# 2021-2022 BK everything thread



## Poindexter

It is time.  Sort of.  Does anyone know of an air conditioning unit I can attach to my BK to cool the house down?  A cord wood fired air confitioner?  

We hit +90 dF here yesterday, looking for 87 above today.  The fireweed started blooming again.

Caribou season opens in 7 days, the semi-official start of autumn around here.


----------



## stoveliker

I believe @peakbagger  recently discussed precisely this in a thread: running a cooling system off of wood-provided energy.


----------



## moresnow

Hate to be butchering/hanging meat in that weather! I split for 2hrs today. That was plenty. Hot.


----------



## jetsam

Poindexter said:


> It is time.  Sort of.  Does anyone know of an air conditioning unit I can attach to my BK to cool the house down?  A cord wood fired air confitioner?
> 
> We hit +90 dF here yesterday, looking for 87 above today.  The fireweed started blooming again.
> 
> Caribou season opens in 7 days, the semi-official start of autumn around here.



Talk to @BKVP about getting into the pilot program for the new 20cf Super King that they are developing for me.

In the summer, you can simply move the stove outside,  burn a small fire to power the built-in ice cream maker, and run some insulated duct with an inline duct fan from the ice cream chamber to your living room. Tada!

While you're cutting a hole in the wall for the cooling duct, you may want to consider a second hole for minisplit heat transfer lines, because using the BK ice cream maker in this way will melt your ice cream...


----------



## BKVP

We'll call it the "Interior"!  That's the only place where we'd get any volume in sales.

In Wasilla right now, heading down Kenai Peninsula today....I'll check to see how the bigger "Interior" would sell there.


----------



## Tron

Poindexter said:


> It is time.  Sort of.  Does anyone know of an air conditioning unit I can attach to my BK to cool the house down?  A cord wood fired air confitioner?


Have a look at the invention of one James Watt, that should give you mechanical energy to apply a thermodynamic approach to the principle of  vapor-compression refrigeration. If you look at the temperature-entropy diagram, the implementation should be trivial.
;-)


----------



## BKVP

Kashwitna Lake...fishing looks good...but headed to Homer!


----------



## Nealm66

Tagging in. Definitely not burning season around here yet


----------



## Tron

Not by a long shot. We've just entered the hot'n'steamy season, then it's hurricane season, and at the end of that burning season may eventually start...


----------



## stoveliker

I'm actually looking forward to burning season. Waiting for it. Should have enough wood. (I hope, because I have about 2.5 cords and I won't have more per year in the future.) Going to make an Excel file to record starting dates and temperatures so I can try (...) to make sure that I don't start too early so I won't run out in March cold spells...


----------



## kennyp2339

Going on season 3 with the same cat! It was glowing nice and bright when I had that stove burning memorial day weekend


----------



## MissMac

stoveliker said:


> I'm actually looking forward to burning season. Waiting for it. Should have enough wood. (I hope, because I have about 2.5 cords and I won't have more per year in the future.) Going to make an Excel file to record starting dates and temperatures so I can try (...) to make sure that I don't start too early so I won't run out in March cold spells...


this has happened to me pretty much every year, so now I've bumped up my 3 year rotation so that i have an extra 1.5 cords per year for those cold march/april rains.


----------



## stoveliker

MissMac said:


> this has happened to me pretty much every year, so now I've bumped up my 3 year rotation so that i have an extra 1.5 cords per year for those cold march/april rains.



I wish I could do the same. The wife doesn't allow more after I built my shed this spring. 3 bays, 2.6 cord per bay. The rest will be the minisplit. But it's much nicer to have a fire going on low than having the minisplit run...


----------



## rdust

Here 

Hooked up to NG this off season with a new HE furnace.  About 16 cords split and stacked.  Planning to let the furnace handle some of the lightwork now, I ain’t getting any younger.


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> I'm actually looking forward to burning season. Waiting for it. Should have enough wood. (I hope, because I have about 2.5 cords and I won't have more per year in the future.) Going to make an Excel file to record starting dates and temperatures so I can try (...) to make sure that I don't start too early so I won't run out in March cold spells...


If you have storage room, try to gather 1/2 to 1 more cord of softwood and have it as an emergency stash for March/April.


----------



## MTASH

Spent Saturday cleaning the chimney and tuning up the Ashford.   Re-aligned the door assembly, installed a new gasket and lubed stuff that moves/turns.  Should be good to go.  I figure 6-8 weeks I'll be burning again.  It was 43 this morning.


----------



## Poindexter

I don't quite understand the evolutionary niche of cranes.  I don't understand how a bird like that can arrive on the North Slope in April, eat bugs and bugs and bugs all summer, and then fly south still skinny enough to fly through a shotgun pattern, but they did it again this year, starting three days ago.

The wife has been in wrist to ankle fleecy pajamas for three nights in a row now, and today, the first businesslike V of Canada geese headed south.  When the Canada geese are leaving, it is about to get real.

Cranes just can't stop yammering away at each other flying over, squawk squawk squawk squawk squawk.  The Canada geesa are making time, just the occasional "dress that line" "close up that formation" honks while booking down the road trying to outrun the radio in a police car.

As my kids would say, it is on like Donkey Kong.


----------



## BKVP

And last week it was 85!


----------



## BKVP

Just arrived in Cleveland...hot and HUMID.  We just don't get the humidity in Walla Walla.  Probably some time before I light a fire....Lehman's is my first stop in the a.m.  Great retail store, fun to visit.  They sell many wonderful stoves from various manufacturers.  Happy to be seeing dealers around the country.....


----------



## Nealm66

Sounds like a pretty cool job


----------



## stoveliker

Or hot and humid...


----------



## kennyp2339

Poindexter said:


> When the Canada geese are leaving, it is about to get real.


I hate seeing you guys get real cold when we are in August or September here on the EC of the lower 48, usually means that the jet stream will be in a ridge over here which means the door is open for more ocean storms out this way. 
We had our 3rd wettest July on record and just received nearly 5.5" of rain over the weekend, never been happier to have a woodshed as my out door piles are completely soaked through, its just been one of those kind of years around here.


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> Or hot and humid...


You rang? ;-)
Today it's going to be 96, with feels-like of 115.


----------



## stoveliker

I remember those days (E. TN) - but don't miss them (particularly when it was lawn mowing day...)


----------



## Tron

Lawn-mowing with a zero-turn is actually not so bad. But a while back I decided to cut up two large pines in our woods that fell during a storm a few weeks earlier. Now that was not so smart an idea, especially the heaving-rounds-into-the-trailer part.


----------



## Raoul

How can I test whether the thermostat on my AF 25 insert is working?   

I can clearly see the metal flapper up front  move open and close when I operate the lever.   However,  I have never seen that flapper be anywhere other than where I have set it.  

I have probably read it somewhere on this forum in the past but I can’t seem to find it.


----------



## BKVP

So long as there are no obstructions it's 99.9% working.   You can put it in the high position, start a fire of small size splits and as the fire becomes aggressive,  the blade will close slowly....


----------



## kennyp2339

Raoul said:


> How can I test whether the thermostat on my AF 25 insert is working?


I've experimented with my T-stat and what I've done was like what @BKVP said, set the setting to the max, make a fire let it get ripping, let the cat probe hit the active area and close the by-pass, let the fire get situated with the cat engaged then turn the T stat setting to half way, you should see the flames die down fairly quick (within a minute from doing that) let that go for a few min and then reset the air setting back to max, the fire should re-establish itself with 10min.


----------



## Raoul

kennyp2339 said:


> I've experimented with my T-stat and what I've done was like what @BKVP said, set the setting to the max, make a fire let it get ripping, let the cat probe hit the active area and close the by-pass, let the fire get situated with the cat engaged then turn the T stat setting to half way, you should see the flames die down fairly quick (within a minute from doing that) let that go for a few min and then reset the air setting back to max, the fire should re-establish itself with 10min.


Thank you both for the responses.  

I absolutely have full control of the fire with the T stat lever.   I guess maybe I am confused as to it’s capabilities.   I thought it also changed the air flow based on temps.  What I am saying is I see no independent movement of the airflow flap.


----------



## Highbeam

Raoul said:


> Thank you both for the responses.
> 
> I absolutely have full control of the fire with the T stat lever.   I guess maybe I am confused as to it’s capabilities.   I thought it also changed the air flow based on temps.  What I am saying is I see no independent movement of the airflow flap.


It is supposed to change the airflow based on stove temperatures. I can watch my fire be automatically increased and decreased as the stat opens and closes.

Can you hear the throttle plate click open or click closed as you turn the dial? The dial settings corresponding to the click full open and click full closed will change depending on stove temperature.


----------



## Raoul

Highbeam said:


> It is supposed to change the airflow based on stove temperatures. I can watch my fire be automatically increased and decreased as the stat opens and closes.
> 
> Can you hear the throttle plate click open or click closed as you turn the dial? The dial settings corresponding to the click full open and click full closed will change depending on stove temperature.


Yep.   I can hear it and see it. 

It sounds like I just don’t understand how it works. 

I start the fire with bypass open and throttle wide open.  Once bypass is closed (reach proper temp on gauge and fire going well), I leave the airflow set to max as it adjusts to the bypass being closed.  Then I set the air to where I’d like it.  Typically 3 o clock.  It is fully closed at 2:30 ish. 

What I thought was supposed to  happen is I set to desired airflow and the flap would open/ close to maintain approximate temp.

I was thinking I would get advice like “Point a heat gun here…” or a “hairdryer” there and you should see flap move.

Edit:  ok.  I reread your post.  When it hits it “close” may be different based on stove temp.    That will be something I’ll have to monitor when burning season begins.  

Appreciate the feedback.


----------



## BKVP

Raoul said:


> Yep.   I can hear it and see it.
> 
> It sounds like I just don’t understand how it works.
> 
> I start the fire with bypass open and throttle wide open.  Once bypass is closed (reach proper temp on gauge and fire going well), I leave the airflow set to max as it adjusts to the bypass being closed.  Then I set the air to where I’d like it.  Typically 3 o clock.  It is fully closed at 2:30 ish.
> 
> What I thought was supposed to  happen is I set to desired airflow and the flap would open/ close to maintain approximate temp.
> 
> I was thinking I would get advice like “Point a heat gun here…” or a “hairdryer” there and you should see flap move.
> 
> Edit:  ok.  I reread your post.  When it hits it “close” may be different based on stove temp.    That will be something I’ll have to monitor when burning season begins.
> 
> Appreciate the feedback.


You can not reach the thermostat spring in the AF25/SC25 to test with heat gun...unless you remove it from the stove itself.


----------



## Highbeam

Raoul said:


> Yep.   I can hear it and see it.
> 
> It sounds like I just don’t understand how it works.
> 
> I start the fire with bypass open and throttle wide open.  Once bypass is closed (reach proper temp on gauge and fire going well), I leave the airflow set to max as it adjusts to the bypass being closed.  Then I set the air to where I’d like it.  Typically 3 o clock.  It is fully closed at 2:30 ish.
> 
> What I thought was supposed to  happen is I set to desired airflow and the flap would open/ close to maintain approximate temp.
> 
> I was thinking I would get advice like “Point a heat gun here…” or a “hairdryer” there and you should see flap move.
> 
> Edit:  ok.  I reread your post.  When it hits it “close” may be different based on stove temp.    That will be something I’ll have to monitor when burning season begins.
> 
> Appreciate the feedback.



Your dial setting is a desired stove temperature setting, not a desired airflow setting. The thermostat will do its best to match your desired stove temperature setting by automatically regulating airflow.

Think cruise control on a car driving down a slightly rolling road.

Once at equilibrium (up to temp) the actual throttle opening changes very little to maintain the stove temp until the fuel runs low.

The big benefit is at warm up and cool down where the thermostat makes life much easier.


----------



## Dieselhead

A little stove maintenance yesterday. I had bought this cat at the beginning of last season as I knew mine was on its way out,  but I limped the old one along one last season. Popped the new one in the old showed some signs of minor crumbling and some definite ash build up. Looking forward to the new cat glow when this takes off for the first time this season.


----------



## Highbeam

Dieselhead said:


> A little stove maintenance yesterday. I had bought this cat at the beginning of last season as I knew mine was on its way out,  but I limped the old one along one last season. Popped the new one in the old showed some signs of minor crumbling and some definite ash build up. Looking forward to the new cat glow when this takes off for the first time this season.
> 
> View attachment 281425
> View attachment 281426
> View attachment 281427
> View attachment 281428
> View attachment 281429
> View attachment 281430
> View attachment 281431



I get that brown color and surface fuzz when they’re worn out too. Normally a grey up to the dying stages.


----------



## Dieselhead

It had a good run 4 seasons through it, burning pretty much 24/7 Nov-March. Still held active on low burn right up to the end and still threw a nice shade of orange when getting settled down for the low and slow 18hr reloads.


----------



## Highbeam

Dieselhead said:


> It had a good run 4 seasons through it, burning pretty much 24/7 Nov-March. Still held active on low burn right up to the end and still threw a nice shade of orange when getting settled down for the low and slow 18hr reloads.



It’s better to not push your luck to get every last bit of possible half activity out of these things. Get your efficiency, long burns, and clean burning back.


----------



## Dieselhead

The way I look at it, a fresh cat every few years beats paying the electric or propane companies!


----------



## stoveliker

Dieselhead said:


> It had a good run 4 seasons through it, burning pretty much 24/7 Nov-March. Still held active on low burn right up to the end and still threw a nice shade of orange when getting settled down for the low and slow 18hr reloads.



That's a nice 14000 hrs!


----------



## kennyp2339

About 10 more weeks and I'll be burning again, seems like summer flew by again here.


----------



## MTASH

kennyp2339 said:


> About 10 more weeks and I'll be burning again, seems like summer flew by again here.


I know what you mean. It's quite possible the ground will turn white and I will be burning in the next 4-6 weeks.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> Your dial setting is a desired stove temperature setting, not a desired airflow setting. The thermostat will do its best to match your desired stove temperature setting by automatically regulating airflow.
> 
> Think cruise control on a car driving down a slightly rolling road.
> 
> Once at equilibrium (up to temp) the actual throttle opening changes very little to maintain the stove temp until the fuel runs low.
> 
> The big benefit is at warm up and cool down where the thermostat makes life much easier.


What highbeam said.  I think of the thermostat knob, the throttle, as the temperature I want the house to stay at.  Once you have a few cords through it you can look at the weather forecast for overnight low, what clothes your wife is wearing right now, and select the throttle setting that will meet your overnight needs with no further fooling around with the stove.


----------



## MTASH

Poindexter said:


> What highbeam said.  I think of the thermostat knob, the throttle, as the temperature I want the house to stay at.  Once you have a few cords through it you can look at the weather forecast for overnight low, what clothes your wife is wearing right now, and select the throttle setting that will meet your overnight needs with no further fooling around with the stove.


And choosing a correct thermostat setting may lead to further fooling around with the wife, amiright?


----------



## Sailrmike

MTASH said:


> And choosing a correct thermostat setting may lead to further fooling around with the wife, amiright?


I thought that's what you guys were referring to when stating "riding the hole" of your thermostat operation


----------



## moresnow

Oh my


----------



## shgRUSS

My Princess is no longer a virgin, it was like a classic movie: The Good , Bad and Ugly.  Had a cool, rainy, breezy day last week and decided it was time for a test run. Followed the Instructions in the manual and all worked perfectly starting With no smoke spillage in the house GOOD. Anticipating the paint cure I had a couple windows open in the rooms around the Stove and boy was the cure process under stated in the manual. I had every window open and fan going to clear out the curing paint haze along with the smoke detectors all testing good(BAD). The stove worked perfectly and was as advertised in operation so very happy with that. The ugly was later that day I took my 5 yr old boy to the dentist, he was nervous but did good the whole time. Got back home and was helping him out of the truck, and He puked all over me.  What a day!


----------



## Nealm66

Will be fun to hear your clock learning


----------



## shgRUSS

Tinkered a little:  full clockwise rotation “high” is 6oclock. Room temp before stove started I could hear plate close at 130.  After my 20 min burn in, turned the stove down twice, once to 430 then 300, temp probe stayed half way in active at 300


----------



## ohlongarm

Drawing closer I'm ready with the beast for anything.


----------



## stoveliker

me too... I do a daily walk by my wood stacks now. Loaded a bunch in my garage. But I think I'll have to wait till November :-( 

The cold black block in the basement is mocking me...

First year I'm looking forward to (NY, ok, LI - but still often quite some snow for this previous East TN dweller) winter


----------



## MissMac

Hey fellas, would there be a possibility of causing some sort of damage via corrosion if I were to sweep the chimney top-down, but then leave the sweepings in the stove/bypass chamber overnight?  A friend can come over tonight and run the brush through for me, but I've got a few things on the go so won't be able to shop vac it all up until tomorrow morning?  Any issues you think, like with it sitting on the bypass gasket, or anything else?


----------



## Dieselhead

No problem at all.


----------



## MissMac

Okay, here's part 2 question.  My buddy was just over and swept.  A bit of soot seems to have leaked out the seam where the telescopic pipe connects to my stove top adapter piece (in the pic, at the top seem).  It's double-walled pipe.  I realize that soot is very fine, and can penetrate things pretty easy, but is this normal or something to be concerned about?


----------



## showrguy

MissMac said:


> Okay, here's part 2 question.  My buddy was just over and swept.  A bit of soot seems to have leaked out the seam where the telescopic pipe connects to my stove top adapter piece (in the pic, at the top seem).  It's double-walled pipe.  I realize that soot is very fine, and can penetrate things pretty easy, but is this normal or something to be concerned about?
> 
> View attachment 281985


Normal..
But if you leave the loading door open when sweeping that won’t happen….    Lol


----------



## MissMac

showrguy said:


> Normal..
> But if you leave the loading door open when sweeping that won’t happen….    Lol


hahahahah - thanks for the reassurance, and you got me there!  maybe next time i'll try with the loading door open...


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Went from a 80s (?) Fisher insert to a blaze king princess.....cant wait to fire her up!


----------



## Nealm66

That looks really good!


----------



## stoveliker

(Stupid?) question. I replaced my stove pipe to all double wall DVL this summer. Given that it's double wall - will there be any off gassing (like a newly painted stove)?
I'm asking so that, if I need to, I can make sure to start a fire while I can still open the windows comfortably... (though it is still near 75 this week, with 60+ nights, so I'll have to wait a month or so...)


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> (Stupid?) question. I replaced my stove pipe to all double wall DVL this summer. Given that it's double wall - will there be any off gassing (like a newly painted stove)?
> I'm asking so that, if I need to, I can make sure to start a fire while I can still open the windows comfortably... (though it is still near 75 this week, with 60+ nights, so I'll have to wait a month or so...)


I had a little smell when I did mine, and actually will get a smell here and there if I burn with the T-stat fully opened and forget to close the pipe damper, its one of those things that the pipe stays pretty cool, but occasionally when burnt hot you'll get that burn metal / latex smell.


----------



## Mike13

Removed the cat today from our BK Princess and cleaned up the stove and adjusted the door gasket. What do you guys recommend using for replacing the cat gasket? Local BK dealer is about an hour away. I can get Condar gasket material from another dealer about 20 min away. Or I found Interam gasket material, but it seems pricey. Any suggestionsor are they all about the same?


----------



## rdust

Mike13 said:


> Removed the cat today from our BK Princess and cleaned up the stove and adjusted the door gasket. What do you guys recommend using for replacing the cat gasket? Local BK dealer is about an hour away. I can get Condar gasket material from another dealer about 20 min away. Or I found Interam gasket material, but it seems pricey. Any suggestionsor are they all about the same?











						Interam Gasket for Catalytic Combustors (2
					

Gasket is 2" wide x 1/16" thick. Order the correct length for your needs. Add the lengths of your catalyst's four sides to determine length needed You may secure gasket around combustor using masking tape Expanding gasket provides a tight seal around catalyst Comparable to ACI FireCat part...




					midwesthearth.com


----------



## Highbeam

Mike13 said:


> Removed the cat today from our BK Princess and cleaned up the stove and adjusted the door gasket. What do you guys recommend using for replacing the cat gasket? Local BK dealer is about an hour away. I can get Condar gasket material from another dealer about 20 min away. Or I found Interam gasket material, but it seems pricey. Any suggestionsor are they all about the same?



I would not remove the cat for any reason other than replacement with a new one which should come with a new gasket. If for some reason you wanted to remove the cat then I wouldn’t do it without a new gasket in hand, you’re dead in the water now and heating season is upon us.

I’ve used Midwest hearth for cats, would recommend them for fast shipping and high quality if they have it. You might as well buy a spare cat too. The economy has been weird and parts aren’t always available.


----------



## begreen

There's time for an order. 87º predicted today for central Ohio. One can fall back on the central heating or even a space heater for chill chasing during early shoulder season.


----------



## rijim

The Ashford 30.2 was delivered yesterday, got the blower unit mounted and the stovepipe connected;  inserted the CAT today which seemed straight forward, any thing  I should know that is not in the manual? First cool night I plan for the first break-in fire.
Thanks.


----------



## kennyp2339

rijim said:


> any thing I should know that is not in the manual


Check both your door and by-pass gaskets.
The by-pass just needs to be slightly snug, not clamp down tight, you will hear the cam click over and with some resistance pull a dollar bill through the flat gasket.
The door gasket should be tight all the way around (tighter then the by-pass) and when you shut the door is should almost micro suck into the knife edge.
Make sure if you have the ash pan that the clean out piece inside the stove is sitting flush to the floor, other then that, time to wait for some cooler weather to do some break in fires; good luck.


----------



## stoveliker

rijim said:


> The Ashford 30.2 was delivered yesterday, got the blower unit mounted and the stovepipe connected;  inserted the CAT today which seemed straight forward, any thing  I should know that is not in the manual? First cool night I plan for the first break-in fire.
> Thanks.



While you need some cooler weather for the draft, do the break in fires when you can still open your windows. It's going to stink.


----------



## clancey

That's for true and pushed my first stove lighting off for awhile (I am timid--lol) for that very reason. I looked up your ashford 3.2 and its a neat stove and looks soo heavy duty...Your going to have a grand time....have a small party...thanks for sharing...neat stove...clancey




__





						Ashford 30.2 – Blaze King
					






					www.blazeking.com


----------



## Tron

Cleaned the stove and our flue with the sooteater after our first full season of using the BK. Really satisfied with everything. No fly ash in the cat (no, for good reason I did not take it out), vacuumed it for good measure. In the flue only a few cups of creosote, mostly from the upper end. The stove-to-ceiling pipe was almost spotless.


----------



## Ak_1981

Hi,

(Sorry this got a little long winded but I wanted to be precise, I promise there’s a question at the end lol)

I just moved into a new house that has a blaze king (ultra?) anyway this is my first time ever running a wood stove, my previous house I had to install a pellet stove due to various reasons.

I have read through the operating manual several times and before starting my first burn I cleaned out all the ash, inspected bypass valve for proper seating, checked door gasket and replaced the catalyst, the old one looked still serviceable but since I didn’t know the history of the stove I changed it out and saved the old one as a backup.

first burn was 6 pm Saturday night, loaded two quarter splits  EW with some newspaper and 3 splits NS on top (kiln dried birch) started fire per manual with bypass open until just into active zone , closed bypass and ran at high for 25 min, everything ran flawlessly and over about 20-30 min period I slowly temped down to the #1 position. Fire was down to burning coals with some random light offs of what I guess was wood gas burning off. 15 hours later (9 am Sunday) the stove was still putting off heat, thermometer was just below active and stove hot to touch, 18 hours later still warm, could touch stove for about 2-3 seconds with bare hands. Left house to do stuff.

second load Sunday somewhere between 6-8 pm, stove felt completely cooled down at this point,  this time I loaded same size wood but 3 splits EW with newspaper and 3 splits NS (so one extra piece vs night before) surprisingly the were some coals hot enough to smolder the newspaper before I had planned on lighting fire, started up this load EXACTLY as last time EXCEPT I turned down temp past #1 setting (meaning lowest) the dial spun back very far but stopped itself a little before doing a complete 360. I wanted to see how long of a burn I could get on lowest setting since it’s still above freezing at night here in Alaska. Everything seemed to be running perfectly, the coals seemed to be running a tad lower, obviously, and no “gas flares”.

approximately 12 hours later when I got up to check stove it was stone cold to the touch.

so by adding more wood and running it lower temps I got WAY less heat and run time.

So my question is, am I doing something wrong? Any input appreciated


----------



## showrguy

Ak_1981 said:


> Hi,
> 
> (Sorry this got a little long winded but I wanted to be precise, I promise there’s a question at the end lol)
> 
> I just moved into a new house that has a blaze king (ultra?) anyway this is my first time ever running a wood stove, my previous house I had to install a pellet stove due to various reasons.
> 
> I have read through the operating manual several times and before starting my first burn I cleaned out all the ash, inspected bypass valve for proper seating, checked door gasket and replaced the catalyst, the old one looked still serviceable but since I didn’t know the history of the stove I changed it out and saved the old one as a backup.
> 
> first burn was 6 pm Saturday night, loaded two quarter splits  EW with some newspaper and 3 splits NS on top (kiln dried birch) started fire per manual with bypass open until just into active zone , closed bypass and ran at high for 25 min, everything ran flawlessly and over about 20-30 min period I slowly temped down to the #1 position. Fire was down to burning coals with some random light offs of what I guess was wood gas burning off. 15 hours later (9 am Sunday) the stove was still putting off heat, thermometer was just below active and stove hot to touch, 18 hours later still warm, could touch stove for about 2-3 seconds with bare hands. Left house to do stuff.
> 
> second load Sunday somewhere between 6-8 pm, stove felt completely cooled down at this point,  this time I loaded same size wood but 3 splits EW with newspaper and 3 splits NS (so one extra piece vs night before) surprisingly the were some coals hot enough to smolder the newspaper before I had planned on lighting fire, started up this load EXACTLY as last time EXCEPT I turned down temp past #1 setting (meaning lowest) the dial spun back very far but stopped itself a little before doing a complete 360. I wanted to see how long of a burn I could get on lowest setting since it’s still above freezing at night here in Alaska. Everything seemed to be running perfectly, the coals seemed to be running a tad lower, obviously, and no “gas flares”.
> 
> approximately 12 hours later when I got up to check stove it was stone cold to the touch.
> 
> so by adding more wood and running it lower temps I got WAY less heat and run time.
> 
> So my question is, am I doing something wrong? Any input appreciated


Yes,
Very few BK’s can be run below the 2 oclock setting, you need to find the sweet spot for your setup (everyone’s situation is different)..
Once you find the spot on your dial that you cannot go below without losing your CAT you’re golden..
Also, you posted this in the wrong place, this should be in the section above this one, you’ll get more replies there  !!/

edit : And BTW welcome..
also your stove will burn much better when all is loaded n/s..


----------



## begreen

Moved to the BK thread.
Ak_1981 what model BK stove is this?


----------



## Highbeam

First fire of 21/22. The pug remembers his favorite spot. Just a chill chaser, it’s 62 outside!


----------



## Nealm66

I’ve been thinking about firing one as well! Guessing we might of got some snow on the big hill


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> I’ve been thinking about firing one as well! Guessing we might of got some snow on the big hill


White pass ski area got some.


----------



## Ak_1981

begreen said:


> Moved to the BK thread.
> Ak_1981 what model BK stove is this?


Thanks and sorry, trying to navigate this on my phone. It’s a PE1006


----------



## Ak_1981

showrguy said:


> Yes,
> Very few BK’s can be run below the 2 oclock setting, you need to find the sweet spot for your setup (everyone’s situation is different)..
> Once you find the spot on your dial that you cannot go below without losing your CAT you’re golden..
> Also, you posted this in the wrong place, this should be in the section above this one, you’ll get more replies there  !!/
> 
> edit : And BTW welcome..
> also your stove will burn much better when all is loaded n/s..


Thanks for the suggestions, the second load that didn’t last as long and was set way back temp wise was running in the active zone and cat was glowing, however it’s possible after a few hours it got chocked out while I was sleeping. Next time I’ll keep things at #1 and tweak from there. Still too “ warm” out for us to run the stove for primary heat, I just wanted to check the operation before real Alaskan winter hits


----------



## Highbeam

Ak_1981 said:


> Hi,
> 
> (Sorry this got a little long winded but I wanted to be precise, I promise there’s a question at the end lol)
> 
> I just moved into a new house that has a blaze king (ultra?) anyway this is my first time ever running a wood stove, my previous house I had to install a pellet stove due to various reasons.
> 
> I have read through the operating manual several times and before starting my first burn I cleaned out all the ash, inspected bypass valve for proper seating, checked door gasket and replaced the catalyst, the old one looked still serviceable but since I didn’t know the history of the stove I changed it out and saved the old one as a backup.
> 
> first burn was 6 pm Saturday night, loaded two quarter splits  EW with some newspaper and 3 splits NS on top (kiln dried birch) started fire per manual with bypass open until just into active zone , closed bypass and ran at high for 25 min, everything ran flawlessly and over about 20-30 min period I slowly temped down to the #1 position. Fire was down to burning coals with some random light offs of what I guess was wood gas burning off. 15 hours later (9 am Sunday) the stove was still putting off heat, thermometer was just below active and stove hot to touch, 18 hours later still warm, could touch stove for about 2-3 seconds with bare hands. Left house to do stuff.
> 
> second load Sunday somewhere between 6-8 pm, stove felt completely cooled down at this point,  this time I loaded same size wood but 3 splits EW with newspaper and 3 splits NS (so one extra piece vs night before) surprisingly the were some coals hot enough to smolder the newspaper before I had planned on lighting fire, started up this load EXACTLY as last time EXCEPT I turned down temp past #1 setting (meaning lowest) the dial spun back very far but stopped itself a little before doing a complete 360. I wanted to see how long of a burn I could get on lowest setting since it’s still above freezing at night here in Alaska. Everything seemed to be running perfectly, the coals seemed to be running a tad lower, obviously, and no “gas flares”.
> 
> approximately 12 hours later when I got up to check stove it was stone cold to the touch.
> 
> so by adding more wood and running it lower temps I got WAY less heat and run time.
> 
> So my question is, am I doing something wrong? Any input appreciated



You only had 5 splits and got 18 hours, which is extraordinary. You’ll just need to do a few hundred more burns to get a good average. There are lots of variables.


----------



## moresnow

Highbeam said:


> First fire of 21/22. The pug remembers his favorite spot. Just a chill chaser, it’s 62 outside!
> 
> View attachment 282085


Chill chaser?  My wife will likely still have "her" A/C running at 62F! Your pup looks content.


----------



## Highbeam

Ak_1981 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, the second load that didn’t last as long and was set way back temp wise was running in the active zone and cat was glowing, however it’s possible after a few hours it got chocked out while I was sleeping. Next time I’ll keep things at #1 and tweak from there. Still too “ warm” out for us to run the stove for primary heat, I just wanted to check the operation before real Alaskan winter hits


Great idea to do a test run before winter hits. Allows time to recover if something doesn’t go right. Also allows you to vent the stink of burning dust or paint that seems bad on those first burns.


----------



## Poindexter

Ak_1981 said:


> approximately 12 hours later when I got up to check stove it was stone cold to the touch.
> 
> so by adding more wood and running it lower temps I got WAY less heat and run time.
> 
> So my question is, am I doing something wrong? Any input appreciated


Any charcoal left in the firebox?  It is mighty warm out to be running a BK turned way down around here  unless you have a LOT of stack height.

My guess, if you got charred wood left in the firebox especially, is the thermostat was turned down too low for the weather and the fire went out.

I would ass/u/me going in the previous owner of your house has the stack height dialed in "good enough" for the way they used the stove.  I have changed mine I think three times and have been leaving it alone for a few years.  In our current weather I am running similar sized loads, maybe 6-8 splits, but wide open throttle, highest possible thermostat setting  so my combustor doesn't stall.  It takes the chill off, warms up the house, and then with the fire out the stove is still warm for several hours.  

We started a new weather pattern Monday morning, this morning, where I might think about running a half a firebox tonight, running it on full thermostat until the house warms up and then maybe turning it down to about half throttle for the overnight.

The thing is in January these things will run like a freight train.  Our local dealer said to me, more than three years ago, 25-30 feet is absolute maximum stack height for us in Fairbanks.  In January, when you are running the stove pretty hard too much stack height is just too much draft.

Last week, small hot fires at full throttle for me.  This week (if the forecast holds) it looks like medium sized fires running on high for a few hours and then turned down to about half for the overnight.  I might find a bit of charcoal the next evening, rake that to the front when starting the next fire.

A couple more weeks when it cools off some more, full firebox, a couple hours on high and then turn it down.

A couple weeks after that, load morning and night and run at about half throttle.

A couple more months load morning and night and put the hammer down on the throttle/ thermostat.

My advice for this year is keep an eye on how low you can turn the thermostat without the fire going out relative to outdoor temperature as the season progresses and come up with a firm number for your current stack height by May.  Lots of stack height will let you run on low when the outdoor temp is +50dF, but you also want a short enough stack to run wide open throttle in January without having a volcano in your living room.

FWIW I have an Ashford 30, a little bit smaller stove than yours, with about 18 feet of total stack from stove collar to chimney cap.  If you have 16-20 feet of total pipe on your chimney my suggestion is to leave the pipe alone at least for this year and get to know the system. 

Our local BK dealer is excellent.  On the price quality service triangle I pay for, but actually receive, quality and service.  How dry is that kiln dried wood really?  Have you checked some of it by splitting some open and measuring the MC parallel to the grain on a freshly exposed face?  I have heard good things but haven't handled any personally.  And we might have two vendors now also, though I am guessing you bought from Aurora rather than Big Mike.  Mike has been talking about his biomass fired wood drying kiln for years, but I first saw an ad on CL about a week ago.

You did sweep your pipe before the first fire right?  Or had a signed off pro sweep at the closing?  You got smoke and CO detectors and a fire extinguisher?

Any bends or elbows in your chimney?


----------



## Ak_1981

Poindexter said:


> Any charcoal left in the firebox?  It is mighty warm out to be running a BK turned way down around here  unless you have a LOT of stack height.
> 
> My guess, if you got charred wood left in the firebox especially, is the thermostat was turned down too low for the weather and the fire went out.
> 
> I would ass/u/me going in the previous owner of your house has the stack height dialed in "good enough" for the way they used the stove.  I have changed mine I think three times and have been leaving it alone for a few years.  In our current weather I am running similar sized loads, maybe 6-8 splits, but wide open throttle, highest possible thermostat setting  so my combustor doesn't stall.  It takes the chill off, warms up the house, and then with the fire out the stove is still warm for several hours.
> 
> We started a new weather pattern Monday morning, this morning, where I might think about running a half a firebox tonight, running it on full thermostat until the house warms up and then maybe turning it down to about half throttle for the overnight.
> 
> The thing is in January these things will run like a freight train.  Our local dealer said to me, more than three years ago, 25-30 feet is absolute maximum stack height for us in Fairbanks.  In January, when you are running the stove pretty hard too much stack height is just too much draft.
> 
> Last week, small hot fires at full throttle for me.  This week (if the forecast holds) it looks like medium sized fires running on high for a few hours and then turned down to about half for the overnight.  I might find a bit of charcoal the next evening, rake that to the front when starting the next fire.
> 
> A couple more weeks when it cools off some more, full firebox, a couple hours on high and then turn it down.
> 
> A couple weeks after that, load morning and night and run at about half throttle.
> 
> A couple more months load morning and night and put the hammer down on the throttle/ thermostat.
> 
> My advice for this year is keep an eye on how low you can turn the thermostat without the fire going out relative to outdoor temperature as the season progresses and come up with a firm number for your current stack height by May.  Lots of stack height will let you run on low when the outdoor temp is +50dF, but you also want a short enough stack to run wide open throttle in January without having a volcano in your living room.
> 
> FWIW I have an Ashford 30, a little bit smaller stove than yours, with about 18 feet of total stack from stove collar to chimney cap.  If you have 16-20 feet of total pipe on your chimney my suggestion is to leave the pipe alone at least for this year and get to know the system.
> 
> Our local BK dealer is excellent.  On the price quality service triangle I pay for, but actually receive, quality and service.  How dry is that kiln dried wood really?  Have you checked some of it by splitting some open and measuring the MC parallel to the grain on a freshly exposed face?  I have heard good things but haven't handled any personally.  And we might have two vendors now also, though I am guessing you bought from Aurora rather than Big Mike.  Mike has been talking about his biomass fired wood drying kiln for years, but I first saw an ad on CL about a week ago.
> 
> You did sweep your pipe before the first fire right?  Or had a signed off pro sweep at the closing?  You got smoke and CO detectors and a fire extinguisher?
> 
> Any bends or elbows in your chimney?


Thanks for all the input. My second burn had chunks left in the box. I did a third burn last night, the temp control did not appear to be working and the cat wasn’t glowing, 3 hours later I was just playing with the stove since it was getting a bit warm in the house and I opened and then closed the bypass, it must have had a poor seal because the fire immediately settled down, the temp control was working and the cat became active. I’m just going to have to keep playing with it but I want to replicate that first burn where I had 18 hours.

im in a ranch style house so the stack is about 16’ I would guess and it’s almost a straight shot up, I say almost because there are two adjustable pieces inside the house I’m guessing in order to set the stove for proper clearance the chimney run was off by a couple inches, but the bends are a lot less than 45 degrees.

the wood is from Aurora and it is extremely dry, i haven’t tested it though, I can almost just light it from the bare wood without any paper. They might test it before delivery, there was a very detailed receipt I will check again but I ordered 2 cords and their measurements on the receipt were very “generous”


----------



## ratsrepus

well getting pretty close to that time here in Michigan. Have both stoves cleaned, lubed, chimneys swept,  new cats in both,


----------



## kennyp2339

Ak_1981 said:


> I’m just going to have to keep playing with it but I want to replicate that first burn where I had 18 hours.


You may have 2 things going on, both are easily fixed. 
Part A off your burn where you thought the t-stat wasnt working - T stat was either pegged open at the control or the fire just wasnt hot enough. The fix is easy, next fire - load the stove up, turn t-stat knob all the way open (clockwise) to 5 pm, let the fire get ripping with the by-pass open, as soon as the cat probe shows the line into the active territory close the by-pass, let the fire go for another 20 min, when the cat probe needle gets past noon into the 2 - 3 o'clock area turn the t-stat back to 2-3 oclock and let it go, let that fire burn for an hour
When you for sure have an established fire turn that t-stat back in increments, you want to find that point of where you have flames to no flames but a glowing red cat when you look into the stove window. 
Every stove setup is different and there is no fix setting, my t-stat placement will more then likely be different then yours, this is because of wood type, dryness, draft and outside conditions, find your spot and go from there, its always important to start off with a well established fire, and if you find your spot on the T-stat (might need a 6 pack of beer) be aware that it can change ever so slightly as winter weather changes, from extreme arctic cold, to north wind vs west wind ect..


----------



## Nealm66

Well, dusted off the princess and lit the first fire. Second season, cleaned it in the spring. Was worried about the house being to hot but feels good and only 72 upstairs. 53 outside but raining and a good breeze. Made a mark last year on the swoosh and seems to be working again. Didn’t get any wood in for the winter so will be burning press logs for the most part which doesn’t bother me too much if I can get the 30 hour burns again. They didn’t have any north Idaho logs at the feed store so trying a different brand. Probably end up cutting some more snags if I get time but definitely going to catch some slack for not getting anything put up ahead of time since it’s free and just down the road ha ha!! Definitely was a busy crazy summer.


----------



## bikedennis

New Sirocco 30. 2.  First fire to burn off the paint.  About  60 outside. Opened the windows and lit the kindling. Had my first experience with reverse draft.  Lots of smoke, smoke alarm went off.  After a short while the fire took off.  After about 20 min. I closed the damper and then later I backed off the  T.
I did worry that I  would have to replace the single wall stovepipe with DW or that I may have a problem with the stove.
This AM it was 35 degrees outside.  2nd fire no problem . I'm still thinking of going for the DW.


----------



## BKVP

bikedennis said:


> New Sirocco 30. 2.  First fire to burn off the paint.  About  60 outside. Opened the windows and lit the kindling. Had my first experience with reverse draft.  Lots of smoke, smoke alarm went off.  After a short while the fire took off.  After about 20 min. I closed the damper and then later I backed off the  T.
> I did worry that I  would have to replace the single wall stovepipe with DW or that I may have a problem with the stove.
> This AM it was 35 degrees outside.  2nd fire no problem . I'm still thinking of going for the DW.


Go for the dbl wall.  What is the overall chimney length (stove top to cap)?


----------



## bikedennis

Estimate that the chimney is about 20 ft from top of the stove.  Chimney and cap just cleaned.


----------



## stoveliker

Given that flue temps are lower for these stoves, and that you don't want to have creosote condense, keeping the warmth in the flue is important. Especially for taller stacks. So I'd follow BKVPs advise.

And that brings me to my question: I just switched to double wall, and added a flue thermometer 18" above the stove.

What temps should I aim for there? What max when I am charring the wood, and what when running in a long burn around mid range?


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> Given that flue temps are lower for these stoves, and that you don't want to have creosote condense, keeping the warmth in the flue is important. Especially for taller stacks. So I'd follow BKVPs advise.
> 
> And that brings me to my question: I just switched to double wall, and added a flue thermometer 18" above the stove.
> 
> What temps should I aim for there? What max when I am charring the wood, and what when running in a long burn around mid range?


Is the flue thermometer magnetic or does it have a probe that inserts into the interior of the venting...


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> Is the flue thermometer magnetic or does it have a probe that inserts into the interior of the venting...



Sorry, should have been clearer. It's a condar probe inserted into the flu.


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> Sorry, should have been clearer. It's a condar probe inserted into the flu.


Low burn gases 200-300F, high burn 450-600F.  Those Condar probes are not very accurate and a meant to provide "guidance".


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> Low burn gases 200-300F, high burn 450-600F.  Those Condar probes are not very accurate and a meant to provide "guidance".




Thanks.
I know. But a quicker electronic one was not in the works (or wallet) at this time.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Sorry, should have been clearer. It's a condar probe inserted into the flu.



I too use a condar probe in double wall pipe 18" above the stove. I tested it's accuracy against an electronic thermocouple auber instrument and it was spot on after like 15 years of use. I'm pretty happy with that. It is slower to respond than the electronic version but no wires or nerdy electronics to look at and I already have the hole drilled so the condar stays. 

In my experience, it is very easy to push flue temperatures above the normal range and into the too hot zone during the char stage of the burn. As such, I shorten the char stage when flue temperatures rise up to 900 (top of the normal zone) and then my low cruise results in temps at the bottom end of the normal range which is 400 for 24 hours. Now, I could cheat those flue temps a little lower and flirt with cat stall, gooey creosote in the firebox, and gooey creosote in the chimney but I find none of that with thermostat settings that keep flue temps at 400 and up. You know, the "normal" zone.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Thanks.
> I know. But a quicker electronic one was not in the works (or wallet) at this time.



Oh and with your 27' flue, you might find that flue temps skyrocket when she gets chooching during warm up so keep an eye on it.


----------



## Diabel

500 to 600 on char
250 to 350 cruise


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I too use a condar probe in double wall pipe 18" above the stove. I tested it's accuracy against an electronic thermocouple auber instrument and it was spot on after like 15 years of use. I'm pretty happy with that. It is slower to respond than the electronic version but no wires or nerdy electronics to look at and I already have the hole drilled so the condar stays.
> 
> In my experience, it is very easy to push flue temperatures above the normal range and into the too hot zone during the char stage of the burn. As such, I shorten the char stage when flue temperatures rise up to 900 (top of the normal zone) and then my low cruise results in temps at the bottom end of the normal range which is 400 for 24 hours. Now, I could cheat those flue temps a little lower and flirt with cat stall, gooey creosote in the firebox, and gooey creosote in the chimney but I find none of that with thermostat settings that keep flue temps at 400 and up. You know, the "normal" zone.



Given that gases cool during their upward travel, how tall is your stack? (Insulated, I presume?)

I'm asking because I have 26-27', but not insulated. Instead double wall in outside masonry. So mine may cool more, possibly creating creosote problems at the top. (Although at the end of last season  (no flue probe), the chimney was completely clean except for some stuff at the underground outside elbow.)
I can do the same this year, but I'd like to know what flue temps are normal so I can see whether what I did last year was normal or not.

So, thank you. Another season of tinkering, learning, and enjoying  In a month or so... :-(


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Given that gases cool during their upward travel, how tall is your stack? (Insulated, I presume?)
> 
> I'm asking because I have 26-27', but not insulated. Instead double wall in outside masonry. So mine may cool more, possibly creating creosote problems at the top. (Although at the end of last season  (no flue probe), the chimney was completely clean except for some stuff at the underground outside elbow.)
> I can do the same this year, but I'd like to know what flue temps are normal so I can see whether what I did last year was normal or not.
> 
> So, thank you. Another season of tinkering, learning, and enjoying  In a month or so... :-(



My chimney is all vertical. 4’ double wall and 8’ of class a. Cap with no screen. With a functional cat and dry softwoods I get dry black deposits. Flakier up top. The cap gets pretty gross since it’s so cold but does not plug.

Same chimney above a modern noncat and I got much less debris and it was much browner. 

27’ is a lot. It’s double wall which is more insulated than single wall. I would think your draft strength has to be in excess of spec. Have you noticed any problems associated with overdraft? Like plugging cats?


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> My chimney is all vertical. 4’ double wall and 8’ of class a. Cap with no screen. With a functional cat and dry softwoods I get dry black deposits. Flakier up top. The cap gets pretty gross since it’s so cold but does not plug.
> 
> Same chimney above a modern noncat and I got much less debris and it was much browner.
> 
> 27’ is a lot. It’s double wall which is more insulated than single wall. I would think your draft strength has to be in excess of spec. Have you noticed any problems associated with overdraft? Like plugging cats?



Hm, that's short. So my top may be colder than yours, despite climate differences.
Mine is 2' double wall, 90 deg elbow double wall, 2' horizontal double wall, 90 deg elbow underground (don't know wall), and then 26' double wall in masonry up. So two elbows and a horizontal run that cut draft. Still,.it worked fine. No significant fly ash in the cat. Didn't brush it once during burning season. (Did so once after, but no real need.) Stove does not run away (yay Tstat). I'm happy with what it did. With wood that was just, JUST, dry enough last year. (As in resplitting sassafras to 1-2" pieces, stacking log cabin style near the stove for a week, a fan going for 5 mins every hr...).

I have a half cord of that sassafras, 1.25 face cord of pine and 1.25 face cord of ash that should be better this year. Then 5.25 face cord of oak that I think just touches 20%, so a few days near the stove will make that work.

Hence I am keeping an eye on the stove, with drier wood, my 27', I need to be sure that riding the hole won't be too much...
And hence my questions about flue temps...


----------



## begreen

Below 250º internal flue temp is when flue gases can start to condense as creosote. After the wood has fully outgassed and in the coals only stage, then this is not an issue.


----------



## stoveliker

begreen said:


> Below 250º internal flue temp is when flue gases can start to condense as creosote. After the wood has fully outgassed and in the coals only stage, then this is not an issue.



Yes. I know. But I don't have a temperature probe 26' up. And cool down in my system will not be negligible.

 So this info is not solving my questions completely (though, being a scientist, that might never be the case...)

Hence I appreciate data on flue temps of well-working systems accompanied by the system parameters (length etc), and performance (creosote on top or not).


----------



## Diabel

If the gases are 250 at 18” above my stove, they must be much much lower at 24 some feet at the cap. No build up at my cap though. Part time user , just disclaiming.


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> If the gases are 250 at 18” above my stove, they must be much much lower at 24 some feet at the cap. No build up at my cap though. Part time user , just disclaiming.


It depends at what stage of the burn this reading is at and how accurate the temp reading is. Just hypothesizing here,  If the chimney system is well insulated then it may only get a 10-20º drop. on the trip to the top. And accumulations may be getting burned off at the next start up if the flue temp is 600º.


----------



## Highbeam

I hope my chimney accumulations never get burned off. Sounds like a bad day.


----------



## Diabel

begreen said:


> It depends at what stage of the burn this reading is at and how accurate the temp reading is. Just hypothesizing here,  If the chimney system is well insulated then it may only get a 10-20º drop. on the trip to the top. And accumulations may be getting burned off at the next start up if the flue temp is 600º.


Of course it is all different with every set up. Mine is very peculiar, clean cap, some shine at the clean out, very little accumulation, part time use. 
My flue very exposed to the north (very cold, Quebec cold)!


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> Of course it is all different with every set up. Mine is very peculiar, clean cap, some shine at the clean out, very little accumulation, part time use.
> My flue very exposed to the north (very cold, Quebec cold)!


If the thermometer is like our probe thermometer was, it could be off by quite a bit.


----------



## Diabel

I will have my first fire in the bk this weekend. I will take the Auber meter/probe and test, will see if and by how much the bi-metalic probe is off.


----------



## showrguy

Diabel said:


> I will have my first fire in the bk this weekend. I will take the Auber meter/probe and test, will see if and by how much the bi-metalic probe is off.


You can’t always trust the Auber either,,, been there..


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> I will have my first fire in the bk this weekend. I will take the Auber meter/probe and test, will see if and by how much the bi-metalic probe is off.


Great, thanks. I am deliberating replacing our old Condar.


----------



## begreen

showrguy said:


> You can’t always trust the Auber either,,, been there..


Yes, it can happen.  I have heard of some probe failures several years ago. Our Auber wireless was defective, it wouldn't communicate with the remote unit, but that was obvious and they replaced it under warranty.


----------



## shgRUSS

Quick question: Did everyone fill out the 10yr cat warranty card and mail it in?  Or is my bill of sale all I need?


----------



## BKVP

shgRUSS said:


> Quick question: Did everyone fill out the 10yr cat warranty card and mail it in?  Or is my bill of sale all I need?


I can tell you for certain, the 10-year "warranty" is a greater duration of coverage than the owner's manual describes.  You see, our supplier, based upon extremely low claims numbers, offered us an extension above and beyond what was required by EPA.  So the 10-year coverage is a promotion we have been running for over 6 years now.  We fully expect to continue doing so as our supplier remains supportive.  So, if you want to be covered for the extended coverage, send in the card.  Great question!!

BKVP


----------



## shgRUSS

BKVP said:


> I can tell you for certain, the 10-year "warranty" is a greater duration of coverage than the owner's manual describes.  You see, our supplier, based upon extremely low claims numbers, offered us an extension above and beyond what was required by EPA.  So the 10-year coverage is a promotion we have been running for over 6 years now.  We fully expect to continue doing so as our supplier remains supportive.  So, if you want to be covered for the extended coverage, send in the card.  Great question!!
> 
> BKVP


Thanks, card will be in the mail


----------



## Nealm66

Second year and still learning. Building a small fire that lasts about 8 hours on low in the am seems to be working pretty slick


----------



## Diabel

First fire in the BK yesterday. Did not miss a beat. Loaded with cedar and punky hemlock around 4:00pm. I could reload now but I think I will let it go out. I want to clean the pipe and tighten the door latch.


----------



## ratsrepus

My Ashford  30.1  is a pre 2020 model, what improvements were made for the new certification?  I guess this is directed towards BKVP . I installed it in 2018


----------



## Diabel

I laugh every time I load this stove….


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> I laugh every time I load this stove….
> 
> View attachment 282596


This is the Princess? Is it normally loaded E/W?


----------



## Diabel

begreen said:


> This is the Princess? Is it normally loaded E/W?


Yes it is. The splits were too long to load NS. NS is my preferred loading way.


----------



## begreen

It's nice to have that option. Looks like a good start to the season.


----------



## panderson03

Diabel said:


> First fire in the BK yesterday. Did not miss a beat. Loaded with cedar and punky hemlock around 4:00pm. I could reload now but I think I will let it go out. I want to clean the pipe and tighten the door latch.


I wonder if you can comment on your experience with burning cedar. we have many cedar trees >6" diameter that i'd love to burn in our Princess but i'd heard burning cedar in a stove or fireplace comes with challenges. thank you!


----------



## stoveliker

I've burned cedar in my BK. Works fantastic. Either in shoulder season, or starting a fire, or mixed with wood that may be slightly higher in moisture.

If you burn it in a stove when it is properly dry, it is not bad in any way. An open fireplace may give some popping sparks.


----------



## panderson03

Nighttime temps dip into the 40s now and 30's predicted in a couple of weeks. Stove is ready, flue is cleaned. 5 cords of wood seasoned, split, stacked (oak, elm, ash, ironwood). we're almost ready for the season! i did wonder about the thermometer the sticks into the BK box. it seems coated with creosote. how do i clean that? thank you


----------



## stoveliker

No need to clean it as it doesn't affect the temp reading (it might slow the reading down a tiny bit, but this is a slow measurement anyway).
If you are nevertheless concerned, I'd use fine sandpaper if it is crusty. Lightly rub it; don't abrade the metal.


----------



## Diabel

panderson03 said:


> I wonder if you can comment on your experience with burning cedar. we have many cedar trees >6" diameter that i'd love to burn in our Princess but i'd heard burning cedar in a stove or fireplace comes with challenges. thank you!


I don’t actually burn much cedar in my stove. Most of the cedar gets burned in the fire pit. On occasion when I come across a nice fallen/broken/dead cedar 5-7” across I will buck it and throw it in the firewood pile. Any wood will burn just fine as long as it is well seasoned.


----------



## begreen

There is a little western red cedar in this year's mixed wood stash in the shed. It burns fine, but can be extra sparky so watch our for popping embers.


----------



## panderson03

stoveliker said:


> No need to clean it as it doesn't affect the temp reading (it might slow the reading down a tiny bit, but this is a slow measurement anyway).
> If you are nevertheless concerned, I'd use fine sandpaper if it is crusty. Lightly rub it; don't abrade the metal.


thank you!



Diabel said:


> I don’t actually burn much cedar in my stove. Most of the cedar gets burned in the fire pit. On occasion when I come across a nice fallen/broken/dead cedar 5-7” across I will buck it and throw it in the firewood pile. Any wood will burn just fine as long as it is well seasoned.


thanks for your help!


----------



## kennyp2339

panderson03 said:


> I wonder if you can comment on your experience with burning cedar. we have many cedar trees >6" diameter that i'd love to burn in our Princess but i'd heard burning cedar in a stove or fireplace comes with challenges. thank you!


I pretty much burn everything, some of the stuff like pine, cotton wood, cedar, white birch gets tossed by other burners as un-desirable. 
For me, the princess is a refined tool, yes I agree with some members that it can lack on big output when temps dive below zero deg f, but the princess is like a sherman tank to me, the stove covers about 95% of my heating needs. 
As far as burning cedar (referencing eastern red cedar), just like any other wood, make sure its dry, splits can be big ( I sometimes squeeze 8 - 10" diameter stuff into the firebox) more or less if is dry and and can fit, it gets burnt. 
Lower btu wood in my opinion gets exploited in the BK's, as long as you get a good base fire going, active cat you can turn the stove down, smolder the firebox and let the cat cook off the smoke and transfer the heat to the stove top (about 450 - 600 deg stove top to) that usually is enough heat for me when the outside temps are above 28deg f, I'll ball park 16-18hr burns, if it gets lower I burn a bit hotter and run the blower, and my burn times for lower btu wood go to 10 - 12hr loads, still longer then most stoves and it covers my heating needs. 
I get in trouble with cold once the temps hit the single digits or below, especially if there is a NW wind going, but that only happens in the depths of winter and lasts 2 weeks tops, so I dont mind supplementing with oil fired hot water baseboard, still saving tons of $$$ and having lot of fun, thats what its all about to me.


----------



## Highbeam

I burned a few cords of dry western red cedar through my BK 3 years ago. I didn’t like it and I normally a fan of burning anything if it’s dry. The weird oils and tars in the red cedar left a ton of brown oily soot everywhere in the firebox. Like fingering out the exhaust pipe on an old school bus. 

This particular cedar was all small diameter, under 8” or so which makes it extra oily in my experience. The big cedar logs I’ve burned were like 3’ across and the wood was less oily. 

I would prefer pine!


----------



## ratsrepus

Highbeam said:


> I burned a few cords of dry western red cedar through my BK 3 years ago. I didn’t like it and I normally a fan of burning anything if it’s dry. The weird oils and tars in the red cedar left a ton of brown oily soot everywhere in the firebox. Like fingering out the exhaust pipe on an old school bus.
> 
> This particular cedar was all small diameter, under 8” or so which makes it extra oily in my experience. The big cedar logs I’ve burned were like 3’ across and the wood was less oily.
> 
> I would prefer pine!


one would think that the cat would get plugged up


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

Hello .  I installed a BK King a year ago and enjoyed the heat all last winter.   I just cleaned the stove and chimney this week.  There was a lot of creosote in the firebox.  Huge chunks up along the tubes on either side, etc....  Even behind the metal plates on the sides were full  Is this normal or is it the fault of less than dry wood or throttling down the stat too quick or some other operator error?


----------



## stoveliker

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Hello .  I installed a BK King a year ago and enjoyed the heat all last winter.   I just cleaned the stove and chimney this week.  There was a lot of creosote in the firebox.  Huge chunks up along the tubes on either side, etc....  Even behind the metal plates on the sides were full  Is this normal or is it the fault of less than dry wood or throttling down the stat too quick or some other operator error?



That is normal for running the stove on low. You create creosote in the box. The cat is supposed to burn that off before it goes into the flue.

Best to clean at the end of the season; creosote is corrosive (esp. In humid summer weather). Best to have one blazing hot fire at the end (Tstat all the way open, bypass closed). It makes the creosote crusty and you can brush it off easily.


----------



## kennyp2339

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Hello .  I installed a BK King a year ago and enjoyed the heat all last winter.   I just cleaned the stove and chimney this week.  There was a lot of creosote in the firebox.  Huge chunks up along the tubes on either side, etc....  Even behind the metal plates on the sides were full  Is this normal or is it the fault of less than dry wood or throttling down the stat too quick or some other operator error?


I burn with the t-stat on high for an hour at least once a week, it really reduces the buildup inside the firebox.


----------



## Nealm66

Man, that would be kinda cool to have that in the user guide. Mine wasn’t too bad at all compared to my old pre epa stove.


----------



## ohlongarm

This is my fourth year burning a King Parlor, we burn 24/7 I'm wondering does the gasket checking method of a dollar bill to check the seal is accurate? I put a dollar bill in all four corners , as well as the middle of the door both top and bottom, the bill wouldn't budge if I pulled any harder it would tear. The gasket looks as clean as new. Am I good to go? THX


----------



## gthomas785

It sounds like your gaskets are in good shape. Do you have some reason to suspect otherwise? over firing, short burn, etc


----------



## ohlongarm

gthomas785 said:


> It sounds like your gaskets are in good shape. Do you have some reason to suspect otherwise? over firing, short burn, etc


Not at all just figuring four years lots of wood burnt , might be time to change it.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

Feeling better with this learning curve.  Thanks to everyone who replied.  Today I adjusted the knob on the t-stat.  It loosened up last winter and after I tightened it up realized it wasn't where it was originally.  I also added some bands to my stove pipe.  I have a very tall stove pipe made of three adjustable sections that will adjust out to 68" each.  Having 3 tiny screws being the only thing preventing those sections from sliding together was unsettling to me.  I bought three bands designed for 6" Class-A pipe that fit the diamater of my double wall 8" to act as "clamps" or "stops" for those slip joints.  Actually looks nice too, like accent rings.


----------



## Nealm66

Wow, that is a tall pipe


----------



## Nealm66

The bands look good, you bedazzled it


----------



## kennyp2339

ohlongarm said:


> Not at all just figuring four years lots of wood burnt , might be time to change it.


If you change out the door gasket, do the window, and if you dont want to change the window one out, just check and make sure the retainer bolts are snug holding the glass to the door,


----------



## Highbeam

ohlongarm said:


> Not at all just figuring four years lots of wood burnt , might be time to change it.



I've changed the door gasket once in the last 9 years at about the 4-5 year point. I did a much better job than the factory so I expect it to last longer and it has so far.  When you're ready, it's not a terribly difficult procedure but as Kenny points out, be sure to verify that the glass gasket and retainers are properly installed. My glass gasket was fine but the factory left a big chunk of welding slag (a rock) under the retainer brackets that once removed allowed me to properly snug all of the nuts that are buried under the door gasket.

Oh and you need an OEM blaze king gasket from a BK dealer. No aftermarket junk. The door seal is just too important on a cat stove like this.

The one I'm worried about is the bypass gasket. That bugger looks hard to access I can already imagine the sore neck! Luckily it's not quite as important.


----------



## showrguy

Highbeam said:


> I've changed the door gasket once in the last 9 years at about the 4-5 year point. I did a much better job than the factory so I expect it to last longer and it has so far.  When you're ready, it's not a terribly difficult procedure but as Kenny points out, be sure to verify that the glass gasket and retainers are properly installed. My glass gasket was fine but the factory left a big chunk of welding slag (a rock) under the retainer brackets that once removed allowed me to properly snug all of the nuts that are buried under the door gasket.
> 
> Oh and you need an OEM blaze king gasket from a BK dealer. No aftermarket junk. The door seal is just too important on a cat stove like this.
> 
> The one I'm worried about is the bypass gasket. That bugger looks hard to access I can already imagine the sore neck! Luckily it's not quite as important.


I did a bypass gasket in my princess last fall, you need to remove the CAT, the bipass plate will NOT come out, you need to move it around in there and work around it..
Spent a bunch of time trying to figure out how to manuver the plate to remove it,  lots of curse words were displayed, once I was convinced it was’nt coming out things went pretty well


----------



## Highbeam

showrguy said:


> I did a bipass gasket in my princess last fall, you need to remove the CAT, the bipass plate will NOT come out, you need to move it around in there and work around it..
> Spent a bunch of time trying to figure out how to manuver the plate to remove it,  lots of curse words were displayed, once I was convinced it was’nt coming out things went pretty well



When the time comes, I'm going to try to get that bypass plate out. It has to come out, they didn't build the stove around it!


----------



## Diabel

Highbeam said:


> When the time comes, I'm going to try to get that bypass plate out. It has to come out, they didn't build the stove around it!


Unless the engineers were from Germany haha


----------



## showrguy

Highbeam said:


> When the time comes, I'm going to try to get that bypass plate out. It has to come out, they didn't build the stove around it!


That’s exactly what I thought….. Please make a video when you attempt it, that’ll be fun..
Had I done a video, and had it edited for TV, you woulda thaught I was Tony Beets having a major issue with something that would’nt cooperate….  Lol


----------



## begreen

Considering this is a wearing part one would expect there to be a field service guide on this for dealers.


----------



## ohlongarm

Had the interior double walled chimney pipe removed yesterday for cleaning, it hadn't been cleaned since last year at this time.
About 8 feet all it had was some black discoloration , no buildup at all. The entire job took about 7 , 8 minutes. The exterior pipe was just a little black no creosote buildup at all maybe 1/10 of an inch, 3 swipes with the plastic brush and it was shiny.
The ash catch basin had about a quart of very fine particulates , consistency of fine sand , vacuumed up and done. The chimney cap had about a half inch of crusty creosote. It took less than a minute and it was clean. I must be doing something right all my wood is 18% or lower. Entire job took about 15 minutes. I'm running the minimum chimney height as recommended by BK.


----------



## stoveliker

while the minimum chimney height might in some cases give draft issues, the advantage is that the gases have less time to cool down. Hence a clean pipe (and a bit crusty cap). Nice!


----------



## ohlongarm

stoveliker said:


> while the minimum chimney height might in some cases give draft issues, the advantage is that the gases have less time to cool down. Hence a clean pipe (and a bit crusty cap). Nice!


Correct, only if it's very humid and rainy , I may have to crack the stove door a few minutes to draft properly. When it gets cold no issues.


----------



## clancey

Beautiful looking home but so so tall that piping is connected to the stove...I can see it burning better in the winter time with that long way to go up and getting a nice draft as well..I bet you have a pretty stove too..Why in the world would they make a part so hard to get out like that--to me they need another shot of thinking about it and how in the world would you clean your piping? Just curious don;t know much here..nice posting..clancey


----------



## Highbeam

showrguy said:


> That’s exactly what I thought….. Please make a video when you attempt it, that’ll be fun..
> Had I done a video, and had it edited for TV, you woulda thaught I was Tony Beets having a major issue with something that would’nt cooperate….  Lol


At the very least, I’ll take a picture of it removed if I can get it out.


----------



## Highbeam

clancey said:


> Beautiful looking home but so so tall that piping is connected to the stove...I can see it burning better in the winter time with that long way to go up and getting a nice draft as well..I bet you have a pretty stove too..Why in the world would they make a part so hard to get out like that--to me they need another shot of thinking about it and how in the world would you clean your piping? Just curious don;t know much here..nice posting..clancey



The bypass plate is thick steel, looks like 1/2”, and is not a wear item and does not need to be removed for stove cleaning. The bypass plate rests on a gasket that can be replaced and it would be desirable to get the bypass plate out of the stove for easier access to do that job.


----------



## clancey

Thanks that makes sense..clancey


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

Does anyone know where I can get a cleaning brush with a slightly smaller diameter for the double wall black pipe?  I used a very stiff bristle brush that seemed fine for the Class-A but it was very difficult to maneuver inside the double wall eight inch.  I had to push and pull way harder than I expected, to the point that the brush felt stuck a number of times.


----------



## showrguy

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Does anyone know where I can get a cleaning brush with a slightly smaller diameter for the double wall black pipe?  I used a very stiff bristle brush that seemed fine for the Class-A but it was very difficult to maneuver inside the double wall eight inch.  I had to push and pull way harder than I expected, to the point that the brush felt stuck a number of times.


Get yourself a Sooteater and never look back..
Clean from the inside, no more roof trips..


----------



## Alpine1

+1 for the sooteater. Easy peasy cleaning from bottom to top in just minutes.


----------



## Diabel

It must not be my day today. Here is a stupid question:
I want to tighten the door latch on my Bk. Watched a utube vid. (Some guy from Alaska). All he did was loosen the outside nut turned the latch clockwise couple of times and tighten the nut. Done. Well, when I loosen that nut….the latch becomes very loose and wobbly I can turn it all I want but when I tighten the nut again the latch comes to the same position as when I started the process! Do I need to loosen the nut in the firebox too?


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> It must not be my day today. Here is a stupid question:
> I want to tighten the door latch on my Bk. Watched a utube vid. (Some guy from Alaska). All he did was loosen the outside nut turned the latch clockwise couple of times and tighten the nut. Done. Well, when I loosen that nut….the latch becomes very loose and wobbly I can turn it all I want but when I tighten the nut again the latch comes to the same position as when I started the process! Do I need to loosen the nut in the firebox too?



There’s a funny trick. “ Old”princesses like mine at almost 10 years old had the inner nut welded to the inside of the firebox. That sucks because you need to adjust the latch in full turns only. I can’t just tighten it a little. Also, if those threads get buggered then I’m screwed.

Newer princesses have the inner nut loose so it’s harder to adjust but infinitely adjustable plus you can replace all of the nuts.

Sounds like you have the newer loose nuts and the guy on the video had the welded nut. Grab another wrench. I actually like loose nuts better but both work.


----------



## stoveliker

The manual says how to do it. Page 43 for the princess.


----------



## Nealm66

Highbeam said:


> There’s a funny trick. “ Old”princesses like mine at almost 10 years old had the inner nut welded to the inside of the firebox. That sucks because you need to adjust the latch in full turns only. I can’t just tighten it a little. Also, if those threads get buggered then I’m screwed.
> 
> Newer princesses have the inner nut loose so it’s harder to adjust but infinitely adjustable plus you can replace all of the nuts.
> 
> Sounds like you have the newer loose nuts and the guy on the video had the welded nut. Grab another wrench. I actually like loose nuts better but both work.


That’s nuts


----------



## Diabel

Thanks
It was mid 50s this morning so I lit her up. It will be in low 70s for the next 4 days. Will adjust the latch tomorrow afternoon and report. The manual says to loosen the outside retaining nut slightly and then turn the inside nut accordingly.


----------



## ratsrepus

Highbeam, if you figure it out let us know.  maybe the higher ups at BK will shed some light


----------



## Highbeam

ratsrepus said:


> Highbeam, if you figure it out let us know.  maybe the higher ups at BK will shed some light


How to get the bypass plate out? I think the secret lies with getting the operating rod out of the loop first  and then trying to rotate it just right. I’m sure bkvp knows the answer and I know he changed the bypass gasket on his king before upgrading to the new king.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> How to get the bypass plate out?


On the 30 boxes it comes out through the hole made by taking the combustor out.


----------



## kf6hap

Help! My Ashford 30.1 is stuck on high. When turning the thermostat shut the damper does not clack so I figure it is stuck open. 

I tried tapping on the rear covers, cycling/wiggling  the thermostat knob and tapping on it as hard as I dare. Francisco at Blaze King said it would just be running on high until the wood burns out so it should not over heat. 

Any suggestions?????????


----------



## ratsrepus

kf6hap said:


> Help! My Ashford 30.1 is stuck on high. When turning the thermostat shut the damper does not clack so I figure it is stuck open.
> 
> I tried tapping on the rear covers, cycling/wiggling  the thermostat knob and tapping on it as hard as I dare. Francisco at Blaze King said it would just be running on high until the wood burns out so it should not over heat.
> 
> Any suggestions?????????


yes, take
 the back cover off and check it, two outer screws, nit the center one. I take mine off to lube the system, no big deal. one more thing, make sure  its turned down on low before reinstalling


----------



## kennyp2339

kf6hap said:


> Help! My Ashford 30.1 is stuck on high. When turning the thermostat shut the damper does not clack so I figure it is stuck open.
> 
> I tried tapping on the rear covers, cycling/wiggling  the thermostat knob and tapping on it as hard as I dare. Francisco at Blaze King said it would just be running on high until the wood burns out so it should not over heat.
> 
> Any suggestions?????????


Is it stuck open or did it not hit temp yet?


----------



## kf6hap

Stuck open. Full fire for 3 hours. Not overheating but mighty hot.
I will disassemble it tomorrow but for now it is extremely hot.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

showrguy said:


> Get yourself a Sooteater and never look back..
> Clean from the inside, no more roof trips.


Ok.  I just bought the Sooteater.  Only used it to come from the top down through the Class A (6 ft) to get the two 45's and short section at the top.  I'm assuming you take your pipe off the stove and clean up from the bottom?  How do you keep that from pouring mess all over?  I had quite a mess with the brush and had to use the shop vac every few minutes.  I tried the bag  trick but was working so hard to get the oversized brush unstuck and to move up and down that the bags tore.  $24 for a two pack of Sooteater rods here at Menards. Hy-C brand.


----------



## Highbeam

kf6hap said:


> Help! My Ashford 30.1 is stuck on high. When turning the thermostat shut the damper does not clack so I figure it is stuck open.
> 
> I tried tapping on the rear covers, cycling/wiggling  the thermostat knob and tapping on it as hard as I dare. Francisco at Blaze King said it would just be running on high until the wood burns out so it should not over heat.
> 
> Any suggestions?????????


Francisco is really smart but a flapper pinned open on max high is not the same thing as setting the thermostat to max. When the stat is set to max it will automatically close the intake valve to prevent over fire and damage. That won’t happen if the intake valve is actually pinned.


----------



## Highbeam

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Ok.  I just bought the Sooteater.  Only used it to come from the top down through the Class A (6 ft) to get the two 45's and short section at the top.  I'm assuming you take your pipe off the stove and clean up from the bottom?  How do you keep that from pouring mess all over?  I had quite a mess with the brush and had to use the shop vac every few minutes.  I tried the bag  trick but was working so hard to get the oversized brush unstuck and to move up and down that the bags tore.  $24 for a two pack of Sooteater rods here at Menards. Hy-C brand.



Don’t take pipe off until you’re done sweeping. Shove the sooteater right up through the bypass opening and up the stack.


----------



## Poindexter

kf6hap said:


> Stuck open. Full fire for 3 hours. Not overheating but mighty hot.
> I will disassemble it tomorrow but for now it is extremely hot.


Sounds like my January.  Stove is probably fine.  Once it has cooled down you will need to take the  cover with the "can't touch this" markings on it to get at the thermostat and air valve innards.

I don't remember the exact fitting on the screw heads, on mine it is one of the star drives.  One of my kids got me a 64 bit set of all the usual suspects that aren't torx for Christmas one year and it is in that set.  I had mine open once about 3-4  years ago and may open it up again this spring.  You don't need a $50 ratchet attachment from snap-on, you won't be in there that often, sleazy Italian scrap tin is fine for the driver bit.  Some folks here open theirs every year to lube the thermostat mechanism, more power to them.

While you are fooling with this, find the correct allen wrench to adjust the knob on the Tstat as well, that setting is one and done for the life of the stove if you don't have the overtightening disease.

Once you have it open the fix will be either self evident or something Francisco can walk you through easily, recall he is in the Pacific time zone.


----------



## kennyp2339

kf6hap said:


> Stuck open. Full fire for 3 hours. Not overheating but mighty hot.
> I will disassemble it tomorrow but for now it is extremely hot.


Before messing with the actual T-stat, turn the knob you should range of motion from 7am to 6pm on the knob and with a flash light see of the rod is also turning that the knob is attached to, this makes sure that the knob isnt floating, if it is then call BK again and get the fix, more then likely the actual T stat shouldnt be stuck, but the knob attached to the rod that turns the butterfly is off the notch and needs to be reset


----------



## Dieselhead

Highbeam said:


> Don’t take pipe off until you’re done sweeping. Shove the sooteater right up through the bypass opening and up the stack.


That weedwacker head really does as well of a job as the traditional top down nylon brushes? I’d be interested in not scaling the roof each season.


----------



## kf6hap

Well,  it is 0500 and the stove is cool so I will disassemble when it is light.  This little episode proved something very valuable to know. Even though the thermostat is pegged wide open -not the same as turning the thermostat fully CW-  the stove did not go into runaway mode where an ever increasing flue draft causes an ever increasing stove temperature resulting in "red topping".  This is the historic problem with old wood stoves. With a full load of very dry small splits the stove became quite hot but did not overheat. It failed safely.


----------



## Tron

Bill in the U.P. said:


> I'm assuming you take your pipe off the stove and clean up from the bottom?  How do you keep that from pouring mess all over?  I had quite a mess with the brush and had to use the shop vac every few minutes.  I tried the bag  trick but was working so hard to get the oversized brush unstuck and to move up and down that the bags tore.


I use a 5-gal bucket in which I drilled a hole in the bottom where the rod can pass through. I then take off the lower section of pipe and tape the bucket to the pipe with painter's tape. With my wife providing additional support, only very little soot rains down through the hole.

It is a little messy, but if you go in through the bypass hole you don't have the opportunity to vacuum behind the cat.


----------



## showrguy

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Ok.  I just bought the Sooteater.  Only used it to come from the top down through the Class A (6 ft) to get the two 45's and short section at the top.  I'm assuming you take your pipe off the stove and clean up from the bottom?  How do you keep that from pouring mess all over?  I had quite a mess with the brush and had to use the shop vac every few minutes.  I tried the bag  trick but was working so hard to get the oversized brush unstuck and to move up and down that the bags tore.  $24 for a two pack of Sooteater rods here at Menards. Hy-C brand.


Nope, I go through the stove, through the bipass, have the wife hold an old sheet or something over the door opening to keep dust at a minimum..
Then move stove pipe and shopvac the behind the cat area, done..
Mine is a straight shot 35’ off of the stove, I was assuming your’s  was straight as well..


----------



## kf6hap

Problem found. Last spring when I lubed the thermostat it must have been full open when I replaced the cover. The limiting screw was preventing the damper from going full closed. The thermostat must be fully CCW when re-installing the thermostat cover.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

Highbeam said:


> Don’t take pipe off until you’re done sweeping. Shove the sooteater right up through the bypass opening and up the stack.


Ok, I like your advice.  Seems like there would be way less mess and I can clean out the top of the stove at the end.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

showrguy said:


> Nope, I go through the stove, through the bipass, have the wife hold an old sheet or something over the door opening to keep dust at a minimum..
> Then move stove pipe and shopvac the behind the cat area, done..
> Mine is a straight shot 35’ off of the stove, I was assuming your’s  was straight as well..


Had to go around the roof truss at the top.  Used the Sooteater from the top down for just that top portion (45's and the short section between them).  I would think it would manage from the bottom too.


----------



## showrguy

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Had to go around the roof truss at the top.  Used the Sooteater from the top down for just that top portion (45's and the short section between them).  I would think it would manage from the bottom too.
> 
> View attachment 283202


Yup, I shove all the rods with the head till it hits the cap, then attach the drill and spin it all the way down.


----------



## Highbeam

showrguy said:


> Yup, I shove all the rods with the head till it hits the cap, then attach the drill and spin it all the way down.


I spin it on its way up clockwise and then on its way down counterclockwise because I’m a nerd. Also put on a few sections at a time to make life easier. Pump it a bit and spend extra time at the cap because BKs make a mess out of the cap. 

At the end, lift pipe off of stove and vacuum out behind cat. You can do this from below but it’s more thorough from above. Then, before putting the pipe back on, lube the bypass mechanism.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Then, before putting the pipe back on, lube the bypass mechanism.


What's the preferred lube for that? Graphite?
I'd say any petroleum-based lubes are out of the game here.


----------



## stoveliker

Graphite or moly (disulfide), I'd say


----------



## kf6hap

I use high temp 2,600F, anti-seize.  The oil base of the  lube will burn away but the other components (nickel, molybdenum etc.) will remain slick and last until next year. The brush in the can cap makes application neat and easy.


----------



## Tron

I'd be careful with MoS2 lube, as that's usually in a petroleum matrix. Which likely will burn away and leave gunk.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> What's the preferred lube for that? Graphite?
> I'd say any petroleum-based lubes are out of the game here.


Anti seize lubicant. Yes, it's a petroleum base but no it doesn't leave anything behind that does anything bad. It just takes away the squeak and improves the feel. I would consider this lubrication an optional step and I actually forgot about it this year but don't think it's worth taking the pipe apart for.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Anti seize lubicant. Yes, it's a petroleum base but no it doesn't leave anything behind that does anything bad. It just takes away the squeak and improves the feel. I would consider this lubrication an optional step and I actually forgot about it this year but don't think it's worth taking the pipe apart for.


Same here, I cleaned the pipe but totally forgot about the bypass flap. Next year, then ;-)


----------



## stoveliker

I have MoS2 without oil, same as graphite. I would also be hesitant to add something with oil - but the experiment says it works, apparently...


----------



## Poindexter

I got the high temp anti sieze from NAPA.  It was years ago, but I got a nice lady on the phone when I called the factory who said any of them would be fine.  I later confirmed this with BKVP, I think at the time NAPA was selling copper nickel and platinum (?), BKVP said any of them were adequate for the thermostat application.


----------



## BKVP

kf6hap said:


> Problem found. Last spring when I lubed the thermostat it must have been full open when I replaced the cover. The limiting screw was preventing the damper from going full closed. The thermostat must be fully CCW when re-installing the thermostat cover.


How you know why we have the warning label!  Now it will work as intended.  I'm glad to read Francisco is helping you out.  He is an exceptional employee.


----------



## BKVP

I may buy a Sooteater...but I too use the 5-gallon bucket with hole in the bottom.  My KE40 (and all prior King models) has a adjustable section of double wall.  I slide the pipe up, with brush attached to first section of rod, push up and down, then add 3' rod and repeat.  Essentially I repeat this process all the way to the cap.  My cap is never as bad as some other may be but when I get to the top, I spin the rod clockwise. (Not CCW because I might unscrew the brush!)

I did learn to tilt the 5 gallon bucket slightly and that way very little creosote makes it way to the hole where the rod penetrates the bottom of the bucket.


----------



## moresnow

BKVP said:


> I may buy a Sooteater...but I too use the 5-gallon bucket with hole in the bottom.  My KE40 (and all prior King models) has a adjustable section of double wall.  I slide the pipe up, with brush attached to first section of rod, push up and down, then add 3' rod and repeat.  Essentially I repeat this process all the way to the cap.  My cap is never as bad as some other may be but when I get to the top, I spin the rod clockwise. (Not CCW because I might unscrew the brush!)
> 
> I did learn to tilt the 5 gallon bucket slightly and that way very little creosote makes it way to the hole where the rod penetrates the bottom of the bucket.


Same cleaning method here except I use a plastic bag in place of the bucket. I also put a old bedsheet over the stove to keep any grit from getting in the fans. I use a Sooteater also. I bought a extra Sooteater head this summer which I will cut extra long for better cap cleaning.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

I would like to have a new combuster on site for when the stove is ready for one.  I have a one year old King.  The nearest BK dealer is 4.5 hour away.  Can I order one online?  (sorry if this was previously covered, none of my searches bore fruit).


----------



## kennyp2339

Bill in the U.P. said:


> I would like to have a new combuster on site for when the stove is ready for one.  I have a one year old King.  The nearest BK dealer is 4.5 hour away.  Can I order one online?  (sorry if this was previously covered, none of my searches bore fruit).


Midwesthearth.com


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

kennyp2339 said:


> Midwesthearth.com


Thank you.


----------



## Diabel

Diabel said:


> It must not be my day today. Here is a stupid question:
> I want to tighten the door latch on my Bk. Watched a utube vid. (Some guy from Alaska). All he did was loosen the outside nut turned the latch clockwise couple of times and tighten the nut. Done. Well, when I loosen that nut….the latch becomes very loose and wobbly I can turn it all I want but when I tighten the nut again the latch comes to the same position as when I started the process! Do I need to loosen the nut in the firebox too?


Latch tighten! Loosened retainer nut (one on the outside). While holding the actual latch with vise gripes rotated the inside nut couple rotations clockwise. Tightened the retainer nut.  Latch nice and tight. 
I am sure the door seal was still sealing fine just judging by the behavior of the fire and burn times but latching required zero pressure…..I could do it with my left pinkie……


----------



## Highbeam

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Thank you.



I am on my second or third cat from them. Happy customer. I keep a spare on the shelf ready to go. There have been shortages with other brands and with the current supply chain issues for everything I wanted a replacement on hand.


----------



## ratsrepus

I keep spares  on hand, also have a door gasket for each stove


----------



## circle_burner

Hey guys.
Long time lurker short time cat burner.
We replaced our 80's wood electric burner with a ke40 and I'm loving this 2020 king.  it's breathing through 32' of double wall pipe inside the interior masonry chimney.
currently sipping pine and loading enough to carry it for 12 hour reloads with PLENTY of room left over.


----------



## Nealm66

circle_burner said:


> Hey guys.
> Long time lurker short time cat burner.
> We replaced our 80's wood electric burner with a ke40 and I'm loving this 2020 king.  it's breathing through 32' of double wall pipe inside the interior masonry chimney.
> currently sipping pine and loading enough to carry it for 12 hour reloads with PLENTY of room left over.


That looks like a good setup !


----------



## clancey

Sure does look nice and I bet the heat goes up those steps too...clancey


----------



## circle_burner

clancey said:


> Sure does look nice and I bet the heat goes up those steps too...clancey



You bet. The heat also goes up via the 3'x3' opening in the floor that is behind and to the right of the stove. Then it's an open all the way to the 2nd floor.


----------



## begreen

circle_burner said:


> it's breathing through 32' of double wall pipe inside the interior masonry chimney.


Is this 2 ply stainless liner or actual double-wall connector pipe?


----------



## circle_burner

Nealm66 said:


> That looks like a good setup !


Thanks! I'm heating 3600ft of combo log home that leaks like Swiss cheese. 

The stove is in the partially finished basement with a pretty straight shot up to the living areas.

 Running it steady and low I'm able to keep the house between 19-21C. This week we've had outside temperatures between -5 and 9C.


----------



## circle_burner

begreen said:


> Is this 2 ply stainless liner or actual double-wall connector pipe?



Its all double wall and mostly 48" sections of rigid pipe. We weren't sure it would fit in the 10" clay liner that was NFG


----------



## begreen

circle_burner said:


> Its all double wall and mostly 48" sections of rigid pipe. We weren't sure it would fit in the 10" clay liner that was NFG


What product?  It's probably fine, but normally double wall pipe is connector. However, there is an exception. Is this DuraLiner?


----------



## circle_burner

begreen said:


> What product?  It's probably fine, but normally double wall pipe is connector. However, there is an exception. Is this DuraLiner?



Its Duravent brand duraliner. 
Part number  8-dlr 48.
They hosed me over 300$ a section.

The chimney was a big part of the cost of the install, but it pulls like a train.


----------



## Nealm66

Do the smaller 12 hour pine loads work for keeping the house from getting too warm? I played with with smaller fires and found just letting them go out worked better than keeping a small fire burning. Finally cooled off enough around here I can keep it going on low - 24ish -princess. Was curious how that would work with the king


----------



## begreen

circle_burner said:


> Its Duravent brand duraliner.
> Part number  8-dlr 48.
> They hosed me over 300$ a section.
> 
> The chimney was a big part of the cost of the install, but it pulls like a train.


Good deal. That's the right stuff. Ouch on the charge.


----------



## circle_burner

Nealm66 said:


> Do the smaller 12 hour pine loads work for keeping the house from getting too warm? I played with with smaller fires and found just letting them go out worked better than keeping a small fire burning. Finally cooled off enough around here I can keep it going on low - 24ish -princess. Was curious how that would work with the king



I imagine it would be the same with the king in your situation.  

I'm guessing  it's the brand new hyper active cat allowing these long low burns without it stalling. we'll see how it acts in spring shoulder season.

It does leave the logs left along the side walls as coals for next load.


----------



## BKVP

begreen said:


> Good deal. That's the right stuff. Ouch on the charge.


$300 Canadian.....


----------



## sacountry

My new BK.  What I've learned and what I'd like to know.  

I learned that burning low/slow causes creosote building up on the glass.  I've also learned that a prolonged "hot" fire with the tstat wide open will self clean the glass, much like a self cleaning oven.  

What I've also learned is that my wife likes a very hot stove, but to her credit we leaned on the BK vs turning on the propane furnace when temps dropped into the teens this last week.  So it's very encouraging to see the big belly of this BK tackle that challenge.

My concern, and thus what I would like to know, are there any risks with extended "hot" burns vs the low/slow burns this stove is known for?  Burning fuels found in NW Montana including larch, Doug fir, and Lodge pole, typically finding stuff that's been seasoned at least a couple of years in full log form .   Recall I replaced a BK that had melted internal steel plates that probably was caused from burning duraflame type logs.


----------



## kennyp2339

sacountry said:


> My new BK.  What I've learned and what I'd like to know.
> 
> I learned that burning low/slow causes creosote building up on the glass.  I've also learned that a prolonged "hot" fire with the tstat wide open will self clean the glass, much like a self cleaning oven.
> 
> What I've also learned is that my wife likes a very hot stove, but to her credit we leaned on the BK vs turning on the propane furnace when temps dropped into the teens this last week.  So it's very encouraging to see the big belly of this BK tackle that challenge.
> 
> My concern, and thus what I would like to know, are there any risks with extended "hot" burns vs the low/slow burns this stove is known for?  Burning fuels found in NW Montana including larch, Doug fir, and Lodge pole, typically finding stuff that's been seasoned at least a couple of years in full log form .   Recall I replaced a BK that had melted internal steel plates that probably was caused from burning duraflame type logs.


As long as your draft is within the parameters of .05" wc running hot should have no effects other then shorter burn times, the stove is designed to not over-fire or damage internal components. Also if you choose to run at high settings after a few weeks pull the flame shield and check the cat for any scaling between the cells.
When the temps drop by me I'll run the princess on a higher setting, never had an issue, what you'll find though is that the BK can maintain house temps with its steady flat output, Once you find your cruise zone you'll see what I'm saying, I tend to shift to 8-12hr burns once we dip into the lower 20's and below outside, when we get the occasional single digits or below zero I'll use some oil heat to.


----------



## MissMac

sacountry said:


> My new BK.  What I've learned and what I'd like to know.
> 
> I learned that burning low/slow causes creosote building up on the glass.  I've also learned that a prolonged "hot" fire with the tstat wide open will self clean the glass, much like a self cleaning oven.
> 
> What I've also learned is that my wife likes a very hot stove, but to her credit we leaned on the BK vs turning on the propane furnace when temps dropped into the teens this last week.  So it's very encouraging to see the big belly of this BK tackle that challenge.
> 
> My concern, and thus what I would like to know, are there any risks with extended "hot" burns vs the low/slow burns this stove is known for?  Burning fuels found in NW Montana including larch, Doug fir, and Lodge pole, typically finding stuff that's been seasoned at least a couple of years in full log form .   Recall I replaced a BK that had melted internal steel plates that probably was caused from burning duraflame type logs.


In deep winter, I will run my Sirocco wide open on a load of jack pine with no problems.  The stove pings and groans every once in awhile, but I haven't had any issues.  Wide open burns happened a lot my first year before I learned the subtle nuances of the stove.  Now I find that even in the coldest weather, I can dial my stove down a bit and use the fan to achieve the same heating results.


----------



## kennyp2339

I also forgot to add that it is recommended by BK in the manual to run one wide open fire a week to burn off creosote that forms in the firebox from low burns.


----------



## Highbeam

Just be sure to close the bypass when the cat temperature gauge indicates active and then the stat is supposed to prevent damage to the stove.

These Bk stoves get very hot but can also can run low and slow. That range of outputs is why they are so valuable.

When burning the pitchy bottom sections of Doug fir I find the flue temperatures can climb higher than I like during high burns so I back it down a bit. Perhaps I’m being overly cautious but I don’t need as much heat as some people so it works out.

Oh and 12 hours on pine in a king is no big deal. Fill that firebox tight with pine and crank the thermostat down to a setting so low that the cat meter stays in the middle of the range and I wouldn’t be surprised if it can do 20.


----------



## Nealm66

I think running on high is a waste of heat. I leave mine at it’s sweet spot and let it do it’s thing. It seems like it kicks up a little when it’s colder out on its own and I even see some rolling flames. I hear you about the Doug fir. Would make me nervous to leave it open


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> I think running on high is a waste of heat. I leave mine at it’s sweet spot and let it do it’s thing. It seems like it kicks up a little when it’s colder out on its own and I even see some rolling flames. I hear you about the Doug fir. Would make me nervous to leave it open



I find that it smokes a lot more with the high pitch at higher settings too. Blue to black emissions. Honestly the noncat does it too with pitch. Some pieces have surface pitch and some are soaked all the way through. On lower burn rates, once at steady state, the Bk cat system is able to eat the pitch smoke. 

I’m talking real pitch. What some folks would call fat wood. I burn a lot of logging waste which often includes the butts.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I find that it smokes a lot more with the high pitch at higher settings too. Blue to black emissions. Honestly the noncat does it too with pitch. Some pieces have surface pitch and some are soaked all the way through. On lower burn rates, once at steady state, the Bk cat system is able to eat the pitch smoke.
> 
> I’m talking real pitch. What some folks would call fat wood. I burn a lot of logging waste which often includes the butts.



Does that suggest that the cat should have been a bit bigger in order to eat all that is generated when running fast? After all, pine and fir is a "staple" food for BKs in some places, so it's not an exception in its use...


----------



## sacountry

Nealm66 said:


> I think running on high is a waste of heat. I leave mine at it’s sweet spot and let it do it’s thing. It seems like it kicks up a little when it’s colder out on its own and I even see some rolling flames. I hear you about the Doug fir. Would make me nervous to leave it open


I don't disagree.  There's a little cat n mouse I'm playing with my wife right now.  She'll turn the tstat wide open to the 6:00 position before bed and I'll sneak downstairs to close it down to about the 3:00 position.  The difference in philosophy....I'm trying to make the wood last through the night, she's trying maintain the home's upper 60 degree temp so we don't have to play catch-up in the morning.  Soon the cat n mouse game will involve her running the chain saws and log splitter


----------



## stoveliker

sacountry said:


> I don't disagree.  There's a little cat n mouse I'm playing with my wife right now.  She'll turn the tstat wide open to the 6:00 position before bed and I'll sneak downstairs to close it down to about the 3:00 position.  The difference in philosophy....I'm trying to make the wood last through the night, she's trying maintain the home's upper 60 degree temp so we don't have to play catch-up in the morning.  Soon the cat n mouse game will involve her running the chain saws and log splitter



Let her win. Its results in dresscode at home may please you.


----------



## sacountry

stoveliker said:


> Let her win. Its results in dresscode at home may please you.


That was the hardest I've laughed on a message board in a long time.


----------



## Nealm66

Lol. This is my second season. I told my wife if she got could she could adjust the swoosh and she did a couple times but hasn’t messed with it much at all. House is pretty well insulated and creeps into the mid to upper 70’s towards the evening this time of year but I have it on a nice 24 hour setting so I’ll let it be.


----------



## Nealm66

One thing I tried this year was to open the door to insulated  3 car garage. Odd but doesn’t  make any difference. Guessing it just heated it and that heated the above space. No clue. Princess didn’t care


----------



## stoveliker

sacountry said:


> That was the hardest I've laughed on a message board in a long time.



I believe it was pointdexter who came up with this strategy.


----------



## BKVP

sacountry said:


> That was the hardest I've laughed on a message board in a long time.


Just read the post from our friend in Fairbanks about wife attire.  That will bust you up.  You could also remove the thermostat knob, but that would be a pain to reinstall each time.  Yup, let her win.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Does that suggest that the cat should have been a bit bigger in order to eat all that is generated when running fast? After all, pine and fir is a "staple" food for BKs in some places, so it's not an exception in its use...



I think it is possible and well documented that you can overwhelm the catalyst with certain fuels and certain burn rates. However, as BKVP has stated and supported with documentation, the huge majority of burners spend the huge majority of the time burning at low burn  rates so there is probably a tipping point or trade off. Certainly in cost for a bigger cat but when tuning a stove to burn clean at high rates you might lose some abilities on the more important bottom end. Like a hot cam in a car engine has a crappy idle.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I think it is possible and well documented that you can overwhelm the catalyst with certain fuels and certain burn rates. However, as BKVP has stated and supported with documentation, the huge majority of burners spend the huge majority of the time burning at low burn  rates so there is probably a tipping point or trade off. Certainly in cost for a bigger cat but when tuning a stove to burn clean at high rates you might lose some abilities on the more important bottom end. Like a hot cam in a car engine has a crappy idle.



Most of those overwhelm situations are I think at low burn rates, generating lots of fuel, more than can be combusted. 

I wonder if at the high rate end of the spectrum, the residence time of those gases inside the cat is not long enough for reaching a high fraction of cat-mediated oxidation of those gases. High rate is more flow, so things rush through the cat. - But indeed a thicker (longer channel, longer residence time) cat could be problematic at low rate/low draft situations.


----------



## sacountry

stoveliker said:


> Most of those overwhelm situations are I think at low burn rates, generating lots of fuel, more than can be combusted.
> 
> I wonder if at the high rate end of the spectrum, the residence time of those gases inside the cat is not long enough for reaching a high fraction of cat-mediated oxidation of those gases. High rate is more flow, so things rush through the cat. - But indeed a thicker (longer channel, longer residence time) cat could be problematic at low rate/low draft situations.


This is good.  You guys are helping me wrap my mind around the science of the heat and flow rate specific to the cat.   I struggle with the cam analogy because we aren't talking about moving parts which obviously wear from friction.  I also struggle with gas moving too fast through cat as an area for failure.....certainly an area for reduced efficiency, but I don't understand how that could result in increased wear.


----------



## stoveliker

We are speculating, having somewhat educated guesses... And analogies often work only up to a certain extent.


----------



## Highbeam

sacountry said:


> This is good.  You guys are helping me wrap my mind around the science of the heat and flow rate specific to the cat.   I struggle with the cam analogy because we aren't talking about moving parts which obviously wear from friction.  I also struggle with gas moving too fast through cat as an area for failure.....certainly an area for reduced efficiency, but I don't understand how that could result in increased wear.



When we talk about overwhelming the cat we’re not talking about wear or damage but that too much fuel is passing through the catalyst unburned because flow rate is too high, residence time too low, or just too dang much fuel. Unburned fuel going up the chimney is wasted heat and ugly emissions so we want to keep it down. 

Some of us older folks used to replace camshafts in car engines for performance. You could choose a camshaft optimized for high rpm with poor low rpm performance or get the opposite. It’s about trade offs. You could also buy a camshaft like the original that was pretty good at everything but sometimes left a little performance on the table at the low end and top end. That seems to be what Bk did with the stove. Optimized for low/medium output but still pretty good at high output. 

I’ve never heard of a cat overwhelmed at low output. That’s where the BK is most efficient and has the lowest emissions. 

The Bk design hasn’t changed much over the decades despite huge restrictions in emissions rates. Same cat has been used for decades in my princess. I just wish it would last longer.


----------



## Nealm66

I’m getting pretty consistent 24 hours and still plenty of coals to relight at current outside temp averages and I have a mark on my swoosh where this seems to happen. Would a failing cat start burning for less time and that would signal thinking about replacement?


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I’ve never heard of a cat overwhelmed at low output. That’s where the BK is most efficient and has the lowest emissions.



What I meant was if you char on high, and too suddenly go all the way to your lowest setting, the cat can stall at that low setting. I think because of too much fuel. (Hence the "decrease in steps" instructions in the manual.)


----------



## sacountry

Coming back to my original question.  Doesn't appear as though my wife can overburn/harm the BK King, but I do need to highlight to her the wasted gas/fuel that goes out the stack when burning on high....not to mentioned that she remain comfortably dressed all winter long in the 3:00-3:30 position on the tstat.   

I have to admit I really like the control the stove has over the flame.  I can dial right down to a flicker of a slow flame further yet to just keeping the coals hot, "black in the box" as I'm learning you guys like to say.  I never imagined that kind of control in a stove.  With propane prices set to spike by 40% in my area, I'm really hoping our 8 cord wood supply is enough.  Might have to go harvest a couple more logs just to make sure.


----------



## circle_burner

stoveliker said:


> What I meant was if you char on high, and too suddenly go all the way to your lowest setting, the cat can stall at that low setting. I think because of too much fuel. (Hence the "decrease in steps" instructions in the manual.)


When I turn down too fast my cat temp spikes on the stock thermometer.


----------



## stoveliker

circle_burner said:


> When I turn down too fast my cat temp spikes on the stock thermometer.



Sometimes it does, and sometimes it essentially stalls for me.


----------



## stoveliker

sacountry said:


> Coming back to my original question.  Doesn't appear as though my wife can overburn/harm the BK King, but I do need to highlight to her the wasted gas/fuel that goes out the stack when burning on high....not to mentioned that she remain comfortably dressed all winter long in the 3:00-3:30 position on the tstat.
> 
> I have to admit I really like the control the stove has over the flame.  I can dial right down to a flicker of a slow flame further yet to just keeping the coals hot, "black in the box" as I'm learning you guys like to say.  I never imagined that kind of control in a stove.  With propane prices set to spike by 40% in my area, I'm really hoping our 8 cord wood supply is enough.  Might have to go harvest a couple more logs just to make sure.



Even running on high, the efficiency is still way, way better than the pre-EPA stoves. Don't worry about wasted energy. Yes, on high your flue will be a bit warmer. But if it's -10 F  (or for some other unmentionable reason) you need the heat so you run on high. 

Check what's coming out of your chimney every now and then. Learn to see when it's steam (white, and dissolving in a couple of feet) versus smoke (bluish, grey, not dissolving, but diluting in air). The latter means your (new, so good) cat is not doing what it's supposed to do.


----------



## sacountry

stoveliker said:


> Even running on high, the efficiency is still way, way better than the pre-EPA stoves. Don't worry about wasted energy. Yes, on high your flue will be a bit warmer. But if it's -10 F  (or for some other unmentionable reason) you need the heat so you run on high.
> 
> Check what's coming out of your chimney every now and then. Learn to see when it's steam (white, and dissolving in a couple of feet) versus smoke (bluish, grey, not dissolving, but diluting in air). The latter means your (new, so good) cat is not doing what it's supposed to do.


That's an interesting data point to check out.  Never thought about seeing the effects of the cat by looking at what evacuates the pipe.


----------



## Diabel

Nealm66 said:


> I’m getting pretty consistent 24 hours and still plenty of coals to relight at current outside temp averages and I have a mark on my swoosh where this seems to happen. Would a failing cat start burning for less time and that would signal thinking about replacement?


Failing “cat” less heat into the house, smoke out the pipe. I believe your stove is relatively new 1 or 2 winter seasons . I think you are ok, the cat is still good.


----------



## Highbeam

sacountry said:


> That's an interesting data point to check out.  Never thought about seeing the effects of the cat by looking at what evacuates the pipe.



Visible emissions during the burn even though the cat temp indicates active is probably the best signal that your cat has worn out and will soon need to be replaced. I need to replace mine every 18 months of burning which takes about 2 years since I heat 100% with wood. The king has a bigger cat and maybe lasts a little bit longer but start paying attention after 10,000 hours.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> I’m getting pretty consistent 24 hours and still plenty of coals to relight at current outside temp averages and I have a mark on my swoosh where this seems to happen. Would a failing cat start burning for less time and that would signal thinking about replacement?



The beauty of a thermostatic air control. Since the worn catalyst is not burning all the fuel it is making less heat, the thermostat responds by feeding the fire more air, house stays warm but fuel burns faster. That’s what happens at medium and higher settings. At low output settings, the worn cat will stall easier so you need to turn up the thermostat or you will get a dripping tar mess out of your chimney cap. 

I still have some of the tar drips. They are very hard to clean. Cats don’t last forever!


----------



## begreen

Highbeam said:


> I still have some of the tar drips. They are very hard to clean.


Try taking a portable torch to them to soften, then scrape.


----------



## ratsrepus

First fire of the season in the Ashford,  3 small splits  78 in house door walls open.


----------



## Poindexter

I don't put a sap ball bigger than a golf ball, or a sapsicle with about golf ball of sap into mine for cold starts, and tend to put those in the middle or the back.

For baseball sized globules, I want a significant bed of hot coals and a combustor in the active zone for a hot reload.  For big sap globs I want a raging active hungry combustor, not a tarry mess to clean up.

In the kind of weather where I am looking for baseball sized chunks of sap it is too cold to be walking around the yard looking at the stack plume.  If I wasn't getting a noticeable heat spike out of them wouldn't burn sap globs and sapsicles.

I will say don't put more than one baseball size chunk of sap into your BK at a time.  And it needs to be dry, with sharp corners on it that are biting into your skin, not putty.

When it is cold enough for my oil burning boiler to be pushing 70% duty cycle on backup duty, that is when I look for sap globs.


----------



## Poindexter

Looking for my second and third hot reload of the season this weekend, forecast high isn't above freezing again until Sunday afternoon. 

Running a bit late this year, but not late enough to put on sack cloth and ashes to prostelytize in the streets.  The squirrels are acting like snow bound freeze up is near, more or less on time.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter said:


> Looking for my second and third hot reload of the season this weekend, forecast high isn't above freezing again until Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Running a bit late this year, but not late enough to put on sack cloth and ashes to prostelytize in the streets.  The squirrels are acting like snow bound freeze up is near, more or less on time.


What's current heating oil price up there?


----------



## ABMax24

Highbeam said:


> I find that it smokes a lot more with the high pitch at higher settings too. Blue to black emissions. Honestly the noncat does it too with pitch. Some pieces have surface pitch and some are soaked all the way through. On lower burn rates, once at steady state, the Bk cat system is able to eat the pitch smoke.
> 
> I’m talking real pitch. What some folks would call fat wood. I burn a lot of logging waste which often includes the butts.



I believe this to be a function of the terpenes within the resins of many softwoods causing this. I have noticed the same in my tube stove where the resins partially burn and produce soot that can escape up the flue. Terpenes usually contain 5-20 carbon atoms per molecule and just like the hydrocarbons found in gasoline in diesel can be difficult to burn completely in open air without left over hydrocarbons or soot.

Comparably many of the other products of wood smoke are easy to completely combust; CO, methane, alcohols, acetic acid, etc. Both tube stoves and catalysts can readily oxidize these products completely.

From my understanding the cats in a BK are similar to the old 2-way cats used in gasoline vehicles prior to '81 or the diesel oxidizing catalysts used on diesel engines. These catalysts are efficient at converting most components of wood gas to CO2 and water vapour, I believe they could even completely combust terpenes if they were fed into the catalyst as a gas, much in the same way a DOC can clean up unburnt diesel from a diesel engine. The issue comes when these terpenes are partially burnt within the stove and produce carbon soot prior to reaching the cat, these catalysts are very inefficient at decomposing this soot to CO2 and the majority will pass through unchanged and exit the flue as black smoke. This was also in issue with diesel engines and resulted in the implementation of exhaust filters back in 2008. I believe this is what you see with your stove, at low output the terpenes are vaporized and sent into the catalyst for combustion, at higher output the heat of the firebox is greater and these terpenes partially combust within the firebox and the catalyst can't clean up the resulting compounds.


