# Smoke



## begreen (Sep 9, 2020)

We are getting a lot of smoke from wildfires in eastern WA and OR, but compared to what is happening in Calif. it's tolerable so far. They say that a picture is worth a thousand words so here is a picture of the beach in SF by a friend's house today - taken at noon.


----------



## JimBear (Sep 9, 2020)

Yikes!! I went to San Clemente a few years ago, my wife’s friends have a house right off the ocean in the hills. That would of been a drag to see something like that. I can’t imagine the air quality out there is even tolerable to be outside.


----------



## begreen (Sep 10, 2020)

My error, he lives in the Bay Area. The pictures and stories coming from CA and OR are horrific. A local friend's son just lost their house, everything yesterday in the town of Talent, OR. They escaped with the clothes they wore and little else. He has set up a gofundme account to help them out. Locally a family was not so lucky. They escaped, burned, but their 1 yr old child didn't make it. 

And this is just the beginning of the wildfire season.


----------



## begreen (Sep 10, 2020)

He just posted a video from 12:30pm to 3:30pm. Amazing.


----------



## vinny11950 (Sep 10, 2020)

Horrible was is happening in CA.   There is a twitter hashtag #BayAreaFires with more posts from local residents.

Someone did this and it is very eerie


----------



## paulnlee (Sep 10, 2020)

Same crap, every year right


----------



## begreen (Sep 10, 2020)

Clackamas, OR


----------



## SidecarFlip (Sep 10, 2020)

vinny11950 said:


> Horrible was is happening in CA.   There is a twitter hashtag #BayAreaFires with more posts from local residents.
> 
> Someone did this and it is very eerie



Nice drone footaage.


----------



## SidecarFlip (Sep 10, 2020)

paulnlee said:


> Same crap, every year right




If California isn't burning up, it's sliding down the hillsides in mud.


----------



## begreen (Sep 10, 2020)

Ugh. Starting tomorrow the winds are expected to shift to the south southwest. That means that the massive smoke cloud will be blowing toward us off the Pacific. It will be a real test for the hvac and the Merv 14 filter I put in.  This is what is sitting off the west coast right now.


----------



## vinny11950 (Sep 10, 2020)

begreen said:


> Ugh. Starting tomorrow the winds are expected to shift to the south southwest. That means that the massive smoke cloud will be blowing toward us off the Pacific. It will be a real test for the hvac and the Merv 14 filter I put in.  This is what is sitting off the west coast right now.
> View attachment 263033



Wow


----------



## begreen (Sep 10, 2020)

Yeah, that is a massive amount of smoke.


----------



## Grizzerbear (Sep 10, 2020)

begreen said:


> Clackamas, OR
> View attachment 263008


Good lord.......looks like what i envision armageddon to be.


----------



## MTY (Sep 11, 2020)

We have a pretty good sized burn a short distance east of us.  Just prior to building the new place, I sold a house and put the furniture in storage.  That was 2017.  It is good stuff, and has been stored for 3 years.  I remarked to someone that I would be willing to help those burned out by giving furniture.  Within a half hour I had a call from the county emergency response agency telling me that the county was working with the Red Cross and that I could not donate the furniture due to Covid-19.  For myself, even if I ended up living in my wall tent I would appreciate a couch or bed to sleep on.


----------



## SpaceBus (Sep 11, 2020)

This is truly a nightmare. My wife and I have been slowly but steadily pushing the forest boundary back from our house after seeing what is happening out west.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Sep 11, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> This is truly a nightmare. My wife and I have been slowly but steadily pushing the forest boundary back from our house after seeing what is happening out west.


I am a big proponent of "experience leads to action". In your corner of Maine the top natural danger is "ice or wind damage resulting in tree fall". You are doing right by your actions.

In wild fire country, the best home protection is:
1. grass & under brush control within 50 yards of structures.
2. metal roofing and fire resistant siding.


