# Tree ID?



## Bacffin (Oct 4, 2012)

Here are a couple of pics for this log.  It is pretty heavy and dense and has a leathery tight grained bark.  Doesn't have any distinctive smell to it either. I think it is in the maple family, but not sure what type.  Then again, I could be totaly wrong being new to this. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Bruce


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 4, 2012)

I blew the pictures up and magnified them-looks more like Hickory to me from those pictures. Whack a piece in half and post the picture of the split grain please.


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## Bacffin (Oct 4, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> I blew the pictures up and magnified them-looks more like Hickory to me from those pictures. Whack a piece in half and post the picture of the split grain please.


 
Ok I will but I need to wait for the weekend though.  Thanks!


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## mywaynow (Oct 4, 2012)

White Oak?


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## rideau (Oct 4, 2012)

One close u of the bark would be better.  That looks lie really thin smooth bark to me...more like beech, but dark colored for beech, which is light grey.  No way it looks like my maple bark, which is quite thick.  Looks too smooth to be hickory...


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## Wood Duck (Oct 4, 2012)

I'll guess Hickory. The smooth bark and light wood with dark center remind me of Hickory, but something seems not quite right. It really reminds me of a very large Juneberry, but that would really be a very large specimen. What is the diameter of those rounds?


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## nrford (Oct 5, 2012)

Norway Maple


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## TimJ (Oct 5, 2012)

Norway Maple


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## hilbiliarkiboi (Oct 5, 2012)

No way hickory.


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## ScotO (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm thinking norway maple too....


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 5, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> I'm thinking norway maple too....


 

I think the bark is too "tight" as Norway Maple has more ridges to it-have one in my backyard and the ridges are deeper even on the smaller limbs but I could be off. Still sticking with Hickory as I've had some before that looks like that. Interested to see what it is!


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## ChrisNJ (Oct 5, 2012)

I would vote Norway Maple as well, looks just like those in my yard.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

You guys are silly Thats Tulip! Called it on his log pic to!

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/okay-dont-laugh-its-called-a-bad-back.91284/


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## Gasifier (Oct 5, 2012)

It's called firewood. I think. Maybe not.


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## Chopernator (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah its eh hard wood just place it with the other hardwoods.  It will burn.


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## nrford (Oct 5, 2012)

smokinj said:


> You guys are silly Thats Tulip! Called it on his log pic to!
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/okay-dont-laugh-its-called-a-bad-back.91284/


 
Said it was heavy and dense, Tulip is neither of those!


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

nrford said:


> Said it was heavy and dense, Tulip is neither of those!


 
Its got those funny strecth marks. Here another look at that log check out the big nice fluffy chips!


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 5, 2012)

Dang it. I could tell without blowing up the pictures and then while looking through the posts, I found nrford's post. He is quicker than I. First tip-off was that small heart.


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## nrford (Oct 5, 2012)

I will stick with Norway Maple. Tulip(Yellow Poplar) is neither dense nor heavy J.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

nrford said:


> I will stick with Norway Maple. Tulip(Yellow Poplar) is neither dense nor heavy J.


 

I have never seen maple with that weard strech marks, nor white fluffy chips. Fresh cut tulip is still heavy at that size. But I have been wrong before on Iding east coast.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 5, 2012)

It is quite possible there is none of it in your area Jay.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> It is quite possible there is none of it in your area Jay.


 

I never seen those type of marks on a maple before. So, I would say they would have to be very scarce to say the least. With those marks tell me its pretty quick growing and not norwhere as dense as sugar, hickory and so on.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 5, 2012)

That indeed is true. The grow extremely fast compared to what you have named.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> That indeed is true. The grow extremely fast compared to what you have named.


 
Heck even the saw chips says its not that dence. Even if that was a brand new chain!


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## Ehouse (Oct 5, 2012)

Tulip poplar leaves on those other logs;  Smokin' gun?

Ehouse


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## Bacffin (Oct 5, 2012)

O--My, You guys have been busy because of little ol' me! 

