# Kuuma Vapor Fire 100 in-progress install pics



## JRHAWK9 (Jul 18, 2014)

Here are some in-progress photos of my Vapor Fire 100.  I have 98% of the wiring done and just waiting for the HVAC guy to make/install the plenum and duct it over to the existing ductwork so I can wire in the powered damper and high temp limit switch.  I found a used 40 gallon electric water heater which I cleaned out, removed the heating coils, installed new fittings/anode rod/pop-off & drain valves and have it ready to be connected to the water coil on the Kuuma.  Also have everything wired and set for the humidifier I'll be installing on the plenum. Daryl has been a tremendous help and the build quality of the furnace is amazing.  This coming winter and all future winters will be completely different than what we are used to.....which was burning 4+ cords of wood while still using ~$2,000 worth of propane a year all while keeping it 50°-52° at night & when at work. Then having to build a fire in the fireplace after getting home from work to "heat" the house while we were home.  Repeat every day throughout the winter.  It sounds a bit crazy, but I've been excited for winter since about March! lol


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## Karl_northwind (Jul 18, 2014)

Yep. they're a solid piece of equipment.  I just installed my first one up the road from you.  Both I and the customer are looking forward to seeing what it'll do. 
karl


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 18, 2014)

really.....where?  Did you do the sheet metal work?


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 19, 2014)

May want that water heater a little closer.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 19, 2014)

yeah, I was contemplating moving it closer.  I plan on using pipe insulation on all the hot water lines too.


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## jrod770 (Jul 20, 2014)

Not to hijack your thread, but does the Kuuma burn like my US Stove/Clayton?  Do you just fill it full and it controls draft and temperature from the thermostat, or do you adjust your load size with the temperature you want in the house?  That might sound a little confusing, but I was just wondering if the Kuuma is all manual like my current US Stove set up, or if can just load it and set temperature on the thermostat?  Thanks


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 20, 2014)

jrod770 said:


> Not to hijack your thread, but does the Kuuma burn like my US Stove/Clayton?  Do you just fill it full and it controls draft and temperature from the thermostat, or do you adjust your load size with the temperature you want in the house?  That might sound a little confusing, but I was just wondering if the Kuuma is all manual like my current US Stove set up, or if can just load it and set temperature on the thermostat?  Thanks





No, it's different than your US Stove.  The Kuuma has a computer on it which allows you to control how much heat output you want, from low to high.  It has, what looks to me like, a variable potentiometer; meaning you have more than just three settings to control how much heat you want from it.  It's marked low, medium and high, but you are not limited to just those three settings.  The computer uses a thermocouple to determine current heat output and automatically adjusts the damper (which is also controller by the computer) for whatever rate of burn you have it set at.  The hotter you have it set the more air it allows in through the damper and the more heat you will get.  The draft is auto regulated by using a barometric damper which is set at 0.06" W.C.  There is a two speed fan, which is controlled by an included wall mounted thermostat.  When the thermostat calls for heat, the blower system automatically kicks on high.  When the temperature is satisfied and the thermostat "kicks off", the blower system switches back to low where it stays until the thermostat calls for heat again.  All this means you can fill it full and not worry about adjusting anything but a little dial to control the heat output you want.  The burn times are dependent on what heat output setting you have the computer set as well as how much wood you put in the firebox.  More wood + low setting = longest burn times.  It will still be possible to overheat the house during the shoulder seasons when it's not as cold, but you can help control that by the type & quantity of wood you use during the shoulder seasons.  Anything that burns hot and quick would probably be your best bet to take the chill out on those somewhat warmer days.


