# Home Depot or Lowes FHW boilers



## pelletizer (Jan 26, 2009)

Has anyone purchased or know a friend who has purchased a FHW oil boiler from Home Depot or Lowes?
I did see some at Home Depot and have a friend looking to replace her FHW boiler and wonering if these any good?


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## Dune (Feb 1, 2009)

Seems to me that most companies make extra crappy versions of their otherwise quality products, just to sell at Home Depot and Lowes. This is certainly true for plumbing fixtures and power tools. You get what you pay for.


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## rowerwet (Jun 29, 2009)

according to my oil burner service guy I could expect 10-15 years out of a HD slant-fin or 25 plus for what ever brand he was pitching, so if I am planning to sell the house in the next few years I go HD/lowes, otherwise I go more expensive.


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## fbelec (Jul 9, 2009)

if you were planning on a do it yourself installation i would think twice. if it is oil, you need a license oil tech to do the oil gun. if it's gas you need a license for the gas install also. and a permit. at least here in mass you do. if you don't do the install right it's not only the fire you have to deal with as a hazard. if you start building steam in a hot water boiler the boiler inself becomes the bomb.

i wire boilers quite often. so i see the different brand and how they work. if she doesn't plan on staying a regular cast iron boiler will do. if she is going to stay there and not move put in a quality piece. around here which should be the same where you are budaris is the best or peerless is a good quality cheaper price unit. the key to running a low utility bill is the boiler not running if you go with cast iron, budaris starts throwing heat the fastest of all the cast iron boilers out there. that saves you money because it start heating right away. it may only be a ten minute difference but that is every time it starts and that adds up. if you have gas you have a number of products. budaris wall hung boilers start heating right away and they also modulate the flame. so does peerless. flame modulation is the flame adjusts itself for the load so that your not wasting fuel. if you have a 140,000 btu boiler and your water tank calls for heat usally they take around 30 to 40,000 btu of heat to work. the boiler start off at 140,000 then turns itself down to 40,000 to heat the tank and they are usally very quiet boilers

for a example my father inlaw had a gas fired 80% efficentcy boiler and separate water heater. in the second house down on cape cod. it gets used in the winter also but it's always heated to 50 to 55 degrees when nobodys there. he changed the boiler and tank. put in a munchkin boiler made by heat transfer products which is the same as the peerless with a heat transfer products stainless steel storage tank. the house is being used the same way and now when we go down there we can take showers one right after the other and never run out of hot water and the biggie.   the gas bill has been cut in half. 

a little long winded, but if you can use a little of what i said it was worth it

good luck


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## Gooserider (Jul 10, 2009)

fbelec said:
			
		

> if you were planning on a do it yourself installation i would think twice. if it is oil, you need a license oil tech to do the oil gun. if it's gas you need a license for the gas install also. and a permit. at least here in mass you do. if you don't do the install right it's not only the fire you have to deal with as a hazard. if you start building steam in a hot water boiler the boiler inself becomes the bomb.
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Agreed, there are requirements that the licensed pros do at least some of the job (combination of pressure from the various trades and inspectors that can't be bothered to inspect thoroughly I'm sure...) but far as I know, it is legit to do any of the parts of the work that aren't restricted yourself, i.e put the unit in place and hook up all the plumbing except the gas / oil, then call in the trade guy for the finishing work, or possibly do it yourself if you can find a trade guy that will inspect and sign off on the work that you've done...

(I've had "Licensed pro's" leave our house with a gas leak, others left us with plumbing leaks, and our "inspected" wiring leaves a lot to be desired, we had to pay big bucks to replace our "inspected" but non-code compliant water main, etc...)

Gooserider


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## fbelec (Jul 10, 2009)

the other thing you can't touch without a license is the fresh water line. it also needs a back flow preventer


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## stee6043 (Jul 10, 2009)

Interesting thread....here in Michigan the homeowner can do any work on his/her home as long as it meets code and the proper permits/inspections have been obtained.  We don't need to be licensed to install gas lines, water lines or do electrical inside our homes.  I guess there are still at least one or two good things about this state!!  ha.


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## newstove (Jul 10, 2009)

I know that in Massachusetts, you can do your own electrical, but you cannot do your own plumbing.

I know that in Maine (as of last year when we were working on my dad's house), you can do your own plumbing, but you cannot do your own electrical.

To me, the MA law makes more sense - with electrical, you can pretty much only kill yourself and those in your house (burn it down).  I.E. the collateral damage is limited pretty much to your own property (generators backfeeding non-withstanding.)  With plumbing, you can easily backfeed sewage into the water main and potentially sicken and/or kill hundreds or thousands of people.

