# My take on the Shoulder Season Fire.



## pen (Sep 18, 2011)

Not saying this is the right way / best way / or anything other than this is how I do it.  

As a note to all who are just starting with their passion for burning wood, the shoulder season is the most difficult time to burn in because of starting fires in a cold stove w/ no / little ashes and no hot coals.  Reduced draft from warmer than average temps, typically a less than full firebox, etc.  Don't get frustrated, just enjoy the experimentation and remember that difficulty is part of the learning process.  This is NOT how I built my fire a few years ago.  Trying new things is part of the game.  You'll need to find what works best for you, your stove, and your chimney.

The foundation.





Kindling added.  I usually tip it to a 45 degree angle so that more surface area was is on the wood.  I wanted you to see the size / density better.  Plus I used extra paper tonight since I was messing w/ the camera.




The knots of newspaper.  (Thanks Vanessa)




Paper almost gone.  Elapsed time is probably less than 5 minutes.  The door was slightly cracked until now. 




Magic happening.




Fire moving down into the wood pile




~25 mins later.  Stove top ~450 which will be maintained for a bit more than an hour then things will start to drop.  As a note, I added one more small / med piece to the top of the burn pile once my kindling had completely disappeared just to even out the top a bit and hold things together.  Additionally, this is how I start all my fires.  If this were the dead of winter I would be loading the stove to the gills about another 10 mins after this picture.  Also, with a small fire like this my draft never gets shut more than 2/3 to 3/4 at most.  When the big boy is eating a full meal in cold weather, it's draft may be close to being completely closed.  




pen


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 18, 2011)

Yeah. Pretty sure this is replacing the Vig next season.


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## cptoneleg (Sep 18, 2011)

Looks good pen thanks, will try that bottom down thing.  Would be too hot for these brekin fires, but will try later:


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## Shadow&Flame (Sep 18, 2011)

I guess I am going to have to get pretty good at shoulder season burning...that will be the majority of burning for me I think.  Weather is pretty mild here...but I am ready for when those ice storms move in thou...

Thanks for sharing Pen...


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## samhoff2 (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks for sharing.  I always enjoy pics.

Sam


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 18, 2011)

Shadow&Flame; said:
			
		

> I guess I am going to have to get pretty good at shoulder season burning...that will be the majority of burning for me I think.  Weather is pretty mild here...but I am ready for when those ice storms move in thou...
> 
> Thanks for sharing Pen...




Worse case is you open a window.


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## cptoneleg (Sep 18, 2011)

Shadow&Flame; said:
			
		

> I guess I am going to have to get pretty good at shoulder season burning...that will be the majority of burning for me I think.  Weather is pretty mild here...but I am ready for when those ice storms move in thou...
> 
> Thanks for sharing Pen...






  Spent a few yrs in Batesville, building a lime plant before I retired as prject supt'  loved it there, parked my camper at the BUBBA HUT, BUTT UGLY BIKERS from BATESVILLE ARKANSAS
clubhouse had a ball made real friends.

  Really enjoyed today had friends come by played cards with windows open 60* outside burning poplar (tulup) 2nd yr burning one of these new EPA stoves  they are a real pleasure when you learn how to operate them.  Same old story dry wood or well seasoned is the cats ASS


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## Shadow&Flame (Sep 18, 2011)

BBAR- Might have to do that...this season will be the learning curve for next year.
If it gets too hot this year, I will put in a return air to my central unit and run the fan allot...
Hope I can make it work with a few tricks thou...

cptoneleg- My Brother lives in Batesville...he really likes it there.  
Well I have the wood so I got half the battle won anyway. Still need 
a nice woodshed thou...hate having wood stacked all over the place 
trying to keep it under cover.


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## soupy1957 (Sep 18, 2011)

I dunno...........for "me" ...........I like the idea of burying the newspaper UNDER the kindling, and putting mid-size splits over the kindling (along with a Super Cedar in quarters in the 4 corners of the pile), on top of that in a criss-cross pattern.  Seems to start up fine, and keeps the newspaper pieces from flying around, and up the flue.

As for "shoulder season," ............the biggest issue I've found, is over-heating the house. Starting a fire on a cool morning is fine, but I let them go out by 9 AM or so, rather than keep feeding it. 

-Soupy1957


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## GAMMA RAY (Sep 18, 2011)

Bud light last night eh? :cheese: 

Thanks for sharing your technique and pics pen.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 18, 2011)

wow. Nice pics Pen. You are a firm believer in top down fires eh? I tried it a couple of times and the fire went out before the splits could catch!

Thanks again!

