# My Wiseway non electric stove experience



## mikelcan

Hi,

I had stated that I would do a post once I had some experience with my Wiseway stove.

First some background on my situation.  My house is an 1950's ranch with average insulation for its age. The windows are primarily aluminum framed single pane sliding windows.  The exception is the living room and kitchen where the windows are double pane aluminum non opening windows.  I plan on adding insulation to the attic (blown fiberglass) next month.  The house has electric baseboard heating in all rooms.  We live on the Olympic Peninsula in WA state which has a moderate cool climate and great electric rates at 6.5 cents per Kwh.  Last year with the baseboard we kept my office (I work from home) and living room on a low setting turning them up when we were in those rooms.  So really only one baseboard unit was on at a time.  My wife would also turn on the one in her craft area when in use.  

In looking for a stove we wanted something to back up the electricity during an outage as well as adding to our comfort level without costing more.  I know that in some areas of the country just replacing electricity with pellets is enough.  Since we are conservative in our electric usage we only added 150 a month for Feb last year to our summer cost.  We only have a window AC for one bedroom so the summer cost is what I am using as a baseline.  At 200 a ton for pellets we need to have a bag last 1.5 days to meet that goal.

Stove installation was done by the dealer.  It was the first one he installed in a house. Likewise it was the first one the inspector saw.  The stove was installed with an OAK, which is actually required here in my county so I had no choice on that.  The installer used 3 inch duravent pellet pipe with two 45 degree elbows in the attic to gain clearance from the rafter.  The ceiling joist and rafter did not line completely up with where we positioned the stove.  Total chimney height from the stove to cap is 15 feet (3 - 5 ft sections, 2 45 elbows, cap, stove adapter, ceiling box, roof flashing).  The stove was installed on a modular hearth that provides ember protection and meets the clearances from the manual.

Now for the stove review.

The first thing to note about this stove is it behaves more like a wood stove than a pellet stove.  It seems obvious to state that since there is no auger feeding pellets, no combustion motor, no thermostat, etc the stove behaves like a wood stove where draft is important.  I follow the lighting procedure from the manual that is to use a propane torch, let it run for a minute or so with no pellets to get a draft going, then add pellets and let the torch continue until the temp hits 300 degrees on the flue thermometer at which time I remove the torch and put the burn chamber door on.

At first (I made some adjustments noted later) if I left the stove on high (air damper closed) it would reach max temperature of + 700 degrees on the flue thermometer in about 20 minutes.  If I opened the air damper putting the stove on low when it was at 300 degrees the stove rose to 450 in 20 minutes.  On low it would slowly climb to 600 degrees after 2 - 3 hours.  The pellet usage on high or low was 11 - 14 hours a bag.  I felt this was a bit high and posted on the Wiseway forum and received guidance on either using a barometric damper or ordering the low heat basket.  At this time I have not done either, although I think I will order the basket. 

What I did do however was to make an unrecommended adjustment to my current basket.  I found some old threads on that forum that mentioned that the basket should have 5/16 gaps in it.  When I measured mine one was at 3/8ths the other two were a loose 5/16ths.  So I tightened my gaps up to 5/16ths and have been pleased with the results.  First I noticed that on high the stove will climb to 550 in 20 minutes and only reaches 650 after a couple of hours.  On low the stove stabilizes around 400 degrees.  I can adjust the air so that I can maintain 450, 500, 550.  This is why I stated the stove performs more like a traditional wood stove and not a pellet stove.  The usage seems to be about 2 pounds per hour on low and 3.5 on high now.   Since I was not planning on burning 24x7 I believe that I can meet my stretching a bag over a day and a half.  

I did include a picture since I am aware of the internet adage that without pictures it did not happen.


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## krooser

Thanks for the first hand report...


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## stayfitz

Very cool stove!  Glad to hear you're getting things dialed in.  Keep us posted.


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## Tedinski

Do you have an approximate exhaust temperature?  Without a more traditional heat exchanger and fan, I wonder how much heat is exiting via the flue.


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## mikelcan

The temperature I listed is the flue temperature at the top of the stove.  The thermometer is a probe thermometer built into the stove, not just a magnetic thermometer.  I do not have a way to measure the temperature farther up the chimney since it is a double wall pipe from the stove top to the cap.  I have not yet used my IR thermometer to measure the stove itself.  I will have to dig it out of the tool chest one day.  I might even climb on the roof to get an exit temperature or two one day.

Mike



Tedinski said:


> Do you have an approximate exhaust temperature?  Without a more traditional heat exchanger and fan, I wonder how much heat is exiting via the flue.


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## moey

I'd love to see a hybrid stove someday.


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## The Grintch

So it's a hybrid, convience of pellets but no electricity and potential mechanical failures.

So how does it heat?  Do you see this as a viable heat source?

Why did you choose this over a pellet or wood stove?


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## briansol

I'd love to see one that requires power to get going, but once it's on, it's self contained...   maybe it boils water to turn a steam auger... lol I don't know.  but it seems like once its on, there's energy there that can be used to continue to make more energy.


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## mikelcan

It heats fine.  This week the lows have been low 40's and highs in the mid 50's.  I have run the stove for a few hours in the morning and some evenings.  It will bring the temperature in that room quickly and I have started to play with fans blowing toward that room to distribute the heat.  In four hours I can bring the temperature in my office from the 58 - 60 range to 68 - 70 range.  My office is off the hallway that you see in the picture.  I have only done one burn over 6 hours.  I think that is how I am going to run the stove anyways.  Light it in the morning bring house up to temp shut it down.  Relight if needed in the evening, shut it down at bed time and repeat.  We like the temp in the house to b 68 - 70 any hotter and my wife complains, cooler and I complain.  

I do see it as a viable heat source but at the same time I do not see this as fitting every ones needs.  A lot of people would not like to manually start the stove every time and  would not like the inability to set a thermostat and walk away.  

As to why I chose this over other products.  First I ruled out a wood stove since I do not have time to cut,split,stack, etc firewood nor do I have a lot trees to cut down. That meant buying wood and that is not usually a pleasant situation.  Most sellers think a pick up truck = a cord of wood, that seasoned is cut and split in summer burn in winter, etc.  That got me looking at pellet stoves to begin with last year.  But we had a half day power outage and I realized that most pellet stoves required electricity which was my primary heat method and I would be cold both ways.  I know that battery backups can be installed along with generators but was not sold on that method.  This summer I was at the county fair and happened across this stove in one of the spa/fireplace/bbq/sauna tents.  I liked the "industrial" look and then found out it was non electric.  So I did a little bit of research and decided to give it a try.  

Someone else asked about a pellet stove that was "self generating".  In my research I did see a university design challenge where someone designed a stove that used a combination of battery power and heat generator to power the dc auger and a combustion fan.  Today I could not find that link.  The challenge was design only and I never found where one was successfully built.

Mike



The Grintch said:


> So it's a hybrid, convience of pellets but no electricity and potential mechanical failures.
> 
> So how does it heat?  Do you see this as a viable heat source?
> 
> Why did you choose this over a pellet or wood stove?


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## BrotherBart

Thanks for the info. Somebody asks every year about that stove and now we have a member using one with real life results.


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## john193

Thanks for posting such an extensive first hand experience.


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## moey

The Grintch said:


> So it's a hybrid, convience of pellets but no electricity and potential mechanical failures.
> 
> So how does it heat?  Do you see this as a viable heat source?
> 
> Why did you choose this over a pellet or wood stove?



I would like something that would have a radiant mode ( no power ) and one that is like most pellet stoves currently. It doesnt even have to put out the same btu's just something that could save you when the power is out. Its a pain to deal with a generator during a long term power outage. Of course to meet the requirements of one Im sure you sacrifice with the other.


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## moey

If your electric rates truly are 6.5 KW/hr ( total bill/Kilowatts used) its cheaper to run electricity then pellets. Maybe you left off a delivery fee of some sort though. Something to keep in mind if your running it a lot.


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## The Grintch

It seems like it's the best of both worlds.  Pellet fed but with no electricity or moving parts.

Best of luck with your new toy!


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## Bioburner

moey said:


> If your electric rates truly are 6.5 KW/hr ( total bill/Kilowatts used) its cheaper to run electricity then pellets. Maybe you left off a delivery fee of some sort though. Something to keep in mind if your running it a lot.


 Lowes has a energy comparison chart. If your paying more than 280 a ton for pellets then electricity may be cheaper at 6cent per kill. I payed 188. per ton for premiums this season.


