# Outdoor, but only, outdoor boiler review compare brands of OWB's, list particulars



## sdrobertson

I'm located in West Michigan and use a 2006 Central Boiler 6048.  My house is approximately 1400 sq ft with a full basement.  I do not heat dw as I have natural gas service and there is a minimum charge so I may as well use it while paying for service.  I have approximately 5 acres but live in a village.  I use approximately 8 full cords for heat.  I'm extremely pleased with the CB and would recommend it to anyone that lives in a rural setting but I am going to "up-grade" to an EKO gasifier within the next two years as there is talk in town about outdoor boiler ban in the village.  I'm extremely careful to burn dry good wood and I'm not having an issue with the smoke output, but I'm sure at somepoint someone else will put an OWB in and not take care of how they will burn it.  I only fill it once a day, and always at night.  It really irritates me that OWB are getting such a bad rap, but it's the owners that are screwing it up for everybody.  I was talking to someone the other day and they were bragging about only having to fill there OWB everyother day.  They stated that they fill it as full as they can with green wood and it would hold a fire that long.  I asked how much smoke he was producing and he laughed and said that sometimes he couldn't even see the woods through the smoke.  I suppose we have to pass Laws to protect the stupid.


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## sdrobertson

Ok - went out last night to measure wood pile as I realize what I call a "cord" might not be a cord in other parts.  Looking at the definitation of a Full Cord being 128 cubit ft - I have 5 rows 27' x 5' x 36" (most of it is way under 36" but I dont want to underestimate it again) which equals almost 16 "full cords" by volume.  The house was built in 1968 and was well insulated.  I have a two stall garage under part of the house in the basement that is also heated but with poorly insulated (orginal) garage doors.  What I was trying to state was that I really like the OWB and would recommend Central Boiler if it is burned right as I have had no complaints from the neighbors about its use.  I purchased this unit before I had heard about the EKO and others like this system which I would have purchased as they are approximately the same expense.  As for the "green wood" I was talking about - it wasn't "green treated wood" or telephone poles - it was green as in freshly cut firewood.


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## akwood

have aqua-therm which i've used last couple years and really like. wasn't sure i'd like the forced draft or not but do like. it's either burning hot or when fans off it looks about like a toyota at idle. nothing bad to say about it. had ithaska (sp) boiler , naturally draft, before that and couldn't say much good about that one


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## WILDSOURDOUGH

Mine is a Central Boiler- 
(Why it's called a Boiler I don't know- it doesn't 'boil', unless the damper sticks open and water reaches 212)
Second year with it- installed last year, 100' from house with pipe 4' underground to radiant pex in the basement floor. We lived in the basement with house closed in but unfinished (no insulation upstairs, no soffets, tarpaper roof) Stove ran 24/7- eating a TREE or so a day (15+ cords, I lost count) and all I was able to get was 55 degrees tops ! (wife was very unhappy camper).
Buttoned-up the house this year, and started the stove three weeks ago with a cold spell- WOW, what a difference- 74 in basement- 65 upstairs when it's been 12-30 outside overnight.  AND i'm only having to put 2-3 Logs in a day or every other day ! Fantastic- and wife is happy now. I did not even start it today- think i loaded it 3 times last week.
Haven't had to run my Lopi Leyden much, 4-5 times so far- gets way to hot in here- waiting for the 'real' winter to set in.
I like my Central now, Have had to wd-40 the damper linkages twice- sticking-(but thats maintainence, per manual)
Sure will use less trees this year.

Craig-
Everyone should burn 'seasoned firewood', I do- and that is all I burn, and once it gets up to tempeature-It burns very clean.
BUT--- I also know some 'knuckleheads' who have these units, and burn- green wood, trash, painted wood, treated wood- anything, treating the stove like their own private incinerator (except w/o epa registration). You can see and smell them for miles around. The manual tells the owner, the sticker on the unit tells the owner- BURN ONLY SEASONED FIREWOOD. But, alas- some people will always do as they please. I don't have any solution for this problem- except maybe some communities baning them- if their population is too dense ( Hey- their is a joke in here, I just wrote that...HAHAHA, HARDI HAR HAR).


