# High RPM chainsaws



## hemlock (May 8, 2009)

Hello,
I am wondering about newer high RPM chainsaws.  Does anyone have any concern that they may wear down quicker (rings), or throw a bearing faster than "older saws".  I speak from seeing a new Dolmar 5100s, and a 346xp in action.  Very impressive, but left me wondering what was sacraficed to get these new "screamers".  I know technology changes, but still, a two stroke is a two stroke.  High RPM = High heat.  I may be way off as well.  Wouldn't be the first time....


Husky 137
Husky 50
Husky 262xp
McCulloch PM 10-10 (RIP)


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## smokinj (May 8, 2009)

5100 runs at 15,500 they dont have any issue that i know of and i run my stihls at 14,200rpm 96 octan no issues, doent run any hotter than the old ones


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## CTBurner (May 8, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

> 5100 runs at 15,500 they dont have any issue that i know of and i run my stihls at 14,200rpm 96 octan no issues, doent run any hotter than the old ones



where are you getting 95 octain and is is corn free???  is it expensive, i have to get my saws off ethanal


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## smokinj (May 8, 2009)

CTBurner said:
			
		

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I buy 93 octane and put some octane boost in with it corn free!


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## hemlock (May 8, 2009)

What could I safely run at 262xp at, RPM wise?  Is it a carb adjustment that would have to be made?


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## smokinj (May 8, 2009)

catfish said:
			
		

> What could I safely run at 262xp at, RPM wise?  Is it a carb adjustment that would have to be made?


with a muffler mod you can get about 1000 more rpm's over stock


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## kevin j (May 8, 2009)

in theory probably shorter life span in hours, as ring life in miles or whatever is reached sooner. 
in reality, so much better oils now theylast so much longer. 
and the amount of wood cut per day, or per lifespan of the machine, is so much more.
Lighter, higher rpm, better chains, higher productivity.


there were much better saws, made of rugged metal, but weighing 15 and 20 lbs. and they cost a months wages. Now, a good pro saw is a weeks wages. And there is the choice of a days wages for a box store plastic junky saw. So not fair to compare a metal mac of a months wages with a plastic Home Dep saw really cheap.

the 'good old days' were better in memory than in reality maybe....
I am very thankful for the better technology, especially with age. I appreciate light weight, better AV, better mufflers, less smoke, and more 'fun factor' to get the job done. 

k


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## svannoni (May 13, 2009)

I buy 93 octane and put some octane boost in with it corn free![/quote]

What is the purpose of adding octane boost to your fuel? It does not have any more power with octane booster added to it.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

> I buy 93 octane and put some octane boost in with it corn free!



What is the purpose of adding octane boost to your fuel? It does not have any more power with octane booster added to it.[/quote]
chainsaw will run better at higher octanes less bogging and quicker starts and it just smells good!


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## svannoni (May 13, 2009)

If it is worth the cost to you to make it smell good that is your choice. However the higher the octane the fuel has the slower the fuel burns. It has no more power potential just the speed of which it burns. As far as i know all chainsaws are 2 cycle so with mixed fuel I think any additive will just help the economy not your chainsaw.


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## KarlP (May 13, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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You've been smoking too many j's. ;-) 

Octane != power.  Octane booster doesn't add power.  Race fuel happens to have more power and a higher octane rating.  Premium with ethanol has less power and a higher octane octane than regular without ethanol.  There isn't a direct correlation between octane and power.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

> If it is worth the cost to you to make it smell good that is your choice. However the higher the octane the fuel has the slower the fuel burns. It has no more power potential just the speed of which it burns. As far as i know all chainsaws are 2 cycle so with mixed fuel I think any additive will just help the economy not your chainsaw.



good for you bring your saw and put it in a 50-60 in silver maple and see witch gas can you start using not telling you to use it! But Iam telling you the proforamce is better in the large wood and thats what i cut! but if you say so i will go back to e 85 lol


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## svannoni (May 13, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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Don't get me wrong. Ethanol is the wrong way to go. A quality standard fuel is the way to go. There is just not the need for the octane boost. High octane fuel should only be needed if you have a high compression engine. Since the is not a hotsaw forum I assume you have a stock saw. Plus the oil you are mixing with your fuel is all the octane boost you need. Since it is slowing the burn time of your fuel.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

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you assume too much!


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## svannoni (May 13, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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Your right I do assume too much. And also I did just notice in your list of saws does indicate a ms 460 ported. That does indicate you do not have a stock was. However porting has and extremely minimal effect to compression. Porting increases volumetric efficiency. The only was it can increase compression is through the supercharging effect. If it was truly a hot saw that would require high octane fuel would would not be dropping trees with it. And if you are then you have enough extra money to continue to stimulate the economy for the rest of us.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

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lol your funny assumeing again! your right with the picture your painting but porting the saw also meens the squish has been done ("that would be assuming") your already there so finish the job right!


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## Highbeam (May 13, 2009)

My Stihl recommended mid grade 89 octane gas. Octane doesn't give you power it allows you to tune your saw to make more power by slowing combustion. Adding high octane fuel to an engine that was optimized for low octane fuel will not creat more power and might even reduce power. Still I use premium fuel with 93 octane in all of my small equipment so since the premium fuel should be of higher quality. Hard to say.

