# Table Saw Recommendations



## lukem (May 28, 2013)

I've got several projects on the horizon (building some cabinets and a cider press frame) that are going to require a decent table saw.  Been browsing Craigslist for months and nothing is popping up except el cheapos or WW2 era models priced to include sentimental value of old grand-pappy.

I'm looking for something that is priced under $400 and can rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood in half.  I have 110 and 220 available for power.  Is there such a machine out there or do I should I be prepared to spend more?


----------



## Retired Guy (May 28, 2013)

I bought a Bosch 4000 a couple years ago and it has worked well.


----------



## fishingpol (May 28, 2013)

What is the biggest stock you will be working with and what species? 

If using thick stock oak for the apple press frame, you will need some power so it does not bog down.


----------



## Hogwildz (May 28, 2013)

I bought a Skil at Lowes, and while it is certainly no Dewalt or top of the line saw table, it has served well on my addition build. Was about $169.00 and already paid for itself. Even handles a Dado. I have ripped 2x4s with it ripping along the 4" side, and it will start to bog if I don't go slower. Other than that, I am happy with the performance vs the price.


----------



## greg13 (May 28, 2013)

I have a fold up Ryobi that I bought used for $75 five years ago on craigslist. I have used the crap out of it and it never misses a beat.


----------



## lukem (May 28, 2013)

Mostly hardwood.  Up to 4" on occasion.  I don't mind taking it slow for the tough stuff.


----------



## fossil (May 28, 2013)

I think the quality/sharpness and appropriate size/type of the blade you use for the job you're wanting to do, and your technique/patience with which you use the tool will go a long way toward making dang near any half-way decent saw work for you if you're not depending on the tool for your livelihood and expecting it to do industrial type work day in and day out.  Hell, this is better (and cheaper) than the first table saw I had:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10in...x000001&kpid=00921807000P&kispla=00921807000P


----------



## fossil (May 28, 2013)

A 10" table saw will not cut a 4" piece of stock on one pass. (not even a nominal 4). Actual depth of cut will be something like 3 1/8".  Wanna cut through a 4", you'll need a 12" saw.


----------



## jeff_t (May 28, 2013)

My sister bought me a Skil for Christmas. I took it back to Lowe's after reading a bunch of reviews, and traded it in for a Dewalt. It was almost twice the price, but sooo much better. I really like the fence adjustment.

I haven't used it a lot yet, but so far I'm very pleased.


----------



## PapaDave (May 28, 2013)

So, I guess a Powermatic, Delta, or Sawstop are out of the question at this point?
I'd not hesitate to get something like Rick suggested considering your planned use. Get a GOOD blade, and I don't mean a $10 special from Bob's hardware store (no offense to all the guys named Bob out there).
It'll make using a lesser saw more enjoyable. This is kinda like the advice heard around here about using dry wood. Do it. It works.
ETA: Consider using a straightedge and circ. saw to do initial breakdown of large panel stock, then do final cuts on the TS. Unless you have a nice sized table and a decently heavy saw (think cabinet saw), the saw may want to move while trying to do full 4x8 sheet goods. The fence may not be sturdy enough for the pressure of a full sized panel either. Just my .02.


----------



## semipro (May 28, 2013)

I have a Ryobi BT3000. Interesting saw/system.
If I were buying a new saw I'd seriously consider this one from Home Depot. Its a little more than you want to spend but you might get a deal.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...Table-Saw-R4512/202500206?N=c29i#.UaVTqNjo74s

Edit: You can get a pretty good quality cut to 4" depth with two passes on a 10" table saw.


----------



## lukem (May 28, 2013)

Most of the breakdown work on the 4" stock is done and I have access to a good planer so double cutting doesn't concern me.  A good sturdy fence and ability to rip larger widths are my main concern.  24" rip isn't a hard requirement but a nice to have.


----------



## gzecc (May 28, 2013)

This is a great saw at the right price.
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/3799576466.html


----------



## jebatty (May 29, 2013)

My 10" Jet has served me well for about 15 years. Use good carbide blades, If the motor can run on 220-240V, do it. The saw will run with much more power and the motor will heat up much less. Big difference in performance on heavy stock.

In general I have had very good experience with Jet tools. Also have a 6" joiner, an 18" band saw, and a 20" planer, all Jet. And a 12" commercial grade Delta radial arm saw, also very good. All motors wired for 220-240V.


