# Impact of Rainwater on Seasoned Firewood



## JotulOwner (Oct 29, 2018)

I have a lot of well-seasoned (7 plus years) firewood. I keep it covered and it burns with no indications of retained moisture. I had a small pile of splits in a ring under my porch which was indirectly exposed to some rainwater during a recent storm. It was relatively dry to the touch (a little bit moist on the surface). I couldn't believe how this wood hissed, steamed, and bubbled water from the ends. It must have absorbed the rainwater like a sponge because this wood was unquestionably dry before this happened. 

Obviously wood exposed to rain will be moist on the surface until it air dries, but has anyone seen well- seasoned wood absorb water like this?


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## saewoody (Oct 29, 2018)

I would imagine that if it had any hint of punkiness to it, that it could definitely absorb some water. 


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## Ctwoodtick (Oct 29, 2018)

I live just north of you. We had a tough year with rain and high humidity. Hopefully it dries out before freeze up to dry up the wood a bit. I’ve had maple soak up rain water before. I had soft maple at 20 percent that shot in to 30+ after a wet early spring. It dried out to original levels once it was drier out for a few weeks. I learned after this that top covering is a must unless you live in the desert.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 29, 2018)

JotulOwner said:


> I have a lot of well-seasoned (7 plus years) firewood. I keep it covered and it burns with no indications of retained moisture. I had a small pile of splits in a ring under my porch which was indirectly exposed to some rainwater during a recent storm. It was relatively dry to the touch (a little bit moist on the surface). I couldn't believe how this wood hissed, steamed, and bubbled water from the ends. It must have absorbed the rainwater like a sponge because this wood was unquestionably dry before this happened.
> 
> Obviously wood exposed to rain will be moist on the surface until it air dries, but has anyone seen well- seasoned wood absorb water like this?


Yep.


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## Manly (Oct 30, 2018)

JotulOwner said:


> I have a lot of well-seasoned (7 plus years) firewood. I keep it covered and it burns with no indications of retained moisture. I had a small pile of splits in a ring under my porch which was indirectly exposed to some rainwater during a recent storm. It was relatively dry to the touch (a little bit moist on the surface). I couldn't believe how this wood hissed, steamed, and bubbled water from the ends. It must have absorbed the rainwater like a sponge because this wood was unquestionably dry before this happened.
> 
> Obviously wood exposed to rain will be moist on the surface until it air dries, but has anyone seen well- seasoned wood absorb water like this?



My experience has been dry wood getting rained on will show signs of getting wet. Others may have different results.


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## Adabiviak (Oct 31, 2018)

It should dry back out faster than it took to season in the first place... the water isn't "throughout" the wood; it should be near the surface and should dry back out quickly (depending on local conditions).


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## Marshy (Oct 31, 2018)

You'd be surprised how much moisture the wood will absorb just from air. There was a nice graphic in a scholarly article about curing wood and how much moisture the wood picks back up during the wet season even under a cover. For the life of me I cannot find that graphic. If I come across it I will share it.


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## Paulywalnut (Nov 5, 2018)

I have found that once your stacks are well seasoned, if it gets wet the moisture evaporates pretty quick.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 5, 2018)

Paulywalnut said:


> I have found that once your stacks are well seasoned, if it gets wet the moisture evaporates pretty quick.


Sometimes, but being from KS PA, you know your uncovered wood stayed almost constantly wet this year, including right now. Bad recipe for dry wood come burning season.  And one of these days it's gonna freeze, then it doesn't evaporate nearly as fast. 

 And this isn't true at all for wood that has some punky stuff on the part that's not heartwood, which is abundant if you're cutting wood that's already dead.


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## weatherguy (Nov 6, 2018)

I'm going to keep 3 days worth in a rack in the stove room. Then I'll set the next load near the stove an hour or two before going in the stove. It's usually bone dry by the time I burn it.


