# Fruit Scratter



## BucksCoBernie (Sep 2, 2010)

Im making cider soon and just found a supply of free apples. I need to build a scratter to make pulp before i can press the juices. I know oak is the preferred wood for anything that touches the apple/juice. With that being said I do have an 8" diameter red oak branch in the wood pile that I could use to make a cylinder...my question is would anyone who's made cider/wine before use a piece of oak from their wood pile and how do i make sure it doesnt absorb juice and possibly contaminate my finished product?

My idea is to cut the 8" diameter branch to an 8" length and use a lathe to skim off about 1-2 inches off the branch to get down to about a 6"Dx8"L cylinder then put some stainless steel screws into it.

Do you think this would work?


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 2, 2010)

I don't have any experience but this is the contraption I'm experimenting with if it gives you any ideas.


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## BucksCoBernie (Sep 2, 2010)

thats pretty much what im looking to build....with the drill set up and all haha.

http://www.the-gift-of-wine.com/scratter.html

Where did you pick up your press?


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 3, 2010)

I didn't buy it but I think it is the Homesteader.  Not sure how well it works but it has been in the family for a couple decades.

https://www.happyvalleyranch.com/?gclid=CL_EgoKD6qMCFeQD5Qodm16i0w

It has a big cast flywheel type weight hand crank.  But, this is tedious for a one-man operation.  I am getting the parts together to power it with an electric motor as I damn near burned out that cheap drill in my experiment and it stopped on every apple.  When it did work, it sent 4' of spray out.  The basic design seems to make sense just need to fine tune the powering of the masher.


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## backpack09 (Sep 3, 2010)

This looks fairly easy to build... http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/press/making_cider.html


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## pybyr (Sep 3, 2010)

A garbage disposal (the type that goes in the sink drain) with stainless innards (and of course not having been previously used for its original purpose) makes a remarkably effective fruit schredder.  

I ran across the idea on the www a few years ago and put one together for use with my friends' apple cider press (which had an old and worn hand crank grinder).  

You get a finer pulp, and as a result, higher net juice yield.  

I can give more details later if the concept is of interest (and you can Google the topic, too).


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 13, 2010)

Replaced the drill nonsense with the original flywheel hand crank while it was raining today.  Made cider with some of the neighbors apples that would otherwise go on our compost pile...good stuff.


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## benjamin (Sep 13, 2010)

If you could find a split that was big enough, it would be far less likely to crack open when it dries.  You want to avoid "boxed heart" if you can avoid it.  Also, maple would be my first choice, maybe even box elder as long as it was clean and not smelly.


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## SE Iowa (Sep 13, 2010)

Can I ask a stupid question?  What is the difference b/w apple cider and apple juice?  Is Juice filtered more?  I don't remember my parents adding any spices to the apple "juice" when we made it as a kid.  What gives?


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## firefighterjake (Sep 13, 2010)

SE Iowa said:
			
		

> Can I ask a stupid question?  What is the difference b/w apple cider and apple juice?  Is Juice filtered more?  I don't remember my parents adding any spices to the apple "juice" when we made it as a kid.  What gives?



I can't give you a definitive answer as to the differences . . . all I can say is that I dislike apple juice, but love drinking good cider. Juice to me seems more filtered . . . of course I also refuse to buy pasteurized apple cider . . . folks say there isn't a difference, but I know I can taste the difference -- to me pasteurized cider tastes just like apple juice . . . somehow it loses some of its flavor when it is pasteurized.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 13, 2010)

There is plenty of flavor when you take the fruit off the tree, run it through the press and pour it in a glass    That is the first time I have had it that fresh and it is pretty agreeable.


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## timfromohio (Sep 13, 2010)

Last year I purchased plans to make the "Whizbang Cider Press" from Herrick Kimball:

http://www.whizbangcider.com/

While I've not had a chance to build it yet, the plans are detailed and very comprehensive.  I'd recommend you guys take a look.


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## dougstove (Sep 13, 2010)

I have one of the rectangular frame presses with a hydraulic jack, similar to the picture from BackPack09.
My father built mine years ago.  You set up the apple pulp in cloth bags, topped with a birch slat rack covered in paraffin wax.  You a make a stack of about 4 bags+slats, then a solid cover piece, then the jack.

It is slow and frustrating because the travel on the jack is not enough for a round of pressing.
So I have to jack, release, shim, rejack etc.
It all works, but I would prefer a better system.
What I really need is a better grinder;  the garburator idea is good.  I have also seen the wooden drum with stainless steel screw shredders (scratter?).


