# heating with a wood cook stove??



## paddler (Mar 4, 2018)

hey folks, i've been heating our place with a wood stove for years. we have recently been talking about swapping the wood stove out for a wood fired cook stove. has anyone had any experience with using one for a primary heater? Could we expect a large wood cook stove to heat as effectively as wood stove?


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 4, 2018)

Downside would be it would not burn the smoke like a modern Cat or EPA certified burn tube wood stove. That's may be deal breaker for some plus NO fire show.


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## bholler (Mar 4, 2018)

paddler said:


> hey folks, i've been heating our place with a wood stove for years. we have recently been talking about swapping the wood stove out for a wood fired cook stove. has anyone had any experience with using one for a primary heater? Could we expect a large wood cook stove to heat as effectively as wood stove?


That depends on the stove you have and the cook stove you are replacing it with bit in general no


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## Allagash350 (Mar 4, 2018)

I mean we used one when I was a kid but also had a wood furnace. They don’t usually have a huge firebox, and aren’t super efficient, but they do throw some heat. 
Maybe you could make some sort of oven to place on top of your current stove instead


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## diverscale (Mar 4, 2018)

visit http://www.jaroby.com/en/produits.php?cat=15&sec=1

Those wood cook stoves are EPA certified, some even having higher efficiency than many mainstream EPA woodstoves on the market. Those could heat your home as well as a normal wood stove per the numbers. I do not own one, but I do find them very attractive.


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## jetsam (Mar 4, 2018)

diverscale said:


> visit http://www.jaroby.com/en/produits.php?cat=15&sec=1
> 
> Those wood cook stoves are EPA certified, some even having higher efficiency than many mainstream EPA woodstoves on the market. Those could heat your home as well as a normal wood stove per the numbers. I do not own one, but I do find them very attractive.




Those things are nuts!  Even the biggest ones are only a medium sized woodstove, but they look like they'd be good cookers and heaters 3 months a year, and passable heaters for shoulder season. I guess you can use all your charcoal from the winter to BBQ outside all summer, because you will NOT want to use the stove! 





Bet they're not cheap, but they sure look cool.


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## weatherguy (Mar 5, 2018)

Depends on the size of your house, insulation, climate etc. Could be done, has been done but depends.


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## Texas123 (Mar 5, 2018)

Does anyone know of a brand of rear vented cook-stove? Thank you in advance.


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## Happy Stacker (Mar 5, 2018)

Texas123 said:


> Does anyone know of a brand of rear vented cook-stove? Thank you in advance.


https://cookstoves.net/de-manincor-cookstoves/


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## SteveKG (Mar 5, 2018)

We have a house with a Woodstock soapstone at one end and an Aga cookstove [see avatar] at the other, in the kitchen. The cookstove stays very warm, after the fire dies out, all night. The kitchen won't be "toasty" next a.m., but it won't be cold. We use the cookstove every day for heat in the winter. No, it isn't a catalytic, but it is an "air-tight," and the firebox is not far off from the Woodstock's in cubic inches. Might be about the same, I have never measured it for that purpose. We had three other cookstoves over the years, and two of them had tiny fireboxes, the other one had a large one but a very small oven. So some cookstoves have large fireboxes, large ovens [ours has two ovens], and can burn for hours on one load. The cookstove we have heats up about as fast as the Woodstock, for comparison. By "heats up," I mean it is putting out welcome heat in about the same time after lighting off the fire.

What you need to consider is how long the cookstove will remain hot. They are large appliances of iron and/or steel and, once hot, remain so for hours. This is good in colder climes, not so great in areas where you only want to knock off a chill in the morning and that's all.

By the way, there is no way our cookstove is as efficient burning the wood as the catalytic Woodstock soapstone, but it is pretty decent at it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 5, 2018)

Id go for the one pictured .Probably between 5 and 10 K . looks fantastic!


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## Joyboy (May 12, 2018)

There are a wide variety of cookstove designs.  Some of the Amish cookstoves have a large fire box and put out lots of heat. I recently bought an Esse cook stove with a small fire box that puts out little heat but is a very efficient cooker. It might heat 100’ with the lids closed or 400 to 600’ with them opened. It is insulated and designed to cook on all year. It has two catylitic combusters in it so when it’s up to temp and cruising you can’t see any any smoke at all. Zero. It is very efficient.


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## kennyp2339 (May 12, 2018)

Choose a stove that doesn't need to be torn apart to much when doing regular cleaning and maintenance.


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## Alpine1 (May 13, 2018)

We have a long tradition of heating with cook stoves here (in fact, we own this: https://www.lanordica-extraflame.com/en/products/woodburning-cookers/termosuprema-compact-dsa). 
Check De Manincor, Thermorossi or La Nordica-extraflame, Rizzoli cucine, Cadel Srl to see some. All have secondary burn and some reach more than 80% efficiency. 
BUT always remember that a wood cooker is engineered for cooking rather than heating so: will a cook stove warm up your space? Of course yes, but seldom as efficiently as a wood stove does.


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## coaly (May 13, 2018)

The Kitchen Queen 480 is our only heat source.
We heat just under 2000 sf. in NEPA, it is capable of heating 3000 sf.
Use the search feature at top right with my user name and Kitchen Queen key words for details of how we use it.
The main reason we went with that stove is the circulating direction around oven stays cleaner under oven and it has the largest stainless water heating tank at 25 gallons. They are also built for summer use with a raised summer grate for stove top cooking which doesn't heat the oven or overheat the house. I added a thermostat, but they are now available with one as well as glass firebox door.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/kitchen-queen-cookstove-update.137448/#post-1846902


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## ToltingColtAcres (May 16, 2018)

I just use cast iron cookware, and one of these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009PURJA/?tag=hearthamazon-20) on top of my existing wood stove.


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## coaly (May 18, 2018)

ToltingColtAcres said:


> I just use cast iron cookware, and one of these (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009PURJA/?tag=hearthamazon-20) on top of my existing wood stove.



No comparison;





Plus all the hot water you need;




We just went through 3 days without power due to severe storms here and was able to run a generator 3 hours daily to keep the fridge cold
and was able to cook on top and open the upper chimney outlet to prevent the stove from heating the house. This cookstove has an opening from firebox directly into chimney for starting, so it eliminates resistance from firebox to chimney. When closed the exhaust exits across stove top. So for summer use, you install a raised summer grate so the flames from a small fire are directly on pan bottoms, and when done cooking, open the vent into chimney to prevent unwanted heat. Cooking on top of a solid top wood stove is like a simmer burner. Removing a lid, you place the pan over firebox for direct contact with flame and they cook faster than a gas range. This is how you can do a massive amount of canning with this range. Most competing Amish brands use gauge metal for range and firebox. This is one of the few made of 1/4 inch steel plate. It is also much heavier. The gauge metal ranges buckle and warp when doing lots of canning. But I am referring to Amish families bringing their goods and doing an all night canning session. This stove will handle it year after year with no damage. With a cook stove you can't control the heat like a gas or electric range, you control heat by moving pots and pans around. With lid (eye) in place it is like a regular wood stove, then you move pans farther over the oven for cooler areas and far right for simmer.
The oven in a cook stove is sealed when closed, so it doesn't use air currents inside like stove top ovens and ranges. It doesn't dry out meats and is difficult to burn things in since it is a very moist heat. To prevent building up pressure when heated, there is a very small vent hole into chimney outlet, and that is the reason you could smell what was in the oven cooking outside. The first thing you learn is when using the oven for meats, the door will be wet when you open it, so have towels on the floor to catch the condensation that drips off the inside of door. All regular ovens dry food out by air circulation compared to a cook stove oven. It is very hard to brown a casserole with so much moisture present, even at higher cooking temperatures. It simply cooks quicker. With oven circulation "on" expect hotter oven temps than stack temp. So 300* surface temp on pipe = 600* internal pipe temp as well as 600* oven. The oven thermometer goes to 1000*f. The oven stays about 300* f without turning it on, so it's always ready. Leaving the oven door open at night increases heating capacity, but we learned NOT to open oven door until it is up to temp since it extracts too much heat and requires more frequent cleaning around oven. It always has a small amount of circulation around oven, so it is pre-heated and ready to turn on when you have a good fire and draft for oven cooking. We thought it would be a huge learning process, but we learned it very quickly.

