# Boycott Wood Pellets this Year



## UpStateNY (Jun 7, 2015)

With the price of wood pellets up from $200 to over $280 a ton and the price of fuel oil down to $2.39 a gallon, I am thinking of boycotting buying Wood Pellets this year.   

The price for wood pellets in Germany is $290/ton for American made wood pellets. Something is not right.  Its not right to sell America's wood pellets to Europe at some ridiculous low price before shipment and then turn around and charge Americans high prices.  This is not right.  

Time for me to rethink wood pellets as a heat source.


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## jackman (Jun 7, 2015)

Too late for me. I just stacked my pellets for next season @ $199/ton.


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## Kingdoc (Jun 7, 2015)

And the first frost price bump has not happened yet ether. I love New York!


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## TimfromMA (Jun 7, 2015)

For us, pellets are still a bit less expensive than oil. The price difference would not justify buying a pellet stove right now but since I have one already, we'll keep on burning. I was going to buy a second stove for the lower level but I've put those plans on hold for now.


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 7, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> With the price of wood pellets up from $200 to over $280 a ton .......


Are you saying the same pellet, at the same dealer went up 80 bucks?
That's a pretty hefty hike.
Dan


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> With the price of wood pellets up from $200 to over $280 a ton and the price of fuel oil down to $2.39 a gallon, I am thinking of boycotting buying Wood Pellets this year.
> 
> The price for wood pellets in Germany is $290/ton for American made wood pellets. Something is not right.  Its not right to sell America's wood pellets to Europe at some ridiculous low price before shipment and then turn around and charge Americans high prices.  This is not right.
> 
> Time for me to rethink wood pellets as a heat source.




So purchase foreign oil and fill the pockets of some foreign oil company, sounds like a perfect way to stick it to pellet producers. If you no longer want your pellet stove i'd be happy to take it off your hands and donate to a family in my area.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 7, 2015)

Most of the oil comes from the U.S now.

Welcome to the energy market David.


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## Kingdoc (Jun 7, 2015)




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## smwilliamson (Jun 7, 2015)

Why do so many people justify everything they do against how they spend. seems like a miserable way to live. So it's going to cost $160 more a year to buy heat a year. And the guy that buys and sells pellets can't make a living either! Everyone wants to have it cheap and have it local until it costs a little more.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 7, 2015)

Uh, well, I seem to remember people burning pellets because it was cheaper than oil...

People got choices. People make choices. Won't make a difference in the 68% of the country that doesn't heat with oil anyway.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Most of the oil comes from the U.S now.
> 
> Welcome to the energy market David.



All of US made wood pellets come form, well, the US. All 100% of them. just saying


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## BrotherBart (Jun 7, 2015)

This conversation is headed to PMs pretty fast, but somebody posting their alternatives here isn't gonna buy them a guilt trip. Period.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 7, 2015)

PMs?


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## BrotherBart (Jun 7, 2015)

Private Messages. AKA "conversations".


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## Highbeam (Jun 8, 2015)

jackman said:


> Too late for me. I just stacked my pellets for next season @ $199/ton.



Probably the good Doug fir too?


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## jackman (Jun 8, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Probably the good Doug fir too?


Yep, and very local too. The pellet mill is 40 miles up the road. It's been the same price for 4 years.


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## bogieb (Jun 8, 2015)

Do whatever makes you happy. As a recent pellet stove convert (Jan 2013) I've never known cheaper pellets, so it makes no never-mind to me. Plus, I don't have an oil burner, so oil prices aren't a consideration.

I have done the math and pellets could go up to about $525/ton before I start paying more for pellets than for propane (using the lock-in price I was just offered last week). And at that, the basement wouldn't be heated so I would have electric heaters set up to keep pipes next to the garage from freezing.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> I am thinking of boycotting buying Wood Pellets this year.


That will teach "them"!


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## snocross1985 (Jun 8, 2015)

Despite any possible price increase I will be burning pellets next season. My only other option is to turn on the electric baseboards. With electric rates around $0.19/kWh I shudder to think of what my heating cost would be.


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## vinny11950 (Jun 8, 2015)

snocross1985 said:


> Despite any possible price increase I will be burning pellets next season. My only other option is to turn on the electric baseboards. With electric rates around $0.19/kWh I shudder to think of what my heating cost would be.



Same thing here.  Baseboard electric heating is not very good in the dead of winter and very expensive.

Pellet stove heat is a nice warm air that you feel immediately.  And the flame is great to look at and enjoy.  I would consider natural gas if it was available in my area, but it is not.  And I don't trust oil to stay low for too long.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2015)

To the OP:  Any thought of switching to a woodstove?  No more augers, pellet demand or quality issues, or running firmware updates on your stove!


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## Mark_ms (Jun 8, 2015)

We don't need no stinkin' boycotting in this household


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## Jack Morrissey (Jun 8, 2015)

Wow, very interesting reactions!!  I tend to agree with the op, however, i'm not boycotting pellets, just waiting for a good deal to come along, hopefully and if not- oil.  Myself I get real tired of price increases blamed on the high cost of diesel and when that goes way down nothing else follows, just like electricity


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## DneprDave (Jun 8, 2015)

I still get douglas fir pellets for $198/ton, the mill is about 35 miles away, they say it is the oldest pellet mill in the US. A local lumberyard stocks their pellets year round.

I also just split and stacked two cords of wood for the wood stove, but that didn't cost me anything but my labor.


