# custom switzer



## gfirkus (Aug 8, 2016)

.Here are some pics of my custom 1400 gallon boiler. It was made to fit in the back of my 14'x28' boiler room. It is 6' long and 77" dia before insulation. It is all set and insulated, just waiting to start the piping and electrical
	

		
			
		

		
	










	

		
			
		

		
	
 soon. I'm hoping to get a fire in it by end of sept.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 9, 2016)

Looks great. Simple firebox inside of a water jacket?


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## sportbikerider78 (Aug 9, 2016)

Holy cow!  How do you insure that house with that inside an attached garage?


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## velvetfoot (Aug 9, 2016)

Awesome!


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## TCaldwell (Aug 9, 2016)

is this a diy or is gary and his son in law doing the install?


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## gfirkus (Aug 9, 2016)

Yes to the first ?. The fire box is 3' deep, I guess I never measured the width or height. Its quite large. There is a 6" pipe out the fire box that goes to the back of the boiler and then goes to 2 passes of 9- 2" pipes. My ins. co. said that it is fine as long as --1. It is a secondary heat source. 2. Proper clearances are held. 3. It is installed properly. It's a diy, but I'm having a plumber make all the connections for me. This year Gary incorporated an electronic control box into the system to control the draft inducer and doors. It seems pretty slick. The reasons for this particular boiler -- I wanted a pressurized boiler with storage, It's very simple, I haven't heard any bad comments or reviews about this system, Gary has been building these since 1982 I believe.


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## TCaldwell (Aug 10, 2016)

I believe this is a gasifier, with a insulated secondary burn chamber behind the primary chamber? how about a pic of the new control box.


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## Karl_northwind (Aug 15, 2016)

Check wisconsin code.  it is very clear about no solid fuel burners in garage spaces.  Believe me, I would if it was safe and legal.   
Wi SPS 323.045 (B): Solid-Fuel-Burning appliances may not be installed in a garage unless listed for that application.  

Unless you turn that space into "not a garage" should you ever have an "incident" you can expect an issue with the insurance co.  if they find out it's installed in a non-code compliant manner, expect them to not be your friend.  I'll bet there is small print in the solid fuel rider on your policy that if it's installed not per local codes you will be SOL.  I don't mean to come down on you too hard, but they will look for any way out.  I had a family member go thru that BS a couple years ago.  Don't chance it.


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## gfirkus (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks for the info Karl. I'll have to look into it. I suppose I misinterpreted the "local codes" part.  I don't remember you mentioning this last year when I met with you about possibly purchasing a GARN to fit in that space.


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## Vinced (Aug 16, 2016)

I also live in Central Wisconsin and have an outdoor wood boiler and a free standing Lopi wood stove in my house. My insurance said no way to a wood furnace or boiler in the house or my 30'x40' separate shop. They said the outdoor wood boiler had to be 40ft from any building. My Lopi free standing wood stove in my house has been inspected with pictures taken by the insurance company about every 5 years. They say has long has its installed to code and not my primary source of heat it is alright, but they watch it closely. I have Country financial for my insurance company.


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## Highbeam (Aug 17, 2016)

The garage thing isn't a local code, it's the national fire code. The real question is "what's a garage"? That just looks like a boiler room with an overhead door right?


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## Karl_northwind (Aug 18, 2016)

Our conversation revolved around turning the space into a boiler room with an overhead door.  if you can't fit a car into it (either because of size or entrance barriers ) it's not a garage.


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## gfirkus (Aug 18, 2016)

I haven't had a chance to positively verify with insurance yet, but at least I learned the right verbiage to use when talking with them. It was never to be a storage area for anything besides a boiler and some wood. All the clutter in the pics, including the upper storage will be gone. I just took some quick pics while setting up.


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## Wook660 (Aug 22, 2016)

Nice!  We went with Gary's new electronic control box setup and it's been working great!


