# blown head gasket on a Duramax???



## infinitymike

Anyone have any experience with a blown head gasket on a '04 Duramax Diesel?

My truck has been saying "low coolant level" on the dash display since the summer.
I added about a gallon in the mid summer and the display never went out.
I thought I had to do something with pressing the pedals in a certain sequence to clear the code but couldn't find anything in the manual.
So I kept driving like that.
Even though its been real cold for a while now, I just had some problems with the heat on Tuesday and today.

The truck had been running close to an hour and it was still blowing freezing air.
But then what happens is all of a sudden the temp gauge jumps from being bottomed out to 210* and whamo hot air comes blasting out.
What did happen ONLY on Tuesday was I shut it down to go into a lumber yard and a huge amount of liquid came pouring out in front of the passenger front tire.

I first thought it might be a thermostat but my mechanic says its probably the beginning of a head gasket issue.
We opened the overflow container and a lot of air came out and it was low on coolant. We added a gallon and I drove away. About ten minutes later the heat came on.
When I got to my destination I left it running and checked the radiator hose. It was rock hard.

I went back to him today and the hose was rock hard again. He opened the overflow container again and it was very pressurized.
He tested it with a kit that you pour a liquid into two separate tubes that gets connected by a rubber fitting and then stick it in the overflow container. If there is exhaust fumes in the system it will turn yellow for gasoline and green for diesel.

But nothing happened.
He still feels that there might be a small pin hole in the head gasket and what is happening is that the coolant system is getting pressurized. Unlike a gasoline engine that will start to burn it and blow white smoke a diesel has such high compression that it pressurizes the system and it will blow out the overflow container.

We will just keep an eye on it for now,because a head gasket job could cost $4-5 thousand.


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## semipro

Sounds like you have air trapped in the cooling system.  Some vehicles have specific procedures for purging trapped air from cooling systems.  There may be a small air release (bleed) valve located at a high point somewhere in the cooling system that you need to open when adding coolant.
If it were me I'd try replacing the thermostat and making sure that all air is purged from the cooling system.

Edit: check this http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/general-discussion/156440-coolant-bleeding.html


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## infinitymike

I suggested to my mechanic changing the thermostat and flushing the whole system and he said no, he doesn't think that is the problem and doesn't want to spend my money.


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## semipro

Doesn't sound like a head gasket to me, especially if the the radiator exhaust gas dye test was negative.  
A leaking head gasket will generally build enough pressure that steam and coolant will overflow out of the coolant reservoir.  
I'm sticking with the trapped air diagnosis.  You can easily forgo replacing the thermostat and just add coolant as described in the link I posted above.


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## ironpony

sounds like its time for a Cummins swap.

change thermostat, flush system and as was stated above fill and bleed  correctly. also common for low coolant sensor to go bad.


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## infinitymike

semipro said:


> Doesn't sound like a head gasket to me, especially if the the radiator exhaust gas dye test was negative.
> A leaking head gasket will generally build enough pressure that steam and coolant will overflow out of the coolant reservoir.
> I'm sticking with the trapped air diagnosis.  You can easily forgo replacing the thermostat and just add coolant as described in the link I posted above.



thanks for the edit.
that sounds to easy to bleed the air.  lol


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## infinitymike

ironpony said:


> sounds like its time for a Cummins swap.
> 
> change thermostat, flush system and as was stated above fill and bleed  correctly. also common for low coolant sensor to go bad.



probably will go that route on my own. 
I hear ya on the sensor but it definitely was low and it was low agin today.
Added about 1/2 gallon of water


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## semipro

infinitymike said:


> thanks for the edit.
> that sounds to easy to bleed the air.  lol


I hope it works for you. 
It would be nice to have heat again too.


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## infinitymike

semipro said:


> I hope it works for you.
> It would be nice to have heat again too.


so do I. luckily I do get heat.
It was only tuesday and today and only 1st thing in the morning. otherwise the heat was working just fine the rest of the day.


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## ironpony

check everything over really good, a small leak will be hard to find. also what I have done in the past is, leave the radiator cap on the first click so the sysem wont build pressure and see if you still loose fluid. if you do not I would lean towards a leak as opposed to head gasket. maybe pick up a pressure tester and pressurize the system over night and you might spot the drip, might not evaporate from the engine heat. good luck.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

infinitymike,
I would check out your radiator they are notorious for weeping. and allowing air into system. until then I would try a low pressure radiator cap and bleed the air out.
The serpentine belts can slip and not spin the water pump. idlers are really only good for 60,000 miles or so.


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## infinitymike

There is no real radiator cap per say. 
The cap is on the overflow container. 

I came out this morning and before I started it I checked the upper hose... Rock hard. 

I slowly opened the overflow cap and it bubbled and exploded like a shaken bottle of champagne. Pissed fluid all over driveway. 

The hose was soft but after 10 mins of running it the hose was hard again. Been running for 15 mins and no noticeable heat.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

Are your heater hoses hot?


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## NE WOOD BURNER

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=26996

Some info for you looks to be a nice forum. looks like a very interesting cooling system.


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## burnham

Rock hard radiator hose sounds like a head gasket.


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## higginscl

Its definitely not a head gasket. If its still holding pressure by morning on a cold engine there is more than likely not a leak either. The radiator cap or surge tank cap in your case is set to vent at a set pressure. Get a radiator cap "surge tank cap" and fill the coolant up starting with a cold engine. Once its full leave the cap off and start the truck. Let it warm up with the cap off, you will overflow a little and thats normal. Once the thermostat opens you will have to add more coolant. Do this till the thermostat opens two or three times (youll know when your good cause the coolant level will quit going down when the thermostat opens). To help speed up the process and help purge the air out you can rev the engine to 1200 rpm or so. This will also help fill up the heater core.


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## higginscl

I forgot to mention that while you are initially cold filling it squeeze the upper and lower hoses to help burp some of the air out. It sounds like you have a bad air lock mixed with a bad cap. Once you get it filled properly then and only then can you check for a leak.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

I was told that the duramax has two thermostats also the forum above describes the two of them and their functions. Also if at anytime the coolant was filled with green antifreeze if it had red/pink in it it can cause blockages and corrision in heater cores and aluminum pipes. in the past you could run one or the other but mixing the two was a no no.


