# Richmond® 50 Gallon Electric Water Heater with Hybrid Heat Pump any good?



## brenndatomu (Jul 13, 2019)

Thinking about replacing my 50 gallon electric WH with one of these units, been looking at these for a while now...mine is working fine, but is of an unknown age...probably at least 25 YO. I usually run em 'til they blow, but with the sale right now, they don't get any cheaper than this, I'm sure if I wait until mine dies that this will not be on sale, especially one this good.
I guess I could buy it and let it sit in the garage until needed, but then the warranty is ticking away too...decisions decisions...advice, input? Sale ends tonight.
An additional bonus would be possibly not needing to run the dehumidifier in the basement anymore...ugh...sometimes its tough being a tightwad  
I think these units are made by Rheem...same as their HPWH...rebadged to sell at BB stores?
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...671-c-8688.htm?tid=8956776417898725648&ipos=1


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## Highbeam (Jul 13, 2019)

I wouldn’t replace a functional appliance because of that deal. When I click on your link it says 1156$ for a 50 gallon water heater.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 13, 2019)

$935 after sale and rebate...


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## EatenByLimestone (Jul 13, 2019)

Your old one may last another 10 years.   I'd wait.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 14, 2019)

Well, went for it...not going to install it right away, too busy with other stuff to stop and replace something that doesn't really need replaced right now. Will burn a little warranty this way but oh well, it has 2 yr full, 10 yr parts, and for $70 extra, a full 12 years parts/labor including 1 free replacement if it can't be repaired.


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## maple1 (Jul 15, 2019)

Does your state have any incentives?


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## brenndatomu (Jul 15, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Does your state have any incentives?


Yes, some places, but not our specific utility company...


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## PaulOinMA (Jul 15, 2019)

This Old House recently did a heat pump water heater.  Pretty neat!


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## sloeffle (Jul 23, 2019)

I know I'm a little late to reply.

Converting my electric hot water heater to a HPHW paid for itself after 1.5 years. That savings doesn't count the costs of not having to run a dehumidifier too. We save around $50 a month just in making hot water. We got ours a few years ago so I'm money ahead already. IMHO - I'd rip the old water heater out and out put the new one in as soon as you can.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jul 23, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well, went for it...not going to install it right away, too busy with other stuff to stop and replace something that doesn't really need replaced right now. Will burn a little warranty this way but oh well, it has 2 yr full, 10 yr parts, and for $70 extra, a full 12 years parts/labor including 1 free replacement if it can't be repaired.


As long as you already have it every month you wait is costing you $ .    Id swap it out and drain and keep the old one for a backup or sell it.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 23, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> As long as you already have it every month you wait is costing you $ .    Id swap it out and drain and keep the old one for a backup or sell it.


I'm just too busy with "summer" projects right now...gonna be a winter project...


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## maple1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Ha - I've got unfinished winter projects around here, from like 15 winters ago.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 23, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Ha - I've got unfinished winter projects around here, from like 15 winters ago.


   Well I have a few "long term" projects that need finished too, (anybody need a 1996 GMC K3500 4x4 dump truck...some assembly required? ) but this one is in my way in the garage right now, so it will be installed as soon as I get the chance...


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## Sodbuster (Nov 13, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well I have a few "long term" projects that need finished too, (anybody need a 1996 GMC K3500 4x4 dump truck...some assembly required? ) but this one is in my way in the garage right now, so it will be installed as soon as I get the chance...



When I was looking at water heaters, I didn't hear anything good about them, same with tank less with hard water.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 14, 2019)

Sodbuster said:


> When I was looking at water heaters, I didn't hear anything good about them, same with tank less with hard water.


You can get a pretty good review of them here. The good and the bad. Been all good for me so far.  Once or twice i got an error message and had to switch it off and on to reset,but thats it. Not bad for 4 to 5 yrs iv had it.  I have the 50 Gal. and when set on high demand it keeps up to 10 people in the house . (Normally just 4)The rest of the time set on heat pump only for 350%  savings.


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## sloeffle (Nov 14, 2019)

Sodbuster said:


> When I was looking at water heaters, I didn't hear anything good about them, same with tank less with hard water.


Mine has paid for itself twice already in lower electric bills. If it died, I'd go get another one tomorrow.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 14, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> Mine has paid for itself twice already in lower electric bills. If it died, I'd go get another one tomorrow.


