# Disappointed With My Stihl



## johnpma (May 5, 2014)

Purchased a 251 "homeowner" saw in December. I've had a Jonsered 455 for years that has served me well.

The cutting I've done has mostly been on the saw buck. Most the wood we are cutting are downed maple, oak, and cherry from the last two seasons of late fall winter storms.

On Saturday I dropped a leftover maple trunk who's top was snapped off during the storm. Once dropped I begin cutting into logs on the ground then roll the trunk to finish my cuts.

Chips looked great! Plenty of bar oil! Things are going great. I consider this "homeowner" type cutting

Well while cutting my saw completely becomes dismantled. There is a stud with a coarse thread that is threaded into a PLASTIC housing that pulled out of the plastic allowing the nut/stud, side cover, the bar, and the chain to come flying off the side of the saw. WHAT THE HECK IS THIS!! Really ??!! PLASTIC!! Do I really need to purchase an industrial Stihl saw to do weekend cutting as a "homeowner"!! I am so disgusted with my decision I read all the great Stihl reviews and then the company makes the weak link of the product a metal stud into a plastic housing!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

Still under warranty, I hope?

It's pretty much standard for the chassis to be plastic on homeowner saws, regardless of brand, and it's usually fine.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 5, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Do I really need to purchase an industrial Stihl saw to do weekend cutting as a "homeowner"!! I am so disgusted with my decision I read all the great Stihl reviews and then the company makes the weak link of the product a metal stud into a plastic housing!!



Uhhh, yeah.

Homeowner grade Stihls (and Husqys) are no better than WalMart sold Pulans.  It's not a big secret.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 5, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Uhhh, yeah.
> 
> Homeowner grade Stihls (and Husqys) are no better than WalMart sold Pulans.  It's not a big secret.



Echo makes one " grade" of each piece of equipment, commercial grade.......  Just saying.  5yr homeowner warranty


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> Echo makes one " grade" of each piece of equipment, commercial grade.......  Just saying.  5yr homeowner warranty



I have only handled and worked on one Echo saw so I am no expert on their product line, but the one I worked on was a clamshell engine in a plastic chassis, just like the homeowner saws of other brands.


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## johnpma (May 5, 2014)

This saw is less than homeowner grade IMHO It has about 16 hours on it......what makes anyone think that even their top of the line is any better internally??? If a $350 saw won't hold up for three half day cuts of doing cord wood then you have to spend $600 for what??? The saw to hold up for longer than 16 hours....

Chinese garbage


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## mike van (May 5, 2014)

John, that saw should be under warranty for a year,  I would certainly pursue  that - I agree with you,  350.00 should last longer.


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## Beer Belly (May 5, 2014)

I've had a few issues with my MS290, and found that my Craftsman 36cc with a 16 in Bar to be _more reliable_.....cuts slower, but will cut all day long, and that saw has gotta be close to 10 years old. Now the Stihl, seems to be more of a maintenance hog.....I've never done a thing to the Craftsman except a couple of Chains.....the Stihl....seems I gotta tear it down and clean and adjust after each use.....Craftsman, never


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## Clyde S. Dale (May 5, 2014)

That does suck and I agree that should not happen after 16 hours of use. Warranty should cover it so once it is fixed, sell it and put that money towards another brand if you no longer want to run Stihl. Keep us posted as to how things go with your dealer and having it fixed under warranty.


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## johnpma (May 5, 2014)

mike van said:


> John, that saw should be under warranty for a year,  I would certainly pursue  that - I agree with you,  350.00 should last longer.


 Thanks yeah I'm going to look into it. Problem is that even If I got it fixed and upgraded to something a little better I don't even feel comfortable selling this thing used to another homeowner because I know the "weak link"  in the saw design.....I would never feel right doing that to someone


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

That's kind of an impractical burden to put on yourself.  You aren't responsible for the saw's design, prospective buyers have access to reviews and the warranty will go with it.  Besides, you don't know nearly enough to chalk this failure up to faulty design.  It could just as easily be due to a flawed plastic part, incorrect assembly or overtightening the bar nut.  I'd be angry too, but you're jumping to a lot of conclusions.


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## BrotherBart (May 5, 2014)

Am I reading this right, the bar studs are mounted in plastic?


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Am I reading this right, the bar studs are mounted in plastic?



Stud.  One stud.


