# Insert advice



## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

Hello, I am new to the forum, though I have been reading entries.   I am looking to purchase a wood fireplace insert and would appreciate some feedback regarding some models that I am looking at.  The three models that I am looking at are the Ironstrike(Lennox) Montlake 300, the Harmon 300i and the PE Summit.   I was pretty conviined on the Montlake 300 which is basically a large Montlake 230 as I like the aesthetics, design and the construction, but a rep I spoke to really did not Lennox at all.  He spoke well of Harmon, but had no use for Lennox.  I haven't found a lot of feed back on Lennox inserts.  Are they good inserts or do they have a spotty performance record.  My second choice would be the Harmon, and third PE Summit.  I know the Summit is a great performer, I'm just not sold on the appearance...shallow yes...but I have to look at it.  Your feedback would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks!


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2014)

The few reviews for the Montlake 230 have not been good. Complaint were of poor burn times, loud blower and one had the damper linkage fail. Of the inserts mentioned we have the most positive reviews for the Summit. It is a strong heater. 

How large an area will the insert be heating? Will it be run 24/7 or mostly nights and weekends?


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## prezes13 (Jul 17, 2014)

I have no experience with any of those inserts but I tell you what I did.  When I bought my insert I didn't know anything about inserts at all.  I was looking at them from the aesthetic point of view.  My choice a were Hampton is 300 vermont castings Montpelier.  I ended up buying cape cod based on the looks dealer recommendation and the fact that it was a flushed unit.  It's not a bad stove and I am quite happy with it, but if knew then what I know now (not too much still) I would go with a blaze king princess insert or another free standing stove from blaze king.


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## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

begreen said:


> The few reviews for the Montlake 230 have not been good. Complaint were of poor burn times, loud blower and one had the damper linkage fail. Of the inserts mentioned we have the most positive reviews for the Summit. It is a strong heater.
> 
> How large an area will the insert be heating? Will it be run 24/7 or mostly nights and weekends?



Hi BeGreen and thank you for your response!   I have an old 2 story farmhouse with about 1200 sq ft to heat.  It doesn't hold the heat very well in the 
winter, hence my focus on large inserts.  It probably won't run 24/7, but I am looking to make a dent in my heating oil bill and have backup heat in case of power loss.(I'm in the country). I was originally looking at the Canyon c310, but the company owner directed me to the Montlake 300 which had the specs and appearance that I liked.  It would seem that my choices are not down to the Harmon 300i and the Summit.
Thank you!


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## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

prezes13 said:


> I have no experience with any of those inserts but I tell you what I did.  When I bought my insert I didn't know anything about inserts at all.  I was looking at them from the aesthetic point of view.  My choice a were Hampton is 300 vermont castings Montpelier.  I ended up buying cape cod based on the looks dealer recommendation and the fact that it was a flushed unit.  It's not a bad stove and I am quite happy with it, but if knew then what I know now (not too much still) I would go with a blaze king princess insert or another free standing stove from blaze king.



Thank you for the reply!  I looked at the Blaze King Princess, however there are not dealers close to where I"m located and having strong dealer support is a factor in my decision making.


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## Grisu (Jul 17, 2014)

The Harman 300 is a downdraft stove. Those are often more difficult to operate and replacing the refractory burn chamber can be costly. It also seems to work much better when running constantly which does not seem to be your intention. Here is a thread of a Harman owner that had trouble getting it to burn properly: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-300i-help.124610/

If you are not convinced of the Summit have you considered other inserts? The Enviro 1700 line consists of strong heaters with a very good reputation here. They are a bit smaller than the other stoves you mentioned but should be plenty for 1200 sqft. Other options for large inserts are: Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Hybrid Fyre, Osburn 2400, Regency 3100i, Quadrafire 5100i to name some. Maybe you can find some dealers for those in your area. However, I have not seen my dealer since I bought my insert several years ago. Not sure if I would base my decision mostly on good dealer support. 

