# New 1000 HP corvette too powerful for the frame.



## Seasoned Oak (Mar 14, 2019)

I can imagine how it trashes the tires. 
https://www.uspressit.com/2019/03/13/top-new-corvette-delayed-because-its-too-powerful-report-says/


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## peakbagger (Mar 14, 2019)

Unfortunately the sun has set on gas engines being the quickest vehicles. They may no have the top end but given the lack of autobahns in the US and the probable demise of them in Germany, generally its the zero 60 (or 100)  is far more important than top speed except for bragging  I get the reason for them to get built as folks are always going to have a mid life crisis but expect the vast majority will be parked in the garage and traded when the next greatest thing comes out. I I did own a GMC Syclone for few years, it was quite impressive how all wheel drive and really wide tires could put down a lot of power without smoking the tires but expect with the horsepower they are talking about the tires makers will make a mint.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> Unfortunately the sun has set on gas engines being the quickest vehicles. They may no have the top end but given the lack of autobahns in the US and the probable demise of them in Germany, generally its the zero 60 (or 100)  is far more important than top speed except for bragging  I get the reason for them to get built as folks are always going to have a mid life crisis but expect the vast majority will be parked in the garage and traded when the next greatest thing comes out. I I did own a GMC Syclone for few years, it was quite impressive how all wheel drive and really wide tires could put down a lot of power without smoking the tires but expect with the horsepower they are talking about the tires makers will make a mint.



There are a few gasoline ICE advancmenets still to come I think. Mazda just perfected a nearly spark free Ignition for a gasoline engine. Nissan/Infiniti have designed a variable compression engine. I agree that the ICE has probably reached its peak. Once storage is figured out better electric will take over. I'll miss gas powered race cars and the like, particularly high strung low displacement engines and the big block V8s of the past. The new Formula E, and too a lesser extent F1, have serious sound issues and it makes the race much less exciting. Well, aside from noise F1 has been boring for a while.

Electric tractors and pickup trucks can't come soon to enough for me. Only race cars and sports cars should be loud. Work equipment is wonderful when it is quiet.


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## peakbagger (Mar 14, 2019)

The Mazda Compression Ignition gas engine is potential a game changer. Basically a diesel cycle that runs on gas https://www.motortrend.com/news/mazda-to-launch-compression-ignition-gas-engine-by-2019/

I am rooting for Liquid Piston for the next engine. http://liquidpiston.com/ A compact rotary that in theory solves the problems with a NSU/Wankel design. Might give the 2 stroke Rotax a run for its money.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> The Mazda Compression Ignition gas engine is potential a game changer. Basically a diesel cycle that runs on gas https://www.motortrend.com/news/mazda-to-launch-compression-ignition-gas-engine-by-2019/
> 
> I am rooting for Liquid Piston for the next engine. http://liquidpiston.com/ A compact rotary that in theory solves the problems with a NSU/Wankel design. Might give the 2 stroke Rotax a run for its money.




I love me some Wankel engines, and that Liquid Piston engine is really neat. Packaging seems like it may be a concern with super hot exhaust gasses, particularly on the Diesel, exiting around the output side of the crank. I'm hoping it works out, especially with their claimed gains, noise levels, and ability to scale. I am also quite partial to Mazda, and raced a Miata before the head gasket let go and I parked it in 2016. Their new engine isn't quite full compression ignition like a diesel, but it is quite close. I'm excited to see what the aftermarket does with these things. Maybe in a few years we will be in a position to pick up a third car, and a Mazda with the new HCCI engine would be killer. Especially if they bring it to a fun AWD car with nice suspension travel.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

I have yet to see how fuel is delivered or it gets lubrication. The whole reason Wankel engines don't work is the total loss lubrication system.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Mar 14, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I have yet to see how fuel is delivered or it gets lubrication. The whole reason Wankel engines don't work is the total loss lubrication system.


The lubricant in gasoline is Sulfur. It lubricates the fuel pump and other parts of the engine. It was Lead in the past, but we all know what happened (Lead is bad, we're all gonna die). The EPA wants to ban Sulfur from fuels (acid rain, we're all gonna die) and now the oil companies and the car manufacturers are working together to find a replacement for Sulfur with the same properties, but less bad for the environment (we're all gonna die).


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> The lubricant in gasoline is Sulfur. It lubricates the fuel pump and other parts of the engine. It was Lead in the past, but we all know what happened (Lead is bad, we're all gonna die). The EPA wants to ban Sulfur from fuels (acid rain, we're all gonna die) and now the oil companies and the car manufacturers are working together to find a replacement for Sulfur with the same properties, but less bad for the environment (we're all gonna die).



Sulphur won't lubricate the main shaft bearings and the metal surfaces inside that rotor housing. This is why traditional rotary designs (Wankel) require oil with the intake charge like a two stroke engine.

Lead in petrol was more of a cushioning agent for the intake and exhaust valves. This was overcome with hardened valve seats. Some racing petrol blends still have leaded fuel. Old engines didn't need fuel pump lubrication as they were mechanical pumps driven by the camshaft.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Mar 14, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Sulphur won't lubricate the main shaft bearings and the metal surfaces inside that rotor housing. This is why traditional rotary designs (Wankel) require oil with the intake charge like a two stroke engine.
> 
> Lead in petrol was more of a cushioning agent for the intake and exhaust valves. This was overcome with hardened valve seats. Some racing petrol blends still have leaded fuel. Old engines didn't need fuel pump lubrication as they were mechanical pumps driven by the camshaft.


As I have worked in an engine lab at an oil refinery (as a petroleum chemist), I was told Lead was both a lubricant as well as an Octane booster. The problem began when the EPA banned Lead and oil companies had to find a replacement. For the Octane boosting property, Benzene and Toluene were chosen to replace Lead and they are much worse for the environment and human health. As far as the lubricant, the choice was Sulfur. When burning Sulfur, you get SO2. SO2 and rain will get us H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) via H2SO3. So, Sulfur will be banned soon.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I get the reason for them to get built as folks are always going to have a mid life crisis but expect the vast majority will be parked in the garage and traded when the next greatest thing comes out.


I normally enjoy your posts, peakbagger, but that's the biggest bunch of BS you've ever written.  The folks buying 1000 hp cars are suffering from a crisis that begins by age 16, the only thing that changes at mid-life is the budget.

The guys suffering from mid-life crises are buying 300 hp cars that look like 1000 hp cars, on one-third the budget.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I normally enjoy your posts, peakbagger, but that's the biggest bunch of BS you've ever written.  The folks buying 1000 hp cars are suffering from a crisis that begins by age 16, the only thing that changes at mid-life is the budget.
> 
> The guys suffering from mid-life crises are buying 300 hp cars that look like 1000 hp cars, on one-third the budget.




￼


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I normally enjoy your posts, peakbagger, but that's the biggest bunch of BS you've ever written.  The folks buying 1000 hp cars are suffering from a crisis that begins by age 16, the only thing that changes at mid-life is the budget.
> 
> The guys suffering from mid-life crises are buying 300 hp cars that look like 1000 hp cars, on one-third the budget.


Yeah usually 911s lol.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 14, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yeah usually 911s lol.


