# Looking for a bigger Stihl



## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

Seeking opinions for a saw to handle 25-30" diameter rounds.  Want enough power to handle just about any job.  Not sure if a 440 or 660 would be better with say a 30" bar. 

I'm partnering up with a guy who I co-own my splitter with to keep the cost down here as well.  Neither of us would use it everyday, but it would be great to have around when you want to rip and tear.

If I put a 20" bar on those powerheads, it would make bucking a lot quicker for normal sized stuff.  Only problem is the fatigue factor.  I don't like using heavy saws all that often.

I think people tend to lust after the high h.p. without considering how those are to operate day in and day out.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 12, 2013)

If you're buying new, the 440 is likely not a contender as it has been replaced by the 441.

I'd check out the 461 if it was me. Should run a 28" bar just fine. The 441/460/461, shouldn't be that much heaver than your 290.  The 660 is a different story, it is a big honking cumbersome saw.


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## Freakingstang (Aug 12, 2013)

24 to 30" is a big jump.  A 440/460 will run a 24" just fine, but will struggle on the larger 32" bars.  when I had a 440, 460 and 660, I ran a 20" on the 440 25" on the 460 and a 28-36" on the 660.  The 660 is a heavy brute and will wear you out right quick.  a 440/441/460/461 would be ideal with a 25" and be able to handle a 28-32 on occasion if you needed it.  a 25" will handle one helluva tree.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

How much faster would a 440 be on a 22" diameter log than a 290?  Is it worth spending $600 a piece for occasional use?


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## Freakingstang (Aug 12, 2013)

quite a bit faster. The 290 is a 56cc mid range saw for people that cut 2-3 cord a year imo.  The 440 is 70cc saw. it will rip through some 20" hardwood. I'm kind of a saw snob, but for years I only cut with a 65-70cc saw for just firewood.  the older I get I like the lighter saw (260 sized) for the smaller stuff.

It depends on how much you cut if you can justify it.  If you are only cutting a tree here and there, then you won't be happy shelling out a ton of cash on a big pro saw.  I don't remember offhand how much a 290 weighs, but id bet that it is real close to a 440.  personally I'd buy a 044/440 and sell off the 290, then down the road look for a nice 260 pro or 261.


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## TreePointer (Aug 12, 2013)

From Stihl's current offerings, I'd go for the 461 right now. If you run into a good deal on a used 660, go for it (you can never have too many saws). Keep in mind that the 661 is supposed to be released in the USA soon (this fall?) with its improvements.

My "big" saw right now is Makita 7901 (actually a 6401 with an OEM 79cc top end). It usually wears a 24" bar and can pull a 32" full comp chain just fine in hardwoods.

I did tell my favorite Stihl dealer to hold a 661 for me when he gets one. It really is unfair because he knows I have CAD.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 12, 2013)

1) My 2 year old 440 runs the sh_t out of a 32" bar

2) The 660 is a huge saw and used by very few professional loggers ("arborists" may pipe down now)

3) You need not run a 30" bar to cut 30" rounds - a 24" will work just dandy

4) Forget the 660


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 12, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> How much faster would a 440 be on a 22" diameter log than a 290? Is it worth spending $600 a piece for occasional use?


 
For me it has nothing to do with speed.  My 440 replaced an 8 year old 290 (the 290 cut many cords and is still running strong) because I was tired of the cut-roll-cut-roll-cut wresting match I'd go though once or twice a year with my 290.  With the 440 it's cut-roll-finish.  Yes it's faster in the cut but it's main time saving is in not having to dink around rolling and re-rolling big logs.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> From Stihl's current offerings, I'd go for the 461 right now. If you run into a good deal on a used 660, go for it (you can never have too many saws). Keep in mind that the 661 is supposed to be released in the USA soon (this fall?) with its improvements.
> 
> My "big" saw right now is Makita 7901 (actually a 6401 with an OEM 79cc top end). It usually wears a 24" bar and can pull a 32" full comp chain just fine in hardwoods.
> 
> I did tell my favorite Stihl dealer to hold a 661 for me when he gets one. It really is unfair because he knows I have CAD.


 
the 660 is almost the same price as the 461.


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## TreePointer (Aug 12, 2013)

For my firewooding, I don't really need anything more than my 346XP and the 7901.  Getting any 70cc saw will be a dramatic improvement over a 290.  Heck, even a good 60cc saw (361/362) is in a different league than a 290.