I scooted out of work early to split and get some close up's of this one (1 of a bunch coming), but you folks are way ahead of me. Wish I posted way back when I was lurking a year before joining. I thought I was getting to know a bunch of you, and you didn't know me, but I was so wrong! You all are just awesome....period. WoW, Thanks!

I am going with maple (no idea what type) after splitting this. Attached are the close-ups with the bark dry split. Is Norway Maple hard or soft?
I have another log I worked on today and will post that in another thread. (looks similar but bigger)

I am amazed and humbled at the knowledge here..Thank you! 

My Regards,
Bruce


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## Bacffin (Oct 5, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Heck even the saw chips says its not that dence. Even if that was a brand new chain!


 
Chain is old, but I sharpen often, just by eye in a vise.


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

That still looks like tulip for all the same reasons!


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## JOHN BOY (Oct 5, 2012)

Thats tulip poplar.


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## Bacffin (Oct 5, 2012)

smokinj said:


> That still looks like tulip for all the same reasons!


 
Moisture content reads 28-29 on the meter.  How fast does poplar season?  I will hold it out of the main pile for a year to see if it seasons faster than the harder woods just to see.


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## Bacffin (Oct 5, 2012)

smokinj said:


> That still looks like tulip for all the same reasons!


 
Any way I can help this debate?  I will run some through the table saw and sand it smooth if it helps!


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## smokinj (Oct 5, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> Moisture content reads 28-29 on the meter. How fast does poplar season? I will hold it out of the main pile for a year to see if it seasons faster than the harder woods just to see.


 

Pretty fast and just about the same btus as silver maple....18 per cord mim. wood.


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## Wood Duck (Oct 5, 2012)

I still don't see Tulip. That just doesn't look right for Tulip to my eye, but I don't have a good idea what it is. I agree that green Tulip can seem heavy and dense.


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## Wildo (Oct 6, 2012)

a beautiful fast growing nice young white oak about 38.2152 years old by my eye.


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

Wood Duck said:


> I still don't see Tulip. That just doesn't look right for Tulip to my eye, but I don't have a good idea what it is. I agree that green Tulip can seem heavy and dense.


 

Better save those pic's from the log all the way through and ever-one of them screams Tulip. Even the saw-dust screams tulip!


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 6, 2012)

Firstly thanks for posting such great pictures of the grain! Here's my take on it, for what it is worth: Are you sure that all the pieces of the splits are from the same tree-I'm sure they are but never hurts to ask. If it has a slight manure-like aroma to it I think it is some type of Hickory; if it has a bland "clean" aroma to it then it is some sort of Maple. I have had Hickory AND Maple that had that brown streak down the middle inside. Now please go smell them and tell us what it smells like lol!!

Jay, I just don't see Poplar-I agree the bark sort of resembles it, but all the Poplar I've ever had has a more yellowish-striped tint to the grain-I just don't see that but I could be wrong....


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Firstly thanks for posting such great pictures of the grain! Here's my take on it, for what it is worth: Are you sure that all the pieces of the splits are from the same tree-I'm sure they are but never hurts to ask. If it has a slight manure-like aroma to it I think it is some type of Hickory; if it has a bland "clean" aroma to it then it is some sort of Maple. I have had Hickory AND Maple that had that brown streak down the middle inside. Now please go smell them and tell us what it smells like lol!!
> 
> Jay, I just don't see Poplar-I agree the bark sort of resembles it, but all the Poplar I've ever had has a more yellowish-striped tint to the grain-I just don't see that but I could be wrong....


 

There are big diffrance's from poppy to tulip. There are alot of cabinets made using tulip and it is a hardwood (Indiana state tree.) Where you will see the color on the tulip is when the trunk is big enough and at that point it will look alot like ash. This tree is probally the second half of the log and the other half is at the mill! Here is a smaller piece of tulip! Strech marks..........


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## Wood Duck (Oct 6, 2012)

The pics of split rounds look like Tulip to me. J has it right - Tulip and poplar are not the same thing. Why they call it Tulip Poplar I don't know, maybe because it grows tall and straight like the true poplars which are aspen, cottonwood, and related trees. Tulip Poplar aka Yellow Poplar is a decent hardwood in my opinion.


