# respond to this letter from Kerry about renewables?



## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

On 3/15/07 11:19 AM, "John Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry" wrote:

Dear elkimmeg,  ( ps I edited  it to reflect my forum name)

During the campaign and since then, we have talked to Americans from coast to coast about the environment and the critical challenge we all face in protecting the earth for future generations. 

Here's where you come in: We'd love to hear from you. Please take a moment and send us your stories about people you know -- even yourself -- who have found ways to make the world a greener place. They don't have to be famous and they don't even have to consider themselves environmentalists. They just need to be people with the imagination and courage to envision the world as a better place. We can't wait to read about their stories and we look forward to hearing from you.


 I have been communicating with his staff for quite some time. Again  trying to get recognition of the efforts members are doing here every day Efforts like Corie and Rob .
 This is one powerful ally to have supporting our efforts

 Note this is his personal e-mail address

  What message  should we send him what better way to  enhance  our way of life and the alternative heating choices we have made  I think everyone here is not only trying to burn renewable fuels but at the same time making improvements to their homes to conserve what  heqat we produce I think we all are making  an effort to leave a small a foor print on our enviorment as possibe. Its not just wood stoves being discussed here but wise energy saving ideas Proper wood management   personal safety


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## stoveguy2esw (Mar 16, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> On 3/15/07 11:19 AM, "John Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry" <info@johnkerry.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear elkimmeg,
> 
> ...



personally, the guy doesnt thrill me (being ex military) but i'd see what he is looking for , his recognition of the donor programs is worth bringing up to him IMHO i think its tremendous what has been accomplished with that. make sure that he "gets it" about the industry's efforts for cleaner burning safer units (.7ppm VC technology, guess we have to roll up our sleeves to get below that at ESW) i agree that he would be a great asset in our corner, i'd be willing to put my personal onus aside for that.


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## DavidV (Mar 16, 2007)

Do you REALLY want to know how I would resond?   REALLY??


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## spark949 (Mar 16, 2007)

Hmmm....I'll tell you my thoughts. He doesn't have much credibility with people I associate with. I know myself, I discount anything he says or does. Weigh all your options if you want  to hitch your wagon to his horses. It could hurt you in the long run.


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## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

Look I am strictly an independent voter at time we are faced with voting I for the less of evils ( in my oppinion) however guess who controls both the house and senate. 
 as it stands  Kerry has tremendeous influence. I was a political science History major in college If the game needs to be played then try to influence how it is played
 If anyone has a pipe line with more influence please step forward. Its the message  that counts not the person delivering it to get there I plan to have a face to face discussion with him  that' what I hope this leads to. I want to look him in the eye and deliver  how for years we have done the job carbon neutral I want to inform about .7 Gph  bio bricks bio logs  all the talk on capital hill and they have no idea  the efforts the industry has made for cleaner responsible burning no idea about bio pellets ./logs I want to place them in his hands let him read the lable. 
 Hell he can have the log to bring it to the Senate  You want to know my comitment well here it is. I will not leave a stone unturned to present what we members fellow wood burners have done to ween ourselves of imported fosil fuel and be enviormentally friendly.  I may not susceed But damn I'm trying ,but I need help


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## Harley (Mar 16, 2007)

First, Elk - I'd have to say that would be great - all politics aside, and not going to come up with a whole laundry list of things that make me somewat cynical as to why that really wasn't sincere (sorry - just had to get that out)

I would focus on the "donor" programs - both yours and Cories.... and actually make a distinction between the 2... If I kindof understand the differences, your program focuses more to getting rid of the less efficient stoves and replacing with "eco-friendly"  (I hate that term) stoves.  His is a little different focus, as far as getting a safe instal. into more "needy" peoples homes even its with some older stoves.  I think there is a big difference there as far as the goals, and I do fully support both programs, so I hope neither of you take that as some sort of "dig".

I would think some of your background and how you built your house would help as well.  I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best "word-smith" to write a response.  Was there anything more in the text of the message to indicate what they were looking for?  It really seemed (based on what you posted here) it was pretty short and left very open, so its hard for me, at least to try to come up with a focused response.... but I'll keep thinking about it - above was just off the top of my head.


