# Quadra Fire pellet stove nuisance shut downs



## DMKNLD (Feb 12, 2010)

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I'm new to this forum, which looks like a great forum for pellet stove owners to trouble shoot problems. I have a 1st generation Castille stove - a 2001 model I believe - that first began to have intermittent shut down problems after the initial pellet ignition, and now it happens at every start up. The thermostat kicks on and the ignitor fires the initial pellet dump w/ no probs, but it won't reach the 200 degree temp necessary to turn the green light on on my control box (older model gray non-opaque style box). If I preload an extra hand full of pellets before the thermostat kicks on and dumps the usual feed of pellet, or if I hit the reset button as the flames begin to die down, then there is enough flame to reach the 200 degree temp that turns on the green control box light, and then the auger cycle feeds as normal. It feeds and burns fine until the thermostat kicks it off, and then the problem repeats again at the next start-up.

I know many pellet probs are cleaning related, so I cleaned the flue, heat exchanger, vacuum hose and nipple, the auger feed and hopper, and the igniter opening w/ no resolution to my start up probs. I've narrowed it down to either the thermocouple or my control box going bad, both of which are original parts on this stove. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks for any advice anyone can offer me.


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## hossthehermit (Feb 12, 2010)

Let me be the first to welcome you aboard, bunch of Quad owners on here, they'll have you up and runnin' in no time


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 12, 2010)

Welcome DMKNLD hoss is correct about the quad burners on here, I'll add a couple of things to consider while waiting. 

Is there any buildup on the thermocouple and does it remain in position.

My proof of fire system is different than yours, however if the area my sensor is in gets a lot of ash build up it may never see a fire going when there is one.


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## jtakeman (Feb 13, 2010)

Welcome DMKNLD, Good group of people here always willing to help. 

I had similar issue's with my quad. I found the feed control in the hopper was the issue. If I tried to run it at to low a feedrate it would give me some startup issue's. I pulled it out some more and it would light much better.

Does the Castille have the fuel adjustment in the hopper? Try it with more fuel feed if it does.

One other thing to try is the ceramic tube(thermocoupler cover?) that goes over the thermocoupler. I wire brushed the inside to get the gummies out of it. It may not be getting good transfer to the thermocoupler. 

Just some thoughts.
jay


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## DMKNLD (Feb 13, 2010)

Thank you for the warm welcome to this forum, and for your prompt replies. Jay, yes I did increase the hopper feed rate to the max setting thinking that might increase the flame intensity and temp, but no change. I sandpapered the outside of the ceramic thermocouple cover to clean it up a bit, and made sure it was well seated against the thermocouple, but I'll try scraping the inside as well. I'd rather not dump $370 for a new control box if I don't need it, so I may try replacing the thermocouple if cleaning doesn't fix it. Thanks again for your suggestions.


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## coobie (Feb 13, 2010)

DMKNLD said:
			
		

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I'm new to this forum, which looks like a great forum for pellet stove owners to trouble shoot problems. I have a 1st generation Castille stove - a 2001 model I believe - that first began to have intermittent shut down problems after the initial pellet ignition, and now it happens at every start up. The thermostat kicks on and the ignitor fires the initial pellet dump w/ no probs, but it won't reach the 200 degree temp necessary to turn the green light on on my control box (older model gray non-opaque style box). If I preload an extra hand full of pellets before the thermostat kicks on and dumps the usual feed of pellet, or if I hit the reset button as the flames begin to die down, then there is enough flame to reach the 200 degree temp that turns on the green control box light, and then the auger cycle feeds as normal. It feeds and burns fine until the thermostat kicks it off, and then the problem repeats again at the next start-up.
> 
> I know many pellet probs are cleaning related, so I cleaned the flue, heat exchanger, vacuum hose and nipple, the auger feed and hopper, and the igniter opening w/ no resolution to my start up probs. I've narrowed it down to either the thermocouple or my control box going bad, both of which are original parts on this stove. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks for any advice anyone can offer me.


I had a feed problem with my quadrafire classic bay stove.Had a service tech come out and change the wall thermostat it has cured the problem.coobie


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## Snowy Rivers (Feb 13, 2010)

All good info here.

