# Cider time



## begreen (Oct 11, 2013)

Got a new toy, a new cider press. It's very compact and works great. We pressed 150 lbs of apples and got 6.5 gallons of deliciousness. The neighbors kids helped a little with picking and the pressing.






Time to get this stuff fermenting!


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## JOHN BOY (Oct 11, 2013)

Begreen ..do you have to add anything to the mix ..? Looks yummy


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2013)

No, as a cider it  is delicious due to the apples used. Most of this is heading to hard cider land though.


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## 1750 (Oct 11, 2013)

begreen said:


> No, as a cider it  is delicious due to the apples used. Most of this is heading to hard cider land though.


That looks like great fun.  

Will you add a commercial yeast to it, or does this process rely on wild yeast?


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## fbelec (Oct 12, 2013)

one more question. does it matter what type apple is used?


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2013)

I use commercial yeast. Last year I used champagne yeast with good success. Pen did up a batch with just the natural yeast last year.

The type of apples do matter if you are fussy and want to get a full flavored cider. This is more important with fermented hard cider than with sweet cider. For sweet cider a blend of good eating apples is fine. For alcholic cider it is recommended to add a lot of what most folks would pass on for eating apples. That said we used King and Shay last year and it was great. Our cider turned out very dry and light, much like a Prosecco. This year I added a bunch of Winter Banana apples which I hope will add a richer apple flavor. We'll see.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 12, 2013)

Most of the time for cider it is best to use a mix of different type of apples. Tomorrow we plan on making some more and will be using 4 different types of apples. I swear this will be the last time for cider making this year!

Begreen, I like the looks of that press.


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## Paulywalnut (Oct 12, 2013)

Nice press Begreen. I've seen it done many times and drink cider, never hard cider though.  Lots of people around here make their own.


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## Shari (Oct 12, 2013)

Mmmmmmmmmmmm.... sweet cider.  Yummm.......

We happen to have a fairly well known apple orchard in our area:  

http://www.westonapples.com/hist.htm

Here's a clip from their website:  "The family-operated orchards have supplied the public with historic apple varieties for over 60 years. Some of the orchards' trees were planted in the late nineteenth century and significant additional plantings were made during the Great Depression by the orchards current owners. The orchards cover 16 acres with more than 700 trees and over 100 varieties with dates varying from the Calville Blanc d'Hiver (1598), Gravenstien (1600) to the Wolf River (1881) and Pink Pearl (1944). Weston's Orchards work to conserve these antique apple vaieties from extinction. The Old Church apple, for example, is grown solely on their farm."


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2013)

I would love to visit that orchard some time. That's an amazing variety of apples they have. 
http://www.westonapples.com/apples.htm


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## Todd 2 (Oct 13, 2013)

That is really neat BG, I do like that new toy. Just brought home some fresh made apple butter from the festival down the road today, also two loaves of wood fired brick oven bread, good stuff !


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## 1750 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm impressed by the yield.   150 #s of applies nets over 50 #s of cider!

Is there a use, other than good composting, for 100 # of squashed apple remains?


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 13, 2013)

Yes. Feed them to the deer. 


We made 8 1/2 gallons today. Much better as it was cooler weather but the bees were just as plentiful.


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2013)

1750 said:


> I'm impressed by the yield.   150 #s of applies nets over 50 #s of cider!
> 
> Is there a use, other than good composting, for 100 # of squashed apple remains?



Yes, it uses hydraulics for up to 6000# of force. This is much easier, faster and more efficient than the crank presses. Great for an old geezer making cider. The apple pancake that comes out of the press is almost dry. The whole rig breaks down easily and hangs on the garage wall.


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## 1750 (Oct 13, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> We made 8 1/2 gallons today. Much better as it was cooler weather but the bees were just as plentiful.


