# All Winter Tire Questions/Thoughts Go here...



## Augie (Oct 31, 2013)

So I am switching to my winters today. Dunlop Graspic DS2. Not as good as Blizzaks in the deep snow, but living near a major metro Area I am more concerned about ice/slush than deep snow. But I want something that will handle snow better than the Michelin XIce but still giving me some good handling on the dry. 

This may be the latest I have switched over from Performance All Seasons in memory. 


Here is a great link as to the reason you should have dedicated winter/summer tires. Even if your Summer tires are all seasons. 


http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=23


> The braking comparison measured the tires' ability to provide traction during an ABS-assisted panic stop in a straight line. *A 30-foot difference in stopping distance during a panic stop at 30 mph on a snow-packed road is more than enough to determine whether it's a near miss or an accident!*
> *Conclusion*
> 
> While all-season tires may provide enough wintertime traction for drivers in areas of the country that only receive occasional light snow, Tire Rack feels there isn't a viable alternative to dedicated winter / snow tires if drivers expect to encounter deep or frequent slush, snow or ice.
> ...



Who else is rocking some winter rubber?


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 31, 2013)

For sure way too early for winter tread. But then, I have not used snow tires for about 45 years. Before anyone jumps on this because maybe I don't live in a deep snow area, which I do not, I will point out that I have also lived in one of Michigan's snow belts where our lowest snowfall for any winter was still in excess of 200 inches. We also have lived in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and that speaks for itself. No, I won't be putting snow tires on this year either. However, if I lived in a really hilly or mountainous area, then I'd have not only snow tires but also chains.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 31, 2013)

After years of running all season tires this year I am contemplating buying some tires from a nearby scrap yard and getting some snow tires for my wife's Subaru . . . which will eventually become my Subaru.


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## mithesaint (Nov 1, 2013)

We put Blizzaks on the wife's Fusion.  The standard conti's are terrible in the snow.  Using the snow tires allows for safer winter driving, and also allows us to run the summer tires longer than we would have normally kept them.  Even though we don't get that much snow here compared to others, it's a no brainer, especially when she's transporting my kids all over the place.


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## jharkin (Nov 1, 2013)

Ive always runs snow tires ever since Ive owned a car, usually Blizzaks or Michelin's.... though I hear great things about the Hakka's.

I used to run true summer tires (Goodyear F1) on the Acura and Michelin Pilot Alpin's in the winter, and with that combo I'd be switching this weekend as the summer tires get hard as a rock when it dips into the 40s.  Now I run high perf AS in the summer and MIchelin X-Ice3 in the winter and will be switching sometime around around Thanksgiving.

On the wife's 4WD pilot I just have all season Michelin LT tires as we never need to take it out in a snowstorm but might consider snows on that in the future, especially when we trade in the Acura and I start driving the Pilot more in winter.

In the long run it doesn't cost anything more as you get a couple extra years out of the summer tires.


For everyone who lives in the snowbelt and figures they dont need snow's because they have 4WD, AWD, traction control or just manage to creep up that one big hill in snow by going real slow.... Remember that the largest benefit to snow tires is increased traction for braking and cornering that could save you from an accident.


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## Grisu (Nov 1, 2013)

Although we do get up here a good amount of snow the road crews are really great in clearing the streets. We therefore did not get dedicated winter tires but went with the only all-season tire that performs well in snow: Nokian WR. No changeover necessary twice a year and it has handled all the ice and snow we got so far. However, treadlife is not the best; about 35-40,000 miles which may be the only reason for me to get dedicated winter (probably Hakka's) and summer tires next time.


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## peakbagger (Nov 1, 2013)

Hard to beat Hakkas winter tires, I see car in VT where the Hakkas tires are worth more than the car


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## ewdudley (Nov 1, 2013)

Fresh radials are usually just fine in the winter, but they don't stay fresh for for more than a year usually.  Plus they're using wider and lower profile tires for OEM these days, which puts them at more of a disadvantage.

We have always preferred Hakkas, but the Hankook knock-offs are nearly as good for less money.

I like studs in heavy traffic urban environments where the stop and start areas get glazed by cars skidding to a stop and spinning away, but on the open highway studs rarely offer any advantage.

Cooper, Michelin, Hankook, and others make some great winter tires these days, lots of good choices unlike thirty years ago.  Bilizzak if you just want to throw money at the problem.


