# Long awaited ..... Square Ground vs. Round Filed - Showdown!



## MasterMech (Jun 5, 2013)

I think the vid says everything. Check it out.



Special thanks to Nixon for loaning me the square-ground chain.


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## bogydave (Jun 5, 2013)

New round chisel ,out of the box chain is better 

Need an inch bigger bar or an inch smaller log LOL


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## HittinSteel (Jun 5, 2013)

Glad I don't need to consider square ground.

That 460 is rippin'


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## MasterMech (Jun 5, 2013)

HittinSteel said:


> Glad I don't need to consider square ground.
> 
> That 460 is rippin'


That's running an 8 pin rim too. Even when I dig in with it it just will not run out of power.


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## smokinj (Jun 5, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I think the vid says everything. Check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Special thanks to Nixon for loaning me the square-ground chain.






Ok, ok your pants are way to clean. Did the wife get a hold of them? And just, just a little short. (Thats what she said) Ok, ok enough with the jokes saws sound Awesome.....Now back to the grinder myself!


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## NH_Wood (Jun 5, 2013)

Dang, saw is SCREAMIN'! Real nice MM! Cheers!


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Jun 5, 2013)

Me being a newbie.....lol, can someone please tell me what exactly you are talking about and comparing the 2 things to?
I just don't see it and I would love to learn something new... Ty


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## smokinj (Jun 5, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Me being a newbie.....lol, can someone please tell me what exactly you are talking about and comparing the 2 things to?
> I just don't see it and I would love to learn something new... Ty


 


Its just the way the chain tooth is. One is the way most of everyone does it Round tooth gullet. Other is squared. Much harder and more expensive to pull off. Unless your really    serious about racing the square does not make much since.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jun 5, 2013)

I hate to be that guy, but, wouldn't Stihl round tooth vs Stihl square tooth (or Oregon vs Oregon) be the fair test?

CORRECTION: I don't hate being that guy


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## Corey (Jun 5, 2013)

Not sure this is about round tooth vs square tooth - I thought it was a comparison of round file vs square file - of a full chisel (square) tooth?  But either way, I'm still confused...I thought square filed chain was supposed to be 'da bomb' - yet in the video, it seems to take almost 2x as long as the 'round' filed chain?   I wonder if this is more about geometry of Oregon chain vs Stihl?


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## MasterMech (Jun 5, 2013)

This is just a comparison between the two filing methods.  Both chains are chisel type chains (square corner comes to a sharp point at the leading edge of the cutter).  No semi-chisel chain was harmed in the making of this video.

It would have been nice to have a loop of RSL (the Stihl equivalent) for a more direct comparison but I think the vid does a good job of showing how good RSC is out of the box.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Me being a newbie.....lol, can someone please tell me what exactly you are talking about and comparing the 2 things to?
> I just don't see it and I would love to learn something new... Ty


 
First chain's cutter teeth looked like this:






Second chain's cutter teeth looked like this.


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## Nixon (Jun 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> This is just a comparison between the two filing methods.  Both chains are chisel type chains (square corner comes to a sharp point at the leading edge of the cutter).  No semi-chisel chain was harmed in the making of this video.
> 
> It would have been nice to have a loop of RSL (the Stihl equivalent) for a more direct comparison but I think the vid does a good job of showing how good RSC is out of the box.



Thanks for taking the time to do this test . The results are surprising to say the least . This is the first time that I've seen square filed beat by round filed . I'm going to order a couple of loops of RSLK just to see if there is a difference between oregon and Stihl . Inquiring minds have to know  
Oh , and one other thing ........ Are you sure the oregon chain was on the right way ?  
Sorry  , just had to say that .


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## Jags (Jun 6, 2013)

I didn't actually time the video - what was the average difference in the cut time?


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

The RSC was thumping the 72CL by about 5 secends. (11 sec vs 16 IIRC)

Not to mention I could feel the difference as soon as the chips were flying.  If you listen closely, you can hear the saw isn't loading as much running the square chisel chain.  There are a couple spots where it reverts to four-stroking in the cut.


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## Jags (Jun 6, 2013)

Me likes my RSC - it is the only chain I use.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

Apparently, the results are repeatable....





Then he shows us a hand-filed, square chain.  I've heard of square-grind chain being less than impressive out-of-the-box.  Guess there is something to it.


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## StihlHead (Jun 6, 2013)

Bar is really too short for those logs for a, "this says it all," video. Also the chains are not the same brand. Oregon chain is inferior to Stihl in my experience, Oregon has way softer steel, and the two companies do not sharpen their chains the same at the factory.

You need a smaller log or bigger bar, and Stihl vs. Stihl. or Carlton vs Carlton if you are going to do this type of video right. Otherwise it really does not prove anything.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Bar is really too short for those logs for a, "this says it all," video. Also the chains are not the same brand. Oregon chain is inferior to Stihl in my experience, Oregon has way softer steel, and the two companies do not sharpen their chains the same at the factory.
> 
> You need a smaller log or bigger bar, and Stihl vs. Stihl. or Carlton vs Carlton if you are going to do this type of video right


 

There is much more testing that could be done. I'd love to have RSC, RSLK, 72CL, and 72LG here for testing but alas I didn't feel like acquiring $100 worth of chain (easy) to play on camera. Nixon decided to try some square ground and I offered to film it against RSC since he wasn't able to do so himself. This is far from a end-all-be-all comparison but it does reinforce that for the everyday firewood cutter, round-filed chisel chain is a reliable performer.



> . Otherwise it really does not prove anything.