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## jrod770 (Jul 20, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> No, it's different than your US Stove.  The Kuuma has a computer on it which allows you to control how much heat output you want, from low to high.  It has, what looks to me like, a variable potentiometer; meaning you have more than just three settings to control how much heat you want from it.  It's marked low, medium and high, but you are not limited to just those three settings.  The computer uses a thermocouple to determine current heat output and automatically adjusts the damper (which is also controller by the computer) for whatever rate of burn you have it set at.  The hotter you have it set the more air it allows in through the damper and the more heat you will get.  The draft is auto regulated by using a barometric damper which is set at 0.06" W.C.  There is a two speed fan, which is controlled by an included wall mounted thermostat.  When the thermostat calls for heat, the blower system automatically kicks on high.  When the temperature is satisfied and the thermostat "kicks off", the blower system switches back to low where it stays until the thermostat calls for heat again.  All this means you can fill it full and not worry about adjusting anything but a little dial to control the heat output you want.  The burn times are dependent on what heat output setting you have the computer set as well as how much wood you put in the firebox.  More wood + low setting = longest burn times.  It will still be possible to overheat the house during the shoulder seasons when it's not as cold, but you can help control that by the type & quantity of wood you use during the shoulder seasons.  Anything that burns hot and quick would probably be your best bet to take the chill out on those somewhat warmer days.




Sounds like it's as close to an OWB as you can get, but still have the furnace in the house and burn just a fraction of the wood??  I'm also guessing it will burn less wood than the Clayton/US Stove?


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 20, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> No, it's different than your US Stove.  The Kuuma has a computer on it which allows you to control how much heat output you want, from low to high.  It has, what looks to me like, a variable potentiometer; meaning you have more than just three settings to control how much heat you want from it.  It's marked low, medium and high, but you are not limited to just those three settings.  The computer uses a thermocouple to determine current heat output and automatically adjusts the damper (which is also controller by the computer) for whatever rate of burn you have it set at.  The hotter you have it set the more air it allows in through the damper and the more heat you will get.  The draft is auto regulated by using a barometric damper which is set at 0.06" W.C.  There is a two speed fan, which is controlled by an included wall mounted thermostat.  When the thermostat calls for heat, the blower system automatically kicks on high.  When the temperature is satisfied and the thermostat "kicks off", the blower system switches back to low where it stays until the thermostat calls for heat again.  All this means you can fill it full and not worry about adjusting anything but a little dial to control the heat output you want.  The burn times are dependent on what heat output setting you have the computer set as well as how much wood you put in the firebox.  More wood + low setting = longest burn times.  It will still be possible to overheat the house during the shoulder seasons when it's not as cold, but you can help control that by the type & quantity of wood you use during the shoulder seasons.  Anything that burns hot and quick would probably be your best bet to take the chill out on those somewhat warmer days.




Very good description mr. Hawk. But the high limit will also turn hi speed on, not just the t-stat. Also just my opinion but use 45* fittings instead of 90's. Or better yet soft copper for a nice swoop. You want the least amount of (friction) that's not the right word but a am having a major brain fart right now. Resistance! is the word ha. For the most of the thermo syphon flow.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 20, 2014)

jrod770 said:


> Sounds like it's as close to an OWB as you can get, but still have the furnace in the house and burn just a fraction of the wood??  I'm also guessing it will burn less wood than the Clayton/US Stove?



I can't comment on the amount of wood, as I have yet to use mine and have only a fireplace to compare it to.....lol



STIHLY DAN said:


> Very good description mr. Hawk. But the high limit will also turn hi speed on, not just the t-stat. Also just my opinion but use 45* fittings instead of 90's. Or better yet soft copper for a nice swoop. You want the least amount of (friction) that's not the right word but a am having a major brain fart right now. Resistance! is the word ha. For the most of the thermo syphon flow.



Dan, yeah, I'm planning on telling them 45° fittings, as I want to maintain a grade for the water to thermo cycle and to help eliminate any flat spots.  I will mention soft copper to him and see what he says.  True, I forgot about the high limit switch also turning the high speed fan on.

I also have an update.  My dedicated main power was made live today after having an electrician verify my wiring (which was all correct BTW   ).  Flipped the main 110V switch and my Humidistat upstairs came to life (which it is was supposed to, as it's powered by the 24V R & C on the VF).  I then flipped the dip switch on the VF100 (after temporarily connecting the high limit switch) and the VF's computer came to life and gave the correct read-out (damper closed cold).  Gettin' closer!


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## Karl_northwind (Jul 21, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> really.....where?  Did you do the sheet metal work?


