# 2014-2015 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)



## Dieselhead

well folks here it is, another burning season upon us and hey, nobody else started one of the more popular threads so I figure I might as well. 

I've read along for the last 2 seasons about all the hocus pocus, Tom foolery, etc. and now have become part of the pack. I installed my BKK ultra over the summer and woke her up for the first time this morning and now will see what all the voodoo magic is about. I loaded about 30 lbs of wood to do my break in fire, cats engaged, cruising right along around 500 stovetop right above the cat, 300-400 elsewhere. 




	

		
			
		

		
	
 I got the windows open, letting the first burn stank out. Smell reminds me of well done pancakes on the griddle 44 degrees overnight last night, about the same for tonight.  I'm gonna attach a few pics, let's have some good chatter over a nice warm catylictic fire. Stay warm folks, DH


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## Dieselhead

Cat having its breakfast, nothing visible from the stack at all. Wife liked the visible show from the old stove with secondary tubes we had, she doesn't really know all she will see is the glow.  I think she associated the flames with warmth, I know I'm over it already. Old stove was great but I had a shift change and am not home for 24hrs at a time so I needed a cat stove to plug along while I'm away.


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## 05ramctd

This was the start of last night


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## 05ramctd

The king runs good around 2 in the normal zone with wood that has been in there for 8 to 12 hours. Woke up for work at 5 this morning and nice and toasty down stairs.  Just right up stairs for me but the wife wants more heat up any ideas.


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## R'Lee

Old fashion type floor vent (?).
I have a BKK Ultra with 1500 Sq ft ranch.  We keep our bedroom doors CLOSED wait a few years (*the bride will put out enough heat!) Ha!


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## Parallax

Dieselhead said:


> well folks here it is, another burning season upon us and hey, nobody else started one of the more popular threads so I figure I might as well.
> 
> I've read along for the last 2 seasons about all the hocus pocus, Tom foolery, etc. and now have become part of the pack. I installed my BKK ultra over the summer and woke her up for the first time this morning and now will see what all the voodoo magic is about. I loaded about 30 lbs of wood to do my break in fire, cats engaged, cruising right along around 500 stovetop right above the cat, 300-400 elsewhere.
> 
> View attachment 140372
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the windows open, letting the first burn stank out. Smell reminds me of well done pancakes on the griddle 44 degrees overnight last night, about the same for tonight.  I'm gonna attach a few pics, let's have some good chatter over a nice warm catylictic fire. Stay warm folks, DH



Nice looking install. I don't generally like the King but in your house it looks great. Goes really well with the stone, tile and simple (almost Craftsman style) wood work.


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## tigger

Does the cat glow the entire time it's in the active range? I'm about half way into the active range but it's not glowing.


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## R'Lee

tigger said:


> Does the cat glow the entire time it's in the active range? I'm about half way into the active range but it's not glowing.


Not always obvious or apparent;  if it says it in range and, she putting out heat; your good.  As far as asthetics,  to me at about real performance.   Last year's propane bill after a decade of going to the dark side (*left wood for simplicity) coasted me back into the fold...   The fire i started Friday evening just now started to die out...  added more wood


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## Rossco

Well we have a newborn in the house (What a ride) so I decided to switch the stove on.

Basement Princess.





Just cruising at 308C or 586F. 





Cat. 





Mix of Larch / Pine 40/60.


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## Dieselhead

My cat stopped glowing after a couple hrs also. Still stays plenty into the active range and maybe a whisp of smoke out of the stack once and a while. This mornings small load kept it in the active range for about 10 hrs.


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## Dieselhead

Parallax said:


> Nice looking install. I don't generally like the King but in your house it looks great. Goes really well with the stone, tile and simple (almost Craftsman style) wood work.


Thanks for the compliment parallax!


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## Parallax

On my Ashford, I can't see the cat. At least I've not found it yet.


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## HotCoals

The cat will be active as long as there is enough smoke for her to eat.
Always remember that the cat probe will always pick up the stove top temp. That means the qauge could be in the active zone but doesn't always mean the cat is active. Depends on if there is enough food(smoke) for the cat...lol.


Just like with the tube stove guys..they get great secondary's for the first 3 or 4 hours i guess...plenty of smoke(gas).
I think our cats go a little longer then the tubes because of the lower ignition point needed to burn the smoke with the cat.
Something like that anyways...lol.

I started a fire with 20#  of the Redstone bricks at 1:00 pm today.

Took awhile to get er going good but I just now reloaded again with another 20 lbs.
So far I'm not all that impressed with the first 20 lbs but I did start with a cold stove.
So now that I have some coals and a nice warm stove we shall see.
44f here.


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## Ricky8443

Started a new cold princess insert tonight in a cold house after being away all weekend. Wow, Im impressed, entire house is very warm. 40 outside, 73 inside. Wife loves the warmth. Its nice to keep that oil burner quiet, bring on winter.


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## 05ramctd

So if the dial is near or in the inactive zone should I flip the lever to the bypass mode.  Will it hurt the CAT if I do not.


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## HotCoals

05ramctd said:


> So if the dial is near or in the inactive zone should I flip the lever to the bypass mode.  Will it hurt the CAT if I do not.



No ,you're fine.
At the end of a burn there just isn't enough smoke.

Now if it drops big time just into the burn after a 1/2 hour or so then maybe the cat stalled from lack of smoke. Then yes open the air/t-stat back up get her going good again then shut it back down in stages till you find the sweet spot.
I think most can shut the t-stat right down to the lowest setting and be ok. I know I get away with it. But In have stalled the cat a few times by not charring the wood enough before doing that.


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## 05ramctd

Thanks again.


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## Parallax

This time of year, I can only shut it down to 2 or maybe 1 1/2. We'll see what it's like once the weather gets cold. Right now, we're dropping into the 50s at night. Cold for us is dropping into the 30s, though occasionally we'll get a cold snap. I think the low I've seen so far (in my three winters here) was 15 degrees (or thereabout).


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## Rossco

Yeah am running mine on 1.5 - 2 as it don't draft like it does @ -30. 

I run the Pi55 out of mine. But not in a way that wastes energy up the flue. 

I could run it dead'ish but I want heat not extreme longevity.


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## Seanm

Rossco said:


> Well we have a newborn in the house (What a ride)


Thats great! Congratulations on the baby! Its such an exciting time and very, very magical. Hope mom is doing ok and getting a bit of sleep!


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## Rossco

Seanm said:


> Thats great! Congratulations on the baby! Its such an exciting time and very, very magical. Hope mom is doing ok and getting a bit of sleep!



Thank you very much. We spent the last 4 days in Vancouver NICU.

Everything and everyone is 'A' Ok.

"Dedicated to the glory of god and the sanctity of the family"


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## Parallax

Congrats Rossco. My wife and I have a two month old so we're in the same club. Only probable difference is I'm 51 and also have two older kids, ages 28 and 23. My wife didn't have children of her own so this one was for her. But now that he's here, it's amazingly wonderful. I'd forgotten how much one's heart opens to a baby. 

Is this your first or are you an old hand?


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## Dieselhead

36 outside this am, started up the stove cold and she's up and running smelling like pancakes again. Making me hungry I'm gonna go eat some breakfast now that I have fed the cat


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## Ricky8443

Quick few questions. 1) Late night while burning in active zone on setting '1', I saw a lot of smoke inside the firebox, could hardly see the wood. Is that normal for the princess insert? 2) Is the smell of curing paint harmless? Woke up with a headache and that is unusual for me. 3) When I turned a flashlight on in the house there was a 'haze' in front of the beam. Was that the paint curing smoke? thx.


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## jeff_t

1. yes
2. you should ventilate. The fumes while actually applying the Stove Brite (OEM) paint are really nasty and can hurt you. The paint curing is probably not as bad, but still not good. 
3. probably


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## Ricky8443

How many burns until I can expect the smell to go away? Thx in advance,


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## Highbeam

HotCoals said:


> Now if it drops big time just into the burn after a 1/2 hour or so then maybe the cat stalled from lack of smoke. Then yes open the air/t-stat back up get her going good again then shut it back down in stages till you find the sweet spot.
> I think most can shut the t-stat right down to the lowest setting and be ok. I know I get away with it. But In have stalled the cat a few times by not charring the wood enough before doing that.


 
I've been doing this for awhile and reading about these stoves for even longer. I have only ever heard of one person able to run their stove with the stat set to zero, and that's hotcoals. Everybody else, including me that wants max burn times, has to run their stat at settings above 1. No harm in trying but be prepared to bump the stat back up to your low limit. BK, I think BKVP, told us any setting between 1 and 3 is "safe". The normal range on the freestanders is even a narrower range.


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## Highbeam

Dieselhead said:


> 36 outside this am, started up the stove cold and she's up and running smelling like pancakes again. Making me hungry I'm gonna go eat some breakfast now that I have fed the cat


 
I remember that pancake smell. I get it a bit every year when burning off the summer's dust.


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## Rossco

Parallax said:


> Congrats Rossco. My wife and I have a two month old so we're in the same club. Only probable difference is I'm 51 and also have two older kids, ages 28 and 23. My wife didn't have children of her own so this one was for her. But now that he's here, it's amazingly wonderful. I'd forgotten how much one's heart opens to a baby.
> 
> Is this your first or are you an old hand?



Ah Iam just a nipper in comparison. 

Good for you guys. Greatest gift you could have ever given to the wife. 

We have a 2 1/2 yr old as well. 

The BK was still warm last time I checked an hour ago or so. Not gonna fire her back up till the evening.


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## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> I've been doing this for awhile and reading about these stoves for even longer. I have only ever heard of one person able to run their stove with the stat set to zero, and that's hotcoals. Everybody else, including me that wants max burn times, has to run their stat at settings above 1. No harm in trying but be prepared to bump the stat back up to your low limit. BK, I think BKVP, told us any setting between 1 and 3 is "safe". The normal range on the freestanders is even a narrower range.



Well the last few hours of a burn I have to turn the the t-stat up.
I have left it around 1.5 and then the t-stat will open some on its own but usually I have to turn it up more yet to burn down some of the coals.

My flue is straight up through two story's and I'm on a decent little hill so maybe that's why I can get away with just the air from the idle hole.


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## Dieselhead

That small 6 split or so load is still going from 8am. I came home around 5:30 and the cat probe was right at the inactive/active mark. I said to myself, hey 9 hrs on a half dozen smaller splits ain't too bad. 5 min ago I just looked and now its 1/4" into the active zone!   Barely anything left in the box, I don't know how it does it but it does!


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## Rickb

Highbeam said:


> I've been doing this for awhile and reading about these stoves for even longer. I have only ever heard of one person able to run their stove with the stat set to zero, and that's hotcoals. Everybody else, including me that wants max burn times, has to run their stat at settings above 1. No harm in trying but be prepared to bump the stat back up to your low limit. BK, I think BKVP, told us any setting between 1 and 3 is "safe". The normal range on the freestanders is even a narrower range.



I run mine at the lowest setting.  Its well below 0.


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## HotCoals

Dieselhead said:


> That small 6 split or so load is still going from 8am. I came home around 5:30 and the cat probe was right at the inactive/active mark. I said to myself, hey 9 hrs on a half dozen smaller splits ain't too bad. 5 min ago I just looked and now its 1/4" into the active zone!   Barely anything left in the box, I don't know how it does it but it does!



The t-stat must have opened some. 
The stat is a little slow and to me really does not move much like I thought it wold but it does work.
My cover has been off for 3 years so I can see what is going on easier.
i have not been arrested to date over it yet but i would not advise to do the same.


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## Rossco

CAT just lit off. Had no trouble lighting it up tonight. It ain't cold out either but new borns need heat (Especially sick ones) no forced air is money in the bank. 

Must have some positive pressure in the basement.


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## HotCoals

Yep so nice not to have to listen to fans from my forced air heat pump and the big toaster in the basement!


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## Shane Collins

Hope the newborn gets better soon, Rossco!  You guys are getting me even more excited.  I was waiting for this thread to pop up this year.  My BK Ashford arrives and gets installed this friday and the temps are dropping too!  My wife and I cannot wait to fire it up.  Somebody just asked in here but I saw no reply, roughly how long does it take for the paint curing smells to stop??  I'll probably be posting some photos on friday/saturday of the new stove.  Last year I struggled to get our house above 64.  This winter is going to be much different


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## Rossco

Yeah I don't like the forced air. Noisy flipping thing.

We have a draft coming in through a back bed room. I might have finally sealed it up with some silicone & paper towel. Now you can feel the temp starting to rise. I have the stove running @ 1.25 so its pretty dead. My friend runs his BK completely closed down but only during -20 to -30C. The draft is voracious at them temps. I will experiment when Jack Frost comes knocking. 

Shane: Thanks. Took me a whole day to cure the paint. That's progressive, hot fast burns. I still get a little wiff now and then when it's cranked.


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## Seanm

Shane Collins said:


> Somebody just asked in here but I saw no reply, roughly how long does it take for the paint curing smells to stop??


You will get that smell each time your stove reaches a new high temperature.


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## weatherguy

Seanm said:


> You will get that smell each time your stove reaches a new high temperature.


Yes, and once you get it real hot for a long, cold night that should be the end of it.


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## Rossco

Yeah once I got it warmed up I ran the P155 out of it. I think I had 450C on top with actual smoke coming off the stove. Don't think I will see that again. Also I had a new 12" and two 45* DWP sections that need to be baptized with fire.


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## Parallax

Shane Collins said:


> Hope the newborn gets better soon, Rossco!  You guys are getting me even more excited.  I was waiting for this thread to pop up this year.  My BK Ashford arrives and gets installed this friday and the temps are dropping too!  My wife and I cannot wait to fire it up.  Somebody just asked in here but I saw no reply, roughly how long does it take for the paint curing smells to stop??  I'll probably be posting some photos on friday/saturday of the new stove.  Last year I struggled to get our house above 64.  This winter is going to be much different



We just had our Ashford installed this past June. Smell was way worse than I expected; the whole damn house filled with smoke. We ran it with the windows open. My wife has a very sensitive nose but within a few days it was fine.


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## Zanimal

Does the brand of firebrick matter?
I just cleaned my Ashford and there were a couple bricks in the back that had cracked. I got some from tractor supply to replace them but they are very dense and not at porous like the ones that came in the stove.
The manual does not say anything about using a certain type of firebrick.
It does say that there is a ceramic blanket that they sit on. Mine are just sitting on the steel bottom of the firebox.

Now I just need a polar vortex.


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## NHcpa

Dieselhead said:


> well folks here it is, another burning season upon us and hey, nobody else started one of the more popular threads so I figure I might as well.
> 
> I've read along for the last 2 seasons about all the hocus pocus, Tom foolery, etc. and now have become part of the pack. I installed my BKK ultra over the summer and woke her up for the first time this morning and now will see what all the voodoo magic is about. I loaded about 30 lbs of wood to do my break in fire, cats engaged, cruising right along around 500 stovetop right above the cat, 300-400 elsewhere.
> 
> View attachment 140372
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the windows open, letting the first burn stank out. Smell reminds me of well done pancakes on the griddle 44 degrees overnight last night, about the same for tonight.  I'm gonna attach a few pics, let's have some good chatter over a nice warm catylictic fire. Stay warm folks, DH


Great looking install.  Every once in awhile someone posts an install that just gets it all together. Form, style, color, texture....  you nailed it!


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## Rickb

Rossco said:


> Yeah I don't like the forced air. Noisy flipping thing.




Try staying in a hotel room after you get the stove running for the winter.... Its soo loud!


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## Rich2343

Rickb said:


> I run mine at the lowest setting.  Its well below 0.


Do you have a photo of you themo set at 0 and was wondering what temps your getting and is it with or with out the fans.?


Rickb said:


> I run mine at the lowest setting.  Its well below 0.


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## webby3650

Parallax said:


> On my Ashford, I can't see the cat. At least I've not found it yet.


Have you looked up into the top of the stove? Especially when it was new, it was hard to miss! Over time it gets more stable, at first its a little over active. Here's what I see.


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## Highbeam

Rich2343 said:


> Do you have a photo of you themo set at 0 and was wondering what temps your getting and is it with or with out the fans.?


 
My princess stat doesn't even have a 0 setting. I looked last night and the only numbers are 1,2, and 3. Further, we all know and expect to hear the clack of the stat closing somewhere around 1 on a cold stove. This means that if you are trying to run at a setting below that cold temp clack point of 1 or so, that your stat will never open. It's out of the game. Do you suppose a leaky door gasket would be the source of combustion air allowing you to defeat the stat this way?


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## Highbeam

webby3650 said:


> Have you looked up into the top of the stove? Especially when it was new, it was hard to miss! Over time it gets more stable, at first its a little over active. Here's what I see.


 
Same on the princess. Once of the great things about all of the current BK cat stoves is that you can watch that cat glow.


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## Rich2343

Highbeam said:


> Same on the princess. Once of the great things about all of the current BK cat stoves is that you can watch that cat glow.


I wish I could it dosnt stay lite very long If it dose. Buying kiln dryer wood, Eco bricks. Stove has 2 winters under its chimney. Ever so flustrated


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## jeff_t

Zanimal said:


> Does the brand of firebrick matter?
> I just cleaned my Ashford and there were a couple bricks in the back that had cracked. I got some from tractor supply to replace them but they are very dense and not at porous like the ones that came in the stove.
> The manual does not say anything about using a certain type of firebrick.
> It does say that there is a ceramic blanket that they sit on. Mine are just sitting on the steel bottom of the firebox.
> 
> Now I just need a polar vortex.



If you type 'pumice fire brick' in the search box, you'll come up with a bunch of reading.

My sister's King Classic has the blanket on the bottom. I have no idea about my stove, never any bricks out.


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## Dieselhead

The ultra does, it's pretty thin I noticed it when I stripped the stove down to move it around for installation


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## blueguy

Zanimal said:


> It does say that there is a ceramic blanket that they sit on. Mine are just sitting on the steel bottom of the firebox.



My Sirocco 30 has one as well.


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## Rickb

Rich2343 said:


> Do you have a photo of you themo set at 0 and was wondering what temps your getting and is it with or with out the fans.?






Cant get a pic but It you were looking at a clock mine is 1 - 4  1 is at about 1o'clock  The 4 is at about 5 o'clock  Cold the stoves thermo clicks right about the 1o'clock mark.  Hot with dry wood I turn the thermostat back past the 1'oclock counter clockwise till it stops which is about 7o'clock and it runs with the cat about half way for hours and hours.  9-10 hours later there is only some coals left and the stove is still pretty warm.  I usually only burn at night during the week.  We are on a hill with lots of windows and even at -10f outside if its sunny its 75 in the house.


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## Heatsource

jeff_t said:


> Stove Brite (OEM) paint



they dont use stove bright anymore, fyi


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## jeff_t

Thanks for that, Dave. My stove was old when I bought it new. Stove Brite metallic black.


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## webby3650

They had been using Satin Black Stove Bright, but they switched to Metallic Black from Crossroads. 
http://www.crossroadscoatings.com/high-temperature-coatings.html


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## Dieselhead

Bk is asleep for the next few days, between solar gain and just all around warm outside temps no need to fire the beast. I will say though I look forward to the day when I get to stuff it to the brim and get to see that 24 hr burn I've read about for the last few years. I haven't even moved wood to the porch yet, it's too soon, maybe next week to give the house the look and let stuff start to get its final time on earth before being consumed and turned into dust like everything else that walks the earth....

Alright that was dark lol


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## Parallax

Dieselhead said:


> Bk is asleep for the next few days, between solar gain and just all around warm outside temps no need to fire the beast. I will say though I look forward to the day when I get to stuff it to the brim and get to see that 24 hr burn I've read about for the last few years. I haven't even moved wood to the porch yet, it's too soon, maybe next week to give the house the look and let stuff start to get its final time on earth before being consumed and turned into dust like everything else that walks the earth....
> 
> Alright that was dark lol



Not dark; beautiful. Ashes to ashes.


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## tigger

Deep thoughts with Jack Handy


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## Dieselhead

Alright guy scratch all that soft talk about the stove taking a nap etc..... 67 in the castle and low of 43 tonight the king is now stirring. The kicker is it's the first time the wife is home when the king is awake, hope she dosent ask to go to the 24 hr diner after smelling the pancakes (new paint curing lol)


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## Parallax

Very impressive. But my Ashford didn't smell anything like pancakes. More like toxic waste. Perhaps it's something about the enamel finish.


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## BrotherBart

Parallax said:


> Very impressive. But my Ashford didn't smell anything like pancakes. More like toxic waste. Perhaps it's something about the enamel finish.



Never go to dieselhead's house for breakfast.


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## Dieselhead

Ha! Maybe it's the Teflon from the pan, not the pancakes


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## Rich2343

Dieselhead said:


> Ha! Maybe it's the Teflon from the pan, not the pancakes


BK princess owners how hot and how many hrs in a filling do you get.?


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## Parallax




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## tarzan

Just purchased my ticket to the 14-15 BK thread yesterday in the form of a Princess Parlor. She's setting 3' from the hearth, waiting on side shields to make there way from Washington to my holler.

For some reason, I was hoping by posting it in this thread I could avoid Brother Bart finding out I had gotten a cat! But I can see he's been peepin round the corner.

O'l well, it's still a big honkin steel stove so maybe...


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## Dieselhead

Welcome to the most boring show on earth  (for viewing a fire anyways)


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## Rossco

Well. After allot of advise / guidance from people in the real world and people in the cyber world av come to a conclusion.

This stove works best on 1.5!

Friend warned me to run in the 'Norm' only as it will plug the chimney. So I burnt a load of Larch in 5 hours without the cat lighting up, And again with a mixture of wood.

So the last few burns have been @ 1.5'ish and its just cruising. Cat is lit right up, Stove top is 500-600F. Flue is hot, just cruising. Majority of the wood is still present. 12-18hr burns are viable. 

Weird.


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## Parallax

Touched up the paint on my stove pipe a few days ago. Big mistake. Wife hasn't been willing to be in the house since then. She's not angry. In fact, she's been really sweet about it. 

Right now, I've got the stove running full bore and the windows in the house open, top to bottom. It's taking days to get rid of the horrible plastic smell. Starting to wonder if it will ever leave.


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## Rossco

Parallax said:


> Touched up the paint on my stove pipe a few days ago. Big mistake. Wife hasn't been willing to be in the house since then. She's not angry. In fact, she's been really sweet about it.
> 
> Right now, I've got the stove running full bore and the windows in the house open, top to bottom. It's taking days to get rid of the horrible plastic smell. Starting to wonder if it will ever leave.



Oh it might take a while. 

Mine is in the basement and Iam happy I can still smell it a little. Means the warm air is getting up on the main floor.


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## 05ramctd

It does take a while,  Wife left with the kids the other day, figured I would take it up another notch. Well had all the doors and windows open and the attic fan on. Hopefully seasoned good enough for the deep freeze of winter. I learned dont paint the pipe with just flat black to make it look good. It burns brown and is a pain to get off.


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## webby3650

05ramctd said:


> It does take a while,  Wife left with the kids the other day, figured I would take it up another notch. Well had all the doors and windows open and the attic fan on. Hopefully seasoned good enough for the deep freeze of winter. I learned dont paint the pipe with just flat black to make it look good. It burns brown and is a pain to get off.


Flat black is fine to paint pipe with. Are you using Stove Bright? It shouldn't be turning off color for many years.


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## tarzan

Ok, I get it now. Decided to do a small break in fire a few nights ago with several pieces of kindlin and one regular split of wood resplit down the middle.

I was just intending on opening some windows and burning off the paint smell. Well, one thing led to another. Next thing I new the cat was active and the dang thing stayed that way for 8 hours.

Gonna take some getting used to though. Every time I looked at the fire box my first instinct was to turn the draft up even though cat was well into the active zone and stove top temp was around 450. Wife was also enamored by the amount of heat it was putting out while " not burning wood" even though she kept looking through the glass and nicknamed it " the dark Obiss" . However you spell that.


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## HotCoals

tarzan said:


> Ok, I get it now. Decided to do a small break in fire a few nights ago with several pieces of kindlin and one regular split of wood resplit down the middle.
> 
> I was just intending on opening some windows and burning off the paint smell. Well, one thing led to another. Next thing I new the cat was active and the dang thing stayed that way for 8 hours.
> 
> Gonna take some getting used to though. Every time I looked at the fire box my first instinct was to turn the draft up even though cat was well into the active zone and stove top temp was around 450. *Wife was also enamored by the amount of heat it was putting out while " not burning wood" even though she kept looking through the glass and nicknamed it " the dark Obiss" . However you spell that.*



Welcome to the dark side!
For sure when the glass gets all black..lol.
Just crank the heat up and most of the time you can burn a lot of it off. Most of the times when I do that I have the by-pass open though.


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## Rossco

Well 22 hours she ran for last load. That was on a load of pine & spruce.

Loaded her up again around 15:30 with a bunch of larch and some pine. Fired right off.

Basically set it to 1.4 and let her rip. 590F ontop. Told the wife to notch it upto 1.5 later and increase if required before she hits the sack. Doing my last Nightshift tonight. Will see how it looks at 08:00 MST.


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## tarzan

Ok guys, is this normal?

First time running the stove all day yesterday. With draft set at 1.5 and stove top temps ranging from 375 to 450. Blower running on low and cat thermometer staying somewhere in the first half of the active zone.

While outside, was monitoring the stack and noticed it ranged from no smoke to whispes of smoke to a steady lite smoke.


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## R'Lee

Yeah, kinda normal; depending on the wood moisture level. At about 20-23% I have the same.  *Just be sure to run your stove on high about once per day for perhaps an hour to keep it cleaned out, then slowly back it down every 10 minutes or so in small increments to your desired setting. With my 8% wood, I'll see a wisp every once in a long-while; mostly CO2 and even then, I still use the *procedures noted above.  It's more evident with me tho when it's cold enough to see your breath


----------



## Dieselhead

What's your guys procedure for a hot reload? I'm talking cat active, about half a Bellys worth of wood left but say going away for a day or so and want to get it full again. 

I read opening the door on a hot cat isn't great for it. Do you open the bypass and let it cool down then open to reload?

Then I imagine leave the bypass open and the air open and let the new wood get going and the cat back up to temp then shut everything back down?


----------



## HotCoals

Well  the stove is not 100% emissions free even in cruise.


----------



## Poindexter

Dieselhead said:


> What's your guys procedure for a hot reload? I'm talking cat active, about half a Bellys worth of wood left but say going away for a day or so and want to get it full again.
> 
> I read opening the door on a hot cat isn't great for it. Do you open the bypass and let it cool down then open to reload?
> 
> Then I imagine leave the bypass open and the air open and let the new wood get going and the cat back up to temp then shut everything back down?



That's pretty much what I gleaned from the manual, what my local dealer suggests and what I do.  Besides possibly thermal shocking the combustor, opening the loading door with the cat engaged pretty much assures a room full of smoke in 0.62 seconds.  You won't do that twice, ask me how I know ;-)

Same timing after work, but in the AM I flip the lever to bypass and turn the thermostat up to 3.  Go feed the house cat while the remaining coals light back up.  

Crack door, wait.  Open door slowly, etc, just letting the flue gasses get moving so I don't get a bunch of smoke in the house.  Once I got the door open i kinda wrangle my chunks around with the poker like implement that came with the stove.  

I don't have a bunch of free time in the AM, so I kinda try to have a line of hot coals running across the front of the floor just inside the door- quickest way I have found to get the cat back into active.  Once I have enough coals along the front edge to assure a pretty quick warm up I load mine front to back.  I know the book says side to side and it works OK side to side, but I don't like having splits roll off the top of the burning pile into the window glass while I am not home.

Fill it up to the brim.  I put the door handle in the closed position with the door open, and then I close the door to where the latch hook meets the latch eye so the door is just barely cracked open while the new load is getting lit up.

While I am waiting for the flue to come up to temp with the door cracked I throw some clothes on, move the water that just came out of the distiller into the humidifier, refill the distiller with tap water and get both of those moving again.

Once I have lit wood and a hot flue, close the door, leave the thermostat on three and wait for the cat to get active....Once everything is hot enough I engage the cat, leave the thermostat on three and go to work.  My wife gets up about an hour later to a pretty warm house and turns the thermostat down to some other lower number before she leaves for her work.

In the afternoon, repeat.  I tend to bring wood up from the garage to the stove once a day.  I come home from work to an empty  fireside wood box, put the first load from the garage into the firebox and then make a second trip while I am waiting for the flue to heat up.  Deal with the humidifier and distiller, I am done for another twelve hours.


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter said:


> That's pretty much what I gleaned from the manual, what my local dealer suggests and what I do.  Besides possibly thermal shocking the combustor, opening the loading door with the cat engaged pretty much assures a room full of smoke in 0.62 seconds.  You won't do that twice, ask me how I know ;-)
> 
> Same timing after work, but in the AM I flip the lever to bypass and turn the thermostat up to 3.  Go feed the house cat while the remaining coals light back up.
> 
> Crack door, wait.  Open door slowly, etc, just letting the flue gasses get moving so I don't get a bunch of smoke in the house.  Once I got the door open i kinda wrangle my chunks around with the poker like implement that came with the stove.
> 
> I don't have a bunch of free time in the AM, so I kinda try to have a line of hot coals running across the front of the floor just inside the door- quickest way I have found to get the cat back into active.  Once I have enough coals along the front edge to assure a pretty quick warm up I load mine front to back.  I know the book says side to side and it works OK side to side, but I don't like having splits roll off the top of the burning pile into the window glass while I am not home.
> 
> Fill it up to the brim.  I put the door handle in the closed position with the door open, and then I close the door to where the latch hook meets the latch eye so the door is just barely cracked open while the new load is getting lit up.
> 
> While I am waiting for the flue to come up to temp with the door cracked I throw some clothes on, move the water that just came out of the distiller into the humidifier, refill the distiller with tap water and get both of those moving again.
> 
> Once I have lit wood and a hot flue, close the door, leave the thermostat on three and wait for the cat to get active....Once everything is hot enough I engage the cat, leave the thermostat on three and go to work.  My wife gets up about an hour later to a pretty warm house and turns the thermostat down to some other lower number before she leaves for her work.
> 
> In the afternoon, repeat.  I tend to bring wood up from the garage to the stove once a day.  I come home from work to an empty  fireside wood box, put the first load from the garage into the firebox and then make a second trip while I am waiting for the flue to heat up.  Deal with the humidifier and distiller, I am done for another twelve hours.



Man I cannot get my head around leaving the stove on 3 for a whole hour.

Once I get it active I turn it down. Then the heat starts to roll. When I left the Thermo up higher it just blew the heat up the flue, Cat not lit up, burning the wood instead of cooking it. 

Even with the warm ambient, draft robbing weather I couldn't leave it up there. I would be afraid of an 'Over fire' situation.


----------



## weatherguy

Rossco said:


> Man I cannot get my head around leaving the stove on 3 for a whole hour.
> 
> Once I get it active I turn it down. Then the heat starts to roll. When I left the Thermo up higher it just blew the heat up the flue, Cat not lit up, burning the wood instead of cooking it.
> 
> Even with the warm ambient, draft robbing weather I couldn't leave it up there. I would be afraid of an 'Over fire' situation.


Yeah, I never could burn my Princess that high either, it was usually at the first or second dot (insert has 8 or so dots).


----------



## aansorge

24 hour loads on a cold stove and 36 on a warm stove for this time of year.  This will change to 24 hour loads in a month and 12 hour loads in January and Feb.


----------



## Rich2343

aansorge said:


> 24 hour loads on a cold stove and 36 on a warm stove for this time of year.  This will change to 24 hour loads in a month and 12 hour loads in January and Feb.


aansorge what stove do you have .? Also how hot is your stove during  Jan/ Feb.?


----------



## aansorge

My stove is a King.  I don't have a pyrometer for my stove but it is working to heat a rather leaky large house in Minnesota. I use my other stove (in my signature) on the really cold days to fully heat my home with ease. 3000 sq ft.


----------



## Poindexter

Rossco said:


> Man I cannot get my head around leaving the stove on 3 for a whole hour.
> 
> Once I get it active I turn it down. Then the heat starts to roll. When I left the Thermo up higher it just blew the heat up the flue, Cat not lit up, burning the wood instead of cooking it.
> 
> Even with the warm ambient, draft robbing weather I couldn't leave it up there. I would be afraid of an 'Over fire' situation.



I am about to find out.  I last loaded the stove at 5PM yesterday.  Took the wife to the airport this morning early, she is in Arizona visiting one of the kids for a week. Good time to let the stove burn out and get cold.  I have run about two face cords of 16" splits through it since late August when I cleaned the flue last. I wanted to get out to a full cord before I cleaned the chimney, but opportunity is knocking.

So I loaded the stove last night at 5PM.  I maintained an interior temp of 80-85dF for 23 hours and 36 minutes, at 4:36PM today my interior temp dropped from 80 to 79 dF.  At 5PM today I had enough coals left in the ash bed to get the stove going again without needing a match, so my first (almost) 24 hour burn.  Yay!  My overnight low last night was about +24dF, daytime high was +34dF, stove pretty much cruised with the thermostat set at 1.5.  In all fairness, knowing I was about to clean the flue and shovel out the ashes I did open it up a couple or three times to re-arrange the charcoal chunks for complete combustion.

Once the stove burns out and cools off I'll brush the chimney to see what I get.  I also want to let the oil furnace burn for a couple days, I got hot water baseboard primary heat and some of that water hasn't moved in six weeks or so.

I do have a magnetic thermometer on my double wall stack.  General consensus is the actual temp of my flue gasses is "about" double that shown on my magnetic thermometer.  But I do know how hot I had to keep the flue last year to get grey powder instead of shiny black sheets out of the flue, I was looking for "350dF" indicated as kind of a minimum sort of average number to find grey powder in the chimney sweepings last year.

Last year's stove for me was an Ovation Country Flame 2600, 2.6cf firebox, epa cert non cat.  This year I am running a BK Ashford 30.  When I refill the BK I run it with the door cracked until I see "400dF" indicated on my stack thermometer.  That's the point I close the door and let the cat finish getting hot before switching from bypass to engaged.  In general I see my indicated stack temp drop from 400 indicated to 325ish or so while the cat finishes heating up, this with the thermostat on 3 and the door closed, in bypass.

Freshly engaged, full load with the thermostat on 3 I commonly see the combustor probe 2/3 up from just barely active toward getting overfired, but my indicated stack temps are down in the 300-350 range.   Hours later with the thermostat having been on 1.0 to 1.5 I commonly observe the combustor probe perhaps half a finger width or one finger width up into active, with an indicated stack temp around 200dF.

Based on my experience with a different stove I am seeing uncomfortably low stack temps with my BK.  OTOH if my combustor is doing it's job I may be pleasantly surprised when I brush out the chimney.  I don't recall if it was my local dealer or the BK manual that said to run the thing wide open for an hour or so with every fill up; I have been doing it but didn't think it up myself.

I want to look around the bypass door with a good flashlight while the stove is cold to see if I have any crud accumulated there.  So not Monday night, and I am on call Tuesday night, so probably Wednesday after work I'll open it up and brush it out.


----------



## aansorge

From my experience, the BK will generate more creosote (by far) than a non-cat.  I got zero creosote from my non-cat after 6 months of burning.  I got about a gallon of creosote in the chimney of my Blaze King.  I'm sure the blaze king does a great job on emissions, but with the low stack temps the stuff just plates out on the chimney.


----------



## Rossco

Ah well good for you. I just lit mine off for the night and ran it on 3 for a while. Dam I couldn't just leave it like that and go to work. Although you have experience with YOUR set up and have confidence in it. I respect that for sure.

I like to get the cat lit off. Once it's off then am sure the output is fairly clean.

The creosote build up in the flue will drain back into the stove. Although I had a little leakage I think that was operator error more than anything else. The residual build up has sealed the flue I guess. Iam averaging 70-100C on the outside of the DWP, so it must be pretty warm inside. I will check the SS chimney next week.

I have it roaring at 1.5, must be a good flue / chimney set up, when its -20C I will have to run it virtually off.

EDIT: Dam am bored. Wife's watching back to back 'Coronation Street'

So anyhow, she's been on for a few hours. Set @ 1.5





Stove pipe temps. DWP. 80C





About 300C ontop.


----------



## Poindexter

Rossco I am in a 30 year old house and I am one of the few people on the planet that lives further north than you do ;-)  I read your posts very carefully because you are closer to my climate than just about anyone else here.  I have been doing a bunch of maintenance and upkeep on the house since I moved in three years ago; I am closing in on the tipping point to needing either an OAK or a HRV, but I am not quite there yet.

Installing an HRV in two story existing construction with over a meter of blown in cellulose in the attic space is not economical.  I could add rigid foam to the exterior, but to do that right I should put a vapor barrier layer on the existing wood siding and then put 8-9" of rigid foam on the outside of the house, with a new layer of weather proof siding on it.  So there is $100k just in materials on a $250-300k house, and I would need to take down all the drywall on the exterior walls, take down the existing vapor barrier between the studs and old drywall and then put up new drywall, just not cost effective.  If I thought my kids would bequeath this house to my grandkids and the grandkids would raise their children in this house, yup, I might do it.

In the meantime I put up with the air leaks, keep mold at bay, and burn a little bit more wood.

The other thing is my wife likes it "hot".   When I leave the house at 0600 with the cat engaged and the thermostat on three I know perfectly well the house is heating right up.  I figure somewhere around 0645-0700 she pushes the blanket off the bed onto the floor and keeps sleeping under the sheet.  Around 0715 or so the sheet ends up in a wad over on my side of the bed and when her alarm goes off at 0730 she is ready to get up just to turn the stove down.  Works for us, happy wife = happy life.


----------



## tarzan

I think I read in the manual to leave the stove on 3 for about 20 minutes after getting the fire established and cat active. This must depend on your set up because in my very limited experience (5 cold starts or reloads) about 10 minutes on high after engaging the cat I have some serious flames, 600 degree stove top, cat is well up in the active zone and I get a strong gut feeling that it's a couple minutes past time to start stepping it down.

Got to say though, it seems to be a very controlable and well behaved stove. So far, it has done what I told it to do.


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> I do have a magnetic thermometer on my double wall stack.  General consensus is the actual temp of my flue gasses is "about" double that shown on my magnetic thermometer. Last year's stove for me was an Ovation Country Flame 2600, 2.6cf firebox, epa cert non cat.  This year I am running a BK Ashford 30.  Based on my experience with a different stove I am seeing uncomfortably low stack temps with my BK.  OTOH if my combustor is doing it's job I may be pleasantly surprised when I brush out the chimney.  I don't recall if it was my local dealer or the BK manual that said to run the thing wide open for an hour or so with every fill up; I have been doing it but didn't think it up myself.
> I want to look around the bypass door with a good flashlight while the stove is cold to see if I have any crud accumulated there.  So not Monday night, and I am on call Tuesday night, so probably Wednesday after work I'll open it up and brush it out.


 
Whoa, I know you keep your home exceptionally hot in an exceptionally cold climate. I'll keep that in mind.

The outer temps of double wall pipe are absolutely not half of the internal temps. That is for single wall pipe. The only way to measure internal temps on a double wall pipe is with a probe meter. I have one from condar and I recommend them to anyone with double wall.

You don't use flue temps as a signal on when to engage the cat on a BK. They provided you with a cat meter for a reason, use that meter as your gauge for when to engage. As soon as it goes past the active line you are ready to flop the bypass.

Your non-cat sent tons of hot exhaust up the flue, that's how they burn clean. The non-cats burn hot, flood the flue and stove with oxygen, and heat to keep emissions low. The experiences you had with that stove are not going to relate to the BK that burns clean by actually burning up most what would be emissions right in the stove at even low burns. You will just about always have lower flue temps with a cat stove.



Rossco said:


> The creosote build up in the flue will drain back into the stove. Although I had a little leakage I think that was operator error more than anything else. The residual build up has sealed the flue I guess. Iam averaging 70-100C on the outside of the DWP, so it must be pretty warm inside. I will check the SS chimney next week.


 
So there are a few forms of creosote and then there is water. None of the forms of creosote will easily run back into the stove but the water that may condense in your cold chimney can run back down the flue and take with it (wash) some of the creo down. Your photos looked very thin and dried up like dirty water. We talk about brushing creosote because it is usually black or brown crunchy stuff. The BKs, in my experience, make much more black crunchy creosote than the non-cats but not so much that you need to sweep during the season. I have a 9 month burning season and only sweep once per year.

You cold climate guys certainly have some special conditions though and I recognize that things like -40F outside air might do odd things to creo accumulations.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Ok guys, is this normal?
> 
> First time running the stove all day yesterday. With draft set at 1.5 and stove top temps ranging from 375 to 450. Blower running on low and cat thermometer staying somewhere in the first half of the active zone.
> 
> While outside, was monitoring the stack and noticed it ranged from no smoke to whispes of smoke to a steady lite smoke.


 
Absolutely. In warmer outdoor temps my chimney is always switching from clear to light blue based on aliens. Light and nearly transparent but a blue emission for sure. When it is bitter cold, the moisture in the exhaust will also form more steam. The cool thing about the steam is that it forms some distance, like a foot or two, after the exhaust leaves the hot chimney. The steam will then disappear another 10 feet or so of travel. It's like a temporary smoke.


----------



## Woody Stover

tigger said:


> Deep thoughts


“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.” Jack Handey 


Poindexter said:


> over a meter of blown in cellulose in the attic space





tarzan said:


> avoid Brother Bart finding out I had gotten a cat! But I can see he's been peepin round the corner.


Oh, he's toyed with the idea from time to time.


R'Lee said:


> *Just be sure to run your stove on high about once per day for perhaps an hour to keep it cleaned out, then slowly back it down every 10 minutes or so in small increments to your desired setting.


Manual says that? That's something I recall hearing back in the day of the old smoke-blower stoves, but not in any recent manual I've read. I could be wrong. Maybe not for an hour, but doesn't that happen anyway for a time when burning in a new load? I have an exterior chimney (milder climate) and only get flaky stuff in the top few feet of the liner, where the masonry chimney has all four sides exposed. Below that, it's just powder. There will be some creo flakes that build up in the firebox, so I'll knock those off once in a while...


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter: I ain't knocking your set up, for sure not. Do wat ya godda do I guess. I too live in a slightly drafty house, but this is a good thing. Let the air recycle.

Shall be a good season, comparing stove operations during the dead of winter. You have an Ashford?

High beam: your post some what puts my mind at ease, I will check the 18' of SS chimney sooner rarther than later, I was gonna look today but the magic box is still running and throwing the heat out.

I have noticed how dirty the firebox can get, some flaky crap on the back wall, I knock it off if the stove is cool, it does burn off on high thou.


----------



## Rich2343

Rossco said:


> Poindexter: I ain't knocking your set up, for sure not. Do wat ya godda do I guess. I too live in a slightly drafty house, but this is a good thing. Let the air recycle.
> 
> Shall be a good season, comparing stove operations during the dead of winter. You have an Ashford?
> 
> High beam: your post some what puts my mind at ease, I will check the 18' of SS chimney sooner rarther than later, I was gonna look today but the magic box is still running and throwing the heat out.
> 
> I have noticed how dirty the firebox can get, some flaky crap on the back wall, I knock it off if the stove is cool, it does burn off on high thou.


I have 12' of 2 wall chimney wondering if  another 3' would make my Princess burn hotter and more efficient .?


----------



## kennyp2339

Hi all, I just ordered the BK princess parlor, all black. I plan on installing it in the basement. I have a weird setup. I can go through the cinder block wall then standoff the chimney about 14" away from the house due to a small soffit (can't go through due to new gutters) or I can go straight up through the first floor and then through the attic and out the roof (which I'm leaning towards) I'll install the stove, install the ceiling support box then get a length of double wall pipe and a length of double wall slider pipe. On the first floor which is a small dinning room i'll switch to triple wall all fuel (dura vent plus) go up though the ceiling using a fire stop collar that gets nailed to the rafters, from there another couple lengths of pipe with an attic insulation shield, pop on the roof flashing cone and terminate with a cap. I'll probably need a full length of pipe plus a one foot section to get the right height on the roof. I'm thinking I wont need to add the chimney support bars (but that could change) all in all from stove collar to chimney cap I should be about 22 to 24 feet. The stove should arrive at the dealers shop in three weeks. I have off thanksgiving week so I have a little project on my hands. I cant wait!! Also I will start a thread that will be pic heavy.


----------



## Rossco

Rich2343 said:


> I have 12' of 2 wall chimney wondering if  another 3' would make my Princess burn hotter and more efficient .?



Cannot answer that fella (Some here could) All I can do is compare. I have::

DWP : 3' - 45 - 12" - 45 - 2' Thimble

EXCEL : 18' Straight up (I think it's 18')

Good luck Kenny


----------



## becasunshine

Last night was the first firing of our new BK Princess.   <:3~


----------



## HotCoals

becasunshine said:


> Last night was the first firing of our new BK Princess.   <:3~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 141812



You likey?


----------



## becasunshine

HotCoals said:


> You likey?



Why yes I do!  But our hardwired, SUPER-LOUD, hyper-vigilant SMOKE ALARMS were not fond of the burn off period.  When the owner's manual suggests
that you open a window, THEY REALLY MEAN IT.  ALSO, TURN ON AN EXHAUST FAN.  OR FIVE.  I had to disconnect every alarm even though I had all the windows opened, the doors opened, and every fan I own positioned or turned on to exhaust the house.  OMG.

But perhaps not everyone's fire alarms have the same degree of neurosis that our fire alarms have.  I did take the one that's almost directly over the stove down.  I can't see much good coming out of having that particular neurotic fire alarm hanging right over the stove- although if I am wrong, I welcome instruction.  There are six other fire alarms throughout the house, including alarms in each bedroom and in the hallway. 

I forgive my neurotic fire alarms.  They mean well.  They do their jobs remarkably well and I appreciate that.  In fact I rely on it.


----------



## Poindexter

+1 on fire alarms. I had my Ashford installed in May.  I could smell chemical burning the first two burns, my wife smelled chemical still on the third.  For the fourth, with the wife not home I filled it up with spruce (all I had dry at the time) ran it on three with the cat engaged till it was 80% gone, then filled it again and ran that on three all the way down to out. 

All of those with the windows open in summer.  Everything was golden until the time in late September I filled it to the rim with birch and let it rip.  I couldn't smell anything, my wife couldn't smell anything, but the smoke alarms sure did.  I suspect next time I get it hotter than it ever has been before it might happen again.

EDIT: Somebody on here had the presence of mind to run his new Ashford 30 in the driveway with 8 feet of pipe on it before he ever brought it in the house.  Brilliant idea.  Props to you whoever you are.


----------



## BrotherBart

Some people here don't just do that with Blaze Kings.


----------



## Rossco

BrotherBart said:


> Some people here don't just do that with Blaze Kings.
> 
> View attachment 141826



Ah so that explains 'Global Warming'


----------



## Poindexter

I had a strong hunch aansorge was correct last night based on my observed stack temps, but was pleasantly surprised when I postponed a different chore to brush my chimney tonight.

A few items: 

One, I measured my stack again while I had it open.  My stack is 12' 6" total, from the top of the stove collar to the rain cap above the roof.  Straight shot, no elbows, less than a foot over the minimum height of 3' above roof height within 10 horizontal feet of where the stack pierces the roof.  

Two, I do run my Ashford 30 for at least an hour with the thermostat at 3 twice daily when it is running constantly.

Three, I don't turn my thermostat down in tiny increments every ten minutes or so.  Once it has been running on three for an hour or so I chop it to 2 (if I am home), and then chop it again 10-15 minutes later to 1.5 or 1.0 ish depending on how I feel.  When my wife gets up on weekdays she just turns it from 3 straight down to 1 and gets on with her morning.

Four, I last cleaned the flue in late August when the forecast called for our first hard frost.  I have run my Ashford 30 probably 42 of the last 49 days.  

Five,I have burnt somewhere between two or three face cords of 16" splits.  I know I have carried one cord into the rack in the garage and the rack is still half full tonight.  But I talked to my son who came home from college for a weekend in September and sure enough he filled the garage rack from "about half full" to full.  This explains why my wife burnt less wood than I had expected while I was away at moose camp.

Six, when I make a stack of green wood with no criss-crossed pieces 16 inches thick, 24 feet long and 56 inches high I know once it is seasoned it will be one cord, 16 inches x 24 feet x 48 inches.  At my house that is one cord, about 95 cf of wood, a forester's cord.  2.5 face cords of that is 79 cubic feet of seasoned wood.  

I am gonna call it 85cf of seasoned birch and spruce since I last brushed the chimney, one engineers cord.  I got about two tablespoons of brown powder out of the stack with a very few shiny black specks in it.


----------



## Highbeam

A face cord, a foresters cord, an engineers cord, a bananna cord but not one real cord in the bunch.


----------



## becasunshine

I have to say, the smell wasn't that bad.  I followed the owner's manual instructions for the first fire to the letter, running the stove on "high" for the specified amount of time.  I had gotten through the get it lighted part, let the initial light load of wood catch completely with every piece burning and a good beginning to a bed of embers in the bottom of the stove part, load it up full part, and had it burning on high until the thermometer reached high noon in the active range.  Then I engaged the cat.  AND THEN MY SMOKE ALARMS LOST THEIR MINDS. 

So, the stove was nice and hot by that point, and my first response to the smoke alarms was to attempt to draw the smoke out of the house and replace the volume of air.  I'm pretty sure I did that with all the windows open and every fan at my disposal on "exhaust."  Maybe I blasted all of that smell right out of the house. 

When I finally closed the house back up, I didn't notice a chemical smell, and I didn't notice one this morning or today either.  The stove was still radiating a good amount of warmth as of this evening.  I did not fire it up tonight- there is no need. 

I am amazed and pleased with the amount of heat this stove puts out, and with the efficiency with which it burns.  There were a few chunks of embers in the box late this evening- still burning- but most of the wood was completely incinerated to a fine white ash.  There isn't much of anything at all left in the fire box.

It was really fun watching the combustion gases re-ignite and burn off last night.  That was amazing.


----------



## Rossco

Never had a smoke alarm go off during break in. Never had the bad smell effect upstairs either. Maybe I got lucky. 

What I do know Is I had smoke coming off the stove right between the flue and cat probe. I also had to break in 3 pieces of stove pipe. 

Maybe I got lucky!


----------



## becasunshine

Rossco said:


> Never had a smoke alarm go off during break in. Never had the bad smell effect upstairs either. Maybe I got lucky.
> 
> What I do know Is I had smoke coming off the stove right between the flue and cat probe. I also had to break in 3 pieces of stove pipe.
> 
> Maybe I got lucky!


 
Rossco, I saw smoke coming off of the stove at the cat probe as well!  I looked for smoke coming out of somewhere because the smoke alarms were crazy over it.  There was a little smoke, barely visible, coming out from around the cat probe.  It subsided after a bit.


----------



## Rossco

becasunshine said:


> Rossco, I saw smoke coming off of the stove at the cat probe as well!  I looked for smoke coming out of somewhere because the smoke alarms were crazy over it.  There was a little smoke, barely visible, coming out from around the cat probe.  It subsided after a bit.


 
Yeah. The more I read the more am  'Maybe my alarms are defective' but I managed to get them talking durning a negative reload the other day. I have a sprinkler install in the basement so am  confident of a total extinguish Scenario if required.  

When I broke the stove in we had a minor storm, maybe I had positive pressure in the bowels of the house, all windows open, basement door open. 

I still smell the stove now and then, great, it's pushing the heat & smell upstairs.


----------



## Ricky8443

Starting to get comfortable with the re-loading, setting of t-stat, and walking away from the stove. Nerves were shot for the first few days but now I'm getting addicted to the warm and cozy house. And the smell is gone (best part).  A far cry from the cold drafty winter we endured last year in our house. 

I've been getting about 9 hour burn times on low with seasoned maple wood that is inefficiently and loosely placed into the firebox (haven't packed it yet). Question: Can I expect 20 hours burn time if packed with oak and on low for princess insert? Any color is appreciated, thanks.


----------



## craigbaill

Hmmmm good info on the break in . Im doing mine Wednesday night if the inspectors approve.
EVERY window door and window will be open and fans on!


----------



## Highbeam

Ricky8443 said:


> Question: Can I expect 20 hours burn time if packed with oak and on low for princess insert?


 
Blaze king rates this insert to run on low for 27 hours. There ratings have been spot on for the other models.

I didn't think the break in smoke was bad at all. Maybe the paint on single wall pipe but the stove was not a problem.


----------



## becasunshine

Rossco said:


> Yeah. The more I read the more am  'Maybe my alarms are defective' but I managed to get them talking durning a negative reload the other day. I have a sprinkler install in the basement so am  confident of a total extinguish Scenario if required.
> 
> When I broke the stove in we had a minor storm, maybe I had positive pressure in the bowels of the house, all windows open, basement door open.
> 
> I still smell the stove now and then, great, it's pushing the heat & smell upstairs.



Rossco, we didn't have this house built, but the husband of the couple who had this house built is a retired builder himself.  The contractor who built the house is local and noted for solid quality work and ATTENTION TO DETAIL.  Between the two of them there is a lot of meat and potatoes in this house.  Not so much bling- the house is pretty, no problem, the materials are very nice and the finishes are nice, but we aren't loaded up with granite countertops, multi jet walk in showers, soaring two story rooms and entries, trey ceilings, etc.  What we do have are good windows, a well thought out HVAC plant, lots of lights in the right places, energy efficient windows and doors, maintenance free exterior finishes, a 40 year roof, AND GOOD FIRE ALARMS.  They are hardwired into the house and to each other.  You set one of them off, they ALL go off, and they go off until you satisfy each one of them that the threat has been mitigated.  We have to be careful about COOKING even though there isn't a fire alarm in the kitchen proper.

I probably could have solved my own issue if I'd simply disconnected the fire alarm that happens to be almost directly over the stove.  I'm sure I'd replaced the entire volume of air in the house in short order.  I believe the system was reacting to that one alarm right over the stove, and that alarm was reacting to the burn off.

I had a lot of moving parts at that moment and I persisted in trying to get the house aired out- solve the big problem- over addressing that one fire alarm.  I've reinstalled all of the fire alarms except for the one right over the stove.  I may experiment with putting that one back up tonight when I relight the stove, to see if it can be done without all heck breaking loose.


----------



## tarzan

got to say our break in fire experience with the Princess stove was similar to highbeams. My wife said "there's that new stove smell" Then a couple minutes later she commented that the smell was not that bad and about gone.

We were expecting a lot worse do to our first fire experience in our old stove. It was pretty awful and you could still get a whiff of it up to a month later if running it hot.


----------



## Ricky8443

My break-in burns smelled bad for two days, of which a flashlight created an obvious beam of light throughout my house from the smoke. Very unpleasant and I had a pounding headache the next day. But completely gone after 3 burns.


----------



## Parallax

I wold definitely put the smoke alarms back in place after the burn off is done. That includes the one over the stove. Make sure you have carbon monoxide detectors too. The stove should not be venting smoke into the house. Even an occasional puff of smoke isn't good for anyone and enough to set off a smoke alarm would be a huge problem. 

Nice looking stove. Really looks nice on that pad against that yellow wall. This is the first time I've found a Princess attractive. It really works in that spot.


----------



## becasunshine

Parallax said:


> I wold definitely put the smoke alarms back in place after the burn off is done. That includes the one over the stove. Make sure you have carbon monoxide detectors too. The stove should not be venting smoke into the house. Even an occasional puff of smoke isn't good for anyone and enough to set off a smoke alarm would be a huge problem.
> 
> Nice looking stove. Really looks nice on that pad against that yellow wall. This is the first time I've found a Princess attractive. It really works in that spot.



Thank you!  We are more pleased with the way it looks than we thought we'd be.  We realize that the older school BK models don't have the bling that the newer stoves have.  We considered an Ashford but went with the Princess; we got more stove for less money.    "Right sizing" our pellet stove in town taught me that to a certain point, I'd rather have the capacity and not need it than want the capacity and not have it.  We had to do quite a lot of work sealing up our ~1420 sq. ft. 50 year old bungalow in town so that our pellet stove, which is rated for 2000 sq. ft., could keep up.  (We have brick and block construction with plaster lathe walls and no wall insulation.  We can't blow wall insulation into the walls efficiently because of the way that the brick exterior is anchored to the block, and because of the way that the lathe for the plaster is anchored to the block on the interior side.  Therefore we insulated the attic and had a big old time with caulk and spray foam, sealing stuff up.)

We even considered a BK King for this location (we get wind off of the water in the winter that will freeze your soul) but that did seem like too much stove.  This house is new construction, well-built, well-insulated and pretty tight.  That being said, we added UL listed outlet and switch insulators behind all the face plates here- and then, AND THEN- I happened to be standing in a room at the back of the house on one of those very windy, very cold winter days.  I thought I felt air movement but I couldn't figure out from where.  The windows are good and we'd insulated the outlets and switches.  ???  I put my hand in front of an outlet on an exterior wall.  _*The wind was pushing in and through the prong slots.*_  So now we have child proof protective caps in all of the outlets that aren't in use full time.  It's amazing that we can actually notice a difference. 

Bottom line, I think the Princess has enough capacity.  The King would have probably run us out of here. 

I also added a couple of pictures taken down by the water last winter.  Like everyone, we had one heck of a winter here.  We were always planning to put a wood stove here before we retired, but we figured that we had some time.  Last winter we were here one very cold weekend, and we knew we'd be back the next weekend for a local event.  We set the programmable thermostat to bring the heat up before we arrived on Friday night.  We arrived around 8pm Friday night, expecting a nice toasty warm house.  Instead we found that the interior of the house was 33'F with all of the furniture, walls and floors ice cold.  The HVAC system had frozen up earlier in the week- the drain from the condenser on the gas furnace had frozen solid where it exits the crawl space.  If we'd not come back on that weekend we might have lost pipes. 

With help from the builder (he lives right across the street) we diagnosed the problem and got the drain unfrozen.  We got the furnace running but it took a full 24 hours to bring the house up to 65'F.  (It didn't help that it was still way below freezing outside, with snow on the ground and wind off the water.)  So, our plans to install a wood stove were moved up to that spring.   

All of the smoke alarms here are re-installed and have been since the night of the first burn.  If it gets cool enough to light the stove tonight, I'll try it with the smoke alarm nearest to it installed as well.  I'd prefer it to be installed.  We also have a plug in CO detector with a battery back up in the hallway, ahead of the bedrooms.

Here's a picture showing more context with the stove's position in the house.  I'm standing in the living room with the camera.  The 45' elbows at the top of the stack are the only bends in the path.  The installers had to zag around an attic/roof truss.  It is sure comfortable in the living areas of the house with the stove running. The rooms on this end of the house are all open to each other with the exception of the laundry room, which has a standard doorway off of the kitchen.  We leave that door opened all the time.  I didn't notice a problem with the laundry room being cooler the other night.  The bedrooms, which are down the hallway you see beside the stove, stay a few degrees cooler.  We prefer that anyway.


----------



## Parallax

Really nice. For your home, either the Princess or Ashford (with or without the enamel) would have looked great. You've got such a nice, simple but traditional looking place, it would have been hard to go wrong. That Virginia coast line is pretty. 

Did you say you went with the Princess because it has more heating capacity than the Ashford? I thought they were pretty comparable.


----------



## Highbeam

becasunshine said:


> Here's a picture showing more context with the stove's position in the house.


 
So it looks like the wall behind the stove has the HVAC returns. Did they put in a high/low return switchable for heating or cooling?


----------



## becasunshine

Highbeam said:


> So it looks like the wall behind the stove has the HVAC returns. Did they put in a high/low return switchable for heating or cooling?



Yes.  We took a used filter and covered both sides of it to make a blank for the return that is not being used.  We also have two returns in our bedroom, and we made a blank for one of those returns as well.  We could use the upper return to distribute heat around the house, theoretically, but our experience with trying to move pellet stove heat in that manner in town was less than satisfactory.  There's a reason why a furnace heats air up to a gazillion degrees before forcing it through duct work. The ambient air arising from a pellet stove or even from a wood stove probably won't have enough btu's to survive the trip through duct work in the unheated portions of the structure.

That being said, I did use the HVAC fan on the "circulate" timer the other night just to move the air around the house a little bit.  I turned it off before bedtime because I didn't want cooler air moving around in the bedroom overnight.


----------



## Dieselhead

Pancakes


----------



## BrotherBart

Dieselhead said:


> Pancakes


----------



## becasunshine

Parallax said:


> Really nice. For your home, either the Princess or Ashford (with or without the enamel) would have looked great. You've got such a nice, simple but traditional looking place, it would have been hard to go wrong. That Virginia coast line is pretty.
> 
> Did you say you went with the Princess because it has more heating capacity than the Ashford? I thought they were pretty comparable.



I think that the Princess and the Ashford 30 are pretty comparable. I'd have to go look at the specs.  BRB.

Yes, the Princess has a slightly higher capacity than the Ashford 30- it heats a larger square footage, it puts out more btu's, has a slightly larger firebox, and has a higher efficiency than the Ashford 30.  The Ashford 30 beats the Princess in terms of EPA particle emissions standards, so if you are in a place where thermal inversion layers are common and localized particulate air pollution are closely monitored, an Ashford could potentially help you in that area.  If you are trying to proactively meet the upcoming EPA standards (even though we hear that the EPA doesn't plan to make those standards retroactive) then the Ashford works for you as well.  We are in the opposite situation in terms of thermal inversion.  It can't get much flatter than flat sea level, and the wind in the winter is remarkable.  Stagnant air is not a problem here.

I do think the Ashford is a prettier stove.  I especially like the enamel finish.  It is gorgeous and it would look nice in our setting in either brown or blue.  Heck, for that matter, I loved the Ashford in satin black.  I did seriously consider it.

The satin black Ashford 30 would have been about $575 more than the Princess Parlor.  The brown or blue enamel Ashford would have been $1214 more than we paid for the Princess Parlor.  We talked about it seriously- we really, really liked the Ashford design.  Installation costs would be the same, and we don't buy wood stoves every year.  We wanted to be happy with our purchase.  In the end, I could not justify paying more money for less stove, particularly when I know the heating challenges here.  I would have kicked myself mightily if we'd paid the extra installation costs to have this (especially accommodating) stove shop come over the mountain and through the woods way out to rural coastal Virginia to install a Blaze King, because we really wanted a Blaze King, but when all was said and done I went with style over function and we didn't have *quite enough stove.*  The guys who own the stove shop felt like the Ashford 30 would be plenty of stove for our application, but per above, our pellet stove experience schooled me about having a little more capacity than you think you'll need.

Thank you for the compliments about the house.  It is truly a dream come true for us.  I grew up with family who had simple rustic cabins on this river.  I spent many happy times in this area.  My husband and I met at that time in my life, and he grew to love this place as well.  Time moves on, circumstances change, and we lost our connection to this river for many years.  In the meantime, real estate prices escalated rapidly, especially anywhere near the water, and we couldn't see a way that we'd ever get back here.

We downsized in 2006 when our kids moved out to a small empty nest bungalow in town.  The bungalow was a fixer upper and we got it at a very good price, considering how hot the real estate market was still running at the time.

As real estate prices plummeted after the bubble burst, we decided to try to find the place to which we hoped to retire while real estate was on sale.  It took a while; we had to decide what we wanted and most importantly where it should be.  We considered various small towns up and down the eastern seaboard.  We were camping at a nearby state park, sitting on the porch of the visitors center looking out over a wild flower meadow and the river, when I looked at my husband and said, "What's the matter with us?  Why are we looking so far away?  Why not here? We love this place!"  We started looking up and down both sides of this river.  It took us a little over a year to find this place.  It has what we need, what we want, and because the builder got stuck with the house when the bubble burst, the price was within our modest budget.  We aren't water front but we have a nice view.  The neighborhood has a little beach, a pier and a boat ramp.

We furnished this house almost entirely from Craigslist, thrift stores and consignment shops.  What few things we couldn't find second hand (or wanted to purchase new- bed sheets, towels, etc.) we found at big box discount stores. Believe it or not, the two plaid chairs you see in the picture came from two different second hand sources- one from Craigslist and one from a consignment store.  They are the exact same fabric- a wing chair and a skirted side chair.  I couldn't believe it.  

Anyway, thank you for the compliments!


----------



## Highbeam

becasunshine said:


> The Ashford 30 beats the Princess in terms of EPA particle emissions standards, so if you are in a place where thermal inversion layers are common and localized particulate air pollution are closely monitored, an Ashford could potentially help you in that area.


 
I live in a place such as this where the thermal inversions occasionaly trigger burn bans. The emissions of my EPA stove have nothing to do with it, lowering them further won't prevent the bans or allow me to burn legally during them. It's like two sports cars and one can do 115 and the other 120, both are very fast and all beat the guy on the moped doing 25 (aka the fireplace).


----------



## becasunshine

Highbeam said:


> I live in a place such as this where the thermal inversions occasionaly trigger burn bans. The emissions of my EPA stove have nothing to do with it, lowering them further won't prevent the bans or allow me to burn legally during them. It's like two sports cars and one can do 115 and the other 120, both are very fast and all beat the guy on the moped doing 25 (aka the fireplace).



Yeah, true that, Highbeam.  My logic there was flawed.  The Ashford's lower emission standards won't help you in terms of being able to burn your stove or avoid burn bans until *everybody* in your area has wood burning devices that lower the entire atmospheric particulate load.  I guess it helps Blaze King to have an attractive option that meets/exceeds the proposed EPA emissions standards out on the market proactively.

If we lived in an area where this was likely to be an issue, we would have more strongly considered the Ashford 30 in order to do our part to meet the upcoming emissions standards.  We would have done our part to allow everyone to continue to heat with alternative and renewable resources.  Where we are right now, the difference in emissions between the Ashford 30 and the Princess isn't likely to impact anything, but the additional heating capacity of the Princess is likely to help us.

As I type this winds are coming off the water at around 20 mph.


----------



## Parallax

You were wise to be patient and wait for something you could afford. My wife and I were also very patient and bought at the right time. As a result we were able to find our dream home at a price that didn't break the bank. We've got it paid off now. Of course there are bigger and nicer homes but this one is more than enough for us. What makes it special is, like yours, the setting. In our case, it's being backed up against miles of woods. 

Since the Princes looks so nice in your place, there really was no need to go with the Ashford. I'm not sure it would have looked any better. The style of the Princess fits perfectly. The Ashford, as I said, would have worked too but I'm not sure it would have worked better. The same cannot be said for our house. We went with the enamel Ashford because, given the style of our home (not full out neo-Craftsman but significant Craftsman elements), it's the only Blaze King that would have looked good (at least to us).


----------



## becasunshine

Parallax said:


> You were wise to be patient and wait for something you could afford. My wife and I were also very patient and bought at the right time. As a result we were able to find our dream home at a price that didn't break the bank. We've got it paid off now. Of course there are bigger and nicer homes but this one is more than enough for us. What makes it special is, like yours, the setting. In our case, it's being backed up against miles of woods.
> 
> Since the Princes looks so nice in your place, there really was no need to go with the Ashford. I'm not sure it would have looked any better. The style of the Princess fits perfectly. The Ashford, as I said, would have worked too but I'm not sure it would have worked better. The same cannot be said for our house. We went with the enamel Ashford because, given the style of our home (not full out neo-Craftsman but significant Craftsman elements), it's the only Blaze King that would have looked good (at least to us).



Parallax, Bellingham is GORGEOUS.  I was fortunate enough to do some contract work in both Oregon and Washington several years ago.  I left a chunk of soul up there.  It was, confusing...  I am deeply tied to this place, my home, with long and strong roots.  I can trace my ancestry in Virginia and North Carolina back to the beginnings of this nation.  I have a multiple great grandmother who was born right across the river from where I am sitting now.  And yet, I fell deeply in love with the Pacific Northwest. 

It is one of the most gorgeous and, in spots, untamed places I've ever been, and I was enthralled, and so homesick at times that I didn't know what to do with myself.  I was there during the summer, which in this part of the country will bake your bones.  It never gets warm enough to bake your bones in the Pacific Northwest.  I went out to the coast, expecting, I don't know- expecting to go to the beach?  And I found the beach.  It was like going to the beach here in December rather than in July.  And as I stood there, feeling disoriented and so far away from home, so very far away from home, a cloud came rolling over the coastal mountain ridge and right down onto the beach.  I don't mean fog- I mean an actual cloud.  All the way to the sand.  One second I was watching the only other person on the beach, a fisherman who was surf-casting, dressed head to toe in rain gear that would have suffocated him on the beach at home in July.  The next second he was GONE.  *poof!* Just like that, swallowed by a cloud. 

And the cloud rolled right out over the surf.

I wanted to cry from homesickness and the absolute stunning beauty of it.

It was so poignantly gorgeous that, after those contracts ended, I came home, scooped up my husband and my boys and brought them out for a 10 day loop around southwestern Washington and northwestern Oregon.  Mt. Hood/Columbia River Gorge, Portland, Cannon Beach/Seaside, Mt. Rainier, and of course Seattle and Portland. 

We even took the dinner train that operates out of a spot just east of Seattle- I think it leaves out of a station near Bellingham.  

And if you have a craftsman influenced house in Bellingham with an Ashford 30 in brown enamel in it, well, color me OFFICIALLY JEALOUS.

There, Brother Bart, I brought this response RIGHT BACK AROUND TO BLAZE KING WOOD STOVES so I AM IN COMPLIANCE.


----------



## Poindexter

I am in a "non-attainment area" for EPA air quality.  We do get thermal inversions in the winter and occasional burn bans during the winter.  55 below and coughing on car and woodstove exhaust the moment you open the front door is no fun at all.

0.97 grams per hour out of the Ashford 30 per the EPA test.  I have done what I can do for capital expense, and I am feeding it really dry wood.  I like breathing clean air and I don't mind doing what I can to contribute to having it around.


----------



## Parallax

becasunshine said:


> Parallax, Bellingham is GORGEOUS.  I was fortunate enough to do some contract work in both Oregon and Washington several years ago.  I left a chunk of soul up there.  It was, confusing...  I am deeply tied to this place, my home, with long and strong roots.  I can trace my ancestry in Virginia and North Carolina back to the beginnings of this nation.  I have a multiple great grandmother who was born right across the river from where I am sitting now.  And yet, I fell deeply in love with the Pacific Northwest.
> 
> It is one of the most gorgeous and, in spots, untamed places I've ever been, and I was enthralled, and so homesick at times that I didn't know what to do with myself.  I was there during the summer, which in this part of the country will bake your bones.  It never gets warm enough to bake your bones in the Pacific Northwest.  I went out to the coast, expecting, I don't know- expecting to go to the beach?  And I found the beach.  It was like going to the beach here in December rather than in July.  And as I stood there, feeling disoriented and so far away from home, so very far away from home, a cloud came rolling over the coastal mountain ridge and right down onto the beach.  I don't mean fog- I mean an actual cloud.  All the way to the sand.  One second I was watching the only other person on the beach, a fisherman who was surf-casting, dressed head to toe in rain gear that would have suffocated him on the beach at home in July.  The next second he was GONE.  *poof!* Just like that, swallowed by a cloud.
> 
> And the cloud rolled right out over the surf.
> 
> I wanted to cry from homesickness and the absolute stunning beauty of it.
> 
> It was so poignantly gorgeous that, after those contracts ended, I came home, scooped up my husband and my boys and brought them out for a 10 day loop around southwestern Washington and northwestern Oregon.  Mt. Hood/Columbia River Gorge, Portland, Cannon Beach/Seaside, Mt. Rainier, and of course Seattle and Portland.
> 
> We even took the dinner train that operates out of a spot just east of Seattle- I think it leaves out of a station near Bellingham.
> 
> And if you have a craftsman influenced house in Bellingham with an Ashford 30 in brown enamel in it, well, color me OFFICIALLY JEALOUS.
> 
> There, Brother Bart, I brought this response RIGHT BACK AROUND TO BLAZE KING WOOD STOVES so I AM IN COMPLIANCE.


I thank you Sister Sunshine. My wife and I feel lucky to be here. It's not for everyone. As I type this, it's raining. I can hear it on our skylights. Today was a typical soggy day. But it is very green and lush. 

Bellingham in Summer is about as close as one can come to heaven on earth. But people don't flock here because most can't take the rain 9 or sometimes 10 months of the year. People move in and then a couple of years later move out. If you love rain and seclusion (and don't get easily depressed in dreary weather), this is a great town. Some who hate rain wind up in Seattle because the big cities have many diversions.


----------



## becasunshine

Parallax said:


> I thank you Sister Sunshine. My wife and I feel lucky to be here. It's not for everyone. As I type this, it's raining. I can hear it on our skylights. Today was a typical soggy day. But it is very green and lush.
> 
> Bellingham in Summer is about as close as one can come to heaven on earth. But people don't flock here because most can't take the rain 9 or sometimes 10 months of the year. People move in and then a couple of years later move out. If you love rain and seclusion (and don't get easily depressed in dreary weather), this is a great town. Some who hate rain wind up in Seattle because the big cities have many diversions.



I found that I didn't really mind the rain so much, because there were  a fair number of days when the cloud cover was high and the day was bright enough.  When it's sunny, though- there's nothing like it.  I told my guys that they must have been born under lucky stars, because both Rainier and Hood were out in all their glory, and completely visible, for the entire 10 days we were there.


----------



## Seanm

becasunshine said:


> I found that I didn't really mind the rain so much, because there were  a fair number of days when the cloud cover was high and the day was bright enough.  When it's sunny, though- there's nothing like it.  I told my guys that they must have been born under lucky stars, because both Rainier and Hood were out in all their glory, and completely visible, for the entire 10 days we were there.


Rainier is a deadly but beautiful mountain. I can say that my experience climbing liberty ridge on the north face many years ago was one of the pinnacles of my climbing career and was full of fond memories. Washington state has some amazing attributes. The people are friendly and the ocean and mountains are amazing!


----------



## tarzan

Ok, I got another question. 

Loading the Princess around half full for a 12 hour or so fire I had no trouble getting the stove settled in for a good, low shoulder season burn that ranged between 375f and 450f on my thermometer just in front of the cat thermometer.

My problem is, if I load the stove full for a 24 hour burn, then turn the thermo down, slow in steps or all at once, doesn't matter. The temps will gradually creep up to 600f and stay there for hours before settling in to the 425f or so that I want.

My question is, is my cat just new and over active? In such case it will settle down in time, or is this typically what I can expect for the first few hours of a full load?

Not really a huge problem but them first few hours of 600f heats this place up to around 80f so I may just need to go back to half loads for the shoulder season.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> Ok, I got another question.
> 
> Loading the Princess around half full for a 12 hour or so fire I had no trouble getting the stove settled in for a good, low shoulder season burn that ranged between 375f and 450f on my thermometer just in front of the cat thermometer.
> 
> My problem is, if I load the stove full for a 24 hour burn, then turn the thermo down, slow in steps or all at once, doesn't matter. The temps will gradually creep up to 600f and stay there for hours before settling in to the 425f or so that I want.
> 
> My question is, is my cat just new and over active? In such case it will settle down in time, or is this typically what I can expect for the first few hours of a full load?
> 
> Not really a huge problem but them first few hours of 600f heats this place up to around 80f so I may just need to go back to half loads for the shoulder season.



Yeah.  What he said, although I didn't pay as much attention to the stove top temps, I find that the heat just ROLLS off of this stove in the process of getting the whole load of wood lit.  Last night had windows on both sides of the house opened and a literal Nor'easter blowing through it just to stay in here.  The dog couldn't hack it at all.  He spent the evening on the front porch. 

How do we keep this enthusiastic Princess beastie under control?


----------



## Highbeam

becasunshine said:


> How do we keep this enthusiastic Princess beastie under control?


 
Assuming that your door gaskets are working properly and that your draft is within the limits for this stove.

The cat will burn whatever smoke comes its way and create heat efficiently so to keep stove temps down you need to limit the smoke production. Load your fuel tightly and use larger pieces. This slows down combustion by limiting the amount of wood surface area exposed to the firebox.

The high early heat is usually caused by overcharring, that is getting the whole load ripping hot beofre reducing the air. When you do that, the whole load will be smoldering all at one time and the huge smoke load will feed the cat lots of fuel even though the air setting is low. On the other hand you want to char the wood enough that the flue temps are high enough to support cat activity.

Give those two a try. Tighter loads with bigger chunks, and only enough char to get the cat active.


----------



## becasunshine

Highbeam said:


> Assuming that your door gaskets are working properly and that your draft is within the limits for this stove.
> 
> The cat will burn whatever smoke comes its way and create heat efficiently so to keep stove temps down you need to limit the smoke production. Load your fuel tightly and use larger pieces. This slows down combustion by limiting the amount of wood surface area exposed to the firebox.
> 
> The high early heat is usually caused by overcharring, that is getting the whole load ripping hot beofre reducing the air. When you do that, the whole load will be smoldering all at one time and the huge smoke load will feed the cat lots of fuel even though the air setting is low. On the other hand you want to char the wood enough that the flue temps are high enough to support cat activity.
> 
> Give those two a try. Tighter loads with bigger chunks, and only enough char to get the cat active.



Perfect! 

You accurately described exactly what I was doing.  I was following the owner's manual to the letter.  In my attempt to get the entire load "lit," I was letting it rip until everything was burning.  Even after turning it down the heat was just rolling off of the stove.

I called and talked to the stove shop owner yesterday.  We are blessed with really knowledgeable owners who are willing to help.  He pointed out that our wood was notably dry and that we could probably cut back a bit on the time intervals we are using during start up.  The manual says to let the stove burn at a higher setting for 20-30 minutes, IIRC, to make sure that the whole load has caught efficiently.  He suggested cutting that time down; we probably don't need to burn at a higher setting for that long.

It's another way of saying what you said.

Thank you!


----------



## tarzan

I actually, adjusted the door after the third fire, used larger splits and engaged the cat at the top of the inactive zone, taking the lag time into consideration. 

Never got even close to building a fire according to the manual (figured out fast that 20 minutes on high and then step down in 10 minute intervals wasn't going to work with my setup.) so, as I mentioned above, I have tried a couple different ways of shutting it down that both lead to the same results.

I'm thinking I have a small problem compounded by very dry wood and a new (slightly over active) cat. being to warm is a much better problem than struggling to stay warm.

BTW becasunshine, most dogs will hang out by the stove. I have a feeling ours is going to help us find drafts this winter just pay attention to where they lie.


----------



## Poindexter

The wife has only been gone about four days, but I have figured out if I get the stove reloaded before the cat drops out of active and get the door closed and get the cat back to engaged before the new wood on top of the hot coals gets ripping too hard I can maintain a gentle 75-80 in the house.

Wife home in six days, not much longer to play with this feature.  I bet Highbeam is right, bigger splits should be smaller burning surface, smaller smoke load into cat, cooler stove.


----------



## tarzan

Poindexter said:


> The wife has only been gone about four days, but I have figured out if I get the stove reloaded before the cat drops out of active and get the door closed and get the cat back to engaged before the new wood on top of the hot coals gets ripping too hard I can maintain a gentle 75-80 in the house.
> 
> Wife home in six days, not much longer to play with this feature.  I bet Highbeam is right, bigger splits should be smaller burning surface, smaller smoke load into cat, cooler stove.



Yell, I think that may be a big part of my problem right now. To mild for 24-7 burning so most of our fires are from cold starts. Probably just charring to much wood getting up to temp. May try getting it up to temp on a small load and then add just before time to engage the cat.


----------



## Dieselhead

Do you guys get the 24 hr burns usually on a hot reload? I can't see getting them off a cold start, it's only shoulder season and I run the stove on 1.5 to keep the house around 70. It's only getting into the low 30's I imagine when it's 10 out the stat will be around 2.5+ to keep it 70. 

I'm loading e/w probably around 50lbs of wood which brings it up to the top of the stove. Dry (4yr top covered) hardwood.


----------



## BKVP

becasunshine said:


> Yeah.  What he said, although I didn't pay as much attention to the stove top temps, I find that the heat just ROLLS off of this stove in the process of getting the whole load of wood lit.  Last night had windows on both sides of the house opened and a literal Nor'easter blowing through it just to stay in here.  The dog couldn't hack it at all.  He spent the evening on the front porch.
> 
> How do we keep this enthusiastic Princess beastie under control?


 
Put in less fuel and the end result will be fewer gases to feed that combustor.  A full load produces lots of gas for the combustor to process.


----------



## tigger

On the princess insert are people measuring stove top temps on the flat spot in front of the cat thermometer? Or on the front of the stove somewhere?


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> Assuming that your door gaskets are working properly and that your draft is within the limits for this stove.
> 
> The cat will burn whatever smoke comes its way and create heat efficiently so to keep stove temps down you need to limit the smoke production. Load your fuel tightly and use larger pieces. This slows down combustion by limiting the amount of wood surface area exposed to the firebox.
> 
> The high early heat is usually caused by overcharring, that is getting the whole load ripping hot beofre reducing the air. When you do that, the whole load will be smoldering all at one time and the huge smoke load will feed the cat lots of fuel even though the air setting is low. On the other hand you want to char the wood enough that the flue temps are high enough to support cat activity.
> 
> Give those two a try. Tighter loads with bigger chunks, and only enough char to get the cat active.



