# got a price on a o.w.b.



## squib (Feb 24, 2011)

went to a hawken energy dealer & got a price on a  he-2100 [ the big one }  new model with the sliding by pass damper 

$5800.00  out the door....



is that a good price.  ??

herman


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## rkusek (Feb 24, 2011)

Never heard of that brand.  I see you have posted several times.  I thought I wanted an outdoor wood boiler about 5 years ago after coming across a Central Boiler ad in a magazine.  When I discovered this Forum, I soon realized that a OWB was a bad idea and a gassifier or Garn was what I needed.  I spent about a grand less for and EKO 40 than what you are proposing.  $5800 for a no-name OWB is quite a bit.  A quick search on the web pulls up a Youtube video of a 2 year old leaking model.  Was installed by the dealer he bought it from and of course when it failed they avoided him like the plague not wanting to deal with him.  Save your money and buy something more reputable.  I wouldn't want to flush $5800 down the toliet.


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## bpirger (Feb 24, 2011)

I talked to a Hawken dealer down my way and looked at the units.  Nothing remarkable to comment on.  If your situation is that you have to cut your own wood, and you don't have a large, free supply, you will be much happier in the end with a gasifying unit.  You will lose a lot less wood, burn much more efficiently, and have a unit that should last a long time.  Yep, it will cost a bit more by the time you are done....but you will have a better situation.  If you are in the tree business and have endless "free" wood, and smoke output isn't an issue where you live, than you may be happy with the OWB.  I bought a Garn.  I fire once a day (typically two loads of wood, over the course of 2-3 hours or so), and heat my 2500 sqft radiant house and all my DHW.  But I have also invested 4 times that amount in the Garn, PEX, pumps, copper, etc.


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## muncybob (Feb 24, 2011)

I also thought I was  in the market for an OWB 2+ years ago...did some research and came across Hawken. It seemed at the time there were a lot of unhappy owners of that brand, so along with the above info just be sure you really check them out from current/previous owner's comments that are easy enough to find on the internet. I would not go by just the dealer's viewpoint for obvious reasons!


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## rkusek (Feb 24, 2011)

If you are going to put an OWB on a pad near your home then I'm sure you are already planning on insulated UG Pex anyway and know what that costs.  I think a small shed big enough to handler a boiler, 1000gal propane tank for storage, and a nice pile of wood could be had for around $2000.  I you built yourself, I think the whole project could be done for less $10k which is probably only $2-3k more than what you would end up spending getting the OWB set up.  Not having a wood mess in the house is great and that may be what you are thinking.  I wish I had done a small shed and had full use of my barn rather than 2 propane tanks and a boiler taking up space.  Plus, I'm constantly sweeping up wood mess and a little bit of ash.  Every now and then a little smoke escapes while loading which is annoying.  I can't imagine having it in the house.  While it is true their is heat gained from having it in the barn but I would rather have the small shed and be able to burn year around.  This is probably better for the boiler too.  Many here burn 1 load a week to keep storage hot enough for their hot water needs.  I plan to add a hot tub next year and this would have heated it for free plus saved me probably $400/yr heating DHW.  The shed would do an amazing job of getting your wood dried out much faster than the typical 2 year seasoning process.  That is one problem many of us with gassers have is getting ahead on the wood supply, especially the first couple years.  The OWB will burn wet wood these won't.


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## Frozen Canuck (Feb 24, 2011)

Pretty much standard OWB there. I see this one stands on stilts/legs, that will create more stand by losses as it is exposed on all sides to the great outdoors. I also see that it has 2-1" tapings one for supply one for return, you will have a hard time moving enough heat through the 1" tube that will hook up to that 1" taping. Thats a real bottle neck in delivery on that unit. FWIW I would take the same budget & start shopping for gassers either through the banner ads here or other method. You will all other things being equal, get longer more trouble free service while burning less than half the wood to heat the same area, with very little smoke as a gasser is designed to burn the wood gas, while an OWB is designed to push those same gases out the stack. Add to that the speed at which the OWB's are facing legislation that basically forces owners to shut them down & this becomes an easy choice. Invest your money in a gasser that wont have your neighbors calling the EPA or local authorities every time you fire it.


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## jebatty (Feb 24, 2011)

I had an OWB, replaced it with the Tarm, and now use about 1/3 the amount of wood and get a lot more heat.


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## laynes69 (Feb 24, 2011)

Since you are in ohio, I would look into this. I don't know anything about gasification boilers, but those on here will. It looks to be a complete system.

http://mansfield.craigslist.org/grd/2219548216.html


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## heaterman (Feb 24, 2011)

laynes69 said:
			
		

> Since you are in ohio, I would look into this. I don't know anything about gasification boilers, but those on here will. It looks to be a complete system.
> 
> http://mansfield.craigslist.org/grd/2219548216.html



A little misinformation on that ad.  It's an EKO and they are made in eastern Europe not Finland. Looks to be a 40 or a 60.