----------



## lukem (May 30, 2013)

Thoughts on this one:

http://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/tls/3833111524.html


----------



## blades (May 30, 2013)

Having played the game with various table saws over the years, and being a professional sharpener/ machinist/et all, here is my take. Based on your starting post, I would not waste time and money on on 90% of the "table saws" on the market. For starters most of them are too light, designed for easy mobility which translates to shake rattle and roll when trying to use and way under powered. 220v is the only way to fly minimum 3hp. If you take your time and diligently search you can come up with a good cabinet saw including a decent fence $400-800 range. When I say cabinet saw this means the table is mounted to the cabinet and the motor/trunnion assembly is also independently mounted to the cabinet. In this way the trunnion to table interface ( blade running parallel to the miter slots and fence) can be achieved very easily  something that is almost impossible to do on the bulk of the units out there including the hybrid table saws. Delta unisaw, Powermatic PM66 are more or less the standard for comparison. Recently I picked up ( craigs list) a PM66 with 66" fence system for $300, sold a less than adequate unit I had for $75 . The age of the unit is about 30 some odd years old.  It is quiet doesn't shake or vibrate all over and is repairable. It will out last me and my son as well . This is a 10" , the motor alone weighs in at about 50 lbs ( 3hp 220v 1p) over all about 400 lbs.
   Saw blades,  Good quality blades are not cheap. expect to pay at a minimum $1.25 per carbide tip. The heart of a blade is the body. A good blade will be within .002 runout. Dewalt, Vermont, Old Ham are generally on the bottom of the list  of most pros. FS Tool, Systamatic, Popular Machinery and Tool, Skarpaz are some of the better quality blades, and not generally found in the big box stores. 12" blades a on table saw is a nice luxury, 12" on a power miter saw is necessity. 
   Radial arm saws again here we are dealing with rigidity issues for the bulk of the units out there sold in homeowner outlets, older industrial units are quite plentiful and represent a better bang for the buck , 12" is the better way to fly here also. Down side is that a lot of them might be 3 phase but a static converter resolves that problem  in a cost effective manor also applies to table saws if set up for 3 phase (  3 phase actually represents the better buy most times).

 I got to get back to work, post questions if need be and I will try to answer later.  Chris


----------



## ironpony (May 30, 2013)

the ryobi bt 3000 mentioned above is a pretty versatile saw for the money. I have one decent power, nice slide table for angles, rip 24 wide a little on the light side weight wise. Cuts nice with a good blade, not a cabinet grade saw by any means but will fill the table saw need nicely.


----------



## Ashful (May 30, 2013)

If cutting 4" thick stock, you're in the territory of 16"+ blades and 5+ hp.  Northfield, Oliver, Tannewitz... maybe a Delta12/14, in a pinch.  You ain't gonna touch much in 3-figure territory.  Check the price on a Northfield no.4.

Why not a band saw?  If I could have only one saw in my shop, it would be a 20" band saw.


----------



## blades (May 30, 2013)

24" and 17" bandsaws here for nicking down to apx size, then to planer.


----------



## semipro (May 30, 2013)

Joful said:


> Why not a band saw? If I could have only one saw in my shop, it would be a 20" band saw


This interests me, primarily because I haven't used one and don't have one.   How is it that a band saw is that useful?  
Not that I have much room in my shop for anything else.


----------



## Ashful (May 30, 2013)

semipro said:


> This interests me, primarily because I haven't used one and don't have one. How is it that a band saw is that useful?
> Not that I have much room in my shop for anything else.


 
I should actually qualify my original statement, but first some background: I have two band saws in my inventory, a newer 20" JWBS-20 and a vintage 32" Crescent. I also own a table saw, a 2200 lb. 5 hp Oliver with a 40" x 42" table, a rolling table with quadrant, dual arbors for 14" blades, and the capability to run a single blade up to 22" diameter. It's a monster of a machine, the only similar example manufactured today being the Northfield No.4.

