# Kuuma worth it?



## tjcole50 (Sep 18, 2015)

Scratching the owb off the list. Any boiler for the matter is off the list right now. Any kumma vaporfire 100 users out there that love/hate the furnace? Looking for something to burn 10-12 hours is this possible? 70s built cathedral ceilings A frame or chalet. Dont have a walk out basement but windows are large and will make a great chute. Is the price worth it over the drolet tundra??


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## Wisneaky (Sep 18, 2015)

I don't own a Kuuma, but everything I have read about them is good. I have not seen one negative thing about them except maybe the cost. There are people on here that own them so I'm sure they will chime in soon. @JRHAWK9 @DaveH


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## brenndatomu (Sep 18, 2015)

Ditto this ^ ^ ^.
Don't forget about @STIHLY DAN


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## tjcole50 (Sep 18, 2015)

Just wonder if the price really offeres that much more over the tundra. A 10 hour burn that can manage 70 degrees in the house at 10 degrees f outside and im sold haha is that to much to ask for?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 18, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> Just wonder if the price really offeres that much more over the tundra. A 10 hour burn that can manage 70 degrees in the house at 10 degrees f outside and im sold haha is that to much to ask for?


Well, you are comparing a Chevy Cavalier against a Cadillac. The Tundra is probably a 10 year (maybe more, dunno?) lifespan furnace if installed and run correctly. The Kuuma is a 30 year (+) furnace unless you absolutely abuse the crud outta it.
Both should do a 10-12 hour burn, but that has more to do with the heat load of your house than anything. The Tundra, is fairly efficient, but the Kuuma will squeeze every last BTU out of your wood, and the Kuuma is almost _idiot proof_, load and go! The Tundra requires just a bit more attention, not much, but definitely more prone to operator error.
Drolet has good customer service, I'll let the guys that have the Kuumas speak for themselves but from everything I have ever heard,  Kuumas CS is unparalleled. The owner will talk you through any problem at almost (I did say _almost_) any hour. 
You will need to do the normal chimney cleaning with the Tundra...the owner of Kuuma says he has NEVER "cleaned" his chimney (inspection only) in something like 35 years. The pics I have seen of the chimney and heat exchanger of a Kuuma when pulled apart for inspection had nothing more than a little white/tan dust...impressive!
So bottom line, once again, it's your party, and you're buying, whadaya want?
.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 18, 2015)

I really like my Kuuma!  I would buy it all over again and wouldn't change a thing from how things are currently setup. Although this is my first and only wood furnace, so I have nothing to compare it to.  It's sooo easy to operate, even a caveman could do it.  The computer takes ALL the guesswork out of maintaining the optimum fire.  There is no visible smoke (pretty much only water vapor over under 32°) and my chimney only had a very thin layer of white powder after the first year of burning.  Do a search on here for photos I posted of my chimney.  The place who installed my chimney even told me there was no reason to clean it.......and they are in the business of installing/maintaining/cleaning them.  The very top of my chimney still looks like new and doesn't have that black stained look most have after burning a year.

As far as your heating requirement, this will depend on your heat load.  Our house has a very high heat load when it's very cold out (talking frost buildup on INTERIOR bathroom wall corner) and at times I wish it was capable of burning through wood a bit faster!  lol   We do have a lot of VOLUME to heat though.  We don't care for it too warm, so we maintain 66°-68° in the house when it's very cold out.  I weigh all my wood and keep a spreadsheet in order to track wood usage, BTU output and other things.  Also keep a minute timer on my LP furnace to track it's usage.  Last winter, when burning wood,  98% of the BTU's came from wood, 2% from LP.  In a typical mid-western winter it would be pretty much impossible to burn through more than 6 cord a heating season with the Kuuma.  I compared our heating requirement of our log cabin style house to that of my parents split level 2,800SF ranch by comparing our fossil fuel bills from previous years and similar HDD's (heating degree days).  Theirs is very well insulated and ours, umm, not so much.  Based on their heating requirement, our Kuuma would pretty much heat them out of their house on low!!  Bottom line is, a lot depends on your heating requirement.

As far as burn times, one thing to keep in mind....wood only has so many BTU's per pound.  If you burn 50lbs of wood in 10 hours vs 5 hours you will have half the heat output per hour during those 10 hours as you would in 5 hours....assuming constant furnace efficiency.  Everybody wants to talk about burn times.  That's great, but if you can't keep your house warm burning 60lbs a wood in 10 hours, that 10 hour burn time doesn't mean much anymore, does it? 