I could even buy race gas not for the octane but so that I get non-ethanol fuel of good quality.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> My Stihl recommended mid grade 89 octane gas. Octane doesn't give you power it allows you to tune your saw to make more power by slowing combustion. Adding high octane fuel to an engine that was optimized for low octane fuel will not creat more power and might even reduce power. Still I use premium fuel with 93 octane in all of my small equipment so since the premium fuel should be of higher quality. Hard to say.
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> I could even buy race gas not for the octane but so that I get non-ethanol fuel of good quality.



well said the set up I have with my 460 octane will make a big differnce mainly in big wood where you have a 28 in. bar beaver tailed for 4-5 mins.  the name of the tread is   "High RPM chainsaws" I am set to run 14,200 rpms ported intake ported exhaust squish if i can rember right .006 and 3/4 in muffler port octane helps.......... stanard modd. 460 work saw


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## svannoni (May 13, 2009)

It is becoming evident with what you are telling all of us that you have one hopped up saw. It is also becoming clear your saw does not run like it should on 93 pump gas. To a simple minded guy like me this says either you should be running race fuel and not the oxygenated tree hugger fuel you get from the pump or you need to have your carb tuned correctly. Likely the carb will have to be tuned several times a year due to the season changes. A small price to pay for such a highly modified piece of engineering.


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## smokinj (May 13, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

> It is becoming evident with what you are telling all of us that you have one hopped up saw. It is also becoming clear your saw does not run like it should on 93 pump gas. To a simple minded guy like me this says either you should be running race fuel and not the oxygenated tree hugger fuel you get from the pump or you need to have your carb tuned correctly. Likely the carb will have to be tuned several times a year due to the season changes. A small price to pay for such a highly modified piece of engineering.


wrong on all accounts when the bar is barried it just runs better with higher octane hopped up not really.Tuning no problem i tune by ear in and out of the wood runs fine on 93 and idles fine! point is you can run stronger in the big cuts atleast with my saw with a little higer octane 96 seems to be the sweet spot if you will. 4 hrs. cutting with the bar barried is normal for me! Its like driving up a mountain with a heavy load higher octane helps


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## fabguy01 (May 16, 2009)

I dont know either of you guy's or what you know about engine's and fuel. That said "race gas" has many additives to improve pawer, however Octane is not one of them it's ONLY purpose is to reduse or eliminate denotation which is when the fuel ignites at the less than optimum time," Kind of like the ignition timing being off in your car and you hear that pingging noise" and can and will have catistrofic results including eroding holes in top of pistons. Now when you start hot roddin any engine two or four stroke. i.e. Bumpin up compression, cams, porting, intake and exhaust. the engine will have a tendency to detonate, then you start adding octane to counteract all the work you have done.


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## fabguy01 (May 16, 2009)

svannoni said:
			
		

> It is becoming evident with what you are telling all of us that you have one hopped up saw. It is also becoming clear your saw does not run like it should on 93 pump gas. To a simple minded guy like me this says either you should be running race fuel and not the oxygenated tree hugger fuel you get from the pump or you need to have your carb tuned correctly. Likely the carb will have to be tuned several times a year due to the season changes. A small price to pay for such a highly modified piece of engineering.


Actually alot of race fuel is oxygenated http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index.asp :coolsmirk:


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## svannoni (May 16, 2009)

It is safe to say I am fairly competent with internal combustion engines. I did also now there are so race fuel suppliers going into oxygenated fuels. This is for the street legal racers out there from what I understand. I also no there are a lot of additive in race fuel most of which is not just octane boost. As I stated before I think the 2 cycle oil would act like and octane boost by slowing the furn time. To what extent I am not sure of but I'm sure it would be plenty. In my opinion if you modify an engine my porting and milling heads to increase compression ratio the fuel system needs to be retuned. Most likely a bump in jet size and not just twisting on some idle bleed screws. If smokinj's saw runs better with octane boost in it I don't think it is due to it too low of octane. It is more likely running too lean.


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## fabguy01 (May 16, 2009)

:bug: 





			
				svannoni said:
			
		

> It is safe to say I am fairly competent with internal combustion engines. I did also now there are so race fuel suppliers going into oxygenated fuels. This is for the street legal racers out there from what I understand. I also no there are a lot of additive in race fuel most of which is not just octane boost. As I stated before I think the 2 cycle oil would act like and octane boost by slowing the furn time. To what extent I am not sure of but I'm sure it would be plenty. In my opinion if you modify an engine my porting and milling heads to increase compression ratio the fuel system needs to be retuned. Most likely a bump in jet size and not just twisting on some idle bleed screws. If smokinj's saw runs better with octane boost in it I don't think it is due to it too low of octane. It is more likely running too lean.