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## Highbeam

This is not a small block chevy. It is a VERY expensive and sophisticated engine. Get to a real diesel mechanic or a good dealer and spend the relatively small amount of money to dignose your problem. When things break on a diesel you are looking at several thousand dollars for each component. Stop guessing, you are further risking damage.


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## greg13

Ok Lets approach this logically.

Are you actually loosing antifreeze? If not than the gasket is not blown. Once you shut the truck down the cooling system still has pressure, that would push into the cylinder through the gasket.

Has a pressure test been done on the cooling system? If it holds pressure than the gasket is OK. I would sooner think that it is air bound or you still have a thermostat problem from the conditions you describe. You could try pressurizing the system 5-10 psi and loosen the HIGHEST hose clamp on the motor and slide a pick between the hose & fitting (usually a heater hose) and see if you have any air there, that is not the best way to bleed the air, but usually works.

As Highbeam said, these are not small block motors, find someone that knows them. Mistakes get expensive FAST


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Are your heater hoses hot?


Yes. I do get heat. It was just twice last week that I had a problem getting heat.


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=26996
> 
> Some info for you looks to be a nice forum. looks like a very interesting cooling system.




Thanks. I will read through that thread. 
I actually joined the dieselplace.com a year or two ago for an electrical issue. 

I copied and posted over there and the Funny thing is, everyone there immediately said its a blown head gasket. 
No one thinks its air or a thermostat.


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> I was told that the duramax has two thermostats also the forum above describes the two of them and their functions. Also if at anytime the coolant was filled with green antifreeze if it had red/pink in it it can cause blockages and corrision in heater cores and aluminum pipes. in the past you could run one or the other but mixing the two was a no no.



Yikes. Over the summer when the low coolant warning appeared I had some green coolant laying around. About a half gallon and I added it. 

I think I'm going to flush the whole system and see what happens. 

I also read to bleed the system if any air you need to losses a thermostat bolt and allow any air out.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

I would back flush the whole system. Look into the second thermostat. As I remember from what I quickly read that it can cause similar situations. Ill check with my Bro when he returns from vacation he is a duramax guy. I got more experience with the 5.7,6.2, and 6.5l gm 6.9,7.3 ford and my favorite the cummins.
My 250,000 mile 5.3l gas runs perfect with a blown head gasket I can see it leak but it keeps on running. problem started with a bad plastic tank to core seal on the radiator kids overheated it. they filled with wrong antifreeze and whala I get silicone sludge throughout the whole engine blocked heater core.
How many miles you got on it?
Have you put any aftermarket hot rod goodies on it?

I have bought many a vehicle diagnosed incorrectly for a song. Not saying its not a head gasket, but many times its not.

picked up a Cherokee a few years back for 400 put an electric fan in and flushed system and I was in business.


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## infinitymike

greg13 said:


> Ok Lets approach this logically.
> 
> Are you actually loosing antifreeze? If not than the gasket is not blown. Once you shut the truck down the cooling system still has pressure, that would push into the cylinder through the gasket.
> 
> Has a pressure test been done on the cooling system? If it holds pressure than the gasket is OK. I would sooner think that it is air bound or you still have a thermostat problem from the conditions you describe. You could try pressurizing the system 5-10 psi and loosen the HIGHEST hose clamp on the motor and slide a pick between the hose & fitting (usually a heater hose) and see if you have any air there, that is not the best way to bleed the air, but usually works.
> 
> As Highbeam said, these are not small block motors, find someone that knows them. Mistakes get expensive FAST



I have to be losing coolant, because the overflow container is full when I fill it and then low the next day. There are no signs of any leaks in the driveway or when ever I park it.
I always back into spots when I park it so I always approach it from the front end and have never seen anything on the ground.
So the fluid is going somewhere. But I dont see any white smoke from the tail pipe either.

My mechanic has only done an exhaust gas coolant leak test and it came back negative to any exhaust gases in the coolant. But he said  that doesn't always prove it one way or the the other. Isn't that just great.
We haven't done any other testing.


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> I would back flush the whole system. Look into the second thermostat. As I remember from what I quickly read that it can cause similar situations. Ill check with my Bro when he returns from vacation he is a duramax guy. I got more experience with the 5.7,6.2, and 6.5l gm 6.9,7.3 ford and my favorite the cummins.
> My 250,000 mile 5.3l gas runs perfect with a blown head gasket I can see it leak but it keeps on running. problem started with a bad plastic tank to core seal on the radiator kids overheated it. they filled with wrong antifreeze and whala I get silicone sludge throughout the whole engine blocked heater core.
> How many miles you got on it?
> Have you put any aftermarket hot rod goodies on it?
> 
> I have bought many a vehicle diagnosed incorrectly for a song. Not saying its not a head gasket, but many times its not.
> 
> picked up a Cherokee a few years back for 400 put an electric fan in and flushed system and I was in business.



I have  a Banks PDA tuner with a Banks intercooler (radiator), Banks ram air and SS exhaust, plus a 6" suspension  lift with rear air bags.
Its got only 115k.


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## shmodaddy

Look around on this site also  http://www.duramaxforum.com they are lot of help there and I read on there daily.  I am on there with the same screen name.  You may have some air trapped as others have said.  When look at the front of the engine valley and locate the thermostats housing there is a bolt on the housing that you take out to let air out and help bleed the system as you refill the coolant.  Start with the cheap fixes.  Change your thermostats out and the coolant.  Flush if you can.  If your truck has dexcool in it (the red stuff ). Put that back in mixing red/green gets nasty real quick.  The truck should have the red.  Change your coolant overflow tank cap.  On duramaxes very seldom will you burn coolant or get water in the oil with a blown head gasket.  Most times you will get the syptoms you have. Blowing coolant, intermittent heat,and the such.  Lb7 engines are notorious for injector,and head gasket failures poor GM design on both.  Try taking your truck and giving it a good run, blow some carbon out, come home and park her.  Before you leave in the morning see if the upper radiator hose is still hard.  IF it is get the check book out or trade her in.


