# Corn stove and clinker problems



## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Hey everyone,

I'm new to corn stove burning, but it's been a mostly positive experience so far. The one thing that's keeping it from being amazing is my experience with the clinker. The stove burns hot and seems to have little issues, but after burning about 18 hours, when I attempt to remove the clinker, there isn't anything completely solidified on the bottom. Instead, the layer on the bottom is softer like clay and the poker doesn't get underneath it but just digs into it. It'd be okay if the fire had no issues, but the pot eventually fills up and the fire dies. After dying, this soft layer hardens and forms a clinker, but it clings to the pot something fierce and I have to bust it apart into small pieces which takes about ten minutes. Currently, I'm averaging having to restart the fire completely every 24 hours which eats through starters pretty quickly.

In the past two weeks I have only had one successful clinker form and have removed it without issue. 

Any help or wisdom would be greatly appreciated!


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## hossthehermit (Dec 19, 2014)

What stove ya got ?????????????????


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Hey there, it's an Amaizablaze 4100.


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Something I'm going to try - although I'm not sure this will help - I'm going to sift the corn before putting it in the hopper to try and minimize dust or anything other than whole kernels. I'm wondering if the corn "dust" (partial corn bits and crushed grain) is messing things up.


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## hossthehermit (Dec 19, 2014)

Got a few cornburners on here, one should be along soon .......... or message sidecarflip on here


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

hossthehermit said:


> Got a few cornburners on here, one should be along soon .......... or message sidecarflip on here


Thanks!


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## Bioburner (Dec 19, 2014)

Have you tried adding some ground oyster shells that they feed to chickens to the corn.  Works for Countryside stoves well. About a cup to a bucket of corn. I add about a quart of pellets to a bucket of corn so the Bixby has no issues cutting a new biscuit. Have you contacted Nesco about how to remedy the problem ?


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Have you tried adding some ground oyster shells that they feed to chickens to the corn.  Works for Countryside stoves well. About a cup to a bucket of corn. I add about a quart of pellets to a bucket of corn so the Bixby has no issues cutting a new biscuit. Have you contacted Nesco about how to remedy the problem ?



I haven't tried any of that. I suppose I could get the oyster from tractor supply. Just to be sure, you're recommending trying to add a quart of wood pellets to a 55gal bucket of corn? I can try that as well.


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## Bioburner (Dec 19, 2014)

Quart of pellets to a 5 gallon bucket.


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Quart of pellets to a 5 gallon bucket.


Oops, slip on my part. I'm storing my corn in 55 gallon drums and wrote that out of habit. 

So, I'm going to give it a shot, is there something in the combustion process that the pellets do to help?


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## Bioburner (Dec 19, 2014)

Was recommended by another corn burner to keep the clinker from getting like a rock. The older corn varieties didn't seem to have as much of an issue. GMO problem? No access to lab anymore to try and figure out the makeup of the clinker.


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## ryanissamson (Dec 19, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Was recommended by another corn burner to keep the clinker from getting like a rock. The older corn varieties didn't seem to have as much of an issue. GMO problem? No access to lab anymore to try and figure out the makeup of the clinker.



Interesting. I'll give it a shot and report back.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 20, 2014)

ryanissamson said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I'm new to corn stove burning, but it's been a mostly positive experience so far. The one thing that's keeping it from being amazing is my experience with the clinker. The stove burns hot and seems to have little issues, but after burning about 18 hours, when I attempt to remove the clinker, there isn't anything completely solidified on the bottom. Instead, the layer on the bottom is softer like clay and the poker doesn't get underneath it but just digs into it. It'd be okay if the fire had no issues, but the pot eventually fills up and the fire dies. After dying, this soft layer hardens and forms a clinker, but it clings to the pot something fierce and I have to bust it apart into small pieces which takes about ten minutes. Currently, I'm averaging having to restart the fire completely every 24 hours which eats through starters pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


 
If you'd had sent me a PM, I would have replied.....

Take a coat hanger and form it into a loop that sticks above the burn pot, goest to the bottom of the bot and in the bottom, bend the legs at 90 degrees so each leg lays along the bottom of the pot parallel.....  (so it makes a handle with the loop sticking up to grab a hold of.) 

Harman's feed differently, Harman's push the fuel up toward the burn area and the burned fuel then drops off the burn plate into the ash pan..... 

........yours has a pot, like mine, consrquently you need what I term a 'clinker hanger'.  

 Anyway, put the shaped coat hanger in the bottom of the pot, add some pellets to start the fire (pellets always start a fire better, less temperature needed for initial combustion, get her going with corn and allow the usual clinker buildup in the bottom of the pot.  When the clinjer 'appears' of sufficient size, open the door, grap the hoop with your hand (in an oven mit or welding glove of course so you don't get burned) and lift the clinker with the clinker hangar up and tilt it at the same time so the burning corn on top, falls into the now, clean pot.  remove the bisquit and close the door (takes about 15 seconds total).

You are now ready to make another 'bisquit'.

You still need to cleran the stove regularly but using a clinker hangar and forming a bisquit makes life more bearable.

For disposal, let it cool and pop it with a hammer or toss the whole thing.  Coat hangers are cheap and one hanger makes 2 clinker pullers.

If the stove has an agitatir/stirrer, pull it.  You don't need it with straight corn.  Let the bisquit build without agitation.

Your pull interval will depend on corn test weight and how much you are combusting.  I typically pull mine every evening and clean my stove every 2 weeks when running hard.


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## ryanissamson (Dec 20, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> If you'd had sent me a PM, I would have replied.....
> 
> Take a coat hanger and form it into a loop that sticks above the burn pot, goest to the bottom of the bot and in the bottom, bend the legs at 90 degrees so each leg lays along the bottom of the pot parallel.....  (so it makes a handle with the loop sticking up to grab a hold of.)
> 
> ...




Great! I'm new so I'm still learning the community. I am trying the hangar trick now and will let you know how it goes. I might need to make the hangar legs wider along the bottom, but I'll see if it works with how it is. I only had a small hangar available. Thanks again for the tip! I'll also pick up a bag of pellets when I'm at the store for starting the fire.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

ryanissamson said:


> Great! I'm new so I'm still learning the community. I am trying the hangar trick now and will let you know how it goes. I might need to make the hangar legs wider along the bottom, but I'll see if it works with how it is. I only had a small hangar available. Thanks again for the tip! I'll also pick up a bag of pellets when I'm at the store for starting the fire.


 
Corn wise, the community here is a distinct minority.  There are a few as well as a moderator (Bioburner)who roast corn but most on here are pellet burners.  I suspect that will change as the corn versus pellet prices become even more attractive.  Most pellet stoves can readily burn up to a 50% corn-pellet mix with no modification to the a/f ratio.  Over 50% one needs to tailor the a/f ratio to a corn burn with more combustion air, run a modified corn pot and higher grade venting plus the maintenence, especially end of season maintenance becomes more critical.

I'm usually around (or Bioburner) if you have an issue or question.


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## hossthehermit (Dec 21, 2014)

Hopefully the availability of corn at a reasonable price gets better here in Maine ............ that was one of the biggest reasons I bought the Revolution initially, the multi-fuel capability........ since I've had it, all I can find is pellets


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

hossthehermit said:


> Hopefully the availability of corn at a reasonable price gets better here in Maine ............ that was one of the biggest reasons I bought the Revolution initially, the multi-fuel capability........ since I've had it, all I can find is pellets


 

Corn is just as easy to package as pellets (in bags), even easier because nature does the processing, not machinery.  You never know. here, living in a predominantly ag area, corn is almost 'underfoot' most of the time.

You do have something there, we don't have.....  moose.


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## johninwi (Dec 21, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> You do have something there, we don't have..... moose.



