# Insert not heating room or house



## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Hey there, my wife and I just recently purchased a jotul 350 winterport insert for existing masonry fireplace. I did all the proper things for the Breakin process. Drafting nicely and the stove even cranks when we getting going for a while. For some reason if our thermometer reads 58 when we start, I can't get the room past 60 degrees no matter how long we have been burning on a cold night. My installer said it was installed properly as well as a second opinion chimney service came and said nothing is wrong. I have wood that roughly 8 -10 monts old as well. What am I doing wrong any ideas or advice to help me heat my home with this insert? The stove heats up to 1300 sqft and my living space is only 1248. I'm stumped.


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## Rickb (Nov 21, 2013)

Did they install a block off plate when they installed the insert?  And 8-10 months old is wet wood if its oak.  Just depends on the type of wood as to if it is seasoned that fast or not.


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

Those sqft ratings have to be taken with a grain of salt. The upper limit is usually a well-insulated home in a climate that rarely goes below freezing. Nevertheless, your 350 should do better and at least heat the room. Has the wood been split and stacked with lots of wind and sun for those 8 months? What kind of species is it? Do you have a thermometer to measure the temps of the stove? For an insert we usually recommend an IR thermometer. Is that an interior fireplace or does the back go to the outside? How tall is the chimney? Is it lined? How do you burn? Number of splits loaded, setting of the air control, do you see secondaries in the top of the firebox? The block-off plate is a good suggestion, too.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

They did not install a damper block off plate. My installer said because I have a full stainless steel chimney liner I did not need one because at the top of the chimney it is capped off . As for the wood, their is some seasoned stuff but for the most part I definitely do not have seasoned enough wood. I have a coworker that burns and he gave me some really good seasoned wood and we burned it the day the chimney guy came. Was able to get house at a good 72 degrees but it was like 50 degrees outside.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Grisu...unfortunately my house is not dry well insulated but like you said my room should at least be getting heated. I onl have one zone for my thermostat and it's in the same room as the insert so if it reaches around 60 my heat will not turn on in rest of house and my upstairs is freezing. My house is a small cape with the chimney being an exterior chimney.  The wood we restacked  to get better ventilation but now I don't think that wood will be ready until next season I'm still trying to play around with air controls as I'm kinda new to this as well as when to set the blower higher or. Lower etc what are secondaries.. I do have a thermometer on front of stove above glass I try to keep it at around 4 450 but it takes time to get to that point and maintain it


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## ort5 (Nov 21, 2013)

I prefer a block-off place at the base of the chimney, if at all possible.   It's just that much less volume of air to heat and helps keep heat trapped in the house.  

I would suggest getting a package of compressed sawdust bricks or logs and add a couple to your existing wood.   You should be able to maintain 500+F stovetop temps with decent wood.   Does the insert have a blower?   If not, it's not going to throw much heat unfortunately.   You could try a fan to see if it helps.


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

Okay - a couple of points that can have big affects on overall heating.
1. - no lower block off plate.  You can go by your installers opinion (and you see how well that is working) or you can do the recommended insulated block off plate and see how that works for you.  It will only IMPROVE the performance.  There is no down side, other than the time/effort to do it.

2. You have not mentioned a fan.  Does the insert have a fan and do you use it?

3. Less than stellar wood. This is adding to the frustration of hitting and maintaining a good operational temp. Low burn temps equals low heat output.

There really isn't a solution to the thermostat issue other than relocating it.


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## Sully (Nov 21, 2013)

Check out other thread I posted on same topic. "Wife is getting bummed out"


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

The insert does have a blower.i leave it on automatic so that it will automatically come on after a certain time and temp has been reached.  I have been able toget the stove to 500+ degrees but the thermometer is showing that that's too hot for stove so I try not to get it that high. Will burning at 500 be ok? Also should I split wood up more or leave them how they are already split. Won't that make ten burn faster?  How would. I go about an insulated damper block off plate?  Why couldn't you just throw some insulation up the chimney? Anything at this point will help


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Sully said:


> Check out other thread I posted on same topic. "Wife is getting bummed out"


I was just lookin at that thanks it's getting super frustrating  at least your room is getting warm.. My house is small


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Those sqft ratings have to be taken with a grain of salt. The upper limit is usually a well-insulated home in a climate that rarely goes below freezing. Nevertheless, your 350 should do better and at least heat the room. Has the wood been split and stacked with lots of wind and sun for those 8 months? What kind of species is it? Do you have a thermometer to measure the temps of the stove? For an insert we usually recommend an IR thermometer. Is that an interior fireplace or does the back go to the outside? How tall is the chimney? Is it lined? How do you burn? Number of splits loaded, setting of the air control, do you see secondaries in the top of the firebox? The block-off plate is a good suggestion, too.



Grisu...unfortunately my house is not dry well insulated but like you said my room should at least be getting heated. I onl have one zone for my thermostat and it's in the same room as the insert so if it reaches around 60 my heat will not turn on in rest of house and my upstairs is freezing. My house is a small cape with the chimney being an exterior chimney.  The wood we restacked  to get better ventilation but now I don't think that wood will be ready until next season I'm still trying to play around with air controls as I'm kinda new to this as well as when to set the blower higher or. Lower etc what are secondaries.. I do have a thermometer on front of stove above glass I try to keep it at around 4 450 but it takes time to get to that point and maintain it


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> Okay - a couple of points that can have big affects on overall heating.
> 1. - no lower block off plate.  You can go by your installers opinion (and you see how well that is working) or you can do the recommended insulated block off plate and see how that works for you.  It will only IMPROVE the performance.  There is no down side, other than the time/effort to do it.
> 
> 2. You have not mentioned a fan.  Does the insert have a fan and do you use it?
> ...



The insert does have a blower.i leave it on automatic so that it will automatically come on after a certain time and temp has been reached.  I have been able toget the stove to 500+ degrees but the thermometer is showing that that's too hot for stove so I try not to get it that high. Will burning at 500 be ok? Also should I split wood up more or leave them how they are already split. Won't that make ten burn faster?  How would. I go about an insulated damper block off plate?  Why couldn't you just throw some insulation up the chimney? Anything at this point will help


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Sry for the repeats still trying to figure this forum out


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 21, 2013)

Try a little seasoned pine. 500 deg  sounds low when your pushing for heat ,after the house is warm 500 is OK .


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Try a little seasoned pine. 500 deg  sounds low when your pushing for heat ,after the house is warm 500 is OK .




So you're saying I should get the stove hotter initially?


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

That thermo is technically a stove pipe thermo.  The burn "indicator" is for the stovepipe, not a surface temp of the stove.  A 500F stove temp is in no way a high reading but we must also keep in mind that you are running an insert and 500F on the door is different than a stand alone stove top of 500F.

Point being - go by degrees, not the "indicator" when using that thermo.

Your insert will need to be pulled to properly insulate and fabricate a block off plate.  There are folks that get away with simply stuffing the insulation in, but a plate makes it a lifetime permanent install (in my opinion).  Have you ever seen 20 year old insulation that has not been covered by something.  Nasty.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> That thermo is technically a stove pipe thermo.  The burn "indicator" is for the stovepipe, not a surface temp of the stove.  A 500F stove temp is in no way a high reading but we must also keep in mind that you are running an insert and 500F on the door is different than a stand alone stove top of 500F.
> 
> So if that's the case how Hott should I be getting that thermometer  as well as  getting block off plate
> 
> ...


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> So you're saying I should get the stove hotter initially?


You would probably need to ask a member who has a lot of experience with inserts. I have several different free standing stove and the stovetops get up top 600-750 ish when im pushing them but cruise at about 500. Inserts are different animal though so i must refer you to those with that type stove. Im assuming you can only measure the front door temps.


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> So if that's the case how Hott should I be getting that thermometer as well as getting block off plate



Hopefully another Jotul insert owner will speak up here.  I am not an insert owner and do not want to give you bad info.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that the blockoff plate alone would noticeably improve the performance - even if you continue with the 500F reading.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> You would probably need to ask a member who has a lot of experience with inserts. I have several different free standing stove and the stovetops get up top 600-750 ish when im pushing them but cruise at about 500. Inserts are different animal though so i must refer you to those with that type stove. Im assuming you can only measure the front door temps.



Yeah the thermometer is on the front door .. So that's really the only reading I'm getting.. But if that's the case wouldn't the stove be generally hotter anyway then the front door?


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The insert does have a blower.i leave it on automatic so that it will automatically come on after a certain time and temp has been reached.  I have been able toget the stove to 500+ degrees but the thermometer is showing that that's too hot for stove so I try not to get it that high. Will burning at 500 be ok? Also should I split wood up more or leave them how they are already split. Won't that make ten burn faster?  How would. I go about an insulated damper block off plate?  Why couldn't you just throw some insulation up the chimney? Anything at this point will help


It sounds like you have a flue thermometer and not a stove top thermometer. If this is the case, ignore the ranges and pay attention to the actual temperature only. This is a small insert. You are asking the stove to run at its upper limit. That is going to require that other conditions be optimal, including insulation in the house. Here is what I would try. 


