# Header Size for Woodshed.



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, so this is the year I am going to finally build my woodshed. I am going to go with a simple version of the attached plan. My question is on the header size...the plan is for a width of 8 feet, and I would like to make it about 10 or 12 feet long. The plan calls for a 2X10 header...if I increase from 8 feet, to 10 or 12, would a 2X10 header still be sufficient? (Side posts are going to be 4X4's and the joists will be 2X4 16" on center)


----------



## Jags (Mar 5, 2013)

For the $$ difference, I would not even question going up to 2 x 12", but I build everything with the expectation that a dump truck might fall out of the sky at any moment.


----------



## Shane N (Mar 5, 2013)

Jags said:


> For the $$ difference, I would not even question going up to 2 x 12", but I build everything with the expectation that a dump truck might fall out of the sky at any moment.


 
Gotta watch out for those sky-falling dump trucks. Good call.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 5, 2013)

Thats what I was thinking (2X12). Also, in the center (front and back) I will have an additional 4X4 post for extra support.
Basically, I have a home built wood fence that I am going to dismantle as the kids don't need to be contained anymore. So, I'll have a ton of 4X4 posts, and appx (30) 8 foot sections of 1 X 6 cedar. My goal is to make as much of the shed using the fence materials.


----------



## nate379 (Mar 5, 2013)

Usually for a header as such I see 2 2xs together... making it a 4x10.

In the past I've searched for load rating charts and I can't find solid info on it.


----------



## PapaDave (Mar 5, 2013)

I doubled mine...one inside and one outside, all 2x6, except the front one is a homemade lam beam of sorts and it's 1.75x8" if I remember correctly.
I'd go big, and if I had to do it over (and I may at some point), I'd notch the posts for the headers. Much stronger that way.
I did 2x6" for the roof @ 2' OC. Snow load hasn't been a problem....so far.
Heck, with that much already paid for material, make more than one. One for fresh split stuff, one for one year old stuff, then one you're pulling from.....rotate and repeat.

ETA: Keep us updated with ongoing pics, detailed drawings, splinter reports, etc., then the piece de resistance (I don't know how to do that in French)....a shed full of dry firewood.


----------



## Blue2ndaries (Mar 5, 2013)

Going bigger won't hurt.  Will you be bolting or nailing the header to the post?


----------



## PapaDave (Mar 5, 2013)

Man, I forgot,....... use drip edge. I had to go back and do mine (I forgot and someone here suggested it).
I'll probably remember some more stuff later. Maybe.


----------



## Blue2ndaries (Mar 5, 2013)

PapaDave said:


> Man, I forgot,....... use drip edge. I had to go back and do mine (I forgot and someone here suggested it).
> I'll probably remember some more stuff later. Maybe.


 
Ditto that---I put drip edge on all 4 fascias of my shed (really need that in Oregon). Also, you can beef up the header-to-post connection w/Simpson "strong ties". And of course, please post in-process and completed project pics.


----------



## PapaDave (Mar 5, 2013)

Not sure if you saw my woodshed thread Dave, but here ya go. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-wood-shed.49601/
HTH


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks guys.
Well, my plan was to go with a somewhat post/beam type setup versus what is in the plans.
I was going to notch out the posts at the tops for the front and rear headers (if thats the right lingo) and then I was going to use some additional pieces of the 4 X 4's I have for bracing at the top and bottom of the posts on a 45 degree angle where the header meets the post.
I'm a bolt /screw kinda guy, so I was planning on bolting the headers up once I have the posts notched out.
Also, on the outside of one end, I am going to make a little cabinet with a door and small shed roof to hold garden tools for the MRs's....just gotta get rid of this snow so I can get this project going. Will post pics and all my screw ups, lol


----------



## gzecc (Mar 5, 2013)

Double up on the 2x10 or 2x12. As long as you have the material make it strong. I had a tree snap behind mine and land on the roof. It survived only because of the 4x4 structual supports I installed, free from a playground set.


----------



## PapaDave (Mar 5, 2013)

Don't know how your weather compares, but I tried starting mine at the end of March, 3 years ago, and the ground was still frozen. I think I got most of the posts in the ground the 1st week of April.
It's all in my Woodshed thread.


----------



## ScotO (Mar 5, 2013)

2x10's or 2x12's are what I would use. Doubling up the header boards (one on either side of the 4x4 posts) would be plenty strong enough, and the fact that you aren't building a second floor on it, I wouldn't bother notching the header board into the top of the posts.....that's just my opinion.....

i'd be using 2x6 or 2x8 rafters every two feet on center for the sheeting on the roof. Bracing will beef the whole structure up. I'd probably notch the bracing into the posts, and put it between the header boards......

We expect full progress reports with pictures....or you're fired......


----------



## JustWood (Mar 5, 2013)

You could double stack 2x6's to get your 2x12 also. Inside and out if you really want strength.
 We get serious snow load here and I double stacked offset  2x10's under 22 and 24' rafters to get strength..


