# Repeal EPA regs on gas can nozzles



## TreePointer (May 8, 2018)

There have been many complaints in this forum and others about CARB compliant gas can nozzles.  I just wanted to give a heads up on a White House petition to repeal the regs that mandate these pain-in -the-arse (IMO) nozzles.  It may go nowhere, but just getting this issue on the radar may help.

I'm not intending for this to be a political discussion.  It is a gear issue that we've been discussing for a long time.  For those who are so inclined, check it out:

*Repeal of the EPA regulations mandating unwanted portable gas container nozzles*

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ating-unwanted-portable-gas-container-nozzles

EDIT:  It's not my petition, BTW.


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## bholler (May 8, 2018)

I have compliant cans i love and wouldnt trade for anything.  They have a push button and a large nozzle.  They work fast and easy.


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## ben94122 (May 8, 2018)

bholler said:


> I have compliant cans i love and wouldnt trade for anything.  They have a push button and a large nozzle.  They work fast and easy.


What kind?


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## festerw (May 8, 2018)

ben94122 said:


> What kind?



I'm guessing a No-Spill can.  I've got a couple that I like.

http://www.nospill.com/Products.html

I've also got a couple Eagle cans that I use that are good also.

http://eagle-mfg.com/catalog/Safety-Cans.aspx


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## Tar12 (May 8, 2018)

bholler said:


> I have compliant cans i love and wouldnt trade for anything.  They have a push button and a large nozzle.  They work fast and easy.


Thats what i use and love them!


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## Ashful (May 8, 2018)

Another vote for “No Spill Jill”.  I have three old-school cans, and three No Spill cans, and I like them equally.

I threw away all of my cheaper complaint cans (eg. Blitz brand).


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## Tar12 (May 8, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Another vote for “No Spill Jill”.  I have three old-school cans, and three No Spill cans, and I like them equally.
> 
> I threw away all of my cheaper complaint cans (eg. Blitz brand).



I use the 2.5 gallon for chainsaw mix unless I am running the 660 for few days....lol and a couple 5 gallon models for the splitter,ATV..ect.


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## TreePointer (May 8, 2018)

I have lots of No-Spill cans and I love them for smaller volumes.  The 5 gallon model is too slow for me when I use it on ZTRs and other mowers.


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## firefighterjake (May 9, 2018)

I know with the cheaper EPA gas cans I usually end up spilling almost as much gas on the ground than I do in the fuel tank.


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## peakbagger (May 9, 2018)

I use VP fuel cans.  https://www.xtremediesel.com/vp-racing-fuels-motorsport-container-square?variant_id=107904& Note they are not officially fuel cans as they aren't emissions compliant but are a lot thicker than any other plastic fuel can and has a variety of fuel spout options. Since they are used for racing they can empty a lot of fuel quickly.


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## Bad LP (May 9, 2018)

Eagle or Just Rite Safety Cans. Cheap? No but worth it to me. I use the red for straight gas, green for 2 stroke mix and yellow for diesel.


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## peakbagger (May 9, 2018)

One thing to be aware with Eagle cans is they are designed to vent if pressurized. If I fill them in cold weather and then let them warm up they will release pressure and some fumes. Much as I like them I will not let them in a closed vehicle like an SUV due to this venting. I have also had them leak when they got inadvertently tossed around.

I have also thrown away several plastic fuel cans that have a vent cap because the vent cap splits. I thought it was I was over tightening it  but its probably a combination of cheap manufacture and the tank pressurizing from cold to warm numerous times.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (May 9, 2018)

UV


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## sportbikerider78 (May 9, 2018)

Not just for powersports.  They come in different sizes and work well.

I like simple.


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## Tar12 (May 9, 2018)

The problem with the VP and their kind is that the long neck on them becomes brittle and breaks with time...not very flexible at all in winter time..


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## Bad LP (May 10, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> The problem with the VP and their kind is that the long neck on them becomes brittle and breaks with time...not very flexible at all in winter time..


Looks like a hunk of off the shelf braided vinyl.


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## Ashful (May 10, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> I use VP fuel cans.  https://www.xtremediesel.com/vp-racing-fuels-motorsport-container-square?variant_id=107904& Note they are not officially fuel cans as they aren't emissions compliant but are a lot thicker than any other plastic fuel can and has a variety of fuel spout options. Since they are used for racing they can empty a lot of fuel quickly.


