# Convert to Nat. Gas or keep Oil??



## kingston73 (Mar 19, 2011)

Our street is getting a natural gas line and so now I have a choice of converting or just keep my oil furnace.  Have any of you converted, and if so was it worth it?  Our furnace is about 30 years old and needs some serious servicing, but we don't use a lot of oil, only about $700 for the past 6 months.  The natural gas company said it will cost about $850 for them to run the line from the street to our house, but then we still need to pay somebody else to install the new furnace and get rid of the oil tank, and I don't have any idea how much that'll be.  Opinions and ideas welcome, thank you ahead of time.


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## JustWood (Mar 19, 2011)

At least get the line installed . That way you'll have options. $850 is CHEAP for a line install.
LOT'S of nat gas is going to make it cheap and stable for some time.


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## smokinj (Mar 19, 2011)

Gas is very high here. Not the gas but the service!


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm swapping out to NG this summer.  I'll only have to swap out my burner.  

Matt


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 19, 2011)

The service isn't cheap here either, but I want to put in an indirect tank for water heating at the same time.  The water heater has an 8/78 date code on it.  

Matt


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## fishingpol (Mar 20, 2011)

+1  Certain-lee have the line installed.  Install a new furnace when the old one is done.  You'll be able to install a gas kitchen stove with that service line if you want.  You could even get a high-effiency furnace that vents out pvc pipes out the side of the house and possibly free up a flue for other wood burning appliances.  Depends on your provider, if they have the Mass Save program, you may get a break on a new furnace if you get rid of your old one..   I smell some ca$h being spent...



www.masssave.com


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## North of 60 (Mar 20, 2011)

kingston73 said:
			
		

> Our street is getting a natural gas line and so now I have a choice of converting or just keep my oil furnace. Have any of you converted, and if so was it worth it? Our furnace is about 30 years old and needs some serious servicing, but we don't use a lot of oil, only about $700 for the past 6 months. The natural gas company said it will cost about $850 for them to run the line from the street to our house, but then we still need to pay somebody else to install the new furnace and get rid of the oil tank, and I don't have any idea how much that'll be. Opinions and ideas welcome, thank you ahead of time.



Ive probably spent $700 in 6 years on oil and would still switch if I could. An oil furnace will run 86% at its best for efficiency and requires more maintenance cost. A natural gas unit can run at 93 to 96% efficient. Less heat up the stack. A 100F compared to 425F with oil. Get that line in. Especially what you are consuming now. Thats incredible usage for 6 months in your climate. A complete natural gas furnace high efficiency unit will run around $1600. A new oil burner not counting the furnace is worth more than that. Get that line roughed in to your home now. It will be money well spent.


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## rehabbingisgreen (Mar 20, 2011)

See if you can calculate the cost of the nat gas vs the cost of oil in your area and see if it is cost effective. I know there are energy conversion charts that would help you but off the top of my head I don't have one handy. If I was looking at the long run over a lot of years I'd go with gas because the price is so much lower than heating oil the places I've lived.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Mar 21, 2011)

Here's a link to a Fuel Cost Comparison chart which should help.

http://woodheatstoves.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=26&zenid=8603c35c48d53e537ed56f76b1b28145


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## peakbagger (Mar 22, 2011)

The long term outlook is that the demand for oil is going to rise worldwide as its getting hard to get plus it needs to be imported, its alos needs to be refined. Natural Gas doesnt ship well so it pretty much is tied to the north american market. The amount of processing required to make it usable for supplying a pipeline is minimal compared to oil.  Currently there iare 200 years of proven reserves in North America so the odds are gas is going to be more available which usually means less expensive. Obviously its dependent upon the local utility on price, but natural gas looks to be a good bet. If it was in the street, I would be hooked up to it. Its also requres far less service compared to oil.


