# Hail damage to roof shingles?



## drdoct (Sep 17, 2009)

It's been around 2 months ago but we had a tornado go through and lots of bad weather.  The twister was actually a block away but no real damage that I knew of.  Today I answer the door to a salesman type.  He's from a roofing company and says I've got a hail damaged roof.  Now normally I run these dudes off pretty quickly, but was in the middle of a tragedy so was feeling benevolent.  He says that he works for American Shingle.  He said that he would file the claim with my insurance and then get on the roof with my adjuster and get me a new roof.  Not a layover but a complete tear down and redo.  My deductible is $500 and a new roof for that price sounds too good to be true.  I really don't want to do anything that is immoral or lying but if there is hail damage or something I wouldn't know in the first place.  I wouldn't want there to be a problem and me not fix it until it was too late and then get stuck with a whole roof redo.  What do y'all think?  I don't have leaks, but he said that the shingle integrity is what breaks down in hail damage situations and it doesn't leak until a few years later but it takes the life off the shingle.  I'm not a roofer and have never even roofed a dog house.  Has anyone done this or had this pitch to them?


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## daveswoodhauler (Sep 17, 2009)

If you have a standard HO3 policy (Homeowners) Most policies include hail as a covered peril.
Hardest part of your claim would be claiming the damage was hail, and not wear and tear which are excluded perils.
Give your ins agency a call and put them on notice...take some pics of the damaged shingles....doubt the insurance company would pay for the entire roof unless every shingle was damaged....maybe post a few pics here.


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## LLigetfa (Sep 17, 2009)

Every few years, we get some nasty hail come through here.  I've seen golf ball and baseball sizes.  Lots of people got new roofs as a result.  The insurance adjuster isn't going to agree to replace it if it's a bogus claim.  If you kept any spare shingles take one out and compare it with what's up there.  You might be surprised at the difference.  After the granular surface has eroded, the shingles won't last as long as the should have.  I don't see why you would accept a shortened lifespan on your shingles.


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## drdoct (Sep 17, 2009)

Well, we've certainly had the hail.  Don't have any spare shingles.  This guy said he would be the expert and he KNOWS I've got a hail damaged roof.  He would be the one on the roof with the adjuster and he would get it done.  Again, I'm not a roofing person at all.  I got up there for the chimney install, but other than that I really try to stay off it.  I just don't want to have some sort of damage and not use the insurance for what I'm paying for.  All I have to do for his 'expert' service is promise to give American Shingle the job.  I have no problem with that, but I also do not want to waste anyone's time (mine especially) doing anything if it's not legit.  I'm just trying to avoid something in the near future where I end up kicking myself AND having to pay for it all myself because I'm definitely not the one to figure it out and the adjuster... well you know who's side he's on.  And of course the shingle guy he's on the getting paid side.


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## Gooserider (Sep 17, 2009)

No data, and the guy could be legit, but this is the kind of situation that makes my "Scam Alarm" go into full blare, wake the dead mode... :bug:  Sales people that come to me offering "bargains"  in fixing problems I didn't know I had seem somewhat suspect....

I'd do some serious looking into the company - who is "American Shingle" and what sort of product do they produce / install?  I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean much.  If it is a legit outfit, give them a call and ask if this guy is legit? Is this one of their standard approved sales tactics?  Is the company local so that if the job isn't done right there is someone to chase?

Ask your neighbors if this guy has been knocking on their doors as well?

Check with the cops to see if this is a known scam?

Check with the insurance co. to see if they have any reports of scam artists trying to play this sort of game...

Maybe talk to a reputable local roofing company and get their opinion - shouldn't cost much if anything...

What sort of condition did you think your roof was in - what sort of shingles were on it, how old are they, what condition did you think they were in?

I have ZERO evidence that this is anything but legitimate, but I can also imagine some outfit that looks for marginal appearing roofs in a neighborhood where there could be weather claims and offers the homeowner and ins. co. a "bargain" re-roof and then does a poor quality job, or uses low grade materials and leaves you with a roof that is no better than what you started with, if not worse...

Gooserider


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## firefighterjake (Sep 17, 2009)

I agree with the Goose . . . sounds too much like "Gypsy" workers -- folks who go knocking on the doors claiming they were in the area and noticed problems with your gutter, roof, etc. or they're working in the area tarring another driveway and have some extra asphault left over and can offer you a good deal -- of course the problem is the price is usually higher than first quoted and the work is sloppy or nearly non-existent.