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## shmodaddy

Also is that 115k on stock injectors and head gaskets?


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## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> Also is that 115k on stock injectors and head gaskets?


Yes


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## shmodaddy

That's not too bad for a lb7 engine especially for the injectors, although we would like to see more miles before H/G issues.  Refinements were made on the lly injectors and the lbz including a head gasket design change on the lbz engine.


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## Corey

Haven't read every reply, so maybe already mentioned, but it could be as simple as a loose or cracked hose leading to the coolant overflow reservoir or faulty radiator cap.  The engine will expel coolant into the overflow tank when it warms up.  When it cools down, it 'should' pull coolant back into the engine.  If the hose to the overflow tank is cracked or loose, the engine will just pull air back in.  A couple cycles of this and the engine is low on coolant.

Also the radiator cap is designed to build pressure up to a certain level (ie 10, 12, 15 psi)  but it has a second valve which opens under vacuum to allow the engine to siphon coolant back in.  If that valve is stuck, full of crud or otherwise inoperable, you get the same condition as above... engine cant pull coolant back in as it cools down and will eventually run low.


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## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> That's not too bad for a lb7 engine especially for the injectors, although we would like to see more miles before H/G issues.  Refinements were made on the lly injectors and the lbz including a head gasket design change on the lbz engine.



I have a 2004.5 model and it has a LLY engine.


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## infinitymike

Corey said:


> Haven't read every reply, so maybe already mentioned, but it could be as simple as a loose or cracked hose leading to the coolant overflow reservoir or faulty radiator cap.  The engine will expel coolant into the overflow tank when it warms up.  When it cools down, it 'should' pull coolant back into the engine.  If the hose to the overflow tank is cracked or loose, the engine will just pull air back in.  A couple cycles of this and the engine is low on coolant.
> 
> Also the radiator cap is designed to build pressure up to a certain level (ie 10, 12, 15 psi)  but it has a second valve which opens under vacuum to allow the engine to siphon coolant back in.  If that valve is stuck, full of crud or otherwise inoperable, you get the same condition as above... engine cant pull coolant back in as it cools down and will eventually run low.



But where do the coolant go? If it cools down and doesn't pull it back in then wouldn't it still be in the overflow container?


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## mustash29

I'm a long time GM guy, 12+ year member of ZR2.com, ZR2USA, founding member of the now defunct NEZR2 off road club, etc.

91 GMC Sonoma - put a new motor in at 155K, sold to a buddy at 180K and he ran it to 230K before it was stolen & wrecked.
01 S-10 ZR2 - 92 K on her, don't drive it much.
03 Blazer ZR2 - 84 K on her, my daily driver, also has a 7'4" Fisher Homesteader (poly blade) plow.
06 Duramax with LBZ, just got her a little over a year ago.

GM had some serious issues with that pink Dex-cool crap in the late 90's and early 2000's.  It is ok in a clean, closed system but it HATES air and ANY sort of contamination.  A simple leaky radiator cap can result in a lot of air, dust, dirt, pollen, etc getting sucked into the cooling system which will turn into thick brown sludge.  The sludge clogs heater cores, small coolant passages, radiators, etc.

Dex-cool also EATS (head and intake manifold) gaskets in those era motors.

Mixing green coolant with the pink Dex-cool is a HUGE no-no.  IMO with a diesel, you need to have a professional chemical flush / backflush done.  If it was a SBC 5.7 like most folks are familair with, you could drain it, refill with water and a double dose of Prestone flush chemical, run untill hot, drain, do it a 2nd time, then flush and backflush everything with garden hose untill everything runs clear.  Considering the complexity of the D-max cooling system (and even the newer generation LS gas motors) I would have a reputable shop do it.

I know a lot of guys who have swapped LS motors into their S-10's or put them into custom 4x4 rock buggies.  They can be a royal PITA to get the coolant system vented properly.

I do not have that much experience with the diesel motors, I actually learned a lot reading this thread, but the coolant issues are all over the internet forums.  When my Blazer lower intake manifold began leaking, it went straight to the dealer, got a chemical flush, upper & lower intake manifold gaskets replaced and refilled with green "universal" low toxic coolant.  I have not had any problems in 2 years now.

When my S-10 was new & under warranty, I had a habit of taking the radiator cap off and checking the coolant level every 5K when I changed the oil.  I noticed the brown sludge forming.  The dealer informed me to leave the damn radiator cap alone and check the levels via the overflow / recovery bottle.  I was letting air into the system unknowingly and causing the sludge formation.  They also found the radiator cap to be leaking slightly and replaced it.  No further issues, but it needs the intake gaskets replaced now.  It developed a small external leak from the left rear head to intake manifold joint, so I have not been driving it untill I have the oppertunity to get it replaced.

For what it's worth, the service manager who did all the warranty work on my S-10, also did the Blazer, and also will do anything the D-max needs.  It's funny, she used to drag race in her earlier years.  Finding a woman service manager who is a life long gear head is a welcome thing.


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## shmodaddy

infinitymike said:


> But where do the coolant go? If it cools down and doesn't pull it back in then wouldn't it still be in the overflow container?



Ok I'm assuming you are filling the tank to the "cold" full line before starting. (Honestly not trying to be a smarty)Try squezzing the upper radiator hose while filling to help getting the air out like mentioned before.  Start the truck with the cap off and moniter the coolent level.  If it drops add more accordingly.  It may require more once the thermos start to open.


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## shmodaddy

Once you are SURE you don't have any air stuck in your system, watch closely for any air bubbles coming to the tank.  Sure sign of HG.  Check the level daily and adjust accordingly.  Once full if you start blowing coolent out of the tank your screwed.


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## Highbeam

shmodaddy said:


> Lb7 engines are notorious for injector,and head gasket failures poor GM design on both.


 
Pretty sure Isuzu designed the duramax.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

I would also check the EGR cooler and water pump weep hole. EGR delete package or SS replacement maybe an upgrade.

I am not up on the banks tuner but if it does adjust timing for power this will definitely effect your cylinder pressures. If you can tune your tuner back to stock until your problem is corrected fully.

