# Inserts without the surrounds? pics or advice?



## tickbitty (Jan 10, 2010)

I am interested in information and PICS of fireplace inserts where the surrounds were not used.  I know there are a few in here, drdoct has one in his signature and there was another that I saw recently and can't re-find.

We installed our stove today with a full liner.  It's a Lopi Republic 1750 insert.  Decent looking, fairly plain.  I had to go down to get the surround as it just came in (though we got stove last week.)  Because my fireplace is quite large, I had to get the largest surround, 12" on all sides.  THat means that although it will come nearly to touch the wood trim on the sides of the mantel surround, it still isn't quite tall enough to reach the top of the fireplace opening. So I will have to seal that with something (maybe the mantel shield) and there will still be brick showing above on top, but not on the sides. 

I'm not minding the way the stove looks in the fireplace without the surround at all right now and I am thinking of just skipping the surround altogether (too late to get my hundred bucks back on the surround though - oh well.)

We did not build a block off plate for the bottom of the chimney (YET) but would using or not using the surround make any difference with heat retention or loss or draftiness from the chimney?  We should probably do the block off plate regardless, but the installation manual does not show one in this type of installation so the guy installing it for me didn't do one.  If I do one I am figuring I might do it in two pieces so I don't have to take the liner off the top of the stove to get it in.

If anyone has any pics or advice for me on this let me know.  I would definitely need to make a curved black thing to block the bright silver flex liner as a foot or more of it is showing at present.


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## Funk Brother (Jan 10, 2010)

TB - Here's a start, though lacking in pictures:  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/45035/ 
In short, my advice would be: "no" to the surround, "yes" to the block off plate - (I did mine in two pieces just as you have described).
Good luck.


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## Captain Hornet (Jan 10, 2010)

We took our surround off when we installed our liner.   We found that ours puts out a whole lot more heat without the surround and I think it looks much better also. Make sure you put in a good block off plate down at the stove end of the chimney. When you do that, there is really no reason to put the surround back in.  What you have really done is turned a poor heating insert into a efficient free standing stove.  David


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## Captain Hornet (Jan 10, 2010)

Second pix


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## gibson (Jan 10, 2010)

I may be wrong on this but I believe that the Lopi inserts are actually the same as the freestanding, although without the surround.


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## tickbitty (Jan 10, 2010)

Cool, thank you folks for responding and especially for posting the pictures.  I like this idea more and more.  Our fireplace looks much better without the fireplace doors that were on it before too.  It's all sooty inside but I kind of like the way it looks!  I really would have preferred a hearth stove but the clearances just wouldn't have worked, so I think this is near the same thing. 
Bluto, It's actually the Avalon stoves that are the same freestanding or insert, not the Lopi, but they are both made by Travis.  The Lopi freestandings are step-top stoves and the inserts are not, but they aren't terrible looking or anything either so I think it makes a fair looking hearth mount.  Legless, and with a blower, but it ought to crank some heat!

Here were a couple images I found in my searching.  
This one is from this site, on the galleries pages:





This one I found online randomly





And I am still searching for a cool one I saw on here last night - someone who had a string of dried chili peppers hanging up on their hearth, where did it go?!  Found it!  (or is that Okra?!)




(It's weird that all the ones I was able to find on my own were Lopis?)  I see the ones you other folks did look nice that way too!


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## Lburg (Jan 10, 2010)

I had the same problem when I bought my Regency I2400.  I had a sheet of 16 gauge steel cut to fit.  It cost $50.00.


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## tickbitty (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice!  How did you seal and/or anchor it in there?  Or did you?


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## Lburg (Jan 10, 2010)

I didn't.  The insert holds it in place.


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## ce208b (Jan 11, 2010)

I just put this one in last month.


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## FireAnt (Jan 11, 2010)

ce208b said:
			
		

> I just put this one in last month.




What stove is that ce208b?


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

ce208b, that looks great!  We have a pretty nice collection of these on here now in case anyone ever wants to see this kind of thing again!


