# Hardwood vs Softwood Pellets



## MacP

First of all, I just want to thank everyone on this forum for their input. It's been extremely helpful. 

I placed my order for a Harman P61A on Columbus Day Weekend. It was finally installed on 12/6. I was hoping that it would save me some money compared to using oil to heat my 2300 sq ft home. I never knew it would turn to an obsession.

Anyways, I've been on the hunt for wood pellets. I bought 1 ton NEWP in October. After discovering this forum and reading various threads, I wanted to try other pellets. See sig for the pellets I've purchased so far. 

Here's my question: 
Do hardwood pellets cause more wear and tear on the stove? Should I be using softwood pellets only?

The reason I asked is because I purchased Oakies. The dealer said that hardwood pellets could cause things to break in the stove. Oakies have been the most expensive I bought so far. $293 per ton. 

Another question:
When's the best time to purchase pellets? If I purchase in the spring, will "crappy" pellets be the only pellet to choose from?

Any insight would be appreciated.


----------



## nksdad2007

I believe hardwood pellets and softwood are equally hard after the are made.  I think the dealer was looking for a reason to sell you the more expensive pellet, and therefore the more profit for him.  As far as best time to buy, i would say it all depends on the area you are in.  Around here, we usually find the best deal late summer to early fall for the big box stores.  but you are limited to what they are carrying for the season.  Green teams have burned the best for me, but i never seem to be in the right place to get a whole seasons worth.  You will find what burns bets for your stove, and then a balance between cost, cleaning, availability and convenience.  Enjoy the ride, and spend lots of time here.  I have learned a lot in the past few years from a lot of very helpful people.


----------



## whosthat

hardwood pellets put out more heat then softwood, you'd run your equipment less as you'd get up to temp faster so hardwood probly saves on wear and tear. 
As for the Hardwood being to hard and causing wear on the stove that sounds like a complete flat out lie, I wouldn't deal with the guy. The only other thing is don't buy pellets in the winter, they cost to damn much buy when you can get ur favoriot brand for the best price.

Im learning the hardway, costing 75 more a ton then just 1 month ago


----------



## subsailor

I have a P61A also and have burned more hardwood pellets than soft without any problems. The hardwood might crunch more in the auger, though. I also had good luck with Greene Team, but Lowe's prices went through the roof, so I'm on the lookout for a replacement. Choices in Maine are limited. Take your time and shop around. When you find a good deal, take advantage. You will find lot's of good posts on here covering what to buy and not to buy.


----------



## MacP

nksdad2007 said:
			
		

> I believe hardwood pellets and softwood are equally hard after the are made.  I think the dealer was looking for a reason to sell you the more expensive pellet, and therefore the more profit for him.  As far as best time to buy, i would say it all depends on the area you are in.  Around here, we usually find the best deal late summer to early fall for the big box stores.  but you are limited to what they are carrying for the season.  Green teams have burned the best for me, but i never seem to be in the right place to get a whole seasons worth.  You will find what burns bets for your stove, and then a balance between cost, cleaning, availability and convenience.  Enjoy the ride, and spend lots of time here.  I have learned a lot in the past few years from a lot of very helpful people.



Good point. 

I'll have to make a few phone calls to different dealers to see what's available. I wish they'd update their websites more often with available pellets. I'll be on the lookout for green teams so I can try them out. 

Thank you.


----------



## bugize

Yes,after they are compressed...they have the same density...as far as heat,softwood puts out more BTU's than hardwood. its not like regular wood burning where hardwood is better,the softwood has more things in its make-up that produce more heat.
Now...there are some real nice hardwood pellets that throw heat..Cubex being one,but too far for me to get some..and at 279 per ton,i can get Independence just down the road a mile or so for 239 per ton.


----------



## whosthat

FYI im also burning green teams from lowes and I can second that they are good pellets. I also burned 1 ton green supreme (also from lowes) and they don't put out quite as much heat, but they burn well and are 1/3 cheaper. Never tried the stove chief or whatever it is that they also carry.


didn't know that softwoods put out more btu's, thats just the op of wood burning, I mean softwood puts out good heat but it burns so quickly that it could never match hardwood in a woodstove. I'll have to keep that in mind next time I buy pellets. 

p.s do softwood pellets burn quicker then hardwoods or not because they have the same density?they must burn faster/as well as hotter or am I wrong here?


----------



## whit

As far as I can see, the difference isn't between hardwood and softwood in pellets. It's between well made pellets and not-so-well made. Part of that has to do with the quality of the wood input, which has a lot more variables than whether it's hardwood or softwood. So in some cases, where the pellets are a byproduct of fine furniture manufacture, it's the scraps and sawdust from well-selected wood. Fine furniture is hardwood. So those are sometimes great hardwood pellets. On the other hand, some of the softwood pellet makers are equally choosey about the quality of the wood. 

