# how much electricity does boiler/circulators use???



## jpelizza (Mar 28, 2014)

recent high electric prices causing me to look at watt usage in my house.  last night i looked at my meter outside before i went to bed at 11pm, at 8am i had changed 12kwatt!
now i did run a 1500 watt space heater for 2 hrs in bathroom so thats 3kwatt of it.  only other things running are my econoburn 150, 2 zones of heat (2 small red grunfods circulators 9 years old), and i have 2 talco green 007-f5 running one on return and other supply i think near my boiler in garage.  i'm just shocked to think my boiler with a few circulators running is chewing up nearly 1kwatt/hr all night.  
if i have to switch out some circulators to ones that are more effecient i will.  my electric bill was 1400 kwatt for usage last month with 0.04 for delivery, and 0.25 for usuage  0.29 total per killwatt, huge bill

i've already added up the usuage for dryer, dishwasher, tv, and most other appliances and i still don't know how i'm using so much electric, i'm pinning it on the 2 talco 007-f5 circualtorys maybe??


----------



## jeffesonm (Mar 28, 2014)




----------



## DZL_Damon (Mar 28, 2014)

jeffesonm said:


> View attachment 130770


Whadda guy... you even put it up in my electrical costs!


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 28, 2014)

jeffesonm said:


> View attachment 130770


thanks for post!,  i just looked at my grundfos and on side it has p(w) labeld and 60/80/87 listed it is 3 speed so i'm guessing that my be the watt usage for each speed.

it so then my 2 talco (80.5 each) for 161watt/hr plus 2 grundfos at lets say highest watt of 87, so 174watt/hr.  thats 161 plus 174 is 335watt/hr plus what ever it is to run the econoburn 150 which ihave to figure out.  335watt x 9 hrs last night is 3015 watt or 3kwatt during that time thats if they are running constant.  12- 3(space heater), - 3 (4 circulators) = 6 kwatt left seems like alot for just boiler running and no other lighs/tv/computer on at all.


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 28, 2014)

i'm figuring the 2 talco i have at 80.5watt each run 24/7 as they are by boiler supply and return to my primary loop in basement.  so replacing just those two with an alpha1 could save me 120-140 watt/hr/24/7, adds up to like approx 100 kwatt/month!! might help some it looks like.


----------



## arbutus (Mar 28, 2014)

Currently pumping away in my basement:
Grundfos Alpha - 12 watts, pumping 2 gpm total through 4 x 1/2" pex loops, each 350' long.


----------



## maple1 (Mar 29, 2014)

They will use power, but I can't see your boiler & circs using that much. You're saying 1400 kwh/month? I'm at about 600 for whole house. Maybe get an electricity monitor and go from there. I'd get a Kill-a-watt meter (sp?) too, the whole house ones, or at least the one I have, is more of a general guide & not overly precise/accurate. After using mine ('Ematic') for a couple months, I think it is over-reporting what I'm using, by 10-20% or so. But it is still a handy tool when it comes to this stuff.

My loading unit has a Grundfos 15-58 on it, I think it specs about 60w. But it only runs when I'm burning, which is usually around 6 hours a day. My load circ is an Alpha on low, it only draws about 20 watts with half my zones calling. It's a honey. I have no boiler fan - so that's it for heating electrics. Besides zone valves, that is.


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 29, 2014)

maple1 said:


> They will use power, but I can't see your boiler & circs using that much. You're saying 1400 kwh/month? I'm at about 600 for whole house. Maybe get an electricity monitor and go from there. I'd get a Kill-a-watt meter (sp?) too, the whole house ones, or at least the one I have, is more of a general guide & not overly precise/accurate. After using mine ('Ematic') for a couple months, I think it is over-reporting what I'm using, by 10-20% or so. But it is still a handy tool when it comes to this stuff.
> 
> My loading unit has a Grundfos 15-58 on it, I think it specs about 60w. But it only runs when I'm burning, which is usually around 6 hours a day. My load circ is an Alpha on low, it only draws about 20 watts with half my zones calling. It's a honey. I have no boiler fan - so that's it for heating electrics. Besides zone valves, that is.


 
my last month was 1400 kwatt whole house.  i add most things up and i just can't get to 1400, so i/m figuring out now must be boiler and circulators making up difference.  i am getting a whole house monitor to start checking this out.  and yeah sounds like my 2 load circ switch them from talco to alpha should make a sign. difference.    i just checked again last night 11pm-8am used 11kwatt.  all that was really on was space heater for 2 hrs (3kwatt), and boiler, 2 load circs, and 3-4 zone circs.  seems like a sig. amount of power to use for just that.

thanks for post.

i don't have storage yet that is plan for summer to do,  this may help me as well since right now when cold is running alot, no real down time just idle time some.


----------



## BoilerMan (Mar 29, 2014)

Your electric dryer and range can be a huge factor, depending on use.  At 29cents per kWh, I'd looking into LP for those.  I'm generally around 400kWh / month, my wife stays home and we are energy aware, but do not have andthing special.  Older apliances, fridge from 1996, Maytag top load washer from the mid 80s etc.  

