# are pellet stoves legal in garages?    (i am in mass)



## iceman (Mar 1, 2010)

can i install a pellet stove/furnace in my garage?


----------



## MCPO (Mar 1, 2010)

iceman said:
			
		

> can i install a pellet stove/furnace in my garage?



If the garage is attached to the house I`d have to say there is no gray area there whatsover.

However a rear garage /workshop could be different . At least a case could be made if you could show it used as a workshop vs a garage and it was not used to park cars in but your insurance company could advise you best. Local code authorities also.
 The definition of a garage is a building that is used to house a motor vehicle.
 Debate always welcomed and encouraged cause I`m not always right.


----------



## Xena (Mar 1, 2010)

Why not call your town building inspector and ask the question


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 1, 2010)

iceman said:
			
		

> can i install a pellet stove/furnace in my garage?



check with the town, Ice.......out building insprector in Massachusetts WILL NOT allow them in the garage, attatched or otherwise.


----------



## iceman (Mar 2, 2010)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats why i didnt wanna call. around here i will call and ask and they will "happen" to be in the area to see if i am doing something


----------



## MCPO (Mar 2, 2010)

iceman said:
			
		

> Lousyweather said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Few, if any , code enforcement officials (at least in Ma.) are going to approve a pellet stove in a garage.  
  Mine is installed in my rear unattached garage/workshop and it has not been inspected or approved. However it works just fine and keeps me nice and warm when I need to run it and it`s miles safer than the old Franklin type wood stove that it recently replaced out there. 
 It`s not like I`m living dangerously or on the edge either . I`m very careful with flammables and I keep the place very clean.  I use common sense.  
 And more importantly ,  I`m sick and tired of having some pompous arrogant overpaid government inspector , city official, and / or political hack trying to interfere with every facet of my life . I wanted a pellet stove in my garage and I got it!
 Case closed!


----------



## woodsman23 (Mar 2, 2010)

Gio said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





No but what do you really think???,....


----------



## andyc (Mar 2, 2010)

FWIW, I've heard that if it's at least 18" above the floor level all is good
But best checking local your regulations is your best bet.
Andy


----------



## Stevekng (Mar 2, 2010)

Gio said:
			
		

> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a guy a couple of towns over from here that feels the same way you do. The day before last Christmas, his garage, cars, and half his house burned. He remembers that he had just filled his pellet stove and was across the street getting another bag of pellets, when the fire broke out. 
 He just moved back into the house last week and the trucks just finished hauling off what was left of the garage and the stuff (car included) inside.

I agree, people should have the freedom to do as they please.... as long as their house is a half a mile from mine.


----------



## MCPO (Mar 2, 2010)

Stevekng said:
			
		

> Gio said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, one should definitely have some consideration for his neighbors safety too but I was talking a pellet stove in a separate garage out in my back 40.
  The fact is any kind of space heater has to be considered inherently risky no matter where it`s placed but so is driving your car down the road or running with scissors. Life has to be lived and enjoyed in spite of the many potential danger which we live with 24/7.  
 Not that I`m recommending it but personally I`d feel much safer with a pellet stove in my garage than with a wood stove in the house.


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 2, 2010)

noone questions your common sense, Gio, but certainly you must allow that EVERYONE thinks they have alot of common sense, but, in reality, I think we can all allow that  there are many folks out there who lack even a modicum of common sense as far as pellet and wood burning are concerned. I as well dont in theory like some beuracrat telling me what to do, but thats why its there.....to protect the idiot who has no common sense....oddly, many of these folks ARE the beuracrats! Oddly though, some of the worst abusers are folks who should know better....firemen, etc. (not a knock on firemen either!)


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Mar 2, 2010)

NFPA211 para. 12.2.4 "Solid Fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in any garage"

this is the referrence cited in most cases prohibiting this installation, that said its probably the most ignored section in this particular code. 
the paragraph above it says they shall not be installed in any location where flammable vapors (gasoline etc. ) are present.

as far as legality i would say no just based on the code, shops and such not built as a garage IMHO do not fall specifically under this code but if the structure was built as a garage its not legal to install any solid fuelled heater such as a wood or pellet stove.


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 2, 2010)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> NFPA211 para. 12.2.4 "Solid Fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in any garage"
> 
> this is the referrence cited in most cases prohibiting this installation, that said its probably the most ignored section in this particular code.
> the paragraph above it says they shall not be installed in any location where flammable vapors (gasoline etc. ) are present.
> ...



Mike-

Already cited this section in another post, only to get blasted;

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/52460/

one of the replies basically says NFPA be damned, since my insurance co and inspector says its ok, its perfectly fine......

er...ok....whatever......


----------



## stoveguy2esw (Mar 2, 2010)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> stoveguy2esw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeah i saw the thread, the question of the OP was is it legal in mass.( not "will it work") knowing what i know from dealing with this for a living i always fall back to code and standards, the most commonly recognized standard for this is the 211, so i pulled and quoted from it , now just as with you neither of us "wrote" the code , so attacking a person for quoting from it is uncalled for. you and i both in the respective threads were simply answering a question  asked, (correctly IMHO) 

to the OP it should be noted that Mass does not allow any unpermitted installations, they do require permit and inspection by local authorities and they will cite the national state and local codes which apply to the installation of such an appliance. its been my experience in discussing code with inspectors up there they generally arent very flexible when it comes to code as they have to sign off on it and it then becomes their responsibility in the case anything untoward happens. i honestly think you will not be able to do this installation and be successful in getting it permitted. as i was saying above , "i" am not making any value judgement here, im just giving you he best answer i can based on what i have learned on the subject. i hope this is helpful to you


----------



## krooser (Mar 2, 2010)

I'd like to install a pellet stove in my shop for next season. I occasionally have a running vehicle on my lift in the unheated portion of the shop but never one with gasoline in the tank in the heated section. While the NG runs about $100.00 per month I'd like to get that even lower... just keeping it warm enough to keep my paints, etc. from freezing...


