# If you could do it over again - which stove would you choose?



## mminor (Jan 17, 2017)

Considering your same house, same room and same stove location and knowing what you know now - which stove would you choose if you were given a 2nd chance?

1) Which stove / insert / ZC FP do you have now?

2) Which stove / insert / ZC FP would you go with if given a chance at a do-over and why?


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## Tegbert (Jan 17, 2017)

1- lopi rockport

2- not sure but would probably try a blaze king only because of the long burn times. But whatever it would be I would chose a stove that could accept the same length logs n-s and e-w as that is really my only pet peeve in my stove now. Other than that since someone is always home the super long burn times are not a huge need as the ~10 hour burn time for mine is good enough for me. 


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## Supersurvey (Jan 17, 2017)

Hampton HI200 changed to HI300 for longer burn times.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 17, 2017)

1) Jotul Oslo

2) Jotul Oslo (only in the blue black enamel instead of matte black) . . . although I might be sorely tempted to go with the F-600 or maybe the Woodstock PH.


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## bholler (Jan 17, 2017)

1. Regency 3100

2. what ever I come across at a good price that I think may work well for me.  There are a few I will not consider but many I would be willing to give a shot.

If I am ever get around to putting a stove upstairs to it would probably be a cast one jotul hampton ashford just not a vc lol.


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## Highbeam (Jan 17, 2017)

You can do it over again! I did.

1) First stove in this house after removing a Lopi Freedom insert along with the masonry was a hearthstone heritage. It was a pretty stove and performed per the specs. It could burn overnight barely and I was always starting new fires. Used lots of wood, high flue temps, inefficient design. The nail in the coffin on the hearthstone was the hinges and door latches wearing out rapidly which is not repairable without a full rebuild. Not cool, that stove was not made for long service.

2) On the advice of owners from this forum I was convinced to switch to a Woodstock or Blaze king cat stove for long burns with easy overnight burns. Sold the hearthstone in August for exactly what I bought it for and bought a new BK. The Woodstock wouldn't fit on the hearth with the goofy rear exit. The BK is excellent in my relatively moderate climate and well insulated house. I can usually get 24 burns with it.

Happy camper. Don't suffer with a stove you don't like. Try to sell it and then get your dream stove. They are relatively cheap compared to cars or guns.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 17, 2017)

1 Englander madison

2 blaze king princess. For the long burn times.  Once I finally get the barn up englander might go there though[emoji848]


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## bcrtops (Jan 17, 2017)

1)  PE Alderlea T5

2)  Not sure.  We like/love the T5.  Being retired & getting old we would like the firebox/door up higher.  Some of the contemporaries like the PE Neo, or the Quad Discovery series, though the look doesn't really fit our old house.  Maybe build a stepped hearth & just raise the T5 up?  Would take a look at the BK's, but not sure I'd drink the kool-aid.  I am pretty much sold on the simplicity of the PE line & its baffle system.


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## CentralVAWoodHeat (Jan 17, 2017)

1) Jotul Castine

2) PE T6.  The Castine was our first EPA stove and it was recommended we go with a smaller stove so as not to overheat the main room.  Bad advice.  The stove is too small.  Also, the local dealer that sells PE Stoves is way more supportive of their products and actually services them if need be.  I've come to find our Jotul dealer does not.  Add that to the fact that it is impossible to get in touch with Jotul directly, despite phone numbers on hearth or elsewhere.


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## electrathon (Jan 17, 2017)

Have a hearthstone heritage.  Pretty stove, gobbles up wood, puts out little heat, very short burn times.

Likely would replace it with a Blaze king.  Previous stove was one.  Used less wood, made way more heat, similar burn times.


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## webby3650 (Jan 17, 2017)

I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks!
I don't feel like I can really chime in on the previous/next thing, but I like seeing the personal experiences.


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## JulieInColorado (Jan 17, 2017)

Hi-I just purchased a house that was build in 1943 and I am removing the old stove.  I am wondering if anyone has information to share as I'm going to attempt to sell it (if it's worth anything) or give it away to whomever will move it.  It measures 34" high, 26" wide and 19" deep.  Everything is intact except the cellophane type material on the door.  Its brown with a black-ish stain on it.  

I am sorry to barge in on the thread but I can't for the life of me figure out how to start a new topic...

Any help would be appreciated!


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## bholler (Jan 17, 2017)

electrathon said:


> Have a hearthstone heritage. Pretty stove, gobbles up wood, puts out little heat, very short burn times.


Isnt that the one you put a water coil in that was heating so well?


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## electrathon (Jan 17, 2017)

bholler said:


> Isnt that the one you put a water coil in that was heating so well?


Yes, the output of the stove was not changed by the coil if that is what you mean.  It can heat 50 gallons of water about two times in 24 hours, depending on how hard I am pushing the stove. 

I generally put in two or three pieces of wood every couple hours.  It has been cold here (in the teens) and I decided to try again loading it full like many here recommend.  I loaded the stove as full as I could, about 3 times as much as usual.  The heat output was about the same as I usually get, maybe a tad more.  Two hours later I was out of wood, down to coals and needed to load it again.  I would just like to be able to get my living room warmer than mid 60's.  I have been having to supplement with my furnace.

Adding this info as an edit so I do not bump the thread over a hijack:  I had one of the guys I work with run some BTU numbers.  Rounded off some things due to so many variables.  Assumed BTU of the stove was 60,000  Two tanks of water raised from 50 degrees to 110 degrees.  Here is the big one, water coil located inside the firebox.  This would use up about 3.5 percent of the heat output of the stove.  Not huge, but not a nothing change.  Here is the issue though, the coil is located above the heat baffle plate.  The system coil almost operated as a stack robber.  I understand that a stack robber really removes almost no output from the stove, but gets its output from waste heat.  At the most the water heating system would draw about 1 to 2 percent of the stove heat, likely way less, but I wanted to be generous.  When I first put the coil in I did some tests of the stove temp and couldn't really find and difference.  A slight difference in the loaded wood or fire size would affect the output more than the coil does.


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## webby3650 (Jan 17, 2017)

electrathon said:


> Yes, the output of the stove was not changed by the coil if that is what you mean.  It can heat 50 gallons of water about two times in 24 hours, depending on how hard I am pushing the stove.
> 
> I generally put in two or three pieces of wood every couple hours.  It has been cold here (in the teens) and I decided to try again loading it full like many here recommend.  I loaded the stove as full as I could, about 3 times as much as usual.  The heat output was about the same as I usually get, maybe a tad more.  Two hours later I was out of wood, down to coals and needed to load it again.  I would just like to be able to get my living room warmer than mid 60's.  I have been having to supplement with my furnace.


Unfortunately this is the experience with many soapstone stove users. More wood doesn't necessarily equate to more heat, just more heat up the flue... The stone can't release any more heat no matter how much wood goes into the box.


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## bholler (Jan 17, 2017)

electrathon said:


> Yes, the output of the stove was not changed by the coil if that is what you mean. It can heat 50 gallons of water about two times in 24 hours, depending on how hard I am pushing the stove.


So you take the btus out to heat the water and you have not changed the heating characteristics?  You cant modify a stove and then complain it doesn't work right I am sorry.


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## electrathon (Jan 17, 2017)

bholler said:


> So you take the btus out to heat the water and you have not changed the heating characteristics?  You cant modify a stove and then complain it doesn't work right I am sorry.


I complained about the lack of heat output years before I added the coil.  I was disappointed from the beginning.  If the room heat output dropped I would have pulled the coil back out immediately.  The coil is not in the firebox, it is above the baffle.  It is by design closer to a stack robber.


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## webby3650 (Jan 17, 2017)

electrathon said:


> I complained about the lack of heat output years before I added the coil.  I was disappointed from the beginning.  If the room heat output dropped I would have pulled the coil back out immediately.  The coil is not in the firebox, it is above the baffle.  It is by design closer to a stack robber.


It was a nice try. I applaud you!


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## electrathon (Jan 17, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Unfortunately this is the experience with many soapstone stove users. More wood doesn't necessarily equate to more heat, just more heat up the flue... The stone can't release any more heat no matter how much wood goes into the box.


Unfortunately I figured this out after I bought the stove.  Another real annoying thing is that if you load through the front door it almost always drops ashes every time you open it.  Not sure how many other brands of stoves do this.


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## webby3650 (Jan 17, 2017)

electrathon said:


> Unfortunately I figured this out after I bought the stove.  Another real annoying thing is that if you load through the front door it almost always drops ashes every time you open it.  Not sure how many other brands of stoves do this.


Most all side loaders that I've ever seen...


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## electrathon (Jan 17, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Most all side loaders that I've ever seen...


On this stove the side door works well.  Little ash falls out, most smoke stays in the stove.  Open the front door and ash and smoke escapes.  That was actually the first thing that the stove store told me about the stove:  Use the side door, not the front door.


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## blacktail (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Lopi Republic 1250i
2. Lopi Republic 1750i or PE Super

My little insert does ok most of the time but more heat/longer burns would be nice during the few times when we get colder than normal. The bigger inserts would also do NS loading without having to cut my wood in short lengths.


