# Decision time: NZ6000, NZ3000, Monticello Estate, or Xtrordinaire 44 Elite



## frozendd (Oct 23, 2011)

I thought I was decided.  Built a summer place on the lake two years ago but left fireplace out due to cost.  The space is there and now it's crunch time.  I want the fireplace in by xmas so we can spend time out there over the break.   Its about 2400 square ft, open concept, 27 foot ceiling, 8 inch log, lots of windows facing north (onto the lake).  The plan was to fire it up and heat the place while we are there.  I have an electric furnace but I keep the cottage shut down (except for electric baseboards in the basement to keep it from freezing).  It's in Northern Ontario.  

As the main room is large with high ceilings, only a large unit is appropriate.  I had decided on the Napoleon NZ6000 but decided to do some additional research before ultimately deciding.  Here are the issues  (mostly from hearth threads):

- door hing sagging
- poor support from installers
- cold air intake
- EPA exempt (whatever that means)
- eats wood
- cost

there is also the issue as to whether I need the optional external blower.  I thought the blower frow my furnace would do the job of circulating the air through the place.
The Monticello looks good as well though opening is only 15" high at center vs about 22" with NZ6000.  NZ3000 looks good but might look to small for space.
BTW, cost installed is almost 3x the retail cost of the unit.  Only one supplier in town. 

Any help, comments, experience would be appreciated.


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## pen (Oct 24, 2011)

Poor support from installers is simply the responsibility of your installer.  I'd say the best thing you can do to get them to do a fine job is to be versed / educated on the installation and what it should be like / look like (block off plates and materials, insulated liners or not, need for an OAK or not, etc, etc.  By asking them questions about their plans for installation if you come off as knowing what you are talking about they will be less likely to cut corners for fear of being caught by a trained eye.

Cold air intakes are very necessary for some, couldn't hurt others, and debatable if they hurt the burn by others.  It really depends on your situation and we'd need to know more about the home, how tight it is in terms of windows / doors / insulation / large bath fans, kitchen hood fans, etc.

That's a huge firebox.  In being EPA exempt it isn't using some of the best secondary burn or catalytic technology on the market to help you get the most bang for your wood buck.  Basically, the stove is designed to make sure enough air is present that the flue gases will be diluted enough that they are not as huge a smokey nuisance to the neighbors as the old airtight stoves could be.

In looking at the cost, if it were me, I'd want a stove that had better reviews on the door latch / hinges and I'd demand secondary burn technology or cat technology.  But that's just my take on it.

pen


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## ScotO (Oct 24, 2011)

we are installing an NZ3000 as we speak, it is a gorgeous fireplace with EPA secondary technology....that size of a stove would probaly be enough for your size project...we liked the NZ6000 but it would have cooked us out in the room we are installing in......keep us posted with pics of what you decide on and your progress, I will do the same when I finally get ours installed, hopefully this week....


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## Village Idiot (Oct 24, 2011)

My buddy used to have a 2500 sf house in Orangeville, ON that had an NZ3000 in it. He loved it It and the Xtrodinaire 44 Elite were on my short list when I was selecting a fireplace for my new house. Ultimately, I went with a Quadrafire 7100 because I found a local dealer/installer that I liked.

You already have a list of fireplaces you like, I recommend that you download the install manuals for each and read them cover to cover. You will be able to identify any quirks that you will not like and this will help you narrow it down to one. Then keep re-reading the manual for the unit you select. You will probalby end up knowing the product better than the dealer and installer. This preparation saved me in a couple of spots during the install that would have caused real problems if allowed to slip by.

Now, I will put a plug in for the Quadrafire 7100. I am really happy with it. I am still learning how to burn efficiently with it, but each day I feel like I am improving. The heat output is great. My 2900 sf, two level, open plan on mainlevel house is nice and toasty. This morning I woke up to 68 degrees upstairs and 74 degrees downstairs. After 8 hours from the initial load, I had just enough coals to fill it back up and the wood took right off.


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## FyreBug (Oct 24, 2011)

Based on your ceiling heights (and budget) you should go with the biggest one you can afford. We deal a lot with designers and architects and they tell us nothing look more silly than a large room with high ceilings then building a huge hearth with a small fireplace.

You have 2 choices. You can go with a large viewing area in a 'decorative' fireplace such as the Rennaissance or Valcourt Frontenac. http://www.valcourtinc.com/product.aspx?CategoId=31&Id=571 They are not as efficient as an EPA model but since you throw a lot of wood in there they will throw heat. However, you cannot put a blower on them.

