# A dealer is saying that fake logs screw up the burn ( P68 etc)



## alternativeheat (Jan 14, 2014)

Still haven't decided between the P61a and P68 Harman and still burning my old home made coal stove ( made more than 30 years ago now). Anyway, was at the dealer again for some stove rope and discussing these stoves yet one more time. The wife brought up the fake logs. He said they look like fake broken deer antlers and do nothing but mess up the flame pattern inside the stove. What do you guys think ?  I don't really see that happening myself but thought I'd ask here. Seems to me that if anything the flame is behind the log set and  I would think it just may not look like the logs/ fake antlers are not on fire. What can I say, she likes the fake logs, especially in the Accentra Insert we saw burning at another dealers show room.

I've found 4 suppliers locally for bagged coal so I haven't been quick to jump on the pellet stove deal just yet.


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## Bioburner (Jan 14, 2014)

Depends on who cleans the stove IMO. PIA to keep clean.


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## P38X2 (Jan 14, 2014)

Is your wife aware that the glass probably ain't gonna stay clean for long, and ultimately screw up the view of the charred antler stumps anyway?


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## Enigma869 (Jan 14, 2014)

I never even considered getting the fake logs.  It just always seemed like it would be a nightmare when it came to cleaning the stove.  I also had two different Harman dealers tell me that they had yet to meet the person who purchased the fake logs who didn't regret their purchase.  For me, I feel like the logs would cover up more of the flame that I'd rather not have blocked.


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## LMPS (Jan 14, 2014)

I would stick to coal if you have a good supply of it......


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## jack kunicki (Jan 14, 2014)

I was going to get them but the dealer mentioned they would just collect ash. In hindsight, I'm glad I listened.


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## john193 (Jan 14, 2014)

My dealer said they are a pain to keep clean as well.


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## mikesj (Jan 14, 2014)

I also considered them when I got my stove. Glad I didn't- I'm sure I would have pulled them out by now. Seems like more trouble than they would be worth.


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## ZBrooks (Jan 15, 2014)

I don't know how the logs are positioned in a Harman or how long they will stay clean.  However, in a previous pellet stove of mine, they got dirty very quickly and after one time of trying to clean them, I tossed them.  Not worth the hassle for 'the look', in my opinion.


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## briansol (Jan 15, 2014)

I used 'em for a week.  good thing they were free.  waste of space for ash.  don't look good after a day.  provides no value.   put a wing on it instead. lol


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## alternativeheat (Jan 15, 2014)

Well, it seems pretty unanimous then. I couldn't care less about the thing myself, especially since we have to buy it and it does nothing for increased efficiency. However, it may not disrupt the burn either but cause the glass to smoke over sooner and ash up the fake antlers quickly. how do these things sit in there anyway, I mean do they just sit there or is there some convoluted install process ?

The big thing for me with the pellet stove is covering the shoulder season better than with coal or during warm ups. Like yesterday hit nearly 50 here but 30's overnight. Last week we had a morning -2 and mid days in the low 20's. With pellets the stove will cover either. With coal , well right now the stove is off. When the stove is off, the oil burner is on ( won't use a whole lot of oil but it's on and will use some oil, which is cause for stomach grinding).


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## smg64ct (Jan 15, 2014)

I have the log set but don't run the stove with them. At the end of the season I clean the stove and put them in for the summer.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 15, 2014)

I had a set in my Invincible. They looked like crap. I threw them away.


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## Enigma869 (Jan 15, 2014)

smg64ct said:


> I have the log set but don't run the stove with them. At the end of the season I clean the stove and put them in for the summer.


 
To the original poster...I'm sure that you already know this, but just as a reminder, this would be pointless if you go with the P68.  The mirrored glass isn't going to allow you to see anything behind it when the stove is not on.


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## RCCARPS (Jan 15, 2014)

I have them, and now they just hang on the wall in the garage.  Stove didn't perform any worse, but its a pain to clean them and the ash tends to build up on them quickly.   The only time I put them in is during the summer or if we have a party/guests over.


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## Jaymaine34 (Jan 15, 2014)

They get dirty fast and take up space where ash could go . Mine like others hang in the garage until summer after I clean it they go in ( not sure why ? )
When I did have them in I had to clean the stove every other day ( or should I say the logs and glass )
Without them I go a week easy .


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## P38X2 (Jan 15, 2014)

Another thing to consider is how convincing are they in the first place? Even if they were completely realistic looking, they just sit there in stasis and almost draw negative attention to themsves for that reason, IMO. 