Id do the same. And id still go with the 50 ga as i never run out of HW.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 16, 2019)

I know several friends who have gone with the hybrid water heaters and they love them. If I had a full basement I might have gone that route for the replacement water heater that I ordered recently, but with the heater in the utility room next to the oil boiler I opted to not purchase the hybrid due to the noise, size and concern that it would have some potential issues doing its hybrid "thing" next to the oil boiler.


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## maple1 (Nov 16, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> I know several friends who have gone with the hybrid water heaters and they love them. If I had a full basement I might have gone that route for the replacement water heater that I ordered recently, but with the heater in the utility room next to the oil boiler I opted to not purchase the hybrid due to the noise, size and concern that it would have some potential issues doing its hybrid "thing" next to the oil boiler.



Kind of sounds like that would be a good place for one?


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 16, 2019)

Not much noise, just a fan and compressor hum.  Any warm area is a good fit. but operates efficiently Down to about 45. Is about 12 to 18 in taller than a standard WH.


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## Sodbuster (Nov 16, 2019)

All I know are from the reviews I've read, and I've researched them a lot. I throw out the 5 star ratings from people that have had them a week. I also throw out the one stars from people who give no reason, "they just suck" What good does that do anyone?  It appears they had a bad run 3-4 years ago. The contoller or some other crucial  part was defective, and the factory had to wait a couple weeks, while meanwhile, customers without hot water. Because of the wide swing in reviews, I decided to go with a standard gas power vent.  What intrigued  me with the hybrid  model, is I wasn't  tied to one location.  Also because mines a standard unit, I can have a new one or a part replaced the same day.


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## billb3 (Nov 22, 2019)

Unless you are heating the room it is installed i n  with free wood how much are you saving in the Winter (or the cold season  in your area requiring home heating ) ?


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 22, 2019)

billb3 said:


> Unless you are heating the room it is installed i n  with free wood how much are you saving in the Winter (or the cold season  in your area requiring home heating ) ?


Most furnace rooms are unheated in my experience. Usually basement rooms where the room is mostly heated from  heat coming off your furnace or boiler.  In those cases your never going to spend a cent reheating that area as there is usually no radiation or hot air vents servicing that area. My HPWH is a few feet from my boiler and the area is usually 80 plus degrees all heating season as the boiler has an insulating jacket but a lot of heat still escapes,plus a lot of hot copper water pipes coming off the boiler. The HP only temporarily takes 1 or 2 degrees from that area.


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## Don2222 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hello
I got an Eco 24 and only heat the water when I turn on the faucet. Cheaper and better for under $500. 
See Home Depot cheapo Price








						EcoSmart ECO 24 Tankless Electric Water Heater 24 kW 240 V ECO 24 - The Home Depot
					

EcoSmart ECO 24 is a 24-kilowatt tankless electric water heater ideal for providing hot water for apartments, condominiums, townhomes and other whole home applications. It can provide between 2.4 and 5.8 gallons-per-minute depending on the inlet water temperature. To select the best solution for...



					www.homedepot.com


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## maple1 (Nov 27, 2019)

Disagree on the cheaper & better part.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 27, 2019)

maple1 said:


> Disagree on the cheaper & better part.


I cant see it as better than a  HPWH.  And changing your whole ELectric entrance service is not an easy or cheap task. Certainly you will spend more when you add that in.  No standing losses but also not making hot water for 370% less cost than a  standard resistance WH.


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## sloeffle (Nov 28, 2019)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> I got an Eco 24 and only heat the water when I turn on the faucet. Cheaper and better for under $500.
> See Home Depot cheapo Price
> 
> ...


3 x 40AMP Breakers = ((120AMPS * 240V )*.14 my per KWh cost) = $4.032 per hour to run . That thing is sucking down some serious juice when running. Nice looking install BTW.

Personally, I'll take my HPHW any day of the week. It costs me roughly $5 a month to heat hot water, and in the summer time it dehumidifies my basement.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 28, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> 3 x 40AMP Breakers = ((120AMPS * 240V )*.14 my per KWh cost) = $4.032 per hour to run . That thing is sucking down some serious juice when running. Nice looking install BTW.
> 
> Personally, I'll take my HPHW any day of the week. It costs me roughly $5 a month to heat hot water, and in the summer time it dehumidifies my basement.


Do you think it makes your basement feel "cold"?


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 28, 2019)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> I got an Eco 24 and only heat the water when I turn on the faucet.


You should get yourself a Pex crimper ($40 ) You would save a fortune on sharkbite fittings.  Most of the pex fitting are just .50c to under 1$ from pex universe. As an example my local Hdwe store is charging $7 for a sharkbite 1/2 plug. I can buy a pex crimp type plug for$.36c .  Ball valves are $2.90 Pex universe is slightly more. Sharkbite is $10 to $12 from my local Hdwe Store.


