# 2016/2017 VC owners thread



## jharkin (Oct 10, 2016)

Per request...   https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2015-2016-vc-owners-thread.146842/page-12#post-2103277


Continue on ladies and gentlemen...


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## jharkin (Oct 10, 2016)

No updates here.  Has not been cool enough to even think about burning yet and I still have some house project to finish before I get around to sweeping out the flue.   Wood supply is in excellent shape thanks to the record hot summer.


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## Dobish (Oct 10, 2016)

So far, we've had 2 fires.... temps are supposed to drop again in a few days!


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## defiant3 (Oct 13, 2016)

Got a fire in the old Defiant III right now. 55 degrees and raining. Too chilly w/o the stove, little too warm w/it going. Short fire, pine, hemlock and half rotten birch. Save the good stuff for later.


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## Woody Stover (Oct 13, 2016)

The Dutchwest 2460 will be cold this season, waiting for a tear-down and re-cement...unless I had to press it back into service this season for some reason. If I get another stove at some point I might end up selling the DW (with blower) to my BIL for his basement...he's got an old Resolute III down there now.


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## Diabel (Oct 13, 2016)

I have had few fires so far, this warm fall.
This morning it was wet and windy, got the fire going with hemlock (I have at least 1 cord of it designated for this fall), reloaded with more of the same around 5pm. House nice and toasty....all of the females of the house love it!


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## jharkin (Oct 22, 2016)

Ok, so I finally got around to the cleanout yesterday.  Nothing exciting to report, got about 2 coffee cans of fine black soot out of the flue, which is typical.  Stove innards looked good, ceramic cat and refractory in great shape, all gaskets pass the dollar test.

I powered up the AT100 and it still remembers the peak temp from the last burn of last season.  

We are ready to rock here.


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## jharkin (Oct 22, 2016)

Also the annual reminder to VC rebuilders:   I have lots of 10-24 and 1/4-20 hardware left over from my rebuild. Anybody who needs some send me a PM, I'll mail you a handful of screws for the cost of postage.


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## Excavator (Oct 22, 2016)

Lit my old Encore today. Feels great  to feel the heat


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## Diabel (Oct 22, 2016)

Yeah, this is a perfect woodstove heat weather.
Mine has been going since yesterday afternoon.


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## defiant3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Wait, so jharkin, what's holding your stove together?


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## Diabel (Oct 22, 2016)

New stainless steel bolts I assume!!


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## jharkin (Oct 23, 2016)

I had to buy the fasteners in 50 packs. I have lots of extras and have offered them up to members the last two seasons.


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## DMoloney (Oct 24, 2016)

Reassembled my Encore today--may need to adjust the damper a bit but looks like I'm ready to cook. Chimney swept clean.
I look forward to my first fire but looks like we've got mild air for a while yet... 
I really appreciate this forum, VC owners are few and far between in my neck of the woods.  Thank you Jeremy (and others) for the Encore rebuild posted 2013--it was a huge help to me. I had already fixed my doors last season and are still in good shape, but may take you up on some of those screws next year, thanks.


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## newburn (Oct 26, 2016)

any ideas why my catalyst isn't glowing red?  I have a factory installed cat probe (with just a white section that reads operate catalyst) yet it never seems to get into the white section on the probe.  My girdle was reading 500 when I closed the bypass damper.  I really feel like the probe isn't working properly.  Anyone else using this probe?


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 28, 2016)

Been lighting small fires in the morning here in Michigan. It's enough to keep the house above 70 all day with out the furnace kicking on. I have just under 10 full cord laying around do I think I'm in good shape for the winter


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## Mich woodcutter (Oct 31, 2016)

Here in Michigan...have a 15 year old Defiant that was overfired last year and needs rebuilt. Considering either new Defiant or Drolet stove from Farm store ......Any suggestions?


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2016)

The Defiant is a winner in looks, but if you are looking for simple to maintain good heat then I would consider the Drolet HT2000.


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## jharkin (Nov 3, 2016)

newburn said:


> any ideas why my catalyst isn't glowing red?  I have a factory installed cat probe (with just a white section that reads operate catalyst) yet it never seems to get into the white section on the probe.  My girdle was reading 500 when I closed the bypass damper.  I really feel like the probe isn't working properly.  Anyone else using this probe?



The only time I ever see a red glow coming from under the cat hood is when my probe is into the overfire range.   Maybe the 2040 is different, but in the 2550 at least the hood covers up the cat so well you rarely actually see it glow.


If you want to try a better probe, many of us have switched to the Auber AT100. Seems to be more accurate and gives you exact degree readings all the way down to room temp so its easier to tell when the cat lights off. there is some discussion in the later pages of the 2015/16 thread on how to set it up.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 20, 2016)

Hello fellow  VC burners. Question for the guys using the AT100. what probe are you guys using? My AT replaced the condar so I just used the condar probe. I am wanting to get another AT for my cabin and vaguely remember Aubers options for probes being different lengths or something weird.


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## Diabel (Nov 20, 2016)

6". Works fine


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 20, 2016)

Does the six inch stick farther out from the back of the stove or in the cat box more?  I have the rear heat shield on my stove.


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## Diabel (Nov 20, 2016)

Sticks further out the back. Then you need to source out a 4". Strange that Auber does not sell a 4" that is good to 2000*f


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 24, 2016)

So I have smoke coming out the chimney. Cat cruises anywhere between 1100-1400 on a full load of splits in the 6" range. Stove top 400-500. Flue around 250-300. Damper plate gasket? Or complete upper fire back service?  I'm guess it's impossible to re do the damper plate gasket with the upper fire back in place. Any thoughts?  

13' stack. 7' of it is single wall inside. Straight shot
Wood MC is 14-20


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## Diabel (Nov 24, 2016)

Do the $$ test on the gasket first.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 24, 2016)

I did. Left side is fairly tight. Right side not so much. It's kind of different at each point I test it. I'm going to adjust the lock nut on plate first and see what happens. Fingers crossed.


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## Reckless (Dec 12, 2016)

Not a whole lot of action in here?!?! Been burning almost 24/7 for a week or so and all is well. I did seal off the secondary after a year of having it unsealed (normal operation). After running it both ways I really feel like I have way more control with it sealed plus the cat responds better to primary adjustments. For those wondering I disconnected the secondary air door from the thermal coil, folded some tin foil and placed it in the opening for good measure I put the door over the top and screwed it down tight. I would recommend it to anyone who has a stove that runs a little hot (cat temp wise)


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## Diabel (Dec 12, 2016)

I am trying to picture this.
You sealed tight the secondary air intake?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 12, 2016)

Funny you say that reckless. I was starting to think this thread was a ghost town this year. Just the other day I was reading the thread from 2013. There is a lot of discussion about the secondary air control that year. What I have done is changed the timing to 3:00 o'clock and removed the little stopper pin on the shutter. I still get good cat light offs and the secondary is completely shut around 1150-1250 degrees. I feel much more comfortable going to bed with the cat cruising between 1100-1300.


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## Reckless (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> I am trying to picture this.
> You sealed tight the secondary air intake?



Yes sir foiled and sealed. I can snap a pic if needed. 


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## BronYrAur (Dec 13, 2016)

Have a new 2040, been burning it for 3 weeks. Heats my home well, looks great doing it! Does have a problem, the stove rattles internally on both sides where the linkages are located when the stove is jostled such as loading or locking closed the front doors.The rattling continues on its own for several to many seconds then settles down.
If I were to actually bump into the stove it would rattle for 10-20 seconds.

My question... Why does my $2900 stove that heats my home and looks awesome rattle like that?


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

Reckless said:


> Yes sir foiled and sealed. I can snap a pic if needed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks Reckless.

This past weekend my stove ran hot for some reason. At one point the ATT recorded 1823*F
In the past I have seen it reach 1700. But it usually runs at around 1400 avg. Also, I can hear the secondary door/shutter rattling as the air runs through it (never did this before this past weekend). Plus, as I shut the primary air 100% I still have some flame in the fire box.

I did not load for the overnight burn last night. Will take the plate off and look at the shutter. Maybe I will experiment and tape it with aluminum tape and see what happens.

Will report.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

BronYrAur said:


> Have a new 2040, been burning it for 3 weeks. Heats my home well, looks great doing it! Does have a problem, the stove rattles internally on both sides where the linkages are located when the stove is jostled such as loading or locking closed the front doors.The rattling continues on its own for several to many seconds then settles down.
> If I were to actually bump into the stove it would rattle for 10-20 seconds.
> 
> My question... Why does my $2900 stove that heats my home and looks awesome rattle like that?
> View attachment 190165



Welcome to the forum Bron..

I can see the primary air linkage rattling if loose. (The right hand side air control lever, if you are facing the stove). On the other bypass side all you have is heady duty rods that control the opening/closing of the bypass. When the stove is cold, bump it and try to pinpoint the rattling location. As it rattles move the primary air and see if it stops. If it does, it needs to be tightened.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Thanks Reckless.
> 
> This past weekend my stove ran hot for some reason. At one point the ATT recorded 1823*F
> In the past I have seen it reach 1700. But it usually runs at around 1400 avg. Also, I can hear the secondary door/shutter rattling as the air runs through it (never did this before this past weekend). Plus, as I shut the primary air 100% I still have some flame in the fire box.
> ...


My difiant will do this on reloads. Usually with lots of coals and strong draft.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

BronYrAur said:


> Have a new 2040, been burning it for 3 weeks. Heats my home well, looks great doing it! Does have a problem, the stove rattles internally on both sides where the linkages are located when the stove is jostled such as loading or locking closed the front doors.The rattling continues on its own for several to many seconds then settles down.
> If I were to actually bump into the stove it would rattle for 10-20 seconds.
> 
> My question... Why does my $2900 stove that heats my home and looks awesome rattle like that?
> View attachment 190165




Btw beautiful hearth. Is the floor in front of the stove wood or tile?


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

So, I took the plate of and snapped a pic.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

All looks normal, nothing loose. Not sure what is rattling. Should I tape it, or loosen the screw and move it closer to a close position?


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## trispad (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> This past weekend my stove ran hot for some reason. At one point the ATT recorded 1823*F



At what CAT temps does everyone start to get worried? I currently have my temp alarm go off at 1650, but semi regularly seem to hit that temperature on my Defiant 2n1. I have been thinking about closing off part of the secondary air on the underside/back of the stove. I remember reading a VC owners thread a few years back where someone put screws in the holes under the CAT chamber.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

trispad said:


> At what CAT temps does everyone start to get worried? I currently have my temp alarm go off at 1650, but semi regularly seem to hit that temperature on my Defiant 2n1. I have been thinking about closing off part of the secondary air on the underside/back of the stove. I remember reading a VC owners thread a few years back where someone put screws in the holes under the CAT chamber.



1650 you are ok
1800 things start to glow red! Not good for sure!


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

I got it taped with aluminum tape. Ready for light off.

Something tell me though.....I just eliminated a direct air supply to the cat. Not sure if this is ok.

I did not put the plate back on, so I can easily remove the tape if things go sideways!!


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2016)

How is your draft?  If I remember correctly reckless has insane draft so I think that is how he can get away with a completely sealed secondary. You can try unhooking the rod and taping it off first. If you change the timing so the shutter closes faster you might end up with a door that opens again when the coil expands to far.


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## BronYrAur (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Btw beautiful hearth. Is the floor in front of the stove wood or tile?



Thanks Diabel.
Upon upon closer inspection the rattle originated from the damper linkage location. Normally I'd look at a schematic and begin taking it apart but being a brand new stove id imagine this could or is "warranty work".

I put a lot of love into the stonework and tile for my hearth.
It's a 36" reclaimed barn wood tile, I've got it in several locations throughout my home


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

BronYrAur said:


> Thanks Diabel.
> Upon upon closer inspection the rattle originated from the damper linkage location. Normally I'd look at a schematic and begin taking it apart but being a brand new stove id imagine this could or is "warranty work".
> 
> I put a lot of love into the stonework and tile for my hearth.
> It's a 36" reclaimed barn wood tile, I've got it in several locations throughout my home



Nice!!

What is the distance from the front legs of the stove to the edge of the hearth?


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## BronYrAur (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Nice!!
> 
> What is the distance from the front legs of the stove to the edge of the hearth?





Diabel said:


> Nice!!
> 
> What is the distance from the front legs of the stove to the edge of the hearth?



Looks like 4-6" the stonework varies


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

BronYrAur said:


> Looks like 4-6" the stonework varies



I believe the code calls for 18-19" 
You might need to put a hearth pad in front of that hearth while stove in use.


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## BronYrAur (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> I believe the code calls for 18-19"
> You might need to put a hearth pad in front of that hearth while stove in use.



It's tile (that looks like wood) on concrete. It's okay.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

BronYrAur said:


> It's tile (that looks like wood) on concrete. It's okay.




Perfect. I miss read your post.
Beautiful tile


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> I got it taped with aluminum tape. Ready for light off.
> 
> Something tell me though.....I just eliminated a direct air supply to the cat. Not sure if this is ok.
> 
> I did not put the plate back on, so I can easily remove the tape if things go sideways!!




Update:

When I lit the stove at 9:30 (same way as usual), in bypass open mode, the cat probe started climbing right away. Within 10min cat probe read 500, stove top 275 and flue probe 200. I have never seen this before. With the cat at 500 I shut the bypass. Within 10min cat probe read 1400, stove top 300 and flue 300. I (in increments) closed the primary to 75% closed. Cat probe went down to 1200, flue stayed at 300 stovetop slowly climbed to 500. Then cat came up to 1500, then went back down to 1250. 
Now 2hrs into the burn, cat settled at 1300 (nice), flue at 350 and stove top at 550.

Life is good!! 

So, as per Reckless suggestion, taping the secondary intake made the stove more controllable. 

One thing however, still after two hours into the burn I see some white smoke out the pipe. Looks like steam, it dissipates after few feet from the cap. But it is not cold out (30*F) and two hrs in I should not see that.


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## trispad (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Now 2hrs into the burn, cat settled at 1300 (nice), flue at 350 and stove top at 550.