Oh, customer service.  How many times have you called a CS line and spoke directly to the owner??  This is what happens when you call Lamppa.  It doesn't matter if you call or email, you WILL get a response within 24 hours.  There is no "press 1 for english" or no CS center to call into with under-trained monkeys answering the phones reading off of a canned sheet of how to answer questions.  It's a small family ran business in N. MN and they truly do care. 

As far as is it worth it...?  That's for you to decide.  Just remember, you get what you pay for.


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## tjcole50 (Sep 18, 2015)

Nice review! We have a 70s insulated A frame and high volume heating ceilings. How about the basement ? Does the unit radiate heat and keep the basement up? Do you have a walkout basement or windows to get wood to? Thanks im going to call them soon and get their opinion as well


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## Wisneaky (Sep 18, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> Nice review! We have a 70s insulated A frame and high volume heating ceilings. How about the basement ? Does the unit radiate heat and keep the basement up? Do you have a walkout basement or windows to get wood to? Thanks im going to call them soon and get their opinion as well


The owner is a really nice person to talk to. I think he is on here @lampmfg


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 18, 2015)

If I go away from hydronic heat Kuuma is where I'm heading.  Is it really that much more?


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## Wisneaky (Sep 18, 2015)

Buzz Saw said:


> If I go away from hydronic heat Kuuma is where I'm heading.  Is it really that much more?


*$5,295* plus shipping


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 18, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> About 5k plus shipping I believe.


5k more or 5k total?   For me since I'm now in my forever home paying an extra $3500 to do it once would be well worth it to me.

Does the Kuuma and the Tundra require the same size chimney or are they different. That could be a hidden cost worth considering as well.


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## tjcole50 (Sep 18, 2015)

Both 6" i believe. I like what im reading about the kuuma being a feed it and leave it system. No gojng back down to thr basement and farting around with air controls. Just feed and let it do what it does very slick.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 18, 2015)

That is the total price. Both use 6" Flue. If you can afford it do the Kuuma over the Tundra.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 18, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> *$5,295* plus shipping


Looks like they had a price increase recently...'bout 7% ish. They were $4950 +shipping...steel prices I'm sure


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 18, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> Nice review! We have a 70s insulated A frame and high volume heating ceilings. How about the basement ? Does the unit radiate heat and keep the basement up? Do you have a walkout basement or windows to get wood to? Thanks im going to call them soon and get their opinion as well



It heats the basement just fine with the radiant heat.  I close all the supply vents down there and just let the radiant heat keep it warm.  Temps between the basement, main floor and loft don't differ more than a few degrees normally.  We have a walkout, see attached.  Old photo but you get the idea.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 18, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Looks like they had a price increase recently...'bout 7% ish. They were $4950 +shipping...steel prices I'm sure



Could also be supply/demand.  If they have a hard time keeping up with demand (which I know they have in the past) simple economics state to raise prices.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 19, 2015)

I think the increase is do to the epa paper work and fee's.  You will not regret getting a Kuuma. I have had mine for 3 or 4 winters now, (sorry but old age is getting to my memory) I have had 0 issues with it and it still looks like new. I had a woodstove in the basement before the Kuuma and I hated it, Always having to run down and change air adjustments. The Kuuma will burn exactly even for the whole load until the fuel runs out. I would/will never have any other unit than this. Life has been much better with this unit. I also have a review write up on here. Kuuma review? I should make a follow up one now that its been a few years. Maybe when the snow flies and daylight is limited.

P.S made in America, with American steel, by Americans.


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## tjcole50 (Sep 20, 2015)

What kind of burn times on a full load in a vf100 you get stihly? Say under 10 F. They really have that even of a heat clear down to coals? I have a couple friends with furnaces and they always drop 5-10 degrees over night at the end of a cycle


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## laynes69 (Sep 20, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> What kind of burn times on a full load in a vf100 you get stihly? Say under 10 F. They really have that even of a heat clear down to coals? I have a couple friends with furnaces and they always drop 5-10 degrees over night at the end of a cycle



5 to 10 degree drop, that's crazy! Either they are losing the fire early, or their house isn't too tight. We don't have a kuuma, but we are usually on the mark or within a degree. We did however have that temperature swing problem with our old furnace.


