# Wind blows out pilot light



## robwil1952

I've got a 1 year old Jotul GF 100 gas stove with a direct vent and high-wind vent cap. The stove vents towards the ocean and I am up on a hill where we can get some strong swirling winds. When it does get windy, which is fairly often, the pilot light will blow out. You can see it fluttering around with a gust of wind, and it works perfectly when it's calm, so I'm positive it's the wind. I've also had a tech come out and check everything as far as operation. I've been looking at these wind/safety guards http://www.elitedeals.com/cpf-69454.html?productid=cpf-69454&channelid=FROOG but I am not convinced this will solve the problem. It is open on the top and bottom, and with our swirling winds, which don't necessarily come from the sides, may not work all that well. Does anyone know of something better? Like maybe a fully enclosed solution?
Thanks!


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## DAKSY

Hey, robwil1952...
Refer to page 9 of your owner's manual & make sure your air restrictors are in the correct position - 
based on your chimney height.
If they are, & adjusting them doesn't work, try the following:
Take the glass off your unit the next time this happens & 
see if you can tell where the wind that is agitating the pilot
is entering the firebox.
It may be possible to take a small piece of sheet metal, folded
into an "L" or a "V" shape to divert the airflow away from the pilot assembly.
Obviously, you can't block the flow COMPLETELY or your unit won't
get any combustion air, but you may be able to stop the pilot agitation...


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## robwil1952

Thanks! I'll check those things out. I probably should have mentioned that the stove vents horizontally. It's in a corner of the room and vents at a right angle out the side of the house and is only around 3 ft off the deck where it exits. The entire venting system is only about 3 ft long also. I have pulled the glass off before and it is very drafty inside the log and pilot light area.


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## R&D Guy

Rob,

I think DASKY's got this one wrapped up.  I'd look into the pilot shield idea.  I typically like the "C" shaped design matching the outside dimensions of the SIT pilot bracket - the open side obviously faces the burner.  If you can make the shield that extends 1/2 to 3/4" above the pilot.  The units I design (not Jotul sorry) are also sold in Australia and the AU standard requires a 80 MPH sustained wind (like you get) be directed at all sides of that high-wind cap and the pilot/burner have to light perfectly.  A pilot shield is high wind 101.  

You might want to ask your dealer for one, I'm sure they'd have one in stock in an area like that.  If not then try a few layers of tin foil and see what that does for you.


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## Highbeam

I'm thinking corrosion from that salt air coming into a cold stove.


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## robwil1952

It's been doing it from the beginning and it's only a year old. It's just that we didn't use it much last year after it was installed, as it was near the end of the winter. So it wasn't until this year, when it started doing it again, that we realized it was definitely a problem.
And when it's working, it gets plenty hot.


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## Fire Bug

Hi Rob,
 Try taking a piece of sheet metal and bending it into four corners,(squrare shaped), and put it surrounging the pilot. I beleive Dasky refers to the same set up in the above mentioned post. 
 As per usual, GOOD ADVICE DASKY!. This sheet metal will act as a pilot shield and protect it from much of the wind, but not all of it. It will also help with other problems.
 Its worth a try. Your technician should of tried it.
 If you ever encounter a problem with a "Blow Torch Noise" when the unit is ignited and burning, give me a shout. Jotul had to revamp their burner plates or tray to eliminate the problem. This was on the Firelight DV 600 Models, I don't know if it is a problem with their other models.
 I was told by a Gas Engineer, that if left uncorrected, it can damage the burners and the stove.
 I am sure Jotul has since corrected the problem on their current production runs, unlike some other companies.

Good Luck,
John


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## DAKSY

Firebug!
If you ever encounter a problem with a "Blow Torch Noise" when the unit is ignited and burning, give me a shout. Jotul had to revamp their burner plates or tray to eliminate the problem. This was on the Firelight DV 600 Models, I don't know if it is a problem with their other models.
 I was told by a Gas Engineer, that if left uncorrected, it can damage the burners and the stove.