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## TimfromMA (Jun 8, 2015)

Ashful said:


> To the OP:  Any thought of switching to a woodstove?  No more augers, pellet demand or quality issues, or running firmware updates on your stove!



No more auto ignition, thermostat control, 20+ hours of even heat before needing to reload, ease of storage....


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> No more auto ignition, thermostat control, 20+ hours of even heat before needing to reload, ease of storage....


A Blaze King and a match will get all that done, except replace your 20 hours with 30 - 40 hours.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 8, 2015)

you would have to be paying $300 a ton to equal the $2.39/gal (assuming delivered, and BTU of 8,700 for pellets). So you can boycott but it will cost you more money to do so.. Just some hard numbers and food for thought. Speaking of food, i'm hungry


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## Tonyray (Jun 8, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> No more auto ignition, thermostat control, 20+ hours of even heat before needing to reload, ease of storage....


yeah.. who wants to put up with all that convenience...


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## Kingdoc (Jun 8, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> No more auto ignition, thermostat control, 20+ hours of even heat before needing to reload, ease of storage....


  For me the ability to have heat and cooking in the event of a power outage outweigh conveniences.


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## Highbeam (Jun 8, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> No more auto ignition, *thermostat control, 20+ hours of even heat before needing to reload,* ease of storage....



My woodstove has a thermostat and can burn for 30 hours. Zero noise, no power needed, cheaper fuel, .....

There have been many woodstove vs. pellet threads. They're fun!


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## Peterfield (Jun 8, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> My woodstove has a thermostat and can burn for 30 hours. Zero noise, no power needed, cheaper fuel, .....
> 
> There have been many woodstove vs. pellet threads. They're fun!



Yeah, well my pellet stove can beat up your woodstove any day.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 8, 2015)

Woodstove vs Pellet stove LIVE on PPV next Sat night.


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## UpStateNY (Jun 8, 2015)

Ashful said:


> To the OP:  Any thought of switching to a woodstove?  No more augers, pellet demand or quality issues, or running firmware updates on your stove!



I have not had any wood pellet stove problems "knock on wood"  since I purchased it.  Except the electric starters no longer works.  

I did wood stove for 5 years in my younger days many moons ago.  I would see a local orchard with all the apple trees pushed down to get ready to replant new apple trees or replace with grapes. I would stop and ask the farmer if I can get the free apple wood laying down.   Farmers always said yes because it made getting rid of the branches and stump I left behind a lot easier.  I loved burning apple wood.  It coaled up nice and had a nice smell. I had access to a  wood splitter because Apple wood grain is twisty and hard to split.   Bottom line is its a lot of work and I am lot older now.


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## John Ackerly (Jun 8, 2015)

The bigger the house, the more you can potentially save with a pellet stove, even if you heat with gas.  Because with pellets, you can just keep your living space warm and not heat entire house, especially rooms you don't use.  Of course, this take the kind of family that doesn't mind cold bedrooms.  This difference in amount of space heated gets overlooked in all the fuel calculators and others who are just multiplying price times BTUs.


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## Ashful (Jun 8, 2015)

John Ackerly said:


> Of course, this take the kind of family that doesn't mind cold bedrooms.


John, you don't necessarily have to think about it like that.  I keep the t'stats cycling the oil-fired boiler just as I would without the wood stoves, keeping all corners of the house comfortably warm, but every BTU I pump into the envelope of my house from wood is one less BTU I must extract from oil.


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## TimfromMA (Jun 9, 2015)

Is there anyone who switched from pellets to wood and were glad they did?


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## Bioburner (Jun 9, 2015)

Propain here currently running at $1.29. They figure gas and fuel having peaked right now and going down at least into next spring providing someone does not start throwing ordinance etc or a hurricane disrupts oil refineries and imports.
We have a standing pilot propane stove for backup and several camping stoves to cook on if the power goes out and cant get a genny up and running.


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## TheOscarGuy (Jun 9, 2015)

John Ackerly said:


> The bigger the house, the more you can potentially save with a pellet stove, even if you heat with gas.  Because with pellets, you can just keep your living space warm and not heat entire house, especially rooms you don't use.  Of course, this take the kind of family that doesn't mind cold bedrooms.  This difference in amount of space heated gets overlooked in all the fuel calculators and others who are just multiplying price times BTUs.



This assuming that the house does not have zoned heat. If you have zones, then your bedroom heat is not on when you/the family are/is downstairs in main living room/area. And when you are upstairs in bedrooms the main living room area does not need to be heated.

I am not against stoves. But this explanation does not apply to a lot of houses, especially big ones -- if a house is big enough, and new enough, there is a good chance that they also have zoned heat. What you are proposing above works with zoned heat as well.


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## slls (Jun 9, 2015)

For me pellets are good up to Dec 1 and then April 1, in between HHO, too many 40 lb bags in the dead of winter


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## Ashful (Jun 9, 2015)

TheOscarGuy said:


> This assuming that the house does not have zoned heat. If you have zones, then your bedroom heat is not on when you/the family are/is downstairs in main living room/area. And when you are upstairs in bedrooms the main living room area does not need to be heated.
> 
> I am not against stoves. But this explanation does not apply to a lot of houses, especially big ones -- if a house is big enough, and new enough, there is a good chance that they also have zoned heat. What you are proposing above works with zoned heat as well.


It's also assuming you're not married.  I have ten zones... and my wife is known to turn nearly all of them up at the same time.