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## moey

Bioburner said:


> Lowes has a energy comparison chart. If your paying more than 280 a ton for pellets then electricity may be cheaper at 6cent per kill. I payed 188. per ton for premiums this season.



I guess its a little higher then I thought a quick plug in of numbers on this chart puts it at about $250 for 6.5c kw/hr. Everyone tilts numbers to favor their argument including me 

www.eia.gov/neic/experts/*heatcalc.xls*‎

This is a neat chart as it lets you really fiddle with numbers.


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## Victorian Stove

Having had a wiseway pellet stove, I am sorry to say I was not impressed. Most of the reviews I see are from dealers selling them and this is the first real year they have been out in the general public. 
It is new and will need refining, hopefully someday this will happen.


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## gfreek

Thanks for the review and the pic...Keep us posted.  Makes sense to have a pellet stove that needs no electricity and no moving parts...with threat of power outages here,  power surges (last one fried the meter), etc...


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## Bioburner

gfreek said:


> Thanks for the review and the pic...Keep us posted.  Makes sense to have a pellet stove that needs no electricity and no moving parts...with threat of power outages here,  power surges (last one fried the meter), etc...


 At least if the meter is fried the power company cant say there was no problem!


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## john193

Victorian Stove said:


> Having had a wiseway pellet stove, I am sorry to say I was not impressed. Most of the reviews I see are from dealers selling them and this is the first real year they have been out in the general public.
> It is new and will need refining, hopefully someday this will happen.


What was your experience like with it?


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## gfreek

Bioburner said:


> At least if the meter is fried the power company cant say there was no problem!



Exactly what happened...deny until I drew my "Ace" card...Again this Wiseway stove makes sense...


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## Bioburner

Had issue with power at our home and they sent teams several times and stated that everything was ok that must be in home. Thing is we have power outside of the home and was having problems. Went to check fence for the horse and saw the trees less than 50ft. from the transformer touching the lines. Took pictures and made a visit. Two days latter crew was trimming the trees and no more power issues for three weeks now. To think I wouldn't have needed close to a grand of UPS's.


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## Victorian Stove

john193 said:


> What was your experience like with it?


The 2nd hopper would smolder and on one unit I sold, a fire made it into the main storage hopper. We tried everything and couldn't get this to work properly or safely. I sold 8 of them and 4 had this problem. Three were not installed yet and the customers returned them for a refund. Just food for thought, do more research and remember, all of the reviews I see are from dealers, hummmm. I had one in my showroom burning and several times it had a hopper fire, or as Wiseway calls it "Burn Back"' We removed it and no longer sell them. There is nothing to prevent the pellet hoppers to catch on fire/smolder. Needs to go back to the drawing board, approach carefully.


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## moey

hee hee "Burn Back" if you have to rename a understood term thats a bit troubling..


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## john193

Victorian Stove said:


> The 2nd hopper would smolder and on one unit I sold, a fire made it into the main storage hopper. We tried everything and couldn't get this to work properly or safely. I sold 8 of them and 4 had this problem. Three were not installed yet and the customers returned them for a refund. Just food for thought, do more research and remember, all of the reviews I see are from dealers, hummmm. I had one in my showroom burning and several times it had a hopper fire, or as Wiseway calls it "Burn Back"' We removed it and no longer sell them. There is nothing to prevent the pellet hoppers to catch on fire/smolder. Needs to go back to the drawing board, approach carefully.


Wow. These sound like serious fire hazards. I though the stove was UL listed. No? Did you talk to them directly about the burn back? What was their response?


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## Victorian Stove

john193 said:


> Wow. These sound like serious fire hazards. I though the stove was UL listed. No? Did you talk to them directly about the burn back? What was their response?


currently it is in communications and they are working on it. and yes, sugar coating the word doesn't make it safer.


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## briansol

wow, thanks for sharing.  I was really considering one of these for my lower level, but not any more.


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## Madcodger

Thanks to OP for posting.  Have also been interested in these given our frequency of long power outages.  We have two pellet stoves now.  First purchased just to warm up a cold family room with lots of glass but it has become our only heat source in shoulder season and a big help in the really cold months.  Our electric rates run about 12.5 cents per KWh and it's a heat pump only house.  I can hear the money draining out when those backup strips turn on.  Thinking of building a new house with very low energy usage and ability to be near net zero in a few years.  One of these may be part of that plan!


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## Victorian Stove

All are gone! Every unit I sold has gone back to my distributor. He said they are going to do some testing with an improved unit, all I can say is they have a lot of proving to get me to sell them again.


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## BrotherBart

Thanks for posting VS. When these have come up in the past I have done a little looking and always came across the hopper fire issue.  And "we are working on it".


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## Victorian Stove

Just an update to all who want to take a chance on a gravity feed pellet stove. I have been in this business for many years and have seen them come and go. The problem is this product has not had enough testing and is a well known problem with the hopper fires. The manufacture and distributors are sugar coating the issue and saying they are working on it and testing a new design. The real issue is they are still selling a product they know has a serious problem. 
I like my customers and don't feel they are test pigs, these need to all go back to the manufacture and not to be sold until they are completely safe, no excuses.


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## pellet powered

Victorian Stove said:


> Just an update to all who want to take a chance on a gravity feed pellet stove. I have been in this business for many years and have seen them come and go. The problem is this product has not had enough testing and is a well known problem with the hopper fires. The manufacture and distributors are sugar coating the issue and saying they are working on it and testing a new design. The real issue is they are still selling a product they know has a serious problem.
> I like my customers and don't feel they are test pigs, these need to all go back to the manufacture and not to be sold until they are completely safe, no excuses.


My experience is much different.  I have a WiseWay and yes I'm a dealer.  However, I have one in my home and it is perfectly safe.  It heats my 1966 Ranch house with single pane windows to 70 degrees without the use of fans and I have had NO "burn back" issues.  I use premium pellets with a high BTU and low ash rating(less than .5%).  The burn back occurs with the use of cheap pellets that burn very slowly and create lots of ash.  The amazing thing about the WiseWay is it does exactly what it claims to do.  It uses no electricity and has no parts to break.  Everything the stove will ever need can be easily addressed by the homeowner, who, by the way, will have heat whenever and where ever  he or she needs it even without power!


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## BrotherBart




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## john193

So does the unit come with an applicable label regarding safety and quality of fuel? Not sure how the average owner would know this. Additionally, does this mean this stove isn't sold in areas that only have access to high ash pellets?


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## Mt Bob

Good one,brother bart!By the way new 1 month old one on epay.


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## BrotherBart

bob bare said:


> Good one,brother bart!By the way new 1 month old one on epay.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/WiseWay-Non-Electric-Gravity-Fed-Pellet-Stove-/261349334526


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## stoveguy2esw

briansol said:


> I'd love to see one that requires power to get going, but once it's on, it's self contained...   maybe it boils water to turn a steam auger... lol I don't know.  but it seems like once its on, there's energy there that can be used to continue to make more energy.


 

ive been kicking an idea around of  a battery started teg regenerated design, little more than concept at this point, haven't figured out the power curve yet, its kinda fun in a torturous way.


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## pellet powered

john193 said:


> So does the unit come with an applicable label regarding safety and quality of fuel? Not sure how the average owner would know this. Additionally, does this mean this stove isn't sold in areas that only have access to high ash pellets?


Yes, the owners manual recommends soft wood pellets, particularly Douglas fir and outlines all proper operating instructions.  I burn Vermont wood pellets and have had good luck with curran softwood pellets and even energex softwood pellets.  The concept or the stove is somewhat similar to a rocket stove and as such needs a pellet that burns quickly.  Additionally, pellets should be 1/2 inch or shorter.  I go through a bag to a bag and a half of pellets a day and again the stove keeps my average, not so well insulated home a balmy 70 degrees.  I haven't even used a fan to circulate heat yet.  As far as areas where premium pellets are available, I can only speak to my experience here in Rutland,vt.  I can only assume that quality softwood pellets are available in other areas.  You may have to look and try different brands but in my opinion, it's worth it for what you get, a pellet stove capable of 58,000 BTUs that only needs pellets to work.  This stove is a completed product that has been 10 years in the making and has EPA certification and a UL listing.  The notion that the manufacturer is using its customers for guinea pigs is ridiculous.


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## Harvey Schneider

stoveguy2esw said:


> ive been kicking an idea around of  a battery started teg regenerated design, little more than concept at this point, haven't figured out the power curve yet, its kinda fun in a torturous way.


