# nothing but problems with a hearthstone heritage



## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

dealer installed on Tuesday
installer did a nice job
door handles not working right on install, but I knew that ahead of time, because I bought the floor model.
the dealer said he would fix the handles before install. They were not fixed. I called to let him know and he then ordered rebuild kits for them.
I didnt see the tag in the back of the stove at the store. After the install the tag in the back says it was made in 2005.
I didnt think much of it, since it seems to be new.
Other than a few scratches, and some white smuges, everything seemed to be ok.

Started a small fire for break in, and let the stove cool down.

The next day started anothe small fire, just a couple small pieces of oak.
it was a little smokey in the house and fumey, I just took it for burn off.

Same thing the next day, smokey and more fumes. Had about three pieces of oak burning.

The next day I started a fire with just a few small pieces of wood to get it going, and smoke started coming out of everywhere, the back, the sides, everywhere stone meets cast iron.

I will be going back to the dealer in the morning, because in my eyes there is something really wrong with this stove.

So my question is :  is it just a defect, or is it because it old and was sitting for so long.
Or because it had white smudges on the outside of it, the dealer tried to fix it, and was messy about it?
Either way I am not very happy about this whole situation.


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## branchburner (Oct 31, 2009)

Okay, first question: how dry is this oak? This year, one year, two year's old? These stoves need very dry/seasoned wood. Quite different from burning in an older stove.

And what were outdoor temps? As mentioned in earlier replies, that can be a factor, as can your chimney/flue setup. Give as many details on the setup as you can and some folks who know this stove will be along with advice on helping you get to know it. Be patient for a few days and try a few suggestions and things should work out (except the handles - that's in your dealer's hands).

It sounds like a draft problem which is more likely the chimney than the stove itself.


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## savageactor7 (Oct 31, 2009)

Yup a draft problem or a plugged chimney. go in the basement or where ever the clean out is and mirror the chimney. Could be a birds nest preventing a good draft.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

the stove was installed four days ago so i dont think it is pluged.
i have double wall pipe comming off the stove, going straight up, through the attic,and to the roof.
About six feet in the house, another 3 or 4 feet in the attic, and about six feet out the roof.

Are these stoves suppose to have a sealed fire box?

i bought a cord of oak, I believe it to be at least a year old, it is very dry and lites pretty easy.
i have no problems starting a fire.


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## Fsappo (Oct 31, 2009)

I have had issues in the past with a Hearthstone stove smoking out of everywhere with a customer.  Hearthstone told me that it was a draft/negative pressure issue.  This can be the case.  Any stove if you start a fire and plug the chimney, has plenty of places smoke can come out of.  I knew of course the Hearthstone in my showroom never smoked where the customer was telling me his smoked from.  So I started a fire, sent my installer on the roof and told him to stick a drop cloth in the chimney.  Bingo, same thing that was happening with my customer.  So we extended his chimney three feet, installed an outside air kit and showed him how to warm up the flue on his outside chimney with gel before lighting his fire.  Happy customer.  

If you wanted to try to see if it is negative pressure, crack a window open a few inches in the room where you have the stove.  If your weather is like it is in NY, (60 degrees and muggy) you may have to work a little harder getting your chimney warm.  You can use the gel fire starter used for lighting pellets.  Build your fire with some dry kindling and put a few small splits on top.  dump an ounce or two of the gel on TOP of the splits and light that.  The stuff doest burn hot enough to ignite the splits right away and is smokeless/odorless.  It should help you get the air moving up the chimney by the time the kindling catches and the logs start burning.

Stay on them about the handle

I wouldnt care if it was from 2005.  A great stove is a great stove.  Keep us posted.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

arent the fire boxes suppose to be sealed though, I could understand smoke comming out of a door when trying to lite the fire, but not the sides of the box.

I think it would be hard to control burn temp if the whole box has leaks.


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## edthedawg (Oct 31, 2009)

Had this floor model stove been lit ever in the showroom?  i agree it'd surprise me to see it leaking smoke "everywhere" but it's also a bit warmish still.  i got lots of smoke intrusion last year on some early burns.  i do question the wood - it's nearly impossible to buy wood - esp oak! - and have it be truly dry enough for the stove to not smoulder it.


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## DAKSY (Oct 31, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> arent the fire boxes suppose to be sealed though, I could understand smoke comming out of a door when trying to lite the fire, but not the sides of the box.
> 
> I think it would be hard to control burn temp if the whole box has leaks.



The fire box is sealed, but there is an combustion air hole in the lower rear of the unit.
If you do not have a good draft started, the negative pressure in your home will
cause this opening to allow smoke out thru it.
You may have a situation where the outside air attachment will prevent this problem...


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## strawman (Oct 31, 2009)

Totally agree with Ed on the wood issue. I burn pretty much exclusively oak three years covered before I use it. That way if for some reason one year I can't cut wood, still good to go.  I'm in the second month using my new heritage. Two turns in my chimney to a total height of only 15 feet with tall pines surrounding and have had no inside smoking or draft issues even on warmer damp days. If someone is going to sell truly seasoned dry wood they have to stack it, preferrably cover it, store it and handle it a couple more times. All this extra effort = more $.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

i believe the oak is pretty dry.
Smoke did come out the back once, but mostly it seeps out the top corners and between the soapstone seems.

So is the fire box suppose to be seeled, and if so, would this be a defect or brokken stove?


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

I dont believe the stove was ever lit in the store. It seemed real clean.


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## learnin to burn (Oct 31, 2009)

Before lighting your next fire stick your head inside the box and check the seams for refractory cement. A lot of guys here have said there was a lot of it oozing out of the seams upon install.

I also think it could be a draft issue even though it is a new install. If you can get up on the roof, pop the cap off and check it. You might be surprised at how fast little birds will make a nest. Then take a flashlight and look down the flue for obstructions.


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## ansehnlich1 (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't know if the stove is to be completely air tight so that when there is NO DRAFT, causing the firebox to become pressuized and full of smoke, that smoke would exit at places other than the door(s) or air inlets.

I don't see where anyone here yet has said "yes, the stove is to be completely airtight". 

I'm simply not certain myself. 

These newer EPA rated stoves can be a little difficult to get used to.

Have you ever burned one before? 

When I make a fire from a cold start, especially on a 55 to 60 degree day, I use ample balled up newspaper, topped with 8 or 10 pieces of pine 2x4 split to a half inch or so, topped with some loose fitting small, dry splits, and then I shove 3 pieces of balled up newspaper on top, in front. I light that stuff on top in front first and that burns off real fast to help establish a draft, then I light up the paper underneath, and keep the side door open an inch for the next 15 or 20 minutes til the whole mess gets rollin' real good, then close her up but keep the air control lever wide open til she takes off....this process can take a half hour or 45 minutes to do....

Let us know how you make out....


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2009)

By the description of 16' of flue, straight up, it should draft reasonably well. Is the flue pipe new and 6" ID? What is the outdoor temp?

I like the idea of testing with a near by window open an inch or so and try running the stove with a batch of known dry wood. Maybe get a bundle from the local store. Start the fire with known dry wood kindling like carpentry or cabinetry scraps and get a good kindling fire going, then add a couple of 2-3" splits of the store bought dry wood. Don't start reducing the air supply until the wood is burning well. Then reduce it gradually, but not to the point of snuffing out the flame.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

I dont think so guys are completely understanding me,  I can start a fire just fine, when the fire is going, its still leaking smoke out the sides.
Once the fire is going good, its a lot less smoke, but still slowly fills the house.
why would is seep from the box?     It is suppose to be sealed.


