# Worried about my hedge stack, please advise



## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

So I was doing the usual, calling uncles to see if the had any wood lying around I could cut for stacking and one of them had an interesting offer, which I took him up on.  He had some old hedge fenceposts that were piled up out in a pasture that he wanted to get rid of.  I don't know how old they are, when they were cut, how long they were actually used as fence posts or how long they had been stacked up in the pasture, but I took them anyway.  I cut them up in 16-18" lengths and stacked them on my rack at home.

I've burned plenty of hedge before but it was pretty wet, which was nice due to control the heat output.  I'm worried because 1) hedge burns hot as s... and 2) this stuff is hard as a brick, heavy as heck, practically petrified, so I'm thinking it could get out of hand quick, if I'm not careful.  I have a small Century CW2500 insert.  I tried to get some semi wet wood also, that I could put in with a piece of hedge, to try and tame it down.  I'm not sure what else to do to try and cut back on the heat output, if it burns too hot.  Sparks are my #3 worry...

Any thoughts?  Thanks!


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## Wood Duck (Sep 20, 2012)

At first I'd use only a little of the hedge, and I'd mix it with other dry woods, not with wet wood. Dry hedge is primo firewood and I'd hate to water it down with wet wood. One or two hedge splits in with your usual wood won't get too hot. I don't have any hedge but a lot of guys burn full loads of hege without problems.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

I've burned hedge before and I can tell you that if I put in a full load of dry hedge, I will quickly over fire my stove.  I burned a lot of hedge last winter and the winter before, but that wasn't fully dried hedge and it was the best burning wood that I've had so far.  I've been told to not burn hedge that's completely dried out because it gets uncontrollably hot, only burn wet hedge.  But, this was coming from a fire place guy, no EPA stove experience. I will start out very slowly and hopefully this turns out to be no big deal...

What do I do if I get myself into an over-fire situation?  Throw in the soaked toilet paper roll?  I've heard that's how you put out flue fires but that seems too extreme for an over-fire.  I definitely don't want to break my stove!


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

And yes, I understand that burning wet wood doesn't work in EPA stoves, I've went through that struggle too.  But hedge is just a different animal...  It's almost too good!  The terrible sparks on the other hand, I could live without.


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## lukem (Sep 20, 2012)

I routinely burn full (BKK full) loads of "petrified hedge" without issue.  Just sayin.

If the stove is overfiring it might be the stove or the operator's fault.  You could have an airleak that's not a problem with other wood...or you may not be damping back far enough.  

A full load of hedge lasts me about 24 hours....compared to about 14-16 with white oak.  Just put less in there and load a little more frequently.  Adding wet wood like like adding water to your gas if your car is driving too fast...it ain't good for it.  Just back of the accelerator a little.


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## Jags (Sep 20, 2012)

Whoa now. Get that notion of adding wet wood out of your head. It ain't good for nothing. If your stove is not controllable enough to burn good dry firewood (and I don't care what species) then we need to start talking about THAT as the issue. Maybe you are a candidate for a key damper??

Edit: I burn a fair amount of hedge, myself.  Never had an overfire problem.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

Thanks for the reply, the fact that you can do it gives me the comfort that I was looking for.  I feel like I can control the air supply fairly well and I do have a temp gauge to monitor things.  But, I don't feel like the air inlet on the century closes down that well, could just be me.  Like I said, I'll start slow and figure it out as my confidence grows.  And like you said, I'll put less in and load more as needed.

This will be my 3rd year burning.  My first year didn't go so well because I didn't have very good wood, didn't plan ahead well enough and learned a lot about EPA stoves.  Last year went great, we had good wood and I was better at controlling the fire.  I'm really looking forward to this year!  Because we burn for suplemental heat, I start a new fire every day after work, so I don't burn for those long periods of time.

Thanks again for the replys.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

I have ~23ft of insulated flexible liner in an exterior chimney and I feel like it drafts very well.  I'm not ready for a key damper just yet, I'd rather continue honing my skills before I go modifying my setup.

All I know is that hedge burns real hot and I've never burned any wood quite like the stuff I got now, brick hard very old hedge.  I just wanted to ask so I don't do something stupid and start burning something that isn't safe.  The only idea I had was to add some moisture to tame the too hot fire, if it came to that.  I was just trying to think ahead since I can't afford an over-fire with my family in the room.