I have this image stuck in my head of a stove with a Sterling engine (an external combustion, heat engine) strapped on top. A pulley and line shaft driving the augers and blowers. The cool thing about that arrangement is that all you have to do is hand feed it enough pellets to get the engine to start turning and it becomes self sustaining. Again, theoretically possible but, I don't think anybody is going to go there.
And no, I 'm not related to Rube Goldberg. (Although he is one of my heros)


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## bill3rail

BrotherBart said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WiseWay-Non-Electric-Gravity-Fed-Pellet-Stove-/261349334526



I posted questions about the stove just to see if I get a response.

Why are you selling a one month old stove?  Have you had any hopper 
fires in it?

Bill


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## BrotherBart

They say in the eBay ad that they both work twelve hour shifts and can't be at home to baby sit it and probably will buy a conventional pellet stove.


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## john193

BrotherBart said:


> They say in the eBay ad that they both work twelve hour shifts and can't be at home to baby sit it and probably will buy a conventional pellet stove.


Yes. But prior to that they indicate how it is a breeze to use and doesn't require electricity. Yet they want to go conventional. Hmm...


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## pellet powered

john193 said:


> Yes. But prior to that they indicate how it is a breeze to use and doesn't require electricity. Yet they want to go conventional. Hmm...


The WiseWay Pellet Stove is a wood stove that burns pellets.  Like we all know, a wood stove needs daily attention to run well and burn hot.  I stoke my fire in the WiseWay twice a day to achieve a hot burn.  An electric pellet stove can run for a day or more with no attention.   I can see why someone who is hardly home would prefer an electric pellet stove. However, when the power goes out- no pellet stove.  Also, typical electric pellet stove cleaning takes 30 minutes to up to an hour every couples of weeks or so and can be very laborsome.  Cleaning the WiseWay on any given day takes less than ten minutes and is quite simple and rewarding.


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## john193

pellet powered said:


> The WiseWay Pellet Stove is a wood stove that burns pellets.  Like we all know, a wood stove needs daily attention to run well and burn hot.  I stoke my fire in the WiseWay twice a day to achieve a hot burn.  An electric pellet stove can run for a day or more with no attention.   I can see why someone who is hardly home would prefer an electric pellet stove. However, when the power goes out- no pellet stove.  Also, typical electric pellet stove cleaning takes 30 minutes to up to an hour every couples of weeks or so and can be very laborsome.  Cleaning the WiseWay on any given day takes less than ten minutes and is quite simple and rewarding.


i feel plenty of reward spending 20-30 min a week cleaning mine.  And I dont have to empty my ash pan daily


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## pellet powered

john193 said:


> i feel plenty of reward spending 20-30 min a week cleaning mine.  And I dont have to empty my ash pan daily


Of course!  I have an electric pellet stove too that I have had for 6 years and I like how well it runs after I clean it.  That is rewarding.  However, I can't say that I enjoy cleaning it or that the process is rewarding.  I shut down and clean my WiseWay every few days and it takes less time and considerably less effort.


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## mikelcan

OP here,

Figured I would give an update.  My stove has been performing the same as in my original post.  That is a little higher in pellet usage than I desired for cost savings but not overly excessive.  The heat is good and I have not had any hopper fires.  I do burn the recommended low ash fir pellets however that is the pellet that is predominate in my area.  Three brands are packaged off the same line by the old Atlas plant in Shelton, along with 1 brand packaged in Tacoma are what we seem to have available.  I also shut my stove down after a few hours and do not let it just burn all of the pellets as instructed in the owners manual.  I usually do two burns a day one in the morning and one in the evening shutting down around lunch and bed time.  This is how I am managing my pellet usage to obtain the cost savings I was hoping for.  We just went through one of the coldest weeks and burned a few hours longer during the day on the weekend but still shut it down for a few hours.

 I also will state that I am not a dealer since that might not have been clear after reading some of the other post.  

There was also a question on my electric rates that I would like to answer.  The question was about my "true" KWH rate (Total Bill/ KWH used).  The 6.5 cents is the billing rate per KWH used not total bill.  There is also a $15 a month connection charge that I would pay even if all I had was the meter with nothing connected.  Since I wanted to compare the replacement of baseboard heating with pellet stoves I did not include that in my calculations.  So far for the months of Oct and Nov I did save a little bit of money compared to last year minus the cost of the 3/4 ton that I have burned during that time.  The saving would be enough for a dinner out.  That does not factor in the cost of the stove so it will take a few years to break even.  However the house is generally warmer now then when we used the baseboards last winter.  Add in the fact that I now have a way to heat when we lose power and I am satisfied.  

Mike


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## pellet powered

john193 said:


> i feel plenty of reward spending 20-30 min a week cleaning mine.  And I dont have to empty my ash pan daily


As far as the ash pan, I don't mind.  Overall, I just like the simplicity of the WiseWay.  I always loved the radiant heat of a  wood stove but hated the work and mess of it.  The WiseWay is the best of both for me!


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## BrotherBart

So Rob, which is your primary heat source. The Bixby or the Wiseway?


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## pellet powered

BrotherBart said:


> So Rob, which is your primary heat source. The Bixby or the Wiseway?


The Wiseway.  The Bixby just collects dust at the moment.  Like I said, I enjoy the radiant heat and ease of use.  The truth if the matter is It was about time to clean the bixby when I switched over to the Wiseway and I wasn't looking forward to cleaning for a half hour.  I will shut the Wiseway down in a day or so to clean it.  A simple run or two with the shop vac and I'll re light it. BTW- how do you know I have a Bixby?  I don't think I mentioned that.


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## BrotherBart

Facebook.


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## pellet powered

BrotherBart said:


> Facebook.


Cool.


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## David E Girard Sr

pellet powered said:


> Cool.


Ok, Fellow Burners, I Too Purchased A Wise Way Pellet Stove, I Had A Good First Burn, 650 Degrees, About 14 Hours On A Bag Of Cubex, Went Out Of Town 5 Days , Came Home Fired Up The Wiseway, Found It To Be Lazy,Would Not Go Over 500, Poked And Prodded The Ashes , Went To Bed , Next Morning Went Into My Basement, And Guess What, BURN BACK, It Was Smouldering Right Up To The Bottom Of The Hopper, Temp Was 150 At The Guage, Shut The Fuel Off, Removed The Secondary Burn Pot And Pushed The Black Smoking Pellets Into The Ash Pan, About 6 Times, Before I Got It All, Smoke Detectors Billowing, My Wife Asking Whats Going On, I Think My Wise way Days Are Over, Have A Call Into The Factory, Something About Sealing Them Up??? , Not Convinced, I Think Its Going Back,  ,,,    I Should Have Bought Battery Back Up For My P68, And It Would Have Been Less Money For Sure,, I Got Very Wise In A Different Way, This Stove Is Hooked Up To A 22 Ft Masonary Chimney, With Outside Air,,, Just To Let You Know,, And I Have Been Burning Wood And Pellets For About 30 Years Now,,


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## pellet powered

David E Girard Sr said:


> Ok, Fellow Burners, I Too Purchased A Wise Way Pellet Stove, I Had A Good First Burn, 650 Degrees, About 14 Hours On A Bag Of Cubex, Went Out Of Town 5 Days , Came Home Fired Up The Wiseway, Found It To Be Lazy,Would Not Go Over 500, Poked And Prodded The Ashes , Went To Bed , Next Morning Went Into My Basement, And Guess What, BURN BACK, It Was Smouldering Right Up To The Bottom Of The Hopper, Temp Was 150 At The Guage, Shut The Fuel Off, Removed The Secondary Burn Pot And Pushed The Black Smoking Pellets Into The Ash Pan, About 6 Times, Before I Got It All, Smoke Detectors Billowing, My Wife Asking Whats Going On, I Think My Wise way Days Are Over, Have A Call Into The Factory, Something About Sealing Them Up??? , Not Convinced, I Think Its Going Back,  ,,,    I Should Have Bought Battery Back Up For My P68, And It Would Have Been Less Money For Sure,, I Got Very Wise In A Different Way, This Stove Is Hooked Up To A 22 Ft Masonary Chimney, With Outside Air,,, Just To Let You Know,, And I Have Been Burning Wood And Pellets For About 30 Years Now,,


 first of all,
In my humble opinion and limited knowledge, your 22 foot chimney is way too tall to support a proper draft.  I also would not recommend a basement installation for the WiseWay- that's just me.  The Wiseway works best with an 8 to 15 foot chimney- it does not list that fact in the manual because professional installation is encouraged however, I have seen online resources that state that fact.  If you told them your chimney was 22 feet, they shouldn't have sold it to you or they at least should have given you the facts.  Also, the Wiseway burns softwood pellets best.  They all burn Douglas fir pellets out west where the stove is made.  As for myself and others here in New England, we have had great luck with Vermont Wood Pellets and Barefoot Pellets out of PA.  I don't know where your from so I don't know what brands are available to you.  You could also try adjusting the spacing in the primary burn basket as this will produce more heat and possibly adequate draft.  I spaced my basket so that it just barely fit into the primary chamber and it made a big difference.  So far, the WiseWay has kept my house at 70 degrees without the help of fans or other appliances.  It's been in the teens to low 20s outside.  Burning just barely over a bag of Vermont Wood Pellets a day!  Vermont Wood Pellets are Super Premium pellets with less than .5 percent ash and are made 10 minutes from my house. So, conveniently, I have an ideal fuel for the Wiseway close by.  The main thing here is customer support.  I hope you purchased the stove from a dealer that will help you sort this all out.  I know I did and I don't know where I would be without them!