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## smithm1979 (Nov 1, 2013)

Check out Goodyear.  They are having a promotion right now,  save $60 on four and another $60 if you put it on a Goodyear credit card (which I'll be applying for when I go to buy my tires).


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## Flatbedford (Nov 1, 2013)

I have run my front drive commuter cars on all season radials for years now. As long as they are pretty fresh I usually have no problems. My commute is on pretty heavily traveled and _usually_ well maintained roads. I think that having a manual transmission, and knowing how to use it, is a huge advantage in winter weather. I probably replace my tires sooner than average, but I feel that at the about the same cost as the deductible on my collision coverage, it is worth it knowing that I will be under control in all weather. 
I am thinking about picking up a set of chains for my Ford Focus as extra insurance. There are light duty chains made for front drive cars, has anybody here ever used them?


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## semipro (Nov 1, 2013)

Flatbedford said:


> There are light duty chains made for front drive cars, has anybody here ever used them?


I've used cables and was very impressed especially in the ice and hard packed snow.


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## jebatty (Nov 2, 2013)

I switched to full winter tires after I rolled my pickup truck on a snowy curve. The impressive traction improvement of winter tires over all-season tires made me a real believer, and I now use them on our two cars (sold the truck). I've switched my wife's car over already and mine will have the switch this week.


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## ewdudley (Nov 2, 2013)

jebatty said:


> I switched to full winter tires after I rolled my pickup truck on a snowy curve.


(Lemme guess, it was a Chevy and you let off of the gas.)

This may seem counter intuitive, but I've always observed that the guys with the best tires roll over more often and the most dramatically.


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## Boog (Nov 2, 2013)

Grew up in Buffalo but living now in NE Ohio.  I run dedicated snows during the winter on a second set of rims.  Currently have Blizzaks on my E150 "Conversion" Van, and Latitude X-Ice on my Highlander.  They are both great with the Blizzaks having the edge in deeper snow and the X-Ice on ice.

I like to tell the story how I pulled into the driveway a few years ago with a then RAV4/X-Ice.  The driveway didn't look "too bad", a little bit icy.  I pulled in at a good speed and stopped "on a dime" as usual about 3" from the garage door.  Opened the door, put one foot out, tried to stand up and went down hard ................ really hard.  I laid there for what seemed like several minutes before I was barely able to get up and slide to the door.  That driveway was solid slippery ice, but you would never have known it driving the car!


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## firefighterjake (Nov 3, 2013)

Anyone ever use General Altimax Arctic tires? I've used other General tires in the past and have liked them . . . not winter tires though. Price point seems good and you can stud them . . . which reminds me . . . do folks prefer studded or unstudded?


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## flyingcow (Nov 3, 2013)

winter tires with studs go on all 3 vehicles soon.


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## Augie (Nov 4, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> I have not used snow tires for about 45 years



You should think about them again, in the last 5-10 years snow tire tech has come a long way. Winter tires are now better than allseasons by a large amount when ambient temps are below 40F. Better on Ice, in slush. there is no reason no to have them at this point. Yes you have to switch wheels twice a year, you usually should rotate your tires twice a year too. I costs a small amount more, but your winter driving is safer, I see no reason not to have them. Once you drive a car with them you will never go back to all seasons in the winter.


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## CTguy9230 (Nov 5, 2013)

theres just no comparing an all season tire to a true snow tire


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## Augie (Nov 5, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Anyone ever use General Altimax Arctic tires?



I have driven on them, they seem good, they have always been on the list of tires to consider, but have found great deals elsewhere. The last couple of winter sets I have picked up were used one season from friends that have gotten new cars and needed different sizes.

As far as my research has shown they are just rebranded Gislaved Nordfrost 3, a little older tech, 3-5 yr old design, but still really good.



Gislaved Nordfrost 3 is a tire out of Norway that always gets some of the best reviews and test results. YOu really cant go wrong with the General Altimax Arctic as a budget choice. Better than ANY all season and pretty close to tires costing 2-3 times as much.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=295897&page=2

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=123

If I lived where I needed Studs, they were allowed, this is the tire I would have


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## ewdudley (Nov 5, 2013)

Augie said:


> Yes you have to switch wheels twice a year, you usually should rotate your tires twice a year too. I costs a small amount more, but your winter driving is safer, I see no reason not to have them.