----------



## stoveliker

Given that graphite (as the too idealized and more inert model for soot) combusts at about 750-800 F and the cat should be able to do that, I think this is a matter of particle size rather than chemistry. Too big particles don't have enough surface to finish the combustion reaction in the short time they spend in the cat channels.


----------



## kennyp2339

sacountry said:


> I can dial right down to a flicker of a slow flame further yet to just keeping the coals hot,


The small candle like flames with secondary vapor blasts is my go to spot when it get cold, in the princess when I turn the T-stat down to that setting means a 12hr burn.


----------



## stoveliker

There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show. 

(Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again


----------



## ratsrepus

stoveliker said:


> There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show.
> 
> (Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again


dont over think this, it not suppose to be complicated. set it and forget it


----------



## stoveliker

I'm not overthinking, I'm observing all the different northern lights and plain old fire I can make in this box. And I know the box will keep it constant for a while (until the wood settles). 

And yes, I will try to rationalize what I see - that's the defect in my brain... But I enjoy that.


----------



## Nealm66

Man, I have got to start paying closer attention to the forecast. Way to warm last night and 68 for a high today. Whoops


----------



## ABMax24

stoveliker said:


> Given that graphite (as the too idealized and more inert model for soot) combusts at about 750-800 F and the cat should be able to do that, I think this is a matter of particle size rather than chemistry. Too big particles don't have enough surface to finish the combustion reaction in the short time they spend in the cat channels.



While I do agree that in theory the soot should be burnt within the catalyst, in practice it has been shown to not be the case. I don't know if it's due to reduced oxygen levels, the catalyst not being of the right type for carbon, or as you said particle size or residence time, or something else.

Diesel engine manufacturers would see significant cost advantages if they could replace expensive exhaust filters with a better catalyst, but as of yet nothing has really been found. To my knowledge a 40% reduction is soot is the best that has been achieved by a DOC on a diesel engine, still a difference but not near enough for modern emission standards.


----------



## sacountry

stoveliker said:


> There's a whole series of secondary flame behavior that I've tried to "set". I can spend hours overheating myself, sitting on a little stool in front of the stove, changing the Tstat in minute quantities and then waiting for 15 minutes to get the steady associated flame show.
> 
> (Weekend) days can be enjoyed/wasted (depending on who you ask...) doing this. And then the next weekend the weather, wood type and dryness etc is different, so you can do it all over again


You need to change your name to stovelover


----------



## Poindexter

BKVP said:


> What's current heating oil price up there?


Dunno.  Should find out in late November.  90 Octane Chevron jumped up to $4.059/ gallon as Ida was doing her thing and hasn't budged since.  My best guess is number one heating oil is about $3.50/ gallon local right now .


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> Dunno.  Should find out in late November.  90 Octane Chevron jumped up to $4.059/ gallon as Ida was doing her thing and hasn't budged since.  My best guess is number one heating oil is about $3.50/ gallon local right now .



Much cheaper than I thought it would be. Only a 5-10% higher than western Washington.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

First initial burn in. Only used a few small pieces to see how the performance is. Ran it for 10 min on high with the damper open and on high. Once it got into the active zone I shut the bypass and kept it on medium.

Regardless....cat probe shot all the way at the top. Shut the thermostat to low and it steadily crept past the top of the active zone.

Still running on low 15 min later and here's where it's sitting.

What's going on?


----------



## begreen

New cat plus strong draft may be the issue. A stuck, or misaligned thermostat could be the issue too.
Do you hear the thermostat's air valve click shut at any point when turning it down? What does the fire look like with the air all the way down?


----------



## Highbeam

1990dtgl98 said:


> First initial burn in. Only used a few small pieces to see how the performance is. Ran it for 10 min on high with the damper open and on high. Once it got into the active zone I shut the bypass and kept it on medium.
> 
> Regardless....cat probe shot all the way at the top. Shut the thermostat to low and it steadily crept past the top of the active zone.
> 
> Still running on low 15 min later and here's where it's sitting.
> 
> What's going on?
> 
> View attachment 283433



A fresh cat will be hyperactive for a while but what’s the problem? Stove top thermometers are not useful on a cat stove, the blazing hot catalyst is right there under that surface meter so you’re just indirectly measuring catalyst temperature.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

begreen said:


> New cat plus strong draft may be the issue. A stuck, or misaligned thermostat could be the issue too.
> Do you hear the thermostat's air valve click shut at any point when turning it down? What does the fire look like with the air all the way down?



Between the low and first dot I csn heat the thermostat door "slap" or shut.

On low this is my firebox...can't even really see embers.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Highbeam said:


> A fresh cat will be hyperactive for a while but what’s the problem? Stove top thermometers are not useful on a cat stove, the blazing hot catalyst is right there under that surface meter so you’re just indirectly measuring catalyst temperature.


That stove temp was a leftover, not really used.i was more talking about the cat probe being well above the active zone for the last hour being a concern.


----------



## begreen

Yes, I understand. I don't pay too much attention to stove top temps and don't have a lot of trust in the accuracy of the simple thermometers. IIRC, this insert has a 26' liner, is that correct? That is why I mentioned strong draft. A new catalyst can be hyperactive for the first few burns. If so, it should settle down in the next few burns.


----------



## stoveliker

The fact that on low you don't even see embers means your air can be closed off properly. You'll see when you have bigger fires whether the Tstat works - I have no reason to think it does not, given your observations. Everything seems normal so far.


----------



## Highbeam

1990dtgl98 said:


> That stove temp was a leftover, not really used.i was more talking about the cat probe being well above the active zone for the last hour being a concern.



The catalyst temperature varies based on how much smoke it’s eating. Not based on the thermostat setting. Most of the time I run on very low thermostat settings and that cat meter stays way up near the top of the scale. The only time you really need to consider the reading on that cat meter is when it crosses the active line. Then you can ignore it since the information is worthless.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Yes, chimney is either 24 or 26' liner (forget specifically) with 30* bend. I did have a decent 15mph wind. If it is drafting too strong that might be a problem as we do average a pretty good wind all winter being sandwiched in between 2 large ridges and with open fields around me.

That makes me feel a bit better. Heat output was good, not great. I think that's because I had it on low or the first dot the entire time due to the cat being pegged. 

That was on 4 smaller splits (maybe 20lbs of wood) got me from 11am and was still going when I went to bed at 10. Not sure when it actually died. Outside temp was 61, inside was 77.

It'll be interested to see if I can run it hotter constantly and how it performs when it gets into the teens.


----------



## kennyp2339

Order a damper for the double wall stove pipe, with that run you will need it. 
With your last burn it sounds like you were strictly running off the cat for any heat production, I do that to with my princess during the shoulder seasons, still a bit warm here for that though. 
I also installed a damper a few years back for my setup - 18ft but my house is on top of a hill taking all the wind off a larger swamp area with a normal winter wind direction from the NW, I tested my draft, the manual calls for a .05" wc while running on high, I was getting .18"wc which is 3 times as much, installed the damper and running around .07"wc and stove performance improved / along with heat output (stove heat was literally being sucked out the stove)


----------



## BKVP

There is nothing wrong!  


1990dtgl98 said:


> Yes, chimney is either 24 or 26' liner (forget specifically) with 30* bend. I did have a decent 15mph wind. If it is drafting too strong that might be a problem as we do average a pretty good wind all winter being sandwiched in between 2 large ridges and with open fields around me.
> 
> That makes me feel a bit better. Heat output was good, not great. I think that's because I had it on low or the first dot the entire time due to the cat being pegged.
> 
> That was on 4 smaller splits (maybe 20lbs of wood) got me from 11am and was still going when I went to bed at 10. Not sure when it actually died. Outside temp was 61, inside was 77.
> 
> It'll be interested to see if I can run it hotter constantly and how it performs when it gets into the teens.


Don't alter anything for now, please.  Cats often produce higher temps on lower burn rates due to residence time.

When we as an industry certify wood and pellet stoves,  we are required to "condition" the stove and it's elements of clean combustion.

This is required, regardless of technology.   For cats we know it takes nearly a month or more of continous buring before they settle-in to a sweet spot for performance.

Burn it just as you did and even hotter.  Stove temps and combustor temps are not the same.

BKVP


----------



## Ohio123

Hi everyone long time reader, 1st time poster. I am finally ready to purchase my first fireplace insert. My wife likes a modern flush look so nothing to far out into the hearth. My options are BK sirocco, PE Neo 2.5, and regency CI2700. I am leaning toward a BK Sirocco 25 due the the government tax credit it the cheaper of the options. My main concern now is having a quiet blower/fan another wife request. I went to couple dealers to listen to them in action. Regency was very whisper quiet on low. PE dealer didn’t have his plugged in but Begreen has said it was very quiet. Can anyone that has the BK sirocco or Ashford 25 insert tell me anything about the blower on low?


----------



## Nealm66

One thing I have found is that for the first day and maybe 2, my house absorbs the heat making it seem like the stove may not be putting out a lot of heat but man, once the bones of the house are warmed, the low setting is plenty! Some times more than enough. It can take a day and even longer for my house to loose the stored heat. Probably the coolest thing about the king stoves is there isn’t the roller coaster heat like we grow used to. It’s a steady output. It will  take a while for the cat to settle in. I bought mine last year and it was the display model they had been burning so it wasn’t too bad. I run mine on low all the time and only open it up for the refuel.


----------



## John Galt

I feel like a first time parent calling the doctor when the kid sneezes... 
I have a new install, if it was a typical 15' pipe I wouldn't think anything of what's happening.
I put the princess in the basement with a 32' straight shot Excel chimney run - 12" pipe off the stove, a damper, telescoping pipe to the ceiling, and then lots of chimney. The first few small fires were excellent, no smoke, thermostat working, able to control everything. When I fully loaded the box things changed. The cat thermometer pegged out, is that the new hyper active cat syndrome? Does that happen on older cats? I am also getting smoke out of the cap so it's not burning everything, is that normal?
Wood is very dry, thermostat is at 4 o'clockish, I've closed the damper partially and also all the way (Excel damper so it doesnt block off completely) I do not have a manometer yet to measure draft. Any thoughts or suggestions on the setup or results? I just don't want to break something or worry needlessly.
Thanks


----------



## stoveliker

John Galt said:


> I feel like a first time parent calling the doctor when the kid sneezes...
> I have a new install, if it was a typical 15' pipe I wouldn't think anything of what's happening.
> I put the princess in the basement with a 32' straight shot Excel chimney run - 12" pipe off the stove, a damper, telescoping pipe to the ceiling, and then lots of chimney. The first few small fires were excellent, no smoke, thermostat working, able to control everything. When I fully loaded the box things changed. The cat thermometer pegged out, is that the new hyper active cat syndrome? Does that happen on older cats? I am also getting smoke out of the cap so it's not burning everything, is that normal?
> Wood is very dry, thermostat is at 4 o'clockish, I've closed the damper partially and also all the way (Excel damper so it doesnt block off completely) I do not have a manometer yet to measure draft. Any thoughts or suggestions on the setup or results? I just don't want to break something or worry needlessly.
> Thanks


if this is smoke (rather than water vapor, now that more vapor comes out because more wood is burned, AND now that it may be colder, so you see it?), then this smells like (..) too much draft. Gases going too fast thru the cat won't have time to be fully combusted. Can you close the damper more? Or add a second damper.


----------



## BKVP

Ohio123 said:


> Hi everyone long time reader, 1st time poster. I am finally ready to purchase my first fireplace insert. My wife likes a modern flush look so nothing to far out into the hearth. My options are BK sirocco, PE Neo 2.5, and regency CI2700. I am leaning toward a BK Sirocco 25 due the the government tax credit it the cheaper of the options. My main concern now is having a quiet blower/fan another wife request. I went to couple dealers to listen to them in action. Regency was very whisper quiet on low. PE dealer didn’t have his plugged in but Begreen has said it was very quiet. Can anyone that has the BK sirocco or Ashford 25 insert tell me anything about the blower on low?


I can assure you the fans (2) are much quieter on the SC25/AF25 and BX24 as they are dual squirrel cage fans.  The blowers on the freestanding models and PI29 use axial fans.  The axial fans have prop like blades and tend to be louder, especially on high.


----------



## John Galt

stoveliker said:


> if this is smoke (rather than water vapor, now that more vapor comes out because more wood is burned, AND now that it may be colder, so you see it?), then this smells like (..) too much draft. Gases going too fast thru the cat won't have time to be fully combusted. Can you close the damper more? Or add a second damper.


Definitely smoke. Too much draft was my thought, but I haven't purchased a manometer yet. The current damper is closed all of the way but the Excel damper's internal plate has cut outs so it doesn't block 100% of the air. I can add another damper at the support box if it's needed.


----------



## stoveliker

Ok. It can be hard to distinguish smoke from water vapor, but smoke it is.

There are folks here with two dampers - though I'm not sure that was for a BK. But 32' straight up may need this. Be aware that if this is indeed the problem, it will get worse as winter weather gets colder.


----------



## ABMax24

John Galt said:


> Definitely smoke. Too much draft was my thought, but I haven't purchased a manometer yet. The current damper is closed all of the way but the Excel damper's internal plate has cut outs so it doesn't block 100% of the air. I can add another damper at the support box if it's needed.



I have the same damper and just modified mine, took a couple stainless bolts and fender washers and blocked the ICC in the damper. There are still times I wish it was a little more restrictive but this works fine 95% of the time. I've got 36 vertical feet in my flue setup on an easy breathing SBI box, and this worked wonders.


----------



## kennyp2339

Back in the saddle here, red oak, cherry and splash of maple


----------



## MissMac

sacountry said:


> Coming back to my original question.  Doesn't appear as though my wife can overburn/harm the BK King, but I do need to highlight to her the wasted gas/fuel that goes out the stack when burning on high....not to mentioned that she remain comfortably dressed all winter long in the 3:00-3:30 position on the tstat.
> 
> I have to admit I really like the control the stove has over the flame.  I can dial right down to a flicker of a slow flame further yet to just keeping the coals hot, "black in the box" as I'm learning you guys like to say.  I never imagined that kind of control in a stove.  With propane prices set to spike by 40% in my area, I'm really hoping our 8 cord wood supply is enough.  Might have to go harvest a couple more logs just to make sure.


Holy smokes, I think you'll be good with the 8 cords man!  I will be giving you 157 shocked emoji faces if you somehow put all 8 through your BK this winter.


----------



## dh1989

Temperature going down to the 40s tonight here. I just cleaned up the stove and swept with the Sooteater. Last season's creosote is ready to be burned up, along with a piece of charred log that was left behind. Note the new metal gate around the stove which I recently set up to keep our 1 year old away. It will probably be a smelly start as I just lubricated the squeaky door hinge with some copper lubricant.


----------



## kennyp2339

First burn is in, I need to let the stove cool off and make some adjustments, My door gasket seems ok but I think I'm going to change it out, along with the window gasket (never changed in the previous 6 seasons) 
I need to adjust and grease the cam shaft for the bi-pass, it was a little crunchy this morning when I disengaged the cat. Other then that, all systems go, the stove worked great for its first burn of 2021 -2022 season.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

kennyp2339 said:


> Midwesthearth.com


Finally getting around to putting in an order and notice there is a space for a discount code.  I'd love to save a few dollars ($275 price tag for the combuster).  Did a quick search online and didn't find anything that would work.  Any ideas or help?


----------



## BKVP

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Finally getting around to putting in an order and notice there is a space for a discount code.  I'd love to save a few dollars ($275 price tag for the combuster).  Did a quick search online and didn't find anything that would work.  Any ideas or help?


I believe that is for retailers that purchase volume based orders...but heck if I know.


----------



## Highbeam

Bill in the U.P. said:


> Finally getting around to putting in an order and notice there is a space for a discount code.  I'd love to save a few dollars ($275 price tag for the combuster).  Did a quick search online and didn't find anything that would work.  Any ideas or help?


Maybe even contact Midwest and ask what is needed to get a code. Sometimes it's easier for them to just give you one.


----------



## bikedennis

My new Sirocco has been in use for a week and I have been burning very dry pine and have not observed smoke out of the chimney.  Now, burning dry fir (18% MC) the stove is emitting a steady stream of smoke from the chimney with the thermostat  at 2 o'clock.  Not a lot o f smoke but being a worrier,  I'm wondering if this is normal or did I have the false notion that BK's produced very little to no smoke.


----------



## stoveliker

bikedennis said:


> My new Sirocco has been in use for a week and I have been burning very dry pine and have not observed smoke out of the chimney.  Now, burning dry fir (18% MC) the stove is emitting a steady stream of smoke from the chimney with the thermostat  at 2 o'clock.  Not a lot o f smoke but being a worrier,  I'm wondering if this is normal or did I have the false notion that BK's produced very little to no smoke.


Is it colder now?
18% should be good. If your cat is active (and your flue stack is not too tall), that all appears to work. If it is colder now, could it be steam?


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> My new Sirocco has been in use for a week and I have been burning very dry pine and have not observed smoke out of the chimney.  Now, burning dry fir (18% MC) the stove is emitting a steady stream of smoke from the chimney with the thermostat  at 2 o'clock.  Not a lot o f smoke but being a worrier,  I'm wondering if this is normal or did I have the false notion that BK's produced very little to no smoke.



I too burn fir, 100% doug fir right now. It makes light blue smoke more often than other woods. Some folks blame the bark, some blame the higher pitch content, who knows. If the cat meter is well up into the active zone and the stove is at equilibrium (thermostat has been untouched hours) then it is what it is and there's nothing you can do. 

Oh and it's almost never steam with an active cat. That very remote possibility is evident by the detached plume where there is a clear gap between the chimney cap and the appearance of a white plume.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> Oh and it's almost never steam with an active cat. That very remote possibility is evident by the detached plume where there is a clear gap between the chimney cap and the appearance of a white plume.



... which was the almost standard mode I saw for my stove burning last winter. A break (though small - cooler chimney here, I guess), and then dissolving rather than diluting. 

I think it happens more often than people think. 

 I haven't burned fir. It was mostly maple, cherry, sassafras last winter.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> ... which was the almost standard mode I saw for my stove burning last winter. A break (though small - cooler chimney here, I guess), and then dissolving rather than diluting.
> 
> I think it happens more often than people think.
> 
> I haven't burned fir. It was mostly maple, cherry, sassafras last winter.



Remember though, you have a 27' exterior masonry stack that makes you fall into an outlier camp. Your flue temperatures have a much higher chance than most of cooling to the dewpoint. Yes, there is dissolved water in all of our exhaust streams so yes it is possible to get steam. 

Perhaps "almost never" was too strong but it is also pretty obvious when it's just pure steam.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> Remember though, you have a 27' exterior masonry stack that makes you fall into an outlier camp. Your flue temperatures have a much higher chance than most of cooling to the dewpoint. Yes, there is dissolved water in all of our exhaust streams so yes it is possible to get steam.
> 
> Perhaps "almost never" was too strong but it is also pretty obvious when it's just pure steam.



I agree- hence the cooler remark.
You're on the other side of the spectrum. Maybe the frequency is someplace in the middle between almost never and often.

We don't know the OPs stack height. At least it's clear that steam is a possibility.


----------



## bikedennis

My stack height is about 20 feet from top of stove to the cap.


----------



## BKVP

Immediately after lighting or refueling, there can be some smoke for a very short period of time.  However, if you are locking down the bypass (cam over) you should not see smoke 95%+% of the time....


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> My stack height is about 20 feet from top of stove to the cap.


What color is the smoke? Is it thick or is it almost see through like a haze? One person's smoke is another person's no smoke. I estimate that more than 50% of the time I have something visible leaving the stack. Steam, smoke, blue, white, grey, or a combination. That's with an always fresh cat, doug fir with bark in the low teens MC, and flue temps over 400.

The smoke emissions are not bad enough to be illegal in my regulated area because the opacity must be pretty bad before it's illegal but there is no missing that I am burning. We also have burn bans occasionally and stealth burning is always a good thing. I've given up on stealth burning for the most part.

The stove performs like new though and is a real pleasure to operate. My bypass gasket passes the dollar bill test, door seals tight, very controllable burn and warm home.


----------



## Diabel

My bk will always smoke immediately after closing the bypass (cat probe just in active zone) for about 20min.

During the burn cycle, sometimes it will smoke other times it will not. Some days it will go through the whole burn without any visible smoke/steam. Sometimes it will start smoking 8h into the burn then stop after 30min or so.  I stopped paying attention.


----------



## Diabel

Diabel said:


> My bk will always smoke immediately after closing the bypass (cat probe just in active zone) for about 20min.
> 
> During the burn cycle, sometimes it will smoke other times it will not. Some days it will go through the whole burn without any visible smoke/steam. Sometimes it will start smoking 8h into the burn then stop after 30min or so.  I stopped paying attention.


Btw my VC sometimes will do the same.


----------



## Nealm66

I don’t notice blue smoke when I’m burning Doug fir except right after reloading on a late refuel. I do notice steam when it’s cold for a bit after reloading when it’s an early refuel. No bark on mine though to speak of


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> And yes, I will try to rationalize what I see - that's the defect in my brain... But I enjoy that.


Your an addict to the BK lol, now go count the holes in your flame shield


----------



## stoveliker

kennyp2339 said:


> Your an addict to the BK lol, now go count the holes in your flame shield



Lol. When I first light it. I'll report back 
Unfortunately that may be near the start of December...


----------



## kennyp2339

So one of the things I noticed after lighting my stove and letting it warm up the other day with the pipe damper open was a whistling sound at the flue collar, would a leaky connection there be the reason why I have strong draft? It goes away when I close the damper. My rational thinking is the warm air from the stove and the cooler air outside is creating a greater imbalance and giving me more draft, plus low pressure to high pressure - basement to roof line. Maybe some experimental gasket work needs to happen.


----------



## stoveliker

I'd think any air entering the flue at the collar or above decreases the pull on your stove...?

I mean the pull of your chimney is partially satisfied by air leaking in rather than by air being pulled through your stove...


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> I'd think any air entering the flue at the collar or above decreases the pull on your stove...?
> 
> I mean the pull of your chimney is partially satisfied by air leaking in rather than by air being pulled through your stove...


Yea, I was just thinking that to, like how a baro damper acts


----------



## Poindexter

The course work for EPA level 9 Visual Emmissions Evaluation (VEE) is typically available online for free.  If you want to take the test to become and EPA certified VEE level 9 (daylight) inspector you got to pay the money, pass the written and go take the practical test. 

I am not going to link you to one or another provider so 'we' can spread our web traffic out over as many servers as possible.  If you take the test there will be many many samples in the 20-40% opacity range, but few in the under 20% opacity or greater than 40% opacity coming out of the calibrated certified chimney.

If you own a BK and are buring fuel at or under 20% MC, make sure you are dialed in on the <20% opacity, because that is what you should see coming out of your stack.  You might spend a little time on the +/- 50% range for startup if you happen to live in an EPA designated non-attainment area.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> Oh and it's almost never steam with an active cat.


I don't fully agree with this.  There is plenty of hydrogen attached to the hydrocarbon of cellulose.  When burnt, some "H2O" is produced during complete combustion, at +/- 600 degrees F.  Whether that steam condenses inside the stack, or over the roof, or two blocks away is going to depend on a number of factors, outdoor ambient temperature being primary.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> is evident by the detached plume where there is a clear gap between the chimney cap and the appearance of a white plume.


Brilliant.  If you have done the EPA VEE level 9 coursework, you know the gap between the chimney top and the beginning of the steam plume is the IDEAL place to evaluate the opacity of the smoke plume.  

If you have zero opacity between the chimney top and the beginning of the steam in your detached plume, the smoke opacity is zero.

Well said good sir.  Thank you.


----------



## Poindexter

Diabel said:


> My bk will always smoke immediately after closing the bypass (cat probe just in active zone) for about 20min.
> 
> During the burn cycle, sometimes it will smoke other times it will not. Some days it will go through the whole burn without any visible smoke/steam. Sometimes it will start smoking 8h into the burn then stop after 30min or so.  I stopped paying attention.


On mine there is a white tick mark on the dial between the active/inactive break  and the red needle as pictured.  I am sure there is a bit of variability with individual installs.  What I see on mine with a healthy (<25 cords) combustor is my plume opacity is well under 20% when the red needle is above the white tick mark into the active zone.

I don't have the instrumentation to determine, and have not been able to find out with internet research, is it better to stay in bypass to get to the tick mark, or engage at the break and get to the tick mark with the combustor active?  Time seems to be about the same either way.  My data is confounded from further resolution by having to step into my winter boots with no socks and run out into the snow from one or the other exterior door based on the current position of the moon relative to the chimney and the door I choose.

I am reminded I need to go testify to my borough assembly, again, to advocate for allowing regulated burners like me 30 rather than a mere 20 minutes, to get through start up opacity grace.  Local I am regulated to 20 minutes at 50% plume opacity on cold starts.  With fuel at 14% MC I can do it 20 minutes, but my flue gas temps often reach 1200 degrees F.  With fuel at 20% MC and limiting my flue gas temps  to 1000 degrees F, I need 30 minutes.  I am willing to bet folding money I have instrumented more cold starts in my stove than every delegate on the borough assembly combined.

M2c anyway.  Gotta tick mark on your dial?  Winter boots by the door you can slip on quickly?


----------



## stoveliker

Poindexter said:


> I don't fully agree with this.  There is plenty of hydrogen attached to the hydrocarbon of cellulose.  When burnt, some "H2O" is produced during complete combustion, at +/- 600 degrees F.  Whether that steam condenses inside the stack, or over the roof, or two blocks away is going to depend on a number of factors, outdoor ambient temperature being primary.


In fact, I once did the calculation (back of the envelope; assuming all hydrogen gets to be water, assuming the wood is purely cellulose (if I remember correctly) etc). Posted it here.




__





						Steam coming from chimney
					

Hey everyone, I have what is obviously steam coming from my chimney on cold low humidity days. I haven’t measured moisture content of my splits recently but I do know they are about a year from perfect (MC had been 19-22%) Is this a sign of wet wood when running a cat stove? Or can this be...




					www.hearth.com
				




Bottomline, a boatload of water is going up all our flues regardless of how dry your wood is. The question is whether you'll see it coming out of the stack. Flue gas temps and outside dewpoint will determine that.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> In fact, I once did the calculation (back of the envelope; assuming all hydrogen gets to be water, assuming the wood is purely cellulose (if I remember correctly) etc). Posted it here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steam coming from chimney
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, I have what is obviously steam coming from my chimney on cold low humidity days. I haven’t measured moisture content of my splits recently but I do know they are about a year from perfect (MC had been 19-22%) Is this a sign of wet wood when running a cat stove? Or can this be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hearth.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottomline, a boatload of water is going up all our flues regardless of how dry your wood is. The question is whether you'll see it coming out of the stack. Flue gas temps and outside dewpoint will determine that.



And like car exhaust, gas or diesel, in some climates you see it very frequently and some never. The water is still there.

And remember, I was responding to somebody in California where you don’t see as much steamy car exhaust as you do in NY or AK.


----------



## John Galt

ABMax24 said:


> I have the same damper and just modified mine, took a couple stainless bolts and fender washers and blocked the ICC in the damper. There are still times I wish it was a little more restrictive but this works fine 95% of the time. I've got 36 vertical feet in my flue setup on an easy breathing SBI box, and this worked wonders.
> 
> View attachment 283540
> View attachment 283541


Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?


----------



## stoveliker

John Galt said:


> Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?


zinc would evaporate. While the (toxic) vapors will go up the flue, the point is that the zinc would soon "not be there anymore"...


----------



## ABMax24

John Galt said:


> Is there a reason that stainless steel was used? Anyone know if zinc would corrode inside the flue?



Stainless is significantly more corrosion resistant at high temperatures like those seen in a flue.

I'm sure steel would work fine, for a while, but I bought those at Home Depot and they had both on hand, it was only a few cents more for stainless.


----------



## John Galt

Thanks. Our stores don't have anything small in stock, shipping is two weeks out, and I have plenty of zinc. I'll wait and put the stainless in and do it once. I wasn't thinking about how corrosive the exhaust is. Of course the bolts and nuts can be sent directly to me but I have to drive an hour to get the fender washers.


----------



## Diabel

Poindexter said:


> On mine there is a white tick mark on the dial between the active/inactive break  and the red needle as pictured.  I am sure there is a bit of variability with individual installs.  What I see on mine with a healthy (<25 cords) combustor is my plume opacity is well under 20% when the red needle is above the white tick mark into the active zone.
> 
> I don't have the instrumentation to determine, and have not been able to find out with internet research, is it better to stay in bypass to get to the tick mark, or engage at the break and get to the tick mark with the combustor active?  Time seems to be about the same either way.  My data is confounded from further resolution by having to step into my winter boots with no socks and run out into the snow from one or the other exterior door based on the current position of the moon relative to the chimney and the door I choose.
> 
> I am reminded I need to go testify to my borough assembly, again, to advocate for allowing regulated burners like me 30 rather than a mere 20 minutes, to get through start up opacity grace.  Local I am regulated to 20 minutes at 50% plume opacity on cold starts.  With fuel at 14% MC I can do it 20 minutes, but my flue gas temps often reach 1200 degrees F.  With fuel at 20% MC and limiting my flue gas temps  to 1000 degrees F, I need 30 minutes.  I am willing to bet folding money I have instrumented more cold starts in my stove than every delegate on the borough assembly combined.
> 
> M2c anyway.  Gotta tick mark on your dial?  Winter boots by the door you can slip on quickly?
> 
> View attachment 283747


Excellent write up. Nice point on the dial . Will explore for sure


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

Thanks for the suggestion to order a spare combustor from Midwesthearth.com.  My manual lists the combustor supplied with the stove as a 115-0556 or a 115-0336-A-M.  My stove is a KE40.  I can't find a combustor on the Midwesthearth site that specifically lists a KE40 or the combuster numbers from the manual.

From the Midwesthearth site:
Catalytic Combustor Blaze King Classic, Parlor, Ultra (5" x 10.6" x 2")​*Compatible Stove Models:*
• King Classic KE1107BK
• King Parlor KE1107LBK
• King Ultra KE1107UBK, KEJ1100, KEJ1101, KEJ1102, KEI1300





Would this be the correct combustor for a KE40?


----------



## kennyp2339

Catalytic Combustor Blaze King Classic, Parlor, Ultra (5
					

Midwest Hearth MH-64C and MH-64M replacement combustors are a high-quality choice for your catalytic wood burning stove.Replacing your old combustor will help you improve your stove's efficiency, saving you money and producing less pollution. split Catalytic Combustor FAQ Catalytic Combustor...




					midwesthearth.com
				



@Bill in the U.P. this is the one, your existing cat should last you at least another 2 seasons if you BK was brand new last year


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

kennyp2339 said:


> Catalytic Combustor Blaze King Classic, Parlor, Ultra (5
> 
> 
> Midwest Hearth MH-64C and MH-64M replacement combustors are a high-quality choice for your catalytic wood burning stove.Replacing your old combustor will help you improve your stove's efficiency, saving you money and producing less pollution. split Catalytic Combustor FAQ Catalytic Combustor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midwesthearth.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Bill in the U.P. this is the one, your existing cat should last you at least another 2 seasons if you BK was brand new last year


Awesome, thank you.  It will be good to know I have one when the times comes.


----------



## Diabel

I always thought that I was well within parameters regarding the pipe length for my Princess. This morning it dawned on my (maybe not so much)!
Sat morning calculation brainer for the forum math nurds:

From the cap:
4 x 36” sections down to a 30 elbow to another 36” section to offseting 30 elbow. This connects to tee then right to a thimble (i would say 2.5’ horizontal. In the house from thimble right to two  45s down 4’ to stovetop. 

What is my actual pipe length accounting for the elbows?


----------



## stoveliker

Diabel said:


> I always thought that I was well within parameters regarding the pipe length for my Princess. This morning it dawned on my (maybe not so much)!
> Sat morning calculation brainer for the forum math nurds:
> 
> From the cap:
> 4 x 36” sections down to a 30 elbow to another 36” section to offseting 30 elbow. This connects to tee then right to a thimble (i would say 2.5’ horizontal. In the house from thimble right to two  45s down 4’ to stovetop.
> 
> What is my actual pipe length accounting for the elbows?



Lol. 
1. If the stove performs well, your chimney is good   (i.e. don't fix something that produces as it is meant to produce).

2. So you have 19' in straight sections, 2.5' horizontal, and 2 30 deg and 2 45 deg elbows.
The 2.5' horizontal add 5' to the required 15', making 20'. 
The 2 45s add 2' to the required length, making 22'.
The 2 30s add 1' to the required length, making 23'.

So, if you are at sea level, I think the recommended length is 23'. (I also note that the manual notes "no more than 1 offset allowed (2 elbows allowed)", but leaving that aside (because 30 deg elbows are not all that impactful), the manual suggests you are 4' short. 

But again, if it works well, your draft may be enough - for whatever particular reason your location has. It is not the length per se, but the draft (that is facilitated by this length) that matters. Length is easier to measure, though, and that's why that is mentioned in the manual, I believe.


----------



## Bill in the U.P.

New cat ordered today.  Like a full woodyard it will be comforting to have it before its needed.  : )


----------



## BKVP

Cat glow!


----------



## charger4406

I know you have mentioned this before, but how old is that cat


BKVP said:


> Cat glow!
> 
> View attachment 283963


----------



## Diabel

Pictures are deceiving but my cat has never been bright orange. Dull orange yes.


----------



## stoveliker

Mine was last (its first) year.


----------



## BKVP

charger4406 said:


> I know you have mentioned this before, but how old is that cat


2rd Season on my KE40!  You my recall my 1102 cat was 10 years old when I replaced it.  I donated that stove and got an 1107.  Ran that 10 years.  Put a V.3 cat in that at 5 years.  Remember Ashful?, he was running a V.3 in one of his 2 Ashfords and providing us Intel.  Donated my 1107 to a local family and put a KE40 in late 2019....only Webby3660 changes stoves more frequently.


----------



## charger4406

I just got a 2019 KEJ1107 off of a guy who's family had it at their cottage,
almost unused, could not get it to run very well it seems, as it was hooked
to 12 feet of horizontal run of almost level stove pipe, got it for 1300.


----------



## charger4406

the cat was only engaged once it seems 
and was run with the bypass open the rest of the time,
they never got the stove to run very warm,
the stove pipe was 50% clogged with creo.


----------



## BKVP

charger4406 said:


> I just got a 2019 KEJ1107 off of a guy who's family had it at their cottage,
> almost unused, could not get it to run very well it seems, as it was hooked
> to 12 feet of horizontal run of almost level stove pipe, got it for 1300.
> 
> View attachment 283979
> View attachment 283980


Score!


----------



## ohlongarm

BKVP said:


> Score!


Chris why bother with used when you can just back up to your loading dock and get a new one? 12 feet horizontal would any stove work with that setup? great deal otherwise.


----------



## kennyp2339

ohlongarm said:


> Chris why bother with used when you can just back up to your loading dock and get a new one? 12 feet horizontal would any stove work with that setup? great deal otherwise.


I have spoken to Chris personally on the telephone, after going back and fourth for a like an hour, my impression of him is a man that believes in the products that he sells, why fix something that is not broken.


----------



## showrguy

BKVP said:


> 2rd Season on my KE40!  You my recall my 1102 cat was 10 years old when I replaced it.  I donated that stove and got an 1107.  Ran that 10 years.  Put a V.3 cat in that at 5 years.  Remember Ashful?, he was running a V.3 in one of his 2 Ashfords and providing us Intel.  Donated my 1107 to a local family and put a KE40 in late 2019....only Webby3660 changes stoves more frequently.


Chris, you ever hear from Ashful ??
i asked about him a couple of times last season, but no one had heard from/about him.. 
Hope he’s ok..


----------



## BKVP

showrguy said:


> Chris, you ever hear from Ashful ??
> i asked about him a couple of times last season, but no one had heard from/about him..
> Hope he’s ok..


I hate to say I was never able to get an answer at his home.  I did have all his info and once I dropped by his home to say hello and he wasn't home.  I too hoped he was ok, but to this day, never got a VM or an answer.  I'll try once more right now....


----------



## BKVP

HIs number has been assigned to a new party.  No further details.  Hopefully he'll pop up someday!


----------



## showrguy

BKVP said:


> HIs number has been assigned to a new party.  No further details.  Hopefully he'll pop up someday!


That’s not what I was hoping to hear..


----------



## ratsrepus

charger4406 said:


> I just got a 2019 KEJ1107 off of a guy who's family had it at their cottage,
> almost unused, could not get it to run very well it seems, as it was hooked
> to 12 feet of horizontal run of almost level stove pipe, got it for 1300.
> 
> View attachment 283979
> View attachment 283980


looks like a bholler set up. now don't get pissed off, just joking


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> Unfortunately that may be near the start of December...


Wouldn't count on it, there's a Nor'Easter heading your way.


----------



## Tron

Poindexter said:


> Whether that steam condenses inside the stack, or over the roof, or two blocks away is going to depend on a number of factors, outdoor ambient temperature being primary.


And ambient humidity being the second.


----------



## stoveliker

Tron said:


> Wouldn't count on it, there's a Nor'Easter heading your way.



It's here already. Heavy rain (@begreen, my class A oil furnace pipe is not leaking anymore after sealing the vertical seam , thank you!), some wind.

And 63 F. Nor'Easters are not always cold... 
(Moreover, my saved solar electrons will carry the load with a minisplit for the foreseeable future. Likely first bit of heating tomorrow morning. I only light the stove when it's 40 F or below or so. Or when it itches too much and I need to tend to my fire addiction...)


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> And 63 F. Nor'Easters are not always cold...
> (Moreover, my saved solar electrons will carry the load with a minisplit for the foreseeable future. Likely first bit of heating tomorrow morning. I only light the stove when it's 40 F or below or so. Or when it itches too much and I need to tend to my fire addiction...)


I'm not familiar with your neck of the woods, but somehow I imagined them being mostly snowstorms.

I fire up the stove as soon as the house cools off enough for the heat to kick in in the morning. That could be at 50ish overnight. Even if it goes up to 75 in the afternoon. Just half a load burning from 6-12 totally does the trick. Otherwise the heat would have to run at least an hour during that time.


----------



## circle_burner

I Let the stove burn out today while I was at work and cleaned out the ashes. Then I was going to vacuum the fly ash off the cat when I noticed some of the center cells have some minor deformation.

What do you guys think? 







and a close up on the worst spot. 






I've been running it low and the cat needle is often passed max when cooking reloads but settles into 3/4 range after a hour or so.

Im thinking it's from manufacturer but Ive never looked at the cat before operating the stove so I have nothing to compare it to. 

I got the stove brand new in September I hope I didn't over fire the cat


----------



## circle_burner

For curiosity's sake. 
Does a anybody know what type of mortar or sealant is used to glue the 2 pieces of cat together?


----------



## kennyp2339

circle_burner said:


> What do you guys think?


Minor scaling - normal function


----------



## Poindexter

circle_burner said:


> What do you guys think?


I would run that cat some more.


----------



## stoveliker

circle_burner said:


> I Let the stove burn out today while I was at work and cleaned out the ashes. Then I was going to vacuum the fly ash off the cat when I noticed some of the center cells have some minor deformation.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a close up on the worst spot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been running it low and the cat needle is often passed max when cooking reloads but settles into 3/4 range after a hour or so.
> 
> Im thinking it's from manufacturer but Ive never looked at the cat before operating the stove so I have nothing to compare it to.
> 
> I got the stove brand new in September I hope I didn't over fire the cat



Couldn't this be deformation because of whatever is covering the top middle? That inhibits flow, and thus it's cooler in that area. That creates strain. And possibly deformation (though is this a ceramic substrate cat? I'm surprised they deform rather than crack...)

Regardless, the rest will work fine if the active surface coating is still present.

If this is creosote coating the top part, then something is not going exactly as it should - I'd engage the cat a bit later (hotter).


----------



## showrguy

stoveliker said:


> Couldn't this be deformation because of whatever is covering the top middle? That inhibits flow, and thus it's cooler in that area. That creates strain. And possibly deformation (though is this a ceramic substrate cat? I'm surprised they deform rather than crack...)
> 
> Regardless, the rest will work fine if the active surface coating is still present.
> 
> If this is creosote coating the top part, then something is not going exactly as it should - I'd engage the cat a bit later (hotter).


Looks like a piece of gasket to me..


----------



## circle_burner

The stove is still a new toy I want to fiddle with things but it's pretty much set it and forget it.

I dont think the cat is damaged or needs replacing just curious about the bending of the cells right at the joint of both catalysts. 

Oh ya I'm still running it.


----------



## kennyp2339

@circle_burner did you do your own install?


----------



## BKVP

circle_burner said:


> For curiosity's sake.
> Does a anybody know what type of mortar or sealant is used to glue the 2 pieces of cat together?


No mortar, just gaskets and banded..


----------



## BKVP

circle_burner said:


> The stove is still a new toy I want to fiddle with things but it's pretty much set it and forget it.
> 
> I dont think the cat is damaged or needs replacing just curious about the bending of the cells right at the joint of both catalysts.
> 
> Oh ya I'm still running it.
> 
> View attachment 284116


I see you crossed stack your fuel load.  Is this a practice you use often?  Do others cross stack?  Chime in please....


----------



## stoveliker

No (t yet?).

Though that will happen this year as I have some wood that's slightly too long for N/S loading due to the previous, larger  (in width, not cubic feet) stove.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> I see you crossed stack your fuel load.  Is this a practice you use often?  Do others cross stack?  Chime in please....


Only for the partial loads during shoulder seasons. Need a tall fuel load without too much fuel.


----------



## Nealm66

circle_burner said:


> The stove is still a new toy I want to fiddle with things but it's pretty much set it and forget it.
> 
> I dont think the cat is damaged or needs replacing just curious about the bending of the cells right at the joint of both catalysts.
> 
> Oh ya I'm still running it.
> 
> View attachment 284116


Is that pine?


----------



## circle_burner

kennyp2339 said:


> @circle_burner did you do your own install?



My install was done by the local dealer.
The installer kept stressing on how important it was that the stove was never to be operated outside the cat gauge and that has me a little paranoid.



stoveliker said:


> No (t yet?).
> 
> Though that will happen this year as I have some wood that's slightly too long for N/S loading due to the previous, larger  (in width, not cubic feet) stove.



I like cutting to 18" so I also have slightly too long wood to do north south in the belly. 
Making the belly fit a 18" split would be a great change for a KE40.1

When my set up is on simmer mode the burn happens from center front to back. At the later stages my stove seems to consume wood like a candle burning from one end to the other. As long as the log was part of the initial center simmer burn it will disappear to fine white ash.

On 5 hour load hot burns I think the wood lasts longer set east west. Also I think pure volume of wood is more important than how it's oriented so next year I'm cutting to 20" and packing it full.


----------



## circle_burner

Nealm66 said:


> Is that pine?



Yes sir. All soft wood mostly lodgepole possibly some fir with a little larch kindling on this load. I have a mixed pile.


----------



## BKVP

circle_burner said:


> My install was done by the local dealer.
> The installer kept stressing on how important it was that the stove was never to be operated outside the cat gauge and that has me a little paranoid.
> 
> 
> 
> I like cutting to 18" so I also have slightly too long wood to do north south in the belly.
> Making the belly fit a 18" split would be a great change for a KE40.1
> 
> When my set up is on simmer mode the burn happens from center front to back. At the later stages my stove seems to consume wood like a candle burning from one end to the other. As long as the log was part of the initial center simmer burn it will disappear to fine white ash.
> 
> On 5 hour load hot burns I think the wood lasts longer set east west. Also I think pure volume of wood is more important than how it's oriented so next year I'm cutting to 20" and packing it full.


You might try that loading theory before you cut them all 20".  I found I got less wood fuel weight into the stove because once 1/2 full, I was unable to maneuver the pieces into place.  That's a tetris game for top loaders!


----------



## Poindexter

BKVP said:


> I see you crossed stack your fuel load.  Is this a practice you use often?  Do others cross stack?  Chime in please....


If I have a big enough pile of coals, esp in the morning when I am in a hurry to get out the door, I have loaded 1 layer E-W behind the hot coals, and then loaded everything else N-S as the second and third layers.  

If I have a bunch of coals at the afternoon reload I am more likely to let them burn down so I can load everything N-S.  Hard to play tetris unless I am looking at N-S endgrain.


----------



## charger4406

Not yet, I may give it a try when I get bored.


BKVP said:


> I see you crossed stack your fuel load. Is this a practice you use often? Do others cross stack? Chime in please....


----------



## kennyp2339

circle_burner said:


> My install was done by the local dealer.
> The installer kept stressing on how important it was that the stove was never to be operated outside the cat gauge and that has me a little paranoid.


Oh ok, I was just wondering about the install because the dvl adapter on the flue collar is sitting about 1/2" above the stove top, was wondering how that was done, mine just lays on top of the stove. 
About the operation outside the cat gauge, the dealer is correct but only on the inactive side, meaning don't close the by-pass damper before the cat is active.


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> I see you crossed stack your fuel load.  Is this a practice you use often?  Do others cross stack?  Chime in please....


When I first light the stove I have smaller pieces kind of all over, once I get a situated fire its either all NS or EW loading, I like packing the splits tight and getting the box filled to the max.


----------



## Todd

Poindexter said:


> If I have a big enough pile of coals, esp in the morning when I am in a hurry to get out the door, I have loaded 1 layer E-W behind the hot coals, and then loaded everything else N-S as the second and third layers.
> 
> If I have a bunch of coals at the afternoon reload I am more likely to let them burn down so I can load everything N-S.  Hard to play tetris unless I am looking at N-S endgrain.


This is what I used to do with my Princess. When you have a pile of coals raked forward you can even out the load if you stack a few splits E/W in the back then  pack it full N/S on top of that. I think it may give you a little longer burn with those E/W splits tucked back in there.


----------



## Nealm66

I’ve only burned ew with kindling and everything else ns. Might have to try highbeams method for this time of year


----------



## kennyp2339

So... lets play a game of how dumb you can be... I'll go first - I've been complaining of a whistle noise coming from my flue collar adapter for a while, I took a look at the @circle_burner 's pic yesterday and the dim light bulb went off in my head, yea... I never screwed mine to the flue collar, it just laid on top with the air vents blocked for the air cooled side of the dvl. Amazing how one picture can bring perspective to things, I popped my dvl up, pulled the collar adapter, confirmed that the inner section did in fact went lower then the outer, got out the drill and level, mounted the dvl w/ three screws just a hair below the outer wall in relation to the flue collar screws. much tighter fit, seems the inner section pulled / flared more to the collar and now there is a channel for cooler air to enter from the under side of the dvl pipe. I think I feel much happier about this.


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> So... lets play a game of how dumb you can be... I'll go first - I've been complaining of a whistle noise coming from my flue collar adapter for a while, I took a look at the @circle_burner 's pic yesterday and the dim light bulb went off in my head, yea... I never screwed mine to the flue collar, it just laid on top with the air vents blocked for the air cooled side of the dvl. Amazing how one picture can bring perspective to things, I popped my dvl up, pulled the collar adapter, confirmed that the inner section did in fact went lower then the outer, got out the drill and level, mounted the dvl w/ three screws just a hair below the outer wall in relation to the flue collar screws. much tighter fit, seems the inner section pulled / flared more to the collar and now there is a channel for cooler air to enter from the under side of the dvl pipe. I think I feel much happier about this.


I think, I know, according to my wife I win!


----------



## Nealm66

Lol, that makes 3 of us


----------



## Nealm66

Not doing too bad here, perfect princess weather. Low simmer, 24 cycle. Had a windstorm that knocked a couple trees down and lost power. Neighbors fir snag came over my fence but cleaned up pretty easy.


----------



## Ashful

BKVP said:


> I hate to say I was never able to get an answer at his home.  I did have all his info and once I dropped by his home to say hello and he wasn't home.  I too hoped he was ok, but to this day, never got a VM or an answer.  I'll try once more right now....


I'm a figment of your imagination.  

Just kidding... thanks for the call!

Sorry guys, been a bit busy recently.  Was also getting my knuckles slapped by one of the newer mod's too frequently, accused of being a BK fanboy anytime I answered a question from a new user asking about BK stoves.  It just wasn't fun anymore.

Hope you're all ready for winter.  I'm still running the two Ashford 30's, one on a 2018 steelcat, the the other on BKVP's then-secret "B3" ceramic cat (since April 2017!).  I'll be running nothing but the new ceramic cats, once I manage to toast the steelcat, their wider passages seem to do a better job with the fine ash kicked up by the stronger air wash in the "30" series stoves.  They light off fast, hold it long, and show no signs of cracking or deterioration of any kind after 3+ seasons at 6+ cords per season in that one stove.  I'm guessing they're not cheap, given the more expensive coating applied to them, but I'm sold on them.


----------



## Diabel

Ashful said:


> I'm a figment of your imagination.
> 
> Just kidding... thanks for the call!
> 
> Sorry guys, been a bit busy recently.  Was also getting my knuckles slapped by one of the newer mod's too frequently, accused of being a BK fanboy anytime I answered a question from a new user asking about BK stoves.  It just wasn't fun anymore.
> 
> Hope you're all ready for winter.  I'm still running the two Ashford 30's, one on a 2015 factory steelcat, the the other on BKVP's then-secret "B3" ceramic cat (since April 2017!).  I'll be running nothing but the new ceramic cats, once I manage to toast the steelcat, their wider passages seem to do a better job with the fine ash kicked up by the stronger air wash in the "30" series stoves.  They light off fast, hold it long, and show no signs of cracking or deterioration of any kind after 3+ seasons at 6+ cords per season in that one stove.  I'm guessing they're not cheap, given the more expensive coating applied to them, but I'm sold on them.


Nice to see familiar avatar!


----------



## begreen

Ashful said:


> I'm a figment of your imagination.
> 
> Just kidding... thanks for the call!
> 
> Sorry guys, been a bit busy recently.  Was also getting my knuckles slapped by one of the newer mod's too frequently, accused of being a BK fanboy anytime I answered a question from a new user asking about BK stoves.  It just wasn't fun anymore.


Lest fingers are pointed, this was noted by several mods. The bounds were stretched or overreached several times. It's not fun for a new person seeking information to get bombed with comments like my stove is the best, no contest. There is no such thing and it is not helpful.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> I'm a figment of your imagination.
> 
> Just kidding... thanks for the call!
> 
> Sorry guys, been a bit busy recently.  Was also getting my knuckles slapped by one of the newer mod's too frequently, accused of being a BK fanboy anytime I answered a question from a new user asking about BK stoves.  It just wasn't fun anymore.
> 
> Hope you're all ready for winter.  I'm still running the two Ashford 30's, one on a 2018 steelcat, the the other on BKVP's then-secret "B3" ceramic cat (since April 2017!).  I'll be running nothing but the new ceramic cats, once I manage to toast the steelcat, their wider passages seem to do a better job with the fine ash kicked up by the stronger air wash in the "30" series stoves.  They light off fast, hold it long, and show no signs of cracking or deterioration of any kind after 3+ seasons at 6+ cords per season in that one stove.  I'm guessing they're not cheap, given the more expensive coating applied to them, but I'm sold on them.


Welcome back!  I for one am glad the 'vid didn't get you.


----------



## 05ramctd

Hello all, got a question where to find a part.  I have a BK king parlor and my door latch bushing is wore.  Any idea where I can find one?  Thanks in advance…


----------



## Highbeam

05ramctd said:


> Hello all, got a question where to find a part.  I have a BK king parlor and my door latch bushing is wore.  Any idea where I can find one?  Thanks in advance…



I have a princess and can’t envision what you’re calling a latch bushing. If this thing can wear out, I want to check mine.


----------



## kennyp2339

05ramctd said:


> Hello all, got a question where to find a part.  I have a BK king parlor and my door latch bushing is wore.  Any idea where I can find one?  Thanks in advance…











						Door Latch Blade AND 0693 Hook Catch replacement S.Z5784 - Hechler’s Mainstreet Hearth & Home | Troy, Missouri
					

Blaze King new style door latch 5784BC. Used on single door Blaze King stoves. It is used on the new production stoves and in combination with the 0693 new style latch catch. Note, you receive both the new style blade latch with roll pin and the new style flat ended latch catch




					www.hechlers.com
				












						Blaze King Single Door Latch Assembly- new style Z5785 - Hechler’s Mainstreet Hearth & Home | Troy, Missouri
					

New style Blaze King Z5785 handle repair kit. For PE1006, KE1107, PI1010A, ROYAL GARDIAN RGT-3001 This is for the newer stoves with only one door handle. When ordering this handle we suggest you also order a new door latch catch part 0683. This handle is the latest style and works better with...




					www.hechlers.com


----------



## Captain Caveman

I'm finally going to get to purchase my Ashcroft 25 next week that I have been wanting since they came out.  What has been the  consensus from everyone on this insert?


----------



## Alpine1

@Ashful 
Welcome back!


----------



## showrguy

Ashful said:


> I'm a figment of your imagination.
> 
> Just kidding... thanks for the call!
> 
> Sorry guys, been a bit busy recently.  Was also getting my knuckles slapped by one of the newer mod's too frequently, accused of being a BK fanboy anytime I answered a question from a new user asking about BK stoves.  It just wasn't fun anymore.
> 
> Hope you're all ready for winter.  I'm still running the two Ashford 30's, one on a 2018 steelcat, the the other on BKVP's then-secret "B3" ceramic cat (since April 2017!).  I'll be running nothing but the new ceramic cats, once I manage to toast the steelcat, their wider passages seem to do a better job with the fine ash kicked up by the stronger air wash in the "30" series stoves.  They light off fast, hold it long, and show no signs of cracking or deterioration of any kind after 3+ seasons at 6+ cords per season in that one stove.  I'm guessing they're not cheap, given the more expensive coating applied to them, but I'm sold on them.


@Ashful, great to see ya back,, alot of us miss your stories and pictures of your setup(s)..


----------



## showrguy

kennyp2339 said:


> Door Latch Blade AND 0693 Hook Catch replacement S.Z5784 - Hechler’s Mainstreet Hearth & Home | Troy, Missouri
> 
> 
> Blaze King new style door latch 5784BC. Used on single door Blaze King stoves. It is used on the new production stoves and in combination with the 0693 new style latch catch. Note, you receive both the new style blade latch with roll pin and the new style flat ended latch catch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hechlers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blaze King Single Door Latch Assembly- new style Z5785 - Hechler’s Mainstreet Hearth & Home | Troy, Missouri
> 
> 
> New style Blaze King Z5785 handle repair kit. For PE1006, KE1107, PI1010A, ROYAL GARDIAN RGT-3001 This is for the newer stoves with only one door handle. When ordering this handle we suggest you also order a new door latch catch part 0683. This handle is the latest style and works better with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hechlers.com


Kenny, my Princess did the same thing a year or so ago..
you’d think ( I did ), that there would be a bushing in there, but there is not..
I ended up taking the door off, took it to a buddy that’s a machinist, he drilled out the brass block and turned a bushing for it… good as new..
I refused to spend over 100 bucks on a new handle assy. When all I needed was a damn bushing..


----------



## 05ramctd

Looks like a bushing.  The rod has some slip in it


----------



## 05ramctd

Thanks for the information did not want to buy the whole assembly but if I have to I will. Thanks for the help.


----------



## ratsrepus

05ramctd said:


> Looks like a bushing.  The rod has some slip in it
> 
> View attachment 284264


I think mines been sloppy sense new .


----------



## MTASH

Todd said:


> This is what I used to do with my Princess. When you have a pile of coals raked forward you can even out the load if you stack a few splits E/W in the back then  pack it full N/S on top of that. I think it may give you a little longer burn with those E/W splits tucked back in there.


I do the same as you and @Poindexter.

I usually also cross-stack when I do a top down cold start.  With my low draft it helps get the load going faster.


----------



## kennyp2339

Round 3 on my connector pipe leak, and this time it’s fixed for good
Round 1 was laying the adapter onto the flue collar, making it “snug” but that cut off the air holes for the dvl. 
Round 2 was raise the adapter up 2” to the holes on the flue collar, zip some screws in, which worked and allowed air into the holes at the base of the dvl, but I continued to have and noticeable or auditable air leak when running the stove on high, due to the flue collar being 6” and the inner adapter piece being 5 & 5/8” with screwing the inner piece I couldn’t get the seal needed. 
Round 3 was the fix, picked up a 24g 6” single wall male to male, the male end slid perfectly and snugly into the flue collar, had to trim approx 1/2” off the end so that it wasn’t going past the flue collar opening into the cat chamber. The inner dvl piece slid perfectly into the other male end. 
Loaded the stove up with smaller splits and a let a fire rip, lots of heavy flames, T stat wide open, no air noises what so ever, very, very happy.


----------



## Highbeam

kennyp2339 said:


> Round 3 on my connector pipe leak, and this time it’s fixed for good
> Round 1 was laying the adapter onto the flue collar, making it “snug” but that cut off the air holes for the dvl.
> Round 2 was raise the adapter up 2” to the holes on the flue collar, zip some screws in, which worked and allowed air into the holes at the base of the dvl, but I continued to have and noticeable or auditable air leak when running the stove on high, due to the flue collar being 6” and the inner adapter piece being 5 & 5/8” with screwing the inner piece I couldn’t get the seal needed.
> Round 3 was the fix, picked up a 24g 6” single wall male to male, the male end slid perfectly and snugly into the flue collar, had to trim approx 1/2” off the end so that it wasn’t going past the flue collar opening into the cat chamber. The inner dvl piece slid perfectly into the other male end.
> Loaded the stove up with smaller splits and a let a fire rip, lots of heavy flames, T stat wide open, no air noises what so ever, very, very happy.
> 
> View attachment 284302
> View attachment 284303



So did you screw the bottom of the appliance adapter into the top of the male/male single wall? I couldn't see the screws. I think member @webby3650 has suggested a similar solution but with a more attractive chunk of single wall at the stove end.


----------



## Diabel

All that aside. I still do not get why the stove top thermometer…..is that a permanent fixture?


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> So did you screw the bottom of the appliance adapter into the top of the male/male single wall? I couldn't see the screws. I think member @webby3650 has suggested a similar solution but with a more attractive chunk of single wall at the stove end.


No screws yet, it was a very tight fit to begin with and I was testing it out first (wanted to have that oh crap let me swap it back fast to its original setup time) I will be screwing it now that I know it works.



Diabel said:


> All that aside. I still do not get why the stove top thermometer…..is that a permanent fixture?


Just for show, it was on the old stove and traveled over, it doesnt do anything other then put scratches into the stove paint, but I digress.


----------



## begreen

dafattkidd said:


> Hello friends, I’ve just ordered a BK Ashford Insert in black. I’ve been burning wood for a long time in other units. So, I know the basics; dry wood, full load cycles, clean chimney, etc.
> 
> I also know that each stove has its own little idiosyncrasies. What are some stove specific tips, tricks, hints, hacks and advice for the BK Ashford 25?  I’m super excited to get this new insert and I’m really looking forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Questions I have:
> What are realistic burn times on low, medium and high?


Burn times are going to vary with the wood, draft strength, house heat loss, etc. A range of 24 on low to 8 when being pushed for heat is probably realistic.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Amy idea how to get the door clean? It's almost blacked out.

Did the wet newspaper and ash trick. No dice.

Ran it on high for 2 hours with a small stack and never cleared. Should I clean it hot?

Scrape it off with a razor?

Using 18 month old ash wood kept under a pole building lean to. Split the largest splits, all read around 12-14% moisture.


----------



## Diabel

begreen said:


> Burn times are going to vary with the wood, draft strength, house heat loss, etc. A range of 24 on low to 8 when being pushed for heat is probably realistic.


Not sure if 24h is realistic on the 25 box. Just from reading stuff here.


----------



## Highbeam

1990dtgl98 said:


> Amy idea how to get the door clean? It's almost blacked out.
> 
> Did the wet newspaper and ash trick. No dice.
> 
> Ran it on high for 2 hours with a small stack and never cleared. Should I clean it hot?
> 
> Scrape it off with a razor?
> 
> Using 18 month old ash wood kept under a pole building lean to. Split the largest splits, all read around 12-14% moisture.
> 
> View attachment 284350
> View attachment 284351
> View attachment 284352


It’s the nature of the beast when run at lower settings which is my favorite setting. 

This isn’t soot, it’s creosote and will accumulate to a thick crust that is best removed with a blade. Be careful not to scratch the glass or yourself. 

Usually, during the winter, the middle of the glass stays relatively clean but those bottom corners are affectionately known as the dragon eyes in our house. I clean it off maybe once or twice per 9 month heating season.


----------



## Nealm66

1990dtgl98 said:


> Amy idea how to get the door clean? It's almost blacked out.
> 
> Did the wet newspaper and ash trick. No dice.
> 
> Ran it on high for 2 hours with a small stack and never cleared. Should I clean it hot?
> 
> Scrape it off with a razor?
> 
> Using 18 month old ash wood kept under a pole building lean to. Split the largest splits, all read around 12-14% moisture.
> 
> View attachment 284350
> View attachment 284351
> View attachment 284352


Looks like a nice supply of wood!


----------



## stoveliker

1990dtgl98 said:


> Amy idea how to get the door clean? It's almost blacked out.
> 
> Did the wet newspaper and ash trick. No dice.
> 
> Ran it on high for 2 hours with a small stack and never cleared. Should I clean it hot?
> 
> Scrape it off with a razor?
> 
> Using 18 month old ash wood kept under a pole building lean to. Split the largest splits, all read around 12-14% moisture.
> 
> View attachment 284350
> View attachment 284351
> View attachment 284352



When I run high to clean the glass, I do it with a full firebox, not a small fill. For me that works, also in the corners.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Nealm66 said:


> Looks like a nice supply of wood!


 I really lucked out. Guy that does lawn care for a estate took on that project. Whole fence row of ash trees that got taken out by the ash borer. He filled up 12 loads on my 7x16 tandem axle trailer and didn't want any cash except 20 bucks a trailer for gas for his skid steer (so I didn't have to load them there). 

Honestly probably had 10 more trailer loads but my back gave out on me, and I told him I wasn't that greedy and he didn't need to hold it.

Now I figure if I get 2 trailer loads of free wood a year on Facebook marketplace I should be good to keep it stockpiled (already found 3 this season).


----------



## Nealm66

1990dtgl98 said:


> I really lucked out. Guy that does lawn care for a estate took on that project. Whole fence row of ash trees that got taken out by the ash borer. He filled up 12 loads on my 7x16 tandem axle trailer and didn't want any cash except 20 bucks a trailer for gas for his skid steer (so I didn't have to load them there).
> 
> Honestly probably had 10 more trailer loads but my back gave out on me, and I told him I wasn't that greedy and he didn't need to hold it.
> 
> Now I figure if I get 2 trailer loads of free wood a year on Facebook marketplace I should be good to keep it stockpiled (already found 3 this season).


How many seasons have you had the stove?  My glass cleans up pretty good when I run it on the hotter side when it gets cold. It blackens right back up when I run it on a lower setting but it’s worth it to me to keep the house from over heating and longer between reloading


----------



## Ashful

begreen said:


> Lest fingers are pointed, this was noted by several mods. The bounds were stretched or overreached several times. It's not fun for a new person seeking information to get bombed with comments like my stove is the best, no contest. There is no such thing and it is not helpful.



True, begreen.  But if you review the record, you’ll find two incidents in my last week here, where a new user presented a question about BK stoves in particular, and I was harassed for simply responding. 

Have fun, guys.  I think I’ll be spending my time elsewhere.


----------



## Poindexter

dafattkidd said:


> Hello friends, I’ve just ordered a BK Ashford Insert in black. I’ve been burning wood for a long time in other units. So, I know the basics; dry wood, full load cycles, clean chimney, etc.
> 
> I also know that each stove has its own little idiosyncrasies. What are some stove specific tips, tricks, hints, hacks and advice for the BK Ashford 25?  I’m super excited to get this new insert and I’m really looking forward to hearing from you.
> 
> Questions I have:
> What are realistic burn times on low, medium and high?
> 
> What size splits work best for you (length and diameter of split size)?
> 
> What is your preferred wood loading procedure (NS, EW, cribbed, etc)?
> 
> Any other hints, tricks, hacks or processes that work for you?



I don't actually own one of those, but I have left drool spots on a Boxer 24 (same innards) at my local BK showroom.

On hot reloads I would first try scooching the live coals to the front right, then load the full depth middle section NS so you can see end grain, and then maybe put a fair sized split cut to 8" length - vertically- in the remaining open area at the left front.  

It may not be worth the trouble.  If you got a bunch of live coals it might make more sense to bring the coals to both front corners and then load N-S in the middle.  I got nothing on burn times, too many variables.  Good luck.


----------



## clancey

Poindexter now that's a beautiful stove...clancey


			https://www.blazeking.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/BK_BX24_Boxer_Broch_2020.pdf


----------



## dafattkidd

Poindexter said:


> I don't actually own one of those, but I have left drool spots on a Boxer 24 (same innards) at my local BK showroom.
> 
> On hot reloads I would first try scooching the live coals to the front right, then load the full depth middle section NS so you can see end grain, and then maybe put a fair sized split cut to 8" length - vertically- in the remaining open area at the left front.
> 
> It may not be worth the trouble.  If you got a bunch of live coals it might make more sense to bring the coals to both front corners and then load N-S in the middle.  I got nothing on burn times, too many variables.  Good luck.


Thank you! I will consider this advice.


----------



## dafattkidd

begreen said:


> Burn times are going to vary with the wood, draft strength, house heat loss, etc. A range of 24 on low to 8 when being pushed for heat is probably realistic.


Thanks! I know this is not an exact science, but I’d love to hear some real world experiences of Ashford 25 owners.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Nealm66 said:


> How many seasons have you had the stove?  My glass cleans up pretty good when I run it on the hotter side when it gets cold. It blackens right back up when I run it on a lower setting but it’s worth it to me to keep the house from over heating and longer between reloading



First season.

Last 3 years in the new house was an old fisher insert without glass doors.


----------



## Tron

Poindexter said:


> I don't actually own one of those, but I have left drool spots on a Boxer 24 (same innards) at my local BK showroom.


Not sure if I do this differently than anyone else, but I noticed that the Boxer has a storage space for wood below the firebox. I never store wood inside, there's always lots of critters in firewood (insects, mostly), and when you bring the wood inside and let it warm up, they can get very active...


----------



## stoveliker

Tron said:


> Not sure if I do this differently than anyone else, but I noticed that the Boxer has a storage space for wood below the firebox. I never store wood inside, there's always lots of critters in firewood (insects, mostly), and when you bring the wood inside and let it warm up, they can get very active...



Tht may be a climate thing; here the occasional spider, but nothing else. I repurposed an old 4-square black ikea storage unit (kallax?) - until it falls apart, that is. Fits about one full load per square. I have no trouble with bugs.


----------



## moresnow

Zero bug/critter issue with my indoor wood storage . Most/all of my wood is bark free when I bring it in which makes a considerable difference in bugginess


----------



## clancey

That is nice to know...clancey


----------



## Puposky

Hello all,
First time posting but used this site a lot and it helped in my decision to get a blaze king princess last year.  Do not regret my decision but my cat appears to be not working if I turn it much below a medium burn.  It takes quite a while to kick out but i am not getting the burn times and it shows it in the inactive zone when there is a 1/4 of the wood left.  Last year, until the very end, I would get hours more in the active zone with that amount left.  At the end of last year I was getting a little suspicious of this as well.  I also am seeing more smoke than usual, once I engage the bypass I always have a bit of smoke coming out, where as last year, until the end I had none.

I did a gasket check and it was pretty easy to pull a dollar bill thru one spot between the hinges, I was never really impressed by the factory installation of the gasket seemed a bit slapped in.  Admittedly on two occasions I opened the door before I disengaged the bypass.  A big no no I understand but too used to my old stove I guess.  Both times the stove was already out of the active zone but… that may have been my undoing?

I ordered a new gasket thru hecklers and some high temp silicone, but read here that I should only get an oem gasket.  Hecklers states it is for a blaze king princess, should I not use it?  Also, is high temp silicone ok?  Appreciate any advice 

Thanks


----------



## Tron

moresnow said:


> Zero bug/critter issue with my indoor wood storage . Most/all of my wood is bark free when I bring it in which makes a considerable difference in bugginess


Yes, that may be a reason. I mostly harvest dead but standing trees, and there the insect population may be higher. Plus the warm climate. If it already peels off, I leave the bark in the woods, but that's not always possible to peel off.


----------



## Tron

Puposky said:


> it shows it in the inactive zone when there is a 1/4 of the wood left.


It's more of a thermostat setting thing than a fuel-left thing. The older a cat gets, the higher a thermostat setting it needs to stay active, but the amount of fuel left has little to do with it.

If I turn the thermostat of my Chinook lower than about 3 o'clock, maybe 2:30 (shoulder season in MS), it's only on the very edge of the active zone and there's almost no cat glow. But no smoke, either, so it should be working.


----------



## Puposky

Tron said:


> It's more of a thermostat setting thing than a fuel-left thing. The older a cat gets, the higher a thermostat setting it needs to stay active, but the amount of fuel left has little to do with it.
> 
> If I turn the thermostat of my Chinook lower than about 3 o'clock, maybe 2:30 (shoulder season in MS), it's only on the very edge of the active zone and there's almost no cat glow. But no smoke, either, so it should be working.


Ok.  I have been setting it at about 3 o’clock and it snuffs out with no cat glow and a line of smoke and quite a bit of wood left.  Maybe I’ll try 4 o’clock and see what happens.  I also seem to be getting significantly less burn time than before and the cat is only a year old.  Do they drop off that fast?


----------



## showrguy

Puposky said:


> Ok.  I have been setting it at about 3 o’clock and it snuffs out with no cat glow and a line of smoke and quite a bit of wood left.  Maybe I’ll try 4 o’clock and see what happens.  I also seem to be getting significantly less burn time than before and the cat is only a year old.  Do they drop off that fast?


Setting for me is no lower than 3:15 on both the King and the Princess..
No you will not wear out a CAT in one season unless your burning something other than dry firewood..
please tell us about your wood gathering/seasoning methods..


----------



## Puposky

showrguy said:


> Setting for me is no lower than 3:15 on both the King and the Princess..
> No you will not wear out a CAT in one season unless your burning something other than dry firewood..
> please tell us about your wood gathering/seasoning methods..


Wood is dry, usually single row stacked with a top cover, 3 years for oak 2-3 for everything else.   I have a meter and check my wood by grabbing an unfrozen chunk, splitting it and checking the middle. My oak has been coming in at 17%, most everything else is lower.  Last year I’d stuff stove and finally settle in at about the 2:00 position and it would stay in active zone for 20 plus hours now it drops out of active zone much earlier at the 3:00 position.  I just got stove turned down to 5, I’ll set it at 4:00 or so and see what happens.  I did open door twice last year with the stove in bypass mode as I stated in my original post but it was in the inactive zone.  My mistake, too used to my old stove, I don’t know if that would damage the cat?


----------



## stoveliker

I hope @BKVP chimes in. At least I hope you filled.out that combustor warranty card if the thing really is near dead (which would be surprising to me).

I don't think opening the door with the bypass closed would deactivate the cat. If it's hot it might crack. If it's cold, as in your case, you'll get some smoke in the room but that should be it. Some room air would go thru the cat anytime when the door is open even if the bypass is open (because the impedance ratio between bypass and cat is not infinite).

I don't think the cases you describe damaged the cat 

Can you take a pic of your cat (not taking it out!) next time you let it cool downto room temp? Take the screen off (loose in its brackets) and snap a pic. Is it plugged with ash? Is it covered in creosote? Curious how it looks.


----------



## begreen

Puposky said:


> Wood is dry, usually single row stacked with a top cover, 3 years for oak 2-3 for everything else.   I have a meter and check my wood by grabbing an unfrozen chunk, splitting it and checking the middle. My oak has been coming in at 17%, most everything else is lower.  Last year I’d stuff stove and finally settle in at about the 2:00 position and it would stay in active zone for 20 plus hours now it drops out of active zone much earlier at the 3:00 position.  I just got stove turned down to 5, I’ll set it at 4:00 or so and see what happens.  I did open door twice last year with the stove in bypass mode as I stated in my original post but it was in the inactive zone.  My mistake, too used to my old stove, I don’t know if that would damage the cat?


What does the cat look like? Is it plugged with ash? Eroded or cells intact?


----------



## Puposky

I had the stove cooled down this morning to check gasket and removed flame shield and cat looked brand new.  I vacuumed it out at start of wood burning for this year and there was hardly any build up/ash on it then and nothing today.  It is a metal cat as well.  As showrguy and tron said maybe I need to adjust my thermostat setting from  where it was last year.


----------



## Puposky

No erosion or cracks.  Last year my final setting was at the very end of the white on the tstat, about 2:00.  This year I have been putting it in same spot, then noticing it is dropping out of activeby morning, then cranking it to 3:00 - 3:30 to get it back in active zone.  This time I’ve done my finale setting at 3:30 to see if it stays active thru the night till morning, cuz at 2:00 setting in the morning it’s been inactive in the morning , with wood left.  Hopefully this works and I can still get good burn times


----------



## begreen

Puposky said:


> I had the stove cooled down this morning to check gasket and removed flame shield and cat looked brand new.  I vacuumed it out at start of wood burning for this year and there was hardly any build up/ash on it then and nothing today.  It is a metal cat as well.  As showrguy and tron said maybe I need to adjust my thermostat setting from  where it was last year.


Yes, a metal cat won't have those issues. Did you blow some air through it just in case there is ash trapped in some of the passages?


----------



## Puposky

begreen said:


> Yes, a metal cat won't have those issues. Did you blow some air through it just in case there is ash trapped in some of the passages?


That I did not do.  I will the next time it’s cooled down.


----------



## moresnow

Puposky said:


> That I did not do.  I will the next time it’s cooled down.


Have you vacuumed the backside of the cat? I do it when cleaning the pipe. Every time. I've also used canned/compressed air on them with some success.  Food for thought. Tough to believe you have a dead cat already. Likely the warm weather messing with your low set point due to lack of draft.


----------



## kennyp2339

@Puposky If you could post some pics it would be appreciated, I want to see what your door looks like, that will give the idea if your truely having a gasket issue, you may not need to replace the gasket either, since its a year old stove you may just need to tighten the door latch (easily done) and that will keep you good to go. 
I would also check your chimney cap, cat chamber in the stove for fallen creosote flakes, if the chimney is a little plugged then you will have a slower draw which might be contributing to your cat stalls. You may also want to test your t-stat knob to make sure that it didnt slide off the rod a little (when you think your running medium you cold be running low) But pics pf your stove, stove door, cat face and chimney first please.


----------



## kennyp2339

Stability is the word of the day here, did my second fire since adding that little single wall adapter to my stove collar and dvl pipe, the fire seems much better, responsive wise and burn time, the first fire was lit Friday morning and burned literally 24hrs on a single load, the fire from last night is still going, about 2/3 of the fuel is gone but I have the stove on low since it isnt really cold out anyway, just happy to have this figured out. 
I also bought home a small air nozzle for my air compressor, planning on taking the fan off and giving it a good blast of air to clean things up.


----------



## Tron

Puposky said:


> Last year my final setting was at the very end of the white on the tstat, about 2:00.  This year I have been putting it in same spot, then noticing it is dropping out of active by morning, then cranking it to 3:00 - 3:30 to get it back in active zone.


Sounds about right. I won't say that every thermostat position is the same on every stove, but at 2:30 mine also stalls out eventually.  At that setting, there's no flame and hardly any coal glow to see, so that's not surprising. To keep it running on low I usually dial it to around 3:00, and somewhat higher when it's freezing outside. 
We installed it in February 2020, and we don't run it overnight. Plus it's Mississippi, so the cat really doesn't have that many hours on it.


----------



## Puposky

kennyp2339 said:


> @Puposky If you could post some pics it would be appreciated, I want to see what your door looks like, that will give the idea if your truely having a gasket issue, you may not need to replace the gasket either, since its a year old stove you may just need to tighten the door latch (easily done) and that will keep you good to go.
> I would also check your chimney cap, cat chamber in the stove for fallen creosote flakes, if the chimney is a little plugged then you will have a slower draw which might be contributing to your cat stalls. You may also want to test your t-stat knob to make sure that it didnt slide off the rod a little (when you think your running medium you cold be running low) But pics pf your stove, stove door, cat face and chimney first please.


Cleaned chimney September , so that’s clean.  I’ll try to post some pics after work.  Thanks


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> Cleaned chimney September , so that’s clean.  I’ll try to post some pics after work.  Thanks



The cats, especially steel, can plug on the back which is weird but it happens and is more likely than a worn out cat.


----------



## AndrewU

Gotta say I LOVE my Ashford 30.  Letting her burn out today so I can empty the ash.  Putting that in was the best way to spend $8000 (all in, including the tiled raised hearth) I can think of.


----------



## stoveliker

You don't need to let it burn out; rake the coals to one side, scoop the ash on the other side. Won't get all the ash, but you don't want to empty all anyway. Moreover, doing this with hot coals keeps some draft going, and with some careful motion, any dust you make will nicely go up the flue rather than into you home/lungs.


----------



## Puposky

Hopefully I did this right, I can’t computer very well, and the photos show up.  I blew out the cat with the compressor and there was definitely some level of buildup in it, we’ll see if it helps tonight.

Last night around 5 I had a 2/3 full load of birch and a little oak.  I settled it in at 3:30 instead of 2:30 and got up at 5 this morning.  At 2:30 I’d have 1/4 of the wood left but be out of the active zone.  This morning I had no wood left and out of the active zone, so just seemed to burn faster.  The biggest thing I notice is last year I’d have 1/4 load left in morning still in active zone at 2:00 and hours left to go.  Hopefully blowing the cat out solves it!!


----------



## showrguy

Puposky said:


> Hopefully I did this right, I can’t computer very well, and the photos show up.  I blew out the cat with the compressor and there was definitely some level of buildup in it, we’ll see if it helps tonight.
> 
> Last night around 5 I had a 2/3 full load of birch and a little oak.  I settled it in at 3:30 instead of 2:30 and got up at 5 this morning.  At 2:30 I’d have 1/4 of the wood left but be out of the active zone.  This morning I had no wood left and out of the active zone, so just seemed to burn faster.  The biggest thing I notice is last year I’d have 1/4 load left in morning still in active zone at 2:00 and hours left to go.  Hopefully blowing the cat out solves it!!
> 
> View attachment 284520
> View attachment 284521
> View attachment 284522
> View attachment 284523


Try setting @ 3:15, I think that’ll be your happy place..


----------



## Nealm66

I’m on my second season with a princess and it seems to be running the same as last year. It goes below active when the fire is almost completely burned out and just a few coals. I forgot to bypass mine a couple times on reloading and like you, I thought I might have caused damage but doesn’t seem to be the case. I never filled out the warranty thing and had actually planned on just replacing it every couple years so I didn’t have to try diagnosing it but it doesn’t seem to have degraded at all that I’ve noticed. Here’s my sweet spot


----------



## stoveliker

Puposky said:


> Hopefully I did this right, I can’t computer very well, and the photos show up.  I blew out the cat with the compressor and there was definitely some level of buildup in it, we’ll see if it helps tonight.
> 
> Last night around 5 I had a 2/3 full load of birch and a little oak.  I settled it in at 3:30 instead of 2:30 and got up at 5 this morning.  At 2:30 I’d have 1/4 of the wood left but be out of the active zone.  This morning I had no wood left and out of the active zone, so just seemed to burn faster.  The biggest thing I notice is last year I’d have 1/4 load left in morning still in active zone at 2:00 and hours left to go.  Hopefully blowing the cat out solves it!!
> 
> View attachment 284520
> View attachment 284521
> View attachment 284522
> View attachment 284523


To me all this looks fine. Cat and gasket and window.

So I'm a bit stumped if your flue is good as you state.

Have you taken off the stove pipe at the collar and looked whether all is ok behind the cat?


----------



## kennyp2339

Puposky said:


> the photos show up


Door gasket looks pretty good and you have the creosote marks on the glass that would suggest a leaking gasket, you can adjust the door latch to make things a little more snug if you think it could use it. 
I say build a fire and let her rip, you shouldnt have any issues, if the cat is bad (highly doubt it because they are a lot tougher then one would think) its under warrentee anyway. The dealer would send for one, once it comes in then its a 30 second swap out.


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> Have you taken off the stove pipe at the collar and looked whether all is ok behind the cat


Thats what I was thinking, I know when I clean my chimney I vaccume the cat chamber then take my cell phone flash light and make sure the little pocket directly in front of the cat doesnt have any flyash or crumbs.


----------



## stoveliker

kennyp2339 said:


> Door gasket looks pretty good and you have the creosote marks on the glass that would suggest a leaking gasket, you can adjust the door latch to make things a little more snug if you think it could use it.
> I say build a fire and let her rip, you shouldnt have any issues, if the cat is bad (highly doubt it because they are a lot tougher then one would think) its under warrentee anyway. The dealer would send for one, once it comes in then its a 30 second swap out.



To me the glass just looks like the corner blackness from not running full speed.
Moreover, if the gasket leaks, I think you'd have blackness on the gasket. There is some brown, but not indicating a leak imo.


----------



## Puposky

Nealm66 said:


> I’m on my second season with a princess and it seems to be running the same as last year. It goes below active when the fire is almost completely burned out and just a few coals. I forgot to bypass mine a couple times on reloading and like you, I thought I might have caused damage but doesn’t seem to be the case. I never filled out the warranty thing and had actually planned on just replacing it every couple years so I didn’t have to try diagnosing it but it doesn’t seem to have degraded at all that I’ve noticed. Here’s my sweet spot
> 
> View attachment 284525


That’s how mine behaved last year, I couldn’t believe my burn times, hopefully my cat was plugged on the back.  How long of burns do you get in that position?


----------



## Puposky

stoveliker said:


> To me all this looks fine. Cat and gasket and window.
> 
> So I'm a bit stumped if your flue is good as you state.
> 
> Have you taken off the stove pipe at the collar and looked whether all is ok behind the cat?


I cleaned it out mid September, but I did not try looking at the back of the cat.  I took the collar off but just vacuumed out what was easy.


----------



## stoveliker

Puposky said:


> That’s how mine behaved last year, I couldn’t believe my burn times, hopefully my cat was plugged on the back.  How long of burns do you get in that position?



You really can't compare the burn times between set ups. Wood type and moisture level, draft (flue stack, weather, geography, home tightness) all matter in the actual performance.

But the sudden different behavior is somewhat concerning to me.


----------



## Nealm66

Puposky said:


> That’s how mine behaved last year, I couldn’t believe my burn times, hopefully my cat was plugged on the back.  How long of burns do you get in that position?


That’s my 12-14 hour refuel wether it’s ready or not. I’m probably not the best example for cat life. I refuel when my work schedule allows and sometimes it’s not ready but it gets done. I turn it to a lower setting after it’s been going a while and that puts me around the 24hour. I normally burn Doug fir. Struggling with the weather here, needs to be a little colder lol.


----------



## Puposky

kennyp2339 said:


> Door gasket looks pretty good and you have the creosote marks on the glass that would suggest a leaking gasket, you can adjust the door latch to make things a little more snug if you think it could use it.
> I say build a fire and let her rip, you shouldnt have any issues, if the cat is bad (highly doubt it because they are a lot tougher then one would think) its under warrentee anyway. The dealer would send for one, once it comes in then its a 30 second swap out.


Door is quite snug.  The only spot that was kinda easy to pull a dollar thru was between the hinges.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> I’m on my second season with a princess and it seems to be running the same as last year. It goes below active when the fire is almost completely burned out and just a few coals. I forgot to bypass mine a couple times on reloading and like you, I thought I might have caused damage but doesn’t seem to be the case. I never filled out the warranty thing and had actually planned on just replacing it every couple years so I didn’t have to try diagnosing it but it doesn’t seem to have degraded at all that I’ve noticed. Here’s my sweet spot
> 
> View attachment 284525



You shouldn't notice cat degradation on just the start of the second season. Look for failure this spring when trying to burn low and slow. If it lasts for twenty years of smoke free awesomeness, that's great too!


----------



## Puposky

stoveliker said:


> You really can't compare the burn times between set ups. Wood type and moisture level, draft (flue stack, weather, geography, home tightness) all matter in the actual performance.
> 
> But the sudden different behavior is somewhat concerning to me.


Exactly, last year a 2/3 load, at these temps, around 32 degrees was lasting 16-20 hours.  Now, I’m getting 12 and it’s inactive.  Hopefully blowing this thing out is the ticket.  I feel like there was buildup behind the cat.


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> I cleaned it out mid September, but I did not try looking at the back of the cat.  I took the collar off but just vacuumed out what was easy.



You won't be able to see too much of the cat when it's installed by looking down through the flue collar. There is a funny little steel curtain that hangs down behind the cat.

Hopefully you can see enough to determine it is clean or plugged and for sure you need to clean the cat chamber after sweeping. Lots of stuff gets up there and can pile up behind the cat. It can be so much that getting the bypass to close tight is a problem.

Another trick to verifying a clean cat is to shove your phone up in front of the cat and try and take pictures looking right into the cells. Looking "through" the cat.

The setting of about 2 o'clock will get me about 20 hours of active cat time in my princess with softwood doug fir, maple, alder, etc. Full load packed tight. 

Your door glass creosote pattern is totally normal. Looks fine.


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> Exactly, last year a 2/3 load, at these temps, around 32 degrees was lasting 16-20 hours.  Now, I’m getting 12 and it’s inactive.  Hopefully blowing this thing out is the ticket.  I feel like there was buildup behind the cat.



Don't hit the cat with high pressure compressed air. You can actually damage the catalyst they tell us. BK has said you can use a can of air like they sell for keyboards which is at 60 psi. What I have done is crank down the air compressor regulator to 20 psi and puff puff the cat clean through a 3/16" rubber vacuum hose . Though I never had in issue with cloggage due to my setup particulars.


----------



## Diabel

kennyp2339 said:


> you have the creosote marks on the glass that would suggest a leaking gasket



@kennyp2339…..what? My glass has been black for three years….I think your fingers were typing too fast….


----------



## Puposky

Highbeam said:


> Don't hit the cat with high pressure compressed air. You can actually damage the catalyst they tell us. BK has said you can use a can of air like they sell for keyboards which is at 60 psi. What I have done is crank down the air compressor regulator to 20 psi and puff puff the cat clean through a 3/16" rubber vacuum hose . Though I never had in issue with cloggage due to my setup particulars.


Too late!


----------



## Nealm66

Lol


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> Have you taken off the stove pipe at the collar and looked whether all is ok behind the cat


Thats what I was thinking, I know when I clean my chimney I vaccume the cat chamber then take my cell phone flash light and make sure the little pocket directly in front of the cat doesnt have any flyash or crumbs.


Diabel said:


> @kennyp2339…..what? My glass has been black for three years….I think your fingers were typing too fast….


Yeah, there should have been "DON'T"


----------



## Nealm66

I think 12 -15 is a pretty normal. Mine is hovering between active and not active for the 24 cycle and I don’t turn it down until it been going for a while on the 12-14 setting. Wood type definitely makes a difference. I had Idaho press logs go easy 30 hours last year


----------



## Puposky

Highbeam said:


> You won't be able to see too much of the cat when it's installed by looking down through the flue collar. There is a funny little steel curtain that hangs down behind the cat.
> 
> Hopefully you can see enough to determine it is clean or plugged and for sure you need to clean the cat chamber after sweeping. Lots of stuff gets up there and can pile up behind the cat. It can be so much that getting the bypass to close tight is a problem.
> 
> Another trick to verifying a clean cat is to shove your phone up in front of the cat and try and take pictures looking right into the cells. Looking "through" the cat.
> 
> The setting of about 2 o'clock will get me about 20 hours of active cat time in my princess with softwood doug fir, maple, alder, etc. Full load packed tight.
> 
> Your door glass creosote pattern is totally normal. Looks fine.


I’ll try cellphone trick in morning, I started a fire already.  I blew it out and am thinking that may have been it, hopefully.  Because of my house setup I usually burn at a pretty low setting, or try to, even tho I live in northern MN.  That may contribute to the possible buildup on backend of the cat.?


----------



## stoveliker

Puposky said:


> I’ll try cellphone trick in morning, I started a fire already.  I blew it out and am thinking that may have been it, hopefully.  Because of my house setup I usually burn at a pretty low setting, or try to, even tho I live in northern MN.  That may contribute to the possible buildup on backend of the cat.?



I'm not sure; if the cat is hot enough when closing the bypass, it should not accumulate much, but whatever accumulates should be more at the front than at the back (where less stuff exists to adsorb if the cat works, and where gases will be hotter because the exothermic reactions have heated them up and thus they'd stick less).


----------



## moresnow

Puposky said:


> I’ll try cellphone trick in morning, I started a fire already.  I blew it out and am thinking that may have been it, hopefully.  Because of my house setup I usually burn at a pretty low setting, or try to, even tho I live in northern MN.  That may contribute to the possible buildup on backend of the cat.?


The crud buildup behind the cat is residue that falls out of the pipe while cleaning or accumulation of crud from normal running in my experience. Shop vac gets it by removing the connector pipe and going in through the collar no problem. I use the flat hose extension to get in there nicely. A headlamp helps see into the stove while vac'ing. Or a small flashlight.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> I'm not sure; if the cat is hot enough when closing the bypass, it should not accumulate much, but whatever accumulates should be more at the front than at the back (where less stuff exists to adsorb if the cat works, and where gases will be hotter because the exothermic reactions have heated them up and thus they'd stick less).



The stuff plugging cats seems to be fly ash perhaps stirred up from high intake settings and strong drafts. Obviously, the tiny cells of a steel cat are more likely to plug. I don’t know why the plugging appears to be on the back of the cat. Maybe the front just burns clean.

There have been some good pics in the previous Bk performance threads.


----------



## Poindexter

@Puposky , how many cords did you burn in the stove so far?  We generally find here combustors are good for 10-14k hours in the active zone.  I am kind of an outlier in that I can run one into the ground in about 8k active hours, about 15 cords.  I would prefer to be running a princess in my house, but my wife liked the aesthetics of the Ashford 30, so I beat on my A30 like a rented mule.

It sounds like your wood is seasoned long enough and dry enough.  One thing you might do is bring a few pieces into the garage for 48 hours or so and then split them open to measure the MC on the freshly exposed face.  Typically pin type moisture meters are calibrated for Douglas Fir at +70dF.  Colder temps will read lower than actual.  If your wood is at +55dF all the way through you can add one point to what your meter reads for spruces and 2 points to what your meter reads for many hardwoods.  You should be good there, but "not frozen" and "+55dF" are not the same; at 17% measured and happy user last year you have some head room.

I don't see any smoke leaking through your door gasket.  Nice looking dog, and great looking racks.  Do you grind some of your venison with bacon instead of beef fat?  Moose ground with bacon 90-10 by weight is fabulous burgers up here.

Physically the combustor looks ok to me from the pics.  If you only burned 2 cords last year we might conclude your combustor has finally settled down from being new and hyperactive.  You have a ton of good advice and intelligent questions so far.  You might have a dud cat, but I am not a BK dealer and not yet convinced of that.

Did you do a dollar bill test on the gasket of the bypass door, and how many cords have your burnt so far?  Also, what are your current outdoor ambient temperatures?  This could be a draft thing related to warmer than normal temperatures outdoors, warmer than last year, but I don't even know where my work shoes are for tomorrow, never mind ambient temps three time zones from here.  Supposed to -20dF up here this time of year, it was +47 yesterday.


----------



## Puposky

Poindexter said:


> @Puposky , how many cords did you burn in the stove so far?  We generally find here combustors are good for 10-14k hours in the active zone.  I am kind of an outlier in that I can run one into the ground in about 8k active hours, about 15 cords.  I would prefer to be running a princess in my house, but my wife liked the aesthetics of the Ashford 30, so I beat on my A30 like a rented mule.
> 
> It sounds like your wood is seasoned long enough and dry enough.  One thing you might do is bring a few pieces into the garage for 48 hours or so and then split them open to measure the MC on the freshly exposed face.  Typically pin type moisture meters are calibrated for Douglas Fir at +70dF.  Colder temps will read lower than actual.  If your wood is at +55dF all the way through you can add one point to what your meter reads for spruces and 2 points to what your meter reads for many hardwoods.  You should be good there, but "not frozen" and "+55dF" are not the same; at 17% measured and happy user last year you have some head room.
> 
> I don't see any smoke leaking through your door gasket.  Nice looking dog, and great looking racks.  Do you grind some of your venison with bacon instead of beef fat?  Moose ground with bacon 90-10 by weight is fabulous burgers up here.
> 
> Physically the combustor looks ok to me from the pics.  If you only burned 2 cords last year we might conclude your combustor has finally settled down from being new and hyperactive.  You have a ton of good advice and intelligent questions so far.  You might have a dud cat, but I am not a BK dealer and not yet convinced of that.
> 
> Did you do a dollar bill test on the gasket of the bypass door, and how many cords have your burnt so far?  Also, what are your current outdoor ambient temperatures?  This could be a draft thing related to warmer than normal temperatures outdoors, warmer than last year, but I don't even know where my work shoes are for tomorrow, never mind ambient temps three time zones from here.  Supposed to -20dF up here this time of year, it was +47 yesterday.


Lately the temps have been around the freezing mark.  Last year I burned a little under 3 cords.  I kind of check my dryness throughout the year.  This time of year I bring in enough wood, after I stuff the stove,  for the next load to let it burn off any residual  moisture.  The wood I bring in is what I usually check, I split and check the center.  So it has usually been in about 24 hours, I don’t know if that is long enough to heat it up though.

Maybe the cat is just settling in, if that’s all then it’s cut my burn time back significantly.  Last night I put a 2/3 load of mostly oak/ some birch at 7 and this morning at 6 it is just active and wood is almost gone.  At least it stayed in active throughout the night this go round. Last year that would be an easy 20 +hr burn at these temps.  Now I’m struggling to get 12 hours,  if I set it low it snuffs out, if I put it at med-low it burns out in 11 hrs.  Maybe this is normal, but seems like most bk’s can coast to 20+ hours easy.  Ok, feel like I’m ranting here. 

I think I may take the cat out and make sure it’s not plugged or there is buildup behind it.  I may just order another for a backup, I was thinking of going ceramic for giggles.  The  Midwest store sells them with the expansion gasket on them so I should be able to pop it right in?  I suppose I should buy some 2” expansion gasket anyway, how much does it take to wrap a cat?

Also, I love bacon ground with my venison!!  That is my shed hunting partner, she loves the stove!!  

Thanks to everyone for helping me out I appreciate it a lot!


----------



## Tron

Puposky said:


> Now I’m struggling to get 12 hours,  if I set it low it snuffs out, if I put it at med-low it burns out in 11 hrs.  Maybe this is normal, but seems like most bk’s can coast to 20+ hours easy.


Well, it's all a function of burn rate (BTU/hr) and the BTU you pack in there. 20h might be possible at low output with high-BTU wood tightly packed tetris-style. My wood is mostly pine and amber trees, and even fully packed on low I barely get 12h. Nothing wrong with the stove, the wood is just gone by then. I suppose that's what you're experiencing, too.


----------



## Nealm66

I think something isn’t right. I get 12 -14 with Doug fir and that’s not really a full black screen setting. I thought the ones we purchase come with a ceramic cat?


----------



## stoveliker

Cat (metal or ceramic) depends on the model. I got a metal with my stove.


----------



## Puposky

Tron said:


> Well, it's all a function of burn rate (BTU/hr) and the BTU you pack in there. 20h might be possible at low output with high-BTU wood tightly packed tetris-style. My wood is mostly pine and amber trees, and even fully packed on low I barely get 12h. Nothing wrong with the stove, the wood is just gone by then. I suppose that's what you're experiencing, too.


I agree with everything you said here.  What I’m not understanding is I’m burning from the exact same stock as last year, birch, a bit of popple, hard and silver maple, burr oak, but mostly oak and birch, and getting significantly less time in similar weather conditions.  I feel I’m doing something different but can’t figure it out.


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> Lately the temps have been around the freezing mark.  Last year I burned a little under 3 cords.  I kind of check my dryness throughout the year.  This time of year I bring in enough wood, after I stuff the stove,  for the next load to let it burn off any residual  moisture.  The wood I bring in is what I usually check, I split and check the center.  So it has usually been in about 24 hours, I don’t know if that is long enough to heat it up though.
> 
> Maybe the cat is just settling in, if that’s all then it’s cut my burn time back significantly.  Last night I put a 2/3 load of mostly oak/ some birch at 7 and this morning at 6 it is just active and wood is almost gone.  At least it stayed in active throughout the night this go round. Last year that would be an easy 20 +hr burn at these temps.  Now I’m struggling to get 12 hours,  if I set it low it snuffs out, if I put it at med-low it burns out in 11 hrs.  Maybe this is normal, but seems like most bk’s can coast to 20+ hours easy.  Ok, feel like I’m ranting here.
> 
> I think I may take the cat out and make sure it’s not plugged or there is buildup behind it.  I may just order another for a backup, I was thinking of going ceramic for giggles.  The  Midwest store sells them with the expansion gasket on them so I should be able to pop it right in?  I suppose I should buy some 2” expansion gasket anyway, how much does it take to wrap a cat?
> 
> Also, I love bacon ground with my venison!!  That is my shed hunting partner, she loves the stove!!
> 
> Thanks to everyone for helping me out I appreciate it a lot!



Go outside during the long burn while the meter indicates active and if the chimney is not smoking then the cat is working. Is your house overheating? The stove is just a fuel tank to feed the cat. If your fuel is dry but not very dense then it’s hard to pack enough fuel in for a 24 hour burn. It takes tightly loaded large splits.


----------



## Alpine1

Large splits do make a difference in burn times when “riding the hole”. I burn mostly Norway spruce, but with big chunks and some tetris skills I can get 24 hrs out of a full load. Note that with 5 or 6 loaded N/S splits my Ashford is filled to the gills.


----------



## stoveliker

I have been puzzled about the occasional remarks about the effect of the split size.

IF the firebox is a fuel tank, then the split size should *not* matter - it would only matter to the effect that they have on the "filling fraction" of the firebox. I.e. how much airgaps remain filling with large splits (fewer but larger gaps) versus smaller splits (more but smaller gaps).

The burn rate of a large split should *not* matter because the burn rate is governed by the thermostat: how much heat is produced is what determines the air flow. Meaning that for large splits the rate at which the burn- (or smolder)-front progresses into the wood will be larger because the gases produced are being produced at less surface area, while for smaller splits that burn-front progression will be smaller if more surface area is smoldering simultaneously.

I've been wondering about this for a bit - I can split large and have it dry longer. Or I can split small and have it dry quicker. As long as I get the same number of pounds of wood in the firebox it won't make a difference in burn time.

The large split ->longer burn time DOES make sense for non-Tstat (and non-cat?) stoves where controlling the burn rate is harder. Having less surface area accessible to combustion in the firebox will slow the burn, making it longer. But the Tstat in our BKs overrules all that. 

The Tstat sets the "pounds per hour weight loss" rate (b/c each pound gives off a certain amount of heat when running at a certain efficiency), and it does not give a chit about the physical shape of that fuel...

So, is your experience truly that large split give you a longer burn time *at the same Tstat setting*?? If so, can some of the wizards here explain to me what the mechanism is there? Because to me it does not add up.


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> I've been wondering about this for a bit - I can split large and have it dry longer. Or I can split small and have it dry quicker. As long as I get the same number of pounds of wood in the firebox it won't make a difference in burn time.


You're entirely correct, and that here is exactly the point. You can weigh it out if you want, but with smaller splits the sum of the air gaps is definitively larger than with large splits. It may not look like it, but it it is.
I always notice that when I bring firewood in. I have a plastic bucket for that, which holds roughly the amount that goes into one stove load. With bigger splits, the bucket is noticeably heavier than with small ones.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> I have been puzzled about the occasional remarks about the effect of the split size.
> 
> IF the firebox is a fuel tank, then the split size should *not* matter - it would only matter to the effect that they have on the "filling fraction" of the firebox. I.e. how much airgaps remain filling with large splits (fewer but larger gaps) versus smaller splits (more but smaller gaps).
> 
> The burn rate of a large split should *not* matter because the burn rate is governed by the thermostat: how much heat is produced is what determines the air flow. Meaning that for large splits the rate at which the burn- (or smolder)-front progresses into the wood will be larger because the gases produced are being produced at less surface area, while for smaller splits that burn-front progression will be smaller if more surface area is smoldering simultaneously.
> 
> I've been wondering about this for a bit - I can split large and have it dry longer. Or I can split small and have it dry quicker. As long as I get the same number of pounds of wood in the firebox it won't make a difference in burn time.
> 
> The large split ->longer burn time DOES make sense for non-Tstat (and non-cat?) stoves where controlling the burn rate is harder. Having less surface area accessible to combustion in the firebox will slow the burn, making it longer. But the Tstat in our BKs overrules all that.
> 
> The Tstat sets the "pounds per hour weight loss" rate (b/c each pound gives off a certain amount of heat when running at a certain efficiency), and it does not give a chit about the physical shape of that fuel...
> 
> So, is your experience truly that large split give you a longer burn time *at the same Tstat setting*?? If so, can some of the wizards here explain to me what the mechanism is there? Because to me it does not add up.



My thoughts...  though maybe I'm nuts!

In addition to the lbs per fuel charge being higher without the air gaps, the other big reason is surface area. Wood gasses out from all surfaces and there's a lot more surface with small splits. Isn't that why we grind coffee beans?

Imagine  filling the firebox with kindling stacked to allow each split to be exposed to firebox air, the mixture becomes very fuel rich from all of the rapid outgassing. The cat does its best to combust it all with low oxygen levels since the thermostat will quickly shut down but remember, the stat doesn't ever close. The hole in the intake flapper passes more or less air depending on the pressure in the fuel tank which will be very low during the rapid outgassing of the kindling load. The same number of lbs of fuel in four splits won't fill the firebox and will be slower to release fuel for slower combustion.

In real life, I have a hard time with just huge splits and need a mixture of some smaller ones to really get a heavy load of fuel in.


----------



## Puposky

Nealm66 said:


> I think something isn’t right. I get 12 -14 with Doug fir and that’s not really a full black screen setting. I thought the ones we purchase come with a ceramic cat?


Mine came with a metal cat


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> Mine came with a metal cat


 After using both, I'm very happy with the ceramic. Not just money savings but useful life and resistance to clogs. I think metal cats mostly help dealers by not cracking, breaking, crumbling so are less likely to generate complaints. I may have had a crack or two in my first ceramic cat but my last couple have provided their full life with no physical degradation.

The good news is that you have a choice.


----------



## Puposky

I think my cat was a bit plugged on the back side as high beam suggested, can’t tell for sure, but got a lot of big puffs of ash as I moved the air thru the cat.  It did perform better last night after blowing it out, it was in the active zone in the morning at the 3:00 position, it had not been active the previous mornings with similar amount and type of wood. Stuffed the stove quite well at 9, if it performs like last year I’ll make it till morning.  I’m optimistic.


----------



## Puposky

Highbeam said:


> After using both, I'm very happy with the ceramic. Not just money savings but useful life and resistance to clogs. I think metal cats mostly help dealers by not cracking, breaking, crumbling so are less likely to generate complaints. I may have had a crack or two in my first ceramic cat but my last couple have provided their full life with no physical degradation.
> 
> The good news is that you have a choice.


I’m going to order a ceramic cat as a backup.  Midwest hearth has some for the princess.  They have the expanding gasket included already on the cat, so I should be good to go??


----------



## Puposky

Highbeam said:


> Go outside during the long burn while the meter indicates active and if the chimney is not smoking then the cat is working. Is your house overheating? The stove is just a fuel tank to feed the cat. If your fuel is dry but not very dense then it’s hard to pack enough fuel in for a 24 hour burn. It takes tightly loaded large splits.


Ok,  reloaded at 9:00 with a full firebox.  It’s 3.25 hours later and here is what’s coming out of my chimney and what the cat looks like.





Chimney




I feel like what is coming out of chimney is steam, maybe.


----------



## begreen

That looks better. The clue was when you mentioned it was a metal cat.


----------



## Highbeam

Puposky said:


> I’m going to order a ceramic cat as a backup.  Midwest hearth has some for the princess.  They have the expanding gasket included already on the cat, so I should be good to go??



I have bought the last few from midwest hearth on amazon. They are the same cat that BK uses, come prewrapped with gasket, are cheap, and super easy to just pop right in. I have a spare cat on the shelf for when my current cat wears out. This is the first time I bought a cat well before needing it but seeing the national supply issues and witnessing some woodstock guys unable to get new cats I don't want to get caught with my pants down.


