# Window Treatments



## Typ0 (Jan 31, 2015)

Well I have learned how much energy is being lost from my widows.  I'm trying to decide the most effective window treatments based on price and effectiveness and thought I would ask here.  I'm considering curtains and roman shades.  Were I to go with the shades is it better to mount inside the frame or outside?

With all these solutions I'm not sure I like the idea of the inevitable air gaps!


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## Woody Stover (Jan 31, 2015)

What is the problem? Old single-pane glass and leaky frames? If so, how about some of the 3M window insulator film that mounts on the outside? Works even when the drapes are open. It should be 50* out to install it, though...  http://www.menards.com/main/p-2381807-c-3624.htm


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## Typ0 (Jan 31, 2015)

That's a good idea for some of the windows I have and I will install them next year.  However, I have a couple of large windows in the living room I don't want to put that stuff on as I like to open the windows occasionally when there is a mild day to air out and they will look funny.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 31, 2015)

Yeah, I guess you could put it up and tear it off each year, but that's kinda wasteful. I would view it as a permanent installation. It doesn't 'look funny' if you have someone to help install it and get it on flat. Even if you have a couple of wrinkles, they disappear when you hit it with the hair dryer or heat gun.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 31, 2015)

Comes out almost as clear as glass...


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## peakbagger (Jan 31, 2015)

I really like double cellular blinds with side tracks. They seal the window off tight but open easily


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## Typ0 (Jan 31, 2015)

peakbagger said:


> I really like double cellular blinds with side tracks. They seal the window off tight but open easily



see I didn't even know they had side tracks and that's exactly what I am looking for.  Thank you!

Where did you get yours?


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## becasunshine (Jan 31, 2015)

Little 1950s brick bungalow in town:
We opted not to have "tracked" cell shades because of our tilt in replacement windows.  We do have cell shades on almost all windows and most have curtains over them for extra insulation.  Depending on the type of window frame, some of our shades are outside mount and cover the entire window and its external trim.  Those windows are sliders with no window well.  Those windows are covered in their entirety by the shade.  We have regular cotton curtains over these cell shades in one bedroom and bathroom, and no curtains over the slider windows in the room in which the pellet stove resides.

We also have a few double hung windows (these have the tilt in windows) with deep window wells.  The cell shades on those windows are inside mount without tracks.  There is the tiniest of gaps in between the cell shade and the window frame.  I can tell you that even with double pane replacement windows, convection cold is an issue when the temps fall into the teens and below.  We actually could feel the cold coming into the room from the glass, around the cell shades, through that tiny sliver of space when we were in the midst of a deep freeze a few years ago.  We opted to add thermal curtain panels over the cell shades on those windows, which we pull across the windows during temperature extremes. The panels cover that tiny gap between the shade and the frame, and also provide an additional layer of insulation when pulled closed. We bought the panels at a big box home improvement store and we hung them from curtain rings with clips.  Works for us.

One of the aspects that I love about our cell shades is that we get privacy and a small insulation factor while also letting light into the room.  You can get room darkening shades as well.  Depending on the material used to line the shade for darkening, those shades may have a higher insulation factor.

I will add this:  we have to air this house out on a regular basis, and make liberal use of exhaust fans when cooking and showering.  This house has brick and block exterior walls with mostly plaster interior walls, and no wall insulation.  We have mass but not insulation in the traditional sense.  Beefing up the attic insulation helped, as did air sealing- but in the winter, cold exterior temps and warm interior temps meeting on those walls and windows likes to condense.  So know that when you are considering cell shades with tracks.  If you are in a similar situation, you'll need to be mindful to open those cell shades regularly to "dry out" your windows.

2007 construction house to which we hope to retire:
All new windows with standard big box home improvement 2" vinyl slat blinds.  We use a wood stove here.  Will eventually put some thermal stuff over those blinds for additional insulation- just not ready to drop that dime yet.  The wood stove carries the house well enough, the walls are thick enough with enough wall insulation, and the slat blinds do an OK job with some convective cooling/heating deterrence that I'm not quite motivated to take on that project yet.

We had winds off of the water from the NNW last night up to and over 30 mph, with wind chills down to -4'F.  Right now, on a bright sunny day, it's 32'F outside with a wind chill down to 15'F.  So yeah, I do need to look into some window swaddling for this house.  I really like the simple, clean look of the blinds so I'll admit, I'm not hugely motivated at this point... but I do need to look into it, even though this house holds its environmental conditioning well.