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## spark949 (Mar 16, 2007)

Hey, I know all too well how politics work. I have used them for myself and for some of the things I believe in. But I also have been known to be a little self destructive when I'm trying to get a point across. I, myself could never use someone that I don't respect to further my cause. But that's me, maybe for the good of your (our) cause you have to do what you have to do.  You ask for some opinions, you got mine, now it's time for others to give theirs. Careful what you wish for.


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## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

Harley and forum members I indend to play him as much as he plays us. meaning he has contacts I never have accces to. It reminds me of a movie sleeping with the enemy. This is a dangereous gamble that's why I am passing it along for guidence and advice


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## wg_bent (Mar 16, 2007)

Dear John,

There once was a man from Lake Furning
Who had a particular yearning
and he said with some glee as he hacked at the tree
if I'd cut it last year I'd be burning


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## jason1238 (Mar 16, 2007)

Elk,

I commend you on your persistence.  Obviously it's paying off!  I agree with the other posters thoughts on Mr. Kerry, but you are absolutely right about playing the game.  You have to get into the game first...and this is a great opportunity for us as a group.  I'm not sure how I could help, other than encouragement (and maybe spell check ;-) ), but I think you already have all the facts and info to present to him.  I just hope he hasn't sent the same letter to our anti-burning friends, because I'm sure they would play the game too!

Keep us posted on this, Elk...we're all in this one together!


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## restorer (Mar 16, 2007)

Elk, 
Simple solution is to ask him to put himself on the line. I don't think he will personally do it, but maybe a staffer will. Invite him to join the forum and ask for our opinions. Have him start his own topics and make sure he understands it may take a little Nomex and welders gloves at first, but he can get a feel for the commitment of the free thinkers here. Quoting chapter and verse and loading him with statistics won't get us or him anywhere, but give us a chance to give compelling arguments will advance whatever cause we have collectively. He's a big boy, let him make the choice.


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## jjbaer (Mar 16, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Harley and forum members I indend to play him as much as he plays us. meaning he has contacts I never have accces to. It reminds me of a movie sleeping with the enemy. This is a dangereous gamble that's why I am passing it along for guidence and advice



Elk....don't miss your chance to plug wood stoves.....think about it...these guys are 1-step behind Al Gore in preaching "reducing carbon footprints"....so.....tell them that one of the benefits of wood burning is there's a zero net carbon footprint.......


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## restorer (Mar 16, 2007)

Warren said:
			
		

> Dear John,
> 
> There once was a man from Lake Furning
> Who had a particular yearning
> ...



Mind if I borrow your limerick? I have a very perfect application. Won't Disclose.....yet. Stay tuned, anyway.


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## Hogwildz (Mar 16, 2007)

Elk is asking for positive input for use with a connection that no one is is able to come close to. Why do you aholes have to make it a negative thing. This sh-t pisses me off.
The man is going above & beyond, where non of the rest of us could even come close to. Jesus then some of you morons have to make an ash can post out of this.
Elk, I don't care who it is, if you have a high up connection, and it will help our plight & help many others. I am in and will help in any way possible.
Theres too much bitching & whining, and not enough action in a positive manor. If you have no positive input on what could be a great thing, then keep your bs to yourselves and take it to the ash can.
Elk I also agree the donor program is good for starters. Although OWB's are not really our thing, I also suggest some talks about bringing them up to EPA standards as stoves should be. Only makes sense if wood stove burners & manufacturers are doing their part, both voluntarily or involuntarily, OWB's should have to follow the same path & rules.
Maybe even a firewood program, where trees are cut for firewood for needy and local folks, and replaced with saplings to renew the growth.
Theres a whole laundry list of good ideas I am sure. Lets pitch in guys. A small few have been doing alot, time for some others to pitch in.
Enough talk, how bout some action & help the man with a really good opportunity.
Might even be a good way to make sure the issues folks don't get even close to making our cleaner woodburning efforts flush down the toilet.
Theres many avenues to pursue here. Those of you men & women who are open enough to put your personal differences aside. I applaud & thank you.
Those that can't, do us a favor and post anywhere you want, keep your grief from this particular thread please. There is no need to sabatoge a good opportunity that does not get presented very often if at all in ones life.
I'll try and get some free time and think of some things, not sure what I will come up with, or if it will even be worth a crap. But I will try Elk.
Excellent work Elk. I would suggest leaving any personal contact info for your connections out of your posts for now on. We don't need a moron to do something dumb and ruin something positive for us. I hope this turns into a great thing, for us and many others.


