# Power company punishes me for conservation



## Highbeam (Jul 23, 2013)

Funny thing happened this last billing period. In May I called to gripe about my 1000+ kwh power bill that occurs every month in my 1700SF home with no heating. I was asking for advice and about programs. Well, the next day I had to reset my clocks since the power had blinked out. I then noticed that I got a brand new digital power meter on the house. Cool, easy to read and I marked the date.

Over the next few days I replaced an old fridge with an estar model, swapped out lights to LED, shut off my energy hog hot tub, and installed a whole house power monitor that logs consumption and instant current flow. My power consumption dropped from 33 per day to 23 as read on my meter and double checked with the whole house monitor.

The power company freaked out. Thought something must be broken and instead of using the readings from the new meter they just applied my consumption from the previous month after thinking about it for an extra three weeks. The overcharge is only about 30$. I wonder what will happen next month when they see the same low consumption.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jul 23, 2013)

I noticed the meter was broken a few years ago. Called and reported it. At some point the next day power went off and came back on twice. I went out and the guy was leaving and we had a new meter. And a blown out $800 UPS unit from the surges. According to them it couldn't possibly have been their fault. And I got an estimated bill for triple our usual monthly usage for the next month. I now have daily logging of usage to shove up their poop shoot next time. 

At least they have stopped coming out every couple of years and walking around my wood stacks to change the meter like they did for years and years.


----------



## blades (Jul 23, 2013)

Yep, same thing here never responsible for power surges destroying equipment. They were out about 4 times last year trying to figure out how I am " cheating them", got a warning letter to that effect as well. Sent one back warning them of defamation of character.  Seems its ok for them to jack the price every quarter and charge me for dead beats  ect. but heaven help ya if you go and cut your use by a large %. Phone co. ain't any better either.


----------



## Highbeam (Jul 23, 2013)

After two hours on the phone with the power company, it turns out they were able to declare that my old meter had died. Died at the exact same time I called them and then I got the new meter. They guessed on my consumption since my old meter must have not been logging the consumption to have read so low. In other words, the reduced consumption must be from a broken meter and not from conservation.

Quite fishy.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jul 23, 2013)

Since we are in a co-op and the CEO loves to refer to member owners only when he is sticking it to us for something then instead of calling the customer service number I call him. The freakin co-op is larger than most of the public owned electric companies in the country now.

He hates it but usually something happens pretty fast.


----------



## velvetfoot (Jul 23, 2013)

Or,  perhaps the old meter read high. :


----------



## sloeffle (Jul 23, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> My power consumption dropped from 33 per day to 23 as read on my meter and double checked with the whole house monitor.
> .


 
Which whole house power monitor do you have ? And do you like it ?

Scott


----------



## peakbagger (Jul 23, 2013)

Yup dealing with the power company is a PITA. In most areas there is Public Utilities Commission and a threat to write a letter to the PUC sometimes does wonders. Don't call, write, they have to keep written complaints on file and in theory they are reviewed by the PUC when the utility goes for rate hike. I think I have been flagged for possible power theft when both my solar systems went on line (and expect I will be again when the new system turns on).

If you dont already have one, a whole house surge suppresser is highly recommended. I recommend this one http://www.midnitesolar.com/products.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=23&productCatName=Surge Protection Devices as their clamp voltage is low enough that most electronics will survive. Some of the prior suppressors clamp at over a 1000 volts so if there is a hit, even if it works, you may still get damage. I lost an inverter last year due to a utility issue and my existing while house unit didn't save it. (or course who knows what else it may have actually saved). I also like the unit as its made in the US.


----------



## Highbeam (Jul 23, 2013)

sloeffle said:


> Which whole house power monitor do you have ? And do you like it ?
> 
> Scott


 
I bought the efergy elite model. It works great and as I recall was only like 130$. This meter samples every so many seconds and is able to pick up loads to the watt. I know when the fridge door is opened by the 30 watt load that appears on the display.

Did you know that GFCI outlets each burn about 6 watts all the time? I would not have known this without being able to isolate the loads using the monitor. This is the case with the leviton GFCI outlets in my shop.

All the modems and other vampire loads make up 150 watts of standby loss in my home.


----------



## Como (Jul 23, 2013)

I chopped the phone last year, now use VOIP (Ooma) can not see how the TelCo's will survive charging their outlandish prices.