Hey, 911's are awesome cars, so I can't blame them. But yeah, absolutely useless on public roads.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Mar 14, 2019)

People (men) buying these kind of cars need them to compensate for something.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Hey, 911's are awesome cars, so I can't blame them. But yeah, absolutely useless on public roads.


I have driven a fair number of sports cars on the track and I really don't like their driving dynamics.  Yes they can be very fast but it takes allot more work to drive them fast and it isn't nearly as much fun.  Now apparently the awd ones are very different but to get that you are talking allot more money.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> People (men) buying these kind of cars need them to compensate for something.


I don't buy them I just have friends that do.  And because most of them have no idea how to work on them or track prep them.  Or work on anything else around their house for that matter they let me drive lots of fun stuff.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2019)

You know, the 911 is a neat car.  I've never owned one, but if I had infinite money and garage space, I think I would.  The only real problem with owning one, as you mentioned, is all the yuppie owners that give you a bad image by association.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

Ashful said:


> You know, the 911 is a neat car.  I've never owned one, but if I had infinite money and garage space, I think I would.  The only real problem with owning one, as you mentioned, is all the yuppie owners that give you a bad image by association.


Nope I wouldn't buy one regardless.  There are lots of other cars or things I would rather spend that money on.  I am just not a fan.  Many are though so to each their own.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> People (men) buying these kind of cars need them to compensate for something.


Nah, those guys put smoke stacks, visors, running lights and miles of chrome on their pickup trucks.  Guys buying 1000 hp cars are just pure motor heads, this ain't your grandma's LT1.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

Ashful said:


> You know, the 911 is a neat car.  I've never owned one, but if I had infinite money and garage space, I think I would.  The only real problem with owning one, as you mentioned, is all the yuppie owners that give you a bad image by association.


Now that I have garage space I may build a track car once I am done going over my bronco.  It will probably just be a Miata but those little things are just plain fun to drive.  And it doesn't take much money to add enough power to make them pretty fast.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

I would gladly buy an m3 though and I think they have a worse yuppie image lol.  But they are tons of fun to throw around.


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## Ashful (Mar 14, 2019)

bholler said:


> Now that I have garage space I may build a track car once I am done going over my bronco.  It will probably just be a Miata but those little things are just plain fun to drive.  And it doesn't take much money to add enough power to make them pretty fast.


Okay... that's when I'm headed over to ches bholler for a beer and some entertainment.  Screw the Miata!  I vote we start with the Drag Pak, they're pure evil.


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## bholler (Mar 14, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Okay... that's when I'm headed over to ches bholler for a beer and some entertainment.  Screw the Miata!  I vote we start with the Drag Pak, they're pure evil.
> 
> 
> 
> j/k on the Miata, I helped a buddy do a custom turbocharger and injection on his 1990 model in our 20's.



Yeah they are cool but only in a straight line lol.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2019)

I actually helped a buddy build up a 1990 Miata with custom turbocharger and custom injection.  That thing was a heck of a lot of fun, he had it lowered to where it felt like the door handles were knee height.  It rusted mighty young, though.


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## bholler (Mar 15, 2019)

Not that I would turn down the chance to drive one.


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## bholler (Mar 15, 2019)

Ashful said:


> I actually helped a buddy build up a 1990 Miata with custom turbocharger and custom injection.  That thing was a heck of a lot of fun, he had it lowered to where it felt like the door handles were knee height.  It rusted mighty young, though.


Yeah they do rust.  But for the money I think they are about the most fun per dollar.


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## peakbagger (Mar 15, 2019)

I have been tempted for a couple of years to build a Miata. The Acura TSX engine conversion is pretty tempting. I have a Bronco in pieces that needs to be reassembled and sorted out then I have more than a few Unimog projects before I am ready for another project. The nice thing with Miata is it doesnt take over garage space like a large vehicle.


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## bholler (Mar 15, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I have been tempted for a couple of years to build a Miata. The Acura TSX engine conversion is pretty tempting. I have a Bronco in pieces that needs to be reassembled and sorted out then I have more than a few Unimog projects before I am ready for another project. The nice thing with Miata is it doesnt take over garage space like a large vehicle.


My bronco is on the road.  It only needs a little rustrepair the motor re gasketed etc.  It isn't bad at all.  I just need to get started


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2019)

Well the test driving has begun ,yesterday we tested a 2010 Black Camaro 2SS  426HP 6 Sp manual,all leather Int. .  Mint condition but a little high priced for the year . Started at 24600 came down to 21600 but im thinking this is worth closer to 17 -18. Very low mileage 14300 ,looks like it was garage kept. One previous owner. Wife loved it but i convinced her to look at new ones and newer ones.  The car pictured is similar but the one we tested had nicer wheels. Meanwhile ill be checking out the new Silverados,thats my mid life crisis ride.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 15, 2019)

I don't have a fabulous car, it's a base 2017 Mini 4-door, but this year I got 4 months of unlimited car washes.  I take full advantage of it, hoping to ward off rust.  It'll probably get the paint rubbed off instead, lol.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

bholler said:


> I have driven a fair number of sports cars on the track and I really don't like their driving dynamics.  Yes they can be very fast but it takes allot more work to drive them fast and it isn't nearly as much fun.  Now apparently the awd ones are very different but to get that you are talking allot more money.



I didn't realize you were into cars. Lucky you to drive a 911 on the track! My only track time was at a tiny track in SC for an autocross in my mostly stock 95 Miata.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

velvetfoot said:


> I don't have a fabulous car, it's a base 2017 Mini 4-door, but this year I got 4 months of unlimited car washes.  I take full advantage of it, hoping to ward off rust.  It'll probably get the paint rubbed off instead, lol.


 Minis are great cars with really awesome driving dynamics. Honestly, even after having a Challenger with over 500 HP, I still find cars like Minis, Miatas, Fiat 500's, etc to be much more enjoyable.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Okay... that's when I'm headed over to ches bholler for a beer and some entertainment.  Screw the Miata!  I vote we start with the Drag Pak, they're pure evil.




I used to have a 2009 Challenger SRT 8 six speed with 420 RWHP with a lot of time and parts on it that I sold and then bought a Miata. I miss that Challenger, and it was fun, but Miatas are just awesome. Drag racing is fun, but not something I would spend the time or money on to dedicate a car to it. Now that I'm not living anywhere with nice smooth pavement, I'll build the Miata into a rally car when I get it up here.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

bholler said:


> I would gladly buy an m3 though and I think they have a worse yuppie image lol.  But they are tons of fun to throw around.



I've been lucky enough to drive a few different M cars. A friend of mine had a Z4M Roadster that was a blast, especially with his aftermarket header and exhaust. I've snagged some seat time in a six speed V8 M3 Coupe, and what an excellent pairing of engine and chassis, but I still prefer the M Roasters with the old S54 straight six. One of my old autocross buddies bought a beat old E36 M3 sedan with another guy for like $1,500. That car was the fastest stock car I've ever driven, since nobody cares about it at all. They gutted it and drove around Fort Bragg with Hoosier DOT racing slicks. BMW can make some really great cars, but yeah, their image is not so great. I definitely wouldn't own one up here for road use!