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## CTburning (Oct 31, 2009)

I used a pre epa smoke dragon the last couple of years and didn't have any smoke coming into the room when the fire was going and the doors were shut.  When you opened the doors you could have a little spill out for a second or two before the smoke started going in the right direction again.  The rope gasket didn't seal perfectly and you could see the fire where the two doors met if you looked at the right angle.  My point is, its sounds like a draft problem.  You should look at your chimney.  My old stove would get the chimney so hot you could hear the air being sucked out of the stove by the chimney when it was cold out.  If your stove starts working a lot better when the weather gets cold, it reinforces what I'm thinking.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

I dont really think its a draft problem, but I could be wrong. This is my first stove.
I started a fire this morning, I have a nice bed of coals right now, the temp is a little over 300.
If I throw another log on is will smolder a few minutes then catch fire.  The little bit of smoke in there, will then come out the sides, not the doors.
This does not seem right. Isnt the box suppose to be sealed.  how could it be efficient if its not sealed?
So Im I to believe whenever there is smoke it will come into the house, from the seams of the stove?


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## jqgs214 (Oct 31, 2009)

I think you do have a draft problem, if you had good draft the smoke would be sucked up the 6" flue, since to me it seems you have negtive draft the smoke is being forced out of the stove.  I agree with you that smoke should not come out of the seams but maybe it just appears that way?  is smoke coming out the air intake? out of the flue connection?


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## yanksforever (Oct 31, 2009)

Tell the guy at the store you bought it from to get his a** over there and check it out to see whats wrong.
If you are not satisfied..something is probably wrong. ALSO...from my experience...if you buy split wood from 
someone in the summer and they say it is seasoned...they are most of the time..giving you a ton of crap!
Especially with oak...which needs 2 years split and stacked if not 3 years to season correctly.


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## Todd (Oct 31, 2009)

Something isn't right, there shouldn't be smoke coming out the seams. Did you check the inside of the fire box to see if the mortar between the soapstone panels aren't cracked or missing in spots? If the stove has leaky seams it should be sucking that air into the box not pushing it out unless there's a draft problem. Is the smoke a wood smell or more of a paint smell? I've seen smoke come off new stoves and pipe while the paint cures for the first few fires but you shouldn't get wood smoke unless you have a serious draft problem.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

It is windy here, and we do get some strong gusts, the smoke does goes up, but sometimes it also seeps in.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

stove up to 350 right now and it smells like burning plastic.
One other thing I did notice is, from the outside lleft upper seam, where it is leaking in the picture.
YOu can see that rope stuff, that is used to seal around the doors. 

Do they use this to seal the box?


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## ansehnlich1 (Oct 31, 2009)

Hey new burner, how many fires have you had in this stove?

When stoves are brand new they can burn off some stuff the first couple fires and stink things up pretty bad.

So, how many fires so far total? And what's the hottest you've had the stove? Each time you get a new stove a little hotter you can maybe smell the new stove smell again.

Otherwise, do what's been said here, get the installer over to look at it a.s.a.p.


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2009)

I took a second look at the photo (enhanced and enlarged here). That does seem like a fair amount of smoke coming out of the upper right top of the stove. It may be that you need another 2' section of pipe on the flue and perhaps a cap that deals with strong wind. How strong are the gusts you are getting now and what temp is it outside?


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2009)

Do you live near Peoria? I'm thinking it is just too warm and windy to get good draft without more pipe.


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## learnin to burn (Oct 31, 2009)

Lets try this one more time! You have 2 issues going on as far as I can tell. 

1st - There is a draft issue. The wind is blowing hard enough to stop your draft for a few seconds allowing smoke to build up in the box and then come out through the seems. (Path of least resistance)

2nd - There is a stove issue. You should not have that much smoke coming out of the seems of the stove. The seems need to be resealed. When the situation stated above occurs the path of least resistance should be the air intake and possibly the door seal not the seams of the stove.

Have your dealer send the installer back out to fix the issues on his dollar ASAP.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

Iam in northern illinois, closer to wisconson, its about 45 degrees here.
I went to the dealer this morning, they are going to talk to the manufacture on Monday.
I sent them the pictures, I dont know why they dont come out and look at it.

I have not been burning it that hot, today was the hottest its been, about 350 degrees.
I dont want to burn it that hot because I dont have a heat sheild yet. I was going to pick it up at the dealer today, but he said he couldnt give it to me because it was part of the install, and they would install it.
So it all just doesnt sound right to me.  I mean come on its only a heat shield, just screws on, right.

Ive only had 4 fires in it.

The dealer did say it sounds like I over fired it.  So I guess they are going to try and say I somehow broke it.
Main Street Fireplace & BBQ
StCharles, Illinois

I would not recomend you shop there, ever.

right now its not the windy, no gusts.
fire is at 300
smoke leaks from the box very slowly, hard to see it, but you can smell it.
I have to open the window every now and then to let smoke out of the house, it leaks slowly, but acumlulates in the house.
It always smells like smoke. When it burns at 350 it smells like plastic. Which is probebly burm off.


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## branchburner (Oct 31, 2009)

I would also assume that smoke should never come out the seams, but if you look back at the post by Franks, he got this result by blocking the chimney. Since you said the stove looked unused I'm going to guess it wasn't ever overfired, or wasn't fired up without a break-in fire (I've heard that can compromise the cement). So while it is possible the stove is flawed, it still seems more likely a draft issue. But by all means have the dealer determine which it is and how they intend to fix it.


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## new burner (Oct 31, 2009)

I also wanted to add, that this stove is a floor model, but according to the dealer new, never had a fire.  I was told it was one or two years old.
After it was installed, I look at the tag in the back it says it was made in May of 2006.  So I dont know if that would have anything to do with the seals going bad or not?    Just a thought.
 I did do a break in fire, my first small fire. then let it cool down.


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## branchburner (Oct 31, 2009)

No, a few years is no problem. The question is, was the stove ever actually used? My advice would be to hold off on the fires until the dealer looks at it.
They say they are going to install the heat shield. How soon, and why wasn't it done with the rest of the install? And why are they going to contact Hearthstone without even checking the install?


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## kenny chaos (Oct 31, 2009)

You said 2005 before.
Calm down and get your facts together.
I can't believe nobody here knows about the sealing of the seams on that stove.
Give others time to find this post.
It is Halloween.


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## gyrfalcon (Oct 31, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> Iam in northern illinois, closer to wisconson, its about 45 degrees here.
> I went to the dealer this morning, they are going to talk to the manufacture on Monday.
> I sent them the pictures, I dont know why they dont come out and look at it.
> 
> ...



Wow.  Don't let them get away with that "overfire" business.  That seems to be the dishonest dealer's method of choice to escape responsibility and make it the customer's fault.  I'd like to see the first-time burner who could overfire the stove on a relatively warm day with insufficiently seasoned oak the first day or two he ever used the stove.

Did you have that chimney swept before your install?  If not, might want to get a professional in to do that and be sure it isn't blocked.  If it isn't, then you've got a professional who can verify that that's not what's causing the problem.  Then take a lot of pictures.  Get some witnesses, preferably ones who've got some experience with woodstoves, and get yourself a moisture meter and measure how dry or not dry that wood is (for the purpose of verifying you really don't know what you're doing and couldn't possibly build something hot enough to overfire) If you don't get some serious attention from this dealer pronto, get an attorney to make some stiff formal noises at them.  And take careful notes of your conversations with them-- the person you talked to, date and time, what you said, what they said, etc.

Oh, and as for that heat shield, unless the Heritage is made totally differently than the Tribute,  they are *designed* to be put on by the customer, no more complicated than putting up a paper towel holder on your kitchen wall.

.


