# Pellet stove for small cabin



## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

Hi all!
I've been researching pellet stoves for the small cabin I'm preparing to have built (in Oregon) and this forum kept coming up in the searches. What a wealth of information! So, I thought I'd register!

I'm going off-grid and will be living in my cabin on a forested mountain (smallish one, lol) full-time and year-round. The winters don't get bitterly cold. The coldest the daytime temps get would be in the high 20s at the peak of winter and the coldest night time temps would be in the teens, generally. Very, very occasionally, a night might go down to the single digits. Rarely below 0.

My cabin will be about 400 square feet. There will be a lofted bedroom. (Real bedroom, not just a sleeping loft.) Most will be open except for the bathroom and a small utility room.

When I say "off-grid," I mean that I will have a 1.8 KwH solar power system supplying my electrical needs, a cistern, and on-site septic. I'm keeping plumbing to a minimum while still having indoor facilities and conveniences. Propane range, LED lighting, etc.

I think that a pellet stove would fit into this situation better than a wood stove because of the ability to fill the hopper and have it run for longer unattended; the ability to buy tons of pellets and have that fuel source stored easily and on-hand; the thermostat capabilities; and the cleaner nature of the burn and the process.

But I really need some guidance on my choices and info on particulars. First, the particulars: I see the stove also as a backup to the gas stove for heating water and (in a rare pinch) cooking. Does the top get hot enough to boil a pot of water within, say, 10 minutes? And would it be a problem to heat water on it daily for doing dishes?

Secondly, the floor of the cabin will be OSB plywood. Does one need a purchased hearth pad under the pellet stove or will installed porcelain tile only over the plywood be fine and not a fire hazard?

Now to stove choices! I've narrowed it down to the Enviro Mini and the Heatilator PS-35 (MAYBE 50 for the hopper size). Are there any others I'm missing in the $1,800-or-less good, reliable stove category for my use?

I'm starting to lean quite a bit toward the Heatilator because it has a Medium setting and a few more automated functions/bells and whistles that I think I'd appreciate. Is that foolish?

Thanks for your help!


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## Chrisnow86 (Feb 25, 2016)

You could look into the the wiseway pellet stove it uses no power to run


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## johneh (Feb 25, 2016)

Both stoves will work for you as long as the building is sealed
and insulated .  If not go for a larger output stove.
Will you also have a generator to top up your batteries ? If you
run out of power you have no heat .
If you think you are going to cook or heat water on a pellet stove
Think again they are space heaters not cook stoves Top does not get hot enough
Good idea to put in floor protection a sheet of cement board would work
and is cheep


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## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

Chrisnow86 said:


> You could look into the the wiseway pellet stove it uses no power to run



I did, actually! It's manufactured just down the highway from my land!  I decided against it for a number of reasons. I don't mind spending some of my solar power to operate stove blowers. In the winter, I have generator backup to charge the batteries, if need be, during a string of cloudy days so it isn't an issue.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

johneh said:


> Both stoves will work for you as long as the building is sealed
> and insulated . If not go for a larger output stove.
> Will you also have a generator to top up your batteries ? If you
> run out of power you have no heat .
> ...



Thank you! Yeah, I should have been more specific. My cabin may be small but it's being built to code and will actually exceed energy efficiency. (There are grants/rebates available in the state for doing that.)

It will be wired as usual with the solar system and generator wired to the electric panel and a transfer switch by which the generator can charge my lithium battery bank and provide power. I've also sized the system adequately to allow for days of NO solar input but stored power ample to provide for the electrical needs without recharging the batteries. So, it should be fine. HOWEVER, I see that there's a battery backup available for stoves themselves. Do you think this is a good thing to do, just in case of sheer emergency?

Thanks for recommending cement board. That's exactly what I was wondering!

So, no heating water, eh? OK, good to know. Doubtful I'd need that capability as I'm having a propane range with ample propane but I like to plan backups.


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## Jack Morrissey (Feb 25, 2016)

Cabingirl said:


> Hi all!
> I've been researching pellet stoves for the small cabin I'm preparing to have built (in Oregon) and this forum kept coming up in the searches. What a wealth of information! So, I thought I'd register!
> 
> I'm going off-grid and will be living in my cabin on a forested mountain (smallish one, lol) full-time and year-round. The winters don't get bitterly cold. The coldest the daytime temps get would be in the high 20s at the peak of winter and the coldest night time temps would be in the teens, generally. Very, very occasionally, a night might go down to the single digits. Rarely below 0.
> ...


1st, welcome to the forum.  I don't know if you would get enough power to run a pellet stove off strictly solar,  I've been to Oregon a few times and I know you get alot of cloudy days.