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## johnpma (May 5, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> That's kind of an impractical burden to put on yourself.  You aren't responsible for the saw's design, prospective buyers have access to reviews and the warranty will go with it.  Besides, you don't know nearly enough to chalk this failure up to faulty design.  It could just as easily be due to a flawed plastic part, incorrect assembly or overtightening the bar nut.  I'd be angry too, but you're jumping to a lot of conclusions.



Correct!! However I'm a mechanical engineer that specializes in the plastics industry......a stainless stud threaded into plastic is an extremely poor design as the plastic will always be the weak link. If they wanted to use the plastic parts then at the lease they could have installed an oversize stainless thread insert into the plastic housing to take some of the torque of the screw...... you could even pinch the bar, give the saw a little twist and pop the bar stud

As far as resale to another consumer I tend to think of how I would feel......


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## bobdog2o02 (May 5, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> I have only handled and worked on one Echo saw so I am no expert on their product line, but the one I worked on was a clamshell engine in a plastic chassis, just like the homeowner saws of other brands.



You are right, but clamshell does not mean less reliable, just a little more work to tear down.  Last i looked my echos have 2 bar studs........


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## johnpma (May 5, 2014)

Called Stihl
1.) yes they are aware of the problem
2.) they have not changed the design, issued a recall, or offer an upgrade
3.) it's under warranty and the dealer will install an oversize stud into the plastic stripped out hole but use lock tite this time

The only answer is bring it to a dealer for repair

SAD


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## bobdog2o02 (May 5, 2014)

Just selling a name


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

Another way I've seen this done, which I feel better about, is studs that have a large head on the back and are pushed through from inside the oil tank, instead of being threaded in from the outside.  Still a plastic housing, but no threads to strip.  I wonder why Stihl did this one this way?


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## mstoelton (May 5, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> I wonder why Stihl did this one this way?



Stihl is trying to make the design cheaper so they can max out the profits and minimize the cost to produce.

Poulan was a decent chainsaw at one time too!


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## AK13 (May 5, 2014)

That is too bad. My MS250 has been a work horse for me. I've used it well out of its pay grade and it has been flawless. Does it share this deficiency that is mentioned by the OP or did they cheap out the MS251 (and raise the price!)?


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## Jon1270 (May 5, 2014)

I just checked the parts list and the 250 has the same sort of threaded-in stud, but it has 2 of them so each is under less stress.


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## goofa (May 5, 2014)

Not much better with a  proffesional Grade ms460 melted piston 12 months later with approx 20 hrs on it. Sadly disappointed.


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## Jon1270 (May 6, 2014)

Just a thought for the OP -- if you do decide to replace the 251 you might consider a Dolmar PS420.  I've read a lot of good things about them, including that they're built like pro saws (split magnesium crankcase), relatively affordable and nice to run in general.  The 420 is slightly lighter and has a little less power than a 251, but is close enough.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 6, 2014)

I'm just curious, what is the retail price on a 251?


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## Jon1270 (May 6, 2014)

Looks like 339.95 in my area.


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## johnpma (May 6, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> Looks like 339.95 in my area.


 yes here too

Better pics of what happened....luckily when the thing fell apart the chain didn't come around and catch any part of my body


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## bobdog2o02 (May 6, 2014)

You are lucky you weren't hurt,  that is FUBAR.


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## johnpma (May 6, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> You are lucky you weren't hurt,  that is FUBAR.


 especially as the throttle was wide open cutting a large trunk on the ground!! The way that whole case came apart makes me pretty nervous to ever operate a saw built like this!! I'd say Stihl really screwed up this time


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## Jags (May 6, 2014)

That is just craptastic.  Sadly, it appears that they simply omitted the second stud for a cap screw to be the back guide.


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## Jon1270 (May 6, 2014)

I wonder if you could add a second stud and use an MS250 sprocket cover...


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## splitoak (May 6, 2014)

I have two stihl saws..290 and 441c..love em both...but this is the kinda crap we have to deal with from big corps...yea its under warranty...but that cover coming off WOT could have been really ugly..glad u wernt hurt..


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## Prof (May 6, 2014)

I had the same thing happen to a 250 I bought last year. Fortunately I had been using a 310 for years and was nothing but thrilled with that saw, so I was already a big stihl  fan. I took the 250 back to the dealer and exchanged it for full credit toward a 261. Yeah, it was a bit disappointing that the 250 was so cheaply made and more cash out of pocket, but if the 261 was a woman, I'd leave my wife ;-)


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## salecker (May 6, 2014)

goofa said:


> Not much better with a  proffesional Grade ms460 melted piston 12 months later with approx 20 hrs on it. Sadly disappointed.


