# LT tires...I was told a shortage is comming



## Ratherbfishin (Mar 17, 2011)

I finally decided on a tire for my truck, I was going to go with the General Grabber AT2. 265/70/17. But.... they have been on national back order for 4 months,And I was told at least 2 more months (for the 4 ply) Can't get them anywhere including online. 2 different tire dealers told me within the next 2 months all tires will be in limited supply. I don't know if it is a production issue or a rubber shortage but that it what I was told. I can however get the tires in 10 ply. I have a 1500 Silverado crew cab. They tell me just to run them at a lower pressure and there will be not much difference than the 4 ply. Anyone agree or disagree? What tires have you really been impressed with? I go with a more aggressive tread like BFG AT type. My last set was trail mark M/S and they lasted very well but I don't need to go quite as aggressive as they were.

Steve


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## mayhem (Mar 17, 2011)

4 ply tires?  Isn't that more of a passenger car tire and nto LT?  I thought LT was minimum 6 ply load range C?  

Haven't heard of any shortages myself, but I bought tires last fall and have no need now.  It could be related to oil shortages maybe due to the Libyan revolution.  Seems to be plenty of 10 ply tires available in the AT2's, tirerack also has all Firestone AT tires available so it might just be a General Tire issue, not an industry issue.

If you really want the Grabbers and your tires aren't bald then I guess order them from your dealer of choise and wait it out, if your current tires are bald then you mgiht have to find another tire.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 17, 2011)

Bit curious as to why you wouldn't want a thicker ply tire . . . other than due to the possible ride. I've always preferrred tires with more plys in them.

I did a search at my favorite on-line store and saw two different AT 2 tires . . . one was back ordered and the other is special order . . . 

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/tires/general/size/bySize.do?cs=265&ar=70&rd=17

As to alternatives . . . the BF Goodrich ATs I had on my 4Runner wore and handled pretty decently . . . my only issue was the 4Runner's wheels tended to throw off the normal clipped weights so I had to go with glued on weights.


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## gpcollen1 (Mar 17, 2011)

Those heavy duty tires definitely make a difference in your ride - that it why they recommended lowering the PSI to about where your LT tires were.  i would not do that.  There is a reason why there is a PSi range recommendation for various tires.

Have you taken a look at tirerack?  At least you can see what other tires are available in what load ranges and make a decision based on some reviews.  I was going to recommend Toyos as they have done me exceptionally well.  The Yokohama Geolanders have a great reputation but are expensive.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=265/&ratio=70&diameter=17&x=43&y=5

PS - Load Range C = 6 ply tire...and those general Grabber are available in the size for my 4runner - 265-75-16.  Maybe you have an oddball sized tire - or a very popular one?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=55


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## Jags (Mar 17, 2011)

Don't do the 10 ply on a half ton truck.  Trust me, I have been running those bastages for about 75,000 miles and they still have 5/8" tread left to wear off.  Rough riding and crappy traction to boot (hard compound).  Unless you are constantly hauling heavy loads or big tongue weight from a large trailer, stick with the LT tires.  The ones on my truck would be at home on a F450, not on a half ton.

Just one dudes opinion.


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## gpcollen1 (Mar 17, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> Don't do the 10 ply on a half ton truck.  Trust me, I have been running those bastages for about 75,000 miles and they still have 5/8" tread left to wear off.  Rough riding and crappy traction to boot (hard compound).  Unless you are constantly hauling heavy loads or big tongue weight from a large trailer, stick with the LT tires.  The ones on my truck would be at home on a F450, not on a half ton.
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> Just one dudes opinion.



You are spot on.  D load should be the max he gets.  E load is out of the question, which is what you have I think.  I have the Toyo ATs, C load.  I keep the rears at 42# and the fronts at 40# after some playing around.  That is where I get the best ride, fuel efficiency and tire wear.  I am just pushing 65-70k on these tires and will need new ones this year.


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## mecreature (Mar 17, 2011)

Michelin LTX MS Load Range E on my 1500 Silverado. I have ran them from around 40 psi up to 60 psi when pulling a trailer. 

I dont want to push them up in pressure more then that with my stock tires.

they are rough at 60 psi and spongy a bit at 40,,,could be other factors also. 

but on the other hand I have 75000 miles on these babies... never need air and can take a beating.