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 6, 2012)

smokinj said:


> View attachment 76098
> View attachment 76098
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good pictures-but what about the insides? If you split a round from the wood on those sawbucks would it be smooth-white inside with a brown stripe through the middle like Bruce posted?


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

Wood Duck said:


> The pics of split rounds look like Tulip to me. J has it right - Tulip and poplar are not the same thing. Why they call it Tulip Poplar I don't know, maybe because it grows tall and straight like the true poplars which are aspen, cottonwood, and related trees. Tulip Poplar aka Yellow Poplar is a decent hardwood in my opinion.


 
There in the same family because they do grow quick and the newer growth looks some what like poppy, but the good wood is in the first 8-12 foot. My father has built over 50 pie safes with it and they look Awesome!


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Good pictures-but what about the insides? If you split a round from the wood on those sawbucks would it be smooth-white inside with a brown stripe through the middle like Bruce posted?


 
Yep! and saw dust to match.......


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> Any way I can help this debate? I will run some through the table saw and sand it smooth if it helps!


 
Not needed........But sounds like fun.


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## scotvl (Oct 6, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> O--My, You guys have been busy because of little ol' me!
> 
> I scooted out of work early to split and get some close up's of this one (1 of a bunch coming), but you folks are way ahead of me. Wish I posted way back when I was lurking a year before joining. I thought I was getting to know a bunch of you, and you didn't know me, but I was so wrong! You all are just awesome....period. WoW, Thanks!
> 
> ...


I agree that its some kind of maple it looks like some Ive gotten in the past but i don't think its norway. I think there are supposed to be many varieties of maple not just your standard sugar, silver, red and norway. Norway maple is a hard maple closer to sugar than silver, and has a bark that looks similar to ash on straighter logs. the bark on what you have looks like it could be a young norway but the heartwood looks closer to silver.
here's some picks of norway, the first one is some i got two months ago and the last two are of a 18 month old split, you can see how the grain and hardness are almost like sugar.


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## Brewmonster (Oct 6, 2012)

_There in the same family because they do grow quick and the newer growth looks some what like poppy, but the good wood is in the first 8-12 foot. My father has built over 50 pie safes with it and they look Awesome! _

Sorry, tulip poplar is in the magnolia family; aspens and true poplars are in the willow family. It's the curse of common names again. I don't understand why we call _Liriodendron tulipifera_ tulip poplar (or, even worse, yellow poplar). Maybe tulip tree would be better.


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

Brewmonster said:


> _There in the same family because they do grow quick and the newer growth looks some what like poppy, but the good wood is in the first 8-12 foot. My father has built over 50 pie safes with it and they look Awesome! _
> 
> Sorry, tulip poplar is in the magnolia family; aspens and true poplars are in the willow family. It's the curse of common names again. I don't understand why we call _Liriodendron tulipifera_ tulip poplar (or, even worse, yellow poplar). Maybe tulip tree would be better.


 

That is what we call it here to....lol


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 6, 2012)

Well I'm gonna "stir the pot" up again as this isn't sitting well with me; I just was right next door staring at my neighbor's Tulip Poplar and yes I KNOW that's what it is; then I stared at the bark on the rounds of Hickory I have in next years pile and again I know that's what it is and I can't believe that what is pictured is not Hickory...the bark on the Tulip next door has more deeper ridges in it, no size or part of that tree has the tight bark on it like the OP pictured, but the Hickory has supertight bark with those lines on it. And looking at the way that the grain has those little "strands" that you can grab and peel off are just like Hickory I've had in the past. Sorry guys and you may still prove me wrong but I still say that is Hickory.

Original poster, again what does it smell like? Hickory has a faint almost manure-like smell. Better yet take a piece of it to someone local who knows firewood and ask them what it is. And I STILL see some variances from picture-to-picture; are you sure that this is all from the same tree?