Augie said:


> The last couple of winter sets I have picked up were used one season from friends that have gotten new cars and needed different sizes.



Need to get your story straight!  First they're just a minor expense, then you're saving a bunch because your friends took a beating on tires they couldn't use anymore.


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## Augie (Nov 5, 2013)

ewdudley said:


> Need to get your story straight! First they're just a minor expense, then you're saving a bunch because your friends took a beating on tires they couldn't use anymore.



I would have winters even if I didn't get the great deals from friends, and I have in the past. If you dont get a great deal they are a minor expense amortized over a few years. One accident avoided and they pay for themselves. The added confidence in the winter is amazing!


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## mithesaint (Nov 5, 2013)

ewdudley said:


> Need to get your story straight!  First they're just a minor expense, then you're saving a bunch because your friends took a beating on tires they couldn't use anymore.



Well, given that you can keep your summer tires a bit longer by using winter tires, yeah, they're a minor expense.  Price of tires vs auto insurance collision deductible.

Who said anything about his friends taking a beating on the tires?  Why assume he didn't pay them a fair price?  Besides...buy ANYTHING new, and try to sell it a year later for a decent price.  Good luck.


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## AddictiveStew (Nov 5, 2013)

I always order winters from tirerack pre-mounted and balanced. Bought a WRX last year and the thing was unstoppable with AWD and snows! My driveway is very steep and it climbs it like nothing.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks for the info Augie.

AddictiveStew . . . any pictures of the T-Rex that we Subbie lovers can drool over?


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## AddictiveStew (Nov 5, 2013)

How's this?


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## maple1 (Nov 5, 2013)

Studded winters here - brand not an issue.

'All seasons' for the rest of the year.

Well-worn winter tires actually make a not-bad summer tire too (as long as there's some tread left). They seem to wear like iron. Or at least the last ones I did that with did.


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## flyingcow (Nov 5, 2013)

So true Maple1


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## velvetfoot (Nov 5, 2013)

Have used studded tires on both cars last several seasons.  Man they are noisy. When current ones wear down in year or two  will maybe go to non studded.  We live on a hill, and sometimes icy.


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## Augie (Nov 6, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Thanks for the info Augie. AddictiveStew . . . any pictures of the T-Rex that we Subbie lovers can drool over?





firefighterjake said:


> any pictures of the T-Rex that we Subbie lovers can drool over?



Ask and you shall receive....
I have a Saab 9-2x Aero or the Saabaru. The 9-2x was a WRX with STI suspension bits.

Here is her nose on a winter drive


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## DuckDog (Nov 8, 2013)

Temps are still getting to the 40* range and are supposed to stay there for the next couple of weeks. Looks like we'll be running our summer tires until the end of Nov beginning of Dec.
Wife has an 2008 Grand Prix. It is currently running Michelin Defenders but will switch out to the Michelin Xi3's at the first hint of snow (or road salt!) Her drive round trip to work is a little bit under 40 miles. 98% of her drive is on main road. I opted for an ice tire over a snow tire as the roads are plowed regularly.  I've run Blizz's and Hakka's in the past and in the conditions we drive I cannot tell the difference between them and the Michelin's. Cost is also very similar.
I drive an 2002 2wd regular cab Ranger. I put a set of Yokahama Geolander i/t G076's on last year. After using them for a season I can say that they are the best winter tires I'v ever had on a light truck.  My daily commute is around 95 miles round trip. They were amazing! Highly reccomend them!

I've been running winter tires on separate rims for whatever car / truck I've had since 1998. I will NEVER be without them!


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## Lumber-Jack (Nov 9, 2013)

maple1 said:


> Well-worn winter tires actually make a not-bad summer tire too (as long as there's some tread left).* They seem to wear like iron. Or at least the last ones I did that with did*.


I have found just the opposite, generally winter tires are made with softer rubber that is suppose to grip better in the cold snow, and the softer rubber wears out faster, especially when the roads don't actually have snow on them, which is often the case around here.
That is the thing that ticks me off about snow tires, the fact that they wear out so fast. We have dedicated rims for my wife's car, one set for summer tires and one set for winters. I just finished installing the winter tires on her car, but in the process I noticed that the newer summer tires I removed now had more tread than the winter tires I was installing. My wife drives about 30 minutes to work over some mountain roads that can get some very bad winter road conditions. I just didn't feel comfortable with those tires so I got a new pair of winters installed on the front (front wheel drive).
It seems like I just replaced those winter tires and now they were worn out already, or at least worn enough they weren't up to snuff for winter driving conditions.
Between winter and summer tires for my wife's car, my truck, my sons little pick up, not to mention replacing regular tires on my motorcycle and my son's motorcycle it seems like every time I turn around I'm buying new tires. I just gave away a little bronco II to my brother's friend, it use to be my running around vehicle, I decided I didn't really need it any more, but most of all it needed new tires and I just didn't feel like forking out any more money for tires.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 9, 2013)

It is crazy how expensive tires are.