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## Mpodesta (Jun 9, 2015)

I usually burn w/e I can find the cheapest. The pellets i been running (orfords) shot up 60$, so i'll be buying more from lowes/tsc/depot this year (unless someone from Maine has a supplier my way...wink wink)


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## moey (Jun 9, 2015)

John Ackerly said:


> The bigger the house, the more you can potentially save with a pellet stove, even if you heat with gas.  Because with pellets, you can just keep your living space warm and not heat entire house, especially rooms you don't use.  Of course, this take the kind of family that doesn't mind cold bedrooms.  This difference in amount of space heated gets overlooked in all the fuel calculators and others who are just multiplying price times BTUs.



Why buy a bigger house then if you cant afford to heat all of it? You could just live in your bedroom with a space heater then and save even more money.


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## moey (Jun 9, 2015)

TheOscarGuy said:


> This assuming that the house does not have zoned heat. If you have zones, then your bedroom heat is not on when you/the family are/is downstairs in main living room/area. And when you are upstairs in bedrooms the main living room area does not need to be heated.
> 
> I am not against stoves. But this explanation does not apply to a lot of houses, especially big ones -- if a house is big enough, and new enough, there is a good chance that they also have zoned heat. What you are proposing above works with zoned heat as well.



Heating systems are sized for all zones to be running or nearly all. If your only heating a fraction of your house your central heat is operating inefficiently its probably short cycling.


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## Pellet-King (Jun 9, 2015)

snocross1985 said:


> Despite any possible price increase I will be burning pellets next season. My only other option is to turn on the electric baseboards. With electric rates around $0.19/kWh I shudder to think of what my heating cost would be.


.0699 here, live free or die, there is screwin you over....you pay no tax but get (bleeped) other way's


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## Mpodesta (Jun 9, 2015)

Jesus, wish my elec was that low.........@.18 here


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## Ashful (Jun 9, 2015)

moey said:


> Why buy a bigger house then if you cant afford to heat all of it? You could just live in your bedroom with a space heater then and save even more money.


Don't mix up what one can afford, with their choices in how they spend their money.  Some find fun in being frugal.


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## SidecarFlip (Jun 9, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Do whatever makes you happy. As a recent pellet stove convert (Jan 2013) I've never known cheaper pellets, so it makes no never-mind to me. Plus, I don't have an oil burner, so oil prices aren't a consideration.
> 
> I have done the math and pellets could go up to about $525/ton before I start paying more for pellets than for propane (using the lock-in price I was just offered last week). And at that, the basement wouldn't be heated so I would have electric heaters set up to keep pipes next to the garage from freezing.


 
+1 on that and propane here is a bit cheaper.  Of course I alternatively have corn to roast too.

20+ years ago when it wasn't 'mainstream' to heat with a pellet burner and I was 'that hippie farmer on the dirt road' that heated my house with weird looking stuff that smelled like wood and looked like some kind of cereal, pellets were around $125.00 a ton, howevere, there was no selection to speak of (I used Fiber Products in White Pigeon, Michigan) back then or Lignetics, those were my choices and I had to order them through a retail outlet well in advance, like in June for a September delivery.

I realize (because I subscribe to all the industry magazines( that there is a huge uptick in pellet production, with most of the product going to Europe to fuel their biomass power generation units, but those pellets aren't the same thing that you buy at your local retailer and they are sold in bulk, by the shipload, not skidded and bagged for residential use.

This old hippie has lost most of his hair but I'm still young at heart.  I just like to sleep more now.....


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## Pellet-King (Jun 10, 2015)

It may be the first year in 30 years of burning wood then pellets that I may pass on burning pellets, might buy a few tons for the coldest days, last summer I was all set to switch to NG, had the latest 98% efficent Lennox furnace all set, called Yankee Gas, on there website says FREE hookup from street, well once I told them I live on a state road they changed there tune real fast and said due to thicker asphalt, special permit and police directing traffic it would cost $6k...F That!
I have a noisy 20 yr old  forced air system now, I hate it because my bedroom is right above the furnace and the duct is the first on the tree and is very loud....WHOOOSH!!, Anyone here is into ductwork please contact me.


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## PinetreePellets (Jun 10, 2015)

Mpodesta said:


> I usually burn w/e I can find the cheapest. The pellets i been running (orfords) shot up 60$, so i'll be buying more from lowes/tsc/depot this year (unless someone from Maine has a supplier my way...wink wink)


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## BKVP (Jun 10, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> Is there anyone who switched from pellets to wood and were glad they did?


Call me partial and you'd be correct....but I had a "state of the art" pellet stove when I first moved to the NW.  I bought it new and had it installed.  It was great except cleaning and parts replacement.  It did a satisfactory job of heating but my better half hated loading the bags into the hopper. (The melted plastic bags were proof of her inability to lift 40lbs over a hot surface...which I had to scrape off from time to time.)

Several years later I went to work for my current employer (now 18 years later), THERE IS NO WAY I WILL GO BACK....UNTIL I AM TOO OLD TO HANDLE CORD WOOD!

I do acknowledge there are many fine wood stoves out there that may have more maintenance or ash clearIng requirements and that would be important to take into consideration.  

BUT NOT ALL WOOD STOVES ARE EQUAL. (Nor are all pellets stoves, I assume)


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## TimfromMA (Jun 11, 2015)

Dont load directly from the bags. Either scoop the pellets out or transfer them into a bucket for easy pouring.


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 11, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> .0699 here, live free or die, there is screwin you over....you pay no tax but get (bleeped) other way's


Wow... that seems pretty low... Are you looking at what your bill says is the cost for a KWH,
or are you dividing what your total bill is by the number of KWH..
My son lives in CT, he pays a lot more than that...