----------



## bikedennis

Your smoke/steam emission after 3 hours burning looks same as mine. I've been wondering if my cat is working up to snuff.  I really can't tell if it's steam or smoke.  But then I'm a worrier.


----------



## Tron

If one expects the cat to reach end-of-life within a year or so, that probably makes sense. My cat likely has less than 1000h on it by now, so for me it makes little sense to buy a replacement cat now.


----------



## stoveliker

Puposky said:


> Chimney
> 
> View attachment 284592
> 
> 
> I feel like what is coming out of chimney is steam, maybe.


To me this looks like steam. Though I can't truly see far enough away from the cap in this pic. The point is that steam dissolves (like your breath when it's cold). Smoke dilutes. Smoke also is (often, not always...) bluer than steam. 

But the bottomline is that if your cat remains active, it's burning smoke and doing its job.


----------



## Poindexter

For cold starts I lean to smaller splits.  Even with the loading door closed the stove comes up to temperature more quickly so I can engage the combustor more quickly and get to my regulated clean plume in the legal time frame.

For long burns on hot coals I put in the biggest splits I can find, and then fill in the gaps with smalls.

I _think_ I am getting more pounds of fuel in the firebox using the biggest possible splits.  Imagine one enormous piece of wood carefully trimmed with wood working tools to just barely fit through the door and belly flop onto a bed of hot coals.  How much would it weigh?

Someone with more free time than me and a scale to weigh their fuel charges is welcome to take this on.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> My thoughts...  though maybe I'm nuts!
> 
> In addition to the lbs per fuel charge being higher without the air gaps, the other big reason is surface area. Wood gasses out from all surfaces and there's a lot more surface with small splits. Isn't that why we grind coffee beans?
> 
> Imagine  filling the firebox with kindling stacked to allow each split to be exposed to firebox air, the mixture becomes very fuel rich from all of the rapid outgassing. The cat does its best to combust it all with low oxygen levels since the thermostat will quickly shut down but remember, the stat doesn't ever close. The hole in the intake flapper passes more or less air depending on the pressure in the fuel tank which will be very low during the rapid outgassing of the kindling load. The same number of lbs of fuel in four splits won't fill the firebox and will be slower to release fuel for slower combustion.
> 
> In real life, I have a hard time with just huge splits and need a mixture of some smaller ones to really get a heavy load of fuel in.


I am not convinced by this argument. This may hold for the initial (half) hour of a load when easy (light, see oil refining) gases that are/form near the surface come out. But after that initial off gassing is done, the rest of the gases over the lifetime of the wood in the stove are produced by the heat produced in the firebox (wood needs heat to decompose, see gasification - also burning wood is decomposing wood -> gas -> flames). And it is precisely the temperature (needed for gasification) that is controlled by the Tstat.

So yes, "kindling" may provide a bit of a runaway in the first (half hour?), but once that initial episode is over, i.e. for the longest time of a normal stove load burn, it should not matter what the size of the splits is.

... Is my thinking ... And I've been told many a time that I'm nuts.


----------



## stoveliker

Poindexter said:


> For cold starts I lean to smaller splits.  Even with the loading door closed the stove comes up to temperature more quickly so I can engage the combustor more quickly and get to my regulated clean plume in the legal time frame.
> 
> For long burns on hot coals I put in the biggest splits I can find, and then fill in the gaps with smalls.
> 
> I _think_ I am getting more pounds of fuel in the firebox using the biggest possible splits.  Imagine one enormous piece of wood carefully trimmed with wood working tools to just barely fit through the door and belly flop onto a bed of hot coals.  How much would it weigh?
> 
> Someone with more free time than me and a scale to weigh their fuel charges is welcome to take this on.


I agree, small splits -> quick start.
I agree small+big splits -> less gaps. That was my argument: split size does not matter (contrary to common belief), other than thru the volume (better: weight) one can stuff in the box.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> I am not convinced by this argument. This may hold for the initial (half) hour of a load when easy (light, see oil refining) gases that are/form near the surface come out. But after that initial off gassing is done, the rest of the gases over the lifetime of the wood in the stove are produced by the heat produced in the firebox (wood needs heat to decompose, see gasification - also burning wood is decomposing wood -> gas -> flames). And it is precisely the temperature (needed for gasification) that is controlled by the Tstat.
> 
> So yes, "kindling" may provide a bit of a runaway in the first (half hour?), but once that initial episode is over, i.e. for the longest time of a normal stove load burn, it should not matter what the size of the splits is.
> 
> ... Is my thinking ... And I've been told many a time that I'm nuts.


Good news is that you can experiment with this issue. It’s easier to split and stack big as well so time savings at the fuel processing stage.


----------



## Tron

Agreed. I don't even split anything less than 6" or so in diameter...


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> Good news is that you can experiment with this issue. It’s easier to split and stack big as well so time savings at the fuel processing stage.


Yes, I have (split big). However, given this humid summer I've been wondering if that was smart. If things dry about 1" per season, and I have 3 seasons before burning, then I need to not be too big. I have one bay (for '23-'24, s-s-c this spring) of only red oak and black locust 5-6" splits. Wondering whether it will be dry enough, given that I have 3 seasons split red oak (that was dead standing) that is barely 20% now... Splitting smaller would help getting it ready.
My experimental feedback loop is rather long (3 years), so hence me asking here.


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> If things dry about 1" per season


Not sure where you got that from, but to my knowledge wood mostly (!) dries from the cut sides. Meaning the thickness of the round is not that important. Makes sense to me as the fibers are likely to transport most of the water, and they run along the length of the round.


----------



## stoveliker

Tron said:


> Not sure where you got that from, but to my knowledge wood mostly (!) dries from the cut sides. Meaning the thickness of the round is not that important. Makes sense to me as the fibers are likely to transport most of the water, and they run along the length of the round.


True. But (...), split a piece and measure in the middle of the length (not at the cut ends) and take measurements from the outside there to the center (i.e. crossing half of the short axis of the freshly split surface), and you'll see what I mean. Going from the edges in things dry out. I.e. measure along the "post" of the T in the "post reply" button below.

Yes at the end grain it dries out more, but for an 18" split, having a 2" path to the surface across the grain may be easier than having a lower-'resistance' path 9" to the end grain surface.

But this discussion is more "woodshed" than BK. 
My question still remains: what have people experienced in a BK re: small splits versus large splits. 
Any indication there is anything else than "better stuffing" with large splits? (tho for stuffing a volume with spheres there is zero difference between small and large spheres... )


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> My experimental feedback loop is rather long (3 years), so hence me asking here.



But it's not. Just split your current dry wood down and see if it makes a difference. 

This is a BK specific issue due to the thermostat and the catalyst that does not have its own air feed. I'm not sure there are any other cat stoves without an air feed to the cat. Even the woodstocks use either full hybrid or a smaller dedicated air hole for the cat.


----------



## begreen

I would think that a batch of dry skinny splits might overwhelm the cat with smoke from all outgassing rapidly at once.


----------



## kennyp2339

Tonight we are forecasted to have our first freeze - low 29, the princess has been lit and rolling along since early Monday, I now have a decent layer of ash as the base and rolling with 24hr reloads, the house has been stable at 72 deg f, I might burn a little higher tonight but basically my cat probe needle hasnt really drifted below noon, so I'm running solid with no flames in the fire box, and absolutely no smoke out of the stack either.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> But it's not. Just split your current dry wood down and see if it makes a difference.


 you are right. I'll try. Thanks. (bumps head against the wall)


----------



## stoveliker

begreen said:


> I would think that a batch of dry skinny splits might overwhelm the cat with smoke from all outgassing rapidly at once.


in the beginning maybe. But I'm talking about burn times. As long as the cat is active when I walk away (the pre-requisite in any experiment, because otherwise things just go south), the Tstat should cut the air to regulate the heat output. Of course doing anything that suffocates the cat won't work, but that's not what I'm asking about. 
3-4" splits or 6-8" splits...


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> in the beginning maybe. But I'm talking about burn times. As long as the cat is active when I walk away (the pre-requisite in any experiment, because otherwise things just go south), the Tstat should cut the air to regulate the heat output. Of course doing anything that suffocates the cat won't work, but that's not what I'm asking about.
> 3-4" splits or 6-8" splits...



You'll need to control for weight too. So 40# of 6-8 vs. 40# of 3-4. And then of course a similar outdoor air temp for draft strength, similar heating needs since the thermostat to some extent responds to a house cooling the stove.

I expect the little wood to burn up faster but I do appreciate the experiment.

On edit, maybe control for volume since we all tend to pack the box full for long burn times.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> If one expects the cat to reach end-of-life within a year or so, that probably makes sense. My cat likely has less than 1000h on it by now, so for me it makes little sense to buy a replacement cat now.



Living in MS must be nice. We have a 9 month burning season so I get two seasons per cat (well over the 10,000 hour expected life) so I'm always within a year or so of the next one. It's really no big deal to change these out and it's worth every bit of the price in wood savings for me.


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

So I have a question about Blaze King stoves (or perhaps about all the other stoves on the market) and this seemed like a good place to post it.  I did search on this figuring it had beed discussed somewhere but didnt find an answer.

So I was looking at the 24 to 30 hour specified potential burn time for BK stoves when all the other brands on the market of similar size, weight, material, and technology specify 8 to 12.  Most use catalysts.  They all have a low air setting (yes BK adds a t-stat).  

So I did some math.  A firebox of a certain volume can hold a % of that in wood that has an energy density and corresponds to a number of BTUs of heat for a full load.  Of that # of BTUs the EPA gives efficiency numbers (HHV) on how much of that energy gets released, and they give low burn rate numbers on how low a stove can burn before it ceases to function well.  From the load BTUs, the efficiency, and the low burn rate a potential burn time can be computed.  

So I did that for a few stoves in the 3 cuft firebox size - BK and another brand.  I got times close to 40 hours.  Not exact, but in the ballpark.  So at this point my question changed a little.  It went from "how does BK claim a 30 hour burn when no-one else claims even half that?" to incude "and how come nobody else gets a 30 hour burn time when they have stats at just as low a burn rate and just as big a firebox?


----------



## BKVP

If you place a thermocouple in the firebox, connected to a digital display and manually lower the air input (not always possible depending upon minimum air setting used in testing for certification) to compensate for the unmetered nature of burning cord wood, you can impact burn times.  I've experimented with this in cooperation with another manufacturer and adjustment intervals were nearly every 2 minutes.  At times you'll need to increase air to sustain combustion....Great question by the way.


----------



## BKVP

BKVP said:


> If you place a thermocouple in the firebox, connected to a digital display and manually lower the air input (not always possible depending upon minimum air setting used in testing for certification) to compensate for the unmetered nature of burning cord wood, you can impact burn times.  I've experimented with this in cooperation with another manufacturer and adjustment intervals were nearly every 2 minutes.  At times you'll need to increase air to sustain combustion....Great question by the way.


I should add, emissions reductions of PM 2.5 takes place in chemical conversion at 550F or thermally at 1176 F.  So, "low" can be very different between combustion designs...not always FBV that fixes need for low, longer burn times.  It's like having a Camry with a 50 gallon fuel tank.  It won't get you further than the 30 gallon Camry if you drive 100 mph!


----------



## kennyp2339

Dave_in_ABQ said:


> how does BK claim a 30 hour burn when no-one else claims even half that?" to incude "and how come nobody else gets a 30 hour burn time when they have stats at just as low a burn rate and just as big a firebox?


Great question.. short and simple - alien technology. 
Now the real answer - cat placement in relation to the firebox, stove top and flue collar. 
Princess owner here, I judge my burn times by useable heat coming off the stove top or really a minimum of 280deg f, and my max is 24hrs burn time in that dept, now I've had small coals and a hot ash bed after 36hrs but nothing of useful heat coming off the unit. 
Think of a firebox as a fuel tank, load it up with 40 lbs of oak or large splits of doug fir, once the fire is established and the cat probe is showing the cat is warmed up and operating in the normal range start the timer of the burn, if is go low and slow, that means no flames in the fire box, very dirty solid black glass, maybe occasional embers flaring or glowing I will get 20-24 hrs a load, this serves me well when temps are in the lower 30's at night and the day recovers to mid 40's or warmer. 
As is gets colder out I adjust my t-stat air control, this makes the fire burn hotter, the hotter the fire more flames ect.. my max burn in the depths of winter (temps low teens / upper single digits at night and teens during the day) running the blower will average 10-12hrs per full load, more or less the same (maybe slightly better burns then other 3cu ft stoves on the market, but pretty close to others) this results in constant flames in the firebox, a hot cat to the burn clean, stove top temp of 600 ball park and a warm house. 
What makes the BK's stand out is the flexibility and consistency on desired outputs by leaning and adjusting your t-stat. 
Now this isnt a fix all brand either, there are many other great stoves out on the market, if you live in a house that is poorly sealed, or bad insulation and you need to be ripping 24/7 (+65btu hr) then I would say you would be a little disappointed with the stove, but for someone with average 2x4 construction, average winter temps from the lower teens through 50's then this is the brand. You can also buy the biggest king stove and fool the house, but that stove requires some space and an 8" venting system which can be costly for some.


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

kennyp2339 said:


> if is go low and slow, that means no flames in the fire box, very dirty solid black glass, maybe occasional embers flaring or glowing I will get 20-24 hrs a load, this serves me well when temps are in the lower 30's at night and the day recovers to mid 40's or warmer.
> As is gets colder out I adjust my t-stat air control, this makes the fire burn hotter, the hotter the fire more flames ect.. my max burn in the depths of winter (temps low teens / upper single digits at night and teens during the day) running the blower will average 10-12hrs per full load, more or less the same (maybe slightly better burns then other 3cu ft stoves on the market, but pretty close to others) this results in constant flames in the firebox, a hot cat to the burn clean, stove top temp of 600 ball park and a warm house.




Thanks KennyP; I get it now.  The extreme slow is a smouldering, dirty burn.  How well does the cat deal with that?

 tech is a good answer too.


----------



## stoveliker

The low and slow is where the BK does best imo.


----------



## Highbeam

Dave_in_ABQ said:


> Thanks KennyP; I get it now.  The extreme slow is a smouldering, dirty burn.  How well does the cat deal with that?
> 
> tech is a good answer too.



It’s a smoldering dirty burn in the firebox but very high efficiency and very low emissions after the cat eats that dirty smoke for fuel. This low and slow is when the catalyst does the best job.


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

Makes sense Highbeam.  Just high enough to keep the cat lit


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

Still dont see why stove brand X with a cat doesnt claim a similar burn time.  Or do they just not consider that slow a burn?


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

placing the cat at a hot spot so it works at the slkwest burn?


----------



## stoveliker

No, it's the combi.of cat and Tstat. Wood fires always fluctuate. Set it at your lowest speed (longest burn), things settle, move, and suddenly your speed goes up. That needs to be damped.down to reach the longest burn. Without a Tstat cutting the air, you can't do that, and your total burn time decreases.

When things get hotter, draft increases, and it gets even hotter. Tstats control that. Also preventing runaways, overfiring.

So the best comparison would be to compare to another stove with a Tstat (not that common) AND a cat. I don't know of one, but I vaguely remember having read that at least one other exists. Someone more knowledgeable will confirm or tell me I'm full of it .


----------



## JKanor

Hello everyone, just getting caught up on this year's thread. On page 6 of 20 lol. Anyway, it's finally in the mid 30s here in NE PA and the sound of the heat pump running is getting me itchy to light up the Princess. Its been match ready since early April. Supposed to have a few nights in the 20s this week. Anyway I'll start with 2 questions.

1 - on my indoor pipe, I've been using single wall since I put in the princess 3 years ago. I have 2 straight sections and 2 - 45ish adjustable elbows with 18 feet of blanket insulated double wall above the T. I was going to replace the inside pipe put of precaution this year, although it's in good shape with no rust. Is it worth it performance wise to try and get a double wall stainless to fit? Draft wise the stove runs good wit a low burn around 145-2 o'clock on the Stat on hardwood. 

2 - maybe this was covered, but is Ashford still on the forum? I used to enjoy is scientific approach to stuff and his writings. If he isnt around anymore, I hope all is well.


----------



## Highbeam

Dave_in_ABQ said:


> Still dont see why stove brand X with a cat doesnt claim a similar burn time.  Or do they just not consider that slow a burn?



There are other cat stoves that have been more efficient, cleaner, better looking, but the only one that comes close to the BK for long burn times is the Woodstock IS.

It seems that the other brands don’t think that users would appreciate the ability to burn wood slowly, quickly, or anything in between.

I don’t think anybody offers a thermostat for actual output level control other than BK on stoves. The wood furnace and boiler guys do it electronically.

Lots of new cat stoves coming out recently with some smart manufacturers. Some even promise similar long burn times at low output but so far haven’t delivered. I think it would be great if there were some other similar performers.


----------



## Highbeam

JKanor said:


> Hello everyone, just getting caught up on this year's thread. On page 6 of 20 lol. Anyway, it's finally in the mid 30s here in NE PA and the sound of the heat pump running is getting me itchy to light up the Princess. Its been match ready since early April. Supposed to have a few nights in the 20s this week. Anyway I'll start with 2 questions.
> 
> 1 - on my indoor pipe, I've been using single wall since I put in the princess 3 years ago. I have 2 straight sections and 2 - 45ish adjustable elbows with 18 feet of blanket insulated double wall above the T. I was going to replace the inside pipe put of precaution this year, although it's in good shape with no rust. Is it worth it performance wise to try and get a double wall stainless to fit? Draft wise the stove runs good wit a low burn around 145-2 o'clock on the Stat on hardwood.
> 
> 2 - maybe this was covered, but is Ashford still on the forum? I used to enjoy is scientific approach to stuff and his writings. If he isnt around anymore, I hope all is well.


Ashful stopped by recently but has been MIA for a long time.


----------



## JKanor

Highbeam said:


> Ashful stopped by recently but has been MIA for a long time.


Good to hear he's all good, that was my main concern.


----------



## Dave_in_ABQ

BKs coil spring is unique.  
Realistically, having a stove that makes 8-10 hours or so is important so i can sleep 8 hours.  if it was hot enough cook coffee ☕ 1st thing in the am, that would be deluxe.  id also like it to run low enough to be useful when its 40F outside.  replace the function of the furnace as thats when i notice it.  24 hours, im divided between convenience and deciding if or what kind of fire is warranted.


----------



## AndrewU

Am I correct in remembering that the cat cannot be removed without replacing the gasket?


----------



## Alpine1

AndrewU said:


> Am I correct in remembering that the cat cannot be removed without replacing the gasket?


Yep, you must put in a new gasket every time you pull out the cat. Mine crumbled to dust when I pulled the cat out in order to clean it… I’ll never do that again: pull the cat out only if you want to replace it with a new one.


----------



## Todd

stoveliker said:


> No, it's the combi.of cat and Tstat. Wood fires always fluctuate. Set it at your lowest speed (longest burn), things settle, move, and suddenly your speed goes up. That needs to be damped.down to reach the longest burn. Without a Tstat cutting the air, you can't do that, and your total burn time decreases.
> 
> When things get hotter, draft increases, and it gets even hotter. Tstats control that. Also preventing runaways, overfiring.
> 
> So the best comparison would be to compare to another stove with a Tstat (not that common) AND a cat. I don't know of one, but I vaguely remember having read that at least one other exists. Someone more knowledgeable will confirm or tell me I'm full of it .


VC stoves have the cat and tstat combo but I bet the down draft design probably requires a little more air to burn properly thus reducing burn times. Also the new Jotul F500 has a tstat for it’s secondary air only. You would think more non cat stove manufactures would do this for the secondary air systems to keep them a bit more controllable. I believe PE is the only one?


----------



## ohlongarm

Got down to low thirties , at noon yesterday , I put 6 large pieces of 6 year old white ash in the stove, the wood was so hard it looked petrified. I know BKVP wouldn't approve of a partial load. My catalyst combustor 9 hours later was still at 1600 degrees. I threw 3 pieces of ash in at 9PM, it's 10AM now and the cat is still at 800 degrees, now I believe that's superior performance any day of the week, love my king, . PS I'm only running 12 feet of pipe from stove top to chimney cap. This will be my fourth season with the parlor. Between the 5th hour of the first burn and the ninth the combustors intensity increased in color, and I had quite a few aurora borealis type things dancing around. Chris am I okay?


----------



## stoveliker

I'm not Chris, but other than the needless opening (b/c of partial loads, more refilling), it seems to run okay to me. 
Looking forward to some cold to start mine as well...


----------



## Highbeam

Todd said:


> VC stoves have the cat and tstat combo but I bet the down draft design probably requires a little more air to burn properly thus reducing burn times. Also the new Jotul F500 has a tstat for it’s secondary air only. You would think more non cat stove manufactures would do this for the secondary air systems to keep them a bit more controllable. I believe PE is the only one?


PE doesn’t have a tstat for secondary air. The two most popular PE stove models use a barometric damper to feed the secondary air which is better than a hole like the other brands. Woodstock uses a bimetallic coil stat to regulate secondary air feed on at least some of their hybrid models. 

Efficiency and emissions seems to be the goal for the other companies trying thermostatic controls.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Living in MS must be nice.


It is. I've just started burning part-time as it dipped into the 50's in the morning.
On the other hand, cutting up a huge pine that fell during a storm in the midst of summer is very, very exhausting.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> It is. I've just started burning part-time as it dipped into the 50's in the morning.
> On the other hand, cutting up a huge pine that fell during a storm in the midst of summer is very, very exhausting.



I wasn't being sarcastic, there are lots of good reasons to move south. Especially if you can still get cool enough to burn. We're not much colder right now but it doesn't warm up much during the day. Oh and it rains, it's pouring down rain and 54 right now. Will soon be dark at 4 pm. It's going to rain every day for the whole 10 day forecast. and dark. And muddy. and rain.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> I wasn't being sarcastic, there are lots of good reasons to move south. Especially if you can still get cool enough to burn. We're not much colder right now but it doesn't warm up much during the day. Oh and it rains, it's pouring down rain and 54 right now. Will soon be dark at 4 pm. It's going to rain every day for the whole 10 day forecast. and dark. And muddy. and rain.


Well, the northwest is known for its not-so-cold but rainy winters. But you have beautiful summers up there.


----------



## Nealm66

Good weather for ducks


----------



## estepracing

Hey, I have a question about how to get my  combuster warrantied. We have only had our stove for 4 years and I was thinking it had a 10 year warranty, and it for sure is bad and this is our main source of heat so I need to get it taken care of before it gets any colder. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bikedennis

I was told that you must send in the warranty card that comes with the stove to BK.


----------



## Highbeam

estepracing said:


> Hey, I have a question about how to get my  combuster warrantied. We have only had our stove for 4 years and I was thinking it had a 10 year warranty, and it for sure is bad and this is our main source of heat so I need to get it taken care of before it gets any colder. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



I would be thrilled to get 4 years! The warranty process starts with your dealer.


----------



## begreen

Highbeam said:


> PE doesn’t have a tstat for secondary air. The two most popular PE stove models use a barometric damper to feed the secondary air which is better than a hole like the other brands. .


Correct, though the EBT is also used in the Neo 2.5.


----------



## estepracing

Highbeam said:


> I would be thrilled to get 4 years! The warranty process starts with your dealer.


So how long should I expect them to last with it being our main source of heat and the next big debatable topic is should I get ceramic or Steel.


----------



## ratsrepus

three years if your  lucky. if you burn 24-7.   I replace mine after two season.   as far as steel vs ceramic?   hang on let me get a chair and a beer


----------



## estepracing

ratsrepus said:


> three years if your  lucky. if you burn 24-7.   I replace mine after two season.   as far as steel vs ceramic?   hang on let me get a chair and a beer


That would make sense that you say 3 years, because last year was a bit iffy with it. I figured the steel versus ceramic conversation could go on for quite a while.


----------



## Tron

In short, there's no measurable difference between ceramic and steel. The former is a bit cheaper, though.
As for how long they last, I think around 10k hours probably comes close. So it depends on how much you use it.


----------



## JKanor

estepracing said:


> So how long should I expect them to last with it being our main source of heat and the next big debatable topic is should I get ceramic or Steel.


I bought my Princess used in 2018 and it came with a new ceramic cat, it worked as advertised. It also took the brunt of my new stove mistakes (overheated it a time or two and opened the door a few times with the bypass closed). Ended up having some scaling and crumbling after 2 years.

Last year I bought a new steel cat for it (midwest was back ordered on ceramics). It lights off fast and works as well as the ceramic with no ash build up (remember it's a princess, the other 30 boxes seem to get more ash).

With that said, after reading a ton on the steel vs ceramic, I ordered a new ceramic as well as soon as they were in stock. So that sits on the shelf waiting. Might even swap them while the steel is good to try and see a difference. 

@Highbeam  keeps good records on his cats and uses them up quick. He posted notes a while ago that showed the steel ones have a little less life in them than the ceramics, and the ceramic is cheaper.


----------



## Highbeam

JKanor said:


> I bought my Princess used in 2018 and it came with a new ceramic cat, it worked as advertised. It also took the brunt of my new stove mistakes (overheated it a time or two and opened the door a few times with the bypass closed). Ended up having some scaling and crumbling after 2 years.
> 
> Last year I bought a new steel cat for it (midwest was back ordered on ceramics). It lights off fast and works as well as the ceramic with no ash build up (remember it's a princess, the other 30 boxes seem to get more ash).
> 
> With that said, after reading a ton on the steel vs ceramic, I ordered a new ceramic as well as soon as they were in stock. So that sits on the shelf waiting. Might even swap them while the steel is good to try and see a difference.
> 
> @Highbeam  keeps good records on his cats and uses them up quick. He posted notes a while ago that showed the steel ones have a little less life in them than the ceramics, and the ceramic is cheaper.



I only consumed a single steel cat and it died significantly earlier than the ceramics before and after it. I wait until they're really dead before swapping them complete with dripping tar on my chimney flashing because I hate to waste things. Before condemning all steel cats to a short life I would want more data points. 

The only benefit of steel cats I can see is less complaining from owners that see a crack or chip in their ceramic cat and don't realize that some of that is acceptable. The earlier light off advantage while perhaps something measurable in a laboratory is not even noticeable in real life.


----------



## JKanor

Highbeam said:


> I only consumed a single steel cat and it died significantly earlier than the ceramics before and after it. I wait until they're really dead before swapping them complete with dripping tar on my chimney flashing because I hate to waste things. Before condemning all steel cats to a short life I would want more data points.
> 
> The only benefit of steel cats I can see is less complaining from owners that see a crack or chip in their ceramic cat and don't realize that some of that is acceptable. The earlier light off advantage while perhaps something measurable in a laboratory is not even noticeable in real life.


I noticed the quicker light off when using a digital thermocouple behind the cat, when the degrees start flying like it hit a 2 stroke power band. On an analog, I couldn't tell.


----------



## kennyp2339

I burn 24/7 from the end of October to the beginning of May, give our take a couple weeks. So figure a solid 6 months, princess was installed winter of 2014 so it’s going on it’s 8th season, I’m on 3rd cat, second season - I had an issue with an over performing draft that has thankfully been dialed within spec, this cat should last an additional 2 more seasons, I’ve used both ceramic and steel, stove came with a steel one, then replaced with a ceramic and now running a steel. Personally I’m not that refined to tell you which is better cause there both the same in my book. Steel lights of slightly quicker, cermaic can crack due to thermal shock, but is less likely to clog if you have fly ash issues. 
It’s kind of mute in my book, although I have a new cat in standby and that’s ceramic.


----------



## Highbeam

JKanor said:


> I noticed the quicker light off when using a digital thermocouple behind the cat, when the degrees start flying like it hit a 2 stroke power band. On an analog, I couldn't tell.



This is the frog in hot water issue. Any new cat will be quicker to light off than an old cat. Not many of us get the chance to compare new cats of different materials back to back.


----------



## estepracing

Thanks for all the advice, I think I'll stick with my ceramic for now. Has anyone ever tried cleaning the catalyst with a soda blaster or anything for that matter. Just for future reference, I don't want to be recreating the wheel.


----------



## Dieselhead

Racked some for the first fire of the year tonite


----------



## stoveliker

estepracing said:


> Thanks for all the advice, I think I'll stick with my ceramic for now. Has anyone ever tried cleaning the catalyst with a soda blaster or anything for that matter. Just for future reference, I don't want to be recreating the wheel.



If you (soda) blast, you can immediately put your cat in the trash bin.

The cat works because of atomic scale precious metals on a thin coating of what I think will be alumina. Blasting will remove both, leading to a dead metal or ceramic substrate.


----------



## Nealm66

Dieselhead said:


> Racked some for the first fire of the year tonite
> 
> View attachment 284842
> View attachment 284843


I’ve been thinking about something like that. We can get pallets for free around here and would be pretty sweet to grab a pallet at a time and have a bay in the garage for it


----------



## Alpine1

estepracing said:


> Thanks for all the advice, I think I'll stick with my ceramic for now. Has anyone ever tried cleaning the catalyst with a soda blaster or anything for that matter. Just for future reference, I don't want to be recreating the wheel.


You can try to boil it in distilled water and white vinegar. Someone (@Highbeam ?) did it two or three years ago and posted his results. IIRC you can squeeze an extra couple of weeks of use out of a nearly dead  catalyst.


----------



## rdust

First fire of the season in the Princess tonight.  Converted to NG with a high efficiency furnace this year so I’ve been slacking.  Nice to feel the stove heat tonight! 

Dog quickly found his place.


----------



## clancey

That's a beautiful stove set up and how cute that doggy clancey


----------



## Poindexter

@estepracing ,  In general we look for 10-12-14k hours of active time out of a combustor.  I am an outlier at the low end averaging about 8k active hours, and one or two users here have posted 16k active hour lifespans.


----------



## JKanor

Highbeam said:


> This is the frog in hot water issue. Any new cat will be quicker to light off than an old cat. Not many of us get the chance to compare new cats of different materials back to back.


I should've been more clear. I meant quicker light off when pushing the low end limits of bypass engagement. Like if it's closed too early the thermocouple wouldn't show take off and ramp up. The steel seems to take off and ramp up around 480-490* where the ceramic seemed to be in the 570-580* range. Before that it would climb steady, Like a 2 stroke lol.


----------



## weatherguy

rdust said:


> First fire of the season in the Princess tonight.  Converted to NG with a high efficiency furnace this year so I’ve been slacking.  Nice to feel the stove heat tonight!
> 
> Dog quickly found his place.
> 
> View attachment 284849


I see more than the dog warming up next to the fire


----------



## Poindexter

JKanor said:


> I should've been more clear. I meant quicker light off when pushing the low end limits of bypass engagement. Like if it's closed too early the thermocouple wouldn't show take off and ramp up. The steel seems to take off and ramp up around 480-490* where the ceramic seemed to be in the 570-580* range. Before that it would climb steady, Like a 2 stroke lol.


From what I have read here the metal cats can be engaged "earlier" than the ceramics.  As a regulated burner ( I am in an EPA non-attainment area for air quality) I have a limited amount of time to get from cold stove to engaged combustor and clean plume, so it _seems_ like sticking with a metal cat is the way to go for me.  My local BK dealer really knows their stuff, I am confident if I could get to clean plume quicker with the whatever latest tech from BK they would be calling me.

If I wasn't regulated I would pay a LOT more attention to the ceramic cat discussion.  Since I am a regulated burner and can barely reach the legal limit with a metal cat and dry wood I am sticking with what works for me.  Your data point that a metal cat can light off about 100 degrees cooler than ceramic supports my position.  There are plenty of folks here that prefer ceramic cats for sure.


----------



## JKanor

Poindexter said:


> From what I have read here the metal cats can be engaged "earlier" than the ceramics.  As a regulated burner ( I am in an EPA non-attainment area for air quality) I have a limited amount of time to get from cold stove to engaged combustor and clean plume, so it _seems_ like sticking with a metal cat is the way to go for me.  My local BK dealer really knows their stuff, I am confident if I could get to clean plume quicker with the whatever latest tech from BK they would be calling me.
> 
> If I wasn't regulated I would pay a LOT more attention to the ceramic cat discussion.  Since I am a regulated burner and can barely reach the legal limit with a metal cat and dry wood I am sticking with what works for me.  Your data point that a metal cat can light off about 100 degrees cooler than ceramic supports my position.  There are plenty of folks here that prefer ceramic cats for sure.


I feel for you guys that are regulated like that. We have no regulation here and the only reason for playing with the steel cat is because when I needed one last year, the ceramics were on backorder. At least it gives something to pay attention to, since these stoves are so good they're kind of boring. Even in our coldest weather I'm on a 20-24hr reload routine.


----------



## Highbeam

estepracing said:


> Thanks for all the advice, I think I'll stick with my ceramic for now. Has anyone ever tried cleaning the catalyst with a soda blaster or anything for that matter. Just for future reference, I don't want to be recreating the wheel.



You’re no even allowed to use high pressure air, much less an abrasive. You’ll blow the catalyst off.

There is a vinegar boil procedure that does work to remove some of the “stuff” that bakes on to the catalyst and covers the precious metals so that they are unavailable for chemical reaction with smoke. I did it once to revive a dead cat for a couple months of bonus extra life. It works but the juice ain’t worth the squeeze. You need a new 7$ gasket, a vat of boiling vinegar, a jug of distilled rinse water, a pot to do it in, an angry wife from stinking the house up, time to let your stove go cold, and hours of your personal time. All of this just to get a couple of extra marginal months when a new cat is only about 200$ and lasts at least 18 months. 

Rather than even worry about cat maintenance (other than clearing possible ash cloggage), just plan on popping in a new fresh one. 

The vinegar boil method is better than nothing if you can’t get a new cat due to supply issues or something.


----------



## Highbeam

Alpine1 said:


> You can try to boil it in distilled water and white vinegar. Someone (@Highbeam ?) did it two or three years ago and posted his results. IIRC you can squeeze an extra couple of weeks of use out of a nearly dead  catalyst.


I thought it was months of extra marginal life but I know it wasn’t worth it. You can search under my username for “threads by” to find it. I provided lots of photos and documented the whole process.


----------



## rdust

weatherguy said:


> I see more than the dog warming up next to the fire



Yep, my 9 yo daughter.


----------



## rdust

Highbeam said:


> I thought it was months of extra marginal life but I know it wasn’t worth it. You can search under my username for “threads by” to find it. I provided lots of photos and documented the whole process.



I’ve done it once, wasn’t worth the hassle here either.  

I think I remember reading some of the WS guys cleaning them yearly, by spraying the vinegar on then rinsing it off.  Not dealing with the boiling part.


----------



## Highbeam

rdust said:


> I’ve done it once, wasn’t worth the hassle here either.
> 
> I think I remember reading some of the WS guys cleaning them yearly, by spraying the vinegar on then rinsing it off.  Not dealing with the boiling part.


Those Woodstock guys have the pleasure of not needing a new cat gasket each time they want to remove their cats for any reason. Some of them are stuck with steel cats too and they really seem to clog up for some models.


----------



## kennyp2339

Up and down temps this week, upper 50's during the day, 30's at night, I'm burning big maple splits, like I can only fit 3 at a time big, it works perfectly with keeping a constant low level warmth in the house, the stability of this stove is great.


----------



## Nelson

Did my clean out about a month ago. I cleaned out about 2 cups of dry flaky creosote in the section highlighted in the picture. This section Ts into a straight ~20ft section that goes out of the roof (this section is insulated). In the 20 ft straight section, I cleaned out easily less than a cup of dry flaky creosote. This is my first clean out with this set up and I was expecting it to be the opposite (more creosote in the 20ft section) and it's got me puzzled. No issues with my burns - i'm easily getting 20-24 hour burns (with an active cat the entire time) and performance has exceeded my expectations overall. Just curious about the build up on the lower section of pipe (which is double wall).

EDIT: The section in the picture was a 90 degree bend all last year - I just replaced with 2-45s after I did the clean out


----------



## John Galt

Nelson said:


> Did my clean out about a month ago. I cleaned out about 2 cups of dry flaky creosote in the section highlighted in the picture. This section Ts into a straight ~20ft section that goes out of the roof (this section is insulated). In the 20 ft straight section, I cleaned out easily less than a cup of dry flaky creosote. This is my first clean out with this set up and I was expecting it to be the opposite (more creosote in the 20ft section) and it's got me puzzled. No issues with my burns - i'm easily getting 20-24 hour burns (with an active cat the entire time) and performance has exceeded my expectations overall. Just curious about the build up on the lower section of pipe (which is double wall).
> 
> EDIT: The section in the picture was a 90 degree bend all last year - I just replaced with 2-45s after I did the clean out
> 
> View attachment 285028


That should eliminate all of that build up. My barn stove was set up like that originally, but the horizontal was around six feet, it dripped creosote.


----------



## bikedennis

Is it better to keep bypass  closed when adding wood?  Manual states  "you may want to open bypass" to keep smoke puffing to minimum. My stove draws very good so I see no reason to open it.  Correct?


----------



## JKanor

bikedennis said:


> Is it better to keep bypass  closed when adding wood?  Manual states  "you may want to open bypass" to keep smoke puffing to minimum. My stove draws very good so I see no reason to open it.  Correct?


You always want to open it before you open the door. You don't want the cool air of the room to thermal shock the catalyst.


----------



## bikedennis

JKanor said:


> You always want to open it before you open the door. You don't want the cool air of the room to thermal shock the catalyst.


Yes, I know that but why even open it at all if I don't have a smoke problem?


----------



## stoveliker

Because you can cool down the cat too fast, resulting in the surface (that does the cat job) cracking and deteriorating.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Not sure which stove you have, but my Princess manual specifically says to open the bypass before opening the loading door. As mentioned already, its to prevent thermal shock to your cat.


----------



## bikedennis

stoveliker said:


> Because you can cool down the cat too fast, resulting in the surface (that does the cat job) cracking and deteriorating.


Not if you don't open it.  Am I missing something here? Again manual says "may wish to open bypass". Sounds like it's better to keep closed if smoke is not a problem.


----------



## stoveliker

I don't know how you would add wood without opening it (the stove door)...?


----------



## bikedennis

talking about the bypass here


----------



## stoveliker

you stated "Is it better to keep bypass closed when adding wood?"
The answer is no, because when you open the stove door to add wood, all (colder) air flows thru a hot cat which might damage it.


----------



## Alpine1

With my set up, if I don’t open the by-pass, set the t-stat to max and leave the door closed for at least 5 minutes… smoke spillage is guaranteed


----------



## Highbeam

Also, if your is strong enough to keep smoke from rolling out of the open loading door with the bypass closed then you are probably way over spec. You can have too much draft. 

Not only must you open the bypass before opening the loading door but you should open the bypass a few minutes early if the cat is really hot in an effort to cool the cat a bit. Take care of your cat so that takes care of you.


----------



## Nealm66

Just to help, when you open the bypass, you are then bypassing the cat. If you don’t open the bypass, you’re exposing it to cool temperatures and causing harm and should be putting smoke in the room


----------



## TheElementalCashew

First year burning with a BK. It’s a way nicer/easier stove than my old VC Defiant Encore, and I’m still trying to get used to being able to safely load up the stove completely with wood.


----------



## ohlongarm

TheElementalCashew said:


> First year burning with a BK. It’s a way nicer/easier stove than my old VC Defiant Encore, and I’m still trying to get used to being able to safely load up the stove completely with wood.
> 
> View attachment 285084
> View attachment 285085


Great looking parlor , mine has the silver legs fifth year burning mine 24/ 7 no issues.


----------



## Diabel

TheElementalCashew said:


> First year burning with a BK. It’s a way nicer/easier stove than my old VC Defiant Encore, and I’m still trying to get used to being able to safely load up the stove completely with wood.
> 
> View attachment 285084
> View attachment 285085


Nice set up.

Both of my stoves are nicely dialed in. Both work very similarly with exception of burn times due to  fuel talk size.


----------



## Nealm66

TheElementalCashew said:


> First year burning with a BK. It’s a way nicer/easier stove than my old VC Defiant Encore, and I’m still trying to get used to being able to safely load up the stove completely with wood.
> 
> View attachment 285084
> View attachment 285085


It looks really good. Don’t be afraid to stuff it full. It does what it needs to. Just set the dial. Once you get it figured out, I’d put a mark on it for a reference.


----------



## kennyp2339

TheElementalCashew said:


> First year burning with a BK. It’s a way nicer/easier stove than my old VC Defiant Encore, and I’m still trying to get used to being able to safely load up the stove completely with wood.


Its like a fine wine, gets better with time, the more you use it, the better it is, the hardest thing about these stoves is letting go and let them do its own things. Confidence is hard to build before you trust something, but let that glass get black and get that cat glowing orange, the rest will fall into place.


----------



## Dieselhead

bikedennis said:


> Is it better to keep bypass  closed when adding wood?  Manual states  "you may want to open bypass" to keep smoke puffing to minimum. My stove draws very good so I see no reason to open it.  Correct?


Only if you like to spend money on replacing your cat prematurely.


----------



## estepracing

I replaced the cat this week I replaced the combustor this week, and I must say what a difference it makes. I went with the ceramic, the old one was pretty matted over and plugged up when I took it out. Last winter when I had some problems with the old one I took it out cleaned it all up really well put a new gasket on and reinstalled it, apparently it just needed replaced.


----------



## Larch

Hello everyone,  I'm  new to this forum hopefully  this is in the right place, it said everything  blaze king.I've been  burning wood for full-time heating for 30 years total and 14 years in current home setup  with a pacific energy alderlea T5 with good results  except for burn times on cold days, now that situations have changed( kids grew up and wife decided to go back to  work) and no one will be home during the coldest days  to  reload the stove we decided to upgrade.  Local dealer talked me into the sirocco 30.2. With a one month free trial exchange because my chimney setup is questionable for this stove. The chimney goes up 6 feet  from top of stove thru wall using 2 45° elbows(single wall), then of course  goes to the  insulated stainless steel setup for another 20 feet, the setup is with a 7" pipe from  stove top all the way. I have zero draw problems resulting in  smoke spillage at any point , not starting, loading lowburns, nothing. The problem  I  have is with moisture,  I  am assuming  the bigger pipe makes it to lazy and the steam condenses. I was going to  exchange it and go with  a non cat stove but have decided that this stove will be worth the hassle of replacing the setup  to 6" and building a  insulated  chase for exterior if necessary in the spring. I've been  running the blaze king for about a month and a half now and love it except for the water. Have checked chimney pipe for cleaning  multiple times and is incredibly clean, the moisture I  get out of it is fairly clear, has  not been very cold yet but on the cold mornings around-5 Celsius next to no moisture if any because  warmer faster flue  I'm assuming. Wood is mostly Douglas fir, a little jack pine and larch, I  tested it for moisture content  and at worst it was 16% but almost all was at 12%. 
My question is will this setup get me through the winter or will I  probably have major  ice problems?  I'm going to  keep my old stove just in case I need it to get  thru the  winter.
I have a 2000 Sq home total , 1000 Sq per floor with  tall ceilings, I am now also wondering if I  upgrade the  chimney should I just go 8 and get the king for the longer burn times? The local dealer has been  great, it wouldn't happen  until the spring and I'd have to trade the sirocco for a loss but might be worth it.


----------



## Highbeam

Larch said:


> Hello everyone,  I'm  new to this forum hopefully  this is in the right place, it said everything  blaze king.I've been  burning wood for full-time heating for 30 years total and 14 years in current home setup  with a pacific energy alderlea T5 with good results  except for burn times on cold days, now that situations have changed( kids grew up and wife decided to go back to  work) and no one will be home during the coldest days  to  reload the stove we decided to upgrade.  Local dealer talked me into the sirocco 30.2. With a one month free trial exchange because my chimney setup is questionable for this stove. The chimney goes up 6 feet  from top of stove thru wall using 2 45° elbows(single wall), then of course  goes to the  insulated stainless steel setup for another 20 feet, the setup is with a 7" pipe from  stove top all the way. I have zero draw problems resulting in  smoke spillage at any point , not starting, loading lowburns, nothing. The problem  I  have is with moisture,  I  am assuming  the bigger pipe makes it to lazy and the steam condenses. I was going to  exchange it and go with  a non cat stove but have decided that this stove will be worth the hassle of replacing the setup  to 6" and building a  insulated  chase for exterior if necessary in the spring. I've been  running the blaze king for about a month and a half now and love it except for the water. Have checked chimney pipe for cleaning  multiple times and is incredibly clean, the moisture I  get out of it is fairly clear, has  not been very cold yet but on the cold mornings around-5 Celsius next to no moisture if any because  warmer faster flue  I'm assuming. Wood is mostly Douglas fir, a little jack pine and larch, I  tested it for moisture content  and at worst it was 16% but almost all was at 12%.
> My question is will this setup get me through the winter or will I  probably have major  ice problems?  I'm going to  keep my old stove just in case I need it to get  thru the  winter.
> I have a 2000 Sq home total , 1000 Sq per floor with  tall ceilings, I am now also wondering if I  upgrade the  chimney should I just go 8 and get the king for the longer burn times? The local dealer has been  great, it wouldn't happen  until the spring and I'd have to trade the sirocco for a loss but might be worth it.



Your chimney sounds fine. Double wall interior pipe would be an upgrade. I burn the same Doug fir fuel in a similar climate and never get water outside of the flue. How is this water escaping your flue? It should be built so that any liquid water runs down into your stove. 

These BK stoves are very popular is Alaska, so the cold ambient temperatures are not a problem. Mostly because you will be burning a little hotter and flue temps should be higher. 

Are you sure you’re running hot enough to keep the cat meter well into the active part of the gauge?


----------



## spudman99

I had some time this morning and thought I might add this little tidbit that I used during prep to get my insert ready for use this year.

The Princess box has what I call a deflector plate on either side just above the angle irons that hold the fire brick in place.  They provide a rough 1" or so gap off the side of the unit.  During the burning season my gap collects plenty of creosote in this space, typically flakey shiny stuff.  I know you can burn that up with a high heat run, but I like to get it all out.  








This gap is hard to get tools into to vacuum or scrape.  I used this tool that is very flexible to dislodge the flakes, then pull them forward into the box where I can easily vacuum them up.  It costs maybe $4 and did the job well. 






I know this is an out of season post but I just did this service about a month ago and finally got around to writing this up.


----------



## Larch

Highbeam said:


> Your chimney sounds fine. Double wall interior pipe would be an upgrade. I burn the same Doug fir fuel in a similar climate and never get water outside of the flue. How is this water escaping your flue? It should be built so that any liquid water runs down into your stove.
> 
> These BK stoves are very popular is Alaska, so the cold ambient temperatures are not a problem. Mostly because you will be burning a little hotter and flue temps should be higher.
> 
> Are you sure you’re running hot enough to keep the cat meter well into the active part of the gauge?


My cat prob tends to read around the 12 o'clock  to the 4 o'clock sometimes  higher  but  mostly hangs around 2 to 3 o'clock for first part of burns and noon to one on later parts, it only gets  near inactive zone when almost out.
The water builds up and drips out of the outside stainless steel insulated cleanout T
Thanks for the reply


----------



## Diabel

Larch said:


> My cat prob tends to read around the 12 o'clock  to the 4 o'clock sometimes  higher  but  mostly hangs around 2 to 3 o'clock for first part of burns and noon to one on later parts, it only gets  near inactive zone when almost out.
> The water builds up and drips out of the outside stainless steel insulated cleanout T
> Thanks for the reply


I get the exact same thing/condensation. Initially I thought it was rain coming in via the cap but now I believe it is condensation. It builds up in the cleanout T and then freezes. Your description of the cat probe behaviour resembles mine exactly.


----------



## Larch

Diabel said:


> I get the exact same thing/condensation. Initially I thought it was rain coming in via the cap but now I believe it is condensation. It builds up in the cleanout T and then freezes. Your description of the cat probe behaviour resembles mine exactly.


OK thanks, from threads I  read I  was starting to think I was the only one. Hopefully that means  I'll be good for the winter and build a insulated chase next summer if need be,  highbeam's response make me hope  the 7" size is fine


----------



## kennyp2339

Yesterday was a great BK test for me, we had almost 56 deg f out, a strong cold front blew through right around 1pm, I notice temps tanking, mid 40's by 2pm, loaded the stove up, got called into work at 3pm, added a couple splits, then set it down for a low and slow.
Got home at 6:30 this morning, plenty of coals, outside it was 28deg f, inside it was 70 deg f, loaded the princess up again with just maple, took a shower and went to bed. 43 outside at noon, grey and damp (weather people saying first flakes this evening here) The BK is chugging along, mostly running black glass w/ exception of a 4" V dead center, I'm always amazed with this stove, especially in the beginning of every burn season.


----------



## Larch

kennyp2339 said:


> Yesterday was a great BK test for me, we had almost 56 deg f out, a strong cold front blew through right around 1pm, I notice temps tanking, mid 40's by 2pm, loaded the stove up, got called into work at 3pm, added a couple splits, then set it down for a low and slow.
> Got home at 6:30 this morning, plenty of coals, outside it was 28deg f, inside it was 70 deg f, loaded the princess up again with just maple, took a shower and went to bed. 43 outside at noon, grey and damp (weather people saying first flakes this evening here) The BK is chugging along, mostly running black glass w/ exception of a 4" V dead center, I'm always amazed with this stove, especially in the beginning of every burn season.


Yes I've  only had  my blaze king  for about a month and a half  but it's been amazing me also, it's been  hovering around the freezing  temperature here and in my sirocco with Douglas fir I get 24-28 hours easy and with the jack pine about 16-19 hours, my whole life with wood heat and nothing else has ever come close. You'd  get cooked out for 5 hours then drastically start cooling off.


----------



## Nealm66

Man I sure have had to rebuild a fire a lot this year. Pineapple Express they cal them. Warms up like crazy, then cools back down. Even on low it’s just too much.  PITA


----------



## Diabel

If I spend more than 4/5 days running the Princess, the 1100sqf space it sits in gets too warm even in the dead of winter. The upper level is nice and comfortable.  The temps really dropped here 36 avg. and we had a thin/wet blanket of snow this morning.


----------



## Nelson

Hey everyone - my thermo knob started spinning past the point it is supposed to (in hindsight, I should have realized it was getting loose when turning the knob to the high setting was taking it past 6 oclock to 8 oclock). I've got it lined up again but was curious as to how tight I should tighten the set screw. I screw it in fairly tight and it's back working the way it should. Should I crank it down a bit more? How often are folks noticing the set screw coming loose?

Thanks!


----------



## begreen

Nealm66 said:


> Man I sure have had to rebuild a fire a lot this year. Pineapple Express they cal them. Warms up like crazy, then cools back down. Even on low it’s just too much.  PITA


It's nuts to be burning when it's 55-60º outside. Temp started dropping around noon here and I started a fire a few hours ago. Temp now is 44º and still falling.


----------



## Nealm66

Diabel said:


> If I spend more than 4/5 days running the Princess, the 1100sqf space it sits in gets too warm even in the dead of winter. The upper level is nice and comfortable.  The temps really dropped here 36 avg. and we had a thin/wet blanket of snow this morning.


It’s really weird how long it takes for my house to cool down in these warm weather events. No big deal to open some windows and it’s saving some wood for sure. Just never realized how much warmth is stored.


----------



## Nealm66

begreen said:


> It's nuts to be burning when it's 55-60º outside. Temp started dropping around noon here and I started a fire a few hours ago. Temp now is 44º and still falling.


Ya, I didn’t know it was going to get so warm. Reloaded Sunday morning and set it on a low simmer and it just chugged along , well , you know.


----------



## Tron

begreen said:


> It's nuts to be burning when it's 55-60º outside.


Why not? Burning season is not that long down here, and if I fire up the stove in the 50F mornings with highs today around 70F, I can prevent the furnace from running all day with the BK set to low.
True, one must be careful to a) keep the cat at temperature and b) not get roasted out of the house.
Cat temperature gauge then usually hovers around the 10 o'clock mark.


----------



## clancey

Yea I imagine Tron you take the damp chill off the air and you feel comfortable...in MS  its the chill and damp factor that make you cold and a nice wood heater is just perfect..even at 50 degrees...which to me a old clancey feels "cold"...lol clancey


----------



## MTASH

I can't burn above about 45-50 degrees outside temperature without roasting the house.


----------



## Tron

Plus, I pull more dead standing trees out of our woods than I can burn in a given year, and that's only the stuff that's like less than 100ft off our trail, so no reason not to use it.


----------



## Dieselhead

Nelson said:


> Hey everyone - my thermo knob started spinning past the point it is supposed to (in hindsight, I should have realized it was getting loose when turning the knob to the high setting was taking it past 6 oclock to 8 oclock). I've got it lined up again but was curious as to how tight I should tighten the set screw. I screw it in fairly tight and it's back working the way it should. Should I crank it down a bit more? How often are folks noticing the set screw coming loose?
> 
> Thanks!


Snug is good. You will know. No more jiggle on the shaft. Back the set screw all the way out and apply a drop of blue thread locker may help prevent the issue in the future. I have 7 seasons on my stove and have not had the screw come loose so it seems the luck of the draw.


----------



## Highbeam

begreen said:


> It's nuts to be burning when it's 55-60º outside.


Spoken like a true heat pump owner and part time wood burner. For those of us using wood heat for primary heat, it doesn't really matter what the outside temperatures are. If it's cold enough inside then we burn.


----------



## begreen

Highbeam said:


> Spoken like a true heat pump owner and part time wood burner. For those of us using wood heat for primary heat, it doesn't really matter what the outside temperatures are. If it's cold enough inside then we burn.


We know you've been lusting after a simpler and cheaper alternative. When one has affordable resistance heat or better yet a heat pump, then it makes a lot more sense to burn electrons. It's cheaper and cleaner. We burn full-time when the weather warrants it. Each year this seems to be getting later. 60º on Nov 14th and 15th was close to record warmth.


----------



## TheTodd

dafattkidd said:


> Thanks! I know this is not an exact science, but I’d love to hear some real world experiences of Ashford 25 owners.


Better late than never, but in my 3 seasons of burning, I have averaged about 10 hours on my Ashford insert on low.  Thankfully that setting is enough to keep my 2500sqft house warm almost the entire winter with a circulation fan placed in the foyer(stove fan off), so I rarely have to turn it up any higher and shorten burn times further, but on high it might be just 3-4 hours.  FWIW I have a block off plate and insulated firebox, and a pretty high stack that probably pulls my draft out of spec which affects burn times too.  I shoot for just a hair above where the flapper clicks to avoid stalling the cat and still have either fire or glowing coals most of the time.  Interestingly, I also seem to get better burn times loading E-W rather than N-S.  The majority of the conversation here about burn times, black boxes, etc relates to freestanding stove models, so we insert owners need to be aware of that.  Good information and conversation, just less applicable to us.  

Here's some more focused insert talk if you're interested:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/bk-ashford-25-and-sirocco-25.163405/


----------



## Tron

begreen said:


> When one has affordable resistance heat or better yet a heat pump, then it makes a lot more sense to burn electrons. It's cheaper and cleaner.


From a greater perspective, not always. For every kWh (let's stick with that as the unit for energy for now) your resistance heater puts into your home, even a high-efficient gas power plant has to burn about 2.5 kWh of gas. Add in transmission loss, you're looking at about 3 kWh. So here it makes much more sense to burn the gas in your home directly.
For a heat pump, which has an efficiency of about 4 (kWh electric to kWh heat pumped, depending on the delta-T between heating circuit temperature and outside temperature), it actually makes sense to use that electricity. If your electricity comes from an old coal plant, that may be different.

But wood is a purely renewable resource, and every gram of CO2 released by burning it (assuming one has a cat stove and not a non-cat pumping out CO) would also be released into the atmosphere if the wood were left to decompose naturally. So that uses up only the fossil energy you need to run your chainsaw/splitter/truck.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> From a greater perspective, not always. For every kWh (let's stick with that as the unit for energy for now) your resistance heater puts into your home, even a high-efficient gas power plant has to burn about 2.5 kWh of gas. Add in transmission loss, you're looking at about 3 kWh. So here it makes much more sense to burn the gas in your home directly.
> For a heat pump, which has an efficiency of about 4 (kWh electric to kWh heat pumped, depending on the delta-T between heating circuit temperature and outside temperature), it actually makes sense to use that electricity. If your electricity comes from an old coal plant, that may be different.
> 
> But wood is a purely renewable resource, and every gram of CO2 released by burning it (assuming one has a cat stove and not a non-cat pumping out CO) would also be released into the atmosphere if the wood were left to decompose naturally. So that uses up only the fossil energy you need to run your chainsaw/splitter/truck.


Couple of thoughts.

Our PNW power is significantly from hydro power from dams. Arguably renewable no?

Second, some care about emissions of CO2 and some only care about retail cost when considering when something makes "sense". I tend to fall into the second group on this decision.

If I had efficient (low cost) heat available from a non firewood fuel source then I admit that it may be ridiculous to burn firewood when it's 55-60 out. @begreen is not nuts. There would be a calculatable cutoff point where it's cheaper to burn firewood which would take into account the site specific costs of each fuel source.


----------



## Diabel

How many folks here burn wood here to save $$$ and how many just cause the love the wood burning concept?


----------



## bikedennis

Both


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> How many folks here burn wood here to save $$$ and how many just cause the love the wood burning concept?


You can have both. Maybe the question you’re looking for is how much extra you would pay to burn wood instead of using the furnace? Usually it’s cheaper to burn.


----------



## Diabel

I am one of the people that loose $$ anytime I look at my stoves……
It distracts me from actual work! But I love fussing with wood burning concept.


----------



## Nealm66

Well one things for sure, if you a rookie blaze kinger and you don’t pay attention to the weather forecast ( like I should) your in for some window opening events. The stove does exactly what it always does, just chugs along pumping out a long steady heat and 24 hours later I tap out and  don’t refuel


----------



## Diabel

Nealm66 said:


> Well one things for sure, if you a rookie blaze kinger and you don’t pay attention to the weather forecast ( like I should) your in for some window opening events. The stove does exactly what it always does, just chugs along pumping out a long steady heat and 24 hours later I tap out and  don’t refuel


As you said the other day, the weather on the west coast has been up and down. And what the heck is going on in BC with the rains…

It cooled down in the north east. My city VC is on a 24/7 duty since Sunday. Btw my furnace is fixed.


----------



## Nealm66

Ya, I really need to start looking at next day forecast before I start stuffing. Definitely got our share of rain and wind here as well. Got my generator all ready and that kept the power from going out, yes, this is a proven fact!! ( could be my imagination)


----------



## Dustin

Ahhhhhhh


----------



## kennyp2339

Diabel said:


> How many folks here burn wood here to save $$$ and how many just cause the love the wood burning concept?


I fit both, Depending on winter this year (before burning I would fill my 250gal  oil tank on average 3 times to keep the house 65 -68 deg f) Average oil price here is 3.62 a gal this week so $905 per fill up, if the price stays stable I'm avoiding spending close to 3k this year, thats great savings, my stove cost me $2,900 back in 2014. So the stove has paid for itself every other year on average and maybe again in one season this year. That in itself makes me giddy lol. 
Then factor in the lifestyle of burning, it isnt just about throwing splits in a stove, there is always some type of busy work involved, cutting, splitting, stacking, building woodsheds or nice racks, talking chainsaws and log splitters, getting fresh air, exercise, working up free scores, the concept is awesome and a lot of fun, I get that it isnt for everyone, but for me, its almost a perfect life.


----------



## stoveliker

First fire of the season. But man does the new double wall pipe stink. Much more than I had expected.

Pine and oak (and a layer of 2*4 cut offs on the bottom - no ash yet, so I thought this would help a bit). Cat lit off nicely.

But the stink ruined my bourbon...


----------



## kennyp2339

Last nights low was 26, princess on low with small candle like flames loaded at 8pm, turned the blower on at the lowest setting it would go, 12hrs later 1/2box of semi log coals, house still 72 deg f... always amazes me.


----------



## stoveliker

I had the same this morning; my box was not really full (splits slightly too long, so NS but tilted backwards). Ran the stove at 2 o'clock overnight (from 10.30 or so). Wake up, home at 69, 1/3  of the load remaining, no flames. Dial up to 3 and walk away until reloading time, I think around noon.

It's good to wake up and see success


----------



## dafattkidd

TheTodd said:


> Better late than never, but in my 3 seasons of burning, I have averaged about 10 hours on my Ashford insert on low.  Thankfully that setting is enough to keep my 2500sqft house warm almost the entire winter with a circulation fan placed in the foyer(stove fan off), so I rarely have to turn it up any higher and shorten burn times further, but on high it might be just 3-4 hours.  FWIW I have a block off plate and insulated firebox, and a pretty high stack that probably pulls my draft out of spec which affects burn times too.  I shoot for just a hair above where the flapper clicks to avoid stalling the cat and still have either fire or glowing coals most of the time.  Interestingly, I also seem to get better burn times loading E-W rather than N-S.  The majority of the conversation here about burn times, black boxes, etc relates to freestanding stove models, so we insert owners need to be aware of that.  Good information and conversation, just less applicable to us.
> 
> Here's some more focused insert talk if you're interested:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/bk-ashford-25-and-sirocco-25.163405/


Thank you!


----------



## clancey

Interesting conversations here and to me all the different ways have some unique problems free standing and inserts and wood burning and pellets and cat's or not--this is quite a learning experience and I should have started this 50 years ago lol lol  good reading thanks..old clancey


----------



## Larch

I've  only had  the sirocco for about  2 months now but I'm still  can't believe how much control I  have over this stove, the house for the first time in  14 years is a steady temperature wherever I  want it, and its amazing how little  heat it takes to keep my house warm with steady heat. Once I  sort out the condensation in my exterior chimney it's going to be down  right boring. I wish I  new about these blaze kings years ago.


----------



## Nealm66

Larch said:


> I've  only had  the sirocco for about  2 months now but I'm still  can't believe how much control I  have over this stove, the house for the first time in  14 years is a steady temperature wherever I  want it, and its amazing how little  heat it takes to keep my house warm with steady heat. Once I  sort out the condensation in my exterior chimney it's going to be down  right boring. I wish I  new about these blaze kings years ago.


It’s still really cool the second season


----------



## bikedennis

I like the fact that I get incredible burn times from pine.  Folks around here pass on the easily available pine so I now gladly burn it.  Easy pickings.


----------



## lsucet

First fire of the season was two days ago. I have been till now letting the mini split do its thing and being lazy to load the stoves.
Just fired one of the them. Temps have been here for about a month mid 20s to mid 30s through the nights.
All what I can say is that It feels good to feel the warmth of wood burning.
Mimi split system doing a wonderful job and is good to have an alternative, but nothing feels so good like wood burning. I am hooked again.🤭


----------



## bikedennis

Been gone for days returning to a cold house.  Running the stove with full air and by pass closed.  BK catalyst thermometer is way right past the active zone. Any harm done?


----------



## lsucet

Should be no harm but if it is up to temperature you can dial it down a little. I don't feel the need to run it WOT to get good heat out of it. After is up to temperature, usually I turn it down in a few steps. I don't know which model you have or setup but should be about the same.


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> Been gone for days returning to a cold house.  Running the stove with full air and by pass closed.  BK catalyst thermometer is way right past the active zone. Any harm done?



If your gaskets are good and draft is in spec the stove is supposed to prevent over fire automatically by closing the intake as needed to stay below “redline”. I tell you though, it gets screaming hot. Just as hot as any big stove at near 800. Myself, in your situation, I go for 3/4 of max setting and run the fans on high. Cleans the firebox out really well.


----------



## mlsoden907

Hello, new to wood stove use.  Recently installed a Blaze King Princess and have been using it for a while.  This week the temperatures dropped to below zero F and are forecast to stay that way for some time.  I have noticed significant ice on the lower rim of my chimney cap.  I am concerned about the ice building up on the cap and obstructing the chimney, as well as ice building up around the base of the chimney from water dripping down.  I am burning kiln dried wood that tests at 19% or lower.  The Blaze King manual says to run the stove with the thermostat on high for 4-5 minutes and that should melt the ice.  I tried that and the ice did not melt off.  I read another thread here that had a suggestion of running the stove hot with the bypass open to heat the flue up and melt the ice.  I opened the bypass and ran the stove hot for 20 minutes or so and the ice is still there.  My local dealer says that the ice will melt off when the temps warm up but I am concerned that none of the recommendations for clearing the ice seem to have worked.


----------



## begreen

Calling Poindexter to the front desk, Fairbanks BK question.


----------



## lsucet

mlsoden907 said:


> Hello, new to wood stove use.  Recently installed a Blaze King Princess and have been using it for a while.  This week the temperatures dropped to below zero F and are forecast to stay that way for some time.  I have noticed significant ice on the lower rim of my chimney cap.  I am concerned about the ice building up on the cap and obstructing the chimney, as well as ice building up around the base of the chimney from water dripping down.  I am burning kiln dried wood that tests at 19% or lower.  The Blaze King manual says to run the stove with the thermostat on high for 4-5 minutes and that should melt the ice.  I tried that and the ice did not melt off.  I read another thread here that had a suggestion of running the stove hot with the bypass open to heat the flue up and melt the ice.  I opened the bypass and ran the stove hot for 20 minutes or so and the ice is still there.  My local dealer says that the ice will melt off when the temps warm up but I am concerned that none of the recommendations for clearing the ice seem to have worked.


I don't think is a good idea to run it with bypass open. Once is in the active zone, close bypass and if you need more heat, or what you are trying to accomplish, run the dial on high. Bypass open only waiting to get into the active zone or for reloads.


----------



## mlsoden907

lsucet said:


> I don't think is a good idea to run it with bypass open. Once is in the active zone, close bypass and if you need more heat, or what you are trying to accomplish, run the dial on high. Bypass open only waiting to get into the active zone or for reloads.


Thank you,  re-read the thread and that is what the poster was talking about, running the bypass open on re-loads.  Going to try that and see if it works


----------



## Highbeam

mlsoden907 said:


> Thank you,  re-read the thread and that is what the poster was talking about, running the bypass open on re-loads.  Going to try that and see if it works



With the bypass closed, as it always should be when the door is closed and cat is at active and rising temperatures per the dial, leave the thermostat on max setting for as long as it takes to melt the ice. If you can't get the flue hot enough doing this then we have to wonder if your wood is of good quality. 

I've definitely had yellow creosote icicles hanging from the bottom of my chimney cap but the ice never climbed up into the hot part of the actual exit part of the chimney cap. Are you actually getting ice in the "throat" of your chimney cap right in the path of smoke?


----------



## mlsoden907

Highbeam said:


> With the bypass closed, as it always should be when the door is closed and cat is at active and rising temperatures per the dial, leave the thermostat on max setting for as long as it takes to melt the ice. If you can't get the flue hot enough doing this then we have to wonder if your wood is of good quality.
> 
> I've definitely had yellow creosote icicles hanging from the bottom of my chimney cap but the ice never climbed up into the hot part of the actual exit part of the chimney cap. Are you actually getting ice in the "throat" of your chimney cap right in the path of smoke?


The ice is only around the lower rim of the chimney cap, not in the “throat” and so far doesn’t seem to be climbing or restricting anything. 

My concern about running the stove with the thermostat full open for extended time is that the stove starts to burn very hot and I am concerned about doing damage that way. Any longer than 20 minutes or so and the stove seems to be very hot. 

I saw someone recommend a 10 min or so burn with the cat bypassed on a reload. Any thoughts? Thanks for the input.


----------



## begreen

Icicles around the cap bottom are ok, there is always some moisture in firewood. The thermostat is supposed to protect the stove from overfiring or overheating. Watch the catalyst thermometer. It should stay in the safe zone. Instead of leaving the bypass open for 10 minutes after a full reload, set the thermostat to high for 15-20 minutes.


----------



## mlsoden907

begreen said:


> Icicles around the cap bottom are ok, there is always some moisture in firewood. The thermostat is supposed to protect the stove from overfiring or overheating. Watch the catalyst thermometer. It should stay in the safe zone. Instead of leaving the bypass open for 10 minutes after a full reload, set the thermostat to high for 15-20 minutes.


Ok, thanks. Will do that.


----------



## Tron

begreen said:


> there is always some moisture in firewood.


Not only that, but when wood (mainly cellulose, a hydrocarbon) burns, it turns into carbon dioxide and water.

But to the question, I highly doubt that any ice that may be in the path of the flue gases will be able to stay solid for very long, even in 
Alaskan weather. If you have a "T" connection with the flue being outside, then the lower part of the "T" will collect water and it can freeze as no gases pass through there.


----------



## Diabel

Tron said:


> If you have a "T" connection with the flue being outside, then the lower part of the "T" will collect water and it can freeze as no gases pass through there.


This is exactly my situation. Condensation/water accumulates in the lower part of the T and it freezes. I am not comfortable with this as I do not use the Princess 24/7 (weekends mainly). Last spring we had a major warm up at one point and I had some water come through the horizontal thimble into the 45* and onto the floor right behind the stove. Not good! Btw fuel is more than well seasoned. And using the same fuel in my VC and zero issues…….Unless, the VC does not have a T and perhaps the water falls back into the firebox and evaporates on contact.


----------



## Tron

That is the reason (your VC not having a T), then the water just runs down the flue an evaporates when it makes it to the hotter parts of the flue (near stove). But with the "T", it gets trapped in there.

Would drilling a few small (dunno, maybe 1/4") holes into the bottom plate of the T be a solution? That way liquid water would drain out of it, and with holes that small your draft would hardly be impacted.


----------



## Highbeam

mlsoden907 said:


> The ice is only around the lower rim of the chimney cap, not in the “throat” and so far doesn’t seem to be climbing or restricting anything.
> 
> My concern about running the stove with the thermostat full open for extended time is that the stove starts to burn very hot and I am concerned about doing damage that way. Any longer than 20 minutes or so and the stove seems to be very hot.
> 
> I saw someone recommend a 10 min or so burn with the cat bypassed on a reload. Any thoughts? Thanks for the input.



Don't mess around with the bypass open when it shouldn't be. I've seen too much damage caused to the nonreplacable (without cutting and welding) bypass gasket retainer brackets that I would almost never recommend running with the bypass open any longer than the manual requires. 

Ice dangling from the bottom of the cap is fairly normal and okay even in wet western washington. Just be careful that they don't damage the roof or storm collar of the chimney when they fall.


----------



## mlsoden907

Highbeam said:


> Don't mess around with the bypass open when it shouldn't be. I've seen too much damage caused to the nonreplacable (without cutting and welding) bypass gasket retainer brackets that I would almost never recommend running with the bypass open any longer than the manual requires.
> 
> Ice dangling from the bottom of the cap is fairly normal and okay even in wet western washington. Just be careful that they don't damage the roof or storm collar of the chimney when they fall.


Thank you. Good to know that what I am seeing is  fairly normal. Will try to let the burn go longer so the meter is lower in the active range  when I load so I can run the thermostat on high and the bypass closed for longer without getting the stove too hot and see if that helps with the ice.


----------



## stoveliker

I agree; run high for an hour if necessary. With the bypass closed. You don't need to melt all the ice, just where it adheres to the metal.

In the end this (ice) is a good thing; it means the heat you are making is not going up the flue.  How tall is your chimney?

Most water you see is indeed simply a combustion product. I did a back of the envelope calculation at some point:




__





						Steam coming from chimney
					

Hey everyone, I have what is obviously steam coming from my chimney on cold low humidity days. I haven’t measured moisture content of my splits recently but I do know they are about a year from perfect (MC had been 19-22%) Is this a sign of wet wood when running a cat stove? Or can this be...




					www.hearth.com


----------



## stoveliker

Lit up again this afternoon. Some pine and a few tiny oak uglies. Running high to make a nice coal bed for the night reload. Of course I now think I put too much in there. But the cat works well. Near max on the gauge when I went to 4.30 pm on my gauge (closed is noon). Nice and bright. Almost got burned taking the pic, that much radiating heat came off.


----------



## clancey

You be careful and that looks like a atom bomb---no flames I see--lol One thing about it if it gets cold we will be ready....lol  clancey


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> Lit up again this afternoon. Some pine and a few tiny oak uglies. Running high to make a nice coal bed for the night reload. Of course I now think I put too much in there. But the cat works well. Near max on the gauge when I went to 4.30 pm on my gauge (closed is noon). Nice and bright. Almost got burned taking the pic, that much radiating heat came off.
> 
> View attachment 286079


That is one bright cat! I can feel the heat here! Wait, that is coming from my VC (black box and cat at 1500*F). 
At 4:30pm I will have flames in my Princess and my cat will not glow like this, there is no way. Every system is different, I get it.


----------



## stoveliker

Diabel said:


> That is one bright cat! I can feel the heat here! Wait, that is coming from my VC (black box and cat at 1500*F).
> At 4:30pm I will have flames in my Princess and my cat will not glow like this, there is no way. Every system is different, I get it.



Yep,. chimney, wood, and I had just run high (fully open) to nicely heat up the chimney fast (until the flue probe neared  900). Then dialed down in two steps (5 mins apart) to 4.30.  So a lot of wood was hot and gassy (the haze is not the window but smoke). So the cat had a lot to eat. And it's still a bit newish, I think. Second season but it was a short season last year (maybe one cord).

I now have the intermittent bluish explosions of Northern lights at this setting.


----------



## stoveliker

It'd be nice to be able to put a pic in the sigblock. I'd add one of my Tstat, because I understand that their orientation is not the same for different models.


----------



## Diabel

I bet. Princess fully closed is at 12:00 o’clock


----------



## mlsoden907

stoveliker said:


> I agree; run high for an hour if necessary. With the bypass closed. You don't need to melt all the ice, just where it adheres to the metal.
> 
> In the end this (ice) is a good thing; it means the heat you are making is not going up the flue.  How tall is your chimney?
> 
> Most water you see is indeed simply a combustion product. I did a back of the envelope calculation at some point:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steam coming from chimney
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, I have what is obviously steam coming from my chimney on cold low humidity days. I haven’t measured moisture content of my splits recently but I do know they are about a year from perfect (MC had been 19-22%) Is this a sign of wet wood when running a cat stove? Or can this be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hearth.com


Thanks, consensus seems to be that the issue is not one to be overly concerned with as long as it doesn’t build up abnormally and is only around the bottom of the ring. I have 12’ of Excel black pipe inside and 8’ of double wall up through my attic space.


----------



## mlsoden907

mlsoden907 said:


> Thanks, consensus seems to be that the issue is not one to be overly concerned with as long as it doesn’t build up abnormally and is only around the bottom of the ring. I have 12’ of Excel black pipe inside and 8’ of double wall up through my attic space.


8’ of double wall is 3’ inside attic and 5’ above roof line


----------



## stoveliker

mlsoden907 said:


> 8’ of double wall is 3’ inside attic and 5’ above roof line



I'd (naively) think it should be possible to get the cap above freezing with that length. But as @begreen said, @Poindexter is the expert in Fairbanks.


----------



## mlsoden907

stoveliker said:


> I'd (naively) think it should be possible to get the cap above freezing with that length. But as @begreen said, @Poindexter is the expert in Fairbanks.


As I have been getting this info I think that I have been doing a reload too soon and not allowing for an extended burn with the thermostat open full. I am going to let the stove go longer and the cat gauge go further down in the active zone before I reload.


----------



## stoveliker

mlsoden907 said:


> As I have been getting this info I think that I have been doing a reload too soon and not allowing for an extended burn with the thermostat open full. I am going to let the stove go longer and the cat gauge go further down in the active zone before I reload.



The length of the burn should be dictated by how much heat you need (longer burn is less heat per hour), not by the issue of ice. The thing you need to try imo is to burn high until the ice falls off, IF you are concerned about the weight of accumulation. Time that, and then you know (for this weather) what you need to do to get rid of the ice. Here it took some 10 minutes or so at 20 f to drop the icicles (but my stack is tall, so colder up too).


----------



## lsucet

mlsoden907 said:


> As I have been getting this info I think that I have been doing a reload too soon and not allowing for an extended burn with the thermostat open full. I am going to let the stove go longer and the cat gauge go further down in the active zone before I reload.


I think that you can get a good start of how to burn following the instructions in the operating/owner's manual.

  Once you feel comfortable, possibly you can make some adjustments here and there based on wood species, amount, heat needed etc. That also should take care the icy condition you are experiencing. 
Sometimes going back to the basics is the best route.


----------



## mlsoden907

stoveliker said:


> The length of the burn should be dictated by how much heat you need (longer burn is less heat per hour), not by the issue of ice. The thing you need to try imo is to burn high until the ice falls off, IF you are concerned about the weight of accumulation. Time that, and then you know (for this weather) what you need to do to get rid of the ice. Here it took some 10 minutes or so at 20 f to drop the icicles (but my stack is tall, so colder up too).


Thanks, will keep this info in mind as I move forward. With the responses I have gotten I am less concerned now about the ice causing severe problems. I will still keep and eye out for any damage they cause when dropping.


----------



## mlsoden907

lsucet said:


> I think that you can get a good start of how to burn following the instructions in the operating/owner's manual.
> 
> Once you feel comfortable, possibly you can make some adjustments here and there based on wood species, amount, heat needed etc. That also should take care the icy condition you are experiencing.
> Sometimes going back to the basics is the best route.


Thanks, good advice. I have not been doing full open burns on reloads. The stove has been heating and burning so nice that I have been adding wood, letting it catch and burn for only a few minutes so that it gets going well and then turning the thermostat back a bit to keep the temps comfortable.   Will let my burns go a bit longer so that when I reload I can let the stove run longer full open without it cooking us out.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes. That pumps out the remaining moisture better out of the chimney. Good luck. And please let us know how it goes.


----------



## Dustin

The thermostat on my KE40 is “crunchy” when I turn it. 

It still works as it’s supposed too, but it wasn’t always crunchy before . 

Since it’s only been a year… should I call the stove shop or is there a quicker fix? 

Dustin


----------



## Dustin

Coal pictures after a 24 hour half load of mixed Doug Fir and alder. High of 39 here today and 31 last night. 

There is an alien in my stove…..


----------



## Highbeam

Dustin said:


> The thermostat on my KE40 is “crunchy” when I turn it.
> 
> It still works as it’s supposed too, but it wasn’t always crunchy before .
> 
> Since it’s only been a year… should I call the stove shop or is there a quicker fix?
> 
> Dustin


Super easy and needed every couple of years. 

Close the thermostat to max cold. Remove the thermostat cover. Locate the spring washer on the thermostat rod that provides tension. Finger on some high temp anti seize grease, work it in, turning the thermostat knob. You’ll feel it get smooth like buttah. 

Then, close the thermostat back to full cold (closed flapper) and put the cover back on.


----------



## MTASH

I didn't even take the cover off, just shot the end of the shaft where it goes into the box with some spray lube .


----------



## Poindexter

mlsoden907 said:


> Thanks, good advice. I have not been doing full open burns on reloads. The stove has been heating and burning so nice that I have been adding wood, letting it catch and burn for only a few minutes so that it gets going well and then turning the thermostat back a bit to keep the temps comfortable.   Will let my burns go a bit longer so that when I reload I can let the stove run longer full open without it cooking us out.


Sorry for the delay.  I am not sure how much overtime I have been working in the last 16 days or so, but it has been an unreasonable amount.

Do we see creo-sicles around Fairbanks, yes.  Do I see creo-sicles on my stack, only very rarely.  Our local BK dealer is excellent.  If they installed your chimney and aren't worried, you are golden.

The main thing I see now that I have caught up from having been tagged, is the bake portion, bake down, bake out portion of the burn.

When I am down to hot coals, a glob maybe basketball sized +/- it is time to reload.  Then get all the coals lined up somewhere, manual says to the front, then load the firebox to the gills, to the rafters, cram every stick in there you can.  

With the loading door opened and the bypass door open, let the coals catch the new fuel on fire.  Once the new fuel has caught good, leave the loading door just cracked with the bypass door still open and let the new fuel get to a good ripping burn.  When it is first getting going you will hear kind of huff-pause-huff-pause.  Once it is drawing good and the fuel is well caught you should hear just a steady rush or roar.  

Close the loading door.  WIth the bypass door still open we now wait for the combustor temp to come up to the active zone.  On a hot reload, my definition, the combustor hasn't dropped out of the active zone.  With the new fuel well engulfed, the loading door closed, the combustor up to active zone, now we close the bypass door and enter the bake down zone.

Or bake out, or just the "bake"  What you got is a box full of desirable new fuel under 20% MC, but closed up inside a steel box at 600 degrees F.  The last of that water is getting baked out now.  Takes about half an hour.  Leave the thermostat, the throttle at full, top of the swoosh, let it thunder while that free water gets baked out.

Then, after the 30 minutes, with your new fuel baked down to 0.000% moisture content in a 600 degree oven, now turn the throttle/thermostat down to your desired cruise setting.  No more creosicles.


----------



## RockyMtMan

I am new here, but been having all kinds of fun reading and learning from everyone's posts.  I been burning wood for at least 20yrs in a old Nordic Erik Jr.  Was a great stove, but started trying to slow burn in it and had creosote problems like crazy.  Just switched to a BK Ashford about 3wks ago.  I am totally amazed.  I can now load it and keep the house at 70degs.  Not this up and down Temp stuff.   My wife loves it, now I feel like we can totally heat by wood.  Thanks all and can't wait to learn more and talk burning wood.   I did wonder how often does a person need to clean the flue when burning 24/7?


----------



## Highbeam

During that bake period, flue temps will be approaching redline. Especially with sappy softwoods. I personally will shorten the bake period to prevent overtemping the flue.


----------



## ratsrepus

I thought this wont work?


----------



## stoveliker

I presume that a 40 ft stack would overcome a lot. Once it's warm. Starting it might be a problem though (preheating might just result in warm air in that U, and the rest coming back out the stove).


----------



## Diabel

Poindexter said:


> Or bake out, or just the "bake"  What you got is a box full of desirable new fuel under 20% MC, but closed up inside a steel box at 600 degrees F.  The last of that water is getting baked out now.  Takes about half an hour.  Leave the thermostat, the throttle at full, top of the swoosh, let it thunder while that free water gets baked out.


I hope you are correct. If I run my firebox for 30min using my hemlock (dry) I will peg the cat meter way past its upper limit,  I will see the flue probe meter around 800*F and my burn will be much shorter. But in order to eliminate water/condensation accumulate in my T I will try it again. Hopefully, my meters read high.


----------



## Diabel

ratsrepus said:


> I thought this wont work?


What? That is something…


----------



## stoveliker

Diabel said:


> I hope you are correct. If I run my firebox for 30min using my hemlock (dry) I will peg the cat meter way past its upper limit,  I will see the flue probe meter around 800*F and my burn will be much shorter. But in order to eliminate water/condensation accumulate in my T I will try it again. Hopefully, my meters read high.



I had asked about flue probe readings, and someone said that the char should not be above 900 F. So your 800 seems ok (if the 900 is ok...)

I have deceased my char time for very dry wood too - in view of burn times. But I'm not sure I can see a difference (success in Tetris may be more dictating than 10 minutes shorter charring?)


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> I had asked about flue probe readings, and someone said that the char should not be above 900 F. So your 800 seems ok (if the 900 is ok...)
> 
> I have deceased my char time for very dry wood too - in view of burn times. But I'm not sure I can see a difference (success in Tetris may be more dictating than 10 minutes shorter charring?)


I will do as mentioned again this weekend. Will char the crap out of the load. And see what happens. Will babysit the stove for sometime……heck reminds me of my old days with the VC (kidding). 

Granted, it does get very cold here at the lake, pipe is very exposed and the stove is running low and slow 95% of the burn.


----------



## Poindexter

Diabel said:


> I hope you are correct. If I run my firebox for 30min using my hemlock (dry) I will peg the cat meter way past its upper limit,  I will see the flue probe meter around 800*F and my burn will be much shorter. But in order to eliminate water/condensation accumulate in my T I will try it again. Hopefully, my meters read high.


Kinda out on a limb here.  IIRC my neighbor up here said 19%, maybe "under 19%."  I agree with my spruce at 15% or your remarkably dry hemlock bake down doesn't take 30 minutes.  And a flue gas temp probe I think is a good idea for anyone running fuel consistently at or under 16%.

But for Joe Hoemowner at or near 20% MC fuel, 30 minutes for bakedown should be about right with no flue gas temp monitor required, ass/u/me-ing a chimney that isn't hopeless.


----------



## Diabel

Poindexter said:


> Kinda out on a limb here.  IIRC my neighbor up here said 19%, maybe "under 19%."  I agree with my spruce at 15% or your remarkably dry hemlock bake down doesn't take 30 minutes.  And a flue gas temp probe I think is a good idea for anyone running fuel consistently at or under 16%.
> 
> But for Joe Hoemowner at or near 20% MC fuel, 30 minutes for bakedown should be about right with no flue gas temp monitor required, ass/u/me-ing a chimney that isn't hopeless.


Thank you. I think I understand. 
@Poindexter are you saying that using your way you have no ice forming around the bottom end of your chimney cap?


----------



## Poindexter

Diabel said:


> Thank you. I think I understand.
> @Poindexter are you saying that using your way you have no ice forming around the bottom end of your chimney cap?


I _rarely_ have creo-sicles on my stack.  When it gets down to -45, -50dF even with the stove running wide open throttle 24/7 I will see some ice build up, but once we get back up into the -30s and I get the house warmed back up, no more ice on the stack.


----------



## Diabel

Poindexter said:


> I _rarely_ have creo-sicles on my stack.  When it gets down to -45, -50dF even with the stove running wide open throttle 24/7 I will see some ice build up, but once we get back up into the -30s and I get the house warmed back up, no more ice on the stack.


It seems like you run your BK very hard.


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> It seems like you run your BK very hard.


-50F!! It’s just hard to imagine. Would love to experience that sometime.

I’ve had creosicles in just 10-20 degree weather because I was running low flue temperatures. Not so much due to extreme ambient temperatures.


----------



## stoveliker

Not sure what the color of creosicles would be, but I've had white, faintly yellow icicles hanging from my cap in 20 F weather. (Tall stack, so cooler flue up top.)


----------



## Diabel

I truly appreciate all the responses. I worry about the T filling up with water (initially I thought it was side rain). 
My creocicles are clear looking  on the BK pipe, not so much on the VC pipe. 
Did not clean the pipe this season as I was not burning  Jan 2021 on.


----------



## mlsoden907

Poindexter said:


> Sorry for the delay.  I am not sure how much overtime I have been working in the last 16 days or so, but it has been an unreasonable amount.
> 
> Do we see creo-sicles around Fairbanks, yes.  Do I see creo-sicles on my stack, only very rarely.  Our local BK dealer is excellent.  If they installed your chimney and aren't worried, you are golden.
> 
> The main thing I see now that I have caught up from having been tagged, is the bake portion, bake down, bake out portion of the burn.
> 
> When I am down to hot coals, a glob maybe basketball sized +/- it is time to reload.  Then get all the coals lined up somewhere, manual says to the front, then load the firebox to the gills, to the rafters, cram every stick in there you can.
> 
> With the loading door opened and the bypass door open, let the coals catch the new fuel on fire.  Once the new fuel has caught good, leave the loading door just cracked with the bypass door still open and let the new fuel get to a good ripping burn.  When it is first getting going you will hear kind of huff-pause-huff-pause.  Once it is drawing good and the fuel is well caught you should hear just a steady rush or roar.
> 
> Close the loading door.  WIth the bypass door still open we now wait for the combustor temp to come up to the active zone.  On a hot reload, my definition, the combustor hasn't dropped out of the active zone.  With the new fuel well engulfed, the loading door closed, the combustor up to active zone, now we close the bypass door and enter the bake down zone.
> 
> Or bake out, or just the "bake"  What you got is a box full of desirable new fuel under 20% MC, but closed up inside a steel box at 600 degrees F.  The last of that water is getting baked out now.  Takes about half an hour.  Leave the thermostat, the throttle at full, top of the swoosh, let it thunder while that free water gets baked out.
> 
> Then, after the 30 minutes, with your new fuel baked down to 0.000% moisture content in a 600 degree oven, now turn the throttle/thermostat down to your desired cruise setting.  No more creosicles.


Thanks for the detailed info. I will keep this in mind going  forward. I have not been packing my stove full, have been building smaller fires as suggested in the manual but don’t think I was burning them long enough. Like Diabel if I run my stove wide open my cat meter is pegged to the high side of the active zone after about 15-20 minutes. Should I be concerned about that?  Seems that if I ran if longer it would get too hot.  Will try a couple of full firebox loads and see if that changes how long I can burn wide open.


----------



## Poindexter

mlsoden907 said:


> Thanks for the detailed info. I will keep this in mind going  forward. I have not been packing my stove full, have been building smaller fires as suggested in the manual but don’t think I was burning them long enough. Like Diabel if I run my stove wide open my cat meter is pegged to the high side of the active zone after about 15-20 minutes. Should I be concerned about that?  Seems that if I ran if longer it would get too hot.  Will try a couple of full firebox loads and see if that changes how long I can burn wide open.


Is this a new stove?  Sorry, I am too tired to remember the name of two of my four kids tonight.  On a brand new stove, or a new replacement combustor in an older stove, the catalytic combustor is going to be "hyperactive" for the first half cord, first cord, something like that before it settles down.  Sort of like a puppy.

If your catalytic combustor has processed more than one cord of smoke at 19% MC and still gets above the active zone you can either praise Jesus you got a factory freak out of the box, or call the dealer to ask if you should be concerned about that.  I am on my fourth or fifth combustor now, one of them took two cords to settle down, the other ones all settled down before they had finished chomping one cord of smoke.


----------



## mlsoden907

Poindexter said:


> Is this a new stove?  Sorry, I am too tired to remember the name of two of my four kids tonight.  On a brand new stove, or a new replacement combustor in an older stove, the catalytic combustor is going to be "hyperactive" for the first half cord, first cord, something like that before it settles down.  Sort of like a puppy.
> 
> If your catalytic combustor has processed more than one cord of smoke at 19% MC and still gets above the active zone you can either praise Jesus you got a factory freak out of the box, or call the dealer to ask if you should be concerned about that.  I am on my fourth or fifth combustor now, one of them took two cords to settle down, the other ones all settled down before they had finished chomping one cord of smoke.


It is a new stove, just a couple of weeks of use so far


----------



## Poindexter

Diabel said:


> It seems like you run your BK very hard.


I have not modified my BK.  I have maintained it, gaskets and combustors and stuff, but it is otherwise factory/ stock/ EPA certified.

I run at full throttle/ full thermostat/ top of the swoosh a lot and I haven't hurt the stove.  At least six weeks year after year, more or less Christmas to Valentine's Day.  I really wanted a BK Princess, but my wife wanted either a BK Ashford 30.0 in Dutch Blue or some make other than BK.  I wanted a BK Princess first, any BK second and no wood stove at all third.

Since the Dutch Blue enamel never made it into production we compromised on an Ashford 30.0 in Chestnut Brown in May 2014 and I have beating on this thing like a red headed stepchild for seven years now.  If the Ashford 30 could not handle extended operation at wide open throttle they would have lowered the wide open throttle setting.  

If you got good gaskets, the loading door closed and the catalytic combustor engaged you are not going to hurt this stove at full swoosh.


----------



## mlsoden907

Poindexter said:


> I have not modified my BK.  I have maintained it, gaskets and combustors and stuff, but it is otherwise factory/ stock/ EPA certified.
> 
> I run at full throttle/ full thermostat/ top of the swoosh a lot and I haven't hurt the stove.  At least six weeks year after year, more or less Christmas to Valentine's Day.  I really wanted a BK Princess, but my wife wanted either a BK Ashford 30.0 in Dutch Blue or some make other than BK.  I wanted a BK Princess first, any BK second and no wood stove at all third.
> 
> Since the Dutch Blue enamel never made it into production we compromised on an Ashford 30.0 in Chestnut Brown in May 2014 and I have beating on this thing like a red headed stepchild for seven years now.  If the Ashford 30 could not handle extended operation at wide open throttle they would have lowered the wide open throttle setting.
> 
> If you got good gaskets, the loading door closed and the catalytic combustor engaged you are not going to hurt this stove at full swoosh.


Excellent, thank you very much.


----------



## Poindexter

Diabel said:


> I truly appreciate all the responses. I worry about the T filling up with water (initially I thought it was side rain).
> My creocicles are clear looking  on the BK pipe, not so much on the VC pipe.
> Did not clean the pipe this season as I was not burning  Jan 2021 on.


I got to pass on this one.  I am tagging @begreen who has seen one of everything and @stoveliker who has thought a fair bit more about airflow dynamics in chimneys than me.

TL;DR, I dont like Ts.

I have lived in a couple homes where a T made sense.  Any home where the architect made the framers crazy with sunken living rooms or a jacuzzi bathtub up on a pedestal like some kind of altar to soap bubbles and forced air heat is going to be a nightmare wood stove install.  With both of those I have lived in it would have made sense to put the wood stove on an exterior wall for best (marginal) interior heat distribution, run 4-6 feet of vertical interior pipe off the stove collar, punch the exterior wall, install an exterior T....

The main advantage I can see to an exterior T is you can brush bottom up in lousy weather without getting up on the roof and without getting crud all over the living room carpet.

The main disadvantage I see is the homeowner will have to burn 'some' extra wood to keep the chimney hot compared to an interior stack.

No judgement zone here.  I have lived [qv] in houses where an external T was the least bad option.

When I have creo-sicles they generally look like frozen apple juice.  I do have a neighbor who can make black ones.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> -50F!! It’s just hard to imagine. Would love to experience that sometime.
> 
> I’ve had creosicles in just 10-20 degree weather because I was running low flue temperatures. Not so much due to extreme ambient temperatures.



-50dF is hard to imagine.  I flew home from the lower 48 one winter, it was -55dF on the ground.  The airport ground crew brought over a pickup truck with what looked like an enormous hair dryer in the bed to thaw out the door seals on the plane so they could open the door for the passengers to get out.  Brief delay recovering my checked bag that night too. 

I am not sure we can use the acronym OMGWTFBBQ on this website, but trying to do life at -40dF and colder is pretty much one experience after the other of OMGWTFBBQ over and over and over, but it keeps the wankers out.  Let us do a house swap next time it is in the forecast.  I wil play in your shop and you can go door to door (in my truck) dealing with my customers in their homes.

I fully agree creo-sicles are a function of flue gas temperature, outdoor ambient temperature and total suspended water vapor in the flue gasses.  if the flue gas is a little too cool, or the outdoor ambient a little too low or the amount of water vapor in the gas stream a little too high, creo-sicles start forming.  If they are clear to light yellow and are getting melted off every week or so I don't see a problem.


----------



## Poindexter

stoveliker said:


> Not sure what the color of creosicles would be, but I've had white, faintly yellow icicles hanging from my cap in 20 F weather. (Tall stack, so cooler flue up top.)


White faintly yellow, awesome.  Have some eggnog.  If you google up "Shanghai 1920 eggnog" you will find several variations on a theme.  Mix some up this weekend and you will be in tall cotton come Christmas time.  Ground nutmeg from the store is an abomination that should have been listed in Leviticus chapter 18.  Get the full berries and a grater.  Happy holidays!


----------



## Poindexter

mlsoden907 said:


> It is a new stove, just a couple of weeks of use so far


I would be ecstatic to be going into January with a hyperactive combustor - but we are going into December.  

I am on call, again, tomorrow night, but will try to keep an eye here over the long weekend.  I am going to have to do about 16 hours Friday since I am not allowed to see people on Thursday (woo-hoo) but there are no idiots on staff at our local BK dealer that I know of.

When you open the loading door, fill it to the rafters, bake it on high for 30 minutes once you have the combustor engaged, and you should do fine.  Did you air dry your fuel or get kilned dried fuel from either of Aurora or Big Mike?


----------



## charger4406

I clean mine about mid season, but not really necessary as it
really is not all that dirty, as long as your wood is good and dry,
below 20% humidity, hope you like the new stove, mine has been
a good heater.


RockyMtMan said:


> how often does a person need to clean the flue when burning 24/7?


----------



## RockyMtMan

charger4406 said:


> I clean mine about mid season, but not really necessary as it
> really is not all that dirty, as long as your wood is good and dry,
> below 20% humidity, hope you like the new stove, mine has been
> a good heater.


Do you seem to have to clean more when burning pine?  I will be burning more pine than I like, but that seems to be what I can get.  I know my old stove would creosote up burning pine.  Don't have a feeling for what a CAT does with pine yet.  I know it seems to burn fine when dry.


----------



## stoveliker

@Diabel 
Is your T insulated too?

If so, the only thing I can say is that it appears your chimney is not warm enough - that is, warm enough to avoid condensation. That means also that whenever your cat starts dying, the creosote will accumulate fast if you don't notice it quickly.

If you really don't need the heat in the home, running the stove a bit higher is not a good option. Then I suggest to really char long and high so that your chimney at least heats up well in the beginning, hoping it will remain hot enough through the initial burn phase.

But you'll always have water forming in burning wood, and if you flow it over a surface cooler than 100 c, it'll condense.

I see no other way out other than further insulating the pipe. Not sure that (insulated chase at 2" clearance?) is allowed though (I suspect not).

I would make sure you empty the T before you let it cool down (to freezing) if you don't need the stove at some point. Don't want expanding ice to create cracks and leaks...


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> @Diabel
> Is your T insulated too?
> 
> If so, the only thing I can say is that it appears your chimney is not warm enough - that is, warm enough to avoid condensation. That means also that whenever your cat starts dying, the creosote will accumulate fast if you don't notice it quickly.
> 
> If you really don't need the heat in the home, running the stove a bit higher is not a good option. Then I suggest to really char long and high so that your chimney at least heats up well in the beginning, hoping it will remain hot enough through the initial burn phase.
> 
> But you'll always have water forming in burning wood, and if you flow it over a surface cooler than 100 c, it'll condense.
> 
> I see no other way out other than further insulating the pipe. Not sure that (insulated chase at 2" clearance?) is allowed though (I suspect not).
> 
> I would make sure you empty the T before you let it cool down (to freezing) if you don't need the stove at some point. Don't want expanding ice to create cracks and leaks...


Yes it is insulated. I am going to clean the pipe tomorrow and burn on high for 30min. I will also use hardwood as fuel. I believe the maple is 3-4yrs split/stacked and top covered. I will resplit one log and check the moisture. The high burn will be good for the firebox and glass.


----------



## charger4406

Have not burned much pin, but I have burned
some tamarack/larch and hemlock and found 
no difference in how clean it burned, although 
it was less than a cord.


----------



## bikedennis

Concern regarding my bypass.  Sirocco 30.2 have been using for about a month. Have not felt the "click" when closing the bypass just a little resistance.  I didn't give it a lot of thought.  Today, after reload there was an noticeable "click" as the handle fell into place. Was I burning with the cat exposed to danger and did I cause damage?


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> Concern regarding my bypass.  Sirocco 30.2 have been using for about a month. Have not felt the "click" when closing the bypass just a little resistance.  I didn't give it a lot of thought.  Today, after reload there was an noticeable "click" as the handle fell into place. Was I burning with the cat exposed to danger and did I cause damage?



This is an issue I have dealt with as well because I always want to keep things running well. First, when the stove is cool, reach up into the open bypass with your hand and sweep the gasket of any debris. I do this out of habit with every reload unless it's a very hot reload. If you have lots of junk up there in the cat chamber then it might be wise to remove the flue and vacuum it out from all sides of the bypass opening as though you had swept the chimney. 

Then when you open the bypass, kind of flip it back and forth a bit to center the bypass plate pins in the slots. 

Finally, yes, you want to feel a thunk, click, or cam over feeling when you close the bypass. If you don't feel and hear it then your bypass tension is too loose. This is adjustable by removing the flue and reaching in from above. Running with loose tension won't hurt anything but it is possible that some smoke could leak past the seal and not combust in the catalyst. 

When the bypass lever makes that "clunk" sound, you can actually see the bypass plate slide forward a little. It's a bit of a wonky, but apparently effective, mechanism.


----------



## bikedennis

Thanks for the response.  My only concern is this is a brand new stove and I didn't have the  "clunk" or "click" from day one so I doubt that it's debris. I assumed everything was OK until now I get the sound. Also I thought that the stove was smoking  out the chimney more than I thought that it should. Justified it saying to myself it must be mostly steam. No smoke now.  I  will check the tension.


----------



## Poindexter

I have to push down on the bypass lever to get the bypass door on my 30.0 to latch shut.  The first couple years I just flipped the lever over and let the weight of the bypass door on the gasket be the seal.

When my burn times started dropping, I think it was the third season with the stove, I learned about pushing down on the lever to make the bypass door latch "cam over."  Still using the  factory bypass door gasket here.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Is this a problem? Interior pipe is single wall. As you can see from the dust, there is enough space around the collar to where air is being sucked from the house into the pipe. It creates an audible whistling sound, especially when the fire is running hot. The stove seems to run fine, but the sound can be annoying.


----------



## stoveliker

You can crimp the end a bit more to get it farther in. If you don't need a collar adapter (others will be able to advise on that).


----------



## rdust

Current state





Yes, my t-stat has numbers.  No reason to be jealous.


----------



## Highbeam

rdust said:


> Current state
> 
> View attachment 286296
> View attachment 286297
> View attachment 286298


You and I have very similar setups. I too must spin the cat meter 180 degrees to provide clearance for the needle from the convection deck. I too have numbers on my stat and run at the same place for low burn, I too have a cool condar cat meter with numbers.


----------



## stoveliker

That's hot (which is why we have the stove, after all). New cat? (Apologies if I should have read previous pages again.) What is the outside temperature?

Why is the color visible in the holes not the same? Fly-ash issues?


----------



## rdust

stoveliker said:


> That's hot (which is why we have the stove, after all). New cat? (Apologies if I should have read previous pages again.) What is the outside temperature?
> 
> Why is the color visible in the holes not the same? Fly-ash issues?



Cat was new beginning of last season so shouldn’t be hyper active.  It’s in the low 40’s right now.  No idea on the cat color, guessing slight temp variations across the surface.<shrug>


----------



## Highbeam

I very often get different colors across the cat. Brighter to dark.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I very often get different colors across the cat. Brighter to dark.



Me too. But not from spot to spot as here. More gradual. So I was just wondering. Not a big deal; cat is hot, so stuff gets "eaten" and the system works.


----------



## kennyp2339

Happy Thanksgiving fellow hearther's wishing you all a fun day with friends and family.
Forecast is 52 today with no wind, burning coals down today and hopefully by tonight I'll have nothing but ash so I can do a good clean out (I think I did one 3 weeks ago) Cold windy weather coming for tomorrow, a clean firebox will be perfect. I have some gnarly uglies lined up for BK food - big maple knots and ash crotches are on the menu for tonight.


----------



## ohlongarm

MTASH said:


> I didn't even take the cover off, just shot the end of the shaft where it goes into the box with some spray lube .


Will that work?


----------



## Highbeam

ohlongarm said:


> Will that work?



The spring washer is on the thermostat knob shaft so if you can follow that shaft with the red tube far enough to deliver the liquid lube to the right place I bet you would achieve some immediate improvement. 

It might not last long and might drip down. Might stink when hot but it sure is quick and easy. Can’t hurt to try. I might try it next time. 

When antiseize dries it leaves a powder.


----------



## Alpine1

Happy thanksgiving to all forum members!


----------



## Diabel

Happy American Thanksgiving!

In Canada we had ours mid October.


----------



## MTASH

ohlongarm said:


> Will that work?


It made an immediate difference for me, nice and smooth.  I was being lazy and didn't want to remove the cover.

Edit: although I just noticed since I installed a fan kit I will have to remove the cover from now on.


----------



## lsucet

MTASH said:


> It made an immediate difference for me, nice and smooth.  I was being lazy and didn't want to remove the cover.
> 
> Edit: although I just noticed since I installed a fan kit I will have to remove the cover from now on.


Maybe still easier to remove the fan in that side. At least no worries about apply silicone to the cover like it should be.


----------



## Nealm66

stoveliker said:


> Me too. But not from spot to spot as here. More gradual. So I was just wondering. Not a big deal; cat is hot, so stuff gets "eaten" and the system works.


It’s from eye contact. Shouldn’t make eye contact with a cat. Happy thanksgiving!


----------



## ABMax24

Found this on Catalyst operation, sounds like 1600F is max operating temp to avoid flattening out the wash coat. Not sure if this applies to the BK cats:


----------



## stoveliker

Yes. It should be the same for BK cats.


----------



## BKVP

ABMax24 said:


> Found this on Catalyst operation, sounds like 1600F is max operating temp to avoid flattening out the wash coat. Not sure if this applies to the BK cats:
> 
> View attachment 286387
> 
> 
> View attachment 286388


That is a presentation I gave during promulgation of the 2015 NSPS.  The exposure threshold applies to all catalytic systems with same washcoat processes.


----------



## Highbeam

lsucet said:


> Maybe still easier to remove the fan in that side. At least no worries about apply silicone to the cover like it should be.