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## maple1 (Nov 9, 2013)

The last two sets of tires I bought, I bought used. If you scan Kijiji (or CL) quite often, there's good deals on tires from people who got rid of a vehicle & their new one takes a different size. Or similar situations. This past spring I got a set of studded winters for our Pilot, on rims, with only 1 winter on them, for $200 - and a set of Bridgestone all-seasons for the Civic, not on rims (have 2 sets already) with only one summer on them for $100.


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## Beetle-Kill (Nov 11, 2013)

Since the wife's new Firestone studded Winterforce tires showed up today, thought I'd add them to the mix.
I have run the Winterforce  studded tires year-round on various vehicles. They give you confidence on a front wheel drive car and they wear like an all-season.
Her AWD CR-V should be unstoppable if the situation arises to actually test them.
They have an aggressive tread pattern so,-- good in slush, rain, and deep snow.
The studs are for the snow packed/ ice conditions on the roads, plus I believe they add to the longevity of the tread.
They do have a harder compound than most winter tires, and I only recommend them with studs. (not sure of the durometer rating)
Tire Rack has good pricing, even with shipping.


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## chrisasst (Nov 12, 2013)

Ok, so been searching...
Wife will be driving an hour back in forth to work on back roads. 
What snow tires are good.  Should I go with studded or non studded?
One of my local shops has *Goodyear Ultra Grip Winters* that are non studded I think for $344 for 4 tires (includes installing etc.)
This is the cheapest tire place around but I don't see any studded tires there.

So studded or non studded?  Which should I look at?
Just found this video.. hmmm


http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=7


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## ewdudley (Nov 13, 2013)

chrisasst said:


> Ok, so been searching...
> Wife will be driving an hour back in forth to work on back roads.
> What snow tires are good.  Should I go with studded or non studded?
> One of my local shops has *Goodyear Ultra Grip Winters* that are non studded I think for $344 for 4 tires (includes installing etc.)
> ...



Looking closely at the video it appears to me that they are running the studded vs non-studded simultaneously, which means the non-studded tires have the advantage of running on ice that has been textured by the studded tires.

On frozen lakes we run full race cars and street cars in different races.  The full race cars have very aggressive purpose-built race-studded tires than chew the ice up and give it texture.  When the street cars run (separately after the race cars) there is a mix of cars with non-studded and street-studded tires.  At the start the non-studded can keep up and can even outperform the street-studded on the textured ice.  But as the corners get polished by cars sliding in and spinning on exit the non-studded lose parity in a hurry.

I say the only advantage of studded tires is on smooth/polished ice.  So the question is, where, when, and how often will drivers encounter smooth/polished ice [in central NY]?

One case is in an ice storm, but they are quite rare, and you're simply not going to make speed with or without studs.  If it's so bad that the salting can't keep up the best strategy is creep along trying not to get run into, or just stay off the road.

The other case is high traffic intersections where snow gets packed and polished into ice by all the cars skidding to a stop and spinning away when the light changes.

Since studded tires are noisy, and they suck on dry pavement, and they suck on wet pavement, and they suck in slush, and they suck on salt-slime, all-in-all, having run studded and non-studded for many years, I say [in central NY] you're better off without studs unless you're doing a lot of city driving.

http://cnyira.com/

http://icerace.com/sl.htm


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## festerw (Nov 13, 2013)

ewdudley said:


> Looking closely at the video it appears to me that they are running the studded vs non-studded simultaneously, which means the non-studded tires have the advantage of running on ice that has been textured by the studded tires.
> 
> On frozen lakes we run full race cars and street cars in different races.  The full race cars have very aggressive purpose-built race-studded tires than chew the ice up and give it texture.  When the street cars run (separately after the race cars) there is a mix of cars with non-studded and street-studded tires.  At the start the non-studded can keep up and can even outperform the street-studded on the textured ice.  But as the corners get polished by cars sliding in and spinning on exit the non-studded lose parity in a hurry.
> 
> ...


