# Harman Oakwood stove problems



## T@LFarms (Nov 29, 2010)

I purchased an oakwood stove 2 years ago and the first year was great. This year the firebricks cracked and feel apart to a tune of $340.00. When I replaced them I noticed that the firechamber was starting to decinigrate and this part is $320.00. Is this normal, the dealer wouldn't help out at all and said the stove was burned too hot. I don't know how you can burn a woodstove and not burn it hot.

TC


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## Troutchaser (Nov 29, 2010)

There are several members here with Oakwood stoves.  I'm sure they'll be chiming in soon.
Do you monitor stove temps?

Oh, how rude of me.  Welcome to the forum!


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## T@LFarms (Nov 29, 2010)

I monitor chimney temperatures with a gauge and it stays in the green.


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## branchburner (Nov 29, 2010)

Yes, TC, this stove burns hotter than many, and excessive temps can shorten the lifespan of the afterburner. Like VC and perhaps others, Harman has designed a stove that burns very hot and then if there are problems, they sometimes tell the customer "sorry, you burned the stove very hot - no warranty." 

Is the afterburner actually falling apart, or just fragile and crusty? If it is still intact, the less you handle it the better. You should get more than two years out of it, even if you burned hot. Given you have observed and maintained safe flue temps, I would keep pestering the dealer to honor the warranty if it has failed completely. Go through the manual and see if there were specific instructions you have ignored that might give them cause to not replace the part.

This recent thread may be of interest: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/62727/


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2010)

T@LFarms said:
			
		

> I monitor chimney temperatures with a gauge and it stays in the green.


Welcome T!

I am also a new burner in my 3rd season.  I think a lot of people here will probably say that monitoring stove temps with a thermometer is the best way to make sure you don't overfire the stove. Most manufacturers will state the ideal temps and spot for a stove thermometer.  My manual says that the best place to check stove temps is on the side loading door.  However, this may not be the hottest part of the stove.  The open baffle is probably the hottest part of my stove. So I put a magnetic thermometer 12" above the stove top on the pipe connector to try to simulate the hotest part of the stove.  The temps can get really extremelly hot within seconds if unwatched. Like from 500 to 900+ within a minute or two if the ash door is open.  I would never know unless I had a thermometer in that very spot.  I usually damper down as soon as I see sign of an overfire. The symptoms you mentioned would sound like an overfire to most people, I think.

Edit:
Those are some beautiful looking stoves the Oakwoods.  Do either of you have the optional grill that goes on top of the stove?


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## branchburner (Nov 29, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Those are some beautiful looking stoves the Oakwoods.  Do either of you have the optional grill that goes on top of the stove?



A great looking (and heating) stove, and yes, the grill is a treat.


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

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I can smell the burgers and steaks from here!  I just saw that grill a few days ago while researching Harman stoves.  Sweet!


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## T@LFarms (Nov 30, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

> Yes, TC, this stove burns hotter than many, and excessive temps can shorten the lifespan of the afterburner. Like VC and perhaps others, Harman has designed a stove that burns very hot and then if there are problems, they sometimes tell the customer "sorry, you burned the stove very hot - no warranty."
> 
> Is the afterburner actually falling apart, or just fragile and crusty? If it is still intact, the less you handle it the better. You should get more than two years out of it, even if you burned hot. Given you have observed and maintained safe flue temps, I would keep pestering the dealer to honor the warranty if it has failed completely. Go through the manual and see if there were specific instructions you have ignored that might give them cause to not replace the part.
> 
> This recent thread may be of interest: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/62727/



branchburner the afterburner is partly gone on one corner and a thin piece is loose on the front (hard to describe). I have been burning wood for over 35 years with no issues. I used to have timberline stoves and had them for many years with no issues. I bought this for what I think was a lot of money and seem to have too many problems. I can't believe how many people have thermometors at different locations and the very high temperatures that are seen. It makes me feel like getting rid of this stove and buying an old one.


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## branchburner (Nov 30, 2010)

Funny thing happened last night after reading about your cracked brick. I've had one piece (the center "shoe") crack last year (after two years use), and then I woke up this morning and the center piece above the shoe had cracked during the night! Seems they should be sturdier - I know they take some heating and beating, but nothing I'd call abuse.

Did the afterburner get that damage after your firebricks broke, maybe getting hit with wood or a poker? I'm curious about how many of the brick refractory pieces broke, and how they cracked - do you think it was from a few super-hot fires, banging with logs, or what? 

