# Toyota accelerator problems



## Jack Straw (Mar 9, 2010)

With all of the reports I have read I haven't heard of any one just putting their car into nuetral. The guy yesturday in California sped down the highway for 20 minutes. I basically understand that something is happening and the computer thinks the gas pedal is being pushed down. What I don't understand is why can't you put the car into nuetral or are people panicing?


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## Bobbin (Mar 9, 2010)

That was the first question I asked when that awful tape of the panic stricken people in Ca. who were killed first hit the airwaves.  Clearly, if you put the car in neutral you have effectively severed the connection between the engine and the transmission.  To me that's a no brainer and if the pistons blow through the hood who cares?  I'm no mechanical genius but I know enough about cars to know that neutral means no power to the drive wheels.  In later discussions of the tragic circumstances the very issue of shifting to neutral or turn the key off was recommended as the solution... 

What really gets me is the "nitwit factor"... you are in a runaway vehicle and you're capable of dialling 911 but you lack the basic good sense to put the transmission in neutral or turn the key off?  Time to revamp the Driver's Ed. books, huh?


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## RowCropRenegade (Mar 9, 2010)

Or turn the key....


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## chrisasst (Mar 10, 2010)

the article says he was able to turn the key when he got down to 55 mph.. so I don't understand either


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## FORCE FAB (Mar 10, 2010)

THIS ALL STARTED IN THE 90'S WHEN THEY STARTED MAKIN YOU PUSH THE BRAKE BEFORE SHIFTING INTO GEAR.......MAKE IT IDIOT PROOF SO YA CAN GET MORE IDIOTS ON THE ROAD......TOYOTA IS MESSED UP RIGHT NOW BUT IF YOU CANT THROW IT INTO NEUTRAL OR PARK OR REVERSE OR TURN OFF THE KEY!YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A LICENSE....


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 10, 2010)

My wife's Toyota hybrid accelerates just fine, from 0 to faster than I should be driving.  The problem I have is putting my foot on the brake when I see a deer and being able to do nothing other than trust the computer.  Even though the braking has been flawless, I'll take the 4 wheel discs without ABS in my truck any day of the week.


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## fbelec (Mar 10, 2010)

i seen this last guy on the news talking about his prius. he was asked why he didn't put the car in neutral. he said when your going 94 miles per hour there are alot different things running in my mind. what a dope. first thing on his mind was to pickup the phone. i'm use to the old cars. in a old car if the throttle was being held down from one thing or another if you put it in neutral you blow the engine. why not try something different, shut off the key. the company is frowning on shutting off the key saying that you can lose power steering and brakes. bull. if your excited that much your adrenalin is flowing and at that time people can have so much more strength than you think you have doesn't matter if your key is off your brakes will still work. the prius is the worst offender if the throttle was pushed down not only are you getting a 4 cylinder engine pulling but you have a electric motor which has even more torque than horsepower. that's why these people can't stop those cars. the brakes them self are fine just can't over come the wieght of the vehicle at speed and 2 driving forces combined. i just don't understand why the company just won't come out and say that they have a computer problem.
my friend that works at toyota says that if you were to slide the shift into neutral the engine would not blow because of a rev limiter. 
this same thing used to happen to a old 68 fairlane i owned when i was a kid. it had a broken motor mount on the drivers side. when i would hit the gas to start from a light or from stop the motor would lift alot higher than normal and because of that movement it would tug on the gas peddle and would keep going until either i shut the motor of it got up enough speed to lay the motor down. i was just a kid and i had the sense to shut the key off turn the wheel to pull over then hit the power brake peddle to stop and get my senses back.
we are really losing the race on common sense as time go's on.


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## fbelec (Mar 10, 2010)

Jack Straw said:
			
		

> With all of the reports I have read I haven't heard of any one just putting their car into nuetral. The guy yesturday in California sped down the highway for 20 minutes. I basically understand that something is happening and the computer thinks the gas pedal is being pushed down. What I don't understand is why can't you put the car into nuetral or are people panicing?



this type of problem would not happen if they got rid of the fly by wire and went back to the gas peddle controlling the air flaps in a throttle body and a throttle positioning sensor. if the computer decided to dump a bunch of gas into the engine because it thinks the gas peddle is floored the motor would stall because of not having enough air.