We had our Fisher stoves in the middle of kitchen and couldn't do anything near what a true cook stove does. We use our antique stove top ovens for brad boxes now. They work great for storing homemade baked goods when not in use.


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## Wolf1022008 (May 26, 2018)

The stove is the heco 520 I highly recommend it heats the house better than the regular gas furnace and I mean the whole house


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## coaly (May 26, 2018)

Wolf1022008 said:


> The stove is the heco 520 I highly recommend it heats the house better than the regular gas furnace and I mean the whole house



I'm glad I found someone with this cook stove.

Can you tell me with the smoke path the normal circulation from top, down side, across bottom, and up the back......Does the Heco have constant circulation or does it stop completely when oven control is closed? I realize the Heco is cleaner burning with secondary tubes and baffle. But the Queen has a certain amount of circulation around oven constantly which keeps it around 300* and ready to use anytime during winter. Leaving the oven door cracked overnight allows more heat into building increasing the heating area which is what the original poster questioned.

I guess my question is how can you cook fast on a cook top with baffles AND without removable eyes?
The ONLY thing we desire in the Queen is different size eyes called a "nest" that you remove a small center one for direct heat on small pans or tea kettle and can remove the rings making a larger open area under pans. I couldn't imagine heating the entire cook top (and house) to cook breakfast every morning.
With no removable lids, have you tried a Wok or round bottom pot for stir fry? I don't see how this stove could do that.

Also are the door gaskets glued in place the conventional way?

Edit; I found the gaskets are the Amish type that fold and insert without cement. It is actually an Amish built Breeo product from Lancaster PA. Which is a VERY close copy of the Kitchen Queen.


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## Wolf1022008 (May 27, 2018)

coaly said:


> I'm glad I found someone with this cook stove.
> 
> Can you tell me with the smoke path the normal circulation from top, down side, across bottom, and up the back......Does the Heco have constant circulation or does it stop completely when oven control is closed? I realize the Heco is cleaner burning with secondary tubes and baffle. But the Queen has a certain amount of circulation around oven constantly which keeps it around 300* and ready to use anytime during winter. Leaving the oven door cracked overnight allows more heat into building increasing the heating area which is what the original poster questioned.
> 
> ...


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## Wolf1022008 (May 27, 2018)

When baking the smoke goes down around under the oven and then out the top when you're not baking it goes to the left of the baffle and right off the top the left side of the cooktop stays in about seven hundred degrees so it cooks very well. The oven stays at about 300 350 degrees. The heco has a lot of upgrades that the kitchen Queen does it have like the way it sucks air up from the floor and pushes it out the vents on the stove to heat the house is very nice. The thermostatic draft control on the back is also a really nice upgrade. I like being able to completely take the cooktop off of the stove when I want to clean it. The airwash on the stove is awesome and the size of the glass doors is great too. Also I was able to get my heco from an Amish dealer here in Wisconsin for 3000 bucks which is a lot cheaper than what woody sells his for and cheaper than the kitchen Queen too.


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## Wolf1022008 (May 27, 2018)

Wolf1022008 said:


> When baking the smoke goes down around under the oven and then out the top when you're not baking it goes to the left of the baffle and right off the top the left side of the cooktop stays in about seven hundred degrees so it cooks very well. The oven stays at about 300 350 degrees. The heco has a lot of upgrades that the kitchen Queen does it have like the way it sucks air up from the floor and pushes it out the vents on the stove to heat the house is very nice. The thermostatic draft control on the back is also a really nice upgrade. I like being able to completely take the cooktop off of the stove when I want to clean it. The airwash on the stove is awesome and the size of the glass doors is great too. Also I was able to get my heco from an Amish dealer here in Wisconsin for 3000 bucks which is a lot cheaper than what woody sells his for and cheaper than the kitchen Queen too.


The heco is extremely easy to control 2 you leave the air wash completely open if your burning wood and you turn the thermostatic draft control to the number you want and that's it


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## Seasoned Oak (May 27, 2018)

Might be a good idea in winter , but in summer a wood fire to cook is better outdoors. We dont even use our electric stove in summer very much. use a variety of outdoor grills.


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## coaly (May 27, 2018)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Might be a good idea in winter , but in summer a wood fire to cook is better outdoors. We dont even use our electric stove in summer very much. use a variety of outdoor grills.



Wolf and Seasoned Oak;
We have a summer grate for the Kitchen Queen that adds little to no heat to the inside of house all summer.
In the morning we get eggs and the meat ready, usually scrapple, and remove lid over firebox. Dump a small waste basket of paper/ cardboard through the top. Add a few small pieces of kindling and open chimney vent that allows heat directly up chimney. Have the pan ready and light the fire on the raised grate. As it flames, the pan is the lid directly over flames. We like the non-stick aluminum flat griddle by All-Clad. Be ready to add food and keep it moving because it cooks fast. We set a Chinese type tea pot on top for 2 cups and when done leave chimney vent open and open air intake fully. This type cooking is faster than any electric stove top and hotter than a residential gas stove top burner. We have a commercial Garland gas range with star burners that burns twice as hot as a residential range and it is about as quick cooking on either here. We prefer wood for the stove top and only use gas in the summer for oven.*** If you open kitchen windows when cooler outside than inside, as the chimney cools, the draft through open intake (or firebox door) continues to draw outdoor air into the house until draft stops. This takes more heat out of the house than the cooking created.*** This is the same principal as using a fireplace to COOL a space. Open windows and burn paper/ cardboard to heat chimney. The rising hot gasses create enough low pressure in the house to allow more cooler outdoor air in than the heat that radiates inside. 

I don't see how you could possibly do all that without removable lids. A wok also fits into the hole over firebox for stir fry. I'd estimate between 50,000 and 70,000 BTU wok burner, and I'm a retired gas man that maintains a Chinese Buffet so I'm familiar with setting up their jet wok burners from 80 to 100,000 BTU.

Our Queen is very easy to control as well, and I thought there would be a learning curve to cook and bake, but it was very easily learned. I added a thermostat as well on the back years ago which is the same design as used on the Heco today.




Look familiar? I designed it after having a talk with Duane the KQ builder. It has been in use for quite some time in the Amish community.

The Queen has the same air vents on the sides for circulation that work well, and we prefer a solid door over glass due to running much cooler. The Queen has a inner baffle plate on inside of door so the incoming air keeps the door cool. You can stand in front of it without roasting your legs. I don't see how you could stand in front of a glass door canning for hours. Adding glass doors to a stove that was purpose built takes away from the original purpose. They were not built to look pretty, much of the Amish religion being "plain" and a more complex term, the rejection of hochmut or not being prideful of oneself or the things we are a steward of while we are here. So the local Bishop agrees with ministers of an area, which products their church district will allow. (such as all the same color silo, buggy, or clothes) This alleviates all competition between anyone having anything "better" than the other, so the appliance that gets the vote is the one approved for the church body to use. When an Englisher (non Amish) makes a suggestion to an Amish company to make changes or do something for looks, there is a lot more to making a change than it appears. A glass door for instance is deemed to be useful to see the fire. If it wasn't for practical purposes, it would be voted down, and you would never see the change. So if you want Amish quality, you will end up with a utilitarian design with nothing fancy.

More info for the original poster asking about area heating; We have the 25 gallon stainless water heating tank on the back and it is advisable NOT to install the stainless water coil in firebox to help heat the water tank. It simply makes too much hot water causing steam and the vented cistern creates too much water vapor in the home. The water tank heats plenty using the edge of stove top where mounted. This is built for Amish use where it is the only water heating source where much more hot water is used. You can then use the firebox coil for a hot water holding tank with circulating system for radiant or baseboard heat in the farthest rooms from the stove. If you have a second floor, you don't need a circulator pump to move it. Be careful with how much baseboard or you will extract too much heat and be into a creosote forming scenario.