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## Bioburner (Feb 25, 2016)

I would see if you could find a used p38 or p43 as they are hot bodied stoves that radiate some heat when in low (up to 8 k btus)and will only need to run the exhaust fan and one can place a water tank on the side for some warm water. Would have to have it made but not a hard project.
400 sq ft is not hard to heat if well insulated at all. My well insulated home uses surprisingly little here in MN


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## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

Jack Morrissey said:


> 1st, welcome to the forum. I don't know if you would get enough power to run a pellet stove off strictly solar, I've been to Oregon a few times and I know you get alot of cloudy days.



Thank you for the welcome! Yes, some of Oregon is quite cloudy/rainy but my property is in the South-Central part of the state, about 50 miles from the California border. The area gets abundant sunshine and solar is extremely popular and viable there.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

Bioburner said:


> I would see if you could find a used p38 or p43 as they are hot bodied stoves that radiate some heat when in low (up to 8 k btus)and will only need to run the exhaust fan and one can place a water tank on the side for some warm water. Would have to have it made but not a hard project.
> 400 sq ft is not hard to heat if well insulated at all. My well insulated home uses surprisingly little here in MN



Cool! What brand is the P38/43? Heatilator? There are 2 Heatilator dealers in the city closest to me. Maybe they'd be of some help.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 25, 2016)

RE: Solar. I don't want to get too involved in that since this isn't a solar forum, lol, but for discussion purposes, I'm putting in IK of panels, a 2,500-watt pure sine inverter, and 3K battery storage via lithium. My daily electric load without the stove will be approx. 900 watts. I have a portable washing machine that I'll run off the generator during the winter because the spin cycle does spike really large surge watts a few times. In the summer, when the panels are producing like mad, it won't be an issue.

Do the stove blowers kill with surge watts? That would be the only problem I could foresee and I haven't read anything in the stoves' specs that indicate anything about that.


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## FirepotPete (Feb 26, 2016)

Hi Cabingirl and welcome.

I see in your first post that you don't think going with a wood stove is what you want. But, have you looked into incorporating a rocket/hearth type stove for cooking while using the warmth of the hearth to offset the pellet stove? Also water pipes can be run through the hearth to help with hot water needs. They use very little wood, would be great in a real emergency where all the electrical may not be available for hours or days and being a small cabin might be part of the answers you are looking for.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

FirepotPete said:


> Hi Cabingirl and welcome.
> 
> I see in your first post that you don't think going with a wood stove is what you want. But, have you looked into incorporating a rocket/hearth type stove for cooking while using the warmth of the hearth to offset the pellet stove? Also water pipes can be run through the hearth to help with hot water needs. They use very little wood, would be great in a real emergency where all the electrical may not be available for hours or days and being a small cabin might be part of the answers you are looking for.



I'm likely going with a rocket stove outdoors for hot water capabilities and such AFTER the cabin has been inspected and we're all legal.  Oregon building and environmental codes are quite stringent.

There are also some really nifty little wood furnaces that I could put out near my carport and put in a protected shelter of sorts and connect to ductwork in my cabin. BUT, they're not EPA-approved so I can't use them to heat the cabin. (Read, I can't have one as a primary heat source during the inspection process.) The big'uns that are or meet Oregon code are WAY too big and expensive for my use.

However, once everything is all legal, I will look at a little wood-burning furnace or rocket stove outdoors, for backup and hot water. It wouldn't serve to have a supplemental wood-burning stove providing hot water INSIDE because I don't want to heat up the cabin in the summer. Especially since I can use the sun to heat water then.


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## TonyVideo (Feb 26, 2016)

400sqft is small. I think a pellet stove will run you out on the lowest setting. Even using a thermostat once it reaches temp and shuts off the residual heat will still raise the Temps even further until cool down. Why not use a small vented propane heater?


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

Let me ask another question, since electricity seems to be a common question from those who so kindly responded! Does one HAVE to use blower(s)? The Enviro Mini was recommended to me by a cabin friend because he said the blower can be shut off. I've seen fans that use no energy except the stove's heat to run and distribute heat. Do those really work? (There are battery-operated fans, too.)

The bottom line is that any source of heat is going to need electricity for a fan or blower of some sort to circulate heat. A propane heater using priezo ignition and a battery-operated fan wouldn't, but I'm not keen on using those types of heaters for a constant winter heat source. So, either I have to increase my solar power/gen backup if the consensus is it wouldn't be adequate or I need to adjust the stove usage in some manner.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

TonyVideo said:


> 400sqft is small. I think a pellet stove will run you out on the lowest setting. Even using a thermostat once it reaches temp and shuts off the residual heat will still raise the Temps even further until cool down. Why not use a small vented propane heater?



