# Let the big cat eat! Buck 91 up and running. Advice, tricks and tips welcome...



## Woody Stover (Dec 6, 2012)

Everything on the install went pretty smoothly. Here's the link to that thread, if anyone is interested:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-buck-stops-here-91-bay-heater-install-under-way.92228/

One Saturday, I decided to take the stove over to my MIL's and see if I could recruit a few guys to help me move it from the trailer to the hearth. If not, I was going to leave it there on the trailer. I stopped on my way out and talked to my wife's cousin, who told me that three other beefy men cousins were in town for the day and would be passing by my MIL's house shortly.  Pretty easy getting the stove in with that many guys, and the door off and bricks and combustor/frame assembly out (Had taken the combustor out and given it the vinegar/water simmer and rinse.) maflake, neighbor of mine and fellow Buck 91 operator, got to save his back for another day. We've got some wet Red Oak to haul out at his place, so he'll need the healthiest back he can muster. 

I was going to put a Roxul block-off plate of sorts up where the smoke chamber narrowed down, but spaced out and forgot to do it before we slid the stove into the fireplace.  Maybe later I can do that...

I had to lift the liner with a floor jack and re-clamp it up out of the way to have the necessary clearance to get the stove in.







Begreen suggested in one thread to slide the stove in using a sheet metal skid plate, and that worked great. My nephew and I slid it in and then he guided the flue collar/liner as I lowered it from the top.

I still need to extend the hearth, and I'm a few inches short on mantle clearance. Heat moves out of the two doorways pretty well now but it remains to be seen if fans are needed when it gets colder...I think they will be.






Can't see it too well in this pic but the 36" wood hoop looks pretty good.






Stove temp 500; Cat probe 1500.






I started cautiously with a small fire, as other operators of this stove have said that the combustor temp can go over the 1800 max suggested in the manual to prolong the life of the cat, which is already four years old. That went well so I built a bigger fire the next time. I must have had too much small stuff or the coal bed was too much under the load, and the combustor got up to around 1750. The liner must have expanded as well because some creo chunks left over from the previous slammer install started falling on top of the stove and I had to keep brushing them off to prevent too much smoke in the stove room. Before the stove went in I had gotten as much of the loose stuff as I could with the liner in my way, but not all of it apparently. I think all the stuff that was going to fall is gone; On subsequent firings the amount of debris falling eventually tailed off to nothing. I installed the surround (which was a bit harder to do since the stove was already in place.) I have the gold spring handles and gold trim that goes around the front of the ash lip, which I've yet to install. I guess I've got to remove the ash lip to slip the trim on. I also want to get a corded hand-held vac to keep the area neat, and clean off the ash lip and door gasket, which seems to always get a little blow-back ash on it no matter how slowly I open the door.

Over the last few weeks, I've been burning one or two loads a day in the stove, depending on how cold it it outside. It takes a pretty lively fire for a while to get the combustor probe up to the 700-900 recommended in the manual before closing the bypass. I've got some soft Maple and Pine that I'm using to get it up to temp but not leave big chunks or a big coal bed. I then rake the coals forward and put in a full load. It's hard to learn the stove when I'm not there to observe the full burn cycle. I've had my MIL call me a few times to update me on how a load is doing and get me the stove and combustor temps. A few nights ago the combustor was at 1650 when I left and I had her call me an hour later. Combustor was a 1800.  I had already cut the air back pretty much, and I had her cut it all the way to get the load to slow down, and had her turn up the fan, which seems to help. I think I had the load burning for too long before cutting the air back, and too much of the load got involved. At this point, I'm wondering how I will be able to get a higher burn rate when it's cold out, yet not have the cat get too hot.

The stove was burning more on the left side than the right and the glass was a bit dirty in the lower right corner (as you can see in the above pic.) I thought I might have a blockage in the right primary air channel. I've got a mechanic's grabber tool, a flex cable housing with a claw on the end, that I ran up the right intake but it was clear. Then I thought "Hey, the ash drop is on the left side..." Sure enough, the gasket may had a little gap where the ends come together. Last night I put on a new gasket. When I lit the stove I saw immediate improvement. The load was actually burning on the _right_ side, something I hadn't seen before. I left the air open a little and had my MIL call me with a temp report a couple hours after I started the load; Had 350/1500. I stopped by this AM to see how the load was doing and was pleasantly surprised to find room temps a couple of degrees higher and more fuel than usual left in the stove. I think the ash pan gasket leak caused the load to burn up more quickly even if the primary air was cut all the way. So I guess the load is burning more slowly, even though I gave it some air last night, and the heat output is higher in the morning due to the extended burn. It'll be nice for her to wake up to a warmer house.  I'm hoping that getting more control over the air will also reduce the chances of the combustor going too high.

The ash pan doesn't lock into place, there's just a piece of spring steel exerting pressure on the side of the pan to hold it in place. I like the ash drop...pretty easy to use. I've found that I need to run a poker behind the hinge and clean off the top of the lid to get it to open easily. Ash pan holds several loads worth. The back of the pan has no wall, so it will plow through any ash or coals that have spilled in the cavity. This feature also makes it easy to just slide the ashes out of the end of the pan and into the bucket; Much less dust than when you have to dump the pan upside down to empty it.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 6, 2012)

Soooo, Buck 91 owners...

--What have you found to be the quickest way to get this big chunk of steel up to temp from a cold start?  Wide open primary and shotgun air, or certain ratios of each at different points in the warm-up burn? I've also tried cutting the air back as much as possible while still keeping the flames pretty big to keep more heat in the box, but the jury for me is still out on what is the quickest way. Once when I forgot to open the bypass, the cat probe got up to temp real fast just burning a couple of warm-up splits...but I really don't like running any unburned smoke through a cat... I've noticed too that after I close the bypass, the cat probe has to be up around 1000 before it really starts burning all the smoke. Maybe I'm giving it too much air at that point...

--How do you run this stove when you need a lot of heat? Air more open and flames in the box? Do you still get a clean burn, and does the cat get up around the dreaded 1800?

--Does the cat temp ever go to the moon on you? What do you do then? How do you prevent it from going too high in the first place?

--Ever load E/W? What did you find vs. N/S?

--Do you use different fan speeds? If so, what's your thinking on this?

--Does your glass stay pretty clean? My right side glass got dirty until I fixed the ash pan gasket. This AM, both sided were a little dirty but not like the right side was before. Is slightly dirty glass on a low burn something I'll just have to live with?

Any other knowledge about running this stove from seasoned operators would be most welcome.


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## mellow (Dec 6, 2012)

It is pretty close to my bay 52, just bigger. I have found doing a load of N/S on the bottom then loading E/W on top of that keeps the fire going better when I cut the air way down. The glass on my door darkens, the air wash on these stoves is not the greatest when you have it set to hardly any air coming in. I run my fan on low due to how loud it is while we are in the room, when I go to bed I put it on high for an overnight burn. Mine takes a little while to get the cat up to temp (15-20 minutes from cold start), I burn N/S to get it up to temp quicker, the bay 52 has a startup air slide below the door, that helps to get the fire going. If the cat on mine goes above 1700 I will put the fan on high even if we are in the room just to play it safe.   I haven't had to run mine hard yet so I can't answer that question.  But in theory with a full load and a little air it should have the cat pegged.


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## David Tackett (Dec 6, 2012)

I follow the manual instructions.  It tells you when to shut down the air and how far to shut it down and when to close the bypass.  I am just using this guide until I see if I can find a more efficient way.  I have only been above 1800 one time.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 6, 2012)

Looks like the big hoss is gettin it done.

If I ever for some reason replace the 30-NC it will be with a cat Buck. That eight inch liner was the problem with the big boy.


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## Todd 2 (Dec 6, 2012)

Good looking set up you got there Woody, Not much help here on tips, but that thing looks big enough to make them candles lean when you crank it up  Really like the big glass view and hearth background,  enjoy,    Todd 2


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## ddddddden (Dec 7, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> --How do you run this stove when you need a lot of heat? Air more open and flames in the box? Do you still get a clean burn, and does the cat get up around the dreaded 1800?
> 
> --Does the cat temp ever go to the moon on you? What do you do then? How do you prevent it from going too high in the first place?
> 
> At this point, I'm wondering how I will be able to get a higher burn rate when it's cold out, yet not have the cat get too hot.


 
I'm not a Buck 91 burner, but in case you've missed the threads, consensus on other cat stoves seems to be that the more flame you run in the firebox, the less smoke there is for the cat to eat. . .cat and stove top get cooler, all other sides of the stove get warmer; so more total heat output, but less heat from the cat when running the stove hard. Basically, you burn the smoke in the firebox(as flame), or you burn it in the cat. YMMV with the Buck, but I don't know why it would be radically different from other cats.




> It'll be nice for her to wake up to a warmer house.


You're a good SIL. Nice install, and good on ya for making this happen for her!


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## Woody Stover (Dec 7, 2012)

Yesterday my SIL was over there and added wood in the early afternoon. There was still a huge coal bed in the stove so I could only add one layer of splits. I wasn't as worried about the big coal bed, since I had stemmed the air leak at the ash pan gasket. I returned an hour later and the cat was a little over 1600. I really didn't want to see it go much higher than that. There are two inlets for air wash primary air, and the right-side air slider is a long bar with two plates attached that cover the air inlets as the slider is moved. I saw that with the air all the way closed, the plated didn't fit tightly against the openings, allowing some air to still enter the stove. I grabbed a little wood chip and stuck it between the end of the slider and the ash lip, which pushed the plates up tighter against the openings. I turned the blower on 'high' and the cat temp seemed to level off so I called it a day. When I came back this AM there was still a fairly large coal bed left. That load had burned considerably slower than I was used to. What I may do is to put a couple of washers between the slider bar and the plates, which would allow me to cut back the air more, if need be.
There is still some air coming in at the ash drop lid; Appears to be at the hinge area which would make sense as the lid probably fits the rest of the opening fairly tightly. I could seal that area with high-temp silicone, but I really don't want to give up the ash drop. I could also put a large flat split over the lid to disperse the air so it would not be concentrated in one area. Or I could cut a steel plate maybe 6x8" that would do the same thing, but that sounds like it would be a hassle to mess with every time you want to drop ashes. I could make an effort to clear the coal bed away from lid further when loading. Hmmm, maybe I could glue a piece of gasket inside the ash drop opening, or to the lid, that would seal off the hinge area...



BrotherBart said:


> Looks like the big hoss is gettin it done.
> If I ever for some reason replace the 30-NC it will be with a cat Buck. That eight inch liner was the problem with the big boy.


Yep, gettin' 'er done so far, but the coldest it's been so far is mid 20s...
The only Buck cat 6" I see on the website is the 20. They claim 1.9 cu.ft. on that. Can't recall what your square footage is in your "joint."  They claim 4.4 for the 91 but below the cat heat shield it's a bit over 2.5 that you can actually pack with wood. Either way, it seems as if it's capable of tossing major heat. As far as the stove itself, it's a heavy-duty piece. I think the top of the box is 5/16". This bad@ss is a chunk of iron, for sure.  There are some other (older?) cat models listed on the "EPA certified" page, so maybe some of those are 6" as well...



David Tackett said:


> I follow the manual instructions. It tells you when to shut down the air and how far to shut it down and when to close the bypass. I am just using this guide until I see if I can find a more efficient way. I have only been above 1800 one time.


Yeah, I'm just playing with it at this point to try to find better, quicker ways to get cat temp, etc. When I go over there, I don't want to be messing around real long. Need to get back home to load _my_ stove. 
On my small ramp-up fires I've been using several 2" splits to get big flame but still leave plenty of room for the main load. As the ramp up load burns down and starts to coal, I might try cheating and engaging the cat even though the probe is only at 600 or so. Maybe that will get the cat temp up around 900 quickly, without running too much unburned smoke through the cat. The reason I don't want to do that is so I don't put any creo in the cat which will later burn and accelerate the masking of the cat with ash. It is some work to get the cat out of this stove, not like the Fireview where I lift the lid and remove...about a five-second job. But as it is, if I have 700 on the probe and put in a full load and engage, it takes a while to get up above 900, where it seems the cat is starting to really reduce the visible smoke out of the stack. That's got to end up masking the cat with burnt creo ash as much as the method I want to try, I'd think?



ddddddden said:


> consensus on other cat stoves seems to be that the more flame you run in the firebox, the less smoke there is for the cat to eat. . .cat and stove top get cooler, all other sides of the stove get warmer; so more total heat output, but less heat from the cat when running the stove hard. Basically, you burn the smoke in the firebox(as flame), or you burn it in the cat. YMMV with the Buck, but I don't know why it would be radically different from other cats.


