# My first project saw! (no pics yet) -- a free 034 AV



## Jon1270 (Jul 1, 2013)

Craigslist finally smiled on me today. I've been thinking it would be nice to have a decent saw a little bigger than my Husky 350, and that I'd be happy to have a motorized project.  Today I was perusing Cleveland's chainsaw listings (because, y'know, there aren't enough old saws around western PA), and found a new ad for a free 034AV with a "burned up" motor.  Amazingly I was the first to reply, and the owner was willing to hold the saw until I'm in the area 3 weeks from now. 

I'm guessing a "burned up motor" will require a new piston at the very least, but who knows what else might be wrong.  I'd appreciate any 034-specific resources anyone might have.


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## MasterMech (Jul 1, 2013)

034 with a bad top-end is going to become an 036 when you're done.  Parts should interchange readily.  Just buy the larger 036 top-end instead of the stock 034 stuff. 

Love my 034, (haven't used it much since the 460's have been around.  wait ... )  and it makes a good 20" saw.  At the very least, it will shred bigger trunks much quicker than the 350.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 1, 2013)

Thanks, MM.  Are the piston & cylinder the only differences between the 034 and 036?

It will be interesting to see how badly damaged it is.  I'll be tempted to just replace the piston if the cylinder is salvageable.


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## ScotO (Jul 1, 2013)

Before you go ripping and tearing it apart, make sure the compression is bad......it may just possibly be something simple and the original owner of the saw has no idea how to fix it. But if it turns out that the motor is trashed, I agree with MM....put the bigger jug/piston in that puppy while its apart.....
AND, while you already have it torn down, might as well put new crank seals in it. Do yourself a favor, get a full gasket kit, carburetor kit, P/C kit, and maybe even crank bearings......check them for slop. If the motor is 'burned up' as the poster said it was, that's what I'd do. for around 150 bucks you'll basically have a new saw. Oh and don't forget to port the muffler...perhaps the easiest thing of all to do.  If you need help with that, send it to me and I'll port it for you.....trust me, you'll love my ported mufflers..


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## MasterMech (Jul 1, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Thanks, MM. Are the piston & cylinder the only differences between the 034 and 036?
> 
> It will be interesting to see how badly damaged it is. I'll be tempted to just replace the piston if the cylinder is salvageable.


 
There is a bit of power left on the table if you stick with the 034 top-end.  I'd be looking for an excuse to upgrade.   Lots of aftermarket options that make it very affordable.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 1, 2013)

Well, none of this sounds too scary.  I haven't done serious carburetor / engine work since I got rid of my last 1970's motorcycle.  This only has one fourth as many cylinders / carburetors, so how hard can it be?


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## ScotO (Jul 1, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Well, none of this sounds too scary. I haven't done serious carburetor / engine work since I got rid of my last 1970's motorcycle. This only has one fourth as many cylinders / carburetors, so how hard can it be?


It's a piece of cake.....and if you need help, we'll walk you through it.  The important thing is to have a clean workbench when you start out, take it apart and carefully inventory the parts/screws......and clean everything good before you put it back together.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 1, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> It's a piece of cake.....and if you need help, we'll walk you through it.


 
Thanks.  Looking forward to picking the communal brain.


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## DexterDay (Jul 7, 2013)

Your the gut that got the FREE 034AV? 

Me and 3 guys fromAS have been PM'ing each other wondering which one of us got it??

I was the 2nd guy. That gentleman held true and said, he was giving it to the 1st individual.  Congrats bro. 

Well worth the drive. If you want, PM me and there is a sponsor on AS that has A Great Aftermarket top end kit (if needed)? It's a very nice kit and well priced. 

But 1st, pull the muffler and check the top end. Also, check the coil. Sometimes the 2 screws make loosen, and tht will cause the coil to stick to the flywheel.  Which makes it seem like it is seized up.


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## DexterDay (Jul 7, 2013)

The 034 Super was a Standard 036. So the cylinders swap out fine. 

Do yourself a favor and get the 036 top end, if it needs rebuilt. 