Put in an insulated block off plate and a layer of Roxul R15 insulation behind the insert if there is room. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/ 
Run the insert at 600F stove top temp
Mix in a couple quality compressed wood products like BioBricks in with the wood load
Work on sealing up leaks and consider getting an energy audit to understand the cost benefit and options for tightening up the house


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> Hopefully another Jotul insert owner will speak up here.  I am not an insert owner and do not want to give you bad info.
> 
> If I were a betting man, I would bet that the blockoff plate alone would noticeably improve the performance - even if you continue with the 500F reading.



I hope so too.. What does the damper block off plate consist of? How do I go about getting hotter temps  ? More smaller logs? How would you recommend burning? If it were ur stove lets say


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Yeah the thermometer is on the front door .. So that's really the only reading I'm getting.. But if that's the case wouldn't the stove be generally hotter anyway then the front door?



I would suspect so, but I don't know the correlation.  500F on the door means xxxF for the rest of the stove? That would be an interesting test on my own stand alone stove.  Hmmm....


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> It sounds like you have a flue thermometer and not a stove top thermometer. If this is the case, ignore the ranges and pay attention to the actual temperature only. This is a small insert. You are asking the stove to run at its upper limit. That is going to require that other conditions be optimal, including insulation in the house. Here is what I would try.
> 
> 
> Put in an insulated block off plate and a layer of Roxul R15 insulation behind the insert if there is room. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/
> ...



I currently have fiberglass insulation surrounding  stove  now except for on top. I was told that regular fiberglass insulation was ok to do so with. I believe it is r30  where would I get a stove top temp therm And where would I put it. I understand it is a  small insert but my house is not very big and it's not even heating my room that much


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

Drier wood is often the key to hotter fires. Try resplitting a couple loads of wood and set them aside in a box for a week in the house. This will help them dry out faster. After a week or so try burning this wood. If you have a much hotter fire the solution will be to get the wood drier quicker or to buy some kiln dried wood or a quality compressed fuel product.

PS: Regular fiberglass is not ok, particularly if it is in contact with the flue pipe. If so, get it out and replace it with a mineral wool insulation like Roxul.


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## joescho (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The insert does have a blower.i leave it on automatic so that it will automatically come on after a certain time and temp has been reached.  I have been able toget the stove to 500+ degrees but the thermometer is showing that that's too hot for stove so I try not to get it that high. Will burning at 500 be ok? Also should I split wood up more or leave them how they are already split. Won't that make ten burn faster?  How would. I go about an insulated damper block off plate?  Why couldn't you just throw some insulation up the chimney? Anything at this point will help


 
Not sure if the blower control/thermometer you speak of is the same for my stove the Jotul C550, but if it is its not reliable and I do not use it.  Instead I leave the blower on all the time and use a regular lamp timer to shut it off.

I think the only difference between your insert and the C550 I have is the size.  That thing should be cranking the heat.  If you're getting it upwards of 550, then  I would try leaving the blower on all the time and use a fan like others have said.

I also must admit, the wood I use is absolutely not the best in the wet/seasoned department too.

Even if your home is poorly insulated that thing should make the room where the stove is prety warm.  Then use a cheap box fan to blow cold air from other rooms into the room where the stove is to echange the hot/cold air.


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## Holiday (Nov 21, 2013)

I have a freestanding stove but because of the design I also have the thermometer on the door above the glass. When I have it burning properly on a full load of wood it's generally around 550 -600 with the thermometer I have. It throws substantially more heat running there than say even running it at 450.


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I hope so too.. What does the damper block off plate consist of? How do I go about getting hotter temps  ? More smaller logs? How would you recommend burning? If it were ur stove lets say



A blockoff plate can be made from light gauge tin.  Easy to work with when you need to bend the edges, cut hole, etc.
BG covered the wood issue.
If it were MY stove...The first thing I would do is get rid of the fiberglass ins.  It should not be used for this application. Second thing would be to build the appropriate blockoff plate and insulate above that.  Fasten the blockoff in place and then seal the edges of the plate.  Third - I would rock that stove without exceeding ~600F and run the blower at a midrange setting.  I would let the stove complete one burn cycle and then load it up again (from the hot coals ~300F).  THEN evaluate the heat output.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> A blockoff plate can be made from light gauge tin.  Easy to work with when you need to bend the edges, cut hole, etc.
> BG covered the wood issue.
> If it were MY stove...The first thing I would do is get rid of the fiberglass ins.  It should not be used for this application. Second thing would be to build the appropriate blockoff plate and insulate above that.  Fasten the blockoff in place and then seal the edges of the plate.  Third - I would rock that stove without exceeding ~600F and run the blower at a midrange setting.  I would let the stove complete one burn cycle and then load it up again.  THEN evaluate the heat output.




Any particular gauge? How do you fasten and seal it off


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/
> 
> Drier wood is often the key to hotter fires. Try resplitting a couple loads of wood and set them aside in a box for a week in the house. This will help them dry out faster. After a week or so try burning this wood. If you have a much hotter fire the solution will be to get the wood drier quicker or to buy some kiln dried wood or a quality compressed fuel product.
> 
> PS: Regular fiberglass is not ok, particularly if it is in contact with the flue pipe. If so, get it out and replace it with a mineral wool insulation like Roxul.



The insulation is only around the stoves firebox sandwiched in between the original masonry firebox.. You're saying I should replace that with roxul wool insulation?


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

To get an idea how stove top temp corresponds to temp at the front door maybe buy or borrow a second thermometer. Pull of the surround and remove the top air jacket if the Jotul has one to expose the stove top. Place one thermometer at the top and a second one at the front. Run the insert a few days with the blower off and compare both temps during the burn cycle. Then you can put the air jacket and the surround back on knowing when it says 500 F at the front that means x F stovetop. 

A few options for your wood: 
- mix in 1 or 2 manufactured logs like Biobricks or Enviro-logs with your not so good wood. That will bring down the overall moisture content.
- Get lumber scraps or cut up pallets (usually found for free at big box stores). Those are usually pretty dry.
- Ask your coworker if he is several winters ahead in seasoning his wood supply. Offer him to have 3 cords of green wood delivered to his house for two cords of seasoned wood. Of course, help with the stacking. 
In any case, clean your chimney often. This one works well and takes not much time: http://gardusinc.com/sooteater.html


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The insulation is only around the stoves firebox sandwiched in between the original masonry firebox.. You're saying I should replace that with roxul wool insulation?



If it's away from the flue collar and liner and if it is raw, unfaced fiberglass it's probably ok. If it is paper faced, yes replace it.


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Any particular gauge? How do you fasten and seal it off



20-22ga - whatever.  There is almost no force on it, so it can really be a light ga.  Tapcons - masonry nails, etc.  Seal with hi temp silicon around the outside edges.
If you search here for blockoff plates it will provide reading material till the cows come home.


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## weatherguy (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The insulation is only around the stoves firebox sandwiched in between the original masonry firebox.. You're saying I should replace that with roxul wool insulation?


 Yes, go to Lowes and get a package of the Roxul Begreen recommended, he also provided a link on how to make a block off plate, I got my tin at Home Depot, it was under $10 a sheet.


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The insulation is only around the stoves firebox sandwiched in between the original masonry firebox.. You're saying I should replace that with roxul wool insulation?



Yes, fiberglass contains glue and other stuff that can outgas at the high temps of a stove. Roxul is the appropriate insulation for that application.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I currently have fiberglass insulation surrounding  stove  now except for on top. I was told that regular fiberglass insulation was ok to do so with. I believe it is r30  where would I get a stove top temp therm And where would I put it. I understand it is a  small insert but my house is not very big and it's not even heating my room that much


Something is wrong here if the stove wont even heat the room its in,no matter how small the stove. Try measuring the warm air temps coming out from the fans and compare with other members here. I suspect a wood problem. Less than ideal wood in  a too small insert is a recipe for a cold house.


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

Jags said:


> 20-22ga - whatever.  There is almost no force on it, so it can really be a light ga.  Tapcons - masonry nails, etc.  Seal with hi temp silicon around the outside edges.
> If you search here for blockoff plates it will provide reading material till the cows come home.


26 ga is much easier to work with and totally sufficient.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Something is wrong here if the stove wont even heat the room its in,no matter how small the stove. Try measuring the warm air temps coming out from the fans and compare with other members here. I suspect a wood problem. Less than ideal wood in  a too small insert is a recipe for a cold house.


