# Fascinating article about Hardwood vs Softwood pellets.........



## bostonfan49 (Nov 2, 2014)

very interesting read, sure to cause some controversy! Excluding the part about Wood Stoves, the end result is the quality of the raw materials and the moisture content. We all know that there are some garbage pellets out there, so to me this article says: Since all the products say Super and or Premium Pellets than I should be looking for pellets with the lowest Moisture Content.....assuming that the number is real! In my 5th season I have burned Vermont Softwood Pellets about 90% of the time. I do get a "black" M55 pattern on my glass but I never get clinkers and so far the lowest ash of any product. Every other pellet, Hardwood or Hardwood mix, gives clinkers and mega ash.  I never really paid any attention to the moisture content so now I am going to be checking whenever I am out and see pellets for sale.
........then again, this is just this persons opinion....
http://allaboutwoodpellets.com/hardwood_softwood.php

Thanks, Bill


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 2, 2014)

Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves.   Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves?  Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets...  Give a @#$%^%ing break!  Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.

I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.

And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood.  It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet.  That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.


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## Tonyray (Nov 2, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves.   Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves?  Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets...  Give a @#$%^%ing break!  Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.
> 
> I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.
> 
> And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood.  It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet.  That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.


_this part is soooooooo true.:_
But, remember that with wood pellets, they all start out as sawdust. And regardless of whether the sawdust is hardwood, softwood or a mixture of the two, they will all get compressed to the same high density regardless of whether the sawdust is oak, pine, maple, fir, cherry or any other species of wood. This is an absolute fact and something that is often a source of confusion for many wood pellet burners. Therefore, there really is no such thing as a “hard” wood pellet or a “soft” wood pellet….there’s just wood pellets!


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## bostonfan49 (Nov 2, 2014)

So Tonyray, If they are presumably all compressed to the same density, why then can't you have a softwood and a hard wood pellet? If it says Hard or Soft...than that is what you have.......! The Vermont softies have a moisture content of 4-6%, not sure what this range could be? What I am seeing a lot of this year is "Salt Content" Damn....! Now I have to check my stove for Blood Pressure and Diabetes....Don't want to offend anyone hear, but what's next Gluten Free pellets?

Thanks, Bill


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## Swedishchef (Nov 2, 2014)

I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).

Interesting read.

Andrew


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## bostonfan49 (Nov 2, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).
> 
> Interesting read.
> 
> Andrew


Andrew, one pellet is still made of hardwood and one is made from softwood, so they have to be different and therfore would burn differently....yes?

Bill


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## LuvMyPellets (Nov 2, 2014)

So someone creates a website" anonymously": Websters:without any name acknowledged, as that of author, contributor, or the like:  Should this be taken as an expert opinion or just another opinion without factual basis. The contact information lists an address that appears to be a bank.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 2, 2014)

Bill: all types of wood are composed roughly of the same compounds/components. All else being equal ( impurities, moisture content, etc) I presume the dust from hardwoods and softwoods would be very similar in texture, etc. so if the pellet companies can press the same weight of softwood or hardwood into the pellet mold, the density will be the same. Therefore you should have the same heat output. 

The best way to reality determine would be to perform bomb calorimetry on one pellet from each pellet company, that would give you the energy (heat) contained in the pellets.

Andrew


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## metalsped (Nov 2, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Kind of like seeing 'fancy' fruit preserves.   Ever see 'plain' or 'sloppy' fruit preserves?  Now, someone is using 'Platinum' pellets...  Give a @#$%^%ing break!  Just because it says 'Platinum', some fool will plunk down $400 a ton.
> 
> I've never seen moisture content on any bag of pellets.
> 
> And this article says exactly what I said in another thread > density is the key and not whether it's hardwood or softwood.  It depends on how much sawdust is compressed into each pellet.  That's where the fallacy of 'hotter' pellets comes from.



Okanagan Gold pellets have the content listed on the bags. This is the platinum version, but the same verbage applies


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## Tonyray (Nov 2, 2014)

bostonfan49 said:


> ...! Now I have to check my stove for Blood Pressure and Diabetes....Don't want to offend anyone hear, but what's next Gluten Free pellets?