That sounds delicious, Backwoods!    Does it store well?  Or, maybe you are going to make it into hard cider?



begreen said:


> Yes, it uses hydraulics for up to 6000# of force. This is much easier, faster and more efficient than the crank presses. Great for an old geezer making cider. The apple pancake that comes out of the press is almost dry. The whole rig breaks down easily and hangs on the garage wall.


Is this press commercially available?  Or, is it something you fabricated yourself?   (If you bought it, I'd love to see a link and read more about it.)


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2013)

It was #2 in production made by a local fruit club member. I don't think he is ready to go commercial but will ask.


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## 1750 (Oct 13, 2013)

begreen said:


> It was #2 in production made by a local fruit club member. I don't think he is ready to go commercial but will ask.


No worries.   There are probably similar things available commercially (I haven't done any research).  It just looked very compact and easy to manage, and I thought it might be a good place to start.

A good hard cider is very refreshing.   Enjoy!


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## Jags (Oct 14, 2013)

And a motorized grinder.  Smart man...


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## webbie (Oct 14, 2013)

Damn stuff binds me up something fierce!


But it's hard to resist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Back in Jersey we had a local orchard named Jersey Jerrys. They made the very best cider I've ever tasted. It was so thick that it seemed like syrup. They had a large store which was all "honor". You walked through and picked up what you wanted and there was a machine - like in a bus or trolley - where you dropped your cash.

For those who wonder about those famous bind u up qualities, apples have large amounts of pectin in them....which is what they use for making jelly harden. Oh, getting too graphic here.....


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

Never had that issue. It gives new meaning to the phrase 'jelly belly'.


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## Treacherous (Oct 14, 2013)

That really does look awesome and the cider sounds very tasty


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## begreen (Oct 15, 2013)

The cider turned out exceptional. We have very sweet juicy apples. Ironically that is not the best for hard cider so I bought some locally pressed, much more tart cider to mix in with it.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 15, 2013)

1750 said:


> That sounds delicious, Backwoods!    Does it store well?  Or, maybe you are going to make it into hard cider?
> 
> 
> Is this press commercially available?  Or, is it something you fabricated yourself?   (If you bought it, I'd love to see a link and read more about it.)




It can store really well and is easy to do. If you want to keep it from turning in the refrigerator, just leave the caps a bit loose. That will keep it from turning for some time but can't really tell you how long. Ours doesn't last that long. Or you can also freeze it. Naturally you don't want the containers full but a bit over 3/4 full. Again, leave the caps loose. It will freeze up so you can have cider for Christmas or even later. 

It can also be canned. 

Get cider fresh from the mill. To prepare, strain it through a clean, dampened jelly bag. Pour into a large kettle and bring to a good simmer at 200 degrees F. but do not boil.

Hot Pack Only--in Jars.

Pour strained fresh (and hot) cider into clean sterilized jars, leaving 1/4 inch of headroom; adjust lids. Process in a Hot-Water Bath at 190 degrees F. for 30 minutes for either pints or quarts. Remove jars and complete seal if necessary. Enjoy cider all winter when chilled again in refrigerator.

Recipe from Putting Food By printed by Bantam Books, 1979 and assembled by Ruth Hertzberg/Beatrice Vaughan/Janet Greene


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## 1750 (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks for the great recipe, Backwoods!   I've never canned, but this might be the opportunity I've been waiting for.

I brew quite a bit of beer, but have never tried a hard cider.   I was surprised by how dry and delicious they can be.   This might be next on my list of things to do.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

Our hard apple cider is much like a Prosecco, but a bit less alcoholic. It'll keep for over a year, but I bet it doesn't last that long.


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## Highbeam (Oct 16, 2013)

begreen said:


> Time to get this stuff fermenting!


 
Yes, ferment it.

I am now drinking a 5 gallon batch that I started fermenting on September 17. I am not a wine drinker so I use commercial nottingham ale yeast. My cider came from a local mill and was not pasteurized, OG was 1.060 and it was a nice dark brown with lots of sediment. Delicious. I added 3 lbs of high quality brown sugar and let it go. After the sugar, OG was up to 1.075.