 
I would agree with this, I've run both and prefer non studded.  I'm due for new tires on the Jeep and I'm going to give the Treadwright Warden tires with their Kedge Grip and see how those work out.  I've used them on my old Dakota without it and liked the way they performed.


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## Augie (Nov 13, 2013)

festerw said:


> I would agree with this, I've run both and prefer non studded. I'm due for new tires on the Jeep and I'm going to give the Treadwright Warden tires with their Kedge Grip and see how those work out. I've used them on my old Dakota without it and liked the way they performed.



Unless you are in Deep snow almost all of the time stud-less are far superior. ANY winter tire will be light years ahead of any All Season. 

Price looks good on those tires, I would have them mounted on some cheap steel wheels so you can swap in the spring back to the current tires.


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## festerw (Nov 13, 2013)

I should clarify I plan on running those all year round, but I do have a set of steel wheels that my current snows are mounted on.  The last set I had I sold the truck with 30K miles on the tires and they were still well over half tread.


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## MDFisherman (Nov 14, 2013)

Bfgoodrich allterrains last tires you will buy!


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## Beetle-Kill (Nov 16, 2013)

ewdudley said:


> I say the only advantage of studded tires is on smooth/polished ice. So the question is, where, when, and how often will drivers encounter smooth/polished ice


So the question goes. Is it better to have it and not need it, or to need it and not have it?
I don't believe a studded tire "sucks" worse on a slushy road than a comparable tire in the same conditions at all. What do they call it- 'Tread Void' or something like it, the ability of a certain tread to expel water/slush to maintain traction, that is critical to me. With my variety of conditions, an aggressive tread and studs works very well. Tire air pressure is an important factor also. Sidewall stiffness will play into this, so you have to factor vehicle weight and tire capacity into the equation.
The true ice racers on Georgetown Lake (my area), run single-digit tire pressures with bead-locks. They don't count.
The snow driving classes for you and I, they run at street pressures in the tires. Those classes only show people that, HEY!!- ice is slippery no matter what tire you have, and that you should slow down, AWD is not the "be all, end all". Lots of variables between a certain vehicles weight and the max. capacity of a certain tire. Contact patch pressure is what I aim for, but it differs between vehicles. Air pressure matters in the winter.
After 20+ years above 8K, I've seen enough. I'll keep my studded tires, thank you. JB


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## flyingcow (Nov 16, 2013)

After reading this thread, I still prefer studded tires. For me, it's the only way to go.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 20, 2013)

Hey guys

A few things I would like to add:

1- Anyone who is serious about snow tires know about Nokian. In a recent Canadian winter tire review, Nokian won against all competition. They make studded and non-studded winter tires. They are expensive but you will get about 40000 miles out of them. They are made in Finland. FYI, all cars must have winter tires in Finland during the winter months.

2 - I live in Quebec. It is mandatory in Quebec to have winter tires from December 15th to March 15th. You MUST have winter tires that are winter approved. No LT tires, no BFGoodrich all terrains, etc etc. They simply don't cut it when it's -20C  outside.

3- As others have mentioned, a winter tire has a much softer rubber compound. This allows for the tire to remain soft during cold periods. Normally all seasons start losing effeiciency at around 3-7 degrees C (when it starts getting cold). Any WINTER tire is better than an ALL SEASON tire in the snow/slush/cold.

4- Studded tires are noisy, that's for sure. I currently have nokian hakkapeliitta 5 on both vehicles. WHile my dry pave traction may be reduced by 8-13% and it is loud, I sure love them when it starts snowing and you're driving on the icepack/ice that forms during the initial 2 inches. I don't plan on driving 100 MPH with winter tires on. Not to mention: 2 subarus + nokian hakkapeliitta 5 = Snowmobiles 

I am very passionate about winter tires and their technology. I learned a long time ago not to be cheap with winter tires: they are what keeps you on the road during the worse road conditions. So I make a budget and buy the "best" that I can. Why would I say "hey, those are $200 less" and buy a lesser quality tire (for example, something made in China) when the $200 in savings is split over 3-4-5 winters??