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## Chuck Eicher

I have recently installed ( mid Sept.) a Hardy H4.  I started by heating our swimming pool, added DHW and now with the injector to the fuel oil furnace unplugged heating a 2100 ft. old farm house that was my grandparents. We have replaced the windows (Pella)  and blew in insulation in 1990. Our fuel oil usage has been in the 900-1000 gal/season. We would have the house at 70. I was very close to putting in an outdoor corn boiler in the fall of 2006,but the doubling of the price of corn made it impossible to put the the system in and buy corn for the same or less than our budget payment. I manage a farm that has over 60 acres of woods and numerous fence rows. I am only cutting dead or down trees. Usage has been on the coldest days 25@night 40 during the day a wheelbarrow full. The house is 74-75 and my wife is not COLD!!PRICELESS

  When I first started heating the swimming pool it was a real draw 2 wheelbarrows a day. When it got up to temp. 85+ it varied on the outside temp. 

  When I get a better handle on usage cord wise I'll report back.

 Have a wonderful & blessed Thanksgiving


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## pdboilermaker

My buddies and I have outside wood boilers, we have had them for a couple of years now.  Of course we meet at the fence row to cuss, fuss, and discuss which one is better.  The WoodMaster, the Central Boiler, or the Heatmor.  I dont know about you but my buddies and I had to buy different brands just so we could argue. 

The one thing that we can all agree on is we wish that woodboilers were listed on epinions or a similar sight so that newbys as well as us could find out the pros/cons etc of each woodboiler such as expected issues, wood consumption etc. made by each of the now dozens of new manufactures.  Does anyone know of such a sight?  Shall we just start one here? 

While it is fun for the 3 of us, that is a low sample of 1 piece of data per manufacturer.  To make a good descision, you would need much more data to identify any trends. 


Please follow this format for your posts:

OK then we will begin here with the comparisons I suppose: 

1.  The home and conditions: 

I live in North Central Indiana, in the country close to Kokomo 

I am heating a 100 year old farm house that is 3300 square feet of a well insulated (R38 in celings / R19 in the walls) two story home using a forced air furnace for the upstairs and a forced air furnace for the downstairs 

I have little to no windbreak (come on planted trees, grow), and the wind really whips around here, especially in fall, spring, and winter 

My typical propane bills (prior to the boiler installed in March 2005) were about $2000/year with two 90+ furnaces and a tankless hot water heater 

I have always used digital kickback thermostats with the following settings:  445am 70, 7am 50, 430pm 70, 930pm 60 

2.  The boiler: 

It is a Woodmaster 4400 made with mild steel, 125 gallons of water, fan induced draft 

Woodmaster themselves said that the stainless steel is not a good value for the money and they sell stainless also.  My friend with a Central Boiler was told the same thing by their engineers as well. 

It sets about 30 feet from the house 

1” pex line buried about 34” in the ground 

Smoke looks like when you first start a campfire for about 10 minutes then it goes away, while idle, smoke looks about like what comes off of a big fat cigar 

I use it to run my upstairs furnace, my down stairs furnace, and heat my water 

Boiler does NOT run year round, it is not worth the effort (to me) to run it in the summer just to heat our domestic water 

Boiler typically runs from mid October to mid May so like 7-8 months total per year 

3.  The wood: 

I burn any kind of wood from pine (in the cooler months) to hardwoods (in the midst of winter) and telephone poles ($1.00 each from our local utility) that are used for those sub-zero days and nights with the really low wind chills 

My neighbor is a tree trimmer so I have an unlimited supply of fire wood 

Many of my co-workers donate their fallen down trees if I will cut up and remove 

In the town I work, there is a saw mill that makes pallets (from hard wood only) you can buy their scrap, typically 8” x 8” x 24” to 36” for $20.00.  That is two dumps onto your trailor, truck etc.  from their 5 cubic yard payloader.  When its all said and done, thats about a cord of hardwood for $20.00.  This is good to use if you are in a pinch because of snow or whatever. 

4.  Filling the boiler: 

This element is so dependat on the weather so it is nearly impossible to judge.  If the wind is blowing from the NW at 15-MPH but the outside temp is 32, I will burn much more wood then if the outside temp is 0 with no wind.  Wind is my nemisis. 

