# Auger Motor not getting power: Whitfield Advantage II



## susb8383 (Oct 24, 2009)

In trying to fix a problem with our auger not turning, we seem to have broken our auger motor in our Whitfield Advantage II. Our original problem was that the motor was going (could hear it) but the auger wasn't turning. We think we fixed the auger not moving, but now the motor isn't going either.

I had a hunch it is an electrical problem because as we tried different things, it would suddenly go on and then stop.

I dug out my trusty multimeter and plugged it into the auger motor connectors. Then I started the stove. It showed at 30 volts. Then I turned on the auger and there was no change in the voltage when the red light went on; still only 30 instead of 120.

But...I don't know what this tells me or what to do next.

I don't know much about wiring and I could not find a wiring diagram online for my Advantage. I can see that one of the wires going into the auger motor is coming from a round red knob mounted to the side and another from a similar thing mounted to the bottom. What these are I have no idea.

I also saw another post that said I can hook up my motor directly to my outlet to test it, but not sure how to do this.

If the problem was a fuse, the motor wouldn't work at all, correct? It wouldn't turn on sometimes, would it? 

Does all of this imply that the problem is a faulty wire?

I'll add that the blowers work fine. 

Any advice?

Thanks, Susie


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## imacman (Oct 25, 2009)

Would a service manual help?

http://woodheatstoves.com/whitfield-advantage-ii-service-manual-p-9570.html


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## hearthtools (Oct 25, 2009)

also the help files in the yellow sticky pages will have your help.


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## susb8383 (Oct 25, 2009)

Hi,

I'm not sure what you mean by the yellow sticky pages.

--Susie


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## susb8383 (Oct 25, 2009)

Oh, I see what you mean; the sticky posts at the top of the forum. 

I had checked those and got info why the auger doesn't turn but the motor works (our original problem) but had glossed right over the first section of why the auger motor doesn't work, since that hadn't been our problem. But now that you mentioned it, I went back and check it and saw that other section.

That could be it. We stuffed a rag into the exhaust pipe (per advice of a different website) since we were trying to test it pulled away from the wall and didn't want all that soot in the house. Maybe that's our issue.  Stay tuned....


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## hearthtools (Oct 25, 2009)

Pellet stoves all work about the same and are very simple to figure our a problem if you just trace back the system that is not working

Sure a common problem is jam up. and yes the auger motor will try to feed for one second then the thermo overload of the motor will stop it and it will try again over and over. once you clear the jam you are good to go.

now if your auger is NOT getting power to it it can be only a few things and the best way is the trace the power from the control board to the auger motor to see why.

auger power at the board Yes mover one
Over heat safety Limit switch (if your stove has one) is it closed and power running through it? Yes Move on

Pressure switch or vacuum switch. make sure the flue is clear. and that the hose and PORT the hose connect to at the stove is clear.
this is the #1 reason a stove will not feed is because the port at the stove is plugged up. in 19 years i have only replaced 2 pressures switches.

the steps and photos are here https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/13499/
this page is linked in the yellow sticky page help pages


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## hearthtools (Oct 25, 2009)

susb8383 said:
			
		

> Oh, I see what you mean; the sticky posts at the top of the forum.
> 
> I had checked those and got info why the auger doesn't turn but the motor works (our original problem) but had glossed right over the first section of why the auger motor doesn't work, since that hadn't been our problem. But now that you mentioned it, I went back and check it and saw that other section.
> 
> That could be it. We stuffed a rag into the exhaust pipe (per advice of a different website) since we were trying to test it pulled away from the wall and didn't want all that soot in the house. Maybe that's our issue.  Stay tuned....



yes any stove that has a pressure switch system will not work if you have the flue blocked.
 unless you jump the pressure switch wires to bypass it.


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## susb8383 (Oct 26, 2009)

Ok, well we solved the first problem of the auger motor. You were right; once we removed the rag stuffed in the exhaust pipe, the auger motor worked again. I'm not sure how anyone can troubleshoot without stuffing the rag in, but that's ok.

We manually turned the auger motor/gear box by hand to rotate the auger. When we did this, we could feel resistance indicating a jam, and pellet debris falling to the bottom of the auger. After getting all we could, we still felt a little bit of resistance in certain places of the rotation. (I've since read that you shouldn't have the gears turn the wrong way. But since we were rotating the entire motor/gear box unit, I don't think gears were rotating at all).

So then in our testing we tried to see if the auger was moving or not when the motor was moving. We thought it wasn't for part of our test, which lead us to think the problem was the missing washer (more on that in a minute). But we finally realized that even if the auger motor is working, the auger won't turn until the entire motor/gear box assembly rotates and then comes to rest. Once it is resting against something in the back, the auger will turn with the motor. That's logical, but we just didn't think of it.

So before we figured that out, we thought the auger wasn't turning even though the motor was. Which led us to think our problem was the washer--I found another page that describes a problem unique to the Whitfield Advantage. The auger motor shaft was some plastic washers/spacers above and below the motor. If the ones on the down side of the motor break off due to wear and tear, then the motor slips down slightly and it won't make contact with the gears even though it is turning. The solution is to purchase a nylon washer and put it in so that the motor is positioned slightly higher. (source http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_pellet_stove.htm )

We did this and confirmed that the auger was now moving.

So we thought we solved the problem and put everything back together. The stove ran all night fine but then stopped today. Again we can hear the auger motor but the auger is not feeding pellets.

So we think our diagnosis was wrong and the problem all along was just a pellet jam in the auger. We cleared some of it when we rotated the auger by hand, enough for the stove to work overnight, but it is jammed again.

Now I'm trying to find info on how to clear a jam. I assume we need to pull out the auger from the back after taking the motor/gear box off the auger shaft. Wish there was a way to just remove the hopper and see if there is a clog from above, but it looks like that would be very tedious based on the number of screws we see in the hopper.

