# Certifiable nut looking for a stove (insert?) in south Alabama



## Intheswamp (Jun 26, 2010)

Morning.  Ed, here, from down in hot, muggy, humid, south central Alabama about 60 miles south of Montgomery.  Before I head outside to mow the grass this morning (in the man killing, tree wilting humidity/heat) I thought I'd post this message so maybe some of ya'll could be chewing over it while I'm sweatin' and swatting horseflies.  I'm not sure where to start so I'll give you some background information, current information, wants/desires/wishes/fantasies, and a couple of pictures.

As mentioned above I'm located in south central Alabama and I'm hoping to install a wood burning appliance within the next couple of months.  We have an old existing fireplace that we would like to incorporate into the wood heating.  To the best of my knowledge there has never been a fire built in the fireplace unless it was immediately after the house was built.  There was two non-working propane floor-furnaces in the house, one was removed to use as a return for our geothermal system.  As I recall, these furnaces vented into the chimney from the back.  I've included pictures of the fireplace showing dimensions.  One dimension not shown is the throat (which is blocked with some rigid insulation that I installed some 20 years ago), the throats rough dimensions are 30"x8".

The house is brick and was built around 1950 and has lots of GIANT leaky single-pane windows in it.  Heated area is ~1830 square feet.  We currently heat/cool with the 5-ton geothermal unit which does a good job (no "emergency" heat strips installed)...except in times of power outages.  Even though the geothermal system is energy efficient it still makes those electron$ spin the meter thus wearing out those precious bearings in it...and I'm *really* concerned about the wear on those shiny little pearls.  

Anyhow, I would really like to at least supplement the geothermal heating with wood heat to lower the electricity bill....doing away completely with the dependency on electricity for heat would be great but not necessarily the goal, and I like the idea of a backup heating system.  

For some reason I'm drawn to the Jotul line of stoves/inserts.  Jotul seems to be a quality product and non-catalytic is a biggie for me.  It appears, though, that Jotul carries a premium price.  If there's another brand that would equal the Jotuls but maybe less expensive that would be great...I don't necessarily need an alligator on my shirt (but, I really do like those Jotuls  ).

The measurements in the pictures are for figuring out (of course) what will fit.  The stoves that I'm looking eyeballing strongly are the F3CB and the Castine.  I'm looking at the two smaller Jotul inserts.

I have a question here...with an insert, if the power goes out how well do they heat with the blowers not working?  Seems the stoves would definitely have an edge over the inserts.

One last thing, and I'll be quiet...does either the Castine or the F3CB have the ability to be used as a cooktop for maybe frying up bacon and eggs?

Well, that's about all of my uneducated mutterings this morning.  I really would appreciate some feedback...I need all the help that I can get as it seems there is an absence of  wood stove stores down my way.

Take care (anybody wanta come mow my grass for me?),
Ed



















ETA: Added picture of chimney top, FWIW


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## dougand3 (Jun 26, 2010)

Welcome, Ed. Auburn did get a good snow last year - maybe south Bama hasn't heard about this global warming thingy? I'd ask Algore about it but he's getting a massage. Here's a good read: http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoinsfs.htm
With what you have, I'd be looking at hearth mount options. Personally, I don't want to depend on a blower  - rather have radiant and/or convection principles in play.


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## begreen (Jun 26, 2010)

Greetings Ed. Although the stove choices are nice, and I love Jotul products, I think you will find that the 27" height of the fireplace opening is going to prevent installation of a lot of the freestanding stoves out there. For this size house I would not go smaller than the Castine or a Hearthstone Shelburne, but they need a good 29-30" lintel height. 

The Jotul C450 is right sized, but it does tend to sit more flush as an insert than others. If the goal is to have a stove that heats even when the power is out, this becomes important. For that reason, I would suggest looking at the Lopi Revere and the Pacific Energy Super inserts. For hearth mount freestanding, Hearthstone makes the Homestead which should fit nicely there.  But check the existing hearth construction carefully. This stove's hearth has a high R value requirement.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 27, 2010)

Wow, wow, wow....man it's HOT out there....just got through mowing roughly 3 acres of an Auburn experimental station (my yard, it's got a little bit of everything in it).  The bahia grass is so tough from the mini-drought and the high heat that it looks like I took a hair brush to it.<sigh>  Ah well, looks like a possible thunderstorm headin' this way so maybe it will wet things and cool things off a tad.  Did I mention it was HOT out there?  Yelp, gone bonkers...sittin' here drinking a cup of coffee...

Oh well, if the lights don't go out here's a reply...

Thanks for the feedback doughand3 and BeGreen.  Doug, we did have a good snow down this way, too...it, of course, shut the area down...I think somebody measure 3-4 inches down here...the county was getting ready to pull the snowplows out but nobody could find them (we think the commissioners sold them off for scrap iron to buy more moonshine from the sheriff).  Today, though, global warming was hitting on all two cylinders...did I mention it was HOT???  

Ok, enuff of my babblin',...on to the wood burner hunt....

I would really like to have a stove rather than an insert, but practicality is a strong force within me (most of the time).  I had looked at some of the Jotuls and was trying to figure out how to tell if they would fit or not.  Some of them noted that the top of the (rear) flue would be under 27" (my lintel height) so I figured they *might* work.  What I had figured on was if the "top of the flue" would clear the lintel  that I might have the entire stove sitting in front of the fireplace rather than partially inside of it and only have the flue going into the fireplace's firebox area.  I really need to figure out how to read the stove specs and interpret them into data that I can use.<sigh>

Well, having looked at those suggestion you made BeGreen, I'm beginning to warm up to the Lopi Revere.  Until now I haven't really placed steel stoves in the running.  The cook top is a definite "plus" and it looks like it could very well heat the entire house.  Thanks for pointing out the fact about some inserts being flush mounted and some not.

I'm still trying to work out the clearances that I need.  If you will notice, I have 10" of brick on either side of my firebox before a 4 1/2" deep cabinet side juts out into the room...this gives me a distance of 53 1/2 inches (10"+33.5"+10") between cabinet sides.  The Lopi Revere states that it is 24 1/2" wide and calls for 15" of clearance to _side walls_ which all together would be 54 1/2 inches.  Looking at my dimensions I am an inch short....story of my life.  Am I figuring this correctly?  Does the 4 1/2" of cabinet side count as a "wall"?

I'm also eyeballing the clearance to the mantel and the fact that I will probably need to build up the hearth because it appears I will need to extend it another 9" or so in front of the existing hearth.  Extending it out will cause the hearth to raise in height which will lift the wood burner closer to the mantel and shorten the fireplaces opening.

With no stores close by I'm sailing in uncharted waters for me.   Seems like lots of angles to look at. <sigh>

Ed


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2010)

Lopi makes good stoves. If it's any consolation, Jotul's inserts are steel with cast iron window dressing. 

Assuming the cabinet sides are combustible, they could be remedied with small, narrow side shields. I would have them made up at a sheet metal shop and paint them white. Attach them as wall shields, with metal standoffs. Keep the bottom 1" off the hearth and the top should stop 1" before the wood shelf lip so that the shield is open for air to circulate behind it freely. Have them bend one long edge in 1.5" so that it overlaps the cabinet corner for a more finished look.


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## tiber (Jun 27, 2010)

You're buying a stove in this heart? You must be crazy! Just look at the dog it's melted to the floor!

The catalytic thing - At first I too was opposed to it, then I started earnestly shopping around and you can have them for $100. If it lasts three years, it's $30 bucks a year. Since you're in the warmer part of America, the catalytic might be worth your time checking out.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 28, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Lopi makes good stoves. If it's any consolation, Jotul's inserts are steel with cast iron window dressing.
> 
> Assuming the cabinet sides are combustible, they could be remedied with small, narrow side shields. I would have them made up at a sheet metal shop and paint them white. Attach them as wall shields, with metal standoffs. Keep the bottom 1" off the hearth and the top should stop 1" before the wood shelf lip so that the shield is open for air to circulate behind it freely. Have them bend one long edge in 1.5" so that it overlaps the cabinet corner for a more finished look.



I've got to investigate the cabinet sides a bit more.  At first I was thinking they were made from the same type of mortarboard as most of the walls are (mortarboard 60 years old and hard as a rock with a metal backing).  I'm not so sure now, I'll check it out more.  If the side is the mortarboard don' t I still need to be cautious about the paint? ...We're talking about 1/2" closer than specs call far on each side, but...violating this spec could impact warranty, insurance, etc.,...correct?

From what I'm reading from your description I would want the shield mount against the brick coming out at a right angle to shield the side of the cabinet from the insert, extend out an inch beyond that wall, bend the metal to wrap around the corner and have a 1 1/2" lip to overhang the "front" of the cabinet.   About right?

Thanks for the feedback, I'm just feeling kind of overwhelmed...been decision, project here. 
Ed


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2010)

The wall shield mounts on the cabinet side, not the brick. From the top, it would look like an L with one side being the depth of the cabinet (~4") and the L leg being a narrow 1.5".


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## Intheswamp (Jun 28, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> You're buying a stove in this heart? You must be crazy! Just look at the dog it's melted to the floor!
> 
> The catalytic thing - At first I too was opposed to it, then I started earnestly shopping around and you can have them for $100. If it lasts three years, it's $30 bucks a year. Since you're in the warmer part of America, the catalytic might be worth your time checking out.



I ain't ever been accused of being "right in the head"...why risk it now?   The heat has really be rather interesting down here, we're about 100 miles inland from the gulf coast and I'm really wondering if the oil disaster is influencing the climate.  I've got lots of thoughts about all of that, but I'll leave it at that.

As for the dog....ain't you ever seen a "HOT DOG"?????  ...he'll be ok when we turn the a/c on.<grin>

Ok, I really hasn't accepted the idea of a stove/insert that is designed to need a replacement part within a few years.  I tend to think in a "long range" mindset where those parts *might not* be available.  But, having said that....you've tweeked my interest by your comment about me living "in the warmer part of America".  Seems in my haze of reading that the CAT stoves can be choked down more than a non-CAT and in doing so maybe not create as much cresote as the non-CAT would...???

I appreciate all ya'll's feedback...trust me, I need it!
Ed


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## tiber (Jun 28, 2010)

Don't feel overwhelmed. I came here a year ago talking about buying a jotul and putting in stovepipe and bouncing all sorts of ideas off people and I ended up buying a VC and completely switching out my ideas. A lot of it was simple conflict with my wife over the entire idea of burning something "dirty" like wood (she's never in the crawlspace for the oil burner exhaust). The other half was her persistant "easy to use" requirement since my macho neighbor and fishing buddy make wood burning out to be like the space shuttle, hence the catalyst idea.

Just to expand on what BeGreen (he's incredibly helpful) said, the paint would count as a surface material and the requirement is that surface materials are noncombustable. If you're "framing in" a stove, 24ga or better sheet metal meets the requirements for noncombustable until you paint it. For the paint, look for either high temp stove paint made specifically for dealing with the heat, or if you're at your local auto parts shop the high temp paint (engine paint, brake paint) comes in a variety of colors.

So going back to the idea of surface combustables versus assemblies, what I would do would be to hit up your local home building store and buy a roll of flashing and machine screws (typically the "stand offs" are machine threaded). The flashing can be cut with tin snips, and if you're like me you'll end up doing a terrible job and putting the side you cut towards the brick.

I realize you're asking because you don't want to hurt the shelving, but why not simply bump the covered brick area back for the inch? Or is it that there's not brick under it?

*EDIT:* Yes a cat stove can be choked down and not burn dirty moreso than a noncat stove if you're buying a quality stove. The catalytic can be poisoned by burning junk, but three years is the "worst case" my local stove store presented me with and it's probably closer to 10 years if you're being reasonable with the stove. (I'm sure there are people on here who will tell you they last forever and they probably do if you baby them). The cats show up on Amazon for $100 or so.


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The wall shield mounts on the cabinet side, not the brick. From the top, it would look like an L with one side being the depth of the cabinet (~4") and the L leg being a narrow 1.5".


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## Intheswamp (Jun 28, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The wall shield mounts on the cabinet side, not the brick. From the top, it would look like an L with one side being the depth of the cabinet (~4") and the L leg being a narrow 1.5".



Would the gap between the edge of the shield and the brick need to be sealed or is just a snug "butted up against" fit be ok?

The part of the shield that wraps around the front of the cabinet...it should be spaced the same as the side portion?

I emailed a "local" company (about 75-80 miles from me) regarding working with me on the stove...hopefully I'll hear back from them today.

