# Firewood Lawsuit



## Gehl Family (May 16, 2011)

Here is the scenario:

Last fall, I was working on topping off the wood pile.  I noticed some dead trees on my neighbor's property and asked for permission to take the wood.  She (the wife) said the would be fine.  To be careful and do not cut anything that is live.  I cut down somewhere between 3 to 5 trees that were about 8 to 10 inches in diameter maybe 20 feet high.   They were dead, but still standing.  I might have gotten 2 facecord at the most.

Fast forward to a month ago when my neighbor (the husband) came over very angry accusing me of cutting down his trees and tricking his wife into giving me permission.  He can be a very difficult person to talk to esp. when he is mad.  We had two "discussions" both of which ended when he became very vulgar and it was clear he was not looking to resolve the issue, just blow off steam. 

I had not heard anything in a couple weeks and then i got a letter in the mail stating he was suing me in small claims.  He is suing me for $1200.  The letter states that i "cut down live trees instead of dead ones."  I have been heating with wood for a long time and I actually run a small log splitting service, so i know when i am dealing with dead wood.  A live tree would have been of no use to me as i was using it to heat the house that same year. 

I know if i could get pictures of the stumps it would help my case, but i dont think i should go on the property even to "gather evidence."

Have any of you had any experience with a situation like this?  Any thoughts on how to move forward?


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## muncybob (May 16, 2011)

Wow, glad he's no neighbor of mine! I would try to get as much evidence as possible and would probably take pictures when they are not home.....he doesn't have his land posted does he?  What's the wife have to say about her verbal consent? Doesn't the 6 month or so delay in approaching you on this come into play somehow?


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## Thistle (May 16, 2011)

Not knowing all what went down,still seems odd that he waited 6 months to say anything.


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## thewoodlands (May 16, 2011)

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/ithaca/city/webpageguidetosmallclaims.html







GIBIR


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## snowleopard (May 16, 2011)

Awkward.  

I'd be really careful about putting the wife in the middle of this.  She has to live with the SOB, and that can't be much fun.  It sounds like a situation where she couldl pick up the tab if she's perceived by her DH as having turned against him.  

Given the way that scenario could play out, I'd take it to court, listen to what he has to say, present your case to the magistrate, and play it out that way.   Hopefully, he'll tip his hand enough in court that justice will prevail.   Then cut a really large pile of firewood, make a fence of it between your properties, and never have any dealings with them again.


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## Stax (May 16, 2011)

Wow...how ridiculous is this situation!  Nope, can't say I've had.  I would NOT trespass onto his property to take pictures after the fact.  Not a good idea to break a law in an attempt to use circumstantial evidence.  I would imagine court of law would only weigh expert testimony (Arborist, Botantist, etc.) regarding photos in a real case.  This is a small claim.  Depending on his presenting evidence, you could ask for a continuance based on the fact that because the trees were in your neighbors yard, and you were unable to take pictures after the fact without breaking the law.  This statement is then followed by I don't have an expert with me today because I had no preparatory evidence.    

Here is where the problem lies in his argument.  You were given PERMISSION and DISCRETION by the plaintiff's wife to cut trees down on his property that weren't live.  I'd go to court and see what happens!


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## joefrompa (May 16, 2011)

I think the fact that he accused you of tricking his wife into givin you permission says it all. You asked, were given permission, cut down the trees, and he did not raise an objection for half a year or note any trickery or anything else.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 16, 2011)

Personally I would not worry about a thing. I think with you having some business that the judge would tend to listen to you, especially because he waited 6 months. In addition to that, why would the idiot send you a letter stating he was taking it to court? The sounds like a scare tactic because all he has to do it file the papers and then the court would notify you. Sounds like he is just a big blow hard and I would not worry any further. If you do still have some of the wood, you can take pictures of that. 

Another point:  He says you tricked his wife. The main point is the wife did grant you permission. I do not see how a judge could rule against you. Sleep well tonight and worry no more.