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 5, 2013)

Nice, good info for me here. Thanks all.
I'm pretty much notching the post for more asthetic reasons than anything....just like the looks of tng/post-beam, etc.
Snow load isn't too bad here...but to be safe should I go with 2X6's on the joists? or perhaps just double up on a few of the 2X4's?
Will post pics, you guys will have a good laugh of my less than stellar carpentry skills, lol


----------



## ScotO (Mar 5, 2013)

daveswoodhauler said:


> Nice, good info for me here. Thanks all.
> I'm pretty much notching the post for more asthetic reasons than anything....just like the looks of tng/post-beam, etc.
> Snow load isn't too bad here...but to be safe should I go with 2X6's on the joists? or perhaps just double up on a few of the 2X4's?
> Will post pics, you guys will have a good laugh of my less than stellar carpentry skills, lol


I'd go with at least 2x6 roof rafters, and I'd be doing 2x8 floor joists if it were my shed.

You'll be fine.  It'll be ten times better than my shed......(I haven't built it yet!)


----------



## gerry100 (Mar 5, 2013)

don't forget the asteriods.

My woddshed was built to withstand an asteroid  strike. Stronger is better and costs only  tiny bit more

But realisticly, It's a woodshed - you don't care about a little sag. I think a sufficient roof pitch and a metal roof ( allowing snow to slide off) is more important.


----------



## ScotO (Mar 5, 2013)

And to save you grief down the road, make your floor joists and rim boards out of pressure treated, it'll hold up much better against the ground, and it will deter any termite infestation down the road.  Anything that comes into contact with the ground (posts, joists, etc) I'd use PT.  What are you planning for flooring?  I plan on gapping my floorboards (actually will be recycling my buddy's deck) so air can get at the bottom of the stack, too.....


----------



## oldspark (Mar 5, 2013)

I have plans for a pole building wood shed 24 X 8 and it uses a 2 X 10 for the header but it has posts every 8 feet so the 2 X 10 is supported every 8 feet, it uses 2 X6 rafters. The book calls for  double 2 x 10's for a open span of 12 feet.


----------



## Mr A (Mar 5, 2013)

Everything you ever want to know about lumber spans- http://napasolanoicc.org/Links/IBCSpanTables_NapaSolanChapterFinal.pdf
 These tables are for occupied buildings to be built to the building codes. It would be overkill for your simple cover shed. The 2X10 in the plan would be fine. 2X4 roof support also fine up to 10' spans. Consider your snow load in spacing the roof supports.  Choose a weather resistant species of lumber. Probably whatever is used for wooden fencing in your area would be best. Pressure treated tends to warp.


----------



## oldspark (Mar 5, 2013)

Well you do what you want but in Mass. 2X4 rafters wont cut it (snow load), not sure I would ever do 2 X 4 rafters unless the span was about 6 feet.


----------



## Mr A (Mar 5, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Well you do what you want but in Mass. 2X4 rafters wont cut it (snow load), not sure I would ever do 2 X 4 rafters unless the span was about 6 feet.


The span is only 5'. I 've built freeway overpasses using 2x4 deck shoring to hold up several tons of concrete and steel placed on them. that is with 3/4" plywood on top of the 2x4, spaced 12" apart, 4' spans between girders.  Snow  is 7-20 pounds pcf, concrete 150 pcf. Built to plan, that shed will be just fine.


----------



## glennm (Mar 6, 2013)

If you put an extra post in the middle you have cut the span in half. That will reduce the load on the beam considerably. If you do that you can put a divider in the centre of the shed and easily remove wood from either side. I didn't put a back on mine so I can get wood out frome either the front or back. Make it as big as you can, life will be good!


----------



## oldspark (Mar 6, 2013)

Yea I was thinking he was going to make it more than the 5 feet wide if he was going to lengthen it.


----------



## Stegman (Mar 6, 2013)

I think a header of that size might be overkill. I built a 9x12 lean-to woodshed and used two sistered 2x6s for the 12-foot header [I do have an third support 4x4 post in the middle, though]. This was at the advice of my brother-in-law, who has been a carpenter for 25 years. And I second the notion that you should be using 2x6s rather than 2x4s for the rafters. I did mine every two feet on center.


----------



## BobUrban (Mar 7, 2013)

Whatever you decide add 10-20% to the overall dimentions.  As with pole buildings, garages, storage buildings of any sort - once finished you ALWAYS wish it was a little bit larger.  The cost on the front end is a little bit more but the payoff on the back end is priceless.


----------



## oldspark (Mar 7, 2013)

I think the plans I have for the 24 X 8 would be the perfect size. You can reduce the size by 8 feet just by taking a bay away. 16 X 8 would be nice also.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 7, 2013)

More good info. Thanks all. I am thinking 12 X 6...I burn about 2 cords a year, so this should give me enough room to stack inside with a grid pattern to allow airflow and help with seasoning. My biggest issue is going to be digging the footings as there is a nearby tree and I am going to het some huge roots. I'd like to get the footings down 30", but may have to settle for less depending on what the digging holds.