Thanks for correcting me.


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## Jags (Sep 20, 2012)

EPA stoves DON'T close down all the way. It is by design to always have xx amount of air available to the fire. It is probably not a good practice, but some have modified the air intake to allow full closure (not recommended). BUT - on the other side of the combustion - the output (your chimney/stack) in some instances, like exceptionally tall chimneys - some install a pipe key damper. By closing down the amount of air that can escape up, you will limit the amount of air that can be sucked in.

Edit: you posted before me, so feel free to ignore the part on the key damper.  Good on ya for wanting to hone your practices, first.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

I understand how EPA stoves work, in a basic sense, and my secondaries work well.  I also understand the concept of a key damper, at this time I'm not ready for that.  Thank you for the explaination and suggestions, I'm always trying to improve my burning skills!


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## nola mike (Sep 20, 2012)

I have the same stove.  Though I haven't burned hedge, i've burned full loads of 2x4's, small split pine, eco-bricks packed in there, etc.  Never come close to an overfire.  I'd start with just a smaller load than usual and keep an eye on it.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

I put my temp gauge (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200405865_200405865) on the top left corner, on the front of the stove.  This particular stove, you can't measure the stove top temp, so I figured this is the next best location.  I start to get worried when it gets over the 700 mark and the secondary tubes start to glow orange.  Is that getting close to over-fire?  That's when I start to get worried anyway... Also about that time, we notice a drastic increase in heat output.


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## nola mike (Sep 20, 2012)

I clip a candy thermometer in the air gap above the stove, I find that it's a more consistent measure of stove temps than what's on the front (which varies widely, depending on how the stove is loaded).  My secondaries also glow when the thing is cranking, FWIW.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 20, 2012)

Fence posts? Were they treated? I'd want to know before burning any in the stove.


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## Nixon (Sep 20, 2012)

I very much doubt that they were treated . Hedge last for donkeys years all by itself . Probably would out last BL .


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## Thistle (Sep 20, 2012)

They will.Even stronger too. My paternal grandfather in NW Missouri set some hedge posts back in the '30s & '40s,he died in '72 & the 160 acre farm changed owners twice since then.I get down that way a couple times yearly & last I checked most all looked pretty good.Dad told me 'he preferred line posts 6in diameter on small end & 7 ft long,corner posts 9 in diameter & 9 ft long'

Glad I didnt have to dig the holes or move the posts later on......   Most would've gotten cut off flush with the ground.


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

There is no sign of treatment or damage from... anything. These are old old, like I said, practically petrified.  But look very burnable!


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## lukem (Sep 20, 2012)

I dug out and old driveway with a skidsteer last weekend.  There was a 4" diameter hedge stump that had been buried for 30 years.  85HP skidsteer could barely scratch it up...let alone get it out.  Amazing stuff that hedge.


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## osagebow (Sep 20, 2012)

What's the deal with the wet toilet paper? Is that an effective way to take an EPA stove thats overfiring? Have a key damper, bit intrigued by that.

Enjoy that hedge, KSgrown!


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## midwestcoast (Sep 20, 2012)

Sounds like you've got it under control KS.  

But it also sounds to me like who-ever told you not to burn dry Hedge didn't know what they were talking about.

I've never had the pleasure of burning it, so maybe I should just keep quiet, but based on every other wood I've burned and everything I've learned here or elsewhere: the more dense the wood, the longer and slower the burn. Hedge, is as about as dense as wood gets in N.America, should burn long & slow. That's what makes it such great firewood.

Someone who burns dry Hedge regularly come back me up on that?


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## KSgrown (Sep 20, 2012)

The thing about hedge is that it burns very, very hot and it sparks a lot.

Back when I was first learning about burning in a stove and trying to stay safe about it, I read that if you get a flue or chimney fire, then you should dunk a roll of toilet paper in the toilet or something, to get it soaking wet, then toss it in the fire and shut down the door.  The soaking roll of paper turns to steam and will extinguish the creosote fire.  Is it true?  I have no idea, but it sounded good so I stored that away in my burning memory bank, just in case I get into a scary situation like that, hopefully save the house from burning down.


