# Central Boiler E-Classic 3200



## gramseywtu (Nov 14, 2011)

We are looking at an E-3200 from Central Boiler to replace an oil fired furnace is a commercial lodge application.  Does anyone have any experience with this specific unit -- pro's/con's -- alternate recommendations?

Thanks.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 14, 2011)

Do a search here on Hearth.com. I know a few member put them in. I know they had some problems, like all newly brought to market stuff. 

My recollections are:

1)putting a paperclip somewhere to keep the unit from going out during the shoulder seasons

2)Taking firebrick out as instructed by dealer

3)Putting firebrick back in as instructed by dealer.

What is your load? What part of ADK?


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## gramseywtu (Nov 14, 2011)

We're in Old Forge NY and the current oil fired unit is 250,000 BTU's and we use about 3800 gallons of oil a year.


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## Chris Hoskin (Nov 14, 2011)

I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 14, 2011)

What type of wood and how much do you anticipate burning this year?


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## Gasifier (Nov 14, 2011)

I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns. 

I would also recommend one of the larger Wood Guns. Check them out and give them some consideration. 

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/WoodGasification.aspx

I would also recommend storage, but that will get more expensive for you. But also make operating the entire heating system really nice. Either with or without storage, seriously consider a Wood Gun. Built like a friggen tank. And the Stainless Steel option as well. Long life span for your business.

Search and read some threads on here about storage and gassification boilers. Keep us posted. And ask lots of questions. Lots of people on here with lots of knowledge. Later.

Oh, welcome. If you stay here for a while you will find this site like having an excellent support system for your heating system. Whatever way you go. Great bunch of guys and girls on this site. Good luck!


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## gramseywtu (Nov 14, 2011)

Prevalent in the area is birch, beech and maple.  We would burn cord wood, cut, split and seasoned for 4 or 5 months.  The Central Boiler dealer is in the process of estimating how much wood we will burn with his unit based on our history with oil.  This is new for us so we don't really have any idea.  We have read this forum and others and have a rough idea, but nothing concrete.  He has our oil history usage by month and says he can give us an wood estimate by month.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 14, 2011)

So, you will keep the Lodge heated 24/7 from say Columbus day to memorial day? How many showers a day?

If you insist on using 5 month seasoned wood, I believe you will have trouble with any of the units that have forced draft secondary combustion. They are designed for lower MC wood. I know OF fairly well, so I am familiar with the wood species in the area. Do you realize you are going to go through around 20 cord of wood a year?


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## Gasifier (Nov 14, 2011)

Prevalent in the area is birch, beech and maple.  We would burn cord wood, cut, split and seasoned for 4 or 5 months.  The Central Boiler dealer is in the process of estimating how much wood we will burn with his unit based on our history with oil.  This is new for us so we donâ€™t really have any idea.  We have read this forum and others and have a rough idea, but nothing concrete.  He has our oil history usage by month and says he can give us an wood estimate by month. 

The only thing you will want to adjust is the amount of time you season your wood. You will want to get to the point that your wood is seasoned for one full year, or more. But that can be done. 

3800 gallons of oil a year x 3.75/gallon = $14,250.00   >    20 cord of wood a year x $225/cord (already c/s) =  $4500.00

$14,250.00 - $4500.00 = $9750.00

Not a bad savings. And that is with oil staying where it is. Anytime, the oil could go through the roof.

Just one of the really nice things about the Wood Guns is that all the components on them can be purchased at a heat/supply company or building supply store. Aquastats and circulation pumps. That simple.


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## skfire (Nov 14, 2011)

If OWB is the only option I would strongly recommend taking a look at the Portage and Main Optimizer

SK


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 14, 2011)

I assume since you're running a succesful Lodge in the ADK, you have a good bit of sense. Enough sense to be wary of anyone pushing one unit. :smirk: 

Do some reading/research B4 you buy.


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## Gasifier (Nov 14, 2011)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> I assume since you're running a succesful Lodge in the ADK, you have a good bit of sense. Enough sense to be wary of anyone pushing one unit. :smirk:
> 
> Do some reading/research B4 you buy.



