# Help me pick a 60cc saw!



## jetsam (Feb 25, 2016)

Hi guys-

  I'm tired of slogging through big oak with a small saw, and I'm looking to step up a bit.

  I want something that can pull a 24 inch bar through a 48 inch oak in a timely fashion. The saw would probably usually have a 20" bar on it, with the 24" being reserved for bigger-than-usual stuff.

  Autotune/M-tronic/whatever is a plus. I own a tachometer and I can tune a chainsaw carb just fine, but I appreciate a fuel efficient saw and also appreciate something that just works without me dinking with it all the time.

  A saw that works on normal gas that I can buy at the gas station is a big plus.

  Price is also a factor or I'd just go buy the Stihl without asking all these questions. 

  I am looking at the Husqvarna 555, Stihl MS 362 C-M, and Echo CS- 590/600/620 saws. I am open to adding some to the list if you have any suggestions.

  I have a few questions that I haven't been able to resolve with Google:

*  Husqvarna: * Their apparent anti-ethanol crusade has me worried.Their product manuals say that you can't use regular 10% ethanol gas in their saws. Is this just some kind of bizarre political thing, or can you really not run gas station gas in these saws?? I am not paying twenty bucks a gallon for magic quarts of chainsaw fuel, or driving to Alaska to buy chainsaw gas.  Also, anyone have anything good or bad to say about Autotune?
*
Husky Part 2:* Why do they list the 460 Rancher (3.62 HP) as being able to run a 24" bar, but the 555 (4.3 HP) has a recommended max of 20"? Is this the marketing department at play, or am I missing something? 

*  Stihl:* I've done quite a bit of reading and the MS362 C-M is the saw I'd buy if the competition wasn't cheaper. =D   This particular saw does have the "M-tronic" carb tuner, but it does not have the "Intellicarb", which is apparently a separate thing. Anyone know the difference between M-tronic and Intellicarb? Thoughts about either one?

*Echo: *Echo's website is not helping me figure out what's going on with their 60cc saws. Anyone see any significant difference besides price and handle material between the CS-590, CS-600P, and CS-620P?   Apparently Echo isn't offering a self-tuning carb on their 60cc saws, but I could possibly live with that given the price differential.  I am comfortable that they make good saws, since I already have one.  If the 590 is a similar powerhead to the 600, that is an extremely attractive price point.

Thanks for whatever thoughts and experiences you have!


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## woodhog73 (Feb 25, 2016)

The reason I believe Husky lists the 555 with a shorter bar range is because of realistic expectations of it's intended users. The Rancher model is marketed to homeowners and sold to homeowners who's expectations of cutting efficiency will be lower or less than what a forester or tree service would expect. I believe they are listing the longer bar to appeal to a wider audience for their homeowner / farm saw.

The 555 is the better saw. Pro construction detuned version of the 562. You can also get them in red with Jonsered 2258 or 2260. If your going to use a 24 inch bar on it once in awhile I would without a doubt go with the 555 over the rancher. It has more power.

As for Ethanol, it's bad all the way around. Props for Husky to actually tell you not to use it. I never run ethanol in my small engines. Again Stihl wants to not turn off potential buyers is my imagination just a guess. I would suggest never to use ethanol.

Can't speak for the Echo as don't know anything about them. The reason why the 555 is cheaper than the 362 is because it's a detuned version of the Husky 562. But all commercial grade construction same cases, same exact saw. The detuned version of the 362 Stihl is not actually detuned at all. It's the ms311 which is a clamshell design saw.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the Sthil name. If you take the saws apart the 555/562 platform it is in my opinion a better designed saw than the Stihl. Outboard clutch, rear slanting cylinder, makes itfeel different  ergonomically than the Stihl. It may weigh around the same as the Stihl but it feels like a smaller more compact saw when in use. For that reason I like it better. I've got the 50cc version of that platform in the Jonsered brand. Same theory applies for ergonomics and when I ran it compared to Stihl and Dolmar night and day difference.  It feels tiny compared to the others. But same performance. That comparison carries over to the 60cc versions. 

I would look at Dolmar 6100. They are made in Germany and the 6100 is an awesome saw. I believe it will cost less than the 555 but it's not a detuned version of a pro 60cc saw as such I'm guessing power will be closer to a Stihl 362 or Husky/Jred 562 and 2260. If you are leaning towards the Husky product, the Jonsered version may save you $50 bucks. 

Hope this helps


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## Giles (Feb 25, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Hi guys-
> 
> I'm tired of slogging through big oak with a small saw, and I'm looking to step up a bit.
> 
> ...


I think any of these will be fine. However, don't let the so called warranty of any have much influence on your decision. Warranties are written to protect maker, not you! Read it--MANY ways they will deny coverage.
I have an Echo CS590 and it is basically the same as CS600 with plastic handle, plastic sprocket cover, lower grade bar, and a spur sprocket. I have never worked on either of the other saws.
If I bought a new chainsaw, I would run about three or four tanks and hope it doesn't give a problem.   I would then  modify the muffler and carb. but this would void any warranty. After modifying,  tune it for Non ethanol Premium gas with 40-1 mix.
My favorite, go to of all saws is a Dolmar/Makita. But I do all my own work and dealer network is nowhere as good as other brands.


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## FTG-05 (Feb 25, 2016)

I went Stihl when I bought my MS 362 CM just over two years ago because the Stihl dealer was local, responsive and provided good service.  Now that I've had it for over two years (and will be using it today), I have nothing but praise for it.  

I started running it on a 20" bar but when I needed to cut down a bigger tree, I put the 25" back on it that it came with.  Now I prefer the 25" bar and it's been on there for about a year now.

I have a Husky 350 I have to take in for service and have never owned a pro Husky nor Dolmar etc. so don't have anything to say concerning them.

Good luck!


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## jetsam (Feb 25, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> The reason I believe Husky lists the 555 with a shorter bar range is because of realistic expectations of it's intended users. The Rancher model is marketed to homeowners and sold to homeowners who's expectations of cutting efficiency will be lower or less than what a forester or tree service would expect. I believe they are listing the longer bar to appeal to a wider audience for their homeowner / farm saw.
> 
> The 555 is the better saw. Pro construction detuned version of the 562. You can also get them in red with Jonsered 2258 or 2260. If your going to use a 24 inch bar on it once in awhile I would without a doubt go with the 555 over the rancher. It has more power.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the info! 

I do not think using ethanol free gas is a practical option for me.  I don't think I have seen it at the gas pump for 10 years,  and I am not willing to pay $20 a gallon for premixed chainsaw gas.  The closest place that I can google it is hours away.  I have read that some people use avgas from the airport, which I guess might be an option.  Also read that some people get the ethanol out by mixing the gas with water,  and siphoning the gas back out,  which sounds like a dubious method to me.   I believe whatever I buy is going to have to just live with 10% ethanol.  Do Husqvarna machines actually  tolerate ethanol worse than other brands? 

I will definitely look at Dolmar and Jonesered.


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## bioman (Feb 25, 2016)

24 inch bar through a 48 inch oak in a timely fashion. 60cc won't like this. my 7900 would do just fine though.


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## jetsam (Feb 25, 2016)

Giles said:


> I think any of these will be fine. However, don't let the so called warranty of any have much influence on your decision. Warranties are written to protect maker, not you! Read it--MANY ways they will deny coverage.
> I have an Echo CS590 and it is basically the same as CS600 with plastic handle, plastic sprocket cover, lower grade bar, and a spur sprocket. I have never worked on either of the other saws.
> If I bought a new chainsaw, I would run about three or four tanks and hope it doesn't give a problem.   I would then  modify the muffler and carb. but this would void any warranty. After modifying,  tune it for Non ethanol Premium gas with 40-1 mix.
> My favorite, go to of all saws is a Dolmar/Makita. But I do all my own work and dealer network is nowhere as good as other brands.



Thanks! 

The first thing I do after break-in is void the warranty in a couple ways anyway,  so not even considering that as a factor.


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## jetsam (Feb 25, 2016)

bioman said:


> 24 inch bar through a 48 inch oak in a timely fashion. 60cc won't like this. my 7900 would do just fine though.



24" bar and 48" oak is the occasional exception.  20" bar and 30" pine is going to be a lot more common in this saw's daily life.


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## Giles (Feb 25, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The first thing I do after break-in is void the warranty in a couple ways anyway,  so not even considering that as a factor.


All new saws are designed to run with ethanol gas. It is especially a problem with older equipment that is not designed to run it. It virtually melts/softens rubber parts over time.
One of the greatest problems with ethanol, is that it absorbs moisture and this can be addressed by dumping the gas and running the saw dry or keep the tank full--less room for moisture laden air.


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## jatoxico (Feb 25, 2016)

From the bang for buck point of view the Echo is hard to beat. I have read they are a bit more torqy, not so much a screamer but it's still a firewood saw so I doubt another couple seconds in a big cut would matter much. My own experience w/ Echo products has been positive.

If used is on the table then that opens things up a bit.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 25, 2016)

Couple follow up thoughts to some responses that may help you decide.

As for tuning, especially if you do a muffler mid , the Husky 555 and Stihl362 are auto tuned so nothing to adjust. The saw should respond to any mods by adjusting itself for optimum fuel/air ratios etc.