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## Jags (Sep 21, 2012)

For those that are not familiar - hedge is about the closest thing to hard coal that there is in the living world.  Very dense with a high energy content per stick.  Best used on an established fire because it can be slow going to get it to light off from a cold start.  It does produce copious amounts of heat, but it is still controllable.  It has everything to do with combustion air and the control of the stove.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 21, 2012)

KSgrown said:


> The thing about hedge is that it burns very, very hot and it sparks a lot.
> 
> Back when I was first learning about burning in a stove and trying to stay safe about it, I read that if you get a flue or chimney fire, then you should dunk a roll of toilet paper in the toilet or something, to get it soaking wet, then toss it in the fire and shut down the door. The soaking roll of paper turns to steam and will extinguish the creosote fire. Is it true? I have no idea, but it sounded good so I stored that away in my burning memory bank, just in case I get into a scary situation like that, hopefully save the house from burning down.


 
I've heard that but if I had a chimney fire, opening that firebox door would be the last thing I'd want to do.


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## tfdchief (Sep 21, 2012)

OK, I have read this thread. Lots of good advise. Lots of accurate info. I burned nothing but hedge for many years. It burns hot, it sparks a lot, but it is great wood and produces tons of heat. I always controlled things by how much I loaded in the stove. Less wood, less chance of over fire. Every stove is different. You have to figure out what you need to do in YOUR stove. Hedge is so dense and burns so hot it often takes less to produce the same amount of heat and last as long as other species. So start out with small loads and work your way up in YOUR stove until you find the right combination. Just an old wood burners opinion.  As for a chimney fire.....keep your flue clean by whatever method and don't have one!  That's my advise.


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## ScotO (Sep 21, 2012)

Great info on this thread.  And as Jags and others have already told you, the last thing you want to do is put wet wood in that stove.......that's completely nullifying the benefits of burning hedge in the first place, and its also putting creosote into your flue..  I would REALLY be considering doing as Jags said and look at installing a key damper.  They,  when used properly, can add whole new element of control especially if you have a really strong draft.


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## BIGDADDY (Sep 22, 2012)

I never heard of hedge wood. Are you talking about a specific species of tree or just any old wood you find in a hedge row?


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## Thistle (Sep 22, 2012)

BIGDADDY said:


> I never heard of hedge wood. Are you talking about a specific species of tree or just any old wood you find in a hedge row?


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osage_orange  Years ago (starting in the mid 1800's before the invention of barbed wire for fencing) it was planted for shelterbelts & hedgerows across the great plains,midwest,parts of the southern & eastern US. Still can be found in quite a few areas,these are older abandoned hedgerows or ones that have been cut down & resprouted several times.Very hardy trees,once the shallow root system is established,its difficult to remove entirely,except by dozing it out.Even that isnt always successful.

Lots of it still in eastern Kansas/Nebraska,NW Missouri,southern Iowa,all the way across Illinois east to Pennsylvania up to parts of NY state. Very resilient.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 24, 2012)

tfdchief said:


> OK, I have read this thread. Lots of good advise. Lots of accurate info. I burned nothing but hedge for many years. It burns hot, it sparks a lot, but it is great wood and produces tons of heat. I always controlled things by how much I loaded in the stove. Less wood, less chance of over fire. Every stove is different. You have to figure out what you need to do in YOUR stove. Hedge is so dense and burns so hot it often takes less to produce the same amount of heat and last as long as other species. So start out with small loads and work your way up in YOUR stove until you find the right combination. Just an old wood burners opinion.* As for a chimney fire.....keep your flue clean by whatever method and don't have one!* That's my advise.


 
The perennial question asked each year by newbies . . . "What should I do if I have a chimney fire?"

Everyone comes out listing various tips and tricks, but I'm with Steve . . . best answer is to run your stove at the proper temps, burn seasoned wood and inspect and clean your chimney when needed to avoid having one . . . because it may sound crazy, but us firefighters are not all that thrilled about getting up on a steep, snow-covered roof at 2 a.m. in middle of a snowstorm in January . . . prevention is so much nicer for everyone involved.


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## KSgrown (Sep 24, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> The perennial question asked each year by newbies . . . "What should I do if I have a chimney fire?"


 
Don't you feel like this is a legitimate question for anyone who is "playing with fire", in order to protect their family and personal property?  Especially for a newcomer to the hobby!  Of course I purchased flue cleaning equipment at the same time that I purchase my insert, and I also clean my flue each fall before I burn anything.  I made sure to get a stove mounted thermostat so I can not only watch for too high of temps but also make sure I don’t get too cold.  I also bought a moisture meter to double check that I’m burning dry wood.  With all this being said, I’m not going to burn a single stick if I don’t have a plan of action to deal with accidents and that includes a chimney fire.