What do you generally see your flue probe at in relation to your cat temp? This is my first year with a flue probe and it seems to run hot to me. Maybe 40% of cat temp give or take. 1400 on the cat would be 600 or so on the flue probe.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

trispad said:


> What do you generally see your flue probe at in relation to your cat temp? This is my first year with a flue probe and it seems to run hot to me. Maybe 40% of cat temp give or take. 1400 on the cat would be 600 or so on the flue probe.




Every flue system is different, but 600 flue is high for a cat stove. I never see my flue over 400.
last weekend when my cat was going crazy 1823!!
My flue read at the same time 500. 

Right now cat is frozen at 1300 and flue at 300 stove top 550 (thanks you Reckless!!) Oh and nothing visible out the pipe.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2016)

trispad said:


> At what CAT temps does everyone start to get worried? I currently have my temp alarm go off at 1650, but semi regularly seem to hit that temperature on my Defiant 2n1. I have been thinking about closing off part of the secondary air on the underside/back of the stove. I remember reading a VC owners thread a few years back where someone put screws in the holes under the CAT chamber.


I really don't even like to 1550. It seems to close to the danger zone for me. With the little stopper tab pulled out of the secondary shutter I rarely see cat temps hit 1600.


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## trispad (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Every flue system is different, but 600 flue is high for a cat stove


Any thoughts on where to start to diagnosing the high flue temp? Checking the griddle and door gaskets?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2016)

trispad said:


> Any thoughts on where to start to diagnosing the high flue temp? Checking the griddle and door gaskets?


That's a good start. What does the firebox look like when your flue temp is 600*?


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

What is the location of your flue thermo? In relation to the stovetop


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## trispad (Dec 13, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> That's a good start. What does the firebox look like when your flue temp is 600*?


Generally uninteresting and black. There will be some activity at the back of the fire box, but definitely no flame show.

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## trispad (Dec 13, 2016)

Diabel said:


> What is the location of your flue thermo? In relation to the stovetop


Flue probe is on the back of the stove pipe, 18" up. Not sure if relevant but it does have an 8" oval to 6" round adapter to 6" pipe. All double wall.

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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2016)

trispad said:


> Flue probe is on the back of the stove pipe, 18" up. Not sure if relevant but it does have an 8" oval to 6" round adapter to 6" pipe. All double wall.
> 
> Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk



These probes are relatively inexpensive. 20.00 more less, get another one and try it out. You never know maybe yours is defective


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2016)

trispad said:


> Generally uninteresting and black. There will be some activity at the back of the fire box, but definitely no flame show.
> 
> Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Interesting. With flue temps that high you would think there would be s crazy hot active fire going on. Maybe diabel is on to something try a new probe thermo and see what happens.


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## trispad (Dec 14, 2016)

I am currently using a digital probe. I will getting an analog probe to compare against.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2016)

Digital probes are usually pretty accurate in my opinion.


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## jharkin (Dec 14, 2016)

hey guys.


My 2550 got its first workout of this season this past weekend when temps went to 10F Sat night.  Burned 24/7 from Thu to Mon and overall no issues.  Saturday night with the extra strong draft the cart went to 1650+ and I had to open the bypass for a while to let her cool but then it settled down.


I am interested in all this modification of the secondary.  My concern is the same as diabel though - by blocking the secondary it seems like what we are dong is starving the cat for oxygen and thus reducing temp because its not burning all the smoke that's passing through.   

I wonder if a better approach is to maybe block off one or both of the EPA holes in the ashpan to reduce the primary smoke production?  It seems like that would be a better way to slow it down while retaining high efficiency?  Maybe even stretch out the burn time?


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2016)

With the mod Reckless suggested my stove seems to be working better. It was working fine until the outside temps dipped and my cat started acting up. Crazy temps. 
Now with the mod the firebox temps are the same, flue temps are also the same, burn times the same. 
But the cat temp it much more responsive to the primary air control. It has been cold here (high pressure) but I have not seen the cat exceed 1550
So, for sure improvement.

I am still a bit concerned about the stuff coming out the pipe. Appears like steam, white and dissipates within 6-8'. Before the mod, it was just waves of heat but the outside temps were above freezing.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2016)

jharkin said:


> hey guys.
> 
> 
> My 2550 got its first workout of this season this past weekend when temps went to 10F Sat night.  Burned 24/7 from Thu to Mon and overall no issues.  Saturday night with the extra strong draft the cart went to 1650+ and I had to open the bypass for a while to let her cool but then it settled down.
> ...


 
Interesting approach but once in cat mode how much of the air is actually being pulled in through the EPA holes in the ashpan?  I can see how this may help with slowing the gassing off of the wood, in return giving the cat less smoke to process and equaling lower cat temps.  What I did was take the pin out of the shutter and change the timing to 3 oclock on the coil.  This way I still get full air on light off and around 1200 degrees, give or take, the shutter is completely closed.  I am toying with the idea of turning the coil back to 2:30 to keep the shutter open a little longer before completely closed.  If I can time it right the shutter will "just" completely close, so when the cat cools down a little it will ever so slightly open giving it a little more oxygen to keep the burn going strong.  This is all in theory though I suppose!


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## jharkin (Dec 14, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Interesting approach but once in cat mode how much of the air is actually being pulled in through the EPA holes in the ashpan?  I can see how this may help with slowing the gassing off of the wood, in return giving the cat less smoke to process and equaling lower cat temps.  What I did was take the pin out of the shutter and change the timing to 3 oclock on the coil.  This way I still get full air on light off and around 1200 degrees, give or take, the shutter is completely closed.  I am toying with the idea of turning the coil back to 2:30 to keep the shutter open a little longer before completely closed.  If I can time it right the shutter will "just" completely close, so when the cat cools down a little it will ever so slightly open giving it a little more oxygen to keep the burn going strong.  This is all in theory though I suppose!



I know on very cold nights when I have an exceptionally strong craft its pulling a decent amount of air through those EPA holes, as I still get flame in the firebox even with the primary completely closed.  This generally happens whenever the outside temp dips below 20.

In other threads it was mentioned that those EPA holes where put in the aspan on purpose to provide a small amount of air flowing up through the grate directly into the coal bed, to help keep the coals alive when the primary is shut.

I don't think that blocking both EPA holes would be a good idea.... maybe just one of them.



Interesting logic on the moving the coil.  I remember Reckless found the same thing, that at stock timing the coil would wind all the way past fully closed and start to open up again when cat temps got excessive like 1600+.    Stock timing is around 4-5 o'clock I think?


I'm thinking, maybe I'll close off one of the two EPA holes and change my secondary timing the way you did and see what that does.


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## Excavator (Dec 14, 2016)

Been following this thread last few days and just wanted to add my thoughts. I rebuilt my 0028 encore again few years ago when i installed my insulated liner and block off plate. I have come to my own conlusion that now my draft is just much stronger and i simply reload stove and close damper around 350 or 400 griddle temp. Then in about 10 minutes my cat probe hits 750 i will close air half way and never have problem. Now if i experiment and not engage cat till griddle temp hits 500+ then she will slowly creep up to 1700+  and then aftet making me nervous it slowly comes back


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## Dobish (Dec 14, 2016)

i had a really good burn last night... secondaries in full effect, the stove top around 500, and the flue temps at 300. Cat temp around 1200. It was really nice. i woke up this morning, the stove temp was 200, and the cat temp was around 200.... stove still had big coals in it.... i loaded up a fresh load, and as it is heating up, I hear what sounded like rain on a tin roof coming down my chimney. I have heard this on occasion, but it was a bit unnerving. I tapped on the pipe and I could hear more stuff falling down....


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2016)

Dobish said:


> i had a really good burn last night... secondaries in full effect, the stove top around 500, and the flue temps at 300. Cat temp around 1200. It was really nice. i woke up this morning, the stove temp was 200, and the cat temp was around 200.... stove still had big coals in it.... i loaded up a fresh load, and as it is heating up, I hear what sounded like rain on a tin roof coming down my chimney. I have heard this on occasion, but it was a bit unnerving. I tapped on the pipe and I could hear more stuff falling down....



When was the last time you cleaned your chimney?


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## Dobish (Dec 14, 2016)

Diabel said:


> When was the last time you cleaned your chimney?


i cleaned it this past summer...  The moisture meter hasn't gone over 18% on anything i have checked this year. Temps do get a little low at night sometimes. I was burning really dry cedar this morning, and I thought that it might have just been particulates when the airflow dropped that I was hearing.  I will try and get a video so I can capture the sound next time.

Below are pictures of the chimney before (this was after most of a season of burning less than ideal wood:




and after cleaning:


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2016)

Dobish said:


> i had a really good burn last night... secondaries in full effect, the stove top around 500, and the flue temps at 300. Cat temp around 1200. It was really nice. i woke up this morning, the stove temp was 200, and the cat temp was around 200.... stove still had big coals in it.... i loaded up a fresh load, and as it is heating up, I hear what sounded like rain on a tin roof coming down my chimney. I have heard this on occasion, but it was a bit unnerving. I tapped on the pipe and I could hear more stuff falling down....


That would be the dreaded creosote chunks.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2016)

jharkin said:


> I know on very cold nights when I have an exceptionally strong craft its pulling a decent amount of air through those EPA holes, as I still get flame in the firebox even with the primary completely closed.  This generally happens whenever the outside temp dips below 20.
> 
> In other threads it was mentioned that those EPA holes where put in the aspan on purpose to provide a small amount of air flowing up through the grate directly into the coal bed, to help keep the coals alive when the primary is shut.
> 
> ...


Post your results. I'm curious to see how plugging one of the EPA holes work.


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## jharkin (Dec 14, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Post your results. I'm curious to see how plugging one of the EPA holes work.



I'm not exactly sure what Im going to try yet.  I might first try the method of changing the timing to 3 o'clock and see what that does.  Then maybe try plugging one hole.

If I do it all at once we wont know what made a difference....


I can say that Excavators method seems to work also - but when I do it that way the chimney is belching smoke like an OWB for the 10-20 minutes it takes to the cat to climb up to temp.


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## Reckless (Dec 14, 2016)

I have been keeping the cat 1250-1450 and no smoke from the stack. Might not work for everyone YMMV. With that said with cat engaged and at 1300 range the pipe directly above the collar reads 200 with external






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## Herdvet (Dec 15, 2016)

I bought my Encore 2014 a year ago and it began overfiring almost immediately - still is. Only way I've found to prevent it is to shut down both the damper and the intake well before the stove top thermometer gets into the high range. Even then it will eventually reach the 700 range and above before running out of fuel. Only thing I can imagine is that there's some other source of air that I can't find. Chimney cleaners came yesterday and confirmed what I feared - lots of creosote, presumably from my choking it much of the time.

Last winter I installed the thermometer that came with it, and tried using the converter, but it burned out, too. VC replaced it but I'm nervous about reinstalling it. Wondering whether the tiny hole the thermometer made in the back could be the unwelcome source of air. Ideas, anybody?

I should add that the stove vents into a steel chimney liner professionally installed at the same time as the stove, a year ago. And that, aside from the catalytic addition, I'm an experienced VC stove user, having used both a classic Vigilant and an earlier model Encore for many years, in different locations.


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## jharkin (Dec 15, 2016)

When you say "tried using the converter"  do you mean the catalyst?

If so, leaving it out I believe is forcing the stove to work like one of the old Everburn Neverburn non-cats and those where notoriously difficult to get to sustain good secondary combustion.

Put the cat back in, should cut down your creosote tremendously.

Also the usual question - how is your wood supply?


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## jharkin (Dec 15, 2016)

Hey guys, maybe we should bring up the operation process reminder again.  Ive made a few more tweaks from your suggestions, based off the original procedure I posted during my rebuild.



*Vermont Castings Catalytic Stove Guide*

Setup:


Thermometers are your friend.   Griddle thermometer is a must, a cat probe is almost a must and a stack temp gauge is nice to have.
If you don't have an existing cat probe a great setup is the Auber AT100 using a k-type thermocouple.  This setup shows the temp in 1 degree increments and responds faster than the Condar monitor. Also allows you to setup audible alarms.
(add a link to the setup discussion on the AT100 from last year)

Startup Procedure:

Start up a fire and let it burn wide open to warm up the stove
On a new load you close the damper (bypass) when the *griddle temp reads 450F* (we used to say 500, but that causes overfire for some. you need to learn what works for you)
Alternate method - if you have a stack thermometer use this is a guide rather than the griddle.  I find that reliable light offs happen when my stack surface temp is 400-500 regardless of griddle temp.

If the cat lights off properly you should see *probe temp pass 500 and start rising rapidly toward 1000*+ in 5 min or less, if it climbs slowly and stops around 800 that is a catalyst stall and you need to reopen the damper and heat it up some more then try again. Once the cat temp is climbing rapidly start closing down the primary air in stages. the* goal is to get the primary air fully closed before the cat temp reaches 1000F.*
Cruising:

Once you are cruising over 1000 and the temp rise has settled down, you can open up the primary again and adjust for the heat output you need.

Any time you see the cat probe temp over 1600 you should be careful (1700+ is the danger zone) - either close the primary air completely to slow things down, or open up the primary air to get more fire in the box, which reduces the amount of smoke the cat has to burn, but burns the load up faster and throws a lot more heat.

In cruising mode the probe temp will normally be in the 1100-1600 range (griddle might be 400-700 depending on how the primary air is set). During this part of the burn the air control will typically be almost closed but the stove is pumping out massive heat from the back casting due to the cat. Probe temp usually will slowly climb through the burn then peak and drop off fast. This part of the burn might be 1-2 hours for a couple splits or as much as 4-6 hours on a full packed load of Oak.
End phase of the burn:

Once the probe temp peaks and starts falling s you know the major out gassing phase of the burn is done. You still have hours of usable heat in the coals and at this point you can safely open up the air control to maintain griddle temp without fear of overheating the catalyst.
Once the cat temp falls below 800 with the air control open the load is pretty much burned out and its time to reload.
How much wood to load?

If you want long slow burns you can pack it full.  When you pack it full use fewer but larger splits. 

