# Desperate new member seeks professional help, Jotul QT gas Sacramento, CA



## Purzell (Sep 17, 2016)

Good morning everyone:

I have been a long time user of this forum but never joined. I am finally out of ideas (mostly skill) and really need a recommendation for a professional to come try to fix my stove for once and for all. 
I will tell you all my story, many parts of which will sound very familiar from other threads. I have read through most of the relevant threads and although the answer is probably there, I just don't have the skill to address it myself (nor did the past two technicians who came to my house, at not-insignificant expense.) It just seems to be the kind of thing that "messing about with" will just make worse. 

I have a Jotul QT gas stove which was purchased about 10 years ago. 
When the stove was purchased it was installed as a direct vent through a wall. There was a double wall tube running out the back into the wall, and it worked great. After running it this way with no issues for almost six years (save for some aesthetic complaints regarding the flame size being small), we moved and the stove sat unused for about two years. The house we moved into had a standard brick fireplace (wood box?) with chimney.

Last year we wanted to run the stove in the new house, which has a regular chimney. I had the stove installed by a guy recommended by our local fireplace shop (also where the stove was purchased that 8 years ago). 

The guy who came from Custom Fireside didn't want to do the job because he said the stove would look ugly sticking out of the brick surround and wanted me to buy trim piece to put around it etc. He ended up doing the install (without the shroud/trim) but I was unhappy about how far the stove stuck out of the firebox. The issue was the double wall straight tube (about 14" long)  that stuck out of the back of the stove, which originally went through the wall in my old house. It was still installed on the stove and the installer from CF said it was part of the stove and couldn't come off. So essentially the stove was standing in front of the firebox with lots of black pipe visible behind. But he did the install, leaving this long pipe, installing an L-shaped pipe, then into a double wall chimney pipe through my brick chimney. 

NOTE: I never ran the stove for any amount of time at this point, we just turned it on to see if it worked. It was summer. 

Unhappy with the look of the install, I hired another independent installer to take a look. This guy is the one who originally plumbed in the gas line for the stove. He immediately removed the double wall pipe that was sticking out behind the stove, stating that this pipe was NOT part of the stove but a leftover part of the through-wall install, and that the new L-pipe coming out of the back now was double walled and accomplished the same thing. So this guy removed the extra length of pipe and put it back together. I much preferred the look at this point as the stove sat further back in the firebox and looked nicer. 

I began to use the stove. It would run for about twenty  minutes and then go out. I called yet another technician. The guy on the phone sounded very competent. The guy who showed up, however, told me he had never heard of Jotul but that "all gas stoves operate the same." I became concerned. He recommended the replacement of the "sit top mount pilot assembly" and told me I could do it myself. It was "bolt on." I did it. The stove seemed to work.

It became windy. The stove would go out when it got windy. I began to believe that I have a venting issue. 
The windy weather stopped. The stove would go out when I ran it for about a half hour. I began to believe that I have a bad thermocouple again...I ran it without the door glass one day for about a half hour and it never went out. I began to believe it was the vent after all....

I ran it this morning on a perfect pleasant day. The flames got smaller and smaller (it ran for about twenty minutes to a half hour) and eventually it went out. It makes a loud click when it turns off. 

OK, I apologize that was a very long winded story. I have reached the point where I really need a good technician to come and do all those multimeter tests that I am certain from my reading of this forum, need to be done. I need someone to look at the installation of  the chimney and tell me if the venting is correct. I am way over my head and I don't know how to do this stuff. I hoped to lay out all the details in that long story. 

Can anyone direct me to a really competent technician in the Sacramento, CA area please? And I apologize if anyone had better luck with, or works for the place I mentioned above. But my experience was very poor with them and I don't intend to call them again.


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## Lake Girl (Sep 17, 2016)

Pulled up the manual out of curiosity ... 
I know zero about natural gas stoves but trying to rule out simple things that could be overlooked...

Is the exhaust restrictor plate in place?  Necessary for vertical vent installs... pages 8 & 9  Seems your problems started when you switched from horizontal to vertical venting.