When I was just starting out in woodworking, I was looking for the best way to add capability at minimal cost. I grew up using a radial arm saw, albeit a crappy Craftsman / Emerson 10"/12" unit, and knew they could be very flexible. I also knew they could be inaccurate, flimsy, frustrating, and dangerous. Reading all the best woodworking magazines of the day, I had it in my head I needed to shop table saws first, as I saw guys finding ways to do every possible operation on a table saw, but like you, I was looking to work with some pretty large architectural timbers.

Because of the specific job I had to do, I ended up buying the Jet JWBS-20 bandsaw, 20" throat and ability to saw 11" thick stock, at least in theory. I used it for ripping miles of timbers for beams and flooring. Because it was the only machine I had, I found ways to use it for other jobs, and began to realize that the bandsaw is really the analog to the hand saw. It makes a thru cut, and is an ideal machine for cutting tenons, shoulder mortises, ripping heavy stock, re-sawing planks, you name it.

Shortly thereafter, and looking for something that could compliment the band saw, I came back around to the radial saw. I learned of some of the very heavy and accurate radial saws made (WW2 vintage) by DeWalt and Delta, and more recently by Original Saw company. I found a heavy 1948 vintage DeWalt GE, an increadibly precise machine, which carries a 16" blade. The compliment of the two handled every job I needed to do, and I was set for a long time.

The table saw came along some time later, and by then I had two jointers, a planer, and a host of other small equipment. The table saw can plow a dado or rabbet, but so can my router or the radial saw. The table saw can rip, but so can my band saw. In fact, I found that almost every job that needs doing can be done better by one of my other machines, with the following exceptions:

1. The table saw can rip more safely than a radial saw, and more quickly than the band saw. It can leave a glue-line edge, like the radial saw, whereas the band saw rip requires planing to clean up.

2. In dado mode, the table saw is _removing_ a specific amount of material, as the amount of blade protrusion up thru the table is fixed. If your stock varies in thickness, you are always removing the same amount of material. Conversely, the radial saw is always _leaving _a specific amount of material, as the fixed variable in that configuration is the space left between the blade and the table. Again, this can be useful when performing precision operations, if your stock is less than 100% consistent (always).

The table saw is also a very fast machine for many jobs, cutting much more quickly than the band saw, and requiring less setup time than the radial saw. But I'm not working in a production shop, and I don't like to rush when I'm in the woodshop, anyway.

Recently I moved, and now I'm doing a lot of work on my 1770's vintage house, making new windows to fit the original sash, new wooden storm windows, cabinet doors, mouldings, etc. I have not set up my "permanent" new shop yet, and I'm temporarily working out of a detached garage, with extension cords strewn to various machines. I have set up my radial saw, the 20" band saw, my little 6" jointer, my 12" planer, and a crappy store-bought router table. The big table saw sits in the corner, with a dozen other things piled atop it. It would be great to have it set up for a few operations, but it's less flexible than the band saw / radial saw duo.


----------



## blades (May 31, 2013)

MY world is primarily  metallic,  Want a giant over arm router - its called a knee mill ( bridgeport being a brand name) I can make cuts a couple inches deep by putting slitter blades on the horizontal mill. Between my tool and cutter grinders and mills I can make most any joint, just not in a timely manner. Due to rehabbing a home I am back to doing wood working so  slowly acquiring quality wood working  machines , old school heavy iron style at reasonable prices ( takes a lot of patience for the right price on some of this). Planner, jointer, shapers are another area where mass is good along with long or the ability to add in and out feed tables to minimize snipe. Yep, skitterd a few boards  across the mills to get down to thickness needed. Takes a long time though. My 24" bandsaw is an old 2 range variable speed Du-All unit early 40's vintage Low speed about 16 sfm to a top end about 1600 sfm which is  still slow compared to the 17" top end. One thing I do try to stay away from on old iron is Babbitt bearings. Their replacement has become a lost art now days. If I come across an old 16" radial arm piece of iron at the right price it will likely follow me home.


----------



## Ashful (May 31, 2013)

16 - 1600 fpm is a good metal machine, but most wood band saws run 3000 - 5000 fpm! I see the Do-All's pop up in the local auctions... nice machines, on part with Northfield. Not often found cheap, though.

I went vintage Crescent. You can't beat the styling, and they're possibly the most solid and ubiquitous wood cutter ever made.


----------



## Sisu (May 31, 2013)

I bought a Ridgid folding table saw from Home Depot, since space is an issue for me.  I am pretty impressed with it.  It cuts nice and has a lot of power.  Also it has received some pretty favourable reviews.  The price is alright too.

