# Wood thief - again



## precaud (Oct 21, 2009)

Woke up this morning to a cold rain and a pickup truck backed into my driveway. Hurriedly got dressed, went out, saw my upstairs burn stack uncovered and someone taking an armload of wood to the pickup. Caught in the act and easily a foot shorter than I, he dropped them on the spot, gave me his story (his brother told him to do it), and started putting the wood back, apologizing every step of the way. He had taken about 1/4 cord, and put it all back. I took the truck license number and haven't decided whether to call the cops or not.

What a way to start the day.


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## kenny chaos (Oct 21, 2009)

I'd a kicked his butt and then called the police.
If you're easy, he'll be back.


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## Nonprophet (Oct 21, 2009)

At this point I don't know if the cops would actually do anything or not seeing as he put the wood back.  For sure what I would have done is put the fear of god into that guy--we are armed and dangerous here and if i catch you doing this again I'll drop you right here in the driveway...........

I have NO tolerance for thieves..................

NP


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## precaud (Oct 21, 2009)

Well after writing this, I called the police. You're right, there has to be some consequences for doing this or he'll be back.


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## precaud (Oct 21, 2009)

The police actually responded quickly, took maybe 5 minutes to get here. The license plate number was expired and last registered to a car not a truck, so no trace possible there.

Next season I'm moving all of my burn stacks out of sight from the street entrance. It'll be a lot less convenient for me but that should solve the problem. Like the cop said, these are petty criminals, they won't work too hard to get what they want.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 21, 2009)

They aren't petty criminals, they are scum.


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## precaud (Oct 21, 2009)

Totally agree, Dennis.


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## 'bert (Oct 21, 2009)

Should have put your least favorite maul through the window on the truck!  Would have made it easily for the cops to find.  You are very calm, I would have lost it.


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## dave11 (Oct 21, 2009)

This sort of thing is amazing. It's almost like these people don't consider stealing wood to be actual theft.

But instead of confronting him, or shooting him and going to jail, why not call the police right away so they could have caught him? Let him happily load up while they're on their way. He'd have also been busted for the stolen plate too. He might have seen some jail time.


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## CowboyAndy (Oct 21, 2009)

dave11 said:
			
		

> This sort of thing is amazing. It's almost like these people don't consider stealing wood to be actual theft.
> 
> But instead of confronting him, or shooting him and going to jail, why not call the police right away so they could have caught him? Let him happily load up while they're on their way. He'd have also been busted for the stolen plate too. He might have seen some jail time.



but if the thief took off before the police got there...


i would have called the cops then stalled the guy until the cops got there.


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## burntime (Oct 21, 2009)

I would have offered to sell him what he took for 500 bucks and a copy of his drivers lic.  If any more disappears then call the cops.  I don't play.  If no dice I would call the cops and not let him leave if I had to park my truck in front of him.  He will just be back, he knows your schedule now.  Sad part is that this is pretty petty to a cop even though he violated you property...they will come out and never pursue...


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## mbcijim (Oct 21, 2009)

They make driveway alarms now that go off when someone drives across your road.  They are wireless and are pretty loud in your house.  Maybe consider one?


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## katwillny (Oct 21, 2009)

I would have Put him on his asssss with a quick jab-cross-uppercut to his face. What guarantees me that he will stop at the woodpile. Today is wood, tomorrow may be my car stero the day after that is him harming my family. My motto is, cross my property line, I WILL cross your face and put you on your assss. Then I will call the cops on the grounds of home invasion.


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## billb3 (Oct 21, 2009)

Scum can also come back for retribution scummy acts.

I hope that's the end of it for you.


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## TreePapa (Oct 21, 2009)

Maybe you might not want to wait 'tiil next season to move your wood piles? 

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## Danno77 (Oct 21, 2009)

Man, this is just wrong. I can't even imagine stealing like that. I don't know what I'd do if in that situation. One part of me says that someone should take care of the dirty rotten scumbags, but another part of me says that they probably need a break in life and something more creative (ala cinematic feel good "work off your debt" kind of stuff as in Gran Torino, etc) could be a better solution that wouldn't entice them to retaliate or re-perpetrate. 

I really just don't know. I guess I see it along the lines of stealing food and clothes. While they are definitely symptomatic of a disregard for the proper avenues to obtain basic necessities, that does not mean that they are not also symptomatic of someone who might also be overwhelmed with life's hardships.

Not implying that it's right, merely that it might be symptomatic of being a scumbag AND being in great need (as opposed to being only a scumbag, or as opposed to being in need).

Should you find out that said individual is not in great need and is genuinely a scumbag with complete disregard for other's property, etc, then all bets are off, protect yourself, your family and your property in any way that you see fit.


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## dave11 (Oct 21, 2009)

The guy came there with a stolen plate on his truck, or at least one he got from somebody untraceable.He was not some juvenile delinquent just looking to make some bucks fencing stolen wood. And I wouldn't be surprised if he had a rap sheet, a prison record, and a .38 sitting on the floor of that truck, in case you got out of hand. This is what they learn in prison.