I wish I could get my hands on it and feel it and smell it as I'd know instantly what it is....


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Well I'm gonna "stir the pot" up again as this isn't sitting well with me; I just was right next door staring at my neighbor's Tulip Poplar and yes I KNOW that's what it is; then I stared at the bark on the rounds of Hickory I have in next years pile and again I know that's what it is and I can't believe that what is pictured is not Hickory...the bark on the Tulip next door has more deeper ridges in it, no size or part of that tree has the tight bark on it like the OP pictured, but the Hickory has supertight bark with those lines on it. And looking at the way that the grain has those little "strands" that you can grab and peel off are just like Hickory I've had in the past. Sorry guys and you may still prove me wrong but I still say that is Hickory.
> 
> Original poster, again what does it smell like? Hickory has a faint almost manure-like smell. Better yet take a piece of it to someone local who knows firewood and ask them what it is. And I STILL see some variances from picture-to-picture; are you sure that this is all from the same tree?
> 
> I wish I could get my hands on it and feel it and smell it as I'd know instantly what it is....


 

You should read through the post.......Yes tulip ant the trunk will have ridge much like ash. New growth has slick like bark with stretch marks. Lots of this comes down to cutting alot of it.......


Newer growth tulip! second OP tulip!


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 6, 2012)

smokinj said:


> You should read through the post.......Yes tulip ant the trunk will have ridge much like ash. New growth has slick like bark with stretch marks. Lots of this comes down to cutting alot of it.......
> 
> 
> Newer growth tulip! second OP tulip!
> ...


 

I see what you are saying about the bark-can you or anyone else post a picture of the grain inside of Tulip so I can compare it to the OP's pictures? I'm sorry but I look at the grain inside and it looks like Hickory to me; in fact, it really doesn't look a heck of a lot different than the one that we know is Shagbark in his post "3rd tree ID-I think I got one". It has the same grain and the brown stripe down the center.

Sorry J, not buttin' heads with ya but I guess I'll have to see a picture on the inside of Tulip before I give it up!


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## smokinj (Oct 6, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> I see what you are saying about the bark-can you or anyone else post a picture of the grain inside of Tulip so I can compare it to the OP's pictures? I'm sorry but I look at the grain inside and it looks like Hickory to me; in fact, it really doesn't look a heck of a lot different than the one that we know is Shagbark in his post "3rd tree ID-I think I got one". It has the same grain and the brown stripe down the center.
> 
> Sorry J, not buttin' heads with ya but I guess I'll have to see a picture on the inside of Tulip before I give it up!


 

lol no problem I have been on a saw since I was 12. Thats a long time.... In no way in *ell can you throw great big white snow flakes from any other tree than a tulip. Now if that was hickory I could not throw chips like that on any hickory tree. Not even with a ported 880 with NOS and a 21 inch bar sporting a brand new old school rs! And a racing chain. Just saying. Now with the pics all says the same thing. Hickory does not get stretch marks from growing to fast.


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## rideau (Oct 7, 2012)

Brewmonster said:


> _There in the same family because they do grow quick and the newer growth looks some what like poppy, but the good wood is in the first 8-12 foot. My father has built over 50 pie safes with it and they look Awesome! _
> 
> Sorry, tulip poplar is in the magnolia family; aspens and true poplars are in the willow family. It's the curse of common names again. I don't understand why we call _Liriodendron tulipifera_ tulip poplar (or, even worse, yellow poplar). Maybe tulip tree would be better.


 
I've always heard it called tulip tree.

A bird seeded one into my vegetable garden in Southern Ontario...really rare here.  I haven't had the heart to cut it, and now I have a problem....a 40 foot high tree in my vegetable garden and no sun....

Incidentally, I have read that tulip tree wood takes on different color depending on the minerals in the soil where it grows.  If this is so, it may be yellowish for one person, totally different for another.  The bark looks like my tulip tree, as do the leaves, i think...they aren't too clear to me, but if there are leaves there, there is no mistaking the tree.  The leaves look like a childs drawing of  tulip, hence its name.  Tulip tree grows to 120 feet...a lot taller than other hardwoods. 

