# New tax credits for 2021



## Hotdamn

Hello, I have a new blaze king princess insert ordered and is scheduled to deliver mid January. I heard rumor the new federal tax credit for wood stoves is 26 percent of the purchase price plus install as opposed to the old flat rate of $300. Can anyone confirm that? Also, is the chimney liner price included in that. Thanks for any quality feedback.


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## avsmusic1

Last I knew it wasn’t official yet but probable 
I think the last step was the prez needs to sign


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## logfarmer

It was signed effective Jan 1 2021! 26% of stove price and includes install price.


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## avsmusic1

Tax Credit | Biomass | Stove | Initiatives | HPBA


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## farmer

How many stoves meet the requirements for this?


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## avsmusic1

farmer said:


> How many stoves meet the requirements for this?


I think 50ish but I’m not sure - suffice it to say it’s a fair number 
You can go on the epa site and do a search sorted by efficiency for the full list


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## BAR7MAN

avsmusic1 said:


> I think 50ish but I’m not sure - suffice it to say it’s a fair number
> You can go on the epa site and do a search sorted by efficiency for the full list



Do you happen to have a link handy for the list? I can’t seem to find it. Curious to see if the Travis Industries Large Flush inserts are on there.


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## avsmusic1

Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA
		


Not sure if my filters and whatnot are gonna come through but I tried. Also, this list pre-dates the new credit so it doesn't expressly callout those that qualify, but I think 75 or better is the threshold so any wood heater over that should qualify - it appears the rating on the large lopi is 78 so I'd think it whould qualify


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## BAR7MAN

avsmusic1 said:


> Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if my filters and whatnot are gonna come through but I tried. Also, this list pre-dates the new credit so it doesn't expressly callout those that qualify, but I think 75 or better is the threshold so any wood heater over that should qualify - it appears the rating on the large lopi is 78 so I'd think it whould qualify



Cool, thanks!


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## farmer

I looked and the lopi endeavor is at 74 percent efficiency so that wouldn’t qualify correct?


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## avsmusic1

farmer said:


> I looked and the lopi endeavor is at 74 percent efficiency so that wouldn’t qualify correct?


I'm not claiming to be a tax pro but my understanding is you're correct - doesn't quite make it


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## avsmusic1

*Model**Manufacturer**Firebox Volume**Emission Rate (grams/hr)**Heat Ouput Range (BTUs)**Heat Output Upper (BTUs)**Heat Output Lower (BTUs)**Efficiency*F3500FPI/Regency Fireplace Products3.04​0.9​36174-1070436174​10704​81​King KE40Blaze King Industries, Inc.4.35​1.1​34985-1169034985​11690​81​Green Mountain 80 8680Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.3.16​0.67​33396-1506933396​15069​81​K-180 Series Aspen LE, Tamarack LE, Aberdeen LE, and Alpine LE Kuma Stove And Iron Works1.74​0.72​32121-1061432121​10614​81​Model 91New Buck Corporation (Buck Stove Corp.)2.61​1.9​62745-1036762745​10367​80​202 Palladian, 204 KeystoneWoodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.1.4​0.85​46437-998946437​9989​80​Princess PE32 Blaze King Industries, Inc.2.91​0.4​31478-1020031478​10200​80​F5200FPI/Regency Fireplace Products4.42​0.9​47081-1664847081​16648​80​2B Standard 2020Morso Jernstoberi A/S0.69​0.55​25299-695925299​6959​80​Montecito Estate CAT and WCT6940WSInnovative Hearth Products1.3​39519-1389939519​13899​79​Green Mountain 60 8660Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.2.03​0.6​33576-1260833576​12608​79​K-250 Series Ashwood LE, Wood Classic LE, Cambridge LE, and Cascade LE Kuma Stove And Iron Works2.5​1.1​30308-1119630308​11196​79​212N Navajo Hybrid Wood/Coal, 212S Survival Hybrid Wood/CoalWoodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.1​27294-1533227294​15332​79​Green Mountain 40 (8640), Craftsbury 2 (8392)Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.1.32​1.1​31581-1387631581​13876​79​F1500 and I1500FPI/Regency Fireplace Products1​20386-1424420386​14244​78​Large Flush Wood Hybrid Fyre InsertTravis Industries, Inc2.8​1.9​57628-1071057628​10710​78​F 500 V3Jotul North America (Jotul U.S.A., Inc.)2.41​0.5​38804-1400138804​14001​78​Manchester 8362Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.2.45​0.65​33038-1411133038​14111​78​Vermont Castings Defiant 1975-CAT-C Hearth and Home Technologies1.31​1.3​25471-1197425471​11974​78​Vermont Castings Dauntless Flexburn  Catalytic ModelHearth and Home Technologies1.82​1.2​41943-1451841943​14518​78​205 Fireview CatalyticWoodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.1.85​1.1​46460-760646460​7606​78​Charnwood Skye E700A. J. Wells and Sons LTD0.82​2.5​31943-1112831943​11128​78​209a Progress HybridWoodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.2.8​0.63​47220-1314947220​13149​78​Sirocco SC25, Ashford AF25, Boxer 24 (BX24)Blaze King Industries, Inc.2.3​0.9​26290-1009726290​10097​77​Absolute Steel Hybrid 211Woodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.0.5​45317-1442645317​14426​77​Farringdon 16ARADA STOVES Ltd. 1.5​27025-892827025​8928​77​Kiwi VcV 2.1EcoVision Ltd.1.3​28800-1280028800​12800​77​Ashford AF20.2, Chinook CK20.2, and Sirocco SC20.2 Blaze King Industries, Inc.1.82​0.73​29785-890029785​8900​77​Castleton 8031Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.1.9​0.7​24292-1378124292​13781​77​210a Ideal Steel HybridWoodstock Soapstone Company, Inc.3.22​0.89​43263-932443263​9324​77​Heritage 8024Hearthstone Quality Home Heating Products Inc.2.18​0.54​35845-1231735845​12317​77​Vermont Castings Encore 2040-CAT-CVermont Castings2​1.1​37102-1287937102​12879​77​Vermont Castings Dauntless FlexBurn ModelHearth and Home Technologies1.82​1.1​49428-1225249428​12252​77​6140 B, 6143 B, 6148 B, and 6170 B Morso Jernstoberi A/S0.505​0.67​38107-1504338107​15043​77​Lopi Cape Cod Hybrid-FyreTravis Industries, Inc2.76​1.9​62623-1132262623​11322​77​EvergreenTravis Industries, Inc2.2​1.5​70720-1277270720​12772​77​Intrepid FlexBurn 2115-CATHearth and Home Technologies0.3​15906-1066515906​10665​77​Polaris, Centauri, Vega, Sirius, Antares and RigelJ. A. Roby Inc. 1.4​20841-1175920841​11759​76​Ashford AF30.2, Chinook CK30.2, and Sirocco SC30.2Blaze King Industries, Inc.2.9​0.8​27116-1155327116​11553​76​F2500FPI/Regency Fireplace Products2.24​1​50349-1674650349​16746​76​21M-ACC-C, Discovery-1-
Hearth and Home Technologies1.48​1.7​29322-1358529322​13585​76​Bari, Bari Plus 8171 HybridHase Kaminofenbau (Hearthstone Quality Home Products Inc.)1.25​0.94​26036-1406526036​14065​76​Lopi Rockport Hybrid-Fyre Travis Industries, Inc2.15​1.7​55466-1376055466​13760​76​I2500 FPI/Regency Fireplace Products2.24​1​42995-1717842995​17178​76​Medium Flush Wood Hybrid Fyre Insert
Travis Industries, Inc2.02​1.7​69982-1448369982​14483​76​Princess PI29 InsertBlaze King Industries, Inc.2.6​1.3​24348-969424348​9694​75​Aspen C3Vermont Castings1.25​2​20086-1743920086​17439​75​Pleasant Hearth Large Wood Stove GWS-2200, GWS-2200-B, WSL-2200, WSL-2200-B, LWS-2200, WS-2200, WS-2200-B, PH2200WS, PH2200WS-B, SWS-2200, SWS-2200-B, HWS-2200, HWS-2200-B, PWS-2200-B
GHP Group2​1.5​70045-1639470045​16394​75​Napoleon S30, Timberwolf T30Wolf Steel Ltd.3.2​2.3​37829-1215137829​12151​75​7110 BMorso Jernstoberi A/S0.83​1.1​36554-1645736554​16457​75​


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## mellow

@John Ackerly has a good write up on his blog about it.









						Guidance on the wood stove  tax credit for 2022 and changes for 2023
					

Wood stove, pellet stove, NSPS, EPA, PM, grams per hour, efficiency, LHV, HHV, cleanest, best, carbon neutral, biomass, tax credit, IRS, certified




					forgreenheat.blogspot.com


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## avsmusic1

BAR7MAN said:


> Do you happen to have a link handy for the list? I can’t seem to find it. Curious to see if the Travis Industries Large Flush inserts are on there.


I may have misspoken earlier - looks like the previous model (hybrid fyre) is on list at 78. Travis industries lists the new NexGen model at "up to 78 HHV" which matched at first glance but it appears to be listed as 73HHV efficiency on the EPA site - below the threshold. 

I'd do some more digging with the retailer if I were you.


