# Englander 25PDV squealing



## billg (Nov 25, 2007)

I have an Englander 25PDV that I bought new in Sept 05. When I burn the pellets, if I have the heat setting above 2, I have to scoop out half burned pellets once a day or it starts choking off the flame. Every three or four days, the stove starts making a high pitched squealing noise. I have to use a screwdriver to chip away built up carbon deposits in the throat around the lower auger. I have already replaced 2 auger lower motors, and I'm pretty sure the carbon buildup is the culprit. 

Any suggestions on how to clear these problems up would be greatly appreciated.


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## ucci05 (Dec 16, 2007)

My 25pdv was whining excessively.  I did what you did...scraping the buildup around the bottom auger output with a screwdriver (jackhammer would have worked better).  The motor is purring like a kitten now.  Like you, I would like a solution to the problem.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 16, 2007)

try thi s, i havent yet but just recently was advised by an enterprising customer 

remove the auger and scrape the tube well to get it clean of carbon, then rub in some dry graphite (like you use to free frozen locks , usually found in hardware stores, the carbon according to my friendly customer apparantly doesnt build oin the carbon and it stays clearer. 
as a footnote i intend to try this likley within the next week and will post outcome. seems to be feasible to me as graphite is a contact lubricant and its inert so it cannot burn. hopefully i will have favorable results to post , and invite you to try it as well and we can compare results


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## packerfan (Jan 4, 2008)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> try thi s, i havent yet but just recently was advised by an enterprising customer
> 
> remove the auger and scrape the tube well to get it clean of carbon, then rub in some dry graphite (like you use to free frozen locks , usually found in hardware stores, the carbon according to my friendly customer apparantly doesnt build oin the carbon and it stays clearer.
> as a footnote i intend to try this likley within the next week and will post outcome. seems to be feasible to me as graphite is a contact lubricant and its inert so it cannot burn. hopefully i will have favorable results to post , and invite you to try it as well and we can compare results



Just wondering if you tried it out yet.


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## petejung (Jan 4, 2008)

I can tell you that I have used dry graphite on my top auger, which starts to squeal every couple of days due to dust buildup from the brand of pellets I'm burning... and it works pretty good.  Wish I had read this thread earlier this morning - I had the stove shut down and had just jackhammered off the carbon off the bottom auger tube  Timing is everything


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## billg (Jan 8, 2008)

The graphite seems to help the top auger noise, but I'm still getting the carbon buildup around the lower auger. I have to shut the stove down about every three days to chip away the carbon buildup. I travel extensively, and when the squeaking starts, my wife shuts the stove down. She'll clean the ash out, but isn't crazy about chiseling away the carbon buildup. I'm leaving today for a two week trip, so the stove will be shut down for a week and a half. I guess it's one way to save on pellets. It seems the only resolution will be to buy a new stove this spring when they go on sale.


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## webbie (Jan 8, 2008)

How would carbon (products of combustion) end up in the auger tube on  a regular basis?

Do you folks have your stoves installed with a decent pipe rise as per the stickies on this forum?


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## petejung (Jan 8, 2008)

I have a PDVC25, too.  I think they are talking about buildup right at the front edge of the bototm auger tube, not necessarily 3-4 inches back.  That's been my experience, anyway.  About the last 1/2" or so of the bottom auger tube gets a little carbon buildup, and you knock it off of there with a screwdrive (that's what I use, anyway).  I've been running my stove since September, and have done this twice. Each time, I had about 1/16" or less of gunk there right on the end of the bottom auger tube.


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## billg (Jan 8, 2008)

Exactly. The carbon builds up right along the lip of the auger tube and goes in about an inch. If I had to clean it out once every two or three weeks, it wouldn't be to bad. I have to clean it out every two or three days. 
I installed the stove in a corner in accordance with the directions using three inch Simpson pellet stove pipe, a forty five degree elbow, one foot through the wall, went up seven feet up to clear my windows, ninety degree elbow away from the house and an exhaust hood at the end. Looking at other stove installation instructions and stopping by a couple of stores that sell different brands of pellet stoves, I learned that almost all the other stove manufacturers require four inch vent pipe for this long of an exhaust run. This fall, I switched over to the four inch pipe, and at first it looked like it fixed the problem. But if I run the stove higher than a heat setting of two, I'm back to the same problem.


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## webbie (Jan 8, 2008)

Oh, I didn't think most top-fed pellet stoves had moving parts (like augers) within a few inches of the burn pot......so I didn't understand how carbon could foul the auger


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## pegdot (Jan 9, 2008)

The auger tube terminates just above the floor of the burn pot. I haven't measured it but it's less than a 1/2" above the grate at it's lowest point. The outer ring of the tube as well as the tip of the auger get some buildup on my stove as well but it hasn't caused a problem. No carbon inside the tube just on the rim. I use a mechanics pry bar and scrape it off each time I clean the burn pot. The way the back wall is shaped the pry bar works better there than a putty knife so I just clean the entire back wall with it. 

