# septic ???



## StackedLumber (May 15, 2010)

I was told recently by a Septic pumper that Rid X is a waste of money and you should just use common household baking yeast and it would do the same thing . . .has anyone heard similar or done the same thing and found that it works??  Just wondering if he's telling the truth or trying to keep himself some business!  thx


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## fossil (May 15, 2010)

As just one example, the University of Maryland Extension says this:

*"You do NOT need to add any commercial products or yeast to your system.  Additives do not improve how well your system works. There are always plenty of natural bacteria available to do the job. (They come from YOUR digestive system.) In fact, additives can damage your system by breaking up the sludge and scum layers, causing them to flush out of the tank and clog the infiltration bed. Additives that say "Never worry about pumping your septic tank again" are the worst!"*


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## vvvv (May 15, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> As just one example, the University of Maryland Extension says this:
> 
> *"You do NOT need to add any commercial products or yeast to your system.  Additives do not improve how well your system works. There are always plenty of natural bacteria available to do the job. (They come from YOUR digestive system.) In fact, additives can damage your system by breaking up the sludge and scum layers, causing them to flush out of the tank and clog the infiltration bed. Additives that say "Never worry about pumping your septic tank again" are the worst!"*


bingo! gotta pump the tank so to keep the fieldlines from getting plugged- depends on the flush into the tank & AVOID GARBAGE DISPOSERS from sink


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## loon (May 16, 2010)

been an operator at a sewage plant for the last forever  :roll:  and the guys are right as you don't need anything extra too keep the good bugs doing their job..
but all depends how many people you have in the house, when you should call the truck in.
last did our house 2 years ago and with three of us here after 5 years before that, it did not need it. about 6 inch of sludge on top and flowing fine.
Terry


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## fossil (May 16, 2010)

The one thing I do add to my tank is root killer (Copper Sulfate) occasionally, because I have Juniper trees growing around it that seem to find their way in...and they just LOVE it in there.  The root killer turns 'em into sludge so they get pumped out every couple or three years.  Rick


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## loon (May 16, 2010)

very good point fossil..

when we moved in about 8/9 years ago the first thing i did was cut down a very nice maple that was planted way to close to the system.

my brother in law who installs them was at the house the other day and he told me it is 18 thousand to put a new one in.

so i will be taking care of this one for sure.....


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## rustynut (May 17, 2010)

Here's one for Fossil,
  Was wondering what that bag of copper sulphate was for when we bought the place.
So how much do you use and how do you put it in ?
rn


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## fossil (May 17, 2010)

rustynut said:
			
		

> Here's one for Fossil,
> Was wondering what that bag of copper sulphate was for when we bought the place.
> So how much do you use and how do you put it in ?
> rn



I buy it in 32-ounce plastic containers, and I use two of those each time I treat it (1000 gal. tank).  My system has a cleanout very near the tank, and I just open the cap on the cleanout, turn on 2 or three faucets in the house, and dump the stuff into the water flowing past in the sewer line.  Once or twice a year.  Every system will have a cleanout or two someplace between the dwelling and the tank.  Rick


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## Highbeam (May 17, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Every system will have a cleanout or two someplace between the dwelling and the tank.  Rick



Careful now. New systems must have this cleanout but older ones certainly don't have to. Mine doesn't have any cleanouts anywhere except on the actual tank. 

You do not need to add anything to your tank to help it. You can add plenty of things to hurt it but none help more than your natural deposits. 

Oh and loon, I am sure that you meant to say that you had 6" of scum floating on top as you know that sludge is the dark junk that sets on the bottom. 

I take care not to flush much of anything unnatural into my septic system and in the last two tanks have noticed a near absence of scum since scum is mostly made up of fats, oils, and greases which I don't crap out so they aren't in the tank. Sludge builds up of course as normal. 

No yeast, or rid-X.


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## fossil (May 17, 2010)

Absent a convenient cleanout, the copper sulfate can simply be dumped into a toilet, followed by 3 or 4 flushes.  Rick


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## loon (May 17, 2010)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Oh and loon, I am sure that you meant to say that you had 6" of scum floating on top as you know that sludge is the dark junk that sets on the bottom.



yes sir and thanks

Terry


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## woodsman23 (May 17, 2010)

I have never had mine pumped and it was installed in 97. Never had any issues and there are 2 of us.