Mostly because I don't want to add a second propane appliance and have to store gas, as I'd have to do with 2 appliances living on a mountain in the winter. The range uses a barbecue tank and it lasts for a couple of months. That's easy. But a second -- and one for heat -- would require more gas storage if I couldn't get deliveries during bad weather or I couldn't get off the mountain to at least refill a few barbecue tanks if it was possible to hook up a propane heater to those. In case of forest fire, I don't want a lot of gas stored onsite. A barbecue tank can be disconnected and dealt with. Not so easy with a large tank.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

TonyVideo, That is why I think a pellet stove trumps a wood stove, though. I could go from sweltering to freezing with a wood stove too easily. There would definitely be a learning curve with even a small pellet stove but at least there's a thermostat. The cabin's footprint is 400 sq. ft. but there is a second floor and it's more than half-open. (Picture a 160 sq. ft. loft on one side of the cabin and the rest open with a cathedral ceiling.) I may need a solar ceiling fan up there to push down some of the heat.


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## rich2500 (Feb 26, 2016)

running a pellet stove off a thermostat to cycle off and on is going to use a lot of power for each restart cycle( some ignitors draw 400 watts ) so you want to be looking for a stove that when the call for temp is reached the stove will then idle to the lowest setting.


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## bogieb (Feb 26, 2016)

Cabingirl said:


> Let me ask another question, since electricity seems to be a common question from those who so kindly responded! Does one HAVE to use blower(s)? The Enviro Mini was recommended to me by a cabin friend because he said the blower can be shut off. I've seen fans that use no energy except the stove's heat to run and distribute heat. Do those really work? (There are battery-operated fans, too.)
> 
> The bottom line is that any source of heat is going to need electricity for a fan or blower of some sort to circulate heat. A propane heater using priezo ignition and a battery-operated fan wouldn't, but I'm not keen on using those types of heaters for a constant winter heat source. So, either I have to increase my solar power/gen backup if the consensus is it wouldn't be adequate or I need to adjust the stove usage in some manner.



Sounds like quite the adventure!

You asked earlier what a P38/P43 was and I didn't see where anyone had answered (I may have missed it) - it is a Harman. Although expensive to buy new, you might be able to find a newish used one at a decent price (don't let me scare you away from a Harman - I just have no idea what your budget is). I keep a pan of water on top of my P43 and it gets pretty warm - not boiling, but warm enough that you would need to add some cold water for a sponge bath. You can turn off the room blower, or at least have that effect, by the setting you used. It will always have the exhaust blower going when the stove is warm.

The P43 heats my 950 sq/ft main floor nicely. It also radiates heat for quite a while even when the stove is off.

The fans that use no electricity, that I have experience with, work pretty well on a wood stove. I don't know how they would work on a pellet stove though.

Good luck!


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

This really IS an adventure, guys -- an adventure in almost never-ending problem-solving, lol. Once all of the pieces are put right and fit together, living off-grid will be amazing. Until then, a lot of brain power and creativity is needed. Thanks for thinking with me and offering input and suggestions. It is really appreciated!

One of the biggest frustrations I've encountered is that companies aren't clear on true electrical operating requirements. I've mostly seen "start up" and "run" electrical use provided in amps. That's not terribly meaningful. I need watts or watt hours. That's why I could be woefully underestimating just how much electricity the stoves will use. Then there are surge watts and continuous watts, sigh.

Earlier in the thread, I dismissed the Wiseway. I'd been told by a few people that there were user problems with it early on and I can't find anything online regarding user experiences, any tweaks, or whether initial problems had been worked out. While I find the stove itself rather awful in appearance, lol, if I know that it actually PERFORMS really well, then I'd be happy to consider it, especially since it's manufactured in my neck of the woods and doesn't use a watt of electricity. (Another drawback is that, according to the website, it requires several feet of vertical stovepipe and chimney above the roofline, just like a wood stove, plus professional installation. Bummer.)


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## Bioburner (Feb 26, 2016)

Sorry I forgot to state the manufacture of the p series. Bedtime in the valley.

A small propane stove like one I use for backup and installed for my Mother last fall may be considered as is needs no electricity although won't get the optimum efficiency out of it.
Propane storage does not need to be above ground as they are now installing underground tanks negating fears of fire and the sight of the above ground tank. We still have gas providers that exchange 100lb tanks(20 gallon) for home owners in our state.

No one has mentioned a fuel oil stove either. There was a nice looking stove that someone posted a picture of and it needed no electricity. Very similar to a Jungers parlor stove. There is also a fireplace version fuel oil stove popular with dear hunting camps.


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## bogieb (Feb 26, 2016)

Spupilup has a Wiseway. You might try contacting him for his experience. Here is a short thread he started.


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## PinetreePellets (Feb 26, 2016)

Welcome Cabingirl. I have 2 quadrafire AE stoves, they offer battery backup, self cleaning burner pots, low maintenance. Mine are in the 60k BTU range. As far as electricity requirements I can hook my watt meter to see what draw during ignition and when the blower kicks on high, just to give you an idea of my particular stove.