Thanks for the help!
Ed


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## begreen (Jun 28, 2010)

No need to seal the gap where it meets the brick. The short leg of the shield that wraps to the front of the cabinet does not need the air gap. It should be flush with the cabinet for a better look. 

Actually it probably doesn't need the L leg at all if you don't like that look. It could just have the front edge bent in at a 45 so that it meets the corner of the cabinet. If you chose that style I would have them hem (fold over) the front edge for a cleaner look.


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## tiber (Jun 28, 2010)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> Would the gap between the edge of the shield and the brick need to be sealed or is just a snug "butted up against" fit be ok?



The one inch air gap behind the shield is a fire code requirement which says it needs to be one inch away from the combustables. The sides I don't recall it mentioning but logically it seems to me that they should touch the brick in your situation. The top and bottom (to quote the code) should have "at least 50% of a one inch gap open for circulation".

You're specifically asking about code requirements, at this point you probably want to check to make sure local codes aren't stricter than the national fire code.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 29, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> Don't feel overwhelmed. I came here a year ago talking about buying a jotul and putting in stovepipe and bouncing all sorts of ideas off people and I ended up buying a VC and completely switching out my ideas. A lot of it was simple conflict with my wife over the entire idea of burning something "dirty" like wood (she's never in the crawlspace for the oil burner exhaust). The other half was her persistant "easy to use" requirement since my macho neighbor and fishing buddy make wood burning out to be like the space shuttle, hence the catalyst idea.



Ditto with my wife.  Just getting a little resistance...dirt issue, rearranging furniture to move her recliner further from the stove (she's normally the cold one...in the winter).  Another BIG issue that both of us have is that we have a 3 1/2 year old granddaughter and another grand munchkin on the way...I'm mentioned to her that some folks build fences...



			
				tiber said:
			
		

> Just to expand on what BeGreen (he's incredibly helpful) said, the paint would count as a surface material and the requirement is that surface materials are noncombustable. If you're "framing in" a stove, 24ga or better sheet metal meets the requirements for noncombustable until you paint it. For the paint, look for either high temp stove paint made specifically for dealing with the heat, or if you're at your local auto parts shop the high temp paint (engine paint, brake paint) comes in a variety of colors.
> 
> So going back to the idea of surface combustables versus assemblies, what I would do would be to hit up your local home building store and buy a roll of flashing and machine screws (typically the "stand offs" are machine threaded). The flashing can be cut with tin snips, and if you're like me you'll end up doing a terrible job and putting the side you cut towards the brick.



I guess by "framing in" you mean installing heat shields if/where needed?  Thanks for the tip on the flashing and heat paint...around here you can find somebody to weld and might find someone with a brake for bending aluminum roofing/siding...no real sheet metal shops so the heat shields may boil down to a d-i-y project.



			
				tiber said:
			
		

> I realize you're asking because you don't want to hurt the shelving, but why not simply bump the covered brick area back for the inch? Or is it that there's not brick under it?



I'm pretty sure that there is brick under there, but I'm more sure that I'd bugger it up if I tried to knock it back.  I think putting a shield there will work better...and if in the future I decide to do something different the cabinet should still be intact.  Of course that Rancher 55 always enjoys a good workout...VROOOOM! VROOOOOMMM...LOOKOUT HONEY!  I'VE GOT SOME REMODELING TO DO  YEHAWWWWWW       Oops, sorry about that, it just comes out sometimes....



			
				tiber said:
			
		

> *EDIT:* Yes a cat stove can be choked down and not burn dirty moreso than a noncat stove if you're buying a quality stove. The catalytic can be poisoned by burning junk, but three years is the "worst case" my local stove store presented me with and it's probably closer to 10 years if you're being reasonable with the stove. (I'm sure there are people on here who will tell you they last forever and they probably do if you baby them). The cats show up on Amazon for $100 or so.


Thanks for the feedback on the cats.  That was kind of what I was thinking.  So then, a cat stove should do an overnight burn better than a non-cat?  I'm still hedging on that.  Seems I read an article the other day that it appears that manufacturers are beginning to drift away from the cat stoves simply by the increase of non-cat stove models and the decrease of cat models (this is according to the article...I have no idea if this is true or not).

Thanks again for the feedback!
Ed (loosing one brain cell at a time)


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## tiber (Jun 29, 2010)

So what I would suggest doing, since you sound really interested in the project, surf around and grab a bunch of stove manuals. Or even go to your stove shop and ask for them. I am building my hearth area so that I can put a just about any other stove on there. While it might require a different pad, the wall shields and clearances for my particular project are future proofed so I can put any other stove on there when this one dies. I sat down with every manual I could get my hands on and tried to make educated choices from there. It also helps to read the fire code and talk to your local codes inspector.

With regards to the catalytic to noncatalytic debate, this is the stuff of endless internet debate. The cat stoves will burn more evenly and tend to be about 5% more efficient, but people get rubbed wrong at the idea of having to replace something. (I wonder if they change their own oil?) For reference, Jotul is noncatalytic, and people love them. Blaze King (http://www.blazeking.com/) produces amazingly long burn times and even heat, and they're catalytic (they're also the largest stove money can buy as far as I know). The Hearth.com knowledgebase suggests smaller stoves do better as noncats while larger stoves do better as catalytics: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/QA_Templates/info/687/

My personal take on it after almost a year of discussing the project is that the replacement catalytics are easy to find (amazon.com), and as the technology gets better for making the chemistry buying a new cat upgrades the stove the same as putting the right exhaust system on your car helps squeeze more out of the engine.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 29, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> No need to seal the gap where it meets the brick. The short leg of the shield that wraps to the front of the cabinet does not need the air gap. It should be flush with the cabinet for a better look.
> 
> Actually it probably doesn't need the L leg at all if you don't like that look. It could just have the front edge bent in at a 45 so that it meets the corner of the cabinet. If you chose that style I would have them hem (fold over) the front edge for a cleaner look.



BeGreen, thanks for the drawing and feedback.  You answered my questions even before I could ask the questions!  That's pretty good!  Your drawing explained things nicely

I just mentioned to Tiber that there wasn't any sheet metal shops around here but then I had a "DUHHHH" moment and recalled vaguely that we put a metal roof on our house last year (I'm a really sharp blade in the drawer here).  I'm sure they could make me these small shields for me, the only problem might be is that the heaviest roofing metal was 26 gauge...maybe they have some heavier (24 gauge) stuff used for other things.  Definitely a place to check out.  Who knows, they may even have metal already prepainted with heat resistance paint that would work.

Yes, I think the 45* bend might work good.

I think I have a pretty good idea about what to do about the sidewalls of the cabinets (thanks to ya'll), but what about the mantel?  Does it look like there's enough clearance there?  Remember that I'll be needing to extend the hearth out some so depending on what I use for hearth material it will decrease the available clearance some.   Below are the clearances and firebox/fireplace dimensions required for the Revere.

Thanks!
Ed


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## tiber (Jun 29, 2010)

I see 21 3/4"s clearance and they suggest 30" with a mantle shield. 

A mantle shield is the L shaped piece of metal we've been talking about: http://www.amazon.com/Copperfield-54110-HomeSaver-Mantel-Shield/dp/B001D1DU3O (for that price you can buy enough flashing to shield things twice over easily).

However, even putting a shield on that you're probably going to have to raise it since the shielded clearance (30") is more than your mantle would be shielded.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Jun 29, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> I see 21 3/4"s clearance and they suggest 30" with a mantle shield.
> 
> A mantle shield is the L shaped piece of metal we've been talking about: http://www.amazon.com/Copperfield-54110-HomeSaver-Mantel-Shield/dp/B001D1DU3O (for that price you can buy enough flashing to shield things twice over easily).
> 
> However, even putting a shield on that you're probably going to have to raise it since the shielded clearance (30") is more than your mantle would be shielded.



funny, the inflate list price to make thier "sale" seem better

notes i added to our site
•Angled lip is 2 3/4 inches wide, has a depth or "face" of 10"
•Can be cut to size
•Comes predrilled with Hardware and ready to mount
•Allows a clearance reduction from 18" to 9" for Stovepipe
•Allows a clearance reduction from 36" to 18" from the top of an unlisted stove. This refers to a stove that has not been thru laboratory safety testing like all modern stoves have been. This comes from the NFPA 211 National Fire Protection Association guidelines which are recognized by most building departments and may or may not be approved for reducing clearances in your situation. These standards have been used for years by putting sheet metal shields with a 1" air space on walls to reduce stove and stovepipe clearances and is a long standing recognized way to reduce radiant heat for closer clearances to combustibles.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 29, 2010)

Tiber, I hear you on the cat/non-cat debate....seems certain topics on different forums create good debate around the coffee cup.  I've taken under consideration what you've said...  It looks like for now I've gotta figure out my clearance issues.

In looking at the specs for the Revere I'm beginning to think that my fireplace area might just be too cramped to squeeze a woodburner in.<sigh>   If you look at the "Minimum Fireplace Size" table you'll notice that dimension "J" is stated as 49 1/4 inches from top of hearth to bottom of mantel. Figuring the height of my firebox at 27" and then the distance from the lintel to the bottom trim of the mantel being 21 3/4" then I've got a total height of 48 3/4" to work with.

Isn't the table showing 22 1/2" with the shield?  

The manual says to measure from cook top surface, so measuring from stove top (18 3/4") to bottom part of mantel I arrive at:

18 3/4" + 30 1/2" = 49.25"  (without mantel shield)
18 3/4" + 22 1/2" = 41.25"  (with mantel shield)

Knowing that I will be putting down some type of hearth/pad my 48 3/4" height will be reduced a bit.  A half inch?...inch?...two inches?  Without this added thickness I already don't have enough clearance for the insert without a mantel shield, but it looks like I would have enough clearance using the shield even with the decreased clearance from adding the hearth/pad.  Am I figuring this correctly???

Of course (if my cipherin' is correct) this will mean another heat shield.  Is it common to have heat shields surrounding stoves/inserts?  I'd rather not have my living room beginning to look like a World's Fair sheet metal display, but....

Thanks,
Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jun 29, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> So what I would suggest doing, since you sound really interested in the project, surf around and grab a bunch of stove manuals. Or even go to your stove shop and ask for them. I am building my hearth area so that I can put a just about any other stove on there. While it might require a different pad, the wall shields and clearances for my particular project are future proofed so I can put any other stove on there when this one dies. I sat down with every manual I could get my hands on and tried to make educated choices from there. It also helps to read the fire code and talk to your local codes inspector.
> 
> <snip>


Finding someone around here who even knows *if* we have a local code, much less an inspector will be a job in itself.  I live in a rural area, but even the local town has just in the last few years gotten a building inspector...though they've been charging for building permits for decades (aren't permits supposed to used to pay the inspector?).

Anyhow, I'll see what the state fire code is...probably the same as the federal code.  

Ed


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## tiber (Jun 29, 2010)

OK by my math, you have 48.75 inches with the dressing under the main beam there, and 50.75 inches if you take the woodworking out from under the mantle shelf. So if your clearances are 49.25 inches for a masonry fireplace. Would the one inch make a difference? Probably don't want to risk it. However you're in the clear if you get rid of the woodworking under the shelf and that diagram you posted is true.

Anyway, sounds like you're in the same boat I am - I have a fireplace but the room it's in is a small den, and more on the point the firebox is so small it really wouldn't be useful. That's why I've got a standalone stove I'm doing up in the livingroom: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/56441/


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## begreen (Jun 30, 2010)

26 ga will work ok, 24ga would be nicer but it won't shield the heat any better. It will just be stiffer and less vulnerable to dings. You are right on the cusp for a mantle shield. You could try running without one and monitor the mantle temp, but I would go ahead and have one made up. The same shop could make up another shield just like the sides for above the stove. Paint it black so that it doesn't stand out. Or maybe they might have some dark brown roofing metal.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 30, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> OK by my math, you have 48.75 inches with the dressing under the main beam there, and 50.75 inches if you take the woodworking out from under the mantle shelf. So if your clearances are 49.25 inches for a masonry fireplace. Would the one inch make a difference? Probably don't want to risk it. However you're in the clear if you get rid of the woodworking under the shelf and that diagram you posted is true.
> 
> Anyway, sounds like you're in the same boat I am - I have a fireplace but the room it's in is a small den, and more on the point the firebox is so small it really wouldn't be useful. That's why I've got a standalone stove I'm doing up in the livingroom: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/56441/


Yelp, I'm just a hair shy of what I need for the mantel.  I guess I'd have to install a heat shield for the mantel.  How would one of these be built?  The link you gave above showing the mantel shield shows an "L" piece of metal.  How is it attached?  I'm beginning to wonder if it might not work better to simply build a surround/alcove for the insert out of a non-combustible material.