U made me laugh today Bostonfan....
Softwoods and hardwoods burning debates are carried over from Savy Wood stove owners who knew there was a difference.[I think Softwoods burn better or slower. not sure]
But Other than seasoning, Firewood went right into the stove without the Manufacturing process  that Those woods go thru before becoming Pellet fuel so things change.,,.....But, some People Still Swear by 1 or the other Just as we all swear by our Favorite Pellet brand..
My Uncle stills swears by a Buick no matter how much they change it..


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## Swedishchef (Nov 2, 2014)

When it comes to wood stoves, hardwood is more dense than softwood. The burning process is identicle but the hardwood burns for longer. In perfect conditions, 2 identical pieces (1 softwood and 1 hardwood) would give off as energy (heat) per minute (for example) except that the hardwood would give off heat for a longer period of time.

But when it comes to pellets,  I believe it is all in the marketing and making consumers believe one or the others.

Andrew


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## Newschool (Nov 2, 2014)

He is completely wrong about the 2nd half of this:

"This is because in a wood stove, hardwood will burn hotter and longer than softwood will and softwood will burn much dirtier."

To have something so basic wrong, it is hard to believe the rest...


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## Swedishchef (Nov 2, 2014)

Newschool said:


> He is completely wrong about the 2nd half of this:
> 
> "This is because in a wood stove, hardwood will burn hotter and longer than softwood will and softwood will burn much dirtier."
> 
> To have something so basic wrong, it is hard to believe the rest...


 
I didn't get that far down in the article.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 2, 2014)

Pellets are NOT all the same density just because the process is the same.  It depends on how much force is put into pushing the wood into the die holes.  Like I've said before, some brands give me 4 buckets of pellets and what I'm using now gives me 3 so the bulk density is different.  For the same drop in pellets, the higher density pellets give me more flame so I have to close down my feed gate to keep the btu/hr close to the same as I had with the less dense pellets that required the feed gate to be wide open.  You're burning cellulose and lignin, whether it's hardwood or softwood.  Like Swedishchef said, it's all in the marketing. Buy your platinum, your gold, your super duper heat bombs, or your HD load.  They're all cellulose and lignin, and who knows what else.


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## Ranger72 (Nov 2, 2014)

I coat all my pellets in snake oil before burning them.


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## railfanron (Nov 2, 2014)

I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
Ron


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## Lake Girl (Nov 3, 2014)

LuvMyPellets said:


> So someone creates a website" anonymously": Websters:without any name acknowledged, as that of author, contributor, or the like:  Should this be taken as an expert opinion or just another opinion without factual basis. The contact information lists an address that appears to be a bank.



For fun I did a google street view ... "Look up, look way up and you'll see Rusty" (sorry, Friendly Giant fan when I was a kid - Canadian kids show.  Rusty is a rooster).  I digress - apartments or offices are likely above that bank...


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## Swedishchef (Nov 3, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Pellets are NOT all the same density just because the process is the same.  It depends on how much force is put into pushing the wood into the die holes.  Like I've said before, some brands give me 4 buckets of pellets and what I'm using now gives me 3 so the bulk density is different.  For the same drop in pellets, the higher density pellets give me more flame so I have to close down my feed gate to keep the btu/hr close to the same as I had with the less dense pellets that required the feed gate to be wide open.  You're burning cellulose and lignin, whether it's hardwood or softwood.  Like Swedishchef said, it's all in the marketing. Buy your platinum, your gold, your super duper heat bombs, or your HD load.  They're all cellulose and lignin, and who knows what else.



So essentially, you could be using hardwood pellets that are less dense than softwood pellets due to the density of the packing.

I due love how our tendency in society has gone to using nice acronyms that catch people's eyes. The world of marketing is booming! " Buy our extreme titanium++ nuclear pellets, you'll get more heat that an average pellet". Kinda like "Extreme 25 minute workout and diet plan". lol

Andrew


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## Swedishchef (Nov 3, 2014)

railfanron said:


> I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
> Ron


FWIW, I don't buy pellets, I just assumed when writing my comments that all bags were the same density (IE 40 lbs for 2 cu ft or whatever).

I still think someone needs to do some calorimetry to find out what the best yield/company is. They have done it with eco logs in the wood stove industry, someone should do it with pellets.

Andrew


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 3, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> FWIW, I don't buy pellets, I just assumed when writing my comments that all bags were the same density (IE 40 lbs for 2 cu ft or whatever).
> 
> I still think someone needs to do some calorimetry to find out what the best yield/company is. They have done it with eco logs in the wood stove industry, someone should do it with pellets.
> 
> Andrew




There is a range of densities in what is produced and they also test pellets for the heat produced per pound. 