I will tell you one thing. The guy holds true to his word. I offered $30 on my way home....  Said it was taken


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## Jon1270 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks, Dexter.  I was really surprised when he said he'd hold it for me.  I will be going to Cleveland anyhow in a couple of weeks, and that's when I'll pick it up. He said it's been sitting in his garage for a few years, and won't hurt anything if it sits there a bit longer.  I'll have to thank him for not taking your money.  I will report back here with some pics, probably at the very end of July or the first few days of August.

I'm not yet a member at AS, but I have regularly been consulting old posts there and at ForestryForum to help me get familiar with various saw models. I at least don't feel completely bewildered anymore.

In other news, I stumbled on a very expensive high-end blender at an estate sale two days ago for next to nothing, and had it photographed and up on eBay a few hours later.  The profit from that should be enough to fund some frivolous saw parts.


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## Freeheat (Jul 8, 2013)

FOR FREE man this just ain't right. I keep missing stuff


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## Jon1270 (Jul 8, 2013)

Freeheat said:


> FOR FREE man this just ain't right. I keep missing stuff


 
Don't worry, everybody misses the best deals most of the time. There aren't enough to go around.

Part of it is that having a smartphone with an app set up to notify you of new ads is a huge advantage, and the phones are so common now that it really hurts your chances if you don't have one. Your competition has a little computer in his pocket that chimes within minutes after a new ad goes up. If your pocket doesn't chime, you probably don't get there first. Of course you can blow a lot of money on the phone and data plan too, but there are more cheap secondhand smartphones on the market than there are chainsaws. Discount/prepaid wireless companies are starting to service smartphones, so even the data can be cheap if you don't use too much of it.

That said, my iPhone doesn't get the credit for this 034 because I don't have it set up to check ads from Cleveland. I grew up in the Cleveland area and lived there until fairly recently,and my parents are still there. I browse the ads there occasionally out of habit, and I got lucky.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 8, 2013)

Hey, look at this one in Cleveland: http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tls/3921034544.html


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## mikefrommaine (Jul 8, 2013)

I have a cl app running searches for me on my Ipad.  But all of my great deals have come the old fashioned way -- sitting down and looking at CL.  The search apps only search every 15 minutes or so and then alert you.  That's a long time on CL for really good deals.  When I got my 066 the ad was up for less then 30 seconds.  I had just done a manual search for 'chainsaw' then 'Stihl' and it wasn't there.  Out of habit I clicked on tools and it was on the top of the list.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 8, 2013)

I think the 034 was up for close to 45 minutes before I saw it, but there was something about the ad that made it a little harder to find.  Maybe it didn't contain the word "chainsaw" or "saw,' or something along those lines -- I don't remember exactly what it was.  The Craigslist search feature is really rudimentary in comparison to Google and other more up-to-date sites.  If you search for "chainsaw" then you only get ads with exactly that word.  "Chain saw" won't show up, and neither will "chainsaws." Concocting a good set of search terms is part of the fun.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 24, 2013)

I picked up the saw this morning, along with its case, an old bar, several chains and an extra spark plug. Aside from being seized (and it is very seized), the saw looks like its in great condition. The original protective plastic film is still hanging on to the badge on top!  

I had to leave the saw behind in Ohio, along with my dog, while my wife and I drive to Minnesota for a friend's wedding. It will be a week before I have it back home where I can start fiddling with it. Meanwhile, I am wondering why it siezed; it looks so well cared-for.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 24, 2013)

Nice saw may get away with just a piston and jug?


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## Jon1270 (Jul 24, 2013)

That would be nice, but I suspect it will be at least a bit more complicated than that. I don't have reason to think the guy who gave it to me ran straight gas in it, so my inexpert guess is that there might be an air leak somewhere.


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## DexterDay (Jul 24, 2013)

Check carb boot, impulse line, fuel line, and if it has not been ran in awhile. Then the seals. You need the ones so you dont have to split the case. There are 2 different sets. 

Where is the seizure? Exhaust side, below the port?


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## Jon1270 (Jul 24, 2013)

No idea where the siezure is yet. I'll post back next week when I can examine it more closely, with a toolbox at hand.


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## DexterDay (Jul 24, 2013)

If your coming off of The Turnpike (80) or Rt 20 or 480? I am fairly close... 

 If'n you wanna swing in? LOL. I know a guy who would take that 034 off yer hands  lol


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## MasterMech (Jul 25, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Meanwhile, I am wondering why it siezed; it looks so well cared-for.​


 
Air leak is likely, even crank seals are suspect on a saw that old.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 25, 2013)

I'd swing by to drop it off, Dexter, except that.... uh, er... Look over there, a bird!