Was the install done using a manometer to test your inlet and manifold pressures? page 16 of the manual.

Let us know how you make out


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## Purzell (Sep 17, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Pulled up the manual out of curiosity ... file:///C:/Users/Acer/Downloads/GF100%20(1).pdf
> I know zero about natural gas stoves but trying to rule out simple things that could be overlooked...
> 
> Is the exhaust restrictor plate in place?  Necessary for vertical vent installs... pages 8 & 9  Seems your problems started when you switched from horizontal to vertical venting.
> ...



Thanks for your reply.
I can't tell if the exhaust restrictor is in place without taking apart the inside of the stove. You can't see it just by looking into the stove. I am loathe to start disassembling the stove before I have a pro check it out, in case I bodge something else. 

But this could be a simple answer....so I will consider figuring out how to disassemble the stove unless someone loudly says NO. 

I don't know about the manometer question. I didn't watch the installer because I honestly wouldn't have known what he was doing. I would have just gotten in the way.


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## Lake Girl (Sep 17, 2016)

Sorry, just noticed the link didn't work ... http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/discontinued-wood-stoves  there is an icon on top for gas stoves and the QT shows up.  Manual can be downloaded from there.  Page 8 text with photo... removal of glass and log set; two sheet metal screws should be in place but likely you no longer have the restrictor plate (if you ever did ... stove shop that originally installed likely turfed it since it was a horizontal install).  Restrictor plate required for vertical vent install due to stronger draft...

Take a look at the manual - only you can determine if you have the skill.  If you do your own maintenance on the firebox, you already do this.  Always turn off gas before working on the stove...


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## DAKSY (Sep 17, 2016)

Sorry to chime in late here. The lack of restrictor plate MAY cause issues on a vertical vented stove, but if it runs with the glass off, then it sounds to me that the installer has the intake & exhaust tubes mixed up. I'd try reversing them.  You'll probably need a screw gun with a magnetic 1/4 hex tip.


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## Purzell (Sep 17, 2016)

DAKSY said:


> Sorry to chime in late here. The lack of restrictor plate MAY cause issues on a vertical vented stove, but if it runs with the glass off, then it sounds to me that the installer has the intake & exhaust tubes mixed up. I'd try reversing them.  You'll probably need a screw gun with a magnetic 1/4 hex tip.




Thank you Daksy and Lake Girl.

OK, I'm going to open it up to look for the restrictor plate but the two screws doesn't seem to be the only thing keeping me from the back of the unit. There's a full angled piece of metal that is the back of the "fire box" in front of where that restrictor plate will be, so I will have to get that off.

Now Daksy, where are the two tubes? Are they inside the vertical part of the chimney? Because coming out the back of this stove is just one L shaped tube, leading into another vertical tube, then a large round flat piece shaped like a cake layer is right at the hole into the chimney. I assume there are tube(s) above that, and not sure how that round piece is attached up there. I'm guessing since my chimney used to burn wood there is an open position and it's hooked onto that somehow...


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## DAKSY (Sep 17, 2016)

The coaxial (4"pipe within a 6-5/8"pipe) should be attached to a co-axial to co-linear adapter. 
The co-linear 3" vent tubes are attached to the adapter, & run all the way to the cap.


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## Purzell (Sep 17, 2016)

DAKSY said:


> The coaxial (4"pipe within a 6-5/8"pipe) should be attached to a co-axial to co-linear adapter.
> The co-linear 3" vent tubes are attached to the adapter, & run all the way to the cap.



This is what it looks like behind my stove. You can just see the silver tubes that run up the chimney, above the cake layer pan shaped thing. I'm guessing this is where you thing the are crossed?
Everything below that cap is one solid tube.


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## DAKSY (Sep 17, 2016)

Hmm. That is a different component than I am used to seeing, but, yes that should be the adapter. If that is totally inaccessible, you can also reverse
them at the under side of the chimney cap. The problem with having the co-linear venting reversed, is that the HOT exhaust gases exit the cap lower than the COLD intake & that is a no-no. The exhaust will rise & get sucked back into the intake. The flames will die from oxygen depletion. The exhaust has to exit the top of the cap.