So all that information is available, you just need to find it.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 3, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> So essentially, you could be using hardwood pellets that are less dense than softwood pellets due to the density of the packing.
> 
> I due love how our tendency in society has gone to using nice acronyms that catch people's eyes. The world of marketing is booming! " Buy our extreme titanium++ nuclear pellets, you'll get more heat that an average pellet". Kinda like "Extreme 25 minute workout and diet plan". lol
> 
> Andrew


That is exactly what happened to me one year.

http://www.woodpelletfuel.org/Carolina_Wood_Pellets/
These pellets were extremely light and were the ones that filled up 4 buckets instead of 3 that I get now with my present 100% oak pellets.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 3, 2014)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> There is a range of densities in what is produced and they also test pellets for the heat produced per pound.
> 
> So all that information is available, you just need to find it.


The key phrase is 'per pound'.


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## Lake Girl (Nov 3, 2014)

Found this little tidbit on http://www.woodfibersinc.com/products/heating_pellets/
*Softwood vs Hardwood pellets*
Through the pelletizing process, wood is ground fine then the sawdust is compressed to make wood pellets. Although hardwood is naturally more dense, after compression, both the hardwood and the softwood pellets have equal density. But, because most softwood species have* higher levels of resins, softwood pellets will produce more BTUs per pound generating more heat and producing less ash than hardwood heating pellets.  *(bold my emphasis)

They have both hardwood and softwood and have done the Twin Ports Testing for both:
http://www.woodfibersinc.com/i/d/hardwood_test.pdf
http://www.woodfibersinc.com/i/d/softwood_test_.pdf

Edit:  Both these pellets are likely made on the same equipment with the difference being feedstock not compression.

However, add the variances in compression depending on manufacturer and their equipment, you can have very different burn properties.


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## rona (Nov 3, 2014)

After reading this article it sounds like a writer hired by a politician.
  When you compare different pellets and the heat produced  keep a eye open for the length of the pellets as the bigger they are the more room they take and there will be open areas. Versus smaller pellets that naturally fill up voids and produce more heat. If you are burning a multifuel stove and compare pellets versus corn or wheat you will see what I mean. One could also compare the amount of waste or ashes left after burning and come up with totally different answers. This would also depend on what type of exh venting you have. A 36 inch pipe out the back would act different then a 25 foot vertical system.
 Basically one party could have to empty his ash pan once a day and I know another party that empties his once a month due to the draft from his 25 foot chimney sucking up the ash through the chimney.  Looking at that I wonder how many btus is also being sucked up that chimney?
   Maybe the lesson learned is don't believe everything you read on the label- try a few bags first if possible then if you like that brand buy a larger amount and hope that company uses the same supplier for your bigger purchase.
   Then we have the concept that some stoves are more efficient then others because of design features. In other words how much heat is captured and circulated in the home rather then blown out the exh pipe.
    I think I have opened a large can of worms but these are all different subjects a newby should be concerned with and probably should be addressed when asking for advice. I do suggest one should look deeper then the picture on the brochure. If possible talk to someone who has owned a similar model for a couple of seasons.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 3, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> Bill: all types of wood are composed roughly of the same compounds/components. All else being equal ( impurities, moisture content, etc) I presume the dust from hardwoods and softwoods would be very similar in texture, etc. so if the pellet companies can press the same weight of softwood or hardwood into the pellet mold, the density will be the same. Therefore you should have the same heat output.
> 
> Andrew


Anybody who has worked with wood knows that not all woods are equal. They differ in more ways than density and moisture content. Some woods have such high mineral content that they quickly dull even carbide cutting tools. Others scorch at much lower temperatures than the rest, still others are so oily that finishes won't adhere to them. I would expect those properties to influence the burn properties of the wood as well.
I doubt that pellets are made from exotic spiecies of wood, but even the intrinsic property differences between Oak and Spruce should lead to different burn characteristics. They are really not made of the same stuff or, at the very least, not in the same proportions.

The caloric content is substantially the parameter that we buy pellets for. It is still not reasonable to say that BTU/$ is the only thing of importance. Differences in the cleanliness (dust and fines), resin and creosote production, ash content and residual ash are also important... at least they are to me.