Kind of like a gas log FP. Even if you had the nicest log set available, it's always the same. Sure, in a restaurant, ski lodge, etc, that's fine, but in your home, where you see it day in and day out, it might be another story. My DV LP FP is nice to have for the ambience (and heat) it provides, but if you stare at it, it has a high cheese factor.


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## Bkins (Jan 15, 2014)

They also get brittle and break very easily.  I'm another who owns them but doesn't use them.  Mine came with the stove and we did use them in the summer for the looks but that by the wayside after the first summers use.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 15, 2014)

I got a set for the MVAE to please my wife. They are a minimum nuisance to clean around. They are brittle and need to be handled gently. They look silly. But the wife likes them, so they stay.
I can't say that they influence the burn characteristics in any way, and a top feeder blows the ash out of the fire pot no matter what is in the way.


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## skibumm100 (Jan 15, 2014)

We had them in our Whitfield Quest in the 90's. They do get dirty pretty quickly. When I mentioned getting fake logs for our Integra insert she said "No way, too much of a pain to clean." On our Quest we only ran it during the evening when we were on that end of the house to take the chill off. Today, we run our insert 24/7 and it gets dirty enough pretty quickly....even with "clean, low ash" pellets. I probably would've had them in there for a week and then taken them out.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 15, 2014)

Enigma869 said:


> I never even considered getting the fake logs.  It just always seemed like it would be a nightmare when it came to cleaning the stove.  I also had two different Harman dealers tell me that they had yet to meet the person who purchased the fake logs who didn't regret their purchase.  For me, I feel like the logs would cover up more of the flame that I'd rather not have blocked.


It IS a nightmare to clean with those logs in there!  I had a set for each of my stoves and they now reside in the attic!  I will entertain any offer!  I can't say that I say a change in the flame pattern.  It's just that they take up space that would normally be filled with ash so the ash builds up all around them and you have to break out the vacuum instead of just brushing the ash down the two holes on the Quads I have.  PITA to the max.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 15, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> I got a set for the MVAE to please my wife. They are a minimum nuisance to clean around. They are brittle and need to be handled gently. They look silly. But the wife likes them, so they stay.
> I can't say that they influence the burn characteristics in any way, and a top feeder blows the ash out of the fire pot no matter what is in the way.


 Good to know thanks. She loves the Accentra insert and I and two dealers now have her fairly convinced that a P series stove will do a better job and be easier to clean. If the fake wood in there keeps her purring then we can deal with tossing them out later if it doesn't work out.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 15, 2014)

A happy wife is a happy life!


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## Enigma869 (Jan 15, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> She loves the Accentra insert and I and two dealers now have her fairly convinced that a P series stove will do a better job and be easier to clean.


 

 I agree with your wife...and the Harman Dealer's advice.  We had the Accentra insert and LOVED the look of it.  That said, it simply was not built for really cold weather.  We became frustrated by how often we had to monitor the pellets in the hopper (small hopper, so it would be very close to empty when waking up in the morning), and how frequently we had to shut the stove down to empty the very small ash pan.  That was enough for me to not even consider another insert when we moved into our new house.  Even though I still prefer the looks of the Accentra over any free standing stove, the heat output and conveniences of the P series was FAR more important to me.  Not to mention, if you get the nickel trim kit and a decorative tile, you can make the P series look quite nice.  The other major difference I noticed is that the Accentra absolutely had to be cleaned once a week, and it was not negotiable.  I noticed that we would start losing heat/efficiency about 5 days after we cleaned it.  With our P68, it only gets cleaned once per month, and I've noticed no heat loss, at all.  This thing is a fire breathing dragon, whether clean or not!  I also agree with your dealer that the P series is definitely easier to clean than the Accentra insert was.  Good luck with your decision.


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## whlago (Jan 15, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> The big thing for me with the pellet stove is covering the shoulder season better than with coal or during warm ups. Like yesterday hit nearly 50 here but 30's overnight. Last week we had a morning -2 and mid days in the low 20's. With pellets the stove will cover either. With coal , well right now the stove is off. When the stove is off, the oil burner is on ( won't use a whole lot of oil but it's on and will use some oil, which is cause for stomach grinding).


