# 2021 Garden Thread



## DuaeGuttae

First harvest of the new year today and my first cauliflower ever, I believe.  It's roasting in the oven now with an olive oil/garlic/pecorino Romano sauce.  I have two more in the garden that are forming heads.





Here's a shot of the daikon radish I planted as a cover crop of sorts, though I put a fair amount of space between the plants.  I'm not sure that they will be winter killed in our climate, though.  My husband pulled up a large one a couple of weeks ago to kill it and then put it back in the soil.  The greens are dying, but the root is still pretty solid.  We want them to decompose in the garden beds.


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## WoodBurnerInWI

We garden using several raised garden beds and a decent patch of our yard turned into a squash and pumpkin patch. I expanded the dirt patch to double it in size a few weeks before Christmas and for this year we plan on expanding squash and pumpkin varieties to grow. We'd also like to add two more raised garden beds. Not 100% sure at the moment what we will grow in the garden beds this year. Last year it was green bell and red bell peppers, a billion or so tons of tomatoes, green beans, sugar snap peas, onions, kale, zucchini, kohlrabi, spaghetti squash, butternut squash, New England pie pumpkins, big max pumpkins, Connecticut Field pumpkin, and Long Island cheese wheel pumpkins.


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## EatenByLimestone

I went looking for hanging pots today.    My wife wants to grow herbs in the kitchen.   The local nurseries didn't have anything so we'll probably have to do Amazon.


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## DuaeGuttae

@WoodBurnerInWI, that sounds lovely.  We garden almost entirely in raised beds and large containers.  I have a section of yard I'd love to give over to squash and pumpkins and other ramblers, but we live in an area of the country with the highest population of whitetail deer per acre, and it shows.  We've fenced off our garden area quite well, and right now that's about all that I can care for in the summers.  We'll see about years to come.  Do you have pictures of your garden to share?

I'm very pleased that my older daughter made me up a template of our raised beds for my garden planning.  The top bed is all asparagus, and the long one of the left has onions in it this season.  We have daikon radishes planted in some as a cover crop, and in one of the square bed, lettuce has volunteered.  




@EatenByLimestone, as a wife who has grown herbs inside years ago, may I suggest that you look specifically for hanging baskets designated as "self-watering"?  They'll probably cost more but will be easier to maintain and run less risk of overfilling and spilling water on the floor if you're keeping them inside.  We used some in a carpeted living room in a rental townhouse, and they were great.  When we bought our own house, we used them outside, and eventually the UV light broke them down.


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## WoodBurnerInWI

@DuaeGuttae  Here are some photos of the garden from last summer, probably around early or mid July: 









Forgot we also grew red potatoes lol!! 

The squash/pumpkin patch is now doubled in size and hopefully this year (if Menards still sells them) we will add more raised garden beds.


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## EatenByLimestone

Looked at 2 more nurseries today.   One gave me an old hanging pot that was used.    The wife likes free better than buying something so we'll try that.   Planted most of it with basil, but threw a bit of cilantro and parsely in on the sides.


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## DuaeGuttae

@WoodBurnerInWI, thanks for the photos.  Everything looks beautiful, including those stack of wood!  We moved from Virginia (lush and green) to the edge of Texas Hill Country a few years back.  It's a much more arid climate here, and now I find myself surprised to see so much green in photos of other places.  It's beautiful, though.

@EatenByLimestone, we always prefer free over purchased as well.  Congratulations.

I have one tiny cilantro plant sprouted inside right now.  We've never grown it before because my kids don't care for it in abundance.  They do agree that it's helpful in small amounts, though.  We've got lots of parsley in the garden, but I plan to start more soon.


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## DuaeGuttae

I spent several hours working in the garden today.  I have enough plants growing that I still need to keep my ollas filled, though it's a lot less frequent than in the summer, which is a blessing.  We may even get some rain tonight and tomorrow, so I also mixed some blood meal, bone meal, and neem meal into my onion bed and put on more mulched leaves and watered them down.

Before we expanded our garden, our exterior fencing was only what we had scavenged from our property, and the garden was trapezoidal because the back panel was much longer than the gate.  When we expanded the garden, we made it much more rectangular.   All the long beds looked pretty reasonable, but the squares in the interior looked rather wonky because of the way they had been built to accommodate the original trapezoid.  Today I removed tall trellises, moved some ollas, dug up lots of soil, raked away mulch from the exterior, and managed (with the help of my husband) to make the inner four squares much more square.  Then I put all the soil back in and mulch back around.  It was tiring, but it's very satisfying to have it done.  Now it looks much more like the template I posted above.

Now I'm going to go make pizza with the last of the sauce I made and froze from our garden tomatoes.


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## EatenByLimestone

A good day of work that will pay off for years!


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## begreen

We just harvested the last of the tomatoes from the greenhouse. That Early Girl plant went in last April, though started in February. Surprisingly, the last tomatoes we have been getting for the past month have been smaller, but extra sweet and tasty. Outside we are still getting nice harvests of broccoli sprouts every couple weeks, plus chard and kale. And there are some fall lettuce starts that are getting close to be ready for their first picking. I have them under remay fabric to reduce the pounding from the rain. It seems to help.

Spring is definitely coming. Signs are starting to show.


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## fbelec

begreen what kind of lettuce are you growing? any pics


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## Riff

All of our seed orders have been filled. Started ordering in November as seeds for 2021 became available. Baker Creek seeds is reporting they have 5x the business this January over last January and at one point they shutdown to be able to catch up. Point being it might be a good idea to place your orders sooner rather than later if you haven't already.


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## EatenByLimestone

I ordered and received mine too.


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## Eureka

I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.  Nothing will even germinate for me.


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## EatenByLimestone

Lol.   I got basil to germinate in my kitchen window.   Probably wouldn't care for all the snow that fell today.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> A good day of work that will pay off for years!



That's what I was telling myself when I was spending time protecting our young citrus (five trees of various sorts) and young olives (three trees) when we had a hard freeze predicted.  We're right on the line for hardiness for these, but we figure that if we can get them through their young and tender years, they'll have a better chance of survival (and they'll be too big for us to protect anyway).  We have hope because of the large, established mandarin that came with our house.  There was thick frost on the coverings the next morning, but the plants looked good when I uncovered them a day later.

@Eureka, I love that picture of your garden.  I envy your nice fence and your snow.

@Riff, that was a good heads up about seeds.  I had ordered most of mine in November as well, but some things I wanted just weren't available at that time, so it was a good reminder to get those last items taken care of.  I actually just this week started seeds inside for things like broccoli, cauliflower, Chinese cabbage, and Swiss chard.   I need to get a couple rounds of cool-weather crops in so that I can free up my lights for the heat lovers later on.

@begreen, how tall did that Early Girl end up growing?  How many tomatoes do you suppose you got over the season?  It sounds quite impressive.


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## begreen

fbelec said:


> begreen what kind of lettuce are you growing? any pics


Green and red salad bowl and a mix that we have been growing for the past couple years.




It's time to start another row.

The January King cabbage is getting ready to pick too!


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## DuaeGuttae

We had a damp but warm weekend.  We occasionally get something that isn't exactly rain, more like cloudy days with heavy mist, and this weekend it was enough to give us almost eighth of an inch of moisture.  My garden seems to have enjoyed it, and I even found mystery sprouts under some Daikon leaves.  It's possible that it's rhubarb that I seeded at the very end of August in the hopes of growing it as a winter annual.    Those seeds never germinated, but the spacing looks about right for something intentionally planted.  I have put other seeds in that bed at times that likewise didn't germinate, and I allowed some flowers to go to seed,  and there's always the possibility of weeds.  I'm hoping for rhubarb, though, except that it's really the wrong time of year to start it around here.    I'll be watching to see what it looks like in coming days.

I also did some soil work in the trough where I plan to plant out Swiss chard, perhaps some as early as this weekend.  @begreen, what spacing do you recommend for chard?  I'm going to start with an oval planter that's three feet long and 1 and a half feet wide and has two ollas in it for moisture, so those take up some space.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> We had a damp but warm weekend.  We occasionally get something that isn't exactly rain, more like cloudy days with heavy mist, and this weekend it was enough to give us almost eighth of an inch of moisture.  My garden seems to have enjoyed it, and I even found mystery sprouts under some Daikon leaves.  It's possible that it's rhubarb that I seeded at the very end of August in the hopes of growing it as a winter annual.    Those seeds never germinated, but the spacing looks about right for something intentionally planted.  I have put other seeds in that bed at times that likewise didn't germinate, and I allowed some flowers to go to seed,  and there's always the possibility of weeds.  I'm hoping for rhubarb, though, except that it's really the wrong time of year to start it around here.    I'll be watching to see what it looks like in coming days.
> 
> I also did some soil work in the trough where I plan to plant out Swiss chard, perhaps some as early as this weekend.  @begreen, what spacing do you recommend for chard?  I'm going to start with an oval planter that's three feet long and 1 and a half feet wide and has two ollas in it for moisture, so those take up some space.


A healthy chard plant gets huge.  Often there are a few plants, not just one. I usually leave at least 2 ft. spacing


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> A healthy chard plant gets huge.  Often there are a few plants, not just one. I usually leave at least 2 ft. spacing



Thanks, Begreen.  I have my doubts that I could grow a chard plant as healthy and strong as you can (especially once the Texas heat kicks in), but I'm going to give it a go.  I have six starts from seed hardening off right now.  There are a couple of clusters, but I had planned to thin to just one and plant them in an oval around my ollas.  Do you not thin your clumps?


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Thanks, Begreen.  I have my doubts that I could grow a chard plant as healthy and strong as you can (especially once the Texas heat kicks in), but I'm going to give it a go.  I have six starts from seed hardening off right now.  There are a couple of clusters, but I had planned to thin to just one and plant them in an oval around my ollas.  Do you not thin your clumps?


I'm a chump, I usually plant the clumps.


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## begreen

Well, this was a pleasant surprise. Final harvest before I take down the huge greenhouse tomato plant. I love early girls. The final tomatoes were about half the size of summer early girl tomatoes from the same plant, but the taste seems to be concentrated. They are exceptionally good.


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## EatenByLimestone

Nice!    I'm jealous.  Itll be 6 months before I see a tomatoe from the garden again.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I'm a chump, I usually plant the clumps.



I planted the clumps, too, on Friday.  So far they look to be enjoying the weather. 

I also transplanted some broccoli, cauliflower, parsley, and dill.  It seems bizarre to me in January, but I'm trying to learn to take advantage of the cooler seasons here.  I have other things like Chinese cabbage potted up inside.

I did start tomato seeds this weekend.  With more space this year outside, I have more seeds started inside.  We'll see how that goes when I start potting them up.  

@begreen, that was an amazing final crop for that Early Girl.  Congratulations!  Do you have pictures of the actual plant?  Do you prune throughout the season?


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I planted the clumps, too, on Friday.  So far they look to be enjoying the weather.
> 
> I also transplanted some broccoli, cauliflower, parsley, and dill.  It seems bizarre to me in January, but I'm trying to learn to take advantage of the cooler seasons here.  I have other things like Chinese cabbage potted up inside.
> 
> I did start tomato seeds this weekend.  With more space this year outside, I have more seeds started inside.  We'll see how that goes when I start potting them up.
> 
> @begreen, that was an amazing final crop for that Early Girl.  Congratulations!  Do you have pictures of the actual plant?  Do you prune throughout the season?


Prune no. Hack back, yes.  It was a really big plant. This is not a great shot, but it's what the plant looked like in November.


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## fbelec

wow that is a tomato tree


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## begreen

fbelec said:


> wow that is a tomato tree


It's actually much larger and extends to the left and right quite a bit. I had just pruned it back heavily before this picture.


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## begreen

New harvest. This is a January King cabbage. It's the first year that we have grown them and they seem to love our winter weather.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> New harvest. This is a January King cabbage. It's the first year that we have grown them and they seem to love our winter weather.
> View attachment 273690


 
Beautiful, Begreen, as was your tomato hedge!  Thanks for posting pictures.I had never heard of January King cabbage before you posted your earlier shot, and now I've read about it in at least two articles as I've been reading about cold and heat tolerance in vegetables.  

Today I dug out my old heat mat from when I used to start seeds under lights in a cool unfinished basement room.  I had been keeping a few pepper seeds on our mantel, but we let the stove go out a day or so ago, and I was starting a bunch more today and wanted to get them a bit of bottom heat.  Our weather is bouncing around like crazy.  It was over 80 today, but an updated forecast for next week just showed me a possible low of 19.  I'll be watching closely, but I'm not sure I can protect everything that will need protecting if we have temps like that.  Our cherry is in full bloom, the peach not far behind, and the blueberry buds are getting full.

Here's my glamor shot for the day, a camellia that we've recently acquired thanks to the generosity of our next door neighbors (we also have one that should bloom red later in the season).  They need to be grown in pots due to our alkaline soil, and they need shelter from the hot sun (and deer), so we have put a gate on our front porch, and they are growing by our front door.  I have wanted to grow Camellias for over 25 years now, but these are the first I've ever had.   I'm thrilled.


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## mar13

Saw my first daffodils of spring in bloom this weekend.  I think that's a bit earlier that normal.  Time to start looking for my first trillium in the forest, which would also be early if found within the next two weeks.


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## DuaeGuttae

Is anyone else worried about any outdoor plants during this cold spell?  We moved our blueberries to our garage once again in order to protect the buds, and I've covered the young citrus trees with frost cloth.  This weekend is when the temperatures are really supposed to plummet, and even frost cloth won't get close to enough protection.  We're going to put brooder lamps with incandescent bulbs under some of the covering, gallons or pails of water under the others, but I'm really not sure that there's much we can do.  The current forecast has us getting down to single digits.

We have a huge satsuma mandarin that lived through teens when we first moved here and didn't even know what the tree was, but single digits could definitely harm it, and that would be a shame.  I'm not sure that we have enough frost cloth to cover it, but we're going to try something, even if it's just draping all my shade cloth.   I'll need to cover the olives soon as well, and I think I may even need to cover my young bay tree and pomegranates.   It has been such a warm winter that everything was already breaking dormancy and growing new shoots.

I have a bed of onions I'd like to save, but I figure the first priority needs to be the trees and shrubs rather than the garden annuals.  I've got broccoli, cauliflower, Swiss chard, kale, lettuce, sugar snap peas, and a few herbs all doing nicely at the moment.  I know they can take some cold, but I figure single digits is pushing it.


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## begreen

I get concerned if the temps drop into the 20s. This would threaten a lemon and olive bush in the greenhouse. I would either need to put in an electric heater or fire up the Jotul. The forecast for nighttime low temps at the beginning of the week looked serious. I shut off the greenhouse water 3 days ago. But the reality is that the cold appears to be mostly staying east of the Cascades so far, which is a blessing. We've had a mild winter so far and many of our flowering plants are still doing well so far. We'll see what transpires in the next few days.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I get concerned if the temps drop into the 20s. This would threaten a lemon and olive bush in the greenhouse. I would either need to put in an electric heater or fire up the Jotul. The forecast for nighttime low temps at the beginning of the week looked serious. I shut off the greenhouse water 3 days ago. But the reality is that the cold appears to be mostly staying east of the Cascades so far, which is a blessing. We've had a mild winter so far and many of our flowering plants are still doing well so far. We'll see what transpires in the next few days.



Glad you've been spared so far, but I know that more is coming.  I think I remember that you lost an olive at some point to cold.  I covered my olives yesterday, and I'm glad I did.  This morning the garlic chives that grow right by the house were lying down.  I've not seen that before.  I also covered our pomegranates this morning, though they are pretty hardy.

I also have been running extension cords and putting up brooder lights near our larger citrus.  I'll need my husbands help (and ladders) this afternoon to see if we can wrap the large Satsuma.  It has done well in cold previously, but I don't think it's ever seen cold like this (given the age of our house and the weather history of the area).  We're in the 20's now and not liable to get out of them till next Wednesday.  Lows will be single digits for a couple of nights.  Unfortunately houses down here just weren't built for that.  We have pipes in external walls, and there isn't even a way to shut off water to external hose bibs in the winter.  We have just made a point of not using them at all.

My garden looks pretty beaten down.  I did cover my onions with shade cloth and an old shower curtain.  It's not the best, but I need to save the frost cloth for the more valuable plants.   It really makes me feel for the local farmers and people who depend on agriculture for their livelihood.  I understand that the last time cold like this came through (about 25 years ago), it really struck at blow at the citrus industry.


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## begreen

Well that wish has left the barn. We're at 10" and it's still coming down.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Well that wish has left the barn. We're at 10" and it's still coming down.



It has indeed, I see.  Beautiful photo.  I hope it at least provides some insulation for you in the greenhouse.  Do you have your Jotul fired up?

I'm inside thawing out my fingers and toes.  It took the whole afternoon and even some work after dark (because we needed a trip to the store for more effective fasteners) to get the Satsuma covered.  It's done.  Now we'll see whether it will be enough.


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## begreen

I fired up the Jotul one day last week when it was in the 20s. Fortunately, that was the low and the following days' lows were near freezing so the stove was not needed. Looks like the lemon and olive tree are still happy and the lettuce outside is recovering nicely now. Yesterday hit 52º here!

Brassicas and onions are pretty resilient. Have you lost power?


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I fired up the Jotul one day last week when it was in the 20s. Fortunately, that was the low and the following days' lows were near freezing so the stove was not needed. Looks like the lemon and olive tree are still happy and the lettuce outside is recovering nicely now. Yesterday hit 52º here!
> 
> Brassicas and onions are pretty resilient. Have you lost power?



Before everything went really cold, I did harvest some lettuce, kale, a small head of cabbage, and one stalk of Brussels sprouts.  I buried some of the small transplants with shredded leaves, and they subsequently got buried with five inches of snow and ice.  (My covering for the bulbing onions collapsed a bit.)  The temperatures got down to single digits for a couple of nights, so I figure that's no good for raised beds.  It's snowing again at a good clip right now with freezing temperatures all day.  It's still warmer than it was, though, and Saturday looks like the end.  If anything survives, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

We had power flickers and surges, and it fried a modem that had somehow been plugged in not through a surge protector.  One pipe got frozen, but it didn't burst.  Otherwise, we have kept power and water.  We believe that the transmission lines that run through our property feed a county fire station down the hill, so that is perhaps why we are spared the rolling blackouts.  The pump station for our community well is located down the other side of our hill, and it is enclosed in a building.  We are well provided for at home and are just staying hunkered down in the main living area where the woodstove is cranking.  We're being warned that the storm today might bring down lines in our area.

I needed to pot up some tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants yesterday.  It seemed strange to me to work inside my house with snow all over the ground outside, but it's only a month away from the last frost date here (though I'll probably wait more).  I also have seed potatoes waiting to be planted.  I had planned to have them in by now, but obviously the weather has changed those plans.


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## DuaeGuttae

I uncovered everything in the garden today since it's supposed to stay above freezing tonight.   It wasn't an encouraging sight, but it's possible that some plants (kale, lettuce, some onions) may make it if they didn't freeze all the way through.   The Swiss Chard, broccoli, and cauliflower are gone.  I have a few more that I just started hardening off today but not as many as I lost.  

The trees were a mixture of looking okay and looking pretty bad.  We'll need to give it some time to see what transpires.  Even if we lose some branches, it will be great if we saved the trunks.


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## begreen

I'm glad you were prepared and it wasn't worse for your family. Watch the chard for new growth sprouting from the root stalk. They are pretty tough.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I'm glad you were prepared and it wasn't worse for your family. Watch the chard for new growth sprouting from the root stalk. They are pretty tough.



Thanks, Begreen.  I think the chard didn’t make it.  It was in an old metal water trough, so it probably froze pretty thoroughly.  There is one cauliflower showing tiny signs of life, so I’ll be watching it.  I spent time on Thursday doing lots of transplanting (Swiss Chard, beets, cabbage, cauliflower, lettuce, green onions).  For some of those it was just one or two replacement plants I had been growing, so I’m starting some more chard, beets, and broccoli inside now.

The onions are perking back up even though they looked pretty awful last week.  It’s getting better and better each day.  There’s damage certainly, but there’s also hope for a good portion.  It’s lovely to see when so much else in the landscape is looking pretty bad right now.  Here’s a portion of that bed as well as a shot of my lone cilantro plant.  I only had one, and I was amazed at how cold hardy it was.   It really didn’t seem phased, though perhaps it was just well insulated by snow.  I also have some young dill that is growing back from the centers.




The next picture is a shot of our large Satsuma Mandarin.  We have hopes that we were able to keep the trunk and branches in fairly good shape, but it’s so sad to look at.  We have two others, one which came through fine, the other which we really don’t know if it will survive at all.  There’s nothing we can do but wait and see at this point.




On a happier note, we also had the delightful surprise yesterday of finding some asparagus spears poking up.  We counted seven today.  They‘re pretty hard to spot, not just in the photo but in real life, too, so it’s fun to hunt.



It’s actually a little late for planting potatoes down here from what I read (I’ve never tried it in this climate), but I already was sprouting my seed potatoes before that huge storm was forecast, so they went into the ground today.  It will be an interesting experiment.

It’s so encouraging to see all these little signs of life and health showing up again when so much else that is usually green (palm trees, rosemary, and other perennials) are brown all over.


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## clancey

I do not know much about gardening but that cabbage is amazing and that rose (I think that's what it is) is just beautiful and could win a rose contest..Enjoyed the pictures and I just bet that everything comes in just fine for I saw a growth of some kind starting to sprout..


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## Woodsplitter67

I am late this year. I started my seedings early February only to find out my son left the potting mix bag open and it got contaminated with seed. My pots were sprouting all kinds of stuff.  I got a fresh bag and started seeding a couple weekends ah
go and did some.e more seeding today..  Some of my stuff will start to go In the greenhouse next weekend...


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## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I am late this year. I started my seedings early February only to find out my son left the potting mix bag open and it got contaminated with seed. My pots were sprouting all kinds of stuff.  I got a fresh bag and started seeding a couple weekends ah
> go and did some.e more seeding today..  Some of my stuff will start to go In the greenhouse next weekend...



Great to have you join us, Woodsplitter67.  I’ve been doing more seed starting, a couple of later starts on tomatoes, eggplants, and peppers, as well as starting some herbs and flowers.  I have so much trouble germinating in the soil here in Texas  (it’s hard to keep the top layer moist) that I’ve decided to start more things inside this year.  My first round of plants is actually having a big week this week.  They’ve been spending longer and longer days outside, but I’m planning to leave them out nights this week as long as the forecast doesn’t change.  It will get cooler on Saturday, so they’ll come back in, but I like to give them outside time when they can get it.  (I also like not having to move them in and out.)






Are there any folks here who would be interested in trying a new variety of tomato?  I was recently given a packet of 100 seeds of a hybrid variety called Agi Red.  I think it was developed in the last several years on a small farm in California.  I’ve not grown it before, but I’ve started some, and even if I like it, I won’t use 100 seeds in the next ten years in my small garden.  My gardening neighbors buy transplants rather than starting seeds, so I’d be willing to send a few seeds out to fellow Hearth.com gardeners if anyone is interested.  Here’s a link from the farm that hybridized it.





__





						Agi Red Tomato - Artisan Seeds
					

Agi Red is a slightly oval red saladette-type tomato with yellow stripes.  It has both excellent flavor and extended shelf life.  Plants are very vigorous vines that resist disease for extended production over a long season.   Agi Red fruits can hang for extended time on the vine and can be...




					store.growartisan.com
				




If any one is interested, send me a PM with a name and address, and I’ll send some seeds out.


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## clancey

I am not a gardener but you sure do have some nice looking little plants in your picture and what a good idea to put them in a plastic bag for awhile. I have enough to do this year but maybe next year I will plant one or two or maybe three just to see how it does...Thanks for sharing and being generous with you seeds as well..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Yesterday morning I found that cutworms (or something like it) had been at work in my new lettuce patch.  A good number of the plants had been taken down.  In a moment of frustration, I asked aloud, “Why do I even try to garden?”

I heaved a big sigh, turned around, and was greeted by the unexpected sight of eight or nine baby potato sprouts making their first appearance.  I thought that was a pretty good answer to my question.  I love seeing plants grow.




I did go out later in the afternoon and harvest a bunch of more established lettuce that survived the big freeze.  We enjoyed it for lunch with a couple of green onions from the garden as well..


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## clancey

That lettuce looks really good---good to eat...I love to see the small little plants in the full of the moon because at that time they look real strong and healthy looking kind of crispy looking I would describe...Glad you enjoy gardening even though at times it gets frustrating..Right now I have snow about two or three feet deep in my yard and I have to shovel out just to open the gates---pretty but.....Thanks for the pictures and update...clancey.


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> That lettuce looks really good---good to eat...I love to see the small little plants in the full of the moon because at that time they look real strong and healthy looking kind of crispy looking I would describe...Glad you enjoy gardening even though at times it gets frustrating..Right now I have snow about two or three feet deep in my yard and I have to shovel out just to open the gates---pretty but.....Thanks for the pictures and update...clancey.



Thanks for the kind words, Mrs. Clancey.  I’ve been seeing headlines about snowfall in Colorado.  Stay safe.  At least you folks up there are prepared for this kind of thing.

We’re way south of you, but apparently some gusty winds and cooler temperatures have headed our way from the outskirts of your storm.  I moved my seedlings back inside last night because of the winds.  They’re back out soaking up the 74 degree sunshine right now, but they’ll be coming in several nights this week because the temperatures are dropping into the forties.  I had planned to plant some out the last weekend in March, but looking at the extended forecast at this point, I think it might be April.


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## clancey

Yea it might be coming your way if it drops and swirls around--wind pretty bad but calming now. I think you should make little blankets and wrap your babies up even if you move them insides which your going to do----heck with this storm we are inside anyway so start making those baby seedling blankets--now each one wants one---kidding--keep safe and warm and be extra careful so as not to fall because this stuff is wet heavy and slippery with the cold...Enjoy..Mrs. Clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Yea it might be coming your way if it drops and swirls around--wind pretty bad but calming now. I think you should make little blankets and wrap your babies up even if you move them insides which your going to do----heck with this storm we are inside anyway so start making those baby seedling blankets--now each one wants one---kidding--keep safe and warm and be extra careful so as not to fall because this stuff is wet heavy and slippery with the cold...Enjoy..Mrs. Clancey



I really just mean the very edges of the weather system.  We’re not expecting any storm (definitely not snow or ice).  We’ll have no problem keeping warm.  It’s 77 in the house right now because of late afternoon sunshine and baking a pie for dinner.  It will be nice for the temperature to drop a bit.  The plants have been brought inside already, though.

Stay safe.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Its back to 16 here this morning.     Colder up north.    I'm done with winter.    I was looking at the beds yesterday planning my work for this spring.

Good thing is we had our first kitchen basil harvest from the hanging pot i seeded a bit ago.


----------



## tlc1976

15f here this morning. Lost a lot of snow but still got snowbanks and frozen dirt. But these pretty little things popped up behind the house. 6 total.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Nice!

Spring will be here soon!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We’ve been feeling like spring down here, warm days, cold(ish) nights.  I’m excited that my potatoes are growing some nice foliage, and more asparagus is popping up.

I have a question for fruit tree growers.  @begreen, @EatenByLimestone, I’d be grateful for advice about my peach.  We’ve been gradually cutting off overgrown and unproductive branches on this tree, and it has produced some nice new growth over the years.  Unfortunately a lot of that new growth was in full bloom when the big freeze hit Texas.  We figured we’d lose the crop, of course, but we’re wondering if the branches themselves are lost now.  Thankfully there’s a lot of new growth sprouting on the plant, but I have questions about how to handle the tips.

It’s a little hard to capture images of what I’m seeing, but here are a couple.  The first shows some green growth coming out beneath what I think is a freeze-damaged tip.  The second is a long branch we had been encouraging, and the whole branch looks dead.  There is new growth where the branch joins the much older branch at the bottom, but when I scratch the young branch there is no green showing.  I’m content to wait things out and leave the tree alone, but if I need to cut off the apparent damage for the good of the tree, I’ll certainly do it.  I’m just not quite sure what the best approach is.  I’ve googled dealing with freeze damage on peaches, but the advice isn’t quite tailored to my situation, so I was hoping one of you could give me some succinct practical advice.  I’d be grateful.




In very exciting news, I found the tiniest bit of growth on our large satsuma mandarin.  We had hoped that our protection had saved the trunk at least, but it’s so nice to see some confirmation of life, albeit tiny.  We have two other young citrus trees that may be goners, but we’re watching.  We’re hoping that our olives will come back from the roots.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

If the scratch doesn't show any green, I don't see how it'd be alive.    I'd find an inconspicuous branch and cut a piece that appears dead off.   Might as well make sure.   If the piece is dead, it's not going to hurt the tree, and if the tree is alive, hard pruning doesn't hurt it either.   

I still have to scalp mine for the year.   It always amazes me how destroyed it looks after a trimming, and then the next trimming, I'm cutting off inch and a half thick suckers.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> If the scratch doesn't show any green, I don't see how it'd be alive.    I'd find an inconspicuous branch and cut a piece that appears dead off.   Might as well make sure.   If the piece is dead, it's not going to hurt the tree, and if the tree is alive, hard pruning doesn't hurt it either.
> 
> I still have to scalp mine for the year.   It always amazes me how destroyed it looks after a trimming, and then the next trimming, I'm cutting off inch and a half thick suckers.



Thanks for the reply.

The tree itself is definitely alive.  It’s just that every single branch has freeze damage.  Some is just the tips.  Others it’s pretty much the whole thing.    When I read guidance about pruning, the articles stress that I should prune damaged branches all the way back to the start of the branch.  If I did that on all the damaged branches, I’d have nothing left, so I can’t do that.  I figure the next few weeks will show us a lot as sunlight and warmth are increasing so rapidly down here. 

 I’m hoping to see some growth on the cherry tree soon.  It was farther along than the peach tree before the storm, and I didn’t expect it to be harmed other than crop loss (which we don’t get anyway), but it hasn’t shown signs of new growth yet, so it is making me wonder.

Happily three of our four young pomegranates are leafing out.  The one that isn’t yet is closest to the north side of the house and gets less sun, but it is also the only one that had its freeze protection blow completely off during the high winds and snow.  I’m hopeful that it will leaf out on existing growth soon, but it might also put up from roots if it needs to.  I’m needing to exercise a lot of patience these days.  

I’m also exercising patience with my tomatoes.  Some have shot up to over a foot tall, but the forecast for next weekend shows some cool nights.  I’d like to plant them in the garden, but I also like temperatures to be a bit warmer when they make the transition, so I might have to wait on that, too.  We’ll see.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Its a tough time to plant stuff.   I planted in a warm spell last year and had a cold snap.   I had clear totes and such over the plants, but each day they were doing a bit worse and finally I gave up saving them.   The replanting went fine afterwords, lol.

All you can do is hang in there and wait until warmer weather.     With the tomatoes so tall, you can really plant them deep to get a great root system!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I definitely have a range of tomato sizes.  Some were started earlier than others, and I have a couple of dwarf varieties.  I took a few out of the tray to grab a photo.

The tall one is a determinate slicer called Big League that I tried last fall and worked pretty well for me.  The flavor wasn’t the best, but they were maturing in November, so I want to see how a spring planting does.  That plant has shot up to 15 inches recently.

The medium sized one is another determinate called Rio Grande that is supposed to be good for sauce and take the heat.  We’ll see.

The tiny one is a dwarf elongated cherry called Maglia Rosa.  It apparently can do well in containers, and so I’m interested in trying it out in more shaded conditions that my regular garden.  Now that our front porch is gated for deer I’m thinking of seeing how crops do there since it’s an eastern exposure.  (The tiny seedling was only planted about two weeks ago, and the reports are that the leaves are quite wispy, so I think it’s healthy, just small and scraggly by nature.)




When I was putting the tomatoes back in their regular spots on the plant cart, I noticed that the Rio Grande has the start of a flower bud.  I came in and checked the weather forecast, and it’s looking good right now for a Saturday planting date.  I hope the forecast doesn’t change.  (It’s been changing a lot.). I think for the really tall ones I’ll try trenching them along side their ollas and bringing them up near the trellis.

On a different note, here was a “harvest” of sorts today.  The garlic was from last summer, and these were the runts of the litter, so to speak.  I figured that we’d better use them up, and spaghetti sauce was the menu for lunch.  The brown leaves are freeze damaged bay from our young tree (overall, the tree is fine), but I figured they could still add flavor by simmering in the sauce.  The jalapeños we started last November inside.  They’ve been moving in and out in recent weeks because they grew too tall for lights, and I needed the area for seed starting.  The bright green leaves are some abundant new growth on a large Mexican Oregano (poliomintha longiflora) that stayed in mostly decent shape during the recent freeze because of its shelter near the western foundation of our house.  The one on the opposite side froze to the ground, but I think it will come back.



It’s sunny and supposed to go up to 74 today.  I definitely have spring fever.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I thought I’d repeat my offer of sending a sample of free Agi Red Artisan Tomato Seeds (an indeterminate saladette/large cherry hybrid) to gardeners who would like to try them.  I have more than I will use in my small garden and am happy to share.  (I got a free one-hundred pack when I ordered the Maglia Rosa seeds I mentioned above.  I was quite surprised since the breeder sent me more free seeds than seeds I had actually purchased.)


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those were my potatoes on Monday, the day before the hail storm.  Actually, though it was loud, there was very little damage.  The potatoes are twice as big now, I think, and yesterday and today my husband and I buried them in decayed mulch and topped that with fresher wood chips.  We got a bit of a late start on planting, so we’ll need to keep soil temperatures down later in the spring.  

The next shot is my Crawford lettuce that volunteered in December.  I buried it in leaves for the winter storm, and most of it survived.  We had a nice salad from it on Friday.  I have another patch of younger starts that is growing in nicely (after the cutworms got it at first).




The forecast has changed again for the coming week, so I’ve decided to keep the tomatoes out of the ground for now.  A forecast of several nights around 40 was too much for me, especially as revisions to the forecast are trending cooler.  The plants can wait a week (I hope).  This will be late for me, and it can be a rush to beat the heat when fruits are maturing.

My Chinese cabbage turned up with aphids, and they spread to my largest fish pepper.  The Chinese cabbage got neem oil sprayed underneath its leaves and on the soil.  The fish pepper isn’t in the ground, so it has had several rinses upside down under a faucet.  My plants are more spread out now to see if that will control the spread.  Thankfully I caught them when it was really just a few plants, and things look much better now.


----------



## clancey

Not much at gardening but the pictures are cool...What are those clay round things in the soil in the potato area and those little green sprouts are they the little potato leaves, or just weeds?...clancey....


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Not much at gardening but the pictures are cool...What are those clay round things in the soil in the potato area and those little green sprouts are they the little potato leaves, or just weeds?...clancey....