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## sloeffle (Nov 28, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Do you think it makes your basement feel "cold"?


During the summer, and when I'm running the wood burning furnace - no. Outside of those periods - yes. My basement is only 768 sq ft though. If your basement is bigger I don't think your temperature fluctuations will be as bad. They recommend a minimum installation space of 750 cubic feet  ( Site location section). That seems awful small though.


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## maple1 (Nov 28, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> 3 x 40AMP Breakers = ((120AMPS * 240V )*.14 my per KWh cost) = $4.032 per hour to run . That thing is sucking down some serious juice when running. Nice looking install BTW.
> 
> Personally, I'll take my HPHW any day of the week. It costs me roughly $5 a month to heat hot water, and in the summer time it dehumidifies my basement.



And I'll take my plain Jane tank heater any day of the week, over an on demand.


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## Z33 (Nov 29, 2019)

Just installed mine about a month ago and so far I'm thrilled with it. 

Keeps up with 4 showers no problem. Only draws about 600 watts in heat pump mode and is fairly quite. 

For anyone on the fence about this ...BUY IT !


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 29, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Do you think it makes your basement feel "cold"?


Takes 1 or 2 degrees from my basement year round which recover when its not running. I dont notice any difference at all. Room is 400sf adjoining another 575 sqft room.


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## sloeffle (Nov 29, 2019)

Z33 said:


> Just installed mine about a month ago and so far I'm thrilled with it.
> 
> Keeps up with 4 showers no problem. Only draws about 600 watts in heat pump mode and is fairly quite.
> 
> For anyone on the fence about this ...BUY IT !


What make and model do you have ?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 24, 2019)

Finally getting around to installing this thing today...wish me luck...the kids needs baths later on...


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## sloeffle (Dec 24, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Finally getting around to installing this thing today...wish me luck...the kids needs baths later on...


It took me about two hours to install my new one. I did have to cut some of the piping ( pex ) because I put the new one on blocks.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 24, 2019)

Set to Hybrid or High demand for quick warm up. Then back to Heat pump mode.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 24, 2019)

It will take me longer since the two hook up so very different...plus I need to run a condensate line too.
Its taking forever to drain...100' hose out to the driveway drain, and it seems to plug up now and again too...water heater sludge in the bottom I'm sure...


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 24, 2019)

This time year i get very little water from the drain. In summer its a lot.


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## sloeffle (Dec 24, 2019)

It took forever for our tank to drain too. About an hour in my patience got the best of me and I ended up draining a lot of the tank via the cold water inlet. I flush my tank every few months too.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 24, 2019)

I cut the copper lines and soldered the new unions on while it drained...old heater is out now. The install commences after some lunch...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 24, 2019)

Wasted too much time looking for tools and materials/supply's today...need another hour to be running, but have a family gig to go to, guess I get to finish this up later.
Pipe dope was AWOL for at least a half hour...then the plumber dope remembered where he put it after the last plumbing project


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 24, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> It took forever for our tank to drain too. About an hour in my patience got the best of me and I ended up draining a lot of the tank via the cold water inlet. I flush my tank every few months too.


Im referring to the condensate drain for the HPWH.  Low humidity this time of year = little condensate water.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 25, 2019)

Well, still have a few loose ends to tie up, but she's making hot water...didn't get powered up until this morning then.


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## sloeffle (Dec 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Well, still have a few loose ends to tie up, but she's making hot water...didn't get powered up until this morning then.


That thing is fancy. My AO Smith doesn’t give any of that information out. You’ll be happy you put it in when you get your next power bill.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 25, 2019)

I'm not home today, but I have been online trying to find out how to get into the "tech only" menu...I'm sure there is one... 
Also, it was interesting, I added about a 16" piece of 8" metal duct onto the intake to make it pull warmer air off the ceiling...the ambient temperature reading went up 5*, that has to help efficiency since the Kuuma is only about 15' away...


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## brenndatomu (Dec 25, 2019)

I'm surprised by how quiet it is too...


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## sloeffle (Dec 25, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm surprised by how quiet it is too...


Our new HPHW is a lot quieter than the old one. It looks like yours is 2db quieter yet. 

The Rheem definitely has some things about it that I like more than mine.  Your air filter setup is way better and I like that you can set it up to text you alerts too.  Hopefully it will last you a long time.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 26, 2019)

Would be nice if my Geo spring went into Hybrid mode at a certain cool water temp.  So i dont have to manually set it to hybrid during heavy use periods.


