# Boiling bath vs Pressure canner?



## Adios Pantalones (Sep 6, 2012)

I've done jelly, and with tomatoes I stew then freeze- but in a bumper crop year the freezer gets filled with just a couple things. I also have a dehydrator, but it only goes so far.

Boiling bath method (say for tomatoes) requires acidification- how much does it change taste?

Is a good pressure canner worth it? Thinking about going full boat and getting an All American if I do get one.


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## lukem (Sep 6, 2012)

When I hot water bath tomato juice, it calls for a couple tablespoons of lemon juice per quart of juice. I can't tell any difference, but I'm not a tomato juice connoisseur either.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 6, 2012)

Once you start using pressure canner it is difficult to go back. They really are great although a bit costly to get. Still, they last a lifetime for you and then your grandchildren. We have a couple of them; different sizes. Sure cuts down on the time to process too.


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## fishingpol (Sep 6, 2012)

It is something I'll be researching as we are going to put up some batches of soup and spaghetti sauce in a few weeks.  I thought pressure was for preserving meats.


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## fishingpol (Sep 6, 2012)

Here ya go. I used this site for my jelly. It has some explanation when to use bath or pressure. Tons of info on this site too.

http://www.pickyourown.org/canningsupplies.htm#canners

http://www.pickyourown.org/pressurecanners.htm


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## osagebow (Sep 6, 2012)

fishingpol said:


> It is something I'll be researching as we are going to put up some batches of soup and spaghetti sauce in a few weeks. I thought pressure was for preserving meats.


 
+1
tomatoes with some added salt should be fine - my family has canned sliced peppers in crushed tomatoes, salt, garlic and basil for 3 generations (in this country, anyway) using the water bath method. That said, i would love to pressure can some venison. Gotta get the venison first, though..

Buona Fortuna!


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 7, 2012)

You need pressure to do meats, but it's a bonus on veggies as it cuts down cook time and reduces need for additional acidity.

Looks like a good investment, though I may be at about peak or just past it on tomatoes for the year. Here's the haul from Tuesday, got similar on Thursday (more habaneros Thurs). The big tomatoes are really producing softball+ fruits like crazy.


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## Danno77 (Sep 7, 2012)

Pressure cooker all the way. My big pressure cooker is just the right size for brewing, too. Big stainless steel pot will never ever wear out!


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 7, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> Pressure cooker all the way. My big pressure cooker is just the right size for brewing, too. Big stainless steel pot will never ever wear out!


I haven't seen good stainless ones- even the All American was aluminum. Do you recall the brand name on yours?

Having one with a stainless pot that I could use separately would be ideal. My big pots are el cheapo and need replacement


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## Danno77 (Sep 7, 2012)

you got me, looked it up and it's aluminum. Presto 23-quart.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 7, 2012)

fishingpol said:


> It is something I'll be researching as we are going to put up some batches of soup and spaghetti sauce in a few weeks. I thought pressure was for preserving meats.


 
You've already learned on this but I'll add that we can venison every year and always use the pressure canner. Usually put the pint jars in the small one and the quarts in the larger one. Canning meat like this, the meat will keep for years if need be.


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## Dune (Sep 9, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> You've already learned on this but I'll add that we can venison every year and always use the pressure canner. Usually put the pint jars in the small one and the quarts in the larger one. Canning meat like this, the meat will keep for years if need be.


 
Never tried canned meat. How does it taste? Do you just use it for stew?


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## ScotO (Sep 9, 2012)

I have an All-American 20qt pressure cooker that I got several years ago on ebay to can venison.  It's missing the poundage-weight.  I bought that cooker to use on the firepit, didn't get a deer that season so I put it on the cupboard in the workshop and it's been there since.  Where can I get the poundage adjustment weight for it?  I'll have to check on ebay.


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## ScotO (Sep 9, 2012)

Dune said:


> Never tried canned meat. How does it taste? Do you just use it for stew?


 canned meat is AWESOME.  Great in stews, casseroles, or right out of the jar.  I'd say its probably the best way to preserve venison, but you definately need a pressure cooker.  That kills of the nasties in those jars.


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 9, 2012)

Dune said:


> Never tried canned meat. How does it taste? Do you just use it for stew?


 
When you can meat it definitely changes the flavor (for the good) and also tenderizes it. For canning, we cut usually into 1" or less cubes. We just jam the meat in and add 1 teaspoon of salt per quart for venison. Would be about the same for beef.

You can use the meat for anything that you normally would use it for. I like the venison just warmed up nicely with lots of margarine in the pan to keep the meat good and moist. You can also just open a jar and fix a sandwich if you want. After all, the meat is already cooked.


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## Lewiston (Sep 9, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> When you can meat it definitely changes the flavor (for the good) and also tenderizes it. For canning, we cut usually into 1" or less cubes. We just jam the meat in and add 1 teaspoon of salt per quart for venison. Would be about the same for beef.
> 
> You can use the meat for anything that you normally would use it for. I like the venison just warmed up nicely with lots of margarine in the pan to keep the meat good and moist. You can also just open a jar and fix a sandwich if you want. After all, the meat is already cooked.


This is what we do with most of the meat we harvest.  Love it!


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## save$ (Sep 9, 2012)

We hot water bath and pressure can.  The you pick site that Fishingpol posted is an excellent reference.  So is the Ball blue book. Follow directions and you will be safe and have a lot of good food.   My grandparents canned everything without a pressure canner.  With nine kids they had to provide a lot of food. Life was tough in northern Maine.   No one got sick, but those methods are not reccomended today.  Heavy use of salt etc.  
With all those tomatoes, consider salsa.  You can dill green tomatoes.  They are even crisper than those made from cucumbers and taste just the same.