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## cableman (Jan 18, 2017)

Hampton hi300
Great insert and heats my house well, but if it was 1 year later...

Blazeking sirocco 25 for the huge glass and auto adjusting long burn times. I feel like im always adjusting the hampton.

Would also consider lowering my hearth so i can fit an ideal steel just inside the fireplace which would eliminate the insert fan. This stove would have been my 1st choice if i didnt have a fireplace altogether


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## Wickets (Jan 18, 2017)

hearthstone heritage

looking for anything that isnt a hearthstone heritage


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## electrathon (Jan 18, 2017)

Wickets said:


> hearthstone heritage
> 
> looking for anything that isnt a hearthstone heritage


I feel your pain!  It is like we are in a club that we didn't ask to join.


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## DUMF (Jan 18, 2017)

Under the Need to Know reg here it is ( with extreme prejudice ):

*VC 2550 ENCORE *IF and only if it had been designed and made under the KISS engineering rule.
 Why ? Let me count the ways many copied by later stoves---
1. Top loading ( for those really heating with wood this is easy loading)
2. Elegant, beautiful design....romantic (in red porcelain)  if you have the chops
3. Long burns
4. Simple ash pan system
5. Easy temperature control
6. Well thought out secondary air thermostatically controlled
7. Nice wood handle controls for temp and cat
8. When all systems in this beast are operating correctly, it WAS an exceptional heater. ( not too often over time )

Now all you BK enthusiasts, come on down.


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## snavematt (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Current new Stove Explorer II ( I am happy with it)
2. I would've loved to have a blaze king King, but wife wasn't having it.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 18, 2017)

*Woodstock Progress Hybrid*

*Woodstock Progress Hybrid* - stove has met or exceeded my every expectation.  Beautiful looks, long burn times, tremendous heat, sips wood, and best ash pan system in the industry (IMO).  Almost every new visitor to my home immediately compliments me on the beauty of the stove.  I do 12 hour burns to accommodate  my schedule (don't need or want 24 hour black glass smolders), but have gone as long as 16 hours.  Glass and chimney remains clear even in full cat burn mode.  I can easily get 12 to 14 hours on 5 to 6 medium splits - but I live in the south east (Smoky Mountain area), and the weather is moderate.


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## toddnic (Jan 18, 2017)

1) Progress Hybrid

2) Progress Hybrid - absolutely no negatives regarding this woodstove, wood use, and the size of our house.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 18, 2017)

Have:  VC Encore 2250
            VC Defiant 1945

Want:  for my cabin I would like a simpler stove due to more people other than myself using it. It's hard to find a stove as beautiful as a Vermont with side shelves and a top loader though.  A cat stove is not needed here so as of right now I would say a PE T5. 
For my house I do really like having a cat stove. I have a 1400 square foot ranch style and my Encore can heat us out in milder outdoor temps. So it is nice to be able to turn her down. I have been leaning towards an Ashford. The BK is not as good looking as the Encore (in my opinion that is) but everything I have been reading here about customer service and function has me sold. I guess if Ashful is going to have like 15 BK stoves in his house they have to be a pretty good stove.


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## Mike M. (Jan 18, 2017)

(Basement Install)

1 - 30 NCH

2 - PE Summit 

Nothing wrong with the Englander but I do think the closer clearances and a little more convection heat would be beneficial to my situation. Also the EBT system for longer burns. Having a stove in the basement is really nice for many reasons. Helps dry it out, basement stays warm for a long time (it's well insulated). Makes the space very comfortable for working on projects or just watching football. 

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## adrpga498 (Jan 18, 2017)

1.Castine400
2.F600
sometimes size matters .


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## Squisher (Jan 18, 2017)

1. PE summit stove, and super insert. And a old Lakewood in my shop. 

2.  Pretty pleased with my setup.  if someone was going to give me a stove, I'd take a BK king and put it in the shop. 

I'd be hard pressed to change up my PE's if I was buying.


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## mminor (Jan 18, 2017)

I'm really enjoying everyone's responses - thanks a lot and please keep them coming!


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## begreen (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Pacific Energy T6 - works great in mild or cold weather burning a variety of loads
2. We've had 5 stoves in this house, 6 if you include a 5 yr run with a Quad 1200i. The T6 has the distinct advantage of being the largest stove, best heater and also, it's paid for. Not really thinking of another right now.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 18, 2017)

1) Seefire (early EPA approved non-cat freestanding woodstove about 1989 w/approx. 55-60,000 btu's)

This has been a great mid-sized  stove but the steel retainers holding the smokeshelf firebricks are sagging due to over-firing and it doesn't "throttle back" well. The install has 15 feet of vertical single-wall 6" stovepipe with a ceiling fan mounted adjacent so it's pretty good at providing a lot of heat quickly, not so good at low/slow.

It's used in a mid-sized ski cabin with the heating split 90% wood/10% elec. baseboard. The main problem is during milder weather when, after initial warm-up, I can't make it burn cool enough to maintain comfortable temps. So I let the fire burn down and resort to the electric baseboards until the cabin cools down uncomfortably and then start the process again. The stove has a very low range of adjustment (perhaps 10% if I want to burn clean/efficient). If it's unusually cold outside, I can burn continuously but then it really goes through the wood. This only happens during rare periods when an artic air mass descends and temps are around 0F-15F, about one-two weeks/year, some years not at all. Typical winter weather is a wet 38F-48F.

Sometimes, when I arrive, the inside of the cabin is colder than outside. The cabin is only heated to 40F with the baseboards when unoccupied to prevent freezing pipes and the Seefire does a good job of making the main living area comfortable for lounging within an hour after lighting the first fire (from a thoroughly cold structure). But, until the mass of the structure comes up to temperature, it will feel cold as soon as the fire starts to get low. I need to stoke it every 2-3 hours depending upon the wood density. After 1-2 days of constant (daytime) stoking the house is fully heat-soaked and I need to burn intermittently to avoid overheating.

2) Looking at a Blaze King Chinook 30

I would normally avoid a catalytic stove due to periodic maintenance and the need to babysit it until it comes up to temp (which takes just a bit longer and is more critical to perform properly when compared to a non-cat). However, I'm attracted to the much wider range of control of the heat output, much longer burn times and higher efficiencies. I'm a little concerned that it might not make the main living area feel comfortable quite as quickly as the very high level of radiant heat my well-stoked Seefire provides.

I think with the higher burn efficiency and better heat control my cabin will be over-heated less often and I'll burn about 60% less wood.


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## gregbesia (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Englander 13NCI 
2. Would love to try one of the BK inserts


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## pma1123 (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Have an Alderlea T5 since 2014, really like it, easy to run, simple construction, and most importantly its paid for.  Normal to get overnight burns; when it really gets cold I could use a touch more firepower in my situation.  Have also changed jobs which affects my schedule and occasionally has me wishing for more burntime/bigger fuel tank.  The ability to throttle that monster back when the weather is mild would be nice too.  

So there you have it, I want it all....longer burn, less heat, more heat.....I hear they make a product for this set of wants.....  

2. BK...most likely a princess due to current hearth setup/clearances.


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## trguitar (Jan 18, 2017)

1. Lopi Freedom (old stove). Threw nice heat, but would only put out for 6 hours or so when it was really cold out. Not too long for a big stove like that.

2. Progress Hybrid (new stove). Can't say enough good things about this stove. Beautiful, long burn times, sips wood (I'm using about 1/2 cord per month), heats my 2400 sf house in the 70s (far end of the house) even in the single digits outside.

Like Highbeam said, sell your old stove and get your dream stove. It's worth it! I couldn't be happier.


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## xman23 (Jan 18, 2017)

Good thread. I don't know but would like longer overnight burns, without cooking me out of the house.


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## branchburner (Jan 18, 2017)

1) Ideal Steel

2) Absolute Steel  OR Jotul Firelight Cat (new)

Would love a well-designed top-loading, big-firebox cat, but alas, that beast is extinct... not too interested in restoring or getting parts for one.
Top-loading > side-loading > front-loading (hence the preference for AS over IS).


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## DUMF (Jan 18, 2017)

branchburner said:


> 2) Absolute Steel  OR *Jotul Firelight Cat (new)*
> Would love a *well-designed top-loading, big-firebox cat,* but alas, that beast is extinct... not too interested in restoring or getting parts for one.
> Top-loading > side-loading > front-loading (hence the preference for AS over IS).



So all you engineers and stove reps---why can't you design a KISS stove that's a top loading cat ? Why ? It was done long ago, not too successfully. Explain .


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## webby3650 (Jan 18, 2017)

DUMF said:


> So all you engineers and stove reps---why can't you design a KISS stove that's a top loading cat ? Why ? It was done long ago, not too successfully. Explain .


Because when the cat is crammed into the small space in the back of the stove it's subjected to unmentionable things! There's no where else to put it with a top load, and it's abused under those conditions.


