# Harman Accentra keeps shutting down with the same error code: "Incomplete Combustion"



## vferdman (Dec 14, 2009)

Hi, all.

I've been using the new to me Accentra for over a month now and it's been great. The stove is not new, but was cleaned by myself before it was installed. It's been throwing a 6 blink code every now and again, but would usually restart and run great for days after a reset. I make sure the burn pot is clean, the exhaust is clean, etc. Today the stove refused to stay running. I tried several times and it will ignite and start, but then shut down with 6 blink code. According to the manual it means "incomplete combustion". There are no unburned pellets in the pot when that happens and during the time it does run the fire is lively. I am guessing the exhaust temperature probe (called ESP probe by Harman) may be bad tricking the controller into shutting down. Any ideas before I go replacing the sensor?

Thanks in advance!


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## summit (Dec 14, 2009)

most probably an esp probe


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## rickwa (Dec 14, 2009)

we saw this alot when pennington was sending was having a problem with long pellets. 1 1/2-2 inches long.  they hang up like pixy sticks over the slide plate.  turn knob to test and see if auger is feeding correctly the next time you get this code


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## Lousyweather (Dec 14, 2009)

summit said:
			
		

> most probably an esp probe



concur....most likely, but also, when you clean, do you remove the two grooved heat exchanger covers on either side of the stove and clean there too?


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## vferdman (Dec 14, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> summit said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, absolutely! I took the heat exchanger covers and the combustion fan cover out. Cleaned it all BEFORE the stove went in last month and also repeated the procedure a few days ago. It was filthy the first time, but second time it was very clean.

So, now my question is: can the ESP probe be tested? I am sure it's some sort of thermo-resistive affair and should have some parameters at room temperature. I would hate to spend money to replace a good probe. The only other cause I can think of is insufficient pellets. The controller is activating the feed motor, but somehow not enough pellets get to the burn pot. Is this a possibility? An intermittent motor? I do see plenty of pellets come down at the beginning of a cycle, so the motor is not dead, but I do not sit there and monitor it for hours, so it could start cutting out some time into the burn (because of temperature changes inside the stove or something). I am not real familiar with these beasties, so not sure what the more common malfunctions are. Any and all wisdom highly appreciated.


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## Souzafone (Dec 14, 2009)

If you removed the cover of the combustion motor, you should have been able to see the probe, it's in the outlet path, where it exits the stove. Make sure it's not covered in ash.


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## vferdman (Dec 14, 2009)

Souzafone said:
			
		

> If you removed the cover of the combustion motor, you should have been able to see the probe, it's in the outlet path, where it exits the stove. Make sure it's not covered in ash.



As I said, everything was clean in there. Probe was not covered in ash. I vacuumed in there anyway, but there was nothing to vacuum.

Got a new probe a few hours ago. It is now in and the stove is going through its first cycle. I took apart the feed mechanism by taking the feed motor off and the plate that cuts the pellet flow out. Everything looked good. I re-assembled and decided to get another probe. Local farmer supply store is a Harman dealer and had a dozen of these things in stock. $54 including the governor's share. Hope it works. I quickly compared resistance readings on both probes at room (cold room due to stove being out) temperature and the two probes read the same at room temp. I then heated up the suspect probe with a lighter and its resistance quickly dropped as I applied the flame and went back up as I let the probe cool off. I did not do the same to the freshly bought probe in fear of ruining it by testing with a lighter flame. As far as I could see the old probe appeared to be working. But the failure was also fairly intermittent. The stove could run for days with no issues and then shut down and be stubborn to start up. I am really becoming an even bigger fan of a wood burning stoves as I go through this experience. Yes, it's nice to have a convenience of the fully automatic pellet stove, but I sure do hate all the trouble with all the various complex systems of it. Wood burning stove only requires a chimney with a good draft, the rest is just simple combustion.


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

Well, after a few days with a brand new exhaust temperature probe I have this to report. The stove still shuts down with 6 blink code (incomplete combustion). I have it on "Room Temp" and set the temp at about 70. This way it will burn all day without trouble. Then at night I turn the temperature setting down to about 65 and go to sleep. When I wake up I have a cold room and a shut down stove with 6 blink error code. My installation is brand new last month before Thanksgiving. A professional installer put the stove in and it looks like the install is very good. I have outside air connected to the outside with a corrugated aluminum tube and the exhaust vent is Harman-approved piping consisting of: 10" horizontal out of the stove, 90 degree elbow, 3' vertical, 90 degree elbow, 3' horizontal through the wall to outside. At the end of the vent pipe is a 45 degree elbow pointing down. That's it. I tried disconnecting the outside air intake and using inside air without the corrugated pipe. No difference. Still get the 6 blinks in the morning.

I am more and more inclined to think that the stove is just incapable of keeping going at low room temp setting. Whatever the combination of things that comprise my particular installation seem to be conspiring against the stove. I will try different ways of running it at night. I want the room to be at around 60-65 during the night and then go to 68-70 during the day. The daytime regime seems to be working fine, but the low temp regime is a problem. 

Anyone else running into similar problem under similar circumstances? Am I just not getting something?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> Well, after a few days with a brand new exhaust temperature probe I have this to report. The stove still shuts down with 6 blink code (incomplete combustion). I have it on "Room Temp" and set the temp at about 70. This way it will burn all day without trouble. Then at night I turn the temperature setting down to about 65 and go to sleep. When I wake up I have a cold room and a shut down stove with 6 blink error code. My installation is brand new last month before Thanksgiving. A professional installer put the stove in and it looks like the install is very good. I have outside air connected to the outside with a corrugated aluminum tube and the exhaust vent is Harman-approved piping consisting of: 10" horizontal out of the stove, 90 degree elbow, 3' vertical, 90 degree elbow, 3' horizontal through the wall to outside. At the end of the vent pipe is a 45 degree elbow pointing down. That's it. I tried disconnecting the outside air intake and using inside air without the corrugated pipe. No difference. Still get the 6 blinks in the morning.
> 
> I am more and more inclined to think that the stove is just incapable of keeping going at low room temp setting. Whatever the combination of things that comprise my particular installation seem to be conspiring against the stove. I will try different ways of running it at night. I want the room to be at around 60-65 during the night and then go to 68-70 during the day. The daytime regime seems to be working fine, but the low temp regime is a problem.
> 
> Anyone else running into similar problem under similar circumstances? Am I just not getting something?