I'm beginning to come around full circle back to a stove, too.  With the clearance issues I've thought about downsizing the heater to the Jotul F100.  Small heater, I know, but I'm down here in south Alabama.  This past winter we had the coldest winter in a *long* time...actually had a week or two where night time temps were constantly down in the 20's and upper teens...down here nobody plans for cold, freezing weather....folks scurry about wrapping pipes and faucets, leaving water dripping, etc.,.  Rarely is freezing temps more than a few nights in a row...this past winter was an exception.  The F 100 is basically stated as an "up to 1000 square feet" heater which would heat the major portion of the house and the area that we frequent the most...two bedrooms could be closed off with no problem.  Maybe a smaller heater would work for us...just thinking (I really tend to cause chaos when I do that).

I checked out your thread on your install...looking good.  You're way past me  Hopefully I can get something started before long....if nothing else at least decide on a unit, plan of action, etc.,....I would really like to purchase in the next few weeks to be the fall "rush".

I've still gotta address the chimney issue, too.  I'm planning on going the flexible ss route...just gotta figure out how to seal the chimney off, if I will use a fresh air supply, what cap to use, etc., etc.,...  At least all the plotting and planning keeps my mind off the impending grunion invasion.   

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jun 30, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> 26 ga will work ok, 24ga would be nicer but it won't shield the heat any better. It will just be stiffer and less vulnerable to dings. You are right on the cusp for a mantle shield. You could try running without one and monitor the mantle temp, but I would go ahead and have one made up. The same shop could make up another shield just like the sides for above the stove. Paint it black so that it doesn't stand out. Or maybe they might have some dark brown roofing metal.


I'm thinking the place where I bought the roofing handles heavier gauge metal for metal sided buildings.  I'll check it out when the time comes.  I'll probably see how the mantel does without the shield at first, but it does have a lip around the bottom that creates a "cup" area that could collect and hold the heat...in other words the bottom is not flush out to the edge.

I was figuring on painting the shields on the cabinets white to match the cabinets but I might try it in black first to see how it matches the mantel shield.  Thanks for the continued feedback.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jun 30, 2010)

Well, the "local" stove store that I contacted has not responded to me in three days so I'm writing them off...might be a communications glitch, but probably they heard I was a raving lunatic or something (I wonder who's been spreading rumors again?  ).


Anybody know of a store in Birmingham and south here in Alabama?  I'm actually about 40 miles south of Montgomery so basically all of south Alabama is fair game for a good store...Montgomery or Dothan would be *real* nice. 

I did drop a note to "Bollen's in Breman, GA (my wife's sister lives north of there so we *could* make a road trip if we had to...).

I'm ah tryin' figure it out but all this thinkin' is makin' muh head hurtz.

Ed


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## dougand3 (Jul 1, 2010)

We have a pretty good stove shop in Huntsville - but this is 15 miles from Tennessee. Probably 250 miles for you. Southern Home and Hearth - if you want to check them out.


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## begreen (Jul 1, 2010)

Did you check Lopi's website? They list Top Hat Chimney Sweeps: http://www.hearthshoppe.com/ in Opelika and Colonial Fireplace in Pelham: http://www.colonialfireplace.com/


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## Intheswamp (Jul 1, 2010)

dougand3 said:
			
		

> We have a pretty good stove shop in Huntsville - but this is 15 miles from Tennessee. Probably 250 miles for you. Southern Home and Hearth - if you want to check them out.


Weeee...well, that would be a pretty good road trip there!  I'll probably hold off on that one...Birmingham is really about as far as I'd care to go for a stove, though the store over in Georgia would be a side trip from a trip to sister-in-laws house.  I'll keep it in mind, though Doug, thanks for the recommendation!

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 1, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Did you check Lopi's website? They list Top Hat Chimney Sweeps: http://www.hearthshoppe.com/ in Opelika and Colonial Fireplace in Pelham: http://www.colonialfireplace.com/


  Yelp, checked the website's dealer finder out.  I emailed Colonial just a few minutes ago.  Top Hat was the one I emailed this past weekend.  Hopefully I'll be hearing from one of them soon.

Take care,
Ed

<sigh>  Well, just as I clicked on <SUBMIT> to post the message I received a bounced mail notification about the email I sent to Colonial.  They had two address....one address for a Pelham and Robertsdale location and another for their Huntsivlle location.  I resent the message to the Huntsville location.  We'll see...


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## Intheswamp (Jul 1, 2010)

The second email to Colonial bounced also.  I finally left a short note on their "form" contact page....hope it doesn't bounce.  :roll:


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## dougand3 (Jul 1, 2010)

We had a Colonial Fireplace branch in Huntsville. I just learned of it 3 months ago - and went by to check them out at that time. The lady in that building wasn't Colonial Fireplace - they just shared office space. She said they just left and went back to Pelham. And they left behind ~ 20 showroom gas fireplaces, all piped in and functioning. Seems like a rather curious business model there.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 2, 2010)

dougand3 said:
			
		

> We had a Colonial Fireplace branch in Huntsville. I just learned of it 3 months ago - and went by to check them out at that time. The lady in that building wasn't Colonial Fireplace - they just shared office space. She said they just left and went back to Pelham. And they left behind ~ 20 showroom gas fireplaces, all piped in and functioning. Seems like a rather curious business model there.


Thanks for the info on Colonial. that does sound like a strange business plan...who do ya 'reckon is holding the bag on those gas heaters?  

The different dealers that I've emailed have yet to respond to my emails.  I've only tried to contact these dealers via email so I probably need to call them...it just aggravates me that they can respond to an email within 5-6 days...why even list an email contact and waste a customer's time writing an inquiry only not to respond? ...that's not a good business plan, either, eh?  (I bathed last Saturday night and even put on some smellgood stuff so it can't be my smell...or was that week for'last?)

Ah well, I sent an email off to Travis Industries to see if they could point me in the direction of a dealer.  At the minimum it looks like the closest dealer is about 75 miles but I'm willing to travel possibly 150-200 miles for the right deal.  The lack of response from the Lopi dealers is beginning to make me wander back to looking back at the Jotuls and other brands again, even considering downsizing the unit a bit to maybe squeeze a freestanding stove in there.

In regards to a chimney liner...  I've read a couple of places where folks use perlite(?) to insulate around the liner once it is in place in the masonry chimney but then it seems I've read more places where it appears the installers do not insulate around the liners and that the liner basically supports itself within the masonry chimney .  I've yet to inspect my chimney but I've been pretty much thinking of using a double-walled liner.  Will I need to do this insulating around the flexible flue?  Will the liner "self support" itself?  Questions, questions....<sigh>  Thanks for putting up with me.

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 2, 2010)

Well, I finally got someone to respond, here's a direct quote...
_
"revere insert with door,fan,liner kit,wall panels-$3428.00 plus labor , same unit as freestanding stove-$2646.00 plus stove pipe and labor"_

Not overly talkative there, but at least a response.  Anybody got any thoughts on that price?  I'm a little confused on the "liner kit" part of the first quote.  I didn't realize the insert would be more expensive than the stove. ????

Ed

I just thought I was confused when I started looking for a wood burner


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## tiber (Jul 3, 2010)

My google-fu is great and would seem to put that quote on the high side, but then again you're in freaking alabama and woodstoves aren't really something people are looking for down that way. I would actually call them up, explain you live an hour away and ask them what their prices are and then decide if it's worth the drive. I find that its better to call these guys up for a quote, more and more stove stores in PA are giving out prices over the phone since they know they're competing with the likes of Bass Pro and Cabelas up here. Maybe mention that (or check in with your local bass pro/cabelas).


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## Intheswamp (Jul 9, 2010)

tiber said:
			
		

> My google-fu is great and would seem to put that quote on the high side, but then again you're in freaking alabama and woodstoves aren't really something people are looking for down that way. I would actually call them up, explain you live an hour away and ask them what their prices are and then decide if it's worth the drive. I find that its better to call these guys up for a quote, more and more stove stores in PA are giving out prices over the phone since they know they're competing with the likes of Bass Pro and Cabelas up here. Maybe mention that (or check in with your local bass pro/cabelas).



Morning tiber.  Yelp, the price quoted above seemed high to me but looks like it is the average quoted price...maybe dictated by the Lopi?  I'm afraid that you may be right in inferring that prices in the deep south are going to be higher than they are up north.  I was looking at some messages from 2006 and according to what I'm seeing an F3CB has increased in price by about 40% from then (in a northern area) to now (from a quote from Georgia).

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 9, 2010)

If prices are getting to you, try contacting some Buck dealers in the area. They are made in NC. Good stout stoves. Their dealer locater shows a dealer in Brewton.

There is another option. That would be to tap into the flue above the damper. This would allow a small freestanding stove like you originally wanted. The hearth would need to be extended, but that is not a big deal as long as the hearth requirement is for just a non-combustible hearth.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 9, 2010)

Well, my head's kinda spinnin' from tryin' to read all the messages on the forum.  I'm still bouncing around on what I want to do.  Here are a few of my (tormented) thoughts...

* Would love to install a Castine, but I'm afraid clearances will not allow it.

* F3CB is my next choice of a stove, but it will be probably too small, BUT...I live in south Alabama where I don't have to fight 0* temperatures (very often, anyhow).  The F3CB should be ok with my clearances with some added heat shields.  I like the looks.

* Lopi Revere would probably be the most utilitarian stove, but still the look of the gray steel kind of throws me off.  Extending onto the hearth and the 10"(?) cooktop are defintely pluses for it.  Still, without the fans running...how well does it heat?

* If I choose a stove I'm pretty sure (in my weeble feeble mind) that it will need to be a rear venting stove....lintel only being 27" high.

* I will have to install a hearth board or build up my present hearth.  This will effectively reduce the clearance to the lintel even more.

* Pricing down here in south/central Alabama seem to be at a premium...

So far quotes for Lopi Revere, fan kit, black door, and surround have been $2728, $2680, and $2628.  These, I'm sure, are plus tax.  I did get one more quote: "revere insert with door,fan,liner kit,wall panels-$3428.00 plus labor , same unit as freestanding stove-$2646.00 plus stove pipe and labor".  I'm not sure how to take that last one...didn't seem like much information or inspiration to sell me a stove.

As for quotes on an F3CB I haven't been able to get many so far.  I've gotten a quote of $1727 for a matte black F3 and $2065 for the blue-black enamel.

One place has quoted me $25 per foot for flexible liner (but no description/brand given).  Another place stated that they wouldn't quote me on liner material until they do a "Level II" video inspection of my chimney for $299.

So's....that's what I've come up with so far.  I've got a couple of companies that I'm talking with that actually seem to understand somewhat about installation, etc.,.  I had one that send me a disjointed (probably would have done good texting on a cellphone..."U NEED WUD HEET IT GRATE"...here's a quoted line from that email..._"the advantage of a free standing is the radiant heat and if your clearances are very tight then you can opt for a bigger model."_....huh???

Anyhow, I'm trying to figure out the lay of the land and have a few brain cells left to work with.  I'm hopefully going up to measure chimney top to hearth distance this weekend.  

Little wheels are turning in my head...those mice are gonna get tired sooner or later, though...
Ed


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## begreen (Jul 9, 2010)

> * If I choose a stove I’m pretty sure (in my weeble feeble mind) that it will need to be a rear venting stove….lintel only being 27” high.



The F3CB is a decent little heater. Rear vent height of 25 9/16" looks like it will just squeak under the 27" lintel. For a comparison price, give Preston Trading Post in CT a call.

860.886.1484 
edwards@prestontradingpost.com


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## Intheswamp (Jul 9, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> If prices are getting to you, try contacting some Buck dealers in the area. They are made in NC. Good stout stoves. Their dealer locater shows a dealer in Brewton.
> 
> There is another option. That would be to tap into the flue above the damper. This would allow a small freestanding stove like you originally wanted. The hearth would need to be extended, but that is not a big deal as long as the hearth requirement is for just a non-combustible hearth.


Howdy BG.

The price is important, of course, but I'm willing to pay for what I want...I just don't want to be held-up at stovepoint if you know what I mean.

Looking at the Buck Stoves I think I'd want to go with an insert with that brand.  Could the Buck inserts be extended out into the room (kind of a Lopi Revere look)?

I've pondered the idea of going in above the fireplace (would solve a lot of issues and I like that look), but I"m a bit hesitant about that big of a modification...definitely not a DIY for me.  Do you think there would be enough room to tap into the flue and keep the mantel...with heat shield and double-wall pipe?

