# Sharpening A Full Chisle Chain



## Ralphie Boy (Dec 2, 2012)

I’m of the understanding that a full chisel chain requires a different type of file and is sharpened differently than a other types of chains. Is this correct And how about a semi-chisle chain


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## JustWood (Dec 2, 2012)

No
No
and
No
Same round file.  Different size chains require different size files though.


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## Ralphie Boy (Dec 2, 2012)

That's what I thought; but somewhere out there I watched something that showed using a couple of different type of file shapes as well a a flat file for the rakers. If I can find it again I'll post the link.


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## JustWood (Dec 2, 2012)

You probably saw a "square" file . Those can be used on chisel chain also. The technique for that file is a little harder to master IMHO.


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## TreePointer (Dec 2, 2012)

I know of some *file guides* (Carlton File-O-Plate) that are different for semi- vs. full-chisel cutters, but the round file is the same for a given pitch, as LEE mentioned.


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## HDRock (Dec 2, 2012)

Maybe you saw a square tooth , square grind ,chain being sharpened,
see, http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_teeth_types.htm


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## bogydave (Dec 3, 2012)

Ralphie Boy said:


> I’m of the understanding that a full chisel chain requires a different type of file and is sharpened differently than a other types of chains. Is this correct And how about a semi-chisle chain


 


LEES WOOD-CO said:


> No
> No
> and
> No
> Same round file. Different size chains require different size files though.


 

+1


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## StihlHead (Dec 3, 2012)

Full chisel can be filed round or square. As stated above, square filing is a lot harder to do, and it also dulls a LOT faster.

Basic rule of thumb:

square filed full chisel chains are 10% faster than...
round filed full chisel chains, which are 10% faster than...
round filed semi-chisel chains.

Generally you want to run full chisel chins in clean wood, as they will dull faster than semi chisel chain (which, while they cut slower, also dull slower, especially in crud). Square filed full chisel chain has really thin points where the chain chisels into the wood. Round filing these chains makes the chisel points stronger and more durable.

Similar issue with chain grinding angles; bigger angles are sharper and cut faster, but they also dull faster.


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## HDRock (Dec 3, 2012)

Are a  semi chisel chain, and a safety/low pro chain two different things ??


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## MasterMech (Dec 3, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Are a semi chisel chain, and a safety/low pro chain two different things ??


Yessir.

There be green label semi chisel chains, green label full chisel chains, green label low-profile semi chisel chain, green label low-profile full chisel chain, yellow labels of all the above as well. 

FWIW: Most green-label chain is of the semi-chisel type.  Stihl's RSC3 being the most common exception.


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## HDRock (Dec 3, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Yessir.
> 
> There be green label semi chisel chains, green label full chisel chains, green label low-profile semi chisel chain, green label low-profile full chisel chain, yellow labels of all the above as well.
> 
> FWIW: Most green-label chain is of the semi-chisel type. Stihl's RSC3 being the most common exception.


 
OK , I'm a little more clear now


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## HDRock (Dec 3, 2012)

Full chisel=square tooth, semi chisel round, low pro has extra rakers/depth stop, right ?????


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## MasterMech (Dec 3, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Full chisel=square tooth, semi chisel round, low pro has extra rakers/depth stop, right ?????


Low-pro doesn't necessary have anti-kickback stuff on it. Low-Pro is chain that is designed to run on smaller saws. It shares the same number of drive links per given length that regular 3/8" chain has but that's about it.

We refer to the chain with all the "extra" junk on it as "green-label" or "safety" chain.


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## HDRock (Dec 3, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Low-pro doesn't necessary have anti-kickback stuff on it. Low-Pro is chain that is designed to run on smaller saws. It shares the same number of drive links per given length that regular 3/8" chain has but that's about it.
> 
> We refer to the chain with all the "extra" junk on it as "gree-label" or "safety" chain.


 

Found this thread also  Dumb question about chainsaw chains.  I think I got It now


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## StihlHead (Dec 3, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Are a semi chisel chain, and a safety/low pro chain two different things ??


 
Actually they are three different things: semi-chisel, safety, and low profile (AKA, Picco) are all different aspects of chain that may or may not be found on a loop. Safety chains have less kickback, and hence less grab in the wood. As a result, they do not cut as well or as fast as non-safety chains do. Safety chains may or may not have the high raker guard links between the cutter links. The design of the cutters and rakers alone may make a chain a safety type, and it may be full or semi-chisel, and it may be low profile, standard 3/8, or .325 chain.