I don't care what the utility company says the rate is.
I look at how much I write the check out for, and how many KWH I used... that is the REAL cost...
You have to figure in all of those fees, taxes, surcharges etc... as the real cost.
We pay .19, yes. But that includes all the crap on the bill we don't understand.. 

Dan


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## moey (Jun 11, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> .0699 here, live free or die, there is screwin you over....you pay no tax but get (bleeped) other way's



Total Bill/killowatt hrs used. Id be shocked if you were paying .0699 at the end of the day. I suspect you are in the .16-18c range per kw/hr. Theres only a few places in the country that are that cheap think giant dam in your neighborhood.


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## Highbeam (Jun 11, 2015)

moey said:


> Total Bill/killowatt hrs used. Id be shocked if you were paying .0699 at the end of the day. I suspect you are in the .16-18c range per kw/hr. Theres only a few places in the country that are that cheap think giant dam in your neighborhood.


Giant dam in my neighborhood (close anyway) and we still pay about 9 cents all in. Those low .0699 rates per KWH are only to fool the general public into thinking their power is cheap.


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## john193 (Jun 12, 2015)

I can see why people are taken back.  I called my usual pellet dealer and the barefoots i got for 260 last year are 285 now.  I figured they would go up, but with the lower gas prices assumed the increase wouldn't be as steep.


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## John Ackerly (Jun 12, 2015)

moey said:


> Why buy a bigger house then if you cant afford to heat all of it? You could just live in your bedroom with a space heater then and save even more money.



Unfortunately, this is what a lot of poor people do during the winter.  I'd rather do it around a wood stove in the living room than a electric space heater in the bedoroom!


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## 3650 (Jun 12, 2015)

I think (may change mind) I puchased my last ton last year.  I've got a 200,000 btu wood burner in the basement, 500 gallons of propane and one ton of left over Sommersets from last season so I'm good as far as I know.  Take that greedy pellet industry! Never thought I'd buy propane again....never say never, right?


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## slls (Jun 12, 2015)

Strange, oil went down and pellets up. Why?  $200 less to fill tank this year.


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## TMonter (Jun 12, 2015)

slls said:


> Strange, oil went down and pellets up. Why?  $200 less to fill tank this year.



Demand. Demand for pellets is higher than it's ever been on the world market.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 12, 2015)

Yep. And demand for pellets generating electricity around the world is year around. Not just a cold weather thing.


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## moey (Jun 12, 2015)

slls said:


> Strange, oil went down and pellets up. Why?  $200 less to fill tank this year.



The major cost in pellet production is electricity most electric rates are up or flat. Distribution cost (oil) is a much smaller %.

Although I wont claim the price increase is entirely from that I know as much as everyone else here.


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## Ashful (Jun 12, 2015)

My firewood still costs the same price.  That price is a few very enjoyable days in the woods, each year.


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## chken (Jun 13, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> .0699 here, live free or die, there is screwin you over....you pay no tax but get (bleeped) other way's


Is that the electricity price including delivery? We pay about 7.5 cents per kWh not much different than you, but the power utility tacks on another 7 cents for delivery, so 14.5 cents in total. The other person's 19 cents a kWh may have included the delivery charge.


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## blades (Jun 13, 2015)

My delivery /maintenance/rental/ and whatever else is on the bill or hidden - exceeds or matches my base charges for the electric power or NG gas. Some months the administration fees are 2-3 times the base cost of either item. Although both are administered by the same company I am billed separate administration fees for each item.


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## Brian26 (Jun 13, 2015)

Not a pellet burner but heating oil here in CT if you live close to the New Haven terminal is $2.20 a gallon. I filled the tank for just under $2 a gallon when oil hit a low back in Jan. Many friends here in CT that had pellet stoves found it cheaper and easier to just turn up the t-stat this past winter. Save the pellets for when heating oil is $4 a gallon like last winter...


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## Ashful (Jun 13, 2015)

chken said:


> Is that the electricity price including delivery? We pay about 7.5 cents per kWh not much different than you, but the power utility tacks on another 7 cents for delivery, so 14.5 cents in total. The other person's 19 cents a kWh may have included the delivery charge.


Then you pay 14.5 cents.  Why discuss 7.5 cents, at all?

These single-cent "price to compare" numbers folks see on their bill seem to have people thinking that's what they pay, when it's usually only half the bill.  Not sure I really care what the fractional breakdown is, other than noting that conservation is only half-effective in lowering my bill.

Maybe the lesson learned here is that the best way to lower your rate is use more.  Then those admin fees are amortized over a larger base kWh.  [emoji12]


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## riverat (Jun 13, 2015)

Guess I am the unfortunate one, just bought 2 ton of Turman for $260.00 a ton, we still enjoy the nice radiant heat that the pellet stove gives off

    Jeff


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## UpStateNY (Jun 14, 2015)

riverat said:


> Guess I am the unfortunate one, just bought 2 ton of Turman for $260.00 a ton, we still enjoy the nice radiant heat that the pellet stove gives off
> 
> Jeff



Jeff,  that loud noise your pellet stove is making,  blowing hot air into the room, means it is not radiant heat.


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## Jason845845 (Jun 14, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> Jeff,  that loud noise your pellet stove is making,  blowing hot air into the room, means it is not radiant heat.


My englander stove gave off very nice radiant heat with the fire being so close to the glass and the whole stove itself got nice and warm. My Harman not so much.