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## jatoxico (Jan 18, 2017)

The Enviro Boston was on my short list. The Jotul won for being fully flush which preserved my room layout and kept me in code hearth wise. I have to say it is a tank but over time reviews on the Jotul have been meh. It's a pure E/W loader and the burn times are nothing to get too excited about so overnight is not really an option. Fans must be on or there is little heat.

If I want stay within code I would have to add to my hearth which would change the flow and layout of the room, but having an insert that sticks out a bit and gets decent burn times would be nice.


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## bholler (Jan 18, 2017)

DUMF said:


> So all you engineers and stove reps---why can't you design a KISS stove that's a top loading cat ? Why ? It was done long ago, not too successfully. Explain .


What webby said and really you almost have to have to run it down draft like vc has because you need a direct bypass path to get a good fast start.  Basically there is no real way to keep it simple.


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## lsucet (Jan 18, 2017)

I will like one of this one just to test it and play around.


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## Jazzberry (Jan 18, 2017)

Happy with my Englander especially for the very small amount of money I have in it. I haven't seen anything that works better yet but from a lot of reading here and some more money I think maybe an Ideal Steel. Don't think I would really like cats but I haven't seen one in use yet.


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## jetsam (Jan 18, 2017)

I have a BK Princess Insert heating the whole house now.  I think if I ever remodel the living room, I will rip out everything on the wall that it's on, turn the fireplace into a stove pad, cover the drywall with kerdiboard, and thinset stones from the river over the face of that.  Then it's freestanding King time, unless someone has a better thermostatic wood stove by then. 

Mmmm, 2 day burns in shoulder season. 

(Oh, and also I have apparently omitted the part where someone convinces my wife that all of the above is a good idea... this is probably not an optional step.)


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## webby3650 (Jan 18, 2017)

DUMF said:


> So all you engineers and stove reps---why can't you design a KISS stove that's a top loading cat ? Why ? It was done long ago, not too successfully. Explain .


The Quadra-fire Isle Royale is the most useful top loader I've seen that is non-cat. Its a very simple top loading design, without all the problems associated with a traditional top loader.


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## bholler (Jan 18, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> The Quadra-fire Isle Royale is the most useful top loader I've seen that is non-cat. Its a very simple top loading design, without all the problems associated with a traditional top loader.


Yes that is probably the only top loader  I would consider installing in my house.  But honestly I dont care for top loaders I can fit allot more wood in front or side loading.


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## Tar12 (Jan 18, 2017)

I drank the BK Kool-Aid...and it didn't make me sick...lol No improvement need at this time. I was on the fence trying to decide between the King and Princess. The Princess is proving to be perfect for our moderate winters.


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## lopiliberty (Jan 18, 2017)

Current stove is a Lopi Liberty.  Its a serious heat producer and I love it but I would like to be able to get a new stove every two years or so.  I would love to try the PEs, WS, QF, Jotuls, BKs ect.  But if I had to choose just one it would be a BKK


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## webby3650 (Jan 18, 2017)

lopiliberty said:


> Current stove is a Lopi Liberty.  Its a serious heat producer and I love it but I would like to be able to get a new stove every two years or so.  I would love to try the PEs, WS, QF, Jotuls, BKs ect.  But if I had to choose just one it would be a BKK


Me too, that would be awesome!


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## lopiliberty (Jan 18, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Me too, that would be awesome!


I think you already do!  In fact you get new stoves every year.  I can't keep up with the changing inventory.  Only draw back to that would be a person might get very tired of moving 400 to 500 pound stoves every year.  Of course when one has access to the right equipment its probably not that big of deal


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## webby3650 (Jan 18, 2017)

lopiliberty said:


> I think you already do!  In fact you get new stoves every year.  I can't keep up with the changing inventory.  Only draw back to that would be a person might get very tired of moving 400 to 500 pound stoves every year.  Of course when one has access to the right equipment its probably not that big of deal


Ohh, not every year. Well maybe? My front room is built on grade, with the equipment its no big deal. I don't even need help.


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## branchburner (Jan 18, 2017)

bholler said:


> I dont care for top loaders I can fit allot more wood in front or side loading.



Not my experience with the Harman... putting splits in from the top lets you wiggle them around, and get all sorts of odd sizes and knotty pieces, right up to the top without worrying about any burn tubes... to me, seeming to max out the cubic footage a little more easily than the side and front loading.


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## bboulier (Jan 18, 2017)

1. I have a Jotul 550c fireplace insert. Very happy with it.
2. Would replace it with a Blaze King princess, but could not convince my wife of this choice.


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## webby3650 (Jan 18, 2017)

bboulier said:


> 1. I have a Jotul 550c fireplace insert. Very happy with it.
> 2. Would replace it with a Blaze King princess, but could not convince my wife of this choice.


The Ashford 25 insert should fit the bill then.


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## woodsHAM (Jan 18, 2017)

I currently have an englander nc30 which is the first epa stove ive owned. I am pleased with its efficiency over my old warm morning 701 but do miss the luxury of a nice ash pan and no fiddling with a shovel mess. In comparison to the old fisher we have at our hunting camp, i struggle when its single digits with coal buildup in the 30, just doesnt get the air the fisher or warm morning for that matter to burn the coals down. For those reasons i am turned on to the cunningham 203 amish stove , classic looking stove with a nice big ash pan. And american made !


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## bholler (Jan 18, 2017)

branchburner said:


> Not my experience with the Harman... putting splits in from the top lets you wiggle them around, and get all sorts of odd sizes and knotty pieces, right up to the top without worrying about any burn tubes... to me, seeming to max out the cubic footage a little more easily than the side and front loading.


I pack tight to the tubes no worries there  I would be way more worried about that those expensive bricks in the back of that harman than the tubes


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## Kobeman (Jan 18, 2017)

Currently Quad Isle Royale,
Would go with a BK mostly for the thermostat and they look better these days! Love the Isle , but with unregulated secondaries and a tall stack, thats just say she can be a willing pony at times!


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 18, 2017)

I can pack my VC stoves tight from the top loader. 16" long splits going E/W and shorties standing vertical on one side.


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## bholler (Jan 19, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I can pack my VC stoves tight from the top loader. 16" long splits going E/W and shorties standing vertical on one side.


I just don't thing it is easier to reach down inside a hot stove to position splits so they are all tight.  With front loading I barely reach into the stove at all.  and I get it packed really tight.  I will have to take a pic on my next reload.   I have run top loaders a couple times and did not like it.  I will admit that I can see how not having to bend down could be nice.  But honestly I have only seen one toploader that did not have pretty major trade offs in ease or use, reliability, and ease of maintenance when compared to a similar front loader.   It makes everything but loading harder.   But hey if it works for you and you are happy great I am not going to try to tell you what is best for you


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2017)

bholler said:


> I just don't thing it is easier to reach down inside a hot stove to position splits so they are all tight.  With front loading I barely reach into the stove at all.  and I get it packed really tight.  I will have to take a pic on my next reload.   I have run top loaders a couple times and did not like it.  I will admit that I can see how not having to bend down could be nice.  But honestly I have only seen one toploader that did not have pretty major trade offs in ease or use, reliability, and ease of maintenance when compared to a similar front loader.   It makes everything but loading harder.   But hey if it works for you and you are happy great I am not going to try to tell you what is best for you


Yes unfortunately VC has its drawbacks and had I been more educated before I purchased my stoves I just might be burning something else. Until I bought gloves that went all the way up to my elbows loading was a bit tricky. Let's just say short sleeves are not recommended when reaching down into a hot stove.


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## Highbeam (Jan 19, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I drank the BK Kool-Aid...and it didn't make me sick...lol No improvement need at this time. I was on the fence trying to decide between the King and Princess. The Princess is proving to be perfect for our moderate winters.



Even in Alaska, the princess outsells the king 10 to 1.


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## branchburner (Jan 19, 2017)

bholler said:


> I just don't think it is easier to reach down inside a hot stove to position splits so they are all tight.  With front loading I barely reach into the stove at all.  and I get it packed really tight.



You don't have to reach in, generally... gravity does the work, and you can always use a fireplace poker or shovel to shift the splits if needed. If you have to front-load a stove E-W (as I do, because the top of the firebox slopes backward) then to some degree you have gravity working against you, as a split placed in back may want to shift and tumble forward. I can see N-S being okay, though.

Nicest thing about top-loading, aside from loading while standing... never a speck of ash spilled when reloading! (And at least for me, less smoke spill.)

[/QUOTE] But honestly I have only seen one toploader that did not have pretty major trade offs in ease or use, reliability, and ease of maintenance when compared to a similar front loader.   It makes everything but loading harder.  [/QUOTE]

Well, that was the original point I was making... if a top-loader could be designed without those flaws, that would be my first choice. Seem like the old Jotul Firelight was as good as it got, for a cat, and Isle Royale for a non-cat.


----------



## NoobTube (Jan 19, 2017)

Currently have a new Osburn 2400 Insert. I love it. My house is roughly 2200 sqft colonial and the heat gets pushed around pretty easily.

I guess, if I had to do it all over again, but with more money although some concerns, I'd look into the BK Princess. I would prefer the longer burn times, but at the same time, I have to wonder if it would heat my house as well.