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## firebroad (Sep 10, 2012)

I have not used a boiling water bath to can for years.  A pressure canner can do so much more, and it saves water to boot.  It won't heat your kitchen up like a BWB will, either.
Tougher cuts of venison, rabbit and squirrel are just made for canning.  There is nothing I love more on a cold winter night than a jar of venison, with the juice slightly thickened, on top of a bed of mashed potatoes.
I have just recently discovered (I must be a real slow learner, I've been at this for nearly forty years!) that if you have a Presto canner with a gauge, you can used the graduated weight with it, and you don't have to mind the numbers on the gauge as much, and you get a much more even pressure.  Once you creep the heat down to where it will maintain, you can ignore it until the time is up.


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## save$ (Sep 10, 2012)

firebroad said:


> I have not used a boiling water bath to can for years.  A pressure canner can do so much more, and it saves water to boot.  It won't heat your kitchen up like a BWB will, either.
> Tougher cuts of venison, rabbit and squirrel are just made for canning.  There is nothing I love more on a cold winter night than a jar of venison, with the juice slightly thickened, on top of a bed of mashed potatoes.
> I have just recently discovered (I must be a real slow learner, I've been at this for nearly forty years!) that if you have a Presto canner with a gauge, you can used the graduated weight with it, and you don't have to mind the numbers on the gauge as much, and you get a much more even pressure.  Once you creep the heat down to where it will maintain, you can ignore it until the time is up.


That waited thing is an additional purchase.  I don't have one, but can see the advantage of not having to sit with it and constantly adjusting the stove.   Is it any better with gas or electric?    I was loosing fluid from my jars until I learned to hot pack them them first.   Now my jars remain full.   I just pressured canned summer squash with tomato.   In the winter,  I cook some elbow pasta,  brown some spicy sausage, put it all together and enjoy some comfort food.


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## firebroad (Sep 10, 2012)

save$ said:


> That waited thing is an additional purchase. I don't have one, but can see the advantage of not having to sit with it and constantly adjusting the stove. Is it any better with gas or electric? I was loosing fluid from my jars until I learned to hot pack them them first. Now my jars remain full. I just pressured canned summer squash with tomato. In the winter, I cook some elbow pasta, brown some spicy sausage, put it all together and enjoy some comfort food.


Yes, it is about $3-4 more for the weight; but I found that since I now have electric, it was hard for me to regulate pressure because of the fluctuations associated with an electric element.  All the years I had gas, no problems.  For me, it was worth the couple  of bucks.  I don't care to hot pack, just call me lazy.


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## mfglickman (Sep 10, 2012)

We got citric acid in a jar - it's granules - and add I think 1/2 - 1 tsp per quart. Whatever the Ball book says. Done using hot water bath but I forgot to clear airspace so some of my jars have bubbles. Oops.


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## save$ (Sep 10, 2012)

mfglickman said:


> We got citric acid in a jar - it's granules - and add I think 1/2 - 1 tsp per quart. Whatever the Ball book says. Done using hot water bath but I forgot to clear airspace so some of my jars have bubbles. Oops.


Love those granules.   Better than adding lemon juice which adds too much fluid to some things like salsa.  No detectable change in flavor


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 10, 2012)

My wife did some of the hot bath but I talked her into the pressure canner and we never looked back. That was about 50 years ago....


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## Danno77 (Sep 10, 2012)

And here I've been trying to talk my wife into a hot bath. I'm going the wrong direction


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 10, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> And here I've been trying to talk my wife into a hot bath. I'm going the wrong direction


That comment took longer than I expected! Ha ha


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## pen (Sep 10, 2012)

I use both methods, depending on what I'm doing.

I have had good luck with this pressure canner that I picked up a few years back. http://www.amazon.com/Presto-01781-23-Quart-Pressure-Canner/dp/B0000BYCFU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347323945&sr=8-3&keywords=presto pressure cooker







Just made up salsa last night and I did it with a hot water bath.

pen


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## save$ (Sep 10, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> And here I've been trying to talk my wife into a hot bath. I'm going the wrong direction


 
What about pickles.  Are you going to pressure can pickles?  If you pressure can pickles, you might get a lot of really soft pickles. Not my favorite.  Jams  are usually hot water bath.  There are good uses for both. Just stick with the modern methods. 
If you have one of those horrid glass top stoves, be careful, there only one pressure canner that says it can be used on glass top stoves.   I can hardly wait for my stove to break down.   We got it about 3 years ago.  A glass top unit. White! and two ovens.  Hated it from the second day we owned it. We have never used that second oven.  Too low to the floor.


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## firebroad (Sep 11, 2012)

save$ said:


> What about pickles. Are you going to pressure can pickles? If you pressure can pickles, you might get a lot of really soft pickles. Not my favorite. Jams are usually hot water bath. There are good uses for both. Just stick with the modern methods.
> If you have one of those horrid glass top stoves, be careful, there only one pressure canner that says it can be used on glass top stoves. I can hardly wait for my stove to break down. We got it about 3 years ago. A glass top unit. White! and two ovens. Hated it from the second day we owned it. We have never used that second oven. Too low to the floor.


Pickles, jams and relishes should never be pressure canned.  In fact, many of us old timers used to never processed them at all, just poured the contents into scalding hot jars and lids, and turned them over.  For jam, we would cap it with paraffin with a bit of string to facilitate removal.  It was found that these are not safe practices, and even though no one in my family ever got sick, I began processing in a BWB some years ago.  
The directions are in any good canning book such as the Ball Blue Book.