Near Manawa.  We're out of Stevens Point, and Manawa is about halfway between us and Appleton.  I did all the installation  with the exception of the bonnet which a local shop built for us.  also put an electric boiler with a hot water coil in the plenum for backup.  I do 95% boiler and solar hot water work so duct and forced air is not my stong point, but when push comes to shove, I can get it done.  The last month we've put in a GARN Jr. a Kuuma, and a Windhager.  Been busy.


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## maple1 (Jul 21, 2014)

Although I have no experience with the VF, I think I would also try to raise the hot water tank as high as possible too, for better convection. Maximize the vertical rise coming out of the VF, and minimize the horizontal. And biggest practical diameter pipe.

*Sounds like it's as close to an OWB as you can get, but still have the furnace in the house and burn just a fraction of the wood??*

Not sure I'm understanding - in what ways would it be close to an OWB?


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## jrod770 (Jul 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Although I have no experience with the VF, I think I would also try to raise the hot water tank as high as possible too, for better convection. Maximize the vertical rise coming out of the VF, and minimize the horizontal. And biggest practical diameter pipe.
> 
> *Sounds like it's as close to an OWB as you can get, but still have the furnace in the house and burn just a fraction of the wood??*
> 
> Not sure I'm understanding - in what ways would it be close to an OWB?



I was comparing the 2 by the having the ability to just fill the firebox full of wood, set the thermostat where you want it, and not worry about it anymore, until you're out of wood.  I didn't know if the Kuuma worked this way or if it had all of the manual adjustments that my US Stove/Clayton does.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Although I have no experience with the VF, I think I would also try to raise the hot water tank as high as possible too, for better convection. Maximize the vertical rise coming out of the VF, and minimize the horizontal. And biggest practical diameter pipe.



But don't you still want the lower cold water supply on the tempering tank to be below (or at least equal to) the bottom intake tube on the water coil in order to facilitate proper water flow?  The coldest water should be at the bottom of the tempering tank and as you move out of the tank into the water coil the water will be getting warmer and warmer which will help thermocycle the water.  If the water coil supply is actually higher than the low nipple on the tempering tank I would think it would then hinder the thermocycling.

I can raise the tank ~4" or so more, this would place the bottom nipple on the tank at approximately the same height as the bottom nipple on the water coil.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 21, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> But don't you still want the lower cold water supply on the tempering tank to be below (or at least equal to) the bottom intake tube on the water coil in order to facilitate proper water flow?  The coldest water should be at the bottom of the tempering tank and as you move out of the tank into the water coil the water will be getting warmer and warmer which will help thermocycle the water.  If the water coil supply is actually higher than the low nipple on the tempering tank I would think it would then hinder the thermocycling.
> 
> I can raise the tank ~4" or so more, this would place the bottom nipple on the tank at approximately the same height as the bottom nipple on the water coil.



JR, why are you entering at the element heights? Why not cold from the drain, hot to the relief valve spot. Your other hot water tank relief will work for both tanks as the are/will be the same pressure.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 21, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> JR, why are you entering at the element heights? Why not cold from the drain, hot to the relief valve spot. Your other hot water tank relief will work for both tanks as the are/will be the same pressure.



hmmm, I guess I never thought of doing things that way.    That would definitely make more sense now wouldn't it.  Although, in the dead of winter I was hoping to isolate the tempering tank with valves to shut down my LP water heater all together just to see if just the VF heated water will be enough for us.  With the limited amount of water we go through I'm guessing a decent amount of LP is used just to keep the water inside the LP water heater up to temp and doing this will cut down on our LP useage even more.  Although, I don't know how hot the water will get inside the tempering tank and if it will even get hot enough to do this or if it will get too hot to where it's a danger to not have a blow off valve when the LP water heater is valved closed and therefore not seeing the same pressure. 

comments?

<edit>
Just talked to the guy who will be doing it.  We will be using the drain and relief spots as you mentioned.  He will also be teeing in a place for the relief valve so I can use the tempering tank like I mentioned above.  I wouldn't want to isolate the tempering tank if there was no relief valve.  I don't need it turning into a missle!