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## madrone (Mar 10, 2010)

FORCE FAB said:
			
		

> THIS ALL STARTED IN THE 90'S WHEN THEY STARTED MAKIN YOU PUSH THE BRAKE BEFORE SHIFTING INTO GEAR.......MAKE IT IDIOT PROOF SO YA CAN GET MORE IDIOTS ON THE ROAD......TOYOTA IS MESSED UP RIGHT NOW BUT IF YOU CANT THROW IT INTO NEUTRAL OR PARK OR REVERSE OR TURN OFF THE KEY!YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A LICENSE....



Don't need to depress brake to shift into neutral from drive, just to get out of park into gear.


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## begreen (Mar 10, 2010)

Considering this went on for about 20 minutes, it seems there was plenty of time for rational thinking and even a call to Toyota by the trooper. In his model Prius, all he had to do is hit the P (Park) button or hold down the Start button for a few seconds. Either procedure would have put the car into neutral and brought the engine down to idle. This works even done under full acceleration. So was this stunt paid for by GM?


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## BrotherBart (Mar 10, 2010)

Any time I see an emergency situation that I didn't have to deal with, I know exactly how it should have been handled.  :coolsmirk:


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## eba1225 (Mar 10, 2010)

I can see that having this happen can be quite horrifying and you mind would turn to just stepping on the brake to stop the car.  With that said and the report from Cali. of the runaway Prius confirmed my suspicions.  But turning off the ignition of the car allowed the car to just coast to a stop.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 10, 2010)

eba1225 said:
			
		

> But turning off the ignition of the car allowed the car to just coast to a stop.



Unless it causes you to lose power steering, power brakes and overshoot by a tad and lock the steering column.  :ahhh:


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## Bill (Mar 10, 2010)

At 90 miles per hour, you don't need power-steering, it's most useful when parking the car. My take on this is that many people don't know how to think on there own anymore. An example my employees, I have to tell them everything to do, and put it in writing, so when they screw up HR will back me when I discipline them. If this dummy had enough cool to use the cell phone, he should of had the smarts to hit neutral. I wonder did the police suggest this?


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## firefighterjake (Mar 10, 2010)

I've been saying this for a long time . . . couldn't for the life of me figure out why folks didn't simply slip their car into neutral . . . or as a last ditch effort turn off the car engine and keep the steering wheel as straight as possible to avoid any possible lock up. Yeah . . . I can understand how some folks might panic initially . . . but after a few minutes one would think the driver, other passengers (in other examples), the 911 dispatcher, etc. would think to mention this idea . . .

I think humanity is doomed.


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## fbelec (Mar 10, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> eba1225 said:
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locking the steering column i can see one of these dummys doing that. at that speed turning the wheel won't be any harder than plain old car without power steering, unless you go to one other bright thing that toyota had put on the corolla electric power steering. and stopping the car, after you shut down the engine or motor or both you just put your foot on the brake peddle hard and it will stop. going 20 minutes without doing something is plain outright stupid. i hope this guy isn't replicating. that's all we need is more dummys


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## fbelec (Mar 10, 2010)

firefighterjake said:
			
		

> I've been saying this for a long time . . . couldn't for the life of me figure out why folks didn't simply slip their car into neutral . . . or as a last ditch effort turn off the car engine and keep the steering wheel as straight as possible to avoid any possible lock up. Yeah . . . I can understand how some folks might panic initially . . . but after a few minutes one would think the driver, other passengers (in other examples), the 911 dispatcher, etc. would think to mention this idea . . .
> 
> I think humanity is doomed.



agreed. the first thing that comes to mind is pickup the phone. they must have a couch to use the toilet


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## ChillyGator (Mar 10, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Any time I see an emergency situation that I didn't have to deal with, I know exactly how it should have been handled.  :coolsmirk:



This is SO true.  