Since you asked which Stihl saw I'd want to cut 25-30" logs, that would put me in the 70cc saws (440/441/460/461).  I could go bigger, but I don't like lugging extra weight if It's not necessary.  That's why I'd only add a 660 to my stable if I found a good* used* one.  Do I need a 660/661?  No.  Do I want one? Yes (CAD).


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## lukem (Aug 12, 2013)

Go to the dealer and pick up (not buy...just physically pick it up and hold it) a 660.  Have them put a 28 or 32 bar and chain on it.  Stand there and hold it for about 5 minutes.  

Then do the same thing with a 441 or 460.

Then think to yourself, this 660 isn't going to cut *that* much faster unless I have this enormous bar buried in hardwoood, is it worth the extra weight?

Then make your decision.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

lukem said:


> Go to the dealer and pick up (not buy...just physically pick it up and hold it) a 660. Have them put a 28 or 32 bar and chain on it. Stand there and hold it for about 5 minutes.
> 
> Then do the same thing with a 441 or 460.
> 
> ...


 
I wanted an ultra lightweight and went to the dealer this morning and picked up a 201T.  That at 9 pounds is too heavy to be a one hander.  I know what you mean.  This saw won't be a daily use saw.  I still use my 192 whenever I can.  At 7 pounds, there's nothing better to me.


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## StihlHead (Aug 12, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> 1) My 2 year old 440 runs the sh_t out of a 32" bar
> 
> 2) The 660 is a huge saw and used by very few professional loggers ("arborists" may pipe down now)
> 
> ...


 
What he said...

I rarely use my 066, but it is a nice saw to run in really big wood (3'+ stuff). I bought my 066 from an arborist. I bought my 044 from a faller. The 661 is coming out soon. Spring loaded, a beefed up 441-M with 461 style porting. I much prefer the 044/440 over the 460 (I sold my 460). Lighter, smoother, and with a DP muffler cover about the same power.


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## ScotO (Aug 12, 2013)

Just go and buy an 090 and after a couple hours with that saw, you won't ever be asking for a bigger Stihl again......but you WILL be looking for a smaller one!!

I think the 046/460/461 would be the perfect saw for your application.  Or a Husqvarna 372XP.  Either or (but I still prefer Stihl).
I run the CHIT out of a 30" bar with my stock 372XP and have yet to complain about it.  I'll be building my 046 with a big bore kit this winter, and a woods port -squish mod, and a muffler mod.....I am anxious to get to that project! (I may have a 372XP for sale after I get that done!)


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Just go and buy an 090 and after a couple hours with that saw, you won't ever be asking for a bigger Stihl again......but you WILL be looking for a smaller one!!
> 
> I think the 046/460/461 would be the perfect saw for your application. Or a Husqvarna 372XP. Either or (but I still prefer Stihl).
> I run the CHIT out of a 30" bar with my stock 372XP and have yet to complain about it. I'll be building my 046 with a big bore kit this winter, and a woods port -squish mod, and a muffler mod.....I am anxious to get to that project! (I may have a 372XP for sale after I get that done!)


 
No chain brake on that 090.  Cool videos on youtube of it.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

according to this video a 660 is twice as fast as a 361.  doesn't matter much...but interesting all the same


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## ScotO (Aug 12, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> according to this video a 660 is twice as fast as a 361. doesn't matter much...but interesting all the same


It's going to be much faster....almost triple the displacement and more stroke, and running at similar RPM's...

Running a 660 is a blast, just not something you want to do bucking firewood all day long.....i'd be leaning towards a 70-80cc saw like the 460.......


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## smokinj (Aug 12, 2013)

All will do the trick. 460 would be my choice.


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## TreePointer (Aug 12, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> according to this video a 660 is twice as fast as a 361. doesn't matter much...but interesting all the same




Just to make things clear, I am recommending a 70cc+ saw but not a 660/661 because of their heavier weights.

My point regarding a good 60cc saw (like a 361 or362) was that it will show noticeable improvement over a 56cc 290. Bury a 361/362-20" versus a 290-20" in hardwoods and you will see the difference. They also have much better torque than your 290 for making stumps, better fuel economy, better antivibration tech, and better power-to-weight. I have bucked a good deal of 20-30" logs with my 361. Is it the best option for cutting big logs all day? Of course not. That's where the larger saws shine.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 12, 2013)

If you want to bring one saw a 441 or 461 would work.  If you're bringing more than one  get a 660, or better yet a 395xp.

