# More aggressive chain for my Stihl



## jj3500 (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm looking for a more aggressive chain for my stock Stihl MS 361.  Saw was purchased brand new last year.  Cut quite a bit with it already.  Like it.  What do you guys recommend for an all out chain.  Would like something that is much more aggressive.  

Thanks for your input!


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## LLigetfa (Jun 23, 2009)

Stihl RS full chisel.  Holds an edge well and puts all 4 horses to work.


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## JR82 (Jun 23, 2009)

Been using the Stihl RSC on my 036 pro.  I believe its their 'comfort' full chisel.  I'm happy with it just bought a second one.


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## smokinj (Jun 23, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Stihl RS full chisel.  Holds an edge well and puts all 4 horses to work.




+1


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## Spikem (Jun 23, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

> LLigetfa said:
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+2


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## stee6043 (Jun 23, 2009)

+33 and one third.  Keep the green tag chains for cutting dirt covered junk wood when you're bored...


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## jj3500 (Jun 23, 2009)

OK...went to the Stihl dealer where I bought my 361 from last summer.  I told exactly what I posted up top.  He essentially talked me out of it.  That there is a difference, yes.  But by no means...dramatic. Additional information too.  My stock chain will stay sharper longer than that of the full chisel.  Full chisel will be sharper but dull quicker.( i realize there will always be a trade off)

So...I didn't buy one.  Just going to sharpen my existing one.


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## LLigetfa (Jun 23, 2009)

Well... you can choose to believe your dealer or buy one and see for yourself.  I've been using full chisel for decades so I don't know if other chains have made advancements but I doubt it.


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## smokinj (Jun 23, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Well... you can choose to believe your dealer or buy one and see for yourself.  I've been using full chisel for decades so I don't know if other chains have made advancements but I doubt it.



+1


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## stee6043 (Jun 23, 2009)

jj3500 said:
			
		

> OK...went to the Stihl dealer where I bought my 361 from last summer.  I told exactly what I posted up top.  He essentially talked me out of it.  That there is a difference, yes.  But by no means...dramatic. Additional information too.  My stock chain will stay sharper longer than that of the full chisel.  Full chisel will be sharper but dull quicker.( i realize there will always be a trade off)
> 
> So...I didn't buy one.  Just going to sharpen my existing one.



Holy crap man....I dare say your dealer has never used one based on that advice.  Wow....wow....and wow.  I think the word "dramatic" is an understatement when talking about the difference between my green chains and  yellow chains, and I'm not a dealer.

I switched to yellow tags on the same cutting day as using green tags.  It's like using a different saw, my friend.   Your dealer is...ummmm...on crack?  That doesn't make any sense.  And any chain will suck if you run it into the dirt all the time.  Keep any of them out of the dirt and you'll be much better off.


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## jj3500 (Jun 24, 2009)

My Stihl dealer is very hands on.  These guys love their line of work and in fact, he told me he was at a Stihl expo where they had the two chains side by side.  He himself was doing the bucking.  He stated there was a slight difference.  Nevertheless, you guys are the real test.  I'm going to go buy one with a larger bar.  I've got some big logs I've got to buck.  (free CL stuff).  

Thanks for input.


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## computeruser (Jun 24, 2009)

RSLK!  When you can't put a good square edge on it anymore, regrind it round and it can live out its life as a round-ground chain.


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## Jags (Jun 24, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Stihl RS full chisel.  Holds an edge well and puts all 4 horses to work.



JJ - this was real good advice given.  Not sure where your dealer is coming from, but I have also compared A to B and there was quite a difference.

I have no reason to question ComputerUser in his chain choice, as he is very knowledgeable, but I don't even know what the hell round-ground is. :lol:


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## joshlaugh (Jun 24, 2009)

As we all know any Stihl saw you buy has to come with the safety chain(at least here in Ohio).  I have talked to many dealers who sell mostly to occasional users and they constantly try to persuade you away from the real chains like RSC. In fact I was pricing out a new full skip chain and 1 dealer didn't even know what I was talking about!  So like others I have cut with both and there is a huge difference to me.  If you are experienced and comfortable with your saw I would only use RS and similar non-safety chains.  They cut much faster.

Square ground chains are interesting, I looked into buying one to give it a try but it seems to be much more difficult to sharpen plus time consuming.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm in a minority here but I like skip tooth (regardless of bar length), round bit chains. I'm not sure the model or letter designation.  I find skip tooth chain, whether chisel or round bit, cut as well as non-skip chains and half the teeth means half the teeth to sharpen.  Also, I cut a lot of logs that have been yarded and are dirty and since I don't want to file my chain every half tank of fuel I go with round bit chains.


