# Vermont Castings Intrepid w/cat gets too hot too easily.  What am I doing wrong?



## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is the history:  Vermont Castings Intrepid model 1308 with a cat.  6 inch rear exit flue hooked into a new stainless flex liner all the way to the top with the cap, etc. on it.  No insulation on pipe, and I have a block off plate.  I keep a wood stove thermometer on the griddle on the top.  This stove is a front or top load. It does have a small firebox, so I try to keep a small fire in it but it really wants to get too hot too easily.  I feel like I have to babysit the stove.  the manual I downloaded off line said to not let the stove get over 750 degrees, and to flip it to "CAT" when the temp got to 450 Degrees.  It seems to go up to 750 degrees without a lot of fire.  We do have good seasoned wood.  It's like I have a hot stove with 2 or 3 little sticks!  The family has been calling it the kindling burner as it is efficient with making heat with a little wood.  I just feel like I am always fooling with it.  Adjusting damper, checking temps.  When the temp gets to 750 degrees, I have been setting a box fan on low 3 feet from it to cool it down so it does not get damaged. What am I doing wrong?

Also, chimney is not that high, it was 13 feet from top to floor of old fireplace. 

I am also used to my big monster Crosswinds wood furnace in the basement, that just eats wood. It is old school I know, but we just load it and go to bed.  I have to really watch the intrepid, and have stayed up with it when I wasn't comfortable with the temps on top.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> Here is the history:  Vermont Castings Intrepid model 1308 with a cat.  6 inch rear exit flue hooked into a new stainless flex liner all the way to the top with the cap, etc. on it.  No insulation on pipe, and I have a block off plate.  I keep a wood stove thermometer on the griddle on the top.  This stove is a front or top load. It does have a small firebox, so I try to keep a small fire in it but it really wants to get too hot too easily.  I feel like I have to babysit the stove.  the manual I downloaded off line said to not let the stove get over 750 degrees, and to flip it to "CAT" when the temp got to 450 Degrees.  It seems to go up to 750 degrees without a lot of fire.  We do have good seasoned wood.  It's like I have a hot stove with 2 or 3 little sticks!  The family has been calling it the kindling burner as it is efficient with making heat with a little wood.  I just feel like I am always fooling with it.  Adjusting damper, checking temps.  When the temp gets to 750 degrees, I have been setting a box fan on low 3 feet from it to cool it down so it does not get damaged. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Also, chimney is not that high, it was 13 feet from top to floor of old fireplace.
> 
> I am also used to my big monster Crosswinds wood furnace in the basement, that just eats wood. It is old school I know, but we just load it and go to bed.  I have to really watch the intrepid, and have stayed up with it when I wasn't comfortable with the temps on top.



I have a 1308. I like to run it hot when I can. Have you checked your main air control in the back right of the stove? Are your seals around the double glass layer lined up and tight? Good gaskets?


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## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

One thing I noticed about the rear air control that is controlled by the skinny thin lever on top--is-- when you push it all the way to the right which is the Minus side it does not shut all the way.  Maybe the chain is too short?   is it supposed to shut all the way? It shuts almost all the way however


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> One thing I noticed about the rear air control that is controlled by the skinny thin lever on top--is-- when you push it all the way to the right which is the Minus side it does not shut all the way.  Maybe the chain is too short?   is it supposed to shut all the way? It shuts almost all the way however



You can adjust the chain.


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## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

OK I will try to let the chain out tomorrow when the stove cools down.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> OK I will try to let the chain out tomorrow when the stove cools down.




I would also check all of the gaskets. And there are a lot of them on the 1308 with the double layered glass on each door. Check the screws that hold the glas in place. They can sometimes loosen.


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## defiant3 (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann,  the thing is that on your Intrepid, the "flapper" is supposed to be as you described it when the stove is COLD.  So as it heats up, the thermostat coil should expand allowing the flapper to FULLY close.  Why'd they do it that way?  No clue, probably overpaid engineers.  The point is though, that either the thermostat is wonky, or more likely it's a gasketing issue.  Around the glass is always a good place to start.  If you tap with your finger on the glass panes(cold stove of course) ya' oughta get a dull "thud".  If ya' get a "rattle", then it's gasket time.  Somewhere it's leakin' air!


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## Ductape (Jan 28, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> Ann from KY said:
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I agree. If your stove is running away from you, good chance you have an air leak or three. An air leak at the ashpan door would be especially bad.


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## tcassavaugh (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the Intrepid model but on my old VC/Dutchwest Large convection with CAT, a "griddle" area was on top and in the middle of the stove. This was above the area where the CAT was located and had its own recessed thermometer for CAT burn activity scaled from 0-1800 degrees i believe. If you put the magnetic thermometer on the griddle and its over the cat (if it is) wouldn't the temps be higher,  influenced by the "CAT" combustion rather than the burning of the stove? Just wondering.

cass


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

Ductape said:
			
		

> BrowningBAR said:
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No gaskets for the ashpan. The ashpan is actually inside the two main doors.


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## jetmech (Jan 28, 2011)

One of the best ashpan designs ever.... Ann you might have air leaks. look carefully at seams of stove and around where primary air enters stove lower rh side looking throught the door... ive had to reseal mine twice since ive owned it... best way is to shine a strong flashlight around seams and primary air inlet while looking inside firebox.  my intrepid is a 1303 model but pretty sure its close to same. My stove has seen 750 couple of times but usually runs around 600... for what its worth


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

jetmech said:
			
		

> *One of the best ashpan designs ever.... *Ann you might have air leaks. look carefully at seams of stove and around where primary air enters stove lower rh side looking throught the door... ive had to reseal mine twice since ive owned it... best way is to shine a strong flashlight around seams and primary air inlet while looking inside firebox.  my intrepid is a 1303 model but pretty sure its close to same. My stove has seen 750 couple of times but usually runs around 600... for what its worth




I hate it. I'd prefer them to do away with the ashpan and give it a larger fire box.


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## jetmech (Jan 28, 2011)

Yea well it is what it is... im just sayin its designed so as to not cause air leaks


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## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

OK