# Harman p38 auger tube crack failure?



## ducker (Dec 5, 2009)

I noticed the following gap when I was cleaning out the burnpot this morning.
I'm a little concerned as I do not remember seeing this before.

I've had the stove for little over a year.  I want to get a good idea of if it is a problem, how to effectively describe the problem (to the stove shop), if it is fixable, and finally can I be using my stove while I wait for it to get fixed.

This is really frustrating to a relatively new stove owner.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!


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## Lousyweather (Dec 5, 2009)

your feeder tube is failing.....that little gap will get larger and larger....you want to let the dealer know and hope its still under warrantee......fairly expensive repair otherwise, it entails removeing the auger weldment (basically a complete dissassemble of the drive mechanism of the stove)......the easiest ones to replace require the stove removed from the premises, and 3-5 hours work...the worst ones are the XXV's and Accentras....


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## poconoman (Dec 5, 2009)

Same problem here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/44125/


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## jtakeman (Dec 5, 2009)

swalz had the same issue as yours. Check link to other thread.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/44125/

Maybe a flaw harman hasn't noticed or the mad rush of stoves last year let some slip by QC. Not sure, But I hope you get yours covered under warranty. I don't think that should happen in a years time.

Edit: poconoman beat me to it! Dang he's quick!


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## ducker (Dec 5, 2009)

could I still use it up until they come and get it?


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## Lousyweather (Dec 5, 2009)

yea, for awhile, but eventually, you will get pellets falling into your air tube, clogging it and the ignitor (if you have one)


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## ducker (Dec 5, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> yea, for awhile, but eventually, you will get pellets falling into your air tube, clogging it and the ignitor (if you have one)




well then it's good the stove doesn't have an igniter.

I already put the call in to the dealership.  A repair tech should be contacting me today or Tuesday (they are closed Sunday/Monday)
I'm also emailing them a picture so they can see the situation.

Thanks for the fast replies guys.

-Mike


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## gbreda (Dec 5, 2009)

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but are we looking at the gap at the the bottom left of the tube (probably) or what appears to be a crack near the end of the aguer?  Sounds stupid, but my first focus was on what looked to me like a cracked auger.  Or is that just crud there?  Kind of confused me at first.

edit: as this looks like a possible Harman issue, I want to know what to look for when cleaning the stove, especially when under full warranty.


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## mick5726 (Dec 5, 2009)

Had this same thing happen on my Harman insert last fall. the dealer peplaced the tube and a new auger at no cost. They like to take the stove back to the shop but replaced mind in the home about 5hs work.


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## LIpelletpig (Dec 5, 2009)

What are we actually looking for?  I can't seem to notice a crack either....Would like to know so I can watch out for it.


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## Bkins (Dec 5, 2009)

I would clean that burnpot up before I sent any pictures to anybody.  It doesn't look like its been cleaned for a while.  The crack looks like its on the bottom left of the augar and it looks like it may be starting in the same location on the right.  Good luck.

Bkins


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## ducker (Dec 5, 2009)

Bkins said:
			
		

> I would clean that burnpot up before I sent any pictures to anybody.  It doesn't look like its been cleaned for a while.  The crack looks like its on the bottom left of the augar and it looks like it may be starting in the same location on the right.  Good luck.
> 
> Bkins



hm. Well I cleaned it out right before I took a picture.  It isn't like I take a vaccum to the burn pot every time I clean it out.  I scrape the heck out of it with the tool and then used my fingers to pull up all the ash and clinkers.  It's a burn pot, it's going to be dirty.?.


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## LIpelletpig (Dec 5, 2009)

ok...I'll ask again where is the crack?  Bottom left corner?  I would assume that little space is the seem between the tube and the weldmount.  Looks normal to me.


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## jtakeman (Dec 5, 2009)

Medreach said:
			
		

> ok...I'll ask again where is the crack?  Bottom left corner?  I would assume that little space is the seem between the tube and the weldmount.  Looks normal to me.