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## timfromohio (Sep 13, 2010)

The link I posted has plans that details the use of a garbage disposal to make mash for pressing.  The guy who sells the plans seems to have experimented quite a bit before settling on the garbage disposal method.  

Fresh cider is exceptional.  The only apple-derived beverage I've had that might be better is hard cider fermented with a generous helping of locally produced honey (so much that the beverage was technically a mead).  That stuff was so tasty ....


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## dougstove (Sep 13, 2010)

I like the look of the Whizbang guy's grinder, but his presser relies upon a short-travel jack just like mine.
But, with a better grinder, the pressing might be alot easier.


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## timfromohio (Sep 13, 2010)

Doug - in the plans, he makes use of both a bottle jack and a screw-type jack.  I do remember that he did use shims when pressing.  

According to the plans, using the garbage disposal to make mash really increased the volume of juice he got per pressing.  

I hope that this thread is updated once people start pressing and processing.  Apple cider is one of the great joys of Fall!


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## Cutter (Sep 14, 2010)

A couple of thoughts here. I was discussing the garbage disposal idea on a wine forum and was warned about not wanting to grind up apple seeds as they contain traces of cyanide. I also have used presses with bottle jacks. And as mentioned above having to keep putting more and more blocks turned me off. Acme thread is the answer I truly believe. I picked up a nice clean little used adjustable scaffold foot/leg. I have attached a 1 1/2" white oak plug on the bottom of the foot plate. I am fitting the adjusting wings between two heavy pieces of oak to make the cross beam and am in search of a heavy steel wheel of some sorts to weld to the top of the shaft for the turning wheel. When all is said and done I will have about 16" of travel with my press. I won't have it done before the apples are ready so I will have to go use the neighbors 1859 grinder and press. I wished it were mine. 
A glass of Mulled apple wine in front of the fireplace on a cold winters night. Oh yea.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 14, 2010)

timfromohio said:
			
		

> The link I posted has plans that details the use of a garbage disposal to make mash for pressing.  The guy who sells the plans seems to have experimented quite a bit before settling on the garbage disposal method.
> 
> Fresh cider is exceptional.  The only apple-derived beverage I've had that might be better is hard cider fermented with a generous helping of locally produced honey (so much that the beverage was technically a mead).  That stuff was so tasty ....



Only alcohol I drink is hard cider . . . love Woodchuck Cider . . . made in Vermont . . . very good stuff. Didn't like my brother's attempt to make hard cider though -- tasted like fermented paint thinner.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 14, 2010)

I can see this orchard across the valley while I am splitting firewood.  I need to go over and try their finer product.

http://pro.spidergraphics.com/bea2/bea2_vodka.html


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

FFJ - I like Woodchuck as well.  Hornsby's dark is also good.  However, the best I've had was some stuff made by a guy I work with - he made four batches:  2 that had honey added (one with spice, one without) and 2 without extra sugar, so lower alcohol content (one with spice, one without).  The batches with the honey added were exceptional.  I'm going to try making a batch myself this year.  

SolarandWood - that places looks great.  You could pick some apples and then enjoy a post-picking apertif.


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## Cowboy Billy (Sep 14, 2010)

My friends son gave me a few sips of hard cider one of the people he used to work for made. That was great stuff Anyone got or can tell me where to get a directions on how to make it?

Billy


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

I'll ask the guy here at work - I need the recipe anyway.


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

I don't have the cider directions yet but found mead instructions and figured I'd post them anyway:

In answer to your question, I believe in Keeping it Simple.  Boil the water (with part of a Camden tablet), add honey to 17.5% P.A., partially cool, pitch WL720 yeast, and wait.

Boil the Water
I boil the water with about 1/4 to 1/2 potassium metabisulfite (Camden) tablet per 5 gallons of water.  This gets rid of chlorine and any chloramines. (In some systems, chloramine is added instead of chlorine, but even is chlorine systems, the chlorine can react with any protein (poly amino acids) and form some chloramines.)

Add Honey to 17.5% Potential Alcohol
Off the stove, I then pour the honey into the hot water or the hot water into the honey.  In ALL of the mead I have ever made in the past 11 years, I have used/reused from a batch of White Labs WL720 - a sweet mead yeast that gives citrus tones during the fermentation.  Some year I will try some other yeasts (as my son in Australia keeps proposing that I do), but I haven't found a listed flavor profile that is better than this yeast.  I will provide a starter for anyone that wants what might now be a different yeast than I started with.  Anyway, I know that the alcohol tolerance for this yeast is about 12% to 14% and I like my final mead to have residual sweetness of 3 1/2 to 5 1/2% potential alcohol (one of the three scales on almost all hydrometers).  So, the last 300 to 400 pounds of honey I have made into honey water with potential alcohol of 17 1/2% at 68F (my basement temperature).  {Note Well - MAKE SURE your final measurements are taken at 68 to 70F, because temperature has a DRAMATIC impact on the hydrometer readings.  This should take about 3 pounds of honey per gallon, (Probably per gallon of honey water instead of per gallon of starting water - but I never weigh the honey - I just measure it with a hydrometer.)