----------



## Woody Stover (Jan 19, 2017)

lopiliberty said:


> I would love to try the PEs, WS, QF, Jotuls, BKs ect





webby3650 said:


> Me too, that would be awesome!





lopiliberty said:


> you already do!


No, I think what he's saying is it would be awesome to try WS.


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## webby3650 (Jan 19, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> No, I think what he's saying is it would be awesome to try WS.


Absolutely!


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## Diabel (Jan 19, 2017)

I am using  VC Encore 2550 presently and I am happy with it. I did a complete tear down of the stove , rebuilt it and I learnt (with the help of members from this forum) how to properly operate it.

I have a feeling that a WS Keystone would make me happier though!! I love the look of that stove and I believe that it is an amazing little heater.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 19, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> Absolutely!


Yes, I think the Absolutely would be big enough for your place...


----------



## Woody Stover (Jan 19, 2017)

Diabel said:


> I am using  VC Encore 2550 presently and I am happy with it. I did a complete tear down of the stove , rebuilt it and I learnt (with the help of members from this forum) how to properly operate it.
> I have a feeling that a WS Keystone would make me happier though!! I love the look of that stove and I believe that it is an amazing little heater.


In your position, knowing your stove and having re-built it, I would no doubt keep riding it for a while.
I'm happy with the Ks; Easy to run, pretty much set-and-forget. But if it's very cold out I might open up the air a bit on the coals to hold room temp...stove will then maintain 350+. The stove keeps coals in check, since a little air is introduced into the ash pan housing. Only problem I've had was a front vertical seam leak, maybe got jarred in transit (?) but that was a pretty easy fix. Their sq. footage rating seems right...might even be a bit conservative. We have 1000 leaky sq.ft. with no wall insulation in the main room (stove room.) Most of the time, two loads a day is enough here. We hang out mostly in the stove room...that radiation can be felt almost anywhere in the room.


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## tarzan (Jan 19, 2017)

Currently running a BK Princess.

As for doing it all over again, I should have just put the money I spent on "doing it all over again" on the BK to begin with.


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## webby3650 (Jan 19, 2017)

tarzan said:


> Currently running a BK Princess.
> 
> As for doing it all over again, I should have just put the money I spent on "doing it all over again" on the BK to begin with.


Ohh if I'd only saved all my money on these other stoves and just stuck with the BK? There will always be a BK on my hearth. That's why I have 2 hearths! 1 for playing and a BK to heat the house!


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## venator260 (Jan 19, 2017)

1. 30 NC

2. I'm not sure about the model, but I would want a steel stove with an ash grate that has a more robust baffle system. 

I would want a steel stove because my stove lives in the basement. It doesn't need to look nice, and cast iron or soapstone is more expensive. 

I want an ash grate because I'm tired of sifting. I think I have decently dry wood, but even after a 12 hour burn, I will have 3-4 inches of an ash/coal mixture in the bottom of my stove. I don't like to toss the coals, so I sift out the ash. I would much rather just toss them around above a grate, and have the ash fall out of the bottom. I envision it somewhat like running a coal stove; ash out the bottom, new fuel on the top, and the fire never really dies out, and I wouldn't have to wait around as much to burn it down. Coals that aren't enmeshed in ash seem to burn hotter as well, allowing me to push the stove harder. At least I think it would. 

I want a more robust baffle because I hate making sure my baffle boards are positioned correctly. I got a hot spot on the top of my stove because I made the mistake of allowing the gap in the center of the boards instead of pushing them together. The result for me was that just about the time the stove was hot enough to lite off the secondaries, there was one little spot on the stovetop that was pushing 900 degrees. This is an issue that I think I can fix. I have a sheet of ceramic fiberboard sitting here; I'm thinking that Saturday with temps approaching 60, I'll let it burn out and make myself a tighter fitting baffle. 

I'm thinking someday that I will start to call my garage a workshop for insurance purposes, put the 30NC out there, and replace it with something that better fits my preferences. The wife and I were also looking at adding a Quadrafire 7100 ZC fireplace in the living room. I'm also thinking that would allow me to run each a bit easier, and eliminate some of my coaling issues. On all but the coldest days, one could take up the slack of the other if I needed to shut down and clean out.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 20, 2017)

venator260 said:


> 1. 30 NC
> 
> 2. I want an ash grate because I'm tired of sifting. I think I have decently dry wood, but even after a 12 hour burn, I will have 3-4 inches of an ash/coal mixture in the bottom of my stove. I don't like to toss the coals, so I sift out the ash. I would much rather just toss them around above a grate, and have the ash fall out of the bottom. I envision it somewhat like running a coal stove; ash out the bottom, new fuel on the top, and the fire never really dies out, and I wouldn't have to wait around as much to burn it down. Coals that aren't enmeshed in ash seem to burn hotter as well, allowing me to push the stove harder.


I'd say look at the Woodstock steel stoves, but  they are hybrid, not straight tube stoves. They also can rear-vent if you want...


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## tpenny67 (Jan 20, 2017)

I'm at the start of a do-over right now.  Recently bought a weekend getaway with an old, beat up Jotul 118 in it, and about to replace it with a new Quadra Fire 4300.

The Quad isn't so much my dream stove (not sure I have one), but it's clean enough to qualify for the highest rebate in the VT change out program and the hearth size requirements exactly match the dimensions of the stone pads already set into the wood flooring.  And the dealer was really pushing it 

Was also considering a new Jotul or a Lopi, but they didn't qualify for as high a rebate.  I like the north-south loading of the Quad and it looks like it should have better control of the primary air than a Lopi.  I didn't consider a catalytic stove because it will be running on high frequently to warm up the place, so I wouldn't be getting the long and low burn advantage of the catalyst, but I would have to worry about whether it would be fouled up by whatever scrap paper (or worse) I'm using to start the fire.


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## MaintenanceMan (Jan 20, 2017)

I currently have a Super 27 Heritage and wouldn't want anything else. Other than maybe going with an enamel finish or fancier trim, I wouldn't want to change a thing. I absolutely love this stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

Have you looked at the jotul f45 or f50?  These are much nicer looking north/south loaders. I didn't check clearances so I'm not sure if they will fit your hearth pad or not. If it were me I would spend some serious time finding my dream stove. Rebates are great but would you rather think "man I love this stove" every time you stare at it or "glad I got a great rebate on this stove".


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## tpenny67 (Jan 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Have you looked at the jotul f45 or f50?  These are much nicer looking north/south loaders. I didn't check clearances so I'm not sure if they will fit your hearth pad or not. If it were me I would spend some serious time finding my dream stove. Rebates are great but would you rather think "man I love this stove" every time you stare at it or "glad I got a great rebate on this stove".



Unfortunately we're working on a deadline that the insurance company gave to fix the clearance issues with the old 118.  There's other things that need doing around the house, so getting the stove off the to-do list is a priority.

I should also point out that after the rebate and a coupon from Quad, the cost is about $600 (plus installation, minor chimney repair, etc.), so if I don't it like chances are I can get most of my money back selling it used, and go buy a nicer stove when I have more time to look.

The F50 does look like a nice stove, but for what it will cost I'd want to spend time looking at other stoves too.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

tpenny67 said:


> Unfortunately we're working on a deadline that the insurance company gave to fix the clearance issues with the old 118.  There's other things that need doing around the house, so getting the stove off the to-do list is a priority.
> 
> I should also point out that after the rebate and a coupon from Quad, the cost is about $600 (plus installation, minor chimney repair, etc.), so if I don't it like chances are I can get most of my money back selling it used, and go buy a nicer stove when I have more time to look.
> 
> The F50 does look like a nice stove, but for what it will cost I'd want to spend time looking at other stoves too.


There are enough options out there to make your head spin. I tend to gravitate toward the classic cast iron stoves. That quad you are looking at would would look nice with the Queen Anne legs on it.


----------



## sportbikerider78 (Jan 20, 2017)

I have ZERO regrets for my 30NC.  

They could call me up and I'd go sell them to Miami residents.


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## venator260 (Jan 20, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> I'd say look at the Woodstock steel stoves, but  they are hybrid, not straight tube stoves. They also can rear-vent if you want...



I'm not married to the idea of a tube-only stove. As a matter of fact, I was wanting to get an Ideal Steel hybrid. My plan was to burn a mixture of wood and coal (depending on heating need) in my combo stove for another year, and then grab an Ideal Steel in the fall of 2017. However, the grates warped such that was beginning to become unusable, and it was too old to find easy replacements for. With the 30 NC at Home Depot for $700 + a $300 tax credit, I figured that was a better idea than putting money into a 35+ year old stove. I still have the old stove, and I may still fix it back up. I'm sentimental about some stuff, and that stove was initially owned by my great grandfather. My grandfather purchased it at his estate sale, and used it for the next 28 years. I checked around though, and it seems as though that would involve getting a foundry to do a one off casting for me. 

I liked the idea of a hybrid stove so that I could idle it down in the spring and fall, and crank it up in the dead of winter. Recently, I've seen pictures inside of that stove, and their ash grate system seems like something I would like using. 

