# So...gardens..



## eclecticcottage (Feb 28, 2012)

Ever since our offer was accepted on the Cottage I've been plotting a garden (or rather, gardens).  I envision a butterfly/hummingbird/finch (small seeds) garden, a food garden and a hedgerow of berry shrubs.  I'd like to work in some sunflowers for the larger seed eaters too at some point.  I figured it would be several years of building.  I've got some shrubs on order (butterfly bushes, service berry, american cranberry).  I think we're going to need to take down a tree or two to put in some fruit trees, but we can always use more firewood :D . I "just for fun" added to my cart the bulbs, seeds and fruit and berry trees/bushes to my carts...and it's like $300!  Shesh.  But I'm looking at 90% perennial and shrub, so it's a one shot deal (until I add my spring flowering/fall planting bulbs, and berry plants, lol).  The flower garden portion will be wildflowers and naturalizing bulbs like tulips, lilies and narcissis (sp).  Fruit trees will be pear and peach, with blueberry and the afore mentioned cranberry and serviceberry (june berry), with strawberry and maybe blackberry to follow.

I don't really have a point to this except I want to talk about gardens.


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## potter (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't know exactly where you are, but if the soil around you is like ours than amending it would be the first thing on the list. We live in clay land. Good for pottery and ceramics, harder for gardens.


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## lukem (Feb 28, 2012)

I ready to shift my attention from wood burning to growing some stuff.

I have my peppers, broccoli, and tomatoes started.  Won't be long and we'll be planting:

Lettuce
Spinach
Carrots
Radishes
Onions
Potatoes
Tomatoes
Okra
Butternut Squash
Summer Squash
Zuccini
All kinds of peppers
Snow Peas
Cucumbers
Herbs
Green Beans
Other stuff I can't think of

We also have the perennial stuff:
Apples
Cherries
Raspberries
Grapes
Strawberries
Blueberries

Freezer is getting pretty empty, so I need to get growing...


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## Backwoods Savage (Feb 28, 2012)

We plan on adding some apple and peach trees this year. Perhaps 2 or 3 cherry too. Vegetable garden won't be much except for the sweet corn and peas. There will also be pumpkins and mammoth grey stripe sunflowers mixed into the corn patch which will be rather large compared to most folks. Shoot, I haven't yet done this year's pruning but now will wait for the snow to melt before getting to that task.


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 29, 2012)

potter said:
			
		

> Don't know exactly where you are, but if the soil around you is like ours than amending it would be the first thing on the list. We live in clay land. Good for pottery and ceramics, harder for gardens.



We've got clay, but it's down a few feet.  We should be good 

I hope, lol.


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## begreen (Feb 29, 2012)

Still, it's good advice to prep the soil to give your new perennials the best advantage.  Be sure to understand the plant needs too, especially those that prefer a more acid soil vs a neutral one.


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## SolarAndWood (Feb 29, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Still, it's good advice to prep the soil to give your new perennials the best advantage.



I completely agree.  I added 20 yards of compost last year to our clay/glacial till soil and the difference was amazing.


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## eclecticcottage (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm not sure I'll be able to amend the soil for our perennials, since it's going to cover a few thousand sq ft.  Maybe I could get the farm down the road to make a pit stop with thier honey wagon on the way past the Cottage, lol.  I'm using (well, hoping to use) a mix of mixes (butterfly/hummingbird, cut flower, northeastern, firecracker, poppies and individual extra yarrow, butterfly weed and sunflower)from Wildseed Farms and some bare root starts from the county.  I want annuals and perennials especially at first, so the annuals can fill in while the perennials "settle in".  I do plan to remove the grass, till, and cover with a tarp for a few weeks prior (to help kill any little scragglers).  We also sowed some milkweed seeds in a different area, we'll see if they start.


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## Cascade Failure (Mar 2, 2012)

lukem said:
			
		

> I ready to shift my attention from wood burning to growing some stuff.
> 
> I have my peppers, broccoli, and tomatoes started.  Won't be long and we'll be planting:
> 
> ...



I'm ready to shift gears too.