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## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

the e-mail was put there to validate the connection and efforts going on It will m be edited out


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## babalu87 (Mar 16, 2007)

1-800-jon4wood (oooh Golf reference, getting closer Elk, JobLot has a BEEG sale on Golf shoes this week)

I want a tax break on my stove retroactive to when it was installed. 
Tax credits for windows, doors, insulation, hi-efficiency boilers and furnaces but not for the stove and chimney!

There should also be some sort of low to zero interest loan program for those willing to go with solar or wind power for electricity. Maybe the program can be something simple. For instance, the loan is zero or VERY low interest for your purchase and installation of a windmill to provide electricity to your home. They can make sure of your dedication by monitoring your electric bill and the interest rate could go up along with penalties if you decide to go back on grid. I would install a windmill tomorrow if the initial cash out of pocket wasnt so high.


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## Jags (Mar 16, 2007)

Elk, you may want to start with just a list of important topics that you (us) would like to be put forward.  Shine them up with fancy words later.

1. Establish upgrade programs with mfgs to replace pre-epa dragons.
2. Bring OWB to same EPA Standards as our stoves.
3. New tech advancements (that was done by choice, not regulations)
4. Renewable Energy
5. Reduced Fossil fuel usage
6. Zero net carbs.
7. The fact that many cast stoves are themselves made from recycled materials
8. Donor programs for those in need.

Just brain storming.


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## Harley (Mar 16, 2007)

Like the list, Jags (had to re-read # 6 a few times.... thought we were writing a diet book)

adding Baba's:

9. Expanding the energy efficient property credit to include wood stoves.


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## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

10  encourage R&D into biofuel logs and pellets perhaps tax incentives

11 Coupled with#10 ramp up pellet production,   to the point where supply = demand  Their  cost must  be reduced  so that pellets are viviable alternative to fosil fuel.
 Some of the oil comapies incentives should be applied to this fuel scource,

12 Education how to effeciently opperate a stove   in the cleanest safest way


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## elkimmeg (Mar 16, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> 10  encourage R&D into biofuel logs and pellets perhaps tax incentives
> 
> 11 Coupled with#10 ramp up pellet production,   to the point where supply = demand  Their  cost must  be reduced  so that pellets are viviable alternative to fosil fuel.
> Some of the oil comapies incentives should be applied to this fuel scource,
> ...



 you know one way manufactures will work to developing cleaner stoves? tax incentive based on GPH


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## Jags (Mar 16, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> elkimmeg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, exactly. Get the points down first, then stir well, and simmer for awhile. (back to the diet cooking ) The important ones will float to the top. Skim them off the top and then put the points together in an order that they make sense and flow together. One point strengthening the next. In the end you will have made a case that Johnny Cochran couldn't beat up.

Common folks, if you had the ear of someone that has the influence (political position aside) that this guy has, not to mention the fact that the Heintz family has lots-o-pull with the movers and groovers that reside where our money gets dished out from, what are the hot topics (keep it on topic with regards to our love of the hearth) that you would lay at thier feet?  Add to the list.


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## webbie (Mar 16, 2007)

A couple points:

1. Wind farms off of Cape Cod....Kerry is fighting these tooth and nail, but the "people" want them.
2. Fund the tax credit for biomass stoves - congress approved the credit but did not fund it.
3. Stop creating artificial markets that screw up the real ones - example, big subsidy for ethanol is making a false boom in the midwest and increasing the price of feed corn, food corn and fuel corn.
4. Woodstoves, pellet stoves and even efficient gas units are NEVER mentioned by the government as part of the renewable energy "scene", yet these units are doing a big part. Lat's talk about them instead of just pie-in-the-sky stuff.
5. Personally, I am against most private windmills due to site problems, etc. - so much more is gained from wind farms. So I would not give too large of a credit for small residential units.


