# Loud Whining Noise on Englander 25-PDVC Room Air Blower



## RingoesMan (Dec 31, 2014)

SSIA. First season with a pellet stove, and my unit has been in operation since the first week of October 2014. I am still figuring the thing out, but I have generally had no major problems. Until tonight. When I operate the room air blower on 8 or below, I have no issue. But when I crank it to 9, it makes an incessant high-pitched whining noise. I've had it on 9 for nights at a time with no problem, but now this noise can be heard from rooms away and is driving me (and the dog!) insane. Is it just a matter of cleaning or greasing something, or is this rooted deeper?


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## CladMaster (Dec 31, 2014)

Clean the cage / fins inside the unit, dog / cat hairs will clog the cage that spins. It's a pain to get to the cage, you have to drop the blower from the stove (make sure the power lead is removed from the mains before you do anything, electricity can kill).

Also, oil the end shaft, do the same for the exhaust blower. Some motors have oil holes, some don't. -- 3 in one or engine oil is fine for this. Do not use WD-40, it will wash the oil out of the bearings.


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## RingoesMan (Dec 31, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> Clean the cage / fins inside the unit, dog / cat hairs will clog the cage that spins. It's a pain to get to the cage, you have to drop the blower from the stove (make sure the power lead is removed from the mains before you do anything, electricity can kill).
> 
> Also, oil the end shaft, do the same for the exhaust blower. Some motors have oil holes, some don't. -- 3 in one or engine oil is fine for this.



Dude, solid advice. Only one problem - where is the blower? I had to remove the top auger motor on Monday and did it based on the instructions on the ESW website, so I'm not an idiot and can probably get the blower out, but I just don't know where it is. Also, good call on the dog and cat hair - I have one of each and they shed like it's going out of style.


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## CladMaster (Dec 31, 2014)

As you look at the stove from the front, the room air blower is on the right lower side, the same side as the control panel. There are 4 bolts that need to be removed to get it out, you should be able to reuse the gasket.

EDIT:  Added a picture .... in the picture you will see the control board, the motor is on the left in this picture as this is the view from the rear of the stove.


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## RingoesMan (Dec 31, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> As you look at the stove from the front, the room air blower is on the right lower side, the same side as the control panel. There are 4 bolts that need to be removed to get it out, you should be able to reuse the gasket.



Understood, seems fairly straightforward. I'll take a look in the morning and report back with results.


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## CladMaster (Dec 31, 2014)

UPDATE ===  See post above


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## RingoesMan (Dec 31, 2014)

CladMaster said:


> UPDATE ===  See post above



Man, thanks for helping out. On NYE, no less. You have my eternal gratitude.


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## jss227 (Dec 31, 2014)

That motor is a PITA to take out. Try reaching in with an old toothbrush to loosen any buildup, then try to vacuum it out. I made a two foot long nozzle out of 5/8 clear hose and taped it to the end of my shop vac. Also anything you get loose should blow out when your blower turns back on.


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## Beaudeen (Jan 1, 2015)

That's a new stove and I wouldn't think the blower motor needs a cleaning yet. I've run mine for 5 years and just recently did my first clean on the blower. The inlet screen was completely clogged with dust. The only reason I opened it up was the room blower output had dropped. All good as new now.

     Regarding the blower settings 1-9, I never felt any difference in the output on any setting so I leave it at 5 for no reason. So, if yours runs quiet on anything below 9, I'd leave it there and call it a day.


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## Jackfire (Jan 1, 2015)

Just replaced my room air blower on my 25EP 4014 and at 6 it vibrates and at  9 it whines like a banchee  its the 2nd blower and I don't dare call and complain   Any ideas ?


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## RingoesMan (Jan 1, 2015)

Alright guys, as promised I'm reporting back after pulling this thing out and giving it the old once-over. I took some pictures along the way and posted a little narrative here for your viewing pleasure. 
http://imgur.com/a/mTBM6
A few specific notes:

jss227 - yes, this was a real pain to get out, but it was even worse to get back in. I wound up having to remove the control board and tuck it out of the way. Good call on the toothbrush idea, too, it knocked most of the grime off once I got the motor out.
CladMaster - I oiled it up as you suggested. Not sure if that's what made the difference or if the cleaning was what helped. Also, one of the little fin things on the blower has a little chink in it, but it looks like it was manufactured that way. Is that typical of these, and what purpose does it serve?