I don’t plan on having an electrical fire but that doesn’t mean I’m taking down my smoke alarm because I know my house is wired correctly.  I’m not disabling my air bags because I’m too good of a driver to get into a wreck.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 24, 2012)

KSgrown said:


> Don't you feel like this is a legitimate question for anyone who is "playing with fire", in order to protect their family and personal property? Especially for a newcomer to the hobby! Of course I purchased flue cleaning equipment at the same time that I purchase my insert, and I also clean my flue each fall before I burn anything. I made sure to get a stove mounted thermostat so I can not only watch for too high of temps but also make sure I don’t get too cold. I also bought a moisture meter to double check that I’m burning dry wood. With all this being said, I’m not going to burn a single stick if I don’t have a plan of action to deal with accidents and that includes a chimney fire.
> 
> I don’t plan on having an electrical fire but that doesn’t mean I’m taking down my smoke alarm because I know my house is wired correctly. I’m not disabling my air bags because I’m too good of a driver to get into a wreck.


 
Normal to ask . . . sure. But the reality is if folks start out with seasoned wood, run their woodstove at the correct temps and regularly inspect and clean their chimney they should never even need to worry about a chimney fire.

There are many, many folks here with many more years of experience of burning wood who have never had a chimney fire.

As for the analogies . . . they don't quite work for me since with a woodstove you are often the one controlling things -- i.e. if a person burns unseasoned wood, doesn't run their stove/chimney hot enough and doesn't inspect or clean their chimneys on a regular basis then it shouldn't be such a surprise to have a chimney fire . . . whereas turning off an airbag or not wearing seatbelts because one is a good driver doesn't always work since it may be the other driver that runs into your vehicle . . . and taking down smoke detectors because the house is wired correctly is fine -- except that fires can start in many different ways, not just electrical.

That said . . . I think you and I both agree that it is a legitimate question to ask . . . and that folks should know what they can do in case of a chimney fire (incidentally calling 911 should be on top of that list) and in fact I've posted many a time about some of the tips of the trade that folks can utilize that are known to work (i.e. firing off an ABC extinguisher in to the stove/clean out, on masonry chimneys with clean outs using some water on hot embers to produce steam, etc.), but my point I was making is that many newbies are concerned about a problem that often need not exist with some basic prevention (good wood, hot enough temps and proper maintainance).


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## KSgrown (Sep 24, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> As for the analogies . . . they don't quite work for me . . . turning off an airbag or not wearing seatbelts because one is a good driver doesn't always work since it may be the other driver that runs into your vehicle . . .


 
It does work, because I am TOO good of a driver, I don't get into wrecks, therefore no need to deal with the consequences of having a wreck. The analogy was not to be taken literally, but thanks for explaining your interpretation.

Regardless, newbies should not be made to feel stupid for asking that question and deserve a proper answer, one that is not "don't have chimney fires."  What if I'm at a friends or relatives house and they experience a chimney/flue fire? Telling them to burn dry wood isn't going to help anyone.  I am here to gain information, not to get ridiculed if I ask a question that someone who has been burning for 45 years thinks is dumb.  This last statement applies to the OP, Osage Orange that is 15+ years old (probably twice that), I have no idea how it will react inside of a stove.  Thankfully, lukem and tfdchief have and they both gave me the answer that I needed. This thread was not started to address chimney fires and I'd like to keep it that way.  Any experience with extremely old osage orange, hedge, yellow wood, hedge apple tree, whatever you want to call it, let me know about it.  Thanks.


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## tfdchief (Sep 24, 2012)

KS,  I think you took Jake wrong.  He was trying to help.  Us firefighters just desperately don't want you to have a chimney fire.  They can be really dangerous from so many perspectives.  First of all they will certainly test the integrity of your system.  If it has a flaw, it is sure to manifest itself in an extension of the flue fire to your structure.  Even if it holds up, it may ruin the chimney. So be as sure as you can that your system is in good safe condition.  Then good burning habits are so important.  And I think that means more than dry wood.  You need to get to know your stove and chimney well, how it reacts to all burning situations, dense wood, dry wood, different species, high wind, barometric pressure and humidity, size of the load, etc. Start small and work your way up.   And of course smoke detectors and CO detectors. Here is another chimney fire remedy you might want to have on hand for insurance. Chimfex


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## Jags (Sep 24, 2012)

Ya gotta admit it is a good question - as stated above - what about at a friends or relatives and something happens outside of the known elements under your own control (or your neighbor is yelling).