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## maple1 (Sep 20, 2015)

Keep in mind that I think there is a line-up to get one if you decide to get one. Or there used to be. So don't expect to be able to get one the day after you decide to get one - so don't leave to the last minute. But a call to them would tell that one for sure.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 20, 2015)

laynes69 said:


> We don't have a kuuma, but we are usually on the mark or within a degree


Same here. 1 or 2 degrees. Something is really wrong if we dropped 5 degrees overnight, I'd be ripping stuff out to re-do things if I had 10 degree drop, and Mrs brenn would be firin up the oil!


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 20, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> They really have that even of a heat clear down to coals?



All wood burning furnaces will have a bell shaped heat output cycle.  The Kuuma's will be more flat because of the computer control.  The max BTU's won't be quite as high because there is never a "raging fire".  This means the BTU's released during the beginning and the ends of the burn cycle will be a bit more though resulting in a more even heat throughout the burn cycle.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 20, 2015)

tjcole50 said:


> What kind of burn times on a full load in a vf100 you get stihly? Say under 10 F. They really have that even of a heat clear down to coals? I have a couple friends with furnaces and they always drop 5-10 degrees over night at the end of a cycle



there are many factors to deal with on that question. Wood, house insulation ,windows, wind, make up air, chimney. and so on. But for me 10* is the magic number, at that temp it is still set on low and a full load will cruise for at least 12 hours. As I need to increase output and turn up the furnace to run hotter the burn times will decrease. No matter what though, on any temp you absolutely will get an 8 hr burn under any condition. My man room is in the basement next to the unit, I just love watching the computer open up the air a bit then close keeping the unit gasifying at an optimal rate. It will do this mostly the 1st hour, then gasify for the next 6, then go back to modulating till the fuel is gone. That is on a 10 hr load. I almost never fill it up, I only fill on a wicked cold Friday or sat night when I know I want to sleep in. My burn times I aim for are 10 hr-6hr then 8hr. That works best for my schedule.


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## Monaco (Sep 20, 2015)

I ordered mine in May, it's going to be delivered next week or so. Super excited about it... And going to attempt to install it myself, but might have to hire a guy to build a plenum. We're in a 2000 sq ft cabin style home with iffy insulation and old windows. I got the bigger model for this reason.

I researched everything, weighed the pros and cons and decided to buy once, cry once. I don't always buy the very best but in this case I feel like I have. Since I'm sitting on 20 acres of oak and maple, wood is going to be very cheap, and I don't think I'll regret this furnace.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 20, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I don't always buy the very best but in this case I feel like I have


Yup


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## dromlyn (Sep 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> All wood burning furnaces will have a bell shaped heat output cycle.  The Kuuma's will be more flat because of the computer control.  The max BTU's won't be quite as high because there is never a "raging fire".  This means the BTU's released during the beginning and the ends of the burn cycle will be a bit more though resulting in a more even heat throughout the burn cycle.



Due to the computer control, I'm curious what happens when the electricity goes out. How does the Kuuma handle this?


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 21, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> Due to the computer control, I'm curious what happens when the electricity goes out. How does the Kuuma handle this?



When power is cut to the computer it automatically closes the damper which cuts off the primary air supply.  It is recommended your supply ducts be large enough for gravity feed and your dampers be setup to allow for gravity feed.


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## dromlyn (Sep 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> When power is cut to the computer it automatically closes the damper which cuts off the primary air supply. It is recommended your supply ducts be large enough for gravity feed and your dampers be setup to allow for gravity feed.



Good to know. Can you still run it at all in a pinch?



tjcole50 said:


> Any kumma vaporfire 100 users out there that love/hate the furnace? Looking for something to burn 10-12 hours is this possible? 70s built cathedral ceilings A frame or chalet. Dont have a walk out basement but windows are large and will make a great chute. Is the price worth it over the drolet tundra??



I'm curious how everyone feels the "Max Caddy" compares to the Tundra and the VaporFire 100


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 21, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> Good to know. Can you still run it at all in a pinch?



yes, the plenum is as big as it is so one can use it for gravity airflow.



dromlyn said:


> I'm curious how everyone feels the "Max Caddy" compares to the Tundra and the VaporFire 100



Following is my opinion........Tundra is not in the same league as the other two.  I also think the Max Caddy may be capable of putting out more MAX BTU's, as it's for sure capable of burning wood faster than the Kuuma.  The Kuuma is still more efficient, easier to operate and cleaner burning though.