I am going to try this and see what I get collected in my flue over the next 6-8 weeks.  Saving the small splits for deep winter and burning the big ones in shoulder season is counter intuitive at first blush, but thinking it over it ought to work out fine.


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead said:


> Do you guys get the 24 hr burns usually on a hot reload? I can't see getting them off a cold start, it's only shoulder season and I run the stove on 1.5 to keep the house around 70. It's only getting into the low 30's I imagine when it's 10 out the stat will be around 2.5+ to keep it 70.
> 
> I'm loading e/w probably around 50lbs of wood which brings it up to the top of the stove. Dry (4yr top covered) hardwood.



24 hours is pretty much a given anytime I load the stove during the early season.  I run the t-stat at or near the same setting no matter the temp.(1 1/2 to 1 3/4 usually gets it done)  The colder weather the chimney draws more air through the stove making a hotter "fire", I typically us the fans to regulate the house temps.


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead thanks for creating the now annual BK performance thread.


----------



## Dieselhead

Hey no prob bud


----------



## becasunshine

BKVP said:


> Put in less fuel and the end result will be fewer gases to feed that combustor.  A full load produces lots of gas for the combustor to process.



Are you THE Blaze King VP? 

I am **so impressed** with this stove!  It's too easy!  This is a GREAT stove.  I didn't even fire it up last night.  It was still generating enough heat from the fire I had the night before to keep the house warm all day and into the evening.  I've never known of a wood stove that could produce heat for that long- seriously.  The old school stoves were hot when they were hot, and then they were cold.  Once the wood burned up (relatively quickly) the stove cooled down relatively quickly as well. 

I started up the Princess the evening before last, got the fire established, and that was pretty much it for the duration.  Once I got it set up on the low end of the "normal" range I didn't touch it again.  It burned on low for over 24 hours and I didn't have to touch it at all.  That's amazing, it really is.

Thank you for such a wonderful stove!


----------



## rdust

becasunshine said:


> Once I got it set up on the low end of the "normal" range I didn't touch it again.  It burned on low for over 24 hours and I didn't have to touch it at all.  That's amazing, it really is



Starting our 4th season with ours and it still continues to amaze me.  First two seasons I burned a Lopi Endeavor, nice, well made stove but no comparison to the performance I get with the BK.


----------



## BKVP

becasunshine said:


> Are you THE Blaze King VP?
> 
> I am **so impressed** with this stove!  It's too easy!  This is a GREAT stove.  I didn't even fire it up last night.  It was still generating enough heat from the fire I had the night before to keep the house warm all day and into the evening.  I've never known of a wood stove that could produce heat for that long- seriously.  The old school stoves were hot when they were hot, and then they were cold.  Once the wood burned up (relatively quickly) the stove cooled down relatively quickly as well.
> 
> I started up the Princess the evening before last, got the fire established, and that was pretty much it for the duration.  Once I got it set up on the low end of the "normal" range I didn't touch it again.  It burned on low for over 24 hours and I didn't have to touch it at all.  That's amazing, it really is.
> 
> Thank you for such a wonderful stove!


 
Yes, that's what's on my business card anyway.  Thank you for the compliemnts regarding your stove.  I hope you enjoy it for many decades.

Chris


----------



## Rich2343

Chris do you have a dealer in the Pittsburgh area


BKVP said:


> Yes, that's what's on my business card anyway.  Thank you for the compliemnts regarding your stove.  I hope you enjoy it for many decades.


----------



## BKVP

*Pool & Spa Outlet*
160 Galley Road Canonsburg Pennsylvania 
15317 US
Telephone: 724-873-7665

They have two stores, so they may have stock.  Don't hesitate to use our look up option on the website and try other areas as well.

Thank you.


----------



## Rich2343

BKVP said:


> *Pool & Spa Outlet*
> 160 Galley Road Canonsburg Pennsylvania
> 15317 US
> Telephone: 724-873-7665
> 
> They have two stores, so they may have stock.  Don't hesitate to use our look up option on the website and try other areas as well.
> 
> Thank you.


Thank you Chris


----------



## becasunshine

BKVP said:


> Yes, that's what's on my business card anyway.  Thank you for the compliemnts regarding your stove.  I hope you enjoy it for many decades.
> 
> Chris



Chris, my husband is home tonight from a week long business trip.  We never planned for me to do the shakedown cruise with this wood stove by myself but that's what happened.  We had a Nor'easter, temps dropped, we have dry wood, I'M GOING TO USE THIS WOOD STOVE.

Tonight I vacuumed out the fire box (with a certified ash vacuum) and started the stone cold stove from zero with nothing but newspaper, one Super Cedar fire starter broken into four pieces and an average load of wood.

I followed your advice and the advice from our stove shop owner.  I started the whole thing much slower.  I put the load of wood that we'll use overnight tonight in the stove, on top of a bed of crumpled up newspaper.  It's not a huge load of wood and there was plenty of air gaps.  I disengaged the cat, turned the control to "high," lit the Super Cedar and the newspaper, closed the door but didn't latch it, and let it catch.

When the bottom logs were burning well and the cat thermometer was about a third of the way into active, I latched the door and engaged the cat.  I left the burn control on "high" for a few more minutes, until it was obvious that the logs were still lit, then I stepped the control down from "high" to the middle of "normal" over a few minutes time.

Perfect!  We have a pleasant, shoulder season burn that's not running us out of here.

Before we go to bed I'll turn it down one more time, to the lower margin of "normal."  Based on this week's experience with the stove, it will stay lit and that will be plenty of heat.

I told my husband before I started that he wasn't going to believe how easily this stove lights, stays lit, establishes a burn and is easy to control.  The stove made me look really, really good.    It lit up just like that, went right into an active state on the cat, stayed lit, and the burn control is excellent.

We won't have to touch this stove again until sometime tomorrow evening, if then.  Neither of us has ever been around a wood stove that was so easy.  No fiddling, no struggling, no messing with it.  My husband was super impressed.

Incidentally, the HVAC circulating fan trick is working really well with this stove in this house.  Based on our experience with our pellet stove in town, I didn't have high hopes for that.  It's working really well here.  I keep the fan set on "circulate."  It comes on about once every 15 minutes (I haven't timed it) and stays on for about 5 minutes.  It really does seem to move the heat around the house.

Thank you for your help, Chris- this stove is AWESOME.   

P.S. Edited to add:  I DID NOT SET OFF ALL OF THE SMOKE ALARMS TONIGHT EITHER.  So starting it slower is the way to go for us. Could be that we're finished curing the finish, too.    That being said, the smoke alarm that is almost directly over the stove is not engaged- the rest are.  I will put that alarm back up on the ceiling in a few minutes to make sure it won't lose its mind on us before we go to bed.

One of our neighbors stopped by yesterday and commiserated over the smoke alarm issue.  He recommended replacing the smoke alarm over the stove with a heat alarm.  He told me what to look up on Amazon.  Sure enough, the company makes a heat detector that will replace the smoke detector and plug right into the existing system.  I monitored the temperature of the ceiling at that site to make sure that it doesn't get hot enough up there, even during start up, to trigger the heat alarm.  Looks like that will work, so I plan to order that heat alarm from Amazon.


----------



## Highbeam

What do you mean by, "a third of the way into active"? I understood that just as soon as the inactive/active line is crossed it is time to engage.


----------



## becasunshine

Highbeam said:


> What do you mean by, "a third of the way into active"? I understood that just as soon as the inactive/active line is crossed it is time to engage.



Huh.  Really?  I thought you had to wait until everything was all lit up.  In lieu of waiting for all of the logs to catch, I waited until the cat thermometer was about a third of the way up before engaging the cat- but not all of the wood was charred at that point. 

I hope I didn't injure anything by waiting.  The stove didn't do anything weird.  (Please don't ask me to define what "weird" might be.  The stove didn't catch the house on fire or scare the dog or make waffles or anything.)

I'm still learning; be gentle with me.


----------



## HotCoals

becasunshine said:


> Huh.  Really?  I thought you had to wait until everything was all lit up.  In lieu of waiting for all of the logs to catch, I waited until the cat thermometer was about a third of the way up before engaging the cat- but not all of the wood was charred at that point.
> 
> I hope I didn't injure anything by waiting.  The stove didn't do anything weird.  (Please don't ask me to define what "weird" might be.  The stove didn't catch the house on fire or scare the dog or make waffles or anything.)
> 
> I'm still learning; be gentle with me.



You did everything fine.
You could close the by-pass sooner if you wanted to as long as you leave the air(t-stat) up till the wood is charred good so that the cat has plenty of food and won't die..lol.

You did good!


----------



## becasunshine

HotCoals said:


> You did everything fine.
> You could close the by-pass sooner if you wanted to as long as you leave the air(t-stat) up till the wood is charred good so that the cat has plenty of food and won't die..lol.
> 
> You did good!



Thank you for the feedback, HotCoals!  It helps- I am learning!


----------



## Rossco

Some good advice from BK users on this site. New and veteran members. 

Just remember: Every set up is different. You will get the ideal burn from your set up once you have established Ambient temps (Draft) wood quality and personal preference. 

I think I have it down to a T then my mixture of wood changes for example and the whole thing changes, leaves me with scratch marks on me sweeeed!!


----------



## Poindexter

I like getting the needle up into active a bit before I engage the cat too.  Maybe half a fingerwidth or so.  Burns a little bit more wood maybe, but over the ten year warranty of the cat I am thinking less than a face cord of "waste" and my cat should always be happy.


----------



## becasunshine

You know, this thread does bring up an interesting question: 

How *do* we train our BK stoves to make waffles?  

(I heated up our previously cooked dinner, corned beef with root vegetables, on the BK top the other night.  Just put it in a large enough pan to prevent boil over, put a lid on it and parked it on top of the stove for a couple of minutes.  Voila, dinner!)


----------



## Poindexter

I am 24 hours in to burning big chunks instead of small splits like Highbeam suggested on the previous page.  

Its looking good for getting "some" heat out of the stove without going crazy making a bunch of heat.  +25dF outdoors tonight, stove was cruising on high with two enormous splits in there, 10x10x10 inch triangles 16" long with a bit extra on the rounded side.  All that was lit was a 10x16" face on each of the two splits, so lower smoke load to the cat, good airflow with the thermostat on three.  Cat probe was running 1/3 to 1/2 up into the active range, indicated stack temp on my second thermometer is pretty close to what I was seeing with the last cord I burnt, so not too terribly worried about creosote.

I did do a hot reload earlier and it went darn smooth.  My chunk in the front (I am loading EW for this) burns away quicker than the chunk in the back.  With a glowing chunk in the back and 2-3 inches of coals in the front and Tsat on 3 I switched to bypass and waited for the smoke to clear out of the firebox.  Crack the door, open the door, put another enormous chunk on the coal bed, close the door.  I stood up to see that the cat was still in the active range, it was, my chunk on the front had burst into flames, I flipped the lever to engaged.  

Done.  Awesome.  The most time consuming step was clearing the smoke out of the firebox to open the door.

Now my biggest problem is guessing how much of the wood for next winter to split big and how much to split small.  The big chunks I have were split three years ago and have been off the ground and under cover ever since.  I think I am am going to leave a fair bit of spruce big and make room for half a cord or so of big birch chunks on the sunny side of my seasoning rack.


----------



## HotCoals

Just so you guys know.
I have seen from a reload ,or especially a cold start the cat temp be halfway and the cat still not active at all.
The cat probe will pick up the stove top temp not just the temp from the end of the probe because the coil is right on the stove top.


----------



## Highbeam

There's a big spread between two 10x10 logs sideways and 20 3x3 splits stacked in there like a log cabin. I suggest that for longer, lower burns, that you load the larger 6x6 splits like a package of hot dogs. You can get ten of them in a princess/30 box pretty easy. Char until the needle is past the active line, engage cat, and then spin the stat to your low setting. 

I don't have much luck with any split that I cant end grab with one hand. 

I too like to let the cat gauge needle get a bit past the active line, there's a little white tick there I shoot for.

The whole reducing the stat in stages thing is questionable. Since we are dealing with a thermostat and not the actual draft damper I know that spinning the stat down to my low setting is not the same as slamming the damper shut on a noncat. Let the stat work.

I shoot for long burns and steady heat so hot reloads are very rare. As long as the cat gauge is above active and climbing you are ready to engage.


----------



## Highbeam

Lots of factors with fuel load and no one right way for all situations. You'll have all winter to see what works best for you. 

What usually strikes New bk burners as strange is that you can and should stuff these stoves tight with fuel. To the roof! and still control the output to low or high. The fuel load is just an amount of potential energy to be used as you wish.


----------



## Highbeam

HotCoals said:


> Just so you guys know.
> I have seen from a reload ,or especially a cold start the cat temp be halfway and the cat still not active at all.
> The cat probe will pick up the stove top temp not just the temp from the end of the probe because the coil is right on the stove top.



That's weird. If the cat temp is active and climbing then your cat is active. You do realize that it doesn't have to glow to be working right? What made you think it was not active?


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> That's weird. If the cat temp is active and climbing then your cat is active. You do realize that it doesn't have to glow to be working right? What made you think it was not active?



If it's climbing at a rate higher then the stove top next to the probe you are right,the cat would be active.

I'm just saying the cat probe will read the stove top temp even if the cat is not in the stove.


----------



## HotCoals

In other words you could load a cold stove fire it off then close it down to soon and the cat may never fire off or it may latter.
That's why I usually wait till maybe the probe is halfway before cutting the air even though I engaged the cat way sooner.
The wood has to be charred good to give off the gas's for the cat to take off and not stall.


----------



## Woody Stover

becasunshine said:


> Are you THE Blaze King VP?


If you look at his avatar, you'll see that he's a pro fisherman. 


becasunshine said:


> In lieu of waiting for all of the logs to catch, I waited until the cat thermometer was about a third of the way up before engaging the cat- but not all of the wood was charred at that point.


That's how I run my cat stoves; Rake the coals forward and get fire in the front of the stove to get the cat and stove up to temp, the light the cat, cut the air and let the burn work its way back through the load. A top-down start with the small kindling stuff in the top/front of the load will get even less wood burning at the beginning (and produce less start-up smoke,) but will put heat in the top of the stove to get the cat up to temp quicker. Less of the load will be gassing and you should be able to run the load at a very low output.


----------



## webby3650

I've never had this issue with my cat. If its says active, or even a little below it, it fires right up every time.


----------



## becasunshine

Beca Sunshine had a catalytic meltdown.

I apologize.

Everyone carry on with their catalytic converters in whatever way works for you.  I'm going to call our experience with lighting and running the stove at a lower setting last night a success and be happy with it. 

Especially since I didn't fire off every smoke alarm in the place in the process.


----------



## aansorge

Don't worry its super simple running these stoves.  Load her up, let the fire get going good, close the bypass, then reduce the air to your normal running point after 10 minutes. 

I ran my other stove last night for fun (The Enerzone in my Sig)  It sure was trickier to get it going good as you need to have the door cracked open, then shut the door handle halfway.  Then all the way. Then reduce the air a little at a time.  Much touchier than the King. Beautiful fire though!


----------



## Highbeam

becasunshine said:


> OK, this whole "cat is active, cat is not active, cat never fired off, thermometer is indicating temperature of stove top, cat may not be active even if the thermometer says it is" thing is confusing.
> 
> I do NOT want to over think this.  One of the selling points of the BK stove is simplicity of operation, less fiddling with it.  You don't have to touch it so much.  After cleaning and loading and tearing down a pellet stove on a regular to daily basis the whole simple wood burner is a relief to me.
> 
> Last night the cat glowed at one point but then the glow subsided. The cat was glowing not long after the whole start up routine, when the stove was probably at its hottest overall (even though I started it a lot slower last night.) Once established, the stove was at a nice, low burn, not running us out of the house.
> 
> As our stove shop owner said, the stove was "cooking" the wood rather than burning it up quickly.  Isn't that part of the reason why we buy Blaze King stoves?  This long, slow, efficient, fuel preserving burn?
> 
> So later, when the cat wasn't visibly glowing, the cat thermometer was still way into the active range and the flames in the upper part of the fire box near the cat would intermittently appear and disappear.  I took this as the cat in operation, burning off the products of combustion in the fire box.
> 
> We went to bed with the stove burning just like this.  When we awoke later this morning, the wood in the stove was almost completely reduced to embers and large chunks, which are still hot.  The stove is still quite warm and radiating.  The cat thermometer is in the inactive range but we don't care.  We do not need any more heat in the house at this moment and we aren't reloading the stove.
> 
> Honestly, I don't want to baby sit the cat.  I want to treat it right, light the stove properly, burn it according to the manual, and go on about my life.  I'll clean the cat when I need to clean the cat and I'll replace it when it's worn out.  Otherwise I just want the stove and the cat to do what they are supposed to do without a lot of fiddling.  Is that unrealistic?
> 
> How on earth, besides the thermometer, are you guys judging whether or not the catalytic converter is active and engaged?  Are you relying solely on whether the cat is glowing or not?  Is that a true indicator of cat activity or absence of cat activity?



That's what I was afraid of. If the cat gauge says it's active, it's active. Don't worry about the glow, that is not an indication of activity. Trust your instruments. You are doing a great job running that stove becasun.

Also understand that we are stove nerds, and really dwell on the details and theories. When you burn a bk you have to make problems because the dang stoves are too boring otherwise.


----------



## webby3650

Highbeam said:


> That's what I was afraid of. If the cat gauge says it's active, it's active. Don't worry about the glow, that is not an indication of activity. Trust your instruments. You are doing a great job running that stove becasun.
> 
> Also understand that we are stove nerds, and really dwell on the details and theories. When you burn a bk you have to make problems because the dang stoves are too boring otherwise.


Well said.
The thermometer is a probe, it measures the core temperure of the cat. If its hot enough to say "active", then it's hot enough to do its job. Hot is hot, no matter what's heating it up.


----------



## becasunshine

"Trust your instruments. You are doing a great job running that stove becasun."

Thank you.  Thank you thank you thank you a million times.

Nobody intended to light me off, I know that.  When all I have are the instruments, the instruction manual and very little experience, I want to rely on the instruments.  If for some reason I begin to doubt the instruments and I don't have experience to fall back on, bedlam ensues.  See:  Beca Sunshine's Catalytic Melt Down, above.  

Also you really don't want to do that to our stove shop owner.  The man doesn't need me melting into a neurotic puddle.  I've already called him with a half dozen questions about a stove and an installation that are operating *perfectly.*  DO NOT RUIN THIS MAN'S LIFE BY PUTTING DOUBT IN MY MIND.  

"Also understand that we are stove nerds, and really dwell on the details and theories. When you burn a bk you have to make problems because the dang stoves are too boring otherwise."

I completely understand this.  Not only do I understand it, I know I do it myself sometimes.  Oh, you should see me get "on" about something that engages me.    (Pity Mr. Sunshine.  Light a candle to the God of Husbands on his behalf.)


----------



## HotCoals

Guess I'm getting to deep into it but she did fine..hard to mess it up really.


----------



## becasunshine

HotCoals said:


> Guess I'm getting to deep into it but she did fine..hard to mess it up really.



HotCoals, carry on.  I mean that sincerely and without irony.  It's not your fault that I had a catalytic melt down (the most efficient kind!)   It's my fault, truly.

I do completely understand geeking out about stuff and I do it too.  (Oh, I could introduce you to some people who've had a LOT of patience with me when I geek out.)  I went from theoretical to practical in 2.5 seconds without anybody in the world telling me to go there.  Again, lack of experience talking.

I love my new stove.  I don't want to break it.  So I'm being neurotic like a first time mama.  

Carry on, everyone. 

P.S.  Edited to tell HotCoals thank you again for your help as well.


----------



## HotCoals

becasunshine said:


> HotCoals, carry on.  I mean that sincerely and without irony.  It's not your fault that I had a catalytic melt down (the most efficient kind!)   It's my fault, truly.
> 
> I do completely understand geeking out about stuff and I do it too.  (Oh, I could introduce you to some people who've had a LOT of patience with me when I geek out.)  I went from theoretical to practical in 2.5 seconds without anybody in the world telling me to go there.  Again, lack of experience talking.
> 
> I love my new stove.  I don't want to break it.  So I'm being neurotic like a first time mama.
> 
> Carry on, everyone.
> 
> P.S.  Edited to tell HotCoals thank you again for your help as well.





It's a great stove and I would buy it all over again.

It shines in the shoulders and it heats great in the deep cold.

I was just trying to say go by how charred the wood is from a cold start rather then what the cat probe says as when to turn the air down for cruise. I close the by-pass way sooner then half to help heat the cat up faster.

The probe is affected by the stove top temp not that it matters but it is. When in a cruise turn the fans on and watch it drop.
After the wood is half gone there really is no gas left for the cat to burn so the reading of the probe is the stove top at that point..that's all.

Some BK owners don't want to hear that stuff. Like how the t-stat is really lazy and really is more a manual regulator of the intake air then it is a t-stat..but with experience with  where to set it ..it works some.
The outside temp seems to regulate the burn good enough anyways.

I have had burns of 40 hours with enough coals to light  off a new load in the shoulders .

In the deep cold and wind I always get at least 12 hours without much of a temp drop in my 2500sq.ft. two story hose that is reasonably tight and insulated.

It's a great heater that holds a lot of wood!


----------



## becasunshine

_*It's a great stove and I would buy it all over again.*

*It shines in the shoulders and it heats great in the deep cold.*_

We are already finding that it shines in the shoulders.  Tonight really isn't cool enough in the house to light the stove- but that has everything to do with the fact that we lit the stove last night.  Even though the wood was down to embers today, the stove radiated and kept the house warm enough all day long.  It's still 72'F in here, hardly cold enough to light a wood stove.  

_*I was just trying to say go by how charred the wood is from a cold start rather then what the cat probe says as when to turn the air down for cruise. I close the by-pass way sooner then half to help heat the cat up faster.*_

Ahh- I see now!  The first couple of times I used the stove, I did wait until the thermometer temp hit high noon in the active cat setting before I engaged the cat- out of an abundance of caution about putting out the fire.  That's Old School Wood Stove talking. I remember people reciting incantations and performing strange ritual dances trying to get and keep their old wood stoves started from cold.  In fact, that was one reason why everybody's house was 100'F with windows opened and everything smelled like smoke and creosote during the Arab Oil Embargo in the 1970s. No matter if it's 32'F outside, or 12'F outside, or 52'F outside, NEVER EVER LET THE WOOD STOVE GO COMPLETELY COLD.  BURN IT ON LOW FOR SIX MONTHS IF NECESSARY BUT NEVER LET IT GO COMPLETELY OUT BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE A SACRIFICE AND SELL YOUR SOUL TO GET IT RE-LIT. So I waited until that cat was good and ready before I closed the bypass.  Of course by this time the heat was rolling off of the stove.  A slower start definitely works for me with this stove.

It's amazing how easily this stove lights with dry wood.  If closing the bypass heats the cat up faster, causing it to engage faster, I'm all for that.  I love it that the wood we purchased in the spring is already so dry.  The trees were felled between one and three years ago, and the logs were split immediately before delivery.  I questioned the guy from whom we bought this wood to death about the dryness of the wood.  He swore to me it would be ready in October and he was telling the truth!  On the other hand, this wood is *dry* and it burns up quickly.  Getting the cat engaged early will help us conserve fuel and wring the most btu's out of it.

_*The probe is affected by the stove top temp not that it matters but it is. When in a cruise turn the fans on and watch it drop.*_

We opted not to have fans on the stove.  It's in an open area of the house and we don't really have to push the heat anywhere.  If you go back in this thread you can see pictures of the stove with the HVAC return above it.  (I can't remember who- it may have even been you!- commented on that.)  Unlike our experience with our pellet stove in town, the HVAC return and fan really do help move the heat through the house.  At least it seems to now.  It will be interesting to see if I feel that way when temps are well below freezing outside and the heat is being moved through ductwork in the unheated portions of our house.  But for right now that's working well.  Anyway, we can't engage the convection fans to do that experiment because we don't have them- but I do understand what you are saying.

*After the wood is half gone there really is no gas left for the cat to burn so the reading of the probe is the stove top at that point..that's all.
*
That makes sense.

*Some BK owners don't want to hear that stuff. Like how the t-stat is really lazy and really is more a manual regulator of the intake air then it is a t-stat..but with experience with  where to set it ..it works some.
*
I guess I always equated the thermostat (you are talking about the heat control knob on the back of the stove, right?) as a damper, and I've always understood the damper on any wood burning appliance as being not only an air control, but a heat control as well.  More air = hotter fire.  I do appreciate the design of the thermostat control though, and I like it that the "normal" range is marked.  The visual helps me.

*The outside temp seems to regulate the burn good enough anyways.
*
I don't understand this- please explain.  Does it have to do with cold dense air?  We don't have an outside air kit hooked to this stove.  We have one on the pellet stove and I was adamant about having one on the Blaze King as well to increase efficiency.  The stove shop owner talked me out of it, saying that we wouldn't need it.  So far he's right (but I still wonder if we'll notice the air coming through the cracks in this new construction house when it's colder outside.)  Do you have an outside air kit on your BK?

*I have had burns of 40 hours with enough coals to light  off a new load in the shoulders .
*
I could see that but I think our wood is too dry or I'm not turning the t-stat down far enough to get 40 hours out of this stove (yet.)  

*In the deep cold and wind I always get at least 12 hours without much of a temp drop in my 2500sq.ft. two story hose that is reasonably tight and insulated.*

I am so looking forward to this.  It gets gawd-awful cold here in the winter, with wind right off of the water.  All indicators are that we are going to have another remarkable winter in this area.  I could see myself coming here on winter weekends just to curl up by the wood stove.  The pellet stove is nice but nothing, nothing compares to the bone warming heat of a wood stove!    You have a King, right?  We have a Princess to heat about 2000 sq. ft.  I'll bet our winters, even though they can be harsh, are probably not as deep, as long or as cold as yours.  The wind does get up to 60 mph right off of the water here in the winter though.  Last year it froze the condenser in our gas furnace up solid where the drain exited the crawl space, and took the entire heating system off line.  Thank God we arrived here in time to get it unfrozen and back online before we lost pipes.  We could have used a wood stove that night for sure. It was 32'F to 33'F (depending on which thermometer one consulted) and the floors, walls and furniture had lost all of their stored heat.  It took a full 24 hours for the furnace to raise the house temp to 65'F and honestly, I'm surprised we reached 65'F in 24 hours as cold as everything in the house was.  We burned up a lot of expensive propane that weekend.  =/ =/

*It's a great heater that holds a lot of wood!*   <:3~


----------



## Todd 2

? for you guys. Been looking at the Sirocco 30 to replace the Summit and looking at the installation requirements they say 3 ft straight off the stove before any 90's and recommend two 45's all DWP from stove to thimble. I only have 5 ft from the floor to the center of the thimble however I do have 20 ft of 6" ridged insulated pipe that is in a tile lined chimney outside the house. The draft is constant even with a cold stove and will run the summit on low burn with the air shut pretty much off once warmed up.
How would you hook up the connection on a 30 ? try it like it is first ? This would not be a fun fix if the current thimble height would not work for the 30.

Thanks, Todd


----------



## HotCoals

No I don't have a outside air kit and most probably won't need one imo.

It seems the colder it is the more draft you will have which will regulate the burn more then you would think.
Temp differential between the inside and outside of your house is the reason.


----------



## blueguy

Todd 2 said:


> View attachment 142368
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? for you guys. Been looking at the Sirocco 30 to replace the Summit and looking at the installation requirements they say 3 ft straight off the stove before any 90's and recommend two 45's all DWP from stove to thimble. I only have 5 ft from the floor to the center of the thimble however I do have 20 ft of 6" ridged insulated pipe that is in a tile lined chimney outside the house. The draft is constant even with a cold stove and will run the summit on low burn with the air shut pretty much off once warmed up.
> How would you hook up the connection on a 30 ? try it like it is first ? This would not be a fun fix if the current thimble height would not work for the 30.
> 
> Thanks, Todd



I have an SC30, and the manuals says min of 2 ft before the first bend, preferably 3. My first bend is at 24" off the deck if the stove and my Sirocco burns just fine. You may end up with some slight smoke spillage, but I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.


----------



## jeff_t

Reading all these posts almost had me convinced that the thermostat is very active, then HotCoals snaps me back to
reality  I kinda want to by another thermostat assembly and eliminate the coil. Make it all solid, just to see how much difference it makes.

I gotta say, though, that my half-burned load of fuel has a lot left in it for the cat to burn. Not so much in cold weather when it's a half full box of glowing coals, but it certainly does this morning.

I know my stove is older, but how do I engage my cat? Mine is mounted solidly into the stove. It doesn't move.


----------



## tarzan

In my "very limited experience" I have noted my stove top thermometer dropping down to about 375f and then going back up to around 450f several times during a burn.

I can only believe that this is a result of the thermostat doing its job.


----------



## HotCoals

I can't advise you guys to take the cover off the t-stat to see for yourself but mine has been off for 4 years.
I'm not saying it doesn't work at all it does. Just nowhere as much as you would think.


----------



## Todd 2

blueguy said:


> I have an SC30, and the manuals says min of 2 ft before the first bend, preferably 3. My first bend is at 24" off the deck if the stove and my Sirocco burns just fine. You may end up with some slight smoke spillage, but I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.


Thanks Nick, at 2 ft off the top I would have to 90 deg ell straight into the thimble (as pictured on current stove) my chimney drafts good, so just trying to avoid any setbacks.   Thanks,  Todd


----------



## tarzan

HotCoals said:


> I can't advise you guys to take the cover off the t-stat to see for yourself but mine has been off for 4 years.
> I'm not saying it doesn't work at all it does. Just nowhere as much as you would think.



Mine says "do not remove cover" so of course I did.

Took the cover off while stove was cold just to get an idea of the mechanics. Thought about leaving it off but noticed the air would be somewhat pre heated by leaving the cover in place. 

Figured this was intentional so I put it back.

I don't have any expectation that the thermostat would completely open or shut the draft but as long as it helps maintain a cruzing temp while we sleep that's good enough for me.


----------



## webby3650

I really don't understand all this talk about the thermostat not working well. It works fabulous! It's what sets this stove apart from others. I can't imagine trying to improve on it, much less dumb it down by removing the coil.


----------



## tarzan

webby3650 said:


> I really don't understand all this talk about the thermostat not working well. It works fabulous! It's what sets this stove apart from others. I can't imagine trying to improve on it, much less dumb it down by removing the coil.



I'm with ya!

As I stated above, I don't think the thermostat was ever intended to completely run the stove. Otherwise, you could set the draft control at low ( if that's what you wanted) from a cold start. 

I believe its to assist in maintaining a cruising temp. 

Like a car, the cruise control can work fine but you still have to hit the gas to get up to speed and the brake to stop.


----------



## HotCoals

Just forget about it. You guys have it all figured out.


I never said it did not work.  Just that it does not have all that much effect or you would not have to turn the air up to burn down the coals.
I  have had mine off for 4 years and can see the thing .
The real magic is how the outside temps effect the burn..in a positive way.

Time to change the subject!


----------



## tarzan

Now wait a minute, I'm not saying I have it all figured out. In fact, I have made it clear through out this thread that this is my first year with the BK

I'm not even disagreeing with you that the thermostat will not run the stove, so to speak.

I'm only saying that from what I've seen so far, it will hold the stove at or near where I want it to run once I get it to that temp. As this is my first stove with a thermostat out of five, I'm loving it! I don't care that it won't open the draft all the way to start a fire or to finish a burn cycle. So long as it keeps holding a temp through the burn cycle.

This time last year I thought the thermostat WOULD completely open or close the draft. I even argued against a DS Machine stove with a thermostat because of it. I think you posted on that thread. I know better now and regret my argument.


----------



## HotCoals

Trust me it's more of a adjustment for the amount of the intake air. The stove cruises fine anyways without it moving. Most all stoves do even without a t-stat..lol

Look don't get me wrong I would buy the stove over again but not because of the stat.  I have been all over this stove in the last 4 years and I know how it all works.
Leave the cover off and watch it for a few days. Having the cover off will not change the operation one bit.
just be careful putting the cover back so that the flapper does not get jammed...prolly should just leave it on..it don't matter really.
We really need to get off this subject..lol..

So,how good is your glass at staying clean?..lol.

Cheers!


----------



## tarzan

I have to say so far this stove has been the tamest stove I have ever run. I said in another post "it does what you tell it to do"LoL with the exception of the couple times I charred a stove full at once getting it up to temp on a cold start.

As for the glass, yell lol. There is a small hole I can peek through at the top but not much going on behind it anyway  the wife is missing the action of the tube stove but not near as much as she is enjoying waking up to a warm house and not having to go straight from the bed to the stove.


----------



## rdust

HotCoals said:


> Just forget about it. You guys have it all figured out.
> 
> 
> I never said it did not work.*  Just that it does not have all that much effect or you would not have to turn the air up to burn down the coals.*
> I  have had mine off for 4 years and can see the thing .
> The real magic is how the outside temps effect the burn..in a positive way.
> 
> Time to change the subject!



It's not intended or designed to open back up as the stove cools.  It's a simple bi-metallic thermostat, it has no way to open up past it's set point.  I've said this before, I personally don't want it to burn my coals down for me.  If I'm not around I want it to hold the coals as long as it can.  If it opened as the stove cooled these stoves wouldn't get anywhere near the burn time they get.(I'm not aware of any modern stoves that opens the air as the stove cools)  Mine works as it's intended, it regulates the burn until there is not enough fuel for it to keep the temp the same.  I can sit here for hours and watch the stove go from dark to flames as needed to maintain my setting.  It's not rocket science, it's a design that is darn near perfect for a wood burning application.  In my opinion a wood fire needs a "lazy" t-stat, fires are slow to react to change and if the t-stat was too sensitive it would be a mess trying to regulate the fire.

If you run the t-stat at it's close point when the stove is cold(1 on my stove) it's obviously not going to open or do anything during the burn.


----------



## webby3650

I agree that the stat needs to be moved on occasion. My king didn't seem to need as much attention on the low end burns as the Ashford. But after having several tube stoves, I'd much rather bump up the air in the morning than add wood. Once the cold hits, the Ashford has nice clean glass!


----------



## HotCoals

rdust said:


> It's not intended or designed to open back up as the stove cools.  It's a simple bi-metallic thermostat, it has no way to open up past it's set point.  I've said this before, I personally don't want it to burn my coals down for me.  If I'm not around I want it to hold the coals as long as it can.  If it opened as the stove cooled these stoves wouldn't get anywhere near the burn time they get.(I'm not aware of any modern stoves that opens the air as the stove cools)  Mine works as it's intended, it regulates the burn until there is not enough fuel for it to keep the temp the same.  I can sit here for hours and watch the stove go from dark to flames as needed to maintain my setting.  It's not rocket science, it's a design that is darn near perfect for a wood burning application.  In my opinion a wood fire needs a "lazy" t-stat, fires are slow to react to change and if the t-stat was too sensitive it would be a mess trying to regulate the fire.
> 
> If you run the t-stat at it's close point when the stove is cold(1 on my stove) it's obviously not going to open or do anything during the burn.



A guy that gets it for the most part.
It really does not do much at all period.

Reason being if it opened to much in the middle of a burn it could get crazy.


----------



## becasunshine

HotCoals said:


> We really need to get off this subject..lol..



I like spaghetti.   

Do any of you cook on top of your BK?  I reheated dinner on top of ours the other night.  Favorite recipe for stove top?

Cooking or otherwise, what's your favorite wood stove add on or accessory?  I am rather partial to our PowerSmith ash vacuums.  (We have one for the pellet stove as well.)


----------



## Poindexter

Can someone talk about the indicated temp on the cat probe and help me figure out how much of the indicated temp is from direct contact with the enamel cover on my Ashford versus how much of the indicated temp is "real"

It looks to me like with the stove in bypass there is very little airflow over the temp probe.  I do see when I run from a hot or cold start up to the first little white tick mark out on the edge of the gauge that's about half a fingerwidth up into the active zone - and then engage- my cat lights right off and the indicated temp on the cat probe starts rising fast.


----------



## tarzan

Reason being if it opened to much in the middle of a burn it could


becasunshine said:


> I like spaghetti.
> 
> Do any of you cook on top of your BK?  I reheated dinner on top of ours the other night.  Favorite recipe for stove top?
> 
> Cooking or otherwise, what's your favorite wood stove add on or accessory?  I am rather partial to our PowerSmith ash vacuums.  (We have one for the pellet stove as well.)



We have cooked many meals on our stoves over the years. We go for days to weeks without power in the winter so the ability to cook on our wood stove has provided us warm meals at times we would otherwise be eating Bologna sandwiches. 

Cast iron cookware is the ticket when cooking on the wood stove!


----------



## webby3650

Most cat stoves have never had a cat probe thermometer. When the stove top was approaching 400/500 degree mark you closed the bypass and things went well. The BK made it even easier with active/inactive probe. I can't see how it would make any difference if the thermometer was being heated up from a little stovetop heat or from the cat itself. If the stove top is hot enough to move the therm into the active zone(which it won't have much effect since its a probe) then that means its hot enough to fire up and do its job.


----------



## Woody Stover

becasunshine said:


> If closing the bypass heats the cat up faster, causing it to engage faster, I'm all for that.





webby3650 said:


> I can't see how it would make any difference if the thermometer was being heated up from a little stovetop heat or from the cat itself. If the stove top is hot enough to move the therm into the active zone(which it won't have much effect since its a probe) then that means its hot enough to fire up and do its job.


Beca, I don't like to close the bypass until I'm sure the cat will light right away (cat probe will rise rapidly if the cat is burning.) My thinking is that if I have the bypass closed but the cat isn't burning, byproducts of combustion will be deposited in the cat. Sure, they will burn off when the cat lights, but will that leave ash stuck on the catalytic surface? I'm not really sure but I just like the cat to light right away when I start directing smoke through it. I figure that in the long run I'll have to boil out the cat less often in the distilled vinegar/distilled water solution. Then again, most cats probably never see a bath their whole lives. But some could probably be resurrected with a bath...
Like webby said, when the top insides of the stove are hot enough, the cat will light. I can achieve that with just the surface meter on the flue if I want to. I know that when warming the stove from a cold start, if I maintain a certain flue temp for a certain amount of time, the innards of the stove will most likely be hot enough so that the cat will light immediately when I close the bypass, and be glowing usually within a minute.


----------



## HotCoals

webby3650 said:


> Most cat stoves have never had a cat probe thermometer. When the stove top was approaching 400/500 degree mark you closed the bypass and things went well. The BK made it even easier with active/inactive probe. I can't see how it would make any difference if the thermometer was being heated up from a little stovetop heat or from the cat itself. If the stove top is hot enough to move the therm into the active zone(which it won't have much effect since its a probe) then that means its hot enough to fire up and do its job.




One last time.

Right now I'm at the end of a 24 hour burn. There are just a few small pieces of wood left..mostly all coal.
But yet my cat probe is at 10:00. Now that is just from heat not from gas's being burnt by the cat.
All I'm saying is just because the gauge is in the active zone that alone dose not mean it is truly active. 
I don't expect everyone to understand that but I thought you would.
But it makes no deference..burn away! Cheers!
.All is fine in the world!


----------



## tarzan

HotCoals said:


> One last time.
> 
> Right now I'm at the end of a 24 hour burn. There are just a few small pieces of wood left..mostly all coal.
> But yet my cat probe is at 10:00. Now that is just from heat not from gas's being burnt by the cat.
> All I'm saying is just because the gauge is in the active zone that alone dose not mean it is truly active.
> I don't expect everyone to understand that but I thought you would.
> But it makes no deference..burn away! Cheers!
> .All is fine in the world!



Hot Coals, most of us here understand more than you give us credit for.

We realize that you have ran your stove for years with the cover off the t-stat. We also realize the t-stat don't move much and that there's just not enough smoke left to keep the cat active at the end of a burn.

I think most of the new BK burners here and many old hands are just happy to own such a great stove and would just like to keep the operation of it as simple as it was meant to be and not get get bogged down by nit picking every little technicality.


----------



## HotCoals

tarzan said:


> Hot Coals, most of us here understand more than you give us credit for.
> 
> We realize that you have ran your stove for years with the cover off the t-stat. We also realize the t-stat don't move much and that there's just not enough smoke left to keep the cat active at the end of a burn.
> 
> I think most of the new BK burners here and many old hands are just happy to own such a great stove and would just like to keep the operation of it as simple as it was meant to be and not get get bogged down by nit picking every little technicality.


Well taken.
I'm a nit picker the wife says..lol. but the details are important to me.
But notice I did say more then once  I would buy the stove over again and I have said don't worry about it just run it!
Cheers!


----------



## BKVP

Lest ye believe all I do is fish!  Our freezer is officially full.


----------



## Rossco

Loaded her up yesterday @ 15:00. Just in from Nightshift. Loaded up again and fired right off. CAT still well active but I don't think it is really active like Hotcoals suggested, only a hand full of coals left. 

Anyhow, got the outside of the DWP to 80C at the first 45. Engage, turn down to 1.5. CAT lit right off. Just lovely.


----------



## webby3650

HotCoals said:


> One last time.
> 
> Right now I'm at the end of a 24 hour burn. There are just a few small pieces of wood left..mostly all coal.
> But yet my cat probe is at 10:00. Now that is just from heat not from gas's being burnt by the cat.
> All I'm saying is just because the gauge is in the active zone that alone dose not mean it is truly active.
> I don't expect everyone to understand that but I thought you would.
> But it makes no deference..burn away! Cheers!
> .All is fine in the world!


I understand that to be the case at the end of a burn cycle, but not at the beginning. I think that's what was being referred to when I got involved with this conversation.


----------



## HotCoals

webby3650 said:


> I understand that to be the case at the end of a burn cycle, but not at the beginning. I think that's what was being referred to when I got involved with this conversation.



It can happen at the beginning also if the by pass is left open too long as the stove is heating up then closed and then the air shut down to soon.
My wife would do that at times and if you went outside and looked smoke would be pouring out the chimney.
Sometimes the cat would fire off anyways and sometimes not.
Just something to watch for if your new at this stove.
We mostly close the by-pass maybe 10 mins into a new burn so that the cat is getting heated up good then adjust the air to what we need after the cat gauge is around 11:00.
Like I said kinda hard to mess up the operation of this stove but it can be done.


----------



## tarzan

BKVP said:


> Lest ye believe all I do is fish!  Our freezer is officially full.



Wow! I'm jealous. I envy you guys that live out west this time of year!

Congrats!


----------



## RustyShackleford

Out of town friend visiting.   I built a little fire last night - kinda chilly.    Tonite she came in, felt the stove, and wondered if I'd built a new fire (it was hot enough to not be able to hold your hand on it for long).   "Nope, haven't touched the thing since last night [about 24 hrs ago, when I put two small splits in]".   She could not believe it.  Kinda hard for me to believe as well.


----------



## Woody Stover

becasunshine said:


> Do any of you cook on top of your BK?





BKVP said:


> Lest ye believe all I do is fish!  Our freezer is officially full.


Yeah, can you cook salmon on a BK? 


HotCoals said:


> Right now I'm at the end of a 24 hour burn. There are just a few small pieces of wood left..mostly all coal.
> But yet my cat probe is at 10:00. Now that is just from heat not from gas's being burnt by the cat.
> All I'm saying is just because the gauge is in the active zone that alone dose not mean it is truly active.


If you still have wood gassing, the cat may well still be active. Even though the BK probe isn't marked with temps, I'm assuming that "active" starts at 500 degrees like the rest of the Condar probes. So if your probe was a bit over that, let's say 600. What did your stove top meter say? (Granted, the actual temp in the box may be a bit higher.) Did you have the air wide open, burning down the coals? At any rate, I don't think that in most cases you are going to push the cat probe to 600 or more when the cat is inactive. I've got the Dutchwest in now but haven't yet had a chance to burn full loads, but when I do (toward the weekend) I'll check it out. It's also possible that different stoves with different routing, probe position etc. may read differently. I don't remember the Keystone probe rising back over 500 when burning down coals, even though the stove top meter might rise 50-100 degrees.


HotCoals said:


> It can happen at the beginning also if the by pass is left open too long as the stove is heating up then closed and then the air shut down to soon.
> My wife would do that at times and if you went outside and looked smoke would be pouring out the chimney.


That sounds like it may be a case of cutting the air too _much_, not too soon. I mean, if you left the bypass open longer than usual (and I'm assuming the air was open more at start-up than in cruise) the stove and cat should be pretty hot. In my cat stoves, that means an instant light-off, cat glowing in ten seconds or so. It's possible that the cat may have been burning, just not eating all the smoke.


----------



## Rossco

Same again. Loaded it up before Nightshift. 

Just got home. 21F out. 74F in. Still some wood left. 

No apparent emissions from the stack.


----------



## BKVP

Woody Stover said:


> Yeah, can you cook salmon on a BK?
> If you still have wood gassing, the cat may well still be active. Even though the BK probe isn't marked with temps, I'm assuming that "active" starts at 500 degrees like the rest of the Condar probes. So if your probe was a bit over that, let's say 600. What did your stove top meter say? (Granted, the actual temp in the box may be a bit higher.) Did you have the air wide open, burning down the coals? At any rate, I don't think that in most cases you are going to push the cat probe to 600 or more when the cat is inactive. I've got the Dutchwest in now but haven't yet had a chance to burn full loads, but when I do (toward the weekend) I'll check it out. It's also possible that different stoves with different routing, probe position etc. may read differently. I don't remember the Keystone probe rising back over 500 when burning down coals, even though the stove top meter might rise 50-100 degrees.
> That sounds like it may be a case of cutting the air too _much_, not too soon. I mean, if you left the bypass open longer than usual (and I'm assuming the air was open more at start-up than in cruise) the stove and cat should be pretty hot. In my cat stoves, that means an instant light-off, cat glowing in ten seconds or so. It's possible that the cat may have been burning, just not eating all the smoke.



No I cannot cook salmon on the King.  I did not catch any this past year!  However, I do have 200 lbs of Halibut and yes I can cook that on top of my King. (Also caught a 50 Pacific Octopus and need to figure out how to cook that!)


----------



## Woody Stover

BKVP said:


> (Also caught a 50 Pacific Octopus and need to figure out how to cook that!)


Well, at least you don't have to worry about bones.


----------



## BKVP

OK let's talk turkey...Actually, since this is a performance thread, 3 years ago I cleaned my chimney and found this little guy insdie the top of my King!


----------



## HotCoals

He looks calmer then you about the deal..lol.


----------



## RustyShackleford

BKVP said:


> OK let's talk turkey...Actually, since this is a performance thread, 3 years ago I cleaned my chimney and found this little guy insdie the top of my King!


Birds freak me out.   Occasionally, in summertime, one will fall down my chimney into the stove; I typically wake up to hear this weird thrashing sound, before I realize what it is.   For awhile I had a piece of 1/2"-grid hardware cloth wrapped around the chimney cap, and it didn't seem to hurt my draft any, but I just cleaned my chimney and it was pretty cruddy so I removed it.   Since I only clean my chimney every 2-3 years, I may not put it back.   I may experiment with putting some "bird ribbon" on top of the cap.   It's foil ribbon, red on one side and silver on the other, purchased at a "wild bird" store; supposedly it looks like fire to them.   Seems to work pretty well against ravens when backpacking.


----------



## BKVP

BKVP said:


> OK let's talk turkey...Actually, since this is a performance thread, 3 years ago I cleaned my chimney and found this little guy insdie the top of my King!


He has cuter eyes for sure....


----------



## Woody Stover

BKVP said:


> 3 years ago I cleaned my chimney and found this little guy insdie the top of my King!


Oh, that's a hoot!


----------



## Niko

Blaze king has a video on youtube they just put out a lil bit ago.



I just installed mine last week and I am so loving this thing. Obviosuly this is a very beginning review for me but the video is 100 accurate for a rookie like me.  Im messig around with fans and pressure zones so i can figure out how to move the heat around.  Patients with trial and error my friends.  

I filled up my king all the way got her going at 10am its now 11:34pm and the wood is more then halfway full still, the setting is around 2.  Glass is black with a lil peekaboo up top but i could care less.  Still learning the stove but man o man I can FINALLY SLEEP AT NIGHT!


----------



## shoot-straight

wow, the bk thread was all the way at the bottom of page 2! we cant have that!

burning some pine chunks now, around 16-18% in the evenings to take the chill out in the am. mostly on low. MAN! is there some creosote inside my firebox. no worries? my loads have been small, i havent been filling the box up, so it doesnt burn off even when im pre-heating.  i installed my ashford last jan. i am getting it swept soon. it was swept during install. i am very curious what will come out. i only had to have my hearthstone done every 2 years and even then it was maybe a cup of creosote just near the top.


----------



## Dieselhead

Creosote you say?


----------



## Dieselhead

That's after about a dozen fires


----------



## BKVP

Dieselhead said:


> Creosote you say?
> 
> 
> View attachment 142928
> View attachment 142928


 
If I were you I would get a real hot fire and have it burn out those deposits.  We recommend at least one real hot fire for an hour each week.  Doing so will keep that acidic creosote from eating away at your stove parts.


----------



## shoot-straight

BKVP said:


> If I were you I would get a real hot fire and have it burn out those deposits.  We recommend at least one real hot fire for an hour each week.  Doing so will keep that acidic creosote from eating away at your stove parts.



thanks chris i certainly will do that. gonna bake me out of the house though! 

reagarding "hot fires" how much flame is too much and too long to hurt the combustor? when i open her up, there are lots of flames. i dont want to hurt the combustor.


----------



## craigbaill

I get some creosote in mine too but every night I light that puppy up GOOD and it all seems to bake off. I loaded her up the day before(??) Wednesday at 9:30pm. Last night, Thursday, at 10:15 I still had one log left and the room was at 76. I could easily have gone 2-3 hours more but I wanted to refill the box. I had the fire going good and cleaned the glass almost completely before knocking down the air. I can get it between 1 and 1.5 keeping the cat active. 

Happiness is sitting on the couch drinking coffee first thing in the morning., remembering how I froze a week before sitting in the same exact spot. Now, its 77 degrees, I'm in the same exact spot, same time of morning and its 32 degrees outside. The best part is I haven't spend a cent on oil to heat the house. If I was trying to heat my house with oil and make it 77 degrees, I would refill every 2 weeks, not 4. That's 4 weeks keeping the house at 66 degrees while we are home...


----------



## Gareth96

First fire... I'm looking at the initial firing process page that came with the Princess, and it says 400 for 45 mins and then 600 for an hour.  Is that stove top, flue, other?


----------



## shoot-straight

Gareth96 said:


> First fire... I'm looking at the initial firing process page that came with the Princess, and it says 400 for 45 mins and then 600 for an hour.  Is that stove top, flue, other?



i would assume thats stove top.  but do it in warmer weather- you will need to open some windows!


----------



## Gareth96

I've had it going for an hour and a half.. no stink yet, and stove top is up to about 550 now.. I do have the windows open, but still no real smell except that of wood burning..


----------



## shoot-straight

Gareth96 said:


> I've had it going for an hour and a half.. no stink yet, and stove top is up to about 550 now.. I do have the windows open, but still no real smell except that of wood burning..


 
wow, my ashford smoked us out.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> If I were you I would get a real hot fire and have it burn out those deposits.  We recommend at least one real hot fire for an hour each week.  Doing so will keep that acidic creosote from eating away at your stove parts.


 
After a few shoulder season burns my firebox is much much worse that that. The creo in those back corners is gloss black and looks thick and wet. This isn't normal? It's a problem? and if so, will a hot fire burn that off? The metal side heat shields can't be removed and the gap behind them is filled with creo flakes.

I'll see if I can't get a ripping hot fire this weekend to melt that creo.


----------



## Highbeam

shoot-straight said:


> thanks chris i certainly will do that. gonna bake me out of the house though!
> 
> reagarding "hot fires" how much flame is too much and too long to hurt the combustor? when i open her up, there are lots of flames. i dont want to hurt the combustor.


 
I'll do the same and have the same question. What's the method for this clean out burn? Whole bunch of kindling, cat engaged, air on max? for an hour? That seems scary.

We all want to do the right thing for stove longevity.


----------



## Highbeam

Gareth96 said:


> I've had it going for an hour and a half.. no stink yet, and stove top is up to about 550 now.. I do have the windows open, but still no real smell except that of wood burning..


 
My princess was not a smoker either during break in, double wall pipe isn't usually too stinky, the single wall guys seem to really get some fumes going.


----------



## mfetcho

All right BK lovers.  I am considering making the switch to a BK next year.  I installed a PE T6 last year and have always burned non-cat stoves.  I have had a Lopi Endeaver, Quadrafire Cumberland Gap, Quadrafire Yosemite (still have), and now my PET6. The T6 is a great burner!  One of the best non-cat I have ever owned.  What draws me to BK is the efficiency and long burn times.  I leave for work at 6:30am and stuff my stove and don’t get home until 4:30 or 5:00pm and I have to build a new fire every night.  I would love to come home to hot coals.  Questions:  The T6 has a 3.0cu box, will the Ashford 30 with the 2.75cu box put out similar heat?  I will be heating about 2,000 square feet up and down with the stove on the main floor.  I went through about 6 cords last year.  Is it likely I would burn less wood with a BK?  Any thoughts from BK owners is appreciated.


----------



## Woody Stover

Niko said:


> Blaze king has a video on youtube they just put out a lil bit ago.


Looks like a steel combustor in there. I would think if they still had the ceramics, they would be replacing a lot of cats under the 10-yr warranty, from non-nerd novices not knowing how to treat the cat right. Huh, they say colored newspaper is OK, just not glossy? Seems like I've heard black and white only. Wow, that ash drop is teeny compared to the one in the Buck 91...


----------



## Woody Stover

How are the blowers on the BK inserts, pretty quiet? The one on the mighty Buck is kinda loud. At the stove shop I heard the one on the Lopi Liberty...could barely hear that thing!


----------



## Woody Stover

shoot-straight said:


> MAN! is there some creosote inside my firebox. no worries?


Pretty common in cat stoves since you are often burning them low and the smoke hasn't gone through the combustor yet. Chimney after the cat stays pretty clean. Instead of wasting wood burning off fire box creo, I'll occasionally scrape it with a putty knife....or don't worry about it at all.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> My princess was not a smoker either during break in, double wall pipe isn't usually too stinky, the single wall guys seem to really get some fumes going.



X2, my Princess Parlor didn't smell very bad or for very long. Literally, smell was gone in minutes. Nothing like I remember the break in fire on the stove it replaced to be.


----------



## Gareth96

2.5 hrs in.. no smoke or smell.. cat's engaged.. feels like summer...


----------



## tarzan

When I'm burning on high to heat the stove. Once cat is active and bypass closed I still can't see running the stove on high for another 20 to 30 minutes. 

Maybe I may just need to get more comfortable with it.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> When I'm burning on high to heat the stove. Once cat is active and bypass closed I still can't see running the stove on high for another 20 to 30 minutes.
> 
> Maybe I may just need to get more comfortable with it.


 
I certainly have never done this either. Of course there is no "high" setting but I drop off of my max setting as soon as the bypass closes. BKVP seems to be saying an hour () on "real hot" once per week?


----------



## craigbaill

You guys are lucky....My first small fire was ok for smoke. The second, and bigger fire smelled a little. The third fire smelled alot and the fourth fire with her cranking was pretty smelly as well. I had fans on and windows open and it was 48degrees outside. It was like summer for me too! I don't think it was the double wall pipe so much as the stove itself. Its doesn't stink now when I do my "daily wide open clean her out" fire.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> I certainly have never done this either. Of course there is no "high" setting but I drop off of my max setting as soon as the bypass closes. BKVP seems to be saying an hour () on "real hot" once per week?



Ok, let's do it. You go first! Lol!

I do about the same as you on slowing the burn and still get some cleaning of the glass. I suppose they are talking about a complete cleaning.

Funny part is I ran the old tube stove at 700f with rolling secondaries without blinking an eye. This stove should be able to handle it just fine also. For some reason it just don't have the same feel.

Maybe we can work our way up to it 3 or 4 minutes at a time.


----------



## Gareth96

And the proof..


----------



## tarzan

Gareth96 said:


> And the proof..



Ain't it beautiful!

Sometimes it feels more like a heater that runs off wood smoke than a wood stove.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Ok, let's do it. You go first! Lol!
> 
> I do about the same as you on slowing the burn and still get some cleaning of the glass. I suppose they are talking about a complete cleaning.
> 
> Funny part is I ran the old tube stove at 700f with rolling secondaries without blinking an eye. This stove should be able to handle it just fine also. For some reason it just don't have the same feel.
> 
> Maybe we can work our way up to it 3 or 4 minutes at a time.


 
I'll let it rip. The stove seems well enough built in all the right places to take a healthy 600 degree burn for an hour. Like others, I am most concerned about flames hitting the cat. I'll probably run at setting #3 which is above the normal range for that one hour. Small splits stacked loosely.

I run this stove long and low all winter on purpose so this hot rodding adventure will be a first.


----------



## Parallax

A couple of weeks ago, I spoke to BKVP and he coached me to run the stove on high (all the way up) for an hour and a half. The video says to run it on high for a half hour after each reload. Hopefully Chris will come back and comment but I get the sense it's designed to run hot.


----------



## jeff_t

Highbeam said:


> I'll let it rip. The stove seems well enough built in all the right places to take a healthy 600 degree burn for an hour. Like others, I am most concerned about flames hitting the cat. I'll probably run at setting #3 which is above the normal range for that one hour. Small splits stacked loosely.



I burned like this for weeks at a time last winter, minus the small splits part. That stuff really doesn't burn out well, especially what's behind the shields.

Ignition temp of creosote is generally around 1000°F.


----------



## tarzan

Jeff T, did you run it at its highest (or max) draft setting? what kind of stove temps were normal? Also, I realize the cat has a guard in front of it but it seems like the strong draft would be pulling flames into it?


----------



## BKVP

To all BK owners...."this time of year, when burning on low frequently, do not hesitate to let the stove burn wide open on air control, by pass closed, small pieces for an hour or so."  We will often do so to help keep the firebox free of creosote  build up..  Now launch those stoves!


----------



## Dieselhead

my wood is well below 20% and it still looks like it does in that pic. I shut the bypass and only run it on about 1.5 once the cat is lit however....


----------



## Parallax

BKVP said:


> To all BK owners...."this time of year, when burning on low frequently, do not hesitate to let the stove burn wide open on air control, by pass closed, small pieces for an hour or so."  We will often do so to help keep the firebox free of creosote  build up..  Now launch those stoves!



You had me let mine rip for an hour and a half. How long can it safely be run this way?


----------



## Gareth96

In my limited 5 hours of experience burning wood.. it seems that most of the flames when it's set on high lick up the front of the stove.. and hit the cat.  I'm loading left/right as it says in the book.  It doesn't seem like there is any way around flames hitting the cat, except maybe go front to back?


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> I'll let it rip. The stove seems well enough built in all the right places to take a healthy 600 degree burn for an hour. Like others, I am most concerned about flames hitting the cat. I'll probably run at setting #3 which is above the normal range for that one hour. Small splits stacked loosely.
> 
> I run this stove long and low all winter on purpose so this hot rodding adventure will be a first.



I'm equally concerned with stove temps.

I've seen stove top temps at the cat run over 600f for hours once I set the draft/thermostat to 1


----------



## HotCoals

You could leave the by-pass open when burning crap off inside the box,maybe close the by-pass but don't latch it maybe?
I have never worried any about build up in the box ,seems it burns off now and then.


----------



## Highbeam

HotCoals said:


> You could leave the by-pass open when burning crap off inside the box,maybe close the by-pass but don't latch it maybe?
> I have never worried any about build up in the box ,seems it burns off now and then.


 
It might be paranoia but I worry about high heat loads shooting up through the bypass opening. I've seen photos of that sissy bar bent and bypass gasket frames warped out of shape. Shooting intense heat through that opening might not be the intent of the design. I never worried about the accumulation of shmook inside the firebox but after BKVP's input I suppose I maybe should be.


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> It might be paranoia but I worry about high heat loads shooting up through the bypass opening. I've seen photos of that sissy bar bent and bypass gasket frames warped out of shape. Shooting intense heat through that opening might not be the intent of the design. I never worried about the accumulation of shmook inside the firebox but after BKVP's input I suppose I maybe should be.


You make a good point on the by-pass I guess.
I dunno,I never gave it much thought on burning the crap out..it just seems to happen on it's own.


----------



## tarzan

Maybe even if the flame impingement shortens the life of the cat some it would still be better than the alternatives being discussed.


----------



## HotCoals

Or pull the cat and let er rip!
Clean out the area behind the cat while it is out and of course the cat itself.
Maybe once a year when you sweep the flue?
I'm not going to lose any sleep over it though..lol.


----------



## tarzan

HotCoals said:


> Or pull the cat and let er rip!
> Clean out the area behind the cat while it is out and of course the cat itself.
> Maybe once a year when you sweep the flue?
> I'm not going to lose any sleep over it though..lol.



Me neither. I think I'll keep the benefits in mind and burn hotter at the start of a load when it doesn't run us out of the house to do so but considering all the factors involved I doubt I will ever run my stove exactly "by the directions"


----------



## BKVP

Parallax said:


> You had me let mine rip for an hour and a half. How long can it safely be run this way?


You're good to go.  Don't worry about the extra .5 hours.


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> You could leave the by-pass open when burning crap off inside the box,maybe close the by-pass but don't latch it maybe?
> I have never worried any about build up in the box ,seems it burns off now and then.


Oh heck NO!!  The gasket retainers for the by pass WILL NOT tolerate the higher temps you would experience.  Do Not do this!  Only with the by pass closed should you attempt this hot fire to clean out the firebox.


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> Oh heck NO!!  The gasket retainers for the by pass WILL NOT tolerate the higher temps you would experience.  Do Not do this!  Only with the by pass closed should you attempt this hot fire to clean out the firebox.


Ok boss! lol


----------



## BKVP

tarzan said:


> Me neither. I think I'll keep the benefits in mind and burn hotter at the start of a load when it doesn't run us out of the house to do so but considering all the factors involved I doubt I will ever run my stove exactly "by the directions"


That's a good idea.  The greatest depreciation in the weight of load is the first few hours as the moisture is boiled from the wood.  This is also a good idea right after placing in a full load for an extended burn.  Good thinking Tarzan!


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> It might be paranoia but I worry about high heat loads shooting up through the bypass opening. I've seen photos of that sissy bar bent and bypass gasket frames warped out of shape. Shooting intense heat through that opening might not be the intent of the design. I never worried about the accumulation of shmook inside the firebox but after BKVP's input I suppose I maybe should be.


Your observations are correct Highbeam.  Do it with the by pass closed.


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> Ok boss! lol


Hey HotCoals I'm in NY (Long Island) Tues-Fri of next week for the Wood Stove Design Challenge.  Get your carcass up there and I'll buy you dinner....and BEER!


----------



## tarzan

BEER! 

I'm only 400 miles away myself!


----------



## HotCoals

I was out near Albany last week and that was 3.5 hours from my house! 
Picked up another sled!
Plus I don't drink beer..but a Capt/Coke finds it way to my belly now and then...lol.


----------



## BKVP

tarzan said:


> BEER!
> 
> I'm only 400 miles away myself!


Excuses, excuses!


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> I was out near Albany last week and that was 3.5 hours from my house!
> Picked up another sled!
> Plus I don't drink beer..but a Capt/Coke finds it way to my belly now and then...lol.


But that Italian deli "Anthony's" has some good grub!!


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> But that Italian deli "Anthony's" has some good grub!!


yeah. But just tonight even I settled for a Italian sub from Subway..such as life eh..but it was pretty good and way closer!
Have a good time out there! Cheers!


----------



## becasunshine

Tonight, about two hours in.  Stove top temperature right over the cat is at 634'F.  Stove has been running right in the middle of the "normal" setting on the thermostat for about an hour and 15 minutes or so.  Took about 30-45 minutes to get lit, running and established tonight from a stone cold stove.  Toasty warm in here now.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> I'm equally concerned with stove temps.
> 
> I've seen stove top temps at the cat run over 600f for hours once I set the draft/thermostat to 1



Yeah, here as well.  Right now as a matter of fact, except our thermometer is set right dead center in the middle of normal.  We are warming up a cold house so I don't mind the stove temp right now, as long as it's OK for the stove. 

In fact I'm rather loving the stove temp at the moment.


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> View attachment 142984
> 
> 
> Tonight, about two hours in.  Stove top temperature right over the cat is at 634'F.  Stove has been running right in the middle of the "normal" setting on the thermostat for about an hour and 15 minutes or so.  Took about 30-45 minutes to get lit, running and established tonight from a stone cold stove.  Toasty warm in here now.



How's the weather there tonight? Gonna be low 30s to high 20s here for the next couple days and I'm actually looking forward to burning 24/3. Lol


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> Yeah, here as well.  Right now as a matter of fact, except our thermometer is set right dead center in the middle of normal.  We are warming up a cold house so I don't mind the stove temp right now, as long as it's OK for the stove.
> 
> In fact I'm rather loving the stove temp at the moment.



No worries. We were actualy discussing running the stove with the draft/thermostat fully open for an hour or so to get rid of corrosive creosite build up in the stove. My post was in reference to that.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> How's the weather there tonight? Gonna be low 30s to high 20s here for the next couple days and I'm actually looking forward to burning 24/3. Lol



Low 40's to high 30's overnight, low to mid 50s during the day, with wind and rain.  We'll probably get wind off of the water with significant wind chill.  Coastal regions will see coastal flooding with 25-35 mph winds, with gusts up to 50 mph on the coast. 

Basically we're going to have *another* Nor'easter.  Darn it.  Just got over one at the end of last week.  =/


----------



## Rossco

You guys look way to deep into BK burns. 

Just load it up and run it. Mines never stopped in 2 weeks now. 

Don't worry about the crap in the box. Don't worry about the Cat. 
Don't worry about the Creo corrosion. 

Concentrate on dry wood.


----------



## HotCoals

We just like to act like we maintain and what not..we really don't actually do all that stuff we talk about..lol.


----------



## Rossco

HotCoals said:


> We just like to act like we maintain and what not..we really don't actually do all that stuff we talk about..lol.



I dunooooo. 

I won't be removing my CAT anytime in the distant future. 

Everything can be cleansed with fire!


----------



## Poindexter

I am with Rossco, but I don't have a big stack of three year old oak to load into my Ashford 30.

With birch or spruce under 16% MC, split small enough you need 14-16 pieces to fill the stove, light it up, let it rip, get it hot, engage the cat, leave it on three until it burns out.  You aren't going to hurt it with anything at or under 22M BTU/ cord that I know of.  Daytime high here was +25dF today.  If I am going to hurt something I'll still be in warranty ;-)

I do wish I had a stout cord of three year old white oak to try.  If you wanna send me some I'll PM my address.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter said:


> I am with Rossco, but I don't have a big stack of three year old oak to load into my Ashford 30.
> 
> With birch or spruce under 16% MC, split small enough you need 14-16 pieces to fill the stove, light it up, let it rip, get it hot, engage the cat, leave it on three until it burns out.  You aren't going to hurt it with anything at or under 22M BTU/ cord that I know of.  Daytime high here was +25dF today.  If I am going to hurt something I'll still be in warranty ;-)
> 
> I do wish I had a stout cord of three year old white oak to try.  If you wanna send me some I'll PM my address.


"Stout Oak"...suggest that name to Thomas at Hoodo for his next next brew...


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter said:


> I am with Rossco, but I don't have a big stack of three year old oak to load into my Ashford 30.
> 
> With birch or spruce under 16% MC, split small enough you need 14-16 pieces to fill the stove, light it up, let it rip, get it hot, engage the cat, leave it on three until it burns out.  You aren't going to hurt it with anything at or under 22M BTU/ cord that I know of.  Daytime high here was +25dF today.  If I am going to hurt something I'll still be in warranty ;-)
> 
> I do wish I had a stout cord of three year old white oak to try.  If you wanna send me some I'll PM my address.



Ah Oak'us Pokus. Couldn't be bothered on with it. Not when my Western Larch is only a point or two behind and drys in 20mins. 

Hope no one takes my comments as detrimental to the thread. Not my intention. 

I only loaded two large 'Larch' split in it tonight. To be honest its far to warm in here. The newborn is just Heat drunk and we have to wake her for feeds. 

The CAT in the active zone. I threw the by-pass and opened the door slowly. Then launched two splits EW in there then closed the door. Left it on 1.5 for 15 mins. Went down and poured the coals to it. The two splits instantly lit up. Once I grilled them a little I dropped it back to 1.5. I can see the CAT reflecting off the floor. Iam not gonna cotton wool this thing. Paid good $$$$ and its gonna do what I want.


----------



## Gareth96

BEAUTY!  Day 2 of using the Princess.. loaded it at 9pm last night, put it on 1.. woke up at 8am to 72 degree house and it's 35dF with 30mph gusts gusts outside.. and snowing..!  And there was even a bunch of coals still burning, tossed on some new stuff and.. FIRE.. This thing is awesome!

Oh, and I see a lot of people saying they 'engaged' the CAT.. Mine doesn't have the engage the CAT switch, what are you referring to, just getting it hot enough for the cat to become active?


----------



## HotCoals

Gareth96 said:


> BEAUTY!  Day 2 of using the Princess.. loaded it at 9pm last night, put it on 1.. woke up at 8am to 72 degree house and it's 35dF with 30mph gusts gusts outside.. and snowing..!  And there was even a bunch of coals still burning, tossed on some new stuff and.. FIRE.. This thing is awesome!
> 
> Oh, and I see a lot of people saying they 'engaged' the CAT.. Mine doesn't have the engage the CAT switch, what are you referring to, just getting it hot enough for the cat to become active?



Flipping the by-pass lever is engaging the cat.


----------



## Gareth96

Ahhhhh..


----------



## tarzan

Rossco said:


> You guys look way to deep into BK burns.
> 
> Just load it up and run it. Mines never stopped in 2 weeks now.
> 
> Don't worry about the crap in the box. Don't worry about the Cat.
> Don't worry about the Creo corrosion.
> 
> Concentrate on dry wood.



Your probably right. Hanging out here with Hot Coals and I guess I took the bait

As of now mine is into hour 52 of its longest burn to date. Will still be a couple weeks before we start 24/7 here.


----------



## jeff_t

Gareth96 said:


> Oh, and I see a lot of people saying they 'engaged' the CAT.. Mine doesn't have the engage the CAT switch, what are you referring to, just getting it hot enough for the cat to become active?



Ya, my cat doesn't move 

Since we're nitpicking, why CAT? Why not 'cat'? Unless we're talking about Caterpillar stock?



tarzan said:


> As of now mine is into hour 52 of its longest burn to date. Will still be a couple weeks before we start 24/7 here.



Pretty impressive. Longest I've gone is 48 hours.


----------



## mfetcho

mfetcho said:


> All right BK lovers.  I am considering making the switch to a BK next year.  I installed a PE T6 last year and have always burned non-cat stoves.  I have had a Lopi Endeaver, Quadrafire Cumberland Gap, Quadrafire Yosemite (still have), and now my PET6. The T6 is a great burner!  One of the best non-cat I have ever owned.  What draws me to BK is the efficiency and long burn times.  I leave for work at 6:30am and stuff my stove and don’t get home until 4:30 or 5:00pm and I have to build a new fire every night.  I would love to come home to hot coals.  Questions:  The T6 has a 3.0cu box, will the Ashford 30 with the 2.75cu box put out similar heat?  I will be heating about 2,000 square feet up and down with the stove on the main floor.  I went through about 6 cords last year.  Is it likely I would burn less wood with a BK?  Any thoughts from BK owners is appreciated.


Any thoughts from BK owners about the previous post?


----------



## jeff_t

My thoughts? If I was happy with the T6, it probably wouldn't be worth the switch. Unless you just have an itch.

Longer, even burns are likely, but will it be enough for your home?


----------



## tarzan

jeff_t said:


> Ya, my cat doesn't move
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty impressive. Longest I've gone is 48 hours.



Sorry, I really should have clarified that. 52 hours is the longest we've ran the stove without letting it go cold.

To date, our longest burn from start to reload was 24 hours. Stove could have easily made it a few more hours with enough coals left to start the new load though. 

Stove is so impressive I don't even tell many people about it. I would just get a reputation as a liar.


----------



## becasunshine

I'm getting ready to make some cornbread in a Lodge skillet on top of our Princess to go with some chili that I'll re-heat on the stove top as well.  TAKE THAT, PROPANE DEALER.


----------



## Parallax

Why do I get smoke sometimes and not at others? Blaze King has a video in which the guy flips the bypass closed and the smoke stops pretty much on a dime. For me, when the smoke stops at all, it's generally over a period of a half hour or more. I notice it if I turn the thermostat up (in addition to right after a reload). 

BKVP, I may have run it on high for a couple of hours once. Still no need to worry? You said it can't be run that way with the bypass door open. What if the door still isn't sealing super tight. You walked me through tightening it up, but I'm not sure I tightened it enough. The dollar bill was still pulling through without much resistance. At the end of the season, when I clean the chimney, I'll tighten it again.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> Sorry, I really should have clarified that. 52 hours is the longest we've ran the stove without letting it go cold.
> 
> To date, our longest burn from start to reload was 24 hours. Stove could have easily made it a few more hours with enough coals left to start the new load though.
> 
> Stove is so impressive I don't even tell many people about it. I would just get a reputation as a liar.



Stove makes *me* look good!  

(and I'm a dog!  See Icon.)


----------



## tarzan

Well, your a cute dog

How's the cornbread?


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> Well, your a cute dog
> 
> How's the cornbread?



Not yet.  Soon.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> Well, your a cute dog
> 
> How's the cornbread?



I don't yet have a trivet, so I have the Lodge pan sitting in my griddle to give a bit of spacing at the bottom of the pan.  Hopefully that will keep the bottom of the cornbread from burning.  Will let you know how it turns out!


----------



## becasunshine

Also have reached point where windows are opened and stove is running.  It's in the 40's outside, with the wind chill temp in the 30's, so it's not like we don't need heat!


----------



## becasunshine

Cornbread.  I ended up having to take the frying pan off of the griddle and put it directly on the stove top.  Once there I had to watch it closely to keep from burning the bottom but it sure cooked up nicely!


----------



## HotCoals

jeff_t said:


> My thoughts? If I was happy with the T6, it probably wouldn't be worth the switch. Unless you just have an itch.
> 
> Longer, even burns are likely, but will it be enough for your home?



He says he has to relight his t-6 every night.
So I'm thinking with the BK he should not have to..and that is worth a lot.
Will the BK heat his house any better,I don't know.
But I do know going from a non cat bk to a bk with one  I use way less wood..my house temp stays way more even and it's warmer then before by a significant amount.


----------



## jeff_t

HotCoals said:


> He says he has to relight his t-6 every night.
> So I'm thinking with the BK he should not have to..and that is worth a lot.
> Will the BK heat his house any better,I don't know.
> But I do know going from a non cat bk to a bk with one  I use way less wood..my house temp stays way more even and it's warmer then before by a significant amount.



You went from a non EPA BK to a catalytic BK. Don't know if it's a fair comparison.

Considering six cord in a season, I guess the winters in Spokane are quite a bit harsher than at the coast. A BK could certainly be burned at a rate to leave plenty of coals after twelve hours. Will it be enough? The T6 doesn't appear to be. Not sure if it will really be an upgrade or not, being very similarly sized stoves being burned at high output.


----------



## HotCoals

jeff_t said:


> *You went from a non EPA BK to a catalytic BK. Don't know if it's a fair comparison.*
> 
> Considering six cord in a season, I guess the winters in Spokane are quite a bit harsher than at the coast. A BK could certainly be burned at a rate to leave plenty of coals after twelve hours. Will it be enough? The T6 doesn't appear to be. Not sure if it will really be an upgrade or not, being very similarly sized stoves being burned at high output.



Probably not. 
Thing is he will get longer burn times with a cat but i don't know if his house will end up warmer or colder with the longer burn times of a few hours with the cat stove till he can get it filled again.


----------



## jeff_t

I guess it would be interesting to know some more info. 

I'm guessing a lower density softwood is being burned. Ten to eleven hours shouldn't be a problem for a T6 with good hardwood. Is the Quad still being used, or is the PE doing all the work? 

In this situation, I'd be looking at a bigger stove, or a second stove.

There ain't no magic in a Blaze King. It evens out the early part of the burn cycle, with a lower peak in stove temps, and stretches that peak out for a proportionally longer time. After the offgassing is over, you are still left with a pile of coals.


----------



## mfetcho

Thanks for the comments.  We burn red fir, white fir, pine and tamarack.  No oak.  The T6 doesn't have any issues keeping my house warm, it's a great stove.  Sounds like Id probably go through the same amount of wood with a BK the heat would just be distributed differently.  I watched a video on you tube for a BK demo and the guy put his hand through the cut away of a flew after shutting the bypass.  Are the flue temps really that low or was it was it a joke?


----------



## mfetcho

jeff_t said:


> I guess it would be interesting to know some more info.
> 
> I'm guessing a lower density softwood is being burned. Ten to eleven hours shouldn't be a problem for a T6 with good hardwood. Is the Quad still being used, or is the PE doing all the work?
> 
> In this situation, I'd be looking at a bigger stove, or a second stove.
> 
> There ain't no magic in a Blaze King. It evens out the early part of the burn cycle, with a lower peak in stove temps, and stretches that peak out for a proportionally longer time. After the offgassing is over, you are still left with a pile of coals.


I should have mentioned that the Quad Yosemite is in our cabin and not in our house.  The T6 does all the work in our house.


----------



## Highbeam

The t6 is a dang nice stove for a noncat. The bk does offer one thing that the t6 can't, that is the ability to burn low and slow. If, this is an important if, you can sufficiently heat your home on the lower settings then the bk will allow superior heating but not save much wood.

Red fir is not a real tree, you probably mean Douglas fir and six cords is a lot but not unheard of in a needy house in Spokane.


----------



## Rich2343

W


BKVP said:


> If I were you I would get a real hot fire and have it burn out those deposits.  We recommend at least one real hot fire for an hour each week.  Doing so will keep that acidic creosote from eating away at your stove parts.


what stove temp do you consider to be hot.?


----------



## Niko

Ok, so i pretty much have read this whole thread.   Dont know if I missed this but what are you guys doing to clean out the ashes on a ultra?  Theirs the little black plug per say between the firebricks, so are cleaning the ahses out with some coals inside just to keep the stove hot?  Are doing it with a cold stove?  Do you leave the plug inserted all the time and pull it out just to clean the ash?  Need to clean the ashes out soon and was hoping i can leave the stove hot while cleaning it..


----------



## blueguy

I clean my Sirocco with the stove hot between reloads when needed. Just leave the coals to light the next load.


----------



## jeff_t

I used my ash pan once. It's okay, I suppose. 

I'd rather shovel.


----------



## daleeper

mfetcho said:


> I watched a video on you tube for a BK demo and the guy put his hand through the cut away of a flew after shutting the bypass.  Are the flue temps really that low or was it was it a joke?



That's no joke.  I have done it myself at a dealer that had one of those flue demos.


----------



## Speed trap

*Looks good *


----------



## webby3650

I clean mine out once a week or so, I never let the fire go out. I just move the big coals to the side and rake the ashes down the hole. Make sure to put the plug back when your done. I can't imagine having a nice Ashpan system and not using it. Their design is so much nicer than others I've used.


----------



## tarzan

daleeper said:


> That's no joke.  I have done it myself at a dealer that had one of those flue demos.



I think this is were the BKs really shine over tube stoves. Both are capable of running efficient as far as burning clean. I think the BKs do a better job of scrubbing the extra heat provided by the gases without sending it up the stack.


----------



## Highbeam

Niko said:


> Ok, so i pretty much have read this whole thread.   Dont know if I missed this but what are you guys doing to clean out the ashes on a ultra?  Theirs the little black plug per say between the firebricks, so are cleaning the ahses out with some coals inside just to keep the stove hot?  Are doing it with a cold stove?  Do you leave the plug inserted all the time and pull it out just to clean the ash?  Need to clean the ashes out soon and was hoping i can leave the stove hot while cleaning it..



With our evergreen species of wood and the deep belly of the princess firebox I can go months without emptying ashes. When I do empty them it would be several loads from the tiny ash pan. Plus why screw around trying to sift them through a tiny plug in the firebox floor? Open the door, shovel them out, dump the bucket in the compost pile. 

I believe that almost all ash pans are installed as a marketing trick so that a segment of the market will buy based on the presence of the ash pan. Look at wood furnaces or even pellet stoves. Those ash pans are huge. 

The plug in the princess firebox is supposed to stay there until you empty the ash and then you have to put it back for burning. Fish for it through the ash with that bk hook tool. You can leave the stove hot.


----------



## Highbeam

Rich2343 said:


> W
> what stove temp do you consider to be hot.?