Mixing 40-1 is never a bad idea regardless. They used to call for 32-1 but the manufacturers have increased that to 50-1 I guess because of advances in oil. I run all my saws at 45 to 1

As for the quality in regards to Stihl. The bigger saws are still made in Germany and I know tree companies that use them with very little problems. The smaller homeowner and farm saws are made elsewhere and I've read they have more quality issues.

Just think the average homeowner who buys a ms250 or 290 etc and may run it 10 to 20 times a year. I'm assuming  Stihl takes this into consideration when they account for cost in the build and sale process of those saws. I'm sure they cut a few corner here and there knowing the saws average use based on the average amount of use.

Same with Husky.  The ranchers are good saws but I'm sure have more minor issues than the pro versions. I run my jonsered 2252 probably total 20 hours a week. Every week. I easily burn 5 gallons of premix every week. For me I feel that much uses warrants the pro saw and I haven't had a single problem with it. I'm not saying a rancher wouldn't do the same, but for me it wasn't worth the risk. 

For the OP based on the saws you listed it's hard to beat the 555. Or the Dolmar 6100. Go hold them, run them if you can. I'm betting you can get a 555 or 6100 for $200 less than the 362. They are all apples to apples comparisons and that extra $200 buys bars, chains, etc.  The 555 does have a little less power but I'd be hard pressed to say it would be noticeable, but that extra $200 in your wallet sure is nice.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 25, 2016)

Giles said:


> All new saws are designed to run with ethanol gas. It is especially a problem with older equipment that is not designed to run it. It virtually melts/softens rubber parts over time.
> One of the greatest problems with ethanol, is that it absorbs moisture and this can be addressed by dumping the gas and running the saw dry or keep the tank full--less room for moisture laden air.



Yes because they have too given our fuel options. If a company said no ethanol ever , that would hurt them in sales. There are parts of the country where ethanol is the only option.

But they sure would prefer you run no ethanol. Cuts down on aggravated upset users who don't dump the old gas and then they bring the saw in for repair, yelling and complaining about it online, etc etc it just is bad.

I totally agree with you on the moisture issue. If I had no choice I would run ethanol. But I would dump it when I'm done. Thankfully there's plenty of non ethanol here .  But the average joe doesn't always care. The guy who buys a nice stihl or echo string trimmer to use 4 times a year, uses ethanol, doesn't dump the gas out, and then gets mad that the trimmer doesn't run next season. Then tells everyone that it's junk.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 25, 2016)

[QUOTE="jetsam, post: 2063219, member:

I do not think using ethanol free gas is a practical option for me.   I believe whatever I buy is going to have to just live with 10% ethanol.  Do Husqvarna machines actually  tolerate ethanol worse than other brands?

I will definitely look at Dolmar and Jonesered.[/QUOTE]

No all the brands will run fine on 10percent ethanol if you have no option. I don't use ethanol because our high test is alway free from it at most all of the gas stations. Just don't keep the gas along for very long, just try to mix what you need for the day or for the week.

I just saw your question specific about Huskys auto tune. My jonsered is an auto tune saw ( husky auto tune ) It works great. No issues. Needs a minute or two at cold start to adjust itself then wham it's running perfect. 

If you have a Jonsered dealer nearby like I said I think theirs is $50 cheaper roughly. Husky 555 = Jonsered 2258 same saw


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## CTYank (Feb 25, 2016)

Here's another vote for Dolmar 6100, a real smooth screamer. I ran an impromptu, informal side-by-side with a stihl 362 I'd worked on the b&c. Just for kicks. I adjusted the stihl's carb first. The Dolly really surprised me, it was SO much faster than the stihl.
Mind you, this was a plain MS-362, adjustable carb, no "C" or "CM" and it seemed to be in full health, just a dog compared to the Dolly. Both were fully broken-in and fed fresh mix.
Forget trying to adjust the carb on any saw by a tach. I've not seen anyone get close with that- generally way off rich. Go by 2/4-stroking.


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## Hickorynut (Feb 25, 2016)

I am not going to discourage any of the other saws but I bought a echo 600cs-p and have had nothing but great luck with it.  I use the 20" bar as the norm but have put the 24 inch bar on to cut a 30plus inch black oak and it did a good job on that also.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 26, 2016)

CTYank said:


> The Dolly really surprised me, it was SO much faster than the stihl.
> Mind you, this was a plain MS-362, adjustable carb, no "C" or "CM" and it seemed to be in full health, just a dog compared to the Dolly. Both were fully broken-in and fed fresh mix.



That's surprising the saws should be fairly close in performance when all the other things are equal ( state of tune, bar length, condition of chain, etc )

Either way the Dolmar 6100 is a real quality german made saw. To the OP if you haven't checked them out go handle one. Pictures do them no justice. Every much as well built as the others in design and quality of materials. Built to work hard all day and last a long time. It is a pro grade saw.

Only negative with the Dolmar is I don't believe it's available in auto tune.

But it's probably $200 cheaper than the others.  My guess is pricing is inline with the echo.


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## CentralVAWoodHeat (Feb 26, 2016)

Find a power saw dealer you like in your area and go chat with them.  Modern saws are modern saws.  Yes, each has its quirks and little pros/cons.  What will really separate them is the support you get from your dealer.

I love Husqvarna saws.  However, if there was no good Husqvarna dealer within 50 miles of me, I would likely own Stihl equipment instead.  Go with the dealer, not the brand as they will be the ones backing you on all your service and warranty work. 

You know what saw is best?  One that you can keep running.


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## heavy hammer (Feb 26, 2016)

All the choices are good.  Look at price, location of dealer, and kinda comes down to what you want.  If taken care of and maintained properly any of those would be a great choice.  Everyone here has one of those saws and has great responses to say why they like it.  I run stihl, but that doesn't make it a better saw just what I use.  I have a good friend who runs husky and he loves it.  Check them all out and get what you like.  Then take some pics so we can see your new toy!


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## mstoelton (Feb 26, 2016)

If you don't mind a used saw and are OK with saving a few hundred dollars you might want to contact your local Home Depot's and see if they might have a rental saw they are selling.  They rent out Makita 64XX (This is a Dolmar saw in Makita colors) Makita owns Dolmar and these are really strong running saws.  I have two that I found this way.  They come with a 20" bar.  I was cutting some Big Oak last weekend with one and I am amazed at how fast they cut through the big stuff.

HD usually sells these after 2 years of use, and they can tell you how much it has been used. They generally sell for ~$300. 

After a few years if the saw gets tired and the powerhead needs replacement, aftermarket 79-84 cc powerheads will fit on the same saw chassis.  These powerhead replacements will cost you ~$150 - $200 

So for < $500 you can have a 80cc class Dolmar if you want to upsize the saw.  Most of the saws I have seen at HD are in really good shape and won't need any upgrade for a while.

Just my $0.02


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## jetsam (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks so much to everyone for their posts! I'm down to 1 saw per manufacturer, plus the option of scrounging something used.

I also considered Jonesred as a cheaper Husky alternative, but the saw that should have been on this list (the 2258) was $10 more than the Husky 555 and didn't have a self-tuning carb, plus 0.1 HP less- so it got disqualified.

Prices listed are what I can find the saws for new. For Echo and Stihl, that's MSRP; Dolmar and Husky seem to be a little more variable.

Echo CS-590 $399, 3.9 HP. No Autotune.   Wow to the price point. Least powerful saw of the bunch. I know I like their saws.
Dolmar 6100. $530, 4.5 HP. No Autotune.   This saw makes it harder to pick the Husky. More power, no Autotune, similar price. Hmm.
Husky 555. $570, 4.3 HP. Autotune.  Lowest price saw with Autotune. Extremely well reviewed as a good saw.
Stihl MS362 C-M. $740, 4.7 HP. Autotune. Unfortunately, price is a problem for this saw.

I place zero value on dealer support and warranties, never having had a good experience with that kind of thing.

Right now I think I am leaning towards either the Echo or the Husky. Is a 10% horsepower boost and Autotune worth $170 to me? Pondering!

I wish I could run everything on the list through a big oak tree- how well I know that horsepower numbers released by a company's marketing department don't equate to torque where the rubber meets the road (or where the cutters meet the knotwood).

I'm also going to look around a little for used saws and see if any deals pop up.


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## jatoxico (Feb 26, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Echo CS-590 $399, 3.9 HP. No Autotune. Wow to the price point. Least powerful saw of the bunch. I know I like their saws.


A poster on another site said the saw responded very well to a muffler mod.


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## jetsam (Feb 26, 2016)

jatoxico said:


> A poster on another site said the saw responded very well to a muffler mod.



I can believe that because I have a 30cc Echo that responded very well to a muffler mod, after a little screw twiddling.

Echo adds extra dealies called "limiter caps" to deter you from getting to the carb adjustment screws, which is puzzling, and annoying the first time you encounter them.

That little bitty saw has been through cords of pine and oak with a 20" semichisel blade and a modded muffler, though you do need some patience to cut big oak with it.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 26, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I also considered Jonesred as a cheaper Husky alternative, but the saw that should have been on this list (the 2258) was $10 more than the Husky 555 and didn't have a self-tuning carb, plus 0.1 HP less



I guess prices vary by dealer. In my experience shopping they were usually a few bucks less.

Anyways the 2258 is auto tuned 100 percent positive on that. Must have been printed wrong. Where did you read that ? It's a red 555. The .1 difference in power is marketing or something to differentiate them more. The saws have identical cases , top ends, auto tune system, etc.

