# GFCI or GFI outside outlet failed?



## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2012)

Hello

My friends outside GFI outlet would not reset. I test the wires coming in. They were fine and had voltage coming thru conduit connected to a 15a breaker inside the house. I replaced the metal box and both outlets with all plugs and a new cover and weather seal!

There was a missing plug on the left side and the bottom screws were rusted solid!
The bottom screw heads holding the outlets in the metal box snapped right off!
Looks like the green ground screw on both outlets are severely rusted!

Could rain water getting in from that missing plug hole destroy both outlets in this quadplex?
The box was on a open wood deck about 3 feet off the ground.

See pics below. Click to enlarge.


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## Jags (Aug 2, 2012)

Absolutely.  That is a common display of what happens to outlets when there is water intrusion.  Replace.


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## fossil (Aug 2, 2012)

Rain lands on the top of the box, runs down the side, finds the open hole, makes itself comfortable inside.  Looks like it was like that for a long time.  That whole box & its contents is unsafe trash.


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## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2012)

fossil said:


> Rain lands on the top of the box, runs down the side, finds the open hole, makes itself comfortable inside. Looks like it was like that for a long time. That whole box & its contents is unsafe trash.


 
Yes, I agree. The screws broke off the box, cannot put a new outlet in the old box if I tried! I got a new cover with new weather seal also!


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## PapaDave (Aug 2, 2012)

Good job Don. You 'da man!


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## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2012)

PapaDave said:


> Good job Don. You 'da man!


 
Thanks PapaDave

Now they can plug in their electric grill light for some night grilling in the fall!


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## vinny11950 (Aug 2, 2012)

" 15a breaker inside the house"

not sure, but thought the outlets with the horizontal and vertical plugs have to be connected to 20 amp breakers.


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## fossil (Aug 2, 2012)

Vinny's absolutely right. Good eye. I know these pics show the bad stuff that was removed, but if this is indeed on a 15a. circuit, then I hope the new replacement outlets are 15a. rather than 20a.


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## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2012)

vinny11950 said:


> " 15a breaker inside the house"
> 
> not sure, but thought the outlets with the horizontal and vertical plugs have to be connected to 20 amp breakers.


 
There is a 15 amp breaker in the house. Yes, the new outlets are 15 amp. Thanks for the info!

A 20 amp circuit must have a 20 amp breaker, 12 gauge wiring and a 20 amp receptacle


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## seige101 (Aug 2, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> There is a 15 amp breaker in the house. Yes, the new outlets are 15 amp. Thanks for the info!
> 
> A 20 amp circuit must have a 20 amp breaker, 12 gauge wiring and a 20 amp receptacle



Partially correct. If there is more than 1 device on a 20 amp circuit 15 amp receptacles may be used.


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## nate379 (Aug 2, 2012)

I'd have to read up on that. I don't think I've actually ever seen a 120v appliance that used that sideways leg to be honest.

I do know you can put 15 amp rated outlets on a 20amp (12 gauge) wire and breaker. The 20 amp outlets are the spendy ones so usually don't see them used unless needed.



vinny11950 said:


> " 15a breaker inside the house"
> 
> not sure, but thought the outlets with the horizontal and vertical plugs have to be connected to 20 amp breakers.


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## Don2222 (Aug 2, 2012)

nate379 said:


> I'd have to read up on that. I don't think I've actually ever seen a 120v appliance that used that sideways leg to be honest.
> 
> I do know you can put 15 amp rated outlets on a 20amp (12 gauge) wire and breaker. The 20 amp outlets are the spendy ones so usually don't see them used unless needed.


 
One like this Nate?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LE...6&srccode=cii_13736960&cpncode=26-156088177-2


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## fossil (Aug 2, 2012)

Window air conditioner I put into my shop in Virginia required a dedicated 20a. circuit, and it had a plug with the hot & neutral prongs perpendicular to one another (hot vertical, neutral horizontal).  I bought a simplex 20a. outlet for it...only space for one plug.


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## Jags (Aug 3, 2012)

There are "rules" to be followed, but technically the breaker and wire are what dictates the amp rating of a circuit, not the outlet.  A 20 amp circuit can use 15 amp outlets if there is more than one outlet in the circuit. It is also correct that a 20 amp outlet shouldn't be used on a 15 amp circuit for one reason - I gives the user a false impression that this circuit has a 20 amp capacity, and it doesn't.


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## basod (Aug 3, 2012)

If the new box you used has the same threaded conduit blanks you'll see the same issue down the road sometime.
Drill a small hole in the bottom of the box small enough for wasps/dirt dobbers to not get in.
It's a whole lot easier to let water out than to try to keep it from getting in


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## seige101 (Aug 3, 2012)

The old boxes used to contain a little tiny tube of sealant you were supposed to use on the KO seals. Now a days they don't include it, so smear a little silicone around them and it should be pretty water tight. Though the in use covers are far from sealed up and still let the moisture in but thats a rant for another day!


