# 36" bar



## Ashful (Jul 24, 2013)

I've decided it's time to buy a bigger bar for some of these 50"+ trees I've been tackling. Someday I might buy that 100cc+ power head, but for now I'll be running it on my 85cc Stihl 064. Stihl rates this saw to run a 42" bar, so it should pull 36" full comp okay.

My saws are all set up for 0.375" x 0.050" chain. I see many of the 36" bars are 0.063", but there are also many options in 0.050". I'm assuming the rim sprocket I keep on the 064 (for my 28" bar) will only run 0.050", but I've not looked into that.

Advice? I'm inclined to stick with 0.375" x 0.050", unless there's some _very good_ reason I should move up to 0.063" and/or 0.404" for the bigger bar.  I'd also appreciate any advice (from experience) running skip vs. full comp with this combo of power and bar length.  I'm cutting almost exclusively oak and ash.

Thanks!


----------



## clemsonfor (Jul 24, 2013)

I would stay with the 0.050.  If you go to the 0.063 do you have to change your sprocket?? I think the sprocket will run the larger chain though but not sure?  If you need to change the sprocket for gearing for the larger bar that may not matter anyway, but i have no idea and am just rambeling


----------



## HittinSteel (Jul 24, 2013)

That's a lot of bar for that saw unless your cutting christmas trees. I'd go full skip 3/8" and watch your oil output.


----------



## smokinj (Jul 24, 2013)

Yea I would be thinking 32 inch bar that gets you at-least to a 74 inch tree. You will need a back hoe to move a round that size. Full Skipper chain to!  (I run 28 and a 32) 4 inchs is more than enough to make the cut.


----------



## Thistle (Jul 24, 2013)

I use full skip chain exclusively on all bars over 24",gives me a bit more engine power,clears chips faster & takes less time to sharpen.

My 36 & 42 bars are .063 gauge, 3/8 pitch. The vintage 30" roller nose on the Mac 125 is .404/.063,that basically makes mulch.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 24, 2013)

HittinSteel said:


> That's a lot of bar for that saw unless your cutting christmas trees. I'd go full skip 3/8" and watch your oil output.


 

Is it really? That saw is like a light saber with 28" full comp, and Stihl spec's it to run 42". I'd think it'd do okay with 36" (or better, 32").





smokinj said:


> Yea I would be thinking 32 inch bar that gets you at-least to a 74 inch tree. You will need a back hoe to move a round that size. Full Skipper chain to!  (I run 28 and a 32) 4 inchs is more than enough to make the cut.


 
32" is perhaps what I should've had them put on this saw when I bought it, but I went 28" for better weight and speed. I figured with a 28" already on-hand, a 32" seems redundant. My reasoning for a 36" is partly so that I can take trees up to 36" from one position. I come across too many that are easy to cut from one side, and downright dangerous (no escape path) from the other.


----------



## smokinj (Jul 24, 2013)

The 064 got enough torque to do it just not going to be hauling butt. What is the max rpm rating on an 064?


----------



## Ashful (Jul 24, 2013)

smokinj said:


> What is the max rpm rating on an 064?


 

13,000

Found a few interesting posts over at AS:



			
				Moe said:
			
		

> 064 is a wonderfull saw.... I had a 460 for a while. The 064 didn't seem much heavier or clumsier but it has noticably more grunt.


 


			
				Trigger Time said:
			
		

> I bought a new 460 then ended up with 064 that need a PC kit. Popped an OEM PC kit on the old girl.............Sold the 460!


 


			
				Camel Joe said:
			
		

> Running saws:
> 064 36"
> 056 36"
> 046 28"
> ...


----------



## Ashful (Jul 24, 2013)

Also found this response to a question I posted some time ago, about buying a bigger bar for this saw (which I obviously never got around to doing):





Thistle said:


> 36" .063 gauge bar & full skip chain on that saw will rock your world.....


----------



## smokinj (Jul 24, 2013)

Joful said:


> 13,000
> 
> Found a few interesting posts over at AS:


 
He darn sure never ran my 460 I running 13800 rpm.....But it should do it fine.


