# I Bought a Prius



## 7acres (Feb 27, 2018)

This post feels like it almost doesn't belong on the forum. But as this forum has a Green room I figured I'd put up a post. So yeah, I'm no longer working from home and have a 20 mile commute (mostly highway). My normal vehicle is an Xterra which gets lousy gas mileage. My wife and I initially were considering an electric only vehicle. We needed to purchase used as well. Long story short, we decided the Prius line was a quality known quantity with great reviews. 

Yesterday we test drove a 2011 standard size and a 2014 Prius C III. They were both very clean. But I really wanted "leather" seats and the 2014 with trim package III had them. Both had ~100k miles and were listed at a similar price. I snagged the 2014 Prius C III for $7,200 (plus tags, taxes, etc.). Drove it home yesterday from work and the display calculated the trip home cost me $0.96.


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## byQ (Feb 27, 2018)

That is a good deal. I guess the c model gets the highest mileage of any car (except electric) in city driving.


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## woodgeek (Feb 28, 2018)

Sounds like a great commuter for the price.


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## 7acres (Feb 28, 2018)

Thanks guys! I am a bit mystified why there wasn't more demand for this car. This dealership was even trying to auction it off and couldn't get any takers. Anyway, I'm happy I snagged it. 

I've been getting used to driving it. It's definitely different. Understanding when the engine is kicking in and charging the battery vs the engine off and the battery powering the wheels and draining the charge (and not using gas) is a very intellectual way to get around. I like it. Getting the most out of downhills and braking is also cool. It's funny how your whole mentality changes. It's like a game. 

I'm already improving my driving efficiency. My MPG is up 5mpg just in the 2 days owning it. My one-way commute has gone down from 96¢ to 77¢. I was paying about $4.50 in my previous vehicle.


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## blades (Feb 28, 2018)

I looked into those - for me and my commute it just wasn't too feasible, I would run out of charge before finishing the round trip. Nice snag on the price, 14 models around here are double that +.  The dealers call it Market pricing- I call it by what it really is -price fixing.


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## woodgeek (Feb 28, 2018)

Smokin deal.  You could've got something with a plug, like a Gen 1 LEAF for close to that amount, but it would have been a much less generally useful vehicle.


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## JRHAWK9 (Feb 28, 2018)

Here's a Prius


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 1, 2018)

I bet that does wheelies!


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## Allagash350 (Mar 1, 2018)

Nice! I have a 2017 Camry hybrid. I’ve put 15k on it since I got it the last few days of September. 

Took some getting used to coming from a crew cab f250, but I got over it when I saw I was getting 4x the mpg lol. 
I usually average 40mpg, but I think the Prius does better. I just don’t like the looks of them. 
Unfortunately my mentality is a bit different. I figure even if I drive it like a bat out of hell I can still get 32mpg on a long highway trip at 80. 
City driving i get 42. Mileage went down to 36 in winter with studded snow tires and lots of idling.


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## jebatty (Mar 2, 2018)

Here's the peoples car: Jaguar EV
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43239038


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## Ashful (Mar 2, 2018)

jebatty said:


> Here's the peoples car: Jaguar EV
> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43239038



There are a few respectable EV’s, this being one of the more practical options.  Let’s not forget the venerable BMW i8, for those who enjoy driving.  Of course, at these prices, going EV isn’t about saving money.

A 20 mile commute would cost $18.00 round trip in my ICE-powered sedan.  If you’re going for economy, $0.77 sounds damn good, but are you figuring tire wear in that number?

Of course, jebatty, you and I have very different definitions for “respectable” when it comes to our vehicular priorities.  ;-)


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## peakbagger (Mar 2, 2018)

Jaguar not a paragon of reliability and is now owned by a Chinese firm. Not really buying that reliability is going to be a big long term bonus to buying a Jag EV.


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## Ashful (Mar 2, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> Jaguar not a paragon of reliability and is now owned by a Chinese firm. Not really buying that reliability is going to be a big long term bonus to buying a Jag EV.



I’ve owned modern Jaguars (as recent as 2006), and have never found them to be less reliable than any other car I’ve owned.

You are right, their ancient history is full of fun stories of electrical and mechanical problems, but they were pushing the limits of technology (V12’s in 1971 ?!?).  Those cars were built for racing and sporting, not for commuter reliability, and they were some of the best at that.