How about checking the vacuum switch's tubing a bit of dust or cracked tubing could cause a shut down, stove would think its exhaust path was blocked.  This is just a guess.  Perhaps the combustion motor running on low just can't keep the vacuum conditions needed.


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 16, 2009)

Bad ESP.  

I stock the red p/n 03-20-00844 $44 and black p/n 03-20-00744 $47 wired probes.

Eric
330-448-0300


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> How about checking the vacuum switch's tubing a bit of dust or cracked tubing could cause a shut down, stove would think its exhaust path was blocked.  This is just a guess.  Perhaps the combustion motor running on low just can't keep the vacuum conditions needed.



Well, the vacuum switch tubing looks pretty clean right at the switch, but I have not followed it the entire way. Where does it go from the switch?

I think if the combustion motor can't keep the vacuum conditions on low, it should switch to high. Am I wrong? Maybe it's a software problem? Being a software and electrical engineer I am aware of these issues all too well... Is there a firmware upgrade for this stove just like my iPod, LOL? It's funny, but I will check. And, oh, BTW, the low draft is set to the highest speed possible.


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## rickwa (Dec 16, 2009)

try a couple of bags of pellets that are shorter.  you said pellets are 1 1/2 to 2 inches it will hang that stove up every time.  on a low burn it is not feeding enough pellets because some are hanging up over the slide plate.  clean all pellets out of the hopper and get acouple of bags of another brand and i will bet this will solve the problem.  we had the same problem with my parents accentra and pulled our hair out until we figured it out.


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 16, 2009)

If the vacuum switch is bad the stove will not work at all.  It is not a wait and it will stop, it just stops the stove.

Eric


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

kinsman stoves said:
			
		

> Bad ESP.
> 
> I stock the red p/n 03-20-00844 $44 and black p/n 03-20-00744 $47 wired probes.
> 
> ...



Eric, if you read one of my latest posts you'll realize that I have replaced the ESP with a brand new one (it's a P/N ending with 744, but Harman now sells a probe you splice in yourself to the existing wire rather than replacing the wire in the circuit board. The P/N for that is something like 03-00-00744). Anyway, symptoms did not change after the new probe was installed. Now I am out $50 and no better off. So much for replacing parts at semi-random. I wish there was a known way of testing the ESP before choosing to buy a new one. I measured the resistance at room temp and at various temperatures using a lighter. Old probe seemed to be functioning properly, but could be intermittent. I did not subject the new probe to testing. It came from a Harman dealer sealed in a bag, so I assumed it's good. Are you suggesting I got a bad one?


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 16, 2009)

No not a bad probe but it all depends on what board you have.  If you can call me and I will get the tech bulletin out and check your numbers.

Eric
330-448-0300


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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I don't know the routing inside a Harmon.

Eric,

There is a trip point at which that switch changes state.  Anything that can affect the pressure differential can cause that switch to shut the stove down it, that condition need not be present at start up.  So the stove could start and later get shut down, simple movement of ash for example.  Like I said it is something to check and the checking doesn't involve part swapping.


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## cac4 (Dec 16, 2009)

don't know the answer, but I just wanted to chime in and say that my Accentra FS keeps my house @65 overnight, without issue.  So its not that it "can't" maintain a low temp.


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> try a couple of bags of pellets that are shorter.  you said pellets are 1 1/2 to 2 inches it will hang that stove up every time.  on a low burn it is not feeding enough pellets because some are hanging up over the slide plate.  clean all pellets out of the hopper and get acouple of bags of another brand and i will bet this will solve the problem.  we had the same problem with my parents accentra and pulled our hair out until we figured it out.



Well, I did not measure my pellets, but they are New England Pellets brand and are premium hardwood pellets. I have two tons of them and they are pretty much what most people burn around here (they are made in New Hampshire, which is local enough for most New Englanders). I may try some other pellets just to see if the problem is caused by the actual pellets, though. If it is, that would be a bad thing as I think the stove should be able to burn whatever you put in it. I normally buy pellets at the best price possible and if I have to consider what length they are before buying them it may effect the cost effectiveness of this stove.

At the risk of repeating myself I will state that the wood burning stoves are way easier to operate. Pellet stoves are way too complicated for their own good it seems. They sure are nice when they work right, but if this forum is any indication this does not happen very often. I've been using a wood burning insert for three seasons now with absolutely no surprises or issues constantly popping up. Also, the maintenance is pretty simple on that stove. Not much to it, really. No moving parts save for the distribution fan, which is really not even part of the actual stove. The stove will burn and burn predictably no matter what I put into it (within reason, of course). The pellet stoves have a long way to go and many parts to shed before reaching the genius of the simple draft powered wood stove.

Having said all that I still love the pellet stove and I think I will get to the bottom of this problem or just learn how to live with it.


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

cac4 said:
			
		

> don't know the answer, but I just wanted to chime in and say that my Accentra FS keeps my house @65 overnight, without issue.  So its not that it "can't" maintain a low temp.



Chuck, could you describe your setup? The venting and the intake as well as the space the stove is working with. Mine is in a large open space in the basement, maybe 1000 sq ft or a little more. It would be helpful to know what your setup is before concluding what the stove is capable of. Every setup is different and presents a different set of challenges for the stove. Also, do you use room temp or stove temp? If former, where is your room temp probe located?

Thanks!


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## rickwa (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman,  typically wood pellets are about 1 inch some shorter ones in the bag some 1 1/4 inches. that is the goal of the pellet mill.  if the moisture or material is not correct when the pellets are extruded they can be fragile and turn to dust or be to hard and not break when leaving the die and end up like pencils. take a tape measure and measure some of the longer pellets if you are not sureof length


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## Lousyweather (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> rickwa said:
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Vlad- cool name, by the way-

New England pellets are made in Jaffrey, NH AND Schuyler, New York. If there are any 2"ers or more, you WILL get hang issues in the hopper.