In our first home, I made Roman shades and balloon shades for all of the windows in the house.  If I did it again, I'd use a quilted material or some sort of insulated batting type of fabric.  Roman shades are not difficult to make, just time consuming.  If your home's style is amenable, window quilts constructed as Roman shades that cover the entire window are a simple solution.


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## Typ0 (Jan 31, 2015)

Thanks for the great response.  Your old house sounds a lot like mine.  Actually had the windows replaced thinking they were a problem and nope we still get the same phenomena you did.

I feel like I am some window treatments and a ceiling fan away from some real warmth.  That and keeping some bedroom doors closed to reduce the amount of wall footage that touches the outside like you say.  Sitting in your living room basking in the cold air exchange of a 0 degree and 30 below wind chill outside via your window really blows.



becasunshine said:


> Little 1950s brick bungalow in town:
> We opted not to have "tracked" cell shades because of our tilt in replacement windows.  We do have cell shades on almost all windows and most have curtains over them for extra insulation.  Depending on the type of window frame, some of our shades are outside mount and cover the entire window and its external trim.  Those windows are sliders with no window well.  Those windows are covered in their entirety by the shade.  We have regular cotton curtains over these cell shades in one bedroom and bathroom, and no curtains over the slider windows in the room in which the pellet stove resides.
> 
> We also have a few double hung windows (these have the tilt in windows) with deep window wells.  The cell shades on those windows are inside mount without tracks.  There is the tiniest of gaps in between the cell shade and the window frame.  I can tell you that even with double pane replacement windows, convection cold is an issue when the temps fall into the teens and below.  We actually could feel the cold coming into the room from the glass, around the cell shades, through that tiny sliver of space when we were in the midst of a deep freeze a few years ago.  We opted to add thermal curtain panels over the cell shades on those windows, which we pull across the windows during temperature extremes. The panels cover that tiny gap between the shade and the frame, and also provide an additional layer of insulation when pulled closed. We bought the panels at a big box home improvement store and we hung them from curtain rings with clips.  Works for us.
> ...


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## semipro (Feb 1, 2015)

We installed these double cellular blinds with sealing side tracks (and tops and bottoms) and they've done well. 
http://www.comfortex.com/cellular/Comfortracks_features.php 
We also have double cellulars without side tracks and the difference the side tracks make is enormous. 
What we've found is that the perimeter sealing is way more important than the R-value of the covering.


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## Doug MacIVER (Feb 1, 2015)

made this product years ago, I think the blue shades were made in my factory. Ms powers a little difficult to deal with. can't say if they are still mfg. these things but those that got the stuff we made said all was ok.http://sailshade.com/index.html


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## WES999 (Feb 1, 2015)

I made these inside storm windows for all the windows that I could fit them in, the ones that couldn't I used the single
layer shrink film, I did the windows on the doors also. Very cost effective, about $10-15/ window.
I have single pane windows with storm, OK condition but somewhat leaky.
The frames are stained to match the trim, they are hardly noticeable.
Seems to really cut down air infiltration/heat loss.


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## becasunshine (Feb 2, 2015)

WES999 said:


> I made these inside storm windows for all the windows that I could fit them in, the ones that couldn't I used the single
> layer shrink film, I did the windows on the doors also. Very cost effective, about $10-15/ window.
> I have single pane windows with storm, OK condition but somewhat leaky.
> The frames are stained to match the trim, they are hardly noticeable.
> ...




That looks really, really nice.  I'd bet that the extra layer of air in between the plastic sheeting and your windows also adds "insulation" and also helps block convective cold.


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## becasunshine (Feb 2, 2015)

Typ0 said:


> Thanks for the great response.  Your old house sounds a lot like mine.  Actually had the windows replaced thinking they were a problem and nope we still get the same phenomena you did.
> 
> I feel like I am some window treatments and a ceiling fan away from some real warmth.  That and keeping some bedroom doors closed to reduce the amount of wall footage that touches the outside like you say.  Sitting in your living room basking in the cold air exchange of a 0 degree and 30 below wind chill outside via your window really blows.



Bingo.  Even though our winter temperatures aren't as challenging as yours I know exactly what you mean here.  We were told, when we bought this pellet stove, that it would "run us out of the house."  The stove is rated to heat 2000 sq. ft. and we installed it in a single story house with 1420 sq. ft.  The pellet stove has the potential to run us out of the house if it's 60'F and sunny.