Are there any open attic vents in the upstairs ceiling? Are there a lot of unsealed recessed ceiling lights?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> Are there any open attic vents in the upstairs ceiling? Are there a lot of unsealed recessed ceiling lights?



The room my stove is in is my living room I'd say 12x20 first floor the stairs are ff that room that lead up to second floor.. I don't have lights in that room an there are no vents .. The place I bought stove from said its definitely my wood.. But I do have some stuff that's seasoned and I can't get my room or house past 60 degrees


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

The heat is going somewhere. Maybe temporarily hang some plastic to block off the stairway and see if that makes a major difference.

Look for any window leaks upstairs. A neighbor had this same problem and we finally traced it down to his attic door. The gap at the bottom of the door was about 1/2". At .5 x 36" that turned out to be an 18 sq in hole.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> The heat is going somewhere. Maybe temporarily hang some plastic to block off the stairway and see if that makes a major difference.
> 
> Look for any window leaks upstairs. A neighbor had this same problem and we finally traced it down to his attic door. The gap at the bottom of the door was about 1/2".



Just replaced all windows in my house as well as exterior doors.. In my upstairs bedrooms there are two doors that lead to my crawl space ..  .. We keep our bedroom door open so he can get into that room


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

Check this thread out for proper burning technique. Lots of good advice in there:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fireplace-insert-burn-techniques-best-practices.117055/ 
Think about getting a moisture meter. Lots of places to get one from (local hardware store, internet etc.). This one is cheap but does the job: http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html
If you suspect it is the wood get some bundles of kiln dried stuff from the grocery store and do a burn with those. See if that helps.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Check this thread out for proper burning technique. Lots of good advice in there.
> Think about getting a moisture meter. Lots of places to get one from (local hardware store, internet etc.). This one is cheap but does the job: http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html
> If you suspect it is the wood get some bundles of kiln dried stuff from the grocery store and do a burn with those. See if that helps.


I tried that and guess what.. Nothing by hissing wood was definitely not dry


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

I've gotten the stove up to the 550's and room still at 60 maybe 62 where would all the heat  be going..


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## Jags (Nov 21, 2013)

begreen said:


> 26 ga is much easier to work with and totally sufficient.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/



Agreed - but you have seen how I build things.


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## begreen (Nov 21, 2013)

LOL Welded structural block-off plate?


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 21, 2013)

The question of where is all that heat going:

1. Turning water into water vapor requires lots of heat and goes with the vapor up the chimney

2. Until the blockoff plate is installed you are heating a lot of chimney air which may make it draft nice but doesn't help your room out

3. New windows and doors are great but do you have gaps in your insulation around the windows and doors, outlets etc? If its poorly insulated you're doing a good job of heating the outdoors

4. Finally you have some heat going into the room.  Remember radient heat does not heat the air as well as it heats the "stuff" it may take quite a while to get your room up to temperature and then it will be easier to maintain as the room does not cool until all the stuff cools.  It would be interesting to see what kind of temps you could have once you have run the stove through several cycles over about 24 hours.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

dmmoss51 said:


> The question of where is all that heat going:
> 
> 1. Turning water into water vapor requires lots of heat and goes with the vapor up the chimney
> 
> ...



Doors and windows are all sealed and foam insulated . We are not home enough to get stoce burning 24 hrs a day and when we r both times it's been 50 degrees or so and house was able to get toasty then but cold weather has been difficult to get past 60


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 21, 2013)

I think that time factor is something to look at then.  With a new appliance that you are still figuring out how to use I understand that leaving it unattended is not comfortable.  With my fresstanding stove, I get a good fire going when I get home from work, load it up again before bed, and my aging dog needs to go out early enough in the morning that its also a good time to reload the stove (or maybe the dog is just cold) and finally I do a full load before I go to work.

I'm comfortable with my operation and not worried about the stove doing its thing when no one is home.  Also the size of the loads I adjust so I can reload when I want to, not having to wait or try to reload on active flames.

If I only ran my stove fore three/four hours a night I would just start getting the temps I wanted and then it would be done.


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## weatherguy (Nov 21, 2013)

> 4. Finally you have some heat going into the room. Remember radient heat does not heat the air as well as it heats the "stuff" it may take quite a while to get your room up to temperature and then it will be easier to maintain as the room does not cool until all the stuff cools. It would be interesting to see what kind of temps you could have once you have run the stove through several cycles over about 24 hours.


 
This is a good point, takes a good 24 hours of constantly running my stove for the house to be comfortable.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

dmmoss51 said:


> I think that time factor is something to look at then.  With a new appliance that you are still figuring out how to use I understand that leaving it unattended is not comfortable.  With my fresstanding stove, I get a good fire going when I get home from work, load it up again before bed, and my aging dog needs to go out early enough in the morning that its also a good time to reload the stove (or maybe the dog is just cold) and finally I do a full load before I go to work.
> 
> I'm comfortable with my operation and not worried about the stove doing its thing when no one is home.  Also the size of the loads I adjust so I can reload when I want to, not having to wait or try to reload on active flames.
> 
> If I only ran my stove fore three/four hours a night I would just start getting the temps I wanted and then it would be done.


I don't mind running it while I'm not home the prob is when i go to work.. If I load it
Up before bed at 11 I can wake up at around 5.. There are some coals in the stove to get a fire goin again but it's cooled down a lot.. Then I load it back up before work and I won't get home for like 9 hours or so and there's really nothing left so I'm pretty much starting over again


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> This is a good point, takes a good 24 hours of constantly running my stove for the house to be comfortable.


How do u run it 24 hrs if u work?


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## weatherguy (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> How do u run it 24 hrs if u work?


 I get 10-12 hour burns but mines a little bigger than yours. It's going to take you a while to learn how to run the stove efficiently, I'm not familiar with your stove so I don't know what burn times you can expect to get optimally.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> I get 10-12 hour burns but mines a little bigger than yours. It's going to take you a while to learn how to run the stove efficiently, I'm not familiar with your stove so I don't know what burn times you can expect to get optimally.


 
There's  only a 7 hr burn time at maximum efficiency w my insert


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## Sully (Nov 21, 2013)

The door on my insert is always way hotter than any other spot I can check. It will be 650 on the door trim and 450 on too, with blower running in low.


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## Andy S. (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> We are not home enough to get stoce burning 24 hrs a day and when we r both times it's been 50 degrees or so and house was able to get toasty then but cold weather has been difficult to get past 60


I'm new to woodburning but may be able to add some perspective from my pellet burning in a horribly insulated and very drafty weekend house I have. The house is 1500 ft2 with the stove located on the first floor and most of the living done on the 2nd floor. I bought it with a useless old heat pump. I tried to use the stove as the sole source of heat but quickly learned that it would take me all weekend to get the house comfortable... just in time to leave for home. I ended up buying a couple of infrared space heaters for upstairs. Running together I can get the upstairs to 70* relatively quickly. Once that happens the stove is a beast at maintaining. In short, the stove takes forever to get me comfortable from a cold start but it fully capable of maintaining comfort with very little help. I'd get your place to temperature with your main source of heat and then see what your insert can do.


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## Charles1981 (Nov 21, 2013)

Even with semi-wet/wet wood if that stove is reading 500 it should be heating the main room regardless.

I agree you have to be losing that heat in massive quantities somewhere and likely it is just going straight up the chimney due to a poor installation.

1. Is your masonry chimney on the interior of your house or on the exterior? If it is exterior did they insulate the stainless liner? If not that is a problem as well. You can get away without an insulated liner if your masonry chimney is in the middle or more central to your home, but if it is sitting on the outside of your home you should have it insulated.

2. Fiberglass not appropriate. You should have Roxul stuffed at the bottom with a block off and Roxul stuffed at the top under the capped off portion WITH an insulated liner.

3. What is the radius of comfort for the insert? At 1-2 feet you should want to feel like you should move away from the stove because it is too hot especially when it is reading 500 (~110-115F). At 2-4 feet it should be 90-95F....and honestly in the stove room you should be able to be 10-12 feet away and still register a temperature of at least 85-86. If this situation isn't occurring that heat is most likely getting pumped straight up the chimney or your house has serious draft issues.

My opinion at least. I've burned plenty of not great wood. Regardless, with wet wood it will struggle to burn and the heat output will be less, but if your stove is 500 it should be outputting heat regardless just not nearly as efficiently and risking excessive creosote. Poorly seasoned wood sucks, but not this bad. At the least your stove room should be WARM.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Charles1981 said:


> Even with semi-wet/wet wood if that stove is reading 500 it should be heating the main room regardless.
> 
> I agree you have to be losing that heat in massive quantities somewhere and likely it is just going straight up the chimney due to a poor installation.
> 
> ...