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## Brian26 (Dec 27, 2019)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Would be nice if my Geo spring went into Hybrid mode at a certain cool water temp.  So i dont have to manually set it to hybrid during heavy use periods.


 
GE has a wifi module for 50 bucks that lets you control your tank to do just that right from your smartphone. I believe the software is open source that controls it so tons of people have done some cool stuff like read all the sensor data. 






						PBX23W00Y0 | U+ Connect Module  | GE Appliances Parts
					

U+ Connect Module



					www.geapplianceparts.com


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## brenndatomu (Dec 27, 2019)

I didn't look at it real close because I am not interested in it, but I think there is something on this Richmond that has to be bought to make the whole cellphone communication/control thing work...back when I was reading reviews on this unit I remember people whining about having to buy an extra optional part that they felt they were mislead into believeing that it came with everything needed for the wifi to work...I dunno...having the touchscreen readout is good enough for me...


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## mellow (Dec 27, 2019)

That touchscreen readout is nice, wish my AO smith had that.   It took me about 5 hours and 3 trips to lowes for parts to swap out my WH to the hybrid.  Its in a tight spot and had to redo all the plumbing and add the condensate lines which was a pia as it barely fit in the spot I had to put it in.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm just looking forward to seeing how much of a dent this thing puts in our electric bill. 
My guess is $15 per month less in the winter, and $5-10 per month more than that in the summer (due to decreased dehumidifier usage)
I have it set to run in "heat pump only" mode for now, just to see how well that works out for us...might try "hybrid" mode out at some point too...


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## brenndatomu (Jan 14, 2020)

So I finally got around to measuring the power consumption on this beast tonight. Running in heat pump mode it was only using 312 watts!
I never thought I would be eager to see the next electric bill...


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## Brian26 (Jan 14, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> So I finally got around to measuring the power consumption on this beast tonight. Running in heat pump mode it was only using 312 watts!
> I never thought I would be eager to see the next electric bill...



Your measurement is off.  I think you need to double it. They all draw around 500-650 watts.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 14, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> Your measurement is off.  I think you need to double it. They all draw around 500-650 watts.


1.3A x 240 (ish) volts...


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 14, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm just looking forward to seeing how much of a dent this thing puts in our electric bill.


Our old WH used to cost about $35 a month to run (family of 4)  .  The HPWH closer to $10         $300 savings  per year  So after the first yr savings and the rebate its all money in the bank.  I think im in my 4th yr with it.


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## sloeffle (Jan 15, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> Your measurement is off.  I think you need to double it. They all draw around 500-650 watts.


I have mine on an Efergy and it draws around 300 watts when running.


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## sloeffle (Feb 12, 2020)

@brenndatomu how much did your electric bill drop by ?


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## brenndatomu (Feb 12, 2020)

The last bill was still a combination of the old and new heater...the next bill should be here any day...I will update when I get it.
I have a rough idea just from looking at the KWH on the meter, that it is going to come in around $20 month...but it is going to take a full year to get the whole picture since it may eliminate the need to run an additional dehumidifier...


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## Brian26 (Feb 12, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> I have mine on an Efergy and it draws around 300 watts when running.



I still think that's off. Each line of the 240v circuit should be pulling 300 watts so its using 600 watts. I have the Efergy system as well with 5 sensors. Do you have CTs on both legs and it set to 240?

Almost all these hpwh use around 500-600 watts but the Richmond doesnt list the compresor wattage specs. Is looks like a rebadged Rheem? The Rheem compresor is listed at 4200 btu drawing around 500 watts.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 12, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> . Is looks like a rebadged Rheem?


Yes


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 12, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> Almost all these hpwh use around 500-600 watts but the Richmond doesnt list the compresor wattage specs.


Correct my GE uses about 550 Watts in heat pump mode.


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## Z33 (Feb 12, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> What make and model do you have ?


Rheem eco net.


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## Z33 (Feb 12, 2020)

Z33 said:


> Rheem eco net.




My solar app tells me mine pulls 660 watts when it runs in heat pump mode.


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## sloeffle (Feb 12, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> Do you have CTs on both legs and it set to 240?


Yep. My Efergy doesn't allow me to set the voltage. I see it in the manual of the current Classic model.


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## mcdougy (Feb 12, 2020)

How do these prices compare?


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## Kiotick4010 (Feb 12, 2020)

I have two , in different houses.  One three years old and the other two.

