# Tell me about Englander stoves? How good are they?



## Val

Let me be honest up front....I own a 2006 Harman at home and a 2004 Englander that I rarely use, but have it at a shacky cottage for heat. I bought the Englander at Home Depot on clearance several years back and now plan on "dumping" it at the boyfriends house so he can "get into pellet stoves" as opposed to using propane all the time. I am always amazed at how much finer the design (welds, heat control, having an ash pan) is on the Harman than the Englander, but also shocked because Harmans are triple/ almost quadruple the price of the Englander. The Englander also never seemed to regulate heat well and would flare up on high flame even on low setting and eats through pellets like mad. But still....the Englander puts out the heat for cheap investment. My question is how long do Englanders last in regular use? What goes wrong with them. I always see a bunch of them for sale used after they are about 5 years old. I am not knocking down Englanders product, as I own one (the price for them is awesome) but never used it much. The cottage is very small and the Englander literally cooked me out with the irratic heat output. I know there must be Englander fans out there as well as Englander haters. Please tell me about these stoves.


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## kinsmanstoves

This is a good topic and I will be in here lurking.  I have numerous customers that have gone from Englanders to Harmans but none that I know of did the reverse.  Very good post.

Eric


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## DexterDay

Some stoves are better than others... Whether its through there heat output or efficiency. Or general fuel consumption

Some stives burn pellets better than others (crappy pellets). Some create gobs of heat through small amounts of fuel.

I own 3 Englanders. A woodstove (30-NC) and 2 pellet stoves (17 yr old PDV and a new 10-CPM). They both work as advertised. And I actually think the old one has a better heat output. It has tube type heat exchangers and a thick firebox like a woodstove. Where the CPM can burn for weeks at a time.

I also own a Quad. Its output is superior to all of them. But it lacks in function. Only on/off operation. But is a Serious heater! !! 

If I could meld the burnpot and control board of the CPM, the thick steel firebox of the old PDV, and then looks and output of the Classic Bay!  That would be the Ultimate Stove. IMO

They all have there place. . . PM sent.


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## smwilliamson

I'm a big fan of Englander. Low cost and fairly simple designs. They do not like increased EVL installations, the auger motors (especially the lower one) wear out very prematurely...but there is a fix for that. I usually replace the vac hoses with silicon and keep the pivot bearings well greased...they'll last forever. Swap out the combustion motor for a Jakel (Harman or Enviro) and you have a very reliable and trustly machine that is rather quiet by comparison to say...Lennox, Napoleon or Breckwell.


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## imacman

I traded my Avalon Astoria for an Englander Multi-Fuel unit 3 years ago.  Not because there was anything wrong w/ the Astoria....but Englanders customer support is vastly superior to any other out there, plus I wanted multi-fuel capability.

Nothing wrong with a Harman if you can afford it, but for the price, you CANNOT go wrong with the Englander (and there are MANY, MANY posts here from members who have Harman problems).  

If you give Englander customer service a call, and explain the model, serial #, stove exhaust set-up, control panel settings, I'm very sure they can solve the high pellet consumption issue.


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## MCPO

Ive got an Englander in the workshop and a Harman in the house.
 So far, my 3 yr old Englander has been very reliable and works exactly as advertised.
I had to replace the auger in my Harman this year and I think it`s gonna need a new combustion motor too. That`s after about approx 16 tons of pellets thru it in it`s lifetime.
 Harman`s are very good stoves and cost 2-3 times as much as an Englander but they aren`t twice as good . And they don`t talk to customers either , especially after the sale. You`re at the mercy of your local dealer, IF you have one in the area.
 The service staff at Englanders will talk to you and help you  even if you bought the stove second hand.
 I`d have no problem considering another Englander.


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## BrotherBart

Yeah I am considered an Englander cheerleader but I saw a lot of threads before I bought the 25-PDVC. It is an occasional heater in the basement when I need to be there. And does a great job. I do agree that it eats more pellets in a low burn than it should. Most of my experience though is with their wood stoves.

But as to the remark about welds. Ya gotta show me beads better than that bunch down in Monroe lays down. You can't do it. I have seen a whole lot of Harman stoves, welds and all. Wouldn't own one on a bet (see the above comment about support) but they make a really nice stove. Wood or pellet.