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## dromlyn (Sep 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I also think the Max Caddy may be capable of putting out more MAX BTU's, as it's for sure capable of burning wood faster than the Kuuma. The Kuuma is still more efficient, easier to operate and cleaner burning though.



Just called a dealer about a Max Caddy ... I think they're a bit less expensive too (maybe around 3.5k compared to the Kuuma's 5.5k).


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 21, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> Just called a dealer about a Max Caddy ... I think they're a bit less expensive too (maybe around 3.5k compared to the Kuuma's 5.5k).



Be careful about listening to any dealer........they have vested interest and it's amazing how the products they happen to offer and make the most profit on are the best out there.     ;-)


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## laynes69 (Sep 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yes, the plenum is as big as it is so one can use it for gravity airflow.
> 
> 
> 
> Following is my opinion........Tundra is not in the same league as the other two.  I also think the Max Caddy may be capable of putting out more MAX BTU's, as it's for sure capable of burning wood faster than the Kuuma.  The Kuuma is still more efficient, easier to operate and cleaner burning though.



Just because the combustion of a Caddy furnace isn't computerized, doesn't mean it's not efficient. Side by side a Caddy will produce the same flue temperatures as will the Kuuma, while producing a clean burn. The Max Caddy will also produce more heat not because of quicker combustion, but a much larger firebox. More fuel, more heat. The Caddy line of furnaces are not difficult to operate. You open the damper, load, then close the damper. From there, the house temperature determines the stage of fire.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 21, 2015)

laynes69 said:


> Just because the combustion of a Caddy furnace isn't computerized, doesn't mean it's not efficient. Side by side a Caddy will produce the same flue temperatures as will the Kuuma, while producing a clean burn. The Max Caddy will also produce more heat not because of quicker combustion, but a much larger firebox. More fuel, more heat. The Caddy line of furnaces are not difficult to operate. You open the damper, load, then close the damper. From there, the house temperature determines the stage of fire.



Never said it wasn't efficient    I just wish there was a single standard to test these furnaces so we all not just guessing. 

It has a larger firebox too, but it's also able to burn wood faster.  Like Stihly said above, our Kuuma's physically can't burn a full firebox worth of wood in any less time than 8 hours or so.  Burning 50lbs of wood in 8 hours puts out less average BTU's per hour than burning it in 6 hours....assuming the same efficiency.  Just because it has more fuel doesn't necessarily mean it has to burn it quicker.  The older Kuuma's (like the one Daryl, the owner has) had an 20" deep firebox.  By increasing it to 22" he got longer burn times but didn't change the BTU rating per hour of the unit.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 21, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> assuming the same efficiency


That's the thing, set the Kuuma on high and set the Max on high (damper open) in that scenario I guarantee the Kuuma is WAY more efficient


JRHAWK9 said:


> The older Kuuma's (like the one Daryl, the owner has)


I would be interested in knowing how they controlled the burn on those old Kuumas, before computers, like when they started in the 70s? I hear it burned just as clean


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 21, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> That's the thing, set the Kuuma on high and set the Max on high (damper open) in that scenario I guarantee the Kuuma is WAY more efficient
> 
> I would be interested in knowing how they controlled the burn on those old Kuumas, before computers, like when they started in the 70s? I hear it burned just as clean



I agree.  The more the primary damper is open the less efficient it will be.  When the Kuuma gets going, the primary damper is closed for the majority of the burn, allowing the secondary air to enter and the gassification process to take place.  It opens and closes by itself right after a fresh load, then goes on cruise control for hours and then opens and closes towards the end of the burn.  

What I would like to see is another switch or something that could allow you to override the computer to open up the damper when the thermostat calls for heat in the event you would ever need more heat.  That would probably really decrease the overall efficiency though.


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## Monaco (Sep 22, 2015)

Does the Kuuma come with a thermostat, and if not, or can it be hooked up to one?


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Does the Kuuma come with a thermostat, and if not, or can it be hooked up to one?



yes, it comes with a thermostat, which controls the blower motor.  When the thermostat calls for heat the blower turns on high.  Unlike the Caddy line of furnaces, the thermostat does not control the level of burn or the primary damper.  Those are solely controlled by the dial on the computer for whatever level of burn you want (low to high.....it's a variable potentiometer).


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## 3fordasho (Sep 22, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yes, it comes with a thermostat, which controls the blower motor.  When the thermostat calls for heat the blower turns on high.  Unlike the Caddy line of furnaces, the thermostat does not control the level of burn or the primary damper.  Those are solely controlled by the dial on the computer for whatever level of burn you want (low to high.....it's a variable potentiometer).




