# Drying Time - Tossed in a Pile Vs. Stacked Neatly in a Row???



## BurnIt13 (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi!  So I'm wondering the difference in drying time when wood is stacked loose in a pile vs stacked neatly in a row.  The wood in question is Oak.  For arguments sake, lets say my two cords of 16-18" oak splits stacked two rows deep and 4-5 feet high will dry in 24 months.

How long would the equivelent amount of oak splits take to dry when thrown loose onto a pile?

Thanks!


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## Constrictor (Nov 29, 2011)

maybe 8 or 9 years


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## MasterMech (Nov 29, 2011)

BurnIt13 said:
			
		

> Hi!  So I'm wondering the difference in drying time when wood is stacked loose in a pile vs stacked neatly in a row.  The wood in question is Oak.  For arguments sake, lets say my two cords of 16-18" oak splits stacked two rows deep and 4-5 feet high will dry in 24 months.
> 
> How long would the equivelent amount of oak splits take to dry when thrown loose onto a pile?
> 
> Thanks!



Oak will one tough wood to season in a "heapinhausen"  :lol:  as opposed to a traditional stack.  It's among the slowest to dry of all the different species.  I'd say at least 2X as long.  I've burnt from a pile before and it's not even close to the same as the wood that I've stacked.

You probably could leave it piled the first year and stack it later if you had to but if you have to stack it later, might as well stack it now and get max benefit from the drying time.


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## oldspark (Nov 29, 2011)

Oak belongs in single rows in wind and sun.


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## BurnIt13 (Nov 29, 2011)

Yeah, I was hoping I could get away with being lazy but it looks like I'll go ahead and stack it.  I'll stack the oak in a single row, 4-5ft high, and about 50ft long.  My ash, black cherry, and maple will get stacked two rows deep just to keep from eating up too much space.

Where I'll be stacking the wood is south facing and is in the most open part of the yard but gets some shade starting in September as the sun lowers in the horizon.  But by November the leaves are gone and it gets full sun again.

Now for another question.  Does covering the top a single row of wood improve drying times?


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## Constrictor (Nov 29, 2011)

covering the top slows down drying dramatically. never cover, unless you know its going to rain or snow, and you need the wood in the next 1-2 weeks.


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## Wood Duck (Nov 29, 2011)

Depending on where a piece of wood ends up in the pile, the time  it takes to season will go from about the same as a nice neat stack to never. Wood on top of the pile seasons probably about the same as wood in a nice row. Wood near the ground in the middle of the pile will probably rot before it seasons. If the pile gathers leaves in the fall, maybe most of the pile will rot before it seasons because the leaves fill in the air spaces and hold moisture.

I think if you can cover the top only on a stack with a stiff cover, not a tarp or plastic sheet that fits tight to the wood, then covering is a good idea. If you don't have a rigid cover I'd probably not cover at all unless it is about to snow and you plan to use the wood before the snow will melt. I have tried to salvage wood stacked in the woods around here and covered stacks aren't any better than uncovered stacks, and maybe a little worse. If firewood is in the woods it will gather enough leaves that it is about hte same as a tarp. If it is uncovered and somebody or the wind has kept it free of leaves that is far better than a covered stack.


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## MasterMech (Nov 29, 2011)

+ 1 on the leaves being your mortal enemy.  I used to top-cover the stacks year-round with a tarps.  Never again.  I have about 5 cord of wood (Maple, ash, and cherry mostly but very little Oak) at 22-25% moisture that's been CSS for _2 years_ to show for it.  I created a huge stack about 4 rows deep and 25 ft long and that too was probably a mistake.  I am top covering only during the burning season now to ward off snow mainly but we get a lot of fall/early winter rain here too.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 29, 2011)

Ja, I tried various heaphauzens, from your basic tossed pile to a perimeter course of stacked wood with the middle tossed in, and it never worked well for me.  I theorized that the rounded heap was too aerodynamic and that the vertical stacked perimeter was going to be the ticket, but you know... there's a difference between theory and practice.

I do two row stacking on pallets now and them move them to the woodshed later.  Single rows would be faster but I'm in no hurry and single rows tend to fall over with my clay soil.