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## bren582 (Oct 31, 2009)

I would push the dealer to get there collective ass out to look at that stove and push to have Hearthstone evaluate the stove for damage if they continue to treat you like this. Over fire my butt... They didn't even look at the thing and they are blaming you out of the gate?  Did you pay by credit card?  I hope so as that will afford you some leverage over the schmuck dealer. In addition to a call to a local attorney I would call the credit card company and lodge a complaint with them as well. It sounds like you have been reasonable with the dealer and they are taking advantage.  As a floor model that has no doubt been moved around, I would also question if in fact the stove was damaged somehow resulting in leaking mortar joints between the stones..


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## DAKSY (Oct 31, 2009)

Their soapstone stoves are not sealed with gaskets except around the doors.
The Hearthstone stoves are sealed with a glue formulation that they came up with & copyrighted.
They sell it in caulk gun cartridges & in 5lb tubs, but at the factory it's pumped into the assembly 
area thru long tubes from a central vat. It breaks down with water, before it sets up, kinda like 
furnace cement, for easy clean up. There may be some voids in the seams,
but if you've got a good draft, the stove will suck air in, not blow smoke out...


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## new burner (Nov 1, 2009)

the picture was taken at start up of fire so, draft might not have been that good.
So more smoke comming out.
When fire is going, it does seem to burn wood fast, too much air.
I am starting to understand fire much better since talking to you guys. thankyou so much for all you input.

So I am guessing maybe in moving around there store, something did happen to this stove.

I can deffinately see a braided gasket where that smoke comes out the most, in that corner. If that is not suppose to be there, than someone did try to put a bandaid on something.  The braided gasket runs the length of that whole seam, between the cast iron and the stone.  the stone is not a good fit right there, I m starting to feel like a detective.
I'll have to do some reasure on how these stoves are made.   Anyone know of any good web sites, hearthstone web site doesnt really tell how they are made.


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## new burner (Nov 1, 2009)

they didnt install the heat shield at install because they said it wasnt in.  They also ordered the parts for the handles, but the handles arent in yet. So they are waitng for the handle parts to come in, and they will install them both. They dont want to make two trips. Thats what I was told.


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## branchburner (Nov 1, 2009)

I would try hard to contact Hearthstone directly (they will refer you back to a dealer, of course, but persist in explaining the problem with your dealer) or another Hearthstone dealer (maybe on online dealer like woodheatstoves.com) and try to get an opinion on your stove. Perhaps a local chimney sweep. It should be easy enough to verify if that rope gasket is proper.
I think you are correct to have doubts about the integrity of your dealer based on not fixing the handle as promised, not doing the heat shield, and suggesting you overfired the stove. It's enough BS to arouse suspicion that the stove is a rebuild rather than a floor model - not saying that it is, but makes me wonder why they wouldn't suspect a draft problem and just address it. To suggest overfiring and a need to contact Heartstone leads me to think they know something isn't right with the stove.


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## lazeedan (Nov 1, 2009)

I think you should insist they fix your stove. It shouldn't let air in or out through that seam.


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> Iam in northern illinois, closer to wisconson, its about 45 degrees here.
> I went to the dealer this morning, they are going to talk to the manufacture on Monday.
> I sent them the pictures, I dont know why they dont come out and look at it.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about the dealer issues. The excuses are pretty lame. At 45 the stove should start drafting well. From the description of fires it is pretty silly for this to be blamed on over-firing. Persist with Hearthstone if the dealer is dragging his feet. This is a good stove and should not be having these issues assuming the flue installation is proper.


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## branchburner (Nov 1, 2009)

You other guys with Hearthstones - do you have that same top gasket as in the pic?


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 1, 2009)

branchburner said:
			
		

> You other guys with Hearthstones - do you have that same top gasket as in the pic?



NO!  And with mine, the various pieces are fitted together so beautifully, there's not even any cement or anything else visible from the outside.

Until proven otherwise, I think the OP got tooken.


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## blacktop37 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hello welcome to wood burning. I have been burning 30 years. I had a new house 30 yrs ago. I came home to see the mason left the new chimney very short. Upon my complaint he said it met code. Well all was fine on a cold calm day. But if sorta cool or blustery the fireplace would be going fine then micro belches of smoke. Made mason add 2 ft. Zero problems.
5 years later then 25 years of smoke dragons. I always built very tall chimneys. The only time my stove did what yours is doing is when I  knew it was time for a sweep. The smallest restriction can change your draft. Even with wet wood if your draft was what it should be it would not smoke out. Think about people with open fireplaces how could they ever burn a fire with your draft conditions. Add some temporary stack to the hight and test. You will find no more smoke in the house. DONT GIVE UP GET IT RIGHT.
     Steve.


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## new burner (Nov 1, 2009)

there are cement smudges all over mine, and the pieces dont look like they fit so good.
I dont think any company would ship this stove out in that condition, floor model or not, I think something deffinetly happened at the store, that they are trying to cover up. only time will time.
I will be calling the manufacture Monday morning.


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## branchburner (Nov 1, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> there are cement smudges all over mine, and the pieces dont look like they fit so good.



Can you post a few more pics?


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## edthedawg (Nov 1, 2009)

i'm curious if that's combustion smoke coming out from inside, or if it's the cement offgassing.  but it wouldn't fill the room if NOT combustion smoke...  this is pretty wacked.  i'm kinda thinking this is a bad stove, very much HELPED by the dealer at some point.  maybe it got cannibalized for other fixes, or torn down to show the installers how to rebuild them, and then was poorly rebuilt...

Smoke should NOT NOT NOT be coming out like that.  period.

i don't know what branchburner is asking - i see no "gasket" in the top of the pic.  looks fairly much like my stove.


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 1, 2009)

Edthedawg said:
			
		

> i don't know what branchburner is asking - i see no "gasket" in the top of the pic.  looks fairly much like my stove.



The OP asked upthread if "that rope stuff" was used to seal the box, so Branchburner wanted to know if other Hearthstone owners had gasket material other places besides the door.


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## daryl (Nov 1, 2009)

Did you check if the insulation blanket on top is bunched up thus restricting your draft. Also if your stove has been moved around alot through the years the stones could have cracked there seals with the gasket cement and cast pcs.


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## meathead (Nov 1, 2009)

Man you are being taken for a ride. 

First, look up a schematic for the stove manufactured your year (2005 or 2006, you've said both so figure out which and look up that year) to determine if there are indeed "extra gaskets" in the stove. If there are you have a half a$$ rebuild, and it should be game over tell the guy to get it out of your house and give you your money back IMMEDIATELY. 

Second, go get some dry wood in a bundle from a local hardware store or grocery store - get 2 bundles. Try a fire with that just to be 100% positive the wood is not the issue. When the room still fills with smoke, call the dealer (preferably in writing by e-mail) and diplomatically list ALL of the issues you are having with the stove. Conclude this e-mail by asserting that you expect the issues rectified within 1 week's time, or you expect the dealer to retrieve the stove from your house and provide you with a 100% refund. If these expectations are not met, you will be contacting your bank / credit card company and requesting payment be stopped/reimbursed (doesn't have to be a credit card company, even just your neighborhood bank these days can be a real PITA to anyone who takes your money and doesn't give you what they were supposed to) - AND you will be filing complaints with the BBB and hearthstone.

If he fixes the issues, use the second dry bundle to re test. 

For the life of me I will never understand why so many people get shafted with a faulty stove or install, and then patiently wait around while their dealer services everyone whose money they don't have in pocket yet until there is finally an opening in their schedule to fix their faulty work. He took your money, get what you paid for or get your money back. *I'm not the suing type, but if he sold and installed a stove for you that is now leaking smoke into your house, he should be running a hand cart over there to haul it as far away from you as possible if that's what it takes...because brother you develop a cough from that smoke and the way the world works these days you could own his shop.* Whether or not you're the suing type...may not hurt for him to be made aware that the option perhaps crossed your mind while you were running around your house opening windows trying to catch your breath from all the smoke. I don’t like it…but it’s the way the world seems to be turning…sometimes you have to turn with it.