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## Lake Girl (Sep 17, 2016)

DAKSY, makes sense now...  Makes it easier if you have first hand experience.  Haven't been near a natural gas stove since I was a kid ... being a kid, I never paid much mind.


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## Heatsource (Sep 29, 2016)

if reversing flues doesn't help...
inner liner probably not sealed with milpac, draft issues


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Heatsource might be right. The old Straight shaped color had a red glue like sealant connecting it to the pipe through the wall. The new L pipe was just screwed on, no sealer. I'm going to take it apart and put the sealer in...as I am assuming the red sealer was the Milpac you refer to. This is the easier of the two options( milpac or reversing flues) because I can't get on my roof without climbing gear and the bottom has very little room to work...


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## Lake Girl (Oct 1, 2016)

Have you tried getting a restrictor plate?


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Now that I know about the sealant I plan to take it all apart and also find out if the restrictor plate is on there. I can't tell because there is an exhaust baffle (per the parts breakdown that's what it's called) in the way and I haven't disassembled it yet. I can't see past the exhaust baffle and will have to take apart the whole inside of the stove. 

Regarding the pipe to the rear which is L shaped...it goes right into a short section of pipe that appears to be permanently part of the stove. The L shaped pipe doesn't have the two part construction that the old straight pipe had...with a male areato put the sealant on...I'm assuming I have the wrong L pipe and need a different one?  Or will just sealing it do the trick.

I'll post some pics as I take it apart


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Oh yeah, if restrictor plate is missing not sure where to buy. Internet search found none. Jotul part 129344 I think...


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## Lake Girl (Oct 1, 2016)

Not sure of the vendor but it is available $11 :
http://www.stoveking.com/12934492-jotul-exhaust-restrictor-p-199499.html


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## DAKSY (Oct 1, 2016)

Purzell said:


> Oh yeah, if restrictor plate is missing not sure where to buy. Internet search found none. Jotul part 129344 I think...


 
Any hearthshop that sells Jotul stoves or Jotul stove parts can order it for you.


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## DAKSY (Oct 1, 2016)

Purzell said:


> Now that I know about the sealant I plan to take it all apart and also find out if the restrictor plate is on there. I can't tell because there is an exhaust baffle (per the parts breakdown that's what it's called) in the way and I haven't disassembled it yet. I can't see past the exhaust baffle and will have to take apart the whole inside of the stove.
> 
> Regarding the pipe to the rear which is L shaped...it goes right into a short section of pipe that appears to be permanently part of the stove. The L shaped pipe doesn't have the two part construction that the old straight pipe had...with a male areato put the sealant on...I'm assuming I have the wrong L pipe and need a different one?  Or will just sealing it do the trick.
> 
> I'll post some pics as I take it apart



Please post that pic. If you don't have a co-axial piece of DV pipe in the system, that's the problem. You are sucking the exhaust back into the intake.


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Ok I remembered incorrectly. The L pipe is coaxial but there is no sealant on the male part. You can see the sealant inside from the old pipe inside the stove. 
Also I can't feel any restrictor plate inside. I took off the exhaust baffle but can't figure out how to get behind it. But I can reach behind it and feel the hole with no plate over it.
So I am off to Home Depot to get the sealant for starters...any other advice?
If after this it is a matter of the two tubes up the chimney being reversed I'm kind of in trouble because I will have to have that dealt with from the roof.


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Inside stove


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## Purzell (Oct 1, 2016)

Update: the sealant is in. Now we wait.


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## Purzell (Oct 3, 2016)

Update: since putting in the sealant it has run for several hours without shutting off! I think/hope this was the issue and I am so glad Heatsource thought of it. And thank you all for your help with this.

I should add though I still do not know what the deal with the restrictor plate is. I am wondering if maybe this stove actually doesn't have one, because I can't see anyway to get to it.