I’m interested.  But it seems they fail to list the one spec that would have someone buying one of these:  gallons per minute.  How many seconds does it take to empty a 5 gallon can?   If not much faster than a No Spill, then what’s the point?

No Spill does 3 gal per minute, which is slower than I like, but faster than any other can I’ve tried.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 10, 2018)

Bad LP said:


> Looks like a hunk of off the shelf braided vinyl.


Yeah, I was just going to say that.  Simple, cheap replacement if necessary.  I haven't had them crack.


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## peakbagger (May 10, 2018)

I have never had any issues in winter and it gets down to -30F. Flow rate is function of nozzle type. I have the hose but expect the Nascar nozzles drain faster. I mostly like the durability, its thick HDPE a lot thicker than any other tank I have found. The quality of the fittings is better and I can buy replacements if I need them.


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## Tar12 (May 10, 2018)

Bad LP said:


> Looks like a hunk of off the shelf braided vinyl.


So far I have replaced 0 no spills spouts.....lost track on the VP jugs....I think the right sized black automotive type hose would last much longer...none of the clear hose...reinforced or otherwise has lasted as long as I would like..they harden with time and crack..I have several of the VP and clones around here....just got tired of replacing the spout every time I turn around...and they are not suited for small engine refills.


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## fishki (May 11, 2018)

I got a half dozen 20 litre NATO cans stashed in my shed, they have the "Not in the US"  flexible metal nozzles, great for filling up mowers or log splitter or occasionally the truck when I run out somewhere. Downside is there are so many chinese knockoffs for sale everywhere, have to be careful what you buy. I use the 2 gallon walmart "takes forever to pour gas" cans for weedeaters and chainsaws


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## peakbagger (May 11, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> So far I have replaced 0 no spills spouts.....lost track on the VP jugs....I think the right sized black automotive type hose would last much longer...none of the clear hose...reinforced or otherwise has lasted as long as I would like..they harden with time and crack..I have several of the VP and clones around here....just got tired of replacing the spout every time I turn around...and they are not suited for small engine refills.



5 years and counting on my VP hose. No evidence of deterioration. Guess I am lucky. I use mine for Diesel and Non ethanol gas, I wonder if maybe the ethanol is eating the hose? Not the first time ethanol gas is indicted for eating fuel hoses.

I also have the Nato Jerry cans for my Unimog as it has racks for two of them. I do find that the gaskets do eventually dry out. Replacements are available.


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## Tar12 (May 13, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> 5 years and counting on my VP hose. No evidence of deterioration. Guess I am lucky. I use mine for Diesel and Non ethanol gas, I wonder if maybe the ethanol is eating the hose? Not the first time ethanol gas is indicted for eating fuel hoses.
> 
> I also have the Nato Jerry cans for my Unimog as it has racks for two of them. I do find that the gaskets do eventually dry out. Replacements are available.


You may be on to something with the ethanol...I have had to replace fuel lines on chainsaws because of it.


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## EatenByLimestone (May 13, 2018)

I used to check estate sales for the older style pre EPA gas cans.  I'd pick them up for a dollar or 2 each.   I have enough to last me the rest of my life.    I have some old Jerry cans that do boat service every summer.


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## fishki (May 13, 2018)

We use to have tons of these when I was growing up. Wish I still had some.


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## Knuckles75 (May 18, 2018)

I've spilled more fuel using the EPA cans (both the sliding sleeve valve and the "push button" type) than I ever did with the old style. Most was due to the amount of pressure I had to apply to get the internal valve to open, then, after a year or two, they would start to leak where the two nozzle pieces meet (where it slides, not the cap). I have one pre-EPA that I will never get rid of and have often transferred fuel from an EPA can to the pre-EPA can just to be able to properly put fuel in my tractor without dumping the dang thing.


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## CincyBurner (May 18, 2018)

Another plug for the No-Spill containers.  A great product.  No spills, no dribbles.
Push button makes it easy and intuitive to dispense fuel quickly, or small amounts.  Fuel stops filling automatically when tank full, which is good for fueling in dark/ low light conditions.