 

Yes!  I agree with you 100%.  Those 30-50 degree days (especially with a dampness) become so pleasent with a pellet stove cranking away on heat level one!!  I grew up with a coal stove and my house would be unbearable on those days (we kept it running). AND the pellet stove handles the frigid days just fine.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 15, 2014)

Enigma869 said:


> I agree with your wife...and the Harman Dealer's advice.  We had the Accentra insert and LOVED the look of it.  That said, it simply was not built for really cold weather.  We became frustrated by how often we had to monitor the pellets in the hopper (small hopper, so it would be very close to empty when waking up in the morning), and how frequently we had to shut the stove down to empty the very small ash pan.  That was enough for me to not even consider another insert when we moved into our new house.  Even though I still prefer the looks of the Accentra over any free standing stove, the heat output and conveniences of the P series was FAR more important to me.  Not to mention, if you get the nickel trim kit and a decorative tile, you can make the P series look quite nice.  The other major difference I noticed is that the Accentra absolutely had to be cleaned once a week, and it was not negotiable.  I noticed that we would start losing heat/efficiency about 5 days after we cleaned it.  With our P68, it only gets cleaned once per month, and I've noticed no heat loss, at all.  This thing is a fire breathing dragon, whether clean or not!  I also agree with your dealer that the P series is definitely easier to clean than the Accentra insert was.  Good luck with your decision.



Another confirmation for the P68 ! Incidentally, the wife doesn't care for the nickle trim but likes the slate insert or one of them anyway. Actually so do I. Still looking but it most likely will be either a P61a or P68 for it's added insurance regarding heat capability. I don't want something that looks pretty on the hearth but barely heats the living room !


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## Enigma869 (Jan 15, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> Another confirmation for the P68 ! Incidentally, the wife doesn't care for the nickle trim but likes the slate insert or one of them anyway. Actually so do I. Still looking but it most likely will be either a P61a or P68 for it's added insurance regarding heat capability. I don't want something that looks pretty on the hearth but barely heats the living room !


 
Let us know what you end up with.  I'm nowhere near the expert that many on these boards are, but I do have one rule for any pellet stove purchase.  I will only buy a Harman and I will only buy the largest stove they sell.  As I've said before, I've yet to meet a single person who wishes they purchased a smaller stove, or a smaller TV.  If Harman made a P90, that's what I would have purchased over the P68.

John


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## Ctcarl (Jan 15, 2014)

They do look cool but call me old fashioned. I like my contemporary look on the p35i and told my wife that I thought the silver and log set would ruin the look. Thank god she agreedthe dealer even said it's a waste when my wife mentioned it.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 16, 2014)

Ctcarl said:


> They do look cool but call me old fashioned. I like my contemporary look on the p35i and told my wife that I thought the silver and log set would ruin the look. Thank god she agreedthe dealer even said it's a waste when my wife mentioned it.


I told my wife what everyone here has been saying about the log set, she just sat there, didn't say a word. Continued knitting. What in hell is that supposed to mean,  comment-less woman you got to be kidding me ! That's like a car race with no roar. Ya I know, I've been married to her for 40 years, if I don't know nobody does ( get the log set, toss it out later).


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## Pellet-King (Jan 16, 2014)

whlago said:


> Yes!  I agree with you 100%.  Those 30-50 degree days (especially with a dampness) become so pleasent with a pellet stove cranking away on heat level one!!  I grew up with a coal stove and my house would be unbearable on those days (we kept it running). AND the pellet stove handles the frigid days just fine.


 
Know the feeling back in the early '80's , xmas day it was a rare 60's outside, went to a party at my uncles, he had a coal stove we all sweated to death, also before I bought my pellet I burned wood, you couldnt stay in the basement too long it was over 90 degree's


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## LMPS (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I told my wife what everyone here has been saying about the log set, she just sat there, didn't say a word. Continued knitting. What in hell is that supposed to mean,  comment-less woman you got to be kidding me ! That's like a car race with no roar. Ya I know, I've been married to her for 40 years, if I don't know nobody does ( get the log set, toss it out later).



Take the money you would have spent on a log set and buyer a gift certificate to her favorite knitting store......


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## whlago (Jan 16, 2014)

LMPS said:


> Take the money you would have spent on a log set and buyer a gift certificate to her favorite knitting store......


 
Great idea....beyond that I would change the conversation about how much a pain in the neck the log set is to how pretty the flame looks on its own....because at least in my opinion,it does.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I told my wife what everyone here has been saying about the log set, she just sat there, didn't say a word. Continued knitting. What in hell is that supposed to mean,  comment-less woman you got to be kidding me ! That's like a car race with no roar. Ya I know, I've been married to her for 40 years, if I don't know nobody does ( get the log set, toss it out later).


When a wife says NOTHING, she's saying A LOT!  AND YOU BETTER LISTEN!  Let her clean the stove for a month and those logs will be nothing but a memory!