After three weeks of fermenting and making a lovely aroma it was done. Fermented dry to 1.000, my math shows this to be just under 10% ABV. The photo was taken right after measuring FG. The cider/yeast makes a thick layer of junk on the bottom but hardly any foam on top like beer does.

Into the keg for a nice chot of carbonation. Beer ferments out to 1.014 or so so it still has some sweetness. Cider goes to dry and if you like dry wine then that's fine but I like some sweetness so I've been experimenting with some sweeteners. Honey and table sugar are no good since they don't dissolve. Powdered sugar is pretty good and brings up lots of additional apple flavor. In previous batches I have used Xylitol which is a non-fermentable sugar. Probably will try that next. You can't just add sugar to the batch since the yeast will come back to life and eat it. So you either use non-fermentable sugar, kill the yeast with sulfates, keg and cool, or drink it dry.

You can't do too much experimentation since this stuff is delicious and at 10% ABV it all starts tasting pretty good after one or two glasses.

The last photo you can see the remnants of table sugar that I tried to stir into the glass. It worked a little bit.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

It's bubbling along  very nicely right now!

Table sugar will dissolve easily in boiling water. You can dissolve a whole lot in a little bit of water. That is how simple syrup is made. Boiling water is good because it kills any random bacteria. I've read that the higher the alcohol or OG, the dryer the cider will be on completion due to the higher alcohol content. Last year I fermented at 1.060 OG and it came out very nicely. I didn't have to add any sweetener afterward which meant no killing of the yeast. I don't like the taste change of artificial sweeteners and sulfites, so they are out for me. It fermented to an alcohol content of about 6.5% which is just about right for a cider from what I've read.


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## Highbeam (Oct 16, 2013)

begreen said:


> It's bubbling along  very nicely right now!
> 
> Table sugar will dissolve nicely in boiling water. You can dissolve a lot in a little bit of water. That is how simple syrup is made. Boiling water is good because it kills any random bacteria. I've read that the higher the alcohol or OG, the dryer the cider will be on completion due to the higher alcohol content. Last year I fermented at 1.060 OG and it came out very nicely. I didn't have to add any sweetener afterward which meant no killing of the yeast. I don't like the taste change of artificial sweeteners and sulfites, so they are out for me. It fermented to an alcohol content of about 6.5% which is just about right for a cider from what I've read.


 
The dryness is simply the low FG. Most yeast, in cider, if you wait long enough, will burn up every bit of available sugar and get down to an FG of 1.000 which means no sweetness. The OG only tells you how much ABV will be contained in this dry cider.

I don't think the 10% was a good move. Next time, I'll use brown sugar as needed to boost OG to 1.060 or so. 6.5% is plenty.

WIth high ABV I have some odd sweetening options. Adding lemon lime soda for instance would both sweeten and dilute the alcohol. A simple syrup would be a much better way to add sugar than granular, good idea.


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## homebrewz (Oct 16, 2013)

Every year I get together with some friends and we press our cider for the year. The grinding and pressing is done by hand on a press made by "Happy Valley". In 2011, we did about 40 gallons. In 2012 we did about 1.5 gallons! (Last year was a bad apple year..) This year we pressed about 50 gallons. We use the apples from the old, forgotten apple trees at the edge of various farmlands. The apples are small and tart, and make a great product. I usually can several gallons and give the rest away, but this year I'm going to do 5 gallons of hard cider. I'm looking for a dry product, around 4% or 5% abv, so I won't add any extra sugar.. something like a Woodchuck hard cider. We'll see how it turns out. 

The pic attached is from 2010, but typical of what we press.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

Nice harvest! This year was a resting year for many of our trees and the deer cleared one tree completely. (My favorite of course.)  We only ended up with 6 gallons of cider.