Those are pot saucers acting as lids for some clay pots buried in my raised beds.  They help keep the soil moist underneath surface.  We live in an arid climate (as you understand) with hot sun, and they’re kind of like my backup for keeping my plants alive.  The plants will actually grow their roots around them.  It’s fascinating at the end of the season to pull them up and see huge mats of roots on them.

I wrote my about it on last year’s thread, so I’ll try to link that here.





__





						2020 Garden Thread
					

Beware of garden trolls.




					www.hearth.com
				




The green is the potato leaves.  We planted seed potatoes at the end of February, and they’re all up now, though a couple are still small.  I hope they’ll do well for us.  I‘ve never tried to grow potatoes in Texas before.


----------



## clancey

Thanks for the previous thread and tomorrow I will do some reading on it when I get time...Potato's were very important to my family and I am just very curious on how to grow them..I thought maybe you just took one of those eyes and planted them in the soil but I will read the previous thread you brought up when I get time tomorrow and get back with you if I find something that interest me..Thanks clancey.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Thanks for the previous thread and tomorrow I will do some reading on it when I get time...Potato's were very important to my family and I am just very curious on how to grow them..I thought maybe you just took one of those eyes and planted them in the soil but I will read the previous thread you brought up when I get time tomorrow and get back with you if I find something that interest me..Thanks clancey.



The previous thread was about my watering system, and it applies to my whole garden, not specifically to the potatoes.  (It actually makes the underground more crowded for tuber growth, but I need them to maintain moisture.)

Potatoes are most commonly grown not from seeds but from “seed potatoes”—yes, it’s just a potato with eyes planted in the soil.  The new potatoes grow above that seed, and you have to keep them covered to protect the potatoes from sunlight.

Potatoes do produce abundant foliage.  The green leaves are how they photosynthesize to make their food, which is then stored underground in the tubers that we eat.  The plants should actually blossom, and they even can produce fruits which look like mini tomatoes, but they’re poisonous.  Potatoes and tomatoes are actually relatives.

I don’t know how my potatoes will do here in Texas.  It’s a completely different environment from what I‘m used to, and heat and drought complicated gardening.  Potatoes aren’t that difficult a crop, though.  You could start a few in a large container or even an old tire sitting on the ground.  The key is having room to fill it as the plant grows, but some of what you read on the internet about building up and up and up and producing endless potatoes from one seed seems exaggerated.  Moderate height is reasonable.

I went out and took a picture of my bigger mulched potato plants.  It’s amazing how much they grew this week.




We’re having some really high winds right now.  It has blown all sorts of things over outside.  I’m really glad the potatoes got mulched yesterday, and that we drove in spikes around the asparagus bed and put up twine to keep the ferns more upright.


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## clancey

They seem to be happy potato's and growing  and I can't wait until you get a potato and I never saw one grow from scratch and this is interesting...I like the picture as well.. Its really windy here right now and had to open up my gate and I hope your area is not too bad because of the baby plantings you have....thanks...did not read the other thread yet---lazy I am...clancey


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## clancey

Decent article about the Olla"s and never imagined such a thing and for me I think I would just do it the old way even though the Olla's are much better for the plants and they save water as well...Interesting thanks..clancey


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## begreen

The peas are in and coping with the cool spring weather. I have some lettuce started and spinach, but all would like the temps to come up 5 degrees.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The peas are in and coping with the cool spring weather. I have some lettuce started and spinach, but all would like the temps to come up 5 degrees.



Very nice.  What are your temperatures like these days?

We’ve had a cooler than average week this week, but it’s warming up tomorrow night, so I do plan to plant out my tomatoes tomorrow.   The extended April forecast for our area looks like most daytime temperatures will be in the 80’s (a few 70 in the early part of the month, but I also saw a spike above 90 this week) with nights in the high 50’s rising to 60’s.


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## begreen

We are in the 30s to low 40s at night and 50-60 during nicer days. A cold front coming through tomorrow will put us back in the low side of temps for a couple of days. I put a couple of broccoli plants out as a test. The rest are still in the greenhouse.


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## DuaeGuttae

That does seem cool, more like our winter temperatures, but we’re in a very different heat zone, of course.  Does La Niña make your area cooler?

I lost my last broccoli seedling that I was hardening off.  Between the freeze and the sun, I don’t think I’ll have many brassicas this spring.  There is one cabbage holding on in the garden, but I’m not optimistic.  I’m more pleased with the Chinese cabbage that I put in a planter a while back.  (They were getting root bound, but the night temperatures were still too cool, so I had to put them in something I could move inside.)  I did plant daikon seeds as well in hopes of making some kimchi.  So far only two have sprouted.

I did successfully plant out tomatoes today.  Thunder woke me this morning, and it continued until after noon.  (Lots of thunder but only a quarter inch of rain.)  That changed the schedule for the day, but the soil was still workable (even dry), and I wanted to get those tomatoes out.  Some were getting quite large.

Here’s an example of one plant that I put in using the “trench method.”  I took off the lower leaves, buried the roots deeply, and then buried the stripped stem on an upward angle and let the top come out near where I want the plant to grow.  Some of the smaller plants got the more traditional deep burying, but I thought that if I could encourage more roots near the ollas, it would help with giving the plant moisture.  We’ll see how they do.



These two beds hold about half of my tomatoes.  It’s nice having more room to plant more plants, but I may be regretting it when it heats up, and I’m watering all this space, especially if our drought continues or worsens.  (I know it’s still a very small garden compared to many of you.) 




I also put some pole bean seeds in the ground and transplanted some mint, roselle, and artichokes.  I’ve still got peppers, cucumbers, zucchini, and sweet potatoes waiting in the wings.  I’m waiting for a bit more heat for them.  This week may provide it.


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## begreen

Yes, they say that La Nina is keeping a persistent high-pressure system off the coast that is responsible for our cooler spring. Got up to 64 today!! I was outside waking up beds, fertilizing, planting, and starting a new bed. Planted potatoes, more peas, onions.

Your garden looks great. We are a month away from tomatoes and zucchini in the ground.


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## DuaeGuttae

La Niña tends to bring this area warmer, dryer winters.  It had been mild till February’s freeze, and it has mostly been mild since then.  This coming week is the first one where it’s going to be downright hot, so I’m glad to have my tomatoes in the ground in advance of that.  As I was watching the forecast creep hotter, I was thinking it might be time already to move my lettuce planter to more shade.  This coming week is an anomaly, though, and we shouldn’t have nineties after that for a while.

I don’t have any zucchini in the ground yet, and in fact I’ve had trouble germinating my zucchini this spring.  I have only one seedling hardening off, a second that has cotyledons, and two that might grow into something.  I had trouble last fall as well with these seeds as well as with a variety of pumpkin, and I attributed it to my difficulties with in-ground sowing during heat and drought.  Now that the remainder of the pack has been pretty poor with my inside seed-starting, I have to think that the seeds were not so good.   I haven’t tried the pumpkins again, but I’ll need to get to them soon. They were new seeds last summer, but the shipping was delayed for weeks somewhere between the seed company and my home.  Who knows what conditions they experienced?


----------



## begreen

Sounds like it will be good to try a different variety of zukes. I stopped starting zucchinis years ago. We only need 2 plants to have them coming out of our ears so buy them now from a local farmer. One green and one yellow. Maybe enquire at the local farmer's market and ask what varieties grow best in your region. 




__





						What to Grow through Very Hot Summers | Southern Exposure Seed Exchange
					

“Heat-tolerant” and “drought-tolerant” are phrases to look for when selecting the best varieties to grow where summers are very hot. Humidity, especially warm, humid nights, leads to fungal diseases, so it’s also good to look for fungal disease resistance. Some plants continue producing even...




					www.southernexposure.com
				




I'm making progress with the garden beds. I got 3 more prepped and the potatoes and onions planted. The new bed walls are now up and today we will start filling it with soil.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Sounds like it will be good to try a different variety of zukes. I stopped starting zucchinis years ago. We only need 2 plants to have them coming out of our ears so buy them now from a local farmer. One green and one yellow. Maybe enquire at the local farmer's market and ask what varieties grow best in your region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What to Grow through Very Hot Summers | Southern Exposure Seed Exchange
> 
> 
> “Heat-tolerant” and “drought-tolerant” are phrases to look for when selecting the best varieties to grow where summers are very hot. Humidity, especially warm, humid nights, leads to fungal diseases, so it’s also good to look for fungal disease resistance. Some plants continue producing even...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.southernexposure.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm making progress with the garden beds. I got 3 more prepped and the potatoes and onions planted. The new bed walls are now up and today we will start filling it with soil.




New bed?  Are you expanding your beautiful garden?  How much space do you have?  How much will you add?  Pictures?

I have already ordered and received different zucchini seeds from a different company, but I haven’t started any.  I’m only aiming for four seedlings, and I may get those with the current batch.  The ironic thing was that I was particularly seeking out seeds for a variety recommended by our local extension agent for fall growing, and I couldn’t find it locally, so I ordered it.  I’m hoping to have zucchini coming out my ears, but I haven’t managed so far.

In my pursuit of summer squash,  I’m also going to see if I can grow chayote/choko/mirliton/christophine on a huge arched trellis that’s not part of my vegetable garden.   It used to have passion flower vines, but I’m not optimistic that they survived the big freeze.  I have a couple fruits on my counter now, just waiting for the heat this week to warm the spot for planting them. 

I love Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.  They’re located near where I grew up, and they have great articles.  I was just reviewing their sweet potato advice this weekend.  Reading their stuff always makes me homesick, though.  Last year when I was searching for a particular variety of lettuce recommended by the local extension service for my area of Texas, they were one of the very few places where I could actually find seeds.  That lettuce has done really well for me this winter.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> New bed? Are you expanding your beautiful garden? How much space do you have? How much will you add? Pictures?


We have a couple acres, but a lot is sloped to the north. Not ideal for gardening. The new bed is raised and made with cement blocks. It is in one of the sunniest areas that was just grass, so it made sense to put it to better use. This will allow us to grow some more heat lovers. This year it will have some zucchinis, canteloupe, peppers, and eggplant in it. It's 16 ft long and has 64 planting holes on the perimeter. These will be planted with some carrots, onions, beets and flowers this year.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We have a couple acres, but a lot is sloped to the north. Not ideal for gardening. The new bed is raised and made with cement blocks. It is in one of the sunniest areas that was just grass, so it made sense to put it to better use. This will allow us to grow some more heat lovers. This year it will have some zucchinis, canteloupe, peppers, and eggplant in it. It's 16 ft long and has 64 planting holes on the perimeter. These will be planted with some carrots, onions, beets and flowers this year.
> 
> View attachment 277616



I like it, begreen.  Will you run drip irrigation to it?  Is that gate in the background part of deer fencing that will protect it?

I built a small cinderblock bed this spring.  It has 30 holes, and so far I’ve only filled three.  I have mint in two and oregano in one.  I have more herbs sprouting, including thyme and za’atar (a Syrian oregano), as well as some lavender.  I don’t think I’ll fill all the holes this spring, but I have thought that they would be a great place for leeks or onions in the winter.


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## DuaeGuttae

I posted early in February about two camellias I had received thanks to the generosity of our next door neighbor.  The white one bloomed in February just before the major freeze.  The red one had lots of tight buds.  

During the freeze I pushed the large terra cotta pots right up against our house and put other pots around them and covered each one with old bed sheets and shade cloth for extra insulation.  I left the backs open against the walls of our house.  Thankfully the plants and pots survived, and one bud on the red camellia that was probably up against the house lived, too.  It bloomed today.





I’m very thankful that there is healthy new growth on both of these despite some freeze damage here and there.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I like it, begreen. Will you run drip irrigation to it? Is that gate in the background part of deer fencing that will protect it?


Yes and yes. About half of the property is deer fenced. Gardening would be futile without it. I planted some beets in the holes today.


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## clancey

That pink flower is just beautiful and Begreen sure do keep your property very pretty and well maintained--lots of work for you two and I sure enjoy this little thread especially with such good ideas on how to live life to the fullest through gardening.. I have wondered how does that one deer fence keep deer out?  lol  clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Got a lot of the cooler weather stuff in yesterday.   Broccoli plantlets were put in.   Less than previous years... they got expensive!   Spinach, kale, and beans went in the ground.  Never had much luck with peas.   I think we go from too cold to too hot too fast.   Started the San Marzano tomatoes.  A bit late, but I'll make it up in volume of plants this year.   I need to change up the garden a bit.  I've got a 11 year old raised bed that rotted out.   As I've learned more about bed/sun placement and how I like to garden, it needs to be rotated 90°.


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## DuaeGuttae

I’ve got three volunteer sweet potatoes coming up.  I’m surprised, I will admit, especially after the winter they had here.




I’ve got other sweet potato slips growing in the house now, and I still need to amend the bed where they’ll go with compost.  I think I’ll have to move these because they’re in the long, narrow bed at the front of the garden where I’ve already put six determinate tomatoes, two dwarfs, and cilantro is growing.




We’re having nights back down into the forties this week.  My tomatoes, peppers, and even eggplant have buds and blossoms.  I’ve decided to let them go without protection.  It will be warm during the days.


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## clancey

What a pretty garden...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

The tomatoes will be fine unless it freezes.


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## EatenByLimestone

ok this is weird.   All my Egyptian walking onions are mowed flat to the ground.    The broccoli and chives next to them is untouched.    Garlic is untouched.   What the heck wants to eat onion greens.  Had to ask my wife if she did it!   Lol.


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## EatenByLimestone

It shouldn't be any long term harm unless it happens another few times, but its odd.

I've become completely fascinated with Egyptian walking onions.   Does anybody else grow them?


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> It shouldn't be any long term harm unless it happens another few times, but its odd.
> 
> I've become completely fascinated with Egyptian walking onions.   Does anybody else grow them?



I don’t grow them and don’t know what would mow them down and leave your other stuff.  Were the greens there or gone?  I did have cutworm damage on my onions this spring, and I found the culprits in the soil, but there were telltale bits of greenery on the surface.

I see Egyptian walking onions mentioned a lot.  Can you tell us more about them?  I was going to ask for pictures (I would love pictures of your garden anyway), but I guess they’re not too photogenic at the moment.


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## EatenByLimestone

I have 1 plant untouched, and there were a couple pieces laying flat on the ground.   But they are cut off at the ground.   Its really weird.  

I'll try to get some pics later today when the sun comes out.  A lot of it isn't in yet, there's a chance of snow tomorrow. *rolls eyes*  eventually spring will get here.

The Egyptian walking onions look like regular onions.  There's 1 bulb underground and it grows above normally.   Then it throws off a bunch of above ground pea sized onions up at the top!   Eventually the top gets to heavy and falls over, where the small top onions plant themselves and start over.    Hence the walking part.   They walk across the yard.


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## begreen

Your garden looks great DuaeGuttae. It shows a lot of care and attention. Mine is much more casual.


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## EatenByLimestone

It snowed yesterday.   It just didn't seem fitting to post pics of a garden covered in snow.   On the plus side, my tomatoe starts finally pushed through the soil.   Hopefully they grow fast and can get into the ground soon.

If BG`s garden is casual, mine is walmartesque.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Your garden looks great DuaeGuttae. It shows a lot of care and attention. Mine is much more casual.



Thanks, Begreen.  I’m not sure what is casual about your professional raised beds, but I appreciate the compliment.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> It snowed yesterday.   It just didn't seem fitting to post pics of a garden covered in snow.   On the plus side, my tomatoe starts finally pushed through the soil.   Hopefully they grow fast and can get into the ground soon.
> 
> If BG`s garden is casual, mine is walmartesque.



That’s a whole new word for me, and I’m not even sure what it conveys, but it made me laugh.

I wonder if your mowed down onions could have been cutworms.  My onion stalks are too thick for them at the moment, but I had a small cucumber just starting in the same bed, and it was cut off at soil level yesterday.   The foliage was just lying on the ground.  

When I had cutworms in the my lettuce bed, I sprinkled DE and surrounded the surviving lettuce and stalks with rings cut from toilet paper tubes (I actually had to open up the rings and use two spread wider to make my circles.). I don’t know which technique helped, or if both did, or if it was entirely coincidence, but the damage stopped in that area.  When I put out a replacement cucumber, I think I’ll just shove a small stick in the soil beside it.

We had another nice harvest of lettuce yesterday: a head of Rouge D’Hiver (not a well formed head, but good eating) and a bunch of leaves from Crawford.  I put in some dill, parsley, and green onion tops, and it was great.  We have enough for a second salad for six today.


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## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> That’s a whole new word for me, and I’m not even sure what it conveys, but it made me laugh.



I see such nice gardens on the board!   I have the Vozelgang box stove version of one, lol.

The sun came out between flurries for a little bit.  Here are the active beds so far.    So far the active stuff is:

Rhubarb
2 beds of garlic
2 beds of broccoli plantlets
1 bare, but planted bed of spinach, kale, and beans
1 tub of lettuce 
More rhubarb and horseradish.  
A bare looking bed that has gnawed off onions, lol.


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## EatenByLimestone

Looks like some uncut raspberry bushes made their way into the pics.


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking the pictures and posting them.  I think your garden looks just fine, just a bit older than mine, so it has a bit more age showing.  I also have the ”advantage” of drought.  The weeds do grow but less vigorously than they would otherwise.  You can see that even the area around the garden isn’t overgrown, and we haven’t done any trimming there in about nine months.  I particularly like how you have the little beds up against the fence at the end of your paths.

We miss rhubarb.  We had a few plants back in our little garden area in Virginia.  My third child was just five when we moved, and she was so sad to leave behind her “Rubikins.”  Yes, she had named her plant.  I bought some rhubarb seeds last year just for her, but we never got any germination in our fall garden.  We direct sowed the seeds and that doesn’t work well for me here.  We’ll try again at the end of the summer inside and see if we can get a winter crop of rhubarb.

Your garlic looks great.  Mine failed to come up at all this year, the only time I’ve ever had that happen.   (Well, actually there may be two puny plants out of a whole bed.)

How many beds do you have?  How big is each?  There must be some more available space because you mention having a lot of San Marzano tomatoes started.


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## EatenByLimestone

Oh, there's always more beds, but they look horrible before I plant.  The bed that's all bowed out and literally falling apart is the one I wanted to replace this year.    With the silly lumber prices I'll wait.  I haven't done much with that bed in the last couple years.  I had about 1/2 of it volunteer dinosaur kale.   I'm going to plant all of it in tomatoes this year.    I bought a Squeezo a couple years ago and haven't had the chance to dirty it, lol.  

I made the mistake of amending with some weed filled compost a couple years ago.    I need to smother an asparagus bed and restart it.   The 2 new parallel beds surrounded with hardware cloth were a product of this soil.  I think I'm going to have to plastic them.  They were once strawberry beds.   The weeds choked them out and I planted onions there last year.  I'll be putting tomatoes in the plastic here too.   Weeds are a horrible thing.


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## begreen

Nothing to apologize about with those beds. Ours look tired before I start working on them in spring too. They're definitely better than the walmartesque, vogelzang variety. More like an older Avalon stove I would say. And better looking than our old beds that are heading into retirement.


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## DuaeGuttae

It was a big work day in the garden today.  I had hoped for some good rain yesterday, but most of it missed us, so I spent a long time giving the beds a good soaking (with my watering cans).  I also shoveled out some partially decomposed wood chip mulch that I didn’t want to bury in the bed where I was going to put sweet potatoes.  My husband picked up some aged manure compost for me, and so we put that down where the mulch had come out. 

 I planted two varieties of sweet potatoes (both unknown).  The palmate leaves are ones that grew too early in Virginia for my mother to plant, so she mailed them to me.  The cordate leaves are slips I grew from a grocery store potato.  The slips look pretty droopy because they were still getting afternoon sun when I put them in, but I think they’ll perk up fast.  When they start growing, I’ll try to put the mulch back on.  (It’s sitting in a cart outside the garden.)



While my husband was hauling buckets of compost from the trailer to the garden for me, I broke the bottom-most leaves off of most of my tomatoes to give them a bit more air.  The two sweet million plants were showing some tiny fruit.




I also put in six seeds of Heavy Hitter Okra in a different bed.  If it comes up well, it means that almost all of my crops will be planted for now.  I did soak and sprout the seeds before planting.  Heavy Hitter is a recently released type that is supposed to branch heavily and produce lots of pods per plant.  We enjoyed our okra last year, but I really wanted more than I was able to grow.  We’ll see if I can get Heavy Hitter to yield well.   I’m sure it will take lots of water. 

I had hoped to weed around the two olive trees that survived our freeze.  All the top growth was killed, but these two are growing out from the roots.  A third hasn’t grown out yet.  I need to prune the dead branches and get the weeds out to make sure that they don’t compete with the olives.  It will have to wait for another day, though.


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## begreen

Looking good. No okra growing here. Do you get enough fruit to harvest the olives?


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## Montanalocal

Here are my cabbage family seedlings.  There are 72 pots of cabbages, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and cauliflower.  I seeded them April 1, and plan to plant them out around May 15.  Mt garden is still covered with snow and my last frost free date is June 15.


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## EatenByLimestone

I have 2 packs of okra that need to go in.   I'll have to wait until it stops snowing, lol.    


I'm jealous of your growling setup!   That looks great!


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## Montanalocal

Yea, I have developed a system over the years to grow my own transplants.  I like to start with 42mm peat pellets.  They come in a small wafer that expands when wet into a nice one inch starting medium that just fits 4 rows of 4 each into a 9 X 9 aluminum cake pan.  

I cover them with foil and set them on a heat mat and the first sprouts appear within 2 days.  Then they go under the lights, as close as you can get them.

It is important to always keep the tops of the plants as close to the lights as possible, as the light diminishes 4 time with every doubling of the distance away.

After 2 weeks the roots start to come out the sides of the peat pellets, so I transplant into 4” pots.  One great thing about the pellets is there is no transplant shock.  

The other thing I do is to leave my grow lights on day and night.  I think it helps them grow better and not get leggy.

Amazon product


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## begreen

Phooey. The weather took a turn toward chillier and these plants want to get into the ground.


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## DuaeGuttae

Montanalocal said:


> Here are my cabbage family seedlings.  There are 72 pots of cabbages, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and cauliflower.  I seeded them April 1, and plan to plant them out around May 15.  Mt garden is still covered with snow and my last frost free date is June 15.
> 
> View attachment 278132
> View attachment 278133



Those look very nice.  We had a similar one light system in our basement workroom in our home in Virginia. I like how you use support underneath to get the seedlings closer to the lights.

I had a few brassicas this winter that were doing well until February‘s freeze.  I replanted a few after that, but broccoli and cauliflower never took off.  I think they really do better in the fall here as the spring goes from cold to hot to cold to hot so much.

When is your first frost in the fall usually?  It must be a pretty short season.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Phooey. The weather took a turn toward chillier and these plants want to get into the ground.
> View attachment 278139



Those sure do look like they want to go out.  I hope the chill won’t last too long.  Are these the plants for your new cinder block bed?  I just added a few new herb transplants to mine.  I’m really hoping they take, especially the za‘atar as I only got one good seedling to go out.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Those sure do look like they want to go out.  I hope the chill won’t last too long.  Are these the plants for your new cinder block bed?  I just added a few new herb transplants to mine.  I’m really hoping they take, especially the za‘atar as I only got one good seedling to go out.


They are for all the beds. The new bed will get some peppers, eggplants, and maybe a zucchini or tomato. Haven't decided yet.


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## Montanalocal

DuaeGuttae said:


> Those look very nice.  We had a similar one light system in our basement workroom in our home in Virginia. I like how you use support underneath to get the seedlings closer to the lights.
> 
> I had a few brassicas this winter that were doing well until February‘s freeze.  I replanted a few after that, but broccoli and cauliflower never took off.  I think they really do better in the fall here as the spring goes from cold to hot to cold to hot so much.
> 
> When is your first frost in the fall usually?  It must be a pretty short season.



Yes, we have a short season.  First frost is around Sept. 15, which gives us a 90 day growing season.  Root crops, brassicas, onions do quit well.  One thing I do is plant my carrots in the late fall.  They come up much earlier than when planted in the spring.

Shifting the bottom supports to raise and lower the seedlings is vastly easier than trying to change the chains on the lights.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Looking good. No okra growing here. Do you get enough fruit to harvest the olives?



The olive trees were only planted two years ago as young seedlings, so they were too young to bear fruit yet.  It’s my understanding that they can bear in this climate.  We don’t have plans to have major olive harvests, but I would love to be able to brine a couple of jars. 

My youngest son’s favorite food is probably black olives, and so when we moved to Texas his older siblings suggested that we plant olives for him.  The trees were his third birthday present.  Thankfully the one Koroneiki variety we had is coming back.  We need to replace an Arbequina that died, but those are the most easily available.  The other variety that survived is a Mission.

I took a couple of photos this morning of the itty bitty olive growth that’s coming back.  The trees were small before the freeze (above my knee), but now it’s just six inches of growth.  They’re surrounded by a circle of wire fencing to protect them from the deer (the second one got broken badly by a deer when it was younger), and I do need to get in there to weed.





Our large satsuma mandarin is also going to be much smaller this year.  It used to have an eighteen foot diameter canopy, but now it’s just a bunch of sprouts up the lower trunks.  The good news is that this is all growth above the graft.  This one was covered and heated by incandescent lightbulbs during the freeze, so we’re very thankful that there’s some hope for it.  Two of our six citrus trees died, but they were much younger and were covered but didn’t have lightbulbs.




We also had a mature cherry tree that seems to have died.  It was fully leafed out before the freeze, and we never really imagined that it was in danger.  We’re used to cherries living through freezes just fine where we both grew up, but of course this tree never really went dormant, and its branches froze.  It tried putting out new leaves here and there, but they shriveled up and died.  It had been a really beautiful tree that we could see from our kitchen/dining room windows.


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## begreen

I have an arbequina that is in a pot. It had one olive last year. I'm thinking of putting it in the ground this year. It's about 4ft tall and robust, but getting pot bound.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I have an arbequina that is in a pot. It had one olive last year. I'm thinking of putting it in the ground this year. It's about 4ft tall and robust, but getting pot bound.



We debated pots for both citrus and olives as we are on the edge of their hardiness zones, and we knew they would need winter protection when they were young.  We wanted them as part of the landscaping, though, and to reach their mature sizes.  I also just didn’t think I could handle watering so many large pots in the Texas heat.

I would think your climate would be pretty good for an olive in the ground, though I know you get cold snaps, too.  How old is your four-foot tree?  

  We had plans to expand our line of olives all up and down the fence line on the south of our property.  There used to be an olive ranch south of San Antonio that sold inexpensive seedlings and gave free tours, and we wanted to go on a family trip there.  We had it planned for my son’s fourth birthday, but that fell in the middle of the Covid shutdown last year, and they never reopened to the public.  Sadly the owner just passed away last month from cancer, and the ranch is shutting down.


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## begreen

I've lost two young olives before this during below-freezing spells so I let this one get a couple years older. It's about 5 or 6 yrs old now.  Will try it in a more sheltered location.


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## Woodsplitter67

here's some of the stuff I have in the greenhouse.. Ill be planting in a week or 2. This past Thursday it was 35 in the morning. Got tomato,onion,carrots, eggplant peppers and more


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## begreen

Woodsplitter67 said:


> here's some of the stuff I have in the greenhouse.. Ill be planting in a week or 2. This past Thursday it was 35 in the morning. Got tomato,onion,carrots, eggplant peppers and more


They look nice and healthy. Onions and carrots can go in the ground now. I sowed my carrot seeds outdoor a month ago and they have sprouted now. Onions have been in the ground for a few weeks now.


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## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> They look nice and healthy. Onions and carrots can go in the ground now. I sowed my carrot seeds outdoor a month ago and they have sprouted now. Onions have been in the ground for a few weeks now.



 I'm not done my garden yet.. My son and I moved it this spring. I am making a Dedicated wood processing area and had to move ALOT of stuff. The back of the property held alot of water and this is where my wood stuff is going.. Im accumulating alit of wood and all that goes with it


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## begreen

3 more beds prepped and ready. Cabbages and kale in the ground now. It looks like I will be doing a lot of transplanting later in the week. Ready to start green beans and corn sprouting.


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks for reminding me, @begreen.  I intended to sprout some corn tonight.  I have some older seeds I want to use up.  We did not have good success last year (who knew that fire ants actually eat corn kernels?), but I have seed and a little space, so I want to see what I can do.

Does transplanting later in the week mean you’ll get to put out your heat lovers?


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## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> here's some of the stuff I have in the greenhouse.. Ill be planting in a week or 2. This past Thursday it was 35 in the morning. Got tomato,onion,carrots, eggplant peppers and more
> View attachment 278159
> View attachment 278160
> View attachment 278161
> View attachment 278162
> View attachment 278163
> View attachment 278164



Those are looking really nice.   I hope you have some good weather coming up for getting the garden in.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Thanks for reminding me, @begreen.  I intended to sprout some corn tonight.  I have some older seeds I want to use up.  We did not have good success last year (who knew that fire ants actually eat corn kernels?), but I have seed and a little space, so I want to see what I can do.
> 
> Does transplanting later in the week mean you’ll get to put out your heat lovers?


Yes, for the tomatoes, squash & cukes. Peppers and eggplant will be in a couple weeks.


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## EatenByLimestone

I'll be able to set my tomatoes, zucs, squash, and basil out side today to get real sun.


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## Woodsplitter67

I'll have the door to the greenhouse open for the next 3 days.. its warm out


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## DuaeGuttae

I love it when my seedlings start to get fresh air and real sunshine.  I always feel like they have little milestones: first time outside, first whole day outside, first night outside, and that sort of thing.

Last night my garden had a milestone of sorts: first major rainstorm of the season.  We really needed it.  We got about an inch and a half of rain, and thankfully we were spared the hail and possible tornadoes that hit really hard in areas quite close to us.  (We spent time sheltering in our small interior  hallway last evening, but the most violent storms missed us.)  The garden was a bit beaten down this morning (potato stalks beaten down and even broken in places and onions lying down not due to maturity but wind and rain), but I was very pleased that tomatoes I had worked on trellising as well as a few cucumbers and pole beans had remained up.


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## begreen

Tomatoes are planted.


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## clancey

They look beautiful when will get one? What is that big white metal fence type thing for ?...Can I get one of your tomatoes mailed to me? lol  good for you...as you see I know very little about gardening but a well kept spot is a beautiful one...Sounds like DuaeGuttae had a hell of a storm--how scary.. I saw the moon two nights ago early in the morning about 3am and it was huge and made me think of your gardens with their little leaves stretch out to the moon...Get funny thoughts in the wee of the morning...lol  clancey


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## begreen

The white structure is just a pvc pipe frame to support and contain the cherry tomatoes.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Tomatoes are planted.
> 
> View attachment 278313



Is that an artichoke in the background?  If so, what kind of harvests do you get?

My garden is small enough that I don’t want to give up the space for an artichoke inside the fence, but I agreed to try to grow some outside the garden area because my oldest child really wanted to grow some.  We germinated a few seeds inside this winter but only got two seedlings to plant out.  The deer pulled one up but only nibbled the other.  They’ve left it alone since.  

I think an armadillo may have gotten into my garden the night before last.  When I checked it yesterday morning, I found holes in my sweet potato bed and one of the pathways.




Thankfully the plants weren’t fatally disturbed, and I rebedded the slips.  I didn’t see an obvious point of entry around the fence line, but I’ll need to investigate more.  I don’t want this kind of digging to continue.


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## clancey

Do you have any squirrels? clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

My tomatoes starts got hammered, I think by the weather.  I'm hoping they make it.   I never have the luck I want with tomato seeds.


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Do you have any squirrels? clancey


 
I do.  Too many.  Last year we started trapping them because they were stealing tomatoes and fruit, and something chewed electrical wiring in our back yard as well.  We quit trapping over the winter, but I think we’ll have to pick back up again.  These holes were pretty big.  I think an armadillo was probably digging for grubs or skink eggs.  It was the typical cone-shaped armadillo hole, and there was a lot of earth moved.

In between thunderstorms today, my husband and I went out and checked on the garden.  No new holes.  We also added some new zip ties to secure our deer fence to our rabbit fence in more places, and made the poly mesh on the outside more secure as well.  An armadillo could dig under the fence, but I didn’t see any spot where that had happened.  I’m not sure if this one climbed the rabbit fence and slipped through a gap or pushed in at the gate or what.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> My tomatoes starts got hammered, I think by the weather.  I'm hoping they make it.   I never have the luck I want with tomato seeds.



Was it sun, cold, wind, rain?

I know if I push hardening off, I can easily lose seedlings.  What do you think went wrong?

You still have, what, four or six weeks till you can plant out?  Can you start some more?


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## EatenByLimestone

probably a combination of cold and rain.   Its a fight with them.   I want to get them in the sun, but its still a bit cool.    Keep them inside too long and they get leggy.  I've tried raising them in high containers and filling them up around the plant as it gets leggy.    That works OK, but isn't really ideal.

I need to build a light setup like was posted above.    I lost the room id do it in to my wife for her office.   She's been home since last March.


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## EatenByLimestone

I'm hoping they recover.   I've had volunteer tomatoes pop up multiple years, I guess I can thank the squirrels for that.      They just seem so finicky.


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## clancey

Thought I share this with your gardeners.. I have so many boulders in my driveway right now needing to be taken away I found this idea.
Sorry about the double picture but I just thought it was neat to have a garden in...clancey


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'm hoping they recover.   I've had volunteer tomatoes pop up multiple years, I guess I can thank the squirrels for that.      They just seem so finicky.


Sorry about the tomatoes Matt. I hope they recover. Maybe cloche them or create a temporary tent out of remay to protect them from the elements for a couple of weeks? Some folks use water walls to create a locally warmer environment. We did that for a while several years back. 

We get volunteer tomatoes almost every year. I just pull them. They typically will survive in the compost or sometimes just on the ground. I pull them because I have no idea of their heritage. If they are from a hybrid then they could turn out undesirable.



DuaeGuttae said:


> Is that an artichoke in the background? If so, what kind of harvests do you get?


Yes, it is a purple artichoke in a large tub. My wife asked for it, but last year she never harvested the chokes and they went to flower. It looked more like a cardoon than an artichoke at that point.

Squash plants are now in the ground. Looking ok. The two experimental cukes are weathering outside for 2 weeks now, but I can tell they want the soil to warm up more. I transplanted my other greenhouse cukes into larger 6" pots and will wait another week or two before putting them in the ground. They are over 18" tall at this point and needed to be staked.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I need to build a light setup like was posted above.    I lost the room id do it in to my wife for her office.   She's been home since last March.



We could do what we do when people are looking to install a stove: ask for a floor plan and pick a great spot for a grow light set up.  