I ran a "self clean" cycle yesterday on mine. Half load, stat on three, for an hour. Stove temp at 600 and cat meter pegged at the top of active. Did a good job at drying and cleaning firebox tar.


----------



## mfetcho

tarzan said:


> I think this is were the BKs really shine over tube stoves. Both are capable of running efficient as far as burning clean. I think the BKs do a better job of scrubbing the extra heat provided by the gases without sending it up the stack.


That's what makes me think I might go through less wood.  Less heat going out the flue should mean more heat in my house.  Reading more about cat stoves intrigues me to want to try one.


----------



## shoot-straight

Waiting for my chimney sweep. Did some poking around my ashford. I may have found one of the reasons I haven't been getting eak performance from it. My combustor is downright loose. It was actually slid out a bit.... Guess I need a new gasket. I pushed it in as tight as I could get it in the meantime. I don't think the fit was right from the get go. I don't know if the installer even checked it on the install. How tight should it be?

Best place to order one online? Not gonna go through dealer. Too far.


----------



## Highbeam

shoot-straight said:


> Waiting for my chimney sweep. Did some poking around my ashford. I may have found one of the reasons I haven't been getting eak performance from it. My combustor is downright loose. It was actually slid out a bit.... Guess I need a new gasket. I pushed it in as tight as I could get it in the meantime. I don't think the fit was right from the get go. I don't know if the installer even checked it on the install. How tight should it be?
> 
> Best place to order one online? Not gonna go through dealer. Too far.


That cat should be solid in there. No wiggle.


----------



## jeff_t

shoot-straight said:


> Best place to order one online? Not gonna go through dealer. Too far.



http://www.firecatcombustors.com/ACIG-2-p/sku_acig-2.htm

Wrap the cat and secure it with a piece of masking tape. It should slide in easily. The gasket will expand when it gets hot and the tape will burn off.

That is assuming it is similar to the princess and king.


----------



## webby3650

shoot-straight said:


> Waiting for my chimney sweep. Did some poking around my ashford. I may have found one of the reasons I haven't been getting eak performance from it. My combustor is downright loose. It was actually slid out a bit.... Guess I need a new gasket. I pushed it in as tight as I could get it in the meantime. I don't think the fit was right from the get go. I don't know if the installer even checked it on the install. How tight should it be?
> 
> Best place to order one online? Not gonna go through dealer. Too far.


Often times the cat will slide forward during transit and needs pushed back into place. They fit pretty loose before it gets fired, if it slid back into place id say your fine. Was the gasket visible? If it didn't rip or fall out, it's probably fine.


----------



## shoot-straight

I can see it. Its kinda crumbly. I think I will replace it. 2"?


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> I ran a "self clean" cycle yesterday on mine. Half load, stat on three, for an hour. Stove temp at 600 and cat meter pegged at the top of active. Did a good job at drying and cleaning firebox tar.


Bingo!


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> I ran a "self clean" cycle yesterday on mine. Half load, stat on three, for an hour. Stove temp at 600 and cat meter pegged at the top of active. Did a good job at drying and cleaning firebox tar.



I did the same yesterday evening. Loaded the stove about 3 hours before I went to bed so I figured, why not.

Cat meter didn't quite make it to pegged but very close.

More surprising to me was the stove temp. My biggest worry was over firing the stove but once it reached a little over 600f (according to my Rutland that was pretty close to actual in past years) it sat there.

Once I adjusted the thermostat to a setting of 1 in two steps it climbed up to 650f for a while before settling in.  

Stove was cleansed, reloaded before bed and now that I know it's not going to have a melt down I will do it as needed.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> I did the same yesterday evening. Loaded the stove about 3 hours before I went to bed so I figured, why not.
> 
> Cat meter didn't quite make it to pegged but very close.
> 
> More surprising to me was the stove temp. My biggest worry was over firing the stove but once it reached a little over 600f (according to my Rutland that was pretty close to actual in past years) it sat there.
> 
> Once I adjusted the thermostat to a setting of 1 in two steps it climbed up to 650f for a while before settling in.
> 
> Stove was cleansed, reloaded before bed and now that I know it's not going to have a melt down I will do it as needed.



I know that our Princess was at 634'F on the stove top Friday night at the end of our start up routine, before we got her settled into a nice mid-range burn.

I let her burn for about an hour or so on high as well before I turned her down for the over night.

This is what the inside of our box looks like today.  Granted we've not had that many fires but we are in shoulder season, so we are burning on the lower settings.

Are the dark corners in the back the beginnings of creosote build up? Or is this what a clean fire box looks like?   The stove burned on low overnight and has had embers in it all day.

The wood is dry.  Moisture meter says about 12% on any given piece.


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> I know that our Princess was at 634'F on the stove top Friday night at the end of our start up routine, before we got her settled into a nice mid-range burn.
> 
> I let her burn for about an hour or so on high as well before I turned her down for the over night.
> 
> This is what the inside of our box looks like today.  Granted we've not had that many fires but we are in shoulder season, so we are burning on the lower settings.
> 
> Are the dark corners in the back the beginnings of creosote build up? Or is this what a clean fire box looks like?   The stove burned on low overnight and has had embers in it all day.
> 
> The wood is dry.  Moisture meter says about 12% on any given piece.
> 
> View attachment 143120



I can't tell if the dark corners are creosite on this phone but if so it is a neglegable amount.

Looks good


----------



## becasunshine

OH, I have another question.  We've used newspaper and Super Cedars to start our fires.

Does anyone here have any experience with rolling newspapers into fire starter logs to use as kindling?
Sort of considering it...


----------



## Dieselhead

I tried my high temp at startup to clean up the firebox, saw 650 temp above the cat on the ir temp gun and got that new stove smell again (pancakes) so I wussed out and backed it down. This was about 10 min past closing the bypass so what's safe max stove temp above the cat?


----------



## becasunshine

Dieselhead said:


> I tried my high temp at startup to clean up the firebox, saw 650 temp above the cat on the ir temp gun and got that new stove smell again (pancakes) so I wussed out and backed it down. This was about 10 min past closing the bypass so what's safe max stove temp above the cat?



Yes, what he said!  I should read the owner's manual again, but I don't remember seeing a top end temp mentioned.


----------



## tarzan

I don't think you were in any danger at 650f. I used a 1/2 load for my clean out burn. Was thinking things would get to hot with a full load but I can't say for sure.

Until I here different I will consider 750f the stopping point.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> I don't think you were in any danger at 650f. I used a 1/2 load for my clean out burn. Was thinking things would get to hot with a full load but I can't say for sure.


I also chose a half load so that the steel from above the firebrick would all be exposed to the heat. If temps had gone past 650 I might have kicked the fan on or chickened out a bit too. Target was 600.


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead said:


> I tried my high temp at startup to clean up the firebox, saw 650 temp above the cat on the ir temp gun and got that new stove smell again (pancakes) so I wussed out and backed it down. This was about 10 min past closing the bypass so what's safe max stove temp above the cat?



650 is fine, most steel stoves list an over-fire temp around 800.


----------



## Dieselhead

I could have easily exceeded 650 I had it stuffed to the gills and wide open. I'll try a half load next time


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> I also chose a half load so that the steel from above the firebrick would all be exposed to the heat. If temps had gone past 650 I might have kicked the fan on or chickened out a bit too. Target was 600.



That was good thinking. I chose 1/2 load, actually a little less, just because I truly doubt I could have done it without over firing on a full load. Never gave any thought to the steel above the bricks getting better exposure.


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead said:


> I could have easily exceeded 650 I had it stuffed to the gills and wide open. I'll try a half load next time



You have to remember even with it on a high setting the t-stat will close it down some as it heats up.  If Chris says it can take wot for a hour I see no reason to doubt him.

Of course I'll never find out since I'm not worried about a little crap building up inside my stove during the shoulder season.


----------



## Rossco

Yeah I can get more than 650 ontop No worries.

Anyhow, loaded it last night 22:40 and its now 16:30. Fresh load.





And she's off. Won't open the door for another 20 hrs. Due in off nights at 08:00 MST.


----------



## tarzan

rdust said:


> You have to remember even with it on a high setting the t-stat will close it down some as it heats up.  If Chris says it can take wot for a hour I see no reason to doubt him.
> 
> Of course I'll never find out since I'm not worried about a little crap building up inside my stove during the shoulder season.



Chris also said a hot fire for about an hour each week  was a good idea to get rid of the acidic creosite.....do you doubt him


----------



## jeff_t

Sheesh, if it starts to get too hot, all you have to do is turn the knob.

I've been at 750 a few times. It's not easy to do, but I need some heat sometimes. Maybe if I had a bunch of tiny splits like y'all.


----------



## Rossco

jeff_t said:


> Sheesh, if it starts to get too hot, all you have to do is turn the knob.
> 
> I've been at 750 a few times. It's not easy to do, but I need some heat sometimes. Maybe if I had a bunch of tiny splits like y'all.



Sheesh. Maybe you should haul @ss and split some wood. I do it I the fly to ensure a full load. Probably take OAK 10 year to dry if you split the size I do Ha Ha Ha.  

Not bothered about build up in the box either. Don't care about corrosion or the precious CAT. 

Oh and I ain't a slave to this thing either. Imagine If I had time to sit in front of the BK and adjust the Thermo 1* every 15mins. Too busy with life and kids.





Good night, god bless, see y'all  in the morning.


----------



## Dieselhead

jeff_t said:


> Sheesh, if it starts to get too hot, all you have to do is turn the knob.
> .


Yep it was well off and I turned it from 6 o'clock down to about 3 o'clock knocked the flames right down


----------



## BKVP

tarzan said:


> Chris also said a hot fire for about an hour each week  was a good idea to get rid of the acidic creosite.....do you doubt him


Especially during shoulder season when low burns are the norm....


----------



## rdust

tarzan said:


> Chris also said a hot fire for about an hour each week  was a good idea to get rid of the acidic creosite.....do you doubt him



Nope, I don't doubt him at all.  I just don't care if the stove lasts a couple years less than it could have.


----------



## jeff_t

Rossco said:


> Sheesh. Maybe you should haul @ss and split some wood. I do it I the fly to ensure a full load. Probably take OAK 10 year to dry if you split the size I do Ha Ha Ha.



There's some pics around here of a King pretty well stuffed with eight splits 

I don't have them anymore. Lost them with a phone somewhere.


----------



## Niko

Tried using the hole to clean out the ashes but you guys are right i have plenty of time before i need to really clean it.  Cant have to much coals in their either cause its freaking hot in their lol.  

I do have this scenario tho.  i was a little cold so i cranked up the thermo to 2.8-3 somewjere around their with the fan on low just to move the air around.  Did that around 6am around 7:30 the power went out as i heard a tree go boom lol.  Went downstairs just to check out the stove again and obviously the fan was off but the cat was past its active zone so i immediatley turned the thermo down to 2.  But why did it go past the active zone?  Also i know the cat is active when its in the actove zone.  But i only see hear glow usually when the active zone is at 1oclock and over. 

Any help would be awesome.


----------



## rdust

Niko said:


> Tried using the hole to clean out the ashes but you guys are right i have plenty of time before i need to really clean it.  Cant have to much coals in their either cause its freaking hot in their lol.
> 
> I do have this scenario tho.  i was a little cold so i cranked up the thermo to 2.8-3 somewjere around their with the fan on low just to move the air around.  Did that around 6am around 7:30 the power went out as i heard a tree go boom lol.  Went downstairs just to check out the stove again and obviously the fan was off but the cat was past its active zone so i immediatley turned the thermo down to 2.  But why did it go past the active zone?  Also i know the cat is active when its in the actove zone.  But i only see hear glow usually when the active zone is at 1oclock and over.
> 
> Any help would be awesome.



The fan was cooling off the probe so your reading was false with the fan running.  I'm assuming your stove is new, the cat will settle in after a while and won't be so sensitive.  The probe is far from perfect, it is affected by stove top temps and the fans influence the reading.  Just burn the stove how you need to and don't sweat the small details.


----------



## webby3650

Rossco said:


> Sheesh. Maybe you should haul @ss and split some wood. I do it I the fly to ensure a full load. Probably take OAK 10 year to dry if you split the size I do Ha Ha Ha.
> 
> Not bothered about build up in the box either. Don't care about corrosion or the precious CAT.
> 
> Oh and I ain't a slave to this thing either. Imagine If I had time to sit in front of the BK and adjust the Thermo 1* every 15mins. Too busy with life and kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good night, god bless, see y'all  in the morning.


How could you not care about corrosion if its avoidable? This is a real issue with a BK that is ran low too often. The creosote can and will eat up the metal over time. A good hot fire is an easy remedy. If you heat seriously with it, there is probably never gonna be an issue. It's an issue if you never crank it up though.


----------



## rdust

webby3650 said:


> How could you not care about corrosion if its avoidable? This is a real issue with a BK that is ran low too often. The creosote can and will eat up the metal over time. A good hot fire is an easy remedy. If you heat seriously with it, there is probably never gonna be an issue. It's an issue if you never crank it up though.



You'll never own a stove long enough for this to matter!   

For me I burn hot enough without having to burn hot for an hour once a week.  I burn hot for 15 minutes or so at the beginning of every burn and very seldom go below 1 1/2.


----------



## Highbeam

Niko said:


> Tried using the hole to clean out the ashes but you guys are right i have plenty of time before i need to really clean it.  Cant have to much coals in their either cause its freaking hot in their lol.
> 
> I do have this scenario tho.  i was a little cold so i cranked up the thermo to 2.8-3 somewjere around their with the fan on low just to move the air around.  Did that around 6am around 7:30 the power went out as i heard a tree go boom lol.  Went downstairs just to check out the stove again and obviously the fan was off but the cat was past its active zone so i immediatley turned the thermo down to 2.  But why did it go past the active zone?  Also i know the cat is active when its in the actove zone.  But i only see hear glow usually when the active zone is at 1oclock and over.
> 
> Any help would be awesome.



The cat gauge is a pass/fail indicator, once above the active line it doesn't matter how active you are.


----------



## BrotherBart

Highbeam said:


> The cat gauge is a pass/fail indicator, once above the active line it doesn't matter how active you are.



Along about 1,800 degrees I would disagree.


----------



## Rich2343

webby3650 said:


> How could you not care about corrosion if its avoidable? This is a real issue with a BK that is ran low too often. The creosote can and will eat up the metal over time. A good hot fire is an easy remedy. If you heat seriously with it, there is probably never gonna be an issue. It's an issue if you never crank it up though.


My Princess needs the by pass door bold tightened. It doesn't latch as tight like she use to. However the cat is cracked in 3 pieces and am concerned that when I take it out to access the bolt easier I will not get the cat back in. Has anyone delt will this before.?


----------



## RustyShackleford

Highbeam said:


> ... why screw around trying to sift them through a tiny plug in the firebox floor?
> 
> I believe that almost all ash pans are installed as a marketing trick...


Disagree.  One thing I dislike about shoveling into a bucket is that it creates a cloud of ash that I think deposits around the room.    The ash pan containsall that mess.   It takes me about 30 sec to "screw around trying to sift" enough ashes to fill the pan.    And I typically take about 3 pan loads when I do empty the stove.   I could wait longer - and so more ashpan-fulls - but I like having more room in the firebox to load her up.


----------



## RustyShackleford

Rich2343 said:


> My Princess needs the by pass door bold tightened. It doesn't latch as tight like she use to.


Why is this important and how do you test ?  The manual doesn't seem to say anything about it.  Gravity pretty much hold it closed, right ?


----------



## tarzan

RustyShackleford said:


> Why is this important and how do you test ?  The manual doesn't seem to say anything about it.  Gravity pretty much hold it closed, right ?



You do know the bypass door latches shut, right?

I only ask this because I thought it sealed under its own weight for the first couple weeks. Wasn't until a thread here that I realized it actually latched shut.


----------



## Rich2343

RustyShackleford said:


> Why is this important and how do you test ?  The manual doesn't seem to say anything about it.  Gravity pretty much hold it closed, right ?


As I understand it's to shut then klunk. This helps with a tighter seal.


----------



## webby3650

Rich2343 said:


> My Princess needs the by pass door bold tightened. It doesn't latch as tight like she use to. However the cat is cracked in 3 pieces and am concerned that when I take it out to access the bolt easier I will not get the cat back in. Has anyone delt will this before.?


You access the bypass adjustment through the flue collar. I wouldn't worry too much with it, it seals pretty good on the gasket even if it doesn't latch. Next time you clean the flue take a look at it.


----------



## tarzan

What about loading the stove while the cat is still active?

Shoulder season! Was 25f here last night but the high today is supposed to be around 60f, so I misjudged my burn time when I loaded the stove last night and need about 3 more hours of heat than I'm going to get. So would it be ok to open the bypass and throw a couple pieces in with the cat probe thermometer on the first small line in active or should I wait until it is inactive to open the door?


----------



## BKVP

webby3650 said:


> You access the bypass adjustment through the flue collar. I wouldn't worry too much with it, it seals pretty good on the gasket even if it doesn't latch. Next time you clean the flue take a look at it.


Webby is correct.  The click is the sound of the by pass crank rod going past center and stopping up against the adjustment bolt.  You do adjust through the flue collar as well.  CAUTION. THE ADJUSTMENT REQUIRES A 7/16th OPEN OR BOX END WRENCH.  THERE IS A KEEPER NUT BELOW THE HEAD OF THE BOLT.  YOU MUST LOOSEN THE KEEPER BOLT BEFORE TURNING THE BOLT 1/4 TURN CLOCKWISE.  FAILURE TO LOOSEN KEEPER NUT WILL RESULT IN BOLT SNAPPING OFF AND A PARTS NEEDED PHONE CALL.

MAKE SMALL 1/4 TURN ADJUSTMENTS.  REMEMBER, AS THE STOVE HEATS UP, THE TENSION MAY INCREASE.


----------



## Rossco

Yeah what I ment by 'Dont care' is I always run the stove HOT so it's not an issue really. You can see the glass is relatively clean in the second pic I posted. 

Infact, only coals left this morning as the wife turned it up before bed. The glass is super clean compaired to most I've seen. 

I do relatively hot reloads. No choice sometimes. Throw the by-pass and open the door slowly. Reload and fire her off. 

The more I read about BK's on here the   more I think people are turned off buying one because of the baby sitting involved with these CAT units. Don't do this, don't so that etc etc. If you do this the CAT will explode or the firebox will rot out. 

Fill it with DRY wood and enjoy. Heck if the thing piles up I will be on the blower to Chris if the dealer ain't gonna play ball.


----------



## Dieselhead

I'm a first year cat burner and am impressed with the lack of babysitting. If they are turned off they are reading too deep into it.


----------



## Highbeam

BrotherBart said:


> Along about 1,800 degrees I would disagree.


 
That's a myth. First off, there is no way to know what temperature the catalyst is running at. Secondly, the stove is designed to prevent that from happening. Thirdly, we know that 95% (I believe was the quote) of cat failures are from door gasket leaks. Lastly, 10 year cat warranty.

Have you ever seen a BK cat overheated to failure? How did it happen?


----------



## tarzan

Dieselhead said:


> I'm a first year cat burner and am impressed with the lack of babysitting. If they are turned off they are reading too deep into it.



Yelp, Rossco should pay more attention to the rest of the threads on the main hearth forum while scrolling down to find this one. 

We're definately not the only ones having detailed conversations over the small things. I doubt our conversations are hurting stove sales though.


----------



## Highbeam

RustyShackleford said:


> Disagree.  One thing I dislike about shoveling into a bucket is that it creates a cloud of ash that I think deposits around the room.    The ash pan containsall that mess.   It takes me about 30 sec to "screw around trying to sift" enough ashes to fill the pan.    And I typically take about 3 pan loads when I do empty the stove.   I could wait longer - and so more ashpan-fulls - but I like having more room in the firebox to load her up.


 
There has always been a pretty strong ash pan vs. no ash pan debate on this forum. Not unlike the cat vs. noncat debate. We won't change each other's mind but I don't have an ash cloud problem, don't want to waste time sifting ash through a little hole, and don't want to waste time making several trips outside in the rain to dump the tiny ashpan. I'm a shovel and bucket guy until I get a stove with an ash pan at least as big as a bucket and with a dump system that is way less labor intensive that a tiny hole.

Not really a BK issue.


----------



## BrotherBart

Highbeam said:


> That's a myth.



One perpetuated by Blaze King themselves.

"Catalytic combustor temperatures above 1800F (1000C) will shorten the life of a combustor. Combustor temperatures between 1400F and 1600F (760C - 870C) are common, but operating temperatures between 700F and 1400F (371C - 760C) are recommended."


----------



## Highbeam

BrotherBart said:


> One perpetuated by Blaze King themselves.
> 
> "Catalytic combustor temperatures above 1800F (1000C) will shorten the life of a combustor. Combustor temperatures between 1400F and 1600F (760C - 870C) are common, but operating temperatures between 700F and 1400F (371C - 760C) are recommended."


 
Yet they don't tell you how to measure this temperature, how to control it, or whether it has any bearing on your warranty. Instead the VP comes on this site telling us to run it really hot for an hour each week. The stove design allows us to run this stove with minimal fuss about mythical temperature thresholds.

Certainly, there is a maximum stove top temp or a temp at which parts start to glow also, just about everything has a maximum safe temperature but getting those things that hot isn't always something we need to worry about. My computer screen will burst into flames at 1000 degrees!


----------



## RustyShackleford

BrotherBart said:


> One perpetuated by Blaze King themselves.
> 
> "Catalytic combustor temperatures above 1800F (1000C) will shorten the life of a combustor. Combustor temperatures between 1400F and 1600F (760C - 870C) are common, but operating temperatures between 700F and 1400F (371C - 760C) are recommended."



Actually, it's also perpetuated by other stove mfg'ers (e.g. Dutchwest) and by the cat manufacturers.   I've been reading (and ignoring) it for years.

I can say that on a number of occasions, I have seen the cat thermometer needle pegged beyond the 2000 degree reading, and that, heading into my 6th burning season (with my BK with stainless-steel cat), the thing is still working just fine.   Dunno if a ceramic cat would have tolerated this less well or not.  (I replaced the dumbed-down "Inactive/"Active" thermometer with the one with actual temperature readings).

I am also confused about people saying you can't really tell how hot the cat is.   Seems like the thermometer works pretty well; yes, I understand it's just a steel spring, but I still imagine it's accurate to within 100 degrees or so.    The main problem I have with it - and I'd seek guidance on this - is that the "zero" seems to keep drifting; that is, with a cold stove, the needle is well below the bottom end of the scale.   I'll loosen the nuts and adjust it, but after not that many burning cycles, it has drifted again.   Wonder if somehow I'm adjusting it incorrectly ...


----------



## BrotherBart

Your room temp, and therefore the temp of the stove, is seldom zero I would guess.


----------



## RustyShackleford

webby3650 said:


> You access the bypass adjustment through the flue collar. I wouldn't worry too much with it, it seals pretty good on the gasket even if it doesn't latch. Next time you clean the flue take a look at it.


I know. I've never understood the point, really, of that last little "clunk when you push the lever a little farther.   Looking at it through the flue collar, it looks like the bypass door actually slides horizontally a fraction of an inch when you do that.  And does tightening the nut just mean you have to push a little harder to get the clunk, and if so, what's the point ?


----------



## Parallax

RustyShackleford said:


> I know. I've never understood the point, really, of that last little "clunk when you push the lever a little farther.   Looking at it through the flue collar, it looks like the bypass door actually slides horizontally a fraction of an inch when you do that.  And does tightening the nut just mean you have to push a little harder to get the clunk, and if so, what's the point ?



The "clunk" locks the bypass closed so all the smoke has to go through the cat. If you don't lock it, some of the smoke is going to go straight up the flue. If the bypass door isn't tight when locked, you'll get leakage. That's why it's important to have it adjusted properly. (I know this only because Chris recently walked me through how to adjust mine.) You don't want it so tight that when the stove heats you can't lock it (given the expansion of metal).


----------



## RustyShackleford

BrotherBart said:


> Your room temp, and therefore the temp of the stove, is seldom zero I would guess.


I don't mean "zero degrees", silly, though I suppose I could have worded it better.   What I mean is, the bottom end of the scale (on the non-dumbed-down cat thermometer) appears to be about 60  degrees (2 small tick marks below the lowest large tick mark, which is below the large tick mark labeled "200").   So I'd like to set the needle near that lowest small tick mark when the stove is dead cold.   But it's not; it'll drift to where it's a couple hunrded degrees' worth below there - far enough that the 500 degree reading (where you want to engage cat) is WAY off.


----------



## BKVP

The best part of this discussion is the many points made by each of you with regard to manuals, instructions and use.  These observations do pay dividends in better manuals, so thank you all.
Ceramic substrates do not tolerate as much heat as the stainless.  However, even stainless has the threshold temp at which point the wash coat (which is applied before precious metals) can peel away and take the metals with them.
It should be noted the ceramic cats do hold temps longer and more consistently than stainless.  Stainless do heat up quicker by an average of 10-15 minutes in our studies.  Yet their thinner construction allows them to cool sooner, with less mass.
As for how hot can you burn them and can you over fire, 1800 is very hot to a ceramic cat and 2000 is very hot to a stainless cat, but BOTH work just fine in 99% of applications.  If someone lived in SE Alaska and had wood that was not optimal in moisture content due to late harvest, lack of tarps etc., a stainless cat would be slightly better to deal with that moisture.  As for reading the temps, years ago we had the standard cat probes with the temperature indicators.  Our phones rang off the hook each time the reading dropped 100 degrees.  I kid you not, when we went to the active and inactive marks, the calls CEASED.  And yes, the thermostat will slam shut if a stove begins to over fire to the point where it may be damaged.  Very few owners burn their stoves as hot as possible that often.  Our suggestion to burn it on "high" is predicated upon the issue of the build up of creosote in the firebox due to shoulder season heating.  A good hot fire can keep both the firebox clean and the combustor clean.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BURN IT ON HIGH FOR AN HOUR EACH WEEK SO LONG AS THE BUILD UP IS NOT ACCUMULATING. 
The warranty on our cats, by Federal (current law) is 3 years plus an additional 3 years prorated (not required by same law).  Due to extremely low warranty claims (extremely isn't extreme enough), we started a PROMOTION in March of 2012, where the OEM combustor (the one in the stove when new) has a 10 year, 100% warranty.  I want to clarify this is an ongoing promotion and until either the law changes or we have an issue, it will continue.

For those of you folllowing the stove design challenge, this was on CBS yesterday:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/calendar-week-of-november-3/
I'm off to NY, so all of you play nice while I head East!


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> And yes, the thermostat will *slam* shut if a stove begins to over fire to the point where it may be damaged



Slam might be a little bit to aggressive a word to use here Chris.
It will slowly close some but from my observations it never closed on 3. Now maybe I did not let it run on 3 long enough for that to happen..but she was hot.
I have seen it close on 2.
Cheers!


----------



## tarzan

HotCoals said:


> Slam might be a little bit to aggressive a word to use here Chris.
> It will slowly close some but from my observations it never closed on 3. Now maybe I did not let it run on 3 long enough for that to happen..but she was hot.
> I have seen it close on 2.
> Cheers!



I seem to recall something in my manual about the draft control closing in case of a thermostat failure so this leads me to believe there must be some type of fail safe built into the thermostat.


----------



## Highbeam

RustyShackleford said:


> I am also confused about people saying you can't really tell how hot the cat is.   Seems like the thermometer works pretty well; yes, I understand it's just a steel spring, but I still imagine it's accurate to within 100 degrees or so.


 
I'm confused why you think that everyone has gone and replaced the OEM cat meter with a numbered one like you have or even a thermocouple. If BK supplied a numbered cat meter then yes, we would know how hot it is and could verify that the stove is operating within the cat manufacturer's parameters. I propose that they decided that this monitoring is not necessary and removed the capability from the production stoves. There are lots of things done in the lab during development.


----------



## HotCoals

tarzan said:


> I seem to recall something in my manual about the draft control closing in case of a thermostat failure so this leads me to believe there must be some type of fail safe built into the thermostat.


If the bi-metal coil itself should happen to break it will close.
It will close just from the weight of the flapper when that happens.


----------



## tarzan

HotCoals said:


> If the bi-metal coil itself should happen to break it will close.
> It will close just from the weight of the flapper when that happens.



Ok. Just seen Rustys pics on the faulty thermostat thread. The pic of the inside of the thermostat was great.


----------



## becasunshine

Dieselhead said:


> I'm a first year cat burner and am impressed with the lack of babysitting. If they are turned off they are reading too deep into it.



Yes.  This.  I am impressed as well.  Fill her up, fire her off, turn it down when the dog demands to go outside because it's too warm in the house.

Enjoy.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> What about loading the stove while the cat is still active?
> 
> Shoulder season! Was 25f here last night but the high today is supposed to be around 60f, so I misjudged my burn time when I loaded the stove last night and need about 3 more hours of heat than I'm going to get. So would it be ok to open the bypass and throw a couple pieces in with the cat probe thermometer on the first small line in active or should I wait until it is inactive to open the door?



Uh oh.  I have opened the bypass door and added wood several times when the CAT was in the active range.  After loading, I closed the stove door, let the new wood char a bit, made sure the CAT thermometer was in the active range, and closed the bypass door.

What else would one do???


----------



## rdust

becasunshine said:


> Uh oh.  I have opened the bypass door and added wood several times when the CAT was in the active range.  After loading, I closed the stove door, let the new wood char a bit, made sure the CAT thermometer was in the active range, and closed the bypass door.
> 
> What else would one do???



You're doing fine, nothing to change or worry about.


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> Uh oh.  I have opened the bypass door and added wood several times when the CAT was in the active range.  After loading, I closed the stove door, let the new wood char a bit, made sure the CAT thermometer was in the active range, and closed the bypass door.
> 
> What else would one do???



I dunno! Didn't get an answer. I have read that it's not good to cool the cat fast or open the door until the end of a burn cycle. 

On the other hand, there are some that reload while the cat is still active so I was hoping to find out how and why from those with more experience.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> I dunno! Didn't get an answer. I have read that it's not good to cool the cat fast or open the door until the end of a burn cycle.
> 
> On the other hand, there are some that reload while the cat is still active so I was hoping to find out how and why from those with more experience.


 
The cat stays active for a long long time at the tail end of the burn. Way after most folks need more heat and are ready for a reload. In fact, I propose that to keep a fire going without having to relight every load from scratch that you must reload when the cat meter is still in the active range.


----------



## rdust

Highbeam said:


> The cat stays active for a long long time at the tail end of the burn. Way after most folks need more heat and are ready for a reload. In fact, I propose that to keep a fire going without having to relight every load from scratch that you must reload when the cat meter is still in the active range.



x2

At the end of the burn I don't really consider the cat active since it's not really burning "smoke".  I look at it as the stoves internal temp/cat temp is still hot enough to allow the cat to light off if you directed smoke into it.(a 200-250 stove top temp shows an "active" cat)  People are putting way to much thought into running these stoves.  They're a dream to burn, sit back and enjoy them!


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP - if your headed to NY, please bring my princess ultra - all black lol, the stove should be coming in this week.


----------



## tarzan

rdust said:


> x2
> 
> At the end of the burn I don't really consider the cat active since it's not really burning "smoke".  I look at it as the stoves internal temp/cat temp is still hot enough to allow the cat to light off if you directed smoke into it.(a 200-250 stove top temp shows an "active" cat)  People are putting way to much thought into running these stoves.  They're a dream to burn, sit back and enjoy them!



I agree it's not actualy active at the end of a burn but still hot enough to be active. Just wanting some reassurance that it didn't equate to being hot enough to crack if I open the door.

I probably am dwelling to much on some things. Guess it's still new and shiny to me!


----------



## jeff_t

That probe isn't exactly a precision instrument. Pull it out after burning a couple of months and it's a mess. I clean it off with a piece of emery cloth and recalibrate it once in a while, but it lives in a pretty harsh environment.

After a while, burning these stoves is a second nature-have a feel for it-seat of the pants kinda deal. Don't over think it.


----------



## tarzan

Ok, just loaded the stove about 3/4 full of Locust and Maple "cookies" since I got hold of some wood that was cut longer than I needed.

Hoping this will do us until near noon tomorrow.

Low should be around freezing tonight then around 60f again tomorrow. 

Trying to load just enough to last 19 hours is a dang good problem to have!


----------



## Rossco

7 hours into a burn and about 60% of the wood is gone. 

Remaining wood is glowing red and the door is 90% clear. 

CAT is around 11 o clock with the fans on.


----------



## webby3650

tarzan said:


> I agree it's not actualy active at the end of a burn but still hot enough to be active. Just wanting some reassurance that it didn't equate to being hot enough to crack if I open the door.
> 
> I probably am dwelling to much on some things. Guess it's still new and shiny to me!


I really don't get all this "active "inactive" talk. If the thermometer says its active, it's active. It doesn't matter what made the catalyst hot, hot is hot! Heat is what it takes to make the cat active. At the end of a burn the only element that's missing is smoke to burn. If smoke was introduced, it would burn, because the cat is hot. Therefore its active.


----------



## Rossco

webby3650 said:


> I really don't get all this "active "inactive" talk. If the thermometer says its active, it's active. It doesn't matter what made the catalyst hot, hot is hot! Heat is what it takes to make the cat active. At the end of a burn the only element that's missing is smoke to burn. If smoke was introduced, it would burn, because the cat is hot. Therefore its active.



Yeah I guess ur right but now what? Don't load it until the Thermo drops 'Inactive' ?

'Dammed it you do, dammed of you don't' situation. 

Wodda you do Webby??


----------



## blueguy

Rossco said:


> Yeah I guess ur right but now what? Don't load it until the Thermo drops 'Inactive' ?
> 
> 'Dammed it you do, dammed of you don't' situation.
> 
> Wodda you do Webby??



Open bypass, open door, reload, close door, char load, close bypass and enjoy. You're not going to hurt the cat unless you don't open the bypass before opening the door.


----------



## Rossco

blueguy said:


> Open bypass, open door, reload, close door, char load, close bypass and enjoy. You're not going to hurt the cat unless you don't open the bypass before opening the door.



Carbon copy of what I do. 

So what will happen if the by-pass is 'Overlooked' by mistake?


----------



## blueguy

It will lead to thermal shocking and the eventual demise of the cat.


----------



## Rossco

blueguy said:


> It will lead to thermal shocking and the eventual demise of the cat.



Oh ok. Not a CATastrophic failure then. 

The reason I ask is the wife piles wood in this thing when Iam not home. I will remind her of the importance of opening the by-pass. 

I see some stove like the IS have fail safe door mechanisms. Interesting stuff.


----------



## webby3650

Rossco said:


> Yeah I guess ur right but now what? Don't load it until the Thermo drops 'Inactive' ?
> 
> 'Dammed it you do, dammed of you don't' situation.
> 
> Wodda you do Webby??


Like was mentioned, if it needs wood then load it up! You are not going to hurt it at all.
This whole topic has done nothin but cause confusion in my opinion. BK used inactive and active to avoid confusion and undo alarm. It's all very simple to use!


----------



## tarzan

webby3650 said:


> I really don't get all this "active "inactive" talk. If the thermometer says its active, it's active. It doesn't matter what made the catalyst hot, hot is hot! Heat is what it takes to make the cat active. At the end of a burn the only element that's missing is smoke to burn. If smoke was introduced, it would burn, because the cat is hot. Therefore its active.



I don't concider it active unless it is burning smoke. The probe thermometer only lets me know when it can be.

No matter. I think we all can agree my question was just out of concern about opening the door while the cat is still hot.

I don't want to come across as Honest Abe here but if I cracked the cat on this thing cause I did something stupid there is no way I would try to claim warranty.


----------



## rdust

webby3650 said:


> Therefore its active.



I look at it differently, I view it as just a hot cat since it's not actively doing anything.  If the catalyst was "active" a chemical reaction would be taking place.  The only thing the temp tells us is a reaction could happen if smoke was introduced. 

In reality my view on this doesn't mean anything, and to be honest we're burning wood here so we've already spent too much time on the subject.


----------



## rdust

tarzan said:


> I don't concider it active unless it is burning smoke. The probe thermometer only lets me know when it can be.
> 
> No matter. I think we all can agree my question was just out of concern about opening the door while the cat is still hot.
> 
> I don't want to come across as Honest Abe here but if I cracked the cat on this thing cause I did something stupid there is no way I would try to claim warranty.



That's why you have a bypass so the cold gets routed away from the cat.  I'm on season 4, mine has a couple cracks here and there but other than that it's all there.  When I bought this stove I said multiple times I'd gladly replace it every year if I had to since the stove is such a dream to run.  I still feel that way to this day!


----------



## Highbeam

My cat is cracked. Once crack across each of the three cell blocks. Still works fine.

Oh and I just noticed a single little cell has a chip that fell out of it. Probably a quarter inch square!


----------



## jeff_t

Yep, most cells are cracked up to 3/8" our so back. Been that way for a couple years.


----------



## BKVP

Feel free to reload while cat is hot.  No worries...

Chris


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> The cat stays active for a long long time at the tail end of the burn. Way after most folks need more heat and are ready for a reload. In fact, I propose that to keep a fire going without having to relight every load from scratch that you must reload when the cat meter is still in the active range.


Yes


----------



## BKVP

kennyp2339 said:


> BKVP - if your headed to NY, please bring my princess ultra - all black lol, the stove should be coming in this week.


I offered beer!  No stoves...Delta would not let it as my carry on.


----------



## BKVP

jeff_t said:


> That probe isn't exactly a precision instrument. Pull it out after burning a couple of months and it's a mess. I clean it off with a piece of emery cloth and recalibrate it once in a while, but it lives in a pretty harsh environment.
> 
> After a while, burning these stoves is a second nature-have a feel for it-seat of the pants kinda deal. Don't over think it.


Best suggestion ever..."Don't over think it".


----------



## BKVP

Ok all of you turn off your computers and watch the game tonight.  You'll have smoke coming out of your ears if you are not careful!!


----------



## tarzan

I promise I didn't mean to cause confusion!

From my manual and posts here, I was confused!

rdust, x2 on a cat a year if that's what it took.

I got it now. Let's move on, sorry for the confusion.


----------



## tarzan

BKVP said:


> Ok all of you turn off your computers and watch the game tonight.  You'll have smoke coming out of your ears if you are not careful!!



GO COLTS!


----------



## Dieselhead

Thanks for chiming in Chris. And for the record I don't watch foosball it's for the devil


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> Feel free to reload while cat is hot.  No worries...
> 
> Chris



The 'Eyes' have it, this topic is adjourned.

Iam Suprised at the amount of cracked CAT's.

Off to work. This is how's she looks. 





Good night, god bless. See y'all in the morning.


----------



## BrotherBart

Typical manufacturer. Cat cracked? Log off and watch football.


----------



## Rossco

Watch football Ha Ha. I wish. Heading up 8000ft for another 12hr's in paradise. 

Enjoy!


----------



## HotCoals

tarzan said:


> I promise I didn't mean to cause confusion!
> 
> From my manual and posts here, I was confused!
> 
> rdust, x2 on a cat a year if that's what it took.
> 
> I got it now. Let's move on, sorry for the confusion.



You're on top of it .

I don;t think on the way down from a load that loading the stove with the cat probe reading 11:00 or less is going to hurt anything.
But the cat will get hit with a bunch of cool air when you open the door so it is good to think some about that.
Anything over 12:00 or so on the probe you should not need to reload anyways unless someones timing is way off.


----------



## rdust

BrotherBart said:


> Typical manufacturer. Cat cracked? Log off and watch football.



Not really anything "typical" about Chris.  You know he's the odd man out coming on here as a manufacture to represent his product.(Mike from Englander also does a good job)  I wish more manufactures would become active.


----------



## tarzan

Nobody going to "like" my go colts post. 

I realize Chris and Hot Coals could get beat up over it tonight, but the rest of ya!


----------



## BrotherBart

rdust said:


> Not really anything "typical" about Chris.  You know he's the odd man out coming on here as a manufacture to represent his product.(Englander also does a good job)  I wish more manufactures would become active.



Four have. Chris and Mike are still in the business but fyrebug, SBI, got a job out of the business. The other guy just got tired of being hammered. At least two others just lurk.


----------



## BKVP

Go Colts!


----------



## RustyShackleford

blueguy said:


> Open bypass, open door, reload, close door, char load, close bypass and enjoy. You're not going to hurt the cat unless you don't open the bypass before opening the door.


Exacto-mundo; I have NEVER worried about reloading the stove while the cat is still active.   I'm not even sure charring the load _is_ that important; my understanding was the main reason was in case there's something unwholesome near the surface of the wood, that would damage the cat if it wasn't allowed to burn off and go directly up the chimney - most likely moisture (even surface moisture on otherwise dry wood, e.g. recent rain or snow).

I agree that people seem to be worrying WAY too much about this stuff, and that such talk (not necessarily _here_) might be a reason that lots of  people seem to be afraid of buying a catalytic stove.


----------



## RustyShackleford

Highbeam said:


> I'm confused why you think that everyone has gone and replaced the OEM cat meter with a numbered one like you have ...


Good point, yeah.   But actually I don't think the specific temp _is_ that important - just knowing if you're hot enough to be active, mainly.  I think we've pretty much decided here that you don't need to worry too much about the cat getting too hot (in a catalytic stove, at least).  I replaced my thermometer mainly because the OEM "Inactive/Active" one had gotten so crufty I could barely see the markings.



> I propose that they decided that this monitoring is not necessary ...


Agreed - and they were probably right.


----------



## HotCoals

You see i don't really consider this "performance" thread to be just the basic info. Maybe that is bad on my part..i dunno.
But yes as long as the probe is around 10-11:00 on a cold start and I know the wood has been charred for 15-20 mins I shut the air right down and let her cruise without worry about cat stalls which mostly happen from the wood not out gassing enough. If I shut the air down at 9:00 I ccan get and have had stalls. Sometimes I'll let it go and then she will fire off latter on it's own but in the mean time there is considerable smoke coming out the chimney and i don't like that.


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> You see i don't really consider this "performance" thread to be just the basic info. Maybe that is bad on my part..i dunno.
> But yes as long as the probe is around 10-11:00 on a cold start and I know the wood has been charred for 15-20 mins I shut the air right down and let her cruise without worry about cat stalls which mostly happen from the wood not out gassing enough. If I shut the air down at 9:00 I ccan get and have had stalls. Sometimes I'll let it go and then she will fire off latter on it's own but in the mean time there is considerable smoke coming out the chimney and i don't like that.


Hotcoals,
Your specific experience relates to your specific application.  Draft, moisture content wood density, dimensions of cord wood and other factors influence specific applications.

Casual viewers and new stove owners will not always remember this point and will read in this thread yours and others experiences and expect the same.

I know I'm preaching the the choir, but you and others know from experience and performance attributes how to properly operate your stove and your expectations.

And then all that changes when the zip code changes.  I've  said it before but it bears repeating....you and others here have saved me many, many tech calls. For that I am indebted to you all.

Keep up the good work.....I may hire you all!


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> Hotcoals,
> Your specific experience relates to your specific application.  Draft, moisture content wood density, dimensions of cord wood and other factors influence specific applications.
> 
> Casual viewers and new stove owners will not always remember this point and will read in this thread yours and others experiences and expect the same.
> 
> I know I'm preaching the the choir, but you and others know from experience and performance attributes how to properly operate your stove and your expectations.
> 
> And then all that changes when the zip code changes.  I've  said it before but it bears repeating....you and others here have saved me many, many tech calls. For that I am indebted to you all.
> 
> Keep up the good work....*.I may hire you all!*



I have a lot of free time since I don't work a 9-5 anymore..just sayin'. lol

Great to have you around here!
My hat is off to you!

The BKK has saved me huge money when it comes to heating my house..even over the non cat BKK it is a big diff. Went from on avg 15 fc's to 10-11.
Also the house temp is way more even through the burn. To me the lower output over a longer time is the best part of it. Not 90f at one end and 65 at the other end! Cheers!

Now send me a new cat probe cause all the printing is gone..that should not be on a 4 year old stove.


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> I have a lot of free time since I don't work a 9-5 anymore..just sayin'. lol
> 
> Great to have you around here!
> My hat is off to you!
> 
> The BKK has saved me huge money when it comes to heating my house..even over the non cat BKK it is a big diff. Went from on avg 15 fc's to 10-11.
> Also the house temp is way more even through the burn. To me the lower output over a longer time is the best part of it. Not 90f at one end and 65 at the other end! Cheers!
> 
> Now send me a new cat probe cause all the printing is gone..that should not be on a 4 year old stove.



Everyone else is in bed and no one will read this....so PM me your address.  I have some Italian friends in your area that can do me a solid.


----------



## webby3650

BKVP said:


> Everyone else is in bed and no one will read this....so PM me your address.  I have some Italian friends in your area that can do me a solid.


Doesn't everyone wake up hourly to check this thread?


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> Everyone else is in bed and no one will read this....so PM me your address.  I have some Italian friends in your area that can do me a solid.


----------



## Highbeam

webby3650 said:


> Doesn't everyone wake up hourly to check this thread?



Pretty much. It's dark, raining, and the bk is humming along. What else is there to do?


----------



## 05ramctd

On here more than I am at work.  Good education on BK stoves. Plus some free entertainment.


----------



## Jeepman401

Just jumping in to say these stoves are amazing! After 15 years of burning in an old sears circulator stove I found out about these threw an ad in the newspaper. I was going to get a quadra fire but this first week with the BK has shown had I not seen that ad, I would have made a huge mistake.
My house is a small 550 sqft up plus 400 sqft in the basement... old construction. I had no problem heating it with the circulator...I even added a water coil to it to heat my domestic water. My problems where excessive amount of heat, excessive smoke, coming home to a cold home after work or having to drive home to load it up after 4-8 hours in the dead of winter. What the old stove did have was a bi-metal thermostat, like BK. So after looking at reviews online and the stove in the store I knew this was the stove to have.

Loaded the King yesterday at 3 pm, went to work at 6pm, then to the store after work. When I got home the house is within 2 degrees when I left and there is well more than half the wood left some 13 hours later. Amazing. This past week I have only loaded it 3 times, and not gone below 70 and not above 74F even with outside temp of 30 to 55F.
For the past 15 years I have been 55F to up to 90F in the house while being the slave to the stove. I am loving this stove. Thank thank BK!

Now that I have to out, I have dropped down to a 6in pipe then 45 into a straight 12in pipe into another 45 that goes into the clay lined chimney. Its a short basement but the chimney is in the center of the house. I used a dampener to throttle down the old stove because it could overfire...not a very airtight stove.
The BKK has been working fine as far as I can tell with the small pipe, wide open dampener and turning right off the reducer. Running just over 1.5 right now. Is the need for a 8in pipe just to run the King wide open?  I can 't see me needing a setting of much over 2 with fans on even in the dead of winter.


----------



## Rich2343

RustyShackleford said:


> Actually, it's also perpetuated by other stove mfg'ers (e.g. Dutchwest) and by the cat manufacturers.   I've been reading (and ignoring) it for years.
> 
> I can say that on a number of occasions, I have seen the cat thermometer needle pegged beyond the 2000 degree reading, and that, heading into my 6th burning season (with my BK with stainless-steel cat), the thing is still working just fine.   Dunno if a ceramic cat would have tolerated this less well or not.  (I replaced the dumbed-down "Inactive/"Active" thermometer with the one with actual temperature readings).
> 
> I am also confused about people saying you can't really tell how hot the cat is.   Seems like the thermometer works pretty well; yes, I understand it's just a steel spring, but I still imagine it's accurate to within 100 degrees or so.    The main problem I have with it - and I'd seek guidance on this - is that the "zero" seems to keep drifting; that is, with a cold stove, the needle is well below the bottom end of the scale.   I'll loosen the nuts and adjust it, but after not that many burning cycles, it has drifted again.   Wonder if somehow I'm adjusting it incorrectly ...





webby3650 said:


> I really don't get all this "active "inactive" talk. If the thermometer says its active, it's active. It doesn't matter what made the catalyst hot, hot is hot! Heat is what it takes to make the cat active. At the end of a burn the only element that's missing is smoke to burn. If smoke was introduced, it would burn, because the cat is hot. Therefore its active.


Webby if it's in a glowing state its a free 200' of heat. Just the way I see it.


----------



## RustyShackleford

Jeepman401 said:


> My house is a small 550 sqft up plus 400 sqft in the basement...
> 
> This past week I have only loaded it 3 times, and not gone below 70 and not above 74F even with outside temp of 30 to 55F.
> 
> Now that I have to out, I have dropped down to a 6in pipe then 45 into a straight 12in pipe into another 45 that goes into the clay lined chimney. Its a short basement but the chimney is in the center of the house.


Wow, if I understand correctly, you have a King in a less than 1000 sq-ft house.    That's an amazing testament to the ability of the BK to do long low burns.  Though, given all this talk about the necessity of a wide-open burn occasionally to clean out creosote and the glass, I'm wondering how you're going to handle that; wait 'tll one of those cold "Fargo" nights and open the windows, I reckon 

Your stovepipe setup sounds bizarre and not recommended.   (Could you perhaps post us some photos of it ?)   I guess if you're not having problems, that's good, but still, I wonder (and worry) about safety long-term.


----------



## Parallax

I'm beginning to get the hang of my Ashford. A good charring and then close her down (to 1.5 in my application). Easy, peasy. I still have some smell coming off the stove and need to do something about the draft. But the stove itself is awesome. 

On a reload, with the cat in the active range, how long should I burn to char the wood before closing the bypass?


----------



## webby3650

Parallax said:


> I'm beginning to get the hang of my Ashford. A good charring and then close her down (to 1.5 in my application). Easy, peasy. I still have some smell coming off the stove and need to do something about the draft. But the stove itself is awesome.
> 
> On a reload, with the cat in the active range, how long should I burn to char the wood before closing the bypass?


I run mine on high for 20-30 minutes after a reload. Then i rarely shut it down past 2. I don't have good enough draft to run it that low.


----------



## Parallax

webby3650 said:


> I run mine on high for 20-30 minutes after a reload. Then i rarely shut it down past 2. I don't have good enough draft to run it that low.



How soon before closing the bypass door? The full 20-30 minutes? 

I can run mine at 1.5 but we are getting some smoke smell off the top of the stove (I'm guessing through the hole for the cat probe). Would running it 2 possibly solve the problem?


----------



## webby3650

I close the bypass as soon as the cat becomes active. I let it run hot for a while, never really timed it. Leave it at 2, I think it'll help with that little bit of smell. I know the smell, I don't get it on 2.


----------



## HotCoals

Even from a cold start 5 mins in my pass is shut. Keep good flame for another 10 mins or so  till I'm around 10-11:00 on the probe then set to cruise


----------



## Parallax

webby3650 said:


> I close the bypass as soon as the cat becomes active. I let it run hot for a while, never really timed it. Leave it at 2, I think it'll help with that little bit of smell. I know the smell, I don't get it on 2.


So if it didn't go inactive before reload, you flip the bypass door shut immediately after you finish loading?


----------



## Parallax

HotCoals said:


> Even from a cold start 5 mins in my pass is shut. Keep good flame for another 10 mins or so  till I'm around 10-11:00 on the probe then set to cruise


Five minutes from a cold start? I don't know how you pull that off. When I'm at nothing but coals, it takes my stove at least 10 minutes to get back in the active range. I've not timed it so maybe this is off. Perhaps it's like a watched pot never boiling. Will have to time it.


----------



## HotCoals

Parallax said:


> Five minutes from a cold start? I don't know how you pull that off. When I'm at nothing but coals, it takes my stove at least 10 minutes to get back in the active range. I've not timed it so maybe this is off. Perhaps it's like a watched pot never boiling. Will have to time it.


5 -10 mins  with the proper kindling. It really does not have to be "in" the active zone..close is good. On the old BKK cats I think the by-pass closed automatically when you shut the door even.
To me the important thing is to char the wood good before setting your t stat to the level you want.
So is the wife back into the stove room when you have that bad boy cooking?

Closing the by pass as soon as you can heats the cat faster imo to get into light off mode just that much sooner.


----------



## webby3650

Parallax said:


> So if it didn't go inactive before reload, you flip the bypass door shut immediately after you finish loading?


Sure. Although I rarely ever reload with the cat active still. I run full cycles most of the year.


----------



## Highbeam

On a reload with the cat probe still into the active zone I know that the smoke coming from the wood isn't at 500 because I have a flue gas meter too. I wait until the cat meter says active and rising before flopping the bypass. Sounds like I could maybe do it sooner.


----------



## tarzan

I shut the bypass door as soon as it hits active. Cat probe usually gets to the A in active fairly quick once I close the bypass. Was stepping down draft every few minutes but here lately I just go straight to my setting of 1..


----------



## rdust

Many different ways to run these stoves, no one way is the best way for everyone.  I typically close my bypass when it's close to active, the probe has a lag(according the manual) so if it's close in reality it's probably in the "active" zone.  On a reload I pretty much fly by the way the fire is looking along with what type of coal bed I loaded on.  I burn on 3 for 10-20 minutes, 2 for another 5-10 minutes then 1 1/2-1 3/4 is where I usually end up.  This obviously varies some but it's probably pretty close to this on a normal basis.    

There has been plenty of times I've closed the bypass early, my stove has a tendency to get a blow torch type pull up the chimney if I don't position my splits just right.  If I leave any type of gap in the center the flames will rip through the middle of the stove and shoot right up the chimney.  I've had a time or two where the chimney pipe gets crazy hot and the stove is barely warm.  When I notice that situation now I just close the bypass and let it burn.


----------



## NinjaTech

HotCoals said:


> 5 -10 mins  with the proper kindling. It really does not have to be "in" the active zone..close is good. On the old BKK cats I think the by-pass closed automatically when you shut the door even.
> To me the important thing is to char the wood good before setting your t stat to the level you want.
> So is the wife back into the stove room when you have that bad boy cooking?
> 
> Closing the by pass as soon as you can heats the cat faster imo to get into light off mode just that much sooner.



I do the same. From a cold start I usually wait till the cat thermocouple reads about 350 and as long as there is good flame and everything is burning quick I will shut it. It will jump from 350 to over 500 in about 30 seconds. If I wait it out with the bypass open, it takes about another 5-10 min to get up to 500. I figure anything that could build up on the cat in 30 seconds will be pretty quickly burned off. I leave it on high till the cat gets to about 1,000 then dial back slowly to a cruise.


----------



## HotCoals

I will say this about the t sat though. once the stove is up and running well  sometimes I will set the stat to 1.75 and I can see the flopper is maybe 3/4 on a inch from closed. After 30 mins or so the t-stat will actually be closed or almost closed when the stove gets up to temp.
At least that works on mine like that.


----------



## becasunshine

Good grief what's BKVP doing in his icon picture this time???  

IS THAT A TURKEY??  (Can we cook that on the stove?)


----------



## BKVP

becasunshine said:


> Good grief what's BKVP doing in his icon picture this time???
> 
> IS THAT A TURKEY??  (Can we cook that on the stove?)


Who you calling a turkey?  Just drove up the Long Island Expressway.  Lord above, please get me back to old Walla Walla safely!!


----------



## HotCoals

Make sure you have some of their "tea"while you are there Chris..it might help calm the nerves..i hate the big city!


----------



## Rich2343

webby3650 said:


> I run mine on high for 20-30 minutes after a reload. Then i rarely shut it down past 2. I don't have good enough draft to run it that low.


Webby running on 2 how long of burn times do you get. And at what temp


----------



## Rossco

Fired her off on a load of old growth Tammy. The heavy hard stuff. 

Went off like Mt Saint Helen's. should be last time the door is unlatched until mid day. 

Been out of town all day. The wife just loves #2 on the stat. 

Dam it I love entering the side door and walking into a wall of hot, BK air. 

Forking loving it!


----------



## tarzan

Got guesstamating how much wood to load into the Princess the evening before a warm day down. Stove beginning to cool around 9 am when day time temps start rising.

More importantly, we can run the stove 24/7 if day time highs are around 55f. With the tube stove we wouldn't have a fire unless outside temps we're going to be around 40f. 

Keeping the electric furnace off during the shoulder season was a big part of my decision to purchase this stove and it is doing a great job at it!


----------



## webby3650

Rich2343 said:


> Webby running on 2 how long of burn times do you get. And at what temp


Haven't filled it up or used any hardwood at all yet this season. From what I remember last season I was getting 16-18 hours on a load at 2. Temps aren't really accurately measurable, the Ashford has a convection top. So it will read 350, and the steel inner top will be reading 650.


----------



## Poindexter

Wow,  first 24 hours of all temps below 0dF all the time and I love my Ashford even more than ever.

On my 12-13 foot straight vertical flue and chimney the stove really settled down when temps got to below freezing, shoulder season was fun and easy but actually kinda high maintenance compared to this.

Now that I have been at or below 0dF (-17C and colder) for 24 hours in a row I am just about done fussing over this stove.

Just like you guys were talking in the last couple pages, just open the bypass, open the door, load it up, close the door, double check the probe, close the bypass, walk away for twelve hours.  I think my cat has been active for 36 hours straight now.

One of the kids named the stove "Bouche" after the stove in the princess' castle in "Beauty and the Beast."  I'll have to watch the movie a little more carefully next time I guess...




5 second shutter at f/8, asa 200, tripod


----------



## HotCoals

cat stoves love it when it's cold outside! lol


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> Wow,  first 24 hours of all temps below 0dF all the time and I love my Ashford even more than ever.
> 
> On my 12-13 foot straight vertical flue and chimney the stove really settled down when temps got to below freezing, shoulder season was fun and easy but actually kinda high maintenance compared to this.
> 
> Now that I have been at or below 0dF (-17C and colder) for 24 hours in a row I am just about done fussing over this stove.
> 
> Just like you guys were talking in the last couple pages, just open the bypass, open the door, load it up, close the door, double check the probe, close the bypass, walk away for twelve hours.  I think my cat has been active for 36 hours straight now.
> 
> One of the kids named the stove "Bouche" after the stove in the princess' castle in "Beauty and the Beast."  I'll have to watch the movie a little more carefully next time I guess...
> View attachment 143406
> 
> 
> 5 second shutter at f/8, asa 200, tripod


 
Holy heck... shutter speeds, f-stops, and actual film! My old dusty pentax k1000 is about to be trashed. I don't even know if I can still have film developed.

At what % throttle are you running the ashford to get 12 hour reloads like that? Is it at halfway?


----------



## RustyShackleford

Highbeam said:


> Holy heck... shutter speeds, f-stops, and actual film! My old dusty pentax k1000 is about to be trashed. I don't even know if I can still have film developed.


I feel ya'.   But, he may not be talking about film.   Digital cameras compute exposure based on a certain assumed ASA; check the display next time you push the button halfway to auto-focus and all.


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter: Reminds me of Redcar Steelworks  Corus.

I just run it as per usual. When it warms up during the day we either open a window or tough it out. 

Warming the house is the key. Old Fir Timber frame.

The fresh, crisp, sole exploring -----C has not arrived yet. But it's in the post.


----------



## BKVP

rossco...is that a Dolmar or Husqy in your avatar?


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> rossco...is that a Dolmar or Husqy in your avatar?



Husky 555 Buddy. 

Are You burning Western Larch and Fir?


----------



## BKVP

North Idaho Energy Logs.  But I got 18 cords of maple cut up and stacked for the future...


----------



## Mr. Jones

Hey guys, not trying to butt in here, but I wasn't sure where to post a price check, and figured everything bk was the place to do it. Anyways, got to check out a few models for the first time in person at a place called ranch n home. They were asking 2,800 for what looked like a bare bones princess insert. "Didn't see any gold trim". I live about an hour away from where they make these things in walla walla, so I was thinking maybe the price would be a tiny bit less without the shipping of a 500 pound monster across country. I could be wrong though. Too bad I can't just buy directly from the dealer. 
The only way I could get it cheaper would be to find a dealer in oregon which is close here so I could skip on the taxes. I'll search around here for current prices everywhere.


----------



## Parallax

Sounds expensive to me. I think I paid less than that for my Ashford 30 in enamel finish with fan kit (if I'm remembering right). Can't find the breakdown. I paid a total of $4,945 plus sales tax of 430.22 for a total of $5,375.22. That included the stove, blower, double wall pipe from the stove to my 9 foot ceiling, and enough chimney to get the required height (22 foot total, inside and out), plus a very expert installation. It also included the OAK as part of the installation. The stove pipe is metalbestos. 

Looks like they're now going to try to add another section to increase my draft. I don't know if they'll want to charge me extra. The proposal wasn't specific other than promising a good result so I could squalk if they try. But they're good guys; I'm sure we'll work out something that's seems fair to all concerned.


----------



## webby3650

Parallax said:


> Sounds expensive to me. I think I paid less than that for my Ashford 30 in enamel finish with fan kit.


I don't think so. 
$2,800 sounds right on if that included the panels and blower.


----------



## Parallax

webby3650 said:


> I don't think so.
> $2,800 sounds right on if that included the panels and blower.



Forget what I said above. I defer to Webby. He knows a million times what I know about the stoves and their cost.


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> North Idaho Energy Logs.  But I got 18 cords of maple cut up and stacked for the future...



Thought IDE seen you post about burning Tamarack. Ah well maybe it was someone else.


----------



## BKVP

For the last 3 years only North Idaho Energy Logs.

I travel 100 a year with Delta so my wife likes the NIELS.  

HAPPY WIFE...HAPPY LIFE!


----------



## Mr. Jones

quote="webby3650, post: 1801008, member: 6398"]I don't think so.
$2,800 sounds right on if that included the panels and blower.[/quote]
U
Pretty sure it was surround and blower included. They also had 2 non insert princesses, and one sirrocco. I think the sirrocco was actually more at 3,100, or that could have been one of the free standing princess models. Can't remember. It was nice being able to see them in person, instead of just online, and getting to check out how the cat engages "pulled the lever with my head in the stove", and to see the box sizes of blaze king, and 3 other makers. I was kind of suprised at how small the boxes are now days, coming from the 82 blaze king king monster wood eater.


----------



## Parallax

I've run out of my 15% wood. The stuff in my woodshed, with a fresh split, shows a moisture content of 24.5%. Is that too green to burn in the Ashford? If not, should I run it hotter to prevent creosote buildup? Or do I need to go out and buy duralogs or something of that nature?


----------



## Rossco

Parallax said:


> I've run out of my 15% wood. The stuff in my woodshed, with a fresh split, shows a moisture content of 24.5%. Is that too green to burn in the Ashford? If not, should I run it hotter to prevent creosote buildup? Or do I need to go out and buy duralogs or something of that nature?



Yeah you gonna need to be selective. Are you sure you have no sub 20% wood to get the fire hot?


----------



## Highbeam

Parallax said:


> I've run out of my 15% wood. The stuff in my woodshed, with a fresh split, shows a moisture content of 24.5%. Is that too green to burn in the Ashford? If not, should I run it hotter to prevent creosote buildup? Or do I need to go out and buy duralogs or something of that nature?



All you've got is 25% water wood? The burn season has just begun. With a cat stove, I'd be considering those Neil's mentioned above. Non cats have lots of drawbacks but one benefit is the ability to burn less desirable firewood.


----------



## Parallax

Would have to split and measure every piece to find its moisture content. How low does it need to be?


----------



## Rossco

Parallax said:


> Would have to split and measure every piece to find its moisture content. How low does it need to be?



Under 20% is good. 

I do that, when I get wood from the pile I will split the larger pieces and check em out.  14-18% on the last three bags worth.


----------



## Poindexter

FWIW I paid about 4200 for my Ashford 30 with the fan kit and another 150 for the delivery guys to bring it upstairs.  Shipping to Alaska is crazy expensive, butter (also shipped up from the lower 48) was up to $6/ pound a couple years ago.

I haven't tried wood with MC over 16% in my Ashford 30 yet.  16% is OK but the 13% MC as called for in the manual is "better".  I don't have hard data like x number of BTUs for y amount of hours and so on, but imagine a 1969 whatever muscle car that needs the carb cleaned out and new points and plugs and wires.  Getting from 16 to 13% MC is the same as before and after.  Might only be worth a couple tenths in the quarter mile, but it just runs noticeably better.

I will try some 20% MC in my Ashford when I find some.

ASA 200 was/is a setting my digital SLR.  Its actually ISO200, but this in one place where the metric people just went with the existing imperial standard.  I learned to shoot on slide film and I really really miss shooting Fuji Provia at ASA 100, but I am not going back to analogue.  I would need a much more expensive DSLR to get a ISO100 setting.


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter said:


> FWIW I paid about 4200 for my Ashford 30 with the fan kit and another 150 for the delivery guys to bring it upstairs.  Shipping to Alaska is crazy expensive, butter (also shipped up from the lower 48) was up to $6/ pound a couple years ago.
> 
> I haven't tried wood with MC over 16% in my Ashford 30 yet.  16% is OK but the 13% MC as called for in the manual is "better".  I don't have hard data like x number of BTUs for y amount of hours and so on, but imagine a 1969 whatever muscle car that needs the carb cleaned out and new points and plugs and wires.  Getting from 16 to 13% MC is the same as before and after.  Might only be worth a couple tenths in the quarter mile, but it just runs noticeably better.
> 
> I will try some 20% MC in my Ashford when I find some.
> 
> ASA 200 was/is a setting my digital SLR.  Its actually ISO200, but this in one place where the metric people just went with the existing imperial standard.  I learned to shoot on slide film and I really really miss shooting Fuji Provia at ASA 100, but I am not going back to analogue.  I would need a much more expensive DSLR to get a ISO100 setting.



Mines just lit off like a supernova. 

Anything under 20% will burn great. I haven't seen any moisture bubbles from any of the 20% stuff. It might slow the first hour down but she gets a handle on it and its 'Good night Irene

I do know that 20% wood will run away and burn the house down. First season I burnt some 'Not so dry' Really really dead for a decade Fir and it wouldn't even light off. '


----------



## Woody Stover

I don't know what kind of draft you guys have but once a load starts catching, if my stoves spend any appreciable amount of time at WOT, the box will be filled with flame and the stove top will be glowing orange in short order. An hour and a half??  There would be a puddle of molten steel in my basement by then. Maybe your wood's not all that dry...


----------



## tarzan

Woody Stover said:


> I don't know what kind of draft you guys have but once a load starts catching, if my stoves spend any appreciable amount of time at WOT, the tee will be glowing orange in short order and the stove top won't be too far behind. An hour and a half?? You're kidding, right?!!  There would be a pool of molten steel in my basement by then. Maybe your wood's not all that dry...



I spent 1 hour on 3 with a little less than a half load and all was well. I think my draft is good to. Stove has spent most of the shoulder season with the line on the thermo knob pointing at the widest portion of the arrow head just below 1.


----------



## tarzan

Just my experience with a tube stove but I spent a season with a good mix of 18% to 24% wet wood and loved it.

But with the design of the BK and a wife with a sensative nose I couldn't imagine you could ever pull off burning any of that wood this season.

In reply to Parallax post above.


----------



## webby3650

My Ashford and my King both handled sub-par wood better than the non-cats I've had. I just leave the bypass open a little longer than normal. I've burned some 24% stuff here and there and it did fine. Just adjust your burning practices a little, and supplement with the drier wood.


----------



## Woody Stover

tarzan said:


> I spent 1 hour on 3 with a little less than a half load and all was well.


I later remembered that the BK WOT was done with the bypass closed. Still, on the Dw the baffle would be glowing orange, on the Keystone the cat scoop would, even on half a load. Both stove tops would over-fire soon after. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a wood-saving, clean-burning cat stove if you are gonna waste a load smoke-bombing the 'hood once a week with a big, stinky creo fire.


----------



## tarzan

Woody Stover said:


> I later remembered that the BK WOT was done with the bypass closed. Still, on the Dw the baffle would be glowing orange, on the Keystone the cat scoop would, even on half a load. Both stove tops would over-fire soon after. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a wood-saving, clean-burning cat stove if you are gonna waste a load smoke-bombing the 'hood once a week with a big, stinky creo fire.



Ahh, your just jelous cause you can't and we can


----------



## Woody Stover

tarzan said:


> Ahh, your just jelous cause you can't and we can


Oh, I could bomb the 'hood with creo stench if I chose to; Plenty of it in my cat stoves, too.  A little burns off when I'm ramping the stove up to temp with the bypass open. That's good enough for me. I don't want to run a ton of creo smoke through my combustor; It doesn't seem to consume it and I wonder if that will necessitate giving the cat a vinegar/water simmer sooner than I'd have to otherwise.


----------



## Highbeam

Woody Stover said:


> I later remembered that the BK WOT was done with the bypass closed. Still, on the Dw the baffle would be glowing orange, on the Keystone the cat scoop would, even on half a load. Both stove tops would over-fire soon after. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a wood-saving, clean-burning cat stove if you are gonna waste a load smoke-bombing the 'hood once a week with a big, stinky creo fire.


 
You must be forgetting one of the items that sets the BK apart from your off-brand products. The thermostat. We set it on high but before anything can melt, the stat is trimming back air. I suspect that part of the safety testing for any stove is full throttle testing to see what happens.  

I will admit that during my last full throttle self-clean run there was a lot of blue smoke making it to the chimney cap. The smoke was ripping through the cat so fast that the cat must not have had time to eat it all.


----------



## Parallax

Well, I'm going to try loading what I got and will report back on what happens. Will let it burn full open until I have to leave for work and then throttle down. Wish me luck.


----------



## Parallax

An hour later, I'm writing to say "so far so good." The wood took longer to catch. But once it caught, it began burning nicely. I ran it with the cat disengaged for a bit longer. Now I've got it on high with the cat inline. Getting just a bit of smoke, less probably than with the wood I had been using. And that smoke seems less bluish, so possibly more moisture. I've not yet determined how things will run once I throttle back or how much heat it will put out like this. Will update.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax, have your smoke issues been resolved? Do you still suspect draft?

Did you check a few splits with the MM before loading?


----------



## rdust

Parallax said:


> I've run out of my 15% wood. The stuff in my woodshed, with a fresh split, shows a moisture content of 24.5%. Is that too green to burn in the Ashford? If not, should I run it hotter to prevent creosote buildup? Or do I need to go out and buy duralogs or something of that nature?



Anything less than 25% on the meter will be fine.  Remember when we talk m/c we're looking at the total moisture content of the split, most people take the highest reading in the center and call that the reading when chances are if it's 25% in the middle it's less towards the ends.  There is also wet vs dry moisture content but we won't get into all that.


----------



## Highbeam

Parallax said:


> An hour later, I'm writing to say "so far so good." The wood took longer to catch. But once it caught, it began burning nicely. I ran it with the cat disengaged for a bit longer. Now I've got it on high with the cat inline. Getting just a bit of smoke, less probably than with the wood I had been using. And that smoke seems less bluish, so possibly more moisture. I've not yet determined how things will run once I throttle back or how much heat it will put out like this. Will update.


 
The thermostat could play a part in how wet wood burns. The firebox won't heat up as much for a given amount of air being injected so the stat will open further for any one setting. Your wood should burn faster with less output since it is boiling off all that water. It is entirely possible, due to the BK's design, that wood will appear to burn just fine since it is automatically bumping up the intake setting.

I have burned some wettish wood and found that the smoke emissions were quite white even when the cat temp and stove temp was very high. The water seems to pass right on through the cat and recondense into steam along with the smoke as it exits the chimney.


----------



## RustyShackleford

I've got a few comments ...

Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product.   But it IS an inferior (to BK) one.   I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK.   If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.

WTF is WOT ?

When talking about moisture content and thermostat setting, you guys need to remember that neither is being measured very precisely (so talking such specific numbers may be misleading).   I say this because it's well-known that the relationship, between electrical resistance (which is how most moisture meters make their measurements) and moisture content, varies with wood species (see the table in the link at the end o this post ); meters with species correction are probably very expensive (certainly not the $30 one I have).   As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf


----------



## Poindexter

RustyShackleford said:


> WTF is WOT ?


  Wide Open Throttle, might be other meanings too.



RustyShackleford said:


> As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.


 
I am pretty sure on correctly adjusted size 30 stoves, and maybe x the whole product line as the thermostat knob is turned clcokwise - hotter and hotter - a bit past the highest setting the thermostat knob should hit a hard stop as the knob is pointing to six oclock.

I remember adjusting mine while that thread was open, I was able to turn my knob to abolut 7 oclock before I got to the hard stop.

Alsom, flue/chimney height and ambient outdoor temps seem to make enormous differences in stove behavior.


----------



## Highbeam

RustyShackleford said:


> Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product.   But it IS an inferior (to BK) one.


 
It is an "off brand" for this thread which is specific about BKs. The poster was trying to compare their operation.

Further, the term, "off-brand" is not universally defined. It is subjective. Very much an off-brand in my part of the country.


----------



## tarzan

My thermo shuts at what would be near zero (if it had a zero) on a cold stove.

Knob stops at 3 o'clock

Yes, this would explain why I'm running at a lower setting than many.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> My thermo shuts at what would be near zero (if it had a zero) on a cold stove.
> 
> Knob stops at 3 o'clock
> 
> Yes, this would explain why I'm running at a lower setting than many.


 
That will mess with your head. So the "normal" zone is totally wrong for you. I get the cold stat clank at 1.


----------



## Woody Stover

tarzan said:


> I have read that it's not good to cool the cat fast or open the door until the end of a burn cycle.





Rossco said:


> Iam Suprised at the amount of cracked CAT's.


I think that's sound advice. Even though you've opened the bypass, it doesn't prevent fire box air from going through the cat, unless there was another door that closed the cat opening as the bypass door opened. If I need to open the door while the cat is still active, I open the bypass and then wait a couple minutes for the cat to cool before opening the door. Also, most of what I've read has said to burn in the load before closing the bypass to prevent relatively cool, moist exhaust from hitting the cat. I wonder if the guys that are opening the bypass, opening the door and throwing wood in, closing the door, and closing the bypass all within a minute are the same guys seeing the cracks in their cats? I haven't seen cracks in any of the ceramic cats I've run lately. Right now I've got a steelie in the Dutchwest. I can close the bypass with about 300 on the probe and it will light within 30 sec. I usually wait until 350 or so to get an almost instant light-off; I figure the less smoke I have going through the cat unburned, the less deposits in the cat. Sure, they will burn off when the cat lights but I think the ash may stick, and I'm guessing it won't just blow right out like fly ash from the fire box will. I want keep the cat functioning at the highest level I can before I have to eventually simmer it out in the vinegar/water solution when performance starts dropping off.


Parallax said:


> shows a moisture content of 24.5%.





webby3650 said:


> My Ashford and my King both handled sub-par wood better than the non-cats I've had. I just leave the bypass open a little longer than normal.


FWIW, the EPA tests are run with 20% _wet-basis_ wood (as rdust alluded to,) which equates to 25% on the meter. Like webby says, cook a fresh load off a bit longer before closing the bypass. You can't cook _all_ the moisture out, but you'll get rid of some...


Highbeam said:


> You must be forgetting one of the items that sets the BK apart from your off-brand products. The thermostat.


"Everything BK," including the fanboy.  You're talking about the thermostat they were putting in backwards for a while, right, and almost nobody noticed? Don't get me started... 


> We set it on high but before anything can melt, the stat is trimming back air. I suspect that part of the safety testing for any stove is full throttle testing to see what happens.


I didn't go back and find it, but I thought guys were saying it was running up to 650 or more WOT. Don't recall if they bailed out and cut the air at that point,and it would've went higher... No problem for a plate-steel stove but probably a little higher than I would run one if (when ) I owned one, without a better reason.


> I will admit that during my last full throttle self-clean run there was a lot of blue smoke making it to the chimney cap. The smoke was ripping through the cat so fast that the cat must not have had time to eat it all.


Yep, the cat needs time to eat the smoke, but I think creo smoke may be a different animal. It's already gone through a chemical reaction, cooled and been re-deposited on the walls of the box. It seems to me that when I've had creo burning off in the Keystone, even without the air open real far, the cat still wasn't able to catch it. Sure smelled like creo, not the muted wood-smoke smell you get when the cat's eating regular smoke. I'd have to observe the whole thing more closely to make a better judgement. And different stoves, so YMMV...


RustyShackleford said:


> Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product.   But it IS an inferior (to BK) one. I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK.   If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.


No doubt about that. If anyone is curious about the Dw, I'll swap for any 20 or 30, although I'd prefer an Ashford. Just PM me.  The cast box on the Dw is kinda thin and the panels are prone to warping...parts ain't cheap either. I got mine used about 15 yrs ago....don't know how it was treated previously. It has held up pretty well. The primary air control is cheesy, hard to dial in exactly what you want when running the stove low. That said, with the gasket replacement and seam sealing I did, I can snuff the cat if I want with this shoulder draft, if I don't burn too much of the load in. In colder weather, I would have to at least improve the primary air "flapper" system for better low-end control, but the stove might still be leaking too much air to be able to snuff the cat. That, I think, is where the thermostat is useful to possibly compensate for changing conditions as the load progresses but I saw a post, in the last few pages I think, where the poster said the 'stat didn't seem to be adjusting quite the way he thought it would...
With no backup heat, I'm glad I have the Dw to stick in there until I can address an air leak on the Keystone. I'll tell ya, I'm about done with these "seam stoves" and will be going to a plate-steel cat stove next. May or may not be a BK...  Casting quality on the new Dws may not be as good as what I've got, but as far as I know the Dutchwests are selling for a little north of 1000 bucks. Not sure you can get into a cat stove any cheaper than that. If I guy was to buy one and run it prudently, I think it might serve him well for a long time.





Highbeam said:


> It is an "off brand" for this thread which is specific about BKs.


I hope I don't get banned.  There's been a lot of discussion here about stuff that's not specific to BKs and several guys new to cat stove that may benefit. I've asked a couple questions about the BKs but haven't gotten the info I was looking for...


> Very much an off-brand in my part of the country.


We can get it all here, from BK to Buck. I guess that's why webby lives here... 
Excuse me, I have to go cram the stove full of chunks and uglies.


----------



## RustyShackleford

Woody Stover said:


> ... Dutchwests are selling for a little north of 1000 bucks. Not sure you can get into a cat stove any cheaper than that. If I guy was to buy one and run it prudently, I think it might serve him well for a long time.


Sure, mine served me pretty well for about 20 years.    But, I had to work fairly hard to have enough coals in the AM to be able to just throw some wood in there and relax.   With the BK, that's the case the next evening, never mind the next morning.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> That will mess with your head. So the "normal" zone is totally wrong for you. I get the cold stat clank at 1.



It will probably bother me now until I adjust it. Until then....


----------



## Parallax

tarzan said:


> Parallax, have your smoke issues been resolved? Do you still suspect draft?
> 
> Did you check a few splits with the MM before loading?



The draft is still a concern. The installer/dealer called yesterday. He wanted to come out but no one was home at the time. We're trying to set up a visit when he's in the area so it's not a separate trip. My home is 45 minutes from his location. 

It was late when I pulled the wood from the shed so I just took the largest split, which was something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better. Will check when I have time. 

When I get home tonight, I'll check the stove performance and post what happened. Could be anything from the cat crashed to an empty box with just coals. Before I left the house, the thermostat was down to 2 and there was no visible smoke coming from the chimney. The stove was humming along with the cat probe running just to the right of noon. Seemed like a perfectly wonderful burn.


----------



## Woody Stover

Parallax said:


> Sure, mine served me pretty well for about 20 years.    But, I had to work fairly hard to have enough coals in the AM to be able to just throw some wood in there and relax.   With the BK, that's the case the next evening, never mind the next morning.


This is the first time the little 2460 has been back in for a few years, and with the refurb, I'll have to see if it will hold a long fire in colder weather Just burning a load a day right now but we got several 50/30 days in a row coming now. Could it have been that yours was leaking enough air to really cut into the burn times? From what I've seen, I'm thinking it should be able to go overnight pretty easy on some decent White Ash, Red Oak or Hard Maple, even if it's not dialed way down. Lessee, 12 hrs in a 1.4 useable fire box, times 3 to equal the volume of the King...that's a 36-hr burn...damn near BK-esque. 


Highbeam said:


> If BK supplied a numbered cat meter then yes, we would know how hot it is and could verify that the stove is operating within the cat manufacturer's parameters.


The BK probe is just a re-badged Condor, so you should be able to eyeball it with a Condor and have a pretty good idea what the actual temp is. The fly in the ointment is that Condor apparently has recently changed the number display on the face of the probe, so who knows which one is correct? Maybe it was an attempt to compensate for extra temp off the stove that the old temp readout didn't account for?