That "Blow Torch" noise is generally only related LP units.
Because the LP is heavier than air, it can acculmulate UNDER the burner (puddling)
& not ignite from the pilot, until the LP has built up high enough for the flame to reach it. 
This will cause two ignition points. One is on the burner & the second is at the air shutter. 
I have seen it occur in Jotul, Heat n Glo, Regency & Hearthstone gas units.

I am sure Jotul has since corrected the problem on their current production runs, unlike some other companies.

The Jotul problems seemed to stem from the alignment of the burner orifice into the burner tube.
In my OWN experience, this doesn't happen at the factory, because Jotul ships ALL units NG ready...
The LP conversion is done at the dealer & if the tech isn't careful, he can change the
position of the burner orifice during the conversion, resulting in a misalignment.

More often than not, simply angling the first hole in the burner towards the pilot flame will eliminate the problem.
Many of the HnG units are easier to correct than others, because of the ceramic burners they use.
One or two extra holes can be drilled to direct the gas towards the pilot & the 
LP will ignite before it drops to the air shutter...

I realize you've endured a lotta crap from your HnG product & your dealer, but their products are 
(for the most part) pretty hi-quality units, & perform admirably in most installations.
The odds of you getting TWO lemons from them are astronomical in most cases,
but I'm sure that doesn't make you feel any better


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## robwil1952

Do you guys think that I should also go with that exterior cap wind shield, in addition to the pilot shield?


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## DAKSY

I would try to shield the pilot from agitation first.
Those "High-wind shields" are more like wind diffusers 
& may not work as well as advertised - ESPECIALLY with 
almost a straight horizontal configuration...
I've had MINIMAL success using them with "up & out" vents...
Save yourself the $100 (+/-)...


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## robwil1952

Would something other than sheetmetal work? Like an aluminum or tin can cut to size? Geez, this house was just recently built, and as lousy a job as they did cleaning up you'd think there'd be a stinkin' piece of sheet metal lying around!


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## robwil1952

Huh!?


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## DAKSY

robwil1952 said:
			
		

> Would something other than sheetmetal work? Like an aluminum or tin can cut to size? Geez, this house was just recently built, and as lousy a job as they did cleaning up you'd think there'd be a stinkin' piece of sheet metal lying around!



I don't see why you couldn't use something of that nature...
I'd probably try to use a can from tomato sauce or tomato soup 
or something else with tomatoes...
They tend to be high in acidity & the metal for the cans tends to be a bit beefier...
Cut it to size... flatten it out...paint it with hi-temp black to hide it.
You may hafta reposition it a time or two til you get it right, but it should work...
Good luck & report back once you figure it out!


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## Fire Bug

Hi Dasky,
 The "Blow Torch" noise was corrected by Jotuls Engineers fabricating a Revamped Burner Pan. The only difference from this revamped burner pan and the unit that came with the the Firelight 600 Stove was a "V" shaped piece of metal welded to the burner pan. 
 Jotul, diagnosed the problem,and corrected this with the Revamped Burner Pan. 
 The dealer technician at the time told me off a problem Jotul had with missaligned burners and ventury tubes. They had several incidents of propane gas build up and blowing out the front glass.
 The Consumer Product Safety Commission,(CPSC), has the Jotul Recall listed on their website along with all the details of property damage and personal injury from the gas build up and glass blowing out. 
 I beieve the Jotul Models where The Allagash and The Lillehammer Models. Jotul did notify the owners of these units.
 As far as Heat & Glow Products go, you are indeed entitled to your opinion and I will stick to mine. 
 The unit that was taken back because of the rubbed off paint was unit #5 not #2. 
 The dealer told me if he was me he would demand my money back not accept another unit. He used to stock Heat & Glow Products but gave them up because issues with the products and the company. He will get a Heat & Glow Product if you want one, but he will not stock them. His words via telephone call last Friday,"I only stock products that give me good customer feedback and less customer problems". His words, not mine.
 Sorry if I got off the subject of this post, but I am only responding to your post.

John

 He now only stocks Quadrafire which is, as you know, is also owned by Hon Industries.