I dont beleive this forum is a good indication as to how they work....people post here mostly when they have issues they cant solve themselves....its like a "problem" forum.......check out the wood forum. There are definitely alot of moving parts that can fail though! As for wood stoves, yep, pretty simple.......but, i wonder how much more work they are? Oh, yea, sorry, you enjoy that! How about cleanliness?


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> Vlad- cool name, by the way-
> 
> New England pellets are made in Jaffrey, NH AND Schuyler, New York. If there are any 2"ers or more, you WILL get hang issues in the hopper.
> 
> I dont beleive this forum is a good indication as to how they work....people post here mostly when they have issues they cant solve themselves....its like a "problem" forum.......check out the wood forum. There are definitely alot of moving parts that can fail though! As for wood stoves, yep, pretty simple.......but, i wonder how much more work they are? Oh, yea, sorry, you enjoy that! How about cleanliness?



Well, I realize people come here with problems, but the point is that in 3 seasons with a wood stove I never had to figure anything out, but with about a month of pellet stove I have had nothing but issues. All having to do with so called "conveniences" that pellet stove is supposed to afford over the wood stove. The automatic stop/start, hands-off operation, cleanliness, etc. I've been doing nothing but troubleshooting this stove since the day I got it (though if I leave it at 70 it seems to work fine) and am up to my elbows in soot (every time I clean the burn pot). With wood stove I just take the ashes out with a scoop and I'm done. Yes, I have to babysit the wood stove at start time and then get it up to temp, then choke it down (all manually), but my experience is: it is cleaner, more reliable and in the end is less hassle than the constant troubleshooting, burn pot scraping, and monitoring of the pellet stove. And from what I understand Harman is one of the better ones out there. Geesh! If I had a proper flue where I put the pellet stove I would definitely get a wood stove in there. The biggest advantage of the pellet stove is ability to direct-vent. Can't do that with a wood stove. Anyway, once I figure this out I'll be happy, but so far I am frustrated and either cold in the morning or spending way more fuel than I need to.


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## cac4 (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> Chuck, could you describe your setup? The venting and the intake as well as the space the stove is working with. Mine is in a large open space in the basement, maybe 1000 sq ft or a little more. It would be helpful to know what your setup is before concluding what the stove is capable of. Every setup is different and presents a different set of challenges for the stove. Also, do you use room temp or stove temp? If former, where is your room temp probe located?
> 
> Thanks!



My stove is in the corner of a 24'x36' garrison colonial, first floor, with an open floor plan.  the second floor has 3 bedrooms off a small hallway at the top of a center stairwell.  

The stove is vented out, then up with 3" pipe, through the fancy harman thimble, with its built-in outside air intake.  

I normally use room temp, with the probe extended about 10' along an adjacent wall, and sticking up behind the couch.  

I think LW is right when he says that you'll see a high percentage of reported problems here.  I, myself, don't recall ever starting a thread to remind everyone here that my stove is still working a-ok.  (but it is).   ;-P 

In my experience, nothing could possibly be any easier.  pour in pellets;  turn it on.  enjoy heat.  thats it.  but...my stove ain't broke.  

Anyway, the notion that this model stove is not capable, by design, of maintaining 65F, even when its working correctly, is bunk.  mine does it every night. 
I don't know what the problem might be, but I'm not sure I'm buying "long pellets", either.  If there was a jam-up, and pellets ceased feeding...the stove would just think that it ran out of pellets.  I don't believe I see an error code when I run out of pellets.  (maybe I do;  can't remember.  I'm sure I'll be corrected promptly if I am mistaken).


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 16, 2009)

Chuck, see last line ....

A 6 blink status may be caused by several things:
1. Blocked or partially blocked flue.
2. Blocked or partially blocked inlet air.
     a. backdraft damper on the inlet pipe may bestuck closed.
     b. if outside air is installed the inlet cover may be blocked.
3. The air chamber under the burnpot may be filled with fines and small bits of ash.
4. The holes in the burnpot may be getting filled with ash or carbon buildup.
5. Combustion blower fan blades may need cleaned.
6. Combustion intake assembly not properly latched.
7. No fuel in the hopper.   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Out of pellets gets you a 6 blink status


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## cac4 (Dec 16, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> but with about a month of pellet stove I have had nothing but issues. All having to do with so called "conveniences" that pellet stove is supposed to afford over the wood stove.


yes...it is "supposed" to be that way.  (more convenient than a wood stove).  if it isn't...its BROKEN.  



			
				vferdman said:
			
		

> ...The automatic stop/start, hands-off operation, cleanliness, etc. I've been doing nothing but troubleshooting this stove since the day I got it


cuz its been broke since the day you bought it.  

Imagine if I only had a crappy, run down, unreliable car to drive.  and its the only one I ever had, and it was "50/50" whether I ever reached my intended destination.  I might conclude that I'm better off to just walk.  And I might be right.  But to conclude that "cars are more trouble than they're worth"...well, thats not correct.  Busted ones are indeed, a pain in the arse.  But working ones are great!


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## cac4 (Dec 16, 2009)

Ha! I knew I'd be corrected soon enough!

go though the checklist.  there's a little plate under the burnpot where the ignitor lives...that has to be cleaned out.

There's also a flapper on that air intake...I wonder if its getting stuck closed, when the stove is running on low, (and not sucking too hard).  But when its crankin' along, it stays open.  just a thought.


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## vferdman (Dec 16, 2009)

cac4 said:
			
		

> Ha! I knew I'd be corrected soon enough!
> 
> go though the checklist.  there's a little plate under the burnpot where the ignitor lives...that has to be cleaned out.
> 
> There's also a flapper on that air intake...I wonder if its getting stuck closed, when the stove is running on low, (and not sucking too hard).  But when its crankin' along, it stays open.  just a thought.