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## begreen (Mar 15, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> View attachment 242369
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A well kept, low mileage car is often worth more than book. Good maintenance and cleaning help extend the lifetime of the vehicle.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2019)

begreen said:


> A well kept, low mileage car is often worth more than book. Good maintenance and cleaning help extend the lifetime of the vehicle.


I agree, but how much over book can be a gamble as the car continues to depreciate. She can buy a brand new 2019 6cy with 330 HP for roughly the same money with a warranty. So we will drive one of those to compare it to the SS . They have come a long way tech wise in 9 yrs.


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## peakbagger (Mar 15, 2019)

I lucked out with my Syclone. GM came out with the Typhoon and dealers ends up with lot of Syclones. I picked up mine on closeout and drove if for four years. I sold it for $1000 bucks less than I paid for it. Wish I could work that deal out reliably


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I lucked out with my Syclone. GM came out with the Typhoon and dealers ends up with lot of Syclones. I picked up mine on closeout and drove if for four years. I sold it for $1000 bucks less than I paid for it. Wish I could work that deal out reliably


Sy/tys are really cool and super niche, so that's no surprise.


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## peakbagger (Mar 15, 2019)

Great rigs unless someone chipped them. I got a call a year later from someone who bought it from a dealer. It had been chipped at some point after I sold it and the engine has self destructed somewhere along I95.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 15, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> Great rigs unless someone chipped them. I got a call a year later from someone who bought it from a dealer. It had been chipped at some point after I sold it and the engine has self destructed somewhere along I95.



Yeah, that engine architecture did not lend itself to performance. The only thing it had going for it was a stout block. Cramming it full of boost was just asking for heat and detonation issues, especially with clueless folks messing with engine calibration.


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## Ashful (Mar 15, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I agree, but how much over book can be a gamble as the car continues to depreciate. She can buy a brand new 2019 6cy with 330 HP for roughly the same money with a warranty. So we will drive one of those to compare it to the SS . They have come a long way tech wise in 9 yrs.



They have, but I’m not ready to accept a v6 in any pony car or muscle car, just yet.  how’d we get from 1000 hp to 330?  [emoji14]


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 15, 2019)

Ashful said:


> They have, but I’m not ready to accept a v6 in any pony car or muscle car, just yet.  how’d we get from 1000 hp to 330?  [emoji14]


It will be up to the wife what she ends up with. Her car. She liked her 2002 Pontiac Firebird.  That was a V6 with 230 HP manual shift and it was fast.   Add 100 HP and a lighter car, who knows , ill probably drive one tomorrow so ill give an update. The new v6s have about the same HP as my 70s corvette 350 did.   She is replacing her mini van so everything is an upgrade .Im trying to get her to take her time and get what she wants as she may have it awhile. All SS come with 8cl 6.2 with about 426HP or supercharged with 650ish.    For me i want an 8 in my next truck ,with cyl deactivation, no reason to compromise.


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## Ashful (Mar 16, 2019)

Well, you know which one I’d be buying!  [emoji14]

650 hp in that chassis is getting into the, “don’t turn it loose in untrained hands,” territory, but 426 hp is totally manageable, really just a pleasure to drive.  My current sedan is 485 hp, and while no race car, it is just sublime on the road.

If my wife were shopping pony cars, which will probably never happen, I’d be lobbying hard for the 426 hp platform.  Can you sell her on the nicer interior of the higher model?  [emoji1]


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Well, you know which one I’d be buying!  [emoji14]
> , I’d be lobbying hard for the 426 hp platform.  Can you sell her on the nicer interior of the higher model?  [emoji1]


She does like all that leather. The SS package includes a lot more than a big engine. You may be shocked to learn this car now comes with a 4CY engine, if a 6Cy is hard to wrap your head around a 4cy is just unthinkable.  I  was dissapointed to learn that the 100HP extra between the 6cy
and the 6,2 V8 only shaves a half second off the Zero to 60 time. So the 6 is no slouch but ill know more after driving one today. At this point it looks like she is sticking with the SS platform hell or high water.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 16, 2019)

I find I'm too good of a driver and get myself into trouble in fast cars and bikes, and I've had a few. I got pulled over by a cop in my 03 Mach 1 doing 50 in 35 MPH twisty area. He let me off with a warning, but if I were in my Miata he probably wouldn't have even bothered, because I would have been going much faster. My worst ticket was on a bike, but that's a whole different category of speed. Anything less than 7 seconds 0-60 is more than fast enough for surface streets. Cars are just so fast now.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Anything less than 7 seconds 0-60 is more than fast enough for surface streets. Cars are just so fast now.


The newV6 camaro is Mid 5s something seconds Zero to 60.  The 6.2L  8cy is 4.9 to 5.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 16, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> The newV6 camaro is Mid 5s something seconds Zero to 60.  The 6.2L  8cy is 4.9 to 5.


That's my point, cars are just so fast. My Mazdaspeed 3 was about 5.6 seconds 0-60, and that's FWD turbo four cylinder, albeit with a nice limited slip differential. That wasn't an expensive car when it was new, and they are very cheap used. I think I paid $26,000 for a 2010 right off the showroom floor in December 2009. I long ago sold that car, but the market is lousy with fast cars right now. Even the Honda Accord is pretty stout these days. Certainly RWD is more rewarding in the handling and chassis department, but even still a mid level BMW 3 series with the six cylinder turbo can run a 12 second 1/4 mile these days and return over 30 MPG highway. A friend and I drove from Bowling Green Kentucky to Fort Bragg NC on one tank of fuel... That car was amazing.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2019)

Her budget is going up . Started at 20k Now its 34k. Thats what i get for raising her allowance .  She is currently looking at this car.  2017  2SS 12kmiles 455HP 6Sp Manual   This would be around 40+ new .


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## SpaceBus (Mar 16, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Her budget is going up . Started at 20k Now its 34k. Thats what i get for raising her allowance .  She is currently looking at this car.  2017  2SS 12kmiles 455HP 6Sp Manual   This would be around 40+ new .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My friend got a white one right when that new style came out. He loves the car and they handle well and go fast. This new style makes the previous one look huge and awkward in comparison.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> My friend got a white one right when that new style came out. He loves the car and they handle well and go fast. This new style makes the previous one look huge and awkward in comparison.


White is probably the my last choice for color. White looks OK if it spotlessly clean.(similar to black) My first choice would be Burgundy then Black then Red then Silver,in that order. Same for a truck. Wife seems to gravitate towards the Black as first color choice. Then Burgundy then Red.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 16, 2019)

I won't own another black vehicle, they are hl to keep clean.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 17, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I won't own another black vehicle, they are hl to keep clean.


I guess if its your daily driver ,its a bad choice. My first choice is burgundy. If your just driveing it on nice days in the warmer months im sure it will stay cleaner ,the rest of the time in a garage or under a car cover.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 18, 2019)

I found this chart interesting. Its the  % of brands reaching 200k miles.  Could be skewed by a lot of factors though.  Certain demographics may be more apt to drive conservatively thus higher totals.  Only one i ever had with over 200k( 250k) was an 89 silverado. Still ran good when i sold it. Cant say that for my tacoma, about useless at 76k.    I guess this means the% that do not reach 200k is in the high 90s.