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## BAR7MAN

avsmusic1 said:


> I may have misspoken earlier - looks like the previous model (hybrid fyre) is on list at 78. Travis industries lists the new NexGen model at "up to 78 HHV" which matched at first glance but it appears to be listed as 73HHV efficiency on the EPA site - below the threshold.
> 
> I'd do some more digging with the retailer if I were you.



Ah okay. Yeah I will definitely do some more digging. Thanks!


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## Amin1992

Can anyone advise on the previous 2020 tax credit? Is it just a $300 credit? 

We received a wood stove insert for free, but paid $2000 for install, stainless steel liner, etc. This was Aug 2020.

Any chance we can get $300? Or could we get the install covered ($2k)?


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## bfg112

I've read the article from HPBA, but I can't find anything in the actual Tax Code under section 25D that includes biomass heaters.  Section 25D is tax credit for solar, water heating, fuel cell, wind energy, and geothermal heat pump.  For these expenses, the tax credit is 26% for tax year 2021, which is reduced from 30% for tax year 2020.  I've asked my tax preparer about it as well, and they are aware of the $300 in 2020, but also don't see anything for 2021 that would apply to wood stoves.

I'm particularly interested in getting a confirmed answer on this because I'm in process of ordering a Blaze King Ashford and have some "flexibility" in the date that will go on the final paperwork.


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## AndrewU

We bought our Ashford 30 in March 2020, but didn’t complete the install (final inspection) until just after the new year.  Would that put us in the 26% credit, or the $300 credit?


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## avsmusic1

AndrewU said:


> We bought our Ashford 30 in March 2020, but didn’t complete the install (final inspection) until just after the new year.  Would that put us in the 26% credit, or the $300 credit?


It certainly could but i'd chat with a tax person obviously. I pasted a portion of the page linked that would suggest you may be in luck, but it's all very early interpretation at this point. Also, I thought I remembered reading that BK has certificates available on their site on for models that qualify - don't quote me though.

*What happens to the 25(C) tax credit?*


_Eliminates the tax credit for biomass stoves under IRC Sec. 25(C) starting in 2021 and enacts this provision in its place_
_*Any product purchased in 2020 that qualifies for the new Sec. 25(D) credit, but isn't installed until 2021, can be claimed under the Sec. 25(D) credit on a 2021 tax return. Products must be claimed on the tax return year in which the product installation is complete.*_



			Tax Credit | Biomass | Stove | Initiatives | HPBA


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## Stir224

bfg112 said:


> I've read the article from HPBA, but I can't find anything in the actual Tax Code under section 25D that includes biomass heaters.  Section 25D is tax credit for solar, water heating, fuel cell, wind energy, and geothermal heat pump.  For these expenses, the tax credit is 26% for tax year 2021, which is reduced from 30% for tax year 2020.  I've asked my tax preparer about it as well, and they are aware of the $300 in 2020, but also don't see anything for 2021 that would apply to wood stoves.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in getting a confirmed answer on this because I'm in process of ordering a Blaze King Ashford and have some "flexibility" in the date that will go on the final paperwork.




"Language for the ITC is contained on page 2,448 of the nearly 5,600-page bill. The credit applies to the installed cost of home heating and hot water systems that utilize wood pellets, chips and cordwood at efficiencies greater than 75 percent high heat value. The ITC is for 26 percent in 2021 and phases down to 22 percent in 2022 and 2023. "






						COVID relief bill will be a gamechanger for residential wood heat | Biomassmagazine.com
					

The $900 billion COVID-19 relief package passed by Congress on Dec. 21 includes provisions of the BTU Act and will enact a three-year investment tax credit (ITC) for high-efficiency home heating equipment that fires wood pellets, chips or cordwood.



					www.biomassmagazine.com
				



.


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## SpaceBus

I noticed the vendor for my cookstove uploaded a document certifying that my wood burning appliance is eligible for the tax credit. My Morso 2b Classic is certified at 83% efficient at nominal output. Does it matter when the appliances were installed? The Morso was December 2018 and the cookstove was November 2019. I didn't know about the previous $300 credit.


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## bfg112

Stir224 said:


> "Language for the ITC is contained on page 2,448 of the nearly 5,600-page bill. The credit applies to the installed cost of home heating and hot water systems that utilize wood pellets, chips and cordwood at efficiencies greater than 75 percent high heat value. The ITC is for 26 percent in 2021 and phases down to 22 percent in 2022 and 2023. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COVID relief bill will be a gamechanger for residential wood heat | Biomassmagazine.com
> 
> 
> The $900 billion COVID-19 relief package passed by Congress on Dec. 21 includes provisions of the BTU Act and will enact a three-year investment tax credit (ITC) for high-efficiency home heating equipment that fires wood pellets, chips or cordwood.
> 
> 
> 
> www.biomassmagazine.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Thank you for that.  Never would have thought to look in the covid relief bill.


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## EvertonPete

Just to be clear, If a stove is listed in the database in the first post as NSPS Certified: Yes, then it is eligible for the new 26% tax credit? I'm asking specifically for the PE line of stoves. I see the T6 is list as a yes, but is rated at 74% efficient while the cutoff is >75%? I'm assuming that would be a 'No' on any PE stove being eligible?


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## begreen

That is correct. Off by a lousy 1%.


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## EvertonPete

Thanks, I had finally settled on the T6 sized Summit, but that’s a good $1500 loss if it’s not eligible


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## begreen

EvertonPete said:


> Thanks, I had finally settled on the T6 sized Summit, but that’s a good $1500 loss if it’s not eligible


$6000 installation?


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## EvertonPete

begreen said:


> $6000 installation?


Yes, looking at a quote today just over that for stove, pipe, and install. Well, but less on the Summit, bit more for BK.


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## begreen

Ouch!


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## BKVP

Remember,  the 26% applies to venting, stove hearth pad and labor....exceptionally good for new construction,  remodels etc.

It also applies to second homes, has not limit, and can be claimed even if a prior credit has been taken.

It applies to wood and pellet as well.

As I recall there are nearly 100+ qualifying units.


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## EvertonPete

BKVP said:


> Remember,  the 26% applies to venting, stove hearth pad and labor....exceptionally good for new construction,  remodels etc.
> 
> It also applies to second homes, has not limit, and can be claimed even if a prior credit has been taken.
> 
> It applies to wood and pellet as well.
> 
> As I recall there are nearly 100+ qualifying units.


Yes, the tax credit weighs in heavily on my thinking right now. I’m just surprised PE didn’t make the list. Right now I’m leaning toward a BK.


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## Grizzerbear

What if you bought and installed a new stove in 2019....could you be able to claim it if it meets the efficiency standards. I'm guessing no but hoping yeah.


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## BKVP

Grizzerbear said:


> What if you bought and installed a new stove in 2019....could you be able to claim it if it meets the efficiency standards. I'm guessing no but hoping yeah.


Then you are eligible for the 25C Tax Credit.  Your credit is capped at $300.00.  Ask your accountant, but if you have not previously claimed the credit, you can get the $300.  Look at the manufacturers website for a certificate validating the eligibility of the stove you purchased.  You need not send the certificate to the IRS, just keep a copy in the event of an audit.


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## Grizzerbear

BKVP said:


> Then you are eligible for the 25C Tax Credit.  Your credit is capped at $300.00.  Ask your accountant, but if you have not previously claimed the credit, you can get the $300.  Look at the manufacturers website for a certificate validating the eligibility of the stove you purchased.  You need not send the certificate to the IRS, just keep a copy in the event of an audit.



Thanks


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## BKVP

From Hearth Patio & Barbecue Assoc.

_Out with the old and in with the new! A new tax credit for wood and pellet heaters, the Wood and Pellet Heater Investment Tax Credit (ITC), officially came into effect on January 1, 2021. The new credit – under Internal Revenue Code Section 25(D) – was created by spending legislation enacted by Congress at the end of 2020.

This is a brand-new tax credit. If a taxpayer claimed the old credit in the past, they could make a qualifying purchase in 2021 and claim this new credit.

This was the result of years of HPBA lobbying and advocacy by other trade associations with similar interests.

*How much is the new credit?*

In 2021 and 2022, taxpayers can claim 26 percent of purchase AND installation costs, with no limit. In 2023, that amount drops to 22 percent. But this is MUCH more generous than the old tax credit, which was just $300 and had many limitations.

*What qualifies for the new Wood and Pellet Heater ITC?*

Any wood or pellet-fueled heater (heats air or water) that is at least 75 percent efficient per the higher heating value (HHV) of the fuel. This is a different requirement when compared to the old tax credit.

Consult the EPA certified list of heaters to see which products qualify. All efficiency numbers on the EPA list are in HHV._


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## theora55

Thanks.  Looks like I can get an Vt Castings Aspen  and get 26% back.  My old stove needs to be replaced.


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## klitscher

I apologize for my ignorance, and I've tried checking through the list of stoves that qualify, but are there any Zero Clearance fireplaces that would qualify for the tax credit?  We're starting new construction soon to include a wood burning fireplace: the current plan design doesn't lend to a stove and we don't have an existing masonry firebox to put an insert in.  Perhaps I'm not understanding the difference between fireplaces that need to be installed in masonry vs framing.  I'll continue searching though the list, but thought I'd check to see if anyone had some advice.