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## trouba (Jan 11, 2010)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> Cool, thank you folks for responding and especially for posting the pictures.  I like this idea more and more.  Our fireplace looks much better without the fireplace doors that were on it before too.  It's all sooty inside but I kind of like the way it looks!  I really would have preferred a hearth stove but the clearances just wouldn't have worked, so I think this is near the same thing.
> Bluto, It's actually the Avalon stoves that are the same freestanding or insert, not the Lopi, but they are both made by Travis.  The Lopi freestandings are step-top stoves and the inserts are not, but they aren't terrible looking or anything either so I think it makes a fair looking hearth mount.  Legless, and with a blower, but it ought to crank some heat!
> 
> Here were a couple images I found in my searching.
> ...



Sorry I own a Lopi and according to their web site the stoves are all the same insert/hearth and free standing, same stove.


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Trouba, yes, for the most part, but not exactly the same.  Same firebox, mostly the same exterior too, but not exactly.  In the Avalon stoves it is like the same EXACT stove, but with legs or a pedestal.  With this Lopi, for example, the Republic 1750, the stove is a slight step top while the insert is not, and is made to put the surround on.  Plus on the insert there is a top damper, while on the same stove, that control is somewhere else (I don't know where, on the side or something?)  So even though it's the same, it's not quite the SAME same.


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

The differences in person are more extreme than they appear in the diagrams above, but you get the point.  As far as functionality, I do think that the insert will work pretty much similarly with or without the insert and that it will work pretty similarly to the stove.  I am not sure if you could just put the stove flat on the floor with no legs, maybe you could but I don't know. (on a pad or whatever, I mean.)


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## ce208b (Jan 11, 2010)

FireAnt said:
			
		

> ce208b said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's a Buck Model 74


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Nice looking Buck!


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## trouba (Jan 11, 2010)

I was told my Lopi Answer was the same exact same stove free standing or insert, I guess I can not speak for the rest but my owners manual shows both ways to install including putting on the legs or pedestal if its not going to be an insert.


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Huh, well that would be pretty neat.  The Answer is a nice compact stove so you must be right.  I was looking for something a little larger, like the revere, and the republic is just the no-frills version of that.  I think the Avalon Ranier is similar in size and if the stove shop I bought mine at had one of those that I could see I would have considered it, I don't like the look of the avalons quite as much but it does seem really neat that if you moved or something you could completely convert the stove.... like if I moved somewhere without a fireplace I could just get some legs and install the pipe and pad and be good to go.  Seems like a great option.


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## drdoct (Jan 11, 2010)

Tickbitty, not sure if you decided on the surround or not, but I suggest you go ahead and do the block off plate and clean your fireplace anyway.  It's not too bad to clean the fireplace.  What I did was scrape and brush all the heavy places then vacuum the floor good.  The brush I used was one of those nylon type scrub brushes.  Then I sprayed the whole inside with easy off oven cleaner and let it sit for an hour.  Then I just scrubbed it again and used paper towels (lots) to get the layer of gunk off.  Then a bucket of water and scrub brush to clean it all up (could also use a spray bottle with water in it) until it's where you want it clean wise.  The dirtiest part is cleaning off the easy off.  After you get the blockoff plate in and notice how ugly your liner is sitting in there you can go buy a piece of 8" black stove pipe and cut it to fit over the liner.  It finishes it nicely.


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Haven't decided for sure about the surround or not, but if I have it my way we won't use it.  Drdoct, you should put up a bigger pic of yours to go with all the others here!  We will probably do the block off plate, but for now we just wanted to get it up and running, and it is!  Yay!  Will definitely get a pc of black pipe to cover the liner, since it's insulated and all it looks pretty giant and silver and definitely needs to be covered.  Don't think I can get the fireplace all that clean without moving the stove at this point and since we just got it hooked up I am reluctant to move it now!  Maybe at the end of the season.  Fireplace does look blackened inside similar to a few of the ones I pasted in above, but I kind of like the way it looks and it's not loose or crumbly or anything so I don't mind letting it be for now.  

