# RIP LED #1



## begreen (Mar 23, 2017)

8 months ago I replaced a 30w circuline fluorescent lamp with a pendant fixture and a 9.5w FEIT led bulb. The circuline fixture was 21 yrs old. Lamps lasted about 5 yrs. with regular use. The LED bulb just died after 8 months of the same duty. This was the first LED bulb I've installed here and unfortunately I didn't save the receipt, so it's a loss. I'm disappointed if this is going to be the typical lifespan. Now replaced with a Philips 60w with a claimed 22yr. lifespan @3hrs a day/7days a week. We'll see.


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## jebatty (Mar 23, 2017)

We switched most of our CFL's and remaining incandescent bulbs to LED in 2013 prior to our decision to install the solar PV. Purpose, along with other conservation measures, was to reduce household kWh usage as much as we reasonably colud before moving to solar. 

Two of the more than 50 bulbs replaced failed nearly right away (back in 2013). Of the others, one failed about a month ago. The rest continue to shine brightly as intended. Reminds me of the early CFL's and some of the later ones that failed prematurely while others lasted for years and continued to work well when we switched to LED. Also reminded of incandescent bulbs that quickly burned out.

The one that failed a month ago was an A19 in a ceiling can light fixture, not exactly a recommended thing to do because of trapped heat. We have others in can light fixtures and have experienced no problems. So far the LED bulbs have performed more reliably than other bulbs, and they are brighter, cooler operating, and save lots of electricity. At current prices of less than $2/bulb, LEDs win on all counts in my opinion.


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## cableman (Mar 23, 2017)

They pushed compact cfl's saying those last x amount of times longer, i hated them! Double the price, slow to turn bright and they didnt last much longer.
Now these led's, i like them better then cfl's and if they save me electric im happy with that. So far i havnt had one fail since ive been in this house in 1-1/2 years.
Now they make those energy efficient incandescent bulbs too.
Ive prolly spent much more in bulbs over the last few years switching over then they can ever save me!


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## jebatty (Mar 23, 2017)

cableman said:


> Ive prolly spent much more in bulbs over the last few years switching over then they can ever save me!


 Me too. And my wife and I really like the light, instant on, works in the cold of winter, and does use less electricity, about 1/2 of that used by the CFLs. And the cost per bulb is less than that greasy triple patty, cheese and bacon loaded, heart attack in a gmo floured pasty bun available at numerous joints in the area.


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## Chas0218 (Mar 23, 2017)

When buying LED lights you get what you pay for, make sure the actual LEDs is either a CREE or epistar. Those are the 2 best LED you can buy and have been in the market since LEDs started to take off . If the package doesnt boast about having cree or epistar don't buy with expectations of it lasting very long.  I'm pretty sure Phillips uses cree but not sure of many other brands.  Some advertise CREE LEDs but are not the real thing but same technology.  Do your research and you'll see there is a big difference between quality.  Also CREE is one of the only USA manufactures of LEDs.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 23, 2017)

Chas0218 said:


> When buying LED lights you get what you pay for, make sure the actual LEDs is either a CREE or epistar. Those are the 2 best LED you can buy and have been in the market since LEDs started to take off . If the package doesnt boast about having cree or epistar don't buy with expectations of it lasting very long.  I'm pretty sure Phillips uses cree but not sure of many other brands.  Some advertise CREE LEDs but are not the real thing but same technology.  Do your research and you'll see there is a big difference between quality.  Also CREE is one of the only USA manufactures of LEDs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


The current driver is just as important.  Those can be made in many places and it could be or not be name brand even if the emitter is.  

If I had a failure, I'd just take it back to Lowes or HD and ask for a replacement.  See what they say.  I spend a ton of money in those places and they can be quite good about keeping you happy if you are a good customer.