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 16, 2014)

Pellet-King said:


> Know the feeling back in the early '80's , xmas day it was a rare 60's outside, went to a party at my uncles, he had a coal stove we all sweated to death, also before I bought my pellet I burned wood, you couldnt stay in the basement too long it was over 90 degree's


One good thing about the modern stoker coal stoves is that they can be better regulated for heat output than the hand loaded ones. They work on a thermostat. Back in the 70's I had a top feed Franco Belge and my house was always in the high 70's to 80 in Pa.  No control other than draft.  At least with the stokers, they slow down the feed rate. Even some of the top loading Keystokers have thermostat control.  They've come a long way from Grandpop's ugly monster in the basement and the big grate in the dining room floor that I remember standing over to get warm.  Those grates would make wonderful wall decorations now.  Hmmmm.


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## joescho (Jan 16, 2014)

mikesj said:


> I also considered them when I got my stove. Glad I didn't- I'm sure I would have pulled them out by now. Seems like more trouble than they would be worth.


 
I was told that they don't last long either.  The dealer told me one day I'll be cleaning the stove and they'll disintegrate.  Way too expensive for that.


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## P38X2 (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I told my wife what everyone here has been saying about the log set, she just sat there, didn't say a word. Continued knitting. What in hell is that supposed to mean,  comment-less woman you got to be kidding me ! That's like a car race with no roar. Ya I know, I've been married to her for 40 years, if I don't know nobody does ( get the log set, toss it out later).


That silence means she is finished with the questioning of the logs purchase conversation. It seems you have no choice at this point 

Put em in there and if something "happens" to them down the road, take em out and just say sorry honey, we tried. My guess is she's gonna be thrilled with just the stove and forget about the logs altogether.

Also, make sure you're out of knitting needle range in the future.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 16, 2014)

joescho said:


> I was told that they don't last long either.  The dealer told me one day I'll be cleaning the stove and they'll disintegrate.  Way too expensive for that.


How long they last depends on how rough you treat them. Mine are two years old and have one chip that I did on the first cleaning. They haven't suffered any damage since.
They aren't that hard to clean either. I put a brush on the ash vac and go over the top of them to collect the loose ash. Then I move them out of the insert so that I can clean it. Added time, about 40 seconds.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 16, 2014)

P38X2 said:


> That silence means she is finished with the questioning of the logs purchase conversation. It seems you have no choice at this point
> 
> Put em in there and if something "happens" to them down the road, take em out and just say sorry honey, we tried. My guess is she's gonna be thrilled with just the stove and forget about the logs altogether.
> 
> Also, make sure you're out of knitting needle range in the future.


Ya,I'm leaving it at that, like you I know when to quit! I'm just glad she came on board with the p68 after the insert desire passed. She likes the P68 and so do I.

To the poster about coal stokers. I've thought about them, like the concept. However I believe out here there is one source for rice coal, comes out of Boston. I don't care for the concept of a sole source of fuel.


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## joescho (Jan 16, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> How long they last depends on how rough you treat them. Mine are two years old and have one chip that I did on the first cleaning. They haven't suffered any damage since.
> They aren't that hard to clean either. I put a brush on the ash vac and go over the top of them to collect the loose ash. Then I move them out of the insert so that I can clean it. Added time, about 40 seconds.


 
Oh - I was under the impression that the heat/flame would eventually ruin them.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 16, 2014)

joescho said:


> Oh - I was under the impression that the heat/flame would eventually ruin them.


They are made of basically the same stuff as fire brick. I suppose they will wear out eventually, but at over two years I have seen no changes in them.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> Ya,I'm leaving it at that, like you I know when to quit! I'm just glad she came on board with the p68 after the insert desire passed. She likes the P68 and so do I.
> 
> to the poster about coal stokers. I've thought about them, like the concept. However I believe out here there is one source for rice coal, cones out of Boston. I don't care for the concept of a sole source of fuel.


I can't blame you for being afraid of the once source dilemma for coal.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 16, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> I can't blame you for being afraid of the once source dilemma for coal.


I'm getting nut coal pretty consistently now but rice would be the problem. That guy goes belly up and I have a nice high priced hearth ornament. Not to mention the added delivery charge from Boston ( $35, don't know if that is flat out or per ton). I was looking at Reading Stokers ( 85,000 btu), the stove itself is a great concept if you live in coal country with a ready supply of rice coal near by.


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## Ctcarl (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I told my wife what everyone here has been saying about the log set, she just sat there, didn't say a word. Continued knitting. What in hell is that supposed to mean,  comment-less woman you got to be kidding me ! That's like a car race with no roar. Ya I know, I've been married to her for 40 years, if I don't know nobody does ( get the log set, toss it out later).


Well it sounds like ou have no choice now lol.like you said at least she's on board and excited about the p68.get some pics when you can!