For that matter I wouldn't place much value on the exact power rating of any saw brand. The companies probably over estimate those numbers anyways. They are all going to be strong performers. In my opinion go with  dealer support if you need it, if not then 2nd on the list when I buy a saw is how they feel in my hand.

The last thought I have regarding the Dolmar and the Husky 555. Night and day difference in how they feel. Yes the 555 is slightly lower on power. If you want it to match the Stihls power you need the Husky 562 or Jonsered 2260 version. But then your over $700. So the detuned versions (555/2258) get you in the mid $500 range. The small power difference is minimal, I doubt you will notice it much at all. You would have to run them side by side. And then it would be minimal anyways. What you will notice however is how much smaller the 555 feels than the Dolmar ( in my opinion )  I still like the Dolmar a lot but if it's only a $50 difference I personally would give up the tiny power difference for the more modern feel of the Husky. They have such small cases because the clutch is outboard so the saw is very slim. I'm only talking about the 555/562 and jonsered 2258/2260 chassis  ( and the 50 cc versions ) the homeowner / farm saws in the 50cc /60cc class  by Husky I have no experience so can't say how those feel


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## black_sab (Feb 26, 2016)

Are you opposed to buying used?

I thought about a Husky rancher 455/460 for around $450 - 500 new, but ultimately decided to roll the dice on a used saw and found an _almost _new 372xp for $650 on CL that came with almost unblemished 20" and 32" bars w/chains. I figure the 32" bar and chain was an easy $100 on ebay if I wanted to dump it, but decided to keep it. Glad I kept the 32"... helped me zip through the last few inches of a 36" oak that I was having trouble with due to the log laying awkwardly near another log. 

Home Depot rents out the Makita 64xx/Dolmar. Had I not found a saw on CL I was going to rent the Makita for 4 hours and put it through its paces to see if a 64cc saw was what I wanted/needed. Plus the easy upgrade to big bore kit was intriguing. Seems hard to beat for $590 bucks online.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 26, 2016)

black_sab said:


> Home Depot rents out the Makita 64xx/Dolmar. Had I not found a saw on CL I was going to rent the Makita for 4 hours and put it through its paces to see if a 64cc saw was what I wanted/needed. Plus the easy upgrade to big bore kit was intriguing. Seems hard to beat for $590 bucks online.



I have read that you can buy the rentals from time to time when the store is getting new rentals but I have no idea how much.


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## KenLockett (Feb 26, 2016)

Dolmar 6400 on line at Chainsaws Direct for $579 that includes no Sales Tax and Free Shipping.


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## woodhog73 (Feb 26, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> Dolmar 6400 on line at Chainsaws Direct for $579 that includes no Sales Tax and Free Shipping.



At that price then to me it's a no brainer. The stock 6400 will outperform any 60cc saw by a good amount. More power and more torque. Those extra 4 or 5 cc do make a difference.

It's a bigger chassis saw though so more weight. You can put the big bore kit on it and make it a 7900 later on if you need it or just want it. What's that 90cc ?


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## KenLockett (Feb 26, 2016)

Oh yeah!  Thinking about the 6400 for myself.  Checked dealers today for warranty work if needed and there are 4-5 listed on the Dolmar website in the vicinity of the Capital Region where I am located.


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## TreePointer (Feb 26, 2016)

Many good suggestions already.  My advice is not to neglect overall weight and power-to-weight.  Get to some dealers to feel the different saws in your hands.

For example, That 555 has higher power than some in the 60cc class, yet one of the lowest weights (12.3 lbs if I recall correctly).  

The Dolmar/Makita 6400/6401/6421 is powerful for a 60cc saw but it's heavy and BULKY compared to the other saws you've mentioned.  Now if you drop a 79cc P&C into it, it makes a nice saw for the weight.


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## jetsam (Feb 27, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Anyways the 2258 is auto tuned 100 percent positive on that. Must have been printed wrong. Where did you read that ? It's a red 555. The .1 difference in power is marketing or something to differentiate them more. The saws have identical cases , top ends, auto tune system, etc.



I've been checking owners manuals if the specs do not say.  The Jonesered 2258 manual (page 30) doesn't say either way,  but it does say "If your saw is equipped with Intellicarb"... 

The 2258 spec sheet and the Web site's product page don't mention Intellicarb, so I figured it didn't  have it. 

Intellicarb,  Autotune,  M-Tronic...  pick a name,  guys!


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## woodhog73 (Feb 27, 2016)

Jetsam after hearing the online prices of the Dolmar 6400 you should really think hard about that one. The price is in the same range as the Husky and even Dolmars own 6100

But it's a big saw. Ya it splits the difference between a 60cc and a 70cc but the chassis is a big saw. I consider the 60cc more of a medium saw. Unless your looking for lighter weight, the 6400 will out cut any of the saws you have listed. The horsepower may be close to the Stihl 362 but it's got more torque and will be a faster cutting saw if that's what your after


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## woodhog73 (Feb 27, 2016)

jetsam said:


> The 2258 spec sheet and the Web site's product page don't mention Intellicarb, so I figured it didn't  have it !



This is a prime example ( one example among many)  of why companies like Stihl sell so many saws because they have accurate and good information available.

If the Jonsered website doesn't list accurate info they are losing sales! Heck some of the pictures of the saws on their website don't match the saw ! Isn't that crazy. Look at a 2253 or something and their showing the previous version of that saw in a picture. ?!?  Just have to laugh. Poor marketing for an otherwise great product.

And I didn't know they called it intellicarb I just call it autotune. Poor marketing


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## Jon1270 (Feb 27, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> This is a prime example ( one example among many)  of why companies like Stihl sell so many saws because they have accurate and good information available.
> 
> If the Jonsered website doesn't list accurate info they are losing sales! Heck some of the pictures of the saws on their website don't match the saw ! Isn't that crazy. Look at a 2253 or something and their showing the previous version of that saw in a picture. ?!?  Just have to laugh. Poor marketing for an otherwise great product.
> 
> And I didn't know they called it intellicarb I just call it autotune. Poor marketing



I don't know how Jonsered uses the term, but "intellicarb" was what Stihl called their compensating carburetors probably 15 years ago.  Those had nothing to do with the current electronic autotune variants.


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## Mike M. (Feb 27, 2016)

If you have to use ethanol, make sure to use fresh fuel. Anything over 30 days I would dump in the truck or car, not the saw. Also, never store the saw for long periods with ethanol fuel. If cutting in warm weather, pay attention to saw temperature as it will run hot with ethanol. 

I have a 555 and have run a 24in bar in hardwoods, not the ideal setup but it works. I usually run a 20in bar. One thing about the 555 saw it just runs awesome, starts easy idles great with super low fuel consumption. I often need a break before running out of fuel.


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## jetsam (Feb 27, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Jetsam after hearing the online prices of the Dolmar 6400 you should really think hard about that one. The price is in the same range as the Husky and even Dolmars own 6100
> 
> But it's a big saw. Ya it splits the difference between a 60cc and a 70cc but the chassis is a big saw. I consider the 60cc more of a medium saw. Unless your looking for lighter weight, the 6400 will out cut any of the saws you have listed. The horsepower may be close to the Stihl 362 but it's got more torque and will be a faster cutting saw if that's what your after



That does sound great.  I was trying to stay well clear of that size range so @Ashful didn't quote any recent posts of mine back at me...  but it looks like he may get his chance!  Going to sit down and compare it to the others after work tonight.


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## jetsam (Feb 27, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> I don't know how Jonsered uses the term, but "intellicarb" was what Stihl called their compensating carburetors probably 15 years ago.  Those had nothing to do with the current electronic autotune variants.



I saw this when I was shopping Stihls.  They still use it, and their pro line mostly has both M-tronic and Intellicarb.  I wasn't  able to figure out what exactly the Intellicarb means as Stihl uses it.  Jonesered's intellicarb means the same as Stihl's M-tronic.


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## jetsam (Feb 27, 2016)

I pulled the trigger on the Dolmar 6400, after reading some reviews from people who had that saw and the Husky 555. The Husky actually has a lot of points in its favor in that fight, and would win hands down for cutting smaller stuff, but the bigger Dolmar seems like the clear winner when the bar's buried in hardwood.  I didn't get a magic autotune carb   , but I still have my tach and screwdrivers, so that'll be OK. I read a few threads where 6400 owners said they went years between carb adjustments, which seems unlikely in my case, but we'll see.

Thanks to everyone who weighed in, I'll post some pictures of it getting dirty when it shows. Got it from chainsawsdirect with a 20" bar, also have a chisel chain coming from Amazon (chainsawsdirect didn't have the 72LGX072G, they only stock the LPX). Will just pick up some 7/32 files from home depot since they're cheaper than amazon on that, and I'll be ready to go!


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## KenLockett (Feb 27, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I pulled the trigger on the Dolmar 6400, after reading some reviews from people who had that saw and the Husky 555. The Husky actually has a lot of points in its favor in that fight, and would win hands down for cutting smaller stuff, but the bigger Dolmar seems like the clear winner when the bar's buried in hardwood.  I didn't get a magic autotune carb   , but I still have my tach and screwdrivers, so that'll be OK. I read a few threads where 6400 owners said they went years between carb adjustments, which seems unlikely in my case, but we'll see.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who weighed in, I'll post some pictures of it getting dirty when it shows. Got it from chainsawsdirect with a 20" bar, also have a chisel chain coming from Amazon (chainsawsdirect didn't have the 72LGX072G, they only stock the LPX). Will just pick up some 7/32 files from home depot since they're cheaper than amazon on that, and I'll be ready to go!