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## leaddog (Feb 25, 2011)

heaterman said:
			
		

> laynes69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I think it is a 60 but I doubt that it would keep that house warm for a day with that storage tank as it looks to me to be only a 300gal. Could be wrong. If it's close and easy to move could be a good deal. Make an offer
leaddog


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## rkusek (Feb 25, 2011)

Storage tank does look small especially if that is the expansion tank for it.  No way they paid $10,000 for it.  Probably counting the tank and HXs or maybe the installation as well.  I would say no more than $4000 with the boiler being used 2 years and if you can re-use some of the other components.  3500 for boiler and 500 for the rest of the stuff.

EKO PRICES
40-$5550.00
60-$6350.00


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## squib (Feb 26, 2011)

thank youn all for the info. 

huskers,  gasser or garn what is the difference.  ?

jebatty,  tarm.  ?

out in the country, plenty of free wood. smoke will not be an issue. i can do all the work myself, the dealer priced me a  { what i will call a total  pkg   

owb, all the piping, valves, pumps, heat xchangers,  hot water, house, & one for the barn, chimney,water filter.   $ 10 grand. ???

what do you think.  ??

herman


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## muncybob (Feb 26, 2011)

Herman, $10k including underground lines?  If you have much of a distance to run the lines then the price alone seems reasonable. I would be  concerned about quality of product and the trade off of 2 to 3 times as much work to process firewood. We also have lots of "free" wood available to us and while I actually enjoy scrounging my firewood there are better things in life to spend my spare time.


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## woodsmaster (Feb 26, 2011)

herman said:
			
		

> thank youn all for the info.
> 
> huskers,  gasser or garn what is the difference.  ?
> 
> ...





Depending on your situation you may be able to do a gasser for around $10,000 if you can do the install yourself. Then you will have a long lasting unit that uses about 1/2 the wood.


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## squib (Feb 26, 2011)

muncybob,

250 ft. of 1 in. pipe, 153k. heater for the barn & all the other stuff. i`m sure there wiil be misc. materials i wiil have to buy, so mays well say @ 11k. total.

he-2100  says heat 10k.sq. ft. 358k. btu, holds 368 gal. water, 2900 lb.

herman


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## woodsmaster (Feb 26, 2011)

herman said:
			
		

> muncybob,
> 
> 250 ft. of 1 in. pipe, 153k. heater for the barn & all the other stuff. i`m sure there wiil be misc. materials i wiil have to buy, so mays well say @ 11k. total.
> 
> ...



What kind of underground pipe ?


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## Floydian (Feb 26, 2011)

Hi Herman-

Here is my opinion:

Don't spend a penny without doing some serious research right here on this site. This is absolutely the best source of info on hydronic wood heating. Take advantage of it before spending the big bucks.

A heat loss calculation is the foundation of any heating system. Without this its basically an expensive guessing game. 

A dealer trying to sell a 358k btu boiler and at the time 1" underground is a major red flag.

Good luck in your research,

Noah


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## pulse (Feb 26, 2011)

I will chime in here as the odd ball. I own a hawken owb, I am happy with mine, I am in my 4th season and it is the smaller one. I am heating my house (2800 sq ft), my garage (600 sq ft) and dhw for 3. I also live in the county, and I have a easy access to wood. I will burn around 10 full cord of seasoned wood this year and I live in SW Michigan. For comparison last year I burned about 8 cord but March was quite warm. Smoke has been a non issue with the dry wood. If you plan on burning green figure on a ton of stinky smoke. The things I like about the boiler are how simple everything is. Common parts are available at grainger although so far I have not needed any. Instalation was simple, just make sure you use logstor underground pipe. 

I have to load the boiler once in 24 hrs if it is above 35, 1 and a half if it is in the teens and 20's, twice if it is less than 10. We keep the house at 73 when we are here 69 when we are not. Preparing the wood is simple, as long as I can handle it and it fits in the door there is no splitting. My ideal wood is 8"-10" dia and 3 foot long. The way I cut it only takes me 4 days to get my wood for the following year. I start ONE fire in mid October which lasts till mid April. I clean ashes out about once a month. 

With all that said, a true gasser is a much more efficent appliance, but for me the simpicity and wood access makes the owb a better choice for me. If you have to buy your wood and there are not cheap pulp loads available, I would not go with the owb. Also beware of owb sq foot ratings, they mean very little and are usually overrated by 25%-50%. Good luck.


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## Como (Feb 26, 2011)

400,000 btu's needs 2 inch insulated pex which is about $60 a foot.