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## jjbaer (Mar 16, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> elkimmeg said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Elk,

I like the list Jags gave but minus the "net carbs" one....LOL, but seriously, with several moves afoot to ban woodburning, I think that you must come across very powerfully with the image that the stove industry is VERY environmentally aware and is self-policing....that is, the latest EPA stove regulations (what is it...7 gph???) is, without EPA intervention, being dwarfed by some of the newer stoves that are down to less than 1 gph...and they're doing that on their own and NOT because of EPA regulations.  In general, I like the list he gave you....the biggest "black eye" the industry is getting though, comes from the rapid increase in the number of OWB's...people see more and more of these smoke/particulate belchers and it taints the better part of the industry that is making clean, EPA approved wood burning stoves for indoor use.....unless the OWB's get controlled by the EPA, the eco-weenies will come after ALL wood burners......


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## webbie (Mar 16, 2007)

EPA is starting to push stove changeouts, etc. - this should be tied in with other programs so it becomes more than a "reduce smoke" movement, and gets PR as renewable energy.....

And, of course, conservation - the most efficient BTU is the one never used.


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## lepp (Mar 16, 2007)

Elk: Have you been in contact with HPBA? They may be able to give you some advice or information.

HPBA is heavily involved in the EPA woodstove changeout programs like the one in Libby MT where several manufacturers donated product to the cause. http://woodstovechangeout.org/ The Libby changeout is still in process but the expectation is that the results will show that air quality improves significantly when old woodburners are replaced by EPA certified stoves.

HPBA also has a government affairs program - they have a lot of information & resources on the website http://www.hpba.org/index.php?id=6.


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## babalu87 (Mar 16, 2007)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> A couple points:
> 
> 5. Personally, I am against most private windmills due to site problems, etc. - so much more is gained from wind farms. So I would not give too large of a credit for small residential units.



I agree depending on where one lives but my house is literally in the middle of 6 acres of woods, during Winter one of my neighbors MAY see the windmill.
My two neighbors both own 6 and 10 acres respectively and we have cranberry bogs abutting the backs of our lots eliminating any site issues.


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## Hogwildz (Mar 16, 2007)

babalu87 said:
			
		

> 1-800-jon4wood (oooh Golf reference, getting closer Elk, JobLot has a BEEG sale on Golf shoes this week)
> 
> I want a tax break on my stove retroactive to when it was installed.
> Tax credits for windows, doors, insulation, hi-efficiency boilers and furnaces but not for the stove and chimney!
> ...



I like that idea, good one Babalu. How bout a zero interest loan, and the possible ability that if there is a surplus of power from your wind or solar generated electric, it gets sold back to the electric co., and a percentage put towards paying the loan? Not sure if it would work.


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## Hogwildz (Mar 16, 2007)

Harley said:
			
		

> Like the list, Jags (had to re-read # 6 a few times.... thought we were writing a diet book)
> 
> adding Baba's:
> 
> 9. Expanding the energy efficient property credit to include wood stoves.



Great thinking Harley!! I agree! A tax credit should be given to any homeowner that limits or reduces their fossil fuel usage. Especially OIL.
How much more American can you get then Flipping the ol middle finger to OPEC? Anyone who limits and cuts down on foreign oil dependency should be rewarded!


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## jpl1nh (Mar 17, 2007)

Elk, there are some great stories in the members stories section that, for me, capture the essence of what burning wood is about.  The self reliance, the consideration of the environment and world we live in, the positive influences on local economy, and the fulfilling feeling the whole process provides for us and (hopefully) our families as well.  Many of these stories are well written and seem to be what I hear he's looking for, you know, nice sound bites!


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## Harley (Mar 17, 2007)

Not to slow eveyone down here (myself included), because there's some great ideas floating around, but after re-reading the text of the original post that Elk put up... I'm not sure at this point, that it should turn into a response that seems more like a lobbying effort.  It would be great to have an "ear" to listen to our side of the story, but it looks like they are looking for more of... "what have you, me, us did to make the world a greener place "  I think that was the original "question"  

Just throwing that out for consideration, and I think collectively, we've got a lot of ammo there.  I do think this could be a good opportunity and Hogz put it very well about setting the politics aside, and trying to get some good coherent message sent. 