Lately I tend to use a 50 cc  (254xp) for everyting it will cut and then skip to a 90cc saw.


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## Thistle (Aug 12, 2013)

In all my years I don't recall ever saying or even thinking "Maybe I should've gotten a smaller saw instead.... "


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## smokinj (Aug 12, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> If you want to bring one saw a 441 or 461 would work. If you're bringing more than one get a 660, or better yet a 395xp.
> 
> Lately I tend to use a 50 cc (254xp) for everyting it will cut and then skip to a 90cc saw.


 
I do the same but a 192t 8lbs and quickly move to the 76cc 460.


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

smokinj said:


> I do the same but a 192t 8lbs and quickly move to the 76cc 460.


 
I think I'll get the 461 with a 25" bar if I can talk my buddy into buying a 50% stake.  I have use of a pro saw whenever I need at a fraction of the price of owning by myself.  I don't trust many, but I do believe he's a good person to own tools with.


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## MasterMech (Aug 12, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> I wanted an ultra lightweight and went to the dealer this morning and picked up a 201T.  That at 9 pounds is too heavy to be a one hander.  I know what you mean.  This saw won't be a daily use saw.  I still use my 192 whenever I can.  At 7 pounds, there's nothing better to me.


Pick up a MS150. Makes a 192 feel heavy.

My vote is the 70cc class.  Ms441/461 with a 28" and a 20" setup.  The 660 is going to be stupid heavy with a 20" bar and no faster than the 461 with the 20" bar.  You'd have to have all of a 30"+ bar buried all the time appreciate the 660's strong points.


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## JOHN BOY (Aug 12, 2013)

You can also look on e-bay and Craigslist There are still many good used saws out there  044/046  440/460  I wouldnt waste my money on a 660 unless it was dirt cheap
Dont get me wrong its one of the baddest saws made ,but the 044/046 440.460  will pull a 28 inch bar easily  I run a 20 inch bar on the 044 and it makes very quick work.


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## DexterDay (Aug 12, 2013)

Yep. The 460 or 461 would be my saw of choice. They are sexy..


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 12, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Yep. The 460 or 461 would be my saw of choice. They are sexy..
> View attachment 108420


 
The dogs on that saw look ferocious


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## TreePointer (Aug 13, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> The dogs on that saw look ferocious


 

Agreed.  I understand the saw loses 0.5 hp when you remove them.


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## smokinj (Aug 13, 2013)

No 150s around here yet.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 13, 2013)

I would not buy a 660 unless there was a deal.  And to cut 25" rounds i dont think i would get that size saw. You can cut them fine with a 70cc saw give or take.  You can also do it all with a 20" bar...everything you mentioned in your post and the sizes too. You can cut from both sides.  I have cut 40" rounds in half with my 20" stihl bar and my 390. this was before i modded the muffler and had a leaky decomp valve so it was a bit slow but doable. Once i put a new valve in that help, but i would just cut around it and from both sides then roll it to finish off the bottom cut.  It was taking almost a tank of fuel to cut 2 or just a bit more than 2 complete cuts.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 13, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Yep. The 460 or 461 would be my saw of choice. They are sexy..


 
Sexy saws You have been spending too much time on AS.


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## StihlHead (Aug 13, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Sexy saws You have been spending too much time on AS.


 
Anyone that has spent too much time on AS has likely been banned...

The big dawgs there are on the R model 440s, 441s, and 460s. The 3/4 wrap is nice, but it is missing the large side cover like my 044 has:


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## StihlHead (Aug 13, 2013)

Speaking of AS and sexy saws... this is Gary and his old hot saw, The Termite.



No no no, look at the SAW in the photo...

Yes, that is a 2 man, V8 Buick engine chainsaw there that Gary had at a logging show. Not the most practical saw, but it cuts really frick'in fast. I do not know who the babe is.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 13, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Anyone that has spent too much time on AS has likely been banned...
> 
> The big dawgs there are on the R model 440s, 441s, and 460s. The 3/4 wrap is nice, but it is missing the large side cover like my 044 has:
> 
> View attachment 108456


your bar is upside down!


