# Electric clothes dryer to hydronic conversion



## SnowTraveler (Sep 16, 2008)

My electric clothes dryer is a big contributor to my electric bill and I want to convert it to hydronic.   I am having no luck finding a conversion kit online, but there is one firm offering new dryers already converted.  I would prefer to do it myself, as my dryer is near new.   Anyone know of source of conversion kits? Has anyone else done it yet?   Yes, I do have a clothes line.

http://www.outdoorwoodfurnaceparts.com/new_page_8.htm


----------



## WonderingWoman (Sep 16, 2008)

Why not get a drying rack to dry your clothe on for free by evaporation? It also humidifies the house in winter. You can use a clothes line in fine weather...


----------



## free75degrees (Sep 16, 2008)

A clothes dryer is less work since you can just toss everything in and hit a button and is quicker too.  This sounds like a very cool idea.  I may have to research this when I get some more time.


----------



## WonderingWoman (Sep 16, 2008)

Actually, with a drying rack you sort the laundry as you hang it, so you have less work after when it comes to folding. You can use your dryer as back up.


----------



## BrownianHeatingTech (Sep 16, 2008)

If you do a search, this was discussed extensively in at least one thread.

The short answer is that it is possible, but requires a good bit of work/engineering to make it function correctly.

Drying time is likely to be longer, as well, so you need to balance the electrical usage of the motor with the savings by not running the elements.

Joe


----------



## pybyr (Sep 16, 2008)

take a look at the thread that I will paste at the bottom of this message for some interesting discussions. 

If you live in a climate where you need heat a lot more often than cooling, and as long as you have a horizontal-axis high efficiency washer that spins more of the water out of the clothes than an old top-loader, then a "condensing dryer" -- as are commonly used in Europe, may be one option.  I've had one 5 years and could not be happier with it   

It's not a hydronic dryer like you propose, but for those of us in cold climates, it does avoid regular North American dryer's ridiculous design of taking indoor air that (more often than not) you've already paid to heat, heating it up some more (more $$$), then dumping it outside, thereby creating a net depressurization of the house that'll draw in cold drafts elsewhere to make up for the dryer's exhaust air.

More often than not, I hang my clothes, maybe after giving them a very brief tumble in the dryer to initially de-rumple them, but the dryer is always a good back-up in damp spells or times when one is short on time

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/211454/


----------



## maurice (Sep 17, 2008)

I had not thought of that!  While I have not followed Pybyr's link, I will say this:

I have an older whirlpool dryer in use for 25+ years, and just salvaged spare parts off one given to me as scrap.  Maybe others are similar design.  The blower pulls air from inside the drum and throws it out thru that flex duct.  Air enters the drum thru a rectangular-ish tube with rounded edges.  The electric element slides up into that tube.  Replace the electric element with a "radiator" kind of like an aluminum/copper evaporator used in A/C or refrigeration!

To see how yours look without tearing it apart (SWMBO comes in and sees it in pieces!   ), do a google search for parts on your brand of dryer.  There are a few good websites that also have exploded views of parts.

Or pick up one at a junkyard, or on the curb, or other freebie, and experiment in the garage?


----------



## SnowTraveler (Sep 17, 2008)

http://www.outdoorwoodfurnaceparts.com/new_page_8.htm

These guys have done it.  

Yes, I do have a clothes line.


----------



## Sting (Sep 17, 2008)

industrial dryers that are heated other than by resistance or direct fire are heated with super hot steam -- well over 300 degrees

no pellet - corn - or chunk wood home owners boiler will put a dent in that requirement - In fact you will need more than a low pressure license to operate such a contraption.

Buy a clothes line,


----------



## pdboilermaker (Sep 17, 2008)

I actually thought of this when I put my boler in.  I have a whirlpool duet system.  I discussed it with boiler guy and he had this to say.  

"You could put a small coil inside the dryer, close to where the air intake is.  Hook it up to an auto valve that opens when the dryer motor starts turning and closes when the dryer is off.  By doing this, your dryer would be sucking in air that is 150-170 degrees rather than the 70 degree air that you normally suck in.  In THEORY, this would let the heating elements in the dryer stay off"

I just havent had the guts or the $225.00 to try it.