Andrew


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## fishingpol (Sep 18, 2011)

Try the top-down method a few more times.  The kindling on top pre-heats the flue and there is less smoke to start, especially if using a Supercedar chunk on top.  I've converted and will not go back anytime soon.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 18, 2011)

I will certainly give me a few more tries. With a bypass damper, my flu will warm up much faster for the first few minutes. Hard to believe that it actually works.... It's the complete opposite of what we learned in the past.

Andrew


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## Pagey (Sep 18, 2011)

Nice fire and a nice series of photos!


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## fishingpol (Sep 18, 2011)

I thought the same, until I tried it.  I don't know if it makes sense or not.  On the bottom-up starts, I would have to open the stove to add more splits after 15 minutes or so when the kindling has burned down.  With top-down, the splits are already on the bottom and I don't have to go to the stove except to damper down a little bit.  It just made running the stove a little easier.


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## Woody Stover (Sep 18, 2011)

I haven't done the top-down starting method yet, but I'm wondering if it'll get the top of the stove and the combustor hot faster, allowing me to engage sooner...


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## colin.p (Sep 18, 2011)

soupy1957 said:
			
		

> As for "shoulder season," ............the biggest issue I've found, is over-heating the house. Starting a fire on a cool morning is fine, but I let them go out by 9 AM or so, rather than keep feeding it.
> 
> -Soupy1957



I wish my daughter would do that. At this time of the year, I get it going before leaving for work, and when I get home, it's over 90 in the house. By the afternoon, it gets warm outside, but no, she likes to keep it going all day. It looks pretty scary, me sitting at the computer in my underwear with the fan blowing.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 18, 2011)

GAMMA RAY said:
			
		

> Bud light last night eh? :cheese:



I am thinking Busch Light here.


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## NH_Wood (Sep 18, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> GAMMA RAY said:
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100% Busch Light - we need a 'beer can id' thread in addition to the wood id threads..........
P.S. if you gots to go Busch, you gots to go Busch HEAVY! Cheers!


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## raybonz (Sep 18, 2011)

Great pics Penn! How does the beer can come into play here? One thing I notice with the T-5 is too many small splits make the stove get too hot.. I have been using 1/4 of a  Super Cedar and close the door with max air and it takes right off.. My stove top got to 700 in about 1 hr. with air set at 1/4 setting.. I reduced the air to minimum setting and it settled down.. Just ordered a new Condar thermometer calibrated for stove top temps for $16.99 w/ free shipping at e-bay cuz my thermometer is reading ~150 degrees hotter then actual temp.. 

Ray


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## GAMMA RAY (Sep 18, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> GAMMA RAY said:
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HMMM, I stand corrected big guy...you will have to excuse my ignorance...I don't drink those "LIGHT" beers... :coolsmirk: 
They're for wussies... ;-)


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## laynes69 (Sep 18, 2011)

I do the same thing when starting our furnace. Top down works every time with little to no smoke. I like it because it preheats the baffle and burn tubes. As the fire burns it feeds itself. I've had a few fires at night, we are burning limbwood now.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 18, 2011)

Pen, that is a good selection of pictures on how you start your fires. Some day I may have to do some pictures on how I do it too. However, we usually don't have beer cans in our stove. 

Thanks for posting.


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## leeave96 (Sep 18, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> The foundation.



Is the can really beer or it is a beer can full of kersene or are you burning the aluminum can to get rid of the creosote in your chimney cause you read it on the Hearth forum..... 

I'm hoping to have my Englander 30 installed before the end of the month - looking forward to giving it a workout.

Thanks!
Bill


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## pen (Sep 19, 2011)

A few clarifications:

1.  The busch light is there because that is what the wife brings home from the grocery store.  She doesn't complain that I go through a 30 wacker a week so I don't complain about what's on sale!  I hope to see the day that Sierra Nevada comes home with the groceries in more than 6 pack form.  

2.  The reason the beer was in the stove was to help give some size estimate to the wood that I have in there.  I don't generally burn beer cans, especially when full.  

3.  While I've used super cedars and they work great, I just don't find that I need them.  W/ my climate I only have to start a few fires in the spring and fall, and then burn Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb 24/7.  Considering that it's just not worth it for me to use them, although I usually keep a few around in case the wife wants to use 1/4.  Using a full super cedar to get a fire going is a waste in my opinion.

4.  There are 12 thousand, million, zillion, variations on how to start the stove.  I just thought these might help out someone who was struggling in that they could try what works for me then adjust it to their situation.  However, if you need more than 1/4 of a super cedar perhaps you need to reevaluate how you are loading the thing.

5.  Gamma, the light beer isn't a preference, it's a quantity issue 

pen


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## Pagey (Sep 19, 2011)

*Quietly sips a Yuengling Black & Tan*


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 19, 2011)

Pagey said:
			
		

> *Quietly sips a Yuengling Black & Tan*




I like Yuengling. In PA it escapes a lot of taxes since it's brewed here. One of the cheaper beers you can buy here.