Call the cops and take some digital photos while you're waiting. If he gets away, he'll be easy for the cops to find, driving a pick-up full of wood. Or you could follow him yourself and phone in to the cops while you're driving.


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## blades (Oct 21, 2009)

always if possible get pictures, video even better.  Most of police consider wood thieves petty,  But there is a counter offensive, Trespassing, around here that is a $2k fine if you push it.  Post some private property signs of the approved type for you area. Once one or  two get clipped that way word gets around quick.  I have heard every excuse in the book and a couple new ones lately like the one that swore in broken English that he could not read. Course that piece of pipe I was holding with the wood on one end might have had something to do with his speech impediment.


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## TreePapa (Oct 21, 2009)

Move your good firewood to out of the way and out of sight location. Then stack "spiked" firewood ... maybe M-80s in the splits ? Okay, nothing destructive. There's got to be some way of treating the wood so that the smoke turns a different color and "marks" the theif's location. I doubt he is using a smokeless EPA stove.

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## JBinKC (Oct 21, 2009)

I really don't find this kind of  criminal activity surprising given the economy and the inability to make a living wage on unskilled labor. I would definitely move the wood immediately to the location you prescribed.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 21, 2009)

You shouldn't have to move your wood because of some thief.  Put in a driveway alarm or do like I do, keep a German Shepherd.


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## stee6043 (Oct 21, 2009)

It's kind of shocking to hear so many people say "I'd have kicked this guys arse".....would you guys really risk going to jail yourselves for this deadbeat?  He would probably turn around and sue you...and win.  And he'll get some ungodly settlement which may have been exactly what he was after to begin with.

Who knows...this guy might go around all day doing this HOPING someone will hit him in the face.  His lawyer is on speed dial.  You just never know these days.  Trust nobody, document everything (calls to the police) and don't do anything crazy.  At least that's what I'd do....


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## PunKid8888 (Oct 21, 2009)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> It's kind of shocking to hear so many people say "I'd have kicked this guys arse".....would you guys really risk going to jail yourselves for this deadbeat?  He would probably turn around and sue you...and win.  And he'll get some ungodly settlement which may have been exactly what he was after to begin with.
> 
> Who knows...this guy might go around all day doing this HOPING someone will hit him in the face.  His lawyer is on speed dial.  You just never know these days.  Trust nobody, document everything (calls to the police) and don't do anything crazy.  At least that's what I'd do....



Honestly thats easier said then done.  In the moment depending on the situation it might be tougher to think out all those possibilities while your running out there with a large solid object in hand.


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## Nonprophet (Oct 21, 2009)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> It's kind of shocking to hear so many people say "I'd have kicked this guys arse".....would you guys really risk going to jail yourselves for this deadbeat?  He would probably turn around and sue you...and win.  And he'll get some ungodly settlement which may have been exactly what he was after to begin with.
> 
> Who knows...this guy might go around all day doing this HOPING someone will hit him in the face.  His lawyer is on speed dial.  You just never know these days.  Trust nobody, document everything (calls to the police) and don't do anything crazy.  At least that's what I'd do....



It IS a dilemma as to what to do in situations like this.  The bottom line is that nothing I own is worth dying for.  That being said, if you make yourself an easy mark, they WILL be back if there's no fear.  Thieves are little more than predators, and predators know that if the risk is greater than the reward, it's always better to move on to easier pickings.  That's why I said I'd put the fear of god into him--you come back here and there WILL be consequences......

I travel quite a lot in the 3rd world.  One trick I learned long ago is that if I'm ever in a village or a situation where I feel like I'm being "sized up" as a possible robbery victim, I casually reach into my pocket, pull out my switchblade knife (which are legal in Oregon BTW) flick the blade open, and start cleaning my fingernails with the blade tip.  Eyes usually pop pretty wide open.  I'm not threatening them, but I'm sending a clear message: pick somebody else.  I figure they think if I had that knife so handy, what else might I have to defend myself?

NP


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## Tony H (Oct 21, 2009)

I have one buddy who ran into those situations a couple times and what he did was walk over to the car/truck and if the keys were in it lock the door and call the cops . The scumbag had to run and leave his vehicle or sit and wait for the cops.


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## berlin (Oct 21, 2009)

In NYS you can use physical force, but not deadly physical force, to prevent or interrupt the comission of certain crimes, stealing firewood is among them.


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## PapaDave (Oct 21, 2009)

One of my daughters had a restraining order against an old boyfriend. Didn't stop him from driving by the house, phone calls, etc., etc.
Cops were called more than once, and one of 'em tells me, "a baseball bat to the knees works pretty well"! I didn't like the idea of a criminal record or spending time in jail or prison, so that was out, but telling.
Cops and us may have a different attitude than the courts.
I would definately have confronted him. I don't like anybody but friends, relatives, and neighbors coming on my property without prior permission. This would go triple for a thief. I might have to hurt someone after all the work put into c/s/sing my firewood. Sorry, but, no excuse and no reason good enough for someone to just come help themselves to ANY of my stuff. I've worked my ASS off my whole life for what I have.
If you didn't work for it, buy it or pay the taxes on it, you've got no right to it. I do.

