# Ashford 30.1 smoke smell



## ohiojoe13 (Dec 19, 2015)

I have an ashford 30.1 and Im getting a small smoke smell. I notice it the most right above the top left side of the door. The door gasket passes the dollar bill test. I don't see anything on the gasket past the indent from where It presses on the stove.  It happens at all burn settings. It doesn't seem to matter if I'm burning on hi or low. I don't smell anything near the pipe connector. I have about 16' feet of total pipe with 2 45s. Wood is in the 16-18 % range. I love this stove but this is driving me crazy.


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## GeHmTS (Dec 19, 2015)

Do you have a dog that can find the cause.  Burn a little meat inside and let your dog lead you to it.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 19, 2015)

GeHmTS said:


> Do you have a dog that can find the cause.  Burn a little meat inside and let your dog lead you to it.


No dog.


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## jetsam (Dec 19, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> No dog.



I'm not sure my stove would work right without the dog in front of it. Maybe we've found the problem here!

On a more serious note, is the smoke smell only by the stove, or is it maybe stronger upstairs somewhere?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 19, 2015)

I


jetsam said:


> I'm not sure my stove would work right without the dog in front of it. Maybe we've found the problem here!
> 
> On a more serious note, is the smoke smell only by the stove, or is it maybe stronger upstairs somewhere?


i only notice it if I'm standing right next to the stove.


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## GeHmTS (Dec 19, 2015)

Some ideas that may help: 

1.) Clean the stove
2.) Make sure you have a working CO and smoke detectors.  Test it to be sure.
3.) Make sure ventilation and/or draft is properly set up and there are no blockages
4.) It's also important to check for incomplete combustion.
5.) Get a doggie, they have a great sense of smell.


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2015)

We had a few reports on this problem last year. You might want to visit those Ashford threads to see if there are any clues. BKVP may be able to help too.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

begreen said:


> We had a few reports on this problem last year. You might want to visit those Ashford threads to see if there are any clues. BKVP may be able to help too.


I have read a few of them. I hope I dont need to add more chimney. I really hope it's not a draft issue. The stove seems to burn well and I have no problems burning 24 plus hours on low even when it was 50 60 degrees outside. I did have to tighten the door a few weeks ago and I cleaned the chimney last weekend. Idk if this could cause the problem  but when I reinstalled my teloscoping double wall pipe after cleaning  I used the same screw holes for the middle section of the teloscoping pipe and it seemed a little loose where it connected to the stove. I then removed the screws from the middle section and I was able to move the teloscoping pipe about an 1/8 of an inch down but then the screw holes didn't line up. I ended up putting the screws back in the original holes. I then lit a few pieces of paper in the stove to see if anything was gonna leak around the stove connector. And nothing the heat must have made it expand enough to tighten up because there was no play. Am I able to have another set of holes in my teloscoping pipe? I was thinking about removing the screws from the mid section and pushing down more and rescrewing just to eliminate that being the cause. Would that cause a problem with extra screw holes?  I really don't think that's the issue because I can't smell anything at the stove collection. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying.


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## rwhite (Dec 20, 2015)

This may not be your solution but I will say there is only one thing that I have found that cause smoke smell in the house;
Poor draft.
Now what is causing that poor draft can be a multitude of things. 
1. Dirty chimney cap is my usual suspect. 
2. Opening the door to fast with the air shut down.
3. Improper chimney diameter or length. 
4. Weather
5. Negative air pulling smoke down an adjacent flue.

Basically if your stove is drafting properly you shouldn't have smoke in the house (except for #5). With 16' of pipe and 2 45's I'd lean toward your chimney height assuming all is clean.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

rwhite said:


> This may not be your solution but I will say there is only one thing that I have found that cause smoke smell in the house;
> Poor draft.
> Now what is causing that poor draft can be a multitude of things.
> 1. Dirty chimney cap is my usual suspect.
> ...


I'm getting the smoke smells while the stove door is closed. When I open the door to lold I don't have any problems.


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2015)

Can you describe the whole flue system from stove to chimney cap including turns if there are any?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

begreen said:


> Can you describe the whole flue system from stove to chimney cap including turns if there are any?


From the stove collar it has double wall teloscoping pipe. Then two off setting 45s into the ceiling box. Then after that it's straight up. With a cap with no screen. 16' total.


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## begreen (Dec 20, 2015)

That's close. The minimum flue height on this stove used to be 12' but they raised this to 15' for the 30.1. As a test you might try adding a temporary 3-4' extension to the chimney using cheap 6" warm air duct. Remove the cap and push it into the chimney crimp end down. Do this during a calm weather period so that you can test with it for a few fires.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

begreen said:


> That's close. The minimum flue height on this stove used to be 12' but they raised this to 15' for the 30.1. As a test you might try adding a temporary 3-4' extension to the chimney using cheap 6" warm air duct. Remove the cap and push it into the chimney crimp end down. Do this during a calm weather period so that you can test with it for a few fires.


I don't have a way to reach the top of it.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

I attached a few pictures


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

Another picture


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## rwhite (Dec 20, 2015)

The inside looks ok to me. Might have to get on the roof anyway. Looks like the chimney could use some support brackets.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 20, 2015)

rwhite said:


> The inside looks ok to me. Might have to get on the roof anyway. Looks like the chimney could use some support brackets.


I can get on the roof but I can't reach the top of the pipe. It now has 2 support brackets. This picture was during the install.


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## Chettt (Dec 20, 2015)

You could try wrapping each inside pipe joint with high temperature tape that would cover both the sheet metal screws and the seams. These el nino winter temps. may be hurting your draft.


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## Calentarse (Dec 21, 2015)

I understand your frustration. You can read about everything I went through. BK is great though, and will work with you, so don't be afraid to reach out to them. 

What I've learned:
If there is not strong enough draft these stoves will weep smoke out. I just added 4' of pipe to my chimney, so I now have 17' of pipe with 2 45s like you. This fixed my problem because before, I only had 13' total from flue collar. That was definitely inadequate because I got smoke smell no matter the scenario (once wood was half burnt the smell would disappear though).

One big difference I see between you and I is that your pipe is on an outside wall of the house. Mine is inside the envelope of my house and attic coming out the center of my house. I bet that pipe is cooling and you're losing draft relative to mine because my attic keeps my pipe warm...

I would guess that you are gonna need to create more draft to fix this issue. In the meantime, you can try to compensate with drier wood, burning at higher temps, etc. 

Another note, I would not try to keep tightening the door. The appropriate tightness of the door handle, IMO, should take little to no effort to open on a properly drafting stove. I fooled myself once thinking that by tightening it and seeing an improvement in the smell that the problem was the gasket. That's only a band aid. I was smashing the gasket down further and further; this provided temporary relief from a bigger problem.

Does your dealer know of these problems?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Calentarse said:


> I understand your frustration. You can read about everything I went through. BK is great though, and will work with you, so don't be afraid to reach out to them.
> 
> What I've learned:
> If there is not strong enough draft these stoves will weep smoke out. I just added 4' of pipe to my chimney, so I now have 17' of pipe with 2 45s like you. This fixed my problem because before, I only had 13' total from flue collar. That was definitely inadequate because I got smoke smell no matter the scenario (once wood was half burnt the smell would disappear though).
> ...


When I first Google ashford smoke smell I found that you were having issues with yours and the added chimney fixed your smoke smell problems.

If I 100% knew for sure that an extra 4' would fix the problem due to draft I would do it. But I get 24 to 26 hours burning on he lowest setting keeping the act active. I feel like if I had a draft issue I wouldn't be able to get these burn times. But I could be completely wrong.

Did the whole house smell like smoke for you? I can only smell if I put my face right down to the left side of the door.

After reading that the extra 4 feet fixed your problems I want to add more chimney to mine but I don't wanna spend the money if I don't have to.

I haven't called my dealer yet. I'm not a big fan of my dealer and regret using them. They originally only wanted to install 12' of chimney. I had to tell them I wanted at least 15'. They said they were new to blazeking. That shold have been my first clue. They cut the hole In my ceiling in the wrong spot. Forgot parts 2 different times. They are really the last people i want to call.


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## Calentarse (Dec 21, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> When I first Google ashford smoke smell I found that you were having issues with yours and the added chimney fixed your smoke smell problems.
> 
> If I 100% knew for sure that an extra 4' would fix the problem due to draft I would do it. But I get 24 to 26 hours burning on he lowest setting keeping the act active. I feel like if I had a draft issue I wouldn't be able to get these burn times. But I could be completely wrong.
> 
> ...



You can find out if extra height will fix your problems. Get some cheap pipe and put it up there. Trial and error.
The whole house would smell for me mostly all the time. Sometimes, it would be less if it were really cold or windy outside, but the problem was always still there. It was always coming out of the stove. It smelled the worst up by the ceiling in most rooms though...
I understand your feelings on the dealer; I've had similar experiences regrettably. However, you are going to need to enlist their help if you don't have access to the top of your chimney and/or need them to order you parts. You can read on your own though and question their practices. 
I'd also reach out to Blaze King eventually, but first go through simple tests that you know BK is going to want before bothering them. Have the dealer come out and inspect the stove in full. Have them make sure there's nothing wrong with it. You need to eliminate the stove as the issue. Then, move on to the chimney. Have them inspect it, clean it and then add some temporary pipe. 
I too was afraid that the extra draft would reduce burn times. I spoke to BK about this. The way that they explained it, HIGHER DRAFT due to ADEQUATE CHIMNEY SETUPS mean lowers temps in the stove. The stove doesn't have to compensate for weak drafts. When the draft is weak, the stove ups the air intake a bit to create more heat and keep the fire going. Obviously, this lessens burn times. If your chimney is tall enough, your stove can operate at its ideal temps/it doesnt have to compensate; this equals longer burn times. Theoretically this makes sense, yet, I can't say for sure which I have experienced for myself. I'm burning crappy silver maple mixed with a little oak right now so I'm not getting the burn times I was last year when the winter was brutal and I was loading full white and red oak and hickory for 3 months. Plus, I have only had about 8-10 full loads in mine since I added the extra height. I'll reserve my anecdotal evidence and trust BKVP's explanation for now. If I become certain one way or another based on my observations, I'll post.
You sound hesitant to spend money on the chimney. I was this way as well. Fact of the matter: you're posting on the forum because you have a problem. If you're taking the time to reach out to us for a solution, you need to do something. it must bother you enough that you're willing to do something. Add a little height and repost. You won't regret it if it fixes your issue. If it doesn't, take it down and give BK a call.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Calentarse said:


> You can find out if extra height will fix your problems. Get some cheap pipe and put it up there. Trial and error.
> The whole house would smell for me mostly all the time. Sometimes, it would be less if it were really cold or windy outside, but the problem was always still there. It was always coming out of the stove. It smelled the worst up by the ceiling in most rooms though...
> I understand your feelings on the dealer; I've had similar experiences regrettably. However, you are going to need to enlist their help if you don't have access to the top of your chimney and/or need them to order you parts. You can read on your own though and question their practices.
> I'd also reach out to Blaze King eventually, but first go through simple tests that you know BK is going to want before bothering them. Have the dealer come out and inspect the stove in full. Have them make sure there's nothing wrong with it. You need to eliminate the stove as the issue. Then, move on to the chimney. Have them inspect it, clean it and then add some temporary pipe.
> ...


I feel like I could add the section of pipe myself. But I cant reach the top just from getting on the roof. Does the chimney twist lock together? If so I feel like I could take the top two sections down, add a section in the middle and put it all back up. Hopefully that makes sense. Also at what heights do I need to add braces? Thanks for taking the time to help me out.


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## Highbeam (Dec 21, 2015)

Every 5 feet above the roofline needs a brace. The chimney twist locks, a short like 15 degree twist is all it takes once you engage the "threads". Yes you can lift off the whole chimney from the bottom but it gets heavy and awkward and dropping it can dent it or destroy that expensive pipe. Plus you need to get up there for the braces anyway.

That tall chimney right at the bottom of the roof is challenging. Home depot rents a man lift on a boom looking thing for painting houses that might be just the ticket here.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Every 5 feet above the roofline needs a brace. The chimney twist locks, a short like 15 degree twist is all it takes once you engage the "threads". Yes you can lift off the whole chimney from the bottom but it gets heavy and awkward and dropping it can dent it or destroy that expensive pipe. Plus you need to get up there for the braces anyway.
> 
> That tall chimney right at the bottom of the roof is challenging. Home depot rents a man lift on a boom looking thing for painting houses that might be just the ticket here.


I just looked up some man lifts. That might be what I have to do. I'm going to call my dealer and ask how much they would charge to come out and do it. As little as I want to give them my money it might be my best option. 

If I do decide to do it myself do I need to use the same brand, or are brands interchangeable? I'm pretty sure the brand it duratech.


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## edyit (Dec 21, 2015)

you'll want to use the same brand


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## Highbeam (Dec 21, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I just looked up some man lifts. That might be what I have to do. I'm going to call my dealer and ask how much they would charge to come out and do it. As little as I want to give them my money it might be my best option.
> 
> If I do decide to do it myself do I need to use the same brand, or are brands interchangeable? I'm pretty sure the brand it duratech.



Yes, same brand for sure. Duratech is good stuff and can be bought online and shipped. The hardest part for me would be the roof brace. I hate roof leaks so getting that right is very important.

I'm sorry it has to look so tall above your roof. You chose about the worst possible place to put that stove at the trailing edge of your roof which makes the tall chimney above the roof necessary.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Yes, same brand for sure. Duratech is good stuff and can be bought online and shipped. The hardest part for me would be the roof brace. I hate roof leaks so getting that right is very important.
> 
> I'm sorry it has to look so tall above your roof. You chose about the worst possible place to put that stove at the trailing edge of your roof which makes the tall chimney above the roof necessary.


The roof braces make me a little nervous, another reason why I might use dealer. 