By the time it's run through the pellet mill, and sold by equal weight, the main difference in a wood stove - that hardwood is denser and just weighs more for the same volume, thus has more energy in it - is lost. A cord of one kind of wood weighs totally differently from a cord of another kind. But a 40 lb. bag of pellets weight 40 lbs. Is there bark in it? Is there filler? Does it leave tar in your burn pot, or massive clinkers? Those aren't questions about hard and soft, but about the quality of the wood and the pellet mill. The two best pellets I've burned are Vermont (soft) and Barefoot (hard). I've burned others that are hard, soft and mixed, and some were good enough. None were as good as those two. Now, I've never burned Turmans or Okies, which people here I'm sure rightly love. So I'm not saying those two are the absolute best. But they're damn good. And it's not whether they're hard or soft that makes them so.


----------



## jtakeman

MacP said:
			
		

> First of all, I just want to thank everyone on this forum for their input. It's been extremely helpful.
> 
> I placed my order for a Harman P61A on Columbus Day Weekend. It was finally installed on 12/6. I was hoping that it would save me some money compared to using oil to heat my 2300 sq ft home. I never knew it would turn to an obsession.
> 
> Anyways, I've been on the hunt for wood pellets. I bought 1 ton NEWP in October. After discovering this forum and reading various threads, I wanted to try other pellets. See sig for the pellets I've purchased so far.
> 
> Here's my question:
> Do hardwood pellets cause more wear and tear on the stove? Should I be using softwood pellets only?
> 
> The reason I asked is because I purchased Oakies. The dealer said that hardwood pellets could cause things to break in the stove. Oakies have been the most expensive I bought so far. $293 per ton.
> 
> Another question:
> When's the best time to purchase pellets? If I purchase in the spring, will "crappy" pellets be the only pellet to choose from?
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated.



I haven't seen a pellet yet that would break my stove. Seen a few that broke the bank over the years. And I have burned lots of different brands over the years. Many that are no longer made and some made from some serious crap! I think what you need to worry about is how much ash is to much. Some will fill your stove quickly and some can run for a long time. Your dealer should have said hardwoods contain more ash than a softwood on average. So you could make a mess(wreck) of your stove. And you will need to clean more often. But there are some dandy hardwoods out there. Turmans is a good one to look for!

Best time to get pellet from the pellet house's is usually in Late April early may. They have spring deals on the better brands. Box stores don't think pellets until the season rolls in. We are usually heating before many even get fuel. There price wars start shortly after!

Once you get rolling you'll se what I mean. The Okies ash content is lower than the NEWP's you have. Once you burn some of each, Tell me what you think! But the goal your striving for is the hottest pellet with the least amount of ash you can afford. Some quick tips is select a few brands that are in good supply in your price range try some and see how you and your stove like them. 

Hope it helps.


----------



## MacP

j-takeman said:
			
		

> MacP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I just want to thank everyone on this forum for their input. It's been extremely helpful.
> 
> I placed my order for a Harman P61A on Columbus Day Weekend. It was finally installed on 12/6. I was hoping that it would save me some money compared to using oil to heat my 2300 sq ft home. I never knew it would turn to an obsession.
> 
> Anyways, I've been on the hunt for wood pellets. I bought 1 ton NEWP in October. After discovering this forum and reading various threads, I wanted to try other pellets. See sig for the pellets I've purchased so far.
> 
> Here's my question:
> Do hardwood pellets cause more wear and tear on the stove? Should I be using softwood pellets only?
> 
> The reason I asked is because I purchased Oakies. The dealer said that hardwood pellets could cause things to break in the stove. Oakies have been the most expensive I bought so far. $293 per ton.
> 
> Another question:
> When's the best time to purchase pellets? If I purchase in the spring, will "crappy" pellets be the only pellet to choose from?
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen a pellet yet that would break my stove. Seen a few that broke the bank over the years. And I have burn lots of different brands over the years. Many that are no longer made and some made from some serious crap! I think what you need to worry about is how much ash is to much. Some will fill your stove quickly and some can run for a long time. Your dealer should have said hardwoods contain more ash than a softwood on average. So you could make a mess(werk) of your stove. And you will need to clean more often. But there are some dandy hardwoods out there. Turmans is a god one to look for!
> 
> Best time to get pellet from the pellet house's is usually in Late April early may. They have spring deals on the better brands. Box stores don't think pellets until the season rolls in. We are usually heating before many even get fuel. There price wars start shortly after!
> 
> Once you get rolling you'll se what I mean. The Okies ash content is lower than the NEWP's you have. Once you burn some of each, Tell me what you think! But the goal your striving for is the hottest pellet with the least amount of ash you can afford. Some quick tips is select a few brands that are in good supply in your price range try some and see how you and your stove like them.
> 
> Hope it helps.
Click to expand...


You're posts have been really helpful. Thanks for simplifying it for me. The temperature will drop this weekend so I'll try the Oakies. I'm burning the NEWPs now on stove temp 2 and feed rate 3. 

Since the Oakies are a hotter pellet, should I drop the feed rate? I understand that the feed rate is something you should set it and forget it. Should I wait for the remaining NEWPs to go through the hopper before putting in the Oakies?


----------



## subsailor

Harmans are based on temp setting. I run my feed rate a little above 3.5 and never touch it. The processors will run the stove at the temp you set.


----------



## subsailor

Are you running your stove in room temp or stove temp?