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## begreen

I haven't seen any, but it's a good question.


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## begreen

klitscher said:


> I apologize for my ignorance, and I've tried checking through the list of stoves that qualify, but are there any Zero Clearance fireplaces that would qualify for the tax credit?  We're starting new construction soon to include a wood burning fireplace: the current plan design doesn't lend to a stove and we don't have an existing masonry firebox to put an insert in.  Perhaps I'm not understanding the difference between fireplaces that need to be installed in masonry vs framing.  I'll continue searching though the list, but thought I'd check to see if anyone had some advice.


@klitscher  With a little more searching it looks like the Montecito Estate lists at 79% overall efficiency on the EPA list. Contact Astria and see if they provide the C-55 verification form for this fireplace for the IRS.


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## farmer

It’s too bad this tax credit didn’t work with any stove that met the 2020 regulations.


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## AndrewU

farmer said:


> It’s too bad this tax credit didn’t work with any stove that met the 2020 regulations.


Huh?  What are you talking about?  Doubtful there are any stoves that don’t meet 2020 epa regulations that qualify for the credit.


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## begreen

I think he means that there are many 2020 EPA stoves that don't qualify. Some miss by just 1%, which is a bit frustrating considering they are still very clean-burning stoves. Let your legislators know


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## farmer

AndrewU said:


> Huh?  What are you talking about?  Doubtful there are any stoves that don’t meet 2020 epa regulations that qualify for the credit.


I meant there are a few companies that I know of that have stoves at 74 percent efficiency so it’s too bad those stoves don’t qualify for the tax credit. Both for the companies and consumer.


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## faultymechanics

Question. We had a Pellet boiler installed around January 26th. This qualifies for the 26% credit being a biomass heater.

Do we know if there's a cap on how much credit we will get back?

Additionally if we also replace our wood stove this year would be get another 26% tax credit or can you only claim it on one unit per year?

Any guidance on that anywhere?


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## AndrewU

As I understand it there is no limit per se, but if you don’t otherwise pay enough taxes to use up the credit this year there may be a limit on the number of years you can carry it forward.  But it’s really hard to get good data on that, so it’s very unclear to me how long the credit can be carried forward.

As I understand it you can claim the credit for more than one installation.  But I’m not 100% on that.


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## klitscher

begreen said:


> @klitscher  With a little more searching it looks like the Montecito Estate lists at 79% overall efficiency on the EPA list. Contact Astria and see if they provide the C-55 verification form for this fireplace for the IRS.



Thanks - it does appear that the Montecito Estate and the Superior WCT6940 (which appear to be the same thing) are the only ZC fireplaces on the list.  Thanks again for your help!


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## BJF

I just missed the 26% rebate by 2% HHV as well.

If I wanted to buy a new stove this year... and spend no more than 2k (but still qualify for the 2021 rebate)... what would be the best  bang for the buck?  My "firebox capacity" has to be at least 2.0 cu ft.

Any thoughts?


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## pmurchie

Im looking at a new fireplace sometime this year but it doesn't appear that many meet the cut off to be eligible for the tax incentives, I was originally looking at a larger fireplace like the Pioneer 3 from Quadrafire, it has a 4.1 cu ft firebox but it is only gets 69%, in your opinions will manufacturers adjust models to reach the 75% threshold in the next year or is the list as is pretty much it?


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## begreen

Some more background on the heavy handed 25C changes.








						AGH urges IRS guidance to recognize efficiencies in the EPA Database
					

Wood stove, pellet stove, NSPS, EPA, PM, grams per hour, efficiency, LHV, HHV, cleanest, best, carbon neutral, biomass, tax credit, IRS, certified




					forgreenheat.blogspot.com


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## BKVP

74%, 73%,65%?  They drew the line given great consideration for tax credit filings in past biomass credits.

Do we recall 2008?  30% up to $1500.  Originally the credit was for HHV efficiency but lobbied to LHV efficiency. (To increase consumer choice).  Then nearly 100% of the wood/pellet units qualified.  Clearly that wasn't the original intent, given IRS dropped it to $300.

You can bet, shortly, manufacturers will modify and retest to get average overall efficiency of 75%+.

This is an exciting opportunity for both consumers and most manufacturers.   Of course sourcing enough steel to build stoves is now a great challenge. 

Good news is all the advancement in dealing with this pandemic and getting people back to work.

Stay safe all!


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## Rob_Red

Does anyone know if a new chimney build would qualify for the tax credit? Would I need to prove a compliant stove was also purchased in 2021?


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## 71montess

A little background on me, not a certified stove installer, I’m a master plumber in Massachusetts( highly up our buts with regulations) and always follow the installation instructions. I’ve run metalvent and all fuel flues in my 30+ years in plumbing. I’m building my own house, my third, and will be installing and building the alcove for a Blaze King wood stove. I’m totaling up a bit more than $7000.00 before labor for the pipe, fittings and stove . Will be looking at the 26% tax credit. My question is, as labor can be included, can I charge , and put it into the total , My Labor ?


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## BKVP

71montess said:


> A little background on me, not a certified stove installer, I’m a master plumber in Massachusetts( highly up our buts with regulations) and always follow the installation instructions. I’ve run metalvent and all fuel flues in my 30+ years in plumbing. I’m building my own house, my third, and will be installing and building the alcove for a Blaze King wood stove. I’m totaling up a bit more than $7000.00 before labor for the pipe, fittings and stove . Will be looking at the 26% tax credit. My question is, as labor can be included, can I charge , and put it into the total , My Labor ?


This came up previously in 2008.  The IRS ruled that self performed installs do not allow for labor credit.  Talk with your accountant if you need to.


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## John Ackerly

SpaceBus said:


> I noticed the vendor for my cookstove uploaded a document certifying that my wood burning appliance is eligible for the tax credit. My Morso 2b Classic is certified at 83% efficient at nominal output. Does it matter when the appliances were installed? The Morso was December 2018 and the cookstove was November 2019. I didn't know about the previous $300 credit.


The efficiency has to be measured using HHV, which is how its done on the EPA list.  Many manufacturers, and all European ones, use LHV, which makes them appear to be more efficient.  So that Morso at 83% should not be relied on.  Check it against the EPA list.


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## BKVP

SpaceBus said:


> I noticed the vendor for my cookstove uploaded a document certifying that my wood burning appliance is eligible for the tax credit. My Morso 2b Classic is certified at 83% efficient at nominal output. Does it matter when the appliances were installed? The Morso was December 2018 and the cookstove was November 2019. I didn't know about the previous $300 credit.



Spacebus...The 25C Tax Credit may or may not apply to your 2019 and 2018 purchases.  The newer tax credit, 25D, went into effect on January 1, 2021.  Purchases/completed installs for 25D began 01/01/2021 and end 12/31/2023. (2023 seeing a reduction in percentage)

You need to know the HHV value of efficiency for your prior two units.  Contact the manufacturer.  Then, you can look at the EPA list to verify the efficiencies.  You should also download or obtain a certificate of compliance from the manufacturer for your tax records.  Assuming you have already filed tax years 2018 and 2019, you would need to file amended returns.  It may or may not be worth the effort for the $300 credit that may or may not apply to your 2 prior purchases.

Always defer to your CPA or accountant.

BKVP


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## SpaceBus

BKVP said:


> Spacebus...The 25C Tax Credit may or may not apply to your 2019 and 2018 purchases.  The newer tax credit, 25D, went into effect on January 1, 2021.  Purchases/completed installs for 25D began 01/01/2021 and end 12/31/2023. (2023 seeing a reduction in percentage)
> 
> You need to know the HHV value of efficiency for your prior two units.  Contact the manufacturer.  Then, you can look at the EPA list to verify the efficiencies.  You should also download or obtain a certificate of compliance from the manufacturer for your tax records.  Assuming you have already filed tax years 2018 and 2019, you would need to file amended returns.  It may or may not be worth the effort for the $300 credit that may or may not apply to your 2 prior purchases.
> 
> Always defer to your CPA or accountant.
> 
> BKVP


Sounds like it isn't worth the headache, thanks for answering my questions.


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## cincyguy72

The EPA list is difficult to sort through, is it possible for some industrious member of this forum to keep a list of freestanding/inserts that qualify for the 2021 tax credit? 

For my situation, I am quickly finding it is more expensive to pursue the tax credit for qualifying inserts, than it is to just buy a nice insert 1-2% below the HHV threshold, where many additional manufacturers are then included. This is with even including liner costs that would apply to the tax credit.
But, I could be wrong, as the list is hard to get info out of.


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## BCC_Burner

Here you go.


----------



## BKVP

At the very bottom of the EPA online list (lower left) it allows to Export the database as a Excel Document. 

REMEMBER THE LIST IS A LIVING DOCUMENT.  IT CAN BE UPDATED AT ANYTIME.  EPA IS VERY BACKLOGGED ON REVIEWING TEST REPORTS, SO NEW CERTIFICATIONS WILL BE SLOW COMING.


----------



## BCC_Burner

Indeed.  I'm still crossing my fingers and toes that Pacific Energy can get the Alderlea T6 up to 75% efficiency, because it would be the perfect stove for the house I'm buying (last one didn't work out...).  I would love a BK, but I don't have a dealer within 130 miles.


