# Critique my woodshed design.



## TheLastDeadMouse (Feb 19, 2014)

Hello all.

I'm looking to build a woodshed this spring, but have never designed any sort of freestanding structure. This is what I have after an evening in Sketchup.  I'm hoping that the people that have been there before me and give me a little advice.  Each of the 4 bays is roughly 4'x6'x6'.  I figure if I stack the wood three rows deep it will hold about 3 full cord.




The main points I'm wondering about are

1. Is this drastically over or underbuilt considering the load?
2. Can I get away with using these concrete support blocks or will I need to pour sonotubes?
3. The roof drops 2' over a 6' run, is this enough for the snow?
4.  Any miscellaneous other details I haven't thought of?

Thanks for the help, I've learned a lot just reading so far.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 19, 2014)

Should the length of your splits be considered?  For example, with 16" splits you could only fit 3 rows.  4 rows would be 64" +.


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## mass_burner (Feb 19, 2014)

I think it depends more in where its positioned in relation to sun/wind. I think sono tubes are overkill IMO. I am in the process of this type of design myself, just have the floor and sides up so far. I would also leave more space between the slats on the sides/back for air flow.


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## gzecc (Feb 19, 2014)

I think it looks well built except the drop roof eve 2x6. Don't see how that will be supported. Maybe eliminate that and make the roof rafter much longer. Enough to overhang the front and back. Front to prevent rain and snow from entering and the back to provide cover for and a stack of wood under it.
I would also use some simpson metal fasterners on the roof rafters.


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## PapaDave (Feb 19, 2014)

How will the shed be attached to the blocks? Blocks to the ground?
I agree with gzecc in that you should make the rafters longer to reduce splashback from rain and melting snow. I like the front overhang, and several here have done it that way.
Do the Simpson rafter ties too.


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## bigbarf48 (Feb 19, 2014)

Looks pretty good to me. The concrete blocks will be fine

Like mass burner said maybe consider more spacing between your slats for better air flow


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## Jon1270 (Feb 19, 2014)

I think you could do with just one post in the middle of the open side, instead of three, and that would make access easier.

I'd also add a few diagonal braces to keep it from leaning over to one side or another.


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## TheLastDeadMouse (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm not sure what length my splits will be at this point, I'll be buying green from a local supplier in the spring.  I figured 6' long is enough to get three rows of anything that will fit in my stove. 

Due to the yard layout the front of the shed will be facing Northeast.  I'm considering making the roof out of corrugated polycarbonate in the back to let the sun in and cedar shakes on the front for looks.

The drop rafters in the front will be bolted at the top to the main roof rafter beside it (I didn't do a great job drawing this in the model).  I'm thinking maybe running another 2x6x16 along the underside and then attaching diagonal supports to the 4x4 posts.

I'm planning on using hurricane clips when attaching the rafters.

I believe the 4x4 posts just sit in the precast concrete blocks, which sit on the ground.  I'm sure they're enough to carry the load, but I'm concerned with frost heave.


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## blazincajun (Feb 19, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> ...I'd also add a few diagonal braces to keep it from leaning over to one side or another.


 
Maybe attach the side slats at a 45°(degree symbol = Alt + 0176) angle for bracing and will provide a nice effect.


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## Jon1270 (Feb 19, 2014)

TheLastDeadMouse said:


> The drop rafters in the front will be bolted at the top to the main roof rafter beside it (I didn't do a great job drawing this in the model). I'm thinking maybe running another 2x6x16 along the underside and then attaching diagonal supports to the 4x4 posts.



You will need the diagonal supports for this. It will not fare well if you rely only on bolts at one end.


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## gzecc (Feb 19, 2014)

TheLastDeadMouse said:


> I'm not sure what length my splits will be at this point, I'll be buying green from a local supplier in the spring.  I figured 6' long is enough to get three rows of anything that will fit in my stove.
> 
> Due to the yard layout the front of the shed will be facing Northeast.  I'm considering making the roof out of corrugated polycarbonate in the back to let the sun in and cedar shakes on the front for looks.
> 
> ...