Did you find out what caused the meltdown?


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## Fins59 (May 7, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> I just checked the parts list and the 250 has the same sort of threaded-in stud, but it has 2 of them so each is under less stress.



I have a 250, purchased about 18 months  ago.  It has only 1 threaded stud and 1 unthreaded guide "stud",  that's about an 1/8" long.

I love my little 250 with EZ start.  I cut stacks of thick oak slab wood and it has plenty of power.  Not too heavy and it's user friendly, but now every time I use it I'll be thinking of what happened to Johnpma.

At some dealers (maybe all?), if you purchase a 6-pak of oil with saw, they add an extra year on the warranty.  Something to remember.


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## TimfromMA (May 7, 2014)

There is a blight in my area killing ash trees. When I bought my house, there were about a dozen dean and several more dying ash trees on my property. I bought a Husqvarna 350 at my local hardware store and spent nearly an an entire summer removing the dead and dying trees. The saw worked like a champ.

My brother burns wood and he was more than happy to come haul it all away.


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## DoubleB (May 7, 2014)

I bought a 251 a couple months ago, I have about 3 cords on it now.  

I'm kind of a novice, but when I saw the plastic cover arrangement, I asked the dealer how tight to tighten the nut, and they showed me by hand feel, which wasn't nearly as tight as I would normally crank on metal, or would have guessed has been enough to hold the bar in place and the cover on.  So I'm curious if you've been torquing pretty heavy on the nut (which I would have too), or if you were told to be lighter on it as I'm trying to be?

Either way, it's disappointing, I'm just hoping I'll be luckier...


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## goofa (May 7, 2014)

salecker said:


> Did you find out what caused the meltdown?



improper lubrication haha likely excuse because they can blame it on the consumer...... goes something like this... well i wasnt there when you mixed the gas so how do i know you put the proper amount of oil in.... psss  Im not too thrilled to say the least


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## salecker (May 7, 2014)

goofa said:


> improper lubrication haha likely excuse because they can blame it on the consumer...... goes something like this... well i wasnt there when you mixed the gas so how do i know you put the proper amount of oil in.... psss  Im not too thrilled to say the least


That sucks
 Time to find a better dealer.


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## goofa (May 7, 2014)

Yeah my thoughts exactly. wouldn't expect it from a small town local dealer who you have known him and his family all my life and my father grew up with him. time to use a different dealer is correct. And I need to write stihl a nastygram


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## Rock Crusher (May 7, 2014)

You would like to think they would have taken a fuel sample to verify the oil mix ratio/fuel quality.  Hopefully both cases get rectified by Stihl or the local/alternate dealer.  Good Luck!!


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## goofa (May 7, 2014)

The dealer did dump my fuel into a container side by side with his shop fuel and said mine looked weak. Because it was not the same blue as his. But I use a stihl HP ultra oil and it is green not blue.


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## Corey (May 7, 2014)

Was going to ask if you were sure it was a real Stihl and not one of the Chinese knockoffs running around.  But since you called Stihl and they are 'aware of the issue', I guess that points back to a true Stihl.  Based on this and the way people seem to report Stihl's melt down at practically the first vapors of fuel with a bit of alcohol in it, I think I'll stick with my old Husky and let it keep thrashing through chunks of hedge.


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## mstoelton (May 8, 2014)

No company is perfect, generally the quality of the Company can be best judged by how it reacts when a customer has a legitimate issue that needs to be resolved.

Someone at Stihl had a cost save idea to eliminate the 2nd stud on this particular home owner level saw (after all homeowners don't use them that much - right).  The cost save was minimal per saw but when the company is making thousands of them, they land a significant profit.  When these kinds of decisions are made, the company most likely does not consult their safety team, they don't consult legal. 

The value added value engineering (VA/VE) team has to find ways to reduce costs (Cheapen) the product.

Once these "value engineered" changes are implemented they are nearly impossible to reverse.  The cost saves won't be given up.

Sadly this is how product changes are implemented in business today.  

I don't own a Stihl saw, and likely won't.  I Have been on the sidelines watching this happen at a large US based tier I auto supplier, It is simply ridiculous.

My suggestion - Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) and write a letter to stihl explaining how and why they have lost a costomer.  Oh and buy a saw from a company like Dolmar or Johnsered preferably a professional level saw. 

Check all new saws to make sure there are two adjustment bolts.  This seems like something that we should not have to consider, but you see the outcome in the photos.