Yeah, that's basically how it is with the Fireview. But it seems like with the Buck, more flame can increase the cat temp. I'm not really sure...still learning at this point. Not being there to see a full burn, make adjustments etc. is slowing down the learning curve quite a bit.




> You're a good SIL. Nice install, and good on ya for making this happen for her!


Thanks! She's been good to us as well, so I'm glad to be able to do it. It also supplies an outlet for my inner stove nerd, so _I_ benefit as well...and my obsessive wood hoarding over the last couple years now looks to the family like it made sense, after all.  I hope her next utility bill is like $10 or something; That will _really_ make her smile.


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## ddddddden (Dec 7, 2012)

> Yeah, that's basically how it is with the Fireview. But it seems like with the Buck, more flame can increase the cat temp. I'm not really sure...still learning at this point. Not being there to see a full burn, make adjustments etc. is slowing down the learning curve quite a bit.


Maybe the cat probe is being heated up, but not by the cat?


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## David Tackett (Dec 7, 2012)

The manual doesn't call for the Cat temp to be any certain temperature.  It states once you have a good fire to close the bypass.  Before I started doing what the manual said I burnt up an entire load waiting on the Cat temp that never happened, because the heat goes straight up the chimney in the back and never heated the Cat.  When I hit the bypass the cat temp is usually around 200 but then rises quickly to the 1000 -1200 range.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 7, 2012)

ddddddden said:


> Maybe the cat probe is being heated up, but not by the cat?


Not sure but maybe when there are flames, that heat hits the cat and the probe. In that case the cat would be getting hotter also. I can't compare it to the Fv because the tip of its probe isn't over the cat. I need to get a longer probe if it's availabel, or maybe digital probe...


David Tackett said:


> The manual doesn't call for the Cat temp to be any certain temperature. It states once you have a good fire to close the bypass. Before I started doing what the manual said I burnt up an entire load waiting on the Cat temp that never happened, because the heat goes straight up the chimney in the back and never heated the Cat. When I hit the bypass the cat temp is usually around 200 but then rises quickly to the 1000 -1200 range.


The online manual and my printed manual say to get the probe to 700-900*. Tonight I had about 700 on the probe and engaged. With a little flame in the box the probe didn't climb very quickly. When I cut the air and snuffed the flame, the cat evidently started burning the smoke because the probe then rose a lot quicker (for the reason ddddddden stated above.) I don't know why they want that 700-900 probe reading if the cat is going to start burning quickly from as low as 200...maybe to minimize creo deposits becoming ash and masking the cat? Or maybe the cat can stall, but I haven't seen that yet with the higher probe temps I've been waiting for. I might contact them to see if I can get more info.

Page 5 here:
http://www.buckstove.com/buckfiles/manuals/Buck-Stove-Model-91-Manual-(Rev-10102008).pdf


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## David Tackett (Dec 8, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> Not sure but maybe when there are flames, that heat hits the cat and the probe. In that case the cat would be getting hotter also. I can't compare it to the Fv because the tip of its probe isn't over the cat. I need to get a longer probe if it's availabel, or maybe digital probe...
> 
> The online manual and my printed manual say to get the probe to 700-900*. Tonight I had about 700 on the probe and engaged. With a little flame in the box the probe didn't climb very quickly. When I cut the air and snuffed the flame, the cat evidently started burning the smoke because the probe then rose a lot quicker (for the reason ddddddden stated above.) I don't know why they want that 700-900 probe reading if the cat is going to start burning quickly from as low as 200...maybe to minimize creo deposits becoming ash and masking the cat? Or maybe the cat can stall, but I haven't seen that yet with the higher probe temps I've been waiting for. I might contact them to see if I can get more info.
> 
> ...


 
I was going by page 21.  How to build a fire.

8. Once your fire is burning well, close the bypass damper completely (push in). Gradually close the primary air 
controls (push in).  You will have to experiment with the primary air controls to accommodate your draft.  If 
you close them too soon, your fire may die down too quickly and go out.  Close them gradually, a little at a 
time, until you can close completely. 

Well, I will just have to keep playing with it.


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## ddddddden (Dec 8, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> Not sure but maybe when there are flames, that heat hits the cat and the probe. In that case the cat would be getting hotter also. I can't compare it to the Fv because the tip of its probe isn't over the cat. *I need to get a longer probe if it's available*, or maybe digital probe...


Todd talked to someone at. . .I think it was Condar.  IIRC, they said that the probe tip has to be within 1/4" of the cat to get an accurate reading. Maybe send him a msg. . .
You could use a thermocouple and log the output to a laptop; then you wouldn't have to be there to know how the stove was burning. 



> The online manual and my printed manual say to get the probe to 700-900*. Tonight I had about 700 on the probe and engaged. With a little flame in the box the probe didn't climb very quickly. When I cut the air and snuffed the flame, the cat evidently started burning the smoke because the probe then rose a lot quicker (for the reason ddddddden stated above..) *I don't know why they want that 700-900 probe reading* if the cat is going to start burning quickly from as low as 200...maybe to minimize creo deposits becoming ash and masking the cat? Or maybe the cat can stall, but I haven't seen that yet with the higher probe temps I've been waiting for. I might contact them to see if I can get more info.


I don't know either, but I'm curious to hear their explanation.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 8, 2012)

Whoa! I was laboring under a misconception regarding combustion air to the stove. Pretty sure that the right-side slider feeds air to both channels in the top of the fire box; The air wash channel, and the second one across the middle in the top of the fire box. The left slider "shot gun air" enters in the front center just below the door opening. That will be handy for starting a mini-blaze with small stuff in the front when starting a cold stove. That air enters _below_ the cat heat shield so might be useful to heat up the cat area faster.
This AM I just put in a few chunks and uglies. I closed the bypass around 600 and snuffed the flame; Cat got up to 900 pretty quickly. That little load should get me to this afternoon, when I'm going over to clean the glass...and perform a little experiment.  Then I'm gonna load up and try for a low 16-hr burn.



ddddddden said:


> You could use a thermocouple and log the output to a laptop; then you wouldn't have to be there to know how the stove was burning.


Yeah, that would be very helpful. So would a web cam but she has no internet over there. 
"Log" the output...funny stuff, den. 



> I don't know either, but I'm curious to hear their explanation.


Yeah, why do they want 700-900 when others (Fv, e.g.) say 250 stove top equal 500 internal, and that is enough to light off the cat. I guess the stove construction could be a variable but I'm pretty sure the cats are the same or very similar.


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## David Tackett (Dec 8, 2012)

Do you all do anything about those bay windows?  I cleaned mine when I bought it and they have been black ever since.  I could care less if they are clean, but the wife is like, "why can't I see through those"?


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## pgmr (Dec 8, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> Whoa! I was laboring under a misconception regarding combustion air to the stove. Pretty sure that the right-side slider feeds air to both channels in the top of the fire box; The air wash channel, and the second one across the middle in the top of the fire box. The left slider "shot gun air" enters in the front center just below the door opening.


 
Our Buck 80 has secondary air supply channels that feed from the front, bottom corners. If the corner trim piece is removed, one can see the channel iron welded to the outside of the firebox that angles up to where it enters the firebox and feeds air behind the catalyst chamber. There is no user control for these secondary air inlets. I've seen jets of flame coming out of the holes in that secondary during really hot fires. I wouldn't be surprised if the Model 91 uses a similar setup.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 18, 2012)

David Tackett said:


> The manual doesn't call for the Cat temp to be any certain temperature. It states once you have a good fire to close the bypass. Before I started doing what the manual said I burnt up an entire load waiting on the Cat temp that never happened, because the heat goes straight up the chimney in the back and never heated the Cat. When I hit the bypass the cat temp is usually around 200 but then rises quickly to the 1000 -1200 range.


Yeah, I figured that you had to have the 700-900 on the probe before closing the bypass on a new load. Usually, by the time I got the wood loaded, the temp had dropped down. Then the combustor would never take off because I was cutting the air back too much. What I do now if I have a decent coal bed is to throw on a couple of small kindling splits and burn those pretty hot, using some shot gun air with air wash air. When those splits are pretty well burned up but still flaming, I'll close the bypass and get the cat cooking and the probe temp up to 900 or so. Then I load the stove with the coals pushed into the middle N/S. I make sure that there are no coals under the splits that I load on the left side, so that the ash drop air doesn't burn up those splits until later. I think that is what was happening when I got the 1800 cat temps; Too much wood gassing at the beginning. So I've got the coals in the middle and not under the splits on the sides. Then I toss a few smaller splits on the coals in the middle, close the bypass and get some decent flame going in the middle. This seems to bring the cat probe up quickly, even if the cat probe started at only 550-600, and I can see the cat start to glow in maybe ten minutes (not like the Fireview, where you close the bypass and the cat is glowing immediately and you can cut the air to zero if you want.) But re-reading the section you reference, it says "_gradually_ close the primary air controls." I guess my reading comprehension skills need more work. 
I like to have the probe as high as possible to minimize the amount of time that unburned smoke is going through the cat. I don't think the cat has gone high since I started loading this way. Hard to say for sure since I'm not there to watch the entire burn. I _have_ stopped back several times after an hour or two and the cat hasn't been too hot, so I think this method is working.
My cat temps won't zoom from 200 up to 1000 like yours apparently does; It would take me a good while to cover that distance. Your combustor isn't new either, but maybe mine is not working as well as yours. I would toss a new one in there...if it wasn't $285. 

I'd certainly like to hear from other operators detailing their start-up/reload procedures...



> Do you all do anything about those bay windows? I cleaned mine when I bought it and they have been black ever since. I could care less if they are clean, but the wife is like, "why can't I see through those"?


I guess the air wash doesn't hit those bay windows. I don't bother with cleaning 'em. It would be cool to be able to see the flame through those...




pgmr said:


> Our Buck 80 has secondary air supply channels that feed from the front, bottom corners. If the corner trim piece is removed, one can see the channel iron welded to the outside of the firebox that angles up to where it enters the firebox and feeds air behind the catalyst chamber. There is no user control for these secondary air inlets. I've seen jets of flame coming out of the holes in that secondary during really hot fires. I wouldn't be surprised if the Model 91 uses a similar setup.


Sounds like the 91 has a different setup. I believe that the air is coming into my stove as stated in my post that you quoted. I think that both air wash air and shot gun air would be considered 'primary' air but I'm sure that smoke can ignite up in the top of the stove and look a bit like secondary flames. I have on occasion seen some flame through the gap between the cat heat shield and the air wash channel, or through the holes in the back of the air wash channel, visible through the front air wash mesh. I haven't had the sheet metal trim off to actually verify where the air channels go from the front bottom intakes. It's intuitive that the shot gun air would come out right above where the inlet is, in the middle underneath, and you can see this air blowing on the coals when you open it up.


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## corey21 (Dec 18, 2012)

Looks nice.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 19, 2012)

David Tackett said:


> I was going by page 21. How to build a fire.
> 
> 8.* Once your fire is burning well, close the bypass damper completely (push in).*
> Gradually close the primary air controls (push in). You will have to experiment with the primary air controls to accommodate your draft. If you close them too soon, your fire may die down too quickly and go out. Close them gradually, a little at a time, until you can close completely.
> ...


Right, you have to keep playing with it until you finally figure out that you have to use part of what they say on page 21 and part of what they say on page 5.  I've gotten _that_ far, now I've trying to get a better feel for the combination of flame and air, at different stages of the ramp-up, that will get the temp up and cat lit off the quickest. I can pretty much have it cruising in about half an hour if I have some coals to work with, a bit longer if I'm starting cold. Like I said, the jury is still out on this cat. It may be a bit tired, judging from how fast you say yours will take off from low temps...

page 5
ACHIEVING CATALYTIC LIGHT-OFF
The temperature in the stove and the gases entering the combustor must be raised to between 700 F to 900 F for
catalytic activity to be initiated. The temperature can be determined by the Catalyst Monitor Probe. During the
start up of a cold stove a medium to high firing rate must be maintained for about 20 minutes. This can be
achieved by starting the fire with dry kindling, paper, and small split wood.* Have the Bypass Damper fully open*
*(pulled out). This ensures that the stove, catalyst, and fuel are all stabilized at proper operating temperatures.*
Even though it is possible (and likely) to have gas temperatures reach 600 F within two to three minutes after a
fire is started, if the fire is allowed to die down immediately it may go out or the combustor may stop working.
Once the combustor starts working, heat generated in it by burning the smoke will keep it working.