The stove placement wasn't my first choice. The dealer suggested it to go there to save on chimney costs. Looking back I wish I would have put it where I wanted it to be. It would have been easier to clean. And with the added chimney I might not have smoke smell.


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## begreen (Dec 21, 2015)

We see too many installations here compromised by short term concerns of cost. Unfortunately some of this is customer driven. When the dealer knows they are bidding on a job they try to keep the bottom line competitive. They leave out options like a block-off plate or higher grade liner or chimney pipe because it's more unusual for a customer to ask them for the best job possible. These options may add another $1000 to the installation cost but should end up with a better performing system in the end.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

begreen said:


> We see too many installations here compromised by short term concerns of cost. Unfortunately some of this is customer driven. When the dealer knows they are bidding on a job they try to keep the bottom line competitive. They leave out options like a block-off plate or higher grade liner or chimney pipe because it's more unusual for a customer to ask them for the best job possible. These options may add another $1000 to the installation cost but should end up with a better performing system in the end.


I will admit I liked the lower price at the time of install. My dealer also told me my stove would perform fine with 12' of chimney with the 2 45s. I wish I would have listened to the person here who suggested I find a different dealer.


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## begreen (Dec 21, 2015)

Maybe lean on same dealer for a break due to mis-information. They owe you for this. Bring a copy of  page 15 in the manual that clearly states 15' minimum.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

begreen said:


> Maybe lean on same dealer for a break due to mis-information. They owe you for this. Bring a copy of  page 15 in the manual that clearly states 15' minimum.


I'll give that a try. It can't hurt to ask.


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## Heftiger (Dec 21, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I'll give that a try. It can't hurt to ask.



I have continually been disappointed by not only my local heating shop, but plenty of other businesses. Customer service is out the window; they just want to get by with as little work as possible. Very sad. I hope you fight to get what's right.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

I came home from work today tried smelling the stove and nothing. I'm at about 21 hours into the burn and at the first notch in the active range. I also had the wife try and she sayes she don't smell anything. Could this be do to being about at the end of the burn cycle? Or from difference in outside temps. Right now it's about 47 degrees out. Yesterday it was low to mid 30s.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 21, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I came home from work today tried smelling the stove and nothing. Could this be do to being about at the end of the burn cycle? Or from difference in outside temps. Right now it's about 47 degrees out. Yesterday it was low to mid 30s.


When the load is coaling there's less smoke in the box so there's less smell from any leak. If anything, you should have smelled less yesterday when it was cooler out and the stove was drafting better, so I'm guessing there was more smoke in the box (earlier in the burn) when you smelled it yesterday.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Woody Stover said:


> When the load is coaling there's less smoke in the box so there's less smell from any leak. If anything, you should have smelled less yesterday when it was cooler out and the stove was drafting better, so I'm guessing there was more smoke in the box (earlier in the burn) when you smelled it yesterday.


Damn I was really hoping the stove gods came and made everything right while I was at work. Gonna load soon and will report back.


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## webby3650 (Dec 21, 2015)

You'd be surprised how much those 45's effect your draft. I've had a lot of stoves in here, and if I have to add 45's to meet clearance it makes a difference. Especially with my Ashford! I had 45's in place already so left em, due to draft issues I took em out. Problem solved! I also had a minimum height flue, if elbows are needed add chimney height to compensate. Add 4' to your flue..


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 21, 2015)

Well after loading the stove the smoke smell is back. 

Im gonna call my dealer tomorrow and see what they say and get a price on adding 4 foot of chimney. Any guessing on the price? 

What i still don't understand is how anything leaks out of the stove. 

The other thing I can't decide is, is it worth the money. I can't smell it in the house. I have to put my face right down to the stove just a few inches from the stove to even smell it. And the wife hasn't started complaining yet.  What bothers me is its a brand new stove, why is this happening. Sorry for the rant.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

What is the hottest temp you've taken the stove top up to?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> What is the hottest temp you've taken the stove top up to?


The hottest I have seen it is about 2 o'clock on the active gauge.


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## webby3650 (Dec 22, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> The hottest I have seen it is about 2 o'clock on the active gauge.


That only monitors the temperature of the cat. How hot has your stovetop been?


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## webby3650 (Dec 22, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Well after loading the stove the smoke smell is back.
> 
> Im gonna call my dealer tomorrow and see what they say and get a price on adding 4 foot of chimney. Any guessing on the price?
> 
> ...


It sounds very minimal to me then. I've noticed the smell on occasion, but I'm burning a wood fire, so I'm ok with it. It's never bothered me.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

webby3650 said:


> That only monitors the temperature of the cat. How hot has your stovetop been?


I'm not sure I have never checked it. I thought I read on here that a thermometer on the top of these stoves were pointless due to the jacket around the stove.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

webby3650 said:


> It sounds very minimal to me then. I've noticed the smell on occasion, but I'm burning a wood fire, so I'm ok with it. It's never bothered me.


If it was just me in the house I don't think it would bother me as much. But with a 7 week old and a 4 year old in the house I would like there to be no smoke smell. 

It is minimal. That's why I'm hesitant to spend the money to add to the chimney when I'm not 100% sure that will fix it.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

I called my dealer. They said wood stove's smell like burning wood inside and you will get some smoke smell. 

$270 for 4' and $250 in labor.


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## Heftiger (Dec 22, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I called my dealer. They said wood stove's smell like burning wood inside and you will get some smoke smell.
> 
> $270 for 4' and $250 in labor.



That answer is a cop out! The only time I get wood smell in my new Ashford is during reload when there is still fuel in the box and I visibly see smoke coming out of the box.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

Heftiger said:


> That answer is a cop out! The only time I get wood smell in my new Ashford is during reload when there is still fuel in the box and I visibly see smoke coming out of the box.


I  kinda laughed when he said that. They also said they can't  add more than one brace.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I'm not sure I have never checked it. I thought I read on here that a thermometer on the top of these stoves were pointless due to the jacket around the stove.


Lift the top off and measure the temp there. The reason I ask is that one possible source of the smoke smell could be that the paint hasn't fully baked. The stove body needs to get up to about 500F to do this.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I called my dealer. They said wood stove's smell like burning wood inside and you will get some smoke smell.
> 
> $270 for 4' and $250 in labor.





Heftiger said:


> That answer is a cop out! The only time I get wood smell in my new Ashford is during reload when there is still fuel in the box and I visibly see smoke coming out of the box.


Agreed that is total horse poop. What was their excuse for not installing the chimney as specified in the manual?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> Agreed that is total horse poop. What was their excuse for not installing the chimney as specified in the manual?


The total is 16'. When they came out to give me a quote they said it only needed to be 12'. At that time I told them I wanted a minimum of 15'. I only knew it needed to be 15' from reading on here.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> Lift the top off and measure the temp there. The reason I ask is that one possible source of the smoke smell could be that the paint hasn't fully baked. The stove body needs to get up to about 500F to do this.


OK I'll try that tonight. I would think that I have hit 500 degrees as I burn on high after every reload for 20 to 30 min.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

It's possible you have. Just going down a list of possible alternative causes. It takes a while to get the full mass of the stove hot. I would shoot for a stove top temp of about 600-650F for at least an hour. Open a window if necessary.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> Lift the top off and measure the temp there. The reason I ask is that one possible source of the smoke smell could be that the paint hasn't fully baked. The stove body needs to get up to about 500F to do this.


OK I'll try that tonight. I would think that I have hit 500 degrees as I burn on high after every reload for 20 to 30 min.


begreen said:


> It's possible you have. Just going down a list of possible alternative causes. It takes a while to get the full mass of the stove hot. I would shoot for a stove top temp of about 600-650F for at least an hour. Open a window if necessary.


Thanks for all the help. I'll try that tonight.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

If I had to pin point where I smell the smoke it would be the left vent above the door. I don't smell anything on the right side.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

This has to be very frustrating. If no luck contact BKVP via a conversation for help.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

begreen said:


> This has to be very frustrating. If no luck contact BKVP via a conversation for help.


I ended up sending him a message asking for some input. He suggested checking to make sure the glass isn't moving. That's something I haven't tried yet.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

I just measured my chimney and I came up with about a little over 15' but I didn't measure in the attic.


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## begreen (Dec 22, 2015)

Should be adequate


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

No movement in the glass


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## blueguy (Dec 22, 2015)

Try redoing the gasket cement under the door gasket on the hinge side from just above where the air feeds down onto the glass down to below the bottom hinge - use one continuous bead of silicone / cement. Does your door gasket have a section of flat wrap anywhere between the hinges?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 22, 2015)

blueguy said:


> Try redoing the gasket cement under the door gasket on the hinge side from just above where the air feeds down onto the glass down to below the bottom hinge - use one continuous bead of silicone / cement. Does your door gasket have a section of flat wrap anywhere between the hinges?


Is this something I should have my dealer do? 

I'm not sure I know what flat wrap is.


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## blueguy (Dec 23, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Is this something I should have my dealer do?
> 
> I'm not sure I know what flat wrap is.



Does it look like this?





You should be able to do the adhesive yourself. There has been evidence posted that the smoke smell is being pushed under the gasket by the air wash on the hinge side - putting a solid bead under the gasket in this area should help keep the smell from being pushed under.

There is also a thought that the flat gasket wrap over the joint in the door gasket is allowing some of the smoke past due to how stiff it is and the air wash pushing down on that location.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 23, 2015)

blueguy said:


> Does it look like this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 169985
> ...


I'll have to take a look when I get home. 

When i do the silicone, what kind do I use?


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## firefighterjake (Dec 23, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I called my dealer. They said wood stove's smell like burning wood inside and you will get some smoke smell.
> 
> $270 for 4' and $250 in labor.



BS . . . most of us here have woodstoves and you do not smell smoke inside the home unless there is a drafting problem . . . which is quite rare. If I had to choose whether to save money and have my house smell like smoke and creosote or pay a higher price with burning oil and not have the house smell . . . I would burn oil . . . but fortunately I don't have to make that choice.

Your dealer is either an idiot or blowing the proverbial smoke up your butt.


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## blueguy (Dec 23, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> When i do the silicone, what kind do I use?



You can buy it at a stove shop, or alternatively, hit up the section in your local auto parts store that has all he RTV and gasket makers and find one that is rated for the highest temps. Most stove gasket silicone is only rated up to 500 or 600 degrees, so any of the high temp RTV will do.


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## Highbeam (Dec 23, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I can't smell it in the house. I have to put my face right down to the stove just a few inches from the stove to even smell it. And the wife hasn't started complaining yet.



That is my experience as well. Almost burn my nose to check for the smell and I can find it but otherwise nobody says anything. It's like checking the dog's butthole for dog farts. If you get right up on that dog's butthole it probably has a smell even if the dog hasn't farted.


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## Highbeam (Dec 23, 2015)

blueguy said:


> Does it look like this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 169985
> ...



I will need to be replacing my door gasket someday and this flat gasket method seems crazy. Is that the newly recommended method? Isn't the silicone always a continuous bead?

I had to remove/lift  a section of OEM door gasket material to access and tighten one of the door glass bracket nuts which lies under the gasket. It's a big nut and I agree that a superior design would locate those nuts outside of the gasket.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 23, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> I will need to be replacing my door gasket someday and this flat gasket method seems crazy. Is that the newly recommended method? Isn't the silicone always a continuous bead?
> 
> I had to remove/lift  a section of OEM door gasket material to access and tighten one of the door glass bracket nuts which lies under the gasket. It's a big nut and I agree that a superior design would locate those nuts outside of the gasket.


Maybe BK will design a new door....


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## blueguy (Dec 23, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> I will need to be replacing my door gasket someday and this flat gasket method seems crazy. Is that the newly recommended method? Isn't the silicone always a continuous bead?



I changed out that door gasket with the wrap due to the same smoke smell between the hinges that everyone else is mentioning. Presto - the smoke smell is gone. I attribute it to two things - that weirdo wrap and the non-continuous bead of silicone under the gasket. As a side note, after I installed the new OEM gasket, I tried to find 7/8" door gasket here locally, and the closest I could find was 1" Osburn gasket the dealer said measured out to 7/8", and lo and behold, the bag included a section of that flat wrap. I half wonder if some of the doors came with some outsourced gasket with the wrapped joints between the hinges vice the OEM stuff that BK specifies the joints in the lower corner?

When I redid the gasket, I went over all of the glass retainer nuts and checked their tightness, and none were loose. After reinstalling the gasket, I can't say that the nuts under it are causing any interference issues....at least on my stove.

Edit: the Osburn gasket doesn't fit. It's too big. I'll also mention that another reason why I think maybe the gasket was outsourced was that the original gasket that came with my door was quite difficult to close for the first little while and seemed quite large for 7/8". The new OEM stuff seemed a bit smaller and I even had to tighten the door latch a bit to pass the dollar bill test.


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## begreen (Dec 23, 2015)

What did you use to adhere the new gasket to the door?


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## blueguy (Dec 23, 2015)

begreen said:


> What did you use to adhere the new gasket to the door?



Black RTV.


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## Highbeam (Dec 23, 2015)

blueguy said:


> Black RTV.



That's what I plan to use too. Ultra black RTV from the auto parts store. It's "high temp" and looks good if it were to spooge out from under the gasket. My Englander NC30 used what appears to be the ultra black RTV as well.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 23, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> That's what I plan to use too. Ultra black RTV from the auto parts store. It's "high temp" and looks good if it were to spooge out from under the gasket. My Englander NC30 used what appears to be the ultra black RTV as well.


Are BK dealers the only place to get the gasket from?

Also could I just reuse my gasket and put a new bead of silicone under the gasket?


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## Highbeam (Dec 23, 2015)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Are BK dealers the only place to get the gasket from?
> 
> Also could I just reuse my gasket and put a new bead of silicone under the gasket?



BK uses a special gasket. I would only buy it from BK or through a BK dealer if you're replacing.

You could always reuse a gasket if it has not been compromised but due to the low cost of a new gasket I would recommend a new one.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 23, 2015)

Ok I'll get a new one. 

