# NEWBIE HERE.  HELP!!  BUYING an INSERT.  TICK TOCK.



## jshinkle (Dec 23, 2010)

First Day on the Forum.  (any forum for that matter)
Thanks for all the help so far.  I am in the market for a new insert to help offset the gas bill.

I've lived in my curent house for 6 months and have not lit a single fire.  I've assumed it will put off no heat.
There are so many different wood inserts, I don't know where to start.

Before it get into this discussion too deep, I should make a confession.  I have a flatscreen above my fireplace.  This was a recent addition.  I was tearing out the mirror above the mantle and thought it would be a good place for the tv.  I understand the threat that an insert would create to my Vizio 42" 1080 VIA, but the TV is not moving. We love it.  I have a very large living room in a 2300 sf single level ranch.  We sit pretty far from the TV so it is just right for a recliner or slouched down in the couch.

Problem 1-  Is the TV really at risk?  I would like some experience on this one.  I don't mind the BS but I would like sombody that has taken temperatures above their insert or has a TV mounted above the insert.

Problem 2-  There are about 200 inserts.  Which ones are good?  Every time I find an insert that I like I read 50 negative reviews about the insert.  Operators maybe??  I am looking for a flush style-$2,500-$3,000.00- with a large viewing window and of course high performance.  
Here is a few that I have been considering.  

-Clydesdale
-VC Montpelier
-Regency Alterra-  Long Lead Time!!
-Osburn 2200
-Lopi Declaration

I have not done any pricing so let me know if I am way out of line on my $$.  I WILL do the install myself.  Call me stupid, but I think of myself as a handyman. 

CLOCK's TICKING.  9 Days til D-Day!

Thanks to all.


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## byteme (Dec 23, 2010)

I have a very similar set up as you've depicted. My flat screen tv is about the same location as yours. I had a Harman Accentra pellet insert installed about three weeks ago. The temperature above the insert is only a few degrees warmer than ambient air temps -- at the TV there is absolutely no heat from the insert. We live in a large home, about 3900sf, and the insert has significantly reduced our use of oil to heat the house and maintains the family room at 71 degrees and adjacent rooms at 68 degrees. As for cost, the insert was about $3700 but qualified for the tax credit and I received one ton of pellets as part of the deal.

Hope this helps.


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## weezer4117 (Dec 23, 2010)

. . . PIPER . . . said:
			
		

> First Day on the Forum.  (any forum for that matter)
> Thanks for all the help so far.  I am in the market for a new insert to help offset the gas bill.
> 
> I've lived in my curent house for 6 months and have not lit a single fire.  I've assumed it will put off no heat.
> ...


there are alot of other things to consider other than price and your tv!! i can tell you now that you have way to many combustibles around the fireplace. the insert cannot be mounted flush with combustibles so close (each appliance will differ slightley) is your chimney masonary? have you had it inspected? LOTS of things that need to be done before even considering a insert. BTW welcome to the forum!!


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## Lburg (Dec 23, 2010)

The temperature 12" above my Regency I2400 insert is 83 ydegrees.  I installed my insert and liner and didn't have any problems.  I had to use an offset adapter because the flue didn't match up with the insert outlet.


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## begreen (Dec 23, 2010)

The biggest concern may be the surrounding woodwork clearance created by the shadowbox trim. The tv is probably ok, but if it heat turned out to be a problem, a mantel shield would probably solve the issue. 

I am surprised you are finding 50 negative reviews about any insert mentioned, or 50 reviews period. The Alterra is too new to have many reviews at all. Given the size of the house I would consider a much larger insert like the Declaration.


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## jshinkle (Dec 23, 2010)

Weezer-

Yes, my chimney is masonry. No, I have not had it inspected.  It does need cleaned.  
Do I really need to worry about combustibles?  I am nervous about the carpet, and I do not plan to have the Christmas decor on the mantle, but I never considered anything else a threat.


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## jotulguy (Dec 23, 2010)

. . . PIPER . . . said:
			
		

> Weezer-
> 
> Yes, my chimney is masonry. No, I have not had it inspected.  It does need cleaned.
> Do I really need to worry about combustibles?  I am nervous about the carpet, and I do not plan to have the Christmas decor on the mantle, but I never considered anything else a threat.


16 inches in front of the door of the insert must be non-combustible. Depending on what insert you choose they all have different clearances to wood trim around the fireplace facing. You will have to consider that when making a choice.