----------



## WonderingWoman (Sep 17, 2008)

You should check out the Lehmans site. They sell mostly non-electric items for simple living.

http://www.lehmans.com/index.jsp


----------



## SnowTraveler (Sep 17, 2008)

Ok, I get it.  Returning to lurking.


----------



## leaddog (Sep 17, 2008)

Racquel said:
			
		

> Ok, I get it.  Returning to lurking.


Please don't just stay lurking. None of the replies were meant to offened. It's just that every one has different ideas on how and what to do things. The more that things are put out there the more that we ALL learn.
leaddog


----------



## mpilihp (Sep 17, 2008)

My wife also like to dry on the line and in the winter dry on racks int he basement.  I personally dont care to, but then again Im not doing it.  If you have a system with storage and heating your dryer with water from storage it sould like a good way to save $$ if you dont want cloths hanging in your basement continuously.....  Laundry is never done it just changes colors...


----------



## WoodNotOil (Sep 18, 2008)

pdboilermaker said:
			
		

> I actually thought of this when I put my boler in.  I have a whirlpool duet system.  I discussed it with boiler guy and he had this to say.
> 
> "You could put a small coil inside the dryer, close to where the air intake is.  Hook it up to an auto valve that opens when the dryer motor starts turning and closes when the dryer is off.  By doing this, your dryer would be sucking in air that is 150-170 degrees rather than the 70 degree air that you normally suck in.  In THEORY, this would let the heating elements in the dryer stay off"
> 
> I just havent had the guts or the $225.00 to try it.



I think the theory here is sound and that specific drier would have to be looked at throughly before going ahead.  As shown in one of the links here, there are converted ones that you can buy.  I also have a friend who's father converted his drier for use with an OWB.  As long as you system has the heat to spare, it can operate as another zone triggered by the drier motor.  I think the idea is definitely worth pursuing on this forum and when a good design is developed people can choose for themselves what is more practical.  In larger households drying everything on the line or racks is not possible.  We do so much laundry per day that 1-2 loads still get done in the drier, even with a couple loads on the line/rack.  I for one want to eventually try it.  Anyone have any leads on what coils these guys are using http://www.outdoorwoodfurnaceparts.com/new_page_8.htm?


----------



## maurice (Sep 19, 2008)

Racquel said:
			
		

> Ok, I get it.  Returning to lurking.



Don't get discouraged!  If you don't want to change your own dryer until you are sure, just keep eyes open for a junk one.  Just last week, son-in-law's sister gave him TWO washers and TWO dryers.  SIL took his pick and gave the others to me for scrap out.

I was trying to diagnose a gas dryer a while back - I checked the air temp in the dryer.  It ranged from 170 to 200 degrees if I remember.  

Also, maybe just maybe some were trying to be funny with the clothes-lines?


----------



## Duetech (Sep 19, 2008)

To do it yourself with low capital investment try hooking a car heater coil to the air intake of your electric dryer. Car heating coils vary in size and cost and are made to handle the pressure and heat but you would want to filter the air intake to prevent clogging the heater core. One other major concern would be whether or not you have corrosion inhibitors in your boiler system water supply.The sheet metal work would not be exhaustive but running the lines from the boiler might. If, as the one gent says, your heating elements stay off, you may see a savings in used electricity. Or as mentioned before the air going in would be warmer than would normally be introduced and may result in shorter heating element run times and resulting lower electricity bills. One other thing to consider is whether or not you can put your home made conversion kit in your laundry room with out taking out a wall as some laundry rooms (like mine) seem to have been built just for the washer and dryer. In the winter venting into the home can boost needed humidity and some local big stores carry kits with tubes and lint screen filters for that purpose and doing so would at least lower the negative pressure that would draw in outside air. As an added bonus you would be throwing warm air back into the home from energy that you were already producing. Unless you run the dryer 24-7 you probably won't see much difference in wood consumption. One diminutive bonus is the temperature from your boiler kit would be lower and less harsh on your clothes but would take longer to dry them. Front load washers generally get more water out than a top load. Probably don't need a new washer yet do you? You know the wife's birthday or one of those other days? A lot of jargon for conjecture. Good luck...Cave2k


