# How can you tell if a wood stove is "no good"?



## mckenz007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Hello, I recently became a first time homeowner and have very minimal knowledge of wood stoves/chimneys/etc and was hoping for some advice. This summer I called a company to come and inspect/sweep a chimney that utilizes a wood burning insert. Though I thought I'd be way ahead of the game calling in August, they were booked solid until today, November 2nd. Which brings me to my problems.

They didn't end up sweeping it, but instead said "fireplace insert is not lined to today's standards. Should have continuous liner from top of unit to top of chimney. Burn at own risk." 

I understand that chimney may not have a liner (and I'm not shocked to find this out knowing the house was built in the 1950's before that became a real thing). What I don't understand is how they knew this by just sticking their heads inside the insert and looking up. I did the same after they left and all I can see is the top of the insert. They never went up on the roof to look down...

Regardless of that, they also told me that the insert itself was "no good" and that I would need to get a new one (and recommended a stove shop from which to purchase one). I have no clue how old it is, the only markings I can see on it are "ODETTE" and "CANADA". I can't find any info on this maker online. But it can't be _that _old, as it has a built in fan that works when I plug it in and turn it on. In my complete inexpert opinion it seems like it is okay... no rust, door fine, glass intact. On the inside the fire bricks all seem in really good shape, nothing crumbling. So how do I know if it really is bad?? Do I have to just take their word for it? As a twenty-something female, I just want to make sure I'm not being swindled.


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2016)

mckenz007 said:


> They didn't end up sweeping it, but instead said "fireplace insert is not lined to today's standards. Should have continuous liner from top of unit to top of chimney. Burn at own risk."


Yes they are correct on that we would have done the same thing



mckenz007 said:


> What I don't understand is how they knew this by just sticking their heads inside the insert and looking up. I did the same after they left and all I can see is the top of the insert. They never went up on the roof to look down...


They know what they are looking for is all.  You can see it fairly easy if you know where to look usually.



mckenz007 said:


> Regardless of that, they also told me that the insert itself was "no good" and that I would need to get a new one (and recommended a stove shop from which to purchase one). I have no clue how old it is, the only markings I can see on it are "ODETTE" and "CANADA". I can't find any info on this maker online. But it can't be _that _old, as it has a built in fan that works when I plug it in and turn it on. In my complete inexpert opinion it seems like it is okay... no rust, door fine, glass intact. On the inside the fire bricks all seem in really good shape, nothing crumbling. So how do I know if it really is bad?? Do I have to just take their word for it? As a twenty-something female, I just want to make sure I'm not being swindled.


We would need to see a pic of the stove inside and out to give you any determination on that.  But it is very likely that your stove may not be worth putting the money into a liner for it.


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## mckenz007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Thanks very much for the reply, I'm attempting to attaching some pictures of the stove... let me know if there is anything specific you need to see.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 2, 2016)

The only Odette I have ever seen dated back to the seventies. Pretty much guaranteed not to have a liner connected to it but just a "slammer" installation into the fireplace.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 2, 2016)

The pics posted while I was typing. That is a newer one than I have seen.


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## mckenz007 (Nov 2, 2016)

So I just got daring and went up on the roof. The attached photos are the chimney, inside and out, I'm thinking that looks like a liner... Thoughts please!


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## mitchell721 (Nov 2, 2016)

Yea you need a liner. That is a regular Chimney flue for a regular fireplace. When a stove or insert is installed the Chimney  needs a liner. For fire safety. If flue is too big smoke cools in the Chimney and causes cresote to build up and increases chance of a fire. As far as the stove maybe because the baffle there is warped a little but one of the more knowledgeable ppl on here will chime in on that


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2016)

mckenz007 said:


> Thanks very much for the reply, I'm attempting to attaching some pictures of the stove... let me know if there is anything specific you need to see.


Well the stove does not look to be in bad shape yeah the baffle is warped a little but no big deal.  And it has a round outlet which means it could be hooked to a liner relatively easily.   I cant tell from the pics what size the outlet is but you would need to match the liner to that size.  With the size of your clay tiles you will have trouble getting anything larger than 6" in there with proper insulation.  Even the 6" will need to be ovalized to fit.


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## mckenz007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Okay, so its sounds like my options here are to either, take out the insert and use it as a regular fireplace or somehow install a stainless steel liner. Right?  Its a relief that I don't have to buy a new insert, but unfortunately I have very limited funds and can't afford the $1200 they quoted for a liner. I was thinking about order a flexible liner kit from Rockford Chimney Supply (that I've read up on on these forums). Its under half the cost of the quote... would this work for me you think?


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2016)

mckenz007 said:


> Okay, so its sounds like my options here are to either, take out the insert and use it as a regular fireplace or somehow install a stainless steel liner. Right? Its a relief that I don't have to buy a new insert, but unfortunately I have very limited funds and can't afford the $1200 they quoted for a liner. I was thinking about order a flexible liner kit from Rockford Chimney Supply (that I've read up on on these forums). Its under half the cost of the quote... would this work for me you think?