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## jshinkle (Dec 23, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> The biggest concern may be the surrounding woodwork clearance created by the shadowbox trim. The tv is probably ok, but if it heat turned out to be a problem, a mantel shield would probably solve the issue.
> 
> I am surprised you are finding 50 negative reviews about any insert mentioned, or 50 reviews period. The Alterra is too new to have many reviews at all. Given the size of the house I would consider a much larger insert like the Declaration.



OK, 50 negative reviews was a lie.  But the ratings page on this website did not have too much nice to say about the montpelier or the clydesdale.  Ill check into the declaration.  Anybody have pricing on one?


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## Dix (Dec 23, 2010)

How are the wires run to the Vizio? Outside or inside of the FP?


Ash will float up, and eventually settle inside the TV, settling on cooling fans, transformers, etc. My 2 cents, most don't listen, but I'm putting it out there, yet again.


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## jshinkle (Dec 23, 2010)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

> How are the wires run to the Vizio? Outside or inside of the FP?
> 
> 
> Ash will float up, and eventually settle inside the TV, settling on cooling fans, transformers, etc. My 2 cents, most don't listen, but I'm putting it out there, yet again.




The wires are ran in the sheetrocked, insulated, wood-framed wall behind the TV.  Behind the wall there is some kind of hard grey board that I am not familiar with(it is similar to a cement board, but harder like glass) and behind it is the masonry of the chimney.


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## holland_patrick (Dec 23, 2010)

the lopi should be great for ya....

as long as it fits...


The other thing your going to need is a hearth extension.

I have an avalon and i love mine but lopi is in the travis family so your good to go


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## begreen (Dec 23, 2010)

I see 3 ratings of the Clydesdale in the review section, all are positive, which I would say also reflects the general response on this insert. It's a good unit, so is the Lopi. Call local dealers for pricing.


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## Install fire 1 (Dec 23, 2010)

The Altera is the same firebox as the I1200 platform.

The clean face cast front is nice. I have put in a handful of these with great results.

You can order with or without the fan. The Altera 1200 is no fan , and the 1250 has a fan. The units will be different in height.

3 to 5 inches different if i recall correctly.

The flue outlet system on these inserts are great. You fasten your liner to the removable collar and slide the insert in. No need to fight to get a positive connection. You have two options of standard and offset right from the factory.

Can make tight height requirements easy.


HTH


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## jshinkle (Dec 23, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I see 3 ratings of the Clydesdale in the review section, all are positive, which I would say also reflects the general response on this insert. It's a good unit, so its the Lopi. Call local dealers for pricing.



You are sure right about the Clydesdale reviews, they look great.  I guess I was remembering the VC Montpelier.  However, I am sure there are some very satisfied VC customers out there as well.  

Thanks for all the help.  You guys are great.  This is the hardest product I have ever researched for purchasing.  I'll update soon.


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## Eaglecraft (Dec 23, 2010)

I can only speak to the Hearthstone Clydesdale insert, having just completed the installation (DIY) today. For various reasons, the installation took a lot longer than I expected. I hope to post my compete installation experience with pics later. 

The Clydesdale is a quality unit. There were a few issues that I discovered when I uncrated the insert, but these were readily resolved by the Dealer in concert with Hearthstone. I am very satisfied with the look and feel of the unit. Of course I have no operation experience with the insert, but I plan to report on its performance as time goes forward. FYI I purchased the unit for $3445. That price included the blue/black enamel coating, the optional end caps and shipping.

However, looking at the photos of your fireplace, the Clydesdale would probably not meet Hearthstone's installation requirements (which are available on their web site). For example Clearance to Combustibles from Clydesdale, (a) sidewall = 12 inches, (b) mantle and top trim (anything combustible like a TV) = 27 inches, (c) Trim = 9 inches. A clearance of 18 inches is required from the front of the Clydesdale to combustible material - like a hardwood floor.


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## JCR1709 (Dec 24, 2010)

Just had a Regency Alterra insert CI1250 installed. Photos attached. Only had a few fires so far, but the air temperature measured digitally above the unit seems to only be about 2 degrees higher than the surrounding
area. This is with the fan on high. So far, it's doing a great job heating my house. Oil burner turned off, it's maintaining 70 f throughout. Am experimenting with leaving the fan on for the forced hot air vent system to circulate the heat since there are two returns in the same room as the unit. The air does not feel as warm as when the fan turns on automatically from the oil burner, but again, the house is maintaining 70 f. 

