# HOW TO REMOVE MY TOO-BIG HEARTH-HELP!



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

I have a large wood-burning fireplace with a hearth that takes up too much of my floor-space- I am in the process of installing (interior) concrete floors in my house and was thinking that I might like to GET RID of my hearth entirely. I figured that my new flooring choice will be able to handle any fireplace "pops" without damaging my flooring. I have two questions: is this a bad idea, and if so, WHY (is there some other use for a hearth that I am unaware of) and if it's not a bad idea, how on earth do i go about removing the brick hearth from my house (on a cement block). ???


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Jan 19, 2010)

A consideration when removing the hearth is radiant heat going through the floor and cooking the wood below it.  The only way to tell if this will be an issue with your project is to know what will be under the new floor... Do you have a basement?  Wood floor joists?

Matt


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for the quick response. My house is on a cement/concrete block- it's a single floor ranch style home, so there is no wood in my flooring at all. The radiant heating is in the form of the "mats" over which 1/4" of concrete will be poured. I don't have to lay the mats in front of the fireplace (with removed hearth) if I don't want to or shouldn't do so.


----------



## fossil (Jan 19, 2010)

Jackhammer.  It'll be a real mess.  Hearing protection and respirator absolute musts.  Don't be surprised to find that the pretty brick shell that you see is actually filled with all sorts of rubble...rocks, concrete blocks, gravel, whatever.  You'll likely do some cosmetic damage to the underlying slab and leave some mortar on it in spots. That can all be cleaned up/patched.  Probably some detail work with hammer & chisel.  Then you'll need to decide how best to finish the newly exposed rough vertical surface beneath the firebox opening.  All this is assuming I've pictured it accurately in my mind (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't).  Good luck.  Rick

ETA:  You can rent a 110v. electric jackhammer at any decently equipped tool rental place.


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 19, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Jackhammer.  It'll be a real mess.  Hearing protection and respirator absolute musts.  Don't be surprised to find that the pretty brick shell that you see is actually filled with all sorts of rubble...rocks, concrete blocks, gravel, whatever.  You'll likely do some cosmetic damage to the underlying slab and leave some mortar on it in spots. That can all be cleaned up/patched.  Probably some detail work with hammer & chisel.  Then you'll need to decide how best to finish the newly exposed rough vertical surface beneath the firebox opening.  All this is assuming I've pictured it accurately in my mind (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't).  Good luck.  Rick
> 
> ETA:  You can rent a 110v. electric jackhammer at any decently equipped tool rental place.



I found that when I removed my hearth, the builders had done exactly that, used the space as a dumping ground for rubble.  The removal was so easy that my 5 year old went to town with a hammer and chisel and removed the entire lot.  He enjoyed the demolition part immensely.


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

One clarification- I meant to include that in the concrete flooring I will also be installing radiant floor heating in the form of mats. Would this be a problem? Again, the concrete will be poured on top of the mats.

I think you are picturing it correctly- it's a monstrosity of a fireplace, essentially a huge "box" jutting out from my wall (house was built in the late 70's), and the hearth itself is made up of a single layer of bricks, about 2 1/2 to 3 bricks deep. To add to the problem, there are also a few "integral" (or so it appears) bricks jutting out of the facade, supporting the wood mandle (a slab of wood, essentially). I would like to get rid of this as well. Any thoughts?

With regard to what do to with the space below the firebox opening...I was thinking of doing some sort of stone veneer on top of the brick, but was worried that that might make my fireplace appear even BIGGER (ugh)- I have no experience in any of this so any thoughts/advice would be most helpful.  The hearth just takes up even more space- the whole thing is a monster!


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

This is something I can do myself without damaging my concrete slab beneath?


----------



## billb3 (Jan 19, 2010)

This  fireplace is also supporting a chimney with just one flue ?


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 19, 2010)

jrb514 said:
			
		

> This is something I can do myself without damaging my concrete slab beneath?



Correct.  In my case my hearth was 3 bricks high. 6 bricks deep and 8 foot long.  My son started at one of the corners at the front with a chisel and a maul and we individually removed each brick.  about 6 bricks into it he hit it pretty hard and the whole front face pealed off.

I am at work now, yet if you are interested I could send you all the pictures of the projects progress, when I get home.  The underlying floor had nothing adhered to it at all.


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

The fireplace is brick from floor to ceiling on all 3 sides...the "chimney" that comes out of my roof is a pipe-type thing with a fake brick surround on the roof.  If I had to guess, I'd say that the fireplace "box" juts out about 3+ feet, is about 3 1/2+ feet "wide" and is 8 feet high. I believe the brick stops at the ceiling and the flue (or pipe) continues out of my roof. Again, the hearth is only one single layer of bricks that jut out about another 2 feet.


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

I'd love that. Please do so. I'm going to go home tonight and take measurements and photos of my monster. I just got started thinking about this today because I'm going to have to sign my floor contract soon (to do the interior concrete) and if I remove the hearth, it will have to be before the floor goes down. 

Any thoughts (anyone??) on the bricks jutting out to support the mantle?


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 19, 2010)

And THANK YOU to anyone/everyone who is offering their insight. This is the most useful forum I've ever come across!


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, finally figured out how to reduce file sizes for posting.  There will be a couple of posts, so here goes.


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

here are some more...


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

And here are the last of them.


----------



## Shari (Jan 20, 2010)

rayza,

Looking good there!  We have to cut a bit out of our hardwood floor for our upcoming Oslo install.  What tool did you use to cut your floor?

Shari


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

I have concrete under hard wood floor.  The toughest part of the whole schbang was putting the Dremel through the floor the first time for the creation of the ellipse (being a surveyor, I was quite anal in ensuring that the measurements were spot on).  Yet it was real quick in the end.  