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## ruserious2008 (Nov 29, 2011)

Had some first hand experience with this this past year. I scored about 4 cords of wood cut and split 2 years ago (for $400 fyi) that was in a pile. The stuff on the top foot or so was nice and dry (except the oak- the splits were 18-22" in lenght) but anything deeper than that had moisture readings in the mid to upper 20's (measuring a fresh split) Other species were ash, maple, birch mostly. 
Got them stacked (dbl row, tight also) and they are all measuring south of 20% now after seasoning in a sunny open area for the summer. 
I see a pile someone made this spring in town that is also covered completely with a blue tarp and I bet that burner had a real surprise when he tried to burn that stuff this year. 
and as someone said for the harder to dry stuff like oak I'm going with the single row, cutting it to 12 inch or so and am also going to stack them cross ways for better air flow.  Got some oak I'm processing now that I hope will be my 2013 wood so we'll see. I did this same thing with some apple I got this spring that I was told would take a long time to dry and it went from 36% when split to 18% when I split a piece and checked a few weeks ago. 
Good luck and stacking wood is fun Enjoy.


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## LLigetfa (Nov 29, 2011)

Here are a couple of pics of my heaphauzen experiment.  The outer dimensions were around 8' x 20'.


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## pyper (Nov 29, 2011)

We get about an inch of rain a week -- I think wood in an uncovered stack will rot before it dries out. I cover larger stacks with sheet metal.


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## Battenkiller (Nov 29, 2011)

I was pleasantly surprised to find that the black birch I left in a huge pile dried as well as it did this season.  I got about a cord and a half stacked in the spring and then I got real sick.  By the time I got around to stacking the rest it was so late in the season I figured I'd just finish it off inside come winter.  But it is burning real nice, so I'm a bit stunned that it dried so well.  

I haven't done an A and B comparison with a meter to see which wood it drier and by how much, but I'm gonna stop chuckling about Solar and Wood's mega pile and rethink this whole thing.  Bottom line is that a pile takes up more space on the property and looks a lot uglier for sure.  Stacking is still the way to go, especially when you are a true stacking artist like Ligettfa and Savage. ;-)


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## Jags (Nov 29, 2011)

In the middle of my heapinhausenâ„¢ I am pulling 1 yr white oak and measuring it at about 17-19% on the resplit (with cheapo MM).  Fires right up (and I don't use kindling).  No hiss or sign of moisture during the burn.  Perfectly fit stove chow, I would say.

Note: the heapinhausenâ„¢ gets full sun and is located in a VERY windy location and sits on cement with good drainage. It is typically a 4-5 cord pile.

Edit: I know, not possible, Right?


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## Battenkiller (Nov 29, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> In the middle of my heapinhausenâ„¢ I am pulling 1 yr white oak and measuring it at about 17-19% on the resplit (with cheapo MM).  Fires right up (and I don't use kindling).  No hiss or sign of moisture during the burn.  Perfectly fit stove chow, I would say.
> 
> I know, not possible, Right?



I know, I know.  I'm selling my stove for making a liar out of me (dang reality bites).  FWIW my heap is also in a very windy location that gets full sun all day long.  Not that we've had much sun this year.  :coolsmirk: 


No cement or blacktop pad, though, so I'll bet the stuff on the bottom needs to go just a wee bit longer.  I'd check it with the meter, but who knows where that thing went to?  This place is in a state of chaos right now.  The only things I know where they are anymore is the computer, the cell phones and 6 pair of clean socks and shorts.  The rest of the stuff I probably won't find again until July or so (dang moving bites).


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## bogydave (Nov 29, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> In the middle of my heapinhausenâ„¢ I am pulling 1 yr white oak and measuring it at about 17-19% on the resplit (with cheapo MM).  Fires right up (and I don't use kindling).  No hiss or sign of moisture during the burn.  Perfectly fit stove chow, I would say.
> 
> Note: the heapinhausenâ„¢ gets full sun and is located in a VERY windy location and sits on cement with good drainage. It is typically a 4-5 cord pile.
> 
> Edit: I know, not possible, Right?