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 9, 2010)

The Buck website is a little confusing, but the model 21 and 74 can be ordered as inserts. How far forward it can project into the room is a matter of the liner connection alignment. 

As to a thimble penetration on the face, if below the mantel it would depend on the location of the top of the damper shelf. It might be close, but it looks like you have enough room to have the double-wall connector more than 6" below the mantel. If that is the case, no mantel shield needed.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 9, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> > * If I choose a stove I’m pretty sure (in my weeble feeble mind) that it will need to be a rear venting stove….lintel only being 27” high.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yelp, the F3CB would slip under the lintel ok.  Looks like they carry roughly a $300 premium down this way...it must be from a stronger magnetic force on my billfold since I'm closer to the equator.   So far I've been quoted *only* $100 over retail price on the blue/black F3 (I'd hate to see what they charge during the winter!). :-/

I'm beginning to think about gettin' a 55-gallon drum and setting it up on cement blocks.<sigh>

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 9, 2010)

The blue-black F3CB is what we had. It's a sharp looking little stove. We paid $1349 in 2005 for it.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 9, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The blue-black F3CB is what we had. It's a sharp looking little stove. We paid $1349 in 2005 for it.


Hmm, only 53% more here in south Alabama five years later....I tell ya, I'm getting a warm fuzzy feeling all over me just thinking about it. 

Yelp, the blue/black is a good looking stove...from the pics that I've seen.  I'm thinking that the (much) better half will be happier with the enamel in regards to wipe it and forget it kind of surface cleaning.   I've read some of your experiences about the F3 and have lodged the issue of the top needing to be correctly positioned...lodged the info between some lobes of my brain (well they used to be lobes, now they're more like over ripe cantalopes that have sat in the field too long).

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 9, 2010)

Ouch. Part of that is the dollar's devaluation vs the euro. My wife and I both loved the blue-black enameling on the Jotuls. It's understated, elegant and stands up well. We miss it on the Alderlea. Funny you found the old thread on the top. The removable top is gasketed and is one of the nice features, it makes for easier cleaning. Just be sure there aren't any melons in the stove before putting the top back on.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 15, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Ouch. Part of that is the dollar's devaluation vs the euro. My wife and I both loved the blue-black enameling on the Jotuls. It's understated, elegant and stands up well. We miss it on the Alderlea. Funny you found the old thread on the top. The removable top is gasketed and is one of the nice features, it makes for easier cleaning. Just be sure there aren't any melons in the stove before putting the top back on.



Yelp, inflation and devaluation causes all kinds of ills.

The thread about the F3CB's crooked top is a very helpful one.  I wonder how many folks have raised cane with their dealer because of it...

My stove hunt is beginning to take on a dismal look.  I've contacted most every dealer within a 150 miles from here, even as far as Atlanta and NE Alabama...either they don't respond to emails, don't answer their phone, price me above retail, or tell me they quit handling Jotul because ______.   Honestly, the last one I talked with should've had "Duelin' Banjos" playin' in the background...and he wasn't anywhere near a mountain.  As much as I'd like to get a F3CB I may have to go for something else or just put off the wood burning adventure.  I'm beginning to think that south Alabama isn't the place to shop for a stove...unless you want a Lowes or Home Depot one...which might not be a bad idea.

...who knows,...I think I found an email address for Jotul so I might bend their ear a little...for what good it will do.  I wonder if Jotul has a "hit list"...ah well, it won't be the first list I've made it on.

Ed


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## Todd (Jul 15, 2010)

If your going to build or extend the hearth you may want to consider a Woodstock keystone or Palladian. It's a side loader so you would need 16" side clearance but only 8" in front. My rear exhaust is 27" high but Woodstock says if it's tight they can lower it an inch or so to make it work. I paid $2079 for mine but with the tax credit it comes to $1455 and you can also include flue system as well as hearth. I think a soapstone cat stove would be a good fit for a southern boy. I used to live in Mobile and they had a fireplace shop there and sold a few stoves so they do burn wood in the deep south.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah if you don't want a steel stove, which I just cannot imagine, then a Woodstock stove is the best bet. No worrying about finding a dealer to buy the stove from or to handle any issues you might have with it along the way.


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## ddddddden (Jul 16, 2010)

+1 for a cat stove for relatively mild winters. The only problem with Woodstock is that they want to deliver to a freight depot, so you might have to drive to the city to pick it up. However, they will deliver to any business with a loading dock, so if you have a local feed & seed,  hardware store, etc. who will do you a favor, you'd be set.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 16, 2010)

Den said:
			
		

> +1 for a cat stove for relatively mild winters. The only problem with Woodstock is that they want to deliver to a freight depot, so you might have to drive to the city to pick it up. However, they will deliver to any business with a loading dock, so if you have a local feed & seed,  hardware store, etc. who will do you a favor, you'd be set.



Any place with a fork lift will do just fine. I have a manual lift that I just take down to the road, crank up the forks and take the stuff off the truck. Never had any complaints from any freight company. Darn thing cost me a hundred bucks at a bankruptcy sale 10 years ago and has paid for itself many times over in reduced delivery charges.


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## ddddddden (Jul 16, 2010)

True dat.  Forklift would be best. . .makes getting it into your pickup really easy.   Might as well call Woodstock, give them your ZIP, and find out how close they can get to you with one of their carrier's depots. Don't be surprised if you find yourself talking to them for 30 mins about all of your requirements and eventually ordering from them.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm limping along here...

Quick comment...  The Woodstocks appear to require a 7" flue.  I'm a bit hestitant to invest $$$ in a 7" flue being as most stoves of this size call for a 6" flue.  Am I right to be thinking/concerned about this or am I going overboard worrying about things that I shouldn't?

Ed


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## dougand3 (Jul 17, 2010)

Generally, you want chimney size = flue collar exit..best chance for optimum draft. And 7" is in the minority. The smaller Woodstocks - Keystone - have 7 " flues while the larger Fireview has 6" flue...go figure. Woodstock had refurbished stoves on half price sale last month. Check with them - may be a great deal.


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2010)

If this deal is of interest to you, don't dawdle. Snooze ya may loose.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/56614/P22/#644131

When looking at Woodstocks, this guide should be helpful:
http://www.woodstove.com/pages/pdffiles/Fireplace9_Layout 1.pdf


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## Todd (Jul 17, 2010)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> I'm limping along here...
> 
> Quick comment... The Woodstocks appear to require a 7" flue. I'm a bit hestitant to invest $$$ in a 7" flue being as most stoves of this size call for a 6" flue. Am I right to be thinking/concerned about this or am I going overboard worrying about things that I shouldn't?
> 
> Ed



Their stoves are approved for 6" flue and they sell an adapter. I bought one for mine.


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## tutu_sue (Jul 19, 2010)

Try calling Lehman's - 888-438-5346.  They are a catalog oufit in Ohio.  They carry many stove lines, but not are all listed on their web site due to manufacturer's restrictions.  They have excellent customer service and technical know how.  We had a stove shipped from them to our local FedEx freight terminal.  The price was several hundred dollars less with shipping than we could have gotten locally.  

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Stoves___Heat_Stoves?Args=&view;_all=&sort;_by=


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## Intheswamp (Jul 19, 2010)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> Try calling Lehman's - 888-438-5346.  They are a catalog oufit in Ohio.  They carry many stove lines, but not are all listed on their web site due to manufacturer's restrictions.  They have excellent customer service and technical know how.  We had a stove shipped from them to our local FedEx freight terminal.  The price was several hundred dollars less with shipping than we could have gotten locally.
> 
> http://www.lehmans.com/store/Stoves___Heat_Stoves?Args=&view;_all=&sort;_by=


Thanks for the tip on Lehman's...I hadn't thought about them.  I'm beginning to get some pricing on some things now.  Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 19, 2010)

Well,  I'm still studying over stove manuals and trying to figure things out.  Here is some info I'm comparing taking into consideration that my install has:

                                                * Limited lintel clearance:  27" (the big factor here)
                                                * Limited hearth width to sidewall:  53-1/2"

These are the three stoves in the running:

Quadra-Fire Yosemite
Centerline of rear flue exit:   -
Theoretical top of flue:  22-7/16" (what the drawings show)
Maximum height remaining for hearth pad:     (27" minus 22-7/16")
Required hearth R-value:  2.2 (was not found in manual, had to email QuadraFire for it)
Width of Stove:  25-5/8"
Width of hearth:  53-1/2"
Clearance required to sidewall required:  10"
Clearance required with heatshield :    N/A
Total stove width plus _unshielded_ sidewall clearance:   45-5/8" (fits by ~8")
*No Mantel shield is required.
Log size:  18"
Firebox size:  1.45cf
Weight:  365 lbs
*Pros:*  (1) It's 1.46cf firebox is almost a half a cubic foot larger than the fireboxes of the other two stoves.  (2) It appears that no side wall or mantel shields will be required.  (3) Longer burn times(?)  (4) Welded steel firebox and firebricks...should extend heating time (?).
*Cons:* (1) Will require a heavier duty hearth pad.  (2) I have read of issues with the side door handle not securely latching.  (3) I am not sure if the Yosemite has had as much real-life use by consumers...seems not as many owners here...???  (4) Heaviest stove of these three due to welded steel firebox and firebricks (which is probably a good thing)  (5) Baffle design causes problems sometimes with logs rolling out the front (or am I thinking of another stove...they say your memory is one of the first things to go).  (6) Apparently not much choice in finishes...cast iron or mahogany.

Jotul F3CB
Centerline of rear flue exit:   22-9/16"
Theoretical top of flue:  25-9/16"
Maximum height remaining for hearth pad:  1-7/16"   (27" minus 25-9/16")
Required hearth R-value:  1.1
Width of Stove:  22-3/4"
Width of hearth:  53-1/2"
Clearance required to sidewall required:  24"
Clearance required with heatshield :   14-2/5" (Figured at conservative 60% of unshielded)
Total stove width plus 60% clearance with shields:  51-11/20" (fits by ~2")
Log size:  18"
Firebox size:  ~1.0cf
Weight:  265 lbs
*Pros:*  (1) Well known brand and quality.  (2) Supposedly easy to learn to burn.  (3)  I like the looks<grin>.  (3) Quality and durability are recognized as being high.  (4) Several finishes to pick from...for me it's either unpainted cast iron or the blue/black enamel.  (5) Seems to be the most popular stove of the three listed here...there must be a reason(?).
*Cons:*  (1) The biggest "con" is the small firebox which relates directly to shorter burn times, not much of a chance of getting an overnight burn (chances are slim to none).  (2) The ash drawer is a bit on the small side...ash build-up behind the drawer can cause problems shutting the drawer.  (3) Did I mention a small firebox?

Morso 2010
Centerline of rear flue exit:  23-1/4"
Theoretical top of flue:  26-1/4"
Maximum height remaining for hearth pad:  3/4"  (27" minus 26-1/4")
Required hearth R-value: 1.0
Width of Stove:  23-5/8"
Width of hearth:  53-1/2"
Clearance required to sidewall required:  22"
Clearance required with heatshield :  13-1/5" (Figured at conservative 60% of unshielded)
Total stove width plus 60% clearance with shields:  50-1/40" (fits by ~3-1/2")
*Mantel shield is required.
Log size:  18-1/2"
Firebox size:  1.093cf
Weight: 279 lbs
*Pros:* (1) Nice looking stove and recommended by several people.  (2) I haven't heard really any negatives about this stove.  (3) Probably a touch bigger firebox than the F3CB
*Cons:* (1) Small firebox.  (2) Not much discussion about this stove.

Lot's of information there (basically getting it together for my use) but also for any of you to look over and see if I've made any errors in figuring things....and, of course, if anybody else can use the information.  

Ed
Sitting here going slowly nuts one brain cell at a time...

P.S.  Not responsible for typographical or punctuational or hieroglyphical mistakes...my apologies to King Tut, how'd you get so funky, King Tut...         ...one cell at a...


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## Todd (Jul 20, 2010)

If you have access to those three stoves I'd go measure the actual usable fire box space. I think some manufactures fire box measurements may be off or include space above the baffles. Maybe even ask them if you could load some splits in them for a comparison.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 20, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> If you have access to those three stoves I'd go measure the actual usable fire box space. I think some manufactures fire box measurements may be off or include space above the baffles. Maybe even ask them if you could load some splits in them for a comparison.