I most generally fill the boiler 2 times per day.  At 6am then again at 5pm to get this type of times between fill ups, you must adjust what TYPE of wood that you use as seen above with the pine, hardwood, telephone poles example above. 

I do go out often to stoke the fire.  Just because I like an excuse to go outside.  While I am out there, maybe I throw in a log or two each time. 

5.  Total amout of wood used per heating season: 

I have only had my boiler for two complete seasons (now entering the third) and I estimate that I burn between 9-12 cords per year again depending on the wind. 

It is hard to really judge though since I am always picking up a little wood here or there. 

Right now, I have 10 cords cut and split since spring, and the boiler is going.  But, on nicer days (even in January) the boys and I will go cut a truck load on the weekends just for somethibng to do. 

6.  The problems: 

The little glass jelly jar light cover on the front of the boiler does not stay on very well 

Hope that this gets everyone started so that we can do some comparisons.  If we all follow this same format, it should be easy to decipher for people.


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## Eric Johnson

*Moderator's Note:*

Pdboilermaker has asked that responses in this thread be limited to the topics and format outlined above. I've agreed to delete any posts that don't adhere, at least in spirit, to those guidelines.

I think this is a great resource for OWB owners to compare their conditions and equipment, and for others to learn from what they report. So I hope others will contribute in that spirit.


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## pdboilermaker

Come on guys, there has to be someone out there who isnt ashamed that they bought a heatmor or something.  Pick up guys, chime in on your OWB's to help the people that are looking for a new one this year


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## atlarge54

I've heated with wood for most of my life and always wanted an OWB. A few years ago I moved into a 1250 ft. sq. home (built in 1953). The crawl space was not insulated and I decided to put in pex floor radiant before I insulated it. The local stove dealer had a Global Hydronics OWB that had a corroded water jacket for $300 I think it was 4 years old. I surrounded the fire box with five sixty foot coils of 3/4 K copper with a 1" dia. manifold at the top (coils connected first in last out). The water jacket was replaced (not water tight just a mechanical fit) and the cavity was filled with pea gravel for thermal mass. When I first fired it up I was totally amazed how much heat was puked out the chimney, I immediately disabled the blower motor and the aquastat only opens and closes the air supply. This is my third winter and I'm really quite satisfied with this system. In the summer I switch two ball valves and the boiler is only operating a side arm exchanger for DHW using a chunk of wood every day or two. My entire system cost under $3000 including Zurn manifold for floor (not really worth the extra expense). If I were starting from scratch and spending big money on new equipment I think I'd prefer an indoor boiler in a garage or outbuilding to utilize some of the heat wasted by the exposed door etc. and have dry wood storage at the stove. Gassifiers sure look sweet but it looks like the expense and storage costs would make payback a long term affair. Radiant in floor is great and also allows a lower water temp. I run 130-140 F. Retrofitting floor radiant in an existing building can be a nasty job. Milwakee Hole Hog drill bits are worth their weight in gold if you ever try such a job. Thats my two cents. Wishing everyone a nice warm home this winter.


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## Polarbear2008

Hello all.  A few weeks ago I had a Central Boiler 6048 installed and am happy with the heat output.  It is now my primary heat source with an oil boiler as a backup.  I have noticed the damper stays open way past the shutoff temp but calls to those who should be able to help seem fruitless.  Temperatures here will get down to 40 or 50 below frequently during the summer.  Anyone have any ideas about the damper?  Have replaced the solenoid once...it buzzes alot.
ALSO...I have had different opinions on how much wood to keep in the firebox...full/half full/quarter full...I go with a little more than quarter full and put wood in twice a day.
Thanks!!


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## Eric Johnson

Here's a Yahoo Group devoted to CB. I bet someone there will be happy to answer your question.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Central-Boiler/


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## rsnider

has anyone with owb seen this one: elite heat wood boiler. looks like a clean burn and can burn wood chips possibly. check out the videos.  i think the boiler is made by inotek (western pacific boiler).