Toyota – 1.7 percent
Honda – 1.5 percent
GMC – 1.4 percent
Chevrolet – 1.2 percent
Ram – 1.1 percent
Ford – 1.0 percent


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## Ashful (Mar 18, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I found this chart interesting. Its the  % of brands reaching 200k miles.  Could be skewed by a lot of factors though.  Certain demographics may be more apt to drive conservatively thus higher totals.  Only one i ever had with over 200k( 250k) was an 89 silverado. Still ran good when i sold it. Cant say that for my tacoma, about useless at 76k.    I guess this means the% that do not reach 200k is in the high 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting.  This probably represents a very large fraction of vehicle sales (but no Nissan?).   However, it’s very narrow demographically, without the inclusion of budget (Kia, Hyundai, or historically... Saturn) or high end (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Jaguar, Rolls).


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 18, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Interesting.  This probably represents a very large fraction of vehicle sales (but no Nissan?).   However, it’s very narrow demographically, without the inclusion of budget (Kia, Hyundai, or historically... Saturn) or high end (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, Jaguar, Rolls).


The original article did mention there were no european cars on the list. Found a few other lists but they are all different. One list had  the ford F250 superduty truck as No 1 .


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## bholler (Mar 18, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I found this chart interesting. Its the  % of brands reaching 200k miles.  Could be skewed by a lot of factors though.  Certain demographics may be more apt to drive conservatively thus higher totals.  Only one i ever had with over 200k( 250k) was an 89 silverado. Still ran good when i sold it. Cant say that for my tacoma, about useless at 76k.    I guess this means the% that do not reach 200k is in the high 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have taken most of my daily driver vehicles past 200000.  The only one that didn't make it was my trailblazer.  Most of our work vehicles go past 200 also.  One dodge van didn't and our current Chevy 2500 won't make it anywhere near that due to frame rust.  I have never even bought a Toyota that was under 200000 and they all ran great.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 18, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I found this chart interesting. Its the  % of brands reaching 200k miles.  Could be skewed by a lot of factors though.  Certain demographics may be more apt to drive conservatively thus higher totals.  Only one i ever had with over 200k( 250k) was an 89 silverado. Still ran good when i sold it. Cant say that for my tacoma, about useless at 76k.    I guess this means the% that do not reach 200k is in the high 90s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Maybe those are original owners driving to 200k?    

I find it hard to believe most vehicles don't reach 200 now.  Maybe they're taking into account 70s and 80s vehicles?  I think every vehicle I have ever had has made it to 200k.  I only had 1 vehicle made prior to 1990 though (82).


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 18, 2019)

Lot of variables here,you can keep just about any vehicle going indefinitely ,one exception would be extreme frame rust. My Tacoma suffered from that and a half dozen less severe problems. Seems every study like this has different outcomes.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 18, 2019)

bholler said:


> I have taken most of my daily driver vehicles past 200000.  t.


 Yea  i thought that % is very low unless they are talking about the original owner which i can understand as most people change out every few years but theres also the group that keeps a dependable vehicle for decades. Im a member of that group.


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## bholler (Mar 18, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Yea  i thought that % is very low unless they are talking about the original owner which i can understand as most people change out every few years but theres also the group that keeps a dependable vehicle for decades. Im a member of that group.


Actually my personal vehicles are pretty low meilage right now the highest being 120000.  But they are all 29 yrs old or older.  We keep a nice new reliable car for my wife though.  Hers usually gets traded when it hits 100000 to 120000.  This one might go higher because she is driving far to work now.

Wow we are a long way from 1000 hp corvettes


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2019)

bholler said:


> Wow we are a long way from 1000 hp corvettes



How many 1000 hp vehicles make it to 200,000 miles?   I suspect zero.


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## bholler (Mar 19, 2019)

Ashful said:


> How many 1000 hp vehicles make it to 200,000 miles?   I suspect zero.


Yeah probably not lol.


----------



## peakbagger (Mar 19, 2019)

I read recently that some of the earlier models of the McLaren supercars are coming on the market at a steep discount from original cost. What is pulling then down is combination that they aren't so "super" anymore and they have to be maintained by the one and only  service tech in the united states or ship it back to the factory. When the Porsche Boxter's first came out more than few first time buyers were upset to discover that the vast majority of the routine maintenance had to start by removing the engine from under the car. 

I have no doubt that many of the major supercars that are computer dependent will just get to the point where no one has the software to diagnose them. I have heard that is starting to happen with run of the mill cars where the cars are still mechanically functional they just will not run due to software issues. I have 97 GM Sonoma pickup sitting on the front lawn that has not been able to pass an emissions test for a year. Runs fine but the evaporator emission control system sends a code. Low mileage and in reasonable shape. I plan to go at it at some point when it warms up but there is a distinct probability that II will put it back together with a simple tank vent and sell it in Maine where they don't do on mandatory emissions inspections to keep the vehicle on the road. One of the reasons I have my Unimogs is that they are strictly electrical, no computer components to worry about.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I read recently that some of the earlier models of the McLaren supercars are coming on the market at a steep discount from original cost. What is pulling then down is combination that they aren't so "super" anymore


This has always been a problem with super cars, and now hyper cars.  No one with super car money wants a dated 1990 Ferrari, too young to have any nostalgic appeal, too hold to run with the state of the art today.



peakbagger said:


> When the Porsche Boxter's first came out more than few first time buyers were upset to discover that the vast majority of the routine maintenance had to start by removing the engine from under the car.


No car guy would be caught dead in a Porsche boxter.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2019)

Hey, any reports of wheel lift on that 1000 hp vette?  The rear tires are farther back on that body than most cars that can achieve wheel lift, so traction is going to be more limited at the rear, but it’s certainly got the torque to lift that frame off the ground.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 19, 2019)

Ashful said:


> This has always been a problem with super cars, and now hyper cars.  No one with super car money wants a dated 1990 Ferrari, too young to have any nostalgic appeal, too hold to run with the state of the art today.
> 
> 
> No car guy would be caught dead in a Porsche boxter.
> ...



What car guys do you know? Boxtsers are awesome cars. What's not to like about a six cylinder mid engine roadster?!


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## bholler (Mar 19, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> I read recently that some of the earlier models of the McLaren supercars are coming on the market at a steep discount from original cost. What is pulling then down is combination that they aren't so "super" anymore and they have to be maintained by the one and only  service tech in the united states or ship it back to the factory. When the Porsche Boxter's first came out more than few first time buyers were upset to discover that the vast majority of the routine maintenance had to start by removing the engine from under the car.
> 
> I have no doubt that many of the major supercars that are computer dependent will just get to the point where no one has the software to diagnose them. I have heard that is starting to happen with run of the mill cars where the cars are still mechanically functional they just will not run due to software issues. I have 97 GM Sonoma pickup sitting on the front lawn that has not been able to pass an emissions test for a year. Runs fine but the evaporator emission control system sends a code. Low mileage and in reasonable shape. I plan to go at it at some point when it warms up but there is a distinct probability that II will put it back together with a simple tank vent and sell it in Maine where they don't do on mandatory emissions inspections to keep the vehicle on the road. One of the reasons I have my Unimogs is that they are strictly electrical, no computer components to worry about.