----------



## Sawset (Sep 11, 2020)

Our biggest fire danger here is a runaway brush fire in march started by some innocent starting a "controlled burn" - usually when the conditions are dry, 30 mph winds and maximized amount of dry grass. They are usually easily controlled at some point, given enough equipment and manpower.  A typical homeowner has none of the right eq. on hand so would then call in reinforcements, usually on a local level, using volunteers and tax resources to finish out their day.  I thought it was kind of comical how this year with covid scaring the begeebies out of everyone that feb, march and april saw almost zero brush fires here.  Pulling resources to mend an out of control brush fire may have seemed unreasonable at the time, finally.
Is there a legitamate "controlled fire" season out west?  Is there too much development to manage fuel sources in a reasonable way?  I remember driving by an area in the bighorn mnts.  On one side the wooded area was cleaned of debris, and seemed reasonably safe from fire hazard.  The other, national park side, was a complete messed up overload of trees down, extremely dry brush laying, all set and ready to go up in flames at the touch of a spark.


----------



## JimBear (Sep 11, 2020)

Sawset said:


> Our biggest fire danger here is a runaway brush fire in march started by some innocent starting a "controlled burn" - usually when the conditions are dry, 30 mph winds and maximized amount of dry grass. They are usually easily controlled at some point, given enough equipment and manpower.  A typical homeowner has none of the right eq. on hand so would then call in reinforcements, usually on a local level, using volunteers and tax resources to finish out their day.  I thought it was kind of comical how this year with covid scaring the begeebies out of everyone that feb, march and april saw almost zero brush fires here.  Pulling resources to mend an out of control brush fire may have seemed unreasonable at the time, finally.
> Is there a legitamate "controlled fire" season out west?  Is there too much development to manage fuel sources in a reasonable way?  I remember driving by an area in the bighorn mnts.  On one side the wooded area was cleaned of debris, and seemed reasonably safe from fire hazard.  The other, national park side, was a complete messed up overload of trees down, extremely dry brush laying, all set and ready to go up in flames at the touch of a spark.


From the folks I have spoke to & heard speak about it, there has been a lot of mismanagement of the forests as far as allowable logging, fire prevention clean up & development out west. That being said extremely dry & windy conditions are often too much for even the best efforts of management. I am sure there are differing opinions on the issue especially from those out West. Hopefully some of those folks will chime in & offer their thoughts.


----------



## semipro (Sep 11, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> This is truly a nightmare. My wife and I have been slowly but steadily pushing the forest boundary back from our house after seeing what is happening out west.


Our western red cedar-clad house is located next to a national forest.
We've been doing the same as you while targeting the least fire-resistant trees first - eastern red cedar in our case.
We started by removing all the lower limbs we could reach with plans to take the trees out entirely in phases.
We also store about 4500 gal. of rainwater onsite and can run our well pump off a portable generator if needed.
Our asphalt shingle roof has been removed and we're in the process of installing a metal roof. 
Fire is truly a  force of nature.  I've spent some days in a burn ward and convalescing at home because of it.  I don't fear it but I sure respect it.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 11, 2020)

Are composition shingle roofs reasonably resistant to fire? I realize they have petroleum but they’re obviously less fire prone than cedar shakes!

We cut down all of the trees on our lot other than semi dwarf fruit trees many years ago. More because of the steady 80 mph winds through the cascade gaps than for fire but I’m glad they’re gone when my I smell smoke outside.

I’m very close to the western Washington fires. Sure, a bit smokey and we had no power for a couple days but the biggest problem was when the internet went down! Really. I can make power but school and work from home stop without the interwebs.


----------



## begreen (Sep 11, 2020)

The smoke moved in overnight. It is bad here now, but nothing like down in Oregon. A friend's brother was driving down I5 around Eugene and said the visibility is less than 1/8 mile. Even in his car with the windows closed he says breathing is difficult.

We just passed 200ppm locally. Visibility is less than a mile, but fortunately we have a good filter on the hvac and inside the house is not too bad. No fires here, but lots of smoke. Our cat, which loves being outside, came in after 10 minutes and wants to stay inside now. Here is the current status. The low numbers are inside buildings like schools and offices.


