# Greenfire Furnaces....Good Purchase?



## PEI1 (Jul 21, 2008)

I am looking to purchase a wood boiler for the coming season and have been actively checking into the Greenfire furnaces, I have read most of the entries by one of the members (Sparke) with his and the break down.....I really like the way the unit sets up but I am from Canada and have to deal with a broker for the units in Ontario, instead of SJV Trailers in Fort Kent. The Canadian broker is asking around $8000 plus taxes for the 90,000 Btu model. For that kind of cash, does this seem like a good buy, seems to me that Sparke did not pay that kind of money for his.......just wondering if anyone has bought from SJV and in what ballpark they are charging for the boilers?

PEI1


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## MikeF (Jul 21, 2008)

Hi,

I have been talking to Mark at Greenfire lately and he quoted a little over $5800 for a 130 BTU. He's made quite a few improvements to the unit since Sparke bought his. I live in NB and plan to drive up there and get one myslef. All you have to do then is pay the tax at the border. It will amount to 13%. That will save you from the $8000 quote out of Ontario.


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## PEI1 (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for the Reply MikeF, I wonder how these people at GreenHorizons are selling it at the higher cost.......according to them, they are the ONLY distributor the the Greenfire line.......did Mark at Greenfire ever try to send you to these people or mention that you should purchase from them???.......I am a little peeved especially since I was quoted the $8000 on the model smaller that yours.....you mentioned that you were going to pick it up, is shipping a possibility??

PEI1


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## Willman (Jul 22, 2008)

> is shipping a possibility??


If your from PEI you should contact some local truckers who might be able to pick up a boiler for you on their return trip.All kinds of trucking going  off the island, not sure they all come back with full loads. pre pay for boiler, great exchange rate ! Pay trucker and tax and your all set. Unload at their terminal.


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## MikeF (Jul 22, 2008)

In terms of the cost of the Greenfire, I'm just passing along what I have been told. If Green Horizons is a middle man, my guess is that they are simply adding to the cost to get their cut. The cost I was quoted was based on me going to the fabrication site and picking it up. In terms of shipping, I know that Sparke had his shipped and I'm sure that could be arranged. Shipping across the border is sometimes an issue so if you can find a local trucker who regularly makes runs back and forth across the line, then perhaps you can work something out. Not sure what the odds are of having a local trucker hauling out of the Fort Kent area is. If you can do it, I would consider getting as friend who has a set up that can haul the weight and taking a day trip, albeit a long one from PEI to northern Maine, and driving up and back yourself. It's simply a matter of presenting your paperwork at Canada Customs, paying your HST, and getting on home. Also make sure you have two IDs for the US Customs people. (Photo ID for one of them and birth certificate work well.)

Mark tells me Saturday is the best day to come up. Call ahead. All the best.


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## Grapenut (Jul 23, 2008)

I recieved a quote of $5400 (US) from Mark for a 130 back in June that was good for 30 days.  I did not bite b/c I bought a used Seton instead.   While you are looking into shipping, I've used UShip.com with good luck.


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## PEI1 (Jul 23, 2008)

All of these quotes are more in the range that I was planning on, I am not sure why the broker in Ont is so off base but I know that I will be giving Mark from SJV Trailers a call because I think that the $5400 is in my ballpark.....now all I need is too understand setup and installation and I will be all set.....seems daunting to a newbie but i am up to the challenge!!....

PEI1


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## sparky1961 (Jul 24, 2008)

sjv trailers no longer sells greenfire wood boilers direct . All wood boilers are marketed through Green horizon boilers in Prescott .Ont Canada


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## PEI1 (Jul 24, 2008)

hey Sparky1961,

When did they stop selling them at sjv........as Grapenut had a quote as late as June.........it seems disappointing, because if i have to go through green horizons it is going to cost me much more than what was originally quoted to some of the members above.......very unfortunate......is this a for sure???