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## R&D Guy

Rob,

Have you had any luck sourcing a pilot shield or making one of your own?  If so let us know how it's working.


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## robwil1952

Unfortunately, that didn't seem to work. I feel that I've got it well shielded. The pilot light is getting blown around by the draft. You can see it getting blown and it makes a "whooshing" sound. It may be getting too much air down there as the entire venting system is only a couple feet long. It doesn't even have to be that windy out. I've ordered the external wind guard, but I'm not getting my hopes up.


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## DAKSY

Hey, robwil1952...
You got a multi-meter & a couple of alligator clip jumpers?
Maybe you can turn the pilot up using the pilot adjustment 
screw on the front of the valve...
Take a reading on the t-couple first...
There's a soldered connection on the back of the SIT valve...
A blue wire is soldered to a round piece of steel in the center of a round plate...
Put one of the aligator clips on that rounded feature & the other end of the jumper
connected to your multimeter...
Run the other jumper from your meter to ground somewhere on the chassis...
Take a reading on the pilot - with the burner on...
Anything above 6mv is good, but if you can get it up to about 9 - 10 mv, it'll be stronger,
& may hold - EVEN with agitation...


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## Fire Bug

Hi Rob,
 Look in your owners manual to see if your stove has an Exhaust Vent Restrictor Adjustment.
 I am not sure if yours does, but the Firelight DV 600's do. This adjustment is a little plate under your top grate of your stove that you can slide either more closed,(more restricted) or more open,(less restricted) depending on how much draft is created by your venting system and set up. It is adjusted by loosening a small wing nut and sliding a small panel and than re-tightning this wing nut.
 In your owners manual it tells you how to adjust this restrictor if your stove has one. 
 It also gives adjustment setings for chimney height and draft control.

John


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## robwil1952

I do have a multimeter, but I don't have any clips....just the probes. I'll pick some up though. The flame does seem weak. I'm assuming the tech checked that out when he was here though. I wonder why he didn't suggest it, unless it's a safety issue or something.
I'll check the manual for the restrictor plate also.
Thanks!


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## R&D Guy

Rob,

Looking at page 9 and 30 of the manual - it looks like there is a small secondary air gap around the burner and a cut out around the pilot.  Looks like the pilot hood stands just above this opening.  If this is the case then all the air in the system has to squeeze through this spot like a nozzle which puts the pilot flame in a really turbulent area.  

Manual

I wouldn't bother adjusting the restrictor since after it was suggested the first time, you informed us that you have 3' of horizontal with no vertical rise.   It's a favorite dead horse people like to beat, but I've never heard of restricting a stove at minimum vertical rise and it will more than likely cause your stove to not work at all.

Again, looking at the design of your stove - especially the area around the pilot, the symptoms you conveyed (burns fine on calm day, goes out with a strong gust) it sounds like a pilot shield would be helpful, but instead of having you make one, PM me your address if you'd like and I'll mail you one that will likely fit on your unit.


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## Fire Bug

Hey Rob,
 If you are still having problems with your stove and can't track down a fix for it, I should have Jotuls Gas Engineers phone number in my paper work I can dig it out and you can give them a shout.
 They were EXTREMELY helpful in finding the solution to my Jotul Firelight when the dealer technicain could not come up with the fix.
 Your stove should still be covered under warranty,(five years), so that is not a problem. I don't think it would be a problem even if it was out of warranty.
 They seem to be very decent people from a very decent manufacturer.
 If you need the number let me know and I will find it for you.

John


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## stoveguy13

there is a gasket between the pilot assy. and the floor of the stove when it was converted they may have damaged it and you cloud be suck air up through he bottom of the stove two screws hold the pilot down pull it up and see if it is in place


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## robwil1952

I appreciate all of the suggestions. At the moment, though, I am trying R&D;Guy's pilot light shield that he so kindly sent me. Today is a little breezy and so far the flame has held. It's not blowing around like it previously did. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks!