If you need high heat run a smaller load and keep the air control more open.  You have to re-load more frequently but there is less chance of over firing the cat with smaller loads of wood
Factors that contribute to over firing risk:   large loads, using lots of small splits that off gas aggressively, strong draft due to very cold temps or an air leak.  You need to learn with experience what combinations of split size, load size and air setting work for different weather.
What to do if you get into an over fire situation?

1700F cat probe temp is Condar's  recommended limit.  1800 is the point that we have all seen glowing iron.  I once hit 2000 for about a half hour. It didn't cause permanent damage or instant cat death but I don't recommend it.
Ceramic cat's seem to work better for us than the diesel foil steelcats made by Condar.

If the cat goes beyond 1700, first thing to do is open the bypass.  Let it drop back to 1200 or so then re-engage
Doing this once or twice usually bring it back in control.  If it doesn't or if the firebox temps get out of control check to make sure you don't have something preventing the primary from closing completely (mine got jammed open once).
If everything else is good and its still out of control you can try stuffing tin foil into the EPA air holes in the ashpan (behind the front legs) 

If even that does work, open up the front door to cool it off with fresh air, or dump a pail of ash on the fire to smother it.


Please suggest additions or modifications to this.  Maybe we can sticky it for VC guys.


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## Excavator (Dec 15, 2016)

Another quick cure I found works for me if i get above 1700 is I open my window all the way which is 2 feet away from stove and the cold air seems to be sucked in stove and calm her down very fast and calm me as well


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## Dobish (Dec 15, 2016)

jharkin said:


> Hey guys, maybe we should bring up the operation process reminder again.  Ive made a few more tweaks from your suggestions, based off the original procedure I posted during my rebuild.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I wish i could have found this when i made the flowchart 
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...urning-wood-in-your-stove-a-flowchart.157888/


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## Herdvet (Dec 15, 2016)

jharkin said:


> When you say "tried using the converter"  do you mean the catalyst?
> 
> If so, leaving it out I believe is forcing the stove to work like one of the old Everburn Neverburn non-cats and those where notoriously difficult to get to sustain good secondary combustion.
> 
> ...



Wood supply is fine - I've harvested, cut, split and seasoned my own, here and elsewhere, for many years. And, yes, I'm referring to the catalyst. I'm familiar with all of the steps you list, and incorporated them when using it. The stove was getting too hot then, as well.

The creosote is more of an annoyance; the overheating is my problem. Any other suggestions?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 15, 2016)

Herdvet said:


> Wood supply is fine - I've harvested, cut, split and seasoned my own, here and elsewhere, for many years. And, yes, I'm referring to the catalyst. I'm familiar with all of the steps you list, and incorporated them when using it. The stove was getting too hot then, as well.
> 
> The creosote is more of an annoyance; the overheating is my problem. Any other suggestions?


Seal off your secondary air inlet.


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## Diabel (Dec 15, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Seal off your secondary air inlet.



Try it. It will not hurt.


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Dec 15, 2016)

Mich woodcutter said:


> Here in Michigan...have a 15 year old Defiant that was overfired last year and needs rebuilt. Considering either new Defiant or Drolet stove from Farm store ......Any suggestions?


Mich I suggest the drolet. All I can say is I'm totally satisfied with my drolet classic with blower


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

Well I didn't follow my own advice to change only one thing.   I set the timing to 3 o'clock, removed the stop from the secondary shutter and plugged the right side EPA hole.

Lit up this morning with an outside temp of 3F.
Stove came up to temp very quick, closed the damper when the stove top was 450 (flue surface 500) and the cat ver quickly came up to temp.... but then started to slow down as it approached 1000 and not rocket into the 4 figures.

Now its settled, I still have the air a full 1/4 open because its COOOOLD, surface temp is 550, cat is about 1300.  I can see the secondary is completely closed and there is nothing but steam wisps outside.


We shall see later once the hose stabilizes and I can lower the air down how the cat reacts.  So far, so good.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Reloaded at 6:30 this morning. Currently cruising at 1345 cat and 450 gt. Relaxing drinking a cup of coffee and watching the show.


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

WOW....  Stove seems so much more controllable with these mods.  Changing the timing and cutting off the tab on the seconday means that it is basically fully closed as soon as the cat chamber is past 500. You get some extra air on that first lightoff and then nothing.

But hte result speaks for itself.  Cranking on high output with outside temps below 10 I never saw a cat temp past 1350.

Now I did a full reload, and have it shut down to cruise and its sitting around 1050.  edit - just dropped to 975.


Ive never seen it cruise so low.

I might need to undo the EPA hole block, give it some more air.



So far, so good.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

jharkin said:


> WOW....  Stove seems so much more controllable with these mods.  Changing the timing and cutting off the tab on the seconday means that it is basically fully closed as soon as the cat chamber is past 500. You get some extra air on that first lightoff and then nothing.
> 
> But hte result speaks for itself.  Cranking on high output with outside temps below 10 I never saw a cat temp past 1350.
> 
> ...




Yeah, when I ran my old 0028, at one point I blocked one of the EPA holes and did not like the performance. The start ups were harder and I would have few unburnt pieces of wood at the end of the cycle. 

The Reckless mod seems to work very well. Since the mod my 2550 has been running 24/7 (3 loads per day) and the cat always stays below 1550*
Very controllable.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

I have not seen this once last winter!!


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out).  I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 190511
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like my cap I don't know if the smoke is the result of a cooler running cat or I need to regasket the whole stove.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

jharkin said:


> Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out).  I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.



That is funny. On the 0028 the holes were in the same spot but horizontal, I just stuck a bolt in there from the outside with a bit of gasket cement


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Looks like my cap I don't know if the smoke is the result of a cooler running cat or I need to regasket the whole stove.



I believe this is steam. I hope!!

It is cold out there!


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> That is funny. On the 0028 the holes were in the same spot but horizontal, I just stuck a bolt in there from the outside with a bit of gasket cement



Haha...Ingenuity wins.  I got a piece of stiff wire and bent a hook into it, and managed to shove the foil out of position from the outside.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

jharkin said:


> Stupid me, blocked off the EPA hole from the inside (since the foil kept falling out).  I will have to wait for the next reload to open the ashpan and reach in there with heavy gloves and pliers to undo it.


When I tried blocking the EPA holes last I just put a little refractory cement on my finger and pushed it up into the holes. It was easy enough to remove when I realized it was not a good mod for me.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> I believe this is steam. I hope!!
> 
> It is cold out there!


I feel it is mostly steam. However a couple times this year I have had smoke just pouring out of my cap. Not sure why or how but it has happened. Since this stove was bought used I plan on doing a partial rebuild after the burn season. I will thank jharkin now for the detailed rebuild he did!  It will come in handy.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

One thing VC did well is rate this stove for its space heating capabilities. It is rated to heat 1500sf. 
My main level of the house is 1500sf. The stove keeps this level perfectly cozy in this brutal cold. 
My basement (fully finished) is 1500sf I do not expect the encore to contribute anything there. A fireplace (NG) does the job. 
The second level 1500sf., that is another story. With mild weather 30s enough heat will migrate upstairs to keep it comfortable. But last night I found myself digging out two space heaters and placing them upstairs. So, running the encore, NG fireplace and two electric heaters....hmmm

My 13 year old son comes up to me and says.."is the central heating system busted or something?"

I paused....(I must be going crazy). Walked over to the thermostat (which is only set to run 1hr in the morning), flipped the switch. One hr later the whole house was toasty, stove room was boiling!!


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I feel it is mostly steam. However a couple times this year I have had smoke just pouring out of my cap. Not sure why or how but it has happened. Since this stove was bought used I plan on doing a partial rebuild after the burn season. I will thank jharkin now for the detailed rebuild he did!  It will come in handy.




 Very easy rebuild, especially a partial.
I did a full tear down on my 2550, right down to the base. It was fun.


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## Dobish (Dec 16, 2016)

so this may be a silly question, but i was thinking about it this morning when i checked out the stove. I reloaded it, and it was all nice and toasty, temps around 650 griddle, 450 flue. I closed the bypass and cat temp started rising in about 3 minutes. got up to around 900, but there was just coals, no flames. No smoke coming out of the chimney, stove temps still around 500. It got me thinking, I can't see the flames above the cat, so should I just assume that if it is up to temp and is not pouring smoke out of the chimney that it is burning? 

Temp shouldn't keep rising if it hasn't "lighted off" yet right?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

jharkin said:


> Hey guys, maybe we should bring up the operation process reminder again.  Ive made a few more tweaks from your suggestions, based off the original procedure I posted during my rebuild.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it is good to note the AT100 is also much cheaper than the condar. so Avoid the condar, it is a joke.  Also for the people using the rear heat shield, the 6" k type probe from Auber Instruments will not fit.  You will have to drill a hole in your heat shield or purchase just the 4" probe from condar.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Very easy rebuild, especially a partial.
> I did a full tear down on my 2550, right down to the base. It was fun.


I am hoping to not have to break down the castings and re-cement them.  I will re-gasket the whole stove.  Maybe even get the whole fireback kit and refreactory box.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I am hoping to not have to break down the castings and re-cement them.  I will re-gasket the whole stove.  Maybe even get the whole fireback kit and refreactory box.



The inner castings are very easy to regasket. Bypass essambly not so much!!


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> The inner castings are very easy to regasket. Bypass essambly not so much!!


so I have read,  Im kind of dreading pulling out the upper fireback but it will be good to go into next winter knowing everything is in tip top.


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

Just go ahead and pull the upper fireback. It will be much easier to regastket the damper, etc when its out.  

The worst part is getting it out if you have a lot of old furnace cement  encrusted around it.... just keep chipping away at it and it will break free eventually. 

Once out and cleaned up getting it back in is not difficult - just messy and fiddly.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

Will you be pulling the stove out completely?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 16, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Will you be pulling the stove out completely?


Not wanting to. I was hoping to turn my dining room into a work shop so I can do a complete hearth and chimney rebuild as well as doing a partial stove rebuild. Oh and put in hardwood floors in the living room and dining room. But I think my dining room work shop is going to turn into a play pen for the baby. So to answer your question it does look like I will have to move the stove to the garage or barn to rebuild.


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Not wanting to. I was hoping to turn my dining room into a work shop so I can do a complete hearth and chimney rebuild as well as doing a partial stove rebuild. Oh and put in hardwood floors in the living room and dining room. But I think my dining room work shop is going to turn into a play pen for the baby. So to answer your question it does look like I will have to move the stove to the garage or barn to rebuild.



Once you are ready to re-essamble, there are few tricks that will help you


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## jharkin (Dec 16, 2016)

OK, ,I can't believe it. I didn't block the secondary, just the mod to remove the stop so it closes completely. I can't get over how low and slow its burning now.

I reloaded at 9pm on a very big coal bed, prob 3in deep.  Full load of 3yr ash and maple, got it good and hot then shut down. An hour and a half later it's 11f outside and she's cruising at 1060 cat with just a glowing coal bed in the box.

Normally this weather would have the cat temp steadily rising on its way to 1600+.


This is crazy!

Good crazy.

Somebody pinch me out of this dream....


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## Diabel (Dec 16, 2016)

jharkin said:


> OK, ,I can't believe it. I didn't block the secondary, just the mod to remove the stop so it closes completely. I can't get over how low and slow its burning now.
> 
> I reloaded at 9pm on a very big coal bed, prob 3in deep.  Full load of 3yr ash and maple, got it good and hot then shut down. An hour and a half later it's 11f outside and she's cruising at 1060 cat with just a glowing coal bed in the box.
> 
> ...



Pinch Reckless


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## jharkin (Dec 17, 2016)

Overnight it only peaked at 1125..... I've never seen that.


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## jharkin (Dec 17, 2016)

I'm really in disbelief.   I loaded it full last night at 9 and shut down. Overnight it only peaked at 1125.  Woke up at 7 and there was some coals in the box and cat at650.  I opened up the air to let it burn down and now at 7:30 just from the leftover coals the griddle temp came up to 450 and cat is at 850.

The overnight low was around 11 or 12.  In the past it would have took off like a rocket, peaked over 1500 and there wouldn't be much left now.


just wow.







The only sad part is that now I have to let it burn out. We have a crowd of 20 people coming this afternoon wand with the oven going and a big warmup moving in  the stove would be too much.


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## Diabel (Dec 17, 2016)

That pretty much resembles the behavior of mine after the Reckless mod.

As for crowds.....I just open a window or two. 
We have 10 coming tonight and that is what I will do.


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## jharkin (Dec 17, 2016)

Diabel said:


> That pretty much resembles the behavior of mine after the Reckless mod.
> 
> As for crowds.....I just open a window or two.
> We have 10 coming tonight and that is what I will do.



Doesn't work here.  The boss of the house "dislikes" the stove and has declared its not allowed when we have a crowd.


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## trispad (Dec 17, 2016)

I think I may have found the culprit with regards to my high flue temps




The gap between the two metal tabs is the top of the refractory before the smoke gets pulled down into the cat.   Any thoughts on sealing it up? Some stove cement over the whole line?


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## Reckless (Dec 17, 2016)

I was messing with the secondary again and now I have 3/4 blocked with foil and the thermo set to 3 o'clock. Cruising 1350 never peaking above 1500. Tinkering is fun. I'm glad everyone is enjoying the warmth. 


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## Reckless (Dec 17, 2016)

Nevermind crept to 1700 while I wasnt watching. Back to fully blocked secondary. 


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## Excavator (Dec 18, 2016)

I have to restate. I engage cat at 400 griddle temp and when cat probe reaches 800 i turn air down half and then turn air all down at 1000. Might smoke for 15 minutes but my refractory is staying together and no over fire so this is what i plan on staying with. I brushed my liner out last month and it was fine


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 18, 2016)

Excavator said:


> I have to restate. I engage cat at 400 griddle temp and when cat probe reaches 800 i turn air down half and then turn air all down at 1000. Might smoke for 15 minutes but my refractory is staying together and no over fire so this is what i plan on staying with. I brushed my liner out last month and it was fine


I have been trying your method this past week and I have to say it works well. I think 350-400Gt is the magic temp. I'm not completely shut at 1000 however I can't completely shut my primary down. My fire will go out if I do. I think I need to add another 3 feet to my chimney.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 18, 2016)

trispad said:


> I think I may have found the culprit with regards to my high flue temps
> 
> View attachment 190615
> 
> ...