I just looked at my gasket and it doesn't have that flat wrap.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 23, 2015)

I've seen the copper RTV for auto exhaust systems rated at 800 intermittent.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 23, 2015)

Inspected my gasket some more. I can see where there is some silicone in the corners of the gasket channel corners.


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## Dieselhead (Dec 23, 2015)

What's the flat wrap? Haven't heard this term.


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## rsw49 (Dec 23, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> That is my experience as well. Almost burn my nose to check for the smell and I can find it but otherwise nobody says anything. It's like checking the dog's butthole for dog farts. If you get right up on that dog's butthole it probably has a smell even if the dog hasn't farted.



I can't stop laughin!


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 24, 2015)

Dieselhead said:


> What's the flat wrap? Haven't heard this term.


There is a picture posted in here. I'm not 100% sure but I think it's a wrap on the gasket where the ends meet.


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## Dieselhead (Dec 25, 2015)

How I missed that I don't know, now I got it. My BK doesn't have that.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 26, 2015)

The other thread trying to nail down possible cures for Ashford smoke coming from the hinge area is closed, so I will continue here. Currently, I am working with my stove vendor, Dave at A-1 Stoves in Grass Valley, Ca. Dave will be getting with Chris at BK and then he will get back to me as to possible resolves on Monday. In reading various threads, replacing the bolts on the window frame clamp with button head bolts and increasing the flue height have been fixes for some units. My gasket looks good. New stove with 5 days on it. 18' of straight chimny. The draw =-.05" @ 300F.  Any other possible fixes I missed?


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 26, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> The other thread trying to nail down possible cures for Ashford smoke coming from the hinge area is closed, so I will continue here. Currently, I am working with my stove vendor, Dave at A-1 Stoves in Grass Valley, Ca. Dave will be getting with Chris at BK and then he will get back to me as to possible resolves on Monday. In reading various threads, replacing the bolts on the window frame clamp with button head bolts and increasing the flue height have been fixes for some units. My gasket looks good. New stove with 5 days on it. 18' of straight chimny. The draw =-.05" @ 300F.  Any other possible fixes I missed?


Thanks for the update. 

Has anyone else tried putting the silicone around the outside of the gasket channel with any luck?


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 26, 2015)

Yes, as I suspected, it burned to ash and crumbled off. It was rated to 800F.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 26, 2015)

I will make posts as information cones in when I get with Dave tomorrow.


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## drz1050 (Dec 26, 2015)

This stuff is rated to 2000 deg:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000V..._UL100_SR100,100_&refRID=1092CD1XKTC8G9RXKWNX


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## Woody Stover (Dec 26, 2015)

drz1050 said:


> This stuff is rated to 2000 deg:


I saw some silicone at the stove shop
 that was 1100, I think. I've heard Mill-pac mentioned here also...


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## drz1050 (Dec 26, 2015)

This stuff is rated to 1100 peak, 900 continuous: 
http://www.amazon.com/MEECOS-RED-DEVIL-615-Sealant/dp/B002CTWHOY


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## begreen (Dec 26, 2015)

Just be careful. Some RTV sets up like stone under high heat. It can be very hard to remove once baked. This doesn't seem to be the case with all RTVs, but you might want to do a test before committing to a new product or use what the stove mfg. recommends.


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## webby3650 (Dec 26, 2015)

Just plain old black silicone is what's being used on door gaskets. It'll hold up very well. But if it's not protected from direct flames then It's toast! It must be behind the gasket, not out in the open.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> I will make posts as information cones in when I get with Dave tomorrow.


Just checking in to see if you have heard anything yet.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 29, 2015)

Not yet, but I will post as soon as I get any information. So far fixes have been: 1. Increasing the flue height. This does not always work and is costly. Mine is 18' and the draw pressure is within spec.   2. Replacing the window fasteners with ones that don't protrude as much and then regasketing. My stove, being newer, has the button head bolts.  3. Sealing under the gasket with silicone. I don't know if this is a permanent solution because of the heat involved. It does give credence to the "door air wash blowing smoke under the gasket"  theory. Did I miss any fixes?


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## Woody Stover (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> Yes, as I suspected, it burned to ash and crumbled off. It was rated to 800F.





webby3650 said:


> Just plain old black silicone is what's being used on door gaskets. It'll hold up very well.


Yeah, it's similar to the Buck, judging from blueguy's pic on page 3. Obviously the gasket has to hit around the outside of the hole in front of the stove, so the gasket and door frame are protected from direct flame/radiation by the front of the stove. I never saw silicone "burned to ash and crumbled off." Maybe you had bad cement or silicone, if yours crumbled out?


kf6ha[ said:


> 3. Sealing under the gasket with silicone. I don't know if this is a permanent solution because of the heat involved. It does give credence to the "door air wash blowing smoke under the gasket"  theory.


"Sealing under the gasket with silicone." ?? Isn't there a continuous bead of adhesive all the way around, under the gasket? That's what I normally see, with silicone _or_ cement. As I said, the silicone should hold up.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 29, 2015)

I just had a conversation with Chris (BKVP) about the smoke smell issue. I conducted some tests and determined that it is possible to have smoke move sideways through the gasket. This strongly supports the "air wash blowing smoke through the gasket" theory. Still only theory at this time, but time will tell. Chris is going to provide me with a more dense gasket in an attempt to stop the lateral movement of smoke. A word of caution - do not remove the door to work on it as it is quite difficult to reattach in good alignment. Hold off on using silicone compounds, the long term effect on the cat is unknown. 

Hmmm-I just had a real cool conversation with the VP! These people really do care about us end users.


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## Heftiger (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> I just had a conversation with Chris (BKVP) about the smoke smell issue. I conducted some tests and determined that it is possible to have smoke move sideways through the gasket. This strongly supports the "air wash blowing smoke through the gasket" theory. Still only theory at this time, but time will tell. Chris is going to provide me with a more dense gasket in an attempt to stop the lateral movement of smoke. A word of caution - do not remove the door to work on it as it is quite difficult to reattach in good alignment. Hold off on using silicone compounds, the long term effect on the cat is unknown.
> 
> Hmmm-I just had a real cool conversation with the VP! These people really do care about us end users.



Good to hear. I'm sad to say I believe I'm experiencing the same issue, same smoke smell just above the top door hinge. Thanks for the updates, keep us posted.


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## ohiojoe13 (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> I just had a conversation with Chris (BKVP) about the smoke smell issue. I conducted some tests and determined that it is possible to have smoke move sideways through the gasket. This strongly supports the "air wash blowing smoke through the gasket" theory. Still only theory at this time, but time will tell. Chris is going to provide me with a more dense gasket in an attempt to stop the lateral movement of smoke. A word of caution - do not remove the door to work on it as it is quite difficult to reattach in good alignment. Hold off on using silicone compounds, the long term effect on the cat is unknown.
> 
> Hmmm-I just had a real cool conversation with the VP! These people really do care about us end users.


Great to hear. Hopefully this will solve the issue. I might have to do the same thing. Are you doing it yourself or having your dealer do the work?


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## Woody Stover (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> I conducted some tests and determined that it is possible to have smoke move sideways through the gasket. This strongly supports the "air wash blowing smoke through the gasket" theory. Still only theory at this time, but time will tell.


What tests did you do?


> do not remove the door to work on it as it is quite difficult to reattach in good alignment. Hold off on using silicone compounds, the long term effect on the cat is unknown.


How does the door mount? The doors I've seen (limited number) have all had hinges...nothing to mis-align.
If silicone hurt cats, why are BK and other makers using it on their cat stoves? I would think once it dries, any additional off-gassing would be infinitesimal. But what do I know...


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 29, 2015)

I will be replacing the gasket myself. Not that hard to do.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 29, 2015)

It seems like this stove needs a lot of draft to contain the smoke. If you have a marginal chimney, or live in CA where average daily temps never get below 50, you may have to choose in the end weather to add stack, live with the smell (which I do with the Dutchwest since I haven't bothered to track it down yet,) or get a stove that breathes easier.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 29, 2015)

Out of the many thousands of these stoves that are sold only a very few have this "smoke smell" problem. Magnehelic readings indicate the chimney is not the culprit.  Just a matter of time and we will have this issue resolved. It will be something simple but elusive. I am working directly with the  BKVP on this. How cool is that?!  I worked in HVAC for many years and feel very confident about a forthcoming fix.


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## webby3650 (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> Out of the many thousands of these stoves that are sold only a very few have this "smoke smell" problem. Magnehelic readings indicate the chimney is not the culprit.  Just a matter of time and we will have this issue resolved. It will be something simple but elusive. I am working directly with the  BKVP on this. How cool is that?!  I worked in HVAC for many years and feel very confident about a forthcoming fix.


You are in good hands that's for sure! We work with about a dozen different stove manufacturers, none are even slightly involved with customer satisfaction. Not to mention troubleshooting or warranty issues! Hands down, they are the taking the lead in these fields.


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> Out of the many thousands of these stoves that are sold only a very few have this "smoke smell" problem.



Well now that is an assumption. Perhaps many have this problem but the owners:

1) Don't care.
2) Don't know
3) Don't call BK
4) Don't post on forums.

The huge majority of owners simply buy the stove and use it every once in awhile.


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## webby3650 (Dec 29, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Well now that is an assumption. Perhaps many have this problem but the owners:
> 
> 1) Don't care.
> 2) Don't know
> ...


I'd say it's some of all the above.
I'm familiar with the smell, but it only happens when I'm running really really low, or when I go from high to low quickly. If you have to smell the door of the stove to detect it then I consider it a non event...


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2015)

webby3650 said:


> I'm familiar with the smell, but it only happens when I'm running really really low, or when I go from high to low quickly. If you have to smell the door of the stove to detect it then I consider it a non event...



In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.


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## webby3650 (Dec 29, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.


Same here


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## Dieselhead (Dec 29, 2015)

What size gasket does the Ashford use, is it the 7/8" high density?


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## HarvestMan (Dec 29, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> In part because of this thread I've taken to sniffing my door nightly. Sometimes a little smell on the latch side, more often on the hinge side, but never in the room unless I open the door with fuel still burning.


A word of caution to anyone doing this.  In time, the line between reality and your imagination may be difficult to determine.  This is particularly true if the smoke smell is very faint.  If you find yourself having to smell the "leak area" several times in a day ... you may be entering the twilight zone .


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 30, 2015)

Blueguy:

How is your fix holding out? Any smoke smell at all? You might have hit upon the answer. Could you explain your procedure and the exact materials used please so that others can replicate your success?


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## blueguy (Dec 30, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> Blueguy:
> 
> How is your fix holding out? Any smoke smell at all? You might have hit upon the answer. Could you explain your procedure and the exact materials used please so that others can replicate your success?



It's holding out pretty well. Since redoing my door gasket and raising the first turn point of the connector pipe by 9" (to reduce smoke spillage), there has been no smoke smell to speak of. All I did was remove the original door gasket with the weirdo flat wrap at the joint and install a new OEM gasket with the joint in the lower corner per the manual. I installed the gasket using a continuous bead of Ultra Black paying extra attention to the area between the hinges to ensure the gasket wasn't bunched up or stretched out. IIRC, the original gasket was held in place by intermittent blobs of what looked like furnace cement - not a continuous bead.

I should also mention that when I had the door off to redo the gasket, I added an extra strip of glass gasket between the glass and the retainer on the hinge side (between the glass gasket and the retainer) to make sure the smell wasn't coming from the glass. I also checked the tightness of the nuts on all of the retainer studs before installing the new door gasket. Once the door was back on, I let the RTV dry completely before firing the stove back up. I also had to adjust the latch as the door didn't seal quite as well with the new gasket. The door sealing was also not affected by the height of the studs under the gasket.

I'm happy to report that since the new gasket, I haven't had any smoke smell, and up until  the temps dropped two nights ago, we have been burning low and slow 24/7 since mid-November 

Lastly, if you watch the smoke swirling around in the firebox, you will see the air wash pushing down on it on the hinge side. On mine, the smoke smell seemed to start at about the same location on the door as where the air wash runs into the smoke. I've also noticed that (at least in my Sirocco) once the firebox is heated up, the smoke seems to swirl around the firebox in a clockwise manner, which may or may not have any impact on smoke seeping through the gasket.

Regardless, I am 100% confident that BK will come through with a valid fix that will sort this out once and for all.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 30, 2015)

Thank you for the report. It is very helpful. I have a new OEM gasket on the way from BK. So I guess the real "fix" is the continuous bead of RTV. Did you let the RTV set up before you latched the door? How long did you let it cure before firing the stove?


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## blueguy (Dec 30, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> Did you let the RTV set up before you latched the door? How long did you let it cure before firing the stove?





blueguy said:


> Once the door was back on, I let the RTV dry completely before firing the stove back up.





Edit: I did not latch the door until the RTV was cured. IIRC, I let it cure for a 24hr period.


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## Calentarse (Dec 30, 2015)

I should mention that even though 4' was added and my problems went away, I also had a new gasket put in. I can't ascertain as to whether the gasket, the elevated flue height and/or both fixed my issue. All I know is that it's over and I'm so happy! I'm following what others have done and wish you guys the best of luck.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 31, 2015)

I am glad your smoke problem is now resolved. I am still trying to nail down what fixes this. It may come down to a combination of things being in place to achieve the desired results.  Was a continuous bead of adhesive applied or were dabs placed here and there? What was used (RTV?) and, if possible, what brand? What brand gasket was used? What is your flue stack height now?  By the way, I used to have a 2040 too. I love my Ashford 30.1. It has the best turn-down of any stove on the market. I can actually see and feel the thermostatic control work.


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## kf6ha[ (Dec 31, 2015)

When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket,  ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.


----------



## rdust (Dec 31, 2015)

kf6ha[ said:


> When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket,  ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.



The door gasket uses silicone from the factory.  This is what Chris told me they used when I replaced my gasket.  "We use 3M Dow Corning #732."