----------



## Nofossil (Sep 19, 2008)

There was a very long thread on this topic last year. Basic problem is that effective clothes drying requires air temps around 250-260 degrees. Not going to get that with wood boiler :-(

Racquel - I'll echo everyone else - don't get discouraged. Some ideas turn out not to work for one reason or another. However, even if only 10% turn out useful, that's a whole lot better than none. Keep questioning and thinking. There's plenty of things that haven't been thought of or haven't really been though out yet.

Now if you want to talk about crushing disappointment, I spent time putting together a post with a picture and everything that I thought was really interesting. It sank without a trace - not a single reply. I still haven't recovered from the trauma.

I was in Lyndonville last week. If I ever make it up to Island Pond I'll give a shout. Is the Buck and Doe still there?


----------



## sdrobertson (Sep 19, 2008)

nofossil said:
			
		

> Now if you want to talk about crushing disappointment, I spent time putting together a post with a picture and everything that I thought was really interesting. It sank without a trace - not a single reply. I still haven't recovered from the trauma.



I'm sure I'm not alone in thoroughly enjoying ready all of your information even though sometimes I'm lost in all of the technology.  I'm trying to learn about the computer control and information monitoring that you do with your web site but my data processing classes were a long, long time ago.


----------



## Nofossil (Sep 19, 2008)

sdrobertson said:
			
		

> I'm sure I'm not alone in thoroughly enjoying ready all of your information even though sometimes I'm lost in all of the technology.  I'm trying to learn about the computer control and information monitoring that you do with your web site but my data processing classes were a long, long time ago.



I MIGHT have you beat on this one. My data processing class (my only formal computer education) was a 7 week freshman introduction to Fortran - on punch cards.


----------



## sdrobertson (Sep 19, 2008)

nofossil said:
			
		

> sdrobertson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are correct - I was just after punch cards - and if memory serves correctly - I think it was cobalt maybe


----------



## WoodNotOil (Sep 19, 2008)

I don't understand why this idea is being dismissed so easily.  Are people saying they think this companies product is not for real: http://www.outdoorwoodfurnaceparts.com/new_page_8.htm

They claim to do this using a "Hydronic Coil & Pump, In and Outlet for Hydronic Lines, and Name Brand Dryer" on an OWB.  That means the water probably isn't over 180*.  OR... are people saying that if it works it isn't any more efficient than electricity or nat. gas because of running the pump etc.

I emailed the company asking if they ever sell just the conversion stuff without the dryer.  I'll let you guys know what they say.  I will also try to get details on the type of hydronic coil they use.


----------



## free75degrees (Sep 19, 2008)

WoodNotOil said:
			
		

> I don't understand why this idea is being dismissed so easily.



I have not dismissed it.  heck if all else fails maybe i'll just throw my clothes directly into the tarm!


----------



## Sting (Sep 20, 2008)

No one should dismiss an idea until they have a clear view that it works or doesn't.


----------



## Redox (Sep 20, 2008)

free75degrees said:
			
		

> WoodNotOil said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As long as they aren't synthetic fiber, this would work!  You have to be quick to get them back out, though...

I don't think anyone said that a hydronic dryer wouldn't work, but don't expect it to dry clothes as fast as a regular dryer.  It would probably be roughly as fast as a regular dryer on low heat, but it will work!

Pick up a used dryer on Craigslist or something and hack away.  I would suggest a Whirlpool or Sears dryer as they have a small intake area with either a gas burner or an electric element in it.  Stuff a heater core or something in it and try it out.  Then post some pics back here and let us know how it works.  I would love to see someone make this work.

I'd do it, but for the time...