Oh I agree completely. What he said. Listen to ISeeDeadBTUs. I don't think you have to be wary of "me" per say. Someone that is seeing dead BTUs? Ehhh, maybe.  :lol:


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## willworkforwood (Nov 14, 2011)

WTU said:
			
		

> We are looking at an E-3200 from Central Boiler to replace an oil fired furnace is a commercial lodge application. Does anyone have any experience with this specific unit -- pro's/con's -- alternate recommendations?
> 
> Thanks.


Welcome to the forum. The words COMMERCIAL and REPLACE really caught my eye. I think (truly hope) you mean primary-supplement instead of replace, and will assume you did. "Commercial" ties directly into that, because you WILL need to use some oil. Wood burning is a manual process, and every once in a while the "man"ual will mess up - never our fault, always circumstances beyond our control. Although these circumstances don't happen to me much anymore, when it does happen, I always have to answer to a higher power (the boss). In your case, there will be 10 (?) angry ladies in the office - a prospect that none of us would wish upon their worst enemy. So, in addition to all of the good advice you've already received, you need to have a non-manual source of heat piped, and controlled to kick in instantly, whenever the wood heat supply can't meet demand (regardless of your WB choice). Now, the fossil backup isn't a big deal - most everyone using a WB has some flavor of it. But in your case, things like waiting for a fossil boiler to come back up to temp doesn't sound like a happy thing - you may need to pipe in series to avoid even a small time delay. Might be a good idea to get a top-shelf HVAC person to design the full system for you. Best of luck with it!


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## Pat53 (Nov 14, 2011)

WTU said:
			
		

> We're in Old Forge NY and the current oil fired unit is 250,000 BTU's and we use about 3800 gallons of oil a year.




Yikes,...... 3,800 gallons of oil/year !!? That would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $13K-$15K annually.


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## flyingcow (Nov 14, 2011)

When i priced an E-Classic(I think 2400) i was told to figure for every 100 gals of oil is equal 1 cord of well seasoned wood. My neighbor has an E-Classic. He's a good friend, talk a lot. He needs his wood seasoned one year. Tried 6 months and the E-Classic didn't like it. basically no matter what you do, you really should seaon wood 1 yr.


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## henfruit (Nov 15, 2011)

I would look at the vigas line the model 100 is rated at 341,000 btu out put.


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

henfruit Posted: 14 November 2011 07:09 PM   [ Report ]   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
I would look at the vigas line the model 100 is rated at 341,000 btu out put.  

Ohhhh. I have been waiting for this. Give it to him DeadBTUs! He only recommended one boiler too!

Tarm Sales Guy Posted: 14 November 2011 11:39
I would recommend you also consider a Garn and/or one of the larger Wood Guns. 

And while you are at it, give it to that darn old Tarm Sales guy as well for that recommendation of a large Wood Gun.

Thank you in advance for your fairness to all. I appreciate it.   :smirk:

 :lol:


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## heaterman (Nov 15, 2011)

Outdoor : Portage and Main

Indoor: Garn or a Wood Gun/Econoburn/Eko with storage

Indoor/outdoor available both ways.  Royall (a super simple, non gasifying, ASME boiler)

Don't be misled about the storage thing. You need it with the load you have.  If you are going to do the correct thing and go with storage just get a Garn and be done with it.

DO NOT get involved with a CB E-Classic series. Sorry if that offends anyone but when I hear of a _CB dealer_ stating that CB has left him hanging high and dry on thousands in warranty claims it does not bode well for the product.  

JMHO


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

WTU,

I found these threads to be a very interesting read. Each one of these threads is about a side by side comparison with a large Garn and a large Wood Gun at a large facility for a couple of wood burning boilers to handle. Take a read and see what you think. I thought it was interesting.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71547/ Part 1
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71548/ Part 2
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71549/ Part 3
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71879/ Part 4, 5a, 5b
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/78065/ Part 6

And this one is about the same Wood Gun getting a large storage tank to work with it. Pretty cool.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/77602/

Have a good one man.


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## heaterman (Nov 15, 2011)

Gasifier said:
			
		

> WTU,
> 
> I found these threads to be a very interesting read. Each one of these threads is about a side by side comparison with a large Garn and a large Wood Gun at a large facility for a couple of wood burning boilers to handle. Take a read and see what you think. I thought it was interesting.
> 
> ...