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## bholler (May 19, 2018)

Knuckles75 said:


> I've spilled more fuel using the EPA cans (both the sliding sleeve valve and the "push button" type) than I ever did with the old style. Most was due to the amount of pressure I had to apply to get the internal valve to open, then, after a year or two, they would start to leak where the two nozzle pieces meet (where it slides, not the cap). I have one pre-EPA that I will never get rid of and have often transferred fuel from an EPA can to the pre-EPA can just to be able to properly put fuel in my tractor without dumping the dang thing.


I am sorry but i dont see how you couls spill with the push button ones.  The only time i do is if i overflow.  And i have several atleast 5 years old with no leaks.


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## Knuckles75 (May 19, 2018)

bholler said:


> I am sorry but i dont see how you couls spill with the push button ones.  The only time i do is if i overflow.  And i have several atleast 5 years old with no leaks.



The two that I've used leaked severely at the base of the nozzle no matter how much I tightened it. I've just never had good luck with them, any of them.


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## bholler (May 19, 2018)

Knuckles75 said:


> The two that I've used leaked severely at the base of the nozzle no matter how much I tightened it. I've just never had good luck with them, any of them.


I have never had a leak on any of mine other than the one i ran over.  Just because you bought crappy ones doesnt mean they are all bad


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## Ashful (May 19, 2018)

Knuckles75 said:


> The two that I've used leaked severely at the base of the nozzle no matter how much I tightened it. I've just never had good luck with them, any of them.



Then they probably weren’t “No Spill” brand.  The No Spills have an o-ring in the cap base that works very well, even on mine that get filled and emptied every week, after several years.  These cans are expensive for plastic cans, but you get what you pay for. 





Only issue I could see is if the o-ring wasn’t properly seated, and got damaged when tightening down the lid.  I bought one that was installed that way, but I caught it before the o-ring got damaged, and it has never come loose again.  Must have been assembler error, or a customer before me monkeying with it at the store. 

My worst leaker is my vintage Eagle brand plastic can.  I have to tighten the nozzle to within a hair of breaking it to get it to not drip at the nozzle screw when pouring.  It also won’t stay upright in the back of my pickup, and the little spout plug is damn near impossible to remove when it’s cold.  It is my can of last resort.


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## bholler (May 19, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Then they probably weren’t “No Spill” brand.  The No Spills have an o-ring in the cap base that works very well, even on mine that get filled and emptied every week, after several years.  These cans are expensive for plastic cans, but you get what you pay for.
> 
> View attachment 226744
> 
> ...


Yes those are the cans i use and never have any problems


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## salecker (May 19, 2018)

I have tried a few EPA jugs that have found their way into my hands,i would never buy one.
I have lots of the old style and will always have lots.People will throw them away once they loose the caps,i see them at the dump all the time.Plus we can still buy the old style here.
I have never has an issue spilling gas with the old style.I do have an issue with the new ones so i avoid them.I had a couple of Americans ask if i would take gas-diesel mix for my waste oil furnace,so they brought 5 jugs full of the mix they got out of their truck.It took over 10 minutes a jug to empty them into a drum what a waste of time,the old ones would be empty in a couple of minutes.That was enough for me.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 19, 2018)

I looked up the no spill spouts on amazon.  The reviews aren't great.  3 star.  Maybe they cheapened the product.


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## RandyBoBandy (May 19, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I’m interested.  But it seems they fail to list the one spec that would have someone buying one of these:  gallons per minute.  How many seconds does it take to empty a 5 gallon can?   If not much faster than a No Spill, then what’s the point?
> 
> No Spill does 3 gal per minute, which is slower than I like, but faster than any other can I’ve tried.


The VP cans are great for filling machinery like excavators and skidsteers. They often have the fuel cap in areas were the short spout of the no-spills just don’t work. Plus holding down a button for 5 gallons of fuel sucks.


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## festerw (May 19, 2018)

sportbikerider78 said:


> I looked up the no spill spouts on amazon.  The reviews aren't great.  3 star.  Maybe they cheapened the product.



Most of the one star reviews on the spout are people who ordered them and then realized they don't fit Blitz or Scepter gas cans.