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## Wolf1022008 (May 27, 2018)

coaly said:


> Wolf and Seasoned Oak;
> We have a summer grate for the Kitchen Queen that adds little to no heat to the inside of house all summer.
> In the morning we get eggs and the meat ready, usually scrapple, and remove lid over firebox. Dump a small waste basket of paper/ cardboard through the top. Add a few small pieces of kindling and open chimney vent that allows heat directly up chimney. Have the pan ready and light the fire on the raised grate. As it flames, the pan is the lid directly over flames. We like the non-stick aluminum flat griddle by All-Clad. Be ready to add food and keep it moving because it cooks fast. We set a Chinese type tea pot on top for 2 cups and when done leave chimney vent open and open air intake fully. This type cooking is faster than any electric stove top and hotter than a residential gas stove top burner. We have a commercial Garland gas range with star burners that burns twice as hot as a residential range and it is about as quick cooking on either here. We prefer wood for the stove top and only use gas in the summer for oven.*** If you open kitchen windows when cooler outside than inside, as the chimney cools, the draft through open intake (or firebox door) continues to draw outdoor air into the house until draft stops. This takes more heat out of the house than the cooking created.*** This is the same principal as using a fireplace to COOL a space. Open windows and burn paper/ cardboard to heat chimney. The rising hot gasses create enough low pressure in the house to allow more cooler outdoor air in than the heat that radiates inside.
> 
> ...


The one thing I wish my heco had was a summer grate I don't think it wold work to well with the baffle plates though.the reason I got the glass doors is because I love watching the fire when I get home at night.


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## country guy (Nov 2, 2018)

coaly said:


> The Kitchen Queen 480 is our only heat source.
> We heat just under 2000 sf. in NEPA, it is capable of heating 3000 sf.
> Use the search feature at top right with my user name and Kitchen Queen key words for details of how we use it.
> The main reason we went with that stove is the circulating direction around oven stays cleaner under oven and it has the largest stainless water heating tank at 25 gallons. They are also built for summer use with a raised summer grate for stove top cooking which doesn't heat the oven or overheat the house. I added a thermostat, but they are now available with one as well as glass firebox door.
> ...


I see kitchen queen has come out with a new stove the Grand Comfort 750 it is 88% efficient


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## KJamesJR (Nov 2, 2018)

I was checking these out a while back. Company in Vermont. 

https://www.vermontwoodstove.com/vermont-bun-baker/


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## coaly (Nov 2, 2018)

KJamesJR said:


> I was checking these out a while back. Company in Vermont.
> 
> https://www.vermontwoodstove.com/vermont-bun-baker/



Also known as the Nectre Bakers Oven from Australia.
They are fine for emergency cooking when used for space heating, but no comparison to a full size kitchen range.
Kitchen Queen is making a similar stove to the Bun Baker called the Grand Wood Cook Stove for 2499.

I'm not sure about the new Grand Comfort 750.
I was impressed with the all stainless oven and oven door stainless interior panel. The secondary burn firebox is a small shed with secondary burn tubes! Built for higher firebox temps fully lined to the top, but the grate isn't going to work with coal like the Queen 480. (the entire bottom is grate that allows full airflow) I don't see any side outlet from the fire to burn horizontally under the oven and up, and so far I see no advertising about the oven circulation from bottom to top. Looks like the secondary combustion at top will go across the cooktop, down the side and under oven like the old style ovens. I won't knock it until I try it since Dwane tests all products in Amish households before offering to the public. If it hasn't proven itself with the Amish women, he won't produce it.


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## begreen (Nov 2, 2018)

It may be a nice stove but the 88% efficiency claim sounds dubious.


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2018)

Are the kitchen queen cook stoves ul listed yet?  The last couple i installed were not.


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## coaly (Nov 4, 2018)

Yes, the original testing was done to 1482 in 1998. Omni Testing Labs Beaverton OR. (The old tags stated "Listed and Tested by Omni, but not to what UL test was performed causing the confusion)

March 8, 2016 re-testing was done to the updated Queen stove by Guardian Testing Services, NY.

The differences of the *Queen* model are;
1) The high amount of floor protection is no longer required; The original called for 3/4 thick material with K-factor of 0.84. The proposed alternate was 4 inch brick with C-factor of 1.25 over mineral board with K-factor of 0.29. *Total required R value was reached at 0.893 for original*.
(Formula is R=1/kxt=1/0.84x.75=0.893)
*The new style passed for 0.0 R value with UL requirement of ember protection only* required for all stoves.

2) Reduced pipe and chimney sizing; The old style 380 was 6 inch and 480 was 7 (designed originally to match antique cook stove connections with 7 inch) NFPA would have allowed reduction of the 480 to 6, BUT the old manual stated NO reduction was allowed. The re-test was done on a 6 inch 480* allowing 6 inch to be used on both the 380 and 480.*

3) Reduced clearances; Without shield, *old clearance was 36 inches to rear*, not including 6.5 inch flue collar extended towards the rear.* New clearance is 18 inches to rear,* and flue collar extension has been eliminated. *Old side clearance was 18 inches. New passed with 12 inch side clearance.*

4) Shielding; *With shielding, the new style passed with 2 inch side clearance and 6 inches rear.*
New manuals are of course supplied with the newer stoves and available on-line.


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## bholler (Nov 4, 2018)

coaly said:


> Yes, the original testing was done to 1482 in 1998. Omni Testing Labs Beaverton OR. (The old tags stated "Listed and Tested by Omni, but not to what UL test was performed causing the confusion)
> 
> March 8, 2016 re-testing was done to the updated Queen stove by Guardian Testing Services, NY.
> 
> ...


Good glad they got it listed.  Are they going to try for the 2020 emissions?


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## coaly (Nov 4, 2018)

I don't know, I don't think so since I believe they remain exempt.


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## bholler (Nov 4, 2018)

coaly said:


> I don't know, I don't think so since I believe they remain exempt.


I thought cook stoves were covered in the next round.  Atleast that is what the origonal timeline was.  But the inclusion of furnaces got pushed back several times so who knows.


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## Ashful (Nov 4, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> Depends on the size of your house, insulation, climate etc. Could be done, has been done but depends.


Around here, any good 18th century house was built with a summer kitchen outside the house, and I believe that conventioned carried all up and down the more populated areas Atlantic coast.  It seems that this convention was abandoned sometime around the early 19th century, which would coincide with a move from cooking on open fires to these cookstoves.  Without just guessing (we can all do that), does anyone know if there is a cause/effect relationship between the adoption of the iron cook stove and the end of the summer kitchen?

Today, the summer kitchens built stoutly enough to survive 250 years are generally connected into the house, and used as den or some other modern purpose.  Mine was used as storage until 1994, when all but the original cooking fireplace was removed, to be incorporated into an addition to the house.  The photo in my avatar is of that fireplace, although it was likely plastered until 25 years ago, exposed stone is more of a modern obsession.


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## coaly (Nov 4, 2018)

I'm glad I'm old enough to retire by 2020.
Personally, I'm against all states having different rules since it's much easier having federal rules govern everyone. However, the use of cook stoves is so small to the rest of the industry, and some states have so few cook stoves, it's difficult to group everyone together. When I see the number of people burning leaves, trash, furniture........including mattresses outside, I think they have far more issues than being concerned with the few cook stoves that will be sold after 2020.
On another note, I have a few neighbors driving vehicles with broken flex pipes which are not only super loud, but none of that exhaust is going through their convertors or obviously adjusting their fuel trim to burn clean using downstream 02 sensors! Even if they are stopped for noise, nothing is mentioned about emissions. Again, no one simply enforces laws on the books, but it's easy to walk into a manufacturing facility and test their products being produced. Given the chance, people are going to screw up compliant stoves just like any other.
Ah, my neighbor just fired up his old leaf blower that smokes so bad his cloud is over my house, light filtering through the blue haze around my clean burning chimney. Refreshing 2 cycle aroma fills the air.


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## bholler (Nov 4, 2018)

coaly said:


> I'm glad I'm old enough to retire by 2020.
> Personally, I'm against all states having different rules since it's much easier having federal rules govern everyone. However, the use of cook stoves is so small to the rest of the industry, and some states have so few cook stoves, it's difficult to group everyone together. When I see the number of people burning leaves, trash, furniture........including mattresses outside, I think they have far more issues than being concerned with the few cook stoves that will be sold after 2020.
> On another note, I have a few neighbors driving vehicles with broken flex pipes which are not only super loud, but none of that exhaust is going through their convertors or obviously adjusting their fuel trim to burn clean using downstream 02 sensors! Even if they are stopped for noise, nothing is mentioned about emissions. Again, no one simply enforces laws on the books, but it's easy to walk into a manufacturing facility and test their products being produced. Given the chance, people are going to screw up compliant stoves just like any other.
> Ah, my neighbor just fired up his old leaf blower that smokes so bad his cloud is over my house, light filtering through the blue haze around my clean burning chimney. Refreshing 2 cycle aroma fills the air.