YMMV


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## Ratherbfishin (Mar 18, 2011)

Ya ,I have been all through tire rack and discount tire direct. That's kinda how I reached a decision on the AT2's. reading reviews,enlarged pics etc..I have considered the Geolander, and Toyo's When I sleep my truck has a 4'' lift and Mickey Thompson Baja's on it but I eventually wake up. I do haul a 19ft boat but that isn't heavy enough to support a E class tire IMO. I was always under the impression the 10 ply's were for 3/4 ton and up. (to answer FF Jake's question). I like the AT2 reviews, and they are Generals version of the BFG's but at about 70 bucks a tire cheaper.  Jags are you saying you run the 10 ply  AT2's on a half ton? If so 75K mikes and still going is awesome. My truck has about 72k miles on it and this will be the 3rd set of tires. The stock Bridgestone's sucked they didn't last 20k. 

Like I said in the post topic seriously I have been told by 2 different large dealers there will be a tire shortage within a few months. They both stated "all" tires so I don't think they just meant truck tires..But whatever I'll be getting something put on before then. 

My tires now have seen every mile they had and I'm on borrowed miles with them now. Pretty bald in the back. They have lasted way longer than I expected. 

Totally off the subject here but I cooked a nice big corned beef boiled dinner for ST.Patty's day and added 2 cans of Guinness and so never trying it before I took a big tug off the first can and gotta say that was about the worst taste I have ever had in my mouth before..truly an acquired taste. But man the dinner came out amazing. Didn't taste like beer at all. I'm a fan of brazing with the stuff now. 

Enjoy your ST Patrick's day!!  

Steve


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

ratherbfishin said:
			
		

> Jags are you saying you run the 10 ply  AT2's on a half ton?



Naaa...I'm saying that I run 10 ply E rated tires.  I couldn't even tell you what the brand/model is.

Too much tire for the truck, and its an extended cab 4x4 half ton dodge, and those dang things are heavy when empty.


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## mecreature (Mar 18, 2011)

I agree with Jags. too much tire for a 1500.. 

I pull a travel trailer through the summer and run right at max weight sometimes. 
In my situation I would get the Load Range E tires again.


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## joecool85 (Mar 18, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> Don't do the 10 ply on a half ton truck.  Trust me, I have been running those bastages for about 75,000 miles and they still have 5/8" tread left to wear off.  Rough riding and crappy traction to boot (hard compound).  Unless you are constantly hauling heavy loads or big tongue weight from a large trailer, stick with the LT tires.  The ones on my truck would be at home on a F450, not on a half ton.
> 
> Just one dudes opinion.



I have to respectfully disagree.  I am running 10 ply tires on my Ford Ranger and love it.  They are 245/75/16 Cordovan Wild Trac LTR-II tires.  Yeah, it's a little firm but not bad.  Traction is excellent and so far wear is great.  I had 4 ply Mastercraft Courser AT/2s before, liked them as well but got a better deal on these.

http://cordovantires.com/tires/Detail.aspx?lineid=249&application=SUV-LT


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

joecool85 said:
			
		

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If you put the tires from my truck onto your ranger, you wouldn't even need to pump them up.  They would stand on their own side walls.  With a 6000 pound truck, I run 30 psi in them, otherwise I don't have the weight to keep a flat foot print and they will wear in the center.  Just sayin' the tires that I have are too stiff for any typical LT use.  I can't imagine why you would want an E rated tire on a ranger.  Thats rollin' like the Flintstones (rocks for tires).


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## joecool85 (Mar 18, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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That's not true.  I've had them on for 4,000 miles and like them a lot.  I have 30psi in them at the moment.  People always say that 4 ply rides better than 10 etc, it's only partially true.  The difference is primarily that the 10 ply can take WAY more psi (and hence offer a better maximum load capacity) than a 4 ply.  At 30psi you have the same load capacity whether it is 4 ply, 6 ply or 10 ply.  The only thing that increases capacity is the size of the tire in conjunction with how much pressure is in it.

This is info I got from a lot of research and reading what tire engineers as well as industry experts had to say.