Is the gap to small for gasket rope?  I believe once you put cement on your refractory box is not coming off. It will I guess just with chunks of refractory.


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## trispad (Dec 18, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is the gap to small for gasket rope?  I believe once you put cement on your refractory box is not coming off. It will I guess just with chunks of refractory.


To small for 1/8 gasket. I would say 3/32. The stainless steal gasket looks like it is slightly warped and is flattening the thin ceramic gasket.

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## Excavator (Dec 18, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I have been trying your method this past week and I have to say it works well. I think 350-400Gt is the magic temp. I'm not completely shut at 1000 however I can't completely shut my primary down. My fire will go out if I do. I think I need to add another 3 feet to my chimney.


Yup. My strong draft and insulated liner is making the difference since i installed it plus block off plate. 350 and 400 griddle is max for me and close air down all way in 2 steps keeps in control


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## Reckless (Dec 18, 2016)

I don't start closing primary air till above 1050 and have it shut half at about 1250-1300. After that it just cruises and I adjust for room temp levels. 


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## Dobish (Dec 20, 2016)

this was my chimney the other day.... it was -10 outside, and this was right after a reload....


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## Diabel (Dec 20, 2016)

Was the steam still visible well into the burn?


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## Dobish (Dec 20, 2016)

about 35 seconds after i took that picture, i closed the bypass and about 20 seconds after that all i saw was heat waves...


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## Diabel (Dec 21, 2016)

Here is an update to my secondary air mod:

The cat temp stays nicely around 1200-1300* for the first three hours of the burn, then slowly drops.

I am concerned however with the emissions.
When we had the cold snap I was seeing lots of white smoke-steam out the pipe in the first three hours of the burn. Now that the temps are more human... in the 30s, I still see a bit of white smoke. Did not see this before I did the mod.

I am not sure what to think of it.


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## jharkin (Dec 21, 2016)

I have never seen the "only heat waves" with my stove no matter what I do with it, FWIW.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2016)

My stove pipe sounds like a rain stick when I close the damper.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2016)

Has anyone done the vinegar and boiling water cleaning on their cat?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2016)

I replaced my cat last year. It's a ceramic cat. I feel like I'm getting way to much smoke/steam out of my cap. Even when running 1300-1400 on cat and 450-550 on gt. Flue is usually 200-250. I have 8" pipe and 13' from stove top to cat. I guess it's going to be hard to pin point the issue until I do a rebuild and replace all the gaskets.


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## Dobish (Dec 21, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> My stove pipe sounds like a rain stick when I close the damper.


mine does that every so often too!


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## Diabel (Dec 21, 2016)

Pipe cleaning time for sure boys!!

I am doing my annual pipe cleaning on Friday!!


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## Dobish (Dec 21, 2016)

i did mine in june, and it actually was pretty clean. i will probably get up there this weekend and at least check it out.


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## Diabel (Dec 21, 2016)

I would check it out for sure.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2016)

Suppose to be 37 tomorrow so I think I will skip the morning reload and give the beast a rest so I can run a brush through the pipe. I will finally get a chance to tweak my secondary a little. Going to try 2:30 on the coil. Maybe even do some gasket work on the doors and ash pan. Things I should have done before it got cold.


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## firefighterjake (Dec 21, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> My stove pipe sounds like a rain stick when I close the damper.



Only had that experience in the very first month I was running my stove with less than desirable wood . . . I'm pretty sure the rice crispies falling down the flue pipe was the sound of creosote falling off the pipe.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2016)

firefighterjake said:


> Only had that experience in the very first month I was running my stove with less than desirable wood . . . I'm pretty sure the rice crispies falling down the flue pipe was the sound of creosote falling off the pipe.


Yes I'm sure it is. I have thrown some really slow burns at the stove since the beginning of the season. I'm sure there has been a few questionable pieces of firewood as well that found its way into the firebox.


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## Reckless (Dec 23, 2016)

jharkin said:


> I have never seen the "only heat waves" with my stove no matter what I do with it, FWIW.



90% of the time that's all I get.... A smokey load is a rare occurrence for me. This year I'm burning 15% oak. 


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## Tracks74 (Dec 23, 2016)

Does anyone on this thread own a montepelier? I want to discuss best options for maintaining the fans to reduce noise.
I was able to remove the unit easily. The unit is riveted together and difficult to get at the bearings. I am also interested in other sound reducing ideas for the fan.
Thanks


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## begreen (Dec 23, 2016)

Tracks74 said:


> Does anyone on this thread own a montepelier? I want to discuss best options for maintaining the fans to reduce noise.
> I was able to remove the unit easily. The unit is riveted together and difficult to get at the bearings. I am also interested in other sound reducing ideas for the fan.
> Thanks


Probably worth starting a new thread with Montpelier fan in the title. Here is a thread with some Montpelier owners that may chime in. 
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fan-unit-removal-for-vc-montpelier.147493/


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## Tracks74 (Dec 23, 2016)

Thx Begreen.


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## Dobish (Dec 27, 2016)

Diabel said:


> I would check it out for sure.


i'm glad i went up there. Since it was nice out, I cleaned the chimney.... The cap was pretty disgusting, so I cleaned it out with a brush, shook it around and got it nice and clean. This is what came out of it.





I took a look down the chimney, and this is what I found.


I swept it out, and got it to look like this


I ended up with this much stuff that came down.


I also cleaned out everything in the stove, took out the catalyst. it turns out I get to make a call to VC today, since my 1 year old catalyst has some broken parts....




It turns out I didn't get down far enough (i missed about a foot from the bottom of the stack).

I will be burning hotter for sure, I think I have been cutting off the air a little too soon. I also got a cheapo magnetic thermometer for the stove pipe, and after fidgeting with it for an hour or so, i was able to get it to be pretty comparable to the infared thermometer


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2016)

I cleaned my chimney as well the other day. Also did the ash pan, door and glass gasket.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2016)

Had to run the stove "blind" last night sorta speak. We lost power due to high winds. It was a little strange with out the AT100. Ice had the secondary cover off for awhile now so I would use a mirror and flashlight to see where the shutter was running and sorta guessing from there.


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## Diabel (Dec 27, 2016)

Funny how we rely on that cat meter


----------



## Diabel (Dec 27, 2016)

I did my annual pipe cleaning last Friday. I always do it around mid Dec. as the shoulder season ends and the hot burns begin. I was pleasantly surprised to see about two coffee cups of brown stuff. The cap had some black creo but it brushed easily with a wire brush.

No pics, sorry.


----------



## Diabel (Dec 27, 2016)

Dobish,

Your second pic is a bit alarming to me. Either your wood is subpar or your burning too low.


----------



## Dobish (Dec 27, 2016)

Diabel said:


> Dobish,
> 
> Your second pic is a bit alarming to me. Either your wood is subpar or your burning too low.



everything i've measured has been under 18%, so my guess is I am burning too low.  I  have been burning a lot of elm with the bark on, so that may be adding to it. I plan on burning hotter for sure though. last couple of nights I have actually been able to see the flames above the catalyst.


----------



## Reckless (Dec 28, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Had to run the stove "blind" last night sorta speak. We lost power due to high winds. It was a little strange with out the AT100. Ice had the secondary cover off for awhile now so I would use a mirror and flashlight to see where the shutter was running and sorta guessing from there.



This is the only reason I keep the condor unit around as a back up. I would have to be without electric and generator to break that thing out though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 28, 2016)

Reckless said:


> This is the only reason I keep the condor unit around as a back up. I would have to be without electric and generator to break that thing out though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Smart thinking. I had a condar until I let the magic smoke out of it trying to hook a 12 volt adapter to it. I must have hooked up the wires backwards little an idiot.  It still worked but not right and I could never believe the numbers on the screen anymore.


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## jharkin (Dec 29, 2016)

Reckless said:


> This is the only reason I keep the condor unit around as a back up. I would have to be without electric and generator to break that thing out though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The AT100  takes 12v DC input.    All you need to find is some old power adapter with the same size plug and rig it up to any convenient 12v source - if you have any computer UPSs in the house, a battery backup sump pump, emergency lights, even your car  you can find 12vdc.


In my case I cannibalized an old cordless phone power adapter for the plug and used a small 7Ah AGM battery I had lying around from my RC plane flight box (this is a very common size, used in emergency backup lighting).  Cutoff the power adapter plug and crimp some clips on it to attach the battery and It will run the AT100 for weeks most likely.








RandyBoBandy said:


> Smart thinking. I had a condar until I let the magic smoke out of it trying to hook a 12 volt adapter to it. I must have hooked up the wires backwards little an idiot.  It still worked but not right and I could never believe the numbers on the screen anymore.



The Condar takes 9v input.  Thats probably why 12v burned it up....


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 29, 2016)

jharkin said:


> The AT100  takes 12v DC input.    All you need to find is some old power adapter with the same size plug and rig it up to any convenient 12v source - if you have any computer UPSs in the house, a battery backup sump pump, emergency lights, even your car  you can find 12vdc.
> 
> 
> In my case I cannibalized an old cordless phone power adapter for the plug and used a small 7Ah AGM battery I had lying around from my RC plane flight box (this is a very common size, used in emergency backup lighting).  Cutoff the power adapter plug and crimp some clips on it to attach the battery and It will run the AT100 for weeks most likely.
> ...


Haha. You are correct. Now that I think about it, it makes total sense. Well you win some you loose some I guess.


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## jharkin (Dec 29, 2016)

The secondary mod is still working fantastic about keeping the temps down.... But I am concerned like others about emissions.  Cruising at 1070 cat tonight and there is a lot of smoke outside (not steam).


I think it needs some minimum amount of air to burn it all. Might go back to 3oclock timing but leave the stop (or rather have to figure out how to make a new one since I removed it)


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 30, 2016)

jharkin said:


> The secondary mod is still working fantastic about keeping the temps down.... But I am concerned like others about emissions.  Cruising at 1070 cat tonight and there is a lot of smoke outside (not steam).
> 
> 
> I think it needs some minimum amount of air to burn it all. Might go back to 3oclock timing but leave the stop (or rather have to figure out how to make a new one since I removed it)


I bent a paper clip and put it in the corner opposite the hinge side. Provides much smaller gap than the stock tab.


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## ARucka (Dec 30, 2016)

Good morning Gents.  I have '99 Encore 2550 with a warped upper fireback and combustion throat hood, I ordered the replacement parts from Mountain View Hearth Products (MVHP).  As I am sure you all know, VC does not offer customer service, they say we should contact a dealer for all questions.  So, I emailed MVHP customer service about rebuilding the inside of the stove.

I asked, "I own a Vermont Castings Encore 2550 wood stove. I have ordered parts from you to rebuild part of the fireback. I have followed the instructions to disassemble the fireback. When I did that I noticed a lot of the stove cement had fallen off or is cracked and loose. I have purchased some tubes of stove cement, where do I need to apply the stove cement? Is there a diagram available?"

The reply from MVHP was, "So I did contact our Vermont Castings Tech and he did inform me that there is no “stove cement” other than the gasket cement required for that model of stove. What you are seeing is most likely what they call Manufacturing Seal and is not required in the stove! If you need anything else, feel free to contact us further!"

I received the response from them within 24 hours, which is great.  However, to all of you out there that have done this type of rebuild, does that sound right?  Really, I am not suppose to use an stove cement, at all, just gaskets?


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## Dobish (Dec 30, 2016)

i called the place i bought the stove, and they claim that they have never done a cat warranty for VC.... so they were looking into the process! The warranty department is closed for the week, but they are going to get back to me next week!


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## Reckless (Dec 30, 2016)

ARucka said:


> Good morning Gents.  I have '99 Encore 2550 with a warped upper fireback and combustion throat hood, I ordered the replacement parts from Mountain View Hearth Products (MVHP).  As I am sure you all know, VC does not offer customer service, they say we should contact a dealer for all questions.  So, I emailed MVHP customer service about rebuilding the inside of the stove.
> 
> I asked, "I own a Vermont Castings Encore 2550 wood stove. I have ordered parts from you to rebuild part of the fireback. I have followed the instructions to disassemble the fireback. When I did that I noticed a lot of the stove cement had fallen off or is cracked and loose. I have purchased some tubes of stove cement, where do I need to apply the stove cement? Is there a diagram available?"
> 
> ...



Not sure if you saw this but @jharkin posted all full rebuild thread with links to manuals which should be very useful in your situation.

Encore 2550 rebuild...  start to finish

Ok, so the amount of buildup I got in my chimney last year prompted me to take the stove apart and contemplate a minor rebuild.

To set the background:

- Wood supply is good. Last year I was burning 2-3 year CSS wood, mostly oak maple and some crabapple that I cut myself.

- Stove seemed tight last year and was controllable. No obvious signs of leaks and all the door gaskets good.

- I did get weird catalytic behavior. Sluggish light off on big loads, smoke anytime below 1200F probe temp. I run a steelcat and its warped so Im considering sending it back on warranty.

- You can see there is a lot of black creosote in the firebox, but there was nothing but brown ash in the back of the stove past the catalyst and I was getting good 1100F - 1700F catalyst probe temps, once it lit off! - last year. Typically this stove runs with almost no flame in the main firebox when the cat is engaged however, which is I think why I get firebox buildup.

- Longer term I know the best bet with a VC is to replace it. Financially I'm not in a position to do that this year, but am willing to do a modest investment in parts if I can get it to last a couple more seasons.

- This is not our only source of heat. It gets used mostly on weekends only.

Ok, so to start with I did another good sweeping. I did a late season sweep last year and this time I got about 2 coffee cans of crusty black chips. Probably from only a half cord burning. I installed an outside outlet by the new patio so this time I setup the shop vac outside with a long hose through the window. So much cleaner!