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## clemsonfor (Jul 25, 2013)

OK what does the "AV" stand for? 

And another question. You se 046 or 460 "magnums" and 044 "magnums" and so on what does the magnum mean? Does every saw over a certain size say it?  I personally cant say i have seen an 044 with out magnum written on it?


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## maple1 (Jul 25, 2013)

I always though AV was Anti-Vibe, and Magnum was magnesium cases.

But I don't know if that's right or not...


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## DexterDay (Jul 25, 2013)

There were older saws that were Magnums. The 038 Mag was one.

But yeah, The 044/440 up to the 088/880 are all Magnums. Its been told that the sticker ads 10% more torque 

 As for the AV. A lot of older saws had AV on them. That's when Stihl was starting to go from there old style saws, to the newer gen. AV stands for Anti Vibe. The 031AV, 024AV, 028AV, 034AV, etc.. Now, with the even newer gen saws, the AV has disappeared, as all saws (Stihl) have an AV system of one type or the other. Some are still better than others and I would prefer all my saws to ride on springs. But the 441, and 361/362 are the only bigger saws to do so currently.


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## DexterDay (Jul 25, 2013)

maple1 said:


> I always though AV was Anti-Vibe, and Magnum was magnesium cases.
> 
> But I don't know if that's right or not...



Lots of other saws use Magnesium cases, but that may be right? All Pro saws use mag cases, so the 260/261, 362, etc should have it too. 

I just know 1 thing..... The sticker makes my 460 go faster


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## MasterMech (Jul 25, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> OK what does the "AV" stand for?
> 
> And another question. You se 046 or 460 "magnums" and 044 "magnums" and so on what does the magnum mean? Does every saw over a certain size say it? I personally cant say i have seen an 044 with out magnum written on it?


The Magnum designation was meaningful on a handful of saws. It was the biggest, the baddest version of that model. 038, and the 056 are two that come to mind. The 056 Magnum II is a prized collector item and a 91cc heavyweight powerhouse. As far as the newer 044/440 type saws go, it's just a sticker.

Plenty of non-Magnum saws that have magnesium cases. Quite a lot of them actually.


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## smokinj (Jul 25, 2013)

Av anti vibe. Mag well if it don't say it you don't have it....


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

So I'm back from vacation and had a few minutes to play with my free saw. I pulled the cover off the carb/air cleaner area, and was surprised to find that I could spin the flywheel backwards about a quarter turn with my fingertips. It moved quite freely within a 90-degree or so range. So then I pulled the cylinder cover off and removed the spark plug. No obvious damage there -- piston moves up and down around the top of its cycle as the flywheel is rotated, but comes to a sudden stop at either end. Top of piston looks fine, and the plug seems a bit sooty, which I would not expect if it had been running lean and seized.

I figured the next step is to pull the muffler so that I might get a better look inside the cylinder and at the exhaust side of the piston. The 20" bar with its full-comp chisel chain is starting to get in the way, though, so I remove the bar nuts and the side cover and lay the sharp, pointy bits off to the side. Intending to turn my attention back to the muffler, I flip the saw upright and hear a little clunk, of something like a nut or screw hitting the carrying case on which I am working. I lift the saw out of the way, and quickly find a small hard plastic part a bit over an inch long -- apparently a chain guide of some sort. It's got a keyhole-shaped projection on the back, so it quickly becomes obvious where it came from. Hardly daring to hope, I give the starter rope a tug and it draws easily, a satisfying FwopFwopFwopFwopFwop noise coming from the still-open spark plug hole.

So, the saw isn't seized at all; it was just jammed by its own chain guide. It's not running yet (apparently been sitting with gas in it for a couple of years) but I don't think this is going to be a big project. With the plug back in I can just lift the saw by the starter rope, so compression seems decent. I'm almost disappointed. _Almost_.


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## maple1 (Jul 31, 2013)

Wonder where that came from? Did it fall out the recoil side? If so, that would certainly jam the flywheel up. Then ya gotta wonder how it got in there.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Wonder where that came from?