ACHIEVING CATALYTIC LIGHT-OFF WHEN REFUELING
During the refueling and rekindling of a cool fire, or a fire that has burned down to the charcoal phase, operate the
stove at a medium to high firing rate for about 10 minutes to ensure that the catalyst reaches approximately 800
F.

This AM I tossed in a load of soft Maple on a pretty big coal bed. I have to burn the load for a while to get the cat lit off, and I got a bit of a "goer" this time as the cat headed for 1500. I had to leave but stopped back in about an hour and it had leveled off a little over 1600. I'm starting to get more confident that if I load this stove right I can keep the cat temp from taking off. I just have to take a little more care with wood that tends to burn faster; Big splits of Oak, Ash, Hickory seem to burn in a very controlled manner...


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## Woody Stover (Dec 19, 2012)

How long is it taking you folks to get above 1000 on a reload with a coal bed, and from a cold start?


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## mellow (Dec 19, 2012)

Cold start,  takes atleast 45 minutes to get to 1000 on the cat.  I have to burn up the starting wood quite a bit before I close the damper at around 600 on the cat probe (30 minutes),  then it takes it another 15 minutes to go over 1000.


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm late to this thread but glad to see some other Buck 91 users here. I'm on my third year with this stove but the first year doesn't really count because I had a 'slammer' install and terrible (read unseasoned) wood. Last year I installed a liner and block off plate and my wood was much better. This year I have 2 year old oak and sweet gum with a bit of hickory as well. This year I feel like I'm finally learning what the stove will do and how to run it effectively.

First off let me say that I don't wait for the cat probe to read 7-800 before I engage it. I engage at about 4-500 regularly and it takes off from there. If it is a cold start, it probably takes about 45 min to get the cat to 1000 but if I reload on a hot coal bed with the cat reading 4-500 still, I open the door, load it up, close it and immediately engage the cat again even if it's around 400. I open the air full blast (including the doghouse). I let er rip until the cat is at about 1000 (about 10-15 min) then shut it down 1/2 way or maybe a little more. Once the cat gets to 1500 I shut it down to just a crack past closed and then a few minutes later close it all the way down. It will then run at 1500 to 1700 for a couple hours, depending on the size of the load, and start down from there. If I load it up about 1/2 to 3/4 with good oak, I get about 8 hours of usable heat and if I load it to the gills I can get 12-14. When the cat is in the 1500 range my stove temp thermometer on the front just like yours is in the 600 range. I don't think we can compare stove top temps with what a lot of people talk about here because of the air sheathing around and above it which keeps the temp of the metal lower than one without a blower.

Lots of good info and questions here in this thread and I'll chew on some of it a bit more and get back.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who finds the side bay glass completely useless.


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 19, 2012)

I loaded up the stove this morning at 8 with about 3/4 load of sweetgum and 1 large oak split. It got warm this afternoon and so I didn't touch the stove all day and this was at 7 this evening. So 11 hours and still putting out usable heat. I have the cat probe marked and the marker painted white. It helps me see what is going on at a glance when the light is low. You can see I have the 400 marked and when it gets to there, I usually engage the cat. I have heard people talk about 'stalled' cats but don't really know what that means. Even though I engage a lot lower than the book says to, I've never not have it take off and head up quickly.

My cats came with the stove and I have no idea of the history since I bought it used from a foreclosed house. I am in my third year on them and they seem to be doing great. Here is a picture of my stove.  I chose to not use the surround as I thought I would get more heat out of it.  I painted the inside of the fireplace black and I like the look of it.  Kind of a freestanding stove in the fireplace rather than the classic insert look.


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## mellow (Dec 20, 2012)

WoodpileOCD:  I am jealous you are able to have wood inside this year,  this is the first year I have had to keep the wood outside on the porch and bring in a load at a time,  we have been having huge issues with spiders this year coming in on the wood (kids and wife are not to keen on them). 

It is pretty cool how the Appalachian stoves are pretty close to the Bucks in terms of operation,  probably can say the same for the Stoll 1500,2500 stoves.


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 20, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> How long is it taking you folks to get above 1000 on a reload with a coal bed, and from a cold start?


Let the fire go out last night so decided to document the cold start this morning. Here it is

8:25 start w/ 6 small to medium splits and 4 pieces of split 2x4 kindling (and a 1/8 super cedar)
8:42 cat at 400 so engaged. Stovetop at 200
8:48 cat at 800 ST at 250
8:51 cat at 1000 ST 300 air to 1/2
8:56 cat at 1200 ST 375 air to 1/4
9:03 cat at 1400 ST 450 air just cracked
9:10 cat still at 1400 ST 550 air shut all the way down

Never got above 1400 but I didn't have that much wood in it either. You can see that the cat takes right off when it is engaged at 400 which tells me its eating smoke right away. I've watched it start to move almost as soon as I engage it at this temp.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 20, 2012)

mellow said:


> Cold start, takes atleast 45 minutes to get to 1000 on the cat. I have to burn up the starting wood quite a bit before I close the damper at around 600 on the cat probe (30 minutes), then it takes it another 15 minutes to go over 1000.





WoodpileOCD said:


> I'm late to this thread but glad to see some other Buck 91 users here.


Glad you found the thread and weighed in!  Thank you, and mellow, for posting the useful info. Maybe my cat isn't that tired, after all. It appears that we've all found a similar effective way to ramp up the stove...get the cat involved early, at lower-than-recommended temps. I discovered this when I had a start-up load going, then left for a while with the cat accidentally engaged. When I came back...900 on the probe. Hmmm... But you've cut out the extra step of a separate small start-up load with a few kindling splits, and have saved time there. [400 to 800 in six minutes...impressive.]  I've been cutting back to cruise air at a little lower temp than you do...like 1100 or a little over. Like mellow, I've been bypassing until about 600 on the probe. Flame is starting to diminish on the start-up kindling at this point but the cat rises steadily, and I figure there's not all that much smoke coming off what's left of the start-up load, possibly minimizing unburned smoke going through the cat. I might be worrying for nothing though; Manual sez "_Even though it is possible (and likely) to have gas temperatures reach 600 F within two to three minutes after a_
_fire is started, if the fire is allowed to die down immediately it may go out or the combustor may stop working. Once the combustor starts working, heat generated in it by burning the smoke will keep it working_." So it may be that the combustor is already burning the smoke, even starting from 400. However, I can go out, look at the stack, and still see smoke until the probe is over 1000, so...
If you fall asleep during the start-up fire, like I did this AM, cat probe will go over 1100. 
When I get 800 or so on the probe, I load. I can tell the cat is burning if the probe temp doesn't drop much when I have the door open to load up, so I'll experiment with that and see if I can get it burning at a lower temp. As I've mentioned, I've had the probe approach 1800 a couple of time, which I want to avoid. I think that has happened because, in trying to get from 600 to 1000, I've gotten too much of the load burning. Also, the air coming in from the ash drop lid really makes the left side of the load take off once it gets burning. To keep most of the load from getting involved early, when I load I'll push the coals to the middle N/S. Then I grab two big split and, using the fat sides as 'walls,' push the coals into as thin a N/S line as I can. I then build up the far left and right sides with big splits. Lastly, I put a few smaller splits in the center on top of the coals. I then clear out any coals/ash in front of the 'shot gun air box.' To get some flame going and the cat chewing, I use mainly shot gun (doghouse) air (left slider,) with little or no air coming into the air wash and the other channel half way back in the top of the fire box (right slider.) I figure this sends hotter air to the cat. It also keeps the load burning in the very center instead of getting more wood involved like the air wash does. I cut the shot gun air and cruise it with the air wash closed, or slightly open. I think this method may allow me to cruise with the air open a little more when I need more heat, with the load burning in a more even, controlled manner. It might put out more heat later in the load. Up 'til now I've been having my MIL open up the air a bit in the afternoon to get more heat and burn the coals down for the reload.


mellow said:


> WoodpileOCD: I am jealous you are able to have wood inside this year, this is the first year I have had to keep the wood outside on the porch and bring in a load at a time, we have been having huge issues with spiders this year coming in on the wood (kids and wife are not to keen on them).
> It is pretty cool how the Appalachian stoves are pretty close to the Bucks in terms of operation, probably can say the same for the Stoll 1500,2500 stoves.


 Yep, pretty nice to have a half-cord or so stacked up next to the stove. 
Those Appalachians look almost identical...


WoodpileOCD said:


> Here is a picture of my stove. I chose to not use the surround as I thought I would get more heat out of it. I painted the inside of the fireplace black and I like the look of it. Kind of a freestanding stove in the fireplace rather than the classic insert look.


Wow, that looks great. The elevated hearth accents the free-standing look. And you don't have to crawl around on your knees! 
What's that leaning up in the corner, a bong? Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "That cat is lit off."


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 20, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> What's that leaning up in the corner, a bong? Give a whole new meaning to the phrase "That cat is lit off."


 Seems like I had one about that size "back in the day"... now if i lived in Washington state or Colorado...   It's a rainstick.


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## David Tackett (Dec 22, 2012)

Ok, you guys say that you close the bypass when your cat probe gets to 600 degrees.  How hot is your stove pipe temp at this time?  I close my bypass around 400, because if I don't the chimney pipe gets over 600 degrees.


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## mellow (Dec 24, 2012)

David Tackett said:


> How hot is your stove pipe temp at this time?


 
You might be one of the few that are running it as a freestanding stove,  most of us with inserts don't monitor the chimney pipe temps.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 24, 2012)

mellow said:


> You might be one of the few that are running it as a freestanding stove, most of us with inserts don't monitor the chimney pipe temps.


I didn't put the surround on right away and it seems to me that the temps were in the 300s, max. But now I'm cranking the stove on start-up more than I did at first...
Is that 600 on a probe or a surface thermo? Even on a surface thermo, I wouldn't think 600 would be excessive, maybe 1100 or so internal? I've noticed with the IR gun that the hottest spots seem to be the inside corner where the flue takes a sharp bend, like going from the horizontal tee snout to the vertical flex on my Fv. I've also noticed that the IR will often report a lower temp than the surface thermo...


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## Woody Stover (Dec 25, 2012)

WoodpileOCD said:


> if I reload on a hot coal bed with the cat reading 4-500 still, I open the door, load it up, close it and immediately engage the cat again even if it's around 400. I open the air full blast (including the doghouse). I let er rip until the cat is at about 1000 (about 10-15 min) then shut it down 1/2 way or maybe a little more. Once the cat gets to 1500 I shut it down to just a crack past closed and then a few minutes later close it all the way down.


Yeah, I'm finding the I really have to put the heat to it to get 'er rockin' and get the combustor burning the smoke up. Lately, I haven't had success cutting the air early and the cat taking off on the smoke like it did a couple of times before. If I don't have the combustor up to 1100 at least, it will drop quite a bit when I turn on the blower and will just hang at the lower temp. Maybe it _should_ be burning the smoke at 800, but I still see quite a bit. Are you guys getting a clean burn at that temp? If others are finding it easier than I am to get a clean burn, I may end up getting a new cat and saving the old one for a spare. Looking at how fast Rusty is able to ramp it up has got me wondering about this cat...


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## Woody Stover (Dec 25, 2012)

Oh yeah, and some of the Sugar Maple splits I took over there don't seem super-dry. Not sizzling but they might be a bit sluggish. I've been putting those against the walls of the box, on top, and drier stuff in the middle to get 'er rollin'.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 25, 2012)

Quickly becoming an adherent to the BWS school of wood-drying...Oak, three years...two years for everything else that's supposed to dry in a year.


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## HotCoals (Dec 25, 2012)

Great cat thread!

I don't know if this tip will work for you Buck guys but it does for me.

To get the stove up to temp without using kindling I put in 2 to 5 cups of good hard wood pellets on the coals that I have left.
I let it rip with full air and usually have the by-pass closed.
.
Then after the fire from the pellets dies some I load the wood in.
I don't do it every time and a few bags of pellets is fairly cheap and easy to store.
It sure brings my stove temp up fast.
Cheers!


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## Woody Stover (Dec 25, 2012)

HotCoals said:


> To get the stove up to temp without using kindling I put in 2 to 5 cups of good hard wood pellets on the coals that I have left.
> I let it rip with full air and usually have the by-pass closed...It sure brings my stove temp up fast.
> Cheers!