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## Chas0218 (Mar 23, 2017)

sportbikerider78 said:


> The current driver is just as important.  Those can be made in many places and it could be or not be name brand even if the emitter is.
> 
> If I had a failure, I'd just take it back to Lowes or HD and ask for a replacement.  See what they say.  I spend a ton of money in those places and they can be quite good about keeping you happy if you are a good customer.


If it was bought at HD or Lowes and you used a credit card they can do a reverse look up.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2017)

Just replaced an led- 2 years Philips it replaced a fl that lasted 1 year, that replaced an incandescent that was in  for more than 5 years.  And that was a 79 cent bulb. so tell me how I am saving money.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

As with all new technology, early adopters end up as part of the Beta testing group. Over time the good manufacturers improve, the bad ones usually go out of business.  I knew this when I replaced all the CFLs with LEDs as soon as the utility subsidy made them cheap, expected to lose a few.

This cycle was astonished short for LED bulbs. You can directly thank government regulation for making this happen. 

Personally, I think LED bulbs are wonderful. We'll look back at incandescents in the same way we look at radios with tubes, and more recently, TV's with tubes.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 23, 2017)

You can also thank govt regulation for the billions of FCL's that are hitting the landfills...filled with mercury.  They made them cheap with subsidy.  Almost gave them out for free in some states.

What is the environmental impact of manufacturing all of those and then people tossing them because they suck compared to LED's?  I have about 50 of them in a box.  I'm more environmentally conscious than most...and will take them to a recycling center.
How much sooner would LED technology developed if the gap in the market between filament style and LED had been left wide open and not temporarily filled with the FCL? 
When one technology is funded above all else, it hurts other competing technologies. 

I built a home LED bulb myself for <$5 10 years ago with 300lumen output. The LEDs got better and cheaper...so did the drivers.  Lots of engineers working very hard across industries.

Subsidy, i'm sure played a role in developing a cheaper home bulb...but that is part of the industry, not the entire industry.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 23, 2017)

I had a couple that failed right after one another in a garage door opener.  They were Cree and were quite expensive.  Current one seems to be holding.  Also had one fail in a bathroom.  Same Cree.  Early adopters pay, unless they can get others to pay.  Can't even brag anymore, since more widespread.  Did they outlaw cfl's yet?

I used to brag about my led Christmas lights, since that was another thing that wasn't cost effective.  They've been pretty good.

How about those traffic lights with the multiple leds where you can see x% inoperable?


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## jatoxico (Mar 23, 2017)

Got these FEIT's in Feb of 2015 for $5/bulb. 20 yrs to go.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

sportbikerider78 said:


> You can also thank govt regulation for the billions of FCL's that are hitting the landfills...filled with mercury.  They made them cheap with subsidy.  Almost gave them out for free in some states.
> 
> What is the environmental impact of manufacturing all of those and then people tossing them because they suck compared to LED's?  I have about 50 of them in a box.  I'm more environmentally conscious than most...and will take them to a recycling center.
> How much sooner would LED technology developed if the gap in the market between filament style and LED had been left wide open and not temporarily filled with the FCL?
> ...


There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.  

That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?

I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption? If your answer is anything related to "enlightened self interest," I'm going to stop taking you seriously.  The financial crisis of 2008-2009 put that theory to rest for good, not to mention VW emissions fraud, Apple sweat shop labor, Deepwater Horizon, Love Canal, the burning rivers of America in the 70s, Madoff, leaded gasoline, executive compensation. These are just the examples that jumped immediately to mind, there are endless examples.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2017)

traffic led lights- some are so bright that i can't see where i am turning the corner or what is on coming traffic wise - too much glare , another downside here is since they do not emit much heat they get iced up and then of course you have no idea what is what.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.
> 
> That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?
> 
> I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption? If your answer is anything related to "enlightened self interest," I'm going to stop taking you seriously.  The financial crisis of 2008-2009 put that theory to rest for good, not to mention VW emissions fraud, Apple sweat shop labor, Deepwater Horizon, Love Canal, the burning rivers of America in the 70s, Madoff, leaded gasoline, executive compensation. These are just the examples that jumped immediately to mind, there are endless examples.