We are simply militant to turn things off when not in use and unplug anything electronic (I have most on switched outlets).  We are also on a well 200' with 3/4HP Goulds submersible I installed the largest well tank that was available at 86 gal.  This cycles the pump less avoiding lots of those power spikes when it starts. 

Figure out how to avoid any and all resistance electric heat wherever possible you have a seriously high electric rate, oil is way cheaper than 29 cents/kWh!  Get heat into those spaces with something else.

TS


----------



## BoilerMan (Mar 29, 2014)

Also can you integrate zone valves and delete a couple of circualtors.  Zone valves and one expensive smart circulator will cost much less to operate.

TS


----------



## maple1 (Mar 29, 2014)

Do you have a well? What kind of pump?

Fridges & freezers?

Those are the kinds of things that run all the time. Or can.

If you've got a well with a submerged pump - those can quietly churn the juice if there's a problem in the well that you don't know about.


----------



## DZL_Damon (Mar 29, 2014)

The newer zone valves are fantastic as well. The Taco Sentry ball valves use 1.44 watts while open (I'm guessing to run the LED and keep the capacitor topped off) and only 12.84 watts when charging the unit to open it after it's been off.  The Taco 570 valves I replaced used 21.6 watts to keep themselves open.


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 29, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Do you have a well? What kind of pump?
> 
> Fridges & freezers?
> 
> ...


i do have a well so i/m sure thats eating some electric as well.  soon i'll be turning all heat off and i'll know exactly the difference at night from heat to no heat, then whats left will be things like well pump, etc.  i have one freezer garage and i/m going to see how much that is drawing.  i have a fridge that i checked and it really isn't using much at all only 11watt when motor running then when no motor running its basically zero, 80 watts when doors open due to lights come on.  so fridge using some but not the culprit.

i'll have to check on what kind of pump for well


----------



## maple1 (Mar 29, 2014)

If you're measuring juice somehow now - then try just turning off your heating system stuff for a few hours after letting the fire die & see what that does. Right now is a good time to do that - if it's not real cold where you're at right now. 

6 circs @ 60 watts for 9 hours would be 3.2 kwh. Two 007's @ 80 watts would be 1.4 kwh. Don't know what your draft fan would contribute. There must be more using juice than your heating system.


----------



## Boil&Toil (Mar 29, 2014)

This is certainly one reason I'm dubious about Garns, even though I do find that the one at work burns clean most of the time and is generally pretty functional. The draft inducer is a monstrous motor  - possibly 1 hp (I don't recall exactly, I just thought it was a LARGE motor to be driving a fan) - and then there are a pair of large pumps (well, it is a commercial-sized system, so it's all going to be big) driving the heat exchanger...


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 29, 2014)

I noticed a huge jump in my bill when we installed a DVR. It was like adding another large refrigerator. Then there's ghost power. There are so many LEDs on different hardware in my house I don't have to turn on any lights to walk around in the middle of the night. Add the phone, camera and answering machine chargers. It's no wonder I burn so little wood. I have electric heat.


----------



## ewdudley (Mar 29, 2014)

Boil&Toil said:


> The draft inducer is a monstrous motor - possibly 1 hp (I don't recall exactly, I just thought it was a LARGE motor to be driving a fan)


I ran the numbers once, and if you compare a typical smaller boiler to a Garn, the watt-hours of electricity per btu heat produced is less for the Garn because the bigger motor moves more air more efficiently for a shorter amount of time, which is made possible by the higher burn rate and effective heat transfer design.


----------



## heaterman (Mar 29, 2014)

Amen on the DVR wattage draw.   Another power leech that is seldom accounted for is your modem. Check the heat coming off one of them and it will surprise you.
All those little loads add up in a hurry.


----------



## heaterman (Mar 29, 2014)

jeffesonm said:


> View attachment 130770




Nice! Very nice illustration of what a VS pump can do. 

I have to add that observation of all the 15-55 Grunts and Wilo Stratos ECO 's has shown they rarely get above 20-25 watts of power consumption.
The efficiency is just flat out amazing on those little guys. I don't think I have ever seen either of those pumps hit 40 watts in a typical system even running wide open.


----------



## mr.fixit (Mar 29, 2014)

Get a Kill-A-Watt meter. $20 bucks on Amazon.
http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html
Great tool.


----------



## Fred61 (Mar 29, 2014)

mr.fixit said:


> Get a Kill-A-Watt meter. $20 bucks on Amazon.
> http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html
> Great tool.


Got one! Keep plugging it in out of curiosity about a certain appliance and then forget it. Was plugged into my air purifier most of the winter and now it's been measuring the Eko combustion fan for the past three and a half weeks. Think I'll go check it. Actually the longer the test, the lower margin of error since it displays running time and KWH used over a longer period.