I wish it was that easy...probably the closest stove store to me is going to be about 100 miles...one reason I'm trying to do so much homework online.     The store that I've spoken with some and really like is about 195 miles from me...they carry both the F3CB and the Yosemite.  The guy there seemed to really enjoy talking stoves with me, seemed like an older guy.  Me and my wife are supposed to be traveling basically through his town in a few weeks and I'm hoping we can drop in on him.   Interesting, but he said he's never really kept the blue/black enamel F3CB in stock much, pretty much all the other colors, though.  Anyhow...

Ed


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## BrotherBart (Jul 20, 2010)

You are the perfect candidate for buying online. Nobody is going to provide anything for you anywhere near "locally".


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## Todd (Jul 20, 2010)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> Todd said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't impressed with the Yosemite when I looked at it. The side loading door is tiny and imo useless. The fire box looks smaller than advertised, maybe someone could measure. 

The Morso is pretty cool looking but a 1.1 cu ft fire box? Too small for me, it would be tough to just build a fire in there. I think it's more of a one room heater. Also don't know if I like the air controls, is there one on each door? Kind a looks like the old spin knob type on old air tights, could be a pain to get use to?

Jotul has a good rep and I think it would be a safe bet. They have been building stoves for a long long time.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 20, 2010)

The F3 may be loved by all but that little sucker is just too small of a firebox to heat a house. Does fine in my basement office but that is because I am there to keep feeding it.

Go big or go home. 

Roll Tide.


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## Dix (Jul 20, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> The F3 may be loved by all but that little sucker is just too small of a firebox to heat a house. Does fine in my basement office but that is because I am there to keep feeding it.
> 
> Go big or go home.
> 
> Roll Tide.



Classic , but true.


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## begreen (Jul 20, 2010)

Don't forget this is southern AL and the fellow already has a geothermal heat pump. 

Intheswamp, what is your worst case heating bill for a month?


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## BrotherBart (Jul 20, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Just don't forget this is southern AL.



Cold is cold. Just for shorter periods in some places. I heated with wood in a house halfway between Fort Worth and Dallas. In the only month in history, before this year, where it never got over 32 degrees.  If I was going to try to heat a house with the .93 cubic foot firebox in an F3 in any winter weather I would just buy a kerosene heater. Well maybe not. I have two stored in the garage.

And the coldest week I ever lived through was in basic training in South Louisiana. Of course some of that was because I had to low crawl in the snow.  ;-P


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## Intheswamp (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok, getting back to the beginning. 

I'm looking for something to compliment my geothermal system, it doesn't have to replace it completely.  We are located south of Montgomery, Alabama where we get the oily gulf breezes blowing in and when it snows an inch...maybe two, it shuts the area down and they bring out the dump trucks loaded with sand (certainly they don't have any salt!), schools let out, and the national guard armories are on stand by.   This past winter, though, was the worst we've had in a while and had a lengthy spell of sub-freezing temps and several inches of snow (yelp it shut things down).  If I can heat a couple of rooms during sho'nuff cold times I'll be pretty happy.  I know you can just build a small fire in a large stove but 'm just afraid that a large heater might be a little overwhelming in our living room.  Plus, the clearance and venting issues will be much greater.  But, if I was to go larger it would probably be the Jotul Castine.  

Also, I'm looking at it as an emergency backup shut we be without power during a cold spell...just this morning I had the Alabama Department of Transportation, Alabama Power/REA, and Centurylink phone all scurrying around my house....lots of cutting bushes, limbs back from power lines, burying a telephone cable, etc.,.  It was kinda weird seeing all these different utility companies/agencies around my place (I live rural).  Ya'll don't reckon' they got a six sense like those elephants and other animals that headed for high ground when that tsunami hit Indonesia, do you?   :gulp: 


Montgomery, AL         Jan.      April      July       Oct.
Average Temps             46.6      64.3      81.8      65.4


                    Avg Hi   Avg Low   Avg Year         Record Hi        Record Low
Birmingham     73.4          50.9         62.2             107/1930            -6/1985     
Huntsville             71.1          50.1         60.6             104/1966           -11/1966     
Mobile             77.4          56.2         66.8             104/1952        3/1985     
Montgomery     77.0          53.1         65.0             105/1952              0/1985     

Cooling is a much bigger chore down here...now if they made a wood-burning air conditioner that'd cool us down THEN we could make some serious money!<grin>  Evaporative/swamp coolers don't even work good down here because of the humidity.

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 20, 2010)

The Castine would be nice, but it's too tall. There are about 4 choice to rear-vent here. If you want to go largish, get a Woodstock. In the medium range it looks like Yosemite fits well. On the smaller side it looks like the 3CB or the 2110. The smaller heaters will work fine. You will just be feeding it more often when it gets cold enough to fog your glasses. Seeing that is maybe about 5 days a year, I would focus on covering the other 60 days of winter in south AL.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 20, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The Castine would be nice, but it's too tall. There are about 4 choice to rear-vent here. If you want to go largish, get a Woodstock. In the medium range it looks like Yosemite fits well. On the smaller side it looks like the 3CB or the 2110. The smaller heaters will work fine. You will just be feeding it more often when it gets cold enough to fog your glasses. Seeing that is maybe about 5 days a year, I would focus on covering the other 60 days of winter in south AL.


Your right, BG...the Castine wouldn't do the limbo that's required.  Basically what I'm seeing is five stoves that could work...

Medium size:
Yosemite
Hearthstone Homestead
Woodstock Keystone

Small:
F3CB
Morso 2110

The Yosemite is "iffy" with some of the issues noted.  The Morso, I just don't get that many reviews on though sounds like a solid stove.  The Homestead and Keystone....I dunno, just something about stone stoves.  Growing up down here a little west of "Green Fried Tomatoes"-land I just never really saw a stone stove...plenty of cast irons and a few steels.  Other than the small firebox, things just seem to lead to....

v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
http://www.prestontradingpost.com/F3_4s.jpg


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## Intheswamp (Jul 24, 2010)

http://www.mytractorforum.com/images/smilies/14_6_5.gif

The guy pushing the plunger is my realization that I may not have planned correctly...the guy blowing up is my current stove plans...this happened just a few minutes ago when a dim (witted) light went on in the caverns of my skull....

I had pretty much decided on the F3CB and had been researching building a R=1.1 hearth pad, had actually gotten some quotes on stoves, and was going to look at some stoves Monday or Tuesday on the way back from north Georgia.  

I figured I'd go ahead and build a hearth that would cover the existing white ceramic tile hearth and would (hopefully) look nice when I got through.  I was going to build it "portable", in other words *not* screwed down to the wood floor but rely upon the weight to hold things in place.  My hearth layers were pretty much basic....







This morning that little dim-wit light came on in my head and warning buzzers started sounding.  That 27" lintel has struck again.

22-9/16" center of rear flue (plus) 3" to top of rear flue (equals) 25-9/16"
27" lintel height (minus) 25-9/16" top of rear flue (equals) 1-7/16" clearance above flue
2-3/4" proposed hearth thickness is not going to fit in 1-7/16"......<duh, I'm ah genius!>

If I cut the plywood back to 1/2" and do away with the thinset other than between the durock and the tiles that will bring the height down to only about 2"....still 9/16" too tall.






The Morso 2110 requires a R=1.0 floor protection so going that route isn't an option, being as that's about where I'm at with the F3CB.

I checked the Quad Yosemite since it is so much shorter than the two stoves above and would have more clearance above it.  The email I got from Quadrafire is that the Yosemite requires R-2.2 floor protection.  This would involve using two 1/2" pieces of micor but the Yosemite is so short that it would still and would let the stove flue fit under the lintel...actually the whole stove could still fit in the fireplaces firebox...I'm just not real gung-ho about the Yosemite...





I guess some options are:

1. See if I can get a short leg kit (but what does this do to the r-value requirement of the floor?)
2. Go with an Quad Yosemite.
3. Go with an insert.
4. Bust a hole in the fireplace and go into the chimney above the damper.  (Which would involve a lot of things...)
5. Build a fire outside in a metal drum, wear a dirty trench coat and fingerless gloves...

And I thought I had it figured it out...   :-S 
<sigh>
Ed


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## begreen (Jul 24, 2010)

Yep, you are getting the picture correctly, though the troweled thinset will be more like +1/8". 

I'd be looking at the Woodstock, especially in your climate. It has an easier hearth requirement. With their requirements you could just remove a section of flooring in front of the existing hearth, then lay down some cement board and tile to extend it. 

An insert would work too.


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## tutu_sue (Jul 24, 2010)

Well you don't need 3 layers of thinset for sure.  Maybe you can use 1 1/4" cement board screws and eliminate the plywood? I just read in the F3 manual that the short legs reduce the height by 2 1/4 inches and there's nothing I could find about the r-value changing.


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## Todd (Jul 24, 2010)

What about moving the lintel up? Maybe remove a layer or two of bricks to make that opening taller?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not sure really what to do right now....I'll revisit the Woodstock and take another look at it.  It's just that down here in south Alabama I was around cast iron stoves a bit as a kid....not much stone around here, most folks seem to work with brick and cast iron.  I guess I'm just accustomed to cast iron and not sure of the stone stoves.  If I don't get a good answer on the short leg kit I'll definitely have to be looking at something else or another approach.

I'm going to be away from the computer for a few days so I'll have some time to think about it.  Ya'll do some thinking, too. 

Take care and thanks for the feedback,
Ed


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## tutu_sue (Jul 28, 2010)

Email Lehman's at stoveparts@lehmans.com about the short leg kit.  Tell them there is nothing in the manual about the R-value with short legs, but you need to be sure. They will ask Jotul directly and get back to you.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 28, 2010)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> Email Lehman's at stoveparts@lehmans.com about the short leg kit.  Tell them there is nothing in the manual about the R-value with short legs, but you need to be sure. They will ask Jotul directly and get back to you.


Thanks for the suggestion...just sent an inquiry off to them.

So far here is my train of thought:  If I'm taking away 2.25 of air space then that is removing the equivalent of R=3.2175.  With that mentality (lots of people think I'm a mental case, anyhoo...) then I will need the prescribed R=1.1 value PLUS the R=3.2175 value that was taken away by removing the 2.25" of air space.  This is kind of like the Chinese do...reverse engineer it.

The original configuration: 

F3CB    Requirements    
Tall Legs                         Inches         R-Value
Required                            ?           1.10
Air Space (ventilated)     1.00           1.43
Air Space (ventilated)     1.00           1.43
Air Space (ventilated)     0.25           0.36

                    Totals        2.25           4.32

These are the clearances that I came up with between the top of the rear exit flue and the lintel:

                        Height         Height
F3CB                Tall Legs    Short Legs
Lintel                 27.00         27.00
Top of Flue        -25.56        -23.31

Flue Clearance/
Hearth Thickness   1.44"       3.69"

And this is what I think it would take to get to the required R=4.32 which would leave roughly .6" clearance between lintel and pipe...might be enough for double-wall pipe?:

                                           Inches        R-Value
Ceramic Tile                         0.25           0.01
Cement/Thinset                    0.25           0.05
Durock Cement Board         0.50           0.26
Ceramic Board (Micore)     0.50           1.10
Ceramic Board (Micore)     0.50           1.10
Ceramic Board (Micore)     0.50           1.10
Ceramic Board (Micore)     0.50           1.10

                                       3.00"      R= 4.72

Maybe that wasn't too confusing, but I think that would work.  Is having 2 inches of micor too much in regards to structural integrity (will it mash/sag)?

Ah, well I see the formating didn't work out very well...
Again...clear as mud,
Ed

....one cell at a time.


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## begreen (Jul 28, 2010)

This is making my head hurt. The hearth needs to be R=1.1 for the F3CB. What is all this air space (ventilated) info about? Where did the R 4.32 requirement come from???


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## Intheswamp (Jul 29, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> This is making my head hurt. The hearth needs to be R=1.1 for the F3CB. What is all this air space (ventilated) info about? Where did the R 4.32 requirement come from???


You didn't think I wanted to have all the fun by myself, did you???<g>

This is a train of thought (probably about to derail) that I got going because there was no information in any Jotul owner's manual that I looked at about the short leg kit in regards to altering the R-Value requirement when the kits are used.  Thus...

The short leg kit lowers the stove by 2.25".

Each inch of ventilated air space is equivalent to R1.43

2.25 x 1.43 = 3.2175 

An R-value of 3.2175 of floor protection was thus lost when the stove is lowered by 2.25 inches.

The stove already required an R-value of 1.1.

R3.2175 (lost air space) + R1.1 (original tall leg r-value required)  = R4.3175 

R4.3175 equals the sum of the r-value of lost ventilated air space plus the original required r-value.