I think for sure running newer stoves means learning new tricks - some of the old rules apply, some don't. Because of the mandatory secondary air inlets, these new stoves can be easier to overfire. And the parts are more fragile, and do get pricy in a hurry.

Run at peak performance, you can probably get longer, cleaner burns and use less wood than with any older stove. It's just a matter of getting all the variables lined up to reach that peak, and knowing when to treat the stove with kid gloves. Too bad many stove makers and sellers are not as helpful as they could be in that department.


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## Todd (Nov 30, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

> Funny thing happened last night after reading about your cracked brick. I've had one piece (the center "shoe") crack last year (after two years use), and then I woke up this morning and the center piece above the shoe had cracked during the night! Seems they should be sturdier - I know they take some heating and beating, but nothing I'd call abuse.
> 
> Did the afterburner get that damage after your firebricks broke, maybe getting hit with wood or a poker? I'm curious about how many of the brick refractory pieces broke, and how they cracked - do you think it was from a few super-hot fires, banging with logs, or what?
> 
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Maybe it's time to get that $100 backup Fireview in operation?


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## Todd (Nov 30, 2010)

TC,
Don't let the dealer push you around, demand a warranty claim.


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## branchburner (Nov 30, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> Maybe it's time to get that $100 backup Fireview in operation?



The entire cat/baffle assembly was pulled out, so it's just a stone and iron box. But no cracks, and as a nice-looking direct-connect smoke dragon it will easily heat the in-law apt next time the power goes out for a day or more.

The Harman is up and running tonight. Let it cool down this morning, pulled out the two halves of the refractory piece and clamped them together with furnace cement. After setting an hour, threw it in the oven for another hour, then back in the Harman. So far so good - still one piece six hours into the burn.


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## Todd (Nov 30, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

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How much did Woodstock quote you to get the guts back in that Fireview?


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## branchburner (Nov 30, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> TC,
> Don't let the dealer push you around, demand a warranty claim.



Right. Molded refractory panels are covered for two years. You should not have paid for those. What did the dealer say regarding that?

That's why I asked if your AB was damaged after the firebrick (excuse me, the molded refractory panels) cracked - if you ran the stove in any state of disrepair, or not fully in accordance with instructions, then no warranty applies.


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## branchburner (Nov 30, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

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Tom said bring it up, they'd do it in a day. Didn't talk how much, though. Trouble is, it would be the guts of a Classic, not a Fireview, since my 20-year old model is not the same as the new one - which means no airwash. Which means no great fire view in the Fireview. So it's on the back burner for now.


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## T@LFarms (Dec 1, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

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branchburner the upper center brick broke off and wnen I took the rest of them out to examine them the right rear brick had a large crack and the lower brick fell into 4 pieces when I picked it up. This did not damage the AB. After reading several of the other postings maybe having the AB three guarters full of fine ash could have damaged it. When this happened I called my dealer for advice but had to leave a message and they never returned my call so I checked the stove and found the chamber mostly plugged. I wish that I knew about this site and that would have helped me with that problem.


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## T@LFarms (Dec 1, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

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The dealer told me that the bricks were guaranteed for one year.


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## Diabel (Dec 1, 2010)

I bought the encore NC (mistake #1) my second choice was the Harmon ( mistake #2 avoided)!! Sold the encore after 4 years of use. Back to "cat" stove & happy!


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## jdonna (Dec 1, 2010)

Hey Buddy, 

Sorry to hear about your problems with your oakwood.  

It could either way, physical damage from a log or extreme Firedome temperatures.   Harman needs to come out and state the operating temperature of this stove and what overfiring is because their owners manual needs serious revisions especially in regards to side and back temperatures when burning smoke.   

I would like to hear some more info, chimney height, chimney size, outside air kit installed or not, amount of wood usually loaded, duration of burn times, type and moisture of the wood and how often you have used the stove.  Posting that will help a lot of other people out down the road.  

Search the forums, I have posted a lot of info and so has Branch in regards to these stoves and problems.  Did you by chance measure the temperature by the bypass handle, that is where I have found it to be the most accurate and most eye opening.   I have run into every dead end as well with my Harman Dealer and talking the factory direct.  

It depends on the warranty given on the stove, mine was provided with the Harman Gold 6 year even though it was bought two years ago, to me though it has been a worthless piece of paper. 

PM me please if you need some contact info.   