Beaudeen - I think the idea behind raising the room air blower level is to keep the stove from overfiring. I hate to think what would happen if I left it at a 5 with the fuel feed at a 9 for a night. 
Now, my only real issue is this: am I going to have to pull this thing out and clean it every three months? That just seems like overkill and an incredible pain. Thoughts?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 1, 2015)

Jackfire said:


> Just replaced my room air blower on my 25EP 4014 and at 6 it vibrates and at  9 it whines like a banchee  its the 2nd blower and I don't dare call and complain   Any ideas ?




I have several.  

First is to make sure that the motor is what is actually making the noise.  

Sometimes it turns out to be something else that the airflow gets vibrating  when the motor is turned up.

If it is the motor then the crimps that hold the motor case on maybe loose and need a little tlc.

If the motor has lubrication ports and they are facing the wrong way things don't stay lubricated as long as they should.

Also any lubrication schedule needs to take into account how much heat the motor is exposed to.

If there are gaskets between the blower and the stove it is possible that the blower isn't exactly flying true and level or the bolts weren't  evenly tightened  or even tightened enough.

Metal edges in an air flow act as a sound resonator that is rpm sensitive.


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## jss227 (Jan 1, 2015)

RingoesMan said:


> Alright guys, as promised I'm reporting back after pulling this thing out and giving it the old once-over. I took some pictures along the way and posted a little narrative here for your viewing pleasure.
> A few specific notes:
> 
> jss227 - yes, this was a real pain to get out, but it was even worse to get back in. I wound up having to remove the control board and tuck it out of the way. Good call on the toothbrush idea, too, it knocked most of the grime off once I got the motor out.
> ...



 If you look closely, the little "chink" is for an allen wrench to loosen the set screw on the birdcage. These are sealed bearings on these motors. They are filled with grease. Any oil that you can get in them, will leak right back out. I've had several apart and tried 80-90 gear oil. didn't last but 4 days. I have had good luck with high temp grease, but it's not an easy task to tear apart these motors and put them back together. They are not made to be serviced at all.


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## bbfarm (Jan 1, 2015)

Loved your photo of the cat.

Our blower after the season with 3 big hairy dogs


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## Jackfire (Jan 4, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I have several.
> 
> First is to make sure that the motor is what is actually making the noise.
> 
> ...




This is a new room blower from ESW  , not to speak poorly but , after removing to see wat was up i discovered that the blower fins , bird cage , had a very distinct wobble to it causing the vibration , after minipilating it i got it to run TRUE by eye.  Then i went about tightening all nuts and screws which were, i found , lose ; also the gaskets got a trim as they had quite alot of overlap purhaps causing mounting problems. Reinstalled , the whining has decreased significantly and it still has a small vibration to it but maybe that will help the pellets along their way to the auger. All in all i do think customer service  and every thing about ESWs is great and appreciate  all the help theyve given me but FRidays are Fridays  and one is bound to get by so we make it work and grin.


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## RingoesMan (Jan 7, 2015)

You guys seem to be gurus on the 25-PDVC, so I'll pose these questions to you:

1) What size are the nut and lock washer that hold the hopper latch assembly together? One of mine fell apart (and I have no idea where they went, probably got fed through into the burn pot and vacuumed out by mistake). 

2) What can you guys tell me about adjusting the restrictor plate at the bottom of the hopper? Is it possible to open it too far? I'm on C mode and running at 9-9, I want to know how far I can push this thing without over-firing or doing too much permanent damage.


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## Jackfire (Jan 7, 2015)

It takes a 1/2 in wrench to adjust yur nut. And experimentation is how I've been rollin , sure u can overdue anything just proceed with caution  and 9 9 1  how open is yur plate. You've maxed , over firing will void yur warranty  I'd crank bac a notch or two  , just saying.  Be careful


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## Jackfire (Jan 7, 2015)

.      

Pics and video of the 25 ep I own


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## RingoesMan (Mar 5, 2015)

Okay guys. Here we are two months later and I encountered the same problem. Took the blower off this morning, pulled out a similar sized pile of hair and dust, put it back in, the noise went away. My wife just called me and it's back to being noisy as hell again. Is there anything else that could be wrong?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

Did you get all of it out?  This includes any that got into the motor shell.   Also if that blower takes oil it may be past time if it hasn't been tended in that area.  Not all blower motors have oil ports just tossing that out there if that one does,


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## RingoesMan (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Did you get all of it out?  This includes any that got into the motor shell.   Also if that blower takes oil it may be past time if it hasn't been tended in that area.  Not all blower motors have oil ports just tossing that out there if that one does,


I was pretty thorough, used a pair of tweezers to get the bulk of it, brushed the fins front and back with an old toothbrush, and took the shop-vac to it to clear it out. This is the new style blower with no ports for oil. Maybe the dirt isn't the problem and it's the mounting of the unit that's an issue?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

This was done to the windings on the motor and motors cooling fan as well as the squirrel cage?


