# Ashford 30 Smoke Smell, again



## Calentarse (Jan 5, 2018)

Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.

I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.

Another interesting new observation on this brand new stove is that after my first few warm up fires, I was giving the stove a once over and noticed the door, when latched, could be pressed upon and there was give indicating that the latch was not that tight. So, l tightened it very slightly which brought the latch to a more secure feel. No play when pressing on the door. Would you guess that the smell got worse!? My theory is that since the latch pulled the door more tightly closed on the latch side, it exasperates the issue with the hinge, bowing it further out from the knife edge causing the release of the smell.

I just wanted to let everyone know my experience. I obviously love the stove enough to rebuy it, but God I hate this smell. My new neighbor actually loves the stove and is in the market but he can smell it so is turned off. If anyone has a fix that isn’t the same old draft argument, Id be very grateful. My new setup is as follows: 25’ straight up, double wall, OAK, no fan kit, yet. I burn everything from cedar to white oak, MC 15-18% with most everything, sometimes lower. I burn every load for at least 10mins before I engage the cat, sometimes longer if my chimney isn’t getting too hot. House is 2200sf. Stay warm everyone!


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## chance04 (Jan 5, 2018)

Man!! Not again. I certainly hope you get it straightened out. It certainly is a beautiful stove

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## begreen (Jan 5, 2018)

Very sorry to hear this. Your setup sounds perfect.


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## Mark8 (Jan 5, 2018)

So let me get this straight, you had a stove that gave you problems and then you turned around and bought the same exact model expecting a different result. LOL

I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing with you because this is the kind of crap that happens to me, glad I'm not the only one


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## rdust (Jan 6, 2018)

I’m surprised BK hasn’t flown an engineer out to customers with these issues.  I know they are helping some customers but it’s time to end this.


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## aaronk25 (Jan 6, 2018)

What is your draft measured in water column?  On high and low?  
I got a theory to much draft causes it by pulling the air off the air wash straight back to the cat. To much vacuum (pressure drop).  Air doesn’t stay on the glass it gets pulled off.  

On mine I’m getting .15 on high (3 times the spec of .05) and on low around .1 with double wall insulated chimney.  

Put a stove collar damper on it and adjust down the draft and glass stay cleaner.   
Again it’s a theory I’ve been chasing, but these new insulated manufactured chimneys pull hard, really hard...


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## weatherguy (Jan 6, 2018)

I remember another member had the PH and couldnt solve the smoke smell issue. After many tries gave up got their money back and got another brand stove. Same issue. Turned out it was a problem with his house. I only bring it up because you have to look at everything not just the stove.


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> I remember another member had the PH and couldnt solve the smoke smell issue. After many tries gave up got their money back and got another brand stove. Same issue. Turned out it was a problem with his house. I only bring it up because you have to look at everything not just the stove.


Poor fellow, this is a different house too! And not to add to the irony, but his folks have a PH.


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2018)

begreen said:


> Poor fellow, this is a different house too! And not to add to the irony, but his folks have a PH.


Yep and they really like it. The cat gets dirty and has to be removed and cleaned, but it’s better than the old Momma Bear!


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> What is your draft measured in water column?  On high and low?
> I got a theory to much draft causes it by pulling the air off the air wash straight back to the cat. To much vacuum (pressure drop).  Air doesn’t stay on the glass it gets pulled off.
> 
> On mine I’m getting .15 on high (3 times the spec of .05) and on low around .1 with double wall insulated chimney.
> ...


Before I had a stove that had two 45s and didn’t pull hard enough, so I added chimney: still had issue. Now I have an ideal setup and it pulls too hard: still have smell. What’s a guy to do...


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> So let me get this straight, you had a stove that gave you problems and then you turned around and bought the same exact model expecting a different result. LOL
> 
> I'm not laughing at you I'm laughing with you because this is the kind of crap that happens to me, glad I'm not the only one


Everyone said this was draft related, including long time owners and very credible people. Well, it’s not entirely draft, this my experience has now taught me. Th good news is my smoke spillage issues are gone. I can do hot reloads without smoke spillage which I couldn’t do before...definitely happy about that! I just wish someone could find the issue with the door and provide some sort of a fix, if it’s even possible to fix. If it isn’t, I guess I need to consider a non-cat...


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2018)

rdust said:


> I’m surprised BK hasn’t flown an engineer out to customers with these issues.  I know they are helping some customers but it’s time to end this.


I’d welcome a visit!


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## chance04 (Jan 6, 2018)

Is it only the ashford? Are they experiencing this with the Chinook or Sirocco?

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## aaronk25 (Jan 6, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Before I had a stove that had two 45s and didn’t pull hard enough, so I added chimney: still had issue. Now I have an ideal setup and it pulls too hard: still have smell. What’s a guy to do...




Can’t offer any advice if you don’t know what your draft is.  As I wrote before I think pulling to hard (to much draft is the problem). I explained it above.   

Blaze king specifies between .03” and .05” of draft.  They don’t say hook it up to and run.  In order to blame the stove manufacture you have to ensure you are operating within the specs.  Saying you don’t have 45s and the run is this long still leaves variables.   Get a manometer or hire a pro to test your draft.   If your draft is within specified then you got a real complaint but if you don’t know the draft, well what’s a guy to do?


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## Diabel (Jan 6, 2018)

chance04 said:


> Is it only the ashford? Are they experiencing this with the Chinook or Sirocco?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




I am very interested in this too. All three are the same stove in a different dress.


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2018)

chance04 said:


> Is it only the ashford? Are they experiencing this with the Chinook or Sirocco?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I have seen reports of it with both other owners. If you look back on the threads you will see comments from owners of both with the same issue. I'm currently conversing with someone with a Sirocco 20 that has the issue, so it's not just the Ashford and not just the 30 box. Also, I feel like princess and even a king owner has mentioned it...maybe @Highbeam with his princess?

I also realize this is inherent to cat or downdraft stoves too, so that's why I'm considering switching to non-cat...my in laws have a Hearthstone and I don't smell smoke around their stove when it's turned down (whatever that means for that thing!


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## jetsam (Jan 6, 2018)

aaronk25 just reported fixing his issue with a key damper and a manometer.


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## tarzan (Jan 6, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> I have seen reports of it with both other owners. If you look back on the threads you will see comments from owners of both with the same issue. I'm currently conversing with someone with a Sirocco 20 that has the issue, so it's not just the Ashford and not just the 30 box. Also, I feel like princess and even a king owner has mentioned it...maybe @Highbeam with his princess?
> 
> I also realize this is inherent to cat or downdraft stoves too, so that's why I'm considering switching to non-cat...my in laws have a Hearthstone and I don't smell smoke around their stove when it's turned down (whatever that means for that thing!



I would be interested too here from anyone who has the smoke smell issue with the princess or king. I don't think the problem is inherent to cat  stoves but more to a particular design of cat stove.


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Can’t offer any advice if you don’t know what your draft is.  As I wrote before I think pulling to hard (to much draft is the problem). I explained it above.
> 
> Blaze king specifies between .03” and .05” of draft.  They don’t say hook it up to and run.  In order to blame the stove manufacture you have to ensure you are operating within the specs.  Saying you don’t have 45s and the run is this long still leaves variables.   Get a manometer or hire a pro to test your draft.   If your draft is within specified then you got a real complaint but if you don’t know the draft, well what’s a guy to do?
> 
> ...



Agreed. Seems the bk manual sets us up for failure. Requires a very tall chimney but then requires a very low draft. How can you satisfy both? Even if you could, would that stop leakage?


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2018)

tarzan said:


> I would be interested too here from anyone who has the smoke smell issue with the princess or king. I don't think the problem is inherent to cat  stoves but more to a particular design of cat stove.



On any burn setting if I stick my nose right to/above the hinge I can detect a creosote odor. Very tolerable and no smell in the room. I do not have a smoke leak. During a hot reload, if even the slightest puff of smoke rolls out we are very aware of that stink in our small home.


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## coutufr (Jan 6, 2018)

Creosote smell is comming from the door hinge gasket. The reason is not clear but we all have a theory as to why. When it is warmer outside or at the beginning of the season it bothers me more. There are 3 known solutions: change the gasket for a graphite saturated one, readjust the door or burn hotter. I tried the last 2 solutions with marginal improvement at best. Draft certainly has an impact but when you are within the installation manual requirements I don’t see why someone would need to try to increase the draft to try to solve the problem.


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## Diabel (Jan 6, 2018)

I was certain regarding my new purchase come spring time. A Chinook was going into my newly constructed house. 

This smoke thing makes me nervous.......

My VC will backpuff on occasion but I know I caused it by shutting it down too quickly. And it can be easily fixed by adding some more air.  

Keystone is probably equal to the Chinook in terms of heat output. Decisions, decisions.......


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## lsucet (Jan 6, 2018)

coutufr said:


> Creosote smell is comming from the door hinge gasket. The reason is not clear but we all have a theory as to why. When it is warmer outside or at the beginning of the season it bothers me more. There are 3 known solutions: change the gasket for a graphite saturated one, readjust the door or burn hotter. I tried the last 2 solutions with marginal improvement at best. Draft certainly has an impact but when you are within the installation manual requirements I don’t see why someone would need to try to increase the draft to try to solve the problem.



Is related to many factors, location, bents, surrounding, etc. The same 15' as for the manual at different altitude i assume,  it will not work the same.


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## coutufr (Jan 6, 2018)

From the stove top I have over 25 feet of chimney running mostly inside the house, with 2 45 degrees. The whole setup is 1 year old, was bought brand new and was installed by a professional. It is -10 F outside, Thermostat is at 3 o’clock and it is almost only coal remaining inside the stove. I can still smell the creosote odor. I love the Ashford, would buy it again but if the draft is what is causing the creosote smell I don’t think I will ever have enough draft to eliminate it.


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2018)

lsucet said:


> Is related to many factors, location, bents, surrounding, etc. The same 15' as for the manual at different altitude i assume,  it will not work the same.



Like bends, altitude affects draft strength. Related to air density at lower atmospheric pressure due to less of that heavy air between you and the moon!

I would enjoy testing my draft. I’m guessing that very few forum members, stove enthusiasts, have ever used a draft meter.


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## lsucet (Jan 6, 2018)

Highbeam said:


> Like bends, altitude affects draft strength. Related to air density at lower atmospheric pressure due to less of that heavy air between you and the moon!
> 
> I would enjoy testing my draft. I’m guessing that very few forum members, stove enthusiasts, have ever used a draft meter.


It will not hurt at all to test it. This is the way i see it. There is a lot of contradiction on those statement on any manual related to wood stoves. they all say, depending manufacture that do not exceed 0.05 or 0.06. We all know that the wood needs to be char and the temp in the firebox will rise and flue temp will also be higher exceeding those WC figures. Including the shortest chimney will go over when burning hot.
The only way i see that can be under control is installing a barometric damper inline. I did it with previous stove for about a week but i know was not recommended for solid fuel.But, yes, it did work. with the BK you can have the proper draft maybe when the thermostat is closed, but what happens when opens up asking for more heat? It will exceed those numbers in no time.  I don't know what can be the solution to all this draft issue. What can be the solution is not recommended.

Many of us don't have choices to modified the setup cause other regulations. How can we fix this if draft is the issue?


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2018)

Maybe draft has nothing to do with it and we’re barking up the wrong tree. Even if that’s the case, the specifications in the manual need to be fixed.


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## aaronk25 (Jan 6, 2018)

lsucet said:


> with the BK you can have the proper draft maybe when the thermostat is closed, but what happens when opens up asking for more heat? It will exceed those numbers in no time.



See that’s the thing, if it’s cold the draft is the highest at closed T-stat due to the chimney pulling hard against the shut T-stat.  Keep in mind the airwash is between the two.  The draft is still higher than full open T-stat ever after a hour of cruising at low temperature after the chimney has cooled some.  

Total volume of air movement is way less at closed T-stat but with a well insulated chimney the pressure difference is high because the chimeny can’t pull enough air due to the T-stat is closed.    It really comes down to how much heat does the chimney retain (how well insulated)?   The manufactured chimneys inside a chase blocking the wind are amazing from this standpoint.

This is proven by seeing a manometer reading of .9 at closed T stat then going full open and it will drop to .05, initially.  After 20 mins (chimney warms) it might clime to .12 (just a example).   

So why would t it stink at .12 on high vs .9 on low?   Well your moving day 3 times or more air volume compared to t stat set at low and air has weight and velocity, so the shear column of the air going across the air wash is way higher and the air continues down the face of the glass and keeps the smoke off the glass and the stink as well.





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## lsucet (Jan 6, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> See that’s the thing, if it’s cold the draft is the highest at closed T-stat due to the chimney pulling hard against the shut T-stat.  Keep in mind the airwash is between the two.  The draft is still higher than full open T-stat ever after a hour of cruising at low temperature after the chimney has cooled some.
> 
> Total volume of air movement is way less at closed T-stat but with a well insulated chimney the pressure difference is high because the chimeny can’t pull enough air due to the T-stat is closed.    It really comes down to how much heat does the chimney retain (how well insulated)?   The manufactured chimneys inside a chase blocking the wind are amazing from this standpoint.
> 
> ...


Understood and great explanation. What still bring the question of, What can be done to keep a steady draft regardless t-stat operation?
As I mentioned before the component that can fix that issue it is not recommended unless a professional decide and give the ok.
And then, you will have room air going straight into the chimney plus the smell of creosote. You fix one and still have the other.

Key damper helps but don't fix it and keep adding more key dampers to the system is insane. What is the solution here? This is a good one.


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## aaronk25 (Jan 6, 2018)

Ya your right and the key damper is only good at a given (static T stat setting and fuel load) plus it’s manual, but the only other option is a barometric damper but the downside you mention of using room air and then cooling the chimney is a sucky option.  

Need a key damper that is electronically controlled thermostatic controlled but that kills the beauty of the simple wood stove, plus I don’t think there available.  Even the fans take away from the “pureness” of  wood burning.   

I don’t know the answer.   I think I could figure it out but like many this is a hobby for me, not what I do for a living.


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

Very frustrating, to say the least. Having to rob Peter to pay Paul with a $4000 appliance is not what I have in mind. 

Now that the cold is moving out of the east and I'm turning the stove back, I get to smell it's ugly stink. The good news is that the stench rises, and now that we have a two story house, it's mostly headed upstairs where we don't spend as much time.

Would be grateful of anyone chiming in to offer a known solution...for now, I'm going to keep charing the wood really well and run it hotter than I want to try to minimize the smell...


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

weatherguy said:


> I remember another member had the PH and couldnt solve the smoke smell issue. After many tries gave up got their money back and got another brand stove. Same issue. Turned out it was a problem with his house. I only bring it up because you have to look at everything not just the stove.


I am intrigued by your comment. I don't know if any of you read a post that I wrote before having my new BK installed but one of the installers tried to convince me to move the stove to the North or west side of my house instead of the south or east because of a theory that the stove would work better-  about gravitational pull rotation of the Earth. Everyone on the forum seemed to dispel this crazy theory and now I can't help but question whether there was some truth to it... Why is it that I seem to be having issues with these stoves While others do not. I've gone through all of the common denominators like my wood moisture, Etc and just can't seem to pinpoint the issue.