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## Ashful (May 19, 2018)

festerw said:


> Most of the one star reviews on the spout are people who ordered them and then realized they don't fit Blitz or Scepter gas cans.


Exactly.  But since you asked, here it is @sportbikerider78, at 4.3 stars:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=no-spill+5+gallon&tag=hearthamazon-20


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## begreen (May 21, 2018)

Good to hear that the NoSpill are working. I had two Blitz 5 gallon containers that turned out to be pieces of crap. They developed a crack along the top seam after 5 yrs. After that I swore I wouldn't get another plastic can. Now I am using Eagles, both an older version of 30 yrs ago and the new safety model with the metal spout. I like the older version better, but the spout has hardened up over the years and now is not very usable. A replacement was very hard to locate, but I see that Rotopax now makes them, so the old can looks like it will be resurrected.


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## Ashful (May 21, 2018)

begreen said:


> Good to hear that the NoSpill are working. I had two Blitz 5 gallon containers that turned out to be pieces of crap. They developed a crack along the top seam after 5 yrs. After that I swore I wouldn't get another plastic can. Now I am using Eagles, both an older version of 30 yrs ago and the new safety model with the metal spout. I like the older version better, but the spout has hardened up over the years and now is not very usable. A replacement was very hard to locate, but I see that Rotopax now makes them, so the old can looks like it will be resurrected.



I found replacements for my Eagle plastic can spouts on eBay.  They even came with the little plastic plug for the end, which folks always seem to lose.  But the plastic they’re made from does get stiff in cold weather, making removing that end plug damn near impossible in the cold, and I find they do tend to leak a bit at the spout to jug connection.

I also bought a few of those Blitz containers early on, and these guys (IMO) are the reason EPA spouts get a bad name.  Even when new, they were just about impossible to use, without spilling fuel everywhere.  They’re also thin and tend to bulge badly when they warm up, after a cold fill.

My only gripe with the no-spill brand is that, even if they’re the fastest EPA nozzle, it’s still only 3 GPM.  So, if doing a 5 gal fill, it takes 1 min 40 seconds.  Not the end of the world, but one’s hand does tend to cramp a bit after the first minute.

Of course, that’s still faster than my old Eagle can with the nozzle installed, and holding a 5 gallon can of fuel in the air ain’t no picnic, either.  At least the no-spill can be rested on the hood of the tractor, whereas the spout on the Eagle forces me to hold it high in the air.


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## RandyBoBandy (May 21, 2018)

I do like the 1 gal and 2 gal no spills for hand held equipment. The button works great for these tools.


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## rowerwet (May 22, 2018)

https://m.harborfreight.com/battery-operated-liquid-transfer-pump-63847.html
I just use one of these with my EPA cans.
My wife and kids love it because there is no lifting involved to fill the lawnmowers


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## Ashful (May 22, 2018)

rowerwet said:


> https://m.harborfreight.com/battery-operated-liquid-transfer-pump-63847.html
> I just use one of these with my EPA cans.
> My wife and kids love it because there is no lifting involved to fill the lawnmowers



Looks very handy for filling small tanks, but at “up to 6 qt. per minute,” it’d take several minutes to top off my mower after each mowing.  I think the main gripe with the push button cans is also the time it takes to do a refill.


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## Dairyman (May 22, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Looks very handy for filling small tanks, but at “up to 6 qt. per minute,” it’d take several minutes to top off my mower after each mowing.  I think the main gripe with the push button cans is also the time it takes to do a refill.



Just get a transfer tank for your pickup with a 15gpm pump. Should speed things up quite nicely.


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## Ashful (May 22, 2018)

Dairyman said:


> Just get a transfer tank for your pickup with a 15gpm pump. Should speed things up quite nicely.



True!  But I’m not one of the complainers that needs one.  I have no issues with my old pre-EPA cans, nor do I have any problem with the No-Spill brand of EPA cans.  I’ll agree the Blitz EPA cans are garbage, but I repurposed mine for waste oil long ago, so I’m not using them to fill OPE anymore.


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## Stelcom66 (May 22, 2018)

firefighterjake said:


> I know with the cheaper EPA gas cans I usually end up spilling almost as much gas on the ground than I do in the fuel tank.



