# Foundation leveling.



## HeatsTwice (Jun 12, 2015)

I've got a house whose foundation has settled: +3/1"  at the front to -2.5" to the back. Its taken 50 years for such settling to occur.

The floors of the house are supported by 4x4 wood posts on cement footings which have not settled at the same rate. Thus the center of the interior floors slope to the foundation (mostly in the back of the house).

I'm getting quotes for a fix - ranging from installation of push piles around the foundation which are deeply implanted piles which will hoist the foundation up by 2.5 inches where necessary, and then "smart jack" installation to replace the center floor posts. Total cost $60K. Smart jacks are just adjustable screw jacks.

I'm thinking that -2.5" from front to back isn't that bad so I am opting for only installation of the smart jacks on the existing cement footings to bring the centers of the house down accordingly - in order to cut cost. Then in another 50 years, I will adjust them again - or as needed.

Any thoughts? I'm not selling the place, just renting it out again at a higher rate after major renovation which will include substantial flooring tile throughout.


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## gzecc (Jun 13, 2015)

If the adjustable screw jacks meet code, I'm for that.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 13, 2015)

gzecc said:


> If the adjustable screw jacks meet code, I'm for that.



Yea the contractor wants $16K to replace 19 posts with the screw jacks - along with the cement footings. But the existing footings haven't moved in 50 years, so in my opinion, there would be no need to replace them - just put in the jacks and be done with it.


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## brian89gp (Jun 13, 2015)

I'm all for lowering the center of the house vs raising the exterior.  Makes much more financial sense.


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## gzecc (Jun 14, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> Yea the contractor wants $16K to replace 19 posts with the screw jacks - along with the cement footings. But the existing footings haven't moved in 50 years, so in my opinion, there would be no need to replace them - just put in the jacks and be done with it.


Is he replacing the footings for code reasons? If not, keep them. How deep are they?


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## Highbeam (Jun 14, 2015)

I have a similar foundation style and have replaced posts with screw jacks. An easy job. What's not easy is getting your floor flat this way. It has been pushed up for decades and won't fall down as easily as you think. Consider that due to interior walls you will also be trying to change the level of your ceilings.

Lastly. Maybe your house was built like this and never settled at all. Your carpenter made compromises and perhaps cut some wall studs longer to accommodate the bad foundation job.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 14, 2015)

>What's not easy is getting your floor flat this way. It has been pushed up for decades and won't fall down as easily as you think.

Yea that's what I figure also. What I'd like is to use the "smart Jacks" to get it level, have it settle in, and then do the renovation. The problem in my mind is, how long to wait between the two


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## Highbeam (Jun 15, 2015)

The smart jack is just a screw jack. Don't pay much for the name.

http://commercial.foundationsupportworks.com/products/crawlspace-supports.html

You may never get the floor to be flat or level by use of the screw jacks. Beams may be bowed up with enough memory to stay there. If you try to lower a high spot you'll be simply removing the support from beneath and waiting for it to fall, forever. The screw jack will be loose and your project on hold forever. What people do in this case is strip the subfloor and cut down the beams. Tighten the screw jacks to prevent bouncing and perhaps settlement over the next decades.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 15, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> The smart jack is just a screw jack. Don't pay much for the name.
> 
> http://commercial.foundationsupportworks.com/products/crawlspace-supports.html
> 
> You may never get the floor to be flat or level by use of the screw jacks. Beams may be bowed up with enough memory to stay there. If you try to lower a high spot you'll be simply removing the support from beneath and waiting for it to fall, forever. The screw jack will be loose and your project on hold forever. What people do in this case is strip the subfloor and cut down the beams. Tighten the screw jacks to prevent bouncing and perhaps settlement over the next decades.



Man, whats worse: push piling the foundation up, or praying the screw jack lowered floors settle?

Push pile = $40K
Screw Jack = far less.


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## Highbeam (Jun 15, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> Man, whats worse: push piling the foundation up, or praying the screw jack lowered floors settle?
> 
> Push pile = $40K
> Screw Jack = far less.



And if you jack the foundation up who's to say that the floor will level out? It might just level up the perimeter and make the hump higher.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 15, 2015)

Yea, lots of good news here. 

It seems like gravity always wins. So I will probably go for screw jacks and wait for physics to take over.

Maybe I should rent a bunch of water beds and grand pianos an put them in every room after I install the screw jacks.


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## brian89gp (Jun 16, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> Yea, lots of good news here.
> 
> It seems like gravity always wins. So I will probably go for screw jacks and wait for physics to take over.
> 
> Maybe I should rent a bunch of water beds and grand pianos an put them in every room after I install the screw jacks.



What is the total span length that the soon to be screw jacks are in the middle of?


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## Highbeam (Jun 16, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> Yea, lots of good news here.
> 
> It seems like gravity always wins. So I will probably go for screw jacks and wait for physics to take over.
> 
> Maybe I should rent a bunch of water beds and grand pianos an put them in every room after I install the screw jacks.



Using screw jacks to unload an arched beam really isn't using screw jacks at all. You are just removing support and hoping for settlement. Beams are pretty strong. Sometimes, especially in the olden days, the beams were way oversized. Once arched they really don't want to unarch.

I would do as you propose and try removing support from the high spots by using the screw jacks as a way to slowly remove support. Then go up onto the floor and jump up and down. If the floor didn't sag then wait a week. Then go check the tightness of the screw jack.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 17, 2015)

brian89gp said:


> What is the total span length that the soon to be screw jacks are in the middle of?



Here is a picture of the house outline. The cracks shown are those in dry wall (not the foundation). The numbers are in inches of settle across the perimeter. The numbers in reverse video are where the foundation guys want to insert screw jacks. Blurry pictures show some of the shots from under the house. Flash light is pointed at piers which are offset.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 17, 2015)

gzecc said:


> Is he replacing the footings for code reasons? If not, keep them. How deep are they?



I don't know but they are not what seem to have sunk/moved, just the foundation.


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## gzecc (Jun 17, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> I don't know but they are not what seem to have sunk/moved, just the foundation.


What do you define as the "foundation" the wood or the cement ?


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 17, 2015)

I am calling the foundation the cement perimeter  - not the footings/pier/4x4 post components.


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## ironpony (Jun 17, 2015)

based on what I can see in the pics, beam sizing, joist spacing, the floor will likely settle down. However also based on what I see you will never get tile laid on that surface which will be structurally sound.


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## HeatsTwice (Jun 17, 2015)

ironpony said:


> based on what I can see in the pics, beam sizing, joist spacing, the floor will likely settle down. However also based on what I see you will never get tile laid on that surface which will be structurally sound.



If you meant "structurally unsound", I think I agree.

Thanks very much for the encouraging words. 

I would ordinarily just sell the place and negotiate with the buyer on these issues. But the place has appreciate 500% in the past 30 years which is better than all my other investments. So I want to hold on to it for another 10. By that time it will be time to tear the place down and start over.


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## Highbeam (Jun 18, 2015)

Those beams look long and not oversized at all. I feel much better about your odds of getting settlement after seeing them. Holy crap, I thought my floor system was sparse!

Is that just dirt on the floor or is it some sort of puffy insulation product?


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## sportbikerider78 (Jun 18, 2015)

HeatsTwice said:


> Yea, lots of good news here.
> 
> It seems like gravity always wins. So I will probably go for screw jacks and wait for physics to take over.
> 
> Maybe I should rent a bunch of water beds and grand pianos an put them in every room after I install the screw jacks.



Or get a big safe and fill it with guns.


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