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## StihlHead (Aug 13, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> your bar is upside down!


 
That's a special imported bar that I got from Australia.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 13, 2013)

I gotta say though after seeing the pics of DD's wood piles I'm a little shocked at the condition of his work bench.  I was expecting something more like this


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> 1) My 2 year old 440 runs the sh_t out of a 32" bar


 
not to split hairs, but a 440 in hardwoods will not run a 32" bar effectively, not to mention we don't get the High Output oilers the west coast saws have. That's apples to cucumbers comparison to oak and maple that we cut.  around here in hardwood country most loggers run a 20" on a 460 and a 24/25" on a 660, but most wont run a 660 all day long because of the weight.  a 440 in hardwoods in a 20-25" max saw.  Will it run a 28"-32? sure. will it be productive speed wise? probably not.  skip chain is also not common to these parts, which is just a band aid for a saw to run a larger bar than it is meant for.

before you get your panties ina bunch I put a 28" on my dolmar 5100 years ago for giggles and cut a 24" oak log.  Did it do it? sure it did.  It also took about 3 minutes to make one cut through it....


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## StihlHead (Aug 13, 2013)

Amusing, but you are wrong about skip chain. Shrimpy bar disease Midwesterners... spare us your ignorance and take your panties back to AS...


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## DexterDay (Aug 13, 2013)

Dolmar 5100 is a nice unit. Had one that was ported by Mastermind. I sent it to R.I. somewhere. I am not a fan of anything less than 60cc saws. 

Here is the lil Dolmar next to a real saw


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Yep. The 460 or 461 would be my saw of choice. They are sexy..
> View attachment 108420


 
When did you cross over to the darkside? how those xp's treating you? 22" maple and both of these saws were ported with 20" bars and off the reel round ground stihl RS chain. the 372 has a ton of work done to it.  I ran it in stock appearing race saw classes on nitro, so that's not really something that should be used in the woods all day long every day. That 360 will last forever. you can hear the snappiness and way more compression of the 372




a ported 036/360/361 or 362 will run right with a stock 371/372 044/046 with a 20" in hardwoods, but going to larger wood the 70cc saw will still have the advantage.


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Amusing, but you are wrong about skip chain. Shrimpy bar disease Midwesterners... spare us your ignorance and take your panties back to AS...


 

Haven't been on AS in years.. If I am so wrong about skip chain, show me one harvester that uses skip chain.  Maybe you should take your big bar envy back to AS.  I'll also add that skip chain is for lazy people that don't want to sharpen their chain.

They do have their place, just not on the east coast, Midwest or hardwood country.


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Dolmar 5100 is a nice unit. Had one that was ported by Mastermind. I sent it to R.I. somewhere. I am not a fan of anything less than 60cc saws.
> 
> Here is the lil Dolmar next to a real saw
> 
> View attachment 108463


 
Yeah I sold mine after running a 550xp... it runs just as hard as any 60ccsaw I've ever ran.. I'll get a 562xp someday and put a 13" bar on it because we don't need anything bigger in shimply bar land


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 13, 2013)

All this talk about shrimpy bars makes me want to sink my 16" bar into the red oak I have needing to be sawed to length.  My 290 and a 16" is ok.  A little slow, but it does work.  I would like to have a bigger one for the fun of it.

What is AS by the way?


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

arborist site... where all the internet saw geeks and know it alls go


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## TreePointer (Aug 13, 2013)

Go to AS chainsaw forum.  Start an oil discussion.  Make friends fast!    /jk


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## firecracker_77 (Aug 13, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> Go to AS chainsaw forum. Start an oil discussion. Make friends fast! /jk


 
As long as I have access to Hearth.com, I'm happy


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## clemsonfor (Aug 13, 2013)

I think the only thing I vver see in 3/8 chain is skip tooth. The stihl dealer does not even have any chain other than skip I. Bats over 20. He has full cutter safety chin in 20".


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> Go to AS chainsaw forum. Start an oil discussion. Make friends fast! /jk


 
Will Stihl oil kill my husky?  Can I use used motor oil as two stroke mix when I'm out?  I don't like using canola oil for bar oil, you can't see it on the bar so I use the red atf.  works great


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 13, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> Haven't been on AS in years..