----------



## jtakeman

MacP said:
			
		

> You're posts have been really helpful. Thanks for simplifying it for me. The temperature will drop this weekend so I'll try the Oakies. I'm burning the NEWPs now on stove temp 2 and feed rate 3.
> 
> Since the Oakies are a hotter pellet, should I drop the feed rate? I understand that the feed rate is something you should set it and forget it. Should I wait for the remaining NEWPs to go through the hopper before putting in the Oakies?



I'd do one thing at a time. Add the Okies and wait to see. If the house temp rises? Then drop the feed rate. As it gets colder you'll need more heat to compensate for the heat loss. 

Keep us posted!


----------



## superchips

I think my stove puts out better heat when trimmed lean (burning 1 bag per day) on hardwood pellets. But softwood pellets take less cleaning time.
I don't mind spending a little longer cleaning time when I'm paying under $200/ton instead of $300/ton.
The best deal is quality pellets that haven't sucked up any moisture.

I highly recommend trying a few bags before buying a batch by the ton.
And never buy tons when they were shipped during heavy rain.

After unloading enough bags from the tons you will get real good at telling which pellets feel right for consistence. Sort of like squeezing a loaf of bread in the grocery store.

The absolute worst pellets I've burned were Future Fuel II. I think they were made from straw grass and turned everything black including my cap.

Good luck


----------



## MacP

subsailor said:
			
		

> Are you running your stove in room temp or stove temp?



I'm still experimenting with room temp vs stove temp. If I set the room temp to 75-80, the thermostat on the other side of the living room is usually 68-73. Depending on the weather outside. I have the temperature sensor under the exhaust pipe. I also have a cheap temperature gauge next to it and it reads 79 when I have it set to 80. 

I tried stove temp last night before going to bed on 2 and feed rate at 3. Changed it to room temp on 75 and feed rate at 3. Before I left for work, I left the stove on stove temp 1 and feed rate at 1 in order to finish the NEWPs in the hopper. I haven't decided which pellet to use next. Forecast for this weekend will be in the 30s for a high. 

I'm going to try to stock up with pellets before next winter season. The prices right now for most premium pellets is around $270 a ton.


----------



## sinnian

whosthat said:
			
		

> hardwood pellets put out more heat then softwood, you'd run your equipment less as you'd get up to temp faster so hardwood probly saves on wear and tear.



That's just flat our wrong!

MOST softwoods produce more heat than hardwood pellets.


----------



## SmokeEater

Has anyone out there had a chance to try some of the biomass pellets, like grass pellets in your stoves.  I thought I saw that Harman makes a stove called the PC 45 that is set up to burn other types of biomass.  I found a website on a Canadian study to develop and build a business using switchgrass and it looked like a company could produce grass pellets and retail them for less than $150/T USD.


----------



## nailed_nailer

MacP,

Here is a site that has a lot of retailers stock and prices listed.    Some listings are out of date.
In most cases a contact # or website is listed.  Call first before making any drives.
This will give you an idea of what is around.
Caution, not all local retailers are listed.  There are many more local retailers.

http://www.woodpelletprice.com/

BTW, I burn whatever during the shoulder seasons but love softwood for heat season.

And then there is this other site for pellet reviews.
http://woodpelletreviews.com/

Hearth.com is probably your best overall resource for info.
---Nailer---


----------



## PA_Clinker

Heat output and ash content might vary slightly between hard/soft wood pellet brands. But the overall quality of the wood being used is probably more important than the species of wood (hardwood or softwood).


----------



## AndrewChurchill

You've got that backwards.  Pound for pound softwood has more BTUs than softwood.  However, cord wood is sold by volume and not weight and since hardwood is more dense it has more BTUs per cord.  Pelletizing the wood compresses the wood and makes the volume for both hard and soft wood the same and because of that the softwood pellet will have more BTUs per pound.

I have used both soft and hard wood pellets and I prefer softwood because the ash was finer and with the hardwood pellets I often had clinkers in my burnpot.



			
				whosthat said:
			
		

> hardwood pellets put out more heat then softwood, you'd run your equipment less as you'd get up to temp faster so hardwood probly saves on wear and tear.
> As for the Hardwood being to hard and causing wear on the stove that sounds like a complete flat out lie, I wouldn't deal with the guy. The only other thing is don't buy pellets in the winter, they cost to damn much buy when you can get ur favoriot brand for the best price.
> 
> Im learning the hardway, costing 75 more a ton then just 1 month ago


----------



## PA_Clinker

I actually just found one online source that agrees with you. 

Q: What is better Hardwood Pellets or Softwood Pellets?

_A: Most people jump to the conclusion that "we have always burned hardwood in our woodstove so hardwood must be better" - Not true with pellets. 

The first and most important thing to remember is that you are buying pellets by weight NOT volume. A cord of dry hardwood vs. dry softwood weighs about 2-3 times as much. However, a pound of dry hardwood weighs the same as a pound of dry softwood.

So what counts is the heat output of each. This is where softwood wins. Below is information from a study done by the wood industry.
A softwood pellet will produce 10-20% more BTU's per pound than hardwood depending on the species and create a lighter ash.
_

*White Oak 8810 BTU/pound 
Yellow Pine 9610 BTU/pound *

Interesting.