Good idea! I _do_ have a bunch of soft Maple over there that came off yard trees in the wind, and most is pretty dry. I need to split some of that down into kindling...


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 25, 2012)

Woody Stover said:


> Oh yeah, and some of the Sugar Maple splits I took over there don't seem super-dry. Not sizzling but they might be a bit sluggish. I've been putting those against the walls of the box, on top, and drier stuff in the middle to get 'er rollin'.


 
Better wood this year has definitely made a difference.  Last year some of my wood was pretty iffy moisture wise but this year most everything I am burning is a full year or more and the oak is 2 years c/s/s.   I'm seeing my temps go up much faster and without having to overthink things this year.   I've burned for 20 years with an old 'Black Bart' smoke dragon and never gave much thought to seasoning the wood other than trying to get 6-8 months or a year drying.  First year with the Buck, I found this site and all the talk about 2-3 years and I thought, yea right, just how much difference can another year make in the wood......   :-(  Just say that now I'm a believer and will (if at all possible) never get less than 2-3 years ahead again.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm liking the way the stove is running now that I'm getting the hang of it. As far as I can gather from the stove readings that my wife, MIL and SIL jot down when I'm not there, I don't think the combustor has been getting too hot. Mixing in the semi-dry Maple with the drier Oak, etc, seems to result in a nice, controlled burn. As I said, I've been making sure there are no coals under the wood that I stack on the left side, above the ash dump, which keeps that wood from gassing too early in the burn. Big splits probably help as well.
House temp is tailing off at the end of the overnight burn, so I'm having her toss a couple of smaller splits on when she gets up to keep the furnace off as much as possible. She's got it set at 63, which she claims doesn't seem cold compared to how it was without the stove.  It's been teens at night and low 30s daytime, so a little below average for this time of year. If I was there running the stove, I could be tweaking it mid-burn to get more even output, but I can't expect her to do as much as I would. That said, she seems to be taking an interest in the operation of the stove, so that's good. I'm going to take some higher-powered wood over there next load, Hickory and BL, and maybe mixing that in will keep the stove tossing heat a bit longer without tweaking.
I think I'm losing some heat to the continuous windows on three walls in the stove room. The inner windows seem pretty tight but the storms on the east and west walls could use new glazing compound. The north wall has aluminum storms...not sure what I can do there to trap the air pocket better. If this stove was in the next room, which is more central to the floor plan, I'm sure overall house temps would be a few degrees higher.
There's definitely a different burn with the drier Oak than with the not-as-dry hard Maple. I've seen the cat glowing as low as 800* with the Oak. I'm thinking the combustor is working pretty well, but hopefully I can stop over at maflake's one day when he's ramping up his 91 to compare. His combustor is only two years old. His Red Oak isn't quite as dry as mine so I don't know if a comparison could really be made unless the same wood was used in both stoves...
I'm probably going to end up burning more of my primo wood over at her place than at mine. I've been using a bit of Cherry and soft Maple at home, throwing in some BL or something for overnight. I'm trying to conserve the big splits and primo stuff now, so I'm glad I have the medium-heat woods to help me do that. Here I thought I was in Fat City, wood-wise. Now with the 91 eating, not so much. Can't let up and coast yet... 
I've been refining my technique for using the ash drop, and it's not much problem at all. I usually pull and dump the pan every couple of days. I figure that if I empty the pan before dumping new ash in, any coals lost in the previous dump have burned somewhat and heated up the stove a little. That's why I avoid shoveling and immediately tossing out the coals, if possible...hate tossing away heat. 
Yeah, I'm liking more and more how this stove works. To reload on a coal bed, I toss in a few small splits, leave they bypass open until the probe hits 600. Close the bypass and take it up to around 1000. I maintain pretty lively flame in the box during ramp-up. I find that tweaking the balance between shot gun and airwash air can accelerate temp rise when I find the sweet spot. Then I load up, char the center a bit with shotgun air and close the bypass again. Finally, I cut the shot gun air and leave the airwash either closed or open maybe a little open, depending on the load. I've now got it to where I can go from coals to cruise in about half an hour. My wife and SIL are now able to run the stove as well, so we're splitting up the workload and saving me trips over there.


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## eujamfh (Jan 7, 2013)

We have a buck 91 and similarly getting the cat up to temp on a completely cold stove takes some time if the dampener is open. Ours will get to 500 withing 20 minutes or so…but I have been known to close it at 400 and it takes off really fast. When I close it early, I go out and look at the stack and seldom is there a long period of black smoke.  There is usually only a couple minutes and then the cat is off and running.  I also found, pending the wood I have to run it with the air completely shut down.  Dry pine or poplar, it HAS to be shut down or it will run off.  With better wood (oak or locust) I leave the one air open a quarter an inch.  If the outside temps are above 40 degrees, it runs amuck quickly and I put a box fan ten feet way to remove some of the stove hear…if it is below 32 degrees, I have fewer problems with a full load running hot.  

The other night the house was 75 degrees and it was 40 degrees outside…I loaded it with oak, and it quickly got to the 1600 range…I had to run the box fan all night since the blower simply was not able to remove enough heat to make me comfortable.  

We have found the 91 to be a beast in cold weather.  Load it and let it fly.  But in "shoulder" temps, I have found tinkering with the box fan a necessity.  Its a little bit of a pain, but worth it when the temps dip.

We just installed a new cat this year, as well as a new rheostat.  Rheostat we had started to fail and was fluctuating on its own…that meant really keeping tabs on the temps.  But with the new rheostat installed, and cooler temps ahead, it will do what it has done for years and that is pump out a lot of heat.  Course, which its large  woodbox, it also means we chew through wood heating the house.

Thus far this year, between the two stoves we have burned about three cords of pine.  We are through the pine now and burning oak only…which means large coal beds and overnight burns with little fanfare.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2013)

eujamfh said:


> I have been known to close it at 400 and it takes off really fast. When I close it early, I go out and look at the stack and seldom is there a long period of black smoke. There is usually only a couple minutes and then the cat is off and running. I also found, pending the wood I have to run it with the air completely shut down. Dry pine or poplar, it HAS to be shut down or it will run off. With better wood (oak or locust) I leave the one air open a quarter an inch. If the outside temps are above 40 degrees, it runs amuck quickly and I put a box fan ten feet way to remove some of the stove hear…if it is below 32 degrees, I have fewer problems with a full load running hot.


Hmmm, sounds like a new combustor might be in order at some point. Did you buy your 91 new, or do you know how long your old cat lasted? Why did you decide to replace it? Mine doesn't take off from 400, or as quickly as you're describing. It _will _go pretty high sometimes depending on the wood, like you said. This AM I put several splits of soft Maple in the center of the load. After 1.5 hours it was up to 1640. I left, but I'm pretty sure it was leveling off there, or might go a little higher. I had some Oak and hard Maple on the sides of the load so I don't think it'll go too high. Because my combustor seems to be slower to light off, I've been using just a few splits to get up to temp. If I put in a full load, too much of it might get burning before I could get up to temp and cut the air, then I risk the cat going too high.
Last night, I cut the air and turned on the blower a little too early I guess because the probe temp dropped below 700. Cutting the blower again allowed the temp to rise pretty quickly to around 1000, and the cat began to glow. I might be over-thinking the cat a bit, but I like to make sure it's burning clean before I leave so as not to annoy the neighbors with smoke for a long period. I think with a new cat, I could skip the warm-up splits and just put a full load in, confident that the cat would take off quickly. That would definitely save me time and extra adjustments.
The wood I'm taking over there is cut for my stove, about 16". This has worked out pretty well. If I have a big coal bed when I get there to load the stove, I can push some of the coals to the back of the box and still have room in the front for a load of the 16" splits.


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## mellow (Jan 8, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> As I said, I've been making sure there are no coals under the wood that I stack on the left side, above the ash dump, which keeps that wood from gassing too early in the burn. Big splits probably help as well.


 
So the ash dump on the Bucks leak air as well, interesting. I just disabled mine with furnace cement since I did not use it and was sick of the possible over fires happening from it. I am getting longer controlled burns since I disabled it.

My post about it with my Bay 52: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/appalachian-52-bay-wood-stove-insert.83621/page-4#post-1316604


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## clemsonfor (Jan 8, 2013)

I have a high valley, but the design of it and the 91 i think are similar. It takes a while for my smoke to clear, and i have noticed that hotter it is, say over 1100 the beter the smoke clears. But even if i have a chared load of good wood it will take 5 mins at least to clear the smoke after engagement. Better wood like oak that is dry is better. I have dry pine and it still will smoke a bit even in the active range, also i have some elm that is low 20s maybe and it will smoke at 1100-1300 ish even after engagement, it all depends but my good oak clears faster.  Now the pine will roll smoke then i close damper and it will still smke for minutes but unless that cat is rocking 1300F it still will wisp some smoke.

I probably need new cats but there clearing 90% of the smoke it appears when you look at it without then once fully engaged.


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## mellow (Jan 8, 2013)

You might be seeing steam not smoke,  I know on these colder days I still get a steam trail,  but it dissipates after 10 feet.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I have a high valley, but the design of it and the 91 i think are similar. It takes a while for my smoke to clear, and i have noticed that hotter it is, say over 1100 the beter the smoke clears. But even if i have a chared load of good wood it will take 5 mins at least to clear the smoke after engagement. Better wood like oak that is dry is better. I have dry pine and it still will smoke a bit even in the active range, also i have some elm that is low 20s maybe and it will smoke at 1100-1300 ish even after engagement, it all depends but my good oak clears faster. Now the pine will roll smoke then i close damper and it will still smke for minutes but unless that cat is rocking 1300F it still will wisp some smoke.
> I probably need new cats but there clearing 90% of the smoke it appears when you look at it without then once fully engaged.


That sounds more like how mine operates. And I _have_ burned some loads of dry Oak lately. As I said, I've seen the cat glowing at 800 with the dry Oak, so it's likely that the cat will perform great when all of my wood supply is that dry.
Pine definitely burns dirtier, even when it's dry. You can see the black smoke coming off of it. Heck, last night I threw a couple of Fatwoods on some coals in the front of the Fv. The door was slightly open so there was no airwash. That pitchy stuff gunked up the entire front window in short order. It burned off later, and nobody is burning Fatwood for heat (I don't think) but regular Pine is putting out more gunk than hardwood, too.


mellow said:


> You might be seeing steam not smoke, I know on these colder days I still get a steam trail, but it dissipates after 10 feet.


Yeah, it can be tough to tell the smoke from the steam, or I could be getting a combination of the two. With this semi-dry hard Maple I've been burning, steam output is probably pretty high at the beginning of the burn.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2013)

mellow said:


> So the ash dump on the Bucks leak air as well, interesting. I just disabled mine with furnace cement since I did not use it and was sick of the possible over fires happening from it. I am getting longer controlled burns since I disabled it.
> 
> My post about it with my Bay 52: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/appalachian-52-bay-wood-stove-insert.83621/page-4#post-1316604


Good info about your stove in that thread, mellow. 

_Here's the ash pan on the 91. The gasket is secured with hi-temp silicone. You can see that the back of the pan is open, so if you spill ash or coals in the housing, the pan will still slide all the way in._






_In this pic you can see the piece of spring steel welded to the left side of the pan housing that exerts pressure on the pan and holds it in place. The pan gasket seals against the end of the housing. Some air still gets by, though. There's no rod or hole like the 52 has._





_The ash drop lid hinges up. I thought of sealing off the ash drop like you did, but have been able to minimize the effect of the air coming in, at the beginning of the burn anyway, by clearing off the coals and putting a large split with a flat bottom on top of the lid._





_The door latch cams down on the plate-steel front. You can see the set screw hole with no screw. They have a roll pin instead (not visible here.)_





You gotta be quick loading this thing if you have a sizable coal bed in there; It will melt your face off and cook you like a roasting pig!  I'm usually down to a tee shirt at that point...gotta know where your arms are in relation to hot stove parts, as I found out the hard way.


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## mellow (Jan 9, 2013)

For reloads I will usually do it in 3 phases if time allows, I will open the bypass and air and let it sit for a minute to help clear up smoke, then I open it up and push all the active coals to the back and create a trench in the ashes in the middle back to front then close the door, then I go and get my wood and put it by the stove, put on my welding gloves, then load up the stove as fast as I can back to front. Sometimes that is a really challenge if you are doing a reload of a hot firebox but the welding gloves do make it easier.