Chris


----------



## Duetech (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't know why it would require 250-260 degrees f to dry your clothes in a dryer. It's the flow of air that dries the clothes coupled with the heat not the heat itself. It just takes time. As was mentioned before you could use a clothes line and they never get to 250-260. Load size, time and power consumption are the determining factors here. The natural properties of flowing warm air on water will cause the drier to work. Air flow, load size and how wet the load is will determine how long it takes to dry. As for power consumption the primary plus or minus for operation is the amount of power used by the heating elements versus the extended amount of drying time used by the blower/drum motor. Under normal usage the blower motor that turns the drum is running any way. Since the original query was based on economic feasibility we are reduced to an uncertain equation. Element ampere consumption for (? time) versus extended run blower ampere consumption (? time). Because we do not know the specific ampere/wattage of either component nor the extended drying time needed we can only guestimate but for simplification most heating elements are rated at or above 1500 watts 220 VAC. Some I have seen take 2200 watts 220 VAC and there are bigger ones. Simplistically If your motor takes 1/4 of the power of your elements you can fairly assume a break even point of 4 to 1. 1 hr regular vs 4 hrs extended run time. Find the draw rates of your elements and your motor and you can determine the specifics. There is probably a tag on the back or bottom front of your dryer that gives the specifics. To prove the capabilities of lower temperature just turn your drier to "no heat-fluff" setting and stick a wet towel in. Eventually it will dry.  I use an electric dryer by Frigidaire and heat my home and dhw by an EKO 40. What I save in propane and fuel oil offsets the cost of using my dryer as intended and, though I'm a dreamer at times, I am also lazy enough to see the value in that. Not having seen the hydronic dryers up close I can't be sure but I think they have probably increase air flow to reduce drying time to satisfy the hurried age we live in....Cave2k


----------



## free75degrees (Sep 20, 2008)

Cave2k said:
			
		

> I don't know why it would require 250-260 degrees f to dry your clothes in a dryer. It's the flow of air that dries the clothes coupled with the heat not the heat itself. It just takes time. As was mentioned before you could use a clothes line and they never get to 250-260. Load size, time and power consumption are the determining factors here. The natural properties of flowing warm air on water will cause the drier to work. Air flow, load size and how wet the load is will determine how long it takes to dry. As for power consumption the primary plus or minus for operation is the amount of power used by the heating elements versus the extended amount of drying time used by the blower/drum motor. Under normal usage the blower motor that turns the drum is running any way. Since the original query was based on economic feasibility we are reduced to an uncertain equation. Element ampere consumption for (? time) versus extended run blower ampere consumption (? time). Because we do not know the specific ampere/wattage of either component nor the extended drying time needed we can only guestimate but for simplification most heating elements are rated at or above 1500 watts 220 VAC. Some I have seen take 2200 watts 220 VAC and there are bigger ones. Simplistically If your motor takes 1/4 of the power of your elements you can fairly assume a break even point of 4 to 1. 1 hr regular vs 4 hrs extended run time. Find the draw rates of your elements and your motor and you can determine the specifics. There is probably a tag on the back or bottom front of your dryer that gives the specifics. To prove the capabilities of lower temperature just turn your drier to "no heat-fluff" setting and stick a wet towel in. Eventually it will dry.  I use an electric dryer by Frigidaire and heat my home and dhw by an EKO 40. What I save in propane and fuel oil offsets the cost of using my dryer as intended and, though I'm a dreamer at times, I am also lazy enough to see the value in that. Not having seen the hydronic dryers up close I can't be sure but I think they have probably increase air flow to reduce drying time to satisfy the hurried age we live in....Cave2k


yeah... what he said.


----------



## BrownianHeatingTech (Sep 20, 2008)

WoodNotOil said:
			
		

> I don't understand why this idea is being dismissed so easily.  Are people saying they think this companies product is not for real: http://www.outdoorwoodfurnaceparts.com/new_page_8.htm
> 
> They claim to do this using a "Hydronic Coil & Pump, In and Outlet for Hydronic Lines, and Name Brand Dryer" on an OWB.  That means the water probably isn't over 180*.  OR... are people saying that if it works it isn't any more efficient than electricity or nat. gas because of running the pump etc.
> 
> I emailed the company asking if they ever sell just the conversion stuff without the dryer.  I'll let you guys know what they say.  I will also try to get details on the type of hydronic coil they use.