PEI1


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## MikeF (Jul 24, 2008)

Sent Mark at SJV Trailer an e-mail today and he confirmed that the Greenfire is now being sold through Green Horizons. I guess I should have bought mine a few months ago but the business I'm in does not slow down until September. That is when I was going to make my purchase and install the Greenfire. I guess I missed the boat and I will not spend the money they are now asking for one just to keep the middle man happy. If I have to buy through Green Horizons, there will be one sale they won't be making. too bad. I really liked what Greenfire was doing with the changes they had recently made.


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## PEI1 (Jul 24, 2008)

That is really too bad, I am like you MikeF....I really like the Greenfire, and especially at the attractive price......at GreenHorizons pricing it just puts it almost out of the picture.........THAT SUCKS!!

PEI1


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## Titus (Jul 24, 2008)

I think that they may be protecting a new dealership arrangement in Canada. i.e. they will not knowingly sell a boiler direct into Canada.

However, I do believe they are selling direct to locals. Is there a way for you to go to there and buy it? You do not have to tell them you are taking it back to PEI. Or do you know anyone in the area, perhaps Edmundston, who could do it for you? If so, I'd be happy to make a call and verify that someone can walk in and buy one. (I'm from there and know them.)


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## Mainewood (Jul 24, 2008)

It is obvious that SJV Trailers was selling at factory pricing direct to the customer.  You can buy a genuine Seton for $7000.00


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## PEI1 (Jul 25, 2008)

Hey Titus,

I am certainly game for just about anything if it saves me $3000, I actually have in-laws that are in St Stephen NB and i also have good friends in Brockton, Ma, also some relatives in Norfolk, Ma.....getting there to get it would not be the issue........getting it in the $5400 range would be the trick......if you could make the call that would be spectacular......from the sounds of it, there are others that like the boiler, just not at Green Horizons pricing.......I would certainly be interested if you could get some more info Titus.......Big Ole Atlantic THANKS!!

PEI1


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## PEI1 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey,

Has there been anyone else, looking into these boilers over the last little while??, curious what info everyone is getting and what kind of pricing.....??

PEI1


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## Titus (Jul 30, 2008)

PEI1... sent you a PM.

I spoke with Mark (owner) today. GreenHorizons has a dealer relationship with SJV Trailers, and not just for Canada. Mark only kept Maine for himself. So, price mentioned here was a factory direct buy and is not realistic for most people. They are building steadily, selling about 10 units per week. Not bad, since they are relatively unknown. Mark is more into building than selling, if you know what I mean. Personally, I would have dedicated myself more towards selling and held off on making an exclusive dealer relationship. Imagine how many you could sell, just advertising here.


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## Ginny (Jul 30, 2008)

From my research it seems to me that Mark at SJV Trailers no longer manufactures Greenfire. He is currently making boilers for Green Horizon, a Canadian company. I hear good things about the product and the new business relationship. All this conversation is going on because Mark sold off the end of line Greenfire boilers cheaply to clear the decks for the new boilers. I spoke with Tony at Green Horizon and he told me that those lower prices were for very basic units. The new units are clad largely in stainless steel, are all electric and fully plumbed and essentially ready to plug in. The prices are very competitive for what is on offer. I took a peek at their new web site and found it easy to understand, even for an old girl like me!


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## Titus (Jul 30, 2008)

The Green Horizon boilers and Greenfire boilers are one and the same. SJV Trailers entered into the relationship with Green Horizons in order to get out of the sales and marketing and just focus on making the things. Check out the websites... same material.

So, buying direct from SJV gets you the same item, for less. The difference is the middleman. However, the agreement states that direct sales are only for here in Maine. Mark reserved the backyard territory for himself.

Not more complicated than that.


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## PEI1 (Aug 6, 2008)

Hey Titus....thanks for all the leg work and info that you were able to round up........it is because of members like you that we newbies are able to gain the info needed to make purchase decisions a little easier.......THANKS A BUNCH!!

PEI1


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## newbie976 (Aug 20, 2008)

Hello PEI1, I was looking at the Green Horizon boilers too and the quote for mine (130) was $9100. I would like to get one of these units but just like you say I refuse to pay that much money for it.  How have you made out with your contacts in ME? Did you get a better quote? Any info that you could share with me, my family and I would really appreciate...


