# Putting a woodstove in a shed outside the house and piping the hot air in - sane idea?



## georgeW (Dec 11, 2008)

Hello all!
This is my first post here  - hope you don't mind if I start off asking ya'll for some advice!

I live in Up State NY, I have a small Jotul woodstove that I bought for my freestanding garage that I didn't get around to hooking up yet. I've been going through Propane alot quicker than I thought (hot forced air in a fairly drafy single wide trailer), and I am looking for a way to save some money on heat.

I don't want to put the woodstove inside my trailer as it isn't rated for trailers and with the clearance and all it would take up alot of living space.

A friend suggested building a small shed just next to the trailer, insulating it really well, putting the woodstove in there and then ducting the hot air the stove produces into the house, I would also have a cold air return going back out to it. I would use a fan inside the mouth of the duct going in to pull the heat inside.

Is this a reasonable (if somewhat ghetto) idea? The idea is to just cut down on heat consumption during the day, I wouldn't be using it at night.

If anyone is willing to share any thoughts and/or ideas I would REALLY appreciate it.

Thanks from frigid upstate NY!

George


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## Wet1 (Dec 11, 2008)

Get a OWB...


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## georgeW (Dec 11, 2008)

I would if I had 7 grand....


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## bokehman (Dec 11, 2008)

The majority of heat is radiant, not hot air.


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## georgeW (Dec 11, 2008)

So pulling hot air out of the shed wouldn't work? the air would warm up considerably right? especially in a small space?


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## Adios Pantalones (Dec 11, 2008)

It's against code in many places to put a stove in a shed or garage.  Check it in your area.


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## fossil (Dec 11, 2008)

Woodburning appliances like your Jotul stove are space heaters.  Radiant and convective.  I really think that for all the effort and expense of implementing your idea, you'd be disappointed by the results.  I think you'd heat the hell out of the little stove shed, and get marginal results inside your living space.  I don't even know just how you would design (dimension) and construct such a shed, because there are no provisions in any stove manufacturer's manuals that I know of for installing a stove in a "closet".  Plus, you'd have to be running in and out to tend the stove.  I'm not one to discourage original thinking and individual innovation, but I just don't think this is a good solution.  Have you looked at the small stoves available that are approved for mobile home installation?  There are many, and they're not all terribly expensive.  Rick


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## georgeW (Dec 11, 2008)

fossil said:
			
		

> Woodburning appliances like your Jotul stove are space heaters.  Radiant and convective.  I really think that for all the effort and expense of implementing your idea, you'd be disappointed by the results.  I think you'd heat the hell out of the little stove shed, and get marginal results inside your living space.  I don't even know just how you would design (dimension) and construct such a shed, because there are no provisions in any stove manufacturer's manuals that I know of for installing a stove in a "closet".  Plus, you'd have to be running in and out to tend the stove.  I'm not one to discourage original thinking and individual innovation, but I just don't think this is a good solution.  Have you looked at the small stoves available that are approved for mobile home installation?  There are many, and they're not all terribly expensive.  Rick



Hi Rick, 
Thank you for the well thought out reply. There seem to be instructions for installing the Jotul stove under a stairway, which I suppose might work, I was counting on the flow of air out of the shed into the house to cut down on the shed heating up to much, are you saying that because it's radiant heat the the walls of the shed etc.. would heat up but the air would remain relatively cool?

A question on a slightly different vein - do you think I could install the Jotul stove inside my single wide trailer? What is the difference between a stove rated for use in a trailer and one not rated for trailers?

Thanks for taking the time!


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## beau5278 (Dec 11, 2008)

I've know a couple of people who attached a room onto the backside of a trailer just so they could install a woodburner,neither were very happy with the results of that.It would probably make a difference if it was a some what finished room that you could spend part of your day in but that probably wouldn't even be up to code in some places.I see your in upstate NY,I'm under the understanding that some towns are restricting and I've also heard,banning outdoor woodburners,you may want to look into that before you go to far.


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## Techstuf (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm with Beau.

Assuming your setup is legal and *installed properly*, a well insulated shed with appreciable thermal mass could provide an excellent solution to your dilemma.   That way, you could burn hotter and cleaner and draw off the thermal mass.  

This book touches the iceberg on effective ways to increase efficiency by use of 'wood gassification':

http://www.rocketstoves.com/

If you have central air, it wouldn't be too hard to tie in.  Otherwise a thermostatically controlled fan should do the trick.