As mentioned, they’ve been purchased again, no longer owned and run by Ford.  Who knows what this really means for their reliability, today?  They are not what they once were, so I’d not assume any legacy, good or bad.


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## peakbagger (Mar 2, 2018)

I agree that the past does not predict the future but Jag has been pretty consistent on having very low reliability for many years. The sixties E-series models were pushing the edge of tech and were expected to be fragile, but the sedans were nothing special.  Ferrari was making V-12s long before Jag. Not so sure the later XJS series was a good example, they still had the V-12 but the electrics were abysma and the cars had turned into luxury tourers. I think they were plagued by ongoing labor union issues which hurt them but funamentally they like many luxury cars had outgrown standard individual circuits compared to the LANs used in newer luxury cars. They seemed to have high point early on with Ford when they pretty well stuck with the XJ6 family and for awhile they became somewhat mainstream in the US as a luxury sedan alternative but the folks at Broken Kitty down in texas still sold lot of engine and transmission conversions. Unfortunately Ford decided to try expand the franchise by whitewashing the mondeo line at some point and sold rebadged 4WD mondeo station wagons as Jags. Maybe they have changed, but I rarely have ever heard a long term Jag owner who doesnt answer a question about reliability without a "yes, but" Their resale values also tend to plumment which drives up lease costs. Their dealer network in the US has always been strong on image but weak on service yet very high priced.


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## jetsam (Mar 2, 2018)

Allagash350 said:


> Nice! I have a 2017 Camry hybrid. I’ve put 15k on it since I got it the last few days of September.
> 
> Took some getting used to coming from a crew cab f250, but I got over it when I saw I was getting 4x the mpg lol.
> I usually average 40mpg, but I think the Prius does better. I just don’t like the looks of them.
> ...



I have a gas-only Honda Fit that gets pretty much those same numbers (though the other way around, low 40s on the highway and mid 30s in the city).  I always wonder if some of those hybrids are purposely designed for poor mileage so they don't compete with the gas guzzlers too much.


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## jetsam (Mar 2, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Of course, jebatty, you and I have very different definitions for “respectable” when it comes to our vehicular priorities.  ;-)



I bet he doesn't even OWN a JATO bottle!


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## peakbagger (Mar 2, 2018)

jetsam said:


> I have a gas-only Honda Fit that gets pretty much those same numbers (though the other way around, low 40s on the highway and mid 30s in the city).  I always wonder if some of those hybrids are purposely designed for poor mileage so they don't compete with the gas guzzlers too much.



Most of the hybrids were designed to optimize city mileage, with highway mileage secondary.  Aerodynaimcs and vehicle weight are the big drivers for highway mileage and lugging around a battery pack and the extra equipment for the hybrid drivetrain offsets some of the efficiency gain. 

I have seen discussions over the years about ripping the electronic guts and battery pack out of prius and switching it to ICE engine to see what the difference in highway mileage would be. I think the little ECO tech 1 liter Ford Fiesta motor would be a nice fit. Ether that or the new Mazda homogeneous charge engine  https://www.caranddriver.com/review...on-ignition-gas-engine-prototype-drive-review. I expect the Prius would still excel at local city driving but expect the ICE engines would give them a run for the crown on highway.


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## Ashful (Mar 2, 2018)

jetsam said:


> I bet he doesn't even OWN a JATO bottle!



Lol... how’d you know?


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## WiscWoody (Mar 2, 2018)

What’s a ICE engine?


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## peakbagger (Mar 2, 2018)

WiscWoody said:


> What’s a ICE engine?



Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)


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## jebatty (Mar 3, 2018)

jetsam said:


> JATO bottle


 Where can I get one, maybe two?


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## WiscWoody (Mar 3, 2018)

Lol...ok, what’s a JATO bottle? So much to learn here!


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## woodgeek (Mar 3, 2018)

WiscWoody said:


> Lol...ok, what’s a JATO bottle? So much to learn here!



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO


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## jetsam (Mar 3, 2018)

woodgeek said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO



And, famously, the flying car.

https://www.snopes.com/autos/dream/jato.asp


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## begreen (Mar 3, 2018)

Allagash350 said:


> Nice! I have a 2017 Camry hybrid. I’ve put 15k on it since I got it the last few days of September.
> 
> Took some getting used to coming from a crew cab f250, but I got over it when I saw I was getting 4x the mpg lol.
> I usually average 40mpg, but I think the Prius does better. I just don’t like the looks of them.
> ...


