# So, split wood takes up more cubic feet than rounds....



## BrowningBAR (Sep 30, 2009)

Just got off the phone with a wood supplier. He is selling wood for $150 per cord (not bad...if it is an actual cord). I said I am interested in uncut rounds and he says they have them for $60 per pickup truck load.

I questioned the price saying that split wood tightly packed in a full size pickup is only about 1/3 of a cord. Uncut rounds wouldn't be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150.

"No!" says the supplier. "Once you split those rounds a pickup truck load will give you nearly a cord of wood", he says with confidence.

"Yeah, good luck with that" says I.


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## smokinj (Sep 30, 2009)

this depends on the pick up I have seen a cord of rounds on a pick up. and if your stacking splitts a 1/2 cord no problem with a 3/4 ton just I depends on the truck


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 30, 2009)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> this depends on the pick up I have seen a cord of rounds on a pick up. and if your stacking splitts a 1/2 cord no problem with a 3/4 ton just I depends on the truck




Either way split wood does not equal to MORE than rounds. A 1/3 cord of rounds does not equal to 'nearly' 1 cord of split wood.


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## smokinj (Sep 30, 2009)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

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he selling it by the pick up load and your talking cords you two are on differnt pages here.His pick up load could be alot more wood then you think


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## BrowningBAR (Sep 30, 2009)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Again, I'll repeat the first post: he is selling wood for $150 per cord delivered. Or I can pick up split rounds for $60 a pick up truck load with his claim that 1/3 of a cord of rounds is nearly a cord when split.

You would have to be an idiot to think that:
1. that is a good deal
2. that a 1/3 of a cord of rounds equals a cord of split wood


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## smokinj (Sep 30, 2009)

ok ok "$60 per pickup truck load" could be a good deal with the right pick up. "you can get more wood on a truck in bigger rounds then you can splits"


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## CowboyAndy (Sep 30, 2009)

i would have gone one up with him and said "so you are advertising a cord of wood for 150, but you just admited a pickup will hold NEARLY a cord???"


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## CarbonNeutral (Sep 30, 2009)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Just got off the phone with a wood supplier. He is selling wood for $150 per cord (not bad...if it is an actual cord). I said I am interested in uncut rounds and he says they have them for $60 per pickup truck load.
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> I questioned the price saying that split wood tightly packed in a full size pickup is only about 1/3 of a cord. Uncut rounds wouldn't be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150.
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His pickup load blowing up magically into a cord aside, I'm not convinced that rounds take up more room - nicely stacked, cut to length as compared to even tightly stacked. In my mind I'm seeing more air space when stacked....

Maybe only 10-20% more, but I don't see it being less...


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## Nonprophet (Sep 30, 2009)

Tell him you'll pay him $130 in ones.  If he looks at you funny, just tell him that a stack of ones is MUCH bigger than a stack of tens............


NP


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## karri0n (Sep 30, 2009)

split wood takes up more space than rounds. You can't pack splits into a space as tight as they are in when they are rounds.

Generally, it's possible to fit close to half a cord of splits into 1 large pickup truck. You definitely aren't going to fit a cord of rounds, but half a cord is feasible.

You could also show up at the place with a ram 4500 or f-450 too, and really clean up on that deal.


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## Archie (Sep 30, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> split wood takes up more space than rounds. You can't pack splits into a space as tight as they are in when they are rounds.
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> Generally, it's possible to fit close to half a cord of splits into 1 large pickup truck. You definitely aren't going to fit a cord of rounds, but half a cord is feasible.
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> You could also show up at the place with a ram 4500 or f-450 too, and really clean up on that deal.



This is correct.  Unsplit is tighter, less space.


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## Abhoth (Sep 30, 2009)

And an additional note ... when it comes to odd sized loads and such I get out the tape. Measure height, width and depth in inches then calculate as follows ... H x W x D = X then divide X / 1728 and that will give you the cubic feet of the load.


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## SWNH (Oct 1, 2009)

Last year, I was buying wood from a fellow for $75 / pickup load (standard 8ft bed)...cut rounds, delivered.  He packed it in TIGHT. After splitting and stacking, it yielded 3/4 cord per load.


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## NWfuel (Oct 1, 2009)

You are correct. Many years ago I purchased wood in rounds. When split we always had longer stacks. More air space.