When he told you that you overfired your stove over the phone without seeing the stove, it was game on. This is not someone you want to let drag things out, because he is not an honest buisinessman. You need to get this wrapped up asap IMHO


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 1, 2009)

Here's what I don't get in the above post and some of the other speculation on this thread.

In the course of figuring out what the heck I was doing, I ended up with any number of smoldering, lousy fires with poor wood that filled the firebox with smoke.  Yet never once did so much as a particle of that smoke ooze out of the stove through the door gasket or the seams between the stones or anywhere else until I opened the door to fix the mess I'd made.  Why would even flat-out green wood cause smoke to come out through the seams?

The OP has said repeatedly he has no problem getting a decent fire going and sustaining it (350 stovetop temp, I believe he's said).  Doesn't that pretty much rule out any severe blockage that could be forcing the smoke out at high pressure?

And how would even high pressure cause smoke to leak out through properly cemented stones anyway?  Wouldn't you have to have one heck of a lot of pressure to force a separation between the cement and the stones?  Wouldn't the smoke in such a case be pretty much pouring out of the air intake at the back of the stove?  And if that were happening, where would the air be coming in to sustain the fire?

Like the OP, I'm not understanding the physics.


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## edthedawg (Nov 2, 2009)

gyrfalcon,

i think you nailed it pretty well.  i'm a happy Heritage owner too - and made a lot of messes when i started.  and NEVER saw smoke come out the way that looks in the pic.  not once.  ever.

it feels like a borked rebuild.  or the stove fell off the loading dock and everything shifted somehow.  who knows.  it ain't right tho.

i'd scream "it's a borked stove!" but i been wrong about that too many times in the past.

but what do i know - i'm just some random guy on the intarnett.  this fella needs to take his issue up w/ the ones he paid them greenbacks to...


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 2, 2009)

OK, Ed, that's what I think, too, but I don know nuthin'.   I've only been at this a couple of years with one tiny stove, high school physics was a longg time ago and I barely passed it anyway.

But how come, then, so many wise folks here are telling him it might be his wood or it might be draft problems?  I still think there's something I'm not getting.


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## meathead (Nov 2, 2009)

For the record - I'm betting it's his stove (that's why I said "when" the room still fills with smoke in my above post and not "if"). I just think he should try dry wood and have some extra bundled supermarket super dry stuff on hand because I'm betting that's the next thing his dealer will blame. If he has the stuff on hand, when the guy says "it's a wood problem screw off", the OP can tell him he is currently burning stuff from a plastic wrapper that measures around 4% moisture. I was just thinking it would eliminate one more possible way for the dealer to drag this thing out.


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## savageactor7 (Nov 2, 2009)

Our first stove was a Ben Franklin with a dozen small isinglass windows. You could still have a a good drafting fire with a window partly broken or totally removed. I mention that because now that I see the pictures of smoke coming off the stove and read about questionable stove seals. *You still have a draft problem.*

If you have trees too close to the house that are same size or taller than the chimney they could affect a chimneys draft. 

new burner as a last resort while the stove is cold look inside right above the door and make sure that insulated fiber like fire proof board is not blocking smoke exit. Long ago the dealer could have shown a customer how easy it was to remove/replace, got distracted by a phone call or something and forgot to replace it all the way. If you feel something that's loose up there try to manipulate toward the back of the stove.


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## Highbeam (Nov 2, 2009)

The heritage only has a hard fiber board cotter pinned to the air tubes so it won't block the exit. No crappy wool blanket up there like with some models.

The heritage is not a cemented together stove exactly. There is cement but let me explain. The sides of each stone are grooved to accept a steel flat bar which is wrapped with a cloth like graphite colored woven sleeve. This steel "biscuit" sets in the groove of the adjacent stone to lock the two together. Prior to inserting the biscuit and shoving the two stones together, the grooves are filled with copious amounts of cement which oozes out of the joint upon assembly and should be cleaned from the outside and only smeared off on the inside. This is how they seal the stones in the middle of the stove. On the corners I am not certain but I do know that there is a piece of that flat rope gasket material between the corner casting and the stone since I can see a little bit on mine. The top of the stove is a whole unit and those top three stones have the visible grooves on their sides if you look closely. I have never seen any gasket material on any of the top stones and I've looked all around while vacuuming out that groove.

I fully expect the stove to be an airtight sealed unit with regards to the outer shell. The ONLY air entering or leaving the stove should be through the 3" hole in the back and the flue pipe. The stove should always operate under vacuum so that if a door is opened, or a seam failure exists, that room air is sucked into the stove. 

I think you have at least two problems. I never had any smoke come from my new heritage. Since you have double wall pipe mysteriously bolted to the stove collar, that won't make much any smell. I only smelled a slight pancake griddle smell as mine first seasoned. 

The cement smudges on the outside of the stove is very unhearthstone. The shop probably rebuilt it. Did you get a steep discount? Your dealer probably is blowing you off now and hoping you go away. 

I installed my rear heatshield following the instructions included. It was a snap, and it just screws on.


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## branchburner (Nov 2, 2009)

Yeah, it sounds like this stove fell off the back of a truck, literally. I bet the dealer figured if the rebuild was leaky it would burn hot and fast and nobody would be the wiser. He wasn't counting on a poor draft.


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## new burner (Nov 2, 2009)

Thankyou guys for so much help and information. I only got a 20 % discount on the floor model. About 500 dollars.
I called the dealer again today, got into an arguing match. Only to here about bad drafts. I sent them an email stating what was wrong with the stove, and requesting them to come pick it up.  I am also going to send a certified letter. And check with the bank on stopping payment. I hope the bank can do something, because I did pay with a check.

I am totally with you guys, that it should not be leaking at all. And I dont think the manufacturer would send the the stove out like that.

I'll keep you all posted on whats happening with the stove.  I am getting really stressed about this whole situation.

Thanks again, 
Lynn


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## Highbeam (Nov 2, 2009)

One more tidbit that you might find interesting. On the pallet that the new stove is bolted to a number is written with a black marker. I am not sure where I read this but that number is the air infiltration figure for that particular stove. They actually hook each stove up and put a vacuum on it, with a criteria for a pass/fail test. They write the # on the pallet. 

Bottom line is that your stove would have failed the suck test and been taken off the line just like a bad golden goose egg at the willy wonka chocolate factory.

Good luck stopping that check, I would make that a high priority.


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## Frostbit (Nov 2, 2009)

At this point it would behoove you to do a few things. You mentioned in one of  your first posts the sight of visible cement smeared on various places of the stove. Take good digital pics of all of these, as well as a video. Take a video of the smoke emitting from the joints when it is doing so. Archive all of this. In the event this ends up in litigation, you have some damning evidence to show. 

The fact that the guy won't come out and see it doing what it is not supposed to do speaks volumes. 

When you do get ahold of someone at Hearthstone, ask them to come over here and read this thread. I think they would like to make it all good, considering the consequences. Actually, it surprises me they are not on it already.


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## Frostbit (Nov 2, 2009)

I took the liberty to search and find an actual website for the company you bought your Heritage from.

I have linked their "about us" information from that site. Note they speak highly of their "customer service"

http://www.fireplacesandbarbeque.com/about.php


We fellow inmates can be a relentless sort. Best of luck.


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## thinkxingu (Nov 3, 2009)

Yo.
     Ditto on the 'call Hearthstone' suggestion.  In fact, I'm not sure why you haven't already--at the very least, they can confirm that the stove is right or wrong.

S


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## summit (Nov 3, 2009)

take the pipes apart and check inside... I did an embarrassing install (in my early days in the biz , when i did not know any better) .... i put together a DW telescopic pipe kit and forgot about the hardware / trim package that was encased inside the pipe kit in a plastic bag.. the first few fires for these poor folks smoldered like hell, and then smelled like plastic when the bag eventually melted thru.