 
You can see the keyhole-shaped hole it attaches to in the pic above, just at the tip of my middle finger, above the front bar stud. Seems like a friction fit that just got loose.


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## maple1 (Jul 31, 2013)

I was thinking where did it fall out of the saw from.

Unless it fell out of the recoil housing, I'm not sure how it could stop the engine from turning over - then I'd wonder how it got inside the recoil housing. Stranger things have happened though.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

Oh, I see what you're asking.  I was wondering the same thing, but unfortunately I didn't see where it came from so I can't answer this conclusively.  There is plenty of room under the front cover for the loose guide to find its way over into the recoil, though.


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## maple1 (Jul 31, 2013)

Hope it runs for you now - that would be a nice surprise.

I had almost the same thing happen here with a gas drill. Found a stray screw up against the flywheel - it came from the recoil housing. So ya never know.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

I've made myself tired trying to start the saw, and it's not firing at all.  I switched to fresh gas and the spark looks great, so this is looking like a fuel delivery problem.  Carb kit, I'm guessing.  The fuel line looks good.  Any thoughts from those who've done this before?  The only carbs I've ever overhauled were on old Japanese motorcycles.


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## DexterDay (Jul 31, 2013)

Id put new fuel line, fuel filter, and impulse line. I have had some Nasty saws and not one has needed a kit. Likely the impulse line is cracked and no fuel gets delivered. Or crack in fuel line..

Sounds like it aint gonna cost you much. Well worthy of a Giant You Suck!!  

Congrats. I may have a fuel line for it and possibly the impulse. Have to look when I get home. I have about 30 fuel filters.  Give you a really good deal on it.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks, Dexter.  I'm going out but I'll check back later.  There are a few other parts I'm going to have to chase down too: an oil cap (original is damaged and leaking), a scrench with a Torx end, a plastic latch for the case (missing one) and a 20" scabbard.  Oh, and one of the Torx muffler bolts has been replaced with a standard hex bolt, so it would be nice to get that back to original.  Otherwise it looks awfully good.


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## maple1 (Jul 31, 2013)

I think I would do a leak-down test on it.


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## clemsonfor (Jul 31, 2013)

Yea all new fuel lines. And yea that is a plastic guide that keeps chain running true. Its that type plastic that is real slick.  Its prokly fine. The Carb kits can be had on eBay for less than $10. There easy. I think like 2 rubber diaphragms is all.


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

Well dang, I was completely wrong.  Couldn't find any cracks in the fuel or impulse lines. I disassembled the carb and found it very clean inside. Put it back together and pulled the rope several times with the air filter off, and gas started dribbling out the back of the carb, ergo it's probably not a fuel delivery problem. So, I pulled the muffler off and found the exhaust side of the piston badly scored, the rings almost indistinguishable from their grooves.  It'll be a new piston and rings at least; maybe the cylinder too.  I don't have a long T27 wrench to pull the cylinder and get a better look, so I'll start by ordering one.

FWIW, the old gas I drained out of it was suspiciously colorless.  I'm wondering whether the previous owner didn't grab the wrong gas can.


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## DexterDay (Jul 31, 2013)

If your gonna go aftermarket and want a Good kit thats priced right? PM me. There is good aftermarket and Chi com aftermarket garbage. .

Also, I would do a pressure or vacuum test after rebuild.  Because if the scoring is exhaust side and below the port, then an air leak is likely. Seals will come with the aftermarket kit too..


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## Jon1270 (Jul 31, 2013)

Will do, Dexter.  Fortunately I have a pressure tester and some associated manifolds.


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## MasterMech (Aug 1, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Also, I would do a pressure or vacuum test after rebuild.​


 
Do it before as well. Unless you are going to replace everything, and even if you are, knowing what the problem is before you tear it down is valuable knowledge when ironing out the inevitable kinks after you get it running again.

Wow, cylinder kits for these saws are quite inexpensive! Nikasil plated, Hyway kit for under $70, not bad.  That's also a 48mm kit that would upgrade that 034 to 036 specs.  I've used a couple kits from this seller now (that's how I know they are Hyway brand kits) and have been happy with both of them.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 3, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I would do a pressure or vacuum test after rebuild.


