# 2014/2015 VC Owners thread.



## jharkin (Oct 19, 2014)

That time of year again folks - inviting all Vermont Castings owners to join us and share in the pain .   Share your experiences, ask questions, and lets all help each other try to avoid nuclear meltdown in our living rooms.


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## jharkin (Oct 19, 2014)

I'll start.

I cleaned out the Encore today. You might remember that after the big rebuilt last year I continued to struggle with stalls and smoke that I think was due to the steelcat gone bad. Close to the end of the year I got it warranty exchanged for a ceramic and things began to improve.


Well take a look at what I found on clean out today. This is after about 1.5 cord. 









uggggggg. I know my wood was good last year, most well under 20%. I'm hoping this was from the steel, but will have to wait till the end of season cleanout to prove if the ceramic fixed it.

If not it might be finally time to get rid of this thing... which may end up meaning no stove _period _as my wife has become completely soured on the idea of a woodstove in the house at all from our troubles with this beast.


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## jharkin (Oct 19, 2014)

On the bright side, refractory and cat look great, nothing but fine white ash in the firebox and behind the firebox... So Im keeping my fingeres crossed thats all old per-ceramic cat buildup and this year will be better.

pleeeeeeaaaaaaassssseeeee .







And if you dont believe me on the wood... Also took a look at the fireplace. 3 years of burning the same wood since the last cleaning and the clay flue tiles are nearly spotless.


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## grobinson2 (Oct 21, 2014)

I hope you are able to report that it was in fact the steel cat.  That said I never did get my 1975 (New Model) to stop smoking out the chimney with both cat and of course ever-burn installed.  For that matter I never got the stove to burn without crudding up the windows either.  

Thanks again,
Glenn


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## Diabel (Oct 21, 2014)

Hi everyone.
Another season is upon us....what will it bring? Creosote!
I finally ordered all the parts needed for my 2550. The plan was to have the rebuild complete for the start of this season. Well, as I type I am still using my limping 0028! She is doing ok considering my makeshift fix I performed at the end of last season. 
My goal now is to have the stoves swapped by Nov 30th. 

I am glad J. started this thread.......I will need some guidance with my rebuild. 
Happy Burning!!


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## Charles1981 (Oct 21, 2014)

My wood is almost 2 years seasoned instead of 9 months now (from last year). Have about 5 cords of wood seasoned almost 2 years now and just c\s\s another 6 cords this summer that should be nominally ready next year.

The encore has been burning better than ever. (I also have a brand new catalyst after 2 years, as the previous disintegrated last year and cracked badly the year before).

I am hoping it went bad because of wet wood... but there have been 2-3 over fire events that I know of in the past 2 years since having the stove and hope those events were more integral to cat failure then anything else...

Anyway it is 31 tonight and have only been having evening fires. Burning cotton wood which has been getting 6-7 hour burn times which i think is amazing. Stove is in the insulated finished basement as well heating 2100sq feet.

Couldn't be happier...untill it gets 10 below again. Stove works a little rough when it gets below zero temps, but right now its 85 in the basement right now and 73 upstairs.

The cotton wood I harvest off my property, but the other 5 cords plus the 6 i cut this summer are all hardwood I ordered.


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## Fod01 (Oct 21, 2014)

Hi Guys - no pain to report with the Montpelier.  Just did the annual cleaning of the squirrel cage fan. I had a small fire the other morning and it was rattling big time.

Looks like at least another week before I fire up again.

Gabe


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## Mr.K (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi all.  I have been thinking of getting an insert ever since last winter....open fireplace looks nice, but not very efficient.  I ordered a VC Montpelier from a local dealer, and it is coming this week.  I am looking forward to it, but I am a little nervous about burning for the first season.  I am hoping to cut down on oil use.  I have been reading some of these threads for the past week or so.....very helpful.....but I guess it's a hands on learning process.  My biggest concern is quality of wood.  I have about half a cord left from last winter, which looks like it is plenty dry.  But since I just pulled the trigger on purchasing the insert, I had to find wood in a hurry.....I have 2 cords coming this week from someone who SAYS their wood is seasoned, but who knows.  It will have to do for this season.....but I should have plenty of wood for the following season, as I am having 5 giant maples taken down from my property......will just let that season!


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## Fod01 (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi Mr K and welcome.  The new insert will smoke a bit the first few times it gets hot. You'll need to open windows.  Buy a moisture meter to see just how seasoned that wood really is.  If you're having any issues (stove not hot; dirty glass; smoke in the house etc) its good to know if the wood may be at fault

Most of all enjoy and best of luck with it
Gabe


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## Mr.K (Nov 2, 2014)

Fod01 said:


> Hi Mr K and welcome.  The new insert will smoke a bit the first few times it gets hot. You'll need to open windows.  Buy a moisture meter to see just how seasoned that wood really is.  If you're having any issues (stove not hot; dirty glass; smoke in the house etc) its good to know if the wood may be at fault
> 
> Most of all enjoy and best of luck with it
> Gabe


Hi Gabe, and thanks for the response.  Are all moisture meters created equal?  I am already prepared to split the wood smaller if I need to...
Joe


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## Excavator (Nov 2, 2014)

Hi guys, Since I rebuilt my 0028 Encore last year and installed new cat I had plenty time to experiment. I have come to conclusion that with my insulated liner and new cat that I must engage cat much sooner then before. Stove top temps at 350 and I close damper then my cat digital probe will start reading 350 in 30 seconds. When the digital meter shows cat at 950 - 1000 I close air half way and then 5 minutes later i close air all the way.I cleaned my liner last month and got about a quart of very fine black pepper like dust. I have no problems with it running over hot when I follow this practice


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## Fod01 (Nov 2, 2014)

Mr. K  - just noticed that you're from LI.  Maybe we're neighbors.
I've had my Monte for 6 seasons.  Feel free to give me a shout if you have any questions

My moisture meter is a 'General' from amazon.  I forget how much$$.  You re-split a log then jam the barbs into the fresh split face.  20% or less and you're good now.  Slightly over will be good later in the season. 25% and over....next year (at least in my yard with big oaks and maples).  Cue the seasoned wood police- but I have a small yard and cant stockpile too far ahead.

Regards
Gabe


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## Charles1981 (Nov 2, 2014)

Your wood from last year should burn well. But you don't have a large amount.

The wood that you have delivered will be questionable and you won' know unless you test it.

The generals consensus here is it isn't seasoned until proven otherwise.

It would be a good experiment to try: start a fire with your older wood one day, then buy some scrap non-treated discard pieces at the big box orange or blue store and try a few small loads (as these guys can really take off on you) and then try a load with just the new wood and see if you have some issues between them. Not necessary but could be interesting for ya. 

If the new wood isn't seasoned it may be harder to catch fire, put out less heat, and may tend to half difficulty keeping firebox temperatures as high as the other products.

I still think you will enjoy the stove no matter what


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## Mr.K (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks for the input, gents.  I am running to the big blue store at lunch today to pick up a moisture meter.  Gabe, where do you get your wood from here on the island?  I am hoping to find some wherever I can throughout the year, not looking to buy every year.  I am on the south shore here.


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## Fod01 (Nov 3, 2014)

Sent you a PM sir.

g


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## Mr.K (Nov 6, 2014)

Hi all....having my VC installed in the morning.  Two full cords delivered this afternoon.......had to throw a big tarp over it for today, as it's been raining all day here.  Keeping my fingers crossed for a smooth install...