Truth be told we probably should have bought a different/higher BTU pellet stove for our application but, on the other hand, the Napoleon is pretty miserly with pellets at its optimum setting.  The stove isn't the most expensive on the market and we aren't ripping through pellets at a phenomenal rate, so learning to hang on to the BTUs it generates saves us the most money.

This house had replacement windows installed when we purchased it so that much was done for us.

Addressing the attic insulation made a big difference for us.  I've typed this story out so many times that I'm sure that the mods are sick to death of seeing it, but it's relevant to people with older construction houses.  We had a company install a radiant barrier "tented" (stapled to the rafters) in our attic.  Some very small nooks have the radiant barrier on the floor of the attic but most of the attic is "tented."  Installation day was cold, gray/overcast, and windy with a low front moving in.  We turned the furnace completely off because the house would be opened all morning with the crew coming in and out of the attic and the house to bring in insulation.  I kept the pellet stove on and sat in the room with the pellet stove for warmth.

Temperatures dropped through the morning as they worked- and I was surprised to see that even though exterior temperatures were dropping, the house was basically opened to the elements through the front door, the attic door was opened, and the furnace was off, the temperature in the house ROSE as they covered the rafters and gables with the insulated radiant barrier material.  The pellet stove was actually carrying the house for the first time.

That afternoon we bought rolled batting insulation and my husband installed it in the main part of the attic.  The company had "tented" over the access to the little niches but since they had put the radiant barriers on the floors of those areas, over the existing insulation, we just let that be.  I should note here that one of the reasons we went with this company instead of at DIY install was their proprietary product.  It has insulation sandwiched in between two layers of radiant barrier.  The radiant barrier material itself is more substantial and more durable than the mylar on the products available to us at big box home improvement stores.  Most importantly, this material breathes- so it doesn't retain moisture.  That's huge, especially if it is being simply laid on top of existing insulation.

The existing insulation in our attic- R19 batting insulation over top of the original rock wool in between the floor joists in the attic- was in good shape.  My husband simply rolled R30 batting insulation over it cross wise.

That helped us immensely.

The next year we did some air sealing in the house, making liberal use of caulk, spray foam, and UL approved faceplate insulators for the outlets and wall switches.  There are several FedGov web sites that provide guidance for air leak mitigation.  They address the safe and proper use of caulk and foam sealant around electrical boxes and fixtures- be sure to look those up if you decide to air seal.

Since we've added the attic insulation and addressed air leaks, we've found that the pellet stove can carry the house on most of our heating days, BUT.  The "bridging effect" of the brick-block-lathe-plaster walls re: conductive cold means that we are prone to condensation.  The pellet stove alone simply does not move enough air in the house to evaporate the condensation on the windows.  We use exhaust fans for cooking and during showers but that doesn't pull enough moisture out of the house to compensate for its tendency to condense moisture.  We've found that this house is happiest when we allow the gas furnace to run for a couple of cycles once or twice a day.

I've tried using just the HVAC fan to circulate air, and the HVAC fan plus ceiling fans to circulate air, but it isn't enough.  All we do with that is dissipate our precious pellet stove heat in the unheated duct work.  The air flow isn't enough to evaporate air or to pull fresh air in through the cracks and crevices in the house to exchange enough air in the envelope.  We really do need to let the furnace run for a couple of cycles with its higher fan speed and the added heat.  That keeps the windows dry.

Also (and I can already hear the shrieking) if we are in a temperature place where we are relying heavily on the pellet stove and the outdoor humidity is low, I open up the house at least once a week and use all of our exhaust fans to blast the existing air and humidity out of the house.  YES I KNOW THE HEAT LOSS!  THE HEAT LOSS!  But I find with this house that the simple exchange of air once or twice a week doesn't put us at a huge "heat deficit" in the house.  If the heat sinks- the furnishings, the walls, etc.- are not allowed to cool down, a episodic air exchange doesn't put us behind the heating curve that much.  The furnace and the pellet stove aren't trying to keep up with continuous leakage and they aren't trying to heat up cold walls, cold floors and cold furnishings.  They heat up the "new" air and we are back on target.


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## Cynnergy (Feb 2, 2015)

WES999 said:


> I made these inside storm windows for all the windows that I could fit them in, the ones that couldn't I used the single
> layer shrink film, I did the windows on the doors also. Very cost effective, about $10-15/ window.