Quadrafire and Harmon are owned by the same company so stoves are probably comparable http://www.hearthnhome.com/Brands


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## rich2500 (Feb 26, 2016)

Here is the oil stove bogie referenced
https://www.kumastoves.com/Content/Page/oil-stove


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## bogieb (Feb 26, 2016)

rich2500 said:


> Here is the oil stove bogie referenced
> https://www.kumastoves.com/Content/Page/oil-stove


Bioburner


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## rich2500 (Feb 26, 2016)

Whoops


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## pete7713 (Feb 26, 2016)

Cabingirl said:


> Hi all!
> I've been researching pellet stoves for the small cabin I'm preparing to have built (in Oregon) and this forum kept coming up in the searches. What a wealth of information! So, I thought I'd register!
> 
> I'm going off-grid and will be living in my cabin on a forested mountain (smallish one, lol) full-time and year-round. The winters don't get bitterly cold. The coldest the daytime temps get would be in the high 20s at the peak of winter and the coldest night time temps would be in the teens, generally. Very, very occasionally, a night might go down to the single digits. Rarely below 0.
> ...



I have a mini. It has a built in hearth pad, hopper holds 48 lbs, have 5 heating levels. I have no problem heating 1500 sq ft with it [ open floor plan]. If you use a thermostat you can set it to idle until heat is called for or shut down after 30 minutes than restart.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

bogieb said:


> Spupilup has a Wiseway. You might try contacting him for his experience. Here is a short thread he started.



Thank you! I've been reading the Wiseway posts!

Don't know if it's a good or bad thing that US Stove has bought Wiseway, sigh, but I noticed it's on the Home Depot website for my store in Oregon.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

PinetreePellets said:


> Welcome Cabingirl. I have 2 quadrafire AE stoves, they offer battery backup, self cleaning burner pots, low maintenance. Mine are in the 60k BTU range. As far as electricity requirements I can hook my watt meter to see what draw during ignition and when the blower kicks on high, just to give you an idea of my particular stove.



Thank you so much! Wow, if you could do that, I would appreciate it immensely!

I've read that the Heatilator and Quadra use many of the same parts. So would it be safe to consider that the electric draw on the baby Heatilator (PS35) would be pretty much the same or less?


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

pete7713 said:


> I have a mini. It has a built in hearth pad, hopper holds 48 lbs, have 5 heating levels. I have no problem heating 1500 sq ft with it [ open floor plan]. If you use a thermostat you can set it to idle until heat is called for or shut down after 30 minutes than restart.



How is it on electricity usage? Is it true that you can do some functions manually and shut off the blower without a problem to save electricity? I read the manual online but found it to be a bit confusing.


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## Chrisnow86 (Feb 26, 2016)

I think in your situation a stove that requires no electricity to run would be best.. A lot less stress about batter back up or generators.. When your sleeping and it is the coldest your wont have to worry about power usage.. The stove will run..


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

I really don't want to do fossil fuels for heat. It kind of defeats the purpose for going off-grid, philosophically.  ESPECIALLY in Oregon, where wood products are the bread and butter of the local economy and measures are in place to operate responsibly and sustainably. We have an abundance of softwood and hardwood pellet producers. I have to cave to do propane for my range and gas for a generator at the moment but I plan to build up my array and battery storage over time to the point where it can support a convection oven and store more energy for a week. Technologically, we're getting there but haven't quite arrived. Panels have come way down in price and lithium battery storage is the future. The capacity just isn't quite there yet and, being new, the cost is still rather high. I can do one 3 Kw battery now. I hope to add another in parallel or see what larger options may come available. I've read that the Tesla Powerwall has stalled, unfortunately.

But I digress ...


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## Cabingirl (Feb 26, 2016)

Chrisnow86 said:


> I think in your situation a stove that requires no electricity to run would be best.. A lot less stress about batter back up or generators.. When your sleeping and it is the coldest your wont have to worry about power usage.. The stove will run..



I think you're right. I'm reading more and more about the Wiseway and I *think* that some of the problems folks have had stemmed from burning softwood pellets. It seems like problems have been worked out and the stove was kind of designed for PNW/Oregon fuel. Since I'm in Oregon, that won't be a problem. Juniper and Ponderosa Pine grow like weeds and the pellet prices are quite good.


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## Bioburner (Feb 26, 2016)

I hope the that Wiseway won't find its way to being manufactured in China as it seems a lot of USSC are going. I did see a nice rocket cook stove manufactured in China that I would like to see in person. It would not take much IMO to make a hybrid electric auger fed pellet rocket stove mass heater.
Another off grid stove if they are still being made is the Avent pellet stove. 12 volt, combo room fan and exhaust fan with a auger feed.


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## Bioburner (Feb 26, 2016)

Another option for those cold nights


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## pete7713 (Feb 26, 2016)

Cabingirl said:


> How is it on electricity usage? Is it true that you can do some functions manually and shut off the blower without a problem to save electricity? I read the manual online but found it to be a bit confusing.