Since you have been reading around here I assume you know the need for dry, seasoned wood for any of those inserts. Don't forget to get a full liner (preferentially insulated) and a block-off plate:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

One more point: Have you considered to install a rear-vented freestanding stove in front of the fireplace? That will give you even more choices plus more heat and a cooking surface during a power outage. See here for an example: https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/img_0184-jpg.95304/


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## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

Grisu said:


> The Harman 300 is a downdraft stove. Those are often more difficult to operate and replacing the refractory burn chamber can be costly. It also seems to work much better when running constantly which does not seem to be your intention. Here is a thread of a Harman owner that had trouble getting it to burn properly: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-300i-help.124610/
> 
> If you are not convinced of the Summit have you considered other inserts? The Enviro 1700 line consists of strong heaters with a very good reputation here. They are a bit smaller than the other stoves you mentioned but should be plenty for 1200 sqft. Other options for large inserts are: Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Hybrid Fyre, Osburn 2400, Regency 3100i, Quadrafire 5100i to name some. Maybe you can find some dealers for those in your area. However, I have not seen my dealer since I bought my insert several years ago. Not sure if I would base my decision mostly on good dealer support.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply...point well taken...I've also looked at the Lopi Freedom Bay and the Lopi Large flush hybrid.  I've seen the Quadrafire 5100.
I'm not basing my decision largely on dealer support, but it is a factor.  The Summit is not out by a longshot, but I wanted more information on my other 2 choices, primarily on the Montlake 300.   It would seem that smaller stoves could handle 1200, but in this case, it's an old drafty farm house and I would rather have a bit more heating power than not enough.  Thank you for replying.  For the first season or I will probably buy some wood, but after that I will cut my own.
The free standing stove is a good idea, but I like the aesthetics of an insert.  I'm going to have the insert installed professionally, preferable by the dealer's own people.  I am planning on getting the liner for the chimney.  Thank you, I appreciate your advice!


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## Grisu (Jul 17, 2014)

Tristan358 said:


> Thank you for your reply...point well taken...I've also looked at the Lopi Freedom Bay and the Lopi Large flush hybrid.  I've seen the Quadrafire 5100.
> I'm not basing my decision largely on dealer support, but it is a factor.  The Summit is not out by a longshot, but I wanted more information on my other 2 choices, primarily on the Montlake 300.   It would seem that smaller stoves could handle 1200, but in this case, it's an old drafty farm house and I would rather have a bit more heating power than not enough.  Thank you for replying



The Enviro 1700 line has a 2.5 cu ft firebox while the Summit has 2.9; not that big of a difference anymore. With their different designs I thought you may find one you like and a dealer may be close by. 

What kind of other heating source did you use so far? Any idea how much fuel you used during the last winter and maybe the coldest month? From that you could estimate how much wood you will need to burn and how big of an insert you will need.


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2014)

Tristan358 said:


> Hi BeGreen and thank you for your response!   I have an old 2 story farmhouse with about 1200 sq ft to heat.  It doesn't hold the heat very well in the
> winter, hence my focus on large inserts.  It probably won't run 24/7, but I am looking to make a dent in my heating oil bill and have backup heat in case of power loss.(I'm in the country). I was originally looking at the Canyon c310, but the company owner directed me to the Montlake 300 which had the specs and appearance that I liked.  It would seem that my choices are not down to the Harmon 300i and the Summit.
> Thank you!


If you are trying to balance good looks with performance take a look at the Hampton HI300, Enviro Boston 1700 and perhaps the Hearthstone Clydesdale. Also, consider getting an energy audit and investing in sealing leaks and improving insulation. That will pay off faster and longer than a stove and will improve summer AC performance too.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 17, 2014)

Where in NEPA are you?
I have a Summit you may be interested in.
I'm between WIlkes Barre and Bloomsburg.
I can give you more details if you are seriously interested.


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## Hogwildz (Jul 17, 2014)

Summit is a 3cf firebox. actual usable space I am not sure of, never measured.


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## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

Grisu said:


> The Enviro 1700 line has a 2.5 cu ft firebox while the Summit has 2.9; not that big of a difference anymore. With their different designs I thought you may find one you like and a dealer may be close by.
> 
> What kind of other heating source did you use so far? Any idea how much fuel you used during the last winter and maybe the coldest month? From that you could estimate how much wood you will need to burn and how big of an insert you will need.



I understand


Hogwildz said:


> Where in NEPA are you?
> I have a Summit you may be interested in.
> I'm between WIlkes Barre and Bloomsburg.
> I can give you more details if you are seriously interested.



We've got an oil burner right now...hence my search to switch to wood, which I have an abundant supply of(or will once it is properly dried).  I was sold on the Montlake 300...but after input from Begreen, I will probably pass...Not ready on the summit...though it appears to be a beast from the specs I've seen!


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2014)

To be fair I should note that A) There are only 3 reports on the Montlake in the reviews, B) when I looked at the Montlake at HPBA it impressed me as a pretty nice stove and C) I have never owned or burned in a Montlake. There's a big change with IHP taking over these products. It's hard to tell how it will work out.