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## Fsappo (Mar 22, 2011)

Natural gas is a no brainer here


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## KarlP (Mar 22, 2011)

Advantages gas:
Something like 18 out of the last 20 years its been a cheaper fuel than oil.  (I expect that to be the same over the next 20.)
Higher efficency furnaces are available for gas
Less routine furnace maintenance required.
Gas is cheap in the summer, so hot water/stove/dryer cost very little to operate outside the heating season.
Natural venting hot water heaters require no electrical power.  If you have town water, a hot shower is a nice luxury during an extended ice storm power outage.

Disadvantages gas:
A fuel leak could blow your house off its foundation.
You are tied to a single supplier.
Delivery charges & fees keep increasing a lot (for me anyway).
While rare, you can have a gas outage or broken meter leaving you without fuel.

Advangates oil:
A fuel leak won't blow up your house.
You typically have a choice of many suppliers.
You can fill up off season when it is cheaper.
A hundred gallons of fuel oil + a diesel generator gives you energy independence in a disaster like Japan is seeing right now.

Disadvantages oil:
Its usually more expensive.
Furnaces are a little less efficient.
It pollutes a little more.
It smells a little more.
Need to snowblow a path to your oil fill pipe in winter.
Need to keep an eye on the tank to make sure you don't run out.
Basement & environmental cleanup from a fuel leak will cost a bundle.


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## btuser (Mar 22, 2011)

Natural gas here in the East if you can get it.  Coupled with a modulating boiler you can save a boatload of cash.


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## kingston73 (Mar 23, 2011)

I appreciate all the replies, and I agree with you all that nat. gas is the way to go, but the unfortunate fact is I'm not going to be able to afford it, at least not anytime soon.  I got a couple of estimates and the lowest so far has been about $8000 total, including removing the oil tank and old furnace.  I think we are going to get a new, more efficient oil burning furnace which should cut down our oil use a lot, plus we are getting a new wood stove at some point before next winter.  In an ideal world and for long term use I know gas is the way to go, but it's just too much right now.


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## Exmasonite (Mar 23, 2011)

honorabLEE said:
			
		

> At least get the line installed . That way you'll have options. $850 is CHEAP for a line install.
> LOT'S of nat gas is going to make it cheap and stable for some time.



I know $850 isn't small potatoes but if possible, strongly consider getting the line put in to keep your options open in the future.  Probably won't be $850 (or anywhere NEAR that) in the future.


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## iceman (Mar 23, 2011)

run the gas line and put on a gas burner on your exisiting furnace... get a new furnace when you can afford too.. in the meantime you will save money just not as much compared to a brandnew high eff unit


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## benjamin (Mar 23, 2011)

kingston73 said:
			
		

> I appreciate all the replies, and I agree with you all that nat. gas is the way to go, but the unfortunate fact is I'm not going to be able to afford it, at least not anytime soon.  I got a couple of estimates and the lowest so far has been about $8000 total, including removing the oil tank and old furnace.  I think we are going to get a new, more efficient oil burning furnace which should cut down our oil use a lot, plus we are getting a new wood stove at some point before next winter.  In an ideal world and for long term use I know gas is the way to go, but it's just too much right now.



A new oil furnace is sort of like throwing good money after bad.  Continuing to burn oil because you have a new oil furnace is exactly throwing good money after bad.  

There are so many things that could push oil higher, that there's almost no chance you'll ever come out ahead when natural gas service is available for $850.  That $8,000 is  a steep price to switch over, how much are they charging for removing the tank and furnace?


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## iceman (Mar 23, 2011)

remove the tank later... someone will be glad to do it ... someone will want to use it ... 
also look around you can get a new install for way less than 8000
There is always a plumber who moon lights... take the furnace info and price the furnace yourself ... Prolly be 2g or less most guys I know usually double everything meaning 2g furnace for them is 4g for you and 4g labor= 8g
if its alot of comp then labor is 2g for 6g total...
guys around here, after work will charge 500-1000 cash, depending on difficulty, plus what the furnace costs them.


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## North of 60 (Mar 24, 2011)

If your oil tank is above ground and they want $8000.00, you are getting yanked.   Is your area finished where they need to run the gas line?


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## iceman (Mar 24, 2011)

Where exactly in mass are you?