----------



## 71montess

West coast made stoves seem mucho dinero on the east coast. Or maybe they are mucho dinero everywhere?


----------



## BKVP

BCC_Burner said:


> Indeed.  I'm still crossing my fingers and toes that Pacific Energy can get the Alderlea T6 up to 75% efficiency, because it would be the perfect stove for the house I'm buying (last one didn't work out...).  I would love a BK, but I don't have a dealer within 130 miles.


Check for pm...


----------



## EbS-P

cincyguy72 said:


> For my situation, I am quickly finding it is more expensive to pursue the tax credit for qualifying inserts, than it is to just buy a nice insert 1-2% below the HHV threshold, where many additional manufacturers are then included. This is with even including liner costs that would apply to the tax credit.



I don’t think you are wrong. It will mean you could step to a more expensive stove for less money.  I am working through my 2020 taxes now and wondering how the extended child tax credit is going to figure into my 2021 taxes.  Wish there was a 2021 estimation tool, I should probably should look for one. For many large  families these tax changes are substantial.  
Evan


----------



## BKVP

EbS-P said:


> I don’t think you are wrong. It will mean you could step to a more expensive stove for less money.  I am working through my 2020 taxes now and wondering how the extended child tax credit is going to figure into my 2021 taxes.  Wish there was a 2021 estimation tool, I should probably should look for one. For many large  families these tax changes are substantial.
> Evan


You are correct!!  I was in a showroom in Wyoming last week.  The dealer dollarized everything for a consumer and by purchasing a 25D Tax qualifying unit, the potential benefit was more than $2,500.00

When you compare higher quality/tech units, the savings can be substantial.  Unfortunately I was also present when a dealer got chewed out by a consumer to whom he had sold a non qualifying unit.  It seems the dealer did tell him it did not qualify, but said it would apply to the liner, extended hearth work for clearances and labor.  The consumer called the stove manufacturer (stand up company) and they told him none of it qualified because the model he chose did not meet the requirements.

I gathered up my stuff and exited!! Post haste!!


----------



## EbS-P

EbS-P said:


> I don’t think you are wrong. It will mean you could step to a more expensive stove for less money.  I am working through my 2020 taxes now and wondering how the extended child tax credit is going to figure into my 2021 taxes.  Wish there was a 2021 estimation tool, I should probably should look for one. For many large  families these tax changes are substantial.
> Evan


Just finished taxes and did the maths... the temporary 2021 child tax credit will increase by 1600$ for children 5 and under on 12/31/2021 and increase by 1000$ for every child aged 6-17.  
The 25D stove credit is not refundable (I believe).  
Evan


----------



## BKVP

EbS-P said:


> Just finished taxes and did the maths... the temporary 2021 child tax credit will increase by 1600$ for children 5 and under on 12/31/2021 and increase by 1000$ for every child aged 6-17.
> The 25D stove credit is not refundable (I believe).
> Evan


Correct, that is my understanding.  However, it can be carried-over according to the IRS.


----------



## cincyguy72

I found six manufacturers that make qualifying inserts: Buck, Kuma, Innovative Hearth, Hearthstone, Regency, BK. I will need to see a few of these in person, in order to determine if their higher after-rebate price is justified over a non-cat insert. My situation is a self install, so no labor costs. I can see if labor is part of your bill, it might make sense. 
Who knows, this might lower non-cat stoves, which is what I prefer all things equal.


----------



## eshwars

Hi all, I was just about to pull the trigger on a Pacific Energy Summit LE insert and stumbled on this thread. I was a little alarmed to see several people saying that this unit doesn't qualify for the tax credit because it has HHV efficiency listed as 74% (1 point below the 75% threshold). But I did some more research on this online and came across the following certificate on PE's web site. 

Certificate of Efficiency

The certificate language references LHV value as being above 75%. Which is correct? Does LHV have to exceed 75% or HHV? Has anyone been down this path and been able to determine this for sure?


----------



## BKVP

eshwars said:


> Hi all, I was just about to pull the trigger on a Pacific Energy Summit LE insert and stumbled on this thread. I was a little alarmed to see several people saying that this unit doesn't qualify for the tax credit because it has HHV efficiency listed as 74% (1 point below the 75% threshold). But I did some more research on this online and came across the following certificate on PE's web site.
> 
> Certificate of Efficiency
> 
> The certificate language references LHV value as being above 75%. Which is correct? Does LHV have to exceed 75% or HHV? Has anyone been down this path and been able to determine this for sure?


LHV is lower heating value.  It is the efficiency mostly used in Europe and is the efficiency of the appliance on a dry load basis.  In other words, the energy used to consume the moisture in the fuel load is not taken into consideration.   If your fuel is 0% m.c., or you can recover that energy, it is applicable.

HHV is higher heating value.  It more accurately reflects real world as 99%of wood burned has moisture.

In 2008, the original language proposed HHV as the metric, but fewer than 10 stoves would have qualified.   So it was switched to LHV.  Unfortunately,  just about every stove qualified....irritating regulators/IRS. 

In the interim,  manufacturers had to work with the new NSPS, stoves were engineered to burn cleaner and efficiency numbers increased to the degree that more than 40% of the wood stoves now meet the 75% HHV requirement.

If you have concerns,  contact the manufacturer and ask for a certificate of compliance for the 25D tax credit.


----------



## eshwars

Thanks for your thoughtful response BKVP. That's very interesting! The link to Pacific Energy's Certificate of Efficiency (I put in my previous post) states that it's a certificate for compliance with 25C (you referenced 25D). 

I've contacted their customer service. I'll report back what they say.


----------



## BKVP

eshwars said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful response BKVP. That's very interesting! The link to Pacific Energy's Certificate of Efficiency (I put in my previous post) states that it's a certificate for compliance with 25C (you referenced 25D).
> 
> I've contacted their customer service. I'll report back what they say.


25C expired 12/31/2020.  It was limited to $300.  25D started 01/01/2021, 26% with no cap.


----------



## BCC_Burner

eshwars said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful response BKVP. That's very interesting! The link to Pacific Energy's Certificate of Efficiency (I put in my previous post) states that it's a certificate for compliance with 25C (you referenced 25D).
> 
> I've contacted their customer service. I'll report back what they say.




The PE Summit/Alderlea does NOT qualify for the 25D tax credit.  I was in a store shopping for one yesterday.

It strikes me as laziness that PE has yet to figure out how to wring an extra 1% efficiency out of that stove during the EPA test.  Whatever it cost them to re-engineer and re-test the stove would be covered in no time by the increase in sales volume.

We still have a decent number of wood burning stoves in our area, and many people are removing old  (EPA-certified but pre-2002ish) and replacing them.  I've seen probably 15-18 stove replacements this year, and every single one has been a stove that qualified for the tax credit. 

Stove manufacturers that aren't offering at least one qualifying model are only hurting themselves and their reputations, particularly around here, where the stove market is dominated by Jotul, PE and Hearthstone.


----------



## begreen

Yes, I am concerned that in 3-5 yrs there are going to be a lot of stoves running with dead cats. Then the HHV is worthless.  It's already been shown that most people do not maintain their stoves well. These people are better off with a simpler stove.


----------



## eshwars

Alright, I got the final word from the PE sales team confirming that none of their inserts currently qualify. Here's the message:


> Hi Eshwar,
> 
> Thank you for your email to Pacific Energy Fireplaces.
> 
> That is correct, the insert does not qualify for the tax credit. Currently we do not have any units that qualify but we are working hard to meet the requirement.
> 
> Kindest regards,
> Pacific Energy Online Support



I've responded pleading for them to find a way to bridge the 1% gap so that the Summit LE may qualify. Their email is: sales@pacificenergy.net   I request others to email them and make the same request as well. Hopefully getting strong customer feedback will light a fire under them to get it done quickly!


----------



## BKVP

eshwars said:


> Alright, I got the final word from the PE sales team confirming that none of their inserts currently qualify. Here's the message:
> 
> 
> I've responded pleading for them to find a way to bridge the 1% gap so that the Summit LE may qualify. Their email is: sales@pacificenergy.net   I request others to email them and make the same request as well. Hopefully getting strong customer feedback will light a fire under them to get it done





begreen said:


> Yes, I am concerned that in 3-5 yrs there are going to be a lot of stoves running with dead cats. Then the HHV is worthless.  It's already been shown that most people do not maintain their stoves well. These people are better off with a simpler stove.


A proper installation including chimney configuration plays a huge role in the appliance efficiency.  Many (most) stove change out programs insist on a professional NFI or WETT installation for safety reasons.  The additional benefit is increase in efficiency.

Many of the eligible units do not have a combustor that you are concerned about. Anyway, proper maintenance plays a significant role in all stoves, regardless of technology.  EPA mandated in the preamble of the 2015 NSPS that all wood stoves, regardless of technology, must  have "like warranties."

Once EPA clears their backlog, more units will be unveiled to consumers.


----------



## begreen

This is not a warranty issue. The 1998 Oregon study showed that the average homeowner does not do a good job at maintaining their stoves regardless of regulations.  The more complex stoves faired worse in the study.