Even with good lights, my plants seem happier when they get outside.  I have the opposite problem, though, in that the sun can burn them up at the beginning if I’m not careful.  This year I actually moved an old plastic doghouse that was left behind by previous owners up to my deck and would put some plants inside it for their first exposure to outside.  I take hardening off very slowly these days (weeks), but I’m home during the day, so that is easier than for someone who isn’t.  I do get tired of moving plants in and out, though.  I like it much better when they can go in the ground.

I hope your seedlings bounce back. If some do and others don’t, though, you could take some cuttings of the stronger ones and root them to increase your numbers.


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## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, I imagine tomato suckers would root quickly and easily.   I have a jar of hormodin 1 that could help it along.

I got home last night and found munching in my broccoli.    I think I found where they (bunnies I think) got in.    I can't catch a break this year!    Broccoli should be fine though.   They'd been in for a couple weeks and should be well rooted.

It looks like I should be fine.  There are enough plants that still look healthy.  There are enough zucchini,  squashes, and cokes to keep me busy otherwise.


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## clancey

Now I know this is a stupid suggestion but had to ask anyway...Why not put hard wire around your garden so that the critters can't get in as well as a sort of screening material that you can put on top to keep the sun from burning up the little plants.? I do not garden but wonder why you are not attempting to solve the problem of moving plants in and out because of some hardening or something...


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## EatenByLimestone

There is ac2 foot high fence that usually discourages things.  Every once in a while they will find or make their way under it.   

You never win against nature long term.   But you do get a win here and there.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> There is ac2 foot high fence that usually discourages things.  Every once in a while they will find or make their way under it.
> 
> You never win against nature long term.   But you do get a win here and there.



Right now I’m losing against the armadillo(s).  I spent yesterday morning repairing damage, and we relocated the traps to what we though might be an entry point.  This morning was worse.

There was digging in my tomato bed.  I think the tomatoes will be fine, but it completely uprooted my young cilantro. 



This was the second morning that my onion/cucumber/pepper bed got dug up.  I think I’m going to lose definitely one, probably two, possibly three of my four hybrid cucumber plants.  I’m sad because these were my last four seeds of my favorite variety.


The sweet potatoes are a regular target.  They have handled it, but I don’t think that they (or I) can take much more.



We think the armadillos can slip through the 4 x 4 square holes at the top of our rabbit fencing before the deer fencing starts.  We’re going to work to remove one set of fencing and replace it with another.  (Meanwhile we have two traps baited with huge grubs, but so far our trappping hasn’t been successful.)

In happy news, my zucchini is starting to produce female flowers.  I’m hand pollinating, and hope the squash will grow.  If an armadillo uproots my beautiful plants that survived our recent hail (we got a storm Monday, but just the very edge.  It split in two and went north and south of us.), I’ll be pretty upset.

@EatenByLimestone, how are your tomato seedlings doing?


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## begreen

That's a bummer. Have you tried a basic, low wire electric fence? I am surprised that you are able to grow cilantro. That is a cool weather plant for us. As soon as summer's heat kicks in it wants to bolt. 

Got the corn started today. It's been soaking to sprout for 2 days, now it's in small flats. Hope to plant it in 2 weeks.


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## EatenByLimestone

Can you lay a screen of 1/2" hardware cloth over the existing fence?     A zip tie every so often might be enough to hold it up.   

The tomato plants are pretty unchanged.    I have really small real leaves on them, but its slow going.    Its supposed to get down in the 30s tonight  again.  The weather is brutal this year.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That's a bummer. Have you tried a basic, low wire electric fence? I am surprised that you are able to grow cilantro. That is a cool weather plant for us. As soon as summer's heat kicks in it wants to bolt.
> 
> Got the corn started today. It's been soaking to sprout for 2 days, now it's in small flats. Hope to plant it in 2 weeks.



It is a bummer.  I’m particularly bummed about the cucumbers, but I’m also worried about what else it might damage in the future.  It’s been in the asparagus bed a bit, but thankfully hasn’t dug much, but we really want to keep it out.  We couldn’t do major fence work tonight as it was too dark, but we surrounded the entire garden with new fencing and moved some poly mesh to try to add an extra barrier.  We’ll see what happens tonight.

We haven’t tried an electric fence.  We don’t have electricity at that part of the property, and I don’t have the best memories of electric fences from my childhood.  (Not trauma from being shocked but more memories of how often they shorted out or had problems.  They may be much better now.)

I have been surprised at my cilantro, too.   It’s a variety named Caribe that is supposed to be slower to bolt. This is my second planting as the first did bolt, but it had been growing since January, so I can’t complain. I know it doesn’t like heat, but even one plant produces more than we can use in my household, so I figure I can see if I can germinate another to replace this one and see what it will do since we’re pretty warm these days.  It is in one the first spots in my garden to get afternoon shade.

I was laughing at my corn the other day, saying, “Knee high by the fourth of May.”  It’s really only about two inches tall, but the pots I planted it in are very tall.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Can you lay a screen of 1/2" hardware cloth over the existing fence?     A zip tie every so often might be enough to hold it up.
> 
> The tomato plants are pretty unchanged.    I have really small real leaves on them, but its slow going.    Its supposed to get down in the 30s tonight  again.  The weather is brutal this year.



Do the tomatoes come inside for the 30’s or do you somehow protect them?

I looked at hardware cloth and did lots of calculations to figure out the best way to spend our money.   Because it isn’t easy to get in long lengths, and we would need quite a bit, it added up to more than we wanted to spend, and it wouldn’t let us reuse other materials. We need more fencing for other places on our property, so it made more sense for us to buy a one-foot taller upper fence, so we can reclaim the four-foot one and put it to use elsewhere.  I was able to get a marked-down roll today.

I also got a length of “cage wire” which is similar to hardware cloth but not as fine.  It has one-by-one holes, and we used it to replace the poly mesh on the gate because we worried that an animal could push under the mesh too easily.   Everything is just temporary at this point as we haven’t done the actual replacement, but we tried to surround the whole garden with an extra barrier for the night.


----------



## begreen

There are many battery and solar powered electric fence options. I have a portable one by Havaheart that works on D-cell flashlight.  batteries. With conventional fencing do armadillos dig under it? If so it will take a close mesh 2" fencing at bent at a right angle so that at least a foot lays flat on the ground where the critter wants to dig. 
We easily make knee-high corn by the 4th of July. 4th of May? No way.


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## EatenByLimestone

How long of a length of hardware cloth do you want?    We order them in 50' lengths all the time.   The 100' lengths are too heavy and awkward.

I bring the tomatoes inside when it gets cold.   Around 8am it should be up to the low 40s and ill put them back out, or have my wife do it a bit later after I leave for work.


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## EatenByLimestone

Check building supply places for the hardware cloth.    I'm not sure what roofers do with it,  but they must use a lot of it.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> There are many battery and solar powered electric fence options. I have a portable one by Havaheart that works on D-cell flashlight.  batteries. With conventional fencing do armadillos dig under it? If so it will take a close mesh 2" fencing at bent at a right angle so that at least a foot lays flat on the ground where the critter wants to dig.
> We easily make knee-high corn by the 4th of July. 4th of May? No way.



The animal got back into the garden last night, though there was more digging in areas outside the fence and less inside.   The digging outside the fence doesn’t actually go underneath the fence, so it’s still not clear to me just how it is entering.  

Armadillos can dig under fencing, but our land has so much bedrock so close to the surface, that it would not be easy  even for an armadillo.  The area where our garden is has been sheet mulched, though, so it is a bit softer than the rest of the property.  We have mulch inside the entire garden as well as outside the perimeter most everywhere.

We like that idea of putting mesh on the ground bent at a right angle.  We even talked about taking down our rabbit fencing and using it in such a way.  We’ll be working the project tomorrow if we can.  It will be a lot of work, but I really want to keep this animal out of my garden before it does more harm.




I’m also including a picture of my corn just to clarify my ”knee high by the 4th of May” joke.  The pot in which I planted the seeds is higher than my knee.  The corn is quite small.  Thankfully the armadillo (if that’s what it is) can’t get that high.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Check building supply places for the hardware cloth.    I'm not sure what roofers do with it,  but they must use a lot of it.



Thanks for the advice.  I’d been checking places like Home Depot and Tractor Supply where ten foot lengths are more common.   We’d need fifty if we covered the open area or a bit over 100 if we wanted to replace the poly mesh which we suspect of being able to be pushed aside too easily.   I did find a builders supply place in San Antonio that does stock longer rolls, but they are more pricey than I want right now.  I think everything is more pricey than I really want, of course.  I’ll do more investigation.

I’ve long wanted to cover the top of my blueberry cube with hardware cloth for extra protection against hail.  It’s funny the things I dream of doing.


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## DuaeGuttae

Guess who came out to play this evening when we were (still) working on beefing up our fencing situation?




  I had suspected that they were living under our shed (it’s not on a slab), and we now know some entry points.  (We had moved shredded palm leaves all along or suspect place, and so we could see where they came out by seeing where they pushed the leaves away).  Traps are set, though we actually watched one go into the big trip, and it apparently didn’t weigh enough to trigger the pressure plate.  Once these guys are gone, we’ll have more work to do to make that area inaccessible to future residents.  @EatenByLimestone, is this when I need to buckle down and get hardware cloth, or is there something else preferable?  (There has been a skunky odor near the shed recently, so I actually stayed up late last night reading about those and was thinking maybe I was having skunk rather than armadillo problems.   I don’t want to invite something else to take up residence in such a convenient spot.)

We did rearrange our garden fencing today.  We pulled all the mulch away from the perimeter to expose the hard ground, took all the current fencing down, folded the four inches squares from the top of the rabbit fencing to make them two-inch tall rectangles, then put that flat on the ground going out from the fence.   That still gave us the smaller mesh going upright at the bottom of the garden.  We put five-foot horse fencing on top of that and zip-tied the two fences together.




The armadillos looked awfully small to me, and I think they could have fit in a four-inch square perhaps.  Those are now gone, and I sure hope to find my garden undisturbed in the morning.  I’m so tired from all that fence pulling that even my fingers ache.

I do have one zucchini growing, and I hand pollinated two others this morning.


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## EatenByLimestone

If they are living under the shed, it's easy to exclude them from under it.   We do this in 2 ways.

The easiest way, and what gives the most finished look is to wrap the bottom in hardware cloth and then pour stone over the base.  If you have stone in other areas around the house it turns the exclusion into a landscaping feature.   This also works with mulch.    

The 2nd way is to dig a channel around the shed and lay the hardware cloth in, then backfill.      I'll try to find some examples once my phone charges, lol.

There's another product, called dig defense, that you put in with a hammer.   Its more expensive though.   We really don't use it much anymore.


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## EatenByLimestone

I dont have many pics of before and after of specific jobs, but these will tell how we do them.

I had to take screen shots off our FB page.   They show how we lay out the hardware cloth and then pour on stone.


After that, are the trenches we had to dig for a different job.   Same idea, but the mesh us buried.


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## clancey

I would do it another way and what I do for my fly pen to keep diggers out is to make a strip of about 4 inches or more and pour concrete into it...I use hard wire about 1/4 of an inch to keep other creatures out of my fly loft-smallest size you can get and its metal..Then I would drape some cloth overhead that sun can come through but might have it shaded a bit so the little sprigs won;t burn...like a screen of some sort but easy for you all to put on maybe hinges or something???..Your garden will come back and be just beautiful...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

We’ll, we’ve had two nights now without further damage in the garden, so it seems that the improved fencing really is an improvement.  We haven’t had two digging free nights since the digging started.  The armadillos are still living under the shed.  We’re working on trapping them, but they haven’t sprung the traps so far.  I don’t want to begin any exclusion project until they are not under the building, of course.  

@EatenByLimestone, thanks for the advice and for taking the time to find pictures for us.   We‘ll have to dig (quite literally) in the area to see if we can make any sort of trench.  First, however, I think we need to pull off an old wooden walkway that is probably hiding some good access points (though not the only ones).  I’m feeling less urgency now that the garden seems to be more secure, but we need to figure it out.  It’s quite a big shed, so it will be quite a project, especially as the heat is moving in.


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## EatenByLimestone

Trap right against the shed.  Leave a spot open in the trench work to install the trap.


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## EatenByLimestone

3ftx50ft 1/2" hardware cloth rolls are $60 at our supplier.


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## clancey

That"s expensive wire I admit and I did my whole "loft and fly pen" with that wire. And beside that I used strips of scrap wood so that when you put it up --the bad side might scratch you so I put wood over it in strips to be safe...But it keeps out garden eaters and you can make little gates to where you can open up your area easy,,,Just need to figure out the top portion so that it is easy to put on when you need it maybe for small baby plants where you could put a cloth on top to make it more shady for the young ones--maybe then you would not have to bring them in the house and have them get used to the sun out there..Also dig a strip around and pour some concrete in it so they won't dig into the area.. That's the best I can think of for I am no gardener but enjoy other peoples experiences with it...I like tomatoes..clancey


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## clancey

The Love of Gardening
					

A well-tended garden is a draw to many



					www.jacquielawson.com


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## EatenByLimestone

We go through a lot of hardware cloth.    I now have six 3x50 rolls of 1/2" and two 3x50 rolls of quarter in in my inventory.  


I prepared 4 more beds today.   Yesterday I planted 4 containers with okra.  I decided to try something new and soaked a bunch of okra seeds yesterday and all of today.  Today they went into the ground.    Maybe they'll germinate faster.   

Tomatoes are hinting at getting closer to plant.   The bed is prepared for them.   They are frustratingly slow at maturing.

My cukes, zuchs, and squash are ready to go in the ground, but the evenings are still in the 40s.   I think it'll be warm enough by next week.  Everything is all hardened off, just waiting for the weather to catch up!

I saw an asparagus that had popped up.  Finally!  They seem late for this year!   The rhubarb is getting big.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> We go through a lot of hardware cloth.    I now have six 3x50 rolls of 1/2" and two 3x50 rolls of quarter in in my inventory.
> 
> 
> I prepared 4 more beds today.   Yesterday I planted 4 containers with okra.  I decided to try something new and soaked a bunch of okra seeds yesterday and all of today.  Today they went into the ground.    Maybe they'll germinate faster.
> 
> Tomatoes are hinting at getting closer to plant.   The bed is prepared for them.   They are frustratingly slow at maturing.
> 
> My cukes, zuchs, and squash are ready to go in the ground, but the evenings are still in the 40s.   I think it'll be warm enough by next week.  Everything is all hardened off, just waiting for the weather to catch up!
> 
> I saw an asparagus that had popped up.  Finally!  They seem late for this year!   The rhubarb is getting big.



I just had to replant one okra seed after part of that bed got dug up.  After @begreen talked about sprouting corn seeds last year, I started employing that method on some of my bigger seeds, most particularly corn and okra.  I soak for about twenty four hours, then keep them in a damp paper towel in a glass jar in a warm place until I see the roots starting.  It really helps me have better germination.  I think I had 29 of 30 corn seeds come up this year, and they’re four years old, which is pretty old for corn.   That one okra seed took over a week to sprout in the paper towel, though, and it was a fresh seed.  

We harvested our first zucchini on Monday night.  I have several more on the various plants.  I’m looking forward to having a meal with them.

I wish I could send you tomato suckers, @EatenByLimestone.  I pruned my tomatoes again on Monday.  (We were expecting storms, and I wanted to eliminate more lower foliage.  I had mulched earlier, but the armadillos basically tilled all that mulch back into my soil unfortunately.  I hope it won’t tie up too much nitrogen.)  I pulled some beautiful suckers off my plants, and I actually set them aside in water because my neighbors are in danger of losing all their plants, so these can be replacements if they need them.  I sank the jars of water into an old pot to keep them stable and put it under a table on our deck because the forecast Monday was for thunderstorms with high winds and hail.  In light of the hail forecast, I put up my shade cloth early.  Thankfully we didn’t have hail.





Back to the topic of hardware cloth, why 1/2 inch versus 1/4 inch?  I actually have some extra 1 inch fencer wire and was thinking of getting more of that.  Would that be a mistake?  What do you use for fasteners?

So far the armadillos have stayed out of the garden, but we haven’t managed to trap any yet.  We still see evidence of their presence.  We had a lot of rain last night, and I haven’t been out this morning.  I wonder what they’ll have dug up in softer soil.


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## clancey

I like the smaller 1/4 hole size because it keeps out more things like mice and some snakes because of me having birdies--you know your area so it would be up to you on what size you would want...My handyman just made a wood frame out of two x4"s and tacked the wire on to it --metal sort of staples for wire..Then he nailed the frame to the posting that is set in concrete..You would need to figure out your doors and your top part to keep the critters out and hope that it works...Just an idea but it secures it better and looks pretty too..especially if you make some kind of lower sun area with that criss cross wood..Glad you have your garden and I bet you are a real expert at this with you food tasting really good and fresh--good for you and yours good job...clancey


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## begreen

Looking good, your garden is at least a month ahead of ours. All the plants look very happy. That dark green color shows good health. I just put in the zucchini last week. The plants are still 4" pot-sized. The cukes went in yesterday afternoon. I started them from seed and some were about 30" tall already. Today is starting out cloudy which will be good for the transplants. Our corn sprouts are about 1" tall now. Green bean seeds are in the ground, but nothing showing yet. Kale, lettuce, and chard are the only crops we're harvesting.  Lettuce is coming out of our ears.


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## EatenByLimestone

Clancy is right.  You pick the size mesh for what you want to keep out.  We use the 1/4" for bats and mice.   The 1/2" is for raccoons, skunks, woodchucks, etc.  

We use screws with a rubber backed washer to hold them on.   You can easily use a drywall screw with a fender washer though.


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## EatenByLimestone

1" should be fine.


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks, all.

Here’s my amusing picture from yesterday.  My five year old helped me harvest Swiss Chard.  
	

		
			
		

		
	




The wheelbarrow is really only about five gallons, so that’s about a pound and a quarter of chard.  Thankfully I found that if I bake the chard with a cheese sauce that my children are pretty happy to eat it.


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## EatenByLimestone

Zuchs, squashes and cukes will go in today!


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## begreen

Yay, progress. I put the corn in the ground yesterday. Beans are starting to sprout. Cukes and Zukes are in the ground developing roots. The only thing waiting now is canteloupe. And I need to find a Waltham butternut squash plant or two.


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## EatenByLimestone

Has anybody grown cukes out of pots?    I usually grow cukes under my peach tree and use it as a trellis.   I get a kick out of the cucumbers hanging down off the limbs.  

This year I have a 5 monthold golden retriever who I haven't been able to get to stop digging yet.  He likes to dig under the peach tree.   

I was figuring itd be too much trouble to plant that bed this year, but maybe I'd be able to plant in the pots, then set them under the tree.


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## EatenByLimestone

Zucchini and squash are in!


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## DuaeGuttae

Congratulations!

I’ve grown cucumbers in pots before, and it worked just fine.  You’d have to have a pretty reliable way to water, though.  I used self-watering pots or planters when I did it, and they have a nice reservoir in the bottom.  There are ways to turn standard pots into self-watering containers, I believe, though I’ve not done it.

The cucumber that I was sure the armadillos had killed is coming back!  I’ve been giving it lots of water, and I think the shade cloth and unusually cloudy and humid weather have helped.  I’m so pleased.  It’s way behind the others, but it’s alive and has time.




My Rattlesnake pole beans showed their first blooms yesterday.  They’re growing nicely on the trellis.  Some need to start coming back down.




I decided this year to try my hand at growing ginger once again.   (It’s been over fifteen years since I’ve tried, I think.)   I bought some organic ginger a good while back and let it sprout in the kitchen.  After I ate the last of the Romaine lettuce that I had growing in a big pot, I planted the largest sprouts in a circle around the olla.  This one just started to unfurl its leaves.


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## clancey

What a beautiful garden and ginger in the store is very very expensive. Hope your little sprout makes it okay..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

I tried ginger a few years ago.    It didn't work, but I'm sure it was me, not the plant, lol.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Has anybody grown cukes out of pots?    I usually grow cukes under my peach tree and use it as a trellis.   I get a kick out of the cucumbers hanging down off the limbs.
> 
> This year I have a 5 monthold golden retriever who I haven't been able to get to stop digging yet.  He likes to dig under the peach tree.
> 
> I was figuring itd be too much trouble to plant that bed this year, but maybe I'd be able to plant in the pots, then set them under the tree.


Should work fine if the dog stays out of the pots.   Should be at least a 2 gallon pot.


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## SidecarFlip

Garden is 'all in' now, just planted my Ambrosia Hybrid sweet corn.

2 rows of various varieties of potatoes, Kennebec, Red Norland, Red Pontiac,  Yukon Gold and good old Idaho.  Onions, red and white.  I have no luck storing yellow onions in the root cellar, reds store best followed by whites.

Also planted 5 hills of Cantaloupes.

Bought myself a hiller-furrower attachment for the rear tine tiller do develop trenches necessary for potato planting and I use my 'Garden Way' seeder to sow my sweet corn.  Great little tool.  Used it for carrots and beets in the past.

Too the point now where I only plant what we can store over winter.

Garden is about 3/4 acre in size.


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## begreen

We have baby cukes! The greenhouse Pointiente is growing fast! It's 3 times the size of the same plants in the outdoor beds. Our garden is about 90% planted now. Just a few more heat lovers waiting for the current cool spell to pass. The new bed is mostly planted and doing well so far.


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## SidecarFlip

No cukes this year.  I planted 4 hills last year and we had them coming out our ears, literally.  Amy picked about 20 jars of them, we ate cukes every night and I gave away buckets loads.

Same way with Zucchini.  Guy I know has a produce stand and his wife bakes Zucchini bread so he got a load of them.  They like them big, he calls them 'wife beaters'.  I had a bumper crop of them.  None this year (cukes or wife beaters).  Just taters, corn, Cantaloupes  and onions.

Got myself one if those hiller-furrower attachments for the tiller.  That should save me from hand hilling the taters.

WE strip all the corn kernels from the ears and freeze them.  I love Ambrosia sweet corn, hard to find sometimes but when I do, I buy enough for a couple years and put the seeds in the freezer.  Got everything from Jung's this year except some potatoes, got seed potatoes from them and locally.

I'll be getting cabbage down the road and making Kraut.  No point in growing cabbage, it's very plentiful here.  All I have to do is ask and I can have it by the hamper load.

Once the corn gets up to a couple inches, I'll side dress it with 46 Urea.  Corn loves Nitrogen.  So do onions


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## DuaeGuttae

We’re having a cool spell, too, but cool for us is pretty great for the garden.  We had a hard storm yesterday, and we could get more rain in the coming days, but I think the hail chances are lower, so I took the shade cloth off.  We’re having so much cloudy weather, I wanted the plants to get sun when they could.

We had a mini harvest today of some of the cooler weather crops: a head of Napa,  one daikon radish that I thought would be longer, a couple of onions, and a jalapeño that was grown inside during the fall and winter.  I added some store bought ginger, garlic, and carrots to make a batch of kimchi to ferment.





@begreen, your new bed is looking great.

@SidecarFlip, that’s one big garden area.  I’d love to see some pictures when things get growing.


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## SidecarFlip

When everything peeps, I'll post some.


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## SidecarFlip

Last year I tried the potatoes in straw bales and they did pretty good (never did that before) but it's kind of a PITA.  You have to 'season' the bales ahead of time by fertilizing them with high N fertilizer and wet them down and keep them wet until the start growing 'shrooms' and then you plant the sets in holes on the bales (made them with a bulb planter).  Easy to harvest versus digging, just cut the strings and part the bales and the spuds fall out.

This year I'm trying another method.  I cut a 6" deep trench in the beds and put the sets in the bottom of the trench and as they grow, I'll use the hiller-furrower attachment on the rear tine tiller to hill the plants.  Will see what method is best.  In previous years, I always built up hills, set the sets in the hills and then raked in the soil to keep them covered.  Problem is as always, digging them out in the fall.  It can be hard work extracting the tubers.  Once I get them out of the ground, I lay them out on tables in the barn and let the skins 'toughen up' and then off to the root cellar for the winter.

First year for Cantaloupes.  I love them so I thought I'd try growing them.  No point in growing tomatoes or peppers or cabbage.  I can drive down the road and get all I want, anytime I want.  Next year I'll do beets again.  Last year I grew them and my wife made pickled beets and we still have numerous jars in the cellar.

I sure do like the 'Garden Way' seeder.  Makes planting long rows easy and I get them straight too. Wish I could do onions with it but they don't make seed plates for onions.

Have 3 tillers, a Troy Bilt Horse, a Cub Cadet with counter rotating tines (my favorite) and a small Troy Bilt Bronco I use for cultivating.


----------



## begreen

What variety of cantaloupes are you growing? I have done best with Sarah's Choice, but it has to be a hot year. So far this year is not hot. It was 45º this morning. My peppers and cukes are asking for sweaters.


----------



## SidecarFlip

Don't know actually, I planted them (from Jung's) and the seed packet is laying in the back of the side by side.  I'll have to look at the packet and see what variety I bought.

Jung's shorted us and so far, no reply from them.  They did not ship the sweet potato sets we ordered.  Too late now, maybe we will get them next spring.  Amy and I really like candied Yams.

My hiller-furrower attachment showed up today, need to install it on one of the tillers.  Probably put it on the Cub.  Been thinking about selling the Troy Bilt Horse, the Cub is much easier to deal with, especially with the counter rotating tines.  The Horse tends to want to pull you along, the Cub don't.  The Horse is built better overall but in 5 years, I've never had an issue with the Cub.

One thing I did do when I bought it was, I took the cover off the top of the gearbox and exposed the grease fill plug (transmission is grease filled instead of gear oil like the Horse is) and filled the gearbox with high quality synthetic grease.  I had read online that there were gearbox failures due to lack of lubricant inside so I fixed that.

Filled it up, literally.  So far, so good.  Sure cost a lot less than the Troy Bilt Horse did, about 1/2 the price.

Only downside I can find is the transmission has straight cut gears so getting from reverse motion to forward motion entails some fiddling with the gear lever.  Not a big thing but synchromesh would have been a plus.

If anyone wants a hiller-furrower (for root crops), I'd suggest getting one direct from Ardisam.  They ones on Amazon (which are the same actually), are $120 bucks.  Getting it direct from them, it was $89.00 and free shipping too.  Quite a savings over Amazon.  Came quick too.  Ordered it on Friday, showed up this morning.

They fit any rear tine self propelled tiller btw.


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## SidecarFlip

Once the corn peeps and the onions start sprouting, I'll side dress them with 46 granulated Urea prills.  Same stuff I use on my hay fields so I have plenty as in a couple tons.  Fertilizer has went way up this year.  Last year it was 9 bucks a 55 pound sack, this year it's 20 bucks a sack.

Had a little weed issue to start out with, last fall I applied quite a bit of cow manure to the garden and got the expected weed issue.  I dressed the entire garden with Roundup Max, 3 weeks before planting anything.  Half life on Roundup is 2 weeks so that eliminated 90% of the weed issue.


----------



## fbelec

doesn't the roundup affect the good plants?


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## SidecarFlip

No, not when applied 2 weeks or more prior to planting.  The 'half life' with glyphosate is 2 weeks.  I wait 3.  You kill the invasive weeds and then plant and all is good.  What you do when you farm as well.  You spray the fields, and 2-3 weeks later you plant.  Sure beats weeding a garden constantly.


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## begreen

fbelec said:


> doesn't the roundup affect the good plants?


One can feed the plants artificially or one can feed the soil organically and let that nurture the plants. Chemical farming is a slippery slope with increased dependency on artificial nutrients and chemical solutions to weeds and pests over time. It depletes the soil if a good carbon source like compost or cover crops are not added.  Glyphosate (Roundup) nukes some of the microbiota in the soil and can remain persistent according to the USDA for almost a year in the soil depending on the soil type.

_"Glyphosate can also predispose plants to diseases indirectly by reducing the overall growth and vigor of the plants, modifying soil microflora that affects the availability of nutrients required for disease resistance, and altering the physiological efficiency of plants."_








						Glyphosate: Its Environmental Persistence and Impact on Crop Health and Nutrition
					

Glyphosate-based herbicide products are the most widely used broad-spectrum herbicides in the world for postemergent weed control. There are ever-increasing concerns that glyphosate, if not used judiciously, may cause adverse nontarget impacts in agroecosystems. ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## SidecarFlip

Never impacted me one iota but then I'm not onto organic farming or gardening and never have been.  I hold a Michigan pesticide / herbicide state license and the safest thing I use is Glyphosate.  I call it Roundup but I don't use the Monsanto stuff.  I use a generic mix.  Not gonna pay Monsanto for their trademark product.

I apply all kinds of herbicides and pesticides including 2-4-D (B) which is a hybrid Paraquat that don't cause die back with alfalfa.  One thing to remember when using any of it is PPE.  When spraying using the tractor, I keep the cab doors closed and my air filtration is through a special activated carbon cab filter designed just for spraying.  If I spot spay with the side by side, I'm always suited up in a chemical resistant suit and wearing neoprene disposable gloves.

If you only knew what the stuff you buy at the grocery was treated with, you'd probably quit eating.


----------



## SidecarFlip

I don't as a rule, buy into the hype that abounds concerning pesticide-herbicide application. Everything in life has it's positives and negatives including burning wood for heat and released particulates and how they impact the enviroment.  I do what I have to using the chemicals provided for a certain task.

I do know we need some rain soon.  A nice 1/2" would be wonderful.


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## begreen

SidecarFlip said:


> If you only knew what the stuff you buy at the grocery was treated with, you'd probably quit eating.


This is why we grow so much of what we eat and support local farmers. We buy almost no prepared foods anymore. There is a reason diseases like autism, asthma, cancer, diabetes, etc. are on the rise. And why American soils are disappearing at an alarming rate. Continuous cover crop, no till and regenerative farming are trends being supported by the USDA now in order to save and restore our soils.



SidecarFlip said:


> I do know we need some rain soon. A nice 1/2" would be wonderful.


Here too. WA state is now the 4th driest spring on record since 1894. Locally, in our little microclimate it is even worse.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We got a nice 13/16th inch of rain yesterday.  It’s been a nice May for the garden in our part of Texas.  I found my first blushing cherry tomato (Sweet Million) on Friday morning and the first baby Rattlesnake Pole Beans.   I have a pack of mixed sunflowers and planted only one seed this year.  I tucked the plant in the corner of my asparagus bed where there was a little room, and I find the result very cheerful.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@begreen, have you ever heard of or read _The Time it Never Rained_ by Elmer Kelton?  It’s historical fiction set in the ranch land of West Texas.  I’ve talked to people in the area who remember years in the fifties when it really never did rain.  The book was a tough read in many ways, but it struck me as surprisingly current in political and environmental issues for a novel written before I was born.  (I don’t remember the seventies, of course, so it may all have been current then, too.)  I read it last summer when I was beginning to wonder if it was possible that it wouldn’t rain again on my garden.  I’m delighted at the moment that our drought level has been downgraded from severe to moderate, and I’ve got three thousand gallons in our rain tanks.


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## clancey

You have four beautiful little tomatoes too...They are cute and going to be so good too...We have water problems here in CO and early this morning we got a drenching--so good...clancey


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen, have you ever heard of or read _The Time it Never Rained_ by Elmer Kelton?  It’s historical fiction set in the ranch land of West Texas.  I’ve talked to people in the area who remember years in the fifties when it really never did rain.  The book was a tough read in many ways, but it struck me as surprisingly current in political and environmental issues for a novel written before I was born.  (I don’t remember the seventies, of course, so it may all have been current then, too.)  I read it last summer when I was beginning to wonder if it was possible that it wouldn’t rain again on my garden.  I’m delighted at the moment that our drought level has been downgraded from severe to moderate, and I’ve got three thousand gallons in our rain tanks.


I haven't read that one. Our library system has it listed, but no copies. Without water, survival is impossible. This sometimes can be reversed if one works with nature instead of against it, even in Texas.








						Meet the Visionary Who Restored 5,500 Acres of Wrecked Texas Land to Paradise
					

Fifty years ago, the wildly inspiring David Bamberger bought the worst land he could find with the aim of bringing it back to thriving life.




					www.treehugger.com
				




We "may" get some rain this week, right when we are having some painting done. Go figure. The rain is more important, painting can wait if need be.

Your plants look great. We have flowers on our sweet millions and sungolds but we are a few weeks behind you. especially for the heat these plants love.


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## clancey

Look what I got today for I was thinking of your pretty gardens so I wanted a plant...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Excellent!     Pretty soon you're going to have less grass to mow!


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## EatenByLimestone

I have most of my tomatoes in.   I still have some held back to plug spaces if some don't make the transplant.


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## clancey

My little tomato plant I had to put back into the container because it flew out in a car accident but I am thinking of filling that big container today next to it with miracle grow soil and would that be okay if i put it in a sunny area on top of a table with a cage around--you think this would be okay---if it survives after flying through the air but it actually looks okay today...i never planted anything in my life and certainly know "nothing" about plants especially baby tomato plants...lol  Love to see your gardens they are all so pretty..c


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## SidecarFlip

I don't grow tomatoes.  One, I'm allergic to the plants and two I don't care for them...and I can get all I want down the road anyway.  This is tomato country, lots of truck farms here.

Starting to water the garden today (well), this evening.  Still need to erect a greenhouse, maybe someday.

Brought down 8K pounds of no germ corn Saturday, all on pallets in 50 pound sacks.  Think I have about 13K on hand right now and 4 skids of pellets.  A ton per pallet, about all I like to haul down the road on the tractor forks.


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## clancey

Your like me Sidecar for I am not oriented to be a garden person but sure appreciate the hard work they do and eating everything--but I thought maybe just one little tomato plant would not hurt--"outside it will be outside"--lol lol If it makes it...My late husband came from Michigan and those tomato's were wonderful...These garden people on here sure have some nice looking gardens but with just one plant I can watch it all summer...Make it like company for me...thanks c


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Your tomato plant will be fine.   You can remove some of the lower leaves and bury it deeper.  Tomatoes will root out higher and the plant will be thrilled.    

The important thing is to have fun!


----------



## clancey

Thanks I am fixing its little bed now and will take a picture of it later--thanks for the information and I will do that,,,c


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## begreen

Make sure the pot has a drain hole at the bottom. Put about 1" of gravel at the bottom to facilitate drainage and to prevent the potting soil from clogging the drain hole. 

What type of tomato is this?