A better option is to get a large EPA model since they are very efficient and you can put an optional forced air blower to pipe some heat into other rooms. You've already mentioned some excellent models but if you can stand to look at another model try Valcourt Versailles http://www.valcourtinc.com/product.aspx?CategoId=20&Id=482

It's the biggest EPA Phase 2 (Washington State) available on the market at 3.5 Cu Ft. You can install a hot air gravity kit (to draw more heat in your room) & a forced air kit to heat some other rooms. Also dont forget to install ceiling fan to push the heat down.

BTW where about in Northern Ontario? I used to live in New Liskeard.

Disclaimer: I work for the MFG


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## Trail_Time (Oct 24, 2011)

I looked at the NZ6000, Quad 7100, FPX36 and FPX44.  I looked at each unit in person, did the research on line and also saw all of them burn.  I ended up with the FPX44.  I do not think there is a bad choice on any of them.  Choose the one that fits your install and personal situation.

 For me the decision for the FPX came down to having a CAT and the posi pressure system.  I really like the idea of getting the fresh outside air into the house in mid winter.


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## Trail_Time (Oct 24, 2011)

One of my concerns with the NZ6000 was the wood consumption also... the FPX can go thru some wood too, so I would not worry to much on that one.

Cost:  They are all too expensive.  But worth every penny, especially when its 80* inside and single digits outside.

Hinges:  seem to be the single biggest online complaint for the High Country.  Hopefully some owners wil chime in on that one.

Do you have ceiling fans?  You will need them to move all the hot air back down to floor level, otherwise most of your heat will be trapped up high.


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## jeff_t (Oct 24, 2011)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> Based on your ceiling heights (and budget) you should go with the biggest one you can afford. We deal a lot with designers and architects and they tell us nothing look more silly than a large room with high ceilings then building a huge hearth with a small fireplace.
> 
> You have 2 choices. You can go with a large viewing area in a 'decorative' fireplace such as the Rennaissance or Valcourt Frontenac. http://www.valcourtinc.com/product.aspx?CategoId=31&Id=571 They are not as efficient as an EPA model but since you throw a lot of wood in there they will throw heat. However, you cannot put a blower on them.
> 
> ...



Also add in the north facing windows and the fact that log homes are usually kinda drafty. I don't think you'll have too much heat.


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## frozendd (Oct 24, 2011)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> Based on your ceiling heights (and budget) you should go with the biggest one you can afford. We deal a lot with designers and architects and they tell us nothing look more silly than a large room with high ceilings then building a huge hearth with a small fireplace.
> 
> You have 2 choices. You can go with a large viewing area in a 'decorative' fireplace such as the Rennaissance or Valcourt Frontenac. http://www.valcourtinc.com/product.aspx?CategoId=31&Id=571 They are not as efficient as an EPA model but since you throw a lot of wood in there they will throw heat. However, you cannot put a blower on them.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the suggestion.  It's a nice looking unit.  Is it available in Canada?
BTW I live in North Bay. I was just up in NL on business last friday.


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## frozendd (Oct 24, 2011)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

> One of my concerns with the NZ6000 was the wood consumption also... the FPX can go thru some wood too, so I would not worry to much on that one.
> 
> Cost:  They are all too expensive.  But worth every penny, especially when its 80* inside and single digits outside.
> 
> ...




I've got fans.  No air conditioning so I wanted to make sure we have air movement in the summer.  I've got a large fan in the main room, one in the loft and one in each upstair bedroom.

Hinges remain a concern.  I'll probably give them a call to see if there is a fix or if there have been any upgrades.


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## frozendd (Oct 26, 2011)

Trail_Time said:
			
		

> I looked at the NZ6000, Quad 7100, FPX36 and FPX44.  I looked at each unit in person, did the research on line and also saw all of them burn.  I ended up with the FPX44.  I do not think there is a bad choice on any of them.  Choose the one that fits your install and personal situation.
> 
> For me the decision for the FPX came down to having a CAT and the posi pressure system.  I really like the idea of getting the fresh outside air into the house in mid winter.



Just curious as to why you chose the model with catalytic convertor?  Does it work as well in northern climates.  It gets down to 20 and sometimes 30 below here.  Would that be an issue?