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I was certain regarding my new purchase come spring time. A Chinook was going into my newly constructed house.
> 
> This smoke thing makes me nervous.......
> 
> ...


I used to own a VC encore and know all too well of the back puffing woes. The Blaze King is superior in its ability to regulate the burn rate ie the thermostat. The Encore was supposed to have the same technology but couldn't come close to the Blaze King in my experience. The room it was in was so I comfortably hot no matter the thermostat setting. Never again.

As much as I love nearly everything about the stove, I won't be buying another and sadly can't recommend it to anyone who has a sensitive nose. I have seen enough testimony on this forum alone to believe that the stove is at least susceptible to a smoke smell under certain conditions. I'm not entirely sure what these conditions are since I smell it nearly all the time at the beginning of a load, and it's present for the first half of the load on low. I believe that some smell is normal for burning wood inside a house and I also believe that this stove is capable of burning without a smell for some. I only seek to help others and to help myself by writing my testimony on this forum. Hopefully some good can come from it! And if BK reaches out and wants to try to put some resources into fixing it, I will gladly accept help. I certainly WANT to help find a solution and perfect the stove. 

I'm not on the Forum enough to be able to recommend a stove that would compete with the Chinook. My parents have a Woodstock stove and it comes with its own challenges. My in-laws have a Hearthstone and I haven't heard of any issues from them (their house is always 80 degrees though - don't know if those things can be turned down) . Just my anecdotal observation, I also have not seen any negative comments about any Pacific Energy stoves either, but then again, I'm only reading forums that interest me; I don't read them all.


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## begreen (Jan 8, 2018)

Did you also have a Woodstock stove at one point?


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## DuaeGuttae (Jan 8, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> And if BK reaches out and wants to try to put some resources into fixing it, I will gladly accept help. I certainly WANT to help find a solution and perfect the stove.



Have you seen BKVP’s request for information that he posted on the Everything BK thread?  I think it’s post 771.  It looks like the company is committed to resolving the situation for every user.

I appreciate your posting your experiences.  I think it helps people be more informed and as someone considering a BK in the future, I am following this issue.


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

begreen said:


> Did you also have a Woodstock stove at one point?


Nope, never. My parents have a PH...I used to have a VC Encore 2n1


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## aaronk25 (Jan 8, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> I used to own a VC encore and know all too well of the back puffing woes. The Blaze King is superior in its ability to regulate the burn rate ie the thermostat. The Encore was supposed to have the same technology but couldn't come close to the Blaze King in my experience. The room it was in was so I comfortably hot no matter the thermostat setting. Never again.
> 
> As much as I love nearly everything about the stove, I won't be buying another and sadly can't recommend it to anyone who has a sensitive nose. I have seen enough testimony on this forum alone to believe that the stove is at least susceptible to a smoke smell under certain conditions. I'm not entirely sure what these conditions are since I smell it nearly all the time at the beginning of a load, and it's present for the first half of the load on low. I believe that some smell is normal for burning wood inside a house and I also believe that this stove is capable of burning without a smell for some. I only seek to help others and to help myself by writing my testimony on this forum. Hopefully some good can come from it! And if BK reaches out and wants to try to put some resources into fixing it, I will gladly accept help. I certainly WANT to help find a solution and perfect the stove.
> 
> I'm not on the Forum enough to be able to recommend a stove that would compete with the Chinook. My parents have a Woodstock stove and it comes with its own challenges. My in-laws have a Hearthstone and I haven't heard of any issues from them (their house is always 80 degrees though - don't know if those things can be turned down) . Just my anecdotal observation, I also have not seen any negative comments about any Pacific Energy stoves either, but then again, I'm only reading forums that interest me; I don't read them all.



Others on here including myself have pointed out how critical it is to ensure your draft is within spec .03-.05.  I haven’t seen anywhere in your posts where you took the advice and check this VERY VERY critical measurement.   Without doing your due diligence first you are not in a position to be offering creditable negative recommendations.  

How about take the advice others have laid out and report back and let us know what the result is?


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Others on here including myself have pointed out how critical it is to ensure your draft is within spec .03-.05.  I haven’t seen anywhere in your posts where you took the advice and check this VERY VERY critical measurement.   Without doing your due diligence first you are not in a position to be offering creditable negative recommendations.
> 
> How about take the advice others have laid out and report back and let us know what the result is?


I can certainly try. I have no experience with it, so how would I go about doing this? Must I hire someone?


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## begreen (Jan 8, 2018)

It might be better for BK to have the dealer come out and do this measurement. The target spec is very narrow and IMO not reflective of real world variations in draft. Seasonal temperature variations can change draft readings significantly.


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## Joyboy (Jan 8, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Others on here including myself have pointed out how critical it is to ensure your draft is within spec .03-.05.  I haven’t seen anywhere in your posts where you took the advice and check this VERY VERY critical measurement.   Without doing your due diligence first you are not in a position to be offering creditable negative recommendations.
> 
> How about take the advice others have laid out and report back and let us know what the result is?



Sure he can offer recommendations. He has now owned two of the stoves. Some people argue against stoves they haven’t ever owned. It’s his opinion.

Not everyone is interested in troubleshooting and fixing problems.

I know there are many happy owners on here that don’t have this problem. But it doesn’t mean his opinion doesn’t count.


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## Highbeam (Jan 8, 2018)

Only a handful of forum participants, all of us stove overachievers, have ever touched a manometer. The focus has been on chimney height and construction specifics until just recently. 

We don’t even know if bk has decided whether the minimum chimney height requirement or the draft strength requirement is more important but we do know that you usually can’t hit both.


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2018)

DuaeGuttae said:


> Have you seen BKVP’s request for information that he posted on the Everything BK thread?  I think it’s post 771.  It looks like the company is committed to resolving the situation for every user.
> 
> I appreciate your posting your experiences.  I think it helps people be more informed and as someone considering a BK in the future, I am following this issue.


I have not seen that; unfortunately don’t have time to keep up with the BK thread.  I will look for that post...


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## aaronk25 (Jan 8, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> I can certainly try. I have no experience with it, so how would I go about doing this? Must I hire someone?



Ok that’s a real fair question.   I’d be glad to help.   You can certainly hire a chimney sweeper but ask them if they have the ability to do a manometer test.   Run it on high for 30 mins to get the chimney up to hot temp and check the reading.    Do the same on low.

If you want to do it yourself, it’s simple.   This manometer will do it.  It’s simple but precise, at least for stove and (furnace work if that ever arises).  Buy a digital one if you want, but this is about as cheap as it gets with precision.   What it involves with this unit is setting it on a flat surface or mounting on wall behind.  It has its own built in level so it’s easy to get it level so it will give a correct reading.  

It comes with a 1/8” rubber tube about 8’ worth but the challenge is if you use the rubber tube to check draft you get about a 2 sec reading and then it starts to melt.  What I found that works is:

Manometer:

https://www.zoro.com/dwyer-instrume...MI3faotNHJ2AIV27jACh0fjgUYEAQYCCABEgIEd_D_BwE

Tubing:
	

		
			
		

		
	





The soft rubber tube that comes with the manometer will fit inside the copper tube.  After pushing about a inch in it gets hard to push any further.   Ok pull it out and out a dab of silicone around the first inch of rubber tube then push it in to the copper tube.  The smear silicone around the transition between the 2.  Let it dry.   Then test it, by sucking very gently on the copper tube (yay I know), while u watch the manometer, then lick your thumb and quickly cover the hole.   If you did it fast the manometer should show a rise and short fall that stopped when u put your thumb over it. 

It should stay at this indication until you release your thumb.  If your transition between hoses leaks you will see the manometer drop with your thumb over it.  

Ok it’s kinda a cool little instrument.   But by now your probably annoyed with this whole ordeal so moving on.......

You can leave the copper at full length or trim it upto you, the test will come out the same.    With a leather glove pull your cat thermometer out of the whole and put the copper end in.   Now watch your manometer.   Have fun with it, burn it on high for a while then turn down the T-stat abruptly.  With 25’ of chimney drafting hard what I think you will see is your manometer spike way up and you will smell your stink or your stoves stink I mean.  Here some more pics......ok here is unhooked 
	

		
			
		

		
	




See the tube ready to go in cat hole?::::




Ok tube in hole:



Here is the reading with a 600f flue on high but with the stove top damper partly closed (also see the transition between copper to rubber hose):





So here is damper wide open:




See the draft is to high when the damper is open.  It was even slightly high when it was partially closed but it early in the burn and I’ve learned the chimney will cool and reduce draft and it will end up right at .04ish.

It’s easy to do but hire a pro if you don’t want to.   Oh and the second I flipped the damper to full open, take one guess what I smelt.   Yep.


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## coutufr (Jan 8, 2018)

Is there someone who understands why too much draft could cause a woodstove to emit a smell. I believe it does just I don’t understand why?


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## aaronk25 (Jan 8, 2018)

coutufr said:


> Is there someone who understands why too much draft could cause a woodstove to emit a smell. I believe it does just I don’t understand why?




It’s just a theory.  But t stat gets closed and chimney is pulling (drafting) in excess of spec and draw a pretend line though how the air flows though the stove.  Off the air wash down the glass door to bottom or middle of fire, then exits up though the cat.

The chimney is like a vacuum, the t-stat restricts the flow, then if the draft is to high the air goes directly from the airwash to the cat(or some of the air), when the laminar flow of air breaks down the air becomes turbulent and buffets.   Anyone ever been up for a flight lesson knows that when you slow a plane up until it won’t fly it pulses (buffets) for a few seconds and drops.   I this instance the angle air wash is the wing and when the flow of air separates due to excessive low pressure, vaccum, draft or whatever term works the best, the air bangs against the glass.

It pushes the leached creosote further into the gasket and the. The hot knife edge vaporizes the smoke or kind of smolders it.

And that advice may be worth just as much as what you paid for it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## coutufr (Jan 8, 2018)

It makes sense. Turbulence caused by excessive draft is causing the smell. Is it standard for a woodstove to have such a tight target for draft?


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## Highbeam (Jan 9, 2018)

The low and tight draft spec is not unique to bk. Trouble is, almost nobody ever checks it, they just make sure their chimney meets the minimum length requirement. The wood furnace guys use a barometric damper to hit the low draft spec which is not desirable for a stove.


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## rdust (Jan 9, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Others on here including myself have pointed out how critical it is to ensure your draft is within spec .03-.05.  I haven’t seen anywhere in your posts where you took the advice and check this VERY VERY critical measurement.   Without doing your due diligence first you are not in a position to be offering creditable negative recommendations.
> 
> How about take the advice others have laid out and report back and let us know what the result is?




You can’t build a stove and market it to the masses that requires a “critical” draft window.  His chimney is a 25’, this stove should be working plain and simple.

25’ straight up, double wall with an OAK, that’s what you call a slam dunk. 

I’ve hung out here a long time now and have never read about any other stove brand having this many issues that are the same.(not counting VC junkers)

Woodstock had a smell issue with the PH and fixed it quickly.


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## tarzan (Jan 9, 2018)

rdust said:


> You can’t build a stove and market it to the masses that requires a “critical” draft window.  His chimney is a 25’, this stove should be working plain and simple.
> 
> 25’ straight up, double wall with an OAK, that’s what you call a slam dunk.
> 
> ...



I agree. I love my BK but if I were to have to install a manometer and a manual draft damper so I could constantly monitor and correct inches of water column so it wouldn't stink up my house, that would be a deal breaker!


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## Calentarse (Jan 9, 2018)

Wow, boy have I stirred the pot. I appreciate everyone’s opinions and posts.

@aaronk25 thank you for that write up with the pictures. I will come right out and say that I do not have the time, patience, or ability to do that. If BK says it has to be done, I’ll call someone in HVAC or my installer to see if they can help me. I really appreciate you sharing your opinion and have confidence in your theory. I just worry that if it’s true I may have to replace this stove because there’s no way I’m manually controlling all that. Maybe one day when I am retired!

At my old house I spent well over $1000 adding and swapping out pipe for the best scenario I could in a rancher. I replaced bolts for the window gasket, and replaced the RTV once by myself and paid for my sweep to come out and do it his way. We never did resolve the issue, although I do think it improved slightly when my installer put in his white rope gasket in his expert manner.

Now, in my new house, I have spent $6800 on a new setup, moving the stove in the room to a somewhat odd place to avoid rafters forcing the installer to go straight up (through a bedroom!) and not curve into a closet, so I could have no bends, all to avoid a smoke smell presumably caused by poor draft. I added an extra 4’ on the roof just to be absolutely sure I had enough draft to avoid this issue. I have worked my tail off getting cords and cords of extra wood these past few years, striving to get far ahead, and moved the entire pile out from under trees into the sun, keeping it fully covered on top, to ensure my wood is seasoned (some of the maple is like paper around 10-12%). After everything I have been through, I’m finding it hard to believe that this is not a design defect. I also SMH to think that one must use a manometer and manual dampers to avoid this smell.

I’m an open-minded guy who will gladly work with BK to troubleshoot further because I do love the stove (it passes the WAF) and I want to get this issue resolved. I’m still amazed it can operate the way it does and don’t want it to be too good to be true. I think I will respond to @BKVP s offer from post 771 of the BK thread.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 9, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Yep and they really like it. The cat gets dirty and has to be removed and cleaned, but it’s better than the old Momma Bear!


I read recently that owners that have the ash grate don't have that problem. I'm guessing your folks don't have the ash grate?


Calentarse said:


> Now I have an ideal setup and it pulls too hard: still have smell. What’s a guy to do...


I would install the flue damper as @aaronk25 did. IMO his is the most plausible theory put forth so far. I might also try re-doing the door gasket but putting more glue under the area that you think the stink is coming from, to make the gasket tighter against the knife edge in that area.


Calentarse said:


> I just wish someone could find the issue with the door and provide some sort of a fix, if it’s even possible to fix. If it isn’t, I guess I need to consider a non-cat...


Well, I wouldn't want to give up the long, low burns. There _*are*_ other cat stoves out there to choose from..


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## Woody Stover (Jan 9, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I was certain regarding my new purchase come spring time. A Chinook was going into my newly constructed house. This smoke thing makes me nervous.......Keystone is probably equal to the Chinook in terms of heat output. Decisions, decisions.......


Depends how big your house is, but on the website they say "up to 1300 sq.ft." for the Keystone..


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## Calentarse (Jan 9, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> Well, I wouldn't want to give up the long, low burns. There _*are*_ other cat stoves out there to choose from..


Any that burn up to 30 hours, come in white enamel, and heat 2200 square feet with no smoke smell?


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## Diabel (Jan 9, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> Depends how big your house is, but on the website they say "up to 1300 sq.ft." for the Keystone..



This sucker will have to heat 1000sqf very well insulated walkout basement and if any heat migrates upstairs via small stairwell it will be bonus.