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

i guess i am crazy but wood in the round leaves you with unsable space therefore you "get your" monies worth when its c/s....
when rounds are neatly stacked it still leaves space in between therefore you lose volume... when splits are tightly packed you have more volume
throwing splits in the back of a truck is about the same as having rounds (quantity)  when you neatly stack split  wood in a 8 bed pickup its half a cord (if you have 4 ft walls its a full cord)
if you put rounds in a pickup to the same height there is no way its equal .


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## NWfuel (Oct 1, 2009)

Ice, If I have a 4' round cut 16" for the length it would be approx.  1/6th of a cord. Now split this round and restack it and you will have more than 1/6th of a cord.
Thomas


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## kenny chaos (Oct 1, 2009)

Pay the $150 and put your splitter away.
What's the big deal?


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 1, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> split wood takes up more space than rounds. You can't pack splits into a space as tight as they are in when they are rounds.
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> Generally, it's possible to fit close to half a cord of splits into 1 large pickup truck. You definitely aren't going to fit a cord of rounds, but half a cord is feasible.
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> You could also show up at the place with a ram 4500 or f-450 too, and really clean up on that deal.


Respectfully disagree...Big Rounds leave big gaps of space....not an expert stacker, but I would be willing to bet that I can fit more split wood in a pickup than rounds.


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

ilikewood said:
			
		

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i'll take that bet


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 1, 2009)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Fine with me, next time you are in the area I can check out your saw collection 
What I am saying, is that if you have some pretty substantial rounds, you are going to have some big air gaps, and you could reasonably fit more stacked wood in the same cubif foot area than in rounds. If you are talkin 10" diameter rounds I agree with you....if you are talking 20-30" rounds I disagree.


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## Danno77 (Oct 1, 2009)

seriously, I'm reading here that there are quite a few guys around that thought they had more peas on their plate because they were spread around. I thought we all grew out of that! You don't think there is as much space in a stack of splits, but you are wrong, there is more empty space. What if I told you that the average house has enough air leaks to equal the size of an open window?

Someone do some searching around here, there is a nice picture of this that someone ran on some computer and it illustrates that split wood takes up more space than the same wood in the round. I swear i saw it just last burning season.


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> seriously, I'm reading here that there are quite a few guys around that thought they had more peas on their plate because they were spread around. I thought we all grew out of that! You don't think there is as much space in a stack of splits, but you are wrong, there is more empty space. What if I told you that the average house has enough air leaks to equal the size of an open window?
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> Someone do some searching around here, there is a nice picture of this that someone ran on some computer and it illustrates that split wood takes up more space than the same wood in the round. I swear i saw it just last burning season.



iam trying to find it


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## kenny chaos (Oct 1, 2009)

I did my own research when asked to supply some campfire wood.
The more it was split, the smaller the stacks got.
eg: It took more than a cord of rounds to = a cord of splits and it took even more to equal a cord of more finely split campfire wood.
Don't rely on someone else's research, do your own.


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

ilikewood said:
			
		

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sure sesms that way just not the case the only time I have blown the side wall out of the trailer is big rounds thats when i got my frist clue sounds like a 10 gauge mag going off. You are just putty in more weight...........once the puzzle is broke it never goes back as tight as it was


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 1, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> seriously, I'm reading here that there are quite a few guys around that thought they had more peas on their plate because they were spread around. I thought we all grew out of that! You don't think there is as much space in a stack of splits, but you are wrong, there is more empty space. What if I told you that the average house has enough air leaks to equal the size of an open window?
> 
> Someone do some searching around here, there is a nice picture of this that someone ran on some computer and it illustrates that split wood takes up more space than the same wood in the round. I swear i saw it just last burning season.



If you stack tightly, then yes I disgree with you.
Say you have a truck bed 4x8...18" high just to make it easy...you have 20" rounds to haul that are 18" high.....how many can you fit in your truck bed without going over the 18"?....I will split them and fit more in that bed than you can in rounds...Iceman,...help me out here 
Not trying to start a contest here, but if you only have a limited amount of room to work with....which most trucks/trailer do..you can fit more splits than rounds....


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## rdust (Oct 1, 2009)

If I take a 25" round and split it into 8 won't the 8 splits will take up more room then the round did?  I don't think I could ever stack it as tight as mother nature did.