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## alternativeheat (Jan 16, 2014)

Ctcarl said:


> Well it sounds like ou have no choice now lol.like you said at least she's on board and excited about the p68.get some pics when you can!


I will but it's a ways away, hoping to do this next month but by then why open up the present setting to the cold weather ? It's burning fine on the cold days of winter ( the coal stove). Might as well wait till march, it would be in for the shoulder season then.

My next series of questions will be on installation if I do it myself. That depends on finances and if I can get my son-in-law, a mason, on board with me. I'd love to just say ok guys you install it and it may just go that way yet . One stove shop gave an arbitrary figure of $500 labor plus materials. The other said $1000-$1500 including labor. He charges $150 for an installation analysis that roles into the purchase when you go through with the sale.  Nobody has spoken yet of component quality etc. And we know that's as important as the choice of stove, if not more. But I'll be posting on all this along the way.


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## Ctcarl (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I will but it's a ways away, hoping to do this next month but by then why open up the present setting to the cold weather ? It's burning fine on the cold days of winter ( the coal stove). Might as well wait till march, it would be in for the shoulder season then.
> 
> My next series of questions will be on installation if I do it myself. That depends on finances and if I can get my son-in-law, a mason, on board with me. I'd love to just say ok guys you install it and it may just go that way yet . One stove shop gave an arbitrary figure of $500 labor plus materials. The other said $1000-$1500 including labor. He charges $150 for an installation analysis that roles into the purchase when you go through with the sale.  Nobody has spoken yet of component quality etc. And we know that's as important as the choice of stove, if not more. But I'll be posting on all this along the way.


I agree hold of if you can. Here in Connecticut there are only 2 harman dealers near me the first place guy was rude and was charging $1250 for instal the second place night and day difference was charged $850 got a better price and $200 for my trade In .that includeds everything.good luck


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## alternativeheat (Jan 16, 2014)

Ctcarl said:


> I agree hold of if you can. Here in Connecticut there are only 2 harman dealers near me the first place guy was rude and was charging $1250 for instal the second place night and day difference was charged $850 got a better price and $200 for my trade In .that includeds everything.good luck


That was a great price IMO. In my case the first guy is nice enough but he has this air of assumption about him that he "will be" doing this install. It's almost as though you feel bad to ask if you can just buy the stove from him. The other guy is nice too but totally opposite the first. The attitude in this case is the install is easy, in fact you could do it yourself. The first guy though, stocks most of the Harman line and several others but says he has never sold a P68 and doesn't stock that one. He has the P61 and about every other stove made I think. The second guy displays them all but stocks none. You order from him , he says it takes about a week to get in. The first guy says any Harman he has will heat our space but he hasn't looked at our space yet ! The second just simply feels bigger is better than too small but recommends to us either the P61 or P68. If we have any doubts, the P68 will certainly do it.

What we know is we want to do this once and for all, the last stove we get. Retirement is very close at hand, we want it all in and in place for our retirement years. Feed it pellets and vac out some antlers and things necessary too !!


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## Ctcarl (Jan 16, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> That was a great price IMO. In my case the first guy is nice enough but he has this air of assumption about him that he "will be" doing this install. It's almost as though you feel bad to ask if you can just buy the stove from him. The other guy is nice too but totally opposite the first. The attitude in this case is the install is easy, in fact you could do it yourself. The first guy though, stocks most of the Harman line and several others but says he has never sold a P68 and doesn't stock that one. He has the P61 and about every other stove made I think. The second guy displays them all but stocks none. You order from him , he says it takes about a week to get in. The first guy says any Harman he has will heat our space but he hasn't looked at our space yet ! The second just simply feels bigger is better than too small but recommends to us either the P61 or P68. If we have any doubts, the P68 will certainly do it.
> 
> What we know is we want to do this once and for all, the last stove we get. Retirement is very close at hand, we want it all in and in place for our retirement years. Feed it pellets and vac out some antlers and things necessary too !!


Lol that reminds me of what I went through. I decided after the cheap used stove I bougt a year and a half ago that I wanted I good stove.after doing research I found that I wanted a harman.Now for insert I was debating between the p35i and the accentra.accentra was $1000 more and kinda to fancy for me. The p35ivwas just what I wanted but was afraid that the smaller stove 7thousand btu Less I think. Well I decided on the p35i and knock on wood is even higher than my expectations.Love it and very happy I trusted my gut and went with this over the larger accentra.Also to the fact I liked the p35i look the way it is no silver or Anything.So take your time and trust your gut


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## Enigma869 (Jan 17, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> The first guy though, stocks most of the Harman line and several others but says he has never sold a P68 .


 
The guy is a Harman dealer and has never sold a single P68?  Really?  Am I the only one who finds this VERY odd?