No problems, and even if they are in heated areas of the basement or house, getting rid of the dehumidifier is a major cost savings..

Our utility and stathad a great rebate program when I bought.  One ended up costing me $50 after the rebates and the other was actually free.

I would buy another even at full price.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 15, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> @brenndatomu how much did your electric bill drop by ?


My bill came today, looks like I'm down 121 KWH from the same period last year...not that the two can be directly compared, but best I can do until I have a full 12 months to compare. 
The billing cycle was 32 days, so that's 3.78 KWH per day...and I'm betting that not running the dehumifier as much this summer with make even more difference than this too...plus I'm hatching a plan that may even limit using the AC as much...we really don't run the AC that many days per year anyways.
Oh, and our total price is $0.117 (taxes and fees in) per KWH, so 121 KWH saved means $14.16 less per month...which means this machine will take a while to pay for itself...but 1 month worth of data is hardly conclusive, and as I said, I think the big money savings will come this summer.
After I have it long enough to establish a track record, I will try it in hybrid mode...it is in heat pump mode only now, which I assume will be the most cost effective way to run it...hybrid mode has been working fine though, save one night when my wife had a less than hot shower (and she likes it steamy hot!) after both the kids bathed (using too much water in the tub IMO!)
All in all so far, I am not disappointed with it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 17, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> After I have it long enough to establish a track record, I will try it in hybrid mode...it is in heat pump mode only now, which I assume will be the most cost effective way to run it...hybrid mode has been working fine though, save one night when my wife had a less than hot shower (and she likes it steamy hot!) after both the kids bathed (using too much water in the tub IMO!)


I have mine turned all the way up to 140. If you have a tempering valve in your system you wont even notice. It increases the available hot water as it adds more cold to the usage to bring the water at tap back down a bit. I normally keep it in Heat pump mode but still need hybrid mode when company is here or sometimes on laundry day.   Mine saves about $9 per person ,per month for a houshold of 4 .


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## brenndatomu (Mar 16, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I have mine turned all the way up to 140. If you have a tempering valve in your system you wont even notice. It increases the available hot water as it adds more cold to the usage to bring the water at tap back down a bit. I normally keep it in Heat pump mode but still need hybrid mode when company is here or sometimes on laundry day.   Mine saves about $9 per person ,per month for a houshold of 4 .


I get what you are saying...but I think you will have higher standby loses though too...plus I don't want to take a chance of one of the kids burning themselves since I don't have a tempering valve...

Got the second full months bill today...down 99 KWH from last month...and 198 KWH from the same time period last year...so that's $23.44/mo. less...heading in the right direction!


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## brenndatomu (Apr 16, 2020)

Got another electric bill today...this one is down a whopping 171 KWh from the same period last year...that's worth $20.48...and we are still in heating season here...I think once cooling/ dehumidifing season starts it will drop even more...


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## JRHAWK9 (Apr 16, 2020)

Is electric hot water -that- much more than LP?   We use around 100gal of LP a year for both our water heater and clothes drier (use between 125-150 gallons total a year for all LP appliances).  At today's LP price of $1.20/gal that means it costs us a total of $10 a month to heat our water and dry our clothes.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 16, 2020)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Is electric hot water -that- much more than LP?   We use around 100gal of LP a year for both our water heater and clothes drier (use between 125-150 gallons total a year for all LP appliances).  At today's LP price of $1.20/gal that means it costs us a total of $10 a month to heat our water and dry our clothes.


Well, I didn't think so, but apparently it is...we are also still using the electric dryer, running a smaller freezer, electric stove/oven, and 2 refridgerators, so with having only used a total of 565 KWh in 29 days, I'm saying those appliances are responsible for 80-90% of my bill...


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## brenndatomu (Apr 16, 2020)

Oh, and can't forget the Kuuma blower motor and well pump too...


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## JRHAWK9 (Apr 16, 2020)

I should look at what we use for electric, as I'm sure it's probably quite a bit.  We have one fridge and an electric stove/oven, but we also have three desktop computer systems running almost 24/7.  Plus the well pump and Kuuma blower.  In summer we have dehumidifier going downstairs in addition to the AC.


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## sloeffle (Apr 17, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> 565 KWh in 29 days


That's impressive. 

We are generally between 1,000 KWh - 1,500 KWh. Our house is all electric though. I don't burn much wood during the shoulder seasons because the house just gets too hot. I'd say most of my usage is for heating / cooling.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 17, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> That's impressive.
> 
> We are generally between 1,000 KWh - 1,500 KWh. Our house is all electric though. I don't burn much wood during the shoulder seasons because the house just gets too hot. I'd say most of my usage is for heating / cooling.