Let us know how it works out and what your impression of the 6400 is after you get it.


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## bioman (Feb 27, 2016)

try some stihl chain on it. you'll be glad ya did!


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## Wildo (Feb 28, 2016)

You will need this for the high speed.http://www.amazon.com/E-accexpert-C...56684312&sr=8-5&keywords=Double+D+screwdriver

I love my 6400.

Gut the muffler or get a NOS non cat muffler for it you will be happy you did.

This saw has amazing torque.  When sharp it barely bogs with the bar buried.


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## jatoxico (Feb 28, 2016)

Dolmar seems to put in a lot of pro features at a competitive price. Let us know what you think.


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## jetsam (Feb 28, 2016)

Wildo said:


> You will need this for the high speed.http://www.amazon.com/E-accexpert-C...56684312&sr=8-5&keywords=Double+D+screwdriver
> 
> I love my 6400.
> 
> ...



Nice.  I fix up the airway on all my small engines after break-in.

What does that screwdriver do that a standard screwdriver can't?  It looks like I could grind down an old screwdriver to that shape if I really needed one.  

Related question: Does the saw have limiter caps on the H and L screws?   I am able to pop my Echo limiter caps in and out with a wood screw- is the Dolmar similar?


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## jetsam (Feb 28, 2016)

Wildo said:


> Sorry about the double post the first didn't post, so I hit post again and they both magically appeared.


That happens to me all the time on my phone.  You can delete your own posts,  though.


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## jetsam (Feb 28, 2016)

jatoxico said:


> Dolmar seems to put in a lot of pro features at a competitive price. Let us know what you think.



Will do.  I'll post a review with some photos when I get the saw,  and update it later after I break it in and mod the muffler.   I know my little Echo felt like a different saw after its muffler surgery.


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## Wildo (Feb 28, 2016)

Instead of a limiter cap The HS. screw is shaped like two D flat to flat, some of the saws had epoxy poured in to prevent adjustments. The screwdriver is hollowed out in that shape, so it would be hard to fabricate.

Humans will always find a way around limits required by the fun police.


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## computeruser (Feb 28, 2016)

For the sort of use you're considering, the 620 Echo has me the most interested.  It appears to be a bit of step up from the 590/600 in terms of carb (bigger), coil (unlimited), and handlebar (aluminum).  You can also get it with a 3/4 wrap handle, if you wish.  I think that one of those, with the muffler opened up and the carb limiters trimmed off, would be a solid, reliable machine capable of doing what you want to do.  A 16" bar for everyday use and a 27" with skip chain for the big logs, and you'll be set.

Never been impressed with the 362 platform.  Don't like the feel of it, or the price tag.  Or the fact you can't get parts online.

The 555 seems like a solid contender, but not so much so when you get a goodly bit more HP out of the 562; the 555 is also less appealing for the use you describe in that it uses a small-mount bar, which leaves you with very limited options over 20".  It would be a great 16" firewood or felling saw, though, where the reduced weight (compared to the 562) of the smaller bar mount design would be advantageous.


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## jetsam (Mar 2, 2016)

Got the saw today!  Was dark and freezing by the time I got home,  so playing with it will have to wait for another day.

Bar was in the box,  threw the low kickback chain onto the 'emergency chains'  nail,  put on the yellow Oregon I got off amazon.







Things I noticed in the unboxing:

-No decompression valve on the 6400. Edit: And by "No decompression valve",  I mean,  "Decompression valve control was stealthily camouflaged as a big blue button on an orange background"  Further edit: And by "orange",  I mean "black".  I need a drink. 

- Comes with a 20" bar and a safety chain, both Dolmar branded. Also comes with a scrench,  a torx wrench,  a screwdriver,  and a wierd very offset screwdriver that is billed as a "fin cleaner".






-Wormgear style bar tensioner,  external access to the screw.  Feels like a good mechanism,  though it has a plastic housing :/






- Spring shock absorbers

- Chain grabber hook to snag broken chains (though whether that's good for the operator is debatable,  I guess). Or maybe this is something else.  You tell me.  






- Oiler adjustment is underneath the saw.  Comes set to max.






I have some big oak waiting for it as soon as I get a daylight hour when I am not at work; will post some pics and thoughts then.






Also,  please do not notify my wife that I assembled a chainsaw in the living room.  I haven't tried out "It's just light machine oil,  not bar oil"  as an excuse for anything yet but I feel that I am perhaps better off that way.   Thank you.


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## TreePointer (Mar 2, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Things I noticed in the unboxing:
> 
> *-No decompression valve on the 6400*



I'm pretty sure I see a blue decompression button in the first picture. No?


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## KenLockett (Mar 2, 2016)

I also believe the blue button is billed as the decompression valve on the dolmar and/or Chainsawdirect.com websites.  Jetsam, please let me know your overall experience with Chainsawsdirect.com when you get a chance and of course your impression of the 6400 when you get a chance to run it.  Have been waiting patiently for you to post.  I am ready to pull the trigger on the 6400 from Chainsawsdirect.com but wanted to get your opinion of them (i.e. packaging good, good experience, customer service although I doubt you have much experience in that respect at this point, etc.) and the saw in general (i.e. is there a wow factor, power/weight ratio seem decent, good balance, vibration, ease of starting, and of course how does it do when the rubber hits the road, etc.).  Thanks.


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## KenLockett (Mar 2, 2016)

Also not sure if you are aware of it but Dolmar has extended their warranty from 1 to 2 years for both consumer and professional use.  Not sure when they did it but I read that in the News section of the Dolmar website recently.


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## jetsam (Mar 2, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> I'm pretty sure I see a blue decompression button in the first picture. No?



Well,  I read your post and said  "Of course there's not,  I looked everywhere",  followed by "Well, what was HE talking about then?",  followed by,  "Oh,  there it is!",  followed by,  "Sure would be embarrassing if a bunch of people on the internet found out I couldn't spot a large blue button  on an orange background..."


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## jetsam (Mar 2, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> please let me know your overall experience with Chainsawsdirect.com (i.e. packaging good, good experience, customer service although I doubt you have much experience in that respect at this point, etc.)



They charged me $580, no tax or shipping.  I ordered Saturday night,  they Fedexed it monday,  got it Wednesday.  It was shipped in the dolmar box,  no overpack or padding (Dolmar also has zero padding in the box),  but seems to have arrived in one piece.  I didn't interact with anyone there.  My only annoyance with the transaction was that they didn't stock the yellow semichisel chain I wanted,  but I got it fast and cheap from Amazon, so that worked out. 

I guess they could have packaged it better,  but hey,  it's a chainsaw.  It was probably bouncing around in the truck breaking everyone else's stuff.  8)

Working during daylight hours tomorrow,  so I won't have anything to say about how it cuts until Friday.


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## Dairyman (Mar 3, 2016)

There great saws. Enjoy!


jetsam said:


> Well,  I read your post and said  "Of course there's not,  I looked everywhere",  followed by "Well, what was HE talking about then?",  followed by,  "Oh,  there it is!",  followed by,  "Sure would be embarrassing if a bunch of people on the internet found out I couldn't spot a large blue button  on an orange background..."



 Black background.... [emoji6]


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## jetsam (Mar 3, 2016)

Dairyman said:


> Black background.... [emoji6]



.... Oh my.   :/

I am not sure whether to laugh at myself or go to the hospital at this point.


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## KenLockett (Mar 3, 2016)

jetsam said:


> They charged me $580, no tax or shipping.  I ordered Saturday night,  they Fedexed it monday,  got it Wednesday.  It was shipped in the dolmar box,  no overpack or padding (Dolmar also has zero padding in the box),  but seems to have arrived in one piece.  I didn't interact with anyone there.  My only annoyance with the transaction was that they didn't stock the yellow semichisel chain I wanted,  but I got it fast and cheap from Amazon, so that worked out.
> 
> I guess they could have packaged it better,  but hey,  it's a chainsaw.  It was probably bouncing around in the truck breaking everyone else's stuff.  8)
> 
> Working during daylight hours tomorrow,  so I won't have anything to say about how it cuts until Friday.


I'm a bit surprised a professional level saw is not supplied with a full chisel chain.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 3, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> I'm a bit surprised a professional level saw is not supplied with a full chisel chain.



Just remember if it has the extra bumper link that does not mean it's a safety chain or a semi chisel. Example is Oregon LPX in .325 size. It's got the extra bumper link but is not safety chain, is marketed as full chisel high kick back chain, and is a competitive choice to a stihls Rapid Super .325 which is their yellow non bumper link chain. The extra bumper link say in the case of Oregon LPX is for anti vibe purposes. But lots of people assume it's for kick back. Not always the case. That's why I run Oregons .325 over Stihls.325 it's a smoother cutting chain in my opinion but I've had people ask why I'm using safety chain ? It's not it's full chisel and cuts very well on green wood.  It just has raised anti vibe bumpers which often get confused for low kick back.

You have to look at the bumper links as they round the tip to determine if it's low kick back ( or examine the box it came in)

That said with online saw sales I'm sure it's just for liability reasons. They probably sell all their saws with low kick back chains. I'm not sure the size cut off in displacement but the saw is 64cc and it also may be a requirement to sell it with safety chain.

