# Fire behind the burn pot of a Harman Accentra FS...



## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

Hi

I have a Harman Accentra2 FS pellet stove .
Have had an ongoing issue with a fire burning behind the flame guide and on the sides and underneath the burn pot. I would see burning pellets drop from the back and fall into the metal shelf that surrounds the burn pot... then the pellets started piling up on the sides of the burn pot on the metal box/shelf I would have to knock them down into the ash pan to stop the burning...and actually at times it would move the flame guide off of track and into the burn pot...

Have already replaced
burn pot gasket,
flame guide
and esp
None of which helped...

Have had Harman tech here he said stove , burn pot .vent pipe all were clean... no holes clogged ignitor area & fines box clean... checked draft etc... replaced door gasket ( even though he said it looked good ) 
Replaced burn pot which was worn  but still a flame behind the burn pot from time to time... It is much better as it is much smaller than the raging flame that filled the entire box around the burn pot previously . And I do not see any pellets accumulating on the metal box/shelf.

Anybody with any experience of dealing with this or any suggestions from anyone would be greatly appreciated...


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## jackman (Mar 5, 2015)

Can you post a pic? I've never seen that problem with my stove.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

If the burn pot was worn/warped a bit and replacing it helped somewhat what are the chances the flame guide is also worn/warped a bit as well and you have the issue half fixed as a result?

Just tossing something out there.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

jackman said:


> Can you post a pic? I've never seen that problem with my stove.



Jack

Here are 2 pics 
	

		
			
		

		
	




	

		
			
		

		
	
 Hope this helps. 1 is of the flame outside the burn pot The other is of the pellets that were burning on the sides...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> If the burn pot was worn/warped a bit and replacing it helped somewhat what are the chances the flame guide is also worn/warped a bit as well and you have the issue half fixed as a result?
> 
> Just tossing something out there.


Hi Smokey
Thanks  for the reply  unfortunately we did replace the flame guide. I currently have 3... No improvement other than when we replaced the whole burn pot weldment ... but any and all thoughts are welcome as this is driving me crazy... ;-)


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

Looks like a air/fuel issue.from the colors I'm seeing here.  

Hopper gasket if any, slide plate, any signs of smoke in the hopper?

Gaskets if any on any covers to things like the fines box, igniter.  Warped igniter cover? Fines box cover right side up or around?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Looks like a air/fuel issue.from the colors I'm seeing here.
> 
> Hopper gasket if any, slide plate, any signs of smoke in the hopper?
> 
> Gaskets if any on any covers to things like the fines box, igniter.  Warped igniter cover? Fines box cover right side up or around?


No smoke in hopper.
Harman said all gaskets were good and the hopper gasket shows no signs of deterioration and makes a tight seal...
Just double checked fine box cover it is correct.
When I opened hopper lid red ashes/sparks fly around ( they don't when it is closed ) don't know if that tells you anything ? Also flame gets a little smaller...
NOTE : Those pics were from before we changed the burn pot  and the stove definitely was not operating normally ...don't know if that makes a difference ... here are 3 pics I just took now... do you see anything different ?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Looks like a air/fuel issue.from the colors I'm seeing here.
> 
> Hopper gasket if any, slide plate, any signs of smoke in the hopper?
> 
> Gaskets if any on any covers to things like the fines box, igniter.  Warped igniter cover? Fines box cover right side up or around?


oops forgot to mention a new ignitor cover came with the new burn pot weldment ...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

This one https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/sam_1906-jpg.155260/  looks better than the other two which look like the door is open or cracked  But digital cameras also distort pictures of fires.  

I have one where the foreground and back ground are rock solid stable but the flame is aliased several times and above the stove.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

Just for giggles:


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

Actually they were all taken within seconds of each other just different distances from the stove lol ... I put the 3 there because I saw a huge variation of color and wondered what difference if anything the camera was capturing... but I did not have the door or hopper lid open in any of them... and in person the color of the  flames looked similar but big difference in color on the pics.
did not know digital distorts fire pics ;-(
Sorry


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## MountainSean (Mar 5, 2015)

It looks to me like the fire is burning too far to the rear of the burn pot. I would try adjusting the combustion trim pot down on the back of your control board so it has a little less air. That should cause the pellets to burn more towards the front portion of the burn pot. Are you also getting excessive carbon build up or wear on your auger shaft?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Just for giggles:
> 
> View attachment 155263


ohhh Wow   Hope there are no insurance agents on here next thing we will read is how dangerous pellet stoves   {citing pictures don't lie } are and our premiums will go through the roof ... LOL  !


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Actually they were all taken within seconds of each other just different distances from the stove lol ... I put the 3 there because I saw a huge variation of color and wondered what difference if anything the camera was capturing... but I did not have the door or hopper lid open in any of them... and in person the color of the  flames looked similar but big difference in color on the pics.
> did not know digital distorts fire pics ;-(
> Sorry



Yeah it is all that fancy processing software that needs to get out of the way.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

What is your feed rate set to?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

MountainSean said:


> It looks to me like the fire is burning too far to the rear of the burn pot. I would try adjusting the combustion trim pot down on the back of your control board so it has a little less air. That should cause the pellets to burn more towards the front portion of the burn pot. Are you also getting excessive carbon build up or wear on your auger shaft?


Thanks will try adjusting that as I did notice when it was just maintaining heat on low burn it was burning deep in the throat...
nope no build up at all on the auger / tech said it looked good ... no problems he could see...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> What is your feed rate set to?


feed rate set at 4... and the pellets do come out farther when it is calling for more heat ( today just happens to be a warm day here so it is for the most part just maintaining room temp... not calling for alot of heat... when it does our ash line is about 1" from the edge of the burn pot...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

Sounds like Sean may have a possible cure then.  Snap a few pictures of the burn pot when clean if you get back in there to make a change.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Sounds like Sean may have a possible cure then.  Snap a few pictures of the burn pot when clean if you get back in there to make a change.


Not sure of what you want me to take a pic of ? The burn pot was just installed a few days ago ...
also I am not sure where in the burn pot the fire is burning would make the flame go behind the flame guide ? even if it burns further out the fire is still going to be all the way to the back where the pellets are feeding... I still think  pellets are getting behind the guide somehow ... or is my thinking wrong ?


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## jackman (Mar 5, 2015)

The pics don't look too alarming to me. I'd recommend you lower the feed rate and see how it burns for a while. I keep my feed rate at 3 1/2.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

The surface of the burn pot so we can see the hole pattern.   

Air flow will pull the flame towards it.

The fire will be where there is enough air and heat to make the pellets burn.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

Hi 
Well the stove has started going crazy again burning a huge fire outside the pot ... 
woke up to flames shooting out the entire length of the bottom of the burn pot ( underneath not in the pot )
and now the pellets are being pushed off the burn pot without even fully burning...
This makes no sense as I turned the feed rate down to 3 1/2... it should have done the opposite...
Sorry can not get pic of this because it is too low to take a pic through the window and if I open the door the fire burning below the burn pot goes out... but the flame coming out below the burn pot were as big as the flames in the burn pot shooting towards  the door 
Have call into Harman tech that replaced the pot but like I said I have no faith in him...
Tried calling Harman customer service ... They are useless don't think I will be buying anymore Harman products in the future... If one can't get knowledgeable techs or at least try to help customer then this customer will not be giving them my money... Rant over sorry...
Harman stated they only talk to service reps and they have to be standing in front of my stove to make the call...
I informed them the tech has been here 3 times and has never called them and they told me to make him call 
Also forgot to take pic when I had stove off... but here is the burn pot they installed if that might help you ... http://cdn3.volusion.com/2umyp.x9e76/v/vspfiles/photos/1-10-08736-6.jpg?1403191687... 
Any suggestions after these new happenings ??? I am at a total loss...
Thanks for any help


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## jackman (Mar 6, 2015)

Hmmmm, I think it's a different problem. The stove is over firing. Are you running in room temp mode or stove temp mode? Try running the stove in a different mode to see how it behaves. I'd also turn the feed rate down to 3 or even lower to see if that is making any difference at all. You mentioned earlier that the ESP was replaced with no change in performance. The problem could be the room temp sensor or the control board.

My stove runs nearly all the time in room temp mode at a feed rate of 3 1/2. This keeps the fire in the back of the burn pot. Burning pellets never drop off the pot. I would expect your stove to behave the very same way.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

Currently we are running in Room temp mode... 

When all this was going on a few weeks ago (waiting for service call & then waiting for part to come in )
We changed it to Stove temp. and the pellet feeding seemed to be more uniform ( that was the reasoning behind changing it to stove temp)
So the pellets would not push on the flame guide & move it out of place ... it still would eventually do the same things but it  just seemed to be longer amounts of time until they happened and needed adjustment in stove mode.
I had searched through and read other posts on here and came across 1 of them that had suggested running in Stove mode for a more consistent pellet feed rate vs room temp where it was constantly changing what it was calling for depending on the temp of the room...That is why we tried it then...

Should I put it in Stove mode again and see if it changes anything ... or does what it did before give you any clues as to what is going on...
When we mentioned this to tech ( could there be something wrong with feed rate ) he said just leave it on 4 feed rate does not do anything ???

last night when I saw that it was overfeeding I adjusted the feed rate down to 2 and I still woke up with it pushing pellets over the front... so I lowered it to 1 this morning  and  finally a few hours later it has gradually moved back ... but the temp outside is also getting warmer so could be coincidental...

note... now that I think about it...it seems like when it is very cold outside ( as it was last night) and the stove calls for a larger fire, perhaps something is getting stuck or malfunctioning because once it starts feeding pellets at a higher rate it seems to go haywire feeding pellets ...


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## jackman (Mar 6, 2015)

It's sounding more likely you have a problem with the potentiometers on the control board. This is a common problem with Harman stoves. The "pots" develop dead spots. Sometimes rotating the knobs quickly can clear the dust but I had to replace mine after about the 5th year of ownership. BTW, how old is your stove? On my stove it became apparent when the auger motor would pulse pellets into the hopper even though the stove was turned off. Do a search in this forum on potentiometer and you'll get lots of info.

If you're handy with a soldering iron you can replace them for less than $10. Your stove tech will likely charge you a few hundred to replace the whole board.