			
				Andrew Churchill said:
			
		

> You've got that backwards.  Pound for pound softwood has more BTUs than softwood.  However, cord wood is sold by volume and not weight and since hardwood is more dense it has more BTUs per cord.  Pelletizing the wood compresses the wood and makes the volume for both hard and soft wood the same and because of that the softwood pellet will have more BTUs per pound.
> 
> I have used both soft and hard wood pellets and I prefer softwood because the ash was finer and with the hardwood pellets I often had clinkers in my burnpot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whosthat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hardwood pellets put out more heat then softwood, you'd run your equipment less as you'd get up to temp faster so hardwood probly saves on wear and tear.
> As for the Hardwood being to hard and causing wear on the stove that sounds like a complete flat out lie, I wouldn't deal with the guy. The only other thing is don't buy pellets in the winter, they cost to damn much buy when you can get ur favoriot brand for the best price.
> 
> Im learning the hardway, costing 75 more a ton then just 1 month ago
Click to expand...


----------



## slls

Hardwood could break my stove. I have always burned a mix pellet, this last buy of Energex I believe is all hardwood. 
After 3 days running the pot dump gets harder to move, may break some day.


----------



## SXIPro

If a hardwood pellet could break your stove, you need a new stove. That is just ridiculous.

When I bought my Harman the dealer pushed and pushed to onlu use hardwood and specifically NEWP. When I finally tried softwoods I wanted to go back to the dealer and kick his a$$. Softwoods gave much more heat. In hindsight I should have just realized the dealer was a salesman and thus just pushing the only brand he carried.

I'm freakin surrounded by NEWP this year, I can't find anyone close selling softwood and it pisses me off.


----------



## slls

SXIPro said:
			
		

> If a hardwood pellet could break your stove, you need a new stove. That is just ridiculous.
> 
> When I bought my Harman the dealer pushed and pushed to onlu use hardwood and specifically NEWP. When I finally tried softwoods I wanted to go back to the dealer and kick his a$$. Softwoods gave much more heat. In hindsight I should have just realized the dealer was a salesman and thus just pushing the only brand he carried.
> 
> I'm freakin surrounded by NEWP this year, I can't find anyone close selling softwood and it pisses me off.



It's obvious you have not idea what you are saying.


----------



## SXIPro

slls said:
			
		

> SXIPro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a hardwood pellet could break your stove, you need a new stove. That is just ridiculous.
> 
> When I bought my Harman the dealer pushed and pushed to onlu use hardwood and specifically NEWP. When I finally tried softwoods I wanted to go back to the dealer and kick his a$$. Softwoods gave much more heat. In hindsight I should have just realized the dealer was a salesman and thus just pushing the only brand he carried.
> 
> I'm freakin surrounded by NEWP this year, I can't find anyone close selling softwood and it pisses me off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's obvious you have not idea what you are saying.
Click to expand...


Prove me wrong that:

1) A hardwood pellet will break any decent pellet stove.

2) Hardwoods (NEWP specifically) throw more heat than a good softwood like a Vermont or an Okanagan.

Enlighten me.


----------



## DonD

I don't see how a hardwood pellet can possible break a stove. I've been burning both this year. I'm tending to think if a hardwood pellet can break a stove nobody would be burning them. Can you explain what you mean?


----------



## lefty

I have a environ  pellet insert fpi  how  hard is it to hookup a thermostat.  For it


----------



## DonD

pei said:
			
		

> I have a environ  pellet insert fpi  how  hard is it to hookup a thermostat.  For it


You might have better luck getting an answer in a thread titled "enviro pellet insert thermostat" rather than a thread titled "Hardwood vs Softwood Pellets".

Or starting your own thread.

Or using the search function.

Just sayin...


----------



## PA_Clinker

DonD said:
			
		

> I don't see how a hardwood pellet can possible break a stove. I've been burning both this year. I'm tending to think if a hardwood pellet can break a stove nobody would be burning them. Can you explain what you mean?



Gotta agree 100%...let's be serious. The salesman was doing what he does best, push his product. Which I'm guessing was softwood. And after reading through this thread, I'm gonna be looking for some softwood pellets to try out before I buy next season's stash. Hardwood, softwood whatever burns _best_ in my stove is what I want to buy. As long as they don't smell like cat pee. :sick:


----------



## Countryboymo

I have noticed one brand of hardwood pellet that causes a crusty black  buildup on the bottom of the pot and if not dumped every day and scrape the bottom of the  burnpot it will grow thick enough to interfere with  the clearance of the sliding  floor of the pot.  I have burned other hardwoods  that have no such issue and never noticed this  with any softwood.  It would not break my stove unless "I" let it build up enough and then forced the floor open somehow with a tool that isn't supposed to be part of cleaning a stove.  Not every pellet will require the same cleaning steps.  Every brand and type has different attributes in cleaning and burning.  I grew up burning cord after cord of hedge in a Yukon wood furnace and thought people in here needed to put the crack pipe down with all the hot burning softwood talk.  I finally bought a few bags last year and could not believe it.  I then bought two tons lol.  The ash is way less it seems in my stove with most soft brands and they really throw the heat.  The pellets are usually shorter which feed better in my stove also.  

A good hard and good soft are still not a huge difference.  My stove will tolerate a crummier soft pellet better than a crummy hardwood so that also leans me toward a softwood.


