# All Nighter Stove Works "Big Moe"



## DSSR (Dec 8, 2012)

I am a first time poster but long time wood burner.
This wood stove was used to heat my parents house over 30 years ago. Since my parents don't use it they asked me to please remove it from their basement. This thing was so heavy I was afraid rolling it up the old basement steps along with the weight of the people moving the stove could collapse the stairs so we removed the firebrick and the board between the brick and the inside of the stove. The 3/4" board crumbled as it was removed and 5 of the firebrick were cracked. I am in the tree and landscape business and keep our equipment in a 70' x 50' pole barn with only portable propane heater with a concrete floor and 15' ceiling. Make a long story short, we are installing the Big Moe in the barn. The firebrick were easy to replace but the board that crumbled is proving much harder to find. Any help would be appreciated. Here are a couple of pictures. Our local shop "The Woodburners,Inc" is helping me with the chimney as I will post pictures as we proceed with the installation. All help and comments are welcome. Thanks


----------



## coaly (Dec 8, 2012)

Welcome to the Forum,
Moved your thread from the Fisher Forum to where it may get someone familiar with the board you're looking for.

Never knew the All Nighter used something additional to bricks. Others use common firebrick 1 1/4" thick only, that seems to be enough protection.


----------



## begreen (Dec 9, 2012)

If this is insulated ceramic baffle board you can usually find some on eBay. Look under ceramic insulation. I saw some 1" material there last week which would be fine I would think. Or check kiln supply stores.


----------



## Speedle (Oct 12, 2015)

begreen said:


> If this is insulated ceramic baffle board you can usually find some on eBay. Look under ceramic insulation. I saw some 1" material there last week which would be fine I would think. Or check kiln supply stores.



Hi All,

I know this thread is loooong dead, but I cannot find information on the above anywhere. Google searches on "All Nighter fire brick" end up leading me back here. I wanted to see if anyone has any further information on any baffle board that is supposed to lay beneath the floor bricks in All Nighter fireboxes? If so, can anyone send me a few links of what kind of replacement would suffice?

I'm readying my "new" All Nighter setup and need to start burning soon: Stove is installed, have a mantle shield and hearth extender (trashed old insert setup), bricks are on standby to be cut and placed. I want to ensure that I pick up any needed ceramic board off of eBay. When I pulled the old bricks if there was anything underneath it chipped up/disintegrated as I removed them.

Also, any recommendations on the easiest way to cut the front bricks, any mortar needed or tricks to getting the bricks in for these old beasts?

Any info is much appreciated.


----------



## coaly (Oct 13, 2015)

Depends on your floor. Solid cement or noncombustible fireplace hearth is fine with just brick. When you set any stove on floor protection over combustible flooring, go by NFPA 211 floor protection. (it gives minimum leg height)
I would make the legs at least 6 inches high or set on blocks / bricks to make the required 6 inch clearance under it if using only fire brick inside. NFPA 211 has a section on floor clearance for different stove heights. Since these were made to be very low to clear mantels and fit into hearths, I'd imagine an asbestos material was added under regular firebrick.

Cutting firebrick is very easy with a masonry blade in a circular saw, or diamond blade for masonry or tile. Score a line and snap, or cut completely through. They are soft and cut easier than a regular brick. Allow the first couple fires to dry the new brick. Moisture from manufacture is present and must be evaporated before normal heat output is realized from any stove.

Edit; Once any original material is removed, the stove would loose its UL rating since it is no longer complete "as tested". I can only give you contact information for the manufacturer. That is as far as I'm willing to go with information on this manufacturer due to prior confrontation.


----------



## Speedle (Oct 13, 2015)

coaly said:


> Depends on your floor. Solid cement or noncombustible fireplace hearth is fine with just brick. When you set any stove on floor protection over combustible flooring, go by NFPA 211 floor protection. (it gives minimum leg height)
> I would make the legs at least 6 inches high or set on blocks / bricks to make the required 6 inch clearance under it if using only fire brick inside. NFPA 211 has a section on floor clearance for different stove heights. Since these were made to be very low to clear mantels and fit into hearths, I'd imagine an asbestos material was added under regular firebrick.
> 
> Cutting firebrick is very easy with a masonry blade in a circular saw, or diamond blade for masonry or tile. Score a line and snap, or cut completely through. They are soft and cut easier than a regular brick. Allow the first couple fires to dry the new brick. Moisture from manufacture is present and must be evaporated before normal heat output is realized from any stove.
> ...




Hi Coaly,

Thanks for the reply and tips, especially what with me being a member of an ahem "imitator" stove family (Grew up using one and am thus biased, plus there are more kicking around CL out here than Fishers for sure).

Right now my height's at 4.5". Raising it might necessitate messing with the liner, and I'm unsure if that's worthwhile. Plus I only have about 3" of clearance from the top of the stove to the top of the fireplace opening (not counting the back lip). The majority of the stove is in the fireplace then emerges to noncombustible hearth bricks which then gives way to the extender pad I bought. The front legs fall near where the pad meets the hearth (they are the same thickness, 1/2"). The pad is tested to UL1618 with an R.Rating of 1.56 (not really educated on these numbers). With the legs at 4.5" plus the half inch hearth/pad thickness bringing me to 5" you think I'll be good with only bricks in my firebox?

Also, I think I recall finding in another thread that the board might've been asbestos-based. Additionally, I'm still unsure if there was any distinct material beneath them in mine (I have one of the smaller Moe's) as everything crumbled as it was removed. I did not think about it losing the UL rating once I took the cracked, broken bricks out. It seemed like what I needed to do to make the investment worthwhile, you know? I understand where you're coming from, perhaps you could send me contact info for anyone who'd have further info (I know All Nighter is long gone) or start a convo/drop me a PM with any additional thoughts you may have.

Again, the help is much appreciated, I can't wait to get burning.


----------



## coaly (Oct 13, 2015)

The UL listed Installation Instructions do not specify a minimum r value for floor protection. They only require "3/8 min. thickness non-combustible floor mat".
Normally the standard specification used was for millboard, which is no longer available. (probably the material under brick? It was very common then) The Instructions do not give any required values. Normally C-Factor = thermal conductance, or k-factor = thermal conductivity are given that can be converted to r value with formulas when r is not given. Your stove only requires the mat to extend 18 inches in front of door and 8 inches to the sides. UL testing is with movable panels with thermocouples to measure surface temperature above ambient air temperature when test fired.  Max. surface temperature dictates clearance to stove back, sides and bottom. So when you have an appliance no longer the same as when tested, it becomes unlisted. I'd go by the standard floor protection for unlisted stoves. I believe that section in NFPA 211 requires a minimum leg length of 6 inches and is why all other stoves are built to that standard. They must have been within limits with reduced clearance with whatever was used under the brick.

I can tell you a metal shield with 1 inch airspace between the stove bottom and shield keeps the floor much cooler and add that to my own unlisted stoves in use. Without the shield, the floor protector was uncomfortably hot. With shield, the floor stays cool in the center of stove. Huge difference and very easy to add.


----------