Eitherway awesome saw. German engineering and construction, built to last , and several hundred dollars less than other well known saws ! Awesome enjoy the new saw


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## Wildo (Mar 3, 2016)

Damn! They changed the dawgs to an even better/ meaner looking version.


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## jetsam (Mar 3, 2016)

Well,  you guys will know better than me about the chain.  I figured that huge depth gauge was a low kickback dealie. Here's a closeup of what shipped with the saw.







New chain:


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## Clyde S. Dale (Mar 3, 2016)

Wildo said:


> Damn! They changed the dawgs to an even better/ meaner looking version.



Nope, those are the stock bumper spikes. While they do look cool, they takeaway 1-2" of bar length so I'm not a big fan. There is a "European" version that are smaller, but not sure how to go about getting those. I found the part numbers but my dealer could not order them.


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## Dairyman (Mar 3, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Well,  you guys will know better than me about the chain.  I figured that huge depth gauge was a low kickback dealie. Here's a closeup of what shipped with the saw.
> 
> View attachment 176111
> 
> ...



Your safety chain is Oregon vanguard. Give it a wirl. You might like it...or not.

https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/72_73_75VChain.htm


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## TreePointer (Mar 3, 2016)

Clyde S. Dale said:


> Nope, those are the stock bumper spikes. While they do look cool, they takeaway 1-2" of bar length so I'm not a big fan. There is a "European" version that are smaller, but not sure how to go about getting those. I found the part numbers but my dealer could not order them.



Yeah, that's why my small bar for that saw is 24" and not a 20".


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## jetsam (Mar 4, 2016)

Well,  no big oak videos for you.

The oiler doesn't oil.  It looks like it's connected but I got nothing coming out even when I run the saw without a bar.

Any ideas?

A few drops of bar oil did get splashed out but it doesn't look like it came from the oiler port, which is  oil-free.







Edit:
I've started it and run it with no bar a few times on different oiler settings,  not one drop so far. 

Not sure where the drops that got on the chain came from.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 4, 2016)

Are you just idling the saw ? Or are you revving it at full rpm ? It's only going to oil when the clutch is disengaged and spinning.


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## jetsam (Mar 4, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Are you just idling the saw ? Or are you revving it at full rpm ? It's only going to oil when the clutch is disengaged and spinning.



Full throttle, no bar,  bar cover off. 

I found a service manual.  I am not sure if I should fix it or return it.  Not thrilled with the prospect of figuring out how to get the clutch off without the clutch removal tool, but it looks doable.


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## Mike M. (Mar 4, 2016)

Sounds like it missed the quality inspection area. Who knows what other problems it may have. My vote - return. Call Baileys and order a orange saw...lol


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## TreePointer (Mar 4, 2016)

Just to cover the easy one...

Is the oiler adjustment screw turned to MAX?


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## jetsam (Mar 4, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> Just to cover the easy one...
> 
> Is the oiler adjustment screw turned to MAX?



Yep.  Tried it on max,  min,  50%, and once tried adjusting it all the way up and down  at full throttle. 

Even if I turn the saw sideways for gravity assist I don't get a drop of oil. 

Maybe part of the oil pump is missing.


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## jetsam (Mar 4, 2016)

Just ran it for another few minutes after noticing that the oiler tube had oil in it. Rechecked oil tank (full),  pulled the oiler tube free of its channel and observed that the tube was also full of oil. Checked it for kinks and ran the saw full throttle some more.  Not a drop of oil on the snow.

Thinking that I will just send the saw back at this point, unless Chainsawsdirect.com wants to mail me tools and parts. I don't want to go through all the work of disassembling it without the right tools and diagnosing the problem if the answer from them is just going to be 'send it back'  anyway.






You can SEE the bar oil filling the oiler tube. How can it manage not to spill a single drop when running?


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## woodhog73 (Mar 4, 2016)

That sucks. Sounds like you might be best to send it back. Do you have a Dolmar dealer nearby ? Perhaps it's something minor or common and something a dealer is already familiar with and can take care of it or give you advice ?


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## gregbesia (Mar 4, 2016)

Yep, that's german engineering for you. Probably graduated from the same schools VW guys went to. Should have got a husky.


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## gregbesia (Mar 4, 2016)

On a serious note, that sucks. Hope you get this fix quick. Good luck.


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## KenLockett (Mar 4, 2016)

Bummer.  Let us know how it turns out.


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## Dairyman (Mar 4, 2016)

That's unfortunate. Return it & get another. It could be a couple of things but you shouldn't have to mess with it.


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## BlackGreyhounds (Mar 4, 2016)

My vote is for a Stihl MS361, I absolutely love mine. _* If *_I had to have only 1 saw, this would be it.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 5, 2016)

BlackGreyhounds said:


> My vote is for a Stihl MS361, I absolutely love mine. _* If *_I had to have only 1 saw, this would be it.



The 361 is a great saw no doubt but he already bought the Dolmar which is 98 percent of the time ( or more probably) trouble free and also just as much of a great quality saw.  In fact it's probably a much stouter construction than the 361 since it's built as a bigger saw and is the same chassis and bottom end as the much bigger Dolmar 7900, which is just under 80cc. The lower end on the 6400 has no problems if you bolt on the bigger cylinder and turn it into a 7900. It's built very well.

If you can locate a good clean used 361 at a fair price I agree it's a solid choice. But for a new saw in the price range that the OP wanted to be in I think the Dolmar was one of the best choices if not the best choice. 

Jetsam I hope you get it sorted out. Just unlucky this saw didn't pass inspection. Nothing to do with Dolmars usual quality . Keep us posted how this turns out


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## Wildo (Mar 5, 2016)

Those are not the same dawgs as mine has.  My dawgs look like the ones on the website with holes in them.


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## jetsam (Mar 5, 2016)

I got an auto reply last night,  but nothing since. Bummer; I have next week off and it doesn't look like I'll be getting any big oak processed.

I guess this is what I get for not paying the extra for a local dealer.  Tempted to just tear it down and fix it.  

I do have a local dealer (in typical Long Island fashion,  their Google reviews feature fraud,  theft,  police... but that's how we roll around here,  I'm afraid).   If they have a 6400 and if I can get them to honor Chainsawsdirect's final price,  maybe I'll return the first saw and buy one locally.  Was really trying to avoid that,  but it beats waiting through a week of vacation time for the saw to make a round trip to the west coast.


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## KenLockett (Mar 5, 2016)

If it makes any difference you might tell them that at least one other potential customer is attentively evaluating their (chainsawsdirect.com) response to your situation with the new saw.  Perhaps you could get them to overnight you one on Monday and then they could issue a RMA on the defective unit.  Depending on how this goes for you will have a lot of bearing on whether I order from them.


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## jetsam (Mar 5, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> If it makes any difference you might tell them that at least one other potential customer is attentively evaluating their (chainsawsdirect.com) response to your situation with the new saw.  Perhaps you could get them to overnight you one on Monday and then they could issue a RMA on the defective unit.  Depending on how this goes for you will have a lot of bearing on whether I order from them.



We'll,  my first observation with my customer service experience is that they don't seem to work weekends.


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## TreePointer (Mar 5, 2016)

Wish you lived in my area.  We are fortunate to have a good Dolmar dealer who can fix just about any OPE.


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## jetsam (Mar 6, 2016)

Dairyman said:


> Your safety chain is Oregon vanguard. Give it a wirl. You might like it...or not.
> 
> https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/72_73_75VChain.htm



Huh,  their ad copy says that this safety chain is as fast or faster than the non-safety LGX that I bought to replace it.   I guess I will try it and see,  if I ever wind up getting a saw to put it on.


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

So,  as you might expect,  it's not returnable if you put oil in it.  The local dealer wants 2 weeks and $50 to look at it to see what the problem is,  and promise to bill me if they have any trouble getting Dolmar to cover the warranty service. 

Guess I'll take it apart myself.  I've never taken a chainsaw apart before ; should be fun.  I'll let you guys know how to get a Dolmar clutch off without a clutch tool after I figure it out!


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## Clyde S. Dale (Mar 7, 2016)

jetsam said:


> So,  as you might expect,  it's not returnable if you put oil in it.  The local dealer wants 2 weeks and $50 to look at it to see what the problem is,  and promise to bill me if they have any trouble getting Dolmar to cover the warranty service.
> 
> Guess I'll take it apart myself.  I've never taken a chainsaw apart before ; should be fun.  I'll let you guys know how to get a Dolmar clutch off without a clutch tool after I figure it out!



Could you ask your Dolmar dealer to pull the clutch for you? I would hope they would do it for free or at most a small charge.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 7, 2016)

jetsam said:


> So,  as you might expect,  it's not returnable if you put oil in it.  The local dealer wants 2 weeks and $50 to look at it to see what the problem is,  and promise to bill me if they have any trouble getting Dolmar to cover the warranty service.
> 
> Guess I'll take it apart myself.  I've never taken a chainsaw apart before ; should be fun.  I'll let you guys know how to get a Dolmar clutch off without a clutch tool after I figure it out!



This policy is crazy. How would anyone know if there is a problem with the saw unless they run it ? If it's a manufacturer defect which it has to be because you have not used it yet, then I don't understand why the dealer won't accept a return. Worse case if the dealer gets your saw and determines it's not a warranty issue then they can choose not to replace it. I guess I just don't see the difference whether it's a large internet company or a small local dealer.