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## jebatty (Jul 22, 2014)

> _Sounds like it's as close to an OWB as you can get, but still have the furnace in the house and burn just a fraction of the wood??_


It would be more accurate to say the opposite, that the VP is about as far from an OWB as you can get. The VP's combustion design, heat exchanger design, and computerized burn control, along with the quality of its manufacture, puts the VP at the top of the field of hot air wood furnaces. And the very low emissions and high efficiency testing results probably put the VP nearly into a class by itself.


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## maple1 (Jul 22, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> hmmm, I guess I never thought of doing things that way.    That would definitely make more sense now wouldn't it.  Although, in the dead of winter I was hoping to isolate the tempering tank with valves to shut down my LP water heater all together just to see if just the VF heated water will be enough for us.  With the limited amount of water we go through I'm guessing a decent amount of LP is used just to keep the water inside the LP water heater up to temp and doing this will cut down on our LP useage even more.  Although, I don't know how hot the water will get inside the tempering tank and if it will even get hot enough to do this or if it will get too hot to where it's a danger to not have a blow off valve when the LP water heater is valved closed and therefore not seeing the same pressure.
> 
> comments?
> 
> ...


 

One additional comment from here would be not to do anything to the tank that would prevent re-installing the elements in the future. Or maybe go even further, and just install them now while it's empty. There is not much that is more efficient for home DHW heating than a conventional (well insulated) electric hot water heater - if it ever came to the point that the only reason you have LP at the house is for DHW heating (not knowing what else you use it for), it would be very easy to send the LP tank down the road & hook some juice up to your tempering tank as it would be all ready for it.

My sidearm/FPHX heating loop is tied in to my relief port on top (tied into the bottom feed entry at the bottom) - I just unscrewed the relief valve, screwed a T in there, then screwed the relief valve into one side of the T while the other side is my heating loop. Use lots of ball valves to isolate everything, including one on the loop side of that T - but make sure you leave enough room between the T & the valve (like with a 2 or 3 inch nipple) so the valve won't pinch or bring up on the stem of the relief valve when you go to close it. Learned that one the hard way.


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## maple1 (Jul 22, 2014)

jrod770 said:


> I was comparing the 2 by the having the ability to just fill the firebox full of wood, set the thermostat where you want it, and not worry about it anymore, until you're out of wood.  I didn't know if the Kuuma worked this way or if it had all of the manual adjustments that my US Stove/Clayton does.


 
I think most any wood burning central heating unit operates the same way once the fire is going - fill it up & let it go until it needs wood, or you need more heat, again. But comparing the Kuuma to an OWB is kind of doing a big disservice to the Kuuma. The OWB 'accomplishes' that in a  very clumsy way with lots of downsides - it just closes the air off & smolders the wood. I think the Kuuma neither works that way, nor has manual adjustments your US Stove does.

If any appliance that heats water with wood is being touted, or considered for purchase, on the basis of long burn times - beware.

All that said assuming you were referring to long unattended burns - if the 'long' part is taken out of that assumption, that's likely worse, as that would mean lots of refilling & tending and a huge supply of wood.


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## maple1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Sorry - one more comment on the tank. Along with maybe getting it higher, try to get some insulation under it too. Mine is up on a wood stand, with 1.5" of foam board under it (maybe should have had even more), and a layer of fiberglass wrapped around it & on top. Very little stand by heat loss.

And plumb in heat traps at the top of the tank.

And I guess one more - see if you can find some 'real' fiberglass based pipe insulation. Like Knauf. That stuff makes a big difference especially in a convection/recirculation based heating setup. Keeps all the heat where it's supposed to be. I found it here at a drywall place. But if you can't find it, two layers of the black stuff isn't bad either. 1.5" stuff almost goes right over the 3/4" stuff like it was made to.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 22, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Sorry - one more comment on the tank. Along with maybe getting it higher, try to get some insulation under it too. Mine is up on a wood stand, with 1.5" of foam board under it (maybe should have had even more), and a layer of fiberglass wrapped around it & on top. Very little stand by heat loss.
> 
> And plumb in heat traps at the top of the tank.
> 
> And I guess one more - see if you can find some 'real' fiberglass based pipe insulation. Like Knauf. That stuff makes a big difference especially in a convection/recirculation based heating setup. Keeps all the heat where it's supposed to be. I found it here at a drywall place. But if you can't find it, two layers of the black stuff isn't bad either. 1.5" stuff almost goes right over the 3/4" stuff like it was made to.




thanks for all the info!