BTU's?

and i foresee auger problems


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

johninwi said:


> BTU's?
> 
> and i foresee auger problems


 
please elaborate?


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## Bioburner (Dec 21, 2014)

BTUs of corn is close to or better than pellets per pound. Density is more than pellets. Auger problems? Stuff flows better than pellets by far. Common issue with corn is that it needs to be below 15% to burn and store properly. I just made a small batch drier and getting it into single digits like pellets. Remember pellets are around 7-8% moisture.


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## johninwi (Dec 21, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> please elaborate?



sorry, coffee's just kicking in
they have moose but little corn, whats the btu's of a moose? how do you get the moose thru the auger?
work with me here


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## Bioburner (Dec 21, 2014)

I took care of animals for a vet and he had a meat grinder powered by a volkswagon engine. Cop stopped by one morning looking for someone as we just starting grinding a whole calf. Nope didn't see him here. Moose might take a bit longer. So the answer how do you get a moose thru the auger, get a bigger auger. Wolves are eating all of Minnesota moose.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> I took care of animals for a vet and he had a meat grinder powered by a volkswagon engine. Cop stopped by one morning looking for someone as we just starting grinding a whole calf. Nope didn't see him here. Moose might take a bit longer. So the answer how do you get a moose thru the auger, get a bigger auger. Wolves are eating all of Minnesota moose.


 
...and not at all on thread but along the above comment, I see the Washingtonians are going to make it illegal to hunt wolves (again), putting them (back) on the endangered species list which makes our wolf hunt here in Michigan (UP) illegal too.  I see where the only way you can legally take a wolf (if this fiasco is signed into law) is if it's a direct threat to a human..... stock animals, or elk or deer don't count.  What phooey.  I was kind of looking forward to having an alternate animal to hunt in Idaho next fall.....  Next will be song dogs, we are overrun with them here and they are a very wary animal to hunt.

I just don't get the rationale at all.

Back to regular programming.....


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> BTUs of corn is close to or better than pellets per pound. Density is more than pellets. Auger problems? Stuff flows better than pellets by far. Common issue with corn is that it needs to be below 15% to burn and store properly. I just made a small batch drier and getting it into single digits like pellets. Remember pellets are around 7-8% moisture.


 
A great synopsis, I'd like to add some additional information, some I've stated before, some not.  At my age, I do repeat myself ocassionally....

The ability of corn to produce heat by oxidation is directly dependent on what farmers refer to as 'test weight'  The higher the test weight is (test weight is based on 15% RM corn btw), the better the corn will be at producing heat from a given quantity.  You want corn ideally to be in the mid 50's test weight, again measured at 15%RM.

Corn needs to be below 15% RM to combust readily.  Corn from the field is not an ideal fuel for a biomass burner, one, it's dirty (has trash like stalk and cob parts intermixed with the kernals, it needs to be cleaned corn without trash.  You can buy a corn cleaner which does a good job or you can buy cleaned feed corn, I go with the latter myself.  Corn from the field can be anywhere in RM and test weight, typically harvested corn in this area was coming off above 20% RM.  Thats way too high to ignite.  To burn readily, corn needs to be in the 12 -14% range.  Below 12 it tends to burn too quickly.

Corn always flows (through a stove auger better than any pellet will).  Mother nature grows very uniform kernals, unlike pellets that can be odd lengths.  Nice thing about modern biofuel stoves is almost every one of them will readily combust corn in a mix with pellets, up to 50% corn and 50% pellets and it's very possible to take off brand, low grade pellets and mix in varying ratios of corn and obtain really good heat output.  Along those lines, at ratio's above 50-50 to straight corn, the stove has to be specifically designed to burn corn, usually with adjustable combustion air settings and a burn specific pot for corn, though some stoves come set up for pellets and already have a corn pot with additional holes that allow extrta combustion air to flow through the fuel bed.

Because corn combusts (carmelizes) at a much higher temperature than wood pellets, when initially starting a stove on straight corn, pellets should be used to establish the fire and then corn augered in on top of the burning pellets to readily ignite.  In mix ratio's below 50 -50, you can start the fire in thye normal way (igniter or gelled fire starter.

Corn prduces a different ash than pellets.  When corn combusts (or carmelizes), the inner portion of the kernal or the meat, oxides and gives off heat, while the outer shell turns to 'ash' or what you see in the pot.  That ash forms a clinker (or clumps) and that has to be removed periodically, just like the ash from the pellets does.  Some designs handle the clumps (clinkers) better than others.

Finally, because corn produces trace amounts of nitric acid vapor as a by product of combustion, the venting has to be rated for pellets and corn.  Pellet only venting is a lower grade of stainless (liner) and can eventually be impacted by the nitric acid vapors.  Additionally, the stove itself must be maintained at the end of the season with careful cleaning (as well as the venting) to remove all traces of ash that can attract moisture during the warmer moinths and turn to an acidic mass that will corrode the internal parts of the stove and/or the venting.....

There are of course, more finer points (as with anything) but the above generalizations are a good yardstick.


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## mithesaint (Dec 21, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> BTUs of corn is close to or better than pellets per pound. Density is more than pellets. Auger problems? Stuff flows better than pellets by far. Common issue with corn is that it needs to be below 15% to burn and store properly. I just made a small batch drier and getting it into single digits like pellets. Remember pellets are around 7-8% moisture.



Do you have any pics or details of the dryer?  Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly.  I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.


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## ryanissamson (Dec 21, 2014)

Not that I'm not enjoying this conversation, but back on topic, IT WORKED! 

Many thanks!


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

ryanissamson said:


> Not that I'm not enjoying this conversation, but back on topic, IT WORKED!
> 
> Many thanks!


 
I usually try to provide factual information, usually.

 No problem.  Corn burners have to stick (pun intended) together...lol

It won't always come out in one piece but most times, it will and coathangers are cheap and plentiful.  Take the bisquit outside to the garden plot and wack it with a hammer, retrieve the hangers and reinstall...next time.  4 hangers bent work all the time.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Was recommended by another corn burner to keep the clinker from getting like a rock. The older corn varieties didn't seem to have as much of an issue. GMO problem? No access to lab anymore to try and figure out the makeup of the clinker.


 

Something I'm pondering as well.  Will GMO corn react differently during carmelization and clinker formation...I don't know, in fact, I'm not sure what I'm burning.  It's old crop (last year's) corn so I'm presuming it's pre GMO.


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## Bioburner (Dec 21, 2014)

Most corn is GMO in this country now. If its resistant to bugs and Glyphosate its GMO. Listening to Conagra wanting non GMO beans and offering $2 bonus? Most corn in my area is for distillers. More sugar. Now have a fight about using industrial beets.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

mithesaint said:


> Do you have any pics or details of the dryer?  Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly.  I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.


 
You really don't wat to 'play' with corn over 15%RM for a couple reasons, most notably the fact that any corn over 15 will not combust properly because the high moisture content defeats the combustion process (it has to vaporize off the excess moisture before it can carmelize and ignite) and with excess vaporization you also get excess nitric acid vapor, a big no-no for internal stove parts (ferrous metal) and venting issues.

Never tried it myself (I think Bioburner is) mixing +15 corn with pellets and roasting that.  The pellets provide the heat impetus and assist combustion.

I just run my co-op sourced old crop -15 stuff. and call it good and I'm not running straight corn anyway, I'm on a 50-50 ratio because I pre-bought 5 ton of Somersets and while I store them inside in one of the barns, growing season demands all the under roof space for hay so pellets become a nusance in the summer.

I'd be real concerned about storage issues.  I pull my corn from a grain tank (GSI) with a bucket spout on the side so it's elevated and rodent proof,  One issue about corn storage is rodents.  Varmits love shelled corn, so do mice and rats.  If I was storing corn in anything other than a grain tank, it would be in 55 gallon drums with fitted lids secured with clamp rings and/or a dedicated plywood corn hopper, elevated from the ground on legs with a tight fitting topa d over 15 corn is asking for mold growth issues and/or heat from decomposition, why farmers never tank off harvest corn without drying it down below 15, the risk of spontaneous combustion is very real and wet corn burning really stinks.

