# Replacing a toilet? Any gotchyas before I tear into this today?



## wahoowad (Oct 22, 2011)

I'm under the impression replacing a toilet is a pretty simple affair. Yet I always worry when embarking on any plumbing project as (for me) they never go as planned!

1. turn off water supply, empty water from old toilet, disconnect water, remove hold down nuts, remove entire toilet

2. remove old wax ring, install new wax ring

3. lower toilet down onto new wax ring, tighten down hold down nuts

4. reconnect water supply hose, turn on water supply, monitor for leaks


I am most worried about step 3, namely ensuring I am lowering toilet squarely down on the new wax ring as I'm not aware of anything that guides you to do this perfectly. Any advice or glaring omissions to ensure this goes smoothly?


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## stee6043 (Oct 22, 2011)

If it were me I'd have a second wax ring on-hand in case you need a "redo".  Last time I did one they were cheap insurance...


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## wahoowad (Oct 22, 2011)

good idea. i can always return it on my next trip to the hardware store.


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## stejus (Oct 22, 2011)

wahoowad said:
			
		

> I am most worried about step 3, namely ensuring I am lowering toilet squarely down on the new wax ring as I'm not aware of anything that guides you to do this perfectly. Any advice or glaring omissions to ensure this goes smoothly?



You got it covered... here are some other tips....

Before you place the new ring in the hole, clean out the old wax deposits where the old ring sat and under the bowl where the ring was.  Make sure it nice and clean so the new wax has a good clean surface to sit on.  Placing the toilet onto the ring is not hard at all.  Just get over the toilet and hold it level.  Have a second person position the base over the ring.  Lower the toilet slowly and put some downward pressure to seat it.  When you tighten the bolts, do them equally so it goes down level.  

Obviously, test the toilet before allowing anyone to use it!

Goodluck


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## snowleopard (Oct 22, 2011)

I did my first terlet last spring, and was pretty nervous, too.  Here's some of what I learned along the way:

1) Make sure the kid at the terlet store doesn't inadvertenty get you a wrong model toilet (let's just say, for theoretical example, an ADA-approved one--not saying this is what I have, mind you) because whatever toilet you have at home when you've pulled the old one will be the one you install--wrong color, size, model, you'll just decide to go for it. 

2) Make sure the model you pick is one you'll want to live with for awhile.  A long while.

3) Don't just plan on using the wax ring that comes with the toilet--spend a few bucks for the good one. 

4) Have a hair dryer on hand.

5) When you have the old toilet out, do a careful inspection of the support structure around the toilet.  If there have been hidden leaks, it can deteriorate the joists and cross-pieces put in there.  Also make sure no leaks have gone under the flooring and deteriorated floor or subfloor. 

6) Use two wax rings.  Put the sticky sides together. 

7)  Warm everything--wax ring, base of toilet--up with the hair dryer until the rings start to get a little soft. 

8)  Cannot advise you on placement, except to say that when you get to this point in the adventure, you will know the layout so well that you could do a ninja installation--or have some kind of supersense, like Daredevil, and you will not miss.  Because any other option will be unthinkable. 

9) Remove toilet, remove rag stuffed in the pipe to keep the smell down, repeat steps 3-8. 

HTH.  Thank you for reminding me why today is a GOOD day.


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## northwinds (Oct 22, 2011)

If you can have a second person there when placing the new toilet on the new ring, that second
pair of eyes is very helpful in making sure everything is lined up.


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## boatboy63 (Oct 22, 2011)

Biggest piece of advice I can offer is be careful when picking up the old one. There will be water caught in the trap and as soon as you tilt it, it will be all over your feet, floor, etc. I have always heated the top of the wax ring and applied it to the bottom side of the new toilet. This way, it is in place and won't move. I suggest you have your new toilet unboxed, check for cracks, and allow it to warm to room temp for hours before putting it in place. Also, be sure to tighten bolts evenly and only snug. Retighten a little each day as it seats in better. If you tighten too much to one side or overtighten, the ceramic will crack.


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## billb3 (Oct 22, 2011)

Sit on the toilet to squeeze down the wax ring and get the toilet base onto the floor.
Try not to 'rock' it down.
Borrow a heavy person if you have to.  
Much too easy to break the  vitreous china  using the  flange nuts to pull it down.


If you have a Toto toilet you might find a odd UniFit adapter.


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## colebrookman (Oct 22, 2011)

They have some upscale wax rings that have like a funnel that fits the hole better.  Also before you start tightening sit squarely on the bowl facing the back to seat the ring better.  New bolts help. No big deal. Be safe. Ed

Edit, you beat me Bill!


