# My Gas Generator Set-up



## Oldhippie (Feb 1, 2012)

If you live in New England, in the country, chances are you have your own well and septic system, with water supplied by an electric power pump. Of course you also have all of the other electric needs for power, even though we can get heat and even cook on the woodstove.

So a gas generator is great, but they are a pain to wire into your breaker box and can also be dangerous if you turn on your MAIN while the generator is turned on. You will either toast a utility worker out there on the line someplace. (frowned upon), or you will fry all the electrics in your home. So what you need is a fail safe switch capability that allows only the Main to be turned on and NOT the generator, or ONLY the generator and NOT the MAIN. It would also be great to have a power inlet you can easily feed your generator power into the house with. Something that is easily accessible and weather proof.

Here's what you can do.


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## daveswoodhauler (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve, Did you make your own interlock kit or purchase one....I actually purchased one, but it was not an exact match so my electrician fabricated one....can't believe they sell those things for $175, lol
Your hookup looks identical to mine, even the same generator....must have been that icestorm a few years back....will be glad not to see another one, but at least I am prepared now.
Your neighbor to the south.


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## Oldhippie (Feb 1, 2012)

daveswoodhauler said:
			
		

> Steve, Did you make your own interlock kit or purchase one....I actually purchased one, but it was not an exact match so my electrician fabricated one....can't believe they sell those things for $175, lol
> Your hookup looks identical to mine, even the same generator....must have been that icestorm a few years back....will be glad not to see another one, but at least I am prepared now.
> Your neighbor to the south.



Yep I bought it at Gettens electric in Fitchburg. I think it cost me $70. for those two pieces of sheet metal and the screws.

Got the generator at Sears during the ice storm. Got sick of hot wiring the breaker box.


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## nate379 (Feb 1, 2012)

The last few years everytime it would get windy I would lose power.  All the lines in my neighborhood are underground, so I guess it was a main line that feeds to us.
Got smart... I thought... and got a nearly free 4k gen set from a friend that just needed a little bit of work.  Fixed it up, put maybe $30 of parts into it (oil, fuel filter, plug rubber mounts) and it runs like a champ.  
Got a pigtail setup using the cord I use for my welder (~100ft #8 SOOW cord).

Power went out for a day or so not long ago... realized that the generator was in the back of my shed, buried by 2 kitchens worth of cabinets that I need to hang up in teh garage... D'oh!


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## Oldhippie (Feb 1, 2012)

daveswoodhauler said:
			
		

> Steve, Did you make your own interlock kit or purchase one....I actually purchased one, but it was not an exact match so my electrician fabricated one....can't believe they sell those things for $175, lol
> Your hookup looks identical to mine, even the same generator....must have been that icestorm a few years back..*..will be glad not to see another one, but at least I am prepared now*.
> Your neighbor to the south.



Well, I was down two days during that little 18' storm we had on Halloween. Where's the snow since?! Suppose to be close to 50 tomorrow!


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## Oldhippie (Feb 1, 2012)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> The last few years everytime it would get windy I would lose power.  All the lines in my neighborhood are underground, so I guess it was a main line that feeds to us.
> Got smart... I thought... and got a nearly free 4k gen set from a friend that just needed a little bit of work.  Fixed it up, put maybe $30 of parts into it (oil, fuel filter, plug rubber mounts) and it runs like a champ.
> Got a pigtail setup using the cord I use for my welder (~100ft #8 SOOW cord).
> 
> Power went out for a day or so not long ago... *realized that the generator was in the back of my shed, buried by 2 kitchens worth of cabinets that I need to hang up in teh garage... D'oh!*



Every year I have to do the "changing of the guards". I have to move the Harley and the Honda to the rear of the garage and the Ariens and the Generator to the front. I pull them all out of the garage and let them all sit and idle all at once. You can hear the engines rumble on Main St. 2 miles away.


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## jharkin (Feb 1, 2012)

Nice install Steve!  

The other option is a dedicated transfer panel - Reliance Controls panels are quite popular.... Its more expensive but I chose to do that because I had too many of the critical things I wanted to run on the same phase and I didn't want to rearrange the entire main panel to balance the generator.