----------



## gregbesia (Jul 24, 2013)

Como said:


> I chopped the phone last year, now use VOIP (Ooma) can not see how the TelCo's will survive charging their outlandish prices.


I also fired my telephone company. I'm using Obi 110 with Google voice. Simply love it. No monthly charges unless you call over seas.


----------



## blades (Jul 24, 2013)

Havent had a land line at home for almost 13 years now.
PSC around here pretty much rubber stamps anything the utility co. wants.  Just got my combined bill for last month, on NG side the add on charges were 3 times the cost of the gas used. The new HE washer has made a  difference on the gas consumption about a penny a day.  At that rate  it will only take 191 years to recoup.


----------



## charly (Jul 24, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I bought the efergy elite model. It works great and as I recall was only like 130$. This meter samples every so many seconds and is able to pick up loads to the watt. I know when the fridge door is opened by the 30 watt load that appears on the display.
> 
> Did you know that GFCI outlets each burn about 6 watts all the time? I would not have known this without being able to isolate the loads using the monitor. This is the case with the leviton GFCI outlets in my shop.
> 
> All the modems and other vampire loads make up 150 watts of standby loss in my home.


This the model you have?






Efergy Elite Classic 3.0 Electricity Power Monitor
    Buy it now 
$98.99
Free shipping


----------



## Highbeam (Jul 24, 2013)

Woops, I actually have the E2 model which is a bit more money.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XOZG0Y...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6b4a77wfvs_e

You can, but I have not, download the info to your PC to make all sorts of wonderful graphs. It comes with a usb cord for this.


----------



## Mr A (Aug 28, 2013)

Power company cheats, plain and simple. I was out of town for a month and shut down the main breaker. No juice at all being used and I was still billed the "estimated monthly usage" based on the usage for the same month a year prior.


----------



## Grisu (Aug 28, 2013)

Mr A said:


> Power company cheats, plain and simple. I was out of town for a month and shut down the main breaker. No juice at all being used and I was still billed the "estimated monthly usage" based on the usage for the same month a year prior.


 
That is only cheating when they don't read your meter at some point and calculate the actual usage. Our power company was reading the meter every two months and sometimes the estimates in the odd months were quite a bit off especially when we just had moved in. (The previous owners must have used A LOT MORE than we do.) Nevertheless, that was always corrected the next month by the actual amount used.


----------



## begreen (Aug 28, 2013)

The power company estimates to save money. Ask them to come out the next time and read the meter. You should have an adjustment coming.


----------



## PapaDave (Aug 28, 2013)

Our co-op has us read the meter every month, and they check once every year in July to make sure all is well.
It takes me little time and I input the info online every month on the 10th. I sometimes check every few days to see usage.
We seem to be pretty thrifty, unless the air is running.


----------



## Corey (Aug 28, 2013)

Generally, power companies actually 'encourage' conservation.  They would rather have 500,000 customers using 100kwh of power a month, and submitting their $30 customer fee rather than 50,000 customers using 1000kwh a month and their $30 customer fee.  Same cost in power, but they would make an additional 1.5 million in customer fees.

Maybe they are trying to apply some type of 'level pay system' where they charge you based on previous averages?

Though it is fun to give the utility co a good freak out over the meter.  When I moved into this place, the previous owner kept it about 80F on the gas heat and one of the registers had fallen out downstairs, so it had to heat up to about 90 to get the upstairs about 80.  Her gas bill was about $350/month.  I fixed up the furnace and moderated the heat which got the bill down to about $150.  The next year I went to wood and the bill dropped to about $35.  Several months later, a new gas meter showed up!  That very same month I ran out of wood, ran the furnace and the bill was back up to $150.  I think the gas company thought they struck gold!  But the next year I was back on wood and the furnace hasn't run 10 times since then.


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Sep 1, 2013)

I have my electric usage down to around 270kwh per month.  I plan to buy a new fridge next year that should cut at least 30% of my usage.  My current fridge has Montgomery Wards written on the handle.   The kill-a-watt states that it uses around 90kwh a month.  There are new guidelines for fridge energy use coming out next year.  A few years ago I had electric water heating and clothes drying. I was running around 5-600kwh a month.  Switching my house to natural gas was a huge savings.  Maybe after I swap fridges I'll look into swapping the stove.  It hurts to consider getting rid of a perfectly good stove, but electricity is 2.5 X more expensive than natural gas.