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## ironpony (Mar 6, 2015)

sure looks like a bad gasket / seal to me. is the stove panel itself warped? I would be concerned about a hopper fire if it is leaking there.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

jackman does that burn pot look like yours in the hole pattern both on the main portion of the burn area and down by the beginning of the pot?  My search skills seem to not work today. 

ironpony that is where I was headed simply because of the colors I was seeing.


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## jackman (Mar 6, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> does that burn pot look like yours in the hole pattern both on the main portion of the burn area and down by the beginning of the pot?



I'm guessing you're referring to this earlier link: http://cdn3.volusion.com/2umyp.x9e76/v/vspfiles/photos/1-10-08736-6.jpg?1403191687

Yes my burn pot is exactly the same. The hole pattern is curious. It must be a Harman design feature.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

So what I am getting is this may be 2 separate problems going on at the same time ? 
The board and some type of gasket problem ?? 
The burn pot gasket was originally replaced end of last season late ( spring 2014) ... then this year when the fire outside of the pot continued the burn pot and the gasket was replaced (also week before that the door gasket was replaced even though it looked good ... just in case...) 
so burn pot gasket replaced twice... of note when he took the burn pot out I did not see any burnt parts on the gasket..
 burn pot replaced 
esp replaced
 ignitor replaced  ( just because he was in there so why not change it then )
as it was 7 yrs old... 

Tech said that the new burn pot made a tight fit/seal... watching him I did not notice any warping on the back wall ... but I was not doing the job myself... 
I am still awaiting a return call from tech about this mornings problem...
already know he will have no answers because he told me that the burn pot was the only thing that could cause the fire outside the box.

to answer Jackmans ? on age the stove is 7 years old...

this burn pot that they put in looks different than the 1 they replaced ... but I double checked and it is the proper part # for the Harman Accentra -2 ... on 1 site I saw that chain driven Accentra's take a different burn pot but it only had a picture no part #... so not sure if it is different pot or just their marketing practices... here is the link to it if anyone is interested
http://pellethead.com/product/1-10-08736-burn-pot-weldment-accentra-advance-xxv-old-style/
Thanks everyone so much for all the help I really appreciate it


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## 3650 (Mar 6, 2015)

Mine does the same thing. I just attribute it to creosote build up, which is what those pictures look like to me.  Creosote fire just like in a chimney. If you do a search you might find creosote and Accentra go hand in hand.  There were quite a few posts about problems with them years ago.  It seems like once it starts you never get rid of it.  I quit following the posts so I don't know if they ever found a solution. People were trying all kinds of modifications. I didn't.  I just let it burn.  It's contained to the firebox.

The more I think about it I recall there was a modification I believe some had success with.  I don't recall all the details but they were drilling a hole and putting an air tube somewhere.  Id try a search and maybe it will reveal itself.  If you are feeling ambitious sometime you could give it a whirl.  Im too lazy. Like I said I just let it burn.

I doubt there was anything wrong with your old pot.  If you saved it take a straight edge anput it against the mounting surface.  If there are no gaps then it is fine and you now have a spare.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

Yep that's what I was referring to.  

Low burn would take place just outside the end of the auger at the beginning of the burn pot over those small holes I think I am seeing in that picture HARMAN ACCENTR2 can you verify that as that other pot doesn't seem to have them and I vaguely recall  something about them being mentioned in the past.

If those pots are no longer making clean contact along their wiper area, the stove can be going between low feed and high feed limits or between thinking the stove is at temperature and then not at temperature.

That could keep the esp and control circuits busy doing ramp up and ramp downs.

But basically any (gasket issues) lack of seal where they must be can also cause some of the same actions although muted (warped parts). 

It will be interesting what the Harman tech once connected to home base does.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

I think I got lost somewhere on the last post Smokey ... 
What pot do you want me to verify ? The pot they removed ? the new pot that replaced it ? or the pot that I just gave a link to that stated it was for chain driven stove ?
with the old pot and the replacement pot I am still getting fire outside of pot on that shelf ...
the shelf area and the whole box around the burn pot was thoroughly cleaned of creosote build up before new pot was replaced ... that build up was from when the stove was throwing burning pellets out the back of the burn pot and that seems to have stopped with the new burn pot ( at least I do not see them falling on fire like I did before burn pot replacement ) but we are getting a fire outside the burn pot from somewhere ?

What gasket do you want me to look at of check ?

the tech had the stove hooked up to the draft reader machine 4 different times ...
all he says to me is everything seems to be operating like it should  ( except we have a fire outside the burn pot  ) whatever the temp is set at it maintained it etc.  
sorry for not understanding what you are asking

also I do not see or have never seen any smoke in the hopper ...
when I voiced my concern of fire Tech said it has no way of going into the hopper ...
which I do not totally believe because I have heard of hopper fires and would have to wonder how they got started ...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

off topic question ? 
why when I type my response do these emoticon come up when I hit post ... they are not there when I type my answer and they will not let me edit them to take them out... 
Just wondering if they automatically pop up when you type a certain word ? lol !


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> I think I got lost somewhere on the last post Smokey ...
> What pot do you want me to verify ? The pot they removed ? the new pot that replaced it ? or the pot that I just gave a link to that stated it was for chain driven stove ?
> with the old pot and the replacement pot I am still getting fire outside of pot on that shelf ...
> the shelf area and the whole box around the burn pot was thoroughly cleaned of creosote build up before new pot was replaced ... that build up was from when the stove was throwing burning pellets out the back of the burn pot and that seems to have stopped with the new burn pot ( at least I do not see them falling on fire like I did before burn pot replacement ) but we are getting a fire outside the burn pot from somewhere ?
> ...



I don't need you to check any particular gasket but where ever there is one you should check for warpage. 

The exsistance of the holes at the begining of the burn pot your picture seems to show some while this http://pellethead.com/product/1-10-08736-burn-pot-weldment-accentra-advance-xxv-old-style/ doesn't.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> off topic question ?
> why when I type my response do these emoticon come up when I hit post ... they are not there when I type my answer and they will not let me edit them to take them out...
> Just wondering if they automatically pop up when you type a certain word ? lol !



Multiple ! in a row are  .

ETA = = c in a row  .


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I don't need you to check any particular gasket but where ever there is one you should check for warpage.
> 
> The exsistance of the holes at the begining of the burn pot your picture seems to show some while this http://pellethead.com/product/1-10-08736-burn-pot-weldment-accentra-advance-xxv-old-style/ doesn't.



Ohhh I see there are only 5 rows of holes vs 8 in the old style pot ...
wonder which pot is better... could this be causing the burn /air issue?
Wonder how the tech decided on what pot to order ?

Thanks for that info I will not use multiple ! any more Lol . I could not figure out why they were popping up I thought I was losing my mind !


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

3650 said:


> Mine does the same thing. I just attribute it to creosote build up, which is what those pictures look like to me.  Creosote fire just like in a chimney. If you do a search you might find creosote and Accentra go hand in hand.  There were quite a few posts about problems with them years ago.  It seems like once it starts you never get rid of it.  I quit following the posts so I don't know if they ever found a solution. People were trying all kinds of modifications. I didn't.  I just let it burn.  It's contained to the firebox.
> 
> The more I think about it I recall there was a modification I believe some had success with.  I don't recall all the details but they were drilling a hole and putting an air tube somewhere.  Id try a search and maybe it will reveal itself.  If you are feeling ambitious sometime you could give it a whirl.  Im too lazy. Like I said I just let it burn.
> 
> I doubt there was anything wrong with your old pot.  If you saved it take a straight edge anput it against the mounting surface.  If there are no gaps then it is fine and you now have a spare.



I let the tech take the pot because once he removed it we saw the flame guide was sitting over a 1/4" too low which theoretically was causing the pellets to get behind it and cause the fire behind it..
He definitely thought this burn pot and flame guide would do the trick... 
Unfortunately it is not...
will research more with words you suggested ( creosote build up & Accentra ) Hopefully will get to the bottom of this somehow
as we use this pellet stove as our only heating source and at this point I am afraid to leave the house for more than a few minutes...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

That modification 3650 was talking about was a fix for the gummy stove syndrome.

ETA: And why I asked about any signs of smoke in the hopper.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks for saving me some researching steps looking for that  ;-) 
So is that modification only IF I would get Smoke in the hopper at a future time
 or should I look into it NOW because of the fire outside of the burn pot ?


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## jackman (Mar 6, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> I think I got lost somewhere on the last post Smokey ...
> What pot do you want me to verify ? The pot they removed ? the new pot that replaced it ? or the pot that I just gave a link to that stated it was for chain driven stove ?
> with the old pot and the replacement pot I am still getting fire outside of pot on that shelf ...
> the shelf area and the whole box around the burn pot was thoroughly cleaned of creosote build up before new pot was replaced ... that build up was from when the stove was throwing burning pellets out the back of the burn pot and that seems to have stopped with the new burn pot ( at least I do not see them falling on fire like I did before burn pot replacement ) but we are getting a fire outside the burn pot from somewhere ?
> ...




Confusing yes. The potentiometers (the knobs) on the control board are sometimes abbreviated to "pots". Potentiometers have a wiper that slides on a wire to change the resistance/voltage of the circuit. Eventually it wears out. It's not to be confused with the burn pot. 

I don't believe your problem has anything to do with the burn pot, gaskets, or seals. The reason you're seeing so much flame around the burn pot is because the stove is over firing. You simply have too much flame because the auger is pushing too many pellets into the burn pot. I suspect the control board is wacky. Does the stove shut down okay? If the stove keeps running even though the control knob is set to off that's a sure clue the problem is the control board.

While I'm no expert or a pellet stove tech or dealer I do have the exact same stove as you. It's likely our stoves were manufactured about the same time. Hopefully my experience is helpful.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 6, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Thanks for saving me some researching steps looking for that  ;-)
> So is that modification only IF I would get Smoke in the hopper at a future time
> or should I look into it NOW because of the fire outside of the burn pot ?



Only a certain serial number range was supposed to be affected on certain stove models.  I don't have that information.