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## 31 bertram (Nov 7, 2014)

Rebuilt my 2550 last year and it has been doing real good.  Tomorrow I'm gonna order a new combustor, and digital combustion thermometer.  I really enjoy this stove.


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## Excavator (Nov 7, 2014)

31 bertram said:


> Rebuilt my 2550 last year and it has been doing real good.  Tomorrow I'm gonna order a new combustor, and digital combustion thermometer.  I really enjoy this stove.



You will love the digital thermometer. Only think I don't like is that the digital only stays on about 4 minutes then shuts off till u press button again. But the temp reading of the cat is GREAT to know what is going on inside. It will scare you sometimes how hot it will read the first hour if wood is very dry.


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## missedbass (Nov 7, 2014)

Mr.K said:


> Thanks for the input, gents.  I am running to the big blue store at lunch today to pick up a moisture meter.  Gabe, where do you get your wood from here on the island?  I am hoping to find some wherever I can throughout the year, not looking to buy every year.  I am on the south shore here.


 I believe they have the general mm on sale now at the big blue store. As far as getting wood, you can keep your eye on craigs list or call a local tree service- they usually will dump wood off to you if they are doing a job near you. My monti has been great for 5 years now. I made up some filters for the blower intakes to help keep the wheels clean. Good luck and happy burning!


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## Fod01 (Nov 7, 2014)

Feel free to tell us about those filters
Gabe


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## Mr.K (Nov 7, 2014)

Yes, please.  I am interested in hearing about those filters also.


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## missedbass (Nov 7, 2014)

I picked up some filter material for window unit a/c's and just cut to fit. it is held up with magnets. Its easy to remove and blow out and helps keep the dust out of the blower wheels. Since they are on the intakes, the filter media stays cool. However, if I can find black filter material that would be better.


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## jharkin (Nov 8, 2014)

I must have missed a reply since I didnt get any updates... glad to see so much interest.



grobinson2 said:


> I hope you are able to report that it was in fact the steel cat.  That said I never did get my 1975 (New Model) to stop smoking out the chimney with both cat and of course ever-burn installed.  For that matter I never got the stove to burn without crudding up the windows either.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Glenn




I had the first fire last week.  So far so good, got up to temp quickly and was cruising at a nice 1350 cat temp on 4 splits with only steam from the stack.
Keeping my fingers crossed for this year.

I did the math actually and even if I had a real full gallon of crud thats still less than an 1/8th in my 18ft of 6inch pipe... Unless it was all at the top.  Still hoping for better this year., though I dont think Im going to ever get the half a coffee can like the Woodstock guys do.


BTW, dont worry about the windows. Every cat stove blackens the windows burned low, just ask the Blaze King guys.



Mr.K said:


> Hi all.  I have been thinking of getting an insert ever since last winter....open fireplace looks nice, but not very efficient.  I ordered a VC Montpelier from a local dealer, and it is coming this week.



Keep us posted. The Montpelier is a traditional burn tube design so you will have non of the downdraft finickyness the rest of us fight with.



Excavator said:


> Hi guys, Since I rebuilt my 0028 Encore last year and installed new cat I had plenty time to experiment. I have come to conclusion that with my insulated liner and new cat that I must engage cat much sooner then before. Stove top temps at 350 and I close damper then my cat digital probe will start reading 350 in 30 seconds. When the digital meter shows cat at 950 - 1000 I close air half way and then 5 minutes later i close air all the way.I cleaned my liner last month and got about a quart of very fine black pepper like dust. I have no problems with it running over hot when I follow this practice



Interesting, I'd like to try that ut Ive never gotten a clean engagement with my griddle temps below 450, even on a new cat. 

Where are you measuring stove top temp?.



Excavator said:


> You will love the digital thermometer. Only think I don't like is that the digital only stays on about 4 minutes then shuts off till u press button again. But the temp reading of the cat is GREAT to know what is going on inside. It will scare you sometimes how hot it will read the first hour if wood is very dry.




Agreed. A remote catalyst temp monitor is a must have on these stoves, IMHO.


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## Mr.K (Nov 8, 2014)

Souds like everyone is off to a fine start for the season.


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## jharkin (Nov 8, 2014)




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## Excavator (Nov 8, 2014)

JHARKIN   I am taking stove top temps just in back of the griddle but on stove itself not griddle.
I must have a very strong draft because if I let stove top reach 450 or higher before closing bypass then my digital probe will get out of hand and I can't slow the burn down. If i close bypass at stove top at 350-400 I have mush better control and can leave air lever open longer and slow burn down when I need too


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## Mr.K (Nov 8, 2014)

That's awesome


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## Excavator (Nov 9, 2014)

I still believe the fuel we pick to burn has the most affect on this because sometimes I load with some smaller splits from another pile and I will be burning too hot first hour


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## OK_Bill (Nov 14, 2014)

First post on the forum - howdy from OKC, OK! 

Having good success with my brand new VC Encore "flexburn" 2044.  This afternoon, I fired it up in CAT mode and it was amazing.  Loaded 4 medium splits of good solid oak well seasoned, let the griddle get up to about 350 then engaged the cat.  I only have a surface thermometer, so I kept an eye on the chimney and within about 5 minutes the cat lit off.  Zero smoke, zero steam and no visible heat coming out of the chimney (18' x 6").  With the primary air fully open, the stove sounded really serious, emitting a low rumble and making TONS of heat.  At about 500F griddle temp I slowly began shutting the primary air down and within about 15 min it was all the way down to the lowest setting.

This yielded about 4 hours of solid run time with griddle temps around 650, after which the heat very gradually cooled off.  After 6 hours I had a working coal bed.  Not bad for only 4 splits to start with...  tonight I'll load her up more fully and see if I can get a longer run.

I do have a question:

Cat probe.  This stove (VC Encore model 2044) isn't set up to accept a probe at all.  I could get one in there, but it would entail drilling through the cast iron back as well as through the refractory fireback just above the CAT to get the probe in.  Is it ok to do this?  Would you do it?

*VC Encore sittin pretty  *





edit:  model number changed from 2040 to 2044 (bordeaux color)


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## 31 bertram (Nov 14, 2014)

Bill, that's a beautiful stove set up.  Welcome to the forum.  I don't have any info on the probe as I've just ordered mine and waiting on it to show up.
Bo


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## MountainStoveGuy (Nov 14, 2014)

Well now that hearth and home technologies bought VC, life should be good !


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## OK_Bill (Nov 15, 2014)

Update:  3 burns done in CAT mode, all with medium (4"-6") oak splits.  The stove still hasn't been loaded fully to the top, but I'm hesitant to do that until I get some more feedback from y'all about temperature regulation:

Question:  Running solidly in CAT mode, I have a mag thermometer placed as shown:






With the primary air control turned completely down, the thermometer will get up to about 570-580F and seems to regulate there.  Is that OK? Or is that too hot?  This thermometer is marked "too hot" with a red zone starting at 475F, but I think this may not be correct for this stove - again I'm not sure about what's an acceptable running temp and what's too hot.