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

> If I take a 25" round and split it into 8 won't the 8 splits will take up more room then the round did?  I don't think I could ever stack it as tight as mother nature did.



thats for sure that puzzle will never go back as tight


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## kenny chaos (Oct 1, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

> If I take a 25" round and split it into 8 won't the 8 splits will take up more room then the round did?  I don't think I could ever stack it as tight as mother nature did.



Do it with a cord and report back.
I know, too much work.


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## rdust (Oct 1, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> Do it with a cord and report back.
> I know, too much work.



My stacks always seem to grow when I split but I also don't worry about making my stacks tight.  I'm not much for puzzles and I hate stacking wood.    I only have about 10 rounds right now, if I get time this weekend maybe I'll stack/measure then split and stack/measure again.


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> I did my own research when asked to supply some campfire wood.
> The more it was split, the smaller the stacks got.
> eg: It took more than a cord of rounds to = a cord of splits and it took even more to equal a cord of more finely split campfire wood.
> Don't rely on someone else's research, do your own.



lol i done 23 since april no ?


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## Corey (Oct 1, 2009)

This is the most scientific examination I have seen (courtesy Edthedawg)- shows about 10-12% more volume when wood is split/stacked.  Of course there are quite a few variables to how it is stacked in rounds or splits.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30917/#326165


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> This is the most scientific examination I have seen (courtesy Edthedawg)- shows about 10-12% more volume when wood is split/stacked. Of course there are quite a few variables to how it is stacked in rounds or splits.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30917/#326165



i knew it was here somewhere couldn't fine it thanks


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## Bigg_Redd (Oct 1, 2009)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Just got off the phone with a wood supplier. He is selling wood for $150 per cord (not bad...if it is an actual cord). I said I am interested in uncut rounds and he says they have them for $60 per pickup truck load.
> 
> I questioned the price saying that split wood tightly packed in a full size pickup is only about 1/3 of a cord. Uncut rounds wouldn't be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150.
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I can get a cord in my truck with 1' side racks.

The bed is 2.5 (with racks)x6x8, which is 120sq ft.  I figure the other 8 sq ft are in the mound.  

It'd be impossible to fit a cord in a standard long bed without racks.


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## Tony H (Oct 1, 2009)

Anyone who had split wood should know after being split it will take up more space than before it was split. I think the average is 15 to 20 % more volume after split.
If you don't believe me bring me a pickup full of wood and I will show you .... if you can fit all the split wood in less space you can take it with if not you leave it with me.
The deal with your wood guy all depends on what kind of pickup and how he loads it . My buddy next door fills his f250 8'bed with a heaping load and after splitting it's around 3/4 of a cord


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## NWfuel (Oct 1, 2009)

I believe the rule is 88 cubic feet wood and 40 cubic feet air for 128 cu ft cord.


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## NWfuel (Oct 1, 2009)

I am sure we all agree on the fact that both the round and the splits from that round have the same amount of wood. It is just the air space that increases.


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## karri0n (Oct 1, 2009)

Debating round vs. split size difference aside, It still factors that it's accepted for the most part that a pickup can hold half a cord of wood. The seller is being somewhat honest, and somewhat selling you. You aren't going to fit a cord of wood into a pickup, but it's more than 1/3 cord. The money you save is probably not worth it with all the labor of splitting those rounds.


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> I did my own research when asked to supply some campfire wood.
> The more it was split, the smaller the stacks got.
> eg: It took more than a cord of rounds to = a cord of splits and it took even more to equal a cord of more finely split campfire wood.
> Don't rely on someone else's research, do your own.



thats what i thought....   
last year my wood guy was happy bringing me a load he says thats about 2.5 cords ... i say thats alot of wood but when i split and stack i will call you back...  now his truck is 4x8x12 and these rounds were about 3 ft high  he figured by math 2.25- 2.5 
by the time i split  1.8
a cord by def is tightly stacked 4x4x8  those numbers equal sqs-- a rectangle  you can not take rounds and make them "sq"   meaning if i take 30 rounds and stack them you can see through them if you take splits and stack tight, its a wall! i know for me, i get more in the truck when they are split vs rd...