I used RTV red from the parts store which he said was fine.


----------



## Woody Stover (Dec 31, 2015)

I don't see silicone being a problem for the cat. Once it's dry I don't think it's emitting anything. Reinstalled, you'll be running with the bypass open for a while,  not pulling much through the cat and the RTV should cure, if it hasn't already done so by the time you put the door back on.


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## blueguy (Jan 1, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket,  ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.



This was one possible fix suggested last season based on some similar issues Woodstock was having. Part of their fix was some flat gasket...


----------



## ohiojoe13 (Jan 1, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> When the Dave from A-1 comes out to replace the gasket, I will ask him if any RTV compound is "approved" for use in a cat stove. A wide array of compounds are used in the making of the various RTVs on the market. Some are specially formulated to not contaminate oxygen sensors. It might be the same for cats too. As a stop gap measure to reduce the smoke smell, I obtained and placed a piece of self-stick flat gasket,  ~1/8" thick, on the hinge side of the door seal. It helped a lot. The smell is much reduced. It looks like adequate flue draw and an appropriately attached gasket is going to be the fix.


I really hope the new gasket fixes the issue.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 1, 2016)

I am guessing a new BK gasket (same as the one in place now) with a continuous thick bead of RTV will stop the smoke from being blown through the gasket like you can blow air through a wad of steel wool. It worked for blueguy.


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## Calentarse (Jan 2, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> I am guessing a new BK gasket (same as the one in place now) with a continuous thick bead of RTV will stop the smoke from being blown through the gasket like you can blow air through a wad of steel wool. It worked for blueguy.


...and I'm thinking that at the very least played a role in working for me. The increased draft I'm sure helped but I'm left wondering if I even needed it had my gasket been right in the first place. No doubt it was when it came from the factory, but since ah had to remove the original to swap out the original bolts for the button one's, I'm sure I didn't bead it back up right. 

I wish I knew info about what my chimney guy used when he redid my gasket. He didn't like either the gasket or the glue for BK for some reason, so when he replaced it he used all his own materials. He did muse that the cement sent to me by blaze king was silicone he thought, and I don't know why he didn't like it...I'm sure it was my fault in how I installed the gasket. That glue was running everywhere and I had no idea what I was doing. Better left to the professionals! Good luck!


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 2, 2016)

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.

As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.


----------



## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.
> 
> As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.



So with the thick bead of ultra black, are we talking a continuous pencil sized bead? Half a pencil? You lay the gasket in place on this bead while the door lays face down on a table, do you push it into the rtv? Does the rtv spooge out? Then you just leave it for 24 hours? Anything special at the butt joint? Do you cut to length with a dry fit and then lay down the rtv? Or do you cut as you go? 

Seems very important to get this right. I'm due for a new gasket soon.


----------



## kf6ha[ (Jan 2, 2016)

On Wednesday Dave from A-1 will be installing the new BK gasket. From my readings of past posts, the factory uses dabs here and there to hold the gasket in place. My thinking is to fill the channel with a generous and continuous bead of RTV and let it squish out to seal the sides of the gasket thereby preventing the "blow through" caused by the door air wash. I will let you know what happens. Since the gasket change is the only thing we will be doing, we will know for sure if this is the fix.  Small things can make all the difference. See post #109 in this thread.


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## blueguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> So with the thick bead of ultra black, are we talking a continuous pencil sized bead?



I laid about a 3/8" bead all the way around.



> You lay the gasket in place on this bead while the door lays face down on a table, do you push it into the rtv?



Yup and yup.



> Does the rtv spooge out?



Mine sponged out very slightly in only a couple spots. I wiped the larger spooges away.



> Then you just leave it for 24 hours?



Yup.



> Anything special at the butt joint? Do you cut to length with a dry fit and then lay down the rtv?



I didn't do anything special with the butt joint. I dry fit the gasket in the channel and cut it to length, leaving a little extra on the end "just in case". Once I had the gasket installed in the RTV, I cut the last unneeded bit off and pushed it into place. I also paid particular attention to making sure the gasket wasn't stretched at all, was centred in the channel and was a uniform thickness when installing it.

To ensure I had no leaks at the joint, I butted one end of the gasket all the way to the outside edge of the perpendicular channel and then pushed the butt of the other end into the inside edge of the opposite gasket end. If that sounds confusing, picture the ends of the gasket looking like this: |_

Even though the smoke smell never bothered me and I don't have the issue anymore, I really hope the fix is really as simple as a really good gasket installation


----------



## Calentarse (Jan 3, 2016)

Mi


kf6ha[ said:


> Everyone has their own way of doing things. Some people think silicone (RTV) adhesives won't work so they prefer the type that is like cement but the reality is RTV does work, if the right stuff is used. As for the gasket preference, I guess your chimney guy figured he would use the material that served him well in the past-his own stuff. How high is your chimney? Mine is 18' with no bends.
> 
> As a test you could remove the 4' of flue and see if things change. My problem is I can't go any higher as I am already very near the top of the ladder when placing the last piece of flue.


Mine is 17' with 2 45 degree bends. I can understand wanting to get that gasket fixed! 18' is quite high and I can't see needing to go higher. Let's hope the gasket fixes you up! Keep us posted.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 3, 2016)

I will post, then report my findings to BKVP.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 4, 2016)

blueguy said:


> I laid about a 3/8" bead all the way around...
> Even though the smoke smell never bothered me and I don't have the issue anymore, I really hope the fix is really as simple as a really good gasket installation


When you replaced the gasket did you remove the door? If so, how hard was it to remove?


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## blueguy (Jan 4, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> When you replaced the gasket did you remove the door? If so, how hard was it to remove?



I did in fact remove the door. It just lifts up off the hinge pins. It took me longer to type this than it did to pull the door. That being said, I have a Sirocco and I have never seen an Ashford in person, so i can't comment on whether the hinges are the same.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

Update. Just had the gasket replaced. The original just had dabs of RTV here and there. The RTV was applied in a fat ~3/8" continuous bead. The whole channel had RTV in it with some squishing up both sides and out. I will fire the stove 24 Hrs from now and give another update. He used red hi temp RTV.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> Update. Just had the gasket replaced. The original just had dabs of RTV here and there. The RTV was applied in a fat ~3/8" continuous bead. The whole channel had RTV in it with some squishing up both sides and out. I will fire the stove 24 Hrs from now and give another update. He used red hi temp RTV.


Did the dealer remove the door to replace the gasket? I can't wait to hear about the results tomorrow


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

The door remained in place during the installation of the gasket. The door is latched during the drying process. The gasket replacement was easy to do. I used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the airborn fiberglass frizzes during the installation. A little dab of RTV was placed at the end joint


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> The door remained in place during the installation of the gasket. The door is latched during the drying process. The gasket replacement was easy to do. I used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the airborn fiberglass frizzes during the installation. A little dab of RTV was placed at the end joint


Ok. Thanks. What made you decide to have the dealer do it? If this works for you I'm going to do the same thing.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

I let the dealer do it because it is only few weeks old. The low burn on these stoves is unlike any other stove. I am very pleased. A true wood saver.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

If you call Chris at BK, he will probably send you a gasket since you are having the "smoke smell" problem too.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> If you call Chris at BK, he will probably send you a gasket since you are having the "smoke smell" problem too.


I have talked to him on here. He is going to send me the gasket. I just don't know if I want to try it myself. I have never done one before and this is my first stove. I would rather have a dealer do it but I don't really care for my dealer. I had the stove installed in July of this year. 

Also what did you use to measure your draft? It has been brought up a lot about adding chimney to increase the draft to eliminate the smoke smell. I want to measure my draft to see if my draft is the issue.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

The device I used to measure the draft is called a Magnehelic. It is use to measure faint pressures. The one I used goes from zero to .25" water column. You can get one from WW Grainger online but I don't think it will be necessary. It is ~$60.00. You will also need barb fittings and a rubber hose to connect it to the stove or flue. I jammed a volley ball inflation needle into the end of the hose to sense the stove pressure at the cat thermometer hole as this is a direct access to the fireside of the stove. If you have a flue thermometer, you could remove it and use that hole too. It will read slightly lower than the cat hole as it is higher on the flue. I used to work in HVAC and used it to check ducts, boiler operation etc.

It is the total height and the diameter (if kept reasonable)  that determine the draw at medium and low flow rates. The bends you have (2-45s) won't have any effect on draw except at high flow rates. At high flow rates the chimney will be much hotter which will in turn negate any restrictive effect they may impart on flow. At 17' I think you are in great shape draw wise.


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> The door remained in place during the installation of the gasket. The door is latched during the drying process. The gasket replacement was easy to do. I used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the airborn fiberglass frizzes during the installation. A little dab of RTV was placed at the end joint



That's craziness and sounds like a good way to glue your door shut! I've always been told to install the gasket on the bench and let it cure on the bench. Install after cure.

If I tried this with the door on I'd have had red RTV all over the place.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> The device I used to measure the draft is called a Magnehelic. It is use to measure faint pressures. The one I used goes from zero to .25" water column. You can get one from WW Grainger online but I don't think it will be necessary. It is ~$60.00. You will also need barb fittings and a rubber hose to connect it to the stove or flue. I jammed a volley ball inflation needle into the end of the hose to sense the stove pressure at the cat thermometer hole as this is a direct access to the fireside of the stove. If you have a flue thermometer, you could remove it and use that hole too. It will read slightly lower than the cat hole as it is higher on the flue. I used to work in HVAC and used it to check ducts, boiler operation etc.
> 
> It is the total height and the diameter (if kept reasonable)  that determine the draw at medium and low flow rates. The bends you have (2-45s) won't have any effect on draw except at high flow rates. At high flow rates the chimney will be much hotter which will in turn negate any restrictive effect they may impart on flow. At 17' I think you are in great shape draw wise.


Thanks for explaining all that for me.


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## blueguy (Jan 6, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> That's craziness and sounds like a good way to glue your door shut! I've always been told to install the gasket on the bench and let it cure on the bench. Install after cure.
> 
> If I tried this with the door on I'd have had red RTV all over the place.



Ditto.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

The gasket installer has been doing this for many years, so I did not question it. He too is very concerned about the success of the new gasket. He did latch the door once, then re-opened it to check for RTV squish out and the knife edge imprint. After cleaning up a few little blobs, it was re-latched for the duration of the cure. My wife is going to miss the bacon smell. The proof will be in the pudding. Stay tuned.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Anyone ever take an ashford door off?


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Anyone ever take an ashford door off?


I have to paint everything white. No biggie.


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## Heatsource (Jan 6, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> That's craziness and sounds like a good way to glue your door shut! I've always been told to install the gasket on the bench and let it cure on the bench. Install after cure.
> 
> If I tried this with the door on I'd have had red RTV all over the place.



i've re-gasketed many, many doors, I always close the door so the sealant dries in the proper shape.
in 18yrs never any complaints


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Calentarse said:


> I have to paint everything white. No biggie.


How hard was it? What's all involved?


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## Calentarse (Jan 6, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> How hard was it? What's all involved?



Stove off, lift off top. Set aside.
Back out bolts just a tad holding  the sides to the track they lay in.
Lift sides straight up and set aside.
Now that sides are removed, look around behind the door frame. The are four big nuts/bolts holding the iron face on the steel inner stove. Back them off
Unlatch the door and remove face.
Done. Prob. take you about 12 minutes.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Calentarse said:


> Stove off, lift off top. Set aside.
> Back out bolts just a tad holding  the sides to the track they lay in.
> Lift sides straight up and set aside.
> Now that sides are removed, look around behind the door frame. The are four big nuts/bolts holding the iron face on the steel inner stove. Back them off
> ...


Thanks. If I gotta change gasket I would rather the door be off.


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## Highbeam (Jan 6, 2016)

Heatsource said:


> i've re-gasketed many, many doors, I always close the door so the sealant dries in the proper shape.
> in 18yrs never any complaints



I could say the same thing about marital relations but it doesn't mean I am doing it right! Ha! just kidding really.

So do you let the RTV set up at all before setting the gasket or latching the door? The RTV instructions want you to let it skin over before doing anything. Do you then relatch the door and leave it latched for 24 hours before burn? It would be easy enough to install the gasket on the bench and then remount the door for the compression cure. I actually like your concept of forcing the RTV to fill the uneven door gasket channel and then setting up in that same irregular shape. It would tend to push the gasket closer to the glass nuts (high spots) but hold the gasket farther away in the valleys between the nuts.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 6, 2016)

Left the door on. Pull off the old gasket. Lay down a bead of caulk, then place the gasket straight way.  Latch the door then re-open and check for squish-out and knife edge imprint. Re-latch and let cure for24 hours. I will light a load tomorrow at 11:00AM and let you know...


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2016)

I like to hang a sheet of plastic over the door opening before closing so that any ooze doesn't stick to the stove body when the door is opened.


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## blueguy (Jan 7, 2016)

What I found with redoing the door gasket on mine, was that the hinge side will distort and move slightly while being compressed due to the knife edge on the stove body which is why I let it fully cure before latching it shut. If you don't, you run the risk of it not keeping a proper seal due to the gasket sliding in the uncured RTV. I would recheck the hinge side before lighting.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 7, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> Left the door on. Pull off the old gasket. Lay down a bead of caulk, then place the gasket straight way.  Latch the door then re-open and check for squish-out and knife edge imprint. Re-latch and let cure for24 hours. I will light a load tomorrow at 11:00AM and let you know...


How'd it go today?


