# Overhead Garage Door - Fix it again or junk it?



## Don2222 (May 7, 2013)

Hello

I added that support board on the bottom inside a few years back.

What is the R value of a 1/4" plywood panel? So Now what?

Just found this! R value of 1/4" plywood = 0.31 ! ! ! LOL
http://www.coloradoenergy.org/procorner/stuff/r-values.htm

See pics
Click to Enlarge


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## Gary_602z (May 7, 2013)

Insulated aluminum and never look back! You are welcome!

Gary


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## Don2222 (May 7, 2013)

Gary_602z said:


> Insulated aluminum and never look back! You are welcome!
> 
> Gary


 
No steel?

*Steel Garage Doors*
Steel is the most popular material used for garage doors today because of its durability. Steel will look great forever and is virtually maintenance-free.

It also has the advantage of being the least expensive garage door you can buy. If you're looking to add even more curb appeal, a Steel Door in Carriage House Style like the one pictured, might be just what you're looking for...

Steel doors can be made to be very well insulated and minimize air infiltration which is really important if your garage is attached to your home.

Amarr® & General Doors® can make your home warmer.

*Aluminum Garage Doors*
Aluminum Garage doors are a good choice for the demanding buyer. They offer superior insulation, a wide range of colors, and are a good choice for people who live by the ocean or other corrosive environments.

*Wood Carriage House Doors*
Carriage house doors can radically beautify your home. Because so much of your home's facade may be the garage itself, new garage doors can dramatically enhance the style of your home. These doors increase the curb appeal of your home so much that real estate studies have shown they increase the value of your house. But that's not the real reason to have them... the real reason is just how much you'll love the way the exterior of your home looks... and if the neighbors are a little jealous, well, that just can't be helped.

*Wood-Composite Garage Doors*
are just above steel in terms of price. They come primed and ready to paint with a limited lifetime warranty. People buy wood-composite primarily for 3 reasons: because it needs to be painted it is easily customized to fit the home's color scheme. The second is that once it is painted it does not require the maintenance a wood door will. Nor will it crack, split, swell or warp like wood can. And lastly, this environmentally friendly door is made mostly from recycled material so it is the "greenest of garage doors."


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## heat seeker (May 8, 2013)

It's time. I really like the insulated aluminum doors I bought. The garage is much warmer, which means less heat loss from the house.


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## TMonter (May 8, 2013)

I have an insulated steel door by Wayne Dalton and I have no complaints. I got rid of my old wood door (16' door) a few years back. I love that the Wayne Dalton door springs can be changed with hand tools and a drill, although in the past 8 years I haven't had to change a spring yet.


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## woodgeek (May 8, 2013)

My two 50 y.o. doors are steel angle frame with 1/8" masonite panels! I glued 1" poly-iso (thermax for fire code) inside, and effectively got two R-6 doors for <$100

And the garage is ~10°F warmer in January.


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## jdp1152 (May 8, 2013)

I'd like to make my own doors but have found a lack of plans online


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## nate379 (May 8, 2013)

I bet that door really holds in the heat when it's -30* outside huh?!  I usually keep the garage at 50-55* in the winter.


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## TheMightyMoe (May 8, 2013)

I'd do a new one, if you don't have other problems.

My door is wood, sealed tight, and is covered in R-19. Garage is just latantly heated by the house though, rarely need to turn the slab heat on.


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## nate379 (May 8, 2013)

Same, though it does kick on when I pull the car in and out just from all the warm air rushing out (18x8ft door)


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## TheMightyMoe (May 8, 2013)

I got a thermostat that is set to 38* just in case. Never seen it drop that low just from a quick in and out, if it did kick on I'd have a on-delay relay wired in. Short cycling boilers get me angry, especially since it'd be pulling in 50* degree slab glycol. Mine is a 2 car door as well.


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## Don2222 (May 9, 2013)

Hello

Well, Since they just went on sale, I broke down and ordered a Clopay. 27 Gauge Steel on each side and R18.4 Intelicore foam inside! See Home Depot's http://www.homedepot.com/Doors-Wind...=10053&Nu=P_PARENT_ID&langId=-1&storeId=10051


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## Don2222 (Jun 15, 2013)

Hello

New door is coming this Tuesday! HD said it would take 3 weeks. Almost 6 weeks! Twice as long!