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## Fire Bug

Hi Rob,
 Hope this pilot shield does the trick! 
 I don't see why the manufactures don't automaticaly install these shields at the factory, just to be on the safe side. What could it hurt?
 I can't beleive that this little piece of tin is going to make that big a dent in their profit margin.
 If needed it is there, if not, it is still there!
 Your unit is still under the five year warranty, correct?? I would imagine if Jotul/Jotul Dealer were to find out you are trying to correct this problem on your own and you are not a experienced technician, this could be probable cause for Jotul/Dealer to void the remainder of your manufacturers warranty. Enna or No?
 Be Careful!
 Good Luck,
John


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## R&D Guy

Well I'm glad it's holding to date and am happy to help even with competitor models.  I guess we'll have to wait for the next big windstorm to know for sure, but I'm quite confident it's the fix you needed.


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## robwil1952

Well, since the last update it has actually gone out once, but my parents didn't tell me until the next day so I couldn't really evaluate what was happening at the time. The weather has been mild lately, so I haven't had another chance to watch it. But I can tell you that it is keeping the flame much stronger than before. I will keep everyone posted., there's just nothing happening right now.


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## Fire Bug

If it went out once, it will go out again, "Thats A Given"! Something is definitely wrong and you haven't got it right yet!
 If it is under warranty, why aren't you contacting Jotul? Is there more to this story than is being told?
 Sounds like its more than the pilot light flickering in the wind, it sounds like your "piss-n in the wind"!
 Enna or No?

John


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## DAKSY

Preused ufO brOKer said:
			
		

> robwil1952 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a multimeter, but I don't have any clips....just the probes. I'll pick some up though. The flame does seem weak. I'm assuming the tech checked that out when he was here though. I wonder why he didn't suggest it, unless it's a safety issue or something.
> I'll check the manual for the restrictor plate also.
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> new thought= maybe pilot hole is slightly clogged & if adjustment screw for pilot exists u can screw/unscrew pilot flame intensity.
Click to expand...


Jotul stoves are equipped with NovaSIT valve & there IS a brass pilot adjustment screw located on the front of the valve, near the top, between the regulator & the terminal block.
Turn the screw counterclockwise to increase the pilot intensity.
Normally, a 1" long pilot flame is standard, but I'd put a multitester - set to millivolts (mv) - on the TP & TH/TP terminals & set the pilot to around 600 mv...
Too much higher than that & you can "kill" the thermopile...


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## robwil1952

Fire Bug said:
			
		

> If it went out once, it will go out again, "Thats A Given"! Something is definitely wrong and you haven't got it right yet!
> If it is under warranty, why aren't you contacting Jotul? Is there more to this story than is being told?
> Sounds like its more than the pilot light flickering in the wind, it sounds like your "piss-n in the wind"!
> Enna or No?
> 
> John



Not sure what that is supposed to mean.  Are you implying I'm not telling the truth or something? Going to the manufacturer is still an option. I came here to see if this was a common problem and got a few suggestions, which I am trying one at a time.


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## R&D Guy

robwil1952 said:
			
		

> Not sure what that is supposed to mean.  Are you implying I'm not telling the truth or something? Going to the manufacturer is still an option. I came here to see if this was a common problem and got a few suggestions, which I am trying one at a time.



Don't mind him, I tried to help him with one of his many stove issues and he told me that I should go home and beat my wife and kick my dog.   hh:   LMAO!!  There's one in every crowd.

Well I'm sorry to hear the shield hasn't been the silver bullet.  Try DASKY's suggestion of turning the pilot up.


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## stoveguy13

how is it vented


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## Fire Bug

robwil1952 said:
			
		

> Fire Bug said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it went out once, it will go out again, "Thats A Given"! Something is definitely wrong and you haven't got it right yet!
> If it is under warranty, why aren't you contacting Jotul? Is there more to this story than is being told?
> Sounds like its more than the pilot light flickering in the wind, it sounds like your "piss-n in the wind"!
> Enna or No?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what that is supposed to mean.  Are you implying I'm not telling the truth or something? Going to the manufacturer is still an option. I came here to see if this was a common problem and got a few suggestions, which I am trying one at a time.
Click to expand...