I do see that if I crank the primary air control to, say, the mid position the stove will heat up more but its plenty hot as is!!  The burn last night had 6 medium splits of good dry oak loaded, which filled the burn chamber up about 3/4 full.  That yielded about 7 hours of good heat.  Seems like it should be able to regulate down a bit more...  ??  (perhaps my splits are too small and/or too dry)

Any help here will be MUCH appreciated... thanks


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## OK_Bill (Nov 15, 2014)

31 bertram said:


> Bill, that's a beautiful stove set up.  Welcome to the forum.  I don't have any info on the probe as I've just ordered mine and waiting on it to show up.
> Bo



Let us know when you get the probe installed.  I'm going to order one today:

Condar Digital Cat Probe


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## Reckless (Nov 23, 2014)

OK_Bill said:


> Update:  3 burns done in CAT mode, all with medium (4"-6") oak splits.  The stove still hasn't been loaded fully to the top, but I'm hesitant to do that until I get some more feedback from y'all about temperature regulation:
> 
> Question:  Running solidly in CAT mode, I have a mag thermometer placed as shown:
> 
> ...


First get a condor probe. second, I put the therm on the griddle personally and like to run to stove in the 650 range (1300+/- cat).


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## hydes2004 (Nov 23, 2014)

Guys, I ordered the condar digital probe for my wwl.  It should arrive Tuesday.  I'm going to crack this thing open, and see if it has a countdown timer in the pcb board.  If so In going to bypass it.  If it works the display should should be on the entire time


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## Reckless (Nov 23, 2014)

Adjusting the airwash. With the stove cold and front doors closed remove the griddle and reach in through the top and feel how the airwash lines up. Adjust this screw as needed, keep in mind that the airwash and door is threaded so you may need to unscrew it from the door to adjust it properly. 




My glass is a little dirty since I'm doing small break in fires from my complete rebuild.


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## Reckless (Nov 23, 2014)

hydes2004 said:


> Guys, I ordered the condar digital probe for my wwl.  It should arrive Tuesday.  I'm going to crack this thing open, and see if it has a countdown timer in the pcb board.  If so In going to bypass it.  If it works the display should should be on the entire time


Sounds good! Hope you bought a wall plug also (or make one) cause that thing eats batteries already. Take some pics for us.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 23, 2014)

I have a 9v wall wart with 9v battery terminals soldered to the end.  I also put a spst switch in line to turn it on and off.


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## Reckless (Nov 23, 2014)

hydes2004 said:


> I have a 9v wall wart with 9v battery terminals soldered to the end.  I also put a spst switch in line to turn it on and off.


I did something very similar. 9v plug from my collection of power supplies (I tend to hoard old plugs lol) and a 9v terminal from and old smoke detector. The switch is a nice touch for if you figure out how to bypass that damn count down timer. Good luck!!


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## touchthewindrider (Nov 23, 2014)

Hello all.  I'm so glad to have found this VC thread.  I've got an old VC Dutchwest Sequoia that I rebuilt last year and earlier this year I replaced the CAT.  I'm still learning how burn this stove, even after a couple of years.  These comments about CAT temps and stove top temps have me wondering.  The temp gauge I have sits directly above the CAT.  From the comments I have to consider this is the temp of the CAT. Correct?  If so, I read that it is not unusual to have CAT temps at 1000 degrees.  Again, correct?  I've been operating the stove using that temperature measure to regulate the stove at around 600 to 700 degrees. If the gauge is reading the temp of the CAT, have I been running the stove inefficiently. Would it be better to have CAT temps of 1000 or there about degrees?  Should I also get a magnetic thermometer to measure the  stove top? Maybe placed further toward the rear or the side. away from the CAT?

Thanks!


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## OK_Bill (Nov 24, 2014)

MountainStoveGuy said:


> Well now that hearth and home technologies bought VC, life should be good !



Hearth and Home Technologies never bought VC.  They're a sub-brand of HNI Corp (NYSE: HNI).

HNI bought VC from Monessen Hearth Systems Oct 1, 2014.  So, VC is also a sub-brand of HNI just like Hearth & Home is.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 24, 2014)

Not sure I'm allowed in this thread with all the nice stoves, with my old Dutchwest 2460.  At any rate, I put in new OEM gaskets, sealed the vertical seams inside the stove, and she runs out nicely now. BTW, I have one of the "bad" diesel-foil cats in it. Just loaded the stove, burned in for about 15 min, then dropped the bypass with 200 on the cat probe. Cat was glowing within a minute.


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## OK_Bill (Nov 24, 2014)

Ok - so I think I've got this thing figured out.

So many issues:  the VC "3-burn" thing; all the air seals and thermostats and moving parts; all the darn refractory complications; down draft mystique; complete confusion about all the burn modes ...  CAT, non-cat, damper open or closed ... the list just goes on and on and on and ON.

Well, guys its nothing we've never dealt with before really.  --  No, really its not. --   While responding to another post, I realized there's a better explanation of why the VC stoves have such a - can I say it - _seductive_ attraction.  Why they entice us with all their idiosyncrasies complications and predilections?

Shhh -_ whispering now_ - _these stoves are just like women._

YES!  Think about it:  What are the similarities between my so so sooooo sexy Bordeaux Red Encore and ... wait for it ... my wife?   god help me but I just have to get this off my chest

It has lots of pretty curves
It can be needy

It has lots of parts that can get tweaked the wrong way
It can run hard and get all dirty but cleans up well
Sometimes its hard to figure out what's wrong
When its in the right mood, its downright amazing
I love it
Okay so there you have it all summed up!


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## Reckless (Nov 24, 2014)

OK_Bill said:


> Ok - so I think I've got this thing figured out.
> 
> So many issues:  the VC "3-burn" thing; all the air seals and thermostats and moving parts; all the darn refractory complications; down draft mystique; complete confusion about all the burn modes ...  CAT, non-cat, damper open or closed ... the list just goes on and on and on and ON.
> 
> ...


HA!! That's great man dead on.


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## Charles1981 (Nov 24, 2014)

hrmmm. I want to and plan to trade in my stove in a few years for a newer model..... Good thing my stove isn't pregnant. It won't be getting child support.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 25, 2014)

So the probe is installed.  I threw some stove cement around the seems.  I'm going to let this dry overnight before I go ahead and put the sheet metal outer covers on.  My fear is that I'm going to tweak the wire and move the probe before the cement hardens.  Here is a pic


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## Reckless (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm finally cruising at 1250 and everything seems good after my complete rebuild.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 25, 2014)

What kind of stove??


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## Reckless (Nov 25, 2014)

hydes2004 said:


> What kind of stove??


2550


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## Diabel (Nov 26, 2014)

My parts finally arrived for the 2550. I am debating, the stove at the moment is gutted, all of the inner parts are out. The outer shell is intact as well as the area underneath the refractory (where the throttle line runs).
Should I take apart the outer shell? This would then classify as a total rebuild, or should I bother?

I know some of the fellas here have done both, I need your opinion on how I should proceed. Ripping the outer shell apart would add substantial amount of labor hours.


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## Excavator (Nov 26, 2014)

I did not take shell apart on my 0028. I removed front doors then the damper, upper and lower fireback and then combuster and refractor. I used new gaskets including on front doors, griddle and ash pan


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## Reckless (Nov 26, 2014)

Diabel said:


> My parts finally arrived for the 2550. I am debating, the stove at the moment is gutted, all of the inner parts are out. The outer shell is intact as well as the area underneath the refractory (where the throttle line runs).
> Should I take apart the outer shell? This would then classify as a total rebuild, or should I bother?
> 
> I know some of the fellas here have done both, I need your opinion on how I should proceed. Ripping the outer shell apart would add substantial amount of labor hours.