The rhubarb is popping up, sweet potatoes are started indoors, and the pile of rabbit poop is ready to be turned under. Gonna work on setting up a small orchard/berry patch not far from the hives this year. Can't wait to get dirty.


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## blacktail (Mar 2, 2012)

First year in my house and the previous owners had raised beds. I've turned in compost a few times as it became ready and fenced it off to keep the deer out. After my grandmother passed away in October we all took some of her famous blueberry plants and mine are planted around my garden. The local hardware store had a good sale on seeds last month so I'm ready. 3" of snow yesterday so it might be awhile still.


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## basod (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm with everyone about getting gardening.

It's been so warm here, but I know from past experience if I plant  now there will a be frost around the 1st of April >:-( 

Have you looked online for rooted perrenials?  If wanting well established plants for the immediate rewards I understand.

Butterfly bush is fairly easy to propagate yourself from cuttings same thing with roses.  I just take the best looking cuts and stick them in a 1/2gal pot of garden soil nothing special, if they root they root, if not oh well.

Word of warning on getting manure from a local farm, check out thier fields, if you see any pigweed or other non-desirable invasive species stay away.

You'll have these seeds popping up all over the place.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 2, 2012)

Bare root perennials are a bit on the high side for us, with the number we'd need.  The bare roots I'm getting are shrubs.  They look like dead sticks when you pick them up, lol, but we've had good luck with them from previous years at the Old House.  Butterfly bush, serviceberry and american cranberry.  I had reasonable luck last year on CL getting splits from gardeners looking to thin out the more aggressive stuff like coneflower, daisy and black eyed susan.  Since I don't want a really "cultivated" garden, I'm happy to take them.  

Blacktail, that's great that you got some of the blueberry bushes!  My Gram just passed away a few weeks ago, and that's part of what's got me on a gardening tear.  She loved her flowers (so did my Grandpa to be honest).  Their house was a floral showplace in the spring.  I want the Cottage to be the same, kind of my way of keeping that spirit alive.  Their house was sold a few years back-I tried rooting a cutting from a rhododendrun there but it didn't take.  I've been pondering contacting the new owners to see if I could try again, but it's a 3 hour drive one way from us and I'd feel bad if they didn't take again after driving that far.  I wish our old house had been more "garden ready" when they were still living there, my grandpa would have rooted some for us then.  I just didn't know what to do with them at that time.


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 2, 2012)

How was growing cranberry? I'm interested.

I need to do a total garden re-work, moving things, redoing fencing, taking down trees around the yard that provide more shade every year. 

I have asparagus as a perrenial, and garlic is in of course. Can't start other stuff for a while now.

I can keep groundhogs out of the garden with chickenwire along the ground, but need long-term fencing options for the higher fence.  Any suggestions?

This year I might finally build my wood fired pizza oven out by the garden and maybe some larger dogu as garden sculpture.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 2, 2012)

We haven't done the American Cranberry yet, that and the Serviceberry will be firsts for us (we already have about 15 butterfly bushes).  Previously we've bought lilac, rose of sharon and black locust from them.  We didn't lose any, and they are all doing very well.  I think the lilacs were $10 for 10.  I've found most counties do the bare root sales, try searching for your county soil and water conservation district and check to see if they have a bare root or spring plant sale.  The prices are super if you have room for multiple plants or can share a lot with others.


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 2, 2012)

I did that when I bought my house 10 yrs ago- I got a variety of native perennials from the state. They did very well and I didn't lose any of them. I've planted maybe 35-40 perennials here and can't think of any that I've lost so I'm confident in my methods now.


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## Butcher (Mar 2, 2012)

Lookin forward to gettin in the garden here too. We have around 6000 square feet of garden so it is almost a second job for us but we dont go the the grocery store much.


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## Jags (Mar 2, 2012)

Butcher - I think gardening with an Oliver is considered "farming". :lol:


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## Butcher (Mar 2, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> Butcher - I think gardening with an Oliver is considered "farming". :lol:



Only without the subsities.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 2, 2012)

Ooooo...Oliver...I like tractors!!