Wow, that's a lot of mileage. You live on the road so I would agree the Camry is a better fit for comfort, especially if one is doing a lot of highway driving.


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## WiscWoody (Mar 3, 2018)

I’d like to buy a used Prius someday. My daily driver is a lowly 2000 Toyota Echo That I’ve had since it was a year old. It’s been hit twice now and I hit a deer with it and it has 266,000 on the clock so it’s the butt of many jokes here in the tiny town I live in but it keeps on going and I keep on driving it. Lol, I’ve done 51 full synthetic oil changes on it now. I have two Ford trucks also but the Echo is my go to vehicle most of the time.


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## begreen (Mar 3, 2018)

Sounds like the EverReady bunny.


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## Where2 (Mar 4, 2018)

7acres said:


> So yeah, I'm no longer working from home and have a 20 mile commute (mostly highway). My normal vehicle is an Xterra which gets lousy gas mileage. ... Drove it home yesterday from work and the display calculated the trip home cost me $0.96.


Back in 2000, I tried to get my wife to go with something that got more than 17mpg. She was adamant she wanted an SUV (4Runner, V6). When she rolled it on the interstate (walked away from the accident), we got her a sedan that gets 40+MPG on the highway. When that vehicle was hit by a landscape trailer in a filling station, she was adamant to the rental car company she needed something capable of hauling her full sized Roland keyboard. They handed her keys to a small SUV. She couldn't give that SUV back to the rental company fast enough when her car was fixed!! She literally said "I haven't had it 10 days, and I have had to refuel it twice! Fuel economy in this thing is horrible." Mind you, the rental SUV fuel economy wasn't any worse than the V6 4Runner, it was basically the same. 



begreen said:


> 15K/yr Wow, that's a lot of mileage.


My typical year these days is ~20k miles. (60+ miles per day, every work day, plus errands)

Several years ago, when I had a job in an office 10 miles from home, and my company decided to close my office and let those in that office "work from home". They pitched it as "Look at all the money you'll save not commuting!". At that point, I was filling my vehicle once a month for $40 (650 miles to a tank). The company didn't offer to kick in any $$$ for upgrading my internet speed, or the extra electricity working from home would need to keep the lights on and run the A/C to keep me and their PC comfortable 10 months out of the year... (they covered these expenses for the office location out of their pocket. ) At that point, fuel was cheap, and refueling was costing me $40/mo. That $40 savings could only buy me an extra 300kWh of electricity, which doesn't help my internet speed, and only covers about 50% of the working hours running A/C. The bean counters were trying to do a great "cost shift" there, but I saw through their smoke screen.



7acres said:


> I'm already improving my driving efficiency. My MPG is up 5mpg just in the 2 days owning it. My one-way commute has gone down from 96¢ to 77¢. I was paying about $4.50 in my previous vehicle.


Are you comparing apples to oranges? Was your total daily commute (20 miles) really costing $4.50 in the Xterra?


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## Ashful (Mar 4, 2018)

Where2 said:


> Back in 2000, I tried to get my wife to go with something that got more than 17mpg. She was adamant she wanted an SUV (4Runner, V6). When she rolled it on the interstate (walked away from the accident), we got her a sedan that gets 40+MPG on the highway. When that vehicle was hit by a landscape trailer in a filling station, she was adamant to the rental car company she needed something capable of hauling her full sized Roland keyboard. They handed her keys to a small SUV.



I don’t know how to tell you this, so I’ll just come out and say it, I think we may have married the same woman.

A few years back, my wife rolled her Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo on the expressway at 70 mph.  One of those spectacular movie scene rollovers, where the thing just goes over and over and over, until you’ve lost count of how many times it rolled.  It landed on it’s roof in the end, and was obviously totaled.  Two days later we bought her a new Jaguar, which was then rear-ended by an un-insured driver in an F350 with plow hydraulics on the front, who didn’t see her or the stop sign at which she was stopped (or apparently the opposing traffic that had her waiting at the stop sign).  $30k in damage, since it was a 5 or 6 week old Jaguar, they wouldn’t total it.  We sold that car a year or two later, and bought her an Audi, in which she hit a deer on the same expressway, while doing 65 mph.  Got that repaired, and six days later, she hit another deer on a country road.  This was all inside of maybe 18 months.