That's what was happening to me - especially with the lawn tractor because of the position. I modified the nozzle, so I guess it's no longer compliant - but haven't spilled any gas since.


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## bholler (May 22, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> That's what was happening to me - especially with the lawn tractor because of the position. I modified the nozzle, so I guess it's no longer compliant - but haven't spilled any gas since.


I have a 6" peice of tube on the nozzle of the no spil i use for our leaf vac.  It works well doesnt spill anything and is still compliant.


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## RandyBoBandy (May 22, 2018)

bholler said:


> I have a 6" peice of tube on the nozzle of the no spil i use for our leaf vac.  It works well doesnt spill anything and is still compliant.


When you say leaf vac are you referring to a billy goat leaf/ debris vac with the 10” diameter hose? Or a homeowner style leaf vac?


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## rowerwet (May 22, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Looks very handy for filling small tanks, but at “up to 6 qt. per minute,” it’d take several minutes to top off my mower after each mowing.  I think the main gripe with the push button cans is also the time it takes to do a refill.


The difference is that you can set the can on the tractor,  and let the pump do the work after that


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## bholler (May 22, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> When you say leaf vac are you referring to a billy goat leaf/ debris vac with the 10” diameter hose? Or a homeowner style leaf vac?


An old craftsman tow behind with an 8" hose.  Why do you ask?


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## RandyBoBandy (May 22, 2018)

bholler said:


> An old craftsman tow behind with an 8" hose.  Why do you ask?


I have been looking at the billy goat commercial vacs for my landscaping company and was curious about real world performance on the different models available


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## Ashful (May 22, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I have been looking at the billy goat commercial vacs for my landscaping company and was curious about real world performance on the different models available


Why not Little Wonder?

https://www.mowersatjacks.com/produ...miquln6pga2wivs1cnch0w5afoeaqybiabegjtqfd_bwe

I've always owned a Little Wonder walk behind blower... surprised how much market share they lost after the backpack blowers became popular.


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## bholler (May 23, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I have been looking at the billy goat commercial vacs for my landscaping company and was curious about real world performance on the different models available


Nope nothing that fancy.  I found an old one cheap and it works well for us


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## RandyBoBandy (May 23, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Why not Little Wonder?
> 
> https://www.mowersatjacks.com/produ...miquln6pga2wivs1cnch0w5afoeaqybiabegjtqfd_bwe
> 
> I've always owned a Little Wonder walk behind blower... surprised how much market share they lost after the backpack blowers became popular.


Looks awesome but at the note of 28,000 bones I’m gonna have to pass for right now. I’ve never really been a fan of Briggs and straten motors either.


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## Ashful (May 23, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Looks awesome but at the note of 28,000 bones I’m gonna have to pass for right now. I’ve never really been a fan of Briggs and straten motors either.



You said commercial, so I went big.  My latest Little Wonder walk-behind has a Subaru EX 27 motor, and cost $1100.  They make all sizes.

I didn’t know they offered Briggs engines at all.  Last time I shopped them they were only available with Honda or Subaru.   The Subaru powered blower models are less expensive and have better performance than the same model level in Honda.


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## RandyBoBandy (May 23, 2018)

Ashful said:


> You said commercial, so I went big.  My latest Little Wonder walk-behind has a Subaru EX 27 motor, and cost $1100.  They make all sizes.
> 
> I didn’t know they offered Briggs engines at all.  Last time I shopped them they were only available with Honda or Subaru.   The Subaru powered blower models are less expensive and have better performance than the same model level in Honda.


I’m a small landscaping company with 7 employees and 99% of our work is residential. I already have a 450 dump truck that I could frame up a chip box on. So 3500.00 for a billy goat sounds more realistic than the wonder unit. Interesting you like the Subaru of the Honda motors. My parents had a power washer with a Subaru motor and it was a piece of junk.


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## bholler (May 23, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m a small landscaping company with 7 employees and 99% of our work is residential. I already have a 450 dump truck that I could frame up a chip box on. So 3500.00 for a billy goat sounds more realistic than the wonder unit. Interesting you like the Subaru of the Honda motors. My parents had a power washer with a Subaru motor and it was a piece of junk.