I was just trying to determine the required r-value for the F3CB with the short leg kit...seems there's no information out there regarding short leg kits and getting information from Jotul is almost impossible.  I did email Lehmans as tutu-sue suggested...guess I need to wait and see what they say.  I really wonder if there are a good many F3CB's (and other models) installed with short leg kits that don't have near the floor protection that they should have.  But, I'm an 800 pound gorilla in the room, what do I know? 

...one cell at a time (it's contagious).

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 29, 2010)

I received a response from Lehman's regarding my questions of using the short leg kit with the F3CB and whether it would impact floor protection requirements.   Here is a direct quote....

"We talked with our rep at Jotul and this stove does not need higher r-value floor protection with the short-leg kit."

Just seems odd to move a heat source that much closer and for it not to affect r-values.

Ah well, the fog thickens....

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Jul 29, 2010)

...and then I'm reading in the wiki here https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Hearth_Design/ :

_Once again, this number represents a MINIMUM value, a higher value will do no harm. Note that once built, it is for all intents and purposes, not possible to increase the R-value of a hearth without completely dismantling it and rebuilding it from scratch. Therefore, it is a wise decision to “over-build” the hearth to meet the requirements of any stove that might be installed on it in the future. If doing this, an R-2.5 hearth will exceed the requirements of almost any stove this author is aware of. (*Except stoves using short leg kits which can cause unusually high requirements*)_

...and the fog thickens more.
Ed


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## Todd (Jul 29, 2010)

I would go with what Lehman says. Jotul probably tested the stove with the short legs and just kept the same R value for the tall legs without having to retest.


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## tutu_sue (Jul 29, 2010)

There is nothing to doubt.  It's perfectly clear by Jotul's response that the stove was tested with short legs, passed and was UL listed with R=1.1.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 30, 2010)

With its standard bottom heat shield it just does not get all that hot under the lil sucker.


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## fossil (Jul 30, 2010)

No way that a properly troweled layer of thinset's gonna account for 1/4" of thickness...more like 1/16" or so.  Apply with an appropriately notched trowel, and tap the overlay material in with a rubber mallet.  Remove what squishes out the sides with a putty knife & damp sponge.  It's just supposed to be an adhesive, nothing more.  Rick


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## Intheswamp (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks everybody for the feedback on the short leg kit r-value confusion.  I hadn't thought that they might have tested the F3CB with the short legs installed.  That makes good sense to me that a company that produces something of quality such as the Jotul stoves would test for the extremes.  Ok, I'll take my tin-foil hat off now.

fossil, I took a random stab at the thickness of the thinset.  Being as it didn't contribute much to the r-value I wanted to be sure I had enough thickness in there for clearance purposes.  What you mentioned helps me to understand more the process, though.  I was truly thinking more along the lines of laying the tiles down in a bed of thinset rather than using the thinset for just adhesion...hmmm, 'reckon that's why they named it "*thin*set"?  :cheese:   I've got to get to studying up on setting tile...

Of course, all of this foggy thinking of mine got me chasing stove manuals again....more questions to come. 

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 30, 2010)

Ya know if this goes on much longer, the stove is going to cost $200 more since this thread started. Fall and winter pricing is just around the corner.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 30, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Ya know if this goes on much longer, the stove is going to cost $200 more since this thread started. Fall and winter pricing is just around the corner.


Wow, I just said basically the same thing to my wife earlier tonight!

I messed up and looked at the Castine manual again tonight.  It still says 29-1/2" clearance and can be lowered 2-1/4" with the short leg kit...still too tall.  Then I was looking at the Jotul brochure that I picked up at a stove dealer the other day (yelp, finally made it to a stove store!).  The brochure states that for the Castine that the top of the flue when using the short legs is 25-3/4"....huh?  I think a couple of brain cells got through the gate at the same time when I read that!  With the 25-3/4" height that would leave me 1-1/4" of clearance.  My lintel is 4 inches thick/deep and I'm not sure what type (thickness) of fitting has to go on the stove's smoke outlet to connect the stove pipe.  In the brochure it looks like it would fit...in the manual it definitely looks like it won't.  The way I read it it only calls for ember protection as long as the bottom heat shield if used.  

I emailed the guy at the stove store to see if he would measure it and let me know the actual top of flue height.

In regards to a stove pipe for connecting to the flue....how thick are these pipes?  Seems that they are thin-walled as best I can tell.  How about double-wall?

Thanks as usual....and yes, I gotta make a decision SOON!

Ed
...ordered some more brain cells but they're on back-order...rationing out those few that are left.


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## tutu_sue (Jul 30, 2010)

In the Castine manual page 14,  25 3/4" is the width of the stove not the height to the top of the flue exit.  The manual shows the top of the flue exit is 29 1/2".  That stove requires 6" stove pipe. Double wall pipe will add another inch to the flue exit.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 30, 2010)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> In the Castine manual page 14,  25 3/4" is the width of the stove not the height to the top of the flue exit.  The manual shows the top of the flue exit is 29 1/2".  That stove requires 6" stove pipe. Double wall pipe will add another inch to the flue exit.


I agree with the width being reported in the manual as 25-3/4"...it also states the same dimension in the sales brochure.

What I'm seeing in the manual is that it shows the top of the "top exit" is at 29-1/2" but that the apparently marked center of the "rear exit" is at 25-1/2".  Add 3" to that for the radius of the flue and it's sitting at 28-1/2"...and inch shorter than the top exit.  If the short leg kit is used that lowers everything 2-1/4", resulting in the top of the rear exit flue being at 26-1/4"...which is still confusing and is not what is stated in the sales brochure (25-3/4").  

I believe it's irrelevant, though.  The wife is interested in a slightly raised hearth and there will not be enough room for much more than an ember pad under the Castine...even if it would fit under my 27" lintel.

Ed
...and the brain cells go, marching 2-by-2, as Ed wrings his hands wondering what to do...


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## Intheswamp (Jul 30, 2010)

I'm figuring the Castine will not fit under lintel...just seems from the mixed up info that it won't and if it will it might be too close for a comfortable install (lintel/pipe proximity).  Thus, I guess I need to concentrate on the two wood burners below.  I like the looks of the cast iron stove much better, but the the plate steel is more utilitarian/functional.   ARGHHHHH!












Sorry for the rough cut and paste and everything may not be sized exactly, but maybe this will give ya'll an idea of what we're looking at.  The hearth will be raised a couple of inches for either one and covered in some type of natural stone/tile look.  

The insert image is a Lopi Revere, but we are actually looking at the Republic 1750i, instead...just seem to like it better...the flat lipped ashlip actually seems sturdier than the Revere with the rolled edge trim.  One thing about the 1750i that I don't care for is the "gray" color....will it cure out and get darker?...lighter?  Is there a problem with painting it stove black?

The F3CB is apparently a bad picture of a matte black stove...if we go with the F3 we will be getting the blue/black enamel.  With the short leg kit it should have no problem fitting under the lintel.   We will put sheet metal panels just inside the fireplace's firebox if we get the F3.  For looks I take this one hands down....but I'm afraid I will regret the smaller firebox size...but then again, we're in south Alabama.

Agonizing Ed
...now where'd those brain cells go...hope that back-order gets here soon!


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## firefighterjake (Jul 30, 2010)

I like the looks of the F3 . . . but then again I'm a big fan of Jotuls. 

Perhaps more important though than looks is whether a stove is large enough to do the job . . . which is namely heating the house. 

Will you be keeping the large chocolate puppy on the hearth . . . if so I'm afraid it may melt.


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## Todd (Jul 30, 2010)

IMHO the Jotul looks better sitting there. I'm not a big fan of the insert surrounds. Also, it's not really that hard to move the lintel up a couple course's of brick if you want the Castine or Oslo.


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## ddddddden (Jul 30, 2010)

+1 on the Jotul for looks. Are there any clearance requirements for lintels? Just enough room for the flue pipe to have some rise as it runs into the fireplace?


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## Intheswamp (Jul 31, 2010)

firefighterjake, I agree hands-down that the Jotul takes the prize in the beauty contest.  It's the conflict between the aesthetic aspect of the Jotul and the "large enough" aspect of the Republic 1750i that is causing me so much indecision.  Either way, I don't think either will be a perfect choice.  I think the Castine would be better, but...it has to fit.

Todd, I'm not too crazy about the surrounds, either.  My wife, though, likes the idea because it blocks off the view of inside the fireplace's firebox which is a little moisture stained or whatever (nothing bad).  I've explained that we can recess a piece of sheet metal into the fireplace (one red brick deep) and that would effectually block off the firebox without covering over the brick fireplace face.  She's ok with that.    As for raising the lintel...that's a scary thought for me, I guess that's a "call the brick mason" project...???  That would let the Castine slip under there.

Den, I've wondered the same thing about required lintel clearances and in all the manuals that I've looked in I haven't seen anything mentioned about it.  I'm thinking that it's a 1/4" per foot of rise for a horizontal stove pipe that is required...I just looked in the F3 manual but don't see it noted there...I'll have to look elsewhere to be sure of that rise.

Ed


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2010)

You've wanted the Castine all along, so go for it. It will look great in there. Call a brick mason and have the lintel raised. Get the stove with the bottom heat shield and the hearth won't need modification. Just be sure the rear exit pipe has a generous upward pitch and that there is adequate flue draft for the stove. Otherwise it will spill smoke when trying to fire it up when it's 50 degrees outside.


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## Intheswamp (Jul 31, 2010)

Here is a rough floor plan of the house.  The areas in blue are areas that I'm primarily interested in heating and these areas equal roughly 960 square feet.  Total square footage of the house is 1840 sq ft.  The ceilings are 9'.  Anything heated beyond the blue area would be "gravy".   

I realize that the master bedroom is problematical being as it has a standard doorway and no large opening going into it.  I've thought that positioning a fan in the blue area doorway of the master bedroom blowing into the living room might actually create a good movement of air coming back around through the hallway behind the living room.    

Being as the Jotul F3CB is stated to heat "up to 1300 square feet" should I be safe to believe that it would heat the blue area (provided I can get the heat moved into the bedroom)?   The house has significant ceiling insulation, uninsulated heavy mortarboard framed brick walls, and *many* really large single pane, leaky windows (some of the avg small windows are 4'x5').  

Any final thoughts on all of this...I'm hoping to make a decision this Monday and place an order!

Ed
...I know I put some brain cells somewhere around here....just can't seem to find'em.


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## begreen (Jul 31, 2010)

The crux of the problem appears to be size: "It’s the conflict between the aesthetic aspect of the Jotul and the “large enough” aspect of the Republic 1750i that is causing me so much indecision." 

The F3CB will do the job, it just is going to need to be fed every 3-4 hrs when it is below zero outside. It seems like you have all the info necessary for a decision. Personally, I'd get the F400. With no hearth modification, it will take less work to install and will heat all 1840 sq ft with one fan assisting the air circulation. If you go for something else, you will still be pining for a nice blue-black F400 on the hearth. Might as well just go for it and be happy. If it were me, I'd get offline and call a couple masons today. Get some opinions and quotes for raising the lintel.


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## Intheswamp (Aug 1, 2010)

BG, you are probably correct in saying the Castine would basically be the right choice for me.  I'm still a little confused with the clearances of it, but crawled into the fireplace's firebox to look and see what the lintel looked like from the inside.  What I found has let some of the air out of my sails somewhat...I'm not sure what I've got, whether I should vent a stove through this fireplace, or if I'm worrying over nothing.   

In the pictures below, the duct tape is holding a piece of styrofoam in the throat of the fireplace (pretty good tape and styrofoam...been there for 18 years).   A couple of bricks above the lintel there is a piece of 2x wood running parallel with the lintel.  I'm not sure if this is a permanent piece of the structure or if it was a temporary brace of some kind to be "burned out" later on after the fireplace's construction was completed.  

The two old propane floor furnace's flues (non-working/disconnected now) vented into the backside of the chimney/fireplace from inside the crawlspace beneath the floor.   I was figuring on bricking off those vent entries into the fireplace.  

With the wood member inside the firebox and the venting of the furnances into the back/bottom of the fireplace does this mean this fireplace is basically just a "show" fireplace or something?...the only thing ever inside of the firebox that I recall was a very old fake fire with with small logs nailed together and a red colored light bulb in it.  My grandparents built the house back around 1950 and I was born in 1957...the fake fire has been in the firebox since I can remember, I've never known of a fire being burned in this fireplace.

Here's the photos....