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## Don2222

Hello Val

Well, I have been rebuilding stoves for a while now and the stove I got before this Enviro Meridan to rebuild was an Englander 25-PDV. It was great getting one with an E-2 error so I could really go thru it and see what all the hoopla was about them and what people complained about. Well, it is a very solid stove and the E2 error was caused because someone disconnected the vacuum switch and when they connected it back they had no idea and just plugged the wires and hose on the wrong ports! ! lol
When I tested it, I found the older non sealed bearing auger motors wore down and needed replacement. New auger motors have sealed bearing now and last longer and work better. However in this case where both augers are made out of cast iron, the top auger never had the knit line polished down and snagged on that one spot when I turned it manually! ! So I just ground it down on my bench grinder and put in 2 brand new auger motors and greased the auger bearing and the stove works better than it ever did before! Also if you do not clean the build up of carbon in the bottom auger chute, that can wear out the auger motor too.* Having a dirty bottom auger chute may also cause your uneven up and down heat level! ! ! LOL*

Any way they are really rugged and mean heat machines that if cleaned and taken care of properly will last almost forever! The only draw back I see on the 25-PDV and smaller 25-PDVC is that they do not cycle on and off with a T-Stat. The 25-EP and 10-CPM do cycle on and off and do the Hi/Lo so those might be my ideal choices in the Englander line. I just feel having a T-Stat is important to regulate the heat and save on pellets but not everyone uses a T-Stat. It depends on the way you use it. Just my 2 cents.

However if you want a super gorgeous good stove and a real nice price, I do have that Enviro for sale.
See > > https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...00-btu-wood-pellet-stove-1595-salem-nh.86617/


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## smoke show

I own two stoves from both price points.

You get what you pay for.

Listen to Dexter.


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## Crane Stoves

Master Chief PO said:


> Ive got an Englander in the workshop and a Harman in the house.
> So far, my 3 yr old Englander has been very reliable and works exactly as advertised.
> I had to replace the auger in my Harman this year and I think it`s gonna need a new combustion motor too. That`s after about approx 16 tons of pellets thru it in it`s lifetime.
> Harman`s are very good stoves and cost 2-3 times as much as an Englander but they aren`t twice as good . And they don`t talk to customers either , especially after the sale. You`re at the mercy of your local dealer, IF you have one in the area.
> The service staff at Englanders will talk to you and help you even if you bought the stove second hand.
> I`d have no problem considering another Englander.


 
Ive found Harman customer service to be horrible (even before a sale to try and have questions answered or simply to locate a dealer), It seems that Harman does NOT want to make it easy for consumers to have easy access to their products because the closest dealer i can find is an hour away from me (Im lucky enough to know people closer who let me come see and test these wonderful stoves). I like Harman stoves but i personally do NOT like the company, they seem to not want anything to do with the consumer and lay everything at the feet of the dealer (who is more then likely a day ride away from you into the bowels of some obscure foreign town to you!)

I have no experience with Englander so i wont say anything about that.


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## h2ochild

My experience with 25pvdc's
Cons:Hopper doesn't quite hold 40 lbs.  Hopper needs foil tape and waxing to facilitate complete pellet feed to upper auger,(Thanks to the good folks here for that tip!). Glass airwash doesn't work well. After donating too much AB negative while chiseling the lower auger tube with a screwdriver to remove carbon build up, I ground the 90 degree(sharp!) edges of the burnpot top, rounder.This model requires maintenance,some daily.They will not operate well without it. I don't mind doing it, it's part of any solid fuel heating.They are very Spartan in appearance (but I like that). 
Pros:You can tweak 'em and get better efficiencies. They heat decently.They have excellent customer service. Englander manuals are detailed, and free videos abound on maintenance and repair. Many parts can now be bought at local Home Depots.I've not had a single part fail, with one unit in nearly(shutdown for cleaning only) 'round the clock use for 4 month stretches,having burned nearly 10 tons since purchase.Used models in this area, seem to hold their value.New stoves can be had for far less than other brands.They are a very DIY friendly appliance. I think they are a very good value for the money.If I "trade up" it will be to the 10 CPM, or one of the new models yet to be seen.


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## ldutton6

I have the large 2500 sqft englander and I have now realized why it shuts off, what can cause issues and that it is actually very simple and a great pellet stove.   The small metal vacuum tubes in the back have rubber hoses that connect from the exahust to the honeywell heat sensors.  They crack and will cause an E code. Replace those and your good.  Another strange thing that happened today was I moved the burn pot around and the stove shut down with an E code again.  That is due to the spike in a large flame causing high heat.  So, as I sat there wondering if this thing is a POS or actually a good stove I realized this is what its supposed to do.  If you crank the temp up with the auger speed your fine.  But, any spike in temp will shut it down.  It does eat pellets but also puts lots of heat out and if I use four tons in one winter its still cheap.


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## ghandy131

Don't know which Englander you're referring to (they make several models).  We installed a 10-CPM 3 years ago to supplement our propane forced air systems (5200 sq ft colonial, built 2004, only heat 4000 now that kids have flown the coup).  Love it, love it, love it.  Saves about $2500/year. Of course we use the cental heat when needed, but has driven the heat cost from $5200/year to +-$2500, including pellets.  The stove is built like a tank. It'll burn anything, minimal cleaning, real good heat.  Maybe next year, in my fourth year I'll have a complaint but not yet.


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## ldutton6

I have the 25 pdv 2500 sqft stove. The one you can buy at homedepot. The rating is 2500,sqft at 50000 BTUs.


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## ChandlerR

Val said:


> What goes wrong with them. I always see a bunch of them for sale used after they are about 5 years old.