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## DAKSY (Oct 3, 2016)

*From page 8 of the manual...
Vent Restriction*
The Nordic QT is shipped with an Exhaust Restrictor Plate
which prevents overly strong draft that can cause poor
combustion and weak flame picture.
*The Exhaust
Restrictor should be installed on any stove using a
vertical termination or snorkel termination.*
Additional restriction may be needed depending the
overall vent height. Most vent manufacturer’s offer inline
vent restrictors that install between two pipe
sections. Follow the vent manufacturer’s installation
instructions.
*Exhaust Restrictor Plate*
:
1. Remove the glass panel and log set.
2. Using a 1/4” nut driver, remove the two sheet metal
screws in the rear wall of the firebox below the
exhaust hole. See fig. 5.
3. Install the restrictor plate over the lower half of the
exhaust hole and secure the plate using the same
screws that were just removed.
4. Reinstall logs and glass.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 3, 2016)

Glad to hear you can actually use the unit now!  Let us know if you try to install the restrictor plate and what, if any, change it makes.


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## Heatsource (Oct 3, 2016)

glad to hear that might have been the solution


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## Purzell (Oct 4, 2016)

Heatsource said:


> glad to hear that might have been the solution



I ran the stove for three hours tonight without it shutting off once. So I'm going to called it fixed for now.

I am still thinking about the restrictor plate. I took apart the inside of the stove again and I just can't get behind the wall that the exhaust baffle was screwed into. There are no more visible screws inside.  It seems that I would have to take apart the backside of the enameled portion of the stove to get there.

So for now I leave well enough alone. It's working for the first time in months! And for that I am grateful.


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## Purzell (Oct 14, 2016)

OK you guys. I have been using the stove since my last post and it's been staying lit and producing nice ambiance and heat, so that issue is resolved. But the flame picture is a bit anemic and I can't stop thinking about the restrictor plate. I have taken it apart inside one more time and I can't seem to figure out how to get past that wall of metal in the back. It's hard to see it in the photo I posted above but essentially it is solid metal to almost the top inside then it has two square areas cut out on either side of the top, so it makes sort of an upside down fat T shape in the back wall. Over this is an angled piece of metal that goes from the back wall to the top of the stove. Reaching behind this I can feel the hole that is the inside of the chimney hole, but there's no sheet metal screws below this hole, that I can feel. No way to see. There is nothing inside that looks like the picture on page 8 of the manual. If anyone can advise?


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## DAKSY (Oct 14, 2016)

What do you mean by "anemic?" Can you post a pic?
Have you re-positioned the air shutter?


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## Purzell (Oct 14, 2016)

Thanks for your reply. I have repositioned the air shutter in quarter inch increments over a period of time. All the way to the back gives me the best result that you see here.


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## DAKSY (Oct 14, 2016)

Is this burning LP or NG? I didn't see anywhere in this thread which fuel you have.
With LP the air shutter should be nearly all the way open.
With NG it should be closed down some, but generally not less than 1/4".
Generally, you will get better, more yellow flames after about 20 minutes.


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## Purzell (Oct 14, 2016)

Sorry,  it is burning natural gas. 
I have messed around with the air shutter at about quarter inch increments but I will close it about a quarter inch from full open and see what happens. Thank you.


DAKSY said:


> Is this burning LP or NG? I didn't see anywhere in this thread which fuel you have.
> With LP the air shutter should be nearly all the way open.
> With NG it should be closed down some, but generally not less than 1/4".
> Generally, you will get better, more yellow flames after about 20 minutes.


orty it


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## DAKSY (Oct 14, 2016)

Purzell said:


> Sorry,  it is burning natural gas.
> I have messed around with the air shutter at about quarter inch increments but I will close it about a quarter inch from full open and see what happens. Thank you.


 
You want it to be 1/4" from FULL CLOSED with NG.


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## Purzell (Oct 15, 2016)

Ok. Today it was working fine for about an hour. Then the pilot light went out. It has done this one other time since the sealant fix but I gave it fluke status. It's breezy and raining outside...not too cold.
I haven't resolved the restrictor plate issue but I have a new question:  should there be metal tape or Milpac sealant on the top of the L shaped pipe too? The part that goes into the chimney? I only put it on the part that goes into the stove. If so...I'm gonna have a heck of a time getting it in there now that the bottom is sealed onto the stove. Could I still have draft issues?
Ideas? Restrictor plate? Something else?