Cool to at least 80F, Pitch, and then Wait
Need to cool a) so it doesn't break glass carboys and b) so it doesn't kill the yeast.  I found it starts faster if the honey water is still warm.  I siphon the honey water into the carboy because this tends to leave pollen, dirt, bee wings, etc. on the sides of the mixing container.

Options
If you want the fermentation to go faster, you can add yeast energizer and yeast nutrient either to the hot water or to the honey water at any time.  Also an option is a drop of olive oil - which is said to provide starting material for the yeast walls.  Literature claims 1 drop per 20 gallons, but I am sure a drop per carboy is fine.  If you want you can stir, shake, or otherwise oxygenate the honey water.  I started out using yeast energizer, yeast nutrient, magnesium sulfate (Epson salts), vitamin B, ascorbic acid, shaking to oxygenate, and so forth - but have lately (as least started out) making mead that could be entered as a "SHOW MEAD" - which is a mead made without any additional chemicals.  I think the results may vary depending on the type of honey.  Clover may require more chemicals - but they can be added if the fermentation sticks (in spite of what some people say).  For a stuck fermentation, I will add some of the nutrient and/or other chemicals and stir to oxygenate (and bring to a slightly warmer location than my basement - or otherwise provide some extra heat).  I figure if you can keep a half full bottle of finished mead in the fridge for 6 months, I really don't need to worry about a little oxygenation part way through the fermentation - which should still ferment out any bad products.  My fermentations are slow and so is the clarification - but the results are good.  

Consider some other types of honey.  There is considerable difference in the final taste depending on the honey type.  In addition to the 120 pounds of clover honey I bought on the SAAZ buy (all fermenting), I also have recently purchased 150 pounds of Tupelo (started another 10 gallons today) to go with my 3 or 4 pails of Orange Blossom honey and a couple of pails of Buckwheat honey.  I do not recommend Golden Rod honey (I made the resulting mead into strawberry/cinnamon mead for a wedding).  I bought the Clover honey primarily for base meads for my melomels and metheglins, but it can also be OK (but probably not extraordinary) for traditional meads 

I almost always do all of my additions after the honey water has turned into mead.  I know that I like the tart cherry flavor of cherries and not the fermented cherry flavor I would get if I added the cherries at the beginning.  Unless you WANT the fermented flavor of additions (e.g. wine instead of grape), wait till you have mead.  I have yet to hear if there is any change in the fermented vs. non-fermented flavor of spices, but why take a chance.  I know most fruit flavors change dramatically. Also, with 12% alcohol, you don't need to worry much about contamination/cleaning/sterilization of fruit/teas/spices.


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## Cowboy Billy (Sep 14, 2010)

Cool! I'll have to get started on my orchard now. My uncles have been trying to get apple trees to grow up there for 40 years and have never had one live more than there years even though there are a few growing alongside the road. I love it when they tell me I can't do something and I just go ahead and get it done!

Billy


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

I received the cider recipe in Excel format, so here it is as a jpg:


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

page 2:


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## Cowboy Billy (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks Tim

Billy


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## timfromohio (Sep 14, 2010)

No problem - I sampled a bottle of each variety and #3 (the one fortified with honey but without extra spices) was my favorite.  Be warned though, it was 16%!  If you're used to beer or commercial hard cider (like Woodchuck) it will be quite a surprise, especially if you're a cheap date like me.  It was really tasty though.


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## Cutter (Sep 15, 2010)

I belong to a great wine and beer makers forum that can give you answers to most any brewing and vintners questions. Come on over. It has great people and is very active. Just like being here.


http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/

Brad.


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## btuser (Sep 15, 2010)

SE Iowa said:
			
		

> Can I ask a stupid question?  What is the difference b/w apple cider and apple juice?  Is Juice filtered more?  I don't remember my parents adding any spices to the apple "juice" when we made it as a kid.  What gives?



Real, true cider is fermented and has alcohol.  The distinction came about during prohibition.  I've also heard that juice refers to pasturized stuff.