Using 160-degree air (for example) will dry the clothes, but will take longer to do so.  The added cost of running the motor/pumps for such an extended period "probably" outweighs the energy savings, unless your wood is "free."

Also, you would have to have the boiler running, or just ended a fire, in order to produce those kind of temperatures, which means that you couldn't just dry your clothes whenever you wanted.  Some might not want to deal with the inconvenience.

Still, I think there's nothing _unsolvable_ in these issues.  It just depends upon how much you are willing to spend on development.  For example, more-efficient ECM motors for the drum, fan, and circulator would reduce the electrical usage.  A large heat exchanger to make good use of lower water temperatures would solve the scheduling issue to some extent.  The "condensing" technology that Trevor mentioned could further reduce the energy cost, if it could be integrated properly.

It all depends upon what one is willing to invest in testing/development.

Joe


----------



## sdrobertson (Jul 16, 2009)

This is a old thread but I was surfing and stumbled across this...and its fun to review the older posts....

www.raycotechnologies.org/how_to_build_a_wood_fired_clothe.htm


----------



## Gooserider (Jul 16, 2009)

Not bad, though I would be a bit nervous about some of his construction techniques - it wasn't clear what he was using for his stove pipe material, and I know galvanized metal is definitely NOT OK on stove piping...  Also you have the same potential condensation / creosote issues that any of the heat reclaimer type products would have, possibly more so because of the air volume going through it...

Not a hydronic version, but still a reasonable approach, and sounds like he is using similar temperatures...

Gooserider


----------



## Fred61 (Jul 16, 2009)

Lower heat may be easier on the clothes but the increased tumbling time means you will be removing more of that shirt from the dryer as lint.


----------



## Bad Wolf (Jul 16, 2009)

It would be interesting to compare the cost extra time vs. electrically heated air.  The only reason to heat the air is that the hotter the air the more water it can hold. 
If I had the time I could see getting a Craigs list freebie dryer putting, it near the boiler and hooking it up.  In the wither I'm running the boiler wide open at least twice a day and could schedule laundry around that.  I would keep my regular dryer for the other time or when you need something dried fast.  Like my son putting his one wet shirt in an already dry load ten minutes before he has to go to work.


----------



## Dune (Jul 19, 2009)

I think this is a great idea. Electric dryer elements are either 5000 or 5500 watts. Clearly the extended use of the motor would be far cheaper than a shorter duration with the 5000 watt elements also consuming electricity. If I wasn't so deap into my co-gen project, I would get right on this. Instead, it will be added to the back of my already long list of alternate energy/home improvement projects. The link to the offgrid guy makes it clear how simple this project is. Remove the drier element, replace with an automotive heatercore of an apropriate size. Instead of a zone, I would supply it with mono-flo tees, and put a ballvalve on one side. When you want to dry clothes, open a ball valve and hit the start button. Like many such ideas, this might not work for everyone, but for some of us it could be great. If you already have a sidearm water heater, your next largest consumer of electricity is the clothes dryer.


----------



## pdboilermaker (Jul 22, 2009)

Why not put a small water to air heat exchanger inside the dryer near the air intake?  That way the air that is being "sucked" into the dryer is already at 160-170 degree range, well above abmiaent air temp?  This way, the heat coils may never need to fire on the dryer because the input air is over or nearly to the thermostat requirements of the dryer?


----------



## Sting (Jul 22, 2009)

Because:  A "small" HX running at 170-180 will not have close enough transfer efficiency to produce more than smidgen of temperature rise on the CFM drawn into the appliance.

Folks -- Ill state it again -- there is a reason that appliance manufactures run household dryers at 240 to 260 degrees and the products of combustion run out at 160 to 180.  Industrial laundry appliances use steam input at over 300 degrees for effecent and fast operation of 75 to 150 lb loads.  If they configured the gas or resistance train to run cooler - The clothes do not dry, and the energy input is wasted. Drying clothes on air dry only takes forever - the energy expended in the air only tumble action will be more that would have been expended running the appliance as designed.