I think the reason you see so many Englanders for sale on Craigslist is what I call the Pet Store Syndrome. (Buy something on impulse without knowing what you're buying, then get rid of it when things go bad)   See the stove in Home Depot, by stove on impulse because the price is so cheap without and knowledge on how to operate and maintain it...Run it for a few years, getting more frustrated by the year. (Piece of junk...never worked well...always breaks down when you need it)  Finally sell it on Craigslist to get some of your money back telling people how good it is and how sad you are to sell it.


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## ldutton6

Exactly. There simple. Drop pellets, suck air, ignite and exhaust but with that is dry bearings clogged pipes ect... When things go wrong they sell it.


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## fmsm

I had an Englander insert and replaced it after 2 years with a Harman. Englander's customer service is great, the stove did require a daily vac of the burnpot where my Harman can keep (and is currently) run for days without opening the door. In 2 years I also replaced the igniter twice and a blower motor once although in fairness my new Harman P35i that I bought in November came out of the crate with a squeaky combustion blower that was replaced immediately. 

I switched because I wanted a little less hands on maintenance, once a week as opposed to once a day. I also wanted a rail system.

They are both good products but I agree with others, you do get what you pay for, the only question is are you like me and are willing to pay substantially more for a product that may or may not be worth the entire difference in price? The lower maintenance is worth it for me.

I would like to add that I was able to speak with a Harman engineer when I had a question on set back thermostats a few years back. You just need to dig up the right number.


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## iceguy4

Val said:


> Harmans are triple/ almost quadruple the price of the Englander



quality isn't cheap .  I wonder  if the $$ difference up front is made up with lower cost pellets over its lifetime


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## Jason Knapp

I love my 25 EP. With the help of Englander excellent customer service, the members of this forum and my own inability to leave things alone, this stove runs like a champ.
I bought it used from a guy who was "sorry to see it go"
Yeah right. It wasn't vented properly at his house and was filthy! His loss, my gain!


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## Pete Zahria

ChandlerR said:


> I think the reason you see so many Englanders for sale on Craigslist.


 
Currently on our local CL, there are 15 Harmans for sale, and 4 Englanders.
Not that it means anything. Just sayin.

I have a Harman coal stove, which heats the house, and an Englander pellet
that I just bought for my garage/shop.

Harman makes a pretty nice product. But a lot of money.
Hand fed coal stoves are Superman..
but good luck with trying to get answers.
I recently helped install a stoker for someone, (over 3 grand stove)
and it would not run properly, making the stove useless. Right before a cold snap.
The dealer said he could get someone out to look at it in 3 or 4 weeks.
Really? Customer service... brand spanking new high dollar Cadillac stove,
that doesn't work... and you can't get a guy out there for 4 weeks, possibly?
Good night Irene...
We ended up finding the problem ourselves.
From the factory, they had installed the combustion and room blowers
backwards. 10 second fix AFTER spending time diagnosing..

The first day with the pellet stove, I did not have a problem,
but had a question. It took a while to get through, but my question
was answered, and the man was more than happy to answer any more questions
while I was on the line...

I understand that it is possible I will have an issue with my little stove.
But I am trying to not do, what people who have had problems here,
and hoping these issues will be minimal..

Dan


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## xavblk

I have a 10-CPM for 3 years now and love it, installed it on the top floor of my 2 story home. It keeps the entire floor at an average of 70 degrees during 0 degree type weather. An owner of a pellet stove has to be prepared to do either one of 2 things - either be prepared to call a technician and spend serious money to fix a mechanical breakdown every time that occurs OR be prepared to be hands on and learn/fix the issues. I chose the latter and it is not only personally gratifying but financially easy on the pockets. Englander also includes a maintenance DVD with the purchase of a 10-CPM Multi-fuel, not sure if they do that for the other models. Love the stove and will never be without one.


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## pelletizer

I like my 25 pdvc but the only issue I have is the cheap Fasco motors used with sealed bearings that cannot be oiled.
Sorry everyone you can bash me all you want but tough if you don't like what I say.
Having my stove now for 5 burning seasons and knowing it well and only at 2 to 3 tons burned per year and having *gone though 4 Convection motors *and now the *3rd Exhaust motor is on its way out due to the crappy sealed bearings  *(its obvious when you start the stove and your kids asks "what is that grinding sound")  
I have had 3 of motors replaced by Englander for free 2 under warranty and one due to me pushing, but the bottom line is if one has to replace 7 motors @ about $160.00 each over the next 5 seasons its $800.00 and I don't think that is right and with the Fasco sealed bearing motors track record its a sure bet they will fail.
Motors are junk and a sealed bearing alternative should be offered.


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## slvrblkk

This works great on the combustion side (you just use the motor itself), it bolts right up but it is a sleeve bearing so longevity might be an issue but it's been working great all season in my stove. It also bolts right up on the convection side but haven't tried it yet. At that price, how can you complain!