Yes but in every segment of the industry where the epa rules were applied the stoves got better.  Way better.  So why would you not want better cookstoves.


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## coaly (Nov 7, 2018)

I'm not sure how secondary combustion is going to work with a cookstove. A baffle over the fire prevents direct contact with pans when an eye is removed, for us that is the benefit of fast cooking with wood. The Queen ovens that circulate across the bottom allow the flames to go sideways right around the oven. It has been the best design we've ever used, that's why I'm not sure about the changes until I try one. Secondary combustion is fine for space heating, but I think stove top temperatures and oven circulation takes more fuel. I think they need to burn the conventional way for that (requiring a large firebox and no baffle) and go to secondary combustion for space heating. It's back to the scenario of converting a design from coal to wood, not working well with both types of combustion.


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## bholler (Nov 7, 2018)

coaly said:


> I'm not sure how secondary combustion is going to work with a cookstove. A baffle over the fire prevents direct contact with pans when an eye is removed, for us that is the benefit of fast cooking with wood. The Queen ovens that circulate across the bottom allow the flames to go sideways right around the oven. It has been the best design we've ever used, that's why I'm not sure about the changes until I try one. Secondary combustion is fine for space heating, but I think stove top temperatures and oven circulation takes more fuel. I think they need to burn the conventional way for that (requiring a large firebox and no baffle) and go to secondary combustion for space heating. It's back to the scenario of converting a design from coal to wood, not working well with both types of combustion.


Esse does it very well with a cat.  With theirs you dont need to pull a plate that cat makes the top plenty hot enough.  You can also rout that clean  exhaust how ever you want.  You only get a little fly ash.  And on tube stoves when you get that secondary combustion going the stove top temp goes way up.  There is no reason it couldnt work


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

bholler said:


> Esse does it very well with a cat.  With theirs you dont need to pull a plate that cat makes the top plenty hot enough.  You can also rout that clean  exhaust how ever you want.  You only get a little fly ash.  And on tube stoves when you get that secondary combustion going the stove top temp goes way up.  There is no reason it couldnt work


Just piggy backing off your comment. 

The Esse has secondary combustion as well. It has two sets of air vents on the door. One at the top and one at the bottom. When you get it up to temp, you close the vent on the bottom and the top vented air ignites. The only fire you see is above the wood. This secondary lasts for probably 30% of the load burn time, starting from when you load it with wood.  

When you start to circulate the heat around the oven, is when it goes through the cat. When it was brand new and the hob was clean you could see a hot spot where the cat was sitting. It definitely was putting off some heat.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

I didn't know Esse used a cat, at least with the Ironheart. Thought it was a wood/coal stove. What model does? (Edit - OK it is on the 990N model. It looks great though at $8500 no wonder I haven't seen one yet.)

With the cooler cat flue temps how much is lost when routing it around the oven? Cat stoves with straight up flues can dirty a chimney when run on low. How quickly does the Esse build up creosote in the chimney? Or is the cat on the flue outlet of the stove?


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Joyboy said:


> Just piggy backing off your comment.
> The Esse has secondary combustion as well. It has two sets of air vents on the door. One at the top and one at the bottom. When you get it up to temp, you close the vent on the bottom and the top vented air ignites. The only fire you see is above the wood. This secondary lasts for probably 30% of the load burn time, starting from when you load it with wood.
> 
> When you start to circulate the heat around the oven, is when it goes through the cat. When it was brand new and the hob was clean you could see a hot spot where the cat was sitting. It definitely was putting off some heat.


Do you have this stove in your home? About how long does a load of fuel last?


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## bholler (Nov 7, 2018)

begreen said:


> Do you have this stove in your home? About how long does a load of fuel last?


I dont have one but installed one and was invited over for a meal cooked with it.  It is a great cook stove but not a heater.  It is heavily insulated and with all the doors and lids closed it puts very little heat into the room.  With the outer door open it does put out some heat but it is a very small firebox so it doesnt last long.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Beautiful stove. I have neither the house nor the budget for one, but it still makes me drool. I used to love baking and cooking with a wood cook stove. Too bad about the short burn time. I was hoping the cat would extend it considerably.


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## bholler (Nov 7, 2018)

begreen said:


> Beautiful stove. I have neither the house nor the budget for one, but it still makes me drool. I used to love baking and cooking with a wood cook stove. Too bad about the short burn time. I was hoping the cat would extend it considerably.


I dont know if it changed but when we installed it they were not listed and not sold in the us.  So they had to pay to have it shipped overseas.  They had a little over 10000 in it to get it to their door.  Because it is not a heater the short burn times are not a big deal from what i saw.  You started a fire cooked with the stove and let it go out pretty quickly.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Looks like Obidaihs started carrying it this year. They have it listed for around $8500 in black and $9100 in enamel. I ran our stove all day in the winter. Cooked breakfast, warmed up lunch, baked and made dinner on it. Less loading would be nice. 

https://woodstoves.net/esse/esse-990-triple-oven-wood-cook-stove.htm


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

begreen said:


> I didn't know Esse used a cat, at least with the Ironheart. Thought it was a wood/coal stove. What model does? (Edit - OK it is on the 990N model. It looks great though at $8500 no wonder I haven't seen one yet.)
> 
> With the cooler cat flue temps how much is lost when routing it around the oven? Cat stoves with straight up flues can dirty a chimney when run on low. How quickly does the Esse build up creosote in the chimney? Or is the cat on the flue outlet of the stove?



The cat is above the oven on the right side. I'm not sure how much creosote it accumulates yet.  I replaced another stove and burned it for a couple months but didn't start with a clean chimney.  It wasn't bad when i cleaned it this summer. 2 or 3 cups maybe?  I've been burning it pretty good so far this fall and will let you know what it looks like when I clean it.   i don't think anything is lost because the cat puts the heat into the stove.


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

bholler said:


> I dont have one but installed one and was invited over for a meal cooked with it.  It is a great cook stove but not a heater.  It is heavily insulated and with all the doors and lids closed it puts very little heat into the room.  With the outer door open it does put out some heat but it is a very small firebox so it doesnt last long.



It doesn't have short burn times surprisingly.  This stove is very efficient.  If it is up to cruising temps, i can load it up and cook a full meal on it without worrying about refilling.  I can get overnight burns with this stove easily.    When I say overnight burns, I mean there are plenty of coals to start a fire without kindling or matches and the oven is still probably 200 degree.  One of the things I worry about is how slow it will burn if you want it to.  Something I will keep an eye on when I clean it.  

You are correct on the insulation part.   Which is why I bought it.  I wanted to be able to use it year round if i wanted to.  I would guess that it would heat 100' if everything was closed up or 500' if everything was open.  Just a guess though,  my set up isn't very good to test this.


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

bholler said:


> I dont know if it changed but when we installed it they were not listed and not sold in the us.  So they had to pay to have it shipped overseas.  They had a little over 10000 in it to get it to their door.  Because it is not a heater the short burn times are not a big deal from what i saw.  You started a fire cooked with the stove and let it go out pretty quickly.




It is ul listed now.   I have both the US manual and the European manual and it's funny to see the clearance differences.  It's a lot.  Lol


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## bholler (Nov 7, 2018)

Joyboy said:


> The cat is above the oven on the right side. I'm not sure how much creosote it accumulates yet.  I replaced another stove and burned it for a couple months but didn't start with a clean chimney.  It wasn't bad when i cleaned it this summer. 2 or 3 cups maybe?  I've been burning it pretty good so far this fall and will let you know what it looks like when I clean it.   i don't think anything is lost because the cat puts the heat into the stove.


Yeah the one i service never has never had much of any creosote at all


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

Couple pictures of the secondaries and air supply.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Great thread. I'm really enjoying learning about new cook stoves. You are a lucky man joyboy. Now I know why you are joyful. Can you post some pics of this beauty.


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

begreen said:


> Great thread. I'm really enjoying learning about new cook stoves. You are a lucky man joyboy. Now I know why you are joyful. Can you post some pics of this beauty.



It has been fun!  Lol.   One of the interesting things about the cookstove is the three ovens. When it is at cruising temp, each oven is at a different temperature.


