# Need advice on moving firewood.



## forby (Nov 8, 2010)

Sorry for the long text, but you need to know all to help.

I've been burning full time for 3 years now.  I consume 6.5-7 cords/year

The routine is to buy 8.5 cords of pole wood that gets dropped on my front lawn(I live in town and get plenty of strange looks).  I cut the poles into rounds of 21 inches and hand load a 5x8 trailer.  I pull the trailer to the back yard and hand unload onto the kids basketball area.

I split by hand every day for at least an hour and stack accordingly.  It takes me about 2 months or so to get thru it all.

I also scrounge wood as available.

In the spring, I take the 3 year old stack and hand load it into a 4x6 4-wheeled wagon and using a chest harness, I pull it up to the house.  I figure it's about 500-600 pounds at a time. I pull it up a slight grade to an area near the house and re-stack it for the coming season.  If I feel lazy, I use my 20 year old 11HP Murray to pull it.  It takes about 32 trips or so and the wood aging area is about 120 feet from the "using this year" area.

Now for the advise........

I busted the Murray's tranny.  What should I do now?  I'm 45 years old and know that I can't do this manual pulling for many more years.

A cheap lawn tractor won't work because it's not made for that type of work.  I looked at an old cub super garden tractor, but it wouldn't start and I can't imaging paying $1500 for a 20 year old machine that may break down anytime.  I know there tough, but also expensive to fix.

I can get a new tranny for $350 and hope for the best.  I've abused it for 20 years.

I'm also considering a new JD garden tractor, but it will never be anything more than a tug and maybe a snowblower someday. a $5,000 tug if you will.

Kubota has a few deals now on their compacts.  I know it's a different animal, but I can get a loader that can lift 800 pounds and a 3-point hitch that can lift 1,000 pounds.

I had a $5,000 budget, but the Kubota also has 0% for 5 years.  With my downpayment, that would be only about $150 per month.

I realize that the Kubota may be overkill and going in the complete opposite direction of manual labor that I do now.  

Would a loader that small really be a help?

Any other ideas?


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## Cowboy Billy (Nov 8, 2010)

While I have a few old tractors and love them. If you can afford it go for the kubota with a loader! You won't believe how much you will use it. Its a incredible back saver. And kubota makes a great tractor.

Here's my B21 (21hp) the loader is rated at 930 lbs lift. But it needs the weight of the backhoe to do it. So you will need weight box to use its full capacity. But you can make one easy. Of if you get a 3pt hitch with it make a carry all for the back.


















Billy


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## fjord (Nov 8, 2010)

You're doing it all correctly for what you need. Plenty of body work for the reward.

We call it "appropriate technology" for the small amount of firewood workup done here. From stump to stove for the 6-8 cords of firewood/year, a Honda Foreman ATV (400 cc) all wheel drive, and a 3' x 4' trailer on a Subaru axle with 15" tires does it all from the 60 a. woodlot to the stove. The firewood (along with pulp, forest management, and blow-downs) is harvested in winter only, the butts piled up for spring/summer slow splitting and stacking....done when there's time.

Some ideas for your moving wood: 

1. An ATV and welded up trailer; ATV used , trailer made by a local welder. Good used working ATV ~$3000. (Honda). Trailer: ~$250. (get snow tires!).

2. Smaller loads uphill with a "log cart" IF you enjoy the work.

3. The firewood in the shed is moved from the stacks to the stoves with a small Garden Way or Vermont cart: load ~300 lbs and easy to pull when not filled completely. Our Garden Ways have been abused and used for over 10 years. Neat product.

Good luck.

P.S. A tractor such as Kubota---the smallest one-- would be a yearly cruise or trip for us.


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## Wood Duck (Nov 8, 2010)

If you're doing it by hand, I'd make more trips with smaller loads. You'll still get your exercise, but not wear yourself out so quickly.


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## Cowboy Billy (Nov 8, 2010)

Good point Fjord

  I used to move all my wood around here with my fourwheeler and had a plow to plow my snow until I took it to the farm.