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## webbie (Aug 20, 2008)

Hmmm, are folks really considering the purchase of a 9K + boiler from a web site which has been active only a few months? Why?
And doesn't the web site and boiler look a lot like the Adobe? 

How does a trailer company qualify to make boilers? Please explain how long they have worked with pressure vessels and other such heating equipment.

Maybe folks should read these experiences:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/15542/


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## Willman (Aug 20, 2008)

> How does a trailer company qualify to make boilers?



I have spoken to Mark the owner of the "trailer shop" on a couple of occasions concerning his boiler fabrication. He builds the Seton, which has been around awhile. I would imagine that a welder who can weld up a trailer for road use can prolly have a good outcome with a boiler. The Seton is known mostly for the large amount of refractory anyway. Pressure vessel is sched 40 pipe manifolded into 1/4'' sq tubing. Definitely not typical Euro technology, but seems to get the job done.
Search some threads by Sparke as he bought a knocked down version of the Greenfire for assembly in his basement last year.

Will


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## webbie (Aug 20, 2008)

So it is just coincidence that the Adobe Boiler went away, and this appeared? And seems to use some of the same graphics?

I get worried about all those Maine customers....seems like they are ready to throw money at any potential solutions, even without a long history of performance.


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## Mainewood (Aug 20, 2008)

Craig, There are more people copying Fred Seton's design than just adobe.  A little research will reveal that there are several copies being manufactured and marketed.  You are right about exercising caution in purchasing a wood boiler.


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## webbie (Aug 20, 2008)

I hear ya...but I'm on my way down to the 7-11 to buy their newest boiler model......the clerk swore to me he learned welding in his high school elective. 
 %-P


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## newbie976 (Aug 20, 2008)

Is there anybody on this form who owns a Greenfire and is happy with it? I've read some post from Sparke and he seemd very happy ith his purchase... Someone please help!... I need a boiler that is CSA and or Epa stamped to heat my house. I have looked on the net for awhile now and really liked the EKO 60 but it wasn't certified. I don't really want to spend anymore than $7000 on the boiler it self. I live only an hour and a half from Calis maine so I could go pick one up. I need help I think I am making this decsion too hard.

B.S


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Aug 20, 2008)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> So it is just coincidence that the Adobe Boiler went away, and this appeared? And seems to use some of the same graphics?



No, it's not just a coincidence.  The manufacturer was making the Adobe boilers as a subcontractor to the Adobe company.  We was screwed over by them when they pocketed the money and ran, just like many others were.  He continued making the boilers for sale, and I think added a few things.

For what it's worth, I've looked over a few of them, and it does seem to be a well-made product.  I have no experience with actually installing them, or with any customers who have used them, but the build quality looks nice and there are no blatant flaws in the design.

Joe


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Aug 20, 2008)

newbie976 said:
			
		

> I need a boiler that is CSA and or Epa stamped to heat my house.



"Cheap" and "stamped" don't tend to go together.  I don't believe that the Greenfire is stamped, but I could be mistaken.

I'd suggest Econoburn or Tarm, personally.  Either one should be readily available to you.

Joe


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## Mainewood (Aug 20, 2008)

BrownianHeatingTech said:
			
		

> Webmaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Joe, are You saying the former manufactuer for Adobe is building Green Horizon boilers?


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## webbie (Aug 20, 2008)

It is my suggestion that people buy boilers from a company that employs engineers who have extensive experience in the design of hydronic systems and pressure vessels. To not do so is to throw away about 150 years of progress, this being the reason for the original Hartford Steam Boiler Insurance Company.

I certainly wish success upon any venture, but at the same time understand that there is a BIG difference between a firebox with some pipes in it and a properly engineered and constructed boiler.

A home heating boiler can be a 25+ year plus (or longer) investment. Will parts and service and warranty support be available, etc. etc. etc.?