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...M-115-VAC-McMILLAN-BLOWER-2051762-16-1436.axd


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## tjnamtiw

kinsmanstoves said:


> This is a good topic and I will be in here lurking.  I have numerous customers that have gone from Englanders to Harmans but none that I know of did the reverse.  Very good post.
> 
> Eric


I guess if customers have been willing and ABLE to spend the money for a Harman, they would feel that they were lowering their ''standards" by then buying a cheaper stove.  Not saying Harman isn't a good stove because it probably is but there are a lot of happy Englander brand stove owners.  Perhaps it takes a learning curve to run them properly but heaven knows that there is plenty of support if they just ask AND have some mechanical aptitude. Without the latter, they have no business buying ANY pellet stove, as we have discussed ad nauseum.


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## tjnamtiw

slvrblkk said:


> This works great on the combustion side (you just use the motor itself), it bolts right up but it is a sleeve bearing so longevity might be an issue but it's been working great all season in my stove. It also bolts right up on the convection side but haven't tried it yet. At that price, who can you complain!
> 
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...M-115-VAC-McMILLAN-BLOWER-2051762-16-1436.axd


Oil those sleeve bearings with a moly lube and they will last.


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## iceguy4

Pete Zahria said:


> Currently on our local CL, there are 15 Harmans for sale, and 4 Englanders.
> Not that it means anything. Just sayin.



IMHO the reason for harmans being prevalent on craigs list is a testament to their value used...lesser stoves would not be as "saleable" due to their lower residual value....


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## slvrblkk

tjnamtiw said:


> Oil those sleeve bearings with a moly lube and they will last.



I actually have a 20w motor lube for it.


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## iceguy4

slvrblkk said:


> I actually have a 20w motor lube for it.


  The moly will most likely perform better...Tiny balls work like bearings


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## jjones139

While many are talking about the motor issues let me tell you mine. On my Englander 25-PDV my combustion blower screeches like holy hell for about 2-3 minutes then goes back to normal for 10-15 mins and then starts all over again. Any remedy besides replacing the unit? I've tried lube already, which did nothing. Any help would be great.....The manufacture date on my stove is 7/2013 and I installed it on 12/5/2013. Even though it was brand new in the package, I did buy it 2nd hand which appears to void the manufacturer warranty. I've emailed Englander and tried calling several times only to be put on hold in excess of 15 minutes each time. I'm still using the stove because other than the combustion blower it kicks ass  Thanks,

John


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## slvrblkk

Did the first owner register the stove? If not, register it on the Englander site:  http://www.englanderstoves.com/warranty/warranty.html  Give them a call or send an email about your problem....might be covered yet.


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## jjones139

I did register it today and Englander sent me a confirmation email that it was accepted. I was just looking for a quick fix, but after going thru this site I see that many owners have complained about the same issue. Thanks for your reply


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## Harvey Schneider

jjones139 said:


> While many are talking about the motor issues let me tell you mine. On my Englander 25-PDV my combustion blower screeches like holy hell for about 2-3 minutes then goes back to normal for 10-15 mins and then starts all over again. Any remedy besides replacing the unit? I've tried lube already, which did nothing. Any help would be great.....The manufacture date on my stove is 7/2013 and I installed it on 12/5/2013. Even though it was brand new in the package, I did buy it 2nd hand which appears to void the manufacturer warranty. I've emailed Englander and tried calling several times only to be put on hold in excess of 15 minutes each time. I'm still using the stove because other than the combustion blower it kicks ass  Thanks,
> 
> John


The bearings are worn out. There is no long term fix other than replacement.


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## tjnamtiw

iceguy4 said:


> IMHO the reason for harmans being prevalent on craigs list is a testament to their value used...lesser stoves would not be as "saleable" due to their lower residual value....


Can't say that I subscribe to that one when I see some of the sheeet on Craigslist.  No one seems too proud to list ANYTHING! When  I see a rusted Whitfield for $700 I just shake my head!


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## iceguy4

tjnamtiw said:


> I see some of the sheeet on Craigslist


 We have "high class" #@^% up here LOL


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## jjones139

Harvey Schneider said:


> The bearings are worn out. There is no long term fix other than replacement.



Well I can't say that I'm shocked hearing this! I'm just annoyed that a product that has only been inservice for 52 days has already crapped out! I'm hoping now that someone in customer service will answer my email. If not then I will resort back to waiting forever on the telephone. Thanks for your reply


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## N.E S4

I bought my 2004 25-PDVC used in the fall of 2012. It had a defective vacuum switch once replaced it runs like a charm. Lower auger motor went a couple weeks later, got a replacement on ebay for $50.00. 2 months after the installation I've decided to replace all of the auger motor, combustion motor, and blower motor  just to be safe. I'm currently running it for 2 seasons now 24/7, shut it off once a week for 2 hours to clean.

The only thing I don't like about it is that you have to clean the burn pot twice every 24 hours.

I have a Harman P35i, love the convenient of just dumping the ash pan once a week. 