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## Dune (Sep 11, 2012)

save$ said:


> What about pickles. Are you going to pressure can pickles? If you pressure can pickles, you might get a lot of really soft pickles. Not my favorite. Jams are usually hot water bath. There are good uses for both. Just stick with the modern methods.
> If you have one of those horrid glass top stoves, be careful, there only one pressure canner that says it can be used on glass top stoves. I can hardly wait for my stove to break down. We got it about 3 years ago. A glass top unit. White! and two ovens. Hated it from the second day we owned it. We have never used that second oven. Too low to the floor.


 
Wow, that's weird. I only use the bottom oven because the top one is too low.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 12, 2012)

Just ordered this sucker here, right there. Looks like a tank, gets great reviews

http://www.amazon.com/All-American-...&sr=8-1&keywords=all+american+pressure+canner


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 12, 2012)

Man, that large size pic is even sexier


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## firebroad (Sep 12, 2012)

The All American is the CADILLAC of pressure canners, AP.  Good choice!  You won't have to worry about gaskets, for one thing.


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## save$ (Sep 12, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Just ordered this sucker here, right there. Looks like a tank, gets great reviews
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/All-American-...&sr=8-1&keywords=all+american+pressure+canner


Hope you don't plan to use this on a glass top stove,   
See the warning on this page.   Not trying to stick my nose in, but you would be disappointed if this brakes your stove.  http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamerican921pressurecanner.htm
I didn't see the warning on the Amazon link.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 12, 2012)

save$ said:


> Hope you don't plan to use this on a glass top stove,
> See the warning on this page. Not trying to stick my nose in, but you would be disappointed if this brakes your stove. http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamerican921pressurecanner.htm
> I didn't see the warning on the Amazon link.


I appreciate the warning, but I have gas. My stove has gas as well


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## firebroad (Sep 12, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> I appreciate the warning, but I have gas. My stove has gas as well


Wish I had gas.  The stove, I mean...


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## save$ (Sep 12, 2012)

firebroad said:


> Wish I had gas.  The stove, I mean...


I have been trying to get my wife to go to a gas stove for years.  She had one that was in  old military housing that blew up in her face. She had her hair burned off and her nylons melted on her.  ( also pregnant at the time).   Only now, some 40 yrs later is she willing to consider a new gas stove.  She didn't get scaring on her skin but it sure did a number on her not wanting a gas stove.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 12, 2012)

I grew up scared of gas- we always had electric- but what a huge difference it makes cooking.


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## Morgan (Sep 12, 2012)

I have the All American 921 model, does 17-19 pints at a time.  Just did up some Round/Blade beef up a few days ago, cold packed, turned out delicious.  I heeded the warning, but still use it on my ceramic stove top with no problems, I have not done a full load though, full loads I do in the basement on the propane burner


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 12, 2012)

firebroad said:


> Wish I had gas. The stove, I mean...


 
I have so much gas they want me to use medicine to calm it down....


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## save$ (Sep 12, 2012)

I do most of the canning out on our screen porch.   That keeps the mess out of the kitchen and it is a better clean up when I can hose the place down when I am done.  Only do the pressure canning inside.  I liken having the picnic table that I can spread things around on.


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## fishingpol (Sep 12, 2012)

Go big or go home.  Nice.  I trolled CL the other night, pressure canners are out there, just on the other side of the state.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 13, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> I grew up scared of gas- we always had electric- but what a huge difference it makes cooking.


 
Same here . . . mother was scared of gas stoves.

Now I don't know if you could pay me to go back to cooking with electric.

For the record . . . fast fact of the day . . . more cooking fires in the US occur with electric stoves (I'm not sure if it is simply because more folks use them or if the absence of actual flames leads to folks not thinking a little more about fire safety around the stove.)


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 13, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Same here . . . mother was scared of gas stoves.
> 
> Now I don't know if you could pay me to go back to cooking with electric.
> 
> For the record . . . fast fact of the day . . . more cooking fires in the US occur with electric stoves (I'm not sure if it is simply because more folks use them or if the absence of actual flames leads to folks not thinking a little more about fire safety around the stove.)


 
I know that my mom leaves her electric on all the time. She's famous for melting things or having pots glowing on the stove.

Seeing a flame is a pretty good indicator, and maybe people are more careful with fire, as well.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 13, 2012)

So will this thing free me from using very specific recipes for canning? If I use the right heat/pressure/time- am I able to can my chili or spag sauce? (I am pretty fond of my own recipes)


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 13, 2012)

You'll do fine Adios. It just won't take as long.


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## rideau (Sep 16, 2012)

Our family has been making jams and jellies for 200 years.  Never have hot water bathed them and never will...totally unnecessary if you use clean sterilized hot jars and make sure you have good seals.  I have one jar of my grandmother's jelly left, made in 1988, it's still crystal clear.  Make red currant, crapapple and apple jelly, strawberry, raspberry, wild raspberry, gooseberry, strawberry-rhubabrd and blueberry jams.  We used to always seal the jelly with parafin (two layers, thin), and the jams with rubberseals and glass capped screwtops.  Now generally use the vacuum screw tops on all the jams and jellies, although I do occasionally use one of the really old jars or my jelly jars for fun.  Use nothing but sugar and fruit.  Have never had a jar that seals go bad.  If one doesn't seal I refrigerate it and use it first.  That seldom happens...
Do a lot of cooking with my jellies (flavor white sauces for ham, chicken and turkey dishes, heat some left over poultry and meats in jelly, etc) and use brown sugar to make the jelly that is destined for cooking...gives a richer flavor.