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## Enzo's Dad (Jun 14, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> .0699 here, live free or die, there is screwin you over....you pay no tax but get (bleeped) other way's



Um CT has one of the highest prices for electricity in the nation, look at your bill eversource charges a $99 delivery charge. Your base bill is over $100, I would not focus on the kilowatt charge.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

Only Hawaii is higher than Ct


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## Enzo's Dad (Jun 14, 2015)

Just a note, long term I think pellets and wood stoves provide a better type of heat than oil, gas, and electricity, that's why we like them. 

I have a hard time focusing on the cost, it could make you head spin. I'm not sure how much money I save if any burning wood. There are chainsaws, woodsheds,tractors,,,etc. I do know that I am removing all the dead ash trees from my property and my first floor is ridiculously warm. 

People don't like to pay for cost of living expenses it strikes a nerve in all of us. I bought my first house in 97 oil was 1.06 a gallon, natural gas was way more expensive especially when you factor in the conversion. I guess my point is don't focus on short term events. I don't think oil will be this cheap long term, so enjoy the 80 degree room the pellet stove is in.


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## Peterfield (Jun 14, 2015)

I checked one of my electric bills the other day and the total was $90.00, half of which was made up of transmission costs, universal fees, federal this, state that, etc.


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## boo boo (Jun 14, 2015)

We bought our stove to supplement the heating cost of oil in 2012 . Heats the entire home. Kind of tough to go back now


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 14, 2015)

Enzo's Dad said:


> .... I bought my first house in 97 oil was 1.06 a gallon.....


You just made a ton of us feel really old... The ones that remember when oil was less than 20 cents,....

Dan


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## boo boo (Jun 14, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> You just made a ton of us feel really old... The ones that remember when oil was less than 20 cents,....
> 
> Dan


I feel better I think it was around .55 when I started buying my own in 1984


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## bogieb (Jun 15, 2015)

boo boo said:


> I feel better I think it was around .55 when I started buying my own in 1984


I don't remember what it was in 1987, but both gasoline and oil were cheap.


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## bogieb (Jun 15, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> I checked one of my electric bills the other day and the total was $90.00, half of which was made up of transmission costs, universal fees, federal this, state that, etc.



My bill is $69.90 for the last month - energy charge of 35.80 - the rest are various fees that are raised/lower depending upon energy consumption. Here is the actual breakdown of charges per KWH:

0.041 distribution charge
0.018 transmission charge
0.001 Stranded cost recovery
0.003 Systems benefits charge
0.105 energy charge

Oh, and just to be a customer costs me 12.50/month.

Since I used 339 KWHs this month, my actual rate came out to $0.206 / KWH.


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## Bioburner (Jun 15, 2015)

Winter of 03-04 paid 87 cents for fuel oil and corn was under $2 and off peak electric was 4 cents with a connect fee of $8 a month now $25


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## ScotL (Jun 16, 2015)

Enzo's Dad said:


> Um CT has one of the highest prices for electricity in the nation, look at your bill eversource charges a $99 delivery charge. Your base bill is over $100, I would not focus on the kilowatt charge.
> 
> http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a
> 
> Only Hawaii is higher than Ct


Mass is higher too but not by much. They passed CT in 2015 for all but the Industrial market. The regulators in CT probably won't like that and will be looking to take back their #1 spot next year.
If you generate power with renewable energy, the Mass REC (renewable energy credits) market is one of the most difficult to get into - and the most valuable. The requirements are the most stringent in the country. That's also related to why the costs are so high.


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## CleanFire (Jun 20, 2015)

I finished doing the numbers comparing #2 fuel oil use vs. pellets & oil this week.  Thought others may be interested in this info..

Usage:

We burned 265 gallons of fuel oil from 9/1/2014 through 12/21/2014, the "official" start date of the pellet stove here.
(The house temperature, measured at floor, was an average of 62 degrees during this period.)

We burned 205 gallons of fuel oil from 12/21/2014 through 6/1/2015.
(The house temperature, measured at floor, was an average of 64 degrees during this period.)

We burned 2.4 tons, or 120 bags of pellets from 12/21/2014 through 6/1/2014.  This calculates to 1.6 lbs / hr, or 28 lbs / day.  This exactly matches our stove settings with use of approx. 17 hours per day.

Using degree day calculations to determine K-Factor, I estimate we saved burning an additional  392  gallons of fuel oil with wood pellets vs. fuel oil only.

Cost:  

We paid $7.00 per bag of pellets this season (340 / ton), and were fortunate that a local fuel station was selling premium-grade Clean Fire Pacific pellets at this price.

Our fuel oil costs, fixed by the supplier, were $2.56 per gallon.

Comparing fuel oil costs only vs. combined wood pellets & fuel oil cost, I estimate we saved $163.52 , vs. fuel oil only use.

Our electricity cost increased due to use of the pellet stove.  It is difficult to determine the (exact) cost increase, due to use of additional warm-mist humidifiers, and an overhead ceiling (paddle) fan to circulate heat from the stove during the winter months.  * An estimate of $40.00 / month seems to be in the ball-park of electricity use / month for the pellet stove. 

With electricity usage estimated at $210.00 for the time period, total costs incurred using the pellet stove from 12/21/2014 through 6/1/2015 is:  $46.48

--

Observations:  

For the cost of a night out for dinner, our home was an average of 5 degrees warmer in the main living space, due to the ability to close off non-use rooms as needed.  

Purchasing pellets by the ton will offset / negate the cost of increased electricity use for the 2015-16 season.

