# Log Lifting



## DTrain (Feb 15, 2013)

Looking for some advice about chain hoists, block and tackles.  I need to purchase one.  I have my new pile of logs in the back of the property that I need to start processing.  I use a 4' one man saw, and a 6' two man saw to buck the logs.  I want to be able to roll the logs to a poll with a block and tackle to lift the log so I can lower it onto my saw buck.  Any one have any thing to offer on the subject?

Thanks.


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## nate379 (Feb 15, 2013)

Use a chainsaw and cut from the pile?


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## Ashful (Feb 15, 2013)

I'd buy a cant hook (Logrite ~ $100) and a decent 65cc (Stihl 036'ish ~ $300) chainsaw, and have that job done in an afternoon.


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## DTrain (Feb 16, 2013)

Joful said:


> I'd buy a cant hook (Logrite ~ $100) and a decent 65cc (Stihl 036'ish ~ $300) chainsaw, and have that job done in an afternoon.



Have a cant hook.  Not looking for alternatives, that's how I want to do it.


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## Ehouse (Feb 16, 2013)

Amazon has a decent block and tackle for a four part line for $14.60.  you supply the line.


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## Ehouse (Feb 16, 2013)

A chain fall is great for heavier loads lifting vertically, but they tend to bind up pulling diagonally.  They are also slow.  I'd say either a 4 part B@T that you can unreeve down to 2 part for speed with lighter pulls, or one 4 part and one 2 part.  They're cheap enough.  If you really want to get basic, you can rig one from a couple of steel rings or carabiners.  I wear a belt with a double brass ring buckle (you've seen 'em) for emergency use or when I forget a come along and need to pull a lawn tractor on a trailer.  It's a bit of old time sailboat rigging.


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## DTrain (Feb 16, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> A chain fall is great for heavier loads lifting vertically, but they tend to bind up pulling diagonally.  They are also slow.  I'd say either a 4 part B@T that you can unreeve down to 2 part for speed with lighter pulls, or one 4 part and one 2 part.  They're cheap enough.  If you really want to get basic, you can rig one from a couple of steel rings or carabiners.  I wear a belt with a double brass ring buckle (you've seen 'em) for emergency use or when I forget a come along and need to pull a lawn tractor on a trailer.  It's a bit of old time sailboat rigging.



Thanks for that info. Hadn't considered being able to have different config for different uses.  I will roll the logs to my post and lift one end straight up then set the buck under the log.  So I should be able to lift fairly vertically.  Any specs I should consider when buying the blocks and rope?


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## bogydave (Feb 16, 2013)

You'll figure out what works best for you.
500 lb area should work for what I see.
Levers, pulleys & ropes & you can move lots of weight!

Your way the wood warms you up several times in several ways.
Sounds like you have the time to put toward processing the wood.

Move the saw buck close to the pile of logs 
Have fun.


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## Ehouse (Feb 16, 2013)

Just make sure the rope is sized for the block, probably 5/8" or 3/4" and is good work rope rated for the pick, probably nylon, but protect it from the sun.  UV will weaken and destroy the fibers.  Manilla will rot if stored wet.  Look for a B@T with a pinch slot or fall stop on the top block to hold the load in the air, but never get under the load to arrange your gear and don't leave it unattended.  A chain fall/hoist for the vertical lift has the advantage of holding the load in position until you reverse the fall line to lower it.  You can get one for about 50 bucks.


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## Como (Feb 16, 2013)

Something like this with off road wheels?


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## Ashful (Feb 16, 2013)

Como said:


> Something like this with off road wheels?


 
My sailing club has one of those with pneumatic off-road wheels, for lifting sailboats off their trailers to install or remove bottom covers.  It does not roll well on gravel.


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## Valhalla (Feb 16, 2013)

Saw buck... why not just cut it up and toss it in a pickup or small tractor w/trailer. Haul it to your shed for splitting or stacking area closer to your house.


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## MasterMech (Feb 16, 2013)

Valhalla said:


> Saw buck... why not just cut it up and toss it in a pickup or small tractor w/trailer. Haul it to your shed for splitting or stacking area closer to your house.


'cause he's doing it with human-powered saws, not a chainsaw.  I'm sure the sawbuck makes that much easier.


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## pen (Feb 17, 2013)

Make sure responses are aimed at helping DTrain with what HE is trying to accomplish.


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## Ehouse (Feb 17, 2013)

Another advantage of the chain fall is no lower block so it's easy to give the log a slight lift grab the chain and position the log for the next cut.


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## Ashful (Feb 17, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> Another advantage of the chain fall is no lower block so it's easy to give the log a slight lift grab the chain and position the log for the next cut.