----------



## Snowy Rivers (Mar 2, 2010)

If there the gagrage is not attached and the doors will not allow the entance of a car and you are not using it as a wood working shop, you might be fine.

The worry is flamable liquids that can leak form a car (Gasoline) and be set ablaze by the stove.

There are a lot of workshops that have wood stoves of various configurations BUTTTTTT  the Insurance company may have issues depending.


Remote shops will be up to the insurance company as to whether they will allow it.

Now here is a thought. I have had two homes over the years that had both the gas furnace and a gas water heater in the garage.

Hmmm these have an even more open flame than a Pellet stove.


Check you local area building codes and see if gas appliances like water heaters, furnaces and driers are permited in the garage.

If the answer is yes, then you can certainly back the Insurance company and the inspectors into a corner and kick them hard.

Any appliance in the garage that has an open flame is a potential ignition source for leaking gasoline from a car or ????


Good luck

Snowy


----------



## MCPO (Mar 2, 2010)

I won`t argue that the purpose of these ordnances are to protect life and property and honestly they do make sense.
Whoever circumvents these ordnances will simply have to assume the responsibility.  I`ll just have to live with it. 
 Actually it`s not hard at all.


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 2, 2010)

Gio said:
			
		

> thats why i didnt wanna call. around here i will call and ask and they will "happen" to be in the area to see if i am doing something



I`m sick and tired of having some pompous arrogant overpaid government inspector , city official, and / or political hack trying to interfere with every facet of my life . I wanted a pellet stove in my garage and I got it!
 Case closed![/quote]

In Mass.????, I didn't think any of those were in Mass!!  I thought they ALL were in MASS!!  Well, maybe a FEW in Calif........... )


----------



## Snowy Rivers (Mar 2, 2010)

I too hate the arrogant self important jerks that usually ocupy the offices of inspectors.

Now this all said, the reason for inspections is multi faceted. To protect the idiot that does not have a clue and to protect buyers down the road if and when a house is sold.

Far too many people dont have the slightest clue about much of anything when it comes to electrical, plumbing, mechanical and appliances that burn stuff.

Unfortunately there has to be some regulations to keep people from hurting themselves or burning the neighborhood down.

I do believe that if you can have a natural gas appliance in the garage you certainly should be quite well allowed to run a pellet stove there too as long as it is vented properly and otherwise installed with the correct clearances and proper pipe.

Fire is fire, makes zero difference if there is natural gas burning or pellets burning.
The result is the same. You get a gas leak, and the fumes get loose, POOOOOOF the place goes up.

Ask first if you can have a gas water heater or a gas furnace. If thats OK then press for the pellet stove.


Snowy


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 2, 2010)

only thing is, solid fuel, such as pellets is often viewed as a diffferent product than gaseous or liquid....in fact, in wonderful Massachusetts, they arent even inspected by the same inspectors! Liquid and gaseos fuel is inspected by the fire department, whereas solid fuel is inspected by the building inspector.........


----------



## Snowy Rivers (Mar 2, 2010)

Hmmmmm
The Beauacracy is alive and well I see.

Here any heating cooling device is inspected by the Local inspector. (City, county or both depending on the location)

The previous two places I have owned had natural gas furnaces as well as gas hot water and they both were in the garage.

Both devices were not fully sealed either.

You could see the fire in the furnace up inside a little grillwork.
Waterheater was similar.

Due to the fact that these appliances were in the garage, we left the cars outside.

Never used the furnace as we installed a PELLET stove when we moved in.

Sadly the beauacracy for the most part has not a clue about what is safe or how anything works.

Book readers all the way. Usually common sense is not allowed or even used.

A fellow came by today and bought my old hearth pad for his stove.
He said the local inspector rejected the new Simpson pellet vent Pro as being "The wrong stuff"

Hmmmm wonder what was in his sandwich for lunch

Then there are the inspectors that will pass almost anything if there is a little envelope left on the jobsite with his name on it.

Saw that little trick a couple times and it backfired and the owner made a phone call to the right folks,

Fellow is not an inspector any more either.

That sort of stuff just sucks.


Snowy


----------



## 86 toy (Mar 3, 2010)

can't burn a pellet stove in a garage that brings in fresh outside air for combustion and vents back outside. but it's ok to throw a ready heater on the floor that blows a flame out the front and heat your garage? doesn't make much sense to me


----------



## Snowy Rivers (Mar 3, 2010)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND the ready heater also tosses out a metric buttload of CO. also

Hmmm. now what is wrong with this scenario.

I can see not allowing a barrel stove or some other half baked outfit.

Just the beauacracy taking good care of us eh ??

Snowy


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 3, 2010)

86 toy said:
			
		

> can't burn a pellet stove in a garage that brings in fresh outside air for combustion and vents back outside. but it's ok to throw a ready heater on the floor that blows a flame out the front and heat your garage? doesn't make much sense to me



no, thats not allowed here either! Everything is illegal in Massachusetts.....(now where did I hear THAT one?)


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Mar 3, 2010)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> 86 toy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lousyweather, 

I was told that even Massachusetts is illegal in Massachusetts is there any truth to that ?


----------



## Lousyweather (Mar 3, 2010)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> Lousyweather said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it is, smokes, I think it is.....its getting better now though...no more Kennedy's in office for the moment (ulp! an anti-democrat post on Hrath.com?! destined for an immediate shuttle to the sh*tcan!)


----------

