# Rattle Rattle Buzz Rattle ...  Quadrafire Castille insert



## G00k (Nov 10, 2010)

Hey  friends,

I had a tech come out after my first season to clean, inspect and evaluate how well I had maintained the new stove.  I didn't know what to expect, but aside from my pulling the surround off and his vacuuming what he could reach, I wasn't very impressed.  He said after one season, it would need much care.  I thought it would extend out so it could be inspected and worked on (Newbie that I was).  

I asked what could be done about all the noise it makes - since there are several fans all going at once and harmonically beating their noises against one another, plus the internal plates buzzing and the sheet metal parts rattling against the decorative outer shell parts.  He said they're all like that, and gave me some scraps of heat resistant rubber-like stuff to wedge here and there.

Do you guys have more tips and tricks to quiet this beast?

(I have been using aluminum foil folded up to make wedges for inside the fire box, but they eventually vibrated out again.)


Thanks for your thoughts,

G00k


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 11, 2010)

I'd get his sorry butt back out there and fix the rattles!  Mine doesn't rattle at all.  Of course, after saying that, when it comes on tonight, it will rattle like heck!  They DON'T all do that!  Sounds like one of the blowers is really out of balance or something is hung up on it.  Dirt daubers build a nest in there?


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## G00k (Nov 11, 2010)

A little too late to get him back about noise when the systems work fine.  And any time there are rotating parts there's going to be a tendency to vibrate.  I just read the post about the mercedes of pellet stoves.  I guess if I could have afforded better than a datsun, I would have done so.  But if I pack the seams with aluminum foil and dampen some of the sheet metal outside of the heated areas, it's livable.  Why I didn't come to the forums first and do my research, I'll never know.  I consider this my "beginner's" or "learner's" pellet stove.  No insult to yours.  Maybe you did the install yourself?  I certainly didn't. 

Anyway, if anyone's found some nifty sound deadening solutions, I'd be glad to hear them.


Stay warm,


G00k


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## ablejoy (Nov 11, 2010)

I use Velcro on my sheet metal panels that vibrate works almost all season.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 11, 2010)

I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!  I wrote my answer above, hit the send button, and, honest to God, my wife walked in and said the Sante Fe was making a vibrating noise  No lie.   My luck just plain sucks.  I do like the idea about the velcro.  When it cools down, I'll give it a try.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 11, 2010)

G00k said:
			
		

> .  I consider this my "beginner's" or "learner's" pellet stove.  No insult to yours.  Maybe you did the install yourself?  I certainly didn't.
> 
> G00k


No, I paid through the nose for the installs.  Both inserts with flex up the chimneys.  Too old and too smart to go climbing on steep pitched roofs.  I wouldn't call them beginner's stoves although I have 'learned' a lot from them.  I think ALL of the brands are represented here with people wanting help so no one is immune from problems when there are electronics and mechanical mechanisms involved.


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## ablejoy (Nov 11, 2010)

I use the Velcro with sticky backing


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 11, 2010)

Someone with a sheet metal brake could turn this into a small business.  Bend thin galvanized metal in a __/__ shape and put two sided tape on the flat sides.  Stick that to any vibrating panel and it will not vibrate anymore.  Offer in a couple of lengths.  I'll buy a couple!


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## G00k (Nov 13, 2010)

Thanks, AZ, 

The velcro sounds like a real winner.  I'll try that.

Sorry to hear that you're hearing it too, TJ.  My bro-in-law is a machinist who might be able to do up some of those strips you mentioned for a test.  The decorative cast iron outer walls buzz also - it seems every part of the stove has some musical bent.

Mainly, my greatest sources of noise are within the fire enclosure:  the two brick patterned plates on either side of the chute buzz when I'm cleaning the stove and the exhaust fan is running.  The plate at the top (hiding the blower tubes) rattles too.  They're just tabs sitting in slots and aren't fitted tightly.  That's where I use aluminum foil that I fold over and over into a wedge, and jam into the seam spaces.  Sometimes I can get the stuff pretty tight, but usually after a few days they start to work out and begin to buzz again.

I'm starting to think of using screws in the seams to tighten it up - looks be durned!  

Also, I failed to mention that I usually have the unit on "high".  It's much quieter on medium or low - I just take up the noise-slack shivering.  (121 year old schoolhouse - not the tightest structure).  

Stay warm!