Here's when I first looked behind the lintel...duct tape and styrofoam board showing...





Here is after I tore off the lower strip of duct tape revealing the 2x piece of wood with duct tape residue sticking to it and the angle iron...





And one more shot for a better look at the wood...





Thoughts anybody?   I'm all ears....

Ed


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## begreen (Aug 1, 2010)

Looks like bringing in a mason and a certified chimney sweep for an opinion is a better idea than ever. What ever you do, it will hopefully be an improvement.

Seriously, you need some professional eyeballs looking at this system. It sounds like a lot of safety violations here. There's no way we can assess this over the web or tell you with confidence that the system is ok to burn in. In the least, prepare for a full, insulated liner right down to the stove.


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## ddddddden (Aug 1, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> . . .Just be sure the rear exit pipe has a *generous upward pitch* and that there is adequate flue draft for the stove. Otherwise it will spill smoke when trying to fire it up when it's 50 degrees outside.


What would be the best way to maintain some flue pitch in a lintel-hugging installation? 45-deg appliance adapter instead of a tee?


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## Intheswamp (Aug 1, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Looks like bringing in a mason and a certified chimney sweep for an opinion is a better idea than ever. What ever you do, it will hopefully be an improvement.
> 
> Seriously, you need some professional eyeballs looking at this system. It sounds like a lot of safety violations here. There's no way we can assess this over the web or tell you with confidence that the system is ok to burn in. In the least, prepare for a full, insulated liner right down to the stove.


Early in my hunt for a stove I had a store quote me $299 for a "Level II" inspection.  Add that to whatever the mason would charge to correct the problem(s) and I'm starting to trash my limited stove budget.

I was already figuring on an insulated liner, due to the safety factor and to the recommendation to insulate if you're not having the chimney inpsected.  Being so picky over the heat shields for the cabinets, worrying about the R-factors for the hearth...all this was focusing on safety.  I guess if I was that worried about safety I should've sprung for an inspection to start with, eh?   I'm getting leery now, though....kinda had cold water thrown on me, I guess you could say.  
	

		
			
		

		
	







I'll think it over for a day or two and decide what to do or not to do.  Thanks for the help and recommendations.

Best wishes,
Ed


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## begreen (Aug 1, 2010)

It shouldn't cost any more for getting mason out for an opinion than it costs for getting one here. The flue needs to be swept regardless. After he's done, ask what he thinks. If you put in the Castine, it looks like you can just squeak by without side shields and the existing hearth will work as is. So call up a mason or two for a quote to raise the lintel and stop beating your head against the wall.


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## Todd (Aug 1, 2010)

Looks like someone built a 2x4 form and duct taped styro foam insulation in there to keep the cold down drafts at bay. I'd cut the insulation out and see if that's the case, it will also give you a view of what else is up there.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 1, 2010)

Yeah yank that junk out of there and get a look. No way I am believing they bricked that whole wall and stuck a piece of wood in the middle of the job. Somebody just wanted to stop the air leak up the chimney at some point.


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## Intheswamp (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement ya'll.  When I saw that wood it just kinda blew me away.

BG, I'll see about getting a mason out and see if he can tell anything about the piece of wood.  I guess either a chimney sweep or a competent mason should be able to tell me whether it's a "go or "no-go", shouldn't they?

Todd, BB...yelp the wood was built into that chimney.  The styrofoam and duct tape was stuck in there roughly 18 years ago by yours truly back when all we had was one working floor furnace and a 1' wide space heater in the bathroom (*old*, open-flame style)...before the geothermal system.  That piece of wood was put their when the chimney mortar was wet.

I've put off tearing out the styrofoam so far but might as well rip it on out and see if the damper area is made of papermache' or something.<sigh>

We'll hopefully get an answer this week from somebody.

Thanks, as usual, for the feedback.

Ed
...whose brain cells are resembling lemmings and are suddenly scurrying towards the cliff.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 2, 2010)

Even though I still don't think that wood is in the mortar joint in those bricks it just hit me that the fascia bricks are exposed to the firebox above that lintel, not firebrick. That was a definite screwup.


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## Intheswamp (Aug 2, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Yeah yank that junk out of there and get a look. No way I am believing they bricked that whole wall and stuck a piece of wood in the middle of the job. Somebody just wanted to stop the air leak up the chimney at some point.


BB, it's hard for me to believe they did all that brickwork and put wood in it.  

I just measured the thickness of the wall/island that the fireplace is on (that island of closets and fireplace between the living room and the interior hallway).  That "island" is 32" thick.  Measuring from the bottom rear of the firebox it is 17" to the fireplace/wall face which leaves 15" of space behind the firebox to the surface of the hallway wall.  To either side of the firebox is roughly 17" of brick.  The face of the fireplace is 5' 7"  wide, the full chimney extends into the attic space and is head high to where it starts narrowing into the chimney that we see above the roofline.

The chimneytop opening has bricks going across the opening.   It's been several years since I was at the top of the chimney (roof flashing work) but as I recall the cross-ways bricks were something like this....apparently to keep birds, coons, whatever out?  




The bricks across the opening seems strange though, because you could never sweep the chimney out with it blocked like this (I was figuring on cutting these out).

It is a *substantial* structure...there has to be *several* tons of bricks involved, but....   The wood above the lintel, the propane floor furnaces venting into the chimney, and the top of the chimney having bricks inserted cross-ways of the flue...these things make me wonder.  

Like I said earlier, hopefully we'll find something out this week.
Ed


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## Intheswamp (Aug 2, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Even though I still don't think that wood is in the mortar joint in those bricks it just hit me that the fascia bricks are exposed to the firebox above that lintel, not firebrick. That was a definite screwup.



I hadn't thought about the lintel bricks needing to be firebricks.  The only fireplace I'm familiar with is the rumford we built at the "work in progress" cabin in the swamp.  Some intake air comes around the lower point of the lintel and then curves around the rounded breast.  That lower part and a portion of the breast facing the fire stays relatively cool from the sheet of inrushing air.  I know this squared-off lintel won't function like that but thought I'd mention it.

Good point and observation, BB.

Ed


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## pyper (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Ed,

I live in South Carolina. It's a bit colder for a bit longer, but not too different from where you live. We put in a free standing stove last winter and we love it. We use it for a lot of heat, especially on the weekends, but we still have the heat pump.

Anyway, as I've read through -- er, make that "skimmed" -- this thread, two things came to my mind.

1) first, heat probably wont' circulate very well in your house unless you help it with some fans. You could put a big box fan in the bedroom door to blow into that room "north" of the living room and it would move air in a circle around the house. If you do that, then you'll need a fairly decent heat source. If your wife doesn't tolerate a box fan in the doorway blowing all the time, then you don't need as big a heat source, because heat will build up in your living-room. Since it doesn't get that cold, it's easy to heat one room with a small fire. I'm sure a free standing stove puts out a lot more heat than an insert, but last winter my wife was sick and she kept wanting it warmer, and before too long the living room was 90F. The back of the house was still 60.

2) for the prices you're getting quoted for a stove, you could probably put in new windows (or at least some of the biggest) , which would make your house a lot more comfortable and greatly reduce the amount your heat pump runs. New windows made a huge difference in our house, especially when the wind is blowing. They help in the summer too, and as you know, our AC season is longer than our heat season.

Best wishes with whatever you do!


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## Intheswamp (Oct 18, 2010)

I guess I'm kinda like a bad penny...I just keep turning up. 

Well, after....2 1/2 months the brick mason shows up.  Looking at it he thinks that it will be fine for a direct-connect stove installation.  Gotta cut that 2x4 out of there, but other than that he said things look ok....

Now, good ol' nutty Ed here can't leave well enough along, so...here comes some pictures and remarks....

Here is a shot of the chimney foundation under the house.  This is the east and north(back) sides of the chimney.  You can see where the exhaust from the old floor furnace entered into the the base of the chimney.  On the opposite (west) side of the foundation another exhaust from a different floor furnace enters the foundation at approximately the same location.  I'm thinking of tearing this pipe out and fill with  brick and mortar.





The next two shots are of the lintels.  There are two lintels.  It looks like the 2x4 piece of wood was probably used to help support/position the upper most lintel.  The 2x4 should be able to come out with not problem.









Remember the floor furnace exhaust pipes under the house...  In the next two photos you can see two bright red spots on either side of the flue, these are apparent openings, but to what?  We couldn't figure out what it was, but after the mason left a little light went on in my head.  Apparently there is a chase running up the sidewalls of the chimney and these openings were where the exhaust entered the chimney flue.  I called the mason and mentioned it to him and he thinks it is a non-issue.  The very last shot shows that I will have to take out some firebrick on the back for enough room for the flex-pipe to pass through the throat.









So, I'm all ears...start chewing'em.
Ed


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2010)

So what is the plan, 2 liners? Will the remaining floor furnace get its own liner up to the top and the stove will get an insulated liner, yes?


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## Intheswamp (Oct 18, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> So what is the plan, 2 liners? Will the remaining floor furnace get its own liner up to the top and the stove will get an insulated liner, yes?


Nope, just one liner.  Both furnaces were disabled years ago.  One furnace is completely gone and the return for the geothermal system is in it's place, the other furnace is simply filling a hole in the floor.  

Is that sounding any better?

Ed


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2010)

Yup. One insulated liner coming up.


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## Intheswamp (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback, BG.  I've been figuring on an insulated liner from the beginning for performance and safety reasons.  

After having three outfits in the running for the F3CB I made a phone call to one of the three (not the cheapest, but the most helpful) and will get things moving shortly.  This seller sells Metal-Fab liners which from what I understand is of good quality.  

I will be going with the short-leg kit and the stove will be the blue/black enamel.  I'm figuring on a short section of double-wall pipe going to a "T" that can be used as a clean-out.  

It is a straight run from chimney top to the firebox, though (as I mentioned) some firebrick at the top of the firebox's back will need to be removed to allow the 6" pipe to come through.

The brick mason talked about building a run of bricks around the top of the chimney to attach the cap to.  As it is, the top of the chimney is cement sloped away from the chimney opening.

I've been away for a while and last I heard was that Du-Rock's composition had been changed and was no longer listed as being used as hearthboard material...any info on what a comparable product would be?

Looks like I need to start back scavenging some wood...which is another can of worms after having a little "episode" while cutting a *small* bit of live oak...a stress test, ekg, ultrasound, new blood pressure med, and a cholesterol med later I know little more than I did when it hit me...but I am going a little easier at things now.  


Thanks for all your help, looks like we might just have a cozy fire in the house this winter!!   
Ed
(with a few marbles left, but still one brick shy of a load)


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## Intheswamp (Dec 16, 2010)

It's been a while since I posted in this thread.  Being as this is the thread that got me rolling in the direction of acquiring a stove I think I will start back here for the "rest of the story".  I've posted some topic in a few other threads where I figured a specific title might help.  Here' s a few (but not all) of those threads for someone who might be interested. I ended up choosing the Jotul F3CB. 

Jotul F3CB: Height at top of horizontal rear exit flue???? - A little discussion about top of the horizontal oriented flue with some good tips for operating the F3CB from tutu_sue.

Jotul F3CB, installation and general use tips??? - A little talk about wood length/width, liner installation, Durock Nextgen, etc.,.

Certifiable nut in south Alabama went and put a deposit down on a stoveâ€¦ -  :lol: This one ended up being a thread where us southerners are convincing everybody else that it actually gets cold down here.

From here on I'll try to post in this thread about my F3CB adventure... 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Dec 16, 2010)

I guess it was only appropriate that the day that I make the 250 mile drive to pick the F3CB up that a "winter mix" is predicted and I end up with sleet and snow coming down on me. 

I made the trip and managed to get the stove inside the house.  It's sitting with the doors open letting the temperature settle out...so far I haven't noticed any condensation (a concern of mine earlier that some of the pros put to rest for me).  That was some COLD steel by time I got home with it!

But...I'm kinda feelin'....melancholy(?).   Vendors.

Seems the shop that sold me my stove was kinda "oh, your here to pick up a stove"...."here's an invoice"..."pull down to the dock and we'll get it loaded for you".  And that's the way the greeting went.  No conversation about the weather, the drive, nothing that would really make you think that I was a customer that just spent that kind of money with them.  Really strange.  I haven't ordered a thermometer, or gloves, or any thing else...there was no hint of them seeking to sell me anything else.  When the girl came out with the invoice I hadn't been there a full 60 seconds and there was no inquiry if I needed something else...shoot, I'd already figured I'd go ahead and buy another door gasket, maybe a full set of gaskets to have on hand.  Definitely needed a thermometer.  Will need a piece of stove pipe, figuring on double-wall because of that low lintel.   The guy had the stove boxed up with strapping on it...he said he had checked it out and all was good.  The center runner on pallet was laid to the side and one of the outer runners was swaying a bit.  For some reason I took him at his word, we loaded, and I left.  Down the road I got to thinking so I stopped and cut the straps off...everything looked fine to me so I came on home.   Just really a kinda of strange deal...they were nice enough I guess, but was Hannibal Lecter in the back room?