Billy


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 8, 2010)

I push firewood around with the 5' bucket on my compact Ford but I find moving splits or rounds a bit tedious as the bucket isn't big enough.  Beats the wheel barrow though.  If you go that route, definitely get 4WD as your rear wheels will be off the ground a lot with any kind of weight in the loader working on a grade.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 8, 2010)

Quite honestly unless you have enough land and plans to use a tractor I think you're thinking more with the heart than the head . . . I mean, what full-blooded American male doesn't think owning or operating their own tractor would be super cool?

However, for the woods operation that you have described I honestly think a compact Kubota would be overkill . . . again . . . unless you have other plans to use it around the house to do some serious work.

Rather, I would suggest going with one of the following alternatives . . .

If you're looking to get the cheapest and simplest and most reliable method of moving wood from one spot to the next you can go to the hardware store and pick out a decent wheelbarrow. Honestly, I move the bulk of my wood at the house when I take it from the front/side yard to the woodshed and from the woodshed to my porch with a plain Jane wheelbarrow. Sure, it may not be super cool, but it does the job well, rarely breaks down and I save money in not having to pay for the gas . . . plus it's a little more healthy than say using a tractor or ATV or what have you.

If you're thinking you would like some motorized assistance in moving the wood . . . then perhaps you might look at the beefier garden tractors . . . with some decent attachments you could make a garden tractor into a good hauler, mower, snowblower, etc. which would maximize your usage. Sure, a garden tractor may not be as impressive as a compact Kubota tractor . . . but then again, you were happy with the old lawn mower until it crapped out . . . I think this is a case where a garden tractor would make a lot of sense.

If you're thinking that you would like a toy as well as a tool then an ATV or UTV might be a good solution. It can help move the wood or plow your driveway with a plow attachment . . . but on those weekends you have free you can hit the local ATV trails . . . assuming there are local ATV trails. Honestly, if your main reason to get a new tool/toy is to move wood then the ATV is perhaps not the best idea . . . but it can be a lot of fun.

Finally, if you truly think have some plans to use a compact tractor for use with groundwork, hauling out wood, etc. then maybe a compact tractor would make sense. However, I'll leave you with this final thought. I have access to my father's 4WD diesel Kubota with a winch . . . anytime I need it . . . for going into the woods to cut and haul out wood . . . and yet even though I am felling and hauling out wood my tool of choice tends to be my ATV . . . for me, it's easier to use, cheaper to run and it's the right tool for me at the right time.

Good luck in your decision.


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## gzecc (Nov 8, 2010)

Look for a used deere 316, 317, 318, 400, 420. These will be 2-3k Condition is key.
If you not pulling up hills, look for a Deere 212, 214, 216  These should be < $1000.
If you don't want a grass cutting deck the price will come down considerably.


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## gzecc (Nov 8, 2010)

gzecc said:
			
		

> Look for a used deere 316, 317, 318, 400, 420. These will be 2-3k Condition is key.
> If you not pulling up hills, look for a Deere 212, 214, 216  These should be < $1000.
> If you don't want a grass cutting deck the price will come down considerably.


Take a look at this wheelhorse in your area. Make sure there is no smoke on start up. These are very good machines.
http://poconos.craigslist.org/for/2031762791.html


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## Flatbedford (Nov 8, 2010)

You could get an older and pretty strong garden tractor for well under $1000. If not the JDs recommended above, the older International Harvester built Cub Cadets are very strong well built machines. I bought this '68 12 hp hydrostatic with a mowing deck, snow thrower, and front blade for $600 this spring. It runs like a top. All I've had to do is clean the carburetor to keep it running nice. I bought a cheap cart for hauling wood around the property. It will haul more than twice what my overfilled wheelbarrow can and do it much more safely too. If not JD or CC, I think most of the garden tractors of the late 60s and early 70s are strong well built machines that will be reliable last a long time with only basic maintenance.


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## Danno77 (Nov 8, 2010)

I see good used 300 series JDs and other lawn tractors in the $500 or less range all the time. I'd just keep buying cheap tractors and running them hard.


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## forby (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies.....

I think the Kubota is overkill as the old Murray worked in the past.  Thanks for the reality check.

I just found a Cub Cadet 1862 for $1,100.  I don't know much about hydrostatic tractors, but it seem like a real fast and heavy machine.

