# Winter weight bar and chain oil?



## jlightning (Feb 2, 2013)

I stopped by my local stihl dealer today to pick up some winter weight bar and chain oil to find out they didn't  carry any.  When i asked one of the owners why they didn't have any he told me I wouldn't need it and that the regular bar and chain oil would pump through my saw just fine down to around 0 degrees.  Is this true?


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## TreePointer (Feb 3, 2013)

It may or may not get pumped through, but that's not the totality of the issue. It's harder on the pump and may not fully lubricate the bar & chain. Call around to another Stihl dealer or just put a touch of diesel/kerosene in some of your regular bar oil. Some say canola oil does fine in cold temps, but I haven't tried it below 40.


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## StihlHead (Feb 3, 2013)

Below 30you can have problems with summer weight oil. To get around that, I leave my saw and bar oil in the mud room at night if I am going to cut in below freezing weather the next day. Once the saw gets warm the oil tank at the front of the saw near the muffler will keep the oil warm enough to flow well, and having room temp oil in the jug when you go out will usually stay warm enough for the day of cutting.


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## bogydave (Feb 3, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Below 30you can have problems with summer weight oil. To get around that, I leave my saw and bar oil in the mud room at night if I am going to cut in below freezing weather the next day. Once the saw gets warm the oil tank at the front of the saw near the muffler will keep the oil warm enough to flow well, and having room temp oil in the jug when you go out will usually stay warm enough for the day of cutting.


 
+1
Saw keeps the bar oil warm. 
Just let the saw idle a while & warm up , then you'll be good to go.


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## MasterMech (Feb 3, 2013)

jlightning said:


> I stopped by my local stihl dealer today to pick up some winter weight bar and chain oil to find out they didn't carry any. When i asked one of the owners why they didn't have any he told me I wouldn't need it and that the regular bar and chain oil would pump through my saw just fine down to around 0 degrees. Is this true?


 
The green bottled veggie based oil (Stihl Bio Plus) flows better in cold weather without thinning out too much for summer use. A bit pricey but it depends on your usage if that extra cost is significant or not.


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## flyingcow (Feb 4, 2013)

Just buy winter bar oil. Your dealer doesn't have a clue.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Feb 5, 2013)

Just bought a gallon @ TSC for $13.99
Still had Huskies on the shelf.
Sean


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## kopeck (Feb 5, 2013)

Just going to warn you, the Stihl winter oil is kind of on the expensive side.

Dad picked some up last week and at was over $20 bucks a gallon!

K


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## smokinj (Feb 5, 2013)

A little kerosene will hook it right up..........


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## lukem (Feb 5, 2013)

I've never ran winter weight bar oil.  If you can get it out of the jug and into the saw, it will make it to the bar just fine.  

If it gets REAL cold (0's or low teens) my saw and bar oil spend the night inside before a day of cutting.  Easier to start the saw.


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## mecreature (Feb 5, 2013)

saw and oil stays inside before use here too. 
once started it seems to be fine.


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## TreePointer (Feb 5, 2013)

I keep mine in a heated garage, too.  It works out just fine for cutting a little bit in very cold weather.  If, however, I'm out for an extended cutting session on the farm, the stored heat doesn't last and I need the winter weight oil.


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## PLAYS WITH FIRE (Feb 5, 2013)

Not being a smart a55 but idling a saw for extended periods can wear out the needle bearings that the, I guess, fly wheel spins on. The only time the fly wheel spins freely is when at idle because it is not engaged from the centrifugal clutch. It is also good to check these bearings occasionally and a small dab of grease keeps em nice. NEVER too much or often as it will make a mess in the clutch mechanism. 




bogydave said:


> +1
> Saw keeps the bar oil warm.
> Just let the saw idle a while & warm up , then you'll be good to go.


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## raybonz (Feb 5, 2013)

Zap suggested canola oil and it is cheap and works fine.. Get the great value brand at Walmart for well under $10.00 a gallon..

Ray


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## Machria (Feb 7, 2013)

10w-whatever, whatever you have left in the back of the garage works fine.