 


MasterMech said:


> Do it before as well


 
My torx wrench arrived today, so it was time to dig deeper into my saw's problems.  I busted out my recently acquired tool kit, sealed off the exhaust, replaced the carburetor with the appropriate manifold, and did my first-ever pressure test.  The saw held no air whatsoever.  I could hear air escaping every time I squeezed the bulb, so it didn't take long to figure out that the clutch-side crank seal was leaking like a sieve.  After pulling the clutch and getting the oil pump gear out of the way, I sprayed the seal with oil and used the pressure-test bulb to blow bubbles. 

I went ahead and pulled the cylinder.  The piston is evenly scored from top to bottom. all the way around, and the top ring is broken.  The cylinder doesn't look so hot either, so it'll be a complete top end replacement.  Time to go shopping...

How do you gauge the acceptable amount of play at the connecting rod / crankshaft?  There's a bit of slop there, and since this is my first time taking one of these apart, I have no idea whether it's a problem.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Wow, cylinder kits for these saws are quite inexpensive! Nikasil plated, Hyway kit for under $70, not bad.


 
Are you sure that's a Hyway kit?  I don't see the brand mentioned anywhere.


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## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Are you sure that's a Hyway kit?  I don't see the brand mentioned anywhere.


That seller is particularly responsive if you call/email him questions.  Both kits that I have ordered from him were Hyways.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 3, 2013)

Thanks, I'll drop him a note and see what he says.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 3, 2013)

Also, how much sense would it make to split the case and replace all the gaskets and seals, since I've already got the thing halfway apart?  Is replacing just the crankshaft seals likely to be sufficient?


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## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2013)

If you have the tools to split the case then it's an easy step to take.  If you are relying on DIY methods to get the case halves apart, probably best to leave it alone unless you know there is a problem.

If you tear the saw downs to just the bottom end, you local dealer would prob only charge you a minimal fee to crack it open.  You should be able to get it closed up again without too much trouble. Especially if you toss the rotating assembly in the freezer and heat the case halves to 200 before assembling everything.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 4, 2013)

Hm, sounds like it's more complicated than I imagined. I have some specialized tools that I bought from an old small engine guy who was retiring, but I don't know whether i have the right tools.  I guess I have some reading to do.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 4, 2013)

...Heh, having read through (most of) that section in the manual, I can see why you wouldn't want to split the case if you can help it.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 4, 2013)

Read master mech rebuild of his 460.  There is a clutch and flywheel puller and something else I think that are soecielized to split it.

I too was not thinking g it was that complicated.


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## DexterDay (Aug 4, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> ...Heh, having read through (most of) that section in the manual, I can see why you wouldn't want to split the case if you can help it.



They make seals for both applications.  Whether you split the case or not.

The Hy Way kits come with the externally installed seals. If you can help it, I wouldn't split it. Bearings are likely fine. That's a very nice looking saw that has lower hrs on it. Many of 036-034 saws had a LOT of hours put on them before bearings are needed. 

Replace the seals, piston, ring, jug, fuel line, fuel filter, and impulse. Be done and run it!!


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## MasterMech (Aug 4, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> They make seals for both applications.  Whether you split the case or not.



The seals should be the same for the 034 wether or not you split it.  I think you're thinking of the MS290/310/390 that has two sets of seals available for it like you describe.


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## DexterDay (Aug 4, 2013)

I thought they all had 2 sets available?

Again, this isnt my Known fact. But guys on AS are much more knowledgeable than I and have said the same thing. But it wasnt just for homeowners saws? I thought. 

Been wrong before. Gonna be wrong again. Foot goes into mouth.  Its all good


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## Jon1270 (Aug 4, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Replace the seals, piston, ring, jug, fuel line, fuel filter, and impulse. Be done and run it!!


 
This sounds like a plan.  Thanks for all the advice.


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## MasterMech (Aug 4, 2013)

All split case saws that I know of have the seals installed from the outside, regardless of whether the crank/cylinder is in place or not.

Clamshell type saws have the seals sandwiched in-between the cylinder and the lower cover.  They can be fit in tighter that way.  However, installing them without removing the cylinder is near impossible, hence the slightly undersized "external" seals.