I would definitely do a compression check(dry and wet)

Back in the day we could send out oil samples for evaluation also. Cat dealers had a lab back then. The oil samples where checked for coolant, fuel and metals. It was helpful for evaluation of wear on the high mileage and hours that are common place on commercial vehicles and equipment.

Rudolf would be amazed with what they are doing with his diesels today!

the banks radiator you have looks awesome! the advertising states it has cast tanks but does not state the material. is it cast iron or aluminum?

yes, the duramax is an Isuzu design built to a price point for light to medium duty trucks.


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## Corey

infinitymike said:


> But where do the coolant go? If it cools down and doesn't pull it back in then wouldn't it still be in the overflow container?



Generally, it should, though if the engine expels more coolant than the overflow can hold, then it may leak out onto the ground.  If you are driving while this happens, the coolant may just drip out on the road as you drive and you won't necessarily notice a puddle.  Also, the next time the engine warms up, it expels air which can also slosh some coolant out of the overflow tank.  So after a few times, the overflow tank may appear normal.

One thing to do is to observe the overflow tank.  It should be at some level when the engine is cold.  Mark that level carefully and warm the engine up to full operating temp.  The level should rise by some notable amount.  Then when the engine cools, it should draw the original level down again.  Also with the engine running, if you see any evidence of bubbles forming inside the overflow tank, at the siphon hose, that could mean a head gasket leak allowing combustion gas into the coolant system.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

"Ok, this may not be your answer but I ran across this and it may help someone.
Cold start, both t-stats closed, coolant pumps to oil filter-flywheel houseing cross over-block-heads-EGR and heater core @ 26GPM. Engines warms to 180* first stage of the primary t-stat allowing some flow to the radiator. At 185* secondary t-stat starts to open flowing more to the radiator. In here @ arond 132* the turbo starts recieveing coolant through a thermo controlled circuit by-pass. At 203* the primary stat is full open. At 212* the seconday stat is full open, all coolant is through radiator and flow is near 80 GPM. Now this is for the LLY engine. bob............." quote from diesel page

So IMHO If you push a cooling system to 212 or boiling point of water make sure your antifreeze is mixed correctly for boiling protection also. because if a system can introduce air, it can also expel vapor to the atmosphere far be it a slower rate than it can bring in air(depending on location of air leak). so it is possible for a component to expand when hot and then contract when cold and hold the residual vapor pressure till morning. this was common on plastic tank and aluminum core radiators.


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## fbelec

what i have to say is not anything to do with a d max. but we had a similar problem in my wifes sienna with rear heat. took it to three dealers one said nothing wrong same guy a week later replaced the rear heater core. same problem so we go to dealer 2 says the rear controller is no good so he replaced that. week later it's back in the shop now he says the front controller is no good so that good replaced. off to dealer 3 at this time we lost heat in front and back. he said it was low on fluid. then a day later lose the heat in back again. now i'm thinking like a plumber and said to my self this has to be air bound. with no way to burp it i took it to a very steep hill nose up pulled the rad cap rev it a few times i check the rad it's low i fill and rev it low again filled and that was that.

might want to try a very steep hill or a very tall floor jack when you flush and go to refill. hope that works for you. if not might be time for a new truck. 
also i haven't read anything here but how is your oil? does it have any milky stuff on the stick?


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## shmodaddy

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> "Ok, this may not be your answer but I ran across this and it may help someone.
> Cold start, both t-stats closed, coolant pumps to oil filter-flywheel houseing cross over-block-heads-EGR and heater core @ 26GPM. Engines warms to 180* first stage of the primary t-stat allowing some flow to the radiator. At 185* secondary t-stat starts to open flowing more to the radiator. In here @ arond 132* the turbo starts recieveing coolant through a thermo controlled circuit by-pass. At 203* the primary stat is full open. At 212* the seconday stat is full open, all coolant is through radiator and flow is near 80 GPM. Now this is for the LLY engine. bob............." quote from diesel page
> 
> So IMHO If you push a cooling system to 212 or boiling point of water make sure your antifreeze is mixed correctly for boiling protection also. because if a system can introduce air, it can also expel vapor to the atmosphere far be it a slower rate than it can bring in air(depending on location of air leak). so it is possible for a component to expand when hot and then contract when cold and hold the residual vapor pressure till morning. this was common on plastic tank and aluminum core radiators.



Would you mind posting a link?  Sounds  like a thread I'd like to read


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## Dustin92

Sounds like my car when the waterpump went bad. I have a 2003 Impala, and at first it just used some coolant- then up to 1/2 gallon a day- no white smoke- no visible leak. Then, It started the heat going cold- at the same time the temp gauge would go up to 260, all within seconds. Pulled over, boiling over, sprayed coolant out. I waited 5 minutes or so and drove home with no issues. Let the air out, refilled the coolant and started noticing a puddle wherever I parked. It would drip all night, even after it had cooled. Was afraid the head gasket had gone (my car has the 3.4 engine, which is known for head gasket issues), even appeared to have coolant leaking from the side of the engine. Since it was near the water pump, we decided to replace the water pump before spending ~$1000+ on a head gasket. $20 and an hour later no more leak- I haven't added a drop in at least 3 months, and the car hasn't even though about overheating.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=26996&page=2

here is the link for shomodady its on page 2 of the first link I sent.

My experience is with a family owned Jobber truck/car shop so I have seen many different brands of diesels over the years from vw,Peugeot,yanmar,cat,Detroit,cummins, and more than my share of international engines.

I read mainly technical articles trade books and yes service manuals for entertainment. So I am/was the guy that gets called to diagnose the undiagnosable. usually after many hands have touched it. always start with the basics then you evaluate your basic data to come to an educated conclusion.

The only ones who get paid for a misdiagnosis  are doctors! 

my all time favorite story: I have replaced all the batteries tried three alternators and it still don't charge. I go to the shelf grab the correct serpentine belt and install it correctly(routing). using logic not the diagram on the shroud. remember that many systems depends on your belts with serpentine so any time you lose rotation from slipping you lose performance on one or more items ps/waterpump/brakes/alternator/plow pump etc. all gm I check front components at 60,000 miles in rough service.


lots of info to digest on this thread but for a nerd like me great stuff!


