# Has anyone tried to build a combination masonry heater/boiler system?



## mitchell (Feb 1, 2009)

Masonry heaters are proven, clean burning, efficient, safe systems. I have a detached 900sq' garage I would like to heat, and an abundant wood supply. My wife will not have a wood burning appliance in the house. I have plenty of time, a low budget, and like to tinker & experiment. Masonry heaters work by burning hot and fast, absorbing retaining and slowly releasing heat. Would it not be possible to insulate the entire mass and extract the heat to a large liquid storage tank? These heaters are capable of heating large houses, so my goal would be to heat the garage, and if successful use any excess to supplement the house.


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## pybyr (Feb 1, 2009)

I knew of one situation where someone had built a masonry heater with some huge old cast iron radiators in the firepath, so that those could extract the heat for hot water and a small hydronic loop in addition to the heat from the masonry mass.  I always just wondered about the fire eventually may have eaten away at the radiators, or, more likely, the iron pipe tying the radiators together and connecting them to the heat load.

Could you perhaps weave PEX tubing into an intermediate layer of the masonry of the masonry heater, and use that to extract heat?  Then you would also need to have end-use loads that could use medium-temp water, and you'd also need to either do a drain-back system or else have antifreeze (which reduces heat transfer effectiveness of the liquid).

How about building an "annex" between garage and house where you could put a tried and true wood burning unit, but not "in the house" for reasons of your WAF.  Maybe find an old Tarm 502 that someone else is not using?


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## kuribo (Feb 1, 2009)

There is a Russian expert who has been building masonry boilers. See this site for more details:

http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/home.html


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## cguida (Feb 1, 2009)

Igor Kuznetsov, of the 'free gas movement' (not politics!)

http://stove.ru/index.php?lng=1&rs=109

This site is definately worth some study!


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## cguida (Feb 1, 2009)

Here's a picture of one of Kuznetsov's masonry boiler creations


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## canyon (Feb 1, 2009)

Check out the rocket fired mass heaters as well. I call it the intelligent poor man's masonry heater. Although not operational yet, I built a tube shell heat exchanger to heat water as an option for my rocket (via Y-valve damper) besides a thermal battery bench. However, I have theorized that a mass bench with copper coiled in the mass around the flue would be a simpler heat exchanger for hot water. Anyway, the book by Ianto Evans and Leslie Jackson is a good primer.


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## cguida (Feb 1, 2009)

Rocket Stoves!  Yes indeed.  This really is masonry stove building for the manually (and mentally) impaired -- like me.  If you have built one of these things, (or are in the process), can you tell lus the details?  Post pictures


http://www.rocketstoves.com/

This book has lots of interesting information about why chimnys work.  Also some amazing beautiful pictures of stoves. 

Also definately worth consideration is Albie Barden's Masonry Heater for the Average Guy... (or someting like that). Masonry heater based around standard 2x2 flue tiles.

http://mainewoodheat.com/?p=293&album=6&gallery=25

Actually -- not that anybody asked me -- you have to wonder about putting a masonry heater in a garage. Not only are the aesthetics wasted on the cars and tractors and such ... but also, masonry heaters are great at holding heat, but they don't respond very fast.  If you wanted to warm up the garage so you could go out and do some task there, you'd have to plan 24hours ahead just to take the chill off.

Show the wife those beautiful pictures of masonry heaters. She won't be able to resist. She will demand that you provide her with one in the livingroom!
Photo Gallery
http://mainewoodheat.com/?p=293


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## canyon (Feb 2, 2009)

Good job posting all that stuff SMEE. Take a visit to the rocket stove forum and you'll see a lot of cool rocket stuff going on including a bit on rocket fired bells (free gas movement). Not even a tiny fraction of attendance that this forum has but it is growing.


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## daleeper (Feb 2, 2009)

canyon said:
			
		

> Good job posting all that stuff SMEE. Take a visit to the rocket stove forum and you'll see a lot of cool rocket stuff going on including a bit on rocket fired bells (free gas movement). Not even a tiny fraction of attendance that this forum has but it is growing.



What rocket stove forum are you refering to?  I would like to check it out.


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## canyon (Feb 3, 2009)

DALEEPER,

There is a link on the rocket stove site (see the resources page) that SMEE posted a link to above (rocketstoves.com)


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## daleeper (Feb 3, 2009)

canyon said:
			
		

> DALEEPER,
> 
> There is a link on the rocket stove site (see the resources page) that SMEE posted a link to above (rocketstoves.com)



Thanks canyon, my first trip, I didn't see it.


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## Floydian (Feb 3, 2009)

I have thought about a combination masonry heater/hydronic heater a bit. I really like the simplicity of how a masonry heater works-
no power needed, integrated oven and or cook surface. I don't like that a floor plan is somewhat more limited though. If one could heat say a kitchen/dining/living room area with a masonry heater after pulling enough btu's away to store and use to heat the extremities of the house, then I think this could work well. I just have not been able to find a lot of info on this subject, but here is a link I found interesting:

http://www.willach-speckstein.de/exheat.html

It seems like they are claiming 6-12 Kw-say 20 to 40k btu for this integrated exchanger.
In the Pdf below they say about 50% of the heat energy is diverted to the hot water circuit.

http://www.hotrockmasonry.com/PDFs/Planning_Guide.pdf

Modeling something after this might work for a real do it yourselfer, but I think things could get complicated.
I don't know the price tag on these things(don't think want to) but if they are selling many of them then I am sure they have a lot of $ for RD.

Noah


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## cguida (Feb 6, 2009)

Mitchell, Floydian,

It looks to me like your interest in a combination masonry heater/boiler is eminently 'do-able.'  The Russian Stove guy Igor Kuznetsov apparently has built many such combination units -- heater/cookstove/boiler/bake oven/fireplace/fish and meat smoker...all in one unit.  His website is full of essays, pictures and plans.  And he is a big believer in what he calls the 'self-build principle' which we would translate as 'do-it-yourself.'  I don't think it would cost a fortune to build a modest version of one of these things.  Certainly worth investigating if you are interested.

But be warned -- Kuznetsov's site is not for the faint of heart.  The English translations can be kind of fractured, and I found most of the diagrams hard to follow. But I think it will be worth the effort.  

Traditonal Russion stoves are pretty demanding to build -- takes strict attention to dimensions, proportions and such.  Kuznetsov's designs look the same on the outside.  But inside they are fundamentally different -- and vastly more flexible in design.  

If it weren't the middle of winter and about 0 degrees outside, I'd be out in the dooryard re-arranging my collection of used bricks and experimenting.


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## Floydian (Feb 6, 2009)

Smee-for me its just too much of an undertaking at this point to really think about. I'm probably going to end up with a down draft gasser with storage in my basement. I think this fits my situation best. 

Kuznetsov's info is very interesting but I got bogged down in it. If I had someone locally who could show me a working model and allow me to pick their brain I would be more inclined, I just can't afford to make the mistakes that I probably would. And Oh the time it would take!

Noah


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## mitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

Thank you all for your input! Very informative. Alex Chernov seems to be the masonry heater expert. He designed an experimental heater/boiler for a shop in Perth Ontario. Look at Lopez Labs Masonry Hydronic Heating, great series of photos and some early resuts. This system seems like what I envisioned, although I would want a water/heat storage tank. I thought a well insulated 200 gal tank would do, but the plumbing, need guidance. I need a basic, safe system. Heater/boiler to tank, safety valve location/s, circulatory pump, size of lines, heat dump to garage from tank...


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