The only time we have went over 1000 KWh in a month was when I first started burning wood, I installed a stove in the basement and used electric radiators in the "cold corners" of the house...yeah, that didn't work out too well...


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## sloeffle (Apr 20, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> The only time we have went over 1000 KWh in a month was when I first started burning wood, I installed a stove in the basement and used electric radiators in the "cold corners" of the house...yeah, that didn't work out too well...


Those electric space heaters can really suck down some juice.

Our geo uses around 2.4 kW when running on first stage, and around 3.7 kW when it kicks over to the second stage. The geo rarely runs in the second stage. When they put it in, they designed it to run on the first stage 90% of the time. I don't even have the third stage strip heaters wired up because they take two 60 AMP breakers . If I remember correctly, they cost around $2 per hour to run with at my current power cost of .14 cents per kWh.


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## Highbeam (Apr 20, 2020)

Both electricity and propane fuel costs vary widely across the country. I’ve seen 3 cents per kWh in eastern wa to 30 cents in the ne. Propane is worse. From under 1$ per gallon to 4$. 

All to say, you need to run your numbers including the efficiency of the appliance.


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## JRHAWK9 (Apr 24, 2020)

Just got our bill and I grabbed it to look at it and also created an online account to view past months.  I don't pay this bill, so I never paid attention to it.

This month's usage was 753 kWh, cost was $104.

Here's the history of use:





We sleep with a fan on every night as well.  It's not the tyical box fan, it's more of a commercial-type all metal fan.  We wanted one that was loud and this one was advertised as loud and perfect for those looking for white noise.  LOL  We sleep in the loft, so there are no doors to shut and we want to drown out any pet movement and other various sounds during the night.


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## JRHAWK9 (May 20, 2020)

This month's usage dropped to 609 kWh.  This is the lowest usage time of year though for us, with limited Kuuma blower runtime, no A/C and no basement dehumidifier.


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## brenndatomu (May 20, 2020)

JRHAWK9 said:


> This month's usage dropped to 609 kWh.  This is the lowest usage time of year though for us, with limited Kuuma blower runtime, no A/C and no basement dehumidifier.


We are at 620 kWh this month...down 96 from same time last year...I'm liking the general trend here with this HPWH. Just now getting into the time where we usually start using the dehumidifier some, so we'll see if my thinking that the dehumidifier won't be needed much now turns out to be true or not.


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## JRHAWK9 (May 20, 2020)

JRHAWK9 said:


> This month's usage dropped to 609 kWh.  This is the lowest usage time of year though for us, with limited Kuuma blower runtime, no A/C and no basement dehumidifier.



I guess I should say last month's usage...as the bill went from April 21 - May 19


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## sloeffle (May 21, 2020)

I'm a little jealous of your electric usage. I've been WFH since March sometime due to COVID-19 which doesn't help either.

I emailed the electric company because I am seeing weird highs and lows on my usage




I have a hard time believing I used 1kWh of electric on a couple of those days. They said I used 91 kWh when it spiked in April. The funny thing is, my electric was out most of the day because I had to rebury the underground going into my house.


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## brenndatomu (May 21, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> I have a hard time believing I used 1kWh of electric on a couple of those day. They said I used 91 kWh when it spiked in April. The funny thing is, my electric was out most of the day because I had to rebury the underground going into my house.


Things that make you say hmm...


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## Highbeam (May 21, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> View attachment 260386
> 
> I'm a little jealous of your electric usage. I've been WFH since March sometime due to COVID-19 which doesn't help either.
> 
> ...



This is part of the reason I installed the home energy monitor that displays real time power consumption and daily consumption.


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## mellow (May 26, 2020)

Yea, I use Sense to keep track of my energy usage because I did not trust the electric company.  It does a top notch job of that and I can see what my bill will be $$$ for the month ahead of time, it is within a few dollars from the final bill.


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## blades (May 26, 2020)

Would not be the first time the computer at a power company messed up,  among other screw ups.


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## sloeffle (May 27, 2020)

Got an email back from my power company. They said my meter doesn't send my electric usage back to the electric company at the same time every day.