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## peakbagger (Sep 15, 2010)

I think the cider definition varies. Cider is traditionally what comes off the press and contains natural yeasts floating around in the air and on the apple. Once its pasteurized its apple juice. There are all sorts of rules in most states which limit the sale of real unpasteurized cider to direct sales at the farms as some folks with compromised immune systems can get sick from the natural bacteria in it. 

Its hard to beat the cider that comes off the press. When its first pressed, the cider has a very pink color and the air is full of aromatics from the grinder. Within seconds it turns brown and I swear it tastes different. My friend has a press and when the jucie has been squeezed out of the apple pulp, the remaining pulp forms a dense square. I refer to them as "sheep cookies" as he has sheep and they love eating them. I think they love eating them even more after they have sat for a couple of warm days and have slightly fermented. 

Unfortunately my friend now only make cider to give away due to the potential for laibility in selling it and this year a late frost bascally wiped out his apple crop.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 16, 2010)

Had our first taste of production tonight.  2 hours for 7 gallons from gathering the apples to hosing everything down.  Kinda regret all the apples I tilled under in the garden the past few years.


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## BucksCoBernie (Sep 16, 2010)

2 hrs for 7 gallons isnt bad at all. I cheated today and bought 6 gallons of unpasteurized cider from a local farm. pitching the yeast tomorrow morning before i head into work. 

Do you add any spices or sugar? Im going all natural, just straight cider and champagne yeast. I'll probably put about a tsp of sugar at bottling for the fizz. I plan on starting a 2nd batch in about 2 weeks and I might add some cinnamon and clove to it.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 16, 2010)

The carboy is going to be sparkling wine.  Campden tabs, pectin enzyme, yeast energizer, grape tannin, acid blend and sugar went in it tonight.  Yeast tomorrow.  The growlers will get consumed as is in the near future.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 16, 2010)

peakbagger said:
			
		

> I think the cider definition varies. Cider is traditionally what comes off the press and contains natural yeasts floating around in the air and on the apple. Once its pasteurized its apple juice. There are all sorts of rules in most states which limit the sale of real unpasteurized cider to direct sales at the farms as some folks with compromised immune systems can get sick from the natural bacteria in it.
> 
> Its hard to beat the cider that comes off the press. When its first pressed, the cider has a very pink color and the air is full of aromatics from the grinder. Within seconds it turns brown and I swear it tastes different. My friend has a press and when the jucie has been squeezed out of the apple pulp, the remaining pulp forms a dense square. I refer to them as "sheep cookies" as he has sheep and they love eating them. I think they love eating them even more after they have sat for a couple of warm days and have slightly fermented.
> 
> Unfortunately my friend now only make cider to give away due to the potential for laibility in selling it and this year a late frost bascally wiped out his apple crop.



Here in Maine a few years back they tried to make it so that everyone had to pasteurize the cider . . . fortunately there are some exemptions . . . although many places -- including orchards -- now pasteurize out of fear of a lawsuit . . . happily the local orchard does not . . . it's the only cider I buy . . . pasterurizing really does change the taste and in my mind it may look like cider, but it tastes more like juice.


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## timfromohio (Sep 16, 2010)

BucksCoBernie - go back to page two and check out the recipes I posted.  Personally, I prefer no spice, but the addition of honey was excellent.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 16, 2010)

BucksCoBernie said:
			
		

> Im going all natural, just straight cider and champagne yeast.



My wife highly recommends the compden tabs to kill off all the natural yeast or you will likely have a mess on your hands.


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## timfromohio (Sep 16, 2010)

Guy here who makes cider says the same thing.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 17, 2010)

Here is the yeast doing its thing


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 26, 2010)

Another six and a half gallons off the production line this morning.  Its kind of cool how different it looks after 12 days of the yeast working on it.


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## BucksCoBernie (Oct 2, 2010)

Here's my 6 gallons.

Solar how long do you let yours sit for before its ready to drink? I've been reading 2-3 months...2 months would be thanksgiving, 3 months christmas....rather drink sooner than later haha


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## SolarAndWood (Oct 2, 2010)

2-3 months is probably about right, the yeast isn't always predictable.  We'll suck the junk off the bottom every few weeks.  Half will get stabilizer when its done and go into normal bottles. The other half will get a little more yeast and sugar when it is put in champagne bottles.  We are not in too much of a hurry as we still have a couple cases of elderberry, strawberry, raspberry, blackberry, blueberry and apple from past production.


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 13, 2010)

Have you tried yours yet Bernie?  We did the suck the junk off the bottom thing this week.  While we had the top off anyway, I couldn't help myself.  Already very good, should be awesome when its done.


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