I thought about setting it on some foam board, but then I questioned the integrity of the foam with all the weight on it.  I didn't want the foam failing and have the water heater tip to one side.

As far as getting it higher....can the drain on the tempering tank (cold supply) be higher than the lower "cold" intake on the water coil?  One would think you'd want the lower connection on the water coil to be at least at the same level or higher than the cold water supply coming from the tempering tank.  Does this matter?

I also heard some not so good things about those heat trap nipples, so I decided against them.  Unless you are referring to something different...?

As far as valves go, I think I have a total of 7 of them.  I have it valved it such a way where I can isolate the coil, tempering tank or water heater.


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## maple1 (Jul 22, 2014)

My tank is 80 gallons, and has been sitting on a piece of 1.5" cheap foam board for almost 2 years now. No issues seen. I did run a piece of strap around it & fastened it to the underneath of a stairwell right behind it - just in case something weird happened. Don't think there's issues with weight on foam board though.

Heat trap - just a short section in your pipe that goes down & back up again (8"+ or so) right after the tank exit. Principle is that heat won't leak out of your tank & make it past the down part.

I don't think it matters about the tank inlet (which actually is an outlet in the convection flow) being higher - but again I'm not familair at all with a Kuuma. The more you can vertically separate the generating part (Kuuma) from the absorbing part (tempering tank) of the convection system, and keeping it as direct as possible, the more flow will be generated. Straight up & down is optimum - try to get as close to that as possible. My heating zones will heat by convection - the upstairs ones a lot better than the downstairs ones although one of the downstairs ones has next to no horizontal separation. So giving it as much 'up' as practical will get more flow going.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 22, 2014)

valves are a must. You most likely will not be able to shut down the lp heater., The Kuuma is a helper coil not a heating coil. keep in mind if your tank was 120* and you took a 10 min shower at 3 gal a minute, you just mixed 30 gal of 50* water into the 50gal you have left. It takes a long time to heat an 80 gal tank via thermo syphon. Get a hp water heater tied in to that system and you can get the savings your looking for.


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## 8ball (Jul 22, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Here are some in-progress photos of my Vapor Fire 100.  I have 98% of the wiring done and just waiting for the HVAC guy to make/install the plenum and duct it over to the existing ductwork so I can wire in the powered damper and high temp limit switch.  I found a used 40 gallon electric water heater which I cleaned out, removed the heating coils, installed new fittings/anode rod/pop-off & drain valves and have it ready to be connected to the water coil on the Kuuma.  Also have everything wired and set for the humidifier I'll be installing on the plenum. Daryl has been a tremendous help and the build quality of the furnace is amazing.  This coming winter and all future winters will be completely different than what we are used to.....which was burning 4+ cords of wood while still using ~$2,000 worth of propane a year all while keeping it 50°-52° at night & when at work. Then having to build a fire in the fireplace after getting home from work to "heat" the house while we were home.  Repeat every day throughout the winter.  It sounds a bit crazy, but I've been excited for winter since about March! lol
> 
> 
> View attachment 135531
> ...


Nothing crazy about longing for wood heat


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 22, 2014)

OK, I re-did the fittings and raised it up about 14".

I put a tee on the top so I can still use the tp valve and one on the bottom so I can have a drain.  I don't have everything tightened, I just placed them there and I may let the guy dope them and tighten them to the position he wants them in while sweating the pipes.  I installed the original heating elements, solely for plugging purposes.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 22, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> valves are a must. You most likely will not be able to shut down the lp heater., The Kuuma is a helper coil not a heating coil. keep in mind if your tank was 120* and you took a 10 min shower at 3 gal a minute, you just mixed 30 gal of 50* water into the 50gal you have left. It takes a long time to heat an 80 gal tank via thermo syphon. Get a hp water heater tied in to that system and you can get the savings your looking for.



yeah, I am guessing I won't be able to take my heater out either, but it won't hurt to try


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 22, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> yeah, I am guessing I won't be able to take my heater out either, but it won't hurt to try



Sure it can. When your wife kills you for running out of hot water when showering.