It is ALOT of work. The only reason I did mine was the rear casting had a crack near the where the flue collar attaches. If you do decide to go ahead make sure you have plenty of grinding bits and most important DRY FIT THE STOVE BACK TOGETHER before you start applying cement. Make sharpie marks on all wall to wall meetings, especially where the rear meets the sides and upper fireback. You might also need a second set of hands when bolting the ufb back on.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Nov 26, 2014)

New guy to thread, I must say I love my VC Montpielier, I have had a long learning experience with it but that is mainly due to the the dryness of the wood, this is my third year burning and have all under 19.9% moisture content of firewood, this is my best year burning! room can get up to 80 degrees if I push it, I'm always messing around with it and trying to learn what's best for what time and temp is out there. But NOTHING BEATS DRY WOOD!.........


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## hydes2004 (Nov 26, 2014)

I have my winter warm out of the fireplace and am trying to clean it up.  Anyone have any tricks to get this creosote off??


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## begreen (Nov 26, 2014)

Hot fire for the top section. Use a torch or don't worry about it in the ash pan but make sure there are no air leaks on the door into that area.


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## Reckless (Nov 26, 2014)

begreen said:


> Hot fire for the top section. Use a torch or don't worry about it in the ash pan but make sure there are no air leaks on the door into that area.


+1 and burn dry wood [emoji13]
Don't worry about it.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 26, 2014)

Thanks guys,  wood is currently all less than 18%.  It's CSS for over 2 years now.   The door on the winter warn is a pita to seal properly.  Once I get it back into the fireplace, I'll do the dollar bill test.  So far she has all new gaskets, including the flue adaptor gasket, a nice clean cat, and the addition of a condar digital cat probe.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 26, 2014)

R
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








A shot of the cat probe


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## Diabel (Nov 26, 2014)

Thanks for the replies re the rebuild.
Reckless, great tip about the sharpie markings! Thank you.
I am tempted to tear it all apart, so I can say a total rebuild was done. That way I will not have doubts in terms of leaks. 
The 0028 is running surprisingly nice, with the makeshift refractory box. I might be pushing it however. The season is still young. I am starting to believe that she will last the season.....


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## EncoreInMass (Nov 26, 2014)

Hello All!
 I have to first say how grateful I am to the Hearth community. I have a VC Encore 2550 that was in our house when we moved in in 2003...I think it's a 2000 or 2001 model with Cat. Well all we have is electric baseboard and our first month in the house our electric bill was $635..and that was with all the thermostats at 68F...so we realized we had to get the stove working. All we would do is start a fire and let it burn. I had no idea how the cat worked...but for years whenever I closed the damper the stove would subtly leak smoke (not puff) out of the seams of the top and door...So we just never used the catalyst setting...
  Then I was poking around this year with a question about the fiberglass gasket that is around the rear bottom inlet and I found Hearth.com...and it has changed our heating world. It inspired me to take the fireback off and take a look at what was going on with that catalyst..Well to my delight and surprise the catalyst and refractory assembly were in beautiful shape..but I figured out why it wasn't working...the entire thing was filled with ash...all up the sides and through the catalyst! I cleaned the whole thing out and discovered 2 year ago I had thrown out the metal wedges that hold the fireback in...it was being held in by all the ash wedged in the seams..Once I cleaned it all out it would no longer stay in place...I have to order 2 wedges but for now I used to granite stones from my landscaping..
  Well since it's been fixed the cat works amazing. I can load up 2 or 3 logs and get a 4 hour burn with some serious heat. With our old method we would be burning 2 to 4 logs an hour to get the fire hot enough to heat the house...Now 2 logs heats the livingroom to 80F It's crazy to think of how much wood we have wasted. I burned 5 cords last winter and the fire went out maybe 4x. 
  We are going to also use some of the Idaho overnight logs this year...we're picking up a pallet of them to see what we think. We will be burning them at the end of the day to keep the fire overnight and to keep the fire going when we are at work. Already it's been a dream with the catalyst...I use to have to set an alarm for 4am to reload the stove or it would have been dead cold by 6:30 am...Now we are waking up to a 70+F livingroom....instead of 54-62F....
  Side note...in 2006 the right hand door hinge gouged it way through the base hole of the stove and the door was no longer staying on...I fixed it using a welders rod cut to fit deeper into the hole than the dangling rod. 
  We move the heat around the ranch house quite efficiently using small honeywell fans on the floor blowing back to the stove....we can get the 54F Master bedroom to 68+ degrees with just the fans. 
  Well time to load more wood...we are riding out this crazy snowstorm and it hit 80F in the livingroom...


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## Excavator (Nov 27, 2014)

EncoreinMass  Great story. Glad to see you dove in and found the problem. I always say that the problem can be solved. It is just 3 feet in front of you just waiting for some one to look whether it is a stove or a car or anything. This is the positive side of the internet and computers. We can search and find answers with just a little patience.


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

Excavator said:


> ... This is the positive side of the internet and computers. We can search and find answers with just a little patience.



Ain't that the truth!  My brand new Encore 2044 seemed to be burning a bit too fast and hot.  With the help of the forum here, I was able to diagnose and fix the issue.  Turns out there was a problem with the primary air control door not fully closing; the ash pan door latch was out of adjustment - and the damper manifold seal was misplaced.  

I was just thinking how difficult it would be to get all this resolved with maybe my Compton's encyclopedia set... NOT!  It would have required a service call for sure.

Happy Thanksgiving to y'all from OKC!


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

Much talk about CAT probes in the thread.  The other day I received the Condar digital unit with probe.  Looked ok and would definitely get the job done but I found something better.  Much better - and much less $$.

Its the AGPtek dual display unit.  *Price is only &17.98*








The AGPtek unit is two channel, so can monitor two type-K thermocouples.  On both channels, it also can track min/max/avg temps and can be user calibrated.  Like the Condar unit, this one runs on a 9v battery. It ships with 2 probes as shown that are rated for only 250C (480F) so I ordered a couple extra probes rated for higher temps:




These probes are perfect for CAT temp application with operating range from -100 to 1250C (2280F max) and are sized just right for placement through the factory located probe hole into the CAT chamber.  I'm gonna thread the hole in the back of the stove so this probe will neatly screw in.  Price is only $11.39.  So with the base unit the *total system cost is $40.76* (17.98 + 2x 11.39)  This with 2 of the above probes, and we're spending only about 1/3 the cost of the Condar digital system.

The motive to do this is because secondary air on the Encore 2040 is unregulated, and I want to know what its doing.  With this setup, it will be possible to see the CAT probe condition directly.

Next project might be to add a secondary air control door and control the stove with a custom programmed micro controller.  Use servo actuators on both primary and secondary air with multiple feedback sources such as CAT temp, stove top temp, flue temp, room temp, etc.  With this, the stove would be fully controllable and CAT temp could be regulated directly - similar to how BK's run but with much more finesse.  I bet burn times could be nearly doubled.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 27, 2014)

Wow wish you posted chandelier.  The condor is very cheesy and it's expensive


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

hydes2004 said:


> Wow wish you posted chandelier.  The condor is very cheesy and it's expensive



Chandelier?  Not sure what you mean there.... yes agree the Condor probe is $$$.  Its being returned for a refund.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 27, 2014)

Lol that supposed to say earlier.   Didn't take a double look at it as the 5 week old was screaming......   I am wondering what type of probe is on the condom.  I wonder if it is a k type...  then I could rig up something myself for the display.  The condar unit is controlled by a micro.  I was hoping it was just a timer I could disable, but that's not the case.


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

I don't know what probe the Condar unit uses, but if I was betting on it I'd guess its a type-K Chromel-Alumel type probe.