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## cptoneleg (Sep 19, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Pagey said:
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Is that not the oldest brewery in US ?


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## pen (Sep 19, 2011)

meanwhile, back at the ranch.......

pen


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## Todd (Sep 19, 2011)

It's always fun trying different starting technique's. The last few fires I've had were just similar sized splits as Pen spaced apart a little more with 1/3 chunk of Super Cedar underneath. I reached light off in 20 minutes but the first 5 minutes were a little smokey. Still have to try the top down with Super Cedar.


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## samhoff2 (Sep 19, 2011)

I would bet really good money that the can is not full of kerosene.

Sam


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## firefighterjake (Sep 19, 2011)

soupy1957 said:
			
		

> I dunno...........for "me" ...........I like the idea of burying the newspaper UNDER the kindling, and putting mid-size splits over the kindling (along with a Super Cedar in quarters in the 4 corners of the pile), on top of that in a criss-cross pattern.  Seems to start up fine, and keeps the newspaper pieces from flying around, and up the flue.
> 
> As for "shoulder season," ............the biggest issue I've found, is over-heating the house. Starting a fire on a cool morning is fine, but I let them go out by 9 AM or so, rather than keep feeding it.
> 
> -Soupy1957



The secret I quickly discovered to shoulder season fires is to build one fire . . . no reloads . . . allow the stove time to heat up and time to heat up the place . . . avoid the temptation to reload the stove even if you think it's still a little chilly . . . do this and you will not over heat the house . . . give in to the temptation and just add a few small pieces to keep the fire going a bit longer and you will often need to open the windows a little later.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 19, 2011)

Swedishchef said:
			
		

> wow. Nice pics Pen. You are a firm believer in top down fires eh? I tried it a couple of times and the fire went out before the splits could catch!
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Andrew



Try it a few more times . . . the first three or four times I tried it I thought, "Pffff . . . this is dumb . . . it doesn't work" . . . but on Try Number 4 or 5 the fire took off and voila . . . I was a convert to top down fires. After you experiment a bit you can modify things a bit . . . maybe use more kindling . . . maybe tuck the newspaper under the kindling . . . etc.


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## cptoneleg (Sep 19, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> meanwhile, back at the ranch.......
> 
> pen





I will try that next cold front, Thanks


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## nate379 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow that's a ton of wood for a shoulder season fire.  I have been burning for a couple weeks.  I usually make a fire with 3-4 pieces of spruce and maybe a piece of birch... equal to about 1/2 of the wood you have in that pic when the can of nassty beer.

I put the paper on the bottom, with a few small pieces, then larger pieces on sides and over top, then light.  Been doing it like since I started making fires ~20 years ago.


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## pen (Sep 20, 2011)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> Wow that's a ton of wood for a shoulder season fire.  I have been burning for a couple weeks.  I usually make a fire with 3-4 pieces of spruce and maybe a piece of birch... equal to about 1/2 of the wood you have in that pic when the can of nassty beer.
> 
> I put the paper on the bottom, with a few small pieces, then larger pieces on sides and over top, then light.  Been doing it like since I started making fires ~20 years ago.



My apologies.  I'll try to do better next time.

pen


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## My Oslo heats my home (Sep 20, 2011)

soupy1957 said:
			
		

> I dunno...........for "me" ...........I like the idea of burying the newspaper UNDER the kindling, and putting mid-size splits over the kindling (along with a Super Cedar in quarters in the 4 corners of the pile), on top of that in a criss-cross pattern.  Seems to start up fine, and keeps the newspaper pieces from flying around, and up the flue.
> 
> As for "shoulder season," ............the biggest issue I've found, is over-heating the house. Starting a fire on a cool morning is fine, but I let them go out by 9 AM or so, rather than keep feeding it.
> 
> -Soupy1957



+1 Thanks Soupy. The way you described your process is nearly the same as mine.


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## mhrischuk (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm surprised the EPA hasn't put a restriction on shoulder season fires since they don't allow the stove to go into high efficiency mode. Next they'll have the stoves automatically shut down after a pre-determined amount of time under temp.

But seriously, I can see this shoulder season fire debate as one that has lots of solutions with lots of variables. The key being to get the top of the stove hot quickly.


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## pen (Sep 20, 2011)

mhrischuk said:
			
		

> I'm surprised the EPA hasn't put a restriction on shoulder season fires since they don't allow the stove to go into high efficiency mode. Next they'll have the stoves automatically shut down after a pre-determined amount of time under temp.
> 
> But seriously, I can see this shoulder season fire debate as one that has lots of solutions with lots of variables. The key being to get the top of the stove hot quickly.