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

cozy heat said:
			
		

> This is the most scientific examination I have seen (courtesy Edthedawg)- shows about 10-12% more volume when wood is split/stacked.  Of course there are quite a few variables to how it is stacked in rounds or splits.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30917/#326165




this is exactly the point.... those rounds cannot be moved thats it... those splits can be placed much tighter than what in the pic! when you get a GOOD  wood guy they will tightly stack in the truck
the pic shows 3 rows of wood.... if stacked right you could get 3.5-4 rows in there all day


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

good wood guy doesnt have all day to make sure them splits are nice and neat-n-pretty  just doesnt happen ever! if that where the case it would be 200.00 for a cord and another 200 so we get you a perfect stack job! and I will still get more rounds in a truck than splits.lol


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> good wood guy doesnt have all day to make sure them splits are nice and neat-n-pretty  just doesnt happen ever! if that where the case it would be 200.00 for a cord and another 200 so we get you a perfect stack job! and I will still get more rounds in a truck than splits.lol




around here, a good wood guy with a 6x8  truck will neatly stack the wood in the truck and sell it as a 1.5 cords  or 1 cord if the wood is loose... many "uneducated" or "thieves" I call them uneducated because they just don't know,  will fill that same truck loose and charge for 1.5 cords because the just use the numbers 4x6x8 =192 

i didnt mean to offend you if i did ........  i hope this clarifies what i was trying to explain ....  BUT THAT  is only for most guys that have a 350 dump with 4ft sides... guys with bigger trucks dont stack they usually use bobcats or tractors


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

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no problem I don't think for the most part people that are selling wood are thieves there is just much eazier way to steal. Most problems are just confessing on both parts.Heck this theard is 50/50, so I dont always think the customer is right or the wood dealer find that middle ground and sell them a cord of wood! lol


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## Highbeam (Oct 1, 2009)

I am with the guys that think that the wood expands as you split it. The additional air space will give you more volume. You can put one huge rock in a dumptruck that will max out its payload. When you crush that rock into gravel and max out the payload of the truck you will have a much fuller box. IF the gravel is uniform you will get a 30% void ratio. Nomatter how finely you smash the gravel, even to sand, you will have the same 30% void ratio so long as the stones are the same size. 

A truckload of logs going down the road will make way more volume in firewood nomatter how you stack it.


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## iceman (Oct 1, 2009)

i see the points you make but lets use water... take five gallons of wter still in the container most people are hard pressed to fit that many in the sink... right?????  now pour five gallons in the sink.... your sink might be half way full......  log for log split for split do logs have more wood ... yes however in the shape that you try to stack/store you cant use the entire space .. when you split you can use the entire space as long as it is done like a puzzle not just throwing it in...  therefore you can fit more....  that is just science.. we apply it to many other things...   " i can fit 5 of these but if i lay this down or turn it now i can fit 8"


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## smokinj (Oct 1, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> i see the points you make but lets use water... take five gallons of wter still in the container most people are hard pressed to fit that many in the sink... right?????  now pour five gallons in the sink.... your sink might be half way full......  log for log split for split do logs have more wood ... yes however in the shape that you try to stack/store you cant use the entire space .. when you split you can use the entire space as long as it is done like a puzzle not just throwing it in...  therefore you can fit more....  that is just science.. we apply it to many other things...   " i can fit 5 of these but if i lay this down or turn it now i can fit 8"



lol its a great story.


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## rdust (Oct 2, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> yes however in the shape that you try to stack/store you cant use the entire space .. *when you split you can use the entire space as long as it is done like a puzzle not just throwing it in..*




I can't see anyone who is making money from wood taking the time to stack wood like a "puzzle" for delivery.  Just tossing wood in and making it somewhat neat is time consuming enough.  Even if you try to stack it like a "puzzle" splits don't stack tight.  You have splits that are just halved, splits with knots, splits with twisted grain, splits like elm that are stringy etc.


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## Pagey (Oct 2, 2009)

Now, if someone would just use the words "Fiskars" and "cat" we'd have a real flame war!


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## rdust (Oct 2, 2009)

Pagey said:
			
		

> Now, if someone would just use the words "Fiskars" and "cat" we'd have a real flame war!



Trouble maker!  :lol:


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

rdust said:
			
		

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thats why i called them the "good guys" many do not but around here there are some.... and that is how they "prove" you are getting what you pay for
others toss it in and tell you that a loose filled truck is equal to a cord...
others have a dump with 2 ft rails and it is piled high in the middle and the clain its a cord manys times you get shorted by those


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## Nonprophet (Oct 2, 2009)

When I stack the wood that I split with my Fiskars, there is no air space between the splits..........