I have a Quad along with two Whitfield manual lighters.

The Thermocouple is critical to the thing lighting for sure.

As was mentioned, yank the little gate on the auger open a tad more and the issue may well be fixed.

I have never had any issues with startup, my quad tends to dump a little too much fuel to my likeing and the fire will burn almost to the heat exchanger at times instead of the 4" above the Pot as stated in the manual.


Snowy


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 13, 2010)

I have the occasional 'no starts' on my stoves too.  The Castile is about once a week and the Sante Fe is once a month, maybe .  Never has it happened during the day when I could possibly see what is happening.  Always at night so I have no idea what causes it for sure.  I know that I've had some auger jams right at the chute that I've caught as the culprit but usually the wife pushes the reset and then it will run without any changes.  Very frustrating.  If you do a search, you'll find there are many complaints about this on here and iburncorn.com.  Can't comprehend how a thermostat would cause the problem unless it is turning the call light on and off at start up.  I have different thermostats on my two so that rules them out anyway.  You've already done what most will tell you and that is to push the thermocouple in against the ceramic tip.  Also, if the ceramic piece is not far enough out into the flame or tilted up out of the firepot, it could cause a problem.  
Since you are seeing the green light come on when you have a good fire going, I wouldn't think it was the control box.  The green light tells it to start feeding.  Do you see a drop every 7 seconds?  I am just about through a load of very long pellets (3" or more!) that I can hear the auger breaking up occasionally.  That is what I think is messing me up so I live with it for now.  
Are you keeping the little holes as well as the big ones cleaned out?  There are 4 little ones in the sloped section and 2 more on either side of the ignition slot.  Also, are you brushing out the ignition slot?  I use a .32 caliber bore brush.  
Pull out your ash pan and look at the trap door while you push down on the trap door from inside the firepot.  Does it move down and you see a gap on the right side?  that gap should be no more than the width of a dime.  If it's more, tighten up on the 1/2 bolts that hold the door.  
Have you changed the door gasket since you've had it?  Losing vacuum there will kill airflow through the firepot as well as make the vacuum switch perhaps drop out and stop the feed.
Finally, have you blown out the vacuum tube coming from the vacuum switch to the top of the auger tube?  Take it off of the vacuum switch and using compressed air in a can, blow through it.  That clears the tube and the opening at the top of the auger tube.  Mine already got filled with fly ash.
Finally, finally, is your igniter tightly fastened to its holder.  Mine had the wing nut loose and it was hanging down away from the slot once.


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## DMKNLD (Feb 13, 2010)

Great suggestions from folks - clearly I cybered to the right place. Yes, I clean all the air feed openings w/ a wire coat hanger when I do my daily firepot cleaning. My local pellet stove tech guy also suggested that I clean the igniter opening, which I did. My thermocouple angles up a bit into the firepot opening - and extends in about an inch - should the thermocouple be more at a 90 degree angle to get it closer to the flame source?


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 13, 2010)

My ceramic piece sticks straight out.  They are very fragile!  I read in one of the past posts that it should not be sticking up.  1" is what they recommend so you're OK there.  Did you check the trap door?  How about the door gasket?  Or the vacuum tubing?  )  So many things it could be.  Life was simple when all we did was throw a few more logs on.  Except for the rain wetting the wood, hauling it, splitting it, stacking it, hauling it to the house, worrying about termites, fighting bugs and the constant dirt and hauling ashes.  I guess I can put up with some aggravation like a shut down once in a while but yours is every time so we have to find the solution.


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## Mr Whitfield (Feb 13, 2010)

Check the pressure switch, I had to replace one on a stove that was doing the same thing. This stove was 4 year old used very little in Northern California.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 13, 2010)

It's actually a vacuum switch, but you're right.  It could be going south.  Think of how many times those contacts have opened and closed over the years!  They could be intermittent.  Pretty cheap way to eliminate the cause anyway.


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## Bkins (Feb 13, 2010)

Have you changed your pellet brand recently?  Before I put in any parts I would try a different pellet.  Different pellets burn hotter and will allow your stove to reach 200 degrees at a quicker rate.  Even the same brand pellets could have a different pellet composition depending on where their raw materials came from.  It is a cheap way to eliminate a possible problem.  You can override the vacuume switch to see if its the problem.  Most thermocouples either work or they don't.  A build up of crud would effect it.