    As to greed - that is timeless been going on since Adam and Eve.  Plenty of new Coal tech that delets alot of the bad areas.   Madof is nothing compared to our own Govt. ( example SS) So you want me to power my vehicle with Electric- produced by coal plants primarily because the greed of the utilities means they do not want to shell out on repairing infastructure. Such as the dozens of damns with small hydro outputs that they are unwilling to upgrade or as here refuse to buy power generated from methane gas at various landfills locally ( their excuse is the power is too dirty- they obviously haven't looked at what they are suppling lately) and on and on.   2 sides to every story.  Or perhaps you enjoy the 100 % increase in your grocery bill due to the mass amount of crop land devoted to producing corn  to be converted to ethanol( which costs more than it saves ) not to mention the subsidies paid for doing so ( more Greed) and that most ethanol and bio productions plants for power are not profitable with out the subsidies.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

blades said:


> As to greed - that is timeless been going on since Adam and Eve.  Plenty of new Coal tech that delets alot of the bad areas.   Madof is nothing compared to our own Govt. ( example SS) So you want me to power my vehicle with Electric- produced by coal plants primarily because the greed of the utilities means they do not want to shell out on repairing infastructure. Such as the dozens of damns with small hydro outputs that they are unwilling to upgrade or as here refuse to buy power generated from methane gas at various landfills locally ( their excuse is the power is too dirty- they obviously haven't looked at what they are suppling lately) and on and on.   2 sides to every story.  Or perhaps you enjoy the 100 % increase in your grocery bill due to the mass amount of crop land devoted to producing corn  to be converted to ethanol( which costs more than it saves ) not to mention the subsidies paid for doing so ( more Greed) and that most ethanol and bio productions plants for power are not profitable with out the subsidies.


I totally agree with what you are saying, the private sector does not have a monopoly on greed and corruption, and govt has only gotten worse since citizens united. What I am asking for is your ideas for a better alternative. 

 I'd personally start with a reversal of that corrupting precedent granting corporations rights previously reserved for humans. I'd better stop now as I'm treading dangerously close to the forbidden political zone.

Seriously though, I'm with you that more regulation and govt is not the answer. I'm for the getting the correct amount, and direction, of both, and that seems to be where we are all going completely off the rails these days.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 23, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> There are certainly a lot of misses in regulation, there is no arguing that.
> 
> That said, have you researched how much less mercury rich coal was burned to power the CFLs compared to the incandescents they replaced for that gap period between incandescents and LEDs?
> 
> I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are about what other forces are available to counter rampant greed and corruption?



How much was the net savings if you consider that tons of people did not use them for anywhere near their anticipated life and many disposed of them improperly? 

The same lack of individual morality that causes an elected official to take a bribe from a construction company, is the same lack of individual morality that caused the construction company to offer that bribe.  This is a human condition and has no greater place in private industry than government bureaucracy.

Your post above appeared while I was posting....
An alternative would be to have true transparency in government where your rights are not trampled and the citizen is wrong until proven right.  The little Joe Smith has to have millions to fight in court..and most just give up.  
It would also be really nice to see corrupt officials truly punished when they are convicted.  Not just resign from office with a hefty pension.  Some real justice.


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## Highbeam (Mar 23, 2017)

Chas0218 said:


> If it was bought at HD or Lowes and you used a credit card they can do a reverse look up.



 I got burned by this since I get new credit card numbers every 6 months or so when my credit card number gets stolen or could have been compromised. New cards, new numbers, mean HD can't look it up.