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## ironpony (Jan 17, 2014)

My Invincible definitely burns better with the firebrick installed and the logs in the closet.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 17, 2014)

Enigma869 said:


> The guy is a Harman dealer and has never sold a single P68?  Really?  Am I the only one who finds this VERY odd?


 Well too, I don't know how long he has been in business. The second guy has been around for 35 years or more, though the kids run the business now. I believe the first place is pretty new at it but has all the flash over the other. Fancy install truck with Harman plastered all over it etc.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 17, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> but has all the flash over the other


Flash doesn't equate to a better install or better service. Just saying.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 17, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Flash doesn't equate to a better install or better service. Just saying.


 Can't argue with that!


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## wwert (Jan 17, 2014)

Listen to your dealer. When you first get a stove you get all concerned about looks and clean glass. After a few seasons all you care about is keeping it running and staying warm.


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## CygnusX1 (Jan 17, 2014)

I had the fake logs in my stove for about a month, yeah they look nice, but what a disaster to clean. Just "accidentally" drop them while cleaning and you'll be rid of them. Then all you have to say is: "Sorry honey".


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## THE ROOSTER (Jan 17, 2014)

They are in my Harman Accentra Insert only in the summer and/or for parties held at the house.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 18, 2014)

You must have gone to the stove center. I told Rob they looked like antlers! I cannot see the logs in the p series screwing up anything cause they are behind the burn pot in place of the brick. The ones in the Accentra, advance and xxv are on top. Either way, not a fan. Have to though, the m55 log sets look pretty good for fake logs. Travis use I make a good one too if I remember correctly.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 18, 2014)

Most people who have a P68 could have done the same job of heating with the P61. Don't worry about a dealer having it in stock either, unless your making an impulsive purchase, which it sounds like you aren't. The unit will be shipped in 3 days. FYI, the 68 is noticeably louder than the 61 when it's feeding. I'm with the 61a crowd, the 68 is usually overkill in nearly every situation I've seen, unless you plan on heating from the basement, a 61 will do the job any 68 will


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## alternativeheat (Jan 18, 2014)

smwilliamson said:


> Most people who have a P68 could have done the same job of heating with the P61. Don't worry about a dealer having it in stock either, unless your making an impulsive purchase, which it sounds like you aren't. The unit will be shipped in 3 days. FYI, the 68 is noticeably louder than the 61 when it's feeding. I'm with the 61a crowd, the 68 is usually overkill in nearly every situation I've seen, unless you plan on heating from the basement, a 61 will do the job any 68 will


This really is my thought as well. I'm one who doesn't mind if on the coldest days the central heat comes on here or there. Day in and day out through average winter and the shoulder season is more my concern. We get very little -0 weather here, it's far more common in Jan to maybe hit single digits at night and low 20's in the day. Then in Feb, teens at night and upper 20's or low 30's in the day. The shoulder brings frost overnight and mid 30's to 40's daytime. And really that can even happen mid winter here. We are just coming off of that in fact and due now to go back into the 20's next week. I'll re-lite the coal stove tonight ( been on oil for one week here).

Anyway, just thinking a P68 is going to idle a lot in the shoulder season, depending on what mode I use I suppose ?


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## alternativeheat (Jan 18, 2014)

smwilliamson said:


> You must have gone to the stove center. I told Rob they looked like antlers! I cannot see the logs in the p series screwing up anything cause they are behind the burn pot in place of the brick. The ones in the Accentra, advance and xxv are on top. Either way, not a fan. Have to though, the m55 log sets look pretty good for fake logs. Travis use I make a good one too if I remember correctly.


I've been to three or four dealers now, two were Harman dealers on Cape ( along with other brands). Just trying to find that perfect stove I guess, and so far it looks like one Harman or another with the P series the top contender on heat output and cleaning ease. The XXV is a beauty to look at but considerably less output. We have time as we have funds coming in that have not arrived yet this winter that will pay for this.

We looked at Napoleons, St Croix and Lennox as well and have ruled those out.


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## Ctcarl (Jan 18, 2014)

My dealer had to order mine as well.also when I spoke to the other harman dealer he said the same thing that it would have to be ordered. I dnt see a problem with that. If they overstocked and don't sell then there stuck  with older models. I like the fact mine was ordered. Mine was made dec 2013 hot off the press!


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## alternativeheat (Jan 18, 2014)

Ctcarl said:


> My dealer had to order mine as well.also when I spoke to the other harman dealer he said the same thing that it would have to be ordered. I dnt see a problem with that. If they overstocked and don't sell then there stuck  with older models. I like the fact mine was ordered. Mine was made dec 2013 hot off the press!