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## Charles1981 (Nov 27, 2014)

Damn man... where do you find all this stuff (the previous videos ect). You have to let us know how that temp probe works for you. I have hesitated in buying the Condar unit as I felt it was excessively pricey..

But if that setup works for ya I am definitely going to give that a whirl.


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

Charles, the videos were actually linked through this forum somewhat obscurely, so they did require some digging.  Yes, the simple single channel and rather coarse Condar system is pretty expensive for what it is.  Thermocouples are dirt simple, and should be priced accordingly.  The Condar folks are simply taking advantage of what they see as a captive audience.

I'll have a report on the AGPtek system in a couple days.

Anyhow - I have a question for you - since I'm getting a two channel unit, where do you think a good spot would be for the other probe?  I could stick it in the flue, or I could use one of the two supplied surface probes somewhere on the outside of the stove.  Any ideas?


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## OK_Bill (Nov 27, 2014)

_just noticed this:_



hydes2004 said:


> (snip)  I am wondering what type of probe is on the condom ...



Ummm... I'm not gonna tell you.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 27, 2014)

Lol,  spellcheck gets the best of me on the phone


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## hydes2004 (Nov 28, 2014)

So I'm think I'm going to tackle installing the liner and reinstalling the stove today.  I'll also add my wood score.  I have about 3+ barrels of hardwood floor scraps.  My soon to be brother in law owns his own flooring company.  He has been dropping these off lately.


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## hydes2004 (Nov 28, 2014)

Well, she's in. 8" liner installed.  It's 80 in the room, cat is at 1400 currently,  just cut the air back.  Here are a few pics.  Let the burning season commence!


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## Harmonica Papa (Nov 29, 2014)

Wood use??
I have a VC large winter warm and I am curious about wood use.   I know there are many variables on operation that impact this, but how much wood do you use on a typical day (24 hour burn), if the temperatures are in 20's or 30's (not real cold).  There are many ways of quantifying wood use (# of splits, arm loads, wheel barrows, etc) but if you could describe it in wheel barrows or cubic feet, that would be of most help.  I use a heaping 3 cubic foot wheel barrow (or a little more) on a typical day.  I'm trying to see if my wood use is in line with others.


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## Reckless (Nov 29, 2014)

Harmonica Papa said:


> Wood use??
> I have a VC large winter warm and I am curious about wood use.   I know there are many variables on operation that impact this, but how much wood do you use on a typical day (24 hour burn), if the temperatures are in 20's or 30's (not real cold).  There are many ways of quantifying wood use (# of splits, arm loads, wheel barrows, etc) but if you could describe it in wheel barrows or cubic feet, that would be of most help.  I use a heaping 3 cubic foot wheel barrow (or a little more) on a typical day.  I'm trying to see if my wood use is in line with others.


I'm running a 2550. 
What temp are you reloading your stove? Yesterday was a high of 32 overnight got down to 14 and I probably used a full wheelbarrow. I typically burn in 4 hour sets with 3-4 smaller splits maple, ash, oak then 4-6 large pieces of ash and oak for my 8hr +/- overnight (keep in mind I run my stove HOT 650 GT range and reload around 350ish. Your usage sounds a little high for a mild day imo.


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## Excavator (Nov 29, 2014)

when i am home i tend to load every 4 hours but when no one home stove burns slow and steady. Here is pic of my wood cart that 
i will burn through in 24 hours if i am home


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## Reckless (Nov 29, 2014)

^^^ that looks about right lol


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## Diabel (Nov 29, 2014)

I always see it as loading three to four splits every five six hours (sooner when it gets super cold). But now that I see that wood cart, it looks pretty much the same, what I burn. That is a decent amount of wood per 24h period. Thanks for the visual.


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## Harmonica Papa (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks for the info.  It was real helpful.  I am using a little more than the cart of wood shown.  

My damper is leaking and probably causing the inefficiency.   Regasketing a damper on a winter warm is a real pain,  and everytime I do it I say I won't do this again, but I guess I'll have to put on the armor and go fight the dragon.  Does anyone known of any self adhesive gasket material that might work on damper so I don't have to take stove apart.  

Also has anyone adjusted the primary air controls.   I don't get a whole lot of control with primary air so I'm conjecturing the unit needs adjustment.   If I put three or four beefy splits in the stove when there is a good bed of coals in it, the stove burns like a volcano for 10-15 minutes until the wood gets charred.  The chimney is 30 foot straight lined 8" double wall metal so maybe there is just too much draft.   I'm concerned I might be over loading it.  The front door is pretty tight so I'm guessing the damper seal or primary air is causing this.


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## Charles1981 (Nov 30, 2014)

I reload every 8 hours. Three times a day..morning, afternoon, before bed.

If it is below zero like last year we burn a lot hotter and load a fourth time.

But that is about a days worth of wood for us as well. In your cart.


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## OK_Bill (Dec 1, 2014)

As promised, I posted an in depth review of the AGPtek digital dual channel thermometer system over in the "gear" forum.  

The AGPtek system has been in place for 2 days now and working just fine!


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## Harmonica Papa (Dec 7, 2014)

Damper gasket on winter warm.  I have seen several posts about installing damper gaskets in a winter warm.  It's a pain to install them.  Taking the upper fireback off and removing damper frame is the preferred "right" method, but I don't have the will or strength for that anymore.  Installing them with no disassembly is also a pain cause the gasket won't stay put and keeps falling out before one can get the damper shut.  This is how I solved the problem. 

I do the gasket in two phases 1)top and sides and 2)bottom.  I bought 2 medium sized potato chip bag clips (1 1/2" wide cheapest ones from Target that came in a four clip set for $4) and hold the gasket in place on the top of each side.  Once you get the gasket in the top you can shut the damper and remove the clips.  Then wait for the cement to set and then do the bottom by itself.  You can't use the clips on bottom because of angles and such but that gasket will more easily stay in place while the door can be shut. 

I also recommend Rutland black stove gasket cement.  I also cut a piece of plastic garbage bag a little bit bigger than damper door and put it between door and gasket so gasket won't stick to door when I close it.   I hope this will last a whole or at least a half of season.  Even at half season it's better than going over the falls in a barrel with the upper fireback again.


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## Reckless (Dec 12, 2014)

Almost a month in after my complete tear down of the 2550 and I must say, for me, it was worth it. Today I closed off the secondary air with tin foil (as I have in years past) and also stuffed gasket into the epa holes and what a difference for my situation! (My house has crazy draft) Right after rebuild until last night I would cruise 1450-1500 which is too boarderline for me. Today I'm 3 fires in and the control I have is awesome I can dial in the cat/griddle temp depending if I want heat or long burns( cat temps anywhere from 1150-1450 and back down if need be). It may not work for everyone but it's worth a try if you don't have precise control over your stove.
Stay warm!!


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## hydes2004 (Dec 14, 2014)

Kinda of pissed.  I re did the gasket on my winter warm large.  Burned it all day yesterday without issue,  now I'm sitting here watching the Cowboys Eagles game and smell smoke.  I have the air cut all the way back,  whenever there is a nice secondary, the pressure of the smoke burnings off in the box is now seeping out of the hinge side of the door.  Guess it's back to the drawing board.  I originally replaced due to a leaky handle side corner.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2014)

hydes2004 said:


> Kinda of pissed.  I re did the gasket on my winter warm large.  Burned it all day yesterday without issue,  now I'm sitting here watching the Cowboys Eagles game and smell smoke.  I have the air cut all the way back,  whenever there is a nice secondary, the pressure of the smoke burnings off in the box is now seeping out of the hinge side of the door.  Guess it's back to the drawing board.  I originally replaced due to a leaky handle side corner.



