# IN THIS EXTREME COLD: what are you going to do about you’re #1 heat loss(windows)



## awoodman (Jan 17, 2009)

This should also be a post (why do we burn so much wood).
Extreme tep. drops call for extreme measures. My insulated window blinds arent enough, considering 2'' thick styrofoame panels
to block off openings.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 17, 2009)

In the extreme cold I just sit by the stove and enjoy the fruits of my labor. 

We do close off a room and keep the curtains shut. The curtains on the south stay open only if the sun is shinning. That's about all we do here.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jan 17, 2009)

I covered my 90 yo windows with bubble wrap.   It still lets light in.

Matt


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## peakbagger (Jan 17, 2009)

Its hard to beat double cellular shade with window tracks, but if the window is on the west or North side, a piece of isoboard cut tight to the opening behind the shade works pretty well


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## awoodman (Jan 17, 2009)

I have the single cell shades but without any track down the sides. That might be a realy good idea.
But when Lowes stoped stocking the inexpensive ones they sold I went with stupid miniblinds on some of the other rooms.


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## Steve Z (Jan 17, 2009)

My house is 200+yrs old and has allot of the original windows. While they have storm windows on the outside, (some on the north side year round) I still use the plastic shrink wrap stuff on the inside.  It actually works quite well as long as you make sure the two sided tape they provide is still holding all the way round.


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## snowtime (Jan 17, 2009)

We have triple pane. Even the 4 -4'by6'. Being that we have great views and no neighbors we never close the shades. So I can safely say triple pane is the way to go.


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## hankjrfan (Jan 17, 2009)

if it's just cold (20+) we're fine without doing anything.   but if we get down into the bone chilling single digits or worse, negative numbers like last week, we put the thermal curtains up and start closing off non essential parts of the house.


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## Todd (Jan 17, 2009)

New Window World double pane windows installed this year. It makes a difference. I use to put up that palstic stuff, no need now.


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## Dix (Jan 18, 2009)

I replaced some 32 YO Andersons this year. Their time had come  :kiss: 

I replaced with HD type windows...what a differance !! I'm replacing the rest of the old windows this year.


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## Jimxj2000 (Jan 18, 2009)

Not an simple fix but if you are ever building new you could try an old idea - Indian shutters.  Our house came with them for the first floor windows.  At first they seemed to just add character to the house.  Later we found they are great in winter for warmth and nice in the summer for privacy.  If I ever had to build new I would include something similar.  

We have best of the early 1980's single pane windows, with very leaky aluminum storm windows.  Closing the shutters adds at least 5F to the room temperature.   They are also great for privacy, better than screens for blocking sun light - great for the home theater experience, and good at stopping the stray arrow if needed. 

I did look into the history of "Indian Shutters".  I couldn't tell if they were build for protection or just for warmth.

This is the first picture I have attached - I hope it worked.


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## bsimon (Jan 18, 2009)

JimJ- your post piqued my interest.  Here's an explanation:

http://www.maple-grove.com/interior_raised.htm

One of which is exactly what you're using them for - heat retention.  Sometimes the old tech is good tech.


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## gibson (Jan 18, 2009)

Every year, when winter comes, I shut my windows.  What a difference!


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## awoodman (Jan 18, 2009)

> JimJ- your post piqued my interest.  Here’s an explanation:
> 
> http://www.maple-grove.com/interior_raised.htm
> 
> One of which is exactly what you’re using them for - heat retention.  Sometimes the old tech is good tech.




FOAM CORE BI-FOLD WOOD FACED SHUTTERS :lol:


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## raybonz (Jan 18, 2009)

I have 18 double hung Andersen 400 series approx. overall dimensions of 3'x5' and I just keep em closed and latched  Even the best windows are a lousy as insulators..

Ray


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## iceman (Jan 18, 2009)

i have new windows, double pane ... friend of mine told me he did the window kits and it has made a huge diff i did my upstairs where it is furthest from my stove and yes it does make a diff.. next i will def do my entire house as i have huge and many windows ... so i suggest the same to everyone else... wait till feb but the window kits on clearance and buy enough for 2 yrs


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## DBoon (Jan 18, 2009)

A few years ago I lived in a condominium with very old and cold metal frame windows.  There was a good recess to accomodate a thick insulating panel.  I bought some 1" thick foam insulation (R value = 6), cut it to size, build a wood frame on one side using some old 2-1/2" wide trim and fastened the frame to the foam board using screws into wood frame with a fender washer to hold the foam on.  Then, I covered them with some off-price upholstery fabric I got at a fabric store.  They looked good, and made a huge difference in heating and also made it possible to sit near a window at night without feeling too cold.  The wife liked them, for sure.  

For windows that were more than the 2' width of the foam board, I would orient the foam board horizontally (hence the need for a wood frame).  I even built some of these to slip into the non-sliding section of a sliding glass door.  Again, made a huge difference in comfort.  

Downsides is that there is definitely some smoke/gas issues with these in the event of a fire.  Also, it does take time in the evening to put them in and then take them out in the morning.  If the window gets sun during the day, you wouldn't want to leave them in.