----------



## tarzan

RustyShackleford said:


> I've got a few comments ...
> 
> Dutchwest is NOT an "off brand" product.   But it IS an inferior (to BK) one.   I had a Dutchwest for about 20 years before I got my BK.   If you can afford it, Woody, make the same change.
> 
> WTF is WOT ?
> 
> When talking about moisture content and thermostat setting, you guys need to remember that neither is being measured very precisely (so talking such specific numbers may be misleading).   I say this because it's well-known that the relationship, between electrical resistance (which is how most moisture meters make their measurements) and moisture content, varies with wood species (see the table in the link at the end o this post ); meters with species correction are probably very expensive (certainly not the $30 one I have).   As far as thermostat setting, I'm not sure how closely it can be compared among different units - I know that the knob was actually loose on the thermostat shaft when I received mine; perhaps there is a standard for setting the knob position (e.g. "on a cold stove, the flapper should just close at setting '1'") but I have not seen it - if they have a procedure in the BK factory, it'd be interesting to know.
> 
> http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr06.pdf



Good read on moisture meters. Just kidding!

The difference in species were in meg ohms so while there were many other variables such as grain twist, temperature of wood, user error, and more. I still think our cheap moisture meter readings are fine for general comparison. The stove is the final go or no go 

In fact, I think a cheap moisture meter should come with every new stove sold. It seems that just reading about using only well seasoned wood in the manuals is taken as a suggestion by many. Then these "EPA" stoves get a bad reputation as something to stay away from. Maybe, with m-m in box the point would get through, I dunno.


----------



## Woody Stover

Tried to put this quote in the previous post but it wouldn't work. 


Parallax said:


> something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better.


Stands to reason. I think you'll be OK.


----------



## Woody Stover

tarzan said:


> I still think our cheap moisture meter readings are fine for general comparison


I think the conversion factors for different species are usually only a percent or two, three max, so the cheap meters should give us something that's close enough.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax said:


> The draft is still a concern. The installer/dealer called yesterday. He wanted to come out but no one was home at the time. We're trying to set up a visit when he's in the area so it's not a separate trip. My home is 45 minutes from his location.
> 
> It was late when I pulled the wood from the shed so I just took the largest split, which was something of a monster, and split it again. 24.5% in several places. The smaller splits might be better. Will check when I have time.
> 
> When I get home tonight, I'll check the stove performance and post what happened. Could be anything from the cat crashed to an empty box with just coals. Before I left the house, the thermostat was down to 2 and there was no visible smoke coming from the chimney. The stove was humming along with the cat probe running just to the right of noon. Seemed like a perfectly wonderful burn.



Will be interesting. It would seem to me, if you can now burn higher moisture wood with no issues the draft may not be a problem.

Hope she's still humming along when you make it home.


----------



## Parallax

Ok, it's now 7:13 pm. I started the stove around 9:15 am. So we're at ten hours. Haven't touched it since I turned the dial down to 2 and left the house at 10:00 am. It's still active, the cat's at around 10 o'clock on the dial. When I first got home at around 6:00 pm, the dial was at 11 o'clock. So I'm bumping it up to 2.5. As best I can tell, there's still at least one or two splits in the stove. Not bad for Douglas fir. Perhaps it will do even better when the wood is dry.


----------



## Woody Stover

Parallax said:


> Ok, it's now 7:13 pm. I started the stove around 9:15 am.


Stove temp?


----------



## Parallax

Woody Stover said:


> Stove temp?



There's no way to tell. I have the Ashford which is in a shroud. That's why I listed the cat probe temp.


----------



## Parallax

Hey, now this is interesting. I kicked the thermostat up to 2.5 and the wood began to ignite. So I took it back down to 2, where it had been all day. Now it's 9:20 pm, a full 12 hours after I started the burn, and it's humming away just fine. For some reason, kicking it up and then lowing it back down smoothed out the burn when the cat was beginning (after 10 hours) to crash. Looks like the stove could go several more hours without a reload. 

It's not going to be a 24 burn this time. But we're still way over 12 hours, even with damp fir.


----------



## HotCoals

Parallax said:


> Hey, now this is interesting. I kicked the thermostat up to 2.5 and the wood began to ignite. So I took it back down to 2, where it had been all day. Now it's 9:20 pm, a full 12 hours after I started the burn, and it's humming away just fine. For some reason, kicking it up and then lowing it back down smoothed out the burn when the cat was beginning (after 10 hours) to crash. Looks like the stove could go several more hours without a reload.
> 
> It's not going to be a 24 burn this time. But we're still way over 12 hours, even with damp fir.



Yep you heated the wood up more and therefore more gas's were released. I have have seen that happen here.
After awhile though you will run out of gas though..lol.


----------



## Rossco

I get confuzzled a little when it comes to the required smoke output vs CAT Activity. 

So then, I should throw some of the Western larch bark on there? It is 4" thick and smokes like crazy!?!


----------



## tarzan

tarzan said:


> It will probably bother me now until I adjust it. Until then....



I guess I should have left well enough alone. Over torqued the Allen head set screw and broke my knob.
O'l well, guess I'll install the new one to stop at 6 o'clock when it gets here.


----------



## Woody Stover

HotCoals said:


> Yep you heated the wood up more and therefore more gas's were released. I have have seen that happen here.
> After awhile though you will run out of gas though..lol.


Yep, and with slightly damp wood it may have been going out. A little more air got it burning again. He'll have to watch it with the damp wood. He will think he has the air set right, then the wood will dry out some and the load will take off. Thermostat should counter that though to some degree, correct?


----------



## HotCoals

Woody Stover said:


> Yep, and with slightly damp wood it may have been going out. A little more air got it burning again. He'll have to watch it with the damp wood. He will think he has the air set right, then the wood will dry out some and the load will take off. *Thermostat should counter that though to some degree, correct?*




I would sat yes as long as the t-stat is somewhere in the normal range.


----------



## Stump shot

Parallax said:


> Hey, now this is interesting. I kicked the thermostat up to 2.5 and the wood began to ignite. So I took it back down to 2, where it had been all day. Now it's 9:20 pm, a full 12 hours after I started the burn, and it's humming away just fine. For some reason, kicking it up and then lowing it back down smoothed out the burn when the cat was beginning (after 10 hours) to crash. Looks like the stove could go several more hours without a reload.
> 
> It's not going to be a 24 burn this time. But we're still way over 12 hours, even with damp fir.



I need to do the same thing sometimes too. The wood I'm burning is around 9% MC so it isn't a wood problem. My thought would be it's the daily change in draft that effects it the most during the shoulder season.


----------



## Parallax

Thanks for the feedback. So many variables in this wood burning.


----------



## Ricky8443

Can anyone elaborate on the Blazeking Princess's Insert's ability to heat without a working fan during a power outage? I have a backup generator, but still curious to know what percentage of its ability to heat will be compromised during an outage. thx


----------



## rdust

Ricky8443 said:


> Can anyone elaborate on the Blazeking Princess's Insert's ability to heat without a working fan during a power outage? I have a backup generator, but still curious to know what percentage of its ability to heat will be compromised during an outage. thx



Most inserts don't heat well without the fans.  I would think you'd have to remove the surround during a power outage for the best results.


----------



## Ricky8443

agreed, just curious to know if anyone has tried this or has experience considering the large amount of exposed stove surface associated with this insert compared to others.


----------



## webby3650

I don't think you will benefit much at all by removing the panels on a princess. It's completely shrouded and will not throw much heat at all.


----------



## liquidskin

Hey Folks,

I'm new here and new to wood burning in general.  It's my first winter in my house which I bought in May, here in Hunterdon County, NJ.  I was lucky enough to buy a house with 2 stoves.  The house is a bi-level and the stove downstairs is a BK Princess insert.  The one upstairs is a less sophisticated The Earth Stove. Prior owner told me the BK is used primarily and then the Earth Stove for when its REALLY cold.  Told me the oil furnace hasnt been used in years.

I am working from home today, so had some time to get the BK going from a cold start.  I woke up to my living room being a chilly 57 degrees at 7:30 AM.  I got a few small splits fired up and loaded the stove shortly after 7:30. I didnt get it 100% full, but it was a fairly large load of wood.  A few minutes of good fire and i flipped the bypass and set the thermostat to the half way mark.  Put the fans on low and went to work.

As of 2:30, the cat is just about out of the active zone according to the thermometer.  The upstairs living room is 61 degrees, a 4 degree improvement. There's very little left in the stove:








I guess i was hoping for a longer burn time, as I leave the house 6AM and dont return till 7PM on weekdays.  This was only about 7 hours.  Is this typical for the insert?


----------



## HotCoals

The t stat might have been set just a little to high and too much heat might have went up the flue. Try just a little lower setting.


----------



## liquidskin

HotCoals said:


> The t stat might have been set just a little to high and too much heat might have went up the flue. Try just a little lower setting.



ok thanks, let me re-load and try again.. will report back..


----------



## Ricky8443

liquidskin said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> I'm new here and new to wood burning in general.  It's my first winter in my house which I bought in May, here in Hunterdon County, NJ.  I was lucky enough to buy a house with 2 stoves.  The house is a bi-level and the stove downstairs is a BK Princess insert.  The one upstairs is a less sophisticated The Earth Stove. Prior owner told me the BK is used primarily and then the Earth Stove for when its REALLY cold.  Told me the oil furnace hasnt been used in years.
> 
> I am working from home today, so had some time to get the BK going from a cold start.  I woke up to my living room being a chilly 57 degrees at 7:30 AM.  I got a few small splits fired up and loaded the stove shortly after 7:30. I didnt get it 100% full, but it was a fairly large load of wood.  A few minutes of good fire and i flipped the bypass and set the thermostat to the half way mark.  Put the fans on low and went to work.
> 
> As of 2:30, the cat is just about out of the active zone according to the thermometer.  The upstairs living room is 61 degrees, a 4 degree improvement. There's very little left in the stove:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess i was hoping for a longer burn time, as I leave the house 6AM and dont return till 7PM on weekdays.  This was only about 7 hours.  Is this typical for the insert?


What type of wood? Seasoned how long? I've been getting very short burn times as well with a brand new stove insert.


----------



## liquidskin

Ricky8443 said:


> What type of wood? Seasoned how long? I've been getting very short burn times as well with a brand new stove insert.



im cutting it a bit close with the seasoning, yet i do understand how important this is. i closed on the house in may, got 4 cords in june. not ideal, but couldnt have done more.  its hardwood, dont really know what kind.


----------



## NinjaTech

Ricky8443 said:


> Can anyone elaborate on the Blazeking Princess's Insert's ability to heat without a working fan during a power outage? I have a backup generator, but still curious to know what percentage of its ability to heat will be compromised during an outage. thx



I have been running mine without the fans so far this year. With the fans on this time of year it roasts you out of the house. (30s at night 50s day) also helps extend burn times a little. Doing half loads twice a day. Saving the fans for the single digit days.


----------



## Ricky8443

NinjaTech said:


> I have been running mine without the fans so far this year. With the fans on this time of year it roasts you out of the house. (30s at night 50s day) also helps extend burn times a little. Doing half loads twice a day. Saving the fans for the single digit days.


good to hear that there is some level of heating capacity without fans for the princess insert, thanks!


----------



## liquidskin

when turning the thermostat down, is it okay that i hear the "click" or does that mean i've gone too far?


----------



## rdust

liquidskin said:


> when turning the thermostat down, is it okay that i hear the "click" or does that mean i've gone too far?



The click you hear is most likely when the t-stat flapper reaches full closed.  For example mine "clicks" at 1 on a stone cold stove, when my stove is warmed up after a 20-30 burn in it clicks right around 1 3/4.  1 3/4 is where I set mine most of the time.


----------



## Rossco

Well it's here. Winter!

Gonna drop to a low of -24C or -12F on Monday. (So say the Weather Network)

We will see how this BK handles that! She's gonna be pulling a decent draft.


----------



## Highbeam

Did my second weekly burn out this morning with a full load of fuel. The stat works very well on my stove and is very obviously responsive unlike some others. Maybe my chimney's draft puts the stat in the proper operating range. The stat set at 3, stove temps climbed to 575 and leveled off. This week a lot less blue smoke was being spewed during the hour long burnout. Perhaps there is a benefit. I like the idea of the flue getting a blast of heat occasionally too.

The cat meter does indicate past the top of the active line though. That's four white ticks. Is that what happens with your cats during high output?


----------



## tarzan

I never pegged my thermometer on the half load, but close. Woody Stovers pics of the two Condar probe thermometers on pg. 20 of this thread does make me wonder what temps we are seeing though.

Did they change something about the coil or just the temps on the face? Quite a difference in the old vs new past 1,000f.


----------



## Parallax

My cat probe never goes past the top of the active range. Close to the top, the t-stat seems to kick in.


----------



## tarzan

Did my second burn out fire. Was going to wait for colder weather but was anxious to see how the stove would  handle it on a full load and then Highbeams post made me decide to go ahead and do it.

Stove loaded (to the gills) with <15% maple.
15 minutes after closing bypass Rutland thermometer on stove top right above cat read 525f  and cat probe was at third tick with intermittent smoke.

30 minutes into burn, Rutland thermometer showed 650f, cat probe was at 1/4 past 3rd tick, steady but light blue smoke.

45 minutes in, Rutland thermometer showing 750! Cat probe was about 1/2 past third tick. Steady smoke but clearing.

1 hour in, Rutland thermometer back down to 725f, cat probe very close to fourth tick but not quite there. I would say 4/5 past the third tick. Smoke very light.

Thermostat closed about a quarter inch every 15 minutes through the burn. Once I reach the one hour mark and turned the T-stat down it fully closed at around 1.8.

This was my second time doing the burn out fire and first time with a full load. Very different and I would say favorable results with the full.load vs half.


----------



## Parallax

Remember the problem I was having with Doug fir from my woodshed, cut this past winter. It was working alright. But yesterday I got a call from someone who was giving away some old wood they're not using. So I went to their place and worked hard to get some very large logs down a huge hill. This is about half of it. 

The wood is dry inside (like 17%, pretty consistently). But at the surface it's wet. Quite wet. We've had a lot of rain the last few weeks and some of the pieces have a bit of rot at the edges, allowing water to penetrate. So burning still requires an effort to dry it out near the beginning of each cycle. But once it gets going, it goes good.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax said:


> Remember the problem I was having with Doug fir from my woodshed, cut this past winter. It was working alright. But yesterday I got a call from someone who was giving away some old wood they're not using. So I went to their place and worked hard to get some very large logs down a huge hill. This is about half of it.
> 
> The wood is dry inside (like 17%, pretty consistently). But at the surface it's wet. Quite wet. We've had a lot of rain the last few weeks and some of the pieces have a bit of rot at the edges, allowing water to penetrate. So burning still requires an effort to dry it out near the beginning of each cycle. But once it gets going, it goes good.
> 
> View attachment 143776



I've had/have some wood like that. If I store it under cover the wind dries it quick. Don't know if the same would be true in your area.


----------



## Parallax

Maybe. It's wet here but if they're covered, the wind would likely help. I've thrown it in the garage, figuring it gets some warmth from the house. I've also been bringing a few pieces in the house and setting them at the foot of the stove.


----------



## becasunshine

BKVP, OUR SINCERE COMPLIMENTS.

When we arrive at this house typically on a Friday night and the house is cold.  We keep the heat on 50'F when we aren't here.  We need big heat when we get here and we need it pretty much now.

We fire up the Princess and within an hour, the fire in the stove is established, the house warming up nicely, and we're sitting down to dinner. 

We are in shoulder season, we need heat but we don't need big heat non stop.

Once this Princess is established, we can do just about anything we want with that thermostat.  The stove responds pretty much immediately.   We can turn the thermostat to low, and the stove burns on low  it doesn't go out, it actually burns on low.  We can turn the thermostat up and it responds.  I turned it up this evening to cook dinner on the stove top (that works well too!) and then we turned it right back down.  And down it went- but it didn't go out.  Right now she's humming along at setting 1.  Setting 1.  Still lit, still burning, CAT active, but not running us out of here.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.

This is an AWESOME stove!


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> BKVP, OUR SINCERE COMPLIMENTS.
> 
> When we arrive at this house typically on a Friday night and the house is cold.  We keep the heat on 50'F when we aren't here.  We need big heat when we get here and we need it pretty much now.
> 
> We fire up the Princess and within an hour, the fire in the stove is established, the house warming up nicely, and we're sitting down to dinner.
> 
> We are in shoulder season, we need heat but we don't need big heat.
> 
> Once this Princess is established, we can do just about anything we want with that thermostat.  The stove responds pretty much immediately.   We can turn the thermostat to low, and the stove burns on low  it doesn't go out, it actually burns on low.  We can turn the thermostat up and it responds.  I turned it up this evening to cook dinner on the stove top (that works well too!) and then we turned it right back down.  And down it went- but it didn't go out.  Right now she's humming along at setting 1.  Setting 1.  Still lit, still burning, CAT active, but not running us out of here.  I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.
> 
> This is an AWESOME stove!



Kudos to you or Hubbie for making the right choice but yell, thanks to BK for making the choice so obvious!


----------



## Rossco

I don't know if I could run my stove full pelt like you guys. Please talk me through it further with pictures and IR gun results (How about pictures of IR's  )

Anyhow it's getting a little nippy around here. (Bummer) 

BK seems to be holding its own. Still not the sobering -20C to -30C that's in the post.


----------



## HotCoals

I can't run full bore..noway!


----------



## rdust

becasunshine said:


> This is an AWESOME stove!



I've said it before, if someone can show me a better burning stove it would be on my hearth in an instant.  These stoves do what the users tell it to do, the control and how easily each burn is repeated is second to none.


----------



## Rossco

HotCoals said:


> I can't run full bore..noway!



Ditto. Although mine probably don't pour the air in like yours.


----------



## HotCoals

Rossco said:


> Ditto. Although mine probably don't pour the air in like yours.


i have a strong draft. When the stove is ready for cruise I can usually run on 1 all the time and I know for a fact the t sat on mine is closed at 1 and will not open even if the stove goes tob stone cold..well maybe just a crack at that point.
Now at night when the temps get down to 15f or below I might have to turn it up some to the point of a little flame to keep the house nice and warm. 
Don't have to do that often at all.


----------



## Parallax

So far the Ashford is doing a nice job keeping my 2650 square foot house warm. Hasn't gotten that cold outside yet. Might drop down as low as 30 at night. If I run the stove at 2, the house stays warm and we're getting nice long burns. When we're in the dead of winter, we'll see how it does. I'm guessing it will be great.


----------



## Stump shot

Good draft tonight 17 degrees with a 15 mph north wind blowing. Will see how it does on 2 tonight and no fan. May need to run the fan some toward mid week.


----------



## NinjaTech

Catalyst having its bedtime snack.


----------



## NinjaTech

Here is a question for everyone, how does log size affect burn time on low settings? Lets assume same weight of wood for both loads, one load is small splits, the next load is several much larger pieces. If using the same thermostat setting how will burn time be affected? Am I right in assuming that even though its thermostatically controlled, the small wood will be consumed faster?


----------



## HotCoals

NinjaTech said:


> Here is a question for everyone, how does log size affect burn time on low settings? Lets assume same weight of wood for both loads, one load is small splits, the next load is several much larger pieces. If using the same thermostat setting how will burn time be affected? Am I right in assuming that even though its thermostatically controlled, *the small wood will be consumed faster?*


Yes..more surface area per pound.


----------



## Rossco

Smaller pieces tend to be a little more dry. Or more uniform dry.


----------



## RustyShackleford

HotCoals said:


> Yes..more surface area per pound.


I don't think this is the main determinant.  I imagine the rate of burn is limited by the rate at which air (oxygen) can be sucked into the stove, which in turn is determined by both the opening angle of the air valve and by the velocity of air through the opening, the latter probably defined mainly by the strength of the draft.   Theoretically.   In real life, the smaller splits are probably going to be drier, so cat stall will be less likely.   But then there's the wonderful thermostat, which should even out some of these effects.   So I'm going to say that I think split size will have very little effect on low burns, assuming optimally-dry wood.


----------



## HotCoals

RustyShackleford said:


> I don't think this is the main determinant.  I imagine the rate of burn is limited by the rate at which air (oxygen) can be sucked into the stove, which in turn is determined by both the opening angle of the air valve and by the velocity of air through the opening, the latter probably defined mainly by the strength of the draft.   Theoretically.   In real life, the smaller splits are probably going to be drier, so cat stall will be less likely.   But then there's the wonderful thermostat, which should even out some of these effects.   So I'm going to say that I think split size will have very little effect on low burns, assuming optimally-dry wood.


lol
Put a load of kindling size stuff in and light it off and see what happens . But of course the amount of air will make a huge diff.
Surface area will make a diff ,that and more air pockets around the wood will also.


----------



## NinjaTech

RustyShackleford said:


> I don't think this is the main determinant.  I imagine the rate of burn is limited by the rate at which air (oxygen) can be sucked into the stove, which in turn is determined by both the opening angle of the air valve and by the velocity of air through the opening, the latter probably defined mainly by the strength of the draft.   Theoretically.   In real life, the smaller splits are probably going to be drier, so cat stall will be less likely.   But then there's the wonderful thermostat, which should even out some of these effects.   So I'm going to say that I think split size will have very little effect on low burns, assuming optimally-dry wood.



Assuming all the wood is properly dried. I had that idea too. X amount of air should burn X amount of wood. I guess it seems like in a perfect world it should work that way. In the real world I figured the small pieces would still go faster even with the tstat. My big reason for asking is just thinking in the future of splitting time, as long as I have enough time to let the large splits dry properly would big hearty pieces work better for longer shoulder season burns. Maybe I'm thinking too far in to it though and should just feed the thing and let the tstat handle it.


----------



## RustyShackleford

NinjaTech said:


> ... just feed the thing and let the tstat handle it.


Yeah, if you discount the whole argument about amount of air, and just assume a given thermostat setting (in a given installation) is going to keep the stove at a certain temperature, well then, again, split size should make no difference, because a given stove temperature corresponds to a given btu/hour heat output (again, for a given installation).so the same amount of wood will last the same time.   But again, I think those large splits are more likely to give cat stall - because of the smaller surface area, they might not outgas enough to keep the draft going.

But hey, do the experiment and let us know.   (If you're not afraid the wife will have you carted away to the "nervous hospital" if she sees you weighing the wood before you load the stove


----------



## Rossco

I have some 'Next Year' wood that has been split nice and square. It's already dry to burning I split it up smaller but another year won't harm. Lets say I can get 8 in the box like Jeff did. Should be interesting.

Roll on the 2015/16 BK thread woohoo


----------



## HotCoals

I know for a fact the t-stat won't make that much of a diff ..it is just not that reactive. Though it does work some.
Even with no flame the big wood will out gas way slower therefor it will last longer..it has to,cat stalls and all..not saying the cat will stall but way more chance of it.


----------



## HotCoals

If the t stat did open considerably more to let more air in that would correlate to more heat up the flue right..not good.

Right now I happen to be burning small really dry stuff.

I'm like 3 hours in and the hot spot near the probe is 550 ..18" up on my single wall pipe the outside reading is 210. My t-stat is compltely closed..it's running off the pilot hole as usual,once in cruise.
So if you double both numbers..1100 and 420...about a 3-1 ratio not bad. I  don't really know what that relates to as far as stove efficiency though and those inside temps are at best just guesstimates anyways.


----------



## NinjaTech

RustyShackleford said:


> Yeah, if you discount the whole argument about amount of air, and just assume a given thermostat setting (in a given installation) is going to keep the stove at a certain temperature, well then, again, split size should make no difference, because a given stove temperature corresponds to a given btu/hour heat output (again, for a given installation).so the same amount of wood will last the same time.   But again, I think those large splits are more likely to give cat stall - because of the smaller surface area, they might not outgas enough to keep the draft going.
> 
> But hey, do the experiment and let us know.   (If you're not afraid the wife will have you carted away to the "nervous hospital" if she sees you weighing the wood before you load the stove



Eh, I might get chewed out, but have been chewed out before. I only really get in trouble if I get caught with cylinder heads or intake manifolds in the dishwasher.


----------



## HotCoals

NinjaTech said:


> Eh, I might get chewed out, but have been chewed out before. I only really get in trouble if I get caught with cylinder heads or intake manifolds in the dishwasher.



I put my snowmobile clutches in there once..lol.


----------



## tarzan

And I get accused of over thinking things! Dang!

Anyway, wouldn't the larger splits need to be off gassing at about the same rate as the smaller splits on a given thermostat setting in order to hold the same temp.


----------



## shoot-straight

had my chimney swept for the first time since buying my ashford. i got it around the first of the year last year. about a coffee can amount of creosote up where my liner pokes out my masonry chimney. a little more than i was hoping for, but my sweep thinks a once a year schedule should work out ok, especially since it seems im getting the hang of how to run the stove and my wood quality is better. 

my hearthstone was once every 2 years sweep stove...and even then it was a coffee cup of creosote at the top lip. thats was it. but i guess thats because it sent so much heat up the flue! 

my chimney is a difficult and dangerous one to sweep. i simply wont make the "leap" off my roof peak to it. however i think i reach the cap and get a altered brush to the top to knock that buildup at the top down. another option is to build a "leveled" ladder that will allow me to clean it. its on a 10/12 roof.


----------



## tarzan

shoot-straight said:


> had my chimney swept for the first time since buying my ashford. i got it around the first of the year last year. about a coffee can amount of creosote up where my liner pokes out my masonry chimney. a little more than i was hoping for, but my sweep thinks a once a year schedule should work out ok, especially since it seems im getting the hang of how to run the stove and my wood quality is better.
> 
> my hearthstone was once every 2 years sweep stove...and even then it was a coffee cup of creosote at the top lip. thats was it. but i guess thats because it sent so much heat up the flue!
> 
> my chimney is a difficult and dangerous one to sweep. i simply wont make the "leap" off my roof peak to it. however i think i reach the cap and get a altered brush to the top to knock that buildup at the top down. another option is to build a "leveled" ladder that will allow me to clean it. its on a 10/12 roof.



With the Lennox Country tube stove I swept once after 2 1/2 seasons and that was litterally for the hell of it. Nothing in the tube but a thin layer of brown dust.

With the BK I excpect to clean annually but I'm not sending near as much heat out the pipe, so I'm good with it.


----------



## Highbeam

NinjaTech said:


> Here is a question for everyone, how does log size affect burn time on low settings? Lets assume same weight of wood for both loads, one load is small splits, the next load is several much larger pieces. If using the same thermostat setting how will burn time be affected? Am I right in assuming that even though its thermostatically controlled, the small wood will be consumed faster?



 I have the same gut feeling as others that a load of kindling would burn faster. Unlike hotcoals, my thermostat is very active and works well but the thermostat only controls intake air. When the load of kindling is outstanding rapidly it is doing so whether the intake is open or not. The cat will try and eat the smoke as the kindling load pumps it out in the fuel rich firebox.

Classic woofing recipe.


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> I have the same gut feeling as others that a load of kindling would burn faster. Unlike hotcoals, my thermostat is very active and works well but the thermostat only controls intake air. When the load of kindling is outstanding rapidly it is doing so whether the intake is open or not. The cat will try and eat the smoke as the kindling load pumps it out in the fuel rich firebox.
> 
> Classic woofing recipe.


How do you know how well your t stat works..you have had the cover off to watch it?


----------



## NinjaTech

On the freestanders can you not see the thermostat normally? On the inserts you can see it right though the slots on the right side without removing anything. I watch mine pretty frequently and it moves around quite a bit. On low where I normally run it the flapper is about an inch and a half open when cold, once warmed up it will close all the way down and just be open a crack. As the fire dies down it will slowly open all the way back up.


----------



## Highbeam

HotCoals said:


> How do you know how well your t stat works..you have had the cover off to watch it?


 
Yes, I've opened it up to lube the shaft and watch it. Don't tell BKVP. I also removed all of the stickers and that stubborn glue.

I see the stat function all the time from the fire getting brighter and darker as well. The thermostats work well. You have mentioned your tall chimney and excellent draft, and your setup seems to require you operate the stat slammed shut all the time which means the thermostat is not able to work. Just being able to run the BK with the stat at "1" is a great clue of your problem. You know, there is a maximum draft spec for these stoves. Maybe if you weakened your draft so that you could operate your stat in the "normal" range, you would be see that your stat can be very effective.

Don't all the freestanders have that normal range in "gold" on their stats?


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> Yes, I've opened it up to lube the shaft and watch it. Don't tell BKVP. I also removed all of the stickers and that stubborn glue.
> 
> I see the stat function all the time from the fire getting brighter and darker as well. The thermostats work well. You have mentioned your tall chimney and excellent draft, and your setup seems to require you operate the stat slammed shut all the time which means the thermostat is not able to work. Just being able to run the BK with the stat at "1" is a great clue of your problem. You know, there is a maximum draft spec for these stoves. Maybe if you weakened your draft so that you could operate your stat in the "normal" range, you would be see that your stat can be very effective.
> 
> *Don't all the freestanders have that normal range in "gold" on their stats?*




*mine don't.*


*I dunno I still get super long burn times no problem.*
I do have a damper if i need it but rarely use it.
The t stat can't be really reactive because then it could open to far on it's own. Kinda of hard to explain my position on it.
Some actually have a governor bolt going through the cover to try and prevent that.


----------



## Highbeam

So I took some photos of the reason for the cleanout burns and the temps I see. We all like pictures anyway but the first one shows the glossy creo from a week of long and low burns on the cold parts of the firebox. The top and cat are brown indicating the cat heat keeping the creo from condensing there. After an hour, my gauges say this. Oh the flue temps never get too hot, maybe 800. This same flue was run well over 1000 on a regular basis with my old hearthstone. After the cleanout burn, that glossy creo dries out and mostly flakes off. Hopefully I'm doing what I can to keep the stove healthy.


----------



## Highbeam

Here she is loaded up with fir. 2.5 hours into the burn and the STT is sitting at 400 where it should cruise for the next 20 hours.

If you look closely you can see the washers in the hinges to boost the door up for better gasket alignment.


----------



## HotCoals

I think some of the creo deal in the box is from air turbulence from the air coming in above the window and trying to go down into the stove.
I wonder how things would be if the air came in from below the window? Probably not practical in application. Glass might stay cleaner if the air wassh went up instead of down?


----------



## Highbeam

HotCoals said:


> *mine don't.*
> 
> 
> *I dunno I still get super long burn times no problem.*
> I do have a damper if i need it but rarely use it.
> The t stat can't be really reactive because then it could open to far on it's own. Kinda of hard to explain my position on it.
> Some actually have a governor bolt going through the cover to try and prevent that.


 
My stat's normal range is labeled from about 1.7 to 2.3. I also have that max range screw on the stat cover to prevent stickage in a full open scenario.

Try killing your draft with the key damper so that you need to operate the stat at 2 (50%) in order to maintain the same stove top temp as you currently get with the stat slammed shut (defeated) at setting 1. Once you are using the stat in it's operating range you just might see it doing the job it was intended to do. Now, I know that the stat isn't going to be as active as the draft control on a wood furnace but you should see a more even output as the BK designers intended.


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> My stat's normal range is labeled from about 1.7 to 2.3. I also have that max range screw on the stat cover to prevent stickage in a full open scenario.
> 
> Try killing your draft with the key damper so that you need to operate the stat at 2 (50%) in order to maintain the same stove top temp as you currently get with the stat slammed shut (defeated) at setting 1. Once you are using the stat in it's operating range you just might see it doing the job it was intended to do. Now, I know that the stat isn't going to be as active as the draft control on a wood furnace but you should see a more even output as the BK designers intended.


I leave mine at 1.75 at times and it will open some after the stove cools down some no doubt.
It does work some but to me the stove really does not need it.
I don't think my draft is overly strong.

I have the normal scale also but its not in gold.
When I was using the cover I went as far as to replace that bolt with a adjustable set up even.

When I'm in cruise i want as little air as possible to be going into my stove.
Now it it's really cold out the flapper might need to be open a crack and I have seen it close from there at a setting of 1.75. Seems the t stat likes to close better then open.


----------



## BKVP

HotCoals said:


> I put my snowmobile clutches in there once..lol.


I once forgot to pull out a bear skull before the wife got home..my wife got a new Bosch as a result.


----------



## HotCoals

BKVP said:


> I once forgot to pull out a bear skull before the wife got home..my wife got a new Bosch as a result.


----------



## NinjaTech

BKVP said:


> I once forgot to pull out a bear skull before the wife got home..my wife got a new Bosch as a result.



You sir, just won the "oddest use for a dishwasher" competition.

And I bet you could hear that scream for miles.


----------



## tarzan

I think that screw in the thermo cover also prevents us from getting flapper stuck. 

If you have the cover off you can see its possible to turn the draft setting up fast enough that the flapper flips over center without that screw in place as a stop.

On mine, if I do it a few times it will get stuck there at least once so even turning the knob will not bring it back


----------



## RustyShackleford

tarzan said:


> Anyway, wouldn't the larger splits need to be off gassing at about the same rate as the smaller splits on a given thermostat setting in order to hold the same temp.


Yes, but what I'm saying is that the stove may fail to hold the same temperature, due to cat stall - which, I believe, is due to not enough wood gasses (mostly methanol, aka. "wood alcohol", I believe) to keep the cat running.


----------



## RustyShackleford

shoot-straight said:


> had my chimney swept for the first time since buying my ashford. i got it around the first of the year last year. about a coffee can amount of creosote up where my liner pokes out my masonry chimney. a little more than i was hoping for, but my sweep thinks a once a year schedule should work out ok, especially since it seems im getting the hang of how to run the stove and my wood quality is better.
> 
> my hearthstone was once every 2 years sweep stove...and even then it was a coffee cup of creosote at the top lip. thats was it. but i guess thats because it sent so much heat up the flue!
> 
> my chimney is a difficult and dangerous one to sweep. i simply wont make the "leap" off my roof peak to it. however i think i reach the cap and get a altered brush to the top to knock that buildup at the top down. another option is to build a "leveled" ladder that will allow me to clean it. its on a 10/12 roof.


I clean mine every two years.   Oddly enough, since it's a vastly superior stove, I think the chimney gets a little dirtier than with my Dutchwest, where I was comfortable with cleaning every 3 years - it's probably because I burn a LOT more wood with the BK, because it's so effortless to keep a fire going 24/7.

My chimney is also on a 10/12 roof, but I have the advantage that it doesn't drop straight to the ground, but rather onto a 5/12 gable on each side.   I didn't worry at all when it was composition shingles, but I had a metal roof done recently, and it's scary up there now (even a little on the 5/12).   I got these shoes called Korkers (with the foam rubber pads) and they work pretty well.   Being a climber and comfortable with ropes, I strung an old climbing rope across the big 10/12 gable, and attach my harness to that with a prussik, which I can then slide along the rope.   I still actually use the rope (pulling on it with my hands) to get up the 10/12 part (as good as the Korkers are, they will not stick to 10/12).

But mostly, I just clean my chimney from below now.


----------



## RustyShackleford

tarzan said:


> I think that screw in the thermo cover also prevents us from getting flapper stuck.
> 
> If you have the cover off you can see its possible to turn the draft setting up fast enough that the flapper flips over center without that screw in place as a stop.


I think the same effect that allows the flapper to get stuck, also prevents the flapper from flipping over center.   I know mine does not have the screw in the thermo cover, and I've never had mine get stuck or flip over center.


----------



## tarzan

RustyShackleford said:


> I think the same effect that allows the flapper to get stuck, also prevents the flapper from flipping over center.   I know mine does not have the screw in the thermo cover, and I've never had mine get stuck or flip over center.



It's not exactly easy to flip it over center and get it stuck but doable without the stop screw. You just have to turn the knob up at the right speed for it to flip and stay. Even then, unless you turn it back down slowly it will flip back when you turn it down.

This is on my stove of course but I wouldn't think it to be very different than others.


----------



## Rossco

Well it's -9C out, 22C in the house and rising once the fresh reload gets established.

The wife near let it go out (I've been sleeping for Nightshift)

Coldest day of the season and near let the Stove go out tut tut tut.

Wasn't a happy bunny.

On the flip side it seems my house is holding heat rather thank leaking in & out.


----------



## tigger

No fire in the stove yesterday or last night.......the wife says "it's cold in here can we have a small fire"....... It's 73 in here?.....


----------



## tarzan

tigger said:


> No fire in the stove yesterday or last night.......the wife says "it's cold in here can we have a small fire"....... It's 73 in here?.....



Hold on.... The Polar Vortex is on the way!


----------



## Hiram Maxim

Because of Work and Family and falling out of a shag bark hickory tree I haven't been visiting the Forums sense last Year. 

I would just like to Publicly say that 
*BKVP is an absolutely stand up individual and I truly Appreciate him taking the time address and fix my 1107 Ultra problem.  Thank You for Your Help and kindness.*

*Hiram *


----------



## BrotherBart

Wondered where you had been. Haven't seen ya since January.

Welcome back.


----------



## RustyShackleford

Hiram Maxim said:


> BKVP is an absolutely stand up individual and I truly Appreciate him taking the time ...


Amen.   And you know what else, he's SMART.   It's amazing how many companies (most) in this modern internet age, where people discuss most every product in detail on forums like these, completely ignore what's going on in those forums (or at least don't acknowledge it).   That's just dumb.


----------



## Dieselhead

What was your issue Hiram?


----------



## webby3650

RustyShackleford said:


> Amen.   And you know what else, he's SMART.   It's amazing how many companies (most) in this modern internet age, where people discuss most every product in detail on forums like these, completely ignore what's going on in those forums (or at least don't acknowledge it).   That's just dumb.


Like when I mentioned issues being discussed on Hearth.com with certain stoves to the Lopi factory Rep. He literally laughed in my face! He brushed this site off as a bunch of people that just wanted to complain.


----------



## Parallax

That attitude lost them my purchase. Look at how Blaze King, by contrast, is selling stoves as fast as they can roll them off the line.


----------



## NinjaTech

Parallax said:


> That attitude lost them my purchase. Look at how Blaze King, by contrast, is selling stoves as fast as they can roll them off the line.



Tis true, when I got mine I got their (unfired) floor demo unit. Guy at the stove shop said if I didn't want the demo and wanted a new one, I probably wouldn't be getting it will half way threw heating season due to demand.


----------



## claybe

Okay, I have a problem. I am on my 3rd season with my princess insert. I just don't feel like it has been working correctly since I got it. Maybe I am wrong or my expectations are off. My wife thinks I don't know how to work it. Here's what I do. 
Load it up and light it. 
Everything is open. 
Let it go until it is in the cat zone. 
Close it down and turn the air down to half 4 out of 8 dots 
Temp climbs and then I drop the air down to 2 out of 8 dots. 
Smoke comes out of the chimney at all stages
Wife is upset that there are not flames. I explained that there will not be flames. 
Anyway I don't think I am getting the burn times should and there definitely should not be the smoke as heavy as it is out the chimney. 
Wood is pine and hardwood mix and is seasoned. 
I'm confused.


----------



## NinjaTech

What are you getting for burn times, and is the cat staying active?


----------



## claybe

Depends on how I load it. If I stuff it I can get 8 to 10 hours but it goes all the way to coals and the house is cold. The cat stays in the active zone throughout until it doesn't. If that makes sense. I am more concerned about the heavy smoke making it out of the pipe. That seems to me that something is not working right.


----------



## weatherguy

Ricky8443 said:


> Can anyone elaborate on the Blazeking Princess's Insert's ability to heat without a working fan during a power outage? I have a backup generator, but still curious to know what percentage of its ability to heat will be compromised during an outage. thx


I lost power for a week and didn't have a generator at the time. It did a pretty good job heating the house, the family room was in the low 70's, upstairs bedrooms were cooler around 60-62 with overnight temps in the 20's. I ended up sleeping in the family room that week since I have sleep apnea and couldn't run my machine, I slept in the recliner.


----------



## NinjaTech

claybe said:


> Depends on how I load it. If I stuff it I can get 8 to 10 hours but it goes all the way to coals and the house is cold. The cat stays in the active zone throughout until it doesn't. If that makes sense. I am more concerned about the heavy smoke making it out of the pipe. That seems to me that something is not working right.



How sure are you the wood is dry? Do you have a moisture meter to test with? I'm sure there are some much more knowledgeable people on here that can help more than me, I just started burning myself. When I first got the stove I did do some testing though, burned a load of dry then a load of wet and switched back and forth a few times.I did that so I got a feel for how the stove will react to wet wood and can identify it in the future by the stoves response. I noticed the wet wood did tend to smoke, where the dry really had no smoke at all. Are you also getting a lot of crud built up on the glass after a single day of running it? I noticed the wet wood put a lot more creosote all over the inside of the firebox vs the dry.


----------



## claybe

Thanks for the reminder ninja. I do have a moisture meter and just checked to find 12% moisture on wood I just bought as seasoned. I bet that is too much  and always forget to check. I wish I had time to season and find my own wood but it is a little difficult here. I guess that is it and admire your tenacity to check both wet and dry. What a great idea


----------



## HotCoals

claybe said:


> Okay, I have a problem. I am on my 3rd season with my princess insert. I just don't feel like it has been working correctly since I got it. Maybe I am wrong or my expectations are off. My wife thinks I don't know how to work it. Here's what I do.
> Load it up and light it.
> Everything is open.
> Let it go until it is in the cat zone.
> Close it down and turn the air down to half 4 out of 8 dots
> Temp climbs and then I drop the air down to 2 out of 8 dots.
> Smoke comes out of the chimney at all stages
> Wife is upset that there are not flames. I explained that there will not be flames.
> Anyway I don't think I am getting the burn times should and there definitely should not be the smoke as heavy as it is out the chimney.
> Wood is pine and hardwood mix and is seasoned.
> I'm confused.



Ok

Cat is in the stove right?
When you engage the by pass you feel the by pass closing right?


----------



## claybe

Yes to both.


----------



## NinjaTech

claybe said:


> Thanks for the reminder ninja. I do have a moisture meter and just checked to find 12% moisture on wood I just bought as seasoned. I bet that is too much  and always forget to check. I wish I had time to season and find my own wood but it is a little difficult here. I guess that is it and admire your tenacity to check both wet and dry. What a great idea



If your at 12 percent your fine on the wood. Did you split a piece and test the middle, or just the outside? If you didn't split it, take a nice big piece, split in down the middle and test the inside.


----------



## claybe

All the wood is split already. I tested the outside and the inside.  10-12% on each side multiple pieces.


----------



## NinjaTech

claybe said:


> All the wood is split already. I tested the outside and the inside.  10-12% on each side multiple pieces.



Take one of those splits, and split it again, like your making kindling. Test the inside of that. Since its been exposed to air, a test on it right now may show deceptively low. You want to go for the middle of the wood to test. More accurate.


----------



## HotCoals

claybe said:


> Yes to both.


Well it does not sound like your cat is working. Can you see it glow when in cruise or whenever?


----------



## Shane Collins

This post grew since I last posted!

The temps here aren't too bad yet so I've not yet really tested the Ashford but so far I really love it, as does my wife.  We had a good 24 hours below 32 outside the other night.  I loaded my Ashford 3/4 full at night and got her going.  Turned it down to about 2 and 1/4 and went to bed.  Woke up and it was 70 in the living room (where the stove is) and only a few degrees different in the surrounding rooms.  After 24 hours from loading I had to reload.  I reloaded when the cat was still in the active zone and a smallish bed of embers was all that was left.  The house had dropped to 68.  I know things will change when it's much colder outside but so far I'm loving this.  3/4 full firebox and got a good 24 hours out of it.  I could have left it for a couple more hours.  Temp would have dropped a little but it would have still been plenty comfortable in here.  

My house isn't very tight so I can't ever see it getting too hot in here.  The thermometer I'm using for temps is in my living room but about 20 feet from the stove.

The glass seems to be staying pretty clean now I'm doing fuller loads.  Next week I should be able to pack it full and give it a real test.  Temps are supposed to be a high of 32 and low of 20.  I look forward to my first full load.

Also I notice the stove really does seem to regulate it's temperature.  This morning when I checked the cat thermometer was between 10 and 11 o'clock.  Now it's just past 12.  Mine seems to go up and down staying in the same range for most of the burn.  Obviously after most of the gasses and wood have burned I have to adjust the thermostat a little to keep the temps I want.  But it seems to run itself with very little help needed from me.

Last year every morning I was waking up to a cold start and 50-55 degrees in the house.  My wife is so happy waking up to a house in the high 60's.  Happy wife happy home!

Thank you all for some great help and advice.  And for guiding me to the BK Ashford.


----------



## Rossco

Well it's time to forget all this 'Shoulder season' nonsense!

Currently -20C up high. Around -17C at home. We will see if the BK Hype is really 'All That' or if the forced air poluted my living space last night.


----------



## claybe

HotCoals said:


> Well it does not sound like your cat is working. Can you see it glow when in cruise or whenever?


It only glows sometimes. Is it supposed to glow all the time?  If so it surely does not. 

Also, the thermostat does not move smoothly at all. I watched some do the blaze king you tube videos and it looks like the thermostats move very effortlessly. That is not the case with my princess. Any ideas on that one???

I also will split the split and check the moisture again.


----------



## Highbeam

claybe said:


> It only glows sometimes. Is it supposed to glow all the time?  If so it surely does not.
> 
> Also, the thermostat does not move smoothly at all. I watched some do the blaze king you tube videos and it looks like the thermostats move very effortlessly. That is not the case with my princess. Any ideas on that one???
> 
> I also will split the split and check the moisture again.



The cat is not supposed to glow all time. No glow, partial glow, full glow, all okay from an active cat. What you do know is that if it glows the cat is active.


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Well it's time to forget all this 'Shoulder season' nonsense!
> 
> Currently -20C up high. Around -17C at home. We will see if the BK Hype is really 'All That' or if the forced air poluted my living space last night.



What the neck is a C? Is that like Kelvin?


----------



## claybe

Highbeam said:


> The cat is not supposed to glow all time. No glow, partial glow, full glow, all okay from an active cat. What you do know is that if it glows the cat is active.


Thanks highbeam!  That's what I thought and judge the cat being active by the condar cat temp gauge I put in. Am still wondering about the thermo air flow knob though....


----------



## Rossco

Mm well. It was 20.5C in the house when I arrived home. Not bad for 2200sft with the stove in the basement. Stove still active and warm, No forced air activation either.

I loaded her back up and it's now firing on all cylinders. Left her on 2.5. We will see if she catches back up.



Highbeam said:


> What the neck is a C? Is that like Kelvin?



'C' means Cold


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Mm well. It was 20.5C in the house when I arrived home. Not bad for 2200sft with the stove in the basement. Stove still active and warm, No forced air activation either.
> 
> I loaded her back up and it's now firing on all cylinders. Left her on 2.5. We will see if she catches back up.
> 
> 
> 
> 'C' means Cold



All I know is 0°C is 32°F oh and boiling point. It's 72 in my house, way warmer than 20.


----------



## Rossco

Highbeam said:


> All I know is 0°C is 32°F oh and boiling point. It's 72 in my house, way warmer than 20.



Yeah. All i know is the the F stands for *F*air weather* F*airies where I come from.


----------



## NinjaTech

claybe said:


> Thanks highbeam!  That's what I thought and judge the cat being active by the condar cat temp gauge I put in. Am still wondering about the thermo air flow knob though....



How is it not smooth? Is the flapper itself not moving smooth, or does the knob just seem almost "gritty" feeling when turning it?


----------



## Shane Collins

claybe said:


> Thanks highbeam!  That's what I thought and judge the cat being active by the condar cat temp gauge I put in. Am still wondering about the thermo air flow knob though....



What's happening with your thermostat knob exactly?  When I got my stove it wasn't working properly.  I discovered it was spinning on the rod and not really turning it unless you pushed hard.  I made another post about it and BKVP replied this, which fixed my problem :
_
 "Turn the rod clockwise until the rod will turn no more and comes to a natural stop. This may require a small pair of pliers depending upon hand or grip strength. 
Now turn the knob clockwise until the white line is pointing straight down to the 6 o'clock position. Tighten the hex screw using your allen wrench. 
Our apologies for this having come loose. It doesn't happen very often at all but it does a few times each year."_

You have a different stove to me so it's probably different for yours, but could it be that it's spinning and not properly turning the rod to open/close the airflow?


----------



## claybe

NinjaTech said:


> How is it not smooth? Is the flapper itself not moving smooth, or does the knob just seem almost "gritty" feeling when turning it?


When it gets to the lowest 2 dots it seems like it tightens up. Also, yes, it feels gritty throughout. It feels like the spring gets caught or doesn't move like it should.


----------



## Highbeam

claybe said:


> When it gets to the lowest 2 dots it seems like it tightens up. Also, yes, it feels gritty throughout. It feels like the spring gets caught or doesn't move like it should.


 
It won't be silky smooth like a car radio knob. The shaft turns a gear that tightens the stat coil shaft which is on a perpendicular axis. You'll always feel the gear teeth.


----------



## NinjaTech

The inserts are a little different, the bimetalic coil is directly on the end of the shaft that the tstat knob is on. Mine has that same gritty feel, there is a tension spring that adjusts how hard it is to turn the knob. What your feeling is the edge of the spring rubbing across another metal surface. Its normal and doesn't effect how the tstat works at all. When I get home tonight I'll pop the cover off and take some pictures so you can see how the entire mechanism works if you like.


----------



## Parallax

claybe said:


> Thanks highbeam!  That's what I thought and judge the cat being active by the condar cat temp gauge I put in. Am still wondering about the thermo air flow knob though....


I wonder if your cat byplass plate is leaking. BKVP walked me through how to tighten mine. With the stove cooled down, you can check it with a dollar bill, same way you check the door. It won't be as tight as the door because it's metal on metal, but there should be some resistance.


----------



## claybe

Parallax said:


> I wonder if your cat byplass plate is leaking. BKVP walked me through how to tighten mine. With the stove cooled down, you can check it with a dollar bill, same way you check the door. It won't be as tight as the door because it's metal on metal, but there should be some resistance.


Interesting. I have never heard of this. It will be about a week before I can shut it down long enough to check. I guess this should be on the annual checklist before starting her up for the season!

Ninja, yes pics would help!


----------



## Highbeam

Parallax said:


> I wonder if your cat byplass plate is leaking. BKVP walked me through how to tighten mine. With the stove cooled down, you can check it with a dollar bill, same way you check the door. It won't be as tight as the door because it's metal on metal, but there should be some resistance.



Yours is metal on metal? The bypass door has a gasket on my princess.


----------



## Highbeam

NinjaTech said:


> The inserts are a little different, the bimetalic coil is directly on the end of the shaft that the tstat knob is on. Mine has that same gritty feel, there is a tension spring that adjusts how hard it is to turn the knob. What your feeling is the edge of the spring rubbing across another metal surface. Its normal and doesn't effect how the tstat works at all. When I get home tonight I'll pop the cover off and take some pictures so you can see how the entire mechanism works if you like.


Dang it. Bit by the insert trick. 

Pics would be great for all.


----------



## Archer39

I have a two year old princesse insert and have a question about the cat temp gauge. Where is the needle suppose to sit when cold? Mine is almost all the back around to the active zone when cold. Is this normal?


----------



## BKVP

Archer39 said:


> I have a two year old princesse insert and have a question about the cat temp gauge. Where is the needle suppose to sit when cold? Mine is almost all the back around to the active zone when cold. Is this normal?


loosen the tiny nut on the bottom, set needle pointing at about 7 o'clock and retighten the nut.  That should do it.

Thank you
Chris


----------



## NinjaTech

Pictures as promised! I was wrong, I thought I remembered the coil was directly on the end of the shaft, but its not. There is a cam on the end of the shaft that moves a lever the coil is mounted on.


----------



## HotCoals

Wow..way diff setup.


----------



## NinjaTech

I thought I might mention this for BKVP, something you may want to pass along to whoever it needs to go to. On the inserts they come with four bolts that act as feet/levelers. They are made with nuts welded to the insert, the two rear ones are very securely welded to the side of the firebox in the back. But the front two are welded on to much thinner sheet steel thats not nearly as sturdy. If you look in picture 1 and 2 you can see the nut I'm talking about down at the bottom. I was not able to even use the front two bolts as the weight of the insert would bend those thinner sections up. On the blower side it was bending it so far it was interfering with the operation of the blower rheostat. I had to take the front two out and support the front of the firebox with a few scraps of 3/8 plate under the thicker firebox section.


----------



## RustyShackleford

BKVP said:


> loosen the tiny nut on the bottom, set needle pointing at about 7 o'clock and retighten the nut.  That should do it.


Mine won't stay put; I loosen the nut and put the needle back to the "cold position", but if drifts pretty soon, so that it's way below that spot.   Not BK's fault of course, since they're made by Condar.


----------



## RustyShackleford

NinjaTech said:


> On the inserts they come with four bolts that act as feet/levelers.


I actually added leveler bolts to my free-standing Princess Ultra.   Just used a right-angle drill to drill a couple holes (in the flange that sticks out about 4" around the pedestal), then tapped 'em and put in bolts.  Also put a piece of metal between each bolt-end and the floor for them to push against.   That metal is fairly thin, so wanna use a very fine thread so there's as many threads as possible.   Not sure how this could be done on the Parlor and the Classic models


----------



## Quentin2

Been holding out waiting for a cold snap that hasn't come yet.  Loaded up the stove last night with mostly cottonwood at 10pm 30-40f outside.  Charred it on full for 5 min or so, closed bypass turned it down to 2 or halfway for about ten minutes then set it to just above 1 left blowers on medium low.

Got back from work at about 6:30 today was gonna ask the wife if she knew how long the stove stayed warm expecting it went out sometime early afternoon when whadyano stove tops at 300 cat is just below active and blowers are pushing good heat.

Upstairs thermo is set at 71 but it's 74, downstairs stove room is 78.  I turn the stove stat up to 3 and instantly the coals come to life the cat climbs well into the active range.  An hour later I stuff the box again and remember all over again why this beast impresses the heck out of me.  21 hours on cottonwood!, I don't know how much of that time was inactive.

I will say it is a big box to fill, you can easily take three trips to the wood pile to get enough to fill the king.


----------



## BKVP

NinjaTech said:


> I thought I might mention this for BKVP, something you may want to pass along to whoever it needs to go to. On the inserts they come with four bolts that act as feet/levelers. They are made with nuts welded to the insert, the two rear ones are very securely welded to the side of the firebox in the back. But the front two are welded on to much thinner sheet steel thats not nearly as sturdy. If you look in picture 1 and 2 you can see the nut I'm talking about down at the bottom. I was not able to even use the front two bolts as the weight of the insert would bend those thinner sections up. On the blower side it was bending it so far it was interfering with the operation of the blower rheostat. I had to take the front two out and support the front of the firebox with a few scraps of 3/8 plate under the thicker firebox section.


Thanks.  Got the info and will speak with the engineers.  I now know why dealers says they use firebrick in the corners/center to prop up the insert during install.  Not just to prop up, but because two of locations used with the leveling bolts are not robust...thank you.


----------



## Rossco

Well god dam it. 

So just in from nightshift, said it was -26C on the ride home. Pulled on drive, no visible smoke from stack. 

Stove out and stone cold. Wife forgot to turn it down at bed time. 

Dam it what's the point!


----------



## BKVP

Been there.


----------



## jeffsk7

Okay reading this thread I'm still a little confused on the t-stat on my sirocco 30.  My dial has a normal range in gold. (1) At where should I here it close on a cold stove?  And by closed this means that the flapper just shuts all the way correct? (2) when the stove is heated up and cat engaged and i turn the dial down from 3 and I hear it click i assume the flap is closed and the bimetallic piece of metal controls the are intake from that point?  I'm just curious because my stove seems to fall inactive in a few hours at setting 1.75.  I have seen maybe 15 hours of good heat output but not any more than that.  From my undetstanding the t-stat should keep this from happening and this is how long burns are achieved. I burn fir.  Just trying to see if my burns are running long enough.


----------



## AlaskanChick

How do i fix my temp knob?
one day i came home after work and my knob would turn, but the rod would not catch it stays in one place.
i believe its stuck on 1 but, i need it at a 2. do to the cold weather in alaska.
so if someone can get back to me on how to fix it that'll be great.


----------



## tarzan

jeffsk7 said:


> Okay reading this thread I'm still a little confused on the t-stat on my sirocco 30.  My dial has a normal range in gold. (1) At where should I here it close on a cold stove?  And by closed this means that the flapper just shuts all the way correct? (2) when the stove is heated up and cat engaged and i turn the dial down from 3 and I hear it click i assume the flap is closed and the bimetallic piece of metal controls the are intake from that point?  I'm just curious because my stove seems to fall inactive in a few hours at setting 1.75.  I have seen maybe 15 hours of good heat output but not any more than that.  From my undetstanding the t-stat should keep this from happening and this is how long burns are achieved. I burn fir.  Just trying to see if my burns are running long enough.



The thermostat strives to maintain at any setting. If it's falling inactive at a setting of 1.75 then try turning it up a bit. Your wood and or draft may simply not allow you to run at that setting. You don't need to run the stove by the sound of the draft shutting at a particular setting but you should here it at or near 1 on a cold stove.


----------



## tarzan

AlaskanChick said:


> How do i fix my temp knob?
> one day i came home after work and my knob would turn, but the rod would not catch it stays in one place.
> i believe its stuck on 1 but, i need it at a 2. do to the cold weather in alaska.
> so if someone can get back to me on how to fix it that'll be great.



If the rod that the knob is directly attached is not turning then there is an Allen head set jhggf


AlaskanChick said:


> How do i fix my temp knob?
> one day i came home after work and my knob would turn, but the rod would not catch it stays in one place.
> i believe its stuck on 1 but, i need it at a 2. do to the cold weather in alaska.
> so if someone can get back to me on how to fix it that'll be great.



If the rod the knob is attached to will not turn there is an Allen head set screw on the knob that probably needs tightened. If that is it you will likely need to tighten it to get the rod to turn, then open the draft all the way till it stops. Loosen knob, adjust to 6:00 and retighten.


----------



## Highbeam

AlaskanChick said:


> How do i fix my temp knob?
> one day i came home after work and my knob would turn, but the rod would not catch it stays in one place.
> i believe its stuck on 1 but, i need it at a 2. do to the cold weather in alaska.
> so if someone can get back to me on how to fix it that'll be great.


 
In the meantime, to prevent freezing to death, use a pair of pliers to twist the rod as needed.


----------



## Shane Collins

AlaskanChick said:


> How do i fix my temp knob?
> one day i came home after work and my knob would turn, but the rod would not catch it stays in one place.
> i believe its stuck on 1 but, i need it at a 2. do to the cold weather in alaska.
> so if someone can get back to me on how to fix it that'll be great.



What stove do you have?  This happened on my BK Ashford, earlier in the thread I posted the fix for my stove. For setting and securing the thermostat on the BK Ashford, quoted from BKVP :
_
"Turn the rod clockwise until the rod will turn no more and comes to a natural stop. This may require a small pair of pliers depending upon hand or grip strength. 
Now turn the knob clockwise until the white line is pointing straight down to the 6 o'clock position. Tighten the hex screw using your allen wrench. 
Our apologies for this having come loose. It doesn't happen very often at all but it does a few times each year."_


----------



## BKVP

jeffsk7 said:


> Okay reading this thread I'm still a little confused on the t-stat on my sirocco 30.  My dial has a normal range in gold. (1) At where should I here it close on a cold stove?  And by closed this means that the flapper just shuts all the way correct? (2) when the stove is heated up and cat engaged and i turn the dial down from 3 and I hear it click i assume the flap is closed and the bimetallic piece of metal controls the are intake from that point?  I'm just curious because my stove seems to fall inactive in a few hours at setting 1.75.  I have seen maybe 15 hours of good heat output but not any more than that.  From my undetstanding the t-stat should keep this from happening and this is how long burns are achieved. I burn fir.  Just trying to see if my burns are running long enough.




Lots of variables can effect that burn time.  Fir being a softwood is one of a few that come to mind.  How long is your chimney?  15' should be about the minimum from stove top to cap.  If you have a short stack, experience shows a little more draft will enhance performance with more btu output at the top end and a lot more control at the bottom end.  If the cat is going inactive and you have fuel left (unburned wood) then there may be other issues.

Chris


----------



## Gareth96

So chimney size matters?  sorry....


----------



## tarzan

AlaskanChick, have you corrected the problem with the thermostat knob or figured out another way to turn it yet?


----------



## Stump shot

Rossco said:


> Well god dam it.
> 
> So just in from nightshift, said it was -26C on the ride home. Pulled on drive, no visible smoke from stack.
> 
> Stove out and stone cold. Wife forgot to turn it down at bed time.
> 
> Dam it what's the point!



Do you have the fan kit for your stove?


----------



## BKVP

Gareth96 said:


> So chimney size matters?  sorry....


Yes.  Both diameter, length and the type of pipe used.


----------



## jeffsk7

tarzan said:


> The thermostat strives to maintain at any setting. If it's falling inactive at a setting of 1.75 then try turning it up a bit. Your wood and or draft may simply not allow you to run at that setting. You don't need to run the stove by the sound of the draft shutting at a particular setting but you should here it at or near 1 on a cold stove.


Well mine clicks shut around 1.5.  I did run the stove at 1.5 all day.  It was only around 35 f today.  It seemed to hold there great.  Although I'm not seeing 24 hour burns.  I loaded full at 5am came home at 4pm stove top was 300 degrees cat just active and some nice coal to load up again.  Anyone think I should get longer burns?


----------



## jeffsk7

BKVP said:


> Lots of variables can effect that burn time.  Fir being a softwood is one of a few that come to mind.  How long is your chimney?  15' should be about the minimum from stove top to cap.  If you have a short stack, experience shows a little more draft will enhance performance with more btu output at the top end and a lot more control at the bottom end.  If the cat is going inactive and you have fuel left (unburned wood) then there may be other issues.
> 
> Chris


From top of stove it is 18' single wall flex liner.  Its not insulated due to the size of old clay chimney liner.  There is just no room.  But with the clay liner being surrounded by brick I would imagine that is insulating it some.  The fir is about 15% on the moisture meter.  And yes the cat will go inactive with wood in the stove.


----------



## Highbeam

jeffsk7 said:


> Well mine clicks shut around 1.5.  I did run the stove at 1.5 all day.  It was only around 35 f today.  It seemed to hold there great.  Although I'm not seeing 24 hour burns.  I loaded full at 5am came home at 4pm stove top was 300 degrees cat just active and some nice coal to load up again.  Anyone think I should get longer burns?



It's a thermostat and will open as needed to maintain stove temp. When it opens, more fuel is burned. We had 32 degrees and howling winds for the last two days. I'm down to easy 12 hour burn cycles as a result of my house needing the heat and the stove providing it. You only get the long long burns when demand is low and fuel load is high.


----------



## Rossco

Stump shot said:


> Do you have the fan kit for your stove?



You bet. Mines a basement princess and points at the stairs. Fans 100% essential for heating upstairs.

Thinking about buying the convection deck.


----------



## BKVP

jeffsk7 said:


> From top of stove it is 18' single wall flex liner.  Its not insulated due to the size of old clay chimney liner.  There is just no room.  But with the clay liner being surrounded by brick I would imagine that is insulating it some.  The fir is about 15% on the moisture meter.  And yes the cat will go inactive with wood in the stove.



That's probably the biggest issue you are facing, especially if that chimney with the single wall liner is also on an exterior wall.  Post a picture if you don't mind.

Will it burn to completion on a full high burn?


----------



## jeffsk7

BKVP said:


> That's probably the biggest issue you are facing, especially if that chimney with the single wall liner is also on an exterior wall.  Post a picture if you don't mind.
> 
> Will it burn to completion on a full high burn?


It will burn to completion on high and possibly all the way down to 1.5 if it stays below 40f. This is best pic I have of chimney.


----------



## BKVP

Sir, you need more draft to take advantage of the full burn opportunities for your stove.  The "below 40" is because the stack effect is "fixing" the lack of draft.  But once temps go up, your chimney will not allow full burn range.

Chris


----------



## Ricky8443

How much of the cat's heat affects the Tstat versus if you run the stove on bypass mode the entire time. I didn't close the bypass last night but had the tstat on very lowlow. That sucker was still burning a nice low heat this morning and actually put out what felt like 'more heat' throughout the night. Not sure why, but curious to learn more. obviously heat was being lost, but didnt' feel like it and stove was still 350 in the morning with cat well in the active zone ironically.


----------



## tarzan

Ricky8443 said:


> How much of the cat's heat affects the Tstat versus if you run the stove on bypass mode the entire time. I didn't close the bypass last night but had the tstat on very lowlow. That sucker was still burning a nice low heat this morning and actually put out what felt like 'more heat' throughout the night. Not sure why, but curious to learn more. obviously heat was being lost, but didnt' feel like it and stove was still 350 in the morning with cat well in the active zone ironically.



Obviously you would have gotten more heat, had you diverted the smoke through the cat for it to eat and heat instead of the straight shot out the bypass.

What I suspect you witnessed was basicly a smoke dragon on a cold night. With the good draft you got a good low burn.

I have no doubt we could take the cats out of these things and heat our homes just fine. The cat just provides a bonus in the way of heat and a much cleaner burn.

Adding that last night I loaded the stove at 9pm. It's now 7:30am and my stove is running with the draft completely shut as it was at 10:30pm when I went to bed. It's 74f in the stove room and as I peer through the dirty glass I see some wood in there that looks like I could take it out and put it back in the stack! Loving it!

I added this since I'm getting my best burn yet and noticed you live north of me. We're having similar weather due to the Artic Vortex or Not Artic Vortex.


----------



## firefighterjake

Gareth96 said:


> So chimney size matters?  sorry....



Lord forgive me for this one . . . but this was just too easy . . .

Size always matters . . . no matter what they say. 












And yes . . . I'm talking about chimneys.


----------



## BKVP

Ricky8443 said:


> How much of the cat's heat affects the Tstat versus if you run the stove on bypass mode the entire time. I didn't close the bypass last night but had the tstat on very lowlow. That sucker was still burning a nice low heat this morning and actually put out what felt like 'more heat' throughout the night. Not sure why, but curious to learn more. obviously heat was being lost, but didnt' feel like it and stove was still 350 in the morning with cat well in the active zone ironically.




The thermostats do not know if the by pass is open or closed.  They respond to the temps inside the firebox.  I should note that running with the by pass open will cause more accumulation inside your chimney.  Second, running without the cat would be a Federal violation. (Just saying).


----------



## jeffsk7

BKVP said:


> Sir, you need more draft to take advantage of the full burn opportunities for your stove.  The "below 40" is because the stack effect is "fixing" the lack of draft.  But once temps go up, your chimney will not allow full burn range.
> 
> Chris


Thanks for all the information.  I should explain that on warmer days around 45-50f I can burn my stove to completion, but the t-stat is around or just a little below 2. It gets pretty touchy as to what position will kill the cat.  Bkvp are you saying I should get longer burns than 12-13 hours in temps around 32f?  I know there are lots of variables to this, but on average with a sr30 burning fir at 32f how long will it burn?  I don't want to fix my draft if its not a real problem.  From what I've read about burn temps when the stove is cruising I am right around 450-300 for about 12 hours. Heck I'm happy with the stove, but want to make sure I'm getting all the benefits of long burns.


----------



## BKVP

jeffsk7 said:


> Thanks for all the information.  I should explain that on warmer days around 45-50f I can burn my stove to completion, but the t-stat is around or just a little below 2. It gets pretty touchy as to what position will kill the cat.  Bkvp are you saying I should get longer burns than 12-13 hours in temps around 32f?  I know there are lots of variables to this, but on average with a sr30 burning fir at 32f how long will it burn?  I don't want to fix my draft if its not a real problem.  From what I've read about burn temps when the stove is cruising I am right around 450-300 for about 12 hours. Heck I'm happy with the stove, but want to make sure I'm getting all the benefits of long burns.


So long as the cat stays active (check with fans in off position if you have them), and wood burns to completion and you are happy, 13 hours is fine for softwood with colder temps.


----------



## jeffsk7

Bkvp do you think I would benefit from 3 more feet of pipe? I'm not sure how well it would help my burns in colder weather.  But when its warmer maybe I could extend my burns?  Although, again on average with fir and the stove cruising what temp should the stove hold at and not kill the cat?  Thanks again.


----------



## BKVP

I would leave it be.  As for exit gas temps on th eback side of the cat, your stove came with a probe, we use thermocouples which are vastly a better indicator.  Exhaust temps should be above 550F and below 1,200 during NORMAL operating conditions.


----------



## jeffsk7

Thank you!  When you say exhaust temps are you talking on the outside of the single wall pipe directly above the stove?


----------



## AlaskanChick

Shane Collins said:


> What stove do you have?  This happened on my BK Ashford, earlier in the thread I posted the fix for my stove. For setting and securing the thermostat on the BK Ashford, quoted from BKVP :
> _"Turn the rod clockwise until the rod will turn no more and comes to a natural stop. This may require a small pair of pliers depending upon hand or grip strength.
> Now turn the knob clockwise until the white line is pointing straight down to the 6 o'clock position. Tighten the hex screw using your allen wrench.
> Our apologies for this having come loose. It doesn't happen very often at all but it does a few times each year."_


 
thanks this really helped. yes i did fix the problem. yes i do have a BK Ashford.


----------



## BKVP

jeffsk7 said:


> Thank you!  When you say exhaust temps are you talking on the outside of the single wall pipe directly above the stove?


It's the exhaust temp of the combustor.   Your cat thermometer probe measures the Temps as gases exit the combustor.


----------



## AlaskanChick

tarzan said:


> AlaskanChick, have you corrected the problem with the thermostat knob or figured out another way to turn it yet?


 Yes, I did fix my BK. The temp is good, now I don't have to worry about my house getting cold. I followed what Shane Collins quoted from BKVP. It really helps. Kind of struggled at first then i got the hang of it then fixed it.


----------



## Shane Collins

AlaskanChick said:


> thanks this really helped. yes i did fix the problem. yes i do have a BK Ashford.



I'm glad it fixed your problem!


----------



## tarzan

AlaskanChick said:


> Yes, I did fix my BK. The temp is good, now I don't have to worry about my house getting cold. I followed what Shane Collins quoted from BKVP. It really helps. Kind of struggled at first then i got the hang of it then fixed it.



Good to know. Guessing Alaska in November could be rough with heat problems!


----------



## Rossco

Spoke with the dealer today.

Ordered a Convection deck for the Ultra, should be here early December with a boat load of stoves ordered.

We also spoke about the Thermo controlled fan kit that's been discontinued. They claim to have a retro fit kit comming that's better than the OEM.

Anyone here have the Older Thermo controlled fan's or have a retro fit system?

Feel free to post pics of these fans or Convection decks.


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Spoke with the dealer today.
> 
> Ordered a Convection deck for the Ultra, should be here early December with a boat load of stoves ordered.
> 
> We also spoke about the Thermo controlled fan kit that's been discontinued. They claim to have a retro fit kit comming that's better than the OEM.
> 
> Anyone here have the Older Thermo controlled fan's or have a retro fit system?
> 
> Feel free to post pics of these fans or Convection decks.


 
My fans are thermo contolled, that is, they don't come on unless the stove is hot enough. Here's my convection deck. I think it's a good option and plan to make one for my shop stove to increase the output.


----------



## Rossco

Highbeam said:


> My fans are thermo contolled, that is, they don't come on unless the stove is hot enough. Here's my convection deck. I think it's a good option and plan to make one for my shop stove to increase the output.



Thanks buddy. That's a handsome looking heater. 

The stove fans put out good warm air but it could always be better.

The only hurdle,  I need to cool the stove off to fit the deck. That ain't gonna happen for a while as its 14F.

Suppose its a chance to check the chimney out.


----------



## Highbeam

You've got to lift the flue off to get the deck on there. I just like the way it looks with a deck on it. Not sure if you will be able to access any flue collar screws you  may have. For sure you will have to spin your cat probe meter around 180 since the needle will run into the deck if you leave it in the normal position.

Here's the guard pug.


----------



## Rossco

Highbeam said:


> You've got to lift the flue off to get the deck on there. I just like the way it looks with a deck on it. Not sure if you will be able to access any flue collar screws you  may have. For sure you will have to spin your cat probe meter around 180 since the needle will run into the deck if you leave it in the normal position.
> 
> Here's the guard pug.



Yeah I will leave the Vertical pipe in place, pull the 45* off the top and slide the deck down. 

Not sure if I could maybe modify the deck so the Cat gauge is correctly orientated?

Its Something I will look into once I take possession.  

Nice Pooooooch!


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Yeah I will leave the Vertical pipe in place, pull the 45* off the top and slide the deck down.
> 
> Not sure if I could maybe modify the deck so the Cat gauge is correctly orientated?
> 
> Its Something I will look into once I take possession.
> 
> Nice Pooooooch!


 Back on post #557 of this thread I added a photo of my cat probe that shows the clearance issue with the convection deck and the cat meter. It's kind of silly to have to flop the meter around but it works.

Carlos the black pug was in that exact spot this morning soaking up the heat. He's actually really thin at 18#. Pugs are gluttons and will get obese if you let them.


----------



## BKVP

Yes, this is my firestarter.  It's got plenty of hot gases to ignite even the wettest wood.  It's made by Smith & Wesson.


----------



## tarzan

BKVP said:


> Yes, this is my firestarter.  It's got plenty of hot gases to ignite even the wettest wood.  It's made by Smith & Wesson.



Looks loaded with some slow burning powder.


----------



## 05ramctd

Is the deck an option.  I got the dual  fans Would this help with more heat or I don't need it.  Just got my king a couple months ago. Love it.


----------



## webby3650

05ramctd said:


> Is the deck an option.  I got the dual  fans Would this help with more heat or I don't need it.  Just got my king a couple months ago. Love it.


The deck comes standard on the King Ultra. I'm not sure it's an option for the king, I think if you want it, you must order the ultra from the get go.


----------



## BKVP

All:

The convection deck does seem to focus the air across the top surface of the stove a bit more.  Clearly those that have them say the air it hotter when fans are on low.  I guess that makes sense.

The convection deck is permanently attached to the King Ultra.  It was necessary to do so in order to make the stove (very tall) pass the test for mobile home 7' ceiling installation.  And as we all know, we must build them the way we test them!

The convection deck is NOT an option on the other two King models as the fan mounting systems are different. (Not the fans themselves, just the mounting system).  Snowing in Walla Walla...got to go load the stove.

Chris


----------



## jeffsk7

Okay another update.  Burned all day.  About 13 hours came home to stove top 330 and the cat just falling inactive.  There was a nice coal bed to reload.  Ran on 1.5 all day.  I did notice this and was wondering if my thermostat knob is not adjusted perfect.  I have the knob all the way turned and there is still another dot.  Is this correct?


----------



## Stump shot

On my Ashford 30 the thermostat knob stops at 3.5. Somewhere in this thread is directions on how to adjust it so it will stop at the 6 o'clock position.


----------



## jeffsk7

Yep, I saw how to do it. I just read so many bk threads that talk about running the stove around 1-1.5 for long burns.  I thought mine might be off or my draft  might be the problem.  It looks like my 1.5 run today might have actually been a 1?? Hopefully bkvp will give me the final answer on the correct position. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## tigger

On the princess insert, when you guys are getting the longer burns (20+hrs) are you at the lowest setting or just above that. I am stalling out the cat at the lowest setting some of the time. I'm wondering if I should not keep trying to go soooo low. At the first dot I can get good performance.


----------



## webby3650

With my Ashford I can't really go below 2 without stalling the cat after a while. I just crank it up on occasion and it fires right back up!


----------



## tigger

Webby- your getting those long burns on a 2? I have noticed as its getting colder I'm getting longer burns. I went 22 hours today on the first dot above low. No fans though. I shut the fans off at night and when I'm at work.i can then run it on the lowest setting and it stays active.


----------



## webby3650

tigger said:


> Webby- your getting those long burns on a 2? I have noticed as its getting colder I'm getting longer burns. I went 22 hours today on the first dot above low. No fans though. I shut the fans off at night and when I'm at work.i can then run it on the lowest setting and it stays active.


Keep in mind that the thermostat is different on each stove In the BK lineup. My 2 will be different than your 2.


----------



## Ricky8443

anyone take the convection deck off the  princess insert? makes the fan much quieter w no rattle.much better


----------



## Stump shot

webby3650 said:


> With my Ashford I can't really go below 2 without stalling the cat after a while. I just crank it up on occasion and it fires right back up!


That is how I run mine also. I've run it like this from 60 degrees to below zero. At shoulder season temps I run it on two splits and full load at zero. Some days it will go 24 hours on a reload when it is around zero for that time. The house temp ranged from 74 to 68.


----------



## webby3650

Ricky8443 said:


> anyone take the convection deck off the  princess insert? makes the fan much quieter w no rattle.much better


I find it much easier to just adjust things so there is no rattle. It generally a very easy fix.


----------



## Shane Collins

I'm finally doing my first load on my BK Ashford.  Last night I packed it as full as I could at 10:45pm.  I let it burn on high for 30 minutes then turned it down a little then after another 15 minutes I turned it down to 1.75 and went to bed.  It's 30 outside and the house was 64 when I woke up at 6:30am.  The cat was still well in the active zone.  I turned it up a little to get it a bit warmer in here.  It's now 7:40 and I just turned it back down to 2.  Loads of wood left in the firebox, I expect It'll be at least a 24 hour burn.  I seem to be able to run it on lower than 2 without it stalling but it doesn't keep the house as warm.  2 seems to be the sweet spot for me I think.  No point running it for longer than 24 hours if it isn't keeping the house as warm as my wife wants it!  I'm very pleased with this stove though, it really is something else.


----------



## Ricky8443

webby3650 said:


> I find it much easier to just adjust things so there is no rattle. It generally a very easy fix.


I tried a few things but nothing quieted the rattle. Decided to remove it last night and what a relief. I can finally put the fan on full speed.


----------



## Highbeam

jeffsk7 said:


> It looks like my 1.5 run today might have actually been a 1?? Hopefully


 
It's the opposite of that. You were actually running at 2 when you though you were at 1.5. The actual stat position is 0.5 higher than what you think.

Points to weak draft.


----------



## HotCoals

I'm thinking if the by-pass is not sealed good that it slows the draft at the cat. That and because some of the smoke is now going straight up the flue it's less food for the cat which could lead to a stall that might not have happened if the seal was better.


----------



## jeffsk7

Highbeam said:


> It's the opposite of that. You were actually running at 2 when you though you were at 1.5. The actual stat position is 0.5 higher than what you think.
> 
> Points to weak draft.


Yep.  I didn't think about that to hard.  I wonder if I should add 3 feet of pipe and see what happens. Or I guess I could insulate my top few feet of flex liner with Roxul?  Is there a connection that can be used to go from flex liner to straight pipe? This would go out the top of my chimney.  I would imagine double wall and not single?  The stove is burning okay, but I'd imagine if I fix my draft it will be more efficient and that is really what I'm looking for.


----------



## liquidskin

i was teaching my fiance how to use the BK princess insert last night and she cranked the t-stat past max dot.  i must have turned white.  in her defense, i wouldnt have expected it to turn above the max.  could anything be screwed up now? havent noticed anything yet, but im still new to the stove.


----------



## Highbeam

jeffsk7 said:


> Yep.  I didn't think about that to hard.  I wonder if I should add 3 feet of pipe and see what happens. Or I guess I could insulate my top few feet of flex liner with Roxul?  Is there a connection that can be used to go from flex liner to straight pipe? This would go out the top of my chimney.  I would imagine double wall and not single?  The stove is burning okay, but I'd imagine if I fix my draft it will be more efficient and that is really what I'm looking for.


 
For proof of concept you can pick up any old single wall chunk of snap lok pipe that fits in place of the cap. Even HVAC ducting. The permanent extension, if you decide to install one, should be much more expensive. Trying to stuff insulation in next to existing liner would be significantly less helpful. The Ashfords seem to be more draft sensitive.


----------



## jeffsk7

I'll just add a piece of stainless liner and see what happens.  Thanks for the advice and help.


----------



## NinjaTech

jeffsk7 said:


> Is there a connection that can be used to go from flex liner to straight pipe? This would go out the top of my chimney.



I would be curious about this too.


----------



## jeffsk7

Well, its nice and sunny so I'll do it today and let everyone know!


----------



## Dieselhead

*Stat on "1" 5hrs into burn!*


----------



## HotCoals

Good deal!
On 1 the flapper will be closed.


----------



## Rossco

Nice one Diesel. 

My Cat don't glow like that on '1' no more. 



Tell us more about the burn.


----------



## shoot-straight

Dieselhead said:


> View attachment 144289
> View attachment 144291
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Stat on "1" 5hrs into burn!*



thats insane. i still think there is something wrong with my ashford. now i am beginning to think its my bypass damper or combustor. i have to run my stove at almost 3 to get the combuster temp that high. it just doesnt get that hot. i think i have more smoke than i should coming out of the chimney as well. BKVP gave me a thermostat to put in, but i held off. the more i use it, the more i am sure its not the stat. flapper closes at 1 on a cold stove. the combustor looks pretty clean as well. as i said earlier, it seemed as if it had slid out some, so i pushed it back in. 

can you check the bypass without disconnecting? i would think so? my ashford is super heavy and is hard to disconnect/reconnect. 

BTW, its not the wood. 2 yr covered ash at 15-18%. 

my typical burn is near 2 and i get about 8-9 hours in the active zone.