Unfortunately, the HHV 75% or better non-cat list is not large. Most are small stoves with only a few around 2 cu ft and none larger. The Pleasant Hearth models listed appear to be non-existant.  This leaves no choices for larger stoves due to the arbitrarily biased 75% threshold.


----------



## eshwars

I've searched high and low and even looked at the EPA spreadsheet and haven't found a single non-catalytic insert that has HHV of 75% (or higher). The PE Summit comes closest at 74%

Is anyone aware of an non-catylytic insert that meets the 75% threshold? If so, I would be very grateful if you could posted it here. Thanks!


----------



## BKVP

eshwars said:


> I've searched high and low and even looked at the EPA spreadsheet and haven't found a single non-catalytic insert that has HHV of 75% (or higher). The PE Summit comes closest at 74%
> 
> Is anyone aware of an non-catylytic insert that meets the 75% threshold? If so, I would be very grateful if you could posted it here. Thanks!


----------



## BKVP

Just a bit of back story here.  EPA is currently reviewing all 249 solid fuel heater test reports for wood and pellet stoves.  They are finding mostly very trivial issues relating to the formatting or reporting of test results.  As a result, EPA has moved resources into this effort in order to expedite the process.

I suspect very few new unit certificates are being processed until such time they get their heads above water for units already on the market.  Many manufacturers are awaiting approval (certification) on new stoves or redesigned units.  Hopefully the process will get moving so consumers have more options to choose from.

With such significant delays to new product certifications, there are certainly those of us holding off testing an certifying units.

I have posted and continue to remind everyone, the EPA list is a living document that is updated usually on a quarterly basis.


----------



## eshwars

BKVP, thanks for sharing the inside scoop on what's going with the EPA. That's interesting to know.

BTW, the qualifying models you shared in your previous posts are all Stoves. None of them are inserts.  

It looks the list was pulled from EPA's site, right?


----------



## BKVP

eshwars said:


> BKVP, thanks for sharing the inside scoop on what's going with the EPA. That's interesting to know.
> 
> BTW, the qualifying models you shared in your previous posts are all Stoves. None of them are inserts.
> 
> It looks the list was pulled from EPA's site, right?


Yes.


----------



## cincyguy72

BKVP said:


> A proper installation including chimney configuration plays a huge role in the appliance efficiency.  Many (most) stove change out programs insist on a professional NFI or WETT installation for safety reasons.  The additional benefit is increase in efficiency.
> 
> Many of the eligible units do not have a combustor that you are concerned about. Anyway, proper maintenance plays a significant role in all stoves, regardless of technology.  EPA mandated in the preamble of the 2015 NSPS that all wood stoves, regardless of technology, must  have "like warranties."
> 
> Once EPA clears their backlog, more units will be unveiled to consumers.



Does the new credit have requirements for professional installation? If not, what most are you referring to? I believe the old credit did not, as I helped my friend install his, and he claimed the credit.


----------



## BKVP

cincyguy72 said:


> Does the new credit have requirements for professional installation? If not, what most are you referring to? I believe the old credit did not, as I helped my friend install his, and he claimed the credit.


No it does not....


----------



## Oliviia

very valuable information, thank you


----------



## BKVP

Some modest, limited good news.  I received a call from a manufacturer that has waited since December of 2020 for an extension on their pellet stove....it's in the mail!  So they can resume manufacturing and it also appears other products awaiting certification are making their way through the grist....


----------



## Tithis

Any opinions on if various parts of an  installation need to be done together and/or by the same company? For example we need a new insulated liner to install one of the stoves to code. Do I need to have the stove installer be the one to do it so its on the same bill, or can I find my own installer and still have it qualify? 

Heck if it doesn't have to be the same installer whats to stop me from adding the masonry work I'm having done to meet the chimney height requirements?


----------



## begreen

I think combined bills are ok, including the masonry work as long as it is related to the installation. Have the mason note this is required to make the chimney for the stove code legal on the bill.


----------



## Tithis

I have documentation from a previous inspection highlighting the chimney height issue (only 2ft) and the wood clearance issues that mean we need the UL 1777 insulated liner.

Unfortunately both the sweeps who gave me quotes said 2ft is fine in Massachusetts and are building it to 3ft at my request as part of the rebuild.


----------



## begreen

Make it a condition getting of the job or get someone who knows code. Money talks.


----------



## Tithis

I'll see if I can get them to sign something to the effect of "Job # is being performed to bring chimney in compliance with 780 CMR 6001.x" with a quote of the code.


----------



## BKVP

You can combine costs from different suppliers or services.  Ask your tax professional for full guidance.


----------



## seh1984

Does anybody know how the credit works if the install costs span multiple tax years?

for instance I put down a deposit for my work to be done this week but the stove (morso 7110)isnt Due to be delivered to the store until December at the earliest. What happens if my install happensin January but my deposit was made this week?


----------



## BKVP

seh1984 said:


> Does anybody know how the credit works if the install costs span multiple tax years?
> 
> for instance I put down a deposit for my work to be done this week but the stove (morso 7110)isnt Due to be delivered to the store until December at the earliest. What happens if my install happensin January but my deposit was made this week?


The 25D extends into 2022 at the same 26%.  Any credit not used in 1 year can be carried over to the next year.  Consult with your accountant for application to your particular tax filing.


----------



## 1990dtgl98

Does anyone know if repairs count toward it?

I need a new chimney crown (mine is cracked and I don't want to go the crown coat route). If it's included I can get that 2500 rolled into a new stove as well, I would save money.

I was originally looking at an osburn for the fact it's about 1100 cheaper around here than a blaze king princess insert. However if that credit counts toward repairs I would be 6500 all in minus 1700ish credit ($~4800ish) vs 5.5k for the obsurn.

Does that credit count toward sweeping since that's something that they said they would have to do when tearing out the concrete and top plate (since it's pretty sooty).


----------



## BKVP

It states anything to complete the installation of a qualifying unit.  Ask your accountant.


----------



## mightytitan9

Is there a way to sort it into inserts that qualify? Or does it call them all wood stoves?


----------



## begreen

Inserts are lumped under woodstoves. If the stove mfg includes "insert" in the product name, then it will show up in a search. This reveals 3 inserts from Lopi and BK, but not all the qualifiers show up because the model name is just a model number. Kuma for example has exceptionally efficient insert qualifiers with the Alpine LE and Cascade LE that are not apparent by name.


----------



## BKVP

There are now 12 industry identified inserts that meet the requirements and as beGreen points out, we make 3 but they do not say inserts.  Some mfg's use the same firebox for both freestanding and as inserts. Our BX24 is the same firebox as the AF25 and SC25.

Kuma's are also available in both insert and freestanding.   

I'll check with EPA to see if they can add a column for a ✔ as also available as an insert.  They should be willing.....but mfg's will have to keep EPA informed as to application.


----------



## begreen

The Buck 91 is another that can be freestanding or an insert.


----------



## BKVP

BeGreen, PM me a list of insert you have identified.   I'll get with those guys and ask EPA to implement this concept.  They are keen on making their site more informative.


----------



## begreen

That is a challenge. Some have been promised, but I am not sure when we are going to see them. For example, the Hearthstone Clydesdale hybrid is still mia, but claims high efficiency and says it qualifies on their website.

Add the Regency I1500 & I2500.

Lopi Medium and Large Hybrids


----------



## BKVP

begreen said:


> That is a challenge. Some have been promised, but I am not sure when we are going to see them. For example, the Hearthstone Clydesdale hybrid is still mia, but claims high efficiency and says it qualifies on their website.
> 
> Add the Regency I1500 & I2500.


I know all the CEO's, so I can call them.  I'm on the road next week in Missouri,  so I can also check showrooms...thanks.


----------



## mightytitan9

Is the only requirement that it has to have 75% efficiency? For example, the Osburn 3500  shows it is 77% but I couldn't find it on the list.


----------



## EbS-P

mightytitan9 said:


> Is the only requirement that it has to have 75% efficiency? For example, the Osburn 3500  shows it is 77% but I couldn't find it on the list.


75% HHV.   Look close at the 3500 specs for the HHV.


----------



## BKVP

The 25D Tax Credit should help to offset some of the added expense of whichever wood stove you purchase (so long as it qualifies).  If you have Federal Tax liability, the 26% can be applied over two years if not used entirely on 2021 taxes.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED FOR ALL READING THIS...THE TAX CREDIT APPLIES TO THE YEAR IN WHICH THE INSTALLATION IS COMPLETED.  DUE TO PRODUCT DEMAND ON ALL MANUFACTURERS AND PROXIMITY TO YEAR END, THIS WILL BE COULD BE AN ISSUE.  THE 26% IS 2021 AND 2022.  IT DROPS TO 22% FOR COMPLETED INSTALLATIONS IN 2023..


----------



## thehiggy

EbS-P said:


> 75% HHV.   Look close at the 3500 specs for the HHV.





mightytitan9 said:


> Is the only requirement that it has to have 75% efficiency? For example, the Osburn 3500  shows it is 77% but I couldn't find it on the list.


I'm seeing 71 % (HHV) and 76 % (LHV) for 3500 in their manual - 77% is the "Optimum overall efficiency at a specific burn rate (LHV)"


----------



## BKVP

HHV is all that counts...