----------



## Riteway (Sep 11, 2020)

I've lived in the Puget Sound region my whole life (42 years) and for the first 37 of those, I can't recall any instances of significant wildfire smoke in the area. But now, we've had bad smoke events in 3 out of the last 5 summers. Something to think about.


----------



## semipro (Sep 11, 2020)

I've accepted that we have to filter/treat our ground water for drinking.
I never thought much about what we'd do if our air quality was bad - another good reason to air-seal the house as best we can I guess.
It seems our new paradigm requires wearing masks to counter multiple threats and I'm thinking we'd better get used to it.


----------



## begreen (Sep 11, 2020)

Riteway said:


> I've lived in the Puget Sound region my whole life (42 years) and for the first 37 of those, I can't recall any instances of significant wildfire smoke in the area. But now, we've had bad smoke events in 3 out of the last 5 summers. Something to think about.


Yes, this appears to be the new normal, yet it's anything but normal. There are stations around Medford OR that are recording levels 3 times worse than in Seattle, which just gained the dubious distinction of having the worst air quality in the world for major cities today. Medford is too small, but the air is so bad today that it competes with Dehli and Beijing on a bad winter day.


----------



## ABMax24 (Sep 12, 2020)

I feel for you, this is the first year in the last 4 where we haven't been overrun with forest fire smoke. 2018 was by far the worst, we had a 1 month stretch where we couldn't see blue sky. Unfortunately there's not much you can do, do as little as possible outside, use HEPA filters in the house, bump up the humidity in the house and drink lots of water. Eventually it will pass.


----------



## MTY (Sep 12, 2020)

Metal roof, metal soffits, metal siding, gravel lawn.  It is not exactly back to nature, but it is safer.


----------



## SpaceBus (Sep 12, 2020)

semipro said:


> I've accepted that we have to filter/treat our ground water for drinking.
> I never thought much about what we'd do if our air quality was bad - another good reason to air-seal the house as best we can I guess.
> It seems our new paradigm requires wearing masks to counter multiple threats and I'm thinking we'd better get used to it.


I'm watching the nightly news from last night right now, and they just said breathing the smokey air in the most affected areas is like smoking 20 packs of cigarettes. I can't even.


----------



## begreen (Sep 12, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I feel for you, this is the first year in the last 4 where we haven't been overrun with forest fire smoke. 2018 was by far the worst, we had a 1 month stretch where we couldn't see blue sky. Unfortunately there's not much you can do, do as little as possible outside, use HEPA filters in the house, bump up the humidity in the house and drink lots of water. Eventually it will pass.


Yes, I remember there were some really bad fires up there.
So far we are just getting the smoke. It's much better than down in OR where the situation is dire. Canby and Robson Acres are reporting a dangerous 698ppm in heavy smoke. This is just about 30 miles sound of Portland. The scary thing is that this is just the beginning of the fire season and everything out here is tinder dry.

Here's a 9am view out my office window. That's murky fug outside, not fog. Have to have lights on due to the very subdued outdoor light. 




Temps today are 15-20º below predicted. The smoke is blocking the sun.  You can not see it.  Not good for the garden or solar panels. Hopefully, this will start blowing over starting tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## paulnlee (Sep 12, 2020)

Granddaughter riding with trucker boyfriend now in Pendleton Oregon heading to Grandview Wa. sent some smoky pics


----------



## Couv (Sep 12, 2020)

This is crazy. I am very happy to have a HEPA filter I bought when I lived in Texas for the dust there. I never thought I would need it here for smoke.


----------



## begreen (Sep 12, 2020)

This image shows the changes in the past few days. It's much worse in Portland and south.


----------



## MTY (Sep 13, 2020)

It is ugly here tonight.  I feel bad for my 4 legged weed eaters, but I am not bringing goats into the house.  Our local fires were to the east of us, and are pretty well cleaned up.  The smoke is coming from the west.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 13, 2020)

Do you really think that this is just the beginning of wildfire season?