To show the safety type on Stihl chains, there are either green and yellow colored master links on a chain. Green is safety, yellow is non safety. There are similar colored marks on the base of any new Stihl bar as well, with either yellow or green colored spots. Generally wider nose bars (with larger nose sprockets) are more apt to grab more wood, so they have more kickback and are yellow, or non-safety bars. Smaller nose bars have less grab at the tip and are prone to less kickback, so thy are considered safety bars and have green marks.

Clear as mud?


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## Boog (Dec 3, 2012)

Every day it becomes oh so much clearer!


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## MasterMech (Dec 3, 2012)

Boog Powell said:


> Every day it becomes oh so much clearer!


 
Until your mind becomes a sea of part #'s, chain types, sharpening methods, operating technique, safety protocol, troubleshooting tricks, and doh! moments.  Then you seek some poor unsuspecting internet community to unleash the whole mess upon.


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## Boog (Dec 3, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Until your mind becomes a sea of part #'s, chain types, sharpening methods, operating technique, safety protocol, troubleshooting tricks, and doh! moments. Then you seek some poor unsuspecting internet community to unleash the whole mess upon.


 
Yeah, but we love you for it, you can always come home after a long day on the job to us, we're here waiting for you.  Well, I suppose you have to spend some time with that pretty wife and kid!  But not too much now, don't loose sight of your priority  !


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Until your mind becomes a sea of part #'s, chain types, sharpening methods, operating technique, safety protocol, troubleshooting tricks, and doh! moments.


 That's exactly whats happening to mind, and-
-  Today I go get a couple of 7/32 files, thinking I am going to use these files in the guide that came with the 5/32 kit I bought but, as I"m touching up a chain with the guide and a 5/32 file,   I see it says right on the guide 5/32, so IDK
The guide I have is Oregon File Guide and 5/32 in. File
Do I need a different guide for the 7/32 files


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Do I need a different guide for the 7/32 files


 
Yes.  There is a different file guide for each pitch.


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> Yes. There is a different file guide for each pitch.


OK, Thanks
 the depth gauge for the rakers is the same though , correct ??


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## StihlHead (Dec 4, 2012)

There are many types of Oregon file guides out there. The guide type dictates what files can be used in them. The kind I use is an Oregon Pro file guide. They are a bar mount file guide and they take any size file and will sharpen chain to any angle or offset. Here is what they look like:




I also have a mini electric grinder stone type with 5/32 and 7/32 stones for touching up a chain between file sharpening. They look like this, and there are 12V DC battery types and plug in 110V AC electric types:



Then there are the mini dedicated file guides that I do not use myself, that only take one file size. They look like this:




Then there is the Oregon raker file guide for using with a small flat file that looks like this:


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## StihlHead (Dec 4, 2012)

For Stihl 3/8 std chain, I use three files: I start with 7/32 when the chains are new, then use a 13/64 when they are 2/3 used, then I use 3/16 when they are toward the end of use. The cutters on Stihl chains are tapered in height and I learned this filing trick from a Stihl/Husky saw shop owner who was a logger for many years.

Oh yah, and here is a graphic showing cutters and sharpening style for semi and full chisel chain, the first two are round filed semi and full chisel, the last is square filed full chisel:


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> There are many types of Oregon file guides out there. The guide type dictates what files can be used in them. The kind I use is an Oregon Pro file guide. They are a bar mount file guide and they take any size file and will sharpen chain to any angle or offset. Here is what they look like:
> 
> View attachment 83699
> 
> ...


 
The last 2 pics are what I have for the low pro chains,W 5/32 files , but now I need 7/32 file guide, like that for a full chisel chain


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

Looking at these two chains 72LGX072G and 72LPX072G , here http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/lookups/selguide.aspx?BusId=OCS&SellReg=USA&LangId=ENG
In the detail I cant really tell if the teeth are round or square, and it doesn't say if they are full or semi chisel.
Husky ,61,   20"chain, 3/8, .050, pro Only


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## StihlHead (Dec 4, 2012)

Oregon LGX is semi-chisel. Oregon LP and LPX are full chisel.

Correction: That was the Vodka talking. They are all full chisel.


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

??? I thought LGX was full-chisel.

http://www.amickssuperstore.com/Oregon_72LGX072G_Chain_p/oregon 72lgx072g.htm

Oregon 3/8 (.375) pitch models offered at Baileys: http://www.baileysonline.com/category.asp?catID=11748


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## MasterMech (Dec 4, 2012)

Easiest thing to do is walk into a Stihl/Husky dealer and buy one (relatively inexpensive) sharpening kit for each pitch of chain you work with.