----------



## jeff5347

Im new here and got my stove on Friday of last week.  A heatilator ps50.  I burned 2 bags of NEWP first, then 4 bags of Insatant Heat from Tractor Supply, then 2 bags of LG granules and then 2 bags of Valfie Ambience from Klems in Spencer MA.  The only one that was soft was the LG's and i wasnt real keen on them.    I see some of the posts saying they like the Turmans or Barfoot and can also get Maine Woods.  Comparing those to the NEWP what do you guys like better.  I dont mind the cleaning of the stove as long as i can get the heat.    One thing im wondering all the sites i go to say NEWP has a BTU of 8100 but i think on there bag they state 8900 BTUs?  Whoes right?


----------



## jtakeman

SXIPro said:
			
		

> slls said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SXIPro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a hardwood pellet could break your stove, you need a new stove. That is just ridiculous.
> 
> When I bought my Harman the dealer pushed and pushed to onlu use hardwood and specifically NEWP. When I finally tried softwoods I wanted to go back to the dealer and kick his a$$. Softwoods gave much more heat. In hindsight I should have just realized the dealer was a salesman and thus just pushing the only brand he carried.
> 
> I'm freakin surrounded by NEWP this year, I can't find anyone close selling softwood and it pisses me off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's obvious you have not idea what you are saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong that:
> 
> 1) A hardwood pellet will break any decent pellet stove.
> 
> 2) Hardwoods (NEWP specifically) throw more heat than a good softwood like a Vermont or an Okanagan.
> 
> Enlighten me.
Click to expand...


Somehow I think people mis understood you. I'm pretty sure SXIPro like softies fella's! ;-)


----------



## DonD

Countryboymo said:
			
		

> I have noticed one brand of hardwood pellet that causes a crusty black  buildup on the bottom of the pot and if not dumped every day and scrape the bottom of the  burnpot it will grow thick enough to interfere with  the clearance of the sliding  floor of the pot.  I have burned other hardwoods  that have no such issue and never noticed this  with any softwood.  It would not break my stove unless "I" let it build up enough and then forced the floor open somehow with a tool that isn't supposed to be part of cleaning a stove.



LOL - that has happened in my Castile exactly once. With a softwood pellet.  :coolsmile: 

I think what it shows is there is no "best" pellet. Everyone has there own good and bad experiences with both and that leads them to their choices. My preference is hardwood due to the aforementioned build up, cooler burning (by my tests in my stove), crumbled pellets and dust with the softwood pellets I have been burning, compared to the hardwood ones. And no, the hardwood ones have not broken my stove yet.


----------



## fmsm

NEWP is not a hardwood. If you read the bag you see it is a blend. I received a free ton with my stove and purchased another 1/2 ton on my buddies advice that it was a "great" pellet in his Harman. I am ready to put them on Craigslist as they are not that hot and provide a sooty ash compared to Cubex and even cheapo Grean Team's. Don't get me wrong, my Harman will burn them, I just like the others better.

I guess everyone's stove and set up is different.


----------



## MacP

Hardwood: So I noticed that cubex throws some serious heat, but heavier ash on the burn pot. I have to scrape it off 2-4 times a day. They worked great this week during the frigid temperatures. Very little crunching noises from the auger.

Softwood: spruce points created good heat as well, but not as hot as cubex. They created fluffy ash. Very little crunching noise. 

BLEND: NEWPs is good shoulder season heat. A good amount of ash. The most crunching noises.  I won't be paying Aton of NEWPs again. I'm saving the remaining half ton for March and April.

Next year I'll purchase pellets with the most BTUs with low ash. It doesn't matter if it's hardwood or softwood. That dealer was working like a car dealer and was full of crap. He was trying to sell me oakies softwood pellets. I still haven't tried the Oakies yet. 

Another dealer, which I bought the cubex and spruce points, told me he probably wont be getting spruce points again. He's looking to get another Canadian softwood. I asked him which one it was, but he couldn't remember. He should be getting a few bags to try out.


----------



## AndrewChurchill

I've been burning Spruce Point pellets for the past two years in my PB105 and they've worked great!  By the end of this heating season I will have burned about 18 tons of them with no problems.




			
				MacP said:
			
		

> Hardwood: So I noticed that cubex throws some serious heat, but heavier ash on the burn pot. I have to scrape it off 2-4 times a day. They worked great this week during the frigid temperatures. Very little crunching noises from the auger.
> 
> Softwood: spruce points created good heat as well, but not as hot as cubex. They created fluffy ash. Very little crunching noise.
> 
> BLEND: NEWPs is good shoulder season heat. A good amount of ash. The most crunching noises.  I won't be paying Aton of NEWPs again. I'm saving the remaining half ton for March and April.
> 
> Next year I'll purchase pellets with the most BTUs with low ash. It doesn't matter if it's hardwood or softwood. That dealer was working like a car dealer and was full of crap. He was trying to sell me oakies softwood pellets. I still haven't tried the Oakies yet.
> 
> Another dealer, which I bought the cubex and spruce points, told me he probably wont be getting spruce points again. He's looking to get another Canadian softwood. I asked him which one it was, but he couldn't remember. He should be getting a few bags to try out.