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## BrotherBart

Who is your dealer pellet powered?


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## pellet powered

BrotherBart said:


> Who is your dealer pellet powered?


Gravity Feed Stoves in White River Junction, VT.  I also sell the stoves in Rutland, VT.


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## saladdin

moey said:


> hee hee "Burn Back" if you have to rename a understood term thats a bit troubling..



In the service we were never allowed to use the word "retreat" it was always "retrograde". I use that word years after I was discharged and it still makes me laugh.


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## Harvey Schneider

saladdin said:


> In the service we were never allowed to use the word "retreat" it was always "retrograde". I use that word years after I was discharged and it still makes me laugh.


It's funny how we substitute a word for one that we don't want to say. After a while everybody knows that the substitute word means the same thing and we have ruined another word (perhaps tainted is a better verb for that). Still, "retrograde" sounds better than "run away" and "burn back" sounds better than "hopper fire", but we all know what it means.


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## David E Girard Sr

pellet powered said:


> first of all,
> In my humble opinion and limited knowledge, your 22 foot chimney is way too tall to support a proper draft.  I also would not recommend a basement installation for the WiseWay- that's just me.  The Wiseway works best with an 8 to 15 foot chimney- it does not list that fact in the manual because professional installation is encouraged however, I have seen online resources that state that fact.  If you told them your chimney was 22 feet, they shouldn't have sold it to you or they at least should have given you the facts.  Also, the Wiseway burns softwood pellets best.  They all burn Douglas fir pellets out west where the stove is made.  As for myself and others here in New England, we have had great luck with Vermont Wood Pellets and Barefoot Pellets out of PA.  I don't know where your from so I don't know what brands are available to you.  You could also try adjusting the spacing in the primary burn basket as this will produce more heat and possibly adequate draft.  I spaced my basket so that it just barely fit into the primary chamber and it made a big difference.  So far, the WiseWay has kept my house at 70 degrees without the help of fans or other appliances.  It's been in the teens to low 20s outside.  Burning just barely over a bag of Vermont Wood Pellets a day!  Vermont Wood Pellets are Super Premium pellets with less than .5 percent ash and are made 10 minutes from my house. So, conveniently, I have an ideal fuel for the Wiseway close by.  The main thing here is customer support.  I hope you purchased the stove from a dealer that will help you sort this all out.  I know I did and I don't know where I would be without them!


Ok, I Hear What You Are Saying, I Shot From The Hip And Should Have Thought A Little First, I Did Do Some Research And Found First What You Said, I Did Widen The Basket Some, Made A Big Difference, I Have A Draft Regulator Coming To Adress The Chimney , I Am Burning It Today And I Will Say Its The Only Source Of Heat On And My House Is At 72 Degrees Upstairs, I Am Going To Shorten My OAK As Well, As Far As Pellets Go I Also See That They Are  Making Or Already Have Made A Hardwood Pellet Basket ,My Dealer Had Limited Knowledge Of This Stove, I Did Research It A lot Before I Bought It, I Believe I Can And Will Make It Work For My Application , Sorry If  Offended You , Like I Said , Shot From The Hip, I Do Believe In These Units, I Am Located In The Mt Snow Region Of Vermont ,Knowledge  Is Power And I Was Lacking Some, I Think I Will Be Sorting This Out Myself,,,,,,,,,


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## tjnamtiw

Since I am always a sucker for the oddball, unconventional stuff, I've been following the Wiseway posts and their forum.  One thing that struck me as curious was the fact that the hopper lid is not gasketed and sealed, which would prevent burn back since there would be no oxygen up there.  My old gravity fed coal stove, a Franco Belge, has a heavy cast iron lid with a gasket.  The coal ran down and out onto the burning bed of coal as the bed burned down.  No possibility of a burn back.  Why wouldn't they do the same thing to the WiseWay?

To the OP > In your photo, you show the fire extinguisher next to the stove. NEVER put it next to where you expect a fire!  You don't want to run INTO the fire to GET the extinguisher!  Put it across the room, so you can run to the fire WITH the extinguisher.


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## David E Girard Sr

tjnamtiw said:


> Since I am always a sucker for the oddball, unconventional stuff, I've been following the Wiseway posts and their forum.  One thing that struck me as curious was the fact that the hopper lid is not gasketed and sealed, which would prevent burn back since there would be no oxygen up there.  My old gravity fed coal stove, a Franco Belge, has a heavy cast iron lid with a gasket.  The coal ran down and out onto the burning bed of coal as the bed burned down.  No possibility of a burn back.  Why wouldn't they do the same thing to the WiseWay?
> 
> To the OP > In your photo, you show the fire extinguisher next to the stove. NEVER put it next to where you expect a fire!  You don't want to run INTO the fire to GET the extinguisher!  Put it across the room, so you can run to the fire WITH the extinguisher.


Funny, I Thought The Same Thing, I Sealed Some Openings Around The Feed Sleeve, And Added A Hopper Gasket ,Actually From A Harman P68, And So Far So Good, They Are Supposed To Be Sealing Up The New Ones ?? Great Stove, It Is 72 In My Home , Its -1 Outside , Its The Only Heat On Right Now,, And Its In The Basement,,


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## pellet powered

David E Girard Sr said:


> Ok, I Hear What You Are Saying, I Shot From The Hip And Should Have Thought A Little First, I Did Do Some Research And Found First What You Said, I Did Widen The Basket Some, Made A Big Difference, I Have A Draft Regulator Coming To Adress The Chimney , I Am Burning It Today And I Will Say Its The Only Source Of Heat On And My House Is At 72 Degrees Upstairs, I Am Going To Shorten My OAK As Well, As Far As Pellets Go I Also See That They Are  Making Or Already Have Made A Hardwood Pellet Basket ,My Dealer Had Limited Knowledge Of This Stove, I Did Research It A lot Before I Bought It, I Believe I Can And Will Make It Work For My Application , Sorry If  Offended You , Like I Said , Shot From The Hip, I Do Believe In These Units, I Am Located In The Mt Snow Region Of Vermont ,Knowledge  Is Power And I Was Lacking Some, I Think I Will Be Sorting This Out Myself,,,,,,,,,


No, you did not offend me.  I just want to make sure the FACTS are out there as this is an amazing stove.


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## pellet powered

David E Girard Sr said:


> Funny, I Thought The Same Thing, I Sealed Some Openings Around The Feed Sleeve, And Added A Hopper Gasket ,Actually From A Harman P68, And So Far So Good, They Are Supposed To Be Sealing Up The New Ones ?? Great Stove, It Is 72 In My Home , Its -1 Outside , Its The Only Heat On Right Now,, And Its In The Basement,,


That's right.  All of the current stoves out there are sealed as far as I am aware.  All of the stoves I have installed were sealed.  I'm not sure why yours wasn't.


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## pellet powered

David E Girard Sr said:


> Ok, I Hear What You Are Saying, I Shot From The Hip And Should Have Thought A Little First, I Did Do Some Research And Found First What You Said, I Did Widen The Basket Some, Made A Big Difference, I Have A Draft Regulator Coming To Adress The Chimney , I Am Burning It Today And I Will Say Its The Only Source Of Heat On And My House Is At 72 Degrees Upstairs, I Am Going To Shorten My OAK As Well, As Far As Pellets Go I Also See That They Are  Making Or Already Have Made A Hardwood Pellet Basket ,My Dealer Had Limited Knowledge Of This Stove, I Did Research It A lot Before I Bought It, I Believe I Can And Will Make It Work For My Application , Sorry If  Offended You , Like I Said , Shot From The Hip, I Do Believe In These Units, I Am Located In The Mt Snow Region Of Vermont ,Knowledge  Is Power And I Was Lacking Some, I Think I Will Be Sorting This Out Myself,,,,,,,,,


BTW- Nice to make your acquaintance fellow Vermonter!  If hardwood is your only option, you can try the hardwood basket.  I have one if you want it.  Personally, I think finding a super premium softwood is the much better option.