Given the choice i would go honda every time.  But i do have a lawn tractor with a brigs vanguard engine in it and seems pretty good so far


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## RandyBoBandy (May 23, 2018)

bholler said:


> Given the choice i would go honda every time.  But i do have a lawn tractor with a brigs vanguard engine in it and seems pretty good so far


I agree with you 100%. The Honda gx models are indestructible. Like you my Ferris mower has a Briggs Vanguard twin on it. Other than a warrentied starter it’s been a good motor.


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## Ashful (May 23, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Interesting you like the Subaru of the Honda motors. My parents had a power washer with a Subaru motor and it was a piece of junk.


You misread me.  I don't prefer Subaru over Honda, in fact I really don't have a strong preference, either way.  I've owned a few of each, and have had zero issues with either.  I was just pointing out that, in the particular case of the Little Wonder walk-behinds, the Subaru-powered versions were less costly for more performance on a model-for-model basis.


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## Stelcom66 (May 26, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> My parents had a power washer with a Subaru motor and it was a piece of junk.


 
I wonder if the head gaskets went bad? !


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## RandyBoBandy (May 26, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> I wonder if the head gaskets went bad? !


Not sure. It was a pos from the beginning. I would be willing it check out Subaru motors again though. I can’t shun the company over one bad experience. It’s just hard to stray from the trusty Honda engines.


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## Stelcom66 (May 26, 2018)

fishki said:


> We use to have tons of these when I was growing up. Wish I still had some.
> 
> View attachment 226636



Going through the garage a while ago I discovered I had at least 4 older (plastic) 1 gallon containers. Gave one to my son who just bought a house. I do have a small one clearly labeled '2 cycle' for the chainsaw and other 2 stroke engines.


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## Stelcom66 (May 26, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Not sure. It was a pos from the beginning. I would be willing it check out Subaru motors again though. I can’t shun the company over one bad experience. It’s just hard to stray from the trusty Honda engines.


 
Just kidding, sort of... the flat 4s have a reputation for head gasket failures. Yours was probably a different configuration. I've had many Subaru vehicles, if I kept the last few to 150k+ miles I would have likely needed to have the head gaskets replaced, but mine were very reliable. I only have an older truck now, at some point may get an older economical car, preferably with a manual transmission. Honda is definitely being considered for the reason you mentioned. But - Subarus still appeal to me.


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## Ashful (May 26, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> Just kidding, sort of... the flat 4s have a reputation for head gasket failures. Yours was probably a different configuration. I've had many Subaru vehicles, if I kept the last few to 150k+ miles I would have likely needed to have the head gaskets replaced, but mine were very reliable. I only have an older truck now, at some point may get an older economical car, preferably with a manual transmission. Honda is definitely being considered for the reason you mentioned. But - Subarus still appeal to me.


Different animal.  We're talking about Robin motors, here.  Not the inline 4's they put in cars.


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## Stelcom66 (May 26, 2018)

Thought so. The Subaru engines in their vehicles are not inline, they're horizontally opposed.


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## Ashful (May 27, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> Thought so. The Subaru engines in their vehicles are not inline, they're horizontally opposed.



I’ll believe you.  Never owned a Subaru car.  Of course, if the Europeans keep dropping manual trans from their USA exports, I may be shopping Subaru soon.  

Just changed oil on my wife’s Volvo (turbo 5-cyl) last night.  Each time I do it (3x/year), I am reminded how much I hate Swedish engineers.


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## Stelcom66 (May 27, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I’ll believe you.  Never owned a Subaru car.  Of course, if the Europeans keep dropping manual trans from their USA exports, I may be shopping Subaru soon.
> 
> Just changed oil on my wife’s Volvo (turbo 5-cyl) last night.  Each time I do it (3x/year), I am reminded how much I hate Swedish engineers.



I also prefer manual transmissions. Unfortunately they're getting rare even in Subarus. I think the 2019 Foresters will only be available with the CVT. For a few years now the Outbacks and Legacys are only CVTs in the U.S.

Interesting re: the oil change! Years ago I had a '79 Saab, don't recall if I ever changed the oil myself. That was a 4 speed manual, no tach - but at highway speeds the engine was likely over 3000 rpm.