----------



## clancey

Its a celebrity hybrid tomato and I put some gravel and p rock in the bottom and filled it up with miracle grow soil for outside and gave it some shells on top in case it needs calcium and to let it think its in Michigan. Plus I put a cage like thing to keep animals out and a bamboon type of box on top to give it some shade--its just a baby--also I took off the bottom leaves and planted it deep..Here is a picture of it now since it is in where it will be...c


----------



## SidecarFlip

clancey said:


> Your like me Sidecar for I am not oriented to be a garden person but sure appreciate the hard work they do and eating everything--but I thought maybe just one little tomato plant would not hurt--"outside it will be outside"--lol lol If it makes it...My late husband came from Michigan and those tomato's were wonderful...These garden people on here sure have some nice looking gardens but with just one plant I can watch it all summer...Make it like company for me...thanks c


Well, I am (orientated to be a gardener sort of.  More like a farmer with a 1 acre patch 'garden', I just see no reason in fooling with tomatoes when all I need to do is go down the road and get all I want.  Like I said, I'm allergic to the vines and leaves and tomatoes do bad things to me internally anyway.  You see, Tomatoes and Nightshade are related and I'm also allergic to Nightshade even though it's the best deterrent to poison Ivy there is.  (Crushed Nightshade berries spread on poison ivy kills it instantly).

All I want applies to cabbage too.  This year is Kraut year.  Probably ferment 30 gallons.

Nothing beats home made kraut with Italian sausage in the winter.

Need to put the furrow-holler attachment on the tiller and hill the potatoes, maybe tomorrow after everything gets watered this evening.


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## Montanalocal

We had a 1 ft heavy snow about May 21.  I had the cole crops planted out.  May 25 pics show the snow melting, they look like they will make it.  I will take follow-up pics later to let you know.  First pic is Brussels Sprouts, second is Broccoli.


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## SidecarFlip

Montanalocal said:


> We had a 1 ft heavy snow about May 21.  I had the cole crops planted out.  May 25 pics show the snow melting, they look like they will make it.  I will take follow-up pics later to let you know.  First pic is Brussels Sprouts, second is Broccoli.


Brussels sprouts like cold/  I pick them all winter.  O cover them with straw and pick them all winter.  In fact, they are better when they are subject to cold.


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## Montanalocal

Yes I know, I have been growing Brussels Sprouts for many years, it is one of my faves.  My concern was not the cold temps, but that the very heavy wet snow would break off the growing point, as they had started to elongate.  It looks like they are bent over, but that the stalk is still intact and will keep growing.  We shall see.


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## EatenByLimestone

SidecarFlip said:


> Well, I am (orientated to be a gardener sort of.  More like a farmer with a 1 acre patch 'garden', I just see no reason in fooling with tomatoes when all I need to do is go down the road and get all I want.  Like I said, I'm allergic to the vines and leaves and tomatoes do bad things to me internally anyway.  You see, Tomatoes and Nightshade are related and I'm also allergic to Nightshade even though it's the best deterrent to poison Ivy there is.  (Crushed Nightshade berries spread on poison ivy kills it instantly).
> 
> All I want applies to cabbage too.  This year is Kraut year.  Probably ferment 30 gallons.
> 
> Nothing beats home made kraut with Italian sausage in the winter.
> 
> Need to put the furrow-holler attachment on the tiller and hill the potatoes, maybe tomorrow after everything gets watered this evening.



Potatoes are Solanaceae, nightshade family also.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I haven't read that one. Our library system has it listed, but no copies. Without water, survival is impossible. This sometimes can be reversed if one works with nature instead of against it, even in Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Visionary Who Restored 5,500 Acres of Wrecked Texas Land to Paradise
> 
> 
> Fifty years ago, the wildly inspiring David Bamberger bought the worst land he could find with the aim of bringing it back to thriving life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.treehugger.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We "may" get some rain this week, right when we are having some painting done. Go figure. The rain is more important, painting can wait if need be.
> 
> Your plants look great. We have flowers on our sweet millions and sungolds but we are a few weeks behind you. especially for the heat these plants love.




I read about David Bamberger when I first moved here.  It’s exciting what he has done.  

My plants are surprising me this year.  I think I put them too close together because I wasn’t expecting such vigorous growth. 

Sweet Million has been a good cherry for me in this climate, and we harvested our first today.  (My five year old and I each got half since we spend the most time in the garden.)  I’m trying a new type of cherry this year called Maglia Rosa.  It is supposed to take less space but still produce prolifically.  I’m glad I was warned that it was a scraggly looking plant because it sure is.  I started it over a month later than the Sweet Million, and it has just this week put on its first fruit, and I’m excited about that.  I also saw my first purple eggplant today.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Its a celebrity hybrid tomato and I put some gravel and p rock in the bottom and filled it up with miracle grow soil for outside and gave it some shells on top in case it needs calcium and to let it think its in Michigan. Plus I put a cage like thing to keep animals out and a bamboon type of box on top to give it some shade--its just a baby--also I took off the bottom leaves and planted it deep..Here is a picture of it now since it is in where it will be...c



I’m proud of you, Mrs. Clancey.  It’s great that you’re trying new things.  The bamboo box might be a little too much shade, but it’s definitely good to protect it while it’s recovering from the car accident and the transplanting.  Dry air makes sunlight more intense on plants, and Colorado has plenty of dry air and sun.  You can see how things go and adjust accordingly.  

I’m so sorry to hear that you (and your tomato) were in an accident, but I’m sure glad that you weren’t the one to go flying.  Tomatoes are surprisingly hardy, and it looks like you’ve gotten it off to a good start.


----------



## SidecarFlip

EatenByLimestone said:


> Potatoes are Solanaceae, nightshade family also.


I dislike big words.


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## EatenByLimestone

Sorry.   Family names were important in school.    Lots of useless plant info is stuck in my head.


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## clancey

Yea I wanted to find something that would protect it from the heavy rays but give it some sun as well and that's the only thing that I could find in my house working like a screen to let some sun in and I brought my baby plant in last night it got chilly and I thought rain and now it is overcast and they said rain this afternoon so its in the house in front of my window still looking okay..Thanks,,c


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## SidecarFlip

I knew it would rain if I watered the garden last night and true to form, it did and is.  Good deal, we need the precipitation.


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## DuaeGuttae

I had to fill the ollas in my garden this morning, but it was really a joy to be in amidst the plants.  Right now they’re all healthy and growing, and some are setting fruit.  The honeybees have found my cucumber flowers, and a few fruits are swelling.  My five year old and I dug a bunch of new potatoes for our lunch, and it was like finding buried treasure for him and for me.

Our family is having a long weekend off from work and school that starts tomorrow.  I may harvest some of the onions and see what I can rig up for curing them.  (There were lots of fire ants in that bed this morning.  I put out a couple of garden-safe bait stations, but I’m nervous about what they’ll be eating as they do actually consume some forms of produce.)


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## EatenByLimestone

Your garden looks great!


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## clancey

It sure does wonderful looking garden and well cared for..c


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## EatenByLimestone

I was weak.

One of my employees wanted to go flower shopping on a break.   While she looked at the flowers I checked out the veggies.    They had 6 packs of San Marzanos easily 3x the size of mine for $3.79.     I bought a 6 pack.    I'll plant them Tuesday after the long weekend.


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## Woodsplitter67

I haven't had any time to post.. been way to busy at work. My son and I finished moving the garden and got it planted about 3 weeks ago. I was able to get all the plants out of the greenhouse. The tomatoes took a real beating because it was hot in there and the post were small for the size of the plant. We planter over a hundred plants the we started from seed. The new garden is taking off. I made a compost pile last year from leaves and vegetation from here at home and work, taking the machine and turning the pile. All of it was added to the new garden , probably 6 yards and tilled it in with the dingo and tiller. We doubled the size of the garden from the previous year and it has a 3ft fence around it consisting of a wood frame and 2x3 wire to keep the unwanted out. I should have the irrigation finished this weekend.  Had to do ALOT of watering by hand.. man it's been hot and dry here. We just went 15 days with no rain and temps in the upper 80s to mid 90s..


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> I had to fill the ollas in my garden this morning, but it was really a joy to be in amidst the plants.  Right now they’re all healthy and growing, and some are setting fruit.  The honeybees have found my cucumber flowers, and a few fruits are swelling.  My five year old and I dug a bunch of new potatoes for our lunch, and it was like finding buried treasure for him and for me.
> 
> Our family is having a long weekend off from work and school that starts tomorrow.  I may harvest some of the onions and see what I can rig up for curing them.  (There were lots of fire ants in that bed this morning.  I put out a couple of garden-safe bait stations, but I’m nervous about what they’ll be eating as they do actually consume some forms of produce.)
> View attachment 279114
> View attachment 279115
> View attachment 279116



Thank you for the tomato seeds. I planted 1 in my garden. Started from seed as soon as you sent. The variety looks to be a vigorous grower and has taken well to my climate. Although is was smaller then the others, it seemed to perform better in the heat of the greenhouse than some of the other varieties like the better boy and the Wisconsin..


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## SidecarFlip

Heat and dry isn't conducive to growing perennial's, especially fruiting plants.  Why I like potatoes,  Once they get established, they are pretty much unimpacted by odd weather plus they keep well over the winter in the root cellar.  Same with onions.  Having a bad time with my sweet corn.  Had less than 50% germination.  Considering replanting the rows.  I quit growing anything we cannot put up other than cantaloupes.  No zucchini this year at all.  I don't like eating it and I was only growing it for my buddy's market, said before, his wife bakes bread from it so I'd let them get huge and then pick them.  They take up too much room, not that I don't have the room with a 1.5 acre garden but still a PITA so I didn't plant any.  No cukes either and no green beans.  Still have plenty of frozen beans and sprouts in the deep freeze.  Have a lot of sweet corn too but we like sweet corn on the cob.  We canned sweet and sour pickles last year and about 20 jars of Kraut and I ran at least 30 gallon of cider and we froze 10 gallon and gave away the rest, all from the apple trees on the property.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thank you for the tomato seeds. I planted 1 in my garden. Started from seed as soon as you sent. The variety looks to be a vigorous grower and has taken well to my climate. Although is was smaller then the others, it seemed to perform better in the heat of the greenhouse than some of the other varieties like the better boy and the Wisconsin..



You’re welcome.  I’m glad it’s doing okay for you.  If it will handle heat, that will be great news for me in Texas.  Our May has been cloudy and often wet, very unusual for my years down here, but my garden is thriving.  Thankfully the garden survived a very strong storm last night that brought down tree debris (no whole trees, just natural pruning) all over our property.  My mother in Virginia has been hotter and drier than we have been for the past couple of weeks.  I think that will be changing soon, though.

Here’s a shot of the trellis where we are growing three tomatoes.  The outer two are a different Artisan cherry called Madera.  The inner plant is the Agi Red for which I sent out seeds.  I’ve been having to prune a number of lateral branches as they are growing more vigorously than I expected.  The second shot is a close-up shot of the fruit set at the bottom of my Agi Red.  I think my plants are a couple of weeks older than yours, and I was able to transplant them at least a month earlier.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those honeybees on the cucumbers have been working hard.  We had just enough of a harvest yesterday to make tabbouleh for today’s lunch.  This evening I wanted to do the first real picking of the pole beans, and I ended up grabbing ingredients for cucumber pickles, too.  We have nice slicers developing on the vine as well.





The beans I put in the fridge to await a larger harvest.  The rest of the ingredients went into the jar with some garlic cloves and a saltwater brine for fermenting.  

We had new neighbors move in down the street recently.  My five year old and I walked over one day last week to introduce ourselves and to offer them some garden plants since I knew that the previous owners had left behind some large raised beds.  It turns out that they aren’t gardeners and had other plans for that space, so our garden space is going to be expanded with free raised beds.  (We also recently got 98 feet of  good fencing for free and we got some thinner wire fence with the beds as well.).Tomorrow I’ll begin the process of my mini-hugelkultur for the beds.  It will take a while to build the soil, but I’m very excited to have more space to rotate crops in the future and not have to worry so much about fitting everything in that I want to grow.


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## SidecarFlip

Never understood the need for raised beds.  I plant everything in the ground just like I do when I farm.

Tried the straw bale thing for taters last year but I'm bac to the ground this year.


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## begreen

SidecarFlip said:


> Never understood the need for raised beds.  I plant everything in the ground just like I do when I farm.


Limited space, no power tools so manual labor, no weeds, warms up quicker. And sometimes the native soil sucks due to heavy clay, gravel bed or rocks.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

SidecarFlip said:


> Never understood the need for raised beds.  I plant everything in the ground just like I do when I farm.
> 
> Tried the straw bale thing for taters last year but I'm bac to the ground this year.



You’re blessed with what you have.  I’m very familiar with in-ground gardening as it’s how my mother fed us all my growing up years.  She has a beautiful garden that she has maintained in Virginia for nearly fifty years at this point.  I, however, live on top of a limestone cliff on the Edwards plateau of Texas Hill Country.  Whatever topsoil there may have been eroded away because of severe overgrazing before we bought the land.  My neighbor was amazed that we actually succeeded in driving the t-posts in around our current garden (though their exact spacing is a bit wonky because we had a lot of places where we couldn’t sink them, but limestone is soft rock at least).  We’ve been letting the land recover for the past four years, so there is more soil and greenery than there was when we bought it.  With rock at the surface and an pH of 8.3, though, my garden will be in raised beds and containers.  I’m just glad that works for our circumstances, and I’m very thankful to be having a rainy May. 

Here are a couple of old pictures I found to give you an idea of the stone on our property.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

My father burnt coal for a few years in the 80s.    I'm not sure where he decided to dump the ash.  This  is an easy way to not have to worry about it.


----------



## SidecarFlip

begreen said:


> Limited space, now power tools, so manual labor, no weeds, warms up quicker.


Roundup handles the weed chores for me, in the garden and in the fields.  I get a few anyway.  But I like getting in there and pulling them anyway. In the fields, I don't.  Just overspray.  Don't own a spray rig other than a 3 point so I have the co-op spray for me.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> You’re blessed with what you have.  I’m very familiar with in-ground gardening as it’s how my mother fed us all my growing up years.  She has a beautiful garden that she has maintained in Virginia for nearly fifty years at this point.  I, however, live on top of a limestone cliff on the Edwards plateau of Texas Hill Country.  Whatever topsoil there may have been eroded away because of severe overgrazing before we bought the land.  My neighbor was amazed that we actually succeeded in driving the t-posts in around our current garden (though their exact spacing is a bit wonky because we had a lot of places where we couldn’t sink them, but limestone is soft rock at least).  We’ve been letting the land recover for the past four years, so there is more soil and greenery than there was when we bought it.  With rock at the surface and an pH of 8.3, though, my garden will be in raised beds and containers.  I’m just glad that works for our circumstances, and I’m very thankful to be having a rainy May.
> 
> Here are a couple of old pictures I found to give you an idea of the stone on our property.
> 
> View attachment 279218
> View attachment 279219


Sounds like good conditions for a vineyard.


----------



## begreen

It's beginning to be strawberry time.


----------



## fbelec

strawberrys ripened  on the vine are the best. red all the way through and sweet. not like the junk at the big grocery store.
i had a patch a while back about 10 x 4 foot once a year it would give me 15 pints.


----------



## SidecarFlip

There are a couple wine grape growers here but the big fruit grower is Applewood Farms,  Have huge apple tree orchards just south of me plus a processing plant and oxygen depleted storage.  Apples trees do well here, even mine.  Where I get my cider apples from (my trees).


----------



## begreen

fbelec said:


> strawberrys ripened  on the vine are the best. red all the way through and sweet. not like the junk at the big grocery store.
> i had a patch a while back about 10 x 4 foot once a year it would give me 15 pints.


Yes, giant store-bought strawberries are often picked before full ripening and are tasteless. Not only that, they have the highest concentration of herbicides and pesticides of any produce unless they are organic.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I'm debating on planting more beans.  They're easy to grow and freeze.  

Food prices could be through the roof this year if hackers keep taking down parts of our infrastructure, and inflation keeps on its pace.  

A package of seeds is a cheap price for peace of mind.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'm debating on planting more beans.  They're easy to grow and freeze.
> 
> Food prices could be through the roof this year if hackers keep taking down parts of our infrastructure, and inflation keeps on its pace.
> 
> A package of seeds is a cheap price for peace of mind.


Last year I started a second crop of beans once the spinach was all harvested. These were in the raised bed so I planted blue lake bush beans. Our main crop is blue lake pole beans. The bush beans came out great and my family really appreciated having the second crop extending the season. This year I think I will plant again them once the garlic is harvested in another raised bed.


----------



## SidecarFlip

Problem with a steady diet of beans is the air they produce....lol


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I hadn't even thought of the garlic beds.  I really upped my garlic production this year.   

I produce a steady supply of bean air as it is.   The dog is worse.   It would be awkward in an office, but nobody cares about a guy alone in his truck, lol.


----------



## kborndale

begreen said:


> Make sure the pot has a drain hole at the bottom. Put about 1" of gravel at the bottom to facilitate drainage and to prevent the potting soil from clogging the drain hole.
> 
> What type of tomato is this?




Begreen, putting gravel at the bottom doesn't help drainage, it is a old wives tale and actually is detrimental as it just raises the perched water level.


----------



## begreen

SidecarFlip said:


> Problem with a steady diet of beans is the air they produce....lol


Not a factor with green beans, at least not in my family.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

My husband and I used our very long weekend to work on filling the raised beds with organic matter from our land (dead oleander trimmings that we didn’t want to shred or burn, but apparently it can be safe to compost, rotten wood and accompanying soil from a pile that came with our land, palm leaf mulch from what we had to cut after the big freeze, fresh grass clippings from the little bit of grass we have, other greens like pokeweed and hackberry leaves from our fence line, and a good soaking from a  55-gallon barrel of thistle sludge.  (We’d been rotting thistles after removing any seed heads, but it has been so rainy this month that we haven’t needed to dilute the “tea” and use it as fertilizer, so this seemed a good application.). We worked yesterday to chip piles of cedar branches to cover the pathways.  We got one pile chipped but ran out of time.

We do have some aged manure compost that we can put on top.  If we still have a good long season by the time we’ve fenced, I think I’ll plant some cowpeas as a cover crop.  If we happen to get some good eating off of them as well, that will be a bonus.





Today is a bit rainy, but I went out this morning to do a quick harvest for preservation.  I have sliced the zucchini into rounds, blanched it, and it’s in my freezer on my dehydrator trays to freeze before I package it.  I’m  trying to preserve more this summer instead of eating everything fresh, especially at times when we’ve really got an abundance.  My desire to preserve is part of why I’m so excited to be increasing my garden space.  I also plan to freeze the Swiss Chard.  The cucumbers joined some friends in the fridge to wait for my next pickling batch.  (The cherry tomato was a treat for my eight year old.)





@EatenByLimestone, I think you should definitely go for more beans, especially if you don’t have other plans for your garlic beds.  I think you once made a comment that a package of bean seed would feed a whole street.  I was thinking of that when I was harvesting for our first meal the other day.  I planted a small package (a 20’ row) of Rattlesnake pole beans.  I’m hoping it will at least feed our family this summer and that I’ll be able to save some seeds to plant another round next year.


----------



## begreen

Looks like you are off to a good start with the new beds. 

Do you dehydrate the zucchini slices before freezing?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Looks like you are off to a good start with the new beds.
> 
> Do you dehydrate the zucchini slices before freezing?




I did not dehydrate the slices, but laying them out on the trays made me think that I might want to make some zucchini chips for the kids this summer if the Squash Vine Borers don’t do my plants in too soon.

The dehydrator trays just make a convenient way for me to freeze since I don’t own lots of metal cookie trays.  I like to lay my slices out so that they don’t freeze together in a clump.  (I also like to do that for something like blueberries or sliced okra.). I did blot the pieces dry with a towel after the blanching.  I filled three trays with slices.  I have an empty tray turned upside down over the bottom layer, then another over the second layer.  This keeps the pieces from being smushed but lets me use less space in the freezer since all three trays of slices are stacked.  When they’re all frozen, I’ll put them in a freezer bag.





We got some good rain already this morning, and I just heard another rumble of thunder.  Our drought situation has been downgraded once again only to “abnormally dry.”  My garden is loving it.

Edited to add:

Here’s a photo of the ginger I have on my front porch.  It doesn’t get a lot of sun, but it’s been warm and humid, and I’m very pleased with how it’s doing.  I started a different batch more recently in a planter on my back deck.  It’s just starting to get a couple leaves now.


----------



## begreen

Ah, that is how we freeze berries, veggies too, but on cookie pans. Have not tried this with zucchini, yet.


----------



## clancey

Would not dehydrating them be a better way for storage instead of freezing them or do you eat all these different wonderful things up real fast...lol  They would be gone with me---looking good...clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Clancy, how is that tomato doing?


----------



## clancey

With a name like you have I am going to keep the tomatoes (if they come) far far away from you "Eaten".. Here is a picture of the little thing and its still growing...Gave it a little garden plant feed and it might like that and seems like a happy plant and likes the full moon,,clancey


----------



## kborndale

clancey said:


> With a name like you have I am going to keep the tomatoes (if they come) far far away from you "Eaten".. Here is a picture of the little thing and its still growing...Gave it a little garden plant feed and it might like that and seems like a happy plant and likes the full moon,,clancey



Get a cage on that tomato now so you don't rip through as many roots when you need it later.


----------



## clancey

Not quite sure what you mean--never really grew anything before--never really liked gardening and should I put this plant into the ground maybe and stick one of those cage like things on it? Not a green thumb in my whole family--lol thanks  clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Not quite sure what you mean--never really grew anything before--never really liked gardening and should I put this plant into the ground maybe and stick one of those cage like things on it? Not a green thumb in my whole family--lol thanks  clancey



Mrs. Clancey,  I'll put in a link to the type of thing that kborndale is suggesting.  I just chose something simple from Home Depot since I believe you mentioned getting your supplies from there.  Tomatoes can have a tendency to sprawl or flop over without support.  The cage is a wire structure that helps keep the plant upright and the fruit off the ground.









						12 in. x 42 in. Galvanized Steel Tomato Cage 080420 - The Home Depot
					

Use this 12 in. x 42 in. Galvanized Steel Tomato Cage in your garden to support your tomato plant and help it grow healthy and strong. It can also be used in a patio tomato plant container. The 42 in.



					www.homedepot.com
				




There are smaller versions, but you don't want anything shorter than this.  Taller is better for a lot of tomatoes, but Celebrity isn't a huge variety, so this is inexpensive as a starter for your purposes. 

I also dug up an old picture of a celebrity tomato for you.  This one isn't caged, but it's growing up a flat wire trellis.  A cage would have worked well on this plant.



Edited to add:

I just went out on my deck and took a picture of a potted tomato for you.  I was given some seeds this spring for a variety I’ve really longed to try, but my garden space was all taken, so they are in pots.  My five year old has adopted this plant as being his, and I bought him this tomato cage at Tractor Supply Company a few weeks ago. 



Here’s a link to my cage in case there’s a Tractor Supply in your area as well.  



			https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/glamos-54-in-heavy-duty-green-tomato-cage-718673
		



I hope that helps.  You just want to get it over your plant before there is too much growth both under and above ground.


----------



## clancey

Thanks I am going to get one of these things (tomatoe cages) and I think that I am gong to stick this in the ground when one of my "workmen" appear and have him dig a hole for me so as to plant it secure right in front of the fence with its cage and then I will just watch it and feed it with a special formula that I made up for it..Its a secret--lol...Usually I could dig my own holes but I can't in this moment of time because of being side swiped in the truck..But that's the plan for now..Any kind of special bug repellent that won;t hurt people that I could spray on it in time.. maybe garlic water or something--lol....clancey Thanks everyone...


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Would not dehydrating them be a better way for storage instead of freezing them or do you eat all these different wonderful things up real fast...lol  They would be gone with me---looking good...clancey



Just realized that I forgot to answer this post.  

Dehydrating can be a great way to store food, as long as all the moisture is completely removed.  If I’m going to store dried food long term, though, I tend to throw it in the freezer anyway just in case of moisture issues.  My kids love dried food so much, though, that they tend to eat it up for snacks, and I don’t have to worry about it.  If it’s dried first, it does take less space in the freezer.   I doubt that I’ll have enough surplus in the garden to make freezer space an issue, though.


----------



## clancey

That's neat...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

A video I think you guys and gals will enjoy!


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## begreen

That's a good video. We watched it last week. Diversity is life.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Dehydrating can be a great way to store food, as long as all the moisture is completely removed. If I’m going to store dried food long term, though, I tend to throw it in the freezer anyway just in case of moisture issues. My kids love dried food so much, though, that they tend to eat it up for snacks, and I don’t have to worry about it.


I am going to try making some zucchini chips in the oven just for fun this summer. They will be lightly salted and seasoned.


----------



## clancey

I watched the video and this would be a totally different way of farming and if I must say a better way..Everything could get some benefit including the pretty birdies and the tree people as well as keeping the farming more on the organic side...Thanks for the educational video for I enjoyed it as well as so much more easier to take care of and benefit from the natural growth--wonderful--enjoyed clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I am going to try making some zucchini chips in the oven just for fun this summer. They will be lightly salted and seasoned.



It’s been a while since I’ve done it, but we used to do a bit of a marinade with olive oil and a little lemon or lime juice mixed with salt and herbs.  It’s not much, but it gives a nice flavor.

For the past couple of days I’ve noticed squash vine borers flying in the garden.  Strangely enough they’ve been landing on my potatoes, but maybe it’s just that that is the only place that isn’t a jungle, and so I can see them there.  My four zucchini plants look good now, but I just put two more seeds on to soak as I have two big pots where I can plant replacements.  I figure it’s only a matter of time before these vines succumb.  I did bury the bottoms of the stems in more compost a couple of days ago.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

My squash and zucchini are still so small!  The tomatoes are too!   Really, everything but the broccoli and kale is.    It's been so cold.   We have this weekend and Monday in the 90s.    At least the tomatoes will love it.   They'll probably triple in size.


----------



## begreen

The still preview frame for that video is misleading. It is a picture of the Apricot Lane Farm in California.








						Welcome - Apricot Lane Farms
					

ALis a farm integrated within a reawakened ecosystem. Our focus is seeing and utilizing the interconnectedness of nature...



					www.apricotlanefarms.com
				




There is a really good movie about this farm called *The Biggest, Little Farm* that I recommend watching . The story of the farm is similar to the Wisconsin farm in that they started out with nothing, but even drier. What it changed to is truly remarkable. The film is about these changes with some deeper life lessons. They have accomplished an amazing improvement in not only their land, but also to the community and their lives.


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## EatenByLimestone

that chicken egg... the poor hen!  I hope it was the size of a golden retriever to push out that egg!    Lol


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I have done a little growing around trees and such to take advance of the fungus around the root structures of perennials.   The results have been pretty good, but I haven't done it long enough to have long-term results.


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## clancey

In regard to The Biggest Little Farm..
Thanks for the effort ...

I know that is a wonderful movie to watch but I cannot watch it for I would really feel bad for the "hardships" that might be involved..even if it ended up wonderful for I would just remember the bad--that's me for now.. I was not like this when I was younger but now that I am getting old I am more sensitive to things so after the preview of it I would not seek it out.  Thanks anyway...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> My squash and zucchini are still so small!  The tomatoes are too!   Really, everything but the broccoli and kale is.    It's been so cold.   We have this weekend and Monday in the 90s.    At least the tomatoes will love it.   They'll probably triple in size.



In a few weeks my garden will probably be on the downward slope, and yours will be surging with new growth.  The weather this spring has been good for the garden (cooler and wetter than usual, which is good this far south), but the heat is coming in.  I have a hard time knowing that the spring-planted plants won’t make it all summer down here.  

Right now my cucumbers are very prolific.  My kids ate some form of cucumber salad each day for the last four days, and I started a gallon of pickles yesterday.  Thankfully they aren’t sick of them yet, but the slicers I picked this morning I decided to dehydrate (after salting and draining them for a couple of hours).  We’ll eat this batch when it’s done, and I’ll decide if it’s worth the effort for the future.


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## clancey

How large of a storage unit to you have people to keep your fresh produce in canned or dehydrated? Just curious and it is so nice for you to have this extra protection and you all are working hard for it too...My tomato plant  is doing just fine and maybe tomorrow I will have someone put it in the ground for me and i am preparing the soil where it goes with miracle garden soil as well as my secret ingredient. I also have a plastic table I can put over it --if it hails or something. clancey


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## bholler

clancey said:


> How large of a storage unit to you have people to keep your fresh produce in canned or dehydrated? Just curious and it is so nice for you to have this extra protection and you all are working hard for it too...My tomato plant  is doing just fine and maybe tomorrow I will have someone put it in the ground for me and i am preparing the soil where it goes with miracle garden soil as well as my secret ingredient. I also have a plastic table I can put over it --if it hails or something. clancey


Storage unit?  I have a chest freezer but that is mainly for meat.  I have 2 standard fridges one in the kitchen one in the basement.  And a pantry that's all.  It doesn't take much space just to store the excess production


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## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, fridges and freezers for me.  I haven't canned in a few years.   I'm contemplating making rhubarb marmalade.    I haven't made it in a while and some people love it.  

We try to eat as much as possible and give away a lot of it.   We blanche and store some stuff in vacuum packed bags in meal sizes.   We'll pull from that all winter.


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## clancey

Yea maybe a better word would have been pantry.  My house was built in 1926 and in my kitchen connected to it  was a sort of like a closet where people put all their food items like canning jars and flours and foods of that nature and in this area these were not large but it was the largest "so called food closet in the house"..Mine was about 4x4 that I actually turned into a closet under the attic steps and i was wondering if you people had something similar to store your canned goods or dehydration made products. What are those root cellars about I heard a lot about in the old days..? I guess it is all modern now with electricity and freezers and using up all the foods each year. I remember when I was young people were canning stewed tomato"s and string beans and I believe some kind of fruit cut up and stored these in the pantries for later use..I remember people boiling apples and putting them though some kind of a strainer into jars for later use and they all had these separate little rooms to keep these things in as well as calling them "dry goods" like flour and beans and things of that nature all lined up and dated.. Just wondering if any of you with your wonderful gardens had a room like this just for food storage..But now I guess it is all freezers to where you eat up all the food and get ready for the new growing season..How convenient we have it..Boy limestone if you ever make some rhubarb marmalade I buy a jar or two--yes...I also love those hot different peppered jellies but I like a  more sweet taste then a hot tasting one but they are so good. I remember helping out the nuns in their convents and they had very large pantry rooms where they stored all kinds of things--dishes and foods and flours and they were kept beautiful as well.. Thanks clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

We use our basement as a pantry/root cellar, but the canning isn't as important to us.   I have made and canned a bunch of pickles too.   The hardest thing with canning is the amount of energy you have to put into it.  Not so much my energy, but running the boiling baths.   Its funny, you mentioned the nuns canning.  I picked up my boiler and racks for canning at a priory garage sale.   It was big enough that I had to upgrade my stove in order to get the big aluminum pot to boil!

Blanching and freezing is quicker and easier.    As I get extra kale, it gets processed and frozen.  I dont have all the produce sitting around waiting to get processed.   Zucchinis get picked small, any that hide too long go straight into zucchini muffins, etc.   

The only things I figure I'll have too much of are tomatoes, kale, and beans, which are staples in my wife's cooking.


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## EatenByLimestone

Oh, and I'll have a ton of garlic too.


----------



## begreen

First harvest of red hardneck garlic. The white softnecks need a few more weeks. And, our first cucumber harvest. These are Pointiente from the greenhouse and are about 12" long. Outdoor cukes are several weeks behind. We were getting warmer, but now a cold front is moving through. The good news is we finally saw a little rain. .20 in so far today.


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## EatenByLimestone

Beans started pushing their tap root out.  They were placed in soil this morning!


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## begreen

We finally got rain yesterday. .61" total, yay! But with the rain last night the temperature plummeted to 45º, boo. Our heat lovers are not going to be happy.


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## EatenByLimestone

It surprises me that you're so dry.   I thought you were in the rainy part of the state.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> It surprises me that you're so dry.   I thought you were in the rainy part of the state.


We're in a micro climate rain shadow. Our area gets half the rainfall that Seattle does. Average about 17" per year as compared to Seattle's 32-34" per year. So when we have a dry summer, it is really dry here. Some of our lawn is already browning out. Though it might green up again with yesterday's rainfall.


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## EatenByLimestone

I was out watering tonight due to the heat.   The zucchini doubled in size and now has flower buds.   Probably males, I didn't look closely.   

It looks like the sun and heat did the garden good!


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We're in a micro climate rain shadow. Our area gets half the rainfall that Seattle does. Average about 17" per year as compared to Seattle's 32-34" per year. So when we have a dry summer, it is really dry here. Some of our lawn is already browning out. Though it might green up again with yesterday's rainfall.



Wow!  I had no idea you got so little rain.  I’m glad you got some yesterday. 

Your garlic and cucumbers look great.  My garlic failed this year completely.  What varieties of cukes do you grow outdoors?

@EatenByLimestone, what kind of beans did you plant?

@clancey, I used fridges and freezers, too, and we have a large pantry.  We don’t have any basement, so there isn’t even a cool place for me to store things in the winter, so I need to use a climate controlled environment (fridge or freezer) for most of what I keep.  With a family of six and a small garden, though, there isn’t much that doesn’t get eaten up pretty quickly.

Here are a couple photos of my latest preservation efforts.  Dehydrated cucumber chips with chili/lime seasoning, and frozen cucumber purée.  The chips taste good, but I prefer the moisture of cucumbers.  We’ll pop the cubes of purée into freezer bags to store it for a bit and blend it up with limeade or gazpacho this summer when the cucumber vines play out.  





My mother grew just about all our food when I was young.  She has a large unfinished basement that includes a bomb shelter (Cold War construction, of course).  It is a great place for storing food.  She cans a lot.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I started planting beans mid April or so with 3 half packets of beans.  2 green and 1 wax.    Most of them didn't make it past the cold.    I ended up buying 2 more packets of green bush beans.   1 was container planted with some okra and filled in open spots where the beans were first planted.  The other was just put in a starter tray this morning.    Itll be a lateish start, but there's plenty of time for them to get going strong.    I have 45 seeds that went into soil this morning.    I imagine I'll be sick of beans by next summer.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I started planting beans mid April or so with 3 half packets of beans.  2 green and 1 wax.    Most of them didn't make it past the cold.    I ended up buying 2 more packets of green bush beans.   1 was container planted with some okra and filled in open spots where the beans were first planted.  The other was just put in a starter tray this morning.    Itll be a lateish start, but there's plenty of time for them to get going strong.    I have 45 seeds that went into soil this morning.    I imagine I'll be sick of beans by next summer.



Is it really a late start for your area?  I thought your last frost date was about Memorial Day?  

I planted a packet of beans in mid-May down here last year.  That was definitely too late a start for last summer.  They hung on all summer but never produced a bean until temperatures cooled in the fall.  Then they started producing at the same time as the ones I had planted in August.  I would expect that your hottest summer temperatures don’t last long enough to delay production significantly, but who knows with weather, right?