----------



## Thistle (Jul 24, 2013)

Joful said:


> Also found this response to a question I posted some time ago, about buying a bigger bar for this saw (which I obviously never got around to doing):


   And it will too. Certainly not quite as much fun as a 100cc+ saw,but will work nicely.


----------



## MasterMech (Jul 24, 2013)

I think you'd do okay with a 36" bar on that 064. Especially if you find an early 066 top end to squash on there. . Seriously tho, 36" should be well within that saws range.

I would do 3/8" and skip pattern chain for it for chip clearing reasons. Your rim sprocket will run whatever gauge you want to throw on it. Match the chain to the bar and the sprocket will be fine unless you change pitch.

36" I'd give a "light" bar some consideration.


----------



## amateur cutter (Jul 24, 2013)

Another vote for full skip chain. My 064 will run .050 3/8 skip well on a 32'bar, & I bet it would do fine at 36". Plenty of saw, but I still want a 100cc power head some day. A C


----------



## Bigg_Redd (Jul 25, 2013)

Thistle said:


> I use full skip chain exclusively on all bars *without exception*


 
Me too


----------



## smokinj (Jul 25, 2013)

Your missing out on a lot of fun....If you can pull a full comp pull it.  Now 36 inch on a 064 maybe not. But a 880 will pull full comp 41 inch with ease.

460 28 inch full comp. Very clean wood. Red Oak Good clean wood and full comp makes chicken bedding quick!






880 41 inch bar Clean wood full comp another Red. I had chips up to my knees on each full cut.


----------



## lukem (Jul 25, 2013)

I wouldn't go with any more cutters than you need to, unless you have a chain grinder. One guy's opinion.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

Okay, guys. Trying to spend a ton on a bar, but still wanting a pro (solid) bar with sprocket nose, what do you think of this combo?

Carlton 36" Speed Tip Chainsaw Bar for Stihl (3642A3114ST) 114 Drive Links
36" Oregon Chainsaw Chain Loop, full chisel, skip (75JGX-114 Drive Links)

I do have a chain grinder.


----------



## smokinj (Jul 25, 2013)

Joful said:


> Okay, guys. Trying to spend a ton on a bar, but still wanting a pro (solid) bar with sprocket nose, what do you think of this combo?
> 
> Carlton 36" Speed Tip Chainsaw Bar for Stihl (3642A3114ST) 114 Drive Links
> 36" Oregon Chainsaw Chain Loop, full chisel, skip (75JGX-114 Drive Links)
> ...


 
Do you have a link to exactly what your looking at?


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Do you have a link to exactly what your looking at?


 

Modified previous post to include links.


----------



## smokinj (Jul 25, 2013)

Looks good to me.......


----------



## Thistle (Jul 25, 2013)

Here ya go - http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=236&item=687 Oregon Power Match bar $91.95

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=312&item=345 Oregon 75JGX 114 drive links $27.95

Plus every order at TreeStuff.com $100 or more has FREE shipping.I can order from them on Monday morning,the package will be on my front step Wednesday afternoon  Baileys is great (And I just bought 4 Woodland Pro ripping chains from them last month) but their shipping is outrageous & I usually have to wait 7-10 days for items to arrive,even in stock merchandise.


----------



## HittinSteel (Jul 25, 2013)

Thistle is right...... but I do remember seeing a recent free shipping promo from Baileys. Otherwise, when you put that bar in your shopping cart, get ready to faint when the shipping charge shows up. I use Baileys as a last resort for chainsaw parts because of this.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

Thanks, guys! Actually, I'll almost certainly buy this from my local Stihl dealer, was just using Bailey's for the spec's. My local dealer's prices tend to be better than Bailey's, they almost always have what I need in stock (so no shipping), and they're a huge help with advice.