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## shmodaddy

Thanks fir the link wood burner!  Im  like you and read the heck outta  stuff like this!


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## Highbeam

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> The only ones who get paid for a misdiagnosis are doctors!


 
Unfortunately, the owner pays for parts replacement and mechanic time even if it doesn't fix the problem. It's a rare shop that will eat the cost of failed attempts.


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## infinitymike

So other the last Tuesday and Thursday the heat as been fine,
It still says low coolant on the dash.
I checked hose this morning and it wasn't super hard but more firm like.
I slowly opened the over flow cap (there is NO other cap anywhere on the system) and it had some pressure.
It gurgled and some coolant rose up and bubbled into the container.

I'll check it again tomorrow morning.

I called a radiator shop. Thats all they do is radiators and heater cores. thats it.
I told him what was going on and he said he's not sure if its a head gasket or a thermo stat, but bring it in and he will do some diagnosis.
He charges $130 to flush the system.


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## greg13

[quote="NE WOOD BURNER, post: 1611649, member: 25754"

The only ones who get paid for a misdiagnosis  are doctors![/quote]

That's why doctors "Practice", the rest of us have to WORK


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## heat seeker

What about weather forecasters?


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## shmodaddy

infinitymike said:


> So other the last Tuesday and Thursday the heat as been fine,
> It still says low coolant on the dash.
> I checked hose this morning and it wasn't super hard but more firm like.
> I slowly opened the over flow cap (there is NO other cap anywhere on the system) and it had some pressure.
> It gurgled and some coolant rose up and bubbled into the container.
> 
> I'll check it again tomorrow morning.
> 
> I called a radiator shop. Thats all they do is radiators and heater cores. thats it.
> I told him what was going on and he said he's not sure if its a head gasket or a thermo stat, but bring it in and he will do some diagnosis.
> He charges $130 to flush the system.



Dont sound good bud.  IF the truck had sat overnight there shouldn't have been any pressure left in the system.  The block should have cooled along with the coolant and the expanded  coolant "shrunk" back into the block leaving a void in the expansion tank replaced with outside air drawn in through the cap.  A cold engine should not release coolant into the expansion tank when the cap is removed.  Now a HOT engine will obviously.

In my opinion save the $130 flush and find a reputable diesel shop in your area that is familiar with duramax engines.

When cold you should easily be able to squeeze the upper radiator hose and feel/hear coolant.


----------



## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> Dont sound good bud.  IF the truck had sat overnight there shouldn't have been any pressure left in the system.  The block should have cooled along with the coolant and the expanded  coolant "shrunk" back into the block leaving a void in the expansion tank replaced with outside air drawn in through the cap.  A cold engine should not release coolant into the expansion tank when the cap is removed.  Now a HOT engine will obviously.
> 
> In my opinion save the $130 flush and find a reputable diesel shop in your area that is familiar with duramax engines.
> 
> When cold you should easily be able to squeeze the upper radiator hose and feel/hear coolant.


----------



## shmodaddy

Sorry bud....I could be and honestly hope I am wrong!  Find you a good duramax mechanic and see what they say hopefully they will tell you I'm a dumb ass and its something simple.  Take it easy on her and put her back on the stock tune.  Like someone said earlier the tuner may be upping the injection timing and causing elevated combustion pressures which won't help your situation out either.


----------



## shmodaddy

Check this out

http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/0...lly-wont-build-heat-overheats-under-load.html


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## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> Check this out
> 
> http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/0...lly-wont-build-heat-overheats-under-load.html




OH BOY, that sounds very similar to my story


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## richg

Thoughts and prayers are with you as based on the post in the Duramax forum, this is looking like a cashectomy. What I find so so disheartening about major car repairs is that after they are done, all you have is a vehicle that runs....you don't have anything new. It would be one thing if you dropped 5k on a Blaze King Ultra and a new splitter as at least you'd have some great new gear. Good luck.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

Good Morning,
Thought this truck would be fixed by Now

ok if you have a block heater.

run the truck tonight then park for night and plug in your block heater. check the hose in the morning. just curious.

the radiator shop may have a thermo imaging system also. lets you know temps before and after tstats,in and out of H core and Radiator.


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## infinitymike

richg said:


> cashectomy. .



???

Thanks for the thoughts and even more for the prayers. Hopefully this will work out with  major expense.


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Good Morning,
> Thought this truck would be fixed by Now
> 
> ok if you have a block heater.
> 
> run the truck tonight then park for night and plug in your block heater. check the hose in the morning. just curious.
> 
> the radiator shop may have a thermo imaging system also. lets you know temps before and after tstats,in and out of H core and Radiator.



It would be if you would have come down here

I'll do that.

Ran the truck all day yesterday with good heat but still the display was saying low coolant.
Went out just now and the upper hose was no where as hard as it has been. It was pliable and I heard fluid squishing around.
I opened the cap and very little pressure was released.


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER

Well I was close to you yesterday. But hate to get grease on my Christmas sweater.

I looked up flat rate time for the head gasket job.

I am going to ask around the guys and family and see what they think of this situation your having. I am thinking that if you replace the gaskets you may not have solved the cause. I got buddies here that run the duramax and they are getting well over 200,000 with little troubles. 9' plows and sanders,dump trailers etc. most are stock some have bully dog systems. not to many Banks set ups that I have seen here.
I think your PDA tuner has a memory of how the truck has been running. The guys at Banks can probably evaluate the history.
The Long Island Expressway I would consider a severe duty for maintenance schedule.

When did you install all the Banks goodies? mileage?


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## NE WOOD BURNER

http://www.alldata.com


I would also check for Technical Service Bullitins(TSBs) on this site with your vin#.  see if anything is relevant to your truck. some dealer/jobber shops do this check automatically but some don't. GM dealer may look up for you if you got a relationship with them.


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## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> The Long Island Expressway I would consider a severe duty for maintenance schedule.
> 
> When did you install all the Banks goodies? mileage?