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## Ashful (Feb 7, 2013)

I was out cutting last weekend, with temps 22 - 28F during the day.  I was running a Stihl 064, a Husqvarna T435, and an Echo 510EVL, all started with a full tank of standard bar oil.  I noticed they had varying degrees of success in keeping the bar lubed, but all ran dryer than normal.  I also noticed my bar oil was so thick in the bottle, it almost could not be poured.  After I was able to use some of the oil in each saw, I replaced with Winter Grade, and things flowed a little better.  

I'm sold on Winter Grade (gotta run something, might as well be the right stuff for the conditions), but have also used 5W-30 in the past, when it was too cold to pour my standard bar oil. 

I was switching saws a good bit (T435 for clearing branches, 064 for the big trunks, 510EVL for everything else), so none had a chance to get all that warm.


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## flyingcow (Feb 7, 2013)

Joful said:


> I was out cutting last weekend, with temps 22 - 28F during the day. I was running a Stihl 064, a Husqvarna T435, and an Echo 510EVL, all started with a full tank of standard bar oil. I noticed they had varying degrees of success in keeping the bar lubed, but all ran dryer than normal. I also noticed my bar oil was so thick in the bottle, it almost could not be poured. After I was able to use some of the oil in each saw, I replaced with Winter Grade, and things flowed a little better.
> 
> I'm sold on Winter Grade (gotta run something, might as well be the right stuff for the conditions), but have also used 5W-30 in the past, when it was too cold to pour my standard bar oil.
> 
> I was switching saws a good bit (T435 for clearing branches, 064 for the big trunks, 510EVL for everything else), so none had a chance to get all that warm.


 
Sorry to be a pain..but I'm right.....Just buy winter bar oil. Your dealer doesn't have a clue.


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## raybonz (Feb 7, 2013)

CANOLA oil


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## Nixon (Feb 7, 2013)

raybonz said:


> CANOLA oil


Just a question . Does the Canola oil ,or for that matter any other vegetable oil degrade over time in the saw  ? Basically ,does it foul the oil pump and bar during storage ?


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## raybonz (Feb 7, 2013)

Nixon said:


> Just a question . Does the Canola oil ,or for that matter any other vegetable oil degrade over time in the saw ? Basically ,does it foul the oil pump and bar during storage ?


I read that canola oil has a shelf life of 1 year at room temperature.. Since you're not going to cook with it I doubt that would matter for our intended purpose..

http://www.canolacouncil.org/oil-and-meal/canola-oil/canola-the-myths-debunked

Ray


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## tfdchief (Feb 7, 2013)

My old saw runs regular Stihl fine when cold.  My new saw doesn't....have to use winter grade.


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## Bigg_Redd (Feb 7, 2013)

jlightning said:


> I stopped by my local stihl dealer today to pick up some winter weight bar and chain oil to find out they didn't carry any. When i asked one of the owners why they didn't have any he told me I wouldn't need it and that the regular bar and chain oil would pump through my saw just fine down to around 0 degrees. *Is this true?*


 
Yes


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## Nixon (Feb 7, 2013)

raybonz said:


> I read that canola oil has a shelf life of 1 year at room temperature.. Since you're not going to cook with it I doubt that would matter for our intended purpose..
> 
> http://www.canolacouncil.org/oil-and-meal/canola-oil/canola-the-myths-debunked
> 
> Ray


Fair enough . But it does get somewhat warm in the saw ( read the winter oil threads ) .


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## Wildo (Feb 7, 2013)

find-a-dealer that knows.  Mine gives me a deal by the case 2 gals for summer and 2 gals for winter for $38.  Winter weight makes a big difference when it get gets below freezing up here.  if you use summer weight in the winter you will go through 75% less oil and 175% more gas, chain, & bar.


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## raybonz (Feb 7, 2013)

Nixon said:


> Fair enough . But it does get somewhat warm in the saw ( read the winter oil threads ) .


I learned about this from Zap and he runs his saws often and he had no problems.. Cooking with oil is done at temperatures of hundreds of degrees which your plastic oil tank could not handle very well.. Zap runs canola oil in his saws year round..

Ray


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## Ashful (Feb 7, 2013)

flyingcow said:


> Sorry to be a pain..but I'm right.....Just buy winter bar oil. Your dealer doesn't have a clue.


 
Umm... for the record, I was agreeing with you, and never discussed this with my dealer.  I think you quoted the wrong guy.