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## Stevebass4 (Jan 19, 2009)

try these 

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/energy/conservation/basics_1/window_cover.htm


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## trailblaster (Jan 19, 2009)

We cover the windy side windows in our 9yr old house with those 3M window sheets.  The windows still radiate a little cold when we had the -22 days earlier this week.


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## vgrund (Jan 19, 2009)

Cellular blinds: single and triple depending on the window.  They are profoundly effective.  The only downside is condensation on the window is sometimes a problem.


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2009)

Moved to green room. There are several thread here on reducing window heat loss.


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## kenny chaos (Jan 19, 2009)

Our walls are 18" thick and I have thought of placing a bale of straw on the windowsill of each.


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## burnham (Jan 19, 2009)

The reason I bought my Mansfield was the 22 lousy old aluminum framed windows in my house, and the four sky lights.  When it gets really cold, I bring in extra wood.  Some day, when I have an extra $7-8k floating around in the account I'll......no I won't, nevermind.


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## precaud (Jan 20, 2009)

In winter, I have 2" styrofoam panels in almost every window of the house. The south ones come off while the sun is up, the west ones come off from about noon till sundown, and east ones stay on all the time. Makes a HUGE difference.


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## ericjeeper (Jan 20, 2009)

Ok here we go again.
 Triple with Krypton will give you an R-10 Triple with Argon will give you an R-7
  I am strongly against using raw foam board of any sort on the interior of my home.. For several reasons..
 Foremost it is cheesy looking.Secondly it is flammable as all get out.Nasty deadly toxic fumes will come from
it in the presence of a house fire..Polyvinyl chloride......... Not the way I want to lose anyone in my household.
 For all the answers to your window questions go to nfrc.org
This is the governments page not any particular brand.
 I have 3 different brands of windows in my home. some with double pane lo-e and argon, some with triple with argon.Some with triple with krypton.
 The triple with krypton are generally 6-7 degrees warmer on the interior glass surface taken at night with my infrared temp gun.
the temps are usually about 8 degrees less than room temp.
 High quality windows are not a gimmick.. They are an investment into saving fuel, and increasing the value in your home.


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## awoodman (Jan 20, 2009)

> ericjeeper Posted: 20 January 2009 08:24 AM Fire Honor Society
> 
> I am strongly against using raw foam board of any sort on the interior of my home.. For several reasons..
> Foremost it is cheesy looking.Secondly it is flammable as all get out.Nasty deadly toxic fumes will come from
> it in the presence of a house fire..Polyvinyl chloride......... Not the way I want to lose anyone in my household.



As far as house fire goes the furniture and carpet got to be bad also.
The walls in my house are 8'' thick foam with sheet rock over it. And the 30X30 room add-on is 10'' thick foam with chicken wire and 1'' of stucco.
If and when the power goes out (or state of emergency)I wouldn't worry to much about what things look like I'd be wanting to conserve wood as much as possible and no glass will ever equal the R's of a wall.

So I was wondering when I posted this what people up north like Iowa ( I read was -29 with wind chills 40 something below) were doing besides running the heck out of their wood supply.


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## precaud (Jan 20, 2009)

jeeper: please send me a check so I can afford something less cheesy looking but equally effective as the foam board insulators. Oh... after I close the drapes you have no idea they're even there.


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## kenny chaos (Jan 20, 2009)

precaud said:
			
		

> jeeper: please send me a check so I can afford something less cheesy looking but equally effective as the foam board insulators. Oh... after I close the drapes you have no idea they're even there.




Don't let 'em bother you.
Like I said, my window sills are 18" deep and I was considering setting a bale of straw in each window.
The only problem there is that the chickens would jump up on them and scratch them apart so I'd have another mess in the house. :lol:


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## precaud (Jan 20, 2009)

Oh, it's no bother... it's natural for someone who spends top bucks solving a problem to get preachy about it. I've done the same thing.

18" window sills - mine are about the same.  Must mean you have massive masonry walls, yes?


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## kenny chaos (Jan 20, 2009)

precaud said:
			
		

> 18" window sills - mine are about the same.  Must mean you have massive masonry walls, yes?




Yeah.  Great insulating value too. :lol:


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## jebatty (Jan 21, 2009)

We solved our window problem beginning in 1992 when we started replacement with effective quad pane windows: glass on out and in, and two plastic films panes between the glass, gas filled. These windows are warm to the touch inside even when it is -40F outside and howling winds. We have about 27' of glass facing out on the lake side of our house (plus lots of windows on the other three sides), no drafts, no frost, no condensation, no matter what the weather outside. Two windows over the kitchen sink, hot, steamy water in the sink, no condensation on the windows. Also no shades or window coverings -- let their be light and warmth.


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## awoodman (Jan 21, 2009)

Kenny like to see some pics. of you're straw bale house. Did you do the post and beam methood on a slab foundation?


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## kenny chaos (Jan 21, 2009)

awoodman said:
			
		

> Kenny like to see some pics. of you're straw bale house. Did you do the post and beam methood on a slab foundation?




No straw house here brother.


