# I MADE THINGS A LOT WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!



## AppalachianStan (Dec 10, 2011)

Hi guy Its Mr hard time here a gone. 

I made things a lot worse by putting new gaskets on my stove. Now it will not draft at all. It is not my wood I bought some ECO blocks from Tractor Supply and I have 2 blocks in the stove right now that are just smoldering away. My chimney system is 14 feet 8" round. Why buy cats when I can't even get the stove up to temp.

I have 9 Feet of 8" Super Vent Chimney system, 54" of 8" black stove pipe for sale
What is it worth? So I can put it on CL.


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## project240 (Dec 10, 2011)

Sounds like you should probably address the actual problem rather than selling it?  Did you install the new gaskets properly?  Is your rain cap clean?


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## Pallet Pete (Dec 10, 2011)

Check to see if the latch itself is adjustable. To test the seal stick a dallar bill between the door and stove and shut it if you cant remove it then its tight. If thats not it check your damper and see if its stuck ( that happened to me once ). Your rain cap may be clogged as project240 said. If this was happining before as well then it could be as simple as adding a pipe to the chimney and increasing the draft. I have no idea what used pipe sells for either.

Hope this helps.
Pete


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## pen (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm not familiar with those stove, but are you certain the air intake is opening closing when you ask it to and is unobstructed?  

pen


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 10, 2011)

biggest thing to remember , stoves dont draw, chimneys do, stoves inhibit draw to make wood last longer though so the chimney MUST be able to overcome this resistance. if you are not getting any draft, unless its a plugged up area of the stove or a closed bypass (this is a cat stove right?) there could be somthing going on with the flue.

is this a new install? is this a "new" stove to this flue? do we have the proper 10/3/2 rule in effect when flue was put in?

are all of your pipe joints sealed up tight?

lastly, how cold is it i see you are in SC  one thing thats hard to do sometimes especially with a shorter chimney is generate draft on a "no so cold" day. the temperatures between the flue and outside arent that different when cold starting so geting a hot chimney is a must when trying to burn on a day like that.


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## Chettt (Dec 10, 2011)

It's still 49F in Clover. See if it runs better tonight when it drops to 27.


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## Hardrockmaple (Dec 10, 2011)

Have you had a professional out to check it out? Do that before you quit trying and throw all that money away.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 10, 2011)

I bought the stove in 2009 used and have had problems every since then. It was on a 6" stove pipe to 6" brick chimney. Then I was told that it needs a 8" system even though the manual says either one is fine. There is no blockage in the system. The new 8" chimney system was finally installed in Feb. of this year. As far as I know it is the 10/3/2 rule. At the peak of my roof to the chimney is around 4' and the chimney is 3' above that and I have about 5' sticking out of my roof. As for the air flow the stove only has a sliding door to close off the air. The damper housing and cat box has no blockage. The rain cap has no blockage. The gaskets as far as I can tell are in right, except for below the door latch and the paper slides out with some tightness. The chimney system has about 75 hours of burn time so it is almost new. Yes I can order another 3' chimney pipe to get it higher. At this time that is one of two options and the other is to sale it and start over. If this stove does not work after another piece of 3' chimney pipe my options are very limited for another stove with an 8" flue.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 10, 2011)

Hardrockmaple said:
			
		

> Have you had a professional out to check it out? Do that before you quit trying and throw all that money away.


 Yes it cost me $75.00 to have a professional come out to look at it and he said it was fine.That was before I put the gaskets in. That was a waste of $75.00.


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## cordmaster (Dec 11, 2011)

Need to know what kind of stove this is for starters. If the new gaskets were put in wrong the stove would over heat beacuse too much air wood be getting into fire box. If this stove is a air tight down draft stove. check cat could be blocked up. this would cause your stove to choke. what is your temp outside when burning. I know allot of these new stoves dont like temps above 45 degrees. also check to see were your air control lever is.


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 11, 2011)

you have a short chimney and live in a warm climate  both of these things will work against you getting the stove hot


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

The after burner said:
			
		

> Need to know what kind of stove this is for starters. If the new gaskets were put in wrong the stove would over heat beacuse too much air wood be getting into fire box. If this stove is a air tight down draft stove. check cat could be blocked up. this would cause your stove to choke. what is your temp outside when burning. I know allot of these new stoves dont like temps above 45 degrees. also check to see were your air control lever is.



This stove is an Appalachian 52 date tested 1985. Last night temp was around 40* todays temp at 11:46 am around 50* No one knows anything about this stove except for a sales man that sells them. He said that this a good stove and has a long burn time. The gaskets are in right as far as I can tell. I have no cats in the stove. How can I over heat the stove when it is not getting enough air? Before I replaced the gaskets it was getting more then than now. I have several threads on here.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/82676/


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

It seems like every one wants me to spend more money on this stove but I keep spending money and just do not get anywhere with it.


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

Have you tried to warm up the chimney to get it to draw better?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Have you tried to warm up the chimney to get it to draw better?



Yes top down fire here what it looked like before the gaskets install.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/83822/


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## MarkinNC (Dec 11, 2011)

Is it made by Appalachian Stoves?  They are about 5 miles from me and I have been to the store/factory.  It does not seem to be a very high quality operation.  One of the reasons I now have a wood stove is because I have Appalachian gas logs.  I had them 9THE GAS LOGS) rebuilt in there "lab" and they still don't work good.  I would personally bail but maybe they can be of help to you?

http://www.appalachianstove.com/index.php

I noted there is no phone number on the web page hmmm 828-253-0564

Sorry about your troubles.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

MarkinNC said:
			
		

> Is it made by Appalachian Stoves?  They are about 5 miles from me and I have been to the store/factory.  It does not seem to be a very high quality operation.  One of the reasons I now have a wood stove is because I have Appalachian gas logs.  I had them 9THE GAS LOGS) rebuilt in there "lab" and they still don't work good.  I would personally bail but maybe they can be of help to you?
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> http://www.appalachianstove.com/index.php
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Yes that is them. You can find their phone number on a manual 828-253-0364. I hear that they have a skeleton crew. I have called them but they are not much help. If Appalachian keeps this up they will go out of business. central_scrutinizer is the only guy  that knows anything about Appalachian stove. Here are two quote from this thread.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/84551/



			
				central_scrutinizer said:
			
		

> I've been selling their stoves for years and years, and I sometimes can't get a response from them.  They have downsized a lot and are spread pretty thin these days.  Sucks for the customer.  We are as knowledgeable on Appalachian stoves as anyone.  I am sure we can get you what you need.  I sent you a PM with our website.  I am a little leery about getting too commercialized on here.  I don't want folks to think I'm trying to use the site as a market.





			
				central_scrutinizer said:
			
		

> While I admit that Appalachian has had some problems, especially recently, the 52 bay has been a great stove for many years.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

m thinking.... do you know if there is anywhere to download their manual online so i can maybe try to study this beast some?

im going on assumptions here , but the knob at the top above the door is the cat bypass right?

even though there is no cat in it do you open that when lighting? the bypass is meant to give an open easy path for exhaust to assist in getting the stove up to temp. if you have it closed even without the cat it may not want to fire up

whats in the "cat box" now , is it just eempty or is there a plate or somthing where the cat used to be?

lastly, you said your pipe was at least 3 ft over the nearest peak, does that mean there is a higher peak on the house further away?

can you post an outside shot of house showing the chimeny and the rest of the roof? to help i need to see the whole situation, the inside shot of the stove isnt necessary ive seen it. im looking to see what the outside looks like


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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what the heck is that magnet for on the front by the drsft control? is the draft control covered when you arent adjusting it??????


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## ansehnlich1 (Dec 11, 2011)

My gut instinct tells me there's not enough draft on this setup......the chimney may be too short. I searched the following for a recommended chimney height but found none....

http://www.fireplacesnow.com/pdf/appalachian_52-BAY_manual_08.pdf


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

ansehnlich1 said:
			
		

> My gut instinct tells me there's not enough draft on this setup......the chimney may be too short. I searched the following for a recommended chimney height but found none....
> 
> http://www.fireplacesnow.com/pdf/appalachian_52-BAY_manual_08.pdf


Thanks ansehnlich1. I have that manual. 
I guess every one is right about the height of the chimney, its 33* outside I have some kindling and two pieces of smoldering ECO bricks from this morning it looks like it is going pretty good. never mind it has died down in 5 minutes. The first pic is with the door ajar. The Second pic is with the door latched. The last pic is after 5 minutes. It is doing better then today. how good do the ECO brick burn?