I was thinking of cutting out a hole 2'x4' in one of the bedrooms upstairs to get the convection going, but it is illegal unless install some sort of fire preventing gizmo.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 9, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Any that burn up to 30 hours, come in white enamel, and heat 2200 square feet with no smoke smell?


I've said it before but I gather you don't have time to read the forum all that often so I'll recap. If you burn the stove low enough to get 30 hrs. out of a load, it must be pretty warm out because the heat output over that time from the BK will be very low. My firebox is only half the size but I can have a few coals left at 24 hrs. if I cut the air down. And even though the stove top is barely warm, my leaky house with uninsulated walls has only dropped a few degrees room temp because it's not that cold outside. So instead of loading onto the coals and burning the load in for 30 minutes with the air wide open, which is stated in the manual and many BK owners here say you must do, I will instead shove the remaining coals to the back and light a top-down fire, have no smoke out of the stack while the stove comes up to temp, and not burn up wood unnecessarily in the process. Lighting a top-down fire is easy for me so I don't place a high priority on always having a coal bed to load onto. On my 16' liner, with the stove rear-vented and temps as high as the upper 50s outside, I can burn at any air setting/draft strength I want, with no smoke smell or smoke roll-out when I open the door (side loader, so it's less prone.)
My little stove won't heat 2200 sq.ft. but other cat stoves will. No, most of them won't have the Wife Approval Factor of a white enamel stove (which I would also find attractive) but the WAF isn't the top priority for me either..it's all about stove quality, engineering and performance. And I don't care if occasional visitors are impressed with the look of my stove or not. My rear-vented into the fireplace setup has *got* to look better than a big ol' ugly black pipe dominating the space anyway. 


Diabel said:


> This sucker will have to heat 1000sqf very well insulated walkout basement and if any heat migrates upstairs via small stairwell it will be bonus. I was thinking of cutting out a hole 2'x4' in one of the bedrooms upstairs to get the convection going, but it is illegal unless install some sort of fire preventing gizmo.


Kind of a threadjack here but this topic has been flogged to death so many times with no resolution that BKVP doesn't even show up anymore. I think aaronk25 may be onto something though..
The Ks would heat the heck out of that space, and you would feel the radiation of the stove within line-of-sight of the stove, within most of that room..a help if some of that heat is going upstairs, and the downstairs might be a couple degrees cooler. It's gonna depend how much heat you allow to go upstairs. You don't have another stove up there, I take it? I moderate the heat going to the bedroom by how far I have that door open. Ash grate=High priority for me. That and the big window is why I went from the Fireview to the Ks.
A 2x4' opening would allow a huge amount of warm air upstairs. You might want to go with a bigger stove if cutting your heat bill is a consideration.


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## DuaeGuttae (Jan 9, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> Kind of a threadjack here but this topic has been flogged to death so many times with no resolution that BKVP doesn't even show up anymore.


  I feel this is unfair.  BKVP has been very helpful on this forum even just in recent weeks reaching out to customers with this problem.  (See the above referenced post 771 of the BK thread.). He may not even have seen this current thread as he’s out of the office this week and next (he mentioned that while helping a customer of an old stove get a manual). Just because he hasn’t responded to this particular thread in the few days that it has been open doesn’t mean the company has given up on addressing the issue.


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## blacktop37 (Jan 9, 2018)

Do you have a new air tight house? I would not trust any stove with a modern tight energy efficient home without an OAK. Any exhaust or furnace flu, gas hot water flu, dryer, cook stove vent, bathroom fan could cause a belch of smoke.  A tiny amount of smoke would smell. Even the cold outside air coming into a hot stove creates such an exchange of air it is amazing to watch in the glass as the sparks shoot out the stove at amazing speed.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 9, 2018)

DuaeGuttae said:


> I feel this is unfair.  BKVP has been very helpful on this forum even just in recent weeks reaching out to customers with this problem.


OK, that was overstating it on my part. He tries to help but all he can do is run through the standard fixes, which don't work in some of these cases. I'm sure they're working on it but until they come up with an answer, that's where it stands. It's been going on for years..


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## SuperJ (Jan 9, 2018)

I fixed my Ashford smoke smell, by correcting the door/front panel alignment (this was suggested by Dennis from Blaze King Canada).  Had to shove it to the left a fraction of an inch to better center the knife edge on the gasket.  The smell is a small fraction of what it used to be, I attribute that to the creosote soaked gasket.


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## Ashful (Jan 9, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> I just wish someone could find the issue with the door and provide some sort of a fix, if it’s even possible to fix. If it isn’t, I guess I need to consider a non-cat...


There is a new Ashford door with a new type of gasket that has been shipped by BK to at least one hearth.com member for testing.  So far, feedback is positive.  I think it's in the usual BK Performance thread, but several pages back, at this point.



Diabel said:


> I am very interested in this too. All three are the same stove in a different dress.





Calentarse said:


> I have seen reports of it with both other owners. If you look back on the threads you will see comments from owners of both with the same issue. I'm currently conversing with someone with a Sirocco 20 that has the issue, so it's not just the Ashford and not just the 30 box.


The Ashford 30 must sell 10 to 1 over the Sirocco and Chinook, so a lack of more Sirocco and Chinook complainers is not evidence that the problem is unique to the Ashford.



Highbeam said:


> Agreed. Seems the bk manual sets us up for failure. Requires a very tall chimney but then requires a very low draft. How can you satisfy both? Even if you could, would that stop leakage?


I've just started testing this, but it does appear the target is not very wide.  Minimum 15 feet, maximum .06" WC.  I can tell you one test on 29 feet of pipe at 27F yielded over 0.15" WC, which is 2.5x allowable maximum.  Obviously, that pipe will be getting a key damper, very soon.



lsucet said:


> ...with the BK you can have the proper draft maybe when the thermostat is closed, but what happens when opens up asking for more heat? It will exceed those numbers in no time.  I don't know what can be the solution to all this draft issue. What can be the solution is not recommended.


The specification is very clear.  You are really over-thinking this.  Run stove on high for a period long enough for your chimney to reach equilibrium temperature and pressure (eg. the 30 minutes you're supposed to run on high after closing the bypass damper).  At the end of this period, check draft with stove operating on highest setting, and ensure it's under .06" WC.  Period.  They do NOT (at least in my Ashford 30.1 manual) give any specification of draft requirement under any other operating condition, only "on high burn".



rdust said:


> You can’t build a stove and market it to the masses that requires a “critical” draft window.  His chimney is a 25’, this stove should be working plain and simple.


There are plenty of simple stoves out there.  But here we're talking about the only stove on earth that will go 10-12 hours on each cubic foot of wood you put in the firebox.  You can't push the envelope, without expecting some tighter constraints on your setup.  Sometimes the envelope pushes back.



rdust said:


> 25’ straight up, double wall with an OAK, that’s what you call a slam dunk.


See user manual.  "Draft over 0.06" WC will void warranty."  At 25 feet, I can almost guarantee he's over 0.06" WC by at least 2x.  Thankfully, BK has been covering these issues under warranty, anyway.



DuaeGuttae said:


> I feel this is unfair.  BKVP has been very helpful on this forum even just in recent weeks reaching out to customers with this problem.  (See the above referenced post 771 of the BK thread.). He may not even have seen this current thread as he’s out of the office this week and next (he mentioned that while helping a customer of an old stove get a manual). Just because he hasn’t responded to this particular thread in the few days that it has been open doesn’t mean the company has given up on addressing the issue.


I believe this is correct.  I spoke with him last week, and he indicated he'd be unavailable the next two weeks, but he already posted there are folks actively working on this at BK.


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## coutufr (Jan 9, 2018)

We need to be patient and keep experimenting and work has a team to resolve this. Besides that I love everything about this wood stove. Also BKVP is a true professional and one of the most passionate member on this forum. I am confident that a solution that will work for everyone is around the corner.


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## aaronk25 (Jan 10, 2018)

One question for anyone with the issue,  if your door gasket is looser than it should be to the point where when latch it would fail then dollar bill test, marginally do you have this smell?

Noticed it is worse on a tight seal.   Now I’m running a princess, but under the right circumstances on low I get the smell.  Now for preserving the cat and maybe other reasons we wouldn’t want to run it this way but, when you notice the smell, ever so slightly start unlatching the handle just enough to take some pressure off the door rope seal.  Not enough to show a gap or even change the “glow” of the logs or coals just ever so slightly take a touch of weight off it the seal and let me know if the smell is gone.  I think the answer will be yes, but I’d like to know from a few others.  Disclaimer: And for gods sake don’t run your stove like this unattended or any significant duration.   This is just a test.

I’m going down a different path trying a couple ideas.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ashful (Jan 10, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> One question for anyone with the issue,  if your door gasket is looser than it should be to the point where when latch it would fail then dollar bill test, marginally do you have this smell?
> 
> Noticed it is worse on a tight seal.   Now I’m running a princess, but under the right circumstances on low I get the smell.  Now for preserving the cat and maybe other reasons we wouldn’t want to run it this way but, when you notice the smell, ever so slightly start unlatching the handle just enough to take some pressure off the door rope seal.  Not enough to show a gap or even change the “glow” of the logs or coals just ever so slightly take a touch of weight off it the seal and let me know if the smell is gone.  I think the answer will be yes, but I’d like to know from a few others.  Disclaimer: And for gods sake don’t run your stove like this unattended or any significant duration.   This is just a test.
> 
> ...



There are so many threads on BK smoke smell now, I’m losing track of the source of various comments made, but I do recall reading one account of exactly what you’re saying.  Namely, tightening the door latch made the smell immediately and noticeably worse on the hinge side.  The comment was made in just the last two days, if you want to try to find the original source.


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## BKVP (Jan 10, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> I've said it before but I gather you don't have time to read the forum all that often so I'll recap. If you burn the stove low enough to get 30 hrs. out of a load, it must be pretty warm out because the heat output over that time from the BK will be very low. My firebox is only half the size but I can have a few coals left at 24 hrs. if I cut the air down. And even though the stove top is barely warm, my leaky house with uninsulated walls has only dropped a few degrees room temp because it's not that cold outside. So instead of loading onto the coals and burning the load in for 30 minutes with the air wide open, which is stated in the manual and many BK owners here say you must do, I will instead shove the remaining coals to the back and light a top-down fire, have no smoke out of the stack while the stove comes up to temp, and not burn up wood unnecessarily in the process. Lighting a top-down fire is easy for me so I don't place a high priority on always having a coal bed to load onto. On my 16' liner, with the stove rear-vented and temps as high as the upper 50s outside, I can burn at any air setting/draft strength I want, with no smoke smell or smoke roll-out when I open the door (side loader, so it's less prone.)
> My little stove won't heat 2200 sq.ft. but other cat stoves will. No, most of them won't have the Wife Approval Factor of a white enamel stove (which I would also find attractive) but the WAF isn't the top priority for me either..it's all about stove quality, engineering and performance. And I don't care if occasional visitors are impressed with the look of my stove or not. My rear-vented into the fireplace setup has *got* to look better than a big ol' ugly black pipe dominating the space anyway.
> Kind of a threadjack here but this topic has been flogged to death so many times with no resolution that BKVP doesn't even show up anymore. I think aaronk25 may be onto something though..
> The Ks would heat the heck out of that space, and you would feel the radiation of the stove within line-of-sight of the stove, within most of that room..a help if some of that heat is going upstairs, and the downstairs might be a couple degrees cooler. It's gonna depend how much heat you allow to go upstairs. You don't have another stove up there, I take it? I moderate the heat going to the bedroom by how far I have that door open. Ash grate=High priority for me. That and the big window is why I went from the Fireview to the Ks.
> A 2x4' opening would allow a huge amount of warm air upstairs. You might want to go with a bigger stove if cutting your heat bill is a consideration.


Woody,

Respectfully I haven't gone anywhere.  We are trying to work with those folks that have issues.  There is so much "static" and multiple threads covering the same 6-8 owners that we are using PM.

We've not found a definitive solution.  But as you read here, in one circumstance, moving door alignment seems to have helped.  

In other circumstances it has not.  Unfortunately the very nature of this is install application specific.

We are trying...customer satisfaction is our most important goal in these instances.

Thank you 
Chris


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## Calentarse (Jan 10, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> One question for anyone with the issue,  if your door gasket is looser than it should be to the point where when latch it would fail then dollar bill test, marginally do you have this smell?
> 
> Noticed it is worse on a tight seal.   Now I’m running a princess, but under the right circumstances on low I get the smell.  Now for preserving the cat and maybe other reasons we wouldn’t want to run it this way but, when you notice the smell, ever so slightly start unlatching the handle just enough to take some pressure off the door rope seal.  Not enough to show a gap or even change the “glow” of the logs or coals just ever so slightly take a touch of weight off it the seal and let me know if the smell is gone.  I think the answer will be yes, but I’d like to know from a few others.  Disclaimer: And for gods sake don’t run your stove like this unattended or any significant duration.   This is just a test.
> 
> ...


@aaronk25 you are absolutely right, this reduces the smell. I’m on a freshly charred load, tstat on 330 o’clock for the night, about 40 mins into the reload, cat engaged. I undo my handle but hold pressure on it keeping the door shut. Smell goes almost entirely away.

@Ashful It was me that noticed that the smell got worse with the tightening of the door latch. I only recently tightened mine after having my first few fires with the new stove as I was giving it a once over before I had my first long hot burn. I only slightly tightened the handle. I think it made the smell more pronounced.


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## coutufr (Jan 10, 2018)

Air rush inside the wood stove picking up the creosote odor and bringing it inside to wood stove. I guess regular wood stoves do not smell because the handle is looser and there is always air seeping inside. For us air kills the CAT [emoji250] so the door needs to be super tight.


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## coutufr (Jan 10, 2018)

My father has a cheap wood stove bought 30 years ago. He burn any kind of wood with anything on it. He changes the door gasket only when it is worned out. He likes to make small burns and he cut the air getting inside the stove to the max. I lived there 20 years and my bed was just above that stove. I have never smelled the creosote smell when the door was closed. This is why I think the solution lies in the door gasket.


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## Gotrek (Jan 11, 2018)

Scirocco owner.  We had what's I'd call  more of a creosote smell then smoke.  Smelled like Mesquite BBQ.  And only when running low and slow.  I read your thread in the past and noticed my gasket was crushed in one spot.  BK got me a new gasket and I installed it and it fixed the problem for the most part.  I noticed a bit of smell again this year but I believe I'm due for a door adjustment as this point

I'll report back if that doesn't do it

and it won't be soon since we're going back into the -3X celsius range this week   The stove runs 24/7


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## Calentarse (Jan 11, 2018)

Gotrek said:


> Scirocco owner.  We had what's I'd call  more of a creosote smell then smoke.  Smelled like Mesquite BBQ.  And only when running low and slow.  I read your thread in the past and noticed my gasket was crushed in one spot.  BK got me a new gasket and I installed it and it fixed the problem for the most part.  I noticed a bit of smell again this year but I believe I'm due for a door adjustment as this point
> 
> I'll report back if that doesn't do it
> 
> and it won't be soon since we're going back into the -3X celsius range this week   The stove runs 24/7


Yes, it is a sweeter, even burnt oil smell. Some say it smells like creosote - I'm not even sure exactly what that smells like.  No smoke is ever visible on my stoves with the issue.


