# Wood Burning Stove emits a harsh chemical smell



## doobydo

Hi, I have a wood burning stove fitted into our lounge which continues to emit a harsh chemical smell which I don't believe is smoke. The stove was installed a year ago. It's an Evergreen double doored stove, 7kw. The smell is present even when I burn lots of paper, or dry logs, so it doesn't seem related to bad fuel. The stove is fitted into a recess which is painted with black emulsion paint. The register plate is steel with a trapdoor. The flue pipe is fitted into a steel liner. I recently had a HETAS engineer round who checked the liner and fitting (cctv) and said the liner had no cracks and was fitted correctly. We have an electronic CO2 detector and that is zero. It's driving me nuts and means we can't use the stove as the fumes are too potent. 

Any ideas? I am thinking of taking the whole thing apart including register plate, flue pipe and connector and putting it all back again. I just want to get this sorted as winter will be here soon.


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## fbelec

sounds like paint to me. if you are going to take it out, check to see if it was installed with a caulking / adhesive at the smoke connector pipe. also is it installed with black stove pipe or galv pipe?


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## woodburn

Definitely sounds like paint.  It took my stove many burns before I stopped getting that nasty smell.  I would open all the windows and burn that sucker hot a few times.


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## jimbom

Since your install a year ago, has it been burned hot ie ~ 600 Â°F surface temperature?  If not, try that before taking it apart.  

I repainted our stove pipe this summer and did a test fire.  No odor.  Then last week a hot little fire got the stove pipe up to 600 Â°F before I noticed.  It stank? stinked? stink?  Anyway it smelled bad.


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## doobydo

Hi, thanks for responses. I have burned it many many times since last year at high temperatures and 99.9% sure it's not paint from the stove. I remember there was a period after the curing when the smell wasn't there. But at some point it started and became very strong. The stove is connected to a black flue pipe which goes through a steel register plate into a chimney liner. The surround is bricks painted with black emulsion and the surround and mantel is marble. Could the smell be from plaster or something used to put the mantelpiece in? I can post pictures if it will help.


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## BrowningBAR

doobydo said:
			
		

> Hi, thanks for responses. I have burned it many many times since last year at high temperatures and 99.9% sure it's not paint from the stove. I remember there was a period after the curing when the smell wasn't there. But at some point it started and became very strong. The stove is connected to a black flue pipe which goes through a steel register plate into a chimney liner. The surround is bricks painted with black emulsion and the surround and mantel is marble. Could the smell be from plaster or something used to put the mantelpiece in? I can post pictures if it will help.




Please post pics.


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## jimbom

doobydo said:
			
		

> ... The surround is bricks painted with black emulsion and the surround and mantel is marble. Could the smell be from plaster or something used to put the mantelpiece in? I can post pictures if it will help.



For some reason I cannot get this question out of my mind.

The marble mantel and surround should be inert.  If an old installation, it is installed with cement/lime mortar.  I have those and don't notice an odor.

Plaster normally is inert minerals, but if it is really old it may have organics.  Common was horsehair to add strength.  The Romans used blood to entrain air and make the mix more fluid while maintaining low water/cement ratio. 

Is it possible to get IR thermometer surface temperature of the surrounding surfaces when the odor is present?  Then using a source of heat, test individual areas of the surrounds to those temperatures until you locate an area that produces the smell.

I hate to think you would have to stop using your stove for this problem.


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## madison

doobydo said:
			
		

> The smell is present even when I burn lots of paper, or dry logs, so it doesn't seem related to bad fuel. The stove is fitted into a recess which is painted with black emulsion paint.



Bad fuel? ... "Lots of paper" ...  ?  Lots of paper can burn very hot , that along with the  (?re?) painted stove lends me to think it is the paint.

When we had our class a chimney painted with high temp bar-b-que paint, it had an odor for quite a months, which, would come and go with the chimney temps.