Dave


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## kenny chaos (Oct 21, 2009)

Not sure what you would do?
You weanies better get a plan together
'cause these things do happen fast and they happen
more often and are happening in more places.
What if the house catches fire?
What if Joe Cocker comes in through the bathroom window?

Nice looking shepard there Ligs.
My Bruno isn't worried about no silly pictures and
I won't be shot while aiming a camera.


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## blades (Oct 21, 2009)

put the greenest wettest stuff out front then sit back and watch for the chimney fire.


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## Danno77 (Oct 21, 2009)

KC, 
I am just not sure what i'd do about wood theft at my house. If ANYONE comes into my house they had better be invited. I may not have the "read about it in the news" sized arsenal that my FIL and his buddies have, but mine's big enough and the one gun I have access to will do the job I need it to.

there is no excuse for anyone to be in my house without invitation. PERIOD. IF you run into my house yelling my name, then we have a different story, but in the middle of the night you get shot, my family and friends all know me well enough to not make that mistake, so anyone else is there for the wrong reasons and will help answer my question about whether a close range slug from a 12 guage actually blows your head up or just leaves a really big hole in it.


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## mainstation (Oct 21, 2009)

I am with LL. 
Get a good dog.


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## Duetech (Oct 21, 2009)

Out of sight does not necessarily mean out of mind at (least for that guy) but it might be for the next guy. Moving a ton of wood a second time does not sound pleasant but it might leave an option for moving it a third time. My wood pile was behind the barn last year and sometimes that meant a foot of snow or more to go through to get it. In the winter I use a toboggan at times and a thief would have had to use the toboggan or a 4x4. Maybe I will hide the toboggan too.
     Otherwise I might have to allow myself to be robbed by the high price of heating oil because someone robbed my wood. 911 first! Get help on the way. Sometimes those guys are packin' too.


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## Linux_Tyro (Oct 21, 2009)

You went outside without your shotgun?


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## Danno77 (Oct 21, 2009)

Linux_Tyro said:
			
		

> You went outside without your shotgun?


yeah, I wouldn't even have left the house without some sort of protection.


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## burntime (Oct 21, 2009)

I like the saying I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.  But really, in your house at midnight, well, thats a whole different story then a face cord of wood...


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## savageactor7 (Oct 22, 2009)

Holy cow precaud....you have the patience of a saint.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 22, 2009)

burntime said:
			
		

> I like the saying I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6...


Not to dwell on spelling but *then* is a when word.  By that it would mean you got the death penalty.

I would rather be judged by 12 *than* carried by 6.


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## wahoowad (Oct 22, 2009)

My plan is to sneak outside and 'accidentally discharge' either my .357 or 12 ga. in the air and scare the living chit out of whoever is there. Give em something to think about for the future.


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## burntime (Oct 22, 2009)

Fixed er up  LLigetfa.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

Cops or no cops, I definately would have punched him in the face.  Probably a few times.


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## Birdman1 (Oct 22, 2009)

Never confront a thief without some type of defensive weapon(GUN).

Use of force: You have a right to use force to protect your person or property, you can escalate "up to and
including deadly"  that force as needed to overcome the person you are trying to detain.
You are not obligated or required to retreat in any way. This is not England.

Pepper spray is good stuff, as it is not a weapon, it is a natural agent as long as it is O.C. spray,
(Oleoresin Capsicum) and is, again not a weapon.

Things to remember for use of force are statements along the line of "I was in fear for my safety","I felt threatened"
these are your friend when it comes time to fill out the police report.

Most important is, use of force is usually judged on the opinion of what a reasonable person would do under your circumstances.
So if you do not think it is justifiable(in whatever amount) you are probably right.

As far as not tracking the license plate because it was registered to a car and not a truck. I call bulls&%@, unless they told you the 
plate was stolen, then the pick up the dude was driving is probably sitting in front of the house that the plate was registered.
Prolly just took it off one of his other cars or such.

Prolly handled it the best way out of any though, cause the cops are too lazy to track the dude though the reg. or can't cause it's a 
hot plate. Cause this guy could come at you for revenge from a hundred directions at once and you would have no way of gettin back at him cause he 
is now a ghost.

You think they would go lookin for a vehicle with stolen plates. could be the next Ted Bundy for Christ sake.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

Birdman1 said:
			
		

> Never confront a thief without some type of defensive weapon(GUN).
> 
> Use of force: You have a right to use force to protect your person or property, you can escalate "up to and
> including deadly"  that force as needed to overcome the person you are trying to detain.
> ...



Lots of great points Birdman, but I found putting a little bit of fear into somebody usually goes a long way.  If this guy was a hard-core bad ass, he would have put the fear into the homeowner.  Either way, calling the cops first is the best way to handle it.


