# Research Question on Franklin Stoves



## amye720 (May 10, 2020)

Hi All,

I was wondering if you could help me answer a research question: What is the date range when Sears Roebuck produced Franklin Stove model 143.433-435? I can't seem to find the dates of production of these stoves.






Thanks!


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## bholler (May 10, 2020)

amye720 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I was wondering if you could help me answer a research question: What is the date range when Sears Roebuck produced Franklin Stove model 143.433-435? I can't seem to find the dates of production of these stoves.
> 
> ...


Late 70s mainly.  Some in the early 80s.  I don't think Sears produced them.  They just had them labeled and resold them


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## peakbagger (May 10, 2020)

Do youself a favor and haul it to scrap yard.


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## amye720 (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for your responses! And yes, I've heard they are very inefficient. Luckily I don't own one, just asking for a research project. There is one installed in a 1940s house I work with, but it sounds like there is no way the stove could be original to the house if they weren't manufactured until the '70s. Thanks for your help!


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## bholler (May 13, 2020)

amye720 said:


> Thanks for your responses! And yes, I've heard they are very inefficient. Luckily I don't own one, just asking for a research project. There is one installed in a 1940s house I work with, but it sounds like there is no way the stove could be original to the house if they weren't manufactured until the '70s. Thanks for your help!


There were ones made much earlier than that.  They were originally designed in part by Benjamin Franklin.  But those were typically more ornate.  And not sold by Sears


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## coaly (May 13, 2020)

amye720 said:


> Thanks for your responses! And yes, I've heard they are very inefficient. Luckily I don't own one, just asking for a research project. There is one installed in a 1940s house I work with, but it sounds like there is no way the stove could be original to the house if they weren't manufactured until the '70s. Thanks for your help!


It depends on the fireplace in question. You posted a picture of one from the 70’s. You would need to find that model in a Sears catalog to date when they sold that model. They sold stoves much earlier than the home you’re referring to.

Named after its inventor Benjamin in 1741 there were many foundries making similar models since then. They had a swing out fireplace hook for hanging kettles, removable simmering plates for the top and screens for open fires. The Atlanta Stove Works made a Model 32 that was copied by many importers from China and Taiwan. The fireplaces sold by Sears were copies of that model as well.

So you’re researching a step above an open fireplace that allowed more heat to escape up the chimney as the fire died than they put into the building. Benjamin realized the radiation of iron would make an open masonry fireplace more efficient.
The next improvement was cast iron stoves made more air tight to control combustion, but these were cast with many parts requiring resealing of joints and rebuilding from time to time. They are still made this way today and favored by some due to their superior radiation of heat. It wasn’t until 1973 when Bob Fisher,  a laid off welder made his own steel plate welded tigetherstove that was the beginning of the next phase of stove building that was copied, modified, and took over stove sales across the US, Canada, and the rest of the world. These older stoves could not pass stricter emission standards phased into place in 1988 and many went out of business until the cleaner burning stoves we have today were invented.


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## coaly (May 13, 2020)

bholler said:


> There were ones made much earlier than that.  They were originally designed in part by Benjamin Franklin.  But those were typically more ornate.  And not sold by Sears


Ditto, as I was typing out the summary of stove development.


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## amye720 (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for all of your input--this is very helpful. This is the actual stove in the house. It looks identical to the Sears Roebuck model 143-435, and is pretty simple in style.


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## bholler (May 13, 2020)

amye720 said:


> View attachment 260167
> 
> Thanks for all of your input--this is very helpful. This is the actual stove in the house. It looks identical to the Sears Roebuck model 143-435, and is pretty simple in style.


Yeah 8 reduced down to 6 and looks like lots of clearance issues.  I would scrap it


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## begreen (May 13, 2020)

The original Franklin stove was open, no doors.




coaly said:


> It wasn’t until 1973 when Bob Fisher, a laid off welder made his own steel plate welded tigetherstove that was the beginning of the next phase of stove building that was copied, modified, and took over stove sales across the US, Canada, and the rest of the world.


I think welded steel stoves started showing up in the early 1900s. Here is one in a Tarrytown, NY  church from way back when.


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## bholler (May 13, 2020)

begreen said:


> The original Franklin stove was open, no doors.
> View attachment 260182
> 
> 
> ...


Shhhh don't tell coaly that lol.

There were tons of military stoves made from welded plate steel long before fishers as well


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## begreen (May 13, 2020)

Bob Fisher was smart. He saw what was happening with the Arab oil embargo and manufactured a marketable solution. But yes, steel had been welded into stoves long before.


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## bholler (May 13, 2020)

begreen said:


> Bob Fisher was smart. He saw what was happening with the Arab oil embargo and manufactured a marketable solution. But yes, steel had been welded into stoves long before.


Absolutely.  His designs were ok.  But his marketing and buisness plan was what made them great.


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## peakbagger (May 14, 2020)

I generally consider the Arab Oil Embargo was the second coming for wood. Many of the innovations of the 1980s had been developed in the early 1900s. Gasifers were definitely around Pre WW2.  The only completely new technologies for wood burner was catalyst technology.  Folks forget that the clean air act shut down the vast majority of local foundry's. Up until the sixties most communities had an iron foundry and casting experience was readily available. Hacking patterns from another stove wasnt that hard, so many made copies of other stoves.  Many foundry's closed about a decade before the oil embargo so when there was big demand for wood stoves, US foundries could not supply them in great quantities. Wood ahve never gone away in the Eurpean Nordic countries so they could step in to feed the market. It was logical that local welding shops would come up with plate stoves as the next best alternative.  Long before the Fisher designs, there were cheap thin wall plate and even sheetmetal stoves.  Some of them were not built for longevity. I knew several old timers who would let sheet metal stove in the house. I used to run into Ashleigh design stoves relegated to camps and garages as the fireboxes were cracked.


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## coaly (May 14, 2020)

bholler said:


> Shhhh don't tell coaly that lol.



That's it. My Fisher hat is going on eBay.


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## Osage (May 15, 2020)

begreen said:


> The original Franklin stove was open, no doors.
> View attachment 260182
> 
> 
> ...


Talk about Fire & Brimstone!


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