My BK had no silicone under the thermostat cover. There is silicone under the actual thermostat but that stays put.


----------



## ohlongarm

Highbeam said:


> Super easy and needed every couple of years.
> 
> Close the thermostat to max cold. Remove the thermostat cover. Locate the spring washer on the thermostat rod that provides tension. Finger on some high temp anti seize grease, work it in, turning the thermostat knob. You’ll feel it get smooth like buttah.
> 
> Then, close the thermostat back to full cold (closed flapper) and put the cover back on.


Can you describe how the cover comes off, I have zero minus mechanical abilities.


----------



## Alpine1

Interesting information. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## lsucet

Highbeam said:


> My BK had no silicone under the thermostat cover. There is silicone under the actual thermostat but that stays put.


I just removed one of my stoves cover and I thought it had silicone. Dry but it looks like silicone. I put just a little bit of it and put it back. Good to know I don't need it next time.


----------



## kennyp2339

@BKVP are the version 3 cats more stout? I only ask because sometimes I wonder what my exposed cat face temps are, usually I turn my r-stat down after an established fire is made, I get a lot of secondary re-burn in the firebox that lasts for a while, secondary reburn that lights off usually occurs after 1100deg f which means the cat can be experiencing 1000 - 1300deg f pretty regularly.


----------



## Highbeam

ohlongarm said:


> Can you describe how the cover comes off, I have zero minus mechanical abilities.





ohlongarm said:


> Can you describe how the cover comes off, I have zero minus mechanical abilities.



There are three screws on the cover, two black lower ones near the bottom edge and one silver one up a bit higher. 

Be sure that the thermostat is cranked to full cold for removal and installation. If you can’t handle this part then call your dealer. 

Remove the two lower black screws. Square drive. 

Lift off the cover. Depending on the guy assembling your stove that day the front of the cover might be stuck to the extra silicone that spooged out when he installed the thermostat.


----------



## kennyp2339

Just one of them days here, grey, damp, cold and windy. I went outside for bit earlier, came in for some lunch and turned the t-stat up a little on the princess. I will not be going back out again, wood stacking can wait for a nicer day.


----------



## Diabel

Came to the lake last eve. Loaded the Princess full of hemlock, after engaging the cat the plan was to let her rip for even 30min. After 20min the cat was pegged at max, flue temp was at 650 and the firebox looked like gates of hell!!
It felt a bit unnerving….reduced the air to about 2:00pm things settled very quickly.  The cat was very orange. I am sure it was in the 1600 territory


----------



## Diabel

Diabel said:


> Came to the lake last eve. Loaded the Princess full of hemlock, after engaging the cat the plan was to let her rip for even 30min. After 20min the cat was pegged at max, flue temp was at 650 and the firebox looked like gates of hell!!
> It felt a bit unnerving….reduced the air to about 2:00pm things settled very quickly.  The cat was very orange. I am sure it was in the 1600 territory


I am tempted to reload with just couple of splits and let it go through its full cycle


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> @BKVP are the version 3 cats more stout? I only ask because sometimes I wonder what my exposed cat face temps are, usually I turn my r-stat down after an established fire is made, I get a lot of secondary re-burn in the firebox that lasts for a while, secondary reburn that lights off usually occurs after 1100deg f which means the cat can be experiencing 1000 - 1300deg f pretty regularly.


Can you define stout in the context you are inquiring?


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> Came to the lake last eve. Loaded the Princess full of hemlock, after engaging the cat the plan was to let her rip for even 30min. After 20min the cat was pegged at max, flue temp was at 650 and the firebox looked like gates of hell!!
> It felt a bit unnerving….reduced the air to about 2:00pm things settled very quickly.  The cat was very orange. I am sure it was in the 1600 territory


New cat? I thought the stove's thermostat was supposed to protect against this, even when set wide open. The hypothesis that was mentioned was that the stove can't overfire.


----------



## stoveliker

I'm not sure that the gauge ("inactive" "active") allows to conclude the cat is too hot. I am sure (based on 20+ years of experience) that for the average customer it is very hard to near impossible to judge the temperature by the color. 

Yes, a new cat is often "overactive".


----------



## Highbeam

begreen said:


> New cat? I thought the stove's thermostat was supposed to protect against this, even when set wide open. The hypothesis that was mentioned was that the stove can't overfire.



So the question is whether a cat meter indicating a cat exhaust temperature above 1600 for even an instant is what the thermostat protects against. 

As we know, reducing the intake setting can actually increase cat meter temperatures. 

The thermostat doesn’t know what the cat meter is indicating, just what the actual stove temperature is.


----------



## stoveliker

The Tstat is too slow to prevent "an instant". Also, I think the overfiring protection that the Tstat provides is applicable to the stove (metal) integrity - which is generally an issue that has to do more with operation that is persistently too hot (as in half an hour or so). The cat is more sensitive to shorter time excursions that go over the limit. (But also here, the budget (the nine lives) is dictated by both temperature and time. The budget is just smaller than for the metal stove itself.)

I.e., I do think it is possible to kill a cat (sic)  more easily than to kill the (metal) stove by making the parts too hot.

"The actual stove temperature" does not exist as it's too variable for the different locations.


----------



## Diabel

Cat on its 4th (part-time) year. Naturally, I am not an expert. The only thing I can compare to is my sliver view of my VC cat’s colour (bright orange/yellow) and the Auber reading 1600. Last eve the BK colour was very much the same looking. Simple answer will be, I will bring the digital meter to the lake next time. 

I am also concerned about the flames hitting  the cat while in full blast (bypass closed) flames really lick the cat. Is that ok? In the clip posted earlier it say no no?


----------



## Diabel

Highbeam said:


> As we know, reducing the intake setting can actually increase cat meter


Sometimes scary with VC!!


----------



## stoveliker

I wondered about the flames licking the cat too.

Humans are notoriously bad at seeing a temperature someplace, seeing a color in another place, and then comparing them. A lot depends on the total light intensity (pupil dilation). 

How tall was your chimney? Would a damper be useful? (I.e. is your draft above the specced range?)


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> Can you define stout in the context you are inquiring?


Will the cat degrade after 1600deg f?


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> Will the cat degrade after 1600deg f?


1600F is a threshold temperature when the washcoat begins to flatten out.  It requires repeated exposure to significantly reduce efficacy.  Thermal degradation usually applies to the substrate itself.  Metal monolith substrates can tolerate much higher temperatures than 1600F.  Ceramic substrates can as well, but suffer thermal fracturing when metal do not.


----------



## Larch

kennyp2339 said:


> Will the cat degrade after 1600deg f?


During the last 10 to 15 minutes of initial high burn I have to pay attention I don't go past the active burn, my stove is only a couple  months old still so maybe  that's why. I was hoping I was worried to much but sounds like it is pretty bad to go over now. I've  also noticed that if I  look at cat on high burn the cat isn't super bright when it's past active zone, even has dull areas sometimes until  I  turn it down then it turns  super bright and the cat meter will will drop into active zone? Seems  strange dull looking cat is that hot


----------



## chemie

Hi All,
I was a newbie at the forum and got a lot of help from you guys. I’ve been away from it for a long time with pandemic and all but will check more often.


----------



## bikedennis

New Sirocco.  First few burns I felt no click when closing the bypass. Then shortly thereafter I felt some resistance at the end of the closing.  Now it seem that I have to push down hard on the lever to close at the end (it clunks) and also use considerable force to open when first opening. Do I have a problem or am I overly concerned?


----------



## kennyp2339

bikedennis said:


> New Sirocco.  First few burns I felt no click when closing the bypass. Then shortly thereafter I felt some resistance at the end of the closing.  Now it seem that I have to push down hard on the lever to close at the end (it clunks) and also use considerable force to open when first opening. Do I have a problem or am I overly concerned?


Lil light in the loafers, you got to push and pull that by-pass lever.


----------



## Nealm66

Mine clunks in and out of place but not much effort.


----------



## Diabel

Mine clunks shut very noticeably. Feel and sound.


----------



## Poindexter

Hey guys.  I pulled 52 hours last week in the four days I was 'allowed' to work, I am not keeping up good.

1.  "char" and "bake" as I think of them are two different processes.  A split on your rack in the garage has esentially infinite surface area with all the little hairs and so on.  Once a split is charred, thoroughly black, you can measure say 16 x 4 x 3 inches and say you have 192 sqin on fire on the one face of the one split.  When that same split first went into the stove it had infinity surface area and gave off a relative fornication ton of smoke when it first lit off.  Once it is thoroughly charred, the smoke output is based on the 192 sqin actively burning.

Char is what you do with the bypass door open so the cat doesn't choke.  Bake is what you do after the load is charred, bypass door closed and Tstat on high to get the remaining water (as vapor) out of the wood and out of the stack before you turn the Tstat down, to minimize creo-sicles.

For the hemlock, MC is key.  I have talked to Chris ( @BKVP ) about this a couple times.  BK bought me one beer through Chris and I later got a second beer purchased by my local dealer at Chris' direction. So two beers lifetime already, we talked about max Tstat and MC of the load both times, no more free beer for me until until my local dealer has a new owner.  If Chris is buying, order the most expensive beer on the menu, he can afford Lowenbrau.

Nationwide, most burners, no matter who made their stove, can just barely get to 20% MC, and that is what modern woodstoves are designed to burn.  The cutoff for BK stoves (seems) is around 12-13% MC.  If you got 12% MC fuel you can _probably_ finish your bake out in less than 30 minutes and turn down a bit sooner than the folks running 20%MC fuel.  You will need a flue gas probe, the kind that requires drilling a hole in your telecope to be sure.  If you are sitting on multiple cords at 12% MC or less, drop Chris a PM and he will hook you up with one of his engineers.  It is a total pain in the neck to burn this stuff.  My annual target is 14%MC.

If your hemlock or other fuel is at 13%MC or above, wide open raging, you aren't hurting the stove, you are looking at what I live with every January.  My target fuel is 14% MC and I have no problem running load after load after load at wide open throttle week after week in the depths of my winter.  Four hour burn time?  Reload.  Combustor the color of a theoretical celestial object but you are down to a few coals? Reload.  Wife in spandex pants that reach her ankles? Reload.  If your fuel is at or above 13%MC you will not hurt the stove running at wide open Tstat for weeks at a time.  If you have multiple cords at 12% or less reach out to BKVP for further instuction.


----------



## Poindexter

bikedennis said:


> New Sirocco.  First few burns I felt no click when closing the bypass. Then shortly thereafter I felt some resistance at the end of the closing.  Now it seem that I have to push down hard on the lever to close at the end (it clunks) and also use considerable force to open when first opening. Do I have a problem or am I overly concerned?


Might be worth a visit to a local BK dealer.  If you let go of the bypass lever and let the door close by gravity it is closed but not latched.  You want to latch it.


----------



## Niko

First off glad to be back have not posted in a long time so I hope everyone is doing ok.  

Any video or a better explanation of the bypass door gasket replacement then what I have read from BK website?


----------



## Highbeam

Niko said:


> First off glad to be back have not posted in a long time so I hope everyone is doing ok.
> 
> Any video or a better explanation of the bypass door gasket replacement then what I have read from BK website?


Just wondering, how do you know it needs to be changed?


----------



## ratsrepus

Highbeam said:


> Just wondering, how do you know it needs to be changed?


i think you were going to figure out how to remove the bypass flapper?   hows that going ?


----------



## jdonna

Looks like it's time for to replace the door gasket again.  I've been limping by fluffing the gasket, I think the last gasket I got from my dealer wasn't a high density, came off a roll.   I'm dreading removing the copious amount of silicone I used to bed it down.  HA. 

Can anyone confirm if Helcher's is selling the actual 7/8" high density gasket?  

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving, it's been a while since I have been on!


----------



## Highbeam

ratsrepus said:


> i think you were going to figure out how to remove the bypass flapper?   hows that going ?



I won’t attempt bypass plate removal until the cat is out due to wear which won’t happen until sometime in 2023! 

I’ve got a lot of cycles on the bypass gasket so I’m curious about why or whether it ever needs to be changed.


----------



## Larch

Highbeam said:


> Your chimney sounds fine. Double wall interior pipe would be an upgrade. I burn the same Doug fir fuel in a similar climate and never get water outside of the flue. How is this water escaping your flue? It should be built so that any liquid water runs down into your stove.
> 
> These BK stoves are very popular is Alaska, so the cold ambient temperatures are not a problem. Mostly because you will be burning a little hotter and flue temps should be higher.
> 
> Are you sure you’re running hot enough to keep the cat meter well into the active part of the gauge?


Well  I  just did the double wall  interior pipe you recommended and so far and it's a night and day difference for the water condensation in my chimney, thanks  highbeam I  new I should of replaced the single wall but you saying  it spurred me on.


----------



## Niko

Highbeam said:


> Just wondering, how do you know it needs to be changed?


Well haven't changed it since I bought the stove..   I fired up the stove a  coue of weeks ago and pretty much everything is going good until like in not sure the exact hours  maybe 2-4 hours later and the cat is in the inactive zone.  So today I disconnected everything from the stove and when I had the bypass open I saw the gasket and just thought of changing it.  But what I noticed also is the bypass door when closed actually had a little play in.  If I took my hand I could actually lift up on it a smidge, but I adjusted the screw on it and made her snugg so no movement.   I also took the steel cat out to inspect it.  The steel cat  only has 2 or 3 seasons on it and seem to have crowned a little as a 2x4 of lumber does.  I put high temp gasket around the opening of the cat and gasket to give it a better seal as I could see more of a opening towards the bottom where the side had a better seal to it. 

Fired the stove back up a little later and same chit cat dies out after a couple of hours.  Door gasket looks good put the dollar bill test passed everywhere except the side closest to the 2 hinges.  It's not loosey goosey but she does pull out. 

I guess a door gasket is next.


----------



## stoveliker

How many cords do you burn per season? For some 2-3 seasons is about the life of a cat.

I.e. are you sure it's something with the stove rather than the cat?


----------



## Niko

3 cords give or take..   I assumed the cat would last a lot longer then that..


----------



## Highbeam

Niko said:


> Well haven't changed it since I bought the stove..   I fired up the stove a  coue of weeks ago and pretty much everything is going good until like in not sure the exact hours  maybe 2-4 hours later and the cat is in the inactive zone.  So today I disconnected everything from the stove and when I had the bypass open I saw the gasket and just thought of changing it.  But what I noticed also is the bypass door when closed actually had a little play in.  If I took my hand I could actually lift up on it a smidge, but I adjusted the screw on it and made her snugg so no movement.   I also took the steel cat out to inspect it.  The steel cat  only has 2 or 3 seasons on it and seem to have crowned a little as a 2x4 of lumber does.  I put high temp gasket around the opening of the cat and gasket to give it a better seal as I could see more of a opening towards the bottom where the side had a better seal to it.
> 
> Fired the stove back up a little later and same chit cat dies out after a couple of hours.  Door gasket looks good put the dollar bill test passed everywhere except the side closest to the 2 hinges.  It's not loosey goosey but she does pull out.
> 
> I guess a door gasket is next.



I got extra short life from the one steel cat I tried. Right back to normal life with ceramic. I even did a full boil in vinegar trying to revive the steel cat but it had totally worn out.


----------



## kirzel35

New to the site.  Newish to wood stoves. I've used my MIL's wood stove insert and I've used standalone wood stoves before.

However, my husband and I are looking to have a wood burning stove insert installed in our fireplace. (We live in Texas be we recently survived the Snowmaggedon that collapsed the electricity grid, so we're trying to beef up various aspects of our house, and our house is old so we're doing so weathering proofing and the chimney is a bad one). The company that I called said they only install Blaze King and suggested the Ashford 25 . He said it would be $6,500.  I don't recall if that included install and all the extra lining and stuff that is needed to install it. But is that a normal price for Blaze King? Most wood stove inserts I could prices for were in the $1500-4000 range. Granted, this one does have a high efficiency rating that will quality for a  26% tax refund which is cool and all. It just seems awfully high.

Thanks in advance


----------



## bholler

kirzel35 said:


> New to the site.  Newish to wood stoves. I've used my MIL's wood stove insert and I've used standalone wood stoves before.
> 
> However, my husband and I are looking to have a wood burning stove insert installed in our fireplace. (We live in Texas be we recently survived the Snowmaggedon that collapsed the electricity grid, so we're trying to beef up various aspects of our house, and our house is old so we're doing so weathering proofing and the chimney is a bad one). The company that I called said they only install Blaze King and suggested the Ashford 25 . He said it would be $6,500.  I don't recall if that included install and all the extra lining and stuff that is needed to install it. But is that a normal price for Blaze King? Most wood stove inserts I could prices for were in the $1500-4000 range. Granted, this one does have a high efficiency rating that will quality for a  26% tax refund which is cool and all. It just seems awfully high.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I hope that is a complete installed price


----------



## BKVP

Call him back and ask what is included.  Assuming you'll need AF25, insulated liner with cap/termination,  block off plate and install labor.


----------



## Diabel

BKVP said:


> Call him back and ask what is included.  Assuming you'll need AF25, insulated liner with cap/termination,  block off plate and install labor.


Labour rates have gone up lots, misc. materials prices too. 6500 might not be too bad.


----------



## Bootjack

So I emailed BK and got no response. Thought I'd try this forum. 

My new Ashford handle hits the front of the stove when the door is swung closed IF the handle is in the down position. This has happened several times accidently even though we know to close the door with the handle in the up position. I am concerned that this could damage the cast iron front panel  eventually. It is hitting by about 1/8+". The handle can be adjusted down by loosening 4 small nuts. This should eliminate it hitting. My concern is will this adjustment alter how the door latches. 

Also, in the ash pan there are 4 studs like rivets. What are they for?


----------



## Bootjack

Superstar Ahhh you got it. The handle is a bit loose so it falls down on it's own. Looks like a simple fix by tightening the Allen head bolt. Curious though would lowering the latch affect the seal?  What about the 4 rivet studs in the ash pan? It looks like something is supposed to fit on them. A cover maybe?


----------



## SnowSnob

kirzel35 said:


> New to the site.  Newish to wood stoves. I've used my MIL's wood stove insert and I've used standalone wood stoves before.
> 
> However, my husband and I are looking to have a wood burning stove insert installed in our fireplace. (We live in Texas be we recently survived the Snowmaggedon that collapsed the electricity grid, so we're trying to beef up various aspects of our house, and our house is old so we're doing so weathering proofing and the chimney is a bad one). The company that I called said they only install Blaze King and suggested the Ashford 25 . He said it would be $6,500.  I don't recall if that included install and all the extra lining and stuff that is needed to install it. But is that a normal price for Blaze King? Most wood stove inserts I could prices for were in the $1500-4000 range. Granted, this one does have a high efficiency rating that will quality for a  26% tax refund which is cool and all. It just seems awfully high.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I priced BK Sirocco in WI and with install/lining its about $6500 before tax. But I checked only one dealer. The problem is they won't have it until Feb. LOL. I contacted BK to see if they can help me to locate one but they were absolutely useless. I would either drive or happy to pay $500 shipping fee to the dealer that stocks the unit.


----------



## BKVP

SnowSnob said:


> I priced BK Sirocco in WI and with install/lining its about $6500 before tax. But I checked only one dealer. The problem is they won't have it until Feb. LOL. I contacted BK to see if they can help me to locate one but they were absolutely useless. I would either drive or happy to pay $500 shipping fee to the dealer that stocks the unit.



Sorry you felt we were "useless".  We are not able to track which dealers have which models in stock.  Our website has a dealer lookup and if you use that tool you can locate dealers near you.  You should keep in mind that our warranties cover the parts and with some labor reimbursement to the servicing dealer.  We request that dealers only sell to areas they are able to service.  If you order a stove or go pick up a stove "x" miles away, you may wish to ask the dealer if they will be willing to drive to your home to service it (should it need it) or will you be required to make your own repairs.


----------



## ratsrepus

I defiantly tighten up the door the door handle,  not sure about the rivets, I opened my ash drawer and dont see what your talking about, if you can post a photo, that would help


----------



## ratsrepus

Bootjack said:


> Superstar Ahhh you got it. The handle is a bit loose so it falls down on it's own. Looks like a simple fix by tightening the Allen head bolt. Curious though would lowering the latch affect the seal?  What about the 4 rivet studs in the ash pan? It looks like something is supposed to fit on them. A cover maybe?


Ratsrepus, Superstar


----------



## SnowSnob

BKVP said:


> Sorry you felt we were "useless".  We are not able to track which dealers have which models in stock.  Our website has a dealer lookup and if you use that tool you can locate dealers near you.  You should keep in mind that our warranties cover the parts and with some labor reimbursement to the servicing dealer.  We request that dealers only sell to areas they are able to service.  If you order a stove or go pick up a stove "x" miles away, you may wish to ask the dealer if they will be willing to drive to your home to service it (should it need it) or will you be required to make your own repairs.


I made it clear I'm very much interested in your unit and willing to give my money to a dealer that stocks them since I want it this heating season and not the next. You as a company know who buys more than 1 unit at a time, vs me calling every single one and waste not just my but your dealers time. I'm sure other factors you mentioned affect this and make a ton of sense. But at the end of a day this forum convinced me on this insert and I can't get it in reasonable period of time. I get it- it's covid- etc etc.   Apologies if I hurt your feelings. I stated how I felt when I went an extra mile trying to spend my $ on your product and it didn't get me anywhere.


----------



## jdonna

SnowSnob said:


> I made it clear I'm very much interested in your unit and willing to give my money to a dealer that stocks them since I want it this heating season and not the next. You as a company know who buys more than 1 unit at a time, vs me calling every single one and waste not just my but your dealers time. I'm sure other factors you mentioned affect this and make a ton of sense. But at the end of a day this forum convinced me on this insert and I can't get it in reasonable period of time. I get it- it's covid- etc etc.   Apologies if I hurt your feelings. I stated how I felt when I went an extra mile trying to spend my $ on your product and it didn't get me anywhere.


Have you tried Woodland stove in Minneapolis?


----------



## jdonna

Digging up old info.... anyone got any updates on what the beta 3 cat is or was?


----------



## begreen

SnowSnob said:


> I made it clear I'm very much interested in your unit and willing to give my money to a dealer that stocks them since I want it this heating season and not the next. You as a company know who buys more than 1 unit at a time, vs me calling every single one and waste not just my but your dealers time. I'm sure other factors you mentioned affect this and make a ton of sense. But at the end of a day this forum convinced me on this insert and I can't get it in reasonable period of time. I get it- it's covid- etc etc.   Apologies if I hurt your feelings. I stated how I felt when I went an extra mile trying to spend my $ on your product and it didn't get me anywhere.


It's not just BK stoves. Materials shortages, steel prices, and high demand have hit the entire stove industry.


----------



## Highbeam

SnowSnob said:


> I made it clear I'm very much interested in your unit and willing to give my money to a dealer that stocks them since I want it this heating season and not the next. You as a company know who buys more than 1 unit at a time, vs me calling every single one and waste not just my but your dealers time. I'm sure other factors you mentioned affect this and make a ton of sense. But at the end of a day this forum convinced me on this insert and I can't get it in reasonable period of time. I get it- it's covid- etc etc.   Apologies if I hurt your feelings. I stated how I felt when I went an extra mile trying to spend my $ on your product and it didn't get me anywhere.



BK just doesn't keep track of dealer inventory so they can't tell you who has one on the shelf. It's really none of their business and I'm glad BK allows their dealers to keep actual inventory levels private. 

Another company that makes great stoves and sells direct is Woodstock. They cater to the consumer vs. the dealer so will be able to help you with inventory questions.


----------



## bholler

begreen said:


> It's not just BK stoves. Materials shortages, steel prices, and high demand have hit the entire stove industry.


I can get all the regency stoves I want just no doors


----------



## stoveliker

bholler said:


> I can get all the regency stoves I want just no doors



Regency fireplaces


----------



## ajzzara

Hello All, 
 I am new to the forum, to catalytic stoves and burning wood. I just got my BK Sirocco 25 insert installed yesterday. I did a quick burn, and the house got pretty smokey. Not sure if it was spillage or the chemicals are burning off the stove. I called BK this morning, and they told me it is normal to see some smoke for the first few burns. Has anyone experienced this? 

Also, for the people who load N/S, what are the lengths of the splits you are using? I know I can measure it, but I am not back at the house for a few weeks.

Lastly, my fireplace stone is uneven by design. I can see a few gaps around the stove that a custom shroud will cover. That said, If I put my hand near one of the lower openings, I can feel a slight draft. When I explained this to the installer, he said he didn’t feel it. Should I stuff some Rockwool in there and be done with it? 
Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## stoveliker

bholler said:


> I can get all the regency stoves I want just no doors



That's the same though with most products : SOME parts are in short supply, making one wait for the complete product to be available.


----------



## stoveliker

The smoke: yes. The paint made my basement"look blue*. This will be common for each fire that is hotter than the previous ones. Just follow the manual, by doing increasingly large fires. Open the windows (2 opposite if possible) while you cure the paint.

The other questions I have to defer to others. But the split lengths should be in the manual or brochure  that you can download from the BK site.


----------



## stoveliker

And welcome to wood burning and welcome to the forum.


----------



## BKVP

bholler said:


> I can get all the regency stoves I want just no doors


That is a problem for all of us!  We get ours from Belgium or Spain.  Docks are full, so full we have a container sitting off the coast waiting to be unloaded...may be 3 more weeks!


----------



## ajzzara

stoveliker said:


> And welcome to wood burning and welcome to the forum.


Thank you for the quick response!


----------



## stoveliker

stoveliker said:


> The smoke: yes. The paint made my basement"look blue*. This will be common for each fire that is hotter than the previous ones. Just follow the manual, by doing increasingly large fires. Open the windows (2 opposite if possible) while you cure the paint.
> 
> The other questions I have to defer to others. But the split lengths should be in the manual or brochure  that you can download from the BK site.


The brochure says a width of 20" in front, 18" in the back. So I'd go 17-17.5" or so E/W. 
Depth (N/S) is 16.75", so don't go larger than 16".
If you cut all your wood to 16", you'll be fine.


----------



## Tron

I always eyeball the split length. About a foot plus a little more. Yes, the firebox then has 2-3" room in the front near the glass, but so what?


----------



## mewop

BKVP said:


> That is a presentation I gave during promulgation of the 2015 NSPS.  The exposure threshold applies to all catalytic systems with same washcoat processes.



What are the usual max operating temperatures on a KE40? I am curious how much buffer temperature range we have from overfiring if our setup is overdrafting


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> I always eyeball the split length. About a foot plus a little more. Yes, the firebox then has 2-3" room in the front near the glass, but so what?



Precise cutting leads to more complete firebox filling which leads to longer burntimes and better utility. Also, it's easier to stack!

I use a mingo marker and get all of my wood to 16". This is a firewood industry standard and allows me to share, sell, or give away extra fuel.


----------



## Nealm66

Man, it’s sure been a mild winter here in the pnw so far. I can’t imagine what it would be like not being able to burn low and slow.


----------



## begreen

Nealm66 said:


> Man, it’s sure been a mild winter here in the pnw so far. I can’t imagine what it would be like not being able to burn low and slow.


Try a heat pump. This is ideal weather for it and our lower cost of electricity makes it a great fit. Ours has been loafing with these temps in the 50s. It usually only running in the low and quiet mode. It's supposed to get cooler tonight so stock up the wood bin.

PS: It's been so warm that we have daffodils that are already 8" tall and all our garlic has sprouted and is about 4" tall.


----------



## stoveliker

Or you could try to improve your burntime record. See how close you can get to the 30 hrs 

But I agree; 57 here today (), so I was planning on the heat pump (with even free-er electricity due to my solar net metering), but it's not even on...


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Or you could try to improve your burntime record. See how close you can get to the 30 hrs
> 
> But I agree; 57 here today (), so I was planning on the heat pump (with even free-er electricity due to my solar net metering), but it's not even on...



At some point, even the low burn rate is too much heat so 30 hours of low burn is way too much heat. We're still burning 3-4 split fires each night after trying to let the house cool down all day. It gets dark around 4 pm this far north so I can burn in stealth mode.  

If I had a heat pump, I admit, I would be using it. I burned in the shop last night too, it was 55 inside that building and this allowed my to have a fairly rip roaring fire to charge up the slab before temperatures drop.

Forecast is for many days of 30s at night. Much cooler and finally some lasting snow on the mountain.


----------



## Nealm66

I’ve gotten 30 hours easy with the Idaho press logs with a milder heat output as well. I still have a few but been burning Doug fir snags that I get for free and only had a couple days that got the house too hot. Way too hot lol. Be glad to see the cooler weather.  I’ve also been leaving the door open to the insulated 3car garage which helps a little. Got a classic mustang in there so don’t mind keeping it warm. Crazy how much heat a wood stove puts out.


----------



## SnowSnob

jdonna said:


> Have you tried Woodland stove in Minneapolis?


Thanks. Left them a VM!


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> At some point, even the low burn rate is too much heat so 30 hours of low burn is way too much heat. We're still burning 3-4 split fires each night after trying to let the house cool down all day. It gets dark around 4 pm this far north so I can burn in stealth mode.
> 
> If I had a heat pump, I admit, I would be using it. I burned in the shop last night too, it was 55 inside that building and this allowed my to have a fairly rip roaring fire to charge up the slab before temperatures drop.
> 
> Forecast is for many days of 30s at night. Much cooler and finally some lasting snow on the mountain.



At some point yes. But my point was that warmer than usual weather is a good time to play with the stove. The point where it doesn't make sense anymore differs for each home and occupant.


----------



## SnowSnob

Highbeam said:


> BK just doesn't keep track of dealer inventory so they can't tell you who has one on the shelf. It's really none of their business and I'm glad BK allows their dealers to keep actual inventory levels private.
> 
> Another company that makes great stoves and sells direct is Woodstock. They cater to the consumer vs. the dealer so will be able to help you with inventory questions.


I hear your point. Just like any business you make decisions. You can stock units, tie up your cash in inventory and hope they sell, thus taking the risk. Or play safe and order only if there is interest and hope customer can wait.  My dealer didn't even show me BK, and suggested non cat insert that cost even more, plus no tax credit. Members of this forum educated me on number of aspects, the dealer didn't take 5 min to discuss any of that. So I have no loyalty in this regard. 
Midwest sales rep at BK should know by heart what stores try to stock, I'm clearly wanted one and it should be fair for them give me 1-2 recommendations. Any who... Thanks for all the help and suggestions.


----------



## Nealm66

Crazy times. I just traded in my 3500 for a new one. I really didn’t want half the crap on the new one but you get what you get right now. Finally figured out how to turn the radio on. The fricking mirrors have electrical dimmer some how. Ya, that took a minute. I know it’s frustrating getting a good quality wood stove right now but man, everything is messed up. All I can say is if you can be patient you will be happy with a BK stove in my opinion


----------



## Nealm66

stoveliker said:


> At some point yes. But my point was that warmer than usual weather is a good time to play with the stove. The point where it doesn't make sense anymore differs for each home and occupant.


Would be a good time to play around with different types of wood for sure. I had a cotton wood blow over and I sliced it up and see if how it does just for curiosity. Definitely not something I would burn on a regular but it wasn’t really big


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> Would be a good time to play around with different types of wood for sure. I had a cotton wood blow over and I sliced it up and see if how it does just for curiosity. Definitely not something I would burn on a regular but it wasn’t really big



I've actually burned a lot of cottonwood in the BK and it does really well. The ash helps and it makes a lot of ash. You've got to dry it out of course. It also takes a lot of work to process that heavy green wood and you need a lot more of it to match the #s you get from fir. I'd prefer our cottonwood to western red cedar.

Some places in this nation, all they have to burn is cottonwood and those folks stay warm just fine. 

Congratulations on the new truck. I have a 2000 F350 diesel which has been the subject of a huge crime wave in our area. People are getting them stolen so much I'm afraid to leave it at the trailhead. They must be really easy to steal.


----------



## Highbeam

SnowSnob said:


> I hear your point. Just like any business you make decisions. You can stock units, tie up your cash in inventory and hope they sell, thus taking the risk. Or play safe and order only if there is interest and hope customer can wait.  My dealer didn't even show me BK, and suggested non cat insert that cost even more, plus no tax credit. Members of this forum educated me on number of aspects, the dealer didn't take 5 min to discuss any of that. So I have no loyalty in this regard.
> Midwest sales rep at BK should know by heart what stores try to stock, I'm clearly wanted one and it should be fair for them give me 1-2 recommendations. Any who... Thanks for all the help and suggestions.



When I picked my BK up at the lumber store the guys forked it down from way up high in a hay loft and set it right in my truck. I didn't have to wait to order one because this guy had room for inventory, but many BK dealers are very small shops.


----------



## bholler

You guys are missing the point.  This isn't about what shops want to stock or have room to stock.  The stoves just aren't available.


----------



## kennyp2339

mewop said:


> What are the usual max operating temperatures on a KE40? I am curious how much buffer temperature range we have from overfiring if our setup is overdrafting


250 deg stove top to 800 deg, that range is hard to wrap your head around considering the range the stove can operate. This is why its important to run the stove within spec of what BK suggests, Draft is key here, mainly because of the cat, when your running the stove the cat should top out at 1400 deg f max, at 1600 it starts to degrade (theres science stuff that I dont even want to type about past 1600 deg f) 
The cat becomes active when it hits 500 deg f, how that relates to stove top from what I seen is about 280 to 300 deg f stove top, no the experiment occurs, you could have a brand new cat that is over active and pegs the range of the cat probe but only see a 500 deg stove top or you have a 3 season cat that sits at noon on the cat probe but you have the t-stat set at 3 o'clock with flames and cruising at 650 deg stove top, Its all about your wood dryness, how new your cat is and heat setting of the T-stat. Now if your within the parameters of draft spec (.05wc ft) you could leave your t-stat wide open and burn, prob enter the gates of hell phase of the burn but the t-stat will close enough to keep the stove from over firing and damaging components. 
Now for the King, compared to my princess, it will burn the same at the same setting but because the king has more surface area it will let out more heat then the princess, your 25k btu's has a wider range of dispersant then my 25k btu's on the smaller princess model.


----------



## Nealm66

Highbeam said:


> I've actually burned a lot of cottonwood in the BK and it does really well. The ash helps and it makes a lot of ash. You've got to dry it out of course. It also takes a lot of work to process that heavy green wood and you need a lot more of it to match the #s you get from fir. I'd prefer our cottonwood to western red cedar.
> 
> Some places in this nation, all they have to burn is cottonwood and those folks stay warm just fine.
> 
> Congratulations on the new truck. I have a 2000 F350 diesel which has been the subject of a huge crime wave in our area. People are getting them stolen so much I'm afraid to leave it at the trailhead. They must be really easy to steal.


I know you’ve mentioned it before. Seems like if my memory serves, you mentioned it burning slightly hotter and faster? I know from doing tree service, you can’t pay to get rid of it. I’ve actually had some sawn into planks for a friend that has a lowboy truck to haul huge dozers for centralia steam plant. He said it was soft and the 6” grouzers will snap Doug fir but the soft cottonwood would take it


----------



## ABMax24

Highbeam said:


> I have a 2000 F350 diesel which has been the subject of a huge crime wave in our area. People are getting them stolen so much I'm afraid to leave it at the trailhead. They must be really easy to steal.



Yup, a good thief will be gone in under 30 seconds.

Put a battery isolator switch on each battery, and then shut them off when your not using the truck. Can't steal it if there's no power to start it.


----------



## Nealm66

Crazy times. This ones got the button start. Honks at me when I get out with the key in my pocket while it’s running lol.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> I've actually burned a lot of cottonwood in the BK and it does really well. The ash helps and it makes a lot of ash.


I currently have a lot of amber tree (rather prevalent around here in terms of hardwoods)  in my stash. Same thing, burns well but leaves a lot of ash. Even burning on low all the time, I have to clean out the ashes once a week because it's almost up to the door. But after I'm through that it's mostly pine.


----------



## Poindexter

bholler said:


> You guys are missing the point.  This isn't about what shops want to stock or have room to stock.  The stoves just aren't available.


@SnowSnob , I do think this is the fundamental problem.  Chris would be delighted to sell you a stove, but they are simply selling as fast as he can get them to the loading dock at the factory.  

Talking to one of my customers today, he wants a new Subaru.  The dealer has zero new vehicles on the lot, and everything scheduled to come in on or before March 1, 2022 is already sold.  He offered $8k over MSRP (his words not mine) and he was invited to call back on 01-03-2022 to see what was scheduled for delivery in April 2022.

BK makes a good burner.  When mine is wearing out I will order another one, no question.  I think I have a few years to go, but I will try to order the next one at whatever "soon enough" is to minimize service interuption in my home.  Lat time I talked to Chris, a very busy man, he was 10-12 weeks out.  If you have a backorder slip you will be in the pipeline and need to get busy stacking your fuel, I don't know of any BK that runs good on cordwood fuel over 20%MC.


----------



## kennyp2339

Poindexter said:


> Talking to one of my customers today, he wants a new Subaru. The dealer has zero new vehicles on the lot


Even worse... call a local auto parts store and ask for a oil filter for a subaru... results may be shocking, I know in NJ there are no oil changes going on if you own a Subaru since there are no oil filters available.


----------



## Nealm66

I read something the other day about Subaru really struggling. A buddy of mine in construction brags his up in slick conditions. He has a new Chevy 4x4 but says the Subaru is definitely the better for slick roads. Seems like anything that’s popular right now is hard to find


----------



## lsucet

Highbeam said:


> I've actually burned a lot of cottonwood in the BK and it does really well. The ash helps and it makes a lot of ash. You've got to dry it out of course. It also takes a lot of work to process that heavy green wood and you need a lot more of it to match the #s you get from fir. I'd prefer our cottonwood to western red cedar.
> 
> Some places in this nation, all they have to burn is cottonwood and those folks stay warm just fine.
> 
> Congratulations on the new truck. I have a 2000 F350 diesel which has been the subject of a huge crime wave in our area. People are getting them stolen so much I'm afraid to leave it at the trailhead. They must be really easy to steal.


I burn a lot of cottonwood. Just split it thick. Sometimes maybe I can just put four pieces and fill some gaps with small rounds from the branches.
That is still giving me a 24hrs schedule with lots of coals in the ashes for reloads. I learned to split big the kind of wood I get around here. That makes the trick. It is a pain to process it, more when green. Too much moisture. What I do is cut in rounds and leave it there for months before split it. That helps a lot. Just have to face the twisting and knots when splitting it. 
The reason why I went with a 40 tons splitter. Lol.
40 ton splitter don't care how twisted it is. It pops it open like nothing and .more if you let it dry for awhile first like I do.


----------



## Highbeam

lsucet said:


> I burn a lot of cottonwood. Just split it thick. Sometimes maybe I can just put four pieces and fill some gaps with small rounds from the branches.
> That is still giving me a 24hrs schedule with lots of coals in the ashes for reloads. I learned to split big the kind of wood I get around here. That makes the trick. It is a pain to process it, more when green. Too much moisture. What I do is cut in rounds and leave it there for months before split it. That helps a lot. Just have to face the twisting and knots when splitting it.
> The reason why I went with a 40 tons splitter. Lol.
> 40 ton splitter don't care how twisted it is. It pops it open like nothing and .more if you let it dry for awhile first like I do.



I think there is more than one type of cottonwood in North America also. Ours, until it gets really big, is sometimes very straight grained and thin barked. Looks like a nice maple and I’ve been confused when maple logs and cottonwood logs are piled together. Cottonwood does have a fibrous cut and weird smell though.


----------



## Nealm66

They peel the cotton wood saw logs around here and that’s the filler you see in plywood. Very low value logs. They’ll chip smaller logs but will only take a certain percentage on a log truck load. Most of the old log brides on old logging roads are cotton wood since there was no market. A road builder I cut right of way for replaced a ton of them for fish passage culverts. They get huge here in the pnw. I’ve fell them 6’ in and I’ve heard they can reach 8’. The first log is a stove pipe and super heavy. When it’s milled it does harden and turn white with a lot of character. Sucks up stain very good. Not sure why it doesn’t make furniture grade like alder


----------



## logfarmer

I found a good deal on this BK king! Been wanting one for a long time now and couldn’t pass this one up. Really was looking to get a princess but I couldn’t let the king get away. I’ve had it burning since Tuesday night and so far I absolutely love it. Bought a new cat for it since the other one was 16 yrs old…it was shot!


----------



## begreen

Congratulations. It looks to be in good shape. Nice find.


----------



## rdust

Full load


----------



## stoveliker

Two by four cut offs to start the stove before the night reload. I guess I put too much in. Again.


----------



## logfarmer

Just starting a new fire this evening, was almost 70 today😅


----------



## Larch

Any body ever burn straight paper birch for the season in there blaze king, I have about  6 cords cut and planned for 2 years from now. I've burned a fair  bit in a pacific energy but always mixed with something  else. Seemed like more ash built up. Wondering if straight birch does produce alot of ash?


----------



## ohlongarm

rdust said:


> Full load
> 
> View attachment 286984


What wood are you burning, anything dry burns well in a king.


----------



## Poindexter

Larch said:


> Any body ever burn straight paper birch for the season in there blaze king, I have about  6 cords cut and planned for 2 years from now. I've burned a fair  bit in a pacific energy but always mixed with something  else. Seemed like more ash built up. Wondering if straight birch does produce alot of ash?



Mixed birch is the preferred BK fuel up here.  I am an outlier running spruce only, but I can get the spruce cheaper per BTU since (almost) everyone one else is trying to buy birch.  I have run mixed birch/spruce for I think two seasons before switching to spruce only.

I really like the consistency, the predictability, of having unform fuel over the course of the entire season, and now year after year.  There is less guess work involved in knowing what the stove will be doing a few hours from now.

I think there are seven species of birch that grow in Alaska but only five that grow this far north.  The one thing about birch, compared to spruce, is the coaling stage lasts a really long time with birch.  That is good in the shoulder seasons when I don't need a lot of BTU per hour, but problematic in really cold weather when I want lots of BTUs per hour.  

The last year I was running mixed birch/spruce we had a pretty significant cold snap, I think our daytime highs didn't get above -42dF for about 9 days.  I literally brought a metal trashcan into the house, shoveled live birch coals out of my fire box to make room for spruce, dumped the coals into the snow on one of the garden beds and I haven't bought anymore birch since then.

With spruce, shorter window to do a hot reload on live coals, but I can maintain a much higher BTU output for days at a time as long as I can hit the reload windows.  Depends on your (our) insulaton envelope and outdoor ambients and desired indoor temp, but if it never got below abut -25dF up here, in the house I own now, I would be comfortable running birch for the entire heating season.

Or you can have a small stash of dry softwood for the coldest two weeks...


----------



## John Galt

I finally received my manometer (Dwyer 2000-00) and got it installed. At a really hot burn, it read .14 with a fully closed damper.  As a recap... The flue is 32' straight, ICC Ultrablack pipe, a damper 12" off the stove with washers covering the cute "ICC" cut outs inside, and then adjustable pipe to the support box.

I had the thermostat fully open, the damper closed, the bypass closed and the draft was great and steady at .05 for 15 minutes.  After 30 minutes it had climbed and I had to shut down the thermostat since the cat was pegged.

Obviously a second damper is required unless I have done something horribly wrong. Should this go directly on top of the first or at the support box? I believe those are my two options with the adjustable pipe. The ceiling is 9'. Once the fire has died down, what should the draft reading be?


----------



## Highbeam

John Galt said:


> I finally received my manometer (Dwyer 2000-00) and got it installed. At a really hot burn, it read .14 with a fully closed damper.  As a recap... The flue is 32' straight, ICC Ultrablack pipe, a damper 12" off the stove with washers covering the cute "ICC" cut outs inside, and then adjustable pipe to the support box.
> 
> I had the thermostat fully open, the damper closed, the bypass closed and the draft was great and steady at .05 for 15 minutes.  After 30 minutes it had climbed and I had to shut down the thermostat since the cat was pegged.
> 
> Obviously a second damper is required unless I have done something horribly wrong. Should this go directly on top of the first or at the support box? I believe those are my two options with the adjustable pipe. The ceiling is 9'. Once the fire has died down, what should the draft reading be?



Your questions are good and probably why I don’t have a manometer. They just create more questions. Another gauge to obsess with.


----------



## Highbeam

Came home from the Christmas parade in small town tonight. Standing in the dark and rain at 39 F for two hours. Came home to a 78 degree house and it felt great. I need to remember not to take for granted how great it is to have a wood stove with a thermostat and very long burns. There’s no futzing with the load to get it just right, there is confidence that the intake will be adjusted automatically to keep a safe, clean, constant burn and comfortable home without any needed interaction. All dang day. 

Anyway, still happy with the BK!


----------



## kennyp2339

John Galt said:


> I finally received my manometer (Dwyer 2000-00) and got it installed. At a really hot burn, it read .14 with a fully closed damper.  As a recap... The flue is 32' straight, ICC Ultrablack pipe, a damper 12" off the stove with washers covering the cute "ICC" cut outs inside, and then adjustable pipe to the support box.
> 
> I had the thermostat fully open, the damper closed, the bypass closed and the draft was great and steady at .05 for 15 minutes.  After 30 minutes it had climbed and I had to shut down the thermostat since the cat was pegged.
> 
> Obviously a second damper is required unless I have done something horribly wrong. Should this go directly on top of the first or at the support box? I believe those are my two options with the adjustable pipe. The ceiling is 9'. Once the fire has died down, what should the draft reading be?


John, where are you taking the measurement? Above or below the damper? If its above you might be getting a false reading since its daylighted to the cap, if its below the damper then monitor for a bit before adding a second. 
I was at .18wc before adding my dampers, I did 2 of them and had the same issue with the telescoping dvl pipe, so I added one damper right off the flue collar on the stove and the second damper about a foot away from the ceiling support box which allows me to lift the pipe out when I do my chimney maintenance. 
I primarily use the upper damper the most, I took readings after and got the stove draw down to .08wc on high burn which was night and day for me, I'll use the flue collar damper during storms when it blows out of the NE. 
Even with the damper fully closed I will peg my cat probe at 3 - 4 o'clock, running a second full season on that cat and have had no issues with degrading it and my stack plume is non existent, unless I'm reloading you cant tell that I'm burning, occasionally a smoke odor here and there, but no smoke or even steam, they stove pre-damper would make larger coals but it didnt feel as warm, post damper I burn basically all the way down to ash and the stove top is 2x hotter then before.


----------



## John Galt

kennyp2339 said:


> John, where are you taking the measurement? Above or below the damper? If its above you might be getting a false reading since its daylighted to the cap, if its below the damper then monitor for a bit before adding a second.
> I was at .18wc before adding my dampers, I did 2 of them and had the same issue with the telescoping dvl pipe, so I added one damper right off the flue collar on the stove and the second damper about a foot away from the ceiling support box which allows me to lift the pipe out when I do my chimney maintenance.
> I primarily use the upper damper the most, I took readings after and got the stove draw down to .08wc on high burn which was night and day for me, I'll use the flue collar damper during storms when it blows out of the NE.
> Even with the damper fully closed I will peg my cat probe at 3 - 4 o'clock, running a second full season on that cat and have had no issues with degrading it and my stack plume is non existent, unless I'm reloading you cant tell that I'm burning, occasionally a smoke odor here and there, but no smoke or even steam, they stove pre-damper would make larger coals but it didnt feel as warm, post damper I burn basically all the way down to ash and the stove top is 2x hotter then before.


The measurement is below the damper. A wise #bholler once said "Draft measured on stove side of damper, temp on the chimney side" I wrote that down.  
 It would be a shame if I have to sit in the basement watching a fire and sipping whisky just to ensure the draft isn't too high. I need to borrow a dog from someone. I'll run some more tests before dropping in another damper. Thanks.


----------



## logfarmer

Have a question for you BK experts, I added wood this evening after a 20hr+burn opened up everything and added 5 pieces of wood. Charred wood good and shut everything down, we have 20-30 mph winds right now and my stove got pretty warm. When I added wood my cat was still active at about 11 o’clock, should I have shut it down sooner than I did to prevent it from getting so warm?For the 20 hr burn my stat was set at 1.75 and I have not tried to set it any lower yet, still learning the stove and that’s all the heat I needed anyhow. I set it to 1.5 and is still burning warm and drafting strong. Afraid to cut it back much more in case the wind stops and I stall the stove. What are your thoughts?!


----------



## Poindexter

@logfarmer   Leave it high enough for about 30 minutes to get the moisture baked out of new fuel.  If you turn it down too far too fast you will end up with water condensing on the inside of your chimney pipe, then tar sticks to the water and you got creosote.  Once the new fuel is baked down to 0.0% MC you can turn it down as far as you want.

When the wind stops, turn the Tstat back up to keep it from stalling.  

Every install is different, but those are the basics.


----------



## moresnow

logfarmer said:


> Have a question for you BK experts, I added wood this evening after a 20hr+burn opened up everything and added 5 pieces of wood. Charred wood good and shut everything down, we have 20-30 mph winds right now and my stove got pretty warm. When I added wood my cat was still active at about 11 o’clock, should I have shut it down sooner than I did to prevent it from getting so warm?For the 20 hr burn my stat was set at 1.75 and I have not tried to set it any lower yet, still learning the stove and that’s all the heat I needed anyhow. I set it to 1.5 and is still burning warm and drafting strong. Afraid to cut it back much more in case the wind stops and I stall the stove. What are your thoughts?!


Curious? Was your home calling for more heat when the stove was still running with the cat gauge at the 11 o'clock position? Or did you reload at that time for convenience?


----------



## ajzzara

stoveliker said:


> The brochure says a width of 20" in front, 18" in the back. So I'd go 17-17.5" or so E/W.
> Depth (N/S) is 16.75", so don't go larger than 16".
> If you cut all your wood to 16", you'll be fine.


Thank you for the information, and the quick response! I really appreciate it!


----------



## firefighterjake

Poindexter said:


> @SnowSnob , ..
> 
> Talking to one of my customers today, he wants a new Subaru.  The dealer has zero new vehicles on the lot, and everything scheduled to come in on or before March 1, 2022 is already sold.  He offered $8k over MSRP (his words not mine) and he was invited to call back on 01-03-2022 to see what was scheduled for delivery in April 2022.
> 
> ...



Wife and I bought a new Crosstrek Sport and actually got a good deal on it . . . the caveat being I had to call around and finally found a single dealership willing to offer up a decent price AND we had to order it. Ordered in July, arrived in September . . . which wasn't a big deal for us as we were able to order up exactly what we wanted. Bonus was being able to sell her Legacy at a very good price through CarMax which gave us a hefty chunk of change to put down on the new car. 

Then again . . . things are much, much different in Alaska when it comes to vehicles as I know you guys pay a premium.


----------



## Woody5506

Lately I've been considering a second stove for the main level of my house. It would heat my living room, kitchen, and ideally upstairs bedrooms enough to barely need my gas furnace. It's a split level home, so there's really no way my current stove and placement would heat the entire place, but it does well for the entire downstairs. I have a T5 which I love and my first thought was to get a second one since I'm so familiar with using them now but now the idea of a cat stove makes more sense, being able to adjust the thermostat and all seems pretty desirable especially being on the main living floor of the house. a T5 would probably heat us out of the area or we'd be cracking doors/windows at the very least. 

I already know a BK would be a good option but my question is how much smoke do they put out the chimney on those long, low burns? I recall threads in the past of people complaining about the smoke, or creosote build up, etc.  Whether that's a symptom of wet wood or just the nature of a super slow long burn is what I don't exactly know being that I've never used a cat stove. Basically I just don't want to be smoking out my neighbor to the north of me since this chimney would be close to the front of his house, even though he's a fellow wood burner and hoarder for his fireplace but I still have to be considerate here in my neighborhood because I do burn 24/7. My other chimney is on the other side of the back of the house so it's well out of the way of the neighbors and typically the prevailing west wind just carries the startup smoke through the backyard where I don't have neighbors behind me.

The other question is how do they do with short chimneys? My guess is the chimney I'd need would be 14' at most, pretty much the same as the T5 which I do consider an easy breathing stove. I have a feeling the BK's would require a bit more draft though. I'd also assume an outdoor air kit being used on this stove, unlike my T5 which at the time my dealer claimed wasn't necessary.


----------



## stoveliker

14 ft would be (too) short. Recommended is at least 15 ft (if insulated and straight up).

Creosote should not be a problem if your wood is dry, you char the load (bake out remaining moisture while having a hot chimney), and your set up is good.

Not all cat stoves have an even output, especially at low burn rates. It is the Tstat of the BK that gives that desirable control over the output.


----------



## kennyp2339

logfarmer said:


> Have a question for you BK experts, I added wood this evening after a 20hr+burn opened up everything and added 5 pieces of wood. Charred wood good and shut everything down, we have 20-30 mph winds right now and my stove got pretty warm. When I added wood my cat was still active at about 11 o’clock, should I have shut it down sooner than I did to prevent it from getting so warm?For the 20 hr burn my stat was set at 1.75 and I have not tried to set it any lower yet, still learning the stove and that’s all the heat I needed anyhow. I set it to 1.5 and is still burning warm and drafting strong. Afraid to cut it back much more in case the wind stops and I stall the stove. What are your thoughts?!


You need to play around with your stove some more, I can not give specific advice here because all drafts are different, best advice I can give is reload a full fire box, get the pieces burning well then start shutting the T-stat down in increments until your comfortable without the stove stalling the load. 
If you look at your T-stat knob think of a clock, if you turn the knob straight up and down thats 12 o'clock or noon, many of us here will run between 1 - 3 o'clock, for myself. my sweet spot in the heart of winter is 2 o'clock with the blower running on low, right now since we're still in fall mode of mid 20's at night and 40 during the day so I load the stove to the gills, let it rip at max for 20 min then turn the t-stat down to 1 o'clock, that gives me no flames, dirty glass with a glowing cat, more importantly the house only goes to 72 / 73 deg f and wont fall below 70 deg f for 20hrs, even when temps dip to the upper 20's.


----------



## Highbeam

Woody5506 said:


> Lately I've been considering a second stove for the main level of my house. It would heat my living room, kitchen, and ideally upstairs bedrooms enough to barely need my gas furnace. It's a split level home, so there's really no way my current stove and placement would heat the entire place, but it does well for the entire downstairs. I have a T5 which I love and my first thought was to get a second one since I'm so familiar with using them now but now the idea of a cat stove makes more sense, being able to adjust the thermostat and all seems pretty desirable especially being on the main living floor of the house. a T5 would probably heat us out of the area or we'd be cracking doors/windows at the very least.
> 
> I already know a BK would be a good option but my question is how much smoke do they put out the chimney on those long, low burns? I recall threads in the past of people complaining about the smoke, or creosote build up, etc.  Whether that's a symptom of wet wood or just the nature of a super slow long burn is what I don't exactly know being that I've never used a cat stove. Basically I just don't want to be smoking out my neighbor to the north of me since this chimney would be close to the front of his house, even though he's a fellow wood burner and hoarder for his fireplace but I still have to be considerate here in my neighborhood because I do burn 24/7. My other chimney is on the other side of the back of the house so it's well out of the way of the neighbors and typically the prevailing west wind just carries the startup smoke through the backyard where I don't have neighbors behind me.
> 
> The other question is how do they do with short chimneys? My guess is the chimney I'd need would be 14' at most, pretty much the same as the T5 which I do consider an easy breathing stove. I have a feeling the BK's would require a bit more draft though. I'd also assume an outdoor air kit being used on this stove, unlike my T5 which at the time my dealer claimed wasn't necessary.



Once everything is up to temperature and you are in that long and low cruise that these things are famous for, the smoke is minimized. That is the least smokey time. When you start up a cold stove, the smoke can be super bad like a freight train even with 12% MC wood. Not just as bad as everything else but way worse than your T5 noncat and for longer. If you keep this cat stove hot then this cold stove warm up smoke is not nearly as much of an issue. I do my best to start fires after dark. Many folks try methods to minimize this problem but that's because it's a problem. 

Cat stoves running on low is when they are most efficient and have the lowest emissions. The cat has more time to munch on the slow moving smoke. It's pretty great and very comfortable. With my softwoods, I still have something visible like a blue haze every so often. Creosote is not a problem. 

Burning or adding any new stove with extremely close and down wind neighbors is very risky. I like burning wood but if I lived that close to someone I would worry about being a good neighbor.


----------



## kennyp2339

@Woody5506 not all cat stoves are created equal, BK's lines just so happen to have large cats that transfer heat to the stove top, where other stoves may have something similar and some have them located away (VC down drafts) 
For a shorter flue I'd do research on the princess, its on of the easier breather stoves from the BK line that runs on a 6" chimney. As far as smoke, when I'm cruising dark box mode I dont have any smoke, but I do have a wood burning odor, at hiring burn rates I occasionally have a light smoke that comes out, but that when the t-stat is exercising, normally the princess is just boring, load it up, get it flaming good then turn it down to your heat level you want, come back 12, 16, 20 hrs later and reload.


----------



## logfarmer

moresnow said:


> Curious? Was your home calling for more heat when the stove was still running with the cat gauge at the 11 o'clock position? Or did you reload at that time for convenience?


Was more for convenient, but my stove has not been that warm since I bought it last wk kind of lost control of it in a way!


----------



## logfarmer

kennyp2339 said:


> You need to play around with your stove some more, I can not give specific advice here because all drafts are different, best advice I can give is reload a full fire box, get the pieces burning well then start shutting the T-stat down in increments until your comfortable without the stove stalling the load.
> If you look at your T-stat knob think of a clock, if you turn the knob straight up and down thats 12 o'clock or noon, many of us here will run between 1 - 3 o'clock, for myself. my sweet spot in the heart of winter is 2 o'clock with the blower running on low, right now since we're still in fall mode of mid 20's at night and 40 during the day so I load the stove to the gills, let it rip at max for 20 min then turn the t-stat down to 1 o'clock, that gives me no flames, dirty glass with a glowing cat, more importantly the house only goes to 72 / 73 deg f and wont fall below 70 deg f for 20hrs, even when temps dip to the upper 20's.


Yes I will need to mess with the stove for a bit to learn each other! I’ve been burning at about 1:30-2 o’clock which gives me a STT of 400* and outdoor temp has been in the 50’s and upper 30’s at night which has left the house comfortable for her liking. My 20hr burn was on 6 average size splits, I have yet to load the king completely full well not even half full to be honest!


----------



## Highbeam

logfarmer said:


> Yes I will need to mess with the stove for a bit to learn each other! I’ve been burning at about 1:30-2 o’clock which gives me a STT of 400* and outdoor temp has been in the 50’s and upper 30’s at night which has left the house comfortable for her liking. My 20hr burn was on 6 average size splits, I have yet to load the king completely full well not even half full to be honest!



I always thought it would be great to have a king in an appropriately sized house running on low and just top it off with fuel whenever it was convenient. Like the fuel tank in my truck, I don't let it run out but prefer to keep it topped off.


----------



## crstrode

Is there a way to verify proper calibration of the combustor thermometer?  

(BK Sirocco Insert here)


----------



## Highbeam

crstrode said:


> Is there a way to verify proper calibration of the combustor thermometer?
> 
> (BK Sirocco Insert here)



The insert uses that remote electric one with the red color right?


----------



## MissMac

Poindexter said:


> I would be ecstatic to be going into January with a hyperactive combustor - but we are going into December.
> 
> I am on call, again, tomorrow night, but will try to keep an eye here over the long weekend.  I am going to have to do about 16 hours Friday since I am not allowed to see people on Thursday (woo-hoo) but there are no idiots on staff at our local BK dealer that I know of.
> 
> When you open the loading door, fill it to the rafters, bake it on high for 30 minutes once you have the combustor engaged, and you should do fine.  Did you air dry your fuel or get kilned dried fuel from either of Aurora or Big Mike?


Hey @Poindexter what do you personally use as your line in the sand to replace your cat?  I'm on my original (4 winters), and I figure that i've put a solid 11000+ hrs on it.  I keep thinking I should replace it, but it lights off like a boss on cold starts, and glows like a champ on/off during the burn cycle.  So, it seems like it would be a waste to replace?  Can the burn times/heat be degrading while still having such a glowing cat?


----------



## shgRUSS

First quarter review of my new Princess 32 with 19’ straight shot chimney (4’ is dvl telescoping)
    Overall very happy with the quality and operation of the stove.  Black box and hyper cat is instantly addictive.  I run spruce or aspen.  I noticed weather makes a big difference with characteristics for operation.  High pressure(30.2inhg⬆️)makes the stove burn lazy: steady to slow rolling flames on high, turn dial down to coast and fire will black box very quickly.  Low pressure (29.7inhg⬇️) high is turbulent to frantic with wind, turn dial down to coast and get secondary flames for minutes. Colder temps amplify these results. Warmest I have ran the stove 55*f (windy cloudy drizzling), coldest -37*f (calm and clear).  Run time with 5 16” long 6”-10”spruce splits  with house steady @72*f  and no sun shine: Warm (40*f⬆️) outside is around 24hrs,  cold (-30*f⬇️) outside is 10hrs. Wind will change these accordingly to extra heat loss on house.  Ultra High to low pressure will change my lowest dial position: 
   - high, cold, calm, 3oclock
   - low, cold, windy ride the hole               indefinitely 
These are based on the cat probe staying a third above active till load is depleted.  Other observations: I can not run a long bake on a hot reload, 10 min max, the house gets too hot and the load loses extended burn times.  Stove loves a hot reload with 4” of hot coals under fresh wood, char and bake are very short (5-7minutes).  Only big complaint was the initial paint cure smell and haze, it was pretty harsh.  I thought I was prepared with a couple windows open but ended up with all windows open and fans blowing air in and out of the house.  I would not of wanted to do this in the middle of winter. Thoughts? Advice? Comments?  I figured I would do a review for anyone looking to purchase or just getting a new Princess rolling.


----------



## stoveliker

I agree with your charring remark. I also see my flue probe reaching above 900 deg F in 10 minutes fully open. Even when outside temps are 40 F.

Given the advice to bake for 20-30 minutes, I have resorted to baking at a Tstat setting around 4.30 rather than a fully open 6 pm. And then still only 15-20 minutes because of lower burning times.

My chimney is taller though at 27' (outside plus 2 ft inside, but has 2 90 deg elbows and a horizontal run of 2.5-3 ft).


----------



## TheElementalCashew

My thermostat doesn't seem to keep the stove running consistently. The sweet spot is right around "2 o'clock" when it runs well, but I have to make minute adjustments especially early on. Just a tad too low, and the fire will lower itself into the inactive zone. A tad too high, and I'll come back to a box full of flames running way too hot. I don't mind having to make some adjustments, but we've had the stove snuff itself out overnight, or burn itself out too quickly and wake up to a cold stove. I know there are tons of variables here, but I would have thought large adjustments would be the problem, not these tiny, tiny adjustments I have to make. 

Seems hit or miss, but if I have time to fuss with it for a while, eventually the stove will settle down and run as expected, giving us 12-15 hour burns that keep the house warm. 

I guess I was under the impression that the thermostat would open the air a bit more when the stove start dying, or close the air if it started running hotter. "2 o'clock" does seem to be the right spot for it to cruise with just the right amount of air, but the first hour or so I just can't get it to run consistently.


----------



## stoveliker

MissMac said:


> Hey @Poindexter what do you personally use as your line in the sand to replace your cat?  I'm on my original (4 winters), and I figure that i've put a solid 11000+ hrs on it.  I keep thinking I should replace it, but it lights off like a boss on cold starts, and glows like a champ on/off during the burn cycle.  So, it seems like it would be a waste to replace?  Can the burn times/heat be degrading while still having such a glowing cat?


Not Poindexter here, but I'd think that if the cat lights off, and you don't see smoke (i.e. cat is not just glowing from the heat flowing through it), and your chimney remains as clean as it was in your first season with good wood (I'd check it at least once mid season at this age), then I'd leave it be. No indications it's not working.

However, I would order a new one to have it on hand for when you need it (and given the current supply issues).


----------



## shgRUSS

TheElementalCashew said:


> My thermostat doesn't seem to keep the stove running consistently. The sweet spot is right around "2 o'clock" when it runs well, but I have to make minute adjustments especially early on. Just a tad too low, and the fire will lower itself into the inactive zone. A tad too high, and I'll come back to a box full of flames running way too hot. I don't mind having to make some adjustments, but we've had the stove snuff itself out overnight, or burn itself out too quickly and wake up to a cold stove. I know there are tons of variables here, but I would have thought large adjustments would be the problem, not these tiny, tiny adjustments I have to make.
> 
> Seems hit or miss, but if I have time to fuss with it for a while, eventually the stove will settle down and run as expected, giving us 12-15 hour burns that keep the house warm.
> 
> I guess I was under the impression that the thermostat would open the air a bit more when the stove start dying, or close the air if it started running hotter. "2 o'clock" does seem to be the right spot for it to cruise with just the right amount of air, but the first hour or so I just can't get it to run consistently.


I found a good 4” of hot coals under a fresh reload really help keep the burn steady. My thoughts are there is enough heat to keep the new wood smouldering and feed the cat


----------



## shgRUSS

stoveliker said:


> I agree with your charring remark. I also see my flue probe reaching above 900 deg F in 10 minutes fully open. Even when outside temps are 40 F.
> 
> Given the advice to bake for 20-30 minutes, I have resorted to baking at a Tstat setting around 4.30 rather than a fully open 6 pm. And then still only 15-20 minutes because of lower burning times.
> 
> My chimney is taller though at 27' (outside plus 2 ft inside, but has 2 90 deg elbows and a horizontal run of 2.5-3 ft).


Yes exactly, I usually lower to 5 or 430 so the rocket ship launch is regulated a bit. I think type and condition of wood may also play a role in the bake cycle also


----------



## WoodFire89

Good morning,

I have a Princess PE 32 (SN-28.1901) Purchased in 2020. This season i have started experiencing the smoke smell with cat engaged as discussed in the forum. I see a fix from Blaze King is to replace the stud & nut assembly holding the door glass in with a low-profile button head screw.

I am curious if this is applicable to the princess pe32 as well?

Last season i experienced no smell with good burn times and draft properties.
I have been researching and reading through the forums and other online chats to try and find some type of understanding or direction. The smell comes from the hinge side of the door (left side) with the smell very strong at the top left corner. Latch has been adjusted, dollar bill test performed, chimney inspected and cleaned, etc... all the suggested actions have been taken. it is a beautiful stove and heats very well, the smoke smell is concerning, from a safety standpoint.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

shgRUSS said:


> I found a good 4” of hot coals under a fresh reload really help keep the burn steady. My thoughts are there is enough heat to keep the new wood smouldering and feed the cat



Good point. With the weather being all over the place, I have had very few hot reloads this year.


----------



## begreen

Baking time is relative to the size and heat of the coal bed and the dryness of the wood. Very dry softwood is going to outgas rapidly on a 4" hot coal bed whereas 20% hardwood on a moderate 2" coal bed might need 20 minutes. 



shgRUSS said:


> Only big complaint was the initial paint cure smell and haze, it was pretty harsh. I thought I was prepared with a couple windows open but ended up with all windows open and fans blowing air in and out of the house. I would not of wanted to do this in the middle of winter. Thoughts?


That surprised me. I thought the new (German?) paint was not supposed to do this on BK stoves.


----------



## begreen

WoodFire89 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I have a Princess PE 32 (SN-28.1901) Purchased in 2020. This season i have started experiencing the smoke smell with cat engaged as discussed in the forum. I see a fix from Blaze King is to replace the stud & nut assembly holding the door glass in with a low-profile button head screw.
> 
> I am curious if this is applicable to the princess pe32 as well?
> 
> Last season i experienced no smell with good burn times and draft properties.
> I have been researching and reading through the forums and other online chats to try and find some type of understanding or direction. The smell comes from the hinge side of the door (left side) with the smell very strong at the top left corner. Latch has been adjusted, dollar bill test performed, chimney inspected and cleaned, etc... all the suggested actions have been taken. it is a beautiful stove and heats very well, the smoke smell is concerning, from a safety standpoint.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.


Though we have seen several complaints like this with the Ashford, it's not a common complaint for the Princess. How does the gasket look in that area? Is it still fluffy or is it saturated with creosote?


----------



## TheElementalCashew

begreen said:


> Baking time is relative to the size and heat of the coal bed and the dryness of the wood. Very dry softwood is going to outgas rapidly on a 4" hot coal bed whereas 20% hardwood on a moderate 2" coal bed might need 20 minutes.
> 
> 
> That surprised me. I thought the new (German?) paint was not supposed to do this on BK stoves.


I purchased my stove earlier this year, and it stunk horribly the first 3-4 times I ran wood through it.


----------



## Diabel

begreen said:


> Though we have seen several complaints like this with the Ashford, it's not a common complaint for the Princess. How does the gasket look in that area? Is it still fluffy or is it saturated with creosote?


Nor I have heard any complaints regarding the smoke smell and the Princess. Hm


----------



## Diabel

Since I came here asking about my pipe condensation issues I have been charring/baking each load 20min. From cold start to cat probe pegged at max and pipe at 700~ inside the stove looks like yellow hell (the glass radiates like crazy) it takes 15-20min. I think my wood is dry. Still lots of condensing going on.


----------



## elmo_4_vt

Hey all - I'm a little late to the party this year with my new Chinook 30.  Just got the piping done and will be setting the stove tonight.  I don't see anything in the manual, or any good results from searching Hearth,  but is there any time of wisdom to doing a few small loads to set the paint vs just letting her rip the first time?  I'll do a write up of the Chinook and the stove pipe/chimney install in the next couple days once I get the first 2 or 3 fires lit.  It's my first free standing stove, coming from a Osburn insert in the last house.

Don

-


----------



## stoveliker

elmo_4_vt said:


> Hey all - I'm a little late to the party this year with my new Chinook 30.  Just got the piping done and will be setting the stove tonight.  I don't see anything in the manual, or any good results from searching Hearth,  but is there any time of wisdom to doing a few small loads to set the paint vs just letting her rip the first time?  I'll do a write up of the Chinook and the stove pipe/chimney install in the next couple days once I get the first 2 or 3 fires lit.  It's my first free standing stove, coming from a Osburn insert in the last house.
> 
> Don
> 
> -


The paint does not care much; it'll stink each time a higher temp is reached.
However, I believe the firebrick benefits from gradually increasing the fires in size (temp).

Welcome - from a fellow Chinook burner!


----------



## Diabel

Came to the lake yesterday eve. Outside temps in the low teens. The heat pump kept the house nice and toasty at 72. Got the fire going quickly so that the BK could takeover the house heating load (my usual practice to shut off the pump as I come to the lake).
As the stove settled, pipe at 300-350 cat probe at around 2:00pm I noticed the house cooling. I turned on the fans to help circulate the air (usually I have no need for the fans at all). I left the fans at min. speed. Within 10min the cat went to 3:00, pipe to 450 and the fire became somewhat more lively. 

Why is that? Is the fan air somehow hitting the thermostat? No issue with it, just an observation.


----------



## WoodFire89

begreen said:


> Though we have seen several complaints like this with the Ashford, it's not a common complaint for the Princess. How does the gasket look in that area? Is it still fluffy or is it saturated with creosote?


The gasket looks relatively new still, no saturation of creosote in that area.  Along the top edge of the door, it is making contact with the very edge of the gasket (the top portion).  What is tough for me to grasp, is the stove did not give off the odor last year.  

I have ordered a new gasket to replace this one.  

Is it possible that the door latch was adjusted too much and crushed the gasket ? Given the fact it is braided construction, do i not see how it can be crushed....i mean that door would have to be really really adjusted tight


----------



## WoodFire89

Diabel said:


> Nor I have heard any complaints regarding the smoke smell and the Princess. Hm


i have reached out to blaze king and received a form to fill out to help the technical support rep diagnose/trouble shoot why the stove is behaving this way.


----------



## begreen

Diabel said:


> Since I came here asking about my pipe condensation issues I have been charring/baking each load 20min. From cold start to cat probe pegged at max and pipe at 700~ inside the stove looks like yellow hell (the glass radiates like crazy) it takes 15-20min. I think my wood is dry. Still lots of condensing going on.


Even the best procedures can be thwarted by a cold chimney that doesn't retain heat well enough to keep flue gases from condensing. This becomes more apparent when average flue temps hover in the 250-300º range.


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> Came to the lake yesterday eve. Outside temps in the low teens. The heat pump kept the house nice and toasty at 72. Got the fire going quickly so that the BK could takeover the house heating load (my usual practice to shut off the pump as I come to the lake).
> As the stove settled, pipe at 300-350 cat probe at around 2:00pm I noticed the house cooling. I turned on the fans to help circulate the air (usually I have no need for the fans at all). I left the fans at min. speed. Within 10min the cat went to 3:00, pipe to 450 and the fire became somewhat more lively.
> 
> Why is that? Is the fan air somehow hitting the thermostat? No issue with it, just an observation.



You have just witnessed the awesomeness of the thermostat reacting to you cooling the stove with the fans. The thermostat opened and increased the burn rate of the stove to maintain the stove temperature.


----------



## crstrode

Highbeam said:


> The insert uses that remote electric one with the red color right?


The thermometer is built-in, and no, I don't think it is electric.  Here is what it looks like.  The insert is at room temperature cold in this photo taken just a few minutes ago.

By the way, this insert is fairly new - installed in October of 2020.  Yesterday I re-loaded and had the thermostat on full and the bypass open to get back up to operating temperature.  Lost track of time and came back to a VERY hot room.  Even after burning full blast with a load of dry Ponderosa pine, for well over an hour, the thermostat was  at about 75% full scale.  I usually operate at a much lower thermostat setting, and in this case I did notice some heat-induced "aroma" - probably burning the last vestiges of residual paint somewhere . . .

Anyway -
I'm wondering just how high the thermostat should  go under these circumstances, and does the room-temperature indication seem correct?

The good part is that the glass is now a lot cleaner


----------



## MissMac

stoveliker said:


> Not Poindexter here, but I'd think that if the cat lights off, and you don't see smoke (i.e. cat is not just glowing from the heat flowing through it), and your chimney remains as clean as it was in your first season with good wood (I'd check it at least once mid season at this age), then I'd leave it be. No indications it's not working.
> 
> However, I would order a new one to have it on hand for when you need it (and given the current supply issues).


I have a cat on hand, and have been tempted to swap it out just to see if the difference is notable.  Hard for me to say re: smoke coming out of the chimney, as my chimney has intermittently smoked on/off since year one.  I think it has something to do with some of the light softwoods I burn, but can't say for sure.  I have no issues sweeping once per year, and don't have any gunky creo, just nice brownish flakes/dust.  I feel like it might be time for the new one, it just doesn't seem right to get rid of this one when it still glows so much.


----------



## stoveliker

MissMac said:


> I have a cat on hand, and have been tempted to swap it out just to see if the difference is notable.  Hard for me to say re: smoke coming out of the chimney, as my chimney has intermittently smoked on/off since year one.  I think it has something to do with some of the light softwoods I burn, but can't say for sure.  I have no issues sweeping once per year, and don't have any gunky creo, just nice brownish flakes/dust.  I feel like it might be time for the new one, it just doesn't seem right to get rid of this one when it still glows so much.



Then I'd wait swapping until the smoke behavior changes. E.g. more smoke 8 hrs into a burn or so. Maybe others may have different advice. My point of view is that if no negative issues are observed (smoke/Creo), and behavior (temp, glowing etc) has not changed, I see no reason it change it out. Once it won't light off easily, takes effort to do its job (need to run higher), and you see more smoke and stuff in your chimney, then I'd consider a new one.
My $0.02


----------



## Poindexter

MissMac said:


> Hey @Poindexter what do you personally use as your line in the sand to replace your cat?  I'm on my original (4 winters), and I figure that i've put a solid 11000+ hrs on it.  I keep thinking I should replace it, but it lights off like a boss on cold starts, and glows like a champ on/off during the burn cycle.  So, it seems like it would be a waste to replace?  Can the burn times/heat be degrading while still having such a glowing cat?



I usually notice the heat output isn't the same.  Like I load it up full and know how many coals are in there and whether the wind is blowing and how cold it is out, and I just have to turn the stove up a leetle bit higher to keep the house as warm as I expect.

At 11k hours you are probably getting close.  When you are sure the heat output isn't as good as you are used to let the stove go cold, brush the pipe, inspect the cat face and vacuum if needed,  look it over real good to make sure everything else is right.  At this point I usually do one more burn just to be sure the heat output really is lower than I am used to, then swap the cat.  You will need a new gasket everytime the cat comes out of the hole.


----------



## MissMac

Poindexter said:


> I usually notice the heat output isn't the same.  Like I load it up full and know how many coals are in there and whether the wind is blowing and how cold it is out, and I just have to turn the stove up a leetle bit higher to keep the house as warm as I expect.
> 
> At 11k hours you are probably getting close.  When you are sure the heat output isn't as good as you are used to let the stove go cold, brush the pipe, inspect the cat face and vacuum if needed,  look it over real good to make sure everything else is right.  At this point I usually do one more burn just to be sure the heat output really is lower than I am used to, then swap the cat.  You will need a new gasket everytime the cat comes out of the hole.


Okay then, i'm glad I asked.  Last winter there were days when I thought "geeze, I just don't think I'm getting the same heat this year" but I chalked it up to burner lighter softwoods than usual.  This year, I'm feeling underwhelmed with the heat output from what I think I recall, so I'm gonna let the stove cool down and throw the new one in and see if I'm imagining things, or if indeed it is time.  I've only got about 5 burning days in since I swept the chimney, so I'm good that way.  I vacuum the face of the cat periodically over each heating season, as I do get issues with fly ash.  If the heat output is your trigger, then my spidey senses were bang on.  Just seems odd to me that the cat can glow like a flashlight but be underwhelming in performance.

I can't say for certain exactly where I'm at for hours on this cat, but my best guess is between 8500-11,000.

Thanks


----------



## Highbeam

MissMac said:


> Okay then, i'm glad I asked.  Last winter there were days when I thought "geeze, I just don't think I'm getting the same heat this year" but I chalked it up to burner lighter softwoods than usual.  This year, I'm feeling underwhelmed with the heat output from what I think I recall, so I'm gonna let the stove cool down and throw the new one in and see if I'm imagining things, or if indeed it is time.  I've only got about 5 burning days in since I swept the chimney, so I'm good that way.  I vacuum the face of the cat periodically over each heating season, as I do get issues with fly ash.  If the heat output is your trigger, then my spidey senses were bang on.  Just seems odd to me that the cat can glow like a flashlight but be underwhelming in performance.
> 
> I can't say for certain exactly where I'm at for hours on this cat, but my best guess is between 8500-11,000.
> 
> Thanks



Like stoveliker stated above, I think you could keep running this one for awhile. If the smoke emissions haven't changed since the cat was fresh then the cat is likely still in good shape. I get blue smoke emissions every so often, I think it has to do with the cat opening and closing on its own and causing the fire to burp a bit. You will really know when the cat needs replacement, you'll see a lot more white smoke and need to use a higher thermostat setting to stay warm. This makes burn times go way down too. 

Even more obvious than the lack of heat output as the cat dies is the increased smoke when running lower than medium output.

I'm so glad we are past using years as a method for determining if the cat is or should be alive. What a silly concept that was.


----------



## ratsrepus

I change mine every two years, as my stoves were installed a year apart, it works out to one a year.  They both run 24-7.


----------



## ratsrepus

Highbeam said:


> I'm so glad we are past using years as a method for determining if the cat is or should be alive. What a silly concept that was.


sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale


----------



## Highbeam

ratsrepus said:


> sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale



The way you are using it makes sense and almost guarantees that you will always have a healthy cat working for you.


----------



## crstrode

I'm having a difficult time finding a replacement combustor for my SC25 insert.  I bought this insert new in October 2020 from Falco's in Spokane Valley WA.

The original equipment combustor is steel and the measured dimensions are about 13" x 2-1/2" x??"

The manual that came with the insert lists the part number as:  115.0335 with dimensions of 2.48" x13" x2"

It is still working fine now, but I want a spare just in case.

Please advise on my options for a new combustor for this insert.


----------



## ratsrepus

crstrode said:


> I'm having a difficult time finding a replacement combustor for my SC25 insert.  I bought this insert new in October 2020 from Falco's in Spokane Valley WA.
> 
> The original equipment combustor is steel and the measured dimensions are about 13" x 2-1/2" x??"
> 
> The manual that came with the insert lists the part number as:  115.0335 with dimensions of 2.48" x13" x2"
> 
> It is still working fine now, but I want a spare just in case.
> 
> Please advise on my options for a new combustor for this insert.


Condar .com.  thats where I get mine from, or Midwest Hearth


----------



## ratsrepus

ratsrepus said:


> sorry highbeam, Im still on the yearly scale


Im thinking if I keep the stov es running as efficiently as possible it will pay for itself it wood savings


----------



## crstrode

ratsrepus said:


> Condar .com.  thats where I get mine from, or Midwest Hearth


Nope - they do not have the correct size - at least according to their website.


----------



## jetsam

I'm finding that pulling my cat regularly and giving it a distilled vinegar / distilled water rinse is helpful.  I retired my first (ceramic) cat after about 12k hours, and its (steel) replacement is up to about 17k.

BKVP's story about the 10 year cat in his King has led me to decide to run this cat into the ground and see how long it takes!


----------



## Highbeam

jetsam said:


> I'm finding that pulling my cat regularly and giving it a distilled vinegar / distilled water rinse is helpful.  I retired my first (ceramic) cat after about 12k hours, and its (steel) replacement is up to about 17k.
> 
> BKVP's story about the 10 year cat in his King has led me to decide to run this cat into the ground and see how long it takes!



Do it! The new one will feel that much better. You will really appreciate the difference.


----------



## elmo_4_vt

Finally have everything installed and should be ready for the first small fire tomorrow afternoon.  Wish me luck.  Don't mind the unpainted drywall in the back.  We tore out a built-in propane fireplace that had a small vent out the back about 6' up.  Getting the stove in was more important than painting at this point since we have to pain the entire room, 17' walls and all at some point this winter.  Primer coming this weekend.


----------



## Nealm66

I can totally relate to the 2 year cycle. Not just to save wood but seems like a good summer project rather than mid winter. Although it would be cool to see how long it will go. 10 years seems like a lot. Does BKVP not have to burn that much?


----------



## WoodFire89

WoodFire89 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I have a Princess PE 32 (SN-28.1901) Purchased in 2020. This season i have started experiencing the smoke smell with cat engaged as discussed in the forum. I see a fix from Blaze King is to replace the stud & nut assembly holding the door glass in with a low-profile button head screw.
> 
> I am curious if this is applicable to the princess pe32 as well?
> 
> Last season i experienced no smell with good burn times and draft properties.
> I have been researching and reading through the forums and other online chats to try and find some type of understanding or direction. The smell comes from the hinge side of the door (left side) with the smell very strong at the top left corner. Latch has been adjusted, dollar bill test performed, chimney inspected and cleaned, etc... all the suggested actions have been taken. it is a beautiful stove and heats very well, the smoke smell is concerning, from a safety standpoint.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.


@BKVP


----------



## BKVP

WoodFire89 said:


> @BKVP


Please let the fire go out. Open door and sandwich door between your knees.  Then place the palm of both hands on either side of the glass.  While squeezing the glass between your hands, check to see if the glass moves within the door frame.  Try back and forth and up and down.  Caution: you might lift door off hinges doing this, so be aware of this.

Advise.

BKVP


----------



## jetsam

Highbeam said:


> Do it! The new one will feel that much better. You will really appreciate the difference.


That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with.  (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)

So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?

Somebody write me a research grant!


----------



## stoveliker

It's not only the surface area. Also the active component: atomic scale (I think) palladium. Temperature makes that coagulate, and then you have big Of crystals which don't do the job.

This research has been done. Almost everything you touch has seen a catalyst in it's route to you. (Even if not always a gas-solid phase one.)


----------



## Highbeam

jetsam said:


> That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with.  (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)
> 
> So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?
> 
> Somebody write me a research grant!


They tried the weird sponge looking catalysts. I’m not sure what kills a cat but they’re only supposed to last 10-12k hours so if I get that then I’m doing the best I can.


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> It's not only the surface area. Also the active component: atomic scale (I think) palladium. Temperature makes that coagulate, and then you have big Of crystals which don't do the job.


As a chemist, I can confirm. This is not only a problem with our stove cats, but much more so in large industrial chemical applications. Haber-Bosch-Process comes to mind here, but also a plethora of organic catalytic reactions.

I'd say the active metal in our cats is mostly palladium, but rhodium/platinum may be used as well (but probably more expensive). Don't nail me on that one, though.


----------



## BKVP

jetsam said:


> That's got me thinking... if substrate flattening is the thing that eventually kills almost all (steel) cats- 1) A completely "dead" cat is still able to function at whatever the ratio is of surface area between a new one and a flat one, and 2) We could just start with a flat substrate if we had enough surface area to begin with.  (Though it seems like the cat might be bigger than the stove in that case, and imagine taking THAT apart to clean it...)
> 
> So 3) Isn't there a higher-temp substrate out there? Maybe a rough ceramic surface would have sufficient surface area that we could just double the size of the cat and not suffer flattening?
> 
> Somebody write me a research grant!


The substrate is not the issue.  The washcoat is the issue. The washcoat bonds the palladium and platinum to the substrate.  Every industry uses washcoats and believe it or not, 1600F of repeated exposure is what causes the flattening out.  It doesn't happen immediately but over several exposures.

As to the purpose, it isn't just surface area, which is of course key, it also creates turbulence, although minor.  The cat manufacturers are very eager to find washcoats that would have higher thresholds temps and have been so for decades.  You find one (materials & application process) you can probably sell them your idea.


----------



## BKVP

Tron said:


> As a chemist, I can confirm. This is not only a problem with our stove cats, but much more so in large industrial chemical applications. Haber-Bosch-Process comes to mind here, but also a plethora of organic catalytic reactions.
> 
> I'd say the active metal in our cats is mostly palladium, but rhodium/platinum may be used as well (but probably more expensive). Don't nail me on that one, though.


Wood smoke processes use palladium and platinum.  Automotive throw in rhodium....you're spot on Tron!


----------



## elmo_4_vt

Another nubie question for the group - 

On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting.  So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position.  Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic?  Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for?  Top deck temp?

I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.

Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.







Don

PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney.  No bends.


----------



## BKVP

elmo_4_vt said:


> Another nubie question for the group -
> 
> On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting.  So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position.  Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic?  Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for?  Top deck temp?
> 
> I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.
> 
> Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.
> 
> View attachment 287437
> 
> 
> Don
> 
> PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney.  No bends.


So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock.,  Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock.  Tighten the set screw.  Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.

The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

Looks good!

BKVP


----------



## Nealm66

elmo_4_vt said:


> Another nubie question for the group -
> 
> On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting.  So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position.  Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic?  Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for?  Top deck temp?
> 
> I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.
> 
> Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.
> 
> View attachment 287437
> 
> 
> Don
> 
> PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney.  No bends.


I pick the spot that keeps my house around 72 most of the time. It’s a little ( lot) tougher during the milder weather. Also, there’s a choke spot that will give the 20-24 hour burn  that takes a little practice and really depends on your wood and setup. Helps a little bit during the milder weather but the constant low heat can still open up some windows. Best to look at the weather for the next day before reloading.


----------



## Highbeam

elmo_4_vt said:


> Another nubie question for the group -
> 
> On the thermostat, I can rotate it counter-clockwise from 5-o'clock at it's highest setting to around 7-o'clock at it's lowest setting.  So far with 2 smaller fires and 1 normal one going right now, I've been keeping it at the 4-o'clock position (pictured) for a normal burn with the combustor thermometer hovering between the 12 and 2-o'clock position.  Is the 7 to 5 o'clock movement the normal range even though it seems like 1 to 5 is the full range of the graphic?  Is there a combustor temp location I should be shooting for?  Top deck temp?
> 
> I was trying to use the chimney temp, but I used double wall pipe and don't know how the outside temp reflects the inside.
> 
> Thanks for the help with the stupid questions.
> 
> View attachment 287437
> 
> 
> Don
> 
> PS - Stove is a Chinook 30 w/ 14' of double wall stove pipe and 10' of Class A double wall chimney.  No bends.


It is normal, though not useful, to be able to turn the thermostat knob CCW way way past the effective range of 2-6 o’clock. Almost full circle. 

As long as you’re above the active line, the cat meter reading is not important. Adjust the thermostat to provide the desired stove output.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock.,  Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock.  Tighten the set screw.  Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.
> 
> The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.
> 
> Looks good!
> 
> BKVP


 I thought it was a 5/64” Allen. 0.078125”?


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> I thought it was a 5/64” Allen. 0.078125”?


And people wonder why I go crazy with imperial tool sizes. 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, ok, but 5/64?  Or 7/64? Really? Who thought of that?
Life is so much easier when metric measurements are used...

(Wouldn't be surprised if there were sizes like 13/64 or 37/64...)

PS: wouldn't it be easier to at least go decimal and use mils? Like a 78 mil hex key?


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> And people wonder why I go crazy with imperial tool sizes. 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, ok, but 5/64?  Or 7/64? Really? Who thought of that?
> Life is so much easier when metric measurements are used...
> 
> (Wouldn't be surprised if there were sizes like 13/64 or 37/64...)
> 
> PS: wouldn't it be easier to at least go decimal and use mils? Like a 78 mil hex key?



It’s not like they write the sizes on these tiny wrenches. I had to get my calipers out and start measuring selections from my pile of super small Allen wrenches until I found the 5/64” one which slipped right into the set screw. Bkvp is obviously an expert on this though so 7/64” maybe fits too?

Turns out that 5/64” is almost exactly 2mm.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Turns out that 5/64” is almost exactly 2mm.



1.984375mm, close enough ;-)
 I don't know if 7/64 exists, but that wouldn't correspond to anything metric.

(BTW, you'd be surprised how many imperial tool sizes can be covered with metric tools if you're a tiny bit brave, especially with nuts. Easier with the bigger sizes, though)


----------



## Poindexter

If memory serves one of the Duesenberg brothers could eyeball a dimension to the nearest 1/64, though I didn't see it in this article:









						Duesenberg - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter said:


> If memory serves one of the Duesenberg brothers could eyeball a dimension to the nearest 1/64, though I didn't see it in this article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Duesenberg - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Yes but I was off 2/64ths!


----------



## stoveliker

It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.

Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.

The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.

Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.


Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?


----------



## MissMac

stoveliker said:


> It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.
> 
> Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.
> 
> The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.
> 
> Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.
> 
> 
> Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?
> 
> View attachment 287483


my flame shield has a little bow in it too


----------



## Diabel

I often watch the flames penetrate that shield. That cannot be good for the cat.


----------



## MissMac

Diabel said:


> I often watch the flames penetrate that shield. That cannot be good for the cat.


me too


----------



## bikedennis

Did a reload and forgot to close the bypass for about 10 minutes.  Since this is a new stove (Sirocco) I worry.  Of course a raging fire. Does this cause damage to the catalyst?


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> Did a reload and forgot to close the bypass for about 10 minutes.  Since this is a new stove (Sirocco) I worry.  Of course a raging fire. Does this cause damage to the catalyst?



No damage to catalyst, however, it can damage the bypass gasket retainers which are the thin non replaceable brackets around the bypass opening that hold the gasket. If those retainers haven’t melted away then you’re fine. You can check them when cool by feel or visually. If suspect you can even dollar bill test the bypass gasket seal.


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> It's warm here (50+ for the next few days), so I left the stove to go out. Good opportunity to clean out some ashes.
> 
> Checking the cat from the front, I noticed minor fly ash (4-5 channels blocked), so I brushed. However, after I took the flame shield off, I noticed it was quite bent. Sagging down when mounted.
> 
> The result is that flames more easily reach the cat from the now larger slit/gap at the bottom.
> 
> Of course I load the stove to the gills, meaning there's wood burning right there during the charring phase. I presume that's when it happens. I've seen this shield glowing during these times.
> 
> 
> Is this an issue? Do you see this too? Should I do things differently?
> 
> View attachment 287483


That is not an issue.  They are cut on our laser and cutting holes.  They are seldom flat new.  You can bend if slightly as it takes little effort.


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> No damage to catalyst, however, it can damage the bypass gasket retainers which are the thin non replaceable brackets around the bypass opening that hold the gasket. If those retainers haven’t melted away then you’re fine. You can check them when cool by feel or visually. If suspect you can even dollar bill test the bypass gasket seal.


They are replaceable.   The new design is a one piece design, in some models bolted in and other stitch welded.


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> That is not an issue.  They are cut on our laser and cutting holes.  They are seldom flat new.  You can bend if slightly as it takes little effort.



Ok, thank you!


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> They are replaceable.   The new design is a one piece design, in some models bolted in and other stitch welded.


Bolts would be awesome. Good move! Happy to see continued improvement of the brand.

The guy asking the question had a sirroco. Are those replaceable or are they welded on? I’m sorry but welded in is not what I would consider replaceable. No more so than saying the whole stove is replaceable.


----------



## crstrode

BKVP said:


> So you can simply turn it clockwise until it stops, which is 5 o'clock.,  Loosen the set screw it the knob (7/64" allen wrench) and rotate slightly clockwise to 6 o'clock.  Tighten the set screw.  Do not turn it counterclockwise while fastener is loose.
> 
> The effective range, depending upon your draft and fuel MC content will be 2 o'clock to 6 o'clock.
> 
> Looks good!
> 
> BKVP


Are all of the BK thermostats the same?
Do they have the same range of motion from full open to least open?  (ie  120 degrees rotation)


----------



## BKVP

crstrode said:


> Are all of the BK thermostats the same?
> Do they have the same range of motion from full open to least open?  (ie  120 degrees rotation)


Range of motion and range of active use is dependent upon draft and fuel mc.

The springs in the thermostats are NOT the same. 30.2's all have same, all 20.2's the same etc, but not between model lines.


----------



## crstrode

BKVP said:


> Range of motion and range of active use is dependent upon draft and fuel mc.
> 
> The springs in the thermostats are NOT the same. 30.2's all have same, all 20.2's the same etc, but not between model lines.


@BKVP

I am referring to physical range of motion of the mechanical components.  I can imagine that these parts and pieces are assembled and adjusted the same every time at the BK assembly line.  I asked  the question so as to better understand what others are experiencing as they describe thermostat adjustments on their BKs.

I recognize that with the insert burning along nicely, the max CCW ("closed" position) is beyond the point where the  fire will stay lit.

When cold, the thermostat knob on my Sirocco Insert (SC25) exhibits a physical stop at the full open position (6 o'clock).  Throttling down, it moves freely for about 120 degrees to the 2 o'clock position (a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh)  where it meets high resistance.  This "closed" setting is a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh (3 o'clock).

When hot, I notice no change in the physical stop at full open, and only a marginal change  at the closed position.

For the wood that I have been using, adjusting the knob to about the narrow end of the swoosh gives me the longest burn times.  Of course every load is a bit different, as every day's temperature, humidity, wind, etc, is different as well.

Just to reduce the chance of being misunderstood, my BK Sirocco insert is working perfectly and performs far better than I could have ever hoped for


----------



## BKVP

crstrode said:


> @BKVP
> 
> I am referring to physical range of motion of the mechanical components.  I can imagine that these parts and pieces are assembled and adjusted the same every time at the BK assembly line.  I asked  the question so as to better understand what others are experiencing as they describe thermostat adjustments on their BKs.
> 
> I recognize that with the insert burning along nicely, the max CCW ("closed" position) is beyond the point where the  fire will stay lit.
> 
> When cold, the thermostat knob on my Sirocco Insert (SC25) exhibits a physical stop at the full open position (6 o'clock).  Throttling down, it moves freely for about 120 degrees to the 2 o'clock position (a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh)  where it meets high resistance.  This "closed" setting is a little past the narrow end of the white swoosh (3 o'clock).
> 
> When hot, I notice no change in the physical stop at full open, and only a marginal change  at the closed position.
> 
> For the wood that I have been using, adjusting the knob to about the narrow end of the swoosh gives me the longest burn times.  Of course every load is a bit different, as every day's temperature, humidity, wind, etc, is different as well.
> 
> Just to reduce the chance of being misunderstood, my BK Sirocco insert is working perfectly and performs far better than I could have ever hoped for


So yes, most of the thermostat units are same bodied, blades, set collars and rods. Range of motion as well, although some variation by models exists.

Of course the decision years ago to remove numbers from the decal and instead use the swoosh was for the very reason you asked. (If I understood you correctly)

Stove owners were trying to compare their performance attributes based upon how other owners of the same stove(s) performed based upon where the knobs white line pointed.  This created major headaches for us as a manufacturer. 

Our phones range continuously with "hey I'm only getting a 15 hour burn time on #2 and a guy on @$%^.com is getting 24 hours.  My stove is defective. "

We just tried over and over to explain where you must place the thermostat to maintain combustor activity on low is highly influenced by indivual draft scenarios, piece size, fuel type (based upon variation in specific gravity), moisture content and more.

Ideally, you learn where to place the thermostat to make you satisfied!

Thanks for allowing me to expand...


----------



## Larch

BKVP said:


> So yes, most of the thermostat units are same bodied, blades, set collars and rods. Range of motion as well, although some variation by models exists.
> 
> Of course the decision years ago to remove numbers from the decal and instead use the swoosh was for the very reason you asked. (If I understood you correctly)
> 
> Stove owners were trying to compare their performance attributes based upon how other owners of the same stove(s) performed based upon where the knobs white line pointed.  This created major headaches for us as a manufacturer.
> 
> Our phones range continuously with "hey I'm only getting a 15 hour burn time on #2 and a guy on @$%^.com is getting 24 hours.  My stove is defective. "
> 
> We just tried over and over to explain where you must place the thermostat to maintain combustor activity on low is highly influenced by indivual draft scenarios, piece size, fuel type (based upon variation in specific gravity), moisture content and more.
> 
> Ideally, you learn where to place the thermostat to make you satisfied!
> 
> Thanks for allowing me to expand...


These stoves definitely seem to be  individuals in different  situations. Now that I'm finally catching  on to mine it's far exceeding my expectations. I  finally  added  lines to my  thermostat dial, I have a small sweet  spot and got tired of thinking that's  where I  had it. Now that I  marked it the house is always 21.7°c-22.2°c, I  only have  to adjust  it slightly weather depending and the thermostat does  the rest, I  was definitely  over  adjusting before the  lines. Can you still  get after market decals for  more of a professional  look? Not that it really matters


----------



## spudman99

Sorry to be lazy but I searched threads and there were too many that wandered about to answer this question.

I finally took some time to do a dollar bill test on my bypass gasket on my Princess Insert.  It was easy to pull the bill out on the rear side of the bypass (the side opposite the hinge).  Narrow sides and hinge are all tight.  Unit is now on its 3rd season.  Dollar bill slides out pretty easily with slight resistance.  Obviously no gaps in the seal (I did clean and check for obstructions).  Is this something worth correcting?

My draft remains out of spec even though I added a damper to my insert liner a couple of weeks ago.  I still pull upwards of 0.18wc on the Dwyer manometer which is less than the 0.22wc prior.  Damper seems to have made a very minor change.  Burn times seem lower this year but I also think that is a product of using silver maple wood right now.

Thoughts?


----------



## Larch

spudman99 said:


> Sorry to be lazy but I searched threads and there were too many that wandered about to answer this question.
> 
> I finally took some time to do a dollar bill test on my bypass gasket on my Princess Insert.  It was easy to pull the bill out on the rear side of the bypass (the side opposite the hinge).  Narrow sides and hinge are all tight.  Unit is now on its 3rd season.  Dollar bill slides out pretty easily with slight resistance.  Obviously no gaps in the seal (I did clean and check for obstructions).  Is this something worth correcting?
> 
> My draft remains out of spec even though I added a damper to my insert liner a couple of weeks ago.  I still pull upwards of 0.18wc on the Dwyer manometer which is less than the 0.22wc prior.  Damper seems to have made a very minor change.  Burn times seem lower this year but I also think that is a product of using silver maple wood right now.
> 
> Thoughts?


----------



## Larch

spudman99 said:


> Sorry to be lazy but I searched threads and there were too many that wandered about to answer this question.
> 
> I finally took some time to do a dollar bill test on my bypass gasket on my Princess Insert.  It was easy to pull the bill out on the rear side of the bypass (the side opposite the hinge).  Narrow sides and hinge are all tight.  Unit is now on its 3rd season.  Dollar bill slides out pretty easily with slight resistance.  Obviously no gaps in the seal (I did clean and check for obstructions).  Is this something worth correcting?
> 
> My draft remains out of spec even though I added a damper to my insert liner a couple of weeks ago.  I still pull upwards of 0.18wc on the Dwyer manometer which is less than the 0.22wc prior.  Damper seems to have made a very minor change.  Burn times seem lower this year but I also think that is a product of using silver maple wood right now.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'm  not long time blaze king owner so someone  else will respond I hope but from  everything I've been  reading in the manual and on here you  should  adjust it to pass dollar bill test, looks simple enough.


----------



## BKVP

Larch said:


> These stoves definitely seem to be  individuals in different  situations. Now that I'm finally catching  on to mine it's far exceeding my expectations. I  finally  added  lines to my  thermostat dial, I have a small sweet  spot and got tired of thinking that's  where I  had it. Now that I  marked it the house is always 21.7°c-22.2°c, I  only have  to adjust  it slightly weather depending and the thermostat does  the rest, I  was definitely  over  adjusting before the  lines. Can you still  get after market decals for  more of a professional  look? Not that it really matters


There are those that print their own at home, but we do not. Thank you.


----------



## BKVP

spudman99 said:


> Sorry to be lazy but I searched threads and there were too many that wandered about to answer this question.
> 
> I finally took some time to do a dollar bill test on my bypass gasket on my Princess Insert.  It was easy to pull the bill out on the rear side of the bypass (the side opposite the hinge).  Narrow sides and hinge are all tight.  Unit is now on its 3rd season.  Dollar bill slides out pretty easily with slight resistance.  Obviously no gaps in the seal (I did clean and check for obstructions).  Is this something worth correcting?
> 
> My draft remains out of spec even though I added a damper to my insert liner a couple of weeks ago.  I still pull upwards of 0.18wc on the Dwyer manometer which is less than the 0.22wc prior.  Damper seems to have made a very minor change.  Burn times seem lower this year but I also think that is a product of using silver maple wood right now.
> 
> Thoughts?


I would wait until after winter.  However if you elect to do it now, make certain you have the time....You must remove your black pipe unless you have a slip joint, then just raise it up.
There is a description in your owners manual on the procedure.  I would spray a bit of PB Blaster on the bolt and let it soak into threads a bit.
A very slight adjustment is all that may be needed.  Remember,  metals expand when heated.  A quarter or even half-turn can make a difference.


----------



## trail guy Mike

Heading into 3rd winter with new Princess insert, all seems ship shape. Random observations:

-- Starting or hot-loading with thermostat half open is just as effective as starting fully open. The slight flap closure is still much more open than the actual intake hole, and there's no chance we'll forget to slow it down and overheat things.

-- Our wood is nice and dry now; moisture runs 12 to 14% on random samples, but it may be even drier on a given load. Is there really any disadvantage to extra-dry wood? The manual recommends dry wood with no mention (I think) of "too dry".

-- With dry wood, I see no reason to run super hot for any extended period to start a load. After 5 minutes or so of engulfing flame, closing the bypass damper leads to a red hot glowing catalyst; sometimes the stovetop thermometer has only begun to budge upward. Since there's a 6 to 8 minute delay in thermo response, I figure I was "right" when it reads "active" within 6-8 min.

-- I am so very glad the Princess insert thermostat has its dial right-side-up: To turn the stove down, you turn it down: No built-in communication struggles.
 To maintain 70 F when it's 30 outside, dial it to 3 o'clock. If it's 45 outside, dial it to 4:30; etc. -- works perfectly.

-- When it's windy out, more air is momentarily sucked in, the stovetop heats up, and the thermostat reacts by letting in less air: Perfect! Wind seems no more problematic than moisture content or the size of your splits. It just cools the house more, so notch it up a bit.

-- Mid-course corrections: stove running too warm or cool? Adjust as little as possible. Literally, closer to nothing than to something.

-- Locust may burn hotter or longer, but oak smells better and seems to leave less ash. Both are plentiful here in the Smokies.

Thanks in advance for any replies. This is a great forum!


----------



## moresnow

Larch said:


> These stoves definitely seem to be  individuals in different  situations. Now that I'm finally catching  on to mine it's far exceeding my expectations. I  finally  added  lines to my  thermostat dial, I have a small sweet  spot and got tired of thinking that's  where I  had it. Now that I  marked it the house is always 21.7°c-22.2°c, I  only have  to adjust  it slightly weather depending and the thermostat does  the rest, I  was definitely  over  adjusting before the  lines. Can you still  get after market decals for  more of a professional  look? Not that it really matters


Something I have used are the tiny rare earth magnets off fleabay. One for marking a high burn rate position and one for your low set point. Just another easy cheap option for reference points that are easy to see.