I have checked ALL the things in the manual (as was quoted in an earlier post). In fact I've been checking them EVERY time I get 6 blinks, which is every day. I clean the burn pot, the chamber under it, I check the flapper on the inlet, I clean the combustion fan blades, I clean and clean and clean and clean. This stove is probably the cleanest stove in the country right now. The pellets are not too long and they feed great, I can hear them come down and I see a funnel formed in the pellet pile in the hopper. Pellets are 1.5" and shorter.  There are no "pencils" in the bag. These are high quality pellets that are well-respected in the area here where many people burn pellets. I tried disconnecting the outside air (I also have one of those fancy Harman thimbles that combines exhaust vent and intake air), I took out the feeder plate and made sure it was working well (it is), I replaced the ESP probe in the exhaust. I am still getting 6 blinks in the morning if I set the temp down to 65. I am at my wit's end. I understand your point about something being broken, but I am running out of options here.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 16, 2009)

I know you are getting frustrated, however did you ever finish tracing out the other end of that vacuum line?

The flapper in the air intake could free itself up before you get a chance to check it at night usually the temperature outside goes down maybe it sticks then and by the time you get to see it it has unstuck.

Since I don't own a Harmon, I'm intrigued by this:

6. Combustion intake assembly not properly latched.

perchance is there a gasket in that assembly that could be bad?


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## cac4 (Dec 17, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> I tried disconnecting the outside air (I also have one of those fancy Harman thimbles that combines exhaust vent and intake air), ...



Ok, that fancy harman thimble:  this might be out there, but when those things come out of the box, they have a chunk of foam stuck inside them (I assume its for support while shipping) that needs to be removed before running the stove.  It has happened that people (professional installers, even) have left them in there.  I would disconnect the intake air pipe from the thimble, and check it.  

One would still think that the stove would suffocate under all conditions...but who knows?  maybe, again, when its "cranking", it can suck through...but not when its down low.  

but then...you disconnected the oak altogether, and it still wouldn't run.  (??).  really really really tight house?  

It certainly wouldn't hurt to check.


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> I know you are getting frustrated, however did you ever finish tracing out the other end of that vacuum line?
> 
> The flapper in the air intake could free itself up before you get a chance to check it at night usually the temperature outside goes down maybe it sticks then and by the time you get to see it it has unstuck.
> 
> ...



I just spent some time playing with the vacuum switch. Absolutely nothing wrong detected. The clear hose comes down to the switch and plugs in to it. I put the feed dial into "Test" mode at which point all the motors come on including the feeder. I then pulled the hose off the switch and heard the feeder motor stop. Reconnecting the house started the motor. Sounds like it's working as it should. Of course, this was with the hot stove after it's been cranking all day. If I get the error code tomorrow I will repeat the test with the cold stove as it sits in error mode.

As for the flapper on the air intake, same deal. Very nice and loose, no signs of sticking. I have pulled the plug on the stove to stop the combustion motor and the flapper came down. I nudged it a few times by hand it was swinging freely back and forth. Plugging the stove in resumed normal operation. Again, this is with a stove in proper working order. I don't see how the flapper can behave any different with the cold stove, though as where it's located it's very cool and is not effected by the stove's heat. In fact, all that cool air being drawn in cools the intake.

As for Combustion intake assembly not properly latched, I honestly don't understand what they mean. There is no latch on the intake. There is metal shroud on the combustion fan that I take out during cleaning to access the fan and the exhaust port from the inside. That has latches and there is no gasket and it would not fit the wrong way. Again, I will examine that part again on the next error condition, but I took it out many times now and always vacuum all around there when I do and m,ake sure everything seats correctly. Will check again.

As for the other end of the vacuum hose, that's the only thing I have not checked except indirectly as described above. I don't know where it goes and so far no one has clued me in. I don't have a service manual for this thing, but again, on next error condition I'll try to trace where it goes. All I can say is it works properly when stove is cranking. I'll try to see where the other end is.


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

cac4 said:
			
		

> Ok, that fancy harman thimble:  this might be out there, but when those things come out of the box, they have a chunk of foam stuck inside them (I assume its for support while shipping) that needs to be removed before running the stove.  It has happened that people (professional installers, even) have left them in there.  I would disconnect the intake air pipe from the thimble, and check it.
> 
> One would still think that the stove would suffocate under all conditions...but who knows?  maybe, again, when its "cranking", it can suck through...but not when its down low.
> 
> ...



I was there when the thimble thing went into the wall and I saw the exact piece of foam you are talking about. I specifically asked what that was. I thought maybe a particle filter or something. The installer said it was just packaging and removed it right in front of me. And, yes, I did run the stove with the outside air hose completely disconnected at the stove (as opposed to at the thimble). Good point with the packaging foam. Looked like it may have belonged there.


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## rickwa (Dec 17, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> I know you are getting frustrated, however did you ever finish tracing out the other end of that vacuum line?
> 
> The flapper in the air intake could free itself up before you get a chance to check it at night usually the temperature outside goes down maybe it sticks then and by the time you get to see it it has unstuck.
> 
> ...


this is just a metal assembly that comes off so you can clean the comb fan from inside the stove and you can clean the exhaust tunnel back to the tee from inside the stove with ease. this is a very handy setup and it is similar on all the harmans


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 17, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
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> ...



Good to know.  

I am surprised that there isn't a gasket in such an arrangement considering what it allows access to the exhaust system. 

This is where I'm heading just so everyone understands, most of the items in that list are possible air flow issues that might lead to a loss of vacuum shut down.  The only thing that baffles me is why when trying to maintain a low setting at night.  At that point in time I'd expect incoming combustion air to drop in temperature and the metal it comes in contact with to contract, things like flapping dampers could become stuck inside a constricting tube.  

It could be a number of minor things that only become a problem when the bower is running at a lower setting, things such as bad gaskets, loose latches, an out of specification blower, maybe a software setting that isn't correct,  etc ...


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## Lousyweather (Dec 17, 2009)

so, it only "6 blinks" when you set the stove to a low temp? (65)? Otherwise, it does not?


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> so, it only "6 blinks" when you set the stove to a low temp? (65)? Otherwise, it does not?