It's quite possible to burn moldy corn so long as it's dry.  I've roasted some real ugly corn in the past that I got for free when the co-op cleaned their grain silo's.  The stuff was on the walls, nasty and old and it was free (key word) so I roasted it.  Looked like pismuckle white kernals but it butned.  Free is free.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Most corn is GMO in this country now. If its resistant to bugs and Glyphosate its GMO. Listening to Conagra wanting non GMO beans and offering $2 bonus? Most corn in my area is for distillers. More sugar. Now have a fight about using industrial beets.


 

I'll take your word on i in as much as I'm not a row cropper, just a consumer of sorts.  Feed and forage in, N out.  I have enough issues with roundup ready alfalfa.....  I think the 'distillers' are in a world of hurt right now.


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## rona (Dec 21, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Corn wise, the community here is a distinct minority.  There are a few as well as a moderator (Bioburner)who roast corn but most on here are pellet burners.  I suspect that will change as the corn versus pellet prices become even more attractive.  Most pellet stoves can readily burn up to a 50% corn-pellet mix with no modification to the a/f ratio.  Over 50% one needs to tailor the a/f ratio to a corn burn with more combustion air, run a modified corn pot and higher grade venting plus the maintenence, especially end of season maintenance becomes more critical.
> 
> I'm usually around (or Bioburner) if you have an issue or question.


[One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe  so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.


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## Bioburner (Dec 21, 2014)

I won't go near corn over 15%. Prefer 12% and now probably using single digit. Will get it tested tomorrow if have time. Storms coming with more rain BS. Lost power last Monday 4 times so with taking care of mothers horse farrier and other things I have a full plate tomorrow.


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## rona (Dec 21, 2014)

rona said:


> [One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe  so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.


One other  thing to think about is if you burn a higher mix of pellets  and corn  you can easily burn corn up to 15%. Pellets are usually 7 to 8% moisture and a blend will allow you to burn higher moisture corn. The stove design itself  has a limit of what moisture to burn. 
GMO corn has been around for quite a while and I have seen no difference in performance. Location has played more of a part in the clinker problem then variety or at least that was what the Harman rep used to say when he came to this area  showing his stoves.  I would complain about the clinker buildup on the agitator and he would nod his head and say yeah it is bad in this area. But most other places have had no problems. I thought he should have been a politician.


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## bags (Dec 21, 2014)

rona said:


> he would nod his head and say yeah it is bad in this area. But most other places have had no problems. I thought he should have been a politician.


Probably the same thing he said to people in other areas far away from you too.


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## mustangwagz (Dec 21, 2014)

Ill be joining the "corn burning bus" next week. Already told the wife my plan with the coat hangers (thanks to flip and some PM's) She said "that sounds dumb" and i told her she sounded dumb...so....she's in the other room now and im browsing the forum. LOL stinking women know it alls!   anyhow, yah sometime around or after christmas imma stick my coat hangers in the pot, pull the agitator and begin making caramel corn!


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

rona said:


> [One thing you should add is that corn can be tough on pellet pipe  so if you bought your stove to burn pellets the dealer more then likely installed pellet pipe which is cheaper then pipe for multi-fuel stoves.


 
With a caveat.  Straight corn and always corn in a pellet vent only will degrade the liner over time because the stainless used in a pellet only vent can't withstand the nitric acid vapor roasting corn produces, however, you can roast corn or a corn pellet mix with pellet only vent if (and only if) you follow a strict regimen of at least monthly, switching to pellets and running the stove hard for a period, running straight pellets for a period prior to spring shutdown and cleaning the stove and venting in the spring (thoroughly).  Not a once over, but a good, deep clean, especially the stove itself.  The stove interior is more prone to corrosion thatn the venting, especially from residual ash laying inside for months attracting moisture and becoming acidic.  The interior is ferrous metal...aka: steel sheet.

I pull my CA fan out and clean the transition, vacuum out everything, every nook and cranny and the I fog the stove inside with automotive fogging oil and kick on the CA fan for a minute to get the fog everywhere.

My pellet only venting has been in place since IBC was rocking.... and I have no corrosion anywhere.  Corn isn't like pellets simply because of the corrosion factor and that makes cleaning and final shutdown more complex.

IMO, lots of new burners approach this (stoves) as a plug and play item and when spring comes, shut it off and forget about it until the weather turns cold again.  You can get away with that for a short time with pellets only.  With corn, no way..

If my old memory serves me right you too were on IBC.  Rona rings a bell...faintly.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 21, 2014)

mustangwagz said:


> Ill be joining the "corn burning bus" next week. Already told the wife my plan with the coat hangers (thanks to flip and some PM's) She said "that sounds dumb" and i told her she sounded dumb...so....she's in the other room now and im browsing the forum. LOL stinking women know it alls!   anyhow, yah sometime around or after christmas imma stick my coat hangers in the pot, pull the agitator and begin making caramel corn!


 
A happy wife is a happy life....  It's Christmas.  Be good.


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## mustangwagz (Dec 21, 2014)

Flip, i forgot you mentioning the fogging after season is done. ill write that on my checklist of "Things to do when done" that coulda been a bad deal.   By the looks of things, the previous owner NEVER did that to this stove. when i bought it i found corn in places that it prolly shouldnt have been in.  

On Wednesday, the weather lire is predicting 50 degree's...if it is, that'll be a good day to yank the ole girl apart and give it a Super Cleaning. I intend on giving it the good hard brushing inside and out, The LBT, and i may pull the combustion fan since it'll be so nice. I can just turn on my electric space heaters and keep the house warm like that till i get it good and clean. Then ill construct some coat hangers and see how it does with either strait corn, or a heavy heavy corn mix. 

Lately with the corn i got ive had to screen it pretty good to get the junk out.  I think next year ill buy feedstore corn to cut out on some of the dicking around.  i been cleaning out large chunks of stalk and cob. Thanks to flip, the wire rotary screener idea is working fairly well. Sadly though, i still get some cob and smaller pieces of stalk through the screen and it ends up in my mix. Nothing to worry abou though, im sure it'll either burn or clinker-ize in the burn pot then ill get it with the scraper. When i first got this pellet stove, i was so worried about auger jams cuz everyone was talking about them...now that ive been running it for a few months, i dont feel so worried. Ive watched it push out some big ole chunks of corn and chew up some gnarly long pellets without any noise! So far, So good!  Love this ole girl, glad i paid the 100 bucks for it and gave it a good caring home where its beeing used 24/7 by someone who's mechanically inclined and petty picky about cleaning.


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## rona (Dec 22, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> With a caveat.  Straight corn and always corn in a pellet vent only will degrade the liner over time because the stainless used in a pellet only vent can't withstand the nitric acid vapor roasting corn produces, however, you can roast corn or a corn pellet mix with pellet only vent if (and only if) you follow a strict regimen of at least monthly, switching to pellets and running the stove hard for a period, running straight pellets for a period prior to spring shutdown and cleaning the stove and venting in the spring (thoroughly).  Not a once over, but a good, deep clean, especially the stove itself.  The stove interior is more prone to corrosion thatn the venting, especially from residual ash laying inside for months attracting moisture and becoming acidic.  The interior is ferrous metal...aka: steel sheet.
> 
> I pull my CA fan out and clean the transition, vacuum out everything, every nook and cranny and the I fog the stove inside with automotive fogging oil and kick on the CA fan for a minute to get the fog everywhere.
> 
> ...