I am planning on making these for our single pane windows that have condensation issues.  Yours look great!


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## begreen (Feb 3, 2015)

We had a full set of these homemade storm windows, but made with heavy clear vinyl instead. They went up every fall on the exterior and lasted over 10 years. 8 yrs ago I finally either made and installed permanent glass storms for the non-opening windows or replaced the other old windows with new thermopane units.


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## TradEddie (Feb 3, 2015)

becasunshine said:


> The pellet stove alone simply does not move enough air in the house to evaporate the condensation on the windows.


Even with cold walls, that sounds extreme, especially for new windows. At this time of year, moisture in your house is coming exclusively from your activities, unless you are doing something to add more, condensation should not be an issue almost no matter how cold it is outside. Are you venting a dryer inside, or drying clothes by the hearth?

TE


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## sesmith (Feb 3, 2015)

I used to use interior storms back before we replaced all the windows in our house.  The storms were just pieces of acrylic cut to size.  They had 1/2" magnetic tape around the edge.  That mated to 1/2" steel tape attached to the window trim.  Worked great.  I don't know where you find the steel tape these days, though the magnetic tape is easily found.  The last ones I made (and the only ones I still use) are on my velux skylights.  They help with condensation, and are held in place with velcro around the edges.  The magnetic / steel tape works better, as it makes them easier to remove.  Interior storms work better than other window coverings, IMO, cause they can be left up all day and don't require you to open and close them.  They also seal well.

You can also do external storms.  A couple of the better brands are really good, and can be bought with low-E coating.  Exterior storms are good in that they also protect the windows from the elements.


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## woodgeek (Feb 4, 2015)

When my ancient, triple-track storms were beat, I went with 2-track low-E storms on all my 65 yr old single-pane wood primary windows.  These were cheaper than the cheapest replacement windows, and I expect them to last a very long time.

Best of all: my measurements suggest I am getting R-3, U-0.33 performance.


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## maple1 (Feb 4, 2015)

becasunshine said:


> Bingo.  Even though our winter temperatures aren't as challenging as yours I know exactly what you mean here.  We were told, when we bought this pellet stove, that it would "run us out of the house."  The stove is rated to heat 2000 sq. ft. and we installed it in a single story house with 1420 sq. ft.  The pellet stove has the potential to run us out of the house if it's 60'F and sunny.
> 
> Truth be told we probably should have bought a different/higher BTU pellet stove for our application but, on the other hand, the Napoleon is pretty miserly with pellets at its optimum setting.  The stove isn't the most expensive on the market and we aren't ripping through pellets at a phenomenal rate, so learning to hang on to the BTUs it generates saves us the most money.
> 
> ...


 
Do you actually monitor your interior humidity levels to see what the humidity actually is in the house? Usually winter humidity levels won't get so low that dehumidification is needed, even in a fairly tight house. Or maybe you have a damp basement? Do you get condensation on the walls themselves?


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

TradEddie said:


> Even with cold walls, that sounds extreme, especially for new windows. At this time of year, moisture in your house is coming exclusively from your activities, unless you are doing something to add more, condensation should not be an issue almost no matter how cold it is outside. Are you venting a dryer inside, or drying clothes by the hearth?
> 
> TE



We don't get condensation on the windows every day.  We get it when there is a big drop in outside temperature in a short amount of time.  This year has been particularly bad for that.  As far as adding moisture in the house:  yes.  The dryer is vented to the outside but we rarely use the dryer, so we aren't pulling air out of the house through the dryer vent.  We do dry most of our laundry on a rack in the room with the stove.  Our gas water heater and gas furnace are in the laundry room, i.e. within the conditioned envelope of the house.  All gas burning appliances emit water vapor as a by product of combustion.  Our main bathroom (the one with the bathtub/shower) does not have a window, but we do have a modern, recently installed, high cfm bathroom exhaust fan and we use it.  Bonus round, we have two HydroFarm MegaGarden hydroponic gardens in the room with the pellet stove, and two smaller AeroGardens, one in the stove room and one elsewhere in the house. 

Value Added we have cell shades on most of the windows. 

The best way to solve our window condensation problem, when it happens, is to open the cell shades and let the gas furnace run for a handful of cycles. 