If you don't mind cleaning all the time the 25 PDVC is well worth the money. I'm going to get another Harman just for the convenience.


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## Jigger

I bought my Englander 25-pdvc stove 5 years ago second hand.I did see how the PO had it set up. They had the stove set up in the middle of thier cellar. With three 90's to make it to the outside wall. Through the wall to yet another 90 with no clean out to a 3 inch metal chimney up 15 feet. They were selling it because after the first month it started to smoke back. Kind of makes you wonder. Any way In the time I've had it. I've never had any real problem with it. It puts out enough heat to heat my home. I burn around 3 ton a year which seems pretty good seeing it never gets shut down except for a weekly cleaning. The only problem I had was the combustion blower bearing went out on it. Other then that it is all oringinal.


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## Indiana

I Have A 10- CPM Multi fuel. Heats my whole home. The only issues I have had have been all operator error.


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## jjones139

After my 4th attempt at calling Englander customer service I finally got thru. They are sending me a new combustion blower under warranty. The hardest part of this was getting thru to CS after that it was painless. Russell, CS at Englander was fantastic to deal with and also have me a few other pointers, thank you


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## iceguy4

jjones139 said:


> also have me a few other pointers


 care to share?


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## jjones139

iceguy4 said:


> care to share?



Absolutely He said the 2 items that wear out prematurely are the combustion blower and the lower auger motor. Combustion blower can be prolonged by using a very good quality electrical lube. The lower and upper augers are identical and should be switched out. He recommended monthly as he does his, but not everyone has that amount of time so whenever possible. The lower auger never ceases while the top stops and goes as needed. Last, it is imperative to clean the lower auger area where it meets the burn plate to rid the excess soot that builds up because this will cause a substantial strain on the lower auger motor due to restriction.


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## AddictiveStew

I hate to be the only Englander person here who is negative, but you get what you pay for. I've had nothing but problems with mine since I purchased it and I've been doing all kinds of things trying to get it to work right. I think after so long I've finally got the "magic" combination of things to get it working right. The entire unit arrived with leaky door seals, ash pan seals, and the hopper lid was severely bent. Not to mention a warped burn pot. I've worked with Mike and Englander on some issues and stopped receiving responses. I've since worked some things out myself and have a better burn (thanks to some members here). I'm looking to get a Harman in the near future as I would prefer less maintenance (once a week vs 1-2x a day) and hopefully less screwing around trying to get it to work!


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## jjones139

AddictiveStew said:


> I hate to be the only Englander person here who is negative, but you get what you pay for. I've had nothing but problems with mine since I purchased it and I've been doing all kinds of things trying to get it to work right. I think after so long I've finally got the "magic" combination of things to get it working right. The entire unit arrived with leaky door seals, ash pan seals, and the hopper lid was severely bent. Not to mention a warped burn pot. I've worked with Mike and Englander on some issues and stopped receiving responses. I've since worked some things out myself and have a better burn (thanks to some members here). I'm looking to get a Harman in the near future as I would prefer less maintenance (once a week vs 1-2x a day) and hopefully less screwing around trying to get it to work!



I totally understand! I'm new to the pellet stove world and I'm just trying to stay afloat. So far my only complaint is that the combustion blower only lasted 52 days I'm well within my warranty so sending me a new blower was a definite. I'm just trying to learn what I can, especially from all of the members on the site! Sharing across this platform has been a lifesaver to many, especially when units go out of warranty


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## AddictiveStew

jjones139 said:


> I totally understand! I'm new to the pellet stove world and I'm just trying to stay afloat. So far my only complaint is that the combustion blower only lasted 52 days I'm well within my warranty so sending me a new blower was a definite. I'm just trying to learn what I can, especially from all of the members on the site! Sharing across this platform has been a lifesaver to many, especially when units go out of warranty


That's right! This site is a god send. But considering I go out of town on business occasionally, and I'm working full time and going to school full time, just opening the door and giving the burn pot a quick scrape (Harman) would be amazing (READ: Easier for the wife to maintain while I'm gone, she runs the dino juice machine!)   I did know what I was getting into though. Hoping we get a good tax return for an upgrade this year. Then I might make the Englander my basement dweller.


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## iceguy4

jjones139 said:


> Absolutely He said the 2 items that wear out prematurely are the combustion blower and the lower auger motor. Combustion blower can be prolonged by using a very good quality electrical lube. The lower and upper augers are identical and should be switched out. He recommended monthly as he does his, but not everyone has that amount of time so whenever possible. The lower auger never ceases while the top stops and goes as needed. Last, it is imperative to clean the lower auger area where it meets the burn plate to rid the excess soot that builds up because this will cause a substantial strain on the lower auger motor due to restriction.


  This info should be in a "sticky" at the top of the pellet forum since so many members have these stoves!   thanks for sharing!