Give it a bit more air. If it is back puffing that is.


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## hydes2004 (Dec 14, 2014)

Ya I started reading some threads on here and that's the general consensus.  Anything I can do to stop it?  I do not want this to be happening if I'm not in front of the stove.


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## Charles1981 (Dec 15, 2014)

How long have you been burning with the winter warm again?

A few possibilities. The back puffing occurs from a decrease in draft and an increase in combustible gas in the firebox. gas builds up and builds up, and then eventually enough oxygen is present and you have an explosion of the gas and smoke gets burped into the room.

Possibilities:
1) warm outside temperatures (I am more likely to get backpuffing when it is high 30's low 40's as the chimney draft is just not as strong)
2) wet wood resulting in lower chimney temperatures resulting in poor draft.
3) draft obstruction (creosote build up, blocked air intakes, some type of failure within the stove)
4) closing the stove down too quickly before a nice coal bed is formed or the wood is well caught tends to increase smoke production and stifle oxygen supply
5) closing the stove down too much. Sometimes if you close it down too much you just aren't giving enough oxygen. While it would be nice to always be able to run the stove closed 100% this just isn't realistic sometimes, especially if some of the above conditions are present.

If your gasket was leaky previously and now it is tighter it is possible you had more oxygen entering the box unregulated previously preventing snuffing the oxygen supply enough to enable backpuffing. So it is possible to fix one problem but create another. If this is actually going on however I don't know.

How to prevent this? Slowly close the stove down over 10-15 minutes when reloading. And don't let the flame go out. I always want to see a little bit of flame dancing in the firebox even if it goes out for a few seconds and then wooshes back in. If you see the flame in the box go out completely and for 10-15-20 seconds or more and then suddenly have an significant wood gas combustion thats when the smoke is belched out. So basically always ensuring there is visible flame in the box prevents this. 

I usually will close the stove all the way down over 15 minutes but then slightly open the air control from all the way closed until I can hear a gentle air rushing sound in the back of the stove because then I know an adequate amount of oxygen is entering and I always want to see a small flame somewhere in the firebox.

When it finally gets really cold 20 degrees and lower though the chance of my setup back-puffing is significantly lowered.


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## swimmerjaxon (Dec 31, 2014)

Figured I would check in. Last March I bought this used Defiant 1910 in very rough shape. Lots of overfires had led to the melting/deforming of the upper and lower firebacks, refractory, catalyst and the catalyst baffling as well. All was replaced and the stove resealed. Still has some leaks, but it runs very nicely once its warmed up. I would like to say thanks to everyone on the site who published photos of their defiant rebuilds, they were very very helpful.


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## Sons924 (Dec 31, 2014)

No horror stories with the one year old montpelier. I was alittle shocked with the heat output last night, couldn't get the temps up to my normal range. i think i need a new system to keep the wood dry. Two years seasoned oak  but i know it got wet with all the rain we've had. Tarps suck.


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## OK_Bill (Dec 31, 2014)

Talking about hot running VC stoves - my Encore2040 2n1 would run hotter than I liked, even after a detailed inspection and fix-up of a few minor air leaks.  I was seeing stove top over 650 with a full load of black oak - and this with the primary air turned full down.  In my opinion, the stove should be more controllable than that.  Simple observation:  the fire was getting too much O2. 

So I blocked off 1/2 of the unregulated secondary air ports that directly feed the fire.  There are 8 small holes across the bottom of the ceramic fireback, oriented horizontally.  I stuck #10 machine screws in 4 of those holes, thus restricting secondary air to the fire (these screws aren't threaded in - they just nicely fit the bore diameter of the holes).  

Result:  a MUCH cooler running stove, plus the glass tends to stay cleaner longer since more primary air now must be used to keep the combustion temps up.


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## john84 (Jan 11, 2015)

I have the same stove and also notice sometimes it isn't very controllable. I'm fairly new to stoves especially EPA stoves so this might be a stupid question.
The holes that you blocked are they pulling air into the stove from the 2 secondary air holes in the back of the stove? Or do they pull air out of the stove thru the CAT. Just trying to better understand how the stove works.

Thanks


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## Diabel (Jan 11, 2015)

Into the stove


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## OK_Bill (Jan 15, 2015)

john84 said:


> I have the same stove and also notice sometimes it isn't very controllable. I'm fairly new to stoves especially EPA stoves so this might be a stupid question.
> The holes that you blocked are they pulling air into the stove from the 2 secondary air holes in the back of the stove? Or do they pull air out of the stove thru the CAT. Just trying to better understand how the stove works.
> 
> Thanks




As Diabel alluded to, the holes I blocked are admitting air into the stove from the secondary air manifold.

A bit more explanation:

The 2040 Encore has two holes on the lower back side of the stove:   The lower rectangular hole is fitted with a controllable door and can be opened or closed as desired to admit air into the fire box thru the airwash manifold.  This opening is for PRIMARY combustion air, which gets sucked through the opening in the back (assuming the door isn't fully closed), then travels through left and right side air passages and up to the air wash manifold that sits directly above the glass door panels.  This Primary air then flows down over the glass, which helps to keep it clean, and is considered the "primary" air source to feed the fire.

But there's another hole in the back of the stove - also rectangular - and about the same size as the Primary air hole.  This other hole isn't equipped with any kind of door, its just there and stays "wide open".  This is the SECONDARY air inlet and it leads to what I'll call the "Secondary Air Manifold" which is simply a channel that routes this air supply to the CAT and to those holes I pictured in the post above.

Therefore, in the 2040 Encore, its this Secondary air feed that we cannot control.  It supplies the CAT with LOTS of fresh air (fed directly into the CAT combustion chamber so it can run HOT) but it also feeds fresh air through these 8 holes into the main air box of the stove.  Its variable only to the extent the chimney drafts air into the stove.  So now you see how the Encore has an ample supply of fresh O2 that has absolutely no control feeding the fire box.

I stuck the screws in there to reduce the secondary air feed via those little holes - which will of course reduce the total O2 that gains admittance into the fire box.  This is guaranteed to also directly affect the combustion temps of the fire: less O2 = less heat and a slower burn.

Hope this makes some sense.... try it out.  You may not need or want to restrict the air as much as I did (I live in Oklahoma so don't need the stove running so hot) but its a very cheap and very easy way to "trim" the O2 levels in the fire box to your liking.  From this "fixed" setting you can then throttle the fire using the Primary air control as you want.

Cheers....


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## Diabel (Jan 15, 2015)

Yup, I am to the point!
Thank you for the detailed explanation Bill.


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## Diabel (Jan 15, 2015)

I don't mean to high jack this thread....

Bill, you seem to be on top of these things,

No questions are stupid correct!!

Do different thermo couplers have different heat resistance?
Reason I ask, I purchased a flue probe on sale for 8.99
Pluged it into the cat probe hole on my VC and after a week it pretty much melted, charccoaled and burnt off. Is it because just that.... Meant for a flue only?


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## OK_Bill (Jan 16, 2015)

Diabel - No problem ... and questions are good things.

The thermocouple you ordered apparently wasn't designed for the high heat due to exposure to CAT combustion temps. 

Thermocouples work by generating very small voltages (micro volts) when heated.  They do not work on resistance. 

A "thermistor" works on resistance change w/temp change but cannot handle high heat. 