It is super cold out and we haven't noticed any draft from the chimney around the stove, (when the stove is cold) but I do think that the block off plate would eliminate some additional heat loss so it's on the list.  Will have to be done in two pcs though to get it around the pipe, and after I get some insulation blanket.  THanks drdoct I am happy to have (finally) joined the Lopi club.


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Dr.doct, what did you cut the pipe to length with, (the black pipe to hide the liner I mean) and did you secure it on the liner at all or does it just sit there?


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2010)

> Haven’t decided for sure about the surround or not, but if I have it my way we won’t use it.  Drdoct, you should put up a bigger pic of yours to go with all the others here!



Speaking of pictures... did I miss that post?


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2010)

Lol.  Was waiting on that till the rest of my stuff comes in.  Hearth extender and mantel shield are not here yet and we are doing some "make do" things in the meantime that don't look so nice.  Not that my house is such a showplace anyway... but I want to have my real setup before I take pics.  End of the week, I hope.  I'll put it on here to go with the others!


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## bodhran (Feb 9, 2010)

I took the surround off my Regency I1200 and the difference in the heat is amazing.What a waste before. All day with the fire going I'd struggle to get 20c out of it and now with no fan on I'm hitting temps of 23-24c.


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## bodhran (Feb 9, 2010)

This is the pic of my insert


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## drdoct (Feb 9, 2010)

Here's a picture of what I've done with the black pipe.  It just sits there.  Don't even have it snapped together.  I just cut it with tin snips (it's just sheet metal) and put it in.  It's a perfect fit because it doesn't move or anything once it's in place.  I do have a blockoff plate with over 1" of ceramic insulation (like used in kilns) on top of it.  I edited this to include:  The reason I went with the black pipe is because I tried to spray paint the stainless liner but the silver kept shinning through even after 5 coats.


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## RIJEEP (Feb 9, 2010)

Heres another pic for you.  Firebox painted flat black, as well as the chimney liner.


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## RIJEEP (Feb 9, 2010)

sorry hit send x 2


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## bokehman (Feb 9, 2010)




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## tickbitty (Feb 10, 2010)

Awesome guys, thank you!  We should move some of these to the picture thread at some point so ppl can get a good idea by seeing a LOT of them at once.  I really like the look of these!  That was what I decided to do too.  No pics yet, because SOMEONE keeps forgetting to bring the camera home and the cell phone camera won't work in low light.

DrDoct, I did the same thing with the black pipe over the liner to mask it.  I think I got the idea from you.  I used that insulated liner so it is a thick, 7"plus aluminium on the outside, I did not even attempt to paint it.  The local Ace had a 1' tall pc of black pipe with an open edge that fit exactly in the space I had.  The back is open but you can't see it - it looks just like yours.  Your Gold lopi door sure beats my flat black Republic though - oh well!

And my fireplace setup looks almost identical to yours RIJEEP!  Just a different color tile. (and my stove sticks out more)

Bokehman, nice setup especially the wonderful singing cute kids!!  What are they singing? (I know besos are kisses!)

Bodrhan, did you have to chop out the top of the fireplace to hook the stove up?  Interesting that you are getting more heat now.


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## bodhran (Feb 10, 2010)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> Awesome guys, thank you!  We should move some of these to the picture thread at some point so ppl can get a good idea by seeing a LOT of them at once.  I really like the look of these!  That was what I decided to do too.  No pics yet, because SOMEONE keeps forgetting to bring the camera home and the cell phone camera won't work in low light.
> 
> DrDoct, I did the same thing with the black pipe over the liner to mask it.  I think I got the idea from you.  I used that insulated liner so it is a thick, 7"plus aluminium on the outside, I did not even attempt to paint it.  The local Ace had a 1' tall pc of black pipe with an open edge that fit exactly in the space I had.  The back is open but you can't see it - it looks just like yours.  Your Gold lopi door sure beats my flat black Republic though - oh well!
> 
> ...