But being the realist I am... If WE don't do this, and get some sort of response fairly soon... my guess is that the "other side" will, and he'll run with that.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 17, 2007)

Fact of life. Wood burners are a small enough piece of the constituency to not mean squat to a politician. Tell him you have sqiggly florescent bulbs in your house.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 17, 2007)

downeast said:
			
		

> True history: no one in our Vets Against the War c. 1970 on ,had any respect...



Did two tours dickhead. Don't wanna hear it. Kerry shot more communists than you have ever seen.

Hurry, your swiftboat is leaving the dock.


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## Hogwildz (Mar 17, 2007)

What an ahole. Keep your politic bs out of a good thread. Take your crap to the ashcan, theres plenty of folks there to debate all you want.
At least Kerry served, unlike your butt buddy Bush couldn't even show up for his reserve duty, and Cheney who skated totally around it.


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## GVA (Mar 17, 2007)

I had a pretty good post going but some how lost it (somehow went back a page and when I came back my post was gone........ Can we do something to this where if you go back to check a fact the open reply doesn't disappear??????????)
Any way Yes the stove manufactures and bio fuel companies should get the tax incentives that Big oil gets and help them to make cleaner stoves, or in the fuel catagory a steady supply.
The people whom buy a new stove should get a tax break of some sort to help offset the cost of the stove. If the average joe had a choice to keep burning that old oil burner or get a pellet stove(for example) He would choose the Oil cause he doesn't have any incentive to spend 2-3 grand on a new stove other than being Green.....  He aslo only has to turn a dial on the wall to get heat..
So for me who has burned pellets for 4 years as my sole source of heat, no more fossil fuels.  According to several members here I should stop using pellets cause its cheaper according to the calculators to burn oil or NG............That is a mixed message.  So maybe I should take the attitude of most other people and say screw it as long as I'm saving money who care's about the environment...  This I'm afraid is the bigest hurdle to overcome...
Anyway My other post is gone and I'm about 2 more beers into it since I started the other post.....  So I'm not gonna go into all the other stuff tonight.......
Maybe tomorrow ;-)


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## DavidV (Mar 17, 2007)

I don't like him or his stupid mouth words.


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## webbie (Mar 17, 2007)

downeast said:
			
		

> Mr E : The "letter" is a PR mass mailing from a data base of the closest 100,000+ demographics...you made it. %-P The naive sign is lit large on the forehead. For local consumption: the Texas White House is 4000 ft², recycled construction materials, low water re-use. AlGore's Tennessee home ? Look it up.
> So E. if you want to lead, do it right. And, BTW: get some real chaps, head protection, and real work boots. Yes, shut the furnace OFF.  :-/



Hey, Down.....

Are you discounting the tens of thousands of pounds of fuel that Air Force One uses to visit the green Texas House? Is that your idea of leadership? I'm just wondering why you cite such an example when it is quite obvious from every piece of legislation that the current admin has passed that they are not into saving energy....sure, when things went bad they tried to throw out some energy PR - like 50 cents a gallon to Archer Daniels Midland for making inefficient corn fuel.

BTW, I do agree that these are usually form letter - I'm certain I got one, but I delete all the Kerry (and any other pol) emails before I read them. When Kerry goes for the Cape Wind Project, then I'll start listening to him. I don't care how rich he is, how many people he killed, nor how big his car is - but when he strives to save his view and hurts the people of the commonwealth because of it, I'm not happy. I sent him email long ago complaining about that, and that is probably why I am on the "green" Kerry list.


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## wg_bent (Mar 17, 2007)

UncleRich said:
			
		

> Warren said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Posts to internet forums are public domain.  I just ask for credit.


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## wg_bent (Mar 17, 2007)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> A couple points:
> 
> 1. Wind farms off of Cape Cod....Kerry is fighting these tooth and nail, but the "people" want them.
> 2. Fund the tax credit for biomass stoves - congress approved the credit but did not fund it.
> ...