Hey Rob,
 You take it what ever you want it to mean, but this thread is already on page two,(including my suggestion which was shot down in flames), and if I was in your position, instead of trying to futts with this and try that, and try this,  I definitely think by now I would have contacted Jotul for a definite fix.
 Chances are, the way you are headed, you will probably have more problems with your stove than you originaly had by trying two pages of possible solutions that aren't the fix.
 Lets face it you are not a qualified technician and the more you play with this and that the more your going to Jazz it up!
 By not going to the manufacture while the stove is under warranty,(no cost to you), this only leads me to believe that their is something more wrong with this stove,(only you could know that and a technician if he comes out to service it).
 Keep playing with it and not knowing what the heck your doing, and their surely will be.
 Your time, your stove, your safety, do as you please, I don't have a nickel invested in time or cost of your stove.
 Like I said in my last post, "your pis-in in the wind", you are simply out of your league on this one. Leave it to the Pros! 
 Maybe you should take the whole stove appart and try all new parts, that MAY fix it.
 It is under warranty!! That's why they offer warranties. Take the option of going to the manufacturer. It will save you lots of time, effort, money, and more than likely, safety for you and your parents or simply keep futzing away at it and I am sure it will sooner or later be more screwed up than it is now and Jotul will deny warranty service because of this, if they don't already.
 Do as you please, it your stove!
 Enna or No,
Good Luck!


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## robwil1952

I put up the exterior shield a few days ago. Previously, before the pilot shield, the flame would waver with a good breeze. The pilot shield solved that, but evidently a good wind could still blow the pilot out. Although it only happened once and I am not sure of the circumstances, as I wasn't notified until the next day. But last night and today were the first big tests. We finally got a nice storm, and we're getting 25-30 MPH sustained winds, with gusts up to 50, directly out of the S to SW, which has been the biggest problem. The flame is not wavering at all....it's perfect. I feel pretty confident that the 2 shields combined have solved the problem. I also believe the problem was the result of the direction the vent cap was facing, my un-optimal location high on the hill taking the full brunt of the wind, and the shortness of the venting system which wasn't able to dissipate enough of the air pressure on breezy/windy days. Anyway, I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement from everyone, and special thanks to 'R&D;Guy' for his perfectly designed pilot shield.  :cheese: I will post updates occasionally, as required. Especially once we get the 'big one'.


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## DAKSY

Way to go Rob!
Kudos to R&D;Guy, as well...
AND I'd like to point out that that combined efforts of the crew here paid off
& saved a member the cost of a service call!
Well done!


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## R&D Guy

DAKSY said:
			
		

> Way to go Rob!
> Kudos to R&D;Guy, as well...
> AND I'd like to point out that that combined efforts of the crew here paid off
> & saved a member the cost of a service call!
> Well done!



Agreed DAKSY!  Lets hope the 1 outage was a fluke, but I think we've helped yet another member here.

On another note hearing our Oregon Coast friend explain his situation - high up on a hill, overlooking the Pacific Ocean, new construction, with extended family quarters, wind off the deck facing said ocean - and I can say with confidence that I didn't help him because I felt sorry for him.......   LOL!  I'd be OK having those kind of issues.


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## robwil1952

LOL! Well, not a bad view I guess. I'm sure there are lots better, but I'll take it I guess. I only wished it looked like that more often!
BTW, the Jotul stove is directly below this floor in the same corner as the photo. It vents out to the west on the lower deck.


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## robwil1952

Here's the little stove you helped......and a close-up of the beautiful, strong little pilot flame  :cheese:


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## robwil1952

and my little contribution............


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## robwil1952

I was going to take a picture of the nice warm people you helped too (my Mom and Dad), but my Mom nixed that idea   :lol:


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## R&D Guy

Rob,

My gosh, I live in a house on a hill too and enjoy watching storms roll in from afar, but the view of the ocean is second to none.


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## robwil1952

Here's your Gizmo......


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