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## Scott M

On my second season with the Englander. 5 tons have gone through it. Vacuum hose to the exhaust blower failed recently. Easy fix. I recommend the Englander to people who are not afraid to open the back of something when it breaks. Its a pretty simple system so when it needs to be fixed there is plenty of parts and support out there to get it back up and running. Sure I wish it controlled the temp a little better but I didn't feel like spending an extra 2000 bucks to have that.


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## jjones139

Scott M said:


> On my second season with the Englander. 5 tons have gone through it. Vacuum hose to the exhaust blower failed recently. Easy fix. I recommend the Englander to people who are not afraid to open the back of something when it breaks. Its a pretty simple system so when it needs to be fixed there is plenty of parts and support out there to get it back up and running. Sure I wish it controlled the temp a little better but I didn't feel like spending an extra 2000 bucks to have that.



It is simple to use and repair. I'm with you on saving that extra $2k!!


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## Harvey Schneider

Scott M said:


> Sure I wish it controlled the temp a little better but I didn't feel like spending an extra 2000 bucks to have that.


I run my PDVC with an old digital setback thermostat. The hookup is easy and it regulates temperature quite well as long as there is something to stir it air in the room. Mine is a basement dweller and I have a box fan suspended from the joists blowing the length of the basement.
You don''t need a stove with integrated thermostat functions to regulate temperature well.



jjones139 said:


> It is simple to use and repair.


The ESW stoves are like the VW Bug of the 60's. They take a lot of tinkering and tuning to get them just so, but they are simple enough that the average Joe can do it.


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## Seasoned Oak

I own both a harman and an englander wood stoves. Both are good stoves and customer service dont mean squat to me as i do my own customer service. I use both stoves but the englander heat output is much more variable than the harman and lower overall BTU output. ITs hard to compare the 2 as there is so much difference in price.


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## Scott M

Harvey Schneider said:


> I run my PDVC with an old digital setback thermostat. The hookup is easy and it regulates temperature quite well as long as there is something to stir it air in the room. Mine is a basement dweller and I have a box fan suspended from the joists blowing the length of the basement.
> You don''t need a stove with integrated thermostat functions to regulate temperature well.
> 
> 
> My problem is that my house is too small. I run it as low as I can without the fire going out. My understanding is that the stove stays at the lowest setting when the thermostat isn't calling for heat.


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## stoveguy2esw

what are you getting for a bag of fuel (hours)  about as low as it can be dialed back is 1.6 lbs (roughly) an hour any lower and it risks starving out between doses of fuel.

if you are less than 24 hours on low I may can help you with that but it requires some "fiddling" with the controls.


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## Harvey Schneider

Scott M said:


> My problem is that my house is too small. I run it as low as I can without the fire going out. My understanding is that the stove stays at the lowest setting when the thermostat isn't calling for heat.


You would be better off with a stove that does on/off operation as opposed to high/low operation.


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## stoveguy2esw

youre probably right Harvey, an on off capable unit would be easier on him for a small house


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## Jason Knapp

AddictiveStew said:


> That's right! This site is a god send. But considering I go out of town on business occasionally, and I'm working full time and going to school full time, just opening the door and giving the burn pot a quick scrape (Harman) would be amazing (READ: Easier for the wife to maintain while I'm gone, she runs the dino juice machine!)   I did know what I was getting into though. Hoping we get a good tax return for an upgrade this year. Then I might make the Englander my basement dweller.



In some ways I understand your frustration. I went through it too. Now my 25 ep runs flawlessly. I dont touch it for 5 to 7 days, and it runs non stop in between cleanings. Harmans are no doubt a great stove, as are most of the products that hearth and home technologies offers. I didnt have the money for a top of the line stove, and I enjoy tinkering anyway, so the Englander was a no brainer for me. Personally, I think Englander makes a good product, but in the end everyone has to do what makes them comfortable.


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## pelletizer

jjones139 said:


> Absolutely He said the 2 items that wear out prematurely are the combustion blower and the lower auger motor. Combustion blower can be prolonged by using a very good quality electrical lube. The lower and upper augers are identical and should be switched out. He recommended monthly as he does his, but not everyone has that amount of time so whenever possible. The lower auger never ceases while the top stops and goes as needed. Last, it is imperative to clean the lower auger area where it meets the burn plate to rid the excess soot that builds up because this will cause a substantial strain on the lower auger motor due to restriction.




As I said I like my 25 pdvc it heats my house great and I have no issues not having an ash pan. 
But the only issue I have is the cheap Fasco motors used with sealed bearings that cannot be oiled. 
Mike has helped me as well and no issues with him even sent him a video once to hear the noise, but (2 items that wear out prematurely appear to be known by Englander) and I think folks would pay the extra money for a motor with bearings that cold be oiled like the Fasco motor in my Field Controls power vent which has 8 seasons on it with yearly lubes and no issues,
Heck even the old Field Controls unit vent motor removed back in 2006 was fine and it was the mounting area rotted which ended the use of it.
I can tell you right now the noisy current combustion motor was only installed but a year ago and maybe has 2.5 tons if that run through it.
I found one way to cut down on noise at night while sleeping is to put a clothes rack about 5 ft away to dry wet clothing
It dries the clothing and puts moisture in the house and muffles the bearing noise nicely, LOL


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## Harvey Schneider

pelletizer said:


> and I think folks would pay the extra money for a motor with bearings that cold be oiled


A big part of the problem is that consumers (us) demand the lowest price for the products they buy. Design Engineers are faced with making trade-offs to meet design to cost requirements. 
Would people pay the extra cost for better bearings? Some would, many wouldn't.