----------



## MacP

Don't get me wrong,... spruce points are great! I wish I had purchased more this season. Good heat and burns clean. I just don't know  exactly if the dealer will be getting more this season. I'll grab 1.5 tons of spruce points and cubex next year if he gets more next season. It's my first season with my pellet stove so I'm not sure how many tons ill need next year.


----------



## IHATEPROPANE

They only real difference I have seen is the hardwood burn better on  low and the softwood burn better in high....I think it is because the softwood burn a tiny bit quicker.....may not be any difference at all if I could adjust my combustion air.


----------



## fmsm

Pennington makes a few brands I noticed at my local HD, Nature's Own which is a softwood and Nature's Heat that is a hardwood blend. Does anyone have experience with Nature's Heat?


----------



## DexterDay

fmsm said:
			
		

> Pennington makes a few brands I noticed at my local HD, Nature's Own which is a softwood and Nature's Heat that is a hardwood blend. Does anyone have experience with Nature's Heat?



Junk... In my Opinion. YMMV. Everyone has different views on whats good. I bought 2 more test bags this season. Very clean looking burn, sub-par heat, and pellets "smell funny". I still try them every year.


----------



## Bank

DON'T GO NEAT NATURE'S HEAT Garbage for sure..


----------



## Wachusett

DexterDay said:
			
		

> pellets "smell funny". I still try them every year.



Dex, That sounds like pellet addiction to me.  ;-P 

I do the same thing, last years trash could be this years treasure.


----------



## hotdawg

I don't know if one is necessarily better then the other.  I really think it's what your stove prefers.  I like to try many different brands of pellets, check out my sig and you'll see.  I've had success with both types but prefers the Spruce Pointes for soft and the Barefoots for hard.  Both brands are excellent pellets in general but my stove really prefers the Barefoots.  It produces slightly more BTUs, burns cleaner and lasts a little longer then the Spruce Pointes.  The SP leaves a slightly thicker ash making it harder to clean.  I'm planning on picking up another ton of Barefoots to get me through the winter of them.  And I would take what some salespeople say with a grain of salt.  I find they tend to push their products and whatever happens to be on hand is the best at the moment.  They are doing what they're being paid for and we as the consumers should do our homework first before jumping into tonage.  There's a very popular saying on this forum "Try before you buy" is very true.  I learned it the hard way!  So moral of the story....buy whatever makes your stove happy without breaking the bank!


----------



## MacP

hotdawg said:
			
		

> I don't know if one is necessarily better then the other.  I really think it's what your stove prefers.  I like to try many different brands of pellets, check out my sig and you'll see.  I've had success with both types but prefers the Spruce Pointes for soft and the Barefoots for hard.  Both brands are excellent pellets in general but my stove really prefers the Barefoots.  It produces slightly more BTUs, burns cleaner and lasts a little longer then the Spruce Pointes.  The SP leaves a slightly thicker ash making it harder to clean.  I'm planning on picking up another ton of Barefoots to get me through the winter of them.  And I would take what some salespeople say with a grain of salt.  I find they tend to push their products and whatever happens to be on hand is the best at the moment.  They are doing what they're being paid for and we as the consumers should do our homework first before jumping into tonage.  There's a very popular saying on this forum "Try before you buy" is very true.  I learned it the hard way!  So moral of the story....buy whatever makes your stove happy without breaking the bank!



All good points. 

Where did you find a slightly thicker ash with that SP? Walls? Pot? Seems like the SP left a a film on the inside walls.


----------



## hotdawg

MacP said:
			
		

> hotdawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if one is necessarily better then the other.  I really think it's what your stove prefers.  I like to try many different brands of pellets, check out my sig and you'll see.  I've had success with both types but prefers the Spruce Pointes for soft and the Barefoots for hard.  Both brands are excellent pellets in general but my stove really prefers the Barefoots.  It produces slightly more BTUs, burns cleaner and lasts a little longer then the Spruce Pointes.  The SP leaves a slightly thicker ash making it harder to clean.  I'm planning on picking up another ton of Barefoots to get me through the winter of them.  And I would take what some salespeople say with a grain of salt.  I find they tend to push their products and whatever happens to be on hand is the best at the moment.  They are doing what they're being paid for and we as the consumers should do our homework first before jumping into tonage.  There's a very popular saying on this forum "Try before you buy" is very true.  I learned it the hard way!  So moral of the story....buy whatever makes your stove happy without breaking the bank!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All good points.
> 
> Where did you find a slightly thicker ash with that SP? Walls? Pot? Seems like the SP left a a film on the inside walls.
Click to expand...


The SP left a thicker residue on the walls.  Takes a little more care to clean the walls but the ash on the side is very light and fluffy.  I haven't found a perfect pellet yet but for the heat I'll deal with the cleaning of the SP.  The closest to perfect for me is the Barefoots.


----------



## TLHinCanada

SmokeEater said:
			
		

> Has anyone out there had a chance to try some of the biomass pellets, like grass pellets in your stoves.  I thought I saw that Harman makes a stove called the PC 45 that is set up to burn other types of biomass.  I found a website on a Canadian study to develop and build a business using switchgrass and it looked like a company could produce grass pellets and retail them for less than $150/T USD.