If the stove was actually repainted, I would point my finger in that direction, AND would not burn paper, IMHO (and experience : ))  you are asking for a chimney fire by burning paper.


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## doobydo

I really don't think it's paint as I have burned it about 50 times and at very high temperatures sometimes. The smell doesn't seem to emanate from the stove but from the top of the recess (I know, heat rises so it would gather there anyway). I have burnt it overnight as hot as I could on a number of occasions. 

Jimbo, I like the idea of heating up areas around the stove to see if it produces the same smell. What can I use to generate the heat? A blowtorch maybe?

Madison, don't worry, I don't burn paper generally, I was only burning it to test the smell and rule out my wood being the source. Normally I burn coal or plain wood (though sometimes building site wood - is that ok?).

I have added some pics.

Cheers


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## webbie

In my experience, these smells have usually come from dust and other things which settled around the stove in the off-season. This happens a lot with gas fireplaces - they have a burning metallic smell which drives some folks crazy! It does not take a lot of dust to make bad smell.

The stovepipe looks like galvanized. That is wrong - at least here in the states. That will off gas at higher temps. If it is stainless, disregard this....

Check the humidity in the room. It may be too dry. This could cause a lot of problems, including more dust and static. 

It may be that part of the solution involves humidifier, air filter or ionization.


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## BrowningBAR

doobydo said:
			
		

> I really don't think it's paint as I have burned it about 50 times and at very high temperatures sometimes. The smell doesn't seem to emanate from the stove but from the top of the recess (I know, heat rises so it would gather there anyway). I have burnt it overnight as hot as I could on a number of occasions.
> 
> Jimbo, I like the idea of heating up areas around the stove to see if it produces the same smell. What can I use to generate the heat? A blowtorch maybe?
> 
> Madison, don't worry, I don't burn paper generally, I was only burning it to test the smell and rule out my wood being the source. Normally I burn coal or plain wood (though sometimes building site wood - is that ok?).
> 
> I have added some pics.
> 
> Cheers




What is on the stove pipe and what is the caulking-like material that is being used at both ends of the pipe?


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## doobydo

Just to clarify, the stove hasn't been repainted, it's just a year old now.


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## webbie

It may be a good idea to try and seal some of the surfaces with a lot of powdery stuff on them - cements, plasters, etc.
A simple masonry sealer may do this...just brush it on.


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## doobydo

Thanks Webmaster - that's something I can definitely try.

And you're sure that won't degenerate under the heat as well? Is there any in particular I should use? (in UK)


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## webbie

I think the silicone based (they are very watery) should work - that masonry probably does not get very hot. These soak in anyway, and are really just sealers....

Waterglass is a similar compound:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate
Definitely very high temp!

"Concrete treated with a sodium silicate solution helps to significantly reduce porosity in most masonry products such as concrete, stucco, plasters. A chemical reaction occurs with the excess Ca(OH)2 (portlandite) present in the concrete that permanently binds the silicates with the surface making them far more wearable and water repellent. "


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## jimbom

doobydo said:
			
		

> Jimbo, I like the idea of heating up areas around the stove to see if it produces the same smell. What can I use to generate the heat? A blowtorch maybe?



I was thinking of an electric heat gun used for stripping paint.  Be sure to use an IR thermometer and post a fire watch after doing this.  Those things will take the paint right off if you get too close for to long.


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## doobydo

Ah yes a heat gun, far more sensible.

Not heard of a IR thermometer before - but a quick look on Amazon reveals this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOLTCRAFT-...10/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1317159444&sr=8-14

This one look ok?


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## jimbom

doobydo said:
			
		

> Ah yes a heat gun, far more sensible.
> 
> Not heard of a IR thermometer before - but a quick look on Amazon reveals this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOLTCRAFT-...10/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1317159444&sr=8-14
> 
> This one look ok?



Looks great.


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## daveswoodhauler

This happened to me last year once, and once this year as well. I think it was an accumulation of dust/particles on top of the stove. It seemed to only happen once during the burning season, and then didn't happen again until my first burn this year.