WOW good one Web.  I second the Cape wind thing.  I disagree with you on private wind mills, but let me explain.  Many of the apple orchards around here have them stuck in the middle of the orchard, used for pumping water.  They are modern wind generators, and I think that's a great application.  However, a noisy wind generator in a subdivision would be bad.  Min- land for private would need to be part of the legislation.

I'd like to see improvements in building codes that increase current r19/R38 for walls/ceiling (at least in NE it is), to r29/r60.  This would amount to adding r10 foam board on the outside of a structure.  Also mandates on min temps in large stores like malls in summer that would not cause the employees to need sweaters.    I think this country has gone lighting mad.  Another is better energy management in data centers.  Did you know that CMOS based computers now consume power nearly as much as old bipolar machines from the 80's?   Did you know that one of the biggest problems in developing denser racks is heat dissipation?  

The government regulates the emissions from cars, why not the power consumption for electric appliances and computers?

Why are incondessent (sp?) light bulbs for house hold lighting even sold any more?
Yeah Yeah I know.. dimmers   

So, anyone keeping score for Elk here?


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## elkimmeg (Mar 17, 2007)

Yes it is a stamp mailing but what you missed is I have been corresponding with his staff for quite some time.
 The second point was to get forum imput not just for this mass mailing but a good a combined front. If you read the first post I repeat I have been corresponding with his staff  

Also note he is a Ma senator which we vote for. I have actually met him in person a few years back at  local town meting at that time I was not in tune or trying to influence or make aware of my wood burning ,this is about 5 years back. If you have something constructive or want to penn something  go a head, this is the purpose of the post 

If you have something personal to  gripe PM me or take it to the ash can I'm trying to help out  what the hell are your motives? 
I'm putting a lot of effort into presenting the best possible image. I'm sock and tired of your personal attacks and petty BS. Got a problem I asked you before air it out instead of nick picking back stabing,  I will not place my self and call what I'm thinking and stop here or That would Be lowering myself to your level. what is it with you you have constantly tried to bait me Got a problem with Vc I postyed the phone numbers to take it up with them  so  what did they tell you. I'm not employed at CFM

 Please other member don't engage with him  leave it, it is not productive. Can we move on to the point indended  You know Downeast there is an ignor option on this site, pretty soon you will be preaching to an audience of one, you.


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## babalu87 (Mar 17, 2007)

Can we stop with the Air Force One crap, its not as if Bush can jump in a Prius with the Secret Service ET AL and head to the ranch.

Bush ranch is WAY MORE green than any home Gore owns PERIOD, if Gore was in office would the energy policy be that much different? He didnt get green until he lost the election.
As far as Kerry goes, if he shows interest in our cause I would rather he carried the torch than Terd Kennedy


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## begreen (Mar 17, 2007)

Ash Can time. This thread is helping no one.


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## GVA (Mar 17, 2007)

I would appeal to the moderators to do that split thing and get rid of the part of this thread that went way Off topic....
I don't like him either........ but if there is a slight chance of someone, even him listening and helping why not give it a shot.


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## elkimmeg (Mar 17, 2007)

Here ius where we differ You sit at you keybioard in you world to critize others Please white up what you woiuld say put it down post it
  Currently I do not have the time I never mentioned this before  Mommie once told me that  it was ok to help others that need it
 I have done more today then many do in a life time that plow attached to my truck has assisted may elderly citizens yesterday and today
 No I do not charge them  some I do not even know I see them struggling with this very rain soaked snow And I make a psss or two and leave.
then there are the ones on my street for years I have asisted ocasionally they bake me a blueberrie pie or cookies. I would like to spread the good news liunch for me is over The church just called needing my backhoe to bucket and push back the piles. No I do not expect to get paid nor, will I ask. There are times when it feels good to give back. 

 Remodeling I have also been selective as if I charge of what I charge.  In this world there are doers and talkers I let the forum members figure out which is which
 I know a few will back me the ones I helped install theiir liners and stoves To me its ok to do the talk as long as you actions back it up.