But, in either case, I would think that you should be able to do both, as long as you get it properly permitted and inspected to make sure it meets code.

*shrug*


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## stee6043 (Jul 10, 2009)

Ultimately, if you have to have it inspected why does it matter who does it?  Either the work is up to code or it's not.  Seems pretty simple to me.  Too may laws...too many restrictions...too many fees.  ha.


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## Gooserider (Jul 10, 2009)

stee6043 said:
			
		

> Ultimately, if you have to have it inspected why does it matter who does it?  Either the work is up to code or it's not.  Seems pretty simple to me.  Too may laws...too many restrictions...too many fees.  ha.



I totally agree, as the inspector's stamp is essentially meaningless - there is NO liability on him or the gov't if he approves something that he shouldn't have, but you have to pay a bunch for it...  However it DOES matter a whole bunch who does it - you (and maybe some friends) for essentially nothing, or some "licensed professional" who may be able to do it faster, but will cost you $50-100 / hr or more...  Considering my experience w/ licensed pros, I wouldn't put money on which would do a better job...

Of course it would help a whole bunch if the codes were written in a more accessible manner...  I think the code guys take lessons in obfuscated writing from the IRS, or maybe vice versa...

Gooserider


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## stee6043 (Jul 10, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

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Agree 100% as well.  Have you ever priced out a copy of the International Building Code?  It's unreal.  If it weren't for sites like this the real information would be forever lost on "professionals".  And I also agree that while I may take a lot longer working with black pipe than a pro would - my system looks pretty darn nice.  And I haven't killed anyone with my electrical work yet either....


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## Gooserider (Jul 11, 2009)

stee6043 said:
			
		

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The cost for code books is another pet peeve of mine - far as I'm concerned, if they have made something into a legal requirement, which it seems to me that code is given that the government says you MUST follow it, then it should be at the very least available as a free download, or on dead trees for no more than the nominal cost of the printing job...  Laws and other actions of the government should NOT be copyrightable, or the means to profit for a private entity....

They tell us that we are responsible for knowing and following the law, they should not be charging us for doing our job...

Gooserider


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## fbelec (Jul 11, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

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## newstove (Jul 11, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

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So, I must disagree with you (at least a little ;-) ) on the inspector's stamp having no liability, at least for certain things such as wood stove inspections, etc.

I had a nice, long conversation with our inspector (who is also the building inspector and a fire inspector for many towns.)

He had many a story to tell of bad inspectors who were fired and/or sued and/or brought up on charges for rubber stamping installations that went bad.  One particular one was a wood stove insert that was installed into an old brick chimney.  There were bricks missing in the chimney in the attic, and they used a "spray in" chimney liner, and everyone from the installer to the inspector passed everything 100% with flying colors.

Well, needless to say, there was a chimney fire, and the house had major damage.  Since my inspector is the fire inspector, he got to post-mortem this one, along with the insurance company and the state.  At the end of the day, they discovered that the chimney was totally inadequate, that the chimney fire caused flames to shoot out the missing brick places in the chimney and catch the house on fire.  The insurance company never had to pay, the original inspector was fired with cause, and the installer and manufacturer of the "spray in" chimney liner were sued.  The original inspector, since fired with cause, was also sued, and I think was threatened with charges, but they aren't sure if they ever did or not.

My inspector basically told us that they are liable if something goes wrong because they are signing off on it.  That's the reason he told our installer that he was making him jump through all the hoops (pull the surround, look up and inside the chimney, he wants all installs to have damper block-offs, he will instantly reject any install where fiberglass insulation is used even though manufacturers of stoves say it is ok, etc.)  He's a real stickler, and has seen a LOT of bad installs gone bad, and has seen the fallout.

Now, I would suspect that in 99.99% of the cases, there is no accountability.  There is liability, but no one is ever held accountable.  That, I can agree with. ;-)


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## Gooserider (Jul 11, 2009)

In most states, including MA, unless one can show gross negligence or willful misconduct, the inspector is specifically NOT liable, per state law...  Used to be that he was, but the laws were changed a few years back...

Gooserider


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## newstove (Jul 11, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> In most states, including MA, unless one can show gross negligence or willful misconduct, the inspector is specifically NOT liable, per state law...  Used to be that he was, but the laws were changed a few years back...
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I'm not surprised they changed the law.  I believe this happened 15+ years ago - our inspector is an old-timer.  At least it keeps him on his toes thinking he is liable. ;-)


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