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## fishingpol (Oct 22, 2011)

Use a paper cup to remove as much water from the bowl.  Stuff some paper towels in the bottom to soak up what is left.  Open a large trash bag to set the old toilet in to catch stray water when you remove it.  A cheap plastic putty knife or paint mix stick is great and disposable for cleaning the old wax off the flange.  You can cut a straw in half and put them sticking up on the toilet bolts to line up the new toilet if you need to.  As long as the wax ring is not very cold, it will seal fine.  Don't over think this.  Toilet leak at the flange if the floor is not level  and the toilet rocks on the floor.  If it sets fine and is secure you will be fine.


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## EJL923 (Oct 22, 2011)

1.  Have a rag on hand that you dont care about to stuff in the hole while you work to keep the smell out of your face.  make sure its a tight fit so it doesnt roll down the hole of no return
2.  dry fit the toilet first so can can be ready for any rocking you may have to deal with
3.  as others have said, have an extra ring on hand
4.  get the ring with the rubber neck on it, added insurance against leaks
5.  may be a stupid thing to say, but dont assemble the tank onto the toilet until after it is placed on the ring


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## boatboy63 (Oct 22, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> You can cut a straw in half and put them sticking up on the toilet bolts to line up the new toilet if you need to.


Love this idea. I do store maintenance for a major retailer and get my share of toilet replacements. Always thought there had to be an easier way of lining up the bolts. Now I have it. Thanks.


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## fishingpol (Oct 22, 2011)

I lost track of how many toilets I remove and install in my job.  Probably hundreds over the years.  I never use the straws, but it can help.  Drain cleaning guys re-form the wax ring and have no leak issues.  They probably pull a few toilets a day.


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## Cazimere (Oct 22, 2011)

Use old toilet before starting.


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## smokinj (Oct 22, 2011)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> If it were me I'd have a second wax ring on-hand in case you need a "redo".  Last time I did one they were cheap insurance...



Yea and sometime you may need a double thick one. Stacking two of them not good.


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## JustWood (Oct 22, 2011)

If an older home, potential rotted floor from leaks or condensation.


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## begreen (Oct 22, 2011)

Make sure the offset from the back wall of the toilet tank to the centerline of the drain is roughly the same. Some units have quite a different offset if they have a different tank arrangement or elongated bowl. FWIW, I like to install a toilet so that there is at least 1" air space behind the tank. This helps prevent mold build up from the sweating tank in the summer.


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## btuser (Oct 22, 2011)

Make sure the toilet you pick out has the same rough-in dimensions as the one you're removing.  A friend of mine ordered a $1500 custom color (don't ask) job and then had to pay the plumber/drywaller/tile man to re-rough the hole.   In my last house I replaced a toilet when we were redoing the floor.  The rough-in hole was 7.5" from the wall so 1/2 the wax ring was clogging the hole.   I had wasted a ton of time thinking the poor flush was a venting issue.  

I always get the good ring with the rubber insert, but I put the ring on the toilet, put the bolts on the flange and then lowered it down.  I get a good feel for alignment because the rubber seal guides me into the toilet flange.  I would definately get two wax rings.


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## wahoowad (Oct 22, 2011)

OK, running into my first problem. 

It turns out my flange sticks up about an inch (concrete slab floor), but the toilet was flush and level when I initially set it down to see how it all fit up. So I then put on my wax seal and set the toilet in place. The wax seal really lifts the rear of the tank and I am not sure if I should fully squash down that seal or if it is still going to lift the toilet up some? It has lifted it up and there is a big gap under the toilet.

I put my body weight on it a bit, gave it some slight rocks back and forth. Right now I am slowly tightening down each bolt, going back and forth every couple of turns to do it evenly. I'm concerned if I should shim the front before I tighten it down too much? I'm not sure though as it is unclear how much of a shim I will need as that seal is going to flatten quite a bit.


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## wahoowad (Oct 23, 2011)

Well, nothing like spending a gorgeous fall day inside fighting a 'simple' plumbing job 

I think my PVC flange is mounted too high for the toilet to bolt down without wobbling. The original toilet wobbled too although fortunately did not leak. I'm not going to reinstall a new toilet on top of that flange.

I have a concrete floor with a 3" waste pipe. My PVC flange fits around the outside of it and appears to be glued on, so isn't going to come off easy. What I do not know is why it is so high - maybe a replacement will also sit high? I've been watching tons of youtube videos about how to fix flanges but none seem to address this particular issue. Goddamn I hate fooling with plumbing stuff.