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## fossil (May 17, 2010)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> I have never had mine pumped and it was installed in 97. Never had any issues and there are 2 of us.



Well, sooner or later you may well have an issue with it.  When the sludge that inevitably builds up in the bottom of the tank reaches a level so as to enter or restrict the flow of effluent water out to the drainfield, then the system stops functioning correctly.  If the scum layer floating on top of the water becomes so deep as to find the outlet, that's a system failure as well.  It's a simple system, but it really is a little waste treatment system, and ignoring it is just asking for trouble in the long run.  The real purpose of periodic pumping is to get rid of both the scum layer floating on top of the water and the sludge layer that builds up on the bottom.  In order to do that, the entire contents of the tank must be removed.  13 years is a_ long _time to go without pumping the tank.  You might think about getting that done.  Rick


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## LLigetfa (May 18, 2010)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> I have never had mine pumped and it was installed in 97. *Never had any issues *and there are 2 of us.


If you wait until you have issues, it will be too late.  Once the sludge clogs the field, it cannot be unclogged.


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## fossil (May 18, 2010)

Pump the tank = couple hundred bucks.  Replace the drainfield = easily a hundred times that.  Call pumping the tank from time to time cheap drainfield insurance.


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## begreen (May 18, 2010)

woodsman23 said:
			
		

> I have never had mine pumped and it was installed in 97. Never had any issues and there are 2 of us.



You are about 8 yrs late in getting this done. These systems have a finite lifespan. Deferring maintenance shortens it.


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## loon (May 18, 2010)

this is from a company which states every 2 years but i dont think people have to have it done that regular, but if there is a large number of people in the household it might be a good idea.
we had 4 members but now we are down to 3 so i am gonna do the 5 year cleanout. 

me and the farmer across the road just did his again on friday as they were having a bad time with the house stinking,i extended the stink pipe on the one side of the farm house as they had some renovations done over the winter and the fella who did it,only put the pipe up under the soffit and not above the roof line??? we knew that was the problem but the wife was concerned about the tank so i had a guy come out that i know from the plant and had it done. 
theirs was done the same time as mine a couple years ago and there is only the 2 of them in the house and the tank could of waited for the cleanout a few more years easily. they are in their late seventy's and have alot of kids and grandkids visiting regularly.





http://pottyon.com/How_Septic_Systems_Work.html


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## semipro (May 18, 2010)

There are tools to check sludge levels in tanks.  One I believe is called "Sludge Judge".  If you local septic folks can gain access to the tank they can use one to determine whether the tank really needs cleaning or not.  Its just an open-ended clear tube with a remotely operated valve on the bottom.  You stand it upright in the tank, close the bottom valve, pull it out, and you have a representative column of what's in the tank.  Of course, once you've got them out there it may be worth the cost just to have them pump it out.  

Woodsman may be in trouble but it all depends on how much load the system was designed for.  Most systems are designed based on house size or number of bedrooms.  If he's living in a six bedroom house with one other person (and the builders followed code) he may be okay.  I doubt that's the case though.


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## Shari (May 18, 2010)

Well, our 52 yr. old septic system is being replaced by city sewer tomorrow.  Our system is working fine, this is a city mandate due to 'development' in our area.  At a cost of $15,000 for sewer this is NOT a cost we need at this time but we have no choice.

We live in Wisconsin.  State law (I believe) requires pumping every 2 years.

Shari


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## loon (May 18, 2010)

right now the government here in Ontario Canada is debating about taxing our well water.
and also having an inspection program on our septic tanks.  going to cost us alot

and Shari is this what is going on at your place?

http://www.co.outagamie.wi.us/zoning/POWTS/powts_faq.htm


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## the_dude (May 18, 2010)

Shari said:
			
		

> Well, our 52 yr. old septic system is being replaced by city sewer tomorrow.  Our system is working fine, this is a city mandate due to 'development' in our area.  At a cost of $15,000 for sewer this is NOT a cost we need at this time but we have no choice.
> 
> We live in Wisconsin.  State law (I believe) requires pumping every 2 years.
> 
> Shari



In WI (or at least in Jefferson County), you have to have your septic inspected or pumped every 3 years.  It costs under $150 for a mound system to have it pumped.  I don't know what an inspection costs, as I figure at under $150, just have them pump it every 3 years.