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## maple1 (Jul 23, 2014)

I might put a ball valve right at the bottom tank fitting, between the tank & T. That would allow you to do stuff to the heating loop without draining your tank. Not sure about the Kuuma setup, but most HX setups might require some fluhing at some point in time due to some buildup in coils etc., so keep that in mind. If you want to set up for flushing, the bottom drain valve would do for one flushing point, but you would want to plumb in another drain valve up top somewhere for the other end of the flushing setup. And maybe another ball valve up there at the T.


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## brenndatomu (Jul 23, 2014)

And not just valves, but unions too. Doesn't do much good to put in a valve so that you can work on things if ya can't get it apart without undoing everything! Man this gets expensive! I bought everything I need (I think...haven't done it yet) to put a coil and tempering tank next to my Yukon furnace, couldn't believe how it added up! I can't imagine the cost to install one of those boilers with storage like I see some of these guys on here have


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## hobbyheater (Jul 23, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> ) to put a coil , couldn't believe how it added up! I can't imagine the cost to install one of those boilers with storage like I see some of these guys on here have




You can see why that when we have some unsuspecting soul heading down the boiler road the wrong way, we try to  prevent him from taking that plunge!


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 25, 2014)

As far as insulating the pipe connecting the heating coil to the tempering tank, I think I'm going with -THIS- stuff.  It has 2" wall thickness and an approximate R value of 10.  Then I'll be insulating the rest of the hot water pipe with -THIS- stuff which has 1" wall thickness and an approximate R value of 5.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 25, 2014)

I was just thinking.  Why couldn't I use PEX and Sharkbite connections to connect the tempering tank?  I would think this would be much easier and cheaper, seeing I could probably do it myself.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 25, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I was just thinking.  Why couldn't I use PEX and Sharkbite connections to connect the tempering tank?  I would think this would be much easier and cheaper, seeing I could probably do it myself.



Pex would be perfect. I don't care for shark bite tho.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 25, 2014)

I actually just looked at PEX and the 3/4" PEX is a decent amount narrower (ID) than 3/4" copper.  I then looked at the sharkbite fittings and those were REALLY narrow.  I've decided to stay with copper.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 26, 2014)

3/4 id pex should be the same size as 3/4 id copper ergo inside diameter.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 29, 2014)

The 3/4" PEX I looked at was noticeable thinner than than the 3/4" copper.  

I ended up doing it all myself with copper.  First time ever sweating pipes; 6 valves, 30 fittings and 40+ copper pipe and I don't have a leak.  It's currently up and running through the coil and tempering tank.  I just have to insulate the pipes and tank, but I want to leave it as is for a bit to confirm no leaks.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 29, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> The 3/4" PEX I looked at was noticeable thinner than than the 3/4" copper.
> 
> I ended up doing it all myself with copper.  First time ever sweating pipes; 6 valves, 30 fittings and 40+ copper pipe and I don't have a leak.  It's currently up and running through the coil and tempering tank.  I just have to insulate the pipes and tank, but I want to leave it as is for a bit to confirm no leaks.



Is the tank in the neighbors house? Mine has like 6 fittings And 8 ft of pipe. Got a pic of the new install?


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## JRHAWK9 (Jul 29, 2014)

lol.....no, it's right next to the Kuuma.  The "heating loop" only has around 5' of pipe.  My LP water heater is not next to it though.  
Like I mentioned above, I have insulating to do yet on the tempering tank and water lines.  I have some R10 stuff coming for the "heating loop" and R5 stuff coming for the rest of the lines.  I'm going to be using the same R13 stuff on the tempering tank as I used on the water heater.


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## STIHLY DAN (Jul 30, 2014)

Looks good. I will be redoing mine as well. I got my hands on a brand new superstor. So I will be pulling out the 80 gal old tank and replacing it with a 40. Hope I don't end up kicking myself.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 30, 2014)

I recently took off the insulation on my electric tank because I added a Nyletherm.  Definitely looks better without it!


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## velvetfoot (Aug 2, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Man this gets expensive!


I've started buying the doo dads for my pellet boiler-unreal $-adds up.


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