# Jotul GF3 BV - pilot won't stay lit, tried everything I can think of



## hoopsta1423 (Oct 4, 2019)

Hi all,

I've got a Jotul GF3 BV (https://jotul.com/us/guides/_attachment/12843?_download=true&_ts=13e1dae4cc4) that I'm having trouble with. It's used (new to me last year) and I did have similar issues getting it going last year, but it eventually did start up. Unfortunately I don't recall exactly what the issue was because I tried everything (nothing worked), walked away from it for a week, tried it again and it started without hesitation...

Here are some things I've tried:

Thermopile - ~500mv after holding the pilot for ~1min (with stat off). I get the same reading with old and new thermopiles. When I switch the fireplace on, this drops to ~200-220mv (this tells me the thermocouple magnet is working correctly)

Thermocouple - ~14mv while holding the pilot

Gas valve - resistance across TH and TP is ~2.4 R which I've read falls in line with where SIT 820 valves should be. Thermocouple magnet test is <0.2 R, again falling in line with what it should be (AFAIK). (https://www.mygasfireplacerepair.com/2013/11/how-to-test-your-main-control-valve/)

Pilot light is strong and blue when I'm holding in the gas control knob (see photos attached). As soon as I let go, it dies (no matter how long I was holding it for).

I've taken pipecleaners to all gas lines/orifices and haven't found any cobwebs

All the readings above were taken with the front glass removed. I have also tried keeping the front glass on and haven't had any luck. The only other thing I can think of that I haven't tested is the snap discs. This fireplace has a couple of them (I believe) but as far as I'm aware, a bad snap disc wouldn't keep the pilot from lighting, it just wouldn't allow the main burner to turn on.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks!


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## DAKSY (Oct 4, 2019)

Thermocouple - ~14mv while holding the pilot! 
That's your answer. Your TC should read more that DOUBLE that.


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## hoopsta1423 (Oct 6, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> Thermocouple - ~14mv while holding the pilot!
> That's your answer. Your TC should read more that DOUBLE that.


So I was able to get it started again. Just took it all apart and put it all back together....

Regarding the TC, do you happen to know where to get a replacement? I tried one listed but it was too short, can't seem to find the longer style


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## DAKSY (Oct 6, 2019)

Your local Jotul dealer should have one.
You can also call Best Fire in Troy NY &
have it shipped to you for a fee...
Make sure you have the serial number off the rating plate.
(518) 687-2387


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## hoopsta1423 (Oct 7, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> Your local Jotul dealer should have one.
> You can also call Best Fire in Troy NY &
> have it shipped to you for a fee...
> Make sure you have the serial number off the rating plate.
> (518) 687-2387


Great thanks,

Any ideas as to why this works sometimes and not others? Can a thermocouple really be that finicky? I'm afraid to turn it off to retest the TC voltage because I'm not sure I would be able to get it going again. It's really hit or miss


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## DAKSY (Oct 7, 2019)

A TC should be generating 25 - 34 mV, enough to hold electromagnets in the valve open.
If yours is holding at 14mV, maybe the magnets are starting to fail - just a guess. 
Get the correct replacement TC from a dealer, if a universal type doesn't work (or fit),
& you should be all set.


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## hoopsta1423 (Oct 8, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> A TC should be generating 25 - 34 mV, enough to hold electromagnets in the valve open.
> If yours is holding at 14mV, maybe the magnets are starting to fail - just a guess.
> Get the correct replacement TC from a dealer, if a universal type doesn't work (or fit),
> & you should be all set.


So if I have similar issues with a new TC, it's reasonable to assume the valve should be replaced?


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## DAKSY (Oct 8, 2019)

Bad valves are rare. VERY rare. Get the TC in there & enjoy the heat.


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## sticks (Oct 23, 2019)

I believe that unit has a vent safety switch. It could be bad. Or sometimes those wires get pretty crispy


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## hoopsta1423 (Nov 13, 2019)

Well my pilot light went out this morning - not sure why but it's pretty windy so it's possible that a very strong gust caused a draft and blew it out. Tried for 30mins to get the pilot back on, but couldn't. So I replaced the TC with a new one that I had ordered, but still can't get the pilot to stay on. New TC holding at 18.5mV

Any ideas?