The him net is exterior.. The chimney liner is. Not Insulated. My chimney guy said that it helps more for creosote build up then heat addition. .. We are going to Install a damper block off plate with the roxul insulation . We r running the stove right now and the thermometer on the door is reading 325 right now it's burning and venting nicely but how do I get it hotter?


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## Dix (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> The him net is exterior.. The chimney liner is. Not Insulated. My chimney guy said that it helps more for creosote build up then heat addition. .. We are going to Install a damper block off plate with the roxul insulation . We r running the stove right now and the thermometer on the door is reading 325 right now it's burning and venting nicely but how do I get it hotter?



How big of  fire do you have in the insert? 3, 4, 5 splits?? Is it blazing? Have the secondaries kicked in? How are your air control (s) set? My  PE (insert) cruises at 700F -  750F on the upper right corner of the front. Interior masonry chimney pretty much centrally located in the house.  Heats 1400 SF with ease.

I also agree with the wood / seasoned issue. 

Take a pic and let us see what's going on if you can.

Welcome to the forums!!


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> How big of  fire do you have in the insert? 3, 4, 5 splits?? Is it blazing? Have the secondaries kicked in? How are your air control (s) set? My  PE (insert) cruises at 700F -  750F on the upper right corner of the front. Interior masonry chimney pretty much centrally located in the house.  Heats 1400 SF with ease.
> 
> I also agree with the wood / seasoned issue.
> 
> ...


What do u mean by splits and secondaries sorry I'm not to familiar with the lingo.. Fire is going pretty well right now have it at around 375 and rising  .. It's burning pretty quickly with the damper fully open


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## Charles1981 (Nov 21, 2013)

Not sure 375 is less than impressive though for stove temperature. If it cruises for a few hours above 500 that is one thing. If it only cruises at 350-400 and struggles to reach that temperature that could be a wood problem.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

400 and climbing


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Unfortunately all I have is a stovepipe thermometer and I don't know where else to put it to get a good reading  .. I'm sitting about 20 inches away and the stove is Hott as hell ... Do I throw the damper down a little bit or do I continue to let it burn like crazy


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## Dix (Nov 21, 2013)

The pieces of firewood are splits.

The secondaries are the dancing flames that come when you have a good fire going and shut down the air intake (s) to get the most heat out of the loaded firewood.

Pic of my PE. Note the dancing flames up top.  This is secondaries starting to be in action. Also note the air control (bottom the the stove, it's the lever) is more than 1/2 way shut down (I was working on a coal bed with this fire), hence engaging the secondaries. 

Also note the thermometer position over the door.

I'm not familiar with the controls on the Jotul, but the basics  have to be similar.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> The pieces of firewood are splits.
> 
> The secondaries are the dancing flames that come when you have a good fire going and shut down the air intake (s) to get the most heat out of the loaded firewood.
> 
> ...


Should I try positioning the thermometer somewhere else.. I just reached 500 degrees .. I've used more small split pieces when should I add bigger pieces/ lower damper


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## Dix (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Should I try positioning the thermometer somewhere else.. I just reached 500 degrees .. I've used more small split pieces when should I add bigger pieces/ lower damper



If your at 500F, I'd shut the air down 1/2 way and see what happens. You might hear some pinging and such from the stove, as the temp _*will  *_go up. 

Have you been running this with the damper/air wide open all of this time???


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> If your at 500F, I'd shut the air down 1/2 way and see what happens. You might hear some pinging and such from the stove, as the temp _*will  *_go up.
> 
> Have you been running this with the damper/air wide open all of this time???


No I haven't jut don't know much about how to work w damper so don't know when to open close it etc.. When should I add wood/ bigger pcs


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 21, 2013)

Getting the secondaries firing is important as it is going to harvest more energy out of the wood.   These are burning the smoke which is otherwise carrying energy up the chimney that could otherwise be heating your room... plus more smoke going up chimney = more creosote.


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

Try it this way: 

See that you have a good bed of hot coals and a warm stove before loading it for the night. Rake all the coals to the front of the firebox. Put as many splits as you can fit in maybe leaving only a 1 inch gap to the burn tubes in the top. Let the wood catch fire and start a good burn, then close door. Leave the air all the way open until the wood is fully engulfed then start to stepwise close the air, maybe a quarter every 5 min. Look at the fire, close until the flames become "lazy". Then wait a few minutes, then close again some and so on. When the air is completely closed you should have nice secondary flames in the top of the firebox and the stove top should read 500 F to 700 F for most stoves. 

In the morning put on a bunch of smaller splits in filling half to 2/3 of the firebox. Get a good fire going for maybe 10 minutes then start to stepwise close the air as above. Leave the air open maybe 10% to 20% (but not all the way once you have a good fire) to get a quick hot fire going; that should get the stove and the house back up fast. Once that fire dies down fill the stove up again similar to what I described for an overnight burn and let it cruise during the day. I manage to do a quick, hot fire in the morning (~2 h), two fill-ups during the day (~6 h each) and one overnight burn (~10 h) with nice dry hardwood.

If you leave the air open all/most of the time you let a lot of the heat escape up the chimney.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Try it this way:
> 
> See that you have a good bed of hot coals and a warm stove before loading it for the night. Rake all the coals to the front of the firebox. Put as many splits as you can fit in maybe leaving only a 1 inch gap to the burn tubes in the top. Let the wood catch fire and start a good burn, then close door. Leave the air all the way open until the wood is fully engulfed then start to stepwise close the air, maybe a quarter every 5 min. Look at the fire, close until the flames become "lazy". Then wait a few minutes, then close again some and so on. When the air is completely closed you should have nice secondary flames in the top of the firebox and the stove top should read 500 F to 700 F for most stoves.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot man I appreciate u helpin me out with this... Stoves at around 500 and temp inside room is only around 62


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## Charles1981 (Nov 21, 2013)

Do you have cathedral ceilings? Ceiling Fans? How far away from the stove can you be and not feel comfortably warm anymore?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 21, 2013)

Charles1981 said:


> Do you have cathedral ceilings? Ceiling Fans? How far away from the stove can you be and not feel comfortably warm anymore?


No my ceilings are around 7 ft.. No ceiling fans and once you're about 5 feet or so you can't feel it anymore


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## Grisu (Nov 21, 2013)

Does not make sense. I am starting to question your thermometer. Is the blower running? 

I would suggest to remove the surround tomorrow when the stove is cold and run it a day or two without it to see where the heat is going. You can then also place the thermometer on the stovetop and get more accurate readings.


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## Charles1981 (Nov 21, 2013)

Something ain't right and that heat has to be going somewhere and its clear it isn't going into your room. But I have no suggestions and am at a loss. Those more knowledgeable will hopefully have some good input.


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## Dix (Nov 21, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> No I haven't jut don't know much about how to work w damper so don't know when to open close it etc.. When should I add wood/ bigger pcs



Have you been running this stove with the air control/damper all the way open all the time?? *I'm asking again*

Read your owners manual for what the air controls are, it should be in there.

If you are not controlling the air with a decent fire, you are losing mega heat up the chimney. I betcha that's where it's going.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 21, 2013)

I think you should try some dry pine in that stove. If THAT dont put out the heat nothin will.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> Have you been running this stove with the air control/damper all the way open all the time?? *I'm asking again*
> 
> Read your owners manual for what the air controls are, it should be in there.
> 
> If you are not controlling the air with a decent fire, you are losing mega heat up the chimney. I betcha that's where it's going.



Going to hardware store to get stuff to make damper block off plate ... Just found out that my liner is 5.5 inches.. Manual calls for a 6 installer said that that's not an issue and he does 5.5's all the time after work I'm going to run the stove with the surround panel off. Would the 5.5 make me be losing that much heat? My installer says no


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Isn't the heat Lways going to escape anyway since the liner is open .. Meaning that like a regular fireplace you can open and close the damper shutting off the chimney.. The chimney liner is a straight shot up the chimney never being closed off I'm assuming that's how it's supposed to be but wouldn't that make you lose heat?


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## Grisu (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Going to hardware store to get stuff to make damper block off plate ... Just found out that my liner is 5.5 inches.. Manual calls for a 6 installer said that that's not an issue and he does 5.5's all the time after work I'm going to run the stove with the surround panel off. Would the 5.5 make me be losing that much heat? My installer says no



A 5.5 liner reduces the draft which may make it harder to get a fire going and the stove up to temp. It is also possible that you cannot close the air control fully. How tall is your chimney? Good draft also depends on chimney length. 

Nevertheless, I am not sure if that is your problem; I have the feeling you have not really tried to run your stove properly. See my post above; try it that way and post the results here.


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## Grisu (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Isn't the heat Lways going to escape anyway since the liner is open .. Meaning that like a regular fireplace you can open and close the damper shutting off the chimney.. The chimney liner is a straight shot up the chimney never being closed off I'm assuming that's how it's supposed to be but wouldn't that make you lose heat?