Come on hose draggers - just answer the darn question.

^^^^ - this, of course is in the most respectful sense


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## BIGDADDY (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm a hose dragger but not a fireman. I try not to be so sensitive. Everyone has their own communication style.
I think we should all have a plan in case of any kind of fire. An exit stragedy and meeting place outside the house. Like Jake was saying I believe and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure or someone said that once. 
Happy burning everyone.
How bout that hedge wood!


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## Jags (Sep 24, 2012)

tfdchief said:


> Chimfex


 
I have one of the originals - you know - BEFORE the factory burned down.


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## tfdchief (Sep 24, 2012)

Call the "hose draggers" 
OK but, just remember, chimney fires are dangerous!  Things that can be done AFTER you call the "hose draggers"

Shut all the air down that you can, damper, key damper, primary air, secondary air.  A chimney fire creates an incredible draft so shutting it down is difficult.  See what happens.  If that doesn't work, carefully open the door, it may be a raging inferno in the fire box, or it may not be, but be prepared.  (As Jake once said, _"don't do it in your jammies"_)  Then place wadded up wet paper towels, or a Chimfex stick, or baggies with dry chemical fire extinguisher powder, into the fire box and shut the door.  If you must use water, use very little to create steam up the chimney.  Water can damage your stove and the steam can come back in your face and burn you.   If you can safely get to the roof, dry chemical fire extinguisher powder in a plastic bag thrown down the chimney sometimes works.  Have someone else monitor the chimney if you can access it.  It is going to be HOT.  Chimney fires are very difficult to control and often burn themselves out before you can do anything.  Sometimes the burning creosote causes a clogged chimney and the chimney fire is then burning below the clogged area with no where to go.  It will then, likely come out the fire box door when you open it.  CLOSE IT and wait for the fire department.  They have ways to deal with that. Either way, you MUST call the fire department.  They can check for extension to the structure.  They have thermal imaging cameras that can detect a fire in the wall that might smolder for a long time. 

I hope this helps.  I am sure I have left something out.  All chimney fires are not the same. 

Chief


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2012)

KSgrown said:


> It does work, because I am TOO good of a driver, I don't get into wrecks, therefore no need to deal with the consequences of having a wreck. The analogy was not to be taken literally, but thanks for explaining your interpretation.
> 
> Regardless, newbies should not be made to feel stupid for asking that question and deserve a proper answer, one that is not "don't have chimney fires." What if I'm at a friends or relatives house and they experience a chimney/flue fire? Telling them to burn dry wood isn't going to help anyone. I am here to gain information, not to get ridiculed if I ask a question that someone who has been burning for 45 years thinks is dumb. This last statement applies to the OP, Osage Orange that is 15+ years old (probably twice that), I have no idea how it will react inside of a stove. Thankfully, lukem and tfdchief have and they both gave me the answer that I needed. This thread was not started to address chimney fires and I'd like to keep it that way. Any experience with extremely old osage orange, hedge, yellow wood, hedge apple tree, whatever you want to call it, let me know about it. Thanks.


 
You may rest assured that the intention was not to make anyone feel stupid . . . that's one reason this is my favorite site . . . it doesn't matter if you've joined the day before or five years ago . . . everyone is welcome and all input is appreciated . . . folks that ask questions -- even if they've been asked a bazillion times before (i.e. What type of stove should I get? Why doesn't my new-fangled woodstove work? etc.) are patiently answered instead of being brusquely told to do a search.

Rather, my intent was to suggest that while the concern is legitimate . . . you can avoid even having to worry about this situation in most cases by running the stove properly, following the proper installation directions, burning seasoned wood and checking/cleaning the stove regularly. I sincerely apologize if you think I was ridiculing you as that is not the way I roll.

Since you asked . . . and Jags is "needling" me a bit . . . if a chimney fire did break out I would suggest several options.

1. Call 911 . . . first and foremost. You may not need the firefighters . . . but better to have them on their way. You can always call back and inform them that the fire is under control.