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## new burner (Nov 3, 2009)

The dealer is going to come out and check the draft. I am gunna have to play their game for now. Maybe when they see for them selves whats going on, they get the picture.
Dealer said they emailed the pictures to hearthstone, and hearthstone said that is a common problem. Its a bad draft.
and emailed some technical bulletins.
I told them to come out and fix it, if they think its only draft.
But that I wanted the stove to run like its suppose to. If they fix the draft, I think it will burn short and hot.
It already does, it doesnt take much wood to get up to 350.

I looked to see if that board above the tubes was blocking, its not. Its cotter pinned in though. Its glued or cemented in.


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## new burner (Nov 3, 2009)

oops ment to say not cotter pinned in


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## karri0n (Nov 3, 2009)

Tell them to get the thing out of your house. You do have a bad draft, but there's no damn way smoke should be coming out of the seams. The dealer did a crappy rebuild or repair job on this stove and, therefore, has been dishonest from the start. You absolutely do NOT have to play their game.


I don't believe for a second that Hearthstone said smoke leaking out of the seams is a common problem.


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## Highbeam (Nov 3, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> oops ment to say not cotter pinned in



The very fact that the cotter pins are missing tells you the story. Why are they missing you might ask? It's because the goon that rebuilt this stove didn't put them back. Your baffle should have never been removed from the stove. 

Have you not emailed JimC (hearthstone tech) or spoken with Hearthstone yet?


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## meathead (Nov 3, 2009)

Get some hearthstone contacts (I'd start with whoever Jim C is) and get the info from them yourself.


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 3, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> I don't believe for a second that Hearthstone said smoke leaking out of the seams is a common problem.



Heh.  If it was a "common problem," Hearthstone would have gone out of business long ago.


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 3, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> oops ment to say not cotter pinned in



Take a picture of it!


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## new burner (Nov 3, 2009)

who is jim c and what is his email address?    whenever i call hearthstone all i get is the recorded message. 
Does anyone have a phone number, that has a person on the other end?


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## Highbeam (Nov 4, 2009)

I have corresponded with Jim and find him to be an excellent resource. I looked really hard at my stove top last night and find no gasket material between the top stones and the perimeter frame.


Copied from another thread this site..... 

"FYI,
here is jims email
jcasavant@hearthstonestoves.com woodstove expert hearthstone
800) 827-8683 ext 235

he is a very good guy and responds to (my emails at least) very quikly
 Signature 

Dave Gault
WoodHeatStoves.com
blog.woodheatstoves.com"


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm pretty new at this too. But even if the stove insn't "sealed" it shouldn't leak. Once I get a draft going I can open the door reload and leave the door open the smoke doesn't come into the house.  The draft should and does suck it up the flu.  Maybe there is a combination of issues? 

But maybe by now you've got an answer.


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

thankyou for the email address highbeam.
the gasket I see is the not on top of the stove, its on the side where the smoke is comming out of the box. On the side in the upper corner.


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

Here is a picture of the inside of the stove.


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## Highbeam (Nov 4, 2009)

How about another photo right down the middle. The cotter pins should run through the center tube nearer the center and the front tube has a pin right in the middle holding that bracket in place. I see that cement you spoke of beside the baffle. 

You sure are burning cleanly. The cast iron secondary manifold on mine always has a black or dark brown color to it.


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## Fsappo (Nov 4, 2009)

Just spoke to Jim 2 minutes ago.  Great guy, always ready to help, as is Ray, the gas technician.  Just takes em a while to get back to me this time of year


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

this is the top of the board, I put my camera up there with a flash light. Is it suppose to have that black shiney, paint stuff up there?  Its sprrayed around the top of the box and a bit by the doors. Looks like gloss black spay paint.


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

center of the stove.


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

Some cement smudges on the cast, you can see a bit of the black paint by the door, and some splatters on the upper part of the cast iron.  the black paint stuff is mostly on the inside upper part of the box, and all around the inside upper corners. does your have the shinney black paint stuff?


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

The inside is clean because I havent had but a few fires.


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## new burner (Nov 4, 2009)

I looking at some of my pictures, Ive noticed that their are some pretty clear finger prints, in the cement . 
Guess I'll know for sure who did the cementing.


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## Highbeam (Nov 4, 2009)

I have no black paint anywhere inside my stove except the original cast iron secondary manifold was painted flat black. The top of my baffle is always the same color as my firebox. I was up above the baffle before I ever burnt my stove and everything was stone colored, cement, colored, or painted cast iron. The baffle top was white.  

The photo of the inside looks like the spray paint streaks but I think it really is just the air leaks coming into the stove and causing funky deposits. If the leaks weren't there then I suspect that the black color would be uniform. Looks more like creosote than paint.

When professionals repaint these stoves they mask off all the stone and then spray them. Maybe the cast iron side door frame needed to be touched up and that's where the overspray came from. 

Your front air tube is drilled for a cotter pin but I don't see the holes in the middle tube which is where I have two additional cotter pin holes. Jim C will have insight as to when and if the design change took place.

It looks pretty fubar. We'll need to see what the manufacturer and the dealer say.


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## meathead (Nov 4, 2009)

WOW

That last pic of the cement and paint splatter on the enameled cast is laughable. No way that thing left the factory like that. I hope you are e-mailing hearthstone these too


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## tutu_sue (Nov 4, 2009)

I had an experience where an air leak left shiny black creosote exactly like that.  It was like laquer and would not come off no matter what.  That was a leak where a lot of air was getting IN not out.  

I found the leak at night in pitch black darkness with my husband shining a very bright huge maglight all around the outside while I had my head inside the door.  If that black stuff is under the top and above the baffle, air is getting inside the stove in a BIG big way.  I would thoroughly check the top seals of the of the front and side doors, the top of the door frames, the rear vent frame and rear vent cover and especially the connection of your stove pipe to the stove.  On my stove I have the stove pipe adapter and goes down so I can only fit a finger between the pipe and the stop of the stove.  Yours looks way higher than that.  Who knows maybe so much air is getting in that the draft is being overpowered by the airleak and creating a whirlwind of smoke in the stove...

Another test would be to build a hot fire and then stick something that smokes like a cigar or incense to the pipe and vents and see if the smoke gets sucked in.  I had better luck with the light thing though and found the problem fast.


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## new burner (Nov 5, 2009)

tu tu sue, 
You just made my day, The black stuff is real heavey in the upper corners of the stove. And above those tubes.
I can only see the smoke come out, when the stove is cold. When I mess up starting a fire, and it goes out. When there is not a good draw up the stove pipe yet. I would say that is absolute proof that this stove is messed up.
I have e-mailed JC at hearthstone, and sent many pictures. The guy from the dealer still has'nt called me back or even come to look at the stove.  I'm calling the dealer again tomarrow, and he best get his ass out here.

Weird thing is most of those cement smudges didnt show up until I had a fire in the stove. Maybe they were wiped off enough to where you couldnt see them. Then when they got hot, and started to cure they became more visible. I dont know.
I just wanted a nice stove to warm the house.  
Thank you all so much.   I have learned so much.
I'll let you know what goes down.


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## branchburner (Nov 5, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> the picture was taken at start up of fire so, draft might not have been that good.
> So more smoke coming out.
> When fire is going, it does seem to burn wood fast, too much air.
> ...
> The braided gasket runs the length of that whole seam, between the cast iron and the stone.  the stone is not a good fit right there, I m starting to feel like a detective.



I think your detective work is paying off. At a cold start the poor draft is causing smoke, and the poor seal is allowing it to leak. Once the draft is established the stove starts burning too hot because of the leak, but is forming the film of creosote where the cool air is being sucked in.