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## Ashful (Feb 7, 2013)

Wildo said:


> find-a-dealer that knows. Mine gives me a deal by the case 2 gals for summer and 2 gals for winter for $38. Winter weight makes a big difference when it get gets below freezing up here. if you use summer weight in the winter you will go through 75% less oil and 175% more gas, chain, & bar.


 
Wow... only $38 for four gallons?  I think the Stihl stuff goes for $19/gallon at our local Ace.

I had noticed myself ripping thru WAY more gas than usual in the 064 this weekend.  I thought it was my imagination, but perhaps it was the standard bar oil I was running.  I topped off with winter grade when I filled my gas tank, noticing the saw had not used it's usual amount of bar oil on the prior tank of gas.


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Below 30you can have problems with summer weight oil. To get around that, I leave my saw and bar oil in the mud room at night if I am going to cut in below freezing weather the next day. Once the saw gets warm the oil tank at the front of the saw near the muffler will keep the oil warm enough to flow well, and having room temp oil in the jug when you go out will usually stay warm enough for the day of cutting.


 
So how long does it take for the saw to get to operating temp ? I would think not long


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## StihlHead (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> So how long does it take for the saw to get to operating temp ? I would think not long


 
The saws do not take long to warm up, but oil at freezing temps can take a while to warm up in the tank.


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## TreePointer (Feb 8, 2013)

It's not just about the pump. The metal bar can cool very quickly. I've had regular Husqvarna and TSC bar oil mix with sawdust and freeze in a 20" bar groove at 17. Material in the bar goove makes for thrown chains, which happened in this instance.

Those of you who say winter weight bar oil is useless, have you ever cut below 20, set your saw down for a while, and then go back to cutting? The entire system can cool quickly.


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

I never thought about it before cuz, I never ran a saw in winter, but when putting oil in at 20 I did think of it, cuz it just makes sense you need something different, so this thread is answering what I would have asked in my own .
Not only that my husky 61 has a plug to remove to increase temps to carb, so I guess, I should pull the plug also, ??


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> The entire system can cool quickly.​


 
Especially since we all are big fans of our Magnesium cased saws over plastic.   Set one of them down in the snow and it'll cool off almost instantly.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Not only that my husky 61 has a plug to remove to increase temps to carb, so I guess, I should pull the plug also, ??​


 

Only if you have trouble with the carburetor icing.  The saw will rev up ok and then seem to bog down/lose power pretty rapidly.  Then I'd try pulling the carb heat shutter.

Stihl's Arctic models have heated handlebars and electric carburetor heat.  Glad I don't have to cut in that kind of cold.


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

If my goatee ices up ,I will check the filter


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## StihlHead (Feb 8, 2013)

Most Stihl saws also have Winter/Summer flip tabs around the spark plug and air filter. That allows more warm air to get into the intake and help prevent carb icing. Problem with winter mode is that more sawdust also gets into the air filter area.


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Most Stihl saws also have Winter/Summer flip tabs around the spark plug and air filter. That allows more warm air to get into the intake and help prevent carbing. Problem with winter mode is that more sawdust also gets into the air filter area.


So your damned if U do, damned it U don't, It's all arbitrary ???


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> So your damned if U do, damned it U don't, It's all arbitrary ???


 Cleaning the filter a little more often is better than a saw you can't run 'cause it bogs out every time you hit the throttle.  The first time you experience Carb Icing you'll get mad, and then be all "WTF?!".  Then it hits you. "Ohhhhhh...."


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

So  !! what about tuning for the temp


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

I noticed tonight that my 034 was a tad rich up high, last time I tuned, it was in the 50's-60's. Prob in the high 20's tonight.  I noticed I had to lean on 'er a bit to get it to quit four-stroking. I'll check the air filter and sharpen the chain I guess. 

I only re-tune in the field if something doesn't sound right to me. I'll check each saw from time to time with a tach to make sure I'm not exceeding the "redline" at WOT no-load. I do that just about every time they get a thorough cleaning.


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## HDRock (Feb 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I noticed tonight that my 034 was a tad rich up high, last time I tuned, it was in the 50's-60's. Prob in the high 20's tonight. I noticed I had to lean on 'er a bit to get it to quit four-stroking. I'll check the air filter and sharpen the chain I guess.
> 
> I only re-tune in the field if something doesn't sound right to me. I'll check each saw from time to time with a tach to make sure I'm not exceeding the "redline" at WOT no-load. I do that just about every time they get a thorough cleaning.