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## Don2222 (Aug 3, 2012)

basod said:


> If the new box you used has the same threaded conduit blanks you'll see the same issue down the road sometime.
> Drill a small hole in the bottom of the box small enough for wasps/dirt dobbers to not get in.
> It's a whole lot easier to let water out than to try to keep it from getting in


 
The old metal box had metal blanks with one missing on the side. Actually the new metal box has plastic screw in blanks that go in tight. Even so, I brought my clear silicon and coated all the threads before screwing them into the box! Should that do it?


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## MasterMech (Aug 5, 2012)

Jags said:


> There are "rules" to be followed, but technically the breaker and wire are what dictates the amp rating of a circuit, not the outlet. A 20 amp circuit can use 15 amp outlets if there is more than one outlet in the circuit. It is also correct that a 20 amp outlet shouldn't be used on a 15 amp circuit for one reason - I gives the user a false impression that this circuit has a 20 amp capacity, and it doesn't.


 
While true, I don't see a safety concern with the 20A outlet on a 15A circuit/breaker.  Might annoy the $%#! out of whoever keeps plugging in that 20A appliance and tripping the breaker tho!


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## Don2222 (Aug 5, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While true, I don't see a safety concern with the 20A outlet on a 15A circuit/breaker. Might annoy the $%#! out of whoever keeps plugging in that 20A appliance and tripping the breaker tho!


 
Then they could change the breaker to 20 amp. 

The stranded wires in the conduit were very thick. How could I tell if they were 12 gauge?


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## MasterMech (Aug 5, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Then they could change the breaker to 20 amp.
> 
> The stranded wires in the conduit were very thick. How could I tell if they were 12 gauge?


Look closely at the insulation, should say 12 AWG on it somewhere or use the holes on your wire stripping pliers (if you have a set of that type, most do) for comparison.


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## Jags (Aug 6, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While true, I don't see a safety concern with the 20A outlet on a 15A circuit/breaker. Might annoy the $%#! out of whoever keeps plugging in that 20A appliance and tripping the breaker tho!


 
That is zacktly why is it not code.  People plugging stuff in and popping breakers.


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## mepellet (Aug 7, 2012)

Were the receptacles replaced with weather-resistant type?


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## Don2222 (Aug 11, 2012)

mepellet said:


> Were the receptacles replaced with weather-resistant type?


 
Electrical outlets are not weather resistant. I used the exact same type(GFI and regular outlets) and brand new similar weather proof electrical box and weather cover.

The only thing I did different was to cover the threads of the wire connector and the plugs with clear silicon sealer. The plugs are plastic now so they seal tighter in the metal box.


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## mepellet (Aug 11, 2012)

Don,
They do make "weather resistant" receptacles.... They have "WR" on the face usually.
http://www.smarthome.com/36544B/Lev...uplex-Receptacle-w-LED-Indicator-Black/p.aspx

See section 406.8 of the NEC. A cover must be used also..

EDIT.  The straps & screws are stainless steel I think also.


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## Don2222 (Aug 11, 2012)

mepellet said:


> Don,
> They do make "weather resistant" receptacles.... They have "WR" on the face usually.
> http://www.smarthome.com/36544B/Lev...uplex-Receptacle-w-LED-Indicator-Black/p.aspx
> 
> ...


 
That is interesting. I like the GFCI with the colored buttons.
This way I know to press the red button to reset.

The test button is black.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203311006/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=gfci recepticle&storeId=10051#.UCbS_K-DE-0

I just found this! New Code in 2008
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/pdfs/h5255.pdf
Weather Resistant Receptacles
All 15 and 20 amp, 125 and 250 volt non-locking
receptacles shall be listed as weather resistant type
per NEC® Article 406.8, Receptacles in Damp and Wet
Locations.
• Receptacles installed outdoors and other wet /damp
locations are subject to demanding temperature
variations, direct sunlight and unusual mechanical
abuse than those in a typical dry environments.
• Weatherproof covers do not offer complete
environmental protection.
• Weather resistance increases corrosion resistance,
cold impact, resistance to ultraviolet and water
exposure and effects of aging.
• Damp locations include receptacles installed outdoors
and locations requiring a weatherproof enclosure.
• Listed devices are required to have


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## mepellet (Aug 11, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> That is interesting. I like the GFCI with the colored buttons.
> This way I know to press the red button to reset.
> 
> The test button is black.
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203311006/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=gfci recepticle&storeId=10051#.UCbS_K-DE-0


I am pretty sure that it is now required by the 2011 NEC to install WR type in damp & wet locations.


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## Don2222 (Aug 11, 2012)

Hello

You are correct. Actually since 2008. Thanks for the info!


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