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## homebrewz (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks! It all depends.. that pic was from 2010. Last year, we had a week of 80 degree f weather in March, followed by a late frost, effectively killing a lot of blossoms. It was slim pickings come apple time for sure. We only got the press out for tradition. This year was excellent. This pic is from this year and its only part of what we pressed.


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## Highbeam (Oct 16, 2013)

homebrewz said:


> I'm looking for a dry product, around 4% or 5% abv, so I won't add any extra sugar.. something like a Woodchuck hard cider.


 
Most commercial ciders like hornsby and woodchuck use sulfates to kill the yeast and then backsweeten the crap out of the finished cider. We americans like sweet drinks. Just keep it in mind that you may want to sweeten.


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## homebrewz (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm not a typical American, and I don't like a lot of commercial ciders. Thanks for the input though 

Its been a while since I've had a Woodchuck, but when I first started buying it in the late 90's, I recall it being dry and that they used a champagne yeast. I plan to attenuate it right down without much wine characteristics.. that should do it nicely. Regular cider without any sugar added ferments to about 4% to 5%.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

I have been using champagne yeast. It is very aggressive and results in a light, dry cider. It comes out like a nice Prosseco once back carbonated. Everyone that has tasted it likes it a lot. Still, I'd like to make up a batch using a less aggressive English ale yeast for comparison. I've read that will result in a less dry cider without being too sweet.


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## Highbeam (Oct 16, 2013)

It is so cheap and easy to make cider. No cooking, cooling, no hops additions, no grinding of grain, etc. Cheap cider from the supermarket, probably china had an OG of only 1.050 so there is certainly more sugar naturally available in some ciders than others. Good to choose a target gravity and adjust to hit that.


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## begreen (Oct 16, 2013)

I just read that Cascadian Farms concentrated apple juice is a good one. You want to be sure the quality is good and there are no yeast killing preservatives in whatever juice or cider is used. You've inspired me to get some ale yeast and try a small batch with it next.


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## 1750 (Oct 16, 2013)

begreen said:


> Our hard apple cider is much like a Prosecco, but a bit less alcoholic. It'll keep for over a year, but I bet it doesn't last that long.


That sounds delicious.  Like a brut sparkling wine or champagne.  

Maybe you can figure out a way to post a bottle here for everyone to taste.


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## fbelec (Oct 16, 2013)

has anyone tried the redds apple ale? i have not but i'm interested in cider with the beer yeast. what kind of flavors does a ale yeast vs. champagne yeast have? you are saying that a champagne yeast tends to have a dryer finished product? highbeam what did the brown sugar do for taste? i just thinking out loud but thinking of seeing if i could come up with a apple pie in a bottle. maybe i'm reaching?


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## begreen (Oct 17, 2013)

Some folks flavor their cider, just before bottling with spice flavorings. You have to be careful how and when you do it from what I read. Timing and the quality of ingredients is important.


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## pen (Oct 17, 2013)

I have a little of the hard going....




The behemoth in the center is a 13 gallon


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## fbelec (Oct 17, 2013)

yikes that 13 gallon fermenter must weigh a few


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## Highbeam (Oct 17, 2013)

fbelec said:


> has anyone tried the redds apple ale? i have not but i'm interested in cider with the beer yeast. what kind of flavors does a ale yeast vs. champagne yeast have? you are saying that a champagne yeast tends to have a dryer finished product? highbeam what did the brown sugar do for taste? i just thinking out loud but thinking of seeing if i could come up with a apple pie in a bottle. maybe i'm reaching?


 
I have tried several brands of commercial cider, some are quite good. What I find gross is beers with flavors added to mimic hard cider. Similar to a Mikes Hard Lemonade they are fake and taste fake.

Each yeast type makes a different flavor in the finished product. Champagne yeast tastes like champagne. I don't like wine or champ so I go for the ale yeasts. There are many to choose from and even some actual cider yeasts that are "bread" for cider.