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## RKS130 (Mar 6, 2015)

I briefly had a similar issue with my Accentra FS.  Freaked me out when I came down one morning to flames all over the place - left of the burn pot, under it, to the right.  I cranked my feed rate way down - set it on 2 - and it solved the problem. 

Ends up the pellets I was burning at the time were quite small - about 1/4 inch long, so way too much fuel was being delivered with each crank of the auger.  Pellet size is about the only thing I adjust the fed rate for, but it did make a difference and I have not had the problem since.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

Thank you for that clarification 
Now I understand better.
I thought the stove was taking longer to shut down than it used to But again Harman tech said oh no they can take hours to shut down ...
my stove was purchased 10/5/07 ( just pulled out the paperwork ... 
I do not have any blinking lights and the stove does not shut off itself like I am currently in the middle of reading about sticky stove syndrome issues ... I am awaiting for the links to go back online to show me what a sticky stove looks like but they are currently telling me they are unavailable....


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

A couple new questions...
 Could this fire outside the burn pot be creosote catching fire & burning off ? perhaps there was residue left and at higher temps when the stove is really burning a larger / hotter fire it ignites ?

Read all about gummy stoves opened the back of mine and see a clear tube  on the right hand side of the stove ( looking at it from the back )
is this the modification or is there another clear tube back there for something else... it is in the general vicinity of the pic showing the modification but not exactly so hence the question...

Thanks again as you can tell this has really got me crazy...


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## gfreek (Mar 6, 2015)

I am assuming the clear tube you see is for the differential/vacuum switch.  It goes from the hopper to the vacuum switch and senses  stove vacuum/pressure..


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 6, 2015)

gfreek said:


> I am assuming the clear tube you see is for the differential/vacuum switch.  It goes from the hopper to the vacuum switch and senses  stove vacuum/pressure..


Thank you Your assumption is correct I just looked it up with the name you supplied 
Have a great night


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## gfreek (Mar 7, 2015)

The DDM is Harmans answer to a stove diagnostic tool that plugs into the circuit board.  Your problem seems strange .. I hope you get it figured out..


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 7, 2015)

Thanks so do I 
Other than the fire outside the burn pot ( and that is a huge other than ) it is heating the house fine


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## 3650 (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm interested in what the tech turns up, as I have been burning mine with this issue for about 5 years. Its not my primary but it does see son duty during cold snaps.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 7, 2015)

3650 said:


> I'm interested in what the tech turns up, as I have been burning mine with this issue for about 5 years. Its not my primary but it does see son duty during cold snaps.




3650  Just wondering if you have seen pellets that had just ignited falling behind & then to the sides of the  flame guide...
I don't mean off the sides of the burn pot I mean actually behind the flame guide then they fall on that metal shelf under the burn pot ... in all the posts I have read about flames outside of the burn pot none have mentioned where they originated from... so I am curious... may be a clue as to what process is taking place ???
probably grasping at straws but the more info the better in my mind...

will update as we work through this


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## MSmith66 (Mar 7, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a Harman Accentra2 FS pellet stove .
> Have had an ongoing issue with a fire burning behind the flame guide and on the sides and underneath the burn pot. I would see burning pellets drop from the back and fall into the metal shelf that surrounds the burn pot... then the pellets started piling up on the sides of the burn pot on the metal box/shelf I would have to knock them down into the ash pan to stop the burning...and actually at times it would move the flame guide off of track and into the burn pot...
> ...


I have a P61 and when the stove runs low and slow for a little while,  a small amount of creosote does form on the back side of the grate and flame guide. Only when it burns low and slow. When it is burning fast and hot there is no problem.


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## 3650 (Mar 7, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> I will post what happens ...  like I said he has been here 3 times before and does not have any idea of what it could be ...
> I am going to ask him once again to call Harman ( as that is what Harman instructed ) to see if they tell him anything ...
> 
> 3650  Just wondering if you have seen pellets that had just ignited falling behind & then to the sides of the  flame guide...
> ...



no. I just have creosote around the burnpot. I chip it away periodically. I comes back. Sometimes its so thick I can't even see the bolts that fasten the pot.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 14, 2015)

Update :
Harman has told Dealer they have never heard of this issue ... and it has to be an air issue ... they think the flames I am seeing are just flames curling around the flame guide  REALLY I had this stove for 6 yrs before this and it never had a fire outside of the burn pot... their suggestion was to make sure the grates are not loose ? to my knowledge the grates only go in one way and have the latch to hold them on place ??? Not to mention the tech was the last 1 to put them in after changing the burn pot ...
I am certainly disgusted with Harman and their lack of customer service...
Here are some pics I took of the flames outside the burn pot after the New burn pot had been installed...
Do they look like flames curling around the flame guide to anyone?
1st Picture  I am trying to show the flame that burns out side of the burn pot on the side and pics next 3 pics show the flame coming from under/beneath the burn pot...
Harman tech will call next week when the kit to take smoke out of the hopper is delivered to him... ( which I do not have any smoke in the hopper and never have ) But this is their best guess since changing the burn pot did not fix the problem.
Will update when that is done and let you know if it has helped the fire outside the burn pot issue...
Any suggestions in the mean time would be greatly appreciated...
Note: Normally there is no smoke in the window of the pellet stove  but when these fires outside the burn pot start I am now seeing smoke... when they go out the smoke goes away ... any thoughts on that?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 14, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Update :
> Harman has told Dealer they have never heard of this issue ... and it has to be an air issue ... they think the flames I am seeing are just flames curling around the flame guide  REALLY I had this stove for 6 yrs before this and it never had a fire outside of the burn pot... their suggestion was to make sure the grates are not loose ? to my knowledge the grates only go in one way and have the latch to hold them on place ??? Not to mention the tech was the last 1 to put them in after changing the burn pot ...
> I am certainly disgusted with Harman and their lack of customer service...
> Here are some pics I took of the flames outside the burn pot after the New burn pot had been installed...
> ...




If you have an email address for Harman send those pictures to them and copy the dealer.  Meanwhile back off the feed A LOT or better yet quit burning the stove until it is fixed.  If Harman has a facebook page post those pictures there if possible and ask what gives?


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## Phoenix Hatchling (Mar 14, 2015)

Is this the new ACCENTRA 2 ? If so, I think you are due an entire replacement unit. If this were a car it would have long been covered under the lemon law. It would behoove Harman to get the unit back to their "shop" and rip the thing apart to find the cause. The tech, if they represented the dealership should have done this after the first several futile attempts.


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## 3650 (Mar 14, 2015)

Never heard of it? Lol. This forum is littered with this issue. Like I said I've been burning mine like that for years. They probably aren't concerned about and wont be unless someones home burns down because of it. Typical corporate behavior...anything to make sales and then minimize any after support to maintain profit. One option is to sell it and pick up a Cumberland.....lol. You'll love it. I may be a little bias.

I still think its creosote burning. Is there a build up around the sides and bottom of pot? It could also be some form of secondary combustion. The smoke gases burning off. Mine looks identical to that.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow Thanks for the great ideas  ! I will check out Facebook ...

Actually I took these pictures to email to the Dealer so that he could show HARMAN the problem and that it was NOT Flames CURLING around the flame guide  Which really burned me up ( excuse the play on words )  When I called to ask for his email address he does not have an email...( this is rural Central PA where not having an email is not as unbelievable as most would think in today's day and age...

I wish I had an email to Harman ... Like I said in an earlier post THEY won't even talk to the consumer ... I was INSTRUCTED to have the HARMAN TECH  call them as they are the only people HARMAN will speak to 
That is why I am so disappointed with HARMAN when I used to think their product was the best... Now NOT SO MUCH...
If there is no SERVICE AFTER the SALE then the product is not as good as it once was... 
I would not buy another Harman to replace this after this fiasco like 3650 stated 



3650 said:


> Never heard of it? Lol. This forum is littered with this issue.


When I told that to the Harman phone operator PAUL  who would not  let me speak to anyone who knew anything about the stove He stated that they never heard of it and that it was a Unique problem and I had to have TECH call and speak to their Tech ...

Very frustrating to say the least actually if I have to replace I will look into OTHER makers as I feel like I am being held hostage by Harman not communicating with the owner and the dealer being at a loss as to what is going on...and NOW Harman still not helping or getting involved ...

P.s. 3650 
I too liked your theory of creosote burning so
I totally cleaned all creosote around the burn pot it was impeccably clean when I got done... unfortunately the flames outside of the burn pot are still happening ...

Last night I was reading other posts and came across this 1 I was just about rolling on the floor laughing !All I could think of is I would like to give Barry Boyer a real customers take on his employees ...

_* I spent three days at Harman catching up on QuadraFire pellet stove training. I have to say Barry Boyer is an awesome instructor (give that man a raise and a trip to the company spa). Mike Meyer of HHT you made a great choice having him run the program there. Thanks for introducing the Mt Vernon E2 to me, seems to be a good system. As always the tour of the plant is a highlight of the visit. The employees at Harman are the best and they are the best part in production of the units. It is also good to see QuadraFire gas units in production there. I hope it continues to improve sales and quality. There is a lot of great stuff coming from Harman and HHT. Other stove manufactures better be prepared for the future. Harman is still leading the way.


Eric 

Veteran owned and operated On Facebook as Brookfield Stoves a Local U-Haul Dealer
Harman, QuadraFire, and Heatilator are our main brands
NFI certified in wood and wood pellet, working on gas certification
Think GREEN Please save the planet, it is the only one with beer. "
kinsmanstoves, Thursday at 9:30 AM *_


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 14, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> If you have an email address for Harman send those pictures to them and copy the dealer.  Meanwhile back off the feed A LOT or better yet quit burning the stove until it is fixed.  If Harman has a facebook page post those pictures there if possible and ask what gives?


Smokey I have the feed down to 1 1/2 ... if you look at the pictures blown up you could see better the ash line & burning is back farther . Certainly no pellets being pushed over the burn pots edge...
Also another disappointment Harman or HHT does not have a Facebook page ... Would have loved to be able to get these pics to them...
Thanks for all the help and ideas 1 of these times we will figure it out if we keep on trying... Cuz I do not think Harman is going to help...