The dealer where I buy my Jonsereds told me they get repair requests all the time on saws that didn't come from them. They still repair them with the same customer service expectation because I'm sure they want to win people over for future business. Hopefully the local Dolmar dealer will do their best to make this right for you and also earn you as a future customer too.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 7, 2016)

For a problem like this I'd be talking directly to Dolmar.


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> For a problem like this I'd be talking directly to Dolmar.



Took you up on that idea.  If I pay to ship the saw to one of their service centers,  they'll fix it in about a week.  This is cheaper and faster than the local dealer,  so I'll do that if I can't figure out how to get this bloody clutch off.

Here's the corpse of clutch wrench #2. Figuring out what #3 looks like now.  I can't  believe how much force it takes to loosen the clutch.  It looks like it's just a threaded connector.

Edit:  OOOOH.  You know who fixes broken Makita saws?   Home Depot tool rental!  Maybe I can borrow the clutch tool from them!


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## jatoxico (Mar 7, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I can't believe how much force it takes to loosen the clutch.


Double checking, you know they are reverse yes? I can get the right sized crescent wrench in mine then use a large adjustable to grip that.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 7, 2016)

Yeah, I don't think softwood is going to be strong enough for a tool like that. Maybe drill some holes in a piece of bar stock and use bolts or tapped-in pins. Remember it's a left-hand thread, so clockwise loosens it!


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Hah!

Okay,  so I called Home Depot and asked the tool tech if I could rent or borrow his Makita clutch puller.

He told me he doesn't have one because it's easier to use a punch and a hammer to jar it loose,  then spin it off with your fingers.

Told him I love him,  hung up!   

Edit: He was right,  too.  After dicking with that for over an hour,  I took it off in about 10 seconds with a hammer and a punch.


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Victory!  The saw is oiling.  I lost a muffler bolt so I am going to Home Depot to pick one up and thank the tool guy.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 7, 2016)

So what was wrong with it?


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> So what was wrong with it?



Oiler line kinked back in the tank.  Could maybe have fixed it from the outside with a big curved pair of hemostats if I'd known enough to try.

It's a funny setup.  I will post pics of the whole process after it gets too dark to cut wood.  






Look!  It has wood chips on it!   *sniff*


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## KenLockett (Mar 7, 2016)

OK, so it was a relatively easy fix.  However, #1 I would now be wary to purchase from Chainsawsdirect.com since they said can't take returns if you put oil in it?? What about gas???  How would you have known the oiler was not working if you don't put oil in it or how do you know it won't run unless you put gas in it?  Bottom line IMO they should have made it right as you absolutely just purchased it.  Next, how can a local dealer opt to charge you for a repair when the darn thing is under warranty?  Doesn't the dealer repair shop get paid by Dolmar after the diagnoses and repair?  What was the $50 for?  If it was for a deposit prior to getting full payment from Dolmar then I can understand but if not ridiculous.  I for one gotta re-think purchasing from a dealer versus online and secondly if I do purchase from a dealer I want assurance that they are going to repair under warranty when needed and in a timely fashion.  If I break something that is not covered under warranty then I expect to pay but fair is fair.  And especially in your case with the saw literally brand new.


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> OK, so it was a relatively easy fix.  However, #1 I would now be wary to purchase from Chainsawsdirect.com since they said can't take returns if you put oil in it?? What about gas???  How would you have known the oiler was not working if you don't put oil in it or how do you know it won't run unless you put gas in it?  Bottom line IMO they should have made it right as you absolutely just purchased it.  Next, how can a local dealer opt to charge you for a repair when the darn thing is under warranty?  Doesn't the dealer repair shop get paid by Dolmar after the diagnoses and repair?  What was the $50 for?  If it was for a deposit prior to getting full payment from Dolmar then I can understand but if not ridiculous.  I for one gotta re-think purchasing from a dealer versus online and secondly if I do purchase from a dealer I want assurance that they are going to repair under warranty when needed and in a timely fashion.  If I break something that is not covered under warranty then I expect to pay but fair is fair.  And especially in your case with the saw literally brand new.



It was not really an easy fix. I spent most of the day figuring out how to take the saw apart, removed the muffler assembly, clutch drum, clutch, oil pump, and all the oil lines, not to mention the clutch brake assembly, which I lost a part for and had to make a new one out of whatever I had in the garage.  It COULD have been an easy fix if I'd been more knowledgeable and gone in from the other side where there was already a hole, but oh well. 

I don't think I share your concerns about buying online. If I bought it at the local dealer, I am pretty sure I'd have paid more, and then they'd have treated me to the same '2 weeks and $50 and we'll tell you what the problem is' routine.

It is good to know that if there's an issue I can't fix, I can ship it to Dolmar's service center and they'll fix it in a week for the cost of shipping.

Overall, I'd say that both dealers (online and local) met my expectations pretty exactly. (Neither one was what I hoped for, but both were what I expected!) Notice how it's 'illegal' for me to ship the chainsaw back to chainsawdirect.com, but apparently not for me to ship it to Dolmar's service center"? Yup yup.  I'd rather have them lie to me about that than have a local dealer sit on the saw for a month and then charge me who knows what.

From the other side of this whole experience, I'm kind of glad it happened, because now if anything goes wrong with the oiler or clutch or clutch brake, I know how to fix it, plus I got to plan my muffler mod.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 7, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I don't think I share your concerns about buying online. If I bought it at the local dealer, I am pretty sure I'd have paid more, and then they'd have treated me to the same '2 weeks and $50 and we'll tell you what the problem is' routine.



I'm glad you got it fixed. 

I think though this depends on the dealer. Yes you can save by purchasing online I agree. But there is something to be said about dealer service.

Many years ago I purchased a Stihl 036 brand new. I had a problem with the coil after roughly 3 tanks of gas. They fixed it for free. Another 3 tanks or so it happened again. I brought it back very frustrated. The owner thanked me for my business, took my 036 back ( having run 6 plus tanks of fuel in it ) and took a brand new 036 off the shelf and said here have this one. No questions asked.

He also gave me an extra bar and 2 spare chains for my troubles and time spent going back and forth. 

I personally always support local business whenever I can. 

Not trying to be a jerk because I like a good deal as much as the other guy. And I'm glad you got the saw sorted out.

I live in logging country so honestly the saw shops near me have to provide good service or else they are out of business.


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Okay! As promised, here's New Saw Surgery. As mentioned, I have never taken a chainsaw apart before. As you might expect, it was a lot more involved than it really needed to be, but I learned a lot! 






So here's the saw before I took anything apart. Oil should come out of that green tube and blorp onto the chain. Oil not come out! Problem!  Dealers say go jump in lake!  Also problem!  Happily, (and maybe accidentally), Baileys Online has the service manual for this saw where google can see it. I might not know what the hell I'm doing, but I have instructions! How bad could it be?






D-ring- washer, drive sprocket come off the clutch cover. Set the brake.






Push the brake towards release a little bit- enough to loosen the band just enough to pull the clutch cover off. If you release the brake, put it back on and try again.






Take the brake spring cover off. It just has that one little slotted screw holding it on. At this point, if you're going for the oil pump, you should also take the brake itself off; I didn't do it until later because I didn't think it would be in the way.






The service manual tells you to take this little piece of foam out next. I did.  Why is it in there in the first place? For what possible reason did I take it out and then put it back later?  Good questions. Leave the little piece of foam alone. Also, see that little black pin in the brake linkage, looks like the rounded end of a black screw?  That is a little pin that is held in its spot by nothing whatsoever after you take the plastic cover off. If this proves a surprise to you, you may well lose it like I did and then be surprised that your saw has no brake.  More on this later. 





We have to take the whole muffler assembly off so we can jam something in the cylinder, so we can pop the clutch loose. That little triangular thing is a muffler bracket. 3 screws including that sneaky one on the side.  Also, see those 3-tabbed stainless steel dealies at the top of the muffler? They're caps that I imagine are supposed to keep wood chips out of the recessed holes for the muffler screws; they just pull off. Take them off and get the two screws underneath them, plus the third longer muffler screw up top. Don't drop the aluminum standoff or the muffler gasket.






Here's the muffler assembly free of the saw.






Hello, Mr. Cylinder! We need to jam that piston using the special magic Dolmar Cylinder Wedge. Oh, wait, we don't have any special magic Dolmar tools.






Plastic coat hanger, stuffed with wood, wrapped in duct tape. Boom.  You want something that is strong enough to get hammered between two pieces of metal but which will not scratch said metal or leave any little bits of anything behind! Make sure it's strongish, soft, and clean.






Super duper pistonjammer in action. Mock me if you must, but it worked.  Now that the piston's jammed, we can pop the clutch loose!






I looked at the drawing of the Dolmar clutch tool and decided that I needed a 3 pronged wrench with a retaining cap to stop clutch parts from spraying across the room. Behold.






Well, that didn't work, and I put a dent in my hand besides. Time for a bigger better clutch puller tool!






Well, that didn't work, and it broke my 2x4 besides. Time to call Home Depot and ask the tool guy if I can borrow his Makita clutch puller. He tells me he doesn't have one because it's easier to use a punch and a hammer to pop it loose.   .... well, he is SO RIGHT. I don't even have a picture of this because it worked so fast. It's reverse threaded, so put a big punch or big screwdriver down in there and bang it clockwise.






The white thing is the clutch drive for the oil pump. Behind it.... the promised land! The oil pump herself!!  It looks like the drive thing is in good shape.