Your solution is well rooted in common sense and is eminently workable with the right precautions.   Or if your electric's comparatively cheap, get a couple Hydrosil or two to finish out the season and plan for next year.


TS


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## ansehnlich1 (Dec 11, 2008)

Well, it sounds to me like it just maybe, might, be a situation that could get one into running for the Darwin Awards.

Look, until you'd build a shed that's even close to code for a wood burning appliance, including the hearth, and the chimney, and necessary clearances, you'd spend enough money to buy a decent stove to be installed right into your place there.

Not to mention ductwork into your home, electric to run the blower, and the risk of a fire, WHOA, did I say FIRE.  

Yeah, if that thing would catch fire inside that shed what you'd have is a blower blowing FIRE into your home, NOT a good idea, hence, the comment above regarding Darwin.

Then, assuming your place ain't burned down, you'd have to go out, especially if it's a small stove, and tend to it every 4 to 6 hours.

Plus, I don't know if you've ever burned wood before, this old boy spends some time tending the fire, watching the stove top thermometer, keepin' a general eye on things when it's startin' up, adjusting air for long burns, etc.

I mean, it don't make sense to do it the way you're talking about, I don't care what anybody else says here, it'd be a general pain in the posterior not to mention the fact that it is HIGHLY DANGEROUS, my guess is it's TOTALLY against fire code in most regions of the U.S.A.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it


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## wellbuilt home (Dec 11, 2008)

Ive seen lots of trailers and even a school bus with a wood stove. You guys up in the woods do lots of funny things . I would try to find a stove made for the trailer installation.   I have a friend that  built a 16x 20 room off the side of a 25' travel trailer and put a stove in  but i don't think he had it inspected .Its better to be safe.


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## Techstuf (Dec 11, 2008)

I've seen enough trailer/woodstove horror stories not to chance an indoor installation if it were me.


It don't take a rocket scientist to build a fireproof structure, I say if you can swing it with TPTB,

do it and do it well.  We 'lower caste' members can't afford $6,000 for a masterpiece version outdoor wood furnace.  Awesome as they seem to be!

Unless one is willing to wait on the bailout bastards on capital hill to cut you a check.

Never let 'em tell you something can't be done.  Look for reasonable, well thought out ways it can:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yoursef/1977-01-01/Beat-High-Energy-Costs.aspx






TS


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## pen (Dec 11, 2008)

I too believe you can do this cheaper by cleaning that jotul up (if it needs it) and putting it up for sale, then buying a stove approved for your situation.

I think this will also make you happier in terms of heat derived, and you won't have to put your shoes on to load it with wood!  

Best of luck,

pen


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## fossil (Dec 11, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> ...There seem to be instructions for installing the Jotul stove under a stairway, which I suppose might work, I was counting on the flow of air out of the shed into the house to cut down on the shed heating up to much, are you saying that because it's radiant heat the the walls of the shed etc.. would heat up but the air would remain relatively cool?
> 
> A question on a slightly different vein - do you think I could install the Jotul stove inside my single wide trailer? What is the difference between a stove rated for use in a trailer and one not rated for trailers?



There are a whole lot of issues involved here.  First, the type of installation you refer to as "under a stairway", I believe would be what's called an _alcove_ installation, and many manufacturers give specifics for the required clearances in that application...but the assumption always is that at least the front is wide open to a room with some substantial dimension, not a situation where the stove is completely enclosed in a little shed or closet.  Freestanding woodstoves simply aren't designed to be used that way.  Second, there are many jurisdictions around the country where the mechanical code forbids placement of a return air duct register within 10 feet of a solid fuel-burning appliance.  This means that a stand-alone woodburner...not a boiler or furnace with heat exchanger/ducting/fan...cannot have an air register which is taking a suction with a fan and delivering that air elsewhere in the living space within 10 feet of it.  Third, in order to install a woodstove safely and properly in any mobile home application, the stove itself must be specifically approved for such installation.  It must be supplied with combustion air through an Outside Air Kit (OAK), and it must be firmly attached to the floor of the home, after all clearance and hearth protection requirements have been met, and a properly built connector pipe/chimney system installed.  Not every woodstove on the market is approved for installation in a mobile home, but many are.  You may not be a big believer in building codes, but I am.  I see them as a compendium of generations of lessons learned the hard way, and I think that even when I'm "wingin' it" without permits or inspections I feel a whole lot better about what I'm doing if I have a working knowledge of the codes involved...so I know I'm using best and safe practices.  From a heat transfer point of view, I think what you've designed in your head here would prove to be a pretty inefficient system.  Keep thinking and asking questions!  Rick


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## Jimbob (Dec 11, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> Hello all!
> This is my first post here  - hope you don't mind if I start off asking ya'll for some advice!
> 
> 
> ...