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## ScotO (Oct 26, 2011)

I personally stayed away from the CAT stove.....these secondary burn stoves are, in my opinion, nicer because you don't have to worry about that expensive CAT replacement.....they do have baffles, however, that need occasional replacement esp. if you are rough loading the wood into them....to each is own, I guess.....I just think that the Napoleon's look awesome, hands down....it will not be my primary heat (my Napoleon 1900p is my primary), but I am sure I will get a pile of heat out of this fireplace...we will see soon, it's going in this week.....


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## Jack768 (Oct 26, 2011)

I assume you mean the Montecito Estate?  I have the Montecito -- the smaller version -- and I'm very happy with it.  The Estate is a really big unit, 3.5 or 4 cu ft firebox.  I agree with others who point out the benefits of EPA certified units.  Less wood, less chimney gunk, more heat.  I have re-thought the cat issue as I've had more experience with my two non-cat units and I think my next purchase will be a cat -- they are, as reported by many of this site, easier to turn down for long burns while still producing heat.  Because the cat engages at temperatures lower than non-cat secondary combustion systems, they can be designed to be closed down more than a non-cat stove and still meet EPA, and therefore can be a better choice for long, close-it-down-overnight burns.


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## ScotO (Oct 26, 2011)

LIJack said:
			
		

> I assume you mean the Montecito Estate?  I have the Montecito -- the smaller version -- and I'm very happy with it.  The Estate is a really big unit, 3.5 or 4 cu ft firebox.  I agree with others who point out the benefits of EPA certified units.  Less wood, less chimney gunk, more heat.  I have re-thought the cat issue as I've had more experience with my two non-cat units and I think my next purchase will be a cat -- they are, as reported by many of this site, easier to turn down for long burns while still producing heat.  Because the cat engages at temperatures lower than non-cat secondary combustion systems, they can be designed to be closed down more than a non-cat stove and still meet EPA, and therefore can be a better choice for long, close-it-down-overnight burns.



I agree on the longer burns and lower temp CAT engagement, but for me it was the secondary burn stove....both have their benefits.....I've never had my secondary stove let me down, even on long burns....have had many 10-12hr burns and never had a problem stoking it right back up (granted we have a well-insulated house)....plus it is a good way to hypnotize the kids when they aren't listening......make them go and watch the fire swirling around and before you know it they are settled down...one of the most crowded places in the house, that kitchen hearth...lol...


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## Trail_Time (Nov 15, 2011)

frozendd said:
			
		

> Trail_Time said:
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The CAT is cleaner, just about no smoke.....and provides great heat even with a small to moderate fire. Even without burn tubes, I still get a nice secondary flame show.  It depends on how you have the primary air set.   If you are regularly that cold I do not think I would have the blower pull outside air, you would probably have issues keeping the temp sensor hot enough to keep the blower running.  In your case I would install the blower in the basement.


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## jonwright (Nov 15, 2011)

frozendd said:
			
		

> Trail_Time said:
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I would think you wouldn't want to do the posi-pressure deal in your case.  Travis doesn't recommend pulling outside air in really cold climates.  check their manual.  Good news is you can locate the blower unit somewhere else, presumably a little quieter than built in units.  Bad side is that there are no provisions for ducting on the FPX.

Nonetheless my brother-in-law who installs fireplaces has mixed results with ducting units anyway - not significant and you can't do it very far.


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## Mt Ski Bum (Nov 15, 2011)

I'd go with the big boy- the FPX 44- I mean, how can you go wrong with 4.3 cu. ft. of burning space- you can truely stuff that monster full of wood!


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## Mt Ski Bum (Nov 15, 2011)

[duplicate post]


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## Trail_Time (Nov 15, 2011)

Mt Ski Bum said:
			
		

> I'd go with the big boy- the FPX 44- I mean, how can you go wrong with 4.3 cu. ft. of burning space- you can truely stuff that monster full of wood!



The NZ6000 is even bigger than the FPX


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## FyreBug (Nov 16, 2011)

Well it also depends on your budget. Both the NZ6000 and the FPX44 are well north of the $6,000 range and vent on restricted brand of Chimney. 

The FP9 Versailles from Valcourt fully loaded is about $4,500, will take just about any brands of chimney. EPA phase 2

All the models listed above are about 70 to 80K BTU. You will not go wrong with any of those brands.


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## jonwright (Nov 16, 2011)

so I have like a 36'+ run for chimney.  You need to look at the cost INSTALLED for your unit, including the chimney.  The FPX uses cheaper chimney so if you have a long run it may actually be about the same as some 'cheaper' unit that requires more expensive chimney.