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## rona (Dec 22, 2014)

Yeah I was . One other thing I forgot to mention is a cheap idea of drying corn as you need it. If you find you corn is a little wet for your stove get one of those screen type waste baskets That you used to see by secretarys desks. they will hold about 2 gallons of corn and if you set one on a chair in front of the stove you will take the moisture down about 2 points over night. That will typically take 15% corn to 13 and make it easier to burn. 
   Shutting your stove off in the spring and waiting until fall to clean it is pure neglect and lack of maintenance. The same people who do this are the first to complain about what a lousy stove they got and want to include the dealer cleaning their stove under warranty.


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## bags (Dec 22, 2014)

Just for some fun and education I've been burning a 50 / 50 mix in the P68 the last couple of days. It does feel like a hotter burn but haven't been able to measure the temp to verify this. Bioburner suggested some stuff so the last time I was at TSC I grabbed a couple of bags of feed corn. OUCH! $8.29 for a 50 lb. bag. Top shelf TSC designer corn ain't cheap. I did run multi-fuel vent because I wanted to have my bases covered just in case.

It burned easily and without any issues at all. I was willing to go the TSC big money for a trial run and to check it out. Now I will look for my source for the good cheap bulk corn. No rush since I have more than enough pellets. I will have to agree the 50 / 50 mix is a good fuel to burn. The original owner of the PC45 burned 100% corn and didn't do proper cleanings. I think if you burn 100% corn you have to stay on top of cleanings a bit more than pellets even. I also think he was burning crappy wet corn non-stop which eventually forced him to give up and sell it.


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## Bioburner (Dec 22, 2014)

Same people try and burn wood they cut a few weeks ago too. Have the same issues of cruding up the stove and a flue full of creosote.
Pay a lot to get anything put in a bag.


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## bags (Dec 22, 2014)

I know but it was worth it just to see about it and know the new non- 100% corn burning P68 handled it no problem. I was likely more than 50% corn the second day. Not much but I know there was more corn than pellets in the mix. Stove reacted like normal and no more mess or anything. Just a little bit different ash content. Not really any messier or anything so far. I'll have to get some local silo stuff and show up for a chew crackle test at a co-op or local farmer.

These guys know me so they'll be honest about what they have. Just haven't asked yet. Hopefully, the ones I go to first will have decent corn. About 2-3 miles away tops.


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## harttj (Dec 22, 2014)

mithesaint said:


> Do you have any pics or details of the dryer?  Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly.  I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.



I burn corn at 15% from the elevator. The price is based on 15% so people don't dry any lower as it doesn't make financial sense. 

If you want drier corn buy a drier or will need to find someone that will do custom drying. 

Tim


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## bags (Dec 22, 2014)

harttj said:


> I burn corn at 15% from the elevator. The price is based on 15% so people don't dry any lower as it doesn't make financial sense.
> 
> If you want drier corn buy a drier or will need to find someone that will do custom drying.
> 
> Tim


I'll check around on stuff. I am interested since corn is a lot less $$ than pellets and if you can cut costs I am all about that.


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## johninwi (Dec 22, 2014)

Reguarding moisture, the farmer i got my corn from has a drier on top of the silo, he heats the corn to 120* and drops it to the lower part of the silo. I believe he said it was at 15%, is this the conventional drying method and if so is it possible to dry it further by reheating it to a higher temp?

Also like the wire trash basket idea. Will be trying it.


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## rona (Dec 22, 2014)

johninwi said:


> Reguarding moisture, the farmer i got my corn from has a drier on top of the silo, he heats the corn to 120* and drops it to the lower part of the silo. I believe he said it was at 15%, is this the conventional drying method and if so is it possible to dry it further by reheating it to a higher temp?
> 
> Also like the wire trash basket idea. Will be trying it.


It costs more to dry for 15 down to 13 then it does 20 to 15.   I don't remember but I used to turn the heat up until I browned the corn then backed it down a little. That gave me the fastest drying time.   The funny part was I could run 19% though the dryer and it came out 21 hot. Then I used a cooling fan in the bin and by the time the corn got cooled down it was 15%.   There is many types of drying systems out there.  just dump it in a bin and run straight air through it will dry it. Then you can use hot air in the bin.  That same bin can be set up with a stirring device to suck up the real dry corn near the floor and lay it on the top of the pile of corn in the bin. Then I think it was StorMor who had that system on top that would dry so much and drop it onto the   floor of the bin.  Continous flow is the preferred system these days as it can produce the most frying at the cheapest cost.


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## johninwi (Dec 22, 2014)

Is it possible to determine MC by the weight? Also, if corn is brought in from outside where it was at or below freezing it's going to have condensation form, any ill effects?


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## Bioburner (Dec 22, 2014)

Very hard to get moisture # as corn can range from the 40 to 60+lbs per bushel. Bringing in corn cold from outside can condensate some moisture on it but winter air is usually very low humidity. I PMd you abit ago.


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## rona (Dec 22, 2014)

johninwi said:


> Is it possible to determine MC by the weight? Also, if corn is brought in from outside where it was at or below freezing it's going to have condensation form, any ill effects?


My Harman dealer told me not to try to burn corn that came from outside in my Harman.  He said the best way was to have a pail inside  ahead of time so the corn would warm up. I doubt condensation would have any effect .


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## johninwi (Dec 22, 2014)

In fall i had built a basement hopper and partially filled it, have burned thru most of it and was wondering if adding another 30+ bushel to the hopper would be an issue,
And in typing this i realize the closed hopper and the quantity may be important variables.


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## rona (Dec 23, 2014)

johninwi said:


> In fall i had built a basement hopper and partially filled it, have burned thru most of it and was wondering if adding another 30+ bushel to the hopper would be an issue,
> And in typing this i realize the closed hopper and the quantity may be important variables.


 I know there is a way of weighing a given amount of corn putting it in the micro wave for a certain time and reweighing it to determine moisture content but I don't know the details. Much easier to use my moisture tester of take a sample to elevator.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 23, 2014)

Most bulk bins that dry-store corn are bottom up drying, expecially the largest bulk bins from Brock and GSI, one reason I like old crop corn from the bulk bin at the co-op.  It will be below 15%RM in almost every instance.  I've tanked old crop in the 10 range before.

Corn is sold for feed at the benchmark 15%RM and test weight is measured at 15% thats how it's done, so if your test  weight is say 50 (pounds per bushel at 15RM) it's on the low side,  You really want corn in the 53-55 range or higher, though getting corn over 55 is rare.

Ag-Tronics makes a fairly inexpensive moisture testure thats readily available (digital readout) at TSC and most farm stores or online, Delmhorst makes a very accurate one but it's expensive and it's a multi-use unit, I have 2, one in a case on the shelf and one usually in a tractor.

You can also determine approxmate RM (if the corn is suitable for burning but not the actual moisture content) using the  PLIERS METHOD.....

The pliers method is simply taking one kernal in a pair of ordinary pliers and crushing it and observing how the kernal reacts to pressure.

If the kernal mushes as it's crushed by the jaws, chances are the RM is too high to combust readily and has too high a moisture content.

However, if the kernal fractures and crumbles as it's crushed by the plier jaws, it's within the -15% acceptable RM range.

It's not an accurate method, but certainly cheaper thana grain tester and most everyone has a pair of pliers in the drawer or toolbox.

Maybe someday this forum will acknowledge that corn burners are a viable segment here and initiate a a forum for corn with an information base, but for now, just just catalog the data......


rona said:


> My Harman dealer told me not to try to burn corn that came from outside in my Harman.  He said the best way was to have a pail inside  ahead of time so the corn would warm up. I doubt condensation would have any effect .


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 23, 2014)

Additionally, I pull my corn from the tank which is in front of the big barn, Jut drop the loader under the spout and pull the shutter up and fill the bucket.  From there it goes to my deck with rubbamaid plastic garbage cans, I dump in a bucket of corn and abucket of pellets and mix, repeat until full, repeat 4 times.

