# Rinnai ES38-P Direct Vent Propane Wall Furnace



## chrisasst (Mar 6, 2013)

Starting a new thread from this one  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lowes-roofing-hvac-install.106199/


Does anyone have experience / own one of these. 
http://www.rinnai.us/direct-vent-wall-furnace/product/es38_rhfe-1004fta#mce_temp_url#







IS this what the guy I had here the other day tell me he would recommend me to install. Said it is "bank approved", would have not problem with heat.
This is what is sales agreement says about job :

1.    DESCRIPTION OF WORK AND MATERIALS (including make, model, or other identifying information): J. B SMITH WILL PROVIDE AND INSTALL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








RINNAI NES38 DIRECT VENTER HEATER INSTALLED IN LIVING ROOM AREA, WITH NEW DIRECT VENT PIPING, HOOKUP NEW PROPANE GAS LINES,                        
SET NEW TANK,WHOLE HOUSE GAS LEAK TEST, ELECTRIC AT UNIT AND ALL MISC. PARTS.        




HEATER INSTALLED $3240.00


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## begreen (Mar 7, 2013)

I haven't owned one but have spoken to folks that do. They really like them. It's a quality unit.


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## FanMan (Mar 7, 2013)

I have two similar, but smaller, unites made by Empire and I really like them.  One thing to check, though, is whether they will still operate without electricity (mine do).  If electricity is just for the fan so they run at reduced efficiency without it that's fine, but if it's required for the controls you may be out of heat during a power failure.


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## ironpony (Mar 7, 2013)

i had a similiar unit, non vented NG and liked it. Is propane going to be cost effective??


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## chrisasst (Mar 7, 2013)

ironpony said:


> i had a similiar unit, non vented NG and liked it. Is propane going to be cost effective??


 
I believe propane is the only gas choice I have around me.


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## Highbeam (Mar 7, 2013)

LPG is often not cost effective when compared with regular old electricity. Also consider that a wall heater is like 150$ and has no chance of creating CO fumes.


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## chrisasst (Mar 7, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> LPG is often not cost effective when compared with regular old electricity. Also consider that a wall heater is like 150$ and has no chance of creating CO fumes.


 
Is there an electric wall heater capable of 38,000 btu which this propane heater says it does on max?  Also I am looking for something in the "nice" category for when we sell the house.
I am open to options, but just don't have much resource $$..


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## eclecticcottage (Mar 7, 2013)

Electric is kinda high in NYS..

We had an old DV NG unit in our old house.  Worked fine in our bedroom....


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## Highbeam (Mar 8, 2013)

chrisasst said:


> Is there an electric wall heater capable of 38,000 btu which this propane heater says it does on max? Also I am looking for something in the "nice" category for when we sell the house.
> I am open to options, but just don't have much resource $$..


 
This is the best part. You don't get one fat heater, you get one or two for each room. This allows you to zone heat and save costs by maintaining different temperatures for each room. The typical wall heater is about the size of a toaster and puts out 3800 watts which is 16 amps at 240 which is why each one gets its own 20 amp circuit and uses a regular 12/2 romex.

3800 watts is about 13000 btu/hour. Three of those heaters and you are done. No maintenance, no fuel, no exhaust, no corroded heat exchanger, etc. The wall heaters are built into the wall so all you see is a grate. Instead of a more expensive ducted central system, many homes are heated with these wall heaters. They are not unlike baseboard heat.


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## FanMan (Mar 8, 2013)

Electric is a _lot_ more expensive than propane.  In my area, even oil is more expensive than propane.  And direct vent devices don't put CO on the room; you only have to worry about that with unvented heaters (not a good idea for a primary heat source).

If you're looking for the "nice" factor, you might consider a DV freestanding gas fireplace instead of the industrial looking wall heaters.


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## chrisasst (Mar 8, 2013)

Like electriccottage said, electric in ny is very costly.  I run a oil filled heater in my bedroom for about 8 hours a night and according to my electric reader thing, I pay $25 a month for that.  Also how about resell value.  Would one 38k btu propane heater sell faster than having 3 electric heaters there?  
IDK, still debating.


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## chrisasst (Mar 8, 2013)

FanMan said:


> Electric is a _lot_ more expensive than propane. In my area, even oil is more expensive than propane. And direct vent devices don't put CO on the room; you only have to worry about that with unvented heaters (not a good idea for a primary heat source).
> 
> If you're looking for the "nice" factor, you might consider a DV freestanding gas fireplace instead of the industrial looking wall heaters.


 
I was looking at the fireplace looking units, but can't find one that is high in btu like this Rinnai unit. Unless I am not reading right.
This rennai unit says 38k btu max is more than the englander pdvc correct or around the same..