And by "years" you really mean days?

http://www.arboristsite.com/search.php?searchid=2116046


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## BrotherBart (Aug 13, 2013)




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## Ashful (Aug 13, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I think the only thing I vver see in 3/8 chain is skip tooth. The stihl dealer does not even have any chain other than skip I. Bats over 20. He has full cutter safety chin in 20".


 
Opposite at my Stihl dealer.  They have racks of full comp chain, and only one spool of full chisel skip.  They actually look at you funny, as if you're from the left coast, if you ask them for skip chain.

<-- just bought three loops of skip to try, got the funny look.


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## DexterDay (Aug 13, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> When did you cross over to the darkside? how those xp's treating you? 22" maple and both of these saws were ported with 20" bars and off the reel round ground stihl RS chain. the 372 has a ton of work done to it.  I ran it in stock appearing race saw classes on nitro, so that's not really something that should be used in the woods all day long every day. That 360 will last forever. you can hear the snappiness and way more compression of the 372
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ever since you told me that I needed a MS 361, I started investigating why? With the Quad port design of the Husq's it makes the most snappy of the 36 series. And now I know 1st hand  

I used to own just Husqs. But then I got the 1st 036 Pro. Then, I got All Stihl, All the time!!..!! Then I read more on the 372xp, and also the 562xp. Just acquired the 2nd 372xp last week. Had a 12mm 044 Mag delivered today (also from AS). That thing is something special. My 460 is a runner. But there is something with that 044 that makes it rev so (read : SO) much faster and snappier!

Definitely want to pick your brain on Port work. I want to send the new 372 off to a builder, for a woods port. But if its something I can do with tools I already possess? Then I would be willing to sacrifice one of my 036 Pro's to learn. Either way, we need to hook up sometime. Either at your place or Boogs. Also, member Swagler would be a good candidate for a lil GTG


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## clemsonfor (Aug 13, 2013)

There selling loops at this dealer. Not making them onsite. I think k there more of a lawnmower (exmark) dealer but have a full line of stihl stuff though.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 13, 2013)

There supposedly is a big stihl dealer in augista that I want to go to. I want to see what they have.


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## Freakingstang (Aug 13, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Ever since you told me that I needed a MS 361, I started investigating why? With the Quad port design of the Husq's it makes the most snappy of the 36 series. And now I know 1st hand
> 
> I used to own just Husqs. But then I got the 1st 036 Pro. Then, I got All Stihl, All the time!!..!! Then I read more on the 372xp, and also the 562xp. Just acquired the 2nd 372xp last week. Had a 12mm 044 Mag delivered today (also from AS). That thing is something special. My 460 is a runner. But there is something with that 044 that makes it rev so (read : SO) much faster and snappier!
> 
> Definitely want to pick your brain on Port work. I want to send the new 372 off to a builder, for a woods port. But if its something I can do with tools I already possess? Then I would be willing to sacrifice one of my 036 Pro's to learn. Either way, we need to hook up sometime. Either at your place or Boogs. Also, member Swagler would be a good candidate for a lil GTG


 

036 to 372 is apples and cucumbers as far as port work goes. is your 61 ported? that's where they shine and why I told you to trade a 36 for a 61.. yes, it is a mini 372.....I have no issues helping you out, but let me tell you I've ruined 20-30 jugs over the years "learning"what works and what doesn't... its really easy to get carried away and remove too much material and make it a nice paperweight. too much exh timing shifts the power band up and up and narrows it significantly. Too much intake timing makes it chug fuel. too much transfer port timing and it either falls on its face or makes no power.

My 044 with an 046 topend was my favorite saw, although it got stolen out of the back of my truck..

Is either one of your 72's ported? Is either one an Xtorq? if so who did it. you ought to just drop it off some time this winter when I have the work bench cleaned up and I'll make it run for you. I need a lathe to do what I want to do with them.. The way I see it, I have two 72's. One rips screams and snorts with with a 20" if I remember it turns 15K in the wood. that's too much for a work saw. You'll beat the bearings out of it. The Xtorq I ported two years ago when they first came out, runs damn good (better than any 044/046 I've had) and has more grunt up top than the older 2. It wears a 25" stihl es bar. Those are the two basic saws I use. The old 372 gets used 90% of the time... The 660 only ever comes out when it is time for the mill or a 36" stump. The 084 is going to go bye bye as I haven't used it since the ground up (expensive) rebuild. The 550 gets used as a limbing saw. time to unload a bunch of my crap. I have tons of bars, chains (new and used) 044/046/066 and 371/372 parts as well.