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## Buzz Saw (Sep 5, 2016)

In the  picture with the board that has as your valves & copper piping, did you buy that prefabricated of did you do that yourself? 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## gfirkus (Sep 5, 2016)

Buzz Saw said:


> In the  picture with the board that has as your valves & copper piping, did you buy that prefabricated of did you do that yourself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Gary made that along with the manifolds I needed for my infloor.


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## Wook660 (Sep 6, 2016)

Yeah, Gary prefabs them at his shop for your specific application to save time when he does the final install at your house.


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## gfirkus (Sep 7, 2016)

The insurance ok'd the setup today. My agent had contacted their regional claims advocate to double check the situation.


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## Zef_66 (Oct 27, 2016)

Looks good! I pick up my 1050 on Monday from Gary. Can't wait to get mine installed and fired up!


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## gfirkus (Oct 27, 2016)

Zef_66 said:


> Looks good! I pick up my 1050 on Monday from Gary. Can't wait to get mine installed and fired up!


I'm still working on mine.  Between work and family stuff I've been extremely busy since august. I still need to find some time to go bow hunting yet!! Hopefully in a couple weeks I'll have it going.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 28, 2016)

Vinced said:


> I also live in Central Wisconsin and have an outdoor wood boiler and a free standing Lopi wood stove in my house. My insurance said no way to a wood furnace or boiler in the house or my 30'x40' separate shop. They said the outdoor wood boiler had to be 40ft from any building. My Lopi free standing wood stove in my house has been inspected with pictures taken by the insurance company about every 5 years. They say has long has its installed to code and not my primary source of heat it is alright, but they watch it closely. I have Country financial for my insurance company.



Really??  We had Country Financial up until last year and when I contacted my agent about putting a Kuuma wood furnace in the basement and installing an interior-ran chimney all he said was, "have it professionally installed" and you'll be fine.  I had the chimney professionally installed and also the ductwork.  I installed the furnace myself, which was just basic wiring.

We have since switched to Acuity and when we disclosed we had a wood furnace they mentioned we may be contacted by someone to come out and look at the installation.  It's been 6+ months or so since then and nobody has contacted us about it.


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## TCaldwell (Nov 1, 2016)

Wook, how does the control box work to regulate the fire?


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## Wook660 (Nov 1, 2016)

TCaldwell said:


> Wook, how does the control box work to regulate the fire?



Well to be honest, there is a lot going on inside that box that's over my head, but I'll tell you what I know.

There are two thermocouples in the pipe right after it leaves the boiler before the fan that feed to the control box.  The control box controls the speed of the fan which is infinitely adjustable, meaning it isn't just on off or high low, it changes speed depending on temperature.  There are three doors on the front that are constantly adjusted depending on temperature, one for the main fire box door, one at the small lower firebox door, and one on the side that feeds air directly to the back of the fire box.
The control box also provides power to the zone/circulating valves.  If you put too much wood in and bring the water temp up too much, it has to dump the excess heat so it overrides you thermostats (don't do that in the summer, doh!)
It also controls if equipped, when your oil gun backup kicks in.  There are three controls on the front of the boiler to adjust temperature settings for when to dump the heat, kick in the oil, (drawing a blank on the third, at work right now)

The box also houses the readings for the thermocouples and on off switches for the boiler.

So I'm not sure if this all helps, and a very basic overview, but it works and works well.


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## Zef_66 (Nov 4, 2016)

gfirkus said:


> I'm still working on mine.  Between work and family stuff I've been extremely busy since august. I still need to find some time to go bow hunting yet!! Hopefully in a couple weeks I'll have it going.



I've got mine home and in the basement. But haven't touched it since. And this weekend is moving weekend from the old house to new house. So I'm right there with you on the time schedule.


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## gfirkus (Nov 12, 2016)

I had the first fire today. It took about 5 hrs and 3 wheelbarrows of wood to take 1400 gallons from 55 to 210. Once the water temp got to 120 or so stack temps went up to the 350 range. Then the draft inducer slows down to keep it burning in the "sweet spot". I'm impressed with Gary's setup.