If I had the space, I would have sprung for the Ridgid table saw with a caste-iron top.  Both are 10".


----------



## blades (Jun 1, 2013)

Saw blades - 10",   20-30 tip for rip and very course crosscut, 40 and 50 good for just about all operations, 60 on up for great cross cuts and  smooth glue joint cuts, finish cuts. Tooth configuration - Alternate top bevel = general purpose, Flat top = rip, Triple chip for composite type material ( osb , mdf ect.) Finish cuts, Atb High Angle or what is referred to as California triple chip for the composite materials generally 80 tip on a 10" dia. blade.
No mater what saw you get first thing to do is make aux. tables for out feed and left and/or right aux. tables for support , and maybe even a split one for the input side when working with 4x8 sheets ( split just means you can walk down the middle up to the saw. ). Out feed table is a must have function otherwise you are fighting gravity to keep say a 3 ft cut on the table saw when nearing the end of the cut. Really the same applies for the band saw and Radial arm units as well it is much safer that way and requires less help when working with large panels or long lengths.


----------



## Dune (Jun 1, 2013)

blades said:


> MY world is primarily metallic, Want a giant over arm router - its called a knee mill ( bridgeport being a brand name) I can make cuts a couple inches deep by putting slitter blades on the horizontal mill. Between my tool and cutter grinders and mills I can make most any joint, just not in a timely manner. Due to rehabbing a home I am back to doing wood working so slowly acquiring quality wood working machines , old school heavy iron style at reasonable prices ( takes a lot of patience for the right price on some of this). Planner, jointer, shapers are another area where mass is good along with long or the ability to add in and out feed tables to minimize snipe. Yep, skitterd a few boards across the mills to get down to thickness needed. Takes a long time though. My 24" bandsaw is an old 2 range variable speed Du-All unit early 40's vintage Low speed about 16 sfm to a top end about 1600 sfm which is still slow compared to the 17" top end. One thing I do try to stay away from on old iron is Babbitt bearings. Their replacement has become a lost art now days. If I come across an old 16" radial arm piece of iron at the right price it will likely follow me home.


 
While you are generally correct that most consumers should avoid babbit bearings in their used tool choices, repairing them is far from a lost art, though it may seem so on a regional basis.


----------



## Dune (Jun 1, 2013)

Joful said:


> 16 - 1600 fpm is a good metal machine, but most wood band saws run 3000 - 5000 fpm! I see the Do-All's pop up in the local auctions... nice machines, on part with Northfield. Not often found cheap, though.
> 
> I went vintage Crescent. You can't beat the styling, and they're possibly the most solid and ubiquitous wood cutter ever made.


 
Do-Alls, are metal working machines, though some models are capable of cutting anything from wood to stone, in terms of both band speed and rigidity.


----------



## Dune (Jun 1, 2013)

If I were in the market for a table saw, possibly the most dangerous item a consumer can buy without a background check, I would consider nothing other than the self braking model which will not cut off your hand or fingers.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 1, 2013)

Dune said:


> If I were in the market for a table saw, possibly the most dangerous item a consumer can buy without a background check, I would consider nothing other than the self braking model which will not cut off your hand or fingers.


 

No doubt:  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/five-cords-one-finger.95375/

Then again... I can't bear to part with my vintage iron.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 1, 2013)

lukem said:


> Thoughts on this one:
> 
> http://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/tls/3833111524.html


 

A 2 hp with a thin kerf blade will do ok. Price is good but if U want to build cabinets U can do better . I have seen Delta Unisaws go for $300
The fence on that saw is not the best but not all that bad. you could upgrade that.
A lot of good replies here, weight is great .
Wrestling 4x8 sheets on a TS is IMO not the best way,thats why I built my own panel saw ,a Safety Speed Cut clone, before that I used a hand held, and guide, break the panels down , allow for some waste, and then cut em accurately on the TS
My PM66 has a 52" fence , but I never use the capacity any more , a 30-36 would be fine.
Not the only good blades out there, but the best, and the only ones, I buy any more, Forrest Saw Blades, and can be purchased many other places , the WOODWORKER II is a GREAT all around blade, but not best for ripping thick stock.