I don't know I really like the advantages of computer controlled fuel injection.  Most of my older stuff either had it originally or I added it.  And the best stuff is generally easier to work on in many ways.  I just plug into it and the computer tells me what I need to do.  It takes some of the fun out of it but it also means you aren't guessing about which part to change.


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## peakbagger (Mar 19, 2019)

Big thread drift but what the heck Computer controlled injection  as well as computer controlled other systems are great. The big "but" is software and interface equipment to get at the computer. US law forces access to some limited data in a standardized format for emissions but there is no requirement to give access to lot of the other systems. Most cars these days have several local area networks pushing proprietary digital data around, if you don't have the right interface and software" you are screwed. Even the small independent garages don't have the stuff. My brother needed his horn to work for an inspection sticker. He had to pay the Subaru dealer a $250 diagnostic fee to plug the car into a Subaru specific LAN. Turned out it was a dirty slip ring on the steering column. $600 later he had working horn. 

By the way typical car insurance does not cover having to total a car because the electronics don't work unless it can be connected to an actual external event, like and accident or a flood.  You will see in the news after a flood about not buying flood cars. The big joke is that the mechanical components can be salvaged quite easily, the interior usually needs replacement but the big item that cant be reliably salvaged  is the electronics. Once the electronics get wet its time to total them. I have met several individuals who buy totaled high trucks and then who buy a flood truck via private sale so the VIN isn't flagged and combine the interior and electronics into one good truck. They specialize in only one model so they get good at doing the swap. Just like the local Toyota garage, they have two bays dedicated to changing Toyota frames. They hire kids out of tech school and that is all they do 40 hours a week, yank the body and running gear off a rusted frame and put it on a new frame. No doubt its boring but I bet they beat book time.


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## Ashful (Mar 19, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> ...if you don't have the right interface and software" you are screwed. Even the small independent garages don't have the stuff. My brother needed his horn to work for an inspection sticker. He had to pay the Subaru dealer a $250 diagnostic fee to plug the car into a Subaru specific LAN. Turned out it was a dirty slip ring on the steering column. $600 later he had working horn.


There will always be isolated cases like this.  But has the addition of electronics has resulted in more reliable vehicles, not the other way around.  The challenge is distilling this down to an increase vs. decrease in net cost of ownership, as the addition of electronics has also made possible the addition of many features, for which you are being charged at time of purchase... and which can also break down the road.


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## bholler (Mar 19, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> Big thread drift but what the heck Computer controlled injection  as well as computer controlled other systems are great. The big "but" is software and interface equipment to get at the computer. US law forces access to some limited data in a standardized format for emissions but there is no requirement to give access to lot of the other systems. Most cars these days have several local area networks pushing proprietary digital data around, if you don't have the right interface and software" you are screwed. Even the small independent garages don't have the stuff. My brother needed his horn to work for an inspection sticker. He had to pay the Subaru dealer a $250 diagnostic fee to plug the car into a Subaru specific LAN. Turned out it was a dirty slip ring on the steering column. $600 later he had working horn.
> 
> By the way typical car insurance does not cover having to total a car because the electronics don't work unless it can be connected to an actual external event, like and accident or a flood.  You will see in the news after a flood about not buying flood cars. The big joke is that the mechanical components can be salvaged quite easily, the interior usually needs replacement but the big item that cant be reliably salvaged  is the electronics. Once the electronics get wet its time to total them. I have met several individuals who buy totaled high trucks and then who buy a flood truck via private sale so the VIN isn't flagged and combine the interior and electronics into one good truck. They specialize in only one model so they get good at doing the swap. Just like the local Toyota garage, they have two bays dedicated to changing Toyota frames. They hire kids out of tech school and that is all they do 40 hours a week, yank the body and running gear off a rusted frame and put it on a new frame. No doubt its boring but I bet they beat book time.


Ok but honestly the number of catastrophic electronic failures are very low.  Modern cars on average run much longer with much less work and way more performance than the old stuff. 

 And within a few months of their release there is hacked software available online for almost all new automotive operating systems and the access codes aren't hard to get either.


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## bholler (Mar 19, 2019)

As far as the horn goes there is absolutely no reason that couldn't have been fixed by any mechanic the old way.  Take it apart and find the problem.


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## SeanBB (Mar 19, 2019)

For me it's horses for courses. I have no need for more than 90mph or sub 8 seconds 0 to 60mph times. What I need is good 40 to 60mph accelerating times and good 65 to 80mph times. Those are the accelerating times we need here in the UK for overtaking on country roads and motorways. 
I am pleased with my car, it gives me a good compromise. It is a Honda Civic Sport turbo diesel, 16 valve, twin cam, six speed. I get over 50 miles per (uk) gallon and that is important with the price of fuel here. For overtaking on country roads I drop down to third gear at 50mph and floor it and it is (hope this local expression doesn't offend anyone) chit off a shovel,  And it is a Honda so 200,000+ miles is a given.   

Having said that…..

I would love a 1,000 horse power Corvette!


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 28, 2019)

After looking for a few months at everything out there the wife made a choice and went for the black, low mileage(14k) 2SS Camaro 6SP Manual, 426HP ,all leather interior. The owner came down 4k from his original asking price. Had just purchased it 18 months ago for 28k from a dealer. Was asking 24,we paid 20.   This model new is in the mid 40s.


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## Ashful (Apr 29, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> After looking for a few months at everything out there the wife made a choice and went for the black, low mileage(14k) 2SS Camaro 6SP Manual, 426HP ,all leather interior. The owner came down 4k from his original asking price. Had just purchased it 18 months ago for 28k from a dealer. Was asking 24,we paid 20.   This model new is in the mid 40s.



So, is she going to let you drive it?  [emoji1]


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 29, 2019)

Ashful said:


> So, is she going to let you drive it?  [emoji1]


Iv been mostly driving it since she is a little rusty with the stick. Kinda funny watching her pull out on a hill. Trying to control all those horses. Going to need a neck brace.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 29, 2019)

We have a cruise night downtown a couple times a year so now we have something to fit in with the event.Our town was the center of cruising every night in the 70 and 80s, mostly muscle cars,custom rods,50s and 60s modified cars Camaros, vettes, mustangs,Cudas, ect. Sort of like american graffiti
.I loved the Plymouth Road Runner 383 but a decent one now is about 30 K  on the low end. Probably $2999 Brand new. I had  a Corvette, a custom van complete with a bar and high end sound system  and a Harley Chopper at the time.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 5, 2019)

Speaking of Horse Power iv been looking to replace one of my Work trucks with a late model and finding most of those available are V-6s. Although the HP rating of V-6s have been inching up, i still would much prefer any of the 8 cyl engines over a V-6. Found a great deal on a low mile 2010 recently but had to pass it up as im just not going in for another V-6.