And yes, I have a cat stove...... :cheese: 


NP


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## karri0n (Oct 2, 2009)

can someone please find that little comic strip somebody made recently with the guy sitting at the computer, the wife calling him to bed, and him saying "This is important! someone is WRONG on  hearth.com!"


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## karri0n (Oct 2, 2009)

OK, here we go. If someone on here can demonstrate them making a stack of rounds, measuring it, splitting it, and restacking it, and it's smaller, I will officially give them the GOLD STAR OF WOOD STACKING. I really don't believe anyone is going to be able to split the wood perfectly enough AND stack it tightly enough to take up less air space than when the wood is in a fully compacted log form.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

Nonprophet said:
			
		

> When I stack the wood that I split with my Fiskars, there is no air space between the splits..........
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MEOW!  Do I predict a cat fight?


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 2, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> OK, here we go. If someone on here can demonstrate them making a stack of rounds, measuring it, splitting it, and restacking it, and it's smaller, I will officially give them the GOLD STAR OF WOOD STACKING. I really don't believe anyone is going to be able to split the wood perfectly enough AND stack it tightly enough to take up less air space than when the wood is in a fully compacted log form.



I thought the diagram proved this pretty well, but I guess not.

Take an average round size...whatever you want to use.....but lets say its 18" in diameter, and 16" high....traditional split length.
If you were to look at your pickup bed as a 3 dimensional box, we are saying that you can pit more cubic feet of split wood in that box than you can fit rounds.

Do you have a old stove/refrigerator box laying around......how many of thos rounds can you fit in it without changing the dimensions of the box and busting out the sides/tops?

Take a standard cooler, and try to fill it with gallons of milk..measure milk...then do the same with half gallon cartons and then quart cartons....let us know which way you can fit the most milk in 

Another good example....just yesterday I split a ton of pine rounds that were stacked in a row.....big air gaps in between each round.....the pine is now split into kindling and is taking up less space.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

ilikewood said:
			
		

> Another good example....just yesterday I split a ton of pine rounds that were stacked in a row.....big air gaps in between each round.....the pine is now split into kindling and is taking up less space.


Why were there big air gaps?  To me that's just sloppy stacking.  My wood guy asks me what size logs I want and I always ask for a variety.  The smaller ones fill the air gaps around the bigger ones.  I also order my logs cut to 8 foot so there are fewer gaps than with tree length.  Once bucked to 20" rounds and stacked there are fewer gaps still.

One can always play with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point in their favor.  The smaller the sample size and larger the round, the greater the exaggeration.  A few really big rounds in a small pickup bed would have lots of gaps but a mix of sizes well laid in a larger trailer would have less air.  If a firewood purveyor showed up loaded with lots of gaps, he would be sent packing.

Find a round that is the exact diameter of a 5 gallon pail and split it up into small kin'lin.  It will not all fit into the pail.  How's that for playing with the size of rounds and arrangement to exaggerate a point?


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 2, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

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I guess I must be a shitty round stacker then 
How do you stack your rounds without any airgaps?
Also, good point on the bucket issue....we agree that the the size will vary.
Can we agree that you can fit more wood in 18" rounds in the back of your pickup versus rounds that are 30" in diameter...thats all we are getting to.
Also, I know that you having those missin pages from the sears book...i saw you take them


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

ilikewood said:
			
		

> How do you stack your rounds without any airgaps?


I said fewer not no air gaps and my OCD compels me to place the perfect size round into a particular gap.

As for the pages, some might say that I need to use lots of them. :gulp:


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## Danno77 (Oct 2, 2009)

ok, there are really two arguments here and some wires are crossed.

1. splits take up more volume than rounds (vs. rounds take up more volume)
2. you can fit more wood in a truck split (vs in the round)

I still believe that splits take up more volume than rounds, for the reasons stated by myself and others. I do, however, respect the argument that you can fit splits into spaces a round cannot be placed. Think about loading 8' rounds into your truck bed. what about the space behind and in front of the wheel wells? what about the space just under the side's lip? I understand that the argument is that you can cram splits into those otherwise unusable spots. SO, in the end, the opposing argument is that the extra volume splits take up can be expanded into those spots that would otherwise be empty voids. My unscientific guess is that if you fill rounds to the top of the bed vs splits to the top of the bed you'd probably get more splits in there, or at least it would be a close call. The second you start talking about putting rails on and stacking wood or rounds above the top of the bed, i'm thinking the rounds start to win out on total amount of wood.