Ok, so moving on to the liner.  I'm still wondering about this one as I may have a problem.  I've got to talk with the vendor tomorrow, but for the time being I have a question.  If you were to receive an insulation blanket (just the blanket in the box) and it had "25x1/4 S" written on it and box with a sharpie what would you take that as meaning?  This is the first part of the liner/insulation kit to arrive.  I'm thinking that the vendor sent me a 1/4" blanket.   I don't feel good about this one...the vendor was short and hurried with me when I ordered it but the price was very good (...if it sounds too good to be true...).  This is a well-known vendor.  Unlike the stove vendor this person immediately started asking if I needed some high-temp silicone and I agreed that I did (ordered some) then he asked if I was going to be cleaning my own flue...he was doing a push sales on me (I had told him this was our first stove...did he see a sucker coming?) but I saw what he was doing and told him I'd handle that part later....he seemed a little miffed that I stopped him.  Anyhow, I'm wondering if I'm getting the liner and insulation kits that are shown on their website or not.  I'll see what he says about the insulation blanket tomorrow.

How would someone as green as me be able to tell if this is a 1/4" or 1/2" blanket?  I've gotta feeling this is just gonna cost me more $$$.  

So, I drove 500 miles today and got my F3CB and it's a purty little thing...so, why ain't I grinning like I should be?

Ed


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## Nic36 (Dec 16, 2010)

Hey Ed,

Glad to hear you got your F3CB. I know what you mean on the treatment. It seems to be more and more common these days, even in the land of southern hospitality. When you give someone a couple thousand dollars or more, you would think they would at least be a little more enthusiastic and talkative. Sign of the times I guess.

I can't answer your question about the blanket, but it definitely sounds like 1/4 inch instead of 1/2. (I don't know how much that matters) Is there an invoice or part # anywhere you can match up? It's a hassle I know, but you can have the vendor make it right and it shouldn't cost you anything if they are a reputable business. If they made a mistake, they should fix it. 

The experts here should help you answer your question though.


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## Intheswamp (Dec 16, 2010)

Yelp, made it back ok with the F3CB.   I guess you're correct to a degree about the treatment being a sign of the times.  I'm a small retailer and trust me, I'm appreciative when someone buy *anything*!     They weren't rude or anything, just not really an outshowing of gratitude.  Whatever the case, I got the stove home and all seems ok with it.

The jury is still out on the liner/insulation purchase.  I sent an email off last night inquiring about what  â€œ25x1/4 Sâ€ written on the box and insulation blanket meant.   On their website they clearly state that 1/2" insulation is to be used on wood burners and being as I have an unlined chimney I really want the heaviest insulation.  The whole purchase process made me a little uneasy...I should've went with my gut instincts.  I'll wait and see how they respond today.

In regards to the insulation blanket...  Is it common for the edges of the blanket to be fairly wrinkled up?  ...seems that would make it more difficult to seal with the tape....there was no padding in the box so it could have happened from the ends being banged around during shipment.  It sure didn't look like the liners in their ads with the clean, crisp edges.  It's probably not as bad as I make it out to be, I'll try to get a picture of it today at work.

In the mean time, here's a couple of shots of this cute little southern belle, er....stove.


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## Intheswamp (Dec 16, 2010)

Ok, just got off the phone with the liner/insulation vendor.  The first person I spoke with stated that the 1/4" blanket is what was ordered (not) and then quizzed me about the size of my flue (apparently figuring my flue was small and needed the clearance).  When I told her my flue was roughly 9.5"x10" and that it didn't have any tile but just bare brick she transferred me to the guy that actually took my order.  He actually sounded friendlier(?) than the other day (maybe he had had a bad day) but he was still cut and dry with his conversation.  He said that he would make it right and would send an entire new kit out to me.  If he comes through with what he said, I'll feel much better about the transaction.  It is one of the larger companies and has some good references here on hearth.com so I'm hoping it was just a hiccup with the transaction and no harm intended.

We'll see.

Thanks for listening to my rants and pity-partying.

Ed


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## Nic36 (Dec 17, 2010)

That's a pretty stove. Looks well made.

It's good they are making it right on the blanket, as they should. You never do know what you are going to get for customer service sometimes though. So, I understand your worries.


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## Intheswamp (Dec 17, 2010)

Good morning Nic.  I looked at lot stoves before deciding on the F3CB, we had some clearance limitations that limited us on choice but all in all I think we made a good choice.  I think it looks pretty good, too. 

The rest of the liner/insulation combo came in yesterday.  It really is amazing that it made it with all the parts to me.  The liner was inside of a BIG box which was good for protecting the liner, but everything else was loose inside the box...both inside and outside the coils.  The rest of the "insulation kit" was in the box along with the liner parts, but the tape and wrapping wire don't look like that represented on their website...the tape and wire are definitely off of bulk spools...kind of odd.  I've other thoughts, observations, but I'll hold off.  8-/ 

I had upgraded to a squared-off, hinged chimney cap but received the standard round one.  The upgrade wasn't charged on my invoice so I'll probably go with the round one and upgrade it later if I decide to...I've just gotta be sure my credit card isn't charged for the upgrade.   Also, the tee cap...should there be screws holding it onto the bottom of the tee?

It will all work out in due time, I've still got plenty of time as the mason still has some work to do and I've got to address the hearthpad and mantel/side heatshields.  Who knows...we might get to light a fire by the Fourth of July  :cheese: 

I'm waiting on the 1/2" blanket kit to arrive (supposed to receive a RMA for the 1/4" and associated parts) and then I'll give a (mostly)  "all clear" for the vendor.  Really, I think the vendor is good, I just think that my order has been a comedy(?) of errors so far, I feel confident it will get worked out.  Anyhow, here is what I've received so far.


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## Nic36 (Dec 17, 2010)

Ed, hopefully some others with liner experience can answer your questions. I know ZERO about liner installations since all I researched was double wall chimney installation.

Odd that the tape and wire is like that, but it may be common for all I know. As long as it is the amount you ordered, I guess that is OK. I can understand how that would be a bit of surprise. If the pictures on their site depicts it one way and it doesn't make a note somewhere, then by all means, you should receive it that way. I could overlook that though. 

The only advice I can give you is to go slow and not get in a hurry. Whenever I get in a hurry, I inevitably screw something up.


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## PJF1313 (Dec 17, 2010)

Ed,

  If you bought the supplies at a "discount" or a cheaper than average place, they may have bought their supplies in bulk, then taylor made/custom cut your order from their bulk supply.  The only thing I would worry about is the thickness of the the insulation that your received, is less than the the thickness that you ordered.

  I hope they make it right without a headache!


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## fishingpol (Dec 18, 2010)

Hi Ed,

As PJ said above, some items may be taken from bulk.  I was sent a roll of foil tape for my liner, and could have taped 3 liners.  I have more than half a roll left.  As far as the insulation being a little crumpled, you can flatten it out just fine as you go.  My only issue with my liner was they sent a 5" snout for a 6" flue collar.  I e-mailed them and it was shipped the next day.

When this project is complete, you'll sit back and realize the whole planning and work associated with it was worth it.  You will have also gained a wealth of knowledge.


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## Intheswamp (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks everybody for the replies.  Yes, the combo liner/insulation was discounted so that may be the "from bulk" rolls of wire and tape which is ok but it wasn't what I was given the impression of that I was buying.  Being as the chimney is in the center of the house and un-tiled I want to get it insulated and secured as well as possible...if using extra tape and wire helps that I'll see if I can buy some somewhere (wire's no problem, but the tape...???).

The 1/4" liner situation spooked me....if they had not written the thickness on it this newbie probably wouldn't have detected the goof  and would have happily slid the thinly insulated liner down into my un-tiled chimney...my grand-babies and my wife and I sleep just a few feet from that chimney.  Kind of scary.  Hopefully I'll get the replacement blanket next week and ship the 1/4" one back to them.

I think everything will turn out ok with getting the insulation issue taken care of, as I mentioned vendor sounded like he was concerned and in his words "I'll take care of it".

Nic, I hear you on not getting in a hurry.  I've still got several things to do yet before I can snake the liner down the chimney.  Getting all the materials together is one stage, then on to the mason work, heart pad, block-off plate, etc.,.  I want to do it right and I'm like you mentioned....when I get in a hurry there's gonna be a blow-down somewhere along the trail.

PJF1313, I hear ya!...I don't need anymore headaches than what I've already got.  :-S 

fishingpol, you're right, since I've been researching and reading (mostly here on the forum...ain't it great) I've learned a great deal about wood burning and stoves...lot's of things I had no ideas about but that makes good common sense.  And yes, I really believe that we will be thankful for the stove and the enjoyment and comfort that it will bring.

One aspect I've yet to cover is.........WOOD.   ...but, I'm working on it. 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Dec 22, 2010)

I wanted to let ya'll know that I received the 1/2" insulation blanket from the vendor yesterday.  The guy was definitely a man of his word on getting it out to me.  The difference between the two blankets is BIG.  I'll try to remember to carry my camera to work tomorrow and get a shot of the 1/2" stuff.  He also sent some more wire, tape, and mesh.  The roll of mesh looks much better than the previous one while the tape and wire are basically the same.  I'm happy with it.  Now I'm waiting on them to get me a RMA and call-tag so I can ship the 1/4" blanket and fixin's back to them.  Things are looking up. 

Also, got some split water oak delivered yesterday so I've got some wood in the yard now. 

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Mar 22, 2011)

Today is a great day  I finally have a mason here doing the chimney work.  He has taken off the top two runs of brick to widen out the mouth of the chimney and has gone for mortar, sand, and bricks.  He's going to top it with a 13"x13" flue tile.  I'll post some pictures later.  Finally getting some good progress going on getting the stove installed.  Been a trip so far 

Ed


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## begreen (Mar 22, 2011)

Good to hear there's finally some progress. Is the liner already in or was this holding up the works?


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 22, 2011)

Keep at it and you'll get it done Ed, but you probably won't be using it much until next winter. If you'd just move north a bit, you'd have that thing cooking right now! 4-8" snow forecast for tonight here.


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## Intheswamp (Mar 22, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Good to hear there's finally some progress. Is the liner already in or was this holding up the works?



Man what a day...  Figured while the mason worked and I had to keep the dogs inside that I'd slip out back and split some wood with the new splitter.  Happy about the mason....but my new splitter just died 10 minutes ago!<ARGGGGHHHHHH>  I posted in about it in the gear forum....

Ok Ed...breath in, exhale, breath in, exhale......

BG, the liner isn't in yet.  The chimney top was too small to get the liner down.  it was a 9+" x 10" flue going up *until* you get to the crown...then it was choked way down.  He's opening it up to roughly a 10"x10" opening with a 13"x13" flue tile mounted on the peek.  Basically he's taken out two runs of brick to where the old "flue" opened up wider...he has the tile in place and is replacing two runs of bricks now.  I'll be capping it with a hinged square chimney cap from chimney liner depot.  The guy doing it is the guy wanted to do it all along...the mason that didn't show was kind of a "I'll settle for him guy".  This guy will/is doing it right....good reputation.

Man, that splitter is a downer, though 


Ed


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## Intheswamp (Mar 22, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Keep at it and you'll get it done Ed, but you probably won't be using it much until next winter. If you'd just move north a bit, you'd have that thing cooking right now! 4-8" snow forecast for tonight here.


Dennis...I'm sitting sweating in a t-shirt.  After the splitter I'm cooking enough, I think.  For a splitter to have such a good reputation this Huskee has really been a bad experience for me so far. <sigh>  BUT.....I'm getting the chimney fixed 



Anyhow, the good ol' USofA is indeed a big place....85 down here, bees buzzing and sunshine....and snow predicted up your way.  Big difference indeed!!

Ed


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## Intheswamp (Mar 24, 2011)

Ok, here is what the chimney crown looks like now...

Original crown...
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n153/intheswamp00/Fireplace_20100626_5400Medium.jpg

Crown removed (2 courses of bricks under mortar)...






Finished product with tile installed.  There will be a hinged square top (13"x13") on top...


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