 Any time you have a structure just sitting on the ground in cold climate you will have some frost heave. Put down a base of quarry process (qp). dig down about 6" and fill it up if you feel so inclined. It will also discourage varmints from trying to live under it. They don't like the stone.


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## paul bunion (Feb 19, 2014)

Double up the 2x8 ridge (if that is even necessary) and only use one vertical 4x4 in the middle.

Make the dimensions of the shed so that you can use pallets for your flooring and save yourself $.  

You will eventually decide to stack something under the front overhang, consider bringing out the floor a bit.


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## JustWood (Feb 19, 2014)

Jon1270 said:


> I think you could do with just one post in the middle of the open side, instead of three, and that would make access easier.
> 
> I'd also add a few diagonal braces to keep it from leaning over to one side or another.


I agree. Go with a bigger header or add an inside header also and eliminate post 2 & 3.


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## razerface (Feb 19, 2014)

i like the front 3 uprights, and maybe it needs more?, in fact i  think it would be better to design it to stack from front to back, using the uprights at the end of the rows to hold the wood in. If you go 3 rows deep crossways, you cannot get to the back row until you use the other 2 in front of it,,and cannot stack more in there as you are using wood until it is empty..

If the rows are shorter, and go from front to back,,as you use a row, it could be replaced with green wood as you use the next row of seasoned wood. I would add some uprights to hold the end of each row,  depending on how many rows would fit. You could make rows of different type wood if you wanted, and still have access to any row, at any time.


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## mstoelton (Feb 19, 2014)

1x6 planking on the floor may not withstand a full load of heavy wood.


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## razerface (Feb 19, 2014)

mstoelton said:


> 1x6 planking on the floor may not withstand a full load of heavy wood.


it should, skids are lighter weight then what he shows,, and they do it.


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## valley ranch (Feb 19, 2014)

Just curious, what is going to keep the front shed overhang up? Do you get much snow there?

I just read Jon's post, 5 angle braces/gussets would be good.

Richard


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## gzecc (Feb 19, 2014)

razerface said:


> it should, skids are lighter weight then what he shows,, and they do it.


 Upgrade to 5/4 but the more upgrades the more the cost.


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## muncybob (Feb 19, 2014)

If you are storing already well seasoned dry wood I would not worry about the sides with respect to air flow. My 3 sides are 1X6 green cut pine that shrunk and I have small gaps(1/2"?) for air flow. I have a row of wood that has been in there for 3 years and it's looking as good as the day I put it in there....but it was very dry when put in. The only other advice I can add is something I read here before building my shed...decide how big you want the shed and build it bigger!


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## gzecc (Feb 19, 2014)

muncybob said:


> If you are storing already well seasoned dry wood I would not worry about the sides with respect to air flow. My 3 sides are 1X6 green cut pine that shrunk and I have small gaps(1/2"?) for air flow. I have a row of wood that has been in there for 3 years and it's looking as good as the day I put it in there....but it was very dry when put in. The only other advice I can add is something I read here before building my shed...decide how big you want the shed and build it bigger!


 
In most areas you can build a shed without tax ramifications that is < 100 sq ft.


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## mass_burner (Feb 19, 2014)

gzecc said:


> In most areas you can build a shed without tax ramifications that is < 100 sq ft.


 

Tax ramifications? Do you mean real estate taxes?


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## gzecc (Feb 19, 2014)

mass_burner said:


> Tax ramifications? Do you mean real estate taxes?


 
yes


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## TheLastDeadMouse (Feb 19, 2014)

I've added some detail from the suggestions given here.  Added in the diagonal bracing, hurricane clips, and bracing for the overhang.  As drawn now the woodshed is 96 sq ft, I haven't check into local laws about permitting, tax implications, ect. yet.  I wanted to have a good idea of what I was going to be building before I got into it too much.  The slats on the wall as drawn are 1x6 dimensional lumber (.75 x 5.5 actual) with 2" spacing.  This may change once I see it in person, its hard for me to picture what the right spacing would be.


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## wahoowad (Feb 19, 2014)

That thing is going to be so nice you better run a electrical feed to it for your beer fridge, wifi and cable TV. 