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## jebatty (Mar 23, 2017)

This sure took a turn to rag on the govt. It's so easy to blame the "govt," but I think it is very important to fully understand that the "govt" responds to industries, one against another, and a whole lot of govt action is action either to protect or to enhance one industry vs another. For 35 years I worked in several areas of heavily regulated industry. So much of industry is focused on govt adopting regulations that keep out competitors, make business more expensive for competitors, etc, all to maximize profits of one against another. In the energy area its coal vs oil vs gas vs wind vs solar vs nuclear vs whatever comes next. Coal, oil, gas and nuclear have been heavily subsidized and continue to receive large subsidies, and they oppose wind and solar and the subsidies they have received, which are miniscule in comparison. This all is capitalism (profit being the only purpose) at its worst or best, depending on your perspective.

As to LEDs, they are great. If a few fail, so what? Every other thing a person buys has failures as well - don't forget the trash US autos made not so many years ago and some still are today. Same for appliances, electronics, etc. I'm happy LEDs came along, and now just waiting to see what comes next in the lighting arena.


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## peakbagger (Mar 23, 2017)

I had one LED failure that I was glad the house didn't burn down. There are power electronics in the base of the bulb and something went "zip zap pop" one day and I had a smoking LED bulb. I have switched much of my house over to them except for custom fixtures like my overhead fan with a built in circle line fluorescent. I particularly love them in a cold space like my bulkhead, outdoor lights and my garage. I managed to get a hold of some with distinctly blue coloration but I just use them where I don't care. The LED flood replacements to replace halogens are particularly nice and put out a lot more useful light. Mine is up on a pole that my plow guy used to rattle when pushing the snow banks back, I used to have to go up there about every other year and replace or reset the halogen. Knock on wood its been three years and the LED still works fine.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

sportbikerider78 said:


> How much was the net savings if you consider that tons of people did not use them for anywhere near their anticipated life and many disposed of them improperly?
> 
> The same lack of individual morality that causes an elected official to take a bribe from a construction company, is the same lack of individual morality that caused the construction company to offer that bribe.  This is a human condition and has no greater place in private industry than government bureaucracy.
> 
> ...


I knew we agreed on this, just needed to work through it.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

Some of you may have read an earlier post on a different thread about my new water/energy saving washing machine, chock full of the newest technology, that crapped out after 10 loads, and was totaled by the company because of a bad controller board. I'm pretty sure that discarding it is not a net positive for the environment. I'm going to try to reuse as much of it as possible in different projects around the place. EnergyStar indeed.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2017)

couple years back got new washer energysaver low water use ect. been ok but as far as saving water well maybe if you are an office worker, me I get pretty  dirty so end up using the heavy duty cycle or bulky one.  It is easier on the clothes than my old agitator rig. I always have to pre treat the worst areas mostly with a mix of cleaner degreaser and dish detergant, which isn't anything new had to do that with the old one as well.  with the high speed spin it does save on the gas dryer use - anyway so far so good - bad thing is the place I got it from folded there doors- and I had an extended warranty.  I almost never buy into this kind of thing but things being what they are now days and the cost of this unit figured better safe than sorry- still got the shaft dag nab it. Can't break even. Gave up on winning years ago.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 23, 2017)

blades said:


> couple years back got new washer energysaver low water use ect. been ok but as far as saving water well maybe if you are an office worker, me I get pretty  dirty so end up using the heavy duty cycle or bulky one.  It is easier on the clothes than my old agitator rig. I always have to pre treat the worst areas mostly with a mix of cleaner degreaser and dish detergant, which isn't anything new had to do that with the old one as well.  with the high speed spin it does save on the gas dryer use - anyway so far so good - bad thing is the place I got it from folded there doors- and I had an extended warranty.  I almost never buy into this kind of thing but things being what they are now days and the cost of this unit figured better safe than sorry- still got the shaft dag nab it. Can't break even. Gave up on winning years ago.


When I was young, I used to get suckered into extended warranties. I think three out of four places went out of business, leaving the coverage stranded. And, of course, the items purchased at those places failed. Good lessons.


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## saewoody (Mar 23, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> I got burned by this since I get new credit card numbers every 6 months or so when my credit card number gets stolen or could have been compromised. New cards, new numbers, mean HD can't look it up.