I think I read that study and the output is destined for Europe.  One thing about Ontario it will pay for the research and the plant to make it as long as it won't be sold in Ontario (I'm not bitter with our government just fed up).


----------



## MacP

hotdawg said:
			
		

> MacP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hotdawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if one is necessarily better then the other.  I really think it's what your stove prefers.  I like to try many different brands of pellets, check out my sig and you'll see.  I've had success with both types but prefers the Spruce Pointes for soft and the Barefoots for hard.  Both brands are excellent pellets in general but my stove really prefers the Barefoots.  It produces slightly more BTUs, burns cleaner and lasts a little longer then the Spruce Pointes.  The SP leaves a slightly thicker ash making it harder to clean.  I'm planning on picking up another ton of Barefoots to get me through the winter of them.  And I would take what some salespeople say with a grain of salt.  I find they tend to push their products and whatever happens to be on hand is the best at the moment.  They are doing what they're being paid for and we as the consumers should do our homework first before jumping into tonage.  There's a very popular saying on this forum "Try before you buy" is very true.  I learned it the hard way!  So moral of the story....buy whatever makes your stove happy without breaking the bank!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All good points.
> 
> Where did you find a slightly thicker ash with that SP? Walls? Pot? Seems like the SP left a a film on the inside walls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The SP left a thicker residue on the walls.  Takes a little more care to clean the walls but the ash on the side is very light and fluffy.  I haven't found a perfect pellet yet but for the heat I'll deal with the cleaning of the SP.  The closest to perfect for me is the Barefoots.
Click to expand...


Do you scrape it off? I agree. No pellets is perfect.


----------



## xjarcher

Note to the OP
I have a P61a and I give it a workout every year (5 winters now).  I've burned lousy pellets and the best available. The difference is not HUGE. Your stove is a pretty efficient device. 
Things I've learned.
Set the feed rate to 3.5-4 and leave it alone. A low feed rate starves the stove and actually uses more pellets. Trust me others will back it up.
Hardwood pellets are fine if they are good quality ones. Save your $$ and leave the expensive softwoods alone not that much difference
Buy a mid grade hardwood pellet, they are more than adequate. (I use Somerset pellets $220/ton here)
You can put up to 40% corn in with your pellets if you want some extra heat. Corn burns HOT but more ash.
Running your stove on Room temp is good when it's cold, your temp sensor should be extended away from your stove a bit though not under it.
When it's cold here (teens and below) Room temp is hi, thermostat maxed and it keeps the basement(stove location) and the main floor (2000sq.ft) pretty warm.

Some real world info. Hope it helps.


----------



## hotdawg

xjarcher said:
			
		

> Note to the OP
> I have a P61a and I give it a workout every year (5 winters now).  I've burned lousy pellets and the best available. The difference is not HUGE. Your stove is a pretty efficient device.
> Things I've learned.
> Set the feed rate to 3.5-4 and leave it alone. A low feed rate starves the stove and actually uses more pellets. Trust me others will back it up.
> Hardwood pellets are fine if they are good quality ones. Save your $$ and leave the expensive softwoods alone not that much difference
> Buy a mid grade hardwood pellet, they are more than adequate. (I use Somerset pellets $220/ton here)
> You can put up to 40% corn in with your pellets if you want some extra heat. Corn burns HOT but more ash.
> Running your stove on Room temp is good when it's cold, your temp sensor should be extended away from your stove a bit though not under it.
> When it's cold here (teens and below) Room temp is hi, thermostat maxed and it keeps the basement(stove location) and the main floor (2000sq.ft) pretty warm.
> 
> Some real world info. Hope it helps.



I think everyone's experience with burning pellets are very different especially with the many types of stoves we each have.  Even within the same brand of pellets we have seen differences and even from pallet to pallet of the same brand there may be differences.  One thing I have experienced is the differences between burning "lousy" pellets versus the "best" available.  There is a marked difference between those pellets, at least in my stove.  I'm currently burning hardwood Bayou pellets and though my stove likes it fine and the ash isn't too bad, the heat produced is significantly less then my pellet of choice, which are the Barefoots.  It's a big enough difference where I will not use the Bayous unless the temp is above 30 degrees.  Anything south of that I pull out the good stuff.  There are amazing heat producers in both hardwoods and softwoods.  It's just what you prefer and how much you're willing to spend on it.  

I just happen to be a sucker for good pellets and will pay a premium for them.  But then again, what may be good for me could very well suck for you.  Some of the best advice this forum gave me was to try before you buy.  And boy do I love trying "good" pellets!