It is a HDP20 Premium series 2" thick R18.4

27 gauge steel skins and insulation are pressure bonded for durable, secure, quiet operation.
• 2" thick polyurethane foamed-in-place insulation with silicone filled thermal break provides
superior energy efficiency 18.4 R-value*
• Hot-dipped galvanized steel skin with a baked-on primer and top coat helps assure durability
and long-lasting beauty
• Nylon rollers for durable, smooth, long-lasting performance.
• Patented Safe-T-Bracket® designed for added safety; under normal circumstances it cannot
be removed while the door is under tension
• Tongue-and-groove joints and bottom weatherseal in a rust-proof aluminum retainer helps
seal out the elements
• 12" radius track for normal installations. 15" radius track available.
• Extension springs standard on all single doors (up to and including 10' wide). EZ-SET®
torsion springs standard on double doors (greater than 10' wide)
• Inside slide lock is standard, outside keyed lock available (at additional charge).
• Operator reinforcement bracket is standard.
• Woodgrain texture raised panel and flush designs may be painted with a high quality exterior
latex paint to complement any home’s exterior
• Prefinished white end stiles and interior steel provide a clean and finished appearance.
• Models HDP20 and HDPF20 available in 2" increments from 6'2" to 20' wide.
• Model HDPL20 available in 2" increments from 8' to 20' wide.
• Available in heights from 6' to 12' in 3" increments (excluding 7'3").
• For high lift track applications please call Clopay customer service.
• For doors sold through Home Depot’s Expert Installation Program, the springing systems
and locking systems may vary by market
• Doors ordered in white unless a color is specified.
*Calculated door section R-value is in accordance with DASMA TDS-163


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## Don2222 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hello

New door was installed in 1 hr and 15 mins! The same Sears garage door opener was used and the alarm magnetic contact switch was put on the new door.

I like the new 2 track system over the old single track. The door is smoother and not as noisy going up and down.

See my question on how close should it be to door frame?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...etween-door-and-frame-should-there-be.110749/

See new door pics below


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## Don2222 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hello

The new garage door I got is R18.4 which is great, but if the cold comes in all around it that is not so good! This may be a dumb question but how much of a gap between the door and the door frame should there be?

Yes there is a strip of insulation that stops the cold wind. I may be wrong but it just seems the original door was closer to the door frame. The new door certainly has an adjustment to make it closer but my door and another neighbor's door seemed to be put in the same way.

I am measuring a little less than 1/2" approx 6/16" or 7 /16" - Should it be adjusted less?
This may be a dumb question but how much of a gap between the door and the door frame should there be?

See my thread on getting a new garage door.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/overhead-garage-door-fix-it-again-or-junk-it.109612/

Click pic below to enlarge and See Pic 1 yellow arrows about the gap I am talking about before the weather stropping was installed.

Also see adjustment holes in track mounting bracket in Pic 2 for closer to door frame mounting?


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## woodgeek (Jun 18, 2013)

Don, this depends on how thick the weather stripping is...if you are getting a good seal, call it done!  IF not, the installer effed up, and you should make him come back.


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## Don2222 (Jun 18, 2013)

Hello

Is it me or are these new items not compatible or just too darn complicated?

The new Home Depot Clopay OverHead garage door is great but the double track system with the pulley mounted farther back and the big L bracket hanging over the track makes the mounting safety almost impossible!

The door will not close if the safety eye is not connected or even jumped out. Is there a way to jump it or not connect it? I could not see one?

I went back to 'Sears and got the special extension kit @#$@ ! ! !

The mounting options are
1. (Preferred) Clipped onto the left and right garage door tracks. -- Won't work because wire clip heats eye!
2. Fasten to Wall on each side of Garage Door (Wall board is not very strong!)
3. Fasten to floor - Concrete Anchors and Wood Blocks or extensions brackets will be needed.
   I really do not like this option because with the extension brackets the max height off the floor is 7 inches. I want the eye to be 18 inches off the floor which is the standard height of car bumpers. This makes these devices a little more useful because the door will not close if the car is not all the way in!

Therefore option 2 is the only option for me. I pulled off the wallboard and found mold growing on the bottom inside. Prpbably from the water coming in from the old door! Then I found newspapers as the only insulation against the cinder block wall! So I pulled out the paper dated 1963 when the house was built! See pic and put in some nice Roxsul rock wool insulation.

Then I cut a piece of plywood which is strong enough to screw the darn eye into!

*Is there any easier way? Now I have to put the transmitter in on the otherside!*

See pics below
Click to Enlarge:


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## Don2222 (Jun 18, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Don, this depends on how thick the weather stripping is...if you are getting a good seal, call it done! IF not, the installer effed up, and you should make him come back.


 

Yes, the weather strip covers it but it could be closer.