----------



## BoilerMan (Mar 29, 2014)

Fred61 said:


> Got one! Keep plugging it in out of curiosity about a certain appliance and then forget it. Was plugged into my air purifier most of the winter and now it's been measuring the Eko combustion fan for the past three and a half weeks. Think I'll go check it. Actually the longer the test, the lower margin of error since it displays running time and KWH used over a longer period.


I actually borrowed a Kill-A-Watt from a friend..........I'm wicked cheap!  I found out that it is total HYPE about older appliances, my aforementioned circa 1996 refrigerator that I bought for $150 at a yard sale cost $10/month to run, side by side with frequently used ice maker.

As for your well pump, just pay attention to how often it cycles by listening to the pressure switch.  Close off the valve going from the tank to the house and turn off the breaker overnight, in the morning turn on the breaker w/o opening the valve yet.  If the pump comes on, then there is a leak somewhere between the tank and the pump, most likely the pitless adapter or foot valve.

TS


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 29, 2014)

BoilerMan said:


> I actually borrowed a Kill-A-Watt from a friend..........I'm wicked cheap!  I found out that it is total HYPE about older appliances, my aforementioned circa 1996 refrigerator that I bought for $150 at a yard sale cost $10/month to run, side by side with frequently used ice maker.
> 
> As for your well pump, just pay attention to how often it cycles by listening to the pressure switch.  Close off the valve going from the tank to the house and turn off the breaker overnight, in the morning turn on the breaker w/o opening the valve yet.  If the pump comes on, then there is a leak somewhere between the tank and the pump, most likely the pitless adapter or foot valve.
> 
> TS


OK I'LL TRY THAT, THANKS!


----------



## STIHLY DAN (Mar 29, 2014)

damn electronics. I was cleaning out my desk this winter and found a 15 yr old power bill. I use twice the electricity now. Only difference in house, are newer but same amount appliances, and all of those 13 watt bulbs throughout  the house. Difference is the electronics, computer, modem, dish, TV's, phone, cell chargers.


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 29, 2014)

When I had my office in the basement a few years ago I noticed that the relay seemed to be turning on the well pump too often. Turns out the check valve on the pump down in the well had rotted and the thing would pump up the tank and the tank would pump the water right back into the well. And repeat and repeat and...

A mere $1,200 later it was back to normal.


----------



## BoilerMan (Mar 30, 2014)

Exactly what I'm talking about!  When I install submersible pumps, I put a secondary check valve on the pitless, just before the 90 degree turn out of the casing.  No other check valves should be installed inside the house.  This way there is always pressure on the pitless' Oring which will make it last the life of the pump (typ 20 years). 

TS


----------



## jpelizza (Mar 30, 2014)

i just looked down in utility room.  it looks like a i have a circulator just above propane boiler and its running (i have boiler propane on aquastat so it is not being used while i have wood boiler going, but circulator seems to be on),  also saw two more ciruclators in primary loop that seem to be on even though i have no zones calling for heat at moment (or at least i think).  so i guess its possible 3 cirulators at approx 80 watt 24/7/30 for month added up to 172kwatt for month, thats alot of power right there, and when i add two more circ by boiler adds another 115kwatt.  so its seems these circulators are for sure some of my high electric use.  i know the 2 by boiler run 24/7, not sure if these ones i see on primary loop those 3 run 24/7 or not, not smart enough to know excatly works those or not.


----------



## jpelizza (Apr 1, 2014)

jeffesonm said:


> View attachment 130770


ok may have found my culpret.  i looked at the 2 circ by boiler i thought at first they were 2 talco 007 but only one is 007 the other is a big 0011-BF4-J
wonder what power rating is on it., i'll bet it high and it runs 24/7 primary circ from boiler to basement primary loop.  i got it with system used when i bought it thrown in, electriction told me it was a little over kill but never thought about power use on it.


----------



## jpelizza (Apr 1, 2014)

ok the 007 is 80.5 watts, the 0001-bf4-j is 202 (115volts x 1.76 amps), so just for those 2 circs that run 24/7 its 282watts/hr or approx 204kwatt/month  so i guess i definetly have to swat the big one out for sure, then maybe a few of the smaller ones and that will give me a big reduction in electricity.  also i plan to add storage and if i do that and have independent circ to run storage when up to temp i can shut them off and only have an efficent circ run storage.


----------



## ihookem (Apr 4, 2014)

My B&G PL36 uses 235 watts. It's a big pump. Perhaps bigger than it needs to be. It has lasted 5 whole heating seasons though and doesn't turn off from Dec. to mid March.


----------



## rkusek (Apr 5, 2014)

With storage you should be able to eliminate the space heaters also?


----------



## DBoon (Apr 5, 2014)

My old oil boiler had a big Bell & Gossett circulator pump.  It only ran when the boiler was on, but I would guess it was between 1/4 and 1/2 horsepower based on its size.  

When I had the piping runs split to zone the system, the plumber replaced that pump with two Taco 007 pumps, also running only when the boiler was on.  My electricity consumption during the winter months dropped by ~100 kWh.


----------