All of the regular yeasts will ferment to dry. Dry is defined as 1.000 SG which means all the fermentable sugar is gone. There is a little more to it but just know that real cider with regular yeast will ferment to dry. You have to backsweeten to regain sweetness. However, you need to be smart about this since additional sugar is more food and the yeast will just eat it if it can. Yes, this can create bottlebombs.

I like caramelized stuff. Brown sugar brings a slight bit of that to the party in a very predictable way. People also use honey. Cider is a natural type thing.

You can mimic apple pie but you'll just need cinnamon. I like things simple so I am not a spicer, at least not in my beverages. You'll have 5 gallons to drink so perhaps you should season your beverage by the glass. It is not good to make a mistake on 5 gallons of awesomeness.

Oh and I again verified last night that OG of 1.075 makes an overly alcoholic beverage. Yes, it tastes great but way too much effect on my balance and sleep. It would be better to have a lower ABV so that you can enjoy a full glass and still function.


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## Retired Guy (Oct 17, 2013)

Just the opposite for me, always thought it was the fiber.



webbie said:


> Damn stuff binds me up something fierce!
> 
> 
> But it's hard to resist.
> ...


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## begreen (Oct 17, 2013)

Nice load of brew Pen. Are you using yeast this year or still going au naturel? How did last yrs cider turn out?


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## pen (Oct 17, 2013)

begreen said:


> Nice load of brew Pen. Are you using yeast this year or still going au naturel? How did last yrs cider turn out?



I only went au natural once..... and I'll never do it again.  That year it was raw cider and honey.  The product was great tasting but gave me wicked heart burn (I NEVER had heart burn before this stuff regardless of what I consumed).  With various friends trying that product, all found it palatable, none had heart burn other than me, some loved it, others thought it wasn't bad, none hated it.  

After that I switched to using UV pasteurized instead of raw cider, and added my own yeast, as well as honey and white sugar.  Since then, the product has had a better apple flavor and zero heart burn concerns.  

The the au natural stuff, the dry folks loved it, with the changes, the dry folks still loved it, but the sweet folks all loved the additional apple flavor and didn't notice it was dry.'

That's my experience,,,so long as one tries, one will have fun too


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## fbelec (Oct 17, 2013)

thanks highbeam. i need to try this. i have had beer bottle bombs. not pleasant. at one point one exploded and sat on the kitchen floor for hours before it got cleaned up. smelt like a old bar for a few after that. does the brown sugar leave a taste or is it just for abv. i too like sweet. i'm not a dry drinker. how much podwered sugar would you put in for 5 gal. and when do you put it in? in the beginning or after it ferments out?


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## Ehouse (Oct 18, 2013)

begreen said:


> I have been using champagne yeast. It is very aggressive and results in a light, dry cider. It comes out like a nice Prosseco once back carbonated. Everyone that has tasted it likes it a lot. Still, I'd like to make up a batch using a less aggressive English ale yeast for comparison. I've read that will result in a less dry cider without being too sweet.




My neighbor came up with a batch like that by accident, tasted like fine champagne.  Must have been some rogue yeast got in somehow.


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2013)

fbelec said:


> thanks highbeam. i need to try this. i have had beer bottle bombs. not pleasant. at one point one exploded and sat on the kitchen floor for hours before it got cleaned up. smelt like a old bar for a few after that. does the brown sugar leave a taste or is it just for abv. i too like sweet. i'm not a dry drinker. how much podwered sugar would you put in for 5 gal. and when do you put it in? in the beginning or after it ferments out?


The sweetener goes in after the ferment is done. If you use sugar you will need to kill the yeast first.


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## Highbeam (Oct 18, 2013)

fbelec said:


> thanks highbeam. i need to try this. i have had beer bottle bombs. not pleasant. at one point one exploded and sat on the kitchen floor for hours before it got cleaned up. smelt like a old bar for a few after that. does the brown sugar leave a taste or is it just for abv. i too like sweet. i'm not a dry drinker. how much podwered sugar would you put in for 5 gal. and when do you put it in? in the beginning or after it ferments out?