That was done when I had to take the damper out about 10 years ago, I made the hole a little too big.I was using a Century piece of junk insert from Sears. As far as the heat difference I can tell you its like being in a different house. With the surround on and burning seasoned birch and fan on high speed I was lucky to get 20c in the house,which would drop to 14c in the mornings when the fire was out. Now I'm burning what they call 'grey timber' wood from where a forest fire went thru. Its all spruce and quite dry. The heat without the fan going is plenty for me, between 22 and 24c with a moderate fire going. The pic will show you where my insert is in relation to my house.Opposite where the pic was taken there are three bedrooms and one bathroom and the kitchen and dining room are to the left of the pic...its a bungalow approx 1100 square feet in total.


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## bokehman (Feb 10, 2010)

tickbitty said:
			
		

> Bokehman, nice setup especially the wonderful singing cute kids!!  What are they singing? (I know besos are kisses!)


It's just some silly rhyme they learnt at school about kissing their mum, dad, granny, etc.

With my setup I did intend to close it in but after I ran the stove a few times I realized how much heat there was to be had. The external sheet metal skin around the insert that channels the air gets to around 400ºF and the liner puts out loads too so I made a vent (6" x 6") in the chimney chase just below ceiling level and now there is a convection current up around the flue pipe and back in the room. Air re-entering the room through the vent is around 200ºF. It's not a fire path either because it is all within the same room.


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## tickbitty (Aug 23, 2010)

Someone recently asked for a pic of my stove so I took this very terrible summer pic of new(ish) stove and extremely old dog, to add to the forum here.  It's a cell phone pic so it's pretty bad but you get the idea.  
Little wood chairs will obviously not be near stove while it's burning.  Dog might be.   Yes, we left the ash in the stove.  It adds ambiance. Ha.

I hid the liner with a little section of stove pipe like drdoct did, above.  It hardly shows when you are standing up but I got way down to take this picture on a level with the stove.  I am quite pleased with the look of the stove.  I'll take more pictures with a better camera "someday."  This one had to be overexposed a bit to show the stove in the fireplace so the stove looks dusty, it's not, it's quite spiffy.

If anyone wants the "large" size 12" surround it's still in the box, I'll make you a good deal on it!  It would have barely covered the opening on top, but almost completely covered the bricks side to side, so I don't think it would have looked that good.  I like this look better.


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## tickbitty (Sep 14, 2010)

RIJEEP said:
			
		

> Heres another pic for you.  Firebox painted flat black, as well as the chimney liner.








Here's RIJEEP's setup from a different angle. (just ran across it on a different thread)


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## KB007 (Sep 14, 2010)

Here's our Regency I3100 with and without the surround.  I had the same thoughts about leaving it off, but decided eventually to put the surround on.  In our case there was very little visible of the opening without the surround.  I was also able to re-use the brass trim from the old gas insert which gives it a nice finished look with the gold door. As for heat output - it is immense from the I3100, don't think I'll need to remove the surround to get any more heat :0


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## Chargerman (Sep 14, 2010)

I did not like the look of the metal surround with my insert because of hearth and mantle setup my fireplace has. In addition, the Country Flame does a good job of filling up the 40" opening so there was not much room left to cover up.

My solution was to use some scrap marble pieces that I found and cut them to fit. I like the look and better yet my wife was happy with it.


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## begreen (Sep 14, 2010)

Nice job chargerman. It finished out very nicely.


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## tickbitty (Sep 14, 2010)

KB007, interesting to see both of your pics.  I agree that in your case the surround hilights the stove, kind of like a mat on a picture frame, and goes nicely with your shiny black hearth!

And Chargerman, that marble looks awesome against the brick!

Looks like the "sans surround" thing is often chosen with fireplaces similar to mine, that have a traditional mantel surround.


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## KB007 (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks - looking at the pics side by side the surround sorta makes the whole insert look wider and not so tall - optical illusion kind of thing.  The hearth is a piece of granite counter that I had made, was thinking abou tiles for quite a while then woke up one day with an inspiration (wish I could remember what I was drinking the night before)

Chargerman: that marble does look nice - is it basically 3 pieces the top cut with the notches?  How did you attach to the brick?