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## fishingpol (Oct 23, 2011)

I had the same situation at work, hairline crack down the pvc a few inches.  Our plumbing contractor came out and used an internal pvc pipe cutter and installed a new flange that fit to the inside of the pipe.  I wonder if your slab settled over time?  There are several types out there, some cheap, others not. PVC is soft enought to be cut with a serrated cutter, just be sure the new flange will fit inside the 3" pipe.  The flange should also be set into the concrete with a hammer drill and tapcon screws, as the pvc flanges don't have much meat where the bolts secure in the flange.


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## semipro (Oct 23, 2011)

I've installed the "waxless" gaskets on two toilets now with great results.

They are reusable.


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## Flatbedford (Oct 23, 2011)

This is timely. I will be replacing two toilets at my place in the next few weeks. Thanks.


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## Hass (Oct 23, 2011)

wahoowad said:
			
		

> Well, nothing like spending a gorgeous fall day inside fighting a 'simple' plumbing job
> 
> I think my PVC flange is mounted too high for the toilet to bolt down without wobbling. The original toilet wobbled too although fortunately did not leak. I'm not going to reinstall a new toilet on top of that flange.
> 
> I have a concrete floor with a 3" waste pipe. My PVC flange fits around the outside of it and appears to be glued on, so isn't going to come off easy. What I do not know is why it is so high - maybe a replacement will also sit high? I've been watching tons of youtube videos about how to fix flanges but none seem to address this particular issue. Goddamn I hate fooling with plumbing stuff.



Shim the terlet?

Also, I hope you bought a good one.
I bought a uhm.. I don't remember the name of it... It was 99 from Home Depot, had a 10 on it's scale of flushing power so I figured it was as good as the $300 Kohler that had a 10 flushing power... Boy was I wrong. I plug it up about 2-3 times a week. About 3 weeks after I installed it, I had it plugged up so good that I couldn't plunge it, snake it, or any homeade remedy (letting dish soap soak in it, etc...). So I had to undo the toilet, and pick my poop out of it while it's 10 degrees outside. I guess the cold made it smell less... But holy smokes, it smelled horrid. So I still plug it up every now and then, not as bad as that day... usually I just poop at work until I get the spare time to replace the toilet with a much better model.


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## begreen (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm with you Wahoowad, I hate this crap.


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## Hogwildz (Oct 23, 2011)

Had that same problem in my old place. Wondered why the toilet rocked after changing the toilet.
A few years later I remodeled that bathroom, and installed laminate flooring over the entire floor. Small bathroom, maybe 4' x 5'. Had to get longer flange bolts, but his time it gave the toilet a flat surface o rest on.
Problem solved LOL, after a few years and a remodel. I would suggest either shimming it or looking for a toilet that has a taller base flange, enough to accommodate the height of you drain flange. Plumbing sucks, toilets suck even more!


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## snowleopard (Oct 23, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Yea and sometime you may need a double thick one. Stacking two of them not good.



Jay's right, here. That's what I did, bought a double-thick one and pitched the one that came with the toilet.  Reading this thread reminded me of how much of that day I've mercifully blocked out.


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## smokinj (Oct 23, 2011)

snowleopard said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
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> 
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Had lots of those days!  ;-)


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## btuser (Oct 23, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> snowleopard said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No doubt plumbing is the worst.  I've done everything from digging a ditch to mounting a weathervane and plumbing is hard, hard, hard.  My first house was brass/lead.

How high are we talking about?  Enough to slip a tile underneath (probably the plumber's intention)?  If that's the case I'd take a sawzall with a 10" blade and cut the pipe flush to the floor.  Then get a new flange that mounts to inside of the 3" pipe and glue it in/attach it to the concrete floor.  You'll lose a bit of diameter but the trap of your toilet is less than that regardless.  For the love of GOD, make sure you line up the tank bolts before you glue it!  After this you don't get a 2nd chance.


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## pastera (Oct 24, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> I've installed the "waxless" gaskets on two toilets now with great results.
> 
> They are reusable.


+1

So much easier....


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## bjkjoseph (Oct 24, 2011)

cant rely on the johnny bolts to hold down the toilet..set the bowl down on some plaster of paris...level....tighten bolts...wipe up with wet sponge...that bowl wont rock..and it will be level.


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## wahoowad (Oct 24, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Problem solved LOL, after a few years and a remodel.



Yes, it sure looks like tiling the floor would solve my problem. That is the long term plan but want to remodel the entire bathroom (shower, vanity, floor) and just not ready for that. Toilet really needed it (was embarrassing) so was OK paying twice down the road for a second reset of the toilet. Sort of unsure what to do because fixing it for laminate may make it unusable if floor gets tiled.



			
				bjkjoseph said:
			
		

> cant rely on the johnny bolts to hold down the toilet..set the bowl down on some plaster of paris...level....tighten bolts...wipe up with wet sponge...that bowl wont rock..and it will be level.