It’s been a few years now, and she’s only hit one deer since, about $9k damage to her Volvo.  Of all these accidents, only the rollover and maybe the most recent deer were her fault, the two previous deer were unfortunately unavoidable situations, and the plow truck driver was just asleep at the wheel.


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## begreen (Mar 4, 2018)

begreen said:


> 15K/yr Wow, that's a lot of mileage.





Where2 said:


> My typical year these days is ~20k miles. (60+ miles per day, every work day, plus errands)


I didn't say that. The 15k miles the Allagash350 reported in 5 months is a lot of mileage.


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## blades (Mar 4, 2018)

I do 93 miles round trip almost every day- 16 escape, 2 L turbo,4wd, rated at 29mpg hwy- in the warm months. I sometimes get that, generally more like 27. 22 or so when real cold out.  15 gal tank.  I think the station has set up a dedicated pump just for me. As I said before  used car pricing here is crazy high and the pirus is at the top ( market pricing = price fixing). roughly $3300 in fuel a year on that unit + apx another $1000 in diesel for the truck/year.  I was driving one of the trucks daily that was $550/mo in fuel for the same round trip hence the Escape.


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## peakbagger (Mar 4, 2018)

I have a Ford Fiesta, I bought it as a new leftover for 13K and run it back and forth to Mass from Northern NH every couple of weeks. Usually trips are 400 mile. I get 40 MPG in the summer and 39 in the winter keeping up with traffic (starts out around around 73 MPH getting up to around 77 (so I dont get run over in Mass and southern NH). NH has yearly excise taxes based on the cars value and of course insurance is also related to the cars value. I get the federal mileage rate for the trips and definitely make money on them. When I wear it out its wont owe me anything.


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## begreen (Mar 4, 2018)

It's great that there are so many efficient cars available today. When we got our Prius in 2006 there weren't many. Now, there are a lot and some are not barebones either.  A Chevy Malibu will do 36 mpg and a Cruze diesel will do 52 mpg. Bodes well for the used car market as these come off of 2-3 yr. leases.


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## Ashful (Mar 4, 2018)

My generator has used 20 gallons in the last two days, and hasn’t moved 10 feet.  That’s poor mileage.


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## begreen (Mar 4, 2018)

Yes, that's high consumption. I hope it hasn't moved a millimeter!


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## semipro (Mar 4, 2018)

Ashful said:


> My generator has used 20 gallons in the last two days, and hasn’t moved 10 feet.  That’s poor mileage.


Depends on your frame of reference.


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## semipro (Mar 4, 2018)

begreen said:


> Yes, that's high consumption. I hope it hasn't moved a millimeter!


Despite what many believe, plate tectonics are still active on the east cost.  It may have moved.
I'm told by a geologist friend that the rate of Appalachian uplift is roughly equivalent to erosion losses so peak heights don't change much.


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## Ashful (Mar 4, 2018)

begreen said:


> Yes, that's high consumption. I hope it hasn't moved a millimeter!


It moves about 6 feet, twice a day.  Out of the garage in the morning, back into the garage at night.

Power just came back on.  Time to watch "Darkest Hour".


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## Where2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I don’t know how to tell you this, so I’ll just come out and say it, I think we may have married the same woman.


You must be mistaken, mine is still daily driving a 2006 VW. I couldn't afford depreciation losses or deductibles on all those vehicles you've been through... 



begreen said:


> I didn't say that. The 15k miles the Allagash350 reported in 5 months is a lot of mileage.


I stand corrected   Thanks for clearing that up. *15k in 5 months* IS a lot of mileage. Not sure how he stands still long enough for an oil change driving that much!



peakbagger said:


> I get the federal mileage rate for the trips and definitely make money on them. When I wear it out its wont owe me anything.