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## loon (May 18, 2010)

thats a good idea Semipro.
we use them here at the plant..


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## JustWood (May 18, 2010)

I pump mine once a year and it goes on the neighbors field with permission of course.


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## SolarAndWood (May 18, 2010)

How do I tell if the drywall bucket sized thing sticking up in the lawn is the tank or the d-box?  What should your tank look like if all is well?  If Rid-X and the like don't do anything, why do people buy them?


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## semipro (May 18, 2010)

loon said:
			
		

> thats a good idea Semipro.
> we use them here at the plant..



I think that's the first time I've actually seen one in use.


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## fossil (May 19, 2010)

Semipro said:
			
		

> ...Of course, once you've got them out there it may be worth the cost just to have them pump it out...



Yeah...the only access I have to my tank is to remove a manhole cover in my lawn and pull the tank access cover out from a couple feet below.  At that point, I might just as well have the darned thing pumped, rather than spend any time dipping it to make a decision.  Different tanks have different access points.  Mine has but one.  I think it would be cool to have a "probe" access pipe through which I could use such a tool to monitor what's going on in there, but I'm not gonna pay to have one put in.  Rick


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## fossil (May 19, 2010)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> How do I tell if the drywall bucket sized thing sticking up in the lawn is the tank or the d-box?  What should your tank look like if all is well?  If Rid-X and the like don't do anything, why do people buy them?



I'm guessing, but if the thing you're referring to has a removable top, it's probably tank access.  I don't think distribution boxes often have accesses.  But I'm certainly no expert.  What should the tank look like if all is well?  If you pull the cover and look down inside, you'll see scum floating on water...you can't really tell much by that.  It'll smell, but not as bad as an outhouse (if it does, it's got a problem).  The sludge layer down beneath the water on the bottom might be real thick, or not...you won't be able to see it by just looking down into the tank.  If you see a blanket of roots floating on the scum/water, then your tank is becoming root-bound, and you need to start treating with copper sulfate periodically, and/or get rid of some nearby trees.  Why do people buy stuff they don't need?  Because they're not members of Hearth.com.  Rick


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## SolarAndWood (May 19, 2010)

The locust came down to save the foundation; sounds like the clump of poplar needs to come down to protect the tank and field.  I found a print of the field that says it is 6 trenches 67' in length.  Any idea where that falls in the capacity range?


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## Shari (May 19, 2010)

Not to hijack this thread, but when we purchased our home the septic had to pass an inspection by a certified plumber (required by law here in Wisconsin). Our tank cover is at ground level, not buried like most tank  covers.  The inspector had to put a padlocked chain on it and a sign that says sometime like "WARNING:  Do NOT play in or around".  Our 75 yr. old neighbor wandered over and said, "Gee, I was so enjoying playing in your tank - now where will I play?"  

Shari


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## Shari (May 19, 2010)

loon said:
			
		

> thats a good idea Semipro.
> we use them here at the plant..



Dang - I hate people that ask questions not related to the topic at hand - but I have to ask where can I purchase something like that grill in the picture?  I need it about 6-8" wide and enough sections to span, say about 20'?  What's that grill called and where would I purchase it?

Shari


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## LLigetfa (May 19, 2010)

My septic tank has a baffle in the middle and two access hatches, both of which are buried under the sod.  The outline of the tank becomes evident in a drought as the thin ground above it is the first to dry out and the grass becomes dormant.  I have the location triangulated to the two nearest corners of the house should there not be a drought at the time I need to locate it.


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## loon (May 19, 2010)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> The locust came down to save the foundation; sounds like the clump of poplar needs to come down to protect the tank and field.  I found a print of the field that says it is 6 trenches 67' in length.  Any idea where that falls in the capacity range?



there is quite a bit of info on this site....

http://www.inspectapedia.com/septic/fieldsize.htm


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## loon (May 19, 2010)

Dang - I hate people that ask questions not related to the topic at hand - but I have to ask where can I purchase something like that grill in the picture?  I need it about 6-8" wide and enough sections to span, say about 20'?  What's that grill called and where would I purchase it?