  Seems to me, if U want your saws running peak, U need the type of tach I have seen in vids,but don't know about


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Seems to me, if U want your saws running peak, U need the type of tach I have seen in vids,but don't know about


Stihl EDT 7 is a great one, not too awful on the wallet either. (I don't remember the specifics but I remember being pleasantly surprised.) It really depends on how much you trust your ears.  Me? I got da' tach.


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## Ashful (Feb 8, 2013)

MasterMech, do you set your H screw by the tach?  Make sure it's four-stroking at some percentage of max rated RPM?  Or just tune by ear, then verify max RPM on the tach?


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## pen (Feb 8, 2013)

For you guys adding in some kero to make your own winter blend, how much do you generally add to a 1/2 gallon of standard bar/chain oil?  A cup?  A pint?


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## Ashful (Feb 8, 2013)

pen said:


> For you guys adding in some kero to make your own winter blend, how much do you generally add to a 1/2 gallon of standard bar/chain oil? A cup? A pint?


 
I've mixed lighter oils with bar oil to thin it, and although I've never added diesel, I'm sure the theory is the same.  I just add a bit at a time, until the bar oil flows nice.  You know how your bar oil pours in warmer weather, so on a cold day, add some 5 weight, mineral oil, or diesel until it pours the same.


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## mecreature (Feb 8, 2013)

In cold temps I have been using an old gear lube squeeze type bottle to fill the bar oil.

well in warm temps too.


of course filled with bar lube.


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## MasterMech (Feb 8, 2013)

Joful said:


> MasterMech, do you set your H screw by the tach? Make sure it's four-stroking at some percentage of max rated RPM? Or just tune by ear, then verify max RPM on the tach?


 
I set it by ear, check it with the tach and adjust from there to control max RPM. A little rich to control RPM is OK as long as it doesn't four-stroke in the wood. If the max-RPM is way high (over 1000 rpm) then I will allow it to rev somewhat high rather than setting it super-rich. I don't hold the saw at WOT no-load for extended periods anyway.


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## StihlHead (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> So !! what about tuning for the temp


 
Tuning for temp? The main way to get a saw to run hotter is to tune the carb lean, but then you risk scoring the P&C. Not a good idea. Carb icing is from cold air coming into the carb and getting even colder from the venturi effect (lower pressure in the carb throat). Hence carb icing can happen well above freezing. One way around it on many Stihl saws is by setting them to 'winter mode' by opening air ports and/or flipping baffles that allow warm air from the engine to keep the carb from icing up. Stihl also has Arctic saw models with heated handles and carbs that are powered by a small magneto that they add on top of the flywheel. They are usually designated by a W and they have a toggle switch on the right side of the handle to activate the heaters. If/when they come out with fuel injection on chainsaws this will resolve the carb icing issue.


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## StihlHead (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> Seems to me, if U want your saws running peak, U need the type of tach I have seen in vids,but don't know about


 
I have a Tech Tac TT 20k. Wireless (but has a wired option), you only need to get the tach a few inches from the saw engine and it reads out the RMP digitally. They are about $90 with shipping (click in this link to see it/order one: _Edge and Engine_). I retune my saws when I change bar lengths or do any work on them, or if I change oil or gas type. Fast-Tach is another similar tach made by the same company. Tiny Tach is another tach that is similar.

And my usual disclaimer: No, I do not work for Edge and Engine, or Stihl or Husqvarna, or any oil company, or DTI Industries or any tachometer company, nor do I get any financial payments, kickbacks or discounts from any of them for my posting here or anywhere else. Edge and Engine is the cheapest place to buy a DTI Tech Tach 20k that I have found, and that is where I got mine several years ago.


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## StihlHead (Feb 8, 2013)

HDRock said:


> So your damned if U do, damned it U don't, It's all arbitrary ???


 
Yah, opening the winter vents allows more saw dust into the air filter area. For that reason I do not use winter mode much, unless the carbs are icing up. It is rather arbitrary as well (setting to summer/winter mode on Stihl saws). Some places Stihl says to use winger mode in temps below 50 degrees, but other places they say to set to summer mode at temps above 70 degrees. That leaves a 20 degree gap! If I do set any of my saws to winter mode, I usually only do it below 40. But keeping the saw inside the night before cutting helps prevent carb icing as well as the summer oil to flow better.