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## DexterDay (Aug 13, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> 036 to 372 is apples and cucumbers as far as port work goes. is your 61 ported? that's where they shine and why I told you to trade a 36 for a 61.. yes, it is a mini 372.....I have no issues helping you out, but let me tell you I've ruined 20-30 jugs over the years "learning"what works and what doesn't... its really easy to get carried away and remove too much material and make it a nice paperweight. too much exh timing shifts the power band up and up and narrows it significantly. Too much intake timing makes it chug fuel. too much transfer port timing and it either falls on its face or makes no power.
> 
> My 044 with an 046 topend was my favorite saw, although it got stolen out of the back of my truck..
> 
> Is either one of your 72's ported? Is either one an Xtorq? if so who did it. you ought to just drop it off some time this winter when I have the work bench cleaned up and I'll make it run for you. I need a lathe to do what I want to do with them.. The way I see it, I have two 72's. One rips screams and snorts with with a 20" if I remember it turns 15K in the wood. that's too much for a work saw. You'll beat the bearings out of it. The Xtorq I ported two years ago when they first came out, runs damn good (better than any 044/046 I've had) and has more grunt up top than the older 2. It wears a 25" stihl es bar. Those are the two basic saws I use. The old 372 gets used 90% of the time... The 660 only ever comes out when it is time for the mill or a 36" stump. The 084 is going to go bye bye as I haven't used it since the ground up (expensive) rebuild. The 550 gets used as a limbing saw. time to unload a bunch of my crap. I have tons of bars, chains (new and used) 044/046/066 and 371/372 parts as well.



 I know the 036 wont hold a candle to the 372... But would like to learn. 

Both are X-Torq. But I have a line in a $200 non X-torq (75cc) (neither of them are ported... yet?!?)



Send me a PM with what your lookin to get out of the 084 amd what parts for the 044/440/046/460? As I have a need for some parts for both. 


Nice to see you back Stang. 

Sorry for the hi-jack.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 14, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> not to split hairs, but a 440 in hardwoods will not run a 32" bar effectively, not to mention we don't get the High Output oilers the west coast saws have. That's apples to cucumbers comparison to oak and maple that we cut. around here in hardwood country most loggers run a 20" on a 460 and a 24/25" on a 660, but most wont run a 660 all day long because of the weight. a 440 in hardwoods in a 20-25" max saw. Will it run a 28"-32? sure. will it be productive speed wise? probably not. skip chain is also not common to these parts, which is just a band aid for a saw to run a larger bar than it is meant for.
> 
> before you get your panties ina bunch I put a 28" on my dolmar 5100 years ago for giggles and cut a 24" oak log. Did it do it? sure it did. It also took about 3 minutes to make one cut through it....


 
Meh

1) Me and my bone stock MS440 with a hand filed skip tooth round bit chain will take the 32" bar in hardwoods Pepsi challenge, any time. 

2) Regardless, the OP is talking about cutting 30" logs which do not require a 32", a 30" or even a 28" chain.  There is no 30" log on this continent that I can't handily dispatch with a bone stock MS440 dressed in a 25" bar.  That log simply does not exist.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 14, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> Haven't been on AS in years.. If I am so wrong about skip chain, show me one harvester that uses skip chain. Maybe you should take your big bar envy back to AS. I'll also add that skip chain is for lazy people that don't want to sharpen their chain.
> 
> They do have their place, just not on the east coast, Midwest or hardwood country.


 
TRANSLATION: I have never used a skip tooth chain


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## Freakingstang (Aug 14, 2013)

Bigg_Redd said:


> There is no 30" log on this continent that I can't handily dispatch with a bone stock MS440 dressed in a 25" bar. That log simply does not exist.