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

The cleaning hatch inside of the main oven. Hatch is 3/8” thick. Makes me think the rest of the oven is that thick but can’t verify. I do know it weighs 992 pounds. 

I have an old Home Comfort cookstove that my wife’s grandmother had before she was born. It has seen a lot of use and only weighs half as much as the Esse. Very thin sheet metal oven walls. Makes me wonder how long the Esse, Queen or etc might  last if taken care of.  Won’t be my problem anyways.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Joyboy said:


> It has been fun!  Lol.   One of the interesting things about the cookstove is the three ovens. When it is at cruising temp, each oven is at a different temperature.


That's a beauty. Based on the chart it looks a bit challenging for the normal baking temp of 350º.


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## Joyboy (Nov 7, 2018)

begreen said:


> That's a beauty. Based on the chart it looks a bit challenging for the normal baking temp of 350º.


You would think so looking at the chart. It’s a different type of heat. I’ve heard others say it’s because the oven isn’t vented so it keeps in more moisture. I don’t know if that’s the case but it is pretty forgiving. I’ve cooked pizzas, bread, cookies and apple crisp at the same temps. No problems but the times on most recipes aren’t always accurate. It tends to take a few minutes more than normal.


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## begreen (Nov 7, 2018)

Ok, I can understand that. It took me a few tries to get a predictable nice loaf of bread with the old oven.


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## edyit (Nov 8, 2018)

begreen said:


> Ok, I can understand that. It took me a few tries to get a predictable nice loaf of bread with the old oven.



there's something that brings back some fond memories, my grandparents had an old wood cookstove, nothing better than a still warm piece with some peanut butter on it.


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## Joyboy (Nov 8, 2018)

edyit said:


> there's something that brings back some fond memories, my grandparents had an old wood cookstove, nothing better than a still warm piece with some peanut butter on it.


My last piece was with local unprocessed honey. Not to bad either.


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## Mainely Saws (Nov 8, 2018)

here are a couple of interesting videos on cook stoves .............


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## Joyboy (Nov 10, 2018)

Mainely Saws said:


> here are a couple of interesting videos on cook stoves .............



They were interesting. I like the backwoods logic guys way of presenting things. Pretty informative for someone thinking about getting a queen. 

I had seen the homewood video before. It’s more of a really well done marketing video that hooks you on the lifestyle without showing you the ins and outs of the stove. Before getting my stove I had searched the internet for videos and reviews pretty heavily. This video made me look pretty hard at the comfort.


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 10, 2018)

I have watched many videos of coal/wood cook stoves and i like the Amish built units the best. For the quality are probaby the most affordable. The smaller stoves posted here have the rings too close to the vent, if on top. What I know about the rings is that they are sacrificial to the top, as a cold pot affects the hot metalergy negatively. This is why cooking is not recommended on a regular stove.


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## bholler (Nov 10, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> I have watched many videos of coal/wood cook stoves and i like the Amish built units the best. For the quality are probaby the most affordable. The smaller stoves posted here have the rings too close to the vent, if on top. What I know about the rings is that they are sacrificial to the top, as a cold pot affects the hot metalergy negatively. This is why cooking is not recommended on a regular stove.


What smaller stoves are you referring to?


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 10, 2018)

The last I knew, the old cook stoves diverted gases downward for the oven and there was one manufacturer that was able to get certification due to their design.

I purchased a small antique model for hobby purposes, and after taking it apart, a thorough cleaning and inspection, there were more than 10 cracks that I needed to repair, so buy new. Now the old stoves typically had thinner iron. Some of the Amish units start around $3k US.


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 10, 2018)

bholler said:


> What smaller stoves are you referring to?



From the earlier post

http://www.jaroby.com/en/produits.php?cat=15&sec=1


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## bholler (Nov 10, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> From the earlier post
> 
> http://www.jaroby.com/en/produits.php?cat=15&sec=1


Ahh ok i thought you were talking about the esse stoves


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## bholler (Nov 10, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> The last I knew, the old cook stoves diverted gases downward for the oven and there was one manufacturer that was able to get certification due to their design.
> 
> I purchased a small antique model for hobby purposes, and after taking it apart, a thorough cleaning and inspection, there were more than 10 cracks that I needed to repair, so buy new. Now the old stoves typically had thinner iron. Some of the Amish units start around $3k US.


We work on atleast 10 old stoves that have been in use for many many years.  The new ones can be great to but you can still find old ones that have lots of years left in them.


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## Joyboy (Dec 25, 2018)

Merry Christmas everyone. This is a picture I took this morning of what was left of my overnight burn in the esse. Put the round of Russian olive in at 9 pm. Shut it down to for overnight at 9:30pm and this is what was left at 7 am. 

Main burner was 306 degrees. Oven was 247.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 25, 2018)

Waterford used to import a wood heat cook stove to the US until about 12 years ago or so.  Think they still may be available in Canada but not sure.  We're beautiful looking stoves from what I recall but don't know how well they heated.   Kevin


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## Joyboy (Dec 25, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Waterford used to import a wood heat cook stove to the US until about 12 years ago or so.  Think they still may be available in Canada but not sure.  We're beautiful looking stoves from what I recall but don't know how well they heated.   Kevin


They are still available. Really nice heavy duty stoves. I think they heated pretty well.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 25, 2018)

Coaly has me daydreaming about a wood cook stove. I saw an Elmira stove that had close clearances and would work in our home, but the Kitchen Queen sounds better in every regard. It might not be as pretty, but it seems to be better at the job of cooking. It would also be nice to have some extra heat on the coldest winter nights instead of the electric baseboard heat supplementing the stove. I think I'll pitch this to the wife as adding efficiency and reducing electric usage since the house we just bought has a dreadful electric range. I didn't see the price on the Kitchen queen, but one of the other Amish stoves listed at $2500 is within the ballpark of a nice modern gas range. I don't need a fireview, my wood heating stove has a window. We do have a small countertop convection oven for the times she doesn't want to use the wood. Are there any wood stoves with gas burners aside from Elmira? I feel like this is something I could reasonably do in a few years with the right clearances.


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## Connecticut Yankee (Dec 30, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Without just guessing (we can all do that), does anyone know if there is a cause/effect relationship between the adoption of the iron cook stove and the end of the summer kitchen?


My mother's mother never had a summer kitchen.  In summer, Grandma used to make a small fire directly under the cookplate(s) she intended to use, and bank the coals as soon as cooking was done.  This kept the kitchen from becoming unbearably hot at that time of year.  I don't see any way to do that in a fireplace, since even a small fire in a fireplace would still be larger and hotter than a small fire in a cookstove.

The stove certainly kept the kitchen warm in the winter, but they had a fireplace to heat the living room.  (The bedrooms got cold enough for the wash-water in the bedroom pitchers to freeze solid.)  It was my mother's job to bank the coals in the stove and fireplace before going to bed, and then to rekindle the fires in the morning before school.  They gradually modernized after Grandpa and the neighbors were able to force the power company to run a main down their road.  To the end of her life, Mom had an abiding love of hot water heaters, showers, and central heating.

My father's aunt cooked on fire until she entered a nursing home a decade or so ago (she had a wood stove for most of her life, and modernized to coal about thirty years ago).  Even in the summer, she kept the stove fire going.  Her kitchen was never too hot.  Of course this was in a part of Maine where the saying was, "Summer's half over by the Fourth of July," and the water in the pond never really got warm enough for this sissy city boy to enjoy swimming in it.


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## bholler (Dec 30, 2018)

Connecticut Yankee said:


> My mother's mother never had a summer kitchen.  In summer, Grandma used to make a small fire directly under the cookplate(s) she intended to use, and bank the coals as soon as cooking was done.  This kept the kitchen from becoming unbearably hot at that time of year.  I don't see any way to do that in a fireplace, since even a small fire in a fireplace would still be larger and hotter than a small fire in a cookstove.
> 
> The stove certainly kept the kitchen warm in the winter, but they had a fireplace to heat the living room.  (The bedrooms got cold enough for the wash-water in the bedroom pitchers to freeze solid.)  It was my mother's job to bank the coals in the stove and fireplace before going to bed, and then to rekindle the fires in the morning before school.  They gradually modernized after Grandpa and the neighbors were able to force the power company to run a main down their road.  To the end of her life, Mom had an abiding love of hot water heaters, showers, and central heating.
> 
> My father's aunt cooked on fire until she entered a nursing home a decade or so ago (she had a wood stove for most of her life, and modernized to coal about thirty years ago).  Even in the summer, she kept the stove fire going.  Her kitchen was never too hot.  Of course this was in a part of Maine where the saying was, "Summer's half over by the Fourth of July," and the water in the pond never really got warm enough for this sissy city boy to enjoy swimming in it.