 Here is a summary of the completed project:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...advice-appreciated.112149/page-8#post-1536832

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehearth%2Ecom%2Ftalk%2Findex%2Ephp%3Fposts%2F1490960%2F&share_tid=112149&share_fid=53165&share_type=t&share_pid=1490960


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## Reckless (Dec 30, 2016)

Not sure why it did that but here's the link https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/encore-2550-rebuild-start-to-finish.112149/page-8#post-1536832


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 31 bertram (Dec 31, 2016)

I have an older VC-2550 that I rebuilt a few years ago.  The rebuild was a PITA, but I think it runs better now than when it was new. I added the digital cat probe and I really like it for monitoring what's going on with the cat.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 31, 2016)

31 bertram said:


> I have an older VC-2550 that I rebuilt a few years ago.  The rebuild was a PITA, but I think it runs better now than when it was new. I added the digital cat probe and I really like it for monitoring what's going on with the cat.


A complete rebuild?


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## 31 bertram (Dec 31, 2016)

RandyBoBandy said:


> A complete rebuild?


Yes Sir, I went completely thru it.  But I was able to use most of the older parts without buying new since it was in pretty good shape.  I was always careful not to over fire.  But there was something that I had to bring to a machine shop to fix, just can't remember what it was.


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## Reckless (Jan 2, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> A complete rebuild?



I believe a few of us has now completely rebuilt our stoves, myself included. If you attempt something and need help just post a pic someone will be able to help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Excavator (Jan 2, 2017)

I also rebuilt my 0028 twice now and i blame myself for running too hot before turning air down. I am now in habit of engaging cat at grill temp of 350- 400 and when cat probe at100 reaches 700 i partially close air. When at100 reaches 1000 i am closing air most way. I just dont get anymore runaway or over  fire and liner stays clean


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 2, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I believe a few of us has now completely rebuilt our stoves, myself included. If you attempt something and need help just post a pic someone will be able to help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Once burn season is over my hearth and stove are getting some serious attention. Here is my dilemma however. I put my encore under an existing chimney system. The original homeowner had a Martin industries freestanding fireplace....very scary. So the stack is 8" and about three feet short of 16'. I can buy another 3' section of class A and hit the minimum height for the encore or replace the whole thing with an updated 6". This will then give me the ability to slide what ever stove I want under it down the road. I will rebuild the stove in efforts to get some more mileage out of it but will eventually be replacing it with something the wife will feel confident running as well. Any thoughts?


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## Excavator (Jan 2, 2017)

You know the encore could use 6 inch unless burning with doors open. I always think about replacing my 0028 encore but i have limited height for any thing else. My encore fits with 1 1/2 inch to spare but not easy to find another stove that will fit.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 2, 2017)

Yeah I know I can burn with a six which is nice because most new stoves run a six inch. We do have the fire screen but I believe have only used it once. It just seems like a waste of fuel to burn in fireplace mode.


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## Excavator (Jan 2, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Yeah I know I can burn with a six which is nice because most new stoves run a six inch. We do have the fire screen but I believe have only used it once. It just seems like a waste of fuel to burn in fireplace mode.



I agree. Never use our screen. I could have just went with a 6 inch liner and might still if I ever replace the encore. The old 0028 is working just fine for last few years so for now will leave it be


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 2, 2017)

Excavator said:


> I agree. Never use our screen. I could have just went with a 6 inch liner and might still if I ever replace the encore. The old 0028 is working just fine for last few years so for now will leave it be


How hard was it putting the castings back together when you rebuilt your encore?


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## Excavator (Jan 2, 2017)

Worst part is removing old cement and messy installing new cement. Both times I had to replace the upper and lower fire backs and refractory and again I blame myself for over firing too much as the cause


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 2, 2017)

My hood has a slight warp to it. The lower fire back looks to be straight. The refractory box is showing signs of age. CAT was replaced last year. My stove smokes more than it should for sure so....it's rebuild time. The original owner said he did it two years before I bought it and that was two years ago. I'm a little skeptical on his abilities seeing as how there was no gasket rope on the lower fireback.


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## Excavator (Jan 2, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> My hood has a slight warp to it. The lower fire back looks to be straight. The refractory box is showing signs of age. CAT was replaced last year. My stove smokes more than it should for sure so....it's rebuild time. The original owner said he did it two years before I bought it and that was two years ago. I'm a little skeptical on his abilities seeing as how there was no gasket rope on the lower fireback.


Wow no rope?  The upper and lower firebacks can be removed right through the front as well as the refractory box and cat if you are just going do do only those. At least on my 0028


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## Reckless (Jan 2, 2017)

Excavator said:


> Wow no rope?  The upper and lower firebacks can be removed right through the front as well as the refractory box and cat if you are just going do do only those. At least on my 0028



This is true with the 2500s as well with some shimmy and cursing. I wish they roped the top of the stove instead of cement it would have made these things easier to work on. 


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

well the Top does not HAVE to come off for most part. No movement there and not wearing out..
Some have just added some cement to top with out removing it if you suspect it is sucking air someplace there on top


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## defiant3 (Jan 3, 2017)

Also it's hard to reach the 2 bolts in the rear corners once the upper fireback is in place. Note that on the newer Defiants the top IS gasketed, the bolts are easily accessable, and yes it makes life a lot easier.


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

defiant3 said:


> Also it's hard to reach the 2 bolts in the rear corners once the upper fireback is in place. Note that on the newer Defiants the top IS gasketed, the bolts are easily accessable, and yes it makes life a lot easier.


Good to know


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## jharkin (Jan 3, 2017)

Yeah, the rebuild is not as bad as it will seem at first.  I did a partial (everything but the outer shell) - hardest part is getting the upper out from all the creosote and old cement that will be in the way.

Once its apart, a dremel + a drill with wire brush attachments (you could use an angle grinder but be careful!) make quick work of cleaning everything up.  Once its all clean and assuming the castings are straight it goes back together fairly easily.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Any thoughts on telescoping double wall pipe?


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

this may seem like a silly question, but where are the secondary EPA holes?

My cat temp doesn't rise at all unless the bypass is closed, is this normal?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

When I start a fire from cold I will see the cat temps rise from room temp to about 300*. I don't think you will really see anything past 300* because it is usually time to close the damper at this point. On reloads I will actually see the cat cool off more while I'm waiting for the fresh load to char some and establish good flue temps again. What model is your encore. My 2550 has the EPA holes behind the front legs. They deliver air into the ash pan.


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

i have the 2040 2n1.


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> this may seem like a silly question, but where are the secondary EPA holes?
> 
> My cat temp doesn't rise at all unless the bypass is closed, is this normal?



Yes cat temps dont rise when ligting up stove or cold reload. You will only see cat temps rise after engaged and slow climb at first


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

Excavator said:


> Yes cat temps dont rise when lifgting up stove or cold reload. You will only see cat temps rise after engaged and slow climb at first


that's what I thought, but the other day, we had a friend over who was looking at my flow chart and they said they never flipped the bypass because the cat temp never rose.... i had noticed it, and thought that it was normal but needed a sanity check


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> that's what I thought, but the other day, we had a friend over who was looking at my flow chart and they said they never flipped the bypass because the cat temp never rose.... i had noticed it, and thought that it was normal but needed a sanity check


I dont even look at my cat temps until I close damper (engage cat) at griddle temp of 350 - 400. Then after few minutes the cat temp will slowly move and I have my AT100 alarm set at 700. When cat hits 700 I partially close air supply down and at 900 - 1000 cat temp I have air 80 % closed


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Excavator said:


> Yes cat temps dont rise when ligting up stove or cold reload. You will only see cat temps rise after engaged and slow climb at first


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

i normally check it out just to see how fast it is rising after a reload. I don't have a digital thermometer, since i have no power source anywhere close the the stove. i keep thinking about adding an outlet, but I'm also pretty sure my wife would not want to have an AT100 on our wall where she can see it. She was telling me the other day that she wanted me to move the flue thermometer to the back or side where she can't see it.


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

Yes I am old school with my 0028 lol


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> View attachment 191853



thanks! I don't really think I need to limit the airflow, but I wanted to know what was happening.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> i normally check it out just to see how fast it is rising after a reload. I don't have a digital thermometer, since i have no power source anywhere close the the stove. i keep thinking about adding an outlet, but I'm also pretty sure my wife would not want to have an AT100 on our wall where she can see it. She was telling me the other day that she wanted me to move the flue thermometer to the back or side where she can't see it.


I can see where your wife is coming from. I wasn't a fan of seeing the At100 at first but I got over it quick. I would rather know what's going on in the cat I guess. You can try and tuck it behind the back legs so it is not so noticeable


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> thanks! I don't really think I need to limit the airflow, but I wanted to know what was happening.


No problem. There is a ton of info in past VC threads. It can be rather time consuming reading through all of them though.


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I can see where your wife is coming from. I wasn't a fan of seeing the At100 at first but I got over it quick. I would rather know what's going on in the cat I guess. You can try and tuck it behind the back legs so it is not so noticeable



My at100 is my life line as we heat our house with wood 24/7. I cant remember last time i looked at my gas furnace thermostat


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

Excavator said:


> My at100 is my life line as we heat our house with wood 24/7. I cant remember last time i looked at my gas furnace thermostat



i haven't seen my cat get above 1300 as of yet....


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> i haven't seen my cat get above 1300 as of yet....



thats a GOOD thing. I had too many run aways up to 1800 cause I was not turning air down soon enough. I was too worried about smoke out chimney. Now I keep it under control


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## Diabel (Jan 3, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Any thoughts on telescoping double wall pipe?



I have one. Stays very clean. Experts here will recommend it for sure!


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## Diabel (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> this may seem like a silly question, but where are the secondary EPA holes?
> 
> My cat temp doesn't rise at all unless the bypass is closed, is this normal?



EPA holes should be on the bottom front corners of the stove, left and right sides of the ash pan.

Same here if the bypass is open the cat will pretty much stay around 150*


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Excavator said:


> My at100 is my life line as we heat our house with wood 24/7. I cant remember last time i looked at my gas furnace thermostat


I wish I could heat 24/7 but it's hard in these mild temps. This stove will heat us out of the house if I reload on coals when it's above 30 outside.


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I wish I could heat 24/7 but it's hard in these mild temps. This stove will heat us out of the house if I reload on coals when it's above 30 outside.


you should try using sub-par drafts & wood, terrible insulation, awful floor plan layouts and a dog that likes to go in and out 50000 times a day, I have found that is a good way to burn 24/7 and still need to supplement with the furnace first thing in the morning.


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## Excavator (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> you should try using sub-par drafts & wood, terrible insulation, awful floor plan layouts and a dog that likes to go in and out 50000 times a day, I have found that is a good way to burn 24/7 and still need to supplement with the furnace first thing in the morning.


yep 3 dogs here and revolving door with wife home to feed stove and then feed dogs lol


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2017)

Dobish said:


> you should try using sub-par drafts & wood, terrible insulation, awful floor plan layouts and a dog that likes to go in and out 50000 times a day, I have found that is a good way to burn 24/7 and still need to supplement with the furnace first thing in the morning.


I'm with you on the less than great draft


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## Dobish (Jan 4, 2017)

I have a new cat coming at the end of the month, no charge. I just have to go to my dealer and swap it out when it gets in.

Another question for the masses... do people remove the bottom heat shield? it seems like if i were to remove it, i would be able to heat up the tile underneath a little bit quicker and it would radiate a bit more heat....


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## Diabel (Jan 4, 2017)

Dobish said:


> I have a new cat coming at the end of the month, no charge. I just have to go to my dealer and swap it out when it gets in.
> 
> Another question for the masses... do people remove the bottom heat shield? it seems like if i were to remove it, i would be able to heat up the tile underneath a little bit quicker and it would radiate a bit more heat....



I would not remove it.
Unless you have a basement install with no wood close by.


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## Dobish (Jan 4, 2017)

Diabel said:


> I would not remove it.
> Unless you have a basement install with no wood close by.


it is a basement install, poreclain tile over concrete. nearest wood is on a wall a few feet away.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 4, 2017)

Dobish said:


> I have a new cat coming at the end of the month, no charge. I just have to go to my dealer and swap it out when it gets in.
> 
> Another question for the masses... do people remove the bottom heat shield? it seems like if i were to remove it, i would be able to heat up the tile underneath a little bit quicker and it would radiate a bit more heat....


What's wrong with your current Cat?


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## Diabel (Jan 4, 2017)

Dobish said:


> it is a basement install, poreclain tile over concrete. nearest wood is on a wall a few feet away.



I don't want to say "you good to go" since I am not a professional. Maybe a new thread in the general forum will provide opinion from experts like webby...etc


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## Dobish (Jan 5, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> What's wrong with your current Cat?


its missing a few things, and it is cracked


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 5, 2017)

Dobish said:


> its missing a few things, and it is cracked
> View attachment 191989


That sucks. At least you are getting a new one for free.


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## trispad (Jan 5, 2017)

Came across this and thought others here could use it. A complete list of gaskets for all VC models.


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## 31 bertram (Jan 7, 2017)

Got the 2550 running on all cylinders here along the Gulf Coast.  Supposed to be in the low 20's by morning.  I love my woodstove.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 12, 2017)

My new 2040 that previously would maintain a 400 deg stove top temp for hours will no longer perform that. A full load burns off in 6 hours with stove top temp of 550-625 with air control on low. I have done a smoke stick can't find a source of uncontrolled air. I think it started doing this last week when I got busy for a few minutes and closed damper at 650 deg stove top and put it on low to bring it down. Hasn't been the same since. I don't see any signs of warping.
Any tips or tricks? I need my old stove back I don't trust it anymore.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> A full load burns off in 6 hours with stove top temp of 550-625 with air control on low.



This is pretty average for this stove.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 12, 2017)

Diabel said:


> This is pretty average for this stove.


You see 600' midway through burn cycle on low?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

Gaskets maybe. Or an obstruction with the primary air inlet. Do you have any control?


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> You see 600' midway through burn cycle on low?


600 might be a bit high, but 500-550 yup. The magnetic thermo might be off too....

But if you have no control over the stove. That is, set fully closed and you see lots of flame in the box, then a leaking gasket somewhere for sure! 
First one to check would be the ash pan.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 12, 2017)

Thanks for the help guys.

I have moderate to good flame control but coals tend to glow brighter than before... don't get to tell the stove top temp what to do like I was able previously, I marveled at the control I had before.   