If you have your old card number and expiration date, they should be able to look up the purchase. I've done it at HD. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## begreen (Mar 23, 2017)

sportbikerider78 said:


> The current driver is just as important.  Those can be made in many places and it could be or not be name brand even if the emitter is.
> 
> If I had a failure, I'd just take it back to Lowes or HD and ask for a replacement.  See what they say.  I spend a ton of money in those places and they can be quite good about keeping you happy if you are a good customer.


I try to shop local and only get into HD about once or twice a year at the most. It costs more to make the trip than the bulb cost, so I will chalk it up to experience. Could be that FEIT just makes crappy LEDs. This same brand's dimmable bulb was not very dimmable. I replaced those bulbs with Philips and they dim quite nicely.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 23, 2017)

Hey, I have a light complaint and it may even involve leds!
I think police lights have gotten so bright, coming at them from behind, that they're a hazard!  They blind me, anyway.


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## Texas123 (Mar 23, 2017)

Don't knock the old fashioned incandescent light. Thousands of us country folks have and will use these as the primary lights during the winter. Outrage from the rural communities is why we still have the 150 plus watt heat lamps for chicken coop and water well house use.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 24, 2017)

begreen said:


> 8 months ago I replaced a 30w circuline fluorescent lamp with a pendant fixture and a 9.5w FEIT led bulb. The circuline fixture was 21 yrs old. Lamps lasted about 5 yrs. with regular use. The LED bulb just died after 8 months of the same duty. This was the first LED bulb I've installed here and unfortunately I didn't save the receipt, so it's a loss. I'm disappointed if this is going to be the typical lifespan. Now replaced with a Philips 60w with a claimed 22yr. lifespan @3hrs a day/7days a week. We'll see.



Feit isn't known for outstanding quality, but 8 months is far too short. I installed a 4-pack of the same bulb maybe 6 months ago, 2 in an open fixture, 2 in an enclosed fixture (the package said not to, but I wanted to test if I could get away with it). The open fixture bulbs are still doing fine. The closed fixture bulbs lasted probably 3-4 months. They're apparently heat sensitive. I could see a pendant light with a closed top being another location where this particular bulb just can't take the heat.

I do like their color quality though. They are significantly closer in light appearance to an incandescent than any other bulbs I'm using.

I've had two of the Philips budget 8W bulbs in an identical enclosed fixture for about 2 years now without issue. For as cheap as they are, I didn't really expect them to prove heat tolerant, but the low power consumption helps. I think my oldest LED's are about 3-4 years old. One of them spends long evenings on. I wouldn't be surprised if it's close to 10,000 hours by now.

Most of my lights are still CFL's, somewhat to my annoyance. I strongly dislike the color quality, but they just won't die and give me an excuse to replace them. They're all about 5 years old, and I've only had one die that entire time.



Chas0218 said:


> When buying LED lights you get what you pay for, make sure the actual LEDs is either a CREE or epistar. Those are the 2 best LED you can buy and have been in the market since LEDs started to take off . If the package doesnt boast about having cree or epistar don't buy with expectations of it lasting very long.  I'm pretty sure Phillips uses cree but not sure of many other brands.  Some advertise CREE LEDs but are not the real thing but same technology.  Do your research and you'll see there is a big difference between quality.  Also CREE is one of the only USA manufactures of LEDs.



I pay zero attention to who makes the emitters. If the lamp has an hours claim that is based on LM80 testing, it either passed testing, or they're lying, in which case there's no reason to believe a claim to have Cree emitters inside either. As sportbikerider indicated, it's usually the driver that dies, not the LED's themselves.

Philips does make their own emitters under their Lumileds joint venture. Nichia is another quality brand, headquartered in Japan. Cree is headquartered in the US and does some lamp assembly in the US, but as far as I know, all their emitter manufacturing and lot of their lamp assembly is done overseas.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 24, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> Hey, I have a light complaint and it may even involve leds!
> I think police lights have gotten so bright, coming at them from behind, that they're a hazard!  They blind me, anyway.