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## hoopsta1423 (Nov 13, 2019)

sticks said:


> I believe that unit has a vent safety switch. It could be bad. Or sometimes those wires get pretty crispy


Yea, I'd heard of that, but jumping that vent switch doesn't solve the problem unfortunately


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## hoopsta1423 (Nov 13, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> A TC should be generating 25 - 34 mV, enough to hold electromagnets in the valve open.
> If yours is holding at 14mV, maybe the magnets are starting to fail - just a guess.
> Get the correct replacement TC from a dealer, if a universal type doesn't work (or fit),
> & you should be all set.


Re-reading this now, is it really possible that my new TC is bad? What are the odds?


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## DAKSY (Nov 13, 2019)

Not being condescending here, but how are you reading the TC output? 
You need to remove the fitting from the valve.
One Probe of the multimeter on the VERY end that
came out of the valve & the other one on the copper sheathing.
Depress the pilot knob, light the pilot HOLD the
knob in to fuel the pilot...NOW take a reading.
Unless you're using alligator clips on your multimeter,
you need three hands...


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## hoopsta1423 (Nov 18, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> Not being condescending here, but how are you reading the TC output?
> You need to remove the fitting from the valve.
> One Probe of the multimeter on the VERY end that
> came out of the valve & the other one on the copper sheathing.
> ...



Appreciate it. Yes that's exactly what I am doing.  Fitting removed, alligator clips, holding pilot for ~1-2 mins, don't need 3 hands

I honestly think I got a bad TC, waiting on another to arrive


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## DAKSY (Nov 18, 2019)

OK. Let us know how you make out...


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## hoopsta1423 (Nov 22, 2019)

DAKSY said:


> OK. Let us know how you make out...


just bad luck...new TC works like a charm


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## hoopsta1423 (May 12, 2020)

And....I'm back....

Stove worked like a charm all winter. I turned it off and disconnected it for a couple weeks to do some work to our hearth. Finished that up, reconnected the stove and problems popped up again

1st attempt - pilot stayed on, but the whole stove shut down just a few seconds after turning the gas on (pilot too)

2nd attempt - same as first. pilot would light, but when i turned the gas on for heat, the stove would shut down after ~5 seconds

Every attempt since then - pilot will not stay lit

TC/TP Readings are both good (30mv/550mv). I've taken the whole thing apart and tried blowing/vacuumming out any cobwebs that may have appeared in those 2 weeks. There is no noticeable change in the pilot flames when I am trying to light it. I've tried tapping the regulator to see if something is stuck in there

At this point, I'm completely confused. With the issues I had prior to the winter and similar issues now, I have to think that something is wrong with the valve. 

Any additional thoughts?


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## DAKSY (May 12, 2020)

Where did you use the air? 
Just around the pilot assembly?
Did you pull the burner & the burner orifice?
That's where the spiders build their nests.
Compressed air doesn't always work on that area. 
It will blow the nest out of the way, & when
the gas starts to flow it'll blow back into position.
You'll need a Q-Tip or a pipe cleaner to swirl around 
in the gas tube behind the orifice.
One other thing I'd look for & that's the high temperature
 snap disk, which can fail & the wiring to & from it. 
The sheathing can be compromised over the years
& the copper core can short out to the stove body. 
Let us know what you find.


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## hoopsta1423 (May 12, 2020)

DAKSY said:


> Where did you use the air?
> Just around the pilot assembly?
> Did you pull the burner & the burner orifice?
> That's where the spiders build their nests.
> ...



Air everywhere, through the pilot tube/orifice, through the burner tube/orifice. Blowing both ways to try dislodging anything that may have gotten stuck. I took a pipe cleaner to every spot that I could too.

I did try jumping the spill switch with no luck, but there is another snap disk in the back that I can try jumping. The wiring to the switches appears to be in good condition from afar

I've got another TP/TC on the way because why not.


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

Just to update...

Just installed brand new TC but pilot still won't stay on

I'm completely stumped


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## DAKSY (May 16, 2020)

Check the milliVolt output on that TC


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

DAKSY said:


> Check the milliVolt output on that TC


~21mV


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## DAKSY (May 16, 2020)

Not good enough. You want  to see a TC generate around 28mV.


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

It's brand new! And the one it replaced was doing 30mV but the pilot still wasn't staying on. That's why I'm stumped and thinking it's got to be the valve.