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## kingston73 (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm in se mass, near the corner of RI.  My set up is this: rectangular floor plan with the long side parallel to to street.  It's split in 1/2, the front, street side half is finished and rear is unfinished with the oil tank on the end and furnace in the center.  I did get a 2nd quote and this person said it may be around $6000 total.  The $850 street to house install is just a 1 time price, so I will most likely have that done at the very least.  I'm really split on this decision, I really hate being in debt and the wife and I are almost but not quite all paid up on our credit card debt, and we don't have nearly enough cash so if we did this it would all be on credit and put us back into debt again.


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## iceman (Mar 24, 2011)

If you get a new system the use the money you would spend on oil.and it will be paid of in no time 
You spend about 700 every six months? That's 3400 over 3 years 
Trust me its worth it I am doing the same 
I am just waiting to see if I can get 0% through mass save


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## kingston73 (Apr 1, 2011)

I looked into the MassSave program and scheduled a visit from an "energy auditor" to take a look at the house and let me know what my options are, so I haven't ruled out the conversion yet.  By the look of things and based on the weather, the gas company won't reach my house for at least another couple weeks, they've been majorly slowed down by the SNOW(!) and rain we have had recently.  It looks like at the very least I'll be eligible for a zero interest loan, so that might be a possibility.  I haven't scheduled any other estimates yet due to this energy audit.


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## iceman (Apr 1, 2011)

kingston73 said:
			
		

> I looked into the MassSave program and scheduled a visit from an "energy auditor" to take a look at the house and let me know what my options are, so I haven't ruled out the conversion yet.  By the look of things and based on the weather, the gas company won't reach my house for at least another couple weeks, they've been majorly slowed down by the SNOW(!) and rain we have had recently.  It looks like at the very least I'll be eligible for a zero interest loan, so that might be a possibility.  I haven't scheduled any other estimates yet due to this energy audit.










Don't forget to negotiate with the contractor!  Maybe you can get high eff central air!


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## richg (Apr 8, 2011)

Lee nailed it, get the line in to give you options down the road. I had an ultra-high efficiency propane boiler installed as there is talk that they will be running gas lines near my house in the forseeable future. had I gone with oil, no soup for me. I used a grand total of $400.00 of propane this winter, and we have a gas stove in the kitchen.


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## fishingpol (Apr 8, 2011)

kingston73 said:
			
		

> I looked into the MassSave program and scheduled a visit from an "energy auditor" to take a look at the house and let me know what my options are, so I haven't ruled out the conversion yet.  By the look of things and based on the weather, the gas company won't reach my house for at least another couple weeks, they've been majorly slowed down by the SNOW(!) and rain we have had recently.  It looks like at the very least I'll be eligible for a zero interest loan, so that might be a possibility.  I haven't scheduled any other estimates yet due to this energy audit.



I used MASSSAVE too.  The company I work for is doing several energy saving projects with them and we have liked them very much.  At my house, I had insulation blown in a few walls and attic that I had not finished renovating.  After the job was done, an auditor came out and re-estimated what was done and he discovered a simple error in their first estimate.  I received a check back for over $150.00 in a few days with a nice apology.


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## btuser (Apr 8, 2011)

I can't be certain because I don't have a list of your proposals, but an oil install is always going to be more expensive than a gas install. 

How old is your oil tank? If its over 30 years it should go as well. Replacing an oil tank for $850 would be considered a real bargain.
Oil boilers of medium grade are more expensive than comparable gas boilers. I don't think your proposals are comparing apples to apples. More than likely oil guys like to put in oil boilers, because they like the service work oil boilers provide. My oil boiler was over 600lbs, and it was tiny compared to what I took out! Compare that to what it would take to get a modulating gas boiler into a bulkhead, when two guys could carry it with one hand a piece, while talking on the cell phone. Oil guys like oil because its their business. Its kind of like an arborist who's learned that cutting down trees doesn't pay in the long run. 
When I did my own install, the boiler was $1500, and the supporting parts were $1200. That's not including a bunch of other stuff. Match the supporting parts. An atmospheric gas boiler is a low-cost option compared to an entry-level oil boiler. I bet you could get the gas boiler for the close to the cost of the oil burner!