A couple of Sunday's ago I was eating breakfast (Cheerios) when part of one got caught in my throat and cut off my air supply 100%......I did not know that a self administered Himlich manuver was the correct action.....what I did was stand over the kitchen sink 'growling/grunting/raging' until a little pinhole in my throat opened up and I was able to start coughing and eventually coughed up the little chunk that was killing me.  I think I just got lucky that I didn't pass out before getting relief.  

A couple of years ago I was driving my friend's '57 Chevy (souped up 350 motor), he told me to 'kick it' one time which I did and the accelerator promtley stuck wide open.....I'm thankful that I thought to shut off the engine rather than shift into neutral (my first instinct).  Worked just as well and saved some $$.

Things start happening VERY FAST when you get in that type situation......prior planning/thinking about it goes a long way.


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## billb3 (Mar 10, 2010)

Just what we need - another reason for a Prius owner to be afraid of pressing down on  the damn gas pedal.


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## rdust (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm a huge advocate of buying cars made by American owned companies, I live in Michigan so this is for obvious reasons.  I really don't want to see any car companies foreign or domestic suffer though since they employ so many American workers.  

With that said for the life of me I can't understand how the people driving these cars are so stupid!  It's simple, put the car in neutral, I'm not a fan of turning it off due to losing power steering and brakes or locking the steering wheel.  It's really not rocket science!  As others have said above me the guy said he couldn't think since so much was happening, come on guy, you managed to call 911 but didn't have enough sense to put it in neutral.  It's a a Prius for gods sake, it's not like it got to 90 at warp speed!

I remember when this all started, I asked my wife what she would do and she said she didn't know.  I explained that if something like this was to ever happen she'd just have to put the car in neutral.  I guess living in the motorcity, being a car guy from the time I could walk and racing cars since I could drive I can keep my head enough to put a car in neutral in a tense situation. 

Maybe this is a modern day natural selection!  :lol:


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## rdust (Mar 10, 2010)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Either procedure would have put the car into neutral and brought the engine down to idle. This works even done under full acceleration. *So was this stunt paid for by GM?*



Please remove your tin foil hat!


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## mayhem (Mar 10, 2010)

Part of the problem here is that there is no longer a physical connection to either the motor or the transmission, so even if you put the gear selector in neutral, there is no guanrantee the software is giong to read your keyboard input and shift the gears.  As I understand it, at least in the hybrids, you have to hold the shifter in N for a few seconds in order for it to take it out of drive...ditto with the start/stop button...its designed to require more than a touch to stop the motor so you don't accidentally shut your motor off while you're reaching for the HVAC fan controls.

An interesting side note, I experimented wiht it myself last night.  In many, if not all, newer cars with automatic tranny's...stepping on the brake pedal will idle the motor, regardless of throttl input.  I tried it in my wife's Audi while I was bedding in her new rear brake pads.  Matted the gas pedal and stepped on the brake pedal...motor fought the brakes for about 3 seconds and then the engine shut down to idle and the car stopped...my right foot was still planted.  Gonna try it in my truck next time I go out.  I know the Toyotas are alleged to have this feature...I have to wonder why its not working.  My guess is this is a software glitch that they can't find.  The computer is throwing the motor into high or full throttle and overriding the brake cutoff...this is NOT a floormat or a sticky gaspedal or even a faulty throttle assembly...this is a computer issue.


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## kenny chaos (Mar 10, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Any time I see an emergency situation that I didn't have to deal with, I know exactly how it should have been handled.  :coolsmirk:







That's one for the World Book Of Great Quotes.


Why not just gently roll out of the door? :lol: 

I remember when car manufacturers moved the "high beam" button from the floor to the steering column.
They had to recall all those cars from Poland because they kept getting their feet caught in the steering wheel. :lol:


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## Bobbin (Mar 10, 2010)

Lol, Kenny.  