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## Tristan358 (Jul 17, 2014)

I understand, however I asked the dealer about it because I was concerned about 2 things,  1) It's a new untested model...and 2)  I was concerned that they just took the Montlake 230 and made it bigger without engineering due diligence.


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## Tristan358 (Jul 20, 2014)

Tristan358 said:


> Hello, I am new to the forum, though I have been reading entries.   I am looking to purchase a wood fireplace insert and would appreciate some feedback regarding some models that I am looking at.  The three models that I am looking at are the Ironstrike(Lennox) Montlake 300, the Harmon 300i and the PE Summit.   I was pretty conviined on the Montlake 300 which is basically a large Montlake 230 as I like the aesthetics, design and the construction, but a rep I spoke to really did not Lennox at all.  He spoke well of Harmon, but had no use for Lennox.  I haven't found a lot of feed back on Lennox inserts.  Are they good inserts or do they have a spotty performance record.  My second choice would be the Harmon, and third PE Summit.  I know the Summit is a great performer, I'm just not sold on the appearance...shallow yes...but I have to look at it.  Your feedback would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks!




I want to thank you all for your responses...I'm expanding my search a bit beyond local dealer availability.   One reason that I wanted to go with a dealer is installation.  Installation is not something that I want to tackle on my own and would rely on the dealers for.  

Let's say  that I order an insert over the internet.  Most dealers will only install what they sell and I don't blame them.  I even had one dealer tell me that he would install an insert that he didn't sell but that he would have to charge me extra for the proft he lost on not selling the stove...I kept a straight face.  The question is, how to locate an independent installer that will do it right?

Thanks!


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## Grisu (Jul 20, 2014)

Tristan358 said:


> I want to thank you all for your responses...I'm expanding my search a bit beyond local dealer availability.   One reason that I wanted to go with a dealer is installation.  Installation is not something that I want to tackle on my own and would rely on the dealers for.



You can also hire a certified sweep to do the install for you: http://www.csia.org/search
The chimney should be cleaned before the installation anyway.


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## Tristan358 (Jul 20, 2014)

Grisu said:


> You can also hire a certified sweep to do the install for you: http://www.csia.org/search
> The chimney should be cleaned before the installation anyway.



Grisu,  thanks, I'll look into that.  Haven't used the fireplace at all this year, but I will have it cleaned prior to install.


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## JTRock (Aug 4, 2014)

Yes also new and looking at the Summit, I just moved into a 2100sq ft house 2 story  I have a Leyden pellet stove rated at 1200-1500 ft that I have had for 6 years. That I am going to have installed in one one of the living rooms and putting the insert into the other that has a fireplace. The summit seems to be rated at 2000-3000sq ft. It's not the prettiest but am not going for style points with the price oil. Looked at the Super insert, but I don't want to regret going with smaller. Any thoughts.

Thanks!


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## Hogwildz (Aug 4, 2014)

I'd stick with the Summit for 2100sf. If the house open floor plan or all boxed off?
The newer Summits are pretty nice looking I think.
The original one I had, still have in the barn was much more plain jane.


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## Grisu (Aug 4, 2014)

JTRock said:


> Yes also new and looking at the Summit, I just moved into a 2100sq ft house 2 story  I have a Leyden pellet stove rated at 1200-1500 ft that I have had for 6 years. That I am going to have installed in one one of the living rooms and putting the insert into the other that has a fireplace. The summit seems to be rated at 2000-3000sq ft. It's not the prettiest but am not going for style points with the price oil. Looked at the Super insert, but I don't want to regret going with smaller. Any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!



Welcome to the forum!

I assume you have a masonry fireplace and chimney? If the insert is supposed to heat the whole house without the assistance of the pellet stove or furnace then you will need a large unit with a firebox of ~3 cu ft. The PE Summit would fall into that category as do the Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Hybrid insert, Quadrafire 5100i, Regency I3100, Blazeking Princess (if you want to consider a cat insert), Kuma Sequoia (needs 8" liner), Osburn 2400. You can do a forum search and read many reports about most of these options. The PE Summit is certainly highly regarded here. 
Another option would be to put a freestanding, rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace provided the lintel is high enough and the hearth has enough depth or can be extended. That would give you another set of choices like the Jotul F600 or F55, Woodstock Progress Hybrid or Ideal Steel (catalytic stoves), Hearthstone Manchester, and the Quadrafire Isle Royale. A freestander will be less reliant on a blower and probably be a better heater when the power is out. You will also get a cooktop. 