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## jj3500 (Jun 25, 2009)

Can anyone answer this for me?   RSC and RS, whats the difference?  is it major or minor?  


thanks


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## Gooserider (Jun 25, 2009)

Jags said:
			
		

> LLigetfa said:
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There are two methods of putting the edge on a chain Jags...  One is "round ground" which is what most everybody uses, probably including you - it is sharpened with either a round file, or a grinder with a round edged wheel, and has a cutting edge that is more or less semi-circular in shape on the side of the tooth.  It is the most popular method of sharpening because it gives good results, and is very fast and easy, with a minimum of tooling needed.

A square ground chain will in theory cut better / faster / longer, but is considerably harder to sharpen - essentially it is sharpened with flat files in such a way that you have a precise square corner at the point where the top and side of the cutting tooth intersect.  The cutting edge on the side of the tooth is straight.  However it is a LOT harder to sharpen, and requires more expensive tooling and more skill to do the job.  While it is theoretically better, the reports I've seen say the difference is small, and with the exception of a few production cutters, or folks doing competition where every fraction of a second counts, relatively few people find it is worth the effort.

RSLK is the Stihl factory produced square ground chain, and what CU was suggesting is to use that until you are finding it difficult to keep the factory edge on it, at which point it can be resharpenned and used for the rest of it's useful life as a standard round ground (RSC) equivalent.

Gooserider


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## Jags (Jun 25, 2009)

Thanks Goose, that fills in the question marks.


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## computeruser (Jun 25, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> A square ground chain will in theory cut better / faster / longer, but is considerably harder to sharpen - essentially it is sharpened with flat files in such a way that you have a precise square corner at the point where the top and side of the cutting tooth intersect.  The cutting edge on the side of the tooth is straight.  However it is a LOT harder to sharpen, and requires more expensive tooling and more skill to do the job.  While it is theoretically better, the reports I've seen say the difference is small, and with the exception of a few production cutters, or folks doing competition where every fraction of a second counts, relatively few people find it is worth the effort.
> 
> RSLK is the Stihl factory produced square ground chain, and what CU was suggesting is to use that until you are finding it difficult to keep the factory edge on it, at which point it can be resharpenned and used for the rest of it's useful life as a standard round ground (RSC) equivalent.
> 
> Gooserider



Well said.  The stuff is nice to use, though.  Sharpening is a task, until you get the hang of it (which I totally haven't yet, especially on the super hard Stihl cutters).  But it's fun to play with, and when you finally get tired of trying to get your corners and angles the way they should be, you can re-file or grind it with a regular file/wheel, and use the chain up like a "regular" chisel chain.

For the normal woodcutter who sharpens with a round file, I think the Oregon stuff is the way to go.  I find it so much easier to file Oregon chain by hand than anything else out there, and it still holds a respectable edge.  Heck, it's almost fun.  And it's easy enough to touch up after each tank, that you actually don't mind doing it.  With the Stihl stuff (and to a lesser extent GB, Carlton, WP), I usually wait until it's dull, swap it off, and regrind at home.


The videos tell part of the story, but the feel in your hand is totally different.  

Square:






Not square:





In this larger stuff, it was obvious that the saw was laboring less with full-comp square chain than it would have with with full-comp round.


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## Creek-Chub (Jun 26, 2009)

Another vote for "Your dealer is on crack".

When I switched from a safety chain to an RSC, and also with a full chisel, bucking wood literally went from being a chore to being fun.  It was that big of a difference.  Go buy one.


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## Arlo (Jun 26, 2009)

I thinks most dealers don't like selling spool-stock chisel chains to homewners becsue we tend to be careless....except those on this forum. They don't want someone coming back with stitches in their face or leg saying "my friend told me you should have warned me about that chain..blah blah blah" So they tend to tell the homeowners theres no difference. I understand why they do that. I would get tired of newbs cutting themselves due to the kickback and then crying to me about why I sold them the chain.

Its also a pain because homeowners never know what size or pitch they need so the salesman have to look up their model and then go coutn the links and push the pin in....all this on a saturday morning when they have a line full of people. 