I don't know if your bank stopped payment on your check, but I think you now have clear evidence that you were knowingly sold a faulty stove.


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## edthedawg (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm mostly lurking on this thread - fairly convinced this is a poorly re-constructed stove along w/ some questionable operation practices.  The inside pix look nice and clean (good burn), but then the pix above the board (fulla shiny creosote) and the accompanying description of when the smoking occurs (_"When I mess up starting a fire, and it goes out. When there is not a good draw up the stove pipe yet..."_) lead me to seriously question the way this potentially defective stove is being fueled and operated...

And I have no financial stake in the matter, mind you.

The dealer seems to have a rather significant one.

So it's kinda easy to see where he might get a bit defensive, in light of the evidence being produced.  Hopefully the damning evidence of the half-assed rebuild is enough to convince him and/or the mfr. of the issues.

One suggestion on operating - no matter what you're burning or how you've been burning it - get that sucker hotter, faster.  Don't be afraid to heat it up.  You cannot possibly heat it up so fast as to cause yourself a problem whereby the stove will shatter and collapse in on itself.  

get it hot, keep it hot, run it hot.  good luck to you...


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## branchburner (Nov 5, 2009)

Edthedawg said:
			
		

> get it hot, keep it hot, run it hot.  good luck to you...



Only if you plan to keep the stove. If you plan to return it, stop using it altogether. I suspect the dealer is rooting for evidence of overfiring.


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## tutu_sue (Nov 5, 2009)

I had a little shmear of cement show up on the top casting.  Nothing to write home about...


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## karri0n (Nov 9, 2009)

Any new news on this???


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## new burner (Nov 9, 2009)

I talked to JC, technical support at hearthstone. Well through e-mail, he didnt return any phone calls.
He says it sounds like I have a draft problem. I sent him many pictures also. He still says That I have a draft problem and that I should work with the dealer. I asked if the stove should be airtight. He says a better word would be combution control. So he didnt really answer the question.
The dealer is coming out Wednessday to install a new cap on the chimney, to help with draft.

My thoughts on the matter are, if they fix the draft problem, if there is one, I will be going through a lot of wood. And with bad air leaks in the stove, I wont be getting any kind of controlled combustion.
I have sent letters to the dealer informing him of the problem, (certified and e-mail) as to leave a paper trail.
Because it looks like this very well might go to court.

The dealer assured me that if they cant fix the problem, they will send the stove back to Hearthstone and I will get a new stove. Sending threatening letters did help to get the dealer to move on this . I think the only way to fix the stove would be to rebuild it. And I paid for a new stove not a rebuilt. But thats just my opinoin.

Hearthstone really doesnt seem to care much about the situation. I would never recomend anyone buy one of
these stoves. Go with the fireside, I wish I did.

I have been so concerned with the stove that I havent even payed much attention to the install. Well over the weekend it was nice outside. I was out in the yard doing yard work. So I looked up to check out the chimney. Flashing glued down right over the shingles, dam it ! more problems. Even I know the top part of the flashing should be under the shigles. That is deffinately going to leak.
Now you know I have go into the attic to check that out also, I should have done it right away anyway, but the stove problems had me preoccupied. 
The opening for the stove pipe is not framed out, no fire stop radiation shield is installed, no attic insulation shield either. And with no brace on the pipe outside, whats holding it in place? The bottom of the stove pipe and the roof flashing?

Welcome to my nightmare!


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## new burner (Nov 9, 2009)

roof picture


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## begreen (Nov 9, 2009)

With the insulation in the way, there isn't a way to see how it was installed. However, the support box needs to be absolutely clean, no sawdust or insulation in there. Then it should have an insulation shield added. As for the outside brace, there should be a brace for every 5 ft the flue extends above the roof.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 9, 2009)

definitely a botched installation. No question that the flashing should be under the shingles, and the attic insulation shield needs to be installed. Can we see the rest of the exterior chimney pics from a distance?


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## daryl (Nov 9, 2009)

Call your local inspector. Not a safe install document everything.I have no idea how your chimney is staying in place unless they screwed it at the flashing or used a roof support.
How far does the pipe come out of the roof. If it is a 8/12 pitch it should be 104" tall.That needs a roof brace kit. If you do not have that much sticking out that could be your drafting issue.


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## Highbeam (Nov 9, 2009)

Mighty steep roof and the stove is at the eave side of the house. Does the chimney meet minimum height specs? 10/2/3 rule? 

Our stoves are not "airtight" as an old time stove would be. There is always a wide open leak of secondary combustion air. The seams should be sealed of course, I don't think JC would tell you otherwise. 

By Fireside did you mean you should have bought a fireview? Nice stove also.


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## meathead (Nov 9, 2009)

WOW didn't even flash it. Get that thing outa there. The whole thing. 

Daryl is right - have a local inspector look at it if you can, and have him put in writing everything that is wrong with it. That will go a long way in your conversations with your dealer

Too bad hearthstone didn't get in your corner at all. Obviously they have to side with their dealer wherever possible...but a little support would be nice


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 9, 2009)

I would say once this is resolved, have someone come in and flash the roof right, and put a storm collar around the pipe and support box. That will bring that part up to code. My guess is if they did that part wrong, they got the chimney hight wrong too, which is why this stove is showing all its defects. If the chimney was installed properly, you would have never likley noticed the problems that are happing. The stove is in bad shape, no question about it, but your main complaint on this forum would been that the cement was sloppy. I agree with Jim C @ hearthstone that this is draft related, and by the looks of the installers they did not know there head from a hole in the wall. Lets put it this way, if you had a stove that did not have any leaks in the top plate area, and you lit it up, the smoke would come out somewhere else, most likely through the air intake, the door gasket, the pipe/stove joint, the pipe joints or somewhere else. The gap in the stove just happens to be the place of least resistance. At this moment, the stove is not my biggest concern, even though it looks jacked up, its the chimney. Any stove on a improperly installed/designed chimney is not going to work. On the "glass half full" scenario, its a good thing the stove told you it had a bad spot and the chimney is not doing its job, because now you can address both issues.


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## new burner (Nov 9, 2009)

My guess is the pipe outside is about 5 of 6 feet.
I dont have a picture of the whole thing, I'll take one tomarrow and post it.
Its too dark outside already to take another picture.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 9, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> My guess is the pipe outside is about 5 of 6 feet.
> I dont have a picture of the whole thing, I'll take one tomarrow and post it.
> Its too dark outside already to take another picture.



the math is simple. the chimney needs to be 2' above anything within 10'

10' horizontal on a 10/12 pitch is 100". 100" + 24" is 124". That scenario would require 11' of pipe from the roof line to the top of the chimney cap. The short chimney is most of the issue here. Doesnt excuse the condition of the stove, but the stove is not the issue. The shabby installation is the issue. These guys did a real bad hack installation.

If they bring out a brand new heritage, and install it on that same pipe. The issues would be the same, but the smoke would be coming out somewhere else.


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## blacktop37 (Nov 10, 2009)

Dont blame Hearthstone for your short chimney. Please reread my earlier post. You have a good stove from a good company. That tall roofline can cause many strange problems with the draft. Can you angle the chimney towards the top of the ridge? It would mke it a warmer pipe and easier to clean. Whatever it takes you need to get it right and it will be problem free for years.
  Dont Give UP!


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## new burner (Nov 10, 2009)

here is another picture from outside.


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## new burner (Nov 10, 2009)

blacktop,
you are right its not Hearthstones fault about the chimney. That was done by the dealer, and not very well. It is totally messed up.
But fixing the draft will only mask the other problems with the stove. The draft does need to be delt with.
The stove is messed up though. Whether or not the stove problems were caused from the dealer, manufacturer, or in shipping, I dont know.
But no one wants to fess up.