Question for Kuuma owners-  is the air inlet damper control an open/closed type affair or does it have the ability to partially open the inlet?


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 22, 2015)

3fordasho said:


> Question for Kuuma owners-  is the air inlet damper control an open/closed type affair or does it have the ability to partially open the inlet?




-THIS- video will answer that.


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## Monaco (Sep 22, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yes, it comes with a thermostat, which controls the blower motor.  When the thermostat calls for heat the blower turns on high.  Unlike the Caddy line of furnaces, the thermostat does not control the level of burn or the primary damper.  Those are solely controlled by the dial on the computer for whatever level of burn you want (low to high.....it's a variable potentiometer).



This video makes it seem like you'd have to go down to the furnace to adjust the house heat.Is there another normal thermostat that you could put upstairs to control the blower speed?

I noticed the blower has two speeds. Would there be a benefit of a variable-speed blower?


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## Highbeam (Sep 22, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> Just called a dealer about a Max Caddy ... I think they're a bit less expensive too (maybe around 3.5k compared to the Kuuma's 5.5k).



I've compared these stoves and the max caddy, while much cheaper and EPA certified today, is much dirtier. It's a dirty burner at 6.6 gph which makes it illegal in some states such as mine. Compare that to sub 1 gph for the kuuma but nearly double the cost, a four month waiting line, and no EPA approval to date.

Both great furnaces and I would be thrilled to have either one of them. These guys seem to be head and shoulders above the competition today. As more brands develop new furnaces to meet EPA guidelines we will have more to choose from.


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## Highbeam (Sep 22, 2015)

Wisneaky said:


> *$5,295* plus shipping



And that shipping is going to be expensive. I recall it is two crates and total weight over 700#.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> Is there another normal thermostat that you could put upstairs to control the blower speed?


No. I don't have one but I have investigated these things pretty well and have talked with Kuuma several times



Monaco said:


> This video makes it seem like you'd have to go down to the furnace to adjust the house heat


No, I think most of these guys will tell you that they leave it on low most of the time and there would really be no reason to change more than once per day, and then only if some drastic weather front came through.


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## Monaco (Sep 22, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> And that shipping is going to be expensive. I recall it is two crates and total weight over 700#.



*$ 277.03 + $100 crating *


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## Highbeam (Sep 22, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> I'm curious how everyone feels the "Max Caddy" compares to the Tundra and the VaporFire 100



Looking at that website, the MSRP of the max caddy is 4200$ PLUS you have to buy the blower separately (specs say required) for another 1200$. So bam, we're back up to 5400$ for the max caddy. It has a window!


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## Wisneaky (Sep 22, 2015)

Isn't the max caddy also a required dealer install?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 22, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Looking at that website, the MSRP of the max caddy is 4200$ PLUS you have to buy the blower separately (specs say required) for another 1200$. So bam, we're back up to 5400$ for the max caddy. It has a window!


There are dealers out there that will sell them for MUCH less than that...I know personally (well, through a friend) that there is one in the NE corner of OH that will (does)


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## Highbeam (Sep 22, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> There are dealers out there that will sell them for MUCH less than that...I know personally (well, through a friend) that there is one in the NE corner of OH that will (does)



That is good information and really critical to this discussion. We saw "about 3500$" earlier upthread but don't know if that includes the silly expensive blower. The efficiency of the max caddy is quite good and almost 5 CF of firebox is also nice. Still a dirty burner but EPA certified for most states.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 22, 2015)

Here's how I see it.  The Kuuma's primary damper is designed and computer controlled to constantly keep the fire in an optimum state of burn which results in the high efficiency and a cleaner burn.  It keeps the fire in the gassification stage as long as it can by closing off primary air to allow the heated secondary air to enter the firebox at designed locations in order for gassification process to take place.  I'd think you'd lose a lot of efficiency if you decided to somehow change the damper control over so the house thermostat had some control over the primary air supply.  For instance, say the fire is in the middle of a burn and the computer has the damper shut allowing secondary air to fuel the gassification process and then your thermostat calls for heat which would open up the damper.  As soon as that damper opens to allow primary air in the gassification stops and you lose the clean, efficient burn. Will it release more heat....sure, at the expense of efficiency and burn times.  