These are terrible. Single color LED's are naturally more piercing, but most of the new emergency lights are simply far too bright. I'm a bit surprised there have not been any high profile accidents and lawsuits. I have very good vision, but still find myself having trouble seeing the lane markings as I approach police cars on the side of the road with their lights on.



sportbikerider78 said:


> How much sooner would LED technology developed if the gap in the market between filament style and LED had been left wide open and not temporarily filled with the FCL?



Not much. faster. The primary technology behind white LED's didn't exist until the mid-90's, despite decades of trying, and the first white LED's were terrible. CFL's already had been on the market for about 20 years by then. I think it was mid-2000's before the best of them were comparable in light quality and efficiency to CFL's, but still far higher price.


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## jebatty (Mar 24, 2017)

Texas123 said:


> ...we still have the 150 plus watt heat lamps for chicken coop and water well house use.


 Nothing particularly wrong with using heat lamps, because all incandescent bulbs excel at heating. If you don't mind the light, a regular lighting incandescent rated at 150+W that focuses the light will heat nearly as well as a heat lamp of equivalent wattage, and it may cost less. On the other hand, using electricity for resistance heating usually is about the most expensive source of heat available. But it is convenient or most practical for some purposes.

Keep in mind that if a person used a 150W LED (not equivalent watts, but actual watts), it also would work very well as a 150W heat lamp and use just as much electricity.


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## woodgeek (Mar 24, 2017)

begreen said:


> I try to shop local and only get into HD about once or twice a year at the most. It costs more to make the trip than the bulb cost, so I will chalk it up to experience. Could be that FEIT just makes crappy LEDs. This same brand's dimmable bulb was not very dimmable. I replaced those bulbs with Philips and they dim quite nicely.



I had an aversion to non-big name brands after being an early adopter to CFLs...going non-incandescent back in the mid 90s.  So I never got the FEITs.

I've been switching to LEDs gradually over the last 5 years or so, from high usage to lower usage locations.  I think I have 1 CFL left.

None of my 15+ Phillips have failed.  These are in various shapes and sizes, and among the oldest  and most $$ (3 L-prize bulbs going strong).

A couple of my 10 or so cheapo CREEs from Home Despot have failed, one from the glue holding the glass bulb letting go.  Will buy no more.

I've bought a few high brightness 'Hyperikons' for larger spaces recently (replacing high wattage CFLs).  So far, so good.

Lately I've been going to Chinese made 'filament' LEDs from Amazon.  So far, none have failed, they have all been cheap, solid, and many run around 100 lum/W.  I think of these as LED bulbs that @Ashful would buy.


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## woodgeek (Mar 24, 2017)

jebatty said:


> Keep in mind that if a person used a 150W LED (not equivalent watts, but actual watts), it also would work very well as a 150W heat lamp and use just as much electricity.



Yeah, but with 15,000 lumens inside a small coop, you would need to get all the chickens welders goggles.


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## jebatty (Mar 24, 2017)

Or, put a piece of sheet metal or aluminum, a foot or two in front of the bulb to absorb and radiate the heat, and reflect some light back into the coop. Would that be called a coup d'etat?


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## velvetfoot (Mar 24, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> A couple of my 10 or so cheapo CREEs from Home Despot have failed, one from the glue holding the glass bulb letting go. Will buy no more.


The ones that failed on me were totally enclosed, and looked like an old light bulb.  I noticed the newer models were ventilated.