Still not done until everything works!
See > https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ears-opener-safety-eye-saga-continues.110762/


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## heat seeker (Jun 19, 2013)

I mounted mine about 2 ½ feet off the floor so that the car body will block the beam, just in case I don't pull in quite all the way. That might not be a good idea if you have small children or pets around.

I have seen the eyes mounted on a board  a few inches apart, mounted on the ceiling. It works, but eliminates a good safety feature - I don't recommend it!


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## stee6043 (Jun 19, 2013)

Looks like that Craftsman is a rebranded Chamberlain (like a lot of others I assume) based on those photoeye mounts.  I installed two openers last year but was fortunate enough to be able to slide the clips over the tracks like you mentioned above. 

Why can't you clip over the track?  Can't you relocate the wire clip?  This way of mounting is very easy.

The wiring can be a pain if it wasn't there to begin with.  But you should only have to do it once, if that's an consolation.


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## Butcher (Jun 19, 2013)

Why is your cable so far away from the door jamb? Every door I've ever installed the cable ran up along side the door track.


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## Don2222 (Jun 19, 2013)

stee6043 said:


> Looks like that Craftsman is a rebranded Chamberlain (like a lot of others I assume) based on those photoeye mounts. I installed two openers last year but was fortunate enough to be able to slide the clips over the tracks like you mentioned above.
> 
> Why can't you clip over the track? Can't you relocate the wire clip? This way of mounting is very easy.
> 
> The wiring can be a pain if it wasn't there to begin with. But you should only have to do it once, if that's an consolation.


 

As you can see from the pic, that stupid bracket that is riveted to the bottom door panel that the pully wire is connected to just barely clears the electric eye being minted on the wall. I tried it on the track and the bracket just hits it and pulls it up!

I put pressure treated 15/32" plywood on the wall and it comes in even with the wall board so when I paint it the same color it will blend in nice.

Click to Enlarge:


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## Don2222 (Jun 19, 2013)

Butcher said:


> Why is your cable so far away from the door jamb? Every door I've ever installed the cable ran up along side the door track.


 

This is the Home Depot Clopay's new fancy design overhead garage door with the 2 track system which is quieter and supposedly better!

It is the only door that is R18.4, the other stores like Lowe's had R9 or R6. I said you guys do not even come close!

Sears has one that is about R19 but they will not install therefore sell it in our area!

Click pic to enlarge:


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## Don2222 (Jun 19, 2013)

Hello

Well the other side mounting of the electric eye really went slow because I removed the wall board and saw all the mold on the back of the wallboard and termite damaged 2x4s ! ! !

I cut out the bad wood and removed the bad wallboard, then cleaned it up and put silicone in the crack in the corner and where the block wall meets the concrete floor!

So I went to home depot and got a 2x4x14 - $6.00 and a 4x8 sheet of 15/32" PT plywood for $30.00. The plywood thickness is the same as the sheet rock so it comes out event and when painted will blend it but be stronger and not mold or get termites in any paper backing.

The Roxsul rock wool insulation should be better than the 50 y/o newspapers!

It is now mounted and tested. The door still works and if I break the beam on the way down it stops!

I had to putty all the old holes from the old track and still have to run the wires!


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## heat seeker (Jun 19, 2013)

I have that double track system for my shed door. It's used when there is limited overhead clearance for the door, as in my shed. Why they have it on your setup puzzles me.


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## Don2222 (Jun 19, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> I have that double track system for my shed door. It's used when there is limited overhead clearance for the door, as in my shed. Why they have it on your setup puzzles me.


 

I have limited room overhead in this garage too. the double track system works much better and smoother so I am glad to have it.

I painted the plywood tonight so I can put the electric eye on permanent now after it dries overnight.


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## Don2222 (Jun 20, 2013)

Hello

Got the new wall portion painted, luckily I had the same original paint!

The old electric eye looks ancient even though it was one of the 1st LED models. LOL

Now I can put both mounting bolts in the electric eye extension bracket.
Lost a day rebuilding the damaged studs and mold on the old wallboard but with the electric eye bolted into 15/32" PT plywood it is secure and will not fall. LOL

It is approx 18" off the floor which is standard bumper height so all of the car must be in the garage before it closes. I had it lower like it recommends in the manual before. The car was just barely in the garage and the door handle scraped the paint on the back before it hit the bumper and reversed!

At 18" it will not happen again!


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## woodgeek (Jun 20, 2013)

Personally, I'd hang a tennis ball on a string so it hits the windshield where I want to park (if I had a short garage), rather than use the 'eye'. Using the eye motivates you to start closing the door before you shut the car off, not ideal, so you don't have to restart it if you are not parked in the right place.