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## Swedishchef

For what it's worth, I had a stove that either had : 1- bad batch of steel or 2- bad batch of paint. Every time I lit a fire, it smelled. People would come in my house and be like "what's that smell". I eventually got a new stove and it never happened again. However, I found out that the stove was sold to a company employe who has not since complained about it....perhaps it was all in my mind! 

I certainly feel your frustrations.

Keep us posted!

Andrew


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## doobydo

Latest:

This weekend a friend and I took a closer look at the stove to try and ascertain the source of the smell. First, we used a gas blow torch to heat up areas of the stove. It did emit a slight smell similar to the one I experienced, but it wasn't conclusive enough to convince me that was it. Then we heated/burned some of the black paint on the brick. Again it emitted a smell but was a lot more acrid than the one I normally get. However, I thought that perhaps a combination of the two was the culprit.

By this stage I thought we may as well go the whole hog and take everything apart. So we took down the register plate (after heating that too, but no smell) and took the stove outside.

After taking the stove away we could see a large grey patch where the paint had been burned/dried off behind the stove. The stove was sitting just 1-2cm away from the brick behind.

So my thoughts are:

1. Still could be the stove as the smell from it after being heated was very similar to the one which normally arises.
2. Could also be due to some of the paint being burned as stove too close to back wall.

When it gets a bit cooler and neighbours windows are shut (heatwave in UK at the moment!) I am going to light the stove outside and see if I get more of the smell.

So the plan now is this:

1. Get some professionals round to give me a price for installing a new stove (it might still come to that) and hopefully they will give me some advice.
2. Paint the bricks over with a proper fire resistant paint (rather than seal it - or what do people think?)
3. Reassemble the flue pipe, register plate and stove but try to pull it away from the back wall more. I guess I'll need an S bend flue pipe for this.

Any other suggestions?


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## North of 60

What is that stove pipe made of?


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## doobydo

Another question:

Whilst it may smell bad (stove or paint) - is it actually harmful?? With two kids in the house I don't wish to take any chances.


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## DanCorcoran

You could lower the temperature of the back wall without moving the stove forward if you made a heat shield for the wall.  Sheet metal (not galvanized) affixed to the brick with stand-offs (perhaps thick washers or porcelain, or whatever you can find that are the right thickness).  That, plus sealing the brick, might solve it.  

(I started to say that the stand-offs need to be non-combustible, but since it's only brick back there, there's no need).  Be sure to leave several inches clearance between the bottom edge of the metal shield and the floor, so that you can get good convective airflow up behind there).


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## doobydo

North:

Bought from Machine Mart in UK: 

"product: 090321135

500mm x 5" Straight Flue Pipe (N)

Designed for use with the Clarke stoves listed below. Made from* steel with a quality vitreous enamel coating*, and conforming precisely to all relevant quality standards."


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## doobydo

Dan:

Thanks - that's a good idea, would be a lot easier than trying to connect bendy flue pipes!


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## DanCorcoran

You didn't say...what was your existing pipe made of?


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## doobydo

Dan:

It's "made from steel with a quality vitreous enamel coating"

Thanks


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## DanCorcoran

Sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought that was some new pipe you just bought to replace the existing.


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## doobydo

Np  - thought the order of messages may have been inversed


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## woodburn

doobydo, it's definitely coming from the paint on the brick.  You said there was a burned off patch behind the stove.  Where do you think that paint went?  Clearly vaporized into the air, hence the smell of fumes you are getting.  Yes, of course it's harmful to you and your family to breathe it in.  Not to worry now, but I certainly wouldn't want to keep burning it.  While you have the stove out, I would paint the brick with a proper high temp paint, then use the suggestion of using a heat shield.  Good luck.  It's definitely a fixable problem, so no need to think about giving up burning.