I'd trade any day of the week for a fireview.


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## Todd (Dec 1, 2010)

jdonna said:
			
		

> I'd trade any day of the week for a fireview.



Hmmm, always loved that grill option.  ;-P


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## jdonna (Dec 1, 2010)

Well Minnesota to Wisconsin is not that far of a drive lol.


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## T@LFarms (Dec 1, 2010)

jdonna said:
			
		

> Hey Buddy,
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Burning chunk- my chimney is six inch triple wall that goes straight out of the stove and through the roof without any bends and it is about 18 feet long.No outside air kit and I burn my stove 24/7 loading it about three quarters full about every 6 to 8 hours. My wood is seasoned about one and a half to two years and is stored inside a shed after that time(mostly ash and maple).I also have the harman gold 6 year warantee whatever good it is. I don't have a stove thermometer only a chimney one. I thought when I purchased this it would give many years service without spending a fortune on maintenance. I have read many articles on this forum and it seems that many people are having problems. You are right about the owners manual. I tried to follow it but it is not very specific.

TC


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## branchburner (Dec 1, 2010)

T@LFarms said:
			
		

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The way I read it, if they were normal firebrick they wouldn't be covered at all, but they are specially molded refractory material - two years, not one: http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/communications/Warranty_Policy.pdf


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## branchburner (Dec 1, 2010)

T@LFarms said:
			
		

> After reading several of the other postings maybe having the AB three guarters full of fine ash could have damaged it. When this happened I called my dealer for advice but had to leave a message and they never returned my call so I checked the stove and found the chamber mostly plugged. I wish that I knew about this site and that would have helped me with that problem.



Did you remove the back of the stove and clean that out?


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## T@LFarms (Dec 1, 2010)

branchburner said:
			
		

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Yes I did and couldn't believe all the ashes that were in there. I don't think the dealers know all the quirks of these stoves yet.

TC


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## jdonna (Dec 1, 2010)

Should be posted in the owners manual, firedome maintenance.  My experience with Harman dealers out here have been run and gun salesmen.  

Amazes me, I was a Stihl dealer at one time and they would pull a dealership for poor customer service and or lack of update training by dealer staff.  Each product had to be demonstrated fully before leaving the door.


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## jnau (Mar 16, 2011)

What about the Heat output?  Do you all feel that most of the heat comes from the top and back of this stove?  I have mine set 6 inches into my fireplace, I think a lot is being kicked backwards, thinking of putting a fan back there to push it out.

Any thoughts?


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## T@LFarms (Mar 17, 2011)

There is very little heat from the back of my stove. the majority comes from the front and sides.


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## jnau (Mar 17, 2011)

And you have the oakwood?  I have little from the front, most is from the top.


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## Diabel (Mar 17, 2011)

With a downdraft stove most should of the heat should be
coming froms  the back of the stove, me thinks!


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## Donk4kyv (Jan 17, 2014)

What kind of material is the combustion package made of? Mine is soft, almost like paper maché or styrofoam. I almost damaged it when I was cleaning the stove last year and started scraping on it. It looked identical to the ash that had accumulated on the adjacent fire brick, but I quickly realised I was scratching into the CP material and not ash from fire brick.

I had the dealer who installed mine come out to service it at the end of the 2nd burning season, since the 2nd year it didn't seem to perform as well as it did the first year. He took the brick out, but couldn't get the shoe brick to come out, so he just stuck the vacuum hose into the CP above the brick and sucked out the ash. But after he finished, we couldn't find the little square gaskets that go over the holes in the front of the CP to seal where they line up with the holes in the fire bricks. They are very light and fragile, almost like dust bunnies, so I suspect they accidentally got sucked up in the vacuum cleaner. He said not to worry; not having them in place won't affect the performance of the stove.

But this season, the stove has performed even worse than it did  last year. Just doesn't give out the heat like it did the first year. May be the wood, since most of the stuff in my stack shows between 20% and 23% when I stick the gauge probes into a piece freshly split to take the measurement, but that's all the wood I have.

I wonder about those little missing square pieces. They must have served some purpose, or the manufacturer wouldn't have included them, and I wonder if air leakage from inside the CP is affecting something, since I don't think the afterburner is working as well as it did first year. Most of the time little heat is being radiated from the heat fins on the back panel; most is coming from the top and sides of the stove. First season, the back got very hot even with a moderate burn.