----------



## John Ackerly

The tax credit is slated to go UP to 30% IF the Build Back Better act passes.  The bad news, is that it moves from Section 25D, back to 25C, which means it will remain a tax credit, and not be reimbursable, like solar panels will be under 25D.  Its all up to Senator Joe Manchin at this point, and looking unlikely that the BBB Act will be voted on in 2021.  So, if it passes in early or mid 2022, the 30% rate would likely take effect Jan. 1, 2023.  And it will still cover installation, venting, floor protection etc. - anything that is essential to a safe installation.


----------



## 71montess

John Ackerly said:


> The tax credit is slated to go UP to 30% IF the Build Back Better act passes.  The bad news, is that it moves from Section 25D, back to 25C, which means it will remain a tax credit, and not be reimbursable, like solar panels will be under 25D.  Its all up to Senator Joe Manchin at this point, and looking unlikely that the BBB Act will be voted on in 2021.  So, if it passes in early or mid 2022, the 30% rate would likely take effect Jan. 1, 2023.  And it will still cover installation, venting, floor protection etc. - anything that is essential to a safe installation.


There are no free rides in Bidens BBB plan. As the plan is very controversial.


----------



## BKVP

While an increase of 4% to the credit is great,  going from 25D to 25C has two significant drawbacks. 

Under 25C, the credit would not apply to any residence other than the primary residence.  So if a consumer has second residence, such a cabin or beach home, the credit would not apply.  So if these second homes have old smoke dragon wood heaters, they more than likely will remain in use.

Second drawback, under 25C, the credit will not allow for a carryover of any remaining credit to the next tax year.  Being able to carryover credit balances into the next tax year to decrease tax liability is definitely a benefit, especially when folks replace old wood heaters in their primary and secondary homes.


----------



## John Ackerly

For us, the most significant drawback is that the credit under 25C means it will remain exactly that - a tax credit - whereas products under 25D will be able operate more like a rebate, so households don't have to put all the money up front.  This is a key provision if you want to reach lower income families, who are more likely to just self-install and not use the tax credit.  For us, having the tax credit benefit families with second homes is not nearly as important.

Its ironic, because wood and pellet stoves are far more relevant to middle and lower-income families, compared to geothermal and solar PV, for example.  The reason they remained in 25D and we got pushed back to 25C was purely economic: Congress needed to reduce the price tag of 25D and we have the weakest lobby compared to other renewable lobbies, so it was easiest to move us.  There was no major effort to get back into 25D.


----------



## jwoair23

So I got my W2 and I am trying to complete the tax credit through TurboTax. When I enter the total cost (around $5K), it is saying the credit is capped at $300.

Now I will say it says I can't file until 2/2 because the tax form for this credit isnt ready yet from the IRS. When it is updated, will I then get the full 26% credit instead of the $300? It should not be capped at $300 correct?


----------



## stoveliker

I think you are looking at the home energy efficiency update tax credit? If I remember correctly, that is capped at $300. $300 for this is ridiculous, given that most (all?) eligible stoves are north of $1200, and then labor and parts of installation can be added...

I have not heard that there was a cap for this one.


----------



## EbS-P

stoveliker said:


> I think you are looking at the home energy efficiency update tax credit? If I remember correctly, that is capped at $300. $300 for this is ridiculous, given that most (all?) eligible stoves are north of $1200, and then labor and parts of installation can be added...
> 
> I have not heard that there was a cap for this one.


I believe 300 was the old credit not the new 25D credit (26% of install cost). From what I’ve read IRS is really backed up.  Filing begins the 26th.


----------



## jwoair23

stoveliker said:


> I think you are looking at the home energy efficiency update tax credit? If I remember correctly, that is capped at $300. $300 for this is ridiculous, given that most (all?) eligible stoves are north of $1200, and then labor and parts of installation can be added...
> 
> I have not heard that there was a cap for this one.


Yes thats the category it was under, I can't seem to find the right category for this credit in TurboTax. Any idea where I can find it, if anywhere?


----------



## stoveliker

If.the IRS form is not yet ready, then TurboTax won't be able to have you input the data for th credit as they can't process it yet.


----------



## jwoair23

stoveliker said:


> If.the IRS form is not yet ready, then TurboTax won't be able to have you input the data for th credit as they can't process it yet.


That must be it, as even the help description says the biosmass is 26% and not capped, but then it only gives you $300. I'll have to check again in early February when the new form is on TurboTax. 


The IRS defines energy-efficient building property as:


An *electric heat pump water heater* that yields an energy factor of at least 2.2 in the standard Department of Energy test procedure.
An *electric heat pump* that achieves the highest efficiency tier established by the Consortium for Energy Efficiency (CEE) as in effect on January 1, 2009.
A *central air conditioner* that achieves the highest efficiency tier that has been established by the CEE as in effect on January 1, 2009.
A *natural gas*, *propane*, or *oil water heater* that has an energy factor of at least 0.82 or a thermal efficiency of at least 90%.
An *advanced main air circulating fan* is an efficient fan, or blower motor which blows the air that your furnace heats up through the duct system and uses no more than 2% of the furnace’s total energy.
A *biomass fuel stove* used to heat your home (or water for your home) that has a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75%. Wood and wood pellets are considered biomass. For 2021, the credit isn't capped and covers 26% of the full cost (purchase and installation).
You can get 10% of the cost of energy-efficient building property or $300 (whichever is less) as a tax credit.


----------



## stoveliker

Yes, but the 10 pct (<$300) is for generic energy efficiency. After the form is ready, you should be able to get the 26 pct worked out. Good luck.


----------



## Parallax

Spoke with a manager over at Pacific Energy today because I really like the Alderlea stoves but they don't qualify for the tax credit. Was told that they're working on it and hope to have it ready for testing by third quarter of this year. Then it has to get tested and approved so, realistically (this is my opinion, not the PE manager's), we might be looking at the 22% 2023 tax credit but it's still a significant enough savings (again, in my opinion) that it might be worth waiting. 

I also asked if they were planning on introducing catalytic technology and was advised that they are not. That they don't believe in the use of catalysts because they are tempramental and tend to get clogged.  Was relieved to hear that as I'm specifically wanting to avoid catalytic and hybrid stoves. Having spoken with the guy, I'm planning to wait it out. Thought I'd pass this info along in case it's helpful to anyone else.


----------



## GoStove

@Parallax glad I saw this thanks for sharing. Did they sound pretty serious about it? Was this for all their stoves (if you know) or just the Alderlea? I have been wanting to pick up a Summit (74%!) but a rebate would really help.


----------



## jwoair23

TurboTax has now updated their forms and has a line item for biomass stoves. I entered my full cost amount and received 26% back on the refund, so its working perfectly now!


----------



## faultymechanics

jwoair23 said:


> TurboTax has now updated their forms and has a line item for biomass stoves. I entered my full cost amount and received 26% back on the refund, so its working perfectly now!


Can I ask, is it a refund tax credit? Like it gets added right to the refund or does it work differently? For example my total install cost was around 25k, so I should get around $6,500 back. Is that just dumped into my refund and the government cuts me a check?


----------



## EbS-P

faultymechanics said:


> Can I ask, is it a refund tax credit? Like it gets added right to the refund or does it work differently? For example my total install cost was around 25k, so I should get around $6,500 back. Is that just dumped into my refund and the government cuts me a check?


My understanding is that’s is a credit to your tax bill but not refundable if you have no tax bill.

Edit I think it can be carried over to next year but don’t hold me to it.


----------



## jwoair23

EbS-P said:


> My understanding is that’s is a credit to your tax bill but not refundable if you have no tax bill.
> 
> Edit I think it can be carried over to next year but don’t hold me to it.


This is my understanding as well.


----------



## velocity1

Hi All, for those of you wondering if the tax credit is only applied to offset what you owe (if you end up owing) and is not refundable (if you dont owe) for me I found that to not be correct. Year in year out our taxes are consistent, we always get money back. We use HR block and I added in the cost of the stove and install under the bio fuel credit. Once i was all done submitting it showed an additional refund of $1,500 so it does appear you can get money back in your pocket (refundable)


----------



## faultymechanics

velocity1 said:


> Hi All, for those of you wondering if the tax credit is only applied to offset what you owe (if you end up owing) and is not refundable (if you dont owe) for me I found that to not be correct. Year in year out our taxes are consistent, we always get money back. We use HR block and I added in the cost of the stove and install under the bio fuel credit. Once i was all done submitting it showed an additional refund of $1,500 so it does appear you can get money back in your pocket (refundable)


So...I did my taxes and that sort of seems to be the case. Basically if you at least pay some taxes during the year you will get part of that back via this credit. For instance my boiler entitled me to around $6500 in tax credit. Say my wife and I owe at least $8000 a year in taxes. We pay in as much as possible out of our paycheck in hopes to cover that and get a refund.

Because we owed around $8000 and had a credit of $6500, our tax liability was $1500. Over the year we paid in much more than that from our paychecks so we essentially got back that $6500 as a refund....plus whatever other refund we were going to get.

If we only owed $1500 in taxes for the year and paid nothing in, or covered it fully, we would get back what we paid in due to the credit, and the leftover $5000 credit could be used for the following year.