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## save$ (Sep 16, 2012)

Lots of ways to put up food.  After all, food was kept for years just that way by generation after generation.  But then we have some that stray.  Like Putting their fingers in the containers after they boiled them.  Or handle other contaminated food while making putting up canned and preserved foods.  The hot water and pressure canning helps clean up those oversights and helps the food stay edible and preventing illness.  Like anything,  some folks are better at it than others.  Many of us don't have parents who canned food, so we have to learn from others (as in  this forum) .    
Our canning for this season is all but over.  Our shelves are full.  It could have been better if the blight hadn't set on, but all in all it was good. I enjoyed my backyard a lot more as a garden than I did last year when it was a lawn.  We are already going over what worked, and what wasn't so good.   After all, we will be starting seedling again in five months!   Got to be ready...


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## TMonter (Sep 17, 2012)

save$ said:


> Hope you don't plan to use this on a glass top stove,
> See the warning on this page. Not trying to stick my nose in, but you would be disappointed if this brakes your stove. http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamerican921pressurecanner.htm
> I didn't see the warning on the Amazon link.


 
We're been using our All American on our glass smooth top for years with no issues but the last couple years we've been using it on a the propane burner since it heats ways faster.


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## smokinj (Sep 17, 2012)

We are running about 25 gallons a week right now. Water bath is all that is needed and a little salt. We have both canners purrsure canner are needed when acid content is very low. I have 2 good size dehydrator too. We can do a little over 5 gallons at a time taking about 48 hours. We have done over 700 qts of viggies and meat since March. Kinda ready for a frost but not stopping til then!


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 17, 2012)

Got the canner today. Thing is built like an engine block. Already did maters tonight


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## save$ (Sep 17, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Got the canner today. Thing is built like an engine block. Already did maters tonight


That is one serious looking canning machine.   Hope you can lift it!   So your first effort was with tomatoes. 
Did you hot or cold pack?   Did you loose any fluid from your jars.   Thanks


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## TMonter (Sep 18, 2012)

You'll enjoy the 921, it's a solid piece of equipment and the best part is there is no rubber seal to go bad. We've been considering buying another one since we do so much canning.

We can everything from Tuna, Ground Beef, and soups to tomatoes, and green beans in it.

We have a big water bath canner for high acid fruits. We're about to start Peach processing here today (15 - 25 pound boxes of peaches)


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 18, 2012)

save$ said:


> That is one serious looking canning machine. Hope you can lift it! So your first effort was with tomatoes.
> Did you hot or cold pack? Did you loose any fluid from your jars. Thanks


 
Hot pack (I thawed tomatoes that I stewed/froze last week), citric acid, there was evidence that some liquid leaked out into the bath but not much (didn't notice a level change). I like watching the tomatoes still boiling in the jar when I remove them from the bath.

Also did some habanero/carrot hot sauce last night.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 18, 2012)

So for soups/stews/prepared spag sauce- do I pressure cook for the longest time required for any ingredient? For instance- if I had chili with meat, do I just use the recommended time for the meat?


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## firebroad (Sep 18, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> So for soups/stews/prepared spag sauce- do I pressure cook for the longest time required for any ingredient? For instance- if I had chili with meat, do I just use the recommended time for the meat?


Yes!  especially with meat.  You can find good canning recipies on line if you don't have a book.  There is a website called  www.*pickyourown*.org/  that has some good  stuff.
Also, leave the jars in the canner for a lot longer than with a BWB; all that boiling gets agitated when you take the lid off and move the jars, and it can cause water leakage that can ruin the seal, and the sudden change in temperature can cause breakage.  I always let my canner sit undisturbed for a good 10-15 minutes after the pressure drops the vent down.


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## smokinj (Sep 18, 2012)

Anytime using meat is 90min. I dont like to do soups and things like that because it will over cook what you dont want cooked. Do meat by its self and most of the things that would go into the soup would either be canned by its self or shelve stable.


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## mfglickman (Sep 18, 2012)

save$ said:


> If you have one of those horrid glass top stoves, be careful, there only one pressure canner that says it can be used on glass top stoves.   I can hardly wait for my stove to break down.   We got it about 3 years ago.  A glass top unit. White! and two ovens.  Hated it from the second day we owned it. We have never used that second oven.  Too low to the floor.



oh we have the same stove. Came with the house. It's 13 years or so old. Hate it. And had to buy a $80 flat bottom water bath canner to work on it.


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## firebroad (Sep 19, 2012)

When I got my new glass cooktop, I was REALLY peeved off to find that canning was not recommended.  After a year of fooling around with a so called electric pressure canner(it was just a pressure cooker, and not that accurate to boot), I got fed up and bought a Presto sixteen quart.  I figured since I was not canning for the whole family anymore (although you'd never know it they way they like to take my home canned goods home with them), I could get by with smaller batches, and if the damn thing broke, well, good riddance to bad rubbish, and I would just eat the cost and buy a coil type again.  So far, it has been 5 years with no problems.  I never do more than two batches in a day, and I always let the burner get cold in between.  Don't know it that helps, but so far so good.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

One batch of tomatoes, one batch of spag. sauce (7 quarts at a time). I like doing the spaghetti sauce- I get to use other garden stuff (peppers/garlic) and it boils down so much that it saves a lot of space.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

We are pretty burn out on it now but still keep doing around 25 gallons of tomatoes week. We run a 30qt sauce pan and bust 25 gallons down to 21qts. I have two good size dehyrators that can hold about 8 gallons and reduce it down to one quart. Now it really comes down to jar management. I built a pantry this spring with lots of shelves and we are over loaded down. (Guess the closets will be next)


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

Smokin- by later next summer you'll be itching to replenish your stocks. I'm motivated to get serious about my garden now- previously a lot of stuff went unpicked or unused because I had limited storage ability.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Smokin- by later next summer you'll be itching to replenish your stocks. I'm motivated to get serious about my garden now- previously a lot of stuff went unpicked or unused because I had limited storage ability.