If interested I got my welding gloves at harborfreight: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-pair-14-inch-split-cowhide-welding-gloves-488.html


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## Woody Stover (Jan 9, 2013)

mellow said:


> For reloads I will usually do it in 3 phases if time allows, I will open the bypass and air and let it sit for a minute to help clear up smoke, then I open it up and push all the active coals to the back and create a trench in the ashes in the middle back to front then close the door, then I go and get my wood and put it by the stove, put on my welding gloves, then load up the stove as fast as I can back to front. Sometimes that is a really challenge if you are doing a reload of a hot firebox but the welding gloves do make it easier.


So you're loading E/W? I haven't tried that yet. What results are you getting compared to N/S? It would probably prevent excessive gassing early and prevent the cat temp from going high. I don't want to slow it down too much though, especially in the morning when I need to recover house temp. The stove room isn't centrally located, and all the glass in that room is robbing me of BTUs as well.
I'm using a nice pair of leather gloves that come up pretty far. Thomas included them with my SuperCedar order last year.


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## mellow (Jan 9, 2013)

I was doing N/S but I found even with the ash dump air leak fix the firebox would still have to much flame activity and the cat would go up to 1500 and the load would burn quicker and hotter even with the air shut down completely, which if I needed the extra heat I would do that, but for 90% of the time I only need to load E/W and enjoy the longer burn times (air trench in ash helps with E/W).

The other bothersome thing with loading N/S is I feel I have to turn the fan on high so the extra BTU's don't go to waste, the fan on low is quite loud, on high it is right down annoying.


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## WoodpileOCD (Jan 11, 2013)

How can you tell if your ash pan seal is leaking?  Do you see hot spots in the coals around the drop or extra flames there?  I have never used mine or even pulled it out for that matter.  I only have to empty about every 10 days or so and I find it easy enough to just shovel into a bucket.   Just curious because I have not seen any indication that I have any leaks.    I do have a minor leak in the lower right corner of my door but I think I read of a couple other people with the same problem with these stoves.  I'm going to reseal with door gasket soon and see if that fixes the problem.


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## mellow (Jan 12, 2013)

Click the link I posted back on post #40 in this thread, I could visually see in my stove bright red hot coals right over the ash pan indicating an air leak.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 12, 2013)

mellow said:


> I was doing N/S but I found even with the ash dump air leak fix the firebox would still have to much flame activity and the cat would go up to 1500 and the load would burn quicker and hotter even with the air shut down completely, which if I needed the extra heat I would do that, but for 90% of the time I only need to load E/W and enjoy the longer burn times (air trench in ash helps with E/W).
> 
> The other bothersome thing with loading N/S is I feel I have to turn the fan on high so the extra BTU's don't go to waste, the fan on low is quite loud, on high it is right down annoying.


Good info, mellow. I hadn't thought much about trying E/W loading. I don't think the cat has been going too high when I make sure the wood over the ash lid is packed for a slow burn. I think the ash dump is a little different on the Buck than the App. But I might try E/W with some of the Hickory and BL that I'm going to take over there in the next load. Maybe that would prolong the high heat output and keep room temp from tailing off as much at the end of the burn. Yeah, the fan seems a bit loud to me, but I haven't burned many blower stoves to compare it to. Not really a problem there, since she doesn't hang out in the stove room.


WoodpileOCD said:


> How can you tell if your ash pan seal is leaking? Do you see hot spots in the coals around the drop or extra flames there? I have never used mine or even pulled it out for that matter. I only have to empty about every 10 days or so and I find it easy enough to just shovel into a bucket. Just curious because I have not seen any indication that I have any leaks. I do have a minor leak in the lower right corner of my door but I think I read of a couple other people with the same problem with these stoves. I'm going to reseal with door gasket soon and see if that fixes the problem.


Like mellow said, I can see the coals glowing above the ash drop lid, and flame if I don't load it to burn slower over there. I don't really see the stove a lot when the load has burned for a while, so I'm thinking it probably burns pretty hot above the lid later in the burn.
Yeah, it seems that the lower right corner of the glass is a little dirtier than the lower left. I put a new gasket on and that seemed to help somewhat. I think my door latch might have a notch worn in it that is preventing me from getting the door as tight as it could be. I need to take a closer look and if that's the case, file the latch ramp to smooth out the operation of the latch. Could also be that due to the hotter burn over the ash lid, the left side stays cleaner...


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## clemsonfor (Jan 12, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Good info about your stove in that thread, mellow.
> 
> _Here's the ash pan on the 91. The gasket is secured with hi-temp silicone. You can see that the back of the pan is open, so if you spill ash or coals in the housing, the pan will still slide all the way in._
> 
> ...


 Just like mine although on the HV2500 the ash door is more like the door on the bottom of a fireplace where it hinges in the middle.  Also mine is on the right.  But when mine has a coal bed its hot, so hot you almost need a welding mask to wear with the welding gloves that I wear. It instantly catches too.  I have the same swiss cheese air disperser thing like you see in your 2nd to last pic, at the top of the door opening. I now have about a 2.5" long "Tat" of that pattern in my upper forearm from loading the hot stove a few weeks ago and bumping it. And I did have welding gloves on at the time but I think i hit right past them?


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## clemsonfor (Jan 12, 2013)

I some times will load EW in my 2500 which is similar to the B91 and the Ap52 in design. But when loading EW its usually on a night I don't need much heat and I am only putting a few splits in to maintain low heat and a coal bed, same for a day burn where not much is needed.

My problem like yours im sure is that its hard to load EW and fill it up, my cats hang down in front making loading a pain to stack the rear up, and also wood can  roll and hit glass if you stack to high in the front. I mean when I reLLY  want heat a full NS load can get 10+ hours out and when I just need a small amout of heat I can burn for 24 hours on a full NS load. My stove is 3.5cuft which I think is 1cuft smallet than the buck?


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## Woody Stover (Jan 12, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I some times will load EW in my 2500 which is similar to the B91 and the Ap52 in design. But when loading EW its usually on a night I don't need much heat and I am only putting a few splits in to maintain low heat and a coal bed, same for a day burn where not much is needed.
> 
> My problem like yours im sure is that its hard to load EW and fill it up, my cats hang down in front making loading a pain to stack the rear up, and also wood can roll and hit glass if you stack to high in the front. I mean when I reLLY want heat a full NS load can get 10+ hours out and when I just need a small amout of heat I can burn for 24 hours on a full NS load. My stove is 3.5cuft which I think is 1cuft smallet than the buck?


Pretty much everything I have is 16", so filling it E/W looks like a problem. If the weather is cold (40/20,) I need high heat output. The 91 has a heat shield under the cat, almost the full depth of the box, so I can't stack real high. I'm measuring the 91 at about 2.5 cu.ft. usable space...


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## clemsonfor (Jan 12, 2013)

most my wood I cut to avg 16", and I have a shield in the front as well. I never measured it in useable space, im just quoting what the specs are.


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## David Tackett (Jan 15, 2013)

I have been loading N/S in this stove.  Buck recommends you load E/W.  Maybe I will load E/W for a while and see if there is a difference.


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## mellow (Jan 15, 2013)

Just remember the ticket to loading E/W is putting an air trench in the ash N/S down the middle.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 15, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> I have been loading N/S in this stove. Buck recommends you load E/W. Maybe I will load E/W for a while and see if there is a difference.


Huh. I figured this meant to load N/S, I don't know:
"_Manufacturer’s recommendation for peak performance and long catalyst life is to burn seasoned hardwood (wood_
_dried 6-12 month) and place wood from front to back position in the heater_."

Next load I take over there, I'm bringing a good bit of Pignut Hickory and BL. I'll try mixing that stuff in with the Black Oak and see if that stretches the length of time that the stove temp will stay over 300...


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## WoodpileOCD (Jan 15, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> I have been loading N/S in this stove. Buck recommends you load E/W. Maybe I will load E/W for a while and see if there is a difference.


Let us know if you see any difference.  I've never loaded anything but N/S because I don't like to have to think about what might fall out when I open the door or what might hit the glass.   Sometimes I will put a couple splits all the way in the back (one on top of the other) E/W and load the rest N/S.  I do this when I'm dealing with shorter splits that I get from scrounging already bucked wood.  I have found that the ones in the back usually have plenty left in them in the morning probably because of lack of air circulation back there against the wall.  Also it just seems so much easier to load N/S then trying to reach and push whole splits to the back.


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## clemsonfor (Jan 16, 2013)

WoodpileOCD said:


> Let us know if you see any difference. I've never loaded anything but N/S because I don't like to have to think about what might fall out when I open the door or what might hit the glass. Sometimes I will put a couple splits all the way in the back (one on top of the other) E/W and load the rest N/S. I do this when I'm dealing with shorter splits that I get from scrounging already bucked wood. I have found that the ones in the back usually have plenty left in them in the morning probably because of lack of air circulation back there against the wall. Also it just seems so much easier to load N/S then trying to reach and push whole splits to the back.


 I do the reverse of this. I will load splits NS to the back wall then cram what i can in the front EW. I usually get ones into the sides of the bays and then a few in the front. This is where i use thoe super short pieces or end cuts that i then split up. I usually only do this on really cold nites where i need plenty of heat and am going to run it hard. Other wise there is plenty of wood to get 12 hours out of it.  The wood in the front burns first and leaves good coals infront of the other wood.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I do the reverse of this. I will load splits NS to the back wall then cram what i can in the front EW.


Yeah, that's gotta burn the back of the load better. I've been mostly loading with a split or two across the back, or I'll shove excess coals back there. I _am _looking to increase output when it's super-cold out; Harder to heat the entire house with the stove not central to the floor plan. On an average night I get pretty good heat, and use any remaining partially-burned chunks to get the stove up to temp for the reload. I got 'er up and rockin' in about twenty minutes this AM...


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## clemsonfor (Jan 16, 2013)

My stove is on one side of my home as well. Its in a seperate room thats about as wide as the back of house with a door on each end of room. I have fans to push cold inthere. To make it worse the rooms away from the stove have no insulation except for ceiling.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2013)

Probably no insulation in the stove room here, either. All glass on three and a third walls (1/3-wall flanks a glassed-in porch.) The room _does_ have two doors, but I just have one desk fan blowing in at the bottom of one door. I want to get two low-speed fans that are small enough to fit under a chair and a couch so that I can move air into both doors. After the end of the season I need to pull the stove and get block-off insulation up in the smoke chamber. Kinda forgot about that when I moved the stove into position.   When I realized what I had (hadn't) done I didn't think it would be too big a deal, but now I want more output so I'm going back in over the summer.  I need more heat out of every hard-gotten stick of wood I put in there...


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## clemsonfor (Jan 16, 2013)

Well i do have insulation in the stove room walls as it was an addition at a later period.


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## whodaman (Jan 17, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> My stove is on one side of my home as well. Its in a seperate room thats about as wide as the back of house with a door on each end of room. I have fans to push cold inthere. To make it worse the rooms away from the stove have no insulation except for ceiling.


 
 Have you looked into insulating your walls with foam? I actually had a guy come out and quote to add foam into my already insulated walls and the price was not that bad at all.
It was actually cheaper than putting more in my attic. Just a thought. He quoted me around $1400 to insulate my entire ranch house of 1888 sq ft.


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## twobucks (Jan 19, 2013)

Talked to the Buck stove company. They've never heard of wood being too dry for a stove. Catalytics eat smoke.

Now on my 2nd buck 91. Moved. Left the first one.

Ran 14 hours on a small load. Curing the paint. I have a 24 foot chimney. Draws like champ. I expected 4 hours with the tiny amount of fuel. Loaded at 6 and ran till 8 am this morning. Coals and stove at 450-500.
Bucks a good stove and realistic in it's specs. Very happy with my second catalytic.


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## twobucks (Jan 19, 2013)

twobucks said:


> Talked to the Buck stove company. They've never heard of wood being too dry for a stove. Catalytics eat smoke.
> 
> Now on my 2nd buck 91. Moved. Left the first one.
> 
> ...