G00k


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## Countryboymo (Nov 13, 2010)

There are products for the car stereo aftermarket and the limo and van places that use noise deadening products one of which is dynamat.  I think some are heat resistant also and would make a world of difference.  One other product that comes to mind is bedliner that is very noise deadening.  The dynamat products are stick on and would be a lot easier to work with but the heat rated is available but expensive.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 13, 2010)

G00k said:
			
		

> Thanks, AZ,
> 
> The velcro sounds like a real winner.  I'll try that.
> 
> Sorry to hear that you're hearing it too, TJ.  My bro-in-law is a machinist who might be able to do up some of those strips you mentioned for a test.  The decorative cast iron outer walls buzz also - it seems every part of the stove has some musical bent.



Yea, now that I am tuned into the noises ( , I noticed that my back cast plates tend to rattle too as well as the top cover you mentioned.  For me it's not much of a problem.  I just turn off my hearing aid and I can't hear a thing!  Of course, I can SEE the looks on my wife's face!   She says 'Fix that' and I say 'What?'....  

I know the _/_ plates would work to strengthen the outer sheet metal pieces.  I have some 24 gauge galvanized metal in my shop.  I'll have to cobble something up and give it a go.  As far as the firebox stuff rattling, maybe bedding them in a refractory cement might take up the slop.  I saw some in a tube when I was getting a tubing of high temp silicone.


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## Meneillys (Nov 14, 2010)

My Castille FS used to make some rattles so I took at it with some sheet metal pliers and bent things all which way until it stopped. Easiest one was the heat shield above the heat tubes it rattled against the top cover and was very loud. My stove is nice and now quiet except for the loud bass below I get if I forget to empty the burn pot daily sounds like a didgeridoo and always happens at night waking me up. Any ideas how to stop that besides emptying the pot daily?


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## Nicholas440 (Nov 14, 2010)

When I first got my Castile insert it used to rattle like crazy.  I was about ready to have the dealer take it back.   The cast back plates were very sloppy fitting, and the top plate used to start to rattle so bad that I had to get up and I would open the door and poke it up and down with a screw driver to make sure it was seated good.  That used to stop the top plate from rattling.

My right rear cast plate used to rattle once in a while, so I just took a paper clip and I wedged it in place while putting the cast plate back in place, and that fixed the rear plate rattle. 

This year I took a pair of pliers and I bent the steel channel ever so slightly where the right cast plate locks in on the end, and that did the trick. It didnt really tighten up the plate much but it does not rattle, so now I dont need the paper clip in there.  

When I got my insert and the installer showed me how to remove and replace the plates for cleaning,  I commented on how sloppy they fit, and he told me that  all of them were loose fitting so you can  just reach in and pull them up and out.   My thinking is  Quadrafire could had put a couple of  " Locking"  or  1/2 turn thumb screws at the edge of each back plate to lock them in place snuggly,  or some sort of locking tab.  I'm sure there are a lot of Castile stoves and inserts out there that rattle like crazy.


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## G00k (Nov 15, 2010)

Nicholas440 said:
			
		

> My thinking is  Quadrafire could had put a couple of  " Locking"  or  1/2 turn thumb screws at the edge of each back plate to lock them in place snuggly,  or some sort of locking tab.  I'm sure there are a lot of Castile stoves and inserts out there that rattle like crazy.




I worry about any kind of built-in mechanical latch that is within the fire box that can't be removed and replaced without tools (1/2 in. thumb screws) because with the heat, ash, and the quality of the part, I figure it would become frozen solid and have to be destroyed to remove.  That's why up to now I've used a wad of Al foil - it doesn't have time to deteriorate (if it could).  I haven't been home to try my other idea (screws) yet.  Will advise.


As for the sound dampening stuff for a stereo, can you post a url so we can see it?  


Thanks, guys!


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 15, 2010)

good ole anti-seize used on a regular basis would solve that frozen problem.


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## saintjimb (Nov 20, 2010)

Here's a link to Dynamat.  I was thinking of using the same stuff, but was worried about the heat.  It's designed to line the inside of a car hood, so I think it will be alright.  Obviously, I wouldn't use it inside or against the fire box. Was thinking of starting with the two blower housings (the source of the vibrations), the back sides of all the decorative trim and surround, and wherever I can hide it on the inside of the door.  I have a Quadrafire Castille insert and it's incredibly loud.  There's intermittent rattles, then sometimes a vibrating hum that seems to build like a harmonic and will actually vibrate the whole living room floor.