A chimney damper reduces the flow of the exhaust gases going OUT of the stove. The air control (unfortunately also sometimes called damper) reduces the air going INTO the stove. A modern stove like your Jotul has an air control, not a chimney damper.

At the beginning of the burn with the air fully open you should see a lot of air rushing in above the door, going down the glass and fan the fire at the bottom-front of the firebox. Since the airflow is really high a lot of heat will also go up your chimney. Thus, once the fire is established you want to reduce the amount of air coming in by stepwise closing down the air control. The air coming in over the door (primary air) will be reduced. On the other hand, air will come in through a secondary port feeding the burn tubes (baffle) that are in the top of your firebox. The heat in the firebox will force the wood to release its combustible material as gases that rise to the top, there those gases will mix with oxygen supplied by the burn tubes and you should see flames coming out of the holes there. Due to the restricted airflow 70% to 80% of the heat generated by these "secondaries" will be retained in the stove. Only a small part will go up the flue and take the exhaust gases with it. 

When you start closing down the air take a look at the top of the firebox and see if you can see flames there. They may seem to come out of the burn tubes.


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

Block off plate and Roxul not standard fiber glass insulation (roxul is way more fire resistant). I bet a good quantity of you hot air is going up your flue to heat your chimney, it needs to be kept around the stove. As I understand inserts need very good insulation around them to work properly and give good heat output.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Block off plate and Roxul not standard fiber glass insulation (roxul is way more fire resistant). I bet a good quantity of you hot air is going up your flue to heat your chimney, it needs to be kept around the stove. As I understand inserts need very good insulation around them to work properly and give good heat output.


That's what I think as well.. So you think the damper blocking plate with the roxul insulation will make a difference anywhere else I should place the insulation


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## Rickb (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> That's what I think as well.. So you think the damper blocking plate with the roxul insulation will make a difference anywhere else I should place the insulation




Well it sure wont hurt anything.....

Also these stoves almost work backwards from what you would think.  The more you turn them down the hotter they actually get.  When you close the main air the draft causes more secondary air to come in the burn tubes.  That secondary burn is what really gets the unit heated up.


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> That's what I think as well.. So you think the damper blocking plate with the roxul insulation will make a difference anywhere else I should place the insulation


I think that this is a good start, I have read of people stuffing the top of the chimney as well but I cannot comment on that. Can you post a picture of the stove with this thermometer on the door? I would pick up a magnetic therm from lowes or hd  for a second opinion also.



Rickb said:


> Well it sure wont hurt anything.....
> 
> Also these stoves almost work backwards from what you would think.  The more you turn them down the hotter they actually get.  When you close the main air the draft causes more secondary air to come in the burn tubes.  That secondary burn is what really gets the unit heated up.


I agree with this also.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Reckless said:


> I think that this is a good start, I have read of people stuffing the top of the chimney as well but I cannot comment on that. Can you post a picture of the stove with this thermometer on the door? I would pick up a magnetic therm from lowes or hd  for a second opinion also.
> 
> 
> I agree with this also.


I am at work right now I had posted a picture last night with the stove going and the thermometer placed on the top of the door..


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

I need to figure out how to stop the heat from going up and start going out hahaha cause clearly that's what's happening


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 22, 2013)

On the burn times thing:

I had a fire going all night Wednesday night, My wife was home yesterday so kept the fire going all day.  Our home is 1776 ft/sq and we had temperatures ranging from 77 in the stove room to 68 in the furthest bedroom while outdoor temps were 40s during the day.  About 9 pm last night I decided not to load up overnight as we were not expected to get much colder outside and the house was plenty warm, especially for sleeping.  I did rake the coals forward and get them closer together for a more complete and final burn in front of the air inlet.  This morning although the fire was out, stove room 72 degrees, main floor 70 degrees and leaving for work.  This is because everything in the house had time to warm up and takes time to cool.  No sense burning more wood if its comfortable.  I will have a cooler house this evening when it's time for a new fire.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

dmmoss51 said:


> On the burn times thing:
> 
> I had a fire going all night Wednesday night, My wife was home yesterday so kept the fire going all day.  Our home is 1776 ft/sq and we had temperatures ranging from 77 in the stove room to 68 in the furthest bedroom while outdoor temps were 40s during the day.  About 9 pm last night I decided not to load up overnight as we were not expected to get much colder outside and the house was plenty warm, especially for sleeping.  I did rake the coals forward and get them closer together for a more complete and final burn in front of the air inlet.  This morning although the fire was out, stove room 72 degrees, main floor 70 degrees and leaving for work.  This is because everything in the house had time to warm up and takes time to cool.  No sense burning more wood if its comfortable.  I will have a cooler house this evening when it's time for a new fire.


I would be happy with 70 in stove room and 68 everywhere else.. I can't seem to get my stove room to a 70 degree temperature .. Stays at around 62


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I would be happy with 70 in stove room and 68 everywhere else.. I can't seem to get my stove room to a 70 degree temperature .. Stays at around 62


If your stove cannot even heat the room its in, it will never heat your entire house. Either your wood is not dry,or your stove is malfunctioning. No matter how small the stove ,it is certainly rated for more Sf than the room its in.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> If you stove cannot even heat the room its in, it will never heat your entire house. Either your wood is not dry,or your stove is malfunctioning. No matter how small the stove ,it is certainly rated for more Sf than the room its in.


Exactly... How would you tell if the stove would be malfunctioning.. Wouldn't I be getting smoke In the room ?


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## Grisu (Nov 22, 2013)

I would get an IR thermometer. We just had another user who could not get his house warm and we were looking at all kind of reasons. It turned out to be a faulty stove thermometer; the user was just not running his stove at the temps he was thinking. An IR thermometer will allow you to check different spots on your insert. Btw. The location of your current one on the door frame is less than ideal. You want to put it at least on the stove body.


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## dmmoss51 (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I would be happy with 70 in stove room and 68 everywhere else.. I can't seem to get my stove room to a 70 degree temperature .. Stays at around 62


 

That's my point, I achieved that after running the stove for about 36 hours straight.  It's not exactly your setup as I have a freestander. It takes time for the heat to radiate.  If ,as others have suggested, you're not getting as warm as the thermometer says, then it's going to take even longer.  And if you're losing heat up the chimney it may never warm up.  Note by chimney we are refereing to the air space between your liner and the masonry.  If it's not blocked off with insulation as described that's where a lot of room heat is going.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Yeah I figured that.. I wih they sold smaller ones due to how my stove is made that particular therm. Doesn't it in spots tht are on the stove itself


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## Dave A. (Nov 22, 2013)

The air adjustment is a tricky thing.  To get the fire started and going, you need as much air as possible, and usually that means having the door open to keep it from dying out. But once the fire's established and you can see that cutting back the air has no effect on the fire (i.e. turning down the air does not cut back the flames) it's good to do that, since you then are keeping more air in the stove and room versus sending it up the flue.

But beginners (especially) need to be careful not to cut back the air too much or too soon, it's very easy to smother out a fire, so until you're sure what you're doing, it may be safer to err on the side of a little too much air, rather than not enough, especially if you want to get your stove as hot as possible (safely).

Still, it is important to realize that you are burning most efficiently (getting the max heat out of the wood into your room) when the air is cut back to closed (or almost closed -- depending on your draft situation -- you don't want to be seeing black smoke coming out of the flue, which is the best indicator that you need more air).  So it may help when you are learning, to make a few checks on the chimney outside after the air adjustments.


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

The roxul and block off plate should make a difference, I think my room was 3 degrees hotter after I installed mine so you definitely lose some going up through the opening.
Have we determined that your wood is dry enough? How long seasoned, what species, sorry if answered already I'm losing track of these threads.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> The roxul and block off plate should make a difference, I think my room was 3 degrees hotter after I installed mine so you definitely lose some going up through the opening.
> Have we determined that your wood is dry enough? How long seasoned, what species, sorry if answered already I'm losing track of these threads.


I have not determined is wood is dry enough yet... It's mostly oak at least 9 or 10 months old


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I have not determined is wood is dry enough yet... It's mostly oak at least 9 or 10 months old


 OK, we just discovered 90% of your problem, can you get some drier wood somewhere else? How about some envi blocks to mix in. I've tested oak after 2 full years of drying and still be in the mid 20's, I usually wont burn oak for 3 years.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> OK, we just discovered 90% of your problem, can you get some drier wood somewhere else? How about some envi blocks to mix in. I've tested oak after 2 full years of drying and still be in the mid 20's, I usually wont burn oak for 3 years.