Actually fireplace cooking puts much less heat into the house than a cookstove.  Fires in cooking fireplaces were typically very small


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## Ashful (Dec 31, 2018)

One thing that’s interesting is that each of my cooking fireplaces have big doors you can close.  I’m told they were used for smoking, but I also wonder if they were closed on banked coals, to keep heat out of the room and up the chimney, in warm weather.


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## jetsam (Dec 31, 2018)

Cooking fireplaces often had pothangers, allowing the fires to be very small, just big enough for one pot.  Running a tiny fire in a big fireplace can actually cool the house because of all the air being pulled through the chimney (though that assumes it was warmer inside than outside to start with).


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## SpaceBus (Dec 31, 2018)

Any opinions on the Waterford Stanley stoves? I like the design, but the lack of removable cook rings above the firebox make me think it would cook the kitchen out if used in the summer. 
https://woodstoves.net/cookstoves/stanley-cookstove.htm


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## ratsrepus (Dec 31, 2018)

Hey, if blaze king made a cook stove I could do some slow cooking.  That fancy one pictured is pretty cool


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## BKVP (Dec 31, 2018)

Waterford plant in Ireland was closed years ago.  I found out last year when touring their wisky...I mean stove stores.

There's one from Croatia or Czech Rep.that is phenomenal...I'll try to find a link.  I saw them and the designs were extremely thoughtful.


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## begreen (Dec 31, 2018)

BKVP said:


> There's one from Croatia or Czech Rep.that is phenomenal...I'll try to find a link. I saw them and the designs were extremely thoughtful.


Maybe Serbia? Sopka impressed me and then I found that they were also rebranded in England and Italy and popular there too. 
https://sopkainc.com/product-category/wood-burning-cook-stove/


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## BKVP (Dec 31, 2018)

Boru Wood Cook Stove!

This allows some great features.   Redirect heat to different compartments, top inserts with various size diameters.   I saw it in Soldotna AK.  Pretty sweet.  

https://www.google.com/search?q=bor...md=simvn&biw=360&bih=660#imgrc=ZuLiO0aFCcrKlM


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## begreen (Dec 31, 2018)

Ah, that is Irish. Looks pretty nice. I like the multiple racks in the oven. Looks like a young company.
http://borustoves.ie/shop/dry-stoves/ellis-cook-stove/


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

BKVP said:


> Waterford plant in Ireland was closed years ago.  I found out last year when touring their wisky...I mean stove stores.
> 
> There's one from Croatia or Czech Rep.that is phenomenal...I'll try to find a link.  I saw them and the designs were extremely thoughtful.


It’s a shame about the Waterford plant. The article I read says they are now being made abroad. Which probably means China. The same company owns aga and Rayburn as well as Viking. 

I still see them offered for sale on websites. Maybe they have old stock or haven’t got the memo.


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## BKVP (Jan 1, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> It’s a shame about the Waterford plant. The article I read says they are now being made abroad. Which probably means China. The same company owns aga and Rayburn as well as Viking.
> 
> I still see them offered for sale on websites. Maybe they have old stock or haven’t got the memo.


China is correct.  The Middleton Distillery, Waterford Crystal are both still there in County Cork.  Big hazmat area where foundry was.  Hey, they still have great wisky!


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

BKVP said:


> Waterford plant in Ireland was closed years ago.  I found out last year when touring their wisky...I mean stove stores.
> 
> There's one from Croatia or Czech Rep.that is phenomenal...I'll try to find a link.  I saw them and the designs were extremely thoughtful.


It’s a shame about the Waterford plant. The article I read says they are now being made abroad. Which probably means China. The same company owns aga and Rayburn as well as Viking.

I still see them offered for sale on websites. Maybe they have old stock or haven’t got the memo.


BKVP said:


> China is correct.  The Middleton Distillery, Waterford Crystal are both still there in County Cork.  Big hamster area where foundry was.  Hey, they still have great wisky!


Well, there’s always a bright side.  I might have to acquire some for my collection.    Lol


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

I learned something new about my wife, she only likes antique styled heat stoves, not cook stoves! The more I showed her stuff like the Margin Gem and Elmira Fireview the less she seemed to like the styling. She says they are too busy. It's tough to find a good UL Listed cook stove.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

@Joyboy 
Do you have any issues putting a full size turkey in your Esse? I'm eyeballing the Ironheart and 990 triple oven. Trying to find a listed cook stove that will hold a full size turkey while fitting into a 72" x 32" space.


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> @Joyboy
> Do you have any issues putting a full size turkey in your Esse? I'm eyeballing the Ironheart and 990 triple oven. Trying to find a listed cook stove that will hold a full size turkey while fitting into a 72" x 32" space.


I have put a full size turkey in there but I had to look through our roasting pans to find one that would fit in the oven. The oven floor measures 18” x 14”. One of our large roasting pans had large handles that kept me from closing the door but luckily I had another one that had more compact handles that fit perfectly. 

I have some large cookie sheets that won’t fit in the oven.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> I have put a full size turkey in there but I had to look through our roasting pans to find one that would fit in the oven. The oven floor measures 18” x 14”. One of our large roasting pans had large handles that kept me from closing the door but luckily I had another one that had more compact handles that fit perfectly.
> 
> I have some large cookie sheets that won’t fit in the oven.



Does your 990 incorporate domestic hot water heating? My goal is to eventually be off grid after we finish remodeling the house. My short list includes the 990 (dependent on water hook up), Iron Heart, Sopka/Tim Sistem North Hydro, and the Rizzoli ST/LT 90. I think these are the only stoves that will hold a turkey, heat our water, we find good looking, and are UL listed. I don't think our Insurance will be down with an unlisted stove regardless of the install and it will take a long time for us to be able to self insure.


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Does your 990 incorporate domestic hot water heating? My goal is to eventually be off grid after we finish remodeling the house. My short list includes the 990 (dependent on water hook up), Iron Heart, Sopka/Tim Sistem North Hydro, and the Rizzoli ST/LT 90. I think these are the only stoves that will hold a turkey, heat our water, we find good looking, and are UL listed. I don't think our Insurance will be down with an unlisted stove regardless of the install and it will take a long time for us to be able to self insure.


Mine isn’t a boiler. There are still some available that are but I know esse is discontinuing the boiler on the 990. I know from all the research that I did on cookstoves that you have to be careful and size the radiator units correctly. If you don’t the stove becomes a creosote making factory.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> Mine isn’t a boiler. There are still some available that are but I know esse is discontinuing the boiler on the 990. I know from all the research that I did on cookstoves that you have to be careful and size the radiator units correctly. If you don’t the stove becomes a creosote making factory.



Thanks for the heads up. I take it an oversized boiler would lead to excessive creosote?


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I take it an oversized boiler would lead to excessive creosote?


Yep.  Some people have some really nice set ups that work well but others have had a nightmare getting it to work properly. 

Most of the people that come here seem to have problems with wet wood. You add oversized radiators pulling even more heat out of the fire box and you could have big problems.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> Yep.  Some people have some really nice set ups that work well but others have had a nightmare getting it to work properly.
> 
> Most of the people that come here seem to have problems with wet wood. You add oversized radiators pulling even more heat out of the fire box and you could have big problems.



Yeah, that's no kidding! I've been cutting and stacking wood since we got here, and we've used up about 2/3 of the seasoned wood left here by the previous owners. A pallet of compressed wood bricks is also inbound to supplement our less than idea stacks. After this winter it should be smooth sailing. I'd like to have the house finished and the cook stove installed by fall 2020, but we shall see. I'm leaning heavily towards the Esse Ironheart, but the price of the Tim Sistem North with boiler is very attractive. It might be a nice entry level cooker and then upgrade to something like the Rizzoli ST90 or Esse Ironheart after we've gotten used to cooking with wood. Then I could build a three sided structure on the patio and move the North outside for a summer kitchen. 