Andrew


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## festerw (Nov 20, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> 2 - I live in Quebec. It is mandatory in Quebec to have winter tires from December 15th to March 15th. You MUST have winter tires that are winter approved. No LT tires, no BFGoodrich all terrains, etc etc. They simply don't cut it when it's -20C  outside.



Take a look at some truck all terrains next time you walk through a parking lot,  you'll find quite a few now that are rated for severe snow BFG AT's are one of them.  They'll be marked with a mountain snowflake symbol, while they won't be as good as a dedicated snow they'll be much better than a summer tread.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 20, 2013)

That is new! Cool.

It wasn't like that 3 years ago. Personally not a big fan of the AT but lots of people love them. They don't have much choice, more and more places require winter tires. They would lose customers by the masses in snow-prone areas (that require snow tires)


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## festerw (Nov 20, 2013)

There's a little more info about them here
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125


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## Swedishchef (Nov 20, 2013)

Right. But notice the small print:
Alternate tires not bearing the mountain/snowflake symbol which have one or more of the following terms branded in their tire name or tire size are *temporarily acceptable*: Alaska, Arctic,* A/T* or AT Blizzard, Ice, LT, Nordic, Snow (but not mud and snow), Stud, Ultratraction or Winter. Starting December 15, 2014, the Highway Safety Code regulation specifies only tires bearing the *mountain/snowflake symbol* will be considered acceptable winter/snow tires in Quebec

And concerning the BG AT, here  is what it says at the bottom:
NOTE: While most BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO tires meet the industry's severe snow service requirements (and are branded with the mountain/snowflake symbol), selected tires do not. Specific tires/sizes not meeting the industry's severe snow service requirements are identified with a *"Not Rated For Severe Snow"* notation on the Sizes & Pricing, as well as on Specs.


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## firefighterjake (Nov 20, 2013)

After checking with several places -- on line and in stores -- and briefly debating on purchasing some Nokian Nordman4's (made in Russia), I opted to save a bit of change ($70) and go with General Altimax Arctics as they seem pretty well liked . . . and based on my past experiences with General tires.


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## Augie (Nov 20, 2013)

General Altimax Arctics are the Gislaved - Nord*Frost 4. Still a better tire than most even though they are on to the Gislaved - Nord*Frost 5 now. I have used them in Deep snow on a ski trip to the UP of Michigan and they are a confidence inspiring tire.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 21, 2013)

Well, I switched out the summer tires/wheels with the studded winter set last night.  I think it's early, but I was concerned whether the wheels would fit over the discs, etc, so anyway, they're on.  Noisy as hell.


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2013)

velvetfoot said:


> Well, I switched out the summer tires/wheels with the studded winter set last night.  I think it's early, but I was concerned whether the wheels would fit over the discs, etc, so anyway, they're on.  Noisy as hell.


 
I did the same thing the night before on our car - wife was starting to get antsy with flurries now & again. Much to my chagrin, there appears to be less tread on the winters than what I remember there being when I took them off in the spring. Some tread must have evaporated over summer or something - but now I've got to start looking for new winters again, these will likely not make it until spring. Darn.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 21, 2013)

I know, it's a pain.  On the one hand new is expensive, but used takes a long time and everybody else seems to make better deals than I do.  If you wait too long, they may run out of inventory.


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## EJL923 (Nov 22, 2013)

We went with the blizzaks on my wifes civic.  Previously, i only had experience with studded tires and i can honestly say i am more than impressed with the studless.  I will add we live on a steep 200 foot driveway.  Last year i tried going up and down the driveway to try them out with no slips.  The one caveat i would add is i think studded vs studless could be vehicle specific.  Someone with more of a commuter car or luxury car would want the quiet ride.  Also add in the way certain vehicles handle.  I've always noticed studded being very hard tires and actually a little slippery in certian conditions not snow while the studless have to be soft to make up for the lack of studs and grip the ice.  On my xterra with a very tight suspension, i would get the studless for the softer tire to loosen it up a little.


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

I have dedicated winter tires and wheels for my Subaru Outback, they go on around Halloween and come off around Memorial Day.  I only plan to get 2 years or maybe 3 seasons out of them with how much driving I do, but they make an immense difference.  My house gets between 350 and 400 inches of snow per winter, we've had consistent snow cover in my yard since October 25, and the roads in my neighborhood are crudely plowed and untreated.  I assume my particular street, like my driveway, will be covered in packed snow and ice until sometime in April.  