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## ablejoy (Nov 21, 2010)

I am not sure around blower motor but let me know if it works I would think it would work on sheet metal parts.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 21, 2010)

saintjimb said:
			
		

> There's intermittent rattles, then sometimes a vibrating hum that seems to build like a harmonic and will actually vibrate the whole living room floor.



With that much vibration, it sure sounds like something is seriously out of balance.  Build up on the combustion exhaust fan?  Something (dirt dauber nest or mouse) in the squirrel cages of the room blower???  My Castile is quiet because of all the weight compared to my Sante Fe, that is lighter and more prone to vibrations.


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## saintjimb (Nov 21, 2010)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> With that much vibration, it sure sounds like something is seriously out of balance.  Build up on the combustion exhaust fan?  Something (dirt dauber nest or mouse) in the squirrel cages of the room blower???  My Castile is quiet because of all the weight compared to my Sante Fe, that is lighter and more prone to vibrations.



I had it cleaned top to bottom last year and it was rattling and motors vibrating again within a week.  One blower was replaced and that did help.  The other was supposedly fine.  Like others have experienced, the expert told me, "that's normal; they all do that."  I'm clearly not going to pay that same company to come out again.  The insert is 10+ years old (we've only owned the house for two) and I'm convinced much of the problem is due to improper installation.   It was installed as part of new construction in a living room addition with wood framing all around, not set into an existing solid brick fireplace.  I would think the stick and plaster would also allow more vibration than rigid brick.  I just don't know enough to prove it and can't find someone I trust to come take a look at it.  If anyone knows of a really good, knowledgeable tech in central MA, by all means send them my way.


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## HappyTapper (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi All,
I've been lurking around here for a few months learning all that I can about pellet burning.
Really great people with lots of info here
Thank You!!

I have a castile insert that I'm VERY happy with.
I have noticed a very low frequency sub harmonic rumble happening with my stove if the burnpot needs cleaning and and the flame is too high. Could this be what is happening to others? I could see it setting up sympathetic vibrations that could travel through the entire house. It sounds like a low foghorn and almost as loud in my stove. I figure the ash and stuff in the burnpot turns it into a low ended whistle and when things are cranking really good it whistles.
That is usually my clue that it is time to give the burnpot a good scraping. Generally I don't let it get too dirty.


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## CygnusX1 (Nov 21, 2010)

Just a thought... Is your stove properly balanced in the fireplace? 

I know my insert will rattle, usually, the surround on my stove, after I pull it out to clean it if I don't adjust the feet properly. Since the base of my fireplace isn't perfectly flat, I have to adjust the feet so it's perfectly level. The fans produce a certain amount of torque that will cause the stove to shimmy a bit and produce rattles.


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## krooser (Nov 21, 2010)

A little high temp silicone, placed in the right places, may help stop some of the rattles... I had an annoying rattle in my St. Croix that turned out to be caused by a dirty room air blower...


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## jasondubya (Nov 22, 2010)

"I have a castile insert that I’m VERY happy with.
I have noticed a very low frequency sub harmonic rumble happening with my stove if the burnpot needs cleaning and and the flame is too high. Could this be what is happening to others? I could see it setting up sympathetic vibrations that could travel through the entire house. It sounds like a low foghorn and almost as loud in my stove. I figure the ash and stuff in the burnpot turns it into a low ended whistle and when things are cranking really good it whistles.
That is usually my clue that it is time to give the burnpot a good scraping. Generally I don’t let it get too dirty. "

My castille free standing unit makes the same noises, but typically only at startup when the stove dumps a lot of pellets in and is burning only a fraction of the pile. You might want to try lowering a feedrate, this may reduce some of your noises. Make sure that the flame is white/yellow, small, and active. The instruction manual has some pictures of good verse bad fires.

I also had issues with rattling plates and castings that the original posters seems to be referring to. I did two things to solve this problem. First I loosened the screws on the side panels and moved them around to try and alleviate the noise. You may not be able to access these panels with an insert model. Second, the tinfoil ideas sounds great! I was jamming pellets in the gaps to reduce vibrations. Anything goes at 3:00 in the morning.


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## saintjimb (Nov 22, 2010)

I love the tinfoil idea.  I just tried it between the inner door and it's handle - one of the worst culprits for noise.  Quiet so far!


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## G00k (Nov 23, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions, gang!