I'm having a hard time deciding where to put the veggie garden.  Can't be up front in the shade or by the road in the sun (ick).  Don't want it in the direct line of sight to the lake (at least the taller stuff) to block out view.  Don't want it where the dog run is.  Can't go where the shade from the big maple or pines are...shesh.  We've got about 1/2 an acre and I still can't find the right spot, lol.


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 2, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:
			
		

> We haven't done the American Cranberry yet, that and the Serviceberry will be firsts for us (we already have about 15 butterfly bushes).  Previously we've bought lilac, rose of sharon and black locust from them.  We didn't lose any, and they are all doing very well.  I think the lilacs were $10 for 10.  I've found most counties do the bare root sales, try searching for your county soil and water conservation district and check to see if they have a bare root or spring plant sale.  The prices are super if you have room for multiple plants or can share a lot with others.



Don't know what your climate there is like, but go easy on the butterfly bushes until you know whether they'll survive the winter, or contrary, are invasive as they are in southern areas.  There's a fairly narrow zone where they both survive and behave themselves.  I really like them, but where I am, they don't overwinter.  On the other hand, Japanese honeysuckle does very well, but not well enough to spread, so I'm in that "sweet spot" for that.


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 2, 2012)

They are pretty happy here.  We have some neighbors with them.  They don't go where they aren't supposed to as far as I can tell.  We're in the "banana belt" of NY, the lake creates a miniclimate that makes us like a bit different than surrounding areas.  It's a good growing area.  It's been a different winter, but ours haven't even died back this year, the leaves are still green!


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, heck, you should be able to grow just about anything there.  (Do get your soil tested, though, so you know what you're dealing with.)

I'm only a few miles from the lower end of Lake Champlain, so while not quite the "banana belt," it is a less harsh winter here and a longer growing season than most of the rest of the state.  I'm halfway up the SE side of a low, glacial ridge, so my soil ranges unpredictably from strong clay to pretty decent loam in spots to other spots where there's no more than 3 or 4 inches before you hit dense, impenetrable broken shale, depending on what the long-ago glacier left behind.

And you're right, by the way, that as long as the top 6 or 8 inches aren't super-heavy clay, perennials will do fine without a lot of fussing and amending as long as they've got sufficient water and sun-- especially if you do "cottage garden" style and stick to stuff that belongs in your climate.  (I've long wished somebody would write a book along the lines of "Good Enough Gardening"!)


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## Butcher (Mar 2, 2012)

Heres a helpful link. 
http://www.worldfoodgarden.org/WhatWhenNoLogin.asp

Type in your addy, click find, click select location.


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## cricketfarmer (Mar 7, 2012)

I've also been getting the gardening bug. The wife and I are going to a home and garden show this weekend to start getting ideas for this spring. Fortunately, living in the heart of farm country, I have beautiful rich topsoil that goes down 4 feet or so. Unfortunately, living in the heart of farm country, all I see is topsoil leading off to the horizon in all directions. I'd be willing to trade some soil for maybe a small mountain, or maybe a lake view.


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## Highbeam (Mar 7, 2012)

Don't forget about pumpkins. We get about 80 pumpkins a year. 

I'm a big fan of green beans and I like the pole beans vs. bush beans so that they are out of the dirt.


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## btuser (Mar 8, 2012)

I ordered hop rhizomes.  Not really going to be a money saver but I like the idea of growing some for the homebrew.  With all the stumps I've got poking out of the snow I'm thinking some mushrooms would be a nice, easy addition to the food chain.  Just hope I don't get any of those funny mushrooms that turn you into a hippy.  Free love isn't free, might end up costing me a copay.


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## firebroad (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm reading this thread trying to pump my psyche up.  I am so apathetic after last year, I am ready to throw in the trowel.
It took me four years to build raised beds, add good soil to the packed clay, get compost bins going, etc.  Then last year we had hot, humid drought, and then the bugs took over.  Stink bugs, bean beetles, cutworms, and the worse pest of all, the squash bugs.  Now, I grew butternut squash, which is supposed to be resistant to them, but I had never seen such an invasion.  Ever single leaf was adorned with egg clusters, and as you know they are hard to remove without tearing up the leaves.  I sprayed Pyola and soapy water on the nymphs, killing them by the hundreds, but the adults--well, the ground literally MOVED with the things.  I refuse to grow any cucurbits this year because of that, so that rules out summer squash, cucumbers, etc.  
Because of the drought, my carrots were bitter, the beets were small and woody, and the peppers and eggplant just kept dropping blossoms.  I did get enough tomatoes to put up, at least.
Somebody send some encouragement this way!