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## FaithfulWoodsman (Nov 6, 2018)

Yep. It's a problem as my wood drying location stays wetter/humid. Nothing I can do about that, but I am building another 7-10 day rack so the stuff in the stove has been inside for a week or more. Like you I have 3 year ash and cherry that sizzle and were 10-15% in August. It's deff a water exposure issue and I'm over it.


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## Paulywalnut (Nov 7, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Sometimes, but being from KS PA, you know your uncovered wood stayed almost constantly wet this year, including right now. Bad recipe for dry wood come burning season.  And one of these days it's gonna freeze, then it doesn't evaporate nearly as fast.
> 
> And this isn't true at all for wood that has some punky stuff on the part that's not heartwood, which is abundant if you're cutting wood that's already dead.


You're right. I have so many stacks that I only burn from covered stacks. I just feel the first year stacked really benefits from sun and wind uncovered.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 7, 2018)

Paulywalnut said:


> You're right. I have so many stacks that I only burn from covered stacks. I just feel the first year stacked really benefits from sun and wind uncovered.


That's why we call you Paulywalnut!


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## Wood1Dennis (Nov 7, 2018)

I season my firewood uncovered. I agree with Pauly, open and exposed to the sun and wind is the best for seasoning, at least here. The punky stuff stays in the woods 
I always cover the next winters supply with a tarp in late summer so the fall rains don't add surface moisture.  When I bring it in in October it is nice and dry, even in a year like this where it rained, a lot! But even if the tarp blows off, the moisture from rain will dry out pretty quick.


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## Schipp (Nov 15, 2018)

Marshy said:


> You'd be surprised how much moisture the wood will absorb just from air. There was a nice graphic in a scholarly article about curing wood and how much moisture the wood picks back up during the wet season even under a cover. For the life of me I cannot find that graphic. If I come across it I will share it.


 You’re right! It’s called “ambient” moisture!


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 16, 2018)

Wood1Dennis said:


> I season my firewood uncovered. I agree with Pauly, open and exposed to the sun and wind is the best for seasoning, at least here. The punky stuff stays in the woods
> I always cover the next winters supply with a tarp in late summer so the fall rains don't add surface moisture.  When I bring it in in October it is nice and dry, even in a year like this where it rained, a lot! But even if the tarp blows off, the moisture from rain will dry out pretty quick.


What kind of wood are you burning?

Are your stacks in the sun or shade?

Are your stacks all single row or double or multiple.

Do you remove the bark and sapwood?

I ask, because perhaps you are burning some sort of wood and your conditions are totally different than mine.

Reading posts like yours led me to the situation I'm in this year, struggling to have any dry wood to burn this year, even though it's all at least 2 years old.

Thanks.


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## Schipp (Nov 16, 2018)

I’ll take seasoned wood that’s been rained on over freshly cut green wood anyday!
 But I don’t try to burn it right away!
 I stack it in my basement, (where my stove is) and let it dry out a few days or a week before I try to burn it!
   Dries out fairly quickly!


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## Wood1Dennis (Nov 16, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> What kind of wood are you burning?
> 
> Are your stacks in the sun or shade?
> 
> ...


 
Hey Ed,

You are right, there might be differences based on where we are located. Anyway;

I have a very good location for my wood piles. It is in full sun, they are in a east/west orientation. It's between a couple of wood lots, so the wind blows pretty good through there too. The full sun is probably key.

I stack in double rows, never had a problem doing that. I do recall one time someone told me, might have been out east like you, that they get a lot of ice buildup between the rows if they pile double. I have never had that problem here in Wisconsin.

I burn mostly hardwood. Ash, cherry, elm, some birch, maple, beech. I do not remove the sapwood or bark. Any bark that will easily slip off I take off, but I don't make a point of it. The one exception is white birch, not my favorite wood but is is pretty good if I get it dry. I try to peel as much bark as I can because that stuff will hold water. I am a believer in piling with the split side down, bark side facing up. I never did a trial to confirm that it is the better way (there is some controversy), but I learned that from my Dad, it works for me so I don't mess with it. 