That was interesting info but the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Probably due to how it was loaded.


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

That was interesting info but the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Probably due to how it was loaded. 

Heaterman.

I find what you said interesting. (And I am not being sarcastic this time.) You say the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Why do you think that? But you did not say anything about the output quoted for the Wood Gun. I am just curious. I don't know anything about the Garns, but I do believe they are a quality boiler, but that is just from what I have read. I also believe the Wood Gun is a quality boiler as well. Do you own a Garn? And if yes, how do you like it? A serious inquiry. Thanks.


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

I also thought this was interesting from Jim in another thread as well. I hope you don't mind Jim.

The fun never ceases. My experience is limited to a Tarm Solo 40 (my own), now in its 5th heating season; a Wood Gun E500 and a Garn WHW3200, both now in their 3rd heating season. The WG and Garn are installed at Deep Portage. Given what Iâ€™ve done, I can support simplicity and I also can support some key add-ons, or upgrades if available from the mfr. 

As to the Tarm, the controller shuts the draft off when the fire is out, adjusted by its own thermostat, and it shuts the Tarm down completely on overheat. Simple and effective. I also have added 1000 gal pressurized storage. My only changes are wiring the controller to also shut off the circulator when the fire is out, and a stack overheat controller that shuts the draft fan off it the stack temp gets too high. Plus I monitor key system points and data logging as needed, both of which have greatly helped me to understand how the Tarm functions. Since I started weighed wood burns last year and learned that I now can always load the Tarm so that it burns full out and never idles, I am continuing weighed wood burns. Storage makes this possible, along with a couple of sensors and digital panel meters to monitor the storage tank. I have not had any repairs, wear-outs, replacements of any kind with the Tarm.

As to the WG, I know that the mfr says storage is not needed and letting the WG cycle is fine, but I also know that since DP added 4000 gallons of pressurized storage, WG operation has become a breeze and nothing could be simpler. The WG now always takes a full load of wood (100 lbs+) and then walk away. It no longer ever cycles. In this respect it operates much like the Garn, the primary differences being that the WG is kicking out 160F+ water nearly from the startâ€”no need to first heat the tank before hot water is delivered to the systemâ€”and that the WG is designed to continuously put out high temperature water, 180F+ or so. The only add-on required for the WG was a motorized boiler return water protection valve, as I think all wood boilers require. Due to installer errors or ignorance, this was not installed or controlled correctly, but that now has been solved through re-plumbing, adding a 2nd sensor and reprogramming the Tekmar controller. What would be very beneficial for the WG is a draft fan and circulator shut down when the wood load has burned out. Iâ€™m waiting for the go-ahead from DP to add this, which must be done by or approved by an electrician. There have been no operational or mechanical problems with the WG, other than the mechanical timer failing, which DP did not replace.

As to the Garn, it functions with simplicity: throw in a full load of wood (100+ lbs) and walk away. What also would be very beneficial for the Garn is a draft fan and circulator shut off when the wood load has burned out. DP is following up with the mfr on this. Keeping the draft fan operating (now a mechanical timer) when the wood load has burned out continuously moves lots of air through the Garn tank, and I canâ€™t help but believe that this throws lots of stored btuâ€™s up the stack. Of course, the Garn does not deliver hot water immediately because it needs to heat 3200 gallons of water first. Garn also has advised that efficiency declines in applications where water temp greater than 140F is needed. There have been no operational problems with the Garn, but the draft fan motor has failed 3 times, I believe, and Garn now is providing a different motor than the one that was originally supplied. This new motor was just installed last week. Hopefully this motor will be more dependable.

I would think that lambda or other more sophisticated controllers, including variable speed draft fan, would result in all 3 of these boilers operating more efficiently. But with sufficient storage and the ability to always burn a full load of wood without idling or cycling, I tend to think that all 3 of these boilers are operating at their design best. It would be interesting to see some data on the efficiency gain provided by more sophisticated controllers vs how these 3 operate now.


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

I do not know why, but this posted twice, so I erased the text from this one. I do not know if I could have just deleted the whole thing?


