# White wormy larvae under bark of firewood



## colsmith (Dec 24, 2007)

We have many times found flat white wormy looking things under the bark of our firewood.  They are clearly eating the material between the bark and the 'wood' part.  They seem to spread through a pile somewhat as well when the infected wood is piled with others.  These white larvae wormy things tend to loosen the bark such that it generally falls off when splitting the wood, thus revealing the problem.  Sometimes they seem to eat into the wood itself and make holes, probably depends what time of borer or beetle or whatever it is.   Hubby worries that these wormy things coming into the house in firewood could travel into the wood frame of our hearth or even into the wood frame of our house, and that they would eat those things.  I think they only like trees with bark and wouldn't be keen on dried lumber, but I don't really know.   Please advise!   Hubby is worried about piling such wood on our front porch, too.  And should we worry about our live trees near the wood piles? 

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Lignums (Dec 24, 2007)

Powder Post Beetles.  Mine seen to have went the way of the dodo now that it is freezing out.   From what I have read, don't bring the firewood indoors until it is ready to use.  However, don't panic if you do, they say that it takes a long time for any problem to occur, and that they like wood that is above 13% moisture, so hopefully, they do not like my joists...




A very interesting read on the subject down here.




http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef616.asp


----------



## jpl1nh (Dec 24, 2007)

There are many types of "worms" the larval stage of primarily beetle species which inhabit the space between bark and wood.  That particular area of a tree is especially rich in nutrients and tends to hold moisture making it a great neighborhood to raise beetle kids in.  In dealing with insects, always the main concern is when colonies or large populations become established and self perpetuating.  In order for those larva which are not at all mobile to be a real threat, they would need to mature, hatch, reproduce, and begin to lay eggs in the wood of your home.  For many beetle species, this is an annual cycle.  The larvae develop where the eggs have been laid, they do not migrate to other areas in that stage.  The larva cannot reproduce or multiply without maturing into beetles.  What you are finding in your woodpile is from last year's active aduts laying eggs.  You have months to burn the wood before the larvae start to mature.  When they do mature, they will be seeking tree with bark to lay eggs in, not your home.  The most serious insect pests to watch for in your home are termites and carpenter ants.  Both are more likely to be introduced from moist wood piles stacked for long periods against or very near your home than from well dried and protected firewood kept off the ground or properly seasoned firewood kept in your home for brief periods of time.  Properly seasoned wood stacked on a porch, covered and protected, during the winter months is not a likely source for either carpenter ants, termites, or powder post beetles since they are relatively inactive in cold weather, especially temps below freezing.  It would be best to stack no more on your porch than you will use during your heating season.


----------



## mikeathens (Dec 24, 2007)

Just think of all those Btus being eaten by the larvae  I wouldn't worry about it.  My chickes LOVE to eat those things.  Like already stated, just don't bring the stuff in the house until you are close to needing to burn it.  You'll note they are sluggish, if not completely motionless, when it's cold.


----------



## Sandor (Dec 24, 2007)

Good info above.

I found that by keeping the wood pile covered year round, there are much less insects living in the wood.


----------



## JimWalshin845 (Dec 24, 2007)

Sandor said:
			
		

> Good info above.
> 
> I found that by keeping the wood pile covered year round, there are much less insects living in the wood.



Yep.... most insects need a water source, so splitting will expose them and ruin their homes and keepin the wood dry will force them to go other places.


----------



## Gooserider (Dec 26, 2007)

Burning beetles makes BTU's... :coolgrin: 

Gooserider


----------



## Girl (Dec 26, 2007)

Someone told me she had wood so infested that she could hear them chomping.


----------



## JimWalshin845 (Dec 26, 2007)

Girl said:
			
		

> Someone told me she had wood so infested that she could hear them chomping.



Anyone watch Survivor Man... Les Stroud could eat for a year!


----------



## Girl (Dec 26, 2007)

Jim Walsh said:
			
		

> Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL.
They ended up giving it away to a neighbor who was more than happy to take it.


----------



## DiscoInferno (Dec 26, 2007)

Girl said:
			
		

> Someone told me she had wood so infested that she could hear them chomping.



There are definitely certain species that loudly gnaw through the wood.  I've heard and seen them in balsam fir logs in MI.  I believe they are "pine sawyer" beetle larva.  Nasty looking jaws on those suckers.


----------



## colsmith (Dec 27, 2007)

We keep about 3 days of firewood under the hearth, and about 4 days on our front porch.  The porch storage is just to avoid snow and rain tromping and keep the wood a little drier, there are two sides open to the weather, but we keep it coverd when it is supposed to snow.  Our wood piles are not too far from the house but not too close either.  I am just worried that whatever the larvae will develop into will attack our nearby trees.  We have a LOT of trees, an old orchard plus many things planted by my family or the local wildlife.  I didn't figure these things would like to eat our house, but hubby is more paranoid about things, or perhaps cynical is the more apt word.

I have heard terrible things about powder post beetles, and they can attack your home because they like dead wood, right?  I guess most of the wormy things we encounter are clearly staying between the bark and the wood and hence are not those.  We scavenge all our wood, so we sometimes get wood that had something living in it, and that is why the tree was cut down.  Will just have to keep a sharp eye out.  Last winter we burned every bit of dried wood we had, so nothing wintered over last year to mature this summer.  But we got lots of new stuff that again has the white wormy things and we may actually have more than we need to burn this winter.


----------



## DiscoInferno (Dec 27, 2007)

I think most of the borers stick strictly to dead wood, although there are certainly exceptions, like EAB.  Either way, unless you have brought the logs in from outside your area, those beetles are probably already all around you, and a few in your firewood don't seem likely to change the balance any.