I've also kicked around the idea of a hot air wood furnace to replace the 30 NC I don't have ducts, but I don't think they'd be too hard to run in my house, and it would solve my present issue of an overly cold upstairs and generally poor heat distribution.


----------



## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 20, 2017)

venator260 said:


> I'm not married to the idea of a tube-only stove. As a matter of fact, I was wanting to get an Ideal Steel hybrid. My plan was to burn a mixture of wood and coal (depending on heating need) in my combo stove for another year, and then grab an Ideal Steel in the fall of 2017. However, the grates warped such that was beginning to become unusable, and it was too old to find easy replacements for. With the 30 NC at Home Depot for $700 + a $300 tax credit, I figured that was a better idea than putting money into a 35+ year old stove. I still have the old stove, and I may still fix it back up. I'm sentimental about some stuff, and that stove was initially owned by my great grandfather. My grandfather purchased it at his estate sale, and used it for the next 28 years. I checked around though, and it seems as though that would involve getting a foundry to do a one off casting for me.
> 
> I liked the idea of a hybrid stove so that I could idle it down in the spring and fall, and crank it up in the dead of winter. Recently, I've seen pictures inside of that stove, and their ash grate system seems like something I would like using.
> 
> I've also kicked around the idea of a hot air wood furnace to replace the 30 NC I don't have ducts, but I don't think they'd be too hard to run in my house, and it would solve my present issue of an overly cold upstairs and generally poor heat distribution.


WOW, that old stove has some real family history.  If you could justify the cost of fixing it, I would sure do it.


----------



## venator260 (Jan 20, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> WOW, that old stove has some real family history.  If you could justify the cost of fixing it, I would sure do it.




Yeah. I feel the same way. I just need to check into getting a new piece of the grate made. Since I have a new stove, it's not pressing at the moment. Outside of the grate, it could use a coat of paint is about all. Burning coal, it was a serious heater.


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## SpAmSoNiTe (Jan 21, 2017)

1. Englander Nc30. Love it for the money I spent for it (729 delivered new to my door from  the Big Orange Box(home depot)). First experience with an EPA stove and it is so much better than my old Wondercoal I burned wood (and coal) in.

2. D.S. Stove Energymax 110 (http://www.messickstove.com/product...od--coal-stoves/energymax-plus-110/index.html). Not EPA certified, but they get around it because it's also an anthracite heater.. Has secondary burn tubes up top.  Now touted as mostly a furnace but many in the local Amish community use these as a woodstove. HUGE and at 680 lbs one hell a chunk of steel heating mass! Close to $2k msrp, probably coulda got a floor model for 14- 1500.

    At the time I bought my Englander I was in a crunch due to my concrete block chimney dying(broke clay thimble and block chimney in bad shape). So for like 1200 instead of 2200, I got a new stove and class a chimney that isn't my dream (maybe someday when the finances align better), but I am extremely happy with it.



Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## fibels (Jan 21, 2017)

electrathon said:


> Have a hearthstone heritage.  Pretty stove, gobbles up wood, puts out little heat, very short burn times.
> 
> Likely would replace it with a Blaze king.  Previous stove was one.  Used less wood, made way more heat, similar burn times.


  Why would the Princess have the short burn times as your Hearthstone ? You said the Princess had similar burns times as the heritage.The Blaze Kings tout long burn times.I'm confused.


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## Texas123 (Jan 21, 2017)

1/ I have an Oslo 500.
2/ I would want a Messick model 160, the bigger brother to the model 110 mentioned by SpAmSoNiTe. but, I would need to have replaced the floor joists with a poured concrete slab and I don't have the money.


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## webby3650 (Jan 21, 2017)

fibels said:


> Why would the Princess have the short burn times as your Hearthstone ? You said the Princess had similar burns times as the heritage.The Blaze Kings tout long burn times.I'm confused.


I hadn't noticed that before. You had a BK and went to a Hearthstone? Must have been a hell of a salesman!


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## begreen (Jan 21, 2017)

Or a house sale.


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## DuckDog (Jan 22, 2017)

Currently running a PE Super 27. Completely satisfied.
If I were to replace it I'd likely put in a PE Alderlea T5 simply based on style.

I'm so pleased with how my 27 has run since I installed it in 2010 that I don't think I'd even bother looking into any other manufacturer.


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## Mackj (Jan 22, 2017)

When we built our house we put in a Lennox Brentwood .   I learned a lot burning that stove, and from this forum.  One thing I learned was I wanted more stove!

     I rebuilt entire hearth area and installed the Jotul F55.  Couldn't be happier !  Great  heater, great fire view, we love it.  So far this winter burned 1% of propane Tank!  It does a fantastic job in our 1500 sq ft loft home.


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## MtnBURN (Jan 22, 2017)

We are awaiting delivery of Princess #3.....so it goes without saying which brand we believe in and have seen perform beyond our expectations. 

I love looking down at my shop...knowing the stove is jammin'/heating hard....and seeing absolutely no smoke rising from the chimney. My neighbor has an old smoke dragon and he actually had to go inside the building to view the stove after doubting me that I even had a fire going. Of course, he's 2000 ft away and there are days when I've called him to check if his house is on fire after he lights up the old Papa Bear.... ;-)

My wife is also a super happy camper. She comments frequently how much she loves the stove in the living room and thanks me for doing the research and picking out a winner. Hats off to BK. (we may need to buy stock @ this point in time)

Best of luck to all whatever stove you've chosen. Enjoy!


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## webby3650 (Jan 22, 2017)

MtnBURN said:


> We are awaiting delivery of Princess #3.....so it goes without saying which brand we believe in and have seen perform beyond our expectations.
> 
> I love looking down at my shop...knowing the stove is jammin'/heating hard....and seeing absolutely no smoke rising from the chimney. My neighbor has an old smoke dragon and he actually had to go inside the building to view the stove after doubting me that I even had a fire going. Of course, he's 2000 ft away and there are days when I've called him to check if his house is on fire after he lights up the old Papa Bear.... ;-)
> 
> ...


We always have 2 stoves. My wife has informed me that one of them will always be a Blaze King. She loves it, because she never ever has to mess with it while I'm at work.


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## MtnBURN (Jan 22, 2017)

webby3650 said:


> We always have 2 stoves. My wife has informed me that one of them will always be a Blaze King. She loves it, because she never ever has to mess with it while I'm at work.



I sure don't miss those middle-of-the-night reloads I had to do with the old Buck stove we inherited when we bought this place. That alone sold me on day one with the BK(s). My burn times are down this season because much of the cottonwood I have (that needs burned up this season) is dry like balsa wood. Sure makes for a hot fire though..LOL. (reminds me of the house-on-fire feel of the Buck)

We have no other heat here (and no monthly heating bills).....so a stove you can rely on/with long burn times is simply a must.

Had to laugh the other day. I was gonna chuck the old Buck stove when I took it out...but a neighbor down the way got wind of it and showed up with his skid steer and hauled it off....instantly slamming it into an old, brick fireplace located in the living room of his rental house. I met the renter last week and ask him how things were going. He said "OK....but I've been up most nights reloading that stove"  All I could say was "Yup.....I know all about that game" and smile as I thought of the Princess. I didn't have the heart to tell him what kinda burns we get now and that I never have to tend the fire @ night anymore..... heehee....

live and learn....


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## rijim (Jan 22, 2017)

tpenny67 said:


> I'm at the start of a do-over right now.  Recently bought a weekend getaway with an old, beat up Jotul 118 in it, and about to replace it with a new Quadra Fire 4300.
> 
> The Quad isn't so much my dream stove (not sure I have one), but it's clean enough to qualify for the highest rebate in the VT change out program and the hearth size requirements exactly match the dimensions of the stone pads already set into the wood flooring.  And the dealer was really pushing it
> 
> Was also considering a new Jotul or a Lopi, but they didn't qualify for as high a rebate.  I like the north-south loading of the Quad and it looks like it should have better control of the primary air than a Lopi.  I didn't consider a catalytic stove because it will be running on high frequently to warm up the place, so I wouldn't be getting the long and low burn advantage of the catalyst, but I would have to worry about whether it would be fouled up by whatever scrap paper (or worse) I'm using to start the fire.


Check out one of the Woodstock Hybrids.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 22, 2017)

MtnBURN said:


> Hats off to BK. (we may need to buy stock @ this point in time)



I would seriously consider buying stock in Blaze King also. But as far as I can tell, they appear to be privately held. Unless they are a subsidiary of a larger company.


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## BKVP (Jan 22, 2017)

Blaze King is owned by Decisive Dividend Corporation, a publicly traded company on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).

Symbol: DE


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 22, 2017)

BKVP said:


> Blaze King is owned by Decisive Dividend Corporation, a publicly traded company on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).
> 
> Symbol: DE



Thank-you!


----------



## Lharth (Jan 23, 2017)

1) BK Sirocco 30.1 freestanding 

2) I wouldn't change a thing. Long burn times, temp control, very low emissions, looks good and well made. I recommend this stove to anyone looking to heat a house ~2200sqft. 