Just my opinion. You are welcome to your own.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 3, 2014)

Harvey Schneider said:


> Anybody who has worked with wood knows that not all woods are equal. They differ in more ways than density and moisture content. Some woods have such high mineral content that they quickly dull even carbide cutting tools. Others scorch at much lower temperatures than the rest, still others are so oily that finishes won't adhere to them. I would expect those properties to influence the burn properties of the wood as well.
> I doubt that pellets are made from exotic spiecies of wood, but even the intrinsic property differences between Oak and Spruce should lead to different burn characteristics. They are really not made of the same stuff or, at the very least, not in the same proportions.
> 
> The caloric content is substantially the parameter that we buy pellets for. It is still not reasonable to say that BTU/$ is the only thing of importance. Differences in the cleanliness (dust and fines), resin and creosote production, ash content and residual ash are also important... at least they are to me.
> ...



Well said, you've proved me wrong!! I don't do pellets. Hell, I should actually heat with electricity since it's so cheap around here. I just like wood heating and there's no source for pellets where I live so I went with a wood stove.

I do think most people heat with pellets to save money. So for *me*, most BTUs / $ are what would be important ( I even see threads on this forum about how the prices have risen). And calorimetry would help determine best BTU/ $. From what I understand about pellet stoves (and I could be wrong), some of the factors you mention have to do with the different makes/models of pellet stoves and the burn technologies involved (bottom feed, etc etc).

All that to say, with a woodstove, you've got softwood and hardwood. At the same MC, hardwood burns longer because they are more dense not matter what intrinsic properties you look at.

But I am looking into a pellet stove for my next move and it seems a lot more complicated that a wood stove...may still give it a try though.

Thanks!

Andrew


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## 8ball (Nov 3, 2014)

I have burned hardwood in every type of woodstove, I mean 40 different woodstoves. I have burned very little softwood. Hardwood in a woodstove as well as my Wiseway pellet stove decomposes from active flame to deep beds of charcoal and softwood does not, it goes from flame to ash. I believe there is more to the hardwood / softwood debate, there is a difference and the Wiseway demonstrates it, when I burn soft pellets wiseway goes from flame to ash, but when I use hard pellets I get a long burning charcoal bed that is slow to burn away and causes me to have to manage this charcoal accumulation.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 3, 2014)

Agreed. But I am just trying to compare BTUs.

I'll sit back and just read this thread, I am out of my league.

Andrew


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## SmokeEater (Nov 3, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> I was attracted to the title of this thread. Personally, I don't have a pellet stove. But in my head (which works in a somewhat scientific way) I have always considered pellets to be the same density: if they are pressed into the same shape/size/weight from dust (either softwood dust or hardwood dust) then it shouldn't change a thing. All other factors being equal, it should make no difference. Some companies are better quality than others (different binders, fillers, etc).
> 
> Interesting read.
> 
> Andrew


I don't believe any binders are included in the pellets.  There is binder put into some biomass pellets other than wood because that particular biomass may not have enough or any lignin content.  When the sized and dried wood material is put into the pelletizer, the tremendous forces involved heat the material to a fairly high temperature and the lignin in the wood plasticizes and binds the pellet together.  Thus no binder needed.


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## SmokeEater (Nov 3, 2014)

railfanron said:


> I am just going to add this to the discussion. The Gross BTUs in a pound of completely dry wood is 8600 BTUs give or take a 100 or so NO MATTER what the species is. Based on this fact the density of the pellet is way more important than the kind of wood. Because all pellet stoves are volume/hour feeders you would get more heat out of a higher density pellet because the stove can feed more pounds/hour. I don't have a need to burn softwood so I can't say they burn hotter, longer or whatever. Bear in mind softwood is lighter per cubic foot than hardwood so the pellets would have to be compressed to a higher density to have the same volume per pound.
> Ron


I have read testing procedures using a device to produce very small quantities of pellets, but has many possible variable inputs.  Many varieties of wood material was tested and it looks from the data that softwood material, on average, was formed into wood pellets that were somewhat less in density than hardwood material.   The beech formed pellets that had an average density of 1.02 g/cm3, while an oak (no variety listed) formed pellets that had a density of 1.2 g/com3.  Pine/spruce pellets were compressed to an average density of 1.09 g/cm3.  All of these pellets are compressed to a density greater than water.  So once the pellet is formed, there is no distinction between hardwood and softwood as far as density goes.