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## tjnamtiw

I hope they are putting latches on the hopper cover to pull it tightly down onto the gasket because just sitting it on, IMHO, wouldn't seal it well enough to stop a possible natural draft.


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## webbie

I'd say the proof will be in the pudding when 500 or more are out there in various installations and 95% of them work fine.....might take some time, though.....

Until then, it's going to be a learning experience. Trying to regulate chimney draft (or height, which only relates to one small part of draft) is a VERY difficult proposition! Way back when the first catalytic stoves were sold, I talked to the engineers that designed them...and they also said that a certain exact range of draft was required to make them work best. Of course, when they didn't work perfectly, they didn't burn back! So that's a different story....

Even the same chimney will vary vastly in draft based on the weather, the wind, the stack temp and other factors. This is one major reason that most pellet stoves use fans...they can regulate the draft....

Sure, it's possible that a stove like this can and will work. But it's not as simple as it sounds.


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## pellet powered

webbie said:


> I'd say the proof will be in the pudding when 500 or more are out there in various installations and 95% of them work fine.....might take some time, though.....
> 
> Until then, it's going to be a learning experience. Trying to regulate chimney draft (or height, which only relates to one small part of draft) is a VERY difficult proposition! Way back when the first catalytic stoves were sold, I talked to the engineers that designed them...and they also said that a certain exact range of draft was required to make them work best. Of course, when they didn't work perfectly, they didn't burn back! So that's a different story....
> 
> Even the same chimney will vary vastly in draft based on the weather, the wind, the stack temp and other factors. This is one major reason that most pellet stoves use fans...they can regulate the draft....
> 
> Sure, it's possible that a stove like this can and will work. But it's not as simple as it sounds.


Thanks Webbie!  I agree.  What I believe will make or break this learning curve is customer support.  Just like those catalytic stoves you mentioned, p


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## BrotherBart

What makes pellet stoves work is the safety features that shut it down when things go to hell in a handbasket. What in the Wiseway handles that?


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## pellet powered

Thanks Webbie! I agree. What I believe will make or break this learning experience is customer support. Just like those catalytic wood stoves you mentioned (I grew up with one), professional installation is a must.  As for the WiseWay, It's important for the company selling it to have a working knowledge of the product as it is so new and different.  For example, as you said, draft is effected by weather, wind and stack temperature.  The average customer when faced with these challenges, wouldn't necessarily know what to do, especially if they have never had experience with a wood stove.  They might get discouraged quickly and give up altogether if there wasn't a dealer to support them and fix the issues they are faced with.  I believe most, if not all issues will never occur if the stove is professionally installed.  Alas,  as a dealer, I have access to a tool chest full of solutions. For one, simple adjustments can be made to the stove's primary burn basket to increase stove temperature thus increasing flue temperature.  There are also products like the Vacu Stack  that can induce draft and eliminate the effects that wind and weather have on it.  In most cases, the Vacu Stack is unnecessary but it is a solution to wind turbulence.  The non electric pellet stove is here and I think the WiseWay is going to prove itself a winner based on the performance that has already been proven in the field and the dealer network that has been established to support it and it's owners.  Who knows, the pudding may come along sooner than you think


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## pellet powered

C


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## tjnamtiw

The question of what methods are in place to shut the stove down in case of a runaway or other problem is a real world question!  It seems to me that for a non-electric stove, the solution must also be non-electric.  I would propose a fusible link at a strategic area of the hopper that would release a CO2 or Ansul bottle to kill the fire.  Pretty simple but effective. 
I read about minute adjustments in the width between the bars in the burn pot making huge differences in burn rates and I wonder if this should be an area of focus to eliminate problems in the field.  Perhaps rather than parallel bars that can get bent or warped into misalignment, the burn grate should really be a grid where cross bars would hold everything in alignment.


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## SmokeyTheBear

Barometric Damper maybe?


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## stoveguy2esw

i wonder if one could rig a mechanical fuel interrupter that allowed fuel to be displenced in batches so that the ful travel of fuel wouldnt be constant, so that it would release say 10 lbs to the bottom and burn it then release 10 more. kinda preventing a constant trail of fuel all the way up


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## pellet powered

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Barometric Damper maybe?


All the WiseWay stoves I have installed have been installed with barametric dampers.  It is my understanding that this is highly recommended to all stove dealers and owners.  A traditional damper is discouraged by the manufacturer so the barametric is the only logical solution.  Any dealer not passing this information along is to blame for any runaways.  Also regarding hopper fires, all current stoves being shipped from the manufacturer now have seals installed so that there is no oxygen in the hopper area, thus eliminating the possibility.  The reason why that was not done originally, and this is direct from the manufacturer, is that they never had a burn back issue until the stoves were sold on the east coast and people started burning cheap hardwood pellets in the stove.  Softwood pellets and sealed hoppers make things so much simpler. Also, by design the hopper area was originally left unsealed so that a stove owner could easily remove the hopper and heat shield and install a second water heating jacket on the back side of the stove. Of cours, Once that was done, the hopper and heat shield is reinstalled.  Now the owner will have to reseal the hopper area as well.


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## Woodsmythe

I joined the ranks of Wiseway owners about a month and a half ago. Overall I'd say I'm happy, maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10. We have an circa 1830 approx. 3000 sqft.brick farmhouse in Northern Vermont we are constantly improving. During our first winter the oil bill exceeded $1,000/ month December through February for hydronic baseboard. Something had to be done We have run a pellet stove in the basement and one on the first floor, fairly centrally located, for about 4 years. . We spend a lot of time in the same room with the first floor pellet stove and the noise problem was significant. When the downstairs stove ( an Austro-Flamm Integra) required another very expensive repair, the Wiseway, with no discontinued circuit boards and expensive sensors, seemed like the way to go. The set up was simple. It was a one for one swap with the stove we had on the first floor (it and it's noise moved to the basement). The Wiseway does have quite a learning curve to operate.  I work from home and good and bad I'm always trying to "dial it in". It is higher maintenance than the other two stoves. It runs best clean, so while you may not have to clean it as often as I see fit the performance suffers.

For the most part our stoves are running 24/7 and I clean the Wiseway daily (a whisker more than a bag a day). Our former consumption was about 8 tons/ year. It's looking like the Wiseway will be helping reduce that amount. The heat production seems fine. Without a blower, we're playing with fans to move the heat around. The burn back issue is significant although experience with how the stove works will help with this. We have only had some smoke, no fires. I have found that balancing the "after-fire" air of the chimney and the "pre-fire" air of all the many in take points, is the key to smoke free operation. The Wiseway appears to take in to much "pre-fire" air and gives heat and smoke the tendency to rise into the pellet supply. In the manual Wiseway mentions adjusting the (primary air flow{ their term ], pre-fire air { my term } by moving the secondary burn plate out for more air, in for less. The problem with this is there is an intake port, that can be attached to an outside air supply, that enters this area at 90 degrees causing all sorts of turbulence and to much input. In my situation I can't access outside air and found if I place a pellet pipe clean out cap over the intake port it creates much better linear flow of pre-fire air over the burn basket, makes the secondary burn plate adjustment much more effective, and tips the balance drawing smoke and heat down towards the burn basket and up the chimney. Sorry for the length of this. Looking forward to questions.


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## begreen

Thanks for the helpful tips and thoughts Woodsmythe and welcome.


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## briansol

Serious question:

Do you think your lower pellet consumption is due to daily clean out tasks and having to fiddle with it to get it burning again? 

Have you marked oil consumption to match while you are in down time mode?


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## Woodsmythe

It seems the stove gives off more heat per unit of pellets but, due to the nature of the draft, as it loads up with ash it restricts the exhaust draft as well as the input draft thereby, reducing the intensity of the burn and the heat given off. The cleaning is simple, taking only 10 or 15 minutes, including relighting. One drawback is the lag time from shutting off the pellet supply, to the stove being out, is around an hour. Most days the oil will only run to do our hot water a little more than that on a day like today at 10 below and windy.