----------



## begreen (Sep 13, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Do you really think that this is just the beginning of wildfire season?


That's a moving target as the number of acres destroyed and timing have expanded dramatically in the past 20yrs. It also depends on the state. Regions vary in prevailing winds and rainfall. In WA they typically start in July and go thru Sept.  In central OR it started about June 1st  this year which is 10 days earlier than average.  In CA it depends if it is northern or southern CA. In the south it continues up thru Nov. This year's fire season once again is history-making, so the 'normal' fire season may change again looking back on it. With climate change it's anyone's guess.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 13, 2020)

begreen said:


> That's a moving target as the number of acres destroyed and timing have expanded dramatically in the past 20yrs. It also depends on the state. Regions vary in prevailing winds and rainfall. In WA they typically start in July and go thru Sept.  In central OR it started about June 1st  this year which is 10 days earlier than average.  In CA it depends if it is northern or southern CA. In the south it continues up thru Nov. This year's fire season once again is history-making, so the 'normal' fire season may change again looking back on it. With climate change it's anyone's guess.



Here I was thinking our fire season is about over and then you said it’s just starting. This post makes way more sense, we’re at mid September now so it’s almost over historically. Thank goodness. 

Lots of random pop up fires near our evacuation area have made people suspicious of arson activity. 

Today’s season opener football game will likely mean the typical firework celebrations with every touchdown. Not us, we prefer shotgun blasts, but fireworks have started fires in the past.


----------



## begreen (Sep 13, 2020)

Yeah, for WA state it's going to depend on whether Sept and Oct are wet or dry months. Let's hope it remains typical and the rains start up soon.  There is some forecast for this week. The firefighters could really use a break.

Are fireworks illegal in Pierce County after July 5th?


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 13, 2020)

begreen said:


> The firefighters could really use a break.
> 
> Are fireworks illegal in Pierce County after July 5th?



Fireworks are certainly illegal right now. But so is exceeding the speed limit. So is rioting and looting! 

It’s simply a question of whether folks choose to respect that law. 

We also live near tribal lands that have no laws and encourage fireworks year round.


----------



## SpaceBus (Sep 13, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Fireworks are certainly illegal right now. But so is exceeding the speed limit. So is rioting and looting!
> 
> It’s simply a question of whether folks choose to respect that law.
> 
> We also live near tribal lands that have no laws and encourage fireworks year round.


I find it hard to believe any self respecting tribal person would ever encourage fireworks year round. Sounds like propaganda to me.


----------



## Couv (Sep 13, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I find it hard to believe any self respecting tribal person would ever encourage fireworks year round. Sounds like propaganda to me.


Like their Casinos they fulfill a need and what their customers choose to do is not on them. The big days for fireworks are the 4th and New Years anyway.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 13, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I find it hard to believe any self respecting tribal person would ever encourage fireworks year round. Sounds like propaganda to me.



Don’t you have Indians out in Maine? We have several tribes that sell year round.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Sep 13, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I find it hard to believe any self respecting tribal person would ever encourage fireworks year round. Sounds like propaganda to me.


Yup, our local tribes make all their money selling healthy cigarettes. 
Hard to be self respecting when staring at a basket of easy money.


----------



## SpaceBus (Sep 13, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Don’t you have Indians out in Maine? We have several tribes that sell year round.


I guess they are just more conservative out here. The only store on tribal land I've seen is an archery shop.


----------



## WiscWoody (Sep 13, 2020)

My mom and sister live in Northern California and ano sister lives in Oregon, they all left the upper Midwest  To escape our harsh long winter and I stayed. my one sister said that the AQI was over 200 this morning and I said ours was 4 up here which they can’t achieve even in The best of condition. I don’t know, we do have long winters a d life here is a lot different than it is in California but I’ll take the snow and cold over fast times and fires.


----------



## Brian26 (Sep 14, 2020)

Incredible HD helicopter footage of the damage near Talent, OR.