----------



## gerry100 (Mar 7, 2013)

Maybe this has been said but-

You need extra room for the actual stacking process,parking your wood cart/wheelbarrow etc, and I find extra floorspace useful for piling those chunks/uglies out of the way for extra aging


----------



## gerry100 (Mar 7, 2013)

daveswoodhauler said:


> More good info. Thanks all. I am thinking 12 X 6...I burn about 2 cords a year, so this should give me enough room to stack inside with a grid pattern to allow airflow and help with seasoning. My biggest issue is going to be digging the footings as there is a nearby tree and I am going to het some huge roots. I'd like to get the footings down 30", but may have to settle for less depending on what the digging holds.


 
With the rocky and root filled soil of the NE you'll be lucky to dig 4-6 holes in the right places that can go down 30" without dynamite.

Lesser hole depth only means a little more heaving which will mean nothing to a structure with a little flex in it. It's not like you're worried about cracking plaster or uneven floors.

A pole barn I built 30yrs ago sits entirely on flat rocks with no post holes at all (the first two holes I dug filled w
 water). Just another alternative


----------



## Flamestead (Mar 8, 2013)

If you have a university Extension office close by you can see if they have any plans. I did a quick online search and found free engineered polebarn plans for regions with no snowload. Keep poking around and you might find something useful.There are plan books that will provide example designs for headers, rafters, etc. These days they try selling some of the books, but if you knew just what you wanted, some offices would photocopy a page or two for you. Some of the better books (in the $15 range) go into wind and snow loads (no falling dump truck loads (that I've seen)), as well as detailed discussions of various grades of lumber and plywood, as well as fasteners.

I agree with a lot of the posts above - for a small shed, why not over-engineer? Alternatively, find an older shed locally that you like the design of and that has stood the test of time. Spend some time there with a measuring tape, note pad, and camera.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 22, 2013)

Well, I feel like Scotty Overkill lol.
Last weekend I was able to dig 6 footing holes 30-32" deep and picked up 6 sona tubes (8" each)
Would like to get and work some more this weekend, but the freakin foot of snow we got this week didn't help.
My wife is going to be shaking her head at me when she sees me snowblowing the footprint of the wood shed in the backyard, lol.
Will take some pics of the progress, but the holes are filled with snow


----------



## 19FarmHand78 (Mar 22, 2013)

daveswoodhauler said:


> Well, I feel like Scotty Overkill lol.
> Last weekend I was able to dig 6 footing holes 30-32" deep and picked up 6 sona tubes (8" each)
> Would like to get and work some more this weekend, but the freakin foot of snow we got this week didn't help.
> My wife is going to be shaking her head at me when she sees me snowblowing the footprint of the wood shed in the backyard, lol.
> Will take some pics of the progress, but the holes are filled with snow


 
6 footing holes I assume your doubling the size of the shed to 16x6 or so?? I was going to suggest doing that, leaving a wall in the center. The center wall will do two things, one= help hold stacks up. And two= if you built it this way, basicly having two 8 foot bays you can do away with the headers, use 2x6 rafters at each 6' wall, then run 2x4 purlins over top of your rafters running the 16' direction at 24" O.C. The purlins need to be on edge to span the 8 foot bays. This way you can use either steel roofing, or if it was my shed use the fiber glass or poly see through panels. I attached a drawing to show my thinking.

I build and design post frame buildings for a living, I know this will work.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Mar 22, 2013)

Nice info. My original plan was for 11 or 12 X 6....but I was running into an issue on transporting 12' headers....I might know go 14 X 6 and I can use 7 foot sections with the post in the middle. Great Idea.


----------



## daveswoodhauler (Apr 5, 2013)

Scotty Overkill said:


> And to save you grief down the road, make your floor joists and rim boards out of pressure treated, it'll hold up much better against the ground, and it will deter any termite infestation down the road. Anything that comes into contact with the ground (posts, joists, etc) I'd use PT. What are you planning for flooring? I plan on gapping my floorboards (actually will be recycling my buddy's deck) so air can get at the bottom of the stack, too.....


 
Well, got the headers figured out, now starting to figure out the floor joist/stringer size??. The floor size will be appx 12 X 6. I was going to use PX 2 X 6's 16" on center, but I am now concerned the weight will be too much. (I plan on the shed holding appx 2 cords of seasoned wood (split and stacked for 18 months before going in the shed) I left enough room on either side of the post bracket so that I can have each 2 X 6 resting on the concrete footings (footings are 8" and go down anywhere from 22-34")
I'd like to stay with 2 X 6's, as I don't want a huge rise up to the shed.....but maybe need 2 X 8's)


----------



## StihlHead (Apr 5, 2013)

Just make the 2x6 joists 12 inches OC to gain a lot of strength. Use Simpsons to attach them.

As for the OP, snow loading in MA is serious (yes, like a truck parked up on the roof). I used this beam span calculator when I rebuilt my garage:

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp

It will calculate floor joists, beam and rafter spans. For a 6 ft floor span 2x6 at 16 OC should be fine (using doug fir or southern pine #2 grade wood). That can span 8 ft with a live/dead load of 60/20 psf. 12 inches OC would be overkill, but I would use that spacing myself.


----------