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## new burner (Nov 10, 2009)

does anyone know if there is a serial number stamped on the stove, other than the tag in the back?
I seen some numbers stamped on the inside, opposit of the side door.


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## tutu_sue (Nov 10, 2009)

I recall there being a certificate that was in an envelope with the owner's manual (a must read), may have had serial number on it.  Not positive though. How tall is your venting system overall?


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## Fsappo (Nov 10, 2009)

Holy moly.  I'm not one to condemn a fellow brick and mortar retailer but from stove to chimney cap you got hosed.  Like someone else suggested in another thread, Video the stove in action and Youtube it. The dealer should be ashamed, the chimney redone with proper height and bracing, and attic insulation shield and god(sorry muslims) knows what else they missed.  Also, I would demand a new stove NOW before the shop gets any busier.  That is a disgrace to our industry


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 10, 2009)

Franks said:
			
		

> Holy moly.  I'm not one to condemn a fellow brick and mortar retailer but from stove to chimney cap you got hosed.  Like someone else suggested in another thread, Video the stove in action and Youtube it. The dealer should be ashamed, the chimney redone with proper height and bracing, and attic insulation shield and god(sorry muslims) knows what else they missed.  Also, I would demand a new stove NOW before the shop gets any busier.  That is a disgrace to our industry



Very well said.  Agree entirely.

(PS Muslims actually believe in God.  So do Jews, just in case that was also unclear.)


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## Fsappo (Nov 10, 2009)

I keep forgetting that


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## new burner (Nov 10, 2009)

I didnt get any kind of a certificate in the envelope


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## Fsappo (Nov 10, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> I didnt get any kind of a certificate in the envelope



What certificate?


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## new burner (Nov 10, 2009)

whats the certificate say?  tu tu sue


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## tutu_sue (Nov 11, 2009)

The baby's asleep in the room now.  I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get it.


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## tutu_sue (Nov 11, 2009)

Okay I scanned the certificate and the Hearthstone Quality Assurance Inspection Checklist. There was also the owner's manual and warranty registration but I didn't scan those.  My stove was made in early 2006.


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## Highbeam (Nov 11, 2009)

Funny to read the checklist.

Things like bolts to pallet, cracks, leak test, etc. that are exactly what this thread is all about.


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## REF1 (Nov 11, 2009)

I've learned quite a bit in reading this discussion. Fairly convinced me of a few things in my own situation.


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

I tood some more pictures in the attic, and I moved the insulation away from the pipe.


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 12, 2009)

They must have used a roof support. But they still should have framed the opening. And by now I'm sure you realize your missing the attic insulation shield, which, according to selkirk, is extremely important.

Did you already post pics of the interior of the ceiling?


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## Fsappo (Nov 12, 2009)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> The baby's asleep in the room now.  I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get it.



Is the stove burning in the same room as the sleeping baby?!?


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

This is what has been going on with my stove. Installers came back out yesterday and installed a new door handle and the heat shield.
They took some pictures of the stove with thier phone. I told them that the chimney might be to short, that should be 8and a half feet tall(104'')
They said it should be tall enough. They said it is over ten feet away from the roof , and it should be good. they said it is 5ft tall. I also asked why the chimney stove pipe going through the chimney is not framed out in the attic. They said only the square mount gets framed out not the round one.
I also asked why the roof flashing was not flashed. They told me it was under the shingles, they said the top half of the flashing is about 10 inches longer, so ten inches of flashing is actually under the shingles. I will get up on the roof this weekend and check. As for the attic, well thats just crazy.


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

I called the dealer while the installer were still at the house.  I asked the dealer about the frameing in the attic, and a heat shield, and a insulation shield. He said he would look into it. I let him know I would be calling the inspectors out to look at it.


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## branchburner (Nov 12, 2009)

What are they saying about the stove itself: the leaking seams, and the braided rope gasket that indicates the stove was damaged and rebuilt?


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

I talked to the dealer again this morning, he said he talked with hearthstone and they are going to send some cement out to try and they will try and seal the stove. and put a different chimney cap on. And if that doesent work they will send out a new stove.  Will see what happens, I have lost faith in these guys.
I dont believe a word the dealer says. I dont think they know what they are doing.


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 12, 2009)

something has to be framed either the ceiling support or a roof support. Of course I just going be the directions on the selkirk website. Maybe there's another way, but that doesn't seem right. I would still get an inspector even if it was the fire dept. I'm sure they will come out for short change. probably even for free.


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## Fsappo (Nov 12, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> I talked to the dealer again this morning, he said he talked with hearthstone and they are going to send some cement out to try and they will try and seal the stove. and put a different chimney cap on. And if that doesent work they will send out a new stove.  Will see what happens, I have lost faith in these guys.
> I dont believe a word the dealer says. I dont think they know what they are doing.



Jeebus...cement?  Tell them you want to job redone 100% right with a new stove or you will DEMAND 100% refund, them to remove their work and the house brought back to it's original condition.  Do the You Tube video thing...publicity may be the only thing they listen to


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## emurphy@eclumber.com (Nov 12, 2009)

Unfortunetly we in the building material industry often see similar stuff happen. Anyone can sell a product, it's not until there is an issue, that you will test the salt of the dealer / retailer that you are doing business with.  Publicity can do a couple of things. It will either cause them to be re-energized to fix the issue,  or it will prevent another unsuspecting customer from having an issue that doesn't get fixed.

Hope all turns out well.


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

branchburner,
They dont seem to be taking it to seriuslly. I have been dealing with the owner of the store. He is the one that sold me the stove. I told him it seems as if someone tried to rebuild it. I wish he would come out and look at it. But I dont think they know what they are doing. I do have one more question for everyone though.
The air wash system for the glass, my best guess would be that is the space in the front of the door, is that suppose to be be an open airway, or is it suppose to be sealed?  On mine when I put my hand ontop of it,  It is caulked, sealed shut.  Is that how yours is?


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

here is a picture of the space I'm talking about, I circled it . Is this suppose to be an open airway?


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## Slow1 (Nov 12, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> I do have one more question for everyone though.
> The air wash system for the glass, my best guess would be that is the space in the front of the door, is that suppose to be be an open airway, or is it suppose to be sealed?  On mine when I put my hand ontop of it,  It is caulked, sealed shut.  Is that how yours is?



Pictures... always best for these things.  I know it is hard to actually get in there and get the shot, but if you take a few you will almost certainly get the best answers.

Edit: Ha!  You beat me to it by a few seconds!


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 12, 2009)

Man this installation is half ass. 

I for the record never said that that the stove was not messed up, i stated that the chimney being messed up is what told the OP that he had a problem. This is fortunate actually at this point. If the stove didnt leak smoke everywhere this installation might have gone unnoticed for some amount of time. The insulation and woodchips inside the box could have caused a fire. 

Now, here is how i would handle the stove issue:

1) i doubt seriously that the stove was rebuilt at the shop. Most shops dont have time to deal with that and hearthstones are a pain in the butt to rebuild. 
2) The stove probably left the factory that way for what ever reason QC missed it. The door handles of that year model had issues that we all know about. Both issues can be solved with some of there cement and a new 2008-2009 door assembly. 
3) Did the OP get a deal on the stove? Would the same deal apply if he wanted a 2009 model? If the answer is no, then some cement to close the gaps might be acceptable. If he wants to spend money on the non floor display and get a brand new one, that should be a option too. 
4) The excess cement on the castings can be removed by laying a wet rag on the cement, and let it soak for a half hour. It will come off fairly easily after that.

Once again, if the OP wants a 2009 model in a crate , and the dealer wants to charge more for that, then that should be a option.
If the owner wants to keep the stove at the dicounted rate, and fix a few things so save money that should be a option as well
The stove will work fine once the chimney is up to par, even in its current state. The draft may dilute a little with the leakage, but overall it will work well. I personally would fill the gap that is left there and call it a day.