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## brad068

rsnider said:
			
		

> has anyone with owb seen this one: elite heat wood boiler. looks like a clean burn and can burn wood chips possibly. check out the videos.  i think the boiler is made by inotek (western pacific boiler).



 This boiler is/was built by spirit boiler in Sparta WI.  The video is shot in front of Spirit boiler building.  There junk.  A perfect example of a owb's inefficient combustion is like trying to cut through well pipe with water on the back side using a torch-can't do it.


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## pdboilermaker

Dear Chuck, 

We have an Empyre 450 from Cozyburn that handles all our heating needs. The first couple of years we had to replace the air injection tubes inside the burn chamber. I think the company tried to lighten up on the steel and they burned through fairly quickly. We were told to keep the coal bed lower than the air tubes. Also the dealer replaced the air tubes with a much thicker version. It has been 2-1/2 yrs since then and all is well. 
The newer furnace versions have a blower mounted in the loading door. I would still keep the coal bed less than half the distance from the bottom of the chamber to the bottom of the door. I stir the coal bed each evening before loading to sift out the ash and dump the ash pan every other day. Just do it in the idle mode and not right after the blower has shut off. The gases will ignite with the introduction of fresh O2.  This time of year I empty the pan on the snow then cover it with more snow to extinguish any live coals. In the spring I scoop up the ashes and spread them in the garden. 

Our furnace runs 365 24/7 , we have a dry kiln and domestic hot water that depend on the heat supply. A 30kw Onan generator backs up the electrical needs in the case of outages. 

I can not give you a definite answer on how long before it will freeze up without filling the fire box. I have had to shut down the system on occasion to replace the air tubes and it took a couple of days to cool down enough to work on it. Also, when your propane kicks in the heat exchanger should transfer heat to your 450 to keep it from freezing--The flat plate heat exchanger we have works both ways. 

I also found that dry wood and reducing the stack diameter from 8” to 4” has made a huge difference in performance and burn time. I have 2 sections of insulated SS pipe for the chimney and 2 reducers placed at the top ( perfect fit ) to achieve the reduction in diameter. 

Good to have you aboard, 

Hbbyloggr


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## WILDSOURDOUGH

Polarbear2008-
Sorry, I found your post only today.

"Anyone have any ideas about the damper?  Have replaced the solenoid once...it buzzes alot"

Don't think it's the damper- you might be looking at the door gasket. I just replaced mine last weekend- same symptons...
Temps going way above 'setting' (like mine had two boil overs- water got past 212 degrees)- found it was a leaky door gasket.
CB 5036 gasket and sealer kit was $18.00- a cheap fix ! ( Your's will be twice as much- cuz everything is 'imported' for you).
Ps... My solenoid buzzes all the time... but two years w/o failure- just keep it WD-40'ed- like once a month ( I put wingnuts on cover for ease of access). 

Best to You- happy holidays !


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## eco-one

akwood said:
			
		

> have aqua-therm which i've used last couple years and really like. wasn't sure i'd like the forced draft or not but do like. it's either burning hot or when fans off it looks about like a toyota at idle. nothing bad to say about it. had ithaska (sp) boiler , naturally draft, before that and couldn't say much good about that one



HAS ANYONE HEARD OR PURCHASED THE NEW ECO-ONE FROM AQUA-THERM?ITS STILL THERE ORIGANAL UNIT WITH A NEW BAFFLE DESIGN.


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## akwood

eco-one ...do you have or are you looking at getting one? i talked with aqua-therm recently and they said they had an upgrade for older models,but haven't seen any paperwork on it. sounds like a baffle improvement and maybe ? a fan on the door.  was thinking about modifying mine into more of a down flow since it is fan induced already. i think they may have a picture on there website


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## Eric Johnson

Welcome to the Boiler Room, guys. Akwood, I think you're our first Aquatherm owner. Not the first member from Alaska, though.