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## Tegbert (Jan 11, 2018)

Gotrek said:


> Scirocco owner.  We had what's I'd call  more of a creosote smell then smoke.  Smelled like Mesquite BBQ.  And only when running low and slow.  I read your thread in the past and noticed my gasket was crushed in one spot.  BK got me a new gasket and I installed it and it fixed the problem for the most part.  I noticed a bit of smell again this year but I believe I'm due for a door adjustment as this point
> 
> I'll report back if that doesn't do it
> 
> and it won't be soon since we're going back into the -3X celsius range this week   The stove runs 24/7



I’m in the same boat occasionally I get a smell (and most times it’s when I’m right up on it checking the cat thermometer never really in the room) and I agree that I think it’s is a creosote smell not smoke. I want to think that is what everyone who’s having this issue is smelling the same thing and just saying it’s smoke since they have a fire in a box in there house. But since we can’t just hop on in to their stove room and verify the smell we have to go by what they are saying. 

Back on to the draft measurement I know the ashford 30.1 manual says a max of .06. I was curious since I don’t recall that being specified in the ashford 25 manual and sure enough I don’t see it anywhere. Is the insert less sensitive to draft measurement or whatever? Seems weird that one calls a specific max and another does not. 


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25


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## Ignerence (Jan 11, 2018)

It would be great to know some of the various solutions on the _*public*_ forum?   My sirocco 30.1 still has a odor to it I try solving off and on.  I love the stove functionality, appearance and burn times, its just that dang lingering odor! haha    My neighbor pops by and they have a Myriad 2 with <12' total chimney with no odor issues... he always comments on the smoke smell and will look up and down the stove trying to solve my issue...  Can't say it doesn't embarrass me as we both know what I paid.   

  Its worst when I'm on low and turn it to high.... then I notice the smell a lot above the hinges, then above the stove and up with the heat to the roofline and it drops down in the cooler areas of the house..... the bedrooms.   

I tried replacing my door gasket with the woodlands high density white gasket, as its tighter woven.  It helped, however the problem remains tom some degree.  The door seal is definitely tighter with this gasket and I have a prefect indentation in the middle of the gasket all the way around the door so I suspect door alignment is fine.  I have gone as far as to order a second door assembly from my local dealer to experiment with.  When it arrives I plan to get to business too fully high temp silicone the window gaskets and window retainers, and door gaskets in.  Where else could the smell be escaping from is how I look at it?

  Previously I added 4' of class A double, to make my chimney have a total of 14' class A, and 6' of double wall.  two 45's hooked together for only a 3" offset to avoid a roof stud.   This is 20' of total chimney and the smell is still there even at -40 (crazy crazy amounts of draft, even with the stove cold & off it will suck a paper towel clean up the chimney).   

While not a major odor or issue and it is livable, if It could be solved it I bet my neighbor alone would buy a BK the next day as he see's how efficient it is but his first comment every time over is about the mild sweet lingering smoke smell that hits you when you come inside.


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## lsucet (Jan 11, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> It would be great to know some of the various solutions on the _*public*_ forum?   My sirocco 30.1 still has a odor to it I try solving off and on.  I love the stove functionality, appearance and burn times, its just that dang lingering odor! haha    My neighbor pops by and they have a Myriad 2 with <12' total chimney with no odor issues... he always comments on the smoke smell and will look up and down the stove trying to solve my issue...  Can't say it doesn't embarrass me as we both know what I paid.
> 
> Its worst when I'm on low and turn it to high.... then I notice the smell a lot above the hinges, then above the stove and up with the heat to the roofline and it drops down in the cooler areas of the house..... the bedrooms.
> 
> ...



He always is going to say something, that the way he gets back at you. Just kidding.
I will like to know if there is a way of sealing the intake, Bypass, Ash plug, cat probe hole, bypass handle shaft and be sure door gasket pass the bill test and put the stove under vacuum from the top at the collar and see if it holds it.  That could be a good test.


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## Gotrek (Jan 11, 2018)

Hard to do a dollar bill test on a door with a knife edge.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## shoot-straight (Jan 11, 2018)

BKVP said:


> Woody,
> 
> Respectfully I haven't gone anywhere.  We are trying to work with those folks that have issues.  There is so much "static" and multiple threads covering the same 6-8 owners that we are using PM.
> 
> ...



Chris, you have handled it like a true professional.


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## coutufr (Jan 29, 2018)

For those that are still looking at improving the smoke smell issue, have anyone tried with below 15% humidity and did you saw a decrease in the smell?


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## Gotrek (Jan 29, 2018)

coutufr said:


> For those that are still looking at improving the smoke smell issue, have anyone tried with below 15% humidity and did you saw a decrease in the smell?


I'm burning pine that's 13-14% moisture and we still get a creosote smell.  Again only burning on really low and again a lot less now that is replaced the door gasket.  It's been pretty cold so have not run on low a lot this year.  For.me new door gasket fixed it 90% is say.  And like previously posted I'm due for a door adjustment.  That might address it.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## coutufr (Jan 29, 2018)

I think I will  change the gasket next summer . What gasket did you use?


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## Gotrek (Jan 29, 2018)

coutufr said:


> I think I will  change the gasket next summer . What gasket did you use?


Bk had the Canadian rep send it to me so I'm not sure but he can advise

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## coutufr (Jan 29, 2018)

I still have the Quebec rep number so I will give that a try.


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## ratsrepus (Jan 30, 2018)

Is Calentarse  the only one having this problem?  Just started reading this thread, gotta head to work and will get into it better later on today


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## Ashful (Jan 30, 2018)

ratsrepus said:


> Is Calentarse  the only one having this problem?  Just started reading this thread, gotta head to work and will get into it better later on today



No.  There are about a half dozen folks with this issue.  BK is working on it.

I have also been able to produce it, and make it go away, by just changing from dry to wet wood on one of my stoves.  It seems to be a combination of factors, though... if it were as simple as wet wood, both of my stoves could make the smell, and many more would have the same problems.


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## Gotrek (Jan 30, 2018)

For me I consider the issue resolved still... with the gasket.  I need to adjust my door first warm spell it's getting done.  The other thing I did is change where the gasket  ends join it was ending in the top left and now it's in the bottom right. My nose always detected the smell in the upper left.

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## ratsrepus (Jan 30, 2018)

Long time problem with the ashford, or did this just pop up recently?


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## Ignerence (Jan 30, 2018)

Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people...  mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.

So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK.  Problem solved right?  nope.  While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree.  I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.

I replaced my door gasket with the high density white one in a attempt to fix it.  It helped, but on high, hot burns (like when cleaning the window) or when throttling up the stove there was a very clear smoke odor.  And I mean clear, not "is it the paint curing" or "maybe there was some smoke spillage the last re-load" type smell.  Enough my neighbor would try and find my issue every time he came over...

I hadn't burned the stove since the cold spell in the end of Dec start of Jan as the odor was getting to me a little.    We went to whitefish Montana and stayed in a log cabin two weeks ago with a wood stove, I cringed when others wanted to light it....  As I lighted it I noticed the split doors, top door, side door etc....  "ughhhhh this thing is going to smoke up in here terribly" I figured.... Not a hint of smoke.  Not once, ever.   I realized I wasn't being too picky and I do indeed have a issue at home with my stove.

So when I got home the investigation started, these things aren't Rocket appliances' (Ricky'ism  ).   Here's what I ened up finding after combing it over with a flashlight and fine tooth comb.







The corners rely on 100% weld penetration to seal the stove.  the front and rear plates extend past the side plates about 1" on each side.  BK welds the entire side plate perimeter, and the front and rear plates top (external) and bottom (internal).   This leave the back side of the front and rear plates un-welded for about 1".




Not a big deal right?  its external right?   You have left the thickness of the front and rear plate material non-welded.  Sure its only the fit up gap but clearly from the creosote in all 4 top corners of my stove shows this. The green line is where I welded to fix my smoke smell issue in all 4 top corners and bottom corners.





The red arrows represent the 4 corners that had visible creosote leaking.  The green arrows are corners that have the same weld issue but showed no leakage.

I ended up dragging in my welder and buzzed a 1" bead in the 8 corners after covering all the floors, other surfaces, removing paint ect.

after painting it back up and no other changes I ran her with ZERO smell , then, the next morning, I ran a full load on high for 3-4 hrs..... zero smell.   I then climbed up on the roof, and removed the 4' of extra class A I put on (looks so stupid sticking out of my roof 8') and ran the stove on high and low.... Zero smell.

I'm back to only ~15.5' total chimney, I put the screens back on my chimney cap, I've ran it a week high and low..... with absolutely zero odor.    And I mean zero.  None, zip zero.

Sure I welded on it, sure I probably fawked any warranty but I could care less. It leaked before and now it doesn't.

End of story.... check these corners for any creosote.


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## shoot-straight (Jan 30, 2018)

WOW that adds a new wrinkle to the smoke smell saga.


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## Mark8 (Jan 30, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people...  mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.
> 
> So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK.  Problem solved right?  nope.  While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree.  I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.
> 
> ...



Great job man, I'm exactly like you, I don't have the time to deal with the hassle and aggravation that's involved with warrantys. If you can fix it yourself do it.


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## Highbeam (Jan 30, 2018)

A


Ignerence said:


> Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people...  mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.
> 
> So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK.  Problem solved right?  nope.  While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree.  I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.
> 
> ...


 

Are you f’n kidding us? Your second stove ALSO had missed welds leaking liquid creo from the firebox? OMG!


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## ratsrepus (Jan 30, 2018)

Ok, time for Mr BKVP guy to respond. This is going to get interesting


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## Ignerence (Jan 30, 2018)

To be honest I wasn't sure if it would fix it when I welded as the creosote was very minimal in the corners.  I just thought it could only help...  But, it did solve it.  Its been over a week burning in everything from -20C to +7C.

Its not a missed weld IMO, is a intentional joint that relies on 100% weld fusion...  unfortunately that's hard with MIG at production speeds.


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## lsucet (Jan 30, 2018)

If that is the situation, there is no excuse for something like that regardless.


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## Highbeam (Jan 30, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> To be honest I wasn't sure if it would fix it when I welded as the creosote was very minimal in the corners.  I just thought it could only help...  But, it did solve it.  Its been over a week burning in everything from -20C to +7C.
> 
> Its not a missed weld IMO, is a intentional joint that relies on 100% weld fusion...  unfortunately that's hard with MIG at production speeds.



If it’s leaking then the weld was missed or failed. The only difference is in how bk stops it in the future. 

I can already hear panels being pulled off of the stinky 30 boxes as owners inspect for leakage. I’ll be looking at my princess tonight!


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## Ignerence (Jan 30, 2018)

Highbeam said:


> If it’s leaking then the weld was missed or failed.



touche'  100% penetration was not achieved clearly.


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## MtnBURN (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm impressed.


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## Gotrek (Jan 30, 2018)

I'll check mine when I get home  I think my side shields are in the way if I can look without removing them I'll report back

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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 30, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> Ricky'ism


Hilarious.


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## shoot-straight (Jan 30, 2018)

Not saying its a fix for everyone- but question.

I HAVE welded before, but no where near calling myself a welder- if repairs are needed, would it have to be removed, or can a pro welder who can get a portable machine close enough (maybe in through a window) do it on the hearth?


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## Highbeam (Jan 30, 2018)

shoot-straight said:


> Not saying its a fix for everyone- but question.
> 
> I HAVE welded before, but no where near calling myself a welder- if repairs are needed, would it have to be removed, or can a pro welder who can get a portable machine close enough (maybe in through a window) do it on the hearth?



Pro welders can do their thing anywhere. I’ve had them weld overhead inside a small bilge compartment inside a barge.

They have long leads on their tools so the actual welder can stay outside. Modern buzz boxes can be the size of a suitcase and are easily carried.

They have blankets to protect the hearth and floor. I would worry more about the spray paint.


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## Ashful (Jan 30, 2018)

Great info, @Ignerence.  Can we hope all of these cases are so simple?  I’ll be pulling the side panels off one of my Ashfords tonight.


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## shoot-straight (Jan 30, 2018)

ratsrepus said:


> Ok, time for Mr BKVP guy to respond. This is going to get interesting



Not necessarily. Chris is a professional, I'm sure he will address this as he does everything else on here (remarkably so). But, I don't expect him to say much till he does some of his own research on this particular fix. Not prudent to say much yet, and we shouldn't fault him in that either. Its smart and good business.


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## Highbeam (Jan 30, 2018)

shoot-straight said:


> Not necessarily. Chris is a professional, I'm sure he will address this as he does everything else on here (remarkably so). But, I don't expect him to say much till he does some of his own research on this particular fix. Not prudent to say much yet, and we shouldn't fault him in that either. Its smart and good business.



Yes and looking at a bunch of new stoves in the factory won’t tell him much. The evidence of creo leakage does not appear until it’s been used for awhile.


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## Ignerence (Jan 30, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Great info, @Ignerence.  Can we hope all of these cases are so simple?  I’ll be pulling the side panels off one of my Ashfords tonight.



I agree, in the end it was a relatively simple fix for mine.  For all I know this is a one off situation BTW.


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## Highbeam (Jan 30, 2018)

A little smear of furnace cement might be easier as a test.


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## shoot-straight (Jan 30, 2018)

Highbeam said:


> Yes and looking at a bunch of new stoves in the factory won’t tell him much. The evidence of creo leakage does not appear until it’s been used for awhile.



I would say looking at ones coming off the line AND those already in the field would be worth a look. If the weld is poor or not complete im sure they can look for leakage other ways than just looking for creosote.


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## Gotrek (Jan 30, 2018)

My weld is good. There is a very purposeful extra weld applied to the corner.  It's almost like yours was missed.

Not sure pictures will show it but...  you can see the weld plus an added spot right on the corner.


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## Calentarse (Feb 6, 2018)

Will look at this tomorrow in the daylight. Have not logged on in a while.  

One new, interesting observation I have is that there are times when the odor is minimal.  Pretty near liveable.  That’s saying something from me, someone pretty sensitive to it after all these years.  Other times, the stove is on high charring the fresh load and it’s stinking to high heaven.  I just don’t get it.  I’m thinking @aaronk25 is right, more and more all the time with his high/low draft theory.  Hoping BK is looking into this theory. 

Someone asked about wood moisture.  I have tried everything, to the point I’m burning some super dry stuff now that’s like paper and really struggles to get through the night with it.  Certainly cuts down on the typical BK burn times the wood is so dry. I’m talking around 10-12% on some smaller splits. I still get the dreaded smell.


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## MissMac (Feb 7, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people...  mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.
> 
> So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK.  Problem solved right?  nope.  While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree.  I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.
> 
> ...




This story blows my mind.


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## Marshy (Feb 7, 2018)

Maybe these stoves were made on a monday...


