# Ridged foam



## livefreeordie (Dec 23, 2010)

Any advice on how to install ridged foam on my basement walls? (interior) Will it help keep the basement warmer or is it a waste of time and money

Thanks


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## Beetle-Kill (Dec 23, 2010)

This is an area I'm looking into also. What type of board are you putting up, and what thickness? Do you plan to cover it after it's installed? Do you plan on putting nailer boards up before you finish it? Are your walls solid formed concrete, hollow CMU, or filled CMU walls? I'm finding out all types of information based on my walls- half filled CMU, half formed concrete. Yep, my house is a little screwy. I'm also looking at injected Icenene(?) after the interior walls are blocked and built.


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## CALJREICH (Dec 23, 2010)

It should keep the basement warmer.  Are you just wanting to insulate the wall or are you planning to finish the basement? If your not planning on finishing it you could probably glue board onto the walls. 
 If your woodstove is in the basement it will increase the effiency of the stove I think. Unfinished basements are particularly bad locations for wood stoves because too much of the heat is absorbed by the walls and lost to the outside. So if you insulate the walls you may burn less wood and have a warmer basement.


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## semipro (Dec 23, 2010)

Good article from Building Science Corp on this topic here: 

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0309-renovating-your-basment/at_download/file


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## daveswoodhauler (Dec 23, 2010)

+1 on the articles from Building Science that Semi pointed out....Lots of excellent articles on all the do's/dont's regarding insulation.
For my basement reno I'm going with 1" rigid foam on the walls....just using adhesive to apply. Then using 1/2" on the floor to give it a bit of insulation.
Going to frame the walls about 1" off the foam to allow an air space and then use R13 bats in between the studs.


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## velvetfoot (Dec 23, 2010)

I have done this but I am not finished yet (very slow).
What's usually, done, I've read, for a cold place like NH, would be 2" of XPS foam on wall, stud wall in front of that and insulation in that (no vapaor barrier).
What I did was glue 2" of xps on the wall.  Attach furring strips into by screws into hammer drilled holes.  Tyveck the joints.  THEN, in a move that I invented, lol, I milled out grooves with a wobble dado blade in 2" xps foam boards and glued them onto the first layer, so that there it was flat. On the outside.  Very solid.

For wires, on the first layer I used a router with a half inch bit to locate the wiring.  I think I screwed in firring strip blocks for the electrical boxes, but it's been so long, I forget, lol.

As far as gluing, I used PL300 polyurethane glue.  You don't want to use anything with petroleum in it because that will eat the foam (really, it does, I know).  The first layer I held the sheets up with my hands for a while til it stuck.  I was trying to think of a jig or something that would provide even pressure, but I never came up with anything.  On the second layer I think I used Gorilla glue, which is polyurethane, and is a lot thinner than the PL300, plus I was sticking foam on foam.  I used the fact that the furring strips were up and temporarily screwed in boards to hold the second layer to the first layer.

Still don't have the sheetrock up.  I know I'm bad.  Hopefully this winter after (and if) the leg feels better.

Anyway, it's not that efficient, but it's what I did.

Don't forget to insulate the rim joist area.

It's definitely warmer down there.


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## Huskyforlife (Dec 23, 2010)

1x3 firring strips with Tapcon screws.  Then anchor drywall to the firring strips as well (need to cover per Code).   Tape joints with Foil Tape.


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## semipro (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm in the process of adding insulation to my basement also.  When I do this I plan to use the paperless sheetrock that's now available (e.g., DensArmor).  I've been thinking of using composite or metal studs also.  All this to prevent any mold growth.

What I'd really like to find is less expensive source of foam board.  The prices at my local home centers seem exorbitant.


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## Huskyforlife (Dec 23, 2010)

FYI, if you haven't already maxed out your $5000 energy tax credit, you have until the end of the year to get 30% back on all insulation.  Next year, it's only 10%.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

CALJREICH said:
			
		

> It should keep the basement warmer.  Are you just wanting to insulate the wall or are you planning to finish the basement? If your not planning on finishing it you could probably glue board onto the walls.
> If your woodstove is in the basement it will increase the effiency of the stove I think. Unfinished basements are particularly bad locations for wood stoves because too much of the heat is absorbed by the walls and lost to the outside. So if you insulate the walls you may burn less wood and have a warmer basement.



