25, 2018)

our weather has been all over the place, but we are still burning strong!


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## Diabel (Apr 25, 2018)

Mine has been cold since last Sat. I might have a fire tonight though. Raining and damp outside.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Apr 25, 2018)

We had a small one going last night for a couple of hours.... looks like were done now till late October beginning of November


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## Cast Iron (May 14, 2018)

HHT the holder of Vermont Castings never had their new Flexburns EPA certified for efficiency. Many states offer rebates for higher efficiency wood stoves.
So, some of you anti VC people have a point on the "new, improved" VC/HHT. I am frankly %#$@&$ ( aka not pleased).


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## begreen (May 14, 2018)

The Flexburn 2040 testing (and the other VC stoves) are listed under Vermont Castings in the EPA certifications. Is that not sufficient for VT?


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## bholler (May 14, 2018)

Yeah i dont get that it is not a new stove from hht it was made before that change i dont see why it would need retested just because the ownership changed.


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## Dobish (May 14, 2018)

colorado didn't even ask me for any verification except for the user manual...


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## Cast Iron (May 15, 2018)

NO.


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## bholler (May 15, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> NO.


No what?


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## begreen (May 15, 2018)

Assuming no VT rebate. What is the VT program that the VC 2040 is ineligible for?


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## bilvihur (Jun 7, 2018)

10 year old VC Resolute Acclaim. In a prior post I asked about repairing fire brick, and it was suggested that I look for other problems. It turned out that my combustion package was shot also. I found one on ebay for 2/3 of what the dealer wanted. Problem is that I haven't found any instructions on how to go about rebuilding. It looks like it will fit in from the front without any disassembly, but what holds in in place (eg furnace cement, etc)? Does it need any gasket? Thanks.


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## begreen (Jun 7, 2018)

bilvihur said:


> 10 year old VC Resolute Acclaim. In a prior post I asked about repairing fire brick, and it was suggested that I look for other problems. It turned out that my combustion package was shot also. I found one on ebay for 2/3 of what the dealer wanted. Problem is that I haven't found any instructions on how to go about rebuilding. It looks like it will fit in from the front without any disassembly, but what holds in in place (eg furnace cement, etc)? Does it need any gasket? Thanks.


@defiant3


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## bilvihur (Jun 13, 2018)

Anyone have advice on installing the new combustion package?


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## Diabel (Jun 13, 2018)

bilvihur said:


> Anyone have advice on installing the new combustion package?




Instructions will be stove specific. You have to indicate what VC product you have.


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## begreen (Jun 13, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Instructions will be stove specific. You have to indicate what VC product you have.


10 year old VC Resolute Acclaim


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## defiant3 (Jun 15, 2018)

bilvihur said:


> 10 year old VC Resolute Acclaim. In a prior post I asked about repairing fire brick, and it was suggested that I look for other problems. It turned out that my combustion package was shot also. I found one on ebay for 2/3 of what the dealer wanted. Problem is that I haven't found any instructions on how to go about rebuilding. It looks like it will fit in from the front without any disassembly, but what holds in in place (eg furnace cement, etc)? Does it need any gasket? Thanks.


You must remove the cover plates and upper fireback assembly. Your localdealer or V.C. may actually be able to provide some help. These days there seems to be tech. support .  Sort of...


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## Dobish (Aug 8, 2018)

does anyone have anything special they use to keep their chimney tailings from going behind the secondary?  Its not really that big of a deal, but you have to dig them out again.


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## Diabel (Aug 9, 2018)

I use a cereal box with two of the sides cut out and a thin piece of glued plywood to the bottom. It slides nicely in, catches 90% of the crud. I still run the shop vac at the end in order to get into each side of the refractory box.


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## SculptureOfSound (Aug 19, 2018)

Took a pic of the Montpelier  air inlet holes above the air wash piece while disassembling and painting today.

Pics taken with air fully open (holes don't fully open) and fully closed. Maybe someone will find it useful or interesting


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 19, 2018)

Yo... whats up all my VC friends


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## Dobish (Aug 20, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Yo... whats up all my VC friends



i got up on the roof the other day and reapplied silicone around my storm collar. Also, it was below 80º over the weekend, so that was nice.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 20, 2018)

Dobish said:


> i got up on the roof the other day and reapplied silicone around my storm collar. Also, it was below 80º over the weekend, so that was nice.



Looks as if the weather here has finally broke... not sooooo hot not sooo humid... somthing like 55 to 60 days till the stove gets lit... super looking forward to it.. im so ready for fall.. as i sit here on the beach for summer vacation overlooking the ocean


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## Diabel (Aug 20, 2018)

Winter is coming


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## Diabel (Aug 20, 2018)




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## RandyBoBandy (Aug 27, 2018)

Forecast here in lower mi.... 90 for the next 2 days. Which means humid and miserable


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## begreen (Aug 27, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Forecast here in lower mi.... 90 for the next 2 days. Which means humid and miserable


Yes, looks like most of the east coast is about to get hot for 2-3 days. Still 58º here @9:30am.


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## bilvihur (Aug 27, 2018)

defiant3 said:


> You must remove the cover plates and upper fireback assembly. Your localdealer or V.C. may actually be able to provide some help. These days there seems to be tech. support .  Sort of...



I found out that the combustion package is simply held in place by the upper fireback. Now I would like to replace the gasket between the fireback and the underside of the top plate.  This would be a lot easier if I could take the top plate off, but I can't find any fasteners. Is it possible the top plate in the VC Resolute Acclaim is pressed or cemented on?


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## Diabel (Aug 27, 2018)

I am itching to light a fire in my new stove (VC will stay asleep few weeks longer), but 43*C with humidex for tomorrow tell me otherwise.......


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## RandyBoBandy (Aug 28, 2018)

I am anxious to start burning again As well. I’m tired of the heat of the summer. I work outside everyday and have had my fill of 80-90 degree weather. However, as ready as I am for the burn season my stove and chimney are not. I have lots of maintenance to do and little time to do it.


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## Diabel (Sep 20, 2018)

Woke up to a drizzle and 55 this morning. I might have a fire this eve. However, the forecast calls for 82 for tomorrow....and then a solid dip to high 50s for the weekend. I will be at the lake this weekend so no fire in the Encore. But i will finally get a chance to break in the Princess.


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## jharkin (Sep 22, 2018)

Hi guys... just thought I'd pop in to say Hi....
....and let you know Im not dead.  Just had a realllllllly rough year and haven't had time to think about burning or this place in a long time.

Are we starting up a new 18/19 thread?    Not that Im anywhere close, we only turned hte AC off a couple days ago.


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## RandyBoBandy (Sep 23, 2018)

jharkin said:


> Hi guys... just thought I'd pop in to say Hi....
> ....and let you know Im not dead.  Just had a realllllllly rough year and haven't had time to think about burning or this place in a long time.
> 
> Are we starting up a new 18/19 thread?    Not that Im anywhere close, we only turned hte AC off a couple days ago.


Glad to see you’re back. I think someone should fire up the 18/19 thread.


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## Dobish (Sep 24, 2018)

New thread here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2018-19-vc-owners-thread.169911/


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