The one thing I'd do different is install in the off season months when it's warm enough outside to open all the windows in your house for your your first burn. The off-gasing smell from the stove while curing the paints/solvent burning off is a terrible smell and needs plenty ventilation to rid the house of it. You'll thank me later.


----------



## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

BKVP said:


> Blaze King is owned by Decisive Dividend Corporation, a publicly traded company on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).
> 
> Symbol: DE


*:-(     * I was hoping BK was a 100% USA owned company.


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## BKVP (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> *:-(     * I was hoping BK was a 100% USA owned company.


Well I am 100% USA and I own shares as do many US residents and employees!


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

BKVP said:


> Well I am 100% USA and I own shares as do many US residents and employees!


So what's your point..........I just wish BK was a USA owned company.  So very glad to hear you have generous stock options.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 23, 2017)

BKVP said:


> Blaze King is owned by Decisive Dividend Corporation


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> *:-(     * I was hoping BK was a 100% USA owned company.



Canada, US, I've spent my entire life within a few miles of Canada, I don't see a lot of difference. I cross the border to ski some of the most beautiful mountains in the world and millions of them do the same thing down here. Canada has always been a strong ally and Canadian values are very similar to American values. We both love to burn wood and cuddle up to a warm fire on a cold night. We both like to drink cold beer, even on the coldest nights and we both love our families. What's the difference? We're all good people. I'm not so nationalistic that I care more about the people who live south of the border than those on the other side. It's just a political boundary and people are what matters. There are those who would love to divide the good people of the world and try to make it all about "us" vs. "them" but the truth is, we're all one people sharing the same planet. We're not in Middle School anymore.

The only thing  that makes Canadians a bit suspect is their inexplicable love of hockey!


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 23, 2017)

Blaze King manufactures in Walla Walla, Washington, a very cool place that I love to visit and that I would seriously consider living if it weren't for the fact that it's half days drive from the ocean. Next time I visit I'll see if I can get a quick tour of their facilities.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Canada, US, I've spent my entire life within a few miles of Canada, I don't see a lot of difference. I cross the border to ski some of the most beautiful mountains in the world and millions of them do the same thing down here. Canada has always been a strong ally and Canadian values are very similar to American values. We both love to burn wood and cuddle up to a warm fire on a cold night. We both like to drink cold beer, even on the coldest nights and we both love our families. What's the difference? We're all good people. I'm not so nationalistic that I care more about the people who live south of the border than those on the other side. It's just a political boundary and people are what matters. There are those who would love to divide the good people of the world and try to make it all about "us" vs. "them" but the truth is, we're all one people sharing the same planet. We're not in Middle School anymore.
> 
> The only thing  that makes Canadians a bit suspect is their inexplicable love of hockey!


I agree.  I feel the same way about Mexico.  Buy your stoves from Canada and your cars and A/C from Mexico.  All good people.  A good stove is a good stove.  I would just prefer the profits from my stove purchases to remain in the good old US of A.  That just happens to be a criteria for any of my future stoves.  Is there anything wrong with that?  I hope I haven't offended anyone.


----------



## NoobTube (Jan 23, 2017)

Just a curious question to you BK owners. I almost bought one when I was shopping around for a stove. How many of you Insert BK owners are living in cold climates and have houses larger than 2500 sqft? How does the Princess heat as an insert? Down the road I may sell this house and move into another around the 2500-3000 sqft size and have an opportunity to buy another all over again.


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## venator260 (Jan 23, 2017)

Lharth said:


> 1) BK Sirocco 30.1 freestanding
> 
> 2) I wouldn't change a thing. Long burn times, temp control, very low emissions, looks good and well made. I recommend this stove to anyone looking to heat a house ~2200sqft.
> 
> The one thing I'd do different is install in the off season months when it's warm enough outside to open all the windows in your house for your your first burn. The off-gasing smell from the stove while curing the paints/solvent burning off is a terrible smell and needs plenty ventilation to rid the house of it. You'll thank me later.



Yep. I opened every window in the house. It still fills the house with smoke, but I was able to vent it out pretty quickly.


----------



## BKVP (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> So what's your point..........I just wish BK was a USA owned company.  So very glad to hear you have generous stock options.



The owners of any traded company are the share holders.  If all the share holders live in the USA (which is not the case here) it would be owned by them.  There is no stock or share program for us BK employees, sadly.  We BOUGHT the stock across the counter, just the same as you can, if you so choose.


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## BKVP (Jan 23, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Canada, US, I've spent my entire life within a few miles of Canada, I don't see a lot of difference. I cross the border to ski some of the most beautiful mountains in the world and millions of them do the same thing down here. Canada has always been a strong ally and Canadian values are very similar to American values. We both love to burn wood and cuddle up to a warm fire on a cold night. We both like to drink cold beer, even on the coldest nights and we both love our families. What's the difference? We're all good people. I'm not so nationalistic that I care more about the people who live south of the border than those on the other side. It's just a political boundary and people are what matters. There are those who would love to divide the good people of the world and try to make it all about "us" vs. "them" but the truth is, we're all one people sharing the same planet. We're not in Middle School anymore.
> 
> The only thing  that makes Canadians a bit suspect is their inexplicable love of hockey!


But their beer has a higher % alcohol, they need it on the ice!


----------



## BKVP (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> I agree.  I feel the same way about Mexico.  Buy your stoves from Canada and your cars and A/C from Mexico.  All good people.  A good stove is a good stove.  I would just prefer the profits from my stove purchases to remain in the good old US of A.  That just happens to be a criteria for any of my future stoves.  Is there anything wrong with that?  I hope I haven't offended anyone.


When you purchase a BK, you are supporting USA jobs, right here in Walla Walla.  I get your point certainly, but as employees and some as stock/share holders, we are in a good place.  And yes, Walla Walla is beautiful...unless we speak of that -9F day last week


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## trevj (Jan 23, 2017)

I have a BK King.

Really not pleased with it.

Am considering dumping it at a loss, if I can find a better heat source.

I'll happily trade 30 hours off the burn time for some actual heat output when I want it. If I wanted a 40 hour burn, I can light a candle for heat.

Cheers
Trev


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

trevj said:


> I have a BK King.
> 
> Really not pleased with it.
> 
> ...


They work very well in Florida.  40 hour burns and little heat are welcome down here.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

trevj said:


> I have a BK King.
> 
> Really not pleased with it.
> 
> ...


Over the last few years I have read more then a few 'BK smoke smell problems' here.  Usually it results from not following the manufacturers installation recommendations to the letter.  Sounds like you need a stove that is more forgiving and an easier breather.  My suggestion would be a Woodstock IS.  It's not very pretty, but heats like a beast with long burn times.  Woodstock does not use a dealer network; you work directly with the manufacturer - and their customer service is second to none.  But before you dump the BK, try to work it out with the fanboys on here or BKVP.  You have a sizeable investment there and it would be a shame to take a loss.


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2017)

BKVP said:


> Blaze King is owned by Decisive Dividend Corporation, a publicly traded company on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange).
> 
> Symbol: DE


Not to be confused with Deere & Co - which is DE on the NYSE


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## venator260 (Jan 23, 2017)

venator260 said:


> I want a more robust baffle because I hate making sure my baffle boards are positioned correctly. I got a hot spot on the top of my stove because I made the mistake of allowing the gap in the center of the boards instead of pushing them together. The result for me was that just about the time the stove was hot enough to lite off the secondaries, there was one little spot on the stovetop that was pushing 900 degrees. This is an issue that I think I can fix. I have a sheet of ceramic fiberboard sitting here; I'm thinking that Saturday with temps approaching 60, I'll let it burn out and make myself a tighter fitting baffle.




Just a note here, I did this. Cut a new baffle board using the in tact older one. I cut the new one at an angle on one side such that it angles out from the original width to be about 1/2 inch wider. I put the angled part to the outside, figuring that any expansion would cause the angled cut to compress. I had to wiggle them around to get them in, and they're very snug. I also broke off the bolt that holds the tube in. A drill and a self tapping sheet metal screw fixed that.

Seems to work much better. I get more smoke spillage and the draft on a coldish startup (i.e. in the mornings) seems to take longer to become established with the same quality of wood. However, the stove top temps seem to be more controllable, the secondaries are better, I once again have no smoke from the chimney once startup is complete, and the loads overnight and through the day seem to be burning down a bit better. This is the case even if a marginal sizzling piece makes its way into the stove (bigger pieces from the shed that are split down, didn't dry out as well).


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## trevj (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> They work very well in Florida.  40 hour burns are welcome down here.



I imagine that they would be. 

It makes the news here when they get frost there, too. 

Cheers
Trev


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## trevj (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> Over the last few years I have read more then a few 'BK smoke smell problems' hear.  Usually it results from not following the manufacturers installation recommendations to the letter.  Sounds like you need a stove that is more forgiving and an easier breather.  My suggestion would be a Woodstock IS.  It's not very pretty, but heats like a beast with long burn times.  Woodstock does not use a dealer network; you work directly with the manufacturer - and their customer service is second to none.  But before you dump the BK, try to work it out with the fanboys on here or BKVP.  You have a sizeable investment there and it would be a shame to take a loss.