I'm trying to find some


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

Rickb said:


> Well it sure wont hurt anything.....
> 
> Also these stoves almost work backwards from what you would think.  The more you turn them down the hotter they actually get.  When you close the main air the draft causes more secondary air to come in the burn tubes.  That secondary burn is what really gets the unit heated up.





Bulldogmoose said:


> I'm trying to find some


Buy some kiln dried firewood bags from a local gas station or grocery store and see if that makes a difference. 9-10 month old oak C\S\S is still 14-24 months away from being ready.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Buy some kiln dried firewood bags from a local gas station or grocery store and see if that makes a difference. 9-10 month old oak C\S\S is still 14-24 months away from being ready.


All I really have is oak I believe


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> All I really have is oak I believe


 Where have you been looking? There is a place in Douglas on the Mass/RI border that sells kiln dried, not sure of the price but I can check for you, you can also pick up the uglies for cheaper but you need a truck, they don't deliver that stuff, just the good stuff.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

weatherguy said:


> Where have you been looking? There is a place in Douglas on the Mass/RI border that sells kiln dried, not sure of the price but I can check for you, you can also pick up the uglies for cheaper but you need a truck, they don't deliver that stuff, just the good stuff.


I'm skeptical to buy from a tree company bc whenever they say their wood is seasoned it never is


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

Kiln dried is guaranteed to be burnable.  The oak you have now won't even be close to ready to burn until the winter of 15/16.  Enviro bricks, kiln dried wood and scrounging pallets are your best option.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

BCC_Burner said:


> Kiln dried is guaranteed to be burnable.  The oak you have now won't even be close to ready to burn until the winter of 15/16.  Enviro bricks, kiln dried wood and scrounging pallets are your best option.


Yeah we'll I bought some kiln dried in the bag and it did nothing but hiss so in skeptical about it


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Yeah we'll I bought some kiln dried in the bag and it did nothing but hiss so in skeptical about it


That is strange, I practically lived off kiln dried bags last year when I didnt have any dry wood. Try a different store.


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## Rickb (Nov 22, 2013)

You can also use lumber scraps.  I am still burning 2x4 scraps from finishing the basement last year.  2x4, 4x4, 2x6, 2x10 anything not treated or glued work.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

Trying to find sheet metal and high temp sealant is harder then I thought


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## Newschool (Nov 22, 2013)

Reckless said:


> That is strange, I practically lived off kiln dried bags last year when I didnt have any dry wood. Try a different store.



I bought some 'kiln' dried last year from the grocery store and it hissed like crazy when burnt. Split a piece and it was 33% on the MM. I don't think there is much regulation in this area...


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> All I really have is oak I believe


Oak is going to take the longest time to season. It's great firewood but it need 2-3 years to completely dry out.

If your kiln dried bag of wood was wet, let the store know. Get your money back and help other customers avoid getting ripped off.


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Trying to find sheet metal and high temp sealant is harder then I thought


Do you have an Ace Hardware store near you?


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> Oak is going to take the longest time to season. It's great firewood but it need 2-3 years to completely dry out.
> 
> If your kiln dried bag of wood was wet, let the store know. Get your money back and help other customers avoid getting ripped off.


Weight is usually a dead give away with kiln dried it should be SUPER lite in weight.


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Do you have an Ace Hardware store near you?



Just FYI, out here, Ace Hardware does not carry anything even remotely related to wood burning.  I was told at multiple stores that they can no longer sell stove pipe or high temp sealant for "liability reasons."  Which seems strange in a state where you can basically do whatever you please and then tell the government to get bent if they don't like it.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

I have some mil PAC black at home... Ingot screws the roxul r15 insulation and 22 gauge weld steel for the sheet metal is that good? Anything else I need


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2013)

If you have the tools to work with that steel gauge that should be fine. Tapcons work well for anchoring to brick. You can use regular silicone for sealing to the brick. The milpac would just be for around the liner.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> If you have the tools to work with that steel gauge that should be fine. Tapcons work well for anchoring to brick. You can use regular silicone for sealing to the brick. The milpac would just be for around the liner.


Don't you need a high temp sealant though?


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2013)

No, not for the sides of the damper seal. Regular silicone is rated at 4-500F. But there's no harm using the milpac if you want to.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> No, not for the sides of the damper seal. Regular silicone is rated at 4-500F. But there's no harm using the milpac if you want to.


Ok cool


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## Reckless (Nov 22, 2013)

BCC_Burner said:


> Just FYI, out here, Ace Hardware does not carry anything even remotely related to wood burning.  I was told at multiple stores that they can no longer sell stove pipe or high temp sealant for "liability reasons."  Which seems strange in a state where you can basically do whatever you please and then tell the government to get bent if they don't like it.


WOW mine has EVERYTHING and if you look through the stuff you can find the mismarked ones from stock that was never rotated


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

Lucky!  It seems like this area is not do-it-yourself friendly for some reason, especially when it comes to heating with wood.  It took me 3 weeks and 4 stove shops to find 2 45 degree elbows and a slip connector.  

I think it may have something to do with the often very bad inversions the valleys around here experience.  They definitely discourage heating with wood here, but if people put the time and effort into burning dry wood and burning it well, it can be done with minimal impact, at least compared to the refineries, gas wells and open pit mines around here.  

But I digress.  Best of luck with your block off plate BDM.  You definitely need to experiment with burning some truly dry wood as well.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 22, 2013)

BCC_Burner said:


> Lucky!  It seems like this area is not do-it-yourself friendly for some reason, especially when it comes to heating with wood.  It took me 3 weeks and 4 stove shops to find 2 45 degree elbows and a slip connector.
> 
> I think it may have something to do with the often very bad inversions the valleys around here experience.  They definitely discourage heating with wood here, but if people put the time and effort into burning dry wood and burning it well, it can be done with minimal impact, at least compared to the refineries, gas wells and open pit mines around here.
> 
> But I digress.  Best of luck with your block off plate BDM.  You definitely need to experiment with burning some truly dry wood as well.


I just wish I had some truly dry wood to burn and have some fun with it


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## BCC_Burner (Nov 22, 2013)

Try to find some pallets or untreated lumber scraps.  Also look for loads of pine that you can cut, split and stack this winter.  Soft woods like that only take 6-12 months to season once split, so you will have dry wood for sure next winter.  Pine should be cheap/free around you too, given it's (unfounded) bad reputation, particularly in the northeast.


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2013)

If you can get some Hearthwise logs give them a try. You will only need 3-4 at a time.

*Address:* 44 Mead St. Leominster MA 01453
*Telephone:* 978.479.0925
*Website:* http://www.hearthwise.com/page/page/506662.htm

also sold in CT at:
*Retailer:* My Pellet Store, LLC
*Address:* 1654 King Street Enfield, CT 060682
*Telephone:* 860.265.7944
*Website:* www.mypelletstore.com

*Massachusetts (Western): Diane LaValley*
llfence3@yahoo.com
L and L Fence Company, Inc.
45 State Rd.
Whately, MA 01093
Phone/Fax: (413) 665-4981
www.landlfence.net


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## begreen (Nov 22, 2013)

And here is some RI guaranteed dry , kiln dried wood near Warwick:

Verrier Tree Service
 753 Nooseneck Hill Rd West Greenwich, RI 02817 
http://www.verriertree.com
*401-397-3942*


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

Maybe check these guy's out, I'd get a moisture meter before I bought any

http://providence.craigslist.org/grd/4208157836.html

http://providence.craigslist.org/grd/4200501272.html


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

Couple more

http://providence.craigslist.org/hsh/4207498840.html

http://providence.craigslist.org/for/4197977383.html


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## mfglickman (Nov 22, 2013)

Bio bricks are your friend this year. Also post a shameless beg on Craigslist for some seasoned wood - someone with a surplus may be willing to sell you some of theirs, or trade you some lighter weight stuff (maple, ash, birch) for some of your unseasoned oak. I found someone our second winter whose house was being foreclosed. They sold me their seasoned wood for a song, they were damned if they were going to let the bank put it in a dumpster.


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## weatherguy (Nov 22, 2013)

mfglickman said:


> Bio bricks are your friend this year. Also post a shameless beg on Craigslist for some seasoned wood - someone with a surplus may be willing to sell you some of theirs, or trade you some lighter weight stuff (maple, ash, birch) for some of your unseasoned oak. I found someone our second winter whose house was being foreclosed. They sold me their seasoned wood for a song, they were damned if they were going to let the bank put it in a dumpster.


 I've picked up a few cords that way too, foreclosures are down last couple years I haven't got any lately. But you make a good point, if you put some time into it you can usually dig up some seasoned wood somehow somewhere.


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## RSNovi (Nov 22, 2013)

I have the same situation with my Jotul c350.  I can only increase room temp about 2 degrees when it is at max temp.

