# Old Englander stove secondary modification?



## BobUrban (Nov 27, 2012)

*OK many of you know I am burning a new 30nc and love it so I found a good deal(I believe) on CL yesterday and bought another Englander stove.  My friend and I bought an 18-TR with about 16' of class A, a cap, and through roof chimney parts in boxes - never used or fired to heat the steel fab shop where he works and we forge our knives, fireplace tool, ect...  Many of you have seen the stuff we create on Hearth.  Our goal is not like that of home heat but rather quick, hot fires that will be out(or close to it) before shutting down at night and someone will be there all day if it is buring to feed and tend to the fire.  A steel fab shop at about 50-60 degrees is perfect working conditions for a welder.  *

*OK - my questions are as follows:*

*1. is there anywhere I can get a cut out view of a modern secondary stove showing primary/secondary air and how this is chaneled to the burn tubes and the stove damper system?  A link would be awesome - does not need to be an Englander stove - just the engineering is what I am after.*

*2. This stove 18-TR seems to be what I would call transitional technology for lack of a better term regarding secondary burn and EPA stuff.  It looks to get primary air only through the front hole under the ash lip that runs up either side of the door and into the stove at the top.  There is zero air control at the stove itself and came with a cast flue damper.  Inside the stove at the top there is a steel baffle that diverts the air flow to the front of the stove and it looks to be designed to get the air swirling inside before it flows out the pipe and is fire brick lined.*

*My thoughts are to burn this stove "as is" this season and get a feel for what it is capable of and then possibly modding it to have an air control at the stove(similar to the NC-30) with secondary burn tubes and baffle boards.  A cut out view of the technology would help.*

*Before anyone panics and thinks I am off my rocker this is in a custom steel fab shop and would not be done on the willy nilly - safety would be paramount.  My goal would be to burn cleaner and safer regarding the now, stove pipe damper only technology.  With kaowool, ceramic boards, unlimited steel including stainless tubing and everything steel fabrication related available and on hand we could ecentially do the mods for free(sans labor)  Anything done would easily be removed and put back to original if the plan fails to produce better/safer burns.  *

*Any mods would be tested and this stove sits on a cement floor of a steel fab shop where there is more open flames going all day than most are comfortable with(torches, welders, forges, etc...)  This is not a stove heating someones home so no need to worry about that part of safety.  I am mostly just into the process and think I can make this little stove a little better and safer regarding the amount of heat and creo going up the chimney.  *

*Thoughts and anyones input that has made this type of mod please give me feedback.  A cut out diagram is what I am looking for mostly.  Thanks*

*This will not take place until at least spring and only if we decide mods could/would improve the stove.*

*Thanks - Bob Urban  and yes - if this takes place I will post pics to make sure it is "real" *


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## PapaDave (Nov 27, 2012)

Bob, there have been at least a couple guys on here who've put 2ndary air into older stoves. I'll keep searching for a link.

ETA:http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/CatRetrofit/CatRetrofit.htm


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## begreen (Nov 27, 2012)

Moving this post to the classics forum where there have been several mods performed on older stoves to improve burn performance.

Here is a thread by mod Pen to get you started.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...er-stove-updated-with-2ndary-burn-idea.28006/


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## Woody Stover (Nov 28, 2012)

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/67238/


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## TX-L (Nov 28, 2012)

Bob,
I performed one of the retrofits and documented it here:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/bullard-secondary-air-retrofit-project-complete.55033/
It works better than before.  I picked up an older Lopi 520 that I'm going to retrofit with the bypass, brackets, firebrick baffle, and burn tubes of a Lopi Liberty.  This one has glass doors so I'll be able to watch the light show, unlike the old Bullard.  When I do it I'll document that one with pictures and share here as well.

Good luck with your project.


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