I pretty much think there is an increasing divide between using an automobile and having a basic clue about how it actually works.  I'm NOT a mechanical whiz by any stretch of the imagination and I do understand how panic can overtake a situation.  But for Pete's sake, people! the car is accelerating and it's out of your control.  When does self-preservation kick in, TRY something besides screaming into a cell phone (how about texting for help?).  I work with high speed sewing equipment and a lot of fast moving, very hot or very sharp tools on a daily basis, so maybe I'm just less cowed by equipment/machinery or am "wired" to be willing to try things.  Dunno.  

Two hundred years ago those same people who've been tragically killed may just as likely have bent over behind a horse to pick up something shiney and been kicked in the head... .  Yes, I'm being flip, but if you're going to operate an automobile you really do need to know more about it that just how to "aim" it.  

You can't lock the steering column unless the car is in Park and you have to move the shifter a long way beyond Neutral to hit Park.  Putting the car in neutral has been one of the waysoffered to regain control over the runaway automobiles.  The emergency operator asked the guy if he'd done that, too.


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## Deere10 (Mar 10, 2010)

I believe the steering column will only lock the wheel when in Park.     So to all Toyota owners Here is my PSA  when barrelling down the hi way outa control  Shift to neutral  Turn key to back to you (steering wheel will not lock). Apply brake,If working properly  if not There is always a Parking brake either foot operated or Handle between seats..  There are always options you can do.     A saying comes to mind      Common sense    Priceless............


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## Deere10 (Mar 10, 2010)

OOO   wait   that last post may not have been  PC   to all that were offended     Sorry you must be a Toyota owner too...


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## Flatbedford (Mar 10, 2010)

How about putting the clutch in? Oh, I forgot, nobody knows what that means anymore.
I found this on a towing forum. It was the result of a little unintended sudden acceleration by Toyota.


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## tiber (Mar 10, 2010)

MR2 owner and general Toyota car nut here...

WRT: Where they're built - they're engineered in Japan for the most part and they're built in the US or Japan. The J ones have always been a little more stupid than the 4 (American) VIN ones, we always chalked it up to the salt bath and remaining radioactivity.

The problem is the ECU goes ballistic when the contacts are shorted in the accelerator. All gripes to the effect of "Fly By Wire Sucks" are 100% correct. Specifically for the prius, newer models will let you shift into N, older models will not.

The thing that honestly scares me, Toyota bashing aside, is that these pedals are not used exclusively in toyota - GMs have a lot in common with Toyotas. Will we see GMs buy it in the future or what?

Anyway, I drive a 1992 Camry and a 1991-and-a-half MR2. They don't have ABS, they don't have stupid computers pissing around with the engine, and I don't mind a bit.


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## Bobbin (Mar 10, 2010)

Tiber, I drive a 2000 Taurus wagon.  OK, but nothing special; I bought it because it was the right price at the right time.  If Toyotas hadn't been so expensive I'd have probably bought one of those.  

Toyota makes a fabulous car.  Just the way Juki owns the commercial sewing machine market.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy one tomorrow if I had the money and was in the market for new car!  NO wait, I'd be more likely to look at Hyundai.


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 11, 2010)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> How about putting the clutch in? Oh, I forgot, nobody knows what that means anymore.
> I found this on a towing forum. It was the result of a little unintended sudden acceleration by Toyota.



That's beautiful.  Its not like there was a shortage of parking spots.


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## RowCropRenegade (Mar 11, 2010)

Most people's natural reaction in mechanical failure is to hit the brakes.  Which can be deadly in many situations.  Our driving courses are a joke in this country.  The driving out on the highway reflects that.  Add on top of it that many car owners don't understand how their vehicles think/work.  Peak Oil should solve a good portion of it.

I've had two potentionally disastrous mechanical failures on the interstate with my semi.  One steering axle tire blowout and one Turbo go out.  The only reason I didn't hit anyone or lose my cummins motor was because I was prepared.  (not hitting brakes on blowout) and (keeping RPMs down while trying to kill the motor before it burns all the oil in the motor up)

I won't pretend to know what happened in these Toyota cars.  But the difference between living and dying are split seconds and part of being a good operator of any machinery is knowledge/preparation.