 No thanks for dragging forum participation of the orginal post into the gutter. Want some saving grace  post  a complete wite up of the message you would send. That's all I asked 

 i do not have the interlectual prose that you claim I lack.


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## webbie (Mar 17, 2007)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Ash Can time. This thread is helping no one.



Moderators are temp indisposed.


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## GVA (Mar 18, 2007)

So are we letting this thread end?  8 Hours, nothing else on the positive side? :roll:


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## jjbaer (Mar 18, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Here ius where we differ You sit at you keybioard in you world to critize others Please white up what you woiuld say put it down post it
> Currently I do not have the time I never mentioned this before  Mommie once told me that  it was ok to help others that need it
> I have done more today then many do in a life time that plow attached to my truck has assisted may elderly citizens yesterday and today
> No I do not charge them  some I do not even know I see them struggling with this very rain soaked snow And I make a psss or two and leave.
> ...



Elk,

if you want someone to QC what you write, send it to me via PM and I'll scrub the English for you......


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## elkimmeg (Mar 18, 2007)

I just excersised the ignore option of this forum Never thought I needed it


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## BioPellet (Mar 20, 2007)

downeast said:
			
		

> elkimmeg said:
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> ...



Bush used congress'es athority to jump into war (and not continue inspections even though at the last hour Hussain opened all ports including his palaces for inspection)   Let's be clear here - congress gave the athority to pursue all means, including force, to enforce the UN mandates - BUSH - immeadiately chose force rather than inspections and deplomacy - it is the commander and chief - BUSH - that made the decision to invade IRAQ.

We are now stuck in our 5th year of another nation's civil war after having attacted a country that was never a threat to us, that had never attact us, that was ruled by a two bit toothless dictator who was never nor WOOD EVER BE a threat to us, ..... good lord!  ..... look, we were never better off after having attacked Vietnam   ....  nor are we any worse off for having left there - ---   except for the loss of 45000 american boys and 2-3 million Vietnamese


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## colsmith (Mar 24, 2007)

I think wood burning for heat purposes is highly misunderstood, i.e., people often see it as making pollution as opposed to being a renewable energy approach.   But we are doing something green, so why not talk it up.  Personally, burning wood is just one of many things I do to make the planet green.  Freecycle is another excellent system for reducing waste and consumption, are you all into that?  I even promote it in my annual holiday newsletter.  The free side of craigslist is good as well, although freecycle is all about reducing waste, and with craigslist it is incidental.  I also personally rescue a couple dozen boxes of produce almost every week and keep them out of the landfill, and get food to people or compost what doesn't make it.  But I suppose you want to focus your attention to one topic, namely wood burning and energy related issues?  

For editing purposes I am well qualified.  Did all sorts of editing and technical writing at AT&T, edited friends' papers throughout college, won the school spelling bee in 8th grade, and harass people occasionally on HearthNet for using apostrophes at random, so all the right background here.   Would be glad to proofread whatever you come up with.  Hard to imagine castiron and I are saying the same thing about something. ;-)  I am only online at night usually, sending me something by email is best.



> if Gore was in office would the energy policy be that much different? He didnt get green until he lost the election.


  Not to be ashcan-y, but I had to address this big lie.  If you knew anything about Al Gore, you'd know that he has been concerned about the environment for a couple decades at least.  He personally wrote a book about environmental issues.  It was published BEFORE he was ever vice president.  Hubby and I reviewed it.  I assure you that if Al Gore was president (like he should be!) energy policy would NOT have been decided behind closed doors by oil company executives.  He is really, truly concerned.


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## jjbaer (Mar 24, 2007)

BioPellet said:
			
		

> Bush used congress'es athority to jump into war (and not continue inspections even though at the last hour Hussain opened all ports including his palaces for inspection)   Let's be clear here - congress gave the athority to pursue all means, including force, to enforce the UN mandates - BUSH - immeadiately chose force rather than inspections and deplomacy - it is the commander and chief - BUSH - that made the decision to invade IRAQ.