Jags
Do you have pallets under it or something to let air into the bottom?
I've had pile of birch where the bottom pieces rotted pretty quick, (just on the soil, I bet concrete with drainage helps allot)
Even on pallets, if I didn't put something to cover the weeds & grass under the pallets, I noticed some of the bottom pieces had mold.
Location, climate & weather all vary. Some years it's rain every few days, some years (like this year) sunny & dry. This year the stacks dried fast.
Type of wood also, I have spruce that's been down in the woods a few years be good solid wood & then a birch be more a pipe than a log, it is so rotten inside the bark.

For birch; stacked & off the ground on pallets sure helped me get better & drier wood. Get it split ASAP & get it stacked, one year in rows & then to the wood shed for a year.
Spruce is more forgiving, but stacked off the ground it dries real fast & might last forever


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## oldspark (Nov 29, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> In the middle of my heapinhausenâ„¢ I am pulling 1 yr white oak and measuring it at about 17-19% on the resplit (with cheapo MM).  Fires right up (and I don't use kindling).  No hiss or sign of moisture during the burn.  Perfectly fit stove chow, I would say.
> 
> Note: the heapinhausenâ„¢ gets full sun and is located in a VERY windy location and sits on cement with good drainage. It is typically a 4-5 cord pile.
> 
> Edit: I know, not possible, Right?


 No kindling, are you saying you are starting fires with that white oak?


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## Battenkiller (Nov 29, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Spruce is more forgiving, but stacked off the ground it dries real fast & might last forever



Heck, I've had 300+ year old violins and the spruce top is still good.  Of course, you won't be seeing a heapenhausen of Stadavaris sitting out in the elements any time soon. %-P


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## Jags (Nov 29, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Jags
> Do you have pallets under it or something to let air into the bottom?



Nope - but when I say windy, I mean windy.  There are two (and another going up) large scale wind farms located within 20 min. of my house and I sit mildy higher than they do with nothing to block wind for at least a mile in any direction.

And yes, I will start the fires with the oak and no kindling.  I use a small chunk of firestarter and thats it.  It does build the fire a bit more slowly than other lesser woods, but that is to be expected.

My back yard:


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## Jags (Nov 29, 2011)

And side yard:


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## bogydave (Nov 29, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> And side yard:



OK "Flat-lander" 
From the pictures, you have a ways to go to get your wood. It probably dries allot just on the ride home :lol:
Great drying conditions, in the open sun, lots of wind. "Optimum"
Location, location, location has a major factor in wood seasoning.

PS: sounds like you need a wind turbine; save on the electric bill & the heat bill. 

Great pictures!


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## Jags (Nov 29, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Jags said:
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Not really, I have an area about 5 min. from the house that I know the old ladies that live there and they are begging me to come clean up a 10 acre area loaded with hardwoods.  I have yet to get there.  People just keep giving me trees.  Many are brought TOO me.  Heck, I had a Bro-inlaw that brought me a tandem axle 18ft trailer of logs, just to get rid of them.  I currently have about 10 cords of unprocessed wood to keep me busy.

And ya - I am a flat-lander for sure.  You can't see a hill from my place.


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## bogydave (Nov 29, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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Sounds like you can see a Mt of wood at least. 10 cords to be processed, Free & delivered, 10 acres of free hardwood  within 5 minutes :bug: 
Still have green grass! 
Jealousy here. (you know your are lucky, right? )
Good for you, sounds like you are hooked up for several years with your wood supply 
Some pictures processing the 10 cord would really "rub it in"  
"Good on you mate" !


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## Jags (Nov 29, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Some pictures processing the 10 cord would really "rub it in"
> "Good on you mate" !



Crap Dave, I'm so far behind that I still need to move this years stuff into the wash house (building right next to the house).  My "To-Do" list is far bigger than my "Done" list.


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## SolarAndWood (Nov 29, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> but I'm gonna stop chuckling about Solar and Wood's mega pile



Careful BK, I have a fragile ego :lol:


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## firefighterjake (Nov 30, 2011)

Good grief Jags . . . didn't realize you were living in such a tree-less like area . . . it's like you're living in a green grass desert . . . maybe we should all take up a collection and start a Firewood-For-Jags foundation.


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## Jags (Nov 30, 2011)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> Good grief Jags . . . didn't realize you were living in such a tree-less like area . . . it's like you're living in a green grass desert . . . maybe we should all take up a collection and start a Firewood-For-Jags foundation.