As for why I have 10 ply on my truck, they were a good deal.  I got all four mounted and out the door for the same price as the 4 ply Mastercrafts I normally get.  I would have gone with the 4 plys again, but they were all out of stock and couldn't get them for a few months and I needed rubber.  I'm glad I got the 10 ply, they can take more abuse than a 4 ply and still ride great.


**edit**
Something else to note is that most shops will automatically put a lot more pressure into a 10 ply just because normally if you ask for one you need the psi.  If I ran the max pressure of 80psi it would ride like I had cement for tires.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 18, 2011)

Maybe it's just me and what I do with my trucks . . . and my 4Runner before . . . but I end up riding on a lot of gravel roads and even off road . . . for that reason alone I like having 6 extra plys between that stick or sharp rock and the inside of the tire . . . I would willingly sacrifice a bit of the ride to have a tire that is a little more puncture resistant.


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## mecreature (Mar 18, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> Maybe it's just me and what I do with my trucks . . . and my 4Runner before . . . but I end up riding on a lot of gravel roads and even off road . . . for that reason alone I like having 6 extra plys between that stick or sharp rock and the inside of the tire . . . I would willingly sacrifice a bit of the ride to have a tire that is a little more puncture resistant.



I live on a gravel road too. I forgot that part.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> . . . I would willingly sacrifice a bit of the ride to have a tire that is a little more puncture resistant.



3 out of 4 tires on my truck have at least 2 plugs each. :lol: I think my tires are so hard that without a little give, they are MORE prone to puncture.

I am not saying (or even alluding to) all 10 ply tires being created equal.  I am saying that the 10 ply E rated tires on MY truck are redonkulous.  At 30 PSI they will squat, but handle every pound of payload that my truck will take.  At 60 PSI, they belong on a dump truck.

Pick is of truckload with 30 PSI tires.


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## joecool85 (Mar 18, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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They might look ok, but I'd be willing to bet they would like 40+ psi with that type of load.  My truck does well with 30 psi as long as I keep the load below 1,000lbs.  If I put in 1,500+ lbs (truck maxes at 1,640lbs) I like to air up to 34-35lbs.

Also, 10 ply tires don't have "10 plies".  It is old nomenclature from bias ply tires.  But it IS a rating of how strong the sidewall is and how much pressure it can take.  10 ply tires do _generally _fair better offroad and puncture less, but now a days it has more to do with the tire build than the ply rating when it comes to puncture resistance.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

joecool85 said:
			
		

> If I put in 1,500+ lbs (truck maxes at 1,640lbs) I like to air up to 34-35lbs.



With a 3600 pound pallet of redi-mix cement at the back of the bed, was the first time I looked at the tires and thought "hmmm...shouda aired up the tires" :lol:


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## firefighterjake (Mar 18, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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 Someday I have got to meet you in person! Thanks for the chuckle Jags.


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

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WARNING - I do stupid things.


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## nate379 (Mar 18, 2011)

Do you think that a 3/4 or 1 ton truck is much heavier?  My 2500 diesel Dodge Ram is only about 900lbs heavier than your truck if yours is truly 6000lbs.

Last set of tires I had were D (what are in pic) and now I have E.  No difference in ride, but the extra weight rating does help me sleep at night.  

I can't find a better pic, but here it is with the old tires.  300 gal tote of water, bunch of steel under the wood and then as much firewood as I could fit.  Also that tank in the bed is a 50 gal diesel tank, tank alone is about 100lbs.  Figure about 3500ish lbs.

I wish I had a pic when I towed a Case backhoe.  Trailer empty was around 5000lbs and the backhoe I was told was ~15,000lbs.



			
				Jags said:
			
		

> If you put the tires from my truck onto your ranger, you wouldn't even need to pump them up.  They would stand on their own side walls.  With a 6000 pound truck, I run 30 psi in them, otherwise I don't have the weight to keep a flat foot print and they will wear in the center.  Just sayin' the tires that I have are too stiff for any typical LT use.  I can't imagine why you would want an E rated tire on a ranger.  Thats rollin' like the Flintstones (rocks for tires).


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## Jags (Mar 18, 2011)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> Do you think that a 3/4 or 1 ton truck is much heavier?  My 2500 diesel Dodge Ram is only about 900lbs heavier than your truck if yours is truly 6000lbs.