If you're worried about debt:
The cost of gas vs oil in Mass has to be close to 20%, so if your fuel cost is close to 3k/year you can either spend an extra $600/year on fuel or on the debt service to a loan that will eventually be paid off.
An oil system must be serviced every year, which will add another $150/year to the cost of the oil system. 
Just the increase in efficiency can pay for itself. I've got oil, but I'd be willing to pay 5k for a natural gas hook-up.


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## btuser (Apr 8, 2011)

I just re-read the original post.  If you are indeed talking about a furnace and not a boiler the difference in price is MUCH higher for an oil furnace.  Get the gas burner if your appliance is rated for it.  If you've got 100 gallons of oil in your tank, someone will take your tank for free.  Please, please, please put in the natural gas line.  

8k for a gas furnace should include central air, and resealing/reworking every scrap of duct in the home.  8k is a new home install price, not a retro.


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## kingston73 (May 11, 2011)

It's been a while since I first posted but I've gotten a few other estimates since then, could you all take a look and tell me what you think of these?  Best estimate for converting to a 95% efficient nat. gas furnace and water heater is $7500, plus about $900 to connect our house to the street, so a total of $8400.  That includes a direct vent water heater and removing all the old oil equipment.
Option 2 estimate is basically the same but with an 80% efficient nat.gas furnace and using our chimney to vent (relined with metal liner) for $5600

With this last company their estimate for new oil equipment was $6800, so it really doesn't make any sense to stay with oil at all.  Do these seem like reasonable figures, and is there anything else I should ask or find out?


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## Highbeam (May 11, 2011)

Is the oil furnace now inoperative? If it works, and you have other debts then I would just keep using the oil. The deal you are getting for the gas line (900$) is worth doing now since it will add at least that much value to your home and since to do that work in the future will cost much much more. 

Don't make this a 9000$ problem, make it a 900$ problem and put additional money to better use.


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## kingston73 (May 11, 2011)

Part of my problem is things work for now but it's a 30 year old system so I don't know how much longer it will keep working.  I'm also looking at the tax rebates that I can get if I do this before the end of 2011.


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## fishingpol (May 11, 2011)

Take the estimate on the gas furnace and have two other quotes done for the identical equipment and removal of the old unit and tank.  I would get 3 estimates from different plumbers.  That is where you will see the savings.  Each will have their mark-up on the job.  This way if there is one company you would like over the others and their price is higher, show them the cheaper estimate and see if they will price match.

I would definitely replace the 30 year old unit.  Go for the rebates.  I would be concerned with the heat exchanger cracking on the old one, could be a bad situation down the road.


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## kalevi (May 12, 2011)

I had a gas furnace put in 3 years ago. I was paying close to $2000 every year for oil. With my gas furnace, I'm averaging about $700 a year. I'm in Ontario so prices will be different but it cost me about $5000 for them to take out the old furnace+ oil tank and put in the new furnace. The new one is 97% efficient with a DC motor. It ramps up slowly so you never even notice the heat come on. I strongly recommend you go with the gas furnace.


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## iceman (Jun 28, 2011)

Gas bill today $44.38 for 33 therms basically $1.33 a therm everything included...
Oil is 1/3 more btus per gallon than therms...
So equal in heat and price gas is $1.76 to price of oil per gallon
On a good winter, I would use 700 gallons of oil at whatever price ... In comparison it would be $1238.38 for gas and $2303 for oil
So as you can see it will pay back to switch ... 
Also I am in western mass I believe your gas prices are the same but oil maybe higher 
That was at $3.29 a gallon


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## EatenByLimestone (Jun 28, 2011)

The install of oil to gas was completed yesterday for me.  Another benefit I don't see listed is the burner is quieter!

Can you have a conversion burner installed?  Have you kept an eye open on Craigslist for an appropriately sized gas furnace?  My oil boiler was only installed a few years ago so I was reluctant to change. 

Matt


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