I just downladed that program to sketch up my own woodshed desgign. Where do I get the 2x4 drawing objects?!?!?!


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## xman23 (Feb 19, 2014)

What are you doing for a roof?  I would have 8" overhang rear and sides. The floor is nice but it may be more trouble than good. If you go with shed foundation blocks ,underpin down so it doesn't blow over in high winds.


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## gzecc (Feb 20, 2014)

TheLastDeadMouse said:


> I've added some detail from the suggestions given here.  Added in the diagonal bracing, hurricane clips, and bracing for the overhang.  As drawn now the woodshed is 96 sq ft, I haven't check into local laws about permitting, tax implications, ect. yet.  I wanted to have a good idea of what I was going to be building before I got into it too much.  The slats on the wall as drawn are 1x6 dimensional lumber (.75 x 5.5 actual) with 2" spacing.  This may change once I see it in person, its hard for me to picture what the right spacing would be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Throw some of these into the rafters. Very strong.
http://tcsportcharlotte.com/simpson-h11z-hurricane-clip-tie-z-max.aspx


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## Hoozie (Feb 20, 2014)

Make sure you get some blocking between the rafters.  Will stiffen everything up, and help keep them from twisting.  (2x4 perpendicular to the rafters, between each one)

As for the foundation... Assuming there's always something in it, I wouldn't worry about the wind carrying it away.  But, if it was ever empty, that may be a possibility?

This is basically what I was planning to build, only a bit bigger, and probably with sonotubes to hold it against the sometimes wild wind we get.


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## wahoowad (Feb 20, 2014)

xman23 said:


> If you go with shed foundation blocks ,underpin down so it doesn't blow over in high winds.



I was going to use these same style blocks for my roof. How do I underpin?


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## glennm (Feb 20, 2014)

Mine is 16x8 open front and back. The flooring collapsed in mine and I had to unload it and pour concrete. Have the floor sit on the ground, maybe put down some gravel first?  It will be solid that way!  I also put a divider in the centre, it makes the rows more stable for sure!  That way you can take out one side if you wish


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## billb3 (Feb 20, 2014)

I'd run all the floor joists N/S rather than half of them short E/W like that
less cutting, less hardware 
and use 5/4 decking E/W

easier to run a 4x4 under if the weight starts bowing the joists, shouldn't if they are blocked


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## BEConklin (Feb 20, 2014)

TheLastDeadMouse said:


> I've added some detail from the suggestions given here.  Added in the diagonal bracing, hurricane clips, and bracing for the overhang.  As drawn now the woodshed is 96 sq ft, I haven't check into local laws about permitting, tax implications, ect. yet.  I wanted to have a good idea of what I was going to be building before I got into it too much.  The slats on the wall as drawn are 1x6 dimensional lumber (.75 x 5.5 actual) with 2" spacing.  This may change once I see it in person, its hard for me to picture what the right spacing would be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But those diagonal bracings for the overhang force you to keep all those posts in the front. Otherwise you could remove all but the center post. For that reason alone I'd re-think having the front roof that way and maybe have a simple lean-to roof with a slightly larger overhang in the front.
If you're set on saving the roof style that you have, I think you should make the roof with triangular trusses and bring your front posts out so that they are forward of a plumb line directly under the "peak" of the dual pitch roof instead of behind that line as they are now.

That will not only support the roof better - but will also make the interior of the shed larger while keeping the same roof size.


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## valley ranch (Feb 20, 2014)

Re: post #23 I like that, very good.

Richard


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## BEConklin (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm no engineer - but I drew this up to give you an idea of what I mean...it does not show the features of the side walls - but it shows the front and rear posts and an idea for the saltbox roof truss. You need to choose the angles and the lumber dimensions. Each set of roof rafters would be assembled as a truss.

Alongside the top of the front post you'll see a 2X8 - with that and another attached to the front of the posts and running the width of the shed, I think you should be able to have only one center post and the two side posts - yet your dual angle roof would be fully supported. The drawback to this design would be that you'll need more lumber - but you'll have more floor space in your shed as well.