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## KB007 (Sep 15, 2010)

What I find is the ones where the opening is significantly larger than the stove/insert look great with a very retro 1800s kind of feel.  Where the insert mostly fills the opening it looks a little "unfinished" in my mind's eye and I like it with a surround of some sort (def like that marble, I could easily see replacing my metal surround with some nice marble/granite in the future)


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## Chargerman (Sep 15, 2010)

KB007 said:
			
		

> Chargerman: that marble does look nice - is it basically 3 pieces the top cut with the notches?  How did you attach to the brick?



I got the marble from a bank that was remodeled. The top piece is 45" across and 2" thick. One side already had the "notch" so I duplicated it on the other side. It is very heavy and simply rests on top of the stove. It does not move at all without serious effort. I originally intended to pin the side 1 1/4" pieces to the top but after cutting small notches in the side pieces to go around the stove top flange and "wedging" them in under the top piece during the test fitting I discovered they will not move unless the top is taken off first. So to answer the question they are not attached to the brick at all. One winter of 24/7 burning and they are still in the same spot they started in.


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## tickbitty (Sep 15, 2010)

And they add thermal mass!  Oooh, what if they were made of soapstone!


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## tickbitty (Dec 8, 2010)

Yet another example I just ran across, and it's another Lopi!  This one is from a thread by bimmerFAITH!  (I note now, it's not actually hooked up though, just sitting in there)






Just found another one on hearth...





belongs to Stegus, who posted it here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/80548/P44/





Belongs to hearth member bokehman  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30833/





Belongs to pr0vidence who posted it here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30833/


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## EJL923 (Dec 8, 2010)

This is my Jotul, being flush, i didnt notice a different in heat with our without the surround.  It sure is pretty with it on though.


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## burleymike (Dec 8, 2010)

I ran mine for a while with the surround and then for a week with it off.  I noticed a small difference in heat output.  However I noticed that the brick/tile  above the insert stays a lot cooler without the surround.  My wife really wanted the surround back on because we only have about 3" between the stove and the fireplace so it looks funny.  I put it back on but moved it forward about 1" so it is not flush with the tile.  Now the brick stays cooler which makes me happy since I don't know how the wall is framed behind that brick and I know I am getting more heat.


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## RedGuy (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't have a surround, but I don't exactly have an insert either. I also have a large fireplace and I decided to install a freestanding stove in my fireplace as an insert.


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## WoodpileOCD (Jan 10, 2012)

got here from another thread on surrounds so I thought I would bump it with a picture of mine sans surround.   I like the look much better and I believe I get more heat.


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## Corey (Jan 10, 2012)

Couple of shots.  Overall, I think I like mine much better without a surround.











I didn't like the archway painted black as much as I thought I would - so I painted it in fleckstone to match the rest of the rock...


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## VCBurner (Jan 10, 2012)

Hey there, I would put in a block off plate, regardless of having a surround or not. To me, that would be the number one step to prevent heat loss. It amazes me that dealers are willing to install appliances without a block off plate. I guess anything to save a buck. Even if the manual doesn't specifically state the need, heat is still being lost by just being stored in your chimney. As far as the surround, you could buy a piece of sheet metal and paint it with stove black in order to hide the brick and fill in the gap at the top. Although I'm a big fan of freestanding stoves due to their ability to heat during power outages. Sounds like lots of folks here have no need for their surrounds, so if it doesn't look bad maybe go with it! 
Take care


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## tickbitty (Jan 11, 2012)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> I didn't like the archway painted black as much as I thought I would - so I painted it in fleckstone to match the rest of the rock...



Agreed, it looks great painted to match the stone, very nice~!


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## Excavator (Jan 11, 2012)

I also have a wood stove setting on hearth and love it and no surrounds.
In second pic you can see where I have a large metal sheet under stove legs to help distribute the weight of the heavy Vermont Castings Encore










I made my own block off plate after removing the damper and chipping out some firebrick to allow straight drop of 8 inch liner


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