# My Kent Tile Fire Stove declared illegal in Oregon



## alanash (Oct 6, 2010)

So now that I have a Kent Tile Fire Stove, I've been told that it is illegal to install it in my home.

So.......... I am going to install it anyways.

I am replacing a Franklin stove that has an 8" pipe.  The Kent stove has a 6" pipe.   I know I have to get a reducer to connect the 
6" to the 8" pipe going up through the ceiling.

It was also suggested that I put 6" pipe down from the roof into the 8" pipe coming up through the roof to help maintain proper draft.

How does that sound to you all?

Thanks for your input.

Alan


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## albertj03 (Oct 6, 2010)

Why is it against the law? Does the stove emit an excessive amount of pollution?


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## BrotherBart (Oct 6, 2010)

Which Tile Fire model is it? Some of them are EPA certified.


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## alanash (Oct 6, 2010)

I was told that since it doesn't have that EPA sticker on the back that it can't be legally installed in my home.  The list of certified EPA stoves shows the pic of what this sticker looks like.  Plus it's older than 1990 so it sounds like it is just plain excluded from consideration.

But there are several Kent stoves on the list, but I am unable to tell which one I've got.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 6, 2010)

alanash said:
			
		

> I was told that since it doesn't have that EPA sticker on the back that it can't be legally installed in my home.  The list of certified EPA stoves shows the pic of what this sticker looks like.  Plus it's older than 1990 so it sounds like it is just plain excluded from consideration.
> 
> But there are several Kent stoves on the list, but I am unable to tell which one I've got.



The law doesn't require the sticker on the stove, just that you can identify the model and that the model is on the EPA list. You are headed for around a thousand dollar fine if you just go ahead and install it. That would buy a bunch of electric or gas heat.


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## Shipper50 (Oct 6, 2010)

I bought my Kent tile in 88 and as far as I know its  still in my old house. But I heard that Kent tile were not being allowed into the country and that was 10 years ago? Is your stove new from a dealer? 

Shipper


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## alanash (Oct 6, 2010)

I just recently bought it used.  Perhaps not a wise move now in the aftermath of all of this negative info I'm receiving about it.

This is really a bummer, because these stoves work and heat sooooooooooo well.  It's quite upsetting I've wasted time and money on this.

REally p@@@@@sses me off!

But thanks for all the info.


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## clr8ter (Oct 6, 2010)

Who exactly is going to come see it & fine you if you install it? I'd install it, too.....


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## thechimneysweep (Oct 6, 2010)

> The law doesn’t require the sticker on the stove, just that you can identify the model and that the model is on the EPA list.



BB, I'm not sure if I'm interpreting you correctly, but identifying the model (or more importantly the version of the model), is what the "sticker" is all about.  There were many, many stove models that didn't undergo any cosmetic or name changes when they were reworked to meet EPA requirements.  For example, I can think of several models that met the Oregon State emissions standard, and just required some minor internal tweaking to meet the more stringent EPA specs.  In many cases, especially when the manufacturer is no longer in business, the only way you can determine whether a particular stove meets EPA requirements is by the EPA logo on the permanent listing label.

At any rate, I can tell you (and the OP) that every Kent Tile Fire that met US EPA emissions requirements that ever came through our store bore a listing label that said so.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 7, 2010)

I was just referring to the stuff on the Oregon DEQ site that said it had to be labeled as compliant OR be on the EPA list.

As always, I defer to to the smokey looking little guy with the brush in his hand.  You do this stuff for a living. I just hang out on a website.


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## agartner (Oct 7, 2010)

There are several Kent models on the list.  I'm a Sherwood owner, which is basically the poor man's version of the tile fire.  What's listed on the certified list are the "L.E.M" models, which according to this article (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Kent_Tile_Fire/) were introduced sometime in the "mid to late 80's".  

What kills me here is that the Kent stoves are a long, long way from the "smoke dragons" that the Oregon law is trying to control.  The basic design of the Kent's were damn good.  That being said, you still may be screwed based on a technicality.  Maybe.

This site (http://pasurvivalprods.tripod.com/kent.html) provides the dimensions of the Kent stoves.  The "Standard" model looks to be 27.5 inches deep, while the "LEM" model measures 28.25 inches deep, based on the aforementioned resource.  The site also claims that the LEM also apparently has no bypass damper either, so that's probably a better clue than tying to measure a 3/4 inch difference.  I'm going to defer to Tom on this one as he used to sell them.  Do you remember whether or not those EPA labeled stoves had that bypass damper?


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## burleymike (Oct 7, 2010)

Ok so you have an existing smoke dragon and you want to replace it with a newer stove that is not EPA certified yet not a smoke dragon.  As long as you don't get a permit nobody will ever know.  If it ever became a problem you could claim it was already there perhaps a previous owner swapped the Franklin stove for the Kent.  The only way it could ever become a problem is if your house were to burn down and that is a stretch at that.  I would install it and not worry about it, you could buy a new epa stove and do like my mother in law and as soon as the fire starts choke it down and let it smoke like a smoke dragon and that would be a lot worse than the Kent.