It comes from the rubbamaids on the deck into a 5 gallon pail, right into the stove, no warming, nothing, and gets roasted, no cleaning either, I get my corn cleaned for feed.  thats it.

I've never owned a corn cleaner and don't plan on buying one.  Far as I'm concerned, totally useless.  Never sifted or cleaned pellets either.  Far as I'm concerned, another totally useless waste of time.  I have better things to do, like sleeping.


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## rona (Dec 23, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Most bulk bins that dry-store corn are bottom up drying, expecially the largest bulk bins from Brock and GSI, one reason I like old crop corn from the bulk bin at the co-op.  It will be below 15%RM in almost every instance.  I've tanked old crop in the 10 range before.
> 
> Corn is sold for feed at the benchmark 15%RM and test weight is measured at 15% thats how it's done, so if your test  weight is say 50 (pounds per bushel at 15RM) it's on the low side,  You really want corn in the 53-55 range or higher, though getting corn over 55 is rare.
> 
> ...


 Different areas use different methods of drying corn.  Drying from bottom up has pretty much disappeared except for the air dry systems that don't use heat. All the grain elevators and most larger farmers use a separate continuous flow dryer whereby you drop the wet corn on top and it continuously flows down until it gets to the bottom where it is augured into a leg that drops it into a large bin or silo where it is cooled down to 15.5%.  This is the way it is done in Minn and most of the corn belt.  The older method of bin drying is very expensive compared to continuous flow designed dryers.  One thing that has changed corn production is how the seed corn companies have bred the corn to dry more in the field so it is common to start harvest at 20% moisture and end up bringing in 15% right from the field in a normal season.  The most perfect corn in my experience is to bring your wagon right into the field and have the combine operator drop it into your wagon. Way better quality as very little handling is done so you see hardly and cracked kernel's. The drier the corn the more cracked corn you will have as it is brittle.


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## Bioburner (Dec 23, 2014)

Very brittle when dry. I can often use my finger nail to crack the corn I dried down to under 10%. Year before last farmers were being docked as the corn was coming out of the field at 10% Had to really sift out the fines as the Bixby will blow out fines and make a mess or leave it in the hopper because the stove uses a feed wheel. Plus side the pheasants and horse had good food.


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## rona (Dec 23, 2014)

Yeah the fines can cause a problem with the wheel. I usually let the fuel in the hopper get down and swirl or mix up the fines with the corn and sometimes that delays things but the book says clean the hopper as needed.  I  had one fellow from Kansas call me one night and he was having trouble not getting a good flame. He had it turned up all the way but a anemic flame. He had his Bixby for 3 years and never had trouble so never removed the wheel. Sure was happy when he did.


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## Arti (Dec 23, 2014)

I buy year old corn from local farms. One farmer we deal with has exceptionally clean corn and very fair to deal with. I don't know the moisture content because my tester only goes down to 10%  the meter would move off the peg a little bit so guessing 9 to 10% moisture this year. I have a small fan that blows the chaff out when we move the corn mainly because we don't want it in the house.
I mix a bit of pellets and a handful or oyster shells in the corn it seems to make the clinker a bit easier to deal with.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 24, 2014)

rona said:


> Different areas use different methods of drying corn.  Drying from bottom up has pretty much disappeared except for the air dry systems that don't use heat. All the grain elevators and most larger farmers use a separate continuous flow dryer whereby you drop the wet corn on top and it continuously flows down until it gets to the bottom where it is augured into a leg that drops it into a large bin or silo where it is cooled down to 15.5%.  This is the way it is done in Minn and most of the corn belt.  The older method of bin drying is very expensive compared to continuous flow designed dryers.  One thing that has changed corn production is how the seed corn companies have bred the corn to dry more in the field so it is common to start harvest at 20% moisture and end up bringing in 15% right from the field in a normal season.  The most perfect corn in my experience is to bring your wagon right into the field and have the combine operator drop it into your wagon. Way better quality as very little handling is done so you see hardly and cracked kernel's. The drier the corn the more cracked corn you will have as it is brittle.


 
Around here, only the biggest ops use continuous flow, everyone else is bottom  up, including our co-op that stores in precast concrete bins.  Conversely, thios wasn't a normal season, at least here with corn coming off well over 20.  We had a couple tank fires with ops sitting on wet corn playing the waiting game...and loosing of course.  Spontaneous combustion over 15 is always an issue, over 20 is as sure as the dawm.

Thie is more of a produce growing region that corn.  Here, it's 'maters and melons on black loam.


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## rona (Dec 24, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Around here, only the biggest ops use continuous flow, everyone else is bottom  up, including our co-op that stores in precast concrete bins.  Conversely, thios wasn't a normal season, at least here with corn coming off well over 20.  We had a couple tank fires with ops sitting on wet corn playing the waiting game...and loosing of course.  Spontaneous combustion over 15 is always an issue, over 20 is as sure as the dawm.
> 
> Thie is more of a produce growing region that corn.  Here, it's 'maters and melons on black loam.





SidecarFlip said:


> Around here, only the biggest ops use continuous flow, everyone else is bottom  up, including our co-op that stores in precast concrete bins.  Conversely, thios wasn't a normal season, at least here with corn coming off well over 20.  We had a couple tank fires with ops sitting on wet corn playing the waiting game...and loosing of course.  Spontaneous combustion over 15 is always an issue, over 20 is as sure as the dawm.
> 
> Thie is more of a produce growing region that corn.  Here, it's 'maters and melons on black loam.



 My experience with bottom up bin drying is  that when you force heat in from the bottom the moisture in the corn at the botton of the bin has to migrate up through the corn above it and out the top of the bin. This creates a moisture wall that has to be pushed to the top. That moisture wall gets harder to push as it is gaining moisture as it rises through the corn. This is why the corn on the bottom of the bin is over dried.  In order to overcome that problem companies produced a device that had augers that would bring up dry corn to the top and the wetter corn would drop down to be dried. It also provided airways so the moisture had a place to rise to evaporate outside the bin. When this moisture hit the metal roof it would condense and follow the roof line toward the edges of the roof where it fell off. 
  In many cases we put 21% corn in bins and simply run the fans which push air from the bottom through the corn to the top and out the vents on the bin roof. When winters low temps hit we freeze the corn by running the fans then shut everything off until spring when we start the fans and thaw out the corn and finish drying down to 15 1/2 moisture.  If you monitor these bins and use the fans as needed you can keep corn  for over three years or longer but you have to pay attention to the bins crawling in the top and checking for hot spots or crusting once a month or you will have problems.   We  are corn /beans mainly but some alfalfa for a large dairy nearby and a little wheat is raised.  Once in a while sunflowers is raised but mainly corn and beans.  We have two large ethanol plants  nearby that use a lot of the corn but some goes on unit trains to the west coast for export.


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 24, 2014)

Thats why I always get old crop corn from my co-op.  It's bottom up dried.  Far as e-plants go, I'm 4 miles from one and every farmer contracted to specific variety e-corn is loosing their shirt.

I don't want to go into e-corn on this forum.  Actually, I don't care about it except to say that my next tractors will most likely come from farmers that are over extended.


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## harttj (Dec 24, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> Maybe someday this forum will acknowledge that corn burners are a viable segment here and initiate a a forum for corn with an information base, but for now, just just catalog the data......



Corn burners had a forum for awhile and I believe you were a member also for awhile. Lots of good data gone. $7 corn killed the appliances. My boiler literature doesn't even mention corn anymore. 

We will have to see if corn stays below $4 and oil doesn't stay low. Propain locally hasn't dropped. Still over $2 when I called a month ago. 

If pellet prices stay as high as they are the pellet appliances will go the way the corn appliances did. I don't want to think about burning pellets at $279. 