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## Oldhippie (Feb 1, 2012)

jharkin said:
			
		

> Nice install Steve!
> 
> The other option is a dedicated transfer panel - Reliance Controls panels are quite popular.... Its more expensive but I chose to do that because I had too many of the critical things I wanted to run on the same phase and *I didn't want to rearrange the entire main panel to balance the generator*.



Jeremy, cool! You lost me on the "balance the generator" statement? Help me understand the phase issues? I guess what you are saying is almost all circuits are using the same single phase and they could be better spread out across all 3 phases?


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## begreen (Feb 1, 2012)

I think he meant on the same 120v leg of the panel, assuming he has single-phase power.


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## ironpony (Feb 1, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I think he meant on the same 120v leg of the panel, assuming he has single-phase power.





correct
you have 2 110 legs coming into the panel
it is best to split the load so each leg has similar draw on it
ex;

220 20 amp equal both legs
110 20 amp only on 1 leg
add 110 20 amp on other side of panel-other leg to balance
if you just go into main panel which is balanced  
the circuits you need might all be on one side of the panel
overloading one leg of power


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## EJL923 (Feb 1, 2012)

Steve,

Do you happen to know what the running whats of your well pump are?  At the end of the Halloween storm, i was able to get my hands on the same generator.  I later discovered that my running watts was 2400 and my app startup was over 9000.  I took the generator back because i wasnt sure if it would run my well.  I am not going to pay for a 10000 watt startup generator.  If your running watts were similar to mine, i would feel better about purchasing the same generator.  I only asl because estimating startup wattage is difficult without the right equipment.  My well pump is rather large, almost 450' deep.


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## Jags (Feb 1, 2012)

I do like that setup and the outdoor plug.  Its a bit overkill for my application, but I can see its purpose.  I have very little that is critical in the need for zoomies.  Well pump, fridge(s) and freezer is about it.  Maybe a couple of lights for a longer outage, but I have to say, it has been years since any long term outage has happened around me (sure, watch us get hit by an ice storm and make me eat my words.)

My little 10,000W genny:


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## BrotherBart (Feb 2, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> My little 10,000W genny:



I have 10,000 watts but I have to start all four generators to get there.


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## ironpony (Feb 2, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> I do like that setup and the outdoor plug.  Its a bit overkill for my application, but I can see its purpose.  I have very little that is critical in the need for zoomies.  Well pump, fridge(s) and freezer is about it.  Maybe a couple of lights for a longer outage, but I have to say, it has been years since any long term outage has happened around me (sure, watch us get hit by an ice storm and make me eat my words.)
> 
> My little 10,000W genny:





hey Jags I have one of those too
1940's military genset????
right??

4 cyl. Hercules engine
cool
both have Challengers and generators........................


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## jharkin (Feb 2, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I think he meant on the same 120v leg of the panel, assuming he has single-phase power.



Yes, that's right... sorry about interchanging the terms by accident - I certainly dont have a 3 phase drop here 

Anyway, yes there were only about a half dozen circuits that I would really want in an emergency, but a few of the ones that are big draw - septic pump, sump, microwave  - happened to be on the same leg. I wanted to have one or 2 big ones and a few lighting circuits on each leg of the gen.


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## Ehouse (Feb 2, 2012)

Another way is to use a small sub panel for your desired circuits with an on/off/on switch between Gen and main panel.  

Ehouse


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## jebatty (Feb 2, 2012)

My setup is similar and I use a 10 circuit transfer switch. Right now I run the generator cord through a window, but I have the box and outlet to move this to the outside of the house, just need to do it. The transfer switches activate key house lighting circuits, a kitchen outlet and microwave, the well pump, and the computer/TV/satellite/entertainment system circuits. If a power outage, need to keep up with the Hearth forums.


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## Jags (Feb 2, 2012)

ironpony said:
			
		

> hey Jags I have one of those too
> 1940's military genset????
> right??
> 
> ...



You got it.  1942 to be exact.  Now the genny head has been changed over to a modern one, cuz I didn't have any use for a 3 phase 110v genny head.  Converted to 12V also.  Runs like a champ.