Another thing to keep in mind.  There is no such thing as a raging fire with the Kuuma.  It burns front to back while burning the gasses at the very front top of the firebox.  If you open up the door quickly after about an hour or so of a fresh load, you'll catch a glimpse of the bright blue flames in front and above the actual wood.  What you are seeing is the tail end of the gassification, which quickly stops when the door is opened.


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## lampmfg (Sep 22, 2015)

As far as I know the EPA testing on our competitor was done to the wood stove criteria.  There has been many discussions about this on multiple forms in the past so I won't get into here again.  If you look here at the new criteria http://www2.epa.gov/residential-woo...y-requirements-wood-fired-forced-air-furnaces you can see what the emissions requirements will be to gain actual EPA furnace certification will be going forward in 2016 and 2020.  Needless to say it will require a very clean burn.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 22, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> If you open up the door quickly after about an hour or so of a fresh load, you'll catch a glimpse of the bright blue flames in front and above the actual wood. What you are seeing is the tail end of the gassification, which quickly stops when the door is opened.


Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification 

That's why they don't put a winder in the door, they don't want anybody to see how the magic happens! (Joke) 

Good to see a post from y'all @lampmfg , been a while. I'm sure you guys are busy and have better things to do than argue "best furnace" with us shmucks


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## dromlyn (Sep 22, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> That is good information and really critical to this discussion. We saw "about 3500$" earlier upthread but don't know if that includes the silly expensive blower. The efficiency of the max caddy is quite good and almost 5 CF of firebox is also nice. Still a dirty burner but EPA certified for most states.



That's a good question on the blower. I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow. I'll keep you guys informed on what I find out if you're interested.


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## lampmfg (Sep 22, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification
> 
> That's why they don't put a winder in the door, they don't want anybody to see how the magic happens! (Joke)
> 
> Good to see a post from y'all @lampmfg , been a while. I'm sure you guys are busy and have better things to do than argue "best furnace" with us shmucks



I always enjoy reading what the passionate wood burners on here have to say.  We have been very busy with furnaces and sauna stoves.  I think all the positive PR of the health benefits on the latter have really increased awareness and sales


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 22, 2015)

lampmfg said:


> I always enjoy reading what the passionate wood burners on here have to say.  We have been very busy with furnaces and sauna stoves.  I think all the positive PR of the health benefits on the latter have really increased awareness and sales


Health benefits from saunas,Can you elaborate?


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## Highbeam (Sep 22, 2015)

If the EPA has a new test method for wood furnaces and the old EPA approved furnaces used the EPA stove test then will those certifications be rejected until the old EPA approved furnaces test and pass the new test? States like mine that still insist on a gph emissions rate will be unable to recognize the furnace EPA certification so will be stuck with no wood furnaces possible. Too bad really. The political machine is unlikely to fix these things when they see woodburners as a minority.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 22, 2015)

dromlyn said:


> That's a good question on the blower. I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow. I'll keep you guys informed on what I find out if you're interested.


If not with the blower, let me know, if you are in western PA, I can point ya in the right direction for a good deal on a "Max"


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> This video makes it seem like you'd have to go down to the furnace to adjust the house heat.Is there another normal thermostat that you could put upstairs to control the blower speed?
> 
> I noticed the blower has two speeds. Would there be a benefit of a variable-speed blower?



The Kuuma has a house thermostat, when it calls for heat the fan comes on in high. The fan most likely will be running in low anyhow. When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting. The damper has 4 steps. The temp setting on the computer is for desired (need) for heat. 1 house may be bigger than another, Minnesota is much colder than NH so in MN they might run there unit on medium. This also helps in shoulder season. In my situation low on the computer is good till 0*. 10* if its also really windy at the time. I have mine on low 99.5% of the time. I also don't use the house T-stat unless it's below 0* outside, I prefer to let it just cruise on low fan constantly feeding easy heat. There is no temp swings at all.


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## Monaco (Sep 22, 2015)

I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.


STIHLY DAN said:


> The Kuuma has a house thermostat, when it calls for heat the fan comes on in high. The fan most likely will be running in low anyhow. When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting. The damper has 4 steps. The temp setting on the computer is for desired (need) for heat. 1 house may be bigger than another, Minnesota is much colder than NH so in MN they might run there unit on medium. This also helps in shoulder season. In my situation low on the computer is good till 0*. 10* if its also really windy at the time. I have mine on low 99.5% of the time. I also don't use the house T-stat unless it's below 0* outside, I prefer to let it just cruise on low fan constantly feeding easy heat. There is no temp swings at all.