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## bholler (Jun 5, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Speaking of Horse Power iv been looking to replace one of my Work trucks with a late model and finding most of those available are V-6s. Although the HP rating of V-6s have been inching up, i still would much prefer any of the 8 cyl engines over a V-6. Found a great deal on a low mile 2010 recently but had to pass it up as im just not going in for another V-6.


Work trucks are hard to find low mileage.  We just spent a few months finding a long bed regular cab 3/4 ton truck.  There just aren't many available that aren't beat to hell.  We ended up with a 2016 f250 with the 6.2 with 35000.  It wasn't cheap but it should last us a long time.  Not many places even have them in stock new.


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## Ashful (Jun 5, 2019)

Does it have 1000 hp?


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## bholler (Jun 5, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Does it have 1000 hp?


Nope and I don't want it to lol.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 6, 2019)

bholler said:


> Work trucks are hard to find low mileage.  .


This was a 2010 Regular cab long box with 75 k on it. Most are well over 100k. For $8000. Also hard to fiind a full size box these days. Even some reg cab trucks have 6ft box ,Thats just wrong. I have 2 trucks with ext cabs and i never use that back seat, but always looking for more room in the box.


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## Ashful (Jun 6, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Even some reg cab trucks have 6ft box ,Thats just wrong.


Let’s not confuse things, more than the manufacturers have already done for us.  There is no 6ft box on the market today from the big 3, of which I am aware.  There is a 5.5 ft. box, generally called “short bed”, and a 6.5 ft. box, now generally called “standard bed”.  The 8 ft. box, which for decades was “standard”, is now generally called “long bed”.

So, the standard Dodge platform (and I believe Ford and Chevy are both the same) is a 140” wheel base, with 229” overall length.  This means you can get:

Standard cab w/ 8’ bed
Quad cab w/6.5’ bed
Crew cab w/5.5’ bed 

The overwhelming majority of 1/2 ton pickups sold today, and those 2017 models available on the off-lease market, are Crew cab with 5.5’ bed.

If you want a longer bed, then you step up to the 149” wheelbase, and you can then get:

Quad cab w/8’ bed
Crew cab w/6.5’ bed

Then there are those nuts that buy crew cabs with 8’ beds on a wheelbase that must be close to 160”, but they can’t fit into grocery store parking lots.


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## bholler (Jun 6, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Let’s not confuse things, more than the manufacturers have already done for us.  There is no 6ft box on the market today from the big 3, of which I am aware.  There is a 5.5 ft. box, generally called “short bed”, and a 6.5 ft. box, now generally called “standard bed”.  The 8 ft. box, which for decades was “standard”, is now generally called “long bed”.
> 
> So, the standard Dodge platform (and I believe Ford and Chevy are both the same) is a 140” wheel base, with 229” overall length.  This means you can get:
> 
> ...


I expect that from half ton trucks.  But I had a hard time finding a 3/4 ton long bed truck that wasn't a crew cab.  And I am not driving a long bed crew cab.  It is difficult enough manuvering in customers driveways with a trailer behind a regular cab.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 6, 2019)

bholler said:


> .  It is difficult enough manuvering in customers driveways with a trailer behind a regular cab.


Ill second that . Im going back to the standard cab. Long box. . Parking is always a problem with my ext cab, long box ,just too damn long.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 6, 2019)

Ashful said:


> The overwhelming majority of 1/2 ton pickups sold today, and those 2017 models available on the off-lease market, are Crew cab with 5.5’ bed.
> 
> .


That makes it hard to find a standard cab, long bed in the late model used market.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 6, 2019)

Heh, I use my four door (but not mega cab) long bed Dually for pretty much anything my wife's tiny car can't handle. That includes any time I need to take one or more dogs out. I wouldn't do this in the city, but in the super rural area I live in, so far its been a non issue. It's a six speed diesel so I average about 24.5 MPG "in town" and 25+ wherever I can cruise at 55-60 MPH for long periods. 

Some day I'm hoping to build a garage and by that point we will get a "third car" that will hopefully be some sort of off road capable ev. I'm praying for Jeep to make a plug in wrangler pickup, I'd even give up a manual transmission for it, but it don't see it happening any time soon if ever.


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## Ashful (Jun 7, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> That makes it hard to find a standard cab, long bed in the late model used market.



You’ll still find those pretty easily in the Contractor’s or Fleet trim levels, with a vinyl bench seat and rubber floor instead of carpet, if that’s what you want.  But most are v6, and many are only 2wd, in that trim.  They’re used as fleet vehicles, and often have some cosmetic issues. 

Finding a higher trim level from private ownership with v8 and standard cab / long bed is definitely going to be a little more work, if you’re trying to do it on your own.  

When I buy a used truck, since Dodge is our primary brand locally, I just go to the dealer and have them pull me one from the Chrysler Capital inventory, which is where FCA aggregates all of their off-lease inventory.  It’s all graded by their appraisers, to a standard system you can trust, so you just name your desired configuration and grade (condition = price).  That inventory must be enormous, as I’ve never had them say they don’t have at least a few of any configuration I’ve requested.  It’s almost like ordering a new car, in terms of available configurations.

I imagine ford and Chevy have similar systems.  Not as cheap as hunting and buying locally, but sometimes time is money, and you just want what you want.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 7, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Finding a higher trim level from private ownership with v8 and standard cab / long bed is definitely going to be a little more work, if you’re trying to do it on your own.
> 
> .


Found a nice GMC Standard Cab Long Bed with a V-8. Nice trim level.  Going to check it out today.   Even the smallest V-8 has 100 more HP than the V-6.  295 compared to 195.  I did look through a slew of V-6s and short boxes to find it. Nice thing about V-8 is they usually already have a trailer hitch installed.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 7, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Finding a higher trim level from private ownership with v8 and standard cab / long bed is definitely going to be a little more work, if you’re trying to do it on your own.



I searched for about a year to find my truck. I wanted at least an extended cab, 4x4, diesel (7.3 Ford or 5.9 Cummins), manual transmission, DRW, and a long bed. Unfortunately I couldn't find any good 7.3 trucks and I'm lucky to have found my ram. My grandfather in law has a slick 04 Chevy that mostly matches my configuration, but he won't sell it until he dies.


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## bholler (Jun 7, 2019)

Ashful said:


> You’ll still find those pretty easily in the Contractor’s or Fleet trim levels, with a vinyl bench seat and rubber floor instead of carpet, if that’s what you want.  But most are v6, and many are only 2wd, in that trim.  They’re used as fleet vehicles, and often have some cosmetic issues.
> 
> Finding a higher trim level from private ownership with v8 and standard cab / long bed is definitely going to be a little more work, if you’re trying to do it on your own.
> 
> ...


Yeah I had a Ford a Dodge and a Chevy dealer looking for one for me.  Ford found me one first but it took 2 or 3 months.  I was not picky at all about trim I just wanted regular cab long bed with the bigger v8 under 50000 miles.  There just aren't many available.  What we got is actually a higher trim than I would want.  I already ordered rubber floor and vinyl seat covers.  Because the carpet and cloth seats will look like crap in a few months.  Power windows are nice though.


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## Ashful (Jun 7, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> My grandfather in law has a slick 04 Chevy that mostly matches my configuration, but he won't sell it until he dies.