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## Flatbedford (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't think many people consider driving a car to be operating machinery, nor are there many who take much pride in operating that machinery safely, efficiently, or properly or understanding how it works. Cars are so easy to operate that people forget that they are operating a complex machine.


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## kenny chaos (Mar 11, 2010)

No, I'm the best driver.


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## Jags (Mar 11, 2010)

Upon entering the 805 freeway in San Diego CA in circa 1988, the long sweeping entrance ramp was calling.  Driving a heavily built '73 Challenger didn't help.  Kicked that mother for all she had and @@@BOING@@@ - there goes the throttle return spring (as I found out later).  With gas pedal stuck flat to the floor and accelerating at the speed of an F14 in full afterburners I was WELL over 100mph before I could get my foot under the pedal and lifted off the floor.  There was no "reaching down" at those speeds, one slight over correction and it would have been all done.  Thank you mechanical connection.  I can attest that in the first few moments of that "what the hell" experience, you will still be calculating your best move.  Panic can/will set in.  Dunno about the guy driving around for 20 min.  That one is hard to explain.

Note: that car has since been fitted with TWO return springs.

Jags - someone who has been in a stuck throttle position approaching 130+ MPH.


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## Flatbedford (Mar 11, 2010)

Just ask Adam Petty or Kenny Irwin Jr about stuck throttles. Both professional drivers who died due to stuck throttle. That must have been a terrifying demise for them. 
One of the motor mounts broke allowing the engine to lift and pull the throttle linkage wide open on my old flatbed sending it up a friend of mine's driveway toward his neighbor's car. I got it to stop by putting the clutch in. The brakes would never have stopped it. Once the clutch was in, the engine fell back down and the throttle closed. Pretty scary a couple seconds. If I had 20 minutes on an interstate it would have been a little less hair raising.


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## PAJerry (Mar 11, 2010)

I purposely tried an experiment with my 2004 Prius on the way home yesterday. Got it up to 65 on the interstate and tapped the shift stalk left to the 'N' position.  Gas engine shut down immediately and it coasted to a stop. The biggest defective part these Toyotas have is the boob sitting behind the wheel.  This guy could yak on the cell phone but not give the tiny gearshift stalk a tap to the left???  Darwin may be disappointed that this one lived.


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## vvvv (Mar 11, 2010)

mayhem said:
			
		

> Part of the problem here is that there is no longer a physical connection to either the motor or the transmission, so even if you put the gear selector in neutral, there is no guanrantee the software is giong to read your keyboard input and shift the gears.  As I understand it, at least in the hybrids, you have to hold the shifter in N for a few seconds in order for it to take it out of drive...ditto with the start/stop button...its designed to require more than a touch to stop the motor so you don't accidentally shut your motor off while you're reaching for the HVAC fan controls.
> 
> An interesting side note, I experimented wiht it myself last night.  In many, if not all, newer cars with automatic tranny's...stepping on the brake pedal will idle the motor, regardless of throttl input.  I tried it in my wife's Audi while I was bedding in her new rear brake pads.  Matted the gas pedal and stepped on the brake pedal...motor fought the brakes for about 3 seconds and then the engine shut down to idle and the car stopped...my right foot was still planted.  Gonna try it in my truck next time I go out.  I know the Toyotas are alleged to have this feature...I have to wonder why its not working.  My guess is this is a software glitch that they can't find.  The computer is throwing the motor into high or full throttle and overriding the brake cutoff...this is NOT a floormat or a sticky gaspedal or even a faulty throttle assembly...this is a computer issue.


Thanks for posting this! :kiss:


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## Highbeam (Mar 11, 2010)

PAJerry said:
			
		

> I purposely tried an experiment with my 2004 Prius on the way home yesterday. Got it up to 65 on the interstate and tapped the shift stalk left to the 'N' position.  Gas engine shut down immediately and it coasted to a stop. The biggest defective part these Toyotas have is the boob sitting behind the wheel.  This guy could yak on the cell phone but not give the tiny gearshift stalk a tap to the left???  Darwin may be disappointed that this one lived.