If the single stud were actually mounted in something metallic, this would likely not be an issue, at least not for a much longer time.

Single stud mounted in plastic, *in the part of the saw that will be subject to continuous adjustment by the consumer* - what are they thinking?  Rhetorical question - obviously they were not thinking.

If you purchased this saw from a local dealer, he should make it right by moving you into a new saw with full credit for what you paid for the junk.

If the local dealer won't do that then he is not your friend, and not someone you want to support and continue to do business with.  I would state it just in that way to the dealer.

If the dealer refuses to sell that model because of the defect, and more dealers do so as well, eventually the model will be replaced by one that is properly engineered.

The installation of the larger stud is simply an attempt to make the saw operable until it is out of the warrantee period.  Then you are screwed (no pun intended).


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## johnpma (May 9, 2014)

Update: 
Stihl-"Thank you for the purchase and use of a STIHL MS 251 Chain Saw. I am sorry to hear of the bar stud issue you are having, STIHL has a 7 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, it is only during that time that you qualify for a refund or exchange on your saw. STIHL has used a polymer housing for years over a range of saws and STIHL is not having a bar stud issue. With a purchase date of 12/13/2013 your saw is still under warranty and can be repaired at any STIHL Dealer. If the dealer has any questions have them contact the Northeast STIHL Technical Service Department"

Where is the emoticon for the "international hand signal" (middle finger) Done with Stihl

The fix is to put an oversize stud in the pulled out hole!! Great so what in 6months I can do this all over again!!??? And then what when the year is up and it's out of warranty I can begin to pay to fix this POS saw No thanks!! I really thought they were a better company than this


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## bobdog2o02 (May 9, 2014)

I would say they needed to replace the housing the studs are in.  I'll look at the parts break down and see if I can get the part # for you.


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## Beer Belly (May 9, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Update:
> Stihl-"Thank you for the purchase and use of a STIHL MS 251 Chain Saw. I am sorry to hear of the bar stud issue you are having, STIHL has a 7 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, it is only during that time that you qualify for a refund or exchange on your saw. STIHL has used a polymer housing for years over a range of saws and STIHL is not having a bar stud issue. With a purchase date of 12/13/2013 your saw is still under warranty and can be repaired at any STIHL Dealer. If the dealer has any questions have them contact the Northeast STIHL Technical Service Department"
> 
> Where is the emoticon for the "international hand signal" (middle finger) Done with Stihl
> ...


 I'm speechless........it seems that Stihl is going the same route as GM....cheap cheap cheap


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## mike van (May 9, 2014)

I never cared for the one stud bar mounting on any saw, it's just  super light duty.  The McCulloh Eagar Beaver comes to mind.  I think people tend to really crank down on a one bolt bar, more than a two bolt setup.  I bought my first Stihl new in 1972, I was using it two days ago. I have an 028 & 200T too.   I also bought a new MS660 a year ago, nothing cheap about that saw.  Stihl is all I would buy.


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## AK13 (May 9, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> I would say they needed to replace the housing the studs are in.  I'll look at the parts break down and see if I can get the part # for you.



I agree. I would refuse to accept a half-a$$ repair. If it is repaired to "factory new" like condition at least you can sell it easily enough. Its disappointing to heard Stihl's response to this issue.


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## Jon1270 (May 9, 2014)

I don't get it.  Why is an oversized stud "half-a$$ed?"  Properly installed, a larger-diameter stud would spread the same amount of stress over a larger area,  i.e. be better than new.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 9, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Update:
> Stihl-"Thank you for the purchase and use of a STIHL MS 251 Chain Saw. I am sorry to hear of the bar stud issue you are having, STIHL has a 7 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, it is only during that time that you qualify for a refund or exchange on your saw. STIHL has used a polymer housing for years over a range of saws and STIHL is not having a bar stud issue. With a purchase date of 12/13/2013 your saw is still under warranty and can be repaired at any STIHL Dealer. If the dealer has any questions have them contact the Northeast STIHL Technical Service Department"
> 
> Where is the emoticon for the "international hand signal" (middle finger) Done with Stihl
> ...



You bought a low end saw.  I promise the low end saws from every other manufacturer are cheap, chinsy, and under engineered in their own special way.


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## goofa (May 9, 2014)

Good luck dealing with northeast technical support. They are handy as a sore ass and very unprofessional. Hope you don't deal with rich.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 9, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You bought a low end saw.  I promise the low end saws from every other manufacturer are cheap, chinsy, and under engineered in their own special way.