So for me, installing a different unit was still going to be about the same price due to the chimney requirements.

Just look at the overall *installed* package, not just the cost of the unit.

I was really close to getting the Napoleon myself, actually.  What swung me to the FPX is my brother in law sold it to me and there were no local dealers that were HEARTH SHOPS that carried the Napoleons.  The local Napoleon "dealer" joint is a lighting store - no thanks.


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## FyreBug (Nov 16, 2011)

The OP is  from Canada. 'Cheaper' Chimneys are typically air cooled which are not allowed in Canada. 

BTW 36' of Chimney is quite a long run. Any issues with over drafting?


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## MF1635 Owner (Nov 16, 2011)

frozendd said:
			
		

> I thought I was decided.  Built a summer place on the lake two years ago but left fireplace out due to cost.  The space is there and now it's crunch time.  I want the fireplace in by xmas so we can spend time out there over the break.   Its about 2400 square ft, open concept, 27 foot ceiling, 8 inch log, lots of windows facing north (onto the lake).  The plan was to fire it up and heat the place while we are there.  I have an electric furnace but I keep the cottage shut down (except for electric baseboards in the basement to keep it from freezing).  It's in Northern Ontario.
> 
> As the main room is large with high ceilings, only a large unit is appropriate.  I had decided on the Napoleon NZ6000 but decided to do some additional research before ultimately deciding.  Here are the issues  (mostly from hearth threads):
> 
> ...




frozendd

I just finished installing the Napoleon NZ3000 with the NZ64 blower a few weeks ago.  

I too was debating between the 3000 and 6000.  In the end I decided on the 3000 bc of the possible problems you mentioned as well as the fact that when I downloaded the installation manuals and read them for each I found that the 6000 would require a lot more modifications to the house during installation bc of its size and where I was installing it.  That said they tout that the 3000 will heat just as much sq ft as the 6000.  

My home was built in 2004 and is a 3200 sqft cape style.  The family room has a cathedral ceiling 18 ft high from floor to ceiling open to the entryway, a upstairs loft, and cat walk going from one end to the other end of the house connecting 3 upstairs bedrooms and baths. In the downstairs the rest of the ceilings are 9 ft and the formal dining and living rooms have  8 foot openings off the entry way, the kitchen has an 8 foot opening directly off the family room where the 3000 is installed.  I have a ceiling fan in the vaulted ceiling in the family room where the 3000 is and in the 3 bedrooms upstairs, all of which are turned on a low to med setting and running in reverse for winter circulation.

In the last few weeks of playing with this thing I have been pleasantly surprised.  First I have so much air circulation that the entire house even the upstairs bedrooms, kitchen, and formal living and dinning that they are all within 1-2 degrees of each other.  I was afraid that one side of the house, or the front formal rooms would be cold.  I have not found that to be an issue yet.  Also I was not sure if it would put out enough heat to use as a primary heat source, that to seem to not be an issue.  I have only gotten the thing up to temp >500 degrees a few times in this shoulder season and the house temp rose to as high as 81 inside with an outside temp of 39.  What I have been doing is starting it around 6pm and after the initial starting fire has burned to coals load 3-4 splits until I go to bed around 11 and throw 3 more in.  This is keeping the entire house around 74-76 and when I wake up in the morning at 6 it is still about 73-74 and I leave it till that evening again.  I live in NW CT, 4 days after I got it installed we had 20 inches of snow and lost power for 4 days at my house.  So I didn't have the blower on the unit or the ceiling fans for circulation.  I did have heat though!  Two of those nights without power it dipped to 24 degrees outside and I was able to easily keep the downstairs at 68 and the upstairs was 74 with no circulation!  So far I love the thing, and it looks great.


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## jonwright (Nov 16, 2011)

FyreBug said:
			
		

> The OP is  from Canada. 'Cheaper' Chimneys are typically air cooled which are not allowed in Canada.
> 
> BTW 36' of Chimney is quite a long run. Any issues with over drafting?



Oh, eh.  Well then, good thing he doesn't have the variable of the chimney!  

So the unit has ducts for chimney cooling - might need to check with Travis or really read up in the install manual as to what that will mean.  We used the air cooled for my install, so not familiar with Option B.