I have three chain falls, and two block and tackles, and all have upper and lower blocks.  How would a block and tackle work without a lower block?


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## Dune (Feb 17, 2013)

Joful said:


> I have three chain falls, and two block and tackles, and all have upper and lower blocks. How would a block and tackle work without a lower block?


 
A block and tackle wouldn't, but lots of chain falls have no lower block.


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## Ehouse (Feb 17, 2013)

I think there's some confusion in the naming of these.  The he old chain falls used to get hay up were really block and tackles using chain instead of rope with a sprocketed wheel (I used to have one myself).   I'm seeing the single block version (which is a really, really handy device) referred to as a chain fall/hoist.   Google will get you several pics.  I can't explain how they can get such great mechanical advantage with one small block as most of them are closed construction.  The fall (the part you pull) is looped back up to the block and you can raise or lower with equal ease.  there's a slack loop of chain that droops down and varies in length as you raise or lower, and a single lead with a hook.  It will hold the load where it is if you let go of the fall.  You'll see powered versions on trollys in many shops for moving heavy stuff.  One slick invention I'd say.


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## Ashful (Feb 17, 2013)

The single head type are geared inside, but when I say chain fall, I'm always thinking the traditional type.  You are correct, in that it's really a block and tackle with chain in place of rope, but that's what "chain fall" meant for a hundred years before the geared type!


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## Ehouse (Feb 17, 2013)

Out of curiosity, I googled chain fall, chain hoist, and chain block and tackle.  Almost all the photos for each of these entries were of the single block, single lead "modern" type, with only one or two of the older style.  Probably "chain hoist" or "chain fall/hoist" is best to avoid confusion.


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## Ehouse (Feb 17, 2013)

DTrain, maybe this is more info than you want, but if you always had your logs in the same place to process, you could set up a swinging trolly arm or just a swinging stiff arm (pipe over a post) and use a chain fall/hoist to move them over and then lift them onto the buck.


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## NH_Wood (Feb 18, 2013)

Could you get a heavy pulley and strong rope above the pile (on thick limb near trunk), and use a vehicle (truck) to pull the rope hoist the logs. Just brainstorming. Cheers!


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## smokinj (Feb 18, 2013)

Mount this to a splitter....


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## MasterMech (Feb 18, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Mount this to a splitter....


 
His splitter is kinda short on mounting options.


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## lukem (Feb 18, 2013)

An 8' section of 20" red oak will weight 1,100 lbs.

Assuming you can get it in position to your lift and only need to go vertical, I'd consider building an A-Frame with a chain hoist mounted overhead. Roll/pull sawbuck out of the way...drag/roll log into position...lift the log...put the sawbuck back in place...and lower it down.

You could build the A-Frame out of some treated 6x6 and get a $50 2-ton chain hoist from Harbor Freight.

If you are talking about getting them off the pile and into position that's a different animal.


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## smokinj (Feb 18, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> His splitter is kinda short on mounting options.
> 
> Truck mount works too. I figure someone would have tryed this by now.


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## DTrain (Feb 18, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> DTrain, maybe this is more info than you want, but if you always had your logs in the same place to process, you could set up a swinging trolly arm or just a swinging stiff arm (pipe over a post) and use a chain fall/hoist to move them over and then lift them onto the buck.



Oh boy, was I surprised to come back and see all the posts.  I think i am going to order a chain fall and a block and tackle.  Sounds like the chain fall will be able to lift the heaviest logs.  Will be slow, but the way I'm doing it a few extra minutes is no problem.  Ehouse, can you supply me some more info about that swing arm.  It sounds perfect for what I need.

I'm a stay at home dad and have the time to do it this way.  I like the work.  The old ways fascinate me, and some how I feel like I'm cheating the man by not going and buying a new machine for every task.


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## Ashful (Feb 18, 2013)

Amen to you... But you're buying two machines.  Just not gasoline-powered.


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## Ehouse (Feb 18, 2013)

You're not cheating the man.  The man's been cheating you.  The new ways aren't always "better".  We can pick the technology we are comfortable with.  Put away your weed eater and pick up a scythe.   Hand dig the ditch out to the barn for a new electric service.  You already know this so back to the situation at hand. 

I'm going to use another "old way", with which I'm comfortable, to address it (language, no pics.). 