 
Get a good installer who knows his stuff. If the chimney is bad or the crown is cracked, they will let you know. AFI is good.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 19, 2013)

twobucks said:


> Talked to the Buck stove company. They've never heard of wood being too dry for a stove. Catalytics eat smoke.
> 
> Now on my 2nd buck 91. Moved. Left the first one.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forums, twobucks! Good username.   That's a good endorsement of the stove, if you went out and bought another one...
I called Buck to ask about the flue collar; Got transferred to a guy in the back who knew his stuff. How did you find their customer service to be?
What's your chimney setup? My MIL already had an 8" stainless liner on her old insert, so she was halfway there. 21' of insulated liner...draws great.
What's your house layout and how big a space are you heating? Stove centrally located in the floor plan?
I don't know how long you've been running the 91, but your input and comments are welcome on what's been said in this thread so far...
I'm growing attached to the 91...don't think I'll be leaving it if MIL moves. I'll find _somebody_ that can use it.


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## clemsonfor (Jan 19, 2013)

whodaman said:


> Have you looked into insulating your walls with foam? I actually had a guy come out and quote to add foam into my already insulated walls and the price was not that bad at all.
> It was actually cheaper than putting more in my attic. Just a thought. He quoted me around $1400 to insulate my entire ranch house of 1888 sq ft.


 I thought about it when I moved in which was the time as I was doing dry wall repair in about 1/3 of the area. Could not afford it then.  And now were settled I hate to think about a 4" hole every 16"  I also have a brick house so doing it from the outside I don't see as viable, and through the plate in the attic I don't see how they can logistically getinto that tiny part of the roof to drill those top plates?? I would love to do it though  Even if its piecemeal, say half the uninsulated walls then the other half if they don't gouge you for a small job??


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## David Tackett (Feb 1, 2013)

Well, I did the E/W for a couple of days, I will go back and continue doing N/S.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 1, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> Well, I did the E/W for a couple of days, I will go back and continue doing N/S.


What didn't you like about E-W compared to N-S?

The last couple of days I've loaded the stove my usual way. With the cat probe up to about 1000, down to 900 or so after loading, I'll leave the bypass open for a while to char the middle part of the load. Well, as soon as I close the bypass, the cat probe drops to under 700 and I'm seeing (and smelling) smoke out of the stack. At first I thought "Uh-oh, combustor fading." I've been putting Red Oak in there, and today when I re-opened the door, I heard hissing (no visible wet spots on the ends, sounded like an 18% hiss.)  This is dead standing (upper 20s MC when cut,) not split real big, split and stacked single-row since 5/11. Some of the same batch I burned earlier was doing OK but I seem to be into some slightly wetter stuff. I'll test some Maple and Hickory I have and see if it's lower MC. I have some two-year Ash so maybe I'll end up mixing in a few splits per load of the borderline Oak with drier stuff. Eventually, the Oak loads dry out and take off but I don't like waiting. I want a clean burn as quick as possible. Dratted Oak. I've got some stacked double-row, split bigger, on full pallets. Some was live blowdown White. How long do I have to wait on that stuff, five years?  Better get more dead Ash stacked now, and soft Maple for shoulder burns... Can't stop now if I want dry wood. With ten cords or better stacked, I was way ahead. Then I had to go and buy the Buck.  I need serious heat output over there, so I need dry wood. I still think the combustor might be a little weak, when I read others' accounts of how fast their cats get up to 1200 or more after closing the bypass. I would think that any excess moisture in the wood could inhibit this cat lighting off. May not affect a fresher cat as much...


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## David Tackett (Feb 1, 2013)

This is all my opinion of course, to each his own.  N/S is easier for me to load.  With the air flow of the stove being N/S I think the fire catches and burns quicker.  No chance of log rolling out onto glass.  Seemed like I could only get E/W up to 800-900 while N/S usually rides 1000-1100.  I wish I could get it up to 1300-1500, but I think either my wood is not dry enough or my cat is getting old or combo of both.  I am currently burning Locust, which should get up to a nice temp.


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## David Tackett (Feb 1, 2013)

Now, I have only have my 91 for a couple of months, is there something I can do with the air controls to get it hotter?  I just close down to 1/8 of an inch like the book states.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 1, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> Seemed like I could only get E/W up to 800-900 while N/S usually rides 1000-1100. I wish I could get it up to 1300-1500, but I think either my wood is not dry enough or my cat is getting old or combo of both. I am currently burning Locust, which should get up to a nice temp.


I think those two things might be keeping me from realizing max output, as well. I went ahead and ordered a new cat, so we'll see what that does. Now, I didn't drop the heat shield to have a look at the cat. Shoulda done that over that last warm stretch we had.  Hard to believe it could be plugged with ash after only a couple of months, but who knows? When they record readings on the 91, I'm seeing some 1400-1500s, maybe as some of the load dries out later in the burn?


David Tackett said:


> Now, I have only have my 91 for a couple of months, is there something I can do with the air controls to get it hotter? I just close down to 1/8 of an inch like the book states.


 I sometimes burn the Fv with the air open a little more, and a bit of flame in the box. That gets stove temps a little higher. I have to watch it to make sure the load doesn't take off a little more and get big flames, so that's something I do during the day when I could keep an eye on it. I think if my wood was totally dry, the load would have less tendency to take off from the wood drying out during the burn. When setting up an overnight burn, I tend to err on the side of caution. You could _try_ giving the 91a little more air. I think they recommend low air settings in the manual because that gives the most efficient burn and lowest wood consumption, but sometimes we just need a little more heat. Watch your cat temps, for sure... You might also experiment with balance between shotgun air and airwash air to get the load to burn differently??


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## WoodpileOCD (Feb 2, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> Now, I have only have my 91 for a couple of months, is there something I can do with the air controls to get it hotter? I just close down to 1/8 of an inch like the book states.


 
Dave, when I load up on hot coals, I open the right side air all the way and let er rip.  The left side shotgun pretty much stays closed all the time unless I'm starting with just a few coals or starting cold.   If  I'm loading with the cat above 500 and it hasn't dropped below that by the time I get the wood in, I close the door, reengage the cat and leave the air wide open.  If it has dropped below 500 I leave the bypass open.    Once the cat gets to 1000, I'll shut the air down to about half and let it settle down a little.  It usually then goes on to about 1500 to 1800 depending on how high I have the fan on.  Once it peaks there, I shut it down to about 1/8 to 1/4 and let it settle down again and then shut the air completely.  I have found that if I shut it all the way down too quickly, I get a lot of backpuffing explosions which send small amounts of smoke out past the door gasket by the handle side.  Not a lot but enough that I can smell it which I don't like.   (enjoy smelling smoke outside once in awhile but hate it inside).   
This is my third year with the 91 but first full year with the liner (which made a HUGE difference along with better wood) and I'm starting to feel like we're finally becoming partners.  I keep the beast fed and it keeps it's end of the bargain.  Fine tuning your procedure takes awhile and I'm sure I'm not there yet.


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## David Tackett (Feb 3, 2013)

WoodpileOCD said:


> Dave, when I load up on hot coals, I open the right side air all the way and let er rip. The left side shotgun pretty much stays closed all the time unless I'm starting with just a few coals or starting cold. If I'm loading with the cat above 500 and it hasn't dropped below that by the time I get the wood in, I close the door, reengage the cat and leave the air wide open. If it has dropped below 500 I leave the bypass open. Once the cat gets to 1000, I'll shut the air down to about half and let it settle down a little. It usually then goes on to about 1500 to 1800 depending on how high I have the fan on. Once it peaks there, I shut it down to about 1/8 to 1/4 and let it settle down again and then shut the air completely. I have found that if I shut it all the way down too quickly, I get a lot of backpuffing explosions which send small amounts of smoke out past the door gasket by the handle side. Not a lot but enough that I can smell it which I don't like. (enjoy smelling smoke outside once in awhile but hate it inside).
> This is my third year with the 91 but first full year with the liner (which made a HUGE difference along with better wood) and I'm starting to feel like we're finally becoming partners. I keep the beast fed and it keeps it's end of the bargain. Fine tuning your procedure takes awhile and I'm sure I'm not there yet.


 
Well, I will keep playing with it.  I got it up to 1500 today.  Just wish I could do it consistently.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 3, 2013)

David Tackett said:


> Well, I will keep playing with it. I got it up to 1500 today. Just wish I could do it consistently.





WoodpileOCD said:


> Dave, when I load up on hot coals, I open the right side air all the way and let er rip.


This may be the key. Wife was in town, so she loaded the stove. There were some split shapes left (which crumbled when she raked them to the front/middle. They were probably giving off blue flame, but she couldn't recall as she had also put a couple of splits on to bring up the temp for the reload. With the bypass open, probe temp went to 1140. She loaded up, got some flame in the middle with the shotgun air, and was off to the races. Probe got up around 1500, stove to 500, and then leveled off. 
The times lately when I had trouble getting to cat to take off, I had most of the coals in the middle, big wood on the sides. I loaded a couple small ones in the middle to get that area hot quickly, but put some bigger splits on the top of that. I gave it air, figuring that the heat from the flames would come out the back of the 16" splits and heat the cat area, but apparently that doesn't work. This AM I had coals in the middle but just small stuff on top, and got big flame coming up to the shield. Closed the bypass and the cat took off nicely to over 1000. Cut the air back, turned on the blower, and cat temp didn't fall much. I'll keep starting this way with big flame able to come out the top of the load unrestricted. Hope I didn't buy a cat for nothing but I'll put it in, and do expect to see improved performance. I like to have a backup cat around anyway...


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## Woody Stover (Feb 9, 2013)

OK, I put the new combustor in on Thursday...yep, the old one was tired. Glad I didn't spend my money unnecessarily.  I'm still going by the book and engaging when it's close to 700 on the probe and wow, she lights off pretty quick and no worries about a stall. I restart the blower at about 800, and see little drop in the probe temp. I'm seeing no smoke at about 900, vs. 1200 with the old cat. Neighbors will be happy.  I expect to get more heat as well, now that more smoke is being burned. I replaced the ash pan gasket several weeks back, hoping to stem the air coming up through the ash dump lid, but it slowly developed a similar gap where the ends of the rope gasket meet. I think with repeated contact with the pan housing, the strands at the rope ends loosen up. I ran a couple ideas by the folks at Buck, one being to fill in the gap with silicone. They emailed back almost immediately, saying 'Yes, that will help.' So far, customer support from Buck has been outstanding with quick email responses and informative answers to my questions. Anyway, I ended up using gasket cement to glue a small piece of rope into the gap. We'll see how long that holds up... I might also try replacing the rope with a flat gasket at some point. Anyway, the results are outstanding! The left side of the box still burns a _little_ faster than the right but there are some decent chunks remaining on the left after a 12-hr. burn. Before, there was nothing but ash over there. The load is burning more in the middle of the box instead of on the left with too much flame. The result has been a longer burn with good heat output after 12 hrs. 600 probe, 250 stove top and house temp a good bit higher. I haven't had to burn any sacrificial splits to get stove temp back up for the reload, just pull some chunks/split shapes forward and open the air a bit to get up around 700, then reload. I'm no longer concerned about the cat temp going high now that I've got better control of the air. I may adjust the air slider plates up to allow me to cut the air even more, if I desire.

I recommend that all Buck owners check for a gap at the ends of the ash pan gasket if they want to be able to run their stove slower. It's made a huge difference in my case. Not sure if other Buck models have a similar ash pan gasket?

I just saw that the door latch pawl(?) is too far back, and partially hitting the plate steel...easy fix by loosening the set screws (I mistakenly said it had a roll pin earlier.) Actually, one screw is missing and you can see the edge of its hole in the pic.






Now that I'm finally getting the stove set up right, I'm sure it's going to do everything I ask of it and it'll be much easier to run, to boot. I'm one happy camper, and lovin' this stove more all the time! 



BrowningBAR said:


> That's a little disappointing. I was really hoping that the big Buck would provide longer burns.


A revised burn-time report is forthcoming.


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## WoodpileOCD (Feb 10, 2013)

Good to hear you are getting the beast tamed and tuned.   I have never even had my ash drawer out so I will have to take a look at that.   I don't think you said but how hot is your cat running now.  Are you able to get it to the 1500 - 1800 range pretty easily now?  Also what kind of cat did you get and where?


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## Woody Stover (Feb 11, 2013)

WoodpileOCD said:


> Good to hear you are getting the beast tamed and tuned. I have never even had my ash drawer out so I will have to take a look at that. I don't think you said but how hot is your cat running now. Are you able to get it to the 1500 - 1800 range pretty easily now? Also what kind of cat did you get and where?