 

Your right....Last year was my first year. Now I know a few more things. 1# and foremost cut back on tomatoes in 2013. . Its been a good year here but wasited a well pump doing it.


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## rideau (Sep 20, 2012)

smokinj said:


> We are pretty burn out on it now but still keep doing around 25 gallons of tomatoes week. We run a 30qt sauce pan and bust 25 gallons down to 21qts. I have two good size dehyrators that can hold about 8 gallons and reduce it down to one quart. Now it really comes down to jar management. I built a pantry this spring with lots of shelves and we are over loaded down. (Guess the closets will be next)


 
How many quart jars of tomato do you actually usein a year?  I've frozen/canned so much this year, I'm wondering if I'll use it all before next years tomato crop starts producing,


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

rideau said:


> How many quart jars of tomato do you actually usein a year? I've frozen/canned so much this year, I'm wondering if I'll use it all before next years tomato crop starts producing,


 
What I read says that properly canned stuff will stay fine for several years, but use before 3 years or so for best quality.That's good kuzz then you can judge/measure what you use and just make up the difference. It would be nice to stagger years with more tomatoes (the biggie), vs. hot peppers, carrots etc- in off years I'd just plant enough to have some fresh for the season.

I had 4 beefsteak plants, and 2 romas. That picture is about 50# of maters before processing, plus we probably ate another 25#+ in recipes etc. during the season, and I have a few on plants to pick still. That's 15#+ per plant! Holy moley.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

rideau said:


> How many quart jars of tomato do you actually usein a year? I've frozen/canned so much this year, I'm wondering if I'll use it all before next years tomato crop starts producing,


 
Shes been trying to inventory everthing but something always comes up in the middle of it. My best guess would be 175 qut jars, and another 3 gallons of dehyrated powder. (This is just tomotos only)


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Shes been trying to inventory everthing but something always comes up in the middle of it. My best guess would be 175, and another 3 gallons of dehyrated powder.


That's the inventory of what you have, not what you use- right? What do you use in a year? The 3 gallons dehydrated powder alone is a LOT of tomatoes.

man, even I'm getting put off by my own avatar


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> That's the inventory of what you have, not what you use- right? What do you use in a year? The 3 gallons dehydrated powder alone is a LOT of tomatoes.


 
You are right! Lots of it could go into the next 3 years, so we will adjust to that come Feb. Really looks like more focus on corn and beans next year. I let all my sweet corn go to seed so that is something I will not need to buy in 2013. (Way to hot for corn this year even watering)


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## rideau (Sep 20, 2012)

smokinj said:


> We are pretty burn out on it now but still keep doing around 25 gallons of tomatoes week. We run a 30qt sauce pan and bust 25 gallons down to 21qts. I have two good size dehyrators that can hold about 8 gallons and reduce it down to one quart. Now it really comes down to jar management. I built a pantry this spring with lots of shelves and we are over loaded down. (Guess the closets will be next)


 
Had a friend visiting for two weeks.  Was really excited at the idea of making spaghetti sauce - we used onions, celery, peppers, carrots, zucchini, mushrooms, all cooked separately and added near the end; sage, parsley, oregano, basil and parsley added early on in the reducing stages.  Began cutting cores, scalding and peeling at 4 PM....filled my jelly pot...about 5 gallons....took a break for spaghetti with sauce (of course...smelled out of this world) for dinner, kept simmering until almost midnight, when it was thick enough to add other ingredients, simmer briefly, can and then start waterbath...ended up with five quarts.    At about this point my friend starting figuring out cost per jar, including time to purchase, start, transplant, prep garden, plant, tend (weed), harvest, prepare....and decided $8.00 jars of gourmet sauce were a bargain.....BUT- I have 40 varieties, and not a drop of pesticide or herbicide or man made fertilizer goes in my garden...plus I enjoy gardening and looking at a healthy garden...so for me it's worth it. 
Had lots of beans I had headed and toed earlier in the day (5 gallons) so used the water bath to steam them by the gallon at the end of the tomato canning....left them over the steam about 5 minutes because of the volume...went way faster than my normal steaming, had all the beans done in half an hour.  Froze them in gallon bags, we'll see how that works.  I think it'll be fine.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

rideau said:


> Had a friend visiting for two weeks. Was really excited at the idea of making spaghetti sauce - we used onions, celery, peppers, carrots, zucchini, mushrooms, all cooked separately and added near the end; sage, parsley, oregano, basil and parsley added early on in the reducing stages. Began cutting cores, scalding and peeling at 4 PM....filled my jelly pot...about 5 gallons....took a break for spaghetti with sauce (of course...smelled out of this world) for dinner, kept simmering until almost midnight, when it was thick enough to add other ingredients, simmer briefly, can and then start waterbath...ended up with five quarts. At about this point my friend starting figuring out cost per jar, including time to purchase, start, transplant, prep garden, plant, tend (weed), harvest, prepare....and decided $8.00 jars of gourmet sauce were a bargain.....BUT- I have 40 varieties, and not a drop of pesticide or herbicide or man made fertilizer goes in my garden...plus I enjoy gardening and looking at a healthy garden...so for me it's worth it.
> Had lots of beans I had headed and toed earlier in the day (5 gallons) so used the water bath to steam them by the gallon at the end of the tomato canning....left them over the steam about 5 minutes because of the volume...went way faster than my normal steaming, had all the beans done in half an hour. Froze them in gallon bags, we'll see how that works. I think it'll be fine.