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

ansehnlich1 said:
			
		

> My gut instinct tells me there's not enough draft on this setup......the chimney may be too short. I searched the following for a recommended chimney height but found none....
> 
> http://www.fireplacesnow.com/pdf/appalachian_52-BAY_manual_08.pdf




thanks for the PDF bro, though the manual wasnt all that informative (most arent) for what i was looking for. 

as for the issue in general, yeah i think its flue related as well though the 14 ft stack i would think would pull the stove if he's got the bypass open. what im concerned with is that we may have a different part of the roof not necessarily next to  the chimney which could be causing his issue. he had in a different thread talked about how the stove would burn one day not the next, and he had mentioned "the closest peak" in a post , im curious if there is another higher peak which even if several ft away can cause difficulty


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## Todd (Dec 11, 2011)

The stove looks like an insert sitting on top of some rock or concrete block? Where are the legs? Could there be another air inlet underneath the stove that's blocked?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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Maybe just not sure on the roof thing the other roof peak is 20' away and only a feet teller then the peak beside the chimney. That would be 2' teller then that roof peak that is 20' away. Should ECO brick take off like a rocket?  Thanks you all for you help.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Todd said:
			
		

> The stove looks like an insert sitting on top of some rock or concrete block? Where are the legs? Could there be another air inlet underneath the stove that's blocked?


 the legs are $200 And yes it is on stone cover blocked. There are no other air intakes on the stove. I have looked all over the stove. just a simple stove with a cat.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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eco bricks are like a big azzed pellet, they need a good kindling base establiched. they are very dry but quite dense so they can ba hard to start a fire with.

are you running with the bypass open?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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That is for a door that covers the fan, Air intake and ash pan.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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Yes until I can get it up to temp then close it.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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i assume that you arent able to get it up to temp now though cause you cant get a fire going? ok was just checking. 

im still "grinding" on this one, its harder cause i dont know the stove per se.  can you even get a kindling fire started with the door cracked open? or does it blow smoke at you even with slightly cracked door?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Here is a pic of my roof. Please over look my house that I kind of inherited. I was working on it when I messed may back up.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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Yes I can get the kindling going with the door open but if I close the door even after 45mins it dies.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Here is a pic of my roof. Please over look my house that I kind of inherited. I was working on it when I massed may back up.



hey , no worries on the house. its a roof, better than many have. the flue setup looks fine hard to tell from teh angle but it seems to be ok, so we'll let that one go, its not a 10-3-2 rule issue.

next thing, your other post said you CAN build a kindling fire but when yo uclose the door no matter how hot you get it it dies out right?
this is good in a way , it means the flue is pulling, but bad as its not pulling strong enough through the stove to pull it when the door is closed. 

are the joints in the single wall sealed with a sealer? or taped so we have no air intrusion in the pipe joints? this wouldnt matter with an old cast iron leak box but it does with a welded out (airtight) stove. you see , chimneys are lazy, they will pill all they can from the easiest point they can get it. when the door is cracked, its easy, when door shuts its harder as the openings arent as big as the doorway. so the chimney will pull through leaks in pipe joints, at teh collar or anywhere else it can get air easier than through the stove. OUR TASK is to take away these options and force the chimney to have to pull through the stove. assuming the pipes arent sealed up


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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what about splits, will they burn off the kindling with the door cracked? and they even die when door is shut?


stay with me on this, we'll figure it out, im too hardheaded to  just give up on it


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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No the stove pipe is not sealed.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

I had a hard time getting the stove pipe in. so taped will have do for now. I will have to go to lowe's tomorrow to get the tape.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> I had a hard time getting the stove pipe in. so taped will have do for now.



ok, taped is ok. were they already taped or are you saying you will tape them. 

if the pipes arent currently sealed it may have quite a bit to do with the problem. so , definately , get some of the silver tape and hit every  seam you can find. if you want to see if this is an issue first, take a lit  match, after getting your fire started, and closing the door  trace the lit match around the seams and joints ogf the pipe see if the flame is pulled toward the seam.

EDIT: im getting growled at, gonna have to call it a night. i'll check back in the morning.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

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Same times if the door is open good fire. Close the door the fire dies  dies out with no flames. Now that manual you have is for the new 52 bay stove.It uses the Phase 2 damper housing it uses 4 cats my stove is phase 1 uses two cats.


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## remkel (Dec 11, 2011)

It seems to me it is an air intake issue.

Before new gaskets- fire fine
After new gaskets- fire not fine

Change? New gaskets are not allowing as much air into the stove as you had going in there before. I would check your air intakes IMHO.


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

Remkel said:
			
		

> It seems to me it is an air intake issue.
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> Before new gaskets- fire fine
> After new gaskets- fire not fine
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 Ok you answered my question (forgot how this started) the fire was ok with the old gaskets?


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## shawneyboy (Dec 11, 2011)

Remkel said:
			
		

> It seems to me it is an air intake issue.
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> Before new gaskets- fire fine
> After new gaskets- fire not fine
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+1 to this.  I have to wonder as was put earlier if the intake is being blocked by support stones since the stove has no legs.


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## Trktrd (Dec 11, 2011)

I had all these same issues when getting my Ashley up and running. I found the best cure was sealing the joints in the single wall connector pipe and extending the chimney. Imagine drinking through a straw with holes in it. Same goes with a chimney. These stoves are dependant on a good draft to operate properly.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Remkel said:
			
		

> It seems to me it is an air intake issue.
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> Before new gaskets- fire fine
> After new gaskets- fire not fine
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That maybe. I think it is a poor design on the air intake on the stove IMO. I am going to check the stove pipe with incense to see if it draws air in round the joints. I have rechecked the stove for leaks with incense and it is not drawing any air except for the air intake.


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 11, 2011)

i would try extending the chimney you can try it with some black pipe as a test i wsould start with the a 3ft extention


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

Some good advice here with the cheap extension, if that dont work try checking for air leaks with a doobie.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

shawneyboy said:
			
		

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The stove can be used as a insert or a free standing. If it is used as an insert the stove is setting on the floor. IMO I can see how it would draw air from the bottom if it is on the floor. But what do I know I am not a chimney scientist. That way I am here asking the scientist what to do. Thanks for your help.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> i would try extending the chimney you can try it with some black pipe as a test i wsould start with the a 3ft extention



I Will have to find some one to put it on.


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

Excuse me if this was asked, how is that setting on the stone, could it be raised up to check underneath?


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## Troutchaser (Dec 11, 2011)

I'd say it's likely that your new gaskets stopped some air leakage into the stove that used to keep your fire stoked.
Leave the bypass open until a good bed of coals and fresh stuff burning.  With a small fire/little heat, closing that bypass can snuff a fire.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Troutchaser said:
			
		

> I'd say it's likely that you're new gaskets stopped some air leakage into the stove that used to keep your fire stoked.
> Leave the bypass open until a good bed of coals and fresh stuff burning.  With a small fire/little heat, closing that bypass can snuff a fire.



That what I am doing right now. so far so good. It is 47* outside. damper and air is wide open, Stove top at 350* and stove pipe at 250* 5 mins in to the burn. useing just wood.


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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 Those temps look real good so far, what did you do different?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Excuse me if this was asked, how is that setting on the stone, could it be raised up to check underneath?



I can see if I can get some one to help me to raise it up.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

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Same old start up nothing different except for I am using real fire wood no ECO bricks. Same kindle


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Stove top temps just drop to 300* wood is starved for air now. The chimney has two small leaks about an 1" long. One at the top pipe joint and one at the bottom pipe joint. I used incense to find them. Stove is holding at 300* everything wide open?


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Stove top temps just drop to 300* wood is starved for air now. The chimney has two small leaks about an 1" long. One at the top pipe joint and one at the bottom pipe joint. I used incense to find them. Stove is holding at 300* everything wide open?


 You can plug those leaks right, good place to start and cheap furnace cement will do it, 300 wide open is not good, not sure any thing you do is going to make it better, a stove working even half assed should get hotter than that wide open.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes the furnace cement is cheaper then the stove pipe. Will this make a different it is usually colder in my house then outside?


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## oldspark (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Yes the furnace cement is cheaper then the stove pipe. Will this make a different it is usually colder in my house then outside?


 That is not helping one bit.


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

With my old fisher, you could look straight up the flue if you stuck your head in the stove.  Only thing that kept stuff from flying straight up the chimney was a pipe damper.