So far that's been my experience. Just got done dealing with another 6 blink (it's a new morning, after all). Same deal. In fact, I woke up at around 5 am and looked in on the stove and it was working with a lively flame in it. Then at 8 am it had 6 blinks. I took everything apart again and cleaned it yet again. And yet again there was not much to clean. I checked the air intake flapper. It was NOT stuck. There were no unburnt pellets in the pot. There was a lot of ash on the edge of the pot as usual, but other than that nothing looked suspicious in the pot. The vacuum line was fine as when I restart the stove it fires right up. I will try to run it at 65 during the day today and see if I can catch the condition as it happens. I am really at a loos.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 17, 2009)

Can you reduce the draft just a tiny bit?  

It looks like the stove may be burning the pellets just a smidge too fast (I think just about every thing else has been ruled out), this could also account for why it goes out especially when the oxygen content of the intake air would be highest (minimum outside temperature time).

This is a setup adjustment and is described on page 12 of the manual.  It affects low burn.


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Can you reduce the draft just a tiny bit?
> 
> It looks like the stove may be burning the pellets just a smidge too fast (I think just about every thing else has been ruled out), this could also account for why it goes out especially when the oxygen content of the intake air would be highest (minimum outside temperature time).
> 
> This is a setup adjustment and is described on page 12 of the manual.  It affects low burn.



This is interesting. The low draft speed is set to the highest right now. I have no probe described in the manual, but I did turn the adjustment screw to see where it was set and it was at the max setting, i.e. making the fan spin the fastest (on low speed, of course). I did this by ear by turning the adjustment screw and listening to the fan. I put it back where I found it (max speed). I figured it is the best setting in my case since I don't have a way to properly adjust it with the right tool. I assumed more is better, but I am really a noob at the pellet stove stuff, so what do I know. I just got another 6 blink after restarting it at 8 am, so it burned for about an hour or two and shut down with 6 blinks. I purposely left all the temp settings as for the night and bingo! I got a shut-down. I'll go and turn the low draft down and see what happens.

What tricked me is the code is for incomplete combustion. That in my mind can only occur when there is not enough air, but it may be that there is too much air? I am willing to try anything at this point, so turning down the low draft speed it is for the next round...


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## Delta-T (Dec 17, 2009)

what is the position of your feed adjuster knob??


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 17, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually most error codes issued by pellet stoves are more than a bit miss leading in some cases.  Anytime you have more than one possible reason for an error code let alone 7 it is a crap shoot.  This is akin to unspecified syntactical error or results are unpredictable.

We still don't know that this is the cause but it is in keeping with what is going on,  unfortunately to properly set that you need a magnehelic.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 17, 2009)

Delta-T said:
			
		

> what is the position of your feed adjuster knob??



Vladimir, Delta-T is pointing out another means to the same end.   I believe that a number of folks run with the feed adjustment fairly wide and let the stove handle it. 

On my stove there are three setting for low burn 1-, 1 , 1 +

It is the only adjustment that was designed to compensate for pellet quality at a low burn rate on my stove.  I use it as a three level low burn.  Some stoves allow burn air adjustments for each selectable burn rate.   I'm aware of at least one that has a built in magnehelic and allows full adjustment of feed rate and combustion air.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 17, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Can you reduce the draft just a tiny bit?
> 
> It looks like the stove may be burning the pellets just a smidge too fast (I think just about every thing else has been ruled out), this could also account for why it goes out especially when the oxygen content of the intake air would be highest (minimum outside temperature time).
> 
> This is a setup adjustment and is described on page 12 of the manual.  It affects low burn.



smokey was alluding to where I was going weith this........without a magnehelic, its cant be quantifiably set, but you might reduce that setting somewhat......counterclockwise a bit.....


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> SmokeyTheBear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, from page 12 of the manual: 



> If the unit is not adjusted properly, it does not cause a safety concern. If the unit is adjusted too high, only efficiency is lost. If the unit is adjusted too low, the low draft pressure switch will not allow the feeder motor or the igniter to operate.



This leads me to believe that setting the low speed to maximum is harmless (at the cost of some efficiency), while setting it to minimum may cause stove shut down. Am I missing something? Anyway, I did adjust it down, so let's see what happens.

My feeder adjustment is at 5. I have moved it there from 4, but the behavior is the same. From what I understand the feeder adjustment is the time limit for the auger motor to operate at one time. In other words, on 4 it may only go on for 4o seconds at a time max, but can go on for shorter periods of time if the controller decides so. So, I am not sure if bumping it up may help. I will keep it in mind and will certainly try it as one other remedy. This actually makes a bit more sense since the incomplete combustion can only occur if there is not enough fuel or not enough air. Let's see where we are with a lower setting on the low draft speed. Don't want to change more than one thing at a time.


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## cac4 (Dec 17, 2009)

Can you check the voltage at the outlet where the stove is plugged in?  the factory sets the "draft" to be correct for a certain voltage  (can't remember what that is, exactly), and that can vary quite a bit from house to house.  I seem to remember people saying that the draft seldom needs to be changed from its factory default setting, if the voltage is near or at 120.  I recall checking mine w/ a voltmeter, and it was like 121v, so I didn't touch the draft.  (installed it myself, and I don't have a magnahelic, ).


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

cac4 said:
			
		

> Can you check the voltage at the outlet where the stove is plugged in?  the factory sets the "draft" to be correct for a certain voltage  (can't remember what that is, exactly), and that can vary quite a bit from house to house.  I seem to remember people saying that the draft seldom needs to be changed from its factory default setting, if the voltage is near or at 120.  I recall checking mine w/ a voltmeter, and it was like 121v, so I didn't touch the draft.  (installed it myself, and I don't have a magnahelic, ).



I get 123.7 Volts from the outlet where the stove is plugged into. This is measured with a Fluke 87 True RMS meter, which can be important. The lesser meters will read slightly off if the waveform of your current is anything less than a perfect sinusoid. Anyway, 123.7 is close enough to 120, I reckon.

Also, see the quote from page 12 of the user manual I provided in an earlier post about the voltage adjustments for the combustion motor. Basically, setting it to max should, in theory, guarantee no shut-down (albeit at the expense of more fuel usage). I had it set to max as it turns out and that would indeed be a reasonable factory setting.