I will agree with this.......but why are there low end saws.  Cant a company make SOLID products and just have other models with improved performance.  I would trust my FIL's electric craftsman that has never been maintained over this Stihl in question simply on a safety standpoint.  Low end should never be at a sacrifice of safety...........


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## BrotherBart (May 9, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You bought a low end saw.  I promise the low end saws from every other manufacturer are cheap, chinsy, and under engineered in their own special way.



One could be forgiven for thinking that a $399 saw ain't gonna be bottom of the barrel. Or toss the bar. My $85 Chusky hasn't tossed the bar.


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## Beer Belly (May 10, 2014)

To the left of the Bar Adjustment is a Torx Bolt.....is it possible to remove it and put in a second Stud.....I believe that is where a second stud would otherwise go.....on edit: then you'd have to deal with the cover.....drill a second hole, maybe a cover from another Stihl with has two studs ??


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## Jon1270 (May 10, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> One could be forgiven for thinking that a $399 saw ain't gonna be bottom of the barrel.



Sure, but this is one failure we're talking about, not a clear pattern of failures.  We've have it from the OP that one CSR indicated Stihl is "aware of the problem," while a contradictory email from Stihl indicates there is no "bar stud issue."  None of this is statistically meaningful.

Big generalizations seem premature.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 10, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> One could be forgiven for thinking that a $399 saw ain't gonna be bottom of the barrel. Or toss the bar. My $85 Chusky hasn't tossed the bar.



Those little buzz-turds are going for $399 now?  I'm not sure if that makes me feel more or less sympathy for the OP.


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## BrotherBart (May 10, 2014)

My local ACE Hardware is selling it for $329. Suggested list on it is $399.


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## mike van (May 10, 2014)

It would be nice to know just how many foot pounds  it would take to pull one of those studs out.  Also the dealer repair -  If someone has 329.00 to blow, we could find out -  There's a show on TV called "breaking Point"  maybe they'd do it -


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## Grateful11 (May 11, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Correct!! However I'm a mechanical engineer that specializes in the plastics industry......a stainless stud threaded into plastic is an extremely poor design as the plastic will always be the weak link. If they wanted to use the plastic parts then at the lease they could have installed an oversize stainless thread insert into the plastic housing to take some of the torque of the screw...... you could even pinch the bar, give the saw a little twist and pop the bar stud
> 
> As far as resale to another consumer I tend to think of how I would feel......


I agree. As a retired Journeyman Machinist I'd say that's a pretty poor design for something that is suppose to hold a saw bar on. Even my little Canon P&S camera has a metal threaded insert molded into the camera housing for a tripod mount.

OT: On another note I owned a MS250 for about 2 years, was never impressed with the saw and sold it but that's another story.


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## DanCorcoran (May 11, 2014)

Gosh, now I'm kinda hopin' my 250 craters, so I can join the club!


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## aansorge (May 13, 2014)

My 250 has been very good.  Still (stihl?) I like my used 360 better!

Advice: scrounge Craigslist until a good professional model comes around.

Sell the 251 after above has been accomplished.


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## johnpma (May 14, 2014)

Heard back from Stihl they will exchange it for a "Wood Boss 271" Anyone familiar with this model?


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## Jon1270 (May 14, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Heard back from Stihl they will exchange it for a "Wood Boss 271" Anyone familiar with this model?



Not directly, but it looks like the next model up from the 251, i.e. another plastic-chassis homeowner saw but slightly more powerful and with 2 bar nuts instead of one.  In your position, I'd take that deal.


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## Jags (May 14, 2014)

Take the deal.  It is a positive step in all directions.


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## pma1123 (May 14, 2014)

Just recieved the latest Stihl flyer; it lists the sale price on the 271 w/20" bar at $399.99.  Would that put you ahead of your investment for the current 251?


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## Bigg_Redd (May 14, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Heard back from Stihl they will exchange it for a "Wood Boss 271" Anyone familiar with this model?



Take the deal.  It's twice the saw.


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## missedbass (May 16, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Heard back from Stihl they will exchange it for a "Wood Boss 271" Anyone familiar with this model?


 Great saw for me so far. no problems at all


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## johnpma (May 19, 2014)

Yeah would put me ahead but could care less I'm a homeowner that cuts 5-7 cords of wood a year and uses it around the home. Asking for a saw that stays assembled is not asking too much. I want a homeowner saw that will do what it is interned to do the local Stihl Rep gets it The Stihl Corp. is disappointing to talk with.