How do you remove the combustion package after the bricks are removed? Does it just sit in place, or is there something to hold it in place. I think it would be very easy to damage or destroy it if not handled properly. The instruction book is not much help. The blown up diagram doesn't even show those little square pieces; it just shows the brick and the CP, and I could find no mention of it in the parts list.

I think I'm going to service it myself from now on, since the guy from the dealer couldn't figure out how to take out the shoe brick and lost those little square gaskets, so even though he did a good job installing it, I don't  think he knows anything about the workings of the stove. And I wonder if one can even get replacements for those little gaskets, since there is no mention of them in the parts list or the diagram. Surely you don't have to purchase a whole new CP just to get those little things.


Don


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## branchburner (Jan 17, 2014)

Donk4kyv said:


> Most of the time little heat is being radiated from the heat fins on the back panel; most is coming from the top and sides of the stove. First season, the back got very hot even with a moderate burn.
> 
> How do you remove the combustion package after the bricks are removed? Does it just sit in place, or is there something to hold it in place.
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> And I wonder if one can even get replacements for those little gaskets, since there is no mention of them in the parts list or the diagram. Surely you don't have to purchase a whole new CP just to get those little things.



 Hi Don. Sounds like you are not getting secondary burn much at all, or the back would be getting hot. The CP could be clogged with ash, which cannot easily be cleaned without removal (I agree, do not bother with your dealer, he doesn't sound like he knows the stove). It could also be your wood (add in some smaller, drier pallet wood to the mix) or it could be your draft if the pipe is not clean... keep an eye on that, since your burn is not clean without secondaries.

You remove the CP strraight out from the back, after removing the small bolts (w/ an allen wrench) that hold the back cover on. The CP just rests there but may stick to the inside bricks or may stick to the outside cover, which is kind of heavy, so you have to be sure to pull that cover straight out very evenly to avoid damage (yes, very easy to damage)... at a few years of use, and the CP may easily crack. I no longer suggest vacuuming or removing unless really needed, as it can weaken and pull apart the CP itself, but try simply removing all LOOSE ash in and around the CP once it is removed. Mine had major ash buildup at one point in the area of the secondary air intakes.

I would try contacting Harman directly about those those little gaskets, and insist they or your dealer make good on them, since he was in error. I cannot say how big a factor they might be in your problems, but there's no reason not to have them in. Good luck!


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## Donk4kyv (Jan 17, 2014)

branchburner said:


> Hi Don. Sounds like you are not getting secondary burn much at all, or the back would be getting hot. The CP could be clogged with ash, which cannot easily be cleaned without removal (I agree, do not bother with your dealer, he doesn't sound like he knows the stove). It could also be your wood (add in some smaller, drier pallet wood to the mix) or it could be your draft if the pipe is not clean... keep an eye on that, since your burn is not clean without secondaries.
> 
> You remove the CP straight out from the back, after removing the small bolts (w/ an allen wrench) that hold the back cover on. The CP just rests there but may stick to the inside bricks or may stick to the outside cover, which is kind of heavy, so you have to be sure to pull that cover straight out very evenly to avoid damage (yes, very easy to damage)... at a few years of use, and the CP may easily crack. I no longer suggest vacuuming or removing unless really needed, as it can weaken and pull apart the CP itself, but try simply removing all LOOSE ash in and around the CP once it is removed. Mine had major ash buildup at one point in the area of the secondary air intakes.
> 
> I would try contacting Harman directly about those those little gaskets, and insist they or your dealer make good on them, since he was in error. I cannot say how big a factor they might be in your problems, but there's no reason not to have them in. Good luck!



Thanks. I'll check that. I get a good draft when the by-pass damper is open, but it doesn't seem to pull air through the CP as well as it used  to with the damper closed. Lately, I have had to open the air control on the front almost fully to the right to get a good hot burn.

If I remove the bricks at the back of the stove and remove the shoe brick, wouldn't that assure that the CP won't stick to the bricks and pull apart when I remove the back  cover? The ones except for the shoe brick seem loose and I have always been able to slightly move them, since they are not made to fit snugly together.

I'll have to  remove the optional heat shield from the back to get at the back cover. I assume the allen-head bolts you mentioned are under the shield, and you DON'T mean the six 7/16" nuts on the studs that hold the main back part of the stove together. I wonder if the CP might also stick to the bottom of the stove and pull apart when I attempt to pull the back cover.