I think all you need is a higher heat range thermocouple.  And make sure it's the correct "type" such as Type-K. The "type" matters b/c it will determine the voltage range of the device. 

- Bill


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2015)

That is what I thought. I will just order a new one meant for higher temps
Thanks


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2015)

Will this work Bill?


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## OK_Bill (Jan 16, 2015)

Diabel - no, I don't think that will do.  

I found the exact same image you've posted on eBay

This is a K-type probe, but its only good up to 1250 Farenheit.  That's not a high enough heat range to withstand CAT combustion temps which can exceed 1700F.

Instead, you need to look for probes that can operate at temps of up to 2000F.  That will assure the probe can take a short overtemp of the CAT, and in normal operation won't burn up.

Take a look at this



This probe can handle up to 1250C (2282F) so its definitely not going to burn up or melt in your stove.  I've been using this probe for a few months now without issue.  The only complication is the thread boss is kinda large and it appears to be metric pipe thread.  I was going to screw it into a home made mount plate, but just stuck it through the CAT probe hole in the back of my stove and its been happily there ever since.  I use a couple small steel office clamps to hold things in place. 

What digital temp system do you have?


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2015)

Thanks 
I thought the one I showed was good up to 1250*C
I could be wrong
I still have to buy some sort of reader display
Any ideas!


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## OK_Bill (Jan 16, 2015)

The one you posted the picture link to didn't point to a specific page on the web - it seemed to only link to the image file itself.  So I wasn't able to exactly locate the TC you wanted to reference. Instead, I just google searched for that image and found copies of it all over the place.  I looked up one on eBay and found it was deficient in terms of max temp.  But ... 1250C is great and if thats really the spec on it, then it would be just fine.

For more:

Check this thread out...


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## redman (Jan 16, 2015)

First timer here, first woodstove in September and no regrets.  Oil prices declining but I don't care.  There's a lot of pages to read here and I've seen some very relevant to my heating needs right now.  Can anyone on the island point me in the direction of decent firewood?  I ordered 3 cords in September and am down to about 3/4 cord.  I believe I've wasted a lot  of wood learning how to do this but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it, keeping house up to 75 during single digits a few weeks ago.

On another note, I've run into my first neighbor complaint and I don't feel good about it.  The smoke during startup can be pretty bad especially when wind blows towards my neighbors.  Once cat kicks in, I'm golden but that could be 45 minutes in.  I have a 16 ft galvanized metal chimney that goes straight up through cathedral ceiling.  It was installed according to manual but when I look around, all my neighbors' chimneys (I presume with original chimneys for fireplaces) are a lot higher than mine and I'm wondering IF extending pipe a few feet would really make a big difference?  I'd appreciate any feedback.  Looking forward to hearing from some of the veterans here.  Thanks


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## Charles1981 (Jan 16, 2015)

You are going to have a hard time with your neighbors if you are getting  complaints during reloading. There aren't too many ways around smoke with the bypass open....and considering what could be... (my neighbors have owbs and those things smoke until they are coaling).


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## OK_Bill (Jan 16, 2015)

If the stove is reloaded with a hotter coal bed, I've found it shortens the time in bypass before going back to CAT mode.  Also, I've read the quality of the wood matters tremendously.  

As an example, burning mostly black oak, if I reload with stove top at 300F I can usually get the CAT back up in 15 min or so.  It will then climb through 600F (CAT temp) pretty quickly, and no smoke.  However, if I reload cooler than that, say around 200F the freshly loaded wood takes much longer to get heated / charred sufficiently for a good CAT engagement.   [ these are stove top temps, not griddle temps I'm referencing ]

But, there's no way around smoking when in bypass that I know of.  I'm new to this also, so others with more experience may corroborate these observations, or may offer alternate tips to improve performance.

Good luck.


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## redman (Jan 17, 2015)

Thanks guys, I may also extend pipe about 10 feet to help with this.  About to go and find out the cost.


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## Buck8one2 (Jan 19, 2015)

OK_Bill said:


> Talking about hot running VC stoves - my Encore2040 2n1 would run hotter than I liked, even after a detailed inspection and fix-up of a few minor air leaks.  I was seeing stove top over 650 with a full load of black oak - and this with the primary air turned full down.  In my opinion, the stove should be more controllable than that.  Simple observation:  the fire was getting too much O2.
> 
> So I blocked off 1/2 of the unregulated secondary air ports that directly feed the fire.  There are 8 small holes across the bottom of the ceramic fireback, oriented horizontally.  I stuck #10 machine screws in 4 of those holes, thus restricting secondary air to the fire (these screws aren't threaded in - they just nicely fit the bore diameter of the holes).
> 
> Result:  a MUCH cooler running stove, plus the glass tends to stay cleaner longer since more primary air now must be used to keep the combustion temps up.


 Hello Folks

I have been burning an original VC Intrepid for 25 years and recently moved to a new home and purchased an Encore 2020 Flexburn 2n1 built in mid 2013 and installed in Sept 2013.  The Intrepid non-cat burned perfect, no issues and no complants.  This new Encore was a different story and had the same issue with overburning and uncontrolable air flow.  The fix you discribe worked perfect and now it burns more like I am used to.  I now can control the fire with the thermo control lever on the right side in open vent and in cat mode.  The only difference with my fix is block the 2 larger holes on the ends (SS1/4-20x1  screws worked here) and the 2 center holes (SS 10-24x1 screws).  Thanks for explaining the issue and coming up with very simple and inexpensive fix.  Now I am very happy with the Encore.


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## redman (Jan 19, 2015)

OK_Bill said:


> Talking about hot running VC stoves - my Encore2040 2n1 would run hotter than I liked, even after a detailed inspection and fix-up of a few minor air leaks.  I was seeing stove top over 650 with a full load of black oak - and this with the primary air turned full down.  In my opinion, the stove should be more controllable than that.  Simple observation:  the fire was getting too much O2.
> 
> So I blocked off 1/2 of the unregulated secondary air ports that directly feed the fire.  There are 8 small holes across the bottom of the ceramic fireback, oriented horizontally.  I stuck #10 machine screws in 4 of those holes, thus restricting secondary air to the fire (these screws aren't threaded in - they just nicely fit the bore diameter of the holes).
> 
> Result:  a MUCH cooler running stove, plus the glass tends to stay cleaner longer since more primary air now must be used to keep the combustion temps up.


Just curious OK...How does this effect CAT light off if at all?


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## OK_Bill (Jan 19, 2015)

Redman,  the restricted secondary air does reduce total O2 that gets admitted into the firebox:  it restricts O2 that comes out of the holes referenced in the picture I posted.  The reduction in O2 does affect CAT operation - it lowers temps and slows down CAT temp rise after the bypass damper is closed (what we call "light-off").  The CAT light-off it still fast enough, though.  If the O2 was restricted too much, the CAT would stall and not heat up enough to work.  I've found I need CAT temps of 700F or more to get a completely clean burn as observed by the presence of chimney smoke (or not).  Hope this answers your question.


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## OK_Bill (Jan 19, 2015)

Buck8one2 said:


> Hello Folks
> 
> I have been burning an original VC Intrepid for 25 years and recently moved to a new home and purchased an Encore 2020 Flexburn 2n1 built in mid 2013 and installed in Sept 2013.  The Intrepid non-cat burned perfect, no issues and no complants.  This new Encore was a different story and had the same issue with overburning and uncontrolable air flow.  The fix you discribe worked perfect and now it burns more like I am used to.  I now can control the fire with the thermo control lever on the right side in open vent and in cat mode.  The only difference with my fix is block the 2 larger holes on the ends (SS1/4-20x1  screws worked here) and the 2 center holes (SS 10-24x1 screws).  Thanks for explaining the issue and coming up with very simple and inexpensive fix.  Now I am very happy with the Encore.