This is my poorly worded understanding. I am by no means a tax professional.


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## stoveliker

You are mistaking "getting money back" for "getting money when your tax bill was already zero". The latter is called "refundable". This credit is not refundable.

When you do your taxes, you see how much your tax bill is, and how much was withheld for that during the year. If more was withheld than your tax bill is, you get a refund.  With this tax credit, that amount of $$ is added to your refund. That is what you see.

However, if you do your taxes, and your tax bill was $0, you will *not* get the 26% in your pocket. The tax credit here is subtracted from your bill, but won't make the number negative.


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## PatrickWR

Hi folks. Just chiming in to report that I successfully obtained the 26% credit for the purchase & install of my qualified EPA stove last year. Pretty painless, too - we used Turbotax and it's listed under the "Tax Credits" section.


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## velocity1

stoveliker said:


> You are mistaking "getting money back" for "getting money when your tax bill was already zero". The latter is called "refundable". This credit is not refundable.
> 
> When you do your taxes, you see how much your tax bill is, and how much was withheld for that during the year. If more was withheld than your tax bill is, you get a refund.  With this tax credit, that amount of $$ is added to your refund. That is what you see.
> 
> However, if you do your taxes, and your tax bill was $0, you will *not* get the 26% in your pocket. The tax credit here is subtracted from your bill, but won't make the number negative.


Ahhhhhhh I see now thanks for clarifying, in my mind (simple and almost like a toddler ) I viewed it as a refund since I'm getting my normal refund like any other year and then on top of that I'm getting an additional "refund" from the tax credit for the stove.


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## stoveliker

Yes, that "on top of" is the nice benefit you got from uncle sam because you bought an efficient stove. Enjoy!


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## Tithis

Filed my federal taxes with the credit yesterday. Tried to do it earlier, but Turbotax hadn't yet updated that section to include biomass.


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## deiser

Chiming in on this thread as I am researching and planning on purchasing a wood insert that qualifies for the 26% credit for my masonry fireplace, and fit the criteria of what I wanted out of the insert as well.  I was interested in the Regency 2700, Osburn matrix 2700, lopi/fireplacex large next gen fyre.   Unfortunately, none of these worked as the HHV is below 75%.  I decided to contact all of the manufacturers and ask if they are recertifiying any of these models, or coming out with an updated model to replace these.
Regency told me that the 2700 just missed the HHV and the only qualifying insert is the I2500, and that is it at this point.  Lopi/FPX ( Travis ) told me the evergreen is the only qualifying insert and they are looking at possibly reintroducing the hybrid fyre models but have no timeframe.  Osburn, never responded to my email inquiries.  
Where does that leave me? Stuck with not many options.  Here in PA, there is not a ton of shops I can go to to view all of these inserts, and I refuse to just buy an insert online without being able to look at the insert itself.  Im open to everyone’s suggestions, and opinions as well.


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## begreen

Some Drolet's and Osburns recently qualified for the tax credit.


			https://www.drolet.ca/file/Drolet_Tax_Certificate.pdf
		

https://sbiweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/6902/tableau-tax-credit-osburn-2022.pdf


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## Parallax

I've spoken to someone in product development at Pacific Energy and they're working on it. They are trying to get various stoves qualified in the next few months. I'm hoping they get the T5 over the line so I can buy one while the credit remains in place.


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## EbS-P

Parallax said:


> I've spoken to someone in product development at Pacific Energy and they're working on it. They are trying to get various stoves qualified in the next few months. I'm hoping they get the T5 over the line so I can buy one while the credit remains in place.


I think the test favors smaller stoves as they have less mass to heat.  Is there a non cat on the EPA list 2 cu ft or larger?


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## Parallax

EbS-P said:


> I think the test favors smaller stoves as they have less mass to heat.  Is there a non cat on the EPA list 2 cu ft or larger?


If you're asking about PE, I don't know. I'm just interested in the T5 (or T6 if they create an enamel version). Didn't ask about other stoves though I believe some may already be certified or very close to certification.


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## EbS-P

Parallax said:


> If you're asking about PE, I don't know. I'm just interested in the T5 (or T6 if they create an enamel version). Didn't ask about other stoves though I believe some may already be certified or very close to certification.


I just looked at the list.  The evergreen firebox is the only 2+ cu ft no cat stove on the list.  Not sure how often it’s updated.  Getting the T5 would be a really big deal.


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## Parallax

EbS-P said:


> I just looked at the list.  The evergreen firebox is the only 2+ cu ft no cat stove on the list.  Not sure how often it’s updated.  Getting the T5 would be a really big deal.


That's what I'm waiting for.


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## begreen

EbS-P said:


> I think the test favors smaller stoves as they have less mass to heat.  Is there a non cat on the EPA list 2 cu ft or larger?


Yes, there are some big 3+ cu ft Drolets/Osburns on the 75%+  list now. The  Osburn 2000 & 3500 are there along with the Drolet Escape 1800 & 2100 and Drolet HT3000. I'm hoping to see the PE Summit and T6 join this list.


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## Parallax

begreen said:


> Yes, there are some big 3+ cu ft Drolets/Osburns on the  75%+  list now. The  Osburn 2000 & 3500 are there along with the Drolet Escape 1800 & 2100 and Drolet HT3000. I'm hoping to see the PE Summit and T6 join this list.


Me too. I don't want a Drolet or an Osburn.


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## begreen

So diving deeper into how this happened, it looks like there is a serious question about SBI's position. They have decided to use the LHV value instead of the HHV. The 25D tax code for the 26% credit clearly states HHV.

_The term "qualified biomass fuel property expenditure" means an expenditure for property- 
(ii) which has a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75 percent (measured by the higher heating value of the fuel)._


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## Parallax

begreen said:


> So diving deeper into how this happened, it looks like there is a serious question about SBI's position. They have decided to use the LHV value instead of the HHV. The 25D tax code for the 26% credit clearly states HHV.
> 
> _The term "qualified biomass fuel property expenditure" means an expenditure for property-
> (ii) which has a thermal efficiency rating of at least 75 percent (measured by the higher heating value of the fuel)._


The PE folks said they're submitting their stoves to EPA for testing. I wouldn't trust a rating that came only from the manufacturer. I'd want to know that EPA was on board. Presumably the IRS would go along with an EPA rating.


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## begreen

Parallax said:


> The PE folks said they're submitting their stoves to EPA for testing. I wouldn't trust a rating that came only from the manufacturer. I'd want to know that EPA was on board. Presumably the IRS would go along with an EPA rating.


Agreed. I am wondering what is behind SBI's challenge to the language of the tax code.


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## BKVP

begreen said:


> Agreed. I am wondering what is behind SBI's challenge to the language of the tax code.


Just over 3 weeks ago, a senior EPA staff person made a few comments related to this discussion.   The comments were made in the presence of dozens of industry staff.

EPA does not regulate efficiency.   EPA posts efficiency from manufacturer test reports. Only the IRS can audit the process of those issuing certificates stating compliance with tax credit requirements. 

Some have questioned whether the language in 25D was specific and requires 75% overall based upon HHV or if any test run hits 75%, the model qualifies.

The EPA staff person made it clear there were concerns that not all test reports indicated that efficiencies were being calculated using B415.1, as intended.

THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT ISOLATED TO ANY ONE MANUFACTURER MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD, RATHER A GENERALIZATION OF INDUSTRY REPORTING.


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## Parallax

Somewhere I saw a list of stoves that were supposedly approved for the tax credit. Given what a large number we're talking about, I wouldn't want to buy without knowing for sure that my stove qualified.


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## mellow

Once again it gets pushed to the end consumer to be on top of this, IF being audited by the IRS one would not find help contacting the stove manufacture (generalized statement).

caveat emptor


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## begreen

The EPA is not the final arbiter here, the IRS is. The language defining 25D appears to be vague enough that some mfgs. interpret it differently than the overall average HHV that the EPA posts. Apparently, there is precedent for this.


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## EbS-P

SBI is a big company. I do have some degree of trust in their interpretation.  I am surprised that is has taken this long.   I do think there must have been some changes somewhere in the government to make them take this route 18 months after it went into effect.


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## Parallax

Not a chance I would take. If EPA approves a stove as meeting the standard, hopefully the IRS wouldn't overrule and reject it. That's hard to imagine. A stove that isn't EPA approved is another matter. Unless the company is offering a guarantee (which I can pretty much guarantee they're not).


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## begreen

Parallax said:


> Not a chance I would take. If EPA approves a stove as meeting the standard, hopefully the IRS wouldn't overrule and reject it. That's hard to imagine. A stove that isn't EPA approved is another matter. Unless the company is offering a guarantee (which I can pretty much guarantee they're not).


As BKVP noted, the EPA does not regulate stove efficiency. Any residential woodstove sold today must have EPA certification. That is different from the somewhat ambiguous tax credit requirement. What is in question is how the HHV qualifier is determined, overall average or best case in testing.


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## BKVP

Again, EPA does not approve or regulate efficiencies, the calculations or anything else related to them.

They open the test report provided to them by the testing agency (lab) and do an edit cut paste of the efficiency number in that report.

EPA only review EMISSIONS requirements to see if they meet the standard (a term reserved for emissions only) not efficiency.


