# Neighbor burning leaves and grass



## PaulOinMA (Mar 16, 2020)

I've been watching my neighbor across the street raking piles of leaves and thatch in her lawn into circles all day and lighting them on fire.

Burn season in town is to April 1.  A $10 permit is required, and you have to call the FD to let them know you are burning that day.  Brush burning is allowed.  Leaves and grass are a no-no, probably for the very reason of what I see going on across the street.  

I've been thinking of the folks on here that live in areas that have issued with wood burning fireplaces and the like for air quality as I see the smoke in her yard.

Pretty sure she does not have a permit.  She probably doesn't know she needs one.  Not going to say anything.  Just keep an eye on her to make sure things stay in control.  We're in a residential area of a town (1,700 people/sq. mi.)

I grew up on a wooded lot in CT in the 1960s, and we would burn our leaves.  Dad lit the woods on fire once.  I sort of like the smell.  Takes me back.   (Thought of the chimney height thread from a member on here in RI.  The folks in the apartment near him would be going nutso if they saw what I'm seeing.  )

She getting closer to the tree line between her and her neighbor.  Thick bed of pine needles in the area between the properties.  She and her younger son start picking up piles of pine needles and throwing them on the fire.

O.k., now I need to say something. 

I walk across the street and ask if she has a permit.  As expected, she didn't know.  Deer-in-the-headlights look.   I mention that a FD permit is required, and the burn season goes to April 1.  Can only burn to 4 PM, too.  She stopped burning.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2020)

I wait until after a rain to burn ,more smokey but the neighbors wont get freaked out that im going to burn the adjacent mountain and woods including their houses down. No permit needed.


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## Dataman (Mar 16, 2020)

I just take them out to the forest and let them rot.  Better for the Forest.


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## PaulOinMA (Mar 16, 2020)

Not sure this is what you want to be doing in a city of 40,000.   









						Marlborough, Massachusetts - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




As I posted, I can only imagine what the apartment folks in the RI chimney height thread would say.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 16, 2020)

That close to neighbors she is better off composting the stuff.  Safer too.


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## AlbergSteve (Mar 16, 2020)

Got a neighbour doing the same thing, couldn't even be in the yard while he was burning all day.  Would love to see the municipality ban open burning -- you'd think we were still living in caves and needed the heat.


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

Dataman said:


> I just take them out to the forest and let them rot.  Better for the Forest.



I beg to differ burning releases nutrient to the soil.


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

I used to hate to enforce the burn bans. I would always tell people put it out and burn after 6:00 when we are off shift.


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## PaulOinMA (Mar 17, 2020)

woodnomore said:


> … I beg to differ burning releases nutrient to the soil …



I have a house in Corolla, NC.  Currituck county does controlled burns.  Sure is smokey.   









						Controlled Burns Bring Life to the Marshes
					

Audubon NC staff is conducting sustainable controlled burns at the Audubon Sanctuary in Corolla.




					pineisland.audubon.org
				




Dare county is just to the south, and they do burns, too.  Lots of pictures on the internet.


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

Yep I worked wild land fire for 20 years, would on occasion work on prescribed fires. Even areas that had wildfires they would green up much faster than surrounding areas.


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## PaulOinMA (Mar 17, 2020)

Have you seen NOVA_ Inside the Megafire_?









						Inside the Megafire
					

Scientists investigate what was behind the deadly megafires that swept through California in 2018.



					www.pbs.org
				




There was also a very good article in the NY Times Sunday magazine section several montha ago on the CA fires.


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

I spent 20 summers out west running hand crews, engine crews, etc. I have seen many a day when you could not catch a fire from behind and you sure as hell are not going to get in front of it. Once flame heights are over 11' there is nothing you can do even with a huge fire engine and air support.


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## Dataman (Mar 17, 2020)

Let Sleeping Leaves Lie
					

Keep leaves as a valuable resource in your yard.




					www.ilfbpartners.com


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

Dataman said:


> Let Sleeping Leaves Lie
> 
> 
> Keep leaves as a valuable resource in your yard.
> ...