Honestly, I thought the day of stoves being made in the local welding shop was largely over. 
http://www.flogris.org/exhibitions/HSB_online/abouthsb.html
-------------
"The Hartford Steam Boiler Inspection and Insurance Company is a global provider of specialty insurance products, inspection services and engineering consulting. Its roots as a Connecticut corporation date to the 1850s when a group of Hartford engineers expressed concern at the disastrous consequences of steam boiler explosions, a frequent occurrence of that day. In the wake of the 1865 explosion of the Mississippi River steamer Sultana, the worst boiler explosion in American history with a loss of 1,238 lives, they formed a company that would both inspect and insure steam boilers. Founded in 1866, Hartford Steam Boiler is one of the pioneering American businesses devoted to industrial safety."
------------

There are various approvals and standards which can apply to wood fired boilers....make certain that any boiler you consider has at least some of them.


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## BrownianHeatingTech (Aug 20, 2008)

Mainewood said:
			
		

> Joe, are You saying the former manufactuer for Adobe is building Green Horizon boilers?



Greenfire boilers.

I'm not personally familiar with "Green Horizon," but there are so many manufacturers coming out of the woodwork these days...

Joe


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## PEI1 (Aug 21, 2008)

hey Joe,

Green Horizon is the marketing firm that has the exclusive rights to sell and market the old Greenfire Wood Furnaces under the new Green Horizon Boiler name.........there is no more Greenfire only Green Horizons.

and yes Mainwood, from what I understand SJV Trailers owner "Mark" was a subcontractor building the Adobe system, but was screwed over like the rest of the customers..........it is my understanding that he has taken the Seton design and made some "Improvements" and is now manufacturing them for Green Horizons.........I believe the CEO for green horizons has even made some investment to make them CSA approved for Canadian distribution.....but don't quote me on that.

PEI1


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## NNYorker (Aug 21, 2008)

I can see where all these people inquiring about Greenfire/Greenhorizon are coming from because I was one of them a year and a half ago. I was looking for a reasonable alternative to heat my home. My neighbor had/has an Aqua-Therm that burns plenty of wood; I wasn't interested in that. 
                         I wanted something that burned less wood and was easy on my wallet. I did my research and I purchased an Adobe Boiler from Phillip Dougherty. From that day on to the present time I was screwed. By who? Of course, Phillip Dougherty. Way back to my first post on this site, I had a couple of questions for Phil. He had no answers or passed the buck to Mark @ SJV Trailers. I finally pieced together that this "knowledgeable seller/installer" Phil was useless. 
                           Mark was/is the only person who has helped Adobe Boiler owners in the past and present. Mark is not to blame for the Adobe Boiler disaster. Phillip Dougherty was forewarned of potential problems/issues with his specific instructions on how the boiler would be built. Did he heed such warnings? Of course not! Phillip Dougherty is an insurance salesman, remember? He played the odds like a bean counter would--with so few a warranty claims how could anything go wrong. Phil cheaped the boiler out to make maximum profit for himself. Which brings me full circle to--If he would have gone the extra couple hundred dollars and skinned the unit in stainless I would have probably never visited/stumbled upon this site. IF he would have contacted me and put forth the least little bit of effort to resolve my rotting skin problem,if,if,if......
                           This boiler is obviously not an EKO or Tarm. It has a definite learning curve like all boilers. My main beef with this thing is the damn cheapness that Phillip Dougherty placed on enclosing this thing in. So I spend 5-700 bucks rebuilding it thanks to the snake oil salesman Phil. His defrauding people goes way beyond my $4,700 purchase. I have personally spoken to someone still in the home wood heating business who was taken/conned /defrauded of a sum very close to SIX FIGURES. I'm sure everyone can figure out who Phil has ripped off close to home by previous posts.
                            I have experimented with my boiler this summer and heated my pool with it. I'm sure that the unit Mark builds is of a MUCH higher quality than what I currently own. These boilers are similar but Mark has made some necessary changes for the better as I have found through my trial and error.  Mark has gone above and beyond for me and other Adobe owners. I have nothing but positive things to say about Mark and the way he treats people. 
                             I know this thread started out as a good buy/quality thing but I just had to let eveyone know the type of person I have dealt with------the exact opposite of Phillip Dougherty. Try getting in touch with Phil at www.enterpriseboiler.com      I'm sure you'll be impressed.