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## briansol (Nov 3, 2014)

this site (linked to, not hearth.com) is a joke.  all it's missing is 2342432 pop ups


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 3, 2014)

Frankly Scarlet, ...............................   Burn what you can find and can afford.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 4, 2014)

briansol said:


> this site is a joke.  all it's missing is 2342432 pop ups


How is that? I won't deny that I needed more information and I read up on this subject, admitted I was wrong and moved on. I am planning on moving to pellets in the next few months/year and I _thought_ I knew a bit about pellets but I was mistaken.

Feel free to move along to another website if you think it's "a joke". There's no need for condescending comments towards this site or other forum members.


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## bostonfan49 (Nov 4, 2014)

I agree! I posted this subject for an honest discussion, not to have someone make disparaging remarks!
Let's keep this civil or remove the whole thread.
Respectfully, Bill


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## briansol (Nov 4, 2014)

Swedishchef said:


> How is that? I won't deny that I needed more information and I read up on this subject, admitted I was wrong and moved on. I am planning on moving to pellets in the next few months/year and I _thought_ I knew a bit about pellets but I was mistaken.
> 
> Feel free to move along to another website if you think it's "a joke". There's no need for condescending comments towards this site or other forum members.


i'm referring to the linked _resource_, not hearth.com  
It's an op-ed piece at best

edited my post to be more clear.

I'm all for solid conversations about the topic here and certainly meant no harm by it.   Just don't take half of what that site says as fact, because it's not true.


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## purplereign (Nov 4, 2014)

Generally just lurk here, but some subjects I just can't leave alone.  FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process.  Lake Girl has the best info thus far on the difference between heat output of softwood vs. hardwood.  The resins in softwood can contribute to a higher Btu value for softwoods (amount depends on the actual softwood species).  Some of these resins are destroyed in the furnish drying process, and some more in the extrusion process, but some remain in the pellets.  These resins offgas terpenes and various other volatile organic compounds which is what gives pine its characteristic smell.
Otherwise, the major differences in hardwood vs. softwood are mostly in the vascular structures that transport water and sap.  Most other differences (weight, color, density etc.) may be true in most cases, but there are usually exceptions for individual species on both sides.  So, SOME species of softwood pellets may produce more heat than SOME species of hardwood pellet, but it is far from a certainty.  The VERY BEST softwood pellet will likely produce more Btu/lb than the best hardwood pellet, but the difference will likely be 5% or less.
How much heat you get from your stove is an equation with far more variables than just the Btu value of your pellets.  Moisture content is certainly a factor, but the pelleting process itself removes a fairly consistent amount of water, and generally results in pellets coming to you in a pretty narrow and consistent range of moisture content.  (Thus you see the generalization on bags of pellets "Less than 5% moisture").  By the way - know what you are looking at with the  claimed Btu value that is printed on bags or available on manufacturers websites.  Btu value/lb may be figured in two ways - dry value or actual value.  Because some heat is necessary to drive off the remaining (< 5%) moisture in a pellet, the Btu value of the pellet as it comes to you is somewhat less than the Btu value figured based on the pellet being absolutely dry.  Since your pellets will never be absolutely dry (0% moisture) the dry value Btu rating is essentially worthless.  Because Btu value is a selling point, however, some manufacturers like to trumpet the dry basis number as a selling point - a questionable practice at best.  I have seen any number of posts here where folks have been tripped up (deceived, actually) by this practice.
Density is important, to a point, as is pellet geometry.  I can densify pellets to the point they are nearly bulletproof - they will be extremely hard, super shiny, and darker colored due to the greater heat produced in the extrusion process   Better pellet?  Not to many folks - they can be harder to ignite and will burn slower.  A given weight of wood will require a given amount of air to combust it properly. Therefore, more air is required for a denser pellet to burn properly and completely.  The end result for many is incompletely burned pellets (invariably referred to as "ash") being pushed out of the burn pot and accumulating elsewhere.  Without an air adjustment, the flame will look lazy, glass will darken quickly, heat output will be low and the stove will require frequent cleaning.  Those in the know can adjust their stove and enjoy the benefits of the denser pellet....others will condemn the pellets as "trash"and "full of bark".  Which way would you produce them - as good as they can be, or ?
Pellet geometry, especially length, also affects perceived heat output.  Your feed auger, working at a set speed, will deliver significantly differing amounts of longer vs. shorter pellets to your burn pot.  How different will depend on your particular stove's auger design - diameter and flighting design being especially important.  The greater weight of pellets delivered per revolution will obviously produce more heat (again, if and only if, the proper amount of combustion air is provided).
Learning all you can about how your stove operates will be of considerable more value to you quibbling about Btu value of hardwood vs. softwood pellets!