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## raybonz (Feb 8, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> I have a Tech Tac TT 20k. Wireless (but has a wired option), you only need to get the tach a few inches from the saw engine and it reads out the RMP digitally. They are about $90 with shipping (click in this link to see it/order one: _Edge and Engine_). I retune my saws when I change bar lengths or do any work on them, or if I change oil or gas type. Fast-Tach is another similar tach made by the same company. Tiny Tach is another tach that is similar.
> 
> And my usual disclaimer: No, I do not work for Edge and Engine, or Stihl or Husqvarna, or any oil company, or DTI Industries or any tachometer company, nor do I get any financial payments, kickbacks or discounts from any of them for my posting here or anywhere else. Edge and Engine is the cheapest place to buy a DTI Tech Tach 20k that I have found, and that is where I got mine several years ago.


Your name should be Stihl Overkhill lol..

Ray


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## Wildo (Feb 8, 2013)

Joful said:


> Wow... only $38 for four gallons? I think the Stihl stuff goes for $19/gallon at our local Ace.
> 
> I had noticed myself ripping thru WAY more gas than usual in the 064 this weekend. I thought it was my imagination, but perhaps it was the standard bar oil I was running. I topped off with winter grade when I filled my gas tank, noticing the saw had not used it's usual amount of bar oil on the prior tank of gas.


 

I guess I oughta stop complaining about it being over ten bucks a gallon at the local places


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## STICK (Feb 9, 2013)

mecreature said:


> In cold temps I have been using an old gear lube squeeze type bottle to fill the bar oil.
> 
> well in warm temps too.
> 
> ...


 
"old gear lube squeeze type bottle " THANKS for the tip. This hit me like a smack on the noggin. Here I have been pouring from the gallon jug opening cautious not to over fill the chain oil resevoir, and pitching those old gear lube jugs. Duh.


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## Ashful (Feb 9, 2013)

Better yet, find a gear lube jug with the same mouth as your bar oil jug, and just steal the nipple.  I prefer to keep chemicals and oils in their properly-labeled jugs... avoids confusion.


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## STICK (Feb 17, 2013)

Joful said:


> Better yet, find a gear lube jug with the same mouth as your bar oil jug, and just steal the nipple. I prefer to keep chemicals and oils in their properly-labeled jugs... avoids confusion.


 
Oh yes. This would be the answer. Gear lube squirt cap on a quart oil jug clearly labelled as bar oil. I like it. Thank you. 

I use the same bar oil year round. Never saw "winter oil"  The temps can vary wildy here in Colorado so I carry  kerosene. If the oil is not spitting off the tip, I add kero. Also remove the bar to ensure it is clear. Carefully measuring the kero of course by eyeball (wink). Recently I started cutting at 50 degrees and soon we ratcheted down to below 20. But even at 50, the environment on the chain is not the outside temp, but rather the environment of the bar. I was cutting logs that were near zero overnight and were still frozen.


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## mikefrommaine (Feb 18, 2013)

I just bought the winter weight at tsc. Never noticed it there before. I wonder if they put it on clearance in the spring? They had a ton left.


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## Tuneighty (Feb 18, 2013)

Bringing the oil inside the night before I get out to cut has worked swell for us.


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## TreePointer (Feb 18, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> I just bought the winter weight at tsc. Never noticed it there before. I wonder if they put it on clearance in the spring? They had a ton left.


 
Last week, I also saw that winter weight oil at my TSC for the first time ever. If I recall correctly, it was a brand I had never seen before. Also, TSC now has their own "Tractor Supply" brand of chains and chainsaw accessories--China stuff


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## Ashful (Feb 18, 2013)

STICK said:


> Oh yes. This would be the answer. Gear lube squirt cap on a quart oil jug clearly labelled as bar oil. I like it. Thank you.


 
I do have some quart oil bottles with gear lube tops on them, and while not a perfect fit, they always stay on.  I've had better luck with the old "sport" type water bottle tops, which you pull up to squirt and push down to seal, as these used to be EXACTLY the same thread as a quart of oil.  I always used them on my bottles of ATF, to fill transfer cases using such.


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## Nixon (Feb 19, 2013)

Another thing that makes a handy bar oil bottle is the king size dish soap bottles .


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