Sounds like my 2004 VW. I used to love business trips to Orlando. They were ~550 miles, and it cost me less than $40 in fuel, plus per-diem. The 2004 cost me $5500 in 2011, and saved me $400 in fuel cost alone last year.  

https://fueleconomy.gov/


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## jebatty (Mar 6, 2018)

I ordered a jack off Ebay, and assuming the lug pattern is the same, I have both an extra full size wheel and a doughnut spare. But I too haven't had a flat in so many years that I can't remember the last time. My wife nailed a large pothole last year and flatted. Probably better to carry the jack and spare than be sorry. But then also there's the question of whether the lug nuts are on so tight that the short leverage of a lug nut wrench won't allow a person to get the flat tire wheel off. My tire shop says they tighten the lugs to spec, but I've had to use an impact wrench on occasion to get the lug nuts off for rotating tires. And also sometimes the wheel is corrosion welded to the hub, and great difficulty getting the wheel off, and I have used anti-seize paste on the wheel/hub contact points to prevent that problem.


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## Ashful (Mar 6, 2018)

Good move with the antisieze on hub and lugs.  Dealers should usually only tighten to 90’ish lb ft, and their mechanics are SUPPOSED to use torque sticks or torque limiting sockets on their impact tools to stay close to these numbers.  Some stubborn mechanics refuse to use them, but hopefully most of those guys have developed enough of a feel for it thru repetition, that they’re probably landing in that 80 - 100 lb ft window for most passenger cars.

The bigger issue is factory installed wheels on a brand new car.  They can be a real bugger to break loose, the first time.  I don’t know if the manufacturer puts thread locker those nuts, or what, but they can be work to get loose even with an impact tool.  Do this, before you end up on the side of the road with a flat.

I’ve never come across a lug I couldn’t break loose with some combination of swearing and jumping or stomping on the wrench.  But most of that work was in construction boots in my 20’s, not the loafers I wear to work today.  YMMV


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## woodgeek (Mar 6, 2018)

I got a breaker bar for the home rotation.  I'll let you know if I have a problem.

I thought anti-seize was not recommended for lugs....??


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## Ashful (Mar 6, 2018)

woodgeek said:


> I got a breaker bar for the home rotation.  I'll let you know if I have a problem.
> 
> I thought anti-seize was not recommended for lugs....??



I’ve done a once-initial application of anti-seize on the lugs of every tractor, car, and trailer I’ve owned for almost 30 years, and have never had one come loose.  This started on a mechanic’s advice, back before Al Gore invented the Internet, giving me the ability to research such things on my own.

However, my own experience with maybe 200 total wheels (1000 lug nuts?) is pretty small, compared to the data available out there today.  So, your question got me over to Google, where... wait for it... I found no real conclusion.  There’s so much forum debate on this subject, that if there is some credible study on it, I didn’t see it in my five or ten minutes of clicking around.

I did find countless folks, older than me, claiming they’ve been doing it 40 years without a single issue.  I’m likely to continue doing it myself, unless I see very credible advice to the contrary.  I’ve never had a lug nut loosen, after the application of anti-seize.


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## semipro (Mar 7, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Dealers should usually only tighten to 90’ish lb ft, and their mechanics are SUPPOSED to use torque sticks or torque limiting sockets on their impact tools to stay close to these numbers. Some stubborn mechanics refuse to use them, but hopefully most of those guys have developed enough of a feel for it thru repetition, that they’re probably landing in that 80 - 100 lb ft window for most passenger cars.


One of my pet peeves is over-torqued wheel nuts/bolts.   Not only are they hard to remove for tire changing but can also result in warped brake rotors.   I believe that improper use of torque sticks can also result in overtightening.  
I loosen and retorque mine after shop service using a torque wrench. 
I also apply oil or anti-seize to wheel studs/nuts (though not a lot) and have never had any related problems.


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## gregbesia (Mar 7, 2018)

Last year I tried to rotate tires on my Corolla. Front wheels came of with difficulty. Rear wheel would no come of no matter what. Found this guy on YouTube, thank God. Since then, anti size.


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## Ashful (Mar 7, 2018)

semipro said:


> One of my pet peeves is over-torqued wheel nuts/bolts.   Not only are they hard to remove for tire changing but can also result in warped brake rotors.   I believe that improper use of torque sticks can also result in overtightening.
> I loosen and retorque mine after shop service using a torque wrench.
> I also apply oil or anti-seize to wheel studs/nuts (though not a lot) and have never had any related problems.