Your log pile is to your left at, say 10 o'clock,  your buck is at noon.  At the pivot point (fulcrum, center of the clock where the hands join) you have a stout post set into the ground, maybe with a concrete shoe and a couple of back stays.  Now, because your only going to be lifting the load to only about waist height if you're using a man saw, you can eliminate the B&T and the chain fall altogether.  Get a 12" length of pipe to fit over the end of the post for a swivel, a piece of channel for the top/saddle (welded on) and a lever arm (let's call it a tailed davit) to rest in the saddle and held there with a pin.  The tail of the davit arm will hang about 2/3 of it's length toward 6 o'clock when the business end is over the buck.  Fasten a ring or hook to the business end of the davit and use a short chain (about 3') with a grab hook at one end and a slip hook at the other to fetch your logs over to the buck.  Field adjust as necessary.  If you want to use a chain/hoist or B&T,  your post may need to be higher, you'll use a rigid (not dipping) davit and you may want a counterweight at it's (shorter) tail end. 

Ehouse


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## DTrain (Feb 18, 2013)

Ehouse, thank you sir!  That's what I shall do.  Well explained.  I think I'll go with the higher post and rigid arm.

My neighbors think I'm nuts.  Hand saws, mauls, reel mowers, draw knife, planes, raking leaves, shoveling snow. All I know, is my dinner tastes damn good at the end of the day.


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## smokinj (Feb 18, 2013)

DTrain said:


> neighbors think I'm nuts.


 

At some point they will be right! Life is short and your only as good as the last!


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## Ehouse (Feb 18, 2013)

DTrain said:


> Ehouse, thank you sir! That's what I shall do. Well explained. I think I'll go with the higher post and rigid arm.
> 
> My neighbors think I'm nuts. Hand saws, mauls, reel mowers, draw knife, planes, raking leaves, shoveling snow. All I know, is my dinner tastes damn good at the end of the day.


 
Yum!


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## DTrain (Feb 18, 2013)

smokinj said:


> At some point they will be right! Life is short and your only as good as the last!



One day I'll break down.  I'm a true believer that if you don't use it, you'll lose it.  So I hope that won't be for a long while.  Part of why I'm looking for a way to get logs on the buck with out man handling them.


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## WarmGuy (Feb 18, 2013)

Hand sawing that pile seems like a really big job. Are you doing it that way for exercise, environmental concerns, or cash conservation?

I've worked on this pile this week (cutting from the pile), and it is now completely gone:






I've had to do a lot of thinking and levering to get some of these cut, but I didn't hit the dirt or get the bar stuck.


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## DTrain (Feb 18, 2013)

The challenge. More or less.


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## Flatbedford (Feb 18, 2013)

How about instead of hoisting the logs to a sawbuck building a ramp that you can use to roll them onto an elevated cutting surface like a few parallel logs? The ramp could be one log ripped on a diagonal. That would be a good workout with your hand saw. The inclined plane is a very simple solution. No machines to buy either.


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## MasterMech (Feb 19, 2013)

WarmGuy said:


> Hand sawing that seems like a really big job. Are you doing it that way for exercise, environmental concerns, or cash conservation?
> 
> I've worked on this pile this week (cutting from the pile), and it is now completely gone:
> 
> ...


 If that shot isn't a great example of what a MS250 is capable of, I don't know what is!  Good on 'ya gettin' after that pile with that little saw.  Makin' all of us with our big bad pro saws look bad.


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## Ehouse (Feb 19, 2013)

I've used a one man crosscut saw with the added top handle ( can't be beat for sawing beams).  You see them in flea markets sometimes.  If you think they're slow, watch a lumber jack contest sometime.


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## DTrain (Feb 19, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> I've used a one man crosscut saw with the added top handle ( can't be beat for sawing beams).  You see them in flea markets sometimes.  If you think they're slow, watch a lumber jack contest sometime.


 I have to make a top hande for mine.  I've seen those guys.  They are fast.  Slow and steady for me or I'll be toast!


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## Ashful (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a few antique but sharp feller's saws, that have been passed down to me by my great-grandfather, and have used all of them.  It is great fun, for a very short time, but no way for those of us with other full-time jobs to process the ten cords per year.  Good for him, the pile he has to process is pretty small!


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## DTrain (Feb 19, 2013)

Joful said:


> I have a few antique but sharp feller's saws, that have been passed down to me by my great-grandfather, and have used all of them.  It is great fun, for a very short time, but no way for those of us with other full-time jobs to process the ten cords per year.  Good for him, the pile he has to process is pretty small!



That's pile #2 by the way.  First one I did last fall. It's great fun two hours at a time, every other day.  Works out a lot of stress!  Pile #3 will show up in may.  That should be 6-7 cords worth processed in a year.  After the bucking, splitting seems like the easy part.


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## DTrain (Feb 19, 2013)

And I don't think chain saws and splitters are bad.  For the record.  This is just how this wing nut gets his kicks.