One of my zucchini plants is definitely getting hit by borers.  I’ve loved having rain recently, but it means that it’s not much use trying DE or BT or neem.  I’m going to try burying more stem if it’s still alive in the morning.  It was not looking good tonight.

I was just checking my eggplant.  They liked our warm temperatures today.  The big one is larger than my fist, and there are a bunch set and more flowers.  (I did harvest two small ones last week when I was wanting to add more vegetables to a large pot of pasta sauce.)




These are some clusters of Sweet Millions that I’m watching for color change.  It’s our earliest maturing variety, though I did bring one Thessaloniki inside last week to finish ripening on the counter.  I didn’t want rain to hurt it.



I usually take pictures of my garden from the gate, but this morning I wanted to capture a different angle.  I’m standing behind the corn, but it’s in very tall pots, so it’s about two feet shorter than it appears.  The nearest trellis is for sweet potatoes, but they’re just getting going now.  Most of what is in the center is my tomato jungle, though I do have some pumpkins that may well take over soon.  Pole beans and cucumbers are on the two edges of the shot (barely visible).


----------



## clancey

My you sure do have a beautiful garden...Good food coming..clancey


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## begreen

My favorite overall cucumber for our area has been Sweet Success, but these new cukes just raised the bar. They are Poiniente and definitely heat lovers. I also have Paraiso growing, but outdoors with just tiny cukes starting so far. For green beans we always grow Blue Lake. I tried soaking the seeds this year to give them a jump start, but they didn't germinate great. I started some in the greenhouse and they took off like crazy so I used those starts to fill in the blanks in the earlier planting. The whole row looks good now and are about 6" high. We are harvesting broccoli and peas now along with lettuce and spinach. The Sugar Snap peas are over 6 ft tall and about to swamp us with fresh peas. No eggplants yet, but the plants are looking good and healthy. The biggest are the Ichibans at about 14" tall.  

Our cherry tomatoes are about 3 weeks behind yours if we warm up more. There are a few green ones on the plants. Sweet Millions and Sungolds this year.


----------



## BCC_Burner

begreen said:


> We're in a micro climate rain shadow. Our area gets half the rainfall that Seattle does. Average about 17" per year as compared to Seattle's 32-34" per year. So when we have a dry summer, it is really dry here. Some of our lawn is already browning out. Though it might green up again with yesterday's rainfall.




I lived in North Bend for three years, which was a micro-climate in the other direction: we averaged around 70 inches of precipitation per year.  We had a stretch from Christmas through early February one year (about 6 weeks) where we recorded over 30 inches of rainfall, and that rain gauge was on the dry side of town.

Where I live in Colorado, it will still be another week or two before you can get any plants in the ground.  We're still getting overnight frost regularly.  It's 27 at my place at the moment, with an afternoon high of 82 forecast.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I guess time and dates are relative.  I'm used to getting all my stuff in early.  This year it's been real cold so I look at my garden and think its behind.   It's not.   I'm just being foolish.  I like harvesting early and I'll be harvesting at a normal time this year.


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## EatenByLimestone

Today when I got home from work I looked at the beans in their starter tray.  Some are already poking out of the soil!   I'm impressed!    This is day 4!   Day 1 was a soak in a bath of water.   Day 2 was out of the water and onto wet paper towels.    I noticed some of them starting to push out of the seed and put them in the starter tray yesterday, day 3.      Today they are pushing out of the soil!     Wow!


You know, those starter trays have been busy.   I bought them with broccoli in them.   After they were hardened off and planted they got tomatoes planted in them April 1st.    A week or 2 later  the remaining spots were filled with zucchini, squash, cukes, and basil.     Now they are filled with beans!


----------



## begreen

BCC_Burner said:


> I lived in North Bend for three years, which was a micro-climate in the other direction: we averaged around 70 inches of precipitation per year. We had a stretch from Christmas through early February one year (about 6 weeks) where we recorded over 30 inches of rainfall, and that rain gauge was on the dry side of town.


Yes, the west slopes of the Cascades get a lot more rain, almost twice what Seattle averages. We have rain to the west and east of us this evening. Dry here.


----------



## Dobish

Got our Garden in a few weeks ago. We wanted to maximize space, so we built a few more raised beds (60% more space than last year!) AND a trellis for the Butternut and Acorn Squash to go over. We have been eating lettuce and radish for the last week. Our peas and Beans are starting to climb, and we have a few patty pan and yellow squash on our plants.





The xeriscaped garden is coming in quite nicely for year 3!


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## begreen

Wow, you have made a lot of progress since the last shots of the remodel. Solar added too! It looks great.


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## EatenByLimestone

That looks great!


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> You know, those starter trays have been busy.   I bought them with broccoli in them.   After they were hardened off and planted they got tomatoes planted in them April 1st.    A week or 2 later  the remaining spots were filled with zucchini, squash, cukes, and basil.     Now they are filled with beans!



You know, I think you’ve been busy, too, in addition to those starter trays!   What’s the latest garden news?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dobish said:


> Got our Garden in a few weeks ago. We wanted to maximize space, so we built a few more raised beds (60% more space than last year!) AND a trellis for the Butternut and Acorn Squash to go over. We have been eating lettuce and radish for the last week. Our peas and Beans are starting to climb, and we have a few patty pan and yellow squash on our plants.



I went back and looked at last year’s pictures to compare.  I really like what you’ve added and how you made your trellis go over your entry path.  It looks very nice, and I bet it will be beautiful when the plants start filling it out.

I have a pumpkin vine that refused to stay away from the tomatoes.  I put up a little fencing to keep it a bit more contained.  In one night, it leaped from the top of that fence and grabbed onto my taller tomato trellis.  The next day it started moving out to the pathway.  I decided to let it go and guided it toward an arched trellis where I have some determinate cucumbers.  It now has a firm hold on the roof of the arch, If it wants to spread on top of that, I’ll let it.  I just want to see what it will do.

I was surprised to see today that I have a tassel on one corn plant. I also have a couple of new tomato varieties blushing.  Unfortunately it was so hot today that it was utterly miserable to be in the garden even in the morning.  My plants have grown so tall that it might be hard to put shade cloth back up.  Thankfully the lush growth is really doing a good job shading the soil.


----------



## begreen

Rain today, .79" in 24 hrs which is the most we have gotten in many months. It's very welcome. Unfortunately, slugs also love it.  I will see what the garden thinks tomorrow.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

I haven't had much time to spend in the garden.. but here it is so far. Iv been working on my wood processing area as well as additional storage.. I didn't do anything this week.. hopefully I can putter around next weekend


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> You know, I think you’ve been busy, too, in addition to those starter trays!   What’s the latest garden news?



The garden has been busy, but if anything, I'm just holding a water hose, lol.

Perennials are about ready to harvest.  Rhubarb is ready,  blueberries, and raspberries are coming on soon.   Kale just started getting harvested for soups and stews, I don't think we've frozen any yet.  I'm wondering how much longer the lettuce will hold out.    I do like scattering the seeds in the top of tubs, then hacking away with a pair of scissors.  It's much better than going out to the garden and selecting leaves.  Zucchini plants are starting to look like zucchini plants.

I need to have at the kale so it doesn't overtake the squash.

Maybe I'll get some tomatoes next month.

I dont know, it's a garden,lol


----------



## begreen

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I haven't had much time to spend in the garden.. but here it is so far. Iv been working on my wood processing area as well as additional storage.. I didn't do anything this week.. hopefully I can putter around next weekend
> View attachment 279538
> View attachment 279539
> View attachment 279540
> View attachment 279541


That looks great Woodsplitter. Your garden is at about the same stage as ours is.

Matt, have you tried growing more bolt-resistant varieties of lettuce in a shadier location or under a shade cloth? I grow red and green salad bowl lettuce all summer long in small successive plantings along with some other mixes. The early spring plantings are in full sun, but the next will be in a bed that only gets about 4-6 hrs of sunlight. I also may try some in an area that gets shaded by the cucumber trellis.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Well, yes and no.    I'm not sure if the varieties are bolt tolerant, but they are a few feet directly north/northeast of a peach tree that shades them very well as it comes in.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

The heat has really hit in our part of Texas now.  I had to harvest a bell pepper that got sunburned even though it’s to the north of super-tall tomato trellises.  I don’t love green peppers as I prefer the flavor of ripe ones, but it went well in a zucchini sauce for lunch today.  Here’s what the garden gave for that (with the ugly sunburned spot turned down):




My five year old got to help harvest the cherry tomatoes, and he picked a few before their prime, but they all went into sauce.  We have some sauce tomatoes blushing now, too, but they weren’t ready for picking.

@Woodsplitter67 , the tomatoes in the middle of this shot are the Agi Red, not quite ripe.  The striping should be more yellow than green, I believe.  I was still pleased with the flavor.  The ones on the bottom are Sweet Million, on top Madera.  Madera is a new one for me this season.  I really like its flavor, though, and if it can stand up to the heat as well as Sweet Million, I think it might take its place for me.  We use a lot of cherry tomatoes, and they’re better for the height of summer in Texas than bigger fruited varieties.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> The heat has really hit in our part of Texas now.  I had to harvest a bell pepper that got sunburned even though it’s to the north of super-tall tomato trellises.  I don’t love green peppers as I prefer the flavor of ripe ones, but it went well in a zucchini sauce for lunch today.  Here’s what the garden gave for that (with the ugly sunburned spot turned down):
> 
> View attachment 279565
> 
> 
> My five year old got to help harvest the cherry tomatoes, and he picked a few before their prime, but they all went into sauce.  We have some sauce tomatoes blushing now, too, but they weren’t ready for picking.
> 
> @Woodsplitter67 , the tomatoes in the middle of this shot are the Agi Red, not quite ripe.  The striping should be more yellow than green, I believe.  I was still pleased with the flavor.  The ones on the bottom are Sweet Million, on top Madera.  Madera is a new one for me this season.  I really like its flavor, though, and if it can stand up to the heat as well as Sweet Million, I think it might take its place for me.  We use a lot of cherry tomatoes, and they’re better for the height of summer in Texas than bigger fruited varieties.
> 
> View attachment 279566



I picked my first cherry tomatoes yesterday from a potted tomato that I had in the greenhouse. I took them out a few weeks ago when we had the heat.. im looking forward to the new tomato variety..


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I picked my first cherry tomatoes yesterday from a potted tomato that I had in the greenhouse. I took them out a few weeks ago when we had the heat.. im looking forward to the new tomato variety..



You must have been having some pretty good heat.  The photo of your garden looked like you were loaded with banana peppers or something similar.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> You must have been having some pretty good heat.  The photo of your garden looked like you were loaded with banana peppers or something similar.


Yes.. we like frying peppers. but not that much. only one row was to be frying. the other row was to be red bell. I had to repot some of the stuff that I started in February.  Some of my soil was contaminated and I had lots of seedlings come up and couldn't tell what was what.  When we were reseeding I guess I was still sowing yellow when I should have sown red.. I have like 4 plants bell I don't like to discard anything do I have some in large containers.. 3 gallon plant pots I get from work. The cherry and Better Boy tomatoes are in 5 gallon containers  We did have some good heat a couple weeks back and it was dry. Had I think 5 days of mid 90s for 2.5 weeks we had upper 80s to mid 90s and bone dry.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

At least peppers freeze well!

Plant mix-ups can be frustrating.  I bought two packs of seeds for paste tomatoes this spring and planted two seeds of each.  In each group only one plant is growing true to type, the other is a more typical slicer.  I don’t think I mixed any plants up as they were labeled quite carefully, and one of the slicers is lobed, unlike any other tomato that I own.  I’m assuming that I got some sort of crossed or mixed-up seed from the company.  I’ll just make sauce from the slicers, but it is frustrating not to know exactly what I’m growing, and not to be growing the pastes that I intended.  Both mystery plants have at least set a lot of fruit, and the lobed one has some ripening.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Manyvtomatoe flowers self pollinate with the wind.  It sounds like a bee helped your plant out with a little cross pollination.


----------



## begreen

Cucumbers outside are finally getting some sun and tolerable overnight temps. I ate our first pickling cuke (Regal) yesterday. It was good. News for our full-sized cukes is mixed. The good news is the outdoor cukes are grateful for sun and warming temps. We have a Paraiso that is about 4" long. The bad news is that the disease (virus or bacterial) is badly affecting the huge Poiniente plant in the greenhouse. I'm not sure it is going to make it and suspect I will be growing in pots there next year.


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## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> Cucumbers outside are finally getting some sun and tolerable overnight temps. I ate our first pickling cuke (Regal) yesterday. It was good. News for our full-sized cukes is mixed. The good news is the outdoor cukes are grateful for sun and warming temps. We have a Paraiso that is about 4" long. The bad news is that the disease (virus or bacterial) is badly affecting the huge Poiniente plant in the greenhouse. I'm not sure it is going to make it and suspect I will be growing in pots there next year.



I have found growing in the greenhouse year round to be difficult. It gets way to hot I the summer or days with no clouds and full summer sun. I have my door open all all the vents open and the plants don't do well. My tomatoes don't flower because of the heat and things like cucumber get  disease quickly when the greenhouse  closes at night. I pot my stuff for the greenhouse in large containers and when the weather cools and gets more  Conducive I will move the plants in.  Every so often in the fall and early winter some of the stuff needs to get hit with a fungicide or its a goner..


----------



## begreen

Yes, our greenhouse does best for early starts and overwintering sensitive plants like our lemons and olive. The first few years were good, but the last 7 or so have been a battle. Aphids get in and spread disease quickly.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Manyvtomatoe flowers self pollinate with the wind.  It sounds like a bee helped your plant out with a little cross pollination.



I spend a lot of time tapping my tomato trellises and plants to encourage that self-pollination, though I do have a fair amount of wind, too.  The honeybees have been very busy with my cucumbers.  They must certainly be cross-pollinated, as well as my squashes, but I don’t have any plans to save seeds from those plants this season since most of them are hybrids.

Cross-pollination of plants in my garden shouldn’t affect this year’s plants or fruit since the changes in traits only show up in the next generation from the crossed seeds (with the exception of corn, I’ve heard, which can show changes that same season).  Last year I used up my last Black Krim seed in my packet, and so I did save seeds from our first ripe fruit, I think.  It was planted right next to a yellow pear tomato, though, and I had other varieties, too.  I haven’t grown one out yet to see how it turns out, but I still have the seeds to experiment with at some point.

It’s been hot and dry here recently.  I never harvested my onions in May as it rained the morning I had planned to do so.  We’ve been eating them steadily, but I pulled the rest of the crop up this morning.  They have been in my cucumber and pepper bed, and I needed to get mulch on that bed to help keep in the moisture I apply.  The onions are now on a rack in my garage with a small fan blowing on them to circulate the air.  I think they’re mostly dry from their time in the ground, but I wanted to give them a bit of air movement.  I mulched around the zucchini and beans as well.


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## DuaeGuttae

Here’s a picture of the fruit of one of my mystery tomatoes.  Next to it is a shot of the real Rio Grande tomato growing in my garden.  The “not Rio Grande” tomatoes are about four ounces, kind of flat, and lobed.   I don’t have anything else in the garden like it.  I used several (with a few other varieties and vegetables thrown in) to make a sauce today, and it turned out well, so that’s good news.   I’m not even sure if it’s a determinate or indeterminate plant.  It’s growing pretty tall, but it also has a bunch of fruit that’s ripening now.  I guess I’ll just have to see what happens as the season goes on.


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## Woodsplitter67

You may have gotten seed from a hybrid.. The seed from a hybrid will show the trade from the parents that is was cross pollinated from.  I have also gotten seed that is incorrect.. one time I picked up.a pack of red bell and got a yellow bell pepper., even though the pack had a picture of a red and was labeled a keystone ..


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## EatenByLimestone

Its not a bad looking tomato!  Sounds like a good surprise!


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## DuaeGuttae

I agree that  it’s kind of a nice tomato so far, and it worked for the sauce.  I’m just disappointed not to know whether my seed packets of Rio Grande and Floradade will be good for the future (50 % accuracy in the four seeds I tried isn’t encouraging.)  I bought them particularly for their ability to set fruit in high temperatures, and because they were determinate open-pollinated sauce tomatoes.  I’ll keep growing these, of course, and see what I learn.

I harvested another three pounds of tomatoes this morning, and a number of them were this mystery fruit.  (The second mystery fruit that came from the Floradade package hasn’t blushed yet.)  I wanted to give the ground around them a good watering, so I brought in fruit that was mostly ripe but not completely.  It will sit on my counter for a couple of days.  The interior of my house is actually a better temperature for ripening tomatoes than my garden is right now, but I do love a good vine-ripened tomato.  

@Woodsplitter67, I have a mystery bell pepper in my garden right now.  This one is no fault of any seed company, just my own not taking the same care with peppers that I did with the tomatoes.  I did some individual seeds in containers that I didn’t label.  I thought that the bells didn’t germinate, but evidently one came up later, and the jalapeño seed I had put in later didn’t come up.   I only own two varieties of bells, but I don’t know whether it’s the yellow or the red.  I’ll be happy either way if I can get a nice, big sweet pepper.


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## EatenByLimestone

I haven't figured out the secret to peppers.   I'll get red peppers or green peppers, but they're racketball sized.   It's a  me problem, lol, as plenty y of area farms grow them without issues.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I haven't figured out the secret to peppers.   I'll get red peppers or green peppers, but they're racketball sized.   It's a  me problem, lol, as plenty y of area farms grow them without issues.



I wonder if those area farms use “plasticulture”—black plastic “mulch” that heats the soil early in the season and helps keep back weed competition.  I’m not recommending that you use that method, but I could see peppers being a challenge in your area because they do love to keep their feet warm.  The secret to peppers is warm soil  (and not too much sun, just to make things interesting down here in Texas!).

I think both @begreen and @Woodsplitter67 do well with peppers, though,  Maybe they’ll share some other secrets, too.


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## Woodsplitter67

I keep my peppers on the dry side as they do not like constant moisture or we feet, as a matter of fact  I have lost peppers when we have had day after day of rain. I feed weekly, but not enough to encourage the plant to get leggy. I use a soluble
 15-15-15 but will cut it in half or a little more then half for the peppers. My garden gets full sun all day, very little shade.  I do alot of hand watering and most times skip the peppers, I'll water them if, they look like there starting to wilt, or the color isn't good and mix in a small amount of fert. I do on occasion put down a couple granular fertilizers.  One being a 
14-14-14 and the other is a organic tomato fertilizer it's a jobes I think it's a 
6-4-8 something with some micro nutrients, but I go light on the fert but feed regularly. If the peppers start to really green I cut back on the fert and skip the week. The farmer around me grows peppers normally about 400 acres. They feed regularly through drip tube and are using using a low nitrogen fertilizer like a 4 or 6 there plants a a nice green medium size, not leggy not compact, and filled with perfect bell peppers. These guys are pulling peppers out by the tractor trailer load.


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## EatenByLimestone

I went away for the weekend.   It looks like bunnies broke back into the garden.    I'm not sure the broccoli has enough time to recover again.     Ugh.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I went away for the weekend.   It looks like bunnies broke back into the garden.    I'm not sure the broccoli has enough time to recover again.     Ugh.


Bummer. Sounds like the fencing is going to need reinforcing or maybe add a low electrical fence. It's not too late to start broccoli, but the baby plants will need some sun shading until they are strong enough to take the summer heat. If the sun is very intense you may be able to leave the shade cloth up until mid-August. You can also plant broccoli in early August too, for a nice fall crop. That has worked well for us the past couple of years.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I haven't figured out the secret to peppers.   I'll get red peppers or green peppers, but they're racketball sized.   It's a  me problem, lol, as plenty y of area farms grow them without issues.


I don't do anything too special for peppers, they get the same treatment as our eggplants and tomatoes. They go in our sunniest beds which get prepped with some compost, composted chicken and steer manure, a good general-purpose fertilizer like Down-to-Earth's,  and worm castings. I put a little extra fertilizer in the hole before planting the seedling. All our watering is via drip irrigation so the surface of the soil is usually dry. We get very little rain in the summer. The sunniest beds get about 9 hrs of sun.

Currently, most of our plants are flowering. There are around 12 plants and 8 varieties with  about 6 peppers forming and one larger green bell pepper that will get picked this week. Most of our peppers are allowed to get red, which takes patience, except for the yellow banana peppers.


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## begreen

Ugh, I just ordered shade cloth for the greenhouse. Never thought I would need to do this here, but the heat coming in the next several days will be too much I think for the tomatoes and cucumbers in there. With a record-setting air temp of 100º I will be watering a lot.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Ugh, I just ordered shade cloth for the greenhouse. Never thought I would need to do this here, but the heat coming in the next several days will be too much I think for the tomatoes and cucumbers in there. With a record-setting air temp of 100º I will be watering a lot.


 

Ugh is right!  I empathize.  We haven’t hit an actual air temperature of 100 yet this season,  I don’t think, though the heat index has been above several times, and we have been in the nineties for quite a while.

I don’t have a greenhouse, and I haven’t put shade cloth back above the garden for the summer because I have some plants where I’d have to sacrifice the top growth to do so, and I’m not ready to do that.  You’ll definitely need it for your greenhouse with high temperatures and those long sun hours at your latitude. 

How is your Poniente cucumber doing, Begreen?  You had mentioned an infection a few posts back.

Our cucumbers have done very well this spring, but they are slowing down now.   Even well watered they can have trouble facing our afternoon sun.  I had my camera out just a bit ago, and this is what my droopiest looks like in the heat of the day.  It’s been doing this every afternoon for a week, but it still has enough life and health to perk back up when the late afternoon shade covers it even though the air temperatures are still high at that point.





If it gets really bad in your greenhouse, you could consider using ice to cool some watering cans of water before applying it.  Obviously you wouldn’t want to make it too cold, but it would help keep soil temperatures down for those really brutal couple of days you’re expecting this weekend.  If you’re running air conditioning during the heat wave, do you have a way to run the drain water to needy plants or to a container?

The ginger in pots on the front porch and back deck (both in shade) is doing well.  I’m noticing that it must be developing new rhizome material and putting up new shoots.  I’m thinking of giving some leaves a try in cooking later today.  The first shoots are maybe two and a half feet tall now, but I’m glad to see the multiplying.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> How is your Poniente cucumber doing, Begreen? You had mentioned an infection a few posts back.


The greenhouse poiniente is hanging in there. The lower leaves look sad, but the upper part of the plant is still growing and producing. It is now up into the greenhouse rafters and about 9 ft tall. The outdoor poiniente and other cucumbers are doing well so far and liking the warmer weather. Whether they still are by next week is another question entirely. I could try the ice water in the watering can, though I better buy some bags of ice for that.


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## Woodsplitter67

I can't leave anything in the greenhouse from mid may through early September.. It just gets way to hot. On a sunny day and upper 80s to 90 its 120 degrees in there with all the vents open and the door open. I have a dark concrete paver as the floor with tons of stone underneath for thermal mass and it holds heat.. great in fall, winter and spring but not summer. My friends greenhouse is hotter then mine his is cooking at 140 degrees..


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## begreen

Usually, overheating is not an issue in our greenhouse. We get a cooling influence from Puget Sound but maybe not this time. 
I'm thinking of changing the greenhouse to bucket containers. That would allow me to relocate the veggies to a cooler, shade location during a hot spell, assuming this is an anomaly. However, what we are about to experience will be a record-setter if predictions hold true. And that is the all-time high record, not just for this day. Normally our record highs are set in late July.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The greenhouse poiniente is hanging in there. The lower leaves look sad, but the upper part of the plant is still growing and producing. It is now up into the greenhouse rafters and about 9 ft tall. The outdoor poiniente and other cucumbers are doing well so far and liking the warmer weather. Whether they still are by next week is another question entirely. I could try the ice water in the watering can, though I better buy some bags of ice for that.



It seems that it’s ”hanging in there” in more ways than one if it’s growing nine feet in the rafters.  Be careful harvesting that.  You must need a stepladder.  

I’ve read a couple of articles now on the expected heat wave for your area.  It sounds as though it could be quite dangerous.  Be careful for yourself, please, as you care for your plants.  I would go ahead and stock up on ice now before the heat gets going today.


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> It seems that it’s ”hanging in there” in more ways than one if it’s growing nine feet in the rafters.  Be careful harvesting that.  You must need a stepladder.
> 
> I’ve read a couple of articles now on the expected heatwave for your area.  It sounds as though it could be quite dangerous.  Be careful for yourself, please, as you care for your plants.  I would go ahead and stock up on ice now before the heat gets going today.


Yes, it doesn't look good. I got the shade cloth on the greenhouse and an extra fan going there. Picking up a bag of ice for the plants in the greenhouse too. Expecting the mid-80s today, then the real heat is coming. Will be shifting to an early morning and evening schedule outdoors for the next several days. Thankful we have a heat pump for the house and that we are close enough to the water to benefit from its influence. The vents are not set up for cooling, but 80º inside will feel like heaven if it hits the predicted 107º on Monday. The 10 day forecast shows about 10º above normal every day.  The tomatoes, peppers, cukes and eggplant should love it if they survive the next few days. And this is June!


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## DuaeGuttae

Wow!  107 on Tuesday!  I’ve never even seen a temperature that high at my home in Texas (but this is only my third summer, and I know it has been higher at times in the past).  It looks as though you’ll still get at least some cooling at night, which is good news.  I’m glad you have a way to cool your home during the day, though.  I regularly walk into an 80 degree home and am thankful for how much better that feels than outside.  I’m also thankful to read that Washington has such a high vaccination rate since there are so many who may need to use cooling centers.  

I agree that your vegetables will be liking the weather later next week if they aren’t too traumatized getting there.  Your night time lows look good for continued viability of pollen.  We struggle in the summers because it just gets too hot for our plants to set fruit or for the fruit on the plants to ripen, but we aren’t going below 70 at night these days.

That was quick turn around on your shade cloth order.  I’m glad you were able to get it so quickly and get it set up before the most brutal heat comes in.

I hope this June heat wave will be a strange anomaly for the summer and not a harbinger of July and August.  If things stay hot, let me know if you want a few okra seeds for your greenhouse.

Stay safe!


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## begreen

The shade cloth was in stock, one day order from Amazon so I jumped on it. I also installed an extra fan in the greenhouse. The shade and fan are definitely helping knock down the heat in there.


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## DuaeGuttae

How did it go today, @begreen?  I was thinking of you as I was working in our heat this morning and late this afternoon.  The forecast for up there for the next couple of days looks dreadful.


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## begreen

The peas have gotten so tall and heavy that they collapsed on themselves. I picked out in the heat and got about 6 pounds. I think tomorrow may be the last of them. The same thing happened in the greenhouse with the cucumber, but I managed to get it better secured to the rafters and it appears ok. The shade cloth is making a big difference. Even so I am giving the tomato in the large container almost a gallon of water a day. Monday will be the trial by fire day. Hoping we get some wind from the north for some water cooling effect.


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## DuaeGuttae

Congratulations on the pea harvest, @begreen.  At least you had time to get something.  I had a lovely crop of snow peas going this winter, and the February freeze did them in before I got to do more than taste them.  I’m so glad the shade cloth is helping the greenhouse, but I just saw a prediction for 111 degrees on Monday near where you live.  Ugh.

We had a really good harvest of vegetables (for us) this morning.  My husband and I worked all day yesterday on the soil in our new raised beds.  By evening I was overheated and feeling sunburned, so I didn’t get to the Swiss Chard which needed harvesting.  This morning I took the time to gather everything that needed to be harvested, plus the tomatoes that were getting ripe.  We have a (small) chance of storms today, and the critters have started getting at my tomatoes at times, so I bring in a portion of the ripening ones to protect them.  Here’s what I gathered this morning.



This Swiss Chard is just finishing baking with some scalloped potatoes for lunch.  The two tomatoes that look so green are a white variety that my mother sent some seeds for to my daughter earlier this year.  They’ve lightened up and started softening, so I brought them in.  I’ll be interested to taste one.


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## begreen

That looks great. What kind of cucumbers are the glossy long ones? How do you like them?


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> That looks great. What kind of cucumbers are the glossy long ones? How do you like them?



They are Southern Delight Hybrid.  









						Southern Delight Hybrid Cucumber
					

60 Days  One of the best hybrid cukes for continuous yields of late spring to fall crops. Fruits have a crisp and delicious texture from the time they're small, harvested for pickling, right through full maturity at 8 to 10 long and 1 diameter. Deep green skin becomes glossier in high heat...



					www.totallytomato.com
				




We have loved them.  They don’t get bitter in our climate and have a great flavor.  They are supposed to be a good pick for high heat, and I can attest to the fact that they are.   They won’t last the whole summer here, though.  They’re even slowing down a bit now, but they have been producing mightily for me this spring.  We use them a lot for salads: garden salad, cucumber salad, tabbouleh, but we have pickled them, too, in past years.  This year my Alibi Hybrid picklers are producing so well that I haven’t pickled any of the Southern Delights, but I have given away any number of them.  They’re my equivalent of zucchini this year.  It makes me think I planted too many plants, but really I think it was the rainy May we had that got them off to such a strong start.  I have twenty feet of trellis, and the cucumbers have climbed all over it and are trying to invade the fencing, too.

I used my last seeds for the Southern Delights this year (one reason I was so, so upset when the armadillo uprooted my plants twice, but amazingly they actually came back).  I think I’ll have to get a new pack next year.  We are very pleased with this variety, and we love salads.


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## begreen

Looks good. The Southern Delight looks like a shorter version of the Poiniente that we are growing. We are also growing Alibi and Regal pickling cukes for the first time. So far, the Regals have proven good. Waiting for our first Alibis for comparison.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Looks good. The Southern Delight looks like a shorter version of the Poiniente that we are growing. We are also growing Alibi and Regal pickling cukes for the first time. So far, the Regals have proven good. Waiting for our first Alibis for comparison.



Your Ponientes must be monsters then!  I really hope they survive today’s heat for you. 



We grew Alibi a few times in Virginia, and it was always great for us (except that it was definitely attractive to cucumber beetles).  After having some less positive experiences with other types of pickling cukes down here in Texas, I decided to order a new pack of Alibis for last fall’s garden.  It was an utter failure!  Thrips found them, and no amount of spraying with neem or yellow sticky traps could save them.  I just pulled them out and was really worried that they just didn’t like this environment.  I tried again this spring, though, and they have been great.  The bottom of my refrigerator is full of fermented pickles (one jar of dilly beans).  I’m just about to sit down and make some more this afternoon.  I’ve never had any experience with Regal.



I’m thinking of you and your gardens/greenhouse in today’s heat.


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## begreen

So far we are not getting the worst of the heat. Nearby Puget Sound is helping keep us about 15º cooler than inland thanks to a steady breeze. We're at 84º at 1pm. Inland has already passed 100º. This should be the worst of it. So far the only casualties have been the peas and lettuce. The sugar snap peas have already provided us with about 20 lbs of peas, so it's not the end of the world. We'll see about the strawberries, they have been producing like crazy this year and may want a rest in this heat.


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## Woodsplitter67

this heat is  Is reeking havoc on my zucchini... I have some serious wilt right now.. had a little wilt yesterday and threw water on them.. I'm hoping they make it past this week and the temps will drop to near normal.. got some good peppers yesterday


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## begreen

Nice. Yellow bananas?


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## fbelec

how well does insecticidal soap for anyone here


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## Woodsplitter67

begreen said:


> Nice. Yellow bananas?


yes.. frying peppers...going to get alot of them


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## Woodsplitter67

fbelec said:


> how well does insecticidal soap for anyone here



They are just ok.. some results on some none on others. Don't spray when rain is in the forecast.  If you have Aphids on your tomatoes, soap will help very little.


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## begreen

Well, we survived. Temps are much better today, so far it is only 78º with a high of 84 predicted. The garden did ok. I picked another 5 lbs of peas today and then pulled the plants. They really performed well. we got about 30 pounds total. I put the canteloupe babies in the garden beds last night. They are ready to grow. Hope it's not too late.


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## kborndale

fbelec said:


> how well does insecticidal soap for anyone here



I get much better results with horticultural oil, just don't spray in the sun.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Well, we survived. Temps are much better today, so far it is only 78º with a high of 84 predicted. The garden did ok. I picked another 5 lbs of peas today and then pulled the plants. They really performed well. we got about 30 pounds total. I put the canteloupe babies in the garden beds last night. They are ready to grow. Hope it's not too late.



Hurray!  I’m glad things have moderated for you, though I think inland is still expecting high heat tomorrow?

What type of peas do you plant?  How big a space do you devote to them?  I want to try sugar snap peas again this year for our fall garden.   My kids love them.


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## begreen

We grow sugar snap peas. This year I tried something new and had a row in the center of the corn bed which is 14' long. I also had some backup starts which I grew in another bed rather than throwing them out. The peas in the corn bed idea was not a good one. The peas grew huge and pushed out the corn sideways. I put multiple strings across the peas to keep them growing upright, but eventually, the height (over 7 ft tall) and weight of the peas caused them to double over and push the corn outward. Now with the peas gone the corn does not want to stand upright. I just added some support posts and strings to support the rows. Never did that before and am not sure if it's going to work. Next year the corn goes back to having a dedicated bed with squash in between.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We grow sugar snap peas. This year I tried something new and had a row in the center of the corn bed which is 14' long. I also had some backup starts which I grew in another bed rather than throwing them out. The peas in the corn bed idea was not a good one. The peas grew huge and pushed out the corn sideways. I put multiple strings across the peas to keep them growing upright, but eventually, the height (over 7 ft tall) and weight of the peas caused them to double over and push the corn outward. Now with the peas gone the corn does not want to stand upright. I just added some support posts and strings to support the rows. Never did that before and am not sure if it's going to work. Next year the corn goes back to having a dedicated bed with squash in between.



Sounds like you had some really healthy peas, though!

A couple years ago I had some container corn that was flattened by a windstorm.  It did not want to stand up on its own, but I was able to get it to stay upright by a thick layer of wood mulch around the base and some temporary fencing wrapped around the outside.  Your bed might be too big for temporary fencing if you don’t happen to have any lying around, but stakes and strings should help.  Do you have some thick mulching material you can add right at the base of the stalks?

I read all the time on various garden sites recommendations about the “Three Sisters” method, but I’ve never done it.  I’ve also read that modern sweet corn with its shorter days to maturity doesn’t support aggressive pole beans nearly so well as traditional field corn that grows a much thicker, taller stalk.  That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

How is the garden looking now that it’s had a couple of days since the highest heat?


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## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Sounds like you had some really healthy peas, though!
> How is the garden looking now that it’s had a couple of days since the highest heat?