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## begreen (Mar 24, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> Yeah, but with 15,000 lumens inside a small coop, you would need to get all the chickens welders goggles.



 that evokes a funny image


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## Brian26 (Mar 24, 2017)

I have had a few burn out on me over the last year or so. I just toss them like a regular light bulb and buy another one. At over .20 kwh for power here if it last's more than 6 months I am way ahead compared to the usage of an incandescent. They sell them for practically nothing here in CT as the states efficiency program has an instant rebate on them at the hardware stores and Home Depot that brings the price down like 75% from retail. I can buy a brand new 60 watt led for under a dollar here.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 24, 2017)

Brian26 said:


> I can buy a brand new 60 watt led for under a dollar here.


Hence the .20/kwh.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 24, 2017)

velvetfoot said:


> Hence the .20/kwh.



Not really. Obviously, the bulb subsidies do add to rate the utility has to charge, but we're talking fractions of a penny per kWh.

With incandescent bulb sales restricted by regulation and generally less cost effective anyways, and LED's superior in almost every way to CFL's, I really don't see any remaining justification for subsidizing bulbs, but at least it's a relatively small cost.


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## Where2 (Mar 25, 2017)

IIRC, I logged 486 days out of my first Cree LED. With some gentle prodding, CREE sent me another, but by the time I received that I had long since reinstalled the original CFL back into the fixture on my dock where I was testing the Cree dusk to dawn. At the moment, the dock (built in 2006) is still running the two original CFL bulbs, dusk to dawn, year round. The formerly bright white plastic electronic housings on the CFL's have yellowed from UV exposure, but they keep going.


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## Tegbert (Mar 26, 2017)

woodgeek said:


> I've bought a few high brightness 'Hyperikons' for larger spaces recently (replacing high wattage CFLs).  So far, so good.



I recently bought hyperikons led tube lights to replace all my shop lights. Have 20 fixtures in the shop and only one tube per each now and they seem to be just as bright as all 40 fluorescent tubes. Just have to bypass the ballast in the fixtures but I've been extremely happy with them so far. But since they are more directional they need to be mounted higher to get the same usable light. Not a problem in my shop but could be for people using in areas with normal or low ceilings. Also it is a USA based company for those that care but do outsource some production and parts. 

Just thought I would throw that out there for others looking for replacement bulbs for fluorescent bulbs. 

My whole house is led and so was my last one. Some of the bulbs came with me and have been in use for about 3 years now and no issues here. Most of mine are from Costco whatever brand or chips and leds they use. 



Lopi Rockport


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## begreen (Mar 26, 2017)

Where2 said:


> IIRC, I logged 486 days out of my first Cree LED. With some gentle prodding, CREE sent me another, but by the time I received that I had long since reinstalled the original CFL back into the fixture on my dock where I was testing the Cree dusk to dawn. At the moment, the dock (built in 2006) is still running the two original CFL bulbs, dusk to dawn, year round. The formerly bright white plastic electronic housings on the CFL's have yellowed from UV exposure, but they keep going.


Have to admit that the last generation of CFLs I've installed are like the Energizer bunny. They just keep going and going. When they finally burn out I have been replacing them with LEDs but so far 3-5 yrs of regular use has been their typical lifespan.


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## Rearscreen (Mar 27, 2017)

I wonder if the LED failure could have been caused by an incompatible dimmer? An incandescent dimmer uses an SCR, which basically takes a portion of the 60 cycle wave and closes the circuit for a length of time. Dimming just sends a shorter "time" of electricity to the bulb. So, if you use this type of dimmer to an LED driver circuit, it's like attaching a dimmer to a tv set or radio. It really doesn't like it. So, different manufacturers of LED's specify different types of dimmers that are compatible. None however will dim as well as an incandescent. Some LED bulb designs generate, in the driver, a considerable amount of heat. I always wondered about that as far as the electronics. Resistors, capacitors, microchips, transformers, really can't tolerate heat and values change thus resulting in failure.  2 years ago I took out every incandescent and replaced them with the Phillips flat led bulb. Brilliant design. Not selling in stores. Too unusual I guess for the average customer. What makes the design so great is the electronics and heat sink are all incorporated within the bulb itself and not in the base. It never gets hot. Lightweight, warm bright, and you can drop it from a ladder and won't break. I have maybe 40 in my house, 2 years not one failure.