I'm worried about lightning in the future with mine, and will probably take it down...only probably, because I have a lot of trouble killing trees.    It's not only taking my garden's sunlight, but it also is near my house...too close for comfort if and when it significantly outgrows my other trees and is a mast head.  Other than the garden, the woods essentially come right to the house.  To the south on the garden side I have one maple about ten feet from the house, but the woods proper are about 75 feet from the house (base of trunks).


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## mtneer (Oct 7, 2012)

Is tulip tree bark really that thick? I processed a tree last year with bark identical to OP's. The leaves on it were compound.

Anyway, throw it in the stove in a year and you'll know if it was tulip or hickory.


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## Bacffin (Oct 7, 2012)

nrford said:


> Norway Maple


 
I don't see any of the faint cross grains in the splits that maple has. Does this species not have that?

Thanks,
Bruce


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## ScotO (Oct 7, 2012)

I don't think that's tulip, but I've been wrong before.  It kinda looks like a young tulip, one way to tell is tulip and popple (poplar) has a distinct smell to it (hard to describe, it's different than other wood).

Here's some pics of the tulip I cut and milled this summer:


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## Bacffin (Oct 7, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Well I'm gonna "stir the pot" up again as this isn't sitting well with me; I just was right next door staring at my neighbor's Tulip Poplar and yes I KNOW that's what it is; then I stared at the bark on the rounds of Hickory I have in next years pile and again I know that's what it is and I can't believe that what is pictured is not Hickory...the bark on the Tulip next door has more deeper ridges in it, no size or part of that tree has the tight bark on it like the OP pictured, but the Hickory has supertight bark with those lines on it. And looking at the way that the grain has those little "strands" that you can grab and peel off are just like Hickory I've had in the past. Sorry guys and you may still prove me wrong but I still say that is Hickory.
> 
> Original poster, again what does it smell like? Hickory has a faint almost manure-like smell. Better yet take a piece of it to someone local who knows firewood and ask them what it is. And I STILL see some variances from picture-to-picture; are you sure that this is all from the same tree?
> 
> I wish I could get my hands on it and feel it and smell it as I'd know instantly what it is....


 
Some one needs to create smell-a-vision . 
It has a faint aroma.  Not offensive at all and this is all from the same log.  I have a buddy coming over who should be able to shed some more light on the issue. 

Thanks for the input!


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## Bacffin (Oct 7, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> I don't think that's tulip, but I've been wrong before. It kinda looks like a young tulip, one way to tell is tulip and popple (poplar) has a distinct smell to it (hard to describe, it's different than other wood).


 
Scotty, thanks for the info. Nice rig you got there


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## WOODBUTCHER (Oct 7, 2012)

The growth rings look wide, and the bark looks way too thick for Hickory.
I'll rule out both Hickory and defiantly the maple species.
I do see a good sized Shagbark Trunk, some oak and maybe some ash in your pile..... Good stuff.

I just lugged out big Poplar rounds out of woods yesterday and they were heavy and the suckers felt dense.
My 5100s was rooster tailing big fluffy "hamster" shavings....
Once the rounds are split and dry they'll feel like pine......
I've never run Tulip through my splitter...... so you bark pics sparks my curiosity.

Buck up some of the Shagbark in your pile and split it, look at the growth rings. Natures Concrete.

Woodbutcher


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## Bacffin (Oct 7, 2012)

WOODBUTCHER said:


> The growth rings look wide, and the bark looks way too thick for Hickory.
> I'll rule out both Hickory and defiantly the maple species.
> I do see a good sized Shagbark Trunk, some oak and maybe some ash in your pile..... Good stuff.
> 
> ...


 
Already bucked some...here  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/log-3-id-i-think-i-got-this-one.91416/


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 7, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> I have a buddy coming over who should be able to shed some more light on the issue.


 
Please make sure to let us know what he says about it-this is very interesting....


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## Bacffin (Oct 7, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Please make sure to let us know what he says about it-this is very interesting....