No thanks. I do not burn my lawn but I do burn my pasture.


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## AlbergSteve (Mar 17, 2020)

woodnomore said:


> I beg to differ burning releases nutrient to the soil.


You gotta 'splain that one to me...


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## woodnomore (Mar 17, 2020)

AlbergSteve said:


> You gotta 'splain that one to me...



Google is your friend.


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## kennyp2339 (Mar 18, 2020)

Coming from NJ here, we have well strict everything around here, but one thing has recently been loosened up, that is burning. As a homeowner all you need a an open burn permit for a firepit, you get this by calling the state forest fire office and they will dispatch a forestry firefighter to your house to inspect the firepit then issue a permit providing you safe and sane (at there discretion) and no burning for leaves or grass, but brush is fine, the permit is good for 30 days free of charge.
New from 4 years ago is private open burning, if you own acreage you can now do a prescribed burning providing you submit a burn plan to the state for review, it use to be the state would come to your property and do it for you under there training program (drill for the forestry folks) Study after study has been done and the state now see's the benefits of keeping areas burned and cleaned, reduce ticks / fleas, invasive plants destroyed, fire load reduced, habitat for small animals / birds maintained.  
Fire is healthy when done properly, it is also a double edge sword and can easily become just as dangerous as anything else when done half @$#, I personally get burn permit after burn permit every year, I made great friends with the fire warden who just shows up at my place every 30 days to drop off an updated permit, the other thing, just like regular wood burning is to watch the smoke that's produced and keep the fire ripping & clean burning.


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## SpaceBus (Mar 18, 2020)

I hate the smell, but around here they controlled burn the blueberry fields and that creates better conditions for the blueberries. Our property has a fair amount of blueberries and someone suggested I burn my yard to have a stronger yeild.


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## PaulOinMA (Mar 18, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> … blueberries …



I worked at Colgate in the 1990s.  A colleague was Per Stensby at Ciba Specialty Chemicals in NC.  He came to a meeting, and his hands were purple.  I asked and was told that he has a blueberry farm in Maine and it's harvest season.


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## Grizzerbear (Mar 18, 2020)

Their are lots of controlled burns here as well. Most of them done by our conservation department. I'm no scientist but I can see that if the woods are burned off every year they are a hell of a lot safer and less destructive if a fire is ever unintentionally started. It's when they go years and years without burning and then you have that record dry year. Obviously burning the leaves on the forest floor releases the nutrients to the soil faster than it having to slowly decompose. It also promotes new growth when the forest floor is allowed the sunlight that was restricted by heavy leaf litter.


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## PaulOinMA (Mar 18, 2020)

That was a point made by NOVA, link above.  Lightning strikes and natural burns have always been a part of nature.  The rush to extinguish lightning-strike fires in wooded areas that are now developed with homes created a situation for mega-fires.


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## Bad LP (Mar 18, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I hate the smell, but around here they controlled burn the blueberry fields and that creates better conditions for the blueberries. Our property has a fair amount of blueberries and someone suggested I burn my yard to have a stronger yeild.


Bears like berries. I hope you like bears. LOL.

I drive past a small blueberry farm, well it was until they started growing hemp. One night I was passing thru and the woods were fully involved. Seems the field burn got a little out of hand.


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## paulnlee (Mar 18, 2020)

Damn, if it ain't the government it's the neighborhood police


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## SpaceBus (Mar 18, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> Bears like berries. I hope you like bears. LOL.
> 
> I drive past a small blueberry farm, well it was until they started growing hemp. One night I was passing thru and the woods were fully involved. Seems the field burn got a little out of hand.


A bear will probably feed us for a year, so I'm good with that.


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## woodnomore (Mar 18, 2020)

In Minnesota you can have a 36" x 36" fire without a permit unless you live in some commie suburb. Can go to town and get a permit for a bigger fire but they do shut down permits when the weather gets dry.


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## Bad LP (Mar 19, 2020)

My old Chief and his then Lt. son were pyromaniacs. They love to burn.