Now here’s a mind-bender.  Lubing threads will cause the bolt (or lug nut) to reach a much higher tensile force value at the same torque value, due to the reduced thread friction.  For engine assembly, they often publish two torque values, “dry thread” and “lubed thread”.  This means that, when you torque a lug nut to 90 lb ft with anti-seize, it is actually much tighter (maybe double) that of the same bolt on dry threads.

I’ve never had an issue with warped brake rotors.  Would’ve that require uneven torquing?  It seems to me an equally torqued wheel, even if over spec, would not be especially susceptible to this.

Unevenly torqued lugs are in higher danger of coming loose, namely the ones torqued to lower values.


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## coutufr (Mar 7, 2018)

WiscWoody said:


> I’d like to buy a used Prius someday. My daily driver is a lowly 2000 Toyota Echo That I’ve had since it was a year old. It’s been hit twice now and I hit a deer with it and it has 266,000 on the clock so it’s the butt of many jokes here in the tiny town I live in but it keeps on going and I keep on driving it. Lol, I’ve done 51 full synthetic oil changes on it now. I have two Ford trucks also but the Echo is my go to vehicle most of the time.



Have you ever put high milleage oil addictive into your synthetic oil? I was recommended that by my mechanic for my 2003 corolla with 220k km.


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## Ashful (Mar 7, 2018)

Mobil 1 synth does have a high mileage version, although I’ve never looked into what makes or different.


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## Allagash350 (Mar 8, 2018)

T


jetsam said:


> I have a gas-only Honda Fit that gets pretty much those same numbers (though the other way around, low 40s on the highway and mid 30s in the city).  I always wonder if some of those hybrids are purposely designed for poor mileage so they don't compete with the gas guzzlers too much.



I don’t think so, but I guess it is possible. My dad had a 4cyl Camry and averaged around 28-30 I would say. The v6 gets in the low 20s. 
10 more mpg for similar pricing you would think there would be more on the road. 

The other factor with hybrids is not just your mpg but also the emissions. 

I just bought it for the mpg, size, and longevity. 
I am in sales and will most likely be averaging closer to 50k a year (miles not money) once I really get going (I started in September, and which is why I traded my truck for the Camry). That is what the other two reps average. One has a Lexus rx350 suv that averages 15-20 mpg, and the other has a brand new Denali 2500hd diesel. He is probably getting 14-18 tops. 
I’ll keep my mileage check and 40mpg over driving a flashy car


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## WiscWoody (Mar 13, 2018)

coutufr said:


> Have you ever put high milleage oil addictive into your synthetic oil? I was recommended that by my mechanic for my 2003 corolla with 220k km.


No, I usually use Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultimate synthetic oil, no additives. The engine uses very little oil as of yet about 1/2 quart between changes now.


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## coutufr (Mar 13, 2018)

I will keep doing exactly what I have been doing for the last 20 years for which I owned exclusively toyota products . Thanks


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## aaronk25 (Mar 14, 2018)

Ya mean ya don’t want to put some Marvin’s mystery oil in it to make it run better and care for that nice high mileage car?

Lol...MSDS sheet: mineral oil, red coloring and pig fat.....what a joke.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## WiscWoody (Mar 14, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Ya mean ya don’t want to put some Marvin’s mystery oil in it to make it run better and care for that nice high mileage car?
> 
> Lol...MSDS sheet: mineral oil, red coloring and pig fat.....what a joke.
> 
> ...


Well so much for the big mystery huh? Lol.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2018)

7acres said:


> , I'm no longer working from home and have a 20 mile commute (mostly highway). My normal vehicle is an Xterra which gets lousy gas mileage. My wife and I initially were considering an electric only vehicle. We needed to purchase used as well. Long story short, we decided the Prius line was a quality known quantity with great reviews.
> .


There are other good options.did you consider a used volt(best of both worlds) Electric when you have it ,Gas when you need it. Iv seen some nice used ones for around 12K.  Was considering one myself but have very little use for a commuter car. If they  had this powertrain in an SUV, id already have one.


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## begreen (Mar 17, 2018)

Seasoned Oak said:


> There are other good options.did you consider a used volt(best of both worlds) Electric when you have it ,Gas when you need it. Iv seen some nice used ones for around 12K.  Was considering one myself but have very little use for a commuter car. If they  had this powertrain in an SUV, id already have one.


Good suggestion. A friend picked one up a few months ago coming off of a 3 yr lease. He got a heckuva deal on a low mileage car.


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