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## bren582 (Oct 22, 2009)

I second the dog method if you have one so inclined... Thinks everything is a game.. including scaring away intruders


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## CTburning (Oct 22, 2009)

I would have invited him inside for a decent breakfast and then shot him.


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## gibson (Oct 22, 2009)

My first instinct is always to knock the guys block off.  This instinct was put to the test when I got into it with a guy who was continuously speeding down my street.  Finally one day I saw him coming and rolled my kids (unmanned) "big wheel" out in front of his speeding car.  He stopped and was acting like a tough guy.  I got in his face and "begged" him to please take the first shot.  Of course, he didn't.  It took every fiber of strength in my body not to give him a smack.  Afterwards, with the counseling of my wife, I thought of how stupid it was because I was the one with everything to lose and the dirtbag in the car probably had nothing to lose.  Now my policy is not to get worked up and call the cops, in my small town, they have nothing else to do anyway.  They respond in minutes.  Tough to do when you have the testosterone flowing, though.  Shooting him in the butt may be an option "out-west", but in New England, I'd be going to the state pen for a little vacation.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

but in New England, I'd be going to the state pen for a little vacation.[/quote]

Ah yes, New England.  Home of the Puritans.  That's why we can't buy beer on Sundays!


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## gibson (Oct 22, 2009)

Nonprophet said:
			
		

> stee6043 said:
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How do you get the switchblade on the plane?  I agree though, nothing says "crazy dude that you don't wan't to mess with" like a switchblade!


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## precaud (Oct 22, 2009)

Lots of interesting responses here. Few things will get up the ire of a dedicated wood burner than someone stealing his wood.

This wasn't the first time I've confronted someone stealing from me. The first time I did it I nearly lost my life, so I already know the worst possible outcome and it's nothing to be afraid of.

These moments in time are not normal moments. At no point this morning did I feel afraid or threatened by him. I have no doubt he sensed that. It was one of those events that feels like an eternity when you're in it, and seems almost like it never happened once it passes. There wasn't much logical thinking going on. It was a primal, instinctual meeting of wills and he backed down instantly. My main concern wasn't teaching him a lesson or exacting revenge, I wanted my wood back. Once that happened, it didn't much matter to me what transpired from there. Calling the cops was more of a formality, though getting the patrolman's input on what to do to avoid this happening again was interesting.

Prevention: A dog is a good idea, I've actually been thinking of one lately, but not right now. I live in town and I'd have to finish fencing in the property first. A motion-sensing light would merely illuminate the work area for thieves, so that one is out. I relocated half of my burn pile this spring and I'm not going to move the rest and make life any harder for myself. So I'm thinking a wireless motion detector that triggers a buzzer in the house might be the way to go.

Two days ago it was sunny and mid-70's. Today we had our first snow and tonight I'm enjoying the first fire of the season in the Quad.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

It's nice for us to fantasize about what we would do, but the reality is, you just want your stuff back.  You did the right thing, and thanks for the opportunity for us old folks to express our bravado!


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## precaud (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks CT. Yup, that is the bottom line.

Oh, and speaking of reality... good luck with the live-in MIL!


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

precaud said:
			
		

> Thanks CT. Yup, that is the bottom line.
> 
> Oh, and speaking of reality... good luck with the live-in MIL!



Thanks Precaud.  She spent the summer with us, and next week I fly to Fla. to move her up for good!  Thank goodness she's energetic, helpful and not a busy-body!


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## Tony H (Oct 22, 2009)

CTburns said:
			
		

> precaud said:
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Could always have her guard the wood pile and might as well split some rounds while she's there.


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## Tony H (Oct 22, 2009)

wahoowad said:
			
		

> My plan is to sneak outside and 'accidentally discharge' either my .357 or 12 ga. in the air and scare the living chit out of whoever is there. Give em something to think about for the future.



In some areas that's frowned upon. A couple years ago we had some kids riding 4 wheelers thru the yards and my neighbor 2 doors down shot in the air as the kids happened to be riding thru his yard. After the police showed up he got to go downtown for the evening a 500.00 I think fine and the kids got a "stern" warning there's justice for you.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

Tony H said:
			
		

> CTburns said:
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She's as alert as a Shepheard and I have threatened her with helping me split wood before.  She thought I was serious and was ready to help.  To her relief, when she got dressed for the job, my wife told her that it was just a joke! She immedediately went to workd on the gardens and lawn, that are her two true loves!


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## Nonprophet (Oct 22, 2009)

Sen. John Blutarsky said:
			
		

> My first instinct is always to knock the guys block off.  This instinct was put to the test when I got into it with a guy who was continuously speeding down my street.  Finally one day I saw him coming and rolled my kids (unmanned) "big wheel" out in front of his speeding car.  He stopped and was acting like a tough guy.  I got in his face and "begged" him to please take the first shot.  Of course, he didn't.  It took every fiber of strength in my body not to give him a smack.  Afterwards, with the counseling of my wife, I thought of how stupid it was because I was the one with everything to lose and the dirtbag in the car probably had nothing to lose.  Now my policy is not to get worked up and call the cops, in my small town, they have nothing else to do anyway.  They respond in minutes.  Tough to do when you have the testosterone flowing, though.  Shooting him in the butt may be an option "out-west", but in New England, I'd be going to the state pen for a little vacation.