----------



## HotCoals

shoot-straight said:


> thats insane. i still think there is something wrong with my ashford. now i am beginning to think its my bypass damper or combustor. i have to run my stove at almost 3 to get the combuster temp that high. it just doesnt get that hot. i think i have more smoke than i should coming out of the chimney as well. BKVP gave me a thermostat to put in, but i held off. the more i use it, the more i am sure its not the stat. flapper closes at 1 on a cold stove. the combustor looks pretty clean as well. as i said earlier,* it seemed as if it had slid out some, so i pushed it back in. *
> 
> can you check the bypass without disconnecting? i would think so? my ashford is super heavy and is hard to disconnect/reconnect.
> 
> BTW, its not the wood. 2 yr covered ash at 15-18%.
> 
> my typical burn is near 2 and i get about 8-9 hours in the active zone.


That probably is your problem,shot hot gasket around the cat

Mine cat glows on 1 all the time...well at least till the gas's run out. I hardly ever take it off 1..has to pretty cold or I'm just burning down coals on 3..


----------



## jeffsk7

shoot-straight said:


> thats insane. i still think there is something wrong with my ashford. now i am beginning to think its my bypass damper or combustor. i have to run my stove at almost 3 to get the combuster temp that high. it just doesnt get that hot. i think i have more smoke than i should coming out of the chimney as well. BKVP gave me a thermostat to put in, but i held off. the more i use it, the more i am sure its not the stat. flapper closes at 1 on a cold stove. the combustor looks pretty clean as well. as i said earlier, it seemed as if it had slid out some, so i pushed it back in.
> 
> can you check the bypass without disconnecting? i would think so? my ashford is super heavy and is hard to disconnect/reconnect.
> 
> BTW, its not the wood. 2 yr covered ash at 15-18%.
> 
> my typical burn is near 2 and i get about 8-9 hours in the active zone.


This sounds a lot like my issues.  I get smoke (white). For probably an hour or two and then its clear.  My cat won't run near that hot when I'm at 2.  I will get an active can for 9-12 hours like you but its its not even up at 12 o'clock.  I'm Adding 3-4 feet of pipe today.  Will see what happens.  My stove is the sirocco 30.


----------



## HotCoals

jeffsk7 said:


> This sounds a lot like my issues.  I get smoke (white). For probably an hour or two and then its clear.  My cat won't run near that hot when I'm at 2.  I will get an active can for 9-12 hours like you but its its not even up at 12 o'clock.  I'm Adding 3-4 feet of pipe today.  Will see what happens.  My stove is the sirocco 30.


You sure you're heating the wood up good enough so the wood will out gas well?
You see the cat could be stalled and the probe is just telling you the stove top temp because the coil is right on the stove..you follow?


----------



## jeffsk7

Oh ya I've ran it on 3 for 1-2  hours stove top will be right around 650 degrees I back it off and you will still see smoke.  All wood is seasoned fir.  15-18% on moisture meter.


----------



## Rossco

Yeah mine use to glow like that when new. I haven't switched mine off since Oct 9th. (well once when inspecting the flue)

I can get mine glowing on 1 but not like the first few burns.

Diesels install is still pretty new.

Also I imagine more gas is produced from 4ft firebox vs the 3ft.


----------



## jeffsk7

Here is mine and this is on 2


----------



## webby3650

I think the sirricos and Ashfords can't be lumped into the same category as the princess and king. The air control is different. From my experience and others I've seen, they just don't like to run on 1. It's a different beast. I turn mine down just under 2 and the cat will fall off over time, I just crank it back up in the morning and the cat fires right back up.


----------



## jeffsk7

webby3650 said:


> I think the sirricos and Ashfords can't be lumped into the same category as the princess and king. The air control is different. From my experience and others I've seen, they just don't like to run on 1. It's a different beast. I turn mine down just under 2 and the cat will fall off over time, I just crank it back up in the morning and the cat fires right back up.


That's is exactly my experience with mine.


----------



## Dieselhead

6.5 hrs into the burn now, 3 year old top covered mixed hardwood. Right above cat is 540 on the ir temp gun. Still set on 1 glass is darker then normal. No emissions visible from the stack. Cat is about 1 o'clock position now. Most of the wood in the box doesn't even look charred. 40 deg out. N/s load, 1st time I've loaded this way. I have probably 25 loads through stove so it is somewhat new. Going for the elusive 24 hr burn....


----------



## Rossco

Something going with that Jeff, Wood, draft, defective stove component.

Mine runs on 1 @ -15C the same as it runs on 2 @ 5C as the draft is voracious at them temps.

Diesel: How many burns have you burnt?


----------



## Dieselhead

I edited my last post after seeing yours to enter it has about 25 full loads threw. It's still pretty new.


----------



## Rossco

Dieselhead said:


> I edited my last post after seeing yours to enter it has about 25 full loads threw. It's still pretty new.



Ha so the stove is 2 year old then?

 

I managed 24hrs on a load of 'Instant chimney fire' pine.

Not getting that with Tamarack but It aint shoulder season no more.

Nice set up BTW.


----------



## Dieselhead

Ya, it was hot in here in the summer months....


----------



## HotCoals

webby3650 said:


> I think the sirricos and Ashfords can't be lumped into the same category as the princess and king. The air control is different. From my experience and others I've seen, they just don't like to run on 1. It's a different beast. I turn mine down just under 2 and the cat will fall off over time, I just crank it back up in the morning and the cat fires right back up.


Prolly right..they aint the same...the king rules! lol


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Nice one Diesel.
> 
> My Cat don't glow like that on '1' no more.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us more about the burn.


 
All I have to do to get a glow like that is to get a big load ripping and then slam the stat down to 1. The switch from lots of flames to glowing red wood early in the cycle generates a lot of smoke for the cat to eat. That eating makes it hot. My biggest glowing events have happened with no flames in the box and low stat settings.




jeffsk7 said:


> This sounds a lot like my issues.  I get smoke (white). For probably an hour or two and then its clear.  My cat won't run near that hot when I'm at 2.  I will get an active can for 9-12 hours like you but its its not even up at 12 o'clock.  I'm Adding 3-4 feet of pipe today.  Will see what happens.  My stove is the sirocco 30.


 
White smoke eh? That's a sign of wet wood. What you're seeing is steam. Incomplete combustion is blue smoke. Wet wood would also cause your other "low draft" like problems.


----------



## HotCoals

Highbeam said:


> All I have to do to get a glow like that is to get a big load ripping and then slam the stat down to 1. The switch from lots of flames to glowing red wood early in the cycle generates a lot of smoke for the cat to eat. That eating makes it hot. My biggest glowing events have happened with no flames in the box and low stat settings.


Same here.


----------



## Rossco

High beam:

Burning Western Larch at the moment.

An gonna fish out some super dry pine from the back of the shed.

Nothing gums the window up like 'Instant chimney fire' Pine.

See if we can see the cat reflecting off the basement floor again.

Wodda you guys burning?


----------



## blueguy

Highbeam said:


> All I have to do to get a glow like that is to get a big load ripping and then slam the stat down to 1. The switch from lots of flames to glowing red wood early in the cycle generates a lot of smoke for the cat to eat. That eating makes it hot. My biggest glowing events have happened with no flames in the box and low stat settings.



Same here


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> High beam:
> 
> Burning Western Larch at the moment.
> 
> An gonna fish out some super dry pine from the back of the shed.
> 
> Nothing gums the window up like 'Instant chimney fire' Pine.
> 
> See if we can see the cat reflecting off the basement floor again.
> 
> Wodda you guys burning?


 
Right now I'm doing 12 hour loads of medium quality doug fir plus a bit of alder. The doug fir was standing dead this spring on my woodlot. It was actually leaning and I wanted it gone for liability reasons when I sold the lot in Summer. The tree was a bit punky in places but too big and good to waste. I processed it and put it with my other junk wood for campfires and shop stove burning. Well it actually burns pretty good with no bubbles or hiss so I've been using it up in the shop and home. Then I'll be into the good stacks of well aged (2.5 years CSS, photo in my avatar) doug fir and some sort of cypress/juniper thing.


----------



## webby3650

HotCoals said:


> Prolly right..they aint the same...the king rules! lol


Do you know the only thing that's wrong with the Princess? It ain't a King!


----------



## Rossco

Highbeam: I like Fir as well. Burns pretty high BTU's for a soft wood.

We cut a decade dead fir down last yea r and it was sappy and poppy. Probably still to wet to burn at the stump end (the ends I like)



webby3650 said:


> Do you know the only thing that's wrong with the Princess? It ain't a King!



Problem with the King is it holds more wood than most wood sheds.


----------



## jeffsk7

Another question.  How far counter clockwise should the knob turn?  Mine goes about to 7 o'clock.


----------



## tarzan

plus 2 or 3 or so on shutting the air control on a hot fire. Getting the stove up to 400f or so on a setting of 3 and then going directly to the setting I want to run at has proven to work for me. Love shutting it down and watching the probe needle climb rapidly. Then it's cruise control for hours and hours.

I'm not going to discuss my wood with you "westerners". I don't want y'all getting the impression I think I'm better than you!


----------



## Parallax

Starting to run into problems here. We finally got some cold weather with temps dropping into the 20s at night. If I run the stove high enough to get some serious heat, I wake up in the morning to find just ashes, the cat probe at zero (and the house temp at around 62 or so). If I set it low enough to maintain a long burn, the house is even colder. 

I'm using Doug fir that isn't fully seasoned. Perhaps that's the problem. When I do a fresh split, I get anywhere from 22 to 24 percent moisture content. Picked up some wood that's more like 17% but the outsides are really wet because it was all left out in the open and it rains here a lot. I'm trying to get that stuff to dry out at the surface but it takes time because it's got some rot and that part has really gotten waterlogged. Right now those splits are unburnable. 

The house is 2650 square feet with an open floor plan. Perhaps it's too big for the Ashford. We'll have a better sense once my wood is fully seasoned. That means we may not know until next year.


----------



## HotCoals

Parallax said:


> Starting to run into problems here. We finally got some cold weather with temps dropping into the 20s at night. If I run the stove high enough to get some serious heat, I wake up in the morning to find just ashes, the cat probe at zero (and the house temp at around 62 or so). If I set it low enough to maintain a long burn, the house is even colder.
> 
> I'm using Doug fir that isn't fully seasoned. Perhaps that's the problem. When I do a fresh split, I get anywhere from 22 to 24 percent moisture content. Picked up some wood that's more like 17% but the outsides are really wet because it was all left out in the open and it rains here a lot. I'm trying to get that stuff to dry out at the surface but it takes time because it's got some rot and that part has really gotten waterlogged. Right now those splits are unburnable.
> 
> The house is 2650 square feet with an open floor plan. Perhaps it's too big for the Ashford. We'll have a better sense once my wood is fully seasoned. That means we may not know until next year.


Have you tried some compressed wood bricks  yet?

2650 is getting up there. I'm at 2500 ..two story with a basement. The king handles it good though.


----------



## Shane Collins

What is your reloading routine Parallax? and what thermostat setting are you setting it to on your overnight burns?

I'm burning hard wood so that changes things from you.  My house is about 2600 square feet and a pretty open plan.  It's currently 20 outside and its 68 degrees in here.  I loaded the stove full last night at 10ish so this wood has been going for 20 hours.  I reckon I'll get another 1-2 hours out of it.  Every house and setup is different though.  My wood isn't ideally seasoned, 18-22% but it is a little better than yours.

Are you letting it run on high for a bit when you first load it to get the wood nice and charred?  and when you load it are you packing the wood as tight as possible and putting in as much wood as you can fit?

I would imagine the main problem is the MC in the wood which sucks.  What about mixing each load with a couple compressed wood bricks?


----------



## tarzan

Parallax, to add to Shane's post. Are you saying your stove is going cold in 8 hours or so?


----------



## Parallax

It has been going cold pretty fast. Last night, I went to bed around 2 a.m. The stove still had quite a bit of wood. It had been going for 2 or 3 hours. It was running fairly hot. When I woke up 6 hours later, there was just ash. 

I don't have a routine yet. Have been trying different things. Nothing's working when the weather is real cold. I am charring it before turning the t-stat down. 

Have not tried the compressed wood bricks. Perhaps with the wood not fully dry yet, that's what I'll have to do, at least when the weather is real cold.


----------



## Shane Collins

I'm still working on my routine, hopefully others can tell me if what I'm doing sounds good or bad.  So far this is what works for me.

I load up when there is still a good bed of embers and the cat thermo is still in the active zone.
I set the tstat to 3.5, open the bypass and rake the coals forward.  
Load the stove as tightly packed and full as possible.
Close the door and keep my eye on the stove, within a minute or two the flames get going.
After 20-30 minutes on 3.5 I shut it down to 2 and leave it there.

I only just reloaded the stove from last nights load. Got a 24 hour burn.  I set the thermostat to 1.75 when I went to bed last night to see how low I could go but when we woke up it was 64 in the house, my wife likes it a little warmer.  So far it seems if I set it to lower than 2 the cat stays active, but the house isn't as warm. 2 seems to be my sweet spot.

8-9 hours doesn't seem very good.  Was that on a full load packed tight?


----------



## Stump shot

jeffsk7 said:


> Another question.  How far counter clockwise should the knob turn?  Mine goes about to 7 o'clock.


It should go to 6 o'clock.


Rossco said:


> High beam:
> 
> Burning Western Larch at the moment.
> 
> An gonna fish out some super dry pine from the back of the shed.
> 
> Nothing gums the window up like 'Instant chimney fire' Pine.
> 
> See if we can see the cat reflecting off the basement floor again.
> 
> Wodda you guys burning?


Fir and lodgepole.


----------



## Rossco

tarzan said:


> I'm not going to discuss my wood with you "westerners". I don't want y'all getting the impression I think I'm better than you!



Please tell, I love hearing story's about seasoned 35% MC oak on this site 



Stump shot said:


> Fir and lodgepole.



Good man.


----------



## tarzan

This Box Elder and Fir and such things you speak of? Sounds really soft like it would blow out of the back of the truck without a tarp. LOL

I burn a lot of soft woods to. I don't like cutting live nut bearing trees off my land and living on a mountain side most of the standing dead are just not worth the effort to get out.

I use Cherry, Maple, and Poplar most years but this year I lucked into a good amount of seasoned Oak and Hickory.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax said:


> It has been going cold pretty fast. Last night, I went to bed around 2 a.m. The stove still had quite a bit of wood. It had been going for 2 or 3 hours. It was running fairly hot. When I woke up 6 hours later, there was just ash.
> 
> I don't have a routine yet. Have been trying different things. Nothing's working when the weather is real cold. I am charring it before turning the t-stat down.
> 
> Have not tried the compressed wood bricks. Perhaps with the wood not fully dry yet, that's what I'll have to do, at least when the weather is real cold.



It does sound like you are asking a lot of your stove to heat 2650 sq ft in cold weather and get long burn times.

Compressed wood bricks should let you know if your wood is an issue though.


----------



## jeff_t

Rossco said:


> Wodda you guys burning?



House is on the market, and if it sells now, great. If not it will by next winter. Therefore, I'm burning all the good stuff I have. Right now it's 5 yo oak. Big, straight heavy splits, easy to stuff the firebox. I'll save the ash and elm in case we get some cold weather.

I'll leave all the Siberian elm for the new owners. It makes great heat and lasts a long time, but the amount of ash is incredible.


----------



## Rossco

Ha that's kinda funny Tarzan, no need for 1 ton dually's for a load of wood around here.

Well: I got 15hrs out of it, just waiting for the coals to die down a little before reloading.

Around 21:00 loose load of Larch splits, cranked her as we had guests, they left around 02:00am. Knocked the fans off and dialled her down. Woke with a mega hangover and the 'Stove had gone out' feeling. Wrong, still on, turned it up and bang, back to 2 o clock on cat meter and a lovely bed of chunky coals.

Jeff: Good luck with the house sale. I negotiated the wood pile into the deal. Along with appliances.


----------



## Niko

Just curious to ask on our dials obviously past the normal range does anyone run the stove at 2.5 or 3 or 3.5 for long periods of time? Meaning overnight burns when the outside temps get real cold out.  Im usually at the corner of the normal ramge which i assume is 2.5 roughly.  I turned her up to 3 today just for a hour and took some stove temps and saw aroud 600F with my infared thermometer .  I didnt really get percise measurements as far as the top of stove or glass(forgot to be honest with you).  I normaLy dont pack the stove tight at 2.5 I usually refill the stove in the 12-q8 hr range.  I rarely let her go to coals I just put more wood in before i go to work. 

So if i put her on 3 would that be bad?  Or what can i do to check to make sure 3 is ok?


----------



## tarzan

Niko said:


> Just curious to ask on our dials obviously past the normal range does anyone run the stove at 2.5 or 3 or 3.5 for long periods of time? Meaning overnight burns when the outside temps get real cold out.  Im usually at the corner of the normal ramge which i assume is 2.5 roughly.  I turned her up to 3 today just for a hour and took some stove temps and saw aroud 600F with my infared thermometer .  I didnt really get percise measurements as far as the top of stove or glass(forgot to be honest with you).  I normaLy dont pack the stove tight at 2.5 I usually refill the stove in the 12-q8 hr range.  I rarely let her go to coals I just put more wood in before i go to work.
> 
> So if i put her on 3 would that be bad?  Or what can i do to check to make sure 3 is ok?



The best thing to do is to run it on 3 when you are there to watch it and see what happens.

My "guess" is (since I haven't ran my stove on 3 for over an hour) is the thermostat will take care of things but you will blow through some wood, but heat, if needed, takes priority over long burns!


----------



## Rossco

I haven't ran mine over the 'Norm' range for a prolong period of time. Not even during shoulder season. 

I have it on 1.5 now that's simulating 2.5 because of the voracious draft.


----------



## Niko

Ok how do i measure the danger zone tho while im watching it?  The stove top temps?  

Not to sound stupid tho but why would blaze king put a 3 or 3.5 if you cant actaully use it for a long perdiod of time?  Did i miss anything in the manual, let me go check..


----------



## Rossco

Niko said:


> Ok how do i measure the danger zone tho while im watching it?  The stove top temps?
> 
> Not to sound stupid tho but why would blaze king put a 3 or 3.5 if you cant actaully use it for a long perdiod of time?  Did i miss anything in the manual, let me go check..



Every set up is different. 

With my chimney and -10C to -30C weather, the draft is voracious, no way I could leave mine on 3. The outside of the Ultrablack stove pipe gets over 150C just charring the wood! It can seriously raw when on 3. 

If you have a weak draft then the stove  ain't sucking as much air in. 

That's my theory on the 1-3.5 stat.


----------



## tarzan

Yes, watch the stove top temp. Anything over 740 with your IR with fan off I would personaly bale.

Do you really need ^ to heat your home?


----------



## Niko

Well just read the manual again but sometimes I forget.  It states you can run on 3, with no restriction on time.


----------



## Niko

Ok thanks for temp guide.  My draft is awesome and i have no problems.  Stove is running great and is worth every single penny.   Just like to ask questions and learn.  As far as running it that hot well not always and rarely but I do like to make sure it does what it says.   

Kinda like having a really fast car, you dont always speed but its nice nowing whats happens when you press the gas pedal.


----------



## Rossco

Think I will stick to 1.5 cruise with occasional 2 when the moods right. 

I have super clean glass. Maybe it was the pine gumming it up. The Larch seems to burn super clean.


----------



## jeff_t

It's a steel stove. If you start approaching 800°, you should probably think about turning it down.

While I don't worry that much about it, burning at those high settings makes a lot of flame. I assume that's okay and the engineers designed the flame shield to do an adequate job of protecting the catalyst from flame impingement, but some folks get concerned about it.

If I need the heat, I don't hesitate to crank it up.


----------



## tarzan

Niko said:


> Well just read the manual again but sometimes I forget.  It states you can run on 3, with no restriction on time.



As Rossco aluded to, everybody's 3 is not the same. Draft, wood, and weather will play a factor. 

I don't remember my manual stating I can run on 3 with no restrictions but you may well be able to. 

Still, I would do a test run while I was there to monitor temps.

Again, Why?


----------



## tarzan

Ok. Never mind the, why? I type slow.


----------



## Niko

just read the manual again page 24.   From blazeking.com 

For a king stove
OPTIMAL THERMOSTAT SETTING

Any thermostat position between 1 (Low) and 3 (High) will produce the desired clean burning characteristics However, since each application can vary, you may find it necessary to operate the thermostat to suit your application. A thermostat setting on High will produce a maximum heat which is more than suitable for heating the average size home and offer the cleanest door glass.


----------



## 05ramctd

Been burning maple and red oak lately. Wife likes it warm so been burning on 2.5 mainly and 3 for under an hour off and on just fine tuning while I am at home, since I have been on midnight shift. Seems to be great heat, still lots of ash but I think some of the oak is not low enough moisture content but close.   Over night been keeping it in the normal range but tonight I left it on 2.5 just out of normal to see how it is when I get home.


----------



## Niko

Well now that the 20 degree weather is around im gonna leave mine at 2.5 as my stove is downstairs and we sleep upstairs.   Im still trying to figure out ways of bringing up the heat.  What im doing is working but i think I need to insulate some areas better.


----------



## Badger

When it drops down to 20-30f below I'm running on 2.5 to 2.75 with my fans on.  I get 7-8 hours burns there... Maybe a little less.


----------



## Rossco

Had her down on 1 last night. Turned her back up to 1.5 - 1.75 before work this morning. Loaded around 10pm. Still over 1/2 left at 05:30 this morning.

It was around 5F out side and 68F in.

I don't know, maybe some of you guys should have bought a king if you cannot cruise the Princess to maintain temps. With an exception for Badger, -30F that's -34C. Dam that's cold. 

People always say you will cut wood consumption by 1/3 with a BK Cat stove. Not on 6-8hr burns you ain't.


----------



## weatherguy

Parallax said:


> Starting to run into problems here. We finally got some cold weather with temps dropping into the 20s at night. If I run the stove high enough to get some serious heat, I wake up in the morning to find just ashes, the cat probe at zero (and the house temp at around 62 or so). If I set it low enough to maintain a long burn, the house is even colder.
> 
> I'm using Doug fir that isn't fully seasoned. Perhaps that's the problem. When I do a fresh split, I get anywhere from 22 to 24 percent moisture content. Picked up some wood that's more like 17% but the outsides are really wet because it was all left out in the open and it rains here a lot. I'm trying to get that stuff to dry out at the surface but it takes time because it's got some rot and that part has really gotten waterlogged. Right now those splits are unburnable.
> 
> The house is 2650 square feet with an open floor plan. Perhaps it's too big for the Ashford. We'll have a better sense once my wood is fully seasoned. That means we may not know until next year.


I was trying to heat 2800 sf with a princess, I knew it wouldn't 100% but I was just trying to cut down on the oil usage and it did that. I would have bought the King if it fit, now I have the Progress Hybrid.


----------



## jeff_t

weatherguy said:


> .....now I have the Progress Hybrid.



How's that going? Got it burning yet?


----------



## Niko

Rossco said:


> Had her down on 1 last night. Turned her back up to 1.5 - 1.75 before work this morning. Loaded around 10pm. Still over 1/2 left at 05:30 this morning.
> 
> It was around 5F out side and 68F in.
> 
> I don't know, maybe some of you guys should have bought a king if you cannot cruise the Princess to maintain temps. With an exception for Badger, -30F that's -34C. Dam that's cold.
> 
> People always say you will cut wood consumption by 1/3 with a BK Cat stove. Not on 6-8hr burns you ain't.



At 1 my down stairs stay around 70-75 depending how cold it is outside but its way to cold upstairs.  Def will redo all the attic insulation next year and see and take notes to compare.  If i can keep the upstairs around 70 its a winfor me and the stove around 2.5. Im getting at least 15+hr burn times with that


----------



## Parallax

weatherguy said:


> I was trying to heat 2800 sf with a princess, I knew it wouldn't 100% but I was just trying to cut down on the oil usage and it did that. I would have bought the King if it fit, now I have the Progress Hybrid.


I'm hoping better wood will make it workable. My wife would not have gone for a King. We may have to figure out ways to supplement in the coldest weather. 

It was cold last night, probably around 30 or high 20s. For around here, that's below what's normal for November. We had friends over. Cranked the stove and the place was comfortable (probably around 68 degrees). Ran it at 2.5 to 3.0 with the fan on for most of the night. Had to reload right when we served dinner as the heat output was going down. 

Loaded it up again before I went to bed last night, maybe around 10 pm. Turned it down to 2.0 and turned off the fan. Now, at noon, I came downstairs and there are just a couple of red coals. It's completely out of the active range and the house is cold. Loaded the box up with fir and am waiting to see if it lights without a firestarter. 

It seems we are asking a lot of the stove. I don't care about keeping the upstairs warm. Cooler is better for sleeping and we can supplement with electric room heaters. But the hot air is getting sucked upstairs and that's making it challenging to keep the downstairs reasonbly warm. It's 40 degrees outside at this moment and 62 inside.


----------



## webby3650

Parallax said:


> I'm hoping better wood will make it workable. My wife would not have gone for a King. We may have to figure out ways to supplement in the coldest weather.
> 
> It was cold last night, probably around 30 or high 20s. For around here, that's below what's normal for November. We had friends over. Cranked the stove and the place was comfortable (probably around 68 degrees). Ran it at 2.5 to 3.0 with the fan on for most of the night. Had to reload right when we served dinner as the heat output was going down.
> 
> Loaded it up again before I went to bed last night, maybe around 10 pm. Turned it down to 2.0 and turned off the fan. Now, at noon, I came downstairs and there are just a couple of red coals. It's completely out of the active range and the house is cold. Loaded the box up with fir and am waiting to see if it lights without a firestarter.
> 
> It seems we are asking a lot of the stove. I don't care about keeping the upstairs warm. Cooler is better for sleeping and we can supplement with electric room heaters. But the hot air is getting sucked upstairs and that's making it challenging to keep the downstairs reasonbly warm. It's 40 degrees outside at this moment and 62 inside.


You are asking a lot from the stove, especially with soft wood. 2,650 feet in a cold climate would be a task for any stove as a sole source of heat. You must supplement.


----------



## Shane Collins

Parallax said:


> I'm hoping better wood will make it workable. My wife would not have gone for a King. We may have to figure out ways to supplement in the coldest weather.
> 
> It was cold last night, probably around 30 or high 20s. For around here, that's below what's normal for November. We had friends over. Cranked the stove and the place was comfortable (probably around 68 degrees). Ran it at 2.5 to 3.0 with the fan on for most of the night. Had to reload right when we served dinner as the heat output was going down.
> 
> Loaded it up again before I went to bed last night, maybe around 10 pm. Turned it down to 2.0 and turned off the fan. Now, at noon, I came downstairs and there are just a couple of red coals. It's completely out of the active range and the house is cold. Loaded the box up with fir and am waiting to see if it lights without a firestarter.
> 
> It seems we are asking a lot of the stove. I don't care about keeping the upstairs warm. Cooler is better for sleeping and we can supplement with electric room heaters. But the hot air is getting sucked upstairs and that's making it challenging to keep the downstairs reasonbly warm. It's 40 degrees outside at this moment and 62 inside.



Our house is 2500 sq ft and the Ashford seems to be doing fine.  For the upstairs I close all the doors so only the hallway is getting the heat, that seemed to help us, a hour or so before bed you can open the bedroom door for a little warmth.  I suspect soft wood that isn't seasoned too well.  Are you planning on getting some compressed wood bricks and try an overnight burn with that?  That could be the best way to identify your problem.  Good luck!


----------



## Poindexter

Here I thought I was a genius and we got another thread going about "wood coal sifters", oodles of images on google of folks that already solved this problem.  I guess if I would have logged in before I got inspired I would have come up with the same solution.  

What happened was i got into both some colder weather and some damper wood at the same time.  Looking critically at it i think I got some larger birch splits from the shady rather than sunny side of my pile that measure about 20% MC per electronic gizmo.  The stove runs them OK, but not great, and they make a bunch of ash.  Unfortunately I was working a lot of hours last week and pretty much had to burn them or burn oil.  I found a place for the rest of them so I can pull them and season another year, but I got home from church today with a cool house and about 6" of mixed ash and coals in the bottom of my Ashford.

I hit upon an idea.  I have this thing I made for my grill over the summer.  I love grilled shrimp, marinated in butter, garlic and citrus juice, but I hate the taste of shrimp cooked over burning butter.  So I made basically a box of expanded metal, about 4x4 inches on the end, 10 inches long and open on the top.  Get a chimney full of charcoal going, tong the burning charcoal into what is essentially a homemade grate, and then grill the shrimp beside the grate so the melted butter misses the burning charcoal as it drips off the shrimp.  pic 1.

Pic 2 is the grate and a pair of channel locks in front of my stove.

pic 3 is done, all the coals too big to fit through the expanded metal stayed in the stove, all the wee tiny coals that did fit through the expanded metal ended up in the ash bucket.

I tried putting the metal thingy in the bucket, shoveling mix in there and then shaking, but I got quite an ash plume into the room.  Better was to fill the grate in the firebox, shake the grate in the firebox and then shovel the sifted ashes into the bucket as a separate step.  Three thousand words to follow....


----------



## weatherguy

jeff_t said:


> How's that going? Got it burning yet?


Connecting it Tuesday, hoping the higher horse power saves more oil.


----------



## drz1050

weatherguy said:


> Connecting it Tuesday, hoping the higher horse power saves more oil.



The Progress Hybrid has the same size firebox as the Princess, and they're both rated at 81% efficiency.. what higher HP do you mean?

The Ideal Steel is larger.


----------



## Parallax

Shane Collins said:


> Our house is 2500 sq ft and the Ashford seems to be doing fine.  For the upstairs I close all the doors so only the hallway is getting the heat, that seemed to help us, a hour or so before bed you can open the bedroom door for a little warmth.  I suspect soft wood that isn't seasoned too well.  Are you planning on getting some compressed wood bricks and try an overnight burn with that?  That could be the best way to identify your problem.  Good luck!


Thanks. Good idea about opening the upstairs doors an hour before bed. We've been doing alright today. Just keeping the stove running hot. For overnight, I'll have to set it low so it keeps up through the night, but then in the morning I can fire it right up. 

Where's the best place to get some compressed wood bricks? I'll have to try some. Meanwhile, I've gotten myself another pickup truck load of old wood that been sitting out for a while. This last week has been dry so, unlike last weekend, the stuff I picked up isn't waterlogged. I've begun stacking it behind my woodshed (which is completely full with more than ten cords). The shed has an overhang. I put some 2 X 4s on the ground to keep the wood off the dirt. I'll leave it all back there a few weeks and then see if it's ready to use. Just the outer layer has to dry. Once that happens, it should burn well. The inner part of that stuff is 17% or lower. The cold winds seem to do a pretty good job whisking away moisture.


----------



## NinjaTech

Did a little experiment over the weekend, I was at menards and they have those 'eco' brand compressed bricks. Grabbed a bunch of those just to play around with, wanted to go for the long burn. Cleaned out a bunch of ash, raked all coals to the front and loaded up about 4 1/2 packages nice and tight. I was able to get three layers of them in there with enough room left for the bricks to expand. It was just under 100lbs worth. This was friday night around 7pm. Threw a smaller split right on the coals in front to help get the front of the bricks going. The goal was to have the pile to burn from the front to the back nice and slow. Cat started around 1,200F when first getting going, then settled down in to the 800-1000f range for a solid 30 hours then started to drop towards 500 and figured it was time to reload. When I opened it up i noticed the entire bottom layer of bricks had not even burned yet! The ash from the top two layers appeared to be blocking the air to the bottom layer. I stired things up to knock all the ash off and get some air to the bottom layer and they took right off. Cat back up to the 800-1000f range and just kept on going till 8pm last night when the rest of the bricks were ash. Temps outside were 19-32 the entire time, stove room never went under 73. So I ended up with a 49 hour burn on a single load of fuel, with only one maintenance 'stir'. Those things just go, and go and go. That defiantly won't become my normal running procedure, I have a few packages left and when those are gone I'll switch back to regular wood, but it was a fun little experiment.


----------



## tarzan

Thanks for the info Ninja Tech. Interesting.

I get a v shaped burn with cord wood and have noticed if I get the stove packed tight there is usually a half a piece against each outer wall buried in the ashes.


----------



## NinjaTech

The compressed wood bricks did the same thing, but not as severe as cord wood seemed too. It was more of a shallow u shape, instead of the cord wood where it just seems to burn right down the middle.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Thanks for the info Ninja Tech. Interesting.
> 
> I get a v shaped burn with cord wood and have noticed if I get the stove packed tight there is usually a half a piece against each outer wall buried in the ashes.


 
My loads always burn out this way. Middle first. My routine on reload is to flop the last log out of each side into the middle, they are usually burning slow, and then reload the stove on top of them. Yes, my ash accumulation is in the center.


----------



## Shane Collins

49 hour burn, pretty impressive.  I might have to give it a try just for fun when the cold weather really kicks in.

Parallax, I've seen the eco brick things at lowes and home depot.  Not sure what you have where you are but I assume they both will be around or some other big hardware store.  You should be able to get hold of some.  Possibly your stove dealer would be a good person to ask?  Good luck and let us know how it goes when you find some and try it out.


----------



## AlaskanChick

okay,
so i fixed my knob on my BK last week. it was working up until the knob fell off. so I dont know what i did wrong. Please help


----------



## Parallax

NinjaTech said:


> Did a little experiment over the weekend, I was at menards and they have those 'eco' brand compressed bricks. Grabbed a bunch of those just to play around with, wanted to go for the long burn. Cleaned out a bunch of ash, raked all coals to the front and loaded up about 4 1/2 packages nice and tight. I was able to get three layers of them in there with enough room left for the bricks to expand. It was just under 100lbs worth. This was friday night around 7pm. Threw a smaller split right on the coals in front to help get the front of the bricks going. The goal was to have the pile to burn from the front to the back nice and slow. Cat started around 1,200F when first getting going, then settled down in to the 800-1000f range for a solid 30 hours then started to drop towards 500 and figured it was time to reload. When I opened it up i noticed the entire bottom layer of bricks had not even burned yet! The ash from the top two layers appeared to be blocking the air to the bottom layer. I stired things up to knock all the ash off and get some air to the bottom layer and they took right off. Cat back up to the 800-1000f range and just kept on going till 8pm last night when the rest of the bricks were ash. Temps outside were 19-32 the entire time, stove room never went under 73. So I ended up with a 49 hour burn on a single load of fuel, with only one maintenance 'stir'. Those things just go, and go and go. That defiantly won't become my normal running procedure, I have a few packages left and when those are gone I'll switch back to regular wood, but it was a fun little experiment.



How much did it set you back for enough logs to stuff your stove? Also, which size box do you have?


----------



## tarzan

Sounds like you just didn't tighten it enough. Back the set screw off until the knob will slide back on. Repeat directions Shane posted and re tighten set screw.


----------



## NinjaTech

Parallax said:


> How much did it set you back for enough logs to stuff your stove? Also, which size box do you have?



I used about 4 1/2 packages of blocks (20lbs/package), i think they were 3.29 each. So around 15 bucks to fully fill it for two days. Those blocks do seem quite a bit more expensive than cord wood around here, i got 10 packs of them more just to play around with and 'try out' compared to how regular cord wood burns. I do have to say, I really do like them and would burn them full time if they were not so expensive. They really are convenient and do really burn well. I have heard our rural king out here has 40lb packages of compressed wood blocks for 4.99. I may try to make it out and try those too. The cost per pound on those is getting low enough I may consider using this more if they do actually burn as well as the 'eco' brand ones.

Should hit single digits tonight, bring it weather! I'm ready!


----------



## Parallax

NinjaTech said:


> I used about 4 1/2 packages of blocks (20lbs/package), i think they were 3.29 each. So around 15 bucks to fully fill it for two days. Those blocks do seem quite a bit more expensive than cord wood around here, i got 10 packs of them more just to play around with and 'try out' compared to how regular cord wood burns. I do have to say, I really do like them and would burn them full time if they were not so expensive. They really are convenient and do really burn well. I have heard our rural king out here has 40lb packages of compressed wood blocks for 4.99. I may try to make it out and try those too. The cost per pound on those is getting low enough I may consider using this more if they do actually burn as well as the 'eco' brand ones.
> 
> Should hit single digits tonight, bring it weather! I'm ready!


What size is your stove?


----------



## NinjaTech

Parallax said:


> What size is your stove?



Oh, sorry.. 2.85cu ft. Its a new princess insert. I'm sure someone with a king freestander could go most of a week without reloading on those things.


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## NinjaTech

Actually.. That's a good question, I was thinking it was 2.85cu ft. If you look on blaze kings website on some places it says the insert is 2.54, and some places say 2.85. Does anyone know for sure what size this thing actually is?

If you look at:

http://blazeking.com/EN/wood-princess-insert.html

it says 2.85, but if you click on the brochure thats on that same page it says 2.54.


----------



## tarzan

If you send me 5 packs of Eco Bricks I can tell you how many fit in the 2.85 Princess stove. This should solve it


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## NinjaTech

Pretty sure the shipping would cost me more than the bricks themselves.


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## RustyShackleford

tarzan said:


> Sounds like you just didn't tighten it enough. Back the set screw off until the knob will slide back on. Repeat directions Shane posted and re tighten set screw.


It would be cool if the shaft (that connects the knob to the thermostat) had a flat place on it.   (this is fairly common in electronic equipment).  That way there would be no confusion about where the knob should be positioned, and although it could still fall off, at least it could not slip and get into the wrong position.    If BKVP is listening ...


----------



## NinjaTech

RustyShackleford said:


> It would be cool if the shaft (that connects the knob to the thermostat) had a flat place on it.   (this is fairly common in electronic equipment).  That way there would be no confusion about where the knob should be positioned, and although it could still fall off, at least it could not slip and get into the wrong position.    If BKVP is listening ...



That is true.. The rheostat knob is like that.


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## Highbeam

Do


NinjaTech said:


> I used about 4 1/2 packages of blocks (20lbs/package), i think they were 3.29 each. So around 15 bucks to fully fill it for two days. Those blocks do seem quite a bit more expensive than cord wood around here, i got 10 packs of them more just to play around with and 'try out' compared to how regular cord wood burns. I do have to say, I really do like them and would burn them full time if they were not so expensive. They really are convenient and do really burn well. I have heard our rural king out here has 40lb packages of compressed wood blocks for 4.99. I may try to make it out and try those too. The cost per pound on those is getting low enough I may consider using this more if they do actually burn as well as the 'eco' brand ones.
> 
> Should hit single digits tonight, bring it weather! I'm ready!


 

Would you say that they burn cleaner than cordwood? Our clean air agencies claim far lower emissions from manufactured firewood and while I would not want to use them all the time I could see using them when pollution levels are high, when I want to burn without smoke, or when I want an especially long burn time for some reason.

Did the bricks blacken your glass more or less than cordwood?

Did the chimney smoke more or less than cordwood?


----------



## Rickb

NinjaTech said:


> I used about 4 1/2 packages of blocks (20lbs/package), i think they were 3.29 each. So around 15 bucks to fully fill it for two days. Those blocks do seem quite a bit more expensive than cord wood around here, i got 10 packs of them more just to play around with and 'try out' compared to how regular cord wood burns. I do have to say, I really do like them and would burn them full time if they were not so expensive. They really are convenient and do really burn well. I have heard our rural king out here has 40lb packages of compressed wood blocks for 4.99. I may try to make it out and try those too. The cost per pound on those is getting low enough I may consider using this more if they do actually burn as well as the 'eco' brand ones.
> 
> Should hit single digits tonight, bring it weather! I'm ready!




Some Menards(Not any near us...), still have the grenheat 38pound compressed log packs at $2.50 on clearance.  I use these and they work great!  Have not tried a whole stove full.  Maybe once its -20f outside. lol


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## BKVP

RustyShackleford said:


> It would be cool if the shaft (that connects the knob to the thermostat) had a flat place on it.   (this is fairly common in electronic equipment).  That way there would be no confusion about where the knob should be positioned, and although it could still fall off, at least it could not slip and get into the wrong position.    If BKVP is listening ...


Rusty...it was implemented 30 days ago...just working through stock...clever minds think alike!!


----------



## NinjaTech

Highbeam said:


> Would you say that they burn cleaner than cordwood? Our clean air agencies claim far lower emissions from manufactured firewood and while I would not want to use them all the time I could see using them when pollution levels are high, when I want to burn without smoke, or when I want an especially long burn time for some reason.
> 
> Did the bricks blacken your glass more or less than cordwood?
> 
> Did the chimney smoke more or less than cordwood?



They do soot up the glass, i'd say its comparable to cord wood for the most part. Since it was not super cold out side, I had it turned down pretty far though too. I'm sure if you were running it hotter it would stay pretty clean due to the low moisture though. The best way I could think to describe how they burn is almost like an incense stick. Once up and going they really never flame at all unless you turn the air way up, and if they do flame it really looks much more like the secondary flames from a non-cat stove, but they do produce a TON of smoke in the firebox if there is no flame and that makes for a VERY happy and bright catalyst. Smoke out the pipe is non-existent though, the only thing you can see is white water vapor that looks identical to the vapor being produced by all the other houses on my street that burn natural gas. I will say though when you open the door and have the bypass open you could smoke out the entire neighborhood though, after the first 30 hours when i opened the stove to give it a stir i finished, closed the door and bypass and looked out the front window to see a PLUME out the front window, i mean pea soup thick smoke. I freaked a little ran out side but by the time I got out there, the cat was back in action and it was just back to wisps of white water vapor out the pipe, but you could still see the plume slowly working its way down the street a few houses down. By the time I got back in side the pyrometer was showing a fairly steady 1,000f again. 

Once kinda cool/interesting thing I noticed while watching them burn though. After the burn was established well, if i turned the air up enough and visible flames appeared in the firebox was how much/quickly the catalyst temperature dropped. Since the smoke was being consumed by fire before the cat, the cat had much less to eat and its temp would fall. As soon as the flames died out, cat temp would jump back up a few hundred degrees over the next minute or so.



Rickb said:


> Some Menards(Not any near us...), still have the grenheat 38pound compressed log packs at $2.50 on clearance.  I use these and they work great!  Have not tried a whole stove full.  Maybe once its -20f outside. lol




Ours wouldn't anymore either if they had 38lb packs for 2.50. I would have bought them out! And load that thing up! That's what the thermostat is for, fill that sucker up, turn it down and enjoy not having to touch it for over a day straight!


----------



## NinjaTech

BKVP said:


> Rusty...it was implemented 30 days ago...just working through stock...clever minds think alike!!



So your going to send us all updated thermostats right?


----------



## Rossco

30hrs is impressive never mind 49.

Hard to believe there was any useful heat for the entire time.

My Thermo knob was slightly loose new, it would rock a few degrees either way. Tightened the grub screw and its perfectly fine. 

The extra work on the thermo shaft and the requirment for 100% alignment is Gonna add another $50 to the price of a new stove I imagine.


----------



## NinjaTech

Rossco said:


> 30hrs is impressive never mind 49.
> 
> Hard to believe there was any useful heat for the entire time.



It wasn't super cold out, 20's to low 30's so I wouldn't expect that at the middle of the winter when its single digits or negative for days on end. But when it does get that cold, I will probably do that little experiement again! It did keep 1,500sf first floor at 70+ though. Basement was only a couple degrees behind.


----------



## Shane Collins

AlaskanChick said:


> okay,
> so i fixed my knob on my BK last week. it was working up until the knob fell off. so I dont know what i did wrong. Please help



Mine came loose again, I figured I just didn't tighten it enough.  The alan key used to tighten it is so small I was worried about breaking it if I tried to tighten it too much.  I just re set it and tightened it as much as I could.

Glad to hear you're changing how the thermostat knob fits.  Any way for us to replace what we have for the new kind?


----------



## drz1050

Shane Collins said:


> Mine came loose again, I figured I just didn't tighten it enough.  The alan key used to tighten it is so small I was worried about breaking it if I tried to tighten it too much.  I just re set it and tightened it as much as I could.
> 
> Glad to hear you're changing how the thermostat knob fits.  Any way for us to replace what we have for the new kind?



Throw some JB Weld on there once you get it set correctly, won't have to worry about it moving again.


----------



## claybe

drz1050 said:


> Throw some JB Weld on there once you get it set correctly, won't have to worry about it moving again.


Was there a post on how to "reset" the tstat in case it may have moved?


----------



## drz1050

claybe said:


> Was there a post on how to "reset" the tstat in case it may have moved?



Quoted from BKVP: 

_"Turn the rod clockwise until the rod will turn no more and comes to a natural stop. This may require a small pair of pliers depending upon hand or grip strength. 
Now turn the knob clockwise until the white line is pointing straight down to the 6 o'clock position. Tighten the hex screw using your allen wrench. 
Our apologies for this having come loose. It doesn't happen very often at all but it does a few times each year."_


----------



## forkedhorn

Ok, so I have been a lurker here through the summer. You guys have really helped me out deciding which stove to get and I am proud to say I ended up with a princess. Weather here is really mild so the low and slow is a huge benefit. I have been lucky enough to get some 32 hour burns with enough coals to start a new load on less than a full box of semi seasoned oak and a short flue height (13' with two 90s) crazy! However with those slow burns I had some serious build up of creo on the inside. I decided to do the one hour clean out like BKVP has suggested and at 50 minutes I took a peek and seen the box that holds the cat GLOWING and the thermostat way past active! I didn't think it could go that far! I shut it down right away. Worried, I decided to ask the pros if I might have done damage or if that is normal for a new stove? Hopefully the pic I attached shows up. The needle was pointing at the "g" in king.


----------



## HotCoals

forkedhorn said:


> Ok, so I have been a lurker here through the summer. You guys have really helped me out deciding which stove to get and I am proud to say I ended up with a princess. Weather here is really mild so the low and slow is a huge benefit. I have been lucky enough to get some 32 hour burns with enough coals to start a new load on less than a full box of semi seasoned oak and a short flue height (13' with two 90s) crazy! However with those slow burns I had some serious build up of creo on the inside. I decided to do the one hour clean out like BKVP has suggested and at 50 minutes I took a peek and seen the box that holds the cat GLOWING and the thermostat way past active! I didn't think it could go that far! I shut it down right away. Worried, I decided to ask the pros if I might have done damage or if that is normal for a new stove? Hopefully the pic I attached shows up. The needle was pointing at the "g" in king.



The cat really likes to get hot for a few fires..maybe a week.
Don't worry too much about it.
Cheers!


----------



## BKVP

Rossco said:


> 30hrs is impressive never mind 49.
> 
> Hard to believe there was any useful heat for the entire time.
> 
> My Thermo knob was slightly loose new, it would rock a few degrees either way. Tightened the grub screw and its perfectly fine.
> 
> The extra work on the thermo shaft and the requirment for 100% alignment is Gonna add another $50 to the price of a new stove I imagine.


Please make your check payable to: BKVP


----------



## BKVP

NinjaTech said:


> So your going to send us all updated thermostats right?


No that would be not necessary....but I might stop by with a file and put a flat spot on there for you.  There is no retrofit...


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> Please make your check payable to: BKVP



Already paid my dept twice over.

It's the next generation of BK owners who are gonna need a bank loan to buy a basic unit if 'Every flaw' was engineered out of a wood stove.

Then you will get the 'Cannot buy Pretty' Crowd.


----------



## Doug Morford

Thought I'd join this thread since I'm a new-to-me owner of a BKK KEJ-1101 now.  I love the stove, and have easily been getting over 24 hr burns with it.  I'm still learning though.  Adding wood to hot coals has been leading to a VERY hot cat for about 4 hrs before it settles into a more even burn.  The picture attached is a graph of some temperatures I've been monitoring.  I had loaded it at around midnight, and didn't start recording temps till around 3am.  The stove temps are on the left axis, and the outside/room temps are on the right axis.  My goal is to tame these wild fluctuations caused by the thermostat opening and closing.  I think it's just a matter of timing as I get the load going.  I'll be closing the bypass on this next burn immediately, and setting the thermostat to just cracked open so it will close down pretty quick as it gets hot.  Any thoughts?

-Doug


----------



## tarzan

Shane Collins said:


> Mine came loose again, I figured I just didn't tighten it enough.  The alan key used to tighten it is so small I was worried about breaking it if I tried to tighten it too much.  I just re set it and tightened it as much as I could.
> 
> Glad to hear you're changing how the thermostat knob fits.  Any way for us to replace what we have for the new kind?



I did over torque mine. I now have two 1/2 knobs, waiting on the new one to show up. I will do something to see to it it stays put this time. Maybe flat spot the rod with a grinder.

I don't suppose exact calibration is totally necessary other than for the sake of setting discussions here. It would be nice though to have some reassurance the knob wasn't slipping out of place. Especially since the draft opening itself is covered so there's really no other visible reference


----------



## tarzan

Doug Morford said:


> Thought I'd join this thread since I'm a new-to-me owner of a BKK KEJ-1101 now.  I love the stove, and have easily been getting over 24 hr burns with it.  I'm still learning though.  Adding wood to hot coals has been leading to a VERY hot cat for about 4 hrs before it settles into a more even burn.  The picture attached is a graph of some temperatures I've been monitoring.  I had loaded it at around midnight, and didn't start recording temps till around 3am.  The stove temps are on the left axis, and the outside/room temps are on the right axis.  My goal is to tame these wild fluctuations caused by the thermostat opening and closing.  I think it's just a matter of timing as I get the load going.  I'll be closing the bypass on this next burn immediately, and setting the thermostat to just cracked open so it will close down pretty quick as it gets hot.  Any thoughts?
> 
> -Doug



Looks like your cat should be stalled around hour 5?

I only have a Rutland on my stove top but I don't see much temp. variation once load is established. 

As an example, stove top was at 450*F from two hours before I went to bed last night until I went to bed. When I woke this morning, still at 450


----------



## Doug Morford

I have it set pretty low, 1.5.  It definitely never stalled though.  The cat thermometer hovered aroun 10:30-11:30 once it settled down.  My temp probes might react quite a bit faster than a bi-metallic thermometer, so it might look worse here than it appears on a stove thermometer.  From the graph, it really seems like the thermostat is always one step behind the cat.


----------



## tarzan

To be honest, I'm looking at the graph on an I phone through old eyes so it is hard for me to take it all in.

Until you pointed it out, I didn't pay much attention to the chimney temps. That is interesting.


Will be interesting to see what may change once you run the stove harder.


----------



## blueguy

BKVP said:


> Rusty...it was implemented 30 days ago...just working through stock...clever minds think alike!!


 
Here is another idea for the t-stat - what about a knob assembly that turns the shaft at a 90* angle for those stoves in an alcove or corner installation, i.e. something along the lines of the insert t-stat knob, but in the same location as the freestander? That way, when setting the t-stat in a corner or alcove install, one could look at the knob from the front of the stove instead of trying to manoeuvre around to try and look at the setting in the rear


----------



## Highbeam

Doug Morford said:


> Thought I'd join this thread since I'm a new-to-me owner of a BKK KEJ-1101 now.  I love the stove, and have easily been getting over 24 hr burns with it.  I'm still learning though.  Adding wood to hot coals has been leading to a VERY hot cat for about 4 hrs before it settles into a more even burn.  The picture attached is a graph of some temperatures I've been monitoring.  I had loaded it at around midnight, and didn't start recording temps till around 3am.  The stove temps are on the left axis, and the outside/room temps are on the right axis.  My goal is to tame these wild fluctuations caused by the thermostat opening and closing.  I think it's just a matter of timing as I get the load going.  I'll be closing the bypass on this next burn immediately, and setting the thermostat to just cracked open so it will close down pretty quick as it gets hot.  Any thoughts?
> 
> -Doug


 
Cool graph doug. I don't see a cat meter graphed so stovetop is literally stovetop? The two swinging lines that follow each other are flue and STT which makes sense since the thicker steel stove will be slower to heat than the flue gasses.

I sure do like how you can see the stat work. You got at least 13 obvious cycles. Compare that to the yahoo with a non-stat equipped stove that would have to get up and adjust his air setting 26 times in the same period. Some folks, okay one guy, thinks that the stats don't do anything on these stoves. Ha!


----------



## Doug Morford

Highbeam said:


> Cool graph doug. I don't see a cat meter graphed so stovetop is literally stovetop? The two swinging lines that follow each other are flue and STT which makes sense since the thicker steel stove will be slower to heat than the flue gasses.
> 
> I sure do like how you can see the stat work. You got at least 13 obvious cycles. Compare that to the yahoo with a non-stat equipped stove that would have to get up and adjust his air setting 26 times in the same period. Some folks, okay one guy, thinks that the stats don't do anything on these stoves. Ha!


Yep, the probe is sitting right next to the cat probe on the stove top. And I agree about the thermostat. I've had the lid off so I can watch it, and it is very reactive. It definitely has a big effect on performance.


----------



## tarzan

Well, I'm not the guy who thinks the thermostat don't do much. In fact, I have no doubt it does.

But I am anxious to see the comparison when the outside temps drop even more and you run the stove harder, around 450 to 500*F. My guess is the peaks and valleys won't be as promominant as I think the draft will play a bigger role in maintaining temps.


----------



## Doug Morford

I completely agree with the higher setting smoothing out the curve.  The equipment I'm using to measure temps is actually a controller for BBQs that turns a fan on and off to control the pit temp.  On some of the lower temperature cooks I get these same oscillations, but if I turn it up a bit they smooth right out.


----------



## Doug Morford

I think a big part of it is that when the thermostat is turned down low, we don't get the full range of the air damper.  Once the stove gets hot, it closes tight and it takes a bit of a temperature swing to open it back up.  If the thermostat is turned up more, I'll probably get the full range of the damper and it will be able to react to temperature changes more quickly at the low end.


----------



## Highbeam

Doug Morford said:


> I think a big part of it is that when the thermostat is turned down low, we don't get the full range of the air damper.  Once the stove gets hot, it closes tight and it takes a bit of a temperature swing to open it back up.  If the thermostat is turned up more, I'll probably get the full range of the damper and it will be able to react to temperature changes more quickly at the low end.


 
You're right. If the stat is slammed shut and preloaded shut by a super low setting then the coil has to overcome that preload before the throttle blade can even move at all. So if you are unable to use the middle range of the stat then you may have never experienced thermosatic stove control.


----------



## Rossco

blueguy said:


> Here is another idea for the t-stat - what about a knob assembly that turns the shaft at a 90* angle for those stoves in an alcove or corner installation, i.e. something along the lines of the insert t-stat knob, but in the same location as the freestander? That way, when setting the t-stat in a corner or alcove install, one could look at the knob from the front of the stove instead of trying to manoeuvre around to try and look at the setting in the rear



Hey if 'Lego' can do it so can BK. 

Options Options Options. 

I'de offer a door shim kit @ 10 times cost etc.


----------



## Doug Morford

Upon reading through this thread a little more, it's interesting to see the differing opinions on the operation of the stat.  I think what some are considering "not very active", does more to control the fire than one might think.  On my start up from a few coals left with the cat still just active, I set my stat to 1.75 which opened the flap about 3/8".  In my opinion, that's pretty much full throttle.  The difference in resistance to air flow beyond this is probably minimal considering what would happen if the flap were to stay at 3/8" open through the entire burn (HOT!).  I closed the bypass immediately, and just let the stat throttle it down as the cat warmed up.  After 15-20 mins, the cat probe was at high noon and the stat had closed the air flap completely... good to go.  After that, I set the stat to 1.5 and let it do it's thing.  At that point, the peaks in my graph were being caused by the stat opening up only 1/16" to 1/8", which is apparently responsive enough to reign full control over the burn.  I will agree though that outdoor temps/chimney design probably influence how reactive the stat is going to be.


----------



## tarzan

Doug Morford said:


> Upon reading through this thread a little more, it's interesting to see the differing opinions on the operation of the stat.  I think what some are considering "not very active", does more to control the fire than one might think.  On my start up from a few coals left with the cat still just active, I set my stat to 1.75 which opened the flap about 3/8".  In my opinion, that's pretty much full throttle.  The difference in resistance to air flow beyond this is probably minimal considering what would happen if the flap were to stay at 3/8" open through the entire burn (HOT!).  I closed the bypass immediately, and just let the stat throttle it down as the cat warmed up.  After 15-20 mins, the cat probe was at high noon and the stat had closed the air flap completely... good to go.  After that, I set the stat to 1.5 and let it do it's thing.  At that point, the peaks in my graph were being caused by the stat opening up only 1/16" to 1/8", which is apparently responsive enough to reign full control over the burn.  I will agree though that outdoor temps/chimney design probably influence how reactive the stat is going to be.



I think your assumptions are close. I've had the cover off the T-stat for a few weeks now (since I broke the knob) and it seems that no matter how much heat I want from the stove the flapper always ends up near closed. Small amounts of movement from the thermostat controls the stove from there.


----------



## 05ramctd

Hello all, the past couple of days I have been getting lots of coals. Yes I have been loading it up running at 2, and 3 for about an hour off and on.  Any Ideas?  Over night I burn it at 2 - 2.5 since its cold.  During the day same and on 3 to burn up the coals.


----------



## jeffsk7

I would agree as well.  My sr30.  Burns fast and hot until about 1.75 then it is very touchy from that point.


----------



## tarzan

05ramctd said:


> Hello all, the past couple of days I have been getting lots of coals. Yes I have been loading it up running at 2, and 3 for about an hour off and on.  Any Ideas?  Over night I burn it at 2 - 2.5 since its cold.  During the day same and on 3 to burn up the coals.



It could be your wood but more likely it's just from reloading the stove before it completes its burn cycle do to the colder weather.


----------



## Parallax

I've no idea what goes on behind the scenes inside my stove and its thermostat. I just know it's an amazing little monster.

I seem to be figuring out how to deal with the cold weather. When we're home, I turn it up to 2.5 with the fan on and it blows through enough hot air to keep the house warm. If we need to heat up fast, I might run it even hotter. It uses up wood that way but I'm there to reload. At night and when leaving for work, I load it up, char the wood for a few minutes and then set the t-stat down to 2 (with the fan off). That keeps the box from burning down to cold ash. The house may be cool but it's warm enough to get it heated up quick in the morning or when we return home.

This is with temperatures running in the high 20s and low 30s. When it gets even colder, we'll see. But given that I'm still working with fir that's not really well seasoned, I think we'll be fine. Perhaps we'll need compressed wood bricks or dryer, harder wood. However, we're not supplementing and maybe we won't have to.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax said:


> I've no idea what goes on behind the scenes inside my stove and its thermostat. I just know it's an amazing little monster.
> 
> I seem to be figuring out how to deal with the cold weather. When we're home, I turn it up to 2.5 with the fan on and it blows through enough hot air to keep the house warm. If we need to heat up fast, I might run it even hotter. It uses up wood that way but I'm there to reload. At night and when leaving for work, I load it up, char the wood for a few minutes and then set the t-stat down to 2 (with the fan off). That keeps the box from burning down to cold ash. The house may be cool but it's warm enough to get it heated up quick in the morning or when we return home.
> 
> This is with temperatures running in the high 20s and low 30s. When it gets even colder, we'll see. But given that I'm still working with fir that's not really well seasoned, I think we'll be fine. Perhaps we'll need compressed wood bricks or dryer, harder wood. However, we're not supplementing and maybe we won't have to.



Good to hear. You may never quite get to the point were you can heat solely with one stove but if not it sounds like you can seriously reduce your heat bill.

What about the smoke smell you were getting. Did you ever figure out a cause or did it just go away?


----------



## Parallax

tarzan said:


> Good to hear. You may never quite get to the point were you can heat solely with one stove but if not it sounds like you can seriously reduce your heat bill.
> 
> What about the smoke smell you were getting. Did you ever figure out a cause or did it just go away?


Thanks for asking. I've got the dealer coming out on Friday to sniff for himself. The wood smoke is still coming off the top of the stove, I assume through the probe hole but maybe there's a defect somewhere. If it is through the probe, Chris' best guess is it's due to lack of draft. How best to deal with that is what we'll discuss. I'm guessing he'll suggest going up another four foot section and figuring out a way to secure it so it can't blow down.


----------



## Rossco

Yeah am still some what confused, I get the same heat running on 1.5 as I do on 2-3. More heat in the firebox rarther than up the flue. 

I might try one if these mystical 2.5 burns this week once I go on days off.


----------



## tarzan

Rossco said:


> Yeah am still some what confused, I get the same heat running on 1.5 as I do on 2-3. More heat in the firebox rarther than up the flue.
> 
> I might try one if these mystical 2.5 burns this week once I go on days off.



Not exactly but at 1.5 my stove runs at 400*F and 525*F on 2.5

Again, not exact temps. Just ballpark for reference. That's with the fan running on low.


----------



## Gareth96

18F outside and I think I need to open a window..


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> You're right. If the stat is slammed shut and preloaded shut by a super low setting then the coil has to overcome that preload before the throttle blade can even move at all. So if you are unable to use the middle range of the stat then you may have never experienced thermosatic stove control.


Highbeam...dead right!  Hot load slams blade shut, turning down burn rate rapidly increases amount of time needed by thermostat spring to react and open enough to allows oxygen into firebox... (Whole in blade ring a bell?)


----------



## BKVP

tarzan said:


> It could be your wood but more likely it's just from reloading the stove before it completes its burn cycle do to the colder weather.


All species of wood have coaling properties...some vastly different than others.  Google "coaling properties of firewood".


----------



## tarzan

BKVP said:


> All species of wood have coaling properties...some vastly different than others.  Google "coaling properties of firewood".



I don't get what you are trying to say.

05ramctd stated that he has had a problem with coals "for the last couple of days".

Assuming he is getting his wood from the same stack he was three days ago the one thing I know has changed is it got dam cold! 

Also, aware that not even a thief stuck in the chimney could be completely ruled out from where I set, I did start the post by saying "it could be your wood"


----------



## drz1050

It could be gremlins


----------



## Shane Collins

Rossco said:


> Yeah am still some what confused, I get the same heat running on 1.5 as I do on 2-3. More heat in the firebox rarther than up the flue.
> 
> I might try one if these mystical 2.5 burns this week once I go on days off.



Running on 1.5 isn't enough for me.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong?  I make sure the wood is good and charred before I shut it down.  Usually after 30ish minutes with the thermostat on 3.5.  I tried running it on 1.5 but when I wake up it's usually below 60 in here.  The cat is still in the active zone it's just not putting out enough heat.  Am I doing something wrong here?  I know all houses are different etc but I don't feel the heat output at 1.5 is very high, certainly nothing close to 2.5 or 3.

Even running on 2.5 almost 24/7 I'm getting close to 24 hour burns.


----------



## jeff_t

Rossco said:


> Yeah am still some what confused, I get the same heat running on 1.5 as I do on 2-3. More heat in the firebox rarther than up the flue.
> 
> I might try one if these mystical 2.5 burns this week once I go on days off.



I don't see much difference on my stove top thermometer, which is placed right over the cat. When the cat is at the top end of the active range, I get the same temp whether at 1.5 or 2.5. The difference is when there is active fire in the box at higher settings, the whole stove is making a bunch of heat, especially from the front and heat radiated thru the glass.


----------



## Shane Collins

I'm sure it's been covered before but what stove top thermometers are you using and how do you use that data with a BK?


----------



## jeff_t

Cheap Rutland magnetic, for reference only. I could get along fine without. 

It's actually not too bad, reads 50-75° more than my IR at higher temps (600 or more).


----------



## Rossco

Shane Collins said:


> Running on 1.5 isn't enough for me.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong?  I make sure the wood is good and charred before I shut it down.  Usually after 30ish minutes with the thermostat on 3.5.  I tried running it on 1.5 but when I wake up it's usually below 60 in here.  The cat is still in the active zone it's just not putting out enough heat.  Am I doing something wrong here?  I know all houses are different etc but I don't feel the heat output at 1.5 is very high, certainly nothing close to 2.5 or 3.
> 
> Even running on 2.5 almost 24/7 I'm getting close to 24 hour burns.



For me its all about draft and ambient temps. No way IDE get 24hrs on 2.5. I can get it on 1.5 if I push the coal bed.

And you ain't doing nothing wrong. Whatever works for you.



jeff_t said:


> I don't see much difference on my stove top thermometer, which is placed right over the cat. When the cat is at the top end of the active range, I get the same temp whether at 1.5 or 2.5. The difference is when there is active fire in the box at higher settings, the whole stove is making a bunch of heat, especially from the front and heat radiated thru the glass.



Well am confused again, you have Flames in your firebox?

I maybe get flame for the first hour but after that its good night Irene and that's when the CAT takes over for the majority of the burn. What I do is run warm until the outside of the Ultra black gets to a certain temp then choke it off till no flame remains. Then turn it back up to 1.5 and watch the secondary's flame off the CAT. Usually I will get a re-ignition phase but after a while it settles into cruise mode. I pay no attention to the CAT probe after it goes active.

I must add that I still have clean glass and a hot flue. I don't know. Voodoo magic.


----------



## jeff_t

Rossco said:


> Well am confused again, you have Flames in your firebox?
> 
> I maybe get flame for the first hour but after that its good night Irene and that's when the CAT takes over for the majority of the burn. What I do is run warm until the outside of the Ultra black gets to a certain temp then choke it off till no flame remains. Then turn it back up to 1.5 and watch the secondary's flame off the CAT. Usually I will get a re-ignition phase but after a while it settles into cruise mode. I pay no attention to the CAT probe after it goes active.
> 
> I must add that I still have clean glass and a hot flue. I don't know. Voodoo magic.




Flames in the firebox? Not usually, but whatever it takes to stay warm.

Last night, I loaded eight oak splits that pretty much filled the firebox. Yeah, they were 'large'. I left a 2-3" gap between the bottom middle splits, and put a split over that gap, to make a bit of a tunnel. It really worked out well, burning from the middle out. It always burns from the middle out, but if I pack it tight, it burns from front to back first. Not the kind of burn that gets me max heat.

That was at 10 pm. Sometime overnight, the wind subsided, and when I got up at six we were at 77° in the living room  . I had it at about 2.5, and yes, I still had flames in the firebox at 7. It's about done, and I'm getting ready to throw in some uglies to make it until this evening.


----------



## Gareth96

The manual for the princess says to load it left to right.. I've seen some folks loading front to back.  Does front/back help to keep the glass cleaner?  Is there a reason for going one way versus the other, other than with front/back if your splits are too long they can expand and push on the glass?


----------



## Rossco

jeff_t said:


> Flames in the firebox? Not usually, but whatever it takes to stay warm.
> 
> Last night, I loaded eight oak splits that pretty much filled the firebox. Yeah, they were 'large'. I left a 2-3" gap between the bottom middle splits, and put a split over that gap, to make a bit of a tunnel. It really worked out well, burning from the middle out. It always burns from the middle out, but if I pack it tight, it burns from front to back first. Not the kind of burn that gets me max heat.
> 
> That was at 10 pm. Sometime overnight, the wind subsided, and when I got up at six we were at 77° in the living room  . I had it at about 2.5, and yes, I still had flames in the firebox at 7. It's about done, and I'm getting ready to throw in some uglies to make it until this evening.



100% not questioning anyone's operation of the BK. You guys do a great job of keeping warm.

Also I exaggerated the "Flame in the firebox" statement. These BK's are ment to burn 30hrs + with black dirty glass  

You have some nice OAK to burn and good for you fella. It might take 2 century's to dry but its Stella stuff.

Just in from night shift (I work 2 days, 2 nights then 4 off) Stove just about on, house nice and cosy'ish. Interrogated the wife and she claims to have loaded it @ around 20:00 last night and set it on the south side of 'Norm'. It appears the draft is real good. (I suspect she had it at the top end of the Norm)

Mixture of FIR, Western Larch and some pine.

Temps: About 900 degrees in the basement and about 69F upstairs. I can live with that.

The 69F temp is recorded in the hallway heading towards the bedrooms. It's not a real good indication of house temps.

ADD: It's -17C outside at the moment or 1.3F according to my Highbeam inspired APP


----------



## Rossco

Gareth96 said:


> The manual for the princess says to load it left to right.. I've seen some folks loading front to back.  Does front/back help to keep the glass cleaner?  Is there a reason for going one way versus the other, other than with front/back if your splits are too long they can expand and push on the glass?



Ah. Am a North to South kinda guy.

I always load North to South. I cut in general 16" so the upper wood is about 3-4" away from the glass. I use those pesky 8-10" end cuts to shim the upper wood closer to the glass.

Never heard of wood expanding enough to effect the glass.


----------



## jeff_t

Gareth96 said:


> The manual for the princess says to load it left to right.. I've seen some folks loading front to back.  Does front/back help to keep the glass cleaner?  Is there a reason for going one way versus the other, other than with front/back if your splits are too long they can expand and push on the glass?



Can't imagine why they say that. It is far easier to fill to capacity n/s. 

I've seen compressed wood bricks expand, but never cordwood.


----------



## Highbeam

Well maybe they mean left to right instead of outside outside then fill the middle. Perhaps this reduces the unburnt chunks in the bottom corners to just on one side.

I know it is possible but I do not recommend loading any stove sideways. How silly. The logs will just roll out before you can fill it up.


----------



## tarzan

I get active flames at 2.5 but not 1.5


----------



## Gareth96

Yeah, I wondered if they meant load it N/S from left to right vs.. left/right as in load it E/W..  I've kinda done both, since I use a welder glove it's no biggie getting splits to the back.

EDIT: Well on going back and reading it again, sounds like they do mean E/W.. or not?

Operating instructions, page 23.
#7:  When nearly all the wood in the firebox is burning , finish loading the stove. Lay the wood left to right, as far to the back of the stove as possible. After the loading door is closed and the catalytic thermometer is in the active zone, close the bypass door.


----------



## BKVP

tarzan said:


> I don't get what you are trying to say.
> 
> 05ramctd stated that he has had a problem with coals "for the last couple of days".
> 
> Assuming he is getting his wood from the same stack he was three days ago the one thing I know has changed is it got dam cold!
> 
> Also, aware that not even a thief stuck in the chimney could be completely ruled out from where I set, I did start the post by saying "it could be your wood"


Tarzan:
Last week a King owner called to say his firebox was so full of coals, he was unable to load much wood.  He claimed there were 6" of coals in the stove.  So the next morning I cleaned out everything in my own King but some hot chunks from my NIEL's, and loaded about 30 lbs of western larch (tamarack).  I set the burn rate at warp factor 3 and left the load to burn away.  6 hours later, the house was 85 degrees, outside 18, I had some pretty hot embers, no coals.  I reloaded using 31lbs of black walnut, left the thermostat at warp factor 3 and again kept my hands off the stove.  Moisture in both the softwood and hardwood were 14%.  Although later in the day and now the house appliances melting, 6 hours into the burn, the firebox a very large chucks of coals.  Some wood species have more likelihood to form large coals than others.  The specific gravity of cordwood is all part of the ASTM cordwood test method as we attempt to deliver a new method using cordwood and not dimensional lumber.
I get that his stove at one point in time with the same species (stack of wood) performed in one manner and in another point in time, it performed differently.  This could be attributable to varying draft (stack effect) as it got colder, varying moisture in load fuel and of course the burn rate (set by the thermostat).
No other inferences intended.
Chris


----------



## jeff_t

Six inches of coals seems normal to me. It's all part of the process. Pull them forward, open the air up, and get a couple more hours of heat. If that's not enough heat, there's other problems besides the way the stove is burning.

I went thru this last winter burning massive oak splits. I found myself burning smaller ash splits and rounds when the weather was brutal. It burned more completely, faster, and I could reload when I needed major heat. That oak would burn forever, but it was major amounts of coals that I had to burn down. I was gonna split the oak down smaller, but the way last night's load went, I may experiment a little more.

This oak has been stacked up for almost five years now. Been thru five summers, anyway. I resplit a couple last night and my HF moisture meter showed 22% in the middle of both, but 10-12% about 4" in from the ends. I guess that averages out to pretty dry.


----------



## Shane Collins

I know every house and situation is different etc etc.  But what temperatures are you getting at 1.5?

Tarzan said : "Not exactly but at 1.5 my stove runs at 400*F and 525*F on 2.5"

Any others know what they get at these two settings?  I just put 4 big ish splits on as I ran the stove pretty hard last night and just had to reload, still got about a 18 hour burn.  I didn't want to fill the firebox I like to do that before bed.  Anyway, with 4 pretty large splits I ran it hard for 35 minutes then shut it down to 2.5.  Sadly I don't have a stove top thermometer, I'll fix that soon.  But my IR gun which only goes up to 300 degrees shows that stovetop near the cat it's a little over 300.  I feel my stove top is much colder than others here?  These measurements you're taking on top of the cast iron shroud right? not on the actual firebox itself?

I'm very happy and I'm getting long burns and my house is warm but I can't understand why at similar settings I cant seem to get my stove as hot.  The cat never stalls, it's working perfect.  I can run at 1.5 overnight but id guess the stove top would be closer to 200*F which is nowhere near the 400*f Tarzan and others seem to be getting?  Any idea what if anything I'm doing wrong?


----------



## Shane Collins

Just checked again, cat thermometer is at 12 oclock.  Stove top temp is 280 *f so it's dropping.  Cat is active, no smoke coming out the chimney it's just not staying as hot as others seem to be getting theirs at similar settings.


----------



## tarzan

Shane, My thermometer is above the cat on the steel body of the stove. Keep in mind the Princess and King wear no shroud. Well, other than side and rear shields on some.


----------



## rdust

tarzan said:


> Shane, My thermometer is above the cat on the steel body of the stove. *Keep in mind the Princess and King wear no shroud.* Well, other than side and rear shields on some.



x2


----------



## BKVP

Shane Collins said:


> Just checked again, cat thermometer is at 12 oclock.  Stove top temp is 280 *f so it's dropping.  Cat is active, no smoke coming out the chimney it's just not staying as hot as others seem to be getting theirs at similar settings.


Chimney length and materials used affect draft.  Draft effects stove opeating temps.  Thermostats and settings will vary as much as the Temps themselves die to many variations  (draft, fuel type, moisture content..etc)


----------



## Highbeam

Gareth96 said:


> Yeah, I wondered if they meant load it N/S from left to right vs.. left/right as in load it E/W..  I've kinda done both, since I use a welder glove it's no biggie getting splits to the back.
> 
> EDIT: Well on going back and reading it again, sounds like they do mean E/W.. or not?
> 
> Operating instructions, page 23.
> #7:  When nearly all the wood in the firebox is burning , finish loading the stove. Lay the wood left to right, as far to the back of the stove as possible. After the loading door is closed and the catalytic thermometer is in the active zone, close the bypass door.


 
I read that in the manual too. I took it to mean laying splits (N/S) starting on the left and side by side to the right but slid back so that the butt ends of the splits hit the back of the stove.


----------



## Shane Collins

tarzan said:


> Shane, My thermometer is above the cat on the steel body of the stove. Keep in mind the Princess and King wear no shroud. Well, other than side and rear shields on some.



That makes sense then. I did ask in my previous post if it was on the shroud or not.  Didn't realize the king and princess had no shroud.  Anyway I shouldn't read into it too much.  I know everyone has a different situation and I'm heating my house fine on 2.5 and on average a full load is lasting about 24 hours before a reload.

Does anyone here have a stove top thermometer on an Ashford? and if so what temps are you averaging?


----------



## Badger

Gareth96 said:


> The manual for the princess says to load it left to right.. I've seen some folks loading front to back.  Does front/back help to keep the glass cleaner?  Is there a reason for going one way versus the other, other than with front/back if your splits are too long they can expand and push on the glass?


 I run north south too and on occasion have been guilty of trying to get a split that is just a little too long to fit pounded in to the point where it just doesn't touch the glass.  I've thought about it expanding and nervously sat by the stove watching it burn down with out any issue.  I don't recommend it... But I don't think they expand much either.


----------



## Krogoski

Shane Collins said:


> Does anyone here have a stove top thermometer on an Ashford? and if so what temps are you averaging?


I don't have a Stovetop Thermo, but I do use an IR point and shoot..

My Ashford has been cooking the current load (mixed midwest hardwoods) since 6:30PM EST today. Filled it, not quite to the gills, but quite full. Thermostat has been on 2.5 (2 out of 3) since the load charred. Catalyst probe indicating 1 o'clock. Stovetop, just south of the probe face: ~300F. Stovetop, behind stove adapter, ~415F. I'm jealous of your 24hr burns. I'm in the 8-10hr neighborhood and I'm reading everything I can on here about solving that.

An interesting note regarding the front casting. There is a notched spacer, approximately 2" x 1" x 1/2" thick, that goes between the bolt head and the steel body of the stove. I heard a clunk the other day, and could never find what it was. I heard another clunk today so I took the top off again to investigate, and found the two upper spacers had fallen off. Had to take the sides off to retrieve them. One of the side castings only had one bolt tightened, the other was loose by 1/4" or so. Maybe that is why my stove has been sounding like being in a tin shed during a hail storm.

I'm here if ya need any more Ashford temp readings.

BTW. I have a Matte Black Ashford side shelf that just won't work for us. Anyone care to make a deal? Perhaps trade for fans and I throw in an extra DVL stovepipe adapter(hint Webby3650) ?


----------



## Stump shot

Shane Collins said:


> That makes sense then. I did ask in my previous post if it was on the shroud or not.  Didn't realize the king and princess had no shroud.  Anyway I shouldn't read into it too much.  I know everyone has a different situation and I'm heating my house fine on 2.5 and on average a full load is lasting about 24 hours before a reload.
> 
> Does anyone here have a stove top thermometer on an Ashford? and if so what temps are you averaging?



250 to 350 degrees. The thermometer is next to the cat probe.


----------



## Shane Collins

Ok that makes me feel like mine is running normal.  I only have an IR gun which reads no higher than 300.  I should've read the description on amazon better!  Anyway, with that IR gun I'm seeing similar temps to yours.  I just ordered a stove top thermometer so I'll see the range a little better now.  Thanks for your readings.

The stove really is amazing.  I just have to fix the leaks in my house now.  New windows planned next summer, that should help.


----------



## tarzan

Shane, if you're heating your home and doing so while getting 24 hour burns that is great! i wouldn't dwell much on stove top temps or draft setting numbers. Whatever you're doing is working.


----------



## Gareth96

On which way to lay the splits.. I asked two guys at work what "Lay the wood left to right, as far to the back of the stove as possible" meant to them and they said N/S..  I guess I must be an abstract thinker or something, maybe a picture would help in the manual for twisted visual learners   I think if I were telling someone how to put wood in a fireplace, I'd also say "Lay the wood left to right, as far to the back as possible".. 

In short.. I'll start loading N/S now that I've been turned around..


----------



## Greg67

We installed our BK Princess Ultra Saturday 11/15, it has been running 24/7 since then. Our house is a 1700 sq ft 2 story farm house built in 1900 that is well insulated and has new windows (27x72 lots of them!) with 9ft ceilings down stairs. I have opened the transoms above the doors to other rooms and it has done wonders to warm them up. We burn mainly white oak (we get cut offs and scraps for free), some cherry, and whatever else is free. We have been loading our stove 2-3 times a day on a setting of 1.5-2, this keeps the main level 74-80. My stove top temps range from 475-550 with the cat glowing a dull red and occasionally some secondary flames coming out of it. The chimney produces more of a vapor than smoke except when we reload the stove. My question is am I doing this right ? Are my stove top temps ok with the relative heat setting ? I think this thing is better than sliced bread and pockets but I'm willing to learn anything I can to improve it. Thank you in advance for your help.


----------



## Shane Collins

You're right, Tarzan.  I didn't realize the king and princess had no shroud so when I was seeing much higher temps at lower settings I was worried something may be wrong.  Thanks for clearing that up.  And thanks to BK for making such a great stove!


----------



## Dieselhead

I wonder how many people read north/south on here and stand the splits up on end in their firebox


----------



## Shane Collins

Greg67 said:


> We installed our BK Princess Ultra Saturday 11/15, it has been running 24/7 since then. Our house is a 1700 sq ft 2 story farm house built in 1900 that is well insulated and has new windows (27x72 lots of them!) with 9ft ceilings down stairs. I have opened the transoms above the doors to other rooms and it has done wonders to warm them up. We burn mainly white oak (we get cut offs and scraps for free), some cherry, and whatever else is free. We have been loading our stove 2-3 times a day on a setting of 1.5-2, this keeps the main level 74-80. My stove top temps range from 475-550 with the cat glowing a dull red and occasionally some secondary flames coming out of it. The chimney produces more of a vapor than smoke except when we reload the stove. My question is am I doing this right ? Are my stove top temps ok with the relative heat setting ? I think this thing is better than sliced bread and pockets but I'm willing to learn anything I can to improve it. Thank you in advance for your help.



Have you tested the moisture content of the wood with a moisture meter?  How dry is it?  And how full and tight are you loading the stove with your firewood?


----------



## Rossco

Greg:

Load it 2 or 3 times a day on 1.5 - 2 full of OAK?

Must be pulling a voracious draft.


----------



## Greg67

Shane Collins said:


> Have you tested the moisture content of the wood with a moisture meter?  How dry is it?  And how full and tight are you loading the stove with your firewood?