I'll chat up my local family owned heating and plumbing shop. Wood fired boilers are popular up here, so it shouldn't be a big deal. A tankless water heater will be happening within the next six months. I figure I'll need some type of holding tank for the stove/boiler, but there's already a place for it since we have a 52 gallon hot water tank/heater.


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## Joyboy (Jan 1, 2019)

I really liked the features on this stove. Cost being one of them. Lol. It’s not UL listed but my insurance company told me that they just needed it installed to manufacturer specs. 

https://www.woodcookstove.com/lacunza-vulcano-cook-stove.html


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## SpaceBus (Jan 1, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> I really liked the features on this stove. Cost being one of them. Lol. It’s not UL listed but my insurance company told me that they just needed it installed to manufacturer specs.
> 
> https://www.woodcookstove.com/lacunza-vulcano-cook-stove.html



I saw the Lacunza stoves, they really are fantastic. The only UL listed stove has an oven that's too small and it puts out too much heat unfortunately. We live right on the coast and only got two quotes, everyone else refused. An unlisted stove might push them over the edge, and Maine defaults to NFPA 211, so it would basically have to sit in the middle of the Kitchen, and that's not an option.


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## St. Coemgen (Jan 4, 2019)

paddler said:


> hey folks, i've been heating our place with a wood stove for years. we have recently been talking about swapping the wood stove out for a wood fired cook stove. has anyone had any experience with using one for a primary heater? Could we expect a large wood cook stove to heat as effectively as wood stove?



It depends.

It depends on the space you want to heat, if you want to heat over night, the stove you buy, home insulation, etc.

We have a wood stove that also has a cooking oven and a hot plate (the La Nordica Rosella in my signature below), and it is our "primary" heater. But our house has two chimnies, and so we also have a secondary, smaller, wood stove, and we have a small house. So the two together are more than what we need (we may not even run the second stove on most days). Also I don't burn overnight. The house is well insulated and does not need overnight burns.

Also, the manual for the La Nordica suggests it not be used as a "primary heater" in the context of always on, overnight heating. So I don't. But, as above, I don't need to.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

Would my electric glass top stove be considered a non combustible material? I just saw that the old Jotul 404 is UL listed. If my oven is considered non combustible, I should be able to keep both in the kitchen. Anyone ever heard of someone heating domestic hot water with a 404? I didn't see it listed in the manual I found, so probably not. Still, would be a nice starter cook stove.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

@begreen
I saw your comment on this old post. When you say it will boil water, I assume you mean like in a kettle instead of a hot water coil in the firebox.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-is-the-jotul-404-cook-stove-performance.81717/


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2019)

Yes, on top in a kettle or pot. The thought didn't cross my mind and I assumed one doesn't want a steam boiler system.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

begreen said:


> Yes, on top in a kettle or pot. The thought didn't cross my mind and I assumed one doesn't want a steam boiler system.



Well, I really like the domestic hot water heating offered in some cook stoves. It's usually just a stainless pipe bent in a "U" shape with threaded pipe nipples on the back or side. It would be something I would add to my electric system to take load off when possible.

Either way, I love the little 404, or at least the little bit of information I can find online. If my electric glass top oven counts as a non combustible surface then I'll probably start looking out for one in New England.


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2019)

Hot water heating is very different from boiling water. It's at a much lower temp. A proper water jacket system should have safeguards if this should happen.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

begreen said:


> Hot water heating is very different from boiling water. It's at a much lower temp. A proper water jacket system should have safeguards if this should happen.


I doubt it would still remain legal if modified with a domestic hot water coil, so we wouldn't do it unless Jotul offered it back in the day.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 6, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Well, I really like the domestic hot water heating offered in some cook stoves. It's usually just a stainless pipe bent in a "U" shape with threaded pipe nipples on the back or side. It would be something I would add to my electric system to take load off when possible.
> 
> Either way, I love the little 404, or at least the little bit of information I can find online. If my electric glass top oven counts as a non combustible surface then I'll probably start looking out for one in New England.





begreen said:


> Hot water heating is very different from boiling water. It's at a much lower temp. A proper water jacket system should have safeguards if this should happen.


Our original stove had the stainless piping to heat water for the floor. The design was a closed system and included a TPRV but was poorly thought out, but worked ok. Really, it required 24 hour supervision in case the power failed even though it fed by gravity to some degree. With no other additional high tech safety It would have been safer as an open system to let the pipes boil dry into an open tub if any of the system failed. A gravity fed, open system that utilizes a tub with a non-airtight lid could work for a manifold to a pumped secondary system. The real problem is disconnecting the heat source from the water/ vessel/ pressure vessel/ when power or pump fails so the pressures aren't exceeded and leading to catastrophe. There was an external coil system manufactured for the stove pipe at one time and when the power failed or the water temps increased past setpoint the damper at the base of the plenum opened and cooled the converter (piping) even though the vent pipe was maintaining temperature- I currently cannot find it on the web and I thought it carried a listing at that time. Mother Earth and many other DIY systems exist but to my knowledge they are not listed for safety.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

It was worth a shot, I still like the 404. Still tho, does my electric glass top oven count as a non combustible surface? If so, then it would be a super easy install.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 6, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> It was worth a shot, I still like the 404. Still tho, does my electric glass top oven count as a non combustible surface? If so, then it would be a super easy install.


I believe that top does qualify as a non combustible surface within the design and intentions that it was tested, accepted, and passed. Once you modify it, or use it for something other than originally designed and intended for, all bets are off, and you loose all listing for safety, underwriting, etc. 
So sorry for taking the long way around. My answer is no, since you need to install and maintaining only those devices/equipment that are UL/ETL accepted for safety.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> I believe that top does qualify as a non combustible surface within the design and intentions that it was tested, accepted, and passed. Once you modify it, or use it for something other than originally designed and intended for, all bets are off, and you loose all listing for safety, underwriting, etc.
> So sorry for taking the long way around. My answer is no, since you need to install and maintaining only those devices/equipment that are UL/ETL accepted for safety.



I didn't communicate clearly, I apologize. What I mean to ask is if I install the 404 next to my electric glass top oven can I have it within the 5" clearance to non combustibles mentioned in the 404 manual? If so, I only need to shield my cabinets and the rear wall if I can't find the rear heat shield (unlikely I suppose).


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 6, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I didn't communicate clearly, I apologize. What I mean to ask is if I install the 404 next to my electric glass top oven can I have it within the 5" clearance to non combustibles mentioned in the 404 manual? If so, I only need to shield my cabinets and the rear wall if I can't find the rear heat shield (unlikely I suppose).


I appologize as well. Sometimes the internet is too far a gap to properly convey the intended messages either way. Looking at the project onsite is safer and gets far better results than my attempt, or anyone's attempt to help you. Imo, you have to follow the installation instructions and especially if the install is of unusually close clearances. Since the manual doesn't cover your particular install,  I suggest that you seek advice from a licensed professional that can visually confirm your plans, your measurements, and is willing to certify your design and changes after they inspect it.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

The only issue I'm running into is whether or not a kitchen appliance can be considered non combustible. The rest of the install is pretty straight forward, given I can find a rear heat shield. I just can't find anything to tell me if the side of the oven counts as noncombustible. It's funny you mention licensed installers, the closest one is over an hour away. Eventually I want to be certified and do installs in my area, but that's another discussion.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 6, 2019)

If I'm reading NFPA 220 and 211 correctly my electric kitchen stove should count as a non combustible since it's steel and glass and doesn't use combustible fuel.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.

We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .

Our house has a lot of insulation and is very air tight. One issue we have is that we only need 1 or 2 fires a day, so sometimes it just isn't practical to time the fire with cooking. Especially with a toddler..  Without a toddler, even single digit weather you could do 1 fire at night and heat our house if you are ok with temp fluctiation between 64-72-ish. Anyhow, the thing throws the heat off. Doing 2 fires per day you can always restart from coals. One fire a day usually requires kindling.

The oven especially cooks better than anything I have used before. Food also seems to be more tolerant of a range of temps. Taking the main cook plate off, and sticking a wok right over the fire, there's also just nothing else like that. It really can be a pleasure and something to look forward to in the long, cold, dark winter.

In a couple years I may plumb the stove for hot water, it does come predrilled for hookup.

I have admittedly wondered if a blaze king would be a better fit in our house. Being able to burn at the lowest setting for 24-40 hours most of the winter would probably save us a fair amount of wood. It also would allow us to tighten up the temp swings in the house.