Bkins


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## DMKNLD (Feb 14, 2010)

An update here, with still no resolution to my problem. Went to my local pellet stove Quad dealer (Don's Stove Shop in Livermore, for you Mainas on this forum, who was very helpful), and Don thought it was the thermocouple going bad, which my original one was definitely cracked and coroded when I took it out. He also let me try a new vacuum switch just in case it was vacuum related, but alas with both these new parts it still won't get to 200 degrees to activate the green light to continue pellet feeding after the original firing. I put a new stove door gasket in at the beginnning of this burn season, (my older model Castille has the air wash gap on the top of the door), I burn ultra premium Okanagan softwood pellets exclusively, I cleaned the inside and the outside of the ceramic TC cover and made sure it is well seated, and I blew out the vacuum hose into the auger chamber w/ compressed air. I re-cleaned the heat exchanger today as well, and just did the flue and exhaust system cleaning last week, so I don't think it's an issue of needed cleaning. I do notice that the exhaust blower has a metallic noise some times during start - up. It did this occassionally last year with none of these problems resulting though. But could my exhaust bearings possibly be going bad thus affecting the draft out of the fire pot? I'm at a loss, and feel like I'm throwing parts at the problem w/out allot of success, obviously. I have the old style gray control box, which doesn't have the screw adjustment to increase the pellet dump, so maybe I'll have to suck it up and drop 3 1/2 Benjamin's to get an updated control box.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 14, 2010)

Damn, you've about done it all!  When you installed the thermocouple, are you sure it is ALL THE WAY into the ceramic piece and touching the front?  Beyond that, ?????.  you know the box is reading enough milliamps to turn on the green light if you really load up the pot so that circuit is ok, I believe.  I've read about quite a few people who didn't have the thermocouple all the way against the ceramic and couldn't reach 200 degrees.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 14, 2010)

Does that burn pot sit on a gasket if so is it good, are the holes in the burn pot clear, and is the air chamber under the burn pot clean. 

Any of these might lead to less than a lively and hot startup fire.


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## DMKNLD (Feb 14, 2010)

I replaced the burn pot gasket at the beginning of this heating season, and I clean out all the air holes w/ a coat hanger hook when I do my daily firepot cleaning. The firepot trap door is snug w/ no extra play in the hinge assembly that would otherwise change the airflow characteristics. It just doesn't seem like it has a real aggressive flame when it starts up on the inital pellet dump - until I hit the reset button and it dumps another handfull of pellets into the embers left after the original firing, then it flames well above the firepot rim. Same thing if I put some extra pellets in before the original dump of pellets - it flames and kicks the green light on w/ no probs. My ultra premium pine / spuce mix pellets are kept under cover in my garage, so I don't think it's a problem w/ damp pellets affecting the burn rate. I have the older style ceramic fire pot that I may take out and look at closely for any hairline cracks that might be disrupting the airflow.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 14, 2010)

How about the igniter?  Does it glow really cherry red?  Is it lined up with the slot in the fire pot and close to it?  How old is it?  Maybe checking plugs for it for corrosion?  By the time you find the little thing that is causing the problem, you're going to be an expert   :cheese:


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## DMKNLD (Feb 14, 2010)

I do have a new igniter that I forgot I have from the folks who put in the Quad stove before we bought the farmhouse from them - I'll replace that and let you know what happens !!


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 14, 2010)

DMKNLD said:
			
		

> I do have a new igniter that I forgot I have from the folks who put in the Quad stove before we bought the farmhouse from them - I'll replace that and let you know what happens !!



That may be the ticket.  Just get it close to the slot in the firepot.  Here's hoping


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## DMKNLD (Feb 14, 2010)

Bummer, still won't hit 200 degrees at initial start up despite the new igniter and new TC in place. It seems that the reset button dumps a good bit more pellets into the fire pot than the normal start-up dump of pellets after the thermostat kicks it on, which is probably why it will fire normally after I hit the reset button or pre-load some extra pellets. Which takes me back to the control box again, which I'm guessing controls that initial auger feed. It's about all that's left for parts to throw at this problem. I'm going to try to find somoene else w/ a Castile to try my control box in to see if the problem replicates in a different stove. Thanks for all the suggestions though, folks have been the most cordial of any forum group I've visited.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 15, 2010)

You might want to check the connections at the control box where the thermocouple leads go.  