I have only tested the outside of the wood with a moisture meter and it reads about %10. We just moved in and I can't find my axe to split a piece of wood right now, my nephew borrowed my splitter and it's not back yet. We load the stove pretty tight at bed time and have always had a bed of coals to work with in the morning. The stove has truly had one fire, the first one and it's still going. I have played with E/W & N/S loading. I get better burn times with N/S if I have enough short wood, our last house had an add on wood furnace that took long wood but most of the oak I get is short anyway. I will dig for my axe or go buy a new one and post the results. 80% of what we burn is the white oak. There is a company that makes the slats for whiskey barrels by a friend of mines house. I take my dump trailer there and the scraps are free for the taking. I tip the loader drivers $20 to load my trailer from the scrap bins, that way everything I get has the bark removed.


----------



## tarzan

What Rossco said. Are you loading it full? 

I'm not sure I could even burn through three loads a day in the Princess if I tried.


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## Greg67

tarzan said:


> What Rossco said. Are you loading it full?
> 
> I'm not sure I could even burn through three loads a day in the Princess if I tried.


Sorry I guess I need to clarify. We only load it as full as we can for an overnight burn. In the morning I will pull the unburned pieces of wood to the center with the coals and add some to the top of that. I've just noticed that towards the end of a full load of wood the stove top gage is towards the "inactive" range. I try to keep it a fingers width to half way above that mark. I loaded in a few splits of wood this morning and my gage is at about the 10 o clock position with a 550 surface temp. I did not load it full though, just a few pieces to bring the gage back up. Will it shorten the life of the cat if it goes into the inactive range ?


----------



## tarzan

Greg67 said:


> Sorry I guess I need to clarify. We only load it as full as we can for an overnight burn. In the morning I will pull the unburned pieces of wood to the center with the coals and add some to the top of that. I've just noticed that towards the end of a full load of wood the stove top gage is towards the "inactive" range. I try to keep it a fingers width to half way above that mark. I loaded in a few splits of wood this morning and my gage is at about the 10 o clock position with a 550 surface temp. I did not load it full though, just a few pieces to bring the gage back up. Will it shorten the life of the cat if it goes into the inactive range ?



Once the stove begins to naturally cool toward the end of the burn cycle it is fine to let the cat go inactive. Just flip the bypass and reload when needed.


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## Shane Collins

Is it possible for you to take a few pics of the wood you're burning and your stove after you've loaded it full for an overnight burn?  I imagine the wood is plenty dry enough.  Pictures should help.


----------



## tarzan

tarzan said:


> Once the stove begins to naturally cool toward the end of the burn cycle it is fine to let the cat go inactive. Just flip the bypass and reload when needed.



Also should add that you don't have to keep the cat glowing. As long as it is in the active zone it is fine. 

When you load the stove in the morning it wood be fine (desirable in fact) to fill it full and take advantage of the stoves long burn times. If you don't need as much heat through the day you can just turn the thermostat down.


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## Dieselhead

When it's cold I load my king twice a day to keep my house at 70 I'm not surprised with gregs results


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## Parallax

Here's a question about the reloads. Often I come home to find the box all but empty but the stove still just in the active range. If I reload and immediately close the bypass door, it takes a heck of a long time for the needle to begin climbing (with the t-stat set to max). Should I be keeping the bypass open for a while as if the stove had gone inactive? Though it says it's active, the cat doesn't seem to light off right away. Usually after five or so minutes, it begins to climb.


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## jeff_t

Dieselhead said:


> When it's cold I load my king twice a day to keep my house at 70 I'm not surprised with gregs results




Yep. I fill it up at night, a few splits or uglies in the morning to make it to evening, if necessary. So far this winter, one big load + some junk have been enough.



Parallax said:


> Here's a question about the reloads. Often I come home to find the box all but empty but the stove still just in the active range. If I reload and immediately close the bypass door, it takes a heck of a long time for the needle to begin climbing (with the t-stat set to max). Should I be keeping the bypass open for a while as if the stove had gone inactive? Though it says it's active, the cat doesn't seem to light off right away. Usually after five or so minutes, it begins to climb.



Even if the cat probe is still well into the active zone, I still wait until the fresh load is well involved before I close the bypass. But then, I'll close it if it is not active, as long as I have a bunch of fire.

I don't pay strict attention to the gauges, if you can't tell. Just takes a little experience.


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## tarzan

Since we've been burning 24/7 it's been tricky to get just enough wood in the stove on that morning or in some cases, afternoon load, to last until bed time without going over. 

I've ran a wood stove of some kind for much of the last 30 years and never thought I would be trying to judge how much wood I need to last ONLY 12 hours.


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## Rossco

tarzan said:


> Since we've been burning 24/7 it's been tricky to get just enough wood in the stove on that morning or in some cases, afternoon load, to last until bed time without going over.
> 
> I've ran a wood stove of some kind for much of the last 30 years and never thought I would be trying to judge how much wood I need to last ONLY 12 hours.



Same boat as us. I work 2 days - 2 nights so the load intervals have to be modified.

Am trying this 2.5 burn procedure and its eating the wood. All I have at the moment is a glob of yellow mass but she's putting out the heat for sure.


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## tarzan

Rossco said:


> Same boat as us. I work 2 days - 2 nights so the load intervals have to be modified.
> 
> Am trying this 2.5 burn procedure and its eating the wood. All I have at the moment is a glob of yellow mass but she's putting out the heat for sure.





Rossco said:


> Same boat as us. I work 2 days - 2 nights so the load intervals have to be modified.
> 
> Am trying this 2.5 burn procedure and its eating the wood. All I have at the moment is a glob of yellow mass but she's putting out the heat for sure.



I hear ya. It's been cold here at night and warming up to above freezing during the day so I guess you could say there's a day and night difference on how we run the stove

I've worked similar schedules as you, it sux!


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## Poindexter

I dunno for sure about hot relaods v- flue temp.

The first cord I burned this year I I would run the door open until my stack thermometer was up to a temp I knew gave me minimal creosote buildup, close the door, stay in bypass until up to the first white tick mark on the edge of the dial of the cat probe  in the active range, than I ran on three / high for about an hour before chopping the thermostat back to 1, 1.5 or 2 for 10-12 hours.  

After that first cord I brushed my stack again and got about 2 tablespoons of mostly dark brown dry crumblies out of the stack, with a very few scattered specks of shiny black.

Almost through my second cord of the season.  What I have been doing this time is running in bypass with the door cracked until either the stack is warm or the cat is in the active range again, then close the door, switch from bypass to cat and then chop immediately to 1, 1.5 or 2.  I have been keeping the stove hot enough that the cat is usually to the active mark again on the cat probe _before_ my stack thermometer is showing me the creosote free zone.  

I figger is the cat is working well I shouldn't see much creosote buildup no matter what my stack temp is indicated.  Should find out this weekend, I am about through the second cord of the season.


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## Poindexter

BEWARE the bio-logs that do puff up while burning.  I got a local manufacturer of those, threw 8 in the stove this evening to see what would happen.

Holy cow.  As the end got well lit it would puff up, fall off, and the the freshly exposed wood both on the fallen piece and the remaining log would burst into flame.  Then a few minutes later a second hockey puck sized piece would fall off and both those freshly exposed surfaces burst into flame...

The directions - which I should have read sooner - said to only mix three bio-logs at a time with regular cord wood, and to load the logs parallel to the glass.  I loaded up 8 at 5PM local, about 530 I set the smoke alarms off pulling a pile of burning hockey pucks out of the front of the stove that were leaning on the glass.  

I chopped the thermostat down to one once I had all the weight off the glass, I suspect these will be burning a good long while.


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## turbojoe

I will be joining the dark side tomorrow   Stopped by my local BK dealer to check out a Princess. I don't have room for a King and the Princess will fit in place of my newly installed PE TN19. The PE is a good stove if your there to tweek it all the time, just couldn't find a good mix of burn time and heat, while away.
I was kinda bummed when they said first of next year :0 They did say they had 1 in stock that was spoken for but the customer had not returned there calls for 2 weeks.
When i left the store i give them my number and said Cash tomorrow if you want that Princess gone. Well, cash is king... or should i say Princess...lol
I pick it up tomorrow. The learning curve starts over. I read all 35 pages of this thread, is that a good start


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## Rossco

tarzan said:


> I hear ya. It's been cold here at night and warming up to above freezing during the day so I guess you could say there's a day and night difference on how we run the stove
> 
> I've worked similar schedules as you, it sux!



Oh the weather here is all over at the moment. -26C then -5C the next day. It  effects draft somewhat so all this 'Stove Rosta' jive goes out of the window.

I have a load running @ 2 for about 10hrs now and it's still very much alive and kicking. Two days ago that would have been a 6hr burn then coaling.


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## Rossco

turbojoe said:


> I will be joining the dark side tomorrow   Stopped by my local BK dealer to check out a Princess. I don't have room for a King and the Princess will fit in place of my newly installed PE TN19. The PE is a good stove if your there to tweek it all the time, just couldn't find a good mix of burn time and heat, while away.
> I was kinda bummed when they said first of next year :0 They did say they had 1 in stock that was spoken for but the customer had not returned there calls for 2 weeks.
> When i left the store i give them my number and said Cash tomorrow if you want that Princess gone. Well, cash is king... or should i say Princess...lol
> I pick it up tomorrow. The learning curve starts over. I read all 35 pages of this thread, is that a good start



Good for you. Shame you couldn't have got the KING. 

I did the same at the dealer, Brand new Ultra sitting there spoken for, I told them to phone the owner and ask if they wanted to let it go. Didn't happen. So 17 days later for my unit.


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## turbojoe

My boss will stop ripping on me now..lol. I work for a Catalyst Company, In the Aging and Durability test lab. I get paid to melt cats..lol
We just ran a set of Cats for 135 hrs @ 1030 C.. They were white hot :O  I'll have to post a few pics.
Sorry to ramble and go a bit off topic...
I'll shut up and pay attn. now 
Hope to fire her up Sunday !!


----------



## tarzan

turbojoe said:


> My boss will stop ripping on me now..lol. I work for a Catalyst Company, In the Aging and Durability test lab. I get paid to melt cats..lol
> We just ran a set of Cats for 135 hrs @ 1030 C.. They were white hot :O  I'll have to post a few pics.
> Sorry to ramble and go a bit off topic...
> I'll shut up and pay attn. now
> Hope to fire her up Sunday !!



Your JOB is to test CATS?

O'l, I doubt your straying off subject with that kind of info.


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## Rich2343

turbojoe said:


> My boss will stop ripping on me now..lol. I work for a Catalyst Company, In the Aging and Durability test lab. I get paid to melt cats..lol
> We just ran a set of Cats for 135 hrs @ 1030 C.. They were white hot :O  I'll have to post a few pics.
> Sorry to ramble and go a bit off topic...
> I'll shut up and pay attn. now
> Hope to fire her up Sunday !!


Turbojoe cool job.look foreword to the photos


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## tarzan

turbojoe said:


> I will be joining the dark side tomorrow   Stopped by my local BK dealer to check out a Princess. I don't have room for a King and the Princess will fit in place of my newly installed PE TN19. The PE is a good stove if your there to tweek it all the time, just couldn't find a good mix of burn time and heat, while away.
> I was kinda bummed when they said first of next year :0 They did say they had 1 in stock that was spoken for but the customer had not returned there calls for 2 weeks.
> When i left the store i give them my number and said Cash tomorrow if you want that Princess gone. Well, cash is king... or should i say Princess...lol
> I pick it up tomorrow. The learning curve starts over. I read all 35 pages of this thread, is that a good start



Your going from a 2 cu ft tube stove to the Princess. I think you'll be happy Were you able to heat your home entirely with the PE?

Our Princess replaced a 2.3 cu ft non cat, and while it could heat our home just fine, to say it was more work than the BK would be an under statement.


----------



## liquidskin

just not getting the heat that I was expecting out of my princess insert. fully loaded last night about 10pm, cranked a bit past medium, this morning 5:30AM the upstairs is very low 50's, cat was very inactive and had nothing but ash and some coals left. stove is on the first floor of my bi-level and im using a fan at the bottom of the stairs to move the hot air upstairs.

finally getting a moisture meter this weekend, i just dont have a good feeling about this wood.  ive personally seasoned it 6 months, since i moved in.. worried about what im going to find out.


----------



## rdust

liquidskin said:


> just not getting the heat that I was expecting out of my princess insert. fully loaded last night about 10pm*, cranked a bit past medium, this morning 5:30AM the upstairs is very low 50's,* cat was very inactive and had nothing but ash and some coals left. stove is on the first floor of my bi-level and im using a fan at the bottom of the stairs to move the hot air upstairs.
> 
> finally getting a moisture meter this weekend, i just dont have a good feeling about this wood.  ive personally seasoned it 6 months, since i moved in.. worried about what im going to find out.



Try closing the windows tonight!    What were the temps on the main level where the stove is located, what type of stove temps are you seeing, what kind of wood are you burning?  So many things come into play here.  From what I've read here the inserts don't seem to heat as well as the freestanding stoves.

Last night I loaded the stove at 6pm with ash, it was 7* when I woke up, stove was 345* when I reloaded at 7 am with a stove full of coals.  Stove room thermometer about 10' from the stove read 78*, hallway leading to the stairway was 71*.  Last night I ran the stove with the fans on low and t-stat set on 1 3/4(bottom of normal zone).  I'm heating just a touch under 2K.


----------



## jeffsk7

Question.  Where is the fresh air inlet hole on a sirocco 30?


----------



## jeff_t

jeffsk7 said:


> Question.  Where is the fresh air inlet hole on a sirocco 30?



Middle, back of the stove, under the thermostat assembly. Between the blowers, if you have them.


----------



## Parallax

Hey, good news! My BK dealer came out to the house today. He agreed to add an extra 4 foot section of chimney. He said he'll have to fabricate a brace to hold it in high winds, which he'll attach to the roof eve. It won't be easy to get it up there. Said they would let me know when they have time and the forecast calls for no rain. 

I don't think he's going to charge me for this. However, I'm having him do some additional work, essentially adding insulation to the water pipes under my house. That will be a full day's labor plus materials. Happy to do it though. We're bleeding a lot of heat from the hot water pipes as things are now. The house was designed for radiant heat. That has something to do with why the hot water lines aren't wrapped. Now that we're not using the radiant system, the pipes need to be fully insulated.


----------



## liquidskin

rdust said:


> Try closing the windows tonight!   What were the temps on the main level where the stove is located, what type of stove temps are you seeing, what kind of wood are you burning? So many things come into play here. From what I've read here the inserts don't seem to heat as well as the freestanding stoves.
> Last night I loaded the stove at 6pm with ash, it was 7* when I woke up, stove was 345* when I reloaded at 7 am with a stove full of coals. Stove room thermometer about 10' from the stove read 78*, hallway leading to the stairway was 71*. Last night I ran the stove with the fans on low and t-stat set on 1 3/4(bottom of normal zone). I'm heating just a touch under 2K.



i'm going to try to get some data this weekend and will revert back. i unfortunately dont know the exact species of wood, i just know it to be "hardwood".


----------



## jeffsk7

Parallax said:


> Hey, good news! My BK dealer came out to the house today. He agreed to add an extra 4 foot section of chimney. He said he'll have to fabricate a brace to hold it in high winds, which he'll attach to the roof eve. It won't be easy to get it up there. Said they would let me know when they have time and the forecast calls for no rain.
> 
> I don't think he's going to charge me for this. However, I'm having him do some additional work, essentially adding insulation to the water pipes under my house. That will be a full day's labor plus materials. Happy to do it though. We're bleeding a lot of heat from the hot water pipes as things are now. The house was designed for radiant heat. That has something to do with why the hot water lines aren't wrapped. Now that we're not using the radiant system, the pipes need to be fully insulated.


Did you previously add more pipe already?  I tested adding four feet and it seems to help draft a little better and have since ordered what I need for the permanent install.


----------



## Parallax

When they first put the stove in, they agreed to raise the pipe 1 foot by replacing a 3 foot section with a 4 foot section. That put us at 22 feet. Now they'll add another 4 foot section, bringing us to about 26 feet. More important than the length of the pipe is the fact that it will vent above the peak of the roof. I think the problem has been that the chimney is currently surrounded by trees on three sides and the roof on the fourth. Also, a neighbor's house is set back maybe 25 yards on that side of the house. He's our only neighbor but the chimney is about as close as it could be to his home. 

Of course this is an experiment. We'll know if it works once it's done. We had wanted to try it out too but, as it turns out, putting it up is pretty much putting it up regardless of whether it's a temp job or permanent. Also, not fully secured it might not be safe, even if only for a day or two. We get some pretty big wind gusts.


----------



## Doug Morford

liquidskin said:


> i'm going to try to get some data this weekend and will revert back. i unfortunately dont know the exact species of wood, i just know it to be "hardwood".



Hopefully it's a decent species.  Hardwood/softwood is not necessarily a qualifier for good/poor firewood.  Some of the least dense woods are hardwood.  Hardwood/softwood only refers to the differences in water pathway structures within the wood.


----------



## turbojoe

Break in fire,  this thing is amazing. I am getting nervous because i keep wanting to get up to f with the stove lol


----------



## tarzan

turbojoe said:


> Break in fire,  this thing is amazing. I am getting nervous because i keep wanting to get up to f with the stove lol



The hardest thing for me to get used to, after 3 winters with a tube stove, was the black fire box.

Every time I looked at the stove for the first few days my first thought was to run over and turn up the draft, even though the stove was pumping out heat.


----------



## tarzan

Doug Morford said:


> Hopefully it's a decent species.  Hardwood/softwood is not necessarily a qualifier for good/poor firewood.  Some of the least dense woods are hardwood.  Hardwood/softwood only refers to the differences in water pathway structures within the wood.



True, but given the species of wood native to the NJ area I would think it more likely he has softwood thought to be hardwood


----------



## tarzan

liquidskin said:


> just not getting the heat that I was expecting out of my princess insert. fully loaded last night about 10pm, cranked a bit past medium, this morning 5:30AM the upstairs is very low 50's, cat was very inactive and had nothing but ash and some coals left. stove is on the first floor of my bi-level and im using a fan at the bottom of the stairs to move the hot air upstairs.
> 
> finally getting a moisture meter this weekend, i just dont have a good feeling about this wood.  ive personally seasoned it 6 months, since i moved in.. worried about what im going to find out.



Did you have lots of active flames in the box at that setting?

How many square feet are you heating?

Do you have a block off plate installed?

You may have said in a previous post, if so I missed it.


----------



## Doug Morford

tarzan said:


> True, but given the species of wood native to the NJ area I would think it more likely he has softwood thought to be hardwood



You're saying there aren't a lot low density hardwoods in the area?  I'm not too familiar with east coast forests.  He seems to have some pretty light wood either way, that's a pretty quick burn in my limited experience with a cat stove.


----------



## tarzan

Doug Morford said:


> You're saying there aren't a lot low density hardwoods in the area?  I'm not too familiar with east coast forests.  He seems to have some pretty light wood either way, that's a pretty quick burn in my limited experience with a cat stove.



Cherry and Silver Maple come to mind as examples of less dense hardwoods native to NJ. I've never been there but do know they share many species in common with my area.

Even with wood at .4g/cc that would seem to be a short burn time although I'm not sure the Princess inserts are quite as large as the free standing version.

Also we don't know how old the wood is. He only said he has had it six months.

Still not convinced the wood is the only problem. He only said he didn't have a good feeling about his wood.

Should edit to say that since Super Storm Sandy devistated that area in 2012 that is a big part of the reason I think he could have soft wood thought to be hardwood.


----------



## Niko

liquidskin said:


> just not getting the heat that I was expecting out of my princess insert. fully loaded last night about 10pm, cranked a bit past medium, this morning 5:30AM the upstairs is very low 50's, cat was very inactive and had nothing but ash and some coals left. stove is on the first floor of my bi-level and im using a fan at the bottom of the stairs to move the hot air upstairs.
> 
> finally getting a moisture meter this weekend, i just dont have a good feeling about this wood.  ive personally seasoned it 6 months, since i moved in.. worried about what im going to find out.



The fan at the bottom of the stairs is not gonna work, How warm is the room with insert? Same room as stove  I cut a 8x12 hole in my floor put a 12x8 duct in between the floors and then put a 8inch duct fan inside the duct and installed heavy duty registers.  The duct fan blows the hot air up in the coldup stairsThen i took a small box fan and hung  it upside down from my upstairs ceiling and angle it down a lil to blow the hot air towards the floors.  It took about 6hrs to warm up but now my upstairs is 74 vs 64. As long as i keep loading the wood I keep the house very comfortable.

Get a temperature gauge from home depot or harbor freight(you need to do testing). Measure how hot the ceiling is the room the stove is in and you will see how much hot air is above your head


----------



## BrotherBart

So glad we let this BK thread run every year. 900 posts would be a Mods nightmare in individual threads,


----------



## becasunshine

liquidskin said:


> i'm going to try to get some data this weekend and will revert back. i unfortunately dont know the exact species of wood, i just know it to be "hardwood".



Liquidskin, as you see on my signature, we heat the house in town with a Napoleon NPS40 free standing pellet stove.   The NPS40 is rated to heat up to 2000 sq. ft. Our house in town is 1420 sq. ft.  The Napoleon struggled with carrying the house until we got the attic well insulated and got a lot of the air leaks sealed up.  Even now, if the temps dip into the teens overnight (it was 18'F here the other night) the house will dip to the mid to upper 60s with the NPS40 running at the top end of the recommended feed rate.

I'm learning about wood burners but my understanding is that an insert is not going to put out the heat that a free standing stove will.  Others here can comment on the physics involved.

The Princess is rated to heat up to 2500 sq. ft.  We hope our wood stove will carry 2000 sq. ft. here.  We are learning about that now.  It does take a while to bring this house up to comfortable temps when the house is cold.  We keep the HVAC at 50'F when we aren't here.  It's 25'F outside right now with a wind chill temp of 22'F.  We lit the wood stove when we arrived and it's been burning for about 2.5 hours.  This is new construction with good windows and good insulation and it does hold the heat pretty well.   The house temp in the vicinity of the stove has risen a solid 15'F in 2.5 hours from a 50'F house and a stone cold stove..  This side of the house is open floor plan so it all comes up to temp pretty much at the same time.  It'll be a couple more hours, I'm guessing, before the temps even out in the other end of the house, i.e. the bedrooms.

I doubt that we could have brought the house temp up 15'F in 2.5 hours with the propane furnace- so there's that.   The floors, furniture, walls were all cold too so it will take a while.

I just told my husband that maybe we should have gotten a King instead of a Princess to bring the entire house up to temp fast on these cold weekends.   We plan to move here full time in a few years so maybe we'll look into selling the Princess and buying a King then- or maybe not.  We'll have a few years to work with it and to figure out what we're doing.

I give you all of this information so you can gauge your insert's performance against a free standing Princess.  Hopefully it helps.


----------



## becasunshine

P.S.  I'm sitting here browsing Blaze King wood furnaces and brainstorming the possibilities... although unless we were able to achieve a solar installation with enough juice to run the HVAC fan, we'd still have to install and run a propane fired generator to run the HVAC fan during a power outage.

What impresses me is that the APEX furnace is only slightly larger than the King stove. 

But the possibilities of the APEX- it's a hybrid burner (secondary burn system plus catalytic combuster) that can be attached in tandem with an existing gas, oil or electric furnace.  And it meets the new emissions guidelines for wood furnaces.  And it has an over 90% efficiency.

I am fascinated.


----------



## jeff_t

@becasunshine, did you get blowers for your stove yet? I bet you would find it much easier to warm up a cold house.


----------



## tarzan

becasunshine said:


> P.S.  I'm sitting here browsing Blaze King wood furnaces and brainstorming the possibilities... although unless we were able to achieve a solar installation with enough juice to run the HVAC fan, we'd still have to install and run a propane fired generator to run the HVAC fan during a power outage.
> 
> What impresses me is that the APEX furnace is only slightly larger than the King stove.
> 
> But the possibilities of the APEX- it's a hybrid burner (secondary burn system plus catalytic combuster) that can be attached in tandem with an existing gas, oil or electric furnace.  And it meets the new emissions guidelines for wood furnaces.  And it has an over 90% efficiency.
> 
> I am fascinated.



You may find the Princess to be enough stove once you are there full time to keep the house warm vs warming it up on weekends.

Just throwing this out there but have you looked into linking your phone to your HVAC thermostat? I know very little about it but it seems like something that could work very well since you are only using the home on weekends.


----------



## tarzan

Loaded the stove full of Beech this am. Ran the stove hard for a while to bring the house temps up. Shut the stove down to a little under 2 and have been getting some serious ghost flames.

I've seen the ghost flames in this stove before but this has been like secondaries lit off for over an hour now. Pretty cool! Temps have dropped a little but not more than 60*.


----------



## becasunshine

tarzan said:


> You may find the Princess to be enough stove once you are there full time to keep the house warm vs warming it up on weekends.
> 
> Just throwing this out there but have you looked into linking your phone to your HVAC thermostat? I know very little about it but it seems like something that could work very well since you are only using the home on weekends.



Ya, I think you are right about the Princess being enough stove when we aren't faced with warming up a cold house fast on a regular basis.  That being said, I doubt that the HVAC system could have warmed this house as quickly as the Princess did on Friday night.  Temps dropped sharply on Friday when the sun when down so in addition to warming up the cold house, we were also working against the temperature gradient as it got colder after dark. 

We don't have full time internet or a landline phone here.  We use a MiFi for internet both here and when we travel with our camper.  We've thought about the remote control HVAC thermostat but it's not worth enough to us to install a landline or full time internet here- particularly now that we have the Princess.  We get here, fire up the wood stove, and within a couple of hours we are comfortable without paying to run the heat pump or the propane furnace in the process.  Just takes a little bit of patience and, as I'm finding, elbow grease.

We left the stove on low with embers in the box when we left here a couple of weeks ago.  I had a nice brown glaze to scrape off of the glass (ash on a damp paper towel wasn't going to cut in on this stuff) before I started the stove.  I could have burned it off, I guess, but I do love the ambience of the fire through the glass, and I didn't want to risk adding any more glaze to that glass. 

That furnace, though...  what a concept!


----------



## becasunshine

jeff_t said:


> @becasunshine, did you get blowers for your stove yet? I bet you would find it much easier to warm up a cold house.



Jeff t, not yet. The way the house is laid out we don't need to move the heat that far, initially, to be comfortable.  The stove sits just opposite the living room area of the open floor plan, and it heats up quickly.  If we get the fire started and the stove burning well we have pretty much immediate heat in the area that we'll occupy for the first couple of hours.  I typically bring dinner in our thermal mass cooker, so it's cooked, hot and ready to eat, or we cook up or heat up something quickly when we get here.  We plug in the t.v., scoop up dinner on a plate or in a bowl, curl up in the living room to watch "Grimm," and the stove has the place warmed up pretty quickly. 

It does take a little bit for the heat to get back to the bedrooms but we put our electric mattress pad on the bed last night and turned it up to "hell."  (There really is an "H" for the highest setting.  Pretty sure that means "Hell.") 

Good idea about the blowers, though.  We won't hesitate to get the blowers if we find that we can't get the house warmed up quickly enough!


----------



## Rich2343

becasunshine said:


> Jeff t, not yet. The way the house is laid out we don't need to move the heat that far, initially, to be comfortable.  The stove sits just opposite the living room area of the open floor plan, and it heats up quickly.  If we get the fire started and the stove burning well we have pretty much immediate heat in the area that we'll occupy for the first couple of hours.  I typically bring dinner in our thermal mass cooker, so it's cooked, hot and ready to eat, or we cook up or heat up something quickly when we get here.  We plug in the t.v., scoop up dinner on a plate or in a bowl, curl up in the living room to watch "Grimm," and the stove has the place warmed up pretty quickly.
> 
> It does take a little bit for the heat to get back to the bedrooms but we put our electric mattress pad on the bed last night and turned it up to "hell."  (There really is an "H" for the highest setting.  Pretty sure that means "Hell.")
> 
> Good idea about the blowers, though.  We won't hesitate to get the blowers if we find that we can't get the house warmed up quickly enough!


The only down side to the Apex I see is the burn times. Big box and only 8 to 10 hr burn time. That's if I have that correct.


----------



## Rossco

Rich2343 said:


> The only down side to the Apex I see is the burn times. Big box and only 8 to 10 hr burn time. That's if I have that correct.



I looked into the Apex. But my house Furnace is in the wrong place. (Cost allot to relocate etc)

The Apex will do 45hrs according to BK.

Also an odd ball 7' flue. 

More of a 'New build' installation over
Retro fit IMO.


----------



## turbojoe

Rich2343 said:


> Turbojoe cool job.look foreword to the photos


 
The best i can do today, only running these at 950 Deg. C
That temp is mesured in the center of the Catalysts.


----------



## BKVP

Rossco said:


> I looked into the Apex. But my house Furnace is in the wrong place. (Cost allot to relocate etc)
> 
> The Apex will do 45hrs according to BK.
> 
> Also an odd ball 7' flue.
> 
> More of a 'New build' installation over
> Retro fit IMO.


There is a lot of parasitic loss depending upon the total amount of duct work involved in each install of the APEX.  Also, we suggest it be sized for home around 1,200-1,500 square feet.  Yes there are folks that have placed them in the basement and have a single floor register off the plenum and claim it heats more square footage.  
The Apex does not run well on any size other than 7" which our friends to the north can vouch is not uncommon in the land of maple syrup and cheaseies (sp?).

Chris


----------



## BKVP

turbojoe said:


> The best i can do today, only running these at 950 Deg. C
> That temp is mesured in the center of the Catalysts.


I'll bet you boys use lots of anti seize!


----------



## Rossco

Well I tried a different approch today.

Only loaded the stove with 4 splits on the bottom N-S. Then two splits ontop E-W.

Getting good hot fires and I only use 1/2 the wood. It will go 6-8hrs this way and hot. If I loaded it full it's get longer burning this hot but not double the time. Weird.

It's around freezing so not to bad weather wise.


----------



## Doug Morford

becasunshine said:


> It does take a little bit for the heat to get back to the bedrooms but we put our electric mattress pad on the bed last night and turned it up to "hell."  (There really is an "H" for the highest setting.  Pretty sure that means "Hell.")



This made me laugh.  I have the same name for the high setting.  It doesn't keep my fiance from using it though.  Waking up in a pool of my own sweat is close enough to hell for me.


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> There is a lot of parasitic loss depending upon the total amount of duct work involved in each install of the APEX.  Also, we suggest it be sized for home around 1,200-1,500 square feet.  Yes there are folks that have placed them in the basement and have a single floor register off the plenum and claim it heats more square footage.
> The Apex does not run well on any size other than 7" which our friends to the north can vouch is not uncommon in the land of maple syrup and cheaseies (sp?).
> 
> Chris



I only have 1200 up so it would work good for me. If it could produce 1/2 the forced air could In a short period of time I would be impressed.

I kinda figured you guys would have R&D'ed the crap out of this unit hence the 7" flue.

Never seen a 7" flue here, well maybe On old smoke dragon, creosote factory's.

It was one of the reasons I wouldn't buy one. Relocating the furnace would be the easy part, paying $$$$ ontop of $$$$ for new chimney was another.

Side note, do you sell many? I have yet to find ANY info from users online. Not even a instal picture.


----------



## Doug Morford

This is interesting.  My current cat was not in the best shape, so I replaced my it yesterday with a new Steelcat and it changed the burn quite a bit.  The temperature fluctuations are pretty much non-existent now.  The cat went ape for the first few hours, but after that it smoothed right out.  This was on a setting of 1.25 for the entire burn (which still has a lot left to go than the graph shows).

I think it takes less of a damper opening now to get the cat to burn hotter.  Basically, the new cat is more responsive to increases in smoke, and it is awesome.


----------



## BKVP

Rossco said:


> I only have 1200 up so it would work good for me. If it could produce 1/2 the forced air could In a short period of time I would be impressed.
> 
> I kinda figured you guys would have R&D'ed the crap out of this unit hence the 7" flue.
> 
> Never seen a 7" flue here, well maybe On old smoke dragon, creosote factory's.
> 
> It was one of the reasons I wouldn't buy one. Relocating the furnace would be the easy part, paying $$$$ ontop of $$$$ for new chimney was another.
> 
> Side note, do you sell many? I have yet to find ANY info from users online. Not even a instal picture.


Some in the USA but vastly more in Canada.  Warm air furnaces are quite popular up north.


----------



## Rossco

BKVP said:


> Some in the USA but vastly more in Canada.  Warm air furnaces are quite popular up north.



Good for you guys. 

Good feedback? I know nothing about wood furnaces.


----------



## becasunshine

I'm still fascinated by the idea that I can put a wood stove in my house (King) that is just shy of the size of a wood furnace (Apex) and both have catalytic combustors in them. 

I'm just completely taken with these stoves.

BTW we see NO smoke coming out of our chimney- NONE- unless one of us happens to be outside when the other person disengages the CAT and opens the stove to reload it.  Otherwise there is no smoke and even very little aroma coming out of the chimney- and we've been burning in the "normal" range on the thermostat dial since last night.


----------



## becasunshine

Also, today- the Princess not only heated the house, but she cooked our dinner (spaghetti meat sauce with tortellini, steamed broccoli and re-heated home made rolls) and she dried a load of clothes on a rack set at a safe distance from the stove.  Pretty amazing in terms of costs savings in propane for us.  If we were willing to heat our water on the stove top, haul it to the bathroom and take a bath instead of a shower we would have used NO propane and very little electricity since arriving last night.


----------



## claybe

Okay, I have my princess insert apart and have a question. I have the tstat turned all the way down and the flapper is still open about an inch?  Is that what it is supposed to do???


----------



## claybe

Oh and I did the dollar bill test on the bypass door and it is very loose. How do I tighten that?


----------



## claybe

Okay I did the hair dryer test and the flapper closed all the way. It looks like I have to tighten the bypass door by tightening the cables attached to the handle.


----------



## weatherguy

drz1050 said:


> The Progress Hybrid has the same size firebox as the Princess, and they're both rated at 81% efficiency.. what higher HP do you mean?
> 
> The Ideal Steel is larger.


HP = horsepower . The Princess insert has 2.54 cf box, smaller than the free stander, the PH has a higher BTU rating and I can tell you from running it this week it gets my house warmer than the Princess ever did and I haven't run it nearly as hot as it's capable, I think the Princess Free Stander I a little bit better heater than the insert. Both great stoves but I think the PH is better for my situation.


----------



## drz1050

Ahh, I didn't realize you were referring to the insert, thought you were comparing free standing to free standing. 

My fault, glad you're happy with the new one!


----------



## BKVP

Doug Morford said:


> This is interesting.  My current cat was not in the best shape, so I replaced my it yesterday with a new Steelcat and it changed the burn quite a bit.  The temperature fluctuations are pretty much non-existent now.  The cat went ape for the first few hours, but after that it smoothed right out.  This was on a setting of 1.25 for the entire burn (which still has a lot left to go than the graph shows).
> 
> I think it takes less of a damper opening now to get the cat to burn hotter.  Basically, the new cat is more responsive to increases in smoke, and it is awesome.


Doug you have an


claybe said:


> Okay, I have my princess insert apart and have a question. I have the tstat turned all the way down and the flapper is still open about an inch?  Is that what it is supposed to do???


yes....7/8" at room temperature.


----------



## BKVP

claybe said:


> Oh and I did the dollar bill test on the bypass door and it is very loose. How do I tighten that?


There is a nut and bolt on the bypass plate. LOOSEN THE 7/16" NUT FIRST AS IT IS A KEEPER NUT.  Then rotate the head of the bolt 1/4 turn, rescuer the keeper nut.  Remember the metals expand when heated so do a small incremental adjustment.


----------



## BKVP

claybe said:


> Okay I did the hair dryer test and the flapper closed all the way. It looks like I have to tighten the bypass door by tightening the cables attached to the handle.


No.  Follow the above procedure.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter and others is Fairbanks, Fox or North Pole, I will be up your way next weekend and the following weeks through December 3rd.

If anyone wants that offer of a free beer, let me know.


----------



## claybe

Thanks Chris! Again, I appreciate your presence here  I had her apart for about 4 hours today. The wire that is attached to the bypass lever was severed and holding on by one strand. I had to perform surgery and it took forever to put back together with new wire. But I think I got it. I have been contemplating this design and an upgrade for the past 5 hours. I think I have a few ideas and will continue to think about it as I think it can be better. I also noticed that the screw holes that hold in the tstat are adjustable. It was set with the flapper as far open as possible and I adjusted it to be as closed as possible. I will see what that does. It is neat to see how it all works!!  I think you should have to tour the factory and see how they work before you buy one


----------



## Poindexter

BKVP said:


> Poindexter and others is Fairbanks, Fox or North Pole, I will be up your way next weekend and the following weeks through December 3rd.
> 
> If anyone wants that offer of a free beer, let me know.




HooDoo?  Not Tuesday or Thursday nights, I take hospital call.  Otherwise, I will be delighted to get part of the price of my stove back in a pint glass.

When you have time, can I hear your opinion(s) about proposed local air quality regs, cat stoves and bio-logs?  I don't see that my exhaust plume is any cleaner running biologs compared to 11-15% MC cordwood.

If you'd rather talk about fishing and hunting when you are here that's great, I am a 338 federal man myself, and next year I will be leaving my boat at home to dip net the Kasilof for reds from the beach.

psst: Can I bring my wife?


----------



## BKVP

HooDoo is perfect.  The owner is a BK owner and wanted me to show up there anyway.   I am flying up to speak with all the players at DEC and the borough offices.  I will attend all the meetings as well.  I think the opacity rule needs work, but it would get some folks more involved in clean burning habits.

How about Monday evening?  Certainly bring your wife, I may bring a friend as well.  I'll give you a call when I get a firm schedule of my activities.

I'm a 338 RUM fan myself.  We can discuss hunting and stoves, they go together!


----------



## Poindexter

Monday Dec first is good for me.  Monday the 8th I'll be coming off a 60 hour weekend call shift and may be asleep.

I agree local burning habits is a big part of the problem.  I drove by two of them just this afternoon.  If not 100% opacity than 99.9+%.  Both of them with plenty of wide open space on the lawn to be five years ahead on seasoning firewood, and still plenty of room to play croquet.

I have read that 400 and 500 yard opportunities are becoming commonplace in Idaho and western OR/WA, making the magnum rifle cartridges practically de rigueur.  Hoping to take a caribou from about 75 yards with a 45 Colt pistol next season myself.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter said:


> Monday Dec first is good for me.  Monday the 8th I'll be coming off a 60 hour weekend call shift and may be asleep.
> 
> I agree local burning habits is a big part of the problem.  I drove by two of them just this afternoon.  If not 100% opacity than 99.9+%.  Both of them with plenty of wide open space on the lawn to be five years ahead on seasoning firewood, and still plenty of room to play croquet.
> 
> I have read that 400 and 500 yard opportunities are becoming commonplace in Idaho and western OR/WA, making the magnum rifle cartridges practically de rigueur.  Hoping to take a caribou from about 75 yards with a 45 Colt pistol next season myself.


 
Spring bruin 2013, 1167 yards.  338 RUM and NightForce 12x42 NXS.
Monday the first is the day! (Evening)
There seems to be a lack of interest for enforcement responsibility in the Borough/State.  While dealers are selling only stoves below 2.5 gr/hr., some merchants are still selling exempt stoves around the area. 
For those not up to date on your stove change out (and this will get some comments!) the borough will give you up to $3,400 to turn in old pre EPA stoves to be used towards getting a stove that is 2,5 gr/hr or less.  Yet there is no restriction on coal emissions from either the power plants or residential burning.
And if you have an EPA approved model that is rated at greater than 2.5, it too can be traded in for financial support.

It seems to me to be a patchwork of efforts with little coordination from all parties involved.


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> When you have time, can I hear your opinion(s) about proposed local air quality regs, cat stoves and bio-logs?  I don't see that my exhaust plume is any cleaner running biologs compared to 11-15% MC cordwood.


 
I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.

I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.

Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.
> 
> I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.
> 
> Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.


 
Highbeam,

As you all know I use NIELS.  My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes.  Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons.  Then I reload again.

Two weeks ago I was honored to speak at the Stove Design Challenge II held at Brookhaven National Labs.  I had the opportunity to share with many regulators the various effects draft has on stove performance.  Emissions, burn time, heat transference efficiency etc, all varied when only slight changes were made to varying chimne installs and draft manipulation. (brand of pipe, length of pipe, number of elbows, length of horizontal runs, single wall, double wall, barometeric or key dampers etc.)

It's safe to say that even a 1 gr/hr unit can be made to burn differently (dirtier) depending upon dozens or variables. (Variability being the operative word)

Getting everyone to understand all of this has been a challenge.  I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.


----------



## Rich2343

BKVP said:


> Highbeam,
> 
> As you all know I use NIELS.  My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes.  Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons.  Then I reload again.
> 
> Two weeks ago I was honored to speak at the Stove Design Challenge II held at Brookhaven National Labs.  I had the opportunity to share with many regulators the various effects draft has on stove performance.  Emissions, burn time, heat transference efficiency etc, all varied when only slight changes were made to varying chimne installs and draft manipulation. (brand of pipe, length of pipe, number of elbows, length of horizontal runs, single wall, double wall, barometeric or key dampers etc.)
> 
> It's safe to say that even a 1 gr/hr unit can be made to burn differently (dirtier) depending upon dozens or variables. (Variability being the operative word)
> 
> Getting everyone to understand all of this has been a challenge.  I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.


Chris I understand now what your saying the BK wood stove is a Lot like a high preformance muscle car. One has a car however a little tweek here and their makes a termendunce amounts of horsepower. Someone says they did a 1/8 in 6.6 we want to go equal of faster. Well in our case here we're after a alot of heat example one says 20 hrs @ 450 ....


----------



## BKVP

Correct.  Influences in your example, drop air pressure in the rear tires, advance timing 1 degree, raise octane 2 points, keep engine warm between runs etc.  I raced.  I made all the classic assumptions....and I hated (and still do) to lose!

Solid fuel heaters are just as complex.

I had a guy the other day say his brand new Ashford 30 was pouring smoke into the dining area of his restaurant. 8' of double wall and 6' of chimney. No elbows.  Smoked with first fire, both door open and door closed.  Fire died minute door was closed.  If he had posted here, classic observations would be:

1) wet wood
2) failure to open by pass
3) insuffient air or blocked passage air way
4) blockage in pipe or cap
5) backwards wound spring in thermostat (ugh)
6) paint curing
7) many more.....

So I called the guy, my rep and dealer both at odds over situation....so I called him directly.  In just a few minutes of his venting (nice words for being upset) I told him to go to the stove and we can go over the operation.

When I said turn the thermostat knob to warmest setting he said "what thermostat knob?"  He thought the black knob was for the fans.  I said no, that would be the rheostat knob located in the lower right corner.  He said that knob was missing.  I asked about the shaft the knob would be on and he said "oh, I remember I did not order the fans for this stove."

I'll tell you more Owners Manuals are used to start the first fire than all fire starters combined!


----------



## Poindexter

BKVP said:


> Spring bruin 2013, 1167 yards.  338 RUM and NightForce 12x42 NXS.



That's a rifle shot from more than a half mile away.  zounds.




BKVP said:


> Monday the first is the day! (Evening)



Cool. 




BKVP said:


> There seems to be a lack of interest for enforcement responsibility in the Borough/State.  While dealers are selling only stoves below 2.5 gr/hr., some merchants are still selling exempt stoves around the area.
> For those not up to date on your stove change out (and this will get some comments!) the borough will give you up to $3,400 to turn in old pre EPA stoves to be used towards getting a stove that is 2,5 gr/hr or less.  Yet there is no restriction on coal emissions from either the power plants or residential burning.
> And if you have an EPA approved model that is rated at greater than 2.5, it too can be traded in for financial support.
> 
> It seems to me to be a patchwork of efforts with little coordination from all parties involved.



There have been several upgrade programs recently.  The wife and I qualified for one earlier this year that let us turn in our old (EPA cert non-cat) stove  and get reimbursed up to $4000 for a new EPA cert stove - provided the new stove tested at half or less than half of the emissions of the stove we turned in, and less than 2.5 grams per hour.  Even the BK princess wan't quite clean enough - or our old stove was already clean enough, whatever, the size 30BK was the only stove on the market that emitted less than half of what our old stove did, it was either the Sirocco, the Chinook or the Ashford.  The wife liked the Ashford.

Two reasonable articles in the News Miner this fall,  One was an editorial ahead of the election pointing out that if we don't regulate ourselves into clean air the feds will regulate us into clean air - therefore shouldn't we as independent small government types clean up our own air? 

When the election came the resolution re-authorizing the borough to regulate air quality passed- with the voters most in favor voting in the precincts with the dirtiest air, again according to an article in the News-Miner.  I live about 150 meters from Wood River Elementary School myself, a poster child neighborhood for what's wrong with burning wood.

Besides "we have always done it this way", another common theme is our air quality sucks in the summer time too.  Forest fires around here don't tend to threaten structures, so the forest service lets them burn, the smoke drifts into town, invariably on Friday afternoons, and "doesn't wood smoke from forest fires cause asthma in little kids too?"

And the automobile emissions regs were allowed to expire a couple years ago, by itself that didn't solve the problem. 

"Uncoordinated Patchwork" is an excellent synopsis of the situation.  Thanks for doing what you can to fight the good fight.  I am in favor of small government, but I am also in favor of responsible citizenry.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the Princess is a good stove by all accounts. If I could have gotten one I would have looked real hard at giving up a bedroom to put a stove in my downstairs "office", paid the $$$ to extend my chimney from upstairs to downstairs and saved even more money on my oil bill.  But, my old stove was rated at 3.4 grams per hour, so to get the upgraded stove on that particular borough program back in the spring we had to find a new stove at less than 1.7 grams per hour.  Princess is rated at 1.74gr/hr.  Dang good, but just above my upper limit.


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> I concur. I ran an experiment this last week with North Idaho Energy Logs in an effort to be smoke free. Seems the clean air bozos think that biologs have much lower particulate emissions. The NIELs smoked significantly more in my BK at the same settings, same ambient temps. Smokier to start, smokier after 12 hours. They did last a long time, an easy 24 hours on 6 of them.
> 
> I also ran a similar test in my non-cat stove and while the NIELs were smokier to start, they burned smoke free after warm up. Just fast, didn't last very long.
> 
> Back to 2.5 year CSS doug fir in my BK and the stove is either smoke free or intermittently light smoke during the burn. Cordwood burns cleaner than biologs in my experience. Not sure if smoke=the emissions that the clean air bozos are worried about but visible smoke is what I am worried about.




I have a pretty good hunch that exhaust plume opacity isn't the entire story.  Probably a clean plume, sort of like a clean spark plug can tell us that everything is working pretty good.  But like a spark plug an unclean exhaust plume alone doesn't tell us the whole story.  Probably.


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> Highbeam,
> 
> As you all know I use NIELS.  My cap in my King shows slight visible emissions during reload for approximately 8-10 minutes.  Once the load stabilizes, my King cruises along fine for up to 12 hours with zero visible emisisons.  Then I reload again.  I have said it before (30 times today alone), no two stove installs are alike.


 
I tried to be careful and objective in creating a data point. My "by the book" installation, my long burn goals, my clean burn goals, my definition of "smoke", demonstrated that the NIELs are a smokey fuel source from cold start to at least 12 hours. Perhaps there is an installation and control setting that allows the NIELs to be smoke free and that would be another data point. As you said Chris, each install is different. The only way to get valuable data is by collecting data instead of discounting each report. I accept that your king can do 12 hour cycles smoke free though I understand that your stove, flue, cat condition, stat setting, and climate may be different.


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> Princess is rated at 1.74gr/hr.  Dang good, but just above my upper limit.


 
I could have sworn it was mid 2s gph but I don't pay much attention. Visible smoke and gph may not be directly related. For one thing, steam increases opacity.


----------



## craigbaill

BKVP said:


> Correct.  Influences in your example, drop air pressure in the rear tires, advance timing 1 degree, raise octane 2 points, keep engine warm between runs etc.  I raced.  I made all the classic assumptions....and I hated (and still do) to lose!
> 
> Solid fuel heaters are just as complex.
> 
> I had a guy the other day say his brand new Ashford 30 was pouring smoke into the dining area of his restaurant. 8' of double wall and 6' of chimney. No elbows.  Smoked with first fire, both door open and door closed.  Fire died minute door was closed.  If he had posted here, classic observations would be:
> 
> 1) wet wood
> 2) failure to open by pass
> 3) insuffient air or blocked passage air way
> 4) blockage in pipe or cap
> 5) backwards wound spring in thermostat (ugh)
> 6) paint curing
> 7) many more.....
> 
> So I called the guy, my rep and dealer both at odds over situation....so I called him directly.  In just a few minutes of his venting (nice words for being upset) I told him to go to the stove and we can go over the operation.
> 
> When I said turn the thermostat knob to warmest setting he said "what thermostat knob?"  He thought the black knob was for the fans.  I said no, that would be the rheostat knob located in the lower right corner.  He said that knob was missing.  I asked about the shaft the knob would be on and he said "oh, I remember I did not order the fans for this stove."
> 
> I'll tell you more Owners Manuals are used to start the first fire than all fire starters combined!




Classic...... Wow, just wow. But at least you got him squared away! Its a shame to have such a great piece of equipment but not get it to function properly. RTFM is a mantra for me. Lots of good info in those manuals! Places like this and folks like you BKVP give us the right info to make it all work.


----------



## becasunshine

As God as my witness, I started the first fire in our Princess with the owners manual opened on the nearby table, and in my hands when the stove or the fire wood were not.  My husband was clear across the country in Vegas at a conference. 

I did exactly what the manual said to do, word for word. 

I'd never once in my life started a wood stove fire before that night. 

I had more trouble with our overly sensitive smoke alarms than I even dreamed about having with the stove.  The stove behaved *exactly* like the manual said it would- *to the letter.
*
Our fire wood is dry enough that we don't have to let the stove run on high as long as the manual recommends- that is the only deviation we've done since starting the stove up last month. 

The manual is priceless- it tells you exactly what to do, and when you do that, the stove does exactly what the manual says it will do.  Honestly, I wish all appliances adhered to the manual the way the Princess does.

(At a neighbor's suggestion we replaced the overly sensitive smoke alarm in the near vicinity to the stove with a system compliant heat alarm from the same manufacturer.  It's plug and play and talks to all of the other alarms just like the smoke alarm in that location did.  Since replacing that smoke alarm with the heat alarm and getting past the curing stage, our alarm issues appear to be over as well.)


----------



## SKRAE

Thoughts on running 24-30" of single wall from a princess to my chimney liner in a alcove?


----------



## BKVP

SKRAE said:


> Thoughts on running 24-30" of single wall from a princess to my chimney liner in a alcove?


 

No.  Please use double wall as recommended in the Owners Manual, page 14.


----------



## SKRAE

BKVP said:


> No. Please use double wall as recommended in the Owners Manual, page 14.



10/4

Thanks!


----------



## Poindexter

Highbeam said:


> I could have sworn it was mid 2s gph but I don't pay much attention. Visible smoke and gph may not be directly related. For one thing, steam increases opacity.


 
I stand corrected.  It is the King that is rated 1.76 grams per hour.  I could likely heat my entire 2400 sqft with that, but getting heat from the lower level to the upper level was not a chore the architect planned on a later home owner undertaking successfully.

http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-king.html 

Yup, I expect white smoke is mostly water vapor from burning wet wood. 

The ones that really bug me - and it may not be born out by data - are the ones with a dark black plume coming out one edge of the stack with 60-80% of the stack mouth seeming to be putting out nothing.  Like if you hold a spoon right over a lit candle and it starts to smoking real hard, but all the smoke seems to come out from under the spoon in one narrow spot.


----------



## becasunshine

Poindexter said:


> I stand corrected.  It is the King that is rated 1.76 grams per hour.  I could likely heat my entire 2400 sqft with that...



I have a question.  Why does the King, a larger stove, have less particulate emissions than the Princess, and by a pretty good margin?  (1.76 vs. 2.42 gm/hr)

The location in which our Princess is installed is in little danger of thermal inversions and subsequent burn bans, as I understand the set up for thermal inversions.  This was one reason why we went with the slightly larger Princess for less money rather than the smaller Ashford 30 for more money. 

I entertained putting the King in that location briefly, because it gets blasted cold there in the winter with a wicked wind chill, but it's not Alaska, the Great Lakes region, Canada  or New England, even in the coldest months.   And the winter isn't as long, and the house is new construction, well insulated and pretty tight. The stove store owner did not recommend the King, said we'd have way too much stove.

Why does the larger stove have lower particulate emissions, and how did Blaze King get the particulate emissions so low in the Ashford 30?


----------



## Poindexter

beca, I am punting those questions to BKVP because I don't know.  I am gonna speculate it has to do with the size and dimensions of the firebox, the size of the cat and similar math stuff.

I do know the Ashford 30 shares internal firebox with the Sirocco and the Chinook, just three different skins on the same box.  Same with the 20s.

Your implied understanding of thermal inversions sounds correct.  Just as Los Angeles is hemmed in on three sides by mountains and has open to the sea on the west, Fairbanks is hemmed in by tall ridges to the West, North and East, and open to a wetland the size of New Hampshire to the south. 

Define "blasted cold" ;-)


----------



## Highbeam

1,3,5 gph. I'm not too concerned since as we know, emissions are determined more by the end user than a new stove in a lab. I can make any stove spew black. I recommend not fixating on 1 gph either way.


----------



## BKVP

becasunshine said:


> I have a question.  Why does the King, a larger stove, have less particulate emissions than the Princess, and by a pretty good margin?  (1.76 vs. 2.42 gm/hr)
> 
> The location in which our Princess is installed is in little danger of thermal inversions and subsequent burn bans, as I understand the set up for thermal inversions.  This was one reason why we went with the slightly larger Princess for less money rather than the smaller Ashford 30 for more money.
> 
> I entertained putting the King in that location briefly, because it gets blasted cold there in the winter with a wicked wind chill, but it's not Alaska, the Great Lakes region, Canada  or New England, even in the coldest months.   And the winter isn't as long, and the house is new construction, well insulated and pretty tight. The stove store owner did not recommend the King, said we'd have way too much stove.
> 
> Why does the larger stove have lower particulate emissions, and how did Blaze King get the particulate emissions so low in the Ashford 30?
> 
> View attachment 145777
> View attachment 145778



I have addressed this in previous posts so you may wish to review that explanation.  In short, all wood stoves must conduct four burns defined by consumption rate measured in kg/hr.  Each of the four burns has a specific range that must be maintained during that burn.  This range is wide enough that you can get rather different results depending upon something as unmanageable as how the test fuel collapses during the burn and if your burn rate (kg/hr) is at the high end of the range or the low end of the range.  From all four runs, resulted are then placed into a weighted formula that again is influenced by firebox volume and again.....much more.

Respectfully, 1.76 vs 2.48 is not as wide a range as you might think given the fact that test fuel and cord wood both are not a metered fuel.  With variability in density, moisture content, and so much more.  

In addition to all the above, due to firebox size of the King, it is tested with 4" x 4" dimensional lumber and the smaller fire boxes are required to test with 2" x 4" dimensional lumber.

If you still have an interest in all of this, purchase a copy of Method 28 for solid fuel heaters.  You can download from the web directly, no need to approach any test agencies.  Then and only then will you say "wholly cow how do these poor guys and gals even pass these tests!"

As for why the Ashford 30 tested so low in emissions....all the above and much more that will remain proprietary.

Have a great Thanksgiving to all!

Chris
Alias BKVP


----------



## becasunshine

Poindexter said:


> beca, I am punting those questions to BKVP because I don't know.  I am gonna speculate it has to do with the size and dimensions of the firebox, the size of the cat and similar math stuff.
> 
> I do know the Ashford 30 shares internal firebox with the Sirocco and the Chinook, just three different skins on the same box.  Same with the 20s.
> 
> Your implied understanding of thermal inversions sounds correct.  Just as Los Angeles is hemmed in on three sides by mountains and has open to the sea on the west, Fairbanks is hemmed in by tall ridges to the West, North and East, and open to a wetland the size of New Hampshire to the south.
> 
> Define "blasted cold" ;-)



Thank you, Poindexter!  

"Blasted cold":

That river is about 2.5 miles wide, and it bends right at our neighborhood.  Above us and below us it flows east to west.  As it passes our area, it bends and flows roughly north to south.  This bend in this large body of water seems to promote something of a Bernoulli/Venturi effect on the resultant thermals, and boy, do we get wind.  I've seen this river look like the ocean just off of our neighborhood, and winds are often brutal in the winter.

The highest winds we've recorded at our house since we've owned it have been just under 75 mph, and that was not associated with any sort of hurricane or tropical storm.  That was just a thunderstorm that blew through.  We've had winter winds over 60 mph unrelated to any storm system at all.  We are sea level and flat as far as the eye can see, so we are a very low risk for thermal inversion.

The ambient temperature is cold enough by our standards- probably not by yours though.  The wind chill from the wind off of the water is what really does it.  We have a dual HVAC in that house, heat pump with a propane furnace which automatically kicks in below a certain temperature that I forget like that's my job.  I want to say that the propane furnace kicks in below 40'F but that might not be right.  At any rate, the propane furnace kicks in before the heat coils fire up in the heat pump.

The furnace is under the house, and this house has a nice, thick foundation.  The exterior walls are 6" and the foundation is skim coated for additional insulation.  The condenser drain for the gas furnace (as well as the outdoor unit for the heat pump/ac) are located on the shore side of the house, not the water side.  Smart thinking on the part of the builder and the system installer.  We aren't water front but there is an unobstructed field between us and the water, and the house takes the weather off of the water directly on the back side. Winds against the back of the house are so intense in the winter that even though the exterior walls are 6" and well insulated, we put UL rated insulation inserts behind all of the switch plates and outlet covers because we could feel the wind coming in around the electrical outlets.  After we did that, I swore I could still feel a draft- put my hand down to one of the outlets and sure enough, the wind was forcing itself through the prong slits in the actual outlet itself.  So then we installed those child proof outlet plugs in all of the outlets that are not in continuous use.

So, by intentional design, the outdoor unit for the heat pump/ac and the condenser drain for the furnace are in a protected L-corner on the front of the house.

We keep the house at 50'F in the winter when we aren't there.

Last winter was quite cold for our latitude.  We go to the river at various times all year long because we love it there, because we need to show up and take care of the place, and because we have room there to air out that Labbie in my profile picture, and a place to let him swim if he wants to swim in the winter (which he does in all but the coldest weather.)  So we were there one weekend last year (before the wood stove) and we warmed the house up to 65'F.

I can usually roll with 65'F and a sweater but for some reason, probably the open floor plan in one half of the house and the 9' ceilings, and because it's super cold outside with that wind, 65'F is less comfortable to me at the river than it is at the little house in town.  But OK.  We warmed the house up to 65'F and kept it there all weekend.

We knew we'd be back the very next weekend for a community fund raising event, so we set the HVAC thermostat to raise the temp from 50'F to 65'F starting Friday afternoon.  We've not yet invested in a remote controlled thermostat.   We can set the thermostat to raise the temperature for the weekend before we arrive and lower it again Sunday evening, but if for some reason we don't go to the river that weekend we've just heated the house up for nothing.  So we typically wait until we get there to raise the thermostat, because, especially in the wintertime, who knows what plans may change?  On this particular weekend, we knew we'd be back, so we programmed the thermostat to warm up the house.

Imagine our surprise and disappointment when we arrived Friday night to find that the interior of the house was at 33'F.  The walls, the floors, the furniture, everything was ice cold.  Outside temps were around 14'F with snow on the ground but the wind was blowing steadily off of the water, so the wind chill was below zero.

We had power and the thermostat was trying to fire up the furnace, and the furnace would fire, but it immediately cut itself off.

Hubs crawled under the house, did a quick look around, didn't see an obvious problem, so we called the builder who lives right across the street to ask for the name of the company that installed the furnace, so we could put in an emergency call.  It wasn't for our comfort's sake- we were concerned about losing pipes.

God bless the builder, who left his warm house and came over to help us even though we didn't ask him to.  He and Hubs crawled back under the house, and this time my husband figured out that he needed to check the condenser reservoir.  It was full and not draining, which is why the furnace wouldn't stay lit.  The condenser drain on the front of the house, protected in between the foundation, an L-shaped corner between two walls, and the outside HVAC unit had nonetheless frozen solid all the way back up to the foundation.

Thank God they figured it out because the HVAC company could not have gotten to us that night regardless.  I don't think those guys caught their collective breaths until sometime the next week.  Everybody's everything froze up that weekend- it was like we reached critical weather mass on that Friday night and everything we all had froze up.  Our builder has lived in the area for his entire life, as has generations of his family before him. He and the other construction people who have lived in that area for their entire lives build well and build conscientiously for the prevailing conditions.  Our builder builds a SOLID house.  But even though we are on the water, our "prevailing conditions" don't typically involve a prolonged Polar Vortex like last year.

Hubs emptied the condenser reservoir, we boiled water and got the drain thawed.  The furnace fired right up, but it took a solid 24 hours to reach 65'F inside the house.

Interestingly enough, it was warmer UNDER the house in the crawl space than it was inside the house when we got there.  Per above, the foundation is substantial, with the intent of protecting those pipes in cold weather.  The furnace pilot light provides some heat.  Despite being without heat in the house for some days, the only pipes that froze were the lines to the washing machine against the exterior wall, and they didn't freeze to bursting, thank God.

Anyway, we'd been thinking about an alternative to propane heat for that location, and some heat source that could carry the entire house during a power outage, so we'd already decided on a wood stove and we were leaning toward a Blaze King or a Woodstock.  We'd been to the Wood Stove Decathlon in D.C. and we'd narrowed it down to a Princess or an Ideal Steel.  We were debating about whether to wait for the Ideal Steel to go into general production or whether we'd go with the Princess.

That weekend sort of sealed the deal on going ahead with the Princess.  

Hubs did some work with that drain tube to reduce the likelihood of it freezing up again, and he put some heat tape on some of the pipes under the house, so hopefully the furnace won't freeze up again- but if we have another winter on the water like that, it's anybody's guess what will freeze up.   Per above, I know we aren't in Alaska, or in the Arctic Circle, or in Canada, the Great Lakes or New England, but this is atypical for us.


----------



## Poindexter

Give a choice between -50dF ambient with no wind, or -20dF ambient with a windchill of -50dF, I'll take the lower ambient with no wind.

When your wind is coming off the water like that it probaly has supercooled water vapor in it that will freeze as soon as it contacts something warm enough, like exposed skin.  I'll pass thanks.  At -20dF up here it is perfectly reasonable to get the dead animal skins out of the downstairs closet and dress for the weather.

FWIW below -30dF stuff like fanbelts and tires start just breaking apart.  At 50 below the properties of metals start changing unfavorably.


----------



## becasunshine

Poindexter said:


> Give a choice between -50dF ambient with no wind, or -20dF ambient with a windchill of -50dF, I'll take the lower ambient with no wind.
> 
> When your wind is coming off the water like that it probaly has supercooled water vapor in it that will freeze as soon as it contacts something warm enough, like exposed skin.  I'll pass thanks.  At -20dF up here it is perfectly reasonable to get the dead animal skins out of the downstairs closet and dress for the weather.
> 
> FWIW below -30dF stuff like fanbelts and tires start just breaking apart.  At 50 below the properties of metals start changing unfavorably.



We don't get that cold here even on the most brutal of years.

I will say this:  I have spent my entire life on the Mid-Atlantic eastern seaboard and I thought I knew a little something about winter on the water here.  Since spending time at our current location on the river for the past few years, I have a whole new respect for the local watermen and marine construction guys who make their living all year long on this water.  That pier in the picture above is a new community pier that was constructed a few years ago.  The contractor was a one man operation- this guy and his pylon sinker.  He put that pier in by himself, pylons and all, in January.   January.  By himself.   The pier is as solid as it gets and he did the whole thing by himself in about a week and a half.  And he put a pier in before it in another neighborhood, and he had a job lined up to put another pier in right after it.

I would have been curled up in the fetal position under my bed until May at the thought of putting in a pier in January, much less putting in a pier by myself in January. 

OK, back to discussions of AWESOME BLAZE KING WOOD STOVES, already in progress!


----------



## Rossco

Some long posts Dayyyaaam.

At -42C I pressed the clutch pedal in on my cold service truck and it never came back up.

This is what dry wood and a decent draft will get you, reloaded 2hrs ago, set to the cool side of norm, right on the line before it enters the zone.

1hr ago I shut it down to 1.5. The pics are deceiving, the wood pile is active. 





650F ontop, fans running full tilt.









I expect the unit to cool off in the next few hours.

@ that setting with the current ambient temps, I imagine it will run around till noon.

My legs are still burning from taking them pics.


----------



## BKVP

I can't comment I have my head in the jaw of a grizzly right now!


----------



## becasunshine

turbojoe said:


> The way i see it, the danger of burning down a cat isn't so much of an issue of overfiring, it would seem that opening the door on a hot Cat. Give a hot cat a bit of fresh air could create a meltdown.
> We are not as hot, i would think the exotherm wouldn't be as aggressive.
> Sorry to clog the BK thread.  And please feel free to correct me BKVP... or whom ever



OK, I overthink things.  I own that right now, right here.  But- when we need to reload, we open the bypass, go out to the porch, grab a few pieces of firewood, walk back into the house, a few steps, then unlatch the door to the stove.   We give it a few seconds, open it slowly, then add wood.

How would one let the CAT "cool down" before one opens the door?  Or am I in the middle of a theoretical discussion (totally understandable and legit) with a pragmatic thing that doesn't go here?


----------



## becasunshine

Rossco said:


> Some long posts Dayyyaaam.
> My legs are still burning from taking them pics.



He asked me to describe "blasted cold."  I did.  

Nice pics.


----------



## Rossco

becasunshine said:


> He asked me to describe "blasted cold."  I did.
> 
> Nice pics.



Yeah for sure. Am only Jesting.

That night the temps did take a dive down to 220C on top but she made it all the way round till 14:00 today.


----------



## Lanningjw

My by-pass cable just broke after a reload of red oak. By pass is open, turned the t stat all the down. Will I be ok.


----------



## BKVP

Lanningjw said:


> My by-pass cable just broke after a reload of red oak. By pass is open, turned the t stat all the down. Will I be ok.


Yes.  Call 509-522-2730 Monday or call your dealer tomorrow.  If you call Monday, ask for Jennifer and you'll need your serial number (unless you filed a warranty registration, then she can look it up).

Your dealer can get a repair kit on order and drop ship to you.  Some dealers have one for just this rare occasion.


----------



## becasunshine

OK.  I posted a link to this product in the larger forum. 

When I found this product my head exploded.  (Huge mess.)

Now I wonder if the CAT in the Princess would somehow interfere with the smoke in the smoke stack being hot enough to run this oven.  ???

We have an old school Coleman camp oven that we've used on a Coleman camp stove for baking biscuits, etc.  I'm going to try that on top of the Princess soon (maybe this weekend.) 

BUT THEN I FOUND THIS PRODUCT.  

What think you, Wise Ones?

https://www.lehmans.com/p-4873-bakers-salute-oven.aspx


----------



## turbojoe

becasunshine said:


> OK, I overthink things.  I own that right now, right here.  But- when we need to reload, we open the bypass, go out to the porch, grab a few pieces of firewood, walk back into the house, a few steps, then unlatch the door to the stove.   We give it a few seconds, open it slowly, then add wood.
> 
> How would one let the CAT "cool down" before one opens the door?  Or am I in the middle of a theoretical discussion (totally understandable and legit) with a pragmatic thing that doesn't go here?


I'm pretty new myself but that's what seems to be the practice. That;s how i do it.  
Your stove would have to be ripping on a fresh load and closed down. The major off gassing would have the Cat HOT, a rich fuel condition would be present, add a bit of fresh air and the cat could go woof, So i guess what i'm saying is we don't have much to worry about.


----------



## BKVP

becasunshine said:


> OK.  I posted a link to this product in the larger forum.
> 
> When I found this product my head exploded.  (Huge mess.)
> 
> Now I wonder if the CAT in the Princess would somehow interfere with the smoke in the smoke stack being hot enough to run this oven.  ???
> 
> We have an old school Coleman camp oven that we've used on a Coleman camp stove for baking biscuits, etc.  I'm going to try that on top of the Princess soon (maybe this weekend.)
> 
> BUT THEN I FOUND THIS PRODUCT.
> 
> What think you, Wise Ones?
> 
> https://www.lehmans.com/p-4873-bakers-salute-oven.aspx


I would not recommend this product for many reasons.  First, your stack temps, while very manageable, will have a tough time exceeding 300 degrees.  Your stove needs that heat to stay in the chimney for reliable performance.  All that steel would be a heat sink and take that draft necessary heat from the system.

For the record, we made a bake oven just like this that sat on the stove.  But they were for our pre EPA models that were vastly less efficient and lost plenty of heat up the flue.


----------



## becasunshine

BKVP said:


> I would not recommend this product for many reasons.  First, your stack temps, while very manageable, will have a tough time exceeding 300 degrees.  Your stove needs that heat to stay in the chimney for reliable performance.  All that steel would be a heat sink and take that draft necessary heat from the system.
> 
> For the record, we made a bake oven just like this that sat on the stove.  But they were for our pre EPA models that were vastly less efficient and lost plenty of heat up the flue.


 
Perfect- thank you!  This is exactly the feedback I/we needed. 

Once upon a camping time we had a Coleman camp oven that we used on top of our Coleman stove.  I swear I do not remember giving it away but we don't have it now.  Hubs thinks I got rid of it during a clean out when we bought our last trailer.  I could see that; we have an oven in our little trailer so we didn't need the camp oven anymore (so I thought.)  Darn it!  Oh well; we can still get a Coleman camp stove if we want it.  I need to measure the available space on top of the stove before we buy another one though.

Thank you, Chris!


----------



## Parallax

For the last few weeks I've been burning Douglas fir that's not all that dry. Most splits test at around 22%. 

I'm thinking of taking a two-hour drive down to Tacoma to pick up this stuff:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/fod/4741483687.html

The price seems great. Has anyone used these Tacoma firelogs? I'm thinking of picking up a one-ton pallet for $225.


----------



## Highbeam

Parallax said:


> For the last few weeks I've been burning Douglas fir that's not all that dry. Most splits test at around 22%.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking a two-hour drive down to Tacoma to pick up this stuff:
> 
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/fod/4741483687.html
> 
> The price seems great. Has anyone used these Tacoma firelogs? I'm thinking of picking up a one-ton pallet for $225.



The price is right if the product burns as well as the niels. Would be ideal to test burn a 50# load to see how you like them.

I think it's cool that they are stamped Tacoma.


----------



## Lanningjw

BKVP said:


> Yes.  Call 509-522-2730 Monday or call your dealer tomorrow.  If you call Monday, ask for Jennifer and you'll need your serial number (unless you filed a warranty registration, then she can look it up).
> 
> Your dealer can get a repair kit on order and drop ship to you.  Some dealers have one for just this rare occasion.


Ok, does serial #1120 tell you what year it was made?


----------



## drz1050

Parallax said:


> For the last few weeks I've been burning Douglas fir that's not all that dry. Most splits test at around 22%.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking a two-hour drive down to Tacoma to pick up this stuff:
> 
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/fod/4741483687.html
> 
> The price seems great. Has anyone used these Tacoma firelogs? I'm thinking of picking up a one-ton pallet for $225.



You're still having short burn times, right? I'd definitely try those Tacoma logs, especially for that price.


----------



## BKVP

Lanningjw said:


> Ok, does serial #1120 tell you what year it was made?


Yes, she can tell you when it was built.


----------



## Dieselhead

allright my wife is in charge of the stove for the first time as im away for the next 40hrs. lets see how those 2 reloads go for her. this afternoon I showed her the ropes, was gone for about 10 min came back in and gave her a pop quiz and she passed! Its gonna be 10° tonight, so either she gets it right or she shivers under the comforters lol


----------



## Rossco

Dieselhead said:


> allright my wife is in charge of the stove for the first time as im away for the next 40hrs. lets see how those 2 reloads go for her. this afternoon I showed her the ropes, was gone for about 10 min came back in and gave her a pop quiz and she passed! Its gonna be 10° tonight, so either she gets it right or she shivers under the comforters lol



Oh she will figure it out. Beware she might like the heat too much, with that big firebox she might empty the wood shed before you get home Ha Ha Ha. 

Extreme weather warning here. Watching it through my living room window. Looks like the Arctic Tundra at moment which is nice.

Plenty warm in here as the wife is also cooking.


----------



## Rossco

Pretty nippy now @ 16-19C out side with gusts. Looks to be 12" of snow as its burried the firepit in the back garden. 

BK cruising with a nice load of Tamarack Rounds. 

Being experimenting with heat distribution. I have a fan on the basment stairs pushing air through the stair rungs. You can Feel the hot air being pushed up the stairs and into the main living area. Nice.


----------



## Dieselhead

She said first reload went great, everything took right off. 1 more for her tonight then I'll be home in the am for inspection haha


----------



## rdust

Parallax said:


> For the last few weeks I've been burning Douglas fir that's not all that dry. Most splits test at around 22%.



You should have no issue with 22% wood.  I've run plenty in that range thru my stove.  20% plus or minus a bit is fine.

What issues are you having?


----------



## tarzan

rdust said:


> You should have no issue with 22% wood.  I've run plenty in that range thru my stove.  20% plus or minus a bit is fine.
> 
> What issues are you having?



Was kinda thinking the same thing. 

My kids were playing outside a few days ago and I told them to bring in an arm load of wood with them. Long story short, they brought in Silver Maple that was cut in late spring of this year and should be over 20% mc. I used it anyhow and was surprised at how well it burned and heated.


----------



## Parallax

Yes, the Blaze King seems to do well with wood that's not fully dry. For the most part it's running well. I didn't go into the other part of the story. Last summer I had this amazing, beautiful, huge woodshed built. It holds more than 10 cords -- which were cut, split and stacked around the same time. I began using that wood around a month ago when a tarped stack of older wood was used up.

Now that I'm into that wood pile, I see that the guy I hired to do much of the job (about 80% of it) hid a bunch of rounds behind the first row. Getting them out, and finding a place to store them, is just a lot of schlepping. When I split the rounds, they read around 24%. But if I insert the prongs more deeply, the readings will jump up to around 30%. I don't know why I get this shift. It doesn't occur with the previously split pieces.

Alas, it's just a lot of schlepping and tracking to segregate the rounds while keeping them under cover. Besides, I'm using more wood because even the splits aren't optimally dried. So I figured I'd go grab some pressed wood logs, and just let the wood sit for another year. That far out, I might not have to bother splitting the rounds. They're all fairly small. Anything larger than 8 inches diameter, he split.

Since I last wrote, I discovered Homefire logs are made up in Ferndale which is just 30 minutes from my home (rather than 2 hours to Tacoma). They've got seconds that they sell cheap. This time of year, $150 gets you 1500 pounds of them. Those Tacoma logs were 2000 pounds for $225. I've read good things about the Homefires and the smaller load will fit more easily into my Nissan Hardbody pickup. So I'm gonna try a load of them.


----------



## claybe

BKVP said:


> There is a nut and bolt on the bypass plate. LOOSEN THE 7/16" NUT FIRST AS IT IS A KEEPER NUT.  Then rotate the head of the bolt 1/4 turn, rescuer the keeper nut.  Remember the metals expand when heated so do a small incremental adjustment.


I looked on the bypass plate and I did not see this nut and bolt. I have the princess insert.  Is this some other place?


----------



## Stump shot

No 24 hour reload today. Fighting a -21*f windchill. Will see if it will go 12 hours.


----------



## rdust

claybe said:


> I looked on the bypass plate and I did not see this nut and bolt. I have the princess insert.  Is this some other place?



You have to pull the pipe, you can't miss it!


----------



## Poindexter

I have burnt a second cord so far this season and cleaned my flue again.

The first cord lasted from 08-29-2014 to 10-20-2014, I was running on high, 3/3, for at least the first hour of every load and then turning the thermostat down.  I was also careful on cold starts to use the second thermometer on my stack for when to close the door.

I got about two tablespoons of mostly brown powder with a few scattered flecks of shiny black, pics and longer version back on page five, post 104, linky: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...read-everything-bk.132071/page-5#post-1787193 

So now I have burnt two cords and cleaned the flue again this morning.  It is a bit cooler now of course, the first cord lasted 50 days featuring 1252 (base 65) heating degree days.  Second cord lasted 39 days, 2096 heating degree days total.  The average for the first cord is real close to Indianapolis in March, the second period works out to 1572HDD per 30 day month, about like Minneapolis in January, only Minneapolis averages 1432 HDD in January, so already colder than that here in November.

I have been observing but not relying on my spare thermometer on my stack. I have been making all my decisions based soley on the cat probe in the top of my Ashford.  Been a little concerned as my observed stack temps are pretty low, but my combustor has been hot enough to be active probably 75% of all the minutes since I cleaned the flue last.

For this most recent cord I go to bypass, open the door slowly, fill the box to the brim, close the door, double check the cat probe and almost always immediately flip the lever from bypass back to engaged.  A few times (less than a dozen) I have had to wait a few minutes for the cat probe to climb back up to active before I can re-engage.

Very pleasantly surprised with my sweepings, about 1 tablespoon, mostly crumbly brown with just a little bit more shiny black than I saw with the first cord.  I am going to burn two more cords before I even look up the stack again, never mind sweep it.


----------



## weatherguy

claybe said:


> I looked on the bypass plate and I did not see this nut and bolt. I have the princess insert.  Is this some other place?


It's there but you won't see it with the stove pipe connected, I saw mine when I had pulled it out.


----------



## becasunshine

My Blaze King stove is more talented than your Blaze King stove.

Dinner:  Chicken, onions and mushrooms in a Marsala wine reduction sauce, home made rolls (reheated) and baked potatoes being reheated for garlic smashed potatoes.  (Salad on the side, not seen on the stove.) 

So what is YOUR Blaze King stove doing right now?


----------



## Poindexter

becasunshine said:


> So what is YOUR Blaze King stove doing right now?



Mine is turning a piece of last year's Christmas tree into CO2 and H2O while my wife decorates this year's Christmas tree in shorts and a tee-shirt.


----------



## claybe

rdust said:


> You have to pull the pipe, you can't miss it!


Okay thanks. I ain't pulling the pipe so it will have to be okay.  I am wishing I had the free stander!  And I am contemplating how to remove the fireplace to put a king in  Now to save enough money and convince the wife!


----------



## Rickb

Poindexter said:


> Mine is turning a piece of last year's Christmas tree into CO2 and H2O while my wife decorates this year's Christmas tree in shorts and a tee-shirt.



'
LMAO!  I just saw my wifes family and reminded them that when they come over for christmas to wear t-shirt and shorts.  Its not cold in my house....


----------



## Rossco

Well. It's a sober -30C here. Or -22F.

BK Is running good. Got her turned up a little and the forced air is on stand by.

I've noticed a steady stream of discharge from the stack. Condensation I imagine, also some rather larger Ice-sickles hanging off the bottom flange of the cap. The storm yesterday was blowing real good.

Anyhow, stay warm, have fun, smile, be lucky and god bless.


----------



## Parallax

Picked up a pallet of Homefire logs today, direct from the manufacturer. Actually, they're rejects and they come in a big box strapped to a pallet. The cost was $150. In the summer, the same box is $100. The weight pushed by old Nissan pickup down almost onto its axle but we (the box and I) managed to get home. 

Now I'm burning those little sons of a gun and I must say I'm impressed. The temperature outside tonight dropped to 16 degrees. That's about as cold as I've ever seen it here in Bellingham. Yet the stove is pounding out heat. It's a big house and I wouldn't say it's toasty. But it's alright. Certainly much better than when we were running full loads of Doug fir in the 22% range. These "logs" are burning low and strong over many hours. I didn't load that many into the box since I'd never run them before and had heard they might expand. Started off with two together with the wood that was already burning. Then I added some broken pieces a few hours later. Finally, before bed, threw in another two logs. Now it's after 5 am and it's still pumping away. 

It's going to take time to figure out the optimal load (unless someone whose used these things can give me pointers). I can see how a big load could potentially overdo it. Also, even a full pallet of these little suckers isn't going to last forever. I'd like to string it out as long as I can. Of course it wouldn't be that big a deal to run over there and grab another. Unloading the truck was a pain but not when one compares it to the amount of work that goes into cutting, splitting and stacking an equivalent amount of wood. Really, it was only a pain because it was so cold outside and the threat of moisture meant I had to get the whole thing unloaded before the sun went down.