2. Cut off the air to the stove and chimney. Block the incoming air of the stove (it behooves folks to find out where the air comes into their stove) . . . you can use some aluminum foil. This may be more difficult with inserts. The fire will most likely continue to burn, but without a good draft moving through the fire may slow down some.

3. On masonry chimneys with clean outs (we see a lot of these up here still vs. installs with liners, Class A, etc.) you can open up the clean out and fire an ABC dry chemical extinguisher or if any hot embers drop down you can sprinkle a little water on them which will convert to steam.

4. With stoves with "direct" connections with a liner, Class A, etc. you may have some luck in opening up the door and firing off the extinguisher or throwing on some water soaked newspaper -- but honestly we try not to do this in the FD . . . partly because of the mess and because of the possible damage to the stove.

5. Our preferred method of extinguishment involves getting on a roof and dropping down "chimney bombs" of ABC dry chemical extinguishing agent in plastic Ziplock baggies . . . or we drop a brush down . . . or sadly in most cases, and these seem to be the ones we always get called out to . . . drop a heavy steel weight and chain down the chimney. to knock out the creosote plug that is often formed.


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## KSgrown (Sep 25, 2012)

I appreciate the apology and the explanation. You didn't necessarily make me feel stupid, as I have prepared myself to not have a chimney fire in the first place, as I explained many times. It was when you stepped in and changed the direction of this thread with this comment, which I felt was unnecessary:



firefighterjake said:


> The perennial question asked each year by newbies . . . "What should I do if I have a chimney fire?"


I don't doubt that it gets asked a lot and I'm not questioning the idea to preach prevention. I understand that it is your job to educate the people that will listen, on how to prevent fires, and then go put the fires out when others don't listen, unfortunately.

It's sad when I have reservations about starting a thread for fear of people picking apart my every word to tell me I'm doing it wrong... Sure enough, when I merely mentioned the idea of adding semi wet wood to tame a fire that became too hot while burning petrified hedge, it turned into me needing a key damper and destined for a chimney fire. Ok I get it, adding partially wet wood is a bad idea, even if my fire is getting too hot and I'd like to cool it down so I can regain control. You know what? I'd rather create a little creosote to calm down an over-fire and clean it up later, then risk damaging my stove from too high temperature. And this whole thread is based on "what-if" scenarios, I'm not practicing bad habits here, just asking questions about wood that I am unfamiliar with.


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## KSgrown (Sep 25, 2012)

KSgrown said:


> It's sad when I have reservations about starting a thread for fear of people picking apart my every word to tell me I'm doing it wrong...


 
I'm obviously just venting at this point, sorry about this rant. It just got under my skin a little when I ask a simple question about a very unique species of wood and the comments start focusing on my setup, my operation skills, my burning techniques, etc... I'm not usually this sensitive and the chimney fire comments weren't out of line.  Sorry if I lashed out a little too much on some of my comments, I know there wasn't any malicious intent with anything said in my direction.

Thanks for everyones input.
As Dennis would say, Keep Smiling!


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## firefighterjake (Sep 25, 2012)

KSgrown said:


> I'm obviously just venting at this point, sorry about this rant. It just got under my skin a little when I ask a simple question about a very unique species of wood and the comments start focusing on my setup, my operation skills, my burning techniques, etc... I'm not usually this sensitive and the chimney fire comments weren't out of line. Sorry if I lashed out a little too much on some of my comments, I know there wasn't any malicious intent with anything said in my direction.
> 
> Thanks for everyones input.
> As Dennis would say, Keep Smiling!


 
No worries . . . it's all good! 

And unfortunately . . . I don't have much experience with osage orange or any of those really good woods other than a bit of black locust . . . and I've only burned some of that in a camp fire as it wasn't seasoned enough to my liking.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 25, 2012)

Actually I think this tread has a great ending. Sometimes it pays to look twice at the words you have chosen and think how others might interpret them. Personally, I've started to answer posts and actually deleted everything I typed after reading them because I thought someone might be hurt when reading it. Words do have power; power to instruct, power to please and power to hurt. Let's choose wisely whenever possible.


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## jjholb99 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have really enjoyed the arc of this thread...ended up providing lots of good info from both the wood burning AND chimney fire perspectives.