----------



## save$ (Jun 1, 2013)

I would want one with a true rip fence.  Cast is better than molded.  Most important thing is getting really good blades for the material you intend to cut.  Then save them for that purpose.  Change your blades when you change the material to be cut.
Once you figure out that the blade is really important, you won't hesitate to spend $50 bucks instead of $20.  I have a table saw, a radial arm saw and a band saw and they all have their purpose.  I also keep an inexpensive Skil table saw (Lowes) in the garage so I don't have to run inside to the shop when I have just a few basic cuts for garden projects etc.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 2, 2013)

Great suggestions, if money was no concern, but the OP stated his budget, and a cabinet saw with Forrest blade does not fit.  I just spent $213 on a single Forrest blade last week, and I think my Dado King blade was somewhere closer to $400.  Stick with a mid-grade Freud for budget.  Full kerf for stability and clean rips in thin stock, and thin kerf to make up for your lacking hp the thick stuff.  Any table saw under 5hp is going to be a real struggle with 4" stock, so the thin kerf blade will be a blessing.

Those $300 unisaws usually need $500 in repairs and a full winter worth of restoration work.  Also, max depth of cut on a Uni is 3", useless for 4" stock, unless you can rip 1/16" wide of the line from both sides, and clean up in planer.


----------



## PapaDave (Jun 2, 2013)

blades said:


> Recently I picked up ( craigs list) a PM66 with 66" fence system for $300,


----------



## HDRock (Jun 2, 2013)

Yep , Freud good blades for budget, I have one on sliding miter, 
Don't know exactly where you are in Indiana, here is one   http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/3824674419.html

Not your budget but a very nice set up, I used to have one  http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/3800859877.html


----------



## PapaDave (Jun 2, 2013)

Nice find HDRock.
I'd get the Sears with the Biesemeyer fence. Fence alone is worth what he's asking.
Offer $200, put on a link belt, and a decent blade.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 2, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> Nice find HDRock.
> I'd get the Sears with the Biesemeyer fence. Fence alone is worth what he's asking.
> Offer $200, put on a link belt, and a decent blade.


At $200 would be good deal ,and a good fence is a must have.
I had  a link belt and turned steel pulleys on my contractor saw , made it run nice n smooth


----------



## blades (Jun 3, 2013)

Guess I got a heck of deal on the PM66, polish rust off top and fence ( 98% surface just a few pits won't bother a thing), new power cord, lubrication of the trunion assembly. Bearings all good.  Its humming along cutting true. Added a Kreg mitre assembly.  I haven't exceeded $400 on it yet including the Kreg. Had a bunch of old blades that customers brought in that repair costs exceeded replacement costs. So fixed those up and have a reasonable selection to work with for now.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah, I'd call that a good deal.  That saw was over $2500 new, and usually sells used around $1200 - $1400.


----------



## semipro (Jun 3, 2013)

I cleaned up my saw not too long ago; aligned the fence and blade, installed a new thin kerf blade, lubricated things.
I was feeling pretty good about my saw until this post came along.
Plodding along in ignorance (as I was) is not always a bad thing.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 3, 2013)

Sorta like I was with my firewood cache and my chainsaws, until I found this forum.


----------



## PapaDave (Jun 3, 2013)

All you guys/gals who use the thin kerfs ( I have one, on one of the chop saws) on the TS, do you notice any blade deflection when ripping something like Oak?
I've used a TS (cheap tabletop model) with one, and it was ok, but the cut wasn't great.


----------



## begreen (Jun 3, 2013)

Anyone have a Craftsman?
*http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921829000P*


----------



## FanMan (Jun 3, 2013)

I personally find a radial arm saw more useful for the kinds of things I do than a table saw.  Chopping 2x4s, angle cuts, ripping long pieces of dimensional lumber into oddball sizes and shapes.  Takes up less space along the wall in my shop than a table saw in the middle of the floor, too.  If I need to rip a 4x8 sheet I can always use the Skilsaw.

OTOH, my father (who was a contractor) asked his head carpenter/cabinetmaker which to buy and he suggested the table saw as being more generally useful.  My father bought the table saw and eventually bought the radial arm saw, too... ended up selling the table saw when he moved but he gave the radial saw to me.

