# Issue with pellet stove venting for Magnum Baby Countryside



## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hello

I need some ideas here. My friend has a Magnum Baby Countryside with the upgraded exhaust blower with the larger impeller and we got running really good. But the 4" diameter venting which is on a 45 in back of the stove and straight thru the wall. On the outside is the cleanout T and it goes up approx 3 one foot sections to a 90 degree elbow and a direct vent cap. The issue is that it gets plugged up so much every 1.5 months that the stove is un-useable!

The venting is on an outside corner of the north east or the house near the seacoast on a high hill. There are many spurious wind currents along the house! A drafting nightmare.
The venting easily gets caked up and really full at the very top before it turns down to the exit cap. See pics below.

Any ideas? Answer found! See last post. The installers (Dealer is now gone) installed the venting improperly according to the MANUAL. See last post! CASE CLOSED


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## gymrat0663 (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to stuff like this, but would there be a benefit in reducing the length of the 3'-4' pipe to help the blower exhaust more efficiently?  Certainly, just my $.02 and I will wait with you to hear what the more experienced here have to say.


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

gymrat0663 said:


> I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to stuff like this, but would there be a benefit in reducing the length of the 3'-4' pipe to help the blower exhaust more efficiently? Certainly, just my $.02 and I will wait with you to hear what the more experienced here have to say.


 
You need a minimum vertical rise of 3 feet to keep sparks from flying out and setting the house on fire. Not code but highly recommended. I am learning the history of these stoves to understand the basics. Years ago some of the first pellet stoves did not have an exhaust blower, they required a full chimney to create a proper draft. Now an inside chimney (Internal to the house like a center chimney with top near the peak of the roof) has better drafting than an outside chimney on the end of a house.


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## smoke show (Apr 4, 2012)

Extend above roof line???


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## jtakeman (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey Don,

Are they running the stove on low mostly? And about how much fuel are they burning in that amount of time?


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## Defiant (Apr 4, 2012)

I would blow that baby straight out, no rise. Looks like you have the minimum 18" above grade to do so.


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## Lorne41 (Apr 4, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> 
> I need some ideas here. My friend has a Magnum Baby Countryside with the upgraded exhaust blower with the larger impeller and we got running really good. But the 4" diameter venting which is on a 45 in back of the stove and straight thru the wall. On the outside is the cleanout T and it goes up approx 3 or 4 feet to a vent cap. The issue is that it gets plugged up so much every 1.5 months that the stove is unuseable!
> 
> ...


 
Hi Don,
   That termination cap isn't the best for that type of install, the horizontal square one is much better for windy situations. It might even run better with a 3 inch pipe rather than the 4 inch pipe. The Magnum combustion motor might not have enuf' power to push the ash out a 4 inch pipe. In reading thru some past forum posts, I've found a few that state the Magnum has air flow problems,  one of the best is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/magnum-baby-countryside-many-issues.83395/

The Duravent horizontal cap ( pic below) will help with the outside air currents, but you might have to shorten up the exhaust pipe to help reduce the ash buildup. Just my 2 cents.


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## Defiant (Apr 4, 2012)

Did not like that cap for my application, the directional cap kept the house cleaner.


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## DexterDay (Apr 4, 2012)

Why not just clean the vent every month (or ton) of fuel like they should?  Sounds like they may have the damper opened to much, which allows the fly ash to make it to far?? 

Im with Defiant. My buddies is Direct vent. As long as its above grade and you keep a 1/2" rise per ft. Should be good.


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

jtakeman said:


> Hey Don,
> 
> Are they running the stove on low mostly? And about how much fuel are they burning in that amount of time?



THey run the stove on medium all thru the night. I would say 2 - 3 tons per season


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

Lorne41 said:


> Hi Don,
> That termination cap isn't the best for that type of install, the horizontal square one is much better for windy situations. It might even run better with a 3 inch pipe rather than the 4 inch pipe. The Magnum combustion motor might not have enuf' power to push the ash out a 4 inch pipe. In reading thru some past forum posts, I've found a few that state the Magnum has air flow problems,  one of the best is here:
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/magnum-baby-countryside-many-issues.83395/
> 
> ...



That hood type Term cap is a good idea. I will suggest that.


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> Why not just clean the vent every month (or ton) of fuel like they should?  Sounds like they may have the damper opened to much, which allows the fly ash to make it to far??
> 
> Im with Defiant. My buddies is Direct vent. As long as its above grade and you keep a 1/2" rise per ft. Should be good.



I think they do not want to pay for my gas to come by every month. They do not have any tools!


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

smoke show said:


> Extend above roof line???



I do agree there should be more vertical rise!


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## Defiant (Apr 4, 2012)

Path of least resistance, worked for me and many others. Just my .02.


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## smoke show (Apr 4, 2012)

Defiant said:


> Path of least resistance, worked for me and many others. Just my .02.


More draft means less resistance, no?


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## DexterDay (Apr 4, 2012)

smoke show said:


> More draft means less resistance, no?




More EVL = more resistance?? No?


