# The power of water



## snowfreak (May 17, 2006)

I was literally amazed watching this video.  4oz of water for a 100 mile trek not too bad.  The video is clean but the web site hosting it is risque (nude females) if someone has the same video with a different link let me know.  If its too much let me know and I'll remove it all together.

(Edit: Link altered by Mo. Click this link, then click the 'Water Fuel - HHO Gas' link that appears, for the movie.)

http://digg.com/technology/Water_Fuel_-_HHO_Gas


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## Shane (May 17, 2006)

That is awesome.  How energy efficient is it?


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## begreen (May 17, 2006)

Sorry to be skeptical, but this seems a little silly. If the vehicle got an estimated 3200 mpg of water, why also have it run on gas? The answer is because it needs a whopping generator to do the electrolysis on  the water. The generator's consumption does not seem to be mentioned, but that would have to be figured in to determine the efficiency.


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## Shane (May 17, 2006)

That's what I was asking.  How much energy does it take to produce the hydrogen compared to energy produced.  Another question once the first tank or whatever of hydrogen is produced can it be self sustaining.  Meaning is there enough energy in the hydrogen to run the car and power the generator for electrolysis?  At 3200mpg this could be feasible right?  Unless it's all a bunch of bs.


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## Mo Heat (May 18, 2006)

This is not BS. Klein is just another late-to-the-party guy using variations of gases like AquaFuel, Magnegas, MagneHydrogen, HH0, what have you gas produced from a plasma arc in the presence of different carbon and water solutions, including oil, coal, bio-waste, sewage, recycle tires, and what-have-you.

The chemistry is dubbed Hadronics (by Rugero Santilli, PhD) and it is still being formulated and investigated. In theory, a magnetic chemical bond is responsible for combining H and O and/or C etc. into a stable molecule that has some cool (neat) properties. I hope to hear more about this stuff in the coming years. It still seems like snake oil, but I've done a lot of reading and it seems legit. At least the legit things I've read. I'm not saying Danny Klein is legit, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was. He is following Santini, who followed Bill Richardson, who sort of rediscovered an circa 1860 patent regarding gas production in water in the presence of carbon using a high voltage arc (plasma arc). Here are some (not so hot  links as the original super hot video link...

http://digg.com/technology/Water_Fuel_-_HHO_Gas (click on the link inside this link, to see the video...)

http://hytechapps.com/applications/HHOS.htm

http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2004/08/brownkleinhho.html (excerpt from this one below...)

_... we here submit the working hypothesis for further future studies according to which the chemical composition of the HHO gas is a novel realization of the new species of Santilli magnecules[3]._

http://www.atsnn.com/article/158213

(see also: my post in the ashcan called: Is Aquafuel the perfect fuel (or something like that). Maybe I should move it over here along with some other worthy Green Energy posts???


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## berlin (May 18, 2006)

It's such a crock, if ya'll believe that will be anything other than an inefficient novelty, i've got some beach front property for sale cheap, on the sun. The only way hydrogen powered vehicles will be a reality, is if we master nuclear fusion, so we can make cheap hydrogen.



> "How much energy does it take to produce the hydrogen compared to energy produced.  Another question once the first tank or whatever of hydrogen is produced can it be self sustaining."



"self sustaining"... sure, just like all the other perpetual motion machines we have running around....oh... wait....


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## Mo Heat (May 18, 2006)

berlin said:
			
		

> It's such a crock, if ya'll believe that will be anything other than an inefficient novelty, i've got some beach front property for sale cheap, on the sun. The only way hydrogen powered vehicles will be a reality, is if we master nuclear fusion, so we can make cheap hydrogen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You may well be correct, but he who shouts the loudest, or is the most negative, isn't always right.

Here are several companies that are using similar methods in what appear to be greater than novelty applications:

http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/attachments/59050.htm?CFID=649810&CFTOKEN=36977268

Startech Environmental Group just broke ground on a tire recycling facility in New Jersey. According to a company news release, they are receiving some pretty hefty government and private financing to help them. Now... maybe they are just fleecing our tax dollars and bilking investors, and that is certainly a possibility, but we should know soon enough if that plant actually does what it claims. Here's a link to the news release: http://tinyurl.com/s6ygj

There is also a plant in Carthage, Missouri that is recycling Turkey offal (guts) into syngas and other fuel products. I don't know if it is legit, either, but the Governor had to shut them down due to the stink complaints according to a Kansas City Star newspaper article. This describes the process: http://tinyurl.com/j8z4l

I did find one nay sayer, so I guess it's only fair to post that as well:

http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2005/Changing-World-Technologies-Palmer9apr05.htm

I'll admit there is not a lot of concrete, first or second hand documentation about these plants, and the whole field is still pretty new and unproven, but it seems unfair to dismiss it so casually. I know, I know, physics, chemistry, blah, blah, but there was a time when people were burned at the stake for daring to think the world was not flat or that the sun didn't move around the earth. Science takes the approach that things must be proven to be true. But it doesn't say that anything not proven is untrue.

I believe you said you have a chemistry background. Have you read any of the Ruggero Santilli papers regarding Hadronic Chemistry? If so, what did you think of them? If not, here are some links: http://www.magnegas.com/technology/part5.htm

BTW: call me cynical, but I don't believe you actually own property on the Sun.


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## Mo Heat (May 18, 2006)

Here's a link to my original AquaFuel thread. The later posts in that thread have better links discovered after doing some reading on Santilli's web sites.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1654/


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## Mo Heat (May 19, 2006)

Poking around in the web site for the company that makes the new welding gas (HHO) and potential vehicle fuel, I discovered that the nature of this gas is indeed within the scope of the Santilli scientific papers. He calls HHO a Magnecule due to its non-valent, and/or double valent bonding (heck, I don't understand all this stuff . Some sort of magnetic bonding of a novel type is theorized by Santilli.

Here is a link to that paper that describes in detail the novel chemical nature of HHO gas. To download the paper, first go to this link, and then click on _Download this paper as a Word Document_. Here's the link from the welding gas company's web site:

http://hytechapps.com/science/Santilli.htm


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## Mo Heat (May 19, 2006)

No offense to anyone, but I may do a bit more _cleaning up_ in the Green Room. Quips, flame baiting, nonsense, nonsequiturs, etc. add little to The Green Room as a Green energy resource, so I'd prefer to try and limit those to the Ash Can area in order to help make The Green Room enough of a success to convince the webmaster to keep it around.

I know it can be difficult to sustain discussions on-topic, or through substantive, and more acceptable, thread hijacking, which will always occur, especially from the usual suspects, but your effort will be appreciated and hopefully rewarded with a nicer Green resource.

Perhaps we could all pretend we are in an electronic classroom, abiding by the customary social contraints of that type arena that are so often lacking in Internet forums.


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