And anybody that has/had a challenger is just cool. ;-)


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## begreen (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm hoping someone has a cool lister engine genset pic. I've wanted one of those for awhile. But lately I've been looking into this 2 or 3KW pure-sine option instead:

http://www.converdantvehicles.com/plug-out.html


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## maple1 (Feb 2, 2012)

Can someone from Canada chime in on the ins & outs up here with respect to the lockout setups in the first post? I don't know of anyone with that setup, have never seen them for sale up here, and am thinking they are (for some likely non-sensical reason) against coding? It seems to me to be the simplest way to safely tie in a generator.


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## Jags (Feb 2, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> I'm hoping someone has a cool lister engine genset pic. I've wanted one of those for awhile. But lately I've been looking into this 2 or 3KW pure-sine option instead:
> 
> http://www.converdantvehicles.com/plug-out.html



Man - thats pretty cool.  3000W would handle most peoples emergency needs pretty well.  The only down side I see to it is that there is no 220V.  That could be a deal breaker if the household has a 220v well pump.

Looks darn economical as far as fuel usage as well.


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## begreen (Feb 2, 2012)

220V can be done, you just need to hook up a 220V inverter instead. There is a project called Pri-UPS that has done this with some hefty server UPS systems. For us 120v is fine. The only loads we really need are refrigeration and freezer. The rest is gravy.


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## Retired Guy (Feb 2, 2012)

EJL923 said:
			
		

> Steve,
> 
> Do you happen to know what the running whats of your well pump are?  At the end of the Halloween storm, i was able to get my hands on the same generator.  I later discovered that my running watts was 2400 and my app startup was over 9000.  I took the generator back because i wasnt sure if it would run my well.  I am not going to pay for a 10000 watt startup generator.  If your running watts were similar to mine, i would feel better about purchasing the same generator.  I only asl because estimating startup wattage is difficult without the right equipment.  My well pump is rather large, almost 450' deep.



I ran a 1/2 HP Jacuzzi submersible with a 4000W 240V generator - did a couple of lights and the furnace at the same time.


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## Highbeam (Feb 3, 2012)

It is not a big deal to move circuits from one leg to the other. You folks do realize that nearly all panels alternate legs right? Meaning that the right and the left "stack" of breakers are not fully on seperate legs? Every full breaker slot is on a seperate leg than the one beneath it. So every other 110 volt breaker in the stack is on the same leg? It is really easy to just move the breaker one position up or down to evenly load your service. Really, if you find that your panel is loaded with most of the loads on one leg you should be fixing that regardless. 

I have the same setup as the OP but with a panel that came from the factory equipped this way. It did not add much to the cost of the new panel and the whole deal is certified as a generator transfer panel that way so if you plan to swap your panel anyway, then use a whole house transfer panel.

I am not a fan of those generator panels that only transfer 6 or 10 circuits. It adds a lot of complexity to what should be a very simple lock out tab.


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## charly (Oct 27, 2012)

My 4000 watt old honda should be good for me, 3500 watt constant. Our water is gravity fed to our farm house from a spring fed pond up on a hill behind us. That's been in use for generations. Good water pressure too. We still filter through a Berky filter system what we drink. So we just need power for a fridge, small freezer, and our 220 electric hot water heater which is a GE hybrid, we run it in the hybrid mode which is like a dehumidifier. Run a few lights and I think we're not overloading the generator. We could go all winter with out power and still have water and heat from our wood stoves. A nice feeling for sure, yup we can still use the toilets with no power.


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## infinitymike (Oct 27, 2012)

I have been using two 3k generators that I back feed through outlets. One outlet is on one leg of the panel and one on another.
Eventually I will set up a transfer switch.

I recently ran a 220 line out to the garage for an arc welder I bought.

MY QUESTION:
If I use one generator and back feed through the 220 outlet I should energize both legs, Right?


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## jharkin (Oct 27, 2012)

#1 - If you are going to feed 240 to the house, the generator should have a 240/120 outlet. They are usually twist lock deals like so:







#2  I'd recommend against just back feeding a regular outlet, as to do that you are giong to have to make a double male end,  a.k.a. suicide cord.  You might never forget to plug it in before starting the gen, but the one time you do forget will be the last. Better option is to get a dedicated generator inpout box so you can use a regular male to female cord.