----------



## Niko

So I have a question I just replaced my door gasket and the the door latch will not tighten down anymore and no matter what the dollar bill test will not pass. I purchased the gasket from hechlers.com.  This is on a King.  The gasket was put on nice and easy and not stretched.  The weird thing is the dollar bill passed on the side opposite the latch, but the closer I get to the latch the dollar bill slides threw....


----------



## BKVP

Niko said:


> So I have a question I just replaced my door gasket and the the door latch will not tighten down anymore and no matter what the dollar bill test will not pass. I purchased the gasket from hechlers.com.  This is on a King.  The gasket was put on nice and easy and not stretched.  The weird thing is the dollar bill passed on the side opposite the latch, but the closer I get to the latch the dollar bill slides threw....


Something not correct.   Did they sell you our 7/8" dense rope or some other gasket they may stock?


----------



## jdonna

spudman99 said:


> I finally took some time to do a dollar bill test on my bypass gasket on my Princess Insert. It was easy to pull the bill out on the rear side of the bypass (the side opposite the hinge). Narrow sides and hinge are all tight. Unit is now on its 3rd season. Dollar bill slides out pretty easily with slight resistance. Obviously no gaps in the seal (I did clean and check for obstructions). Is this something worth correcting?


I have noticed this on my princess, the left rear corner of the bypass is looser than the rest of the bypass, all areas snug, except that area which the dollar bill will slide through easily.  I wound up tightening the bypass a 1/4 turn twice and it snugged it up more.    I'm not sure if the bypass plate is warped slightly or the gasket is compressed more on one side of the other.  I'm probably being overly cautious but like you I have higher draft and have to make sure things are tight. 


spudman99 said:


> My draft remains out of spec even though I added a damper to my insert liner a couple of weeks ago. I still pull upwards of 0.18wc on the Dwyer manometer which is less than the 0.22wc prior. Damper seems to have made a very minor change. Burn times seem lower this year but I also think that is a product of using silver maple wood right now.


I was worried about running higher than spec draft as well .10-.25, but resisted putting a damper on my setup and have found good burn times and control once things are settled.  I just have to watch reloads close and turn things down quicker.   That said I know its harder on the cat, but I wouldn't give up the control this stove has in comparison to other stoves I have run on this setup.  The fear of a runaway stove is long gone! 

Counter productive but I had extended my chimney 3 ft, to 24 feet, to get the stack into un disturbed air currents from my steep pitched roof.  Even with the stack height and crazy draft due to having a 90 degree elbow and a t snout, I will get a bit of smoke roll out if not careful reloading, so adding a damper would add to that problem.  On prior stoves, I found one damper did little to change the draft measurements other than an experimental barometric damper, which I only used as a test.


----------



## jdonna

Niko said:


> So I have a question I just replaced my door gasket and the the door latch will not tighten down anymore and no matter what the dollar bill test will not pass. I purchased the gasket from hechlers.com.  This is on a King.  The gasket was put on nice and easy and not stretched.  The weird thing is the dollar bill passed on the side opposite the latch, but the closer I get to the latch the dollar bill slides threw....


 I had posted this question for anyone to verify a few pages back on confirmation that Helchers is selling official BK 7/8" high density gasket?  Would love feedback from members. 

What did you use to bed the gasket in with? 

Which spot was loose before replacing the gasket?

I've personally found that you have to do micro adjustments when the gasket is new checking every spot around the door otherwise its easy to over- compress the gasket. Readjust again after a couple of fires.  Understood that your problem is on the latch side rather than hinge side which is odd, thats the side that you generally fight to get right. 

My 2 cents.


----------



## kennyp2339

I wouldnt put a lot of weight on a semi loose dollar pull from the by-pass plate when closed, as long as there is a little bit of resistance you should be good to go. Think about it this way, the by-pass is shut, its not supper tight but the flap is down and snug, you can still pull a dollar bill through it, but the stove is also a vacuum when burning so the smoke will follow the path of least resistance and go through the cat, its when you know you have a good cat, prime wood, low flames and still see smoke coming out of the stack that you should be concerned about the by-pass.
As far as high draft, your going to wear out your cat prematurely, not get as much heat out of the stove as you should, and have lower burn times.  I'm a sufferer of high draft, I was running .18wc's all the time, I had to add 2 dampers to get things under control, there's a big difference with stove function when running within spec vs not spec; took me years to figure that out, even bought a new stove (englander nc30) to replace the bk, thankfully cooler minds prevailed and a close friend of mine bought the nc30 from me for his place.


----------



## BKVP

jdonna said:


> I have noticed this on my princess, the left rear corner of the bypass is looser than the rest of the bypass, all areas snug, except that area which the dollar bill will slide through easily.  I wound up tightening the bypass a 1/4 turn twice and it snugged it up more.    I'm not sure if the bypass plate is warped slightly or the gasket is compressed more on one side of the other.  I'm probably being overly cautious but like you I have higher draft and have to make sure things are tight.
> 
> I was worried about running higher than spec draft as well .10-.25, but resisted putting a damper on my setup and have found good burn times and control once things are settled.  I just have to watch reloads close and turn things down quicker.   That said I know its harder on the cat, but I wouldn't give up the control this stove has in comparison to other stoves I have run on this setup.  The fear of a runaway stove is long gone!
> 
> Counter productive but I had extended my chimney 3 ft, to 24 feet, to get the stack into un disturbed air currents from my steep pitched roof.  Even with the stack height and crazy draft due to having a 90 degree elbow and a t snout, I will get a bit of smoke roll out if not careful reloading, so adding a damper would add to that problem.  On prior stoves, I found one damper did little to change the draft measurements other than an experimental barometric damper, which I only used as a test.


In my 25+ years, I've never seen th 1/2" bypass plate warp.  I replaced my gasket on my 1107 after 8 years.


----------



## Niko

BKVP said:


> Something not correct.   Did they sell you our 7/8" dense rope or some other gasket they may stock?


Can you provide a link to those who sell original blaze king?  I assume what I got from them is but I wouldn't know to be honest with you..  iris their a way to know what is original?


----------



## Niko

jdonna said:


> I had posted this question for anyone to verify a few pages back on confirmation that Helchers is selling official BK 7/8" high density gasket?  Would love feedback from members.
> 
> What did you use to bed the gasket in with?
> 
> Which spot was loose before replacing the gasket?
> 
> I've personally found that you have to do micro adjustments when the gasket is new checking every spot around the door otherwise its easy to over- compress the gasket. Readjust again after a couple of fires.  Understood that your problem is on the latch side rather than hinge side which is odd, thats the side that you generally fight to get right.
> 
> My 2 cents.


I put the gasket in nice and loose and I used a gasket cement or whatever Its called to adhere the gasket to the door.  The gasket fails the dollar bill test in more then one spot.  I'm starting to think that the gasket is wrong, but it was bought from BK dealer.  I'm gonna record a video of what happening and post it up on YouTube for everyone to see.  May take some days but I will get it...


----------



## BKVP

Niko said:


> Can you provide a link to those who sell original blaze king?  I assume what I got from them is but I wouldn't know to be honest with you..  iris their a way to know what is original?


Dealers buy from all sorts of suppliers.   For example, we were not buying enough 1.25" gasket from our supplier so they dumped us.  Retailers can acquire parts, such as gaskets, from many, many suppliers.  We advocate dealers to buy from us the OEM stuff, but it's their call.

I can tell you....you can order it and ask to have it drop shipped from us to your home.  Residential delivery by UPS can be a bit more costly that to a business address.


----------



## Highbeam

That’s what I did last time . Ordered from the dealer over the phone and the gasket was drop shipped directly from BK. I would recommend only using oem for such an important part that aftermarket has been notoriously bad at reproducing.


----------



## jdonna

BKVP said:


> In my 25+ years, I've never seen th 1/2" bypass plate warp.  I replaced my gasket on my 1107 after 8 years.


After the long burning season I plan to replace the gasket and straight edge the retainers and plate.  I did notice if I slide the bypass side to side and had checked it depending on hinge position it would be tighter or looser in that corner.


----------



## jdonna

Niko said:


> I put the gasket in nice and loose and I used a gasket cement or whatever Its called to adhere the gasket to the door. The gasket fails the dollar bill test in more then one spot. I'm starting to think that the gasket is wrong, but it was bought from BK dealer. I'm gonna record a video of what happening and post it up on YouTube for everyone to see. May take some days but I will get it...


When I replaced my door gasket,  one of the other members had mentioned using a liberal amount of Ultra copper RTV to bed the gasket.  I I filled the channels between studs with more rtv to try and make a flatter surface for the gasket. 

Right or wrong, I had followed that advise and it turned out well.  

I was battling a loose spot in my loading door gasket and slight smoke smell when turned way down in the early shoulder season.  That seemed to solve my issue.


----------



## Nealm66

Perfect princess weather here in the pnw! Mixed rain and snow, seems to be her happy place. A little tricky on the reloads with the long work schedule but loading light at night and room to load heavy in the am is doing the trick. So awesome to come home after a 15 hour day and could go longer but better not wait too long or won’t be any room in the am. Still curious how the king schedule would work? Just aim for the 24hour?


----------



## kennyp2339

Nealm66 said:


> Perfect princess weather here in the pnw! Mixed rain and snow, seems to be her happy place. A little tricky on the reloads with the long work schedule but loading light at night and room to load heavy in the am is doing the trick. So awesome to come home after a 15 hour day and could go longer but better not wait too long or won’t be any room in the am. Still curious how the king schedule would work? Just aim for the 24hour?


Not so good here, up and down, this week is a up week in temps, like 50's and almost 60 on Thursday, then back down for the weekend, crazy to think that I'm going to get a T time for 18 holes on Thursday then possibly be skiing by next Thursday in the same town, about the only good thing I can say about the weather is that I'm saving 2 wheel barrels worth of wood a week.


----------



## ohlongarm

BKVP said:


> So yes, most of the thermostat units are same bodied, blades, set collars and rods. Range of motion as well, although some variation by models exists.
> 
> Of course the decision years ago to remove numbers from the decal and instead use the swoosh was for the very reason you asked. (If I understood you correctly)
> 
> Stove owners were trying to compare their performance attributes based upon how other owners of the same stove(s) performed based upon where the knobs white line pointed.  This created major headaches for us as a manufacturer.
> 
> Our phones range continuously with "hey I'm only getting a 15 hour burn time on #2 and a guy on @$%^.com is getting 24 hours.  My stove is defective. "
> 
> We just tried over and over to explain where you must place the thermostat to maintain combustor activity on low is highly influenced by indivual draft scenarios, piece size, fuel type (based upon variation in specific gravity), moisture content and more.
> 
> Ideally, you learn where to place the thermostat to make you satisfied!
> 
> Thanks for allowing me to expand...


My spot for a long burn on my King parlor seems to be about 4 o'clock when I put it there after burning awhile whether for fire viewing or not, it makes a click , I believe it's the flapper thing and I just leave it there any of that make any sense?


----------



## ohlongarm

The scrunchy sound, squeaky sound on the thermostat dial. There was a post explaining how to correct but using tools in not an option, anybody? please, THX


----------



## BKVP

OK all you Blaze King owners and hearth contributors, I would like to wish you all a very safe Holiday Season and a Merry Christmas.

BKVP


----------



## begreen

ohlongarm said:


> The scrunchy sound, squeaky sound on the thermostat dial. There was a post explaining how to correct but using tools in not an option, anybody? please, THX


Without tools this could be difficult. Have you tried using silicone spray to lubricate it?


----------



## Nealm66

ohlongarm said:


> My spot for a long burn on my King parlor seems to be about 4 o'clock when I put it there after burning awhile whether for fire viewing or not, it makes a click , I believe it's the flapper thing and I just leave it there any of that make any sense?


Yup. Took me a long time to notice it and I’d actually made my mark on the swoosh before I even noticed it. Kind of sneaky , subtle but it’s there. I adjust from it a little in either direction for extremes


----------



## BKVP

ohlongarm said:


> The scrunchy sound, squeaky sound on the thermostat dial. There was a post explaining how to correct but using tools in not an option, anybody? please, THX


You can try a couple of things:

First, look to see if wear the rod goes through the bracket behind the knob is rubbing.  You can apply some lubricant if need be.  Second, you may have to allow someone to help you because the thermostat body needs to get pulled out and the gear need lubricating.  If you can get some help, PM me and I'll work over the phone with the person doing the work to get it done correctly.

Thank you for your service!

Chris


----------



## Nealm66

kennyp2339 said:


> Not so good here, up and down, this week is a up week in temps, like 50's and almost 60 on Thursday, then back down for the weekend, crazy to think that I'm going to get a T time for 18 holes on Thursday then possibly be skiing by next Thursday in the same town, about the only good thing I can say about the weather is that I'm saving 2 wheel barrels worth of wood a week.


Ya, I have to tap out on those days if I’m smart enough to look ahead. That low and slow heat is deceiving. Highbeam seems to have it dialed in like a Jedi. Me… not so much


----------



## Niko

Somfor android devices is anyone using Tapatalk?  I don't see hearth on it so when I sign on it's threw the website and on a cell phone it's getting a little crazy.


----------



## ohlongarm

BKVP said:


> You can try a couple of things:
> 
> First, look to see if wear the rod goes through the bracket behind the knob is rubbing.  You can apply some lubricant if need be.  Second, you may have to allow someone to help you because the thermostat body needs to get pulled out and the gear need lubricating.  If you can get some help, PM me and I'll work over the phone with the person doing the work to get it done correctly.
> 
> Thank you for your service!
> 
> Chris


Chris, THX, I will probably do that, and THX for the kind words.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> Ya, I have to tap out on those days if I’m smart enough to look ahead. That low and slow heat is deceiving. Highbeam seems to have it dialed in like a Jedi. Me… not so much



I think I’m just lucky to have an old house with just the right amount of heating demand. We’re on full loads now, 24 hour cycle but need a little kindling to ignite the reload so not quite minimum output continuously.

To make the thermostat knob squeak go away you need to lubricate this little spring washer that provides a tension. That little spring washer is under the thermostat cover on the rod that the knob attaches to. I just did it a week ago and the knob turns like butta! I’ve never removed the actual thermostat. That thing is sealed down with rtv. Perhaps there’s even more improvement there?


----------



## Poindexter

What is the longest burn anyone has ever done, or read about from a reputable source, in a BK King?  Species and MC?

Asking for a friend.


----------



## kennyp2339

Poindexter said:


> What is the longest burn anyone has ever done, or read about from a reputable source, in a BK King?  Species and MC?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


I think I remember seeing ?dieselhead? member in Alaska saying 36-40hr for his king.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter said:


> What is the longest burn anyone has ever done, or read about from a reputable source, in a BK King?  Species and MC?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


At Hearth Expo in Phoenix AZ.  We took a King, modified the loading door with no glass and a locking latch.  A chart recorder was connected to the rear side of the combustor to monitor combustor activity.  A load of Tamarack from my personal wood pile was hand selected, shaped and numbered to have maximum load density.

The stove was located inside a 3 sided, outdoor display.  No other heater was in the same booth. (Sometimes we burn a wood and gas unit for display purposes.)

We started a fire using 5lbs of kindling to establish a 2" coal bed and get combustor active. After 30 minutes we loaded 74lbs of large and medium and small pieces of tamarack.  The ends were marked by numbers and corresponded to key showing where each piece was to be located.

Loading door was closed and locked.  Thermostat was set to consume sub 1kg/hr. Knob was then removed.  Bypass handle was also removed.  All 3 items were handed over to the CEO/President of HPBA....with dozens of dealers present.

Total burn time was 62 hours, 32 minutes before combustor dropped below 550F.  The chart printer by the chart recorder is very, very long, now laminated and in my office.

Acknowledged: 
Day time temps were above 75, night time below freezing.  You can see combustor influenced by change in stack effect (draft)

Tetris loading maximized fuel load most certainly. 

Piece size included 2 half rounds that were 18" across, 10" thick.  Remainder very average for King users in the PNW.

BUT THIS IS NOT THE RECORD, Just the witnessed by hundreds of people record.

The longest burn of all time will remain a secret.


----------



## moresnow

BKVP said:


> At Hearth Expo in Phoenix AZ.  We took a King, modified the loading door with no glass and a locking latch.  A chart recorder was connected to the rear side of the combustor to monitor combustor activity.  A load of Tamarack from my personal wood pile was hand selected, shaped and numbered to have maximum load density.
> 
> The stove was located inside a 3 sided, outdoor display.  No other heater was in the same booth. (Sometimes we burn a wood and gas unit for display purposes.)
> 
> We started a fire using 5lbs of kindling to establish a 2" coal bed and get combustor active. After 30 minutes we loaded 74lbs of large and medium and small pieces of tamarack.  The ends were marked by numbers and corresponded to key showing where each piece was to be located.
> 
> Loading door was closed and locked.  Thermostat was set to consume sub 1kg/hr. Knob was then removed.  Bypass handle was also removed.  All 3 items were handed over to the CEO/President of HPBA....with dozens of dealers present.
> 
> Total burn time was 62 hours, 32 minutes before combustor dropped below 550F.  The chart printer by the chart recorder is very, very long, now laminated and in my office.
> 
> Acknowledged:
> Day time temps were above 75, night time below freezing.  You can see combustor influenced by change in stack effect (draft)
> 
> Tetris loading maximized fuel load most certainly.
> 
> Piece size included 2 half rounds that were 18" across, 10" thick.  Remainder very average for King users in the PNW.
> 
> BUT THIS IS NOT THE RECORD, Just the witnessed by hundreds of people record.
> 
> The longest burn of all time will remain a secret.


Does the real record include your personal stove and you being on a trip/vacation? Seem to recall a story you related to us here some time ago. Either way. Who doesn't want a King!


----------



## Nealm66

Wow!


----------



## Diabel

moresnow said:


> Does the real record include your personal stove and you being on a trip/vacation? Seem to recall a story you related to us here some time ago. Either way. Who doesn't want a King!


A business trip down under…..


----------



## BKVP

moresnow said:


> Does the real record include your personal stove and you being on a trip/vacation? Seem to recall a story you related to us here some time ago. Either way. Who doesn't want a King!


No sir.  That's #2.  The Expo was #3.  #1 remains guarded...


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> No sir.  That's #2.  The Expo was #3.  #1 remains guarded...



I have an idea about how to beat 62. It’s not with tamarack.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I have an idea about how to beat 62. It’s not with tamarack.


That'd be large shipping cost, or a move to "oak (or locust) country"


----------



## Nealm66

BKVP said:


> No sir.  That's #2.  The Expo was #3.  #1 remains guarded...


Is this like the 99mpg carburetor?


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> Is this like the 99mpg carburetor?


It's real.  For liability reasons I cannot expand.  But it is reproducible every time.


----------



## Dieselhead

kennyp2339 said:


> I think I remember seeing ?dieselhead? member in Alaska saying 36-40hr for his king.


I’ve got around 30 hrs on low on a full load of mixed hardwoods when the temps are high 30s low 40s. Towards the end of the burn the stove was not putting out enough heat to keep the temp in the house at the desired temp however. The cat was still active but stove top temps were dropping. I do have a 25’ straight up flue and The equivalent of 3k sqft area to heat I consider my burn times pretty choice! Depending on outdoor temps I do anywhere from a 12-30 hour reload cycle.


----------



## jetsam

BKVP said:


> It's real.  For liability reasons I cannot expand.  But it is reproducible every time.



"After the mahogany block is milled to the exact size and shape of the firebox, seal it in a tub of kerosene to soak for a week. Meanwhile, cut the stove in half with a torch. Lift off the top half of the stove, drop the block in, and light the fire by welding the stove back together."


----------



## BKVP

jetsam said:


> "After the mahogany block is milled to the exact size and shape of the firebox, seal it in a tub of kerosene to soak for a week. Meanwhile, cut the stove in half with a torch. Lift off the top half of the stove, drop the block in, and light the fire by welding the stove back together."


Nothing very elaborate like that!


----------



## begreen

I'll remember this next time I need a sauna heated up when it's 75 outside.


----------



## jetsam

BKVP said:


> Nothing very elaborate like that!



Alternating layers of stabbed oak and anthracite!

Or, if you want to cheat, put one small split in a BK Clarity and it will burn for years....


----------



## ratsrepus

BKVP said:


> Dealers buy from all sorts of suppliers.   For example, we were not buying enough 1.25" gasket from our supplier so they dumped us.  Retailers can acquire parts, such as gaskets, from many, many suppliers.  We advocate dealers to buy from us the OEM stuff, but it's their call.
> 
> I can tell you....you can order it and ask to have it drop shipped from us to your home.  Residential delivery by UPS can be a bit more costly that to a business address.


you know, you'd make it a lot easier on us if you would sell gaskets and related items  directly. IMHO.  I know your trying to support your dealers, but at least we would be assured we were getting the right stuff


----------



## rdust

ratsrepus said:


> you know, you'd make it a lot easier on us if you would sell gaskets and related items  directly. IMHO.  I know your trying to support your dealers, but at least we would be assured we were getting the right stuff



Last time I ordered gaskets from my local dealer I went in with all the part numbers right out of the BK manual.  Doing it that way I got exactly what I wanted.


----------



## crstrode

rdust said:


> Last time I ordered gaskets from my local dealer I went in with all the part numbers right out of the BK manual.  Doing it that way I got exactly what I wanted.


I tried that just last week.  Needed a spare cat for a Sirocco insert bought just last year.  BK has since that time made multiple manual revisions, and changed the cat part number . . .


----------



## kennyp2339

I order my cats from midwest hearth and all other parts online from hechler's stove and hearth. Pain in the butt since my BK dealer went out of business and the next nearest guy doesnt have a shop, he will only do service calls from his van so your out of luck if your a diy person, not paying $175 for a stove door to a new gasket replaced. 
All this really means is that you should be pro-active and have extra gaskets & cats on hand ( I order off season when availability is higher)


----------



## BKVP

ratsrepus said:


> you know, you'd make it a lot easier on us if you would sell gaskets and related items  directly. IMHO.  I know your trying to support your dealers, but at least we would be assured we were getting the right stuff


As I mentioned, order it with the dealer and ask to have it drop shipped from us to the house of the stove owner.  Dealers are happy to oblige.


----------



## jetsam

ratsrepus said:


> you know, you'd make it a lot easier on us if you would sell gaskets and related items  directly. IMHO.  I know your trying to support your dealers, but at least we would be assured we were getting the right stuff



Add stoves to that list.

It's not just that I don't want to pay a large markup for the zero value that a dealer adds- after the last experience I had, I doubt I'll ever be willing to buy a BK from a dealer again.

Let me pay the manufacturer and the LTL truck company. Putting one stove on an LTL takes 5 minutes if you have a loading dock.  Keep the dealer markup for yourself if you want.

If you know anyone who is in charge of a car company, I have exactly the same ask for them!


----------



## Nealm66

The dealer around here seems pretty fair. Kind of a bigger dealership maybe? Think they have a couple 2,3 locations. They carry a few other brands and sold me the pipe and the guy in charge of the installations answered all my stupid questions ( there was a lot)  Hopefully when it comes time I can do as bkvp says and just have it delivered straight from BK through them. They seem so busy I’d suspect that’s why they were so willing to help with the self install and probably be the same with self maintenance.


----------



## ratsrepus

BKVP said:


> As I mentioned, order it with the dealer and ask to have it drop shipped from us to the house of the stove owner.  Dealers are happy to oblige.


Well my dealer is an _____.  Ordered a door gasket form him, or tried to, Its a candle shop that sells wood stoves, and he certainly didn't sell me on a blaze king, cause I know more about them than he did.  When I call I usually get  17 year old  Stacy whose cute, but dumb as a box of rocks.  Had wisdom teeth pulled that was easier then trying to explain to Stacy what I needed.


----------



## Highbeam

Getting that part number might make life easier. Like guys at the auto parts store can't sell you a spark plug for a chevy 350 without asking whether it's 4wd or not. They just look up and order parts. 

And for crying out loud, use a heavy (like 1/4" thick) bead of RTV to set the oem gasket. Those silly studs and bolts stick up that far at least so the gasket has to ride over all of them.


----------



## Diabel

I have lots of experience changing gaskets on my VC, most are very easy to do. Buy I am not looking forward to changing the BK door gasket.


----------



## TheTodd

crstrode said:


> I tried that just last week.  Needed a spare cat for a Sirocco insert bought just last year.  BK has since that time made multiple manual revisions, and changed the cat part number . . .


Let us know how your search ends up.  I was considering grabbing a new cat for my Ashford 25 but wasn't having any luck online either.


----------



## kennyp2339

Ready for the turn in weather, cleaned the chimney (really didn’t need it) cleaned the ash out of the stove since I stopped burning in it on Tuesday, brought in 2 wheel barrels worth of wood and lit a fire. Snow, sleet, rain forecasted all day tomorrow, so I’m as ready and ready can be.


----------



## stoveliker

Same here; used the soot eater, cleaned some ashes, made and filled a 3/4 face cord rack in the garage.
Either tonight or tomorrow morning I'll start again. Just his whole week of not burning, even some days when the minisplit didn't get used.


----------



## rdust




----------



## Highbeam

rdust said:


> View attachment 287882


Nice load and photo. The blue reminds me of burning maple.


----------



## rdust

Highbeam said:


> Nice load and photo. The blue reminds me of burning maple.


All ash.  Realistically 4 pieces filled it, the kindling sized filler aren’t gonna add much.


----------



## ratsrepus

Diabel said:


> I have lots of experience changing gaskets on my VC, most are very easy to do. Buy I am not looking forward to changing the BK door gasket.


looks like to me if you take the door of the princess and lay it down flat, changing door gaskets is no big deal, now the ashford might be a different deal


----------



## ratsrepus

TheTodd said:


> Let us know how your search ends up.  I was considering grabbing a new cat for my Ashford 25 but wasn't having any luck online either.


The cats are the same on my princess and ashford,   easy to find


----------



## Kwehme09

Hi All, it's been awhile. I just made the move from the White Mountains of New Hampshire to Aroostook County, Maine for a job with Baxter State Park. We bought a 2000sf Farm House on with a beautiful view and full exposure to the wind. It's always WINDY. The house has some Tractor Supply wood hog so I ordered a Blaze King Princess before I even moved in. I had a Sirroco 20 in New Hampshire so I am really excited to be getting the Princess. 

I was told when I ordered from the nearest dealer that it was a 4-6 week lead time. That was back in November. When I called to check in, they told me "When you ordered, we said mid to late February." Ugh. SO now I am debating between flying through my meager (it's hard, and illegal to move firewood across state lines, and I don't trust anyone I don't know selling "dry wood") wood supply in the existing stove, or saving it for the Princess. Either way, I know I am going to be burning lots of oil. 

Sob story aside, is there any magic password to get my Princess Faster? Can BKVP pull some strings for me? Northern Maine is COLD!


----------



## Highbeam

Trying to keep up with @rdust here’s a full load for me. This will be a 24 hour load with just a few coals left tomorrow at this time. Keeps the home in mid 70s when temperatures outside are just above freezing overnight and low 40s during the day. It’s dark and rainy all the time.

This is 5 splits of Doug fir and 3 splits of cherry.

The cat is just shy of 50% consumed (by hours) but is working great. Low and slow full time heat!


----------



## Highbeam

ratsrepus said:


> looks like to me if you take the door of the princess and lay it down flat, changing door gaskets is no big deal, now the ashford might be a different deal



The challenge is cleaning and adding new rtv around all the door glass retainer hardware that is hidden under the door gasket.


----------



## Nealm66

Kwehme09 said:


> Hi All, it's been awhile. I just made the move from the White Mountains of New Hampshire to Aroostook County, Maine for a job with Baxter State Park. We bought a 2000sf Farm House on with a beautiful view and full exposure to the wind. It's always WINDY. The house has some Tractor Supply wood hog so I ordered a Blaze King Princess before I even moved in. I had a Sirroco 20 in New Hampshire so I am really excited to be getting the Princess.
> 
> I was told when I ordered from the nearest dealer that it was a 4-6 week lead time. That was back in November. When I called to check in, they told me "When you ordered, we said mid to late February." Ugh. SO now I am debating between flying through my meager (it's hard, and illegal to move firewood across state lines, and I don't trust anyone I don't know selling "dry wood") wood supply in the existing stove, or saving it for the Princess. Either way, I know I am going to be burning lots of oil.
> 
> Sob story aside, is there any magic password to get my Princess Faster? Can BKVP pull some strings for me? Northern Maine is COLD!


Ah man, tis the crazy times. I’d probably burn the oil on the milder days and use some firewood on the colder ones. The princess will burn crazy long on the presto logs if it comes down to it.


----------



## JKanor

Finally getting another cold snap here in PA Sunday to burn through the Holiday at least. While cleaning the stove up and setting up the next fire I took a picture of my door gasket. 

Just for my piece of mind, does it look good and normal. Not having any issues and it passes the bill test (between the hinges is the least pressure). Figured why not ask. Stove is a 2015 that I got used in 2018, assuming it's factory..


----------



## Poindexter

@JKanor , looks like al the brown on your gasket is inside the knife edge.  I would run that with confidence.


----------



## Poindexter

Reminder to all gasket and combustor shoppers, right now the USA is short staffed.  Please be kind to the people who do show up.  I can tell you showing up gets harder every day.


----------



## WoodFire89

BKVP said:


> Please let the fire go out. Open door and sandwich door between your knees.  Then place the palm of both hands on either side of the glass.  While squeezing the glass between your hands, check to see if the glass moves within the door frame.  Try back and forth and up and down.  Caution: you might lift door off hinges doing this, so be aware of this.
> 
> Advise.
> 
> BKVP


The glass is tight.  Removed the door and replaced the gasket.  Found that the gasket seam where the two ends meet was in the middle of the door.  Is this correct?  Looking in the manual, it states to start the seam in the lower right corner, which i did when replacing.  Still having the same smoke smell with the cat engaged.  And still coming from the hinge side of the door.  Performed the dollar bill test with the new gasket.  It is tight everywhere, except the hinge side, and this is with many adjustments of the latch for the loading door.  

Is this adjustment supposed to be continued until the hinge side passes the dollar bill test?  It seems that with each adjustment no improvement is made. Only result is the adjustment is pulling the handle side of the door in tighter and no where else.

Almost like the hinges need to be moved in towards the back of the firebox.  I know this isnt possible, just my conclusion from the results of the latch adjustment.


----------



## kennyp2339

@WoodFire89 I've had the same issue while doing the dollar bill test myself, same spot to, I replaced my gasket back in 2018, no issues with running the stove. I recently did the dollar bill test just to see where I'm at, I'm tight with almost tearing the dollar on 3 sides, then I hit the hinge side and I have just a little resistance, but no much, epesically when comparing to the other 3 sides, its been like that for a while. I did check the knife edge groove and noticed that my gasket somehow rolled a little more into the firebox (hard to explain since its also glued) so I have on spot near the top hinge that doesnt have a pronounced groove from the door cut into it. I'm going to replace my gasket as soon as possible (ordered one from hechlers hardware this past week) Overall, stove performance is just fine, no gaps, smells or noticeable issues like certain glass soot stains (its all uniformly black with deposits in certain area's and a clean patch making the V pattern) I'm just replacing it for peace of mind and well because these stoves are boring and I have nothing better to do with my time. 
@JKanor - that looks great, good color and a center knife edge mark thats uniform, I'll post a pic of mine so you can see one thats in trouble of failure.


----------



## Diabel

JKanor said:


> Finally getting another cold snap here in PA Sunday to burn through the Holiday at least. While cleaning the stove up and setting up the next fire I took a picture of my door gasket.
> 
> Just for my piece of mind, does it look good and normal. Not having any issues and it passes the bill test (between the hinges is the least pressure). Figured why not ask. Stove is a 2015 that I got used in 2018, assuming it's factory..
> 
> View attachment 287924


This is one clean gasket and glass. Looks almost new. Must be the picture but it almost looks white, not the darker graphite high density one.


----------



## MissMac

Poindexter said:


> I usually notice the heat output isn't the same.  Like I load it up full and know how many coals are in there and whether the wind is blowingcold it is out, and I just have to turn the stove up a leetle bit higher to keep the house as warm as I expect.
> 
> At 11k hours you are probably getting close.  When you are sure the heat output isn't as good as you are used to let the stove go cold, brush the pipe, inspect the cat face and vacuum if needed,  look it over real good to make sure everything else is right.  At this point I usually do one more burn just to be sure the heat output really is lower than I am used to, then swap the cat.  You will need a new gasket everytime the cat comes out of the hole.


Well, I have been on the new cat for a little over a week now across a good spread of outdoor temps, and I can say with confidence that it was time to swap the cat.  I know I could have continued with the old one, but now I realize at what level of reduced performance.  I am back to getting what I expected from the stove - longer burn times for a given heat output, and have also noticed reduced emissions from the chimney.  The old cat was just creeping so slowly towards fatigue that it was hard to notice.  Lesson learned.  I will be quicker to swap next time, and to heck with whether or not it still glows.  Thanks @Poindexter


----------



## Highbeam

MissMac said:


> Well, I have been on the new cat for a little over a week now across a good spread of outdoor temps, and I can say with confidence that it was time to swap the cat.  I know I could have continued with the old one, but now I realize at what level of reduced performance.  I am back to getting what I expected from the stove - longer burn times for a given heat output, and have also noticed reduced emissions from the chimney.  The old cat was just creeping so slowly towards fatigue that it was hard to notice.  Lesson learned.  I will be quicker to swap next time, and to heck with whether or not it still glows.  Thanks @Poindexter


People wait way too long for several “reasons”. I’m guilty of waiting too long because I’m cheap and hate wasting. Working cats are pretty cheap and pay for themselves with wood savings.


----------



## BKVP

WoodFire89 said:


> The glass is tight.  Removed the door and replaced the gasket.  Found that the gasket seam where the two ends meet was in the middle of the door.  Is this correct?  Looking in the manual, it states to start the seam in the lower right corner, which i did when replacing.  Still having the same smoke smell with the cat engaged.  And still coming from the hinge side of the door.  Performed the dollar bill test with the new gasket.  It is tight everywhere, except the hinge side, and this is with many adjustments of the latch for the loading door.
> 
> Is this adjustment supposed to be continued until the hinge side passes the dollar bill test?  It seems that with each adjustment no improvement is made. Only result is the adjustment is pulling the handle side of the door in tighter and no where else.
> 
> Almost like the hinges need to be moved in towards the back of the firebox.  I know this isnt possible, just my conclusion from the results of the latch adjustment.


If your available,  call me at 509-522-2730 Monday morning.   I'll be available 9 a.m.-3:00 p.m. based upon your time zone.  If possible,  have the stove at room temperature and have a very bright light (like on cell phone) or flashlight.


----------



## WoodFire89

BKVP said:


> If your available,  call me at 509-522-2730 Monday morning.   I'll be available 9 a.m.-3:00 p.m. based upon your time zone.  If possible,  have the stove at room temperature and have a very bright light (like on cell phone) or flashlight.


Much appreciated !  I will have the stove cooled down for the call.


----------



## crstrode

TheTodd said:


> Let us know how your search ends up.  I was considering grabbing a new cat for my Ashford 25 but wasn't having any luck online either.


I finally got one from my local BK dealer.  I was unable to find one online.

Someone is making good coin from a Blaze King customer.
My cost was $396.57.
Holy catalytic Batman!


----------



## Poindexter

crstrode said:


> I finally got one from my local BK dealer.  I was unable to find one online.
> 
> Someone is making good coin from a Blaze King customer.
> My cost was $396.57.
> Holy catalytic Batman!
> 
> 
> View attachment 287979


You can check precious metals pricing online pretty easy.  I like monex dot com personally, but there are many similar websites.  Precious metal prices are currently pretty high.


----------



## jetsam

Kwehme09 said:


> Hi All, it's been awhile. I just made the move from the White Mountains of New Hampshire to Aroostook County, Maine for a job with Baxter State Park. We bought a 2000sf Farm House on with a beautiful view and full exposure to the wind. It's always WINDY. The house has some Tractor Supply wood hog so I ordered a Blaze King Princess before I even moved in. I had a Sirroco 20 in New Hampshire so I am really excited to be getting the Princess.
> 
> I was told when I ordered from the nearest dealer that it was a 4-6 week lead time. That was back in November. When I called to check in, they told me "When you ordered, we said mid to late February." Ugh. SO now I am debating between flying through my meager (it's hard, and illegal to move firewood across state lines, and I don't trust anyone I don't know selling "dry wood") wood supply in the existing stove, or saving it for the Princess. Either way, I know I am going to be burning lots of oil.
> 
> Sob story aside, is there any magic password to get my Princess Faster? Can BKVP pull some strings for me? Northern Maine is COLD!


Bring a chainsaw, burn standing dead stuff. Princess likes it fine.  Sweep the flue often.


----------



## kennyp2339

BK Princess door gasket, near the end of its life - 4 seasons
Take notice of the top right corner, the gasket rolled even though its glues in, this is a pressure issue, when the front latch is made snug it will put forces on the thick gasket the end result is down and in, this is a cumulative problem, 4 seasons and because of the roll effect I now dont have a snug dollar bill when I do the test between the 2 hinges, gasket will be replaced tomorrow, and I stress this, 4 seasons on it, very happy with the performance considering some door gaskets look like witches hair by the 3rd season due to break down and not being careful. 
Also its important to mention, once the old gasket is out and the channel is cleaned of old rtv, I will be carefully checking to make sure the door glass nuts are snug and havent backed out.


----------



## BKVP

When we ship stoves, the doors are in separate boxes.  In the manual and a tag on stove and one more with door tell the installer to adjust door tension.  Not doing so almost always results in initial use crushing the gasket and shortening the life of the gasket. We suspect 50% are not properly adjusted upon install.


----------



## Nealm66

Ya, 4 seasons doesn’t seem very long. Something wasn’t right


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> When we ship stoves, the doors are in separate boxes.  In the manual and a tag on stove and one more with door tell the installer to adjust door tension.  Not doing so almost always results in initial use crushing the gasket and shortening the life of the gasket. We suspect 50% are not properly adjusted upon install.



My stove came on a pallet (to the original purchaser from whom I bought it) all wrapped and supported, with shipping labels etc. on there. And the door mounted...? It seemed to have been drop-shipped to him. But door on there...


----------



## Diabel

Would it be correct to assume if one uses the stove part time, (some weekends only), the life expectancy of the gasket increases? Or does it degrade regardless of use. How about the cat?


----------



## Stump shot

Bk Ashford 30 loaded with doug fir,  split with a Eastonmade 5-way box wedge.


----------



## BKVP

Stump shot said:


> Bk Ashford 30 loaded with doug fir,  split with a Eastonmade 5-way box wedge.
> 
> View attachment 288055


Well done!  Game On!  Wood stoves tetras begins...


----------



## Diabel

My splits are big but uneven, so I will not be wining anything here. Still, 7/8 split load…..24h later……..7/8 split load….24h later repeat…..

I will be at the lake 10 days this Christmas……so wait 10 loads….

Happy Holidays everyone!!


----------



## Nealm66

Ya, I’m not going to win any contest unless it’s with another brand of stove lol. Definitely liking the cooler weather ( finally!)


----------



## begreen

crstrode said:


> I finally got one from my local BK dealer.  I was unable to find one online.
> 
> Someone is making good coin from a Blaze King customer.
> My cost was $396.57.
> Holy catalytic Batman!
> 
> 
> View attachment 287979


 A $400 cat is not chump change.


----------



## begreen

Nealm66 said:


> Ya, I’m not going to win any contest unless it’s with another brand of stove lol. Definitely liking the cooler weather ( finally!)


It's about to go from cool (though a balmy 48º today) down to frigid by the weekend. Folks over in Eastern WA will be seeing negative temps.


----------



## kennyp2339

crstrode said:


> I finally got one from my local BK dealer.  I was unable to find one online.
> 
> Someone is making good coin from a Blaze King customer.
> My cost was $396.57.
> Holy catalytic Batman!
> 
> 
> View attachment 287979


I'd return that and shop somewhere else, you paid almost double the cost, go by measurements and not advertisement, check out midwest hearth for your cats, after your first one is kicked, turn that one into your dealer if it meets the warrantee period (most do btw)


----------



## stoveliker

Interesting little flames - only behind the flame guard in front of the cat. (Hour and a half after a pine reload). Tstat mid-swoosh.


----------



## Larch

stoveliker said:


> Interesting little flames - only behind the flame guard in front of the cat. (Hour and a half after a pine reload). Tstat mid-swoosh.
> 
> View attachment 288295


I've had that same thing happen, and with jack pine also. Small flame dancing around  behind  flame shield, I never thought  much of it, smoke hot enough it lights of outside the cat I guess.  So much for no flame impingement!! Lol


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> Interesting little flames - only behind the flame guard in front of the cat. (Hour and a half after a pine reload). Tstat mid-swoosh.
> 
> View attachment 288295


That is alien


----------



## nellraq

Hi there – – have a couple of questions regarding the catalytic combustor in my stove.

Once the combustor is glowing red, how long does yours stay red before it’s back to gray?

Once it’s gray, is it still working, and if so how long does it stay active?

Mine does glow red… But doesn’t last very long… Maybe 10 minutes.  At this stage, there is some smoke coming out of the chimney – – no it’s not vapor!

yesterday I filled the stove completely – – it only burns well for about six hours. I came home to find Lots of logs that were only burned about 2/3 of the way, and lots  of chunks hockey puck size and larger.… The firebox was black but came to life a little once a turn the thermostat up.
The thermostat was set at. 2

I am burning mainly fir and birch that was processed about seven years ago and is stored in a shed.  It is dry!!

The stove has been used intermittently, and is nine years old.… Do you think it might be a faulty combust?

Would appreciate any help you can offer… And merry Christmas to everyone.

Whoops… Forgot to tell you that my Stove is a blaze king chinook 30


----------



## begreen

There shouldn't be smoke if the cat is in the active zone. The combustor should be good for 10-12,000 hrs of use. If it has a lot less than that, check to make sure it is not plugged with ash. Remove the flame shield, brush off any ash coating the front, and blow some air through it. Replace the flame shield and then try a new fire.
If the combustor has 10,000+ hrs on it, it's time to pick up a replacement.


----------



## stoveliker

It doesn't have to be glowing to work. But it can glow even when it's not working. As the cat has a lifetime of abouy 10-12 thousand hours, you might need a new cat.

The black chunks brightening up is normal when you run low.


----------



## nellraq

begreen said:


> There shouldn't be smoke if the cat is in the active zone. The combustor should be good for 10-12,000 hrs of use. If it has a lot less than that, check to make sure it is not plugged with ash. Remove the flame shield, brush off any ash coating the front, and blow some air through it. Replace the flame shield and then try a new fire.
> If the combustor has 10,000+ hrs on it, it's time to pick up a replacement.


Thanks for your reply be green. I did the cleanup on the Combuster yesterday… Did everything you suggested for the cleanup today. I have the steel combuster… And it looks like it’s brand new. It cleaned up really well. Unfortunately it didn’t seem to make a difference.
Time for a new combuster I guess… What the heck else could it be!
Any suggestions for ordering a new combuster from the states? I checked the dealer here and he wants 500 Canadian


----------



## stoveliker

Looking new doesn't mean anything about the state of the cat.
Midwesthearth sells carts (also on Amazon). Or your nearest BK dealer (you may be able to have it drop shipped to you).


----------



## Alpine1

Take a look here:








						Catalytic Combustors
					

Replacement Wood Stove Catalytic Combustors SAVE MONEY: Using a Midwest Hearth combustor in your catalytic wood stove converts smoke from burning wood into heat. This produces more usable BTUs from your wood. Catalytic stoves can help you save up to 1/3 on wood costs. For families who buy 2...




					midwesthearth.com
				



Excellent customer service.


----------



## MissMac

nellraq said:


> Thanks for your reply be green. I did the cleanup on the Combuster yesterday… Did everything you suggested for the cleanup today. I have the steel combuster… And it looks like it’s brand new. It cleaned up really well. Unfortunately it didn’t seem to make a difference.
> Time for a new combuster I guess… What the heck else could it be!
> Any suggestions for ordering a new combuster from the states? I checked the dealer here and he wants 500 Canadian


i bought one through the BK dealer this past summer and it was something like $430 CAD.  I don't think they're getting any cheaper...


----------



## Diabel

Finally back at the lake. Loaded the Princess up with some punky maple chunks and couple of dry rot hemlock hoping to burn that down to coals by evening. I am running the throttle at about 3:30 with some flames in the box. It is 15 out there….a bit nippy.


----------



## kennyp2339

If I'm not mistaking the Princess, Ashford, Sirco 30 cats are all the same size, you can buy a princess cat for $210 usd at midwesthearth.com = 4" x 10.6" x 2"


----------



## moresnow

nellraq said:


> Hi there – – have a couple of questions regarding the catalytic combustor in my stove.
> 
> Once the combustor is glowing red, how long does yours stay red before it’s back to gray?
> 
> Once it’s gray, is it still working, and if so how long does it stay active?
> 
> Mine does glow red… But doesn’t last very long… Maybe 10 minutes.  At this stage, there is some smoke coming out of the chimney – – no it’s not vapor!
> 
> yesterday I filled the stove completely – – it only burns well for about six hours. I came home to find Lots of logs that were only burned about 2/3 of the way, and lots  of chunks hockey puck size and larger.… The firebox was black but came to life a little once a turn the thermostat up.
> The thermostat was set at. 2
> 
> I am burning mainly fir and birch that was processed about seven years ago and is stored in a shed.  It is dry!!
> 
> The stove has been used intermittently, and is nine years old.… Do you think it might be a faulty combust?
> 
> Would appreciate any help you can offer… And merry Christmas to everyone.
> 
> Whoops… Forgot to tell you that my Stove is a blaze king chinook 30


Try sacrificing a load at setting 2:30. Or even 3. Just for testing purposes.


----------



## Highbeam

kennyp2339 said:


> If I'm not mistaking the Princess, Ashford, Sirco 30 cats are all the same size, you can buy a princess cat for $210 usd at midwesthearth.com = 4" x 10.6" x 2"



Maybe even consider a ceramic cat instead of the steel.


----------



## nellraq

Thanks for all your replies.  I think I will order one from Midwest Hearth.  What’s the difference between the ceramic and the steel combuster’s. The one I have right now is a steel one


----------



## Larch

I just ordered  one of the steel  10.6×4×2 from Midwest hearth to have a spare just in case. After shipping and taxes  it was still  over a 120 cheaper than the  local dealer for  the blaze king cat. If it  wasn't a  spare that will probably  sit on a shelf for years I think  I'd  of spent the extra  on the  blaze king part, always was a sucker for oem parts


----------



## Highbeam

nellraq said:


> Thanks for all your replies.  I think I will order one from Midwest Hearth.  What’s the difference between the ceramic and the steel combuster’s. The one I have right now is a steel one


This is a frequent question that deserves a sticky, maybe even in the new BK section of this forum. Though not many cat stoves have the option of steel vs. ceramic.

I’ve run several cats through my princess both steel and ceramic and even if the price was the same I’d choose ceramic. Any new cat will feel like a huge improvement over the worn out cat that you remove.

Due to supply chain problems and the essential nature of a catalyst, I have my next ceramic cat from Midwest hearth prepurchased and ready to install. Even though the current one is only about 50% through the 10-12k hour life expectancy.


----------



## Diabel

What is the shelf life of a spare cat?


----------



## ohlongarm

Alpine1 said:


> Take a look here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Catalytic Combustors
> 
> 
> Replacement Wood Stove Catalytic Combustors SAVE MONEY: Using a Midwest Hearth combustor in your catalytic wood stove converts smoke from burning wood into heat. This produces more usable BTUs from your wood. Catalytic stoves can help you save up to 1/3 on wood costs. For families who buy 2...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> midwesthearth.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent customer service.


Can't go wrong with those e folks, bought a spare because the price was right. However my original BK one is still strong at about 4 years burning 24/7 , PS my wood is 100% primo , maybe that helps.


----------



## ohlongarm

Diabel said:


> What is the shelf life of a spare cat?


In a cool dry place probably indefinite.


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> What is the shelf life of a spare cat?


It’s just a catalyst, so I would expect shelf stable forever. It’s not like a gallon of milk.


----------



## Diabel

Highbeam said:


> It’s just a catalyst, so I would expect shelf stable forever. It’s not like a gallon of milk.


Yes, I would think so. But maybe the coating has a shelf life.


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> Yes, I would think so. But maybe the coating has a shelf life.



Maybe like radioactive decay? The precious metals should be quite stable but any of our chemist members care to comment? 

By definition, a catalyst isn’t even consumed in the reaction while in the stove. It’s just covered up or changes shape due to high heat so as to not be effective. That’s why some folks have asked about the possibility of recycling. 

Good question Diabel. I would want to know if the cats have a “best by” date.


----------



## stoveliker

At room temperature the shelf life will be long enough. Decades if not longer (preferably packed sealed, dry - so if it doesn't come in a sealed bag, I'd put it in a large ziplock with a silica packed in there).


----------



## Diabel

I am one of those people that want to be prepared. I have a cat sitting in my Amazon cart. But if there is any degradation of any components/processes than I will wait before getting a spare one. I would gestimate…..I put about 800-1000h on the BK cat per heating season.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Maybe like radioactive decay? The precious metals should be quite stable but any of our chemist members care to comment?


You called?

No, no decay, radioactive or otherwise. And no degradation, either. I mean, sure, if you'd leave it open on a shelf and let dust gather in it, that might not be beneficial, but otherwise, no. Storage temperature and humidity won't hurt neither the base substrate nor the coating.


----------



## stoveliker

Just don't store it on top of your hot stove. ..


----------



## kennyp2339

nellraq said:


> Hi there – – have a couple of questions regarding the catalytic combustor in my stove.
> 
> Once the combustor is glowing red, how long does yours stay red before it’s back to gray?
> 
> Once it’s gray, is it still working, and if so how long does it stay active?
> 
> Mine does glow red… But doesn’t last very long… Maybe 10 minutes.  At this stage, there is some smoke coming out of the chimney – – no it’s not vapor!
> 
> yesterday I filled the stove completely – – it only burns well for about six hours. I came home to find Lots of logs that were only burned about 2/3 of the way, and lots  of chunks hockey puck size and larger.… The firebox was black but came to life a little once a turn the thermostat up.
> The thermostat was set at. 2
> 
> I am burning mainly fir and birch that was processed about seven years ago and is stored in a shed.  It is dry!!
> 
> The stove has been used intermittently, and is nine years old.… Do you think it might be a faulty combust?
> 
> Would appreciate any help you can offer… And merry Christmas to everyone.
> 
> Whoops… Forgot to tell you that my Stove is a blaze king chinook 30


I'd first pull off the smoke pipe and vacuum behind the cat, also hit the front of the cat with a little bit of compressed air to make sure there is no plugging.


----------



## Diabel

Tron said:


> You called?
> 
> No, no decay, radioactive or otherwise. And no degradation, either. I mean, sure, if you'd leave it open on a shelf and let dust gather in it, that might not be beneficial, but otherwise, no. Storage temperature and humidity won't hurt neither the base substrate nor the coating.


I might as well order one then, in these stupid times…..


----------



## jdonna

Merry Christmas everyone.

Wondering what everyone’s internal stack temp is while cruising?

400 internal, on medium or #2


----------



## Larch

jdonna said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> 
> Wondering what everyone’s internal stack temp is while cruising?
> 
> 400 internal, on medium or #2


400 internal, on medium also 
Merry Christmas


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> Merry Christmas everyone.
> 
> Wondering what everyone’s internal stack temp is while cruising?
> 
> 400 internal, on medium or #2


400 internal with softwoods on low burn.


----------



## Tron

For me, more like 200-250 on low. Double-walled pipe all the way. Cat is active, though. Not in the middle of the band, but well above the inactive zone.


----------



## begreen

Tron said:


> For me, more like 200-250 on low. Double-walled pipe all the way. Cat is active, though. Not in the middle of the band, but well above the inactive zone.


If that is surface temp on a single-wall stovepipe, then it's good. If that is a probe reading on double-wall stovepipe, then it is a bit too cool. Creosote will start to condense up above in the cooler parts of the flue with flue gas temps in that range.


----------



## jdonna

begreen said:


> If that is surface temp on a single-wall stovepipe, then it's good. If that is a probe reading on double-wall stovepipe, then it is a bit too cool. Creosote will start to condense up above in the cooler parts of the flue with flue gas temps in that range.


Yea that is why I posed the question.  I’ve seen specs on flue temps at 150-300 from some
Older BK literature. 

Consensus so far is showing 400 on a medium burn.


----------



## Larch

First cold night  with sirocco 30.2, loaded it last night at 730 and still pumping out heat at 5am, I'll get another  hour for sure before it's time to reload. I think it was a 50/50 mix of Douglas fir and  jack pine, It's-19°c(-2°f) out. I'm  going with straight tamarack next year so hopefully I can get longer burns for long work days, 12 hour days with usually 1.5 hour drives one way. If not I'm going king.
That's still amazing compared to my t5 alderlea, I'd  of been  up in the middle of the  night, but my kids were young so wife was home for the day shift. I'm  positive I'm going through 1/3 less firewood now to


----------



## Highbeam

Larch said:


> First cold night  with sirocco 30.2, loaded it last night at 730 and still pumping out heat at 5am, I'll get another  hour for sure before it's time to reload. I think it was a 50/50 mix of Douglas fir and  jack pine, It's-19°c(-2°f) out. I'm  going with straight tamarack next year so hopefully I can get longer burns for long work days, 12 hour days with usually 1.5 hour drives one way. If not I'm going king.
> That's still amazing compared to my t5 alderlea, I'd  of been  up in the middle of the  night, but my kids were young so wife was home for the day shift. I'm  positive I'm going through 1/3 less firewood now to


Nice. Was that 12 hour burn at the lowest burn rate? When you go back to long work days your house may cool some but I’d rather lower the burn rate to keep the fire going for your entire work day and then crank it up when you get home.


----------



## Larch

Highbeam said:


> Nice. Was that 12 hour burn at the lowest burn rate? When you go back to long work days your house may cool some but I’d rather lower the burn rate to keep the fire going for your entire work day and then crank it up when you get home.


That was about meduim to meduim  low, I  can definitely drop it down to whatever I want your right about that, I'm  thinking  at -30°c(-22°f) I'll have a hard time catching up, I'll  find out the next couple of days it's  supposed to drop to that.


----------



## Tumpin' Wood

I've been convinced I should have a spare cat on hand due to supply chain issues.  A few times each year we come to our unheated cabin  and  it  may be -10 F to 32 F inside.  I am wondering whether a ceramic cat would crack when a fire is lit.  Would burning a small amount of kindling before adding splits prevent this?  Am I better off to stick with steel cats?


----------



## kennyp2339

Tumpin' Wood said:


> I've been convinced I should have a spare cat on hand due to supply chain issues.  A few times each year we come to our unheated cabin  and  it  may be -10 F to 32 F inside.  I am wondering whether a ceramic cat would crack when a fire is lit.  Would burning a small amount of kindling before adding splits prevent this?  Am I better off to stick with steel cats?


Your by-pass is open and allows the firebox to gain heat at a relatively equal rate, I think you would be fine.


----------



## Tumpin' Wood

Thanks Kenny.  I had not thought of that.


----------



## Tron

begreen said:


> If that is surface temp on a single-wall stovepipe, then it's good. If that is a probe reading on double-wall stovepipe, then it is a bit too cool. Creosote will start to condense up above in the cooler parts of the flue with flue gas temps in that range.


The latter, probe in double-wall stovepipe. I know it's a bit too cool, but I can't go higher, the stove would bake me out of the house otherwise.
We didn't have too much creosote when we cleaned in fall, maybe one or two cups total.


----------



## Tron

Tumpin' Wood said:


> -10 F to 32 F inside.  I am wondering whether a ceramic cat would crack when a fire is lit.


Just think about it: you're talking about a difference of maybe 70-80 deg. F to an already heated house, and the operating temperature of the cat is somewhere in the 2000+ deg. F range. So no, doesn't matter at all.


----------



## BKVP

And this is why I have a King!  Big old house, expected single digits, but piece size matters!


----------



## Larch

BKVP said:


> And this is why I have a King!  Big old house, expected single digits, but piece size matters!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288541


I wish I  had the king, the sirocco 30.2 is doing the job but I'd love the longer burn time I had  in the -10°c weather or warmer. I didn't know  what I was  missing until I had  it. Lol


----------



## Dustin

I Heart my King


----------



## Diabel

I decided to try 12h reloads with the Princess, or to be precise…morning and night loads. I actually like this system a lot. It almost feels more natural. Maybe since I have been doing morning and night reloads with the VC for many years now (throw in a afternoon load as well). This way i just toss 4/5 splits in, relights are easier/faster since there are more hot coals, char the wood, set the air (considerably more open than on a 19/23h burn) and repeat 12h later. Granted, I am at my cottage with no set work or other commitments. Schedule is no issue.


----------



## Tron

Dustin said:


> I Heart my King


Come on, that was three years ago ;-)


----------



## BKVP

Tron said:


> Come on, that was three years ago ;-)


There's a little bit of "King" in all of us!


----------



## Nealm66

Diabel said:


> I decided to try 12h reloads with the Princess, or to be precise…morning and night loads. I actually like this system a lot. It almost feels more natural. Maybe since I have been doing morning and night reloads with the VC for many years now (throw in a afternoon load as well). This way i just toss 4/5 splits in, relights are easier/faster since there are more hot coals, char the wood, set the air (considerably more open than on a 19/23h burn) and repeat 12h later. Granted, I am at my cottage with no set work or other commitments. Schedule is no issue.


That’s what works the best for me as well if the weather permits. Way quicker for the reload but not sure if it’s good for the cat. Doesn’t work in the shoulder season at all - no


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> I decided to try 12h reloads with the Princess, or to be precise…morning and night loads. I actually like this system a lot. It almost feels more natural. Maybe since I have been doing morning and night reloads with the VC for many years now (throw in a afternoon load as well). This way i just toss 4/5 splits in, relights are easier/faster since there are more hot coals, char the wood, set the air (considerably more open than on a 19/23h burn) and repeat 12h later. Granted, I am at my cottage with no set work or other commitments. Schedule is no issue.


Aren’t you afraid it will runaway when loading a hot stove?….LOL, SMH.

I do the same thing when it’s really cold like now in the teens. Works great with way less time to get the fresh load going.


----------



## stoveliker

For me it's an evening full load followed by a noon-2-ish baby load. The trick is to size the baby load well enough so that it is ready for a full load in the evening again. (Also, I'm running from my basement and I think the additional heat losses from having the basement at 78 or so make me consume more wood.)


----------



## BKVP

I load in the very early a.m., around 4:00 before I leave for the office.  Then, I load again before retiring at 9:00 p.m.  My early loads are usually 75% of FBV.  When burning hardwoods with huge coal beds, 60% is more likely.  With softwoods, I can get more into the FB due to far smaller coal bed.

After cleaning out all the ash/coals on Saturday (about 8" deep) I was able to load the really large half rounds.  Woke up this morning and the FB was still plenty full!  I love Tamarack half rounds!!


----------



## MTASH

I don't think it got above 0F yesterday and we had -12F overnight.  I'm back to 12 hour reloads for the time being.


----------



## unimog1300

Stump shot said:


> Bk Ashford 30 loaded with doug fir,  split with a Eastonmade 5-way box wedge.
> 
> View attachment 288055


Eastonmade 👍👍👍


----------



## sacountry

BKVP said:


> Just read the post from our friend in Fairbanks about wife attire.  That will bust you up.  You could also remove the thermostat knob, but that would be a pain to reinstall each time.  Yup, let her win.


3 months in to the burn season and my wife is winning the battle of the tstat.  Fairly happy with the new BlazeKing purchase.   I fixed the seized handle with antisieze.  When I did, I noticed some charring on the backside of the handle.  Temps in the northwest have been hovering around zero so we've asked more of the stove, running it hotter inorder to keep up.  Happy to say the 3000 sq ft home hasn't dipped below 60 degrees as we're able to get it up to about 65 in the day.  Running it so hot has really increased the charring on the wood handle to the point that small charred pieces of it are coming off. 

Thoughts?  is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?


----------



## Diabel

sacountry said:


> Running it so hot has really increased the charring on the wood handle to the point that small charred pieces of it are coming off.






sacountry said:


> This is new. Which model is it? The Princess door handle is about 3” away from the stove body. How hot are you running the stove ?


----------



## showrguy

sacountry said:


> 3 months in to the burn season and my wife is winning the battle of the tstat.  Fairly happy with the new BlazeKing purchase.   I fixed the seized handle with antisieze.  When I did, I noticed some charring on the backside of the handle.  Temps in the northwest have been hovering around zero so we've asked more of the stove, running it hotter inorder to keep up.  Happy to say the 3000 sq ft home hasn't dipped below 60 degrees as we're able to get it up to about 65 in the day.  Running it so hot has really increased the charring on the wood handle to the point that small charred pieces of it are coming off.
> 
> Thoughts?  is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?


Yikes, 65*. What stove do you have ?


----------



## sacountry

showrguy said:


> Yikes, 65*. What stove do you have ?


Its the King40.  It's not an easy house to heat with an open format and vaulted ceilings with two ceiling fans constantly running.  The main open space is roughly 2000 sq ft.


----------



## sacountry

BK40.  The handle distance from the stove is the same on both the Princess and the BK40.


----------



## Diabel

sacountry said:


> BK40.  The handle distance from the stove is the same on both the Princess and the BK40.


Wow, you must be running it full throttle nonstop.


----------



## sacountry

Diabel said:


> Wow, you must be running it full throttle nonstop.


Correct.  With temps going below zero at night and given the space, we're asking a lot from it.  We're following all the recommendations, including straight, long, double wall pipe, wood only (no paper, cardboard, or anything else...just seasoned fir and larch.  I'm standing on the fact that you can't overheat this stove.  I do have a furnace but it's not behaving at the moment despite my pre-season testing so we are completely dependent on the BK40 to perform.


----------



## showrguy

I’m in the same boat as you, only bigger …
Did you install an OAK ?
I did after the 1s two heating seasons, made a big difference in my place..
You could try a temporary one to see if it helps..


----------



## sacountry

showrguy said:


> I’m in the same boat as you, only bigger …
> Did you install an OAK ?
> I did after the 1s two heating seasons, made a big difference in my place..
> You could try a temporary one to see if it helps..


An OAK?


----------



## Highbeam

sacountry said:


> An OAK?


Outside Air Connection( or kit). To supply combustion air to the stove from outside the house.


----------



## Stump shot

sacountry said:


> 3 months in to the burn season and my wife is winning the battle of the tstat.  Fairly happy with the new BlazeKing purchase.   I fixed the seized handle with antisieze.  When I did, I noticed some charring on the backside of the handle.  Temps in the northwest have been hovering around zero so we've asked more of the stove, running it hotter inorder to keep up.  Happy to say the 3000 sq ft home hasn't dipped below 60 degrees as we're able to get it up to about 65 in the day.  Running it so hot has really increased the charring on the wood handle to the point that small charred pieces of it are coming off.
> 
> Thoughts?  is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?


Do you have a fan kit on the king?


----------



## kennyp2339

sacountry said:


> Thoughts? is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?


Just the door handle? have you checked the by-pass handle too? If its only the door handle, check the door gasket and make sure it passes muster, a leaky door is detrimental to your cat life.


----------



## stoveliker

sacountry said:


> Thoughts?  is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?



Not to my knowledge. I suggest to contact @BKVP  because this should not be happening.

I know of a user (not King but a 30 box) in AK that runs full throttle often/long. I have not heard of the handle charring before.
To me this suggests that something is wrong.


----------



## sacountry

Stump shot said:


> Do you have a fan kit on the king?


Yes


----------



## sacountry

kennyp2339 said:


> Just the door handle? have you checked the by-pass handle too? If its only the door handle, check the door gasket and make sure it passes muster, a leaky door is detrimental to your cat life.


The by-pass handle is fine.  I did the dollar bill test on all sides of the door gasket.  It held the dollar tight on all sides.


----------



## sacountry

Highbeam said:


> Outside Air Connection( or kit). To supply combustion air to the stove from outside the house.


Nope.  I don't have one of those.


----------



## Highbeam

sacountry said:


> Thoughts? is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?



I've seen lots of pictures of charred door handles on BKs. Mine is fine after all the years but I don't run mine as hot as often as some folks do.  I would just leave it charred and use it unless it splits and falls off. Consider it a patina.


----------



## Diabel

My BK has been running since last Fri. The wooden handle is warm to touch I can easily hold my hand to it. I remember looking at few old VC stoves with bypass wooden handles charred (stove body side) and the handle is about 2” from the stove body. These stoves were grossly over fired.


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> I've seen lots of pictures of charred door handles on BKs. Mine is fine after all the years but I don't run mine as hot as often as some folks do.  I would just leave it charred and use it unless it splits and falls off. Consider it a patina.


Must be full loads of black locust or ironwood running wide open !


----------



## sacountry

jdonna said:


> Must be full loads of black locust or ironwood running wide open !


I'm running wide open quite often with the subzero temps, but using woods native to Northwest MT.  Fir and larch ....larch is awesome BTW! super dense with high BTU output,  but nothing else other than a rare log of birch.


----------



## MissMac

stoveliker said:


> Not to my knowledge. I suggest to contact @BKVP  because this should not be happening.
> 
> I know of a user (not King but a 30 box) in AK that runs full throttle often/long. I have not heard of the handle charring before.
> To me this suggests that something is wrong.


I've run my stove on full throttle lots.  The colour has faded some on the wooden handle, but nothing that is charred.


----------



## BKVP

I have charred a wood handle on the loading door on 1 King and 1 other new non Blaze King stove I purchased.  If you have a temperature gun, please PM me any readings you might get.  I can show them to engineers.  In the mean time, just PM you name/address and we can send a replacement handle.  Are the adjoining wall masonry/noncombustible?  You can PM a picture of the install too if you don't mind.

BKVP


----------



## jdonna

sacountry said:


> I'm running wide open quite often with the subzero temps, but using woods native to Northwest MT.  Fir and larch ....larch is awesome BTW! super dense with high BTU output,  but nothing else other than a rare log





sacountry said:


> I'm running wide open quite often with the subzero temps, but using woods native to Northwest MT.  Fir and larch ....larch is awesome BTW! super dense with high BTU output,  but nothing else other than a rare log of birch.


What’s your internal stack temp wide open after it settles ?


----------



## sacountry

jdonna said:


> What’s your internal stack temp wide open after it settles ?


I don't know.  I don't have a gauge inside the stack.  I can tell by simple touch that the outside wall of the stack is only warm to the touch not hot.


----------



## Diabel

sacountry said:


> I don't know.  I don't have a gauge inside the stack.  I can tell by simple touch that the outside wall of the stack is only warm to the touch not hot.


At 400* you will not be able to touch the ddl pipe for more than 2sec


----------



## Diabel

Something is odd here


----------



## Highbeam

Diabel said:


> At 400* you will not be able to touch the ddl pipe for more than 2sec


Uh, that depends a lot on the thickness of one’s skin. Also “warm” is pretty subjective and when compared to the 1600 degree cat  just below the stove top, most things are much cooler.


----------



## charger4406

I've run my Ashford often with full loads of ironwood and hickory also
on high setting, flue temps around 700 internal temp. and the handle 
still looks new, haven't had the chance to get the king that hot yet


----------



## sacountry

Diabel said:


> At 400* you will not be able to touch the ddl pipe for more than 2sec


Definitely one of the more subjective tests, but I can touch the pipe for longer than 2 seconds.  The handle on the other sometimes less than a second when she's piping.


----------



## JKanor

I finally got a solid thermocouple setup for my Princess. Using a K type thermocouple hooked to a PID controller that my dad got me from his work. The thermocouple has a working temp of up to 2000* and is used for aviation EGTs and has a sealed tip. I was easily able to start a 1/8npt tap in the factory cat temp hole to thread it. I ordered the thermocouple with a 1/8npt compression fitting to set its depth.

From what I've seen, the analog thermometers (stock and the numbered condor) are pretty inflated. While charring a fresh load the TC sees 1100-1300* and when turned down and letting the Stat do its thing, it's usually between 750-1150*. 12 hours into a burn when everything is black dried out charcoal, it hangs between 550-750* depending on the Stat. This is with a fairly fresh ceramic cat from midwest (75-100 hours on it).

Overall, it satisfies my OCD to see digital #s from across the room rather than a lagging analog thermometer.


----------



## BKVP

charger4406 said:


> I've run my Ashford often with full loads of ironwood and hickory also
> on high setting, flue temps around 700 internal temp. and the handle
> still looks new, haven't had the chance to get the king that hot yet


Your handle is different,  on a different firebox with some jacketing.   Tough to compare the two...


----------



## shgRUSS

Winter is here, on 8hr reloads. Whole house stays 72-74*f (very well insulated 1350sqft). Kinda wish I had a king now, in fall I could not keep a fire going all day and had to relight every night so I guess I am  balanced right.  I never run wide open except for a few minutes at reload, find the Princess loves 1/3-2-3 of WOT(most efficient). I had lubed my dial shaft and it turns nice now, I can turn the dial down and hear exactly when the flap closes. This seems to be where the thermostat is most sensitive to the house temp. If the house is a touch warm turn the dial till you here the flap and leave it there( temp will drop a degree and then the thermostat start to open up and maintain).  If house is perfect temp (I shoot for 73*f ),  turn down dial till you hear flap close and tweak it back up just a tiny little bit.


----------



## stoveliker

Can you explain what you mean by  1/3-2-3 of WOT?


----------



## kennyp2339

stoveliker said:


> Can you explain what you mean by  1/3-2-3 of WOT?


WOT - My guess is wide open thermostat


----------



## BKVP

Mega load this morning! 78lbs, 3 layers of 5 year old tamarack loaded! Yes, that's 1 big piece of cherry in top center....You cant see bottom row, stove 9" deep.


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> Mega load this morning! 78lbs, 3 layers of 5 year old tamarack loaded! Yes, that's 1 big piece of cherry in top center....You cant see bottom row, stove 9" deep.
> 
> View attachment 288780



You need to also split a bit smaller to fill up all those un-allowed airgaps I'm seeing... ;-)


----------



## shgRUSS

stoveliker said:


> Can you explain what you mean by  1/3-2-3 of WOT?


Wide open throttle 6 o’clock.  Your fully closed flap vs dial position will vary with your stove and house temp but the way I look at it is how far open the flap is tells how hard you are running the stove. For me WOT is pretty frantic in the fire box and I believe the cat does not have enough time to fully work its magic. The high setting I like for max heat is nice slow rolling flames, the coals glowing giving off lots of radiation with the cat chewing on the rest and running at or close to the top of the active range.


----------



## stoveliker

shgRUSS said:


> Wide open throttle 6 o’clock.  Your fully closed flap vs dial position will vary with your stove and house temp but the way I look at it is how far open the flap is tells how hard you are running the stove. For me WOT is pretty frantic in the fire box and I believe the cat does not have enough time to fully work its magic. The high setting I like for max heat is nice slow rolling flames, the coals glowing giving off lots of radiation with the cat chewing on the rest and running at or close to the top of the active range.



Thanks. I agree with the "enough time" remark.


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> Mega load this morning


We have cold weather coming in Sunday night, I will take your challenge, clean the ash out and load to the gills with some select oak & ash. For now, its just 4 splits and rip for 12hrs, 38deg f outside


----------



## shgRUSS

I have noticed a marked difference in heat from the stove with the same cat probe position.  Lots of coals under a fresh load with cat probe pegged the stove is dumping heat.  Stove black boxed or just above (odd secondary flame), probe is also pegged but much less overall heat from the stove.  Stove with lots of glowing coals, cat probe can be only 1/3 into active but lots of heat from the stove. It would be neat to know the btu  range on the cat alone.


----------



## kennyp2339

shgRUSS said:


> I have noticed a marked difference in heat from the stove with the same cat probe position.  Lots of coals under a fresh load with cat probe pegged the stove is dumping heat.  Stove black boxed or just above (odd secondary flame), probe is also pegged but much less overall heat from the stove.  Stove with lots of glowing coals, cat probe can be only 1/3 into active but lots of heat from the stove. It would be neat to know the btu  range on the cat alone.


I would suspect thats the low end of the rating so 18k to 25k per hour


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> We have cold weather coming in Sunday night, I will take your challenge, clean the ash out and load to the gills with some select oak & ash. For now, its just 4 splits and rip for 12hrs, 38deg f outside


We'll be 5 above tomorrow....warmer in Kodiak!


----------



## Nealm66

I’ve been burning press logs during the day and fir at night. Couldn’t find the Idaho logs close by, everyone was sold out. Burning these ones from tractor supply. They’re ok and cheaper but definitely not as good as the Idaho logs. Let’s me burn a little hotter, longer than the fir. Opened it up last weekend and just kept feeding a couple pieces of fir, keeping it at a nice hot output but not scary. My handle got kinda hot but don’t see any discoloring. So nice to have the control, run it hot or low and slow


----------



## BKVP

They revised it to 3F tomorrow.   Better stock up for next 4 days!


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> They revised it to 3F tomorrow. Better stock up for next 4 days!


Your son having any epic new years eve parties at your house this year?


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> They revised it to 3F tomorrow.   Better stock up for next 4 days!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288788



Is that rain on a few splits?


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> Your son having any epic house new years eve parties at your house this year?


That son moved!  Sold his house 3 miles away, moved to Walla Walla WA.  Made a killing on his house I remodeled and put down 75%, in cash, on new house.  

No more taking my wood!  Just taking my halibut and elk!  Shot monster bull this year but can't post picture here.


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> Is that rain on a few splits?


Yes...packed in this a.m. from wheel barrow.


----------



## BKVP

_plenty of dry 3-5 year old wood.
	

		
			
		

		
	


_


----------



## MissMac

BKVP said:


> _plenty of dry 3-5 year old wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288804
> _


That is a nice collection of firewood right there.  Curious - when you're putting those large half-rounds into the stove, how long are you running them on high before dialing down?


----------



## shgRUSS

Sounds like some great eating and lots of fun. Got a nice bull too this fall, just lake trout and walleye in the freezer for fish.  Halibut is like deer hunting, one fish goes a long way


----------



## BKVP

MissMac said:


> That is a nice collection of firewood right there.  Curious - when you're putting those large half-rounds into the stove, how long are you running them on high before dialing down?


About 15 minutes.  This wood is very dry.  Using a Delmhorst J2000, set for fir, the fresh split is always under 15%.  I like keeping about 12 cords under cover.  I can use 3 for myself and help out others if they run out.


----------



## charger4406

BKVP said:


> They revised it to 3F tomorrow. Better stock up for next 4 days!


Kind of wish we where having that weather here, 41 today and tomorrow,
still waiting for snowmobile weather.


----------



## BKVP

charger4406 said:


> Kind of wish we where having that weather here, 41 today and tomorrow,
> still waiting for snowmobile weather.


I'm seeing trailer after trailer heading up the mountain...4-6 snow machines each.


----------



## Highbeam

I’m really liking the constant teens and 20s for outdoor temperatures. This is pretty cold for western Washington. It makes running the princess really easy. Once in the morning and once in the evening I pitch five more splits into the firebox on top of coals and other remaining fuel. No kindling, no torch, no special Tetris games, just constant heat and a warm house. Running at 3 o’clock on the stat. 

I do char the fresh load because it seems to minimize emissions, chimney gunk, and keeps the glass pretty clean. 

Keeping the shop warm is a different story. That big noncat takes a lot of tending and fuel but to be fair it is undersized.


----------



## Nealm66

My princess likes the cold way better than those mild days we were having. Im definitely not enjoying it too much. Hands feel like they’re made of rusty tin lol. Wish I had what it takes for one of those desk jobs. Almost done though, back to rain here in a few


----------



## Diabel

BKVP said:


> I'm seeing trailer after trailer heading up the mountain...4-6 snow machines each.


Crazy sport! I still prefer the wide boards attached to my feet


----------



## panderson03

sacountry said:


> 3 months in to the burn season and my wife is winning the battle of the tstat.  Fairly happy with the new BlazeKing purchase.   I fixed the seized handle with antisieze.  When I did, I noticed some charring on the backside of the handle.  Temps in the northwest have been hovering around zero so we've asked more of the stove, running it hotter inorder to keep up.  Happy to say the 3000 sq ft home hasn't dipped below 60 degrees as we're able to get it up to about 65 in the day.  Running it so hot has really increased the charring on the wood handle to the point that small charred pieces of it are coming off.
> 
> Thoughts?  is the wood handle something that needs to replaced semi regularly like the CAT?


we have the same experience with our wood handle


----------



## clancey

Would not you think that they would have put a metal handle on there?  clancey


----------



## panderson03

jdonna said:


> Must be full loads of black locust or ironwood running wide open !


that's our scenario. ironwood pretty much fulltime.


----------



## panderson03

BKVP said:


> I have charred a wood handle on the loading door on 1 King and 1 other new non Blaze King stove I purchased.  If you have a temperature gun, please PM me any readings you might get.  I can show them to engineers.  In the mean time, just PM you name/address and we can send a replacement handle.  Are the adjoining wall masonry/noncombustible?  You can PM a picture of the install too if you don't mind.
> 
> BKVP


sir, does your offer apply to our scenario to? happy to send pics of our set up. thank you


----------



## BKVP

clancey said:


> Would not you think that they would have put a metal handle on there?  clancey


Metal handles do not pass temperature tests.  The exception being the gold plated coil style....


----------



## BKVP

panderson03 said:


> sir, does your offer apply to our scenario to? happy to send pics of our set up. thank you


PM me pictures....


----------



## panderson03

BKVP said:


> PM me pictures....


will do. headed back up tomorrow. thank you


----------



## jdonna

I added an icc damper with most the holes in the damper plate modified in my horizontal section going in the snout, mainly to get the princess further out from brick chimney.  There was some good older posts about the thermostat being fooled by reflective heat.   

.07”measured below the damper  on a long settled medium burn with the damper 3/4 shut. 296 degree temp.   24 degrees outside and light wind.  I’ve seen specs of .05” on high and .03-.04” on medium.   Should be interesting to work with the -20 temps and high winds forecast this weekend.  I’ve measured draft without a fire at .06”-.07” at times.

I fight a lot of variables, lots of sub zero conditions and days of very high winds.  

19 feet of insulated smooth liner, 3 feet of double wall, 2-45 degree and also run a 3 foot section of class on top of the liner in a center brick chimney. When I get a south or north wind it hits the gable end and I get some crazy eddy currents, this helps get the stack in less disturbed air and also carry’s the smoke plume further away from the house on reloads and cold starts.

I’m going to further test the damper.  I’m hoping to find a resolve on the occasional hinge side light smoke smell when you stick your nose up to.  I think ashfuls theory of strong draft contributing to it has some validity.   I plan on replacing the door gasket again as a good measure, can’t seem to get an even tension all the way around.  The upper right 1/3 of the door is a bit looser.

Hope everyone is safe and blessed new year!


----------



## jdonna

Not as impressive as BKVP mega splits but challenge accepted ha.  Much love for the dead red elm.  I got tired of burning ash, needed to change things up.  Coals are annoying with red elm when it’s cold.


----------



## ABMax24

Diabel said:


> Crazy sport! I still prefer the wide boards attached to my feet



I used to enjoy skiing at one point, never did care for snowboarding, then I got on a sled....

Gravity is cool and all, but a 600lb machine with 215hp is a totally different game.

It's probably been 12 years since I put on a pair of skis.


----------



## clancey

On my stove I do not like how it opens and its all metal and the air adjuster is all metal and I do not like it because it gets too hot...so I think I see what you mean by temperature test (posting1088)..Also (jdonna) that's a impressive load and I looked up the stoves and they sure handle a lot..nice stoves and inserts as well...I love pictures...clancey


----------



## BKVP

clancey said:


> On my stove I do not like how it opens and its all metal and the air adjuster is all metal and I do not like it because it gets too hot...so I think I see what you mean by temperature test (posting1088)..Also (jdonna) that's a impressive load and I looked up the stoves and they sure handle a lot..nice stoves and inserts as well...I love pictures...clancey


I hope you're far from the fires!  My brother and his family were evacuated last night...


----------



## charger4406

BKVP said:


> My brother and his family were evacuated last night.


I hope they were able to take some belongings with
them and that their home will not be affected.


----------



## Diabel

I have been running my Princess on (more less) 12h reloads. I like this system a lot. Last night, the closest fuel in my wood rack was sugar maple. I did not feel like reaching deep in the piles to get hemlock and basswood. Loaded the stove with 6 solid splits of sugar maple. It is 1:00pm now and the stove could easily go for another 4/5h. What happened to my 12h shifts……..


----------



## Dieselhead

BKVP said:


> They revised it to 3F tomorrow.   Better stock up for next 4 days!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288788


I see your ash lip is facing up. Is that a recent redesign?


----------



## Highbeam

Dieselhead said:


> I see your ash lip is facing up. Is that a recent redesign?


It is. I always wondered why the previous  generation’s lip was turned down.


----------



## moresnow

Diabel said:


> I have been running my Princess on (more less) 12h reloads. I like this system a lot. Last night, the closest fuel in my wood rack was sugar maple. I did not feel like reaching deep in the piles to get hemlock and basswood. Loaded the stove with 6 solid splits of sugar maple. It is 1:00pm now and the stove could easily go for another 4/5h. What happened to my 12h shifts……..


Your Princess went on a diet?


----------



## Nealm66

Presto logs @ 14 hours after I cranked it  up on high for a bit


----------



## nellraq

How many logs do you put in at a time?


----------



## Nealm66

As many as I can fit. I think these are called home fire logs? About 1$ a piece. I was able to get 3 pieces of fir and a couple more of those things on last night about 9 and turned it down the the flapper setting. This am there’s still some of those things left so basically 24hours with about 2.5 hours on high. Fir was completely burned away. Cranked it up again about 530 and will add fir while I have the day off to feed it. Keeping the house toasty and got down to 19f last night. Wish I could have found the Idaho logs, they seem to do the best but cost a bit more. Happy new year !


----------



## Nealm66

I’ve got to go cut a tree off a friends neighbor’s house. Yaaay! ( not) this is all I got to go by.


----------



## Diabel

Nealm66 said:


> I’ve got to go cut a tree off a friends neighbor’s house. Yaaay! ( not) this is all I got to go by.
> 
> View attachment 288873


This does not look like fun. Be careful out there.


----------



## stoveliker

In the cold at least the sap will be less sticky? But use safety line if you go up...


----------



## Nealm66

I’m going to see if they can wait a day or 2 and let some snow melt lol. Maybe get a few more pics so I can at least have an idea what to bring. Might be elderly and not able to get better pics so I’m going to have my buddy get over there so I can have something more to go by. Pretty good size fir in that neighborhood. I probably won’t have time for pics but I’ll try if I have to do anything crafty


----------



## jdonna

Anyone know the differences of the princess pe1006/pej1006 vs the 30.2?  I’m curious.


----------



## JKanor

jdonna said:


> Anyone know the differences of the princess pe1006/pej1006 vs the 30.2?  I’m curious.


I believe they were just emissions recertifications that spawned a new model # (could be wrong). Although the newer ones have the ash lip under the door flipped up (the right way). Wish I could cut mine out and flip it around.


----------



## jdonna

JKanor said:


> I believe they were just emissions recertifications that spawned a new model # (could be wrong). Although the newer ones have the ash lip under the door flipped up (the right way). Wish I could cut mine out and flip it around.


Thought the same thing.  Probably would be breaking some law ha!


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> Anyone know the differences of the princess pe1006/pej1006 vs the 30.2?  I’m curious.



Are you asking the differences between the 30.2 and the princess? There are several differences besides aesthetics. The biggest one is the 6" deep belly on the princess.


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> Are you asking the differences between the 30.2 and the princess? There are several differences besides aesthetics. The biggest one is the 6" deep belly on the princess.


Correction. The older princess pe1006 vs the princess 32.


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> Correction. The older princess pe1006 vs the princess 32.


I’d get the 32. Tested very very well for low emissions and high efficiency. Supposedly the same cat as always so cheap cats. The flue collar is taller which should help with the weld blob interference.


----------



## JKanor

Highbeam said:


> I’d get the 32. Tested very very well for low emissions and high efficiency. Supposedly the same cat as always so cheap cats. The flue collar is taller which should help with the weld blob interference.


Any idea what the operating differences are besides the flue collar?


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> I’d get the 32. Tested very very well for low emissions and high efficiency. Supposedly the same cat as always so cheap cats. The flue collar is taller which should help with the weld blob interference.


Gotcha.  I have a 1006 princess currently just inquiring about any major revisions or upgrades.


----------



## Highbeam

JKanor said:


> Any idea what the operating differences are besides the flue collar?


The base is not welded on like with my ultra. You can choose the base. The convection deck is now built in and standard. Taller collar, better emissions specs, properly upturned ash lip. That’s all I have been able to figure out so far. 

Oh and the replacement bypass gasket retainers are now one piece instead of multiple pieces per BK but still welded in. 

The emissions rating dropped from like 2.5 gph to 0.4! That’s huge but I don’t know if that reflects luck, new test methods, or stove improvements. 

Bottom line, nothing looks to have gotten worse with the new version and quite possibly things are better so no need to search for the old version or to feel like you missed out.


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> Gotcha.  I have a 1006 princess currently just inquiring about any major revisions or upgrades.


Only thing you could upgrade is the new style door latch if yours is like mine with the welded interior nut and round latch.


----------



## Silenced38

How high should the cat gauge read during normal operation. Tstat set in mid range, been burning over an hour.  It is out of the white near the bottom of the gauge. And any advice on running the princess?   Thanks


----------



## kennyp2339

Brand new cats are overactive, as long as your firebox doesnt have crazy flames (maybe it has no flames atm) the cat will eventually settle down after a few weeks of burning.


----------



## Silenced38

Ok thanks. This only the 3rd burn in this stove. I'm transitioning from an Eglander Madison. The Princess door glass is mostly black, even tho I'm burning above mid been on the Tstat. I'm assuming that is just the nature of the beast.


----------



## kennyp2339

Silenced38 said:


> Ok thanks. This only the 3rd burn in this stove. I'm transitioning from an Eglander Madison. The Princess door glass is mostly black, even tho I'm burning above mid been on the Tstat. I'm assuming that is just the nature of the beast.


Yes, things will settle with time, just adjust your t-stat for your desired heat output and let the stove do the work, once the cat settles some you will find the needle hanging around 1 - 3 o'clock, on high char burns it will be around 4 o'clock.
Best thing I did for my princess was to install the blower kit and convection deck, made the stove a great heater, even on low output with the fan running as low as possible.


----------



## Diabel

Where is the thermometer needle pointing when stove is cold? These thermometers are not very accurate and or it maybe mis calibrated.


----------



## BKVP

Let the Wood Stove BK Tetris begin!


----------



## BKVP

5 minutes later


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> Presto logs @ 14 hours after I cranked it  up on high for a bit
> 
> View attachment 288866


I'd advise no more than 2-3 logs per load.  Depending upon log manufacturer, there can be 40k-60k Btu's in each log!


----------



## Nealm66

Dang. I’ve been stuffing it full of those things since last winter. They actually seem to burn cooler than Doug fir when I’ve cranked them up after they’ve been simmering for about 12-14 hours. I hardly ever do it except in these extreme colds. Ive also burned a bunch of the fire brick things. Really weird thing is they turn down lower than Doug fir as well during the milder weather. Especially the Idaho logs. They’ll hover right on the edge of active cat and my thermometer will be at a lower heat for crazy long times. I get firewood for free but I really like the control of the press logs. Have you tested any of these and maybe it’s actually not hurting anything? I definitely can get away from using them if they’re causing damage that I’m not noticing


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> Dang. I’ve been stuffing it full of those things since last winter. They actually seem to burn cooler than Doug fir when I’ve cranked them up after they’ve been simmering for about 12-14 hours. I hardly ever do it except in these extreme colds. Ive also burned a bunch of the fire brick things. Really weird thing is they turn down lower than Doug fir as well during the milder weather. Especially the Idaho logs. They’ll hover right on the edge of active cat and my thermometer will be at a lower heat for crazy long times. I get firewood for free but I really like the control of the press logs. Have you tested any of these and maybe it’s actually not hurting anything? I definitely can get away from using them if they’re causing damage that I’m not noticing


We have sent logs to labs for testing. The lab tests them for composition.   One brand test was very high in sodium.  When I contacted the fuel mfg they admitted they have little control over feedstock.  Drift wood, melamine and over chemical concentrates are detected.

As to overfiring, what if you forgot to close the bypass or had door ajar to get them going and forgot to close it?  Damage to a stove would be the least of your worries.  2-3 at a time.


----------



## Jeff in Maine

BKVP said:


> I have charred a wood handle on the loading door on 1 King and 1 other new non Blaze King stove I purchased.  If you have a temperature gun, please PM me any readings you might get.  I can show them to engineers.  In the mean time, just PM you name/address and we can send a replacement handle.  Are the adjoining wall masonry/noncombustible?  You can PM a picture of the install too if you don't mind.
> 
> BKVP


Afternoon Chris
I too had a burned door handle and Chris fixed me up with a new one. I still run the old/ original one as it still functions, but the stove side of it is about 30% burned off where is screws on to the steel portion of the lever.


----------



## jdonna

Jeff in Maine said:


> Afternoon Chris
> I too had a burned door handle and Chris fixed me up with a new one. I still run the old/ original one as it still functions, but the stove side of it is about 30% burned off where is screws on to the steel portion of the lever.


Impressive.  What do you run your stove at on the stat and what’s your stack temp?


----------



## Jeff in Maine

I have no idea what the stack temp is i run the thermostat between 3-4 or so I guess. I don't have any technical temp info to give you i never installed any pipe temp probe not that important to me , I run it on 3 or so overnight and 4 or so during the day.


----------



## ratsrepus

jdonna said:


> Impressive.  What do you run your stove at on the stat and what’s your stack temp?


I dont think blaze king guys pay much attention to stack temp.  I dont


----------



## Jeff in Maine

ratsrepus said:


> I dont think blaze king guys pay much attention to stack temp.  I dont


that and I paid 3/4 of a zillion bucks for the double slip pipe I wasn't about to begin by drilling hoes in it.


----------



## jdonna

ratsrepus said:


> I dont think blaze king guys pay much attention to stack temp.  I dont


I guess I’m a odd ball technical outlier in the BK club.


----------



## jdonna

-21f 15 mph n wind.  Thermostat set on 2 on the letter m.  525 internal stack temp.  Damper 3/4 shut.  I’m not comfortable pushing my setup much harder.  10 hours of good heat.

That’s where my questions come on what people see their stack temps at running wide open ? 

Tetris!


----------



## bikedennis

After the fire is stabilized what is optimal stove pipe temp with single wall pipe and magnetic thermometer with Sirocco 30.2?  What is optimal stove top temp?


----------



## BKVP

jdonna said:


> -21f 15 mph n wind.  Thermostat set on 2 on the letter m.  525 internal stack temp.  Damper 3/4 shut.  I’m not comfortable pushing my setup much harder.  10 hours of good heat.
> 
> That’s where my questions come on what people see their stack temps at running wide open ?
> 
> Tetris!
> 
> View attachment 288976
> View attachment 288977
> View attachment 288978


See how your 3 large pieces are sitting on 5" of coals?  That's why I switched over to my Tamarack.   I can't get nearly as much fuel in each time when burning locust, maple, walnut and cherry.  The cooling properties are evident.

I like the end grain image.  Do you have any really large diameter pieces?  If so, you can split some of the smaller rounds to max out load density.

Good looking load...


----------



## Diabel

To keep the game on. Sorry no small splits in my collection


----------



## clancey

Diabel:   All you people are crazy---Do you think  that I could load my stove that full? (JA Roby Sirius) Three big logs like that and how long does it burn?  I hope I can do that too...clancey


----------



## jdonna

BKVP said:


> See how your 3 large pieces are sitting on 5" of coals?  That's why I switched over to my Tamarack.   I can't get nearly as much fuel in each time when burning locust, maple, walnut and cherry.  The cooling properties are evident.
> 
> I like the end grain image.  Do you have any really large diameter pieces?  If so, you can split some of the smaller rounds to max out load density.
> 
> Good looking load...


Solid mess of clinkers and some ash below a couple inches of coals.  No time to clean out when it’s this cold. 

I don’t have quite the belly of the beast like your king with the princess. 

All hardwood in my area.  The red elm coals really throw some heat when it’s above 20 degrees, annoying when it’s -21.


----------



## BKVP

jdonna said:


> Solid mess of clinkers and some ash below a couple inches of coals.  No time to clean out when it’s this cold.
> 
> I don’t have quite the belly of the beast like your king with the princess.
> 
> All hardwood in my area.  The red elm coals really throw some heat when it’s above 20 degrees, annoying when it’s -21.


And you're spot on about "this cold".  Because you burn at a higher burn rate, you also increase amount of coals.  I love hardwoods in shoulder season when they can simmer and cook down.  When it's cold, baby I'm burning softwoods!


----------



## jdonna

I’ve found that burning full loads of ash do not leave a lot of coals in the BK.


----------



## stoveliker

I use oak when it gets cold (tomorrow night lower 20s- that's good cold here, not crazy COLD, but better than 30-40 as  now).
And as I need less than two full loads a day, I do a baby load of whatever I have available during the day to tide me over to the real load in the evening. That baby load burns down any coals that are left. And as it's small, I can run it higher.
It leaves a nice coal bed to start the evening load.

But tonight I have just pine going. Only 30 outside.


----------



## BKVP

We are warming up!  Winds at 50 mph...blasting warm air.  Was 16 at noon, now 34!  Watch for flooding next....


----------



## Poindexter

I switched to burning spruce only several years ago because of the relatively lengthy coaling stage of birch, at the instigation of some of our Canadians here.

Right now it is is -32 dF with the usual reminder on the local news that exposed flesh will be frostbitten in ten minutes with our little bit of wind making wind chills -50 dF and colder.

I don't want coals in my stove right now.  I want baseball sized globs of sap giving off black smoke to feed the cat, and I will do have what I have to do to keep the stove full and the combustor high active.

If I had access to good hardwood with lengthy coaling stage I would use it in the shoulder seasons.

God bless y'all Canadian users here for setting me on the straight and narrow path.


----------



## Todd

BKVP said:


> And you're spot on about "this cold".  Because you burn at a higher burn rate, you also increase amount of coals.  I love hardwoods in shoulder season when they can simmer and cook down.  When it's cold, baby I'm burning softwoods!


I used to be a hardwood snob but now that I own 23 acres of Aspen I find this statement to be true. Aspen works great for these sub zero temps I’ve been mixing in a few better hardwood splits for a good overnight burn works out well.


----------



## kennyp2339

jdonna said:


> -21f 15 mph n wind. Thermostat set on 2 on the letter m. 525 internal stack temp. Damper 3/4 shut. I’m not comfortable pushing my setup much harder. 10 hours of good heat.


While never anywhere near -25, I pretty much run just like you, .10 on the draft w/ 3/4 shut is right around were I settle, maybe .07-.08 area.
I've never ran wide open either for fear or wrecking something, at our coldest I've been a 3 o'clock which had some pretty vigorous primary and secondary flames, clean stack plume at all times to.


----------



## ratsrepus

jdonna said:


> I’ve found that burning full loads of ash do not leave a lot of coals in the BK.


that's  the great thing about ash, its getting scarce here in Michigan.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Mine is looking pretty wimpy compared to some of you guys. I usually shoot for 12 hour reloads based on my work schedule and the weather (which has been mild this year), so the amount I pack in can vary.


----------



## BKVP

TheElementalCashew said:


> Mine is looking pretty wimpy compared to some of you guys. I usually shoot for 12 hour reloads based on my work schedule and the weather (which has been mild this year), so the amount I pack in can vary.
> 
> View attachment 289022


I think it looks just fine.  Looks like oak, mostly with the bark removed or haven fallen off.


----------



## MissMac

Poindexter said:


> I switched to burning spruce only several years ago because of the relatively lengthy coaling stage of birch, at the instigation of some of our Canadians here.
> 
> Right now it is is -32 dF with the usual reminder on the local news that exposed flesh will be frostbitten in ten minutes with our little bit of wind making wind chills -50 dF and colder.
> 
> I don't want coals in my stove right now.  I want baseball sized globs of sap giving off black smoke to feed the cat, and I will do have what I have to do to keep the stove full and the combustor high active.
> 
> If I had access to good hardwood with lengthy coaling stage I would use it in the shoulder seasons.
> 
> God bless y'all Canadian users here for setting me on the straight and narrow path.


Just for you sir:




I threw one token piece of spruce on top


----------



## BKVP

MissMac said:


> Just for you sir:
> 
> View attachment 289031
> 
> 
> I threw one token piece of spruce on top


Well done!  Show them guys how to load!  Now if you can get them same density with fewer pieces (meaning more large pieces) you might just get some longer burn times.  But what you've got here is an excellent example of a full load!


----------



## jdonna

> Well done!  Show them guys how to load!  Now if you can get them same density with fewer pieces (meaning more large pieces) you might just get some longer burn times.  But what you've got here is an excellent example of a full load!


I’m sensing someone measuring their firebox and getting ready to noodle ha.


----------



## MissMac

BKVP said:


> Well done!  Show them guys how to load!  Now if you can get them same density with fewer pieces (meaning more large pieces) you might just get some longer burn times.  But what you've got here is an excellent example of a full load!


When I was processing my ash this past March, I split some larger pieces out of the bigger rounds.  Looking forward to getting into them - will be 23-24 and 24-25!  Now that I have got a firm grip on being 3-4 years ahead with my processing, I plan on splitting my rounds larger, and might even just rip a few cuts lengthwise down the whole length of the birch trees (which are small in diameter to begin with) and leave them as rounds.


----------



## stoveliker

Same for me. I've been hesitant going larger because it needs to dry. But I'm 3-4 year out now. So now I can.

I wonder though; with the thermostat managing the air based on *heat output*, a larger split should not burn slower than the same weight in smaller splits (past the initial charring/outgassing stage where surface area matters); the far majority of the burn cycle is a controlled chewing thru charred (baked... @Poindexter  ;-) ) wood. At that point the shape or form of the wood shouldn't matter. 

And the idea that one can get more wood in may not be true as tiling of the same shapes scales, creating the same amount of empty volume in the box for different sizes (of the same shape)...?


----------



## clancey

I can see why all you"crazies" (I would not have that much trust to build a load like that and would be afraid even with three big pieces...I can also see why you need to dry your wood out for 10,000 years--lol--just having fun here and just wait until I get my three "biggies" into my wood stove..Weather says cold and snow --keep warm and especially your  wonderful wives  for they like to be warm.. Yes...old mrs clancey


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> Same for me. I've been hesitant going larger because it needs to dry. But I'm 3-4 year out now. So now I can.
> 
> I wonder though; with the thermostat managing the air based on *heat output*, a larger split should not burn slower than the same weight in smaller splits (past the initial charring/outgassing stage where surface area matters); the far majority of the burn cycle is a controlled chewing thru charred (baked... @Poindexter  ;-) ) wood. At that point the shape or form of the wood shouldn't matter.
> 
> And the idea that one can get more wood in may not be true as tiling of the same shapes scales, creating the same amount of empty volume in the box for different sizes (of the same shape)...?


I have weighed the loads many, many times.  More lbs in ='s more Btu's in.  When I use large pieces, I definitely get more weight into the stove.  I also like to use these mass piece, max load densities for the shoulder season, where I can let them simmer.  With FBV maxed with smaller pieces, there is much more surface area available for combustion.  The fire lights off very fast when I load in this fashion.  If I choose the load I showed earlier, and reduce thermostat setting to a lower burn rate, that can produce lower Btu's for 30+ hours.

Keep the Tetris loading going and let's see how other load their Blaze King's!


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> I have weighed the loads many, many times.  More lbs in ='s more Btu's in.  When I use large pieces, I definitely get more weight into the stove.  I also like to use these mass piece, max load densities for the shoulder season, where I can let them simmer.  With FBV maxed with smaller pieces, there is much more surface area available for combustion.  The fire lights off very fast when I load in this fashion.  If I choose the load I showed earlier, and reduce thermostat setting to a lower burn rate, that can produce lower Btu's for 30+ hours.
> 
> Keep the Tetris loading going and let's see how other load their Blaze King's!


ok, more weight in makes sense. (Apparently the stove volume is too small to reach max density tiling of split shapes.)

But the "more surface area available for combustion" argument appears to ignore that the thermostat would, upon "more combustion" squeeze the air to create less combustion (after the initial quick offgassing burn is done).  The thermostat is ignorant of the size of the wood.


----------



## Poindexter

stoveliker said:


> ok, more weight in makes sense. (Apparently the stove volume is too small to reach max density tiling of split shapes.)
> 
> But the "more surface area available for combustion" argument appears to ignore that the thermostat would, upon "more combustion" squeeze the air to create less combustion (after the initial quick offgassing burn is done).  The thermostat is ignorant of the size of the wood.


 Now you are thinking.  Next form a hypothesis...


----------



## Jeff in Maine

I had to contribute my one and only load photo. My only regret is I wish my firebox was 10 or 15 cu now that would be nice.


----------



## BKVP

Jeff in Maine said:


> I had to contribute my one and only load photo. My only regret is I wish my firebox was 10 or 15 cu now that would be nice.
> 
> View attachment 289045


Looks great, mixed species too!


----------



## Jeff in Maine

I have a vary , varied woodlot enough fallen over fir alone to heat 6 houses for 7 years ha ha.


----------



## kenmal

I have been having a couple of things that have been on going for some time. 
The first it After reloading the stove and charing the wood I get a smoke smell after It gets turned down to a cruise setting, The smell will last for about 4 hours or so. If I turn the stove up and get it to a point of flames no smell comes out. Turn it down and start getting the smoke smell again.

The second is the door gasket. the top right corner out six inches or so will never pass dollar bill test after the gasket is replaced, I have been putting a window gasket in as shims if you want to call it that and this will work. But I tend to have to adjust the door in as the season goes on. I can fluf the gasket for a bit before having to adjust it. But by the end of the season the gasket is pretty much crushed and need to replace it again the next season. 

I did have someone out last year and had them put in a new door gasket and see about the smoke smell. He inspected the stove and chimney and did not see anything that would be leaking causing the smoke smell. He thought it possibly could be coming out the cat hole when running on low. When he replaced the gasket he had to just the stove pretty tight to get the top right to pass the dollar bill test he commented it should not be that tight. I told him I have been putting a glass gasket in as a "shim" , so he did do that. I called him out 4 time last season to have him adjust the door and towrds the end of the season he said yip you will probably have to replace the gasket again. 
The door does not looked warped or anything, and bad thing was I ended up having to get a new door because of my own stupidity. But the new door is the same Top Right corner about six inches down and over need to "shim it" Looking for suggestions what to look for.


----------



## stoveliker

Is your door straight but not your stove?
Put a straight edge along both parts and see?


----------



## Diabel

MissMac said:


> Just for you sir:
> 
> View attachment 289031
> 
> 
> I threw one token piece of spruce on top


Amazing!


----------



## MissMac

Diabel said:


> Amazing!


all white birch, courtesy of this dang Canadian 

except for that one piece of spruce


----------



## stoveliker

All red oak. And to be compliant with current fads, one (1" dia) stick of fir on top. That was the top of last year's Christmas tree - why wast e perfectly good kindling...


----------



## BKVP

Ya'll need bigger trees!  Nice full load Stoveliker.


----------



## BKVP

Ok, sympathy load for those with small diameter trees.


----------



## Silenced38

Diabel said:


> Where is the thermometer needle pointing when stove is cold? These thermometers are not very accurate and or it maybe mis calibrated.


It is usually pointing at about the 8 o'clock position. 


Diabel said:


> Where is the thermometer needle pointing when stove is cold? These thermometers are not very accurate and or it maybe mis calibrated.


----------



## Poindexter

Wild caught  Alaska spruce, with bouquet garni of quarter sawn Doug Fir and flat sawn American Beech.


----------



## Jeff in Maine

Question, has anyone else with a fan kit has issues with the fan switch? I have the Princess with the fan kit and the dial/switch portion of the kit started giving up last winter. At first the fan would start to change speed on its own ,(lets say 10 means hi and 1 means low) it would go from 10 to 5 to 2 to 10 to 7 and so on over the course of the day. We have an old house that is not configured very well that is why we need the fan to assist in moving the hot air. 
 Now this winter it is much, much worse over the last week I have to play a "balancing act" by setting the knob right on the detent where the knob clicks from off to on, once I can get the knob to sit directly on that detent the fan will run on 10 only as long as you don't touch it, it will stay there and run. I will get by this winter then I will have to see is someone somewhere can match up a new switch for me. If anyone knows a replacement switch please post up the source and i will order one we need the fan and it would be nice if I did no have to run it on 10 all the time. Thanks for any information, Jeff


----------



## charger4406

I cleaned out the king to get a good load in it.
Filled it with 5 year old Hickory, I didn't weigh
it but it sure was heavy, 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
can't see the
bottom row in the photo but two of the block
are shorter to have room for some kindling.
the 2 small splits on top are sugar maple.
have much bigger splits but couldn't get it 
as tightly packed.