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## Ashful (May 27, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> Interesting re: the oil change! Years ago I had a '79 Saab, don't recall if I ever changed the oil myself. That was a 4 speed manual, no tach - but at highway speeds the engine was likely over 3000 rpm.


My mother owned two Saab 900’s and one Saab 9000 (or whatever they changed those models to in later years).  Those cars had absolutely no redeeming qualities:

1.  Not fast
2.  Handled more like a truck than a sporty coupe/sedan
3.  Not comfortable
4.  Not very good in the snow
5.  Not sexy
6.  Turbo lag & surge that was downright frightening

Re:  Volvo, they decided to be clever, and not use the disposable canister type oil filter that every other car manufacturer has used for 40 years.  Instead, you buy a filter element, that goes into their reusable canister.  It’s a friggin’ mess, and you have to take apart the air intake assembly just to access it.  There is also an aluminum crush washer on the oil plug that one is supposed to replace at every oil change and torque to precisely 28 lb-ft, but they don’t supply one with the filter, and no auto parts stores stock them (special order or dealer item only).  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  American car makers have figured this out on cars that cost less than half as much... but I have to admit that Volvo is about the most fun one can have in a sports wagon, and the headlights are brighter than the noon-time sun.  I’d have preferred an A4 Quattro or 328 X-Drive, if either maker provided one with a manual trans in a sports wagon, but they don’t.


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## Stelcom66 (May 27, 2018)

Ashful said:


> My mother owned two Saab 900’s and one Saab 9000 (or whatever they changed those models to in later years).  Those cars had absolutely no redeeming qualities:...



Then that may explain why the older Saabs I see for sale are quite inexpensive. I've been looking for an older (even 15 yrs) economical car with a manual transmission. High miles are OK as I have a company van. I have an old pickup truck now, it's been useful for firewood and other uses - but it would be nice to have a car. 

There was a Saab several years ago that actually had a Subaru engine, don't recall the model. It was a Saab version of the Subaru Impreza. I just remembered - thinking of 2-stroke engines and gas containers, Saab made a 3 cylinder 2-stroke years ago. Then they had a V4, which was actually a European or British Ford engine. I always challenged my friends to start my '79 99GL within a minute after handing them the keys. None ever did - they weren't able to locate the ignition between the seats on the floor next to the shift lever.


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## bholler (May 27, 2018)

Ashful said:


> My mother owned two Saab 900’s and one Saab 9000 (or whatever they changed those models to in later years).  Those cars had absolutely no redeeming qualities:
> 
> 1.  Not fast
> 2.  Handled more like a truck than a sporty coupe/sedan
> ...


Many cars went back to just pleated filters with a reusable canister.  My wifes previous 2 cars a mazda 6 and a jetta both had them.  Didnt make much difference to me.  But the filter should be cheaper because it is just the filter with no case.  But it isnt.  And most oil plug gaskets are supposed to be replaced every time just no one does.


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## bholler (May 27, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> Then that may explain why the older Saabs I see for sale are quite inexpensive. I've been looking for an older (even 15 yrs) economical car with a manual transmission. High miles are OK as I have a company van. I have an old pickup truck now, it's been useful for firewood and other uses - but it would be nice to have a car.
> 
> There was a Saab several years ago that actually had a Subaru engine, don't recall the model. It was a Saab version of the Subaru Impreza. I just remembered - thinking of 2-stroke engines and gas containers, Saab made a 3 cylinder 2-stroke years ago. Then they had a V4, which was actually a European or British Ford engine. I always challenged my friends to start my '79 99GL within a minute after handing them the keys. None ever did - they weren't able to locate the ignition between the seats on the floor next to the shift lever.


It was not just a subaru engine the whole car was a subaru impreza.  Some of them were wrx also.  You can actually pick one of them up cheaper than a wrx.  But you have the same issues that all subarus have.  I just cant beleive they have not addressed the head gasket issue yet.  Any other company with a serious flaw like that would get all kinds of crap for it.  But subaru fans dont care.


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## Stelcom66 (May 27, 2018)

bholler said:


> It was not just a subaru engine the whole car was a subaru impreza.  Some of them were wrx also.  You can actually pick one of them up cheaper than a wrx.  But you have the same issues that all subarus have.  I just cant beleive they have not addressed the head gasket issue yet.  Any other company with a serious flaw like that would get all kinds of crap for it.  But subaru fans dont care.