Tim


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 24, 2014)

harttj said:


> *Corn burners had a forum for awhile and I believe you were a member also for awhile.* Lots of good data gone. $7 corn killed the appliances. My boiler literature doesn't even mention corn anymore.
> 
> We will have to see if corn stays below $4 and oil doesn't stay low. Propain locally hasn't dropped. Still over $2 when I called a month ago.
> 
> ...


 
I was (for a long time).  So were a number of other posters on here right now.  IBC is gone far as I can ascertain.  Oil is a bubble that will burst and pellets will increase.  I can do -4 corn real easily anytime, -3.5 is even better.  I was burning corn before 90% of people on here even knew what a corn stove/multifuel stove was.

I'm glad I don't live in the NE where corn is a rare commodity.  It's not here.


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## rona (Dec 25, 2014)

harttj said:


> Corn burners had a forum for awhile and I believe you were a member also for awhile. Lots of good data gone. $7 corn killed the appliances. My boiler literature doesn't even mention corn anymore.
> 
> We will have to see if corn stays below $4 and oil doesn't stay low. Propain locally hasn't dropped. Still over $2 when I called a month ago.
> 
> ...


7.00 corn killed a lot of things plus raised land taxes, machinery prices, fertilizer prices, herbicide prices. But it did have some short term benefits such as paying down debt load.  I seen a lot of new farm shops put up that were better equipped then many dealer shops. The downside was some of these people never did repair work but was simply keeping up with the Joneses. 
 The volatile grain markets plus the wild petroleum prices both did in a lot of the stove companies.  If you look back to 2004 and go from then to now you will see several feast to famine situations.  Dirt cheap corn encouraged corn stoves and dealers were making a profit then there was a shortage of stoves which drove up demand with people calling dealers from all over to find a stove. Those dealers noted that call and added it to their orders resulting in doubling their orders to the factory, The factory doubled production then gas went down corn went up and the bottom dropped out of the stove market. Some stove companies sold direct to customers on E-bay while other shipped their surplus over seas rather then drop the price to the US customers.  Companies that sold direct to people on E-bay screwed over the local dealers who quit selling that brand. Couldn't blame then either. But didn't care for the idea of a company selling their surplus stoves overseas at a huge loss rather then give the US  customer the break.
  Anybody else notice prices on anything dropping because of lower fuel prices? I haven't either but remember when prices were being raised blaming high fuel prices.
  At this point I don't see many people making money on 4.00 corn unless they are getting 200 bpa.  The input costs have to drop before that happens.
  Look at cost of pellets most of the raw material is waste products how do they command 5 or even 6.00 a bag at some locations?


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 25, 2014)

One issue I see being played out around here is farmers, instead of investing the profits from 7 buck corn, invested in new equipment and payment books.  The input costs aren't dropping, especially for N. and seed.  Farners with the 'latest and greatest' are going to be in for a rude awakening, the payment books don't drop with the corn price....

Secondly, with the roll in of Tier 4 final emissions mandates, farmers are very wary of tractors (or any mechanized equipment with a blue fuel cap and very well should be.  If a piece of equipment goes down in the field, gone are the days of 'fixing' it with a wrench and hammer.  It has to be hooked into a computer to just diagnose the issue.  Probably why JD and all the other manufacturers are predicting at least a 25% downturn in equipment sales.  Equipment prices are stupid in my view.  I bought a new NH round bailer last fall (computerized in as much as manually controlled machines are antiques).  25 grand for a bailer that I paid 12 grand for, 10 years ago and 12 grand was a bit much, but I can't build one so it is, what it is.

I considered a new Tier 4 tractor for about a minute but I know what the Tier 4 mandates have done to on road engines and the issues involved.  For a Cummins ISXC engine, just cleaning the urea injection unit costs over$1000.00 and cannot be done in the field.  In the futiure, you'll see a marked movement away from conventional diesel fueled engines and gaining popularity toward NG engines because a 4 stroke 'diesel' running on NG eliminates 95% of the mandates emissions hardware, problem is, the infrastructure has to catch up th real world application and all the 'hoopla' that mauufacturers are spewing about Tier 4 engines being more fuel efficient, is just that, phooey.  Tier 4 engines are less efficient and more (much more) complex, plus the engine life is much less. due to increased heat.  You cannot get an extended warranty on a Tier 4 engine, manufacturers know they won't last.

So, while 3-4 buck corn is good for corn burners, it's bad for farmers....and especially bad for e-corn growers, but thats another subject entirely.

Far as pellet prices, it's a typical business model, that is, sell for what the market will bear.  Typical consumer pricing is usually a couple hundred percent over cost to produce and that applies to everything, not just pellets.  Pellet manufacture is very mechanical and fuel costly even though the 'raw materials' are basically worthless.  Using my 'couple hundred percent' yardstick, pellet manufacturing cost is most likely around 50 cents a bag, factoring in everything except transportation.  Everything else is profit and always remember that everytime a bag changes hands, the price of admission increases, everyone has to have a slice of the pie, whereas corn only changes hands one, maybe 2 times and corn isn't a manufactured product, it's grown.  Sure, dryer gas costs and transportation costs are factored in, but Istill prefer corn over wood fibers but not everyone can roast corn.

When I bought this stove, my prime directive was purchasing a stove that was a flexible fuel unit so I could burn a number of fuels, depending on price and availability, something that I'm comfortable I did.  Why lock yourself into a single fuel unit, variety is what makes a biofuel stove a good investment...

I believe you'll see a resurgence in corn burning, so long as the fuel stays at a reasonable price and watching the market like I do, I'd say thats a safe bet.

Obviously, corn isn't readily available in the north east, but, corn can be packaged just like wood pellets, palletized and sold.  Some enterprising individual or company will capitalize on that (for areas that corn availability is poor), I'm confident of that as well.  Might just be me........

If pellets increase in price, it will raise the break point of field corn as well.  At present, IMO, corn below $4.00/bu/52% or better TW is very competitive with pro9cessed wood pellets, anywhere.


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## rona (Dec 25, 2014)

SidecarFlip said:


> One issue I see being played out around here is farmers, instead of investing the profits from 7 buck corn, invested in new equipment and payment books.  The input costs aren't dropping, especially for N. and seed.  Farners with the 'latest and greatest' are going to be in for a rude awakening, the payment books don't drop with the corn price....
> 
> Secondly, with the roll in of Tier 4 final emissions mandates, farmers are very wary of tractors (or any mechanized equipment with a blue fuel cap and very well should be.  If a piece of equipment goes down in the field, gone are the days of 'fixing' it with a wrench and hammer.  It has to be hooked into a computer to just diagnose the issue.  Probably why JD and all the other manufacturers are predicting at least a 25% downturn in equipment sales.  Equipment prices are stupid in my view.  I bought a new NH round bailer last fall (computerized in as much as manually controlled machines are antiques).  25 grand for a bailer that I paid 12 grand for, 10 years ago and 12 grand was a bit much, but I can't build one so it is, what it is.
> 
> ...


What would be the point of pelletizing corn? it would increase the price and in my opinion lower the quality. Using a five gallon pail weigh a pail of pellets then weigh a pail of shelled corn. You will see the shelled corn is heavier as it can fill voids that pellets can't. This will increase the cost of shipping.
   I really can't see the price of pellets influencing  the price of corn either unless you have a dealer who has a captive customer base and is taking advantage of people by pricing his corn himself.  Corn is raised in Maine and I believe in New York also but not in large volumes as they use it for feed.
  There was a individual close to Minneapolis and St Paul who delivered bulk corn and also sold a mix of corn and pellets but he may have quit when corn went up in price. He used to be pretty steady in I Burn Corn also.