I  consider LI to be a severe duty maintenance schedule

I bought the truck in 07 from a guy who moved from California to Connecticut. 
He had it put on before he drove across the country with his 5th wheeler. 
He had about 19k before he left. I got it with 22.5k 
He used it to pull his toy hauler (35' 5th wheel camper with garage in back) out into the desert to play. He was selling the trailer also. But I passed on that since I already have my own. 

Thank you for all the help and all the links to good reading. 

Merry Christmas.


----------



## Kool_hand_Looke

Just my two cents from someone w worked for a Detroit Diesel distributor and did in frame rebuilds: that's a "bubble" in your water jacket. What caused te need or more coolant? Could be gasket, could be EGR issue. But, when you fill coolant leave the cap off the overflow and it run...and get hot. It'll suck the air pocket through and your coolant level will drop again. Then top it off.


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## infinitymike

Kool_hand_Looke said:


> Just my two cents from someone w worked for a Detroit Diesel distributor and did in frame rebuilds: that's a "bubble" in your water jacket. What caused te need or more coolant? Could be gasket, could be EGR issue. But, when you fill coolant leave the cap off the overflow and it run...and get hot. It'll suck the air pocket through and your coolant level will drop again. Then top it off.



Thank you. 
I haven't done anything since the last post and also haven't had any issues with the heat either. I still get the low coolant display. Also I got this code from the on board diagnostic part of the Banks PDA diesel tuner. One a glow plug issue and one is a coolant temp issue. 

Any more thoughts.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0128


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## NE WOOD BURNER

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0677


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## infinitymike

NE Wood, Thank you.

Great stuff, this forum is amazing.
Not only have I learned about wood burning but I get help with anything else.


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## shmodaddy

infinitymike said:


> NE Wood, Thank you.
> 
> Great stuff, this forum is amazing.
> Not only have I learned about wood burning but I get help with anything else.



Glow plugs are super easy to chang on our trucks.  Just like changing a spark plug in your lawn mower.  The cylinder numbers are backwards on d maxes.  Number one is on the passenger side.  A glow plug is like 20 something or so.   Go ahead and get Ac delco not a AutoZone or O Reillys.  AC Delcos last longer.


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## shmodaddy

oh and dont worry about changing it right away either.  I've been driving mine with 4 out for about  two years and have not had any starting issues, even  in 0 degree weather, but really change it sooner than later.


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## shmodaddy

As far as the low coolant light still on even with the tank at or near the proper level maybe the sensor is bad.


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## Seasoned Oak

Highbeam said:


> This is not a small block chevy. It is a VERY expensive and sophisticated engine. Get to a real diesel mechanic or a good dealer and spend the relatively small amount of money to dignose your problem. When things break on a diesel you are looking at several thousand dollars for each component. Stop guessing, you are further risking damage.


Yea, i love these diesel trucks but im afraid to buy one. When its time for repairs "look out". MY son has several thousand into a tranny job on his.  MY truck(which does have a small block in it) hauls just as much without the premium repair bills.


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## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> Glow plugs are super easy to chang on our trucks.  Just like changing a spark plug in your lawn mower.  The cylinder numbers are backwards on d maxes.  Number one is on the passenger side.  A glow plug is like 20 something or so.   Go ahead and get Ac delco not a AutoZone or O Reillys.  AC Delcos last longer.



So does that mean number 7 is the second in from the radiator on the drivers side? Or is it the second one in from the firewall?


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## infinitymike

shmodaddy said:


> As far as the low coolant light still on even with the tank at or near the proper level maybe the sensor is bad.


The tank has never been at the proper level since the coolant display has been on. 
Today was the first time I have ever seen anything under the truck. 
There was a small wet spot under the front drivers side. I did some deeper looking and saw the lower hose was wet and so was some of the surrounding area. Ya think I might have looked a little harder sooner. I never even laid on my back to look around. But  In defense to myself it's really hard to see the lower hose from the top and I was always looking at the overflow box and upper hose. 
So hopefully that is where the fluid is going and maybe sucking some air in from which may be causing the high pressure and maybe is what licked up the thermostat. 
Maybe this weekend if we don't get slammed with snow I can peek around a bit more.


----------



## semipro

infinitymike said:


> The tank has never been at the proper level since the coolant display has been on.
> Today was the first time I have ever seen anything under the truck.
> There was a small wet spot under the front drivers side. I did some deeper looking and saw the lower hose was wet and so was some of the surrounding area. Ya think I might have looked a little harder sooner. I never even laid on my back to look around. But  In defense to myself it's really hard to see the lower hose from the top and I was always looking at the overflow box and upper hose.
> So hopefully that is where the fluid is going and maybe sucking some air in from which may be causing the high pressure and maybe is what licked up the thermostat.
> Maybe this weekend if we don't get slammed with snow I can peek around a bit more.


On many engines coolant on the lower hose may indicate a leaking water pump.  I'm not sure how this engine is laid out but a leak from the weep hole on a water pump will run down the lower radiator hose that is connected to the water pump.
As I said though, I don't know this specific engine so it may be different on the DuraMax.

Edit:
Check out this link for photos specific to the Duramax: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...-lb7/447965-seeping-water-pump-weep-hole.html


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## shmodaddy

quote="infinitymike, post: 1619258, member: 18321"]The tank has never been at the proper level since the coolant display has been on.
Today was the first time I have ever seen anything under the truck.
There was a small wet spot under the front drivers side. I did some deeper looking and saw the lower hose was wet and so was some of the surrounding area. Ya think I might have looked a little harder sooner. I never even laid on my back to look around. But  In defense to myself it's really hard to see the lower hose from the top and I was always looking at the overflow box and upper hose.
So hopefully that is where the fluid is going and maybe sucking some air in from which may be causing the high pressure and maybe is what licked up the thermostat.
Maybe this weekend if we don't get slammed with snow I can peek around a bit more.[/quote]

Hopefully  that will just be the lower radiators hose!  That will be an easy fix....the water pump in that area also...look aound there for the weephole.  If you can see coolant coming from there you would be looking at replacing the water pump.