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## pellet powered

Woodsmythe said:


> I joined the ranks of Wiseway owners about a month and a half ago. Overall I'd say I'm happy, maybe a 5 or 6 out of 10. We have an circa 1830 approx. 3000 sqft.brick farmhouse in Northern Vermont we are constantly improving. During our first winter the oil bill exceeded $1,000/ month December through February for hydronic baseboard. Something had to be done We have run a pellet stove in the basement and one on the first floor, fairly centrally located, for about 4 years. . We spend a lot of time in the same room with the first floor pellet stove and the noise problem was significant. When the downstairs stove ( an Austro-Flamm Integra) required another very expensive repair, the Wiseway, with no discontinued circuit boards and expensive sensors, seemed like the way to go. The set up was simple. It was a one for one swap with the stove we had on the first floor (it and it's noise moved to the basement). The Wiseway does have quite a learning curve to operate.  I work from home and good and bad I'm always trying to "dial it in". It is higher maintenance than the other two stoves. It runs best clean, so while you may not have to clean it as often as I see fit the performance suffers.
> 
> For the most part our stoves are running 24/7 and I clean the Wiseway daily (a whisker more than a bag a day). Our former consumption was about 8 tons/ year. It's looking like the Wiseway will be helping reduce that amount. The heat production seems fine. Without a blower, we're playing with fans to move the heat around. The burn back issue is significant although experience with how the stove works will help with this. We have only had some smoke, no fires. I have found that balancing the "after-fire" air of the chimney and the "pre-fire" air of all the many in take points, is the key to smoke free operation. The Wiseway appears to take in to much "pre-fire" air and gives heat and smoke the tendency to rise into the pellet supply. In the manual Wiseway mentions adjusting the (primary air flow{ their term ], pre-fire air { my term } by moving the secondary burn plate out for more air, in for less. The problem with this is there is an intake port, that can be attached to an outside air supply, that enters this area at 90 degrees causing all sorts of turbulence and to much input. In my situation I can't access outside air and found if I place a pellet pipe clean out cap over the intake port it creates much better linear flow of pre-fire air over the burn basket, makes the secondary burn plate adjustment much more effective, and tips the balance drawing smoke and heat down towards the burn basket and up the chimney. Sorry for the length of this. Looking forward to questions.


I was glad to read that last sentence as I have some:  Have you tried to open up the basket in the primary burn chamber?  Alot of the trouble it sounds like you're having sounds like the trouble I had when I first purchased my WiseWay.  I stretched the basket out EVENLY so it just barely fits back in the primary and now I have no draft issues. That's all the "dialing in" I had to do.  Otherwise, I empty it once a day and run it hot twice a day- just like you would with any woodstove.  The Wiseway is just like a woodstove with way less hassle and mess!   Also, the ash build up is likely a pellet issue.  What brand are you burning?  BTW- I agree that the WiseWay uses less pellets.  I was burning a solid bag and a half last year with a conventional pellet stove.  I'm down to just a hair over a bag a day now.


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## kenstogie

I recently purchased a Pellet stove and at the time considered getting the Wiseway but didn't want to be the person figuring out how it worked... especially with fire involved.  Needless to say I am glad to see others have bought them, LOVE the idea of a unit that "runs by itself" and may very well get one some day.  I am watching threads like these carefully.


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## Wiseway pellet stoves

Victorian Stove said:


> The 2nd hopper would smolder and on one unit I sold, a fire made it into the main storage hopper. We tried everything and couldn't get this to work properly or safely. I sold 8 of them and 4 had this problem. Three were not installed yet and the customers returned them for a refund. Just food for thought, do more research and remember, all of the reviews I see are from dealers, hummmm. I had one in my showroom burning and several times it had a hopper fire, or as Wiseway calls it "Burn Back"' We removed it and no longer sell them. There is nothing to prevent the pellet hoppers to catch on fire/smolder. Needs to go back to the drawing board, approach carefully.



Yes we had a issue with the first stoves going to the east coast. We had been selling out here on the west coast for a year and a half with no problems at all. All our pellets out here were Douglas fir. the ash is much lighter and fed from the secondary burn chamber to the ash tray with no problems. some of the hardwood pellets ash was more solid and would over time build up in the secondary burn chamber choking off the air supply  and  keep the pellets from feeding into the secondary burn chamber causing smoldering up the feed tube.  When we heard of this we spent all our time trying to find a cure for this.  first we directed our distributors to contact our dealers and have them contact us so we could send out seal kits free of charge and asked them to seal all the stoves they had sold and we would pay them for there time. If there was no oxygen there could not be any smoldering. Then we did many hours of testing with hardwood pellets some of our dealers sent from the east coast. Over a three week period we made several modifications to the stove. a different secondary burn plate with slots in it instead of holes and changed the angle of the secondary burn chamber from 45 degrees to 20 degrees so all the pellets from the primary burn chamber would fall all the way to the secondary burn plate. I don't know if this dealer was contacted by the distributor or not but again there can't be any smoldering up the feed tube if there is no oxygen he obviously did't seal the stoves or not properly if he did. If there is anyone with a Wiseway  that is not sealed contact Matt@wisewaypelletstoves.com and he will send you a seal kit free of charge along with instructions  . the customers that have sealed there stoves are doing fine .  I am very sorry for the troubles some of our cutomers on the east coast were having with the wiseway stove(out of the 300+ stoves we sold on the east coast only about 20 had problems) I'm not taking those 20 lightly  just putting things in prospective The 20 stoves were either fixed or they had there money returned to them. Wiseway  has a 5 year guarantee  more than any other pellet stove on the market  but in bad we find good and we now have a stove that burns hard and soft wood pellets very well and will be testing with Omni in the next 2 weeks.( when we change a stove it has to be retested before we can sell it)  you will find that all pellet stoves have a problem with ash build up with some hardwood pellets. Sorry for such a long post but wanted  people to here from us directly
Thanks
Gary
Inventor of the Wiseway pellet stove


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## mikelcan

OP here.  I was asked about an update and if I were planning on using the stove this year in a PM.  I responded to that but will also post it here.  

I am still planning on using the wiseway this year. As for as a review. I burned 2 1/2 tons of pellets last year. I found that I got about 20 - 22 hours out of a bag when I burnt on low after the startup. I always let it get to about 600 before I would open the air control. I found that if I opened it around 350 or 400 it would cool off and settle around 250. If I waited it would settle around 350 - 400 which is where I wanted it. I work from home and fell into a routine where I would start the stove after lunch and let it run until it was out. I would then clean the ash tray and secondary burn plate and restart the stove. Weekly I would scrape out the burn tube as far as I could reach (to the first turn) using a spatula. I could see "fly ash" through the air control holes. All in all it heated fine for me and I had no real issues. I wish I would have waited to buy until this year and I would have bought one with the window. One of my wife's complaints is that you can not see the fire. 

I however did not save as much money as I had hoped - only a couple hundred dollars which makes the pay back several years. But that has as much to do with my cheap electric rates and the fact that the previous winter we only turned on the baseboard heaters in rooms as we used them with a min temp of 50 to keep rooms at least bearable.  By my figures year over year minus the cost of pellets I saved $219.  

Mike


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## velvetfoot

But you're looking good if there's a power outage, right?