184 watts max.    600 watts  during ignition.  room blower can be turned off.  you can manually light a stove than use it on high - low if you don't want to use the ignitor to save electricity.  you will probably never use the maximum 184 watts using it on high heating 400 sq feet. i don't know much about solar panels but if you got a few cloudy days would you have enough electricity to run any stove?


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## Spupilup (Feb 26, 2016)

Cabingirl, I own a Wiseway stove and all I can tell you is they work great.  Every complaint I've read about the newer stoves tends to revolve around using the wrong fuel, poor installation or some other user error.  

For example:

There was a recent post on the Google Group Wiseway forum from a guy complaining about having to alway tend to the stove.  Well, there were two clear reasons why he was having problems.  First, he was burning hardwood pellets (not necessarily a no no on its own) and second, was using the wrong secondary burn tray.  The stove comes with a secondary burn tray for use with softwood pellets.  Using the wrong pellets with the wrong tray will cause you to have to clear the tray more frequently.

I took it to heart when I read that the created designed the stove using softwood pellets, particularly Doug Fir.  So, before I made my purchase I made sure i could get DF pellets.  Problem #1 solved.  The stove, with either DF or Spruce pellets from Okanagan, burns exceptionally well for days and days on end.  The temperature from the DF's is a good 50-75 degrees hotter than what I get from the Spruce.  I also don't have to worry about cleaning out the ash tray because with DF, for all practical purposes, there is no ash.

Now, the other major advantage in your off the grid situation would be the water jacket that can be installed on the back of the WIseway.  It can provide heated water for a variety of purposes right on down to serving as a water heater for your cabin during the cold months.  It can be used as a distiller. you can cook with it, the options, espcially for someone off the grid are limitless.

Concern about installation is over the top.  I went with Venti double wall venting.  It was much more expensive that Duravent or similar but if you choose one of the cheaper brands available from Home Depot and the like, you can save enough money and do it right.

To me, the last thing someone living off the grid would want to do is tie themselves to reliance on any more electrical generation than I absolutely needed.  Heck you can even get a couple of Ecofans to help spread the heat (though in 400 square feet I doubt you're really need one), again, with absolutely no electrical use whatsoever.

Frankly; for your purposes, the last thing I would want to do is tie myself to a pellet stove that needed electricity.  I'd take a woodstove (in fact I did for 28 years before finding the Wiseway) over an electric pellet stove any day of the week.

I could go on but you get my drift.


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## Spupilup (Feb 26, 2016)

One last thing I forgot.  With the Wiseway you get a 60 pound hopper.  With either the DF or Spruce, on low (all you'll likely need with your space) you'll get well over 24 hours out of that hopper, probably closer to 30 hours.  It's efficient, clean and reliable.


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## Chrisnow86 (Feb 26, 2016)

So I was right... I was the first person to suggest a wiseway... My wife never says I'm right so this is a first


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## Bioburner (Feb 26, 2016)

Spupilup said:


> One last thing I forgot.  With the Wiseway you get a 60 pound hopper.  With either the DF or Spruce, on low (all you'll likely need with your space) you'll get well over 24 hours out of that hopper, probably closer to 30 hours.  It's efficient, clean and reliable.


So at 2 pounds an hour=16,000 btus and say 20% loss leave about 13k, Thats alot of heat yet.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 27, 2016)

Bioburner said:


> Another option for those cold nights


Haha, have 3, including an English bulldog that I wonder what the deer and other wildlife will make of. I'm calling her "the mythical pig-dog of the forest."


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## Cabingirl (Feb 27, 2016)

Spupilup said:


> Now, the other major advantage in your off the grid situation would be the water jacket that can be installed on the back of the WIseway.  It can provide heated water for a variety of purposes right on down to serving as a water heater for your cabin during the cold months.  It can be used as a distiller. you can cook with it, the options, espcially for someone off the grid are limitless..



Spupilup,
Thank you for responding! I've been reading the posts about the Wiseway and was going to ask you some questions!

I'm very much interested in the water jacket and other uses. How do you figure out how to use them, though? There aren't any instructions on the Wiseway website and the PDF manual is pretty bad. Very disjointed at times. Is there a thermostat in the Wiseway? Do you have to shut it down when the house gets to warm or will it shut down automatically? Does shutting it down and restarting it, say, twice per day waste a lot of pellets or no? With the size of my cabin, I'd think that I could shut it down because even low would get too much if it ran constantly. Is it possible to fit it with a thermostat if it doesn't have one?

Since there aren't a lot of diagrams and pictures of the stove, it's difficult to see all of the parts that comprise it -- any dials, controls, etc. Are there independent sites that show this? Oh, and what exactly does the "distiller" do? Heh, I've got Juniper trees (and berries) on my land so I guess I could make gin? 

Living in Oregon, I'll have a lot of sources for premium local pellets and different types of softwood available. (Oddly enough, I thought that Douglas Fir was more of a hardwood or, at least, medium.) In the southern part of the state, we have a lot of Ponderosa Pine and Juniper.