I do think this is needlessly complicated - it would be simpler with a lean to roof - but I think something like this would be needed if you really want a dual angle or "saltbox" style roof with a protruding front overhang that extends beyond the front wall of the shed itself

If you want more of an overhang, I think you should be able to move the front posts back past the vertical members of the roof trusses - but not too far.


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## BEConklin (Feb 20, 2014)

'doh - I should have brought my camera today when I went back to our other house which will soon be on the market....we have a 24' X12 shed there with a saltbox roof that overhangs....I'm pretty sure the rafters are all 2x6 or smaller - but they're set up in trusses and have held up to snow loads of 24" + for years.  I might be going back tomorrow - if so I'll take a few pics from the inside.


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## xman23 (Feb 23, 2014)

wahoowad said:


> I was going to use these same style blocks for my roof. How do I underpin?


 I haven't used those shed foundation blocks that sit on the ground. They do look like a good way to keep the wood away from ground contact.  I did have a lite metal shed blow over, so that's my concern with not having a connection to the ground. One idea is rebar driven into the ground at the corners and tied to the posts. Maybe the manufacture of the blocks have other solutions.


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## Archer39 (Feb 23, 2014)

BEConklin said:


> 'doh - I should have brought my camera today when I went back to our other house which will soon be on the market....we have a 24' X12 shed there with a saltbox roof that overhangs....I'm pretty sure the rafters are all 2x6 or smaller - but they're set up in trusses and have held up to snow loads of 24" + for years.  I might be going back tomorrow - if so I'll take a few pics from the inside.




Have you had a chance to take any pictures if your shed? What you described is the exact shed I want to build. I am not very good with the design aspect of construction but I can build anything from pictures or a sketch.


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## dleeallen (Feb 23, 2014)

I think you want the headers on top of the posts. That way there is no shear on bolts.  I have 3 posts on mine that spans about 20'. Header is 2x8 doubled up. Other side is attached to the back of my garage. Simple metal roof. Held up to vt snow so far!


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## BEConklin (Feb 24, 2014)

Archer39 said:


> Have you had a chance to take any pictures if your shed? What you described is the exact shed I want to build. I am not very good with the design aspect of construction but I can build anything from pictures or a sketch.



Sorry - I haven't been able to get back over there - and I won't be able to do so today either. Maybe tomorrow though.


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## BEConklin (Feb 24, 2014)

I had to go over there after all...

snapped some pics.

Apologies for the freakin' mess....we're still in the process of moving stuff out

This shed is 8 years old now and it's held up to some of the worst snow loads I've seen in my entire life here in CT. 






Above is a shot of as much of the inside as I could get. To the right in the background, you're looking at the inside of a small covered porch built into the shed.
All the trusses and wall studs are 2X4s set up 16" on center. The plywood on the roof is 1/2"
To the right is the front of the shed. You can see 2X6 blocking tying the top of the front wall to the roof trusses - but the only reason they used 2X6 and not 2X4 is so that the overhang of the 2X6 over the 2X4 stud wall would give them something to nail the plywood to when the made the soffet under the overhang.








Above is looking up into the trusses - the front of the shed is to your left.






same as the other pic....front to your left







Above picture shows you how the trusses are tied in at the top of the rear wall.







and this above pic shows you how they tie in at the front wall. note the oversized 2x6 blocking and the plywood making up the soffet for the overhang in the front.


The next pix show a sweep from the rear to the front.





















Hope this helps!


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## boilERIK (Feb 25, 2014)

Instead of wood slats on the sides of your structure consider using stock panels from an agriculture store. They are a heavy gauge 3/16" galvanized wire fencing product with approximately 4x4 holes. It is incredibly durable and would make an excellent material to retain the wood on the outsides of the shed and allow for maximum ventilation.they cost about $20 bucks at tractor supply and are 54" tall by 16' long. Also consider using corrugated metal roofing nailing the 2x4 perlins perpendicular to the rafters will alleviate the need for blocking the rafters. with a metal roof the snow will fall of it more readily and the roof will be less susceptible to condensation on the underside due to the snow insulating the ply wood and causing a situation were condensation will occur in the early spring when air temps are warm but there is still snow. it will create a better drying environment.


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