What is your location like?


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## FaithfulWoodsman (Nov 16, 2018)

Riddle me this...... I am currently burning some ash and cherry that was leftover from last year's stack. Been drying 3-4 years depending on when I cut it, but obviously should be dry. Wood has been in the shed since last March and gets very little rain on it, but the shed is on the north side of the house in shade and in a low wetter area. About half the pieces sizzle some, not a lot, but it's noticeable for 5-10 minutes. I think this is absorbed moisture not cellular. I have thrown in some two year red oak that I tossed in the shed a couple months ago just to see how they did. ZERO moisture so far. I did split them board style and thin, but I am at a loss as to how I am getting 3 year cherry to sizzle, but not two year red oak. The only explanation off the top of my head is that the red oak dried enough due to the way I split them and although the ash and cherry are dry, they soak up air moisture much easier than the denser red oak. I have no real empirical data to offer other than what happens in the stove. However, I'm not complaining.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 16, 2018)

Wood1Dennis said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> You are right, there might be differences based on where we are located. Anyway;
> 
> ...


Wet this year.  

North slope of a "mountain" near the top, but not at the top. Quotes are because it's a Pennsylvania sized mountain, which is nothing like a Colorado sized mountain.

Only a couple of good sunny spots, but it can be pretty breezy.  Lots of still, humid days this year.

Even in single row stacks, I was growing fungus in the sapwood on barkless pieces, and cambium layers, on bark-on pieces.

I knew I was in trouble in early September and started top covering, but removing the top for sunny stretches.

Oak, birch, hemlock, walnut, ash, tuplip poplar.  All of it at least 2 years split and stacked off the ground, except for the holzhausen, stacked single row deep, and all of it waterlogged to some degree.


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## weatherguy (Nov 16, 2018)

I'm in the east and got hammered with rain. I bring a weeks worth of wood and rack it in the stove room to dry out. I have another weeks worth in the garage. When I'm about an hour before loading I put the next load spread out near the stove. By the time I get to putting the load in its dry as a bone. I just keep rotating like that all year.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 16, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> I'm in the east and got hammered with rain. I bring a weeks worth of wood and rack it in the stove room to dry out. I have another weeks worth in the garage. When I'm about an hour before loading I put the next load spread out near the stove. By the time I get to putting the load in its dry as a bone. I just keep rotating like that all year.


I'm doing something similar, but there are still plenty of pieces that are still too wet to burn well.  So I sort them.  We're getting by, but it's a real pia. It could have been prevented by keeping the stacks top covered all year.  And, no normal person would be willing to do what I'm doing.


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## Ashful (Nov 17, 2018)

I have trouble even believing some of you have had nearly as much rain as I’ve had this year, but I know some of you have.  It seems to me the rain gauge in my driveway was seeing 6x - 9x the rain I dump out of it on a regular year, but I have no log book to prove it.

I’m having a lot of trouble with wet wood, even though my oak has been seasoning 3 - 4 years in my back yard.  I also just sank my firewood trailer in the back yard this morning, had to chain up the 4wd tractor to pull it out.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 17, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I have trouble even believing some of you have had nearly as much rain as I’ve had this year, but I know some of you have.  It seems to me the rain gauge in my driveway was seeing 6x - 9x the rain I dump out of it on a regular year, but I have no log book to prove it.
> 
> I’m having a lot of trouble with wet wood, even though my oak has been seasoning 3 - 4 years in my back yard.  I also just sank my firewood trailer in the back yard this morning, had to chain up the 4wd tractor to pull it out.


And if it wasn't bad enough, 6" of snow on Thursday, followed by just enough rain to soak the already wet snow into a slushy sponge on top of all the stacks.  Even the stuff on the porch would have been soaked, had I not covered it.  And, the weather into the forseeable future appears to be custom designed to keep the ground a soupy mess.  Not warm enough to melt it all away during the day, then down into the 20's at night to freeze what's there.