I try to keep the stove clean - I guess you wouldn't want to eat off the firepot bottom, but the dump door opens and closes without much binding from caked on black-whatever-that-is.  (not clinker, that's fer shur).

I just finished my sampling of potential-purchase pellets (Pennington, Hamer, AWF - 2 bags each).  Pennington left the cake on the bottom and some clinker, the others didn't.  I think I'll go with the Hamer (packaged by Southern States).   All three brands had pellets that were lighter in color than I'm used to  - the Stove Chow I had left over from last year is close to the color of rabbit-pellets, these test bags were more golden colored.  

I tried using some screws to take the place of the foil, but they were too large to fit - I'll have to scrounge some smaller ones to try.  I've tried more foil in different places and the more I use, the quieter it gets (until they work their way out).  As far as external parts rattling, I'm trying other dampening solutions.

Someone mentioned pulling the insert for cleaning.  Is it supposed to be possible?  My "expert" didn't pull it out when he checked/cleaned the  stove originally.  I watched the dvd that came with the stove and saw that there is a detachable connection to the exhaust pipe, and access to the blowers.  I haven't been able to get to them very well so far.  I don't want to kill it during the season.

Finally, could you give me the brand name / product name of the high-temp silicon, so I can learn about it?


Thanks,

G00k

PS:  I don't think the bearings are bad on the fans.  All fans differ in speed and the difference causes the beat in the noise (a 100 rpm fan and a 101 rpm fan will cause a 1 hz beat if they resonate the same sheet metal housing. Or is that a 6hz beat?)  But the point is sheet metal rattles.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 23, 2010)

Rutland is the brand name you are looking for on the high temp silly cone.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 23, 2010)

If you open up the hopper door and ALMOST remove the two phillip head screws on the right side angled plate that holds the cast decorative side piece in place, you can lift the plate up and remove the side piece.  Then you can get at the quick disconnect for the exhaust.  There are two snap holders that are pretty tough to get pulled loose but they will come loose and probably snap you in the finger on the way!  You can pull the flex liner and adapter to one side and run a brush up the pipe.  It's not easy!  I opted to pull out my stove for the cleaning and then last spring, I put a piece of plastic sheeting in between the two halves of the adapter to keep out moisture.  To get it out, I did what I first said and it worked out fine.


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## G00k (Nov 30, 2010)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> If you open up the hopper door and ALMOST remove the two phillip head screws on the right side angled plate that holds the cast decorative side piece in place, you can lift the plate up and remove the side piece.  Then you can get at the quick disconnect for the exhaust.  There are two snap holders that are pretty tough to get pulled loose but they will come loose and probably snap you in the finger on the way!  _You can pull the flex liner and adapter to one side and run a brush up the pipe.  It's not easy!  I opted to pull out my stove for the cleaning and then last spring, I put a piece of plastic sheeting in between the two halves of the adapter to keep out moisture.  To get it out, I did what I first said and it worked out fine._



Three Questions:
1. _pull the flex liner and adapter to one side and run a brush up the pipe._  - Is that EXTREMELY MESSY?

2. _I opted to pull out my stove for the cleaning_ - Is it anchored in place by anything, or very difficult to move?  (I'm not thinking of more than 10-12", or it'll be hanging off the end of my hearth.)

3. _I put a piece of plastic sheeting in between the two halves of the adapter to keep out moisture._ - Is this to keep moisture from coming through the exhaust?  I noticed that my sheet metal had been getting rust spots. (No leaks, just 6-8 months' humidity.)

Thanks for your input.  I just took shipment of my 2 tons of Hamer's.  I wonder if that'll do me for the winter (north central Maryland is somewhat moderate).

I'll check back soon.  Stay warm, gang.


G00k


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## G00k (Nov 30, 2010)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Rutland is the brand name you are looking for on the high temp silly cone.



Can that be present inside the actual firebox area?  

It would give me an idea - I could make a casting of a seam, make a silicone wedge, much like the tinfoil one, but that would protrude through the back of the seam and expand out a little.  Maybe the same on the front end of the wedge as well.  The idea would be that the bulges would keep it from moving out of the seam from either end, and if the wedge was made slightly thicker than the seam, it could be stretched a little to fit, then when released in the seam it would contract and tighten itself to dampen vibrations further.  

Might start a whole new industry - _Stove Rattle Quieters_.


Whadya think?


G00k


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