This could work for you.
http://www.outsidewoodheater.com/page5.html


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## Stevebass4 (Dec 11, 2008)

wasn't there a member here who sold an outdoor stove (not an outdoor furnace)  that was ducted into the house for cheap money


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## Stevebass4 (Dec 11, 2008)

err nevermind didn't see jimbob's post


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## Techstuf (Dec 11, 2008)

Great post JimBob.....somebody's always invoking darwin while others are out proving that sharing intelligent creation is much better than 'survival of the fittest'.


TS


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## Stevebass4 (Dec 11, 2008)

Techstuf said:
			
		

> Great post JimBob.....somebody's always invoking darwin while others are out proving that sharing intelligent creation is much better than 'survival of the fittest'.
> 
> 
> TS




not too sure i understand your post TS - many folks like that unit - i don;t see how darwin could play into it


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## georgeW (Dec 11, 2008)

Jimbob said:
			
		

> GeorgeW said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome! That looks exactly like what I'm looking for!

Thanks so much to everyone for all your advice, I've pretty much decided not to do it and maybe invest some money in the Outside wood heater Jimbob posted the link to.

Thanks again!


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## sublime68charger (Dec 11, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> Hello all!
> This is my first post here  - hope you don't mind if I start off asking ya'll for some advice!
> 
> I live in Up State NY, I have a small Jotul woodstove that I bought for my freestanding garage that I didn't get around to hooking up yet. I've been going through Propane alot quicker than I thought (hot forced air in a fairly drafy single wide trailer), and I am looking for a way to save some money on heat.
> ...



I have seen it done, I don't know if I would want to due it to a trailer I was living in.  but if your only running the stove when your home and awake and aware it might not be so risky.
still gonna have lot's of heat loss.

if I find time I'll take a Pic of the install that I know about and post it up for ya.


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## Techstuf (Dec 12, 2008)

Just referencing a post prior to your arrival to the thread Steve, pays to look up sometimes is all.



TS


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## woodjack (Dec 12, 2008)

Originality - 9
Practicality - 1


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## fabguy01 (Dec 12, 2008)

there is a guy just down the road from me that has an add on style wood furnace in a shed/ wood storage building that is about 5 foot away from his single wide, the air duct that runs to the shed is underground. he says the duct is also insulated. I've been over there when it was -10F and he had it at 70F and apeared to work realy well. You can find good deals on ad on units 200-500$  with everyone going to owb.    Nate


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## Techstuf (Dec 12, 2008)

There's an old Chinese proverb that seems appropo here....."Those that say it can't be done should not interrupt the ones who are doing it."




TS


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## woodjack (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm not one to knock innovative ideas or out of the box thinking. In fact, I love it. Initially, the stove in a shed idea sounded great, but these little fire boxes need a lot of attention. Who here doesn't monitor their fire and adjust it accordingly? And who wants to be constantly running out into the freezing cold just to see what the fire is doing, then adjusting it, then readjusting it, then adding wood, then dampering down, then adjusting it, then . . ..

I love tending to my fire, but there are limits. If all that back and forth in the frigid cold doesn't bother you, I'm behind you brother. Go for it.


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## madrone (Dec 12, 2008)

Well, the answer seems pretty simple to me. Move into the shed.


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## woodjack (Dec 12, 2008)

madrone said:
			
		

> Well, the answer seems pretty simple to me. Move into the shed.


that's funny.


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## Techstuf (Dec 12, 2008)

> And who wants to be constantly running out into the freezing cold just to see what the fire is doing, then adjusting it, then readjusting it, then adding wood, then dampering down, then adjusting it




Sounds like these owners:

http://www.outsidewoodheater.com/page10.html

Either love to do what you suggest, or your conjecture stems from a lack of knowledge of such devices.


Surely the truth must lay somewhere in between.


TS


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## Jimbob (Dec 12, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> Awesome! That looks exactly like what I'm looking for!
> 
> Thanks so much to everyone for all your advice, I've pretty much decided not to do it and maybe invest some money in the Outside wood heater Jimbob posted the link to.
> 
> Thanks again!



No problem ;-)
Let us know how it works out.