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## rkusek (Feb 26, 2011)

Herman, 

Trust me read up some more on this stuff before you spend any money.  The dealer sounds like the typical OWB salesman many others have experienced.  All they sell is 1" unsulated Pex regardless of the size of the boiler and the amount of heat that needs to be moved.  If you're 250 feet is going in separate directions from the boiler (house & shed) then you may be OK.  While PULSE above may have had good luck so far (in his 4th yr), the track record on OWB as a whole is not good as far as longetivity.   I think they say most rust out before by 6th year and the stainless ones maybe a couple years longer before they develop cracks.  If you were talking 2500 for OWB and 5000 total  (but not $11k!!) you could probably justify the payback before it failed.   Your paying Cadillac money and getting a Yugo.  Search Google for failed OWB and see how many people were left holding the back when a problem developed.


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## squib (Feb 27, 2011)

what is logstor pipe.  ??

the 250ft. of pipe will be split @ in 1/2 of  one line going to the house & water heater r & the other going to the barn & water heater.  the pipe i priced is what 

hawken sells 1in. wrapped in bubble wrap in a 4in. pipe. i asked the dealer about 11/4 or bigger pipe, he said do not need it 1in. will do the job. i do not know 

how to put a link to there web site.

i have talked to hawken & central boiler people who have there units { installed locally }  & have only heard good things about both units.  dealer told me if you ever have a major 

problem with the unit i.e., leak, etc. he will bring me out a new unit & send the bad one back to the factory { verbal } 

a gasser unit is out of the question to much money. being out in the country wood & smoke is a non issue

please keep the comments & suggestion coming as i will keep searching. it was good to hear from someone that has the hawken unit in operation & not from around here.

the hawken unit is a forced draft, central boiler is natural draft,  one draft any worse than the other. ??

herman


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## woodsmaster (Feb 27, 2011)

DONT USE THE BUBBLE WRAP PIPE no matter what you go with, You will be heating the ground. Read the sticky on underground pipe at the top of the boiler forum page. You will pay a lot more for good pipe but burn a lot less wood.


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## Como (Feb 27, 2011)

Logstor is a brand name for insulated pipe, there are others.

Bubble wrapped pipe> He wants to charge you $11,000 and wrap the pipe in bubble wrap?

http://hawkenenergy.com/index.php

You will see that they specify well insulated pipe.

Basically they are a steel box surrounded by a water jacket with a fan and a water pump. They will provide heat, admittedly at a low efficiency with the resultant smoke and pollutants.

If you are looking at the bigger one I just do not understand how you can move that much heat through a one inch pipe with such a small pump. My pump is 240v, 2 inch for  a slightly higher load.

To size a unit you need to know the heat load, presumably the Dealer did a Manual J calculation, what were the results for the two buildings.


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## nrford (Feb 27, 2011)

herman said:
			
		

> went to a hawken energy dealer & got a price on a  he-2100 [ the big one }  new model with the sliding by pass damper
> 
> $5800.00  out the door....
> 
> ...



  Are you the "candyman" I see your post on Outdoor Wood Furnace Info. Just read all the bad comments on there about Hawken OWB's that says alot about their reputation. Around these parts they are very poorly regarded. I looked at OWB's and researched them for about 60 days. I decided against them and going to go with a gassifier with Lambda technology.(Effecta,(most likely) Vigas, or Froling) They just made alot more sense to me, especially after seeing a couple in operation.


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## Como (Feb 27, 2011)

OUCH indeed

http://outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com/forum/index.php?topic=172.0

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/60632.htm


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## squib (Mar 1, 2011)

master of fire,

read that what a mess. dealer did not come to home & do a heat loss.

nford,

yes. i have not found anyone around here with a gsser, this county is mostly rural, i have seen am lot of owd in the yards while driving around.

after all the comments i`m back up on the fence. not sure if i mentioned it , home is  { total 3700 sf.  ft. barn is 3500. i won`t be heating all the barn  it wiil be sectioned off to some xtent.

herman


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## Como (Mar 1, 2011)

Find out what the heating load will be for both buildings.

What will be th method of heating both buildings, forced air, raidiant etc etc

Then you need somewhere to locate the boiler, presumably in or near the barn, where is the wood supply.

No matter what boiler the re will be trenching and insulated pipe, the size will depend on the heat load.

If you end up going the OWB route, there are better ones out there. And better dealers.

Insulation and infiltration should be addressed first, smaller boiler, smaller pipe everything gets more manageable.


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## shawntitan (Mar 1, 2011)

woodsmaster said:
			
		

> DONT USE THE BUBBLE WRAP PIPE no matter what you go with, You will be heating the ground. Read the sticky on underground pipe at the top of the boiler forum page. You will pay a lot more for good pipe but burn a lot less wood.


Seconded, a buddy of mine is melting snow with that stuff, buried 24" under the ground... don't buy it!


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## RowCropRenegade (Mar 2, 2011)

Herman, if seeing a Garn in action would help you out, I'm in southwest Ohio.


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## Prosecond (Mar 2, 2011)

Craigs list ad has been deleted.  Who bought it?


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