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## Ehouse (Feb 19, 2013)

Next thing ya know, you'll be skidding logs with horses.


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## bmblank (Feb 19, 2013)

My FIL skidded logs with his horses fora while. He's an independent logger. Had an Amish friend help him with the training and running. The horses loved it. Just a hard way to make money.

Edit: auto correct wanted to skid logs with houses.


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## midwestcoast (Feb 19, 2013)

DTrain will you do us a favor & upload a vid of the bucking sometime? I'd really like to see how you do it. It's pretty cool that you process without gas or hydraulics IMO. I can see it being very enjoyable (in a hard da#% work kinda way) to buck like that. Get to actually move your body, no screaming saw of death in your hands...
But then again, no screaming saw of death in your hands .


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## MasterMech (Feb 20, 2013)

Ehouse said:


> Next thing ya know, you'll be skidding logs with horses mules.


 
or, got a big dog?


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## Ashful (Feb 20, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> or, got a big dog?



"Fetch, boy.  Fetch!"


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## Ehouse (Feb 20, 2013)

A friend of mine uses oxen.


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## DTrain (Feb 21, 2013)

midwestcoast said:


> DTrain will you do us a favor & upload a vid of the bucking sometime? I'd really like to see how you do it. It's pretty cool that you process without gas or hydraulics IMO. I can see it being very enjoyable (in a hard da#% work kinda way) to buck like that. Get to actually move your body, no screaming saw of death in your hands...
> But then again, no screaming saw of death in your hands .


 Well, it'd be a boring 4 min video.  It takes about four minutes to go thur the log.  That's a 16" diameter or so.  I use my elbow to finger tip to mark the length 19".  I take a hatchet and remove the bark where the cut will start.  Run it slow to start the cut.  For the first third you feel like a hero cause your flying.  Then you get to the middle third and that seems like nothing is happening.  Then it just gets easier til you are thru. I dont fly thru cause I don't want to wear my self out.  After a few logs worth you really adjust you motion.  Economy of motion, spreading the work of pushing and pulling from just the arms to you legs, hips, and abs.  When you get your whole body worked into the motion you can really do it for a good while.  Just like jogging.  Then you do it again.  You stop when you think you have three more left in you.  Live to fight another day!  The part I don't like is wrestling the logs onto the buck.

It's a great sound, The saw, and you can still hear the birds.  The other reason i use these kinds of tools is because I am a stay at home dad with a 2 and 4 year old.  These tools let me work just yards from we're they play.


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## MasterMech (Feb 22, 2013)

DTrain said:


> After a few logs worth you really adjust you motion. Economy of motion, spreading the work of pushing and pulling from just the arms to you legs, hips, and abs. When you get your whole body worked into the motion you can really do it for a good while.​


 

Tell us DTrain, does Mrs. Dtrain like to watch this process?


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## nate379 (Feb 22, 2013)

Wait a darn second... you do all that by hand to "show it to the man" but then you load up the rounds in your truck... 



DTrain said:


> Well, it'd be a boring 4 min video. It takes about four minutes to go thur the log. That's a 16" diameter or so. I use my elbow to finger tip to mark the length 19". I take a hatchet and remove the bark where the cut will start. Run it slow to start the cut. For the first third you feel like a hero cause your flying. Then you get to the middle third and that seems like nothing is happening. Then it just gets easier til you are thru. I dont fly thru cause I don't want to wear my self out. After a few logs worth you really adjust you motion. Economy of motion, spreading the work of pushing and pulling from just the arms to you legs, hips, and abs. When you get your whole body worked into the motion you can really do it for a good while. Just like jogging. Then you do it again. You stop when you think you have three more left in you. Live to fight another day! The part I don't like is wrestling the logs onto the buck.
> 
> It's a great sound, The saw, and you can still hear the birds. The other reason i use these kinds of tools is because I am a stay at home dad with a 2 and 4 year old. These tools let me work just yards from we're they play.


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## DTrain (Feb 22, 2013)

nate379 said:


> Wait a darn second... you do all that by hand to "show it to the man" but then you load up the rounds in your truck...


 I don't own a truck.  Logs arrive by a big old dump truck, though. Then it's up to me and my peavey.  I certainly don't do it "show it to the man".  I do it because I like it, and it feels a bit like cheating because I do it without having alot of other gear.  Money is not flowing out my ears and if I can manage to process all my wood for the cost of a old peavey, maul, Froe, used hand saw, and used hand cart ($140 in all, spread that over years) then I feel pretty good about that too.  Cost, challenge, excersize, ability to do it with little ones around are a few reasons.  