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## Delta-T (Dec 17, 2009)

any chance the slide plate in the feeder mechanism is in upside down? the plate has a flat side and a side with a ridge. The ridge side should be facing up. if its facing down it can lead to too few pellets being fed.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 17, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> cac4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Setting it to max will only provide more combustion air, which can cause the pellets to burn faster thus emptying the burn pot leading to possible loss of fire. Which while not a safety issue is a burn issue.

The manual is quite clear in that this adjustment is likely not to be correct as comes from the factory, nor is it likely to be correct if the stove gets moved to a different location.


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## vferdman (Dec 17, 2009)

Delta-T said:
			
		

> any chance the slide plate in the feeder mechanism is in upside down? the plate has a flat side and a side with a ridge. The ridge side should be facing up. if its facing down it can lead to too few pellets being fed.



The slide plate is in correctly. I took apart the feeder mechanism and cleaned all the parts I could get to. Nothing was wrong. The plate would not go in with the ridge down (I tried), so I am 100% certain it is in with the flat side down. Anyway, my full throttle operation is fine and pellets are coming down good and plenty. Only low temp operation seems to be a problem.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 17, 2009)

ok, Vlad, prepare to have your problem corrected........dont pish-posh this before you try it.......

get some RTV, empty the hopper, and seal where the hopper meets the feeder weldment......dont use the stove for a day or so, since you'll have wet RTV at the base, causing pellet jambs......seen a few leaky hoppers do what you describe.....also, while youre at it, check the lid seal, but i think you've already done that. I think its a leak at the base of the hopper......


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## vferdman (Dec 18, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> ok, Vlad, prepare to have your problem corrected........dont pish-posh this before you try it.......
> 
> get some RTV, empty the hopper, and seal where the hopper meets the feeder weldment......dont use the stove for a day or so, since you'll have wet RTV at the base, causing pellet jambs......seen a few leaky hoppers do what you describe.....also, while youre at it, check the lid seal, but i think you've already done that. I think its a leak at the base of the hopper......



Well, since nothing else is working I think I will consider your suggestion. The hopper is nearly empty now. I had no fewer than 3 6 blink conditions today. I left the temp set at 65 all day to try and catch it, but never actually saw it go into the error mode. I would just look in on it now and then. Anyway, I also thought about an intermittent connection at the PCB. The wire from the ESP is very long and was coiled up inside the stove. It then goes up into the control box and terminates in a molex connector. I did not check that part of wiring, but the new ESP came with splices so as to leave the original black wire in place, cut the old ESP off and splice in the new one. The splice connectors are very cool type where you do not need to strip the wire, just insert the wires in and squeeze with pliers. So, I am thinking if there is a bad connection at the board I did not fix it with the new ESP. What troubles me about your theory of leaky hopper is that after the 6 blink condition is set I can restart the stove by unplugging and re-plugging it and it restarts and goes on for another significant period of time. This does not negate your theory, but still... Do these hoppers just sit on the weldment? Is there a gasket there? I have not looked at how the hopper mates to the weldment. Also, the installer looked and the hopper and said it is not one of those "problem" stoves that have a ring of discoloration on the hopper from smoke because of leaks. Anyway, I will definitely look into it. Especially if you give me more details on how to get to the place I want to RTV. Should RTV be high temp? I assume so.


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## jtakeman (Dec 18, 2009)

There is a draft adjustment on the control board. Have you tried playing with it? Maybe set to high. 
EDIT:
Sorry, I think its what SmokeyTheBear is talking about.


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## maglite67 (Dec 18, 2009)

Give the stove a good cleaning refer to your manual.  make sure you remove all the plates and clean behind the combustion fan.  The only time you need to change the draft is if you are going up verticaly.


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## rickwa (Dec 18, 2009)

the new stoves have a gasketed connection at the bottom of the hopper instead of the old silicone seal.  i thought the new style was suppose to be a improvement?


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## jtakeman (Dec 18, 2009)

maglite67 said:
			
		

> Give the stove a good cleaning refer to your manual.  make sure you remove all the plates and clean behind the combustion fan.  The only time you need to change the draft is if you are going up verticaly.



OP purchased stove used. Draft may have been adjusted for original owners long run or low house current. He may need to re-adjust for his setup.


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## rickwa (Dec 18, 2009)

v ferdman,  one more thing that very likely could be causing your problem that i had happen on a stove the other week.  take shields off the back if you havent already.  turn stove to test mode and check the rpms of the auger motor. it is a 4 rpm motor.  if the motor is taking more than 15 seconds to make 1 complete turn the motor is getting weak or the armature needs taken out and cleaned and oiled.  i have seen this situation more than once. and it only takes a couple of minutes to do.  if the motor is running slow or starting slow it starves the stove for fuel. on a higher burn it is getting enough to mantain a fire but on low it is not enough feed.  i forgot this is a gently used unit as opposed to new or i would have suggested this in the beginning. i would put money that this is you problem.  you have been through everything else i doubt it is your hopper seal.


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## vferdman (Dec 19, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> v ferdman,  one more thing that very likely could be causing your problem that i had happen on a stove the other week.  take shields off the back if you havent already.  turn stove to test mode and check the rpms of the auger motor. it is a 4 rpm motor.  if the motor is taking more than 15 seconds to make 1 complete turn the motor is getting weak or the armature needs taken out and cleaned and oiled.  i have seen this situation more than once. and it only takes a couple of minutes to do.  if the motor is running slow or starting slow it starves the stove for fuel. on a higher burn it is getting enough to mantain a fire but on low it is not enough feed.  i forgot this is a gently used unit as opposed to new or i would have suggested this in the beginning. i would put money that this is you problem.  you have been through everything else i doubt it is your hopper seal.



Thanks for that suggestion. I have taken the auger motor out and even taken the armature out. I did not count the RPMs, but it does seem fine. I will do the RPM test next time, but right now it got really cold and the stove is not shutting down since it does not go into low heat mode. I have it set at 66 degrees and it just cranks. Been cranking for two days now without stopping (temps have been in single digits here in New England). So, for now I can't really take the stove out of operation, but when the chance comes up I will definitely check the feed motor for 4 RPM. So, if the motor is weak what do you do to fix it. Replace? I am not sure what "weak" means. Electric motors either work or they don't. There could be a short in the windings somewhere, but that would make the motor intermittent or sensitive to heat, but nothing of the sort happens here. Did you replace your motor?