Even w/ that as inefficient as it was, I could make that thing glow I so choose.  

Point is, w/ your bypass open you should be basically in the same situation I was in assuming your fire is getting air, your fuel is dry enough to burn.

Does air get drawn into your unit through the front where you control lever is?  Do you have an air compressor?  I'm wondering if this thing has sat and there is something in there blocking the air getting in.  If you don't have an air compressor, at least try a hair dryer and see if blowing air right into the intake makes a difference with the fire.  Maybe there are air intakes in this stove that are blocked by ash?

Another thought, how much wood are you putting in the stove?  If you are only putting in a few pieces of wood and it isn't well seasoned, you aren't going to do well.  How full have you loaded it up on hot coals?
How are you loading the wood?  If the firebox is deep enough, I'd suggest loading it front to back (north-south).

What kind of wood are you using?  How long has it been drying?  Maybe try splitting it smaller?  If you just jut putting rounds and not splits into the stove, that can make a big difference as well.

You'll get there!  Be patient and keep playing!

pen


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> With my old fisher, you could look straight up the flue if you stuck your head in the stove.  Only thing that kept stuff from flying straight up the chimney was a pipe damper.
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The fire wood is between 1 and 2 years old. The guy I got it from is a friend of mien. before the new gaskets have put 6 splits in and got it up to 550* stove top. Eco bricks 2 bricks so far. With the ECO bricks I used some thing from Lowe's to start the fire yesterday. N/S Is how I have been loading this way after I read it here. It was working better good until the new gaskets. As for the cats bypass when it is open it opens up in to the fire box.


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

Any way to check to make sure the air intake isn't restricted or plugged w/ ash somewhere?  Have you figured out where the air enters the stove?

Also, when using the eco bricks I'd mix them in w/ reg wood.

pen


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> Any way to check to make sure the air intake isn't restricted or plugged w/ ash somewhere?  Have you figured out where the air enters the stove?
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> Also, when using the eco bricks I'd mix them in w/ reg wood.
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Using an hair dryer got some glowing red embers. this is all the air intake I can find.


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

with temps near 50, you don't have that much draft to work with but still see no reason this cant get up to 550 if the fuel is good (which is sounds like it is) and air is getting to the fire, and the fuel is loaded in a way that is conducive to burning.  

Next time you load it on coals take a pic of how you have the wood loaded in there.  For small burns when it's not that cold, I like using 3 splits, 2 on the bottom, one on the top like and upside down V.  That's about the minimum I'll put in the stove at any time.  

Another option is to just give up until it gets down into the 30's, then load the stove right up and see what a full box will do for you.

pen


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

I wish some of you wood stove sciences lived around me so you can come over an help me out. I will try the V thing got to get the wood burn up thats in there.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Has any one every seen a wood stove side windows gaskets 3/4 on the windows and not at the top? The old gaskets where missing at the top of the side window. I just assumed after 26 years that the gaskets was burn off at the top. If air come in at the top of the windows it would cause the glass to be black right?


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

might have actually served as a primitive air wash.

The same amount was missing on both side windows?

pen


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> might have actually served as a primitive air wash.
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Yes the same amount was missing on both side windows. So you seen this before?


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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Not personally, but I wouldn't doubt it's possible.  If the same amount is missing from both sides that certainly seems as though that it as it should be.

pen


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

I will try calling Appalachian tomorrow to mack sure.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 11, 2011)

Seems like this stove needs a lot of work and it will require a good amount of money to get the stove functioning properly with the catalysts.

At this point, you would be better off spending the same or less on a one of the nice used stoves I provided links to a few weeks ago.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Seems like this stove needs a lot of work and it will require a good amount of money to get the stove functioning properly with the catalysts.
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> At this point, you would be better off spending the same or less on a one of the nice used stoves I provided links to a few weeks ago.



That what I am starting to see myself. It kind a reminds me of one of those old car you keep putting money and nothing help. Nickel and dime you to the poor house.

My options are few for a wood stove with an 8" SS class A chimney.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hsh/2721645246.html

http://athensga.craigslist.org/app/2729294217.html

I might be able to buy one at tax time  if I get any money back. Just don't have the money to go out right now an buy one. Have to use it until I can do better. What to do with the old one scrap it? I just could not pass it on like it is.

 I have thought of drilling holes in the front on the door and put some knobs to be able to control the air intake but then you have to worry about over firring the stove.


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## cordmaster (Dec 11, 2011)

If you run your wood stove with door open does the fire burn okay, or still starving for air? Bio bricks are tough to light because they are so dense. You need kindling wood to establish coals. Looked up your stove and it says it has a cat. If they have been removed you could have a build up of ash in the ports. You said the stove ran fine before the new gaskets. in what condition was the old ones like. They could of been leaking before new install.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

The after burner said:
			
		

> If you run your wood stove with door open does the fire burn okay,



Yes it burns like a rocket.



			
				The after burner said:
			
		

> Bio bricks are tough to light because they are so dense. You need kindling wood to establish coals.



First time using them. Yes it was hard to lit.




			
				The after burner said:
			
		

> Looked up your stove and it says it has a cat. If they have been removed you could have a build up of ash in the ports. You said the stove ran fine before the new gaskets. in what condition was the old ones like. They could of been leaking before new install.



I have know ideal the cats was missing when I bought the stove. Not sure about the ash build up the drawing of the air intake you can see it makes can of hard to get down in it to clean.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Sorry if I get old but it is getting cold in my house. I am At 65* inside my house. What would you do if you had my stove?


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## pen (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Sorry if I get old but it is getting cold in my house. I am At 65* inside my house. What would you do if you had my stove?



I'd be asking for help on Hearth.com and doing what you are doing. 

I think calling Appalachian is a smart move.  If the problem is as simple as the gaskets you closed up, that's simple enough.  

This stove will run no where near its actual efficiency w/out the cat, but it can run, and can give you heat in the meantime so long as you figure out what it takes to get some air into that thing.  

I think you will find that gasket needs to come out that you added.

I would also find a buddy w/ an air compressor (portable pancake style or similar) and I'd blow air through that beast to make sure the air isn't restricted somewhere.  God knows what is in that thing being a used unit.  

I'd also make sure my fuel is split small so that you have the best chance at a hot burn fast.

You gotta do what you gotta do.  Keep safety first in mind, keep that chimney clean, and so long as the instal is safe you can burn it however you are able to to get through the winter.

I'm an advocate of doing it right.  But sometimes there comes a time where just worrying about safety and doing the best one can is the most practical thing.  I have seen MUCH worse setups being used for years at a time.  You are concerned enough to be asking here so I'm figuring you'll keep a careful eye on the chimney and clearance to combustibles, etc as well.

pen


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## fsr4538 (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Sorry if I get old but it is getting cold in my house. I am At 65* inside my house. What would you do if you had my stove?



If the option is replacing the stove at tax time and you will not pass the stove along and may scrap it.....  Just run it with the door cracked open and get the most heat out of it that you can.  I have been following this thread and just can not figure out what else to advise you. (I am certainly not even close to an expert.)


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

pen you got that right about safety. I have a air compressor just don't' know if it will work but I well try anything At this point. waiting on it to cool down before I do that. As for the cat's they want do much until I can get it up to temp for them to run and I am concerned about damage them with the air problem. If the air compressor does not clean out any thing I am going to take out the upper gasket on the windows for now and call Appalachian tomorrow to see if they will tell me anything on it.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Sorry if I get old but it is getting cold in my house. I am At 65* inside my house. What would you do if you had my stove?




Can't tell since I'm not there.

You are running a stove that is a cat stove running without cats. You replaced gaskets and now the stove is supposedly starved for air and are unsure if you should not have gasketed certain portions of the stove. You are running the stove in warmer weather with a chimney that is too short. Every step of the way you seem to be guessing as oppose to trying to get the stove functioning in a proper manner.

What would I do? I would look to the manual, determine what needs gaskets. Remove all gaskets. Scrape and clean off all existing cement. I would install the catalysts. I would thoroughly clean the stove. I would be sure the airways are clean and not blocked. I would then reinstall all the gaskets. Most of all, I would have done this before the weather became cold like I did with the Encore and Vigilant this summer.