 
Ok, he couldn't make it over today.  He has been in the field one way or another all his life.


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 8, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> O--My, You guys have been busy because of little ol' me!
> 
> I scooted out of work early to split and get some close up's of this one (1 of a bunch coming), but you folks are way ahead of me. Wish I posted way back when I was lurking a year before joining. I thought I was getting to know a bunch of you, and you didn't know me, but I was so wrong! You all are just awesome....period. WoW, Thanks!
> 
> ...


 

I'm looking at this on my work computer-the other times were at the home one, and I see a color variation from picture #3 which looks very yellow grained as opposed to pictures 4 and 5 in which the grain looks very white. Is that just lighting causing that shading do you think? Picture # 3 DOES look like Poplar but 4 and 5 still look too "white" to me.


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## Bacffin (Oct 8, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> I'm looking at this on my work computer-the other times were at the home one, and I see a color variation from picture #3 which looks very yellow grained as opposed to pictures 4 and 5 in which the grain looks very white. Is that just lighting causing that shading do you think? Picture # 3 DOES look like Poplar but 4 and 5 still look too "white" to me.


 
The sun was in and out that day and might be playing tricks with pictures.  I can take  more.


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 15, 2012)

Hey Bruce,

Did your buddy ever come over and give his one a posiitive ID??

Just curious....


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## Bacffin (Oct 15, 2012)

PA. Woodsman said:


> Hey Bruce,
> 
> Did your buddy ever come over and give his one a posiitive ID??
> 
> Just curious....


 
No not yet Woodsman.  I'll have to change what I have in the beer fridge I guess.  That'll work


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Oct 16, 2012)

hickory for sure


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## PA. Woodsman (Oct 17, 2012)

husky345 vermont resolute said:


> hickory for sure


 That's what I've been saying since the start. There's no way in my mind that I can look at the pictures of those half-splits in post #26 and see anything BUT Hickory...the OP is supposed to be getting someone to come and ID them that knows wood but we'll have to see if that ever happens.

I guess we'll have to ask him to pick the splits up a few months from now-if they are light as a feather it's Tulip Poplar if they're heavy like a rock they're Hickory....


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## Bacffin (Nov 8, 2012)

My buddy is going with young Norway Maple.  http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2008/07/03/norway-maple-tree/  The logs are heavy.  He does not see it being tulip, but he is not 100% sure.  Either way it is hard.


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## nrford (Nov 9, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> My buddy is going with young Norway Maple. http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2008/07/03/norway-maple-tree/ The logs are heavy. He does not see it being tulip, but he is not 100% sure. Either way it is hard.


 
 Thank You for the confirmation. Looks like I had it right from the start!


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## Blue Vomit (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm getting in this late and stirring up the pot but I can't help it. 
That looks exactly like many bitternut hickory I have cut in the past.
Stringy, heavy splits, bark looks right.
Just sayin.
http://www.cirrusimage.com/trees_Juglandaceae.htm


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## Bacffin (Nov 26, 2012)

IT"S HICKORY 

I split up the other 6 logs of shagbark hickory from the grapple load to get familiar with the color, smell and workablity then went to this log.
It has the same color and smell as the shagbark. I knew right away. The only thing different, it was the toughest of the bunch to split. Real narly and stringy.
Gave me a whoopin'.

Thanks again everyone for you help. This one was fun to follow through.

~Bruce


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## PA. Woodsman (Nov 26, 2012)

Bacffin said:


> IT"S HICKORY
> 
> I split up the other 6 logs of shagbark hickory from the grapple load to get familiar with the color, smell and workablity then went to this log.
> It has the same color and smell as the shagbark. I knew right away. The only thing different, it was the toughest of the bunch to split. Real narly and stringy.
> ...


 

Okay, go back and read what post # 2 says and send me my prize-what did I win lol 

I just knew there was no bleepin' way that was Poplar....


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## ansehnlich1 (Nov 26, 2012)

I was gonna say hickory from the git go but wanted you guys to have some fun figurin' it all out


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