_edit:  Just called my local Stihl dealer.  They have the Stihl Rollomatic ES 36" x 0.050" x 0.375" in stock for $80.  Even cheaper than the Carlton at Bailey's!  Maybe I'll try a grease-less bar, after all._


----------



## amateur cutter (Jul 25, 2013)

Go with the Stihl chain, much better & longer lasting than Oregon, don't worry about the nose sprocket, they last. Peg the oiler & pull the trigger. A C


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

Good to know! I confirmed my local dealer has a spool of 3/8" 0.050" full chisel skip, but did not ask what brand. They seem to carry Stihl, Husqvarna, Oregon, and Carlton equally, so I can ask for Stihl, but I'll likely be buying whatever he has on the spool!

They sell 28" loops of Stihl 33-RSC for about $19, and 20" loops for about $17, with a deal of 3 for the price of 2 chains. That puts the loop price at $13 and $11, respectively. A pretty good deal, IMO.


----------



## MasterMech (Jul 25, 2013)

That's pretty good! Are those pre-cut loops?


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Are those pre-cut loops?


 

Yes and no. They have miles on spools, but also stock a bunch of pre-cut loops. If they have a loop, they grab that first, otherwise they make it on the spot. On one or two occasions, they've had one or two loops to give me, and have made the balance of the order from spools.


----------



## DexterDay (Jul 25, 2013)

Your rim won't mind the .063 or the .050. It's a matter of staying with 3/8". That's all that your rim sprocket cares about. The extra .013" of thickness is built into all 3/8" rims. When you buy a rim, it doesn't ask the thickness (gauge) of chain. Just an FYI if you were still wondering. 


I have both .063 and .050 20" bars (the .063 was a mistake and getting ready to sell. Used once. Still new with chain)

I try to run everything .050, but the extra thickness is needed for serious bars. If going over 36", I would highly recommend the .063"


----------



## smokinj (Jul 25, 2013)

If you have to have. 63 then your talking north of 110cc.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 25, 2013)

Cool.  Thanks, guys.  Lucky for me, the 36" ES bar they have in stock at my dealer is 3/8" x 0.050"!


----------



## MasterMech (Jul 25, 2013)

Does anybody know offhand if just the drive links are thicker on .063?  Or the tie-straps and/or cutters?  If just the drivelinks and tie-straps are thicker, I see no disadvantage to .063 other than perhaps extra mass in the chain.  Stihl for some reason specs saws all the way down to the MS230 with .325" .063" chain.  I would think .050" would be more than sufficient but I doubt they would deploy .063" on the smaller saws if it had a negative impact on performance.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 26, 2013)

Well, unless the cutters and ties are thinner, it must be at least 0.013" wider!  I wouldn't expect that to make a real big difference, tho.


----------



## clemsonfor (Jul 26, 2013)

Joful said:


> Good to know! I confirmed my local dealer has a spool of 3/8" 0.050" full chisel skip, but did not ask what brand. They seem to carry Stihl, Husqvarna, Oregon, and Carlton equally, so I can ask for Stihl, but I'll likely be buying whatever he has on the spool!
> 
> They sell 28" loops of Stihl 33-RSC for about $19, and 20" loops for about $17, with a deal of 3 for the price of 2 chains. That puts the loop price at $13 and $11, respectively. A pretty good deal, IMO.


 yep thats a deal! i wish we had dealers like that around here!

AS as far as the baileys free shipping i think i got that email a few weeks back, maybe it was months now??


----------



## Ashful (Jul 28, 2013)

So how important would it be to go wide-nose?  I'm guessing this bar is not, but its what they had on the shelf.


----------



## DexterDay (Jul 28, 2013)

As long as its not a hard nose (its not), that will be just fine.

The ES bars are some of the better bars out there. The Lite series is slightly lighter, but your gonna pay extra. Tech lite and Sugi make nice bars, but Tech lite only makes 2 sizes and 36" aint one of them. 

Thats a fine bar. IMHO


----------



## Ashful (Jul 28, 2013)

Yeah, saw some of the light bars on Baileys, but they were more than 2x what I paid for the ES.