I can feel radiant heat, but air temp isn't changed much.  I wanted mine for only supplemental heat, but I thought it would throw way more heat.  I can keep the thermostat set a couple degrees lower and burn the insert to make it comfortable.

I stuffed roxul around the liner.  I can't put a block off plate without removing the stove because it is so tight.  Also the liner was such a tight fit down the existing chimney I don't expect a lot if heat going up.  This is all installed in a ZC fireplace.


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## Hogwildz (Nov 22, 2013)

RSNovi said:


> I have the same situation with my Jotul c350.  I can only increase room temp about 2 degrees when it is at max temp.
> 
> I can feel radiant heat, but air temp isn't changed much.  I wanted mine for only supplemental heat, but I thought it would throw way more heat.  I can keep the thermostat set a couple degrees lower and burn the insert to make it comfortable.
> 
> I stuffed roxul around the liner.  I can't put a block off plate without removing the stove because it is so tight.  Also the liner was such a tight fit down the existing chimney I don't expect a lot if heat going up.  This is all installed in a ZC fireplace.


You would be amazed at how much heat can go up along side that liner and be absorbed through the masonry and released the the great out doors. Insulation does not stop air flow as a block off plate does.


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## Grisu (Nov 22, 2013)

Great looking install, though. When it is ZC fireplace what kind of chimney do you have? And is there no warm air coming out with the blower?


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## RSNovi (Nov 23, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Great looking install, though. When it is ZC fireplace what kind of chimney do you have? And is there no warm air coming out with the blower?



Thanks. I am definitely really happy with how it looks which takes a little sting away.

My existing chimney is an 8" triple wall air air cooled pipe.  An insulated 6" liner was installed.

Hot air does blow out, but the fans don't seem to move all that much air.  Standing right in front of the stove it is nice and warm.


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## RSNovi (Nov 23, 2013)

Hogwildz said:


> You would be amazed at how much heat can go up along side that liner and be absorbed through the masonry and released the the great out doors. Insulation does not stop air flow as a block off plate does.



I agree that my setup might not be ideal.  I think I would have to pull the liner up to be able to pull the stove out based on what I saw when it was installed.  That has stopped me from pulling it out and trying to make a plate.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 23, 2013)

RSNovi said:


> Thanks. I am definitely really happy with how it looks which takes a little sting away.
> 
> My existing chimney is an 8" triple wall air air cooled pipe.  An insulated 6" liner was installed.
> 
> Hot air does blow out, but the fans don't seem to move all that much air.  Standing right in front of the stove it is nice and warm.


That's the exact same thing that's happening to me with my 350 insert... Wednesday should be the test hopefully the damper block off plate will do the trick... In the mean time I need to find some good dry wood


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## RSNovi (Nov 23, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> That's the exact same thing that's happening to me with my 350 insert... Wednesday should be the test hopefully the damper block off plate will do the trick... In the mean time I need to find some good dry wood



Please report back after Wednesday.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 24, 2013)

Does anyone know what the heat penalty for an insert is ,over a regular wood stove?


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## Grisu (Nov 24, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Does anyone know what teh heat penalty for an insert is ,over a regular wood stove?



Why do you think there should be any? I my opinion there is almost none for an interior fireplace with block-off plate and insulation above it. A fireplace insert with exterior chimney will lose heat out the back but there will probably be a heat loss anyway even if you heat with your furnace. That is why stuffing insulation around your insert may help in that case.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 24, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Why do you think there should be any? I my opinion there is almost none for an interior fireplace with block-off plate and insulation above it. A fireplace insert with exterior chimney will lose heat out the back but there will probably be a heat loss anyway even if you heat with your furnace. That is why stuffing insulation around your insert may help in that case.


Reason i ask is,I dont hear members here saying that  their very small wood stove wont even heat  the room that its in. On of my stoves is very small and i can heat 4 rooms up from 40 Deg to 70 in a few hours and the place is only partially insulated so far. In the case of the insert all the heat you get from the 2 sides the back and the top is totally dependent on the fans so im thinking there some penalty there.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 24, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Reason i ask is,I dont hear members here saying that  their very small wood stove wont even heat  the room that its in. On of my stoves is very small and i can heat 4 rooms up from 40 Deg to 70 in a few hours and the place is only partially insulated so far. In the case of the insert all the heat you get from the 2 sides the back and the top is totally dependent on the fans so im thinking there some penalty there.


That's why I'm hoping the blocking plate with the insulation is going to work. If that's not the case we can narrow it down to being the wood


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## Grisu (Nov 24, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Reason i ask is,I dont hear members here saying that  their very small wood stove wont even heat  the room that its in. On of my stoves is very small and i can heat 4 rooms up from 40 Deg to 70 in a few hours and the place is only partially insulated so far. In the case of the insert all the heat you get from the 2 sides the back and the top is totally dependent on the fans so im thinking there some penalty there.



If the heat from the stove will not go out it will warm up the masonry which will slowly release it then. The question is only where to. The back of my interior fireplace gets nicely warm during the day to the point that I was checking if our radiator in the stairwell was turned on. If the back goes out to the yard, then you surely will have some heat loss. The other place the heat can go is up. For a stove with a stovepipe it will stay in the room. For an insert with a liner it can also go around the liner up the chimney IF there is no block-off plate. Hence, there is no "heating penalty" just because you have an insert. There is a penalty for letting the heat of it escape due to missing insulation or lack of air-sealing. 

I actually love my insert in my interior fireplace. The masonry acts as a huge heat sink radiating the heat back into the room hours after the stove went cold (Take that, soapstone! ). On the other hand, I do not expect the insert to throw plenty of heat within an hour after lighting a fire although the blower kind of helps.


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## weatherguy (Nov 24, 2013)

Grisu said:


> If the heat from the stove will not go out it will warm up the masonry which will slowly release it then. The question is only where to. The back of my interior fireplace gets nicely warm during the day to the point that I was checking if our radiator in the stairwell was turned on. If the back goes out to the yard, then you surely will have some heat loss. The other place the heat can go is up. For a stove with a stovepipe it will stay in the room. For an insert with a liner it can also go around the liner up the chimney IF there is no block-off plate. Hence, there is no "heating penalty" just because you have an insert. There is a penalty for letting the heat of it escape due to missing insulation or lack of air-sealing.
> 
> I actually love my insert in my interior fireplace. The masonry acts as a huge heat sink radiating the heat back into the room hours after the stove went cold (Take that, soapstone! ). On the other hand, I do not expect the insert to throw plenty of heat within an hour after lighting a fire although the blower kind of helps.


 Mine does the same thing, all the stone in the fireplace heats up and radiates for quite a while. That's why I hate to let it go cold in the winter even if we have 1 warm day, takes a while to get the stone heated up again.


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## stejus (Nov 24, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> They did not install a damper block off plate. My installer said because I have a full stainless steel chimney liner I did not need one because at the top of the chimney it is capped off .



The first year of buring I had the same setup.  When they installed the liner, it was too late in the season to insulate the liner.  So, bascially, what was happening is a lot of the heat went right up the chimney because the clay tiles act as a heat sink.   The next year they came back and blocked off the bottom and poured in insulation from the top.  It made a big difference.  Oh, I sure you know, good seasoned wood also makes a big difference.   It took a while and some land clearing, but I have a three year seasoning area before I burn it.  Start planning now so you can get you wood supply seasoned properly.   You'll get there in due time.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 24, 2013)

Grisu said:


> I actually love my insert in my interior fireplace. The masonry acts as a huge heat sink radiating the heat back into the room hours after the stove went cold (Take that, soapstone! ). On the other hand, I do not expect the insert to throw plenty of heat within an hour after lighting a fire although the blower kind of helps.


I actually like the look of an insert much better than a regular wood stove. The harman and several other newer models are downright gorgeous.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 25, 2013)

stejus said:


> The first year of buring I had the same setup.  When they installed the liner, it was too late in the season to insulate the liner.  So, bascially, what was happening is a lot of the heat went right up the chimney because the clay tiles act as a heat sink.   The next year they came back and blocked off the bottom and poured in insulation from the top.  It made a big difference.  Oh, I sure you know, good seasoned wood also makes a big difference.   It took a while and some land clearing, but I have a three year seasoning area before I burn it.  Start planning now so you can get you wood supply seasoned properly.   You'll get there in due time.


So they put roxul insulation at the cap of your chimney as well as put the block off plate in? Did you end up insulating the liner as well?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 25, 2013)

I found tree company does 16 foot log length about year year and a half old 350 for 3 cords.. What do u think? Does that sound about right.. I don't mind splitting it myself I just wanna make sure it is seasoned  which he said it was


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## darkz71 (Nov 25, 2013)

I think it depends on the wood. Also,uncut, unsplit would not be same as cut, split, stacked for that amount of time. I think finding truly dry wood is hard. When I was looking this fall dealers all say it's seasoned, but if you asked specifics the best I could find was one year and some of that stuff dry while some is less dry mostly because it's mixed.