Great post. Ability to yak on phone while driving was a well practiced skill apparently.


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## mayhem (Mar 11, 2010)

mayhem said:
			
		

> An interesting side note, I experimented wiht it myself last night.  In many, if not all, newer cars with automatic tranny's...stepping on the brake pedal will idle the motor, regardless of throttl input.  I tried it in my wife's Audi while I was bedding in her new rear brake pads.  Matted the gas pedal and stepped on the brake pedal...motor fought the brakes for about 3 seconds and then the engine shut down to idle and the car stopped...my right foot was still planted.  Gonna try it in my truck next time I go out.  I know the Toyotas are alleged to have this feature...I have to wonder why its not working.  My guess is this is a software glitch that they can't find.  The computer is throwing the motor into high or full throttle and overriding the brake cutoff...this is NOT a floormat or a sticky gaspedal or even a faulty throttle assembly...this is a computer issue.



Did the experiment in my Silverado last night.  Straight line, going about 50 on a flat grade, matted the gas pedal, throttle kicked down and I got close to 60...kpet my right foot planted and stepped hard on the brake pedal.  The engine did not shut down, it just kept right on running at WOT...meanwhile the brakes hauled the truck right down to a dead stop, no problem, no drama...a bit further than normally takes to stop but it was not an extraordinary distance at all..it was less than if I had it loaded up near the GVWR.  Brakes easily overcame the motor's max output, and its a 3/4 ton truck with a 6.0 V-8 in proper running condition.  Didn't even have to stand on the brake pedal either...it was very easy.


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## Jags (Mar 11, 2010)

mayhem said:
			
		

> mayhem said:
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I did this same test with my skate board last night.  One foot pushing for all I had, with the other in full brake position.  It did not yield the results I was expecting.  At first I started to go in circles then it flipped me straight off the dang thing.  I believe the board is defect.


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## Flatbedford (Mar 11, 2010)

mayhem said:
			
		

> mayhem said:
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While this might work in the Audi and the Chevy, my understanding is that the Prius has a more complex braking system. Under light braking regenerative braking is used, which is when the electric motors become generators, charge the batteries, and the resistance is used to slow the car. When more braking is needed,  conventional hydraulic brakes are applied. All of this is, of course controlled by the computer. Maybe all this makes it a little more complicated than just standing on the brake pedal?
I think the next recall should include installation of one of these.


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## mayhem (Mar 11, 2010)

^^ True enough, but the Prius issue is just a small fraction of whats going on here...conventional, non-hybrid Toyota models like Tunrdas and Camrys are experiencing unrequested WOT.  The brakes on any given car should be of sufficient swept area to overcome the maximum power a car's engine can put out.

Car and Driver did a test of this a month or so ago, Camry V-6 running at WOT at 100mph slowed to 0 with the throttle floored and it took about 30% more rom than with the throttle closed, but it stopped by standing on the brake pedal.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept


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## fbelec (Mar 12, 2010)

mayhem said:
			
		

> Part of the problem here is that there is no longer a physical connection to either the motor or the transmission, so even if you put the gear selector in neutral, there is no guanrantee the software is giong to read your keyboard input and shift the gears.  As I understand it, at least in the hybrids, you have to hold the shifter in N for a few seconds in order for it to take it out of drive...ditto with the start/stop button...its designed to require more than a touch to stop the motor so you don't accidentally shut your motor off while you're reaching for the HVAC fan controls.
> 
> An interesting side note, I experimented wiht it myself last night.  In many, if not all, newer cars with automatic tranny's...stepping on the brake pedal will idle the motor, regardless of throttl input.  I tried it in my wife's Audi while I was bedding in her new rear brake pads.  Matted the gas pedal and stepped on the brake pedal...motor fought the brakes for about 3 seconds and then the engine shut down to idle and the car stopped...my right foot was still planted.  Gonna try it in my truck next time I go out.  I know the Toyotas are alleged to have this feature...I have to wonder why its not working.  My guess is this is a software glitch that they can't find.  The computer is throwing the motor into high or full throttle and overriding the brake cutoff...this is NOT a floormat or a sticky gaspedal or even a faulty throttle assembly...this is a computer issue.



the killer is they just won't admit it.