----------



## Diabel

charger4406 said:


> I cleaned out the king to get a good load in it.
> Filled it with 5 year old Hickory, I didn't weigh
> it but it sure was heavy,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 289140
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can't see the
> bottom row in the photo but two of the block
> are shorter to have room for some kindling.
> the 2 small splits on top are sugar maple.
> have much bigger splits but couldn't get it
> as tightly packed.


Wow! Canadian challenger…..this is becoming international!


----------



## stoveliker

charger4406 said:


> View attachment 289140


The beauty of square splits --> higher packing density


----------



## jdonna

kenmal said:


> When he replaced the gasket he had to just the stove pretty tight to get the top right to pass the dollar bill test he commented it should not be that tight. I told him I have been putting a glass gasket in as a "shim" , so he did do that.


Anyone for comment on this?  @BKVP? any harm on shimming between the window retainer studs?

I’m contemplating  also shimming between the studs with some metal shim stock and then bedding it in with RTV when I change out the door gasket.


----------



## Silenced38

Diabel said:


> Where is the thermometer needle pointing when stove is cold? These thermometers are not very accurate and or it maybe mis calibrated.


It's usually around the 8 o'clock position.


----------



## BKVP

jdonna said:


> Anyone for comment on this?  @BKVP? any harm on shimming between the window retainer studs?
> 
> I’m contemplating  also shimming between the studs with some metal shim stock and then bedding it in with RTV when I change out the door gasket.


It should not be necessary.


----------



## shgRUSS

So I had an unpleasant surprise with my Princess/chimney. Went to visit family for 4 days, before I left I loaded the stove and gave it a good char / bake before letting ride the hole till it runs out of fuel.  We had got 6” of snow the next day and the chimney was just right for the snow to stick and seal the cap. Got home and proceeded to do the usual cold start routine and  the stove is spilling smoke bad( never had a whiff spill before).  Took me a bit to figure out what was going on.  Thanks to a tip on here I put an old hair dryer in the stove on low fan high heat for an hour. Tried the match trick to check for draft and looked good. Fired it up and now back online.


----------



## kenmal

stoveliker said:


> Is your door straight but not your stove?
> Put a straight edge along both parts and see?


I created a Video, it was to big to attach it.


----------



## stoveliker

kenmal said:


> I created a Video, it was to big to attach it.



Hard to see, but the movements you make suggest that at least the top and hinge sides are not straight. If so, I'd not be surprised that it leaks...


----------



## BKVP

Thanks for the video.  Those appear to be within tolerance.  I'd like you to check out one other item for me.  Where does the gasket hit on the door flange (we call them knife-edged seal).  Recently another member here identified the door was striking too low, place 1/8" washer in the hinge pins and raised the door.  Initial update he provided was it eliminated the smell issue.

Can you check your and get back to me please.


----------



## jdonna

kenmal said:


> I created a Video, it was to big to attach it.


Hard to say how much variance is allowable on the knife edge and what the factory tolerances are when they leave the door.   Either it warped or was that way from day 1.

Edit saw BKVP just answered.  It’s the fuss in me from an engine building background and surfacing.


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> Thanks for the video.  Those appear to be within tolerance.  I'd like you to check out one other item for me.  Where does the gasket hit on the door flange (we call them knife-edged seal).  Recently another member here identified the door was striking to low, place 1/8" washer in the hinge pins and raised the door.  Initial update he provided was it eliminated the smell issue.
> 
> Can you check your and get back to me please.



I'm a bit apprehensive asking this, but the play in the straight edge appeared to be on the same order as the thickness of the gasket... How can that be within tolerance?


----------



## BKVP

It appeared to be


stoveliker said:


> I'm a bit apprehensive asking this, but the play in the straight edge appeared to be on the same order as the thickness of the gasket... How can that be within tolerance?


The video quality isn't great.  These are two welded parts that are held in place by spring loaded jigs.  We have to use the spring loaded design so that the face of the stove is not distorted by the hot weld.

If you have show the full variance on just one side, it looks to more of an issue than it is.  Because the gasket may compress some in the middle to absorb and even out the gap on each side.  Not worded the best, but it works out.

More than likely, for this to be an issue on a Princess or Sirocco, it is likely and vertical alignment issue.


----------



## stoveliker

Ok. You're the professional here (and you have skin in the game).
I know the gasket is meant to seal over an imperfect junction (I used soft copper gaskets to seal UHV flanges) - but when the slack is of similar magnitude as the thickness of the gasket, things don't seal anymore.

But, you've looked at this far more than I have.

Let's hope the problem on this stove can be resolved.


----------



## crstrode

kennyp2339 said:


> I'd return that and shop somewhere else, you paid almost double the cost, go by measurements and not advertisement, check out midwest hearth for your cats, after your first one is kicked, turn that one into your dealer if it meets the warrantee period (most do btw)


You must be a better shopper than I am.  Let me know where you find these at half price.


----------



## kennyp2339

crstrode said:


> You must be a better shopper than I am.  Let me know where you find these at half price.


I did, and posted the link to.


----------



## crstrode

kennyp2339 said:


> I did, and posted the link to.


Nope.  You did not.  The link is to a supplier that cannot supply an appropriate cat.

They do not offer a cat that fits the Sirocco insert.  I contacted them directly but no dice.


----------



## kennyp2339

crstrode said:


> Nope.  You did not.  The link is to a supplier that cannot supply an appropriate cat.
> 
> They do not offer a cat that fits the Sirocco insert.  I contacted them directly but no dice.


I see now that your refering to a insert and not a free standing stove, s.cat2425 - dimensions 13x2.8x2" totally different then the free standing larger ashford, sirocco & princess


----------



## kenmal

BKVP said:


> Thanks for the video.  Those appear to be within tolerance.  I'd like you to check out one other item for me.  Where does the gasket hit on the door flange (we call them knife-edged seal).  Recently another member here identified the door was striking too low, place 1/8" washer in the hinge pins and raised the door.  Initial update he provided was it eliminated the smell issue.
> 
> Can you check your and get back to me please.


I don't have the fastest upload so I had to get the video down in size. The original video was 750MB , that would have taken days for me to upload that. 
Here is a picture of the door. Top, Bottom and hinge side are pretty close to center. Handle side it is all the way to the outside edge.
I did put a washer under the hinges last year  midway thru the season but did not seem to make a difference.


----------



## BKVP

kenmal said:


> I don't have the fastest upload so I had to get the video down in size. The original video was 750MB , that would have taken days for me to upload that.
> Here is a picture of the door. Top, Bottom and hinge side are pretty close to center. Handle side it is all the way to the outside edge.
> I did put a washer under the hinges last year  midway thru the season but did not seem to make a difference.
> 
> View attachment 289203


Please give me a call. 509-522-2730.  I'll be in no later 6:00 a.m. PST.  I have multiple meetings,  so if I'm not available,  leave me a message and number to call back.


----------



## shgRUSS

Blast from past. Visited the in-laws, this is their Blaze King bought in 1984.  Ran for 8 months a year since new, was just professionally inspected and cleaned, guy offered to buy it on the spot. Has a screen to make it a fireplace with the door open.


----------



## moresnow

The definition of  getting yours moneys worth Nice! Lots of those floating around on CL and FBMP. Not many looking that nice.


----------



## jdonna

-15 this am and waiting for coals to burn down, the thermostat knob was getting loose.  Thermostat has been getting hard to turn so I lubed the 2 points  and tightened the knob.  Good to go. 

The buttery was a bit sticky, I know some would say don’t add any lube on it but it sure made a difference in its movement.  Next burn will tell.


----------



## lsucet

For the last 3 winters, when it gets cold, this is about 60 to 70% of my loads.


----------



## MissMac

lsucet said:


> For the last 3 winters, when it gets cold, this is about 60 to 70% of my loads.
> 
> View attachment 289259
> View attachment 289260
> View attachment 289261


Awesome splits!  This is what I'm aiming to make out of the wood I put up this summer.  That looks great


----------



## stoveliker

Oak, including biggest oak split yet 8" by 5" by "just too long to fit down in the belly"(by 1/10"..). And a piece of ash mid top, and pine right and left.too.


----------



## kennyp2339

Woke up this morning to 9 deg f, now its 20 deg f, I can say happily that the princess is predicably dialed in, burning oak at night and maple during the day, I like how the maple essentially disintegrates and when its time to reload in the evening I have a lot less coals so I can fit more oak splits in.
I started splitting bigger about 2 years ago, so I have mixed medium and large pieces now, I'm thinking about building a separate 2 cord woodshed that hold extra large splits, think of 14" diameter ash tree logs 16" long that are just cut in half and stacked to dry, I have the space, I certainly have the tree's to cut, I might as well try it, if it doesn't work, I just need to re-split those pieces smaller.
I also ran the 1 damper last night 1/2 shut, I maintained a great glowing coal base with small secondary flames, 2 o'clock cat probe needle and the blower on 3/4 high, house stayed at 71 the whole night, the only issue was that I lost the house cat, normally he sleeps at the foot of my bed, last night he stayed on the 3rd step of the basements stairs soaking up the heat coming off the stove.


----------



## shgRUSS

Coldest day this winter so far


----------



## Diabel

Wow. Keep that weather there please.😀


----------



## spudman99

So I have a question for the masses:

My princess insert is now on its 3rd season. I have done nothing to it other than to lube the thermostat and blow clean the fan.  It has not required any maintenance.  My door closes normally but there is very little resistance on the handle when I lock it down on the latch.  Like I can close it with 2 fingers and a push.  I don't have any smoke odor, however that may be due to my high draft.  I installed a key damper in Nov, now my Magnehellic reads 0.18 on high burn instead of 0.21wc.  No way possible to get it into the desired spec (at least not this year).

Is this type of tension on the door handle and latch typical?  After 3 years shouldn't I have to tighten the latch nut a bit?  

Not looking for an answer to a non-problem, just leaning on your experience.  TIA


----------



## rdust

spudman99 said:


> So I have a question for the masses:
> 
> My princess insert is now on its 3rd season. I have done nothing to it other than to lube the thermostat and blow clean the fan.  It has not required any maintenance.  My door closes normally but there is very little resistance on the handle when I lock it down on the latch.  Like I can close it with 2 fingers and a push.  I don't have any smoke odor, however that may be due to my high draft.  I installed a key damper in Nov, now my Magnehellic reads 0.18 on high burn instead of 0.21wc.  No way possible to get it into the desired spec (at least not this year).
> 
> Is this type of tension on the door handle and latch typical?  After 3 years shouldn't I have to tighten the latch nut a bit?
> 
> Not looking for an answer to a non-problem, just leaning on your experience.  TIA


Check it with a dollar bill and go from there.  If it passes you’re good, if it pulls out easy snug it up until it has some resistance.


----------



## Highbeam

spudman99 said:


> So I have a question for the masses:
> 
> My princess insert is now on its 3rd season. I have done nothing to it other than to lube the thermostat and blow clean the fan.  It has not required any maintenance.  My door closes normally but there is very little resistance on the handle when I lock it down on the latch.  Like I can close it with 2 fingers and a push.  I don't have any smoke odor, however that may be due to my high draft.  I installed a key damper in Nov, now my Magnehellic reads 0.18 on high burn instead of 0.21wc.  No way possible to get it into the desired spec (at least not this year).
> 
> Is this type of tension on the door handle and latch typical?  After 3 years shouldn't I have to tighten the latch nut a bit?
> 
> Not looking for an answer to a non-problem, just leaning on your experience.  TIA



You don’t want it super duper tight to latch. Mine is about two fingers plus a thumb on the pivot to shut. Too tight and you crush the mooshiness out of the gasket material. 

Fully closed damper only drops you three hundredths? Wow. Must be quite the chimney.


----------



## rdust

Single digit night.


----------



## kennyp2339

Little warm shot here yesterday, got up to 35deg f, burnt the firebox down all day, then took my hand rake and moved the coals to one side, scooped ash out, moved coals to the other side, scooped some more, got about 1.5 gal worth of ash removed, spread the coals out and loaded on top of them in time for the arctic cold front, temps are crashing, 24 deg f today, 0 tonight and 5 tomorrow, having a deep belly stove alone is like an insurance policy,


----------



## jdonna

shgRUSS said:


> Coldest day this winter so far





shgRUSS said:


> Coldest day this winter so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 289414


That takes the cake!  I wouldn't rely on my propane at that temp! Thank goodness for wood heat.


----------



## kennyp2339

The other happy customer in this house


----------



## sprawlnstall

jdonna said:


> That takes the cake!  I wouldn't rely on my propane at that temp! Thank goodness for wood heat.


I had -32 below yesterday in Northern MN.  A few days last week it was even colder.  I've been sleeping in the stove room for overnight reloads, Lots of hot cleanouts before work so the stove can be packed to the Gils.  I can get 8 hours of heat but will come home to a 60 degree house.  I don't think a bigger stove would help.


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> I had -32 below yesterday in Northern MN.  A few days last week it was even colder.  I've been sleeping in the stove room for overnight reloads, Lots of hot cleanouts before work so the stove can be packed to the Gils.  I can get 8 hours of heat but will come home to a 60 degree house.  I don't think a bigger stove would help.


A bigger fuel box would give you longer burn times (at the same heat output).


----------



## kennyp2339

sprawlnstall said:


> I had -32 below yesterday in Northern MN.  A few days last week it was even colder.  I've been sleeping in the stove room for overnight reloads, Lots of hot cleanouts before work so the stove can be packed to the Gils.  I can get 8 hours of heat but will come home to a 60 degree house.  I don't think a bigger stove would help.


A king has more surface area to radiate more heat, it would certainly do a better job. 
I noticed a big improvement with my princess when I added the convection deck with the blower, but we simply dont get temps like you guys up there, I can only imagine what thats like living day to day in that stuff. Lowest I think I ever saw at my place was -8 deg F.


----------



## Todd

sprawlnstall said:


> I had -32 below yesterday in Northern MN.  A few days last week it was even colder.  I've been sleeping in the stove room for overnight reloads, Lots of hot cleanouts before work so the stove can be packed to the Gils.  I can get 8 hours of heat but will come home to a 60 degree house.  I don't think a bigger stove would help.


Yeah, I’ve been seeing the same temps and it can be frustrating with any stove figuring a good burning schedule to fight these temps. Luckily I’m retired and can reload every 4-6 hours to keep my stove hot and my place above 70.


----------



## Tron

Even with our rather mild (30s-50s) temperatures right now I usually need to reload after 6-8 hours. It's just pine after all, plus a few splits are of questionable quality, they weigh close to nothing and feel like balsa wood. I admit that I had some dead standing trees in my stash that the insects got into before I cut it down...


----------



## Dieselhead

Here’s all I could muster for the Tetris challenge. I don’t have many smalls in the current load in my wood rack to draw from so a void or 2 was inevitable. 

The coals left were from a load 27hrs earlier.


----------



## stoveliker

Oak Tetris. No small pieces nearby for on the top.


----------



## JKanor

Guess I'll play Tetris, not my best work but it's what I had in the house. Mostly white oak with a piece or 2 of red. 

9* right now in Northeast PA and keeping my tri-level 73 downstairs and 70 up on 18-20 hour burns at this rate.


----------



## jdonna

sprawlnstall said:


> I had -32 below yesterday in Northern MN.  A few days last week it was even colder.  I've been sleeping in the stove room for overnight reloads, Lots of hot cleanouts before work so the stove can be packed to the Gils.  I can get 8 hours of heat but will come home to a 60 degree house.  I don't think a bigger stove would help.


Yea our state, MN , has seen some pretty brutal temps this winter, but man that pic of -50f takes the cake !


----------



## shgRUSS

jdonna said:


> Yea our state, MN , has seen some pretty brutal temps this winter, but man that pic of -50f takes the cake !


Gets colder here but usually when  we get really cold it is relatively calm and sunny (super strong high pressure).  The worst I seen was about 15yrs ago we had -50*f  with crazy wind for a full week. My diesel service truck gelled up twice, went to the gas station to tell them their diesel was questionable and the pump had gelled off also.  The house takes much more to heat when it is -30*f cloudy and windy (can get weeks in a row of this).


----------



## sprawlnstall

stoveliker said:


> A bigger fuel box would give you longer burn times (at the same heat output).


I've considered this.  Not a lot of stoves are bigger that run on a 6 inch flue.  The drolet and Ht300 and Englander NC30 may be good options but not sure if it would be better than a princess.


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> I've considered this.  Not a lot of stoves are bigger that run on a 6 inch flue.  The drolet and Ht300 and Englander NC30 may be good options but not sure if it would be better than a princess.



I can't say. But the ease of use and stability of the BK would make me hesitant to change if you don't want to pay for an 8" flue (King).

But I know the solution: get a second BK. Same burn times, and you'll be higher than 60 F inside...


----------



## Highbeam

sprawlnstall said:


> I've considered this.  Not a lot of stoves are bigger that run on a 6 inch flue.  The drolet and Ht300 and Englander NC30 may be good options but not sure if it would be better than a princess.



Ugh. I believe BKVP told us that princess is his top seller in Alaska! I've got to think that the 6" flue is a big reason. 

I have the NC30 and burn both it and the princess. The NC30 is a fine stove but it's a noncat and that larger firebox is quickly eaten up. More heat over less time which sometimes is fine if you are trying to make major btu short term which is what I bought it for. 

The princess is great, better I think, for keeping a house warm if the heat load is more typical and falls within it's output range.


----------



## Nealm66

Finally cleaned out the stove. Was an inch of concrete like ash buildup that was so hard I thought it was the brick the last time I cleaned it lol. Not bad really considering I think it’s only the 3rd time I’ve cleaned it out since new last season.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> Finally cleaned out the stove. Was an inch of concrete like ash buildup that was so hard I thought it was the brick the last time I cleaned it lol. Not bad really considering I think it’s only the 3rd time I’ve cleaned it out since new last season.
> 
> View attachment 289787


Nice red fir. The fir seems pretty good at making those clinkers or slabs of weak cement like stuff in the ash. But so little ash.


----------



## Nealm66

Ya, it was weird. I’m new to BK but been burning pretty much all my life. Never seen that before. Brick protector lol


----------



## charger4406

I get some really hard clinkers when burning sugar maple
that still have the bark on, these are all over a century
old trees with thick bark, I don't get any clinkers with the smoother 
bark/debarked trees.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> Ya, it was weird. I’m new to BK but been burning pretty much all my life. Never seen that before. Brick protector lol


Be careful with those clinkers. They can fuse onto the soft foam bk bricks and when you try to clean the clinkers out you end up taking chunks of brick. I’ve lost quite a bit of brick thickness this way.


----------



## charger4406

Highbeam said:


> They can fuse onto the soft foam bk bricks and when you try to clean the clinkers out you end up taking chunks of brick. I’ve lost quite a bit of brick thickness this way.


Same here, I've had to change a few bricks in the Ashford 'cause clinkers 
stuck/fused to the bricks


----------



## kennyp2339

3deg f this morning, princess chugging along keeping the house at 68 (upstairs portion away from stove) my question here it, Obviously since it really cold out I'm pushing my stove, which means I'm also loading to the max north & south, does anyone worry about loading and then having flames from the top portion of the fire lick the flame shield? I know that at 1500deg f the cat will start to become compromised, I have a stuffed fire box and def secondary flames which means I'm above 1100 deg f in there, with splits so close to the shield I have to be hitting the cat with super-heated gas along the way.  Maybe I can better answer my own question if I have a probe thermometer.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes, I've wondered about that too. I often see the shield glowing when running high and full, and sometimes have flames behind the shield (slow secondary ones trolling in front of the cat). @BKVP  said not to worry.

I guess the point is that even if the front 1/10" of the cat channels gets too hot, the bulk doesn't see those flames. Moreover, if you have secondaries in the firebox, there may be less fuel left for the cat to chew thru. So it's producing less heat by itself.


----------



## stoveliker

It's cold here... Outside, not inside.


----------



## rdust

kennyp2339 said:


> 3deg f this morning, princess chugging along keeping the house at 68 (upstairs portion away from stove) my question here it, Obviously since it really cold out I'm pushing my stove, which means I'm also loading to the max north & south, does anyone worry about loading and then having flames from the top portion of the fire lick the flame shield? I know that at 1500deg f the cat will start to become compromised, I have a stuffed fire box and def secondary flames which means I'm above 1100 deg f in there, with splits so close to the shield I have to be hitting the cat with super-heated gas along the way.  Maybe I can better answer my own question if I have a probe thermometer.



Nope, never worry.  Burn how I need and replace they cat as needed which is usually every three seasons.   My cats have never crumbled or showed flame damage so I think your ok.


----------



## charger4406

kennyp2339 said:


> does anyone worry about loading and then having flames from the top portion of the fire lick the flame shield


-30f here this morning, had lots of flames hitting the shield on the King most of the night,
shield glowing red the whole time, also did this to the Ashford for years, never hurt the 
cat or shortened its life, who knows it may have prolonged it, only used two cats in 8 years.


----------



## Highbeam

rdust said:


> Nope, never worry.  Burn how I need and replace they cat as needed which is usually every three seasons.   My cats have never crumbled or showed flame damage so I think your ok.


Same. The owner’s manual doesn’t say to prevent fire from occurring in the firebox. Quite the opposite, it directs you to let the load rip for an extended period of time. It appears that the flame shield was designed to protect the cat from flame damage which is not say that it prevents some flames from touching the cat.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> The owner’s manual doesn’t say to prevent fire from occurring in the firebox. Quite the opposite,


----------



## charger4406

In this cold I tried heating this place with the King alone without the F600,
it managed for awhile but after 6 hrs the furnace kicked in so I fired up the
F600 again, pushed a load of hickory through the King in 12 hrs.
Ordered the fan kit for it, will be here during the week, should help.


----------



## kennyp2339

Nor'easter tonight and tomorrow, reloaded my inside stack with oak, ash & maple. Stove is dialed in, the storm sounds like its changing or challenging forecasters, my area specifically is going to be a mixed bag of crap, 50 mph gusts, 6" of heavy wet snow then transition to sleet and plain rain then back to snow.. other forecasters are now saying to be prepared for a colder solution.. who knows, but I'm happy to be ready, double damper for the winds and the first ot event for work of 2022.


----------



## JKanor

Well 0* last night and several days of single digits here in PA, it's safe to say my glass is plenty clean lol.


----------



## Alex36472

Hi guys, i've had a blazeking sirocco for almost 3 years now , sorry for the ultra long story , this really stresses me out because I really don't understans what's happening..


The first year i got my firestove i was burning 24/7 and i was sweeping every month well because my wood wasn't really ready to burn so it wasnt really good for the stove i know.. Everything went fire never got any problems.
Last year and this year I've had the same problem , i burn from time to time and when it's really cold like the last 2 weeks I burn 24/7. So last year after 2 weeks straight of burning i come home at 5 AM i notice my stove is still hot, but completly inactive, perfect crank it to high open the door I see blaze and everything.  I put newspaper and some dry wood everything is ok. I notice the needle goes pretty quickly up and I hear some scratching in my firestove pipe (that can't be good) ok im gonna close the bypass and firealarm will go off for sure and yep. In less than 10 mins my firestove went from.fully inactive to active(12 on clock).. I touch the pipes its super hot(its as if it's been burning for 30 mins on high..) i know something is up because the firealarm went off 3 times even though i cant see anything so i lowered it to the minimum and it continued going up and basically consumed everything within 2 hours even though i turned it all the way down.. This year same thing after 2 weeks of 24/7 burning dry wood , i loaded the firestove the day before near midnight when i woke up at 10 am I opened the door to my firestove to see the base of the pipe to see if theres any creosote build up it seemed fine. I went to take a look at my chimney ok some stage creosote little spots not bigger than a dime cool its fine. 11 am touch my firestove still a little hot(completly inactive) high, see some blaze put some wood poof, alright . 10 minutes later i smell some burning im like not again.. And yep firealarm went off , put to minimum again, take off the wood in the firestove( never in 3 years was the firestove that hot) even though i emptied it , needle was still going up and after 1 and a half hour the stove was super hot. I swept the firestove pipe ok ya medium creosote build up, but how? I do exactly what they say always put on high for 30 minutes, after a few hours of burning i put on high again.. I was sure that the pipes from the firestove would mainly burn all that creosote since its always so hot there..
This year I noticed there was a wind noise coming at the base of the pipe connecting to the firestove. At first I was like this can't be the draft.. It was super high like when you hear wind outside blowing at 45 miles per hour..

If you guys could help me shed some light on this I would really appreciate it!
The problem occured twice when the firestove was completly inactive, im 99% sure if it was still active and i wanted to reload it that it wouldn't do that..

Well thanks guys! Sorry again for the long text haha


----------



## kennyp2339

Whats your definition of dry wood? What type of chimney setup do you have? The stove pipe coming off the woodstoves flue collar to the chimney, is it double wall or single wall. 
To me it seems like your having an issue with flue gasses condensing because they are to cool and thats whats forming the creosote, this could be from multiple factors, wood that is to high in moisture, long single wall pipe run, excessive draft.


----------



## jalmondale

I can't speak to a blaze king, but I generally don't leave the air wide open on my catalytic stove for more than 10 minutes after a reload, and probably only 5 after a hot reload - I keep an eye on the flue temps, and once everything's solidly in the range for the cat, I dial it down and close the bypass. If yours is getting too hot too quickly, closing the air sooner might be an option.


----------



## stoveliker

So, I had a "stink event" here to this afternoon. I was sitting in the basement, stove in black box mode (Tstat about  horizontal, i.e. more or less midway in the swoosh), flue temp around 450 F (don't know the cat gauge, but it was glowing - could see the light on the haze on the window). 2.5 hrs into a burn (of a "baby load" because the 16 hr load of last night was done, and I don't want to have to reload in the middle of the night, so I try to add as much as I need to get to a good time for an evening reload).

Suddenly a nice blue/orange secondary explosion lasting about 5 secs. Just one.
I heard a "tang" behind the stove when it happened. And after a minute I smelled some "smoke". I wonder if the sound is due to the flapper being pushed open from the shockwave.

I wonder how often smells happen because of this happening every now and then - and you need to be there to see it happen. If you don't see it, enter the room later, and smell something, then all the horror stories are remembered. One might start and smell the gasket with a cone and feel confirmed it's the door because one can smell something. But it may simply be back puffing that happened when it wasn't observed. The smell can linger a long time, especially if only convection spreading of heat is happening in the home. (My fan was off because I was on a zoom meeting.)

I've seen a lot of such beautiful light explosions, and heard the clang when it happened. First time I smelled something.


----------



## Alex36472

kennyp2339 said:


> Whats your definition of dry wood? What type of chimney setup do you have? The stove pipe coming off the woodstoves flue collar to the chimney, is it double wall or single wall.
> To me it seems like your having an issue with flue gasses condensing because they are to cool and thats whats forming the creosote, this could be from multiple factors, wood that is to high in moisture, long single wall pipe run, excessive draft.


Well my i splitted my wood last summer , i tried putting a tarpaulin on top of my wood since I dont have a shed yet(i know its not really ideal because sometimes it doesnt protect the wood from rain or snow..) my insidr setup if 3 feet of double pipe, then a 90 degre angle, a 45 degre one , then 1 feet of double pipe going through the fire connector? The square black metal piece thats on your wall, then maybe 18 inch thats going outside about 24 feet of chimney  with 2x 45 degre angles and a rain cap on top. 

Could a week of burning 24/7 really create that much creosote (lets say that its still wet wood for that scenario) that could potentially create a chimney fire? Because like I said my chimney looked really fine, but my pipes insides looked dirty.. Most of the chimney fires starts from outside or well i guess starts from inside but wouldve died out outside because there wouldnt be enough creosote to burn..
I tries to link a video that shows the draft but I cant.. So what would you do? Not burn 24/7 wait for the stove to be cold then start it from scratch? Like i said it happened twice when my stove was hot, but still inactive and i couldnt reload it in time when it was active. Im always scared this happens and whoever I call they can't give me an anwser, or simple won't care..


----------



## Diabel

Whenever I see the explosion in the VC within minutes Incan smell smoke. It does not linger for long (large space). I have seen/heard just a few of these from the Princess, never smell of smoke.


----------



## Alex36472

Alex36472 said:


> Well my i splitted my wood last summer , i tried putting a tarpaulin on top of my wood since I dont have a shed yet(i know its not really ideal because sometimes it doesnt protect the wood from rain or snow..) my insidr setup if 3 feet of double pipe, then a 90 degre angle, a 45 degre one , then 1 feet of double pipe going through the fire connector? The square black metal piece thats on your wall, then maybe 18 inch thats going outside about 24 feet of chimney  with 2x 45 degre angles and a rain cap on top.
> 
> Could a week of burning 24/7 really create that much creosote (lets say that its still wet wood for that scenario) that could potentially create a chimney fire? Because like I said my chimney looked really fine, but my pipes insides looked dirty.. Most of the chimney fires starts from outside or well i guess starts from inside but wouldve died out outside because there wouldnt be enough creosote to burn..
> I tries to link a video that shows the draft but I cant.. So what would you do? Not burn 24/7 wait for the stove to be cold then start it from scratch? Like i said it happened twice when my stove was hot, but still inactive and i couldnt reload it in time when it was active. Im always scared this happens and whoever I call they can't give me an anwser, or simple won't care..


Here is my setup https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xs4y7tv40vd2zv9/AAB4lmhyPW_4ebNjXR-8d_Q4a?dl=0 i have the video of the draft. It was some old photos because the company that installed it wasnt very professionnal, but now its "ok"


----------



## kennyp2339

I know that whistle sound very well! Welcome to the high draft club! Do a few loads of wood and then take down that horizontal piece of black pipe, check to see what the build up looks like if you havent cleaned it recently. Buy (2) pipe dampers, install the first on your piece that rises straight about 12" up from the collar, run it like that for a bit to see if things slow down, have the 2nd as a spare or incase you need an additional damper.


----------



## moresnow

stoveliker said:


> So, I had a "stink event" here to this afternoon. I was sitting in the basement, stove in black box mode (Tstat about  horizontal, i.e. more or less midway in the swoosh), flue temp around 450 F (don't know the cat gauge, but it was glowing - could see the light on the haze on the window). 2.5 hrs into a burn (of a "baby load" because the 16 hr load of last night was done, and I don't want to have to reload in the middle of the night, so I try to add as much as I need to get to a good time for an evening reload).
> 
> Suddenly a nice blue/orange secondary explosion lasting about 5 secs. Just one.
> I heard a "tang" behind the stove when it happened. And after a minute I smelled some "smoke". I wonder if the sound is due to the flapper being pushed open from the shockwave.
> 
> I wonder how often smells happen because of this happening every now and then - and you need to be there to see it happen. If you don't see it, enter the room later, and smell something, then all the horror stories are remembered. One might start and smell the gasket with a cone and feel confirmed it's the door because one can smell something. But it may simply be back puffing that happened when it wasn't observed. The smell can linger a long time, especially if only convection spreading of heat is happening in the home. (My fan was off because I was on a zoom meeting.)
> 
> I've seen a lot of such beautiful light explosions, and heard the clang when it happened. First time I smelled something.


I can create this situation by closing therm to far, to soon on a fresh load. Heavy off gassing is still happening, and it decides it's time to get with the program. Bingo. Explosive ignition and smell. Really a very rare event anymore! This may or may not be the case in your situation. Just saying.


----------



## stoveliker

moresnow said:


> I can create this situation by closing therm to far, to soon on a fresh load. Heavy off gassing is still happening, and it decides it's time to get with the program. Bingo. Explosive ignition and smell. Really a very rare event anymore! This may or may not be the case in your situation. Just saying.



Yes, I can too.
 This case was after the box had been black for at least an hour and a half. (Hence my surprise - maybe a windgust in combination with a slight Tstat movement due to slow temp changes made the circumstances just right. Or wrong, depending on your view.)


----------



## BradyBunch

Hello! Newbie here, trying to decide which wood stove to purchase for our new build currently in progress. BK Chinook 30 is one of our top two choices, next to the PE Neo 2.5. The BK Chinook would qualify for the tax credit, but I can't find anywhere on their site or in this forum about whether or not the top gets hot enough to cook on? This is a deal breaker for us if not, since we really want the option to cook on it in an emergency. Are there any Chinook owners who can verify this for me? I called the company last week and left a message but haven't heard back yet. Thanks!


----------



## begreen

I think the Chinook's top is a convection top and not the actual stove top. It is going to be cooler than most stovetops. Maybe the  Princess would be a better solution for cooking? The Neo 2.5 is a similar design. For cooking, the PE Alderlea series is much better.


----------



## BradyBunch

Awesome. I think you're right from everything I'm seeing. We love the Neo but will have to decide if it's worth missing out on the tax credit. Thanks so much!


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Diabel said:


> Whenever I see the explosion in the VC within minutes Incan smell smoke. It does not linger for long (large space). I have seen/heard just a few of these from the Princess, never smell of smoke.


Yeah, my old VC would lift the griddle up sometimes when it would back puff. I have actually observed the Princess back puff a couple time, hard enough to where it pushed a small puff out of the flue collar, but that was more operator error when I was learning to use the stove. I can regularly observe the "explosion" during lower burns, but it is normally very slow and lazy, and often corresponds to wind gusts.


----------



## Tron

BradyBunch said:


> The BK Chinook would qualify for the tax credit, but I can't find anywhere on their site or in this forum about whether or not the top gets hot enough to cook on?


It does not. As @begreen said, it's a convection top and has about 2" of clearance to the firebox roof. Through which the fans blow if installed. It's ideal for rising dough, though (raised up a little and with a plate in between).
For me it's not a deal breaker. If the need would arise, I have a little camping stove, or I'd fire up the grill on the patio.


----------



## Diabel

I would not cook on the Princess, the paint is too week. Unless you do not care about it.


----------



## stoveliker

Diabel said:


> I would not cook on the Princess, the paint is too week. Unless you do not care about it.


I think that in general is the case - whether it is with painted steel stoves, or with BKs in particular I don't know.  Cooking works much better for cast iron stove tops imo.

I have scratches on the top (Chinook) already. Even my door has scratches; you can open it so far that the flat front surface of the door touches the pillar/jamb at the hinge side (that sticks out an inch and a half beyond the surface of the closed door). Right where that touches, the paint is gone.

That happened upon first loading and I thought the paint was weak because it had not been hot yet (if so, a warning should be in the manual...). But a gentle wiping of the top with a wet cloth  also left scratches. I.e. one grain of sand in a soft wet cloth, no pressure applied, will result in scratching.

(This sounds like griping, but while disappointing, it's not that bad for me, because the stove is in the basement. However, when one has the stove in the living room, then an easily scratchable stove would be an issue to me.)


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> I have scratches on the top (Chinook) already. Even my door has scratches; you can open it so far that the flat front surface of the door touches the pillar/jamb at the hinge side (that sticks out an inch and a half beyond the surface of the closed door). Right where that touches, the paint is gone.


Interesting. I can open my door only to about 90 degrees (totally sufficient), after that it sort of "sticks" and the force required to open further increases significantly, which is why I just don't do it.


----------



## jdonna

stoveliker said:


> I think that in general is the case - whether it is with painted steel stoves, or with BKs in particular I don't know.  Cooking works much better for cast iron stove tops imo.
> 
> I have scratches on the top (Chinook) already. Even my door has scratches; you can open it so far that the flat front surface of the door touches the pillar/jamb at the hinge side (that sticks out an inch and a half beyond the surface of the closed door). Right where that touches, the paint is gone.
> 
> That happened upon first loading and I thought the paint was weak because it had not been hot yet (if so, a warning should be in the manual...). But a gentle wiping of the top with a wet cloth  also left scratches. I.e. one grain of sand in a soft wet cloth, no pressure applied, will result in scratching.
> 
> (This sounds like griping, but while disappointing, it's not that bad for me, because the stove is in the basement. However, when one has the stove in the living room, then an easily scratchable stove would be an issue to me.)


I’ve left a huge stock pot on the princess this season to add humidity, can do about 6 gallons a day.  It’s beat the top up a bit but I’d rather have the humidity than a pretty top.


----------



## stoveliker

Tron said:


> Interesting. I can open my door only to about 90 degrees (totally sufficient), after that it sort of "sticks" and the force required to open further increases significantly, which is why I just don't do it.


there's no limit on the hinge assembly as far as I can see. I'll take a pic next reload.


----------



## stoveliker

jdonna said:


> I’ve left a huge stock pot on the princess this season to add humidity, can do about 6 gallons a day.  It’s beat the top up a bit but I’d rather have the humidity than a pretty top.


yes. My point is that on a cast iron stove, no such things happen. Maybe it's inherent to painted steel stoves. 
Next BK iteration: cast iron cook are on top of the cat? I'd like that.


----------



## Alex36472

kennyp2339 said:


> I know that whistle sound very well! Welcome to the high draft club! Do a few loads of wood and then take down that horizontal piece of black pipe, check to see what the build up looks like if you havent cleaned it recently. Buy (2) pipe dampers, install the first on your piece that rises straight about 12" up from the collar, run it like that for a bit to see if things slow down, have the 2nd as a spare or incase you need an additional damper.


Ok thanks for the info, 


kennyp2339 said:


> I know that whistle sound very well! Welcome to the high draft club! Do a few loads of wood and then take down that horizontal piece of black pipe, check to see what the build up looks like if you havent cleaned it recently. Buy (2) pipe dampers, install the first on your piece that rises straight about 12" up from the collar, run it like that for a bit to see if things slow down, have the 2nd as a spare or incase you need an additional damper.


Ok thanks for the info! I cleaned up my chimney last june I think , i cleaned inside my firestove and the pipes. Then the company that installed my chimney went back to fix their louzy mistakes inside and outside the house. I did a couple of burns in december and been burning 24/7 since january 6 or something, until this monday when i had that incident. So i said what the heck, swept the outside chimney even though it was ok, swepted my firestove piped had a medium build up and i cleaned all the inside of my firestove. I did 2 burns today and I never heard one whistle, nothing like that video you saw, basically just the burning and metal clanging.. So it got me thinking they were the ones that removed the piped and put it back, 2 days ago it was me and there's no more whistle.. Why? The wind outside today was more than usual too. I'm so confused, i dont understand it haha..


----------



## stoveliker

stoveliker said:


> there's no limit on the hinge assembly as far as I can see. I'll take a pic next reload.



@Tron 

Two damage lines.where they touch.


----------



## jetsam

I've "ruined" the paint on my PI a couple times with tea boil-overs.

Wait for spring, hit it with a wire brush, hit it with a shot of Stove Brite black, open the windows and burn it, good as new.  (I think Stove Brite black might actually be the factory paint because it is absolutely the same as the rest of the stove.)


----------



## stoveliker

Not sure; mine seems more gray. But I'm leaving it as it is.


----------



## jdonna

stoveliker said:


> Not sure; mine seems more gray. But I'm leaving it as it is.


Agreed, I didn’t buy the princess for its looks!


----------



## Poindexter

@BradyBunch   On my Ashford 30.0 I could (never have) lift off the cast enameled top and use the (now exposed) steel firebox as  a cooktop.    My wife would be furious that I let the house run out of charcoal for the outdoor cookers.


----------



## Tron

stoveliker said:


> @Tron
> 
> Two damage lines.where they touch.


Thanks, I now see what you mean.
No, I do not have those, seems like my door stops before it touches the frame.


----------



## Nealm66

I heated up chili and fried hotdogs on my princess last year during a power outage lol. Didn’t hurt the paint at all but I didn’t slide anything around. Surprised at how fast it fried the hotdogs, wasn’t even turned up. It’s a newer stove, maybe better paint? Or just being careful helped. I don’t know, I bought a can of factory paint when I bought the stove but haven’t needed it


----------



## elmo_4_vt

BradyBunch said:


> Awesome. I think you're right from everything I'm seeing. We love the Neo but will have to decide if it's worth missing out on the tax credit. Thanks so much!



I have a Chinook 30, and can confirm that there is a space between the main stovetop and the top metal that you could put a pan on.  That said, when the stove is turned up, that surface is still 300-400*.  During a normal burn however, it does go down as low as 170-200.  I've fried an egg on it at those temps just to see if I could, but it took a little longer than it would on the stove.  If you're OK with turning the stove up, it'll work fine, but you may make your house warmer than you want it in the process.   We do keep a cast-iron steamer pot on top as well, and it takes about a full day to burn off a full load of water (about 8 cups).  You can feel steam coming off for the first half of the load (like 5-6 hrs), but not as much as I think you'd get on a solid top stove.

All that said, I still highly recommend the Chinook and BK.  It's really great as a heat source for the house and I still like the look of the chinook.


----------



## elmo_4_vt

Tron said:


> Interesting. I can open my door only to about 90 degrees (totally sufficient), after that it sort of "sticks" and the force required to open further increases significantly, which is why I just don't do it.



Same with me - Just for another data point.


----------



## shgRUSS

If I could add to changes for future models the only thing that comes to mind is the cat probe.  The hot spot on the princess stove top is directly in front of the probe (best spot for any cooking, baking, tea pot, etc.).  The cat probe is just in the way, recessed would be much nicer.


----------



## Tron

shgRUSS said:


> If I could add to changes for future models the only thing that comes to mind is the cat probe.  The hot spot on the princess stove top is directly in front of the probe (best spot for any cooking, baking, tea pot, etc.).  The cat probe is just in the way, recessed would be much nicer.


Not sure how that's done on the Princess, but on my Chinook the cat probe is just dropped in. So once the stove is at temperature, you don't really need the probe for this load anymore, so you could theoretically just pull it out. Might be hot, though.


----------



## stoveliker

shgRUSS said:


> If I could add to changes for future models the only thing that comes to mind is the cat probe.  The hot spot on the princess stove top is directly in front of the probe (best spot for any cooking, baking, tea pot, etc.).  The cat probe is just in the way, recessed would be much nicer.


The hot spot is directly in front of the probe --> the probe is directly downstream from the hot spot. That's because the probe is intended to measure the hotspot...

Recessed would indeed solve this problem.

I would not take it out without covering the hole properly; you'll be sucking in cold air through that hole directly behind the cat. Not good for keeping your chimney warm and possibly not good for your cat.


----------



## shgRUSS

stoveliker said:


> The hot spot is directly in front of the probe --> the probe is directly downstream from the hot spot. That's because the probe is intended to measure the hotspot...
> 
> Recessed would indeed solve this problem.
> 
> I would not take it out without covering the hole properly; you'll be sucking in cold air through that hole directly behind the cat. Not good for keeping your chimney warm and possibly not good for your cat.


I agree, the hole would be a problem that could not be left open


----------



## BKinger

Not feeling the Heat Hi All, This winter, 4th winter with my Ashford 30.2, it doesn't seem like I'm getting the same amount of heat as I did in the previous winters. Previous winters, my thermostat, on average, would be at the 2-3 o'clock position. This year I am averaging at the 4-6 o'clock position. Previous winters, I would have to close my bedroom doors upstairs because it would get too hot up there. This winter, I have to put the heat on up there. My catalyst is glowing nice and orange/red so I am baffled. Any ideas? Maybe my house (built in 2001) became very drafty all of a sudden...


----------



## stoveliker

I'd order a new cat and enough gasket for two swaps. Try the new one, see if that's it. If not, you have the old one and gasket to use more when needed.

Is your wood as dry as before?
(And draft as good- chimney and cap as clean?)


----------



## Highbeam

You can make a dead cat glow if you crank up the thermostat high enough. When running at lower or regular settings, is the chimney smoking? A little white stuff?

Cats only last 10-12k hours. Some of us burn that much in two years. I’ve never had one last for 4!


----------



## charger4406

-35f last night and this morning, have been burning punky cherry
in the King and it's been great, not having any problem with too much
coals during reload.


----------



## BKinger

Highbeam said:


> You can make a dead cat glow if you crank up the thermostat high enough. When running at lower or regular settings, is the chimney smoking? A little white stuff?
> 
> Cats only last 10-12k hours. Some of us burn that much in two years. I’ve never had one last for 4!


10-12k? really? thats not long. I burn from Oct to June so that's a couple of years for me as well. I was thinking my wood (softwood) was too dry but i don't think you can have wood that is too dry. Gonna have to visit the dealership and see about a new Cat, hopefully under warranty. Thanks guys.


----------



## kennyp2339

BKinger said:


> 10-12k? really? thats not long. I burn from Oct to June so that's a couple of years for me as well. I was thinking my wood (softwood) was too dry but i don't think you can have wood that is too dry. Gonna have to visit the dealership and see about a new Cat, hopefully under warranty. Thanks guys.


A good test to see if your cat is worn is to load the stove up, get a good char and make sure the cat probe is within the active range, turn the t-stat to 3 o'clock and then wait, the cat probe should rise to noon, if it gets to noon on a full load and holds then your good to go, if it gets to noon then falls to the inactive / active line while the are large coals or even pieces of wood burning then the cat is shot.
Also when you change your cat, clean the chimney, let the whole system start off fresh. btw I also burn from sometime in Nov - sometime in April and I only get 2.5 burning seasons out of my cat before it needs to be changed, for the ashford free standing stove a ceramic cat will work just fine and they are slightly cheaper then steel ones.


----------



## Highbeam

BKinger said:


> 10-12k? really? thats not long. I burn from Oct to June so that's a couple of years for me as well. I was thinking my wood (softwood) was too dry but i don't think you can have wood that is too dry. Gonna have to visit the dealership and see about a new Cat, hopefully under warranty. Thanks guys.



I burn softwood that is very dry too. 9 month burn season and wood is 100% of our heat so I go through cats.

The best sign for me was white smoke at medium or lower settings and having to use higher settings just to stay warm. You should have nothing but a blue haze occasionally when burning dry softwoods.

Your first cat has a replacement warranty from BK. Use it and then plan on new cats every 10-12k hours. You will love the improvement with a new cat if yours is dead.


----------



## BKinger

kennyp2339 said:


> A good test to see if your cat is worn is to load the stove up, get a good char and make sure the cat probe is within the active range, turn the t-stat to 3 o'clock and then wait, the cat probe should rise to noon, if it gets to noon on a full load and holds then your good to go, if it gets to noon then falls to the inactive / active line while the are large coals or even pieces of wood burning then the cat is shot.
> Also when you change your cat, clean the chimney, let the whole system start off fresh. btw I also burn from sometime in Nov - sometime in April and I only get 2.5 burning seasons out of my cat before it needs to be changed, for the ashford free standing stove a ceramic cat will work just fine and they are slightly cheaper then steel ones.


I'll give this a try when I reload in the morning...


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Your first cat has a replacement warranty from BK.


Really? I had the impression that cats were consumable items. Sure, if it's defective and only lasts 1000 hrs, but after 10k hours I really don't see it as a warranty case as the cat obviously did its job.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> Really? I had the impression that cats were consumable items. Sure, if it's defective and only lasts 1000 hrs, but after 10k hours I really don't see it as a warranty case as the cat obviously did its job.



That’s fine of course but BK chose to provide you a 10 year warranty not based on hours. Why they did this and why they chose years instead of hours is beyond me but you paid for it so feel free to use your warranty per the terms.

I find any warranty or even talk that includes “years” of cat life to be illogical. Then again, these things don’t have hour meters! Other brands have similar catalyst warranties, perhaps this was a business decision in order to improve competitiveness.


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> That’s fine of course but BK chose to provide you a 10 year warranty not based on hours. Why they did this and why they chose years instead of hours is beyond me but you paid for it so feel free to use your warranty per the terms.
> 
> I find any warranty or even talk that includes “years” of cat life to be illogical. Then again, these things don’t have hour meters! Other brands have similar catalyst warranties, perhaps this was a business decision in order to improve competitiveness.


EPA mandate is 8 years for every stove that’s certified


----------



## BKinger

kennyp2339 said:


> A good test to see if your cat is worn is to load the stove up, get a good char and make sure the cat probe is within the active range, turn the t-stat to 3 o'clock and then wait, the cat probe should rise to noon, if it gets to noon on a full load and holds then your good to go, if it gets to noon then falls to the inactive / active line while the are large coals or even pieces of wood burning then the cat is shot.
> Also when you change your cat, clean the chimney, let the whole system start off fresh. btw I also burn from sometime in Nov - sometime in April and I only get 2.5 burning seasons out of my cat before it needs to be changed, for the ashford free standing stove a ceramic cat will work just fine and they are slightly cheaper then steel ones.


Kennyp, it would not hold position when thermo was set to 3:00 so I think this is last bit of confirmation I need that the Cat is burnt. I'll head to my dealer tomorrow to see about getting a new one under warranty. Thanks everyone again.


----------



## Highbeam

BKinger said:


> Kennyp, it would not hold position when thermo was set to 3:00 so I think this is last bit of confirmation I need that the Cat is burnt. I'll head to my dealer tomorrow to see about getting a new one under warranty. Thanks everyone again.



If, for some reason, you are asked to pay for it you should know that replacement cats are available through Amazon for about half the retail price. They are super easy to replace. It’s not a failure, these things just wear out in a predictable manner.


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> If, for some reason, you are asked to pay for it you should know that replacement cats are available through Amazon for about half the retail price. They are super easy to replace. It’s not a failure, these things just wear out in a predictable manner.


Great point Canada has different rules... I'll elaborate on my 1st message, the epa before certifying wants a locked in emission rate of X amount of time (hourly on a unit) with wood stoves its figured 8 years on a single cat to have emissions at or below the 2012 rate, BK extended the warrantee to 10 years because they took an average of all their customers and figured maybe 15 - 25% of us are hard core and within the US, the rest of the owners are either batch burners or out of country, either way us people here on this website are the anomaly and not in a bad way either. 
BTW the US clean air warrantee extends to your personal car or truck, that is also 8 yrs worth of driving, so if your past warrantee but not over 8 years or 80k miles and have emissions issues take the vehicle back to the dealer, they dont want to hear it but the law is vehicles up to 8 years or 80k miles are covered for clean air standards by the dealer / manufacture.


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> EPA mandate is 8 years for every stove that’s certified


Not true as of 2015.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


@bholler has similar observations and personal experience with a lot of stoves. Hope he responds.
I'm puzzled as many folks in Canada and Alaska are happy with their BKs. So, for our education (not to change your mind!), what is your chimney height? (Too much draft could result in what you see, have you measured that?)


----------



## sprawlnstall

stoveliker said:


> @bholler has similar observations and personal experience with a lot of stoves. Hope he responds.
> I'm puzzled as many folks in Canada and Alaska are happy with their BKs. So, for our education (not to change your mind!), what is your chimney height? (Too much draft could result in what you see, have you measured that?)


My Chimney is 23 feet tall, The stove seems to be working great The princess is a great Stove but for my needs I'm asking too much out of it.  I'm not sure if a non cat stove would even be better, just looking for someone who has a similar situation.   My house is around 2600 square feet, I need a stove that can push more btu than a princess and still get an 8 hour burn.


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> My Chimney is 23 feet tall, The stove seems to be working great The princess is a great Stove but for my needs I'm asking too much out of it.  I'm not sure if a non cat stove would even be better, just looking for someone who has a similar situation.   My house is around 2600 square feet, I need a stove that can push more btu than a princess and still get an 8 hour burn.


Lopi Liberty could be a contender in your list too.


----------



## sprawlnstall

stoveliker said:


> Lopi Liberty could be a contender in your list too.


Wow a 3.65 fire box can handle a 24 inch log and still on a 6 inch flue. That is impressive.


----------



## Highbeam

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.



I am currently burning both a princess and an nc30. 

If you have to run the princess wide open to stay warm then it is undersized for your needs on that particular day. It's not a reflection on the stove but of your heating demand. You have to then choose if you want to get a higher output stove for that one day in exchange for an oversized stove the rest of the year. Perhaps you want to just run the furnace to help on that cold day and then enjoy the longer burn times the rest of the year. 

Many of us are lucky enough that the range of outputs from the princess matches the range of heat demand from our particular home. Even in Alaska this can happen.


----------



## jdonna

sprawlnstall said:


> My Chimney is 23 feet tall, The stove seems to be working great The princess is a great Stove but for my needs I'm asking too much out of it.  I'm not sure if a non cat stove would even be better, just looking for someone who has a similar situation.   My house is around 2600 square feet, I need a stove that can push more btu than a princess and still get an 8 hour burn.


Do you have a way to measure stack temps?  I’ve got 25 feet of stack and we just went through another period of -10 to -22 below zero with the princess.  

I’ve had non cats  and another brand cat stove in the past and any wind or sub zero temps were a night mare worrying about over firing and or stack temps too high.  Let’s not even get into blowing through the firewood in the box. 

Our solution here is careful thermostat adjustment and use of a damper when conditions warrant it.  Have a manometer and also probe thermometer to dictate adjustment.

I’d have a hard time going back to a non cat, non thermostat stove.

My two bits!


----------



## sprawlnstall

jdonna said:


> Do you have a way to measure stack temps?  I’ve got 25 feet of stack and we just went through another period of -10 to -22 below zero with the princess.
> 
> I’ve had non cats  and another brand cat stove in the past and any wind or sub zero temps were a night mare worrying about over firing and or stack temps too high.  Let’s not even get into blowing through the firewood in the box.
> 
> Our solution here is careful thermostat adjustment and use of a damper when conditions warrant it.  Have a manometer and also probe thermometer to dictate adjustment.
> 
> I’d have a hard time going back to a non cat, non thermostat stove.
> 
> My two bits!


I don't have a way to measure stack temps, However over firing has never been an issue.  I do notice a much stronger draft when the wind is strong, my solution is to lower the thermostat.  A king would be the ideal stove for my situation, the princess works 7 out of 10 days on average.  I don't mind a hot reload at 2AM but when your gone at work for 8-10 hours is when things get tricky.


----------



## BKVP

How old is your home?  Are windows and doors up to date? What type on insulation is in walls and attic.

I just spent all of last week in Minnesota. Darn cold in Ely!  Plenty of folks have Princess models keeping their homes/shops warm....not certain but might be layout of home or rvalue issues?


----------



## sprawlnstall

Windows and doors are in good shape, not sure on insulation but guessing R-19-R21. The wind is definitely a factor.  I don’t have a problem heating the house when I am home it when I’m gone for more than 8 hours.  2600 square feet is asking a lot from a princess in cold cold climates


----------



## stoveliker

I'm a little surprised that even on high you can't get a 10 hr burn out of a stuffed firebox.
To me that dies suggest an issue. Too much draft or a leak come to mind.

That is independent of the home situation.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> I'm a little surprised that even on high you can't get a 10 hr burn out of a stuffed firebox.
> To me that dies suggest an issue. Too much draft or a leak come to mind.
> 
> That is independent of the home situation.



I've been surprised at what some people consider a stuffed firebox. Lots of short loaders on here that had lots of noncat experience and can't understand full cycles. Also, stuffed with what? Lot's of cottonwood in some parts of the country. 

Windy and Minnesota and 2600 SF built long ago is quite a load.


----------



## sprawlnstall

I can get a 12 hour burn the problem is the house will be 50 degrees.  Coaling is a big issue a stove full stove of coals won’t produce enough heat.


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> I can get a 12 hour burn the problem is the house will be 50 degrees.  Coaling is a big issue a stove full stove of coals won’t produce enough heat.



Ok. Then indeed a bigger stove may be useful imo


----------



## ABMax24

I'm really only seeing 3 options here:

1. Replace your existing flue with an 8"  and a larger stove like a BK King or F5200 (mucho $$$) that can hold enough wood to heat for longer durations. I don't believe a non-cat exists that will heat for 8-10 hours and also run on a 6" flue for your heating load.

2. Add a second stove and flue to the house, you could find a nice spot and put in a ZC fireplace or simply install another 6" flue and put a cheaper non-cat stove in to help assist on the colder days.

3. Leave the stove as is, and continue to pay the utility company to heat your home on the cold days, maybe use the money instead to explore and install better air sealing or insulation.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I've been surprised at what some people consider a stuffed firebox. Lots of short loaders on here that had lots of noncat experience and can't understand full cycles. Also, stuffed with what? Lot's of cottonwood in some parts of the country.
> 
> Windy and Minnesota and 2600 SF built long ago is quite a load.



If I use pine that's a bit punky, I get 12 hr burns - with burn time defined as "just able to restart on the remnants", meaning that indeed there is not enough heat for those 12 hrs.


----------



## Tar12

sprawlnstall said:


> I can get a 12 hour burn the problem is the house will be 50 degrees.  Coaling is a big issue a stove full stove of coals won’t produce enough heat.


I am heating 2000 sq. feet with a Princess..it was -2 last night with a windchill of -12...I loaded the stove around 6:30 last night with a full load of 18%..locust..set the t-stat at 3:00 ...at 7:00 this morning i woke to a 78 degree stove room temp..a little warm for me lol..I opened the air up and let the coals burn down...loaded up a load of oak and waiting for the coals on it to burn down here at 7:30pm...this was not possible prior to my installing new windows,doors,insulation..and house wrap


----------



## Highbeam

There’s no free lunch. If a 3 cf princess can’t do it hot enough for long enough then a 3 cf noncat can’t either. All modern stoves are very efficient.


----------



## stoveliker

That's why I noted the liberty, it's 3.65 (don't know how much of this is usable....)

That's 21 pct more fuel. (Don't know how quick it eats thru it though.)


----------



## sprawlnstall

I do have a wood pellet stove to help out when needed.  Some better insulation may also go a long way.  An 8 inch flue would solve a lot of problems.  The princess is prob the best option right now, I just can’t help but wonder how a big non cat stove would compare.  The JA Roby ultimate looks like a barn heater


----------



## jdonna

sprawlnstall said:


> I don't have a way to measure stack temps, However over firing has never been an issue.  I do notice a much stronger draft when the wind is strong, my solution is to lower the thermostat.  A king would be the ideal stove for my situation, the princess works 7 out of 10 days on average.  I don't mind a hot reload at 2AM but when your gone at work for 8-10 hours is when things get tricky.


 We are in the same state and you are heating roughly about 500 more sq feet than me, but our house was built before MN was a state.  I'm still circling back to possibly too strong of draft, door gasket leak, how full of a load in your stove and fuel quality and or how old the cat is in your stove?    We had a 10 hour overnight burn last night and coldest part of the house was at 61 degrees.  

By no means trying to boast or brag, just not sure any other stove that runs a 6" flue is going to buy you much more?


----------



## jdonna

stoveliker said:


> That's why I noted the liberty, it's 3.65 (don't know how much of this is usable....)
> 
> That's 21 pct more fuel. (Don't know how quick it eats thru it though.)


 I have a friend with a libery that is very jealous of the BK in our house. He's offered to swap stoves. Ha.


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> I have a friend with a libery that is very jealous of the BK in our house. He's offered to swap stoves. Ha.


Aren’t those barrel stove kits set up for 6” flue? Get yourself a big, double, 55 gallon barrel setup for eye melting heat output.


----------



## Nealm66

It’s been perfect princess weather here for the 12hour reload. Fog and about 29-34 steady. Check out the grain in this Doug fir snag I’ve been burning.  Made my stomach tighten up when I chopped it up. Almost flooring grade


----------



## Tar12

sprawlnstall said:


> I do have a wood pellet stove to help out when needed.  Some better insulation may also go a long way.  An 8 inch flue would solve a lot of problems.  The princess is prob the best option right now, I just can’t help but wonder how a big non cat stove would compare.  The JA Roby ultimate looks like a barn heater


I took a good long hard look at that JA Roby Ultimate and decided it was to much for my situation..


----------



## MissMac

stoveliker said:


> I'm a little surprised that even on high you can't get a 10 hr burn out of a stuffed firebox.
> To me that dies suggest an issue. Too much draft or a leak come to mind.
> 
> That is independent of the home situation.


If I run my stove on high, i'm definitely not getting a 10 hour burn.  A full load of jack pine stuffed to the gills would give me roughly 4-5 hours depending on if I had the fan cranked, which I likely would if I was running the stove on high.  However, I have noticed that I can pretty much get a very similar heat output with the stove dialed down just a wee bit (like a 5 o'clock position) and extend the burn a couple more hours, but still not close to 10 hours.  If I need to run my stove wide open in the dead of winter, I'm feeding it and chewing through wood.  But to me that's okay because it's minus 40*C outside, and the stove heat is wonderful.


----------



## kennyp2339

Heating about 1500 sq ft from a non insulated basement, -2 this morning, loaded the stove around 9pm with white oak, woke up at 6am to upstairs temp of 67, down stairs close to 80, raked some coals around and reloaded, no complaints here. I did go outside about 1 hour after reloading, I have a 3ft plume of wispy steam and thats it, I'm thinking I've burnt about 1.5 - 1.75 cords so far this winter and the cap looks like I just cleaned it, so I have everything dialed in perfectly.


----------



## kennyp2339

MissMac said:


> If I run my stove on high, i'm definitely not getting a 10 hour burn.


I've been playing around with my highest t stat setting for my application, when it gets really cold I'm finding that my point with the damper set a certain way will yield great flames, but more importantly a vibrant glowing coal base but not full on high to where I feel like I'm sending more heat up the stack then necessary. My burns at that magic setting are right at that 10hr of useful heat, after ten hours the basement stays warm but I will start to gently loose upstairs heat according to my graph on the weather station. Its a balance of gain or holding a certain line which makes for longer burns. If I go higher on the t-stat setting I'll get more heat, also loose more up the stack but I will also shorten the burn time and loose more upstairs net heat due to faster cool off since I'm 2x4 cons.


----------



## stoveliker

MissMac said:


> If I run my stove on high, i'm definitely not getting a 10 hour burn.  A full load of jack pine stuffed to the gills would give me roughly 4-5 hours depending on if I had the fan cranked, which I likely would if I was running the stove on high.  However, I have noticed that I can pretty much get a very similar heat output with the stove dialed down just a wee bit (like a 5 o'clock position) and extend the burn a couple more hours, but still not close to 10 hours.  If I need to run my stove wide open in the dead of winter, I'm feeding it and chewing through wood.  But to me that's okay because it's minus 40*C outside, and the stove heat is wonderful.



Ok, your outside is of course quite a bit colder (but I don't think that affects the thermostat of the stove much as it's not set up to measure room temperature). And I don't have a fan. My pine has been pitch-pine. And the outside (of 7" splits) has been 1/2" punky.

Ah well, every install is different. And I don't know how consistent my observation is, as this year was the first year with a face cord or so of fairly good quality (and bigger splits) of pine.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

Howdy folks, I've been looking at a Princess insert for the main fireplace and have read mention of outside air kits available for these, but haven't seen any literature.

Can anyone point me in the direction of literature regarding the kit?  We had a Hearthstone at our old place that I added one to and it made a huge difference in drafts around the windows.  I'd really like to utilize one when my Princess comes in.


----------



## BKVP

OH_Varmntr said:


> Howdy folks, I've been looking at a Princess insert for the main fireplace and have read mention of outside air kits available for these, but haven't seen any literature.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of literature regarding the kit?  We had a Hearthstone at our old place that I added one to and it made a huge difference in drafts around the windows.  I'd really like to utilize one when my Princess comes in.


I'm sorry we do not have fresh air kits for any of our 3 inserts.

BKVP


----------



## MissMac

kennyp2339 said:


> I've been playing around with my highest t stat setting for my application, when it gets really cold I'm finding that my point with the damper set a certain way will yield great flames, but more importantly a vibrant glowing coal base but not full on high to where I feel like I'm sending more heat up the stack then necessary. My burns at that magic setting are right at that 10hr of useful heat, after ten hours the basement stays warm but I will start to gently loose upstairs heat according to my graph on the weather station. Its a balance of gain or holding a certain line which makes for longer burns. If I go higher on the t-stat setting I'll get more heat, also loose more up the stack but I will also shorten the burn time and loose more upstairs net heat due to faster cool off since I'm 2x4 cons.


For sure, agree with your comments.  I was simply commenting on the fact that there's no 10 hour burns on high at my place.  To me when someone on here says they're burning on high, that means throttle maxed out/wide open.  Not the adjusted sweet spot.


----------



## begreen

MissMac said:


> For sure, agree with your comments.  I was simply commenting on the fact that there's no 10 hour burns on high at my place.  To me when someone on here says they're burning on high, that means throttle maxed out/wide open.  Not the adjusted sweet spot.


bholler noticed the same thing. Makes sense, when the stove is being pressed for heat, the burn time will drop considerably. Same thing happens with our stove. It goes from 12 hrs burns to 8 hrs when I need to push it.


----------



## bholler

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


I went from a regency 3100 to a princess and I have the same issue.  The regency heated the house comfortably down to single digits on 8 hour burns.  The princess can't keep up in the lower 20s running on 8 hour cycles.


----------



## bholler

Highbeam said:


> There’s no free lunch. If a 3 cf princess can’t do it hot enough for long enough then a 3 cf noncat can’t either. All modern stoves are very efficient.


My experience says otherwise.


----------



## Tron

begreen said:


> bholler noticed the same thing. Makes sense, when the stove is being pressed for heat, the burn time will drop considerably. Same thing happens with our stove. It goes from 12 hrs burns to 8 hrs when I need to push it.


Which is totally not surprising. As the stove contains a fixed amount of fuel, or energy, and a burn rate is defined as energy divided by time, raising the burn rate will inevitably lower the burn time. Math doesn't lie.


----------



## Tron

bholler said:


> I went from a regency 3100 to a princess and I have the same issue.  The regency heated the house comfortably down to single digits on 8 hour burns.  The princess can't keep up in the lower 20s running on 8 hour cycles.


The only two explanations for this are:
- the regency is more effective (less waste heat through the stack, rather unlikely as it's a non-cat) or
- the regency can be loaded with more fuel (mass) because it has a larger firebox. That I do not know.


----------



## Highbeam

bholler said:


> My experience says otherwise.


It’s basic thermodynamics. There is only so much energy in a lb of wood.

How do you explain the perceived extra delivered heat from the same amount of fuel?


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> It’s basic thermodynamics.


Very basic. One does not even need to factor in entropy, it's all enthalpy. ;-)


----------



## bholler

Highbeam said:


> It’s basic thermodynamics. There is only so much energy in a lb of wood.
> 
> As I recall, you were short loading the princess.


I am trying to heat my house when the princess no longer maintains temperature in the house I put more wood in.  Call it what ever you want.


----------



## BKVP

What's all this 8-10 hour stuff...I get 12 hours on HIGH! (Oh yeah, mines bigger!) Stove KE40


----------



## bholler

Tron said:


> The only two explanations for this are:
> - the regency is more effective (less waste heat through the stack, rather unlikely as it's a non-cat) or
> - the regency can be loaded with more fuel (mass) because it has a larger firebox. That I do not know.


It is also very possible when pushed the efficiency of the princess drops while the regency was in it's sweet spot for efficiency.  This is confirmed by relatively high exhaust temps from the princess when running for 8 hours. 
 Overall I do like the princess the even heat is great.  It just doesn't have the power I need.


----------



## Highbeam

bholler said:


> I am trying to heat my house when the princess no longer maintains temperature in the house I put more wood in.  Call it what ever you want.



It matters because a short loaded 3CF princess can't compete with a fully loaded 3CF noncat. There is more fuel in the noncat to heat your home. It's like you are intentionally trying to stack the deck to prove something. 

If both stoves are similar in efficiency which you usually argue they are, and both are burning the same amount of fuel for 8 hours, then both are delivering the same heat to the room. Thing is, your short loading of the princess means that it runs out of fuel sooner and the house cools off.


----------



## Highbeam

bholler said:


> Overall I do like the princess the even heat is great. It just doesn't have the power I need.



I agree. The range of burn rates from the princess is too low for your demand which causes all sorts of perceived problems for you.


----------



## bholler

Highbeam said:


> It matters because a short loaded 3CF princess can't compete with a fully loaded 3CF noncat. There is more fuel in the noncat to heat your home. It's like you are intentionally trying to stack the deck to prove something.
> 
> If both stoves are similar in efficiency which you usually argue they are, and both are burning the same amount of fuel for 8 hours, then both are delivering the same heat to the room. Thing is, your short loading of the princess means that it runs out of fuel sooner and the house cools off.


Really???  So you are saying I should wait to load my stove for hours while it isn't producing enough heat?  What would that gain me?

Why would I want to prove anything?  I just want to heat my house


----------



## bholler

Highbeam said:


> I agree. The range of burn rates from the princess is too low for your demand which causes all sorts of perceived problems for you.


I didn't say it was a problem.  I have repeatedly said I like the stove over all.


----------



## Tron

bholler said:


> I didn't say it was a problem.  I have repeatedly said I like the stove over all.


Luckily, this is a free country, so everyone is allowed to use the stove they want. If you think that the Princess cannot deliver what you want from it, but the Regency can, you should probably go back to it.


----------



## Todd

bholler said:


> It is also very possible when pushed the efficiency of the princess drops while the regency was in it's sweet spot for efficiency.  This is confirmed by relatively high exhaust temps from the princess when running for 8 hours.
> Overall I do like the princess the even heat is great.  It just doesn't have the power I need.


This is something I’ve also wondered. Cat stoves seem to be built for those long steady low outputs but when you increase the air how much does efficiency drop from the exhaust flow not having the time to reburn in the cat. Im beginning to understand where a properly built hybrid would give the best of both worlds.


----------



## bholler

Tron said:


> Luckily, this is a free country, so everyone is allowed to use the stove they want. If you think that the Princess cannot deliver what you want from it, but the Regency can, you should probably go back to it.


I don't understand why you guys get so defensive.  I never said the bk was a bad stove.  I was asked to give my input based upon my experience.  I did just that


----------



## Tron

Todd said:


> but when you increase the air how much does efficiency drop from the exhaust flow not having the time to reburn in the cat.


Well, if you just removed the cat, you'd have a non-cat (within reason), so even if none of the gases would reburn in the cat, you'd drop down to the efficiency of a non-cat.


----------



## BKVP

Gentlemen, 100% of these stoves have test reports posted by law on the manufacturers websites.  Some are easier than other to find.  Assumptions or statements as to efficiencies at various or overall burn rates are in the test reports.

Look them up....


----------



## spudman99

Perhaps I can change the topic herein.  This question is simply a mental exercise, hoping to expand my  understanding of a stove.

My Princess Insert is rated at 43k Btu on max burn.  That must be with the fan on full.  
Princess free standing stove is rated at 53K Btu and I assume that is without the fan package.

1. How much difference is 8K btu in total heat output?  Is that even noticeable?
2. I realize that an insert has far less exposed box for radiant heating, but is that drop off so dramatic in total output relative to how warm a room might feel?  In other words, would a free standing princess in the same room be that much warmer than an insert running on full fan?
3. Is perhaps the difference between the stoves related to "radiant" heat versus "convective" heat?

No complaints and my insert works fine, easily get 12 hour burns with the room at 68deg when it is 15deg or below outside.  When I shoot the IR gun at the walls, it reads 65 about 2' from the floor and 60deg at the rug level, so I figure my 40 year old house is lacking in some thermal retention.


----------



## Tron

spudman99 said:


> When I shoot the IR gun at the walls, it reads 65 about 2' from the floor and 60deg at the rug level, so I figure my 40 year old house is lacking in some thermal retention.


Depends. We down here often have stained concrete floors, at least my house does, meaning that it's just the top of the poured foundation. And that always is significantly colder than the walls 2' up.


----------



## stoveliker

spudman99 said:


> Perhaps I can change the topic herein.  This question is simply a mental exercise, hoping to expand my  understanding of a stove.
> 
> My Princess Insert is rated at 43k Btu on max burn.  That must be with the fan on full.
> Princess free standing stove is rated at 53K Btu and I assume that is without the fan package.
> 
> 1. How much difference is 8K btu in total heat output?  Is that even noticeable?
> 2. I realize that an insert has far less exposed box for radiant heating, but is that drop off so dramatic in total output relative to how warm a room might feel?  In other words, would a free standing princess in the same room be that much warmer than an insert running on full fan?
> 3. Is perhaps the difference between the stoves related to "radiant" heat versus "convective" heat?
> 
> No complaints and my insert works fine, easily get 12 hour burns with the room at 68deg when it is 15deg or below outside.  When I shoot the IR gun at the walls, it reads 65 about 2' from the floor and 60deg at the rug level, so I figure my 40 year old house is lacking in some thermal retention.



Radiation vs convection does not make a difference in BTUs out put. It might make a difference in experience, though that depends on what a person prefers.

The 8k you note should be not negligible, given that my 11k or so (on low) definitely puts out heat that I experience and can measure (otherwise I would not light the stove and run it on low...). 

This is all apart from the above discussion.


----------



## Silenced38

My princess has been burning great until a few days ago. First off when I got it, it looked as if the thermostat know was installed upside down. Which I figured wasn't a problem. I could still judge where I am setting the dial. A couple days ago I set the dial as I was for night time burn but it was burning as it was almost wide open. I've done thus a couple nights now.  I just reloaded and noticed that the tstat knob has about a 1/2 where the know is turning but not adjusting the air flow. After turning it several times I noticed the 1/2" of no adjustment shifts around. Is there something that needs to be tightened? If so where? Thanks.


----------



## bholler

Tron said:


> Well, if you just removed the cat, you'd have a non-cat (within reason), so even if none of the gases would reburn in the cat, you'd drop down to the efficiency of a non-cat.


You are assuming that all hybrids are just tube stoves with a cat slapped in them that is not the case.


----------



## bholler

Silenced38 said:


> My princess has been burning great until a few days ago. First off when I got it, it looked as if the thermostat know was installed upside down. Which I figured wasn't a problem. I could still judge where I am setting the dial. A couple days ago I set the dial as I was for night time burn but it was burning as it was almost wide open. I've done thus a couple nights now.  I just reloaded and noticed that the tstat knob has about a 1/2 where the know is turning but not adjusting the air flow. After turning it several times I noticed the 1/2" of no adjustment shifts around. Is there something that needs to be tightened? If so where? Thanks.


There is a little set screw that holds the knob in place


----------



## Silenced38

bholler said:


> There is a little set screw that holds the knob in place


Thanks. It was loose. I'm really happy with the stove. Keeps the house warm and plenty of coals in the mornings for reload. I was sure when I looked at it the rod was turning. Not just the knob. Next time I'll start out with my glasses on.


----------



## jdonna

bholler said:


> This is confirmed by relatively high exhaust temps from the princess when running for 8 hours.


Couple that with a taller stack, sub zero temps and or wind and you are blowing the heat up the stack.  Someone saying running high wide open on one setup can mean running on medium on another setup.   

Knowing stack temps and what your chimney actually drafts takes a lot of mystery out of the equation.


----------



## bholler

jdonna said:


> Couple that with a taller stack, sub zero temps and or wind and you are blowing the heat up the stack.  Someone saying running high wide open on one setup can mean running on medium on another setup.
> 
> Knowing stack temps and what your chimney actually drafts takes a lot of mystery out of the equation.


Do you really think I don't know exactly what my draft is???   I don't have a taller stack.  My draft is setup to be spot on at about 25 degrees outside.  Slightly high when it gets down in single digits.

You are absolutely right the setup can change things dramatically but mine is Installed to spec


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> Couple that with a taller stack, sub zero temps and or wind and you are blowing the heat up the stack.  Someone saying running high wide open on one setup can mean running on medium on another setup.
> 
> Knowing stack temps and what your chimney actually drafts takes a lot of mystery out of the equation.



Keep in mind that a BK running at max stat setting is not the same as a noncat with the throttle actually wide open. The BK will reduce the throttle once stove temperature hits setpoint. Still, going to be less efficient at max than at low. By “some” amount.


----------



## Todd

BKVP said:


> Gentlemen, 100% of these stoves have test reports posted by law on the manufacturers websites.  Some are easier than other to find.  Assumptions or statements as to efficiencies at various or overall burn rates are in the test reports.
> 
> Look them up....


I’d rather look at real world reviews on this site than an EPA lab test with perfectly spaced crib wood and optimum draft setup.


----------



## BKVP

Todd said:


> I’d rather look at real world reviews on this site than an EPA lab test with perfectly spaced crib wood and optimum draft setup.


I 100% agree with personal reviews.  But, the data is valuable within the same test methods because of reduced variability.   They aren't real world,  but for stove to stove comparison,  it's as close to reliable as you can get.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

BKVP said:


> I'm sorry we do not have fresh air kits for any of our 3 inserts.
> 
> BKVP


Copy that.  I have a Princess on order and will figure something out.


----------



## kennyp2339

Whats confusing with epa btu numbers vs real world numbers is when stove companies openly advertise as part of a selling point that the lower btu output is associated with the epa testing using cribbed wood and if you use cord wood you'll see higher btu's, check out 2021 lopi liberty specs, its there in black and white. What I'm trying to say is that is a disadvantage to the customer to take a minimum base line, remove the discipline and bank on the user having a different but better experience with no control source material.


----------



## Nealm66

Silenced38 said:


> Thanks. It was loose. I'm really happy with the stove. Keeps the house warm and plenty of coals in the mornings for reload. I was sure when I looked at it the rod was turning. Not just the knob. Next time I'll start out with my glasses on.


Aw man, the clocks on backwards would have made for some good chatter


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> Whats confusing with epa btu numbers vs real world numbers is when stove companies openly advertise as part of a selling point that the lower btu output is associated with the epa testing using cribbed wood and if you use cord wood you'll see higher btu's, check out 2021 lopi liberty specs, its there in black and white. What I'm trying to say is that is a disadvantage to the customer to take a minimum base line, remove the discipline and bank on the user having a different but better experience with no control source material.


Brochure numbers would have you believe one thing and the narrative of others may try to reinforce that position.  However, as I have posted many times, test reports are available for anyone to read and compare. Of course you need to know how to read the reports and the nuances of the different methods.  However, as I posted yesterday, M28R, the crib fuel method IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE NOR WAS IT EVER POSITIONED AS SUCH TO REFLECT REAL WORLD EMISSIONS FROM WOOD HEATERS, but it is the most tenured method and also the method that produces results with as little variability as possible.  For comparison purposes, here are two stoves, #1 being the PE32.  Both tested to M28R.  Both use a catalytic combustor.  Brochures and some narrative would have you believe the difference is much more than it really is.  Efficiency and Btu's taken directly from the test reports.  I'd say the differences are insignificant and that is where it's important to have real world input on the performance.  But this data demonstrates a pretty level playing field.  This is where other features of the stoves come into play, ie. ash capacity, user friendly controls, ease of use & maintenance etc.


----------



## Todd

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


2800 sq ft is asking a lot for any wood stove to heat but if you can stand the looks maybe take a peek at the Woodstock Ideal Steel. It seems to be a well designed hybrid that could possibly give you a little more output on the high end while still giving those nice long burns during the shoulder season. Best of both worlds maybe?


----------



## sprawlnstall

Todd said:


> 2800 sq ft is asking a lot for any wood stove to heat but if you can stand the looks maybe take a peek at the Woodstock Ideal Steel. It seems to be a well designed hybrid that could possibly give you a little more output on the high end while still giving those nice long burns during the shoulder season. Best of both worlds maybe?


The firebox is slightly bigger, Can anyone explain what hybrid means?  The cat also looks easier to get to, I actually like the look, function before fashion.


----------



## bholler

BKVP said:


> Brochure numbers would have you believe one thing and the narrative of others may try to reinforce that position.  However, as I have posted many times, test reports are available for anyone to read and compare. Of course you need to know how to read the reports and the nuances of the different methods.  However, as I posted yesterday, M28R, the crib fuel method IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE NOR WAS IT EVER POSITIONED AS SUCH TO REFLECT REAL WORLD EMISSIONS FROM WOOD HEATERS, but it is the most tenured method and also the method that produces results with as little variability as possible.  For comparison purposes, here are two stoves, #1 being the PE32.  Both tested to M28R.  Both use a catalytic combustor.  Brochures and some narrative would have you believe the difference is much more than it really is.  Efficiency and Btu's taken directly from the test reports.  I'd say the differences are insignificant and that is where it's important to have real world input on the performance.  But this data demonstrates a pretty level playing field.  This is where other features of the stoves come into play, ie. ash capacity, user friendly controls, ease of use & maintenance etc.
> 
> View attachment 290938


But would you say it is fair to say that the BTU output of blaze king stoves that are controlled by a thermostat are not as effected by load density and wood species as many others?  Of course burn time will be effected drastically but ammout and density of fuel.  

I have found in my experience heat output in the noncats I have used was controlled as much by wood species and how I loaded the stove as the air control.  But with the bk the heat output doesn't change much with those factors.  Just burn time


----------



## bholler

sprawlnstall said:


> The firebox is slightly bigger, Can anyone explain what hybrid means?  The cat also looks easier to get to, I actually like the look, function before fashion.


A hybrid combines a catalytic combustor and some other form of secondary combustion.  Usually air tubes


----------



## sprawlnstall

bholler said:


> A hybrid combines a catalytic combustor and some other form of secondary combustion.  Usually air tubes


would it operate the same way as a blaze king princess?


----------



## bholler

sprawlnstall said:


> would it operate the same way as a blaze king princess?


No because the princess is thermostatically controlled.  I can't think of any hybrids that are


----------



## sprawlnstall

bholler said:


> No because the princess is thermostatically controlled.  I can't think of any hybrids that are


I see it still has a bypass lever, what would be different when loading the stove? would the stove temp be controlled by a damper?


----------



## bholler

sprawlnstall said:


> I see it still has a bypass lever, what would be different when loading the stove? would the stove temp be controlled by a damper?


The temp in what stove?  But yes almost any stove with a cat will have a bypass.  The jotul Oslo v3 is the only one without a bypass


----------



## sprawlnstall

bholler said:


> The temp in what stove?


In the ideal steel.   After the bypass is engaged how do you control the temp if there is no thermostat dial like the BK


----------



## bholler

sprawlnstall said:


> In the ideal steel.   After the bypass is engaged how do you control the temp if there is no thermostat dial like the BK


With the air intake like most other stoves


----------



## BKVP

bholler said:


> But would you say it is fair to say that the BTU output of blaze king stoves that are controlled by a thermostat are not as effected by load density and wood species as many others?  Of course burn time will be effected drastically but ammout and density of fuel.
> 
> I have found in my experience heat output in the noncats I have used was controlled as much by wood species and how I loaded the stove as the air control.  But with the bk the heat output doesn't change much with those factors.  Just burn time


Yes, mostly accurate.  The species is a bit tricky.  While the Btu's are the same for a pound of biomass, you can get more pounds of hardwoods into a firebox than let's say pine.  Therefore more pounds x btu's means more Btu's in the firebox.  Otherwise, I think you are correct.


----------



## Highbeam

sprawlnstall said:


> I see it still has a bypass lever, what would be different when loading the stove? would the stove temp be controlled by a damper?



The IS is a really good stove. It's fairly inexpensive, welded steel, capable of very long (almost princess long) burn times, and makes excellent marks for efficiency and low emissions. The catalyst access is superior to the princess. People that own them almost all love them. One irritating drawback is that the IS requires a hearth insulation level where the princess allows ember protection only. 

Operation is just like the princess except the intake air control is not thermostatic so you have to manually set it like you would with all stoves other than BK. 

Sure it is 3.2 cubic feet compared to the 2.9 princess but woodstock has been known to exaggerate this measurement and the top of the stove is heavily angled which prevents a complete fill unless you chuck the top few pieces in sideways. I would just call them similarly sized. The secondary air feed on the IS does not use tubes but a perforated stainless steel roof. 

You will need to deal with shipping to your house and no local dealer. Maybe no big deal but you should be aware.


----------



## bholler

BKVP said:


> Yes, mostly accurate.  The species is a bit tricky.  While the Btu's are the same for a pound of biomass, you can get more pounds of hardwoods into a firebox than let's say pine.  Therefore more pounds x btu's means more Btu's in the firebox.  Otherwise, I think you are correct.


Yes I get that difference between hard wood and soft wood.   But in your stoves where the stove temp is controlled by the thermostat isn't most of that BTU content translated into longer burn time instead of more BTU output?


----------



## stoveliker

bholler said:


> Yes I get that difference between hard wood and soft wood.   But in your stoves where the stove temp is controlled by the thermostat isn't most of that BTU content translated into longer burn time instead of more BTU output?


yes; because the thing that controls the process (Tstat) has only one input: temperature. It keeps that the same. Hence if more energy goes in, and temps are kept the same, then the time to liberate that energy from the fuel will be longer.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> The IS is a really good stove. It's fairly inexpensive, welded steel, capable of very long (almost princess long) burn times, and makes excellent marks for efficiency and low emissions. The catalyst access is superior to the princess. People that own them almost all love them. One irritating drawback is that the IS requires a hearth insulation level where the princess allows ember protection only.
> 
> Operation is just like the princess except the intake air control is not thermostatic so you have to manually set it like you would with all stoves other than BK.
> 
> Sure it is 3.2 cubic feet compared to the 2.9 princess but woodstock has been known to exaggerate this measurement and the top of the stove is heavily angled which prevents a complete fill unless you chuck the top few pieces in sideways. I would just call them similarly sized. The secondary air feed on the IS does not use tubes but a perforated stainless steel roof.
> 
> You will need to deal with shipping to your house and no local dealer. Maybe no big deal but you should be aware.


I have to say that my BK Chinook also has an "irritating" design issue regarding the firebox. 
In the middle of the width of the box is the cat sticking down. That's fine. But on the sides the air tubes (supply to airwash) are angled, and they are down in the back.
So, the top is not "level" and one can't say "ok, less N/S loading because I get in trouble on the sides in teh back because of the tubes - let's instead put a thinner piece E/W on top in the front" - because the cat housing is there.

I understand the cat housing *has* to be there (...), but I'd have liked very much if the air supply tubes would have been horizontal, rather than sloping up from back to front. I.e. if they  would have been a little higher in the back.
Now there is a lot of space lost because of the 3 low points: back left and right, and front middle.

But then I do recognize I'm talking about only a thin layer of small splits that I'm missing, and if I would be able to put those in, I'll find another gripe where I want to add one more split, and it just can't be done.

I guess that's why they made the King.

(still, I hope the design engineers take note of this remark ...)


----------



## bholler

stoveliker said:


> yes; because the thing that controls the process (Tstat) has only one input: temperature. It keeps that the same. Hence if more energy goes in, and temps are kept the same, then the time to liberate that energy from the fuel will be longer.


So because of that the EPA BTU ratings of a thermostatically controlled stove will not be as effected by the low density load of the EPA testing as non thermostatic stoves right?  

By the way I am in no way saying this is any problem with blaze kings.  Or implying that they are in some way cheating the test or being misleading


----------



## stoveliker

bholler said:


> So because of that the EPA BTU ratings of a thermostatically controlled stove will not be as effected by the low density load of the EPA testing as non thermostatic stoves right?
> 
> By the way I am in no way saying this is any problem with blaze kings.  Or implying that they are in some way cheating the test or being misleading



You need to specify what "BTU rating".
*Max*? Sure the max won't be not much different with that test method, I think (if enough wood is loaded) - b/c the thermostat essentially sets some kind of a max to the output,  see "no overfiring" statements.

BTU output *total* from a load of fuel should not matter between the two stoves; it's measured and integrated over time (and is simply a "fuel in and efficiency percentage" matter).

Basically, I'm saying that a non-Tstat stove will have more of a peak in output. That equates to a higher max. It is less possible to "crank" a BK Tstat stove to such a max.

I find such "max" values less interesting in what I want from a stove, though.
In the end (as you have noted) it's how long a stove can keep the home comfortable (to me).


----------



## bholler

stoveliker said:


> You need to specify what "BTU rating".
> *Max*? Sure the max won't be not much different with that test method, I think (if enough wood is loaded) - b/c the thermostat essentially sets some kind of a max to the output,  see "no overfiring" statements.
> 
> BTU output *total* from a load of fuel should not matter between the two stoves; it's measured and integrated over time (and is simply a "fuel in and efficiency percentage" matter).
> 
> Basically, I'm saying that a non-Tstat stove will have more of a peak in output. That equates to a higher max. It is less possible to "crank" a BK Tstat stove to such a max.
> 
> I find such "max" values less interesting in what I want from a stove, though.
> In the end (as you have noted) it's how long a stove can keep the home comfortable (to me).


Yes absolutely the overall BTU output across the whole burn won't change much.


----------



## jdonna

bholler said:


> Do you really think I don't know exactly what my draft is??? I don't have a taller stack. My draft is setup to be spot on at about 25 degrees outside. Slightly high when it gets down in single digits.


This was not meant to be directed at you saying you don't know what your draft is.  It was an add on to the converstation of "Can't get a decent burn time on High."  I'm trying to convey to members, especially new ones that setups are different as are weather conditions.   

For Newer BK members: 
There are so many variables on performance, how full you load, moisture content of the fuel, species of fuel, how long you char the load, amount of coals on reload, catalytic condition, gaskets in good condition, thermostat setting, outside air temp and draft/stack temp, coupled with overall chimney design.

On our particular setup monitoring draft and stack temps, running on high is 2x-3x the rate it should be and the flames and heat are out the front and up the stack.    If I control draft more in line to the specs, the heat and flame shifts further back more directed at the where the thermostat is located and it regulates much better. 

Here's a good read for anyone interested on technicals of chimneys: 



			http://abata.sdsmt.edu/pdf_files/ME419/stack_effect.pdf


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> The IS is a really good stove. It's fairly inexpensive, welded steel, capable of very long (almost princess long) burn times, and makes excellent marks for efficiency and low emissions. The catalyst access is superior to the princess. People that own them almost all love them. One irritating drawback is that the IS requires a hearth insulation level where the princess allows ember protection only.


The earlier production IS had some issues with the cat sled warping and the firebox door opening cracking, but WS fixed the one effected and have seemed to corrected it in current production.   It's a fun place to tour and see their facility, a lot of pride in their workmanship.   

We were going to go from the fireview to a progress or IS but went the direction of BK princess due to the thermostat and single air input, works out better in our particular setup.  

We are fortunate to have some choices of excellent stoves and manufactures!


----------



## Highbeam

jdonna said:


> The earlier production IS had some issues with the cat sled warping and the firebox door opening cracking, but WS fixed the one effected and have seemed to corrected it in current production.   It's a fun place to tour and see their facility, a lot of pride in their workmanship.
> 
> We were going to go from the fireview to a progress or IS but went the direction of BK princess due to the thermostat and single air input, works out better in our particular setup.
> 
> We are fortunate to have some choices of excellent stoves and manufactures!


Oh BKs aren't perfect either. I've seen cracked door openings, holes corroded through the body, and other damage that may or may not have been caused by "abuse" but those are very rare.

The IS, if you can handle the looks and direct buy issue, is a really high performance stove. Less draft sensitive than the BK too if you can't handle the occasional whiff of smoke.  

Either would be a great investment from great companies.


----------



## mewop

I have a new KE40 that I started using one year ago. The door hinge I noticed was wearing with each open and close. It initially needed a bit of pushing in on the handle to close it as it was a bit snug. I did not adjust the nut from the factor - the door was already installed on the pallet when I received it. The handle now swings down very easily and I'm afraid the gasket is not going to seal well after another mm or two loss of handle thickness. The dollar test is still fine, but it's not farm from needing to adjust the nut to increase the door tension. Is this normal wear for the handle? It does seem like a soft metal. I've tried pressing on the door a bit so the contact is not as abrasive with each open and close but the nature of the mechanism there will always be friction between the two.
I have a flat ruler in front of where the hinge contacts to show the eroded metal in the photo.
The lower portion of this (the 45 degree lower section) has a bit more erosion than the vertical upper section in this photo


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> Oh BKs aren't perfect either. I've seen cracked door openings, holes corroded through the body, and other damage that may or may not have been caused by "abuse" but those are very rare.
> 
> The IS, if you can handle the looks and direct buy issue, is a really high performance stove. Less draft sensitive than the BK too if you can't handle the occasional whiff of smoke.
> 
> Either would be a great investment from great companies.


Agree 100%


----------



## BKVP

bholler said:


> Yes I get that difference between hard wood and soft wood.   But in your stoves where the stove temp is controlled by the thermostat isn't most of that BTU content translated into longer burn time instead of more BTU output?


If you set the thermostat to maximum heat output (better stated..max burn rate) it will produce that maximum just like any other stove, but it won't go over that burn rate, like other stoves might.

I should remind everyone,  our thermostat is designed to protect the combustor from repeatedly reaching that point where the washcoat is damaged.  The benefit of that is the conversion of an unmetered fuel into a metered fuel.

As stove subjected to extreme differentials of indoor versus outdoor can be less controlled in terms of burn rate.  I've witnessed beautifully and quality build stoves "glowing" because of the inability to stop that excessive stack effect.  Some warranties actually preclude coverage for "over fired" instances.

Of course regardless of stove or technology, unless you continually feed it fuel, NONE of them maintain promoted or even tested Btu ratings.

You might find it interesting to read a few reports where "max Btu's" were sustained for less than 5 minutes!

So really, it doesn't matter much.  Back to what I have written and you and others have supported, we all write about our own experiences. That is what matters...so long we are always clear, it's our own experience. 

BKVP


----------



## Highbeam

mewop said:


> I have a new KE40 that I started using one year ago. The door hinge I noticed was wearing with each open and close. It initially needed a bit of pushing in on the handle to close it as it was a bit snug. I did not adjust the nut from the factor - the door was already installed on the pallet when I received it. The handle now swings down very easily and I'm afraid the gasket is not going to seal well after another mm or two loss of handle thickness. The dollar test is still fine, but it's not farm from needing to adjust the nut to increase the door tension. Is this normal wear for the handle? It does seem like a soft metal. I've tried pressing on the door a bit so the contact is not as abrasive with each open and close but the nature of the mechanism there will always be friction between the two.
> I have a flat ruler in front of where the hinge contacts to show the eroded metal in the photo.
> The lower portion of this (the 45 degree lower section) has a bit more erosion than the vertical upper section in this photo
> 
> View attachment 290967


Aside from the odd brass colored area indicating paint loss over brass, wear on that latch is normal. It won't ever add up to much. My 2012 model has quite a deep groove worn into it because older models like mine used a round bolt hook on the stove side of the latch while your newer model uses a better flattened hook.

It is normal for the door gasket to crush down and need adjustment. Especially a new one. After the initial crush it shouldn't need adjustment very often.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> If you set the thermostat to maximum heat output (better stated..max burn rate) it will produce that maximum just like any other stove, but it won't go over that burn rate, like other stoves might.
> 
> I should remind everyone,  our thermostat is designed to protect the combustor from repeatedly reaching that point where the washcoat is damaged.  The benefit of that is the conversion of an unmetered fuel into a metered fuel.
> 
> As stove subjected to extreme differentials of indoor versus outdoor can be less controlled in terms of burn rate.  I've witnessed beautifully and quality build stoves "glowing" because of the inability to stop that excessive stack effect.  Some warranties actually preclude coverage for "over fired" instances.
> 
> Of course regardless of stove or technology, unless you continually feed it fuel, NONE of them maintain promoted or even tested Btu ratings.
> 
> You might find it interesting to read a few reports where "max Btu's" were sustained for less than 5 minutes!
> 
> So really, it doesn't matter much.  Back to what I have written and you and others have supported, we all write about our own experiences. That is what matters...so long we are always clear, it's our own experience.
> 
> BKVP


I do appreciate the "safety" feature of a thermostat designed to not overfire the stove. It's a big deal and a good idea. In theory, the thermostat also should prevent underfiring as well. These features should not be overlooked.


----------



## showrguy

Highbeam said:


> I do appreciate the "safety" feature of a thermostat designed to not overfire the stove. It's a big deal and a good idea. In theory, the thermostat also should prevent underfiring as well. These features should not be overlooked.


That would be impossible !!


----------



## jdonna

BKVP said:


> If you set the thermostat to maximum heat output (better stated..max burn rate) it will produce that maximum just like any other stove, but it won't go over that burn rate, like other stoves might.


Wondering if you have any data on what the internal stack temps were on max output/burn rate on the princesses when you were testing them?  I'd love to have that reference point!


----------



## Dieselhead

Big storm a ‘brewin, stoves at capacity folks..


----------



## RockyMtMan

I have a Ashford that I got new in October.  I have been burn 24/7 pretty much ever since, so I have around 2500hrs on the combustor .  I went through the over active combustor for about a month then it started tapering off.  Here recently the combustor has really tapered off.  It's not glowing like it did and I have a little more smoke than I think I should, but it still is working as it hold in active region at the 3 o'clock position on the thermostat. 

 I did notice that one time when I emptied out the ash I noticed some ash build up so did a very very lite brushing of the combustor and it seemed to work better for awhile.

Is it possible or likely that my issue is ash build up?  Should I be brushing the combustor or blowing it out every so often.  I don't want to over do it and damage the cat.  

On other side note.  I do a lot of hot reloads where the cat probe is between the 10 and 12 o'clock position so that the stove will have enough fuel to make it through a day or night and keep the house warm.  There is only hot coals when I do this.  Can I be damaging the combustor by doing this?  I  am always opening the bypass when reloading.


----------



## kennyp2339

RockyMtMan said:


> Is it possible or likely that my issue is ash build up? Should I be brushing the combustor or blowing it out every so often. I don't want to over do it and damage the cat.


Your going to want to take the smoke pipe off and vacuum behind the cat, the back of the combustor might have build up, if you dont to go through all of that you can take a compressor and lower it to 10psi and blow the face front to rear, do not remove the cat unless you have another gasket on hand and do not stick anything into the cat cells, the wash coat is fragile and will come off, as with anything over 10psi being blown directly onto it.


----------



## RockyMtMan

I have a stove vacuum that I was thinking about running in reverse to blow out the cat.  Would that be too much air?


----------



## kennyp2339

RockyMtMan said:


> I have a stove vacuum that I was thinking about running in reverse to blow out the cat.  Would that be too much air?


Im not sure, psi and volume can damage the wash coat, I have a 5gal pancake compressor with 1/4 hose and a nozzle that I use, I also can adjust the output of the compressor and always have the air flowing through the nozzle before bringing it up the cat.
I might be better just to take the smoke pipe off and shine a cell phone camera in the back to see whats going on first.


----------



## Highbeam

RockyMtMan said:


> I have a stove vacuum that I was thinking about running in reverse to blow out the cat.  Would that be too much air?



Vacuum would work great and you can put it right on the face of the cat but don't physically damage the face by rubbing it. Suck and blow the ash out of the cells. You probably have ash cloggage which is pretty common with the fine steel cats on all brands. It's even possible on ceramic cats but less so. Another tool is that canned air used for cleaning computer keyboards, it is allegedly a safe pressure and flow for the catalyst.



RockyMtMan said:


> Here recently the combustor has really tapered off. It's not glowing like it did and I have a little more smoke than I think I should, but it still is working as it hold in active region at the 3 o'clock position on the thermostat.



That is not the best test to validate cat function. A clue at best.  The smoke up top is far more valuable for troubleshooting but your cat is relatively new so we shouldn't expect it to be dead just yet. Cloggage or partial cloggage is much more likely.

What exactly is the problem? The cat doesn't need to glow to be working properly. The visible smoke can be a problem but I have found that I get something visible from my stack quite often as the thermostat opens and shuts to regulate burn rate. Are you watching the cat meter too closely? As long as that meter is above the active line you can ignore it.


----------



## RockyMtMan

I think you guys have answered my question.  Sounds like I have cat that is getting somewhat clogged and just need to clean it, hopefully without damaging it.  Thanks for the quick response.


----------



## stoveliker

Let us know what you see when you open up, and how it burns after doing that.


----------



## RockyMtMan

Highbeam said:


> The cat doesn't need to glow to be working properly. The visible smoke can be a problem but I have found that I get something visible from my stack quite often as the thermostat opens and shuts to regulate burn rate.



I was wondering about the cat if it needs to glow or not to be working.  I just figured it did and when it wasn't glowing it wasn't working as well.  Thanks for the info.  I probably am looking at the gauge too much.  I work in the engineering field so like to understand how things work.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> Another tool is that canned air used for cleaning computer keyboards, it is allegedly a safe pressure and flow for the catalyst.


Just make sure to give it a bit of time to dissipate before lighting a flame near the stove. This "canned air" isn't actually canned air, but rather a mix of hydrocarbons, mostly propane and butane. Like in a lighter. Meaning it will combust spectacularly in your stove or flue if it happens to be the right fuel/air mixture. But leaving the door open with the bypass closed for a few minutes should do it.


----------



## Highbeam

Tron said:


> Just make sure to give it a bit of time to dissipate before lighting a flame near the stove. This "canned air" isn't actually canned air, but rather a mix of hydrocarbons, mostly propane and butane. Like in a lighter. Meaning it will combust spectacularly in your stove or flue if it happens to be the right fuel/air mixture. But leaving the door open with the bypass closed for a few minutes should do it.



That might actually make me want to buy a can! I was under the impression it was Co2 but I own some bottled Co2 and the vessel is quite stout. It does feel like a liquid in the can and the lower pressure LPG makes sense. Seems risky that they would sell this canned fossil fuel for cleaning computers. 

Good warning.


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> That might actually make me want to buy a can! I was under the impression it was Co2 but I own some bottled Co2 and the vessel is quite stout. It does feel like a liquid in the can and the lower pressure LPG makes sense. Seems risky that they would sell this canned fossil fuel for cleaning computers.
> 
> Good warning.


OMG I was thinking the same thing, buy a can to test it out lol


----------



## stoveliker

me too 

bunch of fire addicts here ...


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> That might actually make me want to buy a can! I was under the impression it was Co2 but I own some bottled Co2 and the vessel is quite stout. It does feel like a liquid in the can and the lower pressure LPG makes sense. Seems risky that they would sell this canned fossil fuel for cleaning computers.


Try it out if you want. Works well with hair spray, too, for killing spiders, for instance. Household flamethrower.
And yes, it is liquid in the can. As is a CO2 capsule.

At ambient temperature, CO2 is in an equilibrium with its liquid state at a pressure of about 60 bar. That's way more than the pressure of propane/butane of 2-8 bar, depending on composition. So it's not surprising your CO2 capsules have a significantly stronger wall.

They used to use fluoro-chloro-hydrocarbons as propellant gases back in the 70's and 80's, but as those turned out to be a ozone killer the industry switched to basic hydrocarbons.


----------



## RockyMtMan

This place is great.  I get to learn how to heat my house and now how to blow it up, awesome👍


----------



## Shil1488

Any concerns from running this hot?  I probably get to this temp for a couple hours in the morning and then run at the top of the “active” zone for the rest of the day.


----------



## stoveliker

If this is a new cat, then no. This happens with new cats. They are hyper active. In a few weeks it'll settle down to "adult behavior" rather than "sugared up kid behavior"...


----------



## MissMac

RockyMtMan said:


> I have a Ashford that I got new in October.  I have been burn 24/7 pretty much ever since, so I have around 2500hrs on the combustor .  I went through the over active combustor for about a month then it started tapering off.  Here recently the combustor has really tapered off.  It's not glowing like it did and I have a little more smoke than I think I should, but it still is working as it hold in active region at the 3 o'clock position on the thermostat.
> 
> I did notice that one time when I emptied out the ash I noticed some ash build up so did a very very lite brushing of the combustor and it seemed to work better for awhile.
> 
> Is it possible or likely that my issue is ash build up?  Should I be brushing the combustor or blowing it out every so often.  I don't want to over do it and damage the cat.
> 
> On other side note.  I do a lot of hot reloads where the cat probe is between the 10 and 12 o'clock position so that the stove will have enough fuel to make it through a day or night and keep the house warm.  There is only hot coals when I do this.  Can I be damaging the combustor by doing this?  I  am always opening the bypass when reloading.


I have found that I have to vacuum the face of my cat about 4 times per winter.  I let the stove go totally cold, and then just use my household vacuum (as it's very little ash that i'm sucking up).  I put the little bristle attachment on and move it gently over the surface of the cat - night and day results after I do this.  The last year of my old cat - so let's say towards the end of it's useful (to me) life, I found that it was more clogged, and that simply vacuuming was no longer really tuning it up so well.  Compressed air helped at this point, but what really helped was getting a new catalyst (for a number of reasons, and you're clearly not at that point with your new cat).

The other thing worth mentioning is that if you're burning small splits, in my experience you'll have some smoke during the cycle.  Overwhelms the cat.  Right now I'm working through a bunch of ugly, way to small splits of balsam fir, poplar and birch.  And i'm smoking for hours, regardless of what setting i adjust to.  Just too much surface area on fire at one time, and the cat cant' keep up.  Just something else to consider.

Happy burning!