I hope that US Stove doesn't ruin the stove or move the production and jobs out of Medford, OR. But I do hope they improve the manual and written materials!


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## Monica in France (Feb 27, 2016)

I think that rich2500 has identified the main problem.
If your Cabin is well insulated your problem will be the *minimum* setting on the stove.
When it's cold there is no problem , but when you need just a little heating , below the minimum setting , a pellet stove has two alternatives
A:    close down and re-ignite later.
B:    go into a 'special mode'.
If you choose the former you are probably wise to have a spare 'candle' and know how to fit it.
(That said I have not seen any figures relating to the number of times they should light the pellets before failure.)
In the latter case , the algorithm used by the stove of your choice can not be worse than the one in my stove
which seems to use even more pellets and burns 'dirty' into the bargain.

I solve the problem by setting the thermostat higher and removing my pullover.


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## Wilbur Feral (Feb 27, 2016)

Just a couple of thoughts:  

A few posts back you commented that perhaps a Heatilator and Quad MT Vernon AE had similar power consumption.  Very likely NOT the case.  The MVAE is a unique stove for Quad, that uses DC motors.  Much lower power consumption than other stoves, even in their lineup.  However, it is also a very sophisticated stove that is more likely to require professional repair, very unique parts, etc.  Far from ideal as a single, sole heat source.  And yes, I own one.   Good stove, but I would not use in your situation.

In later posts you ask several questions about starting/stopping stove due to overheating concerns, and doing so via thermostat. You are missing a couple of basic concepts that are especially important in your situation.  First, the Wiseway is a non-electric stove, so as I see it YOU will be lighting it every time, not a thermostat.  I definitely like the concept of a non-electric stove for off grid, but you give up some of the conveniences provided by electricity.

The other thing to understand is that use of the ignitor to start most pellet stoves (the convenience of the thermostat) is THE major user of electricity on many stoves, taking 300-400 watts for about 10-15 minutes, with each start.  That will kill your battery backup very quickly in an off grid situation.

Sorry to be a bit of a downer, but realism is important.  Also, I wondered what your plan is for being away for a couple of days during cold weather?  With indoor plumbing, what happens when it's a rare 10-15 degree low, and you want to be away for a long weekend or for a visit somewhere, even if just due to illness?  How do you keep the pipes from freezing?  Or what happens if you need to wait three days for a pellet stove part? (most anyone who has one has had to do this after a few years). To be a little bit frank, I see some failure points in your plan that really do need to be addressed.


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## Jim H. (Feb 27, 2016)

maybe a small pot belly wood stove could be a great backup just in case.....?


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## Lake Girl (Feb 27, 2016)

cabingirl, there is the green room that quite frequently has discussions on solar arrays ... most of the forum members that have them use them as a feed-in system though.  I recall one member saying his output was surprisingly good in the winter due to better conductivity in colder temps.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/forums/the-green-room.11/


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## Cabingirl (Feb 27, 2016)

Jim H. said:


> maybe a small pot belly wood stove could be a great backup just in case.....?



Yes, I'll have a small woodburner outside to duct in for emergencies. I have a model in mind and instructions from someone who has done just that. I can't do it right off the bat because it's not EPA-approved and, thus, not legal. So, it can only be a backup and it has to be configured after the inspectors sign off on my build.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 27, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> cabingirl, there is the green room that quite frequently has discussions on solar arrays ... most of the forum members that have them use them as a feed-in system though.  I recall one member saying his output was surprisingly good in the winter due to better conductivity in colder temps.
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/forums/the-green-room.11/



Yes, panels are more efficient in cooler temps! And when sunlight reflects off snow, a LOT of energy is produced!  Thanks for the "green" link!


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## Cabingirl (Feb 27, 2016)

Wilbur Feral said:


> Just a couple of thoughts:
> 
> A few posts back you commented that perhaps a Heatilator and Quad MT Vernon AE had similar power consumption.  Very likely NOT the case.  The MVAE is a unique stove for Quad, that uses DC motors.  Much lower power consumption than other stoves, even in their lineup.  However, it is also a very sophisticated stove that is more likely to require professional repair, very unique parts, etc.  Far from ideal as a single, sole heat source.  And yes, I own one.   Good stove, but I would not use in your situation.
> 
> ...



I know that the Wiseway is non-electric and I may not be using correct terms for the mechanics of the thing. I didn't expect it to have a programmable thermostat like the electric models do but the manual states that you need to raise the temperature inside to a certain number to ignite the pellets (it's manual ignition by a handheld propane torch) so there must be something inside of it that indicates internal temperature. I'm also wondering how you set it on High or Low, because apparently you can. There aren't clear diagrams of any of this in the only manual I've found online. I'm needing more info and if I can or need to hook up a thermostat or temperature gauge of some sort to it.