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## smoke show (Apr 4, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> More EVL = more resistance?? No?


rough crowd. i can pull the plug on mine and the flame stays pretty active.

usually breezy here.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 4, 2012)

Don,

First off I can't tell if you have an up bubble on that stack at the horizontal portion before the cap, it must be up bubble.

It also looks to be that the vertical section is leaning, it should not be.

It also looks like the horizontal section going out the wall is not going up bubble, it should be.

Every one of those will cause problems getting the crud through the venting.

What does that screen look like on the termination cap?


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## Don2222 (Apr 4, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Don,
> 
> First off I can't tell if you have an up bubble on that stack at the horizontal portion before the cap, it must be up bubble.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by up bubble? An upward slope?

The screen is just a few bars going across to make squares.


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## Defiant (Apr 4, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> What do you mean by up bubble?


I think Smokey spent too much time at his still today.  Cheesus Don he is talking about level in maine slang.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 4, 2012)

Ask any sub sailor what up bubble is all about.

ETA: Get a blasted level and figure it out.


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## smoke show (Apr 4, 2012)

Someone needs a hug.


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## Lorne41 (Apr 4, 2012)

Does the Magnum stove require a 4" vent pipe? The reason I'm asking this is that for such a short run don't installers
usually use a 3" vent pipe. Could it be that the 4" pipe is too wide ( large)  and the fly ash from the stove never gets enough velocity to exit the piping?  Since the Magnum has a rather weak air flow  to begin with it just gets worse with strong outside winds. You mentioned that the ash is getting stuck in places along the way, sounds like not enough air flow to keep it clear to me... I agree with the other forum members that you could shorten up the  pipe and see what happens.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 5, 2012)

Lorne41 said:


> Does the Magnum stove require a 4" vent pipe? The reason I'm asking this is that for such a short run don't installers
> usually use a 3" vent pipe. Could it be that the 4" pipe is too wide ( large) and the fly ash from the stove never gets enough velocity to exit the piping? Since the Magnum has a rather weak air flow to begin with it just gets worse with strong outside winds. You mentioned that the ash is getting stuck in places along the way, sounds like not enough air flow to keep it clear to me... I agree with the other forum members that you could shorten up the pipe and see what happens.


 

Those ninety degree bends frequently put the venting over what a 3" can be used for, especially if the combustion fan isn't particularly strong. 

You have to consult the manual and be careful about the direction you are venting into when using 3" stuff.

If the manual allows for a straight out vent and the stove is OAKed that may be the best option.

Also the type of ash produced will have a large part to play.


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## Don2222 (Apr 5, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Those ninety degree bends frequently put the venting over what a 3" can be used for, especially if the combustion fan isn't particularly strong.
> 
> You have to consult the manual and be careful about the direction you are venting into when using 3" stuff.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Smokey
Thanks alot Smokey you helped me find the REAL answer in the manual see RED circle in diagram below on Page 18
*Warning: Unless the venting is enclosed and insulated, this installation will cause poor venting,*
*excess ash buildup, premature failure of exhaust system, staining of the house siding and serious*
*creosote buildup. This installation should not be used in a cold climate area.*

Here is what the Magnum Baby Countryside manual states on page10 under venting. *The 2nd paragraph below seems to imply that the venting must be cleaned very often!* I recommended a double T for $180 but that is alot of money at this time for my friend. The chart on page 11 states 3" or 4" pipe diameter should be fine. In fact 4" can go alot higher so extending the 4" is acceptable and would create a much better draft! Also there is a properly installed OAK on this stove.
http://www.americanenergysystems.com/Stock/LibraryFiles/magnumbabycountryside-manual-2005.pdf

 Termination must exhaust above air inlet elevation. It is recommended that at least 3 ft. of vertical pipe be installed
when the appliance is vented directly through a wall or in a basement. This will create some natural draft to prevent
the possibility of smoke or odor during appliance shutdown and to keep exhaust from causing a nuisance or hazard from
exposing people or shrubs to high temperatures. In any case, the safest and preferred venting method is to extend the vent
through the roof. Do not connect this unit to a chimney flue serving another appliance.

It is recommended that a single or double clean-out “tee”, for cleaning the vent in both directions, be installed at every 90 Deg
junction to enable collection of fly ash and to permit periodic cleaning of the exhaust system. 90 Deg elbows accumulate flyash
and soot thereby reducing exhaust flow and performance of the stove.
Total length of horizontal vent must not exceed 10 feet / 3,000 mm. All joints in the vent system must be fastened by at
least 3 screws, and all joints must be sealed with RTV silicone sealer to be airtight.


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## Delta-T (Apr 5, 2012)

smoke show said:


> rough crowd. i can pull the plug on mine and the flame stays pretty active.
> 
> usually breezy here.


pellet stoves, when running do not draft, they are pressurized. when you unplug it, it goes from positive exhaust to whatever the environment allows. If there is enough temp differential it will draft. I really wish the word "draft" would disappear from the pellet vocabulary book.


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## smoke show (Apr 5, 2012)

Sure gang up one me right away.

26' vertical 4" thru the roof near peak, mine drafts when power fails.