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## Grisu (Nov 25, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> I found tree company does 16 foot log length about year year and a half old 350 for 3 cords.. What do u think? Does that sound about right.. I don't mind splitting it myself I just wanna make sure it is seasoned  which he said it was



Unsplit wood does not really season. I had branches about 2 inch diameter, 18" to 20" long for two years in the woodstack and those were the ones still hissing. The larger splits around it burned just fine and came up 15% to 20% with the MM. However, it is easy to split hardwood delivered, $117 for a cord is not that bad. You just need to cut, split and stack it for a year or two before burning it. Does he maybe sell some "unseasoned" logs for even less? It would be at least a quick way to get you started before you can find some scrounged wood.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 25, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Unsplit wood does not really season. I had branches about 2 inch diameter, 18" to 20" long for two years in the woodstack and those were the ones still hissing. The larger splits around it burned just fine and came up 15% to 20% with the MM. However, it is easy to split hardwood delivered, $117 for a cord is not that bad. You just need to cut, split and stack it for a year or two before burning it. Does he maybe sell some "unseasoned" logs for even less? It would be at least a quick way to get you started before you can find some scrounged wood.


Still no luck on tr scrounged wood... ESP that's guaranteed seasoned.. I wanna get the log length bc evening it isn't seasoned ican split it mysel and have it down the road .. Either way it's lookin slim to find some good quality seasoned wood at an affordable price.. Kiln dried is 350 a cord delivered I just really don't wanna spend tht for one cord


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## begreen (Nov 25, 2013)

Did you contact the kiln dried wood supplier in Greenwich, RI? http://www.verriertree.com

Locally $350 for seasoned wood at this time of year is normal. Get a couple cords and save a bit on the extra delivery.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 25, 2013)

begreen said:


> Did you contact the kiln dried wood supplier in Greenwich, RI? http://www.verriertree.com
> 
> Locally $350 for seasoned wood at this time of year is normal.


Yeah Verrier is 375.. Billy's firewood has kiln dried for 350


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## weatherguy (Nov 25, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> Yeah Verrier is 375.. Billy's firewood has kiln dried for 350


 
None of those craiglist guys panned out ?


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## stejus (Nov 25, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> So they put roxul insulation at the cap of your chimney as well as put the block off plate in? Did you end up insulating the liner as well?



Go to my signiture and follow my install link.  Towards the end you can see what happened.  They plugged the bottom of the smoke shelf and poured in insulation from the top. My clay tiles were to small to install liner with wrapped insulation so the pour in was my only option.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

Grisu said:


> Unsplit wood does not really season. I had branches about 2 inch diameter, 18" to 20" long for two years in the woodstack and those were the ones still hissing. The larger splits around it burned just fine and came up 15% to 20% with the MM. However, it is easy to split hardwood delivered, $117 for a cord is not that bad. You just need to cut, split and stack it for a year or two before burning it. Does he maybe sell some "unseasoned" logs for even less? It would be at least a quick way to get you started before you can find some scrounged wood.


Put the block off plate in today wih the roxul insulation .. Started burning can see a big difference with the blower pressure... It smoked up the house a little bit but I'm assuming that's from the heat trying to cure th sealant.. Will keep u posted about how it works


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

Added some more wood and got fire goin nice only problem is house instantly got smoked out even with door being closed and could see smoke coming from behind surround.. Don't know of that's from the sealant or what.. Positive that liner is connect properly ?


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2013)

Does it smell like wood smoke or more chemical smelling? Is this the first time the stove has gone above 500F?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

I personally think it smells like chemical smoke


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

I don't think it's the first time.... I've had a bunch of fires but icon lot bought. Infrared therm. So maybe with the blockoff plate it's making the stove hotter


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2013)

That may be the sealant or it could be the paint baking in if this is the first time the stove has gone over 500F.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

That's what I'm hoping.. What do u recommend I do?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

begreen said:


> That may be the sealant or it could be the paint baking in if this is the first time the stove has gone over 500F.


 Figured I would let this fire run its course for the night.. Don't wanna add more wood and he the house smokey again


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2013)

I would open some windows and let the fire finish out warm in order to get this over and done with. How is the room heating up?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

begreen said:


> I would open some windows and let the fire finish out warm in order to get this over and done with. How is the room heating up?


Didn't really see a difference didn't have fire burning for long and once I saw smoke I just moved logs around an am letting it go down on its own


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

begreen said:


> I would open some windows and let the fire finish out warm in order to get this over and done with. How is the room heating up?


What should I do about next time I burn?


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2013)

Let the stove get hot (500-600F) and open the windows. After that burn the smell should be gone as long as the stove got hot enough. 

PS: What did you use around the liner to seal the block-off plate?


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

Milpac black.. I used Milpac for complete sealing of block off plate and around liner it's all I had


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## begreen (Nov 30, 2013)

That's probably what you're smelling. Hopefully it will bake and become neutral.


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

begreen said:


> That's probably what you're smelling. Hopefully it will bake and become neutral.


I sure hope so.. I worked my butt off today to get that plate in.... Don't want any trouble with the Install


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## wenger7446 (Nov 30, 2013)

Keep us updated .


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## Bulldogmoose (Nov 30, 2013)

wenger7446 said:


> Keep us updated .


Sure will... Wicked bumming though.. Thought for sure finally fixed my problem and  now I gotta worry about whether its the sealant or not


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## Soundchasm (Dec 1, 2013)

Bulldogmoose,

I've got a Jotul Rockland 550 insert upstairs and an old smoke monster stove in the basement.  The free stander produces twice as much heat as the insert, maybe more.  Anyway, there's no comparison.  Freestander can run you out of the room, and the insert takes pretty special consideration to make uncomfortably hot.  I have gotten the 550 stove room to 72-74 degrees eventually, but the freestander takes no work to achieve 80 degrees in the same room.

For 550 success, I need dry wood, an established coal bed, then 3-4 new splits with the door cracked open, let them get engulfed in flames (slightly char-coaled), close the door, and start cutting the air back until the flames mysteriously rise off the logs and float around in the firebox, disembodied from the wood.  Now the insert is working.

Get an IR gun (Kintrex), and use it to calibrate the location of the magnetic one.  If it reads 75 degrees too low, it'll always be 75 degrees too low.  Also use the IR gun to discover how many temp zones the stove can have and that it varies inch by inch.  It's an education.

Also might want to consider that thing is probably moving a ton of air to feed the blowers.  That's pretty cold air going across the floor to be heated and blown back out.  And you may have a good layer of warm air 6" down from the ceiling.  Check ceiling temps with the IR gun.  Run your house's HVAC fan to break up holding areas for heat and disrupt cold flows returning to the fan blower.

I've really struggled to make this thing run me out of the room it's in, but it takes a few hours, and I'm still pretty chicken about it.  But we're making progress.  I'm going to start another thread about a very small IR aim point that ALWAYS has the highest temp reading on the stove, even though the temps under the cowling are always lower there, and maybe folks with similar machines can help prove/disprove this single teeny aim point I discovered.


Keep us posted.
Thanks,
Greg


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## Bulldogmoose (Dec 1, 2013)

Soundchasm said:


> Bulldogmoose,
> 
> I've got a Jotul Rockland 550 insert upstairs and an old smoke monster stove in the basement.  The free stander produces twice as much heat as the insert, maybe more.  Anyway, there's no comparison.  Freestander can run you out of the room, and the insert takes pretty special consideration to make uncomfortably hot.  I have gotten the 550 stove room to 72-74 degrees eventually, but the freestander takes no work to achieve 80 degrees in the same room.
> 
> ...


Hey man appreciate the help.. To have such a beautiful piece and not have it work to expectations is a wicked bummer. Unfortunately I don't have duct vents all I have is radiator heat so we have been turning on heat to get house warm then. Using stove to maintain temp.. Just trying anything to get this baby working. I just bought a IR therm from harbor freight tools,.. Can't believe how off magnetic therm was


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## Rudyjr (Dec 1, 2013)

I have a C450 with an insulated top cap and block off plate and the thing will run you out of the room it is in. For me the key was establishing a good initial base fire and proceed from there (Thanks to Brent's guidance). I never need to crack the door other than when I first light it off.


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## Sully (Dec 4, 2013)

Bulldogmoose said:


> What do u mean by splits and secondaries sorry I'm not to familiar with the lingo.. Fire is going pretty well right now have it at around 375 and rising  .. It's burning pretty quickly with the damper fully open


Splits , how many logs do you load in
Secondaries, when the temp is hot enough it burns gas that wood gives off. Looks like the flames are burning on top of wood


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