If the connections aren't tight it may not be seeing the correct resistance, current, or voltage value until the temperature is above what it really needs to see (200).


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 15, 2010)

DMKNLD said:
			
		

> Bummer, still won't hit 200 degrees at initial start up despite the new igniter and new TC in place. It seems that the reset button dumps a good bit more pellets into the fire pot than the normal start-up dump of pellets after the thermostat kicks it on, which is probably why it will fire normally after I hit the reset button or pre-load some extra pellets. Which takes me back to the control box again, which I'm guessing controls that initial auger feed. It's about all that's left for parts to throw at this problem. I'm going to try to find somoene else w/ a Castile to try my control box in to see if the problem replicates in a different stove. Thanks for all the suggestions though, folks have been the most cordial of any forum group I've visited.



Well, that sucks!  Are you sure there is no adjusting Pot/knob on the control box that would allow you to change the initial dump time?  Is the part number 230-1845?  I see that one has some pins with a jumper on them.  Sel 0,1,2, and Diagnostic.  I don't know if that gives you three different dumps.  Maybe someone else can answer.  Is Kap following this thread by any chance?  He's over on iburncorn.com and sometimes come over here.


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## DMKNLD (Feb 15, 2010)

My control box part # is 230-1844, and yes it does have a plastic connector on the bottom w/ a yellow jumper wire connecting pins #4 and #5 , but nothing in the IOM manual about whether those can be changed to adjust the feed rate. I'll check tomorrow w/ my Quad dealer. It doesn't look like there is any access to the end of the wiring loom connections at the control box end without taking off the hopper / stove top. The whole box is pop rivetted together on all sides.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 15, 2010)

I have a shop manual for the Castile and it shows the 1845 control box with the jumpers that I mentioned, but I have a feeling that they are INSIDE the box because it also shows the little fuse, which I know is inside.  Open the box and check and then ask Quad.  Make sure the stove is UNPLUGGED before removing or replacing the box or you will blow it out.


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## DMKNLD (Feb 15, 2010)

Don Oakes, my local Central Maine Quad dealer of Don's Stove Shop called me up after he had read my posts and he let me bring my control box in to try on his demo Castile, which wouldn't reproduce the problem on start up w/ his stove, but he let me try a new control box to take home and put in my stove and, rejoice, it fired and started re-feeding the first time. I'll let it do a few shut downs and cold starts to make sure the problem is fixed, but it looks like it was indeed the box going bad. Don had never seen that type of early generation control box before, but he is going to tweak w/ it to see if what looks like component setting adjustments inside the box can adjust the pellet feed as the newer boxes do. You can't beat that kind of dealer service - thanks Don if you read this before I get back to you!!


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 16, 2010)

Sounds like a helluva good dealer!  Does he want to move to Georgia??  I bet those jumper settings inside are for feed rate.  I just don't bet very much......................    
Anyway, glad to hear you are up and running.


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## smalltown (Feb 16, 2010)

DMKNLD I don't know where Don's store is located in Maine, but hats off to Don that's a great dealer!!


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## DMKNLD (Feb 16, 2010)

Don's Stove Shop is in Livermore ME, between Auburn and Farmington just off Rt 4. Don spent several hours w/ me on this issue. When he said "We'll get this running right for you" he obviously wasn't just, excuse the pun, 'blowing dealer smoke'. Though I inherited the stove from our prior farmhouse owner, I'll buy my next pellet stove upgrade from him when you get such good dealer service - certainly not the norm anymore as it used to be in the retail biz. My stove's had 3 shut - down / cold restarts cycles now w/ no problems - starts up better than ever. What $ I put into a new box will certainly cost less than the extra fuel oil I'd burn by the end of the winter, and I'll gladly pay Don for his good service than Dead River Oil Co profiteers any day!! Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions from this forum - I learned allot!!


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