 
I can (Should say she can) bust down 20 gallons a day. Thats already pick and setting at the sink. I do all the dehyrating she does all the canning its work out well. I have 75lbs of potatoes to do saturday.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

rideau said:


> Had a friend visiting for two weeks. Was really excited at the idea of making spaghetti sauce - we used onions, celery, peppers, carrots, zucchini, mushrooms, all cooked separately and added near the end; sage, parsley, oregano, basil and parsley added early on in the reducing stages. Began cutting cores, scalding and peeling at 4 PM....filled my jelly pot...about 5 gallons....took a break for spaghetti with sauce (of course...smelled out of this world) for dinner, kept simmering until almost midnight, when it was thick enough to add other ingredients, simmer briefly, can and then start waterbath...ended up with five quarts. At about this point my friend starting figuring out cost per jar, including time to purchase, start, transplant, prep garden, plant, tend (weed), harvest, prepare....and decided $8.00 jars of gourmet sauce were a bargain.....BUT- I have 40 varieties, and not a drop of pesticide or herbicide or man made fertilizer goes in my garden...plus I enjoy gardening and looking at a healthy garden...so for me it's worth it.
> Had lots of beans I had headed and toed earlier in the day (5 gallons) so used the water bath to steam them by the gallon at the end of the tomato canning....left them over the steam about 5 minutes because of the volume...went way faster than my normal steaming, had all the beans done in half an hour. Froze them in gallon bags, we'll see how that works. I think it'll be fine.


 
There's lots of ways to cut the bulk of the cost out. Plus- gardening is a hobby on top of being productive. Counting labor costs into something that I WANT to do doesn't make sense in my case. I also don't count my labor into my wood pile cost, or I might start buying it. I could be a poor guy with a TON of time on my hands if I paid others to do it all 

If you get serious, you can start your own seeds cheaply, and split costs with someone else. Who uses a whole packet of tomato seeds (well, maybe SmokinJ, from the sound of it!). I want to start a sharing this here where I start these couple things, someone else starts some other plants, and we trade.
I don't have much prep of the garden- I don't till. Pull any weeds, plant, dump compost and shredded leaves on there.
I don't do much weeding at all- the mulch suppresses weeds really well.
After being established- I didn't water once a week- the mulch keeps moisture in (and reduces blossom end rot)- of course I'm not in super full sun, and we had reasonable rainfall.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> There's lots of ways to cut the bulk of the cost out. Plus- gardening is a hobby on top of being productive. Counting labor costs into something that I WANT to do doesn't make sense in my case. I also don't count my labor into my wood pile cost, or I might start buying it. I could be a poor guy with a TON of time on my hands if I paid others to do it all
> 
> If you get serious, you can start your own seeds cheaply, and split costs with someone else. Who uses a whole packet of tomato seeds (well, maybe SmokinJ, from the sound of it!). I want to start a sharing this here where I start these couple things, someone else starts some other plants, and we trade.
> I don't have much prep of the garden- I don't till. Pull any weeds, plant, dump compost and shredded leaves on there.
> ...


 
Your cost just like firewood the better you are and the higher voulme will bring your cost down. I had an ad of craglist for awhile looking for free jars. I got over 300 that way. My crops are all non- hybreed, so my seed cost will be next to nothing in 2013. The scronger always comes out in me. Another thing we do is look for great deals on meat, pork loins under 1.99 should under 1.00 beef under 2.99 and chicken well under 1.00. We can that and make quick homemade meals just add alttle GARDEN!  


Oh and I have 5 and a half 30 foot rowes or 165 feet of tomotos.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

Rideau- unless you WANT to count the costs of that labor in so that you can brag about your expensive tastes and habits later 

Smokin- wow. That's a LOT. Sounds like you really nailed down a system


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## rideau (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> There's lots of ways to cut the bulk of the cost out. Plus- gardening is a hobby on top of being productive. Counting labor costs into something that I WANT to do doesn't make sense in my case. I also don't count my labor into my wood pile cost, or I might start buying it. I could be a poor guy with a TON of time on my hands if I paid others to do it all
> 
> If you get serious, you can start your own seeds cheaply, and split costs with someone else. Who uses a whole packet of tomato seeds (well, maybe SmokinJ, from the sound of it!). I want to start a sharing this here where I start these couple things, someone else starts some other plants, and we trade.
> I don't have much prep of the garden- I don't till. Pull any weeds, plant, dump compost and shredded leaves on there.
> ...


 
We do start all our plants from seed.  Both our homes are disaster areas from January to planting time.  By March I'm praying for the end of deep freezes so I can get my early vegetables in.  We were eating baby spinach in late April, peas the beginning of June, tomatoes the beginning of July this year...actually the very first were mid to late June, summer squash in mid June.  
Started gardening with a friend because my woods have grown in so I have almost full shade...well, lots of shade and the 30 foot tulip tree I let grow in a corner of my garden doesn't help...so we're in blazing sun, deep soil, lots of wind.  This dry summer was a killer.  I've almost talked my friend out of tilling...have an area we don't till at all....mulch everything...but it was so windy and dry this year that we were very dry and had to do lots of watering....very windy, so some mulch got blown around....especially in the new area, always weeds despite mulch,  easy to keep down if one keeps after it. ..(weeds because of wind and proximity to hourse pasture)<  Because we are gardening together got more ambitious, added about 50 feet to the garden...now about 150 x 35 feet....we're  growing summer and winter squash, borage, nasturtium, pole, bush, filet and lima beans, snap, podded and snow peas, 40 varieties of tomatoes, spinach (8 varieties), chinese vegetables, red and white cabbage (which we cut early so we get a second harvest of four or more smaller heads), kohlrabi, broccoli, egyptian walking onions, sage, rhubarb, carrots, beets, many varieties of lettuce, radicchio, mustard, kale, parsley, basil, lavendar, lettuce, turnips, parsnips, swiss chard, brussel sprouts, red&white&green&purple cauliflower -anyone who hasn't tried the purple cauliflower should, as it is bug free and drop dead gorgeous and tastes better than the white- , 11 varieties of potatoes, celeriac, leek, onion, garlic, cukes and three varieties of sweet peppers. 