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## Bioburner (Dec 25, 2014)

Ron, I believe he said palletized, not pelletized
The individual than blended pellets and corn is advertising on CL
Delaware had corn with the highest bushels per acre this year. Around 300


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## SidecarFlip (Dec 25, 2014)

I did.....

Corn could be sold in female friendly 40 pound bags, just like pellets are, on (pallets), shrink wrapped for your convenience.  All it takes is a bagging line.... and much less equipment (capital outlay) than a pelletizer. Even stores like Farm and Fleet and TSC could get on the bandwagon, eliminate the middleman and sell bagged -15 field corn for burning.  Lots if possibilities abound.

Transportation is based on hundredweight, not on displacement for the most part, unless it's bulky and then it's a truckload no matter what the weight is.

Corn and pellets can influence each other price wise as we saw in past years with corn going up, outta sight and corn stove manufacturers dropping like flies while pellets remained a viable source price wise, but they have been climbing slowly.  With the advent of the market correction on field corn, it will make corn an attractive fuel and will, most likely impact pellet prices (downward hopefully) as corn displaces straight pellets in multifuel stoves.  Actually, all stoves can burn a mix.  Some more than others.

However, we know that burning corn requires a different approach than pellets and in some cases, different equipment and different board programming.

It's been my experience that mixing various ratio's of medium to high test weight corn with even substandard pellets, yeilds a good to excellent heat output whereas burining substandard pellets dosen't.


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## ryanissamson (Jan 8, 2015)

Well, this thread has gotten way off topic, but I have enjoyed catching up and reading the info.

Unfortunately, my clinker problem seems to be fighting back. Where at first the hanger in the burn box was working like a charm, now when the clinker forms, I can't even pull the hanger out because the clinker is stuck to the box with a vengeance. Get this, when the fire inevitably goes out, the cooled clinker sticks to the burn and hardens so much that I have to use a hammer and chisel to get it out. A month ago, the clinker would come out with a few hits intact. Now I'm smashing it to pieces and it's as hard as concrete.  Some thoughts I have:


I've been sticking to a 12 hour schedule of cleaning the clinker out, I may check on it a bit sooner, maybe around 8-10 hours.
I'm storing the corn outside in tightly closed 55 gallon drums. It's in the single digits here, maybe it's getting moisture.
I'm not cleaning the corn before using it. I'm sort of getting frustrated with the upkeep, but maybe I need to be cleaning the corn before I use it.
I can't think of anything else. I'm going to try to bring a bucket of corn in the house to always have ready to get warm and maybe somewhat more dry.


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## rona (Jan 8, 2015)

ryanissamson said:


> Well, this thread has gotten way off topic, but I have enjoyed catching up and reading the info.
> 
> Unfortunately, my clinker problem seems to be fighting back. Where at first the hanger in the burn box was working like a charm, now when the clinker forms, I can't even pull the hanger out because the clinker is stuck to the box with a vengeance. Get this, when the fire inevitably goes out, the cooled clinker sticks to the burn and hardens so much that I have to use a hammer and chisel to get it out. A month ago, the clinker would come out with a few hits intact. Now I'm smashing it to pieces and it's as hard as concrete.  Some thoughts I have:
> 
> ...


 
Have you thought of burning a mix? When burning corn and the temp gets cold the clinker will get harder. The hard clinker can cause a jam when the auto dump works.  One recommendation was to bump up the feed rate. This did work but adding some pellets was easier with other benefits.


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## Bioburner (Jan 8, 2015)

Could try and rub in some graphite powder on the burn pot and shake some in for good measure. Available at most farm stores and implement dealers.


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## harttj (Jan 8, 2015)

From the old IBC forum I remember some users of clinker pots had 2 pots and would swap them out. Then soak the removed pot in water to dissolve. 

I have a stirrer so don't have first hand knowledge. 

Tim


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 8, 2015)

What I do is run 2 pots and pull the asgitator if, I run straight corm, which, I'm not and haven't been.  I've been running a 50-50 mix of Sommerset Hardwood pellets and 14% RM old crop field corn cleaned and screened for animal feed from the co-op and delivered to one of my grain tanks.

Moisture should not be an issue right now, I bet the ambent outdoor humidity is less than 10%, probably closer to 5% right now, with the cold weather.  It's desert dry outside this time of year.

If I do run 2 pots, I run a clinker hanger, pull one pot, drop in the other, dump off the burning top layer and drop the pulled pot complete in a bucket of water and let it sit a couple hours and the clinker, clinker hanger and crud fall right out.  No issue.

Go to a 50-50 mix and your clnkers will soften up appreciably.  Been running my agitator as well though it's perfectly fine to pull the agitator, I've just left mine in this year, too lazy to pull it I guess.

We all know that don't work for a Harman or a Bixby.  Neither have a  trough type pot.


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## rona (Jan 8, 2015)

mithesaint said:


> Do you have any pics or details of the dryer?  Corn is 1/2 the price of pellets here, but I can't find any lower than 15% moisture, and it's tough to get going sometimes, and doesn't always store perfectly.  I'd love to burn some 11% corn, but i'd have to dry it myself.


Get yourself a metal screened secretary waste can. I got one a couple from Walmart and they hold a couple gallons each. Set them on a chair or something to catch the hot air from the convection fan. You should get 11% in 12 hours or less. You get the added benefit of adding that 4% of moisture to your dry house air. lol  Never noticed a difference but it had to go somewhere.


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## SidecarFlip (Jan 8, 2015)

I can see another added benefit and that is the house smells like a grain tank and that ain't all that bad.  I just tested a batch of mine with the Delmhorst and it's showing 12.5% RM....thats right from the tank btw.


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## s12384j (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm new to the corn burning this year, but we actually have the same model stove, plus a snowflame that is almost the exact same thing as the amaizablaze 4100, we were having no problems with the clinkers in either stove until the last few days, been around 0 here, the only thing I've done differently is turn up the feedrate on the augers, and I think it was just a little too much, as I went back down to 4 last day or so and they have been coming out just fine again. Now, I don't know a lot about this but just a idea to look at for you to maybe narrow it down a little. I also didn't notice much difference in cleaning the corn verses not. Our corn is pretty dirty as it's left over from my grandparents farm, just what is left over in the grain bin (around 12% moisture and probably 8 or more years old)


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## Bioburner (Jan 9, 2015)

SidecarFlip said:


> I can see another added benefit and that is the house smells like a grain tank and that ain't all that bad.  I just tested a batch of mine with the Delmhorst and it's showing 12.5% RM....thats right from the tank btw.


I thought it smelled like one of the local ethanol plants or when we try and brew something.


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## denno (Jan 13, 2015)

I've come to the right place.

We got a corn furnace (Superior, from Ja-Ran) this winter.
It's now up and running.  We have heat.  And a host of questions.
Need to solve the clinker problem.  (A lot of info on that subject  in this thread, but I am sort of OCD so naturally I can think of more).

Basic questions and observations about the heat.  We had a 30+ yr old clunker of an oil-over-wood furnace that was disintegrating and fixing to burn the house down, but man did it burn hot.
First observation is that the primordial pleasure of standing over the register and basking does not seem to be part of the new furnace.  Air coming up is just semi-warm. 
QUESTION #1  is that the nature of a corn furnace?
--->  We had it pointed out that there were not enough, not well-strategically-located cold returns in this old retrofitted farmhouse, for max net heating.  We've added one, working on another.  (Have to dig out the crawlspace under the kitchen so  it can be crawled.  Watching Stalag 17, etc. for inspiration.  Seems some improvement.
OBSERVATION:  For a couple days recently the vented air seemed warmer.  This was after I cleaned the clinkers offa the burn pot jets and mixed some oyster shell into the corn..  Then it reverted.  For awhile last night it warmed up again.  Can't figure out the science of this.