Sorry if I came off wrong wasnt trying to,Dont 2 strokes have a tendency to "run away" when they get leaned out? Have had it happen to me twice once in a sea-doo and once in a 6-71 detroit<that one was scarry hh:


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## smokinj (May 16, 2009)

ok again I dont want to tell anyone how to run there saw but when under heavy loads were not talking 8x8's 10x10 or 12x12's were talking 55x55 log's you may know more about engines then I will ever know and I am fine with that but my saw is not running lean or anything else that you may be trying to think might be going on(TO RUN THIS SAW LEAN WOULD BE IN THE 15000 RPM RANGE) !  when racing a saw everyone must use 93 octane out of one can there is a reason why they do this so no one gets an edge. there is other ways to get more proforamce out of the fuel as well sure not going there with this bunch. There is always something you can learn every day.Toulene is whats in the octane boost that gives you the power the higher octane is just a by product. If your not running a high rpm saw (13500-15500) in big wood this is hard to know but you pick up things  along the way. 2 things when cutting a 55x55 14ft to 16 ft 18in's. cuts then 1/4 each piece   your going to be thinking one of two things I will never pick up a saw again or how can I make more power! If you want to try to see a differce octane will make use 2 gallons of 87 (in your saw)then switch to 93 you will tell a differnce again "high rpm saws in heavy load"


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## mbokie5 (May 20, 2009)

Just bought a new Stihl 441 with a 28 inch bar. It is a real big saw for me.

Any advice?


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## smokinj (May 20, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

> Just bought a new Stihl 441 with a 28 inch bar. It is a real big saw for me.
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> Any advice?


nice saw! wouldnt do anything to it! break it in and have fun. Wear ppe


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## Bigg_Redd (May 20, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

> Just bought a new Stihl 441 with a 28 inch bar. It is a real big saw for me.
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1) get a skip tooth chain.

2) become a proficient hand filer

3) skip tooth chain.


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## mbokie5 (May 20, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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I have the helmet with non plastic mask (with a screen and poly carbonate glasses) and ear muffs, Husqy chain saw gloves, steel toed boots, and a pair of chain saw pants.

Is that enough or should I have a jacket?

I respect the power of this saw. For me, it's like holding on to a 350 Chev, after using a little 18 inch Husqy 51 for so long.


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## mbokie5 (May 20, 2009)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

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The hand filer thing is something the store recommended. I guess I'll have to do that.

But what's this about the skip tooth chain?

I bought extra full chisel chains. I'll go back and get the skip tooth if that's what I should have.


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## smokinj (May 20, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

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being a 28 in. on a 441 it probably is a skip chain


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## mbokie5 (May 20, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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Ok, I'm going to use it this aft.

I'll let you know.

Thanks for all the advice guys.


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## mbokie5 (May 21, 2009)

I think it's a full chisel.

I see the value in learning to file. Thanks for the tip.

I'll watch the video and give it a go.

If I'm reading this right, on a 28" bar and with a full chisel, it will take a long time to sharpen, correct?

That saw is awesome. It went through some big stuff like it was butter.


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## smokinj (May 21, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

> I think it's a full chisel.
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if a 441 with a 28 in. bar is cutting like butter than your running a full chisel skip chain (maybe even safty chain) it is what the dealer would put on there it helps give the saw more rpm's to get through the wood quicker. the 441 or 460 wouldnt pull a non ship chain very well. It comes in full skip and semi skip. 28 in. and up most use full skip.


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## mbokie5 (May 21, 2009)

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What you're saying makes perfect sense. How do I recognise which chain it is? 

The box says Oilomatic3. Then on the opening flap, stamped with a rubber stamp, not printed, it says "33RSC 91E".

I'm going to the dealer's today for a proper Stihl file. It's clear that I have to learn this skill. 

I hope it is a semi, because there was some dirt on some of the logs.


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## smokinj (May 21, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

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OILOMATIC® STIHL RAPID™ Super Comfort (RSC) not sure what the super comfort all about sure it has to do with the new anti-vibe thing the 91 stands for the drive lenths in the chain and thats what iam running and its a full skip. I run the OILOMATIC® STIHL RAPID™ Super (RS). sounds like your set for smooth cutting!


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## LLigetfa (May 21, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

> I hope it is a semi, because there was some dirt on some of the logs.


RS and RSC are full chisel, not semi.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RS


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## smokinj (May 21, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

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all rs is full chisels its the letter after the rs is what makes it a speicalty chain in hes case its for running smooth less vib if you will


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## TMonter (May 21, 2009)

80's Vintage Huskies and Stihl's were typically 11,600 to 12,600 RPM saws.

The new Stihl, Dolmar, and Huskies are rev limited at 14,500 I believe.

As long as you use high quality Synthetic oil and tune the saw properly I believe you'll be fine.


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## mbokie5 (May 25, 2009)

The link titles each product Oilomatic.

What's an Oilomatic3?


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## smokinj (May 25, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

> The link titles each product Oilomatic.
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the 3 is for anti-kick back the c for comfort


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## mbokie5 (May 26, 2009)

smokinj said:
			
		

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So for comfort, speed and safety, I couldn't do a lot better is what I'm hearing.


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## smokinj (May 26, 2009)

relic said:
			
		

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just depends what you are doing but yes comfort speed and safety are the 3 ingredients for that chain.There are alot of combo's you can chose from like RS just 2 letters its ingredients are speed speed and speed.


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