Cold air infiltration at floor level was apparent during the winter months: previously the forced hot air furnace would be cycling several times an hour, negating the effect.  The forced hot air furnace was cycling, on average, every 75 minutes to prevent pipe freeze in the unfinished crawl space below the first floor when using the pellet stove, maintaining the crawl space at 38 degrees farenheit.

We are installing an OAK currently, and plan on retro-fitting / installing automatic dampeners in the cold air return duct work, to open only when the furnace is cycling, before the 2015-16 heating season begins.

Compared to Sept - Dec. 2014, our health was improved using the pellet stove.  Whether this was due to the constant heat provided by the stove vs. the usual "hot/cold" cycling of the furnace w/ oil-only heat, the "calming warmth" factor of burning wood again, or the increased physical activity associated, I cannot say.   I think all of these played a role in decreasing stress, and improving our health this past winter.

Conclusion:

It's a no-brainer for us: we are fully invested in the pellet stove, my family is comfortable in operating and maintaining the stove, we will be burning pellets for the foreseeable future.

Regards,
Robert


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## Tonyray (Jun 21, 2015)

CleanFire said:


> I finished doing the numbers comparing #2 fuel oil use vs. pellets & oil this week.  Thought others may be interested in this info..
> 
> Usage:
> 
> ...


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## Tonyray (Jun 21, 2015)

Agree...
steady pellet heat 24/7 as opposed to on/baseboard heat  off/ cooldown/    rinse.lather,repeat..keeping temps in the mid 60's to save oil. forget it..
with pellets it's steady 73-74....
people complain about pellet costs and yet spend way more in a year on fancy Starbucks drinks that last maybe 30 minutes 5 days a week....


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## slls (Jun 21, 2015)

In the old days there were only stoves and fireplaces. Then central heating came out and most everyone install one , wonder why if stoves were so great.


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 21, 2015)

slls said:


> In the old days there were only stoves and fireplaces. Then central heating came out and most everyone install one , wonder why if stoves were so great.


You mean you can't understand why a person would rather turn a little dial on the wall,
as opposed to going out in the woods to cut down a bunch of trees, drag them out, 
cut them up, split them, stack them, go out in the cold to chuck them in the house, get up at 4:00am
to put more wood in the stove?

I think I can...


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## scajjr2 (Jun 21, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> Dont load directly from the bags. Either scoop the pellets out or transfer them into a bucket for easy pouring.



We put a nice dark brown plastic Rubbermaid 32 gallon barrel just off to the side of the P43. Holds 4 bags. Got a plastic feed scoop from Tractor Supply, loads them into the hopper just fine. Also helps to to reduce the fines in the stove cause they just filter to the bottom of the barrel as you empty the bags and as you scoop them out.

With what electric rates jumped to around these parts last winter spending $1200 for 4 tons of pellets to keep the house (1500 sq ft, 2 stories) at 70 vs the $3000+ the electric baseboard heat would have cost (and the house at 65), so glad we made the buy for the P43 in 2013.

Wife works for the Community Action agency in Rockingham County. She said the number of people who got blindsided by giant electric bills last winter and had to come in for heating and electrical assistance money was 3-4 times higher than in the past when it's been mainly oil users. 

Sam


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2015)

slls said:


> In the old days there were only stoves and fireplaces. Then central heating came out and most everyone install one , wonder why if stoves were so great.



Why did they all buy cars and trucks after they were invented if horses and mules were so great.


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## Ashful (Jun 21, 2015)

slls said:


> In the old days there were only stoves and fireplaces. Then central heating came out and most everyone install one , wonder why if stoves were so great.


"In the old days, things were made locally by talented men who knew their craft.  Then they started making everything in China, wonder why if Made in USA was so great."

Change isn't always forward progress.


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## Augmister (Jun 22, 2015)

At $300/ton, I'm still heating with pellets.  $100 bucks in nothing to me.  The nickle and dimers should be cutting, stacking and burning hardwood.  NOT doing that is priceless to me.


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## CleanFire (Jun 24, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Agree...
> steady pellet heat 24/7 as opposed to on/baseboard heat off/ cooldown/ rinse.lather,repeat..keeping temps in the mid 60's to save oil. forget it..
> with pellets it's steady 73-74....



I think you hit the nail on the head Tony, if I had to choose a reason for better health post-install, not having to worry about conserving oil, as an only source of heat, was a -huge- stress reliever this season.

re: Starbucks, laughing because we're the "Cumberland Farms for 99 cents" variety here, w/ two daughters in college, but it's cool: different strokes for different folks - visiting Starbucks seems like forever ago here.  

Like the start of last winter, still a "newbie", feel like a veteran though.


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## bogieb (Jun 25, 2015)

CleanFire said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head Tony, if I had to choose a reason for better health post-install, not having to worry about conserving oil, as an only source of heat, was a -huge- stress reliever this season.
> 
> re: Starbucks, laughing because we're the "Cumberland Farms for 99 cents" variety here, w/ two daughters in college, but it's cool: different strokes for different folks - visiting Starbucks seems like forever ago here.
> 
> Like the start of last winter, still a "newbie", feel like a veteran though.



Cumbie's coffee for me too - although I usually brew my own. don't remember the last time I got coffee from DD, and that was way before the last time I even stepped into a SB's (that was probably several years ago). I did however stop at a DD for a break and a cinnamon roll last weekend when I was out riding


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 25, 2015)

Starbucks opened a store in my town.
There are 7 Dunkin's here.
About one for each month Starbucks was open.....