----------



## DexterDay (Jul 28, 2013)

The ES is one of my personal fav's. Its a well built bar and was made exclusively for your saw (oiling).

I paid about $100 for my 32" ES bar and Skip tooth chain. 

As for the comments on skip tooth. I bought a 3 pack of 20" just because they were cheap. I normally run an 18" on my 036 and 20" on my 460. I put the skipper on both of them (put a 20" on 036) and Holy chit!! 

I now run skip on almost everything.  I haven't seen a noticeable difference in run time between sharpening and they are Much, MUCH easier to sharpen. 

So whether or not the 064 will pull the Full comp 36". I'd personally buy a skipper for it also and give it a whirl. Definitely helps to keep the RPMs up.. Way Up!!


----------



## smokinj (Jul 28, 2013)

Full comp will cut much faster than skip. As long as your pruning a clean saw and your clearing chips.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 28, 2013)

I actually had meant to buy two skips and one full comp, but the saw shop was real busy when I stopped in to buy this stuff (and I got distracted by the 084 they were trying to sell me), so I just ended up with three skip. I'll have to pick up a full comp next time I'm out there, so I can compare!

I paid $80 for this bar, but the chain was more spendy than what I've bought in the past. Something like $60 for three full chisel .050 x .375 x 114 link skips. I forgot to check the chain brand, as it came off a spool. They dropped the loops into Husqvarna boxes, but I suspect it's not Husqvarna chain, as they mostly carry Stihl, Oregon, Carlton.


----------



## smokinj (Jul 28, 2013)

Not sure that saw will pull it. But be nice to find out. My 460 good at 28 but not 32.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 28, 2013)

Will let you know!


----------



## MasterMech (Jul 29, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> The Lite series is slightly lighter,​


 My 28" ES Light feels lighter than my 20" ES.  Just a guess since I haven't put 'em to the scale yet.

Wide nose isn't as important on the longer bars as you are less likely to be doing any plunge cutting with them.  I sure do like 'em better when the nose is buried however.  Less resistance.


----------



## HittinSteel (Jul 29, 2013)

Husky chain is Oregon


----------



## Ashful (Jul 29, 2013)

HittinSteel said:


> Husky chain is Oregon



I remember reading that Oregon makes Husky's chain.  I just meant that I hadn't seen Husq-labeled chain before, at that shop.


----------



## clemsonfor (Jul 29, 2013)

just missed the baileys free shipping!!  Or you ordered to soon. I had an email i think was sent this weekend about free shipping on orders over $99. Yep it was sent friday afternoon.


----------



## Ashful (Jul 29, 2013)

I don't find Bailey's pricing to be as good as my local Stihl dealer, free shipping or not!

I was looking for some info on narrow vs. wide nose bar, and found very little "official" info, other than this:

"Stihl offer different diameter noses in some of 
their Rollamatic E and ES bars. The narrower bar 
noses have reduced chance of kickback while 
the wider noses give higher boring performance."

Most forum replies on the subject seem to indicate wide nose is a must for plunge cutting, but for the reason that it's supposed to have less kickback, which seems to be the right response with the wrong reasoning.


----------



## amateur cutter (Jul 29, 2013)

I plunge cut with my bars quite often, they're narrow nose. No real problems, you just have to be cautious. I'm no pro, but I'll plunge without hesitation when the situation calls for it. A C


----------



## Ashful (Jul 29, 2013)

Cool.  I was using the 064 tonight, but still have the 28" Windsor Speed Tip mounted.  It's not quite as narrow as Stihl's Rollomatic narrow nose, but it's definitely not a wide nose either.  It tapers middle to end, like the Stihl narrow.  I've done lots of plunging and nose-buried cutting with it (the primary reason I felt need for a 36" bar), and haven't had any trouble, either.