I bought an Encore for $350 this summer. I could have just installed it and hoped it worked. Instead I completely disassembled the stove. Thoroughly cleaned it. Re-cemented areas in need. Cleaned the bolts so they functioned properly. Removed all gaskets. Scraped the gasket grooves clean. Re-installed all gaskets (back panel, two doors, the griddle, the ash pan chamber, the ash pan door, the damper). I cleaned the catalysts and the assembly. I vacuumed the firebox and burn chamber. I inspected the air controls. I made sure the stove was functioning properly before the weather turned.

If I did not do this and the stove ended up not performing properly I would have had no idea why this was happening. Now if an issue occurs I have a complete understanding of how the stove should function and all the areas that I should inspect.

I am relying on these stoves to provide heat for me and my family. I need to know how they function and I need to perform proper maintenance on them. If I am not willing to do this, I need to find another solution for my heating needs.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

fsr4538 said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
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How can I sale the stove to someone with all the problems I have had. When they ask this been a good wood stove. I have no way of latching the door cracked open. But I can run it with the ash pan cracked open. just keep a eye on it. Thanks for you options. Stan


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## fsr4538 (Dec 11, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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I was not suggesting you sell the stove to someone; just acknowledging your earlier statement that you would not.  Have you actually gone up to the roof and checked the cap to see if it is clogged?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
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I wish you were here you would probably blow the stove up. I am not a wood stove scientist so I have no clue a wood stove can be so demanding. I paid a chimney professional that also sells parts for the stove to come out to check everything and they said it looks good! A big waste of money. When we are POOR and I am DISABLED we are on our on. AS for the manual there is no where in it that tells how to put the gaskets in. If you call Appalachian you might get someone and you might not. I cleaned and vacuumed on a regular basis and I scraped the place where the gaskets go, cleaned it out really good for the new gaskets. I replaced all the gaskets. How can I put cats in the stove without damaging them when the cats has to be up to 500* before I close the bypass down to run the cats.


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## cordmaster (Dec 11, 2011)

Look in owners manual and see if you can run your stove in fire place setting. This way here you can get some heat. You would have to leave your door open and adjust air control so you wont over heat your stove. Next I would call dealer to see where cat goes. I bet that ports are clogged with soot and ash. Thats why when you close door stove starves for air. Stove should run with 6" pipe.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

fsr4538 said:
			
		

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 Oh okay. No I am not able to go up on the roof I have health problems. I have looked up the chimney from inside the stove it looks clear.


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## fsr4538 (Dec 11, 2011)

Go grab some 2X4 or other lumber scrap.  I mean a big arm load, not just enough to use as starter.  See if using a good amount of that will allow the temps to rise.  

Also, after looking at the manual, make sure that when you push the bypass knob in (it should be in to be open) that you feel or hear the bypass actually working and moving inside the stove.  

The lumber scraps should burn hot and allow a good fire.  Keep building the fire up with scraps until you have a good roaring fire.  Fill the firebox with it as long as your temp is staying low.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

As you all can see the bypass is just a rod and it is working just fine.


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## cordmaster (Dec 11, 2011)

In diagram you can now see where the cat is top front of stove. Does it have it like shown in picture? On monday let stove cool down blow out with compressed air. also look into a new one at dealer. I bet that cat is loaded I think this will solve your problem. For now see if you can use it with the door open. Fireplace setting. I had the same problem with my TL300 Harmen combustion chamber had 3" of ash behind it. I had to tear all the fire brick out of it. ash was behing shoe brick. stove wood die right out once you put dry oak in when you closed the lever down.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

The after burner said:
			
		

> In diagram you can now see where the cat is top front of stove. Does it have it like shown in picture? On monday let stove cool down blow out with compressed air. also look into a new one at dealer. I bet that cat is loaded I think this will solve your problem. For now see if you can use it with the door open. Fireplace setting. I had the same problem with my TL300 Harmen combustion chamber had 3" of ash behind it. I had to tear all the fire brick out of it. ash was behing shoe brick. stove wood die right out once you put dry oak in when you closed the lever down.



I know how the cats is in there. I do not have any cats in the stove. I do not have the cats for the stove.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 11, 2011)

Cruising at 350* looks like that the best I can for now.


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## rwhite (Dec 11, 2011)

I am a fan of the new EPA stoves but if you need heat and that one won't work I think I'd be looking for an old smoke dragon and risk burning a cord or two more a year. They can be had cheap and they served a lot of people well for years. There is nothing to figure out on them.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 12, 2011)

the more i think about this the more im thinking the stove is trying to "fuel' the cats when they arent there.


i should have caught this earlier (my fault)

cat stoves are designed to burn a low smoky fire to feed the cats which provide  a large portin of the heating load. early cat stoves were not very good at this and were extremely tempermental even when the cats were installed. they needed a very large air budget to really perform.  without the cats there to reburn the smoke we have no real method of generating heat as the stove was intended, so we have a stove which is "jetted" to burn low and slow with no afterburn available to take advantage of this kind of burn.

if im right  there may not be an "inexpensive " solution for this.


lemme think on this some more, i'll be back


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 12, 2011)

i really think extending that chimney will help you out it is a cheap test to do and may fix the problem try extending that chimney with some stove pipe and see what happens


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> the more i think about this the more im thinking the stove is trying to "fuel' the cats when they arent there.
> 
> 
> i should have caught this earlier (my fault)
> ...



You may be right on that. I have to get the temp up to 500* to get the cats to fire after that I would be good for a slow burn. I just can not get the stove up to 500* After the gaskets. I may have to get some really dry wood to do that with.Thanks for you help. Stan


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> i really think extending that chimney will help you out it is a cheap test to do and may fix the problem try extending that chimney with some stove pipe and see what happens


 I will go to Lowe's tomorrow to get the pipe to see if that will help. Thanks for you help. Stan


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## Hogwildz (Dec 12, 2011)

Just came from installing Blues liner. He has an Appalacian.
He had no gasket on the upper part of the door glass. It appears to be the air wash. If you had the same thing, and added gasket up top, then there is your problem.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 12, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Just came from installing Blues liner. He has an Appalacian.
> He had no gasket on the upper part of the door glass. It appears to be the air wash. If you had the same thing, and added gasket up top, then there is your problem.



OD'ed on hot chocolate eh? Blue has a Sierra Hearthstove.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Just came from installing Blues liner. He has an Appalacian.
> He had no gasket on the upper part of the door glass. It appears to be the air wash. If you had the same thing, and added gasket up top, then there is your problem.



I had no gasket at the top of my side windows the door glass had a gasket all the way round. But it has a small piece of metal at the top of the glass. I know for sure tomorrow.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 12, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Hogwildz said:
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OOps, BArt is right, strike my post. 
I must be tired. ANd have to run all the way to Philly tomorrow. 
Cmon weekend!


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
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 Do you thinks Blue can get me photo of his door glass gasket. I am waiting for Appalachian teck to call me back. But what I was told so far is the gaskets in my stove are install right. hh:


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

Will Appalachian said the gaskets are installed right. I appreciate all the help from you guys. I'll try the stove pipe and air compressor a see if that will help. But It is looking like the stove is a lost cause.


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## leeave96 (Dec 12, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Will Appalachian said the gaskets are installed right. I appreciate all the help from you guys. I'll try the stove pipe and air compressor a see if that will help. But It is looking like the stove is a lost cause.



Until you put in the catalyist combustor in this stove and burn it in the context in which it was designed, you can forget about it being a useful heating stove - ain't going to happen.  Try the cat or punt to another stove.

Good luck,
Bill


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

leeave96 said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
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Can you run a cat stove at 350*? That is how hot I can get it I can't get any hotter. It does not take in enough air to burn.
Thanks for you help. Stan


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## madison (Dec 12, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> *...lost cause....*



I would agree with your above statement.


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## jtb51b (Dec 12, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Can you run a cat stove at 350*? That is how hot I can get it I can't get any hotter. It does not take in enough air to burn.
> Thanks for you help. Stan



YES YES YES..

You are measuring the STOVE CASE. The Cat will see a lot higher temps and therefore reach its lightoff point.. At that point you will see the stovetop temps just up to much closer to the operating range. On a stove like yours the cat heats the stove not the other way around, at least past the point of holding the fire long enough to warm the CAT..  I hope I explained this in the way I was hoping, I am not so good with words...

Jason


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

jtb51b said:
			
		

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Now this gives me a little hope for this stove. Just wish I know for sure you are right. Thank for you help. Stan


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## North of 60 (Dec 12, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Can you run a cat stove at 350*? That is how hot I can get it I can't get any hotter. It does not take in enough air to burn.
> Thanks for you help. Stan



You are putting the heat up your stack.  No cat, bypass open.  Nothing is gonna heat up that stove without melting your chimney.