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## Ignerence (Feb 7, 2018)

I think its just me, I have been known to have crap luck... so I'm not surprised.    It's been great and burning 24/7 since I welded it up though.  No smell  

My second door arrived as well, No need to mess with it so I will always have a clean window/door on hand for when/if hot babes come over for wine/fire/netflix.....  haha


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## Highbeam (Feb 7, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> I think its just me, I have been known to have crap luck... so I'm not surprised.    It's been great and burning 24/7 since I welded it up though.  No smell
> 
> My second door arrived as well, No need to mess with it so I will always have a clean window/door on hand for when/if hot babes come over for wine/fire/netflix.....  haha



All the blemish stoves go to ignerence’s dealer! I lost two truck tires in the desert while towing heavy and had to buy new tires at some small shop. Pretty good price I thought. Weeks later I noticed the “blemish” stamp on the sidewalls.

I did check my princess and those external joints are all 100% welded.


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## MissMac (Feb 7, 2018)

Thoughts?


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## Gotrek (Feb 7, 2018)

MissMac said:


> Thoughts?


Looks like a cold weld (which are porous... bad)  i'd get a welder to take a look.  But we call that chicken sh%t welds.  Guy who welded that might of had Parkinson's.

And  PM BK.  He will help you out through getting it fixed so don't mess with it till you talk to.him.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## sigruts192 (Feb 7, 2018)

I had smoke smell in princess and it was replaced under warranty after 2 years of "fixes" from dealer and blaze king.

They had me convinced it was something wrong with my flue and set-up.

It was replaced under the pretense that if it happens with new stove i was SOL.

I debated installing it but would have went insane if the smoke smell returned.

I sold it - put a Woodstock IS in its place with exact same set up and havent smelled a thing since.


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## ratsrepus (Feb 7, 2018)

sigruts192 said:


> I sold it - put a Woodstock IS in its place with exact same set up and havent smelled a thing since.



Traitor, your banned from this thread. Never mind
, wrong thread


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## Mark8 (Feb 7, 2018)

MissMac said:


> Thoughts?



Yea that's about as bad as it can get when it comes to welding.  I'm curious if they are using humans or robots for their welding, let's hope BK can shed some light on this thread.


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## Gotrek (Feb 7, 2018)

Mine looks machine welded then a human came and did the corners.  

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## drz1050 (Feb 8, 2018)

Interesting development, will check my welds in the morning..


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## jetsam (Feb 8, 2018)

Packing those four chinks full of furnace cement would only take a minute, and would be a way to see if welding would be helpful.


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## shoot-straight (Feb 8, 2018)

Glad this got bumped up. Burning hard now- will check mine when i have a chance to let it cool off.


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## Ashful (Feb 8, 2018)

shoot-straight said:


> Glad this got bumped up. Burning hard now- will check mine when i have a chance to let it cool off.



Ditto.  Forgot to check mine.


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## Highbeam (Feb 8, 2018)

Note that these corner welds don’t need to be strong, they’re not structural, but just air tight. I would be less concerned about aesthetics and more concerned if I saw creosote staining or leakage.


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## moresnow (Feb 8, 2018)

Soooo. If the small weld areas are producing the smell. What about the bypass rod pass through? I have not looked closely at that but its a thought.

My corners appear to be fully welded. As well as I can see without pulling the shields... 

Should be interesting to hear from others who find that they can fix the issue with additional weld/seal.


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## ratsrepus (Feb 8, 2018)

Like to hear from BKVP on this. I think it would be appropriate.


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## tarzan (Feb 8, 2018)

Highbeam said:


> Note that these corner welds don’t need to be strong, they’re not structural, but just air tight. I would be less concerned about aesthetics and more concerned if I saw creosote staining or leakage.



Good point but normally an airtight weld will also be a decent looking weld.


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## lsucet (Feb 8, 2018)

I am A happy owner of two BK princess, but there is no excuse for something like this. This stoves are not cheap. Where is quality control here?


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## Marshy (Feb 8, 2018)

lsucet said:


> I am A happy owner of two BK princess, but there is no excuse for something like this. This stoves are not cheap. Where is quality control here?


Hold your horses now, don't get your panties all in a bunch. First, the stoves mentioned are neither a Princess model nor your property. For all we know the weld (lack there of) is specific to this model of firebox. It may not even be the cause. Unless your stove is having the issue I'd suggest taking a seat and watching out this plays out. BKVP has handled all past issues swiftly and professionally in the past. There really is no reason at this point to jump up and down about the issue considering your not even affected by it. Just my two cents.


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## lsucet (Feb 8, 2018)

Regardless if I have issues or not, have the same product or not those welds are unacceptable. You don't need to own a product or not to have a point of view and express it. I also had a burr of weld on top of flue collar. I did filed off to the adapter sit properly. Was not a biggie. But why not say something.


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## lsucet (Feb 8, 2018)

You are saying something and with all respect you don't own one anymore. You see, you feel you have a saying either way.


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## begreen (Feb 8, 2018)

There's no point in speculating the cause. It could be machine programmed welds can't hit the corner edges and a manual weld is required there. I certainly don't know. The weld area on some of these stoves is ugly and could be related to the smoke smell issue plaguing several owner. It would be helpful for owners having this issue to finger trowel some furnace cement into the suspect area and see if this makes an immediate improvement. If so, that's good data for Blaze King and a quick temporary fix. I'm sure no one wants this problem solved more than BKVP. Be patient and provide good test input.


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## Gotrek (Feb 8, 2018)

I adjusted my door and that fixed me just wanted to report.  But those welds might very well be the others issue.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Woody Stover (Feb 8, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> BK welds the entire side plate perimeter, and the front and rear plates top (external) and bottom (internal).   This leave the back side of the front and rear plates un-welded for about 1"....Sure its only the fit up gap but clearly from the creosote in all 4 top corners of my stove shows this. The green line is where I welded to fix my smoke smell issue..ran her with ZERO smell , then, the next morning, I ran a full load on high for 3-4 hrs..... zero smell.   I then climbed up on the roof, and removed the 4' of extra class A I put on (looks so stupid sticking out of my roof 8') and ran the stove on high and low.... Zero smell.
> I'm back to only ~15.5' total chimney, I put the screens back on my chimney cap, I've ran it a week high and low..... with absolutely zero odor..... check these corners for any creosote.


Well, maybe your "Ignerence" level is not as high as you would have us believe. 


moresnow said:


> If the small weld areas are producing the smell. What about the bypass rod pass through? I have not looked closely at that but its a thought.


Yeah, there are other areas that are not sealed, but maybe it depends on where these are in the box, weather smoke can escape there or not.


begreen said:


> There's no point in speculating the cause...It would be helpful for owners having this issue to finger trowel some furnace cement into the suspect area and see if this makes an immediate improvement


Hey, we on the forums here _specialize_ in speculation.  But yeah, Highbeam earlier mentioned furnace cement as a quick way to test. May not seal well or last too long, but maybe would be good enough for a test..
If the welds were indeed the cause, you'da thought the BK techs would have tracked it down by now. Don't they have fancy smoke-sniffer equipment and what-not?


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## green pacific (Feb 8, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.
> 
> I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.
> 
> ...



Hello Calentarse, I have a BK Ashford 30 and had this problem just once -- I assume that as you don't like the smell, this is the acrid smell from the cat and not the sweeter woodsmoke smell from the stove itself? -- Luckily mine self-corrected and as it did, I had the sense that something fell back into place inside; that perhaps a big load had pushed something up [the thermometer?] that normally was down, and when "down" effectively sealed the stove. My leak wasn't as specific, or wasn't around long enough for me to get a bead on where it was coming from. That day, I was sitting to the right of the stove (and had to stay where I was for two hours ...) and my door is hinged on the right. I really hope you find a solution. I was wondering what on earth I would do if my situation didn't resolve! I love and adore my BK Ash-30 stove like a family pet but there are limits (for stoves, anyway) to loyalty and that was one terrible smell! Give me clean, fresh woodsmoke any day (no, don't, but ....)


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## BKVP (Feb 8, 2018)

All,

I will be contacting each of the 8 cases we know of in the next few days.  I have been in the wilds of Wyoming and just got into decent service.  I will address through pm's to all 8 owners.  Ignerence, I will also be in contact with you.

Chris


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## Mark8 (Feb 8, 2018)




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## Woody Stover (Feb 8, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> [ATTACH


Are they after Monty Burns in that one?


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## jetsam (Feb 8, 2018)

The odd part is that 3 different people have completely fixed their issue 3 different ways (door gasket, flue damper, welding).


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## Mark8 (Feb 9, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> Are they after Monty Burns in that one?



Yeah I think they were after Burns in that one, but they now set their sites on BKVP, they are a unruly mob.
 The smoke smell has gotten to them


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## Woody Stover (Feb 9, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> they are a unruly mob.


Although they may not have pitchforks, quite a few process their own wood and have many other implements of destruction close at hand.


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## Gotrek (Feb 9, 2018)

Mines good so take me off the list if I'm on it 

  Also measured my draft yesterday(with crappy digital manomoeter) I'm at 0.09"h20 while burning on  high(Not sure the +/- error ratio on this meter).

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## BKVP (Feb 9, 2018)

Gotrek said:


> Mines good so take me off the list if I'm on it
> 
> Also measured my draft yesterday(with crappy digital manomoeter) I'm at 0.09"h20 while burning on  high(Not sure the +/- error ratio on this meter).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Thank you.  There are a couple others that were remedied already, so I will contact those few remaining shortly.


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## Mark8 (Feb 9, 2018)

@BKVP As a person in the market for a new insert or freestanding stove I had BK at the top of my list and really liked the looks of the Ashford 30, I have been following this thread as many others to find out the smoke smell problem.  I really am kind of turned off by how this matter is being handled privately and keeping us in the dark.

I hope you will be sharing your findings with us so we can all be informed buyers.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 9, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I hope you will be sharing your findings with us so we can all be informed buyers.


I was just wondering to myself how many of those that had a problem would report back and relate "the _rest_ of the story..."


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## jetsam (Feb 9, 2018)

It sounds like different people had different issues to me. Why would a new door gasket fix a missed weld? 

A universal fix/announcement may not be forthcoming because not everyone has the same problem.

I agree that an announcement of a newly discovered issue (like 'we found out that one production run had welding issues') would be of value, but discussing individuals' one-off problems should probably be left to the discretion of those individuals.


If history is any indicator, BKVP will take care of everyone who reports the issue.  If you doubt it, search for threads about people who are pissed off that BK wouldn't help them (excluding people doing stuff that the manual clearly prohibits, such as burning a King on a 6" flue).  They're rare birds because nobody wrote them, because their stove issues all got taken care of one way or the other.


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## MissMac (Feb 9, 2018)

I emailed the pic that I posted on this thread to the tech at Blaze King in Canada - he tells me that there is a complete weld on the inside of the firebox as well, and that a short weld on the outside of the box is done to back-up the corner.  So this is what I can add to the convo at this point.


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## BKVP (Feb 9, 2018)

Back on earth.  Jetsam, you are correct.  Thus far, a few things have helped.  Adding chimney, adding insulation to liners, door/gasket adjustments etc.

None of the 8 units were part of the same run.  And please, please keep in mind we have made thousands of these units.  There is certainly no excuse for any imperfection in our products, but it can happen.

What we do however is take care of the customer.  I'll be working tomorrow to help sort out a few more and shortly we should have these very few (one is too much) issues resolved.  Can it transpire again, yes.  Most issues were addressed early on with a few improvements to the venting.   The last few, who have tried venting additions, will continue to be supported to satisfaction.

Thank you,
Chris


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## Sailrmike (Feb 10, 2018)

Ignerence said:


> Well, I have been reluctant to post my fix as I'm sure it won't impress a few people...  mine was pretty cut and dry once I found the issue.
> 
> So, my first sirocco 30.1 had a blatant missed weld that immediately caused leaking creosote and was replaced by BK.  Problem solved right?  nope.  While the odor was less apparent on the second stove it was still present to some degree.  I assumed this must be wood burning and I felt bad already so "live with it" or don't burn is what I thought.
> 
> ...


@BKVP does doing welding work on a stove void it's warranty?  I'm also curious about the UL listing in situations where a stove has to be repaired with welds or other invasive means


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## BKVP (Feb 10, 2018)

Certainly we prefer that customers need not have to work on their investments they made with our company.  Our warranty is spelled out and we stand by repair or replace.  We also want all purchasers to be satisfied!

Today, I have reached out to the 7 remaining cases of smoke smell with AF30's and look forward to their satisfaction very soon.

Have a great weekend all, I'm leaving on another road trip!

BKVP


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## Mark8 (Feb 10, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.
> 
> I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.
> 
> ...



I hope you are going to let us all know if BK has contacted you and how they resolved your issue, we all need to hear both sides of this story.  Especially the stove owners version.


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## BKVP (Feb 10, 2018)

There are no sides here.  Only the customers satisfaction counts.  We have been in contact all along trying to resolve these isolated issues.  Unfortunately it does not appear there is a common thread, no pun intended.  But we will get them handled.


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## Calentarse (Feb 10, 2018)

Mark8 said:


> I hope you are going to let us all know if BK has contacted you and how they resolved your issue, we all need to hear both sides of this story.  Especially the stove owners version.


BKVP reached out today and is coordinating with my dealer to come install a thicker gasket.  I’m really hoping this will solve my issue and will continue to work with BKVP to find a solution if it does not.  I will try to keep everyone updated.

I stand corrected about my wood moisture. I used my moisture meter on my 5 year old red oak the other night and it was consistently 15.2-15.4%. Dry enough to eliminate this as a possible cause, right?


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## tarzan (Feb 10, 2018)

BKVP said:


> There are no sides here.  Only the customers satisfaction counts.  We have been in contact all along trying to resolve these isolated issues.  Unfortunately it does not appear there is a common thread, no pun intended.  But we will get them handled.



Buttwhackers?


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## BKVP (Feb 10, 2018)

Good eye!  Halibut fillet company..

They do great work.  In Homer AK.


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## coutufr (Feb 11, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> BKVP reached out today and is coordinating with my dealer to come install a thicker gasket.  I’m really hoping this will solve my issue and will continue to work with BKVP to find a solution if it does not.  I will try to keep everyone updated.
> 
> I stand corrected about my wood moisture. I used my moisture meter on my 5 year old red oak the other night and it was consistently 15.2-15.4%. Dry enough to eliminate this as a possible cause, right?



If you can find out this thicker gasket characteristics maybe we could order it from the manufacturer. This is the kind of modification that if it works I would like to try doing this summer.


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## BKVP (Feb 26, 2018)

I just wanted to update this post.  In regards to Ashford 30 models, we sent all 8 folks a kit of items to update the door gasket.  This gasket is larger in diameter and more dense.  It works only on the AF30 because the face of the stove (to which the door is attached) is adjustable.

A few of the 8 have updated their reports in other threads that the smoke smell is either entirely gone or 99% gone.

To these 8 folks, thank you very much for your patience.  We are not certain why these limited number of units had an issue, but we are glad they are improved.  Once each of the 8 has their update installed, we hope this will bring a level of satisfaction to all.....