The lower eye height is recc'ed in case there is a child laying on the floor, who might be injured by the force required to trigger the autoreverse. Why there would be children laying there...I dunno. Grandkids playing unsupervised?


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## Don2222 (Jun 20, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> Personally, I'd hang a tennis ball on a string so it hits the windshield where I want to park (if I had a short garage), rather than use the 'eye'. Using the eye motivates you to start closing the door before you shut the car off, not ideal, so you don't have to restart it if you are not parked in the right place.
> 
> The lower eye height is recc'ed in case there is a child laying on the floor, who might be injured by the force required to trigger the autoreverse. Why there would be children laying there...I dunno. Grandkids playing unsupervised?


 

I do like the idea of a tennis ball. I had one but it fell down. It does wok well.
No small kids or grand kids around here.


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## Don2222 (Jun 20, 2013)

Hello

Finished the final safety eye wiring today!
I put a wire tie on the base of the extension bracket to hold the wire firm. Then went up the wall and behind the stud. Then behind the small wall on the right side into the closet that holds the oil tank. Then along the ceiling joist up to the door to the garage and then back into the garage and down to right above the door opener unit.

I ran both wires from each electric eye unit. I could have spliced them into the old wiring, but these wires were heavier and it is better to have no splicing! Only took several hours to complete! See pics

Glad that job is done!

Manual states you can use a good quality car wax to keep the exterior protected against bad weather! ! !

Does anyone wax their garage door when they wax their car? ? ?


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## heat seeker (Jun 21, 2013)

Naw, I don't wax either door or car. My doors are powder-coated aluminum, should be a pretty durable finish. No chalking yet, three years old.


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## Don2222 (Jun 21, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> Naw, I don't wax either door or car. My doors are powder-coated aluminum, should be a pretty durable finish. No chalking yet, three years old.


 

That's good.

Here is a nice video showing a 0.5 msec pulse with a 6 msec period approx 6.0 volts high that goes thru the safety eye. So a jumper will not replace that pulse therefore the only way to jump it, is to build an oscillator circuit just like that!

There is a trick of holding the button in to force the door to go down without the sensor connected but it may not work on all models of door openers. If you jump terminals 1 and 2 that will force the door to go down without the sensors.

In fact, there is a specific trouble code that is given when the wires to the IR are shorted or open.

Internally on the PC board, this "Protection System" is part of the processor that also controls the motor. The safety features must be present for the motor to operate, else you are returned with an LED error code:

# flashes - Problem
1-The Protector System wire open or totally misaligned
2-The Protector System wire shorted or black/white wire reversal
3-Door Control or Multi-Function control Panel wire shorted
4-IR sensor slightly misaligned (dim or flashing sensor LED)
5-Motor overheated/Possible RPM sensor failure -- unplug to reset
6-Motor circuit failure -- replace RX/LX board 
Rapid-Chamberlain transmitter with the correct format code being received
(opener not necessarily programmed to respond)

I would guess that you may thank the manufacturers association attorneys and the litigious good citizens of our country for this "protection" from ourselves.


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## heat seeker (Jun 21, 2013)

That's an excellent demonstration of what goes on there! Thanks for posting!
My openers give a text messages on the switch module, such as sensors misaligned (also if something blocks the sensors for a while), low battery (the openers have internal batteries to operate the door during power failure), and who knows what else. The opener itself has LEDs that indicate whether it's charging the battery, etc. It's a far cry from the old style openers that worked with simple transmitters. These new ones have rolling codes to foil illicit openers, also. Oh yeah - it the door's been open a while, the lights go out. But, if something breaks the beam (like someone entering the garage) the lights go on for a while again. The lights will also go on if you enter the garage with the door closed, due to a motion sensor in the switch module.

What I really wish it would do is clean the bugs off my windshield!


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## TheMightyMoe (Jun 21, 2013)

Brush weather stripping is the way to go.


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## Don2222 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hello





TheMightyMoe said:


> Brush weather stripping is the way to go.


 

sounds good

Here is the secret to the Intelicore Foam (A nice made up term! LOL) There is a strip of Silicone in the middle of the door that provides a Thermal Break! Mike Do it Right (Holmes on Homes show) would luv this!

That is what boosts the foam to the whopping R18.4 in a 2" Thick Steel Foam insulated door! ! !

See pic below with yellow arrows. I bet the inside of the door will not be cold in the winter!

Click to Enlarge:


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## Don2222 (Jul 7, 2013)

Hello

Nice shot of new door all finished!


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## EastMtn (Jul 7, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> 
> Nice shot of new door all finished!


 
That looks like a picture out of a model home bruchure. Nice job!


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