 
I can't say if the brown sugar adds much flavor. I've always used it. I sure as heck can't taste the brown sugar over the cider. It is mostly for ABV.

You can't just add sugar for sweetness. The yeast will eat it. To backsweeten you'll need to either add non-fermentable sugar, stop the yeast and then add sugar, or simply add the does of sugar to each glass. Commercial ciders kill the yeast and then add sugar. With my powdered sugar experiment I used a pretty healthy amount, about the same as you would use for coffee in each glass.

Don't just add sugar to 5 gallons of live cider or the yeast will go crazy, eat it, and you'll just end up with more alcohol.

If adding non-fermentable sugar like Xylitol to the 5 gallon batch, I used 1-2 cups per 5 gallons with great success. I added after fermentation before bottling. Not sure if the yeast would be affected by non-fermentable sugar.

The dry cider is growing on me. It has a light mouth feel.


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2013)

Here's a shot of the finished product. It was so good I sat down to enjoy the fire with a glass. The cat seeing an empty lap quickly got comfortable too.


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## Highbeam (Oct 18, 2013)

Very yellow and clear. Did you add any fining agents or filter it? Was your raw cider clear like that? Mine is always quite cloudy which I like but I wonder why yours is different.


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## fbelec (Oct 19, 2013)

thanks guys. begreen nice looking beverage


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## begreen (Oct 19, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Very yellow and clear. Did you add any fining agents or filter it? Was your raw cider clear like that? Mine is always quite cloudy which I like but I wonder why yours is different.



I added pectin in the beginning, but that is all. Multiple rackings are what I used to get a clear product. It started out looking cloudy just like Pen's picture shows. I'm getting ready to rack last week's batch today to get it off of the lees. Then it will sit in the carboy for a month. Then I rack it again to leave any sediments behind and bottle right away (with back carbonation). 

BTW, it's interesting to see how this cider ages. It tastes more applely now than it did 6 months ago and the color is a bit more golden.


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## 1750 (Oct 19, 2013)

begreen said:


> I added pectin in the beginning, but that is all. Multiple rackings are what I used to get a clear product. It started out looking cloudy just like Pen's picture shows. I'm getting ready to rack last week's batch today to get it off of the lees. Then it will sit in the carboy for a month. Then I rack it again to leave any sediments behind and bottle right away (with back carbonation).
> 
> BTW, it's interesting to see how this cider ages. It tastes more applely now than it did 6 months ago and the color is a bit more golden.


The color and clarity are really nice.   The clarity particularly is surprising to me. 

We use Irish moss when brewing beer as clarifier to coagulate the solids.   Does pectin do that with your cider?

Do you add a sugar with your yeast, or do you get all the fermentables you need from the cider? 

If anyone has a link to a straight-up hard cider recipe they like a lot, I'd appreciate the reference.


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## Highbeam (Oct 19, 2013)

1750 said:


> If anyone has a link to a straight-up hard cider recipe they like a lot, I'd appreciate the reference.


 
The beauty of cider and particularly straight-up cider is that it is just that, cider. The only thing you can do is change apples or yeast. My favorite batch so far was with 100% honeycrisp apple cider and nottingham ale yeast. Of course, I added some brown sugar to get to my desired OG but the apple is what makes the cider.

I am not fond of racking beer or cider. I don't mind cloudiness in either. It doesn't taste any different but sitting on the lees for an extended period may introduce some funk. The cider does get better with time.

BG, you're still bottling right? Add corn sugar to carbonate?


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## begreen (Oct 19, 2013)

It's said that some of the least tasty apples make the best ciders. At this point I am too much of a neophyte to verify that claim, but I have done several taste offs with local cider producers and agree that some of their ciders are more complex with a richer bottom. That's why I added some other, more tart local cider to mine this year. We'll see. I am a month or so from bottling.