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## Highbeam (May 16, 2011)

Check google earth or other aerial photo sites to hopefully see the dead trees surrounded by other live ones. I've seen some obviously dead trees in aerial photos. You can see it in the canopy.

Worst case is 1200$. You won't lose your home over this.


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## mellow (May 16, 2011)

Do you know how he came up with the $1200.00 in damages?  Is he figuring that on getting replacement trees the same size?


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## benjamin (May 16, 2011)

Some states have statutes regarding "timber theft" because loggers go over the property line all the time. Typically the payment is two or three times the commercial value of the stolen logs. 

Just saying even if the judge believes you didn't have permission, you might only be liable for a trivial amount.


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## woodsman23 (May 16, 2011)

Just go over and kick his ass.................


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## jimbom (May 16, 2011)

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on the internet.  Dennis has it correct.  Wait for the notice from the court.

The four corners of a contract:
An offer,
An acceptance,
Legal purpose,
Consideration(pay or compensation).

You offered to take down the dead trees.  The neighbor accepted your offer.  The agreement does not break any laws, therefore it is a legal purpose.

Now.  The consideration.  You removed dead and dangerous trees and were paid for your time, materials, and equipment by the use of the wood.  The neighbor wants to change the contract after the fact.  See constructive estoppel in the construction industry.  

Create a bill for your services to cut and remove the dangerous trees.  You are in business, so you know the costs of doing business.  Include them all.  Include the time spent preparing the bill.  Send the neighbor the bill for services by mail and demand payment.  If he ever does file, chances are, the judge has paid for a tree removal or knows someone that has paid.  It is expensive.  The judge may accept your bill and deduct the value of the wood and have the neighbor pay you.

Sounds like your neighbor is borderline insane.  Consider visiting the local police to see if a do not trespass order or other order is warranted.  Prepare to defend yourself in any case.  The dnt order will not protect you physically, only legally should the unthinkable come to pass.


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## mainstation (May 17, 2011)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> Just go over and kick his ass.................




That made me laugh out loud.


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## Exmasonite (May 17, 2011)

Any pics of the pile or wood collected?  

I would say that worst case scenario, offer to replace the same amount of wood taken.... but don't offer that up front as it could be seen as an admission of guilt.  Just something to hold onto in case the judgment is going against you.  

But the 6 month lag time to complain will be the death of their case.


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## holland_patrick (May 17, 2011)

Is the wife hot?????


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## steam man (May 17, 2011)

The letter states that i â€œcut down live trees instead of dead ones.â€  

Just go over and offer to cut down the dead ones to compensate him. LOL


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## gzecc (May 18, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on the internet.  Dennis has it correct.  Wait for the notice from the court.
> 
> The four corners of a contract:
> An offer,
> ...


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## North of 60 (May 18, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Check google earth or other aerial photo sites to hopefully see the dead trees surrounded by other live ones. I've seen some obviously dead trees in aerial photos. You can see it in the canopy.
> 
> Worst case is 1200$. You won't lose your home over this.



I like your thinking on this one Highbeam.  Good angle.


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## Czech (May 18, 2011)

Between the kick his ass and the hot wife comments, I think I may have pissed myself. Either that or my coffee is only warm.


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## dave11 (May 21, 2011)

There is another side to this though. Your neighbor might argue that the wife did not have authority to give away those trees, and the judge might agree with that. She might in fact not be listed on the deed for the property, but even if she is, she might not be automatically able to consent to something like this. Depends on how she seems to the judge. 

One caveat to any contract, no matter how small, is verifying that the person you're dealing with has authority to enter the contract. In other words, just because you go on someone's property, and a person living there says "Sure, cut down that tree," doesn't mean they have the authority to say so. And your doing so might be the same as having gotten no permission at all. 

I can almost guarantee you that the judge is going to ask: Why didn't you ask the husband for permission?  A lot will depend on that answer.


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## smokinj (May 21, 2011)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> Just go over and kick his ass.................