Yeah, I'm really pleased with the way it's going.
Like I said, there is still a little air coming in at the ash drop but nowhere _near _what it was. I cleaned the glass last night and only had a little brown haze in the lower corners this AM.  Contrast that to the previous clean left-side glass due to the ash pan leak inferno, and gunked-up lower right glass. Now that I'm getting a longer burn with stronger, more even heat output, I don't have to cram the box full. I don't have to push the coals to the back to make room for wood, I just heap 'em up in the middle, N-S. Then I can load the 16" splits further back, away from the glass. That may help keep it cleaner, I don't know. Just sealing the ash pan leak is getting more air coming in through the air wash, I'm sure. We had 69* in the furnace thermostat room, next to the stove room, this AM. No, it wasn't too cold last night, around 40, but the wind was pretty strong.
I never had a problem getting high cat temps. In fact, I was more worried about it going too high. I don't think that's going to be an issue any more, with more control over the air. The problem was getting the cat to take off with a new load. And even with the cat glowing away there was still some smoke out of the stack. Besides a tired cat, that have been partly due to too much air (cool ash drop air at that) moving the smoke too quickly through the cat and not giving it the time it needed. Hard to tell what actually happened since I made two changes at once (new cat, fixed air leak.) Highest cat temp I've seen with these changes has been 1200. Waiting for more recorded daytime readings to come in from further into the burn...
I may keep burning sacrificial splits to raise the stove temp if I need to. That way I can get big flame _and_ radiation against the walls of the box. Once you have 'er loaded up, radiation against the sides is limited. This AM, MIL had opened up the air a bit when she got up, and I was ready to load up as the probe was already around 700. By the time I had 800, cat was glowing and no smoke. 
The replacement cat is OE, Applied Ceramics from firecatcombustors.com, the site that AC directs you to. I will be starting a thread about that soon. 
Yep, I'm stoked about the situation now. I think I'll be able to get 12 hrs. of good heat on lesser fuel, like soft Maple. This would sure take the pressure off since I should be able to dry quite a bit of that this summer. Hopefully I can save the slower-drying high output woods for those colder-than-average nights. Once I get far enough ahead, it'll be a moot point and I'll burn whatever the hell I want. 
Gonna get cool this weekend; Might have to stuff 'er to the gills with Hickory and BL, and go for the Long March burn.


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## _CY_ (Apr 11, 2013)

just installed a used Buck 91 .. barely getting 1,000f degrees max after getting box good and hot before engaging cat.  just not putting out enough heat 

time for a new cat?  there's all sorts of instructions on the web, on how to clean your old cat... is it worth cleaning or just order a new one and be done?


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## mellow (Apr 11, 2013)

Where are you measuring that temp at?


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## _CY_ (Apr 12, 2013)

mellow said:


> Where are you measuring that temp at?


 
at the cat with thermometer next to damper handle. did get 91 up to 1,500f last night.. today could barely get it pass 800f ... thinking intake air dump is clogged inside.

took the cat off yesterday and made sure it nothing was plugging it up. a few cracks showing.


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## omnipotent (Nov 12, 2013)

Hey guys, well I got the Buck fired up again (in another thread I was contemplating getting a new one) but after reading these threads a fixing some air leaks, I'm now able to control the flame and no more run away burns....so ordered yet another CAT (last 2 were damaged due to high heat and flame impingement) so I will give it on more go before replacing unit.  Now  question....how in the heck do you see your CAT?  Maybe they changed designs (I don't know how old mine is, it was here 3 years ago, and I'm guessing he had it for 2-3 years before that.  With the heat sheild in place I don't see how you could see it....through the air wash holes?

Also, I read a lot about the blower and it affecting heat output....actuall cat probe heat....not sure how this would affect this since the blower is actually grabbing heat from the enclosure (around the enclosure I guess is a better way of saying it)...so not sure how that would change internal probe temp?

Lastly, I know everyoneis trying to get that heat up, but as someone who is on his 3rd Cat,I will tell you, I'm happy to burn in the 1200's and never get higher.

Well, another lastly....E-W vs N-S...I've done both, when I do E-W I rake all the coals to te front righ up to th air intake, then load the wood from the back stacked as high as it will go, then smaller in front and smaller still until it looks like a ramp of sorts.  The air wash has a natural flow from front to back, so the first log(s) light and then slowly as they burn to coals, light the logs behind it until it gets to he end.  The air wash helps to push the heat back and ignites the logs well.  This burn doesn't get as hot as N-S, but can definitely burn all night.

I use N-S when it's 30's out and need more heat, I rake all the coals to right side and load up from left to right, 2 rows high....this burns hotter and not quite as long, so it's all about how much heat is desired.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips....I might be able to save this old abused (by previous owner) Buck after all.....


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## pgmr (Nov 12, 2013)

_CY_ said:


> just installed a used Buck 91 .. barely getting 1,000f degrees max after getting box good and hot before engaging cat.  just not putting out enough heat
> 
> time for a new cat?  there's all sorts of instructions on the web, on how to clean your old cat... is it worth cleaning or just order a new one and be done?



I cleaned ours this year and it made a huge difference.  Used the hot vinegar and distilled water method.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 14, 2013)

omnipotent said:


> how in the heck do you see your CAT?  Maybe they changed designs (I don't know how old mine is, it was here 3 years ago, and I'm guessing he had it for 2-3 years before that.  With the heat sheild in place I don't see how you could see it....through the air wash holes?


I had forgotten about that, but yeah, I think if you look through the air wash holes you can see the glow reflecting from the top of the heat shield. I usually look through the bypass rod hole. It's hard to see, and you have to move your head around to get the right angle. My 91 is an '08. I don't think they have changed the design much over the years. That might be something to email them about....they've responded well to any questions I've had.



> Also, I read a lot about the blower and it affecting heat output....actuall cat probe heat....not sure how this would affect this since the blower is actually grabbing heat from the enclosure (around the enclosure I guess is a better way of saying it)...so not sure how that would change internal probe temp?


It _does _change the reading on the probe but I think conditions at the cat are still pretty much the same. Turning on the blower can drop the cat probe reading by 100 degrees or so.



> I know everyoneis trying to get that heat up, but as someone who is on his 3rd Cat,I will tell you, I'm happy to burn in the 1200's and never get higher.


Manual says the sweet spot is 1500-1600. You're really crankin' out the BTUs then. I've got some bigger splits now, and I'm really not too concerned that the cat is going to go high (I try to get them to record some readings further into the burn, when I'm not there, but that's hit and miss.) Actually, I'm more worried about a crash from not letting the reload get burning fully enough after closing the bypass and before cutting the air to the cruise setting. I had one crash when I tried to leave too soon the other day. I saw the probe temp rising from 900 and thought it was lit off, but apparently not. When I went back to load for the evening, I saw a recorded reading of 600, a couple hours into the burn. The temp on the probe _will_ rise even when the cat isn't lit, if you have flame in the box. Obviously this is the case, since the probe can be rising even if the cat isn't engaged. After I close the bypass and burn more flames for a while, then close the bypass and cut the air, if I see the probe rising over 1000 at a pretty rapid clip, I'm pretty sure it's lit off, even if I don't see it glowing yet. You can also sometimes hear a knocking sound, which I think is the cat frame expanding in relation to the stove top which it's bolted to.



> E-W vs N-S...I've done both, when I do E-W I rake all the coals to te front righ up to th air intake, then load the wood from the back stacked as high as it will go, then smaller in front and smaller still until it looks like a ramp of sorts.  The air wash has a natural flow from front to back, so the first log(s) light and then slowly as they burn to coals, light the logs behind it until it gets to he end.  The air wash helps to push the heat back and ignites the logs well.  This burn doesn't get as hot as N-S, but can definitely burn all night.


I haven't burned N-S much at all; I'm gonna have to play with that a bit. I can generally get twelve hours, even on a load of soft Maple, Cherry etc. Heat is dropping below 200 quicker than with an Ash or Oak load, though....



> I might be able to save this old abused (by previous owner) Buck after all.....


Good on ya! You're a tinkerer after my own heart. 

So far, burning this stove has been easier this season, and I think I may be getting a handle on it.   Locust Post has a new 91 this season and things are going well for him. He says he can get quick light-off at lower temps than I usually attempt, so maybe it's a difference in our setups, fuel or whatever....


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Ok, so new "issue"....I'm getting a good burn rate (8 hours +) and when I come down in the morning, cat probe is still usually ~800 or so.  Issue is I'm getting a lot of "coal"...not hot coals for relighting or heating purposes, but wood that didn't burn through and literally turns to coal.  I feel like I might need more air to get a complete burn through, but then I'm worried about the fire running off in the middle of the night and burning the load to quick, or getting too hot when nobody is around to watch it.

I've been dialing down the shotgun all the way closed and leaving the Air Wash (what a joke that term is BTW), about an 1/8 to 1/4 in (really hard to measure :D )....so what's others thoughts...are you getting complete burn through and just soft white ash or are you also getting coal left in the morning?


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## mellow (Nov 14, 2013)

I get chunks toward the rear of the stove as well,  but usually I have enough hot coals back there to rake forward and start the fire going again.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

If your getting the charcoal hunks of wood that are unburned your draft is not good enough or the air is cut to low.  

I get a few pieces  toward the front if I cram too much up front in the bay windows. It burns back and leaves the ends toward the front without coals to burn them. But in the middle or rear the only charcoal I get is small and usually sparse.


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks for that...usually the "coal" is on the left side of the box (I load N-S) since I rake the coals to the right side and burn rigth to left.  I'm gonna give it a bit more air tonight and see what happens.


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Alright, another question....in noting the "glow of the catalyst" I was able to see it last night, well more actually the glow reflection from the heat pan...anyway, today I loaded it with a couple of decent splits, got the cat probe temp to 600, closed the bypass and left the air wide open.  Temp got to 800-850 and stayed there....there was no "glow" from the cat and temp never got any hotter even though both primary and secondary air was wide open.  This is a brand new cat, just installed and burning year old (split & stacked for a year) Oak....same wood I burned last night, so not sure why Cat isn't lighting off and increasing heat exponentially at this point.

thoughts?


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

Cat does not always glow. Will only glow when there is lots off off gassing. You can glow one night with probe at 1200 and another night??  Just the behavior of it. I think applied ceramics even notes this in liturature.  

When I burn I rake coals forward as much a possible. I also burn north to south.

For the record I have a high valley 2500 but looks and in design is very similar to a buck 91.


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Yeah not worried too much about the glow but more about the temp...it's been 2 hours sitting at 850, just won't climb any higher.  Cat must be engaged as there is no visible smoke from chimney.  I shut down the air controls to get a nice glowing coal bed and blue flame, but temp still hovering around 850.  Don't recall this in past years....possible the wood isn't as seasoned as it should be, but still would expect the cat to take off after an hour or two sitting in the 850's.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

850 is active. I'd say anything above about 700 depending upon condition of the cat is active.  But with only a few splits there is limited smoke to make it climb so high as well is there is not enough to glow red. Its eating if u have no black or blue smoke and its sitting at 850 with very minimal flames.

I changed mine this season as I had them fail last year. I think I burned most. Of last year with failed or partially functioning cats. I would get the right temps but still have smoke and I creosoted like crazy!!


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## Woody Stover (Nov 14, 2013)

When I go back over there after ~12 hrs, depending on how much wood I loaded, I'll have a varying amount of coals, but the wood is still burning. Stove temp might be 200-400. I think most of the unburned stuff would eventually burn, but the stove wouldn't be putting out the heat I need at that point. When I let the stove burn out, I may have a few unburned chunks but not too much. If I opened up the air at the end, it would all burn down. Cruise air setting for me has been shotgun closed, airwash slider out about 1/2" or so. When loading, I put the coals in the center and load wood on the sides, and a couple of smaller splits partially covering the coals. When I come back to reload, the left side is usually ashes, which I attribute to the ash dump leaking a bit of air. I find it strange that you have unburned wood on the left side, but maybe that's due to an air leak somewhere from the over-firing, that feeds the right side of the box more air. I may have an intact split still burning on the right side. I pull that to the center, throw on a small split or two, and open the air to get some flame and bring the probe back up to 800+. I find that if I get a good amount of flame, with the smallest possible amount of air, temps come up the quickest. Then I load, leave the bypass open and burn in the load (again, flame with the least amount of air.) Around 850-900, and the load burning decently, I close the bypass (manual says 700-900 before closing the bypass, but some have reported being able to light off at lower temps.)


omnipotent said:


> today I loaded it with a couple of decent splits, got the cat probe temp to 600, closed the bypass and left the air wide open.  Temp got to 800-850 and stayed there....there was no "glow" from the cat and temp never got any hotter even though both primary and secondary air was wide open.  This is a brand new cat, just installed and burning year old (split & stacked for a year) Oak....same wood I burned last night, so not sure why Cat isn't lighting off and increasing heat exponentially at this point.