I don't mind ordering the stove either, not sure which one yet. It is good to know the P61a is in stock non the less. It just feels good and in reality, doesn't matter much at this point.


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## chken (Jan 18, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I've been to three or four dealers now, two were Harman dealers on Cape ( along with other brands). Just trying to find that perfect stove I guess, and so far it looks like one Harman or another with the P series the top contender on heat output and cleaning ease. The XXV is a beauty to look at but considerably less output. We have time as we have funds coming in that have not arrived yet this winter that will pay for this.
> 
> We looked at Napoleons, St Croix and Lennox as well and have ruled those out.


I did a survey a few weeks ago that showed only about a dozen people out of almost 90 who answered who burned 3 or more bags on the coldest days of the year. That means about 90% of the people here don't really need a stove larger than a XXV. And some of those who answered were using pellet boilers, not stoves.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 18, 2014)

chken said:


> I did a survey a few weeks ago that showed only about a dozen people out of almost 90 who answered who burned 3 or more bags on the coldest days of the year. That means about 90% of the people here don't really need a stove larger than a XXV. And some of those who answered were using pellet boilers, not stoves.


I must have missed that survey. I'd like to see how it played out, do you have it live/available someplace here ? Additionally, would all those stoves of the surveyed be capable of burning more than 3 bags ( or is that a dumb question)?


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## chken (Jan 18, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> I must have missed that survey. I'd like to see how it played out, do you have it live/available someplace here ? Additionally, would all those stoves of the surveyed be capable of burning more than 3 bags ( or is that a dumb question)?


https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poll-how-many-bags-do-you-burn-on-the-coldest-days.121035/

Well, my survey wasn't all that precise, as you can see. Just based upon what stoves are in people's sig files, I will assume that most stoves can burn more than 3 bags in a day. 120lbs is just 5lbs an hour, or 40k btus. You could throw up another survey asking people what size stove they have. I'd think 3 categories would cover it, <40k btus, 40k to 50k btus, and >50k btus. I'd guess 20%, 40%, 40% as the breakdown here.


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## bocephus (Jan 18, 2014)

Just back to the original post real quick... guess im in the minority here, but I never had problems with my fake logs in my EarthStove. Was TOTALLY unaware of how much distain there is for 'em by other stove users. My Natural Flame EarthStove MP35/50 was, by namesake, ment to be used with these logs. And I've never had a problem with them. Just about the time that they start getting loaded up with ash, is just about the time the entire stove needs shut down and cleaned anyways. Plus, all I've ever had to do to clean them is turn em over and let the ash fall off. I actually took 'ema out for about a week one time, just to see what the stove looked like without them and to find out if cleaning would be easier. To my shock, I found out that my glass got dirtier faster. So to say the least they have been put back in and there they shall stay. Ill put up with a little ash built up on my logs, then to deal with dirty glass like that. BUT.... as stated...sounds like im definitely in the minority on this one (but lucky as well). Just my 2cents fellers! Anyone else with my stove that agrees with my ludacris statement? Lol


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## alternativeheat (Jan 19, 2014)

chken said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poll-how-many-bags-do-you-burn-on-the-coldest-days.121035/
> 
> Well, my survey wasn't all that precise, as you can see. Just based upon what stoves are in people's sig files, I will assume that most stoves can burn more than 3 bags in a day. 120lbs is just 5lbs an hour, or 40k btus. You could throw up another survey asking people what size stove they have. I'd think 3 categories would cover it, <40k btus, 40k to 50k btus, and >50k btus. I'd guess 20%, 40%, 40% as the breakdown here.


Thanks, I see.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 19, 2014)

bocephus said:


> Just back to the original post real quick... guess im in the minority here, but I never had problems with my fake logs in my EarthStove. Was TOTALLY unaware of how much distain there is for 'em by other stove users. My Natural Flame EarthStove MP35/50 was, by namesake, ment to be used with these logs. And I've never had a problem with them. Just about the time that they start getting loaded up with ash, is just about the time the entire stove needs shut down and cleaned anyways. Plus, all I've ever had to do to clean them is turn em over and let the ash fall off. I actually took 'ema out for about a week one time, just to see what the stove looked like without them and to find out if cleaning would be easier. To my shock, I found out that my glass got dirtier faster. So to say the least they have been put back in and there they shall stay. Ill put up with a little ash built up on my logs, then to deal with dirty glass like that. BUT.... as stated...sounds like im definitely in the minority on this one (but lucky as well). Just my 2cents fellers! Anyone else with my stove that agrees with my ludacris statement? Lol


Thanks, interesting take or twist on the general responses. Personally, I don't really care if there is a little ash on the things, as long as the wife is happy when she see's it. If it's a bigger deal than adding a couple of minutes to the cleaning, then I might care but otherwise probably not.