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## UNhappyMagnumOwner

mikelcan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had stated that I would do a post once I had some experience with my Wiseway stove.
> 
> First some background on my situation.  My house is an 1950's ranch with average insulation for its age. The windows are primarily aluminum framed single pane sliding windows.  The exception is the living room and kitchen where the windows are double pane aluminum non opening windows.  I plan on adding insulation to the attic (blown fiberglass) next month.  The house has electric baseboard heating in all rooms.  We live on the Olympic Peninsula in WA state which has a moderate cool climate and great electric rates at 6.5 cents per Kwh.  Last year with the baseboard we kept my office (I work from home) and living room on a low setting turning them up when we were in those rooms.  So really only one baseboard unit was on at a time.  My wife would also turn on the one in her craft area when in use.
> 
> In looking for a stove we wanted something to back up the electricity during an outage as well as adding to our comfort level without costing more.  I know that in some areas of the country just replacing electricity with pellets is enough.  Since we are conservative in our electric usage we only added 150 a month for Feb last year to our summer cost.  We only have a window AC for one bedroom so the summer cost is what I am using as a baseline.  At 200 a ton for pellets we need to have a bag last 1.5 days to meet that goal.
> 
> Stove installation was done by the dealer.  It was the first one he installed in a house. Likewise it was the first one the inspector saw.  The stove was installed with an OAK, which is actually required here in my county so I had no choice on that.  The installer used 3 inch duravent pellet pipe with two 45 degree elbows in the attic to gain clearance from the rafter.  The ceiling joist and rafter did not line completely up with where we positioned the stove.  Total chimney height from the stove to cap is 15 feet (3 - 5 ft sections, 2 45 elbows, cap, stove adapter, ceiling box, roof flashing).  The stove was installed on a modular hearth that provides ember protection and meets the clearances from the manual.
> 
> Now for the stove review.
> 
> The first thing to note about this stove is it behaves more like a wood stove than a pellet stove.  It seems obvious to state that since there is no auger feeding pellets, no combustion motor, no thermostat, etc the stove behaves like a wood stove where draft is important.  I follow the lighting procedure from the manual that is to use a propane torch, let it run for a minute or so with no pellets to get a draft going, then add pellets and let the torch continue until the temp hits 300 degrees on the flue thermometer at which time I remove the torch and put the burn chamber door on.
> 
> At first (I made some adjustments noted later) if I left the stove on high (air damper closed) it would reach max temperature of + 700 degrees on the flue thermometer in about 20 minutes.  If I opened the air damper putting the stove on low when it was at 300 degrees the stove rose to 450 in 20 minutes.  On low it would slowly climb to 600 degrees after 2 - 3 hours.  The pellet usage on high or low was 11 - 14 hours a bag.  I felt this was a bit high and posted on the Wiseway forum and received guidance on either using a barometric damper or ordering the low heat basket.  At this time I have not done either, although I think I will order the basket.
> 
> What I did do however was to make an unrecommended adjustment to my current basket.  I found some old threads on that forum that mentioned that the basket should have 5/16 gaps in it.  When I measured mine one was at 3/8ths the other two were a loose 5/16ths.  So I tightened my gaps up to 5/16ths and have been pleased with the results.  First I noticed that on high the stove will climb to 550 in 20 minutes and only reaches 650 after a couple of hours.  On low the stove stabilizes around 400 degrees.  I can adjust the air so that I can maintain 450, 500, 550.  This is why I stated the stove performs more like a traditional wood stove and not a pellet stove.  The usage seems to be about 2 pounds per hour on low and 3.5 on high now.   Since I was not planning on burning 24x7 I believe that I can meet my stretching a bag over a day and a half.
> 
> I did include a picture since I am aware of the internet adage that without pictures it did not happen.


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## UNhappyMagnumOwner

I was just wondering if this stove has gotten any better our local store has picked up the line and we were wondering if it is better than our Baby Magnum Country side. The Baby needs about $2000 to run solar in these parts


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## Tails1

I personally wouldn't buy one as I think they are over priced but that's me. I see your in Canada and you have a dealer selling them up here now? How much in Canadian money are they?


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## UNhappyMagnumOwner

Tails1 said:


> I personally wouldn't buy one as I think they are over priced but that's me. I see your in Canada and you have a dealer selling them up here now? How much in Canadian money are they?


About the same price as the Baby but if it run's quiet and without electric. I could sleep through the house burning down! much better


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## Tails1

Tails1 said:


> I personally wouldn't buy one as I think they are over priced but that's me. I see your in Canada and you have a dealer selling them up here now? How much in Canadian money are they?



A quick search shows Home Hardware selling them now at 2599.00 Canadian. Must be ordered online. For that kind of money one can consider a Harman which is the top of the line. I wish they would start carrying Serenitys as I would buy one of those over one of these.


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## UNhappyMagnumOwner

The local Kent store has them for $1900. Canadian do help solve problems and back what they sell


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## cogger

UNhappyMagnumOwner said:


> The local Kent store has them for $1900. Canadian do help solve problems and back what they sell


$1,500 Tractor Supply. The inventor seems to have sold out to USSC, which list on their website out of stock. After researching 6 hours today I have decided to buy an try. My old NEw englander pellet stove has seen it days and needs a overhaul, Both blowers are shot.


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## MacSierra

cogger said:


> $1,500 Tractor Supply. The inventor seems to have sold out to USSC, which list on their website out of stock. After researching 6 hours today I have decided to buy an try. My old NEw englander pellet stove has seen it days and needs a overhaul, Both blowers are shot.



Tractor Supply here in Minden Nevada is 1,605 + freight and tax which puts it over 1800.00. The Wiseway is manufactured in china now and that brought the price down a bit.. Don't know if that's good or bad...

I have two 10 year old Breckwell's and just today had to cannibalize the old one to keep the newer one going.. LOL.. The new stoves in the Breckwell price range are identical to the Breckwell's I have now so it's easier to buy parts and keep at least one going. Better blower motors, augers and boards are available as replacements now as well.. 

I'm looking for another stove to replace the one I pulled out of service last winter and maybe the Wiseway would work as I have a vertical 4" pellet flue already in place in a large room with plenty of air available. Without forced induction clean hot burning pellets are a must from what I have been reading in the Wiseway's. A basic understanding of combustion physics is also helpful using them... Also, US Stove has said they made some improvement tweaks to the #1949 unit..  Home Depot here has Wiseway's for 1605.00 and free freight + tax..


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## Deezl Smoke

MacSierra said:


> Tractor Supply here in Minden Nevada is 1,605 + freight and tax which puts it over 1800.00. The Wiseway is manufactured in china now and that brought the price down a bit.. Don't know if that's good or bad...
> 
> I have two 10 year old Breckwell's and just today had to cannibalize the old one to keep the newer one going.. LOL.. The new stoves in the Breckwell price range are identical to the Breckwell's I have now so it's easier to buy parts and keep at least one going. Better blower motors, augers and boards are available as replacements now as well..
> 
> I'm looking for another stove to replace the one I pulled out of service last winter and maybe the Wiseway would work as I have a vertical 4" pellet flue already in place in a large room with plenty of air available. Without forced induction clean hot burning pellets are a must from what I have been reading in the Wiseway's. A basic understanding of combustion physics is also helpful using them... Also, US Stove has said they made some improvement tweaks to the #1949 unit..  Home Depot here has Wiseway's for 1605.00 and free freight + tax..



 In my personal experience, it is not the fact that is made in China that matters. It is how the factories in China are ordered to make them by the American and European companies that matters. China can make some fine products when and if they are ordered to. Perhaps, similar to the Castle brand, the Wiseway is ordered to meet realistic quality? Time and forum discussion will tell.


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## JRemington

I had a customer come in the store yesterday who had bought one at Tractor Supply and couldn't get it to work. His chimney he installed went up three feet and 90d out the wall and then a 90 up one foot. He has cathedral ceilings so based on common sense I told him to go straight up 10 feet inside and then just one 90 and go out one foot and cap it. Should that chimney work for him? It appears there is no customer service with these stoves.


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## Mt Bob

JRemington said:


> I had a customer come in the store yesterday who had bought one at Tractor Supply and couldn't get it to work. His chimney he installed went up three feet and 90d out the wall and then a 90 up one foot. He has cathedral ceilings so based on common sense I told him to go straight up 10 feet inside and then just one 90 and go out one foot and cap it. Should that chimney work for him? It appears there is no customer service with these stoves.


It might burn ok,but IMHO should be installed same as a wood stove,flue above roof line,as it is a natural draft stove.I think of them as wood stoves you cannot put wood in.


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## Landspeeder

My propane furnace is down for repairs, so being in Canada and its cold here I looked into a main source. The wiseway stove is the one we picked. They are quite expensive up here but living near the MI border I  went to a Tsc store and got one for $1300. Even at 30% on the dollar it's a super deal. Got some 3inch pipe etc. and hooked it up.  It's been a month, my place is 2200 sq feet and the stove is holding at 18c.. It's been down to 22c outside... At that point I added a couple whole room radiator heaters to help. You have to learn this stove, I've had it go out, run at 350, smoke a bit etc. Main thing is to clean it,  I pull the chimney pipe off the top and put small diameter vac pipe down it to get the upper pipe and vacuum the lower.  Scrape the burn basket clean and it will run at 600f all the time. I am using it 24/7  .. I use a bag and a half a day,  not as cheap as gas,  but not bad.  Hopefully furnace is working soon,  part backorder, but this stove is OK in my books


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## Landspeeder

We live in a old one room school house that different owners, over the years, have made changes that makes it hard to believe that it was a school. It's over 100 years old and building codes then we're not like today's.  Anyways the 3in pipe comes off the stove starting with a elbow, runs horizontal 3ft then another elbow, then a 6 ft horizontal run to a 6in pipe adapter, then a 6in elbow and straight up the old chimney, that's 16ft ,and out. 
I did the feather up the pipe test for draft, feather disappeared, hooked it up and it works awesome. People a 100yrs ago build great chimneys. So bottom line is keeping the stove clean... Also make sure that you have a good chimney.