 
If the bar, the saw, and the log are all the same, the results are pretty valid no? Perhaps both chains would be faster if the nose of the bar protruded the whole length of the cut. But so long as the only variable is the chain that's mounted on the saw, the results are good. Out of the box, Oregon square-ground is much slower than Stihl RSC.


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## Nixon (Jun 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I'd love to have RSC, RSLK, 72CL, and 72LG here for testing but alas I didn't feel like acquiring $100 worth of chain (easy) to play on camera. Nixon



Well , I'm going to go down to the local Stihl dealership in the next week , or so to order a couple of 
RSLK chains any way . Might even order a couple of RSK chains to see what the difference between it ans RSC is .
So , when I get them in my hot little hands , you up for another video ? I even have a new 72 CL. 
Same deal .... I get 'em back when done  .


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## mikefrommaine (Jun 6, 2013)

That video made me remember I should order some stihl rs chain for my new saw.  Every time I've put rs chain on a saw that was running something else I've been impressed.  Problem is ebay doesn't have any .325 .058 stihl chain.  Looks I have to go to my dealer.  For what they charge I might as well buy a new bar even though I have 3 good ones.


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## StihlHead (Jun 6, 2013)

Odd size 0.058... most Stihl B&C in .325 is 0.063 gauge. Even your dealer may not stock that size.


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## mikefrommaine (Jun 6, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Odd size 0.058... most Stihl B&C in .325 is 0.063 gauge. Even your dealer may not stock that size.


It's for my 254. I have three nice .058 bars that will fit the saw. And one worn out .050 husky small mount.  And then a bunch of stihl .o63 .325.. Getting tired of keeping it all straight.  Been thinking of converting everything  to 3/8 .050 and buying the tools to make my own loops.


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## StihlHead (Jun 6, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> It's for my 254. I have three nice .058 bars that will fit the saw. And one worn out .050 husky small mount. And then a bunch of stihl .o63 .325.. Getting tired of keeping it all straight. Been thinking of converting everything to 3/8 .050 and buying the tools to make my own loops.


 
Now you have me more confused... I thought that the 0.063 was far more common in 3/8 in the Midwest and back east though? 0.050 gauge is a west coast thing.

I flipped everything to 0.050 3/8 long ago for that very reason. I sold all my .325 small and large format B&C, and all my 0.063 gauge 3/8 B&C. Everything from the 026s on up run 3/8 B&C in 0.050 gauge. Only the 211 runs Picco, and maybe one of the 026s that I am setting up with a large format picco bar (shhhhhhhhhh!). I have a dozen or so large format 3/8 Stihl bars from 16 to 32 inch. One type of chain fits all, though I run several types of loops: RM and RS and some older safety loops. If I still owned my logging/timber property I would buy rolls of full chisel chain and make my own loops. I like having the variety of bar lengths and loop types though.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

Nixon said:


> Well , I'm going to go down to the local Stihl dealership in the next week , or so to order a couple of
> RSLK chains any way . Might even order a couple of RSK chains to see what the difference between it ans RSC is .
> So , when I get them in my hot little hands , you up for another video ? I even have a new 72 CL.
> Same deal .... I get 'em back when done  .


You ship, I shoot!  I like it.


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## MasterMech (Jun 6, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Now you have me more confused... I thought that the 0.063 was far more common in 3/8 in the Midwest and back east though? 0.050 gauge is a west coast thing.



Oh heck no.  There is a good bit of Husky stuff here running .058 but near everything else is .050 except Stihl .325 which is .063 99% of the time.

.058 needs to go away. Soon.


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## Thistle (Jun 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Oh heck no. There is a good bit of Husky stuff here running .058 but near everything else is .050 except Stihl .325 which is .063 99% of the time.
> 
> .058 needs to go away. Soon.



Some of the old Mac info I've seen in the past & more recently seems to always mention .058 gauge,seems pretty obsolete to me.Rarely see it for sale online & never seen it sold locally either.


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## mikefrommaine (Jun 6, 2013)

All but one of the husky's I've had have been .058.  3/8 and .325.

The stihls have been .050 3/8 or .063 .325


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## Thistle (Jun 6, 2013)

In 30+ yrs of owning & using chainsaws all I've used were .050 gauge,3/8 for bars under 32",.063,3/8 for longer ones.


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## Nixon (Jun 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> You ship, I shoot!  I like it.


Ordered two rslk chains ( 72 &84 dl ) ,and an rsk 84 dl yesterday . I've got to find a better dealer . I had the P/N s ,and the parts guy wanted to argue that they weren't right . So, he farted about for 30 minutes looking for the #s until I told himTo punch in the #s I gave him . Amazingly the chains I wanted showed up on the computer !  they should be in late next week .


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## Jack Fate (Jun 8, 2013)

Nixon said:


> Ordered two rslk chains ( 72 &84 dl ) ,and an rsk 84 dl yesterday . I've got to find a better dealer . I had the P/N s ,and the parts guy wanted to argue that they weren't right . So, he farted about for 30 minutes looking for the #s until I told himTo punch in the #s I gave him . Amazingly the chains I wanted showed up on the computer !  they should be in late next week .


 
Typical parts guy got one living next door


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## MasterMech (Jul 18, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> I hate to be that guy, but, wouldn't Stihl round tooth vs Stihl square tooth (or Oregon vs Oregon) be the fair test?
> 
> CORRECTION: I don't hate being that guy


 
You're about to get your wish Redd.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 18, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> You're about to get your wish Redd.


 
Complete vindication!


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