So I guess my new questions are:

1. Are we on the right track for clearing a clog: pull out the auger from the back? Any tricks we need to know?

2. What causes a clog in the first place? We are using a new brand of pellets, Burn. We went through about 6 bags before this problem so we're not convinced it is because of the brand. I did notice some longer pellets than we're used to (1 1/2 inches) but I read somewhere else that anything smaller than 2 inches should be fine. Do you agree?

--Susie


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## greenlaser (Oct 27, 2009)

I have this same stove and went through most of the troubleshooting you are going through now.  I tried different pellets and replaced brass bushings that took some ingenuity.  

One thing you need to consider is the age of the stove.  Now think about the grease in that little gear box that turns the auger.  I opened up that gearbox and it contained grease that had turned to wax and glued the gears to the frame.  The extra resistance here would stop the auger from cutting through tougher pellets.  Finally it would not turn at all.

The fix was to open up the gearbox and clean it well then regrease it with a light synthetic grease.  I have not had a problem with it since.  That was the problem.

You need to be very organized when you take that gearbox apart.  Take careful notes and pictures.  There are small washers or spacers that you will discover under the crud.  Be very careful and clean like you are on an archeological expedition.  Note the orientation of each gear.  I cleaned each part with a toothbrush.

It now cuts through every pellet I can find.  Wish I still had my notes on this fix.  I really doubt you have a clog, just turning that gearbox is putting such a large drag on that motor that it can not turn the auger to cut through a pellet.  Like I said I have this same stove.  It took me a long time to figure out the problem after I had exhausted all the alternatives.  I think I finally noted all this on Butkus


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## susb8383 (Oct 28, 2009)

Hi Everyone,

Well, problem solved! Our original diagnosis was correct after all, the problem was the washer issue. 

I removed the auger and got rid of all the debris (not as scary I thought it would be, but I did have some trouble putting it back correctly. When I felt it go into the little recess at the top, it would spin by hand but not easily. Then after I put the plate back on, I felt it shift a little. Then it spun easily with 1 finger).

But when I put everything back and started it up, the auger still did not spin.

We discovered the auger motor was working but the auger shaft not spinning at all. The missing washer was causing the auger motor shaft not to be in contact with the gear. It is interesting that when we first fixed this problem the day before and we were trying to decide how many washers to add, 2 was too many. It seemed like it fit but then the auger motor didn't turn at all until my husband loosened the screws. So we took 1 out and it seemed to work fine with just the 1 extra. But after it ran overnight, 1 was not enough to keep contact with the gears. When we added a second washer again, it worked fine. (The screws did not need to be loosened to get it to turn).

Thanks, greenlaser. I will keep that in mind for the next time we have a problem.

I have a new appreciation for my stove after all this. It really is a very simple contraption and seems to be extremely well-made.

By the way, the owner's manual was no help at all. It said to try to fix a clog by manually turning the gear box/auger motor by hand, which we did originally. And then it said that if that doesn't work, call a technician. Better advice would have been, if that doesn't work, go find a great forum!

Thanks everyone for some really helpful advice.

--Susie


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## susb8383 (Oct 29, 2009)

Well, I spoke too soon. The stove ran all night fine but then the auger stopped turning this morning.

We looked again, and same problem; motor was turning but auger wasn't. Again the motor wasn't making contact with the gears. In all our futzing around, I may have put a washer on the wrong end. So I took one of the washers from the top side of the motor and put it on the bottom, causing the motor shaft to be further up into the gear box. Now the motor didn't turn at all. So I removed one of the little metal washers from the bottom side (there were 2 there) and put some synthetic motor oil.

Everything worked; motor turned, auger shaft turned, no play in the motor for it to slip out of contact with the gears.

We thought our problems were solved. Put the stove back together and ran it. It all went fine for about 10 minutes. But the auger turning made a rattling sound. Then it stopped turning again.

Sigh...

I guess it's open up the back again and try to figure out what's wrong. We thought we had it fixed.

Greenlaser, how can you tell if the gearbox needs lubing? Is opening it up the only way?

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks, Susie


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## hearthtools (Oct 29, 2009)

susb8383 said:
			
		

> Well, I spoke too soon. The stove ran all night fine but then the auger stopped turning this morning.
> 
> We looked again, and same problem; motor was turning but auger wasn't. Again the motor wasn't making contact with the gears. In all our futzing around, I may have put a washer on the wrong end. So I took one of the washers from the top side of the motor and put it on the bottom, causing the motor shaft to be further up into the gear box. Now the motor didn't turn at all. So I removed one of the little metal washers from the bottom side (there were 2 there) and put some synthetic motor oil.
> 
> ...



Could be a bad gear in the auger motor.
seen it 100 times the auger will work fine and then stop on that one bad spot and not start for a few times.
thats why I dont screw around with trying to fix motors I just change them with a new motor/gearbox.
to me the time spent screwing around is worth just putting a new motor in.


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## susb8383 (Oct 29, 2009)

Rod, I think you're right. I opened up the gear box and took everything out (very carefully labeling on a piece of paper where everything went). The grease looked fine; it was about the consistency of vaseline.

But I did notice that one of the gears had worn teeth in one spot.

Too bad I can't just buy a replacement gear. It seems a shame to replace everything just because of one gear having gone bad.

Well I must admit that taking apart the gear box was kind of fun.

--Susie


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## susb8383 (Nov 4, 2009)

Yup, that was the problem. The new motor/gear box works fine and we have heat again. Thanks for everyone's help.

Now to tackle the next problem; clinkers in the burn pot. I'm pretty sure it's because the door doesn't fit tightly anymore.

Back to research...


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