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## califf

my initial thoughts would be the paint applied to the bricks...might try covering the brick and floor painted areas to protect from direct heat and see if this eliminates the smell....could strip the paint...which would be a messy chore...or cover with mortar of some kind...


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## doobydo

Hi all

I have repainted over the bricks today with an enamel heat resistant paint. I would also like to try to move the stove further away from the wall but to do this I would need to put a bend in the flue.

I am thinking of using this product:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Adjusta...elpieces_RL&hash=item3a666f2166#ht_2188wt_905

If I can move the stove away from the wall I will also put in a heat shield.

Any ideas?

Thanks


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## Danno77

Was the brown stuff identified? Is that some sort of high temp caulk or stove cement?


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## doobydo

What brown stuff? The patch behind the stove was burnt paint. Is that what you are referring to?


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## Danno77

doobydo said:
			
		

> What brown stuff? The patch behind the stove was burnt paint. Is that what you are referring to?


No the stuff that looks like it was used to seal at the stove collar, at the blockoff plate, and that other square plate.


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## doobydo

Ah yes that is fire cement. I bought the wrong colour but used it anyway as I knew the stove would be coming out.


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## Danno77

No problem. I was hoping tht's what it was. If it was a brown version of that high temp caulk then it could be a source of the problem.


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## doobydo

Ah ok, gotcha.

Next step is to try to find a way to bend the flue out so I can move the stove away from the wall.


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## doobydo

Update:

Heat resistant paint went on nicely, put a couple of coats on. Then with the help of a friend who's handy at DIY we managed to pull the chimney liner closer to the front by chipping out some crusty cement that had accumulated on the bricks. This meant the liner came forward by about an inch.

This meant we could move the stove further forward away from the wall to the extent it is now 2 inches away from the back wall (plenty of room on the sides).

We used heat resistant sealant to attach the flue pipe to the stove and the liner.

As yet we haven't put the register plate back up as I wanted to see if there was any smell without it.

So far so good!

I burned it fiercely this morning and there was a metallic odour which I took to be the stove mostly, but it might also be the enamel paint hardening. The stove was then kept on medium throughout the day and when I came back from work this evening I couldn't really smell much at all!

I'll burn it again for the next few days to make sure, but all the signs so far are positive. If it doesn't emit any more strong odours then we'll put the register plate back and the job's finished.


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## mattiker

doobydo said:
			
		

> Update:
> 
> As yet we haven't put the register plate back up as I wanted to see if there was any smell without it.
> 
> So far so good!
> 
> I burned it fiercely this morning and there was a metallic odour which I took to be the stove mostly, but it might also be the enamel paint hardening. The stove was then kept on medium throughout the day and when I came back from work this evening I couldn't really smell much at all!
> 
> I'll burn it again for the next few days to make sure, but all the signs so far are positive. If it doesn't emit any more strong odours then we'll put the register plate back and the job's finished.



Hi Doobydo,

I have a similar issue to you, and it's driving my totally crazy (I'm sure you can empathise!).   Has yours stopped smelling?  Did you put the register plate back in?  Did the smell come back?  If you cured it what do think was the cause?

I suspect without the register plate the bad smells might drift up the chimney anyway, right?  

Cheers,

Matt


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## Hinneymac

doobydo said:


> Hi, I have a wood burning stove fitted into our lounge which continues to emit a harsh chemical smell which I don't believe is smoke. The stove was installed a year ago. It's an Evergreen double doored stove, 7kw. The smell is present even when I burn lots of paper, or dry logs, so it doesn't seem related to bad fuel. The stove is fitted into a recess which is painted with black emulsion paint. The register plate is steel with a trapdoor. The flue pipe is fitted into a steel liner. I recently had a HETAS engineer round who checked the liner and fitting (cctv) and said the liner had no cracks and was fitted correctly. We have an electronic CO2 detector and that is zero. It's driving me nuts and means we can't use the stove as the fumes are too potent.
> 
> Any ideas? I am thinking of taking the whole thing apart including register plate, flue pipe and connector and putting it all back again. I just want to get this sorted as winter will be here soon.