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## weatherguy (Nov 17, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> And if it wasn't bad enough, 6" of snow on Thursday, followed by just enough rain to soak the already wet snow into a slushy sponge on top of all the stacks.  Even the stuff on the porch would have been soaked, had I not covered it.  And, the weather into the forseeable future appears to be custom designed to keep the ground a soupy mess.  Not warm enough to melt it all away during the day, then down into the 20's at night to freeze what's there.


We got the same here. I think I'm going to bring two weeks worth into my garage to dry out tomorrow since it looks like this weather pattern will exist for awhile.


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## Ashful (Nov 17, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> And if it wasn't bad enough, 6" of snow on Thursday, followed by just enough rain to soak the already wet snow into a slushy sponge on top of all the stacks.  Even the stuff on the porch would have been soaked, had I not covered it.  And, the weather into the forseeable future appears to be custom designed to keep the ground a soupy mess.  Not warm enough to melt it all away during the day, then down into the 20's at night to freeze what's there.



I have parts of my yard that have not been mowed since July 4, which still need to get done.  I also haven’t even started my leaf clean-up, those areas are too wet to enter.


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## weatherguy (Nov 17, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I have parts of my yard that have not been mowed since July 4, which still need to get done.  I also haven’t even started my leaf clean-up, those areas are too wet to enter.


Might have to wait til spring the way things are looking.


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## Slocum (Nov 17, 2018)

I mostly top cover everything. I did a test on honey locust that was css last January. I stacked a cord inside my pole barn which is closed up 6 days a week through the week and it gets very warm in there. Then a cord under my Quonset hit, a cord in full sun but top covered and I filled a ibc tote but didn’t cover it. The cord closed up in my pole barn was the driest. It went from 30% to 23%. The ibc tote that wasn’t covered dried the least at 25% moisture. We did not have the relentless rain that a lot of you to the east got. The stack I had in full sun and top covered was almost to 23%. It’s obvious to me I need to top cover everything cause every bit of moisture your wood gets on it makes a difference in the end. 


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 18, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I have parts of my yard that have not been mowed since July 4, which still need to get done.  I also haven’t even started my leaf clean-up, those areas are too wet to enter.


Yep, we got in one short weekend of leaf cleanup, still have one more long one to finish.  Need em to mulch the garden.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 18, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Wet this year.
> 
> North slope of a "mountain" near the top, but not at the top. Quotes are because it's a Pennsylvania sized mountain, which is nothing like a Colorado sized mountain.
> 
> ...



I really believe that location has alot of factors on the quality of wood drying. I am not far from you, but not on a mountain. I keep ALL of my wood in a wood shed. I season it in the shed. It is east west with the front facing south and it is vented. All of the southern winds from the summer blow on my stacks.. I am 3 rows deep, i have a large overhang on the front and in the summer i take the back panel's off to expose the back row. All the sheds are in full sun, even in winter. My area recived 40 in of rain by august, a full years worth of rain in 8 months. None of my wood is struggling. I do think that the MC is slightly higher than in previous years but not to the point that my wood sizzles. I think with a dryer year my Mc would be a little lower. Sometimes there is an advantage to protecting the wood from dew and regular times of high moisture. I really believe that wood getting wet truly slows the wood seasoning process. Wood can only lose a certain ammount of moisture in a given period. That being said the uptake of any additional surface moisture will slow the internal your trying to get out..


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## Stinkpickle (Nov 18, 2018)

I’ve been intending to do a little experiment by submerging a seasoned split in a bucket of dyed water, leaving it in there for some period of (maybe a month), and then cutting it to see how deep the dye penetrated.  Maybe someday...