Typo.  26' of chimney.  So far, so good.  My LR is sunken 6' from the rest of the house and the top of the ceiling is 25'.  Don't THINK I have problems with overdrafting, but I'll tell you this:  When I light a fire it's like the wood spontaneously explodes.  Hasn't gotten real cold yet, but I have been able to really dial it down (it appears) for an overnight burn OK.  Just installed Condar temp probe for the cats so we'll see if I have too much draft.  But I'll bet not.


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## Trail_Time (Nov 16, 2011)

jonwright said:
			
		

> FyreBug said:
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I do not believe there is a chimney option B on the FPX.  The cooling intakes draw fresh air to cool the fireplace shell first and then exits up outer portion of the chimney.  With a packed chimney, there would be no outlet and I doubt the unit would retain it's zero clearance ability.


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## ScotO (Nov 16, 2011)

jonwright said:
			
		

> What swung me to the FPX is my brother in law sold it to me and there were no local dealers that were HEARTH SHOPS that carried the Napoleons.  The local Napoleon "dealer" joint is a lighting store - no thanks.


that is probably the biggest problem with Napoleon......they are horrible at rectifying problems, you are at the mercy of their "dealer" and our local dealer is a total ASS.....he loses a TON of business to other makes....we loved the Napoleon so I got one online and the place out of Denver where I bought it was way cheaper, and have been FANTASTIC to deal with, even with my other stove which was bought here local in PA....but Napoleon will not deal directly with customers and I really REALLY dislike that, they would sell more and be better off if they would deal factory direct, like alot of the other manufacturers....I am sure your FPX will do great.....keep us posted....


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## ur606 (Dec 19, 2011)

probably a little late to help on your decision. 

 i have had the nz6000 now going on the 2nd winter. we decided on this fireplace as a compromise, my wife wanted a fireplace for the ambiance and i wanted a wood burner for the heat. we installed it the February of 2010 in a new construction 2900 sq-ft ranch open floor plan with 9ft and cathedral ceilings. we have air brought in from the outside to feed the fire only(combustion air)thru a aluminum duct pipe that needed to be insulated to prevent condensation due to the warmer air in the basement(pipe is about 15 ft long) . i installed the blower in the basement so it would pull the air in the basement up around the fireplace and back out to the first floor then back down to the basement to recirculate.(.i couldn't see the benefit of bringing cold outside air in to circulate and cool the outside of the firebox.). the blower speed is controlled by rheostat on the wall next to the fireplace.

 yes the hinges started to bend by oct.2010,... a newly designed hinge set was received in jan. 2011 and the doors have not sagged since.

 yes , the nz6000 eats wood....it is the biggest firebox, it is a fireplace,with a metal shroud not a woodburner and it does put out all the heat i need to sit in shorts and t-shirts thru out the house all winter! simple formula.. more wood... more heat..

yes this is a big unit and should be put in big rooms

 yes, the glass gets dirty,especially with wet or unseasoned wood and always when the fire starts to go out. but if you dont want to clean 4 ft. of glass get a wood-burner or insert with solid doors. heck i had to clean the glass on every woodburner i've owned

 yes , you only can go about 5-6 hours before you have to replenish the fire ( if you want see flames )but every morning when i get up  after sleeping 8 hrs or so there are still plenty of coals left and all i do is put more wood in it , leave the doors cracked alittle for 10 or 15 minutes and it is back roaring again.

all i can say is this fireplace has been worth every penny...it has performed as we had hoped. it is a focal point in our house. visitors are amazed at the amount of heat it puts out and the beauty of it... both the wife and I are very happy with it


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## Dieselhead (Dec 22, 2011)

ur606 said:
			
		

> probably a little late to help on your decision.
> 
> i have had the nz6000 now going on the 2nd winter. we decided on this fireplace as a compromise, my wife wanted a fireplace for the ambiance and i wanted a wood burner for the heat. we installed it the February of 2010 in a new construction 2900 sq-ft ranch open floor plan with 9ft and cathedral ceilings. we have air brought in from the outside to feed the fire only(combustion air)thru a aluminum duct pipe that needed to be insulated to prevent condensation due to the warmer air in the basement(pipe is about 15 ft long) . i installed the blower in the basement so it would pull the air in the basement up around the fireplace and back out to the first floor then back down to the basement to recirculate.(.i couldn't see the benefit of bringing cold outside air in to circulate and cool the outside of the firebox.). the blower speed is controlled by rheostat on the wall next to the fireplace.
> 
> ...



I set up my 3000 exactly the same way you have, and my statement would echo yours 100%!


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## ur606 (Jan 8, 2013)

napolean hinge fix.


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