Here's a pic of some fried rice I cooked the other night.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.
> 
> We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .
> 
> ...


The esse is not a good heater at all.  But they are fantastic cook stoves.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

bholler said:


> The esse is not a good heater at all.  But they are fantastic cook stoves.



Huh... didn't realize that. I don't know much about them because it was out of our price range.

Mainly just wanted to share our experience with the Kitchen Queen because there isn't much info out there on cook stoves.


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## bholler (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> Huh... didn't realize that. I don't know much about them because it was out of our price range.
> 
> Mainly just wanted to share our experience with the Kitchen Queen because there isn't much info out there on cook stoves.


There isn't much info because the market is tiny.


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## Joyboy (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.
> 
> We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .
> 
> ...


Thanks. I really like the kitchen queen.  I liked the doors with windows option too. That’s the way I would have went as well. I agree that these ovens with the heavy steel plate, cook very good. Real even. 

I really like being able to restart the fire with just coals. Not a huge fan of starting a fire all the time. Super cedars help cut down on the axe work. Lol

How big of area are you heating?


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## Joyboy (Jan 11, 2019)

bholler said:


> The esse is not a good heater at all.  But they are fantastic cook stoves.


They rate them at 17000 btu’s output. This is with the fire door and hob lids open. Probably enough to heat 400 to 800 feet depending on how well insulated you are. With the hob lids and fire door closed it would be a good bit less. At least half the output maybe even less.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> Thanks. I really like the kitchen queen.  I liked the doors with windows option too. That’s the way I would have went as well. I agree that these ovens with the heavy steel plate, cook very good. Real even.
> 
> I really like being able to restart the fire with just coals. Not a huge fan of starting a fire all the time. Super cedars help cut down on the axe work. Lol
> 
> How big of area are you heating?



About 1450 sq/ft. It only reached 8F today, we reloaded at around 9 and it was still 70 inside. The kitchen queen has really lived up to expectations.

I have wondered if part of why the oven works so well is that it also kind of steams the food.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> About 1450 sq/ft. It only reached 8F today, we reloaded at around 9 and it was still 70 inside. The kitchen queen has really lived up to expectations.
> 
> I have wondered if part of why the oven works so well is that it also kind of steams the food.


I wish the KQ wasn't so ugly, I would totally get one.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I wish the KQ wasn't so ugly, I would totally get one.



lol.. they are definitely plain. It is just 1 or 2 amish guys making them.

I will tell you the thing is built like tank, it will last the rest of my lifetime and I think a couple more after that. Not much... probably not anything... you can buy today where you can say that.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> lol.. they are definitely plain. It is just 1 or 2 amish guys making them.
> 
> I will tell you the thing is built like tank, it will last the rest of my lifetime and I think a couple more after that. Not much you can buy today where you can say that.



I agree that it's probably the best all round cook stove on the market if you don't care about how it looks. My wife, and I agree with her, won't let one in the house. Right now my plan for a wood cooker is finding an old Jotul 404 and putting it next to the electric range.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> I agree that it's probably the best all round cook stove on the market if you don't care about how it looks. My wife, and I agree with her, won't let one in the house. Right now my plan for a wood cooker is finding an old Jotul 404 and putting it next to the electric range.



Yeah, some of those old ones are really cool looking. I can't remember the names but they are so ornate. No good for heating though.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> Yeah, some of those old ones are really cool looking. I can't remember the names but they are so ornate. No good for heating though.



Oh the Jotul 404 isn't that old. Most are circa 1999 and UL listed. The old victorian styled stoves are beautiful, but totally impractical in my home. I really like the Esse Ironheart and might pick one up if I can't find a Jotul 404, but the Esse stoves are not cheap. We have a heat stove, so I want the cook stove for cooking, or if it had a hot water hook up I would run the cook stove full time.


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2019)

Have you checked out the Hearthstone Deva 100? It's right sized for heating your place if the kitchen is open to the other rooms.


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## Nateums (Jan 11, 2019)

Oh, I didn't realize jotul made a cook stove that recently. I just googled it, looks like it's the size of an end table.

The Vermont Bun Bakers are nice looking with a small foot print. Sure aren'tcheap though.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

begreen said:


> Have you checked out the Hearthstone Deva 100? It's right sized for heating your place if the kitchen is open to the other rooms.



Are those UL listed? I had seen them, and they do look good, but wasn't sure if it would work in our home. The rear clearance of 16 inches will make it not work so well. I'm not really too concerned with a cook stove that can heat the house, unless it can run my domestic hot water, then we could give the Morso a break and only use it on really cold nights.


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2019)

With double-wall stove pipe it's 14" rear clearance. Closer with protected surfaces. 
https://www.chimneysweeponline.com/chsdeva100.htm


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## SpaceBus (Jan 11, 2019)

begreen said:


> With double-wall stove pipe it's 14" rear clearance.
> https://www.chimneysweeponline.com/chsdeva100.htm



Unfortunately I don't see a UL listing for it so still a no-go in our house. As the house sits almost on the water, insurance is tough as it is. We barely got a policy with a UL listed wood space heater.


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## Joyboy (Jan 11, 2019)

Nateums said:


> About 1450 sq/ft. It only reached 8F today, we reloaded at around 9 and it was still 70 inside. The kitchen queen has really lived up to expectations.
> 
> I have wondered if part of why the oven works so well is that it also kind of steams the food.


They definitely don’t dry out your food like a normal cook stove.


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## begreen (Jan 12, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Unfortunately I don't see a UL listing for it so still a no-go in our house.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 12, 2019)

begreen said:


> View attachment 238010


Wow, I couldn't find that anywhere in the description. That does change things.


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## Joyboy (Jan 22, 2019)

This pioneer bakers choice is for sale about an hour away from me. Probably a pretty decent heating cookstove for 750.  Wish I had a need for it. Maybe I need to build a cabin in the woods somewhere.


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## Wolf1022008 (Jan 22, 2019)

It's been awhile since I posted but I thought I would post some pictures of my Heco 520.this is the first full winter I've used it. This stove is our main source of heat. I get about 12 to 9 hours for burn times. When it's 20 below outside it's 80 in my house


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## Joyboy (Jan 22, 2019)

Wolf1022008 said:


> It's been awhile since I posted but I thought I would post some pictures of my Heco 520.this is the first full winter I've used it. This stove is our main source of heat. I get about 12 to 9 hours for burn times. When it's 20 below outside it's 80 in my house


Nice!  What size of a area are you heating with it?  Doesn’t the Heco have secondary burn tubes in it?


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## Wolf1022008 (Jan 22, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> Nice!  What size of a area are you heating with it?  Doesn’t the Heco have secondary burn tubes in it?


About 1500 sq ft yes it does have secondary reburn tubes


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## Joyboy (Jan 22, 2019)

Wolf1022008 said:


> About 1500 sq ft yes it does have secondary reburn tubes


Does yours have the automatic damper control?  I always wondered how well that works. Definitely looks like you can feed your family.


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## Wolf1022008 (Jan 22, 2019)

Thanksgiving turkey does in the heco


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## Wolf1022008 (Jan 23, 2019)

Joyboy said:


> Does yours have the automatic damper control?  I always wondered how well that works. Definitely looks like you can feed your family.


Yes mine has the automatic damper I love the the thing.i can feed my family and a whole lot more


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## SpaceBus (Jan 23, 2019)

Wolf1022008 said:


> It's been awhile since I posted but I thought I would post some pictures of my Heco 520.this is the first full winter I've used it. This stove is our main source of heat. I get about 12 to 9 hours for burn times. When it's 20 below outside it's 80 in my house



Does this cook stove have the ability to heat domestic hot water?


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## Wolf1022008 (Jan 23, 2019)

Sure does


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## UrbanBrnr (Dec 23, 2019)

Happy Stacker said:


> https://cookstoves.net/de-manincor-cookstoves/


Interesting link about an Italian wood cook stove that has a feature called Ecoplus, that pre-heats outside  primary air under the firebox and heats secondary air to boost efficiency “upwards of 75%.” Another brand that uses outside air if you want to and is EPA certified, is J A Roby.  A business in Montana that primarily sells Wood Cook Stoves is, Obadiah’s. They have many product education videos on YouTube. An owner is a volunteer firefighter that is very fire safety conscious.


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