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## bobdog2o02 (May 19, 2014)

I'm no expert but 5-6 cords per year sounds more like a farm/ranch grade saw.  I think the homeowner saw is more designed for cutting up downed limbs and trimming/ pruning.  Not for hours of bucking and felling.  

Dont get me wrong though, this should never be a point of failure.  I would think the homeowner saw should have been safe and the bar shouldnt FALL OFF, i would expect that grade of saw to have lower QC on engine components and a less robust chasis...?  dont know.  kinda FUBAR for you though.


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## johnpma (May 22, 2014)

271 is twice the saw as the 251. As for "home owner" I'm guessing that is subjective. My dad cut wood with a Poulan back in the 70's that he purchased from a retail store. It lasted him a lifetime.


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## Drvn4wood (May 22, 2014)

I have a 251 with about 15 tanks through it with no problems yet. That said, if I had it to do over I would have purchased the 362 even though it is substantially more money and saw. I'm a new home owner and didn't do enough research before I bought because I needed a saw quick.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 22, 2014)

johnpma said:


> As for "*home owner*" I'm guessing that is subjective.



That is Stihl's designation, not something cut from whole cloth


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## OldLumberKid (May 23, 2014)

bobdog2o02 said:


> ...  Cant a company make SOLID products *and just have other models with improved performance*.  ... *Low end should never be at a sacrifice of safety*...........



Would tend to agree with this, especially with Stihl's name, and a list price of $399.
kinda disturbing.


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## Pennsyltucky Chris (May 24, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> You bought a low end saw.  I promise the low end saws from every other manufacturer are cheap, chinsy, and under engineered in their own special way.



I think the OP's point is that for approximately $350, the saw should last more than a day. And a low-end saw shouldn't cost $350. Period.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 25, 2014)

Pennsyltucky Chris said:


> I think the OP's point is that for approximately $350, the saw should last more than a day. And a low-end saw shouldn't cost $350. Period.



I suppose I agree but it's not like Stihl hid the fact that he bought a low end saw.  It's right on their web site: "homeowner."  

Stihl built it's reputation on it's pro saws.  The fact that they can build, market and sell cheap-o saws on the coat tails of it's pro saws says more about the consumer than it does Stihl.  If you want a pro saw, buy a pro saw.  The End.


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## Jon1270 (May 25, 2014)

Pennsyltucky Chris said:


> ...the saw should last more than a day.



OP's indicated his saw was about 5 months old when it broke, with 16 hours of runtime. I think that counts for more than a day.


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## Fins59 (May 25, 2014)

Talking to a friend the other day.  He has a Stihl 180 that he won at a car show raffle.  He was removing the bar the other day and the whole stud turned out of the housing.  Didn't break, but just turned out.  He has a tendency to really crank down and over tighten things.  He put it back in using thread locker. 

Mentioned this stud deal to the local Stihl dealer service guy and he stated that "over tightening" is the culprit.  Even on the 2 stud saws he services.

On my 250, it doesn't have a "nut" to tighten bar cover, but has a handle that flips open and you loosen/tighten using that handle.  I just tighten mine "hand-tight" and hope that will prevent any problem.  Actually with that type of tightening with the handle, you can only tighten it hand-tight.  Maybe that's one reason Stihl is using the handle deal instead of the nut.


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## Osagebndr (May 25, 2014)

Had to jump in on this one. I was thoroughly  disappointed with my ms271. My neighbor has one and loves  it. It seems that  Stihl  has had to change designs due to EPA  standards and it has effected some quality issues with some of their products. Not only Stihl but all the saw manufacturers have had to do this. The one stud feature on that saw is really not good for bar tensioning (or any other). Hope you enjoy your 271. And remember  homeowner grade means light use only or so it seems.


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## Osagebndr (May 25, 2014)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention ms290 new was $325, ms271 new $400. Ms 290 to me was the toughest saw and most reliable saw I ever owned without all the new tech stuff  or quality issues( it was built in to that one)


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## fire_man (May 25, 2014)

johnpma said:


> Update:
> Stihl-"Thank you for the purchase and use of a STIHL MS 251 Chain Saw. I am sorry to hear of the bar stud issue you are having, STIHL has a 7 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, it is only during that time that you qualify for a refund or exchange on your saw. STIHL has used a polymer housing for years over a range of saws and STIHL is not having a bar stud issue. With a purchase date of 12/13/2013 your saw is still under warranty and can be repaired at any STIHL Dealer. If the dealer has any questions have them contact the Northeast STIHL Technical Service Department"
> 
> Where is the emoticon for the "international hand signal" (middle finger) Done with Stihl
> ...