Whatever you buy, make sure to have a full liner installed. An insulated liner is highly recommended especially when you have an exterior chimney. A damper-sealing block-off plate will keep the heat in the house: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

Finally, make sure to have several cords of dry, seasoned wood available. To achieve the required 20 % or less of internal moisture wood needs to be split and stacked in a sunny and windy spot for 1 to 3 years depending on the tree species. Most firewood sellers don't have the time and space to dry wood for that long so test any delivery with a moisture meter whether it is really seasoned.


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## JTRock (Aug 4, 2014)

Hog, it's pretty open. When I walk in my front door to the left there is a wall and closet next to the staircase leading to the upstairs bedrooms, that I'm going to cut out the wall which leads to the living room that houses the fireplace to put the insert. Then it will be flowing downstairs. 

Grisu, thanks for the warm welcome (pun intended) and the wealth of info. An insert is my only option because of my hearth depth and mantle clearance. I definitely plan on having a professional, safe quality install. I gotta say it's a bit intimidating but awesome venturing into the wood burning world


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## Grisu (Aug 4, 2014)

JTRock said:


> Grisu, thanks for the warm welcome (pun intended) and the wealth of info. An insert is my only option because of my hearth depth and mantle clearance. I definitely plan on having a professional, safe quality install. I gotta say it's a bit intimidating but awesome venturing into the wood burning world



You are very welcome. With new members I am trying to be as encompassing as possible since I don't know if they are aware of all the available choices. The Summit is certainly a good insert. If you don't like any of the other options I mentioned any better then you can rest assured you will get a quality unit. However, even if you hire a professional you will almost certainly need to ask for a block-off plate and most likely also for an insulated liner. And don't forget to get some dry wood or you will be very disappointed this winter. If you don't have any yet, compressed wood logs (Ecobricks, Biobricks etc.) are a good alternative. It costs about 30 % to 50 % more than cordwood but is guaranteed dry, less work and less of a mess.

Good luck with your venture in the wood-burning world and we like to see pictures of the stove (with fire in it, preferably).


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## JTRock (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks again. I will most certainly ask for those items at installation.


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## Tristan358 (Aug 5, 2014)

JTRock said:


> Yes also new and looking at the Summit, I just moved into a 2100sq ft house 2 story  I have a Leyden pellet stove rated at 1200-1500 ft that I have had for 6 years. That I am going to have installed in one one of the living rooms and putting the insert into the other that has a fireplace. The summit seems to be rated at 2000-3000sq ft. It's not the prettiest but am not going for style points with the price oil. Looked at the Super insert, but I don't want to regret going with smaller. Any thoughts.
> 
> Thanks!



Good luck in your search...the selection of inserts can be a bit overwhelming...I leaning toward either the Harmon 300i or the Ironstrike Montlake...but I'm taking my time as with you, I don't want any regret after purchasing and installing.  I rather buy a bit too much capacity than too little.


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## JTRock (Aug 5, 2014)

I think what draws me to Pacific  Energy is the price point of the Summit. I have a friend that sells that brand so I get a hook up. Originally I was set on a Hearthstone Heritage soapstone but when the clearances didn't work out it was a bummer... Hearthstone makes the Clydesdale but for having to settle for an insert I don't want to go that high.


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## Ricky8443 (Aug 5, 2014)

I was in your position last winter. I wanted Hearthstone Heritage as well for aesthetics and heat time, but I had clearance issues too (without tearing up the fireplace). I actually drove to a neighboring state to purchase a  Blaze King Princess Insert for price reasons even though there is a dealer 40 miles from me. You might be able to get a good deal on the Pacific Energy Summit, but you won't care about that at 4:00am on a Saturday morning when you're sleeping comfortably knowing that your blazeking will continue to pour heat through the better part of the morning.  Its an investment for sure (and an investment of time to acquire), but after doing several months of research I'm more than confident that the princess would be the best experience for an insert owner.


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## begreen (Aug 5, 2014)

If the Summit is not keeping the house warm at 4am or even 8am something else is quite wrong.


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## JTRock (Aug 5, 2014)

So I just pulled the trigger on the Summit Got a great deal 20% down 0% for 6mos definitely excited!


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## Ricky8443 (Aug 5, 2014)

awesome didnt know you wanted finacing option. good luck w the new stove, always exciting.


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## begreen (Aug 5, 2014)

Congratulations. I'm glad it worked out for you. How's the wood supply?


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## JTRock (Aug 6, 2014)

Looking into that now, hoping for a good referral. Also need a storage area. I hope to start gathering for the years to come too. Obviously this year I will have to get 3-4 cords of Legit Seasoned wood. Hope to get that secured soon


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