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## Parallax

Somewhere, there's a list of stoves that meet the requirement for the tax credit. Are you saying we can't rely on that list when choosing a stove if we're hoping to get the tax credit?


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## begreen

The EPA database provides the *average* HHV figure. Regardless, you need the 25D tax credit certificate from the manufacturer to document its qualification.


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## BKVP

I will add, as a manufacturer, we are responsible to generate a certificate detailing the applicability of our products for the 25D tax credit.

When consumers file for the credit, they do not send in the certificate.  They keep it for their records.  I think the mfg's would be held accountable to the IRS for the certificates they generate.  How that would be tracked back to individual consumers, challenging.


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## Parallax

Thanks guys.


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## begreen

Parallax said:


> Thanks guys.


If you are eying a T6, then might as well wait. It came in with an HHV test average of 74.9% so it shouldn't take much to make it meet the 75% OA HHV.


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## Parallax

begreen said:


> If you are eying a T6, then might as well wait. It came in with an HHV test average of 74.9% so it shouldn't take much to make it meet the 75% OA HHV.


I would if they offered an enamel finish. My wife insists on it.


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## begreen

Update. The new bill just passed apparently boosts and extends the tax credit.

"This “residential clean energy credit” extends and enhances an existing tax break. Costs incurred from the beginning of 2022 to the end of 2032 would qualify for a 30% tax credit. The credit would fall to 26% in 2033 and 22% in 2034."









						Consumers may qualify for up to $10,000 — or more — in climate tax breaks and rebates in the Inflation Reduction Act
					

The Inflation Reduction Act offers financial incentives in the form of consumer rebates and tax credits to help the U.S. reduce its greenhouse gas emissions.




					www.cnbc.com


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## Parallax

begreen said:


> Update. The new bill just passed apparently boosts and extends the tax credit.
> 
> "This “residential clean energy credit” extends and enhances an existing tax break. Costs incurred from the beginning of 2022 to the end of 2032 would qualify for a 30% tax credit. The credit would fall to 26% in 2033 and 22% in 2034."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Consumers may qualify for up to $10,000 — or more — in climate tax breaks and rebates in the Inflation Reduction Act
> 
> 
> The Inflation Reduction Act offers financial incentives in the form of consumer rebates and tax credits to help the U.S. reduce its greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


Thanks. Not seeing those specifics for wood stoves in the article but I guess it will all become clear soon enough.


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## begreen

Parallax said:


> Thanks. Not seeing those specifics for wood stoves in the article but I guess it will all become clear soon enough.


It's implied. If you click on link 'exisiting' in the article it will bring you to the 25D regs. There, bio-mass is listed. 

Another article says:
Among many other clean energy and carbon reduction incentives, the bill includes extensions and modifications of some Section 25D residential investment energy credits, including part of the BTU Act— the 30% residential tax credit for high-efficiency wood or pellet stoves—which would be extended to 2032, but capped at $2,000.






						Senate Inflation Reduction Act packed with bioenergy incentives  | Biomassmagazine.com
					

Senate democrats on July 27 announced an agreement to bring the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 to vote. The bill includes many bioenergy incentives, particularly the extension and modification of existing tax credits and creation of new ones.



					biomassmagazine.com


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## BKVP

There are several questions industry is looking to get addressed.   Specifically,  is there a carryover after the $2k cap.  Is it primary residence or  do secondary qualify?
What happens when FMR is introduced with new efficiency calculations?  And many more.


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## Parallax

begreen said:


> It's implied. If you click on link 'exisiting' in the article it will bring you to the 25D regs. There, bio-mass is listed.
> 
> Another article says:
> Among many other clean energy and carbon reduction incentives, the bill includes extensions and modifications of some Section 25D residential investment energy credits, including part of the BTU Act— the 30% residential tax credit for high-efficiency wood or pellet stoves—which would be extended to 2032, but capped at $2,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Senate Inflation Reduction Act packed with bioenergy incentives  | Biomassmagazine.com
> 
> 
> Senate democrats on July 27 announced an agreement to bring the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 to vote. The bill includes many bioenergy incentives, particularly the extension and modification of existing tax credits and creation of new ones.
> 
> 
> 
> biomassmagazine.com


Thanks. Does this mean the maximum credit one can get is $2,000?


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## BKVP

Parallax said:


> Thanks. Does this mean the maximum credit one can get is $2,000?


 In the year of completion of install, yes.  Industry is asking, can the remainder of the 30% be a "carryover" to the next tax year.

Once the IRS issues guidance,  I'll update this post....it will be weeks or months.


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## Parallax

BKVP said:


> In the year of completion of install, yes.  Industry is asking, can the remainder of the 30% be a "carryover" to the next tax year.
> 
> Once the IRS issues guidance,  I'll update this post....it will be weeks or months.


Thank you.


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## Jls667

Does anyone know if self-installation would effect the credit? I'm about to install a new qualifying pellet stove myself and obviously would like the credit. I can't imagine the government cares enough but do they want proof of installation by a professional? Or will I just say that it was completed in 2022 along with my proof of a qualifying stove and accompanying vents etc...?


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## stoveliker

In my understanding it does not affect the credit.


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## BKVP

Jls667 said:


> Does anyone know if self-installation would effect the credit? I'm about to install a new qualifying pellet stove myself and obviously would like the credit. I can't imagine the government cares enough but do they want proof of installation by a professional? Or will I just say that it was completed in 2022 along with my proof of a qualifying stove and accompanying vents etc...?


You can do the install, but no claim any labor as part of the credit.


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## RShim

seh1984 said:


> Does anybody know how the credit works if the install costs span multiple tax years?
> 
> for instance I put down a deposit for my work to be done this week but the stove (morso 7110)isnt Due to be delivered to the store until December at the earliest. What happens if my install happensin January but my deposit was made this week?


Can you pay for the install up front - prior to Dec. 31st 2022?


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## RShim

BKVP said:


> The 25D extends into 2022 at the same 26%.  Any credit not used in 1 year can be carried over to the next year.  Consult with your accountant for application to your particular tax filing.


The dealer I am working with just informed me the 2023 tax credit is going up to 33%.  Still, I want to be warm this winter and am willing to lose that  extra %. Just an FYI. I saw on this site it was going down a few % - so what is correct?


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## stoveliker

It was going to go down, but then that inflation reduction act was passed that had higher credits.


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## BKVP

RShim said:


> The dealer I am working with just informed me the 2023 tax credit is going up to 33%.  Still, I want to be warm this winter and am willing to lose that  extra %. Just an FYI. I saw on this site it was going down a few % - so what is correct?


It's not 33%, it is 30%.  And, there is a cap of $2,000.  However,  if installed prior to 12/31/2022, it's 26% without a cap.

Industry typically estimates a new, single story installation with stove, venting, hearth pad and labor at $10,000.

With that figure in mind, you could reduce tax liability by $2,600.00 this year but beginning 1/1/2023, the most you can reduce your tax liability is $2,000. $600 less.

What if you had a much more costly install of a qualifying heater, such as a boiler? At $20,000 before year end, that's $5,200 in tax liability reduction.  After end of this year, it's $2,000.00

Each person needs to do their own calculations and verify their tax situation for eligibility.


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## BKVP

Keep in mind as well, the ability to carryover any unused "credit" into the next tax year will also disappear.

Additionally, not everyone can qualify for the tax liability reduction.  Low income or fixed income households with limited tax liability may not qualify.


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## old_

I am going to remove an old gas fireplace and convert the existing chimney chase into an alcove for a wood stove. I am going to do the work myself. Would materials such as drywall, backerboard, tile, insulation, etc that I will use to convert the chase into an alcove qualify/count as "installation costs" for the tax credit?


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## begreen

old_ said:


> I am going to remove an old gas fireplace and convert the existing chimney chase into an alcove for a wood stove. I am going to do the work myself. Would materials such as drywall, backerboard, tile, insulation, etc that I will use to convert the chase into an alcove qualify/count as "installation costs" for the tax credit?


I don't think so, the credit applies to the required components, like the stove, flue system, cap, & OAK.  If it included all the window trimmings the skies the limit on those costs depending on the installation.


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## BKVP

begreen said:


> I don't think so, the credit applies to the required components, like the stove, flue system, cap, & OAK.  If it included all the window trimmings the skies the limit on those costs depending on the installation.


Begreen is correct with one further clarification:  The tax credit applies to all the labor, parts and materials needed for the "safe" installation of a qualifying product.  So if there was an existing masonry chimney that needed repairs to have a "Safe" installation, it would qualify.  Decorative stuff not likely.  DISCLAIMER; SEEK ADVICE FROM YOUR TAX PROFESSIONAL.


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## EbS-P

Once the gas fireplace is out. You choose the spot.  Now make it a safe (code compliant) install.  No one wants an audit.  23% of your materials to make it safe.  Probably could get any wall shields included.  Hearth needs made.  So count that.  
Your hand made Italian tile for the alcove probably not 

I personally think the chances of an audit of an individual for thier bio mass tax credit is  small.  But no one wants an audit.  They just don’t look at one year.


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## BKVP

We were alerted last week, the Treasury Department is taking comments on a number of issues related to the 25C credit, which begins 1/1/2023.  Hold on for an announcement soon.


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