Billg, have you tried a different brand of pellets to see if that's the problem? I'm thinking a higher than normal moisture content could be the cause.


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## billg (Jan 10, 2008)

I've tried about five different brands of pellets. I have even traded bags with friends, and have had the same results.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 10, 2008)

billg said:
			
		

> I've tried about five different brands of pellets. I have even traded bags with friends, and have had the same results.



hey bill,

call me at the shop tomorrow if ya have time , lets talk this thing out, carbon issues do happen with use, but you seem to be getting it kinda quick, give me a shout, i get in the office at 8 (eastern) number is 800-245-6489, ask for mike h. i gotta specify now as i have another mike in the office. lets see if we cant back off the carbon a bit , usually its a weekly cleaning item , not daily.


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## billg (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm out of the country right now, I'll call you when I get back around the 20th.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 11, 2008)

billg said:
			
		

> I'm out of the country right now, I'll call you when I get back around the 20th.



ok bill, whenever you have time , by the way i will be out of the office from the 5th through the 10th febuary myself, just as a heads up , but my staff will be available if you call in they can help you if im not available


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## timtreva (Jan 17, 2008)

My Harman P38 started to squeal about three months after installation. The squeal was high pitched, like a dog whine, and occurred when the pellets were feeding. At first it only happened after the stove warmed up, but later would squeal every time the auger started turning.
I had been pretty regular about cleaning and scraping, but after reading the advice on this forum I really went to town with the scraper, a screwdriver and the shop vac. I also nudged the auger end slightly with the screwdriver, as someone has posted above. Dumped in some pellets, fired it up and almost immediately squeeeaaaaak.
So I tried the powdered graphite trick described above. Within about five minutes the squeak was completely gone. I'm sitting in front of it now, on turbo mode and it's running like new. For about two bucks the squeak is gone, and I've got a completely cleaned stove to boot.
Thanks to all on this great website!


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## petejung (Jan 18, 2008)

To go along with this thread - I was having to graphite my upper auger every two days or so for a while.  The pellets I had bought were really lousy, lots of dust and fines in the bottom 2/3 of the pallet (the first 2/3 of the ton to burn - they got restacked from my truck to the basement).  Now that I'm on the top third of the pallet of pellts, there's less dust and fines in them, and I haven't graphited the auger for about 10 days now, and that's with near constant running of the stove.

So, it goes to show that fines and dust can really make a mess of your auger - so try to keep the stove clean - sift your pellets (last part of the bag), and don't fill your hopper up straight from the bag - pour the pellets into a secondary container (I use a coal hod) and rattle that around a little bit to get the dust to settle to the bottom of the bucket, then pour in the pellets, being careful not to pour in the dust at the end. Then, every so often (depends on how dusty your pellets are), shut down the stove and vacuum out the hopper area. All of these things are probably common sense, and have been talked about before, but I can emphasize that from personal experience, it really cuts down on noiseproblems and actually makes maintenance easier.


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## timtreva (Jan 18, 2008)

Can't agree more on knowing what goes into the hopper. I had a Harman Invincible last season that I had to tear apart because a bag of pellets somehow had a rock the size of a walnut in it. Back then I just dumped them out of the bag. It took a day off from work and considerable effort to pull the auger, get the rock out and file out the dents. Even then, it never worked right again.


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## geek (Apr 29, 2008)

timtreva said:
			
		

> My Harman P38 started to squeal about three months after installation. The squeal was high pitched, like a dog whine, and occurred when the pellets were feeding. At first it only happened after the stove warmed up, but later would squeal every time the auger started turning.
> I had been pretty regular about cleaning and scraping, but after reading the advice on this forum I really went to town with the scraper, a screwdriver and the shop vac. I also nudged the auger end slightly with the screwdriver, as someone has posted above. Dumped in some pellets, fired it up and almost immediately squeeeaaaaak.
> So I tried the powdered graphite trick described above. Within about five minutes the squeak was completely gone. I'm sitting in front of it now, on turbo mode and it's running like new. For about two bucks the squeak is gone, and I've got a completely cleaned stove to boot.
> Thanks to all on this great website!



I also hear this squealing noise from my Englander 25-PDV, and it seems to squeal when pellets are being fed, not sure whether top or bottom auger.

I need to try this "dry powdered graphite" being suggested, can someone tell me how exactly buy this at home depot, I mean do I ask them "I need dry powdered graphite"?
Is it a small container (plastic bag, etc), what is it?

And exactly how do you guys apply this, just pour on the hopper without pellets, then feed pellets and then turn stove on?

Thanks...