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## AlbergSteve (Feb 26, 2018)

In the disposable economy we now live in, companies are happy to take to take your money, get you out the door, and don't care if they see you again. Quality control, customer service, virtually non-existent - and it doesn't seem to matter if you pay $500 for that white refrigerator or $10k for the built-in one. If a company does step up, it's usually because you've spent a good portion of your life haranguing them on the phone for hours, or sending dozens of emails.
 Hats off to Chris @BKVP , and Dennis at BK Penticton, for stepping up, immediately and without question. It's exactly what customer service should be, many thanks to both of you.


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## Ashful (Feb 26, 2018)

AlbergSteve said:


> Hats of to Chris @BKVP , and Dennis at BK Penticton, for stepping up, immediately and without question. It's exactly what customer service should be, many thanks to both of you.


I’m glad you said something.  It means less, coming from an accused BK fanboy like me, but Chris has gone out of his way to support me with the one issue I’ve had with my BK’s.  That’s even when the issue is admittedly self-inflicted, by me violating their installation specifications.

I will say that I was not always a fan of BK, before I owned one, but they’ve won me over.  I can’t see myself buying another stove from any other company, in the foreseeable future.


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## AlbergSteve (Feb 27, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I’m glad you said something.  It means less, coming from an accused BK fanboy like me, but Chris has gone out of his way to support me with the one issue I’ve had with my BK’s.  That’s even when the issue is admittedly self-inflicted, by me violating their installation specifications.
> 
> I will say that I was not always a fan of BK, before I owned one, but they’ve won me over.  I can’t see myself buying another stove from any other company, in the foreseeable future.


We were reluctant at first as well. My only touchstone with a cat stove was circa 1984, family member had one. I've run a few EPA stoves over the years, and a smoke dragon as well. As appliances in your home go, they're pretty easy to use, no electronics or mechanical parts to fail, just stuff it full of wood -repeat every 4-8 hours.
When we had our issue with the leaky gasket, I did a lot of trouble shooting of my own. I pm'd Chris and he got back to me the next day and I had responses sometimes late at night when most of us would have been in bed, or pm's back within minutes of sending one. I'm  not sure he wasn't pm'ing from a deer blind or the back of a boat when he should have been enjoying his day off ! 

Same thing with Dennis at BK Penticton. No telephone tag, no waiting for a call back -  front office put me right through to Dennis and we had a great, productive, 20 minute trouble shooting session on the phone. Gasket was courriered out the next day - problem solved. 

After 35+ years of buying cars and appliances and dealing/fighting with companies to get warranty work done, the response from BK was a pleasant surprise. Again, it's what outstanding customer service should look like.


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## coutufr (Feb 27, 2018)

I just asked our BK rep in Quebec to get more informations about the gasket upgrade. Next week he said he has a meeting with Chris and this will be on the meeting agenda.

I sincerely thank you Chris for your leadership and professionalism!


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 27, 2018)

And just as I thought things were getting quiet and stale on this forum.....


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## Calentarse (Feb 28, 2018)

I'm anxiously waiting for my dealer to come on Thursday to install the new gasket.  Once the glue dries I'll be firing it up with some super dry wood to see what's what.  I'll be back hopefully reporting the good news!


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## Rickb (Feb 28, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> I'm anxiously waiting for my dealer to come on Thursday to install the new gasket.  Once the glue dries I'll be firing it up with some super dry wood to see what's what.  I'll be back hopefully reporting the good news!



Good luck!  I hope it solves your issues.  I have had very few small issues with mine and BK has taken care of them with out me even asking them too.  I bought the stove for 2 reasons.  1. they had good reviews and I have it in a smaller room and was worried about it cooking me out.  2.  Seeing BK on this site working with customers and doing what ever it took to make it work sold me.

Not a BK fanboy but I have stayed at a holiday inn.


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## Calentarse (Mar 2, 2018)

I am happy to report that the denser gasket has resolved my issues. I am getting no smoke smell at all. 

A huge shout out goes to @BKVP for his help and attention to this matter.  I am one happy customer today!


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## begreen (Mar 2, 2018)

Yay! That has to be a huge relief for you.


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## Woody Stover (Mar 5, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> huge shout out goes to @BKVP for his help and attention to this matter.


Did he thank you for beta-testing the stove and saving the company all the money they might have spent on R & D?  
Seriously, glad you got it fixed. No one should have to live with smoke in the house.


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## Ashful (Mar 5, 2018)

Woohoo!  I was really hoping this one would get resolved.  You’ve been thru the long slog, here.


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## Calentarse (Mar 5, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Woohoo!  I was really hoping this one would get resolved.  You’ve been thru the long slog, here.


Yes, yes I have. Grateful to finally be smoke free and still get to own a Blaze King!


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## moresnow (Mar 6, 2018)

Very nice! Hope they get a setup for the 20 series soon.


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## burninwood (Mar 19, 2018)

Thought I would post an update on the smoke smell with my Sirocco 30.1.

I received a 1 inch, more dense gasket from BK Canada back in January. I installed and it certainly helped, however, I will get the occasional whiff from time to time.

I'm wondering if you all received the 1 inch gasket or the standard 7/8 size? The1 inch was so big I had the door latch adjusted to hardly any thread left on the retaining nut...which i was able to eventually cinch up as the gasket broke in. A bit scary for the first couple fires...

Where did you guys place the seam? I put mine bottom, about 3 inches towards center from handle side as per BK to rule out any escape from hinge side.

Cheers


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## AlbergSteve (Mar 19, 2018)

burninwood said:


> Thought I would post an update on the smoke smell with my Sirocco 30.1.
> 
> I received a 1 inch, more dense gasket from BK Canada back in January. I installed and it certainly helped, however, I will get the occasional whiff from time to time.
> 
> ...


I put mine above the latch where there's less build-up on the glass and made sure I offset the inner and outer braid.


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## yooper08 (Mar 20, 2018)

I remember the old thread and have read this one from time to time.  Glad it's fixed!

Time and again BKVP wins the hearts and minds of the forum.  BK will be at the top of my search list when it comes time to shop around.


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## Cast Iron (Mar 25, 2018)

What a lovefest ! Will someone please get this BKVP a drink ?
If and when we finally buy the "new and improved" VC Flexburn, maybe the HHT/VC company will take a look at BK's response and service. Anyone listening ? 
You too Jotul, PE, etc........... Not you at Woodstock.


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## coutufr (Mar 25, 2018)

I sent a drawing of my wood stove setup to the Rep in Quebec. They will get back to me with a solution hopefully in the next couple of weeks


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## tarzan (Mar 25, 2018)

Cast Iron said:


> Will someone please get this BKVP a drink ?.



Actually, if he's going to be in town, he offers to buy for anyone interested!


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## Newburnerwisconsin (Mar 25, 2018)

BKVP said:


> I just wanted to update this post.  In regards to Ashford 30 models, we sent all 8 folks a kit of items to update the door gasket.  This gasket is larger in diameter and more dense.  It works only on the AF30 because the face of the stove (to which the door is attached) is adjustable.
> 
> A few of the 8 have updated their reports in other threads that the smoke smell is either entirely gone or 99% gone.
> 
> To these 8 folks, thank you very much for your patience.  We are not certain why these limited number of units had an issue, but we are glad they are improved.  Once each of the 8 has their update installed, we hope this will bring a level of satisfaction to all.....


I have been watching this thread. I was on the fence for a Ashford 30, but not anymore. You just sold the stove and Blaze King brand to me.   I am very impressed with you and Blaze King. The way you and Blaze King treated this customer is just awesome. I will be ordering a Ashford 30 soon. That's the way to treat customers. Great work!


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## coutufr (Mar 25, 2018)

It is an amazing wood stove!


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## BKVP (Mar 25, 2018)

Newburnerwisconsin said:


> I have been watching this thread. I was on the fence for a Ashford 30, but not anymore. You just sold the stove and Blaze King brand to me.   I am very impressed with you and Blaze King. The way you and Blaze King treated this customer is just awesome. I will be ordering a Ashford 30 soon. That's the way to treat customers. Great work!


Thank you....


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## BKVP (Mar 25, 2018)

tarzan said:


> Actually, if he's going to be in town, he offers to buy for anyone interested!


Leaving Fairbanks Monday...off to KOP PA next week....


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## Ashful (Mar 26, 2018)

BKVP said:


> Leaving Fairbanks Monday...off to KOP PA next week....



Welcome to the ‘hood.


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## liquidskin (Oct 8, 2018)

Bumping this thread. Got my Ashford 30 installed today. Little susprised by the manufactured date of March 2015. Anything I should be concerned about from the units that were produced around this time?


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## AlbergSteve (Oct 8, 2018)

liquidskin said:


> Bumping this thread. Got my Ashford 30 installed today. Little susprised by the manufactured date of March 2015. Anything I should be concerned about from the units that were produced around this time?


The ash plug may not line up with the ash drawer.


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## webby3650 (Oct 8, 2018)

liquidskin said:


> Bumping this thread. Got my Ashford 30 installed today. Little susprised by the manufactured date of March 2015. Anything I should be concerned about from the units that were produced around this time?


That’s not uncommon at all. Stoves get shipped from a distributors warehouse to a retailers warehouse, sometimes certain stoves move a little slower.
There was a very small production run a few years back that had some misalignment with the ash pan, just make sure the plug is over the pan.


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## liquidskin (Oct 9, 2018)

webby3650 said:


> That’s not uncommon at all. Stoves get shipped from a distributors warehouse to a retailers warehouse, sometimes certain stoves move a little slower.
> There was a very small production run a few years back that had some misalignment with the ash pan, just make sure the plug is over the pan.



Thanks, I’ll check that. In terms of the smoke issue that some folks had, should I be checking any potential problematic welds or something else?


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## Ashful (Oct 9, 2018)

liquidskin said:


> Thanks, I’ll check that. In terms of the smoke issue that some folks had, should I be checking any potential problematic welds or something else?


My memory is not perfect, but I believe there was only ever one of those cases attributed to a bad weld.  If I recall, there were 10-12 cases, and each was resolved differently.  The most common fix, if one could be called out, was a high-density door gasket.

Run it, and if you’re like 99% of us, you’ll never have an issue.  On the off chance you do, contact BKVP, and he’ll get you sorted out.

2015 was the date of my Ashford 30.1’s, and they had the ash plug issue.  There is a fix, which involves swapping the pan tray for one with longer slides, if your stove has the plug issue and you want it resolved.  Pull the plug and look down into the pan.  If the back edge of the hole is right on the back edge of the pan, then it will spill some hot coals on the floor when you try to empty ashes using the pan.  The longer slide drawer moves the pan back about 2 inches, so that the plug is almost centered over the pan.


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## liquidskin (Oct 31, 2018)

_Wow, this post got really long. Just a positive rant about my BK experience so far - enjoy it if you're into that kind of thing!_


I just wanted to post a followup now that I've gotten the chance to burn with the Ashford 30 a bit since we've had some colder weather in NJ past week or so. It's warmed up, so I've let the stove go cold after about a week of letting it cruise low.

Before I get into the details, some history may be helpful. I discovered this forum when I moved into my house 4 years ago. The house had a Blaze King princess insert in the downstairs room. This forum was very helpful for learning how to properly use the stove. Over the years I changed the cat, the gasket and was overall quite pleased with the performance. Only problem (at no fault of the BK) is the downstairs room is not the main living space. The BK insert served to heat our guest bedroom up nicely, but that warm air never really made a huge difference upstairs, so I tended to use the old 1970's earth stove to heat the main living room and upstairs bedrooms. That old stove sure did heat the room up quickly, but overnight burns were barely achievable and I would have to feed the stove so much wood that it really did feel like a chore. I did it, because i love burning and using my oil furnace as little as possible. However, I work a full time job 50 miles away from home and my wife does the same. It simply wasn't realistic to start a fire at 6am before leaving for work and return 6pm at night to start another. The furance would kick on before we got home to get the place to a decent temperature, I'd come home and start a fire and the cycle would continue. Weekends were better because I could constantly feed the old Earth stove.

Fast forward to August 2018 I got a new job after a year of pounding the pavement. In the hottest month I decided my treat would be a new wood stove for the upstairs living room. I knew it had to be BK. Not only was I satisfied with my princess insert, but the enthusiasm on this forum that I've read over the years had to mean something. I was confident that the stoves were the best and I wanted another one. I reached out to the local dealer, got a quote for a BK King. The dealer came to scope out my space and said the King would be way too big, and to come to the shop and look over some other options. I went and checked out the Ashford, Sirocco, but the dealer was steering me towards Jotul; a brand of stove I really knew nothing about. The showroom was clearly a bit more Jotul-focused, and from what I gather they are quality stoves, but I was sticking to my guns, it had to be a BK. We landed on the Ashford 30 and it was installed in October, having its first fire not long after.

I've known the BK reputation - heck, I even had one and have been happy with it. That said, I haven't really "gotten it" till now. Me, with my work schedule that has me away from the house 12 hours a day, managed to keep the stove Active for about 4 days, maintaining a perfect 70 degree temp in the living room and 60s in the bedrooms. 24 hour burns every time. I really couldn't believe it. Getting home from work to a warm home and seeing that cat thermometer still Active just made my day.

It's still shoulder season and I'll learn more about the stove as the weather gets colder, but I'm just over the moon with my experience so far. I'm so happy I didn't get swayed to another brand of stove. I'm officially a believer - I "get it" now. I'm drinking the BK Kool-Aid with you all now. Thanks for making room for me in the club!


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## BlazeKingSaddles (Nov 18, 2018)

I had my Ashford 30 installed December 2017. Straight 32’ chimney with 2/3 of it indoors and approx 9 feet outside (a couple feet in corner of attic crawl space) great draft. Class A double wall pipe with no OAK. Did my research and worked with the only Blaze King accredited dealer in my area. I put about 3 cords of seasoned wood <=20% MC through it, essentially burned one continuous fire throughout the winter (NorthEast). Stove sits in a 2 story room in a relatively new house and I have “THE SMELL”. I ignored it for the most part last year, but decided to inquire and discovered that this is a common issue with BK. I contacted them as well as the installer and just last week had the larger door gasket installed. Sadly, it doesn’t really seem to make a difference. Sort of out of ideas. One question that I don’t believe that has been brought up is whether or not the smoldering creosote/smoke smell is hazardous. I’ve got some young lungs in the house.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 18, 2018)

BlazeKingSaddles said:


> Straight 32’ chimney with 2/3 of it indoors and approx 9 feet outside (a couple feet in corner of attic crawl space) great draft.


Hard to believe any stench could be exiting the stove with that much draft.


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## Marshy (Nov 18, 2018)

I wonder if burning the stove on max output for an entire load wouldnt help by burning off the residue in the firebox that might be causing the issue.