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Easiest thing to do is walk into a Stihl/Husky dealer and buy one (relatively inexpensive) sharpening kit for each pitch of chain you work with.


 
+1

 That's what I use most of the time.
One of each in my saw bag: 3/8, .325, and 3/8LP.

(I want a saw that can justify .404 )


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

OK found this​​*Selecting Professional Saw Chain*​ 
*IMPORTANT INFORMATION - WARNING*​ 
All saw chain listed below is very aggressive and has a high kickback rating. This chain should only be used by experienced chain saw professionals with knowledge, experience, and specialized training for dealing with kickback. None of it is ANSI approved on saws less than 3.8 cubic inches (62cc).
​ 
Chains and bars designed to minimize kickback potential are available. These meet the ANSI standard and should be used on saws with motors less than 3.8 cubic inches (62cc) or on any saw that is consumer directed (non-professional use). Please call for more information.
On the chart below, the columns listing best motor size and best bar length are suggestions only. Certain applications and uses may call for another size or type. Please call if you have any questions. Professional saw chain is our business. We can help.
​​


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

That looks like an old chart. No LGX in it.

 You're making this too complicated.  If you want full-chisel chain for a 3/8 pitch saw, just get Oregon LGX or Stihl RS (formerly RSC). Match pitch, gauge, and number of drive links for your bar. Done.

I've used different makes of saw chain over the years, but I've pretty much moved to Stihl RS (RSC). Yes, I use Stihl chain on all brands of saw, even Husqvarna (gasp!).

If you're still unsure, then get to your Stihl or Husqvarna dealer.  Take your saw or just your bar with you.  You may even get a better deal than online.  Like buy one, get one half price.  Or buy two and get the third free.


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## MasterMech (Dec 4, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> Stihl RS (formerly RSC)


 
Vice versa (RSC is current AFAIK)


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Vice versa (RSC is current AFAIK)


 
It changed AGAIN this past year. They dropped the "C" from their chain models and are back to RS, RM, etc. 

Have a look: http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/saw-chains/


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## MasterMech (Dec 4, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> It changed AGAIN this past year. They dropped the "C" from their chain models and are back to RS, RM, etc.
> 
> Have a look: http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/saw-chains/


 
Yeesh.


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## Thistle (Dec 4, 2012)

StihlHead said:


> Oregon LGX is semi-chisel. Oregon LP and LPX are full chisel.


 

Nope. LGX is full chisel. I have 5 new in the box,2 on the saws right now.


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## Jags (Dec 4, 2012)

Yep, no more RSC only RS.  Got confuddled the last time I bought a loop.  I insisted that I wanted the RSC.


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## smokinj (Dec 4, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Easiest thing to do is walk into a Stihl/Husky dealer and buy one (relatively inexpensive) sharpening kit for each pitch of chain you work with.


This is exactly what I use. Pretty simple to use.


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## StihlHead (Dec 4, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> ??? I thought LGX was full-chisel.
> 
> http://www.amickssuperstore.com/Oregon_72LGX072G_Chain_p/oregon 72lgx072g.htm
> 
> Oregon 3/8 (.375) pitch models offered at Baileys: http://www.baileysonline.com/category.asp?catID=11748


 


Thistle said:


> Nope. LGX is full chisel. I have 5 new in the box,2 on the saws right now.


 
Yes, correction made above. I do not use much Oregon chain. Soft cutters in my experience. I use mainly Carlton and Stihl.


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## bogydave (Dec 4, 2012)

Any one notice a difference between the Oregon files size 7/32" & the stihl 13/64".

OK to use the 7/32 on   (3/8 X.050) Stihl RS & Oregon LGX ?
Or is there that much (noticeable)  of a difference using 1/64 smaller diameter on the Stihl chain?


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## Jags (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't think there would be much difference as long as you stayed with one size. The smaller file will give more "hook" to the cutter edge. (which will probably dull a bit faster, but may (MAY) cut slightly faster.)


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## StihlHead (Dec 4, 2012)

bogydave said:


> Any one notice a difference between the Oregon files size 7/32" & the stihl 13/64".
> 
> OK to use the 7/32 on (3/8 X.050) Stihl RS & Oregon LGX ?
> Or is there that much (noticeable) of a difference using 1/64 smaller diameter on the Stihl chain?