As an aside, I have a friend who's been around metalworking tools all his life, recently restored an old sailboat and so needed to start acquiring woodworking tools.  His take was, "Wow, woodworking tools are _dangerous!  _Great big sharp teeth, you can get _hurt_ with these things!"


----------



## HDRock (Jun 3, 2013)

blades said:


> Guess I got a heck of deal on the PM66, polish rust off top and fence ( 98% surface just a few pits won't bother a thing), new power cord, lubrication of the trunion assembly. Bearings all good. Its humming along cutting true. Added a Kreg mitre assembly. I haven't exceeded $400 on it yet including the Kreg. Had a bunch of old blades that customers brought in that repair costs exceeded replacement costs. So fixed those up and have a reasonable selection to work with for now.


Yes U got a good deal I paid $2100 for mine new


----------



## semipro (Jun 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> Anyone have a Craftsman?
> *http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921829000P*


 
That looks like Craftsman's version of the Ryobi BT3000 (or a newer version).    
The BT3000 is an unusual saw/system which has quite a following. http://www.bt3central.com
I've mounted mine on a rolling workbench that I move outside for work since my shop is under the house.  
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/rolling-workbench-plans.52142/#post-654070


----------



## save$ (Jun 3, 2013)

My Dad built three kitchens with an eight inch Dewalt radial arm saw.  So the first saw I bought was a 10 inch  radial arm saw.  But after taking an adult shop course I opted to get a table saw and have no regrets. So much better for me when getting those accurate cuts when you want to cut wood that is being joined.  Anyone with a question on how to make certain cuts, just go to Youtube.  I have found so much useful information there.  Nice to see someone do it.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 3, 2013)

Hay lukem , where did ya go ? 
That Craftsman Table Saw, with Beismeir 52" Fence System, will do what U need,It is under your budget and is a good deal.
That fence alone is *$419.95 new, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Biesemeyer-50-Commercial-Saw-Fence-System/T22010*

*$528.99 Here  http://www.amazon.com/DELTA-BC50-Bi...1&sr=8-5&keywords=vega+table+saw+fence+system*


----------



## semipro (Jun 4, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> All you guys/gals who use the thin kerfs ( I have one, on one of the chop saws) on the TS, do you notice any blade deflection when ripping something like Oak?
> I've used a TS (cheap tabletop model) with one, and it was ok, but the cut wasn't great.


 
I don't notice the deflection but I'm sure I'm not as particular (or skilled) as others here that apparently do more detailed joinery.  I do primarily construction carpentry not furniture grade work.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 4, 2013)

My saws are all 14" and larger.  Not many thin kerf blades even made in the sizes I run.


----------



## loadstarken (Jun 5, 2013)

When I became a homeowner I started buying a bunch of tools for home improvements.  When I went to look at a craigslist table saw I noticed that the garage of the seller was totally full of huge wood working tools.  That when I got concerned that I was going to lose my garage.   

Then I thought about those tools I saw at the fair a couple decades ago that sold for thousands of dollars.   I checked on craigslist and I found one really close so I went to check it out.  The seller saw that I was interested and said he had to have it gone today and said $400 takes it all!

I said, "deal!"  I loaded up my new to me Shopsmith multi-tool!  It came with a upgraded fence, a jig saw, band saw and box of blades and lathe tools.


----------



## Ashful (Jun 5, 2013)

The Shopsmith is very cool. Not so practical for most jobs, but very cool.

A Leatherman tool has a screwdriver, pliers, etc., all in one package.  Now imagine they're your ONLY screwdriver, pliers, etc.


----------



## loadstarken (Jun 5, 2013)

True true.  My biggest complaint is that it's not portable but the fact that it's compact makes up for it not taking over my garage. 

I'm glad the previous owner bought all of the upgrades because it cost him a pretty penny!
Earlier this year I bought a super old version and shortened it down and use it exclusively as a drill press.


----------



## blades (Jun 6, 2013)

Thin Kerf blades, 2 styles ( 10"),  first is the complete plate at about .075 thick with a kerf in the .087-.095 range what we do to keep these from fluttering is add stabilizer discs on either side of the blade. Second style is Thin Rim, 2-2.5" depth is the .075-.087 plate thickness and then the plate steps up to the .095 or so range ( built in stabilizer section).  On the 12" chop saw stabilizer discs are sort of a must have especially for the in-expensive Dewalt and Old Ham and similar priced blades of the thin kerf variety.