See attachment


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## swalz (Dec 5, 2009)

That's the same area mine cracked also, I started to hear the metal creek but could not find where it was coming from. Mine started to burn very poorly and I just did a full cleaning to start it up for the season. Mine has been down for around 2 months total and in the shop since the end of October, I am hoping mine is back next week getting cold hear and need it for the addition that is our family room. My problem is the dealer I bought my stove from no longer sells Harman and will not do the warranty work so I know I am going to have to pay something for the repair, just hoping it is not to much from another dealer.


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## imacman (Dec 5, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> .....the dealer I bought my stove from no longer sells Harman and will not do the warranty work so I know I am going to have to pay something for the repair, just hoping it is not to much from another dealer.



That sucks big time, IMO.  I'm guessing that Harman left you out in the cold on this?  From what I saw on the Harman dealer locator, there is (or was?) 3 dealers within 20 miles of you....none of them will do the servicing???


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## ducker (Dec 5, 2009)

yea that is lame.. hopefully I'll be a bit more fortunate as the dealer I bought mine from is still there dealing with Harman's.
No call today, so hopefully tuesday.

jtakeman - thanks for the little edit   I was going to do that too!


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## Dr_Drum (Dec 5, 2009)

swalz said:
			
		

> . . . I know I am going to have to pay something for the repair, just hoping it is not to much from another dealer.



You may be able to get your warranty transfered to that other dealer. You shouldn't have to pay if it's covered under warranty. That's the point of the warranty. Your old dealer must be in violation of a contract with Harmon. That dealer can't just stop honoring warranty work can they? You should still have Harmon pay the bill, or reimburse you.
Mike -


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## swalz (Dec 5, 2009)

macman said:
			
		

> swalz said:
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Actually there is only one the other two are a lot farther than they list, the other two are from 60 to 80 miles from me. Harman is letting the dealers sell and not need a service department, I called the three dealers and all of them have no service department and use third party service companies. The one I am dealing with said that they will replace the parts but there is a charge for the service company to come out. Harman in my book is going downhill if they let this happen. There were three dealers that were within forty miles now they are no longer selling Harman and they all had service departments. After they were taking over by HHT they no longer sell them.

Harman is reimbursing me $450 for the repair, don't think that is going to cover it.


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## Dr_Drum (Dec 6, 2009)

Bummer man, that just sucks. Good luck to ya. Keep us posted. 
Mike -


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## grathan (Dec 9, 2009)

What happens here I wonder. Does the metal thin out and crack or is there 2 pieces seperating from one another?  I just bought a Harmon and wonder if I wouldn't try welding or patching the crack if it was out of warranty.


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## summit (Dec 9, 2009)

grathan said:
			
		

> What happens here I wonder. Does the metal thin out and crack or is there 2 pieces seperating from one another?  I just bought a Harmon and wonder if I wouldn't try welding or patching the crack if it was out of warranty.



its the seam where the auger tube and pot meet... they are 2 seperate pieces and boltd together via studs and bolts.. ITS NOT a crack, just a spot where the baked on carbon came off clean... go to a showroom and look at a frsh one: you'll see a seam all the way round.


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## mjbrown (Dec 9, 2009)

on the first pic from ducker, i would say its just seam between the auger tube and burn pot... but the pic from swalz is a different story. you can clearly see that the crack is behind the seam and in the auger tube itself.

it really sux that we harman owners have the trouble we do with warranties...why cant harman just be like englander? with the prices on these stoves, they are certainly not in the poorhouse. i hope my P38 continues to run as well as it does without these headaches.


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## ducker (Dec 9, 2009)

it would sound as if your assesments are corect.  They are coming by on Saturday morning to replace the auger feed-tube assembly and burn pot.

They stated that there are 5 additional air vents/holes down at the base of the burn pot which can cause the flame to over burn in the pot and cause that gap to show up.
(or something to that extent)

They figured about 90min to do the replacement.  Just need to take off the back hopper, and start taking pieces out.

my part will be cleaning out the burn pot, the ashes, and making sure there are no pellets in the hopper.