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## bogieb (Mar 14, 2015)

Message Eric and see if he possibly has an email for someone at Harman - since he seems to be someone who they not only will talk to, but let into their plant.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 14, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Message Eric and see if he possibly has an email for someone at Harman - since he seems to be someone who they not only will talk to, but let into their plant.


Thanks I just did that...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 14, 2015)

HHT harinfo@hearthnhome.com  they own the Harman brand.     https://www.facebook.com/HarmanStoves   All kinds of links to social media pages there at the bottom.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 14, 2015)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> Is this the new ACCENTRA 2 ? If so, I think you are due an entire replacement unit. If this were a car it would have long been covered under the lemon law. It would behoove Harman to get the unit back to their "shop" and rip the thing apart to find the cause. The tech, if they represented the dealership should have done this after the first several futile attempts.



No it is a six year old stove.


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## Phoenix Hatchling (Mar 14, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> No it is a six year old stove.



I thought the Accentra 2 was the most current iteration?


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## GeHmTS (Mar 16, 2015)

Did you check to make sure the plate is tighten?  It looks like some fire is coming from the plate area.  How do you start the fire?  Do you use any fire starter?  Fire starter can cause this if it drips around the burn pot area and through the holes.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 16, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> Did you check to make sure the plate is tighten?  It looks like some fire is coming from the plate area.  How do you start the fire?  Do you use any fire starter?  Fire starter can cause this if it drips around the burn pot area and through the holes.



Yes I checked the plates and they are tight...
No there is No fire coming from the plates when you see it in person that flame you see is coming from between the Outside side of the Burn pot and the open space around it ... the burn pot is wider in the front and narrower in the back so it is almost impossible to get a picture of that small area where the flames are coming from... I think I did a pretty darn good job of capturing the flames certainly not an easy task...
Actually the fire starts totally behind the flame guide ( but that is impossible to capture in a picture ) and then works its way out that the side and shoots out the bottom then it can be photographed...
I have never used anything to start the fire it Ignites itself on Auto .
I personally would think something was wrong with my stove if it did not light itself ?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 16, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> HHT harinfo@hearthnhome.com  they own the Harman brand.     https://www.facebook.com/HarmanStoves   All kinds of links to social media pages there at the bottom.



Thanks Smokey 
I don't know why this page did not come up when I went on facebook just their warehouse came up and there was no where to leave comments or messages... your link took me to the Harman page 
Will be contacting them through facebook in the near future ...
From reading other posters posts seems like what I am experiencing is Harman's M. O. send the tech out to do the same thing with the same unsatisfactory results... and people not being able to get a hold of their tech... That and the fact that I only have 1 tech in my area are holding me back from posting on there immediately... I do want this fixed so whatever it takes...  eventually if I can't find an email to send it privately I will post on there...
Thinking I will call and try to get a direct email... as Eric never responded to my message  this weekend...
I will continue to try to get to the bottom of this problem...
I so appreciate your help
Have a great day...


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## GeHmTS (Mar 16, 2015)

Here's an experiment you can try the next time you observe fire around/underneath the burn pot.

Open the door during low burn and see what's happening to fire underneath/around the burn pot?  The fuel in the burn pot should go to a lazy fire.  What happens to the fire underneath/around the burn pot?  If there is no fuel, such as fly ash/pellet fines, then it should die down when the door is opened.  If it continues to burn (lazy flame), then your stove is generating a secondary fuel source similar to the mechanism of how ash is deposited on glass.

You can also close the door and the fire should restart.  If you have a thermometer, you can measure the temperature at which the fire around/underneath the burn pot starts to ignite or just feel the air coming out of the distribution blower to get a quick feel.  If it is creosote are something like that, it will start burning again with a long delay after the door is closed.  Fly ash, pellet fines, will burn sooner.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 16, 2015)

When I open the door I hear a loud poof and the fire outside the burn pot goes out immediately (simultaneously to the poof noise).
When I close the door the moment the stove calls for pellets the fire behind the burn pot starts again ... these fires usually happen on higher burns ... not low burning...
p.s. if the fire in the burn pot happens to go it it always reignites when I close the door...

does that info tell you anything ?


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## TonyVideo (Mar 16, 2015)

The pics look like you are missing the lower plate where the igniter resides.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 16, 2015)

No the lower plate is secure & in the proper place  ... it is a Brand new Burn pot which was installed by Harman tech ... the Plate would only get removed to clean out the ash in there ...since the burn pot was only a few days old when I took these pics there was no need to clean it yet... when you are taking pictures through the glass window to capture the flames you can not see the plate as the burn pot is angled


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## GeHmTS (Mar 16, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> When I open the door I hear a loud poof and the fire outside the burn pot goes out immediately (simultaneously to the poof noise).
> When I close the door the moment the stove calls for pellets the fire behind the burn pot starts again ... these fires usually happen on higher burns ... not low burning...
> p.s. if the fire in the burn pot happens to go it it always reignites when I close the door...
> 
> does that info tell you anything ?



Here's my inductive reasoning:  I hope it helps.

I'm just curious, did you inspect the back of the back of the plate on the old one for staining around the hole and square areas?  The area around the hole where the gas is escaping will discolor the steel a little bit since it interacting with the gases.  The fire in the burn pot and the fire around/underneath it are from the same source.  Just curious, how long have you had the stove and when did the issue first appear?  Part of the seal relies on coefficient of thermal expansion between the mating surfaces, but if the surface finish develops defects over time, those thermal coefficients will not be enough to create a good seal.  Therefore, fire underneath/around burn pot is one possible failure mode of the seal breaking down.

The poof sounds is probably due to the gases expanding rapidly to reach equilibrium with the surrounding environment at 1 atm.  You can also get a poof sound if you load up too much fuel over a hot bed of pellets, shut the door and let the fire reignite.  Although it may be hard to believe, your seal is not as flush as you might think it is.  Yes, it's better, but it's not flush!.  Gases from the pellets are finding their way through the back of the plate, leaking out and igniting.  The heat from the fuel is igniting the gas and causing the fire that you're seeing. 

When you can no longer rely on the thermal coefficients, then you will need to seal it with a high temp gasket of some sort that is the same shape as the back of the burn pot.  I'm not sure if Harman sells these too.  I would be surprised if Harman isn't aware of the issue, yet they let it continue because it's not a safety concern for them and the leak is confided within the stove itself.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 18, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> No the lower plate is secure & in the proper place  ... it is a Brand new Burn pot which was installed by Harman tech ... the Plate would only get removed to clean out the ash in there ...since the burn pot was only a few days old when I took these pics there was no need to clean it yet... when you are taking pictures through the glass window to capture the flames you can not see the plate as the burn pot is angled



Likely the pot is trying to seal against a warped weldment and as GeHmTS notes a gasket may now be needed there in any event what the he double is the dealer doing?,


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## gfreek (Mar 18, 2015)

Maybe a double gasket is needed, makes sense


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 18, 2015)

Hello GeHmTS,  SmokeyTheBear & gfreek

Sorry I was ill and not on here past few days...
Thanks for all the responses and suggestions and questions 
to answer GeHmTS  about the gasket ...
The Gasket was the 1st thing that was replaced 

burn pot gasket, then
flame guide
then esp
None of which helped..

Then a new Burn pot and another New gasket were installed
tech checked for warping and showed us that the gasket was still perfect and clean no signs of smoke residue...
So this lead me to believe that there was no leaking , or flames touching that area ( I may be wrong but that was my deduction at the time )
I assumed I would see discoloration since the gasket is a thick snow white material...
If my thinking is wrong please advise .

To answer SmokeyTheBear I am still waiting the Harman tech to call and tell me that the air kit that was ordered has arrived from Harman and set up an appointment to install asap ...
BUT that call has not come yet... and I have been home because I was sick... 
I think it is ridiculous that we are literally less than 2 hours away from Harman and it takes almost 2 weeks to get a part... I am telling you this is mind boggling... If I thought I would get anywhere I would drive there myself...
but with the way Harman is they won't do direct anything with the customer...
Other than waiting for the kit he is doing nothing... went over the potentiometers with him and he said everything was working  well according to the ddm ... but if I want he will order a new board... told him I just want my stove fixed I do not want to replace things for no reason as this is getting expensive... If he thinks I need a new board  I have no problem replacing it if it would cure the situation ... he said he does not think I need a new board everything was working perfectly... 
that's my update 
Huge Thanks to all who are still trying to assist me in a resolution to this problem
Have a great night


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## frankie (Mar 19, 2015)

I have the same problem. I just cut a piece of asbestos rope the width of the flame guide and pressed it in so the rope was tight. It held the flame guide from moving. My guide was moving ever so slight when pellets were fed. The pellets were actually making the guide move and allowing the same fire that you have. Try a strip of 1/2 or 3/4 inch rope and see what happens. I cut the rope in 3 inch lengths.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

frankie said:


> I have the same problem. I just cut a piece of asbestos rope the width of the flame guide and pressed it in so the rope was tight. It held the flame guide from moving. My guide was moving ever so slight when pellets were fed. The pellets were actually making the guide move and allowing the same fire that you have. Try a strip of 1/2 or 3/4 inch rope and see what happens. I cut the rope in 3 inch lengths.


Hi Frankie
Can you be a little more specific about where you put the rope behind the flame guide ?
Across the top of it or across the bottom or both ?

Yes the flame guide does move ever so slightly So this is definitely worth a try .
I just ran out and got the gasket rope but don't want to put it in until I am sure how you want it...
Thanks ever so much


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## GeHmTS (Mar 19, 2015)

Here's an article on making your own gasket.  Check it out

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ower-hi-temp-lytherm-gasket-from-sheet.86680/


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## Lake Girl (Mar 19, 2015)

frankie said:


> I just cut a piece of asbestos rope the width of the flame guide and pressed it in so the rope was tight. It held the flame guide from moving.



For those that have an old flame guide, is it possible to weld a small tab somewhere on the guide to keep it from moving out of place?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> Here's an article on making your own gasket.  Check it out
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ower-hi-temp-lytherm-gasket-from-sheet.86680/


Great to know that & where you can buy the material and make your own  I think the actual burn pot gasket was only about $10 and it was pretty thick ... 
when the tech removed the one that was in there it was still thick ... will have to look into the different gaskets the stove calls for to see if they have the same or varying thicknesses ...
Definitely think have a sheet or 2 of this material to make your own could come in handy...
Since I have made gaskets for other things in the past  ( that gaskets were no longer available for ) I have confidence I can make them for this stove... 
Thanks so much for that link


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> For those that have an old flame guide, is it possible to weld a small tab somewhere on the guide to keep it from moving out of place?