----------



## Foragefarmer (Jun 6, 2013)

HDRock said:


> A 2 hp with a thin kerf blade will do ok. Price is good but if U want to build cabinets U can do better . I have seen Delta Unisaws go for $300
> The fence on that saw is not the best but not all that bad. you could upgrade that.
> A lot of good replies here, weight is great .
> Wrestling 4x8 sheets on a TS is IMO not the best way,thats why I built my own panel saw ,a Safety Speed Cut clone, before that I used a hand held, and guide, break the panels down , allow for some waste, and then cut em accurately on the TS
> ...


 

This, I agree with everything said in this post. But then again I also have a Powermatic and run Forrest blades. I would say wait it out on CL and try to find a decent saw.


----------



## timfromohio (Jun 6, 2013)

To me the table saw the heart of a shop.  Agree with other posters and get something decent - not saying you need a 3hp cabinet saw (though these make me drool), but I'd stay away from a cheapy direct drive saw.  I have a Ridgid TS3612 - there table saw that's 2 or 3 generations old - has the cast wings, but they are not solid they are the hex pattern.  It has excellent rip capacity - 36" right of blade.  Blade tilts both ways, great fence, and with a good sharp blade it does very well.  For ripping very large sheet goods I almost always cut down with a clamping straight edge and my circular saw, then do fine cuts on the table saw.

http://www.ridgid.com/ASSETS/88E78849BA6F4A5696DDF96F7D8755AB/TS3612_Table_Saw_Man.pdf


----------



## lukem (Jun 22, 2013)

Ended up finding a lightly used Delta 36-979 with a nice fence system.  $250.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 22, 2013)

lukem said:


> Ended up finding a lightly used Delta 36-979 with a nice fence system. $250.


Good to here that,   That's a good price for a good saw.

Does it have cast iron wings ??   did it come with maybe, a 30” Beisemeyer Fence  ???
Does it have a mobile base ??? 
Inquiring minds want to know 

 Put a set of machined steel pulleys and a  PowerTwist link belt on it and you’ll be amazed how smooth it will run.

Where is the pics


----------



## lukem (Jun 23, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Good to here that,   That's a good price for a good saw.
> 
> Does it have cast iron wings ??   did it come with maybe, a 30” Beisemeyer Fence  ???
> Does it have a mobile base ???
> ...


Cast wings...delta t2-30 fence...mobile base...router table not pictured...and kreg precision miter gauge.  Can't imagine it running much smoother or quieter than it does now.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 23, 2013)

lukem said:


> Cast wings...delta t2-30 fence...mobile base...router table not pictured...and kreg precision miter gauge. Can't imagine it running much smoother or quieter than it does now.


   Very nice 
Check this out,  Saw Performace Packages and Pulleys & Belts
You can reduce vibration by up to 80% in your bandsaw, contractor's saw, drill press, jointer or lathe with Power-Twist drive belts and these accurately machined pulleys.


----------



## lukem (Jun 23, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Very nice
> Check this out,  Saw Performace Packages and Pulleys & Belts
> You can reduce vibration by up to 80% in your bandsaw, contractor's saw, drill press, jointer or lathe with Power-Twist drive belts and these accurately machined pulleys.


It does need a new belt...current one has a couple knarly spots in it.


----------



## lukem (Jun 26, 2013)

Had this for only a couple days, but I've used it quite a bit and so far I really like it.  I didn't realize how crappy the picture above was when I posted it, but you can see that the top had some light rust.  It also had a fair amount of wood glue and general crap on it.  I got the big chunks off with a razor blade and cleaned the rest up with 000 steel wool and mineral spirits, followed by a light coat of paste wax.  It is slicker than snot now and makes ripping and miter cuts very easy and precise.

The miter gauge that came with it is really nice...I like it a lot.  I'm sure there are better ones out there, but I can't see myself needing anything more than this.

It has a thin kerf blade.  I'm not sure I like it.  Seems to have too much flex side-side.  This has a 1.5 horse motor wired for 1210VAC, but can be wired for 240.  Couple questions on that:

1.  Would it run OK with a regular kerf blade on 120VAC?
2.  If not, would it run OK with a regular kerf blade on 240VAC?
3.  Should I wire it up for 240VAC anyway, keeping in mind that 2420 isn't as "portable" as 120?