Per above, I tried using the HVAC fan but unless the furnace is online, the fan runs at the lower "air conditioner" speed.  And it pulls our pellet stove heated air into the unheated ducts outside of the conditioned envelope.  The ducts are wrapped in insulation but there simply aren't enough BTU's in play to keep the air heated until it comes out of the registers.  I've tried the HVAC fan plus the ceiling fans.  It isn't enough.  What we need, when we need it, is heat blowing on or near the windows.  Since the floor registers are on the exterior walls for the most part, running the furnace for a few cycles does the trick.

The window condensation in these old houses with plaster lathe interior walls, brick and block exterior walls and no wall insulation is a fact of life.  Look it up.  The most practical, least disruptive, least expensive solution offered, IMHO, is simply to "warm it up."  Our pellet stove will hold the house for the most part, but its fan is not powerful enough and the stove itself is not putting out enough BTU's to take the place of the big blast of air coming directly off of a gas furnace with the HVAC fan running on "furnace speed."

I do understand your skepticism and I'd probably question it too, if I wasn't living it.


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Do you actually monitor your interior humidity levels to see what the humidity actually is in the house? Usually winter humidity levels won't get so low that dehumidification is needed, even in a fairly tight house. Or maybe you have a damp basement? Do you get condensation on the walls themselves?



No basement, there is a crawl space, but no standing water in the crawl that we've seen, and no mold on the floor joists.

No moisture on the walls themselves but if we are below freezing for several days, and/or it's cold and overcast, the interior walls are downright COLD to the touch.

I don't have an indoor hygrometer here.  The condensation on our windows tells me when I need to blast the place out and/or let the furnace run for a couple of cycles.

In the summer, any condensation on the windows is likely to happen on the outside if at all- and anyway the air conditioner takes the humidity out of the house.


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## WES999 (Feb 9, 2015)

I too had quite a bit of condensation and some mold on my windows.
Installing the inside storms and shrink film completely eliminated it.


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2015)

becasunshine said:


> No basement, there is a crawl space, but no standing water in the crawl that we've seen, and no mold on the floor joists.
> 
> No moisture on the walls themselves but if we are below freezing for several days, and/or it's cold and overcast, the interior walls are downright COLD to the touch.
> 
> ...


 
I think I would get a hygrometer/humidity meter. Condensation on windows isn't a tell-all re. interior humidity levels.


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

maple1 said:


> I think I would get a hygrometer/humidity meter. Condensation on windows isn't a tell-all re. interior humidity levels.



OK, not to be argumentative, but then what?  We do what we currently do about it- we open the windows.  We use the through the wall exhaust fan over the stove, the high CFM exhaust fan in the bathroom, and the whole house exhaust fan in the laundry room.  We move warm air around the house a couple of times a day with the furnace if necessary.  We aren't having a mold problem, so we aren't looking at mold mitigation here.

Today, for instance- there is no condensation on the windows.  Zip zero nada. There was no condensation when I opened the cell shades today. There was no condensation yesterday.  But we are in the high 50's low 60's today.  Tonight will drop to the low 30's and tomorrow's high will be in the low 40's- that's a thirty degree drop from today into tonight, and a twenty five degree drop from today to tomorrow. 

On top of that it will start to rain this afternoon and it will rain through the night.  We may even get some wet snow.  Cold and wet weather, no wall insulation = condensation on the windows. When I get up tomorrow morning I will most likely find condensation on the interior windows.  I will open the cell shades, run the pellet stove all day, and run the gas furnace for a couple of cycles. I'll run the exhaust fan in the kitchen when I cook, and we'll run the exhaust fan in the bathrooms when we shower.   It will dry out.

This year has been particularly bad for condensation because the weather has been so variable.  When it's warm, it's unseasonably warm.  Then it drops by 30+ degrees and it's unseasonably cold.

About condensation- here's an article describing the exact same construction of our exterior walls, only the problem these people are experiencing is condensation inside kitchen cabinets.  When you think about it, it makes sense.  There's the whole hot/cold barrier with absolutely no air circulation to dry it out.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...019043_1_exterior-walls-condensation-cabinets


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2015)

I guess my point is that if you rely only on condensation on windows as an indication of possibly high humidity levels, and ventilate to the point of not having condensation on the windows, you may be ventilating to the point of excessively low humidity levels. Which may cause issues in other areas - like seasonal expansion & contraction of wood flooring leading to gaps & cracks etc..