As far as hopper seal, again I can not take the stove out of service for several days now as it is really cold and it is not shutting down when under high demand. I do see some smoke in the hopper when the pellets are lo in it. Not sure that's a sign of a leaky seal. Not sure what a leaky seal would do to cause the stove to shut down either, but again, I am a newbie at this. It's very frustrating and I am already $50 in hole for the ESP that I don't think needed to be replaced. I am reluctant to replace more parts before I can be sure that it will fix the problem. I also have no idea how to get to the hopper seal. It seem to be pretty deep in the stove and looks like the whole stove needs to be taken apart to get to it. Not a mid-season kind of project.

Thanks again to everyone who is trying to help. I am really looking forward to solving this thing and posting the results.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 19, 2009)

"Electric motors either work or they don’t."

Not quite the way it works.  There is after all those nasty things known as bearings, a bearing that is losing lubricant will tend to slow an electric motor down.

It is also possible that increasing voltage (after all that is how these puppies are controlled) will have results in the other direction.  Motors are not binary devices.


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## vferdman (Dec 19, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> "Electric motors either work or they don’t."
> 
> Not quite the way it works.  There is after all those nasty things known as bearings, a bearing that is losing lubricant will tend to slow an electric motor down.
> 
> It is also possible that increasing voltage (after all that is how these puppies are controlled) will have results in the other direction.  Motors are not binary devices.




You are quite correct, motors are not binary devices. What I meant by saying they either work or not was in electrical sense. If the windings are intact, the motor is electrically sound. Of course, that armature is on bearings. In this particular case there is also a reduction gearbox directly mounted to the armature. In other words the end of the armature has a worm gear on it and goes straight into a gearbox which drives the sprocket.

In any case, it warmed up a bit (we are into low 20's!) before the snow storm and wouldn't you know it, I got a 6 blink shut down again. So, I took the back cover off and fired up the feed motor in test mode. At first I was looking at the auger sprocket and it took about 20 seconds to make one revolution. I had and "aha" moment, but then it occurred to me that the motor sprocket should be doing 4 RPM. Well, I timed it and it's right on the money. 15 seconds per revolution. Motor is quiet and smooth. I took the chain and sprocket off it anyway and removed the armature for inspection. It has two sealed bearings, one at each end and the above-mentioned worm gear. There is plenty of lubricant on the worm gear and the bearings feel nice and smooth. I re-assembled everything, got it all going again and again got a 6 blink shut down an hour later. I now bumped up the temp to 70 and restarted. Just want it to keep going for now.

Any other ideas?

Oh, and if anyone knows hoe to get to the hopper to inspect and possibly repair the seal to the feeder weldment?

Keep those ideas coming. This is a good one. So far nothing has worked. Haven't tried hopper seal repair yet, though.


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## rickwa (Dec 19, 2009)

my next step would to pull the auger. if you are getting smoke in the hopper your auger my be full of creosote or the area where pellets drop down into the auger may be partly clogged. to remove the auger pull sprocket off and loosen 2 bolts that hold auger into housing.  from the front take a hammer handle and place it on the end of the auger and tap it out with another hammer. it dont take much to pop it loose.


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## GVA (Dec 20, 2009)

What Exactly do you do after you get the 6 blink?

Do you have to stir the pellets in the hopper or do you just turn stove off then back on?


It's been a while but I don't believe harman has gone to worm gears, but I doubt it's the gearmotor itself when they fail they tend to break teeth and will pause during they cycle till the teeth don't mesh anymore at all.


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## GVA (Dec 20, 2009)

I'll add here since you own a 87 I assume you know what you are doing with it since most non electrical types don't drop a couple hundred on a meter.
Not that this is related but check for a hot / neutral reverse on the receptical the stove is plugged into.
I would suggest that you hook up the meter to a neutral and the NO contact on the Vacuum switch and put the 87 in min/max timed mode and walk away.
You should have 120 on it at all times the combustion blower is running.
Most people here are leaning on something with the draft being off and I agree


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## vferdman (Dec 20, 2009)

RETIRED GVA said:
			
		

> I'll add here since you own a 87 I assume you know what you are doing with it since most non electrical types don't drop a couple hundred on a meter.
> Not that this is related but check for a hot / neutral reverse on the receptical the stove is plugged into.
> I would suggest that you hook up the meter to a neutral and the NO contact on the Vacuum switch and put the 87 in min/max timed mode and walk away.
> You should have 120 on it at all times the combustion blower is running.
> Most people here are leaning on something with the draft being off and I agree



When the stove shuts down I just unplug it and then plug it back in. If it cooled off enough to go into high draft mode by the time I do that it will burn for a while on high and then when it gets into low draft mode it will eventually shut down. My workaround so far has been to keep the room temperature setting at 70, which tends to keep the stove in high draft mode and keep working (at the expense of extra fuel, of course).

As far as Fluke 87, I am indeed a EE who worked for many years in low level software development (firmware, really). This kind of software development has mostly kept my hardware skills fresh and a DMM, oscilloscope, logic analyzer, etc. were never far away from my desk. Having said that, let me assure you that I did not drop couple of hundred on the 87. I bought it on ebay used for much less than that. However, I appreciate your sentiment that an average homeowner would likely not own a Fluke meter or even know what those are all about. In fact, most people do not know why true RMS can be important (in case of most inverters, for example).

In any case, I think I may have solved the problem. I am just waiting to make sure enough time without shut down passes before I pronounce success.