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## jrendfrey (Mar 9, 2013)

I have the rinnai es38 it's a great heater but I've also put 800 bucks in fuel through it this winter


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## woodgeek (Mar 9, 2013)

You can settle the cost issue with:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

Looks like 14.5 cent/kWh elec at 100% eff and $3/gallon propane at 78% are the same cost per BTU. Check your local rates for both.

IMO, the PITA factor is sig higher for propane, unless you want a propane stove and have a lot of elec outages.

Will your floorplan allow heat distribution?...the comfort factor might be higher with 3 elec units around the house rather than a mongo propane unit in the middle of one end.


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## Highbeam (Mar 9, 2013)

FanMan said:


> And direct vent devices don't put CO on the room; you only have to worry about that with unvented heaters (not a good idea for a primary heat source).


 
That could be a fatal mistake. Have you ever heard of a cracked heat exchanger? Things fail and you would be stupid to not monitor your living space with a CO detector to be able to react if that happens. Not a possibility with electric.

I'm with you on the unvented heaters being a bad idea. I don't even like to work in the shop with an unvented LP heater.


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## chrisasst (Mar 9, 2013)

jrendfrey said:


> I have the rinnai es38 it's a great heater but I've also put 800 bucks in fuel through it this winter


 
Is that your only heat source that you use?


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## chrisasst (Mar 9, 2013)

Does anyone else have a different kind of propane heater to recommend?


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## firefighterjake (Mar 11, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> That could be a fatal mistake. Have you ever heard of a cracked heat exchanger? Things fail and you would be stupid to not monitor your living space with a CO detector to be able to react if that happens. Not a possibility with electric.
> 
> I'm with you on the unvented heaters being a bad idea. I don't even like to work in the shop with an unvented LP heater.


 
Saw that myself with my brother who had a direct vent propane Rinnai (or something similar . . . I forget the exact make) . . . something malfunctioned and it ended up pumping CO into his home. Fortunately his now-ex-wife had insisted he have a CO detector which activated. The idiot even called me up to tell me he couldn't smell anything, but the CO detector was going off . . . at which point I told him CO in itself is odor-less . . . fortunately for him (not so great for his now ex-) he had no symptoms of CO poisoning and was able to simply turn off the device and get a technician out to check on the problem.

And for the record . . . on unvented heaters . . . in Maine if you have a daycare the Fire Marshals will not allow unvented heaters as they feel they are not a good idea. Not a big fan of them myself.


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## Highbeam (Mar 11, 2013)

I like a gas heater, especially natural gas since it is usually so cheap to run. Know, understand, and prepare for the risks and you will be fine.

If the btus from gas are not quite a bit cheaper than the same btus from resistance electric then you would need some other very strong reason to not use electric.


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## Cudos (Dec 13, 2013)

chrisasst said:


> Starting a new thread from this one  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/lowes-roofing-hvac-install.106199/
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience / own one of these.
> ...


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2013)

There are risks of failure with alsmost any kind of heater. A decade ago in WA state there were failures of the common Cadet brand electric wall heaters. The complaints were of component failure shooting out sparks and molten metal. Some set themselves on fire. Also, some electric heaters can also pose a fire risk when they are too close to combustibles like curtains. Be safe, regardless of choice of heat.


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## Highbeam (Dec 16, 2013)

begreen said:


> A decade ago in WA state there were failures of the common Cadet brand electric wall heaters. The complaints were of component failure shooting out sparks and molten metal.


 
That was more than 15 years ago and only on a specific list of models all made in the 90s or earlier.

https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/79986/cadet.pdf

Still, your point is valid, there is no heater with zero risk.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 27, 2013)

For anyone still looking, here is a new one.

http://www.propaneproducts.com/catalog/empire-ultrasaver-90-heater-75-1.html


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## richg (Dec 27, 2013)

It can also be a resale issue if you plan on selling the house within the foreseeable future. In my area, there are no natural gas lines and if you only have electric baseboard, many potential buyers will refuse to even look at the house. A wood or pellet stove is of no import as buyers want a central heating system even if it is oil or propane.


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## chrisasst (Dec 27, 2013)

kind of looking at one of these.  

http://www.grainger.com/product/4LGD9?cm_sp=HIO-_-HIDP-_-BTM_BTB05209020&cm_vc=IDPBBZ12

seems like one could put this in their main living space. 
trying to find a something about a home resale value with one of these units as its central heating system...


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## Highbeam (Dec 27, 2013)

I just had three insurance companies turn me down for homeowner's insurance due to my antiquated heating system of wall heaters. They require a central heating system with a single thermostat. Weird.


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## Warm_in_NH (Dec 27, 2013)

May depend on bank. In 2009 and again in 2011 my Rinnai heaters qualified as a central heat system here in NH and allowed the home to qualify for financing.  

They're very popular up here and if you have to burn propane or Nat gas (just swap out the jets) they're very efficient. 

Had an apartment with an empire heater, it didn't require power but was much more primitive than the Rinnai and I do not believe they qualify as a central heat system.  But don't quote me on that.


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