Give it up and get a wash line outdoors in the summer!  Hang the clothes in the basement when the air is so dry that your skin is cracking. Hang in the boiler room when your not opening the glory hole to stoke! Hang clothes in sunny freezing weather and let those pants freeze-dry. Fresh laundry off the line requires no fabric softener and smells better too.


----------



## Sting (Jul 22, 2009)

yeah -- guess my miss spent youth continues to provide fodder for the vultures to pick at.  Grandma used to hang out the "WASH" so its always been the WASHLINE  hehehehe   -- Your may like soda vs pop  -- or bubbler vs water fountain  -- what ever

All I know is this thread about a hot water HX charging a clothes drying appliance is a waste of time.


----------



## Dune (Jul 23, 2009)

Sting said:
			
		

> Because:  A "small" HX running at 170-180 will not have close enough transfer efficiency to produce more than smidgen of temperature rise on the CFM drawn into the appliance.
> 
> Folks -- Ill state it again -- there is a reason that appliance manufactures run household dryers at 240 to 260 degrees and the products of combustion run out at 160 to 180.  Industrial laundry appliances use steam input at over 300 degrees for effecent and fast operation of 75 to 150 lb loads.  If they configured the gas or resistance train to run cooler - The clothes do not dry, and the energy input is wasted. Drying clothes on air dry only takes forever - the energy expended in the air only tumble action will be more that would have been expended running the appliance as designed.
> 
> Give it up and get a wash line outdoors in the summer!  Hang the clothes in the basement when the air is so dry that your skin is cracking. Hang in the boiler room when your not opening the glory hole to stoke! Hang clothes in sunny freezing weather and let those pants freeze-dry. Fresh laundry off the line requires no fabric softener and smells better too.



So are you saying that the people who build the machines for sale at the link provided by the original poster are just full of it? That their product is junk and their website is all lies?


----------



## Sting (Jul 23, 2009)

ummm 

What conclusion would you draw?


----------



## Dune (Jul 23, 2009)

Sting said:
			
		

> ummm
> 
> What conclusion would you draw?
> 
> I woulnd't bet my life on it, but I would guess that it works, maybe not as fast as gas or electric, but considering the $436 dollar electric bill that I got for june, I am willing to try most anything. We do hang more than half of our laundry by the way. All compact floresent lighting, new energy star fridge and hot water heater, no ac, something has to give.


----------



## SnowTraveler (Jul 23, 2009)

Still lurking, here every day but not a frequent poster.  Last season (my second) was phenomenal with my econoburn 150, 7 to 8 cords of wood to heat roughly 3000 square feet of house, part of a garage, and my hot water.   I WILL be doing the clothes dryer conversion this fall.  I will post my results later, so let this thread dry up till then.


----------



## Sting (Jul 23, 2009)

Still disbelievers  -- well wishers -- folks that think they can win the lottery without buying a ticket  

Of course the advertised conversion works

so does a clothes dryer on air only 

I won't again impose thoughts already posted to debunk this idea - Free country - have a nice day and all that 

But IF you can look past the rose tint of the glasses your wearing - You  should ask yourself WHY every appliance manufacturer IN THE WORLD runs at the temperatures I have posted to make their product, competitive and useful in the market? Because if they could cut their gas or resistance input and advertise how well it works ---> they would corner the market.


And that's all I have to say about that. Should make some happy to have me "dried up".


----------



## EnergyNut (Jul 28, 2009)

This is the first time I have used a blog.

Most dryers (gas or electric) use a 1/4 HP motor to turn the drum.  That is equivalent to 0.25 * 746 = 137 watts.

The heating element in an electric dryer uses between 3.3 and 5 kilowatts.

Therefore you could run a hydronic clothes dryer (heated by solar, wood boiler, etc) all day (if necessary) and still use less electricity than drying one load with electricity.

I think hydronic clothes dryers make good sense.  Don't get discouraged by opinionated replies.


----------



## pdboilermaker (Jul 28, 2009)

Dunebilly said:
			
		

> Sting said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



WOW, thats 2 months worth of a bill in Indiana during the summer when I am running 2 central air units.  Obama's coal ban/tax will kill you


----------