I bought the unit without much feedback from others cautiously. I didn't have an example of the unit to look at other than the free standing wood stove version of the unit from a dealer 30 miles away. At least I was able to see the door style and firebox (identical to the inserts)

I went with this one because:

Contemporary looks, rather flush install. The unit and the cast faceplate is clean looking. After entertaining the idea of some other inserts (Vermont Casting Montpelier, Quadrafire Voyageur) their looks and faceplates were way too ornate for me. I thought it silly to install an insert with these ornate faceplates that try to mimic the look of trim around it, when it is already going to be installed in my case with decorative trim already there. Glass is unobstructed also. 

Size of the Unit: I ended up installing this unit about 6" above the original hearth height. I found bricks to match the original 1950 bricks and mortared them in two courses high. Put cement blocks behind the bricks at the same height to support the back of the unit. I like this because it is a little more ergonomically correct for me to load, clean, etc. I hate the idea of the unit sitting at floor level. I also did not want to eat up floor space with a raised hearth. Can vacuum with ease not having to get around a raised hearth. I also felt confident with the unit raised up I was able to run metal conduit cable from the basement into the firebox via way of the original ash dump hole. My electrical receptacle to plug the unit in is just behind the bricks and is staying cool there. It is concealed, but to make it code, it is controlled by a switch I mounted in the side of the surrounding trim. I also hated the idea of an electrical cord strung across the living room to plug in the blower. None of the photos in the sales brochures for any inserts ever show the ugly side of the electrical cord coming out from them.  I'm guessing with your tv mounted with concealed wires, you are like me in this aspect!

Also, with the size of the unit and being raised up the cast faceplate just perfectly covered my fireplace opening, overlapping the brick by 1 1/2" at the top and only about 1/2" on each side. Did not need the optional backing plate to cover the firebox opening. I also hated that idea. 

Price was bearable.

Unit is sold as  a medium  size, firebox is rather small. (Have to get used to putting rather small logs 18" max, smaller split the better) My concern with a larger unit was I would be making bigger fires and possibly that would make the room it is installed in too warm. 

My combustible clearances were also met with this unit. The facia wood trim above the unit is less than 1" thick so is not included in the clearances. The main mantle (6" deep) is high enough above the unit (measured from the top of the fuel door) to meet the clearances, even when raised up as it is. 

Hope this helps, am also looking for good advice from other also.


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## krex1010 (Dec 24, 2010)

ok first bit of advice, TAKE YOUR TIME, if you dont already have a few cords of seasoned wood at your house then you really will have trouble getting satisfactory fuel for this winter.  epa inserts and stoves require seaoned wood, and true seasoned wood is hard to buy in most places, regardless of what the wood seller says.  if you jump on an insert and buy try to burn green wood you are not going to lower your gas bills much this year and you will likely be back on here complaining that your new stove isn't working right. get your wood first, then get your stove.  if you are buying wood i would say buy it at minimum of 6 months prior to heating season even if the wood you are buying is supposedly "seasoned" most wood dealers consider 3 month old wood to be seasoned, but 3 moth old wood will not burn very well in an epa stove/insert.

secong you need to decide what size stove you need, inserts dont radiate as much heat as a freestanding stove and flush inserts radiate much less. for your home and climate i would say you need an insert with at least a 2.5 cubic foot firebox.  dont get caught up in how many btu's and how much square footage a brochure says a stove will heat.  heating capacity is based on firebox size, thats the number that matters when sizing your stove/insert. and if you are getting an nsert i would not even consider an insert without a blower.  i know some people have inserts without blowers and say they are happy, but ask anyone who has an insert with a blower and they will tell you they rarley turn it off. get a blower, its the only way to really get the heat out of an insert.

as for the stoves you mentioned, i believe the regency, while a good stove, is vastly undersized for your home and has no blower.  the lopi declaration is a good stove, and is probably the right size.  most of the brands you mentioned are good stoves. in fact most companies are putting out really good products these days.  vermont castings has some issues that if you search around here you can read about.  but the vast majority of the complaints and negative reviews you read are the result of 3 things, unseasoned wood, bad install, and an undersized stove.

so take your time, learn as much as you can BEFORE buying your stove, that way YOU know that you are choosing the right stove and you are not depending on someone else to make the decision for you. these forums are a great resource, many knowledgable folks here.  dont, assume the salesman at the stove shop knows more than you, because alot of them dont heat with wood and dont know their products very well. 

also i would get a certified chimney sweep to clean and inspect your chimney right away,  just to make sure everything is safe and sound.

good luck in your search, welcome to the forum, use it, the people here will be happy to help you and answer your questions and give advice, i know it helped me a ton when i was shopping.