I live near Waldons old stomping ground, but I only process wood like him.  I have lots of modern comforts though, don't worry!  Isn't indoor plumbing the bomb!


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## ewdudley (Feb 22, 2013)

DTrain said:


> Looking for some advice about chain hoists, block and tackles.  I need to purchase one.  I have my new pile of logs in the back of the property that I need to start processing.  I use a 4' one man saw, and a 6' two man saw to buck the logs.  I want to be able to roll the logs to a poll with a block and tackle to lift the log so I can lower it onto my saw buck.  Any one have any thing to offer on the subject?


In old photos I've seen rigs made of two tall wheels with an axle just the right diameter between them that serves as a capstan.  Rope attaches to log and goes around axle.  As rig is rolled forward log is dragged forward and rises up.  I suppose ideally the capstan would be on bearings with a ratchet so the log could be raised with a lever while the wheels stay stationary, dunno, just speculating from grainy photos.


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## nate379 (Feb 22, 2013)

Apparently I can't read.  I thought it said "The part I don't like is wrestling the logs onto the truck".



DTrain said:


> I don't own a truck. Logs arrive by a big old dump truck, though. Then it's up to me and my peavey. I certainly don't do it "show it to the man". I do it because I like it, and it feels a bit like cheating because I do it without having alot of other gear. Money is not flowing out my ears and if I can manage to process all my wood for the cost of a old peavey, maul, Froe, used hand saw, and used hand cart ($140 in all, spread that over years) then I feel pretty good about that too. Cost, challenge, excersize, ability to do it with little ones around are a few reasons.
> 
> I live near Waldons old stomping ground, but I only process wood like him. I have lots of modern comforts though, don't worry! Isn't indoor plumbing the bomb!


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## BrianK (May 8, 2013)

smokinj said:


> View attachment 94148
> 
> 
> 
> Mount this to a splitter....


I just picked up this model at ChinaFreight:






We're going to weld the base to the left side of our splitter just inside the fender:


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (May 8, 2013)

DTrain said:


> Looking for some advice about chain hoists, block and tackles.  I need to purchase one.  I have my new pile of logs in the back of the property that I need to start processing.  I use a 4' one man saw, and a 6' two man saw to buck the logs.  I want to be able to roll the logs to a poll with a block and tackle to lift the log so I can lower it onto my saw buck.  Any one have any thing to offer on the subject?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


Where can you buy a pile like that and how much does it cost? Thanks.....


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## MrWhoopee (May 9, 2013)

Funny, this stuff was the subject of last night's beer table discussion.



The word of the night was "parbuckle"


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## Ashful (May 9, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Where can you buy a pile like that and how much does it cost? Thanks.....


 
In your neck of the woods, it should be free! Weren't you hit worse by Sandy than us?

<-- still daily driving past piles of downed trees, left by road crews and non-woodburning folks with property


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## DTrain (Nov 7, 2013)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Where can you buy a pile like that and how much does it cost? Thanks.....


 Holy smokes.  Didn't realize anyone had made any more comments on this post.  I got a dump truck load for $200 from a tree company.  2.5 cords-ish I guess.


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## Jags (Nov 7, 2013)

Have you come up with a lifting solution yet?

Maybe search Archimedes lever?


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## DTrain (Nov 7, 2013)

OK.  So I am back after a self imposed exile.  I didn't want to come back unit I had lifted them logs.  So here is what I came up with.  After a bathroom project my wife insisted come first.  So I was not sure about how well I could construct a safe crane to lift the logs, so I went with a big 'ol lever.  I saw a smaller version done for lifting rounds.  I scaled it up a big.  I have a few more things to do to it to make it better but so far its helping me get the job done.


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## DTrain (Nov 7, 2013)

Oops.  I don't thing the pic worked.  Anyone wanna fill me in on how to insert a pic into the body of my message?


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## Jags (Nov 7, 2013)

That one worked and it looks like you beat me to the Archimedes lever.


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## DTrain (Nov 7, 2013)

Log on Buck


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## Flatbedford (Nov 7, 2013)

Wow! A cross between ancient Egypt and Little House on the Prairie.


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## DTrain (Nov 14, 2013)

I few pics from todays work.  I am hungry!  And for some reason can't wait for my wife to get home!!









View attachment 117730


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Nov 14, 2013)

Joful said:


> In your neck of the woods, it should be free! Weren't you hit worse by Sandy than us?
> 
> <-- still daily driving past piles of downed trees, left by road crews and non-woodburning folks with property


Yeah like three days later I scored a nice batch of black locust and a mother load of red oak.....


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