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## Zef_66 (Feb 3, 2017)

I'm hoping to fire mine up this weekend for the first time. I can't wait!


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## Wook660 (Feb 7, 2017)

Zef_66 said:


> I'm hoping to fire mine up this weekend for the first time. I can't wait!


So, how'd it go??!!


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## Zef_66 (Feb 14, 2017)

Wook660 said:


> So, how'd it go??!!



Actually was a week late firing it up. So just did it this past weekend. First burn took about the same as you; 5 hours and 3 wheelbarrow loads of wood to get to 220. Heating my house and all my DHW using wood is awesome! This thing really works.

My second burn I did last night. The water temp was down to 170°F, so I only needed a half load of wood. It came up to temp quickly (even quicker than the first burn). And heated up to 215°F nicely. I did have to adjust the water level in the expansion tank a little as the pressure was creeping up and weeping some out the blow off valve. But a little bit drained out and we were good to go. 

I am also impressed at the smoothness of his setup. I know Gary was reluctant to go to the electronic controls at first. But just like his stoves, he seems to have things worked out quite well. My brother bought a boiler from him about 2 years ago and has the old mechanical controls. While they work, the electronic controls seem much smoother. 

I was also impressed how well the boiler held the heat over the night. Even 12 hours after the burn was finished, the temp of the water never budged. The coals left from the burn must keep heating the water overnight. Even 24 hours later, I had a few coals to start the next fire with. Throw in a couple pieces of cardboard, load it up with wood, hit the start button and the thing takes off. You don't have to touch a thing! I can't wait to get home tonight to do it again!


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 14, 2017)

Good to hear another successful wood burning story.

What's your minimum temperature before you need to fire?   170°F seems really high to need a fire.

With my Garn I top out and 170° and go down to 110° ish. 

 The Garn is unpressurised so maybe that's the difference  in temp ranges.


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## Zef_66 (Feb 14, 2017)

Buzz Saw said:


> Good to hear another successful wood burning story.
> 
> What's your minimum temperature before you need to fire?   170°F seems really high to need a fire.
> 
> ...



220°F is the highest I want to see it. It can be pushed to 230°F max, but aiming for 220°F allows for some overshoot. This is a pressurized system. So that 220°F is at 25psi. 

I could probably go another day and let it drop down to 110°F, but then I would need a longer burn time on my next burn. I am a creature of habit and like get into a system of doing a small burn everyday. That is my plan anyway. 

My minimum temp is around 115°F as that is where the aquastat shuts off the wood boiler and switches over to my backup propane boiler. My radiant floor heat uses water at 90-110°F temps.


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## Buzz Saw (Feb 14, 2017)

Does your efficiency go down as temperature goes up?  On my unit after 160 the last 10 degrees takes forever to achieve 170.  I can go from 110 to 160 in about 2hr 15 minutes.

I totally understand habits.  We had a warm week and I can home and made fire....Well it was almost 80° in the barn(where we are living during our remodel....The wife was not haply.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## maple1 (Feb 14, 2017)

Zef_66 said:


> 220°F is the highest I want to see it. It can be pushed to 230°F max, but aiming for 220°F allows for some overshoot. This is a pressurized system. So that 220°F is at 25psi.
> 
> I could probably go another day and let it drop down to 110°F, but then I would need a longer burn time on my next burn. I am a creature of habit and like get into a system of doing a small burn everyday. That is my plan anyway.
> 
> My minimum temp is around 115°F as that is where the aquastat shuts off the wood boiler and switches over to my backup propane boiler. My radiant floor heat uses water at 90-110°F temps.