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## Stinkpickle (Nov 19, 2018)

Somebody beat me to it.  Sort of...

https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cooking-science/myth-soak-your-wood-first


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

Stinkpickle said:


> Somebody beat me to it.  Sort of...
> 
> https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cooking-science/myth-soak-your-wood-first



Interesting, but he makes too many assumptions to validate his conclusions.  How do we know the dye component penetrates the wood as well as water, perhaps the wood acts as a filter toward the dye.  How do we know the effect of rinsing the wood, if it were so porous, then maybe rinsing is removing some dye.  An interesting experiment, but there are too many untested variables.


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## Schipp (Nov 19, 2018)

Stinkpickle said:


> I’ve been intending to do a little experiment by submerging a seasoned split in a bucket of dyed water, leaving it in there for some period of (maybe a month), and then cutting it to see how deep the dye penetrated.  Maybe someday...


 That would be interesting! 
 Maybe different lengths of time!
ie • 1day
    • 1 week
    • 1 month
  I might need ya try that!


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## Sawset (Nov 24, 2018)

Marshy said:


> You'd be surprised how much moisture the wood will absorb just from air. There was a nice graphic in a scholarly article about curing wood and how much moisture the wood picks back up during the wet season even under a cover. For the life of me I cannot find that graphic. If I come across it I will share it.



This is one article I know of. It does give some good reference information. Useful if it can be translated to similar situations.

http://dec.alaska.gov/media/7558/wood-storage-best-practices-final-report.pdf


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## wooduser (Nov 24, 2018)

Why not measure the affect of rain or moisture?


Weigh some sticks of firewood when they are dry, and write the weight of the stick.

Weigh it additional times after rain,  or dunk it in a bucket of water for a few hours and weigh it additional times,  writing the results on the stick.


Measurement would seem to be a better way to answer this question than opinion.


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## Hasufel (Nov 24, 2018)

wooduser said:


> Why not measure the affect of rain or moisture?
> 
> 
> Weigh some sticks of firewood when they are dry, and write the weight of the stick.
> ...


You are right, empirical data would be useful in this discussion. There are a lot of variables to be considered but at least we might get some ball-park estimates. I tried something like this a while back on some test pieces of oak (to compare drying conditions) and found that wood exposed to the elements took longest to dry, by a wide margin. During one rainy period the moisture content of my smallest test piece increased by 60% (from about 14% to 23% average MC), and it took about 6 weeks to lose the moisture it had picked up. But this is heavily dependent on weather conditions and the size, initial dryness, and other characteristics of the splits.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 24, 2018)

wooduser said:


> Why not measure the affect of rain or moisture?
> 
> 
> Weigh some sticks of firewood when they are dry, and write the weight of the stick.
> ...


Someone could really rack up some academic points on this.  There are many variables to take into consideration, types of wood (oak vs tulip poplar vs. black birch, etc.), old growth vs. new growth, ambient humidity, bark vs no bark, round vs flat cut or split.  Just in one stack, all from the same tree cut and splt at the same time, I find considerable variation.

All that said, it would not be hard to come to some useful conclusions with some splits, buckets of water, a scale and a little time and effort.


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## billb3 (Nov 25, 2018)




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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 25, 2018)

billb3 said:


>



Fabulous video.  Tremdously informative.


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## Sawset (Nov 25, 2018)

The video is excellent. And it creates a couple of questions:

1) if red oak wets from the ends very quickly vs white oak, does it dry equally quickly. I've never differentiated between the two honestly as far as that goes.

2) if a stack sheds water vertically, and very little reaches the ends, does infiltration also vary that way (radially) between species?


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## wooduser (Nov 26, 2018)

I think the video illustrates how some simple experimentation can be more useful than "It stands to reason...."  opinion.


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## Hasufel (Nov 26, 2018)

Sawset said:


> The video is excellent. And it creates a couple of questions:
> 
> 1) if red oak wets from the ends very quickly vs white oak, does it dry equally quickly. I've never differentiated between the two honestly as far as that goes.
> 
> 2) if a stack sheds water vertically, and very little reaches the ends, does infiltration also vary that way (radially) between species?