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## RingoesMan (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> This was done to the windings on the motor and motors cooling fan as well as the squirrel cage?


???  Please explain like I'm 5...


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## SidecarFlip (Mar 5, 2015)

bbfarm said:


> Loved your photo of the cat.
> 
> Our blower after the season with 3 big hairy dogs
> View attachment 149181


 
That can be readily eliminated by placing a sheet of fine scotchbrite over the inlet.  That will catch the hair and you can remove it without pulling the blower and/or fit the inlet with an automotive air filter of suitable diameter.  You can buy K&N filters on their website by dimension btw.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

RingoesMan said:


> ???  Please explain like I'm 5...



Just making sure more than a few have done one part and not the other.


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## RingoesMan (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Just making sure more than a few have done one part and not the other.


Yeah, I think I only did the "squirrel cage" as you call it. The rest of the assembly didn't look that bad...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

I clean the entire unit and since mine can be oiled it gets oiled.  It has been running fine for several years.  My stove is exiting start-up as I finished cleaning it a few minutes ago.


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## RingoesMan (Mar 5, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I clean the entire unit and since mine can be oiled it gets oiled.  It has been running fine for several years.  My stove is exiting start-up as I finished cleaning it a few minutes ago.


So if we can rule out cleaning and oiling, what else could it be and how can I remedy it?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 5, 2015)

Mounting off in either direction or the blots not tightened on all corners or bad bearings.  

Adjusting the mounting and tightening the bolts, bearing replacement, motor replacement, entire bower assembly replacement.    

You should be able to handle it in one form or another.


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## mainequarter (Nov 24, 2015)

RingoesMan said:


> SSIA. First season with a pellet stove, and my unit has been in operation since the first week of October 2014. I am still figuring the thing out, but I have generally had no major problems. Until tonight. When I operate the room air blower on 8 or below, I have no issue. But when I crank it to 9, it makes an incessant high-pitched whining noise. I've had it on 9 for nights at a time with no problem, but now this noise can be heard from rooms away and is driving me (and the dog!) insane. Is it just a matter of cleaning or greasing something, or is this rooted deeper?


I have had a high pitch whining noise from BOTH squirrel  cage blowers from the very first day. it reminds me of being in a navy destroyer engine room. I called ENGLANDER and they sent me replacement motors.....ALL  FOUR W/ NEW GASKETS.....Same results...Englander said that's they way it is.   I am being told someone else makes exact replacement motors that are super quirt, but WHO ?????


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## Jackfire (Dec 4, 2015)

Had the same prob , they did the same ,  send another motor thing , What i did was retighten all nuts and screws then i losened nuts on bird cage enough to get some silicon under cage where it mounts to blower body , tighten nuts down and siliconed them also , The silicone acts as an anti vibration median reducing the harmonics that are created the motor / fan blades . Also when u remount blower to stove use some high temp sealer on yur bolts .


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## mainequarter (Dec 4, 2015)

Jackfire said:


> Had the same prob , they did the same ,  send another motor thing , What i did was retighten all nuts and screws then i losened nuts on bird cage enough to get some silicon under cage where it mounts to blower body , tighten nuts down and siliconed them also , The silicone acts as an anti vibration median reducing the harmonics that are created the motor / fan blades . Also when u remount blower to stove use some high temp sealer on yur bolts .


       I  BOUGHT SHEETS  OF HIGH TEMPERATURE RED SILICONE GASKETS AND TUBES OF RED HIGH TEMP SEALANT. I BOUGHT 4 NEW MOTOR WITH NEW SQUIRREL CAGE FANS, MADE PERFECT GASKETS, SILCONED THEM INTO PLACE, FINAL ANALYSIS~ MADE NO IMPROVEMENTS AT ALL.


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## Wessty (Dec 5, 2015)

Jackfire said:


> Just replaced my room air blower on my 25EP 4014 and at 6 it vibrates and at  9 it whines like a banchee  its the 2nd blower and I don't dare call and complain   Any ideas ?



Send it back and tell them you want one that is balanced properly.


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## mainequarter (Dec 5, 2015)

Wessty said:


> Send it back and tell them you want one that is balanced properly.