I run my stove @ 300 to 350f most of the year.  Stack @ 225, even less once into the burn.
Again, you are running with less than 1/2 the stove.  Its not gonna give you the normal outcome of a regular stove.  Hard to answer your questions with all of your variables.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 12, 2011)

north of 60 said:
			
		

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Oh great now I have to worry about melting my chimney. You cat people art to know more about the cat stove then I do. Thanks for you help. Stan


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## jtb51b (Dec 12, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

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Back when my stove was all correct I recoded some numbers for my own benefit. If I was running at 1.5 on my thermostat (range of 1-3) I had a cat temp of about 1200 degrees and a stovetop of 500 degrees, my stack was about 200 degrees. The more air I gave it (2.0-2.5) the hotter the stove top would get (up to 700 before I couldn't stand the heat) and the pipe never stayed over 400 even at those temps! I bet it would have dropped lower if I could have stood to let the stove level out before I cut it back.. The CAT makes all the difference, without it your just wasting wood.  I know its a crapload of cash for the cats but I really can't see you getting by without them. If they were there and didn't work at least they would slow the gasses down some, but with them OUT is just a race to the top of the chimney.. I am not a guru and might be wrong, but I have recently talked to a couple of VERY smart folks regarding cat stoves and I think I have learned a lot.

Jason


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Now I understand how a cat stove works. Thank you all on your help with this problem of mine.


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## Trktrd (Dec 13, 2011)

I got my stove from the previous owner for free because he was going through the same thing, Stan. I was happy to relieve him of it. Cats were missing and the stove was uncontrollable. Popped in the new cats and BINGO - a well mannered heating machine.


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## bluedogz (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Hogwildz said:
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Stan, if you can tell me what you want a photo of I can send on on Saturday.  Hope it'll help.

What Hogz is referring to is that my Sierra Hearthstove has a rudimentary air wash system by leaving gaps in the gasket across the top of the door glass.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Trktrd said:
			
		

> I got my stove from the previous owner for free because he was going through the same thing, Stan. I was happy to relieve him of it. Cats were missing and the stove was uncontrollable. Popped in the new cats and BINGO - a well mannered heating machine.



I hope so. When my wife got home late night from work. I had her read the last couple thread and she I guess we need to get the cats for the stove. We were both skeptical of putting more money in to the stove. We are wanting on the cats. I hope it works after that.


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## Adios Pantalones (Dec 13, 2011)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> you have a short chimney and live in a warm climate  both of these things will work against you getting the stove hot



Yup.  I agree.  You may need to keep the primary air open a bit more to fire this stove.  New gaskets reduces the air coming in.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

bluedogz said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
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We where trying to figure out if my windows gaskets were in right at the top of the windows. Hogwildz say,



			
				Hogwildz said:
			
		

> Just came from installing Blues liner.
> He had no gasket on the upper part of the door glass. It appears to be the air wash. If you had the same thing, and added gasket up top, then there is your problem.



I called Appalachian and they said my gaskets where in right. So I guess I will not need a photo of you gaskets. Thank you Blue.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> stoveguy13 said:
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 I am sorry I do not understand. Primary air do you mean the door being cracked?


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## BrotherBart (Dec 13, 2011)

Primary air is the stove's air control.


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## Adios Pantalones (Dec 13, 2011)

The damper


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## oldspark (Dec 13, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> The damper


 The damper is not the primary air, the damper is the flap in the stove pipe us old timers used in the good old days.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Sorry guy if I am a little cloudy today. In a lot of pain. My 25 year old stove has a damper housing that has a slid plate damper bypass at the top of the stove. When the bypass is open it opens the firebox to the chimney. I have one air intake "primary air" and it is not drawing enough air right now with out having the door cracked for a long time to get the stove hot. I hope that after the cat are in it will fix the problem. Just do not know for sure.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> It seems like every one wants me to spend more money on this stove but I keep spending money and just do not get anywhere with it.



I have to disagree with that statement. Many have advised not spending any money on this old stove and instead replacing it with a modern, under $1000 stove. These suggestions have been resisted, so in response people have tried to help you get the stove in shape. 

If the gasket replacement has slowed airflow to the point that the stove can't keep a fire up, then either its intake is blocked (with cobewebs, dust, ash or the like). Or it is getting insufficient draft. If the wood is poorly seasoned, it will make the situation worse. Can we assume that now the stove will not draft well even with the bypass wide open?

If this is the case, try to remove the intake grille if possible and get a good strong shop vac in there to suck it out. Then find all the outlet areas where the air enters the firebox and vacuum them out. Actually, the most effective treatment would be to take the stove outside and blow compressed air through the intake and air passages to get them completely cleared. Also, check the stove cap screen to make sure it is not starting to plug up.

Regardless of the problem, adding a cat at this point is unlikely to solve the issue. If all passages are clear than it could be that the stove just needs more flue to create better draft now that air can no longer seep in like it did past many gaps in the gaskets.


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## Adios Pantalones (Dec 13, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
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That is a pipe or flue damper.  His manual describes the primary air control as a "damper control" or something similar.  I looked up his manual so that he'd have a reference.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

I am sorry Begreen you guys are not the only one I have talk to. Some keep saying add more chimney hight. I am just sick and tired of my problem. I have vacuum out the air intake just need to hobble out to the shared and get the air compressor out to blow out the intakes inside the house there is noway for me getting the stove outside. Has for the stove cap screen if that is on the chimney or in the stove I do not have one. Will I have not seen a screen any where on the stove system.


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## oldspark (Dec 13, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
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 Ok, the terms get mixed up a lot and now it sounds like the manual is even doing it.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Begreen I have had one guy tell me I might need one of them there constant draft chimney fan system. 
I called my friend who I got the wood from and he said that it was 2 years old split He said he will bring me some 4 year old stuff.
I have tried 2x4s after the new gaskets, door cracked burn good, latch the door and it smolders.


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## begreen (Dec 13, 2011)

OK, I was fooled by the picture of the roof. It shows a cap on the system. Is that the old 6" pipe system or the new 8" pipe? https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/85561/P22/#1034927

Try to do a very good job of cleaning out the air intake manifold and let us know if that helps.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> OK, I was fooled by the picture of the roof. It shows a cap on the system. Is that the old 6" pipe system or the new 8" pipe? https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/85561/P22/#1034927
> 
> Try to do a very good job of cleaning out the air intake manifold and let us know if that helps.



No that is the 8" system but they is no srceen in it. Here is a pic of my cap.


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## Todd (Dec 13, 2011)

If your having a tuff time burning with the bypass open and door closed it will only get worse when you install the cat and close the bypass. The cat acts almost like a damper inside the stove and slows down the draft. Sounds like it's either a chimney problem or something is blocking the primary air for the stove. I'd hold off on spending money for the cats if you can't even burn this thing in the bypass mode which should be a straight shot up the flue. Maybe some mice got in there and built a nest somewhere blocking the air?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Guys I know you all are doing you best to help me.  I wish one of you lived near me to see what you can do with the stove I have. It is just frustrating because of the shape I am in to get anything done. At this time it is not feasible for me and my wife to do anything until the money is there. I have hope it will be sooner than later. I have to much money in the SS Class a chimney to damaged it by milting it with to much heat up the chimney. As for blowing it there has not been much to come out of the intakes but hopefully it is enough.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

I will go to Lowe's today and buy the stove pipe to put on the chimney top to see if that will help it draft better. Then see if one of my sons can out it on for me. And clean that cap at the same time.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> I will go to Lowe's today and buy the stove pipe to put on the chimney top to see if that will help it draft better. Then see if one of my sons can out it on for me. And clean that cap at the same time.




I really think that is a waste of time and money at this point.


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## pip3398 (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Guys I know you all are doing you best to help me.  I wish one of you lived near me to see what you can do with the stove I have. It is just frustrating because of the shape I am in to get anything done. At this time it is not feasible for me and my wife to do anything until the money is there. I have hope it will be sooner than later. I have to much money in the SS Class a chimney to damaged it by milting it with to much heat up the chimney. As for blowing it there has not been much to come out of the intakes but hopefully it is enough.



Stan,  I have just read through all of the posts on this thread and figured I had better comment.  Adding Cat's at this point will not help anything.  Do not spend money on them until the stove is drafting correctly.