You’ll have all the leverage on selling price, at that point.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 7, 2019)

Ashful said:


> You’ll have all the leverage on selling price, at that point.


It really comes down to if my brother in law wants it or not.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 7, 2019)

I checked out a 2008 GMC today. Looked like a new truck from a distance but discovered too much frame rust and wheel well rust on closer inspection. Freshly Undercoated ,a sure sign of trouble. So ill be looking for something a bit newer. Nice deals on 2014s but all 6cy so far.


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## bholler (Jun 7, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I checked out a 2008 GMC today. Looked like a new truck from a distance but discovered too much frame rust and wheel well rust on closer inspection. Freshly Undercoated ,a sure sign of trouble. So ill be looking for something a bit newer. Nice deals on 2014s but all 6cy so far.


It depends what you need.  A 6 cyl would not do for us but we regularly carry a cube of brick while towing our work trailer.  A 6 wouldnt do that very well.  But if it is just hauling lumber or drywall etc a v6 would be just fine.


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## Ashful (Jun 7, 2019)

Just spoke with the manager at my Dodge dealer today, and found out they're due to receive several TRX's, a 1/2 ton pickup with the 707 hp supercharged 6.2L Hellcat motor.  They already have several back-ordered for specific customers.

I also found out they'll be doing a version with the 485 hp 6.4L Hemi naturally-aspirated motor that I have in my car.  Makes me wish I hadn't just settled for the 5.7L Hemi in 2017!


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 10, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Just spoke with the manager at my Dodge dealer today, and found out they're due to receive several TRX's, a 1/2 ton pickup with the 707 hp supercharged 6.2L Hellcat motor.  They already have several back-ordered for specific customers.
> 
> I also found out they'll be doing a version with the 485 hp 6.4L Hemi naturally-aspirated motor that I have in my car.  Makes me wish I hadn't just settled for the 5.7L Hemi in 2017!


You can always upgrade.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 10, 2019)

bholler said:


> It depends what you need.  A 6 cyl would not do for us but we regularly carry a cube of brick while towing our work trailer.  A 6 wouldnt do that very well.  But if it is just hauling lumber or drywall etc a v6 would be just fine.


The newer V-6 somehow went from 195 HP a few yrs back, now to 285HP .  Thats quite a jump ,dont know how they managed to get that kind of boost from the same engine. Im looking at a 2015 tomorrow ,so ill see what that feels like.


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## begreen (Jun 10, 2019)

I have an F150 with a 3.5 V6 ecoboost. With  375 hp and 470 lb.-ft. of torque this truck has never lacked for power, even going over high mountains with a full load.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> I have an F150 with a 3.5 V6 ecoboost. With  375 hp and 470 lb.-ft. of torque this truck has never lacked for power, even going over high mountains with a full load.


That is a fabulous engine, but hardly comparable to the regular naturally aspirated.


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## begreen (Jun 10, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> That is a fabulous engine, but hardly comparable to the regular naturally aspirated.


In what way? Have you hauled with it? I'll admit I was skeptical at first but I have been surprised at the power of this motor/tranny combo. I have hauled a 1600# load over many miles in mountains and hill country and you hardly notice the weight. All that really changes is the fuel consumption. 

FWIW, my dad had a 2 ton, Dodge rack body truck back in the 1960s in commercial service. It hauled heavy stuff constantly, all with a six cylinder. Gearing is a big part of this.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> I have an F150 with a 3.5 V6 ecoboost. With  375 hp and 470 lb.-ft. of torque this truck has never lacked for power, even going over high mountains with a full load.


Thats a lot of HP to pull from such a small engine.I wonder how it fares with 100k on the turbo. And repair replacement costs. But thats amazing HP from a  3.5l.


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## Ashful (Jun 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> FWIW, my dad had a 2 ton, Dodge rack body truck back in the 1960s in commercial service. It hauled heavy stuff constantly, all with a six cylinder. Gearing is a big part of this.


And I routinely move up to 4 tons with my 26 hp tractor... at 10 mph.  Those 1960’s trucks could haul anything, if you had the patience to go slow.  Been there, done that... not doing it again.


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## begreen (Jun 10, 2019)

True it wasn't a rocket. A 2 ton 12' bed truck is not anything one is going to be racing around the neighborhood with.  It did fine. I drove a lot of miles in that truck, on freeways and in NYC traffic. It got the job done.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 10, 2019)

Ashful said:


> And I routinely move up to 4 tons with my 26 hp tractor... at 10 mph.  Those 1960’s trucks could haul anything, if you had the patience to go slow.  Been there, done that... not doing it again.


I had one of those 60s dump trucks ,could barely make it over the mountain empty.


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## bholler (Jun 10, 2019)

begreen said:


> In what way? Have you hauled with it? I'll admit I was skeptical at first but I have been surprised at the power of this motor/tranny combo. I have hauled a 1600# load over many miles in mountains and hill country and you hardly notice the weight. All that really changes is the fuel consumption.
> 
> FWIW, my dad had a 2 ton, Dodge rack body truck back in the 1960s in commercial service. It hauled heavy stuff constantly, all with a six cylinder. Gearing is a big part of this.


Yours has a turbo the Chevy he is looking at doesn't.  The Eco boosts are great motors we have a 2.0 in my wife's escape and it has been great so far.  But I don't think it would hold up as well as a big v8 hauling the way we do.  But for what most people use a truck for it is a fantastic motor.


----------



## bholler (Jun 10, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> The newer V-6 somehow went from 195 HP a few yrs back, now to 285HP .  Thats quite a jump ,dont know how they managed to get that kind of boost from the same engine. Im looking at a 2015 tomorrow ,so ill see what that feels like.


Yeah they have come a long way.  My sister has one in her 1500 and it works great for her.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Jun 10, 2019)

Had our first cruise of the season saturday.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 11, 2019)

begreen said:


> In what way? Have you hauled with it? I'll admit I was skeptical at first but I have been surprised at the power of this motor/tranny combo. I have hauled a 1600# load over many miles in mountains and hill country and you hardly notice the weight. All that really changes is the fuel consumption.
> 
> FWIW, my dad had a 2 ton, Dodge rack body truck back in the 1960s in commercial service. It hauled heavy stuff constantly, all with a six cylinder. Gearing is a big part of this.



I'm saying your twin turbochargers make a big difference between your engine and the standard naturally aspirated 3.5 liter V6. Also the slant six engine is totally different and is not comparable at all to any modern engine. It's like saying a Fisher stove is the same as an EPA 2020 stove, both burn wood, but that's where the comparo ends.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jun 11, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Thats a lot of HP to pull from such a small engine.I wonder how it fares with 100k on the turbo. And repair replacement costs. But thats amazing HP from a  3.5l.


If the turbos use quality bearings and the engine is maintained they should last just as long as the rest of the engine. BMW was making 800+ HP four cylinder engines in the 80's.


----------



## sloeffle (Jun 11, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Crew cab w/5.5’ bed


Where I live at, we call those grocery getters. 

IMHO that is about all they are good for.



Ashful said:


> Then there are those nuts that buy crew cabs with 8’ beds on a wheelbase that must be close to 160”, but they can’t fit into grocery store parking lots.