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 7, 2016)

Preliminary report:

6 hours into burning a fully loaded chamber. The wood has traversed most of it's burning phases. No smoke/ bacon smell. Yea! In the past it would collect near the ceiling and become a lot stronger, so I got on a chair and checked. No smoke. So far so good.  Very faint smell if I hang my nose over the hinge area, but the stove might just be vaporizing leakage of the past. I am very pleased. Again, no smoke anywhere in the house so like somebody else said it is a non-event. After a few days of observation, I will give this a final blessing and pronounce this as being "the fix". I have to disprove my other theory of creosote wicking laterally through the gasket and vaporizing. As far as I am concerned if you have the smoke smell problem, replace the gasket using a continuous bead of high temp RTV. It is not hard or expensive to do. So far it is working very well for me and others before me too.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 7, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> Preliminary report:
> 
> 6 hours into burning a fully loaded chamber. The wood has traversed most of it's burning phases. No smoke/ bacon smell. Yea! In the past it would collect near the ceiling and become a lot stronger, so I got on a chair and checked. No smoke. So far so good.  Very faint smell if I hang my nose over the hinge area, but the stove might just be vaporizing leakage of the past. I am very pleased. Again, no smoke anywhere in the house so like somebody else said it is a non-event. After a few days of observation, I will give this a final blessing and pronounce this as being "the fix". I have to disprove my other theory of creosote wicking laterally through the gasket and vaporizing. As far as I am concerned if you have the smoke smell problem, replace the gasket using a continuous bead of high temp RTV. It is not hard or expensive to do. So far it is working very well for me and others before me too.


That's great to hear.


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## blueguy (Jan 8, 2016)

Glad to hear it fixed the problem. Hopefully your longer term findings are the same


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 8, 2016)

0600, 01-08-2016. Overnight slow burn (flue 250, stove top 220, cat 10:00) No smoke smell in the house at all. Zero.


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> 0600, 01-08-2016. Overnight slow burn (flue 250, stove top 220, cat 10:00) No smoke smell in the house at all. Zero.


Very happy to hear! Wondering if that's all I needed  I should have just tried the gasket done by a professional first


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## Calentarse (Jan 8, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> 0600, 01-08-2016. Overnight slow burn (flue 250, stove top 220, cat 10:00) No smoke smell in the house at all. Zero.


Do you get any smoke spillage on hot reloads? And remind me, what's your chimney makeup and height?


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## Heatsource (Jan 8, 2016)

Very, Very glad to hear that kf6ha[


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 8, 2016)

Chimney makeup: 5' double wall from stove to ceiling then 13' of  8" Metalbestos to the cap. 18' total. No bends. I don't think two 45s will have any significant effect on draft as long as they are not too close to the stove collar.  90s and horizontal runs will. No smoke spillage.


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## blueguy (Jan 8, 2016)

The general consensus I have found in all my research is that each 45* = roughly a 1' to 1.5' reduction in effective chimney height. That being said, it is a pretty minimal effect as long as he chimney is already tall enough.


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## Dieselhead (Jan 10, 2016)

Just curious if you ever used a IR gun to see how hot the face of your door gets. I did mine onetime and it was past the max of 650 degrees on high burn. I think it would eat up that silicone.


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## rdust (Jan 10, 2016)

Dieselhead said:


> Just curious if you ever used a IR gun to see how hot the face of your door gets. I did mine onetime and it was past the max of 650 degrees on high burn. I think it would eat up that silicone.



Used red RTV on mine two or three seasons back and it's holding the gasket just fine.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 10, 2016)

Dieselhead said:


> Just curious if you ever used a IR gun to see how hot the face of your door gets. I did mine onetime and it was past the max of 650 degrees on high burn. I think it would eat up that silicone.


The copper RTV at the auto parts store is recommended for auto exhaust systems and is rated 800 intermittent. Or I've seen other silicone rated for 1100. I like to put the door on after placing the gasket so it hardens while conforming to where it has to be. Like begreen said, put a barrier between the gasket and stove body. Waxed paper, etc. I don't put the cement in real thick, maybe 1/4" bead, and haven't been using a barrier. Haven't had much ooze out.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 11, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> 0600, 01-08-2016. Overnight slow burn (flue 250, stove top 220, cat 10:00) No smoke smell in the house at all. Zero.


How'd the weekend go? Still no smoke smell?


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 12, 2016)

The jury is still out.  I will get back with you when I have completed my study.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 14, 2016)

I just had a very long discussion with BKVP. First let me say, he is a very very knowledgeable about every aspect of BK stoves. As it turns out almost all of the stoves that have the "smoke smell" problems have something going on with their chimney system. After replacing my loading door gasket, almost all of the smell problem has vanished. I can easily live with this stove the way it is. Often times I get no smoke smell but at sometimes I do. Let me quantify the problem: my wife remarked we have less odor than with the old stove (would rather not name it as it should not have been put in this house). My chimney, being composed mainly of 8" Metalbestos, is _almost _high enough. Chris is in the process of investigating an exceptionally dense gasket. The concern is the gasket might be so dense that the door will not shut. He will get back with me in about 2-3 weeks as he will be on the road. Two possible fixes exist for me: 1. Regasketing. 2. Place a 6" stainless steel pipe within my 8" as the 8" is over cooling the stack gasses. 

Once again, the gasket replacement with a continuous 3/8" bead of RTV is well worth doing but if you can wait, more gasket information is forthcoming. 

I might not post for a while but if I get any information I will. 

Blaze King is absolutely concerned with the end user of their products. This is a very rare thing these days. I am truly pleased.


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## Highbeam (Jan 14, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> Once again, the gasket replacement with a continuous 3/8" bead of RTV is well worth doing but if you can wait, more gasket information is forthcoming.



I'm working on a princess and am ordering the BK OEM gasket now. On the 3/8" bead of RTV, did you get a feeling that ultra black RTV is acceptable vs. the slightly higher temp rated red or copper? 3/8" bead is a lot. Did you get it done with one toothpaste tube or was a caulking tube required or a second toothpaste tube?

I also spoke with BKVP about these ashfords and most of the problem stoves have been resolved.

I still think the door gasket is weak, as you found, but that a strong enough draft can overcome it. The stronger draft has additional benefits with regards to turn down rates and smoke rollout so getting a proper chimney is a higher priority than a super door seal.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 14, 2016)

kf6ha[ said:


> I just had a very long discussion with BKVP. First let me say, he is a very very knowledgeable about every aspect of BK stoves. As it turns out almost all of the stoves that have the "smoke smell" problems have something going on with their chimney system. After replacing my loading door gasket, almost all of the smell problem has vanished. I can easily live with this stove the way it is. Often times I get no smoke smell but at sometimes I do. Let me quantify the problem: my wife remarked we have less odor than with the old stove (would rather not name it as it should not have been put in this house). My chimney, being composed mainly of 8" Metalbestos, is _almost _high enough. Chris is in the process of investigating an exceptionally dense gasket. The concern is the gasket might be so dense that the door will not shut. He will get back with me in about 2-3 weeks as he will be on the road. Two possible fixes exist for me: 1. Regasketing. 2. Place a 6" stainless steel pipe within my 8" as the 8" is over cooling the stack gasses.
> 
> Once again, the gasket replacement with a continuous 3/8" bead of RTV is well worth doing but if you can wait, more gasket information is forthcoming.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update.


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## kf6ha[ (Jan 15, 2016)

My vendor, A-1 Stoves in Grass Valley, Ca. used red hi-temp RTV from a caulk tube. Sorry, I don't know the brand but if it is rated 600F (like his),  it should work. I don't know about the copper. If it actually has copper in it this might possibly be bad for the cat. I don't think color matters as long as it takes the heat. Yes, the 3/8 bead is kind of thick but it worked for me and others too. As for the stove operation I can run the stove top (thermometer just forward of the cat thermometer)  at 225F and keep the cat lit at 9:00. That is barely running at all as the sides and stove top edges are only warm to the touch. Keeping a continuous burn, I get no spillage at reload. From this, I think my chimney system is, at least, close to being what it should be. 

From Chris, many of these stoves with "smoke smell" are actually on the verge of being smell free with just a little more draw. A few feet might do. I would also check for flue joint leaks as the admission of a very small amount of air can easily spoil the draw. I suspect a gasket change-out might resolve an issue if your stove is just on the edge or, like me, make the situation very livable. This can make adding a few more feet of flue next year a reasonable thing.

I have been burning since '71 and with the Ashford for 28 days and am extremely pleased with her operation.  Best stove ever. New burners won't know how good they have it. My old Franklin had a pension for glowing red and turning the key damper just meant the smoke was going into the house instead of up the flue. I even installed a 1/4HP exhaust fan (back in '73) in the ceiling. Just don't forget to open the front door first or it suck the flames right out of the fire box.  Most people that visit see it and say oh-how nice a whole house fan for the summer. Never get a smoke spill with the BK.

Even if I don't do another thing the Ashford is here to stay. Just trying to perfect things.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 15, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> you get it done with one toothpaste tube or was a caulking tube required or a second toothpaste tube?


One toothpaste tube is more than enough.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 19, 2016)

Any update from anyone? Wife says it smells like a camp fire when she walks into stove room. I'm hoping something gets figured out.


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2016)

Not good. Did you replace the gasket using rtv to cement it in?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 19, 2016)

Not yet. Waiting on materials. BKVP said they ordered some 7/8 gasket and would send me the gasket and the proper adhesive.


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## begreen (Jan 19, 2016)

That should help. In the meantime put the fixings for smores on the table


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 19, 2016)

begreen said:


> That should help. In the meantime put the fixings for smores on the table


Lol. I'll give that a try.


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## kf6hap (Jan 20, 2016)

Ohiojoe  How far is it from the stove top to the first 45?  Is the pipe on the roof 8" or 6"?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 20, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Ohiojoe  How far is it from the stove top to the first 45?  Is the pipe on the roof 8" or 6"?


From the top of the stove to the screws on the 45 it's 4 feet. There is 6 feet total inside the house. Then the attic which isn't much. Then 9'6" outside. Plus the cap.


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## kf6hap (Jan 20, 2016)

After my gasket replacement the problem is 95% gone. I can still get a little smell when, after the 20 minute full-open load char,  I turn it down. If, for turn down, I turn the thermostat down until the damper just seats then wait 10 minutes and do this it again repeatedly until I reach the desired burn rate, often times no smoke is detectable at all. Interim, you might want to try this.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 20, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> After my gasket replacement the problem is 95% gone. I can still get a little smell when, after the 20 minute full-open load char,  I turn it down. If, for turn down, I turn the thermostat down until the damper just seats then wait 10 minutes and do this it again repeatedly until I reach the desired burn rate, often times no smoke is detectable at all. Interim, you might want to try this.


I'll give that a try. 
What I still don't understand is how there is a smoke smell with a sealed stove.


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## Highbeam (Jan 20, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I'll give that a try.
> What I still don't understand is how there is a smoke smell with a sealed stove.



It is apparently not sealed well enough. Defect in some aspect of the door gasket seal is the most likely culprit.


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## kf6hap (Jan 20, 2016)

Ohiojoe, I suspect your stove is like mine-on the verge of being perfect but needs a little more flue stack. The gasket change out should help a lot. I have the same problem you have-getting that last few feet installed.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 21, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Ohiojoe, I suspect your stove is like mine-on the verge of being perfect but needs a little more flue stack. The gasket change out should help a lot. I have the same problem you have-getting that last few feet installed.


Are you planning on adding more chimney? If so how many feet?


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## kf6hap (Jan 21, 2016)

I have 18' so it is high enough. BKVP will be getting back with me on the extreme density gasket in ~2 weeks. I will try that first. The problem with my flue is it is 8" and cools the stack gasses to much preventing the required draw. The next step would be to place 6: single layer stainless pipe down the center of the existing 8" pipe. The double walled solid pack pipe is very expensive. I think the 6" internal liner will do it as it will be super insulated from the outside cold. Higher is a last resort for me.

If you decide to add on I suggest a 4' section as the cost difference is not that great. Then get a soot eater so you never have to access the top of the stack.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 21, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> I have 18' so it is high enough. BKVP will be getting back with me on the extreme density gasket in ~2 weeks. I will try that first. The problem with my flue is it is 8" and cools the stack gasses to much preventing the required draw. The next step would be to place 6: single layer stainless pipe down the center of the existing 8" pipe. The double walled solid pack pipe is very expensive. I think the 6" internal liner will do it as it will be super insulated from the outside cold. Higher is a last resort for me.
> 
> If you decide to add on I suggest a 4' section as the cost difference is not that great. Then get a soot eater so you never have to access the top of the stack.


I'm gonna try the gasket first. If that don't work then I'll probably add the 4 foot. What is keeping me from wanting to add more chimney is that my dealer wants a ton of money to do it. I feel I like they should have known the 45s would have effects on the daft and should have said it needed to be taller. I have no problems paying for the pipe it's the labor they are trying to charge me when it should have been done when they installed it.


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## kf6hap (Jan 21, 2016)

I agree, the cheaper solution first. Adding the pipe should only be 1 hour of labor. Very simple to do. For the cost of the labor you might be able to purchase an orchard ladder and cut off the swing-out leg. It looks like you have ~10' sticking out of the roof. A 12' ladder might work as you only need to reach the bottom joint of the top piece of pipe. The chimney pipe can be purchased from the web. You must use the same brand so they interlock together.


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## begreen (Jan 21, 2016)

Hope the rtv glued gasket does the trick. 4 more feet would make the chimney look like a silver rocket on the house. It is already pretty high. Additional footage is going to need more strong bracing.


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## kf6hap (Jan 21, 2016)

You can make your own extended brace arms with 1/2" electrical metal tubing (EMT). Just smash the ends flat with a hammer and drill holes as needed. My house looks the same as yours, the chimney is taller than the house! It is 56F outside and the ashford is keeping it 75 inside, perfect for me but my wife likes it 80 so I guess it is time to shift the setting a little. Stove top 200F cat at 10 O'clock. Amazing.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

begreen said:


> Hope the rtv glued gasket does the trick. 4 more feet would make the chimney look like a silver rocket on the house. It is already pretty high. Additional footage is going to need more strong bracing.


Would I need to add another brace or remove the one I have and use something stronger?