----------



## tarzan

Parallax said:


> Picked up a pallet of Homefire logs today, direct from the manufacturer. Actually, they're rejects and they come in a big box strapped to a pallet. The cost was $150. In the summer, the same box is $100. The weight pushed by old Nissan pickup down almost onto its axle but we (the box and I) managed to get home.
> 
> Now I'm burning those little sons of a gun and I must say I'm impressed. The temperature outside tonight dropped to 16 degrees. That's about as cold as I've ever seen it here in Bellingham. Yet the stove is pounding out heat. It's a big house and I wouldn't say it's toasty. But it's alright. Certainly much better than when we were running full loads of Doug fir in the 22% range. These "logs" are burning low and strong over many hours. I didn't load that many into the box since I'd never run them before and had heard they might expand. Started off with two together with the wood that was already burning. Then I added some broken pieces a few hours later. Finally, before bed, threw in another two logs. Now it's after 5 am and it's still pumping away.
> 
> It's going to take time to figure out the optimal load (unless someone whose used these things can give me pointers). I can see how a big load could potentially overdo it. Also, even a full pallet of these little suckers isn't going to last forever. I'd like to string it out as long as I can. Of course it wouldn't be that big a deal to run over there and grab another. Unloading the truck was a pain but not when one compares it to the amount of work that goes into cutting, splitting and stacking an equivalent amount of wood. Really, it was only a pain because it was so cold outside and the threat of moisture meant I had to get the whole thing unloaded before the sun went down.



Do you plan to burn the Homefire logs exclusively for now or mixing them in with the Doug Fir you have on hand?


----------



## jeff_t

You should have no problem filling it up, especially if you can pack them tightly. Your stove will be able to control it just fine.

This is 126 pounds of Eco-Bricks in my stove.


----------



## Shane Collins

Parallax said:


> Picked up a pallet of Homefire logs today, direct from the manufacturer. Actually, they're rejects and they come in a big box strapped to a pallet. The cost was $150. In the summer, the same box is $100. The weight pushed by old Nissan pickup down almost onto its axle but we (the box and I) managed to get home.
> 
> Now I'm burning those little sons of a gun and I must say I'm impressed. The temperature outside tonight dropped to 16 degrees. That's about as cold as I've ever seen it here in Bellingham. Yet the stove is pounding out heat. It's a big house and I wouldn't say it's toasty. But it's alright. Certainly much better than when we were running full loads of Doug fir in the 22% range. These "logs" are burning low and strong over many hours. I didn't load that many into the box since I'd never run them before and had heard they might expand. Started off with two together with the wood that was already burning. Then I added some broken pieces a few hours later. Finally, before bed, threw in another two logs. Now it's after 5 am and it's still pumping away.
> 
> It's going to take time to figure out the optimal load (unless someone whose used these things can give me pointers). I can see how a big load could potentially overdo it. Also, even a full pallet of these little suckers isn't going to last forever. I'd like to string it out as long as I can. Of course it wouldn't be that big a deal to run over there and grab another. Unloading the truck was a pain but not when one compares it to the amount of work that goes into cutting, splitting and stacking an equivalent amount of wood. Really, it was only a pain because it was so cold outside and the threat of moisture meant I had to get the whole thing unloaded before the sun went down.



Let us know how it goes Parallax.  Hopefully you'll get some nice long burns now!


----------



## Highbeam

Parallax said:


> Picked up a pallet of Homefire logs today, direct from the manufacturer. Actually, they're rejects and they come in a big box strapped to a pallet. The cost was $150. In the summer, the same box is $100. The weight pushed by old Nissan pickup down almost onto its axle but we (the box and I) managed to get home.
> 
> Now I'm burning those little sons of a gun and I must say I'm impressed. The temperature outside tonight dropped to 16 degrees. That's about as cold as I've ever seen it here in Bellingham. Yet the stove is pounding out heat. It's a big house and I wouldn't say it's toasty. But it's alright. Certainly much better than when we were running full loads of Doug fir in the 22% range. These "logs" are burning low and strong over many hours. I didn't load that many into the box since I'd never run them before and had heard they might expand. Started off with two together with the wood that was already burning. Then I added some broken pieces a few hours later. Finally, before bed, threw in another two logs. Now it's after 5 am and it's still pumping away.
> 
> It's going to take time to figure out the optimal load (unless someone whose used these things can give me pointers). I can see how a big load could potentially overdo it. Also, even a full pallet of these little suckers isn't going to last forever. I'd like to string it out as long as I can. Of course it wouldn't be that big a deal to run over there and grab another. Unloading the truck was a pain but not when one compares it to the amount of work that goes into cutting, splitting and stacking an equivalent amount of wood. Really, it was only a pain because it was so cold outside and the threat of moisture meant I had to get the whole thing unloaded before the sun went down.



I've seen the ad for those on cl. The photo showed a box of broken up logs, aka shorts. Good price though. They should burn like niels.


----------



## Parallax

Thanks fellas. At this point, I figured I'd save the cord wood until it's good and dry. If there's a reason to mix the two, let me know. The pressed logs are firing up nicely when the sit on a hot coal bed, just the same as before. Maybe even faster. They are putting out way more heat. The thing I don't know is how long the pallet will last. By measure, it was about half a cord (4 X 4 X 4). But the pressed logs were packed much tighter than cord wood and they pack a lot of energy per pound.

The biggest difference I've noticed so far is it was much less fun handing the stuff. There's something about working with real wood that's rewarding. Unloading the pickup last night was a chore; something I've not experienced until now in my short time with this new way of life.


----------



## Parallax

jeff_t said:


> You should have no problem filling it up, especially if you can pack them tightly. Your stove will be able to control it just fine.
> 
> This is 126 pounds of Eco-Bricks in my stove.
> 
> View attachment 146182



Is there an advantage to loading the stove so much? It doesn't need that many to make a good strong fire. Which way is likely to be most efficient? I'd like to get these things to last as long as possible.


----------



## Hiram Maxim

Dieselhead said:


> What was your issue Hiram?


It ended up be the CAT.


----------



## jeff_t

Parallax said:


> Is there an advantage to loading the stove so much? It doesn't need that many to make a good strong fire. Which way is likely to be most efficient? I'd like to get these things to last as long as possible.



Absolutely none, just goofing around. Do what you need to stay warm. Should prolly build up to it, but your stove should have no trouble keeping a sizeable load of bricks in control.


----------



## Poindexter

parallax, there was an article in my local paper in the last couple weeks where the mfr of my local bio-logs was quoted as saying mixing part bio-logs with part wet/moist wood can reduce emissions "up to 70%", and mixing bio-logs with dry wood can reduce emissions "up to 40%".

I dunno.  A bunch of meetings this week going on between the state DEC and the borough (like a county) air quality committee.  I am reliably informed BKVP is in town to go to all these meetings too.  If the borough and the state don't come up with an acceptable plan to improve our local air quality by Dec 31 the federal level EPA is going to tell us what the new plan is.

Try filling your stove with 22% fir with two bio-logs worth at the bottom of the firebox, check your stack, maybe try it with 1 or 3 biologs and see what it takes.  I got a ton of them free this winter and can't see at the stack that my Ashford is burning any cleaner with them, but my wood pretty much meters 12-16% MC.  If you can make it work and get some more bio-logs you can get cracking on drying next winter's wood.


----------



## tarzan

Loaded the Princess 25 hours ago as I type this with a mix of Locust and Beech. Cat probe thermometer setting at 10 o'clock and it looks like there's an easy three hours left in it.

Outside temps hit 55*F today so fans off, windows open and 83*F in the stove room. Yell, I should have paid more attention to the forecast before loading it last night. Still forgeting what this thing is capable of in shoulder season weather!

BTW, I wish I would have tried Beech years ago. I doubt there's much locally grown wood I haven't thrown through a stove door at one time or another. That smooth, greenish gray, slick bark just makes it look soft and juicy I suppose. Guess you can't judge a book by its cover.


----------



## Rossco

No let up today. Back to -23C and its frikin freeeezing. Went to -32C last night. 

Trying to maintain 21C in here. Just about to do a re-load in 15-20mins. 

On the plus side I knocked the ice sickles off of the chimney cap.


----------



## Parallax

I've got icicles on my chimney too. Was really surprised since there's been no rain recently. Is this moisture from the wood?


----------



## Rossco

Parallax said:


> I've got icicles on my chimney too. Was really surprised since there's been no rain recently. Is this moisture from the wood?



Iam not sure if its from the wood. It MC'ed good to go the last split I checked.

We had an 'Extreme weather' warning issued two days ago, I think the snow was blasted into the chimney. It was so voracious the snow has been driven into my wood pile.

Around 30" fell over night with 50-70mph gusts. Temps around -28C with a -37C wind chill. Last night it was -32C  air temps.

Lovely.

EDIT: I have a steady stream of condensate coming from the chimney. Its so frikin cold here I have ice on one exposed basement wall.


----------



## weatherguy

Parallax said:


> Picked up a pallet of Homefire logs today, direct from the manufacturer. Actually, they're rejects and they come in a big box strapped to a pallet. The cost was $150. In the summer, the same box is $100. The weight pushed by old Nissan pickup down almost onto its axle but we (the box and I) managed to get home.
> 
> Now I'm burning those little sons of a gun and I must say I'm impressed. The temperature outside tonight dropped to 16 degrees. That's about as cold as I've ever seen it here in Bellingham. Yet the stove is pounding out heat. It's a big house and I wouldn't say it's toasty. But it's alright. Certainly much better than when we were running full loads of Doug fir in the 22% range. These "logs" are burning low and strong over many hours. I didn't load that many into the box since I'd never run them before and had heard they might expand. Started off with two together with the wood that was already burning. Then I added some broken pieces a few hours later. Finally, before bed, threw in another two logs. Now it's after 5 am and it's still pumping away.
> 
> It's going to take time to figure out the optimal load (unless someone whose used these things can give me pointers). I can see how a big load could potentially overdo it. Also, even a full pallet of these little suckers isn't going to last forever. I'd like to string it out as long as I can. Of course it wouldn't be that big a deal to run over there and grab another. Unloading the truck was a pain but not when one compares it to the amount of work that goes into cutting, splitting and stacking an equivalent amount of wood. Really, it was only a pain because it was so cold outside and the threat of moisture meant I had to get the whole thing unloaded before the sun went down.


For $150 (and $100 in summer) I'd load my garage with those logs. I used to put 3 on the bottom and the rest of the load was wood, used to get real hot and lasted a long time.


----------



## Stump shot

Rossco said:


> Iam not sure if its from the wood. It MC'ed good to go the last split I checked.
> 
> We had an 'Extreme weather' warning issued two days ago, I think the snow was blasted into the chimney. It was so voracious the snow has been driven into my wood pile.
> 
> Around 30" fell over night with 50-70mph gusts. Temps around -28C with a -37C wind chill. Last night it was -32C  air temps.
> 
> Lovely.
> 
> EDIT: I have a steady stream of condensate coming from the chimney. Its so frikin cold here I have ice on one exposed basement wall.



Mine is also forming icicle on the cap. I believe it is normal when the temps are this cold. Really not a back side effect of an efficient stove. It's -13F here tonight but no wind so that is a plus. Stay warm!


----------



## Rossco

Stump shot said:


> Mine is also forming icicle on the cap. I believe it is normal when the temps are this cold. Really not a back side effect of an efficient stove. It's -13F here tonight but no wind so that is a plus. Stay warm!



Pretty much a carbon copy of the weather here at the moment. No wind.

I did knock the main ice sickle off. Don't want it to grow so much it pulls the cap off. The roof ain't no place for man nor beast at the moment.

Trying to stay warm and so far so good with the forced air being used during baby bath time etc.


----------



## BrotherBart

I get'em in January and February for two grand less than a Blaze King.


----------



## Grisu

Parallax said:


> I've got icicles on my chimney too. Was really surprised since there's been no rain recently. Is this moisture from the wood?



20% moisture means burn 5 lb wood and about 1 lb of water. Plus, any combustion process generates CO2 and water. (What you see from the tailpipe of cars in the winter is mostly steam.) Push both together through a flue and you get icicles.


----------



## Rossco

Grisu said:


> 20% moisture means burn 5 lb wood and about 1 lb of water. Plus, any combustion process generates CO2 and water. (What you see from the tailpipe of cars in the winter is mostly steam.) Push both together through a flue and you get icicles.



Yeah for sure but I've only just seen them form after the storm. The largest looked to be near 2'. That's the one I was after and it's gone.


----------



## Seanm

Rossco said:


> Yeah for sure but I've only just seen them form after the storm. The largest looked to be near 2'. That's the one I was after and it's gone.


I thought it was odd seeing them on my chimney as well since this is something new for me. Ive seen them often on the blaze king across the street but not on mine that I can recall.


----------



## Rossco

Seanm said:


> I thought it was odd seeing them on my chimney as well since this is something new for me. Ive seen them often on the blaze king across the street but not on mine that I can recall.



Yeah that storm was blowing real hard. 

I ran the stove hard yesterday to try and burn them off with no luck. In the end, 4 chimney sweep rods done the trick.


----------



## BrotherBart

Why worry about it? It ain't stuff in the pipe. And icicle fires are kinda rare.


----------



## rdust

The BK manual says you'll get icicles when it's cold and to burn the stove hot to burn them off.  Nothing to worry about.........


----------



## Highbeam

BrotherBart said:


> Why worry about it? It ain't stuff in the pipe. And icicle fires are kinda rare.


 
Do you think it would be a problem if they fell off and speared your roof or flashing cone? Maybe slid down the roof and mashed a gutter. Or since they are way up on top they will catch wind and blow the whole stack over? I've only had them form when we have had major freezing rain. Never a true creosicle.


----------



## BrotherBart

All of those airplanes flying over concern me more than icicles.


----------



## Rossco

Highbeam said:


> Do you think it would be a problem if they fell off and speared your roof or flashing cone? Maybe slid down the roof and mashed a gutter. Or since they are way up on top they will catch wind and blow the whole stack over? I've only had them form when we have had major freezing rain. Never a true creosicle.



Yeah the storm included a round of freezing rain. 

BrotherBart: my main concern was the size of the ice sickle. I don't want the weight on one side to push/pull anything it shouldn't.


----------



## Poindexter

Rossco said:


> Around 30" fell over night with 50-70mph gusts. Temps around -28C with a -37C wind chill. Last night it was -32C  air temps.


 
Minus 30 C.  In November.  You seem to have that "Keep Calm and Carry On" thing going on.


----------



## Rossco

Poindexter said:


> Minus 30 C.  In November.  You seem to have that "Keep Calm and Carry On" thing going on.



The other day set a new November record for low temps.

I was just saying to the wife yesterday.



> Yeah it's cold, imagine if we lived up north or in Alaska



The weather is warming up to a mild -15 to -20C.

How are you guys doing?


----------



## Highbeam

9 North Idaho Energy logs at one time.... gets a little crazy. Stat slammed shut kept her down to 600. Good thing we are in a cold snap and could use the heat.


----------



## Parallax

Still learning how to burn the Home Fire logs. They burn so differently than cord wood. Longer and slower. They last a long time but it's hard to get the house above 60 degrees even with the stove set to 3.5 with a bunch of logs in the box.


----------



## Rich2343

rdust said:


> The BK manual says you'll get icicles when it's cold and to burn the stove hot to burn them off.  Nothing to worry about.........


I did not see that in the manual. I'm wondering what else I'm missing


----------



## Highbeam

Yay, 1000 posts to this thread!





Parallax said:


> Still learning how to burn the Home Fire logs. They burn so differently than cord wood. Longer and slower. They last a long time but it's hard to get the house above 60 degrees even with the stove set to 3.5 with a bunch of logs in the box.


 
I am seeing that too. A slow start, then a lot of heat near the beginning, and then a long and cool cruise. Not even the thermostat on our BKs can overcome a wood product that gives up most of its energy all at once.


----------



## Rich2343

Highbeam said:


> Yay, 1000 posts to this thread!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am seeing that too. A slow start, then a lot of heat near the beginning, and then a long and cool cruise. Not even the thermostat on our BKs can overcome a wood product that gives up most of its energy all at once.


My chimney is pouring out the blue smoke. My stove is 500* . With these sawdust bricks . The cat is alive and well (glowing).


----------



## rdust

Rich2343 said:


> I did not see that in the manual. I'm wondering what else I'm missing



Page 25 of the online manual. 
 "ICE - FORMATION AND PREVENTION
Most of what you see coming from the chimney of a properly operating catalytic stove is water vapor. In
extremely cold weather - and with some exterior chimneys - this vapor may freeze in the chimney, to the point of
actually blocking the chimney and extinguishing the fi re. In such weather, occasionally burn the stove for 4 or 5
minutes with the bypass open and the thermostat set at maximum to melt any possible ice buildup. "


----------



## Rich2343

rdust said:


> Page 25 of the online manual.
> "ICE - FORMATION AND PREVENTION
> Most of what you see coming from the chimney of a properly operating catalytic stove is water vapor. In
> extremely cold weather - and with some exterior chimneys - this vapor may freeze in the chimney, to the point of
> actually blocking the chimney and extinguishing the fi re. In such weather, occasionally burn the stove for 4 or 5
> minutes with the bypass open and the thermostat set at maximum to melt any possible ice buildup. "


Thank you Rdust. I will have to check out the online manual.as to see what else im missing. A little snow and ice on my end however more insulation running stove more efficiently this will more than likely become an issue.


----------



## kennyp2339

My princess might be ready for pick up as early as this Thursday.. Can't wait I got the old country hearth 2500 cranking but I'm filling the fire box 4 x a day.. I really hope I get good heat out of the princess and reduce my wood consumption.


----------



## Highbeam

Rich2343 said:


> My chimney is pouring out the blue smoke. My stove is 500* . With these sawdust bricks . The cat is alive and well (glowing).


 
My princess ultra smoked excessively with the biolog products too. Despite fully warmed up and very active or glowing cat. They burned much cleaner in my other non-cat stove. Last night I had to give up on the logs and put real firewood in the firebox on top of the leftovers. The partially burned biologs weren't making enough heat. The BK seems to love real, actual, firewood. Back to a light and intermittent smoke along with good heat.


----------



## tarzan

kennyp2339 said:


> My princess might be ready for pick up as early as this Thursday.. Can't wait I got the old country hearth 2500 cranking but I'm filling the fire box 4 x a day.. I really hope I get good heat out of the princess and reduce my wood consumption.



Your days of constantly tending the stove will soon be over.


----------



## Poindexter

Lovely evening yesterday with BKVP, I enjoyed my carbonated beverage very much.  Thanks Chris.

Nothing really earth shattering was revealed in person.  Burn dry wood; no, no drier than that. 

I've gotten started splitting my wood for next winter already, going smaller.  So far anything in my stack with bark on it, the last molecule of of cellulose to dry out is less than 1" from air.  Mostly I have birch with two inches of bark on the base of the triangle and sides 4-6" long.  I don't want to see any "20" anything on my MM next fall, I want 16% and under everywhere I look.  I do have some gnarly knotty pieces that will get two summers in the sun before I stick my MM into them.

I did learn a vendor here in Fairbanks brought in a container load of actual NIELs from northern Idaho.  $650/ ton local, more expensive BTU for BTU than heating oil.  I am not buying a ton of them at that price, but if I can talk the vendor out of 20-50# I'll give them a shot to see what all the fuss is about.

Been cold enough here long enough that my wood for next year splits real easy, but it hasn't been cold enough long enough for the bark to break hardly at all.  Complete pain in the neck. I'll get back to the wood pile when its been down below -20dF for a while.

The Ashford is running with consistency and predictability bordering on boring. I have found in colder weather I can rake the coals forward and burn them down a bit before reloading the stove without the house cooling off too much.

I did dig up an old thread that explains a thing.  If you go looking for threads started by BKVP you'll find his introduction thread that he started in 2011.  Somewhere in there he mentions at the BK lab they find most of the water in the cordwood load boils out in the first hour of the burn.  Once you get that water, and most of the volatiles with it burnt off, your stove will be coasting on charcoal and very low emissions whether or not the cat is hot enough to be active.  I am finding if I shut the Tstat down early, less than an hour into the burn, then several hours later when I am ready to burn the coals down the splits on the floor of the stove in the corners still have some volatiles in them and and I can get quite a bit of heat out of them before I reload.

I think really I could get away with having a bigger stove in my house, but burning down the coals while I am home in the evening to see pretty flame instead of grey charcoal is kind of a good thing.


----------



## BKVP

Poindexter and Mrs Poindexter were most gracious and left me all the hot wings! I enjoy meeting BK owners.  Stay tuned...my next stop (and your free spirits) may be coming to a town near you.  Poindexters' go eat those Fuji apples!


quote="Poindexter, post: 1829867, member: 36095"]Lovely evening yesterday with BKVP, I enjoyed my carbonated beverage very much.  Thanks Chris.

Nothing really earth shattering was revealed in person.  Burn dry wood; no, no drier than that.

I've gotten started splitting my wood for next winter already, going smaller.  So far anything in my stack with bark on it, the last molecule of of cellulose to dry out is less than 1" from air.  Mostly I have birch with two inches of bark on the base of the triangle and sides 4-6" long.  I don't want to see any "20" anything on my MM next fall, I want 16% and under everywhere I look.  I do have some gnarly knotty pieces that will get two summers in the sun before I stick my MM into them.

I did learn a vendor here in Fairbanks brought in a container load of actual NIELs from northern Idaho.  $650/ ton local, more expensive BTU for BTU than heating oil.  I am not buying a ton of them at that price, but if I can talk the vendor out of 20-50# I'll give them a shot to see what all the fuss is about.

Been cold enough here long enough that my wood for next year splits real easy, but it hasn't been cold enough long enough for the bark to break hardly at all.  Complete pain in the neck. I'll get back to the wood pile when its been down below -20dF for a while.

The Ashford is running with consistency and predictability bordering on boring. I have found in colder weather I can rake the coals forward and burn them down a bit before reloading the stove without the house cooling off too much.

I did dig up an old thread that explains a thing.  If you go looking for threads started by BKVP you'll find his introduction thread that he started in 2011.  Somewhere in there he mentions at the BK lab they find most of the water in the cordwood load boils out in the first hour of the burn.  Once you get that water, and most of the volatiles with it burnt off, your stove will be coasting on charcoal and very low emissions whether or not the cat is hot enough to be active.  I am finding if I shut the Tstat down early, less than an hour into the burn, then several hours later when I am ready to burn the coals down the splits on the floor of the stove in the corners still have some volatiles in them and and I can get quite a bit of heat out of them before I reload.

I think really I could get away with having a bigger stove in my house, but burning down the coals while I am home in the evening to see pretty flame instead of grey charcoal is kind of a good thing.[/quote]


----------



## tarzan

Weird things happening. Loaded the Princess with a mix of Beech and Locust yesterday morning at 11am. Went through the usual procedure with stove thermostat ending up at 1.5 as usual. Came back in at 1pm and my wife had the stove fans running. She said temps got to 650*F and the cat probe thermo was pegged.

At this time, I shut the thermostat completely and shortly there after, shut off the fans. Around 3pm stove top temp and cat probe thermometer had crept back up so the fan came back on until stove top was at 500 and probe was around 2o'clock.

After that, thermostat still at 0", temps steadied out at 600*F and cat probe sat around 2 to 3o'clock until bedtime around 11pm.

Now it is 6:30 am, thermostat still at "0" and of course has not opened. Stove top is at 300*F and cat probe at 10 o'clock. There's a good amount of wood left in the stove and I expect an easy 24 hour or more burn.

Ok, so the problem "I theorize" was the weather. Of'course, number one is it was 40 to 45*F outside yesterday through this morning so I did not need "that" much heat. 85 in the stove room with windows and doors open.

Now, here's what I "think" could have contributed to my, basicly loss of control over the stove. Besides great burning wood, a high pressure system with rain and temps in the 40's. This kind of weather made running my old tube stove nearly impossible. Never could get it up and running right, the draft just wasn't there.

On this stove however, I think the high pressure system acted more like a pipe damper, holding the heat in the stove. Not sure but I do know the cat was doing the majority of the work as it was bright red and very active while the wood load appearance changed very slowly.

Also could be the door gasket. I will check it once stove cools but it "should" be ok as I have adjusted it twice.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Weird things happening. Loaded the Princess with a mix of Beech and Locust yesterday morning at 11am. Went through the usual procedure with stove thermostat ending up at 1.5 as usual. Came back in at 1pm and my wife had the stove fans running. She said temps got to 650*F and the cat probe thermo was pegged.
> 
> At this time, I shut the thermostat completely and shortly there after, shut off the fans. Around 3pm stove top temp and cat probe thermometer had crept back up so the fan came back on until stove top was at 500 and probe was around 2o'clock.
> 
> After that, thermostat still at 0", temps steadied out at 600*F and cat probe sat around 2 to 3o'clock until bedtime around 11pm.
> 
> Now it is 6:30 am, thermostat still at "0" and of course has not opened. Stove top is at 300*F and cat probe at 10 o'clock. There's a good amount of wood left in the stove and I expect an easy 24 hour or more burn.
> 
> Ok, so the problem "I theorize" was the weather. Of'course, number one is it was 40 to 45*F outside yesterday through this morning so I did not need "that" much heat. 85 in the stove room with windows and doors open.
> 
> Now, here's what I "think" could have contributed to my, basicly loss of control over the stove. Besides great burning wood, a high pressure system with rain and temps in the 40's. This kind of weather made running my old tube stove nearly impossible. Never could get it up and running right, the draft just wasn't there.
> 
> On this stove however, I think the high pressure system acted more like a pipe damper, holding the heat in the stove. Not sure but I do know the cat was doing the majority of the work as it was bright red and very active while the wood load appearance changed very slowly.
> 
> Also could be the door gasket. I will check it once stove cools but it "should" be ok as I have adjusted it twice.


 
Lots of little pieces? Or large chunks of that high btu wood? I've only had that runaway experience with biologs. The cat apparently doesn't need much oxygen to eat the smoke so the smoke gets the cat hot which bakes more smoke out of the wood which feeds the cat into this runaway.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> Lots of little pieces? Or large chunks of that high btu wood? I've only had that runaway experience with biologs. The cat apparently doesn't need much oxygen to eat the smoke so the smoke gets the cat hot which bakes more smoke out of the wood which feeds the cat into this runaway.



Well, the cat probe thermometer fell out of active after 24 1/2 hours. Did the dollar bill test and door gasket passed all the way around.

The wood I am using is large 6" splits of Beech and round Locust for the most part.

In some of my above posts I eluded to how well this stuff was burning but this was, I think, the second load I have ran without the blower running. I am going to bypass the rest of this wood for now and save it for colder weather when I will be running with the blower on.

I am tempted to buy another moisture meter out of curiousity cause this wood was all from standing dead and hasn't been split long. The Locust not split at all.


----------



## claybe

tarzan said:


> Weird things happening. Loaded the Princess with a mix of Beech and Locust yesterday morning at 11am. Went through the usual procedure with stove thermostat ending up at 1.5 as usual. Came back in at 1pm and my wife had the stove fans running. She said temps got to 650*F and the cat probe thermo was pegged.
> 
> At this time, I shut the thermostat completely and shortly there after, shut off the fans. Around 3pm stove top temp and cat probe thermometer had crept back up so the fan came back on until stove top was at 500 and probe was around 2o'clock.
> 
> After that, thermostat still at 0", temps steadied out at 600*F and cat probe sat around 2 to 3o'clock until bedtime around 11pm.
> 
> Now it is 6:30 am, thermostat still at "0" and of course has not opened. Stove top is at 300*F and cat probe at 10 o'clock. There's a good amount of wood left in the stove and I expect an easy 24 hour or more burn.
> 
> Ok, so the problem "I theorize" was the weather. Of'course, number one is it was 40 to 45*F outside yesterday through this morning so I did not need "that" much heat. 85 in the stove room with windows and doors open.
> 
> Now, here's what I "think" could have contributed to my, basicly loss of control over the stove. Besides great burning wood, a high pressure system with rain and temps in the 40's. This kind of weather made running my old tube stove nearly impossible. Never could get it up and running right, the draft just wasn't there.
> 
> On this stove however, I think the high pressure system acted more like a pipe damper, holding the heat in the stove. Not sure but I do know the cat was doing the majority of the work as it was bright red and very active while the wood load appearance changed very slowly.
> 
> Also could be the door gasket. I will check it once stove cools but it "should" be ok as I have adjusted it twice.


Tarzan, have you had the cover off and watched the tstat to make sure it is closing and is not one of the mysterious wound backwards tstat?  Just came to mind when I read this.


----------



## tarzan

claybe said:


> Tarzan, have you had the cover off and watched the tstat to make sure it is closing and is not one of the mysterious wound backwards tstat?  Just came to mind when I read this.



Yes, it is closing.

Got the stove settled in now at 450*F after 3 hours running with T-stat shut. It has been at 450*F for about an hour and a half now with cat probe pointed at the I in active with no change.

Two things are different than last night. First is it's a little cooler outside at around 36*F and it finally quit raining. Second is something that may seem counter intuitive but I let this load burn in on 3 for about 20 minutes. Maybe this burned more of the gases off before shutting it down.

Either way, after I use up what I have brought in the house I am going to save the rest of this particular wood for colder weather.


----------



## Quentin2

I had an interesting super hot burn last night.   I got into some small splits of very dry cottonwood in my stack and loaded up a warm stove with it.  Charred it on high for ten minutes then turned it down to 1.5 ish like I would normally do at these mild temps (20-30f).  

The house was already warm 80 down and 75 up.  2 hours later went to check on stove before bed and instantly felt a blast of heat as I was going down to stove room.  90 deg in stove room and lively active flames.  Wtf!  I turned it down a quarter click and instantly flames start receding I turned the blowers off.  I think the top was 600, cat was real high but too dark to see.

I have a good routine with the larger splits of spruce and full rounds that I normally burn so def. wasn't expecting that.  Another factor I think might of been at play is the fresh 4 or 5 inches of snow on my roof the same day increasing the insulation on an already well insulated new construction.  Today I get home it's 30 outside I got 400 top, cat in the middle. 84 down and 79 upstairs.  I just turned the blowers off again and told my wife to keep them off.  

Fyi, the wife put a few splits in today at 3:30 on not much coals, about 16 hours which I was surprised to hear.  It's definitely too hot but I think I can cool off by not using fans.  I can't get myself to open windows! I will open door to garage though to cool off stove room, I figure that keeps the garage furnace from kicking on.

Burn on


----------



## kennyp2339

Well tomorrow is D-day... New princess is ready to be picked up, I'm giving the old stove her last couple loads.. Kinda feel bad but I know this is for the better... Lol here's to the old 2500 country hearth (3rd season)
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
thank you old girl for keeping me warm, although you developed cracks in you from poor Chinese manufacturing and your new factory listed spec of a 5/8 gasket didnt fit ( to small ) oh and your secondary burn tube mounts went bad and fell apart thank you for keeping me warm on the coldest polar vortex days last year , you will go to semi retirement in my buddies garage and keep us warm on the coldest of Sundays when we all watch the greatful giants lose,  and the jets lose, and all the teams we don't like win against us.


----------



## Rickb

kennyp2339 said:


> Well tomorrow is D-day... New princess is ready to be picked up, I'm giving the old stove her last couple loads.. Kinda feel bad but I know this is for the better... Lol here's to the old 2500 country hearth (3rd season)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 146601
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thank you old girl for keeping me warm, although you developed cracks in you from poor Chinese manufacturing and your new factory listed spec of a 5/8 gasket didnt fit ( to small ) oh and your secondary burn tube mounts went bad and fell apart thank you for keeping me warm on the coldest polar vortex days last year , you will go to semi retirement in my buddies garage and keep us warm on the coldest of Sundays when we all watch the greatful giants lose,  and the jets lose, and all the teams we don't like win against us.



Keep the faith!  If they play the rams you might win!


----------



## kennyp2339

I don't know about that.. Unless there hands are still up


----------



## Rickb

kennyp2339 said:


> I don't know about that.. Unless there hands are still up



LMAO!  Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## tarzan

I'll have a drink to that, from the state that gave you Geno!


----------



## Rossco

Well, off for another two nights in paradise.

How she looks.





Stay warm.


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> Well, off for another two nights in paradise.
> 
> How she looks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay warm.



Wow, those are small splits. Like kindling.


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> Wow, those are small splits. Like kindling.


Hopefully that's what my stove looks like tomorrow, btw the splits look like mine ... Lol normal east coast style


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## Rossco

Highbeam said:


> Wow, those are small splits. Like kindling.



Yeah I buy pallets of chop-sticks and throw them in there .



Good luck Kenny


----------



## turbojoe

Anyone notice a change in your t stat after hooking up an OAK. 
Ran my stove a few weeks without one. Was just getting used to where it needed to be set to get X temp output. 
Installed OAK yesterday, did my usual startup, 3.5 to char, then down to 2 for a bit the 1.5/1.75. Now on 2 i can get to 600 ST and the flap never seems to close all the way. On 1.5 today i am seeing 500+ before it starts to close. I ended up running it on 1
i did notice the OAK pipe is very cold, as expected... could the cold air coming in cool down the stat housing enough for this ??
House didn't need an OAK. Installed to meet code. Sorry for such a long post.


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## Stump shot

I would agree with the cold air cooling down the stat. How long is the OAK run inside the house?


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## turbojoe

Stump shot said:


> I would agree with the cold air cooling down the stat. How long is the OAK run inside the house?


About 3 ft.


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## Rickb

Mine seems to run like this.  Its kinda nice I leave my t-stat down as low as it goes and when its warmer outside the stove runs cooler and when its cold out it runs a little hotter.  Keeps my basement at 75F no mater the outside temps.


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## kennyp2339

Got the princess in and loving it, it's been running since lastnight and getting established with heat... The only grip I have is I should have ordered the fan kit, I will order one on Monday


----------



## rdust

kennyp2339 said:


> Got the princess in and loving it, it's been running since lastnight and getting established with heat... The only grip I have is I should have ordered the fan kit, I will order one on Monday



Basement installs are tough, I hope it works ok for you.  A fan kit is definitely a requirement on any steel stove of mine.


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## kennyp2339

It's 32 deg here, up stairs has been and  is holding steady at 70 deg, if I get the fan kit I'm certain that I can keep the house warmer on the coldest of days, I can't believe how much less wood I'm burning I've read it here online but I still can't believe it's really happening, this stove is awesome


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## kennyp2339

So I'm now back on the lap top (easier to type on) I cant believe this stove, I'm a true BK believer, to temporally mitigate my need of a blower I set up a box fan and have it blowing at the stove, it is only a temporary solution but it is working out so far with my setup, my temps upstairs went from 68 to 74 with an outside temp of 35. I know that its kind of warm out but I'm banking on the steady long heat flow coming out the stove to maintain these upstairs temps when the outside temp falls, I'll be happy with 68 upstairs and 20 deg outside until I get the blower kit.  My girlfriend says I'm driving her nuts with this new stove because I keep running back and forth to it just to monitor it, she says let it be, it will take care of itself, but I cant help myself at this point lol. My burn times so far are amazing compared to the old stove, I'm really proud of this purchase. Everything on the stove is operating normally, I'm thinking my sweet spot is right at setting 2, but its not really not cold out yet so that could change, my stove probe is keeping the needle in the higher active range (2 oclock) but I think its running warm because the CAT is new and is really eating the smoke and producing the heat. I'm running a little test on wood usage, I have a 5x6 wood rack in the garage, I filled it to the top last Tuesday before the noreaster and I got 9 days out of it with the old stove running 24/7, I filled it back up last night before I fired the new princess so I'm curious to see how long it lasts, my gut is saying atleast 2 full weeks, but I will report on it when its empty. At the end of the day I feel very confident in the purchase of this princess.


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## tarzan

Your girlfriend said "let it be, it will take care of itself" sounds like she has had a BK before! Lol

I'm not sure why, or if anyone else here had a similar experience but mine just seemed to get a little better every day for the first month. As in burn times and heat at a lower setting.


----------



## Poindexter

kennyp, I find the sweet spot on my thermostat varies with outdoor temps...


----------



## kennyp2339

Here are some pics of the install, I'm the skinnier guy lol, but I needed big Brian to help love the stove around, of course the bear was more than happy to lend a hand


----------



## claybe

kennyp2339 said:


> So I'm now back on the lap top (easier to type on) I cant believe this stove, I'm a true BK believer, to temporally mitigate my need of a blower I set up a box fan and have it blowing at the stove, it is only a temporary solution but it is working out so far with my setup, my temps upstairs went from 68 to 74 with an outside temp of 35. I know that its kind of warm out but I'm banking on the steady long heat flow coming out the stove to maintain these upstairs temps when the outside temp falls, I'll be happy with 68 upstairs and 20 deg outside until I get the blower kit.  My girlfriend says I'm driving her nuts with this new stove because I keep running back and forth to it just to monitor it, she says let it be, it will take care of itself, but I cant help myself at this point lol. My burn times so far are amazing compared to the old stove, I'm really proud of this purchase. Everything on the stove is operating normally, I'm thinking my sweet spot is right at setting 2, but its not really not cold out yet so that could change, my stove probe is keeping the needle in the higher active range (2 oclock) but I think its running warm because the CAT is new and is really eating the smoke and producing the heat. I'm running a little test on wood usage, I have a 5x6 wood rack in the garage, I filled it to the top last Tuesday before the noreaster and I got 9 days out of it with the old stove running 24/7, I filled it back up last night before I fired the new princess so I'm curious to see how long it lasts, my gut is saying atleast 2 full weeks, but I will report on it when its empty. At the end of the day I feel very confident in the purchase of this princess.


I have the princess insert and the dots and numbers are all different from everyone else's. I wish everything was the same so I could understand what you free standers are talking about!!


----------



## tarzan

claybe said:


> I have the princess insert and the dots and numbers are all different from everyone else's. I wish everything was the same so I could understand what you free standers are talking about!!



The free standers, as far as I know, are all numbered 1 to 3 with "normal" being from about 1.6 to 2.4. It is possible however to turn the knob counter clockwise to well under where 0 would be, if it had one, and up to 3.5

Then there's the newer model stoves that I have heard has a slightly different thermostat. Add to that the fact that everyone's draft is different and changes according to the weather and how hot the stove runs then you can see how thermostat setting becomes a loose point of reference anyhow.


----------



## Calentarse

Here's my 2014 Ashford 30 thermostat just how it came from factory... sorry couldn't get tablet to focus as I had to be so close.


----------



## BrotherBart

Highbeam said:


> Do you think it would be a problem if they fell off and speared your roof or flashing cone? Maybe slid down the roof and mashed a gutter. Or since they are way up on top they will catch wind and blow the whole stack over? I've only had them form when we have had major freezing rain. Never a true creosicle.



Guy must have a Blaze King.


----------



## Highbeam

kennyp2339 said:


> Here are some pics of the install, I'm the skinnier guy lol, but I needed big Brian to help love the stove around, of course the bear was more than happy to lend a hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 146781
> View attachment 146782
> View attachment 146783
> View attachment 146784



Key damper on single wall?

Oh and 35 is NOT too warm to burn. I just started a fire, it's 57 out but only 64 inside the house. Perfect time for a noncat style pulse fire.


----------



## kennyp2339

Highbeam said:


> Key damper on single wall?
> 
> Oh and 35 is NOT too warm to burn. I just started a fire, it's 57 out but only 64 inside the house. Perfect time for a noncat style pulse fire.


Yes, it was part of my old setup, I didn't order the double wall pipe yet and I think its not going to kill the stove using only 5ft of single wall pipe, the rest of the chimney is triple wall dura vent that is straight up and on the inside of the house *to stay warmer. I just ordered the fan kit  online $251.00, I have princess parlor, my question is would a convection deck fit on this thing, and is it worth it?


----------



## R'Lee

Don't know if it will fit but, yes; the convection deck IS worth it (*at my place).


----------



## rdust

kennyp2339 said:


> Yes, it was part of my old setup, I didn't order the double wall pipe yet and I think its not going to kill the stove using only 5ft of single wall pipe, the rest of the chimney is triple wall dura vent that is straight up and on the inside of the house *to stay warmer. I just ordered the fan kit  online $251.00, I have princess parlor, my question is would a convection deck fit on this thing, and is it worth it?



When I got my princess(ultra) I had fans but not the deck.  I ordered the deck since I feel it finishes the look a little.  I've burned it with and without the deck and can't say if it helps one way or the other.  To me it was worth the 100 bucks or whatever it was.


----------



## kennyp2339

Thank you for the replies, I think I'll wait for the blower to come in and then decide if the deck is needed, I'm really trying to get use to this stove, there is nothing for me to due, I kinda like loading my stove and poking the stuff around, and with this one I cant really do anything, it really is the worlds most boring stove, but a top performer.


----------



## R'Lee

The Fan/Blower Kit is essentually a deluxe rear heat shield.  With the convection deck,  it directs the air across the top of the stove and out in front.  Combined, it puts out serious heat very quickly.  We only use it to get the house warm promptly after which we tone it down   You will chew through more wood because it has a cooling effect and the thermostat compensates trying to keep the stove at whatever temp it's generically set for.  In the shoulder season which is still intermittent here in MI, small hot fires with the blower for perhaps an hour max is all we need.  Then we let it smolder & no blower.   We do have one of the ecofans that helps moves the air as well & no AC is required.


----------



## Gareth96

I've been burning pretty much 24/7 since Halloween.. Today I did my first test with the Lowe's moisture meter and opened up my stovepipe for the first time to see what a month plus of shoulder/smolder season has done. Majority of my wood (no idea what kind it is) is at 12-13%, the other major type (I think is maple) is at 18%.  With the inside of the princess being often so black and creosoty from the slow burns (I try to do the daily hot fire thing) I was scared the stovepipe was going to look the same.  Well, with the exception of very little buildup around the 15 degree elbows, there was nothing but a VERY thin layer of soot.. hit the elbows with the sooteater and buttoned it back up... VERY HAPPY CAMPER!


----------



## Rossco

So then. I got me Convection deck. 

The stove has been cooled for 12hrs or so as we've had a warm spell. Cleaned the ash out and pulled the pipes. Lots of build up in the pipes and subsequent chimney mmmm .. Just dusty but very flakey. This is like 2ft above the stove, I cleaned the 45* - 12" - 45* section and its back to shiny stainless. So Iam wondering what kinda build up this was? I didn't take a pic as I look like a chimney sweep ATM. 

ANYHOW, its all cleaned and looking pretty again, Iam currently bringing the unit up to temp then I will snap a pic of the deck. I modified it slightly so as the CAT probe don't hit the lower fin.


----------



## Poindexter

My understanding of chimney sweepings is shiny black is the least desirable stuff, and sheets of shiny black is the worst way to find it.

I bet there is a guide on this site already somewhere, perhaps begreen or grisu has a link to it in their favorites folder.

1620 (base 65) heating degree days for me in calendar November 2014.  My 30 year trailing average for November is 1860 HDD.  Still burning spruce almost exclusively and keeping the house at +80dF.  Loving my Blaze King, I haven't even touched my birch pile yet.

For comparison Minneapolis, MN had 1179 HDD in Nov 2014.  Jan 2014 with the polar vortex going on Minneapolis, MN recorded 1762 HDD.


----------



## Rossco

Yeah I don't understand chimney sweeping very much. The build up looked allot worse than it actually was. When I sent the brush up the chimney I hardly got and debris. Just some real real fine black powder, same with the
Thimble and DWSP. 

I can re-describe the build up as 'Fluffy' if that helps.

EDIT: Poindexter: I have no idea what the rest of your post means ?


----------



## NinjaTech

I decided to get a draft gauge, got a good deal on one and thought why not. Thought I would post a few pictures. Two months burning full time, and that's all the buildup in the pipe I don't think I will even bother sweeping it till next spring. The top of the pipe looks just as clean. I'm VERY happy with this stove. Gotta love catalysts!


----------



## tarzan

Rossco said:


> Yeah I don't understand chimney sweeping very much. The build up looked allot worse than it actually was. When I sent the brush up the chimney I hardly got and debris. Just some real real fine black powder, same with the
> Thimble and DWSP.
> 
> I can re-describe the build up as 'Fluffy' if that helps.
> 
> EDIT: Poindexter: I have no idea what the rest of your post means ?



I had brown to gray looking dust with the tube stove and it is my understanding that this was fine and wouldn't burn. Black and crumbly is supposed to be bad and I wouldn't let it build up but I have known plenty who will let it build to the point they loose draft before cleaning. Black and shiny tar or liquid looking stuff is very bad. I learned my lesson with this stuff during a power outage in Dec. 09 and changed my burning habits drastically after that.


----------



## Poindexter

Rossco said:


> EDIT: Poindexter: I have no idea what the rest of your post means ?


 
HDD or Heating Degree Days is a way to put a number on a how cold it is over time.  There are also CDD, cooling degree days, not a challenge I have to deal with.  HVAC folks when choosing furnace sizes for one thing; also for useful for comparing climates.

We pretty much use +65dF in Fairbanks when talking about HDD, though some systems use +70dF.  You could use any number really, thus the (base65) notation in my occasional posts on the matter.

So imagine your outdoor ambient temperature remains at exactly +65dF all day, 24 hours straight.  On that single day you would accumulate zero HDD.  Imagine your outdoor ambient temperature is +60dF all day and all night for an entire 30 day month.  You would be accumulating 5 HDD each day, that is the furnace would have to raise the temperature inside the house 5 degrees (F), and keep it there all month.  So 5 HDD daily *30 days would be a 150 HDD month.  31* 5 would be a 155 HDD month, and etc.

Thus repeating from above, I had 1620 (base 65) HDD in calendar November 2014.  My trailing 30 year average in Fairbanks is 1860 HDD for November.  In January of 2014 with the polar vortex down to visit, Minneapolis, MN recorded 1762 HDD.  Calendar November 2014 Minneapolis, MN recorded 1179HDD.

Not sure how to convert metric system HDD to antique system HDD.

And I am still burning spruce almost exclusively, not into my birch yet.

I love this stove.

I should add: I got a "free" ton of bio-logs from the borough gov't this fall as part of an air quality initiative.  I am burning them two at a time everytime I load the stove just to get them gone.  I don't mind them as cordwood extenders, but I don't want to try to keep them dry over the summer.  I bet a wet bio-log takes about forever to dry back out.


----------



## Highbeam

Poindexter said:


> I should add: I got a "free" ton of bio-logs from the borough gov't this fall as part of an air quality initiative.  I am burning them two at a time everytime I load the stove just to get them gone.  I don't mind them as cordwood extenders, but I don't want to try to keep them dry over the summer.


 
I've been using them up two at a time also to try and get rid of them. They don't make such a smokey mess out of my chimney when mixed with actual cordwood.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam, did you ever use the bio-logs in your tube stove? If so, how did that compare to burning them in the BK?


Highbeam said:


> I've been using them up two at a time also to try and get rid of them. They don't make such a smokey mess out of my chimney when mixed with actual cordwood.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Highbeam, did you ever use the bio-logs in your tube stove? If so, how did that compare to burning them in the BK?


 
Yes. They burned cleaner in the non-cat. I only run three at a time in the non-cat since you really have very little control over heat output in a noncat but they worked just fine. No stack smoke after full ignition. They did the same slow start smoke thing but then took off and ran clean. A pretty long burn for the volume of biolog. In a non-cat, the biologs offer a reasonable alternative, as they burn similarly to cordwood.


----------



## R'Lee

Metric to antique system HDD (or vice versa); I will presume the same protocol and with your FINAL calculation;  factor in the coefficient for the conversion?
It's not just furnace and AC people using this method;  also those that sell propane and fuel oil as well in their "forecasting models" flagging them on when to order/deliver essential supplies.


----------



## BKVP

NinjaTech said:


> I decided to get a draft gauge, got a good deal on one and thought why not. Thought I would post a few pictures. Two months burning full time, and that's all the buildup in the pipe I don't think I will even bother sweeping it till next spring. The top of the pipe looks just as clean. I'm VERY happy with this stove. Gotta love catalysts!


Ninja Tech...you're hired!  Taking pictures while the lathe is turning, you are a multitasker!


----------



## NinjaTech

BKVP said:


> Ninja Tech...you're hired!  Taking pictures while the lathe is turning, you are a multitasker!



I'll PM you my address so you know where to send the paychecks!


----------



## gregbesia

Yep, PM me your address so I can send OSHA after you


----------



## Rossco

So then, pics. Notice how much wood has 'Gone up in smoke' since last Thursday.





The deck. Doesn't hit my CAT gauge.





So, I have burnt without the deck and noticed the fan's throw the heat real well, installed the deck and wasn't impressed at all. 

Today it's a different story, now the stove is up to temp and the basement is cooking, the fans & deck combine to produce a jet stream of super heated air that can be felt allot further away than before.


----------



## NinjaTech

gregbesia said:


> Yep, PM me your address so I can send OSHA after you



No OSHA in my houses garage! Nothing was actually cutting in the picture anyway, just had the spindle running to get the blur for the picture.


----------



## gregbesia

Nice equipment for a garage. How do you like that Princess ? You know, that insert is on my wish list. Too bad my wife is not too crazy about it.


----------



## Rossco

gregbesia said:


> Nice equipment for a garage. How do you like that Princess ? You know, that insert is on my wish list. Too bad my wife is not too crazy about it.



You talking to me?

If so, the BK is in my Basement.


----------



## gregbesia

Rossco said:


> You talking to me?
> 
> If so, the BK is in my Basement.


No, sorry , I was asking Ninja. Although your set up is very nice, I have a fireplace and am looking at inserts.


----------



## NinjaTech

Love it! I do kind of wish there was a king version of the insert just to get longer burn times, maybe I'm just being to picky about having to load twice a day. I really couldn't be happier though, it's a great heater.


----------



## tarzan

Rossco said:


> So then, pics. Notice how much wood has 'Gone up in smoke' since last Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The deck. Doesn't hit my CAT gauge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I have burnt without the deck and noticed the fan's throw the heat real well, installed the deck and wasn't impressed at all.
> 
> Today it's a different story, now the stove is up to temp and the basement is cooking, the fans & deck combine to produce a jet stream of super heated air that can be felt allot further away than before.



Looks good Rossco!

My old tube stove had a step top (similar to the convection deck) and a 400cfm blower. I could get the stove hot and crank up the rheostat for some quick heat. 

I doubt I would benefit much from a convection deck on the Princess though as I havn't actually needed to even run the blower much witch is a little surprising because my old stove heated the house much better with the blower.

The BK just has more mass and a Wayyy longer burn time.


----------



## Highbeam

Rossco said:


> So then, pics. Notice how much wood has 'Gone up in smoke' since last Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The deck. Doesn't hit my CAT gauge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I have burnt without the deck and noticed the fan's throw the heat real well, installed the deck and wasn't impressed at all.
> 
> Today it's a different story, now the stove is up to temp and the basement is cooking, the fans & deck combine to produce a jet stream of super heated air that can be felt allot further away than before.




So how did you mod the deck to allow the cat meter to work? I had to spin the dial 180.


----------



## claybe

NinjaTech said:


> Love it! I do kind of wish there was a king version of the insert just to get longer burn times, maybe I'm just being to picky about having to load twice a day. I really couldn't be happier though, it's a great heater.


Ninja I totally agree  I love my insert but am contemplating cutting out the fire place to install a King Ultra eventually.  Gregbesia you should definitely get one!  Chris are you listening?!?  Any chance of a king insert in the future???


----------



## BKVP

claybe said:


> Ninja I totally agree  I love my insert but am contemplating cutting out the fire place to install a King Ultra eventually.  Gregbesia you should definitely get one!  Chris are you listening?!?  Any chance of a king insert in the future???



Dude, I'm watching Godfather III!  No King insert this next year...but.......


----------



## Rossco

gregbesia said:


> No, sorry , I was asking Ninja. Although your set up is very nice, I have a fireplace and am looking at inserts.



Ha Ha Ha well my basement does have an industrial feel about it.  



tarzan said:


> Looks good Rossco!
> 
> My old tube stove had a step top (similar to the convection deck) and a 400cfm blower. I could get the stove hot and crank up the rheostat for some quick heat.
> 
> I doubt I would benefit much from a convection deck on the Princess though as I havn't actually needed to even run the blower much witch is a little surprising because my old stove heated the house much better with the blower.
> 
> The BK just has more mass and a Wayyy longer burn time.



Thanks buddy, you are lucky to not need the fans, proves you have a good heating set up there. I run the fans 100% of the time to help the air circulate better, if I had the BK in the living room we would be chased out of the place. 



Highbeam said:


> So how did you mod the deck to allow the cat meter to work? I had to spin the dial 180.



Easy, just bend the lower fin down a little so the CAT needle rides above it, in fact it worked without modification but safer than sorry.


----------



## Niko

King insert hmmmmmm..


----------



## NinjaTech

I'll just throw this out there.. If there does *happen* to be a King version of the insert on the drawing board.. You may want to hint to the designers to try to get it setup with a 6 inch pipe, not the 8 inch that the free standing one has. I bet there would be a lot of people that the 8 inch pipe would be a deal breaker since they couldn't get an insulated liner down their chimney. (I know there is no way I would be able to fit a 8 inch liner down mine without busing out all the terracotta tiles.


----------



## Highbeam

NinjaTech said:


> I'll just throw this out there.. If there does *happen* to be a King version of the insert on the drawing board.. You may want to hint to the designers to try to get it setup with a 6 inch pipe, not the 8 inch that the free standing one has. I bet there would be a lot of people that the 8 inch pipe would be a deal breaker since they couldn't get an insulated liner down their chimney. (I know there is no way I would be able to fit a 8 inch liner down mine without busing out all the terracotta tiles.


 
One of my best wood heating decisions ever was to demolish a masonry chimney and go freestander. It had a Lopi freedom insert and a liner too. Didn't cost much to demo, the new class A pipe was more expensive.


----------



## NinjaTech

I don't think that would be much of an option for me, at least not easily. My chimney has two flues, one for the fireplace that has the insert, the other flue is for the gas furnace and water heater. If I took the entire thing out I would have to run a new flue for those too, and that would be two stories worth of pipe + the one story of pipe for the stove. I do wish I had a free stander though, I hear stories of people cooking on top of them and really wish I could do that.


----------



## gregbesia

Ninja, maybe you have already posted that, if so I apologize, but how tall is your chimney, how many sq. ft. do you have and what kind of burns are you getting? Thanks.


----------



## NinjaTech

Chimney is about 15 feet i think but never actually measured, its centered right in the middle of the house so no exterior to wick heat away,  6 inch insulated flex, block off plate. Ranch with about 1,550 SF upstairs and a fully finished basement. All the furnace air return vents are in the stove room or hall right next to it. I leave the blower on the furnace on but the burners shut off, and have all the upstairs air vents blocked off with the down stairs vents wide open. It hasn't been super cold yet, down in the teens once but it was easily able to keep the house (including basement) in the 70's, and would go about 8 hour reloads with sub par wood from last year. Won't know for sure how its going to do till it gets down to single digits for a few days straight and i start burning the good hard wood. Its in the 30's here now and I am doing two loads a day without issue though. Keeping 72-77 in the stove room.


----------



## gregbesia

Thanks Ninja. Looks like it would work for me , if I can ever convince my wife that we need one. I have a one story ranch, about 1200 sq ft. Inside chimney. My current insert heats our house just fine, but I would love to get overnight burns. Well I can dream.


----------



## Niko

I wonder if they could actually make the king as a insert with a 6 inch pipe?

Im loving my stove, my area lost power for no reason the other day for about 10 hrs and i was so happy my king was kicking.!


----------



## claybe

Highbeam said:


> One of my best wood heating decisions ever was to demolish a masonry chimney and go freestander. It had a Lopi freedom insert and a liner too. Didn't cost much to demo, the new class A pipe was more expensive.


Do you have before and after pictures?  I have a dual chimney. The princess is upstairs and the pellet insert is downstairs. If it gets down into the single digits the pellet stove goes on to supplement. I would love to see how to remove the chimney and put a free stander in...


----------



## Poindexter

Poindexter said:


> My understanding of chimney sweepings is shiny black is the least desirable stuff, and sheets of shiny black is the worst way to find it.
> 
> I bet there is a guide on this site already somewhere, perhaps begreen or grisu has a link to it in their favorites folder.



Found it.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/creosote_from_wood_burning_causes_and_solutions


----------



## Highbeam

claybe said:


> Do you have before and after pictures?  I have a dual chimney. The princess is upstairs and the pellet insert is downstairs. If it gets down into the single digits the pellet stove goes on to supplement. I would love to see how to remove the chimney and put a free stander in...



Not really, you just make all the brick disappear right down to below the floor. Frame and sheet over the old fireplace face hole. Patch the roof. Replace the subfloor and then finish. The masonry does not support the building, there are headers. It's like removing a door.


----------



## claybe

Highbeam said:


> Not really, you just make all the brick disappear right down to below the floor. Frame and sheet over the old fireplace face hole. Patch the roof. Replace the subfloor and then finish. The masonry does not support the building, there are headers. It's like removing a door.


Did you just put the pipe straight out the roof and ignored the chimney?  Or did you do 2 90s to the old chimney hole?


----------



## rdust

claybe said:


> Did you just put the pipe straight out the roof and ignored the chimney?  Or did you do 2 90s to the old chimney hole?



He removed the brick chimney, he has a Class A chimney straight up.


----------



## NinjaTech

I was at the stove shop today.. I'm pretty sure they are still cleaning the drool off the King free standers.. 

 I never really looked close at them when I was getting my insert just because I was not looking at the free standing stoves at all at the time.


----------



## Quentin2

NinjaTech said:


> I was at the stove shop today.. I'm pretty sure they are still cleaning the drool off the King free standers..
> 
> I never really looked close at them when I was getting my insert just because I was not looking at the free standing stoves at all at the time.


The king is in fact very bad ass!  It's 28 deg outside I have 1000sq ft down and 1800 up. Got my gas furnace set at 66 it's 80 in stove room and 76 upstairs, this is at 23 hours on a load I last looked at 22 hours ago.  Plenty a coals for restart.  Pretty sweet!


----------



## kennyp2339

Just  a quick update, Since I've installed the princess last week, I have been using splits between 2 x 4" thick buy 16 -18" long, it was perfect for my old stove but to small in diameter for this one,length is fine though for n s loading. I have larger splits of oak for later in the season so I don't mind burning the smaller stuff as of now, anyway I did have some large 4x6" & 5x6" by 16 -18" long of ash laying in the garage wood rack, I did a full load last night and man oh man, I will be splitting everything large from no one, the stove loved it and so did I. Just another happy customer.


----------



## Highbeam

claybe said:


> Did you just put the pipe straight out the roof and ignored the chimney?  Or did you do 2 90s to the old chimney hole?


 
No, I completely removed every bit of masonry fireplace/chimney from above the foundation. The only way you would know there ever was a chimney there is by looking at the roof framing carefully or if you crawled under the house in the crawlspace. The new class A pipe exits the roof a couple of feet away from the previous brick chimney.


----------



## rdust

kennyp2339 said:


> Just  a quick update, *Since I've installed the princess last week, I have been using splits between 2 x 4" thick buy 16 -18" long, it was perfect for my old stove but to small in diameter for this one,*length is fine though for n s loading. I have larger splits of oak for later in the season so I don't mind burning the smaller stuff as of now, anyway I did have some large 4x6" & 5x6" by 16 -18" long of ash laying in the garage wood rack, I did a full load last night and man oh man, I will be splitting everything large from no one, the stove loved it and so did I. Just another happy customer.




Why is it too small for the Princess?  While not ideal the stove controls the burn so well size isn't a huge factor.

I find it can burn large or small splits just fine.  I will say when I bought this stove back in 2010 I started splitting stuff on the larger side, I'm finding now since this is the first year I'm burning those larger splits that they may be a little too large.  It's harder to fill the firebox with all large stuff, a mix of small/medium/large is needed.  I find my ideal size to be 4x6 or somewhere close to that with small stuff to use as fillers.  I have a couple cords of larger oak squares waiting for a year or so out in the 8x8 range.  I may split those down a little if I find some time.  My splitting technique is always evolving/changing.


----------



## Highbeam

rdust said:


> Why is it too small for the Princess?  While not ideal the stove controls the burn so well size isn't a huge factor.
> 
> I find it can burn large or small splits just fine.  I will say when I bought this stove back in 2010 I started splitting stuff on the larger side, I'm finding now since this is the first year I'm burning those larger splits that they may be a little too large.  It's harder to fill the firebox with all large stuff, a mix of small/medium/large is needed.  I find my ideal size to be 4x6 or somewhere close to that with small stuff to use as fillers.  I have a couple cords of larger oak squares waiting for a year or so out in the 8x8 range.  I may split those down a little if I find some time.  My splitting technique is always evolving/changing.


 
Same for me. I shoot for a split size that allows at least a dozen splits in the princess firebox. That means 3-5" splits for me. Yes, I too have evolved over the years. I don't split a mix of sizes but my average split size has dropped to 3-5 for next year's wood that was split this summer.


----------



## turbojoe

Looking for a little advise on my BK Princess. The stove has run great since new this year. Following alot of good advice here, i am very happy with my shoulder season burns.
Now that we are starting to see colder weather i have picked up an issue with to much coaling. Single didgets last night had me running the stove at about 500 F stove top.
That is about 1.75 on the stat. This morning, after about a 10 hour burn my burn pot was 3/4 full with decent size coals.
This has happened before, just not as bad. I can usually get at least 3 more hours of good heat by raking. The problem is when on shift i don't have 3 hours to do this.
I am using Ash, dead fall that wasn't split until mid summer. MM reads 18/20% on a fresh split.
I do seem to have more issue with 6" rounds than i do splits. Also some of my splits are pretty big. Fit maybe 4 in the box.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Poindexter

I am finding if I put in a couple or three really big splits I can run a small fire on the kissing surfaces without running myself out of the house in the shoulders.

For really cold weather I want lots of small splits, lots and lots of burning surface area, maybe one gnarly chunk in the back to keep coals a bit longer.

Are you guys getting hot fires or just really long fires out of big splits?


----------



## R'Lee

I burn my BKK on high for about an hour a day; serious heat quickly and it knocks down the coals considerably.   Sometimes I'll put a small split on top just to help the process.
Shoulder burns: the BKK & I have come to an understanding (!)... 《ha》 what works for me is SMALL hot fires & let it go out or a Fat split at idle.


----------



## Badger

Finally won a game of wood Tetris.  Took a picture with my phone and my wife asked me from the other room what I was doing.  

"Just taking a picture of my wood"[emoji56]


----------



## tarzan

Badger, that pic is what I strive for, and often fail.

I have several small rounds and keep an arm load by the stove just to fill in the gaps.


----------



## Badger

First time I've achieved it this dense in my 3 season career.   Maybe I'll get another in the 2016-17 season


----------



## tarzan

Poindexter said:


> I
> 
> Are you guys getting hot fires or just really long fires out of big splits?



I'm finding I can get both, the big splits and rounds just take a while longer but then again I don't live in Alaska.

Been experimenting with with running the blower at different speeds and letting the thermostat adjust draft accordingly, instead of turning up the thermostat.


----------



## rdust

turbojoe said:


> Looking for a little advise on my BK Princess. The stove has run great since new this year. Following alot of good advice here, i am very happy with my shoulder season burns.
> Now that we are starting to see colder weather i have picked up an issue with to much coaling. Single didgets last night had me running the stove at about 500 F stove top.
> That is about 1.75 on the stat. This morning, after about a 10 hour burn my burn pot was 3/4 full with decent size coals.
> This has happened before, just not as bad. I can usually get at least 3 more hours of good heat by raking. The problem is when on shift i don't have 3 hours to do this.
> I am using Ash, dead fall that wasn't split until mid summer. MM reads 18/20% on a fresh split.
> I do seem to have more issue with 6" rounds than i do splits. Also some of my splits are pretty big. Fit maybe 4 in the box.
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.



Smaller splits or fill the stove less.  I still have a tendency to miss how much I need on the overnight load.  My wife gets up hours before me though so she rakes everything to the front/middle and burns them down for me.  On days where she doesn't get them burnt down I spread them out and load on top of them.


----------



## Quentin2

Yeah badger that is an impressive stove stuffing.  I'm getting more lazy with loading but seeing that is inspiring.

Just reloaded my stove somewhere around 24 hours, outside temp dropped today to 15. Upstairs 71, stove room 74, stove top 200.  A handful of coals and one small cold split on the side.

Here's tonights unimpressive load of cottonwood and birch


----------



## turbojoe

rdust said:


> Smaller splits or fill the stove less.  I still have a tendency to miss how much I need on the overnight load.  My wife gets up hours before me though so she rakes everything to the front/middle and burns them down for me.  On days where she doesn't get them burnt down I spread them out and load on top of them.


 
Thanks rdust, after seeing Badgers photo, it looks like i am using to large of splits. I am lucky to get 4 or 5 in it.
I have never loaded mine up that full, how long do you have to char that much wood to get it lit off ??


----------



## Quentin2

Here's a pic at 20 minutes of full blast right before I choke it down for the long haul.  Stove top 550 cat 1500.


----------



## rdust

Highbeam said:


> Same for me. I shoot for a split size that allows at least a dozen splits in the princess firebox. That means 3-5" splits for me. Yes, I too have evolved over the years. I don't split a mix of sizes but my average split size has dropped to 3-5 for next year's wood that was split this summer.



Loaded the stove with 6 splits this morning.  I won't even get into the "big" stuff for the next year or two.  Had some room for a filler or two but not needed for 12-15 hour loads.


----------



## NinjaTech

Not as pretty as some of yours, but still ready for a nice warm night!


----------



## Quentin2

Had the day off so was able to load stove during day.  It was mid teens last night and low 20s today.  Late last night I turned the stove up to almost 2 because I saw upstairs thermostat was trending down to 71.  A perfect temp but I was guessing it was gonna slowly drop.

So I reloaded at 17 hours on a full bed of coals from the load in my previous pic. Downstairs is currently 76 upstairs is 72.

Just figured I would post a few days in the life of my freestander and show my "real world burns".


----------



## Quentin2

Anybody's handle looking burnt like this?  Only second season burning.


----------



## jeff_t

Mine is just a very little bit discolored. I tried to take a pic, but it didn't even show up.

The bypass handle on my sister's stove was charred. Like, almost ready to burst into flame charred, and the door it's a little darker than yours.

That stove saw some serious abuse, but the only parts that were warped, cracked or otherwise melted were the bypass gasket retainers. I could tell part of the top had been glowing, at least once. But everywhere I put a straight edge, it was flat. I know BK doesn't use the thickest steel, and a stove of this bulk should weigh a lot more than 435 lbs, but apparently it's good enough.


----------



## Dieselhead

Quentin2 said:


> View attachment 147438
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody's handle looking burnt like this?  Only second season burning.


 looks like clearance to combustables has not been met


----------



## kennyp2339

I don't think I can ever get tired of talking about this boring stove, I have a ton of smaller splits but with my large split load of ash the stove just seemed to put out hire heat with minimum coals, I know ash doesn't coal it ashes..lol but the stove seemed to like the bigger pieces, when I get deeper in the season I have more oak and maple, some of the pieces are large and some are small, I will just mix them, the only problem I have is some of the logs go up to 20"long so loading north and south is out of the question, as I type this I just figured out that I love having these dilemma's, this stove operates so good I cant complain and I need to complain about something lol


----------



## weatherguy

turbojoe said:


> Looking for a little advise on my BK Princess. The stove has run great since new this year. Following alot of good advice here, i am very happy with my shoulder season burns.
> Now that we are starting to see colder weather i have picked up an issue with to much coaling. Single didgets last night had me running the stove at about 500 F stove top.
> That is about 1.75 on the stat. This morning, after about a 10 hour burn my burn pot was 3/4 full with decent size coals.
> This has happened before, just not as bad. I can usually get at least 3 more hours of good heat by raking. The problem is when on shift i don't have 3 hours to do this.
> I am using Ash, dead fall that wasn't split until mid summer. MM reads 18/20% on a fresh split.
> I do seem to have more issue with 6" rounds than i do splits. Also some of my splits are pretty big. Fit maybe 4 in the box.
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Joe, that will happen in the colder weather, I used to buy a few packages of eco bricks or I would put aside some pine splits to put on top of the coals and burn them down. The eco bricks would burn hot so I got good heat while burning the coals down at the same time.


----------



## jeff_t

weatherguy said:


> Joe, that will happen in the colder weather, I used to buy a few packages of eco bricks or I would put aside some pine splits to put on top of the coals and burn them down. The eco bricks would burn hot so I got good heat while burning the coals down at the same time.



I had this problem last winter in really cold weather, when I was burning gigantic oak splits. Seemed like the thing to do, but in reality I ended up with coals deeper than door level. Smaller splits of ash and elm would burn faster with fewer coals, and I could get a full load of splits going every twelve hours or so, to make max btus.


----------



## Poindexter

Similar to recent posters, I have been accumulating coals faster than they are burning off.  I've been a pretty consistent +10dF to -10dF regime for a couple or three weeks now.  Supposed to get up to +25dF tommorrow...briefly.

What I am finding with 12%MC spruce is low coals, very little ash and 11 hour burns on low to medium.  Enough coals to restart easily without the house cooling off much, overall very happy.

Trouble is I am running out of spruce and having to get into my birch stash though it isn't really "cold" here yet.  Most of my birch is measuring 15-16%MC.  I have some pieces I am starting to recognize my eye and heft at ~20% that are going back out on the racks for another summer in the sun.  The 15-16% pieces are burning real nice on high and make "better" coals than the spruce, but I don't want 'em, and I don't want to run the stove on high all the time because it just isn't "that" cold here yet compared to my insulation and my air seals.

I've been burning down the coals accumulated since last weekend for about four hours now.  If I had made a level surface I would have had coals spilling out the door.

While I am home this w/e I am going to dig into my three year old pile to see if  can find some 12-13% birch to see how that ashes.  In the meantime, at zero degrees Fahrenheit average, 12%MC spruce ashes and coals a lot less in my firebox than 16%MC birch.


----------



## Quentin2

jeff_t said:


> Mine is just a very little bit discolored. I tried to take a pic, but it didn't even show up.
> 
> The bypass handle on my sister's stove was charred. Like, almost ready to burst into flame charred, and the door it's a little darker than yours.
> 
> That stove saw some serious abuse, but the only parts that were warped, cracked or otherwise melted were the bypass gasket retainers. I could tell part of the top had been glowing, at least once. But everywhere I put a straight edge, it was flat. I know BK doesn't use the thickest steel, and a stove of this bulk should weigh a lot more than 435 lbs, but apparently it's good enough.


I think the only time my handle feels really hot is when I forget to either activate bypass on a new load or turn it down after charring.  I've done it more then I'd like to admit.  I'll start a new load crank it up hopefully  for only ten minutes, forget about it then 20 or 30 min later I'll smell the stove pipe getting hot.  I need the put a cheap timer on the wall next to stove.


----------



## turbojoe

weatherguy said:


> Joe, that will happen in the colder weather, I used to buy a few packages of eco bricks or I would put aside some pine splits to put on top of the coals and burn them down. The eco bricks would burn hot so I got good heat while burning the coals down at the same time.


 Thanks for the advice Weatherguy and others. Kinda ironic, i stopped by TSC on my way to work today, before reading this, and picked up 5 bundles of Eco Bricks. They were on sale for $2.99
And yes, i also had coals so high i was afraid to open the door.lol. I am ok with the coals when i am home, you can rake those babies and get hours of heat.
I was kinda surprised to see Ash coal that much. I also think it's right on the edge of being dry enough. 17% to 20%, I have a bunch of Elm that was dropped,cut,split and stacked in the spring. I was surprised to see it at 20/22% already. Maybe i will try some, It has some thick bark on it.

Joe


----------



## johnstra

my handle is charred just like that, Quentin2.  I do let mine run strong and hot on reloads, though, to clean my glass.  I usually run w/ the bypass open for 20 minutes.  I've taken to putting a piece of foil on my handle because it does get mighty hot.

2nd season w/ my BKK and I am a very satisfied customer.  I reload once a day and the furnace stays off unless it's in the single digits or colder out - my thermostat is set at 70 (would prefer to set it at 66, but there are too many females in my house ).

-john


----------



## claybe

johnstra said:


> my handle is charred just like that, Quentin2.  I do let mine run strong and hot on reloads, though, to clean my glass.  I usually run w/ the bypass open for 20 minutes.  I've taken to putting a piece of foil on my handle because it does get mighty hot.
> 
> 2nd season w/ my BKK and I am a very satisfied customer.  I reload once a day and the furnace stays off unless it's in the single digits or colder out - my thermostat is set at 70 (would prefer to set it at 66, but there are too many females in my house ).
> 
> -john


Nice to see another Colorado BK enthusiast here John  Get ready for the snow tomorrow!  

This is my third season and my handles are not discolor wd at all. By the way, you can probably make your own. They unscrew fairly easily.


----------



## Quentin2

claybe said:


> Nice to see another Colorado BK enthusiast here John  Get ready for the snow tomorrow!
> 
> This is my third season and my handles are not discolor wd at all. By the way, you can probably make your own. They unscrew fairly easily.


Guess that proves inserts don't get as hot

I don't mind running it full blast with cat active cause hopefully it cleans the cat.  When I leave it full blast with bypass open and forget it, just a waste of wood.

Wish we'd get some snow, dismal all across the state second year in a row.


----------



## BKVP

Do not make that assumption!  His PI may not get as hot due to fuel, draft and other factors.  My King handle is 13 years old and has discoloration.  I have marginal draft but a female occupant that runs the poor King hot all the time! (House is 80F)


----------



## Quentin2

I guess the wink didn't convey the "just messing with you" like I hoped.

I'm sitting in a 80 degree room myself thanks to the king!


----------



## BrotherBart

1117 posts. This thread burns longer than a BK. 

And triple the h.c. record for a thread. This thing is longer than a well rope.


----------



## Quentin2

H.c.  Head count?


----------



## NinjaTech

If I ran mine hot enough to burn the handle, the entire door would no longer be silver, but a nice shade of blue..


----------



## BrotherBart

Quentin2 said:


> H.c.  Head count?



hearth.com


----------



## jeff_t

BrotherBart said:


> 1117 posts. This thread burns longer than a BK.
> 
> And triple the h.c. record for a thread. This thing is longer than a well rope.



At least it's one thread on a bunch of different crap that's sorta related, instead of a bunch of different threads on a bunch of different crap that's sorta related. 

Gotta make moderation pretty easy, especially since everybody is mostly civil.


----------



## Poindexter

Reaches for soapbox...

I am not a shill for BK.  BKVP was in town a couple weeks ago and bought me one, (one only) cold beer.  Considering I paid close to $4350 to get my Ashford into my second floor living room with a fan kit on it, I don't owe BK a thing and they can jolly well buy me a few more beers over the years without me feeling like I owe BK a thing.

I burnt some 12% birch this weekend.  So far this season I have burnt spruce at 15%, spruce at 12%, and various loads of birch at 20%MC, 16% MC and now 12% MC.

I observe that MC for MC birch makes more ash than spruce.

I also observe that birch has a little more heat in it per unit volume than spruce and makes more coals.

What blew me away was how running 12%MC birch gave me a smooth all night burn with the thermostat on medium but the next morning I had just a very few coals and a fine layer of ash.

If I had enough 12% birch to do it I could run this stove all week on hot reloads without the cat ever going inactive, burn down my coals Saturday morning in maybe an hour, and carry out half a drawer of ash.  

Last week I did that, only with 16% birch.  It took almost eight hours to burn down the coals, and three fresh drawers of ashes are in the steel can out in the yard.

Saying this as just another dude on the internet, and actively denying that anyone at BK put me up to this, if you aren't burning 12% MC wood I _strongly_ encourage you to take enough wood out of your shed for one weekend.  Put it out on your seasoning rack (covered on top likely)  for another summer, and save that one weekend worth of wood for the coldest weekend in January 2016.

I promise if you haven't run a load or three of 12%MC wood in your cat equipped BK you have no idea what this stove is really capable of.

/soapbox

I repeat a previous offer, I will trade my left testicle for five cords of white oak delivered to zip 99701 as green logs.  Thinking about changing that "20%" number in my sig file to a lower number.


----------



## BKVP

Will you trade your right testicle for another beer?  On a serious note, I travel extensively and make the same offer of a drink to anyone that accepts.

This site is a community of wood burners that failed as stand up comics but have a genuine interest in seeing other wood burners successfully and SAFELY heating their homes.  If anyone accuses any BK owner for being a shill for our company, no beer for them!

So now I will expand my offer, when I travel I post it here often.  If you own _Any wood stove and contribute to these forums _and I am in your area, send me a pm and if he can sinc, I'll buy them a beer as well...must be over 18!


----------



## BrotherBart

Poindexter said:


> I repeat a previous offer, I will trade my left testicle for five cords of white oak delivered to zip 99701 as green logs.



Payment required in advance.


----------



## Poindexter

BrotherBart said:


> Payment required in advance.


delivery required before scheduling medical procedure in hospital.


----------



## tarzan

Anybody here run there BK without the blower?

I've been running without the blower a lot with this stove since I got it at the beginning of this season. 

Problem is sometimes with the thermostat shut completely down. Not opening at all. The cat probe thermo will creep up to pegged, my stove top thermo will get over 700*F, and I end up turning the fans on to cool things down.

It doesn't seem to matter the outside temps (just turned the fans on and it is 37*F now) or if I let the load burn in a while before shutting it down in steps or shut it down quickly after cat goes active.

The door gasket passes the dollar bill test and it only does it once every week or two so I really think if it was a leak it would happen more often. if anybody knows what I'm doing wrong here I would appreciate some advice.


----------



## rdust

Poindexter said:


> I promise if you haven't run a load or three of 12%MC wood in your cat equipped BK you have no idea what this stove is really capable of.



How are you measuring the full load to know it's at 12%MC?  Are you splitting each piece and checking it with a meter before loading the stove?  Are you correcting for temperature and wood species?  That's about the EMC for your area, how many years did it take for the wood to reach that point?      

For me I've never noticed a bit of difference from stuff in the mid 20's to my best stuff which was css in 2009.  Mid 20's on a meter is 20% wet basis which is fine for an EPA stove.


----------



## rdust

tarzan said:


> Anybody here run there BK without the blower?
> 
> I've been running without the blower a lot with this stove since I got it at the beginning of this season.
> 
> Problem is sometimes with the thermostat shut completely down. Not opening at all. The cat probe thermo will creep up to pegged, my stove top thermo will get over 700*F, and I end up turning the fans on to cool things down.
> 
> It doesn't seem to matter the outside temps (just turned the fans on and it is 37*F now) or if I let the load burn in a while before shutting it down in steps or shut it down quickly after cat goes active.
> 
> The door gasket passes the dollar bill test and it only does it once every week or two so I really think if it was a leak it would happen more often. if anybody knows what I'm doing wrong here I would appreciate some advice.



You're making a lot of smoke for the cat to eat when it's shut down so the temp climbs.  Try opening the air a touch so the t-stat works a little and see if it helps.  Is the stove new this season?  If so the cat is still pretty sensitive and will settle over time.

I usually run mine on the edge of the normal line(1 3/4 ish) and use the fans to regulate the temp.  I usually have to use the fans when it dips below 30, above 30 I usually have them off.


----------



## kennyp2339

Tarzan, I have the princess free stander w/ out the blower..I have noticed higher temps, my cat probe is always in the 2-3 o'clock position, my thermostat is set at 1.75 plus / minus. I was experimenting a little today because it was 45deg outside, I turned the knob all the way down to setting 1, you could hear the click of the t-stat close, but what happened was the stove box was still very warm, all my flames died out but there was a lot of smoke in my fire box (from the load smoldering) the cat was eating most of it up thus keeping the cat probe running high - the heat has to go somewhere, I looked outside and there was just a little smoke coming from the chimney. If your going to do a low burn and if the cat probe is in the active position, keep the t-stat in the lower setting, don't let all the wood catch fire and then turn it down, it might help you with keeping the stove from getting to hot by limiting the amount of off gasing from the initial load up.


----------



## firefighterjake

BKVP said:


> Will you trade your right testicle for another beer?  On a serious note, I travel extensively and make the same offer of a drink to anyone that accepts.
> 
> This site is a community of wood burners that failed as stand up comics but have a genuine interest in seeing other wood burners successfully and SAFELY heating their homes.  If anyone accuses any BK owner for being a shill for our company, no beer for them!
> 
> So now I will expand my offer, when I travel I post it here often.  If you own _Any wood stove and contribute to these forums _and I am in your area, send me a pm and if he can sinc, I'll buy them a beer as well...must be over 18!



What if the legal drinking age is 21 in the state?


----------



## tarzan

Thanks for the replies.

Guess I just assumed the cat would have already settled.

Rdust, I run my stove almost exactly as you describe in your last paragraph. I find it neat that with the thermostat controled stove I can get more heat by simply running the blower faster and stove top temps remain relatively steady.

I've tried not burning the load in thinking less smoke and tried burning it in quite a bit thinking off gassing it some would help.

As I said, it's not an every load thing by any means. Just that when it happens it's usually but not always in cooler outside temps, ( thus the reason for running without a blower) and it gets the house a little warmer than we like.

Probably right about giving it a little air so it will smolder less. will give that a try next time.