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## begreen (Mar 8, 2012)

Bummer. It's hard to say without some long term observation, but pests usually come in after weak plants. It sounds like there is either a serious deficiency in the soil or a toxin that is dramatically weakening the plants.


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## firebroad (Mar 8, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Bummer. It's hard to say without some long term observation, but pests usually come in after weak plants. It sounds like there is either a serious deficiency in the soil or a toxin that is dramatically weakening the plants.


Either one is possible, as it was store bought topsoil, though that bed in particular did well previously.  Maybe deficiency, I tend to go light on fertilizer.  And I won't buy a soil test, MD extenstion service wants $300.  I think it was just one of those years, but I don't want any overwintering bugs to establish themselves.
The fact that my water supply is loaded with iron (think rusty mud) might have been a factor, since all water came nearly exclusively from the well.


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 8, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
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$300 for a soil test?!!  Something wrong here.  Most states, it runs from $20 or $30 to maybe $100 for an analysis of every possible trace mineral, which you don't need done.  I don't believe you have to live in a state to have the state lab do a soil test, so try some other states and see how they price it.  Also, there are private labs that will do this-- more expensive than most state services, but nowhere near $300.

Sounds like you had a really, really horrible year, but sometimes that happens, which is why you have to have very strong nerves to be a farmer.  And BeGreen is absolutely right that healthy plants can usually withstand insect assault a lot better than not so healthy ones, and the bugs have some sort of sensor that alerts them to the weak plants to zero in on.

Get your soil tested, but add lots of composted manure, some good organic fertilizer (Pro-Gro is great if you can find it) and throw some row covers over your most vulnerable plants and pin the material down with a few good rocks.  Most flying bugs won't try to go up under them, so you can greatly reduce the number of insect pests per plant by that simple tactic.


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## Normande (Mar 8, 2012)

If you want sunflowers , plant or pick moderat size head varieties or just the black oil seed they sell for bird seed, planted 1 acre with the no-till drill for a fellow once and I have never seen so many goldfinches in my life as I did that fall litterally houndred at once. and sunflowers have an large tap root excellent as summer green manure crop on those clay soils, wife wants me to put in blueberries this summer any recomendation on variety??


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## Butcher (Mar 8, 2012)

since you are rasing veggies in raised beds it might be a good idea to cover them beds with some black plastic this time of year and leave it on till the soil reaches a temp that will kill weeds and bug larva.
We raise our own veggies from seed to plants to soil here so we have a good handle on what is what. If your buying bedding plants at a drive buy place those bugs are there already. Your just givin tem a RIDE TO A NEW HOME.


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## begreen (Mar 9, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
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Send the soil sample to the UMASS. I did this with our beds. It was cheap, like under 20 for multiple beds. If your soil is nutritionally deficient, the plants are going to be weak and vulnerable. 

http://www.umass.edu/soiltest/


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## rideau (Mar 9, 2012)

Sue:  You may already do these things, but if not you might try:  compost or grass clippings around your plants (when the soil is moist), straw over that...a good deep mulch of about six inches once your plants are up...add mulch as they grow until it is good and deep.  Get a couple of large trugs and catch what rainwater you can.  Other times fill the trugs with water AM and PM and let that well water get to ambiant temperature before watering your plants. I have well water with lots of iron and have no problem from that with my plants...but cold well water, especially if it is hot out, can shock them.   If there is a real drought you can use empty containers --pint, quart or gallon --to water your plants.  Cut the bottom off, turn upside down into the soil next to your plant, and fill the containers as indicated.  They will slowly water the roots. You can leave the containers there all summer if need be. Fish emulsion and seaweed fertilizers are great natural fertilizers, and one container goes a long way as they are diluted and only fed occasionally.  If you are able to keep your plants healthy and your soil is healthy (without poisons that kill the good bugs that are the predators of the destructive bugs at the same time they are killing destructive bugs), you shouldn't have enough bugs to destroy your crops.  If you like zucchini, plant a bush zucchini in a large pot of really rich compost...or better yet on top of your aged compost pile...a bit away from the garden.  One plant that is healthy can give you lots of zucchini and should be easy to care for.  Or, plant a bed of them and cover them with row cover to keep the bugs out.  If you are too hot for row cover, you can use mosquito netting or screening....