----------



## shmodaddy

you all are fast!  Yes that indicates a water pump.   If u replace, replace the pump eith one with a WELDED impeller, not a plastic impeller pressed on the shaft.  Those are prone to spinning on the shaft.   The pump.is bolted to block and is gear driven.


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## 1kzwoman

Anyone else hear the old school methods of head gasket diagnosis I did?
Coolant loss plus oil gain and milky color/ antifreeze smell, or antifreeze smell in exhaust.
Or hear to test thermostats by heating in water before installation... also have seen them installed wrong direction.
This sounds like a timing issue, combined with air in cooling system, followed by water pump.


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## infinitymike

You know what's funny I never checked the dipstick nor did my mechanic. But then again he says you won't get coolant in the piston if its just a small pin hole because there is to much compression. But when it the gasket really blows out.....look out.... You'll be crop dusting like nobody's business. 

 I have changed the oil once since the low coolant display showed up back over the summer and there were no signs. But I'm due to change it again.


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## 1kzwoman

Drain into a see through container, then let it sit..oil and water will separate...might take a couple of days.  Smell will speak loudly too IMHO


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## shmodaddy

infinitymike said:


> You know what's funny I never checked the dipstick nor did my mechanic. But then again he says you won't get coolant in the piston if its just a small pin hole because there is to much compression. But when it the gasket really blows out.....look out.... You'll be crop dusting like nobody's business.
> 
> I have changed the oil once since the low coolant display showed up back over the summer and there were no signs. But I'm due to change it again.



That is correct.   Water in the oil is rare.  If you are gaining oil with the duramax you most likely have an injector going out.  That sux too.  The thromostats can only be put in one way.  One is bigger than the other....unless your meaning upside down which with them being original in his truck should have presented itself sooner,  I would think any way.


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## shmodaddy

If you end up "making" engine oil  there is a test called a blot test  where you put a drop of oil on white paper towel.  It  will "halo"  if you  have fuel in the oil.


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## 1kzwoman

Upside down is what I meant, yes I agree it would have shown sooner on original.
Hadn't hear of halo for fuel..thanks


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## infinitymike

Will it halo with coolant in the oil?


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## shmodaddy

no we got off topic a bit there.  If you ever notice  your engine oil level  higher than  where you filled it to,  you most likely would have an injector leaking.   When they leak they  leak fuel into the engine oil increasing its level.   You can put a drop on a  paper towel and you will see a black oil spot with a lighter "halo"  around that.   Plus you can usually smell the fuel in the oil....off topic  some but  somewhat rrelevant  in the context at that time.


----------



## shmodaddy

In most HG  failures  your vehicle smokes like my  hardy heater  and would have coolant in the oil making it look milky and raising the oil level on dip stick.   In  most cases with the duramax  that dont.happen.  You  have the symtoms  that you describe... but  hopefully  Its  just your water pump... still not cheap but cheaper than  head gaskets.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

This is a fun thread.

1. have compression check a.) as is(DRY) b.) with oil in cylinder "WET"
a.) will tell you the current condition of engine with rings as a question.
b.)will seat the rings with oil and raise compression readings. if you have a bad injector it will most likely wash the cylinders down lowering compression.
while compression test is done the glow plugs are out. install all 8 new($160) and anti sieze the threaded portion. (save on labor)
2. GM has always been a 60,000 mile magic mile mark! the diesel is Japanize though that is typically a 100,000 mile magic mile mark!
60,000 change idler and tensioner pullys($50 idler $68 tensioner and pully),check alternator($180-200 new), change serpentine belt($45-70), water pump change(Hitachi new $200),change thermostats($40 each),check all hoses and coolant pipes replace as needed, flush and fill. reservoir cap($15) 15 psi cap. 
3.) road test for a while after clearing all codes you will most likely be fine. if it is not then its head gasket time. *unless compression check reveals head gasket right off the bat.
4.)head gaskets: remove both heads send to machine shop pressure check and plane(call shop for price), intake gaskets, and fuel injectors($1600 new $1600 core charge)  
* do not just slide head gaskets in.

If you can do your own work. checking and replacing what is broken is great.
if you pay labor than having the parts on hand saves labor if you are at an hourly shop. flat rate shops may charge for each replacement item(costly)

just my experience with many GM trucks(gas and diesel) on the hook of the tow truck. and most are towing something when this stuff craps out.

BTW injector pump is about $842

Magic mile mark is when things break. not all the time but most of the time.

keep old stuff belts pullys etc. helps in the event of a break down and parts are not available.


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## ironpony

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> This is a fun thread.
> 
> 1. have compression check a.) as is(DRY) b.) with oil in cylinder "WET"
> a.) will tell you the current condition of engine with rings as a question.
> b.)will seat the rings with oil and raise compression readings. if you have a bad injector it will most likely wash the cylinders down lowering compression.
> while compression test is done the glow plugs are out. install all 8 new($160) and anti sieze the threaded portion. (save on labor)
> 2. GM has always been a 60,000 mile magic mile mark! the diesel is Japanize though that is typically a 100,000 mile magic mile mark!
> 60,000 change idler and tensioner pullys($50 idler $68 tensioner and pully),check alternator($180-200 new), change serpentine belt($45-70), water pump change(Hitachi new $200),change thermostats($40 each),check all hoses and coolant pipes replace as needed, flush and fill. reservoir cap($15) 15 psi cap.
> 3.) road test for a while after clearing all codes you will most likely be fine. if it is not then its head gasket time. *unless compression check reveals head gasket right off the bat.
> 4.)head gaskets: remove both heads send to machine shop pressure check and plane(call shop for price), intake gaskets, and fuel injectors($1600 new $1600 core charge)
> * do not just slide head gaskets in.
> 
> If you can do your own work. checking and replacing what is broken is great.
> if you pay labor than having the parts on hand saves labor if you are at an hourly shop. flat rate shops may charge for each replacement item(costly)
> 
> just my experience with many GM trucks(gas and diesel) on the hook of the tow truck. and most are towing something when this stuff craps out.
> 
> BTW injector pump is about $842
> 
> Magic mile mark is when things break. not all the time but most of the time.
> 
> keep old stuff belts pullys etc. helps in the event of a break down and parts are not available.