The last suggestion that I followed was to take out the auger, clean it and re-seal the bearing assembly that keeps ambient air out of the burn pot. Well, I did just that last night. I took the auger out and the tip of it was naturally pretty caked up in carbon. Not terrible, though. The bearing assembly had remnants of some black silicone sealant that I removed and cleaned the metal groove it was in. I did notice in one spot there was discoloration making it outside the bearing. A very small spot, but it seems like it was leaking there just a little bit. I applied blue RTV to the groove and re-assembled the auger. I then noticed a small rubber plug with two wires in it going through the weldment just below and to the right of the auger. That plug carries wires for the igniter. It too had that black silicone stiff around it, but not too much. I removed it, cleaned off old silicone and applied new one and reassembled. Waited an hour to let RTV set up. Fired up the stove and got several shut downs right away. Decided to call it a night and look into it some more in the morning. So, I set the stove to 70, fired it up and left it alone. It burned great through the night on 70, so in the morning I set to 65 and waited for it shut down so I could work on it again. Well, it did not shut down! I set it to 63 and waited some more. It did not shut down! It is still burning on 63-65 setting. I will let it go overnight and if there is no shut down I will call victory. I think the silicone did not set last night yet and was leaking. It set up over night and all is well. So goes my theory. Time will tell.

Thanks to all again for lots of info and good advice. Once this thing is fixed I will post a follow-up.


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## GVA (Dec 21, 2009)

Well since all you do is unplug the stove and plug it back in (you can just turn the knob to off then back on for the 6 blink) it's likley not a bridge in the hopper.
Usually the cure for this is to insert your hand in the hopper and stir the pellets.

I just retired my Fluke 77 after 20 years of use and now use a 12 on the floor and a 87 at my desk.

There are several things that cause the 6 blink
Board
ESP
no pellets
The stove actually is sensing poor combustion.

ESP has been changed
that leaves the board or no pellets......Usually

reason for no pellets

Auger motor is bad
bridge in the hopper
bad combustion blower
bad vacuum switch
plugged exhaust
leak in the system
or any combo of the above

we just need to break down all the above
if you're vac switch opens while the combustion blower is running then 
you have a weak draft caused by a failing comb blower, plugged exhaust, leak somewhere in the negative pressure fire box etc.......

It's possible that you did get a bad ESP replacement....Though doubtfull

If it was a small vacuum leak then turning the draft pot all the way down would trip the stove more frequently I would suspect.

I think that you may have a bit more natural draft right now due to the cold temps that have arrived in Mass, (though i've been wrong before)  

I think the vac switch IS opening for some reason though.....


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## rickwa (Dec 21, 2009)

good point gva.  between the 2 of you, you should be able to come up with a way to hook up a meter on the vac switch and record for a period of time to see if the switch is dropping out.  the vac switch is in the neutral circuit going to igniter and auger motor.  that would rule out the switch.  

V have you tried any different pellets to rule out your fuel source yet?


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## vferdman (Dec 21, 2009)

RETIRED GVA said:
			
		

> Well since all you do is unplug the stove and plug it back in (you can just turn the knob to off then back on for the 6 blink) it's likley not a bridge in the hopper.
> Usually the cure for this is to insert your hand in the hopper and stir the pellets.



No, there is no pellet bridge. I am aware of that issue and am sure to prevent it as I fill the hopper. I also actually hear the pellets drop into the auger feed.




			
				RETIRED GVA said:
			
		

> I just retired my Fluke 77 after 20 years of use and now use a 12 on the floor and a 87 at my desk.



Flukes are the best multimeters I know of. When I was beginning my EE career I worked as a peon at an R&D lab (back in the 80's) and that is all we had. Kind of got used to them there and then when I bought a Sears meter once for home use could not stand it. I waited about 5 years or so for the Sears meter to die and then bought the 87. I love the 87 and expect to bequeath it to my children and grandchildren  




			
				RETIRED GVA said:
			
		

> There are several things that cause the 6 blink
> Board
> ESP
> no pellets
> ...



Well, the stove's been running on 65 the whole night now, which is a first since I've owned it. I am keeping it on 65 for now. I did get a 5 blink error last night ebfore I went to bed, which is unsuccessful ignition. I cleaned out the burn pot because it had a lot of hard carbon chunks stuck to sides and bottom probably covering some air holes. Anyway, I am dismissing this 5 blink event for now since I think it is unrelated to the original issue. 

It seems sealing the auger assembly has done the trick. I will reserve final judgment for another day or two to eliminate doubt. 

Thanks to all once again. It was a very frustrating session, but if it concluded with success then I am good with that. Learning a lot abut these things.

As an aside, can anyone tell me how the inside of the stove is kept under negative pressure? Is it just due to combustion motor? I am thinking the combustion motor takes in as much air as it pushes out, so where is vacuum coming from? Just trying to satisfy the engineer in me.


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## vferdman (Dec 21, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> good point gva.  between the 2 of you, you should be able to come up with a way to hook up a meter on the vac switch and record for a period of time to see if the switch is dropping out.  the vac switch is in the neutral circuit going to igniter and auger motor.  that would rule out the switch.
> 
> V have you tried any different pellets to rule out your fuel source yet?



No, did not try different pellets. I am burning what most people in my area burn. I doubt they are a problem or there would be a pretty big stink about it. Anyway, the stove seems to be running without shut-downs now after I removed the auger and re-sealed it. time will tell.


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## rickwa (Dec 21, 2009)

in simple terms on vac question. the air and exhaust is being pulled out of the stove. the air inlet is alittle smaller than the outlet and the air has to travel through the passage ways in the stove which cause restriction, which cause resistance, which causes vacuum.  it is a very small amount like .3 inches of water column


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## vferdman (Dec 22, 2009)

rickwa said:
			
		

> in simple terms on vac question. the air and exhaust is being pulled out of the stove. the air inlet is alittle smaller than the outlet and the air has to travel through the passage ways in the stove which cause restriction, which cause resistance, which causes vacuum.  it is a very small amount like .3 inches of water column



Got you. Thanks for the explanation. I was just thinking that air in MUST equal air out, so where is the vacuum coming from? restrictions in the air flow the pressure will drop a little. Very little and hence the great sensitivity to minute leaks. If my fox worked (and looks like it did) the leak in the auger bearing assembly was truly minute.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 22, 2009)

vferdman said:
			
		

> rickwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes it only takes a little leak to cause trouble and the trouble can come in several forms.  

You experienced one, there are others, the biggest one for puffer stoves is additional ash generation, poor ash ejection leading to burn pot overflow and fires in the ash bin or pellet chute and hopper.


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## vferdman (Dec 22, 2009)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> vferdman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great! Always something to look forward to.


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