Wow, this post almost made me spit out my coffee in anger. Stihl clearly is behaving in a large company arrogant fashion. Stihl is claiming this is not a defect, but any 5th grader could tell you it's a bad design. You should check your state laws, there may be a defective product clause similar to this:

*Defective Merchandise:*

*A store, however, cannot use its disclosed policy to refuse the return of defective merchandise. When the item purchased is defective, you can choose a repair, replacement or refund. This right is contained in the Implied Warranty of Merchantability law. Under that law, merchants cannot limit your remedies. In addition, this means that if a merchant chooses an "All Sales Final" return policy, it must disclose that policy without limiting your rights. For example, the disclosure of the return policy must be similar to a posting which reads:*

*"All Sales Final, With the Exception of Defective Goods." (940 CMR 6.12) 
*
Reading your later posts, It looks like eventually Stihl came through and is doing the right thing. Now if they would just fix their broken design..


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## Giles (May 25, 2014)

It doesn't matter how many bar mounting nuts you have, be it one or "five", any one can break or strip by over tightening!
As far as how many nuts is necessary----In my personal opinion, one of the best, high performance chainsaws ever made is --was ---the Stihl 200t.
It has ONE bar mounting nut. Two bar studs serve as a "key" to hold bar. With One bar stud, the stud is mounted in a raised "keyway" that supports bar.


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## HybridFyre (May 25, 2014)

I've been very happy with my 271 so far. I have about 6 tanks of gas through it so far and about 2+ cords so not a ton. The only thing I will say is every few tank fills remove the bar and fully blow out the chain groove (not sure of technical name). It gets gunked up fairly easily and then it won't oil properly. I didn't keep on top of it one time and my bar and chain started smoking a bit. Cleaned her up and she was fine after that.

I'm running an 18" bar. She always cuts well and rarely bogs down unless I really push her. I'm not 100% sure I'd run a 20" bar though I feel like that may be pushing it a bit if you have some tough wood.


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## Osagebndr (May 25, 2014)

Get your money back and get the echo CS-590. Supposed to be a very good saw and same money with more ccs


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## Prof (May 25, 2014)

Not sure if this was covered yet, but if you paid by credit card, you may have some protection from the credit card company itself. It would at least be worth a call. I'm with the others--this is bad behavior from Stihl. I get that the pro saws are far superior in their build, but a homeowner saw should not be junk or have obvious design flaws. If Stihl would have made this right, there would have been a good chance you would have upgraded at some point--now they lost a customer--bad on them.


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## fire_man (May 25, 2014)

If Stihl has a repair kit to fix this problem then they are essentially admitting there is a design defect.


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## Osagebndr (May 25, 2014)

A repair kit? Wow, for a $350 saw . I'm a Stihl guy like their older saws a lot, but wow


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## Bigg_Redd (May 25, 2014)

Osagebndr said:


> A repair kit? Wow, for a $350 saw . I'm a Stihl guy like their older saws a lot, but wow



Deep breathes - Their old home owner saws were sh_t too


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## BrotherBart (May 25, 2014)

Every time I see posts about Stihl saws I think about the guy that hasn't been around for three years now but had the best nym on the site. "stihltheone".


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## rkusek (May 26, 2014)

I just bought a ms250 last month after reading several favorable posts by 5 cord a year folks like me.  It has 2 bar nuts and ran well the one time I used it.  My 7 year old $100 Harbor Freight mcculloch requires constant tinkering and when I fixed one issue something else breaks.  I did buy the 6.pack of oil which extends the warranty to 2 years but reading crap like this makes me wish I had gone another route.


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## missedbass (May 26, 2014)

Osagebndr said:


> Had to jump in on this one. I was thoroughly  disappointed with my ms271. My neighbor has one and loves  it. It seems that  Stihl  has had to change designs due to EPA  standards and it has effected some quality issues with some of their products. Not only Stihl but all the saw manufacturers have had to do this. The one stud feature on that saw is really not good for bar tensioning (or any other). Hope you enjoy your 271. And remember  homeowner grade means light use only or so it seems.


 why were you disappointed ?