+1


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## Thistle (May 21, 2011)

HAHAHA


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## jimbom (May 22, 2011)

dave11 said:
			
		

> There is another side to this though. Your neighbor might argue that the wife did not have authority to give away those trees, and the judge might agree with that. She might in fact not be listed on the deed for the property, but even if she is, she might not be automatically able to consent to something like this. Depends on how she seems to the judge.   *ie Hot or not.*
> 
> One caveat to any contract, no matter how small, is verifying that the person you're dealing with has authority to enter the contract. In other words, just because you go on someone's property, and a person living there says "Sure, cut down that tree," doesn't mean they have the authority to say so. And your doing so might be the same as having gotten no permission at all.
> 
> I can almost guarantee you that the judge is going to ask: Why didn't you ask the husband for permission? *I would have had to kick his ass, your honor.* A lot will depend on that answer.


Settle out of court and thank your lucky stars we are not your lawyers.


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## smokinj (May 22, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> dave11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good advice, but still like the kick butt better! lol


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## fossil (May 22, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> ... thank your lucky stars we are not your lawyers.



Best answer so far.  Don't think it can be beat.  Rick


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## fire_N_ice (May 23, 2011)

was a police report ever filed for the "theft"? 

a difficult neighbor, no matter how nice you are, will be just that. When we first moved in, our neighbor next door was sort of sedey and put off. his kids would come over only if they had something to sell and would  be very nice. next day said hello to them and the kids looked at me like i had 10 heads. Another day, i noticed the husband out side doing some yardwork. he looked me up and down and looked the other way. and so on. I notice their siding is coming off and wood frame around their window is rotting.  Been like this for a few years. don't say a word to him. The neighbor behind me is wonderful. we keep to ourselfs and every now and then we will have hour long conversations updating our families and events. they have a firepit and I do supply wood for them when they run out or forget to split theirs. 
  Anyway I would of either not said a word or just asked the head of the house. 
Good luck with this situation


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## richg (May 26, 2011)

dave11 said:
			
		

> There is another side to this though. Your neighbor might argue that the wife did not have authority to give away those trees, and the judge might agree with that. She might in fact not be listed on the deed for the property, but even if she is, she might not be automatically able to consent to something like this. Depends on how she seems to the judge.
> 
> One caveat to any contract, no matter how small, is verifying that the person you're dealing with has authority to enter the contract. In other words, just because you go on someone's property, and a person living there says "Sure, cut down that tree," doesn't mean they have the authority to say so. And your doing so might be the same as having gotten no permission at all.
> 
> I can almost guarantee you that the judge is going to ask: Why didn't you ask the husband for permission?  A lot will depend on that answer.



I disagree. It would be one thing if you asked an adolescent minor for permission or tennants if it was a rental house, but the wife is a competent adult. Most states require that the wife be on the deed to protect them in the event of divorce. This guy has no case. If you need a defense theory about having cut down dead trees, a moisture meter willl solve the problem. the mositure content of standing dead would should be far less than that from a freshly-cut live tree. 

Eitehr way, the guy is a jerk. This could be a situation for Liquid @ss.


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## oilstinks (May 28, 2011)

I thought the wife was the boss anyway? Maybe i need to reevaluate my marital relationship.  Around here it is 800 to 1200 bucks for a tree removal. Id draw up a bill just in case but i dont think it will ever go to court especially if the wife admits she gave permission.


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## Singed Eyebrows (May 29, 2011)

I would contact my attorneys Smith & Wesson, seriously, just face the windbag in court, Randy


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## Singed Eyebrows (May 29, 2011)

The wife gave permission & if she was there at the time you cut the trees she also didn't stop you. I'd like to be there when he tells the judge his wife didn't have the authority to let you cut the trees, especially if the judge is a women. I can always use a good laugh. The courts usually deal with "whats reasonable". You come across as very reasonable & shouldn't have any troubles representing yourself, Randy


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## offroadaudio (Jun 8, 2011)

If a neighbor asked my wife something like that when I was not around, I would be pissed.
You want to cut down your neighbors trees? - manly business - talk to the man OR both of them together - it's called respect.
That being said - the court thing is still BS - don't worry about it.


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