The fact that this guy just happened to show up after a weather event has all the hallmarks of a scammer . . . definitely do some more research by calling the local police and finding out more info on this company.





			
				Gooserider said:
			
		

> No data, and the guy could be legit, but this is the kind of situation that makes my "Scam Alarm" go into full blare, wake the dead mode... :bug:  Sales people that come to me offering "bargains"  in fixing problems I didn't know I had seem somewhat suspect....
> 
> I'd do some serious looking into the company - who is "American Shingle" and what sort of product do they produce / install?  I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean much.  If it is a legit outfit, give them a call and ask if this guy is legit? Is this one of their standard approved sales tactics?  Is the company local so that if the job isn't done right there is someone to chase?
> 
> ...


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## thewoodlands (Sep 17, 2009)

drdoct said:
			
		

> It's been around 2 months ago but we had a tornado go through and lots of bad weather.  The twister was actually a block away but no real damage that I knew of.  Today I answer the door to a salesman type.  He's from a roofing company and says I've got a hail damaged roof.  Now normally I run these dudes off pretty quickly, but was in the middle of a tragedy so was feeling benevolent.  He says that he works for American Shingle.  He said that he would file the claim with my insurance and then get on the roof with my adjuster and get me a new roof.  Not a layover but a complete tear down and redo.  My deductible is $500 and a new roof for that price sounds too good to be true.  I really don't want to do anything that is immoral or lying but if there is hail damage or something I wouldn't know in the first place.  I wouldn't want there to be a problem and me not fix it until it was too late and then get stuck with a whole roof redo.  What do y'all think?  I don't have leaks, but he said that the shingle integrity is what breaks down in hail damage situations and it doesn't leak until a few years later but it takes the life off the shingle.  I'm not a roofer and have never even roofed a dog house.  Has anyone done this or had this pitch to them?



Just a quick google turned up this / 

http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business.../american-shingle-in-douglasville-ga-27257184

Zap


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## BrotherBart (Sep 17, 2009)

American Shingle is headquartered out of Atlanta and has places all over the country. Call your real estate wienie and tell him that American Shingle looked at your roof and advised that it is hail damaged and see what they advise. You don't owe American Shingle anything at this point and if it is damaged the adjuster will tell you about it.


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## Gooserider (Sep 17, 2009)

Note also that just because the salesguy said he was with "American Shingle", doesn't necessarily mean he is...  Could be someone just pretending, or else some scammers will create a company with a name close to that of the desired outfit and then attempts to confuse the customer as to who he is really representing...  This is why I was suggesting not only checking to see if the company is legit (which it appears to be, although a B- from the BBB is nothing to brag about) but making sure they actually had this guy as one of their salespersons...

Gooserider


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## Hogwildz (Sep 18, 2009)

Consider this:
Economy is dead as hell. Construction is even worse. Hes out doing cold calls door to door trying to drum up work.
Can't fault him for that, but doesn't mean you necessarily need a new roof, due to hail damage anyways.
Shingles are pretty tough to be damaged by hail. 
On top of your deductible, ask him who is going to pay for any betterment or depreciation the insurance company is most likely going to charge back to you?
This means, depending on the age of the roof, the ins. co. is going to apply a percentage of betterment (giving you better or new, compared to what was on there already used & worn).
It would suck to have the ins. co. cut you a check for 1/2 the bill, and say the rest is on you.
The salesman wants to make a sale, to make his commission. Do you really think he gives a crap who pays for it, whether its the ins. co. or you?
How did he see the damage? Is it that obvious that you never noticed it? Did he have his binoculars with him? LOL
And depending on some roof pitches, you can't see much worth a damn, unless your on the roof looking at it.
Its a new version of the old door to door vacuum salesman. If your that worried, get a couple more opinions from local reputable roofing companies.
I roofed for 13 years, and seen it all from the salesman. They depend on commission, just like a car salesman.
I'd tell the mofo, to keep walking and fins another sucker.