Shari[/quote]

it's aluminum grating that is all around the plant. not a clue where it was purchased?...sorry...

not a great pic but it covers all the channels.






will take a pic off a building today. on my break of course!!


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## SolarAndWood (May 19, 2010)

loon said:
			
		

> SolarAndWood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks loon, that is a perfect format for someone who has never dealt with septic before and will likely save me some headache and cash.


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## benjamin (May 23, 2010)

Dang - I hate people that ask questions not related to the topic at hand - but I have to ask where can I purchase something like that grill in the picture?  I need it about 6-8" wide and enough sections to span, say about 20'?  What's that grill called and where would I purchase it?

Shari[/quote]

Not sure where to get those kind of grills, I have some used steel ones.  Or you could get cast iron ones from Neenah foundry (assuming they're still in business), pretty pricey though, or go with the narrow plastic trench drain system that Menards sells.


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## Highbeam (May 24, 2010)

I have been able to buy all sorts of expanded steel and metal mesh products like that from the same place I buy structural steel. Call a welding shop and ask where you can buy steel.


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## Cowboy Billy (May 24, 2010)

> Dang - I hate people that ask questions not related to the topic at hand - but I have to ask where can I purchase something like that grill in the picture?  I need it about 6-8" wide and enough sections to span, say about 20'?  What's that grill called and where would I purchase it?
> 
> Shari



Shari: Its *metal bar grating*. Also called *deck grating* and or *walkway grating*. You can google any of those and find places to buy it.

Billy


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## Later (May 24, 2010)

Our house is 30 years old and we have owned it for the past 20. We had the tank pumped when we bought the home and every 2 or three years since then. Just two of us here. Last spring we needed to pony up $8,000 for a new dosing tank and leach field. A bit of a surprise to say the least.


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## loon (May 25, 2010)

Retired Guy said:
			
		

> Our house is 30 years old and we have owned it for the past 20. We had the tank pumped when we bought the home and every 2 or three years since then. Just two of us here. Last spring we needed to pony up $8,000 for a new dosing tank and leach field. A bit of a surprise to say the least.



that just doesnt sound right?  never heard of a dosing tank? but thinking its the main tank coming outta the house.

the drying beds can be back fed with water to push out anything thats plugging them.

but you do not want to hear this after the fact...

Terry


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## fossil (May 25, 2010)

Maybe the distribution box downstream of the tank where the piping splits and heads off into the field?  Rick


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## loon (May 25, 2010)

the Government over here made us have raised beds a few years back, but now they say its not a good thing??

http://www.septicdesign.com/septic-lingo/dosing-tank/


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## fossil (May 25, 2010)

Ahh...it's (a dosing tank) part of a pumped septic system...disregard my previous comment.  Rick


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## bjkjoseph (May 25, 2010)

bleach can screw up your system....before we got sewers around here,most people had a separate little dry well for there washer.plus it reduces the amount of water in your septic system.


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## Later (May 25, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Ahh...it's (a dosing tank) part of a pumped septic system...disregard my previous comment.  Rick



It was explained to me that the dosing tank would flood the field using the entire area of it rather than having the septic tank slowly drain into the first few feet of the field, supposedly this would allow for a smaller field and longer life.

 Because of out terrain we were able to use a passive flout system rather than a pump to empty the dosing tank.


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## Highbeam (May 25, 2010)

I have seen some really cool dosing tank designs that work as RG describes. You need some grade but what it is is a tank after the septic tank that fills up to a certain point when a float opens up to create a siphon and suck the whole dosing tank down in one shot. The siphon is then killed and the tank begins to refill again. The flooded drainfield is allowed to drain away for quite some time before the next dose. The drained drainfield rests between doses and oxygen fills the void to keep the aerobic bacteria happier. 

You probably didn't "need" the dosing tank but it was much cheaper than the drainfield work. Concrete tanks are only 500$ or so in my area and the reduction in required field makes up for it to some extent.


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