I would drop those temps some. Sounds like you're working with a 50° swing (170-220), I would put that swing down  to more like 140-190. Or even lower if your low end is 115. I started out charging my storage fairly high - now I don't usually go much past 180. Don't fire until I need to - usually 130-140 on top. Would also depend on your emitters - I have Slantfin baseboard, oversized a bit. The higher the boiler temps, the lower the efficiency - although I don't know if it's enough of a difference to worry about. I also like more of an overshoot cushion to the overheat zone.


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## Fred61 (Feb 14, 2017)

The written rule in the world of energy efficiency is to work with the lowest temperatures your system can tolerate whether it is wood, fossil, solar or any other way of making heat. The lower the temperature the lower the loss. Not only that, the last 20 degrees come at a huge expense in that the boiler has more trouble absorbing the BTUs being made. To raise the temperature from 200 to 220 it takes a much larger amount of wood percentage wise than it does to raise the temperature from 180 to 200.

Over the course of the winter it could cost you a cord +.


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## gfirkus (Feb 14, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I would drop those temps some. Sounds like you're working with a 50° swing (170-220), I would put that swing down  to more like 140-190. Or even lower if your low end is 115. I started out charging my storage fairly high - now I don't usually go much past 180. Don't fire until I need to - usually 130-140 on top. Would also depend on your emitters - I have Slantfin baseboard, oversized a bit. The higher the boiler temps, the lower the efficiency - although I don't know if it's enough of a difference to worry about. I also like more of an overshoot cushion to the overheat zone.


Gary told me to take temp up to 205 to 210 on every fire and wait till temp gets down to 140 ish with 120 being the lowest. I agree it seems to take longer above 170 to raise temp. I like to run the temp up because I get more time out of storage. I've been going 2 days between fires most of the winter  . With temps in the 30's now I can stretch it to 3 days.


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## TCaldwell (Feb 14, 2017)

With the garn I like the 145/175 routine, 90 lbs wood 2000gal 30 deg rise


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## maple1 (Feb 14, 2017)

gfirkus said:


> Gary told me to take temp up to 205 to 210 on every fire and wait till temp gets down to 140 ish with 120 being the lowest. I agree it seems to take longer above 170 to raise temp. I like to run the temp up because I get more time out of storage. I've been going 2 days between fires most of the winter  . With temps in the 30's now I can stretch it to 3 days.



Did he give a reason as to why? If running it up that extra 20° or so will get you another day before having to burn again, I could certainly understand that, I think. Otherwise, getting that extra amount of heat in the tank will cost on the wood consumption end. I would love to have more storage to be able to skip more days.

That's what I seemed to observe after a year or two here, supported by what I had also read - but everyones setups & preferences are different, so it still comes down to doing how you prefer.

Sure sounds like a good unit though.


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## gfirkus (Feb 14, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Did he give a reason as to why? If running it up that extra 20° or so will get you another day before having to burn again, I could certainly understand that, I think. Otherwise, getting that extra amount of heat in the tank will cost on the wood consumption end. I would love to have more storage to be able to skip more days.
> 
> That's what I seemed to observe after a year or two here, supported by what I had also read - but everyones setups & preferences are different, so it still comes down to doing how you prefer.
> 
> Sure sounds like a good unit though.


I'm sure I asked and he told me but I can't remember the reason for sure. I think it has to do with stack temp and not leaving any unburned wood at shutdown. Everything (except high temp shutoff - aquastat) is controlled by the stack temp through the control box. Fan speed, primary-secondary- side air doors. When stack temp hits 210 fan and all air doors shut down. If water temp is at 180 it it absorbs more btus thus lower stack temps as it burns down and could leave some wood unburned. At least I think that's how it works?? I've only been online with this unit for 3 months. I'm sure there is a bit more to learn about it.


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## gfirkus (Mar 3, 2017)

So I decided to keep track of temp and time tonight. Top of boiler temp was at 130 when I started a fire. 1-1/2 hrs in it was up to 175. I reloaded (a little too much) and 2-1/2 more hrs it was up to 220 and shut down. When I fire I usually turn on my bsmt floor loop and it will take another 1 or so. Tonight I left it off. 1400 gal was raised 90 deg in 4 hrs. How does that compare to other systems?