 Checked the primary air function it is behaving and closing completely
I smoke penned the front doors and ash pan, no draw but I'll adjust them tighter. After I had closed the damper that time it got hot there was a louder pop/click than the stove usually makes from time to time  which led me to believe I had cracked something or popped a piece of stove cement out. I peeked around the inside the stove the best I could didn't see anything out of place although I am new to this stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

I wouldn't think closing damper at 650 would crack anything. 650 is warm for sure but not nuclear reactor warm.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

Once stove cold, do the dollar test on the damper.
Don't forget, the colder outside.. the stronger the stove will draw.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 12, 2017)

Yeah I thought the same thing as far as temp, the book says don't make her glow!   Im down to coals I'll run her down the rest of today and check the damper gasket this eve.  

I've got 25 ft 6" SS liner in prefab chimney outside air temps  are mid 20's. We were -10 deg 3 weeks ago and I could control it better. 

Thanks for the input fellas.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> You see 600' midway through burn cycle on low?



Three hours into the burn:

Stove top 550
Flue probe 300
Cat probe 1350

Wisps of blue flame in the firebox


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

Diabel said:


> Three hours into the burn:
> 
> Stove top 550
> Flue probe 300
> ...


Sounds like a good burn.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Sounds like a good burn.




Thank to EAB. Ash is such a nice wood to burn.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

I had a really good burn last night in my defiant. Cat peaked at about 1625. Cruised real well. Then this morning on my reload the cat raced up to 1100 then dropped to 875 then climbed back up to 1050 then dropped to 775 then went back up and dropped again. Finally after watching it do this for awhile it settled in at 1300. Wired. Don't know what to make of it.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

I will get that kind of behavior sometimes on windy days. Also, when was the last time you removed the hood and looked at the cat? 

Anytime my stove is cold (not very often lately), I will take a peak at the cat. Take a small brush with soft bristles and gently run it across the top of the cat. There is always a bit of ash on top of the cat.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

I am currently letting the stove go cold so I can give the cat a cleaning.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

Randy

In your avatar, are the splits resting against your stove (leg)?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

Yeah just on the leg and staked in a pyramid away from the side of the stove. A bit on the close side.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

I would say.....a bit close!!


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 12, 2017)

This pic was taken some time ago and wood is no longer set there. Due to obvious reasons.


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## Diabel (Jan 12, 2017)

Nice.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 14, 2017)

My stove is still trying to destruct itself.
I have a marker on my thermostat, the marker does read 30-40 deg high. 

All gaskets are good. Thermostat assembly operates correctly. This was on low and towards the later half of the burn cycle. Also the cat is operating much warmer and there's an audible rumble, I don't have the AT100 probe but do have factory probe its reading upper 1/3 to 1/4 during burn cycle.

Any of you ever pressurize your stove to seek out leaks?  
I've got to nail this down or it's time to call my dealer and see if this could
be a warranty matter. The stove was installed mid November.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> My stove is still trying to destruct itself.
> I have a marker on my thermostat, the marker does read 30-40 deg high.
> 
> All gaskets are good. Thermostat assembly operates correctly. This was on low and towards the later half of the burn cycle. Also the cat is operating much warmer and there's an audible rumble, I don't have the AT100 probe but do have factory probe its reading upper 1/3 to 1/4 during burn cycle.
> ...


Can you try putting a very bright light in the stove and turn all the lights off?  Obviously the stove has to be cold and it has to be night time. I have also read on here about people putting a "smoke stick" in their stove to check for leaks. I don't exactly know what it is or where you obtain one. I sure someone here does however.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 14, 2017)

May try the light trick tonight. I may block everything off and ignite a nice pile of red oak kindling and pump it full of smoke that has a good smell to it. Gotta figure this issue out, I hate flipping the switch on the house thermostat.


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## Diabel (Jan 14, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> My stove is still trying to destruct itself.
> I have a marker on my thermostat, the marker does read 30-40 deg high.
> 
> All gaskets are good. Thermostat assembly operates correctly. This was on low and towards the later half of the burn cycle. Also the cat is operating much warmer and there's an audible rumble, I don't have the AT100 probe but do have factory probe its reading upper 1/3 to 1/4 during burn cycle.
> ...



You can not pressurize this stove. 750 is indeed high.
What do you mean 1/3 to 1/4......


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## BronYrAur (Jan 14, 2017)

Diabel said:


> You can not pressurize this stove. 750 is indeed high.
> What do you mean 1/3 to 1/4......


The factory temperature probe for the catalyst reads in the upper 1/3 to 1/4 of the spectrum which is much higher than previously.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 15, 2017)

@BronYrAur any progress?


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## BronYrAur (Jan 15, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> @BronYrAur any progress?



Smoke and light test yielded negative results. I was intrigued when using the light that there is an air inlet above the primary air that feeds the catalyst, I could see light coming through out the rear of the stove. Does this secondary air inlet have any regulation? 

I am calling my local HVAC I bought it from tomorrow to see if they have a smoke bomb I can try, wasn't able to pump it full as smoke like I wanted. I'm hoping he has some good input and goes the extra mile to get this stove back in service. 

The stove is cold and so is the air outside tonight.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> Smoke and light test yielded negative results. I was intrigued when using the light that there is an air inlet above the primary air that feeds the catalyst, I could see light coming through out the rear of the stove. Does this secondary air inlet have any regulation?
> 
> I am calling my local HVAC I bought it from tomorrow to see if they have a smoke bomb I can try, wasn't able to pump it full as smoke like I wanted. I'm hoping he has some good input and goes the extra mile to get this stove back in service.
> 
> The stove is cold and so is the air outside tonight.


If the stove design is the same as my 2550 there should be a shutter connected to a coil. As the stove heats up the coil expands and shuts the shutter regulating the secondary air.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2017)

How old is the stove?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2017)

He said it's a new 2040. I just tried looking at a parts diagram but I wasn't getting much luck with the particular website I was on.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2017)

I am pretty sure the 2040 has the same thermostatic coil and the two EPA holes at the front. Just like the 2550. 

I was not sure exactly what he meant regarding the 1/3 and 1/4 on the cat probe.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2017)

Dobish said:


> remove the bottom heat shield?


I'd leave the shield on, to keep the heat in the stove and room as much as possible instead of heating concrete and dirt...


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## Dobish (Jan 16, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> I'd leave the shield on, to keep the heat in the stove and room as much as possible instead of heating concrete and dirt...



i am going to leave it, but my original thought is that since i have a big area of ceramic tile, it might heat up and radiate a bit more. Once the floor is warmed up, it is really nice 

i told my wife that when we redo the bathroom, we are going to do radiant heat flooring....


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2017)

Dobish said:


> i am going to leave it, but my original thought is that since i have a big area of ceramic tile, it might heat up and radiate a bit more. Once the floor is warmed up, it is really nice


Well yeah, a warm floor is nice, but there is going to be some heat lost to the outdoors...


Diabel said:


> I was not sure exactly what he meant regarding the 1/3 and 1/4 on the cat probe.


I'm guessing the needle was 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the top of the scale?


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Well yeah, a warm floor is nice, but there is going to be some heat lost to the outdoors...
> I'm guessing the needle was 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the top of the scale?



That would make sense as for the needle.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> I am calling my local HVAC I bought it from tomorrow to see if they have a smoke bomb I can try, wasn't able to pump it full as smoke like I wanted.


I would go around the outside of the stove along seams with an incense stick when the stove is running, and see if smoke is being pulled into the stove anywhere.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> I would go around the outside of the stove along seams with an incense stick when the stove is running, and see if smoke is being pulled into the stove anywhere.




That is what I would do. But I think this is a new stove.


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## DUMF (Jan 16, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Can you try putting a very bright light in the stove and turn all the lights off?  Obviously the stove has to be cold and it has to be night time. I have also read on here about people putting a "smoke stick" in their stove to check for leaks. I don't exactly know what it is or where you obtain one. I sure someone here does however.



VC cat stoves are unfortunately prone to run too hot with ANY leakage. It is just how they were engineered.
To find an air leak in the casts or gaskets, or in the ash pan assembly attachment, use a *SMOKE PELLET*. They are available from a good stove shop or online, or maybe fire depts ( Jake ? ) 
First block off the flue ( the attorney  says: " Extinguish the fire" (sic ) ).
Light the smoke pellet ( attorney also says : "vent room" ).
The smoke pellets are cone shaped, about a couple of inches tall, and do produce mucho smoke.
The incense sticks or light will not always show leaks.

How'd I do ?


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## Dobish (Jan 16, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> Well yeah, a warm floor is nice, but there is going to be some heat lost to the outdoors...


I think the door helps with that too


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2017)

Parts list on pg. 36  http://downloads.hearthnhome.com/installManuals/30005295 Encore FlexBurn_23.pdf


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## Woody Stover (Jan 16, 2017)

Diabel said:


> That is what I would do. But I think this is a new stove.


_Something_ changed since he got it, as he was able to run lower until recently...


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2017)

He should plug one or both of the EPA (locate them first) and see if the stovetop temps are more controllable. If so, then go krazy with re-gasketing!!


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## BronYrAur (Jan 16, 2017)

I talked to my stove dealer, he does not have complete knowledge on the stove, told me I shouldn't be running with the cat engaged consistently because it creates a large amount of heat and he thought that was my problem and also asked if I had the flappers closed on the side of the stove that let air in. 
Filled him in on the operation of the stove and the details on how it used to run.
  Called him this morning with my problems he was going to do his research and print me a service manual, didn't have time with work to go and pick it up. Ill be at his door tomorrow morning. 

I asked about the inert smoke emitters he doesn't have them, called several other hvac companies nobody does. I'm going to order a pack of them tonight.

And yes when I was talking about the catalyst probe the needle was on the high side of the gauge and cat operation quite audible which was not the case prior. Maybe my secondary isn't closing correctly? I didn't know it was regulated.  Also I did try incense stick and also a lighter, no luck.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 17, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> when I was talking about the catalyst probe the needle was on the high side of the gauge and cat operation quite audible which was not the case prior. Maybe my secondary isn't closing correctly? I didn't know it was regulated.  Also I did try incense stick and also a lighter, no luck.


I think that "rumble" is often heard when the re-burn gets rolling good.
Strange that you can't find any additional air being drawn in.
Have you got some bigger splits to burn? They should result in slower, more controlled gassing of the load. What split size have you been using?


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## Excavator (Jan 17, 2017)

Yes try bigger splits on reload. I do hear a rumble on my old 028 encore if reloading with smaller splits with a lot of hot coals and let it get too hot before turning down air


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## BronYrAur (Jan 17, 2017)

I use larger splits whenever I can, this isn't a fuel issue. I burn primarily red and white oak with occasional shag bark hickory I harvest on our farms. 

The dealer seems to think there is no service manual for the stove, I disagree. I can find a service manual for a 0028 online.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 17, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> I use larger splits whenever I can, this isn't a fuel issue. I burn primarily red and white oak with occasional shag bark hickory


OK. Dense woods like that are less likely to gas too fast at the beginning of the burn, even if the splits aren't huge.





> The dealer seems to think there is no service manual for the stove, I disagree.


I put a link in post #244...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hello to all the VC owners here.. Its been a pleasure to read and get some valuable information regarding our stoves. I have finally joined the club here.. I have an encore 2040


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## Dobish (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hello to all the VC owners here.. Its been a pleasure to read and get some valuable information regarding our stoves. I have finally joined the club here.. I have an encore 2040


welcome!


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## Diabel (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hello to all the VC owners here.. Its been a pleasure to read and get some valuable information regarding our stoves. I have finally joined the club here.. I have an encore 2040


Cheers!!


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hello to all the VC owners here.. Its been a pleasure to read and get some valuable information regarding our stoves. I have finally joined the club here.. I have an encore 2040


Good deal!  Welcome, how do you like it so far?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 19, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Good deal!  Welcome, how do you like it so far?


Love it.. I have been heating my house with it pretty easy to operate  I got it this past october. My house has never been so warm and looked so good doing it... so far i have spent 75 buckes heating my house and all of that was prior to stove installation while the house was still under construction


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 19, 2017)

I do have 1 question I am looking for an aftermarket cat probe with the actual temps written on it.. any ideas of where to hook up with one..


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## BronYrAur (Jan 19, 2017)

Welcome, I'm new as well. Good group of guys in here who are enthusiastic about their VC stoves.


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## Dobish (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Love it.. I have been heating my house with it pretty easy to operate  I got it this past october. My house has never been so warm and looked so good doing it... so far i have spent 75 buckes heating my house and all of that was prior to stove installation while the house was still under construction



as a reference, the one that came with the stove is roughly 700 on the low end and 1600 on the high end... lots of folks going with the AT100


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## Diabel (Jan 19, 2017)

So, yesterday I was trying to force one of "uglies" piece with sharp edges and pulled loose the griddle gasket (I was using a regular not the steel covered one). No big deal, I placed the gasket gently back in its groove with my fingers, closed the griddle, stove behaved normally.

I decided not to reload for the night (it has been warm here as well 35-40s). This morning I cleaned the stove, emptied the ash, brushed the cat etc. and re-glued the gasket using some very old (clear) gasket cement. 

Started the fire around 2:30pm, everything seemed normal but at one point the cement started to bubble and it lifted the left side of the griddle up by about 1/8 of an inch!! I can see the fire through the gap!! Definitely a massive air leak, considerable flame in the firebox, cat temp ok around 1400, but flue at 500 and stovetop at 650!! Very unorthodox for this stove.

I will let it go out and tomorrow pick up some new gasket and a new tube of cement, clean the groove and install the new gasket.

Any idea what is the length and thickness i need for the griddle gasket (did not take notes when rebuilding)....


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## Dobish (Jan 19, 2017)

trispad said:


> Came across this and thought others here could use it. A complete list of gaskets for all VC models.



post #203 had a full list


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## Diabel (Jan 19, 2017)

Thanks Dobish.

I took a pic of that list this time....


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dobish said:


> as a reference, the one that came with the stove is roughly 700 on the low end and 1600 on the high end... lots of folks going with the AT100


Thanks for the reply... i hit google and no go.. is there a manufacturer or something that i can add to the serch to order this item
Thanks


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## Diabel (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thanks for the reply... i hit google and no go.. is there a manufacturer or something that i can add to the serch to order this item
> Thanks



Auber at100


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Love it.. I have been heating my house with it pretty easy to operate  I got it this past october. My house has never been so warm and looked so good doing it... so far i have spent 75 buckes heating my house and all of that was prior to stove installation while the house was still under construction


Do yourself a favor and get a digital cat probe.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 19, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Do yourself a favor and get a digital cat probe.


