# Another CEMI Concept II insert



## gfansher (Jan 23, 2020)

So i've been reading though the CEMI posts and have yet to find a user manual for the Concept II. We bought our house in October 2019 and it had a this insert in it. We've been using it for the last couple weeks to offset our heat and boy does it get warm in the house. When we bought the house the inspector noted the chimney had a new SS liner installed and said he hadn't seen a chimney this nice in awhile. From reading all the threads on here though, i'm heavily questioning if they did a legit install to make this insert safe/up to code. I see where everyone says they're unsafe to operate without the proper connections but....weren't they designed 40 years ago to operate without a SS liner and connector? What's so different? I mean, i know everything can kill you in 2020 and everything we do is based on fear first but seriously, what is different for operating these inserts today compared to 20+ years ago?


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## Mech e (Jan 23, 2020)

Found a manual online but you have to purchase it.  Looks like they scanned a paper copy to pdf format and want to be compensated for their effort.






						Cemi Wood Stove Manual
					

Need Cemi Wood Stove Manual? Order Cemi Wood Stove Manual Online Now for Fast Shipping. Call or Click 5306150049 shop@mousewarez.com...




					stove-parts-plus.com


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## john26 (Jan 23, 2020)

I believe those inserts had a stainless steel heat exchanger in them much like a gas furnace.    I gueess the heat exchanger could rust out or crack releasing CO2 into the room.  They did have some sort of secondary burn chamber where hot secondary air was introduced around the heat exchanger.   As far as an appliance connector is there any way to remove the trim around the insert to see the connection if any?    I personally see it very hard to make an adapter to fit that particular insert.


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## rwhite (Jan 23, 2020)

gfansher said:


> So i've been reading though the CEMI posts and have yet to find a user manual for the Concept II. We bought our house in October 2019 and it had a this insert in it. We've been using it for the last couple weeks to offset our heat and boy does it get warm in the house. When we bought the house the inspector noted the chimney had a new SS liner installed and said he hadn't seen a chimney this nice in awhile. From reading all the threads on here though, i'm heavily questioning if they did a legit install to make this insert safe/up to code. I see where everyone says they're unsafe to operate without the proper connections but....weren't they designed 40 years ago to operate without a SS liner and connector? What's so different? I mean, i know everything can kill you in 2020 and everything we do is based on fear first but seriously, what is different for operating these inserts today compared to 20+ years ago?


Without proper connections they weren't safe 40 years ago either. Just had a friend tha switched to a propane insert because he got tired of his 2 chimney fires every year from his slammer, for the last 20 years!


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## gfansher (Jan 27, 2020)

I just find it hard to believe that this product was made and was completely unsafe from day 1. Naive question here but, if a fire starts in the chimney what's the worst thing that can happen? I mean it's made of layers of brick and ours has a new stainless liner. I mean, outdoor fire pits are just brick surround and it's not like it's getting destroyed every other year. I can completely understand material degredation....the internals corroding to a point that it allows CO into the heated air ducting....that makes sense. I just can't see how a high quality piece from 30-40 years ago is just naturally unsafe to use. With that said, we have a 96% efficiency dual stage furnace that works great. Unless you have a fairly endless supply of free wood to chop, these probably don't make much sense to use....yes? No?

Thanks for the replies.


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## john26 (Jan 27, 2020)

this could happen








						Mansion blaze started by chimney fire, investigators say
					

The fire spread from the chimney through an opening in the mortar, officials said.




					www.boston.com
				






That stove would most likely be safe to use if a proper connection could be made to connect to an insulated liner.  My personal opinion is that Cemi II is not worth the time and expense to install properly there are a lot used inserts out there for sale very cheap that are much more efficient and cleaner burning.  I would imagine the glass which is actually Mica would get very dirty and at best give of a dim orange glow.  That would be enough to count me out I like a nice fire view.  I purchased a lightly used Lopi freedom for $360 and a dirty but very operational Napoleon 1401 for $75.  I don't think I would haul the Cemi 2 home for free.  Look for a good modern used insert and hook to you existing liner if its in good shape.