It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.

Question: Our wood this first year is going to be iffy... This winter I will be burning maple and oak that has been down for a year.  I know this is not ideal - but will I be screwing anything up? What if I use all of the "wrist" sized round pieces instead of bigger, wetter splits?

Background: I have so much wood here that I don't think I want to spend upwards of $100/rick to get pre-seasoned (kiln-dried from the major suppliers is the only way you can be sure around here.)

Thanks so much for your advice.


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## Wisneaky (Sep 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.
> 
> 
> It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.
> ...


a moisture meter would be a good way to tell. Try to use wood under 20%. The maple might be okay if it has been split, but I'd stay away from the oak because that will need longer to dry.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 22, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> When the high speed fan runs it is pulling more heat out of the exchanger, the computer sees this and starts opening the damper in steps to keep the temp of the unit at its setting.



While it's true you are pulling a bit more heat out of the heat exchanger when the blower goes to high but the temperature which the thermocouple inside the firebox sees is pretty much unfazed I'd think.  As long as the firebox temps at the thermocouple meet whatever temperature corresponds to the level of burn you have it set at on the computer the damper will not open up......regardless of any change in heat exchanger, plenum and/or room temps.  The computer has no way of knowing what the temperature is in the heat exchanger and the thermocouple is smack dab where most of the gassification takes place inside the firebox.  It does have limit switches in the plenum, but those are just to control the blower motor.  One to energize the blower motor circuit and one to kick it on high in case plenum temps get too hot.  Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted what you wrote as the computer somehow sees a change in temp of the heat exchanger to help control the damper.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 22, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Ahahahahaha! Kinda like when you were a kid and you'd try to see if the fridge light stays on all the time...I can just picture JR in his basement whipping the door open tryin to sneak up on the gassification



lol....yep, that's pretty much what I was doing.  I even tried to get a photo of it but it disappears too fast.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 22, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> While it's true you are pulling a bit more heat out of the heat exchanger when the blower goes to high but the temperature which the thermocouple inside the firebox sees is pretty much unfazed I'd think.  As long as the firebox temps at the thermocouple meet whatever temperature corresponds to the level of burn you have it set at on the computer the damper will not open up......regardless of any change in heat exchanger, plenum and/or room temps.  The computer has no way of knowing what the temperature is in the heat exchanger and the thermocouple is smack dab where most of the gassification takes place inside the firebox.  It does have limit switches in the plenum, but those are just to control the blower motor.  One to energize the blower motor circuit and one to kick it on high in case plenum temps get too hot.  Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted what you wrote as the computer somehow sees a change in temp of the heat exchanger to help control the damper.



When the heat exchanger cools, the fire box has to follow as it is part of the heat exchanger, Albeit slower than the upper exchanger.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 22, 2015)

Monaco said:


> I noticed int he Kuuma video they recommend only putting three pieces of wood in warmer weather, instead of filling the box up.
> 
> 
> It's posts like this that get us real excited about owning this furnace.
> ...



A big difference with the computer is that it will adjust to wetter wood. It will take more air to get things going and not gasify as much but the computer will constantly be adding air to the logs as needed to keep a hot fire. You will still be setting and forgetting as the unit will run itself.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 23, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> When the heat exchanger cools, the fire box has to follow as it is part of the heat exchanger, Albeit slower than the upper exchanger.



yeah, I get that however I bet if you hook up a temp gauge to the thermocouple you wouldn't see much of a change in it's reading from when the blower switches from low to high.  The thermocouple is measuring the combustion (air) temp inside the firebox and not the exterior temp of the firebox or surrounding metal.  Plus the firebox is all fully ceramic lined and with firebrick on top of that.

I wonder if they make a gauge which is calibarted to work with our thermocouple?  That would be another temp sample point I'd love to monitor.


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## sloeffle (Sep 23, 2015)

I think the Kuuma is great furnace and definitely ahead of its time. I do however think someone with the ability to program an Arduino or Raspberry PI and has some wood burning knowledge could duplicate what they are doing. I have a friend that runs the damper on his Big Green Egg with a Raspberry PI to keep it at an optimal temp. We are not talking about rocket science here.

In my situation, I couldn't justify the 2k upcharge over a Caddy. If I was solely heating my house with wood then I could have justified the extra cost of the furnace. If you are just using the wood burning furnace as supplementary heat then I think a Tundra or a Caddy would be "good enough".