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## Czech (Sep 18, 2009)

If you pay for home owners ins, and the adjuster approves the claim, why do you feel it is not legit? Did the same a month ago, contractor was working on another house and stopped by. I knew they were an upstanding company so that was not an issue, do your homework there. I called my agent, I also felt a little cheesy, but my adjuster told me this is what I pay for. They actaully claimed the siding first and not the roof, I complained that how can you damage all the sides and not the roof? They sent another adjuster and the roof was approved. Again, why feel guilty for getting service for what you are paying for? Just make sure the contractor is on the up and up. Also, depending on your policy, you may get full replacement (no depreciation) cost on the claim. Hail damage can be hard to discern to the untrained eye, the adjuster had to specifcally point this out to me. Lastly, make darn sure they use a decent product, say a 30yr Timberline, ice and water sheild etc. If they try and up charge, do your homework and price out materials at a local big box for reference. Here in MN I paid out $90/hour labor wise for a crew of 5 for what it matters. Good luck!!


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## Gooserider (Sep 18, 2009)

GotzTheHotz said:
			
		

> If you pay for home owners ins, and the adjuster approves the claim, why do you feel it is not legit? Did the same a month ago, contractor was working on another house and stopped by. I knew they were an upstanding company so that was not an issue, do your homework there. I called my agent, I also felt a little cheesy, but my adjuster told me this is what I pay for. They actaully claimed the siding first and not the roof, I complained that how can you damage all the sides and not the roof? They sent another adjuster and the roof was approved. Again, why feel guilty for getting service for what you are paying for? Just make sure the contractor is on the up and up. Also, depending on your policy, you may get full replacement (no depreciation) cost on the claim. Hail damage can be hard to discern to the untrained eye, the adjuster had to specifcally point this out to me. Lastly, make darn sure they use a decent product, say a 30yr Timberline, ice and water sheild etc. If they try and up charge, do your homework and price out materials at a local big box for reference. Here in MN I paid out $90/hour labor wise for a crew of 5 for what it matters. Good luck!!



Good comment, and I agree, *IF* one can verify that the sales guy, company, etc. are legitimate, and there really is damage, then it might well be a reasonable thing to do.  However, the story also matches the pattern of some scam artists, so I feel that it is worth being extra cautious - I wouldn't want to get ripped off, and while I have no special friendship for insurance companies, I wouldn't want to be used to rip off an insurance company for coverage of a non-merited claim either...

Gooserider


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## Hogwildz (Sep 19, 2009)

If its legit, its legit.
Keep in mind, your premiums may go up also.


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## basod (Sep 20, 2009)

My nieghbor had his redone this past summer, "hail damage".  The roof had about an inch of moss growing on one side of it and was original to house built in '86 I believe.  My house was built in 80, same 40 degree pitch and has no "hail damage" or leaks unless you count the front porch add on, with 3+" an hour rains that we get around here 40 degree into hip, onto 1-12 pitch front porch equals water dam.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 21, 2009)

BASOD said:
			
		

> My nieghbor had his redone this past summer, "hail damage".  The roof had about an inch of moss growing on one side of it and was original to house built in '86 I believe.  My house was built in 80, same 40 degree pitch and has no "hail damage" or leaks unless you count the front porch add on, with 3+" an hour rains that we get around here 40 degree into hip, onto 1-12 pitch front porch equals water dam.



Dayum bro, a 1/12 isnt even warranted by the shingle manufacturers. You should gone rubber there.


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## rowerwet (Sep 21, 2009)

or steel, I have a 1in 12 pitch on my kitchen roof, 16' from peak to edge. I put on steel and haven't had problems since with ice dams etc. 
   The roofer would raise my scam alarm also, I worked with a guy who made a ton of money after a huricane, he rented a pickup and put a magnetic sign on the door (made on his printer), then drove around and acted like a roofing salesman, and when you gave him your check or cash for $200 and signed the paper a crew would be there just as soon as they could. WHAT A CREEP!


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## slick1ru2 (Nov 4, 2009)

American Shingle just knocked. I live in Cobb County, GA. In Cobb County you have to have a county issued ID with a photo, etc. He had none and insisted he wasn't soliciting, that he was just here to get my insurance to give me a new roof. I told him my roof was fine and he said that's what the people on the other street thought and they are getting a new roof. Then more arguing about soliciting. I did a quick internet search and American Shingle Scam was a key Google search so I called the police, who enforce the no ID solicitors. We are also in a no solicitation neighborhood. I always research anyone I do business with, I don't know them from Adam. And a multi-thousand dollar claim on my roof that has no damage is just going to make my premiums go up. No thanks. He can argue with the officer if he is soliciting or not.


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## struggle (Nov 5, 2009)

I would run this guy off my property with a bat if he argued with me. In no uncertain terms would I ever take to letting a solicitor on my property to sell me anything. 

LIke others have said SCAM!