And of course: 3) is it OK to blow on the ends of my red oak splits to dry them out faster? 

But seriously, if the pores between the annular rings are the big difference between red & white oak, then it stands to reason that there should be little difference in the speed of wetting/drying if you stack oak in a way that minimizes rainwater infiltration on the ends. This is consistent with what I have observed anecdotally, with red and white oak drying at roughly similar rates.

Interesting discussion!


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## Schipp (Nov 27, 2018)

Great video!
 I liked this one as well!


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## coutufr (Nov 29, 2018)

Is there a way to differentiate both types of oak using the bark? Oak is relatively rare around here but I scrooge some once in a while


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## Ashful (Nov 29, 2018)

coutufr said:


> Is there a way to differentiate both types of oak using the bark? Oak is relatively rare around here but I scrooge some once in a while



Yes, but since there are at least a dozen different species of red oak and a dozen different species of white oak (red/white is a class, not a species), it’s frankly easier to differentiate them by the leaves.  Reds have pointy leaves, whites have rounded tips on their leaves.  There’s an old “cowboys and Indians” phrase that goes along with remembering this, but I guess it’s not PC today.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Yes, but since there are at least a dozen different species of red oak and a dozen different species of white oak (red/white is a class, not a species), it’s frankly easier to differentiate them by the leaves.  Reds have pointy leaves, whites have rounded tips on their leaves.  There’s an old “cowboys and Indians” phrase that goes along with remembering this, but I guess it’s not PC today.


Didn't know this. Interesting, informative and concise.  I'll be on the lookout next leafy season to see what we have.  Guess there's no easy way to tell what's what in the stacks already, but I'm burning it, either way!


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## Ashful (Nov 29, 2018)

Red oaks look redder, after split.  Also, there’s the straw trick, you can blow bubbles in a glass of water thru a sliver of red oak, not with white.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Red oaks look redder, after split.  Also, there’s the straw trick, you can blow bubbles in a glass of water thru a sliver of red oak, not with white.


I draw the line at trying to blow through my wood.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 29, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Red oaks look redder, after split.  Also, there’s the straw trick, you can blow bubbles in a glass of water thru a sliver of red oak, not with white.


Red on the left, white on the right.  No blowing required.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 29, 2018)

This map shows ranks for total precipitation since September 1 across the Northeast US. Meteorological fall ends tomorrow. The 1s mean wettest on record, 2s second wettest, etc. November ranks are even more impressive. Have to believe this has had an impact, on wood stacks, basements, septic tanks, etc.


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## weatherguy (Nov 29, 2018)

White oak has lighter bark and it has small scales. Oh and white oak is tougher to split.


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## FaithfulWoodsman (Nov 29, 2018)

Red oak often has a tangy oaky smell. Some even say like a sour or piss-like smell. White tends to smell sweet or like vanilla. Red oak has a short ray fleck (1/4"-1/2"), while white oak tends to be longer (3/4"-1.5"). Flecks are the small lines in oak when viewing the face of the grain when split (not the cut end).


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## Sawset (Nov 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> I draw the line at trying to blow through my wood.


The skill might come in handy some day:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...-can-become-a-backyard-water-filter-16540288/


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## Hasufel (Dec 1, 2018)

FaithfulWoodsman said:


> Red oak often has a tangy oaky smell. Some even say like a sour or piss-like smell. White tends to smell sweet or like vanilla.


Great point--I usually find the "sniff test" to be easy and reliable. The red oak around me tends to smell like fermented fruit. It happens to be among my favorite smells. Others claim to dislike it so maybe there are regional variations because of soil or climate, but in any event it's pretty easy to differentiate from white oak.


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## Ashful (Dec 2, 2018)

Those who dislike it may be dealing with swamp oak, it smells like cat piss.  Most red oak smells quite nice, IMO.


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