 



Or swap in a Cummins and forget about having any problems for another 400,000 miles.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

ironpony said:


> Or swap in a Cummins and forget about having any problems for another 400,000 miles



yes that is a great idea, but I think the IFS gets in the way for the big one. 4BT with lots of mods would get it done.

my son just picked up a 2001 2500 quad 4wd 120000 miles 6spd manual 24valve. nice truck. they are the best cold weather starting diesel I have run into.


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## infinitymike

Well the symptoms got worse and there was more coolant blowing out more regularly.
I had to do it, but REALLY?! Ya gotta pull the engine to fix these things?!
My mechanic and several others I called just out of disbelief all said the same thing...you can pull the engine or lift the body off the frame
No wonder it will cost 4 grand
I'm no wrench turner but I have a hard time buying that.


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## 1kzwoman

OUCH!! My sympathies to you


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## infinitymike

1kzwoman said:


> OUCH!! My sympathies to you



Thanks


----------



## jatoxico

infinitymike said:


> Thanks


Sucky day. What are the might as wells gonna add up to?


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## fbelec

last year i was talking to a ford teacher. he had the lastest ford diesel pickup with him. after looking under the hood i asked how does anyone work on this thing. his answer was pull the cab off the frame. and he said that he has guys that will have the cab off in a hour. the least any of the truck or car companys could do if they're going to make a vehicle that needs a plunger to do a motor is make it so you could get a few more years out of it before anything has to be done to it. the days of 200 to 300 dollars for a repair are gone.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

Well that sucks. Does that price include all the other things that should be done also? ask them to show you the head gaskets they take out If there was a failure of the gasket you will see it.


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## ironpony

as stated above , same for the power strokes.  really sorry to hear that, something that is easily fixable becomes a major project. good luck with the repairs.


----------



## ironpony

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> yes that is a great idea, but I think the IFS gets in the way for the big one. 4BT with lots of mods would get it done.
> 
> my son just picked up a 2001 2500 quad 4wd 120000 miles 6spd manual 24valve. nice truck. they are the best cold weather starting diesel I have run into.


 


mine is an 02 same configuration. 120000 just broken in mine is at 110000. that is basically a single rear wheel 1 ton, they went to a Dana 80 with the six speed and it is probably a High Output (HO) motor. Look into changing the steering components to 3rd gen. parts when needed. direct replacement and better geometry.
Back to regularly scheduled programming.


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## NE WOOD BURNER

Just wait until ford puts a diesel in the new Aluminum F150. That will be an expensive one to fix!


----------



## infinitymike

jatoxico said:


> Sucky day. What are the might as wells gonna add up to?




Ha that's funny. 
I got the call on monday and i quote
Well, we might as well change the water pump
Put an after market left side Exhuast manifold
Do a PCV re route
Do an EGR blocker. 

Honestly not sure the dollar amount.


----------



## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Well that sucks. Does that price include all the other things that should be done also? ask them to show you the head gaskets they take out If there was a failure of the gasket you will see it.



Not sure. 
What are all the other things that should be done?


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## NE WOOD BURNER

Don't forget your glow plugs and injectors! now is the time. EGR blocker or EGR delete?


See previous comments from Christmas gave you a list with prices. -LOL


----------



## Frank Nuhfer

The 04 Duramax has two thermostats.  One IIRC has a bleed screw on top of the Tstat.  That's where you bleed the air out of the system.  Go to
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/index.php and do a search for bleeding air.  Another thing, in the morning when you go out to start your truck, look at the top radiator hose.  If it is collapsed, ie sucked in, you need to replace your coolant recovery cap.  Also the fluid that came out by the front tire, if the water pump is failing, it will leak from the weep hole in the bottom of the pump, and will give you that fluid.  That is also covered in the web site above.  My 04 Duramax was the best truck I ever owned.


----------



## infinitymike

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Don't forget your glow plugs and injectors! now is the time. EGR blocker or EGR delete?
> 
> 
> See previous comments from Christmas gave you a list with prices. -LOL




Doing glow plugs.
NOT doing injectors $2400 extra... just clean and reinstall
Doing water pump with steel impeller.
Doing EGR blocker
NOT doing EGR delete in case there is an issue with an inspection shop or worse... DOT
Doing new left exhaust manifold because factory one pinches more then it needs to to clear steering shaft.
NOT doing upgraded APR studs to expensive and not really worth it.
Doing PCV re route.

All this $ and I'll never really  notice a difference.
It's not like I'm doing a lift kit or putting on new rims or some wild engine performance kit.
Its just stinkin'  head gaskets.


----------



## NE WOOD BURNER

yes they get expensive. I am curious if they found the cause of the head gasket failure. also what brand of head gaskets they chose for replacements.

head gaskets at that mileage seems like there should be a TSB on that at the dealer. most likely wont take care of it, but may have reason and the cure for the early failure.

Good luck!


----------



## shmodaddy

infinitymike said:


> Well the symptoms got worse and there was more coolant blowing out more regularly.
> I had to do it, but REALLY?! Ya gotta pull the engine to fix these things?!
> My mechanic and several others I called just out of disbelief all said the same thing...you can pull the engine or lift the body off the frame
> No wonder it will cost 4 grand
> I'm no wrench turner but I have a hard time buying that.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 124089




ouch sorry bud....wish I was would have been wrong.


----------



## fbelec

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Just wait until ford puts a diesel in the new Aluminum F150. That will be an expensive one to fix!


yep they will have all the aluminum fuse together after two winters of salt and have to throw away the truck.


----------



## Seasoned Oak

fbelec said:


> yep they will have all the aluminum fuse together after two winters of salt and have to throw away the truck.


Should be a high scrap value down the road.


----------



## infinitymike

engineerin


fbelec said:


> yep they will have all the aluminum fuse together after two winters of salt and have to throw away the truck.


engineering  at its finest


----------



## fbelec

infinitymike said:


> engineerin
> 
> engineering  at its finest



yep and i'm a ford guy


----------