The cat wasn't lit, and the increase in temp was due to the heat from the wood burning in the box.
Cats need the "three Ts;" Temp, Turbulence (provided by the expanded-metal screen below the cat,) and *Time*. If you have the air open too far and the cat isn't hot enough, smoke will get pulled quickly through the cat before it has a chance to burn in there. When closing the bypass, I'll let some flame burn for a few minutes but then I'll start cutting the air close to my cruise air setting. Less air=less flame=more smoke for the cat and more "Time" in the cat. When I see that probe temp rising over 1000, I'm pretty sure it's lit.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 14, 2013)

omnipotent said:


> Yeah not worried too much about the glow but more about the temp...it's been 2 hours sitting at 850, just won't climb any higher.  Cat must be engaged as there is no visible smoke from chimney.  I shut down the air controls to get a nice glowing coal bed and blue flame, but temp still hovering around 850.  Don't recall this in past years....possible the wood isn't as seasoned as it should be, but still would expect the cat to take off after an hour or two sitting in the 850's.





clemsonfor said:


> 850 is active. I'd say anything above about 700 depending upon condition of the cat is active.  But with only a few splits there is limited smoke to make it climb so high as well is there is not enough to glow red. Its eating if u have no black or blue smoke and its sitting at 850 with very minimal flames.


Agree with clem, you only loaded "a couple of splits," therefore not a lot of smoke for the cat to get really hot.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 14, 2013)

If I was with the stove all the time, I would burn full loads (which I do anyway) but open up the air toward the end of the burn to burn down the coals and slower-burning chunks, and get more heat off the stove at the end of the burn. Sometimes I show up to load and I've got a ton of coals in there. I just run a shovel under them and try to get the fine ash off the bottom, roll off any big coals, and down the ash dump it goes. That way I can make a bit more room for wood in there. Plus, when I throw a coupe of small splits on to bring up the temp, the coals will burn down further.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

I use to, on a hot reload,  load wood and char the load good. Then shut bypass and slowly reduce air till cruise.  But I'd have wild flames and a draft like a freight train was in my chimney!!  I was worried about flame impingement with new cats in this season,  even though they sit in a trough that is covered from the bottom I think it was pulling them in through the sides.  NOW I load stove,  hot reload,  and reduce air to pretty much cruise level an then throw bypass so that I don't have giant flames washi g my cats.  Those things are $197 a pair I'm gonna take care of them. Also its usually plenty hot buff in there and plenty of smoke for ligjtoff   my manual says 500f but fire at says like 20-30 mins of 600f I think?


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> If I was with the stove all the time, I would burn full loads (which I do anyway) but open up the air toward the end of the burn to burn down the coals and slower-burning chunks, and get more heat off the stove at the end of the burn. Sometimes I show up to load and I've got a ton of coals in there. I just run a shovel under them and try to get the fine ash off the bottom, roll off any big coals, and down the ash dump it goes. That way I can make a bit more room for wood in there. Plus, when I throw a coupe of small splits on to bring up the temp, the coals will burn down further.


I do this I will cut the air up so that I can get more heat and to burn that coal.  This is usually in the afternoon when I return home.


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## mellow (Nov 14, 2013)

I am noticing mine are liking to be around 900 before I can shut it down and it will cruise,  last year I could shut down sooner.  However I just did start burning Tuesday night so only got 2 days under my belt for this season.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

Been burning g since Friday. And going 24/7 even though in sc. I have a leaky old, large house and we just brought home our new baby so I want it warm, like 72 ish for him . He is staying far from stove room so I am burning loads I usually would not burn,  I don't like to sleeo at 71 but he does I guess. I'd rather him be at 69 or 68 but wife wants warmer.  We use to never sleep that warm.  And 2 night ago it was 26 here and last night was 23f.


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Ok...so a couple of things...I did confirm with bypass open smoke was coming out....not a lot, but visible.  When I closed the damper, Cat probe at ~800 smoke was gone meaning Cat was doing it's job.  So came back in and added a couple of more pieces of wood to the box (hot reload I guess you could say) the new wood caught right away, and within a few minutes wood was burning well and temps going to ~1000.  Closed down the primary air and reduced the secondary to about 1/8....temp is holding ~1100.  Mind you this is only with 4 splits, 2 of which had been charred pretty good, 2 fresh splits and a hot bed of coals from a previous split.  So I think things are working OK....just thought the cat probe would get hotter once it took off, even though there wasn't as much wood (smoke) in the box...guess I was wrong :D


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

You were. Wrong . Sounds as if ur running right


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Cats need the "three Ts;" Temp, Turbulence (provided by the expanded-metal screen below the cat,) and *Time*. If you have the air open too far and the cat isn't hot enough, smoke will get pulled quickly through the cat before it has a chance to burn in there. When closing the bypass, I'll let some flame burn for a few minutes but then I'll start cutting the air close to my cruise air setting. Less air=less flame=more smoke for the cat and more "Time" in the cat. When I see that probe temp rising over 1000, I'm pretty sure it's lit.


 
So this is interesting...the turbulence part....just to make sure I'm good here, when you put the metal screen into the bottom of the housing, you just let it sit as close to flush on the bottom as possible, right?  Mine is a little curved on the sides so it doesn't sit flush, but still sits near the bottom.  The Cat is then loaded on top of that and rests on the "pegs" within the housing.

Also, do you put any gasket around the "outside" of the cat steel container?  Meaning the Cat comes in a steal container and has a gasket inside the steal container, but when I put the cat into the housing, there is space all the way around the cat, not a big space mind you, but a space none the less.  I'm thinking maybe a gasket should be placed there as well to force all smoke to go through the cat.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 14, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I don't like to sleeo at 71 but he does I guess. I'd rather him be at 69 or 68 but wife wants warmer.


Sounds like you're out-numbered.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

A few things. I don't have a Buck so I don't uave a screen thing. And yes the cat should be wrapped in a thin 2" wide gasket.  This is called like cat gasket.  You wrap it around cat then wrap with masking tape then slide in housing.

Here is how mine is done.  I also put flat door glass gasket around the outside of the flange where it meets the stove so that there is no way the smoke will sneak around and is forced thru the cats.


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## omnipotent (Nov 14, 2013)

So this is my cat, you can see the cat is wrapped and then there is a steel can. This whole "can" then goes into a housing similar to yours. The question is should a gasket also be wrapped around the can....

Here is a pic, hope it works.


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## clemsonfor (Nov 14, 2013)

I would. But the gasket expands so if its snug it will fit tight,  but if loose I would put gasket around the whole thing so air can't bypass it.  Applied ceramics will tell you call and talk to mike p.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 15, 2013)

omnipotent said:


> Mine is a little curved on the sides so it doesn't sit flush, but still sits near the bottom.


That's fine. I think you can bend the screen a bit as well, but it is no doubt doing its job as is.



> do you put any gasket around the "outside" of the cat steel container?


Yes, but as I remember, it was a real tight fit; The gasket would stick to the rough cast housing sides, and the slick steel 'can' wanted to slip out of the gasket.  I think the sides of the housing tapered in from top to bottom. Wrap the gasket real tight around the can, then tape the end with masking tape.


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## omnipotent (Nov 15, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Yes, but as I remember, it was a real tight fit; The gasket would stick to the rough cast housing sides, and the slick steel 'can' wanted to slip out of the gasket.  I think the sides of the housing tapered in from top to bottom. Wrap the gasket real tight around the can, then tape the end with masking tape.


 
Yeah so had some extra gasket (the right kind) laying around and tried to wrap the can....everytime I slid it into the housing it would come up an inch or so...could never get it to sit flush...so after pulling and taping and pulling and breaking the gasket I just left it off.  Guess I need to go back now and try putting it in again....great!


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## clemsonfor (Nov 15, 2013)

Wrap the whole thing with tape.


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## _CY_ (Dec 4, 2013)

just finished installing a stainless steel 8in liner for Buck 91 .. the big cat is drawing excellent. runs completely different .. putting out LOTS of heat!


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## _CY_ (Dec 5, 2013)

ended up with a huge bed of coals, they are getting in the way .. what's the best way to burn off bed of coals?


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## clemsonfor (Dec 5, 2013)

Open the air all the way up as well as bypass. They will be gone in an hour


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## _CY_ (Dec 5, 2013)

ok .. both opened wide .. thanks,


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## Jacyte (Jan 8, 2015)

I have been reading this forum since deciding to get a wood stove for my raised ranch in CT. I ended up with a High Valley 2500 from craigslist in OK shape for $600. I lined my chimney with insulated duraliner oval "8" and left a massive 38" section exposed out of the top (out of stock on shorter sections). I learned basically everything I know about stoves from this forum and especially this thread. I got the stove up and running quickly with great success heating the 1200+sqft upper living area in my home to nearly 80º at 30º outside temps and 75º at 10-20º. I look forward to contributing anything I can and learning everything I can from you guys.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2015)

Jacyte said:


> I have been reading this forum since deciding to get a wood stove for my raised ranch in CT. I ended up with a High Valley 2500 from craigslist in OK shape for $600...I got the stove up and running quickly with great success heating


Welcome.  Nice find on the stove, and I'm glad it's working well for you. I believe it's similar to the Buck.  Frankly, I'm surprised that this thread didn't scare you away.  I kinda feel bad about it now because looking back on it, it all seems so simple. But I had some problems figuring out the stove...sometimes I ain't too quick on the uptake.  I've been thinking of posting another "final, bottom line" thread and will do it soon. Even though my gaskets seemed pretty good and passed the "dollar-bill test," I guess they weren't that great. I replace all the gaskets a few months back; Door, door glass, ash pan, bay windows. Now I have good control of the air entering the stove and no longer worry about the cat going high. The ash pan gasket doesn't have a groove, and you have to make sure it's high enough across the top, to get a good seal. Glowing coals over the ash dump lid, indicating air entering there, are virtually non-existent. The door glass stays very clean except a little bit in the lower corners. I've gotten pretty good at establishing new loads and getting the stove to do what I want. Here it is in a nutshell if you're interested, post #8. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/help-me-help-a-friend.138781/


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2015)

It's a coincidence that you happened to post on this thread. I was just looking at it earlier to try to grab some pics to transfer to the thread linked above. That didn't work for me, though. Then I see this thread at the top of the forum and I'm thinking "WTH, did I press a wrong button??"


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## Jacyte (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks. I was a little intimidated by the entire thing at first but as this thread developed I gained confidence. I have almost all of the same issues as you did when it comes to burn times. I am getting 8 hours with medium splits N/S tossed in haphazardly to capacity. Better wood and better loading can probably help a lot. My ash pan is definitely leaking air and as a temporary fix I used 300º aluminum tape around the edges until I can find a better way to seal it.  With a laser probe I measure temps around 220-250 at the ash pan so the tape should be OK for a little. Next I have to figure a way to tighten up the sliders for the primary and 2ndary air. They are not quite the same design as the buck stoves and are actually inside small enclosures and V shaped.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 8, 2015)

Jacyte said:


> am getting 8 hours with medium splits N/S tossed in haphazardly to capacity. Better wood and better loading can probably help a lot.


Even though my splits are only 16", I'm pretty sure I could still have 200 stove temp at 16 hrs. on primo wood. I generally mix in some soft Maple or Cherry so the coals will be will be manageable for my 12-hr loads. I put those on the sides, figuring they will gas faster at the end of the load, and hold better stove temp. 





> My ash pan is definitely leaking air and as a temporary fix I used 300º aluminum tape around the edges until I can find a better way to seal it.  With a laser probe I measure temps around 220-250 at the ash pan so the tape should be OK for a little.


Can you post a pic of your ash pan and gasket? Maybe you saw a pic of the Buck and can say if they are pretty similar?





> Next I have to figure a way to tighten up the sliders for the primary and 2ndary air. They are not quite the same design as the buck stoves and are actually inside small enclosures and V shaped.


Get a pic of those while you're at it...


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## Jacyte (Jan 8, 2015)

I can't get a picture of the ash pan gasket but it is very similar to the buck 91. Here is the right side primary slider. The blower is under the left side. Btw I am burning 100% sugar maple 3 year split and always kept dry


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