----------



## Poindexter

rdust said:


> How are you measuring the full load to know it's at 12%MC?  Are you splitting each piece and checking it with a meter before loading the stove?  Are you correcting for temperature and wood species?  That's about the EMC for your area, how many years did it take for the wood to reach that point?
> 
> For me I've never noticed a bit of difference from stuff in the mid 20's to my best stuff which was css in 2009.  Mid 20's on a meter is 20% wet basis which is fine for an EPA stove.




The lions share of my wood winter 2014/15 was felled by me in Sep/Oct 2013, split over the winter and seasoned on pallets on cinder blocks over the entire summer of 2014.  It was split and stacked before "break up" and moved off the racks onto the shed after freeze up.  Freeze up is when you can go barhopping on a snowmachine on the river without driving a car on the street.  Break up is when the spring melt is far enough along for the ice to break up and flow downstream. 

 I bought a new weedwacker this year and trimmed the grass around the woodpile more often than I mowed the lawn.  My sunny side medium birch splits and shady side small birch splits measure 16% pretty consistent at 70dF.  The few medium birch splits that ended up on the shady side measure 20% at 70dF and have earned another summer in the sun.  All of my split pretty small spruce made it down to 12% in one summer, though some of the splits on the shady side with 180 degrees of bark on them from only being split once hung at 15%.  All per electronic gizmo, uncorrected.  I have the yellow one with the LED rainbow that says "Blaze King" on the front.

I have a smallish cache, a cord or two, of wood that was split three years ago.  It was stored on a porch, about 8' back from the roof line.  What happened was a friend of mine sold his house with a wood stove, bought a new house with a pellet stove and let me have his extra dry extra cold winter stash off the porch.  I have it on pallets on asphalt and tarped.  I brought in close to half a face cord of it, let it warm to 55dF ambient in the garage and found 10-11% ~ ought to be about 12% corrected for temp. These splits were noticeably lighter per apparent volume than the 16% and 20% stuff I handle regularly.  I did split two of them open, I did not open them all.

I don't correct for species.  My local to me BK dealer is happy and will warranty the cat as long as the electronic gizmo reads 16% or less, corrected for temp but not correcting for species.  It might be in the future my local BK dealer is going to be looking for "13%" per gizmo to honor warranties.  I don't know, but I intend to be there before he updates his policy.  Owners manual for the Ashford 30 calls for 13% or less per electronic gizmo, and it does make a noticeable difference to me compared even to 16% per gizmo.  

At my house 20%PG (per gizmo)  is usable but needs to be burnt with the stove running wide open hot and makes a lot of ash.

16%MC-PG is good, but burning down the coals and dealing with the ash is a time consuming chore every Saturday.

12%MC-PG birch and spruce is the good stuff.

I am working hard to find nothing wetter than 16% MC PG autumn 2015, I think it's worth it.


----------



## claybe

BKVP said:


> Do not make that assumption!  His PI may not get as hot due to fuel, draft and other factors.  My King handle is 13 years old and has discoloration.  I have marginal draft but a female occupant that runs the poor King hot all the time! (House is 80F)



This is correct!  I had some well seasoned fruit wood that I was reserving for smoking meat but decided to fill the insert and see what would happen. It went 24 hours. It is very expensive to get hardwood here, but it makes all the difference. I burn pine and tree service cuttings. It is NOTHING like the fruit wood I burned. Also the hard fruit wood was at least twice as heavy. The type of wood makes all the difference.


----------



## Highbeam

firefighterjake said:


> What if the legal drinking age is 21 in the state?


 
In his state, and mine, the drinking age is 21.

Perhaps he is trying to make sure to only invite adults over the age of 18. I would expect that he will buy those underage folks a soda instead.


----------



## Quentin2

Here's some pics at 23 hours into a burn. Last pic is after I spread the coals.  I Have realized I can moderate my home temps a little better by not running the blowers, especially in these mild temps 32deg.  I assumed I had to keep them on for the heat to travel up the stairs but not the case.

As others have stated I am getting longer burn times without blowers.  I still have a few hours of heat from these coals if I choose not to load now.  On a low fan setting long shot guess would be 2-6 hours less heat.

It feels good I haven't let it go cold for over 3 weeks.


----------



## alforit

Awesome ! .....  Gotta love it


----------



## claybe

So I was wondering how you guys don't stall out the cat?  I usually fill her up around 9:30 at night and by 5:30 in the morning the cat is not active. There are still coals but the cat is not active. It keeps the house moderately warm, but not as toasty as it could be. Just wondering how to avoid this. Should I just turn it up?!?


----------



## R'Lee

claybe said:


> So I was wondering how you guys don't stall out the cat?  I usually fill her up around 9:30 at night and by 5:30 in the morning the cat is not active. There are still coals but the cat is not active. It keeps the house moderately warm, but not as toasty as it could be. Just wondering how to avoid this. Should I just turn it up?!?


----------



## R'Lee

I just turn it up on high and maybe add a small split for about an hour; then add more wood, wait a few minutes before I turn it back down before I go to work.  I RARELY  fill it up fully.  Not cold enough yet here in MI    If it bothers you waking up too slightly lower temps; yeah turn it up a tad or use lower moisture wood;  mine is rock maple at about 8%.


----------



## Quentin2

I find that the dial is pretty sensitive.  An 1/8" down can sometimes be the difference in it stalling or not.  As many have said there's tons of variables.  I kinda know where I can't go any lower (around 1.5) and even in large heating needs I don't leave it past 2.25 typically.  That's not a lot of turning of the knob to have drastically different burns.  maybe you can stuff the wood in a little tighter and get some longer burns.


----------



## claybe

Quentin2 said:


> I find that the dial is pretty sensitive.  An 1/8" down can sometimes be the difference in it stalling or not.  As many have said there's tons of variables.  I kinda know where I can't go any lower (around 1.5) and even in large heating needs I don't leave it past 2.25 typically.  That's not a lot of turning of the knob to have drastically different burns.  maybe you can stuff the wood in a little tighter and get some longer burns.


I agree with you about the dial being sensitive!  Guess I am still looking for the "sweet spot" after 3 seasons  Wood is dry but I don't have hardwood like a lot of you do.


----------



## Rossco

Quentin2 said:


> I find that the dial is pretty sensitive.  An 1/8" down can sometimes be the difference in it stalling or not.  As many have said there's tons of variables.  I kinda know where I can't go any lower (around 1.5) and even in large heating needs I don't leave it past 2.25 typically.  That's not a lot of turning of the knob to have drastically different burns.  maybe you can stuff the wood in a little tighter and get some longer burns.



Yeah I agree with the 1/8 turn theory. I also don't go lower than 1.5 or higher than 2.25 either. Middle of the 'Norm' is my upper heating practice. 

I find between 1.5 and 2 works great 90% of the time.


----------



## claybe

Rossco said:


> Yeah I agree with the 1/8 turn theory. I also don't go lower than 1.5 or higher than 2.25 either. Middle of the 'Norm' is my upper heating practice.
> 
> I find between 1.5 and 2 works great 90% of the time.


Please translate into princess insert speak. Can you tell me in percentage what these numbers mean?!?  Also can you describe what the flame or glow is doing at these numbers?


----------



## Quentin2

claybe said:


> I agree with you about the dial being sensitive!  Guess I am still looking for the "sweet spot" after 3 seasons  Wood is dry but I don't have hardwood like a lot of you do.


You might notice that a large percentage of blaze king owners are located in softwood areas. Northwest, bc, ak etc.  part of that is they're based in the northwest, but some of that is you can stretch long burns out of softwood in cold climates with these stoves.

 Another trick is to not char the wood as much on startup.  If your reloading on hot coals with real dry wood and it takes off right away I feel comfortable  activating cat before it crosses the line.  I think there is a little lag time before that probe reads accurate temp and I just read the burn and wood and not the probe.  When it's not as hot a reload and I can see it's taking longer I defer to probe.  My cat probe almost always shoots up real quick when I do this.  

Anyways, just my experiences and thoughts.
Good luck man!


----------



## Quentin2

claybe said:


> Please translate into princess insert speak. Can you tell me in percentage what these numbers mean?!?  Also can you describe what the flame or glow is doing at these numbers?


I'm commuting bumper to bumper right now but if nobody gets you I'll snap a photo of the dial all the way down and up.

Once it's settled not much flame if any on lower settings 1.5 and very light blue flames and brighter coals at the the 2 stage With occasional flare ups.

Edit: not my turn to drive, shotgun hearthing!


----------



## Rossco

claybe said:


> Please translate into princess insert speak. Can you tell me in percentage what these numbers mean?!?  Also can you describe what the flame or glow is doing at these numbers?



Ah cannot help with The insert sorry.

I have infinite 0 then 1. The norm burn zone has 2 right in the middle.

Some people let ther BK Go full wack for an hour or so. No chance I could do that. Would be chimney fire material.

Edit: I have an intense orange glow @ 1.75 burning Tamarack. I've now turned it down to 1.5, it will staiblize and burn through till 12:00 noon tomorrow. I have a voracious draft if I heat the chimney up.


----------



## Quentin2

Here's where my dial sat for the last 20 hours.  I'll reload in 4 more hours.  I get uncomfortable going much lower then this.  Cat at 600, stove top 300 right now.  Full high knob stops at 3.5 used only on startups.  Looks like they know what their doing with the normal range.  I can't really see the knob too good, I'm at minimum clearance plus an inch if memory serves.


----------



## Rossco

Quentin2 said:


> Here's where my dial sat for the last 20 hours.  I'll reload in 4 more hours.  I get uncomfortable going much lower then this.  Cat at 600, stove top 300 right now.  Full high knob stops at 3.5 used only on startups.  Looks like they know what their doing with the normal range.  I can't really see the knob too good, I'm at minimum clearance plus an inch if memory serves.
> View attachment 147864



That's a real good setting @ 24hrs. I won't get that long during the cold. 

The larger firebox is defo an advantage. Dam my 6" flue


----------



## Quentin2

Pretty warm here, 29 deg.  It still trips me out I can heat this whole house with one stove for 24 hours on mostly cottonwood and a couple sticks of birch.  When I had my builder install a chimney I was kinda pissed initially when I went stove shopping and 95% of stoves were 6".  I knew zero about stoves and chimneys and thought the builder kinda screwed me with the 8" pipe.  I was planning on installing a stove to have some fires on weekends and emergencies only.  Two years later I'm darn near off of gas heat and real glad he "screwed" me with the 8".  (Wow that sounds bad)

How's the winter in bc and what town you by?  I would love to go snow machining down there.


----------



## BKVP

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I would just remind each of you to please always include in your thermostat references (settings), surface temp references and cat temp references that not all installations are identical due to fuel density, moisture content and draft variability.  As some of you also know, the bimetallic springs are different between each model (in multiple ways!) and the settings also vary by model.

Many of you are very knowledgeable and have been great in helping your fellow wood burners.  However, there are many new to this forum and wood burning that see the forum "regulars" as the experts they are.  We should not assume everyone knows what each of those with more experience knows.

Before I forget, Merry Christmas to everyone and may God bless you and your families with warmth, comfort and happiness during the holiday season.


----------



## BrotherBart

So you are saying that BKs work like all wood stoves?


----------



## Quentin2

Dang, that's twice now I've gotten in trouble.


----------



## alforit

Quentin2 said:


> Dang, that's twice now I've gotten in trouble.



No worries dude............Its all good


----------



## kennyp2339

Well lastnight I had a pretty good burn, 1.75 on the t-stat with a full load of cherry and ash, medium splits but I packed the firebox tight, the temp prob was at 12 o'clock when I loaded so I immediately closed the bypass, the prob creeped up to 2 o'clock before I went to bed, woke up at 5 am, really burned down during the night but still had a large pieces , temp prob was at 11 o'clock, no blower or fan on but the heat was fantastic, I guess with low burns you don't want the fan going, still experimenting though


----------



## Rich2343

My Princess crusies about 600* on the cat and 300* on the stove top. 17 ft of 2 wall pipe from the stove. Kiln dried wood. This will burn about 12 hrs. It will burn about the same time full or half full load. Stove pipe 16" up reads about 220* with the ir therm. Dollar bill check out good Looking to burn longer and hotter.


----------



## tarzan

Well, it's 25*F here at the moment. Still running the Princess on 1.5. Actualy at that setting the draft never opens for the first several hours of the burn so I could very well run on "0" for that time.

Been trying to get a 24 hour schedule but have been coming up an hour or two short every day so I loaded the stove half full at 5:00am this morning so I can load it just before bed time tonight.

Still hard to believe I'm thinking ahead to the next day's schedule whenever I load the stove!

Of course, every setup is different and your mileage may vary.


----------



## BKVP

BrotherBart said:


> So you are saying that BKs work like all wood stoves?



What they do is turn an unmetered (variable) fuel into a metered fuel by delivering the most even heat output from a given load of wood into a home.  They do this with efficiently and cleanly.

And yes, like other wood stoves on the market, our stoves can be influenced in terms of performance by factors outside the control of our company.


----------



## BKVP

Quentin2 said:


> Dang, that's twice now I've gotten in trouble.



We don't issue demerits!


----------



## kennyp2339

BKVP said:


> What they do is turn an unmetered (variable) fuel into a metered fuel by delivering the most even heat output from a given load of wood into a home.  They do this with efficiently and cleanly.
> 
> And yes, like other wood stoves on the market, our stoves can be influenced in terms of performance by factors outside the control of our company.


Wow awesome reply my friend


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Well, it's 25*F here at the moment. Still running the Princess on 1.5. Actualy at that setting the draft never opens for the first several hours of the burn so I could very well run on "0" for that time.
> 
> Been trying to get a 24 hour schedule but have been coming up an hour or two short every day so I loaded the stove half full at 5:00am this morning so I can load it just before bed time tonight.
> 
> Still hard to believe I'm thinking ahead to the next day's schedule whenever I load the stove!
> 
> Of course, every setup is different and your mileage may vary.


 
My wood supply has drifted into more low btu white cedar/juniper/cypress and less doug fir for awhile plus our temps are staying low so I too am coming up short on the 24 hour burns. This morning I broke down and dropped to 12 hour cycles reloading on top of a partially consumed fuel load. Sure, it's ONLY 12 hours between loads but they are partial loads and the house stays warmer. 12 hour cycles are still very convenient when 24 is just a bit out of reach.

Loading my BK with the firebox still 1/4 full of burning fuel makes for some spilled smoke from the loading door. It seems no amount of open bypass cracked door action solves this. What works better is to cover the burning fuel with fresh fuel ASAP.

What tricks have you all found for keeping the smoke from leaking out of the loading door. Not interested in adding chimney height.


----------



## R'Lee

Interesting...  I don't seem to have that problem at all.  I do have the OAK tho, perhaps that makes a difference? My procedure for doing what you describe,  turn the stat on "high", open bypass wait a few moments  & slowly crack the front door.  Then open it wide, fill till satisfied. Close door, close damper, turn stat back down.  I have a VERY sensitive (*dont ask me how I know or about that seared roast beef  ) ADT smoke & fire alarm not too far away...  I have no issues.


----------



## MMCM(SS)USNRet

BKVP said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen,
> 
> I would just remind each of you to please always include in your thermostat references (settings), surface temp references and cat temp references that not all installations are identical due to fuel density, moisture content and draft variability.



How do you translate the standard-issue cat probe reading to actual cat temp?  I think I read somewhere back towards the beginning of this thread that there's a Condar  probe that has a temperature scale instead of "inactive/active".  Is that what you're using to get cat temp or has someone taken the trouble to make up a conversion chart?  I'm using a Condar stovepipe thermometer for surface temp readings.

Wish I had found this forum when I first bought my Princess.  I had a bit of a learning curve moving to a steel stove with a cat and the info here would probably have saved me some heartache.  I heated 2400 sq ft burning doug fir in a custom-built masonry Russian woodstove in Puget Sound for 20 years and wished I could have brought it with me when we moved here.  Had the chimney swept once about 5 years in and the sweep told me I could go 10 easily.  Not quite the same story with my BK...the stove is amazing, but there is considerably more concern with creosote burning beetle-killed lodgepole pine almost exclusively (LOTS of it here!) so I'm envious of all you hardwood burners that get a couple of tablespoons of brown dust when you clean your stack after a couple of cords!


----------



## tarzan

I don't have any tricks to keep the smoke from spilling out that you don't already know. i can handle the little bit of smoke better than the burning creosite type smell I get if I open the door on a large coal bed! 

Mmmmm, I think the little white tick marks around the outside of the probe thermometer may correspond to approximately 500*F although some time back in this thread there was a post by Rusty Shackleford showing the difference in the face of the old vs. new numbered Condor probe thermometers. The temps were in different places leaving me to wonder if they changed something about the bi metal coil or just recalibrated the face.


----------



## Dieselhead

Rich2343 said:


> My Princess crusies about 600* on the cat and 300* on the stove top. 17 ft of 2 wall pipe from the stove. Kiln dried wood. This will burn about 12 hrs. It will burn about the same time full or half full load. Stove pipe 16" up reads about 220* with the ir therm. Dollar bill check out good Looking to burn longer and hotter.


 Loaded as full as I can get it my King burns about the same as your princess, a load will last about 14 hrs. Stat around 2. I aim for 500° stovetop which is what is needed to keep the house at 70. I have no idea where these 24-40 hr reports of keeping the house warm comes from unless they live in a 500sqft super insulated house and run the stat pretty low.


----------



## BKVP

Highbeam said:


> My wood supply has drifted into more low btu white cedar/juniper/cypress and less doug fir for awhile plus our temps are staying low so I too am coming up short on the 24 hour burns. This morning I broke down and dropped to 12 hour cycles reloading on top of a partially consumed fuel load. Sure, it's ONLY 12 hours between loads but they are partial loads and the house stays warmer. 12 hour cycles are still very convenient when 24 is just a bit out of reach.
> 
> Loading my BK with the firebox still 1/4 full of burning fuel makes for some spilled smoke from the loading door. It seems no amount of open bypass cracked door action solves this. What works better is to cover the burning fuel with fresh fuel ASAP.
> 
> What tricks have you all found for keeping the smoke from leaking out of the loading door. Not interested in adding chimney height.


Do you have black single wall pipe with any offsets or elbows?


----------



## BKVP

Dieselhead said:


> Loaded as full as I can get it my King burns about the same as your princess, a load will last about 14 hrs. Stat around 2. I aim for 500° stovetop which is what is needed to keep the house at 70. I have no idea where these 24-40 hr reports of keeping the house warm comes from unless they live in a 500sqft super insulated house and run the stat pretty low.


Or they live in a warmer climate, use different density fuel, have different RValues, more draft, clean out their stoves more often to hold more fuel, run fans, load only larger rounds not split.....etc....etc....


----------



## tarzan

Rich2343 said:


> My Princess crusies about 600* on the cat and 300* on the stove top. 17 ft of 2 wall pipe from the stove. Kiln dried wood. This will burn about 12 hrs. It will burn about the same time full or half full load. Stove pipe 16" up reads about 220* with the ir therm. Dollar bill check out good Looking to burn longer and hotter.



Could you get a couple arm loads of seasoned cord wood to try?


----------



## Highbeam

BKVP said:


> Do you have black single wall pipe with any offsets or elbows?


 
All vertical, all interior, simpson double wall stove pipe. No screen in my cap. No trees outside. This same chimney would suck a seagull off of a landfill with the non-cat hearthstone. Well, maybe not a big seagull.

I measure flue temps with a condar probe and they stay at 400 when on cruise settings until the wood runs out. So when I reload on the partial load and get smoke spillage, flue temps are 400. The coals glow bright and flame up when I open the stat and bypass even before I crack the door. Maybe I just need to spend more time with the door cracked? This seems to ignite more fuel and create more smoke and I'm a little leary of the hot cat sitting in front of that cracked door with cold air rushing in.


----------



## Rich2343

BKVP said:


> Or they live in a warmer climate, use different density fuel, have different RValues, more draft, clean out their stoves more often to hold more fuel, run fans, load only larger rounds not split.....etc....etc....


Mote Draft.... This will improve heat. Will this improve burn times.?


----------



## shoot-straight

Rich2343 said:


> Mote Draft.... This will improve heat. Will this improve burn times.?



Not in my Ashford! I have mega draft. 25' or so of insulated liner on a hill with no trees and the wind jowls. I actually have a turn damper on mine to use when its super cold and have lots of wind. My burns are short in comparison to others.


----------



## Rich2343

shoot-straight said:


> Not in my Ashford! I have mega draft. 25' or so of insulated liner on a hill with no trees and the wind jowls. I actually have a turn damper on mine to use when its super cold and have lots of wind. My burns are short in comparison to others.


Shoot-straight 
              I appricate the insight.


----------



## shoot-straight

Rich2343 said:


> Shoot-straight
> I appricate the insight.



Again like bkvp said, every setup is different even of they are the same. If that makes sense.


----------



## Quentin2

Tarzan, u can look at my pic on the previous page I got a condor with temps and active/inactive line.  I thought it was proportion to the non numbered units.

High beam, in warmer weather sometimes I get some spillage.  I am a fan of cranking heat bypassing and cracking door for 5 Mississippis.  I just assume the bypass is doing just that bypassing.

Disclaimer:  your setup is probably different, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## Rich2343

shoot-straight said:


> Again like bkvp said, every setup is different even of they are the same. If that makes sense.


Yes except It's a machine. 400* stove top is 400* stove top .Out in a field or inside a meat locker. My thought is the differances would be a lot closer not so erratic.


shoot-straight said:


> Again like bkvp said, every setup is different even of they are the same. If that makes sense.


----------



## tarzan

Rich2343 said:


> Yes except It's a machine. 400* stove top is 400* stove top .Out in a field or inside a meat locker. My thought is the differances would be a lot closer not so erratic.



Not really a machine. Just a big steel box with a few moving parts. 

Think of it this way, we could trade stoves and leave everything else as is. I would go on getting the same results I get and you yours.


----------



## Dieselhead

BKVP said:


> Or they live in a warmer climate, use different density fuel, have different RValues, more draft, clean out their stoves more often to hold more fuel, run fans, load only larger rounds not split.....etc....etc....


Southern New England, 15% m/c mixed hardwood, 2x6 construction, 2x10 ceiling joists 2010 construction with plenty of r-value, 26' flue, stove with 1" ash, pretty decent size splits, keep guessing?


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead said:


> Loaded as full as I can get it my King burns about the same as your princess, a load will last about 14 hrs. Stat around 2. I aim for 500° stovetop which is what is needed to keep the house at 70. I have no idea where these 24-40 hr reports of keeping the house warm comes from unless they live in a 500sqft super insulated house and run the stat pretty low.





Dieselhead said:


> Southern New England, 15% m/c mixed hardwood, 2x6 construction, 2x10 ceiling joists 2010 construction with plenty of r-value, 26' flue, stove with 1" ash, pretty decent size splits, keep guessing?



How big is the place?  I imagine it must be large if a 500* SST is required to maintain a 70* interior temp.

My Princess with around a 300* SST will maintain interior temps with temps in the upper 20's.  Right now it is 26* outside and I'm burning down coals from my morning load(7:30am, currently 10:2x) the SST is 370ish and I added a degree or two into the house since I started burning the coals down.  If I needed to maintain a 500* SST to maintain heat in here my Princess burn times would be reduced significantly.  I'm heating just shy of 2K in south eastern Michigan in a house built in the early 1980's so the construction/insulation sucks.  

Edit:  I have no idea how I typed SST for stove top temp for this entire post!    I must've been sleeping when I typed it out.


----------



## Dieselhead

rdust said:


> How big is the place?  I imagine it must be large if a 500* SST is required to maintain a 70* interior temp.
> 
> My Princess with around a 300* SST will maintain interior temps with temps in the upper 20's.  Right now it is 26* outside and I'm burning down coals from my morning load(7:30am, currently 10:2x) the SST is 370ish and I added a degree or two into the house since I started burning the coals down.  If I needed to maintain a 500* SST to maintain heat in here my Princess burn times would be reduced significantly.  I'm heating just shy of 2K in south eastern Michigan in a house built in the early 1980's so the construction/insulation sucks.


Yes I'm 2600 wide open floor plan. Mind you temps are 30-40's here. I just need to make people aware not even close to everyone will see 20+ hr burn times, burn times meaning useable heat. Sure 30 hrs down the road I can have enough coals to get another load going, but the sure as chit won't heat my home


----------



## claybe

BKVP, why do the Freestanders have a "normal" zone and the inserts don't have a normal zone?  Is "normal" about half way in between all the way open and all the way closed?  If so, I have been running this thing wrong!


----------



## rdust

Dieselhead said:


> Yes I'm 2600 wide open floor plan. Mind you temps are 30-40's here. I just need to make people aware not even close to everyone will see 20+ hr burn times, burn times meaning useable heat. Sure 30 hrs down the road I can have enough coals to get another load going, but the sure as chit won't heat my home



True, this is why usable heat is different for everyone.  Threads like this one provide plenty of real world results so perspective buyers can get a good idea of what to expect.  If I had a King in my place I have no doubt I would get 24 hour burns(usable heat) darn near all winter long.


----------



## Quentin2

I agree rdust, 500 top seems pretty high to maintain throughout the burn.  

Diesel head, you got similarities with me, king, new construction.  Your burning hardwood me soft.  I just got home, I loaded 20 hours ago my top is 350 my cat 650.  Stove room is 77, upstairs is 72 in center of house, far extremities probably 69.  It's 29 outside.  Total 2850 to heat.  I had the blowers on all the way low, stat at bottom of normal 1.5.

It is peculiar that your not getting more similar results.  26 and 2800 is a lot for a stove to heat.  You say open floor plan, do you have massive vaulted ceilings and lots of windows?  I have some vaults upstairs but it's only 10'6" guessing.  I could see if you had 15'+ of ceiling in big rooms that your heating needs would be greatly increased.

I don't know what the construction standards, differences and similarities are between our towns.  I do know my home is five star energy rated, whatever that means.  I also spent a bit of money on insulated cellular shades on every window in my home minus bedrooms.  These make a huge difference in draft from windows.  I get terrible wind routinely, it's blowing right now.


----------



## tarzan

Another thing to keep in mind is most of us who have a King or Princess place our stove top thermometers on the steel over or just aft the cat. 

When we see for instance, 500* stove top provided by a smoldering fuel load and an active, glowing cat it's not the same as 500* with visible flames and a less active, not glowing cat.


While the temps may register the same on the stove top, the small cat just under the stove top can not heat as much surface area as does the load of wood in the fire box.

Hope I put that in a way that makes sense!


----------



## Dieselhead

Quentin2 said:


> I agree rdust, 500 top seems pretty high to maintain throughout the burn.
> 
> Diesel head, you got similarities with me, king, new construction.  Your burning hardwood me soft.  I just got home, I loaded 20 hours ago my top is 350 my cat 650.  Stove room is 77, upstairs is 72 in center of house, far extremities probably 69.  It's 29 outside.  Total 2850 to heat.  I had the blowers on all the way low, stat at bottom of normal 1.5.
> 
> It is peculiar that your not getting more similar results.  26 and 2800 is a lot for a stove to heat.  You say open floor plan, do you have massive vaulted ceilings and lots of windows?  I have some vaults upstairs but it's only 10'6" guessing.  I could see if you had 15'+ of ceiling in big rooms that your heating needs would be greatly increased.
> 
> I don't know what the construction standards, differences and similarities are between our towns.  I do know my home is five star energy rated, whatever that means.  I also spent a bit of money on insulated cellular shades on every window in my home minus bedrooms.  These make a huge difference in draft from windows.  I get terrible wind routinely, it's blowing right now.


 low e windows and all that jazz, R21 walls, r-30something cielings. Yes to the stove room being a "great room" with tall ceilings, overhead loft. temp is within 1° 1st floor to 2nd floor. it convects unbelieveably.


----------



## MMCM(SS)USNRet

Yesterday I took the plunge and did the hour long hi temp burn for the first time.  I reached and maintained 725dF STT and the cat probe was at 6 o'clock...waaaay hot.  Before did this I went back to page 9 of this thread and read forward to refresh my memory of the consensus reached by all who contributed to that particular discussion and convinced myself I was doing the right thing.  Unfortunately, I didn't re-read far enough forward to reach the discussion about overheating the cat on page 15 until last night.  I pulled the probe this morning to see if the "zero" point had drifted...it had not.  I keep it set to the first tick mark at the bottom of the "Inactive" band at room temp.  Looking at the probe face comparison photo on page 20 I was running way above 2000dF cat temp.  I've had it pegged like that briefly during the 30 minute hot-burn-after-loading procedure also, but I hadn't maintained it that high as long as I did yesterday.

There are many opinions here about how to operate this stove, with everyone making valid cases for their particular circumstances.  The weekly hour-long WOT burn may not be as pertinent to hardwood users as it is to those of us who aren't so fortunate.  The wood available to me is beetle-killed lodgepole pine.  When the tree gets infected it tries to maximize pitch production to flush out the eggs, so the worst-infected wood has dried sap running down the sides.  Some of that gets dislodged by handling and processing, but I'd wager there isn't much wood fuel out there that generates more creosote.  Over the five years of owning this stove it's been interesting trying to overcome that particular challenge.  I was told by my vendor and by BK customer service several years ago that I should just load it and return the thermostat to the previous setting as soon as the new load caught, that there was no real need for burning it hot as long as the fire was "lively" before I turned the stat down.  I was cleaning the stack annually and finding varying amounts of creosote, from quite a bit to a LOT (how's that for talking technical?).  I ended up I having a small chimney fire last year (caught it very quickly, no damage to home or Selkirk chimney), so I'm now REALLY paranoid about creosote buildup.  Thanks to this thread I've become religious about burning WOT after every load and I'm checking my stack once a month until I have a reliable reference for how well that is controlling the buildup.  I think the weekly hour-long hot burn, never mentioned in the manual but prescribed here by BKVP, will help, but I don't want to damage the stove.  What I want is to be able to burn all season without having to sweep.  I realize that may not be achievable, particularly in a season like this with so much shoulder weather.

So...how bad did I screw up burning that hot that long?

Edit:  Now that my brain is fully engaged on this point I wonder how much effect this is having on the creosote in the stack.  The original postings were discussing how to clean up the firebox.


----------



## BKVP

You and your stove are going to be just fine....Merry Christmas.


----------



## Quentin2

If your worried about it getting too hot at an hour wot, why not just go 30 or 40 min.  If bkvp isn't worried I wouldn't be.  I will try to do a 15 or 20 min wot every few days or so.  My wood piles too precious to me, don't like to waste it.  Good luck


----------



## Quentin2

i guess 500 stt might not be that unrealistic to maintain.  Not working today so went down and took this photo at 12 hours into burn.



I should say I did not look at it any other time then startup and now at 12 hours.  This past week at 20 hours when I get home from work it's been consistent around 300 stt and 600ish cat.
Happy holidays

Edit: set at 1.5 or bottom of normal, blowers on low


----------



## MMCM(SS)USNRet

Merry Christmas to you, Chris.  Would you still recommend that I repeat this weekly or should I adjust the variables (fuel load, split size, stat setting, et al) to achieve a lower stt or cat temp?  Do you have a target stt in mind  (the cat appears to have a mind of it's own based on amount of smoke being generated)?  Is this doing anything toward my goal of minimizing creosote buildup in 10' of double-wall stovepipe and 9' of triple wall chimney or is it only effective in keeping the firebox cleaner?  And, yes, I know i'm overthinking this but I used to operate nuclear power plants so I can't help it without intervention.


----------



## BKVP

mmcmssusnret said:


> Merry Christmas to you, Chris.  Would you still recommend that I repeat this weekly or should I adjust the variables (fuel load, split size, stat setting, et al) to achieve a lower stt or cat temp?  Do you have a target stt in mind  (the cat appears to have a mind of it's own based on amount of smoke being generated)?  Is this doing anything toward my goal of minimizing creosote buildup in 10' of double-wall stovepipe and 9' of triple wall chimney or is it only effective in keeping the firebox cleaner?  And, yes, I know i'm overthinking this but I used to operate nuclear power plants so I can't help it without intervention.




The weekly high burn is just to keep down build up during the season.  If you look back to the first time I mentioned it, it was during the shoulder season when so many folks were looking to get big long burns due to mild weather.  With most of the moisture in the fuel being dealt with in the first few hours, some folks load a full load and then just run off or go to bed.  That can result in sauna like conditions, regardless of which brand of stove or technology is  being used.

Well, in many places it has cooled off and running the stoves hotter will help with this as well.  You can just look into the left rear and right rear corners and look to see if there is too much build up.

As for cats, they have a mind of their own. (Yes gas flow/release can generate some amazing temps even when there is little or no fuel in the stove.)

I have had temps in excess of 1400F with as little as 1lb of fuel...it was heavily charred, about the size of a softball and the cat was hovering around 575, tail end of long burn.  I opened the door, whacked the chunk of wood and closed the door.  The cat just took off and it was amazing how fast it climbed to 1400F.

Run your stove where the cat stays active (with the fans off as air movement can give a false reading on ALL THE CONDAR thermometers as the spring under them gets hit by the fan air movement) and also keeps you comfortable.

Merry Christmas!


----------



## claybe

Chris, you must be on Christmas vacation!!  Merry Christmas and happy hunting!


----------



## Rossco

Quentin2 said:


> Pretty warm here, 29 deg.  It still trips me out I can heat this whole house with one stove for 24 hours on mostly cottonwood and a couple sticks of birch.  When I had my builder install a chimney I was kinda pissed initially when I went stove shopping and 95% of stoves were 6".  I knew zero about stoves and chimneys and thought the builder kinda screwed me with the 8" pipe.  I was planning on installing a stove to have some fires on weekends and emergencies only.  Two years later I'm darn near off of gas heat and real glad he "screwed" me with the 8".  (Wow that sounds bad)
> 
> How's the winter in bc and what town you by?  I would love to go snow machining down there.



Winter is so hit and miss at the moment. The -32C we encountered recently are just bad memory's now. The 30" of snow that fell over night has all but gone. The new year is when the cold will bite back.

I live in the East Kootnay region. South East. It's normally a great place for sledding but not at the moment.

8" pipe would have been my instal preference, if you're a serious burner and have a million square miles of wood like we have here. 

I sometimes have to chuckle at some of the recommendations in this thread. Burn WOT for 1 hour? I don't have time to babysit this stove, I woke up this morning late for work. So only threw a few splits in to keep it going until the wife gets up (Left it on 1.5, threw by-pass, opened door, threw wood in, closed door & By-pass, turned fans back on) The wifes got a 2 yr old and a 3 month old baby to 'Babysit'

You don't need to faff around if you have dry wood.


----------



## NinjaTech

Right now I'm burning these little end trimmings. SWMBO's sisters fiance took down some dead trees on their property a while back and cut and split all of it. They cut if to length for their fireplace and were giving away a bunch for free, but the way they cut it its about 2 inches too long to fit in the stove. Had to trim about two cords of splits to get them to fit so I have this giant pile of end trimmings I have been burning the last few days. Talk about the cat going crazy with all that surface area.


----------



## Shane Collins

Still loving my Ashford.  I ordered the fan kit today.  It's running fine without but I hear good things about them and it should even out the temps a little.

Now the colder weather has set in I'm probably averaging 16-18 hour burns depending on my wife!  She likes it a fair bit hotter than me.  If it was just me I could be pushing 20 hour burns.  Really happy with the stove.  I'm burning half the amount of wood I used to.  Almost done with my first cord.  Seem to be averaging about 1/6 a cord a week.  I usually load at night at 10ish. The following day at around 4pm I throw 3-4 splits on and turn it a little higher.  It's nice to have the flames and my wife enjoys the extra heat.  That'll keep us going to about 10ish when I load it full.  Sure beats last winter loading the stove every 3-4 hours and waking up to a cold house and stove.

I'm going to split my wood larger now.  How big do you usually split?  I only had about 9 months to season the wood I'm burning so I split everything to about 4 inches so it would season faster.  I found a few larger pieces for overnight burns and it seems to push the burns a little longer.

Every time my in-laws are over they admire the stove.  I don't think it'll be long before they get a Ashford 20.


----------



## tarzan

Shane. I hope you like the fan. For us here at my house the fan is like the stoves super charger. 

As for split size, 6" to 8" with a few largish rounds mixed in has been working fine for me. But of course, your mileage may vary.


----------



## Edav

I am getting spillage from my princess during every reload that I need to restart the fire or attempt to do a 'burn off'

Even when getting smaller logs and kindling super hot with a lot of flames, I am getting spillage while loading the big stuff.

I have 15 foot from top of stove to the chimney cap, straight.

Would putting more footage on top of the chimney do anything to help this? It is becoming unbearable with the lingering smell. I do not want a cabin.

I am doing everything right. Bypass open, t-stat on 3, opening door slowly, getting a HOT burn going before reloading fully.

Thanks for any help!


----------



## Rossco

Edav said:


> I am getting spillage from my princess during every reload that I need to restart the fire or attempt to do a 'burn off'
> 
> Even when getting smaller logs and kindling super hot with a lot of flames, I am getting spillage while loading the big stuff.
> 
> I have 15 foot from top of stove to the chimney cap, straight.
> 
> Would putting more footage on top of the chimney do anything to help this? It is becoming unbearable with the lingering smell. I do not want a cabin.
> 
> I am doing everything right. Bypass open, t-stat on 3, opening door slowly, getting a HOT burn going before reloading fully.
> 
> Thanks for any help!



You got an OAK?

Maybe a negative pressure problem.


----------



## aansorge

OAK?  That is a good question, Rossco.

I've heard blaze kings like some pipe.  15 ft is on the short end of acceptable.  I'd add three more feet and I bet that will help a lot.  I have 25 ft on my King and can only get a little smoke if I whip the door open super quick.


----------



## Edav

No OAK. I didn't know that it helped with negative pressure? I was ok with using warm air for combustion and I didn't really like idea of drilling hole through wall.

I think I will try to add more pipe, if that doesn't work, I will explore the OAK. Thanks guys.


----------



## kennyp2339

My stack is about 20ft, I get a little spillage if a rush opening the door to, but if I slowly open it no problems at all, add the 3 ft, it will help


----------



## Highbeam

Edav said:


> No OAK. I didn't know that it helped with negative pressure? I was ok with using warm air for combustion and I didn't really like idea of drilling hole through wall.
> 
> I think I will try to add more pipe, if that doesn't work, I will explore the OAK. Thanks guys.



If you're willing to add more pipe, that seems to help most folks. To replicate the effect of oak on draft open an outside door near the stove. That will defeat any negative pressure inside the house.


----------



## Highbeam

For some reason, I am now able to run on lower stat settings! This is great since we are in a weird warm spell. I am happy to run on the very bottom edge of normal with zero emissions visible.


----------



## tarzan

Highbeam said:


> For some reason, I am now able to run on lower stat settings! This is great since we are in a weird warm spell. I am happy to run on the very bottom edge of normal with zero emissions visible.



Any ideas on what may have changed, different?


----------



## Shane Collins

I've only ever had spillage if I open the door too fast.  If I open it slowly as the manual says I never get any.


----------



## Ashful

BrotherBart said:


> So glad we let this BK thread run every year. 900 posts would be a Mods nightmare in individual threads,


Just clicked into this one, and landed here.  Note at bottom of page says "324 more posts in this thread."  Lol


----------



## BrotherBart

Fascinating isn't it? We maintain a site to help people with problems with their heaters, and what thread is the longest in the history of the joint. By orders of magnitude.


----------



## rdust

Edav said:


> I am getting spillage from my princess during every reload that I need to restart the fire or attempt to do a 'burn off'
> 
> Even when getting smaller logs and kindling super hot with a lot of flames, I am getting spillage while loading the big stuff.
> 
> I have 15 foot from top of stove to the chimney cap, straight.
> 
> Would putting more footage on top of the chimney do anything to help this? It is becoming unbearable with the lingering smell. I do not want a cabin.
> 
> I am doing everything right. Bypass open, t-stat on 3, opening door slowly, getting a HOT burn going before reloading fully.
> 
> Thanks for any help!




Are you having issues reloading on coals or reloading when you have active flames?  Loading on coals should reduce the amount of smoke spillage.

I used to have issues with my Princess until I swapped out a 90* elbow for 2 45's.  What helped me was to open the bypass, turn the t-stat up for a bit to warm the chimney, when I opened the door I closed the t-stat to the 12 o'clock position.  This way when you open the door most of the air is getting pulled into the stove through the door.  I found with the door open and the t-stat on 3 the air when it entered the stove(enters top front) it would actually push the smoke into the room.  Having the t-stat closed greatly reduced any spillage I was getting.  Also try opening a window or door near the stove.


----------



## Highbeam

tarzan said:


> Any ideas on what may have changed, different?



It could be anything from a door leak to a dry pocket in the stacks. Only slightly lower than before, my old low setting was the o in normal. A small victory but I'll take it.


----------



## Rossco

Edav said:


> No OAK. I didn't know that it helped with negative pressure? I was ok with using warm air for combustion and I didn't really like idea of drilling hole through wall.
> 
> I think I will try to add more pipe, if that doesn't work, I will explore the OAK. Thanks guys.



More pipe will probably do the trick.

The OAK helps if you have a tight house. The stove will suck interior air in and expell it up the chimney. I get out gas/smoke if I don't open a window during reload.

I also get cold air infiltration in the living area because of the pressure difference outside.

Next thing on my list is to hook the OAK up. I have it but the dealer said it didn't matter on a leaky house so i dry walled over it, Well my house ain't that leaky.


----------



## Siray13

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for awhile.  Replaced my Whitfield pellet insert with a BK Ultra.  I've had it burning for about 10 days now and absolutely love it.  This is my first wood stove so I don't have anything to compare it to.  My furnace has not had to start once and have not had to start a second fire!   Love this stove!   Feel like I finally have some control over my heat bill.  I have been in the house for 6 years and every winter I have wanted to move because the house is so drafty.   Scrounged up 6 cords on craigslist over the summer so it feels good to finally have it pay off.  

Only question I have is that the manual does not seem to indicate if you need to "push" the bypass down.  I know when to open and close, but I have also been pushing it down the last inch to secure it.  I would assume this is the proper way to operate the bypass?


----------



## BKVP

Siray13 said:


> Hi everyone, I've been lurking for awhile.  Replaced my Whitfield pellet insert with a BK Ultra.  I've had it burning for about 10 days now and absolutely love it.  This is my first wood stove so I don't have anything to compare it to.  My furnace has not had to start once and have not had to start a second fire!   Love this stove!   Feel like I finally have some control over my heat bill.  I have been in the house for 6 years and every winter I have wanted to move because the house is so drafty.   Scrounged up 6 cords on craigslist over the summer so it feels good to finally have it pay off.
> 
> Only question I have is that the manual does not seem to indicate if you need to "push" the bypass down.  I know when to open and close, but I have also been pushing it down the last inch to secure it.  I would assume this is the proper way to operate the bypass?


yes and enjoy the savings!


----------



## Quentin2

Welcome siray, I like your ominous black glass bk pic.  No need to be ashamed of the black glass.  As for the bypass lever mine just kinda clunks shut when I wheel the handle over, there's a little more slop to the handle but I don't think anything more is done past the initial clunk sound.  Maybe someone else has a different opinion.

A lot of wood geeks around here gonna want to know how big your house, pipe and chimney stats, what type of wood you scrounged, burn times and of course pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## Poindexter

Is spring in the air?  I am sure the sun was out a little longer today.

We finally got to -20dF (briefly) for the first time this season in the last couple days.

My Ashford30 is just about boringly dependable, though I am chewing through some wood.  I'm into "average random" out of the shed and into the stove, about 75% birch and 25% spruce.  I brought the last of my third cord into the garage Satruday afternoon, about a face cord into my indoor ready rack in the garage.  The garage rack is about half empty already in 48, maybe 55 hours.  I am pretty much running on 3/3, wide open Tstat for an hour or two and then dropping back to 1.5-2ish for the rest of the burn.  I am sticking with 12 hour reloads (I got a job and I have to sleep at night), using a bit of kindling to help the coals on the reloads.  
I am keeping a little spruce for the spring shoulder and except for two experimental burns I haven't touched my three year old big birch splits yet.

Enough coals left that I am not splitting kindling, just pulling loose pieces off the splits I am about to load into the stove anyway.

This time, when I finish the third cord I am not going to let the stove get cold to clean the flue, I am just going to tear on through a fourth cord.  After four cords I'll peek without even getting my chimney brush out and think about brushing the chimney again after cord number five or number six.  Looking like a seven to eight cord winter again, but the wife is in shorts and a Tshirt.

Winter solstice, it's astern.  Yay!!  Any of y'all going trekking somewhere new this summer?  I want to take a shot at the Little Delta river in my river boat, ASAP after the ice goes out.


----------



## kennyp2339

I love the winter solstice, not because of the winter itself, but because it the signal that the days loosing day light have hit rock bottom and now we are on the upward trend of getting more day light back. Certainly nothing like what you guys experience in Alaska but those extra couple hours I get in NJ make a huge difference after work.


----------



## turbojoe

BKVP said:


> As for cats, they have a mind of their own. (Yes gas flow/release can generate some amazing temps even when there is little or no fuel in the stove.)
> 
> I have had temps in excess of 1400F with as little as 1lb of fuel...it was heavily charred, about the size of a softball and the cat was hovering around 575, tail end of long burn.  I opened the door, whacked the chunk of wood and closed the door.  The cat just took off and it was amazing how fast it climbed to 1400F.
> 
> Run your stove where the cat stays active (with the fans off as air movement can give a false reading on ALL THE CONDAR thermometers as the spring under them gets hit by the fan air movement) and also keeps you comfortable.
> 
> Merry Christmas!


 
Crazy Cats 
Notice the 25C drop in cat temp when presented with a rich condition.
A very small amount of air is injected pre cat for .4 seconds to acheve a 100C temp spike in the cat bed. This all happened in less than 1/2 a second.... Cool stuff 

Merry Christmas Chris


----------



## BKVP

turbojoe said:


> View attachment 148513
> 
> 
> Crazy Cats
> Notice the 25C drop in cat temp when presented with a rich condition.
> A very small amount of air is injected pre cat for .4 seconds to acheve a 100C temp spike in the cat bed. This all happened in less than 1/2 a second.... Cool stuff
> 
> Merry Christmas Chris


Lots of folks think performance profiles in cats are predictable and repeatable application to application.  Simply change the thickness of the cat, increase residence time and you'll find yet another surprise!  

Merry Christmas.


----------



## Rich2343

aansorge said:


> OAK?  That is a good question, Rossco.
> 
> I've heard blaze kings like some pipe.  15 ft is on the short end of acceptable.  I'd add three more feet and I bet that will help a lot.  I have 25 ft on my King and can only get a little smoke if I whip the door open super quick.


I agree 2 or 4 ft more should solve your smoke issue.


----------



## turbojoe

Sorry to butt in, this caught my eye. I am at 12' with my Princess. Is 15' the min. ?? Could have swore the dealer said 12'... I would imagine elevation and what not makes this different.


----------



## Rich2343

turbojoe said:


> Sorry to butt in, this caught my eye. I am at 12' with my Princess. Is 15' the min. ?? Could have swore the dealer said 12'... I would imagine elevation and what not makes this different.


My dealer told me 12 also somewhere they changed it. However I'm thinking on adding more. Just have to play..


----------



## turbojoe

Rich2343 said:


> My dealer told me 12 also somewhere they changed it. However I'm thinking on adding more. Just have to play..


 Let us know how that works out.
Mine has been fine at 12' so far. I do get a slight amount of spillage if i open the door too fast. If i take my time it's fine.


----------



## Rich2343

turbojoe said:


> Let us know how that works out.
> Mine has been fine at 12' so far. I do get a slight amount of spillage if i open the door too fast. If i take my time it's fine.


Sure will Turbojoe . Chris  ( BKVP) suggested to me to add 2 ft or so to my 13 ft. He also says it will help the low burns  Well I added 4 ft and noticed a higher heat output at the same settings. So my thinking is if 4 is good 2 or 4 for more will be better. I'm looking to get solid 15 hrs of burn time at 500*[/quote]


----------



## BKVP

Rich2343 said:


> Sure will Turbojoe . Chris  ( BKVP) suggested to me to add 2 ft or so to my 13 ft. He also says it will help the low burns  Well I added 4 ft and noticed a higher heat output at the same settings. So my thinking is if 4 is good 2 or 4 for more will be better. I'm looking to get solid 15 hrs of burn time at 500*


[/quote]
There is a point of diminishing return....on your length investment. Glad it worked!


----------



## turbojoe

Going to stick with 12' for now. Mine is in a Manufactured home. It's already 8' above the roof...lol, The park manager already sent us a notice as to why our stack is twice as high as everyone elses :0  I typed a nice reply stating high efficency stoves require a 12' stack. He stopped by to tell me BS, take down 4ft. This is going to be fun.
They have no idea i am moving it to my lake lot in the spring...hehe, now i have the rest of winter to mess with them.
If the wife would let me, i would add another 4' to pi$$ em off


----------



## BKVP

Now that's investment worthy.  Actually, we probably do not need people to think of us wood burners as bad people.  So tell him you work in a secret program for the US Government and it's not a chimney but rather a missile silo to protect all of you.


----------



## turbojoe

I agree 100% about sending out a positive image as a wood burner. I'm the only one in the park that doesn't belch out smoke. I'll tell em it's the extra 4' 
Missle silo is a dam good comeback though...lol


----------



## Rich2343

turbojoe said:


> I agree 100% about sending out a positive image as a wood burner. I'm the only one in the park that doesn't belch out smoke. I'll tell em it's the extra 4'
> Missle silo is a dam good comeback though...lol


Tubojoe I also live in a park and was ask the same question. He was somewhat satisfied.Turbojoe the Graf you have is very inerresting how are you getting your measurements.? Is it something the average person can obtain .?


----------



## Siray13

Quentin2 said:


> Welcome siray, I like your ominous black glass bk pic.  No need to be ashamed of the black glass.  As for the bypass lever mine just kinda clunks shut when I wheel the handle over, there's a little more slop to the handle but I don't think anything more is done past the initial clunk sound.  Maybe someone else has a different opinion.
> 
> A lot of wood geeks around here gonna want to know how big your house, pipe and chimney stats, what type of wood you scrounged, burn times and of course pics or it didn't happen.



My house is a 1500 sq ft ranch.  I don't have a finished basement but the temps seem to be about 10 degrees below the upstairs with the stove running.  My ranch is completely open on the first floor so the heat radiates nicely.  I placed the stove in front of the old fireplace, double wall dvl 24" then  90 degrees into the masonry wall and up through the old chimney with a stainless liner.  I have 13 ft  might add more this summer. 

I have a lot of oak, but also elm, walnut, maple, and some pine.  I would take whatever was free or farmers looking for tree lines cleared.   Most of what I am burning is 15% mc. 

I have been getting 16 to 24 hours depending on how much ash is in the box and how careful I am with stacking the reloads.  This is with about 30 degrees outside so I'm sure it will go down as it gets colder. This keeps my house anywhere between 69 and 73. I don't have the blower kit yet, I love not hearing anything and it seems to be keeping the house comfortable.  The stove top is about 425 to 450 for these burn times and the setting is on the high end of "normal". My wife was very skeptical of all the wood scrounging and the large investment for the stove, but she spends all of her time next to it now and is very satisfied.    I will load some pictures in a bit on the computer because my ipad can't seem to figure it out.   Thanks!


----------



## turbojoe

Rich2343 said:


> Tubojoe I also live in a park and was ask the same question. He was somewhat satisfied.Turbojoe the Graf you have is very inerresting how are you getting your measurements.? Is it something the average joe can obtain .?


 
That would be a cool graph of a stove with 4 T/C's hooked up.
I do Catalyst testing for a living. That was a light off study on 4 Auto Cats. Was just showing how fast temps rise when Oxygen is introduced to a Cat in a rich state and hot.
aka. Exotherm. That graph is a very mild temp bump, .4 seconds of air injected. Should have seen the ones the tech typed in 4 seconds instead of .4.. NUKED...lol
Keep in mind i am running them to and sometimes beyond the edge for testing reasons. Today’s Catalyst should not be feared at all, they are very robust.
I hope to have a few temp profiles of the ol BK running with an electronic air automation system soon. It's already an awesome stove. Just playing with some different control strategies.
Once the wife gives in I’m putting a Lambda sensor in it, i am dying to know the air/fuel profile of a burn cycle.
Turbo install will be next year.. 

Joe


----------



## Rich2343

Siray13 said:


> My house is a 1500 sq ft ranch.  I don't have a finished basement but the temps seem to be about 10 degrees below the upstairs with the stove running.  My ranch is completely open on the first floor so the heat radiates nicely.  I placed the stove in front of the old fireplace, double wall dvl 24" then  90 degrees into the masonry wall and up through the old chimney with a stainless liner.  I have 13 ft  might add more this summer.
> 
> I have a lot of oak, but also elm, walnut, maple, and some pine.  I would take whatever was free or farmers looking for tree lines cleared.   Most of what I am burning is 15% mc.
> 
> I have been getting 16 to 24 hours depending on how much ash is in the box and how careful I am with stacking the reloads.  This is with about 30 degrees outside so I'm sure it will go down as it gets colder. This keeps my house anywhere between 69 and 73. I don't have the blower kit yet, I love not hearing anything and it seems to be keeping the house comfortable.  The stove top is about 425 to 450 for these burn times and the setting is on the high end of "normal". My wife was very skeptical of all the wood scrounging and the large investment for the stove, but she spends all of her time next to it now and is very satisfied.    I will load some pictures in a bit on the computer because my ipad can't seem to figure it out.   Thanks!


Siray13 do your burn times go up or down with more ash in the bottom of the stove.?


----------



## BKVP

You may wish to try only preheated air into the cat.  Cold air seems to cause thermal degradation to cooderite and mulite.  What are the cars guys using?  I suppose DuraFoil stainless substrates. 



turbojoe said:


> That would be a cool graph of a stove with 4 T/C's hooked up.
> I do Catalyst testing for a living. That was a light off study on 4 Auto Cats. Was just showing how fast temps rise when Oxygen is introduced to a Cat in a rich state and hot.
> aka. Exotherm. That graph is a very mild temp bump, .4 seconds of air injected. Should have seen the ones the tech typed in 4 seconds instead of .4.. NUKED...lol
> Keep in mind i am running them to and sometimes beyond the edge for testing reasons. Today’s Catalyst should not be feared at all, they are very robust.
> I hope to have a few temp profiles of the ol BK running with an electronic air automation system soon. It's already an awesome stove. Just playing with some different control strategies.
> Once the wife gives in I’m putting a Lambda sensor in it, i am dying to know the air/fuel profile of a burn cycle.
> Turbo install will be next year..
> 
> Joe


----------



## turbojoe

Agree, cold air into most all Ceramic Substrates = bad news. We have trending away from stainless cats except some High Flow applications.


----------



## Siray13

Rich2343 said:


> Siray13 do your burn times go up or down with more ash in the bottom of the stove.?



I haven't figured that part out yet.  I know for sure just the volume of ash prevents me from getting an extra 3-4 splits in when it's high.  I'm just not sure how the ash impacts the efficiency yet.


----------



## NinjaTech

Got a question for BKVP, just curious about the actual size of the insert firebox. On the website it says 2.54 on one page, on the next 2.85.


----------



## Quentin2

Was out of town for a couple days so I let the stove go cold.  Full tuneup, swept chimney from roof shoveled ash and lifted the pipe off of stove so I can get that creosote that falls behind bypass up against cat.  Heres a pic of my ash in a five gallon bucket about six weeks non stop burning, spruce, birch and cottonwood.

The other shows what can't be removed unless you pull the pipe.  I haven't pulled the pipe to get that last bit but one other time last year.  I'm pretty sure that everything you see in the pic is from this brushing I just did.  That tells me that the other times I brushed but didn't remove the pipe that the light creosote gets burned up the flue or at a minimum blown away from cat.  I usually just reach my hand up there and brush everything down with bypass up.

Anyways, it feels good to have everything clean, gained 5" or so of depth in the box, she's chocked full and idling along for another 20+ hours I reckon.


----------



## firefighterjake

Quentin2 said:


> Was out of town for a couple days so I let the stove go cold.  Full tuneup, swept chimney from roof shoveled ash and lifted the pipe off of stove so I can get that creosote that falls behind bypass up against cat.  Heres a pic of my ash in a five gallon bucket about six weeks non stop burning, spruce, birch and cottonwood.
> 
> The other shows what can't be removed unless you pull the pipe.  I haven't pulled the pipe to get that last bit but one other time last year.  I'm pretty sure that everything you see in the pic is from this brushing I just did.  That tells me that the other times I brushed but didn't remove the pipe that the light creosote gets burned up the flue or at a minimum blown away from cat.  I usually just reach my hand up there and brush everything down with bypass up.
> 
> Anyways, it feels good to have everything clean, gained 5" or so of depth in the box, she's chocked full and idling along for another 20+ hours I reckon.
> View attachment 148708
> 
> View attachment 148709



Dumb question . . . and pretty sure I know your answer . . . but I've got to ask anyways since hot coals can be buried in ash and still remain hot for a long, long time . . . and I've seen this before . . . so . . .

I assume that the plastic bucket is used for only a very, very short time . . . as in . . . take ash out and dump it outside in a covered metal can or some other place where any errant coals will not ignite combustibles?

Again . . . I only ask . . . or maybe it's more of a statement of advice to newbies posed as a question . . . since some folks may not realize that putting ash into plastic buckets, cardboard boxes, plastic bags, etc. is not always a good idea.


----------



## Quentin2

The ashes were dumped in my burn barrel immediately.  I knew better than to post a pic of unsafe burning habits.  Hopefully now the pic and your response can be a reminder to the people looking through this thread about proper ash removal.


----------



## privatejoker75

Siray13 said:


> I haven't figured that part out yet.  I know for sure just the volume of ash prevents me from getting an extra 3-4 splits in when it's high.  I'm just not sure how the ash impacts the efficiency yet.



I have noticed that if i leave less than an inch of ash in the bottom, i get a lot of smoke when i open the door.  So these days i try to keep the ash about level with the bottom of the door opening and it seems to work a lot better.  I'm assuming the instruction manual says how much to leave in there but mine disappeared


----------



## Edav

Well I was an idiot today and left the front door open during a reload to get it nice and hot before engaging the cat.

It got pretty hot and I smelled that "break in" paint smell and checked the stove. The chimney collar on top of the stove was red hot. When I reloaded, the pieces on the top caught fire first and were roaring pretty good.

I quickly shut door, turned down thermostat, and engaged cat and the glow went away within seconds.

Do you think I damaged the bypass door/latch or anything near that hot stove collar?


----------



## kennyp2339

I had the same thing happen Saturday night, I was lucky and didnt damage anything, the cat seems fine, I was more worried at the time that I damaged the door gasket, but everything leveled off fairly fast and now the stove 2 days later is acting like nothing ever happened


----------



## kennyp2339

It's 23 deg out today, my coldest day since installing the princess, I've been just burning ash, cherry, and a little maple, this afternoon I threw in a load of red oak, this stove is simply amazing, oak is its favorite, I've had ghost flames for the past three hours and a hotter stove top


----------



## johnstra

-8F here right now.  The high today was 0F and we're headed for a low tonight of -14F. It's 73 in the house. I've run the King hard enough today that the glass is clear 

Thermostat is pointing to the 'o' in Normal, which is significantly more air than I usually give it.  At this setting I get 14-16 hours out of a load with the cat just barely in the active range at the end of the cycle.  I am running with the fans on, but I run them pretty low.

Happy to have my King!


----------



## Quentin2

Every time you guys down south are in cold snaps I'm in a warm snap.  I guess it's more than that, come New Years it will be the first time ever anchorage did not get below zero in a calendar year.  It's about 40 degrees right now and my glass is solid black.


----------



## Rich2343

kennyp2339 said:


> It's 23 deg out today, my coldest day since installing the princess, I've been just burning ash, cherry, and a little maple, this afternoon I threw in a load of red oak, this stove is simply amazing, oak is its favorite, I've had ghost flames for the past three hours and a hotter stove top
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 148951
> View attachment 148952


Wow for 3 hrs that's nice I have to run mine on 2 to get major ghost flames and then the stove is over 500*


----------



## Highbeam

I still am impressed with the BK's ability to bust through a totally packed load of douglas fir in 12 hours OR consume that same load in 24 hours all while burning cleanly, efficiently, and putting out whatever amount of heat you want. It's like running a BBQ. We were in the mid teens last night and I got to run the fan all night.

I did shove two full loads through my 3.5CF noncat in the shop within two hours. It was making major mojo but after two hours the STT was under 400 after the second load. Raised the temp of that shop from 41 to 55 at floor level.


----------



## Rossco

Weather here has let up a little. 

Currently 12F and will drop to 1F over night. BK doing good, blasting through loads every 12hrs but worth the extra leg work.


----------



## becasunshine

OK, interesting that I popped back into this thread at just this time.

DUMB QUESTION ALERT!  DUMB QUESTION ALERT!

When do you clean out the firebox?  At what point do you know that it's time to shovel out the firebox?

We usually burn for two or three nights, and we reload the stove on the last night before we go to bed.  On the last day we don't reload the stove, even if it gets a little cool in the house.  We let it burn down and we leave the stove on "low" when we leave the house.  Typically by the time we leave, we are down to a reasonable bed of ash with burning embers embedded in it. 

Also typically the stove is cool enough to do a wet ash wipe down of the glass to remove most of the creosote so that the next week's cleaning isn't a bear.

Then, when we return several days later, the stove is stone cold, the embers are out, and clean up is a breeze.  We shovel out the biggest part of the ash (metal ash can regardless) vacuum up the rest (PowerSmith ash vac) and dump the cold ashes onto the gravel driveway. 

SO NOW- it's in the 20's outside.  I can't give you our very local wind chill right now because we need to replace some batteries in the outdoor components on our weather station but local weather is showing no wind chill at the moment. (Sometimes our very local wind chill is different due to wind off of the water.)  Low tonight is expected to be 18'. 

We've been burning steadily for a little over 48 hours, and we have an incredible bed of glowing embers built up to the lower lip of the door opening.  We can lay three or four logs north to south on this bed during a reload but no more than that.

Stove is purring along like a kitten at 1.5.  House is 73'

I know we will have to shovel out eventually but at this moment I am loathe to do anything to disrupt this wonderful heat.  Do we just let it burn down for a while- no reloads until the ash/ember level falls below the lip of the door? 

When exactly do you decide that it's time to shovel that wonderful layer of embers out of the stove???


----------



## rdust

becasunshine said:


> When exactly do you decide that it's time to shovel that wonderful layer of embers out of the stove???



I have never decided it was a good idea to shovel coals out of the stove.   Pull some of them forward, crank the air and burn them down for a while.  After a reasonable amount is in the stove I move them to one side, shovel out some ash, move them to the other side and shovel out more ash, pull them forward again and reload.


----------



## turbojoe

I usually go a few weeks.
Burn down those coals some before adding wood. There is about 3 hours of heat left. Now that the temps are colder i was also ending up with alot of coals near the end of a burn cycle, Once in the coaling stage i will start to turn up the stat to get more heat from the coals and burn them down. I will usually go to about 2.5 for an hour or so then when the stove top starts to drop off again i go right to 3.5, that gets me at least another hour of usable heat.
Also i always leave an inch or two of coals in the bottom.

Joe


----------



## becasunshine

turbojoe said:


> I usually go a few weeks.
> Burn down those coals some before adding wood. There is about 3 hours of heat left. Now that the temps are colder i was also ending up with alot of coals near the end of a burn cycle, Once in the coaling stage i will start to turn up the stat to get more heat from the coals and burn them down. I will usually go to about 2.5 for an hour or so then when the stove top starts to drop off again i go right to 3.5, that gets me at least another hour of usable heat.
> Also i always leave an inch or two of coals in the bottom.
> 
> Joe



Aha.  Perfect.  So far we've been keeping the t-stat steady and adding wood.  The house temperature has stayed remarkably consistent but obviously there's a limit to this method.    

Letting the coals burn down for another three hours would be just about perfect tonight!  And if needed we'll turn up the t-stat to get more heat.

Thank you for a cogent (and courteous!) response to a question that I knew in my heart was sort of dumb.  I figured that the answer was some variation of "Well, let it burn down!" but I needed someone to fill in the spaces for me.


----------



## turbojoe

becasunshine said:


> Aha.  Perfect.  So far we've been keeping the t-stat steady and adding wood.  The house temperature has stayed remarkably consistent but obviously there's a limit to this method.
> 
> Letting the coals burn down for another three hours would be just about perfect tonight!  And if needed we'll turn up the t-stat to get more heat.
> 
> Thank you for a cogent (and courteous!) response to a question that I knew in my heart was sort of dumb.  I figured that the answer was some variation of "Well, let it burn down!" but I needed someone to fill in the spaces for me.


 
No question is a dumb one  I asked a few weeks back...lol
Turning up the T stat ( Air )  burns them down faster too. 3 hours was just a rough figure, you know how it goes, every set up is different.
I wish i could keep the T Stat steady on these cold days. Full load, i end up at 1.5 = 500 Stove Top, To mantain that temp i have to bump it up a little every few hours.
I usually end up running 1.75 to 2.25. If i start out at 1.75, S.T. gets to 650 plus before i see any sign of the flap closing. Once it does close, it doesn't want to open again until it drops 200 degrees S.T.  I think my T stat is lazy


----------



## rdust

Happy New Year!  Filled the belly with ash and oak tonight.


----------



## jeff_t

rdust said:


> Happy New Year!  Filled the belly with ash and oak tonight.
> 
> View attachment 149099



Eight splits. That's more like it


----------



## Rossco

It's official as of MST : HAPPY NEW YEAR to all me fellow BK and wood burners.

Been an up & down year but its ended.

Got the BK cranked and Iam sweating in here @ 24C.

Good luck everyone.


----------



## Poindexter

(Yawn) Another month, another boring update.  

1756 heating degree days (base 65) for Dec 2014, second warmest December in recorded history here.  The average temp for the month, 24/7/31 as it were was +8dF.  Dec 2013 I had 2156 HDD, Dec 2012 2550 HDD, all base 65.

Stove is loafing.  I have tried a new load method, one enormous split against the wall on the left and then fill the right side with small and medium splits.  My wife works for the University, been home every day for a couple weeks.  It gives a nice burst of heat when everyone is up and moving, and then settles down to a moderate glow for the rest of the 12 hour burn cycle with the cat mostly active and the house not too terribly hot.

Supposed to get down to -25dF over the weekend with day time highs in the -10s F.  Looking forward to it, I would really like to find out what this stove can do, these positive numbers I am seeing, well, I got more stove than I need and time to figure out how to load it best.  

I am keeping 1200sqft of 5 star energy rated at +80dF with ambients at +8dF average, with just enough wood burning to keep the cat active.

Long term forecast for January is "unseasonably warm", I guess we'll see.  I would love to say I am burning "x" much less wood than last year, but correcting for the warmer temps makes it kinda iffy.  I will take on math like that  for the whole season once I get to April, but I got better things to do with my time than headaches like that right now.  Seat of the pants, I am carrying less wood to the stove than I was last year, even allowing for the milder winter I am having this year.  

I would really like a good solid week at -30dF and colder to get a reading on that consumption before I try to compare this winter to last winter.  Off the cuff, 20-30% less wood than I burnt in my 10 year old EPA non-cat is probably about right for the Ashford.


----------



## Dieselhead

I used the ash pan in my ultra for the first time yesterday. I have to say I liked it. I overfilled it (twice) and ashes spilled out into the base of the stove but that's my fault. It beat shoveling the hot ash into my bucket and have the dust fly all over the house. I wore gloves the canister gets hot. i don't have the luxury to let the stove sit for 2-3 days and let the embers burn out. Ash was about as high as the door lip and after 2 fills, there was about and inch or 2 left on the bottom of the stove.


----------



## TheBigIron

Hello all.

I'm new here so go easy  Couple of question for you experts.  I currently have a wood insert in my fireplace of my home which is approximately  2500 sq ft 2 story home.  Located in North Central IL, home was built in the early 1900's with fair insulation.  Windows are of the 1980's technology (crank andersons), house has pebble ash for exterior which I don't think its wrapped in Typar paper.  Attic insulation is 40".  My insert which is located in my family room only heats the room it's in and I lose 50percent of the heat through the chimney chase cause its set back in there.

Question 1; With the blaze King (King) can the flue be vented out the back of the stove?  Would this hinder its performance at all.  I want to extend my hearth and place the stove into the room and use the same chimney (I would just have to increase the flue size from 6 to 8".

Question 2;  I'm also considering an add on wood furnace however I could not hook into my second floor furnace because of my ductwork in the attic is flexible ducting.  I would rather have the free standing stove if I ever lost power no issues would come from not having power to the unit.  

Help would be appreciated from you experts.  Thanks for your time Dave


----------



## rdust

The46Zone said:


> Hello all.
> 
> Question 1; With the blaze King (King) can the flue be vented out the back of the stove?  Would this hinder its performance at all.  I want to extend my hearth and place the stove into the room and use the same chimney (I would just have to increase the flue size from 6 to 8".



Welcome!  There is a lot you can learn here.

The BKK is a top vent only, I believe BK recommends a 36" rise before any elbows.  

If you're dead set on a rear vent check out the Woodstock stoves.


----------



## Rossco

Going through wood steady. Still having a few 'Negative Pressure' Problems that disappears when I open the basement up while loading wood in.

Severe weather warnings across the valley. 'Warm Pacific air meeting cold Northern currents = SNOW!!'

Currently -15C here with a -27C wind chill brrrrrrrr

The Zone: You wanna rear vent the King? Top Vent only eh.

Edit: rdust beat me too it. Get ya next time partner


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## jeff_t

The46Zone said:


> My insert which is located in my family room only heats the room it's in and I lose 50percent of the heat through the chimney chase cause its set back in there.



Is there a block off plate in there?


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## TheBigIron

jeff_t said:


> Is there a block off plate in there?


My insert sits in my fireplace and I only get from the glass and the blowers from the front


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## tigger

With the temps rising into the 50's today I took the opportunity to run my new sooteater. Came up with about 2 cups worth.  I have been running it fairly low for most of the season with the mild winter we have had in New England. It's also my first year running a blaze king. My liner is uninsulated also. I'm guessing that's about where I should be. I have to say I really like the sooteater also. Pretty easy with the insert.


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## turbojoe

Time to stretch the legs on my Princess,  Cold snap starting tonight in Michigan.  I need about 550/600 st to keep the house warm.
How long can you maintain 600 st without touching the stove ?
I need to  bump the air a few times or it dies down to 350/400 after 4 hours.


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## rdust

turbojoe said:


> Time to stretch the legs on my Princess,  Cold snap starting tonight in Michigan.  I need about 550/600 st to keep the house warm.
> How long can you maintain 600 st without touching the stove ?
> I need to  bump the air a few times or it dies down to 350/400 after 4 hours.



I have no idea, probably not long enough but I've never tried since it's not needed here.  A 400* ST will maintain my temps in this weather.  It's gonna be a fun week looking at the 10 day forecast.


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## turbojoe

rdust said:


> I have no idea, probably not long enough but I've never tried since it's not needed here.  A 400* ST will maintain my temps in this weather.  It's gonna be a fun week looking at the 10 day forecast.


Sounds like a perfect match, it loves to run 400/450 forever.
I finally have shoulder season, slow and low down pat 
Now time to learn how to run her in cold weather.  
Not impressed with the TStat at higher temps. Very slow to adjust the air valve if at all. 
Still love the stove Chris 
Can't wait to take control of the air... I'm a control freak...lol


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## Highbeam

turbojoe said:


> Time to stretch the legs on my Princess,  Cold snap starting tonight in Michigan.  I need about 550/600 st to keep the house warm.
> How long can you maintain 600 st without touching the stove ?
> I need to  bump the air a few times or it dies down to 350/400 after 4 hours.



Rather than try and bump up the stove top temp, kick the fans on. They make a huge difference in output. With a cat stove, the stove top temp is heavily influenced by the cat right there under the top. When you crank up the stat, the firebox also heats up for a bigger heated surface even if the stt doesn't change much.


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## turbojoe

Highbeam said:


> Rather than try and bump up the stove top temp, kick the fans on. They make a huge difference in output. With a cat stove, the stove top temp is heavily influenced by the cat right there under the top. When you crank up the stat, the firebox also heats up for a bigger heated surface even if the stt doesn't change much.


Good point Highbeam. I
I generally only use it on low. I think I'm trying to use it like my tube stove that put out tons of convection heat with no blower. It looks like this stove benefits alot from pulling the heat with the blower.


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## Quentin2

+1 on the blowers Im running medium to high with our cold temps.
It's been a record over a full calendar year with no below zero.  That record ends tonight, -3f at my house and I'm actually glad to see it.  Maybe now when a storm rolls in it will warm up and snow instead of rain.  

Stoves doing really well, I suspect my home is insulated pretty good compared to some.  Stove gets up around 600 in the beginning, but certainly isn't holding that for very long.


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## rdust

turbojoe said:


> Good point Highbeam. I
> I generally only use it on low. I think I'm trying to use it like my tube stove that put out tons of convection heat with no blower. It looks like this stove benefits alot from pulling the heat with the blower.



Without a doubt you need to use the blower when it's colder.  30 and above I run without the blower when much below 30 I run it on low.  I have only a time or two ran it higher than low.  Right now blower is on low, t-stat on the line of the normal range(a touch below the n) stove top 575* about 3 hours into the load.


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## rdust

turbojoe said:


> Not impressed with the TStat at higher temps. Very slow to adjust the air valve if at all.



T-stat is a simple design, it's not overly sensitive.  I think it's fine for a wood stove, a fire doesn't respond that quickly so you have to be careful how quickly you make adjustments or the fire will never have a chance to settle in.  It's been discussed many times before, while not perfect I'll take it over not having it.  I think it does it's best work early on in a fresh load.


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## Poindexter

A burn regime that has been working for me between shoulder season and really cold.  Might be worth a try for some of y'all.

Bottom layer is 2 biologs sandwiched between two splits, all laying E-W on a decent bed of coals.  Above that on the far left is one enormous split, it was an 8" round, split once into two pieces about three years ago.  Filled in on the right with small splits.

It seems like what this is doing for me is a medium warm burn, but plenty of heat at the front end of the burn from all the smalls on the right for sure.  But when the smalls on the right get down to coals, the biggun on the left is still putting out vapors for the cat to eat, so the cat temp stays kinda medium high, say a finger width above active, for several hours.  Later later in the burn when the smalls are pretty well ash, I can whack the biggun a couple times with the BK provided tool and have a bed of coals for the next load....


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## Quentin2

How's your glass looking these days poindexter?
How's everybody's glass looking?  I was kinda curious about the newer model but let's see some door closed bk pics.

I experimented with best way to get a realistic pic and I think dark room with flash worked best for me.
If it's just coals no flash.


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## Rossco

I will see your 90% clear glass and raise you a 100.





Burning pretttttty dry wood and turned it up during the cold snap.


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## Quentin2

Daaamnn, that's better than the fake fire in the brochures
Do you ever clean your glass?  I will admit I have not cleaned mine once in 2 years of owning.


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## Rossco

Quentin2 said:


> Daaamnn, that's better than the fake fire in the brochures
> Do you ever clean your glass?  I will admit I have not cleaned mine once in 2 years of owning.



Ha thanks allot. I have a draft problem. I.E Voracious at these ambient temps. That's set on the Cold line of 'Norm'

It's my first season with the BK, I only cleaned the PE glass when bored during the summer. I prefer to cleanse it with fire.


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## Dieselhead

turbojoe said:


> Time to stretch the legs on my Princess,  Cold snap starting tonight in Michigan.  I need about 550/600 st to keep the house warm.
> How long can you maintain 600 st without touching the stove ?
> I need to  bump the air a few times or it dies down to 350/400 after 4 hours.


About 14 hrs on my king ultra, 550 is a good temp with fans on low/med to keep my house at 70 when it's about 30 out. Mind you 550 is only above the cat, the top elsewhere is 100-200 deg less typically


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## 05ramctd

What is the best way to run your BK King during a cold snap...  Wife and kids  hover near the stove want to put out the best heat.  Got some well seasoned oak and birch I am going to use for the next couple days.  Is it ok to run the stove on 2.5 and 3 if heat is needed I do have the fans going around medium.  Just don't want to damage anything,  getting about 500-650 with the t stat in the normal zone and near the end of normal zone.


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## Poindexter

You can run it wide open throttle, 3/3 for weeks at a time if you need too.  Ask me how i know ;-)

I did post up a load regime last night, post 1252 just under a dozen posts ago, maybe on the previous page now.  One big spit on one side, a load of smalls on the other.

In general, if you got lots of small pieces in there, like 15-20 splits you are going to have a lot of surface area burning at once and a lot of heat, in exchange for a short burn.

With two big splits in there side by side and only burning in the valley between the two big pieces, small surface area lit, less heat out of the stove, but still enough to jiggle the tstat to keep the cat active,a nd a really long burn.  Like that first fall evening when it is cloudy and sprinkling and "cold" for the first time all summer and you want a bowl of beef with barley soup and the first fire of the season in the stove

What I pictured last night is either the best of both worlds, or the worst of both options, depending on your chimney height and how thick your insulation is and how cold it is where you are and all the rest....


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## 05ramctd

Remember reading it now thanks.  Great people with great info.


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## Dieselhead

Poindexter said:


> You can run it wide open throttle, 3/3 for weeks at a time if you need too.  Ask me how i know ;-)
> 
> ..


Not this guy! My stove would melt That statement depends a lot on draft I assume.


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## turbojoe

Dieselhead said:


> Not this guy! My stove would melt That statement depends a lot on draft I assume.


Same here


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## turbojoe

Highbeam said:


> Rather than try and bump up the stove top temp, kick the fans on. They make a huge difference in output. With a cat stove, the stove top temp is heavily influenced by the cat right there under the top. When you crank up the stat, the firebox also heats up for a bigger heated surface even if the stt doesn't change much.


The blower was the key Rdust and Highbeam,  thanks.
Ran 450 ST with blower up half way, plenty of heat  it was 5F last  night.
Now i have a new issue  not with the stove. My Manufactured home is in a park until it gets moved to it's basement on my lake lot, in the spring. No furnace = no heat below the floor to keep the pipes from freezing   had to shut down the stove until i get something figured out. Any ideas ? I have heat tape on the main feed pipe. NP there. It's the plastic stuff buried in the floor insulation. This suck :0


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## kennyp2339

I gave the chimney and princess a good clean out yesterday morning, temps by me were in the mid 40's, I was really surprised by how little amount of creosote I had, I also had a different type, with my old stove I had like an ashy globby (but dry type) and this stove is was like a 150 grit black sand paper. Really weird stuff, but anyway also learned that when you clean the chimney with this stove you need to remove the stove pipe and vacuum the inside by the by-pass and cat, (its a good thing I actually pulled the smoke pipe and looked) some of the creosote was laying on the by-pass gasket and some of it piled up in front of the cat, if I left it there I probably would have had problems with a poor by-pass seal and a poor cat performance.


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## Highbeam

kennyp2339 said:


> Really weird stuff, but anyway also learned that when you clean the chimney with this stove you need to remove the stove pipe and vacuum the inside by the by-pass and cat, (its a good thing I actually pulled the smoke pipe and looked) some of the creosote was laying on the by-pass gasket and some of it piled up in front of the cat, if I left it there I probably would have had problems with a poor by-pass seal and a poor cat performance.


 
I actually get junk falling down from above all the time and landing on that bypass gasket. Every time it is cold enough I run my fingers along that entire gasket and sweep away all of the junk that has fallen. My flue is all vertical so that might contribute. If I do a good cleanout (not the annual sweep) on a cold stove I will even feed the shopvac hose up into the cat chamber and vacuum all of that junk out of there. I still can't get to the back of the cat though without lifting the flue of the stove.


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## kennyp2339

Fed Ex just sent an email stating that the blaze king princess blower was delivered today.


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## Dieselhead

turbojoe said:


> Same here


I just checked, on 2 I have a stt of 670 degrees today. It is windy out and 30 degrees, helping the draft along I'm sure. Just turned it down to 1 3/4.


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## tarzan

Cold front coming through. Looks like I will be ignoring burn times and running the stove on "whatever it takes to keep the kids warm" setting for a few days.


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## turbojoe

Dieselhead said:


> I just checked, on 2 I have a stt of 670 degrees today. It is windy out and 30 degrees, helping the draft along I'm sure. Just turned it down to 1 3/4.


Sounds about right, 1 3/4 i'm @ 550/575 F
I fixed my pipe freeze issue, i just turn the water on every 2 hours   running the furnace was too much for me to take,lol... first cold snap, i wana let er rip...


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## Rossco

tarzan said:


> Cold front coming through. Looks like I will be ignoring burn times and running the stove on "*whatever it takes to keep the kids warm"* setting for a few days.



Hell yeah. I got a 3 month old in the house. 

1) Never be too warm 
2) Never be too rich
3) Never be too well armed.


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## webfish

Locking. Opened another thread , BK #2.


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