Just relaying what I was told
when I asked the Harman tech that question. He said he would advise against it because of the contraction and expansion of the flame guide and how it rides/ sits on the sides of the burn pot...


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## Lake Girl (Mar 19, 2015)

Did you follow up with your tech on the apparent overfeed and the  potentiometers?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> Did you follow up with your tech on the apparent overfeed and the  potentiometers?


Hi Lake Girl


HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> went over the potentiometers with him and he said everything was working well according to the ddm ... but if I want he will order a new board... told him I just want my stove fixed I do not want to replace things for no reason as this is getting expensive... If he thinks I need a new board I have no problem replacing it if it would cure the situation ... he said he does not think I need a new board everything was working perfectly...
> that's my update


Yes I did 
Just keeps saying everything is working to specifications according to the DDM they hook up... so he is at a loss as he has actually seen the flames burning outside the burn pot BUT he does not know what to do except try this air kit that we have been waiting 2 weeks to be delivered from Harman... as far as just replacing the potentiometers he said no way he has never heard of doing that & if there would be something wrong with a customers board Harman  suggests ONLY REPLACING the board ... The techs are not allowed to do anything else to the boards ...And he says my board is working perfectly...


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## Lake Girl (Mar 19, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> The techs are not allowed to do anything else to the boards



If all else fails and you do replace the board, keep the old board and find one of the board repair services to check and/or replace potentiometers.  Back-ups are always good

PS - We had a Chev Aveo, computer at local dealer said injection system; husband said fuel pump.  When it left me stranded in the city, towed to a dealer and traded it in.  Heard later that Hubby was right - fuel pump!


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> If all else fails and you do replace the board, keep the old board and find one of the board repair services to check and/or replace potentiometers.  Back-ups are always good
> 
> PS - We had a Chev Aveo, computer at local dealer said injection system; husband said fuel pump.  When it left me stranded in the city, towed to a dealer and traded it in.  Heard later that Hubby was right - fuel pump!



Thanks we are learning to keep the old parts as  back ups... certainly better than being stranded without parts because the dealer takes so long to get them in ... 
Definitely not saying dealer is correct ... Just stating what they say...
Absolutely agree with your PS
I have more confidence in the help I am getting on this site from people who own Harman stoves and have fixed issues themselves... I have received a lot of good suggestions and info from everyone 
  Having to go through  ( and be at the mercy of ) a Harman dealer just to get parts and service is the worst thing about owning a Harman stove ... 
I have replaced motors and other parts on this stove myself in the past because it was going to take too long before tech could get to it   ... just weary of touching the board while it is still giving us perfect heat and keeping the temp. at exactly what it is set at... 
Especially when we are getting another 3-8" of snow tomorrow...


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## Lake Girl (Mar 19, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> getting another 3-8" of snow tomorrow


Again?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 19, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> Again?


yep... pretty sick of it this season... can't wait for Spring... Oh wait the 1st day of Spring is tomorrow
Oh well HAPPY Spring to all  !!
Hoping this is the last storm of this season


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 22, 2015)

Update
Tried the rope gasket behind the burn pot as suggested.
Unfortunately did not help.
The flames outside the burn pot issue continued ...
Watched it for 48 hours before declaring it a failure...
Was really hoping it would be the answer ...

Still waiting for Harman dealer to call to make appt. for air kit installation ...
He still has not received the shipment from Harman...Not happy.
Will be calling him again Monday morning

In the meantime any ideas are more than welcome .

Ps. 3650 you may want to give this rope gasket idea a try on your Accentra ... cheap and easy enough so I figure it may be worth a try...


3650 said:


> I'm interested in what the tech turns up, as I have been burning mine with this issue for about 5 years. Its not my primary but it does see son duty during cold snaps.


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## gfreek (Mar 22, 2015)

Where exactly did you put the rope gasket ?  Behind the Cast flame guide?..



HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Still waiting for Harman dealer to call to make appt. for air kit installation



What is the reason for the OAK & the burn outside the burn pot?  I really hope you get this figured out.  Something is not right as you know already !!


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## GeHmTS (Mar 22, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Update
> Tried the rope gasket behind the burn pot as suggested.
> Unfortunately did not help.
> The flames outside the burn pot issue continued ...
> ...



Did it fail straight away are sometime after the gasket was applied?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 22, 2015)

gfreek said:


> Where exactly did you put the rope gasket ?  Behind the Cast flame guide?..
> 
> 
> What is the reason for the OAK & the burn outside the burn pot?  I really hope you get this figured out.  Something is not right as you know already !!



Hi gfreek

Yes put it behind he flame guide and pushed it down until it would not go anymore...
made the flame guide very tight against the burn pot and theoretically would not allow pellets to push it out of place
or for pellets to get behind it ... if that would have been the problem...
but in my case it did not fix the problem I still got flames on both sides behind & outside of the burn pot...

The Harman tech feels that by adding that tubing it may help the fire outside the burn pot issue... he really did not explain why ... I did tell him we do not have smoke in the hopper but he said he thinks it will help... at this point I am at a loss as to what is causing the burning outside the burn pot


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 22, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> Did it fail straight away are sometime after the gasket was applied?



Hi GeHmTS
As soon as we put it in and it started calling for a hotter/larger fire ( had to shut down the stove to do this ) it started  ... just like when we did not have it there... usually doesn't burn outside the burn pot with a small fire but when it starts calling for more heat that is when the fire starts behind and down the sides of the burn pot ( Not just in the burn pot )
and when it is really a raging fire it will shoot out the bottom ( totally outside underneath the burn pot ) below the entire burn pot weldment...  we waited to see if trying to push it in more etc. would help get better results ... but no adjustment worked... it still started fires outside the burn pot on both sides...
The rope gasket is still in perfect shape it did not burn or get changed in any way by the fire/ heat... it did what it was intended to do by not allowing the flame guide to move but I guess that is not what is causing the problem .


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## 3650 (Mar 22, 2015)

I cant wrap my head around what he was doing with the rope gasket.  Does it go on top of the flame guide?

I woke up to this several weeks ago.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 23, 2015)

3650 said:


> View attachment 156183
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That picture looks like a familiar site... my wife woke me up @4 a.m. over a month ago to an even scarier site ... the flame guide was in the raging fire & flames shooting all around & under the burn pot... The flame guide was almost see through red Molten lava color she was hysterical & thought it was going to melt in the fire or start a house fire... that was before we had them replace the burn pot though... but definitely think your and my Accentra have the same problem... 

To answer your question 
We cut the rope gasket (we used 3/4") O.P. said you could try 1/2 or 3/4" to about about 4" length and as you insert the flame guide lay it on the back (top) of the flame guide and push the flame guide into place then we took a screw driver and pushed (what was sticking up) behind the flame guide as far as it would go in ( you will still see some of it at the top of the flame guide) 
But that is o.k. it does not catch on fire or burn... 
What this did was make the flame guide impossible to move it created a very very tight fit ...
I don't know the mechanics what else it may be intended to help ( fire outside the burn pot )... but I do know
There is no way the pellets are going to push the flame guide off if you do this... 

Since we replaced the burn pot we did not have the pellets moving the flame guide problem any longer...
I still thought it was worth a try because it seemed like the new burn pot with the flame guide had a little more movement when it was feeding pellets and perhaps it was causing the fire to get outside the burn pot somehow ... but not in my case... 
Good news is it did fix the O.P. flames outside the burn pot... so worth a try IMHO...
If you try it let me know if it works... Good luck


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## 3650 (Mar 23, 2015)

Ahhh....I see. Yes I have often considered fastening that stinking flame guide permanently. I dont know why they leave it loose. I dont think the other Harmans are like that.


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## bogieb (Mar 24, 2015)

3650 said:


> Ahhh....I see. Yes I have often considered fastening that stinking flame guide permanently. I dont know why they leave it loose. I dont think the other Harmans are like that.



P61a has a loose flame guide and I assume the others do too. However, that sucker is heavy (for its size), so it would take a lot to move it.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

bogieb said:


> P61a has a loose flame guide and I assume the others do too. However, that sucker is heavy (for its size), so it would take a lot to move it.



Yes I think  all Harmans have a removable flame guide too 

bogieb I thought the same thing before I  had the problem ... once it starts it really does not take anything more than pellets being fed into the burn pot to move it ... I would have found it hard to believe before I actually watched it happen right before my eyes ... I believe the pellets somehow get under the flame guide and lift it so that it is not sitting on the side walls of the burn pot and once lifted up that tiny bit the continue ( each time they feed to push it up and off track more...
Just my thoughts on what I witnessed...


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## 3650 (Mar 24, 2015)

Hmmm I remember seeing pics of a Harman burn pot where the flame guide was a steel plate just the same as the rest of the pot and it was welded to it.


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## TonyVideo (Mar 24, 2015)

Mine is removable but there is no way that pellets could lift it up. It is on a grooved track. There is nothing the pellets could grab a hold to lift unless the plate possibly have carbon build up and it would have to have a lot. The weight of plate is too heavy. The path of least resistance would be out not up for the pellets. The burn pot would have to have a lot of carbon build up to force the pellets up and not out. The plate is at angle down to the entrance.  The weight of the plate alone would make it unreasonable. Clean the plate so it is smooth with a wire brush then the pellets would have to slide by.


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## Cory S (Mar 24, 2015)

There is combustion below the burn pot.....  It's not a door gasket issue.  Somehow, some fuel (ignitable gasses) are floating around under the burn pot.  Possible combustion/exhaust blower issue.....  Not enough air being forced up through the air jet holes?  Not enough pull on the exhaust path?  Your flames should be much more focused, and drawing straight up with a little authority.  The balance between combustion blower, and exhaust could be way off.


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## keep-in warm (Mar 24, 2015)

I would like to see pictures after the stove is turned off and cool.  Don't do anything other than open the door and take 5 or 6 angles, then we can dissect and discuss before cleaning and taking more pictures.