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## SolarAndWood (Mar 12, 2010)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> my understanding is that the Prius has a more complex braking system. Under light braking regenerative braking is used, which is when the electric motors become generators, charge the batteries, and the resistance is used to slow the car. When more braking is needed,  conventional hydraulic brakes are applied. All of this is, of course controlled by the computer.



If you like the feel of big 4 wheel discs and loathe ABS, this system will drive you crazy.  Pretty cool though and works very well.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 12, 2010)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> mayhem said:
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Nah . . . the next recall should install one of these on the Prius . . . then we'll see just how good gas mileage they get . . . on the flip side . . . it should stop them pretty darn quickly.


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## Bobbin (Mar 12, 2010)

A very interesting read, you guys.  Esp. the "real life" experiments which make me feel a lot better about automotive engineering in general.  

We all know Kenny is the best driver in the group.  That goes without saying, though.  

Row., many many moons ago I held a "commercial light" license.  I could drive a two axle vehicle up to a certain weight.  I drove buses  basically school bus size (without the school bus certification).  They were all "cab over" design and the steering axle was behind my seat.  We were told to report to the big parking lot one day when there was 2-3" of snow on it.  We got the bus up to about 30-ish mph and slammed on the brakes.  Lesson? better to have a basic clue about how a vehicle reacts in adverse conditions than not.  And better to experience it in a vacant parking lot than out on the road with 60+ passengers and a lot of other vehicles.  It was scarey, but it also gave us the chance to see how forgiving the bus could be!  Keep both hands on the wheel.  What driving a bus taught me at 20 yrs. old was that drving requires your full attention and the priviledge is not a god-given right of passage at age 16.  The bigger and more powerful the vehicle the longer it takes to stop it... think about that the next time you come hurtling out of the on ramp "chute" and cut off a bus or a semi  (anyone else for that matter) because you never bothered to learn what "yield" means or that it applies to you, too.

I also recommend taking a Defensive Driving course (stop rolling your eyes).   They're actually fun and they can save you money on your insurance premiums and help you out if you have "moving violations" against your driver's license.  A lot of the stuff is kind of dull, but a lot of it is interesting, too!


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## Flatbedford (Mar 12, 2010)

In addition to the defensive driving course, I recommend spending some time behind the wheel of big truck, or at least in the passenger seat of one. Makes you think about driving and traffic in ways you never would have otherwise.


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## firefighterjake (Mar 12, 2010)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> In addition to the defensive driving course, I recommend spending some time behind the wheel of big truck, or at least in the passenger seat of one. Makes you think about driving and traffic in ways you never would have otherwise.



The stories I've heard from my wood cutting buddy/truck driver amaze me . . . such as the time(s) he has folks fail to yield when coming on to the highway from the on-ramp . . . told me one time the car cut so close in front of him that he momentarily lost view of the car as it was blocked by the nose of the truck . . . talk about being a little too close for comfort.


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## semipro (Mar 12, 2010)

Jack Straw said:
			
		

> With all of the reports I have read I haven't heard of any one just putting their car into nuetral. The guy yesturday in California sped down the highway for 20 minutes. I basically understand that something is happening and the computer thinks the gas pedal is being pushed down. What I don't understand is why can't you put the car into nuetral or are people panicing?



My first thought when hearing about this was "what better way to substantiate a (false) claim against Toyota and have a little fun at the same time without actually crashing" .  Maybe this guy just wanted his entitlement to the 80 plus class action lawsuits already filed against Toyota and others. Pedal to the metal!


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## mike1234 (Mar 12, 2010)

RowCropRenegade said:
			
		

> Or turn the key....


Prius have buttons not keys, if you press the button while moving, it does not effect the car - so turning the key is not an option.  But putting it in neutral is.