My seeds keep a long time...that's why I have 40 varieties of tomatoes...add a few each year.  Oldest tomato seed I used this year was 2002.  Have dozens of pea and bean varieties, 8 spinach, many squash, tomato and carrot...part of what makes the gardening fun and rewarding....was just mentioning my friend's comment about cost....

Maybe we should try a seed exchange.....do you keep much seed from your plants?  Easy with peas and beans.  May try growing one heirloom variety of each vegetable at my place each year in order to propagate the seeds, if I can get the heart to cut enough trees to get enough sun.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 20, 2012)

Wow man- you're ambitious.How do you store seeds- just dry area, or in the freezer?

My garden is only about 30' x 15', and there's just 2 of us eating from it. I've found that the more I mulch with leaves/compost without tilling, the easier it is to pull the weeds that do grow because the soil is so rich the roots don't hold at all. The only downside to it is that the soil is super loose and plants need good support to stand well. A small price to pay


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Rideau- unless you WANT to count the costs of that labor in so that you can brag about your expensive tastes and habits later
> 
> Smokin- wow. That's a LOT. Sounds like you really nailed down a system


 
Dont really just making hay when the sun shines! I will re-adjust next year but we are figureing on a 3 year rotation on inventory. (Kinda like firewood)


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## save$ (Sep 20, 2012)

Do what ever you can to avoid bringing home plants from the box stores.  You don't want to import bugs and desease that may weaken you garden.   I brought home white fly once.   Now I am having a hard time getting rid of them.  
I bought some potting soil for use next year.  I'll leave the bags outside to freeze hard this winter.  Less chance of importing a problem that way.


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## smokinj (Sep 20, 2012)

I started with crap coil a rail road track set on top of where my garden is for 125 years. Then it was strip of the top soil after that. I have been using 40 bales of straw to block the coop over winter. Once the garden up I mulch between the rowes with it and our chicken coop mulch. Then plow it under in the spring leaving the plants in the ground over winter. Last season we used oats as a cover crop.


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## rideau (Sep 20, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Wow man- you're ambitious.How do you store seeds- just dry area, or in the freezer?
> 
> My garden is only about 30' x 15', and there's just 2 of us eating from it. I've found that the more I mulch with leaves/compost without tilling, the easier it is to pull the weeds that do grow because the soil is so rich the roots don't hold at all. The only downside to it is that the soil is super loose and plants need good support to stand well. A small price to pay


 
I store my seeds in my storage room on the third floor..keep my canned goods there too,  West facing, two large double hung windows.  Keep the thermal curtains closed and the door closed to the house.  Except the hottest two months of the summer room stays between 40 and 60, 40 on those 30 below days.  Used to keep seeds in my dry, cool basement, until the mice found them....now i find the mice.  Only time I put them in the fridge is to break dormancy or to start a cool crop (spinach, beets for instance) mid-summer.

One disadvantage of keeping the curtains closed:  I went in one day last February and the room was cold as H...went over to check the windows and found that something (pressure, wind?) had caused the locks to unfasten on the windows and both upper windows had slid down a good 8 inches.  Warmed up really quickly once I got those windows closed and left the door to the hall open for a while.  Believe me, I check the windows now....don't want fauna or weather in the house.


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## TMonter (Sep 24, 2012)

Here is the water bath canner we use for most of the busy season for fruit and tomatoes. We have a All American 921 we've had for about 8 years we use for non-acid foods that gets used on the same setup.






The canner is a 15 Quart capable unit that we pretty much have to use outdoors until we get a gas range in the next couple years. Actually during the summer having it outdoors is pretty nice.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 24, 2012)

That's pretty serious. It seems like for a lot of the acid foods the boiling bath is almost as quick as the pressure canner anyway as you have to wait for it to vent before cooking and to cool down and rest before opening the pressure system


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## save$ (Sep 24, 2012)

TMonter said:


> Here is the water bath canner we use for most of the busy season for fruit and tomatoes. We have a All American 921 we've had for about 8 years we use for non-acid foods that gets used on the same setup.
> 
> View attachment 74885
> View attachment 74886
> ...


15 quarts!  That is very time saving.   I like doing much of our canning outside on the deck and screen room.  Very easy to clean up, lots of room to spread things out.  We use our camp stove to boil water.  Garden hose to rinse hings down.  Stii use the kitchen stove for processing.   We will be doing more pressure canning now. That I have figured out how to stop the jars from boiling out. (Fill the jars with hot content, then pressure can)


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## oppirs (Sep 27, 2012)

I just picked up this old All American 18 qt.at a garage sale for 8 bux. Seems complete even has a book but no copyright for the year.

Anyone know if this is safe to use? Have not fired it up to see if it can relieve pressure!

Book looks from the 40's, even mentioned how to cook an old hen, pix added.


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## TMonter (Sep 27, 2012)

oppirs said:


> I just picked up this old All American 18 qt.at a garage sale for 8 bux. Seems complete even has a book but no copyright for the year.
> 
> Anyone know if this is safe to use? Have not fired it up to see if it can relieve pressure!
> 
> ...