Yeah, sounds like.

The dealer was pretty sure this was pretty much the be-all to end-all of stoves, and that my chimney would not cause any problems.

With both my previous stoves, they would spool up like a jet engine when the door was opened or cracked open, never had any troubles with smoke in the house. With the tall stack and a heated up block body on the chimney, I would have thought I would have too much draw, as a problem, over too little.

And yeah, the only thing worse than that I spent $4K on a wood stove, is that it does not seem to work very well and I am starting to frikken hate it.

My wood is DRY! I lit the side of one of my blocks of firewood with a single, pinky finger sized split of fatwood the last time I had to do a relight. My kindling bucket runneth over!  Not using much of THAT.

Cheers
Trev


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## webby3650 (Jan 23, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> Over the last few years I have read more then a few 'BK smoke smell problems' here.  Usually it results from not following the manufacturers installation recommendations to the letter.  Sounds like you need a stove that is more forgiving and an easier breather.  My suggestion would be a Woodstock IS.  It's not very pretty, but heats like a beast with long burn times.  Woodstock does not use a dealer network; you work directly with the manufacturer - and their customer service is second to none.  But before you dump the BK, try to work it out with the fanboys on here or BKVP.  You have a sizeable investment there and it would be a shame to take a loss.


Bingo! If not installed properly, less than desirable results should be expected. Kinda like a car with flat tires, water in the gas etc... No reason to bash the stove, perhaps asking for advice first would be helpful.


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## BuckyBeaver524 (Jan 23, 2017)

trevj said:


> Yeah, sounds like.
> 
> The dealer was pretty sure this was pretty much the be-all to end-all of stoves, and that my chimney would not cause any problems.
> 
> ...


Hang in there Trev.  If you can't fix it, replace it.  No need letting this debacle ruin your life with stress.


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## Tar12 (Jan 23, 2017)

Trev... Have you talked to your dealer? My bud just finished installing his King and its a animal on a 15ft insulated flue. My Princess gets with it with a 12.5 tall insulated flue. Do not misconstrue what I am about to ask but has your chimney been checked recently? What is your chimney set up? Is it possible that the t-stat is not working properly? I ask not to insult your intelligence but to try to understand why the stove is not drawing properly.


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## Rearscreen (Jan 23, 2017)

Seems that this topic has gone off topic. But back to the original question, what stove would you choose if you could do it all over again? Well a stove isn't a candy bar in the grocery check out. It's a multi year investment. I've owned maybe a dozen. But even today with my most favorite stove ever, I'd actually have to have one in my living room to make an opinion and an answer to the question.


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## Vigil Igne (Jan 24, 2017)

1)   Quadra-Fire Explorer III Stove

2)   Quadra-Fire Explorer III Stove  (I am beyond pleased at this point. Does exactly what I need.)


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 26, 2017)

Well I did "do it over again" a few times, I've went through the old smoke dragon and wood furnace that came with the house, a hearthstone, Jotul, and now pellet stove and Woodstock. I finally found the winner with the Woodstock and wouldn't do anything different there except maybe have skipped all the in between! On the other side of the house with the pellet stove, not sure. I'm really not liking how much of a pita the pellet stove is with various problems and it's more of a pain to keep clean as well. But huge advantage in being able to run all day on high heat, which is important when you're gone for 15 or 16 hours and it's zero outside. That particular hearth *may* be able to take a BK though, but I only had a 5.5" uninsulated liner in there. I think I'll just keep things how they are. 

If I really had a do over I'd have 25+ acres of good hardwoods and a tight and well insulated home that only needed 1 stove, and it'd either be a nice enameled BK Ashford or a Woodstock PH or IS. I've already got the stove, now just need a do over on the house and land.


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2017)

venator260 said:


> I want a more robust baffle because I hate making sure my baffle boards are positioned correctly. I got a hot spot on the top of my stove because I made the mistake of allowing the gap in the center of the boards instead of pushing them together. The result for me was that just about the time the stove was hot enough to lite off the secondaries, there was one little spot on the stovetop that was pushing 900 degrees. This is an issue that I think I can fix. I have a sheet of ceramic fiberboard sitting here; I'm thinking that Saturday with temps approaching 60, I'll let it burn out and make myself a tighter fitting baffle.



I and others have solved this by laying a regular old arc welding rod on each side of the baffle. On the outside edge. This takes up the space and holds the baffle boards much closer together. The stove isn't perfectly square though so you will always be messing with them if you want it perfect. It doesn't need to be perfect.


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2017)

fibels said:


> Why would the Princess have the short burn times as your Hearthstone ? You said the Princess had similar burns times as the heritage.The Blaze Kings tout long burn times.I'm confused.



I had a heritage and switched to a modern BK princess. The BK has 3-4 times longer burn times on low and is at least 50% larger firebox. Far more effiecint too. I think we are misunderstanding Electrathon.


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## Highbeam (Jan 26, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Blaze King manufactures in Walla Walla, Washington, a very cool place that I love to visit and that I would seriously consider living if it weren't for the fact that it's half days drive from the ocean. Next time I visit I'll see if I can get a quick tour of their facilities.



My princess was made in Canada. A town with a funny name like Pendleton but not. It burns American wood and was purchased from a mom&pop dealership though.

Global economy.


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## Squisher (Jan 26, 2017)

Penticton!  You should google map it. A beautiful place.

I wonder if I could go and check out their facility there?  I used to make stoves when I was a wee lad at Northen Fireplace in Summerland. Just north of penticton. Penticton is about 1.5hrs from me.


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## OhioBurner© (Jan 26, 2017)

Canada is fine, hey we're still on the same continent. As long as they don't start importing from China!


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## fibels (Jan 26, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> I had a heritage and switched to a modern BK princess. The BK has 3-4 times longer burn times on low and is at least 50% larger firebox. Far more effiecint too. I think we are misunderstanding Electrathon.


  Ya Electrathon could clear it up if he responded.But I think your right.


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## venator260 (Jan 28, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> I and others have solved this by laying a regular old arc welding rod on each side of the baffle. On the outside edge. This takes up the space and holds the baffle boards much closer together. The stove isn't perfectly square though so you will always be messing with them if you want it perfect. It doesn't need to be perfect.




I read about that. I may have tried that if both of my originals were still in tact. I broke one of the panels attempting to take it apart to clean it. With what appears to be a warped flame impingement baffle, it didn't slide out. Note to self: drop the front burn tube to remove the baffles. 

As it is, I ordered a new sheet of ceramic fiberboard and cut the other one as large as I thought it should be to take up the space. I angled the one side, so that if it does expand, that side will crumple a bit. It's been a week, and so far, so good. The one side may have gotten smashed a bit, as they've loosened just a bit since I put them in, but they're certainly tighter than the stock boards. 

I've been achieving completely smokeless burns every day since (or at least, I can't see any). My old broken in half and pushed together board must have been leaving too much unburned smoke through, and it wasn't burning as cleanly as it could have. New board, problem solved. Seems to run a little cooler on the top of the stove as well.


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## Blazing (Jan 28, 2017)

jetsam said:


> I have a BK Princess Insert heating the whole house now.  I think if I ever remodel the living room, I will rip out everything on the wall that it's on, turn the fireplace into a stove pad, cover the drywall with kerdiboard, and thinset stones from the river over the face of that.  Then it's freestanding King time, unless someone has a better thermostatic wood stove by then.
> 
> Mmmm, 2 day burns in shoulder season.
> 
> (Oh, and also I have apparently omitted the part where someone convinces my wife that all of the above is a good idea... this is probably not an optional step.)



Same here every last word.


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## georgepds (Jan 28, 2017)

Current: progress hybrid
Future: progress hybrid

Best money I've ever spent. I'm warm all winter,I haul less wood, and it is a dream to look at.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 28, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/193/193492-7a4c1d6acaac96ab5fc54bd6a0db54f0.jpg


If you get a King, you can change your name to Leroy!


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## jetsam (Jan 29, 2017)

Blazing said:


> Same here every last word.



You also copied my pointy dog!


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## Xtrl9 (Jan 29, 2017)

1. Hearthstone Clydesdale

2. A wood/electric furnace probably. My hvac system needs more ductwork and the money i sank into getting my insert in and chimney leakage fixed up i could have put into this project. Then again maybe a few grand isnt going to go as far as i hope on this project.  

If i was going strictly wood burning i would go with a bk. I don't care if a product is made in outer space if it does what it says it will and i can get support when it doesn't then I'll buy it.  I also passed my reading comprehension tests in school so it would be installed per manufacturer's instruction and to code. Well I should be honest it would meet or exceed them.


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## TonyC1 (Feb 26, 2017)

I have a Jotul 550C..beautiful arched windows..brown ceramic finish.