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

I am not an expert but I would leave the existing brace and add one more. You might use the same roof attachment points and add the new support arms to them thus avoiding more roof penetrations. It would depend on the angles involved. It just has to be rigid enough to withstand the wind blowing it over.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm thinking if I do it myself I'm going to need some kind of boom lift. When on the roof I can barely reach the bottom of the top section. So trying to stand up an 8 foot section of pipe might be tricky. And at over $230 per 4 foot pipe I don't wanna risk dropping it.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

The ladder I use is an adjustable combination A frame-extension type so even though it is on an angular roof, it is properly level and safe to use. The addition of leg levelers can be added on to one side to even things up if on a steeper roof. Two ladders will be required though, one to get onto the roof and one to use once you get there. No acrobatics required. Yes, the pipe is costly and a bit heavy too. You will need at least an 8' ladder.

I replace the pipe, after cleaning, one piece at a time.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> The ladder I use is an adjustable combination A frame-extension type so even though it is on an angular roof, it is properly level and safe to use. The addition of leg levelers can be added on to one side to even things up if on a steeper roof. Two ladders will be required though, one to get onto the roof and one to use once you get there. No acrobatics required. Yes, the pipe is costly and a bit heavy too. You will need at least an 8' ladder.
> 
> I replace the pipe, after cleaning, one piece at a time.


I can't picture what you are trying to explain.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

A typical A frame ladder has legs that swing out and lock into place. Placed on a roof it might fall over or at least the stairs will be straight up and down and thus very unsafe to climb. An extension A frame ladder has adjustable swing out legs to accommodate an uneven surface. The one I use is made by Werner. Little Giant makes one too but extension legs can't be added. Home Depot sells the Werner ladders. You can look at them on the web. The installation labor might pay for it then down the road you can do any repairs yourself. A local rental outfit might be the way to go and permit trying different sizes to figure out the best one to buy.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> A typical A frame ladder has legs that swing out and lock into place. Placed on a roof it might fall over or at least the stairs will be straight up and down and thus very unsafe to climb. An extension A frame ladder has adjustable swing out legs to accommodate an uneven surface. The one I use is made by Werner. Little Giant makes one too but extension legs can't be added. Home Depot sells the Werner ladders. You can look at them on the web. The installation labor might pay for it then down the road you can do any repairs yourself. A local rental outfit might be the way to go and permit trying different sizes to figure out the best one to buy.


Ok I got what you're saying now. Once I read litter giant I knew exactly what you were taking about.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

Look at Home depot SKU# 856265 and 740106.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> I am not an expert but I would leave the existing brace and add one more. You might use the same roof attachment points and add the new support arms to them thus avoiding more roof penetrations. It would depend on the angles involved. It just has to be rigid enough to withstand the wind blowing it over.


Wind and snow. A brace is required at every 5 ft. above the roof exit point for the chimney.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

Go to:
http://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/duratech.pdf

See Page 13


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Look at Home depot SKU# 856265 and 740106.


Thanks. 

What about it sliding on the shingles?  My roof is a 6/12 pitch. Ever have any issues with that?


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

That is a rather steep pitch but the ladder can be secured with a rope so it can't slide. The feet are designed to grip and shingle grit is highly frictional. The flared stance of the ladder makes it very steady. How high above the roof is the existing stack?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> That is a rather steep pitch but the ladder can be secured with a rope so it can't slide. The feet are designed to grip and shingle grit is highly frictional. The flared stance of the ladder makes it very steady. How high above the roof is the existing stack?


From the roof to the bottom of cap it's 9'6".


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

Pitch angle info:


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Pitch angle info:


It may be more than 6/12. It's walkable but seems more than 6/12 after looking at chart.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

The home depot ladder# 856265 is 6-11' and you don't want to stand on the top rung. The 3rd one down is the usual stop point for good balance. You will still be above the ladder top. I don't know how tall you are so I can't guess your maximum reach height. Worst case scenario, the top two flue sections can be joined together then placed and secured.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2016)

You have plenty of flue/chimney. 6 ft in the room, 3 ft ? in the attic and 9'6" outside = 18.5 ft..

At that 9'6" outside the chimney is just shy of needing a second brace. I would probably add one, especially if this is a high wind area.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 22, 2016)

begreen said:


> You have plenty of flue/chimney. 6 ft in the room, 3 ft ? in the attic and 9'6" outside = 18.5 ft..
> 
> At that 9'6" outside the chimney is just shy of needing a second brace. I would probably add one, especially if this is a high wind area.


It is less than 1' in the attic because of vaulted ceiling in stove room.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2016)

That's still 16+ ft. which is within spec.


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## kf6hap (Jan 22, 2016)

I was looking at the picture of your stove inside the house and it looks like you have the same telescoping connector pipe as do I. Mine was admitting (sucking in) room air at the very bottom. I found this with a butane lighter flame. It was sucking the flame into the pipe (the stove should be hot for the test). The fix was to stuff some fiberglass stove rope up into the interspace area. The stove will have to be cool so the top plate can be removed so you can get the rope and your fingers in there to pack it in tightly to form a seal. I also found a little air leaking at the top of the connector pipe and applied caulk. Fixing air leaks helps.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> I was looking at the picture of your stove inside the house and it looks like you have the same telescoping connector pipe as do I. Mine was admitting (sucking in) room air at the very bottom. I found this with a butane lighter flame. It was sucking the flame into the pipe (the stove should be hot for the test). The fix was to stuff some fiberglass stove rope up into the interspace area. The stove will have to be cool so the top plate can be removed so you can get the rope and your fingers in there to pack it in tightly to form a seal. I also found a little air leaking at the top of the connector pipe and applied caulk. Fixing air leaks helps.


I gave that a try. I took a lighter around all the connections. Didn't notice anything different in the flame.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

I really wish I could sent this stove back and have it replaced with another one.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2016)

Have you talked with the dealer? What other brands/models do they sell?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

begreen said:


> Have you talked with the dealer? What other brands/models do they sell?


My dealer told me when you have a wood stove you will have a smoke smell. No help at all.  I 100% sure I want a blazeking ashford 30.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2016)

Nonsense. Seems like the dealer could at least replace the gasket first. Has the door gasket been replaced yet with a new one glued in with RTV?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

begreen said:


> Nonsense. Seems like the dealer could at least replace the gasket first. Has the door gasket been replaced yet with a new one glued in with RTV?


No still wait for the gasket and rtv to be shipped. I would like the gasket replace by a dealer as I don't feel real comfortable doing it. The stove is less than 6 months old.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2016)

Understood. This is an expensive investment. It should work correctly and not everyone should be doing their own stove work. We get a lot of enthusiasts online here, but the majority of stove owners just want a stove that works well. Not everyone is mechanically inclined.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

begreen said:


> Understood. This is an expensive investment. It should work correctly and not everyone should be doing their own stove work. We get a lot of enthusiasts online here, but the majority of stove owners just want a stove that works well. Not everyone is mechanically inclined.


It's not that I'm not mechanically inclined because I am. It's that it is a brand new stove and I shouldn't have to be repairing a brand new stove that's less than 6 months old. I really like the stove but the smoke smell is driving me crazy.


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

While I was waiting for my gasket change-out my Dave at the stove shop gave me a piece of self stick flat (1/2"wide) window glass gasket. It was thin in the middle and a little thicker on the edge. I cut off a pieced placed it on the hinge side. It cut the amount of smoke way down. I believe if you call BKVP at BK, they will arrange to pay for any repairs.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> While I was waiting for my gasket change-out my Dave at the stove shop gave me a piece of self stick flat (1/2"wide) window glass gasket. It was thin in the middle and a little thicker on the edge. I cut off a pieced placed it on the hinge side. It cut the amount of smoke way down. I believe if you call BKVP at BK, they will arrange to pay for any repairs.


I have brought it up to BKVP that I would like it installed by a dealer. 

You have the new gasket. And 18' of chimney and still have the smoke smell. What's the next step for you?


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

The amount of smoke smell I have is very very small now, less than with my old top loading stove. I could do nothing more and be happy with things the way they are now but want this to be perfect. My next step is to place single wall 6" pipe within my existing 8" to give me more draft without increasing height. The 8" pipe allows the flue gasses to cool too much. When you get your gasket replaced it will be a great improvement. My stove guy, Dave from A-1, used gasketing he had on hand. I believe it was the continuous bead of RTV that did the trick.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> The amount of smoke smell I have is very very small now, less than with my old top loading stove. I could do nothing more and be happy with things the way they are now but want this to be perfect. My next step is to place single wall 6" pipe within my existing 8" to give me more draft without increasing height. The 8" pipe allows the flue gasses to cool too much. When you get your gasket replaced it will be a great improvement. My stove guy, Dave from A-1, used gasketing he had on hand. I believe it was the continuous bead of RTV that did the trick.


I really hope the rtv does the trick.


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

How long before the gasket change out?


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> How long before the gasket change out?


I'm not sure what
Still waiting for it to be shipped. I want it professional installed so I'll have to find out the details on that.


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

In the meanwhile, you could try the thin window gasket trick as I mentioned before. The stuff is cheap and reversible if you don't like it. It is sold at many hardware stores and is not expensive.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> In the meanwhile, you could try the thin window gasket trick as I mentioned before. The stuff is cheap and reversible if you don't like it. It is sold at many hardware stores and is not expensive.


I can try that. Just called window gasket? Any certain thiconfess or temp rating?  How did you keep it in there?  Do you happen to have any pictures?  Thanks for the help.


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

It is quite thin,  ~1/2" wide with adhesive in the back. I cut a piece and placed it on the hinge side centered in the knife edge impression. It is very thin in the middle (just a web of fiberglass), thicker the edges so it tended to hug the knife edge when the door was shut. Sorry, no pictures as the whole gasket has been replaced. It did help with the smoke a lot. If it is fiberglass, it will take the heat. It will stink for a while as it cures.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> It is quite thin,  ~1/2" wide with adhesive in the back. I cut a piece and placed it on the hinge side centered in the knife edge impression. It is very thin in the middle (just a web of fiberglass), thicker the edges so it tended to hug the knife edge when the door was shut. Sorry, no pictures as the whole gasket has been replaced. It did help with the smoke a lot. If it is fiberglass, it will take the heat. It will stink for a while as it cures.


Worth a try.


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## kf6hap (Jan 24, 2016)

I just found a small piece that was trimmed off. It is 7/8" wide and looks like the graphoglass stuff made by Rutland sold at Ace Hardware.


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## troy-pit (Jan 24, 2016)

kf6hap and Ohio Do you have any reference for the smoke smell you are getting.  What I mean is have you ever had another wood burning
stove before.  I have never had a stove or fireplace but I would seem to think that any stove or fireplace will have "some" smell no matter
the brand type or kind.  This smoke smell issue really freaks me out.  Although you say your are still happy you keep posting on here to indicate
all is not well in swellville.  I understand this and I want a perfect stove too but I am still researching different stoves.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 25, 2016)

troy-pit said:


> kf6hap and Ohio Do you have any reference for the smoke smell you are getting.  What I mean is have you ever had another wood burning
> stove before.  I have never had a stove or fireplace but I would seem to think that any stove or fireplace will have "some" smell no matter
> the brand type or kind.  This smoke smell issue really freaks me out.  Although you say your are still happy you keep posting on here to indicate
> all is not well in swellville.  I understand this and I want a perfect stove too but I am still researching different stoves.


This is my first stove. I do like the stove. Long burn times and that was important to me. Also it's very easy to operate. Load wood, burn on high for 20 to 30 min, then sent the thermostat to desired temp. Repeat. The smell does bother me and I want it fixed.


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## kf6hap (Jan 25, 2016)

Troy
As far as I am concerned, the BK is the best stove on the market. The most important feature of a wood stove is turn down-the lowest BTU output attainable without the polluting, creosoting up the flue system or becoming finicky and requiring constant adjustment. This extreme turn down rate gives you the wonderfully long burn times and fuel efficiency.  Maximum heat out is important to be sure but controllability is equally important. The action of the thermostatic controller on the BK is excellent-unmatched by any other stove. I have been heating with wood since 1971 and had many other (one costing considerably more than my Ashford) stoves. 

My chimney system is a few feet too short or too big around (it is 8", not the required 6") to produce the required draw to make the stove function properly. I acknowledge my chimney system _is_ defective. Next summer I plan on doing something to improve my chimney system (expensive). In the meantime a gasket replacement (quick and inexpensive) has made my situation very livable. 

Once ohiojoe has his gasket replaced, I strongly suspect his situation will be as mine-very livable or, perhaps, completely smoke free. If it is not completely smoke free a few feet of flue added on will fix it. It is as simple as that.

In my discussion with BKVP about the "smoke smell" issue, it is the chimney system that is _always_ at fault. A gasket replacement _might_ greatly improve (as in my case) or fix things but the real fix is in a proper chimney system. 

From BKVP: All of the operational and smoke problems vanish when the chimney system is proper. This applies not only to BK stoves, but ALL wood stoves.

A proper chimney system (anybody please correct me if you disagree) is 16' of 6" flue with no bends. The stove to ceiling pipe must be double walled. If you have bends, a few feet more will be needed. If most of the flue system is in the outside (unshielded from the cold), a few feet extra might be needed also.

Every installation will have some variations, so the above numbers are not a concrete thing, but they are very close.

I hope this puts things into proper perspective.


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## Highbeam (Jan 25, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> As far as I am concerned, the BK is the best stove on the market. The most important feature of a wood stove is turn down-the lowest BTU output attainable without the polluting, creosoting up the flue system or becoming finicky and requiring constant adjustment. This extreme turn down rate gives you the wonderfully long burn times and fuel efficiency. Maximum heat out is important to be sure but controllability is equally important. The action of the thermostatic controller on the BK is excellent-unmatched by any other stove.