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## Coup633 (Feb 26, 2011)

My first post here as I too am into the research stage of changing my old fireplace into an efficient home heater. 

As far as the TV above the fireplace, that may not be good for the TV or you. Many people begin to have neck problems because they mount their flatscreens up high like above the fireplace. Sounds like you are very far back so this may not be too much of a problem but if you feel like you are having neck issues or shoulder problems it may be attributed to the fact that the screen is too high. As far as the heat from the fireplace, I would also be wary of soot getting up there and damaging it. Anyway, looks like we are about the same road of deciding what to put in the hole. 

I am interested in the Lopi Declaration or the Regency Alterra but wish they had a larger firebox for the regency. The Declaration looks great but that stupid surround looks like a mistake. I really don't like it. After this season I plan to tear off the brick facade on my fireplace, raise the hearth and reface it all with natural travertine stone probably all the way to the ceiling. I plan to take plenty of photos and document the process and will add them to the forum here if it is welcome. Everyone likes pictures. I will also be doing drywall work around the fireplace so that will give me access to the outlet so I will be able to hardwire the blower to it so I don't have to have electrical cords runing across the baseboard. I plan to start this project in June so I will have it all finished for the late fall. I have been looking at the different inserts and have not made a final decision. I am really hoping that Regency comes out with a larger Alterra as that one look really secksey. Any advice here is well appreciated and I have alot of things to look through on here. I would never consider not getting a blower in the insert as there would be little reason to even purchase an insert in the first place if it couldn't blow the heat into the room. I don't have any expectations on being able to continually heat my whole house (2,300 sqft) with this unit being at one end of the house and the bedrooms at the other. If it heats the living room, the kitchen and maybe my office than I would be very pleased. It seems that the Lopi Declaration is the top priced model on the market at a whopping $3500 plus the liner and installation. Not sure about the Regency but I feel that only being able to put 18' logs into a 1.4cuft firebox is not going to be adequite. I do like the Lopi's 2.9sqft firebox and that you can put in 24' logs. I just hate that surround, it looks like a mistake!  Okay I will sit back and scan through the information here on the forums and if there is any interest on this forum I can post my decision on which insert to purchase and my plans, and photos as I go with the project. Since this is going to be a refacing as well as adding the insert it may take a couple months to finish.


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## Jimbob (Feb 26, 2011)

Whatever insert you buy, make sure it has a 1-piece removable baffle. This will make annual cleaning a snap.
Simply remove the baffle, close the door, then sweep the chimney, letting the soot fall into the firebox.
Let the dust settle, then open the door, lay a sheet of newspaper over the soot, and leave it there till you build your next fire.
Re-install baffle.
The newspaper is there to keep soot off your hands while you re-install the baffle.


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## gibson (Feb 26, 2011)

The size of your house with the looks of your hearth suggests to me that a Jotul 550 Rockland might be a good fit.  I have one in a 2800 sf house and it puts a good dent in the oil bill.  It sits flush and with the heat shield, that it appears you will need, you will not get hot near your TV.  Good luck.


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## Jotul_Rockland (Feb 26, 2011)

Agreed. Rockland should be considered. Its a fantastic unit with many happy customers


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## begreen (Feb 26, 2011)

Coup, start a new thread for your questions. It will get more focused attention and answers. If you can post a picture of your current setup, that always is helpful. And welcome to the forums!


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## bigdaddybry (Feb 26, 2011)

Sen. John Blutarsky said:
			
		

> The size of your house with the looks of your hearth suggests to me that a Jotul 550 Rockland might be a good fit.  I have one in a 2800 sf house and it puts a good dent in the oil bill.  It sits flush and with the heat shield, that it appears you will need, you will not get hot near your TV.  Good luck.



+1. Do it. Love my Rockland. I've never had any problems with it. This will be the third full season. Get yourself some wood now, btw, for next season.


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## Beardog (Feb 27, 2011)

I have very similar set up with tv above fireplace.  Did this after stove was in for a couple months.  I have the Clydesdale insert and temps are not an issue.  I do have a bit more space thought with a 9 ft ceiling.  Not sure what is more fun to watch, the 55 in tv or the clydesdale at full tilt, but the setup works for me!


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## Install fire 1 (Feb 27, 2011)

The alterra looks great.

Good luck.


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