Yes, the pea crop was epic this year. Overall it looks like the tomatoes suffered the most in the heat. They are recovering, but with curled leaves at this point. I sprayed them with some dilute epsom salts today. Ironically, the plants in the greenhouse look better. The shade cloth worked really well. Both plants are now competing with the cucumber for rafter space. Speaking of which, it didn't slow down. 
this was yesterday's harvest and there are a lot more coming. 


I am happy to say that the new bed is thriving and the plants look better in there. I harvested some beets from the cinderblock holes and grilled them last night. 


Zucchinis are now going full steam. And last but not least, the pie cherries are coming on fast and furious. I picked a batch yesterday and will do another this weekend.


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## DuaeGuttae

Thanks for the photographic update, Begreen.  Those cucumbers are beauties!  What do you do with so many?

Those beets look great as well!  I’m glad the new bed is working out so well.  

I’m also glad the cherries made it through the heat.  I actually heard a report one day on the radio on the hardships of cherry growers and pickers in Washington during the heatwave.

I just spent some time cleaning and rearranging our pantry to make room for multiple baskets of tomatoes.  I prefer to store the fruit in a single layer, and I’m hoping to make salsa in the next day or two with the paste tomatoes.  I need to keep an eye on them, but it was too much for the kitchen counter.  That’s a good problem to have.


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## begreen

Frankly, we have never had such a prolific crop. We make cucumber salads and are thinking of a cucumber soup. We give away them to family, friends and folks in need.
Yes, the berry and fruit farmers got hit hard. Some are saying the crop got wiped out by the heat. Our container raspberry got hit hard, but so far our Autumn Bliss raspberries look ok. The garden blueberries appear to have taken the heat in stride. I have a heavy mulch on that bed.


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## DuaeGuttae

I just posted a couple of links in the cooking thread that have cucumber recipes in case you need some inspiration.

My son loves to play in our next door neighbors’ garden paths (with permission).  We were there this morning and got a text from the neighbor saying that she was feeling ill.  I asked my five year old what we could do to help Mrs. *, and  his answer was pretty telling:  “We could give her a cucumber.”  We’ve been giving lots away, too.

Tonight we had our first harvest of corn, just one cob, though.  In the past I’ve made the mistake of leaving some too long while waiting to have six cobs ready.  This one was ready, and others will take longer, so this one got harvested.  I used it in a pan of vegetables, so we all got to share it.


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## begreen

I'm gonna need the recipes. Picked 3 more cukes tonight. Will be having a cucumber salad tonight and many more nights too.


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## begreen

I got a lot of prep work done yesterday in the garden, removed bolted lettuce and fed the bed in preparation for #5 planting of carrots. I am toying with the idea of planting more beets too and some bush beans to complement the pole bean crop. I also harvested the softneck garlic crop. It was a good one this year. Nice plump heads.


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## DuaeGuttae

Good thing you’ve had two good garlic crops this year.  You’ll need it to make pickles!

My garlic completely failed this year.  Most of it never even came up, and the ones that did didn’t last.  My first couple of years with garlic in Texas weren’t great, but my husband encouraged me to try one more time.  I made a point of finding a local organic farm selling a good variety for the area.  I vernalized it in the refrigerator for eight or ten weeks, I believe, and planted it extra deep (as directed for so far south).   I don’t know where the failure was.  I’m not sure whether I’ll try again this fall or not, but I do so love raising my own garlic.  We use it a lot.

I pulled some bolted lettuce yesterday, too, after cutting off the seed heads.  I was scavenging nitrogen sources for the last bed of our new ones.  We topped the others off with finished aged manure compost that we purchased and planted out cowpeas and Sunn Hemp as cover crops, but there wasn’t really enough compost for that last bed.   We haven’t planted anything, and we’ll continue to add as we go.  We started on the fencing but will need to do a lot more work on Monday.

Unfortunately something has been digging in my very fenced established garden again.  It looks like armadillo damage, but I haven’t a clue how they’re getting in if it is.  There were also holes dug in pots and planters that stand more than a foot off the ground.  Would an armadillo do that?  What other animal would dig so deep but not eat the tomatoes or corn?


----------



## clancey

Why is not your garlic growing like Begreen's whats happening there....My tomato is still growing and there is one very tiny tomato on it maybe two and I have come to the conclusion that I hate weeding...clancey


----------



## begreen

I'm sorry to hear you are still having critter problems. Do you have metal fencing laid flat on the ground outside of the fence perimeter as a dig barrier? Do you have a trail cam to catch the culprits?


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I can't catch a break this year.  We were on vacation this last week.   The fence failed again.   Broccoli, beans and kale got hit.    Hey even hit the onions again!  I'm going to tear out all my fence and redo it.   They took beans off the pots right against the deck.   Must have been the lack of fresh dog smell.


----------



## begreen

Oh no! Deer are always lurking around our fence perimeter. The week before last our neighbor's locust came crashing down on our west fence. 3 deer got in. Fortunately, they only ate some strawberries and the lower leaves on a cherry tree. It took a while to get them out and for the neighbor to cut back the tree and fix the fence. I was out of town so my wife had to deal with it. The mama deer kept breaking in. My wife was exhausted by the end of the day after repeatedly chasing them out and poured herself a glass of wine, then went to pick berries in the main garden. There, between two beds was a very young fawn. That was why mom kept breaking in.  Thankfully she was able t scoot it out and peace returned.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Wow, I bet mamma deer was frantic!

I harvested all the softneck garlic.  The tops died back.  I forked them out with the kid and they are drying.   Theyre a bit small.  I'm not sure if our weird weather is to blame or something else.  I'm not worried though.  We got more than enough to cover our needs.  If I need to buy some seed garlic this fall so be it.  It's not expensive.  The hardneck is still going strong.  

I weed wacked down all the leafless beans and broccoli.   I'll replant beans and can still get a harvest.  The kale will come back.  The browsing will only encourage it.  

I have lots of tomato flowers.  It should be a great harvest for them.    The zucchini really took off this late week and I have a small 3" zucchini on1.

I did a quick weeding around the squash and cukes.  Nothing really happening with them yet.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Why is not your garlic growing like Begreen's whats happening there....My tomato is still growing and there is one very tiny tomato on it maybe two and I have come to the conclusion that I hate weeding...clancey



No idea.  Garlic is a crop that is planted in the fall, comes up either then or waits the winter and comes up in early spring.  I don’t know why mine didn’t make it.  My climate is really not ideal for garlic.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> No idea.  Garlic is a crop that is planted in the fall, comes up either then or waits the winter and comes up in early spring.  I don’t know why mine didn’t make it.  My climate is really not ideal for garlic.


Have you read A Garlic Testament? It is a great book about growing in the Southwest. The topic is garlic, but the growth is in the gardener too.









						A Garlic Testament
					

From his New Mexico mountain home, award-winning author Stanley Crawford writes about growing garlic and selling it.  "To dream a garden ...



					www.goodreads.com


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I'm sorry to hear you are still having critter problems. Do you have metal fencing laid flat on the ground outside of the fence perimeter as a dig barrier? Do you have a trail cam to catch the culprits?



We did have a nice break from it for about seven weeks.  That’s when we redid all of our fencing and did just what you suggested: laid a 2 inch mesh going out a foot from the posts in an L-pattern.  That’s reburied in mulch, and there’s no sign of any digging under the fence.  That’s what’s so weird.

I don’t know that the photos show what’s happening in the garden, but it’s definitely a digger, not a fruit eater.  For that I’m thankful, even though I don’t love the harm to the roots.




The hole near the two butternut squash goes down about six inches, if not more.  That kind of hole keeps showing up all over the garden.  I’ve also been finding a number of the olla lids knocked off, whether on purpose or by accident, I don’t know.  I think the creature likes the moist soil near the ollas.

We had returned our neighbors’ live traps a couple of weeks ago since we weren’t having success, and they were thinking of trying to trap in their garden.  They weren’t using them, though, and let us reborrow them.  We set them near our shed last night and put fencing across the whole area to separate the shed from the garden.  No success and holes in the garden.  Tonight they’re blocking one of the garden pathways with one open each direction.  We’ll see.

I’ve just started doing more serious research on game cameras as we’ve decided that we will make that small investment.  Our biggest issue will be getting a photo through all the vertical gardening I do.  The foliage is pretty lush right now.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I can't catch a break this year.  We were on vacation this last week.   The fence failed again.   Broccoli, beans and kale got hit.    Hey even hit the onions again!  I'm going to tear out all my fence and redo it.   They took beans off the pots right against the deck.   Must have been the lack of fresh dog smell.



I’m am so sorry to hear that.  Was it deer or those voracious bunnies?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Oh no! Deer are always lurking around our fence perimeter. The week before last our neighbor's locust came crashing down on our west fence. 3 deer got in. Fortunately, they only ate some strawberries and the lower leaves on a cherry tree. It took a while to get them out and for the neighbor to cut back the tree and fix the fence. I was out of town so my wife had to deal with it. The mama deer kept breaking in. My wife was exhausted by the end of the day after repeatedly chasing them out and poured herself a glass of wine, then went to pick berries in the main garden. There, between two beds was a very young fawn. That was why mom kept breaking in.  Thankfully she was able t scoot it out and peace returned.







It’s fawn season down here in Texas, too.  For weeks a doe has been leaving this very little one near my new garden beds.  I was so surprised the day I first spotted her (first photo) because I had walked by any number of times getting tools and soil amendements and turning on and off water at the rain barrel.  It was the day I harvested the last of the potatoes, I think, and turned over the bed, so there was lots of travel by that spot.  I think the fawn was there for nearly eight hours that day and was back the next.

A couple days later my husband and I were out in the early morning talking about nitrogen sources to layer in the beds.  It was only after we finished the conversation and were walking toward the house that I realized there was the fawn in the very bed we had been discussing.

It got to the point that my five year old went out every morning on tiptoes and looked inside and in between the beds to see if “Fawn” was there.  He finally got close enough that she popped up one day and ran.  We see any number of fawns each day, but we like to think the one in our “Northern Wasteland” (all our property is named by section) is the same one.

Just today my husband and I worked on getting up full-fledged fencing around the new garden beds (including one foot that goes straight out around the perimeter).  We used materials that were already on hand on our property (except for buying extra zip ties), and we nearly finished.  The tube gate needs to have smaller fencing secured to it, but we got driven in by a thunderstorm. I’m sitting here rejoicing in some good rain.

We planted cowpeas and Sunn Hemp in the new beds on Saturday as a cover crop.  I was really surprised to see the Sunn Hemp already up a couple of inches this morning.  It kept us working on that fencing through the humidity.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Have you read A Garlic Testament? It is a great book about growing in the Southwest. The topic is garlic, but the growth is in the gardener too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Garlic Testament
> 
> 
> From his New Mexico mountain home, award-winning author Stanley Crawford writes about growing garlic and selling it.  "To dream a garden ...
> 
> 
> 
> www.goodreads.com



I’ve never heard of it even.   I’ll look into finding a copy, though.  Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> I’ve never heard of it even.   I’ll look into finding a copy, though.  Thanks for the suggestion.


It's a good read. Came out about 20 yrs ago.


----------



## clancey

My first tomato...the plant is still alive--amazing...clancey


----------



## begreen

If you want to reduce weeding, put straw or grass clippings mulch several inches deep around the base of the plant and outward for about 18". That mulch will hold back weeds and help retain moisture in the soil. Another option would be to take a 24" square of cardboard and cut a slot to the middle, with a 2" hole in the middle. Slip the cardboard under the plant thru the slot, then weigh down the corners with rocks or landscape fabric staples.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

I think the cardboard would be better.   Too thick of grass clipping can become anaerobic.


----------



## clancey

Yea I think I will do a cardboard cut out and lay rocks on top of it..--yes...Thanks everyone..clancey


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I think the cardboard would be better.   Too thick of grass clipping can become anaerobic.


I have never had that issue, but we are in a much dryer climate during the growing season. Our lawn is going brown about now. The only issue I have had is with bird (mostly robins) digging up the mulch and burying nearby leaves in it.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Yea I think I will do a cardboard cut out and lay rocks on top of it..--yes...Thanks everyone..clancey



Your tomato plant is looking great, Mrs. Clancey.  Good work!

I, too, like the cardboard idea, but I think I’d choose to use wood chips over top.  They help hold in moisture really well in my dry climate, and they’ll help keep things a little bit cooler in the intense sun.  Just be sure to leave enough space right around the plant’s main stem so that water can flow easily down to the roots.  When you set up the cardboard and whatever topping you use, water it well.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, it might be totally different in a dryer climate.   Right now we've come into what feels like monsoon season.    I've used the grass to knock down weeds before and it does a great job.   But it was in spots where I didn't worry about it going nasty on me.


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## clancey

Maybe I will get my special low chair and just weed it and that would be more simple and chips would keep it moist so I'll see but in the meanwhile I fed it again and gave that squirrel on my fence my bad look--lol...Tomorrow I will go to the plant area and get something for my baby plant so that it will stay nice and moist and weed free..I have tiny sea shells in it for decoration but can't see them now but I will fix that.. I never in my whole life ever heard or knew anything about "white tomatoes" I have had "green tomatoes" fried but never knew anything about those white ones---where can I get them?  clancey
'


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Maybe I will get my special low chair and just weed it and that would be more simple and chips would keep it moist so I'll see but in the meanwhile I fed it again and gave that squirrel on my fence my bad look--lol...Tomorrow I will go to the plant area and get something for my baby plant so that it will stay nice and moist and weed free..I have tiny sea shells in it for decoration but can't see them now but I will fix that.. I never in my whole life ever heard or knew anything about "white tomatoes" I have had "green tomatoes" fried but never knew anything about those white ones---where can I get them?  clancey
> '



If that squirrel is a distant cousin of my squirrels, he’s waiting for a ripe tomato.  You’ll check on the plant one evening and think, ”I’ll pick that tomorrow.”  The next morning you’ll go out to find the tomato gone from the plant, only to find its mangled remains somewhere else in your yard.  That’s a squirrel for you.

Our white tomatoes are on a plant that I grew from seed.  They start out green just like any other tomato but instead of turning red, they actually lighten up.  Ours ended up being an ivory or cream color.

My mother got the seed in a packet that came free with an order she placed this spring.  She and my eight year old daughter are pen pals, and so she included a few seeds in a letter for my daughter.  We have just one plant growing in our garden for that reason.

It did dawn on me this morning that I also grow a pepper plant that has a good number of albino genes, so some of the hot peppers end up pretty pure white as well.  I don’t have enough white tomatoes to do it, but I thought it would be pretty funny to make a white salsa.

Growing plants from seeds takes some work, but it does allow for more variety.  



			http://www.thisgardenisillegal.com/2009/08/white-tomesol-tomato-hannas-tomato-tastings-2009.html
		










						From the Victory Garden: If you like it hot
					

Editor’s note: This post is the second in a series of monthly posts exploring the work of Smithsonian Gardens and its relationship to American history. If you like it hot, you’ll love the fish pepper (Capsicum annuum var. annuum), a little striped pepper that packs quite a wallop! But even if...




					americanhistory.si.edu


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## DuaeGuttae

@clancey, I thought you might want to see the white pepper I have.  The three on the left are all immature peppers.  Some are more green; some are more white.  The fourth pepper is starting to ripen.  The fifth is completely ripe.  These are hot peppers and can be eaten at any of the stages pictured above.


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## clancey

Now that's one thing that i think I could grow in abundance for my neighbor years ago grew some green ones and Oh he had soooo many..But for now I am happy with my tomato plant and bush...This weeding is hot and hard work...lol lol..I tried putting one of my birdie cages (large oned)  over the tomato plant to guard it from the  squirrel but the plant was taller than the cage so I will figure out something else to protect my tomato's from the squirrel but right now when I see him or her I give him or her my mean look and its working...lol  Your peppers are beautiful...clancey


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## begreen

The new cement block bed is having a great start. It is now in full production. We have harvested beets and strawberries so far. Peppers will be next. Amongst all the foliage and dominating nasturtiums are carrots, beets, strawberries, onions, peppers, eggplants, tomatoes, and two cantaloupes. The bed gets warm and the plants love it. The only caveat is that the perimeter holes need daily watering. Thankfully I have drip irrigation on a timer for that. By next year I may seal the outside of the bed to reduce evaporation through the block walls.


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## clancey

Pretty..clancey


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## Woodsplitter67

I pulled some garlic, I have alot of string beans that I picked with alot on the way. Picked Cucumbers tomato and eggplant. My garden project that I did has REALLY PAID OFF. All my plants are still alive. I normally louse many plants if we get heavy rain. Last Friday we got 4 inches of rain over only a couple hours and it all runs to the back of my property.  Right after the rain stopped I went out back to where the garden is and the water was 4 inches deep and running off to the farm field,  with in a few hours there was no paddling. My garden is now slightly raised and is in great shape


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## Woodsplitter67

I did some picking in the farm field behind my house... I got some of the sweetest corn yesterday as well as cantaloupe..


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## Woodsplitter67

This is what my street looks like. I took these pics on the way back from the range this morning. The kids and I got some good family time in, dad needs it. The first 2 pics are peppers  and the 2nd 2 pics are tomatos  the peppers are about 250 acres  and the tomatoes are roughly 400 acres


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## Woodsplitter67

I am starting my plants for the greenhouse for over the fall and early winter. I am not starting from seed this year. I am taking cutting from the existing tomato plants in the garden and rooting them and will be potting them up


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> The new cement block bed is having a great start. It is now in full production. We have harvested beets and strawberries so far. Peppers will be next. Amongst all the foliage and dominating nasturtiums are carrots, beets, strawberries, onions, peppers, eggplants, tomatoes, and two cantaloupes. The bed gets warm and the plants love it. The only caveat is that the perimeter holes need daily watering. Thankfully I have drip irrigation on a timer for that. By next year I may seal the outside of the bed to reduce evaporation through the block walls.
> 
> View attachment 280129



Begreen, that is just beautiful.  I love nasturtiums! I haven’t grown them successfully in Texas (deer eat them, too), but I need to try again.  They’re just gorgeous and such a fun addition to salads.

Do you have a second new bed in the back there where the corn is?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I pulled some garlic, I have alot of string beans that I picked with alot on the way. Picked Cucumbers tomato and eggplant. My garden project that I did has REALLY PAID OFF. All my plants are still alive. I normally louse many plants if we get heavy rain. Last Friday we got 4 inches of rain over only a couple hours and it all runs to the back of my property.  Right after the rain stopped I went out back to where the garden is and the water was 4 inches deep and running off to the farm field,  with in a few hours there was no paddling. My garden is now slightly raised and is in great shape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 280165
> View attachment 280166
> View attachment 280167
> View attachment 280168



Beautiful harvests, Woodsplitter.  That’s wonderful news that you are quite literally seeing the fruits of all that hard work.  We had  a good bit of rain this week, too, including over four inches of rain overnight one night, enough to flood our main road.  I was grateful for our raised beds in that scenario.  My only problem has been some tomatoes cracking.  I haven’t had to deal with that before in Texas much, but I’ll take the rain and the break from watering anyway.  (Not that I have any choice.)  It’s been a good garden season for me, but some of it is winding down now.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I am starting my plants for the greenhouse for over the fall and early winter. I am not starting from seed this year. I am taking cutting from the existing tomato plants in the garden and rooting them and will be potting them up
> View attachment 280179



I love that method of starting plants.  I have just a couple of tomato seeds started inside now, but I plan to root suckers off those plants to put in the garden as my spring crop gets finished up.

I helped my next door neighbors plant suckers from my plants this past May.  They have twenty-two plants in their garden that came from my trimmings, and they all have fruit on them now.  Particularly impressive is one bed that has eleven Sunrise Bumble Bee cherry tomato plants that all came from just two seeds that I planted for myself.  Their grandkids are going to be visiting soon, so I sure hope that the fruits will ripen while they’re here to enjoy them.


----------



## Woodsplitter67

it's been an excellent growing season so far this year. Just recently we have been having frequent rain but may and June were pretty dry. which has been great for growing.  The farmers as well as myself haven't had to do much in the way of spraying.. I did my first fungicide last week to the tomatoes and sprayed my first insecticide last week also.. what did you think of the pictures of the fields on my street


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## DuaeGuttae

We got a camera set up in the garden yesterday evening.  Here’s what it caught.  (It also saw deer outside the garden.  No surprise there.)  I’m really glad I harvested three nice ears of corn last night before this guy visited again.

I had returned the neighbors’ traps to their garden earlier this week as they had had some digging.  There was a raccoon in one this morning.  I don’t know if it’s the same raccoon or if there’s a big nursery around.  I’ll use the camera again tonight and see if there’s another visitor.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> it's been an excellent growing season so far this year. Just recently we have been having frequent rain but may and June were pretty dry. which has been great for growing.  The farmers as well as myself haven't had to do much in the way of spraying.. I did my first fungicide last week to the tomatoes and sprayed my first insecticide last week also.. what did you think of the pictures of the fields on my street



My first thought about the fields was, “They do call New Jersey the garden state.”  My next thought was to try to figure out how big 250 acres and 400 acres was in terms of something I can relate to.    I think the neighborhood in which I live (which I consider quite sizeable) might be around 250 acres (or smaller).  I think adding the tomato field and the pepper field together would be about a square mile. Does that sound right?


----------



## Woodsplitter67

DuaeGuttae said:


> My first thought about the fields was, “They do call New Jersey the garden state.”  My next thought was to try to figure out how big 250 acres and 400 acres was in terms of something I can relate to.    I think the neighborhood in which I live (which I consider quite sizeable) might be around 250 acres (or smaller).  I think adding the tomato field and the pepper field together would be about a square mile. Does that sound right?



so yes that's pretty close to a square mile.. its alot of produce..


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## EatenByLimestone

I planted some grass today, lol.     Figured I should take advantage of the monsoon.


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## clancey

Everything sure does look beautiful and those veg in the picture of four of them I could eat now...just wonderful...gardening is such hard work but it keeps you independent and healthy and sane...I love those fields not a building in sight good for you...Just beautiful..clancey


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Begreen, that is just beautiful.  I love nasturtiums! I haven’t grown them successfully in Texas (deer eat them, too), but I need to try again.  They’re just gorgeous and such a fun addition to salads.
> 
> Do you have a second new bed in the back there where the corn is?


No, the corn is just extras I had so I put them in big pots. I had some extra blocks that I put around them to protect from the weedeater. I don't think they will bear anything worth mentioning.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> No, the corn is just extras I had so I put them in big pots. I had some extra blocks that I put around them to protect from the weedeater. I don't think they will bear anything worth mentioning.



I had the same issue.  I soaked and sprouted a bunch of four-year-old corn seeds in April, expecting to see not great germination.  Well, it turned out to be about 97%, so I ended up putting a good number of seeds in the extra holes in our cinderblock bed.  I don’t think that they have the root space and nutrients they need because they’re awfully spindly, but it’s interesting to see what they do.

You can’t really see the herbs in the back behind the Roselle/Hibiscus plants, but I’ve  got thyme, mint, and oregano back there as well as some za’atar (Syrian oregano), lavender, and dwarf ajicito peppers closer to the front.  Some of the Roselle got torn up and broken this week, and the bushiest plant got bent way over by the runoff from the roof when we had four inches of rain overnight last week.  The good news is that the bed absorbed that runoff and we didn’t have the flooding problem we’ve had in the past in that corner.   The Roselle is beginning to stand back up now.


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## DuaeGuttae

We had another good harvest this morning.  I’m afraid I haven’t been able to keep up with the cucumbers.  I gave some away this morning but still have more than I need.  We’ll have a cucumber and tomato salad for dinner tonight.

My cherry tomatoes are doing pretty well, though I am still having splitting on some varieties after all the rain last week.  Some of the larger tomatoes are looking strange, though.  These three are from a Thessaloniki plant that looks pretty healthy, but the tomatoes seem stunted and aren’t ripening to red.  Is this a symptom of some sort of disease?  Heat stress?  (It hasn’t been as hot here as it normally would be, but tomatoes also often give up in July when the weather is normal.). I’ll keep these inside for a couple of days to see what happens.


----------



## fbelec

i used to get splitting up here in mass but that was because the tomato was warm and either i hit it with cold water from the hose or it would go from steaming hot to a thunder shower with cold rain and that would do it. those that are not turning red look weird i was told that if i put the tomatoes in a brown bag for a few days that would get them to turn red. hope you get it straighten out.


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## DuaeGuttae

We’ve definitely had more pop-up thunderstorms here recently than usual; I was attributing the splitting on the cherries to the rain.

I’m going to keep a close eye on the Thessaloniki tomato plants and fruits.  I just don’t want to be harboring a disease in my garden that will spread.

I normally turn the trail camera off first thing, but today I wanted to see if it would capture pictures of a butterfly.  The resolution isn’t great because I cropped a lot out, but it was still fun to see what it caught (along with hundreds of photos of plants waving in the wind).




It was another good harvest day today.  I’m very pleased with the shishito peppers.


----------



## begreen

Nice harvest. It looks like you may be getting ready to do some pickling. Right now we are getting zucchinis out of our ears from just 2 plants. Time to get creative with them.


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## fbelec

are those the peppers that are used for pepperoncino's


----------



## DuaeGuttae

fbelec said:


> are those the peppers that are used for pepperoncino's



They’re similar but not quite the same.  Here’s a nice article that covers both.









						This Chart Will Tell You Exactly How Spicy Your Favorite Pepper Is
					

Eyes watering? Mouth burning? Figure out your heat tolerance with this quick guide to pepper varieties.




					www.tasteofhome.com
				





Shishito is a Japanese frying pepper.  I’ve usually been blistering them in olive oil, but last night we did them with a tempura batter.




@begreen, I also had a little eggplant, zucchini, and okra and gave them the same treatment.  It was a nice variation.


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## clancey

My tomato plant really looks wild looking  and should I cut off or trim some of it's leaves on the bottom to make it look pretty..? clancey


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## fbelec

nice info on peppers. thanks duaeguttae


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> My tomato plant really looks wild looking  and should I cut off or trim some of it's leaves on the bottom to make it look pretty..? clancey
> 
> View attachment 280274



Tomatoes can be pretty wild in their growth.  Yours is looking nice and healthy.

The best thing you can do for a caged Celebrity plant is carefully to make sure that the branches don’t escape from the cage too soon.  If any are under the wires try to weave them back in so that they are directed upward before heading sideways.

At the very bottom of the plant you can trim away leaves that are under the flowering branches (or even trim a flowering branch if it’s quite low).  Sometimes soil splashing onto tomato foliage is a transmitter of tomato diseases, so that’s why it’s recommended to keep foliage higher away from the soil.  That’s also why mulch is recommended in addition to keep down weeds.

If any of the foliage starts to yellow at the bottom of the plant, you can carefully remove that.  So far I’m not seeing that in your picture.  Colorado’s dry air probably helps keep foliage diseases from spreading as easily as they do in humid places like the southeast.

There are all sorts of different views on pruning tomatoes and you’ll find lots of information about it on garden sites, but keep in mind that there are different types of tomato plants.  Celebrity is one that doesn’t benefit quite as much from pruning (a semi-determinate), but yours is growing great, so it might get bigger and wilder.  You can try to keep that wildness headed out the top of the cage.  You could even use garden twine to tie up branches if necessary.

If the appearance really bothers you and you want to prune just for aesthetics, you can.  Tomatoes are pretty hardy plants.  Just keep in mind that leaves are what feed the plant, and flowering branches are what produce fruit, so you don’t want to be too extreme.


----------



## clancey

Thanks that is very helpful information and I have been trying to shove the branches in the wire--lol and one branch I held up with a flower pot--lol---big branch and did not want to cut it--lol..enjoying my gardening adventure here..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Some alsotrim out the suckers.  I normally start each season doing this, but lose interest part way through.


----------



## clancey

What do you mean by suckers? I got two long curvy green poles today at home depot to hold the tomato plant stems if they get too high and i wanted some chips but they only had real big bags so I got some peat moss to put around the bottom so that I will not have to weed them as much and if I keep it wet will this be okay to put under my tomato plant--looks pretty this stuff...clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> What do you mean by suckers? I got two long curvy green poles today at home depot to hold the tomato plant stems if they get too high and i wanted some chips but they only had real big bags so I got some peat moss to put around the bottom so that I will not have to weed them as much and if I keep it wet will this be okay to put under my tomato plant--looks pretty this stuff...clancey



Suckers are branches that grow at an angle between the leaves and the main stalk of the tomato.  Each one actually has the potential to become another main stalk.  A lot of people (including me) prune out suckers early on to get a main stalk that is strong but then let them go later in the season.  Sometimes I let them go way too much, and that directs too much energy to the plant rather than the fruit.

There are about a bazillion videos on pruning tomatoes, but I watched a few and think I found a good one for you.  It would take only about ten minutes to watch, but you can learn a lot.  He goes over some tomato anatomy, including what a sucker is.  He also covers how to prune a determinate tomato sparingly, a different process from what you would want to do on a different type.

Your Celebrity plant that you are growing is classed as a determinate or semi-determinate plant.  It doesn’t mean it’s a small plant, but it will not vine endlessly.   You might want to do some pruning at the first foot or even eighteen inches up the plant, but on this kind of plant you don’t want to take out all the suckers.  If you can, watch the video, maybe even a couple of times, and ask questions here if you need more clarification.  I hope this helps.




I’ve never used peat moss as a mulch.  It can be difficult to get wet once it has dried out.  If you do decide to use it, ou might want to soak it in a bucket before you apply it.  Someone else might have better advice for you on that.


----------



## clancey

Thanks I will check that out and most eager to watch that video you offered...I like video's like that where one shares know how things with you...thanks a lot..clancey


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Some alsotrim out the suckers.  I normally start each season doing this, but lose interest part way through.


I trim our indeterminates regularly once every week or two.  Mostly to get the suckers out. I have 2 celebrity tomatoes and they are so thick that it is hard to figure out if or where to trim.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

so, its been raining the last 15 days non stop.    I grow in raised beds, so rain usually isn't an issue.   When the rain started, my cukes were in a well weeded bed.  Flowers were out and the female flowers were showing inch long cukes.  I checked on them and they liquefied.  Wtf!    I've never seen that before!

Zucchini in the next bed are doing awesome.   Little bit of powdery mildew on them, but I'm not complaining with the rain.   

Tomatoes are doing well, but I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to them with a fungus or something.   

By the end of the year I'll be down to the beans and okra in a couple containers.   When I take the dog out to go to the bathroom, I raid a handful of green beans.   A bright spot in the day, lol.

This year is traumatizing.


----------



## begreen

Yuck. Looks like you will finally be seeing a break for a bit Matt. Hope the garden plants recover quickly. Remove the bottom leaves from tomato plants to help air circulation.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Yeah, there's going to be a lot of weeding when I finally get out there again.


----------



## begreen

I hate weeding but a good hoe can make it tolerable.  I like stirrup hoes. As an alternative, maybe get a bunch of cardboard boxes and place them between the rows if possible.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I did a lot of weeding this morning.  It wasn’t in our raised beds, but is an area where we have young pomegranates growing.  There had been a diseased/dying shrubbery hedge there when we moved in.  We took that out and put in pomegranates.  We covered the little grass there was with cardboard and mulch, but that never stopped it.

I recently figured out that what I had though was some sort of ornamental grass is actually nutsedge.  It rained a little last night, so I took the opportunity of a cooler morning and softer soil to pull out lots.  I think I collected two five-gallon buckets full.  I then found everything I could to put down over the pulled spots to help keep light at bay: extra paving rock, thick doormats, parts of a wooden shipping crate.  I had to resort to some cardboard, but it will be a help.  It won’t win beauty contests, but I need to buy myself some time before it grows back.

I don’t have a before picture, but in this after picture, you can see the nutsedge near the driveway in the back.  I ran into a couple of fire ant nests on that side, so I cleared around the pomegranates as much as I could but will wait till another time to finish that job.  (The pomegranates are still young, and this closest one froze to the ground this winter when its covering blew off in the snowstorm.  Thankfully it has grown up again from the roots.)




Nutsedge is also growing in a mulched bed behind our house.  We have a lime tree planted there that also suffered during the freeze but is growing nicely now.   I need to clear around it again and see what I can use to help keep the sedge at bay.


----------



## begreen

Thick cardboard works well as a light block and even better under mulch. I keep an eye out for people giving away large boxes for appliances, etc. and have a stash of them for the gardens.


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## DuaeGuttae

I am a huge fan of cardboard and mulch (as you probably can tell from pictures where we have assembled our garden areas).  We used the last of the available cardboard from our move in putting up the new garden area.  We’ve actually done cardboard and mulch over this nutsedge twice now, not knowing what it was.   In some ways that probably helped it to thrive because of helping retain moisture, and it’s strong enough to poke through the cardboard.   Now that we know what the plant is (and just how tenacious it can be), we’ll have to be more disciplined it attacking it.  I just needed to buy myself some time in keeping it down, hence my drastic light and growth blocking measures of yesterday.   

I cleared around the lime tree this morning, but there’s more to do in that large bed.  I’m thinking of asking our new neighbors who moved in May if they have any more boxes I can have.


----------



## begreen

If you have a buy nothing, or freecycle, or next door neighbor network, post on it that you are looking for large cardboard. Around here, electric bikes are getting more common. Those RAD bike boxes are tough and big. Stores and food banks can also be a good source of cardboard boxes.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> If you have a buy nothing, or freecycle, or next door neighbor network, post on it that you are looking for large cardboard. Around here, electric bikes are getting more common. Those RAD bike boxes are tough and big. Stores and food banks can also be a good source of cardboard boxes.



I’ll keep that in mind.  I did pick up some cardboard boxes from our local farm store co-op today.  They get deliveries from local farms on Wednesday afternoons and are only open Wednesday afternoons and evenings and Thursday mornings.  I was able to get some good sturdy cardboard when I went to pick up my milk today.  They aren’t huge boxes, but they’ll help, and they won’t be in a dumpster.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

We had a small gentle rain just as it was getting dark last night.  It was a little cooler this morning, and the garden just seemed particularly lovely.  I took some extra pictures just because I was enjoying the beauty.









My cucumbers have dying leaves, but they are still producing strongly.  Our soil temperatures are far below average for this time of year, and that and the lack of drought must be helping.  I harvested nine good slicers this morning and have more developing fast.

Some of my tomatoes are finishing up, and others are showing signs of decline.  I’m starting just a few seeds inside that I’ll transplant into the garden later when there’s more room.


----------



## begreen

Very nice. It's cool seeing those trellises fill out. And we have the same purple zinnias. I grew a lot of them because my wife loves cut flowers.


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## clancey

This gardening is hard work and I toiled all day out in my garden..I fed my tomato plant and made it look decorated..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Very nice. It's cool seeing those trellises fill out. And we have the same purple zinnias. I grew a lot of them because my wife loves cut flowers.