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## firebroad (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks to everybody, I will try a lot of these.  Soil test is getting sent to the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts!,  Also, I believe I will solarize that one bed, Butcher.  I'm glad to know the high iron content is probably not detrimental to my soil. Gryfalcon, you are correct; the $300 is for the full analysis.  A simple one is closer to $40-$80, so I'm going off-state ;-) 

One other point--it occurred to me last night whilst I was chopping up the winter leaves that cluster in corners that the insects may have been hiding in my compost or mulch.  As the leaves where whirling around inside the mulch platform of the mower, I got a strong odor of stinkbugs.  Could be that I had used some leaves as mulch that were not fully composted, and had inadvertently introduced a lot of pests into my beds.


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## lukem (Mar 9, 2012)

I took a chance on the weather and planted some early season stuff this week:  carrots, radishes, kohlrabi, lettuce, spinach, and peas.  I was shocked the ground was dry enough to till, but I managed to no problem.

We'll see what happens...most of this stuff can stand a frost, but not a super hard freeze....worst case I'm out a couple bucks in seeds....best case I get my produce a couple weeks earlier.  Regardless, I'll do a second planting of all these items again in early April.

Peppers sprouted this week, some of them anyway.  Tomatoes are looking good.  Broccoli is too.  These are all inside in trays BTW.  Won't be too long and they be moving outdoors.

Some new asparagus will be here next week...need to get that in the ground.  Need to get some onions and taters in the ground before too long too.


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## lukem (Mar 9, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> I can keep groundhogs out of the garden with chickenwire along the ground, but need long-term fencing options for the higher fence.



I built a fence last year to keep the deer and dog out.  Dog was a bigger offender than the deer.

I fenced in a 48x56 area.  Set 8' treated 6x6 in the corners...then 8' treated 4x4s every 12' between them...ended up with a 6' high fence.  Fenced with 48' horse fence (2x4 mesh high tensile) and then a couple courses of smooth wire every 8" above that.  Turned out really nice.


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 9, 2012)

lukem said:
			
		

> Turned out really nice.



Have any pics?


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## lukem (Mar 9, 2012)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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Post #78 and #79

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/76593/P75/


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 9, 2012)

That does look good.  Holes are only 2'?


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## lukem (Mar 9, 2012)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> That does look good.  Holes are only 2'?



24"-30" with pea gravel and concrete backfill.  We don't get much heave here.


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## Normande (Mar 9, 2012)

300 bucks will get you a solar fence charger an 320' of fence that you can take down and put up in about 15 minutes works great. Here's one site I know about Kencove.com


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 10, 2012)

Normande said:
			
		

> 300 bucks will get you a solar fence charger an 320' of fence that you can take down and put up in about 15 minutes works great. Here's one site I know about Kencove.com



Do you use it?  What do you do run 8' deer net and then 4' electric net?


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## lukem (Mar 10, 2012)

I needed a physical barrier for this dog...and deer will jump a hot wire.  Can't grow peas, cukes, gourds, or beans on a hot wire either.  The fence really works great for that.


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## Normande (Mar 10, 2012)

No arguement there Lukem, except Deer will jump anything less than 6 feet and even them they'll try. I used the 40" to keep calves in/out depending on how you looked at it the 28" will keep groundhogs and fullsize chickens out of the garden, or at least in the part you want them, I used to like to keep Ducks in the garden to keep bugs down, but you have to protect the smaller plant if you do that. 
Did you put BARBED wire around the top, I have fought with enough of that garbage in my life to think your crazy, but hey to each their own. oops My bad just relooked at the photo smooth wire, nice job


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