One afternoon we were at a brush fire that went into the night. As the fire was getting knocked down it obviously was getting darker and darker. We had hundreds of feet of hose laid that needed to be picked up and we were pretty far from the engine. All of a sudden there is this huge glow of light and it's our Lt. building a bonfire at the manifold so we could see. It was the last thing we put out. LOL.


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## woodnomore (Mar 19, 2020)

I had a hand crew out in Custer SD, we got stuck on night detail. I was pissed, the overhead team at briefing says they are all about life safety yet they ask me to work in timber that has been smoldering for a week in the dark. We would hike in off the drop zone find the most open spot in the woods and drag all the smoldering wood we could into a big pile and then hunker down till sunrise.


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## Sodbuster (Mar 19, 2020)

Busybodies with too much time on their hands.


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## Baddyart (Apr 17, 2020)

I think the best way is to take them out to the forest.


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## CaptSpiff (Apr 17, 2020)

Baddyart said:


> I think the best way is to take them out to the forest.


The leaves or the people?


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## SpaceBus (Apr 17, 2020)

CaptSpiff said:


> The leaves or the people?


Both?


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## maple1 (Apr 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I hate the smell, but around here they controlled burn the blueberry fields and that creates better conditions for the blueberries. Our property has a fair amount of blueberries and someone suggested I burn my yard to have a stronger yeild.



It's a pruning method. Wild blueberries produce best when managed on a 2 year cycle. Crop every other year. Pruning can also and is usually done by a close mowing. Burning does a bit better job though with reducing diseases and pests. Also might release land that has had nothing done to it yet a bit better, if first pruning is a burn. Can spread straw in late fall then free burn as early as possible in the spring. Following local laws of course.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 19, 2020)

maple1 said:


> It's a pruning method. Wild blueberries produce best when managed on a 2 year cycle. Crop every other year. Pruning can also and is usually done by a close mowing. Burning does a bit better job though with reducing diseases and pests. Also might release land that has had nothing done to it yet a bit better, if first pruning is a burn. Can spread straw in late fall then free burn as early as possible in the spring. Following local laws of course.


Perhaps we will mow it this year then? Someone was mowing the scant cleared area where the blueberries grow over the years, but certainly only once every year or two, if that. Is it better to mow early or late?


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## maple1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Usually done late fall after the crop is picked and after the first frost or two. Can also be done early the next spring. Any time within the next month or so actually. Right now would be the start of spring burning season, before mowing became prevalent.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 19, 2020)

maple1 said:


> Usually done late fall after the crop is picked and after the first frost or two. Can also be done early the next spring. Any time within the next month or so actually. Right now would be the start of spring burning season, before mowing became prevalent.


Then this year we will mow after we harvest them. Last fall we didn't really have time to spend raking and cleaning berries, this fall should be different.


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## maple1 (Apr 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Then this year we will mow after we harvest them. Last fall we didn't really have time to spend raking and cleaning berries, this fall should be different.



Not sure how much area you're talking but another common management practice is split it in half and prune/harvest on opposite years. So each year you'll have berries.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 19, 2020)

maple1 said:


> Not sure how much area you're talking but another common management practice is split it in half and prune/harvest on opposite years. So each year you'll have berries.


The area is a slope maybe 75' x 50 ' (23m x 15m) and has other stuff mixed in. I plan on pulling out the seedling/sapling conifers, but there is also some goldenrod, wild blackberry, and wild strawberry mixed in as well.


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## PaulOinMA (Apr 19, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> … I plan on pulling out the seedling/sapling conifers …



I've cleared out our woods here in MA.  House listing said we had a pond.  Didn't think we did. Walked back through the very thick brush and saw a small pond.  Cleared out the woods of brush and a lot of the little trees.  Only took down one very large pine in the woods near the pond that I also thought was a thread to the house.

We actually have a nice vernal pond that gets wood ducks and migrating mallards.

Lots of little conifers I need to pull out this spring while they are still small enough to easily yank out of the round.


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