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## DAKSY (May 16, 2020)

Take a plastic handled screwdriver & 
give the valve a couple of sharp raps. 
You don't hafta bash it, just rap it. 
The electromagnets for gas flow to the 
pilot hood may be stuck. If that doesn't work,
I guess your valve may be the culprit.
Until last winter I had only seen ONE gas
valve fail. Then I saw two in two weeks.
Both on 9 year-old Regency U39s...


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

DAKSY said:


> Take a plastic handled screwdriver &
> give the valve a couple of sharp raps.
> You don't hafta bash it, just rap it.
> The electromagnets for gas flow to the
> ...



Thanks for the tip, I did try tapping it a few times without luck. 

It dawned on me that I could take my propane torch for sweating copper pipe and see if I could get the new TC to a higher output. Well that worked and I can get the TC up past 30mV fairly easily so the TC does seem good? The tip of the TC did start to glow red though

Is it possible that the gas pressure to my stove isn't enough to heat the TC high enough? I don't know why that would have changed in the past 2 weeks

Or is it is a sign of a bad TC that I need that much heat (glowing red tip) to get 30mV output?


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## DAKSY (May 16, 2020)

Did you CHECK your gas pressure?
Did you try turning up the pilot?
The end of the TC will glow red after it's
in the pilot flame for a time...
I actually don't know what to point you
to investigate.


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

DAKSY said:


> Did you CHECK your gas pressure?
> Did you try turning up the pilot?
> The end of the TC will glow red after it's
> in the pilot flame for a time...
> ...



Good news: I can get the pilot to stay lit
Bad news: I can only do it while heating the TC using that propane torch (so i light the pilot per the instructions, then heat the TC more using the torch, then I can let go of the pilot and it'll stay on until a few seconds after I move the torch away from the TC)

Does this point towards bad gas pressure? I'm curious what would have changed in the couple weeks that I had this turned off

I don't have the means of properly checking gas pressure at the moment unfortunately


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## DAKSY (May 16, 2020)

Until you get a manometer & check the pressure 
\I can't tell you whether or not it's good.
Again, did you try to turn the pilot up?
Brass screw on the front of the valve.


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## hoopsta1423 (May 16, 2020)

DAKSY said:


> Until you get a manometer & check the pressure
> \I can't tell you whether or not it's good.
> Again, did you try to turn the pilot up?
> Brass screw on the front of the valve.



Thanks for the help, I'll look into finding a manometer to check the pressures

I did try to turn the pilot up without any luck


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## DavidJM (Oct 29, 2021)

I realize this is a bit old but, I found it as I was trying to troubleshoot my Lillehammer with the same issue. Mine is 13 years old but probably only has 15 hours of running time on it so it's virtually brand new. Today, I had a gas appliance technician here and he spent a lot of time on it checking the thermocouple and everything else. His conclusion was that it was a venting issue but couldn't pinpoint the exact problem or provide a solution. He suggested that I get the pilot light lit for an hour or so to warm things up to promote venting before lighting the main flame. That didn't work.

So, tonight, I lit the main flame but kept it at its lowest setting. The flames appeared to be affected by a light air movement. Instead of a gentle, vertical flame, they sort of blew to one side, toward the left ( facing the glass ). I turned the flame up to see if it would overcome that, it still went out after a few minutes. But, it did seem to be affected by some sort of air movement. That made me have confidence that it may indeed be some sort of venting issue.

Next, I removed the stove top and unlatched the two catches up top that hold the glass in place. I relit the stove. It's still burning just fine and this is now half an hour or more later. It hasn't burned that long for as long as I can remember. Something in me tells me that this is indeed a venting problem but I can't explain exactly what or why.


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2021)

Is your Lillihamer BVent or Direct Vent?


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## DavidJM (Oct 30, 2021)

I'm not positive but I think it's a B-vent. If I touch the chimney, it's warm, but not hot. From my understanding of how they are made, the chimney would be cool(er) if it was direct vent.


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2021)

What does it say on the rating plate?


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2021)

Post a pic of the stove, venting & vent cap, please. 
Those will help


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## DavidJM (Oct 30, 2021)

DAKSY said:


> Post a pic of the stove, venting & vent cap, please.
> Those will help


I just found the manual and it a Jotul GF200 DV II Lillehammer. Direct Vent.


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## DAKSY (Oct 30, 2021)

OK. Thanks. You said in your earlier post that the
flame moved off the burner. We call that "Ghosting."
Reattach the glass.
Relight your stove & watch the pilot flame. Is it agitated?
Does it disappear off the thermocouple & thermopile just
before the flames ghost?


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