Its just easier to say "theres no real difference"


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## smokinj (Jun 26, 2009)

Arlo said:
			
		

> I thinks most dealers don't like selling spool-stock chisel chains to homewners becsue we tend to be careless....except those on this forum. They don't want someone coming back with stitches in their face or leg saying "my friend told me you should have warned me about that chain..blah blah blah" So they tend to tell the homeowners theres no difference. I understand why they do that. I would get tired of newbs cutting themselves due to the kickback and then crying to me about why I sold them the chain.
> 
> Its also a pain because homeowners never know what size or pitch they need so the salesman have to look up their model and then go coutn the links and push the pin in....all this on a saturday morning when they have a line full of people.
> 
> Its just easier to say "theres no real difference"



+1


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## joshlaugh (Jun 27, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

> Arlo said:
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+2 In fact I was getting looks from my local dealer for asking him to order me a full skip chain for a 20" bar.  I don't think most of the dealers around hear even know what they are.  2nd store this week who asked me what a skip chain was.


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## Gooserider (Jun 27, 2009)

joshlaugh said:
			
		

> smokinj said:
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Maybe its a knowledge test - if you don't know what it is well enough to explain it, they don't want to sell it to you...

Gooserider


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## Flatbedford (Jul 2, 2009)

What's a skip chain?


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## jj3500 (Jul 2, 2009)

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RSF


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## kobudo (Jul 2, 2009)

JJ3500 - Thank you for the link.

Tell me if I am reading the information correctly......
If I have a 021, 14" bar,  3/8" and .050 I would order the #3993?  It looks like I would have to specify bar length of 14".
Am I missing something?  What chain would you suggest?  I have access to a ton of pine and birch but most of it isn't huge in diameter.


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## jj3500 (Jul 2, 2009)

Anyone here feel free to correct me.  

Kobudo, the chain you are looking at is typically for a larger saw with a much larger guide bar.  I don't think 14" is in the category.  

My suggestion, after I used a full chisel myself, is to get any of your choice with the yellow diamond symbol(states Warning!).


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## Gooserider (Jul 2, 2009)

kobudo said:
			
		

> JJ3500 - Thank you for the link.
> 
> Tell me if I am reading the information correctly......
> If I have a 021, 14" bar,  3/8" and .050 I would order the #3993?  It looks like I would have to specify bar length of 14".
> Am I missing something?  What chain would you suggest?  I have access to a ton of pine and birch but most of it isn't huge in diameter.



While some folks use skip chain on everything, the normal rule of thumb is that if you are running a standard or short bar for a given size saw, you are better off using "full complement" (aka "full comp" or standard) chain.  Skip chain is mostly for folks that are running bars that are on the long side of normal for a saw, or "over-barring" it...  My personal rule of thumb is that for best results you should have about 3-4 cc's of engine for each inch of bar length...  I.E. a 14" bar is good on a 40-45 cc saw, while to run a 20" bar, you should have about a 60cc saw (and if you have a 79cc saw like mine you will be doing serious smiling at the way it goes through wood  :coolgrin: 4cc / inch is really fun...)

IOW, if you have 3-4cc of engine per inch of bar (with rounding), get a normal chain, if you are much under 3 cc / inch or less, get a skip chain or a shorter bar...

Usually the chain guage and pitch are implied by the chain number, so you don't have to specify them when ordering, however since you can put any one of several bars on a given saw, you would need to specify the either the bar length AND what saw you are using, or (preferably) the "link count" - the number of drive links in the loop.  The link count is easier for the dealer since that way he doesn't have to look up the saw / bar combo to see how many links it takes...

I don't do the Stihl part numbers, but I would suggest that you want one of their "yellow" chains in a "full chisel" style if what you are after is agressive...

Gooserider


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## LLigetfa (Jul 3, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I don't do the Stihl part numbers...


http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html


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## Backroads (Jul 7, 2009)

jj3500 said:
			
		

> OK...went to the Stihl dealer where I bought my 361 from last summer.  I told exactly what I posted up top.  He essentially talked me out of it.  That there is a difference, yes.  But by no means...dramatic. Additional information too.  My stock chain will stay sharper longer than that of the full chisel.  Full chisel will be sharper but dull quicker.( i realize there will always be a trade off)
> 
> So...I didn't buy one.  Just going to sharpen my existing one.



JJ, which dealer did you get you saw from?  Being a local I'm fairly familiar with them.


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## Flatbedford (Jul 7, 2009)

Well sharpened, the green Stihl chain is pretty good anyway. I wanted a non safety chain for the MS180 that I bought used a few months ago. The dealer had only safety chain for my little saw. With a fresh safety chain that little homeowner saw cuts pretty well.


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