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## kyenski9iron

Hi there all!  So this is my first post to this forum.  I bought the wiseway pellet stove last year with the hopes of using it as a primary heat source for our house (1900 farm house).  The house has forced hot air, but fuel oil is too Damn expensive.  We followed the reqs when installing, and started running it.  Was not impressed at all with the heat from it.  Little did I know that this stove was made for soft wood pellets, and here I am trying to burn hardwoods.  So once I switched to the the easy blaze blend it ran much much better, but still not too impressed with its heat output.  Was losing a ton up the chimney.  Oh well I ran it for a winter with that set up: easyblaze blend, 8ft of 4" pipe with no bends, and no outside air intake.  It ran decent but not great. 

This winter, we did some upgrades.  We added a Magic Heat inline with the stove pipe.  Used a 3 x 6 adapter off the flu, then put the magic heat in, then reduced it back to 4 in with a 6x4 adapter. Ran 4in pipe another 8ft up.  Added on the outside air intake.  Ran this about 3 ft from stove.  WOW  What a difference, this stove just cranks out the heat.  We've only been in the low 30s so far but my furnace has yet to kick on.  And right now I'm getting about 20 hours per bag on med to high heat setting.  Straight high setting is more like 14 hours.  I've attached a pic so you can see the set up, hopefully it comes through.  Anyway, its a 2 thumbs up for me.


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## Deezl Smoke

kyenski9iron said:


> Hi there all!  So this is my first post to this forum.  I bought the wiseway pellet stove last year with the hopes of using it as a primary heat source for our house (1900 farm house).  The house has forced hot air, but fuel oil is too Damn expensive.  We followed the reqs when installing, and started running it.  Was not impressed at all with the heat from it.  Little did I know that this stove was made for soft wood pellets, and here I am trying to burn hardwoods.  So once I switched to the the easy blaze blend it ran much much better, but still not too impressed with its heat output.  Was losing a ton up the chimney.  Oh well I ran it for a winter with that set up: easyblaze blend, 8ft of 4" pipe with no bends, and no outside air intake.  It ran decent but not great.
> 
> This winter, we did some upgrades.  We added a Magic Heat inline with the stove pipe.  Used a 3 x 6 adapter off the flu, then put the magic heat in, then reduced it back to 4 in with a 6x4 adapter. Ran 4in pipe another 8ft up.  Added on the outside air intake.  Ran this about 3 ft from stove.  WOW  What a difference, this stove just cranks out the heat.  We've only been in the low 30s so far but my furnace has yet to kick on.  And right now I'm getting about 20 hours per bag on med to high heat setting.  Straight high setting is more like 14 hours.  I've attached a pic so you can see the set up, hopefully it comes through.  Anyway, its a 2 thumbs up for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 231806



 Again, I hit the like button, but can only hit it once. I wish I could hit it a hunnerd times. 
 Thank you very much for sharing this experience. I am amazed how much better it runs with your chimney changes. But this stove relies pretty heavy on a correct chimney design. No combustion fan to compensate.


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## kyenski9iron

I completely agree with you, this stove really does seem to be all about Its chimney set up.  I really was unsure if reducing it back to 4in was the best idea or continue from the magic heat with 6in pipe.  But the 4in seems to do the trick.  

I also can't stress enough about the pellet choice.  I know every stove acts different but my God...I think I went through 7 or 8 pellet companies before I found the easyblaze.  Now that being said I tried both.  I tried the easyblaze blend and the easyblaze super premium (just softwood) and damned if that stove didn't run like crap with the super premium.  I put the blend in next and it burned hard!!  There was so much more heat with the blend.  So I will at times pick up a couple bags of drycreek or barefoot and mix that with the easyblaze and it really does seem to burn hotter.


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## kyenski9iron

Oh I forgot to add this, cleaning is a definite as I'm sure anyone that has this stove knows.  But I think I'm going to add a second door to my stove.  I'm a CNC guy and have access to a plasma cutter.  I can completely clean the 1st and 2nd elbows but its hard to do the top.  I already have a second door ( took glass out and welded a solid piece back in.  Now next spring I'm going to cut a second door opening on top tubing and make that just an access door to clean it more thoroughly.


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## TheGirlofallTrades

A few questions for you if you don't mind...
First off, I loved your posts here!!  And that picture was fantastic!  (Yes, I would also hit the "Like" button 100x if I could.)  I have been doing so much research on this stove and am ready to buy one, but am trying to figure out a few things.  If you were to start over and install this Wiseway stove in a rancher, straight thru the roof, would you go with 6" pipe all the way?  I see your modification, the Magic Heat, then reduced back down to 4".  I am starting from scratch, so I was wondering if you would recommend 4" or 6", now that you've used it for a while and know that the updraft is so important.
Also, I have the easiest access to hardwood pellets, (I work at Lowe's), should I even bother with the hardwood pellets, or try to find a place that sells softwood and go with only softwood...??  If I'm going to be frustrated with the issues that come with hardwood pellets, as I'm reading about on so many reviews, I would rather not even get them.

Thank you so much in advance if you get to reply to this.


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## MButkus

How could it be UL approved.. no electricity.  
According to the PR I read, the only "UL Listed non-electric pellet stove on the market today"

I saw a picture of one... really strange, then saw this article.  But the "back burn" seem serious.
Ace Hardware is selling them !


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## Mt Bob

MButkus said:


> How could it be UL approved.. no electricity.
> According to the PR I read, the only "UL Listed non-electric pellet stove on the market today"
> 
> I saw a picture of one... really strange, then saw this article.  But the "back burn" seem serious.
> Ace Hardware is selling them !


UL does lots of things that are not electricity related.


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## kyenski9iron

Hey there, so I'm not really sure what it would do with 6in pipe.  I know if you go to US Stove Company's website, you can go to the stove and download the manual which gives you install instructions and tips for 3", 4", and 6" pipe.


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## kyenski9iron

Also, I think I would keep it just the way it is.  The only issue I'm really starting to face is parts durability.  The main burn chamber and basket on my stove are shot.  Probably didn't help that I had a few over-burns but i am going to need all new replacement parts after 2 years.  Other then this set back the stove runs fantastic for me


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## 1lowbagdranger

Hows it going, new here, recently purchased a house in NH with 2 pellet stoves, 1 of which being a Wiseway, knew nothing about it until this year we actually started using both. Its an older model as it doesnt have the fire window above the slide. I have a hard time keeping it running at a consistent temp. Some problems i see right of the bat is the pipe goes 2 stories straight up, so at least 20’ which ive read is a no no, i also run it on a cheap home depot pellet(next year ill change that)and it also doesnt have a barometric damper which i will look to install aswell. the previous home owner did some “mods” to it, sealed up certain area’s with a silicone of some sort. I am having problems with the burn back, i emailed wiseway and hopefully they have an answer for me, it heats up the 1 part of my house pretty nicely so id like to use it. Any advice other then what i stated above would def be great!


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## wil05us

The Wiseway is a poorly engineered stove.

- The pellet feed chamber is welded to the heated burn chamber. In 2 places. 

-The way the pellet chamber is built, it often acts like a chimney. If the solid chamber is interrupted, it will not back burn. 

-The burn chamber needs to reach higher temps in order to combust all the gasses. Otherwise, it creates dangerous amounts of creosote.

- The W shape,  cools the exhaust gases so much, large amounts of creosote condense all over the outdoor pipe. I wish there was an easy fix for this stove. But to be a serious contender as a safe stove, more work is indicated. Perhaps wrapping the burn chamber with insulation might help.


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## kyenski9iron

wil05us said:


> The Wiseway is a poorly engineered stove.
> 
> - The pellet feed chamber is welded to the heated burn chamber. In 2 places.
> 
> -The way the pellet chamber is built, it often acts like a chimney. If the solid chamber is interrupted, it will not back burn.
> 
> -The burn chamber needs to reach higher temps in order to combust all the gasses. Otherwise, it creates dangerous amounts of creosote.
> 
> - The W shape,  cools the exhaust gases so much, large amounts of creosote condense all over the outdoor pipe. I wish there was an easy fix for this stove. But to be a serious contender as a safe stove, more work is indicated. Perhaps wrapping the burn chamber with insulation might help.




So are you saying this from experience, or from some other source?  Cause I personally have one, have shown my set up, and its keeping my house at an average 65-68 degrees with outside temps here in NY at 14 degrees.  

Also as for the creosote...I personally have not had any build up.  This stove runs hot already.  

I think the biggest issue anyone will have that owns this stove is parts durability.  I went right through it and put heavier larger gaskets and higher temp sealant throughout the hole stove and it burns great.  But if you are having that much issue with your stove if get your manual out and make sure your to spec.


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