Here is where things are going to get interesting. I wonder what the OP is going to say when the dealer wants to charge him for another $400 worth of pipe that he should have sold you in the first place.


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## new burner (Nov 12, 2009)

Murph 
I looked on the web site also, for the chimney install derections. It is suppose to be framed out, and either nailed or screwed into the frameing. Not just sitting on drywall.  Drywall is not a support. Its suppose to be a support.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 12, 2009)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> Okay I scanned the certificate and the Hearthstone Quality Assurance Inspection Checklist. There was also the owner's manual and warranty registration but I didn't scan those.  My stove was made in early 2006.



This stuff dissapears off of floor models all the time . especially if its been around a while.


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## Highbeam (Nov 12, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> here is a picture of the space I'm talking about, I circled it . Is this suppose to be an open airway?



That space is for the air wash. Air runs from the primary air contol lever beneath the stove, up the side castings on either side of the front door, and then pours out through that space. Primary air also squirts out through the little hole in the doghouse. I don't see any cement. The key thing is that the air feeding that space comes from the sides. 

The air wash on my stove works great.


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## Slow1 (Nov 12, 2009)

You know... thought just occurred to me.  Perhaps OP should take a trip to a stove shop that has one of these stoves on display and get a really close look at it.  May answer a lot of questions as to what should be where and how it should look.  Certainly major deviations should become clearer rather quickly (I'd take my camera with me to take pictures of the reference model since my memory is rather poor).


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## tutu_sue (Nov 12, 2009)

Ya got at least 13 feet of pipe there?  That is minimum for that stove.  I have almost 14 and getting a bit of smoke when I open the door, so I just ordered another two feet.


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 14, 2009)

tutu_sue said:
			
		

> Ya got at least 13 feet of pipe there?  That is minimum for that stove.  I have almost 14 and getting a bit of smoke when I open the door, so I just ordered another two feet.



the minimum for the stove is just that, the minimum. The 10-2-3 rule takes precedence of the minimum stated by the manufacture. You have to be 2' higher then anything withing 10', and in this case, no less then 13'.


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## begreen (Nov 14, 2009)

Oy,  what is holding the support box in place in this installation? Here's a picture from the Simpson installation manual. We have the round support box. This is how ours is installed.


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## new burner (Nov 17, 2009)

update on my stove,

The dealer has spoken with heathstone again and they have agreed to send out a new stove. The dealer is going to fix the chimney properly also.  Right now I think the pipe is 14ft total. He has agreed to frame out the attic install and put in an insulation shield.
It has taken a bit of time to get something done but I am glad this ordeal will come to an end soon.
I just hope the new stove will not arive damaged. I will check it with a fine toothed comb, before it ever gets in the house.
I'll post some pictures when everthing is done.


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## begreen (Nov 17, 2009)

Great, sounds like good progress. 

Note, if they are going to frame it out, be sure they use long deck screws instead of nails for the framing. Maybe have some 3.5" screws on hand. Your ceiling sheetrock will thank you.

PS: Don't forget the roof bracing for the flue.


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## gyrfalcon (Nov 17, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> update on my stove,
> 
> The dealer has spoken with heathstone again and they have agreed to send out a new stove. The dealer is going to fix the chimney properly also.  Right now I think the pipe is 14ft total. He has agreed to frame out the attic install and put in an insulation shield.
> It has taken a bit of time to get something done but I am glad this ordeal will come to an end soon.
> ...



Oh, that's really good to hear!

Just a thought-- you might want to make sure any even verbal agreement you make with the dealer is contingent on the chimney install passing muster with the local inspector.  If there isn't such a thing where you are, make it either the fire dept. or somebody from your home insurance co.  Personally, I just wouldn't trust the people who screwed up that chimney to begin with to fix it right and I'd want some expert back-up before approving the fix.


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## new burner (Dec 3, 2009)

I spoke with the dealer yesterday, he said the stove should be in soon. They expect to do the install next week sometime.


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## struggle (Dec 16, 2009)

Any update on this Newburner?


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## new burner (Dec 17, 2009)

They are installing the stove right now.  I'll take some pictures soon.
The new stove looks completely different. Much better.


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## new burner (Dec 18, 2009)

I'll get some pictures up in a day or two. The new stove was delivered today, and installed. The stove is so much different, than the other one. It looks very nice.
I made a small fire this evening, and everthing seems to be ok with the stove. I am very happy to have a good stove.

But I still have an install problem. A big one. I didnt know that I was suppose to follow the installers into the attic to make sure they did their job.
The opening in the attic is still not framed out right.  Insullation was left all inside the insulation shield. And the ring in the attic was screwed to the somewhat framing with one screw. I frameding it out properly, and secured it. 
The bigger problem is the roof. It was leaking. It hasnt leaked into the attic, just the wood on the roof. It is spongey and holding water. Its 5/8 press board and swelling. It needs to be replaced. 
I told the dealer about the roof, and the install. I will be calling a roofer tomarrow to fix the roof. There is no way I will let anyone from that store try and fix my roof, when they cant even frame the attic out right, or put flashing under shingles. The dealer will get a bill for the repairs and a roof brace that they had no intention of even installing.

Im glad the stove is ok. And it is a very nice stove.
I think that I just picked a bad dealer. I'm going to call the dealer again tomarrow and tell him that I'm calling a roofer to do the repairs. I do not want to deal with this dealer anymore. They seem to know very little about stoves or how to install them.


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## gyrfalcon (Dec 18, 2009)

new burner said:
			
		

> I'll get some pictures up in a day or two. The new stove was delivered today, and installed. The stove is so much different, than the other one. It looks very nice.
> I made a small fire this evening, and everthing seems to be ok with the stove. I am very happy to have a good stove.
> 
> But I still have an install problem. A big one. I didnt know that I was suppose to follow the installers into the attic to make sure they did their job.
> ...



Oh, man.  You really got screwed by a bunch of incompetents right down the line.  After you've gotten everything you think you can get from the dealer, call the Better Business Bureau and the state attorney general's office for consumer isssues and file complaints.

Just think, you had the resources and knowledge to suspect something wasn't right, come here and find out you were right.  What about the poor bastard down the road who doesn't?  He/she could lose the house to a fire.  Gah!


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## new burner (Dec 18, 2009)

One more thing I wanted to say about the install, The black pipe that attaches to the stove had gotten scratched a little when taking the old stove out, and putting the new one in.  It had gotten scratched on the upper pipe, the adjustable section.
Well one of the installers decided he was going to fix it up a bit. He got a can of spray paint out of his bag, and started shaking it up.
I dont know what he was thinking. I stopped him before he started spraying away.
I would have had paint on the walls, and falling on the stove. The scratches dont bother me. The paint everywhere would bother me.
I guess you really do need to follow these guys around, I just didnt get that memo.

I found the whole spray paint thing kinda funny, so I thought a little humor would be good. What was this guy thinking?
I'm glad I stopped him though. If I had'nt, it would not be so funny.

I'll  get some pictures up tomorrow.


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## begreen (Dec 18, 2009)

What a bummer. Put it in writing and follow up with the phone call. Document everything. Get a statement from the roof repair guy and take many pictures. The last thing you want is their word against yours. Let the bulk of the evidence speak for itself.

Also, post some current shots, inside and outside of the entire installation. Best to have a looksee here at the so called fixes.


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## struggle (Dec 20, 2009)

Glad you got a new stove.  I have back drafted my Mansfield several times and the only place I got smoke out of was from the air-intake. Never between stones.

You will be far more educated on this and future purchases after what you have gone through and that applies to all things in general.


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