You either have a lack of draft or a blocked air intake.  You need to add a section of pipe (probably 3') of single wall at the chimney top. A chimney is supposed to act as like a vacuum cleaner sucking the smoke out of the house.  When the door is open, there is enough unrestricted air through the chimney for the stove to burn.  When you close the door you need a lot more suction to remove the smoke and bring oxygen fresh air into the firebox.  If you were to put a draft gauge on your chimney, I am sure it would have a very low reading.  

Your stove as it sits without the cats is no different than an old timberline or fisher and those stoves would heat up with no problem.  Most any stove and chimney will burn fine with the door open regardless of if the chimney is drafting or not.  Heat rising with plenty of fresh air will overcome a poor draft.  The difference is that when you have proper draft it will be able to draw through the small air openings of the stove.  

A 3' piece of single wall is only $20.  Get one and push the corrugated end into your chimney with no cap.  I think you will see the stove burn better right away.  If the chimney doesn't draft well, than no stove will work well there.  

As to you saying you need an 8" flue stove now, that would be incorrect.  Most stoves with 6" flues are approved to hook up to 8" chimneys with a reducer.

If this works make sure you get the proper pipe for when it gets cold.  When temps drop you need insulated pipe all the way up.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





			
				pip3398 said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, What did you say again sorry with so many replies. BrowningBAR I just not remember?
Some say get a new wood stove and some say fix the one I have. 
Some say get a piece of single wall stove pipe it will help.
Lowe's only has 2' single wall stove pipe @ $15.00 and I just said I will get it. And then some say no waste of time and money at this point
I am so confused and do not know what to do at this point.......... :-S


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Take a moment and review BeGreen's response:



			
				BeGreen said:
			
		

> I have to disagree with that statement. Many have advised not spending any money on this old stove and instead replacing it with a modern, under $1000 stove. These suggestions have been resisted, so in response people have tried to help you get the stove in shape.
> 
> If the gasket replacement has slowed airflow to the point that the stove can't keep a fire up, then either its intake is blocked (with cobewebs, dust, ash or the like). Or it is getting insufficient draft. If the wood is poorly seasoned, it will make the situation worse. Can we assume that now the stove will not draft well even with the bypass wide open?
> 
> ...


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## pip3398 (Dec 13, 2011)

Stan,
   For $15. you can find out if you have a draft problem.  When you bring in your air compressor you can blow out the intakes and make sure they are clean.  One or both of these things is the problem.  

Cat's will not increase draft.  

I've been working with wood stoves for 25 years. Draft is the most important thing with any wood stove.


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 13, 2011)

pip3398 said:
			
		

> Stan,
> For $15. you can find out if you have a draft problem.  When you bring in your air compressor you can blow out the intakes and make sure they are clean.  One or both of these things is the problem.
> 
> Cat's will not increase draft.
> ...




There are other problems than just the draft.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Ok guys just blew out the intake it was fairly clean. Now need to get someone on the roof to get the cap down so I can clean it.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I need to add, some say buy the cats and some say don't buy the cats.
Guys your arguments for both side of my problem makes sense to me. But I am still so confused and do not know what to do at this point.......... :-S


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> pip3398 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, BrowningBAR can you ran though the list of problems that you think may be playing a roll in my problems with the stove. Now you can't use I am just an unlucky guy. lol


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## BrowningBAR (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Again, review BeGreen's posts.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Let me make sure I am right on the #1 thing BeGreen Said is buy a new wood stove. Is this true?
If yes this is true. Then I should stop worrying about my old wood stove and just wait on the new one. YES?


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## Chettt (Dec 13, 2011)

Stan, the Mayan's say the world is going to end in 2012, just get a flatulent dog and a candle and wait for the end.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Chettt said:
			
		

> Stan, the Mayan's say the world is going to end in 2012, just get a flatulent dog and a candle and wait for the end.


LOL :lol:


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## Troutchaser (Dec 13, 2011)

Stan,
It sounds like the common theme here is primary air and draft.  You'll just have to thoroughly evaluate both and find the problem.  
Hell, you can stick a 55 gallon drum in there and use it for a stove if you wanted.  It just takes air to enter, a box for fuel, and something of a drafting exhaust.  All the rest is bells and whistles.  
Nothing wrong with your stove other than one of those two things.  We all have an opinion on which it is.  You'll have to tear into it.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Sorry guy for resisting your suggestions just trying to keep warm until I can get a new stove.


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## pip3398 (Dec 13, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> Let me make sure I am right on the #1 thing BeGreen Said is buy a new wood stove. Is this true?
> If yes this is true. Then I should stop worrying about my old wood stove and just wait on the new one. YES?



Stan,  To get straight on what I was saying, I agree with BeGreen that you need a new non cat stove, but if the fire won't burn with things wide open you likely have no draft.  A new stove won't fix that.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Troutchaser said:
			
		

> Stan,
> It sounds like the common theme here is primary air and draft.  You'll just have to thoroughly evaluate both and find the problem.
> Hell, you can stick a 55 gallon drum in there and use it for a stove if you wanted.  It just takes air to enter, a box for fuel, and something of a drafting exhaust.  All the rest is bells and whistles.
> Nothing wrong with your stove other than one of those two things.  We all have an opinion on which it is.  You'll have to tear into it.



1.)I have taking it apart the stove is clean out so the stove should draw in the air.
2.) I need to see if the chimney cap is clean.
3.) Most everyone has said I need more chimney. "Do the chimney test" but then I was told do not do the test it would not help.
4.) I have made sure the wood is dry to the best of my abilities with the test to the face, hitting them together and ask the friend who I got it from.
5.) Still have to get a MM.
6.) Tried 2x4s no luck
7.) Tried  ECO brick no luck
8.) Put new gaskets in made the draft worse.
9.)Get the cats or get a new wood stove.
10.) I have a 120 year old drafty house.

So what well it hurt if I try the chimney test to see if that will help or not?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

I know I am hard headed but I am going to try the chimney pipe test to see if that helps. until I can get a new stove this one will have to do.


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## oldspark (Dec 13, 2011)

You  have nothing to lose except a few dollars.


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 13, 2011)

Stan, Remember, we fight for our draft down here more than folks do up north. All draft boils down to is colder outside than in and especially until we get really cold in January that's easier to get up north. Our chimneys have to be nearly perfect to draw well. That usually means extra height, furnace cement in the joints and insulated class-A helps as well. I am NOT calling your wood green, but with the lazy draft we have, even moderate moisture will lead to creosote. I suspect you're going to find your cap screen plugged nearly full. Me, I never run a screen, but that's your decision. I strongly encourage you to work on your chimney height as I'm all too familiar with lazy draft and what effects it has on solid fuel heaters. When you can't get a roaring fire with kiln dried pine (2X4) and the door cracked, then there's a stoppage somewhere up the chimney.


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## Todd (Dec 13, 2011)

If the cap is clogged and your wood isn't as dry as you think, try burning your system without the cap. Draft should improve without a cap anyways from what I've found. Some people just use the cap in the summer months to keep the critters and rain out then take it off for the burning season.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 13, 2011)

Guys are you saying that my chimney cap has a screen in it, or are you calling my chimney cap a screen?
I hear the word screen I think of the stuff a screen door is made with. I do not have a screen mesh metal like stuff on my cap. I got the black stove pipe to do the test with. Now just need to get it up there.


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 14, 2011)

From the factory all chimney caps I've seen have 1/4" hardware cloth around them. I think the proper name is spark arrester. That's the cap screen we're talking about. On Simpson it was about 4-5 inches high, placed between the actual cap and the base that attaches to the last section of triple wall.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

Stephen in SoKY said:
			
		

> From the factory all chimney caps I've seen have 1/4" hardware cloth around them. I think the proper name is spark arrester. That's the cap screen we're talking about. On Simpson it was about 4-5 inches high, placed between the actual cap and the base that attaches to the last section of triple wall.



I do not remember anything like that in the cap, but when I can get it down I will get a before and after photos of it.


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## oldspark (Dec 14, 2011)

My cap does not have a screen, just a grill looking affair.


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## Waulie (Dec 14, 2011)

> 8.) Put new gaskets in made the draft worse.



Just echoing most of the comments here.  But again, it can only be two things.  Either you chimney has insufficient draft or your stove is not allowing enough air in. Since the stove is clean, that would mean you have a poorly designed stove.  I wouldn't worry much about your wood since you tried lumber and eco bricks.  