----------



## StihlHead (Sep 1, 2013)

Amusing. No one reads meters here any more. They are all digital, and tracked via the electric grid (used as a network). I can also read the meter's digital display at any time. No issues here with billing, I can go from high to low use in any given month, or high to low, and that is what I get billed for. My hot tub is the most expensive appliance, followed by the hot water heater and refrigerator. I use about 500 kwhr per month in summer, 700 kwhr in winter. My only gripe is that I pay $10 a month just to be connected to PGE services. That is 20% of my electric bill.


----------



## Highbeam (Sep 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> The power company estimates to save money. Ask them to come out the next time and read the meter. You should have an adjustment coming.


 
That is what happened. They went back and gave me a credit. Their excuse for the circle jerk was that they did the estimated bill to allow them time to do the math on the actual bill. Switching meters means a human has to do some data entry and since the bill must go out by a certain day they estimate simply since they don't have the data entry work done yet.

My credit was substantial but is not intended to make up for years of a faulty meter potentially overbilling me.

I don't feel that I was cheated, just jerked around.


----------



## Adios Pantalones (Sep 3, 2013)

gregbesia said:


> I also fired my telephone company. I'm using Obi 110 with Google voice. Simply love it. No monthly charges unless you call over seas.


We have a package (phone, cable, internet) and when we asked about cutting the phone- it would only save like $2-3 a month! I like having internet, and the wife would freak without TV, so we're a bit stuck


----------



## Adios Pantalones (Sep 3, 2013)

Oh- and your TV box may be a real hog. I read that it may draw as much on standby as an efficient fridge uses, so I put it all on a power surge strip that gets shut off. It's unnerving that when I shut it down I hear some fan or some other hum stop. Makes ya think.


----------



## bryan (Sep 3, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Oh- and your TV box may be a real hog. I read that it may draw as much on standby as an efficient fridge uses, so I put it all on a power surge strip that gets shut off. It's unnerving that when I shut it down I hear some fan or some other hum stop. Makes ya think.



Those DVR models definitely.  They hummed all the time from the HD even when they were "off".   We cut the TV last month and both have cells so all we have is internet.   Netflix and a homemade OTA antenna did wonders.


----------



## BoilerMan (Sep 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> My credit was substantial but is not intended to make up for years of a faulty meter potentially overbilling me.
> 
> I don't feel that I was cheated, just jerked around.


 
Please understand that this is in no way intended at you.

Does anyone ever feel like their meter is reading low and the PC should come out and change it?  If it is in fact reading low _they _are being shorted $$$.  No one ever cares if their bill is low, only if they think it's too high. 

TS


----------



## billjustbill (Sep 10, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> I noticed the meter was broken a few years ago. Called and reported it. At some point the next day power went off and came back on twice. I went out and the guy was leaving and we had a new meter. And a blown out $800 UPS unit from the surges. According to them it couldn't possibly have been their fault. And I got an estimated bill for triple our usual monthly usage for the next month. I now have daily logging of usage to shove up their poop shoot next time.
> 
> At least they have stopped coming out every couple of years and walking around my wood stacks to change the meter like they did for years and years.


 
The local Co-op I have to live with did almost the same thing, except the power surges from a transfer from their old power lines to a new set of poles and lines for miles both ways knocked out over $1,000 worth of electrical items....  "It was because of 'my' poor grounding that has actually worked flawlessly for 30 years!!   PLUS, the real choker is that if you have a problem with their meter, 'they' take it and check it....not an independent lab.  It's like "the fox watching the hen house"....   

I've spent the last 2 years collecting solar panels, equipment, and heavy wire.  Paying for it with our own garage sales and the sale of gold and sterling silver found at local garage sales for pennies to 50cents on the dollar....  By the time I'm finished, I'll get the 30% tax credit this year, too.  It will amount to about $5,000.  

 In this coming October, I'll be able to have a 24v, 3.5kw off grid system....  We have a power company $15 monthly charge, so there is no minimum and no penalty.  I WILL NOT be on any type of buy-back/grid tie with my system.  Have eight 880ah L16 six volt batteries and two 3,500 watt Outback inverters, I can run just about all my 120v circuits including clothes washer, dishwasher, DLP tv, hair dryer, lights, computer, etc.  I'm going to use the grid for my heavy amp start-up 220v items like the clothes dryer, kitchen range, and deep water well pumps... 

 It will feel so good 'to stick it to them', one watt at a time!!  ;>)


----------