Sitting on the yeast makes that taste more prominent. Getting it off the lees helps create a more pure apple flavor. Yes, I back carbonate with corn sugar. I picked up some xylitol and am going to try adding that to one gallon of cider to see if I like the sweeter product or not. It's made from birch bark and less sweet than regular sugar and doesn't have a chemical aftertaste like saccharine or aspartane. I'll let you know how that experiment turns out.


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## begreen (Oct 19, 2013)

1750, this may be more info than you want, but it's a pretty educational site on cider making:
http://www.howtomakehardcider.com/index.html


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## 1750 (Oct 19, 2013)

begreen said:


> 1750, this may be more info than you want, but it's a pretty educational site on cider making:
> http://www.howtomakehardcider.com/index.html


That's exactly what I was looking for, begreen.  I am always inclined toward more information than less.  

Thanks!


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## 1750 (Oct 20, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> The beauty of cider and particularly straight-up cider is that it is just that, cider. The only thing you can do is change apples or yeast. My favorite batch so far was with 100% honeycrisp apple cider and nottingham ale yeast. Of course, I added some brown sugar to get to my desired OG but the apple is what makes the cider.
> 
> I am not fond of racking beer or cider. I don't mind cloudiness in either. It doesn't taste any different but sitting on the lees for an extended period may introduce some funk. The cider does get better with time.
> 
> BG, you're still bottling right? Add corn sugar to carbonate?


Thanks for your suggestions.  

I've racked and not racked beer.  I don't mind cloudiness, but I like the more subtle flavors I get when I get it off the trub.


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## Highbeam (Oct 20, 2013)

1750 said:


> Thanks for your suggestions.
> 
> I've racked and not racked beer.  I don't mind cloudiness, but I like the more subtle flavors I get when I get it off the trub.


 
Great to experiment and refine your tastes. My latest trick with beer is brew-to-belly in one week with the pale ale type recipes. No racking. With kegs it won't hurt if the yeast aren't quite done so long as they've eaten enough to develop the desired finished product.


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## fbelec (Oct 21, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Great to experiment and refine your tastes. My latest trick with beer is brew-to-belly in one week with the pale ale type recipes. No racking. With kegs it won't hurt if the yeast aren't quite done so long as they've eaten enough to develop the desired finished product.



arn't you afraid of making bottle bombs? i've made beer that wasn't even close to being bottled after 2 weeks sometimes 3 weeks.


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## Highbeam (Oct 21, 2013)

fbelec said:


> arn't you afraid of making bottle bombs? i've made beer that wasn't even close to being bottled after 2 weeks sometimes 3 weeks.


 
I switched to corny kegs this summer. These are 5 gallons, stainless steel, with a high pressure blow off (140psi) just in case. Bottling takes too much time and effort, not only in the actual bottling process but also time for the yeast to carbonate naturally. Then you get that nasty gunk on the bottom of every bottle.

I've toured the Georgetown brewery several times (Manny's pale ale, and Lucille IPA) and their famous Manny's is a one week brew to belly. It inspired me to rush the process for fresh beer without waiting.


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## northwinds (Oct 23, 2013)

It's been a few years since I made hard cider, but I always used Wyeast 1056 to get a sweeter cider without sweetening at the end with sugar.  One of the attributes of this strain of yeast is that the yeast die when the alcohol reaches a lower level of alcohol than a yeast like Nottingham.  The other way to avoid sweetening at the end is to use an ale yeast and then cold crash the cider.  Ale yeast will not continue to ferment at low temperatures.  Works very well with Corny kegs because you force carbonate anyway.  

BeGreen, maybe I missed it in the thread, but what type of cider maker do you have?   I'm going to pull the trigger one of these years and buy my own.  My father-in-law has one, but we're not the best of friends.