----------



## MTY (Sep 15, 2020)

It is more than wood smoke we are breathing.


----------



## Sawset (Sep 15, 2020)

Winds seem calm to low along the west coast.
Concentrations:
Carbon Monoxide
Sulpher Dioxide
Particulates









						earth :: a global map of wind, weather, and ocean conditions
					

See current wind, weather, ocean, and pollution conditions, as forecast by supercomputers, on an interactive animated map. Updated every three hours.




					earth.nullschool.net


----------



## Medic21 (Sep 15, 2020)

We had a bright sunny day across Indiana yesterday that was almost cloudy because of the smoke from out west.  That’s unreal, don’t think I’ve ever seen that in my lifetime.


----------



## Brian26 (Sep 15, 2020)

It was smoky all day yesterday and again this morning here in New England.


----------



## SpaceBus (Sep 15, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> We had a bright sunny day across Indiana yesterday that was almost cloudy because of the smoke from out west.  That’s unreal, don’t think I’ve ever seen that in my lifetime.


Same here, we have a white haze across the whole sky. Oddly we could still see the stars fairly well last night.


----------



## begreen (Sep 15, 2020)

Brian26 said:


> Incredible HD helicopter footage of the damage near Talent, OR.



This is where my friend's son lost their home and everything but the clothes they wore and the car they drove out in. Multiply this thousand of times on the west coast this year.


----------



## begreen (Sep 15, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Same here, we have a white haze across the whole sky. Oddly we could still see the stars fairly well last night.


There is so much smoke being generated that I think it will circle the globe. We are socked in again today. Tomorrow it will be a week.


----------



## CaptSpiff (Sep 15, 2020)

begreen said:


> There is so much smoke being generated that I think it will circle the globe. We are socked in again today. Tomorrow it will be a week.


Global cooling? This climate change is complicated. 

Hey, just trying to keep it light. If you ain't smiling you'd be crying.


----------



## Riff (Sep 15, 2020)

It was hazy down here most of the day in VA and is expected to be this way for a couple of more days. Thick enough that it's keeping temperatures lower than they should be.


----------



## PaulOinMA (Sep 16, 2020)

My wife e-mailed that it's chilly in MA today.  Reduced temperatures due to the smoke.









						Smokey Skies Reduce Highs Wednesday
					

Cool air is getting booted just as quickly as it set in. While we do start with some temps in the 40s this morning, we’re rocketing back to the mid-70s with sunshine and….smoke. The worst of it seems to be behind us, but this plume from the fires in the West is difficult to gauge as it rides the...




					www.necn.com


----------



## VaForest (Sep 16, 2020)

If anyone is interested in protecting their home from wildfire google Firewise.  Most states have their own program, but there is a national program as well lead by NFPA.  Firefighters, structural and wildland, triage structures during these events.  If it is indefensible, like having cedar shakes, they won't even try.


----------



## semipro (Sep 16, 2020)

CaptSpiff said:


> Global cooling? This climate change is complicated.
> 
> Hey, just trying to keep it light. If you ain't smiling you'd be crying.


Global Dimming (rather than cooling) from airborne particles blocking sunlight is well documented.  It was validated pretty strongly when all domestic flights were grounded after 9-11.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming


----------



## begreen (Sep 16, 2020)

Our morning sun. Looks like the smoke will be with us tomorrow too. :-(  Temps are down about 10º still. Folks are getting stir crazy having to stay indoors so long. I went out with an N95 mask to water plants and pick tomatoes for about 30 minutes. That was enough.


----------



## Sawset (Sep 16, 2020)

Wonder how this all compares to Tambora.








						Year Without a Summer - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Sawset (Sep 16, 2020)

Mt Wilson. Then and now.


----------



## MTY (Sep 17, 2020)

I had to drive through a local burn yesterday.  I was amazed at the number of structures that had burned areas within 10 yards or so, and the structure was unscathed  The firefighters did a darn good job.