In some of your burn pictures the flame guide appears lifted on the right front.  Could be just the pictures.  You said you also have 3 flame guides.  can you post pics?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

TonyVideo said:


> Mine is removable but there is no way that pellets could lift it up. It is on a grooved track. There is nothing the pellets could grab a hold to lift unless the plate possibly have carbon build up and it would have to have a lot. The weight of plate is too heavy. The path of least resistance would be out not up for the pellets. The burn pot would have to have a lot of carbon build up to force the pellets up and not out. The plate is at angle down to the entrance.  The weight of the plate alone would make it unreasonable. Clean the plate so it is smooth with a wire brush then the pellets would have to slide by.



As I previously stated I did not believe it possible until I saw it with my own eyes ...
Your reasoning was mine before I saw it.. as far as cleaning
The Harman tech commented that he never saw a stove kept so clean... I clean the burn pot minimum of twice daily...
once in the afternoon and once before going to bed... it definitely has no carbon build up causing any problem... much less a lot of build up... most I ever get off is a very thin spot here or there... As far as the flame guide being cleaned ... I clean it at the same time as the burn pot...I have wire brushes to get the ash off and when it has turned to  carbon, then  I remove it ( the guide) and clean it to a perfectly smooth state...
So in this case there is no way it is because of any type of build up...
We still have the original ignitor and it was working perfectly (7 years of burning between 4-6 tons of pellets  a season...the tech could not believe it ... that is how clean we keep the stove... no ash build up there either...
Mine is also on the same track and grooves... Harman only makes 2 different flame guides for all the different models of pellet stoves (from what I have been told ) and they are both grooved and sit on the burn pot...

I wish it was a cleaning problem that would be a very easy thing to fix...


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## keep-in warm (Mar 24, 2015)

One of the flame guides has extra notches in the back for air holes you do not have,  I have this one in the XXV which should be different than yours.  Just want to be sure you are running the correct one.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

keep-in warm said:


> I would like to see pictures after the stove is turned off and cool.  Don't do anything other than open the door and take 5 or 6 angles, then we can dissect and discuss before cleaning and taking more pictures.


Will do in a couple of days ... just had it off and cleaned it yesterday so no sense doing it while it is perfectly clean
Can tell you what I saw until I take the pics ...
thin coating of creosote ( shiny black on the bottom of the burn pot { by bottom I mean below the ignitor access door that is removable )
thin layer of fly ash on the metal shelf around the burn pot
and a very thin coating of creosote on the sides of the burn pot... The creosote coating is exactly where the flames burn out side the pot .
So that was no surprise to me 
I wire brushed the creosote off as to not have an additional source of possible flames...
other than that it was just normal cleaning brushed off grates  then removed and cleaned behind grates empty ash pan which only had less than an inch of ash in it...
vacuumed ignitor hole and the top where the ash builds up ( not sure what they are coils or fins ) but they run along the top underneath of the stove ... and cleaned the window...
Like I said when we shut it down for the tech to come in a few days I will snap pics for you and post ...
Hopefully that may show something


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## keep-in warm (Mar 24, 2015)

No rush...this is the flame guide with the extra notches.

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Pellet-Stove-Flame-Guide-p/3-00-03000.htm

And for your stove:

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Pellet-Stove-Flame-Guide-p/3-00-08534.htm

The 8th post on page one are three pictures you posted,  The last in the series looks like the guide is lifted on the right.  Odd.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

Yes I have the one for the Accentra... actually we have 3 of them ... when the 1 fell in the fire that night I did not trust it to not be warped so when the tech was here we purchased another one... and it was the same as the 2 we had ... He took the serial # off the stove to make sure he ordered the correct parts.  Also the part # from my Installation & operating manual confirmed it was the right guide that he gave me... Part # 3-00-08534 and that is what the bag had on it and that was also the # on the other replacement we purchased originally to make sure it was not a problem with the guide being warped or worn. That and the burn pot gasket were the 1st things to be replaced at the start of this problem.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

keep-in warm said:


> No rush...this is the flame guide with the extra notches.
> 
> http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Harman-Pellet-Stove-Flame-Guide-p/3-00-03000.htm
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links I think I was already typing my last answer when you sent yours 
I got my book out to make sure as I thought I better double check the part #'s...  that is what I was referring to in my last post.
Went back and looked at the picture you referenced and I think it may be an illusion because if you look at the straight line below the compass and look at the guide in reference to that it actually looks like the left side is closer (raised) to the line... but again I think just optical illusion in the pic because of angle, taking it through the window , flames etc...
Looking through the flames now and using the straight line under the compass as a reference guide the flame guide is sitting evenly...
Hopefully when I shut it down & get those pics there will be a clue as to what can be done or what is causing this...
Thanks for all your help  Never know when we will hit upon the solution.


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## keep-in warm (Mar 24, 2015)

Try this thread  Not sure if Lousyweather is speaking to the FS or insert regarding the Flame Guard bracket, but he and Delta T are servicing dealers.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-pellet-stove-flame-guide.106061/#post-1387370


 part number 2-00-247435


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## frankie (Mar 24, 2015)

Harman Accentra2 I am in Monroe County. Are you close to me?


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

frankie said:


> Harman Accentra2 I am in Monroe County. Are you close to me?


About 3 hours away in Central PA.  Used to live in Mt Pocono 20 some yrs ago ;-)


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

keep-in warm said:


> Try this thread  Not sure if Lousyweather is speaking to the FS or insert regarding the Flame Guard bracket, but he and Delta T are servicing dealers.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/harman-pellet-stove-flame-guide.106061/#post-1387370
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info  I am in the process of researching the part # ... so far Nothing for Harman parts is matching it ... and my dealer still says no such part... I will be calling dealers out of my area tomorrow if I still come up empty on the internet searches . Thanks for the link,  frankie from that thread was the one who had given me the suggestion of putting the gasket rope behind the pot


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

I found the part # 2-00-247435 It is on the 6th page of this download for anyone interested or who may be in need of it
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...Cast.pdf/RK=0/RS=NiVdUoQbQPS8bWgIJQ7YUi.1nzI-

Now I shall call the dealer and insist it is a Harman part that he can get.


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## 3650 (Mar 24, 2015)

bad link....at least for me.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

frankie said:


> Harman Accentra2 I am in Monroe County. Are you close to me?



frankie what will this part # 2-00-247435 do that the rope gasket isn't doing ?
The rope gasket is certainly holding the flame guide tightly in place ... It just hasn't fixed the flames outside the burn pot issue ... but the flame guide is not moving at all.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 24, 2015)

3650 said:


> bad link....at least for me.



Sorry here is the download link maybe we will have better luck with this one 

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...Cast.pdf/RK=0/RS=NiVdUoQbQPS8bWgIJQ7YUi.1nzI-


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## frankie (Mar 25, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> frankie what will this part # 2-00-247435 do that the rope gasket isn't doing ?
> The rope gasket is certainly holding the flame guide tightly in place ... It just hasn't fixed the flames outside the burn pot issue ... but the flame guide is not moving at all.



Try calling the Cozy Barn in Wind Gap about that part as he is a Harman dealer. He may be abe to answer that questioin. They are the ones that told me about that part last year.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 25, 2015)

frankie said:


> Try calling the Cozy Barn in Wind Gap about that part as he is a Harman dealer. He may be abe to answer that questioin. They are the ones that told me about that part last year.



Thanks frankie
Spoke to cozy barn today
They said part # 2-00-247435 would not help in any other/additional way... same as if putting the rope behind the flame guide . Very nice dealer wish they were closer.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 25, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Thanks frankie
> Spoke to cozy barn today
> They said part # 2-00-247435 would not help in any other/additional way... same as if putting the rope behind the flame guide . Very nice dealer wish they were closer.



If anyone is looking for a GREAT HARMAN DEALER or TECH and lives in MONROE COUNTY PA.
I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND
COZY BARN in WIND GAP PA.
They went above and beyond in helping me today and they are THE BEST Harman people I have ever spoken to.
HIGHLY KNOWLEDGEABLE and HONEST. I can HIGHLY RECOMMEND them. AWESOME CUSTOMER SERVICE.
Thanks frankie for suggesting I contact them


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## frankie (Mar 25, 2015)

That is all that I can come up for you. Yes, the Barn is the best. Family owned and operated.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 25, 2015)

frankie said:


> That is all that I can come up for you. Yes, the Barn is the best. Family owned and operated.


Thats O.K. frankie your help has been immense! Thank you again
The gentleman from Cozy Barn explained in detail what is happening and I am going to follow his suggestion and see if it works.
It certainly makes sense as to what he explained and then how the fire starts. I will update as soon as I can. Once I shut the stove down and make changes ... Then run it and see if it fixes the problem .
He really was the most wonderful person.
I wish we had such a pleasant  dealer with such knowledge here. You are lucky to have them nearby.


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## frankie (Mar 25, 2015)

Will be looking forward to the update.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 25, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> The gentleman from Cozy Barn explained in detail what is happening and I am going to follow his suggestion and see if it works.



Geez, leave us hangin'.... Curious as to what he suggested.


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## 3650 (Mar 25, 2015)

Glad you finally found someone that seems to know about Harman Accentra's. Hope it's a fix. It would be nice to see one that actually works right.

My guess is that it will either involve a magnehelic gauge or drilling a hole in the auger tube and running additional air to it.


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## Bank (Mar 29, 2015)

I've been following this post since the beginning as I have been having the exact same issue. Yesterday I tore the thing apart and noticed a large amount of creosote, clinker, placque or whatever you want to call it built up around either side of the burn pot when I removed the two cast iron heat exchangers. I took a screw driver and started to scrape this junk out and all around the burnpot. Low and behold no more flames outside the burnpot.


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## 3650 (Mar 29, 2015)

It may come back if you dont find the reason creosote is building up. I have de-creosoted mine twice and it just comes back.

I think we just have lemons.

FWIW.....I have been burning mine this way for several years,albeit only to supplement my 3650 when single digits hit.


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## TonyVideo (Mar 29, 2015)

How soon once it goes away after a cleaning does it come back?