 
Hi all first post for me,can't believe this I have the very same problem,it's an Evergreen double sided twin door burner and I get the same rancid smell,this must be from the paint as it only happens when you run it hot,it is very off putting and had me worried about the fumes it was giving off. I know hopefully by having a mains connected carbon monoxide alarm that it is not that (as I know you can't smell it, but it's still a worry) I am going to get in contact with Evergreen tomorrow and find out what paint they are using.
Anyone else having this issue could you please let us know if it is the same manufacturer Ta
Oh looking forward to reading the other threads looks a great site.


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## Hinneymac

Well contacted Evergreen they said that it is the paint and you need to burn it hot so I am had a few ragers on the go so I will keep you posted as to how I get on.


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## begreen

doobydo said:


> Latest:
> 
> This weekend a friend and I took a closer look at the stove to try and ascertain the source of the smell. First, we used a gas blow torch to heat up areas of the stove. It did emit a slight smell similar to the one I experienced, but it wasn't conclusive enough to convince me that was it. Then we heated/burned some of the black paint on the brick. Again it emitted a smell but was a lot more acrid than the one I normally get. However, I thought that perhaps a combination of the two was the culprit.
> 
> By this stage I thought we may as well go the whole hog and take everything apart. So we took down the register plate (after heating that too, but no smell) and took the stove outside.
> 
> After taking the stove away we could see a large grey patch where the paint had been burned/dried off behind the stove. The stove was sitting just 1-2cm away from the brick behind.
> 
> Any other suggestions?


 
I think that's the big clue. I would install a metal heat shield onto the back of the stove or onto the brick with at least a 1/2" air gap. The stove is getting the brick hot. The paint on the brick is outgassing when heated.


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## fiona

hi, just had a stove installed 3 days ago. the fumes are strong, its making my eyes sting. did you have this problem. im kinda worried about it.


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## Robin Jackson

I also have the strong fumes, almost makes us sick, problem is it has been used every winter since 2007 and we have to go through this every time we let the stove go out.  So every time we have a few nice days and it gets cold again we have to sit through the awful "burn-off" all over again.
Anything we can do to stop this?  Repaint stove?  Use stove Polish?  Shouldn't have to go through this after the first burn in my experience in past life....


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## jbirdjtrain

doobydo said:


> Hi, I have a wood burning stove fitted into our lounge which continues to emit a harsh chemical smell which I don't believe is smoke. The stove was installed a year ago. It's an Evergreen double doored stove, 7kw. The smell is present even when I burn lots of paper, or dry logs, so it doesn't seem related to bad fuel. The stove is fitted into a recess which is painted with black emulsion paint. The register plate is steel with a trapdoor. The flue pipe is fitted into a steel liner. I recently had a HETAS engineer round who checked the liner and fitting (cctv) and said the liner had no cracks and was fitted correctly. We have an electronic CO2 detector and that is zero. It's driving me nuts and means we can't use the stove as the fumes are too potent.
> 
> Any ideas? I am thinking of taking the whole thing apart including register plate, flue pipe and connector and putting it all back again. I just want to get this sorted as winter will be here soon.



The ceramic sealant for the door/glass may be odor you smell.  It's horrendous, and you're likely to smell it in areas furthest from the stove.  Definitely chemical smell.  Solution:  disassemble the door.  Clean all of the sealant off thoroughly.  Replace gaskets with a thicker sealant (more caulk-like than runny black crap that comes with gaskets).  Use the absolute minimum amount of sealant with new gaskets (Follow recommendations).  This will help a lot, but may not solve completely.  Circulate the air in your home, open windows.  Spaces where heat gets trapped emit stronger odor.  Another option is to not burn so hot, and makes sure your chimney and stove is cleaned regularly. 

Paint smells similar, but slightly different.  So if unit or paint is fresh, take unit outside and burn off out there for 4-8 hours first.


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