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## begreen (Dec 12, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> Hello all!
> This is my first post here  - hope you don't mind if I start off asking ya'll for some advice!
> 
> I live in Up State NY, I have a small Jotul woodstove that I bought for my freestanding garage that I didn't get around to hooking up yet. I've been going through Propane alot quicker than I thought (hot forced air in a fairly drafy single wide trailer), and I am looking for a way to save some money on heat.
> ...



You would be far better off to create an alcove extension on the house, sized appropriately for the stove (actually size it a bit bigger for the next stove you will be getting when this one proves too small). That way you can put in a proper flue and not deal with the silliness of trying to move heat around via ducting. Done right this will actually make the living area seem more expansive and will work without ducting. Something to think about if the power goes out with any frequency.


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## meathead (Dec 12, 2008)

My course of action in your situation would be more along the lines of what BG is driving at. A used EPA stove approved for trailer instalations and enough chimney pipe (could be used as well) to get you 3' above the roof and tall enough for good draft. 

But if you decide to do it your way I say more power to you. Hope it works out well - post pics if ti does.


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## T Osborn (Dec 12, 2008)

I've heard of a guy here at work that actually does something similar to the OP's inquiry. He started with a concrete pad, a double-barrel stove and one of those metal 10X12 yard barns. Extremly well insulated (we work in a power plant, wonder where the insulation came from?) he also ducted underground and uses a fan to pull heat from this building into his existing ductwork. I am passing this along for entertainment only and not an indorsment. This is not a trailer application. I imagine this thing eats wood like crazy. Here's yer sign!


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## meathead (Dec 12, 2008)

Consider pulling air from the trailer into the shed so the shed pressurizes and pushes warm air through the duct back into the trailer. Solves your combustion air problems.


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## drdoct (Dec 12, 2008)

Most of the time when you try to rig things it ends up costing more than if you had just done it right.  That doesn't keep me from trying, but most of the time I end up paying twice.  Everything I can think of requires you to buy a new stove or furnace.  So if you've got to buy a new wood furnace or an insert, then why not just buy the right one to go in the trailer?  The rigging part of me says.... buy one of those wood furnaces from Tractor supply and stick that sucker out in the cold with ceramic insulation covering it.  Pipe your air in and out using well insulated ducting.  Or...  Install an insert outside with insulation around it and duct the air coming off it.  All those options would produce a much cooler result than the right insert for your trailer installed correctly.  Shoot, anything can be done, but is it really worth all the extra effort of building a shed and then trying to move the air?  NOPE!  When you start moving hot air with fans it cools it dramatically.  I learned that you have to create the vacuum and let the air flow naturally to displace the cold air.  If you try to push it you get cool air.  Unfortunately physics still apply even to rig jobs.  I can think of all sorts of ways that sound good, but once science kicks in, it gets ruined.  The biggest example of this is the idea of blowing air though a fireplace grate like this http://www.woodlanddirect.com/site/fireplace-grate-heater.html
It sounds good, but in reality it cools the fire down a whole lot.  Again, with the whole physics thing.  It all seems free till you try to harvest it.


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## MishMouse (Dec 12, 2008)

If I were you I would go with BG's suggestion, but if you do go with an outdoor solution and vent it inside, make sure you put a fire damper on it. Along with multiple smoke and CO2 detectors inside your house.  Also I would ask a local fire inspector before you start such a project.


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## Hanko (Dec 12, 2008)

GeorgeW said:
			
		

> Hello all!
> This is my first post here  - hope you don't mind if I start off asking ya'll for some advice!
> 
> I live in Up State NY, I have a small Jotul woodstove that I bought for my freestanding garage that I didn't get around to hooking up yet. I've been going through Propane alot quicker than I thought (hot forced air in a fairly drafy single wide trailer), and I am looking for a way to save some money on heat.
> ...


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## Techstuf (Dec 12, 2008)

The customers of the outdoor stove posted above seem to love it.  One customer stated that the stove kept them warm while 8 inches of snow accumulated on TOP of the outdoor stove....AND they're burning less wood than a neighbor with an indoor stove.  A well insulated system can be very efficient allowing for greater temperatures which  make for more complete combustion and increases thermal transfer.


And look at the savings over the $6,000 dollar wet transfer units.


I doubt all his raving customers are as ignorant as they are being made out to be by some....


It's easy to mock what one does not understand.



TS


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## firefighterjake (Dec 12, 2008)

Another vote for cleaning up and selling the Jotul and turning around and buying a stove rated for trailers . . . it may cost a little more now, but the peace and mind that comes from doing something right so one could maximize their heat and minimize any potential dangers is a cost to me that has no price tag.


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