I bought a package of orange and purple zinnia seed for $1.49 seven years ago.  We have enjoyed them ever since, often letting them reseed.  I have some yellow ones now, too, from a free seed pack I received this year.  I don’t give a lot of space to flowers, but I love having some in the garden.  The butterflies and hummingbirds and bees enjoy it, too.

My husband and I spent a lot of time in the gardens yesterday.  We watered thoroughly, including pouring some thistle tea into our rain barrel and using the dilute solution on all the beds.  That was pretty smelly, but the plants look happy.

We also added trellises to the new beds.  We have cowpeas growing in three of the beds and some pumpkins started in the fourth.  We’ve loved having the trellises in the existing garden.  They give us more space, add some visual interest, and give me a place to hide in the shade, which I really appreciate.  The summer sunshine has come in at more normal levels just the past couple of days.  I got a little sunburned yesterday.




@clancey, your tomato is looking great.  I’m not sure what you’re feeding it, but you might want to back off if it’s a high nitrogen fertilizer (the first number of the NPK rating on the package).  You want the plant to concentrate on flowering and fruiting at this point.  It looked like there was a nice tomato toward the bottom.


----------



## clancey

Its a secret food and thanks for the up and up...Your trellises are just beautiful and well planned..Enjoyed the pictures..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

I needed some hot peppers for a recipe today, and I wanted to lighten the load on my two fish pepper plants.  Both the white and the green are immature peppers (I have two plants, and one is much lighter than the other), but they both ripen to red.  Something has been taking bites out of my red peppers, so I brought in a bunch to finish up ripening in the pantry.  I plan to make some hot sauce.  (These are Serrano-type heat.)


----------



## DuaeGuttae

I think I had forgotten what Texas has been like in the summers prior to this year.  I knew it was hot and dry and brutal, but I had forgotten just what it really felt like.  Just this past week the weather has become more typical of what I’ve experienced in previous summers, and my garden and I are both suffering for it.  I don’t have shade cloth on my garden right now, and I was not enjoying needing to add water to my ollas this morning when I had just filled everything on Saturday.  

I’ve removed some tomatoes from containers on the deck because they were using too much water,  and I’ve been pulling or cutting back other plants in the garden because they’re not going to give me a big enough harvest for it to be worth the resources to keep them going at this point (zucchini, various tomatoes).  I’ve been amazed at how long my cucumbers have kept producing, but I think they’re really on the decline now.

My pole beans still look pretty good, and I’ll need to try to harvest them this evening when there’s more shade.  I’m curious to see if they’ll keep producing in the high heat.  The okra and sweet potatoes should like it as long as I keep them watered.


----------



## begreen

Do you grow any melons or cantaloupe? I have never tasted a store-bought cantaloupe that came close to what a good homegrown one tastes like. The flavor is much more intense.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Do you grow any melons or cantaloupe? I have never tasted a store-bought cantaloupe that came close to what a good homegrown one tastes like. The flavor is much more intense.



I’ve never tried growing cantaloupe, though I grew up eating them out of my mom’s garden, and I agree there is no comparison.  We’ve grown Sugar Baby the past couple of years because I had an old packet of seeds.  This year we decided to go for a larger variety, Crimson Sweet, that is recommended for this area.  I only have two plants that were seeded in mid June once I finished harvesting the potatoes so there is no fruit set that I have seen, but we are having flowers.


----------



## begreen

There are lots of flowers on our cantaloupes and hopefully, the pollinators are hard at work. I did see a honey bee on a flower today.  I am trying Hale's Best this year because I couldn't get a Sarah's Choice plant from our local nursery this year.


----------



## clancey

My tomato plant going crazy had to tie it up more and feed it some--has about 18 different sizes of tomato's and the squirrel is watching and i am watching him...Plant still alive and when do these tomato's turn red for they are all green now..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> My tomato plant going crazy had to tie it up more and feed it some--has about 18 different sizes of tomato's and the squirrel is watching and i am watching him...Plant still alive and when do these tomato's turn red for they are all green now..clancey



I believe that Celebrity is sort of middle of the road when it comes to ripening (not super early, not super late).  That means that it’s probably about two and half months from the time you transplant a healthy plant (assuming no major stress or setbacks) to the time you can expect to begin to have ripe tomatoes.  I think you planted your plant about the end of May/beginning of June, so perhaps in mid-August.  Tomatoes and conditions all differ, so there is natural variation on either side of an expected maturity date, of course.

Once a tomato starts to “blush” or show a color change from green to red, you can pick the tomato and bring it inside to let it finish ripening on the counter.  It doesn’t need sun at that point, just decent warmth (and not too much heat either).  If you wait too long to pick, you might find that the squirrel decides to sample it before you do.  Don’t pick a tomato that is entirely green, though, if you want to make sure it ripens.

We just had our first ripe tomato from one of our slightly later maturing varieties, (German) Orange Strawberry.  My younger daughter chose the seeds years ago for our garden in Virginia, and we’ve never successfully grown it before  in Texas.  (We tried last year, but it got destroyed when a deer broke into the garden, and the replacement never took).  I started seed at the end of January, transplanted at the beginning of April, lost some fruit to Blossom End Rot, and finally harvested a blushing tomato this week.  It was ripe enough to slice yesterday, so my daughter and I used it and a bunch of other tomatoes to make a batch of “sun-dried” (dehydrated) tomatoes. 






This variety is not that well suited for my location in Texas, but this was really a beautiful tomato (despite some stink bug damage).  It was much more orange than the picture shows, and I really loved slicing the meaty interior.  There are some smaller ones on the vines, but I don’t know how they’ll do trying to mature in August.


----------



## clancey

What a trip with your tomato and I bet its really good too...Thanks for the information about my tomato plant and I'll just be patient and see what happens..I guess I can let that squirrel have one or two--lol.  You know a lot about plants you should have been a horticulturist which in my mind you already are..Yes..Thanks for the information and enjoy your eating and fooling around your garden..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

a cool video on German agroforestry.


there was a movie about 20 years ago called Fried Green Tomatoes.     they're supposedly tasty, but I've never tried them.


----------



## clancey

Good video and it makes sense --enjoyed..I love fried green tomato's and if my tomato's don't red I will fry them-lol  thanks clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@begreen, are you having another heat wave?

It’s hot down here in Texas but still below average for this time of year.  I just read an article that stated that the rain this summer in our area has exceeded what we received all of last year.  I think that’s why my garden has done well.  It has been dry since the last major storm at the beginning of the month, though.

Our cucumbers have finally petered out after having an amazingly long and productive harvest.  I might pull the vines today if I’m not too hot after doing other necessary work.  I’ve planted a couple of new ones for harvest later in the season.  Last week I removed pumpkin and butternut squash vines, and I also pruned back some tomato vines to encourage suckers for fresh growth.  I’m still harvesting lots of cherry tomatoes and a few smaller slicers.  I have new squash planted in one of our new raised beds.  The other three new beds are full of cowpeas and Sunnhemp.  The cowpeas in particular seem to be thriving.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> @begreen, are you having another heat wave?
> 
> It’s hot down here in Texas but still below average for this time of year.  I just read an article that stated that the rain this summer in our area has exceeded what we received all of last year.  I think that’s why my garden has done well.  It has been dry since the last major storm at the beginning of the month, though.
> 
> Our cucumbers have finally petered out after having an amazingly long and productive harvest.  I might pull the vines today if I’m not too hot after doing other necessary work.  I’ve planted a couple of new ones for harvest later in the season.  Last week I removed pumpkin and butternut squash vines, and I also pruned back some tomato vines to encourage suckers for fresh growth.  I’m still harvesting lots of cherry tomatoes and a few smaller slicers.  I have new squash planted in one of our new raised beds.  The other three new beds are full of cowpeas and Sunnhemp.  The cowpeas in particular seem to be thriving.


Heatwave, but not nearly as bad as the one in late June. This one is getting modified by an incursion of wildfire smoke from British Columbia and eastern WA.  That kept the sun tolerable. We reached around 85º instead of 95º.
I am envious of your second plantings. Ours consists of things that will survive the cool fall weather, so cabbage, broccoli, spinach, carrots, lettuce and beets.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Hetwave, but not nearly as bad as the one in late June. This one is getting modified by an incursion of wildfire smoke from Britich Columbia and eastern WA.  That kept the sun tolerable. We reached around 85º instead of 95º.
> I am envious of your second plantings. Ours consists of things that will survive the cool fall weather, so cabbage, broccoli, spinach, carrots, lettuce and beets.



I’m kind of yearning for fall crops, I have to admit, though I am glad to have a second chance at getting a little more food for the table and the freezer, mostly zucchini because I didn’t do as well with it this summer as I would have liked.  We have so much squash vine borer pressure that it’s hard.

My fall cucumber crop last year got hit so hard by thrips that it never produced.  I’m hoping to have a second round, but we’ll see how things go.  At least I have a bunch of pickles and dried cucumber chips.  My kids like both of those.

Yesterday my husband cut down half of our asparagus bed.  The ferns had largely turned brown.  I’m hoping that was just from age rather than some disease or disorder.  It may be that we’ll be able to harvest a fall asparagus crop from this part of the bed.  We’ll see.













						Fresh Garden Asparagus in September? Here's How
					

Backyard gardeners who grow asparagus eagerly anticipate the arrival of the first, crunchy spears in March and April. After all, it is ...




					farmerfredrant.blogspot.com


----------



## begreen

Wish I could send you cucumbers and zucchini. They are coming out of our ears right now. Tomato harvesting is also starying to gain steam. We will be making sauce this week and I harvested 4 pints of sungolds and sweet million cherry tomatoes tonight.


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## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Wish I could send you cucumbers and zucchini. They are coming out of our ears right now. Tomato harvesting is also starying to gain steam. We will be making sauce this week and I harvested 4 pints of sungolds and sweet million cherry tomatoes tonight.



Thanks, Begreen.  I was surprised to find two nice slicers on my dying vines this morning.  We pulled up only one dead one on Saturday and left the others, but I wasn’t really expecting to harvest anything from them.  I guess those cucumbers had been hiding under what leaves were still green.  There were also three picklers, and the vines are actually putting on new growth.  I do have a couple of seedlings now as well as a couple zucchini seedlings.  I just need to be faithful about not letting them get too dried out in the afternoon heat while they’re still so young.

This summer I decided to try my hand at growing tomatillos.  I had had two tomatillo plants I had set out in large pots.  I had started both from seed indoors, but one was growing much better than the other.  Yesterday I found the smaller one completely denuded of leaves.  I had seen some evidence of damage before, but this was a bit of shock.  I put a couple more seeds in the pot tonight, but I think that my bigger tomatillo is getting ready to flower and won’t be able to set fruit without a second plant to pollinate it.  I planted a couple of extra seeds in a third pot so that maybe I’ll have two mature at the same time.


----------



## clancey

Why my tomato plant is sooooo large it is taking up the whole side of the fence--lol  I must have about 30 or 40 tomato's on it but they are not that big and no color except green.. I managed to get one to eat after I left it on window to get more red and it was good but not that good--kind of different texture or something so I am waiting to see what these do on the plant. Maybe I should try to fry them or something like green fried tomato's...working on it...clancey


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## begreen

Did up a batch of bread and butter pickles yesterday. They are much more work than kosher style dill pickles which we have done 2 batches now.  I made the rounds and gave some bags of cukes and zukes to the neighbors. My wife is saying fewer cucumbers next year!
I jarred up the sauerkraut. It came out great! The new crock allowed me to do a large batch of about 15 lbs. of homegrown cabbage.

Fall planting continues. I have fall beets, spinach, broccoli, carrots, and cabbage in the ground now.


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## clancey

You people are really experts with this gardening stuff and I applaud you--just a wonderful talent to have...Pretty gardens too--good for you all...But I bet my one tomato plant up against one of yours will get more tomato's---a bet in the offering and the winner gets a tomato..Your gardens just sound wonderful and the food just terrific...and they are beautiful as well... Of course I will count the tomatoe"s lol lol


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## EatenByLimestone

Started harvesting peaches today.   They've started to fall off the tree and the birds are starting to nibble.    It's time.     We'll be processing for a while.


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## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> Started harvesting peaches today.   They've started to fall off the tree and the birds are starting to nibble.    It's time.     We'll be processing for a while.


What do you do with a boatload of peaches like that?


----------



## begreen

First tomato harvest besides the daily picking of cherry tomatoes.  It looks like the next harvest will be twice this size. we'll be making sauce for the next few weeks now along with canning up dilly beans, making blueberry jam, peach pies, and pickling more cukes.


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## clancey

That's a lot of beautiful tomato's you have --what kind are they?. I am still waiting for mine to get a little red...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

I brought up 2 large bags to the lake to try to give them away.   I wasn't planning to go up, but I needed to get things set if that hurricane hits.   I filled  2 small frigerators in the basement.   We'll start processing them today now that I've gone over the house gutters and such so we take the rain as well as possible.


----------



## begreen

EatenByLimestone said:


> I brought up 2 large bags to the lake to try to give them away.   I wasn't planning to go up, but I needed to get things set if that hurricane hits.   I filled  2 small frigerators in the basement.   We'll start processing them today now that I've gone over the house gutters and such so we take the rain as well as possible.


Hope it weakens a lot before you get the rain and winds. Looks like it is expected to turn to the northeast somewhere east of Pittsfield.


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## EatenByLimestone

Only 1 band passed so far and that wasn't too bad.   I hope it stays that way.


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## clancey

Look what  I got--wow...There is about 50 or 60 more baby ones on the plant as well...Took some pictures for you all..My very first plant and now I do not have to buy tomatoes at the store...clancey




The picture attach file is working different so here is the second picture on this posting that I could not figure out how to post on the other one..These things take time for us not so good at computers...lol  Here is the plant picture.


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## EatenByLimestone

Congratulations!      The best wins are the ones that feed you!


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## clancey

This bunch tasted so good that I am now working on a green house,,,lol  kidding thanks,,clancey .


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## DuaeGuttae

@EatenByLimestone, those peaches look wonderful!  Do you ever make jelly from the peelings and pits?

@begreen, what a beautiful harvest of tomatoes!  I bet your sauce will be great.

@clancey, I’m so proud of you.  Thanks for posting a picture.  Seeing that you’ve been successful just made my day.

Over the weekend, when I was watering the garden, I noticed that one of my varieties of sweet potatoes was pushing its way up through the mulch.  Consulting my garden journal this morning, I saw that we’ve just hit the days to maturity, so I decided to dig in a couple of spots to see what size we were getting.  My nine year old helped me, and here’s what we found.




The three small ones came from a crowded corner, and there is some majoring nibbling going on.   I think we’ll end up harvesting sooner rather than later because of that.  The large ones ranges from 1 and 1/2 to 2 pounds, so I was pretty pleased.  My laundry room is hot and humid these days, so it will be a great spot to cure these.

My other variety just had smaller tubers, so we’ll wait a while on harvesting them.  Hopefully the underground munchers won’t be too industrious.




The measurements on the pastry mat are centimeters in most places, by the way, not inches.


----------



## begreen

clancey said:


> That's a lot of beautiful tomato's you have --what kind are they?. I am still waiting for mine to get a little red...clancey


Early Girl in the front, Celebrity in the middle, Caurulina and Pomidoro Squisito in the rear.


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## clancey

DG--sure hope those underground munchers are too hungry--what are they?  begreen--your front tomato's are my favorite--the larger ones and do these tomatoes taste real different from each other.. How many (ball park) do you think a tomato plant gives you with tomato's anyway--my bush might win the world record if all grows okay--lol  EBL- I love peach trees and I wish that I had one especially with all those peaches you have--so wonderful..You know our western slope is well known for fruit and stuff but I do not know about trees. Next year if I am still here maybe I will plant a peach tree or something...good for you and enjoy your wonderful peaches..clancey


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## begreen

In past taste testings, our favorites have been Early Girl and Blue Beech (a paste tomato). Celebrity was not included because we hadn't grown it for years. We have not grown the Caurulina and Pomidoro Squisito before and the Blue Beech are just ripening up now. We'll probably do this year's taste testing in a week or two when we have ripe specimens of each variety.


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## EatenByLimestone

We'll de pit and freeze a lot of the peaches to use over the winter and into next year.   The wife likes making peach cobbler, but jellies isn't a bad idea.   I could cook down a lot of them in that!


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## clancey

Yea you could make peach jalapeno jelly and do not know if that is a actual jelly but at the moment it sure sounds good to me..lol..I would eat it with scrabbled eggs..lol..I am hungry...clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> We'll de pit and freeze a lot of the peaches to use over the winter and into next year.   The wife likes making peach cobbler, but jellies isn't a bad idea.   I could cook down a lot of them in that!



I use the flesh of the peaches for preserves, but I use the peels and pits for jelly.  My peaches are clingstone ( the few I’ve ever saved from squirrels and freezes), so I do end up with a lot of flesh on them.  I don’t use pectin but add lemon juice.  Occasionally I’ve had problems with getting a good set, but then I just call it peach syrup for pancakes.









						Save the Scraps: Peach Peel Jelly - Reformation Acres
					

Frugal Peach Peel Jelly has a light, sweet peach flavor and is a great way to economize the peach harvest.




					www.reformationacres.com


----------



## begreen

The Hale's Best cantaloupes are getting big. The largest is about 6" across now. We have about 7 growing from one sprawling, happy plant.


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## clancey

My tomato plant is really putting out tomato's now and today I got my 22nd one and gave away a lot of these and the branches have lots on them --greenish now---and what am I to do?  Can I can them or something and do not want to waste them but they are sure good...Can I freeze them? Maybe I will look this up on the net--but plant doing real well and thanks everyone for your help because I never thought I could grow anything and keep it alive too..Right now I have a plastic container and a flower pot keeping these heavy leaves off the ground don't want any bugs to hurt it...worry wort here lol lol---when I get time I will take a picture but oh too many tomato's but the neighbors like them..lol clancey


----------



## kborndale

clancey said:


> My tomato plant is really putting out tomato's now and today I got my 22nd one and gave away a lot of these and the branches have lots on them --greenish now---and what am I to do?  Can I can them or something and do not want to waste them but they are sure good...Can I freeze them? Maybe I will look this up on the net--but plant doing real well and thanks everyone for your help because I never thought I could grow anything and keep it alive too..Right now I have a plastic container and a flower pot keeping these heavy leaves off the ground don't want any bugs to hurt it...worry wort here lol lol---when I get time I will take a picture but oh too many tomato's but the neighbors like them..lol clancey




Make tomato sauce


----------



## clancey

kborndale said:


> Make tomato sauce


----------



## clancey

That's an idea--I make pretty good tomato sauce and can I freeze it?  clancey


----------



## kborndale

Freeze or can


----------



## clancey

kborndale said:


> Freeze or can


Thanks..


----------



## EatenByLimestone

We dip them in boiling water to deskin them, there's a proper term for this, but at 530am it's eluding me at the moment.    Then we vacuum pack and freeze.    We've found them a few years old in the freezer and they're still good.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> That's an idea--I make pretty good tomato sauce and can I freeze it?  clancey



Congratulations on the abundance, Mrs. Clancey.  Tomato sauce freezes just fine, and that's my preferred method for preserving it.  I do can on occasion, but one needs to be sure to follow a recipe approved for canning (usually involves adding acid of some sort to ensure a low enough pH) and have the right equipment (large pot, new lids, and the like).  You'd have to be sure to adjust any canning times for your altitude if you did undertake it.  Higher altitudes require additions to processing time.

Having given my public service announcement, I'll reiterate that freezing is just fine and doesn't require as much attention to safety.  You can even freeze whole or quartered tomatoes and thaw them later for sauce making.  The skins will come off fairly easily after the freezing/thawing cycle.


----------



## clancey

Thanks I am doing some reading on how to can right now..Thanks for the lowering of the PH thing with citric acid..Just reading about it for now and not that ambitious at the moment..but maybe later I will get a itch maybe--lol..Thanks so much..clancey


----------



## clancey

I need to start cooking tomato sauce because my tomato plants keeps growing more tomato's--Here is a picture of the plant and I gave my neighbor 6 more tomato's and they love em...clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Holy smokes!   You got avocados off y o ur tomato plant!


----------



## clancey

lol--no came from the store too hard so I am trying to get them a bit softer..lol----This plant might in the end give me avocado's the way it is producing and now i have 8 more and I really need to get the sauce together so that I can do something with it..Once they start turning colors--they get on with life and ripen quickly..."yea avocado's came off of the plant after I fed it my magic ingredient"--lol thanks..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Those are some really nice looking tomatoes, Mrs. Clancey.  You’ve done a great job with your plant!

We’re still getting an abundance of cherry tomatoes off our plants (I need to harvest more this evening if it cools down a bit), but the large slicers are pretty much past.  Some plants I’ve pulled out.  Others I’ve pruned back to let new suckers grow for the fall.  I have a few that I started in the summer that are beginning to flower now.

The Roselle/Hibiscus Tea plants in the cinderblock bed in our back yard have begun to flower.  (They are daylight sensitive and don’t flower till the days start getting shorter.). The first picture was the first day I saw a bloom.  I had been thinking that the height of the bed combined with the height of the plants would necessitate my hauling out a ladder when it came time to harvest calyces for tea.  Now that more calyces have formed, though, the plants are bending over from the weight.  The blooms are small, I’m enjoying having the view of the plants through the dining room window.  The red calyces are pretty.


----------



## begreen

End of season is approaching. I will be out trimming the tomatoes tops and removing some foliage to improve light and air through the plants. Shorter days and cooler nights have brought in powdery mildew on the squashes. This may be the last week for the zucchinis.


----------



## Dobish

Its been a while, but I wanted to show off some pictures of the garden! its been thriving this year!



Photo was taken just after we pruned a little bit back. The Marigolds were OVER THE TOP HUGE!  They were mutant!



Finally able to walk through the veggies.



The Native plants have started to fill in, and its looking great! So many bees this season!


----------



## Dobish

begreen said:


> End of season is approaching. I will be out trimming the tomatoes tops and removing some foliage to improve light and air through the plants. Shorter days and cooler nights have brought in powdery mildew on the squashes. This may be the last week for the zucchinis.



I wish we had cooler nights, but we still had some mildew. Just cut back a lot, and we will see what happens. I don't understand how people have more than 1 zucchini plant.... so many zucchini this year! We have made about 30 quarts of tomato sauce this year so far.... mmmm


----------



## clancey

Dob--you wonder about one zucchini plant for people for too many of the little zucchini's in your area and I am wondering about my one tomato plant and will it every stop growing tomato"s for they just keep coming--today 12 more and last week 15 of them and now there are still maybe 30 green tomato's still turning---is this normal for just one tomato plant?  For this is the very first thing that I ever grew in  a garden and really do not know---the neighbors love me--every time I see them I give them some more tomato's and now i am thinking of going into business here--kidding . Yes I sure stopped feeding them my special ingredients.. clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

indeterminate tomatoes will theoretically keep producing for as long as they are alive.


----------



## clancey

Nice to know and I better get a thirty gallon trash can to keep them all in--lol...Anybody want to buy some of old clanceys tomato's --kidding....gosh...I should open up a store front here...clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Dobish said:


> I wish we had cooler nights, but we still had some mildew. Just cut back a lot, and we will see what happens. I don't understand how people have more than 1 zucchini plant.... so many zucchini this year! We have made about 30 quarts of tomato sauce this year so far.... mmmm


It looks like you are making excellent use of your space, Dobish.  Those photos are great.  Thanks for posting them.

Zucchini remains a challenge for me.  I had four plants this year and did produce enough that I still have some in the freezer, but we could have used much more.  I never felt overwhelmed (the way I did with cucumbers where I gave those away at every opportunity after filling all my pickle jars).  We have such intense Squash Vine Borer pressure down here that it’s hard to keep plants going for any period of time.  I had to cut borers out of stems by hand and keep burying stems to manage.  The borers even get into my butternut squash which is supposed to be resistant.  Oh well, ”resistant” is not the same thing as “immune.”

Your butternuts over your walkway look great.  It’s beautiful now with those fruits hanging down, but I bet it was stunning with the blossoms, too.


----------



## gggvan

tomatoes were literally a washout this year, probably 5-6 on four plants, folks who went with containers  got full bounties.


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## begreen

Dobish, the gardens look great. It's come a long ways since putting up the new addition. The raised beds are impressive. Are they lined?

We finally had rain in the past 2 days, about an inch a day. You can hear the plants and trees giving a collective sigh. But with the rain has come cooler nights in the low 50s. Our tomatoes are winding down quickly. I did a large picking before the rains and will be pulling out some plants this week. The Caurulinas produced big tomatoes, but many had yellow shoulders and the plants are done. The Pomidoro Squisto had serious blosssom rot in the beginning, but settled down and has produced cascades of 4" paste tomatoes. These are almost all meat, with little seeds and juice. The flavor is excellent. We have been making fresh salsa with them and ingredients from the garden. I pulled the greenhouse PS but have left a few outdoor ones to see how they fare this week. We have canned 20 pints of sauce so far. Will stop around 30. The Celebrities seem unfazed and just keep putting out big tomatoes,  the Early Girls too. The Sungolds and Sweet Millions are done. They started splitting as soon as the nightime temps dropped into the low 50s. Our peppers still are producing pretty well, but the eggplant is probably finished.

Cukes are approaching the end, except in the greenhouse where I am still picking 3-4 a week. The kosher dill pickles turned out great. I am spoiled by them. The zucchinis are struggling with powdery mildew, but still producing a few. I have sprayed everything with neem oil to keep the PM from spreading. The delicata is done, it wasn't the best year for them after the June heat bomb, but the butternuts are producing many huge squash. They are almost too big. The Hales Best cantaloupe is also winding down . I picked the first one before the rains and we will try it today. Next year I will go back to Sarah's Choice. Winter lettuce, carrots, beets, cabbage crops are doing well. The spinach bolted, will try again with a new planting this week.


----------



## gggvan

on the other hand, cucs and zucchini's did well, still pulling both.


----------



## begreen

It's good to hear that you got some crops. You've had a wet summer. My SIL north of Boston has been complaining most of the summer about rain. Her tomatoes were a washout too, in containers.


----------



## gggvan

begreen said:


> It's good to hear that you got some crops. You've had a wet summer. My SIL north of Boston has been complaining most of the summer about rain. Her tomatoes were a washout too, in containers.


My rain guage has been at overflow for the last 3 months. I was a yard sale in Hull, MA las week and the guy there had a flourishing garden tomato garden, roma, slicing, etc all in pots hung to main center line.


----------



## burr

I've got my winter garden started, traditionally LaborDay around here.  I planted my Collards a couple weeks before LaborDay (to see if I can get a harvest a little earlier).  Seems like I used to have fresh greens with our Thanksgiving dinner several seasons ago but not lately.

We have been dumped on with the rains here.  And like mostly, it's 'hurricane rains' with inches at a time.  Last couple, were like 4" in 40 minutes type stuff, then none for a time.  It's hard to farm around here.


----------



## begreen

We just ate our first garden cantaloupe of the season. Hales Best. Oh my goodness was it ever good! Full sized and extra sweet.


----------



## fbelec

begreen said:


> We just ate our first garden cantaloupe of the season. Hales Best. Oh my goodness was it ever good! Full sized and extra sweet.


is that the white one?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

burr said:


> I've got my winter garden started, traditionally LaborDay around here.  I planted my Collards a couple weeks before LaborDay (to see if I can get a harvest a little earlier).  Seems like I used to have fresh greens with our Thanksgiving dinner several seasons ago but not lately.
> 
> We have been dumped on with the rains here.  And like mostly, it's 'hurricane rains' with inches at a time.  Last couple, were like 4" in 40 minutes type stuff, then none for a time.  It's hard to farm around here.


Mmm.  I love collards, but I’ve never grown them.  I remember coming home from my first semester of college and getting to request the meal: chili, cornbread, and collard greens. 

  I have some Kale started now as well as a few other brassicas.  They’re on my deck under a table just getting used to outside.  Just today it has finally cooled off here.  A beautiful start to fall in our area.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We just ate our first garden cantaloupe of the season. Hales Best. Oh my goodness was it ever good! Full sized and extra sweet.



Yum.  Home-grown cantaloupe is the only type to have.

We harvested a couple of watermelons this week and ate the smaller one the other night.  It was quite tasty.





I’ve dried a couple batches of fish peppers when I’ve had my dehydrator running for tomatoes, and I ground them to a powder recently.  I’ve used it in guacamole, cheese sauce, and an orange chicken crock pot meal for which I also needed to harvest some ginger.  That was a root I pulled this afternoon from the planter on the deck.  Now that it’s getting cool, I‘ll have to give thought to harvesting or trying to overwinter.  I have a large pot and larger planter that are pretty full of sprouts.







We are trying for a round of potatoes in the fall.  We planted some small sprouted potatoes from the grocery store a couple of weeks ago.  A few have popped up.  I think they’ll like the cool down we’re having this week.


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

Watermelon radishes are the hit this year.  Huge and strange, but delicious!


----------



## begreen

Cool, I've seen them in the catalogs but haven't tried them. Do they taste like radishes, mild or spicy?


----------



## RockyMtnGriz

They taste just like a radish (which they are), and have a bright pink inside  The ones I have grown are quite mild, milder than the cherry ones that have seen less warmth, though they might be stronger if grown in a warmer climate, since they take a lot longer to grow than the cherry type.  I'm still harvesting them from my 4th of July (first frost free) sowing.

I'm still figuring out what works where in the garden.  The ones I planted where they got some afternoon shade have done the best, but I can't plant until July when the sun is intense.  Full sun might work if you could grow them in the spring/fall.

I'm thinking maybe radishes are easier if you can grow them outside of summer.  Last year, the whole row of watermelon radishes I planted immediately bolted, except for one small radish I got to eat.  The cherry ones I planted at the same time did fine.  This year, I staggered planting watermelon, and cherry radishes over about a month, the watermelons pretty much behaved, while some of the cherry sowings nearly all bolted, and yet some did fine.  There seems to be a time when a warm day or two will set them off, especially without afternoon shade.

It all worked out, I guess, because last year I got almost a lifetime supply of watermelon seeds, and this year I'm going to have a lifetime supply of cherry radish seeds!  The seed pods aren't bad eating either.


----------



## clancey

So far my plant has delivered about 148 tomato's plus there are about 52 more ones on the same plant--these are green different sizes...This plant has been productive I think and is this amount normal?  I went to wiki and got this address for tomato's.. How are your veg..doing?








						Celebrity tomato - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> So far my plant has delivered about 148 tomato's plus there are about 52 more ones on the same plant--these are green different sizes...This plant has been productive I think and is this amount normal?  I went to wiki and got this address for tomato's.. How are your veg..doing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebrity tomato - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Wow, Mrs. Clancey, when you undertake a new task, you really do it!   Good job on your tomatoes.  When the weather looks like it will finally get cold, bring those green tomatoes inside.  They may well ripen on you after a couple of weeks.  We harvested a bunch of green tomatoes and peppers last year on Thanksgiving day before a freeze, and I think we had some tomatoes and peppers around Christmas.

I’ve cut down a number of tomato plants, and there are others that I probably should pull out, but I haven’t made the time to do it, and they’re still producing.  Some of my plants that were really overgrown and not as healthy as I’d like, I trimmed way back, and they’ve grown up again.

This was my (German) Orange Strawberry tomato plant that had grown so much that the trellis had fallen over, and the foliage was outside the garden fence.  I cut it down to two stalks just a couple of feet high, and now it’s over the seven-foot trellis again with several green fruits.  I sure hope they have time to mature.



My cucumbers are all gone from this bed, but the row of peppers are doing well.  I just harvested some red banana peppers, but there are a lot more still to come.



I’m also trying tomatillos for the first time this fall.  I had planted one in each of the large pots, but one of them got eaten up just at the time the other was ready to bloom.  I had to replant because I think tomatillos need cross pollination, and finally the younger plants are blooming, and there are husks forming on the largest plant.  I hope that means it’s setting fruit.



We are also trying for some fall potatoes this year.  I planted two beds of small store potatoes that I had sprouted, and they are slowly coming up.  This corner is the farthest along.  The back row of foliage is the cowpeas that are still growing on trellises.  The potatoes have the middle and front on the bed. 




I still have sweet potatoes that are waiting for harvest, and I’ve transplanted some starts of broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, kale, napa cabbage, artichokes, and rhubarb.  Most of it looks good, though I am seeing evidence of chewing on some brassicas, and some of the rhubarb looks like it wants it to cool off.  We may have a chance for some rain later this week.  It’s been pretty dry.


----------



## clancey

You have worked hard and have enough of different plants to feed nations....and for me I think it is just beginners luck here. My carpenter was not optimistic about this tomato plant because it was completely out of the pot with no dirt on the roots when I had the accident plus he thought there are no bee's around to help pollinate the thing---he has been very surprise to say the least and its still going "only green for the moment"..They taste really good too and very juicy as well..Also this soil might be good too for it has never been used for anything except grass maybe that has something to do with it....Was getting a little worried about you because of no contact but I see you are a working little beaver...thanks for the post..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

Yes, just busy around here.  The gardening thread trails off more at this time of year as the stove thread begins to pick up.  We’re still in air conditioning weather down here, though the temperatures are much more moderate than the summer.

We may be in for some rain from Tropical Storm Pamela later this evening.  I’ve been busy outside in preparation.  Yesterday I harvested a bunch of hot banana peppers and shishito peppers to lighten the plants.  This morning I picked all sorts of blushing tomatoes and brought them in to finish ripening inside.





I also noticed that some of my ginger may be getting ready to bloom.  I don’t think they have showy flowers on the edible variety, but it’s interesting to me nonetheless.  It has been fun to have success with my planting.


----------



## clancey

They look wonderful and have you checked into the price of ginger at the store--maybe you could sell ginger and make a profit...Ginger is good for people and in the wintertime it gives one a warming feeling...lol Anything to make a buck here...I am worried about my tomato's because it is getting really cold at night time and today the wind was so so bad and my front gates flew open..The large plant has about 36 more tomato's on it and only one is almost nice and red for the rest are green--large some of them but green and I have been waiting for them to turn red maybe if it freezes they will all die...How does one do this fried tomato stuff and can you freeze it?..I am going to give my tomato's more time but the leaves look turned up on the ends and dry looking and I have been watering them and last night threw a plastic table cloth over them...Hope we get some warmer weather with lots of sun so that i can get these pretty things red..clancey...Your a just so talented with your plants so nice to read about as well...Do you have a simple way to cook fried tomato's and do I bread them with maybe some eggs? Can I freeze them after I fry them? clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

If your temperatures are heading toward the 30’s, go ahead and harvest the tomatoes.  The ones that are full-sized may well ripen to red in warmer temperatures indoors.  Just store them in a single layer in a cardboard box or something.