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## DexterDay (Aug 4, 2013)

^^ Foot inserted into mouth ^^  

Told you. Aint gonna be the last  

Thats why we got fellers like you


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

The supplier Dexter recommended gave me a great deal on a HyWay kit, with the gaskets and seals, wrist pin bearing, Caber rings... whole 9 yards.  While I wait for that to arrive, I'm curious how this saw's mechanical disaster could've been prevented.  What recognizable symptoms result from a developing air leak?  I've read enough about carb tuning to know that the motor "four-strokes a bit" when properly adjusted, and "screams" if it's set too lean, but I haven't listened closely to enough saws to be confident I'd know those sounds if I heard them.  Are there other warning signs, or is preventative maintenance the key?


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

Ugh, I think this saw's problems may be bigger than I thought.  That, or I'm not understanding what I'm looking at.

I decided to give my seal-puller a try, and remove the clutch-side crankshaft seal that seemed to be leaking so badly.  I unscrewed the oil pump to get it out of the way, and soon had the seal removed very easily.  If I understand the parts right, the seal is just a thin sheet metal part that's press-fit inside the bearing's outer race, with a rubber inner ring that seals against the crankshaft.  That's correct, isn't it?

Anyhow, the problem is that (what I think is) the outer bearing race isn't tight in the crankcase.  It's so loose and sloppy that it (the outer race) spins a little as I rotate the crankshaft. and there's enough play that I can wiggle the end of the crankshaft back and forth a bit.  Does this sound familiar to any of you saw repair veterans?  I don't see any cracks or other damage on the outside of the crankcase, but I have a sinking feeling about this..


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## maple1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Spun bearing? That's not good.

Sounds like it would need a new crankcase half - maybe better to do both sides.

I had a spun bearing on an electric motor once - the motor repair shop sent it out to a machine shop to have the case machined & shimmed. Maybe we got lucky but it's still going - not something I would do on a power saw though.


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## DexterDay (Aug 5, 2013)

Might not be good  

Maybe the chap who had the saw, knew more than he led on? Free always comes with a price. 

You could split the cases and measure the I.D. where the bearing sits and call some bearing Manufacturers.  Tell them the I.D. of the bearing, O.D size (after measurement), and width? 

I replaced the front wheel bearings in my Quad. Called Honda and got the OEM prices. Them called a bearing place by me and they had an exact match for pretty cheap (really cheap!) 

Hard telling until you look at it. If where the race sits is scoured and chewed up? You may need a case


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Maybe the chap who had the saw, knew more than he led on?


 
I don't think so.  He said he asked his repair shop how much it would cost to look into it, and they told him $50, "and then you get into real money."  AFAIK, he never even had it diagnosed.



DexterDay said:


> Hard telling until you look at it. If where the race sits is scoured and chewed up? You may need a case


 
That's pretty much what I figured. Given that splitting the case seems to require some rather expensive tools, I'm doubting that that's the smartest thing to do.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

Further thought... splitting the case may actually be easy (or easier, anyhow) with the spun bearing. The bearing is just pressed into the case, right? No internal clips or anything? The case may still be toast, but perhaps it's worth looking into further.


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## DexterDay (Aug 5, 2013)

Can the "Kit" be canceled? Or has it shipped? 

I would wanna investigate before I had a stockpile of parts.....


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Can the "Kit" be canceled? Or has it shipped?


 
I don't know for sure.  Emailed him right away (2 hours ago) to ask him to hold off, and haven't heard back.


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## DexterDay (Aug 5, 2013)

With that said. If you wanna get rid of it? I know a guy who is looking for several 034 parts. He has a good case and top end. He just needs everything else (coil, recoil cover, plastic, etc). I sold a guy an 034 about a month ago (fixer upper) and he is in need of some parts. Prob give a decent penny for it?

PM if you want his info or me to talk to him.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks, Dexter. 

In the meanwhile, I had fun watching this guy's confidence-inspiring explanation of case-splitting and reassembly:


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## DexterDay (Aug 5, 2013)

For used OEM cases... This is pretty cheap. 

Also. Based on the paint wear on the front of saw (by buckin spike) and on the bottom. It wasn't a heavily used saw. I have had 6 total 036's now. And paint wear is a BIG Indicator on use. Someone took good care of that saw (until it detonated). 

Search "Stihl 036 cases" and there is one for about $130 (IIRC?) That has fewer usable parts on it. $50 aint a bad price. Assuming the bottom end is good?