That's the thing - Subaru fans don't care. I don't know whats wrong with me - but I'd like to own a Subaru again with a manual transmission. But - I need something that can go 200+k miles without much concern. My truck likely can, but you typically don't hear of Subarus going that long without the head gaskets failing. I always liked Volvos, but not leather seats. Do any Volvos have cloth seats? Haven't seen any yet. I occasionally look on Craigslist for older Subarus with the 2.2L engine, those I believe are 'closed deck' which typically don't have the head gasket issues. Those I find though, are as expected usually in rough shape. 

As for oil changes - very easy on the Subarus. The filter was close to the front of the engine, easily accessed underneath after removing the plastic shield. I still have a PH3593 filter I never used.


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## Ashful (May 27, 2018)

Stelcom66 said:


> I always liked Volvos, but not leather seats. Do any Volvos have cloth seats? Haven't seen any yet.


Wow... that’s like saying you like Jello brand instant pudding, but not Creme Brûlée.  I live with cloth seats in my pickup truck, but only because it’s a truck, I’d never buy a car with anything but leather.  Heck, I usually pay for the upgraded better grade leather (eg. Laguna leather vs. Nappa or Alcantara).  The Volvo leather is not as soft as what’s in my other cars, but it is durable.


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## Stelcom66 (May 27, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Wow... that’s like saying you like Jello brand instant pudding, but not Creme Brûlée.  I live with cloth seats in my pickup truck, but only because it’s a truck, I’d never buy a car with anything but leather.  Heck, I usually pay for the upgraded better grade leather (eg. Laguna leather vs. Nappa or Alcantara).  The Volvo leather is not as soft as what’s in my other cars, but it is durable.



Along with that trend - I don't even know what Creme Brulee is! (How in the world did you enter the punctuation above the u and e?) Sounds luxurious though. I know I'm in the minority - also the vehicles I buy are with cash and older. By the time I'd consider them, the leather seats are usually worn and cracked. The Honda Pilot I had that I traded in last June for an older pickup truck had leather. Got the EX-L because heated seats (only in leather) came standard. I was used to heated cloth seats in several Subarus I had. 

I know leather has advantages. I realized one last summer - the Pilot had a sunroof, an option I never had before. I left it open once overnight - poured the next morning. A towel took care of the water well enough.


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## Don.S (May 27, 2018)

Am I the only person who never uses the nozzle? I can't rememer the last time I didn't just screw it off and dump my gas right from the can.


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## Ashful (May 28, 2018)

Don.S said:


> Am I the only person who never uses the nozzle? I can't rememer the last time I didn't just screw it off and dump my gas right from the can.



I do that with my zero turn, the mouth on the gas tank must be 3” diameter.  But on machines with a 1.5” gas tank cap, I prefer to use the nozzle.


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## firefighterjake (May 29, 2018)

bholler said:


> It was not just a subaru engine the whole car was a subaru impreza.  Some of them were wrx also.  You can actually pick one of them up cheaper than a wrx.  But you have the same issues that all subarus have.  I just cant beleive they have not addressed the head gasket issue yet.  Any other company with a serious flaw like that would get all kinds of crap for it.  But subaru fans dont care.



http://autoweek.com/article/car-new...t-ever-saabaru-japanese-genes-swedish-massage

The "Saabaru"! Saw one of these cars at this weekend's Autocross Event in Bangor.


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## bholler (May 29, 2018)

firefighterjake said:


> http://autoweek.com/article/car-new...t-ever-saabaru-japanese-genes-swedish-massage
> 
> The "Saabaru"! Saw one of these cars at this weekend's Autocross Event in Bangor.


Ok cool they were all wrxs.  I though they had both.


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## semipro (Jun 6, 2018)

Another vote for the "No Spill" type and a general comment. 
There are many that dislike the EPA requirement for unvented cans. I maintain that they are a good thing, especially for winter engine starting.  Keeping the contents of the can under pressure keeps the lighter (lower molecular weight) portions of gas in the can.  These are the same, very volatile parts of gas that enable good cold weather starting for things like saws and splitters.


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