KSgrown: I have installed a CW2500 and begun to use it this week. Have you done any more experimentation regarding controlling/preventing over firing? As was mentioned early on in the thread, the controls on this stove affect only primary air, not secondary. The last fire I had in it ended up with a beautiful secondary burn (logs added to full bed of coals, fire box approx 2/3 full). The thing is, my inlet damper ended up at fully closed position. Not a problem on a calm night, but what if a steady breeze outside upped my draft? I know I can keep an eye on the weather and compensate by using less fuel, but I'd sure like to have more control.

I saw key dampers mentioned before, but that might not be very practical in this insert stove.

I haven't looked closely enough yet - is there a way to access the secondary air inlet on this particular stove? Wondering if it could be blocked off in an urgent situation? (As Jake eluded to earlier.)

I also have some questions about the blower, but I'll save them for a follow up post.

Thanks all....

Jim


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## KSgrown (Nov 17, 2012)

jjholb99 said:


> KSgrown: I have installed a CW2500 and begun to use it this week. Have you done any more experimentation regarding controlling/preventing over firing? As was mentioned early on in the thread, the controls on this stove affect only primary air, not secondary. The last fire I had in it ended up with a beautiful secondary burn (logs added to full bed of coals, fire box approx 2/3 full). The thing is, my inlet damper ended up at fully closed position. Not a problem on a calm night, but what if a steady breeze outside upped my draft? I know I can keep an eye on the weather and compensate by using less fuel, but I'd sure like to have more control.
> 
> I saw key dampers mentioned before, but that might not be very practical in this insert stove.
> 
> I haven't looked closely enough yet - is there a way to access the secondary air inlet on this particular stove? Wondering if it could be blocked off in an urgent situation? (As Jake eluded to earlier.)


 
Jim,
I think I can help a little with your questions.  I will say that the few times that my stove has gotten really hot, it has seemed to level out finally and not end up being a problem.  I just shut down the primary air as much as I can and keep an eye on it, it has never over fired.  Now could it happen that the right weather conditions induce more draft?  Probably but I haven't had that problem.  I really wish there was a more accurate way of getting the flue or stove top temperatures, but I can't access my flue very easy and there really isn't a traditional "stove top" on the CW2500.  I also agree that a key damper isn't very practical on this insert.

About the secondary air inlet, I emailed some people at SBI International shortly after I got my stove in 2010 when I was researching if I could use outside air as combustion air.  The first response wasn't helpful but after I asked the right questions, they got me someone who could give a good answer.  I was asking if there was a way to attach an outside air kit for this stove, to provide combustion air directly from outside, as it mentions in the manual.  This was his answer, I pulled out the good parts from two different emails:
"Hello Doug, the primary air intake is controlled by the ‘air control’ at the front of the stove. The secondary air intake cannot be seen from the unit but feeds the secondary air tubes. "
"There is no fresh air kit for the insert. The reference to make up air in the manual is when there is a negative pressure problem in the house causing draft problem"
"Secondary air tubes are feed from the rear of the base the air travels up the enclosed channels and fed directly to the tubes and when the firebox is hot + fresh air + smoke from the fire below = combustion in the upper area of the firebox…..this is  normally seen as something similar to how a burner on a propane BBQ is seen."

I hope that helps answer your question!  He also sent me some 3D isometric views from a CAD program.  If you want to see them you can PM me and I can email them.  I actually didn't find them to be useful and I use CAD almost everyday.  They didn't cut the section in the right spot to see the secondary air path.


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## ailanthus (Nov 17, 2012)

I've got some 20+ year old BL that was stored in a neighbors metal-roofed shed (i.e. kiln?) in my stacks for this year.  It's got me a little nervous, too.  Planning on starting with small loads & work my way up.  I have a 28' chimney and have a key damper to help control things as well.  Good luck.


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## nola mike (Nov 17, 2012)

No, you can't shut down the secondary air.  The bigger question is how do you know you're overfiring on an insert? I've had this one for 3 years, and still struggle with it.  Can't measure stack or stovetop temps.


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## jjholb99 (Nov 17, 2012)

Thanks for the response KSgrown - you confirmed my hunches. Like nolamike points out, we're limited in what we can see with the inserts. On days when the draft might be increased, I suppose I will just start small and build gradually.

Regarding my questions about the CW2500's blower, should I continue on in this thread or start another?

TY!


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