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Nov 15, 2011)

Um, Gas ? ? ?

I think your average idiot can read "TarmSalesGuy"s name and recognize where his bias might be. And I've seen him be pretty even handed with other brands too.

But you seem - for someone that's only used his WG for a short time - to thing Wood Guns are the answer for everyone. Funny that another member here with a bit more WG history than you, thinks they suck. I'd bet both views are extreme.

I think if you chill out you'll realize that people who attempt to understand a new members situation/question can find themselves in a better position to *help a newbie* than someone who just recommends the one product he/she has used, as if it's the best solution for everything.

There are some very knowledgeable people here that can often assist a new member. Don't make it so they don't want to contribute here.

And of course, if you take issue with my style of conversation, take it up with me privately ;-)


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## flyingcow (Nov 15, 2011)

heaterman said:
			
		

> Outdoor : Portage and Main
> 
> Indoor: Garn or a Wood Gun/Econoburn/Eko with storage
> 
> ...



This young fella knows what he's talkin' about.  K.I.S.S.


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## flyingcow (Nov 15, 2011)

I've dealt with "Tarm Sales Guy" quite a bit. Followed his posts. He's good!


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

Um, Gas ? ? ?I think your average idiot can read "TarmSalesGuy"s name and recognize where his bias might be. And I've seen him be pretty even handed with other brands too.

This is true Deadbtus. That is why I am looking for some fairness in the boiler room. That is what I didn't understand. Why did you warn a new member to be wary of me because I recommend a Wood Gun? When the TarmSalesGuy, who you just said has been pretty even handed with other brands too, recommended a large Wood Gun himself. First. Then I seconded his recommedation. ?

But you seem - for someone that's only used his WG for a short time - to thing Wood Guns are the answer for everyone. Funny that another member here with a bit more WG history than you, thinks they suck. I'd bet both views are extreme.

I do not think that Wood Gunss are the answer for everyone. Although I think I have the right to an opinion. Do I not? And my opinion is that an appropriate sized Wood Gun with storage would be a good choice for his situation.

Now, can you honestly say that a Wood Gun with storage would not work in his situation. You can't. And you know it. I also think what has happened in the boiler room here is that some people in the boiler room have allowed themselves to be influenced by one persons experience. What do you know about a Wood Gun? Really DeadBtus. Why would you have any opinion on them? Do you have experience with them? Or are you going by what you have read here? What about in another thread over in the Wood Shed forum where a guy just said that a good friend of his has been operating an Eshland Wood Gun for 25 years and swears by it. 

I think if you chill out you'll realize that people who attempt to understand a new members situation/question can find themselves in a better position to help a newbie than someone who just recommends the one product he/she has used, as if it's the best solution for everything.

Think about what you just said here. First, I was not unchilled until I read this response from you. What is it that, according to you, I did not attempt to understand about the new members situation/question? And how about a guy that may understand his situation and finds himself in a better position to help a newbie. Like the The Tarmsalesguy, who recommeded a large Wood Gun. Why are did you direct your comment of being wary to the newbie about me? And not the Tarmsalesguy?

There are some very knowledgeable people here that can often assist a new member. Don't make it so they don't want to contribute here.

I know there are some very knowledgeable people here. I have read quite a bit on this site. And I respect them all. Including you! Me adding my opinion does not make it so they do not want to contribute. A conversation like this, started by you, telling a newbie to be wary of me and not another member who knows more than I do and recommeded the same thing I did, is what can lead to someone not wanting to contribute here.

And of course, if you take issue with my style of conversation, take it up with me privately ;-)
So, in conclusion. If you want to take an unneccesary and unfair swipe at me by telling someone who is new to be wary of me and my recommendation. Don't!
Take it up with me privately! Practice what you just tried to tell me to do, and failed misserably to do yourself. Right in front of a new member. Just because you tried to do it more discreetly doesn't mean you didn't do it. Practice what you preach. Now I nead to chill.

Have a good night Iseedeadbtus. I will calm down now.