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## begreen (Nov 18, 2018)

BlazeKingSaddles said:


> I had my Ashford 30 installed December 2017. Straight 32’ chimney with 2/3 of it indoors and approx 9 feet outside (a couple feet in corner of attic crawl space) great draft. Class A double wall pipe with no OAK. Did my research and worked with the only Blaze King accredited dealer in my area. I put about 3 cords of seasoned wood <=20% MC through it, essentially burned one continuous fire throughout the winter (NorthEast). Stove sits in a 2 story room in a relatively new house and I have “THE SMELL”. I ignored it for the most part last year, but decided to inquire and discovered that this is a common issue with BK. I contacted them as well as the installer and just last week had the larger door gasket installed. Sadly, it doesn’t really seem to make a difference. Sort of out of ideas. One question that I don’t believe that has been brought up is whether or not the smoldering creosote/smoke smell is hazardous. I’ve got some young lungs in the house.


That's a bummer. Have you been able to pinpoint where the smell is coming from?


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## lsucet (Nov 18, 2018)

If I remember correctly, a member here with tall chimney was having the same issues due to too much draft. And when burning low is like the excess of draf pull the intake air to quick. I think he installed a key damper and that took care the issue. Maybe somebody else remember more the details or the member that had the issue.


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

lsucet said:


> If I remember correctly, a member here with tall chimney was having the same issues due to too much draft. And when burning low is like the excess of draf pull the intake air to quick. I think he installed a key damper and that took care the issue. Maybe somebody else remember more the details or the member that had the issue.



I don’t remember that one, but I can say that 32’ indoor chimney probably pulls over 0.20”WC with stove on high and bypass closed.  BK specs 0.06”WC maximum, but for reasons other than smoke smell.

The smell definitely seems to be related to air velocity across inside of door, a localized positive pressure due to flow from the air wash.  So, I guess it’s conceivable that very high draft = smoke smell, but it’s counterintuitive.


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## coutufr (Nov 19, 2018)

I feel your pain. The new gasket made mine almost smell free but I now believe that dryer wood helps with the problem as well. If it is feasible for you, bring in some wood and let it sit at least 1 week not too far from the stove. When you burn it, check if it decreases the smell or not. Also don’t close the air too much for the first 2 hours of the burn unless it is cold outside . Like around 3 o’clock not full throttle. I don’t have any proof that this could really help but it is what I have tried and learned so far from my experience with this stove. The smell in my case was relatively faint and now I consider it 90% solved so there is hope. In terms of toxicity I asked myself the same question. I don’t know the intensity of it in your case but in my case I think cooking and eating meat cooked on a charcoal bbq to be much more toxic .


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## Woody Stover (Nov 19, 2018)

lsucet said:


> If I remember correctly, a member here with tall chimney was having the same issues due to too much draft. And when burning low is like the excess of draf pull the intake air to quick. I think he installed a key damper and that took care the issue. Maybe somebody else remember more the details or the member that had the issue.


Right, he put forth a well-reasoned theory that turbulence in the box from high draft may have caused smoke to escape...now who the heck _was_ that?? Someone who's not a real prolific poster, that I remember..


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> Right, he put forth a well-reasoned theory that turbulence in the box from high draft may have caused smoke to escape...now who the heck _was_ that?? Someone who's not a real prolific poster, that I remember..



@aaronk25


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## Ryan723 (Nov 19, 2018)

Hi all,

Don't mean to muddy the waters here, but another datapoint and suggestion:

On my 4+ year old Ashford 30, I was noticing a little bit of a smokey smell near the door....literally only detectable when i put my nose near the door/convection deck.  But it was there most times if i tried to find it.  I keep the air circulating pretty vigorously near the stove, so it gets dispersed before it becomes noticeable at any distance from the stove.  Original door seal is still in decent condition, but i do keep up with tightening the latch.

I just put my new FireCat steel combustor in last night and when i saw this thread pop up, i've been sniffing around the stove this morning.  

I don't get any smell at the moment.  So, maybe too soon to say for sure, because I know this is intermittent for some folks and I haven't been trying long enough to say definitively.  But it is less than it was last week on my stove.  

AND, when i took my old cat out, it had a good bit of fly ash on it. It also had some fly ash or other deposits on the back, which i thought was a bit odd.  The cells were mostly clear, but comparing with the new cat, it was definitely partially occluded in some of the cells.  

Also interesting is that the fly ash wasn't evenly distributed.

So, if you're getting the smoke smell but your draft is otherwise fine, before doing a lot of other stuff, its worth a cat gasket to pull it out, check it real well, vacuum any fly ash you can.  It is sure easier than a door gasket!

So, other than just loss of draft from lower-flowing cat causing smoke to pile up against the door a little more than it should, i wonder if uneven fly ask could cause weird circulation/turbulence that might also contribute?

Anyways, just some thoughts....


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

Here’s one just for the Ashford 30 crowd, how do you perform or judge the result of your dollar bill tests, with the door casting inset into the surrounding casting?  Mine feels good, but I’m not sure how much of the resistance I feel is due to gasket vs casting overlap.  My latch force is definitely a lot lower on one stove than the other, and they’re both way lower than they were when new, but both stoves still prevent me from pulling a dollar thru interface between door and stove body.


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## Gotrek (Nov 19, 2018)

I dont think the dollar bill test works good on a knife edge door. 

 I just look for a good indentation in the gasket and re-fluff the gasket if i think it needs it by gently pulling it back to its rounded shape with pliers.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## sw18x (Nov 19, 2018)

BKVP, I just invited you to a conversation, wasn't sure how the PM works on this site, I have a smoke concern.


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## Ryan723 (Nov 19, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Here’s one just for the Ashford 30 crowd, how do you perform or judge the result of your dollar bill tests, with the door casting inset into the surrounding casting?






Gotrek said:


> I dont think the dollar bill test works good on a knife edge door.  I just look for a good indentation in the gasket and re-fluff the gasket if i think it needs it ...




I'm generally in agreement here.  I use the dollar bill test (close the door on a bill and pull/wiggle) to get an idea of overall door tension and make sure there isn't substantially 'looser' pressure on one edge than another.  But at least on the Ashford's knife-edge door seal, I don't really see it as a 'pass' vs 'fail' test....unless you had a VERY loose seal.

I try not to do hot-stove reloads, but I've also noticed that at least on my Ashford, the tension of the latch seems a LOT tighter when the stove is 'hot' vs when 'warm'.  It isn't difficult to latch when hot, but the tension difference is well more than noticeable when latching and unlatching.  For this reason, I try to keep it so it feels 'snug', but not overly tight, as I believe it tightens a little more when hot.

I don't know if that is a quirk of my stove or how most Ashfords respond when hotter.


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## Gotrek (Nov 19, 2018)

Mine is the opposite.  There is less tension when hot...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Calentarse (Nov 19, 2018)

lsucet said:


> If I remember correctly, a member here with tall chimney was having the same issues due to too much draft. And when burning low is like the excess of draf pull the intake air to quick. I think he installed a key damper and that took care the issue. Maybe somebody else remember more the details or the member that had the issue.


I remember this one. He was a west coast guy, California I think. He had a brown enamel Ashford. He and I were having the same issue at the same time. 

For what it's worth, the high density gasket gave me improvement. It isn't completely gone, but it is def. tolerable now. I can also now vouch for having a smell in high draft situations. I think I posted about it once already before, but just wanted to also comment again since someone said it recently.


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## Gotrek (Nov 19, 2018)

When I had the smell i actually liked it 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## ratsrepus (Nov 19, 2018)

Gotrek said:


> When I had the smell i actually liked it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk




Used to feel that way about my old girlfriend


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## lsucet (Nov 19, 2018)

I know he said no oak. will be good to know if the condition is when fans are on of off.


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## AlbergSteve (Nov 19, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Here’s one just for the Ashford 30 crowd, how do you perform or judge the result of your dollar bill tests, with the door casting inset into the surrounding casting?  Mine feels good, but I’m not sure how much of the resistance I feel is due to gasket vs casting overlap.  My latch force is definitely a lot lower on one stove than the other, and they’re both way lower than they were when new, but both stoves still prevent me from pulling a dollar thru interface between door and stove body.


I did mine cold and removed the top and sides, not ideal but helped straighten the path a bit.


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## BlazeKingSaddles (Nov 19, 2018)

begreen said:


> That's a bummer. Have you been able to pinpoint where the smell is coming from?


Yes, front left if you’re facing the stove. Towards the top. The installer removed the top & sides and no pinholes in the welding.


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## BlazeKingSaddles (Nov 19, 2018)

Ashful said:


> Here’s one just for the Ashford 30 crowd, how do you perform or judge the result of your dollar bill tests, with the door casting inset into the surrounding casting?  Mine feels good, but I’m not sure how much of the resistance I feel is due to gasket vs casting overlap.  My latch force is definitely a lot lower on one stove than the other, and they’re both way lower than they were when new, but both stoves still prevent me from pulling a dollar thru interface between door and stove body.


Prior to having the new “gasket kit”—the one that’s supposed to remedy the smoke smell issue—installed, my door did NOT pass the dollar bill test on the latch (right) side. It was tight on the top & bottom, however.


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## wooduser (Nov 19, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Some of you may remember I had trouble with my old Ashford and spent quite a bit of time and money getting a better draft, changing bolts under the gasket, trying different gaskets, etc. to try to get rid of the smell. Well, I now have a new Ashford in my new home and have the same issue, this time, draft is NOT the issue.
> 
> I think I have it at least narrowed down to the hinge on the door. I have read that other BK owners also complain of the smell coming from the left front. With the top off, I can really isolate exactly where it’s emitting from laterally and it’s different than with the top on, obviously. As it rises up, it gets pulled in whatever direction and can lead us to believe its coming from elsewhere. With the top off, it’s right over the hinge and nowhere else. As the fire burns back and away from that area, the smell goes away.
> 
> ...


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## wooduser (Nov 19, 2018)

Generally speaking,  I would expect that a wood stove with the door closed would be at a negative pressure with respect to the air the stove is sitting in.  So any leak would draw air into the stove,  and prevent combustion gasses inside the stove from getting out.

So I would expect a negative pressure in the stove and no leaking.  An odor from the stove into the surrounding air suggest a positive pressure  inside the stove.


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

wooduser said:


> Generally speaking,  I would expect that a wood stove with the door closed would be at a negative pressure with respect to the air the stove is sitting in.  So any leak would draw air into the stove,  and prevent combustion gasses inside the stove from getting out.
> 
> So I would expect a negative pressure in the stove and no leaking.  An odor from the stove into the surrounding air suggest a positive pressure  inside the stove.



You have a good handle on the static pressure situation, but surprising things can happen when it’s all put into motion.  Think of a Venturi vacuum pump, and how it can create vacuum from the application of positive air pressure.  It has been theorized that the air wash system, which is more effective or aggressive in the Ashford than in the Princess or King, might provide a localized high pressure at the door gasket.

This seems unlikely, given the large open volume of the firebox, but so far it is the theory that’s hardest to refute in my mind.


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## pernox (Nov 19, 2018)

As an unabashed Woodstock fanboy, I can say that after reading all nine pages of this thread and seeing how Blaze King takes care of their customers, I would run a BK in a cocaine heartbeat. No company has ever released only perfect products - what separates the men from the boys is how they step up to make things right when they start off wrong.


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## Ryan723 (Nov 19, 2018)

pernox said:


> ...after reading all nine pages of this thread and seeing how Blaze King takes care of their customers, I would run a BK in a cocaine heartbeat...



Reading similar threads on here a few years ago is EXACTLY the reason I have a BK heating the house right now. I know there are other good stoves out there, but between the user support, company support (nothing like getting actual answers from the company on a public forum!), and the burn times, I was sold!


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## Ashful (Nov 19, 2018)

pernox said:


> As an unabashed Woodstock fanboy, I can say that after reading all nine pages of this thread and seeing how Blaze King takes care of their customers, I would run a BK in a cocaine heartbeat. No company has ever released only perfect products - what separates the men from the boys is how they step up to make things right when they start off wrong.


This is exactly why I'm also a big fan of Woodstock.  Both of these companies are at the top of the heap, in terms of technology, product quality, and customer support.


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## wooduser (Nov 20, 2018)

Ashful said:


> You have a good handle on the static pressure situation, but surprising things can happen when it’s all put into motion.  Think of a Venturi vacuum pump, and how it can create vacuum from the application of positive air pressure.  It has been theorized that the air wash system, which is more effective or aggressive in the Ashford than in the Princess or King, might provide a localized high pressure at the door gasket.
> 
> This seems unlikely, given the large open volume of the firebox, but so far it is the theory that’s hardest to refute in my mind.





Interesting idea.  Can you plug off the airwash system temporarily to see if that makes a difference?


A second possibility might be to use an electronic gas detector,  designed to find gas leaks ----I used these for years to locate natural gas leakage and they are VERY sensitive.  They also are sensitive to a wide variety of other combustible gasses.

I'd be inclined to try that kind of gas detector around the window of the stove,  and other parts of the stove to find a buzzing noise indicating the presence of a combustible gas.  You might find your leakage from the combustion chamber that way.


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## aaronk25 (Nov 20, 2018)

Hi all that was me with the high draft smoke smell issue.   My theory was that the excess draft was creating a larger pressure differential at the air wash angle.  Instead of the air rolling down the glass nicely, creating s boundary between the smoke and glass the air was being pulled directly off the wedge back to the cat, due to the higher then normal vacuum created by the flu.

Another contributing factor may be that when laminar flow air is pulled away it can get very turbulent pounding against then glass pushing smoke out past the gasket.


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## Calentarse (Nov 20, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Hi all that was me with the high draft smoke smell issue.   My theory was that the excess draft was creating a larger pressure differential at the air wash angle.  Instead of the air rolling down the glass nicely, creating s boundary between the smoke and glass the air was being pulled directly off the wedge back to the cat, due to the higher then normal vacuum created by the flu.
> 
> Another contributing factor may be that when laminar flow air is pulled away it can get very turbulent pounding against then glass pushing smoke out past the gasket.
> 
> ...


Very interesting! The high draft smoke smell is not as big of a concern for me since I rarely need to operate the stove at this temperature, but I can see where it would be a concern for people who frequently need to run their stove really hot. I also do not have a fan kit and I realize most people do, so this may change my experience relative to others as well. I'm just happy the high density gasket and the copper silicone took care of nearly all the smell on low burns, and that meant the world to me!


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## Highbeam (Nov 20, 2018)

Calentarse said:


> Very interesting! The high draft smoke smell is not as big of a concern for me since I rarely need to operate the stove at this temperature, but I can see where it would be a concern for people who frequently need to run their stove really hot. I also do not have a fan kit and I realize most people do, so this may change my experience relative to others as well. I'm just happy the high density gasket and the copper silicone took care of nearly all the smell on low burns, and that meant the world to me!



I believe Aaron was talking about high chimney draft strength more than his particular intake damper setting. A weak draft would allow intake air from any intake damper setting to just roll into the stove gently but when a tall chimney sucking like a Hoover is pulling in that intake damper things might enter the stove differently. Like making a kissy sound with your mouth vs. taking in the same air volume with an open mouth.

I don’t know if the theory is right but at least we want to understand the theory.


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## Ashful (Nov 20, 2018)

Do kids today say “suck like a Dyson” or Roomba, or does the Hoover reference hold?