Right now, my humidity levels are showing at the 25% level. Which some would say is too low. But some of my windows have condensation on them.


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

maple1 said:


> I guess my point is that if you rely only on condensation on windows as an indication of possibly high humidity levels, and ventilate to the point of not having condensation on the windows, you may be ventilating to the point of excessively low humidity levels. Which may cause issues in other areas - like seasonal expansion & contraction of wood flooring leading to gaps & cracks etc..
> 
> Right now, my humidity levels are showing at the 25% level. Which some would say is too low. But some of my windows have condensation on them.


 
Ahh, I see!   Thank you.    I was all, "SO IF THE HUMIDITY IS HIGH, WHAT DOES HE WANT ME TO DO ABOUT IT BEYOND WHAT WE ALREADY DO???"  (Because I'm *not* going to run a flippin' de-humidifier in my living space NO.  My sinuses would kill me in my sleep and I'd deserve it.)

Also I guess there is the possibility that we waste a little too much heat airing out the house, but honestly, I like airing it out.  In many places in Europe where folks are living in similar construction with mass but no insulation, daily airings are routine.  I don't air the house out every day in the dead of winter or the heat of summer.  I do tend to air it out more in the winter, believe it or not.  In the summer, running the a/c takes care of humidity and seems to take care of cooking aromas, etc. most efficiently.  (A good HVAC filter is probably helping us as well.) I think that, because we don't run the HVAC as often in the winter, we need the airing out more often.  I guess I air it out about once a week in the winter.

Thank you for your thoughts, though, Maple- now I understand!


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## maple1 (Feb 9, 2015)

Nothing wrong with an airing out at all as long as you can stand the brief cold spell inside - nothing like a breath of fresh air. I just think a lot of people think they have really high humidity inside when they see moisture on their windows, when in actuality if they were to actually measure it they would likely find low humidity. Unless their house was really quite tight.


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## woodgeek (Feb 9, 2015)

A cheap option is to put an 'aircycler' switch on one of your bath fans.

http://www.amazon.com/AirCycler-SmartExhaust-Time-Switch-White/dp/B00M1VNHUQ

In addition to being a 'delay off' timer....fan runs for programmed # of minutes after the light is switched off, handy for an odor fan, it can also be set to run the fan for XX minuted every hour, with XX from 0 to 60.

You can install it, and rather than opening a window when you think of it, just set this thing to run 10-15 mins/hour, or whatever you need to get rid of the window condensation.


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

woodgeek said:


> A cheap option is to put an 'aircycler' switch on one of your bath fans.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AirCycler-SmartExhaust-Time-Switch-White/dp/B00M1VNHUQ
> 
> ...



Aaaah!  I like it!   Thank you!    Will pass this on to Hubs!


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## becasunshine (Feb 9, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Nothing wrong with an airing out at all as long as you can stand the brief cold spell inside - nothing like a breath of fresh air. I just think a lot of people think they have really high humidity inside when they see moisture on their windows, when in actuality if they were to actually measure it they would likely find low humidity. Unless their house was really quite tight.



Thank you so much for clarifying this!  I get it now!


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## TradEddie (Feb 9, 2015)

becasunshine said:


> We do dry most of our laundry on a rack in the room with the stove



That's the problem right there, not really the poorly insulated walls. Weather variations will make it worse, but unless the outside temperature drop is drastic enough to cause fog or dew, there can be no condensation on interior walls or windows of a heated home unless some activity in the home is generating significant water vapor. Your old home is probably so leaky that it's helping you, in newer more airtight homes it could be even worse!  Normal activities like breathing, short periods of boiling, or showers with good bathroom fans do not add much water to the air, but drying clothes is another story.

I'm not saying use the dryer, but if that condensation is causing damage that costs more than the dryer savings, it's easy to solve.

TE


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## TradEddie (Feb 9, 2015)

becasunshine said:


> I just think a lot of people think they have really high humidity inside when they see moisture on their windows, when in actuality if they were to actually measure it they would likely find low humidity. Unless their house was really quite tight.



If you're discussing condensation, there is not much point in measuring humidity, unless you immediately convert it to dewpoint. A "low" humidity stove room at 80F can easily have condensation on exterior windows, but only because the dewpoint is being raised by activities in the house. Exterior air cannot condense on any surface unless that surface is COLDER than the exterior air and no surface in a heated home is colder than the outside air.

TE


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