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## bholler (Jan 27, 2020)

gfansher said:


> I just find it hard to believe that this product was made and was completely unsafe from day 1. Naive question here but, if a fire starts in the chimney what's the worst thing that can happen? I mean it's made of layers of brick and ours has a new stainless liner. I mean, outdoor fire pits are just brick surround and it's not like it's getting destroyed every other year. I can completely understand material degredation....the internals corroding to a point that it allows CO into the heated air ducting....that makes sense. I just can't see how a high quality piece from 30-40 years ago is just naturally unsafe to use. With that said, we have a 96% efficiency dual stage furnace that works great. Unless you have a fairly endless supply of free wood to chop, these probably don't make much sense to use....yes? No?
> 
> Thanks for the replies.


Lots of products have been unsafe from the start through the years.  At the time they were making inserts like this they though doing it that way was fine.  But it didn't take long for problems to start showing up.   That is why code was changed making it illegal to install inserts without atleast a direct connection.

There are many many ways that a chimney fire can turn into a structure fire.  And with an insert just slid into the fireplace the chimney fire can be extremely intense.   That makes those risks higher.

As far as whether it makes sense for you to burn wood that is a decision that you have to make for yourself


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## gfansher (Jan 28, 2020)

Everyone, i really appreciate the feedback and responses. Not doubting anyones input as i don't have the experience you all have....just a newb with questions here based off this specific unit. While i understand newer units may potentially be better in certain areas, if i pull this thing out, nothings going back in which means....i'm not pulling it out. It's a nice looking piece at the least, good shape.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, i just can't take answers that are based on fear as a final answer.

Does anyone on here have first hand experience with the Cemi Concept 2? Have you pulled yours out or installed one in recent memory? Everything i'm seeing on comments references potential chimney fires because the back of the unit isn't connected to the chimney stack/etc. The manual and ads/images online show & say that it's "virtually smokeless & pollution free." The design of this seems to just continually recirculate smoke & spent gases to be re-burned. The way the firebox is contained, it looks virtually impossible for flames to actually get into the chimney. I'll be honest, 99% of my concern is with the condition of the air chamber that recirculates around the firebox and any potential cracks it may have that could let CO in the house. I've installed 2 CO alarms in the living room as of now. We don't burn through the night & if my wife isn't going to be home, we don't start the fire. This is 99.9% for ambiance & extra warmth on top of our 73 degree thermostat setting (my wife gets cold in the summer!).


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## bholler (Jan 28, 2020)

bholler said:


> Lots of products have been unsafe from the start through the years.  At the time they were making inserts like this they though doing it that way was fine.  But it didn't take long for problems to start showing up.   That is why code was changed making it illegal to install inserts without atleast a direct connection.
> 
> There are many many ways that a chimney fire can turn into a structure fire.  And with an insert just slid into the fireplace the chimney fire can be extremely intense.   That makes those risks higher.





gfansher said:


> Everyone, i really appreciate the feedback and responses. Not doubting anyones input as i don't have the experience you all have....just a newb with questions here based off this specific unit. While i understand newer units may potentially be better in certain areas, if i pull this thing out, nothings going back in which means....i'm not pulling it out. It's a nice looking piece at the least, good shape.
> 
> Not trying to beat a dead horse here, i just can't take answers that are based on fear as a final answer.
> 
> Does anyone on here have first hand experience with the Cemi Concept 2? Have you pulled yours out or installed one in recent memory? Everything i'm seeing on comments references potential chimney fires because the back of the unit isn't connected to the chimney stack/etc. The manual and ads/images online show & say that it's "virtually smokeless & pollution free." The design of this seems to just continually recirculate smoke & spent gases to be re-burned. The way the firebox is contained, it looks virtually impossible for flames to actually get into the chimney. I'll be honest, 99% of my concern is with the condition of the air chamber that recirculates around the firebox and any potential cracks it may have that could let CO in the house. I've installed 2 CO alarms in the living room as of now. We don't burn through the night & if my wife isn't going to be home, we don't start the fire. This is 99.9% for ambiance & extra warmth on top of our 73 degree thermostat setting (my wife gets cold in the summer!).


If it is hooked to a proper stainless liner correctly there is no problem.  If it is not hooked to a liner don't use it.


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## mellow (Jan 31, 2020)

If I remember correctly the cemi had a crappy rear exhaust design that did not allow it to be adapted to a liner, it had a long rear exhaust on it that went the width of the insert, never did see one hooked up to a liner as it was designed to be used as a slammer.

Pull it out and look for yourself, I am pretty sure it is about impossible to hookup a liner to that model.


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