Well said, good job. Until you've experienced this control it is hard to properly value it. How can a person ever go back to a stove with 30% of the burn time?



kf6hap said:


> All of the operational and smoke problems vanish when the chimney system is proper. This applies not only to BK stoves, but ALL wood stoves.
> 
> A proper chimney system (anybody please correct me if you disagree) is 16' of 6" flue with no bends. The stove to ceiling pipe must be double walled. If you have bends, a few feet more will be needed. If most of the flue system is in the outside (unshielded from the cold), a few feet extra might be needed also.
> 
> Every installation will have some variations, so the above numbers are not a concrete thing, but they are very close.



BK used to only require 12' for the princess and now 15'. Seems we are all learning. New owners will be best served with the all vertical, all double wall, 15' tall stack which is ideal. The BK manual doesn't require double wall connector pipe. I too have observed that about every problem stove seems to have a substandard chimney involved.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 25, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> A proper chimney system (anybody please correct me if you disagree) is 16' of 6" flue with no bends.


I agree that the thermostat is a great feature. I'd like to have it for burning down the coals automatically. The Woodstocks I've had have run well after initially setting the air to cruise. The Keystone has a small air hole in the ash pan housing, so the coals pretty much take care of themselves, Fireview I had to open the air on the coals a little. The Dutchwest needs a little air added in the middle of the burn to keep cranking the heat, and a little more at the end on the coals. A bit too much fiddling, but it's just my backup stove. There's one guy who put an ash pan hole in his IS, and says the coals are totally burned down by the end of the load.
I have to disagree about the 'proper' chimney, though. That depends on how easily a particular stove breathes. Woodstock recommends 15' for the Fireview but Dennis was running his on 13' with a thru-the-wall chimney. My BIL's Fireview is on a 13.5' stack. Both report no problems with smoke roll-out or odors, even with warmer outside temps. The Fireview is  also rear-vented, not straight up. The Hearthstone Manchester manual calls for 10' of stack, last time I looked.


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## kf6hap (Jan 26, 2016)

Yes, I agree, each stove will have different chimney system requirements. One very important thing I did leave out is altitude correction. So 5 things can effectively reduce the height of a chimney system: 1. Bends 2. Single wall pipe 3. Horizontal runs 4. The amount of pipe exposed directly to the weather 5. Altitude. If you take the "manual minimum height" and add height to compensate for each the above mentioned factors, a proper chimney system can be had if an appropriate amount of additional height is added to return the draw to the minimum required for proper operation. How much needed additional height for each "shortening" factor is the question I, not being a chimney expert, can't answer. The above assumes solid pack pipe is used form ceiling to cap and the appropriate diameter is used. The process of calculating minimum chimney height could be accomplished by the use of charts and be perfect every time.


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## kf6hap (Jan 26, 2016)

Altitude correction


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## begreen (Jan 26, 2016)

A stove should work within a range of normal chimney heights as presented by one story and two story homes. Factoring in for altitude is a good idea when this gets above around 2000 ft.. Other factors like negative pressure in the home or a 3 story chimney can further affect draft.


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## ohiojoe13 (Jan 26, 2016)

Just an update. 
Just got off the phone with Chris from blazeking. Great guy. He is working on a few things to get my smoke smell fixed. 

It's great to have a stove with such great customer service. Thanks. 

Will post more updates when I find out more.


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## kf6hap (Jan 26, 2016)

Yes, Blaze King support is wonderful. Chris knows knows his stuff.


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## kf6hap (Feb 6, 2016)

No news yet.


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## begreen (Feb 7, 2016)

What are your outdoor temps like now?


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## jetsam (Feb 7, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Altitude correction



I am pretty sure that a 30' chimney pipe would blow away at 11,000 feet! =D


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## kf6hap (Feb 7, 2016)

39F and getting warmer at 0500. Smoke smell very light but still have it. No smell change from when it was colder. Still awaiting for a response from BKVP as he is investigating different gasketing.


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## begreen (Feb 7, 2016)

Just checking, the draft should be good at that temp.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 8, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> No news yet.


Hopefully have an update soon.


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## Highbeam (Feb 8, 2016)

begreen said:


> What are your outdoor temps like now?



You're just trying to make him jealous, western WA outdoor temps are supposed to hit upper 60s this week!


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## begreen (Feb 8, 2016)

Ha. More like I wanted to know if the outdoor temps were like ours or cooler during the test. Local forecast here is for a high of 60F for the next couple days. That's heat pump weather if we need it. It's much more efficient and less costly than burning.


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## kf6hap (Feb 11, 2016)

I just placed ~10' of 6" single wall pipe inside my 8" chimney. This brings it down to the required 6".  Need to burn for a few days to analyze.

Magnehelic readings:
At 600F flue it was and remains .11"
At 200F flue it was .03" and is now .05". Substantially higher.

Update on 2-12 added 6" pipe to the last section. Now the full chimney is 6"X17' no bends.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 14, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> I just placed ~10' of 6" single wall pipe inside my 8" chimney. This brings it down to the required 6".  Need to burn for a few days to analyze.
> 
> Magnehelic readings:
> At 600F flue it was and remains .11"
> ...


Did it take care of the smoke smell?


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## kf6hap (Feb 14, 2016)

Preliminary-it is warm outside so I can't stuff the fire box completely full (3/4) but the answer so far is yes. The only smell I get now is infiltration from the outside. After the 30 minute load char to drive out the moisture turn down was when I could notice the smell the most. The gasket replacement and the chimney improvement have done it, just as BKVP said it would. It is like I predicted earlier: I thought my unit is on the verge of being smoke free. I liken this to treading water-one inch makes all the difference. The "draw" (chimney suction) has increased somewhat preventing the smell. The total chimney height is now 17', not 18 but the draw is stronger. 


I doubt a completely full load will make any difference because the draft will be even stronger. 

Interesting points:
The thermostat is quicker to respond to heat request increases. The stove takes a bit longer to cool down when turning the thermostat down as the stronger draw is pulling somewhat more air through the damper plate hole. Comparing the Ashford convection + radiation stove to my other 100% radiative stoves, the other rooms are warmer. My wife says the heat is more consistent. The cast iron outer encasement really goes a long way towards smoothing out the heat flow and is a stove of beauty too.


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## rdust (Feb 14, 2016)

9.9 times out of 10 it's either the wood or draft.


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## kf6hap (Feb 14, 2016)

71F outside, 83F inside, stove top 200 no smell.


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## begreen (Feb 14, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> .
> Interesting points:
> The thermostat is quicker to respond to heat request increases. The stove takes a bit longer to cool down when turning the thermostat down as the stronger draw is pulling somewhat more air through the damper plate hole. Comparing the Ashford convection + radiation stove to my other 100% radiative stoves, the other rooms are warmer. My wife says the heat is more consistent. The cast iron outer encasement really goes a long way towards smoothing out the heat flow and is a stove of beauty too.



Good deal and good news! Happy to hear that is behind you. I agree about cast iron jacketing the stove, be it cat or not. It really evens out the heat nicely. 

71F outside and you are burning?! Man, that's hard core.


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## pdxdave (Feb 14, 2016)

begreen said:


> *71F outside and you are burning?! Man, that's hard core.*



That's what I was thinking 
That's almost AC weather


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## kf6hap (Feb 14, 2016)

My wife and dogs like it at ~80. We _love_ wood. So for every degree you drop the thermostat you save 2% on wood?


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## begreen (Feb 14, 2016)

At 71F and sunny outside we'd be outdoors.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 15, 2016)

begreen said:


> 71F outside and you are burning?! Man, that's hard core.



Hey, you are either a wood burner or you aren't.


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## Highbeam (Feb 15, 2016)

begreen said:


> At 71F and sunny outside we'd be outdoors.



Outside burning wood perhaps.


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## begreen (Feb 15, 2016)

Evening campfire, definitely yes. Indoors taking the house temp up to 80F when 71F outside, not a chance. Too much work went into splitting, stacking, & moving that wood.


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## Squisher (Feb 15, 2016)

I love an overheated house.  Underwear weather I call it. Lol.


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## CenterTree (Feb 15, 2016)

Squisher said:


> I love an overheated house. * Underwear weather I call it.* Lol.



*T M I * 


.


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## kf6hap (Feb 17, 2016)

Ohiojoe: I consider my smoke smell problem fixed. I strongly suspect a few more feet of pipe will fix yours too. I hope it is a "doable" thing for you.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

kf6hap said:


> Ohiojoe: I consider my smoke smell problem fixed. I strongly suspect a few more feet of pipe will fix yours too. I hope it is a "doable" thing for you.


I will be adding to mine. Just waiting for a good day to do it. I'm going to rent a lift to put it on.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

Be sure to brace properly if necessary.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

begreen said:


> Be sure to brace properly if necessary.


I was told that I didn't need to add another brace. And that I already have the largest brace available.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

Chimney bracing depends on the amount of chimney that is unsecured. A brace is required at every 5 ft. of chimney that projects past the roof exit point.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

begreen said:


> Chimney bracing depends on the amount of chimney that is unsecured. A brace is required at every 5 ft. of chimney that projects past the roof exit point.


After I add the new section I will have about 12 feet outside. What should I use for a brace if I already have the longest one.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

How much pipe do you intend to add? Can you post a picture of the current setup?


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

I'm adding a 3 foot section.


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## pdxdave (Feb 21, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> I'm adding a 3 foot section.


Wow thats already quite a long chimney.


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2016)

As I understand it, you're supposed to have that brace clamp the pipe at the 5' point above the roof and then the next one five feet above that. These sky high pipe chimneys don't seem attractive to me.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks that helps. It is hard to tell due to the angle of the photo, but it looks like current brace angle is large. It should be about 60 degrees.  The legs on an adjustable brace at a 60º angle to the chimney can extend up to about 10 ft. (DuraVent's = 114" at full extension) Looks like you are already at that. If there is less than 24" above the current brace then 36" is ok. If the part above the current brace point is greater than 24", then guy wiring would be advisable, or add 24" of pipe instead.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> As I understand it, you're supposed to have that brace clamp the pipe at the 5' point above the roof and then the next one five feet above that. These sky high pipe chimneys don't seem attractive to me.


Knowing what I know now I would have never put it there when I did.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

Roof holes can be patched and skillfully reshingled in that area. We had to have that done when we raised the house and removed the masonry chimneys. It worked out fine.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

Just got on the roof to measure.  The brace is at 6 feet. I have 33 inches about that. Plus th3 cap. The legs are at about 50 degrees. And the legs measure 71 inches. Could I just move this brace up and add one lower?


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## Highbeam (Feb 21, 2016)

begreen said:


> Roof holes can be patched and skillfully reshingled in that area. We had to have that done when we raised the house and removed the masonry chimneys. It worked out fine.



We also had an old masonry chimney removed. You can't tell it was ever there except for the roof framing viewed from in the attic. 

Keeping more of that required flue length warm in the attic will create a stronger draft than 12' swinging around in the cold outside air.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

Moving the stove isn't gonna happen. I had to cut the carpet for the hearth pad. Patching the textured ceiling never looks right without doing the whole room.


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## begreen (Feb 21, 2016)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Just got on the roof to measure.  The brace is at 6 feet. I have 33 inches about that. Plus th3 cap. The legs are at about 50 degrees. And the legs measure 71 inches. Could I just move this brace up and add one lower?


Sounds like you could lower the current brace to the 5 ft point and then add a new one with longer legs (Duravent legs = 114" max) at 5 ft above the 1st brace if the legs will reach that far. 
http://www.amazon.com/DuraVent-DuraPlus-Extended-Roof-Bracket/dp/B0011Z5ZNK


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

begreen said:


> Sounds like you could lower the current brace to the 5 ft point and then add a new one with longer legs (Duravent legs = 114" max) at 5 ft above the 1st brace if the legs will reach that far.
> http://www.amazon.com/DuraVent-DuraPlus-Extended-Roof-Bracket/dp/B0011Z5ZNK


Ok I'll give that a try.


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## rdust (Feb 21, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> These sky high pipe chimneys don't seem attractive to me.



Yep, a pipe poking 3' out near the ridge would be the ticket.  As they say hindsight is 20/20.


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## ohiojoe13 (Feb 21, 2016)

rdust said:


> Yep, a pipe poking 3' out near the ridge would be the ticket.  As they say hindsight is 20/20.


Welll the original plan would have put it right by the Ridge. Then when the stove store said I would save some money putting it where it is. At first they only wanted to install 12 feet. Like you said hindsight is 20/20.


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## kf6hap (Feb 21, 2016)

Don't forget, you can make longer legs out of EMT with the ends pounded flat. 1/2" or 3/4" will do.


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## Calentarse (Mar 19, 2017)

Just wanted to chime in and give an update on my stove.  Although adding the height and new gasket to my stove helped a lot, it has not completely fixed my issues.  I live with it because it's a phenomenal stove and I don't feel like anything else fits my house in fit and function like this stove.  When it's below 40 outside, I hardly notice the smell.  Yet, if it's 40s or warmer out; if my chimney is getting dirty; or there is wood burning near the door, I can smell the stove in the stove room.  I can't do anything about it.  I'm not willing to move my stove in the room and recut everything to move the chimney to avoid the 45s.  I'm not willing to add pipe to the stratosphere. 

I'm posting today to let everyone know that I truly believe the issue is somehow the glass.  After all is said and done with the door gasket, I still have a smell.  When I smell above the front of the stove, there's an odor.  When I smell above the door joint, there is an odor.  Coming down one level more, if I smell above the glass, there is an odor.  *Only when I go below the glass/door joint does the odor vanish.*  I still think something is faulty within the glass gasketing.  One can obviously compensate for this by requiring lots of chimney for stronger drafts so that the "spillage" is offset, no?  I'm no physicist; it just seems like simple reasoning.  

*Has anyone isolated the issue to the glass gasket by regasketing the glass? *@blueguy @BKVP @ohiojoe13 @pdxdave @kf6hap 

My brother has a 2040 that needs a rebuild and is considering the Ashford.  He's leery because he too can only add about 16' of chimney and knows of my problems.  My dad has a woodstock and doesn't suffer from these issues (he also has 26 ft. of stack) so it's difficult for me to make a case for how amazing the BK is...nothing is worth the incessant battle of a smoke smell.  Not burn times, not efficiency, not beauty, nothing.