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## Oldmainer (Mar 12, 2010)

Hello all...shades of the Audi 5000 flap of thirty years or so ago...remember them? Ya gotta remember that there are a good supply of folks out there in among us that are a few bricks short of a load... In the Audi deal there were folks driving through store fronts...fronts and backs of their garages... and claimin' all kinds of weird stuff......even the standaed shifts were doin' the lurchin' bit... Goverment suggested...if I remember right...that it was probably the operators fault... And don't ferget the explodin' Chevy pickups... I think it was the tv program "Night Line" that got caught riggin' a Chevy pickup with explosives so the thing would blow on demand... Gonna be one hell of a class action suit would be my guess...better run yer Toymotor into a tree and get on the wagon... Franklin


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## quads (Mar 12, 2010)

mike1234 said:
			
		

> RowCropRenegade said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always just driven old junk, so I don't know anything about new cars, but Toyota builds a car that you cannot kill the engine anytime you want/need to?!  Oh my.  Are they the only ones that do this?


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## PAJerry (Mar 13, 2010)

Simply press the stop/start button 3 seconds and it stops. 3 seconds out of 20 minutes on the cell phone and the story is over.


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## begreen (Mar 13, 2010)

Had he hit the P button, it would have shifted to neutral instantly. You would have thought during 20 minutes that someone would have called the local Toyota dealer.


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## Jack Straw (Mar 14, 2010)

I saw a news report this morning where the now (in?-) famous driver of the Prius has been involved with schemes/lawsuits and a bankruptcy. He was behind on his payments on the car. His neighbors didn't speak too highly of him. It also sounded like the police were doubting his story. I'm sure if they check the computer on that car it will tell the real story. (did it get a WOT input for 20 minutes?)


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## Flatbedford (Mar 14, 2010)

I saw this on cnn
http://www.ireport.com/blogs/irepor...ersy-rages-over-runaway-toyota-story?hpt=Sbin


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## BrotherBart (Mar 14, 2010)

I got a laugh this morning reading the results of the testing done on the guy's care out in California. Toyota and gov't wienies said that they concluded it was impossible for it to run away if the guy just stomped on the brakes. Well, they had to replace all of the pads and rotors before they could do their tests because they were burned up and warped from the guy's runaway adventure. Duh.


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## fbelec (Mar 15, 2010)

i hope they can somehow put that guy away for fraud. this toyota thing is way out of hand and it is no laughing matter any more. there are way to many toyota's out there.


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## begreen (Mar 15, 2010)

Here's one possible scenario:

Realtor speeding on the freeway, spots a police car too late and knows he's nailed. Fakes a runaway car story to get out of the ticket cuz he will lose his license if he gets another speeding ticket. 

The 911 operator is begging him to shift to neutral and he is saying "I don't think I can, it might flip the car." Right.  :shut: 

Not saying the car is perfect, but in this case it seems that it's the nut behind the wheel that's the problem here. 

Or maybe the bankrupt operator of an internet swinger's website was just concerned that his lease was about to end on the car?


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## mayhem (Mar 15, 2010)

Oldmainer said:
			
		

> Hello all...shades of the Audi 5000 flap of thirty years or so ago...remember them?



Audi sudden acceleration fiasco was proven beyond the shadow of a doubt the be driver error.  It also happened to other makes like Ford T-Birds.  You are required to step on the brake pedal in order to shift out of Park today because of the Audi sudden acceleration issue.


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## begreen (Mar 16, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I got a laugh this morning reading the results of the testing done on the guy's care out in California. Toyota and gov't wienies said that they concluded it was impossible for it to run away if the guy just stomped on the brakes. Well, they had to replace all of the pads and rotors before they could do their tests because they were burned up and warped from the guy's runaway adventure. Duh.



Not surprising that the brakes were worn out. The on-board computer recorded at least 250 combos of acceleration, then braking during that 20 minute escapade. (250 was the storage limit of the computer.) Surprising the guy didn't complain of whiplash.


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