Also, the Wiseway is manufactured literally an hour from my property. Parts and service are available locally. When you live remote, you have replacement parts on hand, anyway, and you learn to do things yourself or have go-to people in your circle who can help you out. Those of us who are committed to off-grid living have backups to our backups and try to keep everything as simple as possible. That's the whole point of the lifestyle.  The reason I'm here asking about pellet stoves is that I assemble as much information as possible before I decide, buy, and do.

Make no mistake, if it weren't for state law and EPA requirements, I would simply have a small outdoor wood-burning furnace connected to ductwork in the cabin, control the burn outside, and the heat inside through registers. But I can't legally. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I do plan to have a rocket stove or wood-burning furnace as a backup after the cabin is inspected and all is well. But it won't pass inspection unless I have a properly installed, EPA-approved heat source inside the cabin. Hence, the pellet stove. Other backups include generator-run space heaters and small indoor approved propane heater connected to a barbecue tank.

Regarding plumbing. Crawl-space pillow cistern, RV pump to kitchen faucet, all with disconnection capability for periods away, if necessary. The shower is not plumbed in. Rather, it's a Zodi Outback within a shower stall. Bathroom basin is a simple faucet with built-in pump from small 5-gallon tank in the vanity. Again, one disconnects if away. There is no water heater. In the winter, water is heated on the range. In the spring-summer-fall, in a solar tank. A small off-grid cabin winterizes similarly to an RV if one is away. RV antifreeze in the drains to prevent freezing and disconnecting water appliances.

Many off-grid folks use a wood stove for heat. I prefer a pellet stove -- even a non-electric one -- for the ability to load up the hopper, set the stove on low, and not have to reload it every 6 hours to have heat. If I can, indeed, get 30 hours out of the Wiseway hopper, then the cabin would stay reasonably warm if I had to go away for an overnight.


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## Bioburner (Feb 28, 2016)

Maybe a visit to where they sell the Wiseway would be the most beneficial. The need to get to temp has to do with draft needs much like a fireplace, without proper draft the fire just smokes and won't draw up the flue. The needs of fire as explained to firefighters, is like a triangle. Needs enough heat to sustain fire, about 600 or so for wood, air- breath of the dragon and of course fuel. I understand fire in many forms and can't get into that here.


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## JayB (Feb 28, 2016)

I have a cabin that is off-grid in southern Colorado I have a four burner propane stove and a propane heat stove I use 40lbs propane tanks on each. The heat stove uses no power it is thermostatic control, I set it for about 65 degrees because the loft gets warmer hot air rises. Do you plan to use solar hot water like the one on my roof.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 28, 2016)

Bioburner said:


> Maybe a visit to where they sell the Wiseway would be the most beneficial. The need to get to temp has to do with draft needs much like a fireplace, without proper draft the fire just smokes and won't draw up the flue. The needs of fire as explained to firefighters, is like a triangle. Needs enough heat to sustain fire, about 600 or so for wood, air- breath of the dragon and of course fuel. I understand fire in many forms and can't get into that here.



Yes, definitely. Establishing a relationship with a seller and even the designer himself who lives locally would be aces. I get what you're saying about heat temperature and fire. The manual clumsily states that in the startup instructions, that you have to heat the burn area in stages with the propane torch to certain degrees. Which is why I wonder if there's a temperature gauge or some sort of internal thermostat inside that indicates when you've done the job and it's ready or you have to measure it somehow yourself. That part isn't explained.


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## Bioburner (Feb 28, 2016)

Welcome to the world of manuals. I like when manufactures provide online video media as it often can clear the air on many things. When I serviced stoves I often found the manual still sealed in the plastic sleeves.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 28, 2016)

JayB said:


> I have a cabin that is off-grid in southern Colorado I have a four burner propane stove and a propane heat stove I use 40lbs propane tanks on each. The heat stove uses no power it is thermostatic control, I set it for about 65 degrees because the loft gets warmer hot air rises. Do you plan to use solar hot water like the one on my roof.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you have any sort of fan or solar vents in the loft to help with air circulation? I'll have windows, of course, but I'm considering a solar fan and vents.

The cabin is small and I will be the only permanent resident so I'm keeping things simple because my needs will be. My solar hot water will simply consist of a small black tank (about 30 gallons) to heat water during the day since my hot water usage comes in the evening for dishes and showering. It's not going to be plumbed in.

Here's the thing: I'm not keen on fossil fuels. With my location prime for solar (and potentially wind), I'd rather start basic and thrifty on my electric usage until I see how it goes, how efficient my batteries and panels do, and how the technology continues to evolve. I can add solar panels and batteries over time to increase my power generation and storage to the point where I can run electric appliances for many days without solar input and very little or no need for the generator to charge. To me, that's good value. The new lithium batteries last a decade, have a deep discharge capability and are very efficient. I expect that will get even better and they will get less expensive. Other technologies for battery storage are being studied, too.