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## Lake Girl (Nov 4, 2014)

purplereign said:


> FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process.



Thanks for the nod...  Wood Science & Technology degree? Does it deal more with the wood science or the instrumentation/machinery used for pelleting or some of both?  There's only a few mills in Wisconsin 

You forgot the entertainment value of the quibbling


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 4, 2014)

Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview!  I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post.  The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note.  So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview!  I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post.  The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note.  So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.


I have noticed an inverse relationship. The highest BTU/$ is often the cheapest pellets (they may also be the least expensive) . There is more to pellet selection than just BTU/$. They also have the most fines and the highest ash content.
We all have our priorities.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 4, 2014)

tjnamtiw said:


> Purplereign, excellent, intelligent overview!  I hope people took the time to read and digest the entire post.  The estimate of far less than 5% difference in heat value between the two types of pellets is important to note.  So if normal pellets are selling at one price, Super Premium Platinum Miraculous pellets should not cost more than 5% more.


lol


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## Swedishchef (Nov 4, 2014)

purplereign said:


> Generally just lurk here, but some subjects I just can't leave alone.  FWIW, I have a degree in Wood Science & Technology and also considerable experience in the pelleting process.  Lake Girl has the best info thus far on the difference between heat output of softwood vs. hardwood.  The resins in softwood can contribute to a higher Btu value for softwoods (amount depends on the actual softwood species).  Some of these resins are destroyed in the furnish drying process, and some more in the extrusion process, but some remain in the pellets.  These resins offgas terpenes and various other volatile organic compounds which is what gives pine its characteristic smell.
> Otherwise, the major differences in hardwood vs. softwood are mostly in the vascular structures that transport water and sap.  Most other differences (weight, color, density etc.) may be true in most cases, but there are usually exceptions for individual species on both sides.  So, SOME species of softwood pellets may produce more heat than SOME species of hardwood pellet, but it is far from a certainty.  The VERY BEST softwood pellet will likely produce more Btu/lb than the best hardwood pellet, but the difference will likely be 5% or less.
> How much heat you get from your stove is an equation with far more variables than just the Btu value of your pellets.  Moisture content is certainly a factor, but the pelleting process itself removes a fairly consistent amount of water, and generally results in pellets coming to you in a pretty narrow and consistent range of moisture content.  (Thus you see the generalization on bags of pellets "Less than 5% moisture").  By the way - know what you are looking at with the  claimed Btu value that is printed on bags or available on manufacturers websites.  Btu value/lb may be figured in two ways - dry value or actual value.  Because some heat is necessary to drive off the remaining (< 5%) moisture in a pellet, the Btu value of the pellet as it comes to you is somewhat less than the Btu value figured based on the pellet being absolutely dry.  Since your pellets will never be absolutely dry (0% moisture) the dry value Btu rating is essentially worthless.  Because Btu value is a selling point, however, some manufacturers like to trumpet the dry basis number as a selling point - a questionable practice at best.  I have seen any number of posts here where folks have been tripped up (deceived, actually) by this practice.
> Density is important, to a point, as is pellet geometry.  I can densify pellets to the point they are nearly bulletproof - they will be extremely hard, super shiny, and darker colored due to the greater heat produced in the extrusion process   Better pellet?  Not to many folks - they can be harder to ignite and will burn slower.  A given weight of wood will require a given amount of air to combust it properly. Therefore, more air is required for a denser pellet to burn properly and completely.  The end result for many is incompletely burned pellets (invariably referred to as "ash") being pushed out of the burn pot and accumulating elsewhere.  Without an air adjustment, the flame will look lazy, glass will darken quickly, heat output will be low and the stove will require frequent cleaning.  Those in the know can adjust their stove and enjoy the benefits of the denser pellet....others will condemn the pellets as "trash"and "full of bark".  Which way would you produce them - as good as they can be, or ?
> ...



That is one of the most intelligent things I read in the last few weeks. Amen!

All that to say, if you don't care about ash content and dust, and are simply looking for the best bang for your $, it's not worth paying $2/bag more for one brand over another ($4 vs $6) .....right?

Andrew


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