Two screws are all that separate me from inspecting the pump and its plumbing. Well, that and that pesky brake, which I can now see is going to need to come out.






I'm not sure if there's going to be oil everywhere when I pull the pump, so I drain the saw. That saw holds a LOT of oil!  Let's see if I can remember which glass has my drink in it and which one is significantly less tasty. (Editorial note: By the end of this adventure, I did indeed get to taste bar oil several times, but not because I drank from the wrong glass.)






Someone who knew anything about chainsaws would have said, "Hey, I think I see the problem!" at this point.  That someone was not me.  I was also not the guy who drained the oil and saw the problem before he took anything apart. But if I knew what I was doing, you wouldn't have this photo essay to entertain you, so there's that.






Pop the brake band out, remove two pump screws, and the pump lifts right out with a little wiggling. At this point, I saw what I thought was the problem: NOTHING connects the feed tube and the oil pump.  I checked the exploded diagram in the service manual to see what was supposed to be there, and the answer is: NOTHING.  WTF, Dolmar people.  That green tube end just kind of sits on the outside of a hole in the pump. So if your saw drips oil out the case sometimes, that's a design feature.   The black tube is the supply line from the oil tank.... IT gets a nice aluminum 1/8"  barb connector on the oil pump. Unlike the green discharge tube, which just kind of sits on a hole in the pump and hopes for the best. Did I say 'WTF' yet?






Here's the plumbing for the oil supply from the tank to the pump. Plastic L-barb on the straight side, and the aluminum barb on the oil pump goes into the other side. Notice how both sides of the tubing have some sort of appropriate connector to allow fluid transfer? Are you taking notes, Dolmar? I am able to blow air through this line. The bar oil tastes about like you'd expect.  The green thing in the photo comes out next- it just snaps in, pry it gently out with a flat screwdriver and a pair of needlenose.






Holy cow, I just pulled the intestines out of my saw.  Lookit that. I can blow air through the intestines and filter, too. Bar oil still tastes about like you'd expect.






Blew air through the green output tube. Bar oil still tasting mighty fine.  Hooked the green tube to the input side of the oil pump and used it to try to draw some oil through the pump to see if it worked.  It did not work. Not sure if this means the pump is defective or that it was just operating at about 13,440 RPM less than it was designed to. Results inconclusive. Took the pump apart as much as I could, looked okay, put it back together.






Put everything back together. Clutch took three tries because I kept getting the brake wrong (it's easy to get part of it underneath the clutch cover; it goes AROUND the clutch cover.) Hey, look what you can see under the oil cap now.






Took her out and tested it... and THE OILER WORKS! Huzzah!  One thing I did not know when I took this photo:  See the linkage pin that makes the brake work? The little black one we talked about above, the one that's not retained by anything?  You don't?  That's because it's not there. If it's not there, the saw has no brakes. I soon discover that my saw has no brakes, I find out why, and spend 30 minutes crawling around looking that that stupid black pin (and the muffler screw that I lost).






SO, the pin and the screw both fell into an alternate plane of reality on the way to the floor, and are not to be found.  I hope they're happy in their new life; perhaps in the happier universe they went to one of them will win the next Presidential election.  I know I would vote Pin or Screw in a heartbeat.  Since they're off having those wacky adventures, I fabricate a new pin using a roofing nail and a file. Works fine.  I go to Home Depot and get a new muffler screw- 5mm x 0.8mm x 20mm cap screw. It has an Allen head instead of a Torx one, which is annoying, but at this point I just want my damn saw to work.







This is out of order, but look how beat up my cylinder jammer got!   Everyone suffered today.






...but now the suffering's over, and the saw is oiling nicely and it has WOOD CHIPS and SAWDUST on it!!  Huzzah!

I did not learn for sure what the problem was. My first guess is that the oil feed line was all kinked up inside the oil tank.  My second guess is that the oil pump had some sort of problem that was resolved, as so many problems in my house are, by my disassembling it and squinting thoughtfully at it. My third guess is that the discharge line was sitting crooked underneath the oil pump, and since only hope and good intentions join the oil pump and the discharge line, it didn't work.

I DID learn lots of other things, starting with "If you have an oiler problem, one side of the saw has a big hole that leads to the most likely problem, OR you could take the whole damn saw apart and dig through from the far side, whatever floats your boat."

Special thanks to jatoxico and Jon1270, who gave me some good tech support inline, the web guy at bailey's online who accidentally left the Dolmar service manual lying around, and a big "hoo-rah" to the Home Depot tool tech who told me to forget the magic clutch popper tool and just hit it with a hammer. =D


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

Oh, and an actual saw review: That thing cuts like a beast. I can't say I buried the bar since the rear 2" of the bar are occupied by gigantic Dolmar Brand Tree Stabbers, but I buried as much of the bar as I could in oak and she didn't bog down. This is before the muffler mod and retuning!  I am impressed.  It really chews through the gas and oil, but man it cuts fast.

At a very rough guess, it was cutting about 10x faster than my little 30cc echo with 18" of bar in oak, and maybe 2x as fast on small stuff.  (This comparison is a little unfair since the Echo had been run a full tank and a half since its last sharpening, and the Dolmar had a fairly sharp chain on it- Oregon factory sharp.)


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I personally always support local business whenever I can.
> 
> Not trying to be a jerk because I like a good deal as much as the other guy. And I'm glad you got the saw sorted out.
> 
> I live in logging country so honestly the saw shops near me have to provide good service or else they are out of business.



If you met some of my local businesses you would buy online too!

You're not coming off like a jerk.

I live on Long Island; your average person here would run screaming if they ever came face to face with a real live tree. Saw shops here are pretty much only patronized by landscapers and arborists.

There are a couple of us rogue wood cutting hearth.com members here also though, apparently!


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## D8Chumley (Mar 7, 2016)

It's a shame you had to tear apart your brand new saw but good to see its working proper now. My favorite part was the " disassembling and squinting thoughtfully at it" That made me lol


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## jetsam (Mar 7, 2016)

D8Chumley said:


> It's a shame you had to tear apart your brand new saw but good to see its working proper now. My favorite part was the " disassembling and squinting thoughtfully at it" That made me lol



I swear that fixes stuff. I don't know how many things I've taken apart and put back together and was surprised to find that it worked afterwards.


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## KenLockett (Mar 8, 2016)

Your certainly MUCH more ambitious than me if I were in the same circumstance.  A used saw I would certainly dive into it like you did.  A new saw absolutely not.  I give you credit though.  Impressive undertaking on your end.  Glad it worked out for you.  Guy has a Jonsered Turbo 2165 with little use posted for sale at $375 that I have inquired about.  Haven't heard back from him yet.  By the way, those dawgs are a bit large and obtrusive if you ask me on the Dolmar.  Are they as 'bothersome' as they look to me?


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## KenLockett (Mar 8, 2016)

Your certainly MUCH more ambitious than me if I were in the same circumstance.  A used saw I would certainly dive into it like you did.  A new saw absolutely not.  I give you credit though.  Impressive undertaking on your end.  Glad it worked out for you.  Guy has a Jonsered Turbo 2165 with little use posted for sale at $375 that I have inquired about.  Haven't heard back from him yet.  By the way, those dawgs are a bit large and obtrusive if you ask me on the Dolmar.  Are they as 'bothersome' as they look to me?


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

W


KenLockett said:


> Your certainly MUCH more ambitious than me if I were in the same circumstance.  A used saw I would certainly dive into it like you did.  A new saw absolutely not.  I give you credit though.  Impressive undertaking on your end.  Glad it worked out for you.  Guy has a Jonsered Turbo 2165 with little use posted for sale at $375 that I have inquired about.  Haven't heard back from him yet.  By the way, those dawgs are a bit large and obtrusive if you ask me on the Dolmar.  Are they as 'bothersome' as they look to me?



Well,  I won't  bash them too much because I haven't done any felling with it yet,  only bucking.  But for bucking they are kind of in the way,  yes.  I have some 40"+ oak on the ground behind my house,  so I figured the 20" bar would be good enough,  only to discover that it's effectively a 17.5" bar.

It's only 6 screws to take them off,  but I am leaving them on until I get used to the saw.  The saw is definitely a little safer with them on if you keep them close to the cut.

I had an unexpected kickback from a slight pinch yesterday that they caught.  I was standing 90 degrees out of line and would have been fine if the saw had somehow flown straight out of the cut,  but it was nice to see it catch on the spikes.

I suspect I will like them a lot for felling (as long as the tree is 35" or under; otherwise I may like them a lot less    ).

It does seem like they could be an inch or so shorter without compromising their function at all.  One wonders if the marketing department had a hand in their sizing.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 8, 2016)

Pro Safety makes three different aftermarket spike patterns for it.


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Pro Safety makes three different aftermarket spike patterns for it.
> 
> View attachment 176399



Good to know,  though I have a jigsaw and an assortment of files.  

Maybe I'll drop chainsawsdirect.com a line and let them know that I did a day's work for them as a chainsaw tech,  but they can pay me in bars and chains and spikes.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 8, 2016)

Those spikes do look large. They look cool though so I agree with the marketing department having input in the design.

I think you will like them for felling big stuff. Really that's all they are mainly designed for to help hold a heavy saw in a horizontal cut. Sure they can help to some degree with bucking but honestly I'd probably take them off it were my saw for bucking, or find a shorter pair ( or longer bar )  I wonder if Dolmar offers a smaller size spike ? If not they should so users can have options.