It has been a long time since I have had it across a scale, but if my recall is correct it was just shy of that without me and a low gas gauge.

Note: my mechanic has always questioned the title stating it is a half ton.  He says that this truck is the heaviest sprung 1/2 ton he has ever seen, and it handles weight light a 3/4, but the door states 1500 and so does the title.

Edit: online says standard cab 4x4 ~5300 (dry).  I probably carry 400 pounds of crap at all times, so getting close.


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## nate379 (Mar 18, 2011)

Sound like my Dad.  When I was a kid we went out to the quarry about 30 miles from home to get Lime.  Dad had the 79 Chev K10.  Well went across the scales and had 1.75 tons in the bed.

Now that isn't all that much, but it was the first time we had scaled it with a load.  The mudflaps were barely dragging the ground and hardly seemed like much weight.  Years before Dad had added 2 or 3 springs to the packs in the front and rear.  
Well couple loads we had done before... wood... scrap metal, gravel, etc...  the back tires where hitting the underneath of the flatbed.  With 3500lbs we still had another 5-6" before that happened

I have NO idea how that tiny 10 bolt rear end held up... truck is still used to this day for stuff like that and plowing snow.


Oh yeah, and all that time Dad ran the cheapest tires you could find on that truck.. I'm talking the ones that come on sale for something like 4 for $100.  Never had a blowup, don't know how, but there were times that I am surprised the rim didn't hit the ground on bumps.



			
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## mecreature (Mar 18, 2011)

Nate that 900 lbs is pure extra muscle. stronger axles and bigger brakes... the hole 9..

A buddy of mine had a 1500 dodge truck just about like Jags. we use to put a slide in camper in it load it up hook up the boat and head to tennessee. 

Way heavier then we should be.. now same everything except a crew cab 2500.. it is night and day... 

Not sure about power but it sure can handle things tons better then that 1500. 

again jmo


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## ROBERT F (Mar 18, 2011)

In regards to LT or P rated tires.  Pressure is the key factor.  For example.  A P265/70r17 113 S tire is rated at 2535 pounds at 35 psi.  In a light truck appliction you reduce the load index factor by dividing by 1.1.  So that tire in a LT application is 2304 pounds at 35 psi.  The same size tire, in a TRUE LT rating (has already been reduced)  (6,8,10 ply) requires MORE air to carry same amount of weight.  And truthfully, even the load range C tire, the 6 ply, is rated as a 112 tire and does not meet requirements even though it cares 2470 pounds at 50 psi. Now the 8 ply and 10 ply tires, at 35 psi only carry 1890 pounds  way underrated.  in order for those tires to carry the same amount of weight that the P rated tires in a light truck application carried they require apprx. 54 pounds of air. Now the 8 ply tires at 65 psi carry 2910 pounds, and the 10 ply at 80 psi carry 3195 pounds.NO way a p rated tire can acheive those load requirments.  This is why when properly applied, LT tires on a P tire application result in a rougher ride.  Now you all can run what ever pressure you want in what ever tire you want, but be aware that tire pressures and fitments have become huge issues in court battles as of recent.  If your operation of a vehicle with underated or overloaded due to underinflated tires results in an accident, you can be held responsible!  And the place of business that allowed the improper rated tires on the vehicle can be held responsible as well.  This is just the ramblings of a T.I.A. certified tire instructer.


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## jabush (Mar 19, 2011)

ratherbfishin said:
			
		

> I finally decided on a tire for my truck, I was going to go with the General Grabber AT2. 265/70/17. But.... they have been on national back order for 4 months,And I was told at least 2 more months (for the 4 ply) Can't get them anywhere including online. 2 different tire dealers told me within the next 2 months all tires will be in limited supply. I don't know if it is a production issue or a rubber shortage but that it what I was told. I can however get the tires in 10 ply. I have a 1500 Silverado crew cab. They tell me just to run them at a lower pressure and there will be not much difference than the 4 ply. Anyone agree or disagree? What tires have you really been impressed with? I go with a more aggressive tread like BFG AT type. My last set was trail mark M/S and they lasted very well but I don't need to go quite as aggressive as they were.
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> Steve