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## DAKSY (Oct 16, 2016)

If you have a restrictor plate issue, it will be obvious to tell.
Watch your pilot flames. Are they steady, or are they agitated?
Agitation will cause the pilot to move off the T-couple & if the milliVolts
drop to the mid-20s, the pilot will be shut off by the gas valve.
The restrictor plate slows the flow of INTO the firebox preventing pilot
flame agitation. Read you manual again & see where the restrictor 
plates are attached. You should not have to remove anything but 
the logset.


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## Purzell (Oct 16, 2016)

The restrictor plate is just not visible with just the logset out. Take a look at my photo above with the logset out and the exhaust baffle removed. Looking at the manual it seems that the restrictor plate goes on the inside back of the stove. In my stove I can't get to that as far as I can see.
As for the pilot flame,  it flickers but doesn't seem to blow around.
But it's windy today and it went out again.


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## DAKSY (Oct 16, 2016)

The entire frame around your burner should lift right out, including the step at the rear.
The restrictor plate will mount behind that step.
If it doesn't come out or it's too difficult,
you could hand bend a small piece of aluminum into a U-shape
that will fit in around the rear & both sides of the pilot assembly & is just a little
higher than the pilot assembly, that will probably do the trick.


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2016)

Check it out guys: I'm going crazy. The inside of my stove just doesn't look like the inside of the one in the manual! So...where would a restrictor plate go?
I actually think I can hear the wind in the chimney and mostly that's when the stove goes out.
I also want to work on making that middle Wintergard you guys recommended, but does it go above the metal trim around the burner plate? Or inside it?


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2016)

Sorry...windguard


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## stovelark (Oct 21, 2016)

Actually, the Nordic and its sister Lillehammer were designed to be rear vented straight through the wall for best performance.  Vertical venting more than about 8 feet usually brought about issues, the restrictor plate will help keep more heat in the stove and not let it get sucked up the chimney.  Early stoves I believe also added a pilot shield around it to stabilize the pilot and stop nuisance dropouts...That venting set up still looks unusual, Going into a chimney you normally see a coaxial to collinear (Simpson Duravent GCL) as the transition piece from pipe to collinear 3 inch liners going up the chimney to the collinear back to coaxial top plate adaptor and high wind vertical cap.  I;m curious what the mv readings for the gas valve are??  The wind turbulence can certainly affect the gas valve operating normally and the flame picture.  Knowing gas stoves and its' venting setups and even setting up the logs/embers for the best flame picture is kind of an art.  Good luck, get a person who knows your stove.


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2016)

Thanks for your reply. In my old house the stove was vented through the wall. Since I've had it in this house I have had three different companies come out to work on it and spent almost as much as the stove cost in the first place to try to get it working. I haven't found a single person in Sacramento yet who knows how to work on a Jotul. That was why I posted this initially.  I may just be stuck with mediocre performance. But I don't still don't see where a restrictor plate would go if I was to use one, because the stove in the manual doesn't look like my stove on the inside. And I would like to build the wind guard, I just need to know if it goes over or under the burner plate.


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## stovelark (Oct 21, 2016)

Hi Purzell, a good gas tech is like a good auto mechanic-  it seems hard to find.  The exhaust restrictor plate goes under the 90 degree elbow coming off the back of your stove.  You had said access to the back was restrictive, I'm thinking that's why you are having problems finding it.  If you are venting vertical, you need it and the pilot shield installed.


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2016)

LIGHTBULB MOMENT!
 It goes on the back of the stove, on the outside! I have been trying to figure out where it goes on the inside. That's why I keep posting pictures of the inside of my stove.Yeah getting to the outside will be even harder now that I put that red sealant on the inside of the elbow. Have to think about that one.


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2016)

But wait, if it goes on the outside of the stove why is everyone telling me to remove my log set to access it?