So, I'd rather not put that money into installing a fossil fuel heat source now when I will have my own alternative energy, micro-power plant over time and won't have to have to be as watt-conscious. (If the Wiseway works for me in the longterm, even better!) Pellets are plentiful and use wood scrap from other wood industries. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm kind of a hippy, lol.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 28, 2016)

Bioburner said:


> Welcome to the world of manuals. I like when manufactures provide online video media as it often can clear the air on many things. When I serviced stoves I often found the manual still sealed in the plastic sleeves.



LOL! I'm such a nerd. I read the manuals online before I buy products to help me decide and then I read the manual after my purchase, too.

Especially with this offgrid adventure, I pore over the literature. It's prevented me from making some pretty big mistakes before shelling out cash. I've found that energy usage information on small things can be difficult to find, though. And, geez, the small appliances can really use a lot!


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## Spupilup (Feb 28, 2016)

Cabingirl, youtube is your friend.  Try doing a search there and you will see MANY videos about the Wiseway ranging from  setting it up to using it, to using the water jacket to just about any other question you may have.  Add that to the fact that the largest dealer is in Grants Pass.  Probably not all that far from you.  A visit to Smokey's Stoves in Grants Pass should provide a wealth of information about owning and operating these stoves.  Before I purchased mine I read and viewed everything I could about Wiseway.  It gets pretty cold in the Litchfield Hills of CT and my only alternative for heat is electric.  It was a big leap for me to go from burning cord wood where, in an emergency I could cut down an Ash tree use it that night, to becoming reliant on a pellet stove.  

It seems like an awful lot of the people burning pellet stoves on this bulletin board use their stoves to augment oil, gas or some other form of heat.  I don't have that choice.  Coming to the close of my first season with this stove I feel that I couldn't have made a better choice.  For someone looking to live "off the grid," frankly, I can't even imagine the idea of the electric pellet stoves even entering into the equation.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 28, 2016)

Spupilup said:


> Cabingirl, youtube is your friend.  Try doing a search there and you will see MANY videos about the Wiseway ranging from  setting it up to using it, to using the water jacket to just about any other question you may have.  Add that to the fact that the largest dealer is in Grants Pass.  Probably not all that far from you.  A visit to Smokey's Stoves in Grants Pass should provide a wealth of information about owning and operating these stoves.  Before I purchased mine I read and viewed everything I could about Wiseway.  It gets pretty cold in the Litchfield Hills of CT and my only alternative for heat is electric.  It was a big leap for me to go from burning cord wood where, in an emergency I could cut down an Ash tree use it that night, to becoming reliant on a pellet stove.
> 
> It seems like an awful lot of the people burning pellet stoves on this bulletin board use their stoves to augment oil, gas or some other form of heat.  I don't have that choice.  Coming to the close of my first season with this stove I feel that I couldn't have made a better choice.  For someone looking to live "off the grid," frankly, I can't even imagine the idea of the electric pellet stoves even entering into the equation.



Thanks! I'll check out YouTube!

Smokey's Stoves has a number of locations in southern Oregon and I'm very close to one of them.   (But not Grant's Pass.) I believe another stove dealership in town also carries the Wiseway. Makes sense, it being a local product and all. I hope the US Stove takeover doesn't cheapen the build and move production out of southern Oregon. All the more important to buy it as soon as possible, along with the accessories and some replacement parts, too.

I'm having the cabin built in late Spring and would like to have the contractor factor the venting and outside air kit holes into construction AND install the stove for me. I think you have a better result and better fit that way than cutting and retrofitting after the fact.


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## Cabingirl (Feb 28, 2016)

Just took a look at the Wiseway at the Home Depot site and US Stove DID redo the manual and instructions, to include better diagrams, a parts list, etc. It is SO much more clear now and full of helpful info! Some good questions/answers and reviews, too.


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## SKOAL MAN (Mar 1, 2016)

I can't for the life of me figure out why you wouldn't use propane? Fill a couple 100lb tanks a couple times a year, done!


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## 3650 (Mar 1, 2016)

Plenty of gravity feed pellet stoves being built on You tube. If you have some skills (even minor) you could fab up something that works as good as Wiseway and save a few thousand $.


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## byQ (Mar 3, 2016)

Cabingirl  meet Cabin Stove. It happens to originate in Eugene, Oregon. I grew up in Coos Bay, Oregon but now live in Idaho. The cabin stove is using masonry heater/rocket heater technology. It provides radiant heat (like the sun) so it is less likely to overheat a small space. And no electricity is involved. I don't know about code issues. I'm building a masonry heater and the building department has approved it. I wouldn't mind having the cabin stove, though - you can cook on it. But that is a lot of heat the metal top has to deal with.


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## Simpleacres (Mar 3, 2016)

Empire Masonry heaters has an Ultimate Survival model heater that will not only heat the home but has an oven and a large cast iron cooktop. I have installed one in a kitchen showroom and it sees lots of abuse without warping or leaking.


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