OBSERVATION:   With that old monster furnace we were lulled into thinking this old house was pretty tight.  Now that we are dealing with steadier but cooler heating, we find it is not  Much weatherstripping and some insulating to do.  Fair enuf.
We have a parlor wood stove to get us toastier at least downstairs.  Putting fans in two passive registers to draw more heat upstairs where we depend mostly on warmth coming up a good- sized staircase; use some elec up there.  There  is an active register in the bathroom, tho not, as I say, as warm as before.

Those things said, we are going through 3-5 bags of corn a day, depending on temperature --- of which we've had rather little for the past several weeks and no great relief in sight. 
This is not as advertized. 

Now, I am learning that corn heat is not effortless.  We had the notion that you put 25 bags into the hopper and went upstairs for two weeks, adjusting only the thermostat in the dining room.
Don't b'leeve  the first round of online research goes into the facts being discussed in this thread.  Just, "clean, cheap, sustaining...."
Nonetheless, this is okay too.  The wood clunker was so old and leaky it could not be damped down overnight---had to get up twice to feed it.  And handling wood is scarcely effortless.  This will be an improvement when we get it understood and under control.  So I fervently hope!

So i guess QUESTION #2  is, is this thing working right?  Whatever happened to "A bushel of corn will heat the average house for a day"?  And "A bushel of corn produces a cup of ashes"?
Let's discuss residue.  There's a fair amount of whitish clinker.  There's not a whole lot of white powdery ash, though that is what gets deposited on the walls of the burn chamber, which I am told is correct---burning hot enough.  There's a whole lot of black residue.  Some is or can be mashed between the fingers into pretty fine grain or powder.  Some remains hard.  I mean, the mass of it has the appearance of burned chunks the size of corn grains, but can be crunched down to sand or dust.  Some of it can't be so mashed.  Not exactly unburned grains, but really not reducing to naught.
Should it be?  I can provide pix if it helps analysis.
Is there something here that means the feed should be slower and the combustion more complete?  [There isn't any augur control, but I can put in a rheostat, unless that would screw up the motor].

NEXT:  Corn itself.  First, I'm having a hard time finding many suppliers.  Corn is indeed grown in this agricultural valley, but there's about one guy who grows, cleans, dries his own.  $7 a bag, I suppose less in bulk.  [Bulk is going to take some arranging.  Doubt that She Who Must Be Obeyed wants a gravity trailer permanently parked by the front door where the basement chute for wood is.  Not so sure I do.  We can work on ways and means if it's worth it.]  Alternate is a small feed supply.  $5.75 a bag.  Supposedly they are both doing things right with the corn.  But at the latter place I see a lot of cob and stalk in there.  Neither is dusty.  Agway probably sells it too, haven't checked.  TSC sells pellets, dunno about corn---they don't advertize it.
This seems to be about the lot.
Fellow who sold us the stove and lives up Michigan or somewhere, as some of you do, is always railing at me that corn is 'way cheaper than that.  Is he reading the commodity pages, or are you up in the belt enjoying a better price?
AND:  I can only believe what they tell me about the moisture content.  Can try my fingernail or do I buy a moistureometer?
My basement is wet.  Weird groundwater situation.  We're at 2000 feet, but the well never goes dry, and the basement is always damp if not wet.  I think a much deeper sump might help.  We've talked about a heavy-duty dehumidifier.  Kind of an expense, as they cost to run and only last a few years.
The bin came with a lid 3/4" too short.  (This is a company of only a few people, and human error is not unthinkable).  They have promised me a new one, though I can probably do a little sawing, hammering, and welding and correct it myself.  I'm putting in corn so frequently I don't even keep the lid on.
QUESTION #3  Is it important (when the stuff is on hand so short a time) to keep the bin covered tightly?  Really, we're buying corn about twice a week.  Sometimes I leave it in the car in its made-in-Indonesia poly or fiberglass woven bags, sometimes stack it on a pallet in the basement, mostly it goes into the hopper and gets used, all in a few days or less.
Is any of this causing the corn to be too "wet?"  Would that be part of the problem?

This has to be enough for starters.  I look forward to your expert and experienced input.
What I'm going to try next is adding some pellets.  As is true with the oyster shell, though, the mixture is not going to be even. I put in a bag of corn, sprinkle some oyster shell over it, and stir a bit with a short shovel.  Best I can do under the circs.
I might try the coat hanger thing, though it's not apparent that it will be effective with a bottom-feed.  It's not the worst thing in the world to have to clean out the clinkers.  Not sure the oysters are doing much, actually.
Going to go back to the older farmer guy and see if there is better result with his corn.  And ask him some of these questions.

Looking forward to the conversation, TIA

denno


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## Watcher1 (Jan 13, 2015)

denno said:


> I've come to the right place.
> 
> We got a corn furnace (Superior, from Ja-Ran) this winter.
> It's now up and running.  We have heat.  And a host of questions.
> ...



Ok, so lots of reading to get to here. I burn corn except last year when it was so pricy then went to pellets. I run a 3500 countryside ad used to have a baby countryside. 1. Clinkers, the harder you run the stove the more often yu are going t have to remove that. I tried coat hanger but a 1/4 threaded or smooth rod works better lasts longer you just need an l shape that will lay in the bottom of the pot and set you can get it with pliers or glove. The clinker pot/ you need to scrape it down from time to time and while it's out and your doing that clean the holes/ drill bit small file whatever fits. 2 corn, unless you are buying bulk or low market price 5 bucks or less switch to pellets. Story on buying corn at a feed mill by the bag. So they augered it over to the mill, then they will auger it up into a bin that they can fill the bags out of, by the time that is all done you will have a bunch of broken kernels like I had that you will feed to chickens. You need to find a farmer with his own bin so he can auger fill direct to your container think gravity box or your pickup bed. 3. corn cleaning needs to be done if you want a lot less dust in your home... U-Tube has lots of ideas. I use one I made out of PVC pipe a screen a shop vac. ad a 30 gallon barrel you could get by without the barrel. Hope this helps.


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## ryanissamson (Jan 23, 2015)

Well, I just wanted to check back in real quick.

Thanks for everyone giving suggestions, I think I've finally won the fight with my stove. I had been trying hangers which worked 50% of the time, but sometimes the clinker just solidified too much and broke the hanger. I recorded a YouTube video to show what I finally figured out, but honestly, it is common sense now that I think about it.



Here's the steps from the video:

For those who have corn or pellet stoves, you may have found out that clinkers can be a bit of a nuisance. I had the hardest time figuring out how to get the clinker out of my Amaizablaze stove and finally have it figured out. The problem was that it is somewhat liquid when very hot and needs to solidify a bit to come out. If the fire dies and the clinker dies out entirely, then clinker cements to the stove box and is a pain to get out. So, here's what I do:

1. Allow the clinker to build up, but not enough to affect the burn.
2. Turn off the hopper feeder.
3. Use your tool to push the corn from one side of the box to the other. This isn't always necessary, sometimes it just pops right out. By moving the corn to one side of the box, the clinker can cool a bit and solidify.
4. My example came out a bit too easy, but if it's melted, take your tool and scrape along the side of the box and the clinker, separating it as it cools. Now you can wedge your tool in and try to pry it from that side.

5. If it still is stuck, don't worry! Move the corn to the opposite side and repeat step 4 on the opposite side, scraping along and separating all the way to the bottom. This might take some digging.

6. If for some reason it's still very stuck, try along the front of the box. That should do it. 

7. Discard the clinker outside of the box in this stove. My stove is finally burning nonstop. You'll still want to clean out your stove weekly and perform regular maintenance so that your stove doesn't fall into disrepair.​


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## denno (Jan 23, 2015)

OK, thanks for this reply and info.  I'm going to try repeating my questions in a new thread.


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## ryanissamson (Jan 23, 2015)

@denmo, yea, start a new thread. I think this one has gotten bloated enough and could probably be closed.


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