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## stovelark (Oct 22, 2016)

Yes, I just looked at the manal too-  exh restrictor pn 129344 goes inside the stove on exhaust outlet. (page 8 of manual).  Its used to improve flame and heat characteristic and its required with vertical venting.  Good luck with her.


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## DAKSY (Oct 22, 2016)

I woud try to put two rectangular pieces of aluminum across the rear intakes. 
The two holes in your pic behind the burner pan are the intakes.
The are each about 3" in diameter, correct? Make each plate about 2" 
x 4" and set them on the floor of the firebox, covering the lower 1/2 of the intake vents.
Hold them in place with a small dab of RTV silicone. You won't need much & once it sets it'll hold.
Replace the sheet metal that covered them, & replace the glass. Light the unit & see how it performs.
 You won't need the logs installed to test the restrictors.
Hopefully this makes some sense...


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## Purzell (Oct 23, 2016)

Thanks Daksy, I will try this too if necessary. 
Right now I am trying out my home made pilot shield, cut out of a tomato sauce can. Interesting to learn the ignitor won't work if touching the metal can. Notched can shield, pilot actually seems stronger and flames slightly larger(?). Stove running pretty well; no outages yet.
I will give it a few days as weather is calm, but rain expected later in the week. 
If it starts to go out again I will try restricting the intakes Daksy-style.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 23, 2016)

stovelark said:


> Yes, I just looked at the manal too-  exh restrictor pn 129344 goes inside the stove on exhaust outlet. (page 8 of manual).  Its used to improve flame and heat characteristic and its required with vertical venting.  Good luck with her.


Mentioned the restrictor plate on post #2 but other issues have sidetracked the solution and there are no screw holes to secure plates to.


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## Purzell (Oct 23, 2016)

Thank you Lake Girl. The restrictor plate as a solution has never left the conversation. It's just that people kept pointing me to pages 8 and 9 in the manual for where it goes, and the images on those pages in the manual don't match up to my stove interior as far as I have been able to tell.  That's why I have been posting the pictures of the inside of my stove, to try to figure out where that restrictor plate goes. In the manual there is the one circular exhaust hole and you can't see that from the inside of my stove. if anyone disagrees that the pictures I have posted of my stove and the pictures of the manual don't match up, I wish someone would say so.  I think that's why Daksy is saying to restrict the intakes instead of the exhaust. 
 At this point I'm waiting to see if my homemade pilot shield is going to do the trick.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 23, 2016)

Have you tried contacting Jotul directly for an explanation of the difference while explaining all the errors you've found that techs haven't corrected ie. not real good techs...

Curious as to why the photos are different than the actual stove... something else missing?


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## stovelark (Oct 23, 2016)

Hi Purzell-  ok looked at your pix and realized you have a GF 100 Nordic DV II stove, found a manual online.  The restrictor plate part numbers are in the manual and pix confirm that is your stove.  Your flame pix look a little low, don't know if they were with the burner on hi or lo??  The restrictor plates go in the back and sides of your pan style burner.  Find the correct manual, it will all make sense to you.  You'll have part numbers too to order when you want.  Good luck, she's a solid stove, just gotta be set up correctly.


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## Purzell (Oct 30, 2016)

I want to report I have had no "shut-offs" since installing the tomato sauce can pilot shield.


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## Purzell (Oct 21, 2017)

Well...it’s been a year and my problems are back. Stove shuts off after running for about twenty minutes. With front glass removed stove never shuts off. So...an oxygen problem? 
Thanks in advance, all.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Oct 21, 2017)

I don't know how much your personal time is worth or how long you have spent on these problems but I would pull the stove out, disassemble it far enough to insure it's installed to manufacturer's specs, remove the homemade deflector in favor of all OEM components and re-install. Don't worry about taking apart parts with sealant on them, they can be re-sealed the same way you did it the first time.

You want this to work as intended, not spend the rest of your life messing with it.


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## Purzell (Oct 26, 2017)

Honestly, I’m done with it. I have come to the conclusion that at the root of all the problems is the fact that this unit is just not designed to vent up a chimney. I don’t have the skill or the money to keep having “gas experts” out to fiddle with it, so I am reluctantly looking into getting an insert instead.


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