 

at least we agree on something, and that might be the smartest thing that has come out of your keyboard on this thread.  Send me your address and i'll send you a couple loops or ten of skip chain. west coast "hardwood" is trash wood here that most of us wont even burn. when you understand the basics of fiber construction and the principles of how a chain really "cuts" you wouldn't be arguing.  That's fine, everyone has their opinions, but when someone calls someone ignorant and spouts off with an attitude about something they know nothing about, makes them look stupid at best. skip chain has a place, it is not here. It is not for anyone that cuts wood for firewood use. It is meant for long stranded stringy types of wood that will clog up the cutters of underpowered saws. This is not the case with any hardwood.  It is not a smooth cutting chain, especially in hardwood unless they are using a 55 rancher to cut 48" oak trees.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 14, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> at least we agree on something, and that might be the smartest thing that has come out of your keyboard on this thread. Send me your address and i'll send you a couple loops or ten of skip chain. west coast "hardwood" is trash wood here that most of us wont even burn. when you understand the basics of fiber construction and the principles of how a chain really "cuts" you wouldn't be arguing. That's fine, everyone has their opinions, but when someone calls someone ignorant and spouts off with an attitude about something they know nothing about, makes them look stupid at best. skip chain has a place, it is not here. It is not for anyone that cuts wood for firewood use. It is meant for long stranded stringy types of wood that will clog up the cutters of underpowered saws. This is not the case with any hardwood. It is not a smooth cutting chain, especially in hardwood unless they are using a 55 rancher to cut 48" oak trees.


 

Yeah. . . cuz there's no oak, Madrona, locust, or maple out here.  And I've never cut any of it all the time.  With a skip tooth chain.  For the last forever.


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## StihlHead (Aug 14, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> at least we agree on something, and that might be the smartest thing that has come out of your keyboard on this thread. Send me your address and i'll send you a couple loops or ten of skip chain. west coast "hardwood" is trash wood here that most of us wont even burn. when you understand the basics of fiber construction and the principles of how a chain really "cuts" you wouldn't be arguing. That's fine, everyone has their opinions, but when someone calls someone ignorant and spouts off with an attitude about something they know nothing about, makes them look stupid at best. skip chain has a place, it is not here. It is not for anyone that cuts wood for firewood use. It is meant for long stranded stringy types of wood that will clog up the cutters of underpowered saws. This is not the case with any hardwood. It is not a smooth cutting chain, especially in hardwood unless they are using a 55 rancher to cut 48" oak trees.


 
Buzzer sound: Eeeeeeehhhhhhhh

You are dead wrong (and hopelessly ignorant) about western hardwoods. You do not have a clue as to what types of trees we have here. I mean, really, you are telling us that most of you do not burn white oak? <blink blink> I can find 101 posts here by Midwesterners on Hearth to refute that claim. Oregon white oak is every bit as dense and hard as American white oak. Similar with California black oak. Pacific Madrone is denser and harder and burns even longer than oak or hickory. The 5 western live oak species will beat *ANY* species of hardwood that you have in the Midwest, for density and heat, period. Also as I posted elsewhere here recently, I found a grove of 100 year old black locust growing near me. They are trash trees for commercial logging purposes. If you are telling us that people out your way to not burn BL, you are on drugs, dude.

Your posts are contradictions to many known facts, from what saws are sold here in the west, what/why skip chain is used, to western wood species, to your statements that you do not post any more on arboristshyte, where you still seem to reside. As for cutting hardwoods, we have to cut down a lot of hardwood trash trees here with the conifers, typically madrone, oak, and bigleaf maple, as they tend to grow in the conifer stands. They are typically culled with the crappy fir, and around urban areas the hardwood logs are sold for firewood. In the more remote areas they are burned as slash. Alder is the high value hardwood money tree here (yes, we do actually harvest hardwoods in the west for firewood and for commercial use), and is best cut with skip in my experience. Alder is also a good firewood, and a great smoking wood.

But hey, keep digging yourself a bigger hole here on this thread. It is highly amusing.


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## lukem (Aug 14, 2013)

Sooooo....anyway.

Did you go feel up any saws at the Stihlership yet?


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## ScotO (Aug 14, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Either way, we need to hook up sometime. Either at your place or Boogs. Also, member Swagler would be a good candidate for a lil GTG


WTF??  I ain't all that far away that you clowns can't let me know when the HO-DOWN is......

Ohio isn't that far.....


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## ScotO (Aug 14, 2013)

On the issue of skip chain, I have it on my 42" bar in .404-.063 for using on my bigger saws (051/075's), no I don't race saws, yes I do tweak them a little (mild intake/exhaust port work, muffler mods, etc.).  I like the skipper chain, fast to sharpen and still gets the job done, but again, I ain't racing a clock in my backyard on a sawbuck either......I'm cutting to make some dough.