----------



## hotdawg

MacP said:
			
		

> hotdawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MacP said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hotdawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if one is necessarily better then the other.  I really think it's what your stove prefers.  I like to try many different brands of pellets, check out my sig and you'll see.  I've had success with both types but prefers the Spruce Pointes for soft and the Barefoots for hard.  Both brands are excellent pellets in general but my stove really prefers the Barefoots.  It produces slightly more BTUs, burns cleaner and lasts a little longer then the Spruce Pointes.  The SP leaves a slightly thicker ash making it harder to clean.  I'm planning on picking up another ton of Barefoots to get me through the winter of them.  And I would take what some salespeople say with a grain of salt.  I find they tend to push their products and whatever happens to be on hand is the best at the moment.  They are doing what they're being paid for and we as the consumers should do our homework first before jumping into tonage.  There's a very popular saying on this forum "Try before you buy" is very true.  I learned it the hard way!  So moral of the story....buy whatever makes your stove happy without breaking the bank!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All good points.
> 
> Where did you find a slightly thicker ash with that SP? Walls? Pot? Seems like the SP left a a film on the inside walls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The SP left a thicker residue on the walls.  Takes a little more care to clean the walls but the ash on the side is very light and fluffy.  I haven't found a perfect pellet yet but for the heat I'll deal with the cleaning of the SP.  The closest to perfect for me is the Barefoots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you scrape it off? I agree. No pellets is perfect.
Click to expand...


I do end up having to scrape some off the wall.  It's a thicker residue so when I wipe it smears around a little.  Even on the faux brick wall, it's harder to clean off then burning the hardwood pellets.  That's just my experience though so yours could be very different.  I haven't tried the Okies yet so it'll be interesting to see if they produce a similar ash and residue.  I'll let you know when I do.  Haven't gotten around to them yet.


----------



## jtakeman

SmokeEater said:


> Has anyone out there had a chance to try some of the biomass pellets, like grass pellets in your stoves. I thought I saw that Harman makes a stove called the PC 45 that is set up to burn other types of biomass. I found a website on a Canadian study to develop and build a business using switchgrass and it looked like a company could produce grass pellets and retail them for less than $150/T USD.


  Sorry I missed this SmokeEater,

There is a thread here on 3 of the members burning timithy grass pellets. See the link for more.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/grass-pellets-on-cl-gasification-video-too.45829/


----------



## dlavigne7324

jeff5347 said:


> Im new here and got my stove on Friday of last week.  A heatilator ps50.  I burned 2 bags of NEWP first, then 4 bags of Insatant Heat from Tractor Supply, then 2 bags of LG granules and then 2 bags of Valfie Ambience from Klems in Spencer MA.  The only one that was soft was the LG's and i wasnt real keen on them.    I see some of the posts saying they like the Turmans or Barfoot and can also get Maine Woods.  Comparing those to the NEWP what do you guys like better.  I dont mind the cleaning of the stove as long as i can get the heat.    One thing im wondering all the sites i go to say NEWP has a BTU of 8100 but i think on there bag they state 8900 BTUs?  Whoes right?


I have a harman p35i and I bought 5 tons of amines choice 100 percent hardwood .. High ash but great heat ..I bought a couple bgs of vermont  wood pellets 100 percent soft wood very little ash but about the same heat .. The difference in cost per ton around me is $200 verus $295 (vermont) I don't mind the ash because it doesn't take long for me to clean


----------



## SmokeEater

whit said:


> As far as I can see, the difference isn't between hardwood and softwood in pellets. It's between well made pellets and not-so-well made. Part of that has to do with the quality of the wood input, which has a lot more variables than whether it's hardwood or softwood. So in some cases, where the pellets are a byproduct of fine furniture manufacture, it's the scraps and sawdust from well-selected wood. ...........................love. So I'm not saying those two are the absolute best. But they're damn good. And it's not whether they're hard or soft that makes them so.


GEEZ, all I've learned up here in the sticks is that both hardwood and softwood pellets have been compressed to the same density.  Density is the weight (mass actually) per unit of volume.  Basically, g/cubic cm or in the English units, lbs/cu. ft.  So when you buy a bag of softwood pellets they are compressed to the same (about) density as the hardwood pellet.  Wood fiber is wood is wood and so its hardness is the same.  Boiled down to simplicity, hardwood pellets and softwood pellets have the same density and so the same volume by weight.  40 pounds of soft equal the volume of 40 pounds of hard.  Due to the HHV of the softwood because of the additional resins that have a higher heat content, the softwood pellets will usually have a little higher Btu value per pound than the hardwood.  You would have to calculate the price difference vs the energy difference to determine which would be more economical in $/(Btu/lb).   I have a Harman boiler and it seems to burn any pellet equally well and I guess I don't pay a lot of attention to the ash content (it's low whatever pellet I use) or the burn temperature, because that does not determine the heat output per pound.  I know that different stoves will burn different pellets differently and one needs to know which is most efficient in their own.


----------



## SmokeEater

PA_Clinker said:


> I actually just found one online source that agrees with you.
> 
> Q: What is better Hardwood Pellets or Softwood Pellets?
> 
> _A: Most people jump to the conclusion that "we have always burned hardwood in our woodstove so hardwood must be better" - Not true with pellets.
> 
> The first and most important t............................rom a study done by the wood industry.
> A softwood pellet will produce 10-20% more BTU's per pound than hardwood depending on the species and create a lighter ash.
> _
> 
> *White Oak 8810 BTU/pound
> Yellow Pine 9610 BTU/pound *
> 
> Interesting.


Then, we should watch our prices if we are shopping for Btus and not pay more than the 10 percent or so more for the softwood pellets.  Ie. If harwood is $219 per ton and 10 percent of that is $22.  Therefore the buyer should steer clear of softwood pellets that cost more than $241 per ton.


----------