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## akal60 (Aug 23, 2008)

Greenfire is no longer on the web. the url has gone dark. I hope this is just a server problem and not bad news for us greenfire owners.


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## Titus (Aug 23, 2008)

Site is dark because of deal with Green Horizons. SJV Trailers has them doing all sales/marketing. Marks a builder, not a salesman. Too many inquiries coming in to SJV that he had to refer to GH.

(IMHO this was a mistake. I think they'd better off owning the whole process. Just advertising and posting here could help develop enough business to keep them hopping. Middleman & middleman markup are likely to depress sales.)

I'm from Fort Kent originally, so I know Mark and the outfit. I'll make a call this weekend and make sure everything's still OK.

http://www.greenhorizonboilers.com/

(I have no financial entanglements with either outfit.)


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## applewood (Aug 23, 2008)

Just to add to things for the Canadian guys... I was considering bringing my unit across into Ontario from NY but was told there was also a 7% duty, which erased most of the price difference and so I bought mine local to have the local dealer support.


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## webbie (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm still leery about anyone buying stuff like this - but a man and his money are (often) easily parted......

Sites that come and go, companies that are in business a short time, bad past experiences.......a home heating system is a 20+ year investment. 

I guess I have said my piece.......but I wish people would just send me all their spare money.....I will use it better than some of these creeps (Adobe, etc.)


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## akal60 (Aug 23, 2008)

sounds like some people are negative on Greenfire, all the posts that I have read here led me to believe that they were a good design that was very economical on wood. Seton has a good reputation in Alaska there are many up in Fairbanks that use his stoves and boilers.I don't think Mark is a poor dealer or bad builder. he always was ready to help any way he could. calling people foolish is not too nice either.I came here looking for first hand knowledge on boilers, most have been very helpful, but name calling isn't good for any forum.


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## PEI1 (Aug 24, 2008)

It is nice to see so many are/were interested in the Greenfire design as I am.....i think at the end of the day that, it is not a question on how the design is manufactured or even a question on how good the service is going to be as I think Mark at SJV trailers is making a product that can compete and I believe he is a man of honor....but I do think that the problem facing many is trying to get into some form of gasification boiler that will not financially ruin them.........do I think that the Greenfire is the best gasifier out there.......debatable......are there other products that have been around forever.......definitely.......but for me it is trying to balance the ability to get a gasifier for a cost that I will be able to sleep with.........the $8000+ that GreenHorizon Boilers is asking for the entry level stove, to me, is not reasonable, especially when I know that Mark is selling them for much less.......he has to be making money as i doubt that he is giving them away, so my issue is with GreenHorizons for essentially gouging the customers.......not fair!!......but I guess that is the way the old business wheel works.....as I said in a previous post on this thread......THAT SUCKS!!

PEI1


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## 2.beans (Aug 24, 2008)

being a seton owner and looking for a boiler for a friend of mine i called fred seton and asked him about the greenfire when they were still around. the greenfire price was so cheap i didnt think it would be worth it to buy freds build it yourself plans. so going on freds word assuming hes an honest man he told me that the greenfires are cheaper because they use cheaper refractory cement and also all the interior insulations are of lesser quality. also they are a direct copy of a seton and didnt pay any royalties to fred seton. in my eyes it looks like stealing. i had also talked to the trailer building guy (adobe building guy) and he didnt seem to know an awful lot about operating the boiler. he told me the biggest complaint out of the hundreds he sold was they make to much heat so you need really green wood. he didnt know how to make them run cooler. me owning a seton did, i figured id let him figure it out himself (draft). so with that said i was surprised to see that he was making different size units with btu ratings that fred seton doesnt offer. we bought freds plans.


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