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 29, 2008)

usually it comes in a tube, best place to check is in hardware , or ask the guy at the keymaking station. if the squeal is constant or lasts more tha n about 4 seconds max, it will be in the lower auger and carbon will possibly be the culprit, it may also be a loss of alignment of the auger itself , which isnt too difficult to correct, here is a link to the "how to" sheet on my website, its a PDF document that is printable.  http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/ReplacingAndAligningAugers.pdf

as for applying the graphite , what i like to recommend is to take a few cups of pelets , put them in a gallon zip lock bag with a couple ounces of the graphite , and shake to coat the pellets , then pour the contents including the graphite that didnt coaat the pellets into the top auger with the hopper empty , then cycle them through they likely will not light but if they do just let em burn. if they didnt the stove will error out due to the failed start (for obvious reasons) allow the igniter to completely cool before removing the pellets, be careful cause even if they dont light the ones that land in front of the igniter will still get pretty hot.  hope this helps ya


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## geek (Apr 29, 2008)

thanks mike, the squeal noise lasts a couple seconds, maybe 4, and then dissappears, then it comes back and dissapears again, this whole cycle can be heard during the operation of the stove.

I can even hear the noise after midnight if I happen to wake up for whatever reason, I can hear the noise from my bedroom on 2nd floor, stove is on 1st floor.

I really believe this happens as pellets get fed and auger is rotating and feeding/passing the pellets through.

Let me know if that symptom is "normal".....hope I can try this powder thing soon......thanks


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 30, 2008)

geek said:
			
		

> thanks mike, the squeal noise lasts a couple seconds, maybe 4, and then dissappears, then it comes back and dissapears again, this whole cycle can be heard during the operation of the stove.
> 
> I can even hear the noise after midnight if I happen to wake up for whatever reason, I can hear the noise from my bedroom on 2nd floor, stove is on 1st floor.
> 
> ...



how often, would you say every 15 seconds or more like 30 seconds or more apart? might be the top auger if short duration noises recurring within 15 seconds, if every 45-60 seconds more likely the bottom one, either way should be easy to corrrect, if ya want , take this to a PM so we dont tie up the thread bouncing back and forth and once we have it cured post the fix for others to read, makes for a better thread IMHO


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## geek (Apr 30, 2008)

Mike, you got PM, thanks.


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## geek (Apr 30, 2008)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> geek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mike, I tested it and sounds like every 15 seconds apart and the noise will lasts a couple seconds, maybe like 4 seconds.

You got PM, thanks.


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## geek (May 2, 2008)

ok Mike, I hit on the off button in the middle of the jerking noise and it almost went off, I could tell ....
however I still hear some "vibration" noise though while in the shut down process, similar to the jerking/squealing noise, it is not that bad though and it is also intermittent but lasts longer.

so do I need to start looking into the top auger, how difficult is getting this aligned? 
anyone has aligned the auger(s) ?...space behind the stove is not much so getting back there may be a challenge..
(I know the instructions are up there posted by mike but just asking...)

hoping I don't need to disconnect the exaust pipe and then move stove forward so I can get behind it....:-(

.


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## tommyg45 (Feb 21, 2009)

timtreva said:
			
		

> My Harman P38 started to squeal about three months after installation. The squeal was high pitched, like a dog whine, and occurred when the pellets were feeding. At first it only happened after the stove warmed up, but later would squeal every time the auger started turning.
> I had been pretty regular about cleaning and scraping, but after reading the advice on this forum I really went to town with the scraper, a screwdriver and the shop vac. I also nudged the auger end slightly with the screwdriver, as someone has posted above. Dumped in some pellets, fired it up and almost immediately squeeeaaaaak.
> So I tried the powdered graphite trick described above. Within about five minutes the squeak was completely gone. I'm sitting in front of it now, on turbo mode and it's running like new. For about two bucks the squeak is gone, and I've got a completely cleaned stove to boot.
> Thanks to all on this great website!



I would just like to take a moment and thank everyone who has shared thier experiences.  My P38 is the only source of heat currently along with a few electric heaters in remote far spots in the house.  Yesterday I cleaned out the P38 as I often do to keep it running as effeciently as possible.  This morning when I woke up, I heard this high pitch squeal coming from the Harmon.  Then noticed it only comes on when the feed auger turns on.  I was a bit paniced, as just as luck would have it, I was thinking I would have to pull the stove apart and figure out what was going on.  My dealer who I purchased the 
P38 from has now been out of business for two years.  

Harmon has no support number to call.

I found this fourm via google, read a few short posts and said, it's can't be this easy.  Sure enough, the graphite coated pellets did the trick.

I emptied the hopper, took a gallon sized zip lock back, put a few cups of pellets, a couple squirts of dry graphite powder, and almost instantly, the squealing went away.  WOW, and if wasn't for you kind folks out here, I would have been pulling the stove down on a 25 degree day.

NAPA sells dry graphite, I didn't even try sears hardware of one of the big box stores like Lowes or Home Depot.

This is a long post, and I appologize for that, but I am truely greatful !  Again, thank you to all.

TG


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