Dan


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## Pellet-King (Jun 26, 2015)

bogieb said:


> My bill is $69.90 for the last month - energy charge of 35.80 - the rest are various fees that are raised/lower depending upon energy consumption. Here is the actual breakdown of charges per KWH:
> 
> 0.041 distribution charge
> 0.018 transmission charge
> ...


How the heck you only use 338kwh in a month?, i can use that in a week if the A/C is running


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## drz1050 (Jun 27, 2015)

Easy, no AC. I used 245kwh last month. The month before I think was 210ish.


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## bogieb (Jun 27, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> How the heck you only use 338kwh in a month?, i can use that in a week if the A/C is running



No AC, live by myself, fairly early to bed (so less use of lights) and have a small house. 338k is probably about the least I use - didn't use any power tools or fans for air flow this month. Also have town water, so no pump (last place had a pump so the electric use was a bit higher).

On another note, power company just got permission to raise rates for recovery costs . . .


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## CleanFire (Jun 27, 2015)

bogieb said:


> I did however stop at a DD for a break and a cinnamon roll last weekend when I was out riding



Nice..  So now I'm craving a DD cinnamon roll, Thanks a lot for that, bogieb. 

Hope your summer is going well, w/ cool rides, and safe travels!


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## smwilliamson (Jun 27, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Why did they all buy cars and trucks after they were invented if horses and mules were so great.


I suppose because when your frustrated you can kick and yell at a ford and won't run away


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## bogieb (Jun 28, 2015)

CleanFire said:


> Nice..  So now I'm craving a DD cinnamon roll, Thanks a lot for that, bogieb.
> 
> Hope your summer is going well, w/ cool rides, and safe travels!



Just got back from a quick trip to see a friend near Utica, NY. Left about 9:30 AM yesterday morning, and got back at 3 PM today. Put on a total of 453 miles (only 60 miles was highway - and that was coming home).

AND, to keep this pellet stove related - I have the Harman going downstairs and just pulled out some sweet potatoes that I cooked in it. It is drying my riding gear and warming up the basement (some leakage to main floor - has gotten up to 69 in my office - colder in bedroom). Actually, will probably start up the main floor stove tonight.


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## biomass burner (Jun 30, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> With the price of wood pellets up from $200 to over $280 a ton and the price of fuel oil down to $2.39 a gallon, I am thinking of boycotting buying Wood Pellets this year.
> 
> The price for wood pellets in Germany is $290/ton for American made wood pellets. Something is not right.  Its not right to sell America's wood pellets to Europe at some ridiculous low price before shipment and then turn around and charge Americans high prices.  This is not right.
> 
> Time for me to rethink wood pellets as a heat source.


yeah i agree i have propane price caped at 1.79 a gal and im looking at corn to burn with the wood pellets being so high


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## NorthCountryNY (Feb 11, 2016)

First time poster here, although I have read on this forum for some time. After reading this thread I feel pretty fortunate to live where I do. We have the big dam in the neighborhood. After seeing what some are paying for electric, I checked my bill. After all taxes and surcharges, my December bill came to $.059 per kWh. I used 2151 kWh and the bill came to $127.44. It's foolish to not take advantage of some form of electric heat in this area.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 11, 2016)

I haven't been on here all year.  No need to in as much as the appliance has been dormant and cold since last spring and will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

My propane supplier started at 89 cents a gallon delivered, I filled all 3 500 gallon bottles and valved off 2.  Been running on one.  I'm on just my second fill now and the delivered price was 98 cents, still way below the break cost of pellets, Propane would have to be at $1.45 / gallon to break with pellets in our local market.  Because I can run mixed biomass (corn or pellets or a combination of both), I priced feed corn delivered in my bulk tanks at it too was above the break price.....

From what I read in the Biofuel Industry magazine, pellet producers are making a killing offshoring processed wood pellets anyway and domestic, for home use is a very small percentage of total output with most processors geared for larger industrial pellet production anyway.

I had 20 bags left from last year, I gave them to my neighbor who's central furnace died and she's running pellets (at a loss I might add).  Suggested to he to ger her furnace repaired and get back on propane.

The caverns in Detroit and Sarnia are full of propane and I don't see the pice exceeding the threshold for a while.

My wife (and I) are spoiled by just setting the t'stat and waking up to a warm house.  I run a setback t'stat and reduce the home temperature to 55  night, 68 during the day and I run propane in the shop as well but thats PEX in floor heat.

Really, not a cold winter and really, in essence, much cheaper to run propane than a solid fuel.  Less messy too.

I like a cozy fire but I also like the extra cash in my pocket for other things like firearms....

You folks have a great winter and I'll stay on propane and probably will next year as well.  I don't see the PPG getting anywhere near $1.45 / gallon for a long while....  and who knows where processed pellets will go, probably up like everything else.....


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## Bioburner (Feb 11, 2016)

I have burned a fair amount more propain this season too as the refill is currently 1.03 so the corn at $120 a ton is still lower so the Bixby is shouldering the brunt of the work and the propane stove topping off the home most of the time but the last week has been well below normal so firing the Elena for a bit in the early AM and again around supper. Waiting for a new water thermostat for the Harman that went south of course as the temps fell. Good time to replace a pot switch that was failing as well. Seems I had a rash of appliances going bad as the dishwasher water valve seized up too. Got rid of the Jeep.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 11, 2016)

I went to Montana in the early winter for a nice guided hunt and brought back a freezer full of mule deer then got smacked by a 10 point buck driving down the road that trashed the SUV which I'm still driving but haven't had to use 4wd at all, no snow to amount to anything here.  I dislike car payments.  Probably find a used buggy in the spring.