 
Okay to use for cooking but not canning, you can't hold a reliable pressure for canning with that setup. I believe you can buy a conversion from all american though which would be a nipple and the weight to turn it into a 921 basically.

http://www.allamericancanner.com/allamericanpressurecannerparts.htm

The vent pipe and the weight should make the conversion relatively easy.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 27, 2012)

oppirs said:


> I just picked up this old All American 18 qt.at a garage sale for 8 bux. Seems complete even has a book but no copyright for the year.
> 
> Anyone know if this is safe to use? Have not fired it up to see if it can relieve pressure!
> 
> ...


I'd think that as long as you get the gauge tested, then you could use it as a dial gauge canner. The weighted canner is really easy, however.


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## TMonter (Sep 27, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> I'd think that as long as you get the gauge tested, then you could use it as a dial gauge canner. The weighted canner is really easy, however.


 
Yeah, I just think it would be easier to convert the unit for ~25 bucks myself.

http://www.simplycanning.com/pressure-canner.html


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## laynes69 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have a trillion seeds, when we had our small greenhouse (portable). Last year it split so we put it away. Eventually I want to build a permanent greenhouse, and go back to growing our own plants. Last year a woman I work with said she didn't waterbath her tomatoes when canning, so I asked her how she did it. She just boils the tomatoes, and adds them to a sterilized jar and lid and that's it. We tried it last year and had better results than using a waterbath. We do have a large pressure canner, which we do beets, beans and other non acid foods. When it comes to pickles, we pour boiling brine over the pickles and water bath for 5 minutes. It's not the recommended time according to the FDA, but we have crisp pickles. It was a good year for the garden, hopefully next year brings more rain. Peppers are the only thing left standing, and not for long. Everything was mowed down, plowed under and disked. I added a little lime, a little fertilizer and planted winter rye and medium red clover. Should take care of most nutrient requirements next year.


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## Adios Pantalones (Oct 2, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I have a trillion seeds, when we had our small greenhouse (portable). Last year it split so we put it away. Eventually I want to build a permanent greenhouse, and go back to growing our own plants. Last year a woman I work with said she didn't waterbath her tomatoes when canning, so I asked her how she did it. She just boils the tomatoes, and adds them to a sterilized jar and lid and that's it. We tried it last year and had better results than using a waterbath. We do have a large pressure canner, which we do beets, beans and other non acid foods. When it comes to pickles, we pour boiling brine over the pickles and water bath for 5 minutes. It's not the recommended time according to the FDA, but we have crisp pickles. It was a good year for the garden, hopefully next year brings more rain. Peppers are the only thing left standing, and not for long. Everything was mowed down, plowed under and disked. I added a little lime, a little fertilizer and planted winter rye and medium red clover. Should take care of most nutrient requirements next year.


 
I am extremely wary about using methods because someone else did, or our grandparents did. There's lots of horror stories about things exploding- never mind the poisonings.

The canning guidelines, from what I can tell, are like a seatbelt. Do you need it every time you get in the car? No. Will you wish you had it on when you get in a good accident? Ya, pretty much.


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## laynes69 (Oct 2, 2012)

I've done 1000's of jars of food and never had any problems. I still use a waterbath on some things and pressure canner on others and some things are open kettle. I do use citric acid or lemon juice for tomatoes to bring up the acidity. Common sense has to be used when canning. Everything has to be sanatized and handled correctly as well as the correct foods being picked for canning. Those guidelines are there if someone didn't sanitize the jars, or lids or mishandled things incorrectly. When eating canned foods whether guidelines or not were followed use common sense. If it's discolored, the lid is swollen or smells funny pitch it. We remove bands as soon as things cool, if it spoils you know it when you grab it. I will say though I ferment pickles, peppers, corn and cabbage. Things most people won't touch. If you have a method that's proven then stick to it.


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## Adios Pantalones (Oct 2, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I've done 1000's of jars of food and never had any problems. I still use a waterbath on some things and pressure canner on others and some things are open kettle. I do use citric acid or lemon juice for tomatoes to bring up the acidity. Common sense has to be used when canning. Everything has to be sanatized and handled correctly as well as the correct foods being picked for canning. Those guidelines are there if someone didn't sanitize the jars, or lids or mishandled things incorrectly. When eating canned foods whether guidelines or not were followed use common sense. If it's discolored, the lid is swollen or smells funny pitch it. We remove bands as soon as things cool, if it spoils you know it when you grab it. I will say though I ferment pickles, peppers, corn and cabbage. Things most people won't touch. If you have a method that's proven then stick to it.


 
Right- and the approved methods aren't outrageous. You can acidify and use a water bath, and there's an approved method for it.


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## rideau (Oct 2, 2012)

laynes69 said:


> I have a trillion seeds, when we had our small greenhouse (portable). Last year it split so we put it away. Eventually I want to build a permanent greenhouse, and go back to growing our own plants. Last year a woman I work with said she didn't waterbath her tomatoes when canning, so I asked her how she did it. She just boils the tomatoes, and adds them to a sterilized jar and lid and that's it. We tried it last year and had better results than using a waterbath. We do have a large pressure canner, which we do beets, beans and other non acid foods. When it comes to pickles, we pour boiling brine over the pickles and water bath for 5 minutes. It's not the recommended time according to the FDA, but we have crisp pickles. It was a good year for the garden, hopefully next year brings more rain. Peppers are the only thing left standing, and not for long. Everything was mowed down, plowed under and disked. I added a little lime, a little fertilizer and planted winter rye and medium red clover. Should take care of most nutrient requirements next year.


 
Problem is, you can't always tell from appearance or taste if tomatoes are bad.  They are the one food I would NOT cut corners on.  If you don't want to water bath or pressure treat, why not freeze?


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