----------



## begreen (Sep 17, 2020)

Today, no sun so far, just stinky fog soup with about 700ft visibility. The AQI has slightly improved and we are hoping for better air by tomorrow.


----------



## Zack R (Sep 17, 2020)

The air quality is still brutal here in central Oregon. Yesterday it finally dropped below 200 for the first time since last Thursday, but it was back above 500 when I work up this morning.


----------



## Grizzerbear (Sep 17, 2020)

Just got home from work and had to take a pic of the haze of smoke in the air here. I noticed it in town today and wished I had got a pic there because it is a lot more open ground to get a perspective. I did the math and all the fires in california in 2020 has burned roughly ten times the acreage as the county I live in (dallas). Friggin unreal.


----------



## begreen (Sep 17, 2020)

Zack R said:


> The air quality is still brutal here in central Oregon. Yesterday it finally dropped below 200 for the first time since last Thursday, but it was back above 500 when I work up this morning.
> 
> View attachment 263310
> View attachment 263311


I feel for you folks. Hope the rains settle things down.  It is so sad to see these fires ripping through some of my favorite areas in OR. Your area is beautiful.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 17, 2020)

Zack R said:


> The air quality is still brutal here in central Oregon. Yesterday it finally dropped below 200 for the first time since last Thursday, but it was back above 500 when I work up this morning.
> 
> View attachment 263310
> View attachment 263311



I thought 500 was the max. How high does the scale go?


----------



## begreen (Sep 17, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> I thought 500 was the max. How high does the scale go?


There is no maximum limit. It's the count of particles in the air. For smoke it is PM2.5 that is used for the AQI. The ratings stop at 500, but it definitely can go much higher. Canby and Robson OR had days in the low 700s. That is around what we experienced in Dehli during Diwali when they are firing off millions of fireworks. At that point the rating is - Yer damn crazy to be breathing this crap.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 17, 2020)

begreen said:


> There is no maximum limit. It's the count of particles in the air. For smoke it is PM2.5 that is used for the AQI. The ratings stop at 500, but it definitely can go much higher. Canby and Robson OR had days in the low 700s. That is around what we experienced in Dehli during Diwali when they are firing off millions of fireworks. At that point the rating is - Yer damn crazy to be breathing this crap.



It got 500 in chelan this week too so I figured that was the top. So really, the hazardous category is 300 to infinity!


----------



## Riteway (Sep 18, 2020)

Whew, finally getting some relief from the smoke in my neck of the woods (West Puget Sound). This is the first time I can remember getting excited about a rainy day. My two young kids literally haven't left the house in a week.


----------



## Zack R (Sep 18, 2020)

Riteway said:


> Whew, finally getting some relief from the smoke in my neck of the woods (West Puget Sound). This is the first time I can remember getting excited about a rainy day. My two young kids literally haven't left the house in a week.



Same here! Air quality is finally down to 165 and we were just outside. Such a relief, hopefully the rain comes in strong and puts a dent in the fires.


----------



## thewoodlands (Sep 18, 2020)

Some type of structure fire is going on in Canada sending smoke into Vermont.


----------



## ABMax24 (Sep 19, 2020)

It's been getting hazy here the last couple days. Today was pretty bad, couldn't see the sky and the sun was orange. Our solar system was producing at about half capacity. Smoky again tomorrow but clearing a bit for Sunday.


----------



## begreen (Sep 19, 2020)

Yay! We're in the green!


The smoke cleared last night with thunderstorms blowing through. It is so nice to have windows open today!


----------



## MTY (Sep 20, 2020)

I was gone before the sun was up and back after dark, but it rained last night and this morning  so hopefully tomorrow will be somewhat clear.  I have to haul hay and grade the drive, so a nice day would be great.


----------



## MTY (Sep 21, 2020)

It was pretty much a smoke free day.  I worked out in it all day.  I hauled hay, graded the driveway, took some tree root humps out of the lawn, dug up the septic tank for a pumping, and cleaned out the goat pen.  It was nice to be able to both breathe  and work.


----------