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## kf6hap (Mar 19, 2017)

What is your total stack height now? What is the flue diameter?


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## jetsam (Mar 19, 2017)

If there is air leaking through your door (or any other part of the stove) and there is a fire in the stove, the air is going from the room and up the flue.

Next time you smell smoke, bypass the cat, wait a couple minutes, and open the front door.  If smoke billows out and continues to do so, then maybe you have a leak in your stove but you also have a much more serious draft problem.  If smoke doesn't billow out, then chances are very low that the smoke smell is coming from the stove itself, because the smoke is going up the flue.

I could take the glass out of my door and not have smoke coming in the room (well, not until the stove melted, anyway).


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## kf6hap (Mar 19, 2017)

The stove interior is in a negative, so it can't leak smoke out. What happens is the creosote condenses  on the gasket and it's smell creeps sideways against the chimney draw. The chimney draw is not strong enough to overcome the lateral gasket "creep" or capillary action. At some critical point, the chimney overcomes this and the problem vanishes. This problem is long standing and a phone call to BKVP will get this resolved once and for all.  Be assured, this problem CAN be resolved. Meanwhile check for suction leaks with an incense stick at the flue to stove joint, ceiling joint and all other joints. Suspect all joints. A very small leak can spoil the flue stack draw. The problem , I believe, is insufficient draw. I also suspect your chimney system is probably very close to defeating this problem and a small tweak of some kind will resolve this problem.

Anybody else agrees/disagrees please chime in.


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## rdust (Mar 19, 2017)

How is the pipe connected to the stove collar?  I had a bad connection here on my Princess and had the occasional smoke smell when dialed down low.  After getting that connection sealed properly all my issues when away.


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## rdust (Mar 19, 2017)

Calentarse said:


> I live with it because it's a phenomenal stove and I don't feel like anything else fits my house in fit and function like this stove.





Calentarse said:


> it's difficult for me to make a case for how amazing the BK is...nothing is worth the incessant battle of a smoke smell.  Not burn times, not efficiency, not beauty, nothing.


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## Calentarse (Mar 19, 2017)

kf6hap said:


> What is your total stack height now? What is the flue diameter?


Total stack now is 17' 6" flue


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## Calentarse (Mar 19, 2017)

kf6hap said:


> The stove interior is in a negative, so it can't leak smoke out. What happens is the creosote condenses  on the gasket and it's smell creeps sideways against the chimney draw. The chimney draw is not strong enough to overcome the lateral gasket "creep" or capillary action. At some critical point, the chimney overcomes this and the problem vanishes. This problem is long standing and a phone call to BKVP will get this resolved once and for all.  Be assured, this problem CAN be resolved. Meanwhile check for suction leaks with an incense stick at the flue to stove joint, ceiling joint and all other joints. Suspect all joints. A very small leak can spoil the flue stack draw. The problem , I believe, is insufficient draw. I also suspect your chimney system is probably very close to defeating this problem and a small tweak of some kind will resolve this problem.
> 
> Anybody else agrees/disagrees please chime in.


Very interesting explanation.  Chris and I spoke for quite some time while the stove was under warranty.  He went above and beyond to help me.  I'd be very surprised if anything can be done to fix this outside of the glass gasket.  I have added height, replaced single for double wall within the house, replaced the gasket several time, tested everything there is to test, etc.

I can tell you that I get spoke spillage on hot reloads, and my gasket definitely gets discolored.  The one my stove guy put in is a very soft, white gasket.  Almost like a super thick baby's blanket.  I think it is better than what BK sent me, just based on my experience comparing smoke smell with the two.  He suspected that the smell was creeping behind the gasket and really took his time getting that thing perfect when he put it in.  What should I do?

My joints are all sealed up tight.  I paid him to come in and replace single wall with brand new double, and he checked all that afterwards when we fired it up.


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## Calentarse (Mar 19, 2017)

rdust said:


> How is the pipe connected to the stove collar?  I had a bad connection here on my Princess and had the occasional smoke smell when dialed down low.  After getting that connection sealed properly all my issues when away.


If the stove collar is male, the pipe is female.  It comes down over it a couple inches.  Does that make sense?  I never get any smell around that area - never have, nor do I get any pulling on a flame when I test for leaking.


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## Calentarse (Mar 19, 2017)

rdust said:


>


I know it's conflicting, that's because it is.  Awesome stove, with truly amazing technology.  But my 17' stack with 2 45s just doesn't cut it...and IMO, it should.  My house looks ridiculous with a towering chimney sticking out the top yet I still smell smoke inside. How much draft does it need?!

Looking from the outside in on my experience, it's difficult for him to buy one.  Since others have had my experience, he feels like the same may happen to him because he too has a minimum chimney height.  My in-laws just bought a Hearthstone that is non-cat.  It never smells like smoke in their house, even on hot reloads and their chimney is 17' with a 90 degree bend!  Now, it's in a chase but still may be a better option for those short stakers who don't want to risk smelling smoke (understanding few stoves compare to Blaze King in burn times).

I'm in this same conundrum as my brother if I ever move- love the stove but I don't know I'd buy it again.  I choose not to use it in the spring because the smell gets bad enough that I'd just rather run the heat pump.  I don't know if I ever moved and needed to get another one if I'd be able to do so (unless I had a taller chimney).  If I had a taller chimney or same height without bends, all bets would be off and I'd buy another one in an instant.  It's just that none of the other wonderful qualities matter when you run the risk of smelling smoke.  The only advice I have for him with a 16' chimney is to weigh the risk!


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## kf6hap (Mar 19, 2017)

Perhaps an exterior flue joint is leaking? High temp RTV can be applied to the outside. I like using an incense stick as I think it is more revealing and way easier to use. Back in the day, I used to use sulfur candles (incense stick like) to detect ammonia leaks. Dim the lights and use an LED flashlight to look through the smoke.  Cost is very low. Make leak checks only  when the flue is very hot as the draw will be very strong making leakage way easier to locate.

Something small is getting overlooked.



In threads past it was stated a continuous bead of RTV had to be used under the gasket as opposed to discreet blobs to attenuate the "smoke smell". How true this, I don't know. I did it and it helped a lot.  17+  feet should get it.


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## kf6hap (Mar 19, 2017)

The stove does not have to be in warranty to talk with Chris or any other of the techs. BK is first rate.


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## rdust (Mar 19, 2017)

Calentarse said:


> If the stove collar is male, the pipe is female.  It comes down over it a couple inches.  Does that make sense?  I never get any smell around that area - never have, nor do I get any pulling on a flame when I test for leaking.



Worth a quick look, this is how I "fixed" mine.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748


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## Woody Stover (Mar 20, 2017)

kf6hap said:


> creosote condenses  on the gasket and it's smell creeps sideways against the chimney draw. The chimney draw is not strong enough to overcome the lateral gasket "creep" or capillary action.


It sounds like in low-draft situations, he can smell smoke in the room. For the 'stinky dog butt' theory to hold, I would think you could only smell anything if your nose was right on the dog's butt, not across the room.


Calentarse said:


> Has anyone isolated the issue to the glass gasket by regasketing the glass?
> My brother has a 2040 that needs a rebuild and is considering the Ashford.  He's leery because he too can only add about 16' of chimney and knows of my problems.  My dad has a woodstock and doesn't suffer from these issues (he also has 26 ft. of stack) so it's difficult for me to make a case for how amazing the BK is...nothing is worth the incessant battle of a smoke smell.  Not burn times, not efficiency, not beauty, nothing.


For sure, I'd try the glass gasket if that seems to be where the smoke is coming from. If that doesn't work, offer to sell the BK to your brother...if he can install the stack with no bends. If he can get another foot or two of chimney on the top, so much the better. It will probably work (not sure if the 30 is worse than the 30.1, but both have had odor problems IIRC.) Better yet, sell it to some sucker you don't know, that hasn't done his homework.  Seriously, I would probably ask a potential buyer what their chimney setup would be, and tell them they really need to adhere to the installation instructions. You could sell the dog's butt for 1/3 off, and for that money still get a new Ws Ideal or Absolute, which I'm pretty sure _would_ work on your stack. Me, I'm not willing to put up with any smoke smell so I'd be making a move, if I determined that something else would meet my heating needs. When dogs start following me around because I smell like their barbecue-chef owner who gives them meat treats, that's where I draw the line. 
BTW, what Ws stove does your dad have?


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## Highbeam (Mar 20, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> It sounds like in low-draft situations, he can smell smoke in the room. For the 'stinky dog butt' theory to hold, I would think you could only smell anything if your nose was right on the dog's butt, not across the room.



No, you misunderstand the theory. The stink of a dogs butt does indeed become airborn but it's not actual farts. We've all sat next to that bum on the bus. The stink can ooze quite a distance.


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## Woody Stover (Mar 20, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> We've all sat next to that bum on the bus. The stink can ooze quite a distance.


Well, the bum and his clothes have a lot more surface area than the surface of the stove's door gasket, and the bum hasn't got a chimney connected, creating negative interior pressure to reel in malodorous emissions.


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## Calentarse (Mar 20, 2017)

Woody Stover said:


> It sounds like in low-draft situations, he can smell smoke in the room. For the 'stinky dog butt' theory to hold, I would think you could only smell anything if your nose was right on the dog's butt, not across the room.
> For sure, I'd try the glass gasket if that seems to be where the smoke is coming from. If that doesn't work, offer to sell the BK to your brother...if he can install the stack with no bends. If he can get another foot or two of chimney on the top, so much the better. It will probably work (not sure if the 30 is worse than the 30.1, but both have had odor problems IIRC.) Better yet, sell it to some sucker you don't know, that hasn't done his homework.  Seriously, I would probably ask a potential buyer what their chimney setup would be, and tell them they really need to adhere to the installation instructions. You could sell the dog's butt for 1/3 off, and for that money still get a new Ws Ideal or Absolute, which I'm pretty sure _would_ work on your stack. Me, I'm not willing to put up with any smoke smell so I'd be making a move, if I determined that something else would meet my heating needs. When dogs start following me around because I smell like their barbecue-chef owner who gives them meat treats, that's where I draw the line.
> BTW, what Ws stove does your dad have?


You make good points.  My brother is currently suffering with the VC and is only price shopping.  He's feeling the pain, for sure.  My dad has a Progress Hybrid.


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## Calentarse (Mar 20, 2017)

rdust said:


> Worth a quick look, this is how I "fixed" mine.  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ead-everything-bk.155890/page-80#post-2143748


This is very interesting.  I wonder what my stove guy would say about it.  You have peaked my curiosity though because my pipe is also duravent.


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## rdust (Mar 20, 2017)

Calentarse said:


> This is very interesting.  I wonder what my stove guy would say about it.  You have peaked my curiosity though because my pipe is also duravent.



Another benifit is you can secure the adapter to the stove with screws then screw the pipe to the adapter.


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## kf6hap (Mar 21, 2017)

If the flue-to-stove fitting is leaking you will _not_ smell any smoke at that point because it is in a negative. The stove's firebox is not in a strong enough negative to overcome the creosote lateral creep. A very small leak at that joint (or any joint) will "spoil" or greatly reduce the total draw resulting in the "smoke smell" effect.

At any point in the burn, can you extinguish the flames by closing the thermostat?


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## moresnow (Mar 21, 2017)

Just a thought. If your brother is motivated. Get you two together. Unplug your stove and hustle it over to his place. Plug it in.  Add far. Grab two cocktails and get scientific. Engage sniffer. Be a good check for him and you.


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## Calentarse (Mar 21, 2017)

kf6hap said:


> If the flue-to-stove fitting is leaking you will _not_ smell any smoke at that point because it is in a negative. The stove's firebox is not in a strong enough negative to overcome the creosote lateral creep. A very small leak at that joint (or any joint) will "spoil" or greatly reduce the total draw resulting in the "smoke smell" effect.
> 
> At any point in the burn, can you extinguish the flames by closing the thermostat?


I can say yes with about 95 percent certainty.  If it's full throttle firebox full of flame and I shut the thermostat, it's take a couple minutes to lose all flame I feel. Otherwise, yes, it'd be pretty quick to snuff completely out and ride like a champ for hours and hours...why?


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## Calentarse (Mar 21, 2017)

moresnow said:


> Just a thought. If your brother is motivated. Get you two together. Unplug your stove and hustle it over to his place. Plug it in.  Add far. Grab two cocktails and get scientific. Engage sniffer. Be a good check for him and you.


There's an idea!


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## kf6hap (Mar 22, 2017)

To verify the stove has no unseen air leaks like from around the ash plug. It looks like you are good.


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## ohiojoe13 (Mar 22, 2017)

Do i have to use the stove adapter or can i attach  my telescoping double wall pipe right to the stove?


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## kf6hap (Mar 22, 2017)

Mine had a gap going all the way around so I stuffed it full of stove rope. It fits tightly and seals.


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## Highbeam (Mar 22, 2017)

ohiojoe13 said:


> Do i have to use the stove adapter or can i attach  my telescoping double wall pipe right to the stove?



On my princess with duravent double wall I had to use an appliance adapter at the stove to make a nice tight seal. Some stoves, like my hearthstone heritage worked superbly without the adapter. You would think that this would be standardized in the industry but no.

Also, be sure to clean off any blobs of weld or weld spatter in the stove collar that would prevent the tapered stove pipe snout from making a nice seal.


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## Calentarse (Mar 26, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> On my princess with duravent double wall I had to use an appliance adapter at the stove to make a nice tight seal. Some stoves, like my hearthstone heritage worked superbly without the adapter. You would think that this would be standardized in the industry but no.
> 
> Also, be sure to clean off any blobs of weld or weld spatter in the stove collar that would prevent the tapered stove pipe snout from making a nice seal.


This would need to be another service call to the wood stove guy.  This is the next step for me in the journey to be smoke smell free!


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