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## MasterMech (Aug 5, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> What recognizable symptoms result from a developing air leak?


 
Hard to start, runs good at WOT but won't idle consistently, delayed spin down after throttle release, constantly "chasing" carburetor adjustments....



Jon1270 said:


> Given that splitting the case seems to require some rather expensive tools, I'm doubting that that's the smartest thing to do.


 
Check with a local dealer, since the saw is torn down, he should be able to split the case for a minimum bench fee or 1/2 hour of labor, regardless, it should be pretty inexpensive to have it done.  I'd do it for you for NC but shipping the saw both ways would cost the same or more.


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## MasterMech (Aug 5, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Thanks, Dexter.
> 
> In the meanwhile, I had fun watching this guy's confidence-inspiring explanation of case-splitting and reassembly:



I've seen that guy before too.  He likes to turn press-fit parts into "slip-fit" parts and it's a wonder anything he works on will last.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 6, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> I've seen that guy before too. He likes to turn press-fit parts into "slip-fit" parts and it's a wonder anything he works on will last.


 
He does that with the crankshaft in these videos, so that it requires less force to fit the bearing.  I was surprised to see that, but it's not obvious to me why it would hurt anything.


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## Jags (Aug 6, 2013)

Just throwing an old farmer method out for tightening up a bearing surface:

Center punch - lightly tapped all the way around the surface.  Where the punch makes a mark, it raises the surface area around it.  Start off light and if it doesn't do the trick, get more aggressive.  What the heck, you got junk as it stands.  Other than some bench time, you got nothing to loose.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 6, 2013)

Jags said:


> Just throwing an old farmer method out for tightening up a bearing surface:


 
Saw that mentioned in an AS thread about a spun bearing.  One hitch that comes to mind is that I'd still have to stop the air leak around the bearing. JB weld?



Jags said:


> Other than some bench time, you got nothing to loose.


 
I don't mind the bench time; it's the $100 top-end kit that I'd rather not waste.


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## Jags (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Saw that mentioned in an AS thread about a spun bearing. One hitch that comes to mind is that I'd still have to stop the air leak around the bearing. JB weld?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mind the bench time; it's the $100 top-end kit that I'd rather not waste.


 
The leak was probably from the rubber on the seal, not the back side (and side) surface of the bearing. Remember, you will still be driving the side of the bearing into the case.

Other than a leak that leans out the saw, the top end shouldn't be harmed. And I assume that you would do another leak down test before you tried to fire it up??

Just throwing it out there. I am aware that this is not kosher - and if I was doing a rebuild for a customer, it would not pass the giggle test, but for a personal saw...that was free...what the heck.

_*Full disclosure - I am NOT a saw rebuilder.*_ Just played with engines my whole life and as a kid with only one nickle to rub, had to find ways to make things work. If MM or Dex said "don't do this" - I would heed their warning.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 6, 2013)

Unfortunately it is sloppy enough that it leaks around the outside of the bearing, not just through the seal.  When I wiggle the shaft, the entire bearing moves with it.

I'm sure I could get it running with some combination of improvisations, but given the constant stress of chain tension I doubt it would last long. 

The new top-end kit hasn't even arrived and is still returnable.  The original is toast.  Alternative to risking the top-end would be combining this saw with an eBay crankcase, which would put me about $170 in altogether.  Not a bad deal for a working 036, but not what I meant to sign up for either.


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## Jags (Aug 6, 2013)

Yeah - if it is really out of whack, then go for the case.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 6, 2013)

Or if u don't want to fool with it sell it as is to the guy who needs a 36 parts saw or put it up for auction on the bay.


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## DexterDay (Aug 6, 2013)

If tapping on the bearing tightens up the slop and stops it from spinning?  Then the seal should still stop an air leak. As long as the seal is tight, the bearing behind it wont effect its sealing property.  

Or if you wanna sell it, I can call my buddy and have him get ahold of you?


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## lukem (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Unfortunately it is sloppy enough that it leaks around the outside of the bearing, not just through the seal. When I wiggle the shaft, the entire bearing moves with it.
> 
> I'm sure I could get it running with some combination of improvisations, but given the constant stress of chain tension I doubt it would last long.
> 
> The new top-end kit hasn't even arrived and is still returnable. The original is toast. Alternative to risking the top-end would be combining this saw with an eBay crankcase, which would put me about $170 in altogether. Not a bad deal for a working 036, but not what I meant to sign up for either.