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## AddictiveStew

Jason Knapp said:


> In some ways I understand your frustration. I went through it too. Now my 25 ep runs flawlessly. I dont touch it for 5 to 7 days, and it runs non stop in between cleanings. Harmans are no doubt a great stove, as are most of the products that hearth and home technologies offers. I didnt have the money for a top of the line stove, and I enjoy tinkering anyway, so the Englander was a no brainer for me. Personally, I think Englander makes a good product, but in the end everyone has to do what makes them comfortable.


I'm not knocking the product *too* much, I just wish it would have worked out of the box and then I could fix issues later down the road. It seems like a crapshoot each time I start it up whether or not i'm going to get the same experience that I did the previous time.


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## pelletizer

Sadly combustion motor is now to noisy to run and as a safety issue do not trust it to run while not in the house.
Gotta love it as things fail at the best time, LOL ( Have company due here soon and what will I be doing when they get here? ( Installing the prior motor that was failing but not yet failed that I saved as a back up for such a situation) oh well.
.


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## pelletizer

Holy bad bearings we now be on oil ! glad its getting warmer this weekend.


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## Harvey Schneider

pelletizer said:


> Sadly combustion motor is now to noisy to run


I don't recall you describing the noise that the combustion blower is making.
When the the motor is rattling rather than squealing it may be the motor end plate rather than the bearings that needs attention. The end plates loosen with time and vibration. They are usually held in place by three or four indents in the cylindrical part of the motor housing. Setting them again with a gentle tap of a nail set and hammer restores quiet operation


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## pelletizer

Very good observation very good indeed Harvey Schneider, but I know of that from experience.
Definitely the outer bearing on the combustion motor. 
Started a couple weeks ago ever so slight and progressively got worse.
all I can describe it as is like a small stone grinder with a super fine grit and grinding a metal bar with real light pressure.
take care.


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## pelletizer

I have now replaced both my Convection and Combustion Cheap Englander / Fasco Sleeve (replace once a season or season and a half ) with and industrial new ball bearing (lube-able)  (NEW) motors for a total cost of $85.00 including shipping. 

Cheap sleeve bearings once toast cannot be lubed........


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## Harvey Schneider

pelletizer said:


> I have now replaced both my Convection and Combustion Cheap Englander / Fasco Sleeve (replace once a season or season and a half ) with and industrial new ball bearing (lube-able)  (NEW) motors for a total cost of $85.00 including shipping.
> 
> Cheap sleeve bearings once toast cannot be lubed........


Mind telling us where you got them?


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## pelletizer

Maybe after I buy some more.. LOL

Hang on let me get the info.....


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## wolfie770

Scott M said:


> On my second season with the Englander. 5 tons have gone through it. Vacuum hose to the exhaust blower failed recently. Easy fix. I recommend the Englander to people who are not afraid to open the back of something when it breaks. Its a pretty simple system so when it needs to be fixed there is plenty of parts and support out there to get it back up and running. Sure I wish it controlled the temp a little better but I didn't feel like spending an extra 2000 bucks to have that.


A $20 thermostat keeps ours within 2 degrees of the set temp.  Love the Englander.  Heats the whole house, no fuel used at all this year.


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## wolfie770

Harvey Schneider said:


> You would be better off with a stove that does on/off operation as opposed to high/low operation.[/quoStove is too big for the house.  On/off setting will burn out your igniter pretty quickly.


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## tjnamtiw

ChandlerR said:


> I think the reason you see so many Englanders for sale on Craigslist is what I call the Pet Store Syndrome. (Buy something on impulse without knowing what you're buying, then get rid of it when things go bad)   See the stove in Home Depot, by stove on impulse because the price is so cheap without and knowledge on how to operate and maintain it...Run it for a few years, getting more frustrated by the year. (Piece of junk...never worked well...always breaks down when you need it)  Finally sell it on Craigslist to get some of your money back telling people how good it is and how sad you are to sell it.


This is a great answer to the comment about Englanders for sale on craigslist!  So MANY people get sold a pellet stove and never told about the absolutely REQUIRED maintenance and possibility of troubleshooting or calling the dealer.  Many of those people have no business buying a pellet stove, period, IMHO.  If you aren't either rich enough to keep a service man on retainer or have any mechanical/electrical aptitude then you should not buy a pellet stove.  I think the OP made a good decision to investigate ahead of time and get all these comments.  I hope he takes them to heart.  I see a lot more posts about Harman problems than Englander problems on here, for sure.  
For me, my Quads do the job (knock on wood) but I expect to replace parts from time to time as with anything that has fire in it, electrical systems, and mechanical systems.  I knew that up front.