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## edyit (Nov 20, 2018)

shopvac has been the term i hear the little darlings use


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## Gotrek (Nov 20, 2018)

As long as no one says girlfriend I think youre safe

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## aaronk25 (Nov 21, 2018)

Ya I was referring to low heat damper settings.  The lower the heat setting the more shut the damper which increases creates the greatest pressure drop inside the box.   Remember the damper is before the stove, the chimney is on the other side and the airwash is in the middle.  

The only smoke smell I have is on low and it’s barely detectable, but made worse by having wood close to the loading door.   

In a aircraft a wing stalls at a certain angle of attack to the oncoming air, the air wash is a wing in which is job is only to smoothly move the air on to the glass.  Suck to hard against it and the air wash “stalls” and air goes directly off the wash straight for the cat.   

Who the hell knows, it’s the best I can come up with.  BK is a great stove and keep in mind no other stove goes into turn down mode as far as a Bk and it’s only in turndown mode that a few of these things smell.   I mean we are slow cooking creosote black oozy stuff inside the box.   Step up a bit and it’s gone...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Calentarse (Nov 23, 2018)

aaronk25 said:


> Ya I was referring to low heat damper settings.  The lower the heat setting the more shut the damper which increases creates the greatest pressure drop inside the box.   Remember the damper is before the stove, the chimney is on the other side and the airwash is in the middle.
> 
> The only smoke smell I have is on low and it’s barely detectable, but made worse by having wood close to the loading door.
> 
> ...


I thought you were referring to the damper setting, but in this house with the taller stack I have the higher draft variable at play as well. Your theory certainly makes sense to me! At any rate, Im a happy man with a nice drafting stove and practically no smoke smell. Gotta save up for a fan kit now and put away this ugly box fan.


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## Ashful (Nov 24, 2018)

@Calentarse, can you save me some back reading, and remind me what the fix was for your situation?   I remember yours being persistent.


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## Calentarse (Dec 1, 2018)

Ashful said:


> @Calentarse, can you save me some back reading, and remind me what the fix was for your situation?   I remember yours being persistent.


Yep, Bk sent me a new style gasket and some copper silicone. Fixed me right up!


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## Parallax (Feb 21, 2021)

We've had our Ashford 30 for five or so years and I honestly wish we hadn't bought it. Had major smoke leak problems. The company that installed it could not figure it out. They were guided by Blaze King and, at one point, the stove was sent back, checked out and then returned. Blaze King made a significant effort but then, at some point, just sought of dropped us (as did the company that had installed it). We were living with major wood smoke all winter. 

Finally, I called down a local chimney sweep. He saw the smoke leak and took care of it by adding an extra gasket, a real large one, around the Blaze King gasket. That was five years ago. Now it's started to leak again and the chimney sweep has retired so we're kind of on our own. I'll see if I can replace both gaskets. Hoping that will do the trick. But I don't expect Blaze King to step up. If I ever buy another stove, it won't be a Blaze King.


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## BKVP (Feb 22, 2021)

When we were first contacted about this issue we requested images of the stove and installation.  This is SOP.  We made contact and immediately asked that the stove stop being used as it was not installed to the proper clearances.  As we recall, the back of the stove was nearly against a combustible wall.  The dealer did not install the stove correctly.

The dealer moved the stove away from the combustible surface and added correcting elbows for a completed vertical termination.  The smoke smell persisted.  We then had the dealer examine the stove and installation and could find no problems.  The stove was removed, crated and returned to our factory.

We were in the middle of multiple test runs for the new KE40 but stopped and began working on a solution for this unit,.  We cleaned up the stove, connected to one of three chimney systems we operate in our facility.  The stove was burned repeatedly for several fires without any smoke smell whatsoever.  This first chimney is attached to a dilution tunnel, where we can control the influence of draft. Even when slowed significantly, we could not detect a smoke smell.

Next, we pulled the stove, replaced all gaskets, glass gasket, door and bypass.  We then connected the stove to a normally (externally) aspirated chimney.  The stove was then fired under high, medium and low burns.  We repeated the process, without any detection of smoke smell.  

It should be noted that the second chimney system is in an isolated room, measuring 30 x 20.  With multiple windows and additional control measures and equipment.  After several days of continued testing, gasket tensions were verified, stove cleaned and detailed and returned to the dealer.

We did in fact step up.  It is unfortunate the stove has not worked out for your home and for that we apologize, but we were unable to find any problem with the stove itself.  We appreciate the patience and cordial manner in which the OP handled himself during the process and we did all we could do to verify it was not an issue with the stove itself.

BKVP


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## stoveliker (Feb 22, 2021)

And evidently you keep quite detailed records too - or you have a memory that deserves to be examined for its exceptional capabilities


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## stoveliker (Feb 22, 2021)

And evidently you keep quite detailed records too - or you have a memory that deserves to be examined for its exceptional capabilities


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## jetsam (Feb 22, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> And evidently you keep quite detailed records too - or you have a memory that deserves to be examined for its exceptional capabilities



When I have a customer with a problem, whether it their fault or not, every single interaction and every single action taken gets documented.

When the person who has been dealing with the issue is on vacation, anyone else can read the notes and step right in. When the parts vendor needs the original purchase order for the lot in question, there it is.  In the (very rare) case that the customer makes the claim that nobody wanted to help them.... it's all documented. 

Sometimes it's a little bit of extra paperwork, but some people just reflexively claim that nobody has ever done anything to help them. At that point, instead of saying "this lady is crazy and I'm done with her", you can read off her file and recalibrate her back to reality. 

It results in better outcomes for everyone, and I imagine it's standard practice in a lot of businesses.


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## BKVP (Feb 22, 2021)

First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products.  The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative. 

Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory.   It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce.   I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street.  I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs.  Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups.  He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.


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## fire_man (Feb 23, 2021)

BKVP said:


> First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products.  The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative.
> 
> Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory.   It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce.   I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street.  I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs.  Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups.  He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.



What was the brand of the first  Whiskey you ever  tried?
Ha!  Bet you can't remember that!


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## BKVP (Feb 23, 2021)

BKVP said:


> First, I remember anytime a customer has a problem with our products.  The OP was very friendly and cooperative and appreciative.
> 
> Second, I have been tested and confirmed to have an acute memory.   It freaks out my 82 year old mother that I recall all incidents from age 3 and older. My father served 30 years in the Airforce.   I was present in DC when the caisson traveled down cobble stones, and not a peep from the crowd as JFK's casket moved down the street.  I giggled a tiny bit and my father pressed his thumbs into my calfs.  Afterwards he asked why I giggled...I said they had the boots backwards in the stirrups.  He explained the lost rider and I never forgot.





fire_man said:


> What was the brand of the first  Whiskey you ever  tried?
> Ha!  Bet you can't remember that!


Oh buddy.....Cal Poly Pomona, 1981 in the student bar "Blazing Saddles"  (yes we had a bar by that name) Steven Ford (Gerald's son) and others all sitting around.  Everyone had a beer as the hard stuff wasn't permitted.  My roommate David (2 roommates both David) opens a flask.  Say' try this, I drank the entire flask in one continued gulp.....that was the best Jameson I ever had!


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## fire_man (Feb 23, 2021)

BKVP said:


> Oh buddy.....Cal Poly Pomona, 1981 in the student bar "Blazing Saddles"  (yes we had a bar by that name) Steven Ford (Gerald's son) and others all sitting around.  Everyone had a beer as the hard stuff wasn't permitted.  My roommate David (2 roommates both David) opens a flask.  Say' try this, I drank the entire flask in one continued gulp.....that was the best Jameson I ever had!


Wow talk about a photographic memory   I'm lucky if I remember if I fed the dog.

This has been an interesting thread.  These smoke smell problems can be super elusive.


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## Parallax (Feb 25, 2021)

BKVP said:


> When we were first contacted about this issue we requested images of the stove and installation.  This is SOP.  We made contact and immediately asked that the stove stop being used as it was not installed to the proper clearances.  As we recall, the back of the stove was nearly against a combustible wall.  The dealer did not install the stove correctly.
> 
> The dealer moved the stove away from the combustible surface and added correcting elbows for a completed vertical termination.  The smoke smell persisted.  We then had the dealer examine the stove and installation and could find no problems.  The stove was removed, crated and returned to our factory.
> 
> ...


If you're responding to my post, everything you've written is truthful. In the beginning you guys really stepped up to help solve the problem. Ultimately the problem wasn't the stove.

That said, you had a dealer who really didn't know what he was doing as evidenced by the fact that he couldn't fix the problem and we lived with smoke for a year. Then we called in a chimney sweep and he immediately saw the problem and cleared it right up. In your test room the stove worked fine but in our family room it leaked. He added to the gasket in one corner where the leak was occurring and that was the end of it until the other day, when it began leaking again. Five years later, it's more than fair to expect to replace the gasket. I called Blaze King and they offered to send a 1 inch gasket, to replace the 7/8 incher that was used last time. So again, kudos to Blaze King for excellent customer service.

My gripe is that when the dealer couldn't find or fix the problem, you stopped returning my calls. My assumption was you had decided I was a crank and there was no real problem. After giving up on you and the dealer, that's when I reached out to the chimney sweep who immediately fixed the problem. I then called to report what had happened and never heard anything back.

You guys need to make sure your dealers know what they're doing. My son, who was then an infant, got his share of stove smoke. Two years later he was diagnosed with type one diabetes. We spent five days at Seattle Children's (three in the ICU). Worse, we came close to losing him. I don't know that the stove smoke was the cause but I'll spend the rest of my life wondering. I'll always regret listening to the nonsense advice I received from the Blaze King dealer and not having called in the chimney sweep before going around and around on the problem.

So, yes, BKVP, you guys made sure the stove was not the problem. You fell down in terms of making sure your dealer was competent.

PS: The dealer tried really hard. His failure was not for lack of effort. By the time they stopped returning my calls, I'm sure they were sorry they had ever agreed to install my stove. I'm sorry too. They did their best but were simply unqualified. They knew all about HVAC but were new to stoves and couldn't figure out what was wrong, even with your help.


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## stoveliker (Feb 25, 2021)

Parallax said:


> If you're responding to my post, everything you've written is truthful. In the beginning you guys really stepped up to help solve the problem. Ultimately the problem wasn't the stove.
> 
> That said, you had a dealer who really didn't know what he was doing as evidenced by the fact that he couldn't fix the problem and we lived with smoke for a year. Then we called in a chimney sweep and he immediately saw the problem and cleared it right up. In your test room the stove worked fine but in our family room it leaked. He added to the gasket in one corner where the leak was occurring and that was the end of it until the other day, when it began leaking again. Five years later, it's more than fair to expect to replace the gasket. I called Blaze King and they offered to send a 1 inch gasket, to replace the 7/8 incher that was used last time. So again, kudos to Blaze King for excellent customer service.
> 
> ...



Well, apart from anything else: keep that sweep!!

And I hope your son's condition is stably managed. Sorry to hear that.


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## Parallax (Feb 26, 2021)

stoveliker said:


> Well, apart from anything else: keep that sweep!!
> 
> And I hope your son's condition is stably managed. Sorry to hear that.


Thanks. My wife and I take turns managing his blood sugar through the night. It's become a way of life for us. God willing, there will be a cure one day. Meanwhile, the technology improves. We are so grateful for the technology. There was a time not long ago when type one was an automatic death sentence. Long after, it was something likely to shorten one' s life. Just a few years ago, parents weren't just waking up every few hours, they were waking up blind, having to prick the child's finger and hoping that they weren't about to rush to the hospital. With luck, in about a year we won't have to do these night vigils anymore. The next generation of insulin pumps should be smart enough to manage blood sugars through the night, when there are no major inputs (and when the technology works, which is not always). 

As for the sweep, he is unfortunately retired. That's why I'm changing the gasket this time. If he were around, without question he'd be doing it. The guy was so honest. Last time he was out to my home to sweep the chimney, he takes a look with his mirror and says there's nothing to do. I said "Seriously?" He replied, "Yeah, I could run my sweep up there if you want and make a bunch of noise. But then I'd have to charge you." He wouldn't take money for the service call. He was a great guy. Hopefully still is. I wish him a long and happy retirement.


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## fire_man (Feb 26, 2021)

Parallax said:


> Thanks. My wife and I take turns managing his blood sugar through the night. It's become a way of life for us. God willing, there will be a cure one day. Meanwhile, the technology improves. We are so grateful for the technology. There was a time not long ago when type one was an automatic death sentence. Long after, it was something likely to shorten one' s life. Just a few years ago, parents weren't just waking up every few hours, they were waking up blind, having to prick the child's finger and hoping that they weren't about to rush to the hospital. With luck, in about a year we won't have to do these night vigils anymore. The next generation of insulin pumps should be smart enough to manage blood sugars through the night, when there are no major inputs (and when the technology works, which is not always).
> 
> As for the sweep, he is unfortunately retired. That's why I'm changing the gasket this time. If he were around, without question he'd be doing it. The guy was so honest. Last time he was out to my home to sweep the chimney, he takes a look with his mirror and says there's nothing to do. I said "Seriously?" He replied, "Yeah, I could run my sweep up there if you want and make a bunch of noise. But then I'd have to charge you." He wouldn't take money for the service call. He was a great guy. Hopefully still is. I wish him a long and happy retirement.


Parallax sorry if you answered  this already but there are 10 pages of posts. Was your draft ever measured and if so how did it compare to BK's requirements? BK tested and found the stove was perfect in their factory setting but you still had the smoke problem finally traced to the gasket.

The root cause might be that  BK's draft requirements don't line up with real world conditions, at least in your case.


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## Parallax (Feb 26, 2021)

fire_man said:


> Parallax sorry if you answered  this already but there are 10 pages of posts. Was your draft ever measured and if so how did it compare to BK's requirements? BK tested and found the stove was perfect in their factory setting but you still had the smoke problem finally traced to the gasket.
> 
> The root cause might be that  BK's draft requirements don't line up with real world conditions, at least in your case.


Those are good points. One of the heroic things the dealer did to try to fix the problem was add another section of pipe to my chimney. It was hard to do, given its location. They secured it well. They didn't charge me a cent. They made sincere efforts to fix the problem. Prior to that, they measured the draft. They had never done it before and were in communication with Blaze King, even as they were running the test. They wound up claiming that draft wasn't the problem. But the chimney sweep later said he didn't think it adequate. The house is surrounded by trees and we live in a dip just off a hill. He said a stove should be able to run with the door open and no smoke entering the home. We could only reload when the fire had burned down to coals; otherwise we'd get smoke. I'm sure draft had something to do with the problem. But he was able to get it working by adding to the gasket at one corner, where the smoke was leaking. The door was tight. The dealer adjusted it after it was brought in the second time and later on I was instructed by Blaze King on how to made that adjustment. Passed the dollar bill test. I was taught how to check the cat to make sure it wasn't obstructed. Ran the stove super hot one time to burn off anything that might be obstructing. We did lots of stuff before the chimney sweep fixed the leak. 

Perhaps, given our location, we would have been better off with a non-catalytic stove.


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