Half of the basement was finished by the PO, the other side is used for washer/dryer and tools. i won't finish that side just foam the walls and spray foam the ban joist's.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

All good info, thanks for the help. I'm going to use 2" foam from Lowes and glue it to the walls after I prep the wall of course. Now that we have the pellet stove we don't use the furnace anymore and the basement gets down to 45 degrees so the foam should help allot.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

Semipro said:
			
		

> Good article from Building Science Corp on this topic here:
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> http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0309-renovating-your-basment/at_download/file



Thanks for the link, that's good stuff.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

Hey my house is on a slate foundation with a dirt floor. Previous owner put up 1x3 nailers and vapor barrier on the walls. The areas around the foundation has been stuffed with pink insulation. 
I am not sure if it would help my situation to insulate the walls with still having a dirt floor. Comments/ thoughts ???


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

My concern would be how much humidity you have in the basement with a dirt floor. My level is always 45 - 50% because we have a dehumidifier.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

The only thing in the basement is the oil tank, furnace and electric hot water heater. We do have plans to finish the floor off, but that stuff is almost as hard as the slate foundation! Some sort of clay or mix of dirt, pita. I want to go down 2 - 3" to level it, put in a stone bed and poor 3" of ready mix or concrete on top of it.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

That sounds like a big project.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> That sounds like a big project.


Yeah, it is. But I am afraid if I just dump stone/ gravel in there to level it and then add 3" of concrete, I will not even have 6 ft of head space. Plus I would have to frame out around the tank, furnace and h/w heater.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

That's the one thing i don't like with my house. The ceiling height in the basement is only six foot. At least you have to chance to get a decent height in your basement. I'm a big DIY guy so i would tackel a job like that.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> That's the one thing i don't like with my house. The ceiling height in the basement is only six foot. At least you have to chance to get a decent height in your basement. I'm a big DIY guy so i would tackel a job like that.



Oh, we are going to do it one way or another. It may take a pick axe and jack hammer and 5 gallons buckets of dirt. But it will get done!


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

lol, thats how i am. Its worth it in the long run.


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## dave11 (Dec 24, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> Any advice on how to install ridged foam on my basement walls? (interior) Will it help keep the basement warmer or is it a waste of time and money
> 
> Thanks



If your basement is fully below grade, you would not need as high an R value as you would want in the other walls of your home. The earth is a pretty good insulator below the upper two feet of soil. But getting R10 in your walls would be a good idea. Usually you would not want a vapor barrier, based on modern recommendations. 

You could use 2 inch thick foamular or similar, with furring strips. That would be cheapest and take up the least amount of floorspace. If you want  more substantial walls, you could put one inch thick foam over the walls directly, then frame a stud wall tight to that. No need for adhesive. I am personally against leaving any space for air to get into in a basement wall. Too easy to get condensation, bugs, or mice in the protected spaces.  

Your basement will be much warmer.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

Ok, here's another question. The po's insulated the ceiling in the basement, if I insulate the walls do I need to remove the ceiling insulation or can I leave it there?


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## dave11 (Dec 24, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> Ok, here's another question. The po's insulated the ceiling in the basement, if I insulate the walls do I need to remove the ceiling insulation or can I leave it there?



If you have a source of heat in the basement, I'd remove the insulation, if easy to do. If no source of heat, I'd leave the ceiling insulated. If you don't use the basement much in the winter, I wouldn't bother to insulate the walls, if the ceiling above it is well insulated.

BTW--what sort of insulation is on the basement ceiling?


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## midwestcoast (Dec 24, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

> livefreeordie said:
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+1 With the ceiling insulated (if well insulated) the only reason I'd look at insulatiing the walls is if I wanted to finish the basement.  Still would probably pay to do the band joist/sill plate though.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

With my foundation walls being slate rock, there are all different sizes and shapes. So, none of it is even or square. Like I said previous owner installed 1x3 nailer/ furring strips and plastic sheathing on the walls. 
My wife can tell you that the dirt floor well let moisture out. She has some boxes of decorations down there and when she picked one up the bottom fell out of it. Now, I bought her plastic storage totes.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

dave11 said:
			
		

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We use the basement to wash/dry cloths plus we have an office there but it doesn't get used much in the winter. The ceiling has R15 fiberglass bats with a paper vapor barrier facing up. There is a source of heat but it doesn't come on since the pellet stove was installed.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 24, 2010)

midwestcoast said:
			
		

> dave11 said:
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Definitely going to do the ban joists, I hate to spend the money on foam if we don't use the basement much but the wife sure would be happy. A happy wife makes for a stress free life,lol At $10 a sheet i can buy lots of pellets with that money, will see what she wants to do this weekend.