We call this a truck.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> If the turbos use quality bearings and the engine is maintained they should last just as long as the rest of the engine. BMW was making 800+ HP four cylinder engines in the 80's.



The 800 hp engines from the 1980’s with which I am familiar all required complete rebuilds every 500 miles.  Not exactly streetable stuff.  Even today, 800 hp street motors are typically 6 liters with forced induction.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jun 11, 2019)

Ashful said:


> The 800 hp engines from the 1980’s with which I am familiar all required complete rebuilds every 500 miles.  Not exactly streetable stuff.  Even today, 800 hp street motors are typically 6 liters with forced induction.


I'm just using that example to point out how durable things have become. 800 HP is nothing for a street (aka unlimited rules) engine displacing 6 liters. My step dad's old dd/race car was 440 AWHP out of a 2.0 four cylinder with a stock bottom end. 800 wouldn't have been that tough to make and still last for 1,000s of miles with more work.


----------



## SpaceBus (Jun 11, 2019)

It's actually more difficult to make power with rules and regulations that the OEMs have to deal with. Street motors don't have rules for the most part. When you start getting into racing you typically have much more strict rules.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Jun 13, 2019)

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/honda-lawnmower-world-record-acceleration
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/elon-musk-says-teslas-truck-will-be-able-to-tow-as-much-as-a-ford-f-150
Interesting things happening in the performance arena.


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## Ashful (Jun 13, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> https://www.foxnews.com/auto/honda-lawnmower-world-record-acceleration
> https://www.foxnews.com/auto/elon-musk-says-teslas-truck-will-be-able-to-tow-as-much-as-a-ford-f-150
> Interesting things happening in the performance arena.


Interesting, indeed.  But the second comment really says it all.  Electric motors present some amazing performance capabilities, but it’s hard to beat a refillable tank of Dino juice for long hauls over stretches of hilly highways.


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## bholler (Jun 13, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Interesting, indeed.  But the second comment really says it all.  Electric motors present some amazing performance capabilities, but it’s hard to beat a refillable tank of Dino juice for long hauls over stretches of hilly highways.


Give them time batteries and charging are getting better and better really fast.  Personally I wouldn't get an ev yet but in a couple of years probably.


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## Ashful (Jun 13, 2019)

bholler said:


> Give them time batteries and charging are getting better and better really fast.  Personally I wouldn't get an ev yet but in a couple of years probably.



Agreed, they will definitely get there, probably sooner than most of us imagine.  They’re just not there today, when talking tow vehicles.


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## begreen (Jun 15, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Thats a lot of HP to pull from such a small engine.I wonder how it fares with 100k on the turbo. And repair replacement costs. But thats amazing HP from a  3.5l.


I was concerned about reliability, but they seem to stand up well. I test drove both and the V6 feels snappier than the V8. In general, I haven't liked turbo motors due to the lag as they spool up. But Ford got it right. You say go and it goes. Still, I was going to get the V8. That was my preference, but I couldn't find one with the heavy-duty payload and the trailer towing package that I found in our truck. Since I was buying used and had to pick up our camper in a week, I went for the 3.5 V6.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 15, 2019)

Well i came across a deal i couldnt pass up last week. I needed a newer more dependable light duty work truck. Started out looking at 2006-2009 trucks but after seeing the sorry shape  many were in i started looking at newer work trucks. I ended up with a 2015 GMC. 4WD. It does have a V-6, but its the newer version with the extra 90HP (285) over the 2012s(195) and before.   Since i do Zero towing and all the heavy hauling is done with my k2500 its a good fit.    I clocked 27.6 MPG  Avg on a 70 mile highway trip going 70 -75 MPH on the trip computer so thats way beyond what i expected. Amazed by the power, and acceleration and MPG ,but a little disappointed in the stiffness of the ride though ,they havnt made much improvement in a 4x4 ride in the last 20 yrs.I guess that additional payload capacity they try to improve each yr takes a toll on the ride.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jun 15, 2019)

begreen said:


> I was concerned about reliability, but they seem to stand up well.  .


They do get good reviews. I may check those out down the road as ill be replacing the family hauler in a yr or 2. They also  have very good MPG ratings.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jul 30, 2019)

Interesting.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-des...hevrolet-corvette-stingray-is-nearly-sold-out


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## peakbagger (Jul 30, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Interesting.
> https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-des...hevrolet-corvette-stingray-is-nearly-sold-out



Usually happens every new model change.  The dont make a lot of them in the first year as the production is ramping up. The price is relatively low compared to what people were expecting. Once the initial demand drops, they will start hyping the convertible and then a year or two later the high performance version. Classic GM. The big issue is if the average age of the owners drops, its been creeping up for years and I believe its in the mid to late sixties. The new mid engine version is just an available substitute for the Lamborghini Countach poster with a blonde in or out of swimsuit laid out over the body.

Hopefully with such a major revision that all the parts work together correctly.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 30, 2019)

Today I finally laid eyes on the C8. For a while I didn't think they could get worse than the C7, but I was wrong. The C8 is offends my eyeballs.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jul 31, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Today I finally laid eyes on the C8. For a while I didn't think they could get worse than the C7, but I was wrong. The C8 is offends my eyeballs.


Looks like a European sports car now, which have looked virtually the same for decades.


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## Ashful (Jul 31, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Today I finally laid eyes on the C8. For a while I didn't think they could get worse than the C7, but I was wrong. The C8 is offends my eyeballs.



Other than maybe C5, people have said that about every generation of Corvette, yet we later look back on those same models nostalgically.  Heck, I’d bet folks complained about C2, when it was released.

Others complain about every new iPhone, until they have to go back and use an old one several years after adjusting to the new.  The C7 and C8 will likely grow on you, with time, people just dislike change.  

IMO, the worst era for Corvette was C4.  I always liked the C3’s best, which everyone else was trash-talking until just the last few years.  For some reason, the C2’s always get the most love, but I would rather own a C3 Stingray with a roots-blown smallblock.  If not turn down a C6, either.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 31, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Other than maybe C5, people have said that about every generation of Corvette, yet we later look back on those same models nostalgically.  Heck, I’d bet folks complained about C2, when it was released.
> 
> Others complain about every new iPhone, until they have to go back and use an old one several years after adjusting to the new.  The C7 and C8 will likely grow on you, with time, people just dislike change.
> 
> IMO, the worst era for Corvette was C4.  I always liked the C3’s best, which everyone else was trash-talking until just the last few years.  For some reason, the C2’s always get the most love, but I would rather own a C3 Stingray with a roots-blown smallblock.  If not turn down a C6, either.


Eh, it's just garish. Teenage me thought the C6ZR1 was God's gift to man. Now the only C6 I think looks nice is the 427 Convertible, and those aren't very pretty either. The C4 wasn't a blockbuster, but it doesn't look bad either. It's just a generic looking sports car to me now. I do agree, the C3, especially chrome bumper years (with a 427 BB), look fabulous and aged very well. Really I just have beef with the C6+, the modern age just killed the look. The cab forward C8 just looks wrong. Like a Ferrari 458 and Lamborghini Aventador had a strange unwanted child.


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