----------



## MasterMech (Jul 30, 2013)

Joful said:


> Cool. I was using the 064 tonight, but still have the 28" Windsor Speed Tip mounted. It's not quite as narrow as Stihl's Rollomatic narrow nose, but it's definitely not a wide nose either. It tapers middle to end, like the Stihl narrow. I've done lots of plunging and nose-buried cutting with it (the primary reason I felt need for a 36" bar), and haven't had any trouble, either.


 


amateur cutter said:


> I plunge cut with my bars quite often, they're narrow nose. No real problems, you just have to be cautious. I'm no pro, but I'll plunge without hesitation when the situation calls for it. A C


 
I never said they wouldn't plunge, just that I prefer the wide-nose variants when that kind of work is called for.


----------



## Ashful (Aug 2, 2013)

Got it mounted up tonight:


Guess I gotta clean that saw up a bit, now!

Also got a shot of my travel kit, while I was out there.


----------



## Ashful (Aug 2, 2013)

Almost forgot... checked max RPM with this big bar mounted, and found it was only 10,600 on a cold engine at WOT. Was getting just a bit of 4-stroking at top, so seemed all was tuned well, but surprised to see RPM's so low. I think it's spec'd at 13,000. Never checked it on the 28" bar (which looks tiny / wimpy, after mounting the 36"!).


----------



## DexterDay (Aug 2, 2013)

Did you tune it on the 28"?


----------



## Ashful (Aug 2, 2013)

Yes... and I did consider re-tuning for 36", but here's why I didn't:

1. When setting "L", clutch is not even engaged, bar length has no effect.
2. When setting "H", you play the game between max RPM and four-stroking... but that's only a means to an end. The real goal is to have the saw adjusted so that proper mix is achieved under load, and bar length ain't really the primary factor on load, when I can flat out stall the saw with any size bar.

I am guessing though, that the 36" bar is why I'm only hitting 10,600. I don't believe this is a tuning issue, but simply what this saw can spin with that kind of load. I will try to check that this weekend.


----------



## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2013)

Joful said:


> When setting "H", you play the game between max RPM and four-stroking... but that's only a means to an end. The real goal is to have the saw adjusted so that proper mix is achieved under load, and bar length ain't really the primary factor on load, when I can flat out stall the saw with any size bar.


 
Stihl (and Husky too) uses the H setting to limit max RPM on saws with unlimited ignition coils.  In recent years, saws are switching to running leaner fuel systems and utilizing electronics in the coil to set a "redline" RPM.  So theoretically, the newer saws are set to the optimum fuel/air ratio regardless of what size bar is on it.  Do you think an M-Tronic or Auto-Tune saw knows what size bar is on it?  Many things affect the optimum fuel settings on your carburetor.  Barometric pressure (altitude/weather), ambient temperature, fuel type/quality, amongst other things.  Bar length is not one of them.  I see no reason you can't lean it out some to get closer to your saw's Max unloaded RPM spec (in your owners manual I believe).


----------



## Ashful (Aug 3, 2013)

Okay... I'll do it!

That begs the question, though... why not just leave it lean when I switch back to 28"?  It's not like I sit there pulling the throttle wide open under no load.


----------



## DexterDay (Aug 3, 2013)

I dont know what the SOP is. But I always "Tune" w/ a bar on. It isnt much load. But compared to No Bar, it is a load indeed. And as MM says, the saw is designed to rum at a certain RPM (depends on Saw), so why not run as close to it as possible. Obviously veering towards the side of safety (rich). But running a saw at 10,000 R's, that can and will run 12,000 is a waste. IMO.

Run that MoFo! LOL


----------



## Ashful (Aug 3, 2013)

There's also the factor of how much I trust this tach in non-contact mode!


----------



## smokinj (Aug 4, 2013)

If you got a big round tune it in the cut!


----------



## Ashful (Aug 4, 2013)

Might take two people to do that safely. Will have to see if I can find video on that procedure.  As it is, tuning this extremely nose-heavy rig is a challenge on the ground! Might try clamping rear handle down to my bench, instead.


----------



## smokinj (Aug 4, 2013)

If you can tune by ear you just drop to idle make small adjustment repeat untill happy


----------