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 7, 2010)

if the stove no longer has an epa cert tag (which also identifies it as "UL approved") even if the unit was factory built and tested the unit cannot be installed as a "listed" heater. So the reason this stove cannot be installed is it is an "unlisted" stove due to the tag being missing. this means the only way it could be installed is following the "unlisted" guidelines in the NFPA211 and then only in areas where local code still allows non certified units to be installed.  in orewgon i doubt this will be the case so unfortunately our OP is pretty much out of luck as far as being able to install the kent tile stove he has.

i hate to be the bearer of bad news but im afraid bad news it is


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## rowerwet (Oct 8, 2010)

there has got to be someone out there that would buy your stove from a free state.


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## Todd (Oct 8, 2010)

rowerwet said:
			
		

> there has got to be someone out there that would buy your stove from a free state.



Are there any free states out on the left coast?


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## bogydave (Oct 8, 2010)

Todd said:
			
		

> rowerwet said:
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> 
> ...



ALASKA
Some folks here still make & use homemade barrel stoves & use dog teams for transportation (no roads)


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## agartner (Oct 8, 2010)

If I weren't in the complete opposite corner of the country, I'd consider it.  A nice TileFire would look great in my upstairs living room.

Oh well.


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## turbotech (Feb 9, 2011)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> if the stove no longer has an epa cert tag (which also identifies it as "UL approved") even if the unit was factory built and tested the unit cannot be installed as a "listed" heater. So the reason this stove cannot be installed is it is an "unlisted" stove due to the tag being missing. this means the only way it could be installed is following the "unlisted" guidelines in the NFPA211 and then only in areas where local code still allows non certified units to be installed.  in orewgon i doubt this will be the case so unfortunately our OP is pretty much out of luck as far as being able to install the kent tile stove he has.
> 
> i hate to be the bearer of bad news but im afraid bad news it is



There is not way of having a stove re-certified by a distributor/vendor?


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## alanash (Feb 9, 2011)

The stove has the UL label on it.  Just no model number or name.  In any case, it's installed, works great, heats my home, is efficient, on and on and on.

Great stove.

Thanks for all the input.

Alan


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## DonNC (Feb 9, 2011)

One risk you run if u use the 8" with a 6" stove is that the flu gases will cool faster before exiting the chimney and cause faster creosote build up.


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## alanash (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes I put in a 6" pipe from the stove to the ceiling.  There, an expander attaches it to the 8" pipe which then passes through my attic space, then through the roof.  A few people mentioned that going from 6" to 8" might cause condensing of creosote in the 8" pipe since the flow of gases would slow down once inside the 8" pipe.  Seems to be OK, after 7+ months of continuous use I've cleaned the pipe once with the wire chimney sweep and there doesn't seem to be an inordinate amount of creosote that built up, though I have nothing to compare what I saw and collected after sweeping the stove pipe.


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## wkpoor (Feb 9, 2011)

So what do they have, stove police out there. That knock on your door demanding to see your stove and if it doesn't pass inspection they fine you or throw you in jail. And whats all this burn ban stuff I hear about? How the heck do they inforce that?


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## alanash (Feb 10, 2011)

Rules and regs... a lot out here, but as you said, how do they enforce it?  Probably have to be reported by a neighbor or something like that.  As for checking on stoves, no stove police have I seen.  When I got the stove and hunted around for someone to help me install it, the local chimney guy said the stove was illegal and that he'd get in big trouble for installing an illegal stove.  I've seen lots of stoves smoking to beat f@#@!!, lots more than mine, but I've seen no one "checking" people's stoves.  So I found a guy, out of work who knew about stoves... he helped me install it.  Paid him and tipped him.  Everyone's happy.  As for the burn ban, probably have to have a neighbor report you to get in trouble.


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## phatfarmerbob (Feb 10, 2011)

bogydave said:
			
		

> Todd said:
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im only 60 miles from NYC and i use a barrel stove to warm our potatoe storage barn,,, but only 1-3 fires a week if its really cold


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## Lukas060606 (Feb 10, 2011)

So what is up with all these regulations?  I'm confused.  I'm in CT and as far as I know wood burning is an environmentally friendly activity.  Why so much flak where you are?  Is it because there are more wood burners there?  I'll admit that if everyone on my street burned like the one neighbor with the smoker, I'd want laws/ordinances too.  Is that the simple answer?


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## rowerwet (Feb 14, 2011)

the new "greenbeans" are all convinced that wood burning is horrible and will cause them and anyone who catches a sniff of smoke to die of horrible diseases and all their unborn children to have asthma and birth defects...
I wonder how civilization survived for centuries until we discovered how to make electricity and heat our homes with it....


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## madrone (Feb 14, 2011)

Lots of woodburners here and temperature inversions are common. It can be a real problem. There are a number of people in my neighborhood who consistently blanket steamy smoke all over the block. It gets bad. Old stoves are bad enough, but people tend to burn greener wood in them to boot. This is not knee-jerk environmentalism, it's addressing a real problem. 

That said, installing a Kent is, in my mind, following the spirit, (if not the letter,) of the law. Burn on.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Feb 14, 2011)

alanash said:
			
		

> So now that I have a Kent Tile Fire Stove, I've been told that it is illegal to install it in my home.
> 
> So.......... I am going to install it anyways.
> 
> ...


 I'm telling gw bush. Install it, if they break in to inspect, well, you need kindling anyways, Randy


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