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## swalz (Dec 10, 2009)

ducker said:
			
		

> it would sound as if your assesments are corect.  They are coming by on Saturday morning to replace the auger feed-tube assembly and burn pot.
> 
> They stated that there are 5 additional air vents/holes down at the base of the burn pot which can cause the flame to over burn in the pot and cause that gap to show up.
> (or something to that extent)
> ...



WOW 90 minutes! they are charging me for 5.5 hrs to repair mine and 4 hrs to to pick up and deliver.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 10, 2009)

ducker said:
			
		

> it would sound as if your assesments are corect.  They are coming by on Saturday morning to replace the auger feed-tube assembly and burn pot.
> 
> They stated that there are 5 additional air vents/holes down at the base of the burn pot which can cause the flame to over burn in the pot and cause that gap to show up.
> (or something to that extent)
> ...



90 mins to replace the auger tube weldment?! NO WAY! Especially in-house....3-4.5 hours


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## ducker (Dec 10, 2009)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> ducker said:
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My understanding is that there is no welding needing to be done.
Hey, I have no idea what they are replacing etc... just that they are coming and fixing it 

But thanks for the notion that quite possibly will take twice as long to fix it then they told me.


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## tinkabranc (Dec 10, 2009)

I have been following both threads on these auger tube issues but am getting
a bit confused now.   

The issues swalz is having looks like a digger _inside _the auger tube and ducker's
looks to be a little gap where the pot and tube meet.   Different issues or no?

I do not know anything about welding so forgive my symantix, but wouldn't a spot weld
in the spot where the parts meet take care of that gap?


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## ducker (Dec 12, 2009)

Ok the guys showed up at around 11am. It's now 1 and they are piecing it back together. There are two guys working on it.  It's definately the feeder box they are replacing.  Pics to follow later shen I have more time.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 12, 2009)

so, it'll be between 5 and 6 man-hours then, right?


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## ducker (Dec 12, 2009)

well all things considered it seemed as if one guy was doing all the work and the other was just assisting him.

I would figure it took them total of 4 man hours.... then we fired it back up to make sure everything was working.  They were out of the house by 1:40pm.
arrived around 11:10am.  Total time spent in the house was about 2.5 hours; or 5 man hours. start to finish.


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## Lousyweather (Dec 13, 2009)

dont forget travel time.........


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## ducker (Dec 14, 2009)

good point!! assuming from the stove shop to my place... approx 40 min.  So add another 80min to the job!!  That adds a bit.  
(I know they came from even further away, but I can't control where their jobs were scheduled.)

Bah, I forgot to post pictures last night.  will do it tonight!


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## Lousyweather (Dec 14, 2009)

and is that travel time one way, or both ways? so, worst case, 2 ways.......40mins x 2 = 80 mins
80 mins x 2 guys = 160 mins, or almost another 3 man-hours!


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## timjk69 (Dec 14, 2009)

I agree with Summit. Their's a gasket between the the burner and main body. I had the same situation, pulled off the burner and resealed that small area to eliminate the air leak.
Would be easier to just pack a little furnace cement in if needed.


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## ducker (Dec 14, 2009)

summit said:
			
		

> grathan said:
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I'll post pics tonight, there's no seam where that hole is, it's a clean tube with out any welds/seams in it.
the piece where the hole is is #8 - on the last page: the Ultra Feeder Weldment part# 1-10-724132

They replaced that whole piece


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## ducker (Dec 16, 2009)

the below is the replacement piece:








You can see it is one solid piece.  no welds at the opening where it is to connect to the burn pot.



and here is my cooked one:





You can see even more clearly now where the hole is, there shouldn't be any thing at all there, it should be a solid pipe!!

Now what you can't  see in the picture of mine, is the fact that the small 1/8th of an inch protrusion of the pipe on the new feed weldment has all be dissolved on the bottom part of the feeder tube in the weldment piece.

I should have taken a good picture of the burn pot when they had it all apart, but I didn't think of that at the time.


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