I pack it full of large square pieces at about 10-11 pm..wake up at 6 am..scoop out a bucket of ash and there are plenty of coals to quickly get back up to temp by the time I finish breakfast.  This mild winter heating the house easily. This is the fourth winter..fans are starting to act up but they run 24/7 all winter long. I love that it can take a 24 inch log ..definitely saves on loading.  Just bought a fan kit with 2 - 75cfm fans plus new speed control and temp sensor for $150.  No change for me.


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## HisTreeNut (Mar 2, 2017)

I have a Buck 94NC and I am most pleased with it.  Supporting local businesses is important to.my wife and I and they are local...28 minutes away.  If I could do it all over again, I would:
1) Get the Buck 91.  The 94 cooks us out and a full load goes about 5-7 hours before a reload depending on the mix.  I would imagine the 91 would do the same but for a lot longer.
2) I would get a BK Princess based on the reviews here and that @BKVP is a pretty cool guy in how he helps folks out here on the Hearth.  Speaks well to his character and to the company imho.


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## nellraq (Mar 2, 2017)

BuckyBeaver524 said:


> I agree.  I feel the same way about Mexico.  Buy your stoves from Canada and your cars and A/C from Mexico.  All good people.  A good stove is a good stove.  I would just prefer the profits from my stove purchases to remain in the good old US of A.  That just happens to be a criteria for any of my future stoves.  Is there anything wrong with that?  I hope I haven't offended anyone.





BuckyBeaver524 said:


> I agree.  I feel the same way about Mexico.  Buy your stoves from Canada and your cars and A/C from Mexico.  All good people.  A good stove is a good stove.  I would just prefer the profits from my stove purchases to remain in the good old US of A.  That just happens to be a criteria for any of my future stoves.  Is there anything wrong with that?  I hope I haven't offended anyone.



BLaze King stoves are made in Walla Walla WA and in Penticton, BC, Canada.


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## electrathon (Mar 2, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> I had a heritage and switched to a modern BK princess. The BK has 3-4 times longer burn times on low and is at least 50% larger firebox. Far more effiecint too. I think we are misunderstanding Electrathon.


I read through and can't see what the specific question is for me.  I bought the Hearthstone stove thinking it would be the last stove I would ever buy.  My last stove was a Blaze King Princess slammer and I replaced it thinking I would get better heat output.  My like of the hearthstone is that it is awesome pretty.  I get positive comments about it when people walk into my living room.  The draft is not that hard to start (not as easy as the princess insert slammer though).  If you load through the side door it doesn't let out too much smoke and ash into the room.  I really like that there is very little visible chimney smoke.

As to dislikes, the list is long.  It gobbles up wood, way more than the princess.  It produces less heat, a lot less than the princess.  It takes forever to get the stove cranking out heat.  I would estimate that more heat exits the stove through the glass front than the rest of the stove.  I burn mainly semisoft wood, like fir.  I burn what I can get.  If I loaded up the princess I used to have a few coals left after about 6 or 7 hours to restart the fire.  With the Hearthstone there are usually not much left for coals after 4 or 5 hours.  I have tried loading the stove full like many here talk about, that doubles wood consumption with only slight increases in room heat.  If you load through the front ashes always fall out (onto the convenient shelf) and smoke flows into the house. 

I have a un-insulated liner (that is what the shop told me to install) that uses the rear connection point on the stove.  No flex pipe, about 23' of pipe through the brick chimney.  Block off plate on the bottom.  I am about to the point of buying a new stove, 5 cords already this year and the house could not reach 60 degrees when it was 20 outside.  It is now 35 to 50 outside and I can now get the living room to 70.  I see the advertised burn times on the new blaze king stoves and personally would be giddy if I had coals left at 12 hours instead of 4.

I have used a lot of stoves over the years but the only other one I had in a house I lived in was a barrel stove that was in two different houses we lived in up in Alaska.  It put out lots of heat, awesome lots of heat.


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## fibels (Mar 2, 2017)

electrathon said:


> I read through and can't see what the specific question is for me.  I bought the Hearthstone stove thinking it would be the last stove I would ever buy.  My last stove was a Blaze King Princess slammer and I replaced it thinking I would get better heat output.  My like of the hearthstone is that it is awesome pretty.  I get positive comments about it when people walk into my living room.  The draft is not that hard to start (not as easy as the princess insert slammer though).  If you load through the side door it doesn't let out too much smoke and ash into the room.  I really like that there is very little visible chimney smoke.
> 
> As to dislikes, the list is long.  It gobbles up wood, way more than the princess.  It produces less heat, a lot less than the princess.  It takes forever to get the stove cranking out heat.  I would estimate that more heat exits the stove through the glass front than the rest of the stove.  I burn mainly semisoft wood, like fir.  I burn what I can get.  If I loaded up the princess I used to have a few coals left after about 6 or 7 hours to restart the fire.  With the Hearthstone there are usually not much left for coals after 4 or 5 hours.  I have tried loading the stove full like many here talk about, that doubles wood consumption with only slight increases in room heat.  If you load through the front ashes always fall out (onto the convenient shelf) and smoke flows into the house.
> 
> ...


 I put in a pipe damper in my Mansfield which extended the burn and heat times.Have you tried one ?


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## electrathon (Mar 3, 2017)

fibels said:


> I put in a pipe damper in my Mansfield which extended the burn and heat times.Have you tried one ?


I have not tried a damper.  I have contemplated one but a while back someone posted on here that they had one and the stove back puffed and the blast messed up the stove.  I do not remember the specifics but it really made me leery.


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## Dakotas Dad (Mar 3, 2017)

Hearthstone Mansfield.

Maybe I would change the color from the red enamel to just a plain old flat black.


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## fibels (Mar 3, 2017)

electrathon said:


> I have not tried a damper.  I have contemplated one but a while back someone posted on here that they had one and the stove back puffed and the blast messed up the stove.  I do not remember the specifics but it really made me leery.


If that happened they had the damper closed too much and a back puff won't mess up any stove I know of.


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## fibels (Mar 3, 2017)

Dakotas Dad said:


> Hearthstone Mansfield.
> 
> Maybe I would change the color from the red enamel to just a plain old flat black.


  Man your install pictures were beautiful.Thanks for sharing.I enjoyed the journey.I didn't know it got cold enough in Kentucky to need a woodstove let alone a Mansfield.It's in the high teens here and my Mansfield has us toasty.


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## electrathon (Mar 3, 2017)

fibels said:


> If that happened they had the damper closed too much and a back puff won't mess up any stove I know of.



begreen said: ↑
webby, did you ever try one with a butterfly damper in the stove pipe to reduce heat loss up the flue?
Click to expand...
They don't recommend it, my flue was only 13' tall anyway.

I have seen a Hearthstone that was using a pipe damper, they shut everything down abruptly and the ensuing back puff blew the stones off the top of the stove.

Thread here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-hearthstone-heritage-burns-way-too-fast.159331/


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## pdf27 (Mar 3, 2017)

Had a Charnwood C-four in our last house - pretty good and having one air control to do everything was nice in theory but balancing it was a pain and my wife wouldn't dream of putting more wood on it. We stopped using it after our daughter was born and started trying to hug it whenever it was lit, then moved out last year.



Would like to fit one again in the new house in a few years when the kids are old enough to know not to hug it - quite fancy the Hwam ones with automated air controls linked to flue temperature, oxygen and room temperature sensors: that's partly the engineer in me talking but also the fact that they've got WiFi and you can set up an app on your phone to tell you when to refuel. My wife might actually respond to that


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## electrathon (Mar 3, 2017)

pdf27 said:


> We stopped using it after our daughter was born and started trying to hug it whenever it was lit, then moved out last year.


I raised kids in a wood stove heated house, I grew up in a woodstove heated house.  It isn't a problem.  Kids learn the meaning of hot very fast.  You just build the first fires small and let the kids learn.  They will always stay back.


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## fibels (Mar 3, 2017)

electrathon said:


> begreen said: ↑
> webby, did you ever try one with a butterfly damper in the stove pipe to reduce heat loss up the flue?
> Click to expand...
> They don't recommend it, my flue was only 13' tall anyway.
> ...


  What webby said is funny.It sounded like a Jimmy Fallon joke.I have two soapstone stoves and have never had that happen.Not even close.


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## Smoked (Mar 3, 2017)

Per the post, have 2 Heritages.  Would have loved to try out a Progress Hybrid but did not think I could make it work.

On the damper conversations, have been using dampers for 2 seasons and really like the added control.  I did have one pack puff that got my attention.  cant remember if it was dampered down or not but I definitely shut a large load down to quickly and lost the secondaries.  Then when it lit back up it made a little racket.  No biggie though.

Dampers are extending my burn and or at the very least keeping more coals for relights.  I really don't load them to the gills but I know I could get more heat if I did.  With 2, I don't need to push it and like that.  This year has been nuts warm so I have only run the basement install a few times anyway.  I have no doubt I would struggle more with softwoods but with hardwoods, these stoves do a good job of heating my home.  Primary stove is heating 2700 feet and burn the second one if below freezing and that adds 1200 feet.

If you can get the colorful burn of a tube stove and some of the extended burns of a cat stove with a hybrid, I wold love to try one some time.


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## begreen (Mar 3, 2017)

No change here


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