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## Osagebndr (May 26, 2014)

Had oiler issues the first week I had it. Took 6wks. 3 burnt chains and a ruined bar to  finally get it fixed. Every te I use I have to tinker with it or put the chain back on after it falls off or the nose on my 18" bar plugs up( something new) and I have to tear it down and clean it before I have 1/2 a Rick cut. Very irritating


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## maple1 (May 26, 2014)

My $60 Kijiji MS250 has been flawless in the short one year or so I have run it. I'm no lumberjack but I did run 3 tanks of fuel through it in less than 2 hours in one session last weekend - so it does get used.


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## Pennsyltucky Chris (May 26, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> I suppose I agree but it's not like Stihl hid the fact that he bought a low end saw.  It's right on their web site: "homeowner."
> 
> Stihl built it's reputation on it's pro saws.  The fact that they can build, market and sell cheap-o saws on the coat tails of it's pro saws says more about the consumer than it does Stihl.  If you want a pro saw, buy a pro saw.  The End.



I agree, although I like my 250. It's light weight and great for re-sizing splits that came from rounds that were to large. I've even fell a few trees that were under 2 feet in diameter, It just took a sharp chain and some muscle. That said,  I think My next saw is going to be 70+, and I'm thinking Husqy.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 26, 2014)

Pennsyltucky Chris said:


> That said, I think My next saw is going to be 70+, and *I'm thinking Husqy*.



I'm actually a fan of the pre autotune 372s, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Husqvarna makes better low end saws


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## BrotherBart (May 26, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> but don't fool yourself into thinking that Husqvarna makes better low end saws



They do.


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## Bigg_Redd (May 26, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> They do.



No they don't


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## fire_man (May 26, 2014)

They do too.


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## Osagebndr (May 26, 2014)

So does echo, but lets not start a war here. Homeowner doesn't mean junk it just means for meanial  tasks or light work


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## Osagebndr (May 26, 2014)

So does echo, but lets not start a war here. Homeowner doesn't mean junk it just means for meanial  tasks or light work


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## Osagebndr (May 26, 2014)

Oops didnt post rite


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## Bigg_Redd (May 26, 2014)

fire_man said:


> They do too.



No they don't


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## bobdog2o02 (May 27, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> No they don't



They sooooooo do.


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## HybridFyre (May 27, 2014)

Osagebndr said:


> Had oiler issues the first week I had it. Took 6wks. 3 burnt chains and a ruined bar to  finally get it fixed. Every te I use I have to tinker with it or put the chain back on after it falls off or the nose on my 18" bar plugs up( something new) and I have to tear it down and clean it before I have 1/2 a Rick cut. Very irritating



Interesting. So far the oiler is my only complaint on my 271.  I've run about 6 tanks and fill the oil reservoir every time. The last run the bar and chain started smoking.I pulled it apart and the oiler hole was free of particles and oil flowed fine but the bar groove was all gunked up and I had to clean it out with a blower on my compressor and then she ran fine again. Is this similar to what you experienced or was your oil hole (no idea on the technical term for it) plugged on the inside or something different? Thanks.


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## Osagebndr (May 27, 2014)

My oiler was putting out some oil just not enough to keep up with the saw. But my hole that the oil comes out of was never plugged, ended up having a different oiler put in under warranty after my bar and chain(s) got smoked. Sounds like similar issue tho with the smoke and all that . Need to make sure that the air hole that operates the oiler does not get pluggedup


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## Beer Belly (May 27, 2014)

I had to crank mine up......hole / screw bottom of the saw


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## johnpma (May 28, 2014)

Cut a cord over the weekend with the 271 much better saw. The Stihl Rep is sending the saw (251) back to their research center to be reviewed. Be it over tightening, heat generated within the cover weakening the plastic who knows. However this is the weak link on the saw period, and dangerous IMO. Had I know yes I would not have originally purchased it. However there are many of these out there, and if I stop one person from being injured then I've done my part.

I don't care if it's a top of the line pro model, or a bottom of the barrel home-owner model the saw is not suppose to come apart period. $350.00 is not a lot of money, but it's real money. We cut hundreds of cords with our old poulan "home-owner" saw and it was running fine the day my dad got out of burning wood.

What we have is a large corporation who wants maximum profit while reducing costs. The dealer I purchased the saw from is pulling all the 251's off the shelf and sending them back


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## Jags (May 28, 2014)

It sounds like you were made "whole" again.  That is the ultimate endgame. It sucks that you had to go through the paces. Trust me - there is probably an engineer or two that are shaking in their boots right now. No company will intentionally put out a product that will tarnish their name.

In honor of saving this thread for future searches (good info in the thread) I am going to give it closure. Glad to see that you are happy with the new saw.


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