# insurance help....no ul on stove



## katehagerartist (Feb 9, 2016)

We just bought a house and love our stove, it was designed and built by a fireman. EVERY insurance company we've asked won't insure the house, they say it's home made and therefore unsafe... help


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## bholler (Feb 9, 2016)

katehagerartist said:


> We just bought a house and love our stove, it was designed and built by a fireman. EVERY insurance company we've asked won't insure the house, they say it's home made and therefore unsafe... help


Try more insurance companies.  Some simply will not write a policy for a house with an unlisted stove.  But there are lots that will as long as it is installed to code for an unlisted appliance.   But just because the builder was a fireman does not mean he knew anything about stove design


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## jetsam (Feb 9, 2016)

I would also consider a new stove.

The best fireman in the world is probably not as good a stove engineer as an engineer who works full time designing stoves for a major stove company.

I apologize if I'm wrong, as I know nothing about your stove, but I would venture to guess that you might see better performance out of a nice new catalytic model.

That said, you can probably get it insured, but you may wind up having to reinstall it to get a 36" clearance to combustibles (check your local codes to see of that's true for you or not).


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## Babaganoosh (Feb 9, 2016)

I'd get a new stove.

Take a pic  of the one you have though


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## fespo (Feb 9, 2016)

Is it really worth that much to you if the insurance company say NO !


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## katehagerartist (Feb 10, 2016)

bholler said:


> Try more insurance companies.  Some simply will not write a policy for a house with an unlisted stove.  But there are lots that will as long as it is installed to code for an unlisted appliance.   But just because the builder was a fireman does not mean he knew anything about stove design


Every insurance carrier that has been to the house has remarked how well built it is. How well constructed...they'd like something like that in their own homes, but it doesn't have a tag...or a UL listing. You can however with a full fire inside of it put crayons on top of the stove...and they don't melt.


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## DougA (Feb 10, 2016)

katehagerartist said:


> You can however with a full fire inside of it put crayons on top of the stove...and they don't melt.



From the Crayola site:
 Crayola Crayons begin to soften at *around 105 degrees Fahrenheit* and they have a melting point between 120-147 degrees Fahrenheit.

It would seem that either your crayons are made of something other than wax or your stove is incredibly useless. In either case, your insurance company is clearly telling you that they think your wood stove is too dangerous to insure.


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## katehagerartist (Feb 10, 2016)

DougA said:


> From the Crayola site:
> Crayola Crayons begin to soften at *around 105 degrees Fahrenheit* and they have a melting point between 120-147 degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
> It would seem that either your crayons are made of something other than wax or your stove is incredibly useless. In either case, your insurance company is clearly telling you that they think your wood stove is too dangerous to insure.


Actually that's just how insulated it is...thank you much, the water stays 160 degrees, house alway toasty warm and it only has to be filled twice a day. With the cost of propane in a not well insulated house...yup it is worth searching for one that will insure it. This forum doesn't seem to be much help though, I was hoping for some insurance companies...that did... insure stoves out of this not to be told it must be worthless cause an insurance company said so. think this the end of my venture to try and connect with people here


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## bholler (Feb 10, 2016)

katehagerartist said:


> This forum doesn't seem to be much help though, I was hoping for some insurance companies...that did... insure stoves out of this not to be told it must be worthless cause an insurance company said so.


I never said it was worthless but i cant tell you which insurance company in Michigan will be ok with it their standards vary from area to area so ones that allow unlisted stoves here may not there.  And by the way when given no info about a homemade stove or its install many will assume the worst.   The comment about it being worthless because it doesn't melt crayons was mainly due to the fact that you referred to it as a stove not a furnace or boiler.  And stove that is insulated that well would be worthless as a heater because it would not be giving off any heat.  But a boiler is a different story.  Instead of getting offended and defensive why not give us some info about your setup or some pics and we may be able to help you.   What did the insurance companies say specifically?  Was it just the stove or the install also.


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## saskwoodburner (Feb 10, 2016)

Not insurable due to no tag, or due to clearance? I thought older stoves, or non listed needed to meet very generous clearances (36 or 48 inches!) from walls etc.


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## DougA (Feb 10, 2016)

saskwoodburner said:


> Not insurable due to no tag, or due to clearance? I thought older stoves, or non listed needed to meet very generous clearances (36 or 48 inches!) from walls etc.


My guess is both. There is no tag at all since it is homemade, not sure about clearances. Obviously we're only getting part of the story as it sounds like there is a water jacket on it too. 
What the OP fails to understand is that a good insurance company (at least in our area) looks at the entire installation and there may be other serious problems in the pipe/chimney we have not been told about.


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## vasten (Feb 10, 2016)

simple suggestion.. did you contact the seller of the house to see who they used to insure the house with prior?  



katehagerartist said:


> You can however with a full fire inside of it put crayons on top of the stove...and they don't melt.





katehagerartist said:


> Actually that's just how insulated it is...thank you much, the water stays 160 degrees, house alway toasty warm and it only has to be filled twice a day.



To clarify wood stoves are measured by stove top and flue temps.  Average surface temps for a wood stove would be between 300 on the low side and 650 on the high side.  With flue temps of 250-450.  If you can put a box of crayons on top of the wood stove and they wont melt because it is not getting hot enough, then there is something seriously wrong.  It would have nothing to do with the insulation of the stove because wood stoves are not insulated.  

Is it possible that you have a homemade wood boiler, instead of a wood stove?   as it seems you may be describing, if it is then I agree that insurance companies will be hard to find, as boiling water and steam can be very explosive if not installed correctly.  And insurance companies do not have engineers on staff to evaluate your install to see if it safe.  That is why they need to UL tags to ensure that it was properly tested for all of the required safety regulations. 

Unfortunately we are people just as you are that enjoy our wood heaters and help people out as best we can, but we are not insurance companies or sales people.  And do not know all the insurance requirements of every company in each state.

My best advice would be to contact the prior owner find out what insurance company he used, and if they wont insure it after inspecting it, then that should shed some light on your situation.  I understand how frustrating it can be, when the bank tells you, you need insurance but cant get it because of the heater, and you may not have the means to put in a whole new boiler system.


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## Anradhn39 (Feb 14, 2016)

A home built stove has no benchmark for exiting flue gases, therefore the likelihood of a chimney fire would be the more probable issue an insurance company may have regarding the stove.
The actual stove temps may not be the only issue. 

Regardless, it's easier for them to say no than to bother with the "whys" or reasoning, this is why the UL or ETL label is so important, is that it's been tested in "over fire" conditions, for failures, and the emissions factor feeds into the potential for chimney fire more so the pollution factor.


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