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## laynes69 (Sep 23, 2015)

The smart stove controller only costs about 300.00 and can fully automate combustion with a pc and thermocouple. I've been on the fence for some time on doing this with our furnace. Once the technology can be adapted to a homes thermostat, I'm in.


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## lampmfg (Sep 23, 2015)

Buzz Saw said:


> Health benefits from saunas,Can you elaborate?


I've just seen an increase of articles, which is helping to get them more into the main stream.  Mix that in with a lot of the cool designs you see (A lot of our customers have shared awesome one's that you can see on our Facebook page) and I see this market really expanding over the next 20 years (We probably sell 1 a month to Alaska).  One of my buddies just got his first one at the lake cabin and likes it so much that he's going to put one in at his house.   
http://www.newser.com/story/203145/could-using-a-sauna-help-you-live-longer.html
http://www.saunatimes.com/health-benefit/
http://www.finnleo.com/pages/health-and-wellness.aspx
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/8-unexpected-benefits-sauna-that-will-impress-you.html
http://www.lahealthyliving.com/health/the-truth-about-saunas-things-you-should-know/


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## brenndatomu (Sep 23, 2015)

sloeffle said:


> We are not talking about rocket science here.


Or are we? I know what you are saying, but if it were that easy to get low emissions and nothing but a lil white ash showing in the chimney at the end of the season everybody would have done it already




sloeffle said:


> I do however think someone with the ability to program an Arduino or Raspberry PI and has some wood burning knowledge could duplicate what they are doing


But I do agree that someone like this could make _improvements_ on most burners, dunno about duplicate


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## lampmfg (Sep 23, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> Or are we? I know what you are saying, but if it were that easy to get low emissions and nothing but a lil white ash showing in the chimney at the end of the season everybody would have done it already
> 
> 
> 
> But I do agree that someone like this could make _improvements_ on most burners, dunno about duplicate



Believe me I told my dad this many years ago and he laughed at me.  Now he might not be the best or fully understand computers, but he told me the amount of hours/years of test burns he completed to get it where it's at now.  Lets just say that he's put a lot of time into this and he still continues to fine tune it-he's a perfectionist.


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## sloeffle (Sep 23, 2015)

brenndatomu said:


> But I do agree that someone like this could make _improvements_ on most burners, dunno about duplicate


Duplicate was probably the wrong word to use. Improve is probably a better choice.

In my last statement I was specifically referring to the computer controlled modulating damper system that they have. As @laynes69 pointed out, you can buy a retrofit kit that has a thermocouple and computer that will do the same thing. I bet that if you hooked something like that up to an already existing EPA approved wood furnace that you would get even better burn times.

@lampmfg - Do your furnaces have a DC motor in them that modulates based off of the heat load ?


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 23, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yeah, I get that however I bet if you hook up a temp gauge to the thermocouple you wouldn't see much of a change in it's reading from when the blower switches from low to high.  The thermocouple is measuring the combustion (air) temp inside the firebox and not the exterior temp of the firebox or surrounding metal.  Plus the firebox is all fully ceramic lined and with firebrick on top of that.
> 
> I wonder if they make a gauge which is calibarted to work with our thermocouple?  That would be another temp sample point I'd love to monitor.



You are 100% right. I forgot about/wasn't thinking about the insulated firebox.


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## STIHLY DAN (Sep 23, 2015)

sloeffle said:


> In my situation, I couldn't justify the 2k upcharge over a Caddy. If I was solely heating my house with wood then I could have justified the extra cost of the furnace. If you are just using the wood burning furnace as supplementary heat then I think a Tundra or a Caddy would be "good enough".



I agree whole heartedly, I would however be surprised if many Caddy or Kuuma owners are only using them as supplement heat. Then the question is what do people consider as supplement , probably a few different answers to that.


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## DaveH (Oct 2, 2015)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Be careful about listening to any dealer........they have vested interest and it's amazing how the products they happen to offer and make the most profit on are the best out there.     ;-)



I agree with taking dealers for what they are.  I had a dealer try to sway me away from a Kuuma and towards a Napoleon HMF 200.  We agreed to disagree.


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## Wisneaky (Oct 2, 2015)

STIHLY DAN said:


> I agree whole heartedly, I would however be surprised if many Caddy or Kuuma owners are only using them as supplement heat. Then the question is what do people consider as supplement , probably a few different answers to that.


Mine supplements all my heating needs. Lol


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