The buck walked away, the SUV is ugly.  I was in his path, must have had a doe on his mind....  broadsided me.

Corn isn't that cheap here.  around $1.60 / bu. delivered with a 500 bushel minimum.  I have the nags and the steers on straight hay, not that cold.  Gonna be a buggy spring I suspect.  Lots of pesticides.  Looking at another new tractor but I'm not liking the emissions crap at all.

Both GSI's are empty.

Been cutting lots of wood.  I'm taking down 4 large trees, 3 oaks and one ash.  All the wood is going to my friend who sells it to campers in the summer.  Cutting it into 17" long knots and chipping everything under 3".  he gets the wood and I get a deep discount on bailer twine and net wrap (he's the manager of the dealer where I buy my implements at).  All good for me.  he makes money, I save money.  net is pretty expensive now.  51" over the edge net is around 300 bucks a roll and square bailer poly is around 25 bucks a box.

I developed a distinct dislike for burning / heating with saw logs years ago.  Just too much fiddling around.  I heated my home in Ohio with wood, had a huge woodlot out back and took downed wood only.  Skidding logs, cutting, splitting and roasting and then cleaning ashes isn't my thing at all.

I cleaned the appliance out last spring, cleaned the vent and there it sits.  It's available if and when the price of propane equals or exceeds biomass but not before.  No point in throwing money out the window just to enjoy a fire in the stove.

This old barn is well insulated (foamed) and has good windows so heat loss is minimal anyway.  One thing I've noticed is I'm using much less water in the humidifer than when I run the appliance.... about half as much.

Coal is catching on here.  There are now 2 Blashalk dealers close by and a couple places offering freestanding auto stokers....  Something to consider.  With Obama destroying the bituminous coal industry, Anthracite mines are leaning toward domestic heating.  Reading and Blashalk are moving farther west to take advantage of the markets.

I really like the Reading freestanding stoker and the Hitzer too and you can direct vent both without a masonry chimney.  The BTU output per unit of Anthricite is much higher than any biomass product.


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## Bioburner (Feb 11, 2016)

Courts just struck down a big portion of big O's EPA mandates.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 11, 2016)

From what I read in the paper, it's only temporary.  He's got a pen and a phone afterall.  I'm never disapointed by his lack of doing what is right.....


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## Bioburner (Feb 11, 2016)

The FAA put up a bunch of rules on unmanned aircraft without proper public comment period before Xmas and makes it near impossible to use them for any commercial use without a pilots license. Impacts a lot of the hobbyists and photographers. I don't know how many lame duck items are going to be chucked at the regular people before fall. Really glad had everything out of the markets.
South America is getting good rains to develop the crops so corn looking to be held to low price unless La Nina dries out the corn belt severely. We are pretty dry here with almost no reserve water in the soil.


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## Edsson (Feb 11, 2016)

I burned 5-6 cords of wood for 28 years and had to replace the stove, so I went to a pellet stove. Everything is more expensive when you change things up. I eliminated plowing snow to get to the wood pile, hauling wood in 2-3 times a week, and tending to the stove 6-8 times a day. I am paying for the convenience with a little higher price for the fuel I burn, but I personally think it was worth it.


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## slls (Feb 11, 2016)

Local pellet mills are talking about shutting down, no business. Oil down again, looks like $20 barrel coming.


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## Mpodesta (Feb 11, 2016)

Yeah.......this month I filled up on oil, 1.40$gal. Cheapest I could find pellets was 249$.

I do like my stove heat abit more tho.


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## FirepotPete (Feb 11, 2016)

I've never heard of Boycott Wood Pellets, must be a local/regional brand.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 11, 2016)

Bioburner said:


> The FAA put up a bunch of rules on unmanned aircraft without proper public comment period before Xmas and makes it near impossible to use them for any commercial use without a pilots license. Impacts a lot of the hobbyists and photographers. I don't know how many lame duck items are going to be chucked at the regular people before fall. Really glad had everything out of the markets.
> South America is getting good rains to develop the crops so corn looking to be held to low price unless La Nina dries out the corn belt severely. We are pretty dry here with almost no reserve water in the soil.


 

I almost bought one for suveying crop land and scouting deer and bear on my property up north and I read about the licensng and decided not to get one.  It would have made life easier but I don't need nor want the licensing hassle.  Bad enpugh with all the licensing regulations concerning pesticides and herbicides.

They are prediciting a drought here this year as well.  Ws really haven't had much snowfall at all.  I guess it will be another year of fired up corn and 2 hay cuts.  Glad my stock count is down...less mouths to feed.


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## SidecarFlip (Feb 11, 2016)

slls said:


> Local pellet mills are talking about shutting down, no business. Oil down again, looks like $20 barrel coming.


 

Offshoring pellets is BIG business today with the EU being a big consumer, but that excludes local, landlocked mills that don't have access to water based terminals to load ships.  Great Britan is going almost all biomass and winf solar for their power needs, which I think is a mistake but I've been wrong before.


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## slls (Feb 12, 2016)

SidecarFlip said:


> Offshoring pellets is BIG business today with the EU being a big consumer, but that excludes local, landlocked mills that don't have access to water based terminals to load ships.  Great Britan is going almost all biomass and winf solar for their power needs, which I think is a mistake but I've been wrong before.



My area is not land locked, several ocean ports. What surprises me is prices are not dropping much.


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