# Newcomer with a slammer



## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

I'm sure this has all been rehashed in places I haven't found here yet -- but just looking for some feedback.

Background: Bought a home this spring with a wood burning insert into a masonry fireplace. Didn't know jack about fireplaces. Just went to have my chimney swept last week and the tech basically said a sweep was worthless with my current setup as it is unsafe to operate. Basically said not to do a sweep, took a few measurements, made me sign a slip saying "unsafe for operation", took my $130, and then sent me a quote for ~$4700 for a new insert (Timberwolf EPI 22), and a 25' SS insulated liner, installed.  

My current setup: I have what I believe is a "slammer" -- a very heavy Craft Stove insert that has been slid into the freestanding fireplace. The slammer has a rectangular opening, and vents directly into the throat without any connection.

My use case: We intend to use the fireplace only as supplemental heat and ambiance on cold winter nights in Denver. 

My current thinking: Use HomeSaver's adapters made to fit rectangular openings into a modern SS liner. Self install a pre-insulated SS liner, and chimney cap onto the adapted exhaust. When finances allow in the future, acquire a modern insert with a cat, and attach it to the liner. 

Potential hiccups: The HomeSaver adapters go to an 8" liner, but I need a 6" liner to fit well in my flue. (Oddly, I have 2 independent small flues in the chimney.) Self install? I'm reasonably handy and patient but this would be my first hearth project. 

My budget for this (unexpected) project is $3k max. So I'm currently hunting around for professionals in the area that may be able to assist me at a cheap rate than the initial quote. If anyone has any Denver-area recommendations I'd be glad to hear them.


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## bholler (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> I'm sure this has all been rehashed in places I haven't found here yet -- but just looking for some feedback.
> 
> Background: Bought a home this spring with a wood burning insert into a masonry fireplace. Didn't know jack about fireplaces. Just went to have my chimney swept last week and the tech basically said a sweep was worthless with my current setup as it is unsafe to operate. Basically said not to do a sweep, took a few measurements, made me sign a slip saying "unsafe for operation", took my $130, and then sent me a quote for ~$4700 for a new insert (Timberwolf EPI 22), and a 25' SS insulated liner, installed.
> 
> ...


It goes to 8" because that is what you need for your stove.


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## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

bholler said:


> It goes to 8" because that is what you need for your stove.



So the certified sweep that quoted me a 6" liner kit to retrofit my current insert was full of it?


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## begreen (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> Oddly, I have 2 independent small flues in the chimney.)


Bummer. Do these flues continue all the way down to the fireplace? What is their ID?

Based on the proposed usage, maybe just get a decent $1000 EPA insert now that has a 6" flue and self-install?


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## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

begreen said:


> Bummer. Do these flues continue all the way down to the fireplace? What is their ID?



Yes, they come all the way down to the throat. I'm not sure of their exact internal ID, but I am working under the impression that at least the quote 6" pre-insulated liner would fit. I believe the sweeps recommendation was to basically seal off one flue, while using a liner in the other.


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## bholler (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> So the certified sweep that quoted me a 6" liner kit to retrofit my current insert was full of it?


Probably what size is the outlet on your insert


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## bholler (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> So the certified sweep that quoted me a 6" liner kit to retrofit my current insert was full of it?


Most of the older inserts need 8"  and most new ones need 6"


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## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

begreen said:


> Bummer. Do these flues continue all the way down to the fireplace? What is their ID?
> 
> Based on the proposed usage, maybe just get a decent $1000 EPA insert now that has a 6" flue and self-install?



Hmm -- haven't seen many EPA inserts at that low of a price. Model recommendations?


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## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

bholler said:


> Probably what size is the outlet on your insert



It's the 3 1/4 x 13 3/4" rectangular -- same as the HomeSaver insert.


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## bholler (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> It's the 3 1/4 x 13 3/4" rectangular -- same as the HomeSaver insert.


Yeah you need an 8"


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## jmeb (Oct 23, 2017)

bholler said:


> Yeah you need an 8"



Which I doubt will fit up one of my single flues once I consider insulation around it. 

Sounds like I'm better off with a new insert right away -- hoping that I can find someone willing to install liner + new insert for <$3k.


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## bholler (Oct 23, 2017)

jmeb said:


> Which I doubt will fit up one of my single flues once I consider insulation around it.
> 
> Sounds like I'm better off with a new insert right away -- hoping that I can find someone willing to install liner + new insert for <$3k.


Maybe but getting it done this year might be an issue.  I am sure you could self install for that which you were considering anyway.


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## begreen (Oct 24, 2017)

jmeb said:


> Hmm -- haven't seen many EPA inserts at that low of a price. Model recommendations?


The make/model will depend on what fits, but the Englander 13NCi, Drolet Escape 1400i, Century CW2900i, True North TN20 inserts sell for around $1000-1200.


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## jmeb (Oct 24, 2017)

begreen said:


> The make/model will depend on what fits, but the Englander 13NCi, Drolet Escape 1400i, Century CW2900i, True North TN20 inserts sell for around $1000-1200.



Thanks.