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## eco-one

akwood said:
			
		

> eco-one ...do you have or are you looking at getting one? i talked with aqua-therm recently and they said they had an upgrade for older models,but haven't seen any paperwork on it. sounds like a baffle improvement and maybe ? a fan on the door.  was thinking about modifying mine into more of a down flow since it is fan induced already. i think they may have a picture on there website



I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW IM PART OF THE DESIGN ON THE NEW BAFFLE .WE MAKE THE AQUA-THERM STOVE AND KNOW IT FROM FRONT TO BACK .INSIDE AND OUT. BEEN MAKING THEM FOR 25 YEARS AND BEEN THERE SINCE DAY 1.IT IS A VERY GOOD DESIGN AND VERY CLEAN BURNING.IF INTERESTED ON THIS ALSO YOU CAN CALL ME @320-346-2263 ASK FOR DAVE.


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## rsnider

how is the eco-one different from the original aqua therm models?


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## Eric Johnson

Why don't you post some pics, Dave? I think we'd all like to see what you're describing. Tell us how the new baffle works compared to the old one.

I used to run into Olaf at trade shows. Nice guy; retired now, I guess. I hear you guys are importing a Euro pellet burning boiler. Can you tell us more about that?

And how about turning off the caps lock on your keyboard? No need to shout in the Boiler Room.


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## rsnider

maybe just a loud talker at least he's not a low talker. or even a close talker. HA HA


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## brad068

eco-one said:
			
		

> akwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eco-one ...do you have or are you looking at getting one? i talked with aqua-therm recently and they said they had an upgrade for older models,but haven't seen any paperwork on it. sounds like a baffle improvement and maybe ? a fan on the door.  was thinking about modifying mine into more of a down flow since it is fan induced already. i think they may have a picture on there website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW IM PART OF THE DESIGN ON THE NEW BAFFLE .WE MAKE THE AQUA-THERM STOVE AND KNOW IT FROM FRONT TO BACK .INSIDE AND OUT. BEEN MAKING THEM FOR 25 YEARS AND BEEN THERE SINCE DAY 1.IT IS A VERY GOOD DESIGN AND VERY CLEAN BURNING.IF INTERESTED ON THIS ALSO YOU CAN CALL ME @320-346-2263 ASK FOR DAVE.
Click to expand...


 How is the Omega gasifier coming?  Do you have any involvement with it?  Is it ready for the public?  I myself am interested in the hybirds ( gasifier), not the Dodge power wagons (owb). ;-P


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## eco-one

Garnification said:
			
		

> eco-one said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> akwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eco-one ...do you have or are you looking at getting one? i talked with aqua-therm recently and they said they had an upgrade for older models,but haven't seen any paperwork on it. sounds like a baffle improvement and maybe ? a fan on the door.  was thinking about modifying mine into more of a down flow since it is fan induced already. i think they may have a picture on there website
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW IM PART OF THE DESIGN ON THE NEW BAFFLE .WE MAKE THE AQUA-THERM STOVE AND KNOW IT FROM FRONT TO BACK .INSIDE AND OUT. BEEN MAKING THEM FOR 25 YEARS AND BEEN THERE SINCE DAY 1.IT IS A VERY GOOD DESIGN AND VERY CLEAN BURNING.IF INTERESTED ON THIS ALSO YOU CAN CALL ME @320-346-2263 ASK FOR DAVE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the Omega gasifier coming?  Do you have any involvement with it?  Is it ready for the public?  I myself am interested in the hybirds ( gasifier), not the Dodge power wagons (owb). ;-P
Click to expand...


well im not involved with the omega!that unit is made by a different company in the twin cities.we are in central mn that make the aqua-therm stove.


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## eco-one

rsnider said:
			
		

> how is the eco-one different from the original aqua therm models?


the new aqua-therm is much cleaner and almost smokeless and no fire brick to worry about.its almost like a gasifier but only burning the unburnt gasses (smoke)over again .is there any gassifiers that are passed by epa yet?i would like to know.


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## eco-one

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Why don't you post some pics, Dave? I think we'd all like to see what you're describing. Tell us how the new baffle works compared to the old one.
> 
> I used to run into Olaf at trade shows. Nice guy; retired now, I guess. I hear you guys are importing a Euro pellet burning boiler. Can you tell us more about that?
> 
> And how about turning off the caps lock on your keyboard? No need to shout in the Boiler Room.


lol sorry for yelling lol.Olaf is one nice guy he still stops in and shots the bull with us.i could find a few pics and post but it will be a few days .are you a dealer that you know olaf?