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## daveswoodhauler (Oct 2, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

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I have seen your stacks, and I don't think I could fit a dime in between each split of yours 
Glad that catalogue has a lot of pages in it :gulp:


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> ok, there are really two arguments here and some wires are crossed.
> 
> 1. splits take up more volume than rounds (vs. rounds take up more volume)
> 2. you can fit more wood in a truck split (vs in the round)
> ...


EggsActly!  You fully support the argument BrowningBAR originally made when he said "Uncut rounds wouldn’t be more than that (in fact, it would be less as we know) so why is it that uncut rounds comes out to $180-200 per cord and split wood is $150(?)".

Glad we finally got that out of the way.  Now, to put that Fiskars thread to rest...


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## karri0n (Oct 2, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

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Sorry, you lost me. On the one hand you said splits take up more volume, but now you've said rounds take up more volume(both in a truck). 


Can we agree that the math is off if you are considring an 8' bed only holding 1/3 of 1 cord? Gulland's website even says you could fit a cord in there if you stacked splits up to the height of the cab(not that I agree). I still think it's more like 1/2 cord/pickup load of splits. 

I don't think it's going to come out to much more, maybe end up paying $120 a cord if you figure 1/2 cord in the case of buying unsplit rounds, but I don't think the labor is worth it.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> Sorry, you lost me. On the one hand you said splits take up more volume, but now you've said rounds take up more volume(both in a truck).


No, I did not say that.  I agreed with both BrowningBAR and Danno77 That you cannot fit more BTUs into a pickup bed in unsplit rounds than you can split.  As Danno77 pointed out, there are nooks and crannies that splits can fill that would be air space with large rounds.  Again it comes down to the size (and shape) of the container versus the size of the rounds.


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## Danno77 (Oct 2, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> As Danno77 pointed out, there are nooks and crannies that splits can fill that would be air space with large rounds.  Again it comes down to the size (and shape) of the container versus the size of the rounds.


I'd like to clarify, that I did say that, but i I also said that's the case if you are loading even with the top of the bed. I'd predict that as the loads get closer to cab height the rounds start to win out over splits.

SO, at the end of the day my conversation when buying wood by truckload would be this:

(if truck load of round is cheaper)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "how high do you stack it in the truck?"
seller: "pile it as high as I can get it"
me: "rounds please"

(if truck loads are same cost)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "how high do you stack it in the truck?"
seller: "pile it as high as I can get it"
me: "split please" [labor is worth it to me]

(if truck load of splits costs more)
seller: "wanna buy a truck load of splits or rounds?"
me: "neither"


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## LLigetfa (Oct 2, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> (if truck load of round is cheaper)
> ...
> (if truck loads are same cost)
> ...
> (if truck load of splits costs more)


You missed the original scenario, that being rounds cost more than split based on the presumption there are more BTUs in a pickup load of rounds.


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

this is what i meant by people who stack in the truck
this is just one of many ways... but when people do it like this its hard to argue you they shorted you... the second is one who sells truckload for 1.5 when he might have a cord/a tad more.. the people who buy that are the ones that get shorted


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## Pagey (Oct 2, 2009)

this is why I perfectly square all my splits.  :lol:


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

and this would be a 3 cord load...  when people do it like this there is no room for arguing what you are getting.....
but who knows i guess the only way is to actually do it....  when my delivery guy comes i will take pics then see how much it comes out to


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## Pagey (Oct 2, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> and this would be a 3 cord load...  when people do it like this there is no room for arguing what you are getting.....
> but who knows i guess the only way is to actually do it....  when my delivery guy comes i will take pics then see how much it comes out to



I call BS.  There is no way all that wood will fit in that tiny little trash can.   :roll:    ;-P


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

Pagey said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



NO WAY IT WILL IN ROUNDS!! only if its split!


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## iceman (Oct 2, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> this is what i meant by people who stack in the truck
> this is just one of many ways... but when people do it like this its hard to argue you they shorted you... the second is one who sells truckload for 1.5 when he might have a cord/a tad more.. the people who buy that are the ones that get shorted


.. funny thing is the one on the right looks real big.. but its a cord/tad bit more the one on the left is a true 1.5...