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## Highbeam (Oct 23, 2013)

northwinds said:


> other way to avoid sweetening at the end is to use an ale yeast and then cold crash the cider.  Ale yeast will not continue to ferment at low temperatures.  Works very well with Corny kegs because you force carbonate anyway.
> .


 
I wonder if this is the best solution. I'll have to research cold crashing but the first thing I do after transfering to the kegs is to stick them in the fridge at 35 degrees and pour the gas to them. That would stop an active fermentation?


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## pen (Oct 23, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I wonder if this is the best solution. I'll have to research cold crashing but the first thing I do after transfering to the kegs is to stick them in the fridge at 35 degrees and pour the gas to them. That would stop an active fermentation?



I always make mine go cold before bottling to help clarify at the end.  With the yeast I use, they will keep munching even in the cold.  I like it as alcoholic as I can get them to take it.  

I like my cider so that 2 good glasses gets the job done, 3 is over the line, 4 is right out.

pen


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## northwinds (Oct 23, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I wonder if this is the best solution. I'll have to research cold crashing but the first thing I do after transfering to the kegs is to stick them in the fridge at 35 degrees and pour the gas to them. That would stop an active fermentation?



Yes.  Here's an explanation/discussion.  Pay particular attention to Kevin's post.  I store mine refrigerated, but he claims that he stores at room temperature after cold crashing/racking. 

It does make sense.  

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65723


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## Highbeam (Oct 23, 2013)

northwinds said:


> Yes.  Here's an explanation/discussion.  Pay particular attention to Kevin's post.  I store mine refrigerated, but he claims that he stores at room temperature after cold crashing/racking.
> 
> It does make sense.
> 
> http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=65723


 
That would be a great way to reduce brewing time and also maintain some sweetness. What do you suggest for a target FG to maintain a "sweet" or commercial level of sweetness in the crashed cider? I'm going to try this on my next batch. Which might be awhile due to the high ABV of the current one.

I just found a source of year round fresh pressed non-pasteurized cider. They buy/store whole apples until weekly pressing.


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## northwinds (Oct 23, 2013)

Almost all of the retail cider around us is pasteurized.  There's one place that has fresh cider in the fall unpasteurized.  $7/gallon and kept in a cooler.

I like my cider to finish at 1.015.  The Beer Judge certification program has categorized cider this way:


*Dry*: below 0.9% residual sugar. This corresponds to a final specific gravity of under 1.002.
*Medium*: in the range between dry and sweet (0.9% to 4% residual sugar, final gravity 1.002 to 1.012). Sometimes characterized as either 'off-dry' or 'semi-sweet.'
*Sweet*: above 4% residual sugar, roughly equivalent to a final gravity of over 1.012.


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## pen (Oct 23, 2013)

northwinds said:


> Almost all of the retail cider around us is pasteurized.



I never buy raw cider anymore if I can get UV pasteurized.


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## begreen (Oct 23, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I just found a source of year round fresh pressed non-pasteurized cider. They buy/store whole apples until weekly pressing.



Hmm, that sounds interesting. Is it within a reasonable range of Tacoma?


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## Highbeam (Oct 24, 2013)

begreen said:


> Hmm, that sounds interesting. Is it within a reasonable range of Tacoma?


 
Closer to Olympia, I can get a location for you, it's an actual business. They sell pasteurized or non-pasteurized and press each weekend. No mexican fruit, I guess that's a big deal? 5$ per gallon sold in gallon milk type jugs. I don't know how they pasteurize whether it is with UV, heat, or chemicals.


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2013)

Bottling day. I think this is going to be a good one. It's clear and tasty. After siphoning it into a bucket for the final racking we ended up with 56 bottles of brew. Should be ready for imbibing around Christmas.


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## 1750 (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks great!

See if you can figure out a way to post a link so we can all sample the brew!


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2013)

LOL, I'll try virtual straws.


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