 
Not really that much of a difference. You get a slightly larger angle at the top of the cutters using 7/32 files but I cannot say that I have noticed any big difference (I have used them both). The odd size Stihl files threw me for a while, but they are trying to average out the taper in the cutters for the life of the loop. A Stihl dealer showed me his trick some years ago to start with a 7/32 file when a Stihl loop is new, and then change over to a 3/16 file when they are half gone. They are a lot easier to find than 13/64 files, and I think that the angles they produce in the cutters are actually better that way. I added filing with 13/64 in the center of the cutter life as I have boxes of files that a guy that I ship saws to overseas sent me a few years ago. I may as well use them...


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## HDRock (Dec 4, 2012)

Do you vets use a semi chisel chain for wood that's already on the ground , or just sharpen full chisel more often ?


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## TreePointer (Dec 4, 2012)

As a rule, I use full chisel for everything. On the ground is not a problem, but dragged/skidded logs with dirt & mud on them are another story. Even so, I rarely switch to semi-chisel these days. I take at least 4 sharp chains with me into the woods if I'm cutting all day.  I also take a stump vise and filing kit with me, too.

I mostly cut standing trees, treetops from timber harvests, and blowdowns. These aren't very dirty around here. In other places where the wind kicks up dirt, dust, and sand that gets trapped in the bark, I'd probably use semi-chisel more often.


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## Thistle (Dec 4, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Do you vets use a semi chisel chain for wood that's already on the ground , or just sharpen full chisel more often ?


 
Full chisel for most everything (skip on 24" & longer bars).Most all the stuff I'm cutting is fairly clean,even the old petrified dead Red/White Oak that was on the ground for years.I rarely skid any logs,only a short distance when I cant get any closer with garden tractor or pickup.I touch up the chain 2-3 strokes every tankful,sometimes a bit sooner if the wood is extra tough.

I keep 3-4 old semi-chisel & safety chains hanging on inside wall of shed for any yardbirds,stumps,fencerow stuff or salvaging anything else that might contain some wire/nails etc.
No sense ruining a new or freshly sharpened chain on that junk.Plus my ripping chains are skip tooth,ground at 10 degrees at local shop.


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## MasterMech (Dec 4, 2012)

HDRock said:


> Do you vets use a semi chisel chain for wood that's already on the ground , or just sharpen full chisel more often ?


 I don't have a loop of semi anymore so I'm just swapping out loops of chisel more often.  Gotta fix that, I really liked yellow label RM.


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## HDRock (Dec 5, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> I also take a stump vise and filing kit with me, too.


What do ya do if U don't have or forgot to bring a stump vise , just butt saw against something  ?


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## bogydave (Dec 5, 2012)

HDRock said:


> What do ya do if U don't have or forgot to bring a stump vise , just butt saw against something  ?


 
(1) Have an extra chain or 2 & swap out if you hit something or it gets dull.

Don't need a vise to hold the saw, it makes it nice but not needed.
(2) I sharpen mostly without a vise in the shop, (may need to try this vise idea   ).

Usually, if the chain is dull, I have a load & it's time to go home 
I try  to not hit the ground & no problem cutting a  cord+ without sharpening.

You'll know when the chain is dull after cutting with a full chisel for a bit.
Chip size, sound, feel, rpm & 10 seconds to make a 3 second cut


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## MasterMech (Dec 5, 2012)

HDRock said:


> What do ya do if U don't have or forgot to bring a stump vise , just butt saw against something  ?


 I avoid sharpening in the field if at all possible.  Faster to swap chains.  If you have to, and you don't have a stump vise (mine rides in the case with the saw), then you can clamp the bar in between your feet and work on it like that.


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## TreePointer (Dec 5, 2012)

As others have stated, you just need to immobilize the saw in whatever way works for you. Stump vise is inexpensive and small enough to justify sticking one in your saw bag or case. Mine is in my saw bag with sharpening kits as a last resort if all my chains become dull before calling it a day.

\You can cut your own stump vise, too:


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## StihlHead (Dec 5, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> I don't have a loop of semi anymore so I'm just swapping out loops of chisel more often. Gotta fix that, I really liked yellow label RM.


 
I use RM semi more than I use full chisel on my larger saws. I cut slash piles for firewood and not so clean downed wood. That stuff is murder on full chisel loops. Clean wood, full chisel. The rest, semi, as it stays sharp in crud a lot longer. Also all my low profile picco chain for the 211 is Carlton semi chisel.


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