Thanks for the reply.. soooooo why do i want a digital cat probe .what is the advantages and what do you guys think are the better manufacturers
Thanks


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2017)

Auber instruments is the manufacturer. The model is the AT100. It will give you real time temps. When my stove is cold it still reads 68 degrees. The display is always on due to it's a/c plug that comes with the it. You can set two alarms one to remind you that you closed the damper and the  cat temps are climbing. Mine is set at 900 degrees. There are times I close the damper and walk away and forget about the stove. The alarm will remind me to go chop the air when the cat temps are climbing. The second alarm is there to warn you when cat temps are getting to high. My second alarm is set at 1600. You really don't want your cat to blaze away at 1700 degrees for to long. It could and probably will shorten the life of it. I would say the sweet spot is between 1350 and 1500. This sweet little thermo is also only 41 bucks. I think the condar goes for over 100 and doesn't have any of these cool features. You should really read through the past few years of the VC owners threads. All kinds of info on how to run your stove efficiently and safely. Even some mods that we have been experimenting with.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> Welcome, I'm new as well. Good group of guys in here who are enthusiastic about their VC stoves.


Where are you at with your stove?  Any progress?


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## Excavator (Jan 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thanks for the reply.. soooooo why do i want a digital cat probe .what is the advantages and what do you guys think are the better manufacturers
> Thanks



There is nothing better then a digital and the at100 is the one of choice. When I am in cat mode and waiting for the temps to climb up to around 800 I can HEAR the alarm from other room or if in same room on couch I can se the numbers climb as the at100 numbers are always visible where as the condar the number display shuts off after a minute or so and no alarm


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 20, 2017)

Giuys.... thanks for all the info.. i will order on up.. i was already on the site but, it talks about all kinda options of probs... which one goes in the 2040
Is there a youtube video of installation or it just slides in and no mods...


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

I haven't seen a 2040 in person but the back of your stove should have a plug or bolt just above the secondary cover. Take that out and use a 1/4" drill bit and by hand (no drill) gently drill a hole in the refractory box. Slide probe in and done. Im using my leftover condar probe so I don't have an auber probe. Diabel is using the 6" 2000 degree limit probe from auber. Buy the probe before you drill a hole. I'm not sure of the diameter of the auber probe.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I haven't seen a 2040 in person but the back of your stove should have a plug or bolt just above the secondary cover. Take that out and use a 1/4" drill bit and by hand (no drill) gently drill a hole in the refractory box. Slide probe in and done. Im using my leftover condar probe so I don't have an auber probe. Diabel is using the 6" 2000 degree limit probe from auber. Buy the probe before you drill a hole. I'm not sure of the diameter of the auber probe.



So this dose not slide into the existing cat probe hole in the back of the stove. Dose the existing probe stay in.. if i am understanding. . I am to remove a bolt in the back.. drill the refractory  and just slide it in. The hole should be tight to the probe and no sealant will be needed..


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## Diabel (Jan 20, 2017)

If you have an easy access to the back of the stove, this task should not take you more than 15min.


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## Diabel (Jan 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So this dose not slide into the existing cat probe hole in the back of the stove. Dose the existing probe stay in.. if i am understanding. . I am to remove a bolt in the back.. drill the refractory  and just slide it in. The hole should be tight to the probe and no sealant will be needed..



If your stove came with a cat probe installed, then the probe from the at100 will simply slide into that same hole.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So this dose not slide into the existing cat probe hole in the back of the stove. Dose the existing probe stay in.. if i am understanding. . I am to remove a bolt in the back.. drill the refractory  and just slide it in. The hole should be tight to the probe and no sealant will be needed..


Yeah just use the existing cat probe hole.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So this dose not slide into the existing cat probe hole in the back of the stove. Dose the existing probe stay in.. if i am understanding. . I am to remove a bolt in the back.. drill the refractory  and just slide it in. The hole should be tight to the probe and no sealant will be needed..


I used a little stove cement to help seal and hold it in place. Also used a clip to hold the wire to the secondary cover.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 20, 2017)

Diabel said:


> So, yesterday I was trying to force one of "uglies" piece with sharp edges and pulled loose the griddle gasket (I was using a regular not the steel covered one). No big deal, I placed the gasket gently back in its groove with my fingers, closed the griddle, stove behaved normally.
> 
> I decided not to reload for the night (it has been warm here as well 35-40s). This morning I cleaned the stove, emptied the ash, brushed the cat etc. and re-glued the gasket using some very old (clear) gasket cement.
> 
> ...


I just did my griddle top the other day. I did use the wire gasket that is speced. So far so good. Haven't had a chance to really load the stove up though. It's been very mild and rainy here. I also moved the GT thermo to the top of the stove between the flue collar and GT for shi$! And giggles. Jury is still out on if I like it better there or not.


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## Diabel (Jan 20, 2017)

I stopped looking at the stovetop thermo.
As long as my cat probe sits at 1200-1400,
Flue probe 300-400 then I know that the stovetop wil be somewhere between 450-550

The other day it was an anomaly!!


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## BronYrAur (Jan 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Where are you at with your stove?  Any progress?



No progress this week, smoke bombs showed up in the mail today, going to bomb my stove tomorrow and find where my air is coming in at.

My dealer is under the impression that there is no service manual, I called
The distributor they get the stove from and they promptly emailed my the Service manual for the 2040. Anyone that would like it get your email to me. 

The manual describes tear down procedures quite well,  I do wish it had a troubleshooting section for the layman. However that would make things easier and we don't necessarily want that.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 20, 2017)

Thanks to all my vc brothers for the info.. i will order one up and slide it into the existing opening..this is why i feel this site is the best

BRON its cool with me if you email the info you got.. i really dont have anything on it and one day... probably going to use it.. i am running the S#*T out of this thing
 AGAIN thanks for all the input verry appreciated


----------



## BronYrAur (Jan 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thanks to all my vc brothers for the info.. i will order one up and slide it into the existing opening..this is why i feel this site is the best
> 
> BRON its cool with me if you email the info you got.. i really dont have anything on it and one day... probably going to use it.. i am running the S#*T out of this thing
> AGAIN thanks for all the input verry appreciated


Shoot me your email. Get your hands on the regular owners manual, you can get it on the vc site. Run the hell out of it ! But follow the temp guideline of no extended period of stove top temp 650 or above.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 21, 2017)

BronYrAur said:


> Shoot me your email. Get your hands on the regular owners manual, you can get it on the vc site. Run the hell out of it ! But follow the temp guideline of no extended period of stove top temp 650 or above.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 21, 2017)

I am trying to figure out how i pm you.. i dont see an icon for it.. or done one post information on the open site


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 22, 2017)

Ok.. soo cleaning the stove today the cat slipped in my hand and long story short i broke it and now need to replace it.. is there a quality aftermarket one.. what am i looking for in a replacement .. Do i have to go to VC or is there a better place and better kind


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## trispad (Jan 22, 2017)

You can buy them on Amazon from Condor (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SYYE8NE/?tag=hearthamazon-20) or from Firecat (http://www.firecatcombustors.com/ACI-67C-p/wa-4152000893.htm).


Edit: These are for the new 2n1 models. 1975/2040.


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## BronYrAur (Jan 25, 2017)

Still troubleshooting.. anyone here know how to test the secondary air regulator function?


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## trispad (Jan 25, 2017)

I do not believe there is a mechanism that actually regulates the secondary air in the 2n1 stoves. Only the primary air is regulated.


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## Dobish (Jan 26, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Ok.. soo cleaning the stove today the cat slipped in my hand and long story short i broke it and now need to replace it.. is there a quality aftermarket one.. what am i looking for in a replacement .. Do i have to go to VC or is there a better place and better kind


they do have a warranty replacement program.....


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## trispad (Feb 6, 2017)

Has anyone with a 2n1 re-gasketed their doors/glass with RTV high temp. silicone? If so, how did it go? Any reason to not use it?


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## Diabel (Feb 6, 2017)

trispad said:


> Has anyone with a 2n1 re-gasketed their doors/glass with RTV high temp. silicone? If so, how did it go? Any reason to not use it?



I personally would use a regular gasket cement. 
The silicone is a pain to clean next time you need to regasket!


----------



## Reckless (Feb 7, 2017)

Hope all is warm with you guys. I still have the secondary blocked and all is great. 1200-1350 on the cat, stove room 75 with the rest of the house is 65-70. Never thought this stove could heat 2000 sq ft and it's really got me questioning my decision to replace it next year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Feb 7, 2017)

all is warm, but the stove is cold. its been warm here the last week (in the 60's). New cat came in today, so i'm glad I will be able to swap it out when the weather is warm!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 7, 2017)

Reckless said:


> Hope all is warm with you guys. I still have the secondary blocked and all is great. 1200-1350 on the cat, stove room 75 with the rest of the house is 65-70. Never thought this stove could heat 2000 sq ft and it's really got me questioning my decision to replace it next year.
> How dose one block off the secondary... what is the advantages of doing this..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 7, 2017)

How do you block off the secondary  and what is the advantages of doing that


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## Woody Stover (Feb 7, 2017)

trispad said:


> Has anyone with a 2n1 re-gasketed their doors/glass with RTV high temp. silicone? If so, how did it go? Any reason to not use it?


I'm guessing they didn't use silicone from the factory, then? The Buck did, so I continued. I used the copper high-temp stuff, good to 650 intermittent. I think it will depend on the stove design, as to weather it will work or not. On the Buck, the door frame was well-shielded from direct radiation from the flames/coals, since the opening was a little smaller than the door frame. I've seen other high-temp silicone...Firemaster High-temp silicone 'M230', and some others.


Diabel said:


> The silicone is a pain to clean next time you need to regasket!


I just used an angle grinder, and it made pretty short work of it....just a little silicone left in the corners.


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## Reckless (Feb 8, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> How do you block off the secondary  and what is the advantages of doing that



This method only works depending on how well your stove drafts, YMMV. I removed the door and arm from the secondary air intake then I folded tin foil to the exact opening size and pushed it in the hole so it was flush. I then replaced the door so it covered the tin foil filled opening and tightened it so it wouldn't move and left the arm to the coil disconnected. 

This cuts off the secondary oxygen to the cat, especially when the temps are climbing to high. I found that even when the secondary door was fully closed my cat temps would still climb to the danger zone by sucking oxygen through the gaps of the closed door . I now have much better control and can really dial the stove in.


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## Ladd (Feb 8, 2017)

I have a Vermont Castings Encore Defiant (installed early 1991) and due to several mistaken over-firings over the years [two in the last month :-( ], it is now time to replace the lower fireback. I’m hoping that I don’t have to also replace the refractory assembly, but that’s a distinct possibility as when viewing from the catalytic combustor bay in the back, it appears that the top near the where the bottom of the catalytic converter rests is bent towards the back of the stove.

The catalytic combustor itself seems to be in good shape as does the refractory cover that goes between it and the access cover on the back of the stove.

I think that if I only need to replace the lower fireback, I’ll probably also need four kaowool pads for the bottom and some 5/16” medium density gasket rope for the sides of the fireback and some stove cement. Is that it?

If I *do* need to replace the refractory assembly, other than extra lengths of 5/16” gasket rope and stove cement to  re-install the back of the stove, am I going to need anything else?

As long as I’m in there, what else should I check and/or replace?

Will I be able to see the heat exchanger from the inside when I remove the lower fireback?


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## Excavator (Feb 13, 2017)

Ladd said:


> I have a Vermont Castings Encore Defiant (installed early 1991) and due to several mistaken over-firings over the years [two in the last month :-( ], it is now time to replace the lower fireback. I’m hoping that I don’t have to also replace the refractory assembly, but that’s a distinct possibility as when viewing from the catalytic combustor bay in the back, it appears that the top near the where the bottom of the catalytic converter rests is bent towards the back of the stove.
> 
> The catalytic combustor itself seems to be in good shape as does the refractory cover that goes between it and the access cover on the back of the stove.
> 
> ...



I replaced my upper and lower fireback and the refractory all at same time with this kit. I did it all from the front.

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/65...ont-Castings-Defiant-Encore-Fireback-Kit.html


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## Ladd (Feb 13, 2017)

Excavator said:


> I replaced my upper and lower fireback and the refractory all at same time with this kit. I did it all from the front.
> 
> http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/65...ont-Castings-Defiant-Encore-Fireback-Kit.html


I don't really need to replace the upper fireback (as far as I know), but it's worth the cost to be able to replace everything from the front. Your stove has the catalytic converter access from the rear?


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## Excavator (Feb 13, 2017)

Yes cat comes out the back


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## Excavator (Feb 13, 2017)

Excavator said:


> Yes cat comes out the back


Mine is 1989. Model 0028
Defiant encore


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## Dobish (Feb 13, 2017)

it sure felt good to have the stove going again... got the stove room to 78 yesterday and I wasn't even trying


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## Ladd (Feb 13, 2017)

A few minutes on the Internet has that kit's price down to $486 delivered. I think that's the route I'm going to go.

Anything else to check or automatically replace as long as I'm in there?


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## Excavator (Feb 14, 2017)

Ladd said:


> A few minutes on the Internet has that kit's price down to $486 delivered. I think that's the route I'm going to go.
> 
> Anything else to check or automatically replace as long as I'm in there?


might need spare stove bolts if any break but they are tough bolys and dont break easy


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## Ladd (Feb 14, 2017)

Excavator said:


> might need spare stove bolts if any break but they are tough bolys and dont break easy


Good tip about the bolts; I hadn't thought about them specifically for the some-time-this-spring rebuild. I'll shoot some penetrating oil on them the day before I try to back them out.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 14, 2017)

Strange. I haven't received any notification of new posts since Jan 20th. Glad to hear everyone is still burning good. Bron, how you making out with your stove?


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## Reckless (Mar 6, 2017)

Very quiet room this year must be the mild winter...