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## karri0n (Oct 2, 2009)

with a ballcock no less....


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## smokinj (Oct 2, 2009)

karri0n said:
			
		

> with a ballcock no less....


lol


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## Pagey (Oct 2, 2009)

That's so full of win it hurts.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 7, 2009)

Man, this is my second thread in a row that cause quite a stir. Completely unintentional.

Anyhow, I passed on this and found someone selling a full cord of rounds for $100 delivered. Which I am happy with.

And the guy down the road that took down 10 acres of trees for a vineyard finally called me back. I think I can get several cords off of him on the cheap. That will easily put me into the 2011 burn pile.


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## Avitare (Oct 7, 2009)

The newbie* has a question:

Did this discussion conclude if a 'cord' of unsplit wood is more or less than the same load when it is split ??

(considering I am new to this forum, I would be amazed if this has not been the "beaten dead... rodent" -- I like horses)
tc


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 7, 2009)

Avitare said:
			
		

> The newbie* has a question:
> 
> Did this discussion conclude if a 'cord' of unsplit wood is more or less than the same load when it is split ??
> 
> ...



Based on some of the examples shown earlier in the thread it does appear that unsplit wood will give you more cubic feet when split. It seemed to be 12%-18% more if I recall the post correctly.


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## SolarAndWood (Oct 7, 2009)

I think the only thing conclusive is that it is easier to throw a cord of wood onto the low deck of a trailer than any of the trucks pictured.


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## Avitare (Oct 7, 2009)

that seems logical -- 
I have never had a reason to compare until I bought precut and brought it home to split
(friend) said I carried 7 cords home in 3 trips with a trailer --and I never carried that much in my trailer before ( too heavy)
we will see when I am done splitting it

tempted to run my own experiment
if it ever stops raining

--------------------------------------------
trailers
most guys I know use trailers for their own wood hauling. 
but some that sell it have made dump trailers from wheel chair lift gate hydraulics 

thanks for the replies
tc


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## iceman (Oct 9, 2009)

how much is this?

in the back its about 4ft at the highest point



guy tried to tell me 2 cords i say its less  but he is cool told me to split n stack n call back


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## smokinj (Oct 9, 2009)

iceman said:
			
		

> how much is this?
> 
> in the back its about 4ft at the highest point
> 
> ...



my best guess would be 1.5-2 but split and stack and there you go


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## rdust (Oct 9, 2009)

Pictures are always hard but I say it could be two once split and stacked.


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## iceman (Oct 9, 2009)

i wasnt home when it was delivered so as far as this thread goes its hard for me to say but i will try to measure the rounds and comeup with how mcuh (4x4x8) it would stack to if left in the round ,  then when i split it take another photo and one last when stacked to see if its equal/more/less to what it equal in the round.... stay tuned..... but dont wait cause i have so much going on might take me a month!


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## smokinj (Oct 9, 2009)

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=110955 here's the same tread going on at the other site


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## iceman (Oct 10, 2009)

that was very interesting....    however, i still believe split is better .. i wont doubt that if you have all rounds close in size (lets say 16' in dia and each 2' long)  stacked 4x4x8 split it will be a cord (maybe more) but in a pickup you will have the advan. by splitting to take up every possible way to the top of the bed without rails thats a half cord...  if you put rounds in (to the top of the bed) you would get only 1/3 of a cord because the 2 rounds on top of each other would be higher than the bed 16+16=32 inches .... but if you have 4 ft sides on a 8 ft bed with all same size rounds then yes it should be at least 1 cord when split .. problem is most people dont have all same size rounds and thats where the problem comes in


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## LLigetfa (Oct 10, 2009)

I like the Ken and Barbie stacks made from dowels.


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## smokinj (Oct 10, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> I like the Ken and Barbie stacks made from dowels.


that was cute huh?


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## rdust (Oct 10, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> I like the Ken and Barbie stacks made from dowels.



I just thought they had too much time on their hands!  :lol:  Proved the point nicely I think.


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## TomB (Oct 10, 2009)

How about filling a pickup 8 foot bed with rounds, go to the truck scale and weigh the load... Then fill the truck with a load of splits... which will weigh more? I don't know. But it would be interesting to see how much more the rounds weigh then the splits. I have a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 ft box, we load a lot of rounds in the truck, I am sure 3000 lbs or even more, and when we load splits its about half that weigh just by how the truck rides and how far the over load spring flex. Anyone have any thoughts?  I don't have a truck scale near me or I would check out the weights.