I've found a local, well-reviewed store that sent me some possible options that are scratch & dents / displays. All could be installed with the liner for <$3k.

They are all Regency Hampton series -- have both I1200S, the medium H1205 (in the brown finish), and one larger H1305.

Time to research. Obviously this dude is a Regency/Hampton dealer so those are his options. Not sure how they stack up as a brand compared to others. I do not mind a bit of cosmetic imperfections, god knows my house has many.


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## begreen (Oct 24, 2017)

Regency makes a decent insert. Note that is a letter i not a one for the model. The HI300 is a popular unit and a good looking insert.  Haven't heard of the HI305, but am wondering if this is just a variation on the HI300? One thing to check/ask the dealer about. When was the insert made? You'll want to get one with the stainless steel deflector.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Oct 25, 2017)

Run it the way it is. If it's supplemental. Find someone who will clean it or clean it yourself. I have a slammer. It says right on my stove don't connect anything to it. Obviously now that's not a good idea but seasoned wood and hot fires has kept me from any buildup or badness


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## bholler (Oct 25, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Run it the way it is. If it's supplemental. Find someone who will clean it or clean it yourself. I have a slammer. It says right on my stove don't connect anything to it. Obviously now that's not a good idea but seasoned wood and hot fires has kept me from any buildup or badness


That is absolutely horrible and irresponsible advice.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Oct 25, 2017)

If you do something "wrong" make sure you are careful and do it right. Check the chimney weekly. Keep it hot. At the point in time my insert was manufactured it was common practice, and until a bunch of bad things happened from misuse and abuse it was fine.


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## bholler (Oct 25, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> If you do something "wrong" make sure you are careful and do it right. Check the chimney weekly. Keep it hot. At the point in time my insert was manufactured it was common practice, and until a bunch of bad things happened from misuse and abuse it was fine.


No it was never fine the inherent problems were always there.  When you check you chimney weekly do you pull the insert to check the smoke chamber.  

How are you careful about the potential co danger?  What co detector do you have?  Some of them take up to 3 hours of elevated levels to go off.

If you choose to do it your self that is one thing.  But telling others to ignore the very real dangers is extremely irresponsible.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Oct 25, 2017)

That goes back to doing it wrong right. I have a pipe to go thru the smoke chamber into the clay chimney , and the co detector is on the floor not far from the stove. Guess I'm not sure on the time it takes to make noise. Spose when it's my time to go it's my time. I have had co poisoning before and thankfully I woke up and yacked before I died.


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## bholler (Oct 25, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> That goes back to doing it wrong right. I have a pipe to go thru the smoke chamber into the clay chimney , and the co detector is on the floor not far from the stove. Guess I'm not sure on the time it takes to make noise. Spose when it's my time to go it's my time. I have had co poisoning before and thankfully I woke up and yacked before I died.


Ok so you don't have a slammer you have a direct connect.  Guess what that is code compliant.  And much safer than a slammer but no where near as safe as a full liner.  But still how often do you pull the insert out and clean the smoke shelf and smoke chamber?  Even with a direct connect there can be allot of accumulation.  

You obviously don't know much about co you should have a fast response detector near where you sleep at the level your head is at when you sleep.  Co is pretty much the same weight as air so it can be at any level in the room.  You would think that someone who had poisoning before would be a bit more concerned about the risks.


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## familyfarm42 (Oct 28, 2017)

jmeb said:


> So the certified sweep that quoted me a 6" liner kit to retrofit my current insert was full of it?



Maybe not.... there is a member on here named Coaly who explained the math behind what size flue pipe you need.  My unit needs a 6" to be most efficient.... an 8" would work but will not be as efficient.


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## bholler (Oct 28, 2017)

familyfarm42 said:


> Maybe not.... there is a member on here named Coaly who explained the math behind what size flue pipe you need.  My unit needs a 6" to be most efficient.... an 8" would work but will not be as efficient.


Yes but coaly's advice in my experience is not correct.  Most of these old inserts do not run well at all on 6 they do ok on 7 though.  And regardless you are only allowed to go down one inch in size.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Oct 28, 2017)

bholler said:


> Ok so you don't have a slammer you have a direct connect.  Guess what that is code compliant.  And much safer than a slammer but no where near as safe as a full liner.  But still how often do you pull the insert out and clean the smoke shelf and smoke chamber?  Even with a direct connect there can be allot of accumulation.
> 
> You obviously don't know much about co you should have a fast response detector near where you sleep at the level your head is at when you sleep.  Co is pretty much the same weight as air so it can be at any level in the room.  You would think that someone who had poisoning before would be a bit more concerned about the risks.



I got the poisoning while ice fishing. Never in the house. And what Koloafies it a direct connect ? I shoved some 8" pipe in there to get it past the smoke chamber that's all


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## bholler (Oct 29, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> I got the poisoning while ice fishing. Never in the house. And what Koloafies it a direct connect ? I shoved some 8" pipe in there to get it past the smoke chamber that's all


And that is a direct connect not a slammer.

I don't care where you got it I would think after the first time you would be more careful.


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