I saw this done on youtube. Would the grout adhere to both the tank and the vinyl floor such that it would stabilize the tank and prevent it from moving?


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## Jack Straw (Oct 24, 2011)

If you have a flexible supply "hose" to the toilet it's a good idea to replace it. They tend to get a groove in the rubber fittings and leak when you install it on the new toilet. I use a sponge to get the water out of the toilet.


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## bluedogz (Oct 24, 2011)

wahoowad said:
			
		

> I saw this done on youtube. Would the grout adhere to both the tank and the vinyl floor such that it would stabilize the tank and prevent it from moving?



Nope.  Grout is not very flexible, nor is it likely  to adhere to vinyl.

If the previous installer left space  for tiling, then cutting the flange is a recipe for trouble.  How about just get $2 worth of tiles at the hardware store, shim up the bowl with those, then when you do the big project just throw them away.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 24, 2011)

Plumbing . . . perhaps the one thing I hate doing since it always seems as though I mess something up each and every time. In fact, when things go right the first time with no leaks, drips or other problems I've always worried that I simply am not seeing some major problem.


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## btuser (Oct 24, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> Plumbing . . . perhaps the one thing I hate doing since it always seems as though I mess something up each and every time. In fact, when things go right the first time with no leaks, drips or other problems I've always worried that I simply am not seeing some major problem.



Often the joints are bad and you can't tell.  A perfect-looking joint you cover up will turn green and fuzzy after 5 years, then slowly start dripping and inviting ants to borrow all along the floor joist and along the North sill of the house.  Then, 10 years later you're ripping out the perfectly tiled floor in the sun room to get at major rot.  When you finally get to the pipe you can't even recognize it, and your wife starts screaming as the ants try to escape the poison by fleeing into the house.

Plumbing sucks.


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## Bocefus78 (Oct 24, 2011)

change out the shut off valve and supply line. Use a braided metal line, not a pvc or vinyl one.  The valves will get corroded and limed up and the one time you need to shut it off, it may break in your hand.


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## Highbeam (Oct 24, 2011)

I really like those flexible braided SS hoses. I use them on everything. 

The bolts. Good chance the bolts will spin in the flange and you will need to cut them off to remove the old toilet. New ones are cheap.


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## Jack Straw (Oct 24, 2011)

I got one of those "multi-tools" from Harbor Freight. Does a great job cutting those "johny" bolts off.


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## cottonwoodsteve (Oct 28, 2011)

Using two wax rings will cause problems. They may squeeze down and in too much and restrick the outlet area. 
Use correct spacers from H.D. They are about 3/8 inch thick and you just stack them to correct for thick tile etc.
New toilets don't flush for S*&^. So pick one that you can modify the float and stand pipe. Just another inch or two of water in tank can make all the difference in the world. 

Get new shut off valve and feed hose.

Seal with RTV all around base to keep crud from collecting. RTV doesn't stick that well so you can remove toilet it later without damaging flooring.
Leave a a few inch gap in sealent in back where you can't see it. Then if there is a wax ring or other problem you will see a leak with water coming out.
If you seal it totally any leak is not visible and your floor rots.

To move the old one. HF furniture dolly. The flat wood type. Cover dolly with plastic trash bag pressed down a little in center of dolly.
This makes a cart with a water catch basin to wheel the old one through the house and out the door.

A lot of things you can open the box and try out in the store, I don't think toilets are one of them:>)


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## RKS130 (Oct 28, 2011)

Good luck.  I hate plumbing almost as much as plastering.  I think the high points have been covered but defintely replace the cutoff valve and suppply line while you are at it.


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## wahoowad (Oct 30, 2011)

Today I totally ****ed it up. I was removing the old flange that is glued to the top of the 3" pipe that goes down into my concrete slab floor. I was cutting notches in it, then using a screwdriver to pop off sections. Saw several youtube videos on how to do it. It was working fine. Then I broke the 3" pipe. I split it. Godamn I hate the easy plumbing jobs.


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## RKS130 (Oct 30, 2011)

My sympathies.  How far back do you have to go to replace the 3" line?


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## wahoowad (Oct 30, 2011)

The crack ran about 10" down the side of the pipe, at a slight angle. I do not know how far down the pipe goes. My house is built on a slab and I don't know how thick it is or what is underneath. I have a feeling I'm going to find out.


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## RKS130 (Oct 30, 2011)

If you can access it, try cutting just below the crack and using a union.  At least you won't have to get involved with the slab.


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