#3  For the same reason as above, if you are planning to backfeed the panel get an interlock breaker.  Its cheap (under $100) insurance. All it takes is a moment of forgetfulness, accidentally leaving he main breaker on when you hook up the genny and you can kill a lineman.


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## bill3rail (Oct 29, 2013)

I figured I should bump this thread up to the top as it is that time of year to consider setting up the generators for house power.

I am going to set up like Oldhippie has done here.  All that I now need is some wire...
It is safe and cheap.  Without the suicide cord!

Bill


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2013)

I have a 7000W portable generator that I connect to one of my panels via a socket on the outside of the house. It runs everything I need including the blower on the fireplace. It dawned on me however, at night, the blower was the only thing that needed power. The fridge and freezer were not being opened so they would be fine during the night without power. I started thinking about how to run my blower using my little Harbor Freight generator.

Since the blower is wired into the panel I started to design a small transfer switch for a single circuit. During my research I came across exactly what I wanted at www.generator-switch.com. I went for convenience and ordered one. It was easy to install and doesn't cause any issues when using my big generator.

The HF generator will run my blower for about 6 hours on 1 gallon of gas (2-stroke mix) while my big generator is rated to run about 8 hours at 50% load on 6 gallons. Now I just need a storm so I can save some gas. (Crazy? My wife thinks I am too.) The only reason I would have to run the larger unit at night is if the sump pump will be running. The HF unit is only 800W running.


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## infinitymike (Oct 31, 2013)

Who says your the village idiot?
That's pretty cool 
I back feed the whole panel and only turn on what I need. 
Same thing, different approach. 
At least your way you no turning as much fuel as the big genie.


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## flyingcow (Nov 3, 2013)

I will have a electrician come in soon and put a 3 way throw switch and outside plug. . But for now i have a 10 gauge cord that I plug form the 6400 watt generator to a plug beside my panel. I throw the main off first, shut down all circuits except for first floor lights. Fire up the generator and go back down in the basement and turn on just what i need at a minimum. Well water, wood boiler sub panel, a few lights etc. Keep all other two pole switches off. If i need to cook with electric range i would just run the the circuit for that. And chances are just use the stove top. I try to keep sensitive equipment,i.e  desk top computer off. Not sure if anyone mentioned before the difference between clean electricity and dirty. My generator is just a basic unit.


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## Village Idiot (Nov 3, 2013)

Good point about dirty vs. clean power. Unless you have an inverter generator, the power can be pretty dirty and do a number on sensitive electronics. I have my sensitive equipment connected to UPS units to keep them safe.


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## Highbeam (Nov 3, 2013)

Oddly, the really important and expensive stuff like computers and big TVs are protected by their universal power supplies that allow quite a range of voltage, hertz, and noise with ease. It's the oddball stuff like ceiling fans, refrigerators, and microwaves that are susceptible to damage if your power is really really dirty. Power quality has gotta be crap before it's bad enough to damage anything. Seems the inverter genset manufacturers make a bigger deal out of this than necessary.


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## woodgeek (Nov 4, 2013)

Note: My HF genny, like in the picture, can run my 1/3 hp Zoeller sump pump no problem.  It 'labors' a little on the start, but has never popped the breaker.  So I either run the sump OR my load-managed house (fridge, lights, etc). I have a battery backup on the sump, so seldom 'need' to run the sump during an outage..if I did, I would just buy a second HF genny.


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## bill3rail (Nov 11, 2013)

Village Idiot said:


> Since the blower is wired into the panel I started to design a small transfer switch for a single circuit. During my research I came across exactly what I wanted at www.generator-switch.com. I went for convenience and ordered one. It was easy to install and doesn't cause any issues when using my big generator.



I like the idea of a single circuit switch, but I did not know about it before I started my complete panel transfer switch.  I see you only added the second one to save gas, but I do not think I will need to run it all night long, unless the pellet stove will stay on all night, which we rarely do.

Bill


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