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## blades (Jun 1, 2020)

random time selection ? sounds fishy to me.  Have to give them credit for coming  up with the best  excuses I ever heard.  Could be a net work load thing i suppose but...... one would think they would be using equipment capable of the load.  Does you bill break down into amount used per day?  Mine is by the month only other break down is heating or cooling days.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 1, 2020)

blades said:


> random time selection ? sounds fishy to me.  Have to give them credit for coming  up with the best  excuses I ever heard.  Could be a net work load thing i suppose but...... one would think they would be using equipment capable of the load.  Does you bill break down into amount used per day?  Mine is by the month only other break down is heating or cooling days.


The highs and the lows are always back to back...plausible.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 9, 2020)

Forgot to update with the last bill...went from 682 kWh in June 2019, down to 564 for June 2020...savings of $14.14
The next bill should start to reflect not having to run the dehumidifier...BUT, maybe not, because with the extreme hot spell we are in now, the extra AC usage may mask the savings...we will see.


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## vinny11950 (Aug 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Forgot to update with the last bill...went from 682 kWh in June 2019, down to 564 for June 2020...savings of $14.14
> The next bill should start to reflect not having to run the dehumidifier...BUT, maybe not, because with the extreme hot spell we are in now, the extra AC usage may mask the savings...we will see.



Thank you for the updates.  I am considering installing one of these in the basement.  Currently I have a 10 year old on demand electric water heater, which I hope has another 5 years of life.  However my utility offers a $650 rebate if I buy a hybrid model, so I could buy a new hybrid model for about $600.  Then I would just have to calculate the monthly savings plus the dehumidifier effect in the basement, which is a great benefit in the summer, as the humidity becomes an issue.  Plus I would free up 3 breaker spots in the breaker box, which is running short on breaker slots.  I am still on the fence of when to do this, but your thread helps a lot.  Thanks.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 29, 2020)

Just as I thought...the July bill went up compared to last year...hard to decipher anything too much from it because it was also for 33 days instead of 30. I think we are still on the right track though, because even with the AC being on most of the month, I still averaged 31 kWh per day instead of the 33 from 2019...


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## brenndatomu (Aug 29, 2020)

vinny11950 said:


> Plus I would free up 3 breaker spots in the breaker box, which is running short on breaker slots


How so? They still get wired up to 240...so 2 legs of 120v...if you are running in hybrid mode (or electric only) they still use big power if/when the electric elements kick on...I used the same wiring as I had for my previous 50 gall electric heater.
I have mine set to "heat pump only" mode, so the electric elements don't kick on. We have only ran low on hot water once that I know of...but it would have been fine if I would have taken my shower last instead of my wife...I like warm showers, she likes HOT.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 29, 2020)

Menard's has the same HPWH that I installed cheaper than I've ever seen it right now...$867 after sale and mail in rebate! (store credit)


			https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/water-heaters/heat-pump-water-heaters/richmond-reg-50-gallon-electric-water-heater-with-hybrid-heat-pump/10e50-hp4d/p-1499409305671-c-8688.htm?tid=-5888820524521747500&ipos=4


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## maple1 (Aug 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> How so? They still get wired up to 240...so 2 legs of 120v...if you are running in hybrid mode (or electric only) they still use big power if/when the electric elements kick on...I used the same wiring as I had for my previous 50 gall electric heater.
> I have mine set to "heat pump only" mode, so the electric elements don't kick on. We have only ran low on hot water once that I know of...but it would have been fine if I would have taken my shower last instead of my wife...I like warm showers, she likes HOT.



Not sure his circuit configuration. But on demand electrics have really big amperage needs, way more than conventional tank heaters. Having said that, my 18kw electric boiler does only use up 2 panel spots. Using a huge breaker and wiring.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 29, 2020)

maple1 said:


> But on demand electrics have really big amperage needs, way more than conventional tank heaters.


Still should only be 2 legs of 120...unless its 3 phase (very doubtful) would just be large breakers/wiring...just as with your e boiler


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## maple1 (Aug 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Still should only be 2 legs of 120...unless its 3 phase (very doubtful) would just be large breakers/wiring...just as with your e boiler



Thinking so also but no experience with on demands. Didnt know if they maybe could have something like a circuit for each element. Or something like that.


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## Highbeam (Aug 29, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Still should only be 2 legs of 120...unless its 3 phase (very doubtful) would just be large breakers/wiring...just as with your e boiler



No, these things have multiple double pole breakers. Like 3 - 40 amp 240 volt feeds. That's 6 slots.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 29, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Like 3 - 40 amp 240 volt feeds.