That's exactly why the top-down fire is so popular with city dwellers or those w/ close neighbors or smog regulations.  Much less smoke on startup than a fire built bottom up.

pen


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## raybonz (Sep 20, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

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I'm with you and Vanessa Penn top down works very well even better with the T-5 vs. my CDW.. I think it's the air entering from the front that makes the difference.. I find if I light the fire just below the top layer with 1/4 SC and close the door with max air it takes right off..

Ray


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## Heatmiser5 (Sep 21, 2011)

I am defiantly going to try the top down method. My wife
Already complains about the light smoke smell in the house
When I open the door (ever so slowly)  to add the bigger splits.
  By the way, I just added the side heat shields the other day.
Just have not fired her up yet. I am seriously considering
Adding the blower next. This damn wood burning is a bit
Addicting.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 21, 2011)

Heatmiser5 said:
			
		

> I am defiantly going to try the top down method. My wife
> Already complains about the light smoke smell in the house
> When I open the door (ever so slowly)  to add the bigger splits.
> By the way, I just added the side heat shields the other day.
> ...



You haven't even started to get going yet . . . just wait until you start buying the hydraulic splitter, splitting hand tools (just in case), new chainsaw and other assorted tools that are "necessary."


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## raybonz (Sep 21, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

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Don't forget the wood shelter and things to haul that firewood around lol... Oh and beer just cuz.. etc..

Ray


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 21, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

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I just found someone that delivers wood on the cheap.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 21, 2011)

Heatmiser5 said:
			
		

> I am defiantly going to try the top down method. My wife
> Already complains about the light smoke smell in the house
> When I open the door (ever so slowly)  to add the bigger splits.
> By the way, I just added the side heat shields the other day.
> ...



Tell her that is fine, you won't open the stove door again, hand her a ski jacket and gloves, and tell her to get comfortable for the next five to six months.


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## nate379 (Sep 22, 2011)

Not sure what you mean by that.  If I put that much wood in my stove even right now when it's in the 30s at night it would be 90* in the house.  I put 3 medium sized birch splits last night and I woke up this morning with it being 83* in my bedroom (farthest room in the house from the stove).  It's nice when it's -10* cause I can pack the stove and not worry about it.



			
				pen said:
			
		

> NATE379 said:
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## jjs777_fzr (Sep 24, 2011)

thx for the ideas on the top down fire start... didn't think of even trying that and I'm tired of the smoke at startup - I'll give it a go as the season ramps up


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## CountryGal (Sep 24, 2011)

Top down is the only way to go for me!  No wood splits falling when the kindling burns away--shifting logs, etc.  I don't use newspaper.  I use Super Cedars (1/4 or 1/2) ... which reminds me, I need to order a case.  

Broke down and bought an A/C this year.  Too much humidity now here in the Mojave with the monsoons every year and my swamp coolers just make it more miserable.  Bought the Mitsubishi ductless A/C and heat pump.  Probably use that during shoulder season (in the 90s today) and burn the Country when it's time to get serious.  

Hubby has totally given over the woodstove to me to operate although he has learned the top down method.  He didn't think it would work because he always built like you would a campfire.  I'll never go back to the old method.  

Happy burning!!


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## BrotherBart (Sep 24, 2011)

Anybody that doubts climate change should pay a little attention to monsoons in the Mojave Desert.

Good to see ya back CountryGal. Hope ya have a good burning season.


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 24, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Anybody that doubts climate change should pay a little attention to monsoons in the Mojave Desert.
> 
> Good to see ya back CountryGal. Hope ya have a good burning season.




Oh hey, look, another thread headed for the ash can...


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## raybonz (Sep 24, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

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LMAO Ain't that the truth?! Good one Brownie!

Ray

PS Welcome back CG!


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## chvymn99 (Sep 24, 2011)

Mmmmm.... Interesting...I'll have to try it out.  Even though it goes against all my thought process of how I've always started fires.  It looks, like it might work better than opening up the door 1 to 2 times to get a good fire going.  Thanks for the pics and write up.


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## wendell (Sep 24, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> You haven't even started to get going yet . . . just wait until you start buying the hydraulic splitter, splitting hand tools (just in case), *new chainsaw* and other assorted tools that are "necessary."



Chainsaw_? Why the singular? You're no fun!


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## firefighterjake (Sep 26, 2011)

wendell said:
			
		

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Oh, I'll keep my old one . . . just want a new one with more power!


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## PA Fire Bug (Nov 2, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> You haven't even started to get going yet . . . just wait until you start buying the hydraulic splitter, splitting hand tools (just in case), new chainsaw and other assorted tools that are "necessary."



After two years of not buying any fuel oil, I didn't have any trouble getting my wife to go along with the purchase of a new chain saw, chain sharpener, and a tri-axel load of logs.  The Fiskars x27 should be arriving for my birthday in early December.  We have even discussed log splitters.  What a difference a warm house makes.


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