Just an FYI: A guy in a neighboring town had almost the exact same confrontation with a constant speeder.  Only problem was this guy went home, got his shotgun, drove back, and shot and killed the guy right in his front yard--with his wife and two kids watching.  Turns out the shooter had just come home from Iraq 2 months earlier and he was having problems......

NP


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## Birdman1 (Oct 22, 2009)

CTburns said:
			
		

> Birdman1 said:
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I agree putting a little fear into somebody could go a long way, and also give them the right to use force if you put too much into em'
all that is needed to use force is a perceived threat.

calling the cops, Yep, thats what I meant when I said that Precaud "Prolly handled it the best way out of any though" sorry if it was not clear the way 
I typed it.


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## stee6043 (Oct 22, 2009)

We could take a look at this in a whole different light.  Perhaps a welfare like situation.  Since this man doesn't have enough wood of his own, and since we have so much, shouldn't the government have come and taken some of our wood and given it to this needy wood burner?  Isn't he ultimately the victim here?  Why should we have so much wood while he has so little?  Shouldn't the top 20% of wood collectors be forced to give up some of their wood to the bottom 20%?


........and this was a total joke.....I hope someone laughs......even on a typically very liberal forum.......smile!


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## edthedawg (Oct 22, 2009)

Typically liberal?  What forum you on?? 

This is all very interesting to read thru, tho.  

I'm not a gun-owner (at the moment) nor do I plan to become one any time soon.  We live in a packed little ancient neighborhood - lots of houses and kids all nearby.  I couldn't possibly take the risk of discharging a firearm - even a pellet gun - on my property without fear of having a stray projectile hit someone or something unintended, and with dire consequences.

But we're all gone during the day.  And I got 10+ cord stacked out back sitting unattended.  Kinda...  inviting...  one might say.   :-/ 

I'm thinking the best route is probably a simple security-cam system, so i can monitor the whole house, including the stacks and the driveway, whether i'm upstairs or an hour away...

Funny thing is if a neighbor and i got to talking about burning, i'd GIVE them a handful of my good stuff to try, just to compare notes!  But come and take one split without askin?  I feel like I'd be chucking hammers or running down there w/ a Louisville Slugger in hand.  But in reality, calling the cops is the best route.  Way too much to lose compared to the d*ckhead who has nothing better to do than swipe a buncha pieces of dead tree.


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## rphurley (Oct 22, 2009)

Remember the thread, "Ask Before You Cut,"  posted last spring?  Our friend JDSJ8 handled that pretty well and we all got our chance to groan about the situation.  Posts like these can be cathartic! :coolcheese:


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## gerry100 (Oct 22, 2009)

Beatingt he snot out of the weasel might be gratifying and good for the weasel too, but it gives the weasel some leverage on you.

If I saw this in my front yard. I hope I'd walk up, snap a picture of him and his loaded truck with my cell phone and use same phone to call the cops.

Then you could talk.


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## moosetrek (Oct 22, 2009)

While everyone here loves the 12-gauge idea, the dog is probably the best bet - it'a good deterrent, and the cleanup work is probably a lot less than moving a wood stack.  I know we have 3 and have never had a problem (and they keep the coyotes away from the goats too).  Probably the least likely to end you in trouble with either the law or the bad guy.  Oh, and FYI, you ARE required to retreat to safety in some states; not every state follows the "No duty to retreat" rule.  On the other hand, if someone breaks in the house I've got a big plastic bag and a bottle of bleach so he'll be all ready to go when the cops arrive...


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## drdoct (Oct 22, 2009)

I carry a Taurus pt145 everywhere legal.  It's a pity that the odds are getting so high to meet up with some dirtbag that wants something you've got.  Defense of myself and my property isn't a right disbursed by some politician.  It's a natural fundamental right.  I wouldn't go out and shoot the guy, but I would go out with my gun drawn and disable his vehicle until the authorities got there.  If he ran then he would just lose his truck and I'd let him flee.  If he decided to try and make an aggressive move then he'd end up with 10 .45 caliber holes.  I just don't understand people going out and confronting an obvious criminal (in a criminal act no less) with nothing but his private parts in his hand to defend himself.  Not me, I care way too much for my life and my family's life.  And as some say... firewood today, your shop later, after that your home.  Who knows maybe your daughter or wife if they feel like it later.  Capitulation always leads to more bad stuff.  If you don't feel comfortable getting a conceal and carry license and carrying all the time then at a minimum get a little single shot 12 ga shotgun and keep it in your closet for times like this.