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## awoodman (Jan 22, 2009)

Must have misinterpreted something. hh:


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## kenny chaos (Jan 27, 2009)

Well since this thread started, I've been beating the "I don't like curtains" wife and yesterday she finally brought home ten yards of insul-bright.  It's polyester fibers needlepunched through mylar.  Today she'll find some material she likes and this weekend, she sews and I'll hang.  She paid $5.99/yard for the insul-bright and knowing we'll need more, I found a store on-line where I can get more at $4.25/yard.
The windows measure 29"x56" but these are set in a stone wall which angles in for more light admittance.  If I measure this additional wall thickness which is uninsulated, each window comes out to about 29.5 sq.ft. of surface area.  Multiply by the thirteen windows set this way and we're getting close to 400 sq. ft.! 
I'm excited about how much this may help.
Thanks for the inspiration everyone.
Ken


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## Wet1 (Jan 27, 2009)

Kenny,

How thick is this "insul-bright"?  Any idea on R value?



I love the idea of sticking foam in the windows, but I'd never hear the end of it if I did this...


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## kenny chaos (Jan 27, 2009)

Wet1 said:
			
		

> Kenny,
> 
> How thick is this "insul-bright"?  Any idea on R value?
> I love the idea of sticking foam in the windows, but I'd never hear the end of it if I did this...





It doesn't mention an R-value and is only about an 1/8" thick.
It came with a free oven mitt pattern if that means anything.
I can't tear it either.
It's when I threatened the foam in the windows that she started admiring various curtains. %-P


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## karri0n (Jan 27, 2009)

My idea is a hybrid of the foam board and clear plastic to keep the light. Cut the foam to fit tight, cut a few holes through the foam, smaller than windows but nice looking, paint the foam to match/complement the walls/curtains, and use shrink wrap or even cheaper 3-6 mil plastic sheeting. The wife told me previously that if she's warm, she won't even care what it looks like, but I still would prefer this to the trashy look of pink/blue foam board.


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## SE Iowa (Jan 29, 2009)

Jebatty
I do not exactly understand your install.  Did you use 2 sets of windows for each opening? Did you place one window on the outside of the house and one window on the inside of the house or isthis some sort of custom set-up?


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## DBoon (Feb 1, 2009)

I had no idea there would be so much hatred about foam inserts in windows....pretty funny.  You can dress them up and they will look fine.  I wouldn't want to look at pink foamboard either.  They will save you serious amounts of money if made right (i.e. fit tight).  In the winter, for 14 hours a day, they will take an R-1 or R-2 drafty old window to an R-10 non-draft old window.  I could do the math on payback, etc., but I won't bother.   I do know that when I finally did have the $7000 to upgrade to new windows, it provided the same comfort level without the work of putting the panels in every evening and taking them out every morning, and finding a place to store them when they were out.  But I probably only paid $150 for the panels whereas the windows cost me $7000.  

Yes, there are smoke hazards if your house is burning.  If I had no smoke alarms in my house, or had kids that slept on the opposite side of a 5000 square foot McMansion, I'd be worried about it.  But frankly, if your house is burning so badly that already the window coverings are on fire, it may already be too late for you to make that great escape anyways.


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## kenny chaos (Feb 1, 2009)

Don't need to worry about smoke from a fire in my house, we have plenty of draft! :lol:


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## kenny chaos (Feb 5, 2009)

Well we got held up.  Seems the stitcher needed to go in for a tune-up.
Maybe this weekend.  Maybe not, it's hitting 50 degrees!!

Ponder with Kenny-  It's cool to put a wood stove in a yurt but putting a piece of foam board in a window is dangerous. :question:


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## steam man (Feb 5, 2009)

I've been looking at these window coverings. I think they cost more than my windows.

http://www.windowquilt.com/

Mike


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## RedRanger (Feb 6, 2009)

Not too many days here with frost.  So, my solution is to just stay under the covers till the sun gets around to heating the place up somewhat.   If not, then when I feel like it,, downstairs and light up the insert..

I know, I know=lazy,lazy.    But I don`t care. :coolcheese:


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## Dix (Feb 6, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> Well we got held up.  Seems the stitcher needed to go in for a tune-up.
> Maybe this weekend.  Maybe not, it's hitting 50 degrees!!
> 
> Ponder with Kenny-  It's cool to put a wood stove in a yurt but putting a piece of foam board in a window is dangerous. :question:



That's a rhetorical question, correct? 

 ;-) 

Foam on windows is yucky, yucky, yucky, yucky  Especially the ones that peeps can see  :roll: 

You guys just don't get it ...craptastic will always look craptastic.

Oy yi yi ..makes you all clean stalls ...now there's some heat  %-P


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## kenny chaos (Feb 6, 2009)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

> [
> You guys just don't get it ...craptastic will always look craptastic.




If that's the best a man can do, is he less of a man?


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## Dix (Feb 6, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



NO.

And not less of a woman.

I'm just saying that sometimes ya gotta shell out the dough, to get it done right.

Trust me, I have experience in this  :-S


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## Dix (Feb 7, 2009)

CZARCAR said:
			
		

> Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They both say "feed me"   

And I am not a "fashionista", that's for sure.


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