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## 3650 (Mar 29, 2015)

TonyVideo said:


> How soon once it goes away after a cleaning does it come back?




It gradually built back up over a few months.


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## tonyd (Mar 29, 2015)

If you are getting creosote. or smoke in the hopper, try this mod. Worked for me.


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## TonyVideo (Mar 29, 2015)

So you are not cleaning it until you see it again.


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## 3650 (Mar 29, 2015)

thats the mod I suggest the op search for n the beginning. I just let it burn. I can't see any harm as long as its not getting to the exhaust blower which it isn't. It contains itself around the burn pot. I do knock it down occasionally but I gave up on cleaning it


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

3650 said:


> It gradually built back up over a few months.


mine comes back within a few days...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

tonyd said:


> If you are getting creosote. or smoke in the hopper, try this mod. Worked for me.


Hi tonyd,
Do you suggest this for creosote anywhere ?
I just had a long conversation with a harman tech and they said I should not have that done it will not help this problem .... they said it is only a modification for smoke in the hopper ...
not saying they are right just asking if it has worked in this situation  ( flames outside the burn pot )


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

keep-in warm said:


> I would like to see pictures after the stove is turned off and cool.  Don't do anything other than open the door and take 5 or 6 angles, then we can dissect and discuss before cleaning and taking more pictures.
> 
> In some of your burn pictures the flame guide appears lifted on the right front.  Could be just the pictures.  You said you also have 3 flame guides.  can you post pics?



O.k. here are some pics... 
this 1 is cleaning warm pellets out after stove was turned down


back plates and compass before cleaning




where flames come out the bottom ( what I call creosote the black shiny stuff )



up close auger & burn pot with flame guide removed



will post more pics & continue the progression of what I tried and the results in next post ...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

continued from previous post
another pic of where flames come out the bottom




chipping off carbon build up



the following pics are of cleaned stove parts


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

Put the rope gasket in behind the burn pot several pieces so that the flame guide could not move at all


then turned the stove on ... EPIC FAILURE 


AFTER FLAMES OUTSIDE THE BURN POT THEN STARTED SMOKING LIKE CRAZY...




This obviously did not work ... 
after watching for about 25 minutes I was so disgusted I shut the stove down totally and went to the driving range to hit some golf balls while the stove cooled down again 

Anybody see anything that could be causing the flames outside the burn pot in this series of pics


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## TonyVideo (Mar 29, 2015)

In an unrelated item your feed rate is too high.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 29, 2015)

TonyVideo said:


> In an unrelated item your feed rate is too high.


Thanks it is only set on 2 ...
good thing is when it stops initial feeding and ignition the pellets burn back and make an ash line that stays behind the 1' from the edge . So I do not turn it any lower or it burns back in the throat of the pot I tried 1 and 1 1/2 ...did not like the fire so far back... These pics were taken within minutes of igniting


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## oldengineer (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm just finishing my 6th season with my Harman XXV. I follow my dealers recommendation and clean it every 7-10 days. Over the years I've improved my process and now have a good vac, headlamp, assortment of dollar store brushes, etc which I use. I always make it a point to clean the burnpot cover fastidiously and take extra care with the seating surfaces on the pot and case. However I always end up with a little creosote on the casing behind the cover and after 3 days or so the flame, especially on low speed, dropped down to the point that it was impinging on the top of the glass. When I replaced the cover I just laid it in place and let gravity seat it. Now the last time I cleaned it I changed my technique and applied some pressure while sliding the cover in place a few times and tapped it place. It's been 6 days since the last cleaning and the flame isn't hitting the glass yet. I'm betting that the area in back is going to be a lot cleaner. As dense as those covers are it looks like the flame pressure is enough to move them a little. I notice that the seating grooves on the cover are a little rough, maybe from the casting process?. I wonder if smoothing them would make them seat better and help keep the flame pattern cleaner.


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## Dougsey (Mar 30, 2015)

That shiny stuff under the pot is very strange and doesn't look right.  What the heck would cause that?


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## 3650 (Mar 30, 2015)

Gummy stove syndrome.  It was a big issue years ago.  There may still be some info in the archives, I don't know how long they keep them before they are purged.


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## gfreek (Mar 30, 2015)

Is the access cover on the burn pot leaking ??  If not it would seem to me the pot gasket is leaking ?  Also is that pellet fines, dust under the pot ??  Just some thoughts.....


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 31, 2015)

3650 said:


> Gummy stove syndrome.  It was a big issue years ago.  There may still be some info in the archives, I don't know how long they keep them before they are purged.


Yes they still have info on gummy stove syndrome. read many posts on gummy stove syndrome
which the cure for was the air kit with the clear tubing... ( the Harman tech does not think I have gummy stove syndrome though ... again not saying he is correct just relaying the diagnosis of it not being that )
Only question I have is this literally happens within 20 minutes of turning the stove on after cleaning it off... and it is only in the places where the fire outside the burn pot flames are...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 31, 2015)

gfreek said:


> Is the access cover on the burn pot leaking ??  If not it would seem to me the pot gasket is leaking ?  Also is that pellet fines, dust under the pot ??  Just some thoughts.....


Nope that is from the flames that burn under the burn pot


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 31, 2015)

gfreek said:


> Is the access cover on the burn pot leaking ??  If not it would seem to me the pot gasket is leaking ?  Also is that pellet fines, dust under the pot ??  Just some thoughts.....


Just had a new burn pot with access cover and gasket put in by Harman tech... that is ash that flies around from the fire and accumulates there... before we changed the burn pot actual pellets used to drop there and burn but since the new burn pot only flying ash accumulates there ... I've watched it very closely since replacing the burn pot to see what is happening... Thanks


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## Dougsey (Mar 31, 2015)

In reference to gummy stove, I'd be curious to see what your slide plate looks like.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Mar 31, 2015)

Dougsey said:


> In reference to gummy stove, I'd be curious to see what your slide plate looks like.


Sorry I did not get a pic of the slide plate as that was taken apart by Harman Tech  who said it was clean... and operating perfectly...I did see it and there was no build up of any kind on it. Just could not snap pics while he was working in there.
he also said auger looked fine...
These pics I took when we were shutting the stove down to try a new fix  ( no Harman tech here )... we also were not doing a good thorough cleaning as it had not been done that long before the experimenting ...


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## GeHmTS (Mar 31, 2015)

HARMAN ACCENTRA2 said:


> Tech said that the new burn pot made a tight fit/seal... watching him I did not notice any warping on the back wall ... but I was not doing the job myself...



At this point, I'm wondering if the wall, where the burn pot is fastened, has any cracks or other defects of any kind.  If it was me, I would cool down the stove, take off the burn pot, take a flash light and look at it the best I can in search of cracks, particularly where it is fastened against the burn pot.  Any signs of cracking would not be a good sign.


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## gfreek (Apr 1, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> At this point, I'm wondering if the wall, where the burn pot is fastened, has any cracks or other defects of any kind. If it was me, I would cool down the stove, take off the burn pot, take a flash light and look at it the best I can in search of cracks, particularly where it is fastened against the burn pot. Any signs of cracking would not be a good sign.



Somehow air has to be forcing the flames out of the pot.  Warped or cracked wall ??.. This would be my thought also. How else can the flame do that ?? I know that previously the tech checked it  and it was not warped...


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 3, 2015)

Dougsey said:


> In reference to gummy stove, I'd be curious to see what your slide plate looks like.


These are the pics I took while I was in there accessing something else today. Everything moved easily .


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## GeHmTS (Apr 3, 2015)

Is that rust or pellet fines on the picture in the right?  I bumped into one of your earlier post where you mentioned you found foam in the pellet.  Was this observed prior to noticing the flames underneath the burn pot?  I admit that I fishing for a cause, but really you should check the wall as suggested earlier.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 3, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> Is that rust or pellet fines on the picture in the right?  I bumped into one of your earlier post where you mentioned you found foam in the pellet.  Was this observed prior to noticing the flames underneath the burn pot?  I admit that I fishing for a cause, but really you should check the wall as suggested earlier.


Pellet fines...

Sorry forgot to post that I had checked it and there are no cracks and no warping .
Can't answer that as I do not know if they were in the prior bags or not... when I actually found the pellets with them in the stove was already doing the flames outside the burn pot...
Good catch/question  I had considered that myself when I cleaned the stove again after ( because of ) finding the foam pellets to make sure there was no residue on auger etc.
( after it was already cleaned for the season) but could not be sure 1 way or the other ... who knows for how long or how many bags had them in them ... 

Actually have Harman tech coming again on Monday to install that air thing with the clear hose that the newer Accentra's  come with now... I have been playing with some other fixes and will update after I see the results after a little longer time... and after the tech comes and installs the air modification. The one that 3650 and others have posted about.
Even though there is no gummy signs/ smoke in the hopper . I am not happy with the smoke that comes out after ignition since the new burn pot was installed. tech thinks that it should clear it up because I noticed that when I opened the hopper lid the smoke disappeared but when I closed it the smoke came streaming out again ... this only happens for about 10-15 minutes? upon ignition... then it is as clear as can be... Since wife does not like it ,the fact  it never smoked before and it should not cost an arm and a leg we shall fix it ( hopefully ). 
I appreciate your help , thoughts and suggestions I must say it is because of everyone's help that I have continued searching for the cause and solution to this problem...


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## corkman (Apr 7, 2015)

hi HarmanAccentra2..ive been following you thread for quiet a while..i recently picked up a 2004 accentra and it was having similar issues to yours..i had the flames on both sides of the pot as well as above the flame guide.i was getting constant white smoke exiting the stove and you could see the smoke inside the stove curling around the burn pot..there was also a lot of creosote forming around the pot.i removed the pot and there wasnt much there for a gasket..i wire wheeled the pot to almost new as well as the rear wall of the stove where it mounts.i installed new gasket and reinstalled the pot.i decided since i had access to the back of the stove to remove the auger and installed the crossover tube.fired stove up today and bingo.no flames outside the pot and only smoke on start up.i believe you were having your crossover tube done today so hope things will improve once thats done.Peace,Corkman


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## GeHmTS (Apr 7, 2015)

corkman said:


> i wire wheeled the pot to almost new as well as the rear wall of the stove where it mounts.i installed new gasket and reinstalled the pot.i decided since i had access to the back of the stove to remove the auger and installed the crossover tube.fired stove up today and bingo.no flames outside the pot and only smoke on start up.i believe you were having your crossover tube done today so hope things will improve once thats done.Peace,Corkman



Will you show us pics of the wire wheel you used?  Any pics of stove surface before and after wire wheel?