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## TCaldwell (Mar 4, 2017)

Based on your numbers, 1400x8.34=11,676btu/degree raised.
11676x90 deg raised=1,050,840 total btu into storage.
  1050840/4hrs= a firing rate 262,700 btu/hr.
    Next time weigh your wood so we can determine in the future how many lbs you will need to load to get to a desired storage temp.


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## TCaldwell (Mar 4, 2017)

thats the overall firing rate from start to finish, does gary offer a firing rate for this boiler, 350kbtu?


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## goosegunner (Mar 4, 2017)

It would still make me very nervous to run the water temps up to 220 with pex pipe in your system. Could be disastrous if it fails.

gg


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## maple1 (Mar 4, 2017)

Yes, I think I'll stick with my earlier thoughts on the high temps.


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## Marshy (May 12, 2017)

Do I dare ask what such a machine costs? His shop is within driving distance to me, maybe 2 hrs.


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## gfirkus (May 13, 2017)

Marshy said:


> Do I dare ask what such a machine costs? His shop is within driving distance to me, maybe 2 hrs.


Give Gary a call and he can go over pricing with you for different sizes. Even if it is to much, you should still go to his shop and see the one he has running. You might change your mind.


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## Marshy (May 13, 2017)

gfirkus said:


> Give Gary a call and he can go over pricing with you for different sizes. Even if it is to much, you should still go to his shop and see the one he has running. You might change your mind.


Or make a feeble attempt to build one. Thanks


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## maple1 (May 13, 2017)

I was thinking they were priced comparable to a Garn, but don't really know. Think Garns start at around $11k for the Jr?


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## gfirkus (May 13, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I was thinking they were priced comparable to a Garn, but don't really know. Think Garns start at around $11k for the Jr?


When I checked in 15' it was a tick over $13,000 for a garn from my local dealer. Mine was under that but I had to get it to wisco. To build a similar boiler is do-able, but the controls is the ticket to get right. I'm 5 days between burns right now for heating DHW. 5 person house hold. I absolutely love it. FYI - this was a 3-4 year research and $ save for me, but I wanted the best. I also added a boiler room before I bought. I plan on staying at this house for a great while. ( as long as I keep the wife happy, that's the key)


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## S.Whiplash (May 13, 2017)

Zef_66 said:


> 220°F is the highest I want to see it. It can be pushed to 230°F max, but aiming for 220°F allows for some overshoot. This is a pressurized system. So that 220°F is at 25psi.
> 
> I could probably go another day and let it drop down to 110°F, but then I would need a longer burn time on my next burn. I am a creature of habit and like get into a system of doing a small burn everyday. That is my plan anyway.
> 
> My minimum temp is around 115°F as that is where the aquastat shuts off the wood boiler and switches over to my backup propane boiler. My radiant floor heat uses water at 90-110°F temps.




I don't know if the Switzer uses refractory or not but from my experience refractory will wear a lot more at 200+F than it does running at 185F max.


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## Wook660 (May 24, 2017)

S.Whiplash said:


> I don't know if the Switzer uses refractory or not but from my experience refractory will wear a lot more at 200+F than it does running at 185F max.


No refractory


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## Zef_66 (Aug 7, 2017)

gfirkus said:


> When I checked in 15' it was a tick over $13,000 for a garn from my local dealer. Mine was under that but I had to get it to wisco. To build a similar boiler is do-able, but the controls is the ticket to get right. I'm 5 days between burns right now for heating DHW. 5 person house hold. I absolutely love it. FYI - this was a 3-4 year research and $ save for me, but I wanted the best. I also added a boiler room before I bought. I plan on staying at this house for a great while. ( as long as I keep the wife happy, that's the key)



Mine was right around $11k picked up. Mine is a standard 1050. 

Right now, just for DWH for 5 people, I am going 8 days between burns.


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