If you are concerned about the roof then deal directly with your insurance company about it and if the adjuster says new roof research several contractors and have them bid your roof. 

We just had a complete tear off on our house and three skylights replaced (one was leaking between the glass not into the house,25 years old) and all the people we had bids from came recommended by people that we personally knew that had roofing work done from these companies. 

In a tough economy trust no one when it comes to door to door sales. We get shady tree trimmers all the time around here trying to scare people into getting trees trimmed.


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## slick1ru2 (Nov 5, 2009)

My ex-wife's boss at the time we were married was ripped off by the driveway scammers. Might actually have been the wife that was ripped. They said they were in the area and had material left over from a driveway they resurfaced. First time it rained washed whatever they put on the drive right down the sewer. He was a shrink in Atlanta, so big bucks, but still. The other thing to look at now especially is that the break-ins are way up. Worked for a SWAT team commander whose house was not visible from the road and had several break-ins. They stole his guns, poisoned his Dobermans, disarmed his alarm system. If they knew who they did this too, this was one scary cop. He had a Gillie suit, I could picture him hiding in his yard waiting for them, lol. But he told me, there are people that get up everyday and their "job" is just to rob houses while people are at work. Its so bad here in Atlanta, that people are advised not to leave the garage door up while home, because people are now robbing houses in the daytime when people are at home and they come in and take control while robbing you. Next thing you know, I am going to have to start packing when I go to the mailbox and mow the lawn.


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## struggle (Nov 5, 2009)

That is the way it is in FL do not walk around to your back yard with the garage door open.


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## vmellen (Jan 13, 2010)

I work as a salesman for American Shingle here in Columbia SC. Yes we approach sales as a door to door salesman but we are not scammers. Of coarse the companies goal is to make money. Whoever all of you  work for does the same thing and its all about money. No one could ever stay in buisness if they didnt make money. The reason we look for clientel so aggressively is because we make more money that way (obviously). The reason we work in insurance claims is because we can help both the homeowner and the insurance company from being screwed over by each other. The insurance company wants you to pay your premiums every month and never get anything back. That is why most insurance companies now offer disscounts if you've never filed a claim. Also, most people dont know that their local agents get annual bonuses for their offices profit. Basically if you pay your premiums and never file they get a bigger bonus. Now on the flip side; Alot of homeowners (believe it or not) will desire to capitalize on their misfortune by filing a claim and getting their insurance company to approve the total replacement of the roof and then when they find out what the insurance is going to pay they take several bids in order to go with the cheapest one and pocket usually in the area of one to two thousand dollars. This is not only scamming the insurance company but it is also insurance fraud which is illegal by the way. Most homeowners dont know what storm damage is or what insurance companies are going to cover. We do. Your adjuster can (and will; I've seen it) tell you anything. Some homeowners are just out to get whatever they can. Some people are just like that. So based on both sides of the story, you cant trust your insurance company and they cant trust you. In the end you both look out for your own interests. Thats why our company negotiates the costs directly with your insuance company. No storm chasing scammers that I've ever heard of would dare to do that. So in the end the problem isnt "door to door scammers", the problem is all scammers even the ones who have legitimate buisnesses and the ones who work normal nine to fives then go home to their families. Oh by the way; American Shingle is not only the largest roofing contractor in the nation, but we are also members of the BBB the National Roofing Contractors Association, and we are GAF/Elk Factory Elite Certified Installers(this certification is only given to the top 3 percent of roofers in the country). We only use GAF/Elk roofing products which is the highest quality product out there. As far as everyone who prematurely called us scammers, American Shingle salesman have families to feed too. This job is hard enough without people slandering us who dont really know what their talking about. Oh, and beware of insurance adjusters who are in bed with contractors. That is a scam!


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## EatenByLimestone (Jan 14, 2010)

If the roof doesn't leak and has the gravel still on it, I think I'd pass on the re-roof.    Any claims you make will stay with you, even after you sell the house.   

Matt


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## kartracer (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm an insurance adjuster and we have had a lot of bad weather in NC.There are a ton of companies running around doing this.We look at all the roofs,many times it is bogus.There are companies here from GA AND OH that are trying to take people and insurance companies for a ride.We will call in an independent party(engineer) of the insureds choice AND will go off their evaluation if there is a problem.Alot of these companies are going door to door and saying there is hail damage when the house is 2 to 3 stories and there is no way to tell without getting on the roof.Over time you wll lose so much gravel off the shingles.If there is obvious damage such as shingle missing,damaged ridge vents then call by all means.If there has been storms in your area,check your roof,that is what insurance is for-just don't let gypsy roofers take advantage of ya.Many of the companies that have done repairs where there was legit damage have done some very questionable work.Stick to local companies with good reps.