Another thing I noticed last year, my grate has warped, so that it arches up about a half-inch in the middle. This makes it more difficult to rake all the ashes through the grate into the ash pan. I don't remember ever over-firing the stove, but first noticed the warp about the middle of last year's heating season. When the guy from the dealer checked the stove in the spring he said no need to order a new one, since that warp wouldn't  hurt anything. I wonder if that is a common problem  with those stoves. According  to the owner's manual, grate replacement is the one part not covered by the warranty.

The only time I may have approached over-firing happened early the first season I used the stove. It got hot enough that I could see a faint red glow from the exterior side of the rear casting on the stove that contains the fire dome, visible only when I turned the lights off. Not sure if  that is normal, but I immediately reduced the draft and let it cool down, and didn't see any apparent damage anywhere.

So far, no cracks in any of the bricks. The guy from the dealer said that if a crack appears, not to be concerned as  long as the two pieces will remain securely in place, but I notice some people who have had cracks say they glued theirs back together using stove cement.

Again, thanks for the info.

Don


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## branchburner (Jan 17, 2014)

Donk4kyv said:


> If I remove the bricks at the back of the stove and remove the shoe brick, wouldn't that assure that the CP won't stick to the bricks and pull apart when I remove the back  cover?
> 
> I assume the allen-head bolts you mentioned are under the shield, and you DON'T mean the six 7/16" nuts on the studs that hold the main back part of the stove together. I wonder if the CP might also stick to the bottom of the stove and pull apart when I attempt to pull the back cover.
> 
> Another thing I noticed last year, my grate has warped, so that it arches up about a half-inch in the middle.



Yes, the allen-head bolts just hold the rear cover of the burn chamber, not the entire back of the stove. Obviously take care, when loosening the last one, that you are supporting the whole assembly so it doesn't just fall off and you can instead pull it straight back as far as needed. Note, there is rope gasket that seals that cover -- mine was in bad shape at certain points.

The CP could be "sticky" to that rear cover, to the bottom of the stove, or to the internal framework (but not to the bricks themselves, as they are on the opposite side of the framework -- that's why you can't remove the CP from the front, as you will see). If it is, only a gentle force should be needed to un-stick it.

I suggest taking all the brick and associated refractory out of the front, taking care to remember where everything goes and how it is clipped in (it is not complicated, but like anything else you take apart, easy to get confused when putting it back in place!). That way you can clean out all ash, and see exactly what the stove looks like when fully gutted. Be sure to clean the ash around the secondary air ports (you may want to remove the bottom cover that protects them, if ash can all easily be gotten with a vac).

While everything is out, check the bolts holding the damper frame (mine became very loose over time - you can find them more easily by feeling around than by looking). It's also a good time to adjust the damper ramp, if needed... at one point I had no friction when the bypass was closed, and it actually "fell open" by itself a few times, simply due to the slight pressure of minor backpuffing... obviously a potentially bad situation.

Don't worry about the grate - I think the warp is not that unusual, and could probably happen in a single minor overfir like the one you described. If you don't like the arch, just flip it, and the convex becomes the concave!


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## Donk4kyv (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks again for the useful information. I did a couple of searches and found a store in Missouri that sells parts on line.
http://www.hechlers.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=31_126_128&sort=20a&page=1

They have those little gaskets in  stock @ $18 for the pair. Expensive, but I suspect if they weren't necessary the manufacturer wouldn't have put them on the stove. They also carry base gaskets for the CP, which cost less that the little square ones. I would think the base gaskets would help prevent the CP from sticking to the bottom, or at least make it easier to un-stick.

I viewed the Harman web site and they don't list the place where I bought mine any more as a dealer. The nearest one shown now is about 140 miles away, near Memphis. I wonder if my dealer discontinued Harman products or went out of business entirely. They seemed competent when they did the installation, but I suspect the guy didn't know my stove very well. Their main interest in Harman appeared to be pellet stoves, and they had just a couple of wood burners in stock almost as an afterthought.

Reviews for the Oakwood are very  good and most owners appear satisfied with their stove. I plan to inspect and clean the CP myself and look for anything else that needs attention while I have it apart. I think if I do my own work and  can always find a  parts source, the stove should last a long time.

According to the manual, it's normal for a new stove to need that adjustment on the damper ramp after it has been in use for a while. I re-adjusted mine while I had the stove moved out of position to do some work on the wall where the old fireplace used to be.

One more example of if you want anything done right, learn how to do it yourself.

Don


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