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## tjnamtiw

Not true, wolfie, about burning out igniters.  You'll find many people here (me included) who have stoves with original igniters after many years.  AND they are not that expensive and easy to replace, when they finally do die.


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## MCPO

I think the biggest reason why Englander stoves are so often found on Craigslist is the complexity of the operating control.  Few owners outside of some on this forum ever know what the bottom 3 buttons do and why they are there.  And even fewer know how to do a reset or how to get it out of the wrong mode.
I`ve harped on this before and it falls on deaf ears . Why do they continue to keep the push button functions such a big secret?  Since their stoves are marketed towards the " do it yourselfer "  a few additional pages in the instruction booklet could easily explain in detail exactly what the buttons do , the reset and mode change procedure along with the sequence of operation with regards to the top and bottom augers .
It would cost next to nothing and help to retain loyal customers while reducing their phone service load .Maybe they would then reconsider Craigslisting it for something else.
Englander makes a very good stove for the money but the push pad control is definitely confusing especially to those without a mechanical mind . Add to this their users manual really lacks in content.


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## slls

I didn't want a panel that looked like a NASA shuttle, so I bought this.


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## Harvey Schneider

wolfie770 said:


> A $20 thermostat keeps ours within 2 degrees of the set temp. Love the Englander. Heats the whole house, no fuel used at all this year.


Every home is different, different levels of insulation, different size, different air infiltration. What works in one home will not necessarily work in another.
If a stove owner only has the choice of high/low and even on low, still feels overwhelmed by the stove output, your thermostat won't help. If the stove is undersized for the home and the recovery time is too long, a thermostat won't help.


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## pelletizer

tjnamtiw said:


> Not true, wolfie, about burning out igniters.  You'll find many people here (me included) who have stoves with original igniters after many years.  AND they are not that expensive and easy to replace, when they finally do die.



I still have my original ignition thingy works like a "charm glow"...  Get it LOL
yes bad bad comment I know, but it does still work.


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## Indiana

I am finishing my 5th season with my 10-cpm.  As with any pellet stove,  I do my weekly and monthly maintenance.  This year I have done very little maintenance.  This summer I will do a full break down of my CPM and replace all gaskets and motors. Why? Those motors run 24/7. There can't be much life left in them. I'll just save them as backup replacement parts.  The amount of money my CPM has saved has been staggering to say the least. I'm even toying with the idea of buying another one. Putting the 5 year old in the basement and the new one back in the living room. Are there better stoves out there? That depends on what you factor into the cost of the stove and service calls. No one will dispute the impeccable tech support from englander. I for one am sold on the company and product.


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## Seasoned Oak

Indiana said:


> I am finishing my 5th season with my 10-cpm. This summer I will do a full break down of my CPM and replace all gaskets and motors. Why? Those motors run 24/7. There can't be much life left in them. I'll just save them as backup replacement parts.  .


I did something similar. After 5 years i bought a new replacement blower fan for my boiler thinking the constant starting and stopping ,it could not go much longer. 7 years later the new one is still on the shelf waiting for the 12 year old one to die. Still feels good to know im ready when it does.


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## Dr.Faustus

I bought my pdvc in 2006 and it's been my sole source of heat since the day it arrived. Maintenance (as in broken parts) has been super minimal and nothing has broken that has caused actual downtime. I had a bad auger bearing a few years into it, but it was able to run until the new part arrived via regular shipping. Its running right now with all of its original parts except routine maintenance stuff, like gaskets and vac hoses. those are new and they come in the maintenance kit which i get either yearly or every other year depending on funds and condition of it.

Biggest complaints? No burn pot stirrer or ash drawer. I live with it and while i never had a stove with ash drawers, im assuming it would make life a lot easier and prevent backpiling of the pellets in the burn pot. The other complaint is very small hopper, which i've remedied with a hopper extension (not endorsed by englander) but i've been running the hopper extension since 08 with no problems. I made sure it was thick metal and just as airtight as the original. That also solved the problem where pellets stick to the walls of the hopper. simply doesnt happen anymore.

Customer service is top notch and website ordering is extremely easy and helpful. I wouldnt buy another PDVC but i would buy another englander, particularly their multifuel units with ash drawers and burn pot stirrers, like the CPM.


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## GuitsBoy

pelletizer said:


> Maybe after I buy some more.. LOL
> 
> Hang on let me get the info.....


Hey pelletizer, Id love to know what you replaced the motors with as well.  I already replaced my convection motor after less than two tons.   My warranty runs out at the very start of next season, so I would love to have a backup plan.

I have my noisy convection motor still, and I want to try and replace the bearings first, but I'm having trouble pulling the squirrel cage off, thanks to some mushroomed metal under the set screw.  It may be worth replacing the whole motor...


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