Any thoughts?  Is $1,100 fair?  The hour meter stopped working at 36 hours and the unit is a 1992.


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## eujamfh (Nov 8, 2010)

Ahhhhhh decisions.  I would probably go big up front, but the most economical way is likely what Danno pointed out.  get older, in good condition units and replace in a few years.  The neat thing is they can last many years...but if you plan 2-3years, you can better tune the numbers. 

But again - a new Kubota...that is near heaven.


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## burntime (Nov 8, 2010)

I dream of a b7800 and use a pallet with 4x4s and some 2x6 bracing.  Just split and fill the pallet, then pick it up with the 3 point and move it by the house when needed with the 3 point...


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## cwill (Nov 9, 2010)

forby said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the replies.....
> 
> 
> I just found a Cub Cadet 1862 for $1,100.  I don't know much about hydrostatic tractors, but it seem like a real fast and heavy machine.
> ...



i have a 1862 and love it. it should work great for what you want to do. 1100 is kinda high unless its perfect condition. ive seen them go for $600 but they were in fair condition. the only cheap part about them is the mower decks.


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 9, 2010)

This saves a ton of work.






The Kubota would indeed be a wonderful tractor to have and own, but also quite expensive. 

If you want to stay on the low expense side, realizing you have a slight rise, you can still get by with some of the smaller garden tractors. Have you ever heard of a rope and pulley?  If you can find something to anchor on the top of the rise, hook the pulley there and then on the rear of the tractor. Pull that load up with only half the power required. Of course you will still need someone guiding the wheelbarrow or wagon but that is the easy part. 

In short, one does not always have to look to the expensive answers. Sometimes one of the older tricks works quite well and that is why our grandfathers used them and passed the ideas down to us lucky ones.


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## gzecc (Nov 9, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> This saves a ton of work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dennis, I need to see this block and tackle demonstration. Make a you tube video, shouldn't  take but a few minutes. My son can do it in 5 minutes.


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 9, 2010)

You do not need a youtube demonstration on such a simple setup.

What you need is something to anchor the pulley to at the top. A tree might work.  You simply wrap a small chain (or rope) around the tree to hold the pulley. Or you could wrap that chain around anything solid, even the rear of a pickup or something similar. 

The pulley is fastened to the chain, which is wrapped around that anchor.

A rope is then run through the pulley with one end fastened to the wheelbarrow. The opposite end is fastened to the rear of the tractor. 

The nice part is that when you begin, the person on the tractor is higher than the wheelbarrow so you can watch what that person is doing. 

You then simply drive the tractor down the hill (slow) while the wheelbarrow goes up the hill. A simple "Whoa" tells you when to stop the tractor. 


I don't remember the exact reduction (but could look it up) but running a rope through a pulley in this manner drastically reduces the power required to pull that wheelbarrow up the slope.


Has anyone ever worked a chain fall? It works under the same theory. Even simpler is every fall when we hang a deer to skin it. We have a pulley hung from a rafter. One man can pull the deer up but if you just lifted the deer, it would be a very tough job for 2 or even 3 men to do.


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## chumby (Nov 9, 2010)

I use a Ford Ranger to move from point A (where the tree fell and was bucked) to point B (where I split, stack, and store).  Just over 3 trips of rounds yields a cord.  Regarding moving from point B (where the wood is stored) to the basement I use a wheelbarrow.  Sometimes, when I can guilt my wife into helping, we use two wheelbarrows - I load and haul with one while she stacks from the one I just delivered.  When she's done I drop off the full one and take the empty one back with me.  We can do a face cord in maybe 25 minutes (0.4 cords).  This is moving wood about 120 feet from the storage area to the house.  The basement has an entrance has a ramp so I just wheel the loads right in.  We own a Kubota B series with a front end loader and have not yet used it to move wood since I believe the current system is more efficient.  With that said I am exploring using the tractor as a skidder to haul half or full logs out of the woods and save some wear and tear on the Ranger, which is my daily commuter and sometimes work vehicle.  I have looked into carts but don't want to drop the money when I don't _need_ a cart.  I'm sure if I already had one my process would involve it.  We burn about 7 cords a year.  A non-sequitur but I do not believe Henry Ford ever processed his own firewood since I get warm more than _just_ twice.


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