It has a dust collector setup on the bottom that directs a good majority of the dust into a pile right below the saw.  I don't have a dust collection system, but is there a good relatively inexpensive bag I could fasten directly to the 4" port?


----------



## Ashful (Jun 26, 2013)

lukem said:


> This has a 1.5 horse motor wired for 1210VAC, but can be wired for 240. Couple questions on that:
> 
> 1. Would it run OK with a regular kerf blade on 120VAC?
> 2. If not, would it run OK with a regular kerf blade on 240VAC?
> ...


 

1. Voltage has no bearing on horsepower, assuming your cordage is sized appropriately.
2. Standard kerf blades do require more HP than thin kerf. If you're not seeing it struggle with thin kerf, I'd try a standard kerf. You can always step back to thin kerf for cuts in thick or difficult woods.
3. Depends on your situation. I wire everything that will stay in the shop at 240V, but keep stuff that will be used away from the shop at 120V, for the reason you implied.

These dual-voltage motors simply have three windings, two being run windings, and one being a starter winding. The motor wiring is configured such that each winding always sees 120V, and this is done simply by putting the two run windings in parallel for 120V operation, or series for 240V operation. The starter winding is kept in parallel with one of the run windings (usually handled internally, so you can't mess it up), so it always sees 120V, as well.

The only "down side" to running at 110V, as you can now see, is that you need to pull double the current to feed the two run windings in parallel. This is more an issue of cordage and circuit capacity, than it is for the motor. The motor will still generate the same HP, assuming you can deliver the power to the motor. Because you're pulling twice as much current, your extension cords I^2*R resistive losses are higher, and that's the down side of 110V. Also, you need to buy heavier gauge and more expensive cords, etc.

On the dust collector, I find a full-size (2.5" hose) shop vac works very well, as a dust collector for most saws. Just buy a rubber drain pipe coupling reducer, and modify to fit the saw/vacuum.


----------



## blades (Jun 26, 2013)

Check around your local shops other wise the net for a pair of or at least one stabilizer plate ( an old 5-7.25" fine tooth plywood blade with the teeth ground off works real well). Mount that on the non motor side of the arbor against the thin kerf blade and that will settle it down some. Just got to remember to use a diameter that is not going to interfer with your depth of cut.. Two plates works better, one on either side it you have enough arbor length, most do as it is less than a standard set of stack dado blades or even (heaven forbid) one of those adj. wobble dado units.    ( I am a little biased on these).


----------



## semipro (Jun 26, 2013)

blades said:


> or even (heaven forbid) one of those adj. wobble dado units. ( I am a little biased on these).


As am I.  Tried one, didn't like it.  A stacked dado setup is well worth the extra $.


----------



## HDRock (Jun 26, 2013)

lukem said:


> Had this for only a couple days, but I've used it quite a bit and so far I really like it. I didn't realize how crappy the picture above was when I posted it, but you can see that the top had some light rust. It also had a fair amount of wood glue and general crap on it. I got the big chunks off with a razor blade and cleaned the rest up with 000 steel wool and mineral spirits, followed by a light coat of paste wax. It is slicker than snot now and makes ripping and miter cuts very easy and precise.
> 
> The miter gauge that came with it is really nice...I like it a lot. I'm sure there are better ones out there, but I can't see myself needing anything more than this.
> 
> ...


Kreg makes good stuff , that's a nice miter gauge, here is the instructions http://www.kregtool.com/prodimages/kms7102 miter gauge manual.pdf
A 1.5hp I would just run it on 110.
I run one 5" dampener/stiffer  HERE  even with a standard blade unless I need the full depth of cut, definitely use one with a thin kerf, if U use two with one against the arbor it will throw off your rip fence scale.
A standerd kerf blade will do fine cutting 3/4 to 1 1/2 stock
As said a shop vac will work for dust collection , U can buy an adapter or make one out of a large plastic cup, done that


----------



## blades (Jun 27, 2013)

That Kreg miter rig is over a c note by itself new, I have one also and it is very nice.  Plus has t slots in it so you can set up/make all kinds of jigs to go with it. The ability to adjust it to fit snug in miter slot in saw table top is also a plus, most slap around a bit.


----------