----------



## shoot-straight

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


Had a non-cat hearthstone for 8 years. Now a bk ashford.  Night and day difference in many ways. Firebox of ashford is a bit bigger.  Burns are longer, more consistent temp and more efficient. The peaks and valleys of the non cat were the issue with me. Lots of heat for like 4 hours then 4 hours of so so- lots of coals if pushing it hard. I'd love to try a princess and see what it does here. Don't like the looks though. 

No stove is perfect for Everyone or more importantly every house. Some just work better in some situations than others. And not just the house but the install can change things.


----------



## Highbeam

MissMac said:


> I have found that I have to vacuum the face of my cat about 4 times per winter.  I let the stove go totally cold, and then just use my household vacuum (as it's very little ash that i'm sucking up).  I put the little bristle attachment on and move it gently over the surface of the cat - night and day results after I do this.  The last year of my old cat - so let's say towards the end of it's useful (to me) life, I found that it was more clogged, and that simply vacuuming was no longer really tuning it up so well.  Compressed air helped at this point, but what really helped was getting a new catalyst (for a number of reasons, and you're clearly not at that point with your new cat).
> 
> The other thing worth mentioning is that if you're burning small splits, in my experience you'll have some smoke during the cycle.  Overwhelms the cat.  Right now I'm working through a bunch of ugly, way to small splits of balsam fir, poplar and birch.  And i'm smoking for hours, regardless of what setting i adjust to.  Just too much surface area on fire at one time, and the cat cant' keep up.  Just something else to consider.
> 
> Happy burning!


Great post missmac.


----------



## Highbeam

shoot-straight said:


> Had a non-cat hearthstone for 8 years. Now a bk ashford.  Night and day difference in many ways. Firebox of ashford is a bit bigger.  Burns are longer, more consistent temp and more efficient. The peaks and valleys of the non cat were the issue with me. Lots of heat for like 4 hours then 4 hours of so so- lots of coals if pushing it hard. I'd love to try a princess and see what it does here. Don't like the looks though.
> 
> No stove is perfect for Everyone or more importantly every house. Some just work better in some situations than others. And not just the house but the install can change things.


I too moved from a noncat stone stove to a BK and don’t regret it a bit.


----------



## Tron

shoot-straight said:


> I'd love to try a princess and see what it does here. Don't like the looks though.


Same here, that's why I chose the Chinook. But I doubt that the differences between Chinook/Ashford and the Princess are really big. I heard that the ash belly is bigger on the Princess, but besides that the thermal parameters are the same.


----------



## Highbeam

That ash belly though, almost makes up for the aesthetics of the old princess. It’s so nice.


----------



## Tron

Highbeam said:


> That ash belly though, almost makes up for the aesthetics of the old princess. It’s so nice.


Degustibus non disputandum est.
Like the Romans used to say...


----------



## Ashful

bholler said:


> But would you say it is fair to say that the BTU output of blaze king stoves that are controlled by a thermostat are not as effected by load density and wood species as many others?  Of course burn time will be effected drastically but amount and density of fuel.
> 
> I have found in my experience heat output in the noncats I have used was controlled as much by wood species and how I loaded the stove as the air control.  But with the bk the heat output doesn't change much with those factors.  Just burn time


To some degree, yes, I think this is true.  The BK thermostat is not perfect, so I think there's still some variability in BTU output with wood species/density, but the variability is much less than a stove with a fixed air control.  I wouldn't think this is a cat/non-cat thing, though... more a thermostat vs. fixed air control thing.

Since I looked at and considered the Woodstocks, but ultimately decided their very radiant designs of the time were not practical in the big 53F stone box I call home, I always wonder about the installation space being considered any time a user has issues with their stove keeping up.  This interest becomes even more piqued when comparing a very convective stove to a very radiant stove, as I learned when switching from massive but radiant Jotul Firelights to the somewhat smaller but more convective Ashfords, and learning just how much of the heat I was radiating from those old stoves was being sucked up by a big mass of exterior stonework. So, @sprawlnstall, what is your construction and insulation in the room where the stove is installed?


----------



## Tron

Ashful said:


> To some degree, yes, I think this is true.  The BK thermostat is not perfect, so I think there's still some variability in BTU output with wood species/density, but the variability is much less than a stove with a fixed air control.


Additionally, there is some variability depending on the burn stage. When I'm left with coals, heat output drops nocticably, even though the previous set output can be reached again by turning it up. So technically the thermostat could keep the output up, but somehow doesn't.

Not a big deal, though.


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> I too moved from a noncat stone stove to a BK and don’t regret it a bit.


Highbeam, forgive me if my memory is inaccurate, it has been awhile.  But if I recall, were you not running a BK in the house and an Englander in the shop?


----------



## begreen

MissMac said:


> The other thing worth mentioning is that if you're burning small splits, in my experience you'll have some smoke during the cycle. Overwhelms the cat. Right now I'm working through a bunch of ugly, way to small splits of balsam fir, poplar and birch. And i'm smoking for hours, regardless of what setting i adjust to. Just too much surface area on fire at one time, and the cat cant' keep up. Just something else to consider.


I think more complete combustion is the reason why Woodstock went to a hybrid model and then others followed.


----------



## MissMac

begreen said:


> I think more complete combustion is the reason why Woodstock went to a hybrid model and then others followed.


I wonder if BK could do something like that in their stoves?  What would be the pros/cons?


----------



## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> Highbeam, forgive me if my memory is inaccurate, it has been awhile.  But if I recall, were you not running a BK in the house and an Englander in the shop?



That is my current setup. 2012 BK in the house with well over 30 cords through it providing 100% of our constant heat over a 9 month burn season. Then the 2013 NC30 noncat in the large insulated shop providing intermittent heat so run at high output, max efficient output with a custom blower and convection deck. That NC30 really should be a wood furnace.

Prior to the BK I ran a hearthstone heritage noncat for 6-7 years and about 30 cords. It performed well but took a lot of loading and effort to stay warm. Looked great but was quickly wearing out. 

Prior to that was a lopi freedom bay insert in a masonry fireplace that was removed. Inserts are horrible. Noisy blowers all the time, and the masonry had to go. 

Of course growing up we had lopi, orli, and a country stove too. All noncats but my best friend's family had a princess insert from the late 80s (mostly same as current)and he loved it.


----------



## Highbeam

MissMac said:


> I wonder if BK could do something like that in their stoves?  What would be the pros/cons?



They did at one time but went back to cat only.


----------



## begreen

MissMac said:


> I wonder if BK could do something like that in their stoves?  What would be the pros/cons?


That's a good question for Chris. My guess is R&D time vs ROI. Maybe he and Tom have shared a few brews discussing this.


----------



## ABMax24

begreen said:


> That's a good question for Chris. My guess is R&D time vs ROI. Maybe he and Tom have shared a few brews discussing this.



Why fix something that isn't broke. BK has every stove sold right now before it leaves the manufacturing facility. The product works and sells.

Makes sense to put your manpower toward making manufacturing more efficient and productive. BK isn't loosing sales because of the design, they are loosing sales because they can't get stoves in customers homes fast enough.

At the same time the test reports speak for themselves, the pure cat system works, it's just on startup (like all stoves) that it could use help. Maybe a secondary air setup that functions only when the bypass is open?


----------



## begreen

Yes, Woodstock was looking to expand production and sales from their stable of 3 stoves (Fireview, Palladian, and Keystone). They developed clean-burning hybrids in both soapstone and steel. Blaze King has a formula that works and expanded to making more visually appealing stoves with this formula and grew their insert market too. Both were expanding sales but with different marketing goals.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Ashful said:


> To some degree, yes, I think this is true.  The BK thermostat is not perfect, so I think there's still some variability in BTU output with wood species/density, but the variability is much less than a stove with a fixed air control.  I wouldn't think this is a cat/non-cat thing, though... more a thermostat vs. fixed air control thing.
> 
> Since I looked at and considered the Woodstocks, but ultimately decided their very radiant designs of the time were not practical in the big 53F stone box I call home, I always wonder about the installation space being considered any time a user has issues with their stove keeping up.  This interest becomes even more piqued when comparing a very convective stove to a very radiant stove, as I learned when switching from massive but radiant Jotul Firelights to the somewhat smaller but more convective Ashfords, and learning just how much of the heat I was radiating from those old stoves was being sucked up by a big mass of exterior stonework. So, @sprawlnstall, what is your construction and insulation in the room where the stove is instalI





Ashful said:


> I have a two story house, my stove is located on the ground level in a  large living room near the bottom of the stairs.  8 foot ceiling height.  I'm guessing 2x6 walls with R21? insulation.


----------



## Ashful

"I have a two story house, my stove is located on the ground level in a large living room near the bottom of the stairs. 8 foot ceiling height. I'm guessing 2x6 walls with R21? insulation." 

In that case, you shouldn't have the huge dependency on radiant vs. convective, that has plagued so many who are trying to heat masonry homes or heating from a basement.  The Woodstock IS may be a solution for you.

But remember, no stove is magic.  You're putting about 9000 Btu per pound of wood, perhaps ~1M Btu total, into a box and burning it down with efficiency averaging near 80% with some of the best stoves in the market (whether Woodstock IS or BK Princess).  All the stove is doing is controlling the rate of release, and the method (radiation vs. convection) by which that heat is moved from the stove into your living space.

There are many other factors to consider, such as ease of use, ease of maintenance, warranty and support, etc.  But when choosing between BK and Woodstock, you really can't go wrong, they're both excellent choices, by most accounts.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Ashful said:


> "I have a two story house, my stove is located on the ground level in a large living room near the bottom of the stairs. 8 foot ceiling height. I'm guessing 2x6 walls with R21? insulation."
> In that case, you shouldn't have the huge dependency on radiant vs. convective, that has plagued so many who are trying to heat masonry homes or heating from a basement.  The Woodstock IS may be a solution for you.
> 
> But remember, no stove is magic.  You're putting about 9000 Btu per pound of wood, perhaps ~1M Btu total, into a box and burning it down with efficiency averaging near 80% with some of the best stoves in the market (whether Woodstock IS or BK Princess).  All the stove is doing is controlling the rate of release, and the method (radiation vs. convection) by which that heat is moved from the stove into your living space.
> 
> There are many other factors to consider, such as ease of use, ease of maintenance, warranty and support, etc.  But when choosing between BK and Woodstock, you really can't go wrong, they're both excellent choices, by most accounts.


If i had to guess they would both probably work similar.  I need a replacement stove in my shop and will most likely get the big Drolet HT3000.  It may take some effort but I plan to try it in the house for a season to see if I like it.  The princess would make a fine shop stove if it works out.


----------



## Tron

Ashful said:


> You're putting about 9000 Btu per pound of wood, perhaps ~1M Btu total


At first I thought, wow, does one really get 111 lbs of wood into a 3 cu-ft space, but yes, given that dry oak is about 50lbs/cu-ft, that's probably realistic.


----------



## Ashful

Tron said:


> At first I thought, wow, does one really get 111 lbs of wood into a 3 cu-ft space, but yes, given that dry oak is about 50lbs/cu-ft, that's probably realistic.


Pretty close, but I actually erred in my memory of oak density, using the number for green.   My calculation was 63 lb/cu.ft on a Princess 32, at the cordwood packing density of 85/128 used by my state’s Dept of weights and measures.


----------



## kennyp2339

Round 5 or 6 of cold coming sometime during the night tonight, I didnt add any wood to the stove last night or this morning, scooped all the ashes out, got about 4 gallons worth, also lifted the smoke pipe and vacuumed behind the cat in case there was fly ash build up, made a new fire using 100% maple, cat is sitting proud at 1 o'clock for the past 6 hours, ready for the next wave of cold.


----------



## pjohnson

Temp probe Does anyone have a source of a 2 inch cat temp probe for a king.  Seems everyone out of stock


----------



## kennyp2339

I’ve been running the princess pretty hard during the last 2 cold snaps, outside temps below zero at times, did a full ash clean out and vacuumed behind the cat 2 days ago, today is a ice storm day, temp right at 30deg with freezing rain, this is a pleasant surprise and relief knowing I can take a second season cat, run it hot and it will still glow great


----------



## stoveliker

So, after a full month of 24/7 burning, I've had 2 days with a cold stove. Ran the soot eater through, brushed the cat (not much other than some "hoar frost" on the edges of the metal, see pic; no blockages), checked behind the cat (nothing much), took out the ashes.

Interestingly, the cat seems to sag out of its space a little. Pushed it back. Seal still looked ok.

The cold Kenny mentioned above is coming in now; it was 51 this morning, and decreasing fast now to 22 overnight. Tomorrow 28, and tomorrow night 14.

Restarted the stove. Lit the kindling at 11.32. At 11.40 "tried" the cat for 30 secs, and it started glowing at one side. The other not. And as the probe was still quite far in the inactive zone, I opened the bypass again. At  11.48 engaged the cat as the probe was at the border of the active zone. Cat started glowing within 10 seconds.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> So, after a full month of 24/7 burning, I've had 2 days with a cold stove. Ran the soot eater through, brushed the cat (not much other than some "hoar frost" on the edges of the metal, see pic; no blockages), checked behind the cat (nothing much), took out the ashes.
> 
> Interestingly, the cat seems to sag out of its space a little. Pushed it back. Seal still looked ok.
> 
> The cold Kenny mentioned above is coming in now; it was 51 this morning, and decreasing fast now to 22 overnight. Tomorrow 28, and tomorrow night 14.
> 
> Restarted the stove. Lit the kindling at 11.32. At 11.40 "tried" the cat for 30 secs, and it started glowing at one side. The other not. And as the probe was still quite far in the inactive zone, I opened the bypass again. At  11.48 engaged the cat as the probe was at the border of the active zone. Cat started glowing within 10 seconds.
> 
> 
> View attachment 291468


Just shove it back in. I’ve had them try to walk out before too. Usually only a little ways though.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> Just shove it back in. I’ve had them try to walk out before too. Usually only a little ways though.


That's what I did indeed, carefully looking what was happening with the gasket. All seems fine after that.
I think this walking may be related to the clanking of the bypass valve. 

Not a big deal.


----------



## shoot-straight

Yep. Was 60 this am, let stove go out, sooteater, ash clean out, brush cat- back in action as temps drop all day.


----------



## shoot-straight

Tron said:


> Same here, that's why I chose the Chinook. But I doubt that the differences between Chinook/Ashford and the Princess are really big. I heard that the ash belly is bigger on the Princess, but besides that the thermal parameters are the same.


The ashford win in every category regarding looks- but I think the princess wins in the usable heat sept. The cast iron covers on the ashford do "buffer" the heat so to speak.  

I'd love to try an ideal steel. I just don't like their looks .


----------



## Ashful

shoot-straight said:


> The ashford win in every category regarding looks- but I think the princess wins in the usable heat sept. The cast iron covers on the ashford do "buffer" the heat so to speak.
> 
> I'd love to try an ideal steel. I just don't like their looks .


Net efficiencies are pretty close, so for similar BTU loaded into each box and set to a similar burn time, they should be putting out the same heat.  But the Ashford will definitely have a lower perceived temperature from all sides but the glass, due to the convective jacket.  Same heat into the room, but less by radiation, so you don't feel the searing.

It's a good theory, anyway.  Wonder what BKVP has to say about it.


----------



## Dieselhead

stoveliker said:


> The cold Kenny mentioned above is coming in now


Kenny is my weatherman. What he posts I get 24hr later.👌🏻


----------



## Dieselhead

Nice calm before the storm cleanout this am. A couple uglies for the day shift to light this load off tonight. Stay warm y’all.


----------



## Dieselhead

My cleanout shovel. It’s a flat shovel I had with a busted handle that I welded some sides on. Not patent pending 👌🏻


----------



## OH_Varmntr

Called my BK dealer last week to order a Princess 29 and he said I'd be looking at May.  No worries.  Transfers me to another guy to get my info and he says he's expecting one any day now.  Calls me back the next morning and said guess what showed up?

So I went and picked up my new Princess 29 this morning.  Installed an insulated liner, the insert, and she is putting out a pretty little glow now.


----------



## Montanalocal

sprawlnstall said:


> Looking for input from anyone who has had a princess and a non-cat stove.  The princess is a great stove but just a little undersized for me, I'm often running it wide open or waking up to a 55 degree house.  I'm considering a PE Alderlea T6, Englander NC30, or Drolet HT300. I'm open to other options also.   Currently I can get a good 8 hour burn with the princess when the temps are around 0.  Once it dips below zero the stove struggles.   Can I expect something better from a non cat stove?  The princess will be missed in the shoulder season.


Hi

The bottom line seems to be you can not get enough heat out of your Princess to heat your house when it is cold.

I had a similar problem, and I found a way to fix that.

I started out with a Lopi Liberty replacing an old Earth Stove a few years ago.  It did heat my home, which is over 3,000 sq. ft., is a log  home, so no thick insulation, and a lot of big glass on two stories.

However, I simply could not put up with the Lopi.  The big firebox is a fib, as the air tubes intrude down into the firebox, and the door is very close to the bottom, so you can not build up much of any coal and ash base.  I was refilling it twice per night. I might add, I only have Ponderosa pine to burn, which is quite punky, and very uneven splits due to huge knots.

Anyway, I traded it in for a Blaze King KE40.  Vastly better in every which way.  Nice deep firebox that I can accumulate coals and ash, and get in over twice as much wood as the Lopi.  And the thermostat control is of course absolutely great.

However, there was one issue.  It would not heat my house.  I could not extract heat fast enough to replace the losses when cold.  The main reason was the very wimpy fan on the BK.  It puts out about one third the air volume of the Lopi.  

So I came up with the solution that now very adequately heats my house.  I added some external fans.  I have one that sits above the stove and blows directly down onto the top of the stove where the catalytic hot spot is.  Then I have two more fans directing the heat generated and taking it up the stairs to the upper floor where our living area is.

The key is removing the heat from the stove.  If it does not get removed fast enough, the thermostat will not tell the stove to generate heat fast enough.  The thermostat will only tell the stove to open up when it cools off, which it will not do if the stove and the air around it remain very warm.  This warm air right around the stove will not get into the rest of the house if it is not moved there by some means, and the wimpy fan on the BK is not up to the job.

Again, the key is to have a strong fan blowing directly on the stove.  This forces the stove to generate heat faster, and also distributes the heat to other parts of the house.  

I think that experimenting with a fan on your Princess will make you happy.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Very interesting, I’ll be trying this today.  I’m surprised to hear the fan on a princess and king is less than that of a lopi. My fan seems loud and does a good job heating the house up. A secondary fan should help.


----------



## Alpine1

Theoretically, it should  be easier to move cold air towards the stove rather than remove hot air around it. Cold air is denser (and heavier) and doesn’t tend to move up unlike hot air. In my old house, I had better results by pushing cold air outside the rooms I wanted to heat, rather than trying to force hot air in.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

Alpine1 said:


> Theoretically, it should  be easier to move cold air towards the stove rather than remove hot air around it. Cold air is denser (and heavier) and doesn’t tend to move up unlike hot air. In my old house, I had better results by pushing cold air outside the rooms I wanted to heat, rather than trying to force hot air in.


I've found that to be the case as well.  Our back 2 rooms where our stove sits would get 80-84f and blowing the hot air into the other rooms of the house didn't work well.

We simply placed the fans on the floor and pointed them towards the stove and the back 2 rooms dropped to mid 72-74f and the other rooms warmed up significantly.

I was surprised to say the least but it makes sense now.


----------



## spudman99

Simple question:

When I reload my Princess Insert, the thermostat is set on high.  After 10 min or so I turn the stat from its noon high setting to around 3pm (6pm is fully closed). Nothing really happens to the intensity of the fire or flame show (fan is on high) even after 10 more minutes.  At this point the combuster gauge is at 5pm and the top of the insert reads 600deg.  If I bump the stat to say 4pm, I hear the flapper click close and the fire dies down immediately.  It will then cruise for several hours in this state.

Do I have a sticky flapper?  I did lube it at the beginning of the season, this is my 3rd year.  No operational issues with the stove, just a question about operation.  Should the stat and hence the flapper be more responsive in the 12-3pm range?


----------



## OH_Varmntr

spudman99 said:


> Simple question:
> 
> When I reload my Princess Insert, the thermostat is set on high.  After 10 min or so I turn the stat from its noon high setting to around 3pm (6pm is fully closed). Nothing really happens to the intensity of the fire or flame show (fan is on high) even after 10 more minutes.  At this point the combuster gauge is at 5pm and the top of the insert reads 600deg.  If I bump the stat to say 4pm, I hear the flapper click close and the fire dies down immediately.  It will then cruise for several hours in this state.
> 
> Do I have a sticky flapper?  I did lube it at the beginning of the season, this is my 3rd year.  No operational issues with the stove, just a question about operation.  Should the stat and hence the flapper be more responsive in the 12-3pm range?


That's the nature of a thermostatically controlled damper.  With it set at 3pm, the thermostat is still calling for heat, which is why you haven't heard it close the damper.  When moved to the 4pm position it satisfies the thermostat and closes the damper.  Given more time, it will close the damper at the 3pm position as well.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

The first couple of burns in my new Princess insert have been outstanding.  I was skeptical at first because everyone likes to inflate burn times and such.

Temps have been in the low teens during the day down to single digits during the nights with humidity in the 60-70% range.  Yesterday morning I loaded the insert at 0745 and reloaded it at 2210 last night (14 hours 25 minutes).  The thermostat was set at the position as indicated by the manual being the tested low burn position.  The combustor gauge was within the first third of the active zone and the fresh load lit right off.

My wife was skeptical when I told her we'd be able to burn 12+ hours on a load but now she believes me.  😄


----------



## stoveliker

OH_Varmntr said:


> That's the nature of a thermostatically controlled damper.  With it set at 3pm, the thermostat is still calling for heat, which is why you haven't heard it close the damper.  When moved to the 4pm position it satisfies the thermostat and closes the damper.  Given more time, it will close the damper at the 3pm position as well.



Unless your thermostat is the reverse of mine, I think your directions are incorrect.

Moving from 3 to 4 o'clock on my Tstat (with swoosh minimum at 1 and max at 6) opens it up more.

I do think something is amiss with the Tstat of @spudman99


----------



## OH_Varmntr

stoveliker said:


> Unless your thermostat is the reverse of mine, I think your directions are incorrect.
> 
> Moving from 3 to 4 o'clock on my Tstat (with swoosh minimum at 1 and max at 6) opens it up more.
> 
> I do think something is amiss with the Tstat of @spudman99



Princess 29 insert.


----------



## stoveliker

That is the reverse of mine


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> That is the reverse of mine


Yeah, the princess inserts are backwards. They use a funky chain setup too and are in front. Just a different mechanism to do the same thing.


----------



## stoveliker

Depends on your frame of reference. Maybe mine is backwards 🤔


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Depends on your frame of reference. Maybe mine is backwards 🤔


How very woke of you. LOL


----------



## CreoSophist

bholler said:


> But would you say it is fair to say that the BTU output of blaze king stoves that are controlled by a thermostat are not as effected by load density and wood species as many others?  Of course burn time will be effected drastically but ammout and density of fuel.
> 
> I have found in my experience heat output in the noncats I have used was controlled as much by wood species and how I loaded the stove as the air control.  But with the bk the heat output doesn't change much with those factors.  Just burn time


Our non cat Lopi insert puts out more heat with the air choked down that it does wide open.  You basically control the heat output by how much wood you load, and use the air control to fine tune for an efficient burn, so I would agree with your experience.

I shut it down until the yellow flame disappears and it's running fully on secondary burn, with the primary air only feeding the coals.  Increasing the air setting beyond this point cools the stove off.


----------



## stoveliker

My cat has been this toasty for 3.5 hrs now. I still find the secondary flames in front of the cat funny to look at (for 3 secs before my face starts overheating...).

Edit: I have a thermocouple mounted in the middle of the convection vent on the top front of the stove. It reads 650 F...


----------



## Campcook

I am the proud owner of a new-to-me Blaze King Princess. This is my first time using a Cat stove and I'm figuring it out, but boy what a learning curve. My first fire I was just experimenting with a few logs. The cat probe got into the active zone and I shut it down but the cat never glowed and the stove didn't really get up to temp. I also turned the blower on and the stove didn't like that. The probe dropped out of the active zone and things seemed to be cooling down. The fire was out in about 3 hours. A little disappointing but not a huge deal. 

The second fire, I really loaded it up and got things running quickly. I closed the bypass as soon as the probe read active but the stove soon got to 900 degree stove top temp and got that over-fired-stove smell. I backed things off (and got the fire extinguisher ready) and the temp settled down to about 600. I dropped the tstat down to about 2 and got a 12 hour burn. Much better than the last time, but still not as long as I'm looking for from this legendary long burner. 

This morning, I loaded things up again, got the fire going, closed the bypass and then dropped the tstat much sooner than I did last night. The stove is running well with the tstat at 2 but the flames were a little to active for what I would think would get me that long burn.  I know a lot of people on this forum run their BKs at 1.5 so I tried that. I got some reburn flames on the roof of the firebox for a while but those went out and now I just have white logs. No fire, no coals, nothing. 

My question is, am I doing something wrong? The cat is glowing bright red and the probe is well into the active zone (about half) but falling. The tstat is set to about 1.75. If I jump it up to 2 I'll get some flames back but the stove has only been running for about 4 hours and I've already burned half the wood in the firebox. 

The blower is on. I've never had a stove with a blower before - do stoves not really like them? 

General info: 
-BK Princess circa 2012. Dollar test shows the door gasket is good
-Wood is a mix of hardwoods and around 20%, though I admit some of the wood is a little higher and there's a hissing when these pieces make their way into the stove
-Insulated liner running up through an old chimney three stories tall, maybe 30'? That's just a guess. The stove drafts well, as did the one I swapped out for the BK. 
-The Tstat nob is a little funky. It will rotate almost 180* past the lowest setting before it finally stops. Not sure if this is normal or might need attention. 
-The previous owner installed a new steel Cat last year. Visual inspection shows no plugs and it looks pretty good. 

Any advice from all you BK masters would be very much appreciated!


----------



## shoot-straight

Its been discussed many times on here. Running the fans consumes your wood faster. Its because the air from the fan cools the stat- making it "think" its cooler than it is. So it opens up, lets more air in, and you see flames. 

The rate at which this happens depends on fan speed and other variables. If the fan is on high on my ashford, my burn time is significantly reduced off what it would be without (at the same setting with same wood). But its shedding more BTUs into the house in the process. So its not lost heat.


----------



## jetsam

First off, 900 stovetop should not be possible with the door closed. Most likely culprit is gaskets.  Give it (another) good dollar bill test all the way around. If that's good, lay the door flat on something soft and try to slide the glass around in the door with the palms of your hands.  If you can move it at all, that  gasket needs replacement also.    If there are no air leaks at all, you're looking at either really crazy high draft (needs a damper) or a thermostat issue (reach out to BK for troubleshooting assistance).     With a 30' stack, I'd be getting a manometer asap to put the draft in spec even if I did find an issue in the gaskets or the thermostat.


----------



## jetsam

My condolences on getting your thread moderated into this thread with all the chatter, though. You could try making a new one without "BK" in the title. That seems to trigger them.


----------



## Highbeam

Campcook said:


> I am the proud owner of a new-to-me Blaze King Princess. This is my first time using a Cat stove and I'm figuring it out, but boy what a learning curve. My first fire I was just experimenting with a few logs. The cat probe got into the active zone and I shut it down but the cat never glowed and the stove didn't really get up to temp. I also turned the blower on and the stove didn't like that. The probe dropped out of the active zone and things seemed to be cooling down. The fire was out in about 3 hours. A little disappointing but not a huge deal.
> 
> The second fire, I really loaded it up and got things running quickly. I closed the bypass as soon as the probe read active but the stove soon got to 900 degree stove top temp and got that over-fired-stove smell. I backed things off (and got the fire extinguisher ready) and the temp settled down to about 600. I dropped the tstat down to about 2 and got a 12 hour burn. Much better than the last time, but still not as long as I'm looking for from this legendary long burner.
> 
> This morning, I loaded things up again, got the fire going, closed the bypass and then dropped the tstat much sooner than I did last night. The stove is running well with the tstat at 2 but the flames were a little to active for what I would think would get me that long burn.  I know a lot of people on this forum run their BKs at 1.5 so I tried that. I got some reburn flames on the roof of the firebox for a while but those went out and now I just have white logs. No fire, no coals, nothing.
> 
> My question is, am I doing something wrong? The cat is glowing bright red and the probe is well into the active zone (about half) but falling. The tstat is set to about 1.75. If I jump it up to 2 I'll get some flames back but the stove has only been running for about 4 hours and I've already burned half the wood in the firebox.
> 
> The blower is on. I've never had a stove with a blower before - do stoves not really like them?
> 
> General info:
> -BK Princess circa 2012. Dollar test shows the door gasket is good
> -Wood is a mix of hardwoods and around 20%, though I admit some of the wood is a little higher and there's a hissing when these pieces make their way into the stove
> -Insulated liner running up through an old chimney three stories tall, maybe 30'? That's just a guess. The stove drafts well, as did the one I swapped out for the BK.
> -The Tstat nob is a little funky. It will rotate almost 180* past the lowest setting before it finally stops. Not sure if this is normal or might need attention.
> -The previous owner installed a new steel Cat last year. Visual inspection shows no plugs and it looks pretty good.
> 
> Any advice from all you BK masters would be very much appreciated!



First thing first, your install is not correct until you control the draft to meet the BK requirements. 30 feet of stack is too much without some sort of damper. Once you have the draft under control and provide properly seasoned wood you can start benefiting from comparing notes here about operation. Getting the long burn times requires at least a reasonably compliant setup and fuel.

Stop measuring stove top temperature. It is irrelevant and very easy to misread since just under the stove top is a ripping hot 1500 degree catalyst. So of course there will be a spot that is also ripping hot above it even when the stove is only making  a little heat. It's much more valuable to measure flue temperature.

Fill the stove, get it going and cat meter above active, close the bypass, then after 10-20 minutes adjust the thermostat down to your desired output level. The only thing to worry about is making sure that you don't stall the cat by adjusting the thermostat too low. This will cause the cat meter to fall to inactive. Properly installed, fueled, and maintained, you can't overfire it.

If your princess is from 2012 then you have numbers on your thermostat dial. Be glad. Mine is from 2012 as well.

A glowing cat is not required for proper operation. It will come and go. Flames are also not necessary and when going for long burns at low burn rates you can expect to see no flames.


----------



## panderson03

sprawlnstall said:


> I can get a 12 hour burn the problem is the house will be 50 degrees.  Coaling is a big issue a stove full stove of coals won’t produce enough heat.


Hey there. We're in MN too (Ottertail county). we have a 35'x35' 3 level home. The only time our Princess struggles is when we've been away for several days and return to a cold cabin. takes 18 hours or so for the place to get comfy. No trouble maintaining a warm cabin though.


----------



## Tron

panderson03 said:


> MN too (Ottertail county).





panderson03 said:


> return to a cold cabin.


So I guess a "cold cabin" can be at sub-freezing temperatures? Not really surprising that it takes a while to warm up from that...


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Does anyone know offhand the draft requirements for the Princess? I could have sworn I saw it in the manual, but can't find it now. Going to install a Dwyer this weekend, so wanted to know what I should be looking for.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

TheElementalCashew said:


> Does anyone know offhand the draft requirements for the Princess? I could have sworn I saw it in the manual, but can't find it now. Going to install a Dwyer this weekend, so wanted to know what I should be looking for.


I have the Princess Insert, model number PI29, and the manual states not to exceed .06" WC in the "Catalyst Monitoring" section on page 28.


----------



## logfarmer

Late to the game of filling the king up!


----------



## jetsam

The PE1006 manual (which might be yours?) does repeatedly say to measure the draft with manometer, but it then says to refer to a manual section that doesn't exist for the spec.   I looked at every section that has the word "draft" and "manometer".   The phrases "WC" and "psig" both do not occur in the document.     https://www.blazeking.com/manuals-and-brochures   I  think I've heard .06WC a lot though!          TL;DR:  The manometer going to tell you that you need a damper unless you live at 10000 feet above sea level.


----------



## logfarmer

logfarmer said:


> Late to the game of filling the king up!
> 
> View attachment 291906
> View attachment 291907


Also this is after a 24 hr burn with fan on low stat set at 1-3/4 temps outside are single digits to high teens. The coals are at the bottom of the door so this is a half load.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

OH_Varmntr said:


> I have the Princess Insert, model number PI29, and the manual states not to exceed .06" WC in the "Catalyst Monitoring" section on page 28.



Thanks! Mine isn't an insert, but I imagine it should have similar requirements.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

jetsam said:


> The PE1006 manual (which might be yours?) does repeatedly say to measure the draft with manometer, but it then says to refer to a manual section that doesn't exist for the spec.   I looked at every section that has the word "draft" and "manometer".   The phrases "WC" and "psig" both do not occur in the document.     https://www.blazeking.com/manuals-and-brochures   I  think I've heard .06WC a lot though!          TL;DR:  The manometer going to tell you that you need a damper unless you live at 10000 feet above sea level.



I have the PE32 manual, which also repeatedly references a manometer and a seemingly nonexistent document section, without providing any details as to the draft spec (at least that I can find). Thanks for the info!


----------



## stoveliker

logfarmer said:


> Late to the game of filling the king up!
> 
> View attachment 291906
> View attachment 291907


nice locust (?), and a small split of oak?
Still waiting two more summers before I will be burning a little of that. Looking forward to it.
Lotsa coals (or, because of the locust...).


----------



## jdonna

Replaced my door gasket last nite and checked out the door handle, knocked out the roll pin and there is a lot of slop in the bronze bushing.  Put some antiseize in there for now.  Checked the price on a new one and I’m just going to machine a new bushing in the off-season!  Maybe it’s normal, never paid that close of attention to it before, but it seemed to be cocked at a good angle when the door was closed.


----------



## logfarmer

stoveliker said:


> nice locust (?), and a small split of oak?
> Still waiting two more summers before I will be burning a little of that. Looking forward to it.
> Lotsa coals (or, because of the locust...).


Yes most is locust, I’ve been mixing a couple pieces of white oak in been drying for 2 yrs and is right out 20% MC. That pic was at 25 hrs I believe and could have went a few more hrs but it was bedtime lol!


----------



## elmo_4_vt

I got a bunch of soot up on top that I hear coming down the chimney every so often and want to make sure it's clear up on top of the fire box.  What's everyone's best method for getting soot off of the top of the stove near the bypass?  Do you need to remove the chimney and go in from the top or can you go in from the bypass or pull the Cat and go in from there?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## kennyp2339

elmo_4_vt said:


> I got a bunch of soot up on top that I hear coming down the chimney every so often and want to make sure it's clear up on top of the fire box.  What's everyone's best method for getting soot off of the top of the stove near the bypass?  Do you need to remove the chimney and go in from the top or can you go in from the bypass or pull the Cat and go in from there?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


I have a telescoping piece of black pipe so I just lift it up and carefully take my shopvac hose and clean out the upper chamber, only pull the cat if you have another gasket on hand. 
Its going to warm up our way tomorrow & Sat, might be worth doing a mid-season sweep if you can, if I have snow on my roof I just clean from the bottom up, start my brush then tape a garbage bag to the support box and make a small hole in the side of the garbage bag and add cleaning rods from there, keeps then mess way down as it falls in the bag.


----------



## stoveliker

I would pull the stove pipe off the top of the stove (hope you have a telescoping section there). Then you have access through the "hole" there, which is the most convenient.

Then, given creosote falling, I'd run a soot eater up the flue (with a bag taped to the flue so you don't make everything dusty) to clean farther up as well. And use binoculars to look at your chimney cap (if you can't get there yourself).


----------



## stoveliker

well d*mn. Kenny has again faster fingers than I have


----------



## Highbeam

TheElementalCashew said:


> I have the PE32 manual, which also repeatedly references a manometer and a seemingly nonexistent document section, without providing any details as to the draft spec (at least that I can find). Thanks for the info!



The BK manuals have always included lots of information but always seem disconnected and maybe written by like 10 people and thrown together at the end without anybody reading the whole thing. I’ve found contradictory statements and missing information like the draft spec example. Plus repetitive information.


----------



## Ashful

TheElementalCashew said:


> Does anyone know offhand the draft requirements for the Princess? I could have sworn I saw it in the manual, but can't find it now. Going to install a Dwyer this weekend, so wanted to know what I should be looking for.


The Ashford 30 spec's .06" WC maximum, and .05" WC ideal.  I've seen similar numbers for other cat stoves, so while I can't speak with authority about the Princess, I'd be surprised if it's much different.  Start aiming for .05" WC, until you hear otherwise.



elmo_4_vt said:


> I got a bunch of soot up on top that I hear coming down the chimney every so often and want to make sure it's clear up on top of the fire box.  What's everyone's best method for getting soot off of the top of the stove near the bypass?  Do you need to remove the chimney and go in from the top or can you go in from the bypass or pull the Cat and go in from there?


I do the opposite of kenny.  I also have a telescoping pipe above the stove, but I think they're more of a PITA to work with than they're worth, once installed and used.  I always keep a roll of cat gasket on hand (I buy 20 feet at a time), and just pull the cat to clean out the chamber above the bypass door.  In my opinion, this is much easier and less prone to causing problems, than fighting any telescoping stove pipe section.  YMMV.



Highbeam said:


> The BK manuals have always included lots of information but always seem disconnected and maybe written by like 10 people and thrown together at the end without anybody reading the whole thing. I’ve found contradictory statements and missing information like the draft spec example. Plus repetitive information.


True, but I'd not beat up BK too badly on this point, I've noticed it's a common problem across most of the industry.  I wonder if they even have a dedicated technical writer, this sort of work is often passed off to the least senior technician in the product engineering group, in many companies.  The job is often put upon Engineering, but it should really be considered  a Marketing expense, as that user manual is often the primary interface between the customer and the company.


----------



## showrguy

@Ashful,
where are you getting that CAT gasket from ?


----------



## Ashful

showrguy said:


> @Ashful,
> where are you getting that CAT gasket from ?


I always bought it from Woodmans Parts Plus, but I just checked their site, and it appears their price has gone up at least 2x in the last year or two, so it might be worth shopping for another source.  I believe I paid something like $2.25-$2.75/ft, the last few times.

You need 30 inches of 2" x 1/16" to wrap the cat in an Ashford 30.





__





						Replacement stove parts | Woodman's Parts Plus | Stove Gas Wood Stove Parts
					

Woodman's Parts Plus offers over 20,000 in stock parts for your wood, coal, gas, oil or pellet unit, as well as barbecues and outdoor power equipment. Over 400 old and current manufacturers, with unique parts and patterns.




					www.woodmanspartsplus.com


----------



## ajzzara

Hello All,
I recently had  a BK Sirocco insert installed. I have a question regarding the thermostat which seems to have a lot of unnecessary play. Is it supposed to go from 6 o’clock position (wide open) almost all the way around back to 6 o’clock? I do believe I hear the thermostat shut around  the 1 o’clock position (where the smaller side of the swoosh is) . For reference, the thermostat is mounted on the left of the unit, and would turn counter clockwise from high to low. I have attached a video as well. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Highbeam

ajzzara said:


> Hello All,
> I recently had  a BK Sirocco insert installed. I have a question regarding the thermostat which seems to have a lot of unnecessary play. Is it supposed to go from 6 o’clock position (wide open) almost all the way around back to 6 o’clock? I do believe I hear the thermostat shut around  the 1 o’clock position (where the smaller side of the swoosh is) . For reference, the thermostat is mounted on the left of the unit, and would turn counter clockwise from high to low. I have attached a video as well. Thanks for the help!



I don’t have the insert but my BK princess thermostat works the same. Almost a full turn is possible. The inserts are kind of funky so maybe another insert owner will chime in.


----------



## kennyp2339

ajzzara said:


> I recently had a BK Sirocco insert installed. I have a question regarding the thermostat which seems to have a lot of unnecessary play. Is it supposed to go from 6 o’clock position (wide open) almost all the way around back to 6 o’clock? I do believe I hear the thermostat shut around the 1 o’clock position (where the smaller side of the swoosh is)


Thats about were my princess free standing stove closes, between noon and 1 o'clock, my sweet spot for burning is around 3 o'clock.


----------



## elmo_4_vt

I was told earlier in this thread by BKVP that the additional play between the 1:00 position, counterclockwise to the 5:00 position does not effect the actual damper.  The actual damper movement is from the 1:00 position on low, clockwise to the 6:00 position on high.  This was for a free-standing Chinook, but I believe all of the stoves in this series have the same damper mechanism.  Good luck with the stove, they are an awesome addition to the home heating line up.

Don

-


----------



## elmo_4_vt

First time cleaning the stove and chimney myself and wanted to give an update for people.

Used a Sooteater knockoff off from Amazon, a painters blanket and some magnetic tool holders from Harbor Freight.

I cut 3' off of the painters blanket and used that to block the main stove front opening.  Held up the blanket on 4 sides with the tool magnet bars, and the just crimped up at the bottom to fit the brush sticks in.  Had my shop vac with a Hepa filter shoved into the bottom corner and just started working from the bottom up with the extensions, then spinning with the drill on the way back down.  This is the same thing that the professional sweep did for me in December when I first got everything installed and wanted professional inspection.  Everything went pretty quick.  I had about half a gallon of soot on the bottom of the stove, and I was able to stick my hand up into the top of the stove and pull out another 1/4 gallon of debris off the top deck.  I follow up with the shop-vac and a few smaller flexible attachments to get everything cleaned up top and around the sides of the stove.  At the end, I used a mirror and light to take a look at things and it seemed pretty clean.

 I restarted the fire and am taking advantage of the mid 30's day here to burn things a little hot for the first load and get anything left over.

Thanks for the help and suggestions on the last page.  If you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Don

-


----------



## ratsrepus

elmo_4_vt said:


> First time cleaning the stove and chimney myself and wanted to give an update for people.
> 
> Used a Sooteater knockoff off from Amazon, a painters blanket and some magnetic tool holders from Harbor Freight.
> 
> I cut 3' off of the painters blanket and used that to block the main stove front opening.  Held up the blanket on 4 sides with the tool magnet bars, and the just crimped up at the bottom to fit the brush sticks in.  Had my shop vac with a Hepa filter shoved into the bottom corner and just worked from the top down.  This is the same thing that the professional sweep did for me in December when I first got everything installed and wanted professional inspection.  Everything went pretty quick.  I had about half a gallon of soot on the bottom of the stove, and I was able to stick my hand up into the top of the stove and pull out another 1/4 gallon of debris off the top deck.  I follow up with the shop-vac and a few smaller flexible attachments to get everything cleaned up top and around the sides of the stove.  At the end, I used a mirror and light to take a look at things and it seemed pretty clean.
> 
> I restarted the fire and am taking advantage of the mid 30's day here to burn things a little hot for the first load and get anything left over.
> 
> Thanks for the help and suggestions on the last page.
> 
> Don
> 
> -


did it really need it?  I doubt it.  I go once a year and I have maybe a  half of coffee can out of my chimney  22 ft


----------



## elmo_4_vt

ratsrepus said:


> did it really need it?  I doubt it.  I go once a year and I have maybe a  half of coffee can out of my chimney  22 ft



Yeah, I had a bunch of soot fall last week and I could feel it on top of the box when I was trying to close the bypass.  I didn't want to go long without cleaning that off.  So that was main driver.  The pipe was just to try and get as much as I could while I was playing with the shop vac and Hepa filter.

My main issue is that I have a lot of wood that isn't as dry as it should be.  The Oak I'm burning now is at 23%-25%, but it's all I have left.  I can definitely tell a difference over the maple/birch I was using through January that was sub 20%.

Other than that, it's really just being extra cautious.  It's my first stand-alone stove that I've installed.   

-


----------



## Highbeam

elmo_4_vt said:


> Yeah, I had a bunch of soot fall last week and I could feel it on top of the box when I was trying to close the bypass.  I didn't want to go long without cleaning that off.  So that was main driver.  The pipe was just to try and get as much as I could while I was playing with the shop vac and Hepa filter.
> 
> My main issue is that I have a lot of wood that isn't as dry as it should be.  The Oak I'm burning now is at 23%-25%, but it's all I have left.  I can definitely tell a difference over the maple/birch I was using through January that was sub 20%.
> 
> Other than that, it's really just being extra cautious.  It's my first stand-alone stove that I've installed.
> 
> -


You should be able to shove that sooteater up from the bottom to avoid getting on the roof. On my freestander the draft is enough to keep all debris in the stove with no vacuum running or other antics. 

It is possible to suck all the debris out of the cat chamber from below but is easier to pop the pipe off to get it all. Also, this is an opportunity to lube and adjust the bypass mechanism. 

One final thought is that I wipe the bypass gasket every time I load if it’s cold enough. I don’t want that debris fouling the gasket or the seal. Sometimes I get a lot of chunks that have fallen from above.


----------



## elmo_4_vt

Highbeam said:


> You should be able to shove that sooteater up from the bottom to avoid getting on the roof. On my freestander the draft is enough to keep all debris in the stove with no vacuum running or other antics.
> 
> It is possible to suck all the debris out of the cat chamber from below but is easier to pop the pipe off to get it all. Also, this is an opportunity to lube and adjust the bypass mechanism.
> 
> One final thought is that I wipe the bypass gasket every time I load if it’s cold enough. I don’t want that debris fouling the gasket or the seal. Sometimes I get a lot of chunks that have fallen from above.



Yup - Did everything from the bottom.  Big plus since my chimney is about 8.5' above the shingles.

With respect to the lube - What do you use?  I didn't pull the pipe off because I was able to get everything with my hands and vaccum, but I'd like to do that next time.  What points do you lube?  The sliding area of the bar, or the hinge assembly, or both?

Thanks

Don

-


----------



## Highbeam

elmo_4_vt said:


> Yup - Did everything from the bottom.  Big plus since my chimney is about 8.5' above the shingles.
> 
> With respect to the lube - What do you use?  I didn't pull the pipe off because I was able to get everything with my hands and vaccum, but I'd like to do that next time.  What points do you lube?  The sliding area of the bar, or the hinge assembly, or both?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Don
> 
> -


I thought you wrote that you swept top down. When I’m sooteating my flues, I spin it clockwise going up to the cap and counterclockwise coming down. 

Use high temp antiseize lubricant from the autoparts store. Mine is the copper stuff. It’s after the cat so no fears of poisoning the cat. I lube the rub point of the mechanism right in the middle. There’s a little ramp there. It really smooths out the action and quiets it down. 

If you are flexible and have appropriate tubes you can do a really good job of cleaning sweepings from below. It is important to clean that cat chamber.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Ashful said:


> The Ashford 30 spec's .06" WC maximum, and .05" WC ideal.  I've seen similar numbers for other cat stoves, so while I can't speak with authority about the Princess, I'd be surprised if it's much different.  Start aiming for .05" WC, until you hear otherwise.



Thanks for the input. I hooked up the manometer this weekend, the lowest I saw was .09” WC, the highest was .11” WC while running hot, so I guess that confirms my suspicions that my draft is excessive. These were on kind of average winter days here, mid 20s during the day and single digits at night, no wind.  I’ll continue to monitor for the rest of the winter, my plan this summer was to replace my single wall interior pipe with double wall, so this will be a good time to add a damper.


----------



## Highbeam

TheElementalCashew said:


> Thanks for the input. I hooked up the manometer this weekend, the lowest I saw was .09” WC, the highest was .11” WC while running hot, so I guess that confirms my suspicions that my draft is excessive. These were on kind of average winter days here, mid 20s during the day and single digits at night, no wind.  I’ll continue to monitor for the rest of the winter, my plan this summer was to replace my single wall interior pipe with double wall, so this will be a good time to add a damper.
> 
> View attachment 292123



So when you use a key damper to target a specific draft strength do you need to keep futzing with it? Or is it pretty much wide open to start the fire and then set it and forget it for the load?


----------



## showrguy

Highbeam said:


> So when you use a key damper to target a specific draft strength do you need to keep futzing with it? Or is it pretty much wide open to start the fire and then set it and forget it for the load?


Yepper !!
And once you go to load the stove on a hot reload and forget to open up the damper, it only takes about a millisecond to realize what you did’nt do…. Lol


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Highbeam said:


> So when you use a key damper to target a specific draft strength do you need to keep futzing with it? Or is it pretty much wide open to start the fire and then set it and forget it for the load?



From what I understand, you can set it and forget it once the fire gets going. I'm not sure how that works if its windy or something else is affecting draft.


----------



## kennyp2339

TheElementalCashew said:


> From what I understand, you can set it and forget it once the fire gets going. I'm not sure how that works if its windy or something else is affecting draft.


That is exactly what I do, I just added a step in my reload or lighting process, 1st open damper, then open by-pass, turn t-stat knob all the way, load wood, close by-pass then set damper, turn t-stat down to desired setting, come back 10-24hrs later to repeat depending on the weather


----------



## mwhitnee

Hi there,

I have had a BK King for about 6 years now.  I burn around 4 cords a year.

Sometimes when I get not so great wood I get a restriction issue in the chimney- I am aware of this and know what to do- I essentially sweep the chimney and clean the stove pipe/stove and off we go again.  My venting setup is not so great but I cannot change it.

Anyway, my wood isn't great this year and I get the not so great burns and a little smoke rolling out of the door. I know what to do- I go to sweep the chimney and there definitely was a restriction down low near where the horizontal pipe in the hearth goes into the chimney.  I took care of that- I swept the chimney and cleaned the stove pipe.  The stove pipe and horizontal pipe going into the chimney were fine.

Note: It did not take long for me to have to sweep the chimney this time- around 6 weeks of constant burning.  So that points to the wood not being so dry, which I know.

Anyway, while I had the stove pipe off I looked at the cat from the back side-it is barely 1 year old.  Plugged cat.  Carefully vacuumed it out while in place, front and back.  Shined my flashlight through- good.  It's a Midwest Hearth metal cat-  this is the first one I've ever used.

Now I go to start the stove and it takes a bit- it's cold wood that has some snow on it etc.  But it did take me a LONG time to get it going.   Kept trying to close the door and it didn't like it, wanting to die.  I engage the cat- it's just not burning that great.  Right now it appears to be maintaining temperature but it's not that hot.

Something I almost forgot, my stove has been coaling(fine) but the coals are not really burning well, which has never happened before.  Also, one night I forgot to engage the cat and the stove burned a load without the cat being engaged.

I'm puzzled because I have been burning this top-covered and stacked wood all year.  Same wood- it's not even the last row in the stack that may have gotten a little weather.  Lots of questions:

1) Why was my cat plugged?  Does accidentally not engaging the cat do that?  Does wet wood do that?

2) Is there an air intake on the stove that may be restricted?

3) Do you think it's just bad wood?  Why would it have worked so nicely earlier in the season though?

4) Do I have a faulty cat?

Any advice would be appreciated.  Is there anything else I can check with my setup? I'm really missing the warmth of the fire.

Thanks


----------



## begreen

It sounds like the wood. Try some 2x4 construction cutoffs and see if that helps. Icy or snowy wood shouldn't be put in a hot firebox. It can shock the cat.


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> So when you use a key damper to target a specific draft strength do you need to keep futzing with it? Or is it pretty much wide open to start the fire and then set it and forget it for the load?


No.  In fact, after the first few loads, combination of a little soot in the pipe and the wear that has developed, seems to cause a sort of natural detent in the rotation.  I leave it wide open on a cold start, then check it around 10 minutes after match light, usually adjusting it then to about 45 degrees to keep the draft inline.  As things come up to temperature, usually just before closing the bypass, I adjust it to near its final location.  At the end of the 20 minutes on high, I might fiddle it one more time before turning down for the long burn, but even that is superfluous.

On a warm reload, skip the wide open part, and go right to 45 degrees or near-final setting right after closing the door, depending on how warm the pipe was.

Remember, the manual states .05" WC on a high setting.  There is no readjustment when you turn down.  The draft will naturally pull high as you restrict the inlet, by turning down.  The high draft really only causes issue on high, you could probably put a shop vac on the exhaust with little ill-effect, once turned down.


----------



## Highbeam

mwhitnee said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I have had a BK King for about 6 years now.  I burn around 4 cords a year.
> 
> Sometimes when I get not so great wood I get a restriction issue in the chimney- I am aware of this and know what to do- I essentially sweep the chimney and clean the stove pipe/stove and off we go again.  My venting setup is not so great but I cannot change it.
> 
> Anyway, my wood isn't great this year and I get the not so great burns and a little smoke rolling out of the door. I know what to do- I go to sweep the chimney and there definitely was a restriction down low near where the horizontal pipe in the hearth goes into the chimney.  I took care of that- I swept the chimney and cleaned the stove pipe.  The stove pipe and horizontal pipe going into the chimney were fine.
> 
> Note: It did not take long for me to have to sweep the chimney this time- around 6 weeks of constant burning.  So that points to the wood not being so dry, which I know.
> 
> Anyway, while I had the stove pipe off I looked at the cat from the back side-it is barely 1 year old.  Plugged cat.  Carefully vacuumed it out while in place, front and back.  Shined my flashlight through- good.  It's a Midwest Hearth metal cat-  this is the first one I've ever used.
> 
> Now I go to start the stove and it takes a bit- it's cold wood that has some snow on it etc.  But it did take me a LONG time to get it going.   Kept trying to close the door and it didn't like it, wanting to die.  I engage the cat- it's just not burning that great.  Right now it appears to be maintaining temperature but it's not that hot.
> 
> Something I almost forgot, my stove has been coaling(fine) but the coals are not really burning well, which has never happened before.  Also, one night I forgot to engage the cat and the stove burned a load without the cat being engaged.
> 
> I'm puzzled because I have been burning this top-covered and stacked wood all year.  Same wood- it's not even the last row in the stack that may have gotten a little weather.  Lots of questions:
> 
> 1) Why was my cat plugged?  Does accidentally not engaging the cat do that?  Does wet wood do that?
> 
> 2) Is there an air intake on the stove that may be restricted?
> 
> 3) Do you think it's just bad wood?  Why would it have worked so nicely earlier in the season though?
> 
> 4) Do I have a faulty cat?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.  Is there anything else I can check with my setup? I'm really missing the warmth of the fire.
> 
> Thanks


1) That metal cat is more prone to clogging. The holes are much smaller and with wet wood the intake flapper is way farther open trying to get more heat out of the wood which means more air flow through the stove stirring up more ash to clog that fine filter.

2) Only if you have an outside air connection on your stove and the pipe is smashed or maybe the end plugged with snow or a chicken or something. Nothing internal to the stove is likely to clog.

3) Yes. Test the theory by buying manufactured firewood or lumber as Begreen suggests. Maybe even a neighbor has some good firewood to test. Wet wood when burned down often leaves black partially burnt logs since the logs burn apart and aren't good enough to support combustion alone. 

4) Probably not. It takes 10-12k hours to wear it out. You could have poisoned it by burning garbage but the worst thing about your cat is that it is steel. Clear the clog, clean the stack,  and test with better wood.


----------



## mwhitnee

Highbeam said:


> 1) That metal cat is more prone to clogging. The holes are much smaller and with wet wood the intake flapper is way farther open trying to get more heat out of the wood which means more air flow through the stove stirring up more ash to clog that fine filter.
> 
> 2) Only if you have an outside air connection on your stove and the pipe is smashed or maybe the end plugged with snow or a chicken or something. Nothing internal to the stove is likely to clog.
> 
> 3) Yes. Test the theory by buying manufactured firewood or lumber as Begreen suggests. Maybe even a neighbor has some good firewood to test. Wet wood when burned down often leaves black partially burnt logs since the logs burn apart and aren't good enough to support combustion alone.
> 
> 4) Probably not. It takes 10-12k hours to wear it out. You could have poisoned it by burning garbage but the worst thing about your cat is that it is steel. Clear the clog, clean the stack,  and test with better wood.


Thank you.  It definitely points to the wood.  I did not know about the characteristics of the combustor. It's going now,  definitely acting like wet wood.  I find it strange that initially the wood was burning well but everything seems to point to it.  I will probably try to stir the pot a little more due to the coal thing.  No chicken plugs or garbage burning lol


----------



## Ashful

Is this going to be a new standard question, everytime everyone has an apparent airflow issue?

"Is there a chicken in the pipe?"

If you don't have a good back-story for this one, Highbeam, I'd say you owe us the favor of at least making one up.


----------



## mwhitnee

While we're on the subject of wet wood,  I got 2 cords of ash and 2 cords of oak this year   Do you think it would be better to get all ash/maple etc  than any hardwood like oak? The only reason why I wouldn't do this at this point is because I'm fearing I won't get an overnight burn and my stove will be cold in the morning.


----------



## stoveliker

I'd also get oak. And enough stacking space to let it dry long enough. And a moisture meter so that you can bring a few splits in, let them get up to room temperature in a day or so, resplit them, and measure their moisture content on the freshly split surface. That way you'll know rather than guess that your wood is dry enough.

My two year oak is borderline. But it was a wet year, even more so where you are. My three year oak is fine.


----------



## Ashful

mwhitnee said:


> While we're on the subject of wet wood,  I got 2 cords of ash and 2 cords of oak this year   Do you think it would be better to get all ash/maple etc  than any hardwood like oak? The only reason why I wouldn't do this at this point is because I'm fearing I won't get an overnight burn and my stove will be cold in the morning.


I'd continue as you have done, as mixing ash and maple with oak in each load can really help with getting the stove up to temperature, and thru the first hour of the burn.

Most of my burning since two years after Sandy (i.e. 2014/15 season) has been loads of 100% oak, all flavors (red, std. white, swamp), as that storm and other events since have put miles and miles of oak all over the ground.  I've found that, even after 2.5 years of drying in open stacks, and top covered in August of the year it will be burned, it can still sizzle and light slow.  Better sheds (now built and filled, but not yet pulling from them), or a third full year on future stock will likely resolve some of that, but I still believe it could be better yet with a few interspersed splits of something much dryer and easier to light in each load.

I'm about to become an expert in ash, now.  I've been cutting ash like a madman, the last 2 - 3 years.  Unfortunately, they've been dying all over our neighborhood.  I'm also unfortunately losing some walnuts, which is real sad and terrifying, my yard is peppered with about 60 mature trees, 90% of which are ash or walnut.  :-(


----------



## mwhitnee

That's a big yard! Unfortunately for me I have  room for about 4 cords in my yard(without it being a lumber yard). I might be able to expand it though this year and get 2 more cords of oak to sit for 2 seasons. 

So in hindsight, maybe a cat stove wasn't the best idea for me as I get the wood early spring and stack it and pray. It's burned the same year.  I love my stove though. 

Last year I got some 22 inch pieces and some 18. I think I'll stick with 18 and make sure they split it on the smaller side. 

I was thinking I could put double wall on my little tiny vent pipe(see my profile pic) it might help a little.


----------



## stoveliker

I suggest looking into solar kilns if you need to burn in one year. There are threads on here with quite some data that get down to <20% in a year in a kiln.


----------



## begreen

mwhitnee said:


> Thank you.  It definitely points to the wood.  I did not know about the characteristics of the combustor. It's going now,  definitely acting like wet wood.  I find it strange that initially the wood was burning well but everything seems to point to it.  I will probably try to stir the pot a little more due to the coal thing.  No chicken plugs or garbage burning lol


I had a stack of 2 yr dried maple that acted like this. What happened was depressions and valleys in the tarp collected rainwater that seeped down into the stacks in some areas. Those pieces of wood were still damp. Burning this wood was a struggle and it clogged the cap screen in a month.  Or it could be that there are different species of wood in the stack or that the dry wood was the outer sapwood and not as dense as the heartwood.


----------



## Tron

I'm at 4-hour reloads right now. Not because it's so cold, but when we go the stove I gathered what I could from our woods, and well, there were a few questionable trees in there. Meaning they've been dead for a while, and insects have started hollowing them out.  The insects are long gone, but a big split weighs maybe half a pound, if that. But it's dry, it burns and makes heat,  so I'm good with it. The next stack has better wood in it ;-)


----------



## stoveliker

begreen said:


> I had a stack of 2 yr dried maple that acted like this. What happened was depressions and valleys in the tarp collected rainwater that seeped down into the stacks in some areas. Those pieces of wood were still damp. Burning this wood was a struggle and it clogged the cap screen in a month.  Or it could be that there are different species of wood in the stack or that the dry wood was the outer sapwood and not as dense as the heartwood.


I've seen the same. This is the reason I went to using a "hard" roof. In my case a shed, but one could look at stacks with recycled corrugated metal roofing panels or something similar. Used rubber roofing material also seems to be a good choice from what I've read around here.


----------



## mwhitnee

begreen said:


> I had a stack of 2 yr dried maple that acted like this. What happened was depressions and valleys in the tarp collected rainwater that seeped down into the stacks in some areas. Those pieces of wood were still damp. Burning this wood was a struggle and it clogged the cap screen in a month.  Or it could be that there are different species of wood in the stack or that the dry wood was the outer sapwood and not as dense as the heartwood.


I believe you may be right about the depressions in the tarp thing. I have an old solar pool cover that I have been using and it definitely gets depressions in it due to water. 

I have always thought about getting something like Advantec sheets, painting one side then using those to top cover, but have never pulled the trigger due do the cost.  This would seem to be the best top cover to me(without a wood shed),  but water would still get in.


----------



## Ashful

mwhitnee said:


> I believe you may be right about the depressions in the tarp thing. I have an old solar pool cover that I have been using and it definitely gets depressions in it due to water.
> 
> I have always thought about getting something like Advantec sheets, painting one side then using those to top cover, but have never pulled the trigger due do the cost.  This would seem to be the best top cover to me(without a wood shed),  but water would still get in.


Never tried them myself, but many here have indicated flat rubber roofing scraps are the best top cover, short of a shed.


----------



## Poindexter

I used tarps for a few years and I am not going back willingly.  Water pockets, tarp leaks, inconsistently dry product, snow down my shirt collar, yuck.

Tarps are cheap, and they are quick.  For someone starting out, a new burner, I can see it, not a lot of money and a quick cover for the top.  Tarps got nothing else going for them.

On a small suburban lot, a well ventilated shed is the way to go.  Stack it in there green, when it is dry you can burn it.  If I had or someday have acreage I will consider having two years of fuel in roofed sheds with the rest of my splits stacked off the ground but otherwise in the weather.

Summer 2020 prices a reasonably portable shed system I built was about $500 per cord.  Portable so the tax man can't add it to the property value, but otherwise Cadillac with ground contact rated PT lumber floor framing, metal roofing with some flashing, just really nice.  This was back in the day when Joe Twobyfour cost 3-4 dollars.  On the one hand $500 sounds like a lot, but service life expectancy is 20-30 years.  Over the life of the shed $500 divided by 25 years is 20 bucks a year.  The shed I designed will need to be levelled annualy until the ground under the concrete pads stabilizes, probably 3-5 years.  

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...rk-1-is-built-and-filled.181504/#post-2542221 I just bumped so I can look at the beam tables again for the lower 48 with lower snowloads.


----------



## kennyp2339

Warm day today, stove hasnt been loaded since yesterday evening so a full ash cleanout will be done later, I will inspect my cap and send the brush down for a quick cleaning - no snow on the roof, might as well take advantage of the weather opportunity.


----------



## jdonna

I got a little happy cleaning up the window gasket channel after replacing the window gasket and the studs happened to get a hair cut.  I know it’s been discussed before grinding down the studs, figured I had nothing to lose.


----------



## MissMac

Okay - i put a new steel cat in my stove after 4 winters on my first one.  I have less than 2 months on this new steel cat.  Noticed the performance was slipping last few weeks - more smoke out the chimney, flames dropping off a bit in the box when i flip the bypass after reloads.  Pretty typical for my set-up - means it's time to vacuum the fly ash off the cat face (which i have to do about 3-4 times per year).  I let the stove go cold, removed the heat shield this morning and this is what i see:




So obviously, after my head finished whipping around, I pulled the cat.  This is what it looks like:



	

		
			
		

		
	
 the front -the cells are totally separated from the frame of the catalyst, and a whole bank of the cells have pushed out the back.




Here's a pic from the back:



So - what in the actual *!$# happened?  Like I've been running my stove for 5 years now - nothing new is going on (besides this new cat), no overfires, no forgot to shut the bypass, wood is good and less than 20%.  Was this a faulty cat from the get-go?  I'm pretty p.o.'d cause i just got this cat and it costs more than $400.  I don't have that kind of money to be throwing at another catalyst.  Anybody got any ideas?  @BKVP is it possible to get a replacement for this even though I've used my original warranty replacement, given that this was the replacement i was given and it has blown apart in less than 2 months?

Thanks


----------



## Ashful

I'd just push it back flush, wrap a new gasket on that bad boy, slip it back in the hole, and fire it up!  While a curious thing for some interesting discussion on how it happened, I can't imagine that would impact performance in any way, one pushed back into alignment.

On a possibly-related note, if you're seeing enough fly ash on your cat to cause a degradation in performance 3 - 4 times per year (!), I'm guessing your draft is over spec.  Ever consider adding a key damper?  It really improved the behavior of one of my stoves, where I had measured draft 3x the specified maximum.


----------



## MissMac

I have done my best to push it back together, but it still looks haggard and there is a gap down the side.  For the cost of the catalyst, i am unwilling to accept that it is "good enough" to continue with.  I've contacted the BK dealer to see if BK will replace it, given that it has less than 2 months on it.

As for the fly ash - i attribute that to the jack pine.  Every time i open the stove door, the fine ash from the pine whirls around and over time, this is how it ends up.  Many people have suggested to me that I don't have enough draft given my minimal stack height and ongoing smoke smell issues that have never been resolved or correctly diagnosed.  I am definitely not going to install a key damper.

Really, I'd just like to know if this was just a bunk cat, or if there is something that happened in my stove that caused the damage.  And I want a new cat.




Ashful said:


> I'd just push it back flush, wrap a new gasket on that bad boy, slip it back in the hole, and fire it up!  While a curious thing for some interesting discussion on how it happened, I can't imagine that would impact performance in any way, one pushed back into alignment.
> 
> On a possibly-related note, if you're seeing enough fly ash on your cat to cause a degradation in performance 3 - 4 times per year (!), I'm guessing your draft is over spec.  Ever consider adding a key damper?  It really improved the behavior of one of my stoves, where I had measured draft 3x the specified maximum.


----------



## stoveliker

I would indeed pursue this with BK rather than pushing it back and letting it slide (I know, pun intended). Why? If the gasket is important for the emissions - i.e. if the small gap that would be there if no gasket is in place affects the emissions in a measurable way, then the gaps created by this "deconstruction" could possibly too, given that moving parts mean some gaps will be larger than designed.

Given that that performance (emissions) is one of the main purposes of the cat, this issue directly goes to the core of the role of the cat - and that deserves some response of BK.

I trust that they will work with you outside of the view here.


----------



## jdonna

MissMac said:


> Okay - i put a new steel cat in my stove after 4 winters on my first one.  I have less than 2 months on this new steel cat.  Noticed the performance was slipping last few weeks - more smoke out the chimney, flames dropping off a bit in the box when i flip the bypass after reloads.  Pretty typical for my set-up - means it's time to vacuum the fly ash off the cat face (which i have to do about 3-4 times per year).  I let the stove go cold, removed the heat shield this morning and this is what i see:
> 
> View attachment 292316
> 
> 
> So obviously, after my head finished whipping around, I pulled the cat.  This is what it looks like:
> 
> View attachment 292317
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the front -the cells are totally separated from the frame of the catalyst, and a whole bank of the cells have pushed out the back.
> 
> View attachment 292318
> 
> 
> Here's a pic from the back:
> View attachment 292319
> 
> 
> So - what in the actual *!$# happened?  Like I've been running my stove for 5 years now - nothing new is going on (besides this new cat), no overfires, no forgot to shut the bypass, wood is good and less than 20%.  Was this a faulty cat from the get-go?  I'm pretty p.o.'d cause i just got this cat and it costs more than $400.  I don't have that kind of money to be throwing at another catalyst.  Anybody got any ideas?  @BKVP is it possible to get a replacement for this even though I've used my original warranty replacement, given that this was the replacement i was given and it has blown apart in less than 2 months?
> 
> Thanks


Pretty wild, I've seen that happen with ceramic cats but not steel.  I've ran both in the past in WS stoves and had the ceramic cumbustor push out but not on either style steel cat. It looks like yours was made with 3 separate pieces of substrate and had walked out from expansion/contraction.   Keep us posted on what BK says.


----------



## jdonna

jdonna said:


> I got a little happy cleaning up the window gasket channel after replacing the window gasket and the studs happened to get a hair cut.  I know it’s been discussed before grinding down the studs, figured I had nothing to lose.
> 
> View attachment 292297


Shameless bumping my own post here with an update.  Seems to be no ill effect, if anything a much deeper crush on the gasket.  Think I will get a far more adjustment down the road  too. 

 I replaced it with an oem BK gasket and had a slight smoke leak out of the bottom corner, put up with it two fires.  Ripped it out and got a dual density tight weaved 7/8" gasket locally. 

 When I first got the stove, I had the exact same issue and switched to that style gasket and the problem was solved.  Also, I moved the but joint away from the hinge corner. 

 It's taken a couple of very hot fires to burn the silicone stink out.  I used Meeco's high temp red RTV this time around couldn't get my hands on copper rtv locally that I used last time.  Kind of wished I had the ultra copper, I don't remember the nasty off gassing that this stuff has let out. 

Second, I replaced the window gasket, ordered from BK, its a denser wider weave than the original, no ill effect on the retainers, the overlap process in the manual was a challenge due the gasket being thicker. 

Hopefully this info will help someone out down the road.


----------



## Diabel

To me it looks like a production issue. We have seen few beat up cats (funny) on this forum but never like this where the can separates from the rest. 
Chris must be en route somewhere, I am sure he will chime in when available.


----------



## BKVP

Yes, landed late yesterday.   Left Milwaukee and avoided that storm by 50 miles.

I'm not certain what happened there to the combustor.  There is always some expansion and contraction in both ceramic and metal substrates. The interam combustor gasket usually expands to help avoid excess.  However,  looks like it transpired within the frame.

The dealer should contact Valley Comfort in Penticton B.C. to see what can be done for MissMac. Valley Comfort addresses warranty claims North of the border.

MissMac feel free to email me pictures, dealer name, stove serial number and your contact info.  I can help get it to the proper desk for consideration.


----------



## spudman99

Simple question.

On a hot reload in the morning, sometimes I just don't have enough time for a proper char on the wood.  Standard procedure with the bypass open, load, get cat active, close.   With a raging fire, but only for 5 min or so I have turned down the thermostat to perhaps 3/4 and turn the fan down to med low and leave for work.

Any negatives thus from an incomplete char of dry wood (ash with bark on 50% of the pieces) and 4-6in splits?  My guess is no issue but y'all are smarter than I.


----------



## Tron

Unlikely, I'd say. On a hot reload, the cat is (or should be) already in the active range. I usually reload, wait until the fire is fully established (5mins top) and then close bypass and dial down.


----------



## Highbeam

spudman99 said:


> Simple question.
> 
> On a hot reload in the morning, sometimes I just don't have enough time for a proper char on the wood.  Standard procedure with the bypass open, load, get cat active, close.   With a raging fire, but only for 5 min or so I have turned down the thermostat to perhaps 3/4 and turn the fan down to med low and leave for work.
> 
> Any negatives thus from an incomplete char of dry wood (ash with bark on 50% of the pieces) and 4-6in splits?  My guess is no issue but y'all are smarter than I.


Maybe you can tell us. I'm curious if you've noticed any drawbacks. I suspect most actual users do the same thing but BK enthusiasts on this site tend to let it bake a little longer for this "char" that is supposed to do something good.


----------



## BKVP

spudman99 said:


> Simple question.
> 
> On a hot reload in the morning, sometimes I just don't have enough time for a proper char on the wood.  Standard procedure with the bypass open, load, get cat active, close.   With a raging fire, but only for 5 min or so I have turned down the thermostat to perhaps 3/4 and turn the fan down to med low and leave for work.
> 
> Any negatives thus from an incomplete char of dry wood (ash with bark on 50% of the pieces) and 4-6in splits?  My guess is no issue but y'all are smarter than I.


Your "raging fire in 5 minutes" is the key to the success you may observe.  If your wood is dry enough to get to a raging fire in 5 minutes, congratulations and THANK YOU for burning really well cared for firewood.  I too can accomplish this in 5 minutes or less because my firewood that I am burning (Tamarack/Western Larch) has been C/S/S under cover for 4 years!


----------



## Montanalocal

Yea, that happens with me too.  In fact, when loading, I can only get the first layer of splits in before good flames start licking up.  It is hard to get a full load in.  I never ever change my thermostat setting.  I just leave it on its desired setting that I have found to be good.  I just leave the door cracked open for about 3-5 minutes, then slam shut the bypass and the door and I am good to go.

Of course, I am burning super dry Ponderosa pine that has been dead for over 7 years.


----------



## Tron

I guess it depends as much on the moisture/structure of the firewood as it depends on how many coals are still left.
With a well-established coal bed and splits that are actually splits and not only small round ones, they catch almost instantly and having a "raging fire" in 5 minutes is the norm and not the exception.


----------



## Highbeam

Even from a cold start, once the fire is raging enough to close the bypass it is raging enough to overtemp the chimney a short time later. That is, with my dry Douglas fir. I just have to assume that dense hardwoods from back east behave differently or else the manual wouldn’t ask for such a long char period.


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> Even from a cold start, once the fire is raging enough to close the bypass it is raging enough to overtemp the chimney a short time later. That is, with my dry Douglas fir. I just have to assume that dense hardwoods from back east behave differently or else the manual wouldn’t ask for such a long char period.


Piece size also is key.


----------



## stoveliker

Montanalocal said:


> Yea, that happens with me too.  In fact, when loading, I can only get the first layer of splits in before good flames start licking up.  It is hard to get a full load in.  I never ever change my thermostat setting.  I just leave it on its desired setting that I have found to be good.  I just leave the door cracked open for about 3-5 minutes, then slam shut the bypass and the door and I am good to go.
> 
> Of course, I am burning super dry Ponderosa pine that has been dead for over 7 years.



I'm surprised by this and the approval of @BKVP. If my cat is in the active range upon reload, and fire starts immediately (as you noted), I never keep my door open. It provides cold air, hindering the best combustion and cooling the cat (yes, also if the bypass is open).

If extra air is needed, the best way is to do that through the designed air supply which preheats the air.

Regarding charring time, I do it until all is burning (at least in the front as I can't see in the back with a full load and flames in the front...). For pine at 15 pct that is a couple of minutes. For oak at 18 pct, it spreads a bit slower (often it catches in on e corner, and the fire there seems to suck enough air that it won't catch from the coals at the other side but slowly needs to spread there).

I think I have a bit too much draft (not measured yet) so I often do this initial phase at 4-5 pm on the swoosh because if I do it fully open, the flue probe will get out of range in 10 minutes.


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> I'm surprised by this and the approval of @BKVP. If my cat is in the active range upon reload, and fire starts immediately (as you noted), I never keep my door open. It provides cold air, hindering the best combustion and cooling the cat (yes, also if the bypass is open).
> 
> If extra air is needed, the best way is to do that through the designed air supply which preheats the air.
> 
> Regarding charring time, I do it until all is burning (at least in the front as I can't see in the back with a full load and flames in the front...). For pine at 15 pct that is a couple of minutes. For oak at 18 pct, it spreads a bit slower (often it catches in on e corner, and the fire there seems to suck enough air that it won't catch from the coals at the other side but slowly needs to spread there).
> 
> I think I have a bit too much draft (not measured yet) so I often do this initial phase at 4-5 pm on the swoosh because if I do it fully open, the flue probe will get out of range in 10 minutes.


3-5 minutes is acceptable,  although dialing up the thermostat is also an option.


----------



## bikedennis

Good to know.  I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> 3-5 minutes is acceptable,  although dialing up the thermostat is also an option.



When the wood starts burning even before reloading is complete and in direct contradiction to the manual? ("Never burn with the door open. Leaving the door open may damage the combustor.")

Evidently the manual, including the safety precautions with the red crossed out images, is more suggestive than authoritative in it's recommendations than I thought.


----------



## stoveliker

bikedennis said:


> Good to know.  I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.



The manual says 20-30 minutes or until the fire is well established. So you're good.


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> Good to know.  I've been charing 15-20 min. with dry pine and fir thinking all along it wasn't necessary.



I suppose that "well established" part is the big question. Takes some human judgement. In my experience with dry fir, 20-30 minutes isn't necessary and for anyone who says it is, I would ask, why?


----------



## stoveliker

Soft wood that's not well established after 15 minutes is not dry enough. Period.


----------



## Highbeam

stoveliker said:


> Soft wood that's not well established after 15 minutes is not dry enough. Period.


I've probably wasted a lot of energy over the years chasing that 20-30 minute char trying to do my best to follow the manual. Over the years people have had all sorts of reasons that the 20-30 minute char is so important to even include burning off the microscopic hairs of the wood for some benefit.  Like a fully charred or blackened load was important. 

Anyway, I think I'll start turning down the stat much sooner. Always trying to improve.


----------



## stoveliker

Highbeam said:


> I've probably wasted a lot of energy over the years chasing that 20-30 minute char trying to do my best to follow the manual. Over the years people have had all sorts of reasons that the 20-30 minute char is so important to even include burning off the microscopic hairs of the wood for some benefit.  Like a fully charred or blackened load was important.
> 
> Anyway, I think I'll start turning down the stat much sooner. Always trying to improve.



I don't know what older manuals say, but mine has the quote above: 20-30 minutes or until the fire is well established.

Maybe BK updated the manual at some point in time.

I do generally go back to manuals once I think I know how to operate something. 
I find that useful. It does teach me new things, because now I have a better grasp of the equipment. It puts formed habits in a new light, whether the habits were right or wrong.


----------



## Ashful

Hi guys,

This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong.  But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:

1.  The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues.  Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.

2.  The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes.  The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time.  The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.

Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion.  Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks.  I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today.  I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F.  When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.

This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours.  I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.

I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year.  No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.

Anyone else doing the same?  Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?



Montanalocal said:


> Yea, that happens with me too.  In fact, when loading, I can only get the first layer of splits in before good flames start licking up.  It is hard to get a full load in.


You do have stove gloves?


----------



## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong.  But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:
> 
> 1.  The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues.  Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.
> 
> 2.  The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes.  The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time.  The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.
> 
> Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion.  Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks.  I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today.  I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F.  When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.
> 
> This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours.  I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.
> 
> I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year.  No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.
> 
> Anyone else doing the same?  Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?
> 
> 
> You do have stove gloves?



I certainly don’t have the experimental special edition cat but would love to have one that lasted for more than two seasons! 

I have been closing the bypass when flue temps are over 500 or cat is active. Whichever happens first. I don’t want to engage too early and gunk up the catalyst.

It’s not just me with repeated experience with 10-12k hour cat life. It’s all over and more examples all the time with all of the new cat stove owners.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> This subject has come up a few times in the past, you can probably find these statements in the "all thing BK threads" of 2018 - 2021, if you care to prove me right or wrong.  But from my memory, as this is what I've been doing based on those prior replies from BKVP:
> 
> 1.  The manual is aimed at getting a new operator successful with operating the stove, with the least possible issues.  Experienced burners will learn that it need not be followed in every detail, such as waiting for the cat probe to actually reach active before closing the bypass on a well-charred load.
> 
> 2.  The oft-quoted 20-30 minutes on high is after closing the bypass, and serves two purposes.  The first is to cook all of the creo and deposits out of the firebox, which you deposited on your prior low-and-slow burn, to avoid build-up over time.  The second is to bake an acceptable amount of moisture out of the fresh load of wood, such that you don't stall the cat when turning down low.
> 
> Now, on item 1 above, I have a question in the opposite direction from your former line of discussion.  Namely, I've been closing the bypass earlier and earlier, over the last several weeks.  I'm running one of the beta ("B3") ceramic cats that BKVP had shipped to me and one other users four years ago this week, I believe it's the same or very similar to what is sold as the "V3" cat, today.  I'm getting light-off just ten minutes after a cold start, on a full load of big oak and ash splits, despite the cat probe being barely off it's "dead-cold" position (maybe only 30% progress to "active") and a flue probe temp still below 250F.  When I say light-off, I mean the cat will instantly glow orange hot, indicating temperatures 1000F+.
> 
> This is all excellent news for a 4 year old cat with 25+ cords thru it, and probably more than double Highbeam's oft-quoted 12,000 hours.  I guess we can tell BKVP that his new coating is worth something, but I can't help but think that taking a ceramic substrate from an assumed 250F to well over 1000F in the few seconds following the closing of the bypass damper, isn't going to do some mechanical damage.
> 
> I've been doing this a few weeks now, each time I have a chance to do a cold (or "cool") start, which has been more frequent than usual due to our warm weather this year.  No signs of mechanical failure that I can see, looking thru the front door, but I'll be interested to see what it looks like when I eventually pull it for cleaning.
> 
> Anyone else doing the same?  Are you running a ceramic or steel cat?



I do the same. On a cold start, I have had the cat glowing immediately after closing the bypass 7 minutes after lighting the fire, and despite the gauge having barely moved. Steel cat.

My earlier comments about the manual were not so much on the charring time (the manual says "or until well established"!), but on running with the door open - something that explicitly (with a red bar thru it in the safety precautions section) is said to be damaging the cat.


----------



## stoveliker

Correction: I've done this (early bypass close, check if cat glows) a few times. It works, but I am concerned about the rapid temperature increase and cat coating delamination. So it's not standard practice. (And cat is from 2018 or 2019, I believe.)


----------



## Montanalocal

Ashful said:


> You do have stove gloves?


Oh you bet.  The thickest longest welding gloves I can find.  

Amazon product

I have a KE40 on its second year with the steel cat it came with.  I have been burning with the door open like I described since I bought it, burning 5-6 months a year 24/7.  Every time I remove the flame shield to check to see if it needs brushing, it looks brand new.


----------



## BKVP

I just consulted the premier expert:

Q.  I have a technical question.   Is there any risk or sustained damage if a combustor goes from a low temp (say 500F) to 1,200F in 5 minutes versus 20 minutes.   Any greater likelihood of delamination? (Yes I know that's not a word)

A. To answer your question, that is pretty quick heat up, but I don't think it is a problem. Ceramic would be more susceptible to cracking if we go from hot to cold very fast.  I think metal would be OK either way.


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> I certainly don’t have the experimental special edition cat but would love to have one that lasted for more than two seasons!


As I said, 4 years this week, and at least 6+ cords thru this stove every year.  I'm impressed.



Highbeam said:


> I have been closing the bypass when flue temps are over 500 or cat is active. Whichever happens first. I don’t want to engage too early and gunk up the catalyst.


Like you, I aim to get light-off pretty quickly, after closing that bypass, or else go back to bypass until it can be achieved.  However, I've also mistakenly done the bone-headed move of going to close the bypass and found it had been closed all along, either from cold start or a very cool reload, a few times each year.  It has never caused any ill-effect, I suppose whatever gunk I put onto it burned off several minutes later when the thing is glowing orange.



Highbeam said:


> It’s not just me with repeated experience with 10-12k hour cat life. It’s all over and more examples all the time with all of the new cat stove owners.


Yep, didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I only named you because you were the one from who I first heard this number, and I've seen you quote it again since.  It's an industry number, I didn't intend to shoot the messenger.  My point was that this B3 cat has clearly lasted much longer.

There's a wider discussion on cat life that should be had, though.  I've been putting roughly 10 cords per year thru a pair of cat stoves for 11 years now, so somewhere over 100 cords.  I've been thru traditional ceramic cats, diesel foil, durafoil, and now this special B3 on ceramic.  But short of a catastrophic cooking and peeling or mechanical failure (all of which I experienced on my older stoves), and despite all this experience with cat stoves, I still can't tell you when a cat is depleted and thus "gone bad".  I'm beginning to suspect no one can, as putting aside mechanical or severe overfire scenarios, I suspect the decrease in performance is likely too linear to experience any avalanche in performance that one would associate with going bad.

I bring this up because, I do suspect my 4-year old B3 cat probably drops out of active a bit sooner than it did when brand new, but not so much that I'm even sure of that (given the numerous other variables involved), and certainly not enough that I'm feeling any urgency to replace it.  I replaced the cats that came with these stoves at 3 years, but will admit it was driven as much by curiosity and superstition as any confidence it needed to be done.



Montanalocal said:


> I have a KE40 on its second year with the steel cat it came with.  I have been burning with the door open like I described since I bought it, burning 5-6 months a year 24/7.  Every time I remove the flame shield to check to see if it needs brushing, it looks brand new.


I would not run with the door open, not out of any fear for a cheap combustor, but out of fear of damaging my bypass door.  As BKVP just posted, you can't easily damage a steelcat due to thermal shock, their only acute failure mode appears to be over-firing.  But having my wife walk in on me with a KE40 laying on it's back and a welder in the living room would lead to too many questions about my choices in life.


----------



## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> As I said, 4 years this week, and at least 6+ cords thru this stove every year.  I'm impressed.
> 
> 
> Like you, I aim to get light-off pretty quickly, after closing that bypass, or else go back to bypass until it can be achieved.  However, I've also mistakenly done the bone-headed move of going to close the bypass and found it had been closed all along, either from cold start or a very cool reload, a few times each year.  It has never caused any ill-effect, I suppose whatever gunk I put onto it burned off several minutes later when the thing is glowing orange.
> 
> 
> Yep, didn't mean to imply otherwise.  I only named you because you were the one from who I first heard this number, and I've seen you quote it again since.  It's an industry number, I didn't intend to shoot the messenger.  My point was that this B3 cat has clearly lasted much longer.
> 
> There's a wider discussion on cat life that should be had, though.  I've been putting roughly 10 cords per year thru a pair of cat stoves for 11 years now, so somewhere over 100 cords.  I've been thru traditional ceramic cats, diesel foil, durafoil, and now this special B3 on ceramic.  But short of a catastrophic cooking and peeling or mechanical failure (all of which I experienced on my older stoves), and despite all this experience with cat stoves, I still can't tell you when a cat is depleted and thus "gone bad".  I'm beginning to suspect no one can, as putting aside mechanical or severe overfire scenarios, I suspect the decrease in performance is likely too linear to experience any avalanche in performance that one would associate with going bad.
> 
> I bring this up because, I do suspect my 4-year old B3 cat probably drops out of active a bit sooner than it did when brand new, but not so much that I'm even sure of that (given the numerous other variables involved), and certainly not enough that I'm feeling any urgency to replace it.  I replaced the cats that came with these stoves at 3 years, but will admit it was driven as much by curiosity and superstition as any confidence it needed to be done.
> 
> 
> I would not run with the door open, not out of any fear for a cheap combustor, but out of fear of damaging my bypass door.  As BKVP just posted, you can't easily damage a steelcat due to thermal shock, their only acute failure mode appears to be over-firing.  But having my wife walk in on me with a KE40 laying on it's back and a welder in the living room would lead to too many questions about my choices in life.



For me, trying to eek out every bit of cat life I can, it is painfully obvious when the cat has died. Tar dripping onto my roof obvious. 

My cats see 9 months of heating each year at low output which means the catalyst is doing all the work. 

I’m happy for anyone that can get more than the expected life from a cat. Unlike some, I don’t just swap it out at two years but actually wait for failure. Due to recent supply chain issues I have, for the first time, bought a new spare cat and have it ready. 

Cheers to BK for trying new coatings for longer life.


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> For me, trying to eek out every bit of cat life I can, it is painfully obvious when the cat has died. Tar dripping onto my roof obvious.


Interesting.  It might be the difference in what we're burning, or it might be that I never gave one enough time to get that far gone.  My Jotuls would always destroy the cat due to overfire, way before it had a chance to die any natural death, and the sole pair I replaced on my set of BK's was done because I could sense they were not holding active as long as they once had.  Indeed, the new ones were super-active by comparison, as you'd always expect for a new combustor, but there was no point of avalanche where I could mark the calendar as the old ones having gone bad.  Rather, it appeared to be  a pretty linear and very minor decline, which could have likely been continued another year or three, if I hadn't been more curious than frugal about trying new combustors.

I've been burning very nearly 100% red oak since I've had these BK's, although I've been stacking more ash than oak the last two or three years (EAB), so the fuel going into my stoves will be changing by spring or next fall.  But I suspect you're burning some pine, hemlock, cedar, and other softwoods, which might give a more obvious sign at the top of the chimney, when the cat's performance takes my asserted downhill slide.


----------



## kennyp2339

I was hoping to be sneaky on this late winter / spring, I've only burnt 2 cords out of my woodshed and 1/3 cord (face cord) of uglies since the start of this burn season, my dilemma here is that I'm almost out of wood in the garage rack, its time to refill everything as another round of snow and cold temps are coming in for Thursday through the next 7 days, I wanted to raid another ugly rack and hope that it carries me over to the end of the season, but I never made it to the pile since I've been crazy busy, now everything is soaked and surrounded by mud, so it looks like I'm pulling from my other bay on the shed, this bay is the start of my majority of ash collection.


----------



## BKVP

13F at my home this morning.....thankfully that was outside!  As for "Expected Life", again those are words not from the combustor manufacturer, but the online retailer of combustors.  I wrote this recently, the #1 provider got tired of the "Expected Life" description and no longer provides combustors to that same online retailer.

Everyone's actual mileage may vary....burning habits, fuel/ conditioning, and total fuel burned are all variables that can influence combustor life.  I'll be interested to see if my KE40 (installed in 2020) cat will last as long as my prior stove cats.  My fuels have always been mixed, plus the use of NIELS for 2 full seasons, exclusively.

My prior experience is about 7-8 years.  We get plenty of calls where owners say their stove doesn't put out the heat like it use to.  And we are always surprised when we ask "when was the last time you replaced or cleaned your combustor?" and the response is, "never".  Then you ask how old the stove is and it always nearly a decade (a few have been much, much longer).  Of course these folks may be less sensitive to the appreciable change in performance than others.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> 13F at my home this morning.....thankfully that was outside!  As for "Expected Life", again those are words not from the combustor manufacturer, but the online retailer of combustors.  I wrote this recently, the #1 provider got tired of the "Expected Life" description and no longer provides combustors to that same online retailer.
> 
> Everyone's actual mileage may vary....burning habits, fuel/ conditioning, and total fuel burned are all variables that can influence combustor life.  I'll be interested to see if my KE40 (installed in 2020) cat will last as long as my prior stove cats.  My fuels have always been mixed, plus the use of NIELS for 2 full seasons, exclusively.
> 
> My prior experience is about 7-8 years.  We get plenty of calls where owners say their stove doesn't put out the heat like it use to.  And we are always surprised when we ask "when was the last time you replaced or cleaned your combustor?" and the response is, "never".  Then you ask how old the stove is and it always nearly a decade (a few have been much, much longer).  Of course these folks may be less sensitive to the appreciable change in performance than others.



Let me try to be diplomatic here because I know some people get pretty upset. I have no bias, I am not selling stoves or the concept of catalytic stoves. They are pretty great though.

Just as you may feel that I demand and expect a particular high level of performance, I may feel that you are willing to tolerate a very low level of performance from a worn out catalyst. We all know that some operators run these stoves without a catalyst, just wanting cheap heat. I think we can all acknowledge that there is a range of tolerance for a worn out cat so don't discredit my experience and I won't discredit yours.

What I expected after reading about the expected life from manufacturers and retailers turned into reality. My further experience and that of many other forum members with the same and different cat stoves on this and other forums have long since confirmed that estimate of expected life. Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more. Especially if they are willing to tolerate a worn out cat along with higher emissions, higher visible emissions, more wood consumption, etc. True, BK has been making stoves a long time and has done research but that is just one data point from a manufacturer. User experiences from forum posts are far more valuable for unbiased data. Unfortunately, stove marketing from the industry (not necessarily BK) has been misleading since forever.

In the past, we have agreed to go outside and look up at your stack. If it's smoking when the cat is active then it's probably time to investigate. That's still the appropriate advice and I don't think I've ever heard of anybody advising forum posters to just swap out a cat due to age alone. I personally run the cats until they are worn out and puking white smoke, dripping tar on my roof, and wasting wood to keep up. There is an "avalanche" of performance drop when they die. If the coatings improve and that starts to take 5 years I will be thrilled since even at 2 years I am money ahead. For my application, this thermostatic cat stove is a perfect match.


----------



## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> I've been burning very nearly 100% red oak since I've had these BK's, although I've been stacking more ash than oak the last two or three years (EAB), so the fuel going into my stoves will be changing by spring or next fall.  But I suspect you're burning some pine, hemlock, cedar, and other softwoods, which might give a more obvious sign at the top of the chimney, when the cat's performance takes my asserted downhill slide.



21 degrees here this morning and blowing all night so I threw an extra short load on this morning.

I don't burn pine, hemlock, or true spruce. I have burned cedar in the past. I'm up in the mountain foothills so we mostly get doug fir. In fact, that's all I've burned for the last several years and all I will burn for at least the next two since my woodshed is pretty full of it. Our big three firewood species are doug fir, red alder, and big leaf maple. I really like the maple and alder but most logging residue is the doug fir which is why I burn it.

When the cat dies a horrible death, it is very possible that the oils in the doug fir make it messier than hardwoods would be. Smoke goes from blue whisps to white. It's pretty obvious if you're watching.

One more thought... my stove is right sized. So I'm not trying to run this thing hot. This means that for my application, the cat is doing all of the cleanup work with almost no flames. As such, the failed cat means no scrubbing.


----------



## jdonna

Highbeam said:


> Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more


I agree, I find it's time to swap 2-3 yrs, 10k-12K hrs.  with a cat.  I'm at that mark again with my stove, but do not want to swap with sub zero temps currently.   

Interesting on all the comments of when to turn down the stoves, I've theorized if you bake in for 20-30 minutes  the stove can experience overall shorter burn times if the wood was dry to begin with.


----------



## Nealm66

Man, I’m glad to hear there are others doing hot loads. It’s pretty much all the time for me with my work schedule. I have a smoke detector in the same room as my stove and it keeps me at a fine line on how I reload. I have a temp gage sitting on top between the cat gage and the pipe and there’s a spot during the char that if I don’t close the bypass the smoke detector will for sure go off like clockwork. If I have time, I’ll let the temp gauge reach another certain spot before I throttle it down to the sweet spot. No noticeable changes in cat performance but I thought for sure I was destroying mine early with my hot reloading but work schedule comes first. My princess still seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to burn time. All the same wood, doug fir snags from the same stand of timber. Last night, down to 17, expected things to be burned down pretty good at 6am from a 6pm refill = not . House is good and warm, no idea how or why it can do that. Other milder mornings it might be burned down pretty good where I wouldn’t expect it to go much longer putting out much heat. I gave up this last Sunday and just let it ride and ended up at 21 hours even though it was pretty cold out. Definitely not complaining lol. Just weird


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> Man, I’m glad to hear there are others doing hot loads. It’s pretty much all the time for me with my work schedule. I have a smoke detector in the same room as my stove and it keeps me at a fine line on how I reload. I have a temp gage sitting on top between the cat gage and the pipe and there’s a spot during the char that if I don’t close the bypass the smoke detector will for sure go off like clockwork. If I have time, I’ll let the temp gauge reach another certain spot before I throttle it down to the sweet spot. No noticeable changes in cat performance but I thought for sure I was destroying mine early with my hot reloading but work schedule comes first. My princess still seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to burn time. All the same wood, doug fir snags from the same stand of timber. Last night, down to 17, expected things to be burned down pretty good at 6am from a 6pm refill = not . House is good and warm, no idea how or why it can do that. Other milder mornings it might be burned down pretty good where I wouldn’t expect it to go much longer putting out much heat. I gave up this last Sunday and just let it ride and ended up at 21 hours even though it was pretty cold out. Definitely not complaining lol. Just weird


Just appreciate the technology and most importantly keep it running!  By keeping it running the room temps will remain fairly constant.  If you let the stove go out and all the mass temps drop, it will require more energy to get it back to where you are now.

Next week I will be gone all week to Hearth Expo in ATL.  I know I will load the King to bear on Sunday morning before I leave, but my wife's work hours dictate she run the NG furnace!  Never, Never when I am home!


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> Let me try to be diplomatic here because I know some people get pretty upset. I have no bias, I am not selling stoves or the concept of catalytic stoves. They are pretty great though.
> 
> Just as you may feel that I demand and expect a particular high level of performance, I may feel that you are willing to tolerate a very low level of performance from a worn out catalyst. We all know that some operators run these stoves without a catalyst, just wanting cheap heat. I think we can all acknowledge that there is a range of tolerance for a worn out cat so don't discredit my experience and I won't discredit yours.
> 
> What I expected after reading about the expected life from manufacturers and retailers turned into reality. My further experience and that of many other forum members with the same and different cat stoves on this and other forums have long since confirmed that estimate of expected life. Real world experience from all of the above has shown that 10-12k hours is the expected life for a cat but some folks can get more. Especially if they are willing to tolerate a worn out cat along with higher emissions, higher visible emissions, more wood consumption, etc. True, BK has been making stoves a long time and has done research but that is just one data point from a manufacturer. User experiences from forum posts are far more valuable for unbiased data. Unfortunately, stove marketing from the industry (not necessarily BK) has been misleading since forever.
> 
> In the past, we have agreed to go outside and look up at your stack. If it's smoking when the cat is active then it's probably time to investigate. That's still the appropriate advice and I don't think I've ever heard of anybody advising forum posters to just swap out a cat due to age alone. I personally run the cats until they are worn out and puking white smoke, dripping tar on my roof, and wasting wood to keep up. There is an "avalanche" of performance drop when they die. If the coatings improve and that starts to take 5 years I will be thrilled since even at 2 years I am money ahead. For my application, this thermostatic cat stove is a perfect match.


Well, you are correct.  There are plenty of observations in the real world.  Those that read these posts need to keep a few things in mind. Not all catalytic wood stoves are alike in regard to combustor life, that is certain!  And yes each user is entitled to their own experiences yet I might suggest of all of us involved, I deal with more BK owners than anyone else.  When I say "I", it is meant as our staff, globally.  So we do know the more expansive view, not just forums or in many cases real-world experiences.

I am intrigued by this conversation about fuel species as it relates to combustor life spans.  Of course we started here in the NW and still to this day share a considerable number of living rooms.  I will look into warranty claims & post market sales by region in the USA.  I won't have sufficient data in other countries as many of those are handled by distributors.  I will get back to this is a few weeks.

Studies done by Sud Chemie and Clariant and Applied Ceramics have always focused on potential harmful ingredients, I don't think fuel species has been part of those studies.  I might suggest looking at the greater US market will be out best indicator.  Of course, each region also may have more influence on study results due to winter time temps and duration of winter heating demand days. Interesting...

Moving along, precious metal coatings and the specific blends are oft times specific to manufacturer needs based upon their combustion designs.  One design may not need the same amount of surface area or the same matrix of precious metals.  When we (all us mfg's) design catalytic models, I am certain all get plenty of prototypes for testing.  Given that we only have 2 dilution tunnels (which is 2 more than some solid fuel manufacturers that use test labs for R & D), we have a short list of volunteers.  Ashful was on the last list 4 years ago and was provided a V3 matrix.  Initially, we get great feedback in the form of observations from these test groups and after a number of years (seasons/cords) we can evaluate putting the combustor actually into a test seeking certification.  Doing it this way prevents us from repeating the industry sins of the 1980's.  When we get ready to certify another new solid fuel appliance, we will go to our list.

As for marketing materials, my position on the value of those is known by anyone that has read any of my posts on the subject.

Thanks
BKVP


----------



## jophysx

I've got a new Blaze King Princess coming in a few weeks. Looking forward to next year's burn season. . . Any preference for split size?  Does the Princess do better with a large number of smallish splits, or a few big splits?
Or am I over thinking this?
-Jim


----------



## rwhite

I use both. I try and leave all rounds up to 5-6" unsplit, anything bigger I leave it around 6-8". If I do a cold start I split some bigger pieces down to speed up the starting process. On a hot reload I use the big pieces for longer burn times.


----------



## Tar12

Jim....I use both as well...for the same reasons rwhite does...I burn 24/7 and try to always do a hot reload with big pieces...often times I can only fit 6 of the big pieces in..lol..if I have some not so square pieces that leave some gaps I will split some down to plug the gaps...I find that the larger pieces packed in last longer..


----------



## dpp5000

This is my 5th season with the king ultra. It’s been a great stove so far but I have noticed shorter burn times and no ghost flames towards the end of this season.  By ghost flames I mean how the blaze kings burn right after you have turned it down with the bypass closed. I checked the door with the dollar bill test and it seems tight and the bypass seems to be closing well. The cat does glow when engaged but probably not quite as bright and not for as long as when it was new. I have always burned wood that has sat in a cover shed with no walls for at least one full year before burning. Has anyone had these issues?  I think I will replace the cat next but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks.


----------



## kennyp2339

Take the smoke pipe off and vacuum behind the cat, take the front shield off and vacuum lightly the face of the cat, check your chimney cap for build up.


----------



## kennyp2339

Large split guy myself, generally I split between 6-8" the dries out for 3 years on average before burning, if I need to make a fire or stoke up and ash bed I'll take 2 large splits and make 5-6 smaller splits out of them then load the big guys on and forget about the fire for 12-20hrs.


----------



## lsucet

dpp5000 said:


> This is my 5th season with the king ultra. It’s been a great stove so far but I have noticed shorter burn times and no ghost flames towards the end of this season.  By ghost flames I mean how the blaze kings burn right after you have turned it down with the bypass closed. I checked the door with the dollar bill test and it seems tight and the bypass seems to be closing well. The cat does glow when engaged but probably not quite as bright and not for as long as when it was new. I have always burned wood that has sat in a cover shed with no walls for at least one full year before burning. Has anyone had these issues?  I think I will replace the cat next but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks.


I will check the wood MC regardless. The cat has nothing to see with the ghost flames in my opinion. Maybe I can be wrong. Firebox temperature when you close the thermostat is what makes the ghost flames show for a few minutes. A good char and high temperature should do it unless the wood MC is high


----------



## Ashful

BKVP said:


> I am intrigued by this conversation about fuel species as it relates to combustor life spans. Of course we started here in the NW and still to this day share a considerable number of living rooms. I will look into warranty claims & post market sales by region in the USA. I won't have sufficient data in other countries as many of those are handled by distributors. I will get back to this is a few weeks.


... and then you'll have to ask whether eastern hardwoods actually depreciate the combustor more slowly than western softwoods, or whether the difference in wood just makes us less aware of said depreciation.  

I joke, but when I originally brought this up, it was the latter on my mind.  Between less resinous woods, and the likelihood that I'm running my primary stove a good bit hotter than Highbeam, I almost wonder if a cat that's ready for replacement in his setup might work fine for another year or two in mine.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> ... and then you'll have to ask whether eastern hardwoods actually depreciate the combustor more slowly than western softwoods, or whether the difference in wood just makes us less aware of said depreciation.
> 
> I joke, but when I originally brought this up, it was the latter on my mind.  Between less resinous woods, and the likelihood that I'm running my primary stove a good bit hotter than Highbeam, I almost wonder if a cat that's ready for replacement in his setup might work fine for another year or two





dpp5000 said:


> This is my 5th season with the king ultra. It’s been a great stove so far but I have noticed shorter burn times and no ghost flames towards the end of this season.  By ghost flames I mean how the blaze kings burn right after you have turned it down with the bypass closed. I checked the door with the dollar bill test and it seems tight and the bypass seems to be closing well. The cat does glow when engaged but probably not quite as bright and not for as long as when it was new. I have always burned wood that has sat in a cover shed with no walls for at least one full year before burning. Has anyone had these issues?  I think I will replace the cat next but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks.


Do you see visible emissions out the stack once load stabilizes?


----------



## kennyp2339

I've switched over to all ash firewood for the past 3 loads, I will say this much, my stove loves it and it gives me good confidence for the next few years where the majority of my stock will be ash, I was a little nervous about not having much oak, but now i know I'll be fine


----------



## Ashful

Ash is wonderful.  Better BTU and less ash than walnut, dries fast, and is very plentiful, around here.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> Ash is wonderful.  Better BTU and less ash than walnut, dries fast, and is very plentiful, around here.


Yeah but splitting walnut, nothing smells better!


----------



## ratsrepus

dpp5000 said:


> This is my 5th season with the king ultra. It’s been a great stove so far but I have noticed shorter burn times and no ghost flames towards the end of this season.  By ghost flames I mean how the blaze kings burn right after you have turned it down with the bypass closed. I checked the door with the dollar bill test and it seems tight and the bypass seems to be closing well. The cat does glow when engaged but probably not quite as bright and not for as long as when it was new. I have always burned wood that has sat in a cover shed with no walls for at least one full year before burning. Has anyone had these issues?  I think I will replace the cat next but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks.