If they really stay green, you can bread and freeze them and fry them up at your leisure.  Here’s a good recipe.  It calls for gluten-free flour, but you can just use regular flour if you don’t need to be gluten free. 









						Southern Fried Green Tomatoes
					

Ultra crispy Fried Green Tomatoes you can make ahead of time and freeze! Preserve a little Summer for the rest of the year!




					www.maebells.com


----------



## clancey

Thank you so much and that what I was looking for on the net and could not find the darn article..clancey


----------



## begreen

We are having record low temps for October and this is on a weekly basis as well as daily. Our garden is shutting down, with only the cold tolerant plants remaining. Lemon trees have been moved into the greenhouse. Time to plant garlic soon.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> We are having record low temps for October and this is on a weekly basis as well as daily. Our garden is shutting down, with only the cold tolerant plants remaining. Lemon trees have been moved into the greenhouse. Time to plant garlic soon.



Begreen, are you expecting any moisture from the storms headed to the Pacific Northwest?  

We are definitely having cooler (but not cold) nights, and my surviving heat lovers (tomatoes, peppers, and okra) are slowing down.  I’m still getting harvests here and there, though.  I just froze a bunch of cherry tomatoes and put a few larger ones through the food mill for sauce.





I’m thinking that this weekend I’ll try to work some cottonseed meal into the empty parts of beds where I’ll want to plant garlic in a couple of weeks.  I may have to pull out a few tomato plants to make room, but I can probably work around them.


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> Begreen, are you expecting any moisture from the storms headed to the Pacific Northwest?


Yes, we are making up for lost moisture, though too late for some plants. This was a hard summer on them.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Trying something new this winter.    I just pinched 3 suckers off a tomato plant, dipped them in hormone, and stuck them in my aloe Vera pot.    Maybe I'll be able to start all my plants from suckers this spring.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> Yes, we are making up for lost moisture, though too late for some plants. This was a hard summer on them.


How much have you gotten?  Is any of the new round headed your way, or is that mostly south of you?


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> Trying something new this winter.    I just pinched 3 suckers off a tomato plant, dipped them in hormone, and stuck them in my aloe Vera pot.    Maybe I'll be able to start all my plants from suckers this spring.



I’ve never tried keeping a tomato going all winter, but I’ve definitely enjoyed creating new plants from suckers.  In the absence of foliar diseases, I think that sounds like a great way to get a jump start on your season.  What variety is the tomato plant?


----------



## begreen

DuaeGuttae said:


> How much have you gotten?  Is any of the new round headed your way, or is that mostly south of you?


Rain started mid Sept for a 2.8" total. well above normal. About .61" today and almost 3" for the month so far.


----------



## EatenByLimestone

DuaeGuttae said:


> I’ve never tried keeping a tomato going all winter, but I’ve definitely enjoyed creating new plants from suckers.  In the absence of foliar diseases, I think that sounds like a great way to get a jump start on your season.  What variety is the tomato plant?


San Marzano.    The prospect of being able to start in March with plantlets is intriguing.    If the experiment works, future years could have suckers planned to give ripe tomatoes a month or so after it gets warm enough to plant them.


----------



## clancey

I took out my tomato plant today and kind of made me sad..I gave the next door neighbors 28 green tomato's and I cooked up about twenty of them with breading and fried them and been eating them for three days..So many that did not turn red but it was fun in the summer to watch this plant take off...Winter is approaching and now for the serious work of thinking about what type of plant to grow next year. lol  clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> San Marzano.    The prospect of being able to start in March with plantlets is intriguing.    If the experiment works, future years could have suckers planned to give ripe tomatoes a month or so after it gets warm enough to plant them.



I have a type of tomato called Marzano Fire that I’m trying for the first time this fall.  I’m hoping it will ripen even though we’re cooling off a bit at night, but the taste might not be as good as it would be if spring planted.  No freezes in the forecast for quite a while, though.  I want to increase my paste tomatoes next year.




I harvested our first fall greens the other day in anticipation of some storms and wind moving through (and as a way of removing lots of cabbage looper eggs).  It’s young kale and some ”chijimisai” which I received as a free seed packet from Baker Creek.  It’s apparently a cross between Komatsuna and Tatsoi, neither of which I have had.  The taste reminded me of Napa a bit.  I sautéed both the kale and the chijimisai and had the kids taste test.  Three of four preferred the kale, but all liked both.  We just didn’t have enough, so I need to get some more growth.  Not all my chijimisai survived transplanting (it may have been too hot in the metal planter), so I may start some more.



I also harvested the last of our sweet potatoes.  This variety didn’t bulk up as well for me as my others did, but we’ll still get some good meals out of these once they’ve cured.



@clancey, you did a great job with your tomato.  I don’t think I’ve ever managed to get that many tomatoes off of anything that isn’t a cherry variety.  Congratulations for giving it a try and for succeeding so well!


----------



## clancey

Thank you and it was fun really especially to check on them everyday and give the squirrel a dirty look --lol...That squirrel did not seem to like them a whole lot--lol...What do I plant for next year and do you have any ideas just a few things that will be easy..People have called me and told me that they were the best tomato's and they could cut them with a knife and so juicy and by the way thank you for that old suggestion of concrete floor insulation and my stove man said that was a wonderful idea and he will share with people and I shared the name of this website with him too..clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Clancy, grow what you like to eat!     

Easy favorites for my family grown from seed are zucchini, beans, okra and kale.    I buy broccoli plantlets from the nursery.    I like the broccoli leaves more than the heads that you buy from the store!

The main thing is you grow what you like to eat.    Otherwise it looks pretty growing, but never gets harvested.


----------



## clancey

Good idea--do you think that I could grow something like Okra.? Or maybe some hot peppers or something but "not the hot ones"--whatever you call....maybe some carrots too...getting ready ahead of time here--lol...Take care dear garden people and rest for the winter and get ready for the spring...Bless you...old clancey


----------



## EatenByLimestone

Grow what makes you happy!     

Carrots don't grow well in my garden, but it's not hard to put a few in the ground and see if they'll grow well in yours!


----------



## DuaeGuttae

@clancey, I agree with @EatenByLimestone that you should concentrate on growing what you like to eat.  I think okra should do fine there.  You might need to start it from seed.  I don’t know if you could buy starts or not.

I did a quick search and found an article about gardening at high altitude.  I thought I’d include it here.  You don’t need to get bogged down in all the details, but it has good lists of cool weather versus warm weather crops, and it’s important to know which vegetables like heat (tomatoes, peppers, okra) and which like cool (carrots, lettuce, cabbage).






						How to Grow a Beautiful Garden at High Altitude | Vegetable gardening in Colorado
					

Growing your own vegetables can be a very satisfying and rewarding experience, yet not everyone lives in the most ideal conditions.




					www.uncovercolorado.com
				




My husband and I worked outside a lot today.  I did watering.  We both emptied a compost tumbler and spread compost into the four square beds where we plan to plant garlic.  I mixed that in with a little hand rake while he worked on chipping lots of branches.  He made four wheelbarrows full of mulch for the paths in the new garden area which had not been completely covered.


----------



## clancey

OMG--you people are workers..lol Later I will read the artlcle that you presented and thank you so much...Thinking about peppers too but not the hot klnd--there are  plenty of choices for me--hard decision this is..lol..thanks..clancey


----------



## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> OMG--you people are workers..lol Later I will read the artlcle that you presented and thank you so much...Thinking about peppers too but not the hot klnd--there are  plenty of choices for me--hard decision this is..lol..thanks..clancey



Another thought I had was that you could grow some sunflowers to have seeds for your birds.


----------



## begreen

I am dealing with a bad knee so my outdoor time is limited. Picked about 20# of carrots the other day and it just about did me in. My wife harvested the last apples today (Enterprise). Hoping to plant garlic tomorrow if the ibuprofen holds out.


----------



## DuaeGuttae

begreen said:


> I am dealing with a bad knee so my outdoor time is limited. Picked about 20# of carrots the other day and it just about did me in. My wife harvested the last apples today (Enterprise). Hoping to plant garlic tomorrow if the ibuprofen holds out.



Ouch.  That’s no fun.  Do you have a stool or something that you can take to the garden to sit on while you plant?  As I recall your raised beds are pretty high off the ground.  How much garlic will you plant?  What variety/ies?


----------



## begreen

I've lost track of the varieties. I will just be planting the best of this year's crop. Some hardnecks and some soft.


----------



## kennyp2339

Pretty much done with the leaves here, this year I'm doing a little experiment, normally I just blow all my leaves into the woods, this year every time I did a clean up I would mulch them first with the lawn mower then go back over them with the bagger and pick up the little chopped pieces. I've dumped on average about 6" thick of chopped leaf mash in all my gardens, like every garden has a 6" layer, my hope here is 2 fold, one is creating a good soil layer for worms, nutrients, and moisture the other is for the leaf mulch to act as a natural weed barrier. 
This past summer I spent close to an hour a week just pulling weeds (I dont like spraying because my cat also likes chilling in some of the gardens) the weeds still got the best of me, and my heart just isnt there to manage all the space I have. Anyone else try this method? I watched a few youtube video's on this and people really liked there results.


----------



## kennyp2339

this is the video that triggered the madness on my property, So far I've used all of my leaves, and cleaned up 2 of my neighbors yards for they're leaves, they think I'm off my rocker lol but they got free yard clean ups out of the deal.


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## begreen

I will be mulching some beds today. Still harvesting carrots, kale, cabbage, lettuce, beets, and swiss chard. The last of the cucumbers are still growing in the greenhouse along with some tomatoes. It's nice to have them fresh in November.


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## EatenByLimestone

I've mulched the beds with leaves before.   The worms love it!

It's also great mulch when you want to start a new bed.


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## Woodsplitter67

here it is Thanksgiving and I got good tomatoes to pick in the greenhouse


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## begreen

Nice! What variety is this? Our early girl is still producing, but the tomatoes are now 1/4 the normal size. We also still have a lot of picked tomatoes in the greenhouse that are ripening. We should be good with homegrown until the new year.


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## Woodsplitter67

I have 2 better boy, 1 roma and 1 agi red. that aggi red I go from a friend on here. The plants were all cuttings that I took off plants that were in my garden this summer and I rooted them up and put in large containers. I also have frying peppers and red bell.. its 43 degrees out now and 85 in there with the vents open


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## EatenByLimestone

Nice!  I'm jealous!


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## fbelec

+1


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## clancey

you better all get out there now and get some cuttings even if there is snow on the ground..Sounds all good..clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

kennyp2339 said:


> Pretty much done with the leaves here, this year I'm doing a little experiment, normally I just blow all my leaves into the woods, this year every time I did a clean up I would mulch them first with the lawn mower then go back over them with the bagger and pick up the little chopped pieces. I've dumped on average about 6" thick of chopped leaf mash in all my gardens, like every garden has a 6" layer, my hope here is 2 fold, one is creating a good soil layer for worms, nutrients, and moisture the other is for the leaf mulch to act as a natural weed barrier.
> This past summer I spent close to an hour a week just pulling weeds (I dont like spraying because my cat also likes chilling in some of the gardens) the weeds still got the best of me, and my heart just isnt there to manage all the space I have. Anyone else try this method? I watched a few youtube video's on this and people really liked there results.



We are huge fans of using chopped leaves here.  I’ve used wood chips on a lot of the garden beds, but they don’t break down as well, and it can be hard not to mix them in with new plantings, so I want to concentrate more on leaves this winter for soil protection and mulch.  We just recently planted four small beds of garlic, and they’re my first goal once we collect leaves.  We don’t have as many deciduous trees down here, and they’re just beginning to drop now.  (In March, though, we get a huge leaf and catkin drop when the live oaks put out their new growth).  You’ll have a nice long season for decay, and I think you’ll see great results.





The four beds in the middle are where we planted garlic a couple Saturdays ago.  (I meant to do it earlier but was ill at the time.)  I had to hoe a couple of times because I put some compost down that must have had fresh tomato added to it by accident.  (We have two tumblers, and this one wasn’t supposed to get additons in recent weeks, but mistakes happen.). I had a carpet of tomato seedlings.  I figure frost will take care of that for me, but it’s not in the forecast right now.

The garlic is peeking up in all four beds, but the Shilla variety is farthest along.  I hope to add a couple of inches of leaf mulch in the next couple of weeks.


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## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> here it is Thanksgiving and I got good tomatoes to pick in the greenhouse


Nice.

I pulled all my tomato plants the first week of November, but I still have some of the fruit I harvested green at that time that’s ripening in the pantry.  It is a treat at this time of year.

My peppers are loving our fall this year.  We haven’t had a frost or freeze yet (this may be the latest that I’ve had that experience in Texas).  I have some Chinese Cabbage and Kale in the bed behind the peppers, and I was expecting them to be gone by now, but they’re doing so beautifully that I’m leaving them while the forecast is good. We’re warming up this week to get into the low 70’s during the day and 50’s at night.


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## fbelec

all this talk about peppers. what kind do you have in the pictures? i tasted serrano red peppers was hot but good a little less heat than jalapeno, but also tried poblano and they have even less heat and are the perfect pepper heat wise for me. also they have more pepper flavor. both peppers are good. i had a friend who grew radishes and they were as hot as a serrano. and he assured me that they were regular radish just held back the water and that made the heat.


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## clancey

Glad everybody is fooling with their gardening and I am thinking about mine for the future..I think I will have one tomato plant and some peppers but do not know what kind just yet--ones not too hot and maybe I will try some potatoes with help from you people because I do not know how to plant potatoes and do you just stick the eyes in the ground?..Maybe I will try some lettuce too--getting geared up here but still waiting for our first good snow in the city for the winter and it has not come yet in any big degree.  clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

fbelec said:


> all this talk about peppers. what kind do you have in the pictures? i tasted serrano red peppers was hot but good a little less heat than jalapeno, but also tried poblano and they have even less heat and are the perfect pepper heat wise for me. also they have more pepper flavor. both peppers are good. i had a friend who grew radishes and they were as hot as a serrano. and he assured me that they were regular radish just held back the water and that made the heat.



We have a mixture of both hot and sweet peppers.  The long peppers that show in the first picture are a hot banana pepper.  They are supposed to be mildly hot, but our experience is that they are extremely hot, definitely more than a jalapeño.  I’m trying to let these get red, and then I’ll pickle slices.  That way they’ll keep, and we can enjoy them on pizza or burgers as our tolerances allow.    (In the foreground of that picture there’s also a sweet pepper called Red Belgium.  Most of that plant got broken off a few weeks ago, but I’m seeing what it will do.  The one pepper that shows is ripening, but there are some small ones still growing.  There’s so little sun on my garden now, but I figure if the plants are happy, I’ll let them do their thing.)

The second picture shows one of my “Lunchbox” mix.  I ended up with two reds and a yellow this year, which isn’t my favorite as the reds are often smaller than I would like.  They are a nice pepper for garden salads or for kids‘ snacks, and with four kids who all like to eat sweet peppers, it’s good to have a bunch.  

This year I’ve also grown fish peppers, shishito peppers, and a small sweet Ajicito.   The fish peppers are a Serrano type pepper with a strong albinism gene in the plant and fruit that makes them beautifully variegated.  I’ll need to harvest and dry more for grinding into powder.  The shishitos have been a blast this year.  They’re a small Japanese frying pepper that’s usually mild but occasionally has a surprise hot one.  The Ajicitos are like small habeneros but without the heat.  My younger daughter loves to fill them with soft goat cheese and eat them that way.


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Glad everybody is fooling with their gardening and I am thinking about mine for the future..I think I will have one tomato plant and some peppers but do not know what kind just yet--ones not too hot and maybe I will try some potatoes with help from you people because I do not know how to plant potatoes and do you just stick the eyes in the ground?..Maybe I will try some lettuce too--getting geared up here but still waiting for our first good snow in the city for the winter and it has not come yet in any big degree.  clancey



Gardening can be addictive, just like wood burning, Mrs. Clancey.  You might be succumbing to both.

Tomatoes and peppers have similar heat requirements and culture.  They both dislike cold and want warm soil and air.

Potatoes and lettuce both like to mature before the heat comes.  You could certainly grow those; just be aware that you’ll need to start potatoes and lettuce outside much earlier in the spring than you would tomatoes or peppers.  Winter is a great time to sit by your woodstove and make garden plans.


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## clancey

Thanks and that's for true and I will try to read up on a few things so that I can at least have the stuff to get prepared for my potatoes and lettuce. lol...Trying hard to light my stove but it is just not cold enough yet--today here--73 degrees but my wood is waiting...glad your keeping up with things and planning as well... and enjoy your wood stove too and have some hot chocolate with family with some marshmallows in it..that's always nice too...clancey


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## fbelec

serrano's i know but never heard of fish peppers


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## begreen

We are starting to wind down here. We just finished picking the last of the cucumbers in the greenhouse. It looks like we will have tomatoes to the first of the new year. The extended warm weather this November has kept us with a good supply of lettuce for daily salads along with chard, kale, beets, potatoes, a little broccoli and lots of carrots. We have 4 January King cabbage that are coming along, but they would appreciate some colder weather to keep the slugs down.

How warm has it been? Well besides breaking the all-time rainfall record for the area, we have stuff coming up too early. The garlic is already 4" tall and we have some daffodils that are 8" tall. Crazy weather for sure.


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## Woodsplitter67

Just ate a fresh BLT sandwich..love fresh tomatoes in December


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## DuaeGuttae

We may have our first freeze of the season (it’s late, even for this far south), so I spent some time in the garden harvesting everything that was mature enough and would be damaged by freeze: tomatillos, shishito peppers, a few potatoes, mini sweet peppers, hot banana peppers, Seminole pumpkins, fish peppers, and cowpeas.  The pepper plants still have small peppers on them, so I left them in the ground in case it doesn’t freeze.  

We’ll eat the shishitos for dinner, and I think I’ll dry the fish peppers for powder and pickle the banana peppers in slices.  

Our garlic is just shooting up.  I need to order some onions from Dixondale and get them in the ground where we took out the cowpea and pumpkin vines.  We need to add more compost to those beds first, though.


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## clancey

Those colored beans look so pretty and why rush to plant onions at this time of year and I heard fertilizer is scare or will get scarce--I think...I am going to try to do potatoes this year with one tomato plant and some mild peppers green for seasoning...just a few..Lots of work this gardening and its kind of full filling . My neighbors were happy with all the extra tomato's as well..Pretty picture of of your garden food. Thanks for sharing...clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

Mrs. Clancy, don't get caught up with the fertilizer hype.    Most soils have plenty of nutrients in them for plants.  These nutrients can be used by the plants easiest if the ph is neutral.    
All I add to my garden is compost, and that mostly comes from the leaves that fall into my yard every fall.   The leaves rot down into the soil and re lease their nutrients.   They also, more importantly,  add organic matter which helps to hold water.

Mother Nature builds the best soils.   If we try to mimic what she does, we leave the soil better than when we found it!


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## clancey

Your right there for my one plant last year had plenty of natural soil stuff..It put out so many tomatoes that I fed all my neighbors red and green tomatoes...forever-----clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

It still hasn’t frozen down here yet, and I just noticed a couple of days ago that a couple of my blueberry bushes have flowers on them.  I think that will not be good in the long run.

Our garlic has grown by leaps and bounds since we put it in about a month ago.  I’m hoping to get leaf mulch on it today.  We had thunderstorms Saturday morning, so we couldn’t do it then.  I was very happy for a little rain, though.


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## DuaeGuttae

clancey said:


> Those colored beans look so pretty and why rush to plant onions at this time of year and I heard fertilizer is scare or will get scarce--I think...I am going to try to do potatoes this year with one tomato plant and some mild peppers green for seasoning...just a few..Lots of work this gardening and its kind of full filling . My neighbors were happy with all the extra tomato's as well..Pretty picture of of your garden food. Thanks for sharing...clancey



Winter is the proper time to plant onions in our part of Texas, so it’s not a rush.  It’s just a matter of giving each type of plant what it needs to flourish.  Last year I put them in in the second week of December.  This year has been milder, and so I won’t do it until January, but we need to grow what’s known as short-day onions down here, and we need to let them have a chance to grow good tops before the days get long enough to start the bulbing process.  Starting them late would lead to poor results.


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## DuaeGuttae

I did manage to add some leaf mulch (with a few lawn clippings) to the garlic beds this afternoon.  It’s not as thick as I would like, but I also needed to water, and that took time.  I also mulched the large asparagus bed.  I’m very pleased with how the garlic is doing so far.




I tried starting some artichokes outside the garden early this year.  It was my hope that since the deer don’t eat our thistles that they would leave the artichokes alone.  Alas it was a vain hope.  I started a few more this fall and put them in the garden.  This one is the planter is doing well, but I wonder how large it’s going to get.  I’m hoping that the deer will leave bigger ones outside the garden, but I’m not sure.




This last picture is a very large pot that used to have a tomatillo in it (the dead stalk in the middle).  I had put fresh compost around it at the same time that I topped off the garlic beds.  Obviously someone (perhaps even me) had added fresh tomato seeds to what was supposed to be the finished bin.  My garlic beds were covered with tomato seedlings, and I had to hoe them twice before we planted, and I’ve done a little hand weeding since.  Since I’m not growing any crop in this pot right now, I’m letting these go just to see how long tomatoes will survive this unusually warm winter.  I figure it will be good for the soil once they winter kill as well.


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## DuaeGuttae

It’s Christmas Day, the temperature hit 79 briefly outside, and we had bright sunshine.  I moved one container of ginger inside weeks ago to protect it.  I left a large pot outside in part because I want to overwinter only one, in part to see just how long it might last.   It is protected insofar as it is directly next to our house on a western exposure, but I’ve never covered it or taken other measures.   So far it’s still alive and not looking any worse than the ginger inside, and I even harvested from it today for our Christmas dinner.  It has really been an usually warm December.


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## Woodsplitter67

I still have lettuce still growing in the garden.. its seed that came up from  one that went to seed over the summer


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## Dan Freeman

I used to grow in my greenhouse all winter, but the heating bill was ridiculous! This year I decided to grow lettuce hydroponically in my unfinished cellar. It does well, but it is too cold for tomatoes, so I grow them upstairs in my den.


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## clancey

how nice and that is quite a "set up" you arranged and pretty too...neat...clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I still have lettuce still growing in the garden.. its seed that came up from  one that went to seed over the summer


I love volunteer lettuce.  I mulch so heavily down here that it can be hard for it to get a good start as the seeds end up getting buried too deeply.  I planted some fall romaine lettuce, and several heads have started to bolt.  It’s just been too warm a fall and winter.    I’m hoping to put some compost down in that bed and get some to seed in the spring from the bolted heads.


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## DuaeGuttae

Dan Freeman said:


> I used to grow in my greenhouse all winter, but the heating bill was ridiculous! This year I decided to grow lettuce hydroponically in my unfinished cellar. It does well, but it is too cold for tomatoes, so I grow them upstairs in my den.



Those are some great looking plants.  I’m glad you’ve joined us over here in the garden thread. 

I think if I hadn’t pulled my cherry tomato plants in November they would actually still be producing in my garden right now.  I wasn’t expecting this warm fall/winter.  I’ve got containers of frozen ones, but you’re making me miss fresh tomatoes on a salad.

@begreen, how are you (and your plants and pipes) holding up with your cold temperatures?


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## EatenByLimestone

I went looking for basil seeds yesterday and nobody had seeds out.


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## clancey

i love basil and I usually buy maybe a plant to keep on my window in the spring and summer--never tried to move it outside and plant it in the soil--maybe I will this year...I use basil for my spag. seasoning just a few little leaves..and chicken too if I have enough..clancey


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## EatenByLimestone

We use a lot of it.    Everything from pesto, which can strip multiple plants of leaves, to salads and Vietnamese food.


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## Dan Freeman

EatenByLimestone said:


> I went looking for basil seeds yesterday and nobody had seeds out.


Around here you can get seeds right after the 1st of the new year. I already have most of my seeds for the upcoming season from the ones I saved from this past season and the ones I bought online a couple of months back. I'll still check out the local stores for anything that catches my eye.  I grow a lot of basil so we have it fresh in season, and I dehydrate a lot so we have it off season.


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## EatenByLimestone

I was hoping to have some volunteer plants in my hanging pot.    I let it go to seed in there.    I got 2 sprouts out of it, lol.


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## DuaeGuttae

EatenByLimestone said:


> I was hoping to have some volunteer plants in my hanging pot.    I let it go to seed in there.    I got 2 sprouts out of it, lol.



I have an assortment of basil still in my garden that I’m letting go to seed, but I should probably go out and get some cuttings to root in water while I still have the chance.

@EatenByLimestone, if you’re not opposed to ordering seeds online, Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds has a good selection of basil in stock, and their free shipping makes ordering just a couple of seed packets a pretty good deal.  It’s still more expensive than off the shelf, but sometimes (most of the time) I can’t get what I want in stores down here.  (Baker Creek used to have a $5.00 minimum order.  I don’t know if that has gone up to $10.00, as that is their new requirement for a free seed packet.) 





__





						Basil
					

(Ocimum family) Basil is native to the tropical regions of central Africa and Southeast Asia. The heat-loving, frost-sensitive plants are typically grown as annuals and thrive in full sun. Direct sow in place, ¼ inch deep, in long-summer areas, or start seedlings 4-6 weeks before last frost...




					www.rareseeds.com
				




I meant to post a picture yesterday of my surprise harvest of shishito peppers.  I had harvested most of the peppers a couple of weeks ago in anticipation of a freeze that never came.  I left the small ones just in case.  We’re having a warm spell again, and those plants just keep on producing.  I have three plants, two in containers on the deck which are getting very little sunlight and one in the garden.  The deck peppers are small, but I was surprised to find lots of red ones yesterday.  It was like a post-Christmas Christmas present.  We had this batch fried for dinner yesterday, and the red ones had a higher percentage of heat.  Most of the family really enjoyed that.  I definitely plan to grow more of these next year.


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## Dan Freeman

@DuaeGuttae I love Shishito peppers. I grow about a dozen plants in my greenhouse each year. We love to sauté them in just a drizzle of olive oil with sea salt. This is one of my pepper hauls. (Shishito on the right.) I usually pick every 2-3 days during the season.


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## clancey

All those food items from all of you are just so so beautiful and it is making me hungry just to look at them all--lol  ..Just wonderful and good for you...Happy New Year...old clancey


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## DuaeGuttae

Beautiful peppers, @Dan Freeman .  This was my first year growing shishitos on a recommendation from a friend, but they will be a staple for us, I think.  We also fry them up, usually in oil, though last night I had a pan already coated with garlic butter that I had made for fish and toast, so in they went.  (Sadly, I had actually intended to cut a couple open to save seeds, but I completely forgot about it in the midst of cooking.  I still have my original seed pack and did save some earlier in the summer, though.)  Do you ever let the shishitos ripen to red for eating?   We really like their flavor last night.

What are the other varieties of pepper in your photo?

@clancey, maybe you should consider growing a shishito pepper if you can find a starter plant in the spring.  They’re good, without too much heat, even in the occasional spicy one.  We have more success with them than with a traditional bell pepper, so we used sliced shishitos this summer for pepper steak and fajitas, too.


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## clancey

That might be a real good idea..I will check that out "among other ideas"---too much thinking--lol But that is another thought....Love the taste of peppers if not too hot and one thing i truly love --something that is somewhat hot is: jalapeno jelly--oboy oboy..thanks clancey


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## Dan Freeman

I usually pick the shishito's before they turn red or just as they are beginning to turn color but have eaten them red as well. I like the taste of the green ones better.

Those other peppers on the left are a combination of pepperoncini and fushimi. The ones in the jar are pepperoncini that I pickled.

I'm not a hot pepper fan, so I grow mainly sweet peppers.

I like to grow bells as well that I use in sausage and peppers.


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## DuaeGuttae

I’ve about given up on bell peppers.  I just can’t get enough peppers per plant to make it worth it in my small garden.   Because the fruit is larger, it’s also easier for it to sunburn down here.  It takes me a lot of more time to cut up smaller peppers to use in their place, but I think that’s probably what I’ll end up doing.  I haven’t fully made my garden plans for next year, and I need to decide what varieties I’ll grow.  (My current plan is shishito, dwarf Ajicito, and sweet banana along with one fish pepper, but I really need to draw my plans with all my other plants in place, too.)

We aren’t major hot pepper fans here either, but we seem to have great success with our hot peppers.  I grew fish peppers and hot banana peppers this year, and really have had more than I can handle.  I’ve given bunches away and dried and fermented them.  The banana peppers were way hotter than we expected but they grew great.  Next year I hope to grow a sweet variety and see if they can do as well.  We like a little heat, but I do want more sweet peppers.  The fish peppers are very productive as well, and I love their beauty (the plants and peppers are beautifully variegated because of genes for albinism).

I had to look up fushimi peppers to see what they were. 

I need to get outside either today or tomorrow and harvest the last of the peppers (for real this time, I think, as @begreen’s cold weather is supposed to dip down here by Saturday night) and get some compost spread on the garden beds where we want to plant onions.   Crazily enough it’s super high cedar pollen time here, and I’m very allergic.  A face mask helps with that, but my eyes really suffer.  I asked my husband to see if he can find any of my children’s swim goggles that haven’t broken to see if that will help.  I’ll look crazy, but I need to do something so that I can be in my garden.


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## Dan Freeman

I had to look up Fish Peppers; I never heard of them. They are real pretty, but I don't think I would grow them since they "are medium-hot with a fiery bite that falls somewhere between a jalapeño and a cayenne."  Every once in a while, I'll get a hot green shishito; usually one that I pull off and pop in my mouth while I am picking others. 

Too bad about the pollen allergies. I used to have a lot of allergies as a kid, but then I got desensitization shots (4 each week for 3 years), and the pollen only bothers me when we have an extreme spring season.

I got my raised beds topped off with a few inches of mushroom compost that I had left over. I had it under a tarp up at the top of my driveway and figured I better get it spread before the plow guy pushes it all over. Luckily, we have made it through December with only one storm of 2 inches that melted the next day. I wouldn't mind it at all if we didn't have any more, but I know that's a pipe dream!

I picked tomatoes from my indoor plants today. I do it every two days. Since December 17th, I've picked over 160 tomatoes. The plants are starting to look a little funky, so I fertilized them the other day and I have powdered eggshells from our chickens soaking in a gallon of water that I plan to apply to them today.

Plant catalogs are pouring in. 80 days until I start my seeds for 2022. I always do it on March 21st. I can start them earlier, but then some get too big before I can put them outside and not worry about frost. Our official last frost date is May 30th, but I usually cheat by a few weeks. I start so many seeds that I have backups in case we get a late frost.


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## DuaeGuttae

I think that this is the third time that I have done my “last harvest” of peppers.  There are hot banana peppers and fish peppers together, then some new potatoes, some hibiscus calyces for tea, and some sweet peppers and tomatillos.  I’ll need to make some salsa verde this weekend.

 I keep leaving the plants with smaller peppers just in case it doesn’t freeze when expected, and so far the plants have survived.  We’re forecast for freezing temperatures tomorrow night and a hard freeze on Sunday.  I want cooler weather to come, I’m not excited about a hard freeze when the perennials plants haven’t had a chance to acclimate to low temperatures at all this fall and winter.  I was even looking at an actually blushing blueberry while I was watering today.  I would be glad for more seasonal weather.


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## Dan Freeman

Thought I would share a good product I found.

I started noticing fungus gnats on my indoor tomatoes a few weeks ago. Trying to eradicate them on the cheap, I used small pieces of yellow paper smeared with vaseline and hung them from the grow lights (read this on a website). Two weeks later, I couldn't find one bug stuck on any of these, and they were multiplying, so I started looking online for something else. I decided to take a chance on these.

Gideal 20-Pack Dual-Sided Yellow Sticky Traps for Flying Plant Insect Such as Fungus Gnats, Whiteflies, Aphids, Leafminers,Thrips - (6x8 Inches, Included 20pcs Twist Ties) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QKLHH5X/






I cut two of these 6 x 8 pieces into 4 pieces each and hung them from the grow lights. WOW! Within an hour, I noticed about 2 dozen gnats already stuck. They are now loaded with them, and I have not seen any more flying around when I pick tomatoes. Recommended for indoor and outdoor use.


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## clancey

Its nice you have the second floor or room to have a garden like that and so interesting and if I had more room and convenience I would like to try something like what you are doing..But would have to be away from the main part of living because of those little gnats--would not like that--lol.. Great product and nice to know about.. I had one tomato in the yard last summer and believe it or not--it kept me busy--either picking tomato's off of it or giving it shelter in bad storms--became like a pet..lol..Looking forward to the Spring to see what I might grow this season..--just one or two plants we will see...Then I will be asking our forum members a lot of questions--lol...first time garderner..--one of those--having fun---nice set up...clancey


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## Dan Freeman

With those traps, there is no more gnat problem.

Yes, grow more tomatoes, a few different varieties. I usually grow 4-6 varieties each summer, a total of 24 plants. We eat them almost every day, dehydrate a bunch and freeze dry a bunch for the winter. Whatever we can't use, we give to friends and neighbors who don't grow them; they are always very happy to get them. We also always grow a sauce tomato, either San Marzano or Roma. As we pick them, we freeze them. At the end of the season, we have up to a dozen large bags. We than make a huge pot of sauce and freeze it in smaller containers for use during the winter.


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## DuaeGuttae

@Dan Freeman ,  I’ve used those sticky traps with success as well, though I’ve used mine outside.  I got them for thrips, though it was too late for my cucumbers when I first tried.  My worry was whether beneficials would be attracted to them, but I haven’t observed that.  I used them last year on some camellias from a nearby nursery that had a huge fungus gnat problem.  It was amazing how quickly they became filled, and I had to change them out.  (I was cutting the pieces into thirds or quarters, I believe.)

It was really 2022 when this happened, but on New Year’s Day our temperatures in this part of Texas hit 80 degrees.  By the next morning, they had dropped to 24 with strong winds.  It had been predicted to hit thirty that night, and we usually run warmer than the forecast, so that was a surprise.  Even my cold-tolerant plants couldn’t handle it, and just about everything in my garden seems to be dead (kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, and my one artichoke and rhubarb.). It was too depressing for a picture.  Thankfully the citrus doesn’t seem to have been killed.

I have a few replacement plants inside, but it’s tricky down here in winter.  I had thought my rhubarb needed more cold this fall, but now it might be too late to grow the two seedlings that I have,  but I can always give it a try. 

I have onion transplants that I hope to get in the ground this weekend.


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## EatenByLimestone

I had found basil seeds a couple days after I started  looking.   At Home Depot of all placed!  3 pots were planted with basil.   I've seen it sprout in 2.    The big pot with aloe hasn't sprouted yet.   Maybe it's alellopathic.


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