I see that you are only in DC so your getting the brunt of the same cold weather 

Let me know if you need any more images.

Ray


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

Shari said:
			
		

> rayza,
> 
> Looking good there!  We have to cut a bit out of our hardwood floor for our upcoming Oslo install.  What tool did you use to cut your floor?
> 
> Shari




Hey Shari

I used the second to cheapest dremel that I could find.  I did go through 3 wood cutting bits though.  The little buzz box went through the stuff like a hot knife through butter. It turned out ok though.
Ray


----------



## RonB (Jan 20, 2010)

Nice job there Rayza.  The end result is much better looking than I could have imagined!


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 20, 2010)

The work you did on your fireplace looks great- I wouldn't have thought to do something like that. It also looks like the brick you exposed by removing the hearth (on the face of the fireplace under the firebox opening) wasn't at all damaged- am I correct in this deduction?  I'm attaching some photos of my fireplace-


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 20, 2010)

Notice the bricks supporting the mantle-I want to remove these also...but am a bit worried that doing so will mess up the facade of the fireplace..


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 20, 2010)

Ray-if you wouldn't mind- can you walk me through your hearth removal process, including which tools you used? Thanks a bunch-
Jessica


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

Sure, no worries.  Its pretty simple.

Go to home depot and you will want to get yourself 2 Cold Chisels (a 1" blade - stands about 14" high and has an orange hand protector around the top{you can see it in my photos if you look closely}, and also 4" blade  - this one will be short and stubby).  Also get yourself a 5lb maul, don't forget gloves and most importantly safety glasses.


Start off with the 1" Blade Cold Chisel on the first mortar joint in from the side.  And start right on the front edge then give it a mighty wallop.  It might take several blows before it starts to crack, yet it will crack.  When it does move the blade of the Chisel down the crack in the mortar joint toward the glass fireplace doors. The more you hit the more the crack will expand.  When you reach the cross mortar joint, where it the second brick begins stop and then move back to the outside of the mortar joint and start from the outside and work in.  I've marked up your photo and will send it you as a PM so you can see where the start points are.
Once you have the first two mortar joints cracked then, from the looks of your photo, you are going to have to pickup the 4" cold chisel and start right on the very edge at the underside  and give it another couple of good hits.  
You are going to have to remove it brick by brick, yet once you have removed the first 3 or 4 you should find that it should go real quick, to get all the bricks out.  If the bricks are tough to remove, you will find it easier to remove them in a staggered pattern, this will then expose 2 side and give you an outside corner to get the 4" under.
Don't worry about the concrete floor if it ends up with mortar chunks on it, residue from where the bricks stuck down, that is where the 4" comes in.  A hefty 'angled' thump at the base of the chuck will clean it right off the underlying concrete.

From go to woe, it should take you less than an hour to beat the bricks out of there.  Another hour or so to beat the chunks of mortar off and then another hour removing debris and hitting it with the vacum cleaner.

Remember, your best friend is your 5lb maul.  If a brick is really solid beat the brick with the hammer from the side to 'soften' the mortar up a little bit and then use the 1" cold chisel.

By the looks of it, your fireplace door are like mine were.  The glass is not built for heat and they will shatter if hot.  They are ornamental in nature only.  therefore, when running your fireplace always leave the doors open.


As for your mantle, remove the flat wood part (looks like wood) this will be held on either by 2 bolts or a couple of screws.  It's 50/50 if they have gone through the bottom or top. Once the actual 'mantle' is remove then the braces are next it looks like the braces are the bottom brick is half in the wall and half out.  This is the last one to be removed. the top brick is removed in the same way as the floor bricks.  Use the 1" chisel on front face of the mortar joint. Then the sides, lastly the top.  the bottom brick, of course is the hardest one of the whole schbang.  Get your 4" Chisel and place it in the juncture where the brick meets the wall and (you are going to chop the brick off here) angle the 4" chisel so that you are running along the wall, remember you want to be right in the juncture of the joint.  Give it a medium powered hit and then move to the other side of the brick and do the backwards hit.  Then the Top and then the bottom (might be beneficial to have some hold the edge just in case the remains lands on your toe.  If your brick survives all 4 hits then start the process again and until it shears off (Most brick layers I've seen do it in two or three knocks, so us layman will probably do it in double or then some).  What will probably happen is that the brick will come off, yet it will leave a little pyramid (just beat it off with the 4" and the maul).

I should be a good morning project.  Let us know how you get on.

Ray


----------



## r_d_gard (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, the site won't let me post a pdf, so here is my best attempt to lable your picture.


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 20, 2010)

How on earth do you know how to do all of this?

I think it will be much more than a morning project, knowing me- and I'm not getting any help! I'll let you know how it goes, it'll probably be a weekend project.


----------



## jrb514 (Jan 20, 2010)

Could you email that labeled photo to me? jrb514@hotmail.com I can't get the thumbnail to enlarge.


----------



## annette (Jan 20, 2010)

I think that if you remove the mantel, your fireplace will be more monolithic.  A strong horizontal line mitigates it.  You could use photo software to copy some brick and cover over the mantel to get an idea of how it would look.  I would replace the mantel with something a little bigger, myself.  Something more in scale with the big fireplace--and room for more/bigger stockings 


Is the concrete going on your floor just for adding the radiant heat, or is it possibly also to deal with moisture issues?  My house is on a slab, and I don't know what to do about the moisture.


Be sure to post lots of photos for us, as you progress and then finish up!  If you stick around here, there will be a woodstove in front of it by the time you're done.


----------