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## eco-one

rsnider said:
			
		

> how is the eco-one different from the original aqua therm models?


difference is the new one reburns the unburnt gasses(smoke) which makes a cleaner burning stove with out lossing btu


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## brad068

eco-one said:
			
		

> rsnider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is the eco-one different from the original aqua therm models?
> 
> 
> 
> the new aqua-therm is much cleaner and almost smokeless and no fire brick to worry about.its almost like a gasifier but only burning the unburnt gasses (smoke)over again .is there any gassifiers that are passed by epa yet?i would like to know.
Click to expand...


Well, no refractory material is sooo.. wrong. True gasifiers would not work efficiently without firebrick/ceramics. Unless you are using kryptonite infused steel, or tiles off of the space shuttle, nothing else will withstand the temps of secondary burning. The definition of refract/refraction is the bending of a ray or wave of light, heat, or sound as it passes indirectly from one medium to another of different density... 

As far as I'm concerned, any wood stove or boiler, especially a boiler without firebrick is inexcusable. Boilers need the refractory material gap to produce high temps for complete combustion of the fuel. Without this gap boilers are trying to produce a temp span of 1000*f or more in the thickness of the plate steel, 10Ga. to 3/8". Certain S.S's. do not take well to this thermal span where one side of the steel(water) its 180*F and on the air side(combustion) is 1200*F. The result, stress corrosion cracking. 


Liquid cooled engines, especially two cycle, act in this same way in the form of cold seizures. The liquid absorbs the combustion heat so well that the cylinder wall cannot expand as fast as the piston. The piston expands rapidly and soon is as large as the cylinder bore and seizes in the cylinder. 
Air cooled engines are not as susceptible to this because air cannot absorb/remove the heat as fast, and the cylinder can expand more equal to the piston. But when air cooled engines had a piston failure, more often than not the piston was melting down from excessive combustion heat that the air cooling could not get rid of. 


Many woodstoves burn more efficiently than owb. When the firebox is insulated with air, the steel can get alot hotter thus, higher temps are achieved. When insulated by water, the steel is always quenched and cannot burn off the creosote/tar that develops on alot of owb walls along with the constant cycling. A good example of this is like trying to gas axe through casing with water on the backside or soldering a joint with a little water on the inside. In fact, I think that if a person with a owb would install a buffer tank and burn the owb like a gasifier (Garn), they would see a decrease in fuel usage.

I have some 1" ceramic blanket and did a neat experiment with it. I held a piece in my hand and burned the top side with map gas torch. I held it there for half a minute and could barely feel the heat on my hand and the top side was glowing bright orange. - refractory a must!

 As for any gasifiers that have passed EPA emissions, the E3400 from Sequoyah is one.  The Garn has passed two independent testing procedures. CB is supposed to have one.


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## Eric Johnson

The trade association I work for puts on the Northeastern Forest Products Equipment Expo. I'm in charge of freight handling at the show, so I get to know all the exhibitors, especially the OWB guys, because their boiler are such a PIA to move around. Usually they sell them at the show, so I usually only have to worry about getting them off the truck, not back on after the show.


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## deerhuntrer

I have a central boiler 6048 its my second winter using it. I live in a huge 150 year old farmhouse with oil hot air backup. I also heat a small apartment with it which is over the barn. The stove is 100 feet from the house and we burn everything we can for wood from hemlock slabs to hardwood. My only, only complaint is that we get alot of snow here and the winds whips and drifts and freezes the damper open and causes it to boil over I am suprised that Central Boiler hasnt created a breathable cover for the grill part so snow cant drift up in the damper. This has happened twice last year and twice this year. I have tried to make my own, but with limited success. Does any other Central boiler owner out there that has had experience with this? We have recieved over 50 inches of snow already this year and it tends to drift wickidly.


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## deerhuntrer

I have owned a CB 6048 for 2 years and love it. I did some research before and chose the CB over the others. I was also looking at Aqua Therms but because the dealer at CB was more helpful than the one at AT, we chose CB. Best of all it beats burning oil.


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