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## jatoxico (Mar 27, 2017)

Rearscreen said:


> 2 years ago I took out every incandescent and replaced them with the Phillips flat led bulb. Brilliant design. Not selling in stores.



Not that I've been looking all that hard but that's the first time I've seen those. Interesting design, guess you can't put a bulb mounted shade on one. Does the light diffuse evenly?


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## Rearscreen (Mar 27, 2017)

I think that was one of the issues, the perceived light direction plus the shade mounting. We have shades attached to our bulbs, and the light is even. I just had to take one apart once and the circuit board has a dual role as - a circuit board and a heat sink.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Even without a lampshade, the Philips Slimstyle has a surprisingly good light distribution. It's not a top performer by most other metrics, but it was one of the most affordable bulbs on the market when it came out.

I think their effective cooling design has helped make the bulb reliable.


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## georgepds (Mar 27, 2017)

sportbikerider78 said:


> You can also thank govt regulation for the billions of FCL's that are hitting the landfills...filled with mercury.  They made them cheap with subsidy.  Almost gave them out for free in some states.
> ....



In my town they have a hazardous waste day once or twice a year. Best guess is they box them up and send theme to China.. I know that's what they do with the electronics


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## begreen (Mar 27, 2017)

We used to take them to our local power company, but now our county has a recycling bin for fluorescents.


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## woodgeek (Mar 27, 2017)

I had a racket going where I was buying 'used' 1100 lumen, 13W slim styles from amazon for like $3 (versus $8 msrp).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OCWZQH4/?tag=hearthamazon-20

I think the weird shape led to a large number of returns...and my gain.

I like them at $3, and have quite a few, don't like them at $9.


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## sportbikerider78 (Mar 28, 2017)

My local HD carries Phillips "normal style" 60W LED bulbs for <$2 each.  It is a 4 pack for $7.89 or so.  

One time they had 4 packs for $5.  I stocked up.


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## Brian26 (Apr 1, 2017)

I just replaced 2 phillips 90 watt halogen floodlight bulbs with 2 led equivalents. The led's have nowhere near the light output of the 90 watt halogens they replaced but they only use 13 watts. Further research shows the halogen's are 1350 lumens and the leds are only 900. The equivalent wattages and color output are the same. The ecosmart 90w led 2 pack only cost me $6 with CT's instant energy efficiency rebate program on them at HD so no complaints on the price. I guess I will look into buying  a120 watt led equivalent to get close to the same light.

Original halogen
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...door-Flood-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-429373/203231668
Led
http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart...d-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-5bHPR1000SW1D19/206668154


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## Hasufel (Apr 2, 2017)

A few years back I replaced three ceiling lights with PAR-type LED floods from (I think) EcoSmarte. These were probably 1st gen models and, as I recall, were pretty pricey. They lasted about two years and then, within the space of a few weeks, they went bad one by one. They all died the same way--they just started strobing. So maybe there was some quirk with the circuit boards that caused premature failure of the bulb even though the LED part still worked. I replaced them with newer and cheaper LEDs that are still working fine.

I've been gradually swapping in LEDs elsewhere in the house but hit one snag...we have a few closet fixtures controlled by digital timer switches but those don't work with LEDs. I checked Lutron's website but didn't see any similar switches that are compatible with LEDs. You'd think it shouldn't be that hard but it seems like the switch does some kind of load testing that LED bulbs fail.


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## Tegbert (Apr 2, 2017)

If I recall correctly the timer has to be a four wire version not three. I have a push button timer and had to get one that had 4 to get it to work with leds. Something about when incandescent lights are off they still pass voltage through but when leds are off nothing or hardly anything flows through and most timers require that pass through voltage to work. I'll try to find exactly what it said. 

The 4th wire gets connected to the live wire so the timer has the voltage required to work correctly. 

Lopi Rockport


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