My coal stove has no glass, my viewing area is about 1/4" through my little secondary air hole that actually usually has on size or another a cotter pin stuck in it ! No antlers, logs or sticks in there.


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## Luv2burnPellets (Jan 26, 2014)

I started out with the fake logs.  3 weeks later, they were in the basement.  I was unaware that I needed to put in bricks if I removed the logs.  It took me a day to realize something wasn't quite right and I needed to go back to the dealer for the three bricks to replace the fake logs.  I felt like a fool.  The dealer never discouraged me from buying them, and never offered to give me the bricks at time of purchase.


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## Enigma869 (Jan 26, 2014)

Luv2burnPellets said:


> I started out with the fake logs.  3 weeks later, they were in the basement.  I was unaware that I needed to put in bricks if I removed the logs.  It took me a day to realize something wasn't quite right and I needed to go back to the dealer for the three bricks to replace the fake logs.  I felt like a fool.  The dealer never discouraged me from buying them, and never offered to give me the bricks at time of purchase.


 
As far as I know, the bricks are actually supposed to come with the stove, so I would have insisted that the dealer gave them to me.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 26, 2014)

Luv2burnPellets said:


> I started out with the fake logs.  3 weeks later, they were in the basement.  I was unaware that I needed to put in bricks if I removed the logs.  It took me a day to realize something wasn't quite right and I needed to go back to the dealer for the three bricks to replace the fake logs.  I felt like a fool.  The dealer never discouraged me from buying them, and never offered to give me the bricks at time of purchase.


This is the first I've seen of anything different about bricks with the fake log added. Are you guys saying that these bricks are something different from the three that go rearward of the burn pot ?


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## Luv2burnPellets (Jan 26, 2014)

The fake logs replace the three bricks, not in addition to them.  You have to have logs or bricks to protect the steel plate in the back of the stove.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 26, 2014)

Luv2burnPellets said:


> The fake logs replace the three bricks, not in addition to them.  You have to have logs or bricks to protect the steel plate in the back of the stove.


Ok thanks, I had no clue the logs even went that far back into the stove.

Incidentally, I spoke with an installer today, who installs for the Harman dealer ( different dealer than the one with this information incidentally, about dirty burn with logs). The installer said the logs make no difference in the stove function what so ever, except that you need to be careful when cleaning around them inside there ( scraping the pot mostly). He said if you hit them, they chip and break. That's in line with you guys info in this thread as well.

Even more important to me than that, we discussed the install and future maintenance of both the P52i and ( either really) the P61a. No brainer, I can go straight out the back of my fireplace with the vent on the P61 and rod a brush straight through on cleaning. He showed me the hatch behind the ash bin and said the exit is right behind there, push the brush through and pull it back out close the hatch. Done deal for the vent sweep compared with the 52i..


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## smwilliamson (Jan 30, 2014)

alternativeheat said:


> Ok thanks, I had no clue the logs even went that far back into the stove.
> 
> Incidentally, I spoke with an installer today, who installs for the Harman dealer ( different dealer than the one with this information incidentally, about dirty burn with logs). The installer said the logs make no difference in the stove function what so ever, except that you need to be careful when cleaning around them inside there ( scraping the pot mostly). He said if you hit them, they chip and break. That's in line with you guys info in this thread as well.
> 
> Even more important to me than that, we discussed the install and future maintenance of both the P52i and ( either really) the P61a. No brainer, I can go straight out the back of my fireplace with the vent on the P61 and rod a brush straight through on cleaning. He showed me the hatch behind the ash bin and said the exit is right behind there, push the brush through and pull it back out close the hatch. Done deal for the vent sweep compared with the 52i..


The logs in the advance, accentra, and xxv are different that the one in the P series. P series sid behind the burn pot, the other set hangs over the burn pot. The later doesn't screw up the flame but it will pattern the glass differently than if they were not there.


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## alternativeheat (Jan 30, 2014)

smwilliamson said:


> The logs in the advance, accentra, and xxv are different that the one in the P series. P series sid behind the burn pot, the other set hangs over the burn pot. The later doesn't screw up the flame but it will pattern the glass differently than if they were not there.


The latter I assume being the P series ? Anyway, we have the stove now and she doesn't seem to be stressing over no logs yet. we shall see how this goes after the install. We got the stove with a$100 off coupon from Harman, so $3499 and they threw in a free ash vacuum. But $3499 being reality was still enough to cool her jets a bit I think.


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