I know.  Round here we call it "Farm Land".  At this years average of 210+ bushels of corn per acre, it is one of the highest producing areas in the world.  We only let trees grow on crappy land. :lol:


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## jdinspector (Nov 30, 2011)

Jags, whereabouts in Northern IL do you live (I won't stalk or steal wood- promise)? It's flat around me, but living in a small town (Libertyville), we have lots of trees. Within 5 miles the farms are still up and running and it looks like your backyard.


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## Jags (Nov 30, 2011)

jdinspector said:
			
		

> Jags, whereabouts in Northern IL do you live (I won't stalk or steal wood- promise)? It's flat around me, but living in a small town (Libertyville), we have lots of trees. Within 5 miles the farms are still up and running and it looks like your backyard.



Are you the libertyville 60048?  If so I live 90 miles west and 15 miles south of you.  And your idea of a small town is alot different than mine.  Heck, your a burb of N Chicago.  Nearest town is 250 people.  Next nearest is 200 and they are separated by 5 miles of farm land.


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## jdinspector (Dec 1, 2011)

Yes, 60048. It's a suburb, but compared to closer in 'burbs, it's practically the country! It's a good place for me. Kids walk to school, a local bar about 3-4 blocks away, restaurants within walking distance. Yet I can still have a crap load of wood in my backyard, burn 24/7 and not get any hassles from neighbors. They "get it".


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## Jags (Dec 1, 2011)

jdinspector said:
			
		

> Yes, 60048. It's a suburb, but compared to closer in 'burbs, it's practically the country! It's a good place for me. Kids walk to school, a local bar about 3-4 blocks away, restaurants within walking distance. Yet I can still have a crap load of wood in my backyard, burn 24/7 and not get any hassles from neighbors. They "get it".



Awesome.  Hey, I have always said "If it works for you..."


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## Battenkiller (Dec 4, 2011)

This is interesting.  Several days ago I took a couple hand trucks worth of black birch that came from the bottom of my big pile.  Most of it was covered in mud, but I brought it inside anyway, stacked it about 3' away from the stove, and filled the rest of the rack with stuff that sat in stacks since April.  Well, this morning I finally got down to the layer of dirty wood, so I knocked off the dried-out mud and threw a few splits on the concrete floor.  It had that distinctive sound like someone had a strike at the bowling alley.  

CRACK!  No dull clunking sound at all from any of it.  Stuff felt dry as dry can be, ends were well checked, and no sign of punkiness at all, just a tiny bit of white surface mold in a few spots.  When I threw it onto a nice bed of coals it ignited almost instantly.  Now the stove is throwing great gobs of heat, way too hot for a day like this (near 50Âº).

This is during the wettest summer I can remember in at least 20 years.  Makes no sense to me, but I can't deny what I see.  This stuff dried almost as well as the same stuff I stacked.  I am gathering more and more respect for the heapenhausen, so much that I may start making the real thing.  Gotta admit a hotzhausen is way prettier than a single-row stack. :coolsmile:


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## albert1029 (Dec 4, 2011)

Stacked off the ground...


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## SolarAndWood (Dec 4, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> I am gathering more and more respect for the heapenhausen




Wood'll rot before it ever dries in a pile :coolsmirk:


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## Battenkiller (Dec 4, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

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I know, I know, but my wood just ain't doing what we know it will.


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## red oak (Dec 5, 2011)

I've had a similar experience several times.  Leaving that wood by the stove really helps I think.


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## Jags (Dec 5, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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Solar - if we get BK on our side - we can RULE THE WORLD.  BwaaHAHAhA.  BWAAHAHAHA. :snake:


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## SolarAndWood (Dec 5, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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lol, we don't already?  I think my next evolution is going to be a 3 metal fence sided shed that I can drive the little loader in on the fourth side.  I figure then it comes right off the splitter into the shed, gets heaped up 10' or so by the loader and then sits there until I am ready to come get it and put it in the stove.  Same advantages as the heap but I think I can cut out a few handling steps and never stack.


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## oldspark (Dec 5, 2011)

As long as we do what works for us, hard to argue with results.


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