Wow!  25 years - now that's some experience!!

I thought about blocking those larger holes, so its good to hear how your mod worked out.  I found a few minor sources of air leaks with my stove (a 2040 in Bordeaux red) and after taking care of those I still found it running too hot.

Really glad to hear your Encore is running like it should.  

Best,
Bill


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## john84 (Jan 19, 2015)

I also have a 2040, I am curious where did you find air leaks?


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## OK_Bill (Jan 20, 2015)

john84 said:


> I also have a 2040, I am curious where did you find air leaks?



I wrote about the air leaks earlier in the thread, but to sum it up there were three leaks I found:   First, there was a problem with the primary air control door not fully closing; then I found the ash pan door latch was out of adjustment - and the damper manifold seal was misplaced.

Even after fixing all 3 of these, the stove ran hot, like around 650F stove top even with the primary air fully closed.  I'm burning black oak here in Oklahoma.  So that was the incentive for the air restriction mod I posted earlier.

edit:  one other leak:  the door glass panes were loose enough for me to be able to move them around with finger pressure.  Although I couldn't find them actually leaking, I did effectively tighten the panes up by slightly bending the retainer tabs inward so they'd press the glass more tightly against the woven seal material.  This may or may not have helped but it made me feel good.


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## trispad (Jan 27, 2015)

OK_Bill said:


> .... This probe can handle up to 1250C (2282F) so its definitely not going to burn up or melt in your stove. I've been using this probe for a few months now without issue. The only complication is the thread boss is kinda large and it appears to be metric pipe thread. I was going to screw it into a home made mount plate, but just stuck it through the CAT probe hole in the back of my stove and its been happily there ever since. I use a couple small steel office clamps to hold things in place. ....



OK_Bill,

How did you actually use the small steel office clamps to hold it in place? Did you just attach them to the probe's wire to keep it from moving, or did you actually clamp the probe inside the stove? I have a Defiant 1975 and am trying to get it dialed in and your posts have been most helpful.

Thanks,

Tristan


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## OK_Bill (Jan 27, 2015)

trispad said:


> OK_Bill,
> 
> How did you actually use the small steel office clamps to hold it in place? Did you just attach them to the probe's wire to keep it from moving, or did you actually clamp the probe inside the stove? I have a Defiant 1975 and am trying to get it dialed in and your posts have been most helpful.
> 
> ...



Its actually simpler than it sounds ... the thermocouple I used had quite a bit more length in its wire leads than I needed, so I just grabbed three of those little steel office clamps we all use to help gather the extra wire up and stash it on the back side of the stove:






So, you can see here the braided wire lead clipped to the stove's heat shield.  What you _don't _see in the pic is that there's a whole doubled up loop of that braided wire lead underneath the bottom heat shield of the stove.  I liked the steel clamps because, of course, they can put up with all the heat plus they're mostly black in color so they don't look awful in their place.

Hope this makes sense out of my previous post - I was just too lazy to post a pic! 

Cheers.... and stay warm


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Jan 27, 2015)

I love my VC, it keeps me warm......


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## trispad (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks for the info OK_Bill.


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## Buck8one2 (Jan 28, 2015)

OK_Bill said:


> Its actually simpler than it sounds ... the thermocouple I used had quite a bit more length in its wire leads than I needed, so I just grabbed three of those little steel office clamps we all use to help gather the extra wire up and stash it on the back side of the stove:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





OK_Bill said:


> Its actually simpler than it sounds ... the thermocouple I used had quite a bit more length in its wire leads than I needed, so I just grabbed three of those little steel office clamps we all use to help gather the extra wire up and stash it on the back side of the stove:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Humm, interesting.  OK_Bill how did you attach the probe to the stove?  I'm having trouble finding a probe to mount to the cast iron back.  Can you just use a straight probe and while in the proper position, use stove cement to hold in place?   I'm a bit concerned bout the probe getting pulled out and/or otherwise damaging the refractory.


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## Buck8one2 (Jan 28, 2015)

OK_Bill said:


> Wow!  25 years - now that's some experience!!
> 
> I thought about blocking those larger holes, so its good to hear how your mod worked out.  I found a few minor sources of air leaks with my stove (a 2040 in Bordeaux red) and after taking care of those I still found it running too hot.
> 
> ...


 

Update:  I've had a chance to tune the stove to my liking.  First let me provide some backround.  My wife and I are retired and have my motherinlaw living with us here in North Georgia.  While down south it doesn't get that cold, but up here in the mountains it will get below freezing and windy which can make it a bit raw for our bones.  The Encore is in a large family room, kitchen and eating area which I would guess is about 1000-1100 SF with door openings and upper open areas along one wall for warm air to semi drift to other areas of the house.  Fuel is dry very good Hickory. The chimney runs upward about 3' and makes a 90deg. in double wall to the wall then transitions to a full insulated SS T then up and out in full insulated SS pipe.  Total length of about 12'-15' of 8" pipe.  I have concluded that running this stove in Cat mode is just too hot for my application and setup, closing up 4 of the airholes in the refractory slowed down the burn a bit but even with primary air closed it still ran too hot for the room at 550* and rapidly climbing.  So my current setup is with 4 of the holes plugged and Cat removed (Non-Cat mode).  I can now burn fireplace style with doors open with spark screen (burns great).  Also doors closed,  damper open or closed and I am still able to control the burn slow enough with primary air to keep from burning us out of the family room.  For the last 2 nights I had loaded it up with 3-4 good size splits and about 4" coals under them closed it up and shut the primary air down to about half way and it burned all night at 350* to 400* and had hot coals left to fire it off again in the morning.  I'm a happy camper. I may try going Cat mode again when I can purchase the Auber AT100 and proper probe for the Encore.


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## Blackjack Dan (Jan 28, 2015)

Hi all: I have a hand-me-down stove a Encore 2550 I inherited it from my father, it's had intermittent use for  the last 10 years at my hunting cabin love the looks and I know it needs gaskets (seems to burn fast and hot with the air and bypass closed) I  want to do a thorough cleaning and check it out, what are some things I need to do and look for with this stove?

Also is the stove considered medium or large?

I'm assuming this is a cat stove I have never taken it apart or cleaned it just used it?

Any help and suggestions will be appreciated.


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## OK_Bill (Jan 28, 2015)

Buck8one2 said:


> OK_Bill how did you attach the probe to the stove?  I'm having trouble finding a probe to mount to the cast iron back.  Can you just use a straight probe and while in the proper position, use stove cement to hold in place?   I'm a bit concerned bout the probe getting pulled out and/or otherwise damaging the refractory.



I simply popped out a small snap-in circular plug that was factory installed in the back of the stove.  That gave me the opening needed to push the TC probe straight into the CAT chamber.  In doing this, I did push the probe through a thin layer of fiberglass insulation, which took very little pressure.  I'd recommend that you take the CAT element out of the stove when inserting the probe for the first time; that way you can see the probe push through the insulation layer and into the CAT chamber.

For my probe, its just stuck in there without any hard mounting or threaded support.  I was at first hesitant to accept this situation, but its been just fine over the last few months.

If you want to see which probe I used, take a look at post #63 in this thread where I spoke more about it along with a few pictures.

Best,
Bill.


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