I didn't read all the comments, but this is important:  Does the wood burn with the door cracked?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

Stephen in SoKY said:
			
		

> When you can't get a roaring fire with kiln dried pine (2X4) and the door cracked.



I can get a roaring fire with the door cracked, but close the door and it go out.


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## Waulie (Dec 14, 2011)

> I can get a roaring fire with the door cracked, but close the door and it go out.



That's what I figured since it got worse when you replaced the gaskets.  Obviously your chimney draft isn't enough to pull enough air through your stove intake.  The questions remains which is the problem.  It probably isn't one or the other.  It is probably a combination of somewhat low chimney draft and a poorly designed air intake.  If the fire gets rolling easily with the door cracked and since this stove is a little suspect, I'm guessing a different stove might work fine for you.  Being down south, and having an 8" flue is not helping but I have a feeling this is the wrong stove for this set up.  Some stoves breath easier than others.


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 14, 2011)

It's down to 52 degrees in Clover now, have you tried waiting til night to start your fire?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

Waulie said:
			
		

> > I can get a roaring fire with the door cracked, but close the door and it go out.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I figured since it got worse when you replaced the gaskets.  Obviously your chimney draft isn't enough to pull enough air through your stove intake.  The questions remains which is the problem.  It probably isn't one or the other.  It is probably a combination of somewhat low chimney draft and a poorly designed air intake.  If the fire gets rolling easily with the door cracked and since this stove is a little suspect, I'm guessing a different stove might work fine for you.  Being down south, and having an 8" flue is not helping but I have a feeling this is the wrong stove for this set up.  Some stoves breath easier than others.



That is kinda sad the Stove manufacture is from NC you would think that they would have figured that out. the stove can run on an 8" or 6" flue. I was going to go with a 6" chimney system, but the chimney pro said to run 8" because my stove is 8". I have 14' chimney system.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

Stephen in SoKY said:
			
		

> It's down to 52 degrees in Clover now, have you tried waiting til night to start your fire?


No not tonight I thought I would wait after I add the pipe to the chimney. Sat it was 42Â°F and I fire the stove up with some 2x4s, had a roaring fire with the door cracked, shut the door the fire dies out. But I guess if I started a fire it would let us know that it is not the stove's draft, but maybe the chimney is not high enough.
 Then maybe the stove has a bad draft design.


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## maple1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Seems to me a roaring fire with the door open would mean a decent draft. Sounds to me like there is a problem with your air intake since it snuffs the fire when the door is closed - are your sure ALL the passages are absolutely clean & clear?

It is kind of hard to check it out over the internet though, can't poke around it thru the vid screen.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Seems to me a roaring fire with the door open would mean a decent draft. Sounds to me like there is a problem with your air intake since it snuffs the fire when the door is closed - are your sure ALL the passages are absolutely clean & clear?
> 
> It is kind of hard to check it out over the internet though, can't poke around it thru the vid screen.



The only air intake I have find and double check with Appalachian to make sure. Here is drawing of it.


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## maple1 (Dec 14, 2011)

If I'm seeing things right, that looks like an intake tract that would be very difficult to get properly clean if it got plugged up - if drawn anywhere close to scale. Unless it can be partly dissassembled. I see lots of places for stuff to get stuck in and create partial buildups. Can you fish some haywire or something thru all the passages to double check they are clear?

There is one sure way to determine if you have adequate draft - find a friend with a manometer. Adequate ones are not that expensive - if you couldn't find someone with one that would do you a favour & measure your draft out of the good of his heart (it should only take a few minutes to do), surely they wouldn't charge you much. Did the guy you had out use one? If he called all clear without actually measuring your draft, I'd look for someone else. It is a very easy thing to verify with the proper tool, and that tool is not that expensive. Without soundly verifying or ruling things out, we're kind of hoping to grasp the right straw here - as can be seen by the varying feedback.


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## nelraq (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi Stan,
Here's my 2 cents worth:

I had a 14' straight run of pipe on my first stove -worked very well.

Changed stoves (now have an Oslo).  I 'fought' with it for most of the first winter.  Just like yours, the Oslo would run great with the door cracked open, but would die down to almost nothing when I closed the door.  Very frustrating indeed! I know what you are going through!!

With the help of this forum, I was encouraged to lengthen the chimney by adding sections of single wall stove pipe.  Added 2' - no difference, added 2 more feet - a noticeable difference - but still not great. Added another 1 foot section and voila I now have very good draft and the stove works great.

Of course, I took the single wall pipe off and ended up adding 5.5 feet of Class A. 

My main point here is don't give up after adding only 2 feet.  It may take 4 or 5' to solve the problem

Good Luck!!


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> If I'm seeing things right, that looks like an intake tract that would be very difficult to get properly clean if it got plugged up - if drawn anywhere close to scale. Unless it can be partly dissassembled. I see lots of places for stuff to get stuck in and create partial buildups. Can you fish some haywire or something thru all the passages to double check they are clear?
> 
> There is one sure way to determine if you have adequate draft - find a friend with a manometer. Adequate ones are not that expensive - if you couldn't find someone with one that would do you a favour & measure your draft out of the good of his heart (it should only take a few minutes to do), surely they wouldn't charge you much. Did the guy you had out use one? If he called all clear without actually measuring your draft, I'd look for someone else. It is a very easy thing to verify with the proper tool, and that tool is not that expensive. Without soundly verifying or ruling things out, we're kind of hoping to grasp the right straw here - as can be seen by the varying feedback.



No the chimney pro did not use anything like that, He just looked up and down the chimney. I blew it at with a air compressor and this thing I put together.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

nelraq said:
			
		

> Hi Stan,
> Here's my 2 cents worth:
> 
> I had a 14' straight run of pipe on my first stove -worked very well.
> ...



How does it look. If I add 5.5' to my chimney it would look like a smoke stack. (really tall) But looks does not matter as long as it works.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

I did a search on Google for manometer. I have no clue how to use one so I guess that I would have to call a pro who has one. Does anyone know how much that would cost?


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 14, 2011)

It involves tapping into your flue pipe, installing heat proof tubing (Usually  brake line), setting the manometer to zero, hooking up the plastic tubing to the brake line and reading the manometer. Not worth it unless you're setting up to burn coal. How many of your attempts at starting a fire have been during the day?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

One I think since I installed the gaskets. But I have tried different time of the day. I have tried a 9:00 Sunday night it was in the 40s used 2x4 it took like 2 hours to burn it up. I have tried @ 6 in the morning was in the 30s. But the worst was this past Sat was around 55 Â°F @ 11 in the morning it took like 5 hours to burn up the kindling and two ECO bricks had to keep the door crack open and feed it kindling to get it to burn up.


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## maple1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Stephen in SoKY said:
			
		

> Not worth it unless you're setting up to burn coal.



Why is that?

Even after all the chasing in circles going on here, nothing has been confirmed or ruled out yet. If you can find someone with a manometer, all you would have to do is drill a little hole in your pipe, get him to do his thing with the manometer (which would only take all of 10 minutes), and you would know for sure if your draft was or was not the problem without spending money on pipe or climbing your roof.

Time to get methodical, I'd say.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

I think that all most everyone here believes I have a draft issue. But is it poorly designed stove issue or mere of a short chimney and warm climate issue, or Need a new stove and add to the chimney issue.

nelraq said he keep adding 2' until it had a good draft. Most people here has at last 20' chimney system.

I now know and understand what all the issue are. I need to make a check list and just need to do it and post back after I have gone though all the issue and have them fixed. Then need to gave everyone the update when it is working right. I guess to I just like here from all of you. Thanks you all for you time. Stan


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## mayhem (Dec 14, 2011)

If you're going to just be replacing the stove eventually anyway, how about just notching the gasket in a couple places and make the thing leak again so you can run it with the door latched shut?  Mayb cut out that same section that you said was not present before you replaced the gaskets.  I know the mfr told you they were right the way you did it, but you gotta do what you gotta do, right?  It worked better before you put the new gaskets in, so try to return it to that state.

I would guess you've got a half dozen minor issues working together against you instead of a silver bullet.  