So far I have had 5 people try to make it to my house in 4wd or AWD vehicles without snow tires, and 3 simply could not make it, one made it after putting their chains on.  Snow tires and smart, conservative driving make a huge difference.


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## flyingcow (Nov 22, 2013)

BCC_Burner said:


> I have dedicated winter tires and wheels for my Subaru Outback, they go on around Halloween and come off around Memorial Day.  I only plan to get 2 years or maybe 3 seasons out of them with how much driving I do, but they make an immense difference.  My house gets between 350 and 400 inches of snow per winter, we've had consistent snow cover in my yard since October 25, and the roads in my neighborhood are crudely plowed and untreated.  I assume my particular street, like my driveway, will be covered in packed snow and ice until sometime in April.
> 
> So far I have had 5 people try to make it to my house in 4wd or AWD vehicles without snow tires, and 3 simply could not make it, one made it after putting their chains on.  Snow tires and smart, conservative driving make a huge difference.


Loc:
Wasatch Front: 78  where is this?


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## flyingcow (Nov 22, 2013)

never mind just figured out your link


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

I live up in one of the canyons above Salt Lake City, UT.  It's sort of like living in a snow globe.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 23, 2013)

lol


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## firefighterjake (Nov 23, 2013)

Put the General Altimax Arctics on my wife's car today. Opted for no studs . . . waffled back and forth on that before deciding to go without studs and sacrifice some grip on ice to more grip on bare tar as it seems as though the State does a pretty good job of clearing roads these days.


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## JustWood (Nov 24, 2013)

Started running this combo on my tri-axles this year. Diggin mudders!
Wished they made the Blizzard Track (tire on right) for passenger vehicles. They ROCK in snow and mud !


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## Flatbedford (Nov 25, 2013)

So you run one of each? Interesting.


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## DuckDog (Nov 25, 2013)

Forcast is calling for 30+cm (12") of snow Tues night - Wednesday evening.  Spent yesterday afternoon in the garage swapping tires. 

Only got one surprise.  Found this on the driverside fronf of my wifes GP.




Me: Has your car been making any weird noises when you go over bumps or up an off the road into a parking lot?
Her: Yes, kind or a snapping / creaking sound.
Me: You gotta tell me that stuff.......

It's in the shop now getting it's stabilizer bar reattached.......


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## JustWood (Nov 25, 2013)

Flatbedford said:


> So you run one of each? Interesting.


Inside tire is siped about 1/3 in. The shoulders are broke up about half way in. After that it turns into a solid shoulder. Gets better milage with the solid shoulder and less cupping. The outside is just a pure aggressive diggin' tread .
I put this combo on in late fall and run till spring. If they haven't seen much wear I'll remove them and run again following winter and put summers on. If they are 40%+ wore I'll run them out through the summer.
We get pounded with snow here most winters and backing into unplowed drives making a delivery sucks without the very best rubber. Chains are hanging on the truck after November 1 . With this tire combo I haven't had to put them on much.


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## velvetfoot (Nov 26, 2013)

The snows got a light workout on the way in to work today.  Everybody should have them, arrrggghh.
NY would just as soon just dump globs of salt and get the roads black, disintegrating everyone's car in the process.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 26, 2013)

velvetfoot said:


> The snows got a light workout on the way in to work today.  Everybody should have them, arrrggghh.
> *NY would just as just dump globs of salt and get the roads black, disintegrating everyone's car in the process*.



That is what they do in Quebec AND we need winter tires


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## woodsman23 (Nov 26, 2013)

firestone winterforce are the best  and cheap


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## velvetfoot (Nov 26, 2013)

I just put the Hakkas on my wife's car and they're looking like there's only one season left on 'em.  I don't think I got too many miles out of them.


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## loadstarken (Nov 27, 2013)

I just bought a set of used OEM wheels and a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV tires for the wifes '05 Volvo XC70.

We have many trips to make over the pass this winter/holiday season and figured it'd be a good purchase.  

I looked all over locally and the internet for the best price and then remembered that a friend of a friend owns a tire shop so I called him up and bought them from him.   

I'll report back how they do.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 27, 2013)

loadstarken said:


> I just bought a set of used OEM wheels and a set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV tires for the wifes '05 Volvo XC70.
> 
> We have many trips to make over the pass this winter/holiday season and figured it'd be a good purchase.
> 
> ...


 
Now you're talking! you're going to love the tires....


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