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## corkman (Apr 8, 2015)

Sorry guys I didn't take any pics of the pot or rear wall. Like I said there wasn't much there of the gasket and the back of the pot definitely had odd coloring which I have read looks like an air leak. This is what I used to remove the pot and clean the area


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 9, 2015)

Hi everyone

Here is the update I promised

Thoroughly cleaned and I mean cleaned the entire stove took off door , front panel etc. to get every nook and cranny absolutely free of any dust, creosote etc. got behind and under the air wash hose cleaned all hinges everything that could be cleaned was ... Then
Had the Feeder air crossover tube kit installed by Harman tech
that solved the smoke problem very nicely ... also got yet another flame guide ( this makes 4 ) just to make sure ...
But was still getting flames on the sides at start up for about 20 minutes...
turned stove off and started experimenting with the rope gasket different sizes and in different places...
finally came up with what is working like a charm for my stove...

Here is what I ended up doing
Instead of putting the rope gasket across the top of the flame guide ( which did not work well on my stove )
I took pictures after the horizontal failed and noticed that it had made black spots where I believe the gases or whatever was causing the flames originated it also made the 1st 2 twists on the auger black ... so
I put it vertically behind each side where the flame guide sits on the pot... I ended up using the 3/4" rope gasket
1/2 " initially worked but after it became compressed over time it did not do the job in the long run...
the 3/4 was harder to get in initially but was well worth it nothing moves the flame guide and no flames ... You will need to carefully push it down with a screwdriver to get it in tight... Just work it down slowly when you have both sides of gasket pushed in this flame guide will not move a cm...
I pushed on it with the screwdriver and it would not budge...
actually I was working on this before the tech came but still had the smoke issue ...The rope gasket had taken care of the flames without the air cross over tube kit ... so if you don't mind the smoke ( mine lasted about 20 minutes following start up) you don't need the crossover kit installed... this stopped the flames for over 1 week before the tech came to put the crossover air thing in...

I wanted to see if the air crossover would work without the rope gasket... much to my dismay the flames started so I replaced the rope gasket and no flames and no smoke for 3 days now... YES !!
Have had the stove off and on each day because it was warmer during the day so it would shut down and start up later in the evening... no smoke after initial start up any of the times...

Another thing I would like to mention since having the air crossover thing done the heat coming out is hotter ... I mean my wife used to be able to sit on the stove ( after coming in from the cold ) but now you would burn yourself if you tried to sit on it... you could touch it quickly without getting burnt but never sit on it again 
All settings are exactly like we had them before so that is not the difference ... I really think it is burning more efficiently and hotter 

I will post some pics to try to explain what I am talking about in this post to help others understand what worked for me... Sorry but I did not get pictures of it after cleaning was complete as I was too tired & excited to turn it back on and see if any of this helped...
                                                             Gasket placed vertically




This is the 3/4" that ended up working best             1/2 " & 3/4" Rope gasket







Note these were all same fire don't know why they came different colors in the pics...




	

		
			
		

		
	
 oh to have my Harman Accentra2 working properly ...PRICELESS !
Huge Thanks to all who helped and commented & Cozy Barn for explaining to me what was happening with the flames outside the burn pot I would not have kept experimenting once the horizontal gasket was a failure  ... this site is filled with awesome people & full of knowledge !
I am off to enjoy my new heat and beautiful flames... Good night !


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 9, 2015)

corkman said:


> hi HarmanAccentra2..ive been following you thread for quiet a while..i recently picked up a 2004 accentra and it was having similar issues to yours..i had the flames on both sides of the pot as well as above the flame guide.i was getting constant white smoke exiting the stove and you could see the smoke inside the stove curling around the burn pot..there was also a lot of creosote forming around the pot.i removed the pot and there wasnt much there for a gasket..i wire wheeled the pot to almost new as well as the rear wall of the stove where it mounts.i installed new gasket and reinstalled the pot.i decided since i had access to the back of the stove to remove the auger and installed the crossover tube.fired stove up today and bingo.no flames outside the pot and only smoke on start up.i believe you were having your crossover tube done today so hope things will improve once thats done.Peace,Corkman


Thanks corkman I just posted a detailed account of what happened


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## tonyd (Apr 9, 2015)

I also went to the 3/4 rope. When you close the door on the newer stoves, they close with resistance with the factory rope. When you use 1/2 " the door closes to easy. I think it seals much tighter with the 3/4.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 9, 2015)

tonyd said:


> I also went to the 3/4 rope. When you close the door on the newer stoves, they close with resistance with the factory rope. When you use 1/2 " the door closes to easy. I think it seals much tighter with the 3/4.


Hi tonyd
Yes I do like 3/4 for the door Thanks for pointing that out ! In this post I was referring to placing it behind the flame guide to keep it from moving the flames from going outside the burn pot which was my original problem on this thread


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## GeHmTS (Apr 9, 2015)

Nice job!  I like your perseverance in finding a solution to the problem.  Now others will surely be able to benefit from your work.


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## 3650 (Apr 14, 2015)

Well today something odd happened. As i have said the accentra is just my back up, but I've been burning it this shoulder season because I dont need the work horse for that. The secondary burn was happily flaming under and around the burnpot when I heard a.loud boom and the glass rattled in the stove door. I reckon those gases must have built up and ignited. This is the first time I've witnessed this since owning the stove. I dont think ill be leaving this burning unattended from now on.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Apr 14, 2015)

3650 said:


> Well today something odd happened. As i have said the accentra is just my back up, but I've been burning it this shoulder season because I dont need the work horse for that. The secondary burn was happily flaming under and around the burnpot when I heard a.loud boom and the glass rattled in the stove door. I reckon those gases must have built up and ignited. This is the first time I've witnessed this since owning the stove. I dont think ill be leaving this burning unattended from now on.


Hi 3650
Oh no
That was 1 of the things I was concerned about happening
Sorry to hear it happened to you .
I would highly suggest placing the vertical rope behind each side of the flame guide...
It did stop the flames from going outside the burn pot and it will only cost you a few $$ and a few minutes ...
In your case ( using the stove as a secondary ) I do not think you would have to remove the flame guide too often so it would not be that much of a pain to place the rope gasket and leave it ...

I also saw the air crossover kit on line for $34 if you like to tinker yourself... I watched the tech do it and other than taking the auger and slide plate out it was not a difficult " do it yourself " job... Normally I would have done it but the docs placed me on blood thinners recently so I have to be extra careful not to scratch or cut myself... otherwise I would have definitely been able to do the air crossover myself ... like I said though you can still stop the flames without the cross over kit and just the rope gasket... I think the local hardware store charged $1.99 a foot for the 3/4" ... and it is working like a charm...
Good luck and until you try the rope gasket or something I totally agree I would not be burning it unattended...
Just a thought ... if you have creosote all around the burn pot and do not want to clean it
I would buy the flat braided  rope gasket about 1" wide and tuck it in each side of the burn pot space ( where the creosote is and even lay a piece on the combustion intake cover ( the shelf under the pot )... this will act as insulation and not allow the creosote to catch on fire...
Don't totally block the air flow with a thicker gasket though... might be worth a try in your case !
I would be interested to know if you try the gasket and if it works for you... It is a relief to have a properly working Harman Accentra 2 and I am happy to report we are still getting a much hotter burn  ...


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## 3650 (Apr 14, 2015)

yep time for the crossover kit.


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## ian105 (Nov 2, 2015)

I've been following your thread since last year, I also had issues with secondary combustion occurring outside of the burn pot in the exact same fashion - whispy flames heading down towards the combustion blower from behind the pot/guide area. I tried a new flame guide last year to no avail.  Made cleaning  a huge headache with the crunchy creo buildup behind the flame guide and along side the burn pot.

Have not yet tried your gasket suggestion but will as soon as I fire it up for this year. Last year I ran 24/7 this year will just be evenings/weekends with propane being cheaper then pellets for now.  Ill post back with the results.

I am curious about your door gasket replacement choice, the original door gasket I believe is a 3/8 (.375) size.   Going to 3/4 sounds like a huge jump.  I would think 1/2 would lead to a very tight fit, if the 3/8 wasn't tight enough. I need to replace my door gasket as its getting crunchy at the bottom of the door. Looking for thoughts if I should just replace with 3/8, or maybe jump to 1/2.


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## HARMAN ACCENTRA2 (Nov 3, 2015)

ian105 said:


> I've been following your thread since last year, I also had issues with secondary combustion occurring outside of the burn pot in the exact same fashion - whispy flames heading down towards the combustion blower from behind the pot/guide area. I tried a new flame guide last year to no avail.  Made cleaning  a huge headache with the crunchy creo buildup behind the flame guide and along side the burn pot.
> 
> Have not yet tried your gasket suggestion but will as soon as I fire it up for this year. Last year I ran 24/7 this year will just be evenings/weekends with propane being cheaper then pellets for now.  Ill post back with the results.
> 
> I am curious about your door gasket replacement choice, the original door gasket I believe is a 3/8 (.375) size.   Going to 3/4 sounds like a huge jump.  I would think 1/2 would lead to a very tight fit, if the 3/8 wasn't tight enough. I need to replace my door gasket as its getting crunchy at the bottom of the door. Looking for thoughts if I should just replace with 3/8, or maybe jump to 1/2.



Hi ian105

You are correct the original gasket is 3/8".

My tech installed 1/2 "it is working fine so I am not going to change to 3/4 now.
Once it crushed down there is not as tight as a fit as  in the beginning so it is up to you what you want to go with.
I personally like a tight door seal and will try the 3/4" like tonyd suggested when this needs to be changed. 
Have a great evening and I wish you luck with your attempt at getting the flames behind the burn pot to stop...
We have been burning for a month now and no flames with this set up this year...
I am a happy camper... that creosote was horrible to clean not missing that ;-)


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