Tom


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## smokinj (Oct 10, 2009)

TomB said:
			
		

> How about filling a pickup 8 foot bed with rounds, go to the truck scale and weigh the load... Then fill the truck with a load of splits... which will weigh more? I don't know. But it would be interesting to see how much more the rounds weigh then the splits. I have a 3/4 ton truck with an 8 ft box, we load a lot of rounds in the truck, I am sure 3000 lbs or even more, and when we load splits its about half that weigh just by how the truck rides and how far the over load spring flex. Anyone have any thoughts?  I don't have a truck scale near me or I would check out the weights.
> 
> Tom


yep Tom thats right after doing enough loads and blowning out a side wall tire rounds is the heavier load.


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## Duetech (Oct 10, 2009)

I sold firewood for several years. Stacked rounds never seemed to equate to stacked splits. The "weight" approach I think would end the debate. If not then the obvious is not what is being looked for.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 10, 2009)

The problem with weight comparisons is that wetter wood is heavier.  Unless just fresh split, split wood dries faster so should shed some pounds.  I wouldn't want to buy wood by the pound as there would be disincentive for it to be well seasoned.

The true test would be to load up a pickup with rounds to a given height and then unload, split, and reload to see if it piles higher.  Any takers want to chronicle such a test?  I think a small load would make disproportionately less difference than a large load.


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## iceman (Oct 10, 2009)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> The problem with weight comparisons is that wetter wood is heavier.  Unless just fresh split, split wood dries faster so should shed some pounds.  I wouldn't want to buy wood by the pound as there would be disincentive for it to be well seasoned.
> 
> The true test would be to load up a pickup with rounds to a given height and then unload, split, and reload to see if it piles higher.  Any takers want to chronicle such a test?  I think a small load would make disproportionately less difference than a large load.



this has been my arguement......  if we just load a pickup to the top of the bed you will fit more in splits because using a rounds od say 18" in dia you can only do one row .. you wouldnt be able to stack 2 18" rounds ... but if it was split you could pack it in nice and tight....

BUT in all fairness lets asy there is more volume in rounds....  no what if you use a processor where every piece is split perfectly????????   same size same width ....  you should be able to fit that in the 5 gallon bucket


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## Danno77 (Oct 11, 2009)

I'd just like to say that I've been searching for a round that fits perfectly into a 5 gallon bucket for about a week now, lol.

and then when I'm done with that I'm gonna get some dowels, a barbie splitter, and a scale sized pickup truck and load that in there. 

Someone do some scale calculations for me if they get bored. I need someone to look at that truck with the rounds in it, then figure out what size dowels i'd need to get to fit into a toy truck that is 1:X scale.

then I'll try to fit those split dowels into the scale truck (without building up the bed's sides). I'm willing to bet good money they won't fit, no matter how I try to stack them.


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## LLigetfa (Oct 11, 2009)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> I'd just like to say that I've been searching for a round that fits perfectly into a 5 gallon bucket for about a week now, lol


Take your wonderful Fiskars and whittle it down until it fits.


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## Danno77 (Nov 4, 2009)

ok, here's my experiment.

size of rectangle that would contain two extra large rounds:
59"x28" = 1652 square inches

size after split:
50x36 = 1800 square inches

that's pretty darn close to a 10% increase in size.

I had a lot of waste. the outer edge of one round was very crappy, so I ended up with those splits that don't go through, but instead bust off about halfway down the round  and then you have to flip the round over to bust off the other half (it would take two pieces to equal a whole split). I'd say there was another square foot of splits that were wasted because of this. I wouldn't sweat this extra wood, though, because I think that even if it had all split perfectly and I restacked it then I'd still have been at about 10%. I had a slightly loose stack, but not so much that a restack was gonna change the outcome.

I'll have pics in a couple of days. It got dark and I don't think the cell phone flash worked well enough.


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## kenny chaos (Nov 4, 2009)

That's not enough for a test.
The more you do, the less it becomes.


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## Danno77 (Nov 4, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> That's not enough for a test.
> The more you do, the less it becomes.


yeah, i totally agree. Best case scenario would have been something more like a face cord or greater. my grad school stats teachers would crap their pants if they saw me call that "an experiment" lol.


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