I suppose if your handy with one of those aluminum metal cutting machines and just happened to have a tooling machine capable of machining new felling spikes, this would be a great idea as a side business to produce , market, and sell smaller spikes online to fit this saw.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 8, 2016)

My message crossed before I saw Jon1270s response . Looks like someone already offers smaller spikes. Scratch that idea as a side business


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Those spikes do look large. They look cool though so I agree with the marketing department having input in the design.
> 
> I think you will like them for felling big stuff. Really that's all they are mainly designed for to help hold a heavy saw in a horizontal cut. Sure they can help to some degree with bucking but honestly I'd probably take them off it were my saw for bucking, or find a shorter pair ( or longer bar )  I wonder if Dolmar offers a smaller size spike ? If not they should so users can have options.
> 
> I suppose if your handy with one of those aluminum metal cutting machines and just happened to have a tooling machine capable of machining new felling spikes, this would be a great idea as a side business to produce , market, and sell smaller spikes online to fit this saw.



If I don't like them I will clamp them together and shorten them up with my jigsaw. As long as they still have points at the end and they're both cut the same,  I don't think I could screw that up too badly.


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

The title of this thread is getting less and less relevant.


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

KenLockett said:


> Your certainly MUCH more ambitious than me if I were in the same circumstance.



Maybe not ambitious.  I am on vacation this week and it's going to be 60+ degrees by day. 

I did NOT want to hear that my new saw was down for 1-4 weeks!  I have oak to split.


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## woodhog73 (Mar 8, 2016)

jetsam said:


> If I don't like them I will clamp them together and shorten them up with my jigsaw. As long as they still have points at the end and they're both cut the same,  I don't think I could screw that up too badly.



You did such a great job fixing your saw I'm certain your spikes will come out awesome. 

Are the inner and outer spikes the same bolt pattern ?I suppose if you are ok with just one inside spike then you could leave one spike large for big felling and just shorten up one spike to use in other applications. That way you would have 2 different sized spikes.


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## Jon1270 (Mar 8, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Good to know, though I have a jigsaw and an assortment of files.



What, no EDM machine? Piker.


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> What, no EDM machine? Piker.



I had a laser die cutter, but I left it in my pants pocket when I did the laundry one day and now I'm down to just the jigsaw.


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## jetsam (Mar 8, 2016)

I went to start it today and it wouldn't start.  Started taking things apart again- Had spark,  had gas,  had air....  told it that it was the worst saw ever and that I couldn't be fixing it every day....  the  I noticed the spark plug was wet in an 'operator error'  kind of way. 


Apologized to the saw and went to go cut wood.  She ran like a champ.   LA LA LA!


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Mar 9, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I went to start it today and it wouldn't start.  Started taking things apart again- Had spark,  had gas,  had air....  told it that it was the worst saw ever and that I couldn't be fixing it every day....  the  I noticed the spark plug was wet in an 'operator error'  kind of way.
> 
> 
> Apologized to the saw and went to go cut wood.  She ran like a champ.   LA LA LA!


Jetsam, good story, and I admire your tenacity.  Hope you get lots of use outta that new Dolmar, you've earned it.


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## Sprinter (Mar 9, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I think though this depends on the dealer. Yes you can save by purchasing online I agree. But there is something to be said about dealer service.


That's true.  Certainly there are dealers who only want your bucks and don't remember you later Been there, done that.  But it's been totally different here.  My tractor dealer (Kubota, Husqvarna, etc) bends over backward on service and parts issues (even warranties).  They did a recall service on a Honda generator I didn't even buy from them while I waited.  They know that they compete with on-line sources and they know that their existence depends on local satisfied customers.  And with every purchase I've made with them they have given me discounts and freebies that were worth more than I would have gotten by going on line.


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## 21c.Hewer (May 13, 2016)

I've had the Echo CS-590 for about 2 years now and couldn't be happier! I bought it from HD and used a Harbor Frieght 20% Off coupon (HD accepts competitor coupons for those of you that don't know). I use ethanol free gas from a specialty gas station with Echo mix as well as Echo brand oil. Runs great out of the box. I did the muffler mod and pulled the carb adjust screw limiters and it now runs unbelievable. I bought Echo's 27" bar and can plow through just about anything with it. Best bag for your buck IMO! 
If it helps any, I also run a ripping chain on the 27" with my Granberg Alaskan Mill. The only time it has bogged down was when I was pushing it through a 24" red oak log. That was the result of a chain that was less then sharp as well as trying to beat the sunset!


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## TJ1 (May 16, 2016)

Last year I bought a Stihl 441 C M with a 25 inch bar. Easiest chainsaw to start I ever had and this thing just RIP's through big logs. It has become my go to saw due to its cutting speed and ease to start. My other saw is a Huskie with a 18 inch bar and the Stihl will rip through a log in a quarter of the time.


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## 21c.Hewer (May 17, 2016)

As much as I love my Echo, I will say, that SOB is FRIGG'N HEAVY! I'm not old, but I'm certainly not young and I'm in average shape (whatever that means). Having to swing the 590 + 27" bar around for a few hours is a lot like shooting the Barret .50 cal rifle. It's a lot of fun at first but towards the end of the day you starting thinking "I don't want to do this anymore, I hurt!" Or how after you send the first 5 rounds down range you giggle like a school girl but after that it just feels like your getting punched in the nose. I think I'm getting off topic...sorry. The extra weight, however, works great for balance and control. Just don't try and take any overhead limbs with it.


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## jetsam (May 18, 2016)

21c.Hewer said:


> I think I'm getting off topic...sorry.



I wonder how big a tree you could fell with .50 BMG. As long as the round retained sufficient velocity to make a good sized exit wound, you could in theory control the direction of the fall, even.

I'd call for a field trip but the gun costs the same as my car and the ammo isn't cheap either


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## 21c.Hewer (May 18, 2016)

You do have a point! I was able to shoot it on the governments dime so I didn't have to shoulder that cost. Unfortunately, tree felling on the range wasn't in there plan! With some AP or incendiary rounds, you could drop a tree in no time! Good times


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## Jags (May 18, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I noticed the spark plug was wet in an 'operator error' kind of way.


I once had an argument with the back seater in an F14 that OFF does NOT stand for ON FULL FORCE.

Lets stick with two strokes for dropping trees.


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## jetsam (May 19, 2016)

21c.Hewer said:


> You do have a point! I was able to shoot it on the governments dime so I didn't have to shoulder that cost. Unfortunately, tree felling on the range wasn't in there plan! With some AP or incendiary rounds, you could drop a tree in no time! Good times



I would think that AP or sabot would be worse than ball, since the exit wound might be about the same size as the entry wound. (I am guessing, having never actually shot a tree with AP.)

I've never fired incendiary ammo- could you really knock over a tree with it? I don't even know how the shells are put together or what's in 'em.

In other news, the topic of this thread is officially very outdated.


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## jetsam (May 19, 2016)

Jags said:


> I once had an argument with the back seater in an F14 that OFF does NOT stand for ON FULL FORCE.
> 
> Lets stick with two strokes for dropping trees.



I hear that 20mm gatling cannons work pretty good for that... not that you'll impress any A10 pilots... but you'll impress ME!


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## woodhog73 (May 19, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I've never fired incendiary ammo- could you really knock over a tree with it?



I would think so.

Actually if you got yourself an AR that's chambered in 308 and a 100 round magazine clip I'd venture a guess your standard 308 fired 100 plus rounds in a small tree like 6 or 8 inch softwood would take so much structure out of the wood the tree would fall. Less rounds on heavy leaners.

I've never tried it. 308 ammo is expensive I can't see blowing 100 rounds into a skinny pine tree. But at say 30 yards I think 100 plus rounds in the same general area would obliterate a small soft wood tree

Darn it now I'm curious I'm gonna go see how many boxes of 308 I have and take a walk in the woods. Lol


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## jetsam (May 19, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Darn it now I'm curious I'm gonna go see how many boxes of 308 I have and take a walk in the woods. Lol



I have about 150 rounds of .30-30 purchased in the 1990s that could be used for such an experiment.

On one hand, I feel like I should use it; on the other hand, every time I use old ass ammo, I get that round that just goes 'click'.  Then it's that special time when a reasonable person would jam the gun in a safe direction and go do something else for a while, but in which I try to wait it out. 

 I use the time to think.  "How long is it before you're really sure that old primer isn't doing a slow burn? Will ejecting the round kick it off? The shell being lighter than the bullet, wouldn't the shell be the most dangerous projectile? Has the local ER ever seen someone with a brass shell embedded in their forehead before?  How much shrapnel would there be if it went off as soon as the ejector kicked it?  Surely by NOW it would have gone off if it was going to, right?  I should just eject the damn thing.  Of course, I don't like shrapnel and this is an expensive gun. Look how close the ejector port is to my squishy eyeballs. Maybe another minute. Maybe if I dug a hole and ejected the round into that. I don't have all day here.  Of course expensive gun, squishy eyeballs. Hmmm. Maybe one more minute..."

(And to those wanting to point out that I could avoid all this by not using vintage ammo, I say, 'Hold my beer and watch this!')


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## Jags (May 20, 2016)

This thread is so far in da weeds I think it is time to give it a dignified EOL.  Hopefully the OP has got his saw by now.


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