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## Frozen Canuck (Nov 15, 2011)

You have gotten some solid advice on brands from Tarm Sales Guy & Heaterman. 
I agree that you will need storage no matter what boiler you consider, your heatload & the fact that you probably like to sleep will demand storage.
Agree that no matter what you will need to somehow get further ahead on dried 20% MC cord wood. 
Two seasons ahead seems to be the reported norm here for the species you have locally. We are a little more fortunate out west as most of our local species are dried in a year rather than two.
Not sure if you intend to cut/split/stack yourself or just purchase, plenty of labor involved (annually) in a large volume of cordwood, something you will have to determine if your schedule can handle.
The only other consideration that I would mention would be a wood chip burning boiler if you want to lower the labour inputs on your end. They are pricey though.
Keep asking questions as this board has a large group of been there done that folks, as well as some pro's who will all steer you right regardless of brand. 
They will however need more info from you so they can be as accurate as possible for your situation.


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## WoodChoppa (Nov 15, 2011)

Somebody needs to calm down and find a job...a hobby...maybe a life.


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## jebatty (Nov 15, 2011)

I have posted considerable info on the Wood Gun E500 and the Garn WHs 3200, which together heat 56,000 sq feet and provide supplemental DHW heat at an educational institution in north central MN. Since 4000 gal of storage was added this summer to serve the Wood Gun, these two units together now are a very sweet combo. Also, the institution added a Froling FHG L-50 along with 1600 gallons of storage to heat and provide DHW for a 6000 sq ft interpretive center and staff housing. The Froling is an exceptional performer.


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

WoodChoppa said:
			
		

> Somebody needs to calm down and find a job...a hobby...maybe a life.



Yaaaa.  So there Deadbtus. I already have all of them.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol: (And yes, WoodChoppa, I know you were talking to me. Thanks for the advice.  :roll: ) 

Here is the bad or inexperienced advice I gave the gentleman that apparently started this thread down the wrong road. If you go back through and read the thread.......

1. I recommended a solidly built, simple Gassification boiler that is capable of producing the BTUs he needs. (A large Wood Gun. Which has the 304 S.S. option)
2. I recommended storage with it, a very important part as well.
3. I told him he would need to season his wood longer than he planned. 1 year at least, more = better. (AHS recommends 20-30% M.C. - 1 year c/s/s could get him that) 
4. Then I recommended reading material of an interesting comparison on two large boilers, both of which have been suggested by people other than me, in this thread.

There, now I feel better.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Have a good day gentlemen. And good luck on your choice of boilers WTU. I hope all works out great for you. You are on the right track. Gassification is where it is at!


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## maple1 (Nov 15, 2011)

I guess it wouldn't be a boiler room if it didn't get hot once in a while.  :cheese:


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## Gasifier (Nov 15, 2011)

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: Very good!


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## heaterman (Nov 16, 2011)

Gasifier said:
			
		

> That was interesting info but the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Probably due to how it was loaded.
> 
> Heaterman.
> 
> I find what you said interesting. (And I am not being sarcastic this time.) You say the output quoted for the Garn is seriously out of whack. Why do you think that? But you did not say anything about the output quoted for the Wood Gun. I am just curious. I don't know anything about the Garns, but I do believe they are a quality boiler, but that is just from what I have read. I also believe the Wood Gun is a quality boiler as well. Do you own a Garn? And if yes, how do you like it? A serious inquiry. Thanks.



My consistent experience with any Garn I have worked with has shown stated output capacity to be conservative rather than optimistic. What Jim was quoting for output is far below normal on a 3200. 

No I do not own a Garn. I do not own any kind of wood burner at all but I have installed dozens of them. I have a well insulated house and a very good boiler burning natural gas at a little over $1/100,000 btu.   My gas boiler uses storage if that tells you anything.


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## Gasifier (Nov 16, 2011)

My consistent experience with any Garn I have worked with has shown stated output capacity to be conservative rather than optimistic. What Jim was quoting for output is far below normal on a 3200. 
No I do not own a Garn. I do not own any kind of wood burner at all but I have installed dozens of them. I have a well insulated house and a very good boiler burning natural gas at a little over $1/100,000 btu.  My gas boiler uses storage if that tells you anything. 

 Cool. Thanks heaterman. I appreciate the info. Your system sounds nice. What type of gas boiler you runnin? Got a picture of your system for us to see? Always interested in other peoples systems.


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