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## kartracer (Jan 15, 2010)

As a side note,I just look at vehicles but have to deal with property adjusters every day.I went to Mississippi to help when Katrina came thru.The price for a square of shingles went from 130 to 260 in less than a month.Do some research and see how many companies went bankrupt.I have worked many devasted areas,but that was unbelievable.There are many companies and the one mentioned I can't comment on,as we have not dealt with them,but there are many that will take advantage of a disaster.


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## lpsunshine (Aug 13, 2010)

Bad Roof -- I'm just typing a reply based on what Gooserider said ... ALWAYS check with cops if you're not sure something is a ssam. Of course, you STILL may not get the info. 

My husband (poor thing), signed up American Singles, still got burned really bad. They are truly SCAM artists. All over many states now according to the news on NBC, CBS, ABC, and maybe others I don't know about. If he had only asked me first, I had the time to do the research, but he was trying to give me a surprise. Everyone -- please don't give them your business.


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## woodsmaster (Aug 15, 2010)

vanmellen said:
			
		

> I work as a salesman for American Shingle here in Columbia SC. Yes we approach sales as a door to door salesman but we are not scammers. Of coarse the companies goal is to make money. Whoever all of you work for does the same thing and its all about money. No one could ever stay in buisness if they didnt make money. The reason we look for clientel so aggressively is because we make more money that way (obviously). The reason we work in insurance claims is because we can help both the homeowner and the insurance company from being screwed over by each other. The insurance company wants you to pay your premiums every month and never get anything back. That is why most insurance companies now offer disscounts if you've never filed a claim. Also, most people dont know that their local agents get annual bonuses for their offices profit. Basically if you pay your premiums and never file they get a bigger bonus. Now on the flip side; Alot of homeowners (believe it or not) will desire to capitalize on their misfortune by filing a claim and getting their insurance company to approve the total replacement of the roof and then when they find out what the insurance is going to pay they take several bids in order to go with the cheapest one and pocket usually in the area of one to two thousand dollars. This is not only scamming the insurance company but it is also insurance fraud which is illegal by the way. Most homeowners dont know what storm damage is or what insurance companies are going to cover. We do. Your adjuster can (and will; I've seen it) tell you anything. Some homeowners are just out to get whatever they can. Some people are just like that. So based on both sides of the story, you cant trust your insurance company and they cant trust you. In the end you both look out for your own interests. Thats why our company negotiates the costs directly with your insuance company. No storm chasing scammers that I've ever heard of would dare to do that. So in the end the problem isnt "door to door scammers", the problem is all scammers even the ones who have legitimate buisnesses and the ones who work normal nine to fives then go home to their families. Oh by the way; American Shingle is not only the largest roofing contractor in the nation, but we are also members of the BBB the National Roofing Contractors Association, and we are GAF/Elk Factory Elite Certified Installers(this certification is only given to the top 3 percent of roofers in the country). We only use GAF/Elk roofing products which is the highest quality product out there. As far as everyone who prematurely called us scammers, American Shingle salesman have families to feed too. This job is hard enough without people slandering us who dont really know what their talking about. Oh, and beware of insurance adjusters who are in bed with contractors. That is a scam!



Elk was bought out by GAF and there is no such thing as Elk any more. Highest quality is your opinion. I would say good quality.


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## lpsunshine (Aug 15, 2010)

....and THIS is why American Shingle has recently earned an "F" with BBB in N.C.


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## btuser (Aug 15, 2010)

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> If its legit, its legit.
> Keep in mind, your premiums may go up also.



They will get their money back from you.  After you do the math you come to realize its nothing but a loan, and you can fincance your own improvements cheaper.  Homeowner's insurance isn't to fix things, it's there to make sure the bank can get their money.


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## woodsmaster (Aug 15, 2010)

I was wrong. GAF does still use the elk name.


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## LLigetfa (Aug 15, 2010)

lpsunshine said:
			
		

> My husband (poor thing), signed up American *Singles*, still got burned really bad...


Isn't that a dating service?


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## fossil (Aug 15, 2010)

Zombie thread from last year.   %-P


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## LLigetfa (Aug 15, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Zombie thread from last year.   %-P


Maybe he was still single last year. ;-P


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