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## vinny11950 (Aug 30, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> How so? They still get wired up to 240...so 2 legs of 120v...if you are running in hybrid mode (or electric only) they still use big power if/when the electric elements kick on...I used the same wiring as I had for my previous 50 gall electric heater.
> I have mine set to "heat pump only" mode, so the electric elements don't kick on. We have only ran low on hot water once that I know of...but it would have been fine if I would have taken my shower last instead of my wife...I like warm showers, she likes HOT.



Had to check the breaker box again, and the on demand electric water heater is only using 4 spots, 60 amps each.  So if i went with the hybrid I would open up 2 spots on the breaker box.  I have the Steibel Eltron Tempra Plus 24.  It has been really good and it has saved us money compared to the old electric tank heater the house came with.   But the hybrid technology makes it tempting to switch, especially if I get the rebate and manage to save money, then it should pay for itself.


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## mellow (Aug 31, 2020)

Surprised to see rebates for switching from electric to electric, my COop would only do rebates for Gas/Oil to Electric.


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## Highbeam (Aug 31, 2020)

mellow said:


> Surprised to see rebates for switching from electric to electric, my COop would only do rebates for Gas/Oil to Electric.



It's about conservation. They also provide rebates for switching from incandescent bulbs to LED.


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## vinny11950 (Sep 1, 2020)

mellow said:


> Surprised to see rebates for switching from electric to electric, my COop would only do rebates for Gas/Oil to Electric.



I think it's also about managing peak load for those few times of the year when the capacity reaches its limit.  And Long Island suffers from high energy costs, so it's probably cheaper to conserve than to build/buy more supply.

My house is all electric.  It's a small ranch, and still the average monthly electric bill is about $150.  My goal is to get it close to $100.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 19, 2020)

August electric bill came back down to a more normal range after the non stop heat let up in July...it would be down ~100 kWh from the same period last year, if adjusted for the same number of billing days per bill...or about 4 kWh hour per day...oh, and still haven't had to use the dehumidifier in the basement...


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## CaptSpiff (Sep 19, 2020)

vinny11950 said:


> My house is all electric.  It's a small ranch, and still the average monthly electric bill is about $150.  My goal is to get it close to $100.


The on-demand or instant home water heaters really only save your "storage heat losses" from a full tank sitting hot in a cold space.
The heat pump water heaters will heat your water a bit slower, but at a cop of around 3 or 4, that's 30% the monthly cost of a regular tank type. Definitely a win at our $0.21/kwh.
Only question is: where will the unit be located, in the basement or in the living area?


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## brenndatomu (Oct 18, 2020)

Sept. bill is down 252 kWh's from the same period last year! We must have had a hot September last year (I don't recall) as that is surely due to (at least partially) AC usage.
So for me this is almost $30/mo. savings this month.
I'll continue these updates through the end of the year, which will give me a full year history comparison.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 21, 2020)

Looks like I forgot to post the October bill...it was down 9 kWh per day, or 254 kWh for the month...or almost $30 saved!
I just got my November bill too...lowest bill I've had in years!
Went from 657 kWh last year, to 475 for the month this year...total bill is sub $60


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## Brian26 (Nov 21, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Looks like I forgot to post the October bill...it was down 9 kWh per day, or 254 kWh for the month...or almost $30 saved!
> I just got my November bill too...lowest bill I've had in years!
> Went from 657 kWh last year, to 475 for the month this year...total bill is sub $60



I have solar so I don't pay for electricity but I connected an electricity monitor to my  HPHW tank.  For my wife and I it was averaging around 1-2 kwh a day. Even if I we had to pay for the electricity with the 3rd highest electricity costs in CT it was less than $10 a month. The savings are insane.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 25, 2020)

12th electric bill since installation arrived yesterday (Merry Christmas!   )
569 kWh compared to 738 last year.
When I get a few minutes I will add up the total savings for the year...


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## brenndatomu (Apr 10, 2021)

So I finally remembered to compare 2020 electric usage to 2019 (pre HPWH)
2020 was 1852 kWH less than 2019...for us, that is a savings of $216.68. ($18/MO)
No way to say for sure that is the EXACT amount the HPWH was directly responsible for saving us, but it was the only change made... everything about our household was basically the same otherwise, so I'ma say the HPWH was responsible for 99% of that.
So with what I paid for it, and with paying $70 more for the extended warranty, that gives me roughly a 5 year payback...and I have that 10 year full warranty....so it will have paid for itself, and the next one by the very soonest time I could potentially have to pay for another one out of pocket...and it seems like the prices have come down on them too, but no regrets...


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 10, 2021)

That's a nice return!


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