Stang, there is a lot more hardwood out west than you think, and I'm pretty sure most guys who log out there like the skipper chain.  Basically for the fact that it clears out faster when cutting and the biggie reason it's fast to sharpen...

C'mon guys, lets not get this threat chit-canned.....To the OP, get either a MS460, MS046, or 372XP and call it a day.......you'll love that saw (no it don't need a wild port job to impress you, either).


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## DexterDay (Aug 14, 2013)

An 044 (440) with a 32" Full comp...  Yeah, I just acquired one. 

I did just get the saw, but the bar is for my 460. Did it just for giggles after cleaning it up. This thing is very peppy though. I must say I am in love with it  I had thought about selling it, but now I am entertaining the thought of keeping it and selling the other 036 Pro?  

An 18" and an 8 pin rim, this things tears through the wood. But the 18" that came with it, will go on the 036. 

As much as some have hated on FreakinStang. My 036's generally wear 18" (60 cc) the 044 will wear a 20" (71 cc) the 460 has the 25" (76 cc). (We are talking Stihl here, so the Husqs will stay out) I have the 32" for a Big job. But since I bought it, I have not needed it. I needed it, a Lot, before I bought it though. 

Ordering Log Loads, I can request certain wood and certain sizes. I like to keep it 20"-12" in diameter. Small bar, high chain speed, an 8 pin, and chips flying  

I do understand the reasoning behind skip chain. I bought 3 loops when they were on sale. They did come from Wa though (FeeBay) No dealer around here carries it.


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## ScotO (Aug 14, 2013)

Go ahead and laugh guys, but I run a 28" bar on my ANCIENT Stihl 041AV Super (72cc) with a non skip chain and it drags that bar with ease, all day long, in any wood I throw at it.......I personally think a 25" bar would do fine on an 044.  I plan on doing a big bore kit on the 046 I just picked up, and I'll be throwing a 32" on that one.....for an "intermediate" intermediate saw.......

Lots of torque in the older saws, though.....is it fast as hell?  No.  But it gets the job done and sounds like a hopped up Yamaha YZ 125 with the dual port muff. I built for it....


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 14, 2013)

lukem said:


> *Sooooo....anyway.*
> 
> Did you go feel up any saws at the Stihlership yet?


 
STOP PRETENDING TO BE NEUTRAL!!


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## JOHN BOY (Aug 14, 2013)

Looks like the 044 has the dual port muffler on it ?  One of stihl best saws ever made you'll be happy with your purchase it will handle any firewood cutting needs you throw at it.


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## DexterDay (Aug 14, 2013)

JOHN BOY said:


> Looks like the 044 has the dual port muffler on it ?  One of stihl best saws ever made you'll be happy with your purchase it will handle any firewood cutting needs you throw at it.



I put the dual port on it. I have a Tri port on my 460. 

The 044, 460, and 372's are gonna be go to saws. The 70cc class has the power to run through most chit I come across and do it with "Greatness" 

Scotty - You know you are more than welcome!!


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## HittinSteel (Aug 15, 2013)

That saw sat in the AS classifieds for way to long Dex......you are lucky to have it.  I think I started at least 2 PM's to the seller saying I would take it, but resisted and aborted. Glad you got it


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## MasterMech (Aug 16, 2013)

Joful said:


> <-- just bought three loops of skip to try, got the funny look.​


 I have 3 loops of skip (33RSF-91, 28") that my dealer damn near gave me because they were collecting dust on his shelf.  Then again, most in these parts categorize their chain as "safety or aggressive".   I bought the skips, a loop of Klassic square ground and 2 loops of yellow-label semi-chisel (33RM-72) all in the same sitting and they hardley noticed a difference among them.  They think I'm "amusing".


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## clemsonfor (Aug 16, 2013)

Well when sharpening my chains a few days ago. I looked and am running full comp chisel chain on all the loops I have, even the original stihl that came on my saw 8 yrs ago. So now I have a 20" loops of skip to take back as my saw easily pulls the full comp 20"??  No idea who these guys are selling chains and saws too. I first told them I wanted full chisel chain the yellow one or whatever. I get a green safety chain?? I said what is the double taker think,  luke I didn't know,  they said that's safety chain????  What I said I don't want safety chain???


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