Time for a new cat, 5 seasons, your ready


----------



## Todd

BKVP said:


> Yeah but splitting walnut, nothing smells better!


Cedar


----------



## stoveliker

dpp5000 said:


> This is my 5th season with the king ultra. It’s been a great stove so far but I have noticed shorter burn times and no ghost flames towards the end of this season.  By ghost flames I mean how the blaze kings burn right after you have turned it down with the bypass closed. I checked the door with the dollar bill test and it seems tight and the bypass seems to be closing well. The cat does glow when engaged but probably not quite as bright and not for as long as when it was new. I have always burned wood that has sat in a cover shed with no walls for at least one full year before burning. Has anyone had these issues?  I think I will replace the cat next but wanted to see if anyone has any other suggestions. Thanks.



I agree with isucet that the ghost flames are not likely related to cat performance, and with Kenny that it's good to look behind the cat for restrictions.

Also, are you burning another type of wood? (I.e. one that dries slower? One year old wood could still be too wet, depending on type and climate.)


----------



## Ashful

Todd said:


> Cedar


Cedar is nice, but I split and machine a lot of both, and I'll take Walnut even over Cedar. 

My lawn is populated with mostly Walnut trees.  A little part of me dies each time one blows down or succumbs to disease.


----------



## RustyShackleford

ratsrepus said:


> Time for a new cat, 5 seasons, your ready


I don't think it's a given that a cat is due for replacement in 5 seasons.  I'm currently in my 7th season on mine, and it's performing good as new.    I am in a relatively warm climate (central NC) but not as warm as yours (Mississippi ?); but guy looking for advice seems to be in NY.   FWIW, I burn almost-exclusively oak.


----------



## BKVP

RustyShackleford said:


> I don't think it's a given that a cat is due for replacement in 5 seasons.  I'm currently in my 7th season on mine, and it's performing good as new.    I am in a relatively warm climate (central NC) but not as warm as yours (Mississippi ?); but guy looking for advice seems to be in NY.   FWIW, I burn almost-exclusively oak.


I spoke to Dave today.  509-294-XXXX.  Dave has a KEJ1107 he purchased new in 2010.  He said he noticed the stove just started to burn a bit differently.   I asked Dave when he last replaced his combustor.  He said never.

Boy I told him he'll be super happy when he does because for many folks the depreciation in performance is ever so slight and for others more dramatic. 

I think when he gets it installed he'll say "oh yeah, that's how it use to be".


----------



## RustyShackleford

BKVP said:


> I spoke to Dave today.  509-294-XXXX.  Dave has a KEJ1107 he purchased new in 2010.  He said he noticed the stove just started to burn a bit differently.   I asked Dave when he last replaced his combustor.  He said never.
> 
> Boy I told him he'll be super happy when he does because for many folks the depreciation in performance is ever so slight and for others more dramatic.
> 
> I think when he gets it installed he'll say "oh yeah, that's how it use to be".


I suppose I should backtrack a little on saying my 7 year-old steel cat burns like new.     I do see some smoke coming out the chimney when it seems like the cat is cooking away; that gives me pause.   OTOH, it's not unusual, the morning after I've turned the thermostat way down for the night, to see the cat trucking along well above 500 degrees, with nothing resembling a fire visible in the firebox; that suggests to me the cat is working fine.   The smoke is still a bit of a mystery ...


----------



## BKVP

RustyShackleford said:


> I suppose I should backtrack a little on saying my 7 year-old steel cat burns like new.     I do see some smoke coming out the chimney when it seems like the cat is cooking away; that gives me pause.   OTOH, it's not unusual, the morning after I've turned the thermostat way down for the night, to see the cat trucking along well above 500 degrees, with nothing resembling a fire visible in the firebox; that suggests to me the cat is working fine.   The smoke is still a bit of a mystery ...Make certain the bypass is sealing tight.  Second, make certain combustor gasket around combustor is intact.


----------



## RustyShackleford

I think my wood is pretty dry - I typically cut it during the winter that is two years before the winter when I burn it (and from trees that were already dead) - so it cures between 1-1/2 and 2 years.  And I have no trouble keeping fires going 12+ hours with the cat active (more like 20 hrs if I really load it up).   But I suppose some of the smoke I see could be steam.

I never burn trash - not sure where that came from.

But there is something about the door seal that stumps me.  Adjusting the latch will tighten most of the door seal, but not on the side where the hinge is, since nothing can change that gap - and it fails the dollar-bill test there.   But, would that be causing smoke when the cat is active ?   Anyhow, it must not be that bad, if I can easily keep a fire going 12+ hours, right ?


----------



## Ashful

What stove are you running, Rusty?  I haven’t yet figured out how to do the dollar bill test on an Ashford, without hiring a toddler to do it from inside the firebox, especially hinge side.


----------



## ratsrepus

Ashful said:


> What stove are you running, Rusty?  I haven’t yet figured out how to do the dollar bill test on an Ashford, without hiring a toddler to do it from inside the firebox, especially hinge side.


Im sitting here looking at my Ashford, and now that you mention it ,  the dollar bill test  doesn't look doable. never noticed it before,


----------



## BKVP

RustyShackleford said:


> I think my wood is pretty dry - I typically cut it during the winter that is two years before the winter when I burn it (and from trees that were already dead) - so it cures between 1-1/2 and 2 years.  And I have no trouble keeping fires going 12+ hours with the cat active (more like 20 hrs if I really load it up).   But I suppose some of the smoke I see could be steam.
> 
> I never burn trash - not sure where that came from.
> 
> But there is something about the door seal that stumps me.  Adjusting the latch will tighten most of the door seal, but not on the side where the hinge is, since nothing can change that gap - and it fails the dollar-bill test there.   But, would that be causing smoke when the cat is active ?   Anyhow, it must not be that bad, if I can easily keep a fire going 12+ hours, right ?


When a new gasket is installed,  the latch on your stove needs to be backed out.  Often, the gasket gets prematurely "crushed" on the latch side, making it impossible to achieve a seal of equal tension across the door surface area.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> What stove are you running, Rusty?  I haven’t yet figured out how to do the dollar bill test on an Ashford, without hiring a toddler to do it from inside the firebox, especially hinge side.


So back in the 1970's a stove shop in Oregon ran a print ad to show BK had added a glass viewing door option.  Inside the stove was the owners granddaughter looking out!  I think CPS would have an issue with that these days.

As for the dollar bill test, you need a longer piece of paper.  Dealers use parchment paper in long 4" wide strips.


----------



## RustyShackleford

BKVP said:


> When a new gasket is installed,  the latch on your stove needs to be backed out.  Often, the gasket gets prematurely "crushed" on the latch side, making it impossible to achieve a seal of equal tension across the door surface area.


I've only installed a new door gasket once, and yeah, maybe I did that.   Maybe time to do it again.


----------



## stoveliker

So, normally I do walk away after dialing down the stove after a reload. Today I happened to be near the stove 45 minutes after a baby-reload (that'll get me to the overnight reload). I had set it a bit higher as I had underestimated the temperature loss overnight and needed to heat up the main floor (basement stove) a degree or two. 4 red oak splits. Swoosh at 3.30 or so (6.00=max). 

Black box, but flue temp probe at 700 F. So I bend over to look at the cat, and indeed, running bright... Went outside - zip to see.

I'd not seen a 700 F flue without any flames yet.


----------



## Ashful

Yeah, 700F sounds crazy hot for flue probe.  You sure you didn’t accidentally leave that bypass open?  😛

How far above stove collar?  Mine usually runs 250F, but can peak around 500-600 on highest burn setting, I think about 14” above collar.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> Yeah, 700F sounds crazy hot for flue probe.  You sure you didn’t accidentally leave that bypass open?  😛
> 
> How far above stove collar?  Mine usually runs 250F, but can peak around 500-600 on highest burn setting, I think about 14” above collar.



Bypass is closed. Otherwise the cat would not be bright.
18" above the collar.

I have seen hotter, but that was during a high burn in the initial charring phase. Never seen this with a black box. 

I'm curious what the thought is on wood parameters here. It's red oak. Quite dry ( for me....last I measured from this stack it was 17 pct, and it's been in a 80 F basement for a week or so). It was only 45 minutes in the burn (after a 10 minute high burn upon reload), so some lighter compounds might still be releasing, feeding the cat a lot of fuel. Cat gauge was 1/8" from running out of the hot end of the active zone.


----------



## Nealm66

Crazy weather. 52 degrees and pouring rain . Got the princess turned way down and 24 reload but still 75.2 in the house.


----------



## Ashful

stoveliker said:


> I'm curious what the thought is on wood parameters here. It's red oak. Quite dry ( for me....last I measured from this stack it was 17 pct, and it's been in a 80 F basement for a week or so).


My numbers are on red oak, as well, but I know mine is not that dry.  Red oak makes up about 90% of what I burned 2015 until last week, as Sandy (2012) took down a large fraction of them in our area, but I had it stacked on pallets (30 cords worth, at one point) outdoors, uncovered until September of the year it would be burned.  Even after 3 summers, and truthfully I burned some of it after just 2 summers and 3 winters, it still feels wet and sometimes sizzles when first lighting.

This week, I switched to hickory (and stacked in my new sheds!), as a 2019 tornado ripped thru a local church lot that was heavily populated with that tree.  I still have maybe 1 cord of the red oak left, but it's buried among hickory and ash, now.


----------



## Ashful

Nealm66 said:


> Crazy weather. 52 degrees and pouring rain . Got the princess turned way down and 24 reload but still 75.2 in the house.


According to @Diabel, these little stoves can't run that long.  😜


----------



## Nealm66

They definitely can and do. Should have probably did short small fires might have been a better choice in my situation though . Still learning.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> According to @Diabel, these little stoves can't run that long.  😜



That's not entirely correct. @Diabel commented on "nearly 40 hours" which indeed seems rather exceptional for a stove of 3 cu ft. And the quoted bkvp time was for a larger firebox. Moreover what do you mean with your long burn time? Active cat? Coals to relight? Usable heat? (The latter also is vague: at 20 F outside, usable heat is a different thing than at 45 F outside...)

Regardless, more than 24 hrs is certainly (easily) possible for when one does not need a lot of heat. The 30 hr advertising is correct. (Though I only use such a mode when I only want to keep the stove warm during a one day warm spell...)


----------



## Diabel

Regardless, 20h, 30h. It is insane sounding to a regular Joe who burns wood in a noncat stove.


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> They definitely can and do. Should have probably did short small fires might have been a better choice in my situation though . Still learning.


Welcome to March! I only did a partial load yesterday at 6. Four splits but they were big, dense, pitchy Doug fir from the base. It’s 80 degrees in the house this morning. Schools are 2 hours late start due to flooding. Washington gets these “pineapple expresses” of warm wet air from the tropics  every year just to keep the mud wet and the frogs croaking.


----------



## Ashful

stoveliker said:


> That's not entirely correct. @Diabel commented on "nearly 40 hours" which indeed seems rather exceptional for a stove of 3 cu ft.


Yeah, I was just poking fun.  That's where the tongue out emoticon came in.

The original point to which I (and then Diabel) were responding, was that a user was excited about a 20 hour burn time in a King.  I was simply noting that this is nothing to get excited about.



stoveliker said:


> Moreover what do you mean with your long burn time? Active cat? Coals to relight? Usable heat?


Maybe we haven't had that semi-annual debate since you've been on the forum.  There can indeed be many definitions of burn time, but we always seem to come back to active cat as the definition of burn time in a cat stove, and it was to that which I was referring.


----------



## Diabel

I burn mostly hemlock and am ecstatic about getting 18h burns. I can stretch it longer but I see no point. I have so much fuel.
My issue with the BK is that the 18h burns throw me off cycle after burning for a few days.  Not a bad issue to have😜


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> Yeah, I was just poking fun.  That's where the tongue out emoticon came in.
> 
> The original point to which I (and then Diabel) were responding, was that a user was excited about a 20 hour burn time in a King.  I was simply noting that this is nothing to get excited about.
> 
> 
> Maybe we haven't had that semi-annual debate since you've been on the forum.  There can indeed be many definitions of burn time, but we always seem to come back to active cat as the definition of burn time in a cat stove, and it was to that which I was referring.



Sorry, I am of the old-fashioned way that face-to-face works better. Less misunderstandings (all on my side...), less toes stepped on (inadvertently).  So I missed that.

Oh, I've seen the debates. Indeed (more than) twice a year. But it's good to clarify. 
For me, now, I'm simmering the stove (44 today, will use some solar electrons thru the minisplit), just to keep it and the flue warm-ish. Cat will drop out of the active range at some point. But if I reload on some glowing coals (still have some red cedar kindling to help), it'll be active very soon because the stove and cat is still warm. Burn time... it depends...


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> Welcome to March! I only did a partial load yesterday at 6. Four splits but they were big, dense, pitchy Doug fir from the base. It’s 80 degrees in the house this morning. Schools are 2 hours late start due to flooding. Washington gets these “pineapple expresses” of warm wet air from the tropics  every year just to keep the mud wet and the frogs croaking.


Same here.  Half load this morning, and set on low.  Will easily run until this evening's reload window.


----------



## Ashful

stoveliker said:


> Sorry, I am of the old-fashioned way that face-to-face works better. Less misunderstandings (all on my side...), less toes stepped on (inadvertently).  So I missed that.
> 
> Oh, I've seen the debates. Indeed (more than) twice a year. But it's good to clarify.
> For me, now, I'm simmering the stove (44 today, will use some solar electrons thru the minisplit), just to keep it and the flue warm-ish. Cat will drop out of the active range at some point. But if I reload on some glowing coals (still have some red cedar kindling to help), it'll be active very soon because the stove and cat is still warm. Burn time... it depends...


Yep.  Plenty of chances to get into misunderstandings here, I see it all the time.  Best to just assume the best intentions, when there's any doubt, although that can be tough when it's aimed at you.

I think what we can all agree on, despite any disagreements on definition of burn time or the actual usefulness of stretching a 3 cubic foot stove for 35 hours, is the beauty of having a stove that does damn near whatever we want.  It was 20F-something this morning, and will be in the upper 40's this afternoon, way above average for us, but no worries.  I can throw some wood in the stove, run it low-ish this morning, and then damn near shut it down in the afternoon.  If I ran a non-cat, or really almost any other stove, I'd be worrying a lot more about how many splits I put into the stove, and whether it'll be burned out before the afternoon, lest the place get too warm.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> Yep.  Plenty of chances to get into misunderstandings here, I see it all the time.  Best to just assume the best intentions, when there's any doubt, although that can be tough when it's aimed at you.
> 
> I think what we can all agree on, despite any disagreements on definition of burn time or the actual usefulness of stretching a 3 cubic foot stove for 35 hours, is the beauty of having a stove that does damn near whatever we want.  It was 20F-something this morning, and will be in the upper 40's this afternoon, way above average for us, but no worries.  I can throw some wood in the stove, run it low-ish this morning, and then damn near shut it down in the afternoon.  If I ran a non-cat, or really almost any other stove, I'd be worrying a lot more about how many splits I put into the stove, and whether it'll be burned out before the afternoon, lest the place get too warm.


Respectfully,  it's not solely at cat vs non cat issue.  It's a thermostat versus manual damper influence for those quoted burn times.


----------



## Diabel

Of course there is way more at play than just cat vs non-cat debate. This thread was established primarily for people to come here seek help and learn from several seasoned and very active/knowledgeable BK burners. Sometimes some of us enjoy poking at each other. It is fun and no one takes it seriously.


----------



## Nealm66

80 degrees? !! Dang


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> 80 degrees? !! Dang


Has crept up to 81. The problem with a long burning stove is shutting it off. This small 4 split load is now bumping past 19 hours. I wish it would have burned out this morning at just 12 hours. Couple bread loaves of fuel still left.  

After all these years I still screw it up every so often.


----------



## Diabel

Highbeam said:


> Has crept up to 81. The problem with a long burning stove is shutting it off. This small 4 split load is now bumping past 19 hours. I wish it would have burned out this morning at just 12 hours. Couple bread loaves of fuel still left.
> 
> After all these years I still screw it up every so often.


You are talking my tongue now.
Sorry this is inside? Not out side


----------



## Nealm66

Man, I totally get it.  I’m a constant 75 but really don’t want to keep trying small fires. Busy/lazy . It’s weird how much heat these things can suck out of a small amount of wood when you really would rather have them not lol


----------



## kennyp2339

Im in ooze mode myself, high of 38, threw a load of ash this morning at 6am, 3/4 of it is burnt, cat probe is still at 1 oclock and its 74 upstairs, might top off the tank before bed and let it do its things, this time of year is were I really cash in on wood savings.


----------



## Ashful

Highbeam said:


> The problem with a long burning stove is shutting it off. This small 4 split load is now bumping past 19 hours.


"That's a feature, not a bug."  😜

Name another stove that can go 19 hours on 4 small splits, and I'll admit there's another stove equal to BK.


----------



## Highbeam

Ashful said:


> "That's a feature, not a bug."  😜
> 
> Name another stove that can go 19 hours on 4 small splits, and I'll admit there's another stove equal to BK.


They were big and heavy fir splits but still one handers. Yes, long burns at low output are a feature that I appreciate. Operator error!


----------



## begreen

Highbeam said:


> They were big and heavy fir splits but still one handers. Yes, long burns at low output are a feature that I appreciate. Operator error!


It's the same issue with a masonry stove. Once the flywheel is turning, the heat will keep on coming. One needs to watch the upcoming weather in these spring conditions. Once the sun came out yesterday things warmed up nicely. With the predicted temps I didn't light a fire. By noon there was no need for heat. The sun warmed things up quickly and we had a couple of windows cracked open by 2, it was 60º outside. The heat pump didn't come on until around 7.


----------



## Highbeam

begreen said:


> It's the same issue with a masonry stove. Once the flywheel is turning, the heat will keep on coming. One needs to watch the upcoming weather in these spring conditions. Once the sun came out yesterday things warmed up nicely. With the predicted temps I didn't light a fire. By noon there was no need for heat. The sun warmed things up quickly and we had a couple of windows cracked open by 2, it was 60º outside. The heat pump didn't come on until around 7.



I certainly would have been using a heat pump on such a warm day if I had one. It would have been too cold in the house to have no fire but my mistake was not taking these large splits to the chopping block to mince them up a bit smaller to right-size the fuel load for the predicted weather. It was dark and rainy and the only available splits were large.


----------



## Tar12

Beta Cat? Talk to me  BKVP!


----------



## stoveliker

alpha dog, gimme beta cat ...


----------



## Nealm66

Lol


----------



## RustyShackleford

Just in case another one slipped through the cracks ... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/blaze-king-thermostat-faulty.48603/


----------



## stoveliker

Back to Tetris. All red oak.


----------



## Ashful

Tar12 said:


> Beta Cat? Talk to me  BKVP!


Um... you're about 4 years late, on that.


----------



## Kwehme09

I haven't posted here in awhile and a fair bit has changed. 

I sold my small, tightly insulated house in NH along with my Sirocco 20, and moved North to Aroostook County Maine and bought a drafty old farmhouse.  In November, before even closing on the house we ordered a BK Princess and FINALLY picked it up today. Leg kit was missing the 1/2" bolts, but I solved that, hooked it up and lit our first fire. First, I will acknowledge that everything is different,   house, chimney, stove, insulation,  etc. etc., but I'd still like to figure out some of the differences I am seeing. We are experienced BK operators, but, only our BK, so... who knows. 

Kindled the first fire and quickly smoked up the house with that wonderful initial burn off; got things good and hot, filled the fire box with big, dry hardwood  splits and closed the bypass when things were comfortably in "the zone".  Decided to run things on high for a few minutes (directions say 20-30), but the Cat temped quickly spiked higher than I ever saw it go on my Sirocco. Way higher. Beyond the solid white on the dial. I turned the T-Stat counter clockwise to about 3 O'Clock, and while it snuffed the flames in the typical BK way it had no effect on the Cat temp. No real complaint, the house is still only 67 about 3 hours of burning, and the wood looks like its hardly burnt, but is that super high Cat temp a problem? How far do you Princess users turn down your T-Stat to get the cat to start going down? I've now gone around to about 11 on the clock, and while it appears to be damped way down, Cat temp is still cranked. I assume this its a good thing, but just want to check if high Cat temps are ever a problem. 

I'm sure Ill be back with more questions soon as we continue learning the new stove. 

Also, the guys at Northwinds Stove in Ellsworth have been great to deal with so far. Good communication, and super friendly to my wife who drove down to pick it up.


----------



## stoveliker

It's a new cat. They are hyperactive. It'll settle down in a cord or so. No worries.

Congrats on the new home and new stove!


----------



## Kwehme09

stoveliker said:


> It's a new cat. They are hyperactive. It'll settle down in a cord or so. No worries.
> 
> Congrats on the new home and new stove!



Thank you. The house has a Western view looking unobstructed at Mt. Katahdin, and I landed a job as head of Maintenance in Baxter State Park; anyone that knows the place will know how sweet that is. 

Just wanted to make sure there was no "over fire" risk. At times I'll be running on the high end, especially the n the wind blows ,which it often does here.


----------



## stoveliker

I'm jealous 

Running high should not be a problem; folks in AK run high days (weeks) on end. The thermostat still will (partially) close off the air if the temperature gets above the max that the factory set. This, if everything works well, there are no (gasket) leaks, and you don't have overdraft, should prevent overfiring.


----------



## Kwehme09

stoveliker said:


> I'm jealous
> 
> Running high should not be a problem; folks in AK run high days (weeks) on end. The thermostat still will (partially) close off the air if the temperature gets above the max that the factory set. This, if everything works well, there are no (gasket) leaks, and you don't have overdraft, should prevent overfiring.



I figured all was well, kind of just wanted to make sure. So excited to have the Princess.

Below are a couple photos to help with the jealousy. One of wife and daughter skiing in our back fields, the other is from a "work" day of mine.


----------



## stoveliker

Goal achieved (jealousy). ;-)

Have fun, and stay warm (and look at.the insulation of your home; the princess can dial down a lot...)


----------



## Kwehme09

stoveliker said:


> Goal achieved (jealousy). ;-)
> 
> Have fun, and stay warm (and look at.the insulation of your home; the princess can dial down a lot...)


We definitely will be. Attic insulation is minimal, old cellulose in the walls has settled, replacement windows are junk and not all the weight pockets were filled, etc. etc. It's good for an old house, but it gets hammered by wind. 

Take care.


----------



## Ashful

New cats are hyper-active, and running on high days at a time is no problem... if the stove has no leaks.  Based on your observation that turning the dial down stuffed things out pretty well, I'm guessing you're probably good, but perhaps it'd be good to get BKVP's take on that before risking too much.

For the record, I run entire loads on high in one of my Ashfords when it gets cold out, and if I'm going to be around to reload in a few hours.  Never an issue, the thermostat does its thing.


----------



## Tar12

Ashful said:


> Um... you're about 4 years late, on that.


Thats unfortunate..lol


----------



## Kwehme09

Ok, here's a new one for me:

Loaded the brand new princess before bed and set it how I usually would with my Sirocco. Came downstairs in the morning (8 hours later) and all was well with the stove itself; plenty of fuel remaining, CAT still well in the burn zone, etc. However, I clearly had a fair bit oof water running out through my thimble in the wall. 

We've been in the house 4 for months, burnt plenty oof wood on the old wood stove (total blow torch that overtired and flew through wood) and never had this issue. Perfectly clear skies, so its not a weather and leak issue. It's not tar like, so its not creosote. 

It's a masonry chimney, with a liner. Stove pipe goes up out of the woodstove vertically for 3 feet, does a 90 and goes into the wall where its connection to the liner is made. 

I am guessing this is a condensation issue because the gases from the BK are so cool due to being so efficient? I am a little surprised that it is finding its way in, since if it was condensing in the chimney liner itself I'd think it wouldn't make 90 degree turn to come into the house. 

Any thoughts on cause and/or prevention?


----------



## Tar12

Kwehme09 said:


> Ok, here's a new one for me:
> 
> Loaded the brand new princess before bed and set it how I usually would with my Sirocco. Came downstairs in the morning (8 hours later) and all was well with the stove itself; plenty of fuel remaining, CAT still well in the burn zone, etc. However, I clearly had a fair bit oof water running out through my thimble in the wall.
> 
> We've been in the house 4 for months, burnt plenty oof wood on the old wood stove (total blow torch that overtired and flew through wood) and never had this issue. Perfectly clear skies, so its not a weather and leak issue. It's not tar like, so its not creosote.
> 
> It's a masonry chimney, with a liner. Stove pipe goes up out of the woodstove vertically for 3 feet, does a 90 and goes into the wall where its connection to the liner is made.
> 
> I am guessing this is a condensation issue because the gases from the BK are so cool due to being so efficient? I am a little surprised that it is finding its way in, since if it was condensing in the chimney liner itself I'd think it wouldn't make 90 degree turn to come into the house.
> 
> Any thoughts on cause and/or prevention?


Insulated liner?


----------



## Kwehme09

Tar12 said:


> Insulated liner?



Yes.


----------



## kennyp2339

Kwehme09 said:


> Loaded the brand new princess before bed and set it how I usually would with my Sirocco. Came downstairs in the morning (8 hours later) and all was well with the stove itself; plenty of fuel remaining, CAT still well in the burn zone, etc. However, I clearly had a fair bit oof water running out through my thimble in the wall.


Your going to have to find that balance of burning at a higher rate to prevent the condensation from forming, also back to the cat probe being pegged, understood that its a brand new cat and hyper active, but turning the stove's rate of burn down believe it or not makes the cat burn even hotter since it will have more fuel, try to find the setting that you have small rolling flames in the firebox, this will protect the cat even further by reducing the particle fuel it would need to consume and may keep the chimney between the liner and masonry above that condensation zone.


----------



## Kwehme09

kennyp2339 said:


> Your going to have to find that balance of burning at a higher rate to prevent the condensation from forming, also back to the cat probe being pegged, understood that its a brand new cat and hyper active, but turning the stove's rate of burn down believe it or not makes the cat burn even hotter since it will have more fuel, try to find the setting that you have small rolling flames in the firebox, this will protect the cat even further by reducing the particle fuel it would need to consume and may keep the chimney between the liner and masonry above that condensation zone.



Ok. It sounds like its a bit of a tight rope walk, which I don't really expect from the BKs. Currently, I am around 3 o'clock on the T-Stat,. which I considered low on my Sirocco. The Cat is pegged right at the highest end of silver paint on the dial  (4 o'clock) but I can set my hand on my single wall stove pipe about 3 feet from the collar. So the cat is on the high side of what I feel like I'd want, but the flu gas is too low, so which way do I go? Also, the condensation issue is back. BKs aren't supposed to be finicky, so I am scratching my head a bit here.


----------



## stoveliker

Do you have a flue probe? 
A flue probe is most useful to keep the exhaust hot enough.

Is it double wall pipe from stove to thimble?


----------



## Kwehme09

stoveliker said:


> Do you have a flue probe?
> A flue probe is most useful to keep the exhaust hot enough.
> 
> Is it double wall pipe from stove to thimble?



No probe. just a useless magnet one. Single wall pipe, so being able to set my hand on it is a pretty good indicator that it is too cool. But again, cat is way hotter than I am used to.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes that indicates too cool a flue. (And the cat is normal for a new cat. It will settle down over time.)

I do think that you need.to increase your flue temp. Condensing water (and every pound of perfectly dry wood burned (completely) gives about half a pound of water!) is the perfect trap for smoke particles. And those should go out of.the chimney.

Given that you run it cool, it is highly advised to change the single wall into double wall pipe. It'll keep the heat better. And then to add a flue probe.


----------



## Tar12

stoveliker said:


> Yes that indicates too cool a flue. (And the cat is normal for a new cat. It will settle down over time.)
> 
> I do think that you need.to increase your flue temp. Condensing water (and every pound of perfectly dry wood burned (completely) gives about half a pound of water!) is the perfect trap for smoke particles. And those should go out of.the chimney.
> 
> Given that you run it cool, it is highly advised to change the single wall into double wall pipe. It'll keep the heat better. And then to add a flue probe.


^This^


----------



## Larch

Kwehme09 said:


> Ok. It sounds like its a bit of a tight rope walk, which I don't really expect from the BKs. Currently, I am around 3 o'clock on the T-Stat,. which I considered low on my Sirocco. The Cat is pegged right at the highest end of silver paint on the dial  (4 o'clock) but I can set my hand on my single wall stove pipe about 3 feet from the collar. So the cat is on the high side of what I feel like I'd want, but the flu gas is too low, so which way do I go? Also, the condensation issue is back. BKs aren't supposed to be finicky, so I am scratching my head a bit here.


When I first received my sirocco 30.2  I had trouble with condensation inside house running down the pipe  and thimble and outside wall T. It's not supposed to find its way out but it sure did. I  added double wall pipe and it almost fixed it, then I bought a  mono meter which lead me to buy a pipe damper and was able to do better high burn reloads and now everything is perfect, no moisture anymore inside pipe or out. I think in the wrong setup like mine they can be very finicky but solvable


----------



## stoveliker

While I'm glad you have solved some issues, I'm not sure a pipe damper is related to "no more moisture", as a pipe damper often decreases the temperature in the flue. (In my understanding, too high draft pulls air too fast into the flue, so it is less able to give its heat to the surroundings, leading to high flue temps. A damper changes the latter, and thus the former.)


----------



## Larch

stoveliker said:


> While I'm glad you have solved some issues, I'm not sure a pipe damper is related to "no more moisture", as a pipe damper often decreases the temperature in the flue. (In my understanding, too high draft pulls air too fast into the flue, so it is less able to give its heat to the surroundings, leading to high flue temps. A damper changes the latter, and thus the former.)


I was shutting it down to early from full burn do to over temp pipe and cumbuster,  and the rest of the long burn had to much moisture still.


----------



## ratsrepus

Larch said:


> I was shutting it down to early from full burn do to over temp pipe and cumbuster,  and the rest of the long burn had to much moisture still.


wow. with all due respect I think you need to go to blaze king school. I've never heard of what your describing. Something isn't right here


----------



## stoveliker

I think the story is he had overdraft, leading to high flue temps (I think the cat high temp was simply the new cat syndrome). He added a damper and solved the high flue temp.

And he claims that the moisture he didn't cook out of the fuel (due to early dialing down) lead to water condensing.

Makes some sense to me (especially if the wood was not perfectly dry).


----------



## ratsrepus

stoveliker said:


> I think the story is he had overdraft, leading to high flue temps (I think the cat high temp was simply the new cat syndrome). He added a damper and solved the high flue temp.
> 
> And he claims that the moisture he didn't cook out of the fuel (due to early dialing down) lead to water condensing.
> 
> Makes some sense to me (especially if the wood was not perfectly dry).


that my thought too.  but the visible moisture bothers me.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes. I think wet wood, and cold spots in the flue contribute here.


----------



## Nealm66

So 29 degrees this am warming up to 52 today ( beautiful! )  so I just threw in some small uglies this am. This is (maybe) the first time in two seasons ( I think ) I have it figured lol. Any bets?


----------



## Highbeam

Nealm66 said:


> So 29 degrees this am warming up to 52 today ( beautiful! )  so I just threw in some small uglies this am. This is (maybe) the first time in two seasons ( I think ) I have it figured lol. Any bets?


I mowed the lawn yesterday!

This time of year with warmer days and cold nights I have found the most success with matching that demand with the stove. So I load in the evening and the fire hopefully burns out before the next day’s warm up.


----------



## ratsrepus

Nealm66 said:


> So 29 degrees this am warming up to 52 today ( beautiful! )  so I just threw in some small uglies this am. This is (maybe) the first time in two seasons ( I think ) I have it figured lol. Any bets?


yep, good time to get rid of all the small, twisted, knotty pieces that you keep throwing back in the pile when filling the wood cart


----------



## ratsrepus

55 here in sunny SE Michigan but going down hill fast.  took some down time and  cleaned the ashes out and did a glass job


----------



## Ashful

Tar12 said:


> Thats unfortunate..lol


Nah.  The beta program is done, but BKVP tells me you can buy it (or some derivative of it) now, as the "V3" cat.  I haven't seen it for sale anywhere myself, but it's apparently available.


----------



## bikedennis

During a slow burn (thermostat @ 3 oclock), I looked at the cat thermometer and it's right on the line between active and inactive.  New Sirocco 30.2 this winter. Wood <20% MC.  I opened the bypass and thermostat to high and thermostat went to active.  Haven't noticed this before. Is this normal?


----------



## ratsrepus

might not have charred  the wood enough initially. if you were right at the active line, no need to open the bypass, pour the air to it.


----------



## Ashful

bikedennis said:


> During a slow burn (thermostat @ 3 oclock), I looked at the cat thermometer and it's right on the line between active and inactive.  New Sirocco 30.2 this winter. Wood <20% MC.  I opened the bypass and thermostat to high and thermostat went to active.  Haven't noticed this before. Is this normal?


Could be that wood is wetter than you believe, or that the cat is old and worn out (> 3-4 years), or as rats said, you didn't run on high the recommended 20-30 minutes before turning down... or it could just be normal cat stall.  The BK's are set up such that you can shut them down to where the thermostat is completely defeated, and on many (most?) chimney setups, this can put you into a stall.  This is more likely as temperatures get warmer, and draft is reduced.

Take a piece of colorful tape, cut a small triangle from it, and stick it on the mark where you were running your thermostat.  This will be your reference point to watch for future stalls, either choosing to always stay above it, or to watch the stove for similar behavior each time you go back to it.

Do note that, if you use PVC electrical tape, and if someday you forget to close the thermostat for an hour, leaving the stove run wide-open, it may get hot enough to curl the tape.  DAMHIKT, but don't worry, the tape won't fall off.


----------



## kennyp2339

bikedennis said:


> During a slow burn (thermostat @ 3 oclock), I looked at the cat thermometer and it's right on the line between active and inactive. New Sirocco 30.2 this winter. Wood <20% MC. I opened the bypass and thermostat to high and thermostat went to active. Haven't noticed this before. Is this normal?


Might be time to vacuum the cat, also pull the cat probe and make sure junk hasnt accumulated onto the metal rod, also for the future, no need to open the by-pass when on the line, just turn the heat up.
Im with @Ashful, perhaps the wood isnt as dry as you think it is, these stoves function best between 15-18% moisture content.


----------



## kennyp2339

Crazy weather here, 55deg yesterday, today 10" of snow with blizzard like conditions, low temp tonight is in the low teens. I re-filled my inside garage rack on Thursday, all ash splits, this will be a good test to see how the ash does burning at a higher rate, hopefully the results are near red oak as far as heat, I'm thinking I'll lose some burn time when cranked to 3 o'clock on the T-stat though.


----------



## Captain Caveman

Well, after 5-6 long years of waiting for just the right time (having the $5800 to spare for an insert), Today was the day my new Ashford 25 got installed in the family room of my house. HooRay! Special thanks to J & O fireplaces in Dunncansville Pennsylvania!


----------



## stoveliker

Welcome to the club! Let us know how it's going. Burn times, other things, or issues you have.


----------



## Nealm66

Man that looks good


----------



## Captain Caveman

I Will certainly keep you guys posted. And I'm sure I will have questions. But hello and Thanks everyone.


----------



## Diabel

Is it just me or the pic. How long is the hearth from the door to the stone edge?


----------



## stoveliker

Diabel said:


> Is it just me or the pic. How long is the hearth from the door to the stone edge?



The BK poker is there, so you can measure


----------



## Diabel

stoveliker said:


> The BK poker is there, so you can measure


Nice and quick. All good I guess. 😜


----------



## stoveliker

So I left for a work trip Sunday at 6.45 am. I had planned things fairly well, only slightly too much coals in there when I reloaded. 

Reloaded with red oak, had prepared a load to fit properly (square and matching angled pieces etc), stuffed it to the gills.

The wife texted me this morning at 9 am their time that it's still chugging away with the cat around 1/3 into the active range. That's 27 hrs and counting.


----------



## Ashful

No surprise.  I wasn't fibbing, when I claimed mine routinely stay active cat beyond 30 hours.

So, what's the diff between a 30.1 and a 30.2?  I wasn't frequenting the forums when the x.2's rolled out.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> No surprise.  I wasn't fibbing, when I claimed mine routinely stay active cat beyond 30 hours.
> 
> So, what's the diff between a 30.1 and a 30.2?  I wasn't frequenting the forums when the x.2's rolled out.



I have no idea what the difference is. That's a question for Chris.

The end of the burn (as in when the cat fell out of the active range) was between 32 and 35 hrs (the uncertainty because the wife is not as obsessed as I am,.and the stove being in the basement).

This was with the Tstat on 2.30 (range is from 1 to 6 ). So I could have gone longer, as the cat gauge was beyond 1/3 into the active range for at least 3/4 of that time. But heat needs (and basement stove) dictated this setting.

Oh, and I was confused by "fibbing". What did you do with a focused in beam?! 
...never mind..


----------



## snobuilder

Captain Caveman said:


> Well, after 5-6 long years of waiting for just the right time (having the $5800 to spare for an insert), Today was the day my new Ashford 25 got installed in the family room of my house. HooRay! Special thanks to J & O fireplaces in Dunncansville Pennsylvania!
> 
> View attachment 293470


In the pic, on the left....are those the manuals I was suppose to study when I first set out to own and operate my 2020 standards wood stove?🤣


----------



## Ashful

stoveliker said:


> Oh, and I was confused by "fibbing". What did you do with a focused in beam?!
> ...never mind..


I'd expect a New Yorker to be familiar enough with Philly slang.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> I'd expect a New Yorker to be familiar enough with Philly slang.



I live on LI, but am more of a Tennessean than NY-er... Didn't grow up this side of the ocean, but lived longer in TN than here.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Ashful said:


> I'd expect a New Yorker to be familiar enough with Philly slang.



“Fib” is a good old English word on both sides of the Atlantic.  It’s been around since before the thirteen colonies, and as a southerner, I can certainly attest to its common usage in parts of the United States that aren’t Philly (where I’ve only had occasion to visit twice).    It tends to be associated with what are seen as inconsequential or childish tales, perhaps why @stoveliker wouldn’t have encountered it too much as an adult.


----------



## Poindexter

Fib = Lie.  Ashful wasn't lying when he said ___.

The one that got me, traveling a lot, was the eastern PA use of "yet."  If someone from there asked if Radio Shack was carrying vacuum tubes for electronics yet? most in the USA would understand better if they had instead asked  "Does Radio Shack still carry vacuum tubes?"

The most linguistically diverse place I have been was Boston, I was at the Brigham for 9 months in I think 2003.  Figuring out north shore from south shore from the inland rabble (sorry) took about two months, after 9 months I could pretty much guess which township on the south shore my patients were hailing from.

FWIW the most common reason my patient's have moved to Alaska is 'running from the law,' apropos of nothing of course, but linguistic diversity , I find, west of the Mississippi is more about not blended yet, where diversity east of the Mississippi is more often not going to blend.

And my stove is running great.  I loaded the last of my dry spruce about 30 minutes ago.  I do have 2 cords of dry birch ready to cook on, and seven cords of green spruce stacked for Sep 22.  Five above now, if I find my wife in neck to ankle fleece I will likely burn some birch this spring.


----------



## Ashful

Poindexter said:


> The one that got me, traveling a lot, was the eastern PA use of "yet."


My wife's from western PA, I'm from the eastern edge of the state.  We damn near speak different languages.    

I might drink an occasional soda, but she drinks pop.  I think the roads are slippery when it snows, but she knows they're "slippy".  I think the car needs to be washed, but she just says the car needs washed.  And when for lunch, I'll have a hoagie, she asks to have a bite of my sub.

But we both agree on one thing, these two Ashford 30's are some of the best money we ever spent.


----------



## snobuilder

In WI  besides ending our sentence with "yet"  we also use "or no"...as in "Are yous coming along. Or no?"


----------



## Ashful

snobuilder said:


> In WI  besides ending our sentence with "yet"  we also use "or no"...as in "Are yous coming along. Or no?"


Interesting.  That's a Swabish thing, as in the province surrounding Stuttgart, Germany.  They love to end every sentence (in German or English), with "or no?"  The rest of Germany makes fun of them for this habit, the way the rest of the country might pick on New Jersey for saying "you'se guys".

So, was your area of WI settled by a bunch of southwestern Germans?


----------



## snobuilder

Ashful said:


> Interesting.  That's a Swabish thing, as in the province surrounding Stuttgart, Germany.  They love to end every sentence (in German or English), with "or no?"  The rest of Germany makes fun of them for this habit, the way the rest of the country might pick on New Jersey for saying "you'se guys".
> 
> So, was your area of WI settled by a bunch of southwestern Germans?


Yes, Poles and Italian as well
MKE Has some great examples of their craftsmanship in the building trades.


----------



## snobuilder

My SIL is from the west coast and spent 22 years in the army around the world. He busted us on our "unknown" speech patterns.


----------



## kennyp2339

Weather and draft, yesterday I experienced some adverse draft issues which totally changed my burn, its just fun to report. So last Sunday when I got home from work it was literally 14deg f with a stiff north west wind, I reloaded the stove, kept the t stat air control at 2:30, closed (1) pipe damper and went to bed, the typical burn rate on the cat probe will settle between noon and 2 o'clock with low flames in the firebox, I get about 12 hours of good heat, especially when the blower is on low / medium setting.
So yesterday was a damp raw day, I lit the stove and it was 44deg with light rain, typical ash kindling to larger ash splits, the load caught like normal, maybe a little sluggish and I added a few more ash splits, I then turned the air control to 2:30 with a closed by-pass but left the pipe damper all the way open, (I was working from home) about an hour later I decided to check on the fire, no flames in the firebox, but the cat probe was pegged at 4pm and the orange glow was coming into the firebox, the outside air was pretty heavy, more or less the temp outside was 45, with drizzle and fog, I suspect that my draft was right at the BK minimum and my cat was eating smoke very well, looking at the chimney outside, it didnt even look like I had a fire going, just amazing to me.


----------



## stoveliker

Wow. Systems differ. I never have flames at 2.30 on the Tstat.


----------



## stoveliker

So, it seems that my last fire was that 32-35 hr one last Sunday. Weather forecast has one 37 F night Tuesday. Not long enough below 40 to start the stove.

But, I need to do my "crisp it up" end of season high burn so I can brush the creosote out of the box. I'll do that Tuesday (and again later if I do need the stove one more time).

I have this wifi plug that I use for my inline fan that brings cold LR air into the basement where the stove is. It uses 26 W. And the plug allows.me to read how much energy it has used in total. 49 kWh. So that translates to about 1900 hrs on my cat this winter (and I proved -to myself as no one else cares...- that I can do this comfortably without using oil, so this was for a full winter). 

That plug and fan is a handy way to keep track of cat lifetime for intermittent burning without having to write things down each burn...


----------



## ajzzara

Hey guys, hope you are all having a good weekend so far. I have a BK sirocco insert. I am wondering if there is a way/or if I even need to get the cat thermometer calibrated.  When the stove is stone cold before I light a fire the needle is already half way to the active cat zone. I have attached a pic.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## AstroBoy

Captain Caveman said:


> Well, after 5-6 long years of waiting for just the right time (having the $5800 to spare for an insert), Today was the day my new Ashford 25 got installed in the family room of my house. HooRay! Special thanks to J & O fireplaces in Dunncansville Pennsylvania!


@Captain Caveman it looks really nice!  Was that your full, installed price for this unit?


----------



## kennyp2339

38 deg f and rain, loving the low and slow progression of spring, 72 inside and just comfortable, running a black box w/ low glow cat.


----------



## Ashful

kennyp2339 said:


> 38 deg f and rain, loving the low and slow progression of spring, 72 inside and just comfortable, running a black box w/ low glow cat.


Ditto.  You're actually about 80mi NE of me, so it's a much nicer 39F and rain, here.   

77F according to the thermometer on my desk, but I believe it reads a tad warm.


----------



## kennyp2339

Getting closer and closer to the end of the season, I was looking at my garage rack last night and thinking I dont have enough to make it to the end of the week, but it maybe to much to refill it for the end of the season, so I'm just going to bring in a wheel barrel load at a time from my ugly rack and ride out the final couple weeks. I'm more inclined to fill my woodshed back up sooner then later and just get that job done, I think I'll need to bring up about 3 cords or so. 
All in all, its been one of those seasons where I knew it was a colder winter, it just seems so distant since we never got any note worthy snow storms up here, a lot of 3" snows and (1) 8" storm which equates to a very light winter for my area. I'm thinking brush fire season is going to be a busy one in my area.


----------



## snobuilder

kennyp2339 said:


> Getting closer and closer to the end of the season, I was looking at my garage rack last night and thinking I dont have enough to make it to the end of the week, but it maybe to much to refill it for the end of the season, so I'm just going to bring in a wheel barrel load at a time from my ugly rack and ride out the final couple weeks. I'm more inclined to fill my woodshed back up sooner then later and just get that job done, I think I'll need to bring up about 3 cords or so.
> All in all, its been one of those seasons where I knew it was a colder winter, it just seems so distant since we never got any note worthy snow storms up here, a lot of 3" snows and (1) 8" storm which equates to a very light winter for my area. I'm thinking brush fire season is going to be a busy one in my area.


We are having  an extended heating season as well in WI. 16F currently. 
I am tapping into another bin that I thought wouldn't be used till next season.


----------



## Ashful

Spring last week, now winter is back today. 21F this morning, and a high of 31F with strong wind this afternoon.  Heck, I was mowing the lawn two days ago.


----------



## stoveliker

Last burning run of the season I think; Friday 60 or so forecast. But yesterday afternoon I started the stove again on some scraps from a project. Loaded with oak for overnight. 25 F this morning, not reaching above freezing today and 25 forecast for the night again. 

Keeping some pine splits for my hot "crisp it up" end of season fire.


----------



## Ashful

No end in sight, here.  The stone in the oldest wing of our house sums to almost exactly 1 million pounds, based on some rough calculations based on the assumed density of the stone types used in its construction.  It's great for keeping us warm thru cool autumn nights, after summer's heat and sun gets it all warmed up, like a giant masonry heater.  But on the flip side, I often have need for some amount of heating into early June, while the stone remains cold from the prior winter.  It's rare I call it quits before May, even on warmer years, unless from just being tired of the whole routine.


----------



## begreen

ajzzara said:


> Hey guys, hope you are all having a good weekend so far. I have a BK sirocco insert. I am wondering if there is a way/or if I even need to get the cat thermometer calibrated.  When the stove is stone cold before I light a fire the needle is already half way to the active cat zone. I have attached a pic.  Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 293769


Did you check with BK support on this? It's just a relative indicator, so this may not be that important.


----------



## Ashful

begreen said:


> Did you check with BK support on this? It's just a relative indicator, so this may not be that important.


It should cross into the red around 500F, but I've never seen any calibration procedure mentioned here for the insert thermometers.  For the free-standing version, there's a  mark to which you align the needle at 70F, as the means of calibration.  But I see no such mark in this area on your insert thermometer.


----------



## Highbeam

ajzzara said:


> Hey guys, hope you are all having a good weekend so far. I have a BK sirocco insert. I am wondering if there is a way/or if I even need to get the cat thermometer calibrated.  When the stove is stone cold before I light a fire the needle is already half way to the active cat zone. I have attached a pic.  Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 293769



I believe that on this model the meter is remote and operates through some sort of wired system to provide on/off function like an idiot light. Regardless, the only thing it's good for is to determine when to close the bypass when it crosses the line.


----------



## RockyMtMan

Been a good season with our new Ashford.  I am sure we are not quite done yet, we always seem to get some cold weather before May gets here, but I have been slowing down my burns already.  I can't believe the difference in this stove from my old one.  I can actually comfortably heat my house with only wood.  I love it  I have been having a great time watching this site and learning so much.  Thanks for all the great information.  I will keep watching and will be looking forward to next years burning.


----------



## Nealm66

I’m right there with you. Right in a tough spot for wether to have a fire or let the heat pump do it’s thing.


----------



## begreen

Nealm66 said:


> I’m right there with you. Right in a tough spot for wether to have a fire or let the heat pump do it’s thing.


With 55-60º days we've been running the heat pump. Wood stash is getting low so I am saving it for colder days.


----------



## Captain Caveman

AstroBoy said:


> @Captain Caveman it looks really nice!  Was that your full, installed price for this unit?


Install was an additional $750 parts and labour.


----------



## kennyp2339

38 and a white rain day, lit the stove last night and now on its 2nd full load (packed to the brim) mtn tops got dusted with snow, thankfully in the valley we are just big rain drops, still a raw chilly day though.


----------



## Hoytman

Have any of you long time BK users experimented with fuel load direction and fuel size and noticed whether or not it makes a difference in burn time?

I’ve noticed many use smaller splits and load only north south. Looks like some larger pieces could fit E/W in the bottom of those deep King and Princess stoves, then load the rest N/S. I’m sure some of you have tried that. I’m interested in your results.


----------



## Hoytman

BKVP said:


> Respectfully,  it's not solely at cat vs non cat issue.  It's a thermostat versus manual damper influence for those quoted burn times.


I would like to see some elaboration of this statement by @BKVP. I think it would be interesting.


----------



## ajzzara

Highbeam said:


> I believe that on this model the meter is remote and operates through some sort of wired system to provide on/off function like an idiot light. Regardless, the only thing it's good for is to determine when to close the bypass when it crosses the line.


Thanks for the responses @begreen @Ashful @Highbeam. I spoke to BK support, and as suggested it is just an indicator. I appreciate the help. I am getting short burn times, and I know it’s my wood. That said, I am  a worrier, and l although I am almost certain the wood is the issue, I am always looking for a way to monitor the stove to ensure it’s preforming as it should or if I will always be stuck with short burns. This was my first winter with the insert, and I am new to burning in general. I have 2 cords css which should be perfect for next fall. I am sure I will have a better experience then.


----------



## Hoytman

@BKVP, or anyone else ... 

Couple of questions.

1. Is minimum chimney height measured from top of stove to top of chimney, or bottom of firebox floor to top of chimney?

2.  What are low/high draft parameters in inches of WC for King and Princess? 

Obviously King is 8” exhaust and Princess is 6” exhaust.  I’ve seen posts here indicate -.06”WC is maximum, but I haven’t seen any numbers mentioned for the minimum. 

I would be interested seeing the low draft number in “WC for a 8” chimney 15 tall on. King. 

Just trying to compare how a King or Princess would draft for me. I can provide manometer readings for my low burns with my stove, but fuel is different.


----------



## Hoytman

ajzzara said:


> Thanks for the responses @begreen @Ashful @Highbeam. I spoke to BK support, and as suggested it is just an indicator. I appreciate the help. I am getting short burn times, and I know it’s my wood. That said, I am  a worrier, and l although I am almost certain the wood is the issue, I am always looking for a way to monitor the stove to ensure it’s preforming as it should or if I will always be stuck with short burns. This was my first winter with the insert, and I am new to burning in general. I have 2 cords css which should be perfect for next fall. I am sure I will have a better experience then.


You will gain more and more experience with each year with your stove. Glad you have some wood CSS’d already. Now is the time to add to that. Get ahead if you can. Gather as many cords as possible. The longer it is CSS the better off you will be. Seriously, get 2-6 more cords ahead if at all possible. You won’t be sorry!


----------



## kennyp2339

Hoytman said:


> @BKVP, or anyone else ...
> 
> Couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Is minimum chimney height measured from top of stove to top of chimney, or bottom of firebox floor to top of chimney?
> 
> 2.  What are low/high draft parameters in inches of WC for King and Princess?
> 
> Obviously King is 8” exhaust and Princess is 6” exhaust.  I’ve seen posts here indicate -.06”WC is maximum, but I haven’t seen any numbers mentioned for the minimum.
> 
> I would be interested seeing the low draft number in “WC for a 8” chimney 15 tall on. King.
> 
> Just trying to compare how a King or Princess would draft for me. I can provide manometer readings for my low burns with my stove, but fuel is different.


If you get to low, you will stall and then have to burn hotter, I've found on my princess at .06-.08wc I operate stable and fairly normal, I've never checked what I was when operating in black box mode, just happy it works and provide 24hr burns per load.


----------



## stoveliker

Hoytman said:


> @BKVP, or anyone else ...
> 
> Couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Is minimum chimney height measured from top of stove to top of chimney, or bottom of firebox floor to top of chimney?
> 
> 2.  What are low/high draft parameters in inches of WC for King and Princess?
> 
> Obviously King is 8” exhaust and Princess is 6” exhaust.  I’ve seen posts here indicate -.06”WC is maximum, but I haven’t seen any numbers mentioned for the minimum.
> 
> I would be interested seeing the low draft number in “WC for a 8” chimney 15 tall on. King.
> 
> Just trying to compare how a King or Princess would draft for me. I can provide manometer readings for my low burns with my stove, but fuel is different.



@#1: from the stove top, per the manual.


----------



## Hoytman

kennyp2339 said:


> If you get to low, you will stall and then have to burn hotter, I've found on my princess at .06-.08wc I operate stable and fairly normal, I've never checked what I was when operating in black box mode, just happy it works and provide 24hr burns per load.


That’s what I’m looking for, black box mode low manometer reading. 

I suppose I am thinking they have a “known” minimum at the lowest burn. Just trying to see if my chimney will match minimum with having to modify it.


----------



## Hoytman

stoveliker said:


> @#1: from the stove top, per the manual.


Didn’t see that. Must have missed it. 

I did see what I thought was a discrepancy of 2 ft of stove pipe before horizontal into the chimney in one place and 3 ft before horizontal in another, but I’ll be double checking that.


----------



## stoveliker

Hoytman said:


> Didn’t see that. Must have missed it. I did see what I thought was a discrepancy of 2 ft of stove pipe before horizontal in one ☝️ lace and 3 ft before horizontal in another, but I’ll be double checking that.


I believe 2 ft there is the minimum, 3 ft recommended.


----------



## stoveliker

So, I want to buy a spare cat and a roll of (Interam) gasket material this summer. Not that I need it, but I like to have a spare.

I can find the BK part number of the cat (S.CAT203032), but not the dimensions. Other websites list other part numbers. 

As I don't have a gasket, I don't want to pull out my cat - and I don't know the depth of the cat (length of the channels) without pulling out the cat.

So, can anyone confirm 10.5"x4"x2" for a Chinook 30.2?

Then I can try to find where the best place is to buy this stuff. (A steel one, as it originally came with, as I don't have fly ash clogging issues, and I like how fast it lights off).


----------



## logfarmer

Hoytman said:


> Didn’t see that. Must have missed it.
> 
> I did see what I thought was a discrepancy of 2 ft of stove pipe before horizontal into the chimney in one place and 3 ft before horizontal in another, but I’ll be double checking that.


Hoytman as you see they say “2’ minimum”, but as YOU know my king only has 19” of rise before the 90* elbow and works great 🤗.


----------



## lsucet

Hoytman said:


> That’s what I’m looking for, black box mode low manometer reading.
> 
> I suppose I am thinking they have a “known” minimum at the lowest burn. Just trying to see if my chimney will match minimum with having to modify it.


Draft measurements are when a load is burning steady on high. Bypass closed and air all the way open. 
With a black box, there is no point of measure the draft. Just find the settings where  the cat doesn't stall. On high the ideal draft is around -0.05 to -0.06.  Take into account, that outside temperatures can swing draft up or down. It is just a ballpark.


----------



## Ashful

stoveliker said:


> So, I want to buy a spare cat and a roll of (Interam) gasket material this summer. Not that I need it, but I like to have a spare.
> 
> I can find the BK part number of the cat (S.CAT203032), but not the dimensions. Other websites list other part numbers.
> 
> As I don't have a gasket, I don't want to pull out my cat - and I don't know the depth of the cat (length of the channels) without pulling out the cat.
> 
> So, can anyone confirm 10.5"x4"x2" for a Chinook 30.2?
> 
> Then I can try to find where the best place is to buy this stuff. (A steel one, as it originally came with, as I don't have fly ash clogging issues, and I like how fast it lights off).


I believe this is the one most here are using, link below.  For gasket, you'll want 30" of 2 x 1/16 inch gasket, each time you remove the cat for cleaning or inspection.  I just buy 10-20 feet at a time, as the material is cheaper than the shipping.









						FireCat Catalytic Combustor ACI-63M
					

Use the FireCat Catalytic Combustor ACI-63M for the following stove models:  Blaze King - Sirocco 20 SC20, Sirocco 30 SC30, Chinook 20 CK20F, Chinook 30 CK24F/CK24C, Ashford 20 AF20, Ashford 30 AF30



					www.firecatcombustors.com


----------



## kennyp2339

Weather is crap again, fired up the princess, first batch of wood is being burnt like its 20 deg outside, letting the basement soak up the heat, 2nd load will be burnt for a long haul, inside upstairs temp is about 66 atm, 45deg outside, the stove has been cold since Sundays rainy day firing. On a side note, this is the end of the second season on my cat, stove probe still fires up to 2-3 o'clock and holds steady, burning a mix of ash, cherry and walnut.


----------



## Ashful

I've actually picked back up on running BOTH stoves, from having been getting a bit lazy on keeping the second one going over the last several weeks.  I guess I got my second wind.


----------



## BKVP

Weather forecast for Walla Walla,  high tomorrow 71F....Sunday forecast, rain/snow mix....


----------



## Ashful

BKVP said:


> Weather forecast for Walla Walla,  high tomorrow 71F....Sunday forecast, rain/snow mix....


Ours was similar two weekends ago.  Saturday, beautiful... outside mulching gardens in short sleeves.  Sunday I was mowing the lawn, in snow showers.


----------



## stoveliker

50 F and rainy, grey, foggy here. Minisplit is providing the heat, chewing away the combined 61 kWhs I made on the second and fourth when it was nice and sunny.


----------



## kennyp2339

Got teased w/ temps in the mid 70's for 2 days in a row, its cooled off some but not enough for a fire, I'm thinking I may only have 2 or 3 fires left to make for the rest of the season, I'll be lighting the stove back up tomorrow night thru Monday since it will be damp and cool, beyond that is anyone's guess.
Wednesday, I cleaned the garage out, swept all the wood crumbs from my rack, took the rack and moved it along the one wall for summer storage, if I need to burn the plan from here on out is to just bring in a couple arm fulls of splits as needed.
Going to take my needless BK addiction and transfer that energy to the lawn and gardens since they are just starting to wake up. I'll do my routine chimney cleaning mid-May when I'm sure I'm done with the stove. It was a fun stove season again here, and like the year before, I've burnt less, house stayed warm and the winter was pretty straight forward with cold.


----------



## Diabel

Low 50s here. Will definitely be burning in the Princess this weekend. Will be trying the small loads on high in order to burn off the gunk.

In the city stove enjoying morning fires. Sadly, these are the last few in the VC. The house sold and the stove stays. The new owner will be removing the stove and replacing it with NG fireplace unit.


----------



## begreen

The northwest is just coming out of the coldest mid-April on record. We've been chewing through wood. There is just one more wood box load of wood left in the shed. Time to warm up.


----------



## Nealm66

Perfect princess weather!


----------



## BKVP

Or King....slowly digesting well-seasoned fuel.  BK owner's know this is perfect weather...I wish my asparagus had not broken through early!


----------



## begreen

Or American Standard, Mitsubishi, Daikin, et al.  With next week's temps finally warming up about 10º we'll be burning electrons. Outdoor body heat will be coming from loading the wood shed.


----------



## BKVP

begreen said:


> Or American Standard, Mitsubishi, Daikin, et al.  With next week's temps finally warming up about 10º we'll be burning electrons. Outdoor body heat will be coming from loading the wood shed.


You ever walk outside, gaze upon the incredible feeling you get from harvesting cords of firewood and the tremendous labor involved...you never hurt but rather feel a huge sense of both accomplishment and providing for your family.  I suspect that feeling doesn't exist with any other method of heating.  And in my King, I'm not too worried about chewing through my wood.

Off to Alaska next, not too warm there! But lots of stuff going on there! @Poindexter take note.


----------



## bikedennis

All the work involved in felling,  bucking,  loading,  splitting,  stacking, and stove maintenance keeps me fit and mobile at 79 years.


----------



## Nealm66

BKVP said:


> You ever walk outside, gaze upon the incredible feeling you get from harvesting cords of firewood and the tremendous labor involved...you never hurt but rather feel a huge sense of both accomplishment and providing for your family.  I suspect that feeling doesn't exist with any other method of heating.  And in my King, I'm not too worried about chewing through my wood.
> 
> Off to Alaska next, not too warm there! But lots of stuff going on there! @Poindexter take note.


Safe travels to you


----------



## Ashful

bikedennis said:


> All the work involved in felling,  bucking,  loading,  splitting,  stacking, and stove maintenance keeps me fit and mobile at 79 years.


That's good to hear.  You have 30 years on me, and sometimes I feel like it's gonna put me in an early grave.


----------



## stoveliker

Ashful said:


> That's good to hear.  You have 30 years on me, and sometimes I feel like it's gonna put me in an early grave.



I think that's the difference between 15 and 4 cords...


----------



## kennyp2339

Ashful said:


> That's good to hear.  You have 30 years on me, and sometimes I feel like it's gonna put me in an early grave.


LOL its like having 3 or 4 drinks a week vs a 30 pack a day.


----------



## kennyp2339

Happy Easter; stove's re-lit and chugging along, 34 deg this morning, heavy spring frost. I preloaded the stove last night to make things easier.


----------



## BKVP

Happy Easter indeed!


----------



## begreen

Happy Easter. Same here, at 37º this morning the stove was lit and running.


----------



## Ashful

Happy Easter, folks.  Same here.  Short sleeves and edging gardens yesterday, followed by loading the stove this morning!


----------



## stoveliker

Happy Easter. 

Bright and sunny here, 54 F right now, 39 for the low early morning. The Mitsubishi gave us a bump with solar electrons, and the sunroom is now providing enough heat to the home to keep it comfortable.


----------



## BKVP

A bit chilly this morning.  I opened up the stove this morning thinking I'd load another 2-3 pieces.  Nope.  No room, still running on Saturday nights load!  I did see a bunch of elk yesterday on a short Blues Mountain hike!  All the bulls have shed....now just to locate them!


----------



## stoveliker

That's only 36 hrs or so, so for a King running low that was an avoidable miscalculation imo


----------



## Diabel

BKVP said:


> A bit chilly this morning.  I opened up the stove this morning thinking I'd load another 2-3 pieces.  Nope.  No room, still running on Saturday nights load!  I did see a bunch of elk yesterday on a short Blues Mountain hike!  All the bulls have shed....now just to locate them!


Very impressive Chris. 
Question. 
Chris do you as some here come spring run the stove on short/hot (fully open air, bypass closed) in order to burn all the gunk from the firebox?


----------



## kennyp2339

Diabel said:


> Very impressive Chris.
> Question.
> Chris do you as some here come spring run the stove on short/hot (fully open air, bypass closed) in order to burn all the gunk from the firebox?


I do that on my last few fires to remove the crud that forms on the plate sections as insurance for the next season


----------



## BKVP

Diabel said:


> Very impressive Chris.
> Question.
> Chris do you as some here come spring run the stove on short/hot (fully open air, bypass closed) in order to burn all the gunk from the firebox?


Yes, but not yet.  I am running the stove even when into the high 50's.  Our house holds the heat very well after so much work.  However, the wife asked for 12' ceilings (she got 10') but the house is large.  Since we do not live upstairs and rarely go upstairs. we have closed off the access and ceiling registers...but some heat still migrates upstairs. (It's way to warm up there!)

I will stop burning in another few weeks and then I will give the firebox a real hot burn (bypass closed) and then sweep the chimney.  If it's like years past, there won't be much accumulation.  That's the advantage of of the stove design, proper operation and most importantly my 3-5 year old Tamarack!


----------



## BKVP

And...as you know with your Princess, we don't measure how much wood to put in based upon how cold it will get.  We can load it to the gills and just set the thermostat to crock-pot mode.


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> And...as you know with your Princess, we don't measure how much wood to put in based upon how cold it will get.  We can load it to the gills and just set the thermostat to crock-pot mode.



I like that as a good analogy to explain how a  BK works: crock-pot mode. Keeper!


----------



## Diabel

BKVP said:


> Yes, but not yet.  I am running the stove even when into the high 50's.  Our house holds the heat very well after so much work.  However, the wife asked for 12' ceilings (she got 10') but the house is large.  Since we do not live upstairs and rarely go upstairs. we have closed off the access and ceiling registers...but some heat still migrates upstairs. (It's way to warm up there!)
> 
> I will stop burning in another few weeks and then I will give the firebox a real hot burn (bypass closed) and then sweep the chimney.  If it's like years past, there won't be much accumulation.  That's the advantage of of the stove design, proper operation and most importantly my 3-5 year old Tamarack!


Thank you 👍


----------



## kennyp2339

Oh wonderful - areas 1000ft or higher will have snow tonight from a nor'easter, better grab a couple arm fulls of wood.


----------



## Ashful

28F this morning, topping out in mid 40’s.  We are burning.


----------



## BKVP

On Sunday May 15th (late arrival ) ((7:00 p.m.)) I will be in  Lancaster PA for an industry event.  Anyone want a free drink at the Wyndam bar, just send me a PM and we can arrange a BK Roundtable (assuming tables are round!)


----------



## stoveliker

BKVP said:


> On Sunday May 15th (late arrival ) ((7:00 p.m.)) I will be in  Lancaster PA for an industry event.  Anyone want a free drink at the Wyndam bar, just send me a PM and we can arrange a BK Roundtable (assuming tables are round!)


d*mn I was there a few weeks ago. Not on May 15.

And square tables are fine for boxy BKs


----------



## Nealm66

I’m trying to imagine the conversation but keep getting a black screen ha ha!


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> On Sunday May 15th (late arrival ) ((7:00 p.m.)) I will be in  Lancaster PA for an industry event.  Anyone want a free drink at the Wyndam bar, just send me a PM and we can arrange a BK Roundtable (assuming tables are round!)


Let me help you out here.... when pronouncing the name of Lancaster, the locals call it Lankester (Lank-ess-tur) I'll come for a beer if you bring a version 3 cat for my princess.


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> Let me help you out here.... when pronouncing the name of Lancaster, the locals call it Lankester (Lank-ess-tur) I'll come for a beer if you bring a version 3 cat for my princess.


Thanks...I've been schooled on this pronunciation previously.   I don't know that I can snag a V3 from engineering...but the drink offer stands.


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> I’m trying to imagine the conversation but keep getting a black screen ha ha!


If we can get Ashful, it will be highly technical.   Too such a degree, multiple servings may be necessary.


----------



## Ashful

BKVP said:


> If we can get Ashful, it will be highly technical.   Too such a degree, multiple servings may be necessary.


I'll come if Kenny does!


----------



## Nealm66

Sounds like a good time actually.


----------



## BKVP

Saturday nights load about gone...cat almost inactive....


----------



## stoveliker

Is that pic with glowing fuel when your cat drops out of the active zone?
Mine drops out way later (as in a few coals left that I have to take to see them glowing). This is after about 2.5-3 cords thru the cat.


----------



## Nealm66

That’s awesome


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> Is that pic with glowing fuel when your cat drops out of the active zone?
> Mine drops out way later (as in a few coals left that I have to take to see them glowing). This is after about 2.5-3 cords thru the cat.


That is with door open, getting next load ready....once I beat it with a poker, it was 1" coals across floor of stove.


----------



## BKVP

Nealm66 said:


> Sounds like a good time actually.


If you offer it, they will come...


----------



## Ashful

kennyp2339 said:


> Let me help you out here.... when pronouncing the name of Lancaster, the locals call it Lankester (Lank-ess-tur) I'll come for a beer if you bring a version 3 cat for my princess.


The key is accenting the first syllable.  LANK-ess-tur.  You can always spot an out-of-towner when they say lan-KAST-err.


----------



## BKVP

Ashful said:


> The key is accenting the first syllable.  LANK-ess-tur.  You can always spot an out-of-towner when they say lan-KAST-err.


Or a Californian (Lancaster California)  The Amish set me straight years ago....


----------



## Ashful

Well, good thing you’re headed to the correct Lancaster.  I’m convinced there’s not a decent cocktail made in the entire state of California.

You’d be more likely to find ice cubes on asphalt at the equator, than a bottle of Angostura bitters or Carpano Formula Antica behind most bars in that state.    They seem to lack the basic ability and material to make anything other than  Daiquiri and Margaritas, and I can’t be caught drinking those in public.  😛


----------



## BKVP

It's official.  My King is out!  I will begin the search for fire wood when the mountain passes open (too much snow currently)

I'm may not travel in July so that I can get some exercise and have wood to stack!


----------



## begreen

Normally the passes are starting to clear out by now but this year they are still gaining a lot of snow. The crews trying to clear Hwy 20 have their work cut out for them. This is an avalanche chute they are clearing.



More shots here








						SR 20 North Cascades Highway clearing 2022
					

The spring clearing of SR 20 North Cascades began March 28 at the Early Winters campground east side closure.   	 	Every spring, crews clear the miles of snowbound highway and dozens of avalanche paths of Washington State's "North Cross".




					www.flickr.com


----------



## BKVP

Send those guys over here!  Then I could get started!!


----------



## Ashful

begreen said:


> This is an avalanche chute they are clearing.


Wow.  Just... wow.


----------



## Nealm66

Wind and rain squalls that come through still have a bite to them. Like they’re grabbing the cold off the snow covered hills


----------



## sprawlnstall

Weather starting to break in northern Minnesota, I let the fire burn out yesterday.  Lows of 19 degrees tomorrow.   With the fire out I cleaned out the ashes and was going to lightly brush the cat and check for fly ash.  Was quite surprised to see it crumbled.  This was a new cat this year.  I do run my stove hard but do not abuse it. I never once opened the door with the bypass in the wrong position and typically wait a few minutes before engaging it when reloading.  I got two years out of my previous cat.  May be time to try the droplet HT-3000 and movie the princess into the shop.  The cat seems to be working prior to letting the fire burn out I had a solid 12 hour burn.


----------



## moresnow

sprawlnstall said:


> Weather starting to break in northern Minnesota, I let the fire burn out yesterday.  Lows of 19 degrees tomorrow.   With the fire out I cleaned out the ashes and was going to lightly brush the cat and check for fly ash.  Was quite surprised to see it crumbled.  This was a new cat this year.  I do run my stove hard but do not abuse it. I never once opened the door with the bypass in the wrong position and typically wait a few minutes before engaging it when reloading.  I got two years out of my previous cat.  May be time to try the droplet HT-3000 and movie the princess into the shop.  The cat seems to be working prior to letting the fire burn out I had a solid 12 hour burn.
> 
> View attachment 295048


That's unfortunate. Believe I'd be giving the door and glass gaskets a close looksie. Hate to ask but do you have others loading the stove without you?


----------



## stoveliker

Have you seen that the flame shield is still preventing impingement of (primary) flame on the cat?


----------



## sprawlnstall

moresnow said:


> That's unfortunate. Believe I'd be giving the door and glass gaskets a close looksie. Hate to ask but do you have others loading the stove without you?


The door passes the dollar bill test, I will check the glass. Anything specific to look for?  Wood was extra dry this year so it is not a fuel issue.


----------



## sprawlnstall

stoveliker said:


> Have you seen that the flame shield is still preventing impingement of (primary) flame on the cat?


Not sure what you mean? the flame shield is on properly.  No one other than me operates the stove.


----------



## stoveliker

With very high draft I have seen flames go to the cat from the open triangles at the side. Ceramic cats crumble when flame impinge (not saying that all crumbling is due to impingement).


----------



## sprawlnstall

I suspect my draft is a bit on the strong side, and it did seem like we had a lot of high winds this winter. However My two previous cats did not crumble. I did burn a lot of dry pine this year, no other change in burning habits.


----------



## Ashful

Wow... just saw the photo.  Stoveliker already asked the first two questions that came to my mind.  Blowing the front off a ceramic cat like that is usually due to flame impingement.  Flame impingement is caused by one of a few things:

1.  Bad design.  However, we already have many Princess owners on this forum who can rule that out.

2.  Incorrectly installed or removed flame shield.

3.  High draft.  Given the way BK spec's these stoves, that might be any pipe taller than 10 or 15 feet, in your climate.

4.  Leaky door.  This seems unlikely, as I'd expect you'd to have reported your cat probe temp being too high, if that were the case.


----------



## sprawlnstall

I would imagine it would be hard to incorrectly install the flame shield.  My chimney is 22-23 feet tall.  It seems to draft well but I do need to keep the door cracked  for a few minutes to get a fire started from scratch.  I would really like to prevent his from happening again.  Is a steel cat susceptible to flame impingement also?


----------



## kennyp2339

sprawlnstall said:


> I would imagine it would be hard to incorrectly install the flame shield.  My chimney is 22-23 feet tall.  It seems to draft well but I do need to keep the door cracked  for a few minutes to get a fire started from scratch.  I would really like to prevent his from happening again.  Is a steel cat susceptible to flame impingement also?


Dont open the door when the by-pass is closed


----------



## stoveliker

sprawlnstall said:


> I would imagine it would be hard to incorrectly install the flame shield.  My chimney is 22-23 feet tall.  It seems to draft well but I do need to keep the door cracked  for a few minutes to get a fire started from scratch.  I would really like to prevent his from happening again.  Is a steel cat susceptible to flame impingement also?


My (steel) cat still looks fine, despite flames sometimes sucking in from the sides to the cat.
However, crumbling is the deterioration of the skeleton. Steel does not do that.
I can't say whether the washcoat containing the catalyst is affected. (My temperature/glowing does seem uniform, suggesting it's not affected. Yet?).


----------



## BKVP

Please check the glass gasket seal in the door frame.  Flame impingement doesn't usually take out a cordierite substrate in just a single season.  You cannot install the flame shield incorrectly or if you forced it you might, but 99.99% not the issue.

I'm leaning towards door rope or glass gasket.  Thermal shock can do some damage, but that would be caused by loading ice or snow laden fuel, unlikely given your experience of using the stove and participation on this site.

Where did you purchase the combustor that is damaged?

BKVP


----------



## sprawlnstall

BKVP said:


> Please check the glass gasket seal in the door frame.  Flame impingement doesn't usually take out a cordierite substrate in just a single season.  You cannot install the flame shield incorrectly or if you forced it you might, but 99.99% not the issue.
> 
> I'm leaning towards door rope or glass gasket.  Thermal shock can do some damage, but that would be caused by loading ice or snow laden fuel, unlikely given your experience of using the stove and participation on this site.
> 
> Where did you purchase the combustor that is damaged?
> 
> BKVP


The gasket was purchased from a local dealer near the mahnomen area.  The rope door and glass appear to be in good shape. What would a defect in the glass look like?


----------



## Ashful

sprawlnstall said:


> I would imagine it would be hard to incorrectly install the flame shield.  My chimney is 22-23 feet tall.  It seems to draft well but I do need to keep the door cracked  for a few minutes to get a fire started from scratch.  I would really like to prevent his from happening again.  Is a steel cat susceptible to flame impingement also?


Maybe on a Princess, but it's easy on the Ashford, as my dealer can attest.  They dropped off two Ashfords here in 2015, and one had the flame shield was installed backwards.  After looking at them both, I had a good guess as to which one was wrong, but had to actually go surfing online to confirm.

22 feet might create a fairly strong pull in your climate.  It's worth checking, if the glass gasket doesn't appear to be the issue.  My pipe is closer to 30 feet, but it was pulling 0.21" (4x ideal and 3.5x allowable maximum) in a much milder climate than yours.


----------



## BKVP

sprawlnstall said:


> The gasket was purchased from a local dealer near the mahnomen area.  The rope door and glass appear to be in good shape. What would a defect in the glass look like?


With fire out...open door.  Secure door between your knees.  Place one hand on each side of the glass.  Press hands towards one another.  Push back and forth, up and down.  Does the glass move?  Careful on the up movement to not lift door off hinge pins.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Thanks.  Looks like we may have  a warm up coming soon, Ill shut it down and inspect.  Even with a crumbled cat, it seems to be operating okay.  I don't think there is an air leak.  I turned my thermostat down this morning after loading,   firebox went from raging fire to a dull glow almost immediately.


----------



## BKVP

sprawlnstall said:


> Thanks.  Looks like we may have  a warm up coming soon, Ill shut it down and inspect.  Even with a crumbled cat, it seems to be operating okay.  I don't think there is an air leak.  I turned my thermostat down this morning after loading,   firebox went from raging fire to a dull glow almost immediately.


That means the thermostat is working, but a very small injection of room air could case that thermal shock.


----------



## kennyp2339

Here we go again, cherry & ash this time around


----------



## Dieselhead

kennyp2339 said:


> Here we go again, cherry & ash this time around


Same, I have done a few 4 log fires over the last couple weeks, when solar gain hasn’t got the house to a comfortable temp to carry us through the night. With this wind and temp overnight in the 30s we’re in BBM (Black box mode) over here.


----------



## Ashful

Never really stopped here.  I’ve had fires probably 6 of the last 7 nights.  Just loaded and lit a batch of red oak, albeit a half-full batch.


----------



## BettyHubbler

I had been lurking around this website for the last year and finally pulled the trigger after a lot of research and reading. I just want to thank everyone on these threads for their responses. My wife and I recently had our blaze king sirocco 25 insert installed and we couldn’t be happier. It was installed on maybe the last “cool enough” day of the season and it absolutely amazed us with how much heat it put out. Our existing masonry chimney already had a tremendous draft, and once an insulated liner (28’) was put into the mix this insert absolutely delivered as advertised! I put 5 small (and I mean small!) splits in it at 8pm and they burned until 3am with the cat engaged the whole time. This is just a thank you to everyone who posts on here that us lurkers are reading and taking it all in!

Roger


----------



## Nealm66

That’s a really good looking setup to boot


----------



## BettyHubbler

Nealm66 said:


> That’s a really good looking setup to boot


Thanks! The sirocco’s look was a major part of our initial decision when shopping, the efficiency made it a no-brainer for us. Really looking forward to the next cool season!


----------



## Nealm66

We’re still plenty cool enough to burn here. 24 hour reload weather keeping the house between 70-74. Not sure if the Sirocco can do the 24 hour burns? I guess it probably depends on the fuel. 12 hour reloads are the best I think anyways because of how quick. 24hr reloads sometimes takes a minute. Enjoy either way. Hopefully you’ve got some good dry wood for the next winter


----------



## spudman99

Good looking fireplace Betty.  Whereabout are you in SE PA (which County)?  Several nearby burners are here in this thread and can be of great assistance.

One thing I always preach is dry wood.  Hopefully you have 2-4 cords of wood already cut and suntanning right now.  Absolutely imperative that you have dry wood to get the 12 hour burns.  With my princess insert, I load around 8am, bake for 10 min, engage combustor and walk away.  Reload at 8pm.  Rinse and repeat.  Makes life simple and the heat keeps a comming.


----------



## BettyHubbler

Chester county. Plenty of wood dry and ready for next season! My house is surrounded by big beech trees and a few storms have helped me get nice stacks ready! Here’s just a small bit from recently… plenty more in other places stacked and ready to go from seasons past!


----------



## AstroBoy

BettyHubbler said:


> Chester county. Plenty of wood dry and ready for next season!



Nice!  I’m in Delaware County, and will be out stacking some wood today.  Waiting for a final quote on a BK Ashford insert and hope to be joining the club here soon.


----------



## Nealm66

Show some pics when you’re done


----------



## Ashful

AstroBoy said:


> Nice!  I’m in Delaware County, and will be out stacking some wood today.  Waiting for a final quote on a BK Ashford insert and hope to be joining the club here soon.


DelCo... home of Aunt Mary Pat... and Wawa.


----------



## sprawlnstall

BKVP said:


> With fire out...open door.  Secure door between your knees.  Place one hand on each side of the glass.  Press hands towards one another.  Push back and forth, up and down.  Does the glass move?  Careful on the up movement to not lift door off hinge pins.


I checked the glass out this weekend, it does not move whatsoever.  I'm not sure what to think, the door rope appears to be slightly worn.  How often should door rope be replaced?  The best I can do is replace the rope and try a Steel Cat.   Is there any chance I just got a bad ceramic cat, resulting in it falling apart?  I don't think this is the most likely answer.


----------



## BKVP

sprawlnstall said:


> I checked the glass out this weekend, it does not move whatsoever.  I'm not sure what to think, the door rope appears to be slightly worn.  How often should door rope be replaced?  The best I can do is replace the rope and try a Steel Cat.   Is there any chance I just got a bad ceramic cat, resulting in it falling apart?  I don't think this is the most likely answer.


You instincts are correct.   In my 27 years, I know of two combustors the supplier sent us that had no coatings....and it was intentional. It was used in R&D to gather baseline data.

The second was sent to OMNI test labs and used by them in combustor longevity testing.

If the rope gasket is leaking, it could explain why so much of the failure was center of combustor.

When you see failure spread evenly across the face, that tends to be from multiple causes, such as running the stove with door cracked open....


----------



## sprawlnstall

BKVP said:


> You instincts are correct.   In my 27 years, I know of two combustors the supplier sent us that had no coatings....and it was intentional. It was used in R&D to gather baseline data.
> 
> The second was sent to OMNI test labs and used by them in combustor longevity testing.
> 
> If the rope gasket is leaking, it could explain why so much of the failure was center of combustor.
> 
> When you see failure spread evenly across the face, that tends to be from multiple causes, such as running the stove with door cracked open....


Whenever the door is open the bypass lever is in the correct  position.  With the extreme temperature here I am forced to do a lot of hot reloads.  Generally I flip the bypass lever wait 2-3 minutes and open door to reload.  Typically I only wait about 30 seconds after a reload before engaging the cat again.


----------



## Ashful

sprawlnstall said:


> Whenever the door is open the bypass lever is in the correct  position.  With the extreme temperature here I am forced to do a lot of hot reloads.  Generally I flip the bypass lever wait 2-3 minutes and open door to reload.  Typically I only wait about 30 seconds after a reload before engaging the cat again.


That quick re-engage could be the problem, although I know BKVP has also previously claimed to a fast re-engagement.  I usually set a timer for 5 minutes after each reload, and wait that out (if not longer) before re-closing the bypass.  I'm coming to the end of season 4 on my present ceramic cat, at roughly 7 cords per season thru that stove, with no such cratering of the front face.

That said, I would have (and did) initially name the problem of flame impingement, more than thermal shock.


----------



## MCC

Greetings,
My wife and I just purchased a Princess 32.  I still have 6 weeks to "patiently" wait for delivery and installation.  I've wanted a stove for several years, but my wife and I couldn't agree on things.  I finally had a salesman come to our house and he was able to convince her.  I have 20 acres of EAB infected Ash to burn, so I should be set for wood for a good while.   I am really looking forward to good warm heat next year.
Dan


----------



## Ashful

Congratulations!  Get that ash split and stacked, if not already done.  Most will want 3 - 6 cords to feed a Princess all year, depending on how you run it.  Ash is one of the few woods that can be burned after one full summer of drying in open air, but if you have concerns, see Poindexter's clear plastic film solar kilns.


----------



## kennyp2339

Broke down last night and started burning again lol, outside temps dropped down to 42, misty rain day with a northeast wind, inside was down to 64 and the cat was shivering (I blame my little buddy for this) made a fire and the house went up to 70 overnight, not bad with a box loaded w/ cherry and ash, I'll keep the fire going today since its pretty windy and temps wont get above 55, also tonight is going to drop into the 30's.


----------



## begreen

41 this morning and it barely broke 50 today. Fire started this morning.


----------



## BKVP

In-flight back from AK.  Better be warm at home...headed to EPA lab Tuesday to work with others on new FRM for cordwood.


----------



## MCC

My dealer told me they are planning on installing a 12' tall chimney for my Princess 32 when it comes in.  I read in the online manual that 15' is the minimum recommended height.  The chimney will be a DW 6" straight up with no elbows.  When they install this, do they do some kind of draft test to ensure this is tall enough or should I be asking them about this?

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## BKVP

You can try 12' but if you experience spillage or other performance issues, you'll need to add at least 3'.


----------



## Ashful

I have one of my Ashfords on a pretty short chimney, surely well under 15 feet, maybe as short as 12 feet.  It's some work getting it to draft above 40F, and if I'm not careful to establish draft before lighting a load, I can have the family yelling at me about the smoke.  But it's never been a problem to get it drafting, usually by lighting something small first, and holding it farther back in the stove to heat the chimney.  The only real problem in this operation is my own attention and memory, namely forgetting to establish draft on a dead-cold stove, before loading full and lighting it on a 50F evening.

It will also limit how far you can turn down before stalling, but that's been a problem more in theory than practicality for me, I can still run that stove pretty darn low and slow.

Spill-out from the door hasn't been any issue, as the chimney is usually pretty warm when I'm opening the door.  How often do you open the door on a load of wood that's still producing smoke, when the chimney also happens to be cold?  Never, in my case.


----------



## stoveliker

I would suspect that the stalling position on the thermostat may be higher, BUT that the heat output at the stalling point is very similar to the heat output at the stalling point of e.g. a 16' chimney system.


----------



## Nealm66

Why don’t they want to add 3’?


----------



## MCC

Nealm66 said:


> Why don’t they want to add 3’?


I don't know.  The salesman is supposed to  call me Monday and discuss it with me.


----------



## MCC

MCC said:


> I don't know.  The salesman is supposed to  call me Monday and discuss it with me.


This is on a single floor ranch.  I just went out and measured 12' and that would be 4' above the roof.  15' would be 7' foot above the roof.   Maybe they don't want a skyscraper sticking above my roof?


----------



## Nealm66

Maybe someday they’ll have some sort of chimney technology that creates a perfect draft like some sort of fan setup


----------



## begreen

MCC said:


> This is on a single floor ranch.  I just went out and measured 12' and that would be 4' above the roof.  15' would be 7' foot above the roof.   Maybe they don't want a skyscraper sticking above my roof?


Our chimney is 7' above the roof to meet the 10-3-2 rule. It has the required brace at 5' above the roof. Fortunately, its location is not visually prominent.


----------



## Nealm66

It probably wouldn’t look too bad depending on the roof/neighbors. I think not having it to spec wouldn’t be too bad if it was just at startup that’s the problem. Would suck though if you had any issues whatsoever and had to extend or buy a less draft hungry stove.


----------



## stoveliker

The problem with a BK with a chimney that is too short, is that it'll stall at warmer weather, precisely when you would want to make use of the low and slow capability.


----------



## BKVP

stoveliker said:


> The problem with a BK with a chimney that is too short, is that it'll stall at warmer weather, precisely when you would want to make use of the low and slow capability.


Not all short stacks resulting in stalling.  Every install is different.  The dealer will be able to spec if additional draft is needed.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes. Hence I said*too* short. And I noted that it would affect the range of operation that for many folks is the reason they get a BK


----------



## rijim

BKVP said:


> Not all short stacks resulting in stalling.  Every install is different.  The dealer will be able to spec if additional draft is needed.


I live @ 10’ above sea level in RI, I can get away with the 15’ minimum at 45 deg. F., not sure that would be the same  for higher elevations.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> Not all short stacks resulting in stalling.  Every install is different.  The dealer will be able to spec if additional draft is needed.



I'm one of those guys with a princess on a 12' stack. All vertical of course. That met the manual specifications when I installed it back in 2012. They hadn't yet invented the 15' recommendation. It's always hard to tell if it's a recommendation or a requirement. 

It works great. No smoke smell in the house and I regularly burn when it is 60 degrees outside as I am a full time wood heater. Still burning daily right now in mid May. It runs very low just fine in crock pot mode. Just don't open the door in the middle of a long burn or you'll likely get some roll out. I don't do that very often though unless it's bitter cold out so it hasn't been a problem. 

I have a similar home to @MCC  with a single story home and  for me 12' is just under the limit before you need those goofy looking roof braces and honestly the ridiculous height of a 7' exposed stack on top of a home that is just 7-8' to the gutters.


----------



## Highbeam

Still burning, middle of June. Not every day but last night for sure. It was 65 in the house and mid 40s overnight. I am using high settings hoping to burn off any goo and keep everything dry for our 2-3 month summer burn break.


----------



## Ashful

We occasionally burn in June, but more because I'm looking for an excuse for "one last fire", than any real  need for it.

I just shoveled both of mine out, vacuumed around them, and closed the fireplace doors on each two days ago.  Haven't burned in a couple of weeks, I figure I'm done.  I'll get around to a proper cleaning and chimney sweeping in the fall, if this year is anything like the last few.


----------



## BKVP

I've been in Texas this week.  The only thing burning here is everything!  Hotter than hedoubletoothpicks.


----------



## Poindexter

BKVP said:


> Every install is different.


Fully agree.  One variable is fuel.  @MCC 

There is (rabbit hole) a show on I think netflix with a space alien living in Colorado who pretends to be a doctor blah, blah.  One of his most used line is "This is some BS" aka "That is some BS," a line I have wanted to use more often than I had been able to to, as a stepfather, until we started watching this show.  Now I can say it as a movie quote....

Anyroad, in my first couple years as a wood burner I was burning everything I could get my hands on, birch, spruce, cottonwood, alder, whatever.  Once I had all that mixed fuel dry, I noticed it behaved differently in the stove and decided mixed fuel is some BS.  So now I burn all spruce, and I kiln it for uniform MC, and this is not BS.

For flue height, I want just enough height (shortest stack possible) to run wide open throttle in the depths of winter without doing metallurgy on the hearth.  From there, I want the tallest possible stack to run low and slow in warmer weather.  But not so tall I get molten stove metal dripping onto the hearth in cold weather...

You may indeed start with 12 feet of total pipe in Wisconsin. The wind marks in the farmland flying in to Minneapolis from Fairbanks are remarkable. You probably won't melt anything expensive in January 2023 running wide open throttle with fuel at 12%MC.  On 12 feet, you will be very limited in your ability to run the stove low and slow in shoulder seasons.  You probably will not hit your perfect final flue height from internet posts.  None of us really know your local winds, none of us have seen the topography within three miles of your house, we don't know where the nearest tree to your chimney is in relation to your prevailing winds.  We don't know how dry your fuel is.  We don't know how may different species are in your stacks.

If you are out in the country with high winds, like the trees are asymmetrical near you, stick at 12 feet total and see if you melt anything in January.  If your trees look balanced, 15 feet will give you more flexibility to run lower and slower in spring and autumn.  I am currently running 16-17 feet of total stack height on an Ashford 30.  At -50dF (we don't get much wind in Fairbanks) I can run wide open for weeks at a time without peeling the paint on my stove.  Above freezing I run small fuel loads at wide open throttle to put a burst of heat in the house without the stove going out from lack of draft.  Above about +40 to +45dF I don't run my wood stove at all, it is just too much trouble.

It took me four seasons and three changes to leave my stack height alone.  If you got a lot of wind, start with 12.  If your trees are balanced on all sides, 15 is is probably a safe place to start.  If you wake up in January because it sounds like there is a locomotive in your living room in the middle of the night, you got too much stack for conditions.


----------



## Ashful

Too bad you couldn't wait until August to post that gem, Poindexter.  It'd have been the perfect stream of consciousness rant to end this thread.

And as to the locomotive, some of us run key dampers and manometers, to cancel the height variable.


----------



## begreen

No burning here in June either in spite of us having a Juneuary like we had a decade ago. 48-50 overnight and 58-65 during the day. As Pointdexter mentioned, it's too much hassle. Running the numbers it's also less expensive to let the heat pump cover it. It barely makes a blip in the electric bill with these temps.


----------



## Magedon44

Montanalocal said:


> Hi
> 
> The bottom line seems to be you can not get enough heat out of your Princess to heat your house when it is cold.
> 
> I had a similar problem, and I found a way to fix that.
> 
> I started out with a Lopi Liberty replacing an old Earth Stove a few years ago.  It did heat my home, which is over 3,000 sq. ft., is a log  home, so no thick insulation, and a lot of big glass on two stories.
> 
> However, I simply could not put up with the Lopi.  The big firebox is a fib, as the air tubes intrude down into the firebox, and the door is very close to the bottom, so you can not build up much of any coal and ash base.  I was refilling it twice per night. I might add, I only have Ponderosa pine to burn, which is quite punky, and very uneven splits due to huge knots.
> 
> Anyway, I traded it in for a Blaze King KE40.  Vastly better in every which way.  Nice deep firebox that I can accumulate coals and ash, and get in over twice as much wood as the Lopi.  And the thermostat control is of course absolutely great.
> 
> However, there was one issue.  It would not heat my house.  I could not extract heat fast enough to replace the losses when cold.  The main reason was the very wimpy fan on the BK.  It puts out about one third the air volume of the Lopi.
> 
> So I came up with the solution that now very adequately heats my house.  I added some external fans.  I have one that sits above the stove and blows directly down onto the top of the stove where the catalytic hot spot is.  Then I have two more fans directing the heat generated and taking it up the stairs to the upper floor where our living area is.
> 
> The key is removing the heat from the stove.  If it does not get removed fast enough, the thermostat will not tell the stove to generate heat fast enough.  The thermostat will only tell the stove to open up when it cools off, which it will not do if the stove and the air around it remain very warm.  This warm air right around the stove will not get into the rest of the house if it is not moved there by some means, and the wimpy fan on the BK is not up to the job.
> 
> Again, the key is to have a strong fan blowing directly on the stove.  This forces the stove to generate heat faster, and also distributes the heat to other parts of the house.
> 
> I think that experimenting with a fan on your Princess will make you happy.
> 
> View attachment 291561


Hello,
  Mike here from Central PA. saw you owned both stoves and im torn btwn them. I have a log home, 3500 sq ft. but really just trying to heat our 2000 sq ft living room with 23 ft ceilings. I like the idea of a large firebox in the king but feel the lopi will pump a  super hot heat but for shorter amounts of time. I will be burning oak/maple and dont really mind if I burn more wood using the lopi as long as I get a hotter heat.

Can you please tell me which stove when run on high felt warmer? Not really worried about efficiency more so thinking I need to focus more on getting a hot heat out of a stove and so was hoping you could help me out. My heads been spinning for weeks on these two stoves..any thoughts  you might have are appreciated.


Thanks, Mike


----------



## begreen

I'm curious what year Liberty @Montanalocal owned. The new Liberty has some nice firebox improvements. It's larger and deeper. Sealcove got one last winter.





						New Lopi Liberty (2020 NextGen)
					

I replaced my stove this week with a new Lopi Liberty.  It takes the place of a well used 2008 Jotul F600, that I may hold onto and rebuild.  The Liberty is installed, I did the break in burn last night, but obviously it is much to early to share a full opinion yet.  I can say that I am very...




					www.hearth.com
				



That said, not many stoves have the deep belly of the KE40. That's what gives it that thick bottom profile.


----------



## Montanalocal

I got my Lopi Liberty in August of 2019.  The invoice has listed as a description #1105.

It had a very shallow belly, and that was the main reason I traded it for a KE 40


----------



## begreen

Montanalocal said:


> I got my Lopi Liberty in August of 2019.  The invoice has listed as a description #1105.
> 
> It had a very shallow belly, and that was the main reason I traded it for a KE 40


Thanks. They made the firebox change in 2020.


----------



## Montanalocal

Magedon44 said:


> Hello,
> Mike here from Central PA. saw you owned both stoves and im torn btwn them. I have a log home, 3500 sq ft. but really just trying to heat our 2000 sq ft living room with 23 ft ceilings. I like the idea of a large firebox in the king but feel the lopi will pump a  super hot heat but for shorter amounts of time. I will be burning oak/maple and dont really mind if I burn more wood using the lopi as long as I get a hotter heat.
> 
> Can you please tell me which stove when run on high felt warmer? Not really worried about efficiency more so thinking I need to focus more on getting a hot heat out of a stove and so was hoping you could help me out. My heads been spinning for weeks on these two stoves..any thoughts  you might have are appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Mike


I think that both stoves can pump out a great amount of heat if run on high.  Having run both, I would say that the Blaze King is by far the better stove.  It has a great automatic temperature control system.  The Lopi has a manual setting for how much air to let in, and it is very finicky to set.  Just a small fraction of an inch either way will give widely varying results.  The BK has an automatic system that is very practical and usefulI.  I would never in a million years go back to my Lopi.  If you are trying to heat mainly your large living room, the easier to control BK would be your best bet.  The Lopi would be more likely to overheat I think.


----------



## Ashful

begreen said:


> That said, not many stoves have the deep belly of the KE40. That's what gives it that thick bottom profile.


----------



## showrguy

Magedon44 said:


> Hello,
> Mike here from Central PA. saw you owned both stoves and im torn btwn them. I have a log home, 3500 sq ft. but really just trying to heat our 2000 sq ft living room with 23 ft ceilings. I like the idea of a large firebox in the king but feel the lopi will pump a  super hot heat but for shorter amounts of time. I will be burning oak/maple and dont really mind if I burn more wood using the lopi as long as I get a hotter heat.
> 
> Can you please tell me which stove when run on high felt warmer? Not really worried about efficiency more so thinking I need to focus more on getting a hot heat out of a stove and so was hoping you could help me out. My heads been spinning for weeks on these two stoves..any thoughts  you might have are appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Mike


Hi Mike,
I’m assuming your from Loganton, not Loganto ??
Anyway, I have a camp off of East Winter rd/ Sugarhaven ln…. I’ll be up end of next week, I can tell you all you ever need to know about the BK King… Awesome stove !!
Not sure where you are ??


----------



## Magedon44

showrguy said:


> Hi Mike,
> I’m assuming your from Loganton, not Loganto ??
> Anyway, I have a camp off of Est Winter rd/ Sugarhaven ln…. I’ll be up end of next week, I can tell you all you ever need to know about the BK King… Awesome stove !!
> Not sure where you are ??


Hey! yeah Loganton. Your only 15 mins from me. I will shoot you a PM. Would love to chat.


----------



## MCC

We just had our Princess installed this week.  Super excited, I’ve wanted a stove for years.  We ended up with 14’ stack height with 2 45 offsets to clear a rafter.    I’m interested in having a fire to try and cure off some paint smell and honestly to just see it burning.  Is there a proper breakin procedure?

Thanks
Dan


----------



## stoveliker

I think the proper procedure is described in the manual?

Edit: indeed, page 29.


Nice install. If you have smoke roll out, you may have to add some chimney height. I believe the manual specifies a minimum of 15', and that is without the 45 deg elbows. Adding elbows adds to the minimum recommended stack height.


----------



## bikedennis

I would wait until about 40 degrees for that first fire.  My Sirocco drafts very good,  but I had a lot of smoke roll out on my first paint cure fire because it was not cold enough outside.


----------



## Highbeam

bikedennis said:


> I would wait until about 40 degrees for that first fire.  My Sirocco drafts very good,  but I had a lot of smoke roll out on my first paint cure fire because it was not cold enough outside.


Many of us prefer a summertime break in fire since we can open all the windows to vent any paint fumes from the baking of the new paint on the stove and the pipe. I burn a lot in the 60s outside temps with a 12’ stack on my princess. Close the door to minimize or eliminate smoke rollout from the actual fire. 

Another nice thing about a summertime break in fire is if something is found to be defective or need work. Much easier when not during the heating season.


----------



## sprawlnstall

Still a while before the burning season is here but planning on some stove maintenance.  I haven’t had much look with ceramic cats.  My last one lasted only a year and crumbled. Yes my wood is dry. It was actually prob too dry. I suspect I have high draft and burned a lot of very dry pine last year. It was good heat but when the stove was ripping you could see the flames nearly going around the cat shield. My theory is I have high draft and very dry wood causing the flames to damage the cat but who knows.  My previous cats only lasted two years but I burn hard 24/7 October - April.  I’m planning on a steel cat and a new rope gasket for the door.  Will any door rope work or does the princess need a certain diameter of rope? Does the old rope simply pull off and new one glued back on? Any help or videos would be appreciated.


----------



## showrguy

sprawlnstall said:


> Still a while before the burning season is here but planning on some stove maintenance.  I haven’t had much look with ceramic cats.  My last one lasted only a year and crumbled. Yes my wood is dry. It was actually prob too dry. I suspect I have high draft and burned a lot of very dry pine last year. It was good heat but when the stove was ripping you could see the flames nearly going around the cat shield. My theory is I have high draft and very dry wood causing the flames to damage the cat but who knows.  My previous cats only lasted two years but I burn hard 24/7 October - April.  I’m planning on a steel cat and a new rope gasket for the door.  Will any door rope work or does the princess need a certain diameter of rope? Does the old rope simply pull off and new one glued back on? Any help or videos would be appreciated.


Have you checked your draft with a Manometer ??
Something is definitely amiss with your setup/burning/loading situation..


----------



## Ashful

Ditto what @showrguy said.  I'm past 40 cords on a ceramic cat, with zero sign of mechanical degradation.  Zero.

How many cords did you put thru the stove, before the thing fell apart?  If less than 40, I'd say we need to figure out why.

I have a tall pipe, but use a key damper to keep my draft at 0.05" WC on full throttle.


----------



## sprawlnstall

I have not checked my draft.  My setup is quite basic approximately 23 feet of chimney.  High winds may be a factor


----------



## sprawlnstall

Ashful said:


> Ditto what @showrguy said.  I'm past 40 cords on a ceramic cat, with zero sign of mechanical degradation.  Zero.
> 
> How many cords did you put thru the stove, before the thing fell apart?  If less than 40, I'd say we need to figure out why.
> 
> I have a tall pipe, but use a key damper to keep my draft at 0.05" WC on full throttle.


Mine fell apart after about 6 cords. My two previous cats did not fall apart and lasted 2 years and 10,000 hours.  My door seal appears to be tight, I do a lot of hot reloads but the bypass is always in the correct position and I wait a few minutes before engaging and disengaging. I think I had a severe case of flame impingement.


----------



## Highbeam

sprawlnstall said:


> Mine fell apart after about 6 cords. My two previous cats did not fall apart and lasted 2 years and 10,000 hours.  My door seal appears to be tight, I do a lot of hot reloads but the bypass is always in the correct position and I wait a few minutes before engaging and disengaging. I think I had a severe case of flame impingement.



I would expect your hot reloads to be a more likely problem than flame impingement due to your description of the damage and since this is a BK that is designed to prevent flame impingement damage. 

Dry pine can be a volatile fuel. Since it doesn't coal much you can really blow some BTU through this stove in a hurry. The pitch load can also add to that. The cat really has lots of fuel to munch in a hurry so it's a tougher life than a guy burning hardwoods.


----------



## Ashful

Flame impingement will usually cause cratering at the inlet face only.  Thermal shock is more likely to cause cracks that propagate all the way thru.

I suppose that with high draft, flame impingement becomes more likely, and with high draft could propagate further into the structure than the face alone.  This can muddy the evidence, when trying to determine the causes.

Thermal shock can be caused by opening door on a hot cat, or loading wet wood, which hits the cat with relatively cooler steam.  It sounds like you think these are unlikely, and your pipe is on the taller side, so I'd agree that a draft measurement is likely in order.

I actually keep a manometer (magnehelic type) mounted on the wall behind my stove, and plumbed into my 30 foot tall pipe.  This way, I can always see what it is doing.  Measurement is only valid at high setting, vacuum will always increase as you close down the inlet.  In any case, BK spec's 0.06" WC maximum, and my 30 foot pipe was pulling over 0.20" WC, before I added the key damper.  Unfortunately, I was running a steelcat before I added the damper, so I don't have any good data for you on what high draft will do to a ceramic cat, but I'd bet @BKVP does.





PS - The "wet" spots on top of the stove are where crumbs/dust from a SuperCedar had just landed less than an hour earlier, as I keep them in a cubby hole in the wall above the stove, and their make-up being half wax.  They disappear after a day.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

Over this summer I installed a new key damper that should help get my overdrafting issues under control. While I was doing that I replaced the interior single-wall piping with double-wall. It's kind of weird to be working on a wood stove when it's ~100 degrees outside.


----------



## BKVP

I would encourage a close examination of door glass gasket/fitment. As you all know, I won't address the issue of dampers.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

BKVP said:


> I would encourage a close examination of door glass gasket/fitment. As you all know, I won't address the issue of dampers.


It's all been examined, the stove is a year old and is tight. I am using a manometer.


----------



## stoveliker

TheElementalCashew said:


> It's all been examined, the stove is a year old and is tight. I am using a manometer.



Does that include the gasket for the window? Now (100 F outside) is the ideal time to look at that as you have to put flat hands on both sides of the window, and see if you can move the window a bit inside the door frame. If so, that gasket seal is not sufficient.


----------



## TheElementalCashew

stoveliker said:


> Does that include the gasket for the window? Now (100 F outside) is the ideal time to look at that as you have to put flat hands on both sides of the window, and see if you can move the window a bit inside the door frame. If so, that gasket seal is not sufficient.


Yep, window is tight as well.


----------



## begreen

The beat goes on...





						2022-2023 BK everything thread
					

And we are off to the races... at 1925 local on 08-09-22




					www.hearth.com


----------