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## CapeCodWood (Mar 6, 2017)

Hi I have a small home (1,100sq feet) we have a Jotul stove now that is very small. The stove is in the living room with cathedral ceilings. My home is a reverse salt box. The stove we have now will heat the house if someone is home all day to feed the thing. The problem is the size of it. I have to cut the wood real small and I can barely fit 3 logs in there so it will not burn very long. I found a really good deal on a newer (2011) Vermont castings encore 2040. It says that it will heat up to 1800 square feet, do you think this stove would blow us out of the house. I like having the house warm in the winter I am just tired of having to start a fire from scratch with no coals every time, and the house cooling down during the day to where the heat turns on. Thank you.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2017)

With the encore being a cat stove you can run it pretty low and still be clean. My house is 1400 square and if I let it the stove, it will burn us out in mild weather. Just have to learn to build smaller fires when it's 35 and above. I have been able to restart a fire after 16 hours a couple of times. It's rare but possible. 10 hours is a pretty achievable restart on coals. Is your house drafty? Direct sun? How good is your insulation?


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## CapeCodWood (Mar 7, 2017)

I haven't had the house tested for heat loss I need to have that done soon mass save does it for free. The windows are all original it seems and the house was built in 78 so it feels drafty. Insulation in walls is standard for the time built....not enough. The attic is blow in insulation though which helps. The house does get cold very fast though I think due to Windows/insulation so I am just looking for something that will burn over night without issue. I figured like you said I could have smaller fires when we are home and load it up before bed/work


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2017)

Is stove in good shape?  Nothing's warped? Cat is good? Refractory?


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## CapeCodWood (Mar 7, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is stove in good shape?  Nothing's warped? Cat is good? Refractory?


The new one I'm looking at?


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## CapeCodWood (Mar 7, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is stove in good shape?  Nothing's warped? Cat is good? Refractory?


This is the new one is looking at it seems to be in good shape. It's pretty new. Made in 2011


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 7, 2017)

You can run the stove pretty low. When not so cold its smaller fires and when its cold its 18 inch logs. I can say the stove runs well. It has delivered everything that i have asked of it. Your well north of me. I think you're fine. As for the burn times, i shut my stove down like 8pm at 6am the next morning i drop logs on the coles and its back up and running. I've had it running 24/7 when its been cold.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 7, 2017)

CapeCodWood said:


> The new one I'm looking at?


Yeah the encore. If everything is in good shape I would buy it. The outside looks to be in really good shape. I've never seen anyone put a thermo on the side of the stove before...odd. If you end up getting it you should read through this thread and maybe even last years. Lots of good ideas on how to run the stove. Also invest in an Auber Instruments AT100 digital thermo. It will be your best friend in keeping the cat temps under control.


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## Dobish (Mar 9, 2017)

there are actually a couple of threads specific to this stove. I have this stove, and it will burn 10 hours regularly in a cold house that is super drafty.  its a great stove!


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## redman (Mar 19, 2017)

Haven't posted in a while but learning a lot from all of you. I'm nearing end of 3rd heating season and just now learning that most of you got a cat probe with your stoves. The dealer just have me a griddle therm. Anyway thankfully I don't have much trouble with engaging cat but I do have trouble controlling the air flow. Therefore burntime really varies. But even of I have it on low, within a few hrs the griddle will read 650 -700. I can't do anything about it at that point so I just go to bed hoping it doesn't melt while I sleep. Any tips here would be appreciated. Also, in looking for hole where cat probe would go if I had one, I took a pic and saw this, anyone experience This? Come spring I will take rear heat shield off and see what else I find any advice welcome


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## Diabel (Mar 20, 2017)

I don't think that is it. I believe the heat shield does not come with a predrilled cat probe hole. 

If you have easy assess then it will be a piece of cake to drill through the shield.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 20, 2017)

redman said:


> Haven't posted in a while but learning a lot from all of you. I'm nearing end of 3rd heating season and just now learning that most of you got a cat probe with your stoves. The dealer just have me a griddle therm. Anyway thankfully I don't have much trouble with engaging cat but I do have trouble controlling the air flow. Therefore burntime really varies. But even of I have it on low, within a few hrs the griddle will read 650 -700. I can't do anything about it at that point so I just go to bed hoping it doesn't melt while I sleep. Any tips here would be appreciated. Also, in looking for hole where cat probe would go if I had one, I took a pic and saw this, anyone experience This? Come spring I will take rear heat shield off and see what else I find any advice welcome



Is your stove an encore 2024. If so is the cat probe still in the back


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## redman (Mar 20, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Is your stove an encore 2024. If so is the cat probe still in the back


Model 2040
Bought it brand new 2014. I never received the cat probe but I did discover a hole in the back where i believe it would go. I also discovered what appears to be rusted leaks.


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## redman (Mar 20, 2017)

redman said:


> Model 2040
> Bought it brand new 2014. I never received the cat probe but I did discover a hole in the back where i believe it would go. I also discovered what appears to be rusted leaks.


Also the air intake even while on low still gets griddle temp to 700. I tried stuffing the aluminum foil back where air enters at bottom and it seemed to help a little but should I keep foil there?


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 20, 2017)

redman said:


> Also the air intake even while on low still gets griddle temp to 700. I tried stuffing the aluminum foil back where air enters at bottom and it seemed to help a little but should I keep foil there?


You should check all of your gaskets. If I close the primary air all the way I can cruise around 400GT. My secondary is also modified to completely close so this also helps. You should probably go ahead and order the AT100 from Auber Instruments. It is a digital real time thermo. Flying blind on the cat would make me nervous. At what GT temp are you engaging the cat?


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## redman (Mar 20, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You should check all of your gaskets. If I close the primary air all the way I can cruise around 400GT. My secondary is also modified to completely close so this also helps. You should probably go ahead and order the AT100 from Auber Instruments. It is a digital real time thermo. Flying blind on the cat would make me nervous. At what GT temp are you engaging the cat?


I will look into AT100. The GT temp could be anywhere from 450 before it starts to light off, flicker but by 550 is usually steady. First load is usually half full so I can crouch down and see cat light off which is annoying but trying to slowly advance tech. I notice a lot of you have a blower connected in back. Looking into that too


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 20, 2017)

redman said:


> I will look into AT100. The GT temp could be anywhere from 450 before it starts to light off, flicker but by 550 is usually steady. First load is usually half full so I can crouch down and see cat light off which is annoying but trying to slowly advance tech. I notice a lot of you have a blower connected in back. Looking into that too




Sounds like a gasket problem. When i turn my air all the way back the flames go out and the wood just glowes. The griddle gose to like 325. If you turn your air back and there is little change to the fire you have air entering from somewhere. It could be a gasket, it could be your primary air not closing all the way. Does anyone else that has a 2014.. vc 2024 with out a cat probe.. i thought they all came with one.


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## Dobish (Mar 20, 2017)

how tight is your ash door? it definitely seems like a gasket issue somewhere.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 20, 2017)

I am in agreement with it being an air leak. You can also try closing the damper earlier. GT around 350 and work your air down from there.


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## redman (Mar 20, 2017)

I called VC today. The guy was very helpful was like an encyclopedia on this particular unit.  Said EPA required cat probe packaged with stove as of May 2016. He also said ash pan. I think youre all onto something Thanks again


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 20, 2017)

redman said:


> I called VC today. The guy was very helpful was like an encyclopedia on this particular unit.  Said EPA required cat probe packaged with stove as of May 2016. He also said ash pan. I think youre all onto something Thanks again




Its what this site is all about... helping each other and sharing information..
I wish you the best and keep on keeping on


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## Dobish (Mar 21, 2017)

i noticed with my ash pan that I had to tighten the handle a little bit more than I thought.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 22, 2017)

Not much going on with the thread. So after not being able to burn for a few days. I got the stove running with the cooler temps and the stiff wind. I have a load of hickory in right now with a load of oak ready for tonight.. i have it the primary air half way back and the damper fully closed.. you can see the cat going through the slit in the back


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## Dobish (Mar 22, 2017)

i'm hoping it snows again this weekend like its supposed to so I can go skiing and my wife can sit by the fire


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## Excavator (Mar 23, 2017)

18 degrees here in NJ this morning. My old encore has not been out yet this year lol. This Saturday should hit 70 so might let it rest a few days


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 23, 2017)

Excavator said:


> 18 degrees here in NJ this morning. My old encore has not been out yet this year lol. This Saturday should hit 70 so might let it rest a few days


Impressive. My stove has gone cold a few times this year. Especially in February when we had that warm spell.


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## Excavator (Mar 23, 2017)

My wife was off work for 4 months and she loves to feed encore when it gets hungry  lol


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## Diabel (Mar 23, 2017)

Mine was going strong (24/7) for the past few days. Will go back to one fire per evening starting tomorrow as the temps are to creep up. 
I let the NG warm up the house in the morning this time of the year. Then hemlock for the evening fire.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 23, 2017)

I wish I had access to the sassafras I have for the spring shoulder season. However foolishly I stacked a bunch oak ash and maple in front of it.


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## Diabel (Mar 29, 2017)

Definitely quiet in this VC thread.

I need your opinion. I will be buying a new cat for my 2550 this summer. As an emergency unit. My ceramic cat is just finishing its third year of almost 24/7 operation. I believe it will do another burning season, but I want to have a second unit available just in case.

Question: ceramic or steel? I know all the pros and cons of each, but if you have used both in the past then I would like to hear your opinion regarding your experience with each. 

Also, does any one know why the flexburn stoves 2040 etc use the 1" thick cat and the 2550 etc use 2"    , pretty much the same stove (size wise for sure)?


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 29, 2017)

Tag jharkin. I believe he has experienced both cats.


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 29, 2017)

It's quiet because all of our stoves are running top notch or not at all due to the mild winter! Plus we dont have to remind everyone how cool our stoves are like the BK boys.


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## Diabel (Mar 29, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It's quiet because all of our stoves are running top notch or not at all due to the mild winter! Plus we dont have to remind everyone how cool our stoves are like the BK boys.


Nice!


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## Dobish (Mar 30, 2017)

I have actually been burning the last couple of days, just to get the chill out of the air. I know it is going to start getting cold again because my flowers are coming up, i just put down grass seed, and I just purchased some fruit trees that I am going to plant.... 

I think i have to adjust the tension on my door, the handle seems a little loose, and the flames all seem to be leaning to the right.  Thinking its a gasket related, since the wood I have been burning the last few days has not been optimal (i prematurely moved over a few pine branches that I thought were good), but air control seems a bit off....


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 30, 2017)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It's quiet because all of our stoves are running top notch or not at all due to the mild winter! Plus we dont have to remind everyone how cool our stoves are like the BK boys.




Funny... 
theese stoves do run well.. its nice not to have to wake up in the middle of the night to reload, like i have read in some of the other threads 
I cant wait to burn again next year.. i am almost done..


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## RandyBoBandy (Mar 30, 2017)

We can't get 30 hour burn times like the BK's but we do pretty good with our Encore. I now have about a five year supply of firewood due to mild winters. My wife has told me to stop bringing home firewood because it's everywhere on my property. Good thing is it will all be oak and locust with a cord of elm, a cord of sassafras, and a cord of ash mixed in. I have another cord of oak to pick up but she doesn't know that.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jul 12, 2017)

Hi guys
I have a question. I am going to order the auber at100  to monitor my cat. The question is what probe do i get
Thanks


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## RandyBoBandy (Jul 12, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hi guys
> I have a question. I am going to order the auber at100  to monitor my cat. The question is what probe do i get
> Thanks


Do you use a rear heat shield?


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## Reckless (Aug 12, 2017)

@jharkin I think it's time for the 17/18 thread, it's about that time...


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 12, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Hi guys
> I have a question. I am going to order the auber at100  to monitor my cat. The question is what probe do i get
> Thanks


 
Anyone? ????


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## Reckless (Aug 12, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Anyone? ????



Randy asked if you use a rear heat shield two posts up. If you do it will limit the length of probe....


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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 12, 2017)

I have the 2040. I have a heat shield here is a pic of the back of the stove..  sorry about missing the reply


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## Reckless (Aug 14, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I have the 2040. I have a heat shield here is a pic of the back of the stove..  sorry about missing the reply
> View attachment 199133
> View attachment 199134



I use the condar probe with my Auber but don't use the heat shield. 
http://www.condar.com/watchman.html



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## Woodsplitter67 (Aug 15, 2017)

Reckless said:


> I use the condar probe with my Auber but don't use the heat shield.
> http://www.condar.com/watchman.html
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply
Do you not use the heat shield because the probe is not long enough


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## Reckless (Aug 15, 2017)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> Do you not use the heat shield because the probe is not long enough



My stove never came with one plus it's inside an old fireplace with firebrick behind it... I have no clue on lengths and things of that nature unfortunately. I would think with the shield you would need a shorter one like the one I posted but I'm not positive on that unfortunately.


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## Diabel (Aug 16, 2017)

Hi all!

The cat in my Encore will be going into its 5th season. I am thinking that I should have a spare handy. The difference in price between steel and ceramic (condar) is about 65.00.

I have read all about the differences in behavior etc.

What are your opinions?


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## Reckless (Aug 19, 2017)

Diabel said:


> Hi all!
> 
> The cat in my Encore will be going into its 5th season. I am thinking that I should have a spare handy. The difference in price between steel and ceramic (condar) is about 65.00.
> 
> ...



From what I've read on here most people have better luck with ceramic. I was going to switch to steel myself until I read that it lasts just about as long since it's just coating on the steel. 


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## Diabel (Aug 19, 2017)

Reckless said:


> From what I've read on here most people have better luck with ceramic. I was going to switch to steel myself until I read that it lasts just about as long since it's just coating on the steel.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thank you Reckless.
Yes, I am leaning towards ceramic one.
I think that I can get one more season out of my existing ceramic one. I just want to have a spare one handy.


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## Dobish (Aug 22, 2017)

i have been using the ceramic one, and if it is worn out, VC has a replacement program... Mine cracked last year, and they replaced it for free!


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## webfish (Aug 22, 2017)

New thread for new year.

https://hearth.com/talk/threads/2017-2018-vc-owners-thread.162678/


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