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## Wet1 (Oct 22, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> burntime said:
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Hmmm, shouldn't that actually be "grammar"? Spelling would be "thrn", grammar would be "then vs than".  

Sorry... :cheese:


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## peterc38 (Oct 22, 2009)

bren582 said:
			
		

> I second the dog method if you have one so inclined... Thinks everything is a game.. including scaring away intruders




My woodpile is under 24 hour canine guard


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## LLigetfa (Oct 22, 2009)

Touché

If spelled with an E in that context rather than an A, then yes, it is grammar.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


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## smokinj (Oct 22, 2009)

How Does a Spelling Bee Work?


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## precaud (Oct 22, 2009)

peterc38 said:
			
		

> My woodpile is under 24 hour canine guard



Great pic!


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## PapaDave (Oct 23, 2009)

peterc38 said:
			
		

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Goofy dogs. 
The wood pile is BEHIND you. You're on the DIRT pile. 
They do look alert though.

Dave


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## PapaDave (Oct 23, 2009)

peterc38 said:
			
		

> bren582 said:
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Goofy dogs. 
The wood pile is BEHIND you. You're on the DIRT pile. 
However, they do look alert.

Dave
Well, that's one way to get the post count up.


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## Danno77 (Oct 23, 2009)

PETER! I just saw somebody drive away with 1/2 a cord of your wood! Don't worry, though, your pile of dirt is still there...lol


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## PapaDave (Oct 23, 2009)

Yep get a dog, or 2, or 3.
These little ones will chew the intruders ankles 'til the Newfie gets there to lick 'em to death.


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## Hurricane (Oct 23, 2009)

I think I would have gone out with my two dogs and my shotgun. I do not know if I would have called the cops or not but he would have definitely remembered coming on my property and would have put the wood back with chit in his pants. Not sure if I would let the dogs bite him because they sue you for that. He definitely would have looked down the 12 ga barrel.


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## Birdman1 (Oct 23, 2009)

PapaDave said:
			
		

> peterc38 said:
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I'm a dummy, I thought the dogs buried the wood pile


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## westkywood (Oct 23, 2009)

Agree with the law or not, but some states have a Castle Doctrine which states you can use lethal force if someone is stealing on your property. I would never shoot someone for stealing wood, but I would pull a gun and make them stay there while I called the cops. Thieves get no sympathy here.




			
				dave11 said:
			
		

> This sort of thing is amazing. It's almost like these people don't consider stealing wood to be actual theft.
> 
> But instead of confronting him, or shooting him and going to jail, why not call the police right away so they could have caught him? Let him happily load up while they're on their way. He'd have also been busted for the stolen plate too. He might have seen some jail time.


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## stee6043 (Oct 23, 2009)

westkywood said:
			
		

> Agree with the law or not, but some states have a Castle Doctrine which states you can use lethal force if someone is stealing on your property. I would never shoot someone for stealing wood, but I would pull a gun and make them stay there while I called the cops. Thieves get no sympathy here.



Not quite true.  Castle Doctrine (which is not recognized by all states) deals with "unlawful and/or forcible entry into an occupied home, business or car".  It does not apply to your property, land, detached garage, etc.  Furthermore, many US states still require you to attempt to retreat even if you're in your own home before using lethal force.  And last, you have to reasonably believe the intruder intends to inflict serious injury to the occupants of the home, business or car prior to using lethal force.  You cannot use lethal force to prevent someone from stealing property.  You can use "reasonable force" to prevent theft.  Not lethal force.

Just trying to help keep our hearth.com members out of jail here!!  And my last tip...if anyone on this board ever has the true misfortune of having to use a firearm in self defense and their is litigation that follows, any posts out on the world wide web will ultimately find their way into the court room.  The last thing you guys should be saying in print is "I'd shoot the guy for stealing my wood".  That's going to make it hard on your lawyer.  Just my $0.02 for this Friday....


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## firefighterjake (Oct 23, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> PETER! I just saw somebody drive away with 1/2 a cord of your wood! Don't worry, though, your pile of dirt is still there...lol



  

You guys are a riot today . . . twice you've made me laugh out loud today.


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## kenny chaos (Oct 23, 2009)

All ya need is one of them big rubber snakes and a piece of fishing string
rigged up in your wood pile. :lol:


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## firefighterjake (Oct 23, 2009)

The truth of the matter is all well that ends well . . . and the truth of the matter is we can talk, type or think about what we would do if put in this same situation, but it is only when a similar situation ever presents itself to us that we will know how we would truly respond.

Another truth that is worth bearing in mind is that you never know with whom you're dealing with . . . sometimes it's just the run-of-the-mill coward thief . . . and sometimes it's that one guy who is just a little off kilter who equates human life to be on the same level of a house fly . . . just a thought worth considering.


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## kenny chaos (Oct 23, 2009)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> The truth of the matter is all well that ends well . . . and the truth of the matter is we can talk, type or think about what we would do if put in this same situation, but it is only when a similar situation ever presents itself to us that we will know how we would truly respond.
> 
> Another truth that is worth bearing in mind is that you never know with whom you're dealing with . . . sometimes it's just the run-of-the-mill coward thief . . . and sometimes it's that one guy who is just a little off kilter who equates human life to be on the same level of a house fly . . . just a thought worth considering.