 

Either cut bait or go fishin'.  I wouldn't invest in a new top end for a saw with a questionable/improvised case.  Fix it right or part it out.  One or the other.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 6, 2013)

Okay, I finally worked up the courage to split the case and get a better look at the situation. Since the bearing was already loose from the case, it was a piece of cake to get the halves apart. My toolkit even includes an official Stihl flywheel puller.

So this is what it looks like:





The bore is really clean and smooth. I pulled the bearing off the crank, and it was immediately obvious that the bearing is shot. The balls may as well be gravel.

The bearing drops right into the bore, though not through it. There's a little ridge towards the outside of the case that seems to still have the original ID, which stops the bearing from dropping all the way through.




I don't even own an inside micrometer and my dial calipers are several miles away at the moment, but by using the unworn ridge as an indicator, I'd say with moderate confidence that the bore was ovaled by about .010", with all the wear occurring towards the bar side, tapering to nothing at the top and bottom. The saw was killed by the loss of a tiny fraction of a gram of metal.


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## salecker (Aug 6, 2013)

Hi Jon
 If you are keeping the saw i would do the center punch treatment.Locktite makes a compound that will seal and retain the bearing once it is in place.I've used it on wheel bearings on trailers,etc .
 Make it a test mule to alternative repairs.
 Thomas


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## MasterMech (Aug 6, 2013)

Green loctite around the OD of the new bearing.  That should hold it better than new.

I didn't let a busted case stop me from assembling a complete MS460 so don't let this stop you.  Saw on!


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## clemsonfor (Aug 7, 2013)

Can u tap a new bearing in with a socket? How do u reassemble?


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 7, 2013)

Heat the case freeze the bearing.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 7, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Heat the case freeze the bearing.


 
Definitely not needed in this case, at least not as it is now.  I suppose the centerpunch approach could provide some interference, but I wouldn't expect it to be enough to require the heat & freeze approach.

With Locktite, I'm guessing you'd want to assemble the case, with the crank, before the Locktite set.


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2013)

Jon1270 said:


> Definitely not needed in this case, at least not as it is now.  I suppose the centerpunch approach could provide some interference, but I wouldn't expect it to be enough to require the heat & freeze approach.
> 
> With Locktite, I'm guessing you'd want to assemble the case, with the crank, before the Locktite set.


With the loctite I would coat the bore of the case with the loctite and then drop the bearing in place.  Then feed a little around the OD of the bearing but just enough to do the job.  So long as the bearing is not floppin around all over in that bore, no hurry on assembling the case.  If its bad enough to worry about the bearing being way off center then the case likely isn't worth saving. 

If you were especially determined to save the case ( let's say it was NLA or a very rare model). You could have a welder TIG the bearing bore to build it up and then a machinist could re-cut the bore.  Finding a welder versed in welding magnesium could be tricky but certainly not impossible.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 8, 2013)

Checking with feeler gauges, there seems to be about .010" slop fore and aft, and .005" top to bottom.  That seems to be within the range that loctite seems to be able to handle, from looking at their product info sheets. The bearing orients itself nicely because there's a little unworn ledge towards the outside, since the bearing has a little shoulder to accept the oil pump and doesn't contact the bore all the way through.

But then a set of bearings and a little tube of loctite is about $50.  Next cheapest option is a used crankcase in nice condition on ebay for $80 delivered, including crank and bearings.  So from one angle the question is what's a better bet -- a used crankcase with original bearings built up as intended, or new bearings improvised with loctite?  I'd prefer to reuse the old case if it's not a totally foolish thing to try.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 8, 2013)

personally i would get the ebay case, but i have never done this before so my opinion may not matter.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 8, 2013)

Too late, I've already ordered the bearings and loctite.  The shipping lag should give me time to work on getting the crankshaft & bearing loose from the flywheel side of the case, and clean up some of the oil-soaked sawdust that's packed into every nook and cranny.


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## MasterMech (Aug 9, 2013)

You could be like me, order the case to finish off the saw and then end up building a second saw from the "ruined" case. . That's exactly how I wound up with two MS460s!


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