1) You're in a warm climate (my stove has a 26 foot 6" chimney and when its 50 degrees out its damn hard to start a fire).  
2) Your chimney is on the short side.  But at least the cap is above the peak of your house.
3) Your chimney is 8" diameter.  I know you were advised to go to 8" from 6", I beleive this is very bad advice though.
4) The stove may just be a lousy design.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

mayhem said:
			
		

> If you're going to just be replacing the stove eventually anyway, how about just notching the gasket in a couple places and make the thing leak again so you can run it with the door latched shut?  Mayb cut out that same section that you said was not present before you replaced the gaskets.  I know the mfr told you they were right the way you did it, but you gotta do what you gotta do, right?  It worked better before you put the new gaskets in, so try to return it to that state.
> 
> I would guess you've got a half dozen minor issues working together against you instead of a silver bullet.
> 
> ...



Thank you for you advice. I might start buying up the 6" chimney system. The 6" chimney system is so easy to get around here. I was at Lowe's yesterday evening to get the black stove pipe and they had every thing you would need for it.

Just and up date. blowing the air intake out has help some. I have the door shot and and a lazy flame with kindling and it is 50Â°F outside. Maybe by add the chimney pipe it will get better.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

It has 10 mins now I have the damper closed and the firebox still has flames very small flames with just kindling stove pipe temp is 200*


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## oldspark (Dec 14, 2011)

So who can tell me if this is a rule of thumb in a warmer climate, a 6 inch is better than a 8 inch chimney, pretty sure he said the stove has a 8 inch opening, or are we guessing that the 6 inch will have more velocity that the 8 inch?


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## buckdog (Dec 14, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> It has 10 mins now I have the damper closed and the firebox still has flames very small flames with just kindling stove pipe temp is 200*



It sounds like your trying to conserve wood buy building small fires? If it was me, I would build a hot fire by pileing on the wood and burn it like I stole the wood. You need to make sure that fire box is pulling air, and the draft control is not plugged. Also why do you close your damper when your just burning kindling? That damper your referring to is that on your stove pipe above your stove? Any damper shold be wide open till your fire box is up to a sufficient operating temp. Get that fire ripping hot! What kind of spiecies of wood are you burning? Wood might be dry on outside, but wet in middle.
Just trying to help Bro


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 14, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Stephen in SoKY said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> So who can tell me if this is a rule of thumb in a warmer climate, a 6 inch is better than a 8 inch chimney, pretty sure he said the stove has a 8 inch opening, or are we guessing that the 6 inch will have more velocity that the 8 inch?



I have no idea but that is a good question.
Now the manual says 7. Chimney Installation #5 The pipe is to be minimum of 6" inside diameter.


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## Stephen in SoKY (Dec 14, 2011)

Stan, I encourage you to re-read Nelraq and Mayhem's posts above. I have a 28' class A six inch, 26' of it are completely enclosed in a heavy wall stone chase. My stove is a very easy breathing, pre-EPA, non cat stove with excellent air flow.  I am often able to start fires when it is 55 degrees and falling, based on the barometric pressure trending up at the time. My routine starting point is 50 degrees or below. You are burning some wadded up paper near the flue exit before lighting your fire I assume?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

buckdog said:
			
		

> AppalachianStan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was just want to see how it was draft after I used a air compressor to blow out the intake.
The damper is the bypass damper for the cat.


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## begreen (Dec 14, 2011)

AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> mayhem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good to hear that there is some progress. The next step is to build a bigger fire. Don't close the damper with a kindling fire. Instead, add a few larger splits (maybe 2-3" diam.) in a crisscross fashion, on top of the kindling. Leave the door slightly ajar, maybe 1/2" open and let those sticks get burning good. Leave the air control and the  damper open. Once these sticks are burning very hot and well, add 3-5, 4-6" splits on top, placed so that the are parallel to the sides of the stove. Leave the door ajar slightly until the new wood is starting to burn vigorously. Then close the door. Wait now, until the fire gets burning well, then use the air control to reduce intensity to moderate level. Wait a few minutes for the fire to settle. Now try closing the damper maybe halfway. If the fire is very vigorous, try reducing the air some more.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

Stephen in SoKY said:
			
		

> Stan, I encourage you to re-read Nelraq and Mayhem's posts above. I have a 28' class A six inch, 26' of it are completely enclosed in a heavy wall stone chase. My stove is a very easy breathing, pre-EPA, non cat stove with excellent air flow.  I am often able to start fires when it is 55 degrees and falling, based on the barometric pressure trending up at the time. My routine starting point is 50 degrees or below. You are burning some wadded up paper near the flue exit before lighting your fire I assume?



Yes I use wadded up paper near the flue.
I like they ideal and I understand about the location, warm climate I live in. The only bad thing I have and all most new 8" chimney that I got $500.00 in. To change it to a 6" system it will run another $500.00 But at less I can buy it over time unlike the 8" system I had to custom order it from Lowe's.My son work for Lowe's and he got the 8" system at cost.


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## buckdog (Dec 14, 2011)

Enough said about the chimney.. 8" is fine, and you might need to eventually add extra length. 

Right now slowly start pileing on the wood and if you have to leave the door slightly cracked open and build up a good head of steam before you even think of shutting down any air flow. You'll be cooking in no time.

Once that fire is roaring then slowly start reduceing the air flow.

Also only put large splits on once fire box has a good pile of HOT coals. Small splits for the first couple of hours. Don't be afraid to burn it hot.


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## oldspark (Dec 14, 2011)

Dont buy the six inch just yet, spend that money on a better stove that truly needs a 8 inch, can some one give me a good reason for him to go to 6 inch because the stove has a 8 inch opening. Lets not spend his money in a hap hazard fashion.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

I have a 24" black stove pipe that I was going to add to see if that will help the draft.
Do you guys think I should build a big fire first to see how it does?
or put the pipe on and then build a fire to see how it does?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Dont buy the six inch just yet, spend that money on a better stove that truly needs a 8 inch, can some one give me a good reason for him to go to 6 inch because the stove has a 8 inch opening. Lets not spend his money in a hap hazard fashion.


I like the way you think.


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## begreen (Dec 14, 2011)

Agreed. The chimney is drafting, albeit weakly due to the mild temps. Getting a hotter fire going should help once the system warms up. 

If you want to a test to see if more pipe will help, get a 3-4" length of 8" galvanized air duct pipe, remove the cap, and jam it in the top of the flue, crimp down. Do this on a non-windy day. If that makes a big difference, you have your answer. Note that if you add extra pipe permanently, you will need to brace it solidly.


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Agreed. The chimney is drafting, albeit weakly due to the mild temps. Getting a hotter fire going should help once the system warms up.
> 
> If you want to a test to see if more pipe will help, get a 3-4" length of 8" galvanized air duct pipe, remove the cap, and jam it in the top of the flue, crimp down. Do this on a non-windy day. If that makes a big difference, you have your answer. Note that if you add extra pipe permanently, you will need to brace it solidly.



I understand that. but I will be trying a 24" length of 8" stove pipe.


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## buckdog (Dec 14, 2011)

buckdog said:
			
		

> Enough said about the chimney.. 8" is fine, and you might need to eventually add extra length.
> 
> Right now slowly start pileing on the wood and if you have to leave the door slightly cracked open and build up a good head of steam before you even think of shutting down any air flow. You'll be cooking in no time.
> 
> ...





			
				AppalachianStan said:
			
		

> I have a 24" black stove pipe that I was going to add to see if that will help the draft.
> Do you guys think I should build a big fire first to see how it does?
> or put the pipe on and then build a fire to see how it does?



That's what I just suggested. Get R Done. Get that fire going, good and hot.


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## buckdog (Dec 14, 2011)

Stan- you get that stove figured out yet?
You don't have the fire dept. holding you back from going in your house till it stops smokeing, do ya?

BTW- that stove install looks a bit intimadating to me, although I sort of think it's kinda neat the way it's balanceing on the rock. You got much distance between the wall and the stove?


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## AppalachianStan (Dec 14, 2011)

buckdog said:
			
		

> Stan- you get that stove figured out yet?
> You don't have the fire dept. holding you back from going in your house till it stops smokeing, do ya?
> 
> BTW- that stove install looks a bit intimadating to me, although I sort of think it's kinda neat the way it's balanceing on the rock. You got much distance between the wall and the stove?



No it is too hot outside to build a fire in that beast. As for the balanceing it is on there and is not going any where. There is only 4" hung over on the sides and 2" over hung on  front and back of the stove to the blocks that it sets on. I put it up that high to save my back.That was then and now I have to use a chair or my wheelchair to set in. The wall distance to the stove is just as the back of the stove ask for. But if it will make everyone happy I will look in to have a pedestal made for it?


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