Well no you dont have to get a new insert but you need to find out what size that outlet is.  If it is larger than 6" you will have trouble getting a properly sized liner in there.  And a new insert will be much more efficient.  When you are looking at liners you need to add in the fact that you need insulation for it and it will need to be ovalized to fit.


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## mckenz007 (Nov 2, 2016)

It's 8" 

Should I just get rid of the insert and use it as a fireplace? I was hoping to use it this year to offset oil, but at this rate it's going to cost me a lot more to get in working order then I'll be saving... Regular fires would be better than nothing. 

Then I could save up over the course of the next year to get the new liner and a new efficient insert. 

So I guess I'm just looking for confirmation at this point, is it safe to use this chimney for a just regular fireplace fires? Seeing what you can see that that is.


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2016)

mckenz007 said:


> It's 8"


Yeah you are not going to fit an 8" liner in there.  You might be able to get a big enough rectangle in there but you probably wont have room for insulation which is needed.  Plus later on when you do replace that stove with a more efficient one it will need 6"


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## mcdougy (Nov 2, 2016)

Do you need insulated liner? Or just a "slinky" style stainless liner with no insulation?


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## bholler (Nov 2, 2016)

mcdougy said:


> Do you need insulated liner? Or just a "slinky" style stainless liner with no insulation?


Every liner should be insulated for use with a wood stove and in most if not all cases it is required by code.  But regardless 8" wont fit


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## BrotherBart (Nov 2, 2016)

And now I incur the wrath of the masses. But I heated this joint for 21 years with an insert similar to that and flue tiles that looked like that after I brushed it. No, you don't have an optimal and far from it setup there. But with good dry wood you can use that insert this season until you get the dough together for a more efficient insert and proper liner.

But it is a hell of a lot better than burning in an open fireplace. Ya ain't gonna burn down your house if you burn hot and keep an eye on the flue.

(Under the desk awaiting the rants)

Stick with us and we will get ya through the season.


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## bholler (Nov 3, 2016)

BrotherBart said:


> Ya ain't gonna burn down your house if you burn hot and keep an eye on the flue.


Unless she does.  You have nowhere near enough info to say that.  Yes many people burnt for many years in setups like that and yes many still do.  But the potential for catastrophe is just to big for me to ever say it is ok


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## mitchell721 (Nov 3, 2016)

Yea without a liner a really is burn at your own risk type of thing. You can pull it out and probably use it as a regular fireplace but most of the heat goes up the Chimney. Having the end game being a new efficient insert with insulated liner would be the goal though


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## Destructor (Nov 3, 2016)

A major concern is what the smoke chamber looks like. The flue doesn't look bad but there could be year’s worth of creosote up there. If you use either the insert or the fireplace again there is a risk of setting any build up of creosote in the smoke chamber on fire.


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## Handsonautotech (Nov 3, 2016)

mckenz007 said:


> So I just got daring and went up on the roof. The attached photos are the chimney, inside and out, I'm thinking that looks like a liner... Thoughts please!



You got on the roof once already, buy a chimney sweep tool and clean it up, then burn and check it out every few weeks to make sure it is not getting lined with a thick black crust. If it does, clean it off again.

The stove is an older model because there is no EPA device in there, meaning there is no secondary burn tubes and no catalytic converter. The insert will eat wood like you would not believe and give you very little heat in return. I would not buy wood to supplement your other heating because you will spend more money then if you just bought more fuel. Scrounging free wood would be a benefit though. Buying wood for ambiance would be ok too, but you would not save money this way.

I would suggest asking your insurance agent to come look at it and then ask him to send you an e-mail saying it is ok to use it. This will cover you if there is a loss of property.


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## bholler (Nov 3, 2016)

Handsonautotech said:


> You got on the roof once already, buy a chimney sweep tool and clean it up, then burn and check it out every few weeks to make sure it is not getting lined with a thick black crust. If it does, clean it off again.


She would aslo have to pull the insert and clean the smoke chamber and firebox out and even then it is still unsafe to use because of the risk of co leaking back into the house at the and of the fire.


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## Handsonautotech (Nov 3, 2016)

bholler said:


> She would aslo have to pull the insert and clean the smoke chamber and firebox out and even then it is still unsafe to use because of the risk of co leaking back into the house at the and of the fire.



Would she have this if she pulled the box and made it a regular fireplace?


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## bholler (Nov 3, 2016)

Handsonautotech said:


> Would she have this if she pulled the box and made it a regular fireplace?


Not as likely no.  Open fireplaces have basically an unlimited air supply and dump allot of that air up the chimney even when the fire dies down.  An insert with its limited air supply you have much more risk of stalled draft at the end of the fire especially with an oversized flue with no real connection.  But every stove with any appliance that burns fuel should have a co detector.


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