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## mainequarter (Dec 5, 2015)

*WELL, I REPLACED ALL 4 MOTORS TWICE,AND FINALLY WHEN I CALLED TECH / SERVICE, I SAID '''HERE, LISTEN FOR YOURSELF-THEN I PUT  THE PHONE UP TO THE INPUT AIR INTAKE'''  I GOT 4 NEW MOTORS AND GASKETS DELIVERED PRIORITY MAIL.........INSTALLED ALL 4 ...I AM GETTING REAL GOOD AT THIS BY NOW...AND HOW IS THE NOISE LEVEL NOW ??..........THE SAME , NO IMPROVEMENT...THESE ENGLANDLER BRAND STOVES ARE OBVIOUSLY  MADE TO BE USED IN A GARAGE SETTING, NOT A HOME.*


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## mainequarter (Dec 13, 2016)

mainequarter said:


> *WELL, I REPLACED ALL 4 MOTORS TWICE,AND FINALLY WHEN I CALLED TECH / SERVICE, I SAID '''HERE, LISTEN FOR YOURSELF-THEN I PUT  THE PHONE UP TO THE INPUT AIR INTAKE'''  I GOT 4 NEW MOTORS AND GASKETS DELIVERED PRIORITY MAIL.........INSTALLED ALL 4 ...I AM GETTING REAL GOOD AT THIS BY NOW...AND HOW IS THE NOISE LEVEL NOW ??..........THE SAME , NO IMPROVEMENT...THESE ENGLANDLER BRAND STOVES ARE OBVIOUSLY  MADE TO BE USED IN A GARAGE SETTING, NOT A HOME.*



UPDATE DECEMBER 13, 2016, WELL, ITS BEEN 13 MONTHS,  SERVICE CLEAN THIS STOVE BETTER THAN MY TRUCK,  WE HAVE COME TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE RECIEVING WHAT WE PAID FOR,A CHEAP, LOW QUALITY, LOW PRICE NOISY STOVE FROM LOWES.


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## jjones139 (Dec 14, 2016)

mainequarter said:


> UPDATE DECEMBER 13, 2016, WELL, ITS BEEN 13 MONTHS,  SERVICE CLEAN THIS STOVE BETTER THAN MY TRUCK,  WE HAVE COME TO REALIZE THAT WE ARE RECIEVING WHAT WE PAID FOR,A CHEAP, LOW QUALITY, LOW PRICE NOISY STOVE FROM LOWES.



So you ordered the blower from Lowe's not Englander? Englander discontinued using the noisy FASCO blower and replaced them with a quieter P-TECH. I know because mine went from the "working whine" to a nice smooth working quiet blower after replacing. I'm thinking that Lowe's probably still had the FASCO in their inventory. If true then return the blower to Lowe's and order the one direct from Englander. Just trying to help out... Good luck!


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## mainequarter (Dec 14, 2016)

jjones139 said:


> So you ordered the blower from Lowe's not Englander? Englander discontinued using the noisy FASCO blower and replaced them with a quieter P-TECH. I know because mine went from the "working whine" to a nice smooth working quiet blower after replacing. I'm thinking that Lowe's probably still had the FASCO in their inventory. If true then return the blower to Lowe's and order the one direct from Englander. Just trying to help out... Good luck!


=
hi, no, I got the last SET  of fan motors AND auger motors directly from Englander . .....they make such a high pitched squeal, our 3 cats hide in the closet and won't come out until the stove is stone cold.


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## jjones139 (Dec 14, 2016)

mainequarter said:


> =
> hi, no, I got the last SET  of fan motors AND auger motors directly from Englander . .....they make such a high pitched squeal, our 3 cats hide in the closet and won't come out until the stove is stone cold.


That's weird because the new P-Tech motors are quiet and I know because I have 2 running in my house. Are you sure they aren't Fasco's?? 

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## Lake Girl (Dec 14, 2016)

mainequarter said:


> =
> hi, no, I got the last SET  of fan motors AND auger motors directly from Englander . .....they make such a high pitched squeal, our 3 cats hide in the closet and won't come out until the stove is stone cold.


Is it possible the auger is squealing on carbon build-up near the burn pot in the auger flight?  That does create an unpleasant sound too...


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## mainequarter (Dec 14, 2016)

mainequarter said:


> =
> hi, no, I got the last SET  of fan motors AND auger motors directly from Englander . .....they make such a high pitched squeal, our 3 cats hide in the closet and won't come out until the stove is stone cold.


=====
no, I last replaced ALL motors in *NOVEMBER 2015*, they were replaced free of charge except shipping and handling, and they still squeal. I  have not received any of the newer ones [ P-TECH  ]  While I had the augers apart to replace their motors, I cleaned, and filed the carbon off, smoothed the ends...what do the new P=tech blower motors cost ?


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