BioPellet,

If democrats voted to give Bush the authority to do A, B, and C and Bush immediately proceeds to option "C" to invade Iraq, then the Democrats have only one person to blame if they don't like that..... and that person is seen in the bathroom mirror every morning and it's "themselves".  Let's be academically truthful here:  if they voted for giving Bush that authority and then when Buse uses that authority, they then cannot claim "it's not what we intended"..........


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## babalu87 (Mar 24, 2007)

Some Like It Hot said:
			
		

> > if Gore was in office would the energy policy be that much different? He didnt get green until he lost the election.
> 
> 
> Not to be ashcan-y, but I had to address this big lie.  If you knew anything about Al Gore, you'd know that he has been concerned about the environment for a couple decades at least.  He personally wrote a book about environmental issues.  It was published BEFORE he was ever vice president.  Hubby and I reviewed it.  I assure you that if Al Gore was president (like he should be!) energy policy would NOT have been decided behind closed doors by oil company executives.  He is really, truly concerned.



Why then is he using as much electricity in a month as you and I do in a year?
Carbon credits are a bunch of BS, look into it, you ever try to buy carbon credits....... difficult to impossible for the average Joe. He wants to get everyone green so he can make money. He buys carbon credits into a company he formed. 
Green? Green as the money in his pocket.


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## jjbaer (Mar 24, 2007)

babalu87 said:
			
		

> Some Like It Hot said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree.  I heard an analogy the other day...what if a fat lard-ass didn't want to stop eating and instead payed "fat credits" to a another person who then ate LESS to compensate for the excess the lard-ass ate..........I'll bet that 100% of people would laugh at that and think it a foolish idea....WELL...that's exactly what Gore is doing....instead of food, his gluttonous excess is "electricity" and to try to appease his conscience and make himself appear "green", he buys "carbon offsets" but only from his OWN company...that way he can appear to be green without really costing himself anything.......

If after the above example, people don't now see Gore for the hypocrite that he is, well, then I guess John Wayne had it right when he said "life's tough...it's even tougher when you're stupid"......


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## webbie (Mar 24, 2007)

Well, you might quote John Wayne, but my dad told me that people who got their jollies out of putting down others - well, suffice it to say they often have nothing better to do! And, they rarely meet up to their own standards.

And, BTW, "credits" of these types are used every day to offset pollution, develop land and in many other instances. Trying to simplify everything so that it makes sense in a "talk radio moment" may be fun, but it's not always educational.


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## jjbaer (Mar 24, 2007)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> Well, you might quote John Wayne, but my dad told me that people who got their jollies out of putting down others - well, suffice it to say they often have nothing better to do! And, they rarely meet up to their own standards.
> 
> And, BTW, "credits" of these types are used every day to offset pollution, develop land and in many other instances. Trying to simplify everything so that it makes sense in a "talk radio moment" may be fun, but it's not always educational.



Web,

please tell me and other forum members that you aren't "blind" to what Gore is doing and saying........he tells US what to do but won't practice these same policies himself......don't know where you were raised or what you were taught makes sense, but from where I come from, these people are hypocrits and we: 1) don't vote for them and 2) don't associate with the likes of them.......  what do you think?

BTW.   Christ would disagree with you and your father.....Christ said something like not to judge the person but you have an obligation to judge their actions........

All I'm doing is judging Gores actions.......do you have a problem with that and if so, why?


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## babalu87 (Mar 24, 2007)

Based on their respective homes, President Bush is the greenest of all. Frankly, it doesnt matter who the President is , BIG OIL continues to run this country as it has since the Nixon administration and until more of us are willing to try and do something about it we will all continue to be victimized by it. I read in the Boston Globe (I know they are a political rag but its free at work)  this week that the price of oil has dropped this week................ why did the price of gas go up????????
Oh, I know price fixing for profit. Anyone try to put a wood boiler in a truck?

Buying into carbon credits isnt helping clean up the power plants that he is sucking all the energy out of is it? Sad, Cadillac Deval said he would be "out and about" less due to his wifes "depression" yet he is as of right now expanding his mansion in the Berkshires.......... ugh I dont know anyone that could build a home without being there. 
When you have the ability to stay home and give support to your wife, thats depression.
When you do what you can but still have to pay the bills, thats toughing it out.


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