----------



## Girl (Dec 27, 2007)

You can check with an exterminator bring one in a jar to them. There are also websites where you can submit a picture & they will assist with identifying.


----------



## Gooserider (Dec 27, 2007)

I find those things under the bark in my firewood as well, mostly just when I'm splitting it, and haven't gotten it into the wood sheds.  These are normal "decomposition bugs" that are part of the cycle of returning the wood to the soil that would be there if the tree just fell over and rotted.  They need moisture, there are very few bugs that will willingly inhabit properly seasoned and dried firewood, IMHO if you are seeing much other than spiders and other such that can live on the wood but not eat it, then it is a sign that your wood is not seasoned as well as it should be.  I know that the larvae I find under the bark when I'm splitting dissappear shortly after I split the wood and start it seasoning in the sheds.

Gooserider


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Usually you can narrow down the species of larva by the species of wood it is living in.  you will find alot of you dead timber in the woods with some sort of parasite in it.  the tree had to die from somthing.  whe flat white larva you have described sounds like a boarer of some sort they spend the larval stage in between the bark and the wood feeding on the growth ring.  When the tree gets infested (usually a few years after initial introduction) the larva will actuall cut off the nutrition going to the tree thus starving it to death.  in Michigan, NW Ohio and Indiana they are battling the emrald ash boarer which is desimating the white ash population and is spreading uncontrolably through out the country.  As of now there have been no successful attempts to contain it.  I have seen a similar borar in elm trees.  So the real concern might not be your house it might be bringing unwanted parasites to a wood lot near you.  As frar as I know the only way to kill a larva like the Emrald Ash Boarer (EAB) is to kiln dry the wood, remove the bark and sun dry it, or burn it.    They have used pestisides to affect the reproductive organs of adults. but they soon fount it to be too expensive for most people.  Something to keep in mind the easiest and fastest way for a parasite to move is in the back of a pickup truck.....


----------



## colsmith (Dec 29, 2007)

> Either way, unless you have brought the logs in from outside your area, those beetles are probably already all around you, and a few in your firewood don’t seem likely to change the balance any.



This quote was quite reassuring.  I'm an organic gardener.  I don't have trouble with garden bugs because my yard is large and very natural and birds, bugs, plants, animals, etc. fight it out, and it all works out pretty well in the end with no massive infestations of anything.  All our firewood is very local, we try not to drive more than 15 miles for wood, although we make an exception for wood near my brother-in-law's house that he finds for us, since we see him anyway.  He is just under 25 miles away driving and less as the crow (or beetle) flies.  We only found ash wood once, and it was in great shape, no visible bugs.  I find these larvae under willow bark more than anywhere else.  Have seen it in mulberry, too, was worried it had migrated from the one to the other.  I haven't noticed them in the locust or elm or maple, although the bark tends not to fall off those when split so who knows.  We only cover our firewood starting in snow season, so it gets a lot of sun and air in the rest of the year.  The willow is old enough, quite light and dried out and burns really well, the slight dampness between the wood and bark maybe comes from rain being absorbed into the bark?  Willow has a very spongy bark.

One question I have is will these things spread from wood pile to wood pile, or do they normally just start out in the live trees?  I would rather not spread the darn things around, whatever they are.  I have looked at photos on line but somehow when looking at the things I can't identify them exactly!  A bit squeamish about worms and slithery things, probably harkens back to my brothers chasing me with worms, snakes, and salamanders as a child.


----------



## DiscoInferno (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't think I've seen many borer larva in fresh live-cut wood.  Maybe the little guys that eat pinholes in red oak.  I only see them in wood that's been down a while.  I think I read that the adults can smell or otherwise sense downed trees, and that's where they lay their eggs.  Any spreading is done by the adult beetle, although I suppose that beetle might crawl out of one log and lay eggs in the next.


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Hope these show up, from your description this is what I believe you are dealing with.  As I said befor they are usually tree species specific meaning they wont move from a birch to the oak to the hickory and so on.  Also they can only survive if there is fresh growth ring or sap ring available for them to eat.

Ash Trees


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Birch trees


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Elm Trees


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

locust trees


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Here is the exit hole the larva makes when it is leaving the tree as a beatle.  I used birch because the smooth bark wuld show up easy.


----------



## Moose (Dec 29, 2007)

Here is an Ash exit hole with the emerald ash borer adult next to it.  Note the beatle would just about fit on a penny


----------



## Gooserider (Dec 30, 2007)

The ones I get have been mostly in oak or maple, and at least the ones I've seen have been in wood that's been down on the ground for a while - of course that might be a function of the bark on that wood coming off easier...  They look sort of like the ones in the picture except they seem to have a bigger, more distinctive head and a flatter, ribbon-like body.  I only see them right in the area under the bark, as opposed to the occasional log with hollows in it, which may contain other sorts of bugs - various sorts of ants and other creepy-crawlies, all of which will burn quite nicely if they don't vacate the premises first...

I'm of the opinion that there are lots of other things that are far more important to worry about than the bugs in the wood pile.

Gooserider


----------



## Gehl Family (Dec 30, 2007)

I am still new to the wood burning community so i don't know for sure what is in the wood.  However, i am pretty sure i can tell you what they are not.  i had to replace an entire sill beam in our 100+ year old farm house that was eaten by powder post beetles.  these guy are REALLY small.  the holes they bore are about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.  So if what you are seeing in your wood is larger than that, then i don't think they are powder post beetles.


----------