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## semipro (Dec 24, 2010)

Ed S said:
			
		

> Hey my house is on a slate foundation with a dirt floor. Previous owner put up 1x3 nailers and vapor barrier on the walls. The areas around the foundation has been stuffed with pink insulation.
> I am not sure if it would help my situation to insulate the walls with still having a dirt floor. Comments/ thoughts ???



So you basically have a crawl space except its high enough to walk in? 

If so, the same site I linked to earlier in this thread at construction science corp has some pretty good information on finishing out crawlspaces to control moisture and heat loss.


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## esuitt (Dec 24, 2010)

Semipro said:
			
		

> Ed S said:
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No, we have a full basement. I do not consider it a crawl space since we it is the full length of the house, has the h/w heater, oil tank, furnace and the electric service plus we can walk in it.  We do have a small crawl space under the kitchen with pink insulation in between the floor joices. That floor/ room is the coldest of the 1st floor rooms.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 30, 2010)

Well we picked up some 1" foam this week and will start the install this weekend, i will post some pictures and let you guys know how it went.


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## semipro (Dec 30, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> Well we picked up some 1" foam this week and will start the install this weekend, i will post some pictures and let you guys know how it went.



Great.  I'm getting ready to do this soon.  I'll be interested to see if you have any problems getting the foam panels to stick flush with the wall so that no air space exists.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 30, 2010)

I did learn that there is a special adhesive for the rigid foam, just an fyi.


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## semipro (Dec 30, 2010)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> I did learn that there is a special adhesive for the rigid foam, just an fyi.



As did I.  Locktite sells it under their "PL" label, about $3.53 per tube locally BTW.  I have just read of others having some difficulty holding the foam in close contact with the wall while the glue dried.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 30, 2010)

I thought about that, i guess i will have to use some 2x4's to prop the foam in place until the glue dries or see how long my wife will stand there and hold it


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## velvetfoot (Dec 30, 2010)

Yeah, I never figured out a way to prop them in place, although they'll stick there after a little while of holding.
If the 2x4 was temporarily attached to the floor joist above, the lower end could be held in place by some kind of weight


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## semipro (Dec 30, 2010)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> Yeah, I never figured out a way to prop them in place, although they'll stick there after a little while of holding.
> If the 2x4 was temporarily attached to the floor joist above, the lower end could be held in place by some kind of weight



I've even entertained the idea of using a vacuum pump that I have to do this.  I was thinking that I could run a nice bead of the glue around the outer edge of the panel (between the wall and panel) to create a seal and then draw a vacuum through a hole in the center of the panel.  Of course I'd also need glue spread elsewhere for adhesion.  I'm guessing chances of success doing it this way are pretty low though.  Ether the glue would block the air flow or I'd never get a good seal.  I may try it anyway just to appease my curiosity.  If it did work it would make things easy.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 30, 2010)

Call me cheap but i won't spend the money on electricty while the glue dries. i have enough stuff in the basement to hold the foam in place until it dries.


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## livefreeordie (Dec 31, 2010)

Update, i installed four 1x2x7 sheets of foam using loctite pl300 foamboard adhesive and titedond foamboard adh. to my suprise i did not have to prop anything against the foam to hold them in place.


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## livefreeordie (Jan 2, 2011)

Well 26 sheets of 1x2x7 and eight tubes of glue later the basement is done. Now we will see if the temp stays warner.


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## semipro (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for the update.  I was wondering how much glue I would need.


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## livefreeordie (Jan 2, 2011)

Because my walls are poured in four foot sections they are not perfectly flush so i had to use more glue than i wanted. I used eight evenly spaced large blobs of glue which seemed to work the best for me..Its been 24 hours and i can feel the difference in the temp, well worth the money i think.


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## gpcollen1 (Jan 3, 2011)

Nice work - did you do just the walls or the floor too?


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## livefreeordie (Jan 4, 2011)

CTwoodburner said:
			
		

> Nice work - did you do just the walls or the floor too?



Just the walls, its been cold the last couple of nights and the temp has held steady at 56 with no heat source so i would say its doing its job very well.


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## EJL923 (Jan 14, 2011)

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20332381,00.html


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## livefreeordie (Jan 15, 2011)

Saw that vid. very good info thanks


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## gpcollen1 (Jan 17, 2011)

livefreeordie said:
			
		

> Semipro said:
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Of course insulation is going to help.  Read the rest of the 'insulation' articles too.  

http://www.buildingscience.com/search?SearchableText=insulation


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