Did you try these guys?  http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop....gorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=135

The Grabber AT2 seems to be in stock.
I ordered two tires for my F-150 a while back and they were delivered within a few days.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 21, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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WARNING -- I tend to stupider things.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 21, 2011)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> Do you think that a 3/4 or 1 ton truck is much heavier?  My 2500 diesel Dodge Ram is only about 900lbs heavier than your truck if yours is truly 6000lbs.
> 
> Last set of tires I had were D (what are in pic) and now I have E.  No difference in ride, but the extra weight rating does help me sleep at night.
> 
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300 gallons of water? You must get pretty thirsty when working on the firewood.  And yes . . . I'm kidding . . . guessing that you might have to haul in your water? I know my sister and brother in law grab their water at a roadside spring since they do not have running water at their cabin.

On another note . . . sharp looking truck.


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## joecool85 (Mar 21, 2011)

Pineburner said:
			
		

> In regards to LT or P rated tires.  Pressure is the key factor.  For example.  A P265/70r17 113 S tire is rated at 2535 pounds at 35 psi.  In a light truck appliction you reduce the load index factor by dividing by 1.1.  So that tire in a LT application is 2304 pounds at 35 psi.  The same size tire, in a TRUE LT rating (has already been reduced)  (6,8,10 ply) requires MORE air to carry same amount of weight.  And truthfully, even the load range C tire, the 6 ply, is rated as a 112 tire and does not meet requirements even though it cares 2470 pounds at 50 psi. Now the 8 ply and 10 ply tires, at 35 psi only carry 1890 pounds  way underrated.  in order for those tires to carry the same amount of weight that the P rated tires in a light truck application carried they require apprx. 54 pounds of air. Now the 8 ply tires at 65 psi carry 2910 pounds, and the 10 ply at 80 psi carry 3195 pounds.NO way a p rated tire can acheive those load requirments.  This is why when properly applied, LT tires on a P tire application result in a rougher ride.  Now you all can run what ever pressure you want in what ever tire you want, but be aware that tire pressures and fitments have become huge issues in court battles as of recent.  If your operation of a vehicle with underated or overloaded due to underinflated tires results in an accident, you can be held responsible!  And the place of business that allowed the improper rated tires on the vehicle can be held responsible as well.  This is just the ramblings of a T.I.A. certified tire instructer.



My Ranger requires 245/75/16 in a P, so a 2,400 lb max carrying capacity.  How much pressure would that require in a 10ply LT tire and do you have a chart showing what you explained?

Also, I'm not overly concerned with running 30-32lbs in a 10ply since my entire rear axle is only rated for 2,750lbs.  Divide that by two tires and you're at 1,375 per tire.  This makes sense because the whole truck only weighs 3,600 lbs.  With a 70/30 weight ratio front to rear that means unloaded there is only 1,080 on the axle (540lbs per tire) and fully loaded to a 1,640lb max carrying capacity would put it at 2,720lbs or 1,360 per tire.

So most of the miles on the truck I have all of 540-600 lbs per tire, with every now and then going up to around 1,000 per tire.

The front tires should be fine too with ~1,260 per tire at any given time.

SO, I suppose that in a larger truck a 10 ply tire could make it ride rough if it does indeed require more lbs of pressure for a "standard load" situation.  But due to my Ranger's minimal needs it doesn't much matter how many plies are on it because everything in my tire size is way more than I need lol.


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## Ratherbfishin (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks for the link jabush, I'll give them a call. The site say's they have over 40 but I find that hard to believe since that tire is on national back order but we'll see. 156.50 isn't too bad a price but 101 to ship plus 40 or 50 bucks to install..dunno may be better just to go with the BFG's local or settle for another tire perhaps. I'll give the ole college try for free shipping like tire direct or tire rack has.


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## Ratherbfishin (Mar 25, 2011)

Discount tire direct was finally able to hook me up with the Grabber AT2's ...There on the way.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 25, 2011)

ratherbfishin said:
			
		

> Discount tire direct was finally able to hook me up with the Grabber AT2's ...There on the way.



Let us know how well they do . . .

I like Discount Tire . . . decent prices and free shipping . . . or at least they had free shipping. Saved a lot of money in the past buying tires through them.


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