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## Delta-T (Apr 5, 2012)

not trying to gang up...trying to de-mystify. Others will read what has been written and repeat...I'd just assume they repeat the right things. Much easier to learn things right the first few times than to have to unlearn and relearn later.


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## smoke show (Apr 5, 2012)

Delta-T said:


> If there is enough temp differential it will draft.


 
you said it yourself.


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## Don2222 (Apr 5, 2012)

Hello Guys

Thanks alot, So it looks like the fixes are as follows:

1. Re-Do the venting and have the vertical rise inside.
2. Insulate and box in the existing venting.
3. Add alot more height to the existing venting.
4. Go straight out with a cap on the end! (Not the best but the cheapest!)


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 9, 2012)

The outside air cools the venting and the exhaust gases this allows the ash (and other unwanted crap, think 'sote) to precipitate or condense out. Not what you want.

Also you didn't say anything  about the existence or lack of proper rise in the horizontal sections of the venting or lack of plumb on the vertical that is all critical in allowing the exhaust to escape as fast as possible so it doesn't cool off.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 9, 2012)

Delta-T draft is exactly correct.

Both temperature or a pressure differences (the temperature causes a pressure difference to develop) can cause a draft.


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## Don2222 (Apr 9, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Delta-T draft is exactly correct.
> 
> Both temperature or a pressure differences (the temperature causes a pressure difference to develop) can cause a draft.


 
Well Smokey
The manual does NOT recommend the outside vertical rise in then venting and in this case it really gets plugged up way to often!

I agree that temps around the venting play a role here and they do effect the natural draft.
So in this case where the exhaust blower and the pressure it creates is constant, then why would 3' of vertical venting INSIDE the house be so much better than 3' of vertical venting outside the house?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 9, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Well Smokey
> The manual does NOT recommend the outside vertical rise in then venting and in this case it really gets plugged up way to often!
> 
> I agree that temps around the venting play a role here and they do effect the natural draft.
> So in this case where the exhaust blower and the pressure it creates is constant, then why would 3' of vertical venting INSIDE the house be so much better than 3' of vertical venting outside the house?


 

Because it doesn't allow the exhaust gases time required to cool to the point crap condenses out.  This is not directly related to draft.


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## Don2222 (Apr 9, 2012)

So would an inside the house vertical rise push out more pellet dust to the outside air and not clog the venting as often beause the gasses do NOT cool until they are out of the venting?

Or does the pellet dust just more evenly coat the interior walls of the venting and not cause blockages?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 9, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> So would an inside the house vertical rise push out more pellet dust to the outside air and not clog the venting as often beause the gasses do NOT cool until they are out of the venting?
> 
> Or does the pellet dust just more evenly coat the interior walls of the venting and not cause blockages?


 
Don think a bit about where that ash and crud heads to when it precipitates out, it is usually heavy enough to start down. This causes it to pile up in the tee or the bottom elbow (if no tee). It will also pile up in the exposed horizontal runs.

I have an up and out vent 3" and close to the limit. The ash piles up in the short horizontal run outside and in the tee, very little is in the vertical portion of the vent.

That vent run you showed pictures of does not appear to have a vertical portion instead it is backwards leaning, this acts as additional resistance slowing down the exhaust's ability to exit the vent before it cools below the condensation point likewise the apparent lack of a rise in the horizontal portions. This is not proper venting practice and leads to ash and other things ending up in the venting to cause trouble. Like all things ash related it is a vicious escalating problem. I get taken to task about multiple cleaning suggestions when people are having bad burns on here. Until your venting and burn are correct and you become consistent in your cleaning you'll have the same problem over and over. When dealing with venting issues you have to look at it when your venting and stove is clean otherwise the stuff in the plumbing just messes everything up.

The more ash you allow to deposit the faster it will deposit and the worst the burn will be this is a lather rinse repeat situation.

Please note pictures posted on here can sometimes be misleading due to the angles they were taken at, that is why I usually ask for further information.

Also note I'm not saying that making the out and up an up and out won't help, I'm just pointing out things about the current setup that concern me (changing these may be the cheapest and least disruptive option your friend has).

I haven't looked at the manual so I don't know if the straight out option is a viable option ( I do have a problem with that given the current placement of the OAK inlet, I'd prefer there to be more vertical separation).


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## Don2222 (Apr 9, 2012)

Hi Smokey

Well the last time I cleaned it, the ash buildup was mostly in the Horizontal run going from the stove to the T on the outside of the house and in the horizontal part going to the exhaust head at the top end of the pipe. There was also ash in the cleanout cap. but the 2 horizontal parts blocked up the stove from operating all too frequently!

Thanks for going over this specifically, I want people to know this outside vertical venting is a really bad idea!


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## Don2222 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hello

I just want to state here what the Magnum Manual says is not RECOMMENDED, it does have alot of Merit!

See Magnum BabyCountrySide Manual page 18 below excerpt I circled in Red!
click to enlarge and read what is NOT recommended here!

It states:
> > "Note: This type of installation is not recommended in cold climates unless closed in and properly insulated." <


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