You forgot the part about looking down a gun barrel or running into a raging fire.


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## drdoct (Oct 23, 2009)

I really don't know the laws in other more Liberal states, but in Georgia the Castle Doctrine is in effect.  Here's the thing.  You can't just go out and shoot someone for stealing something (wood/lawnmower, etc) but you can go out and defend your property.  It's up to the thief to not give you the idea that you're in danger or he'll get shot.  So if you're out stealing wood and someone comes out with a gun on you... just run.  Don't try and act tough and act like you're gonna jump the homeowner or you'll be dead.  Here's the part I like which mentions 'property' that's not a habitation.  Wood!

"A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force."




			
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> westkywood said:
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## firefighterjake (Oct 23, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> firefighterjake said:
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Yeah, my thinking kind of applies to being car jacked or dealing with a wood thief . . . or any "high stress" situation where words end and actions begin . . . the point where what you think or say you would do either becomes reality . . . or not.


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## kenny chaos (Oct 23, 2009)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

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I hear ya and I totally agree.  I mentioned earlier that people should think about these things and have a plan of action.
Times are getting worse every day.
I remember the Marine who was washing dishes for a casino in Atlanta.
Walking home one night he got jumped by three or four guys brandishing a gun and a knife.
He took the gun away and killed one of them, wounded another, and just generally beat the others
into submission.  I love those stories.
Few of us can do that stuff and need to know what we can and should do
in different situations.
Guns are certainly not for those inexperienced with high stress situations.


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## westkywood (Oct 23, 2009)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> westkywood said:
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I have to disagree. Check Texas and Kentucky. Remember Joe Horn. He shot 2 guys in the back for stealing his neighbors stuff. Though I dissagree with his actions, the law was on his side. If someone was stealing my firewood, I would absolutely hold them at gun point. I thank God My state gives me the right to protect what I have worked for.


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## meathead (Oct 23, 2009)

drdoct said:
			
		

> I just don't understand people going out and confronting an obvious criminal (in a criminal act no less) with nothing but his private parts in his hand to defend himself.



Speak for yourself pal, my private parts happen to be very intimidating.  :ahhh:

My policy has always been if they're outside the house let the police handle it. If they come inside while myself and/or my family are home (and they'd have to force their way past a very unfriendly German Shepherd and an even less friendly pembroke welsh corgi to get in...so intent would be pretty clear), then and only then will I leave it up to Mr. Browning or one of his numerous associates to handle the issue.

In a perfect world, you'd be able to go beat the tar out of the guy and that would be the end of it...but why go beating on some guy for taking wood from your pile? Sure he deserves it, and sure you aren't scared of him - but what happens the next day or month or year when the guy decides to get even? Maybe you're not home when he comes back and it's just your wife or kids around. 

The way the world works today, the only way I'm going to put someone down is if they need to be put down to protect myself or my family. All the other stuff is replaceable.


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## stee6043 (Oct 23, 2009)

westkywood said:
			
		

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Nowhere is it mentioned lethal force is justified in defending property (links below).  Again, force is justified, but not lethal force.  Someone has to be stealing your stuff with "the use of force" for it to justify lethal force in Kentucky.  Find the definition of "using force" and I suspect it relates to threats, fear, eminent danger, etc.

TX
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm

KY
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf


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## gerry100 (Oct 23, 2009)

A few thoughts...

The theif was stealing maybe $100 worth of wood. Would you want to shoot him if he was stealing $100 TV from the back of your truck?

Less likely because the TV is the result of a credit card transaction while the wood is a result of  your sweat,effort,time and  need to feel independant. Naturally.  it's a more emotional situation.

We can assume that someone reduced to stealing wood is below the 50 percentile in most things, including brains.  We also can assume those on the forum are above that.

If emotion can be kept in check, the smarter person can easily intimidate and overcome the theif without exposing  oneself to risk.

Be cool, and think " what would  Sun Tzu do".


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## westkywood (Oct 23, 2009)

Nowhere is it mentioned lethal force is justified in defending property (links below).  Again, force is justified, but not lethal force.  Someone has to be stealing your stuff with "the use of force" for it to justify lethal force in Kentucky.  Find the definition of "using force" and I suspect it relates to threats, fear, eminent danger, etc.

TX
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378F.htm

KY
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/503-00/080.pdf[/quote]

My property in Kentucky is an extension of my dwelling. The Castle Doctrine is lawful "anywhere I have the right to be", which can be a Walmart parking lot. I've got a good friend that is a prosecuting attorney that verified "anywhere I have the right to be".     Google "Joe Horn" and see what he got away with in Texas. Even had him on audio saying he was going to go kill them. You can hear him rack the shotgun. He was in no danger of his life. He went outside to confront them instead of waiting for the cops. The guy stole his neighbors stuff, not his. One of them ( or both ) got shot in the back.
 Dont think I'm condoning shooting someone for stealing a little wood or a gas can from my yard. I wouldnt do it. But I will do whatever is necessary to protect what I've worked hard for. If I hold someone at gun point on MY property, its then up to the thief at how things play out from there. I live in the coutry. Last time I called the law it took them 20 minutes to get here. 
 Below pertains to the Ky laws.....

(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:

(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or 

(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.


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## TreePapa (Oct 23, 2009)

I am SO glad to live in Calif. where, if my neighbor mistakenly belives I'm tryin' to steal his s**t, he cannot (legally) shoot first and ask questions later. That's the cops' job, tho' to be fair, officer involved shootings are rare considering what they deal with.

My firewood is stored behind the fenceline, but it can be seen when the gates are open (which they are most of the day). No one messes with it, not 'cuz I have a dowg (I don't) or firearms (I don't) but becuz (if they aren't just decent folk who wouldn't steal in the first place), they are wary of the boys in blue. The LAPD does a better job of defending my home and property than I could - not by being physically presnet all the time (of course), but by reputation.

Round here, folks mostly steal stuff they can grab quick and get $$ for - tools, jewelry, 'lectronics, etc. That's cuz most of the folks doing the stealin' are feedin' a (drug) habit and ain't interested in firewood in the first place. It's hard to fence and won't fit easily in a pocket or backpack.

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## kenny chaos (Oct 23, 2009)

TreePapa said:
			
		

> I am SO glad to live in Calif. where, if my neighbor mistakenly belives I'm tryin' to steal his s**t, he cannot (legally) shoot first and ask questions later. That's the cops' job, tho' to be fair, officer involved shootings are rare considering what they deal with.
> - Sequoia






Back in the mid to late 70's, the cops were shooting anything that moved in San Diego.
Twas my first time looking down the business end of a barrel.
I was going to stick my finger in the barrel but he was shaking so bad I was afraid I'd miss it. :coolsmile:


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## TreePapa (Oct 23, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> TreePapa said:
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I wonder who was more afraid? 

I had a number of interactions w/ officers of the peace in my youth, but I don't think any of them ever unholstered their weapons, let alone pointed them at me. I was scared sometimes, but fortunately for me, I don't think the cops were ever scared.

Peace,
- Sequoia


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## Chief Ryan (Oct 23, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> I'd a kicked his butt and then called the police.
> If you're easy, he'll be back.



Dito! I'd beat his ass then push the pile over on him and say you found him that way!!


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## JotulOwner (Oct 23, 2009)

I recently put up a fence to block the view of my stacks. At first, I thought I was being overly concerned, but when I figured out what my supply was worth and how difficult would be to replace it with the same quality (and quickly), I realized that it might be a good idea to make it out of sight (and out of the minds of prospective theives).  

I have too much invested in good quality firewood to let someone just wander up and take it.


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## westkywood (Oct 23, 2009)

TreePapa said:
			
		

> I am SO glad to live in Calif. where, if my neighbor mistakenly belives I'm tryin' to steal his s**t, he cannot (legally) shoot first and ask questions later. That's the cops' job, tho' to be fair, officer involved shootings are rare considering what they deal with.
> 
> My firewood is stored behind the fenceline, but it can be seen when the gates are open (which they are most of the day). No one messes with it, not 'cuz I have a dowg (I don't) or firearms (I don't) but becuz (if they aren't just decent folk who wouldn't steal in the first place), they are wary of the boys in blue. The LAPD does a better job of defending my home and property than I could - not by being physically presnet all the time (of course), but by reputation.
> 
> ...



Actually citizens have more rights to self defense than cops do. Just because the laws are written on the side of the law abiding citizen doesnt mean people are going to shoot you any time its legal. I wouldnt live in any state that doesnt give me my right to self defense. Living in the country, I'm the only one that can defend myself and my property. Bottom line, someone steals from me, I want them to go to jail.......


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## rphurley (Oct 24, 2009)

I have to disagree. Check Texas and Kentucky. Remember Joe Horn. He shot 2 guys in the back for stealing his neighbors stuff. Though I dissagree with his actions, the law was on his side. If someone was stealing my firewood, I would absolutely hold them at gun point. I thank God My state gives me the right to protect what I have worked for.[/quote]

I remember that case.  I suppose shooting two men for stealing your neighbor's property seems reasonable to some people.  I don't know who, but they're out there!  I also like that case out of Texas where the homeowner shot the Japanese student who was lost and banging on his door looking for directions.


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## gibson (Oct 24, 2009)

Nonprophet said:
			
		

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That's probably why my wife told me to get my a$$ inside the house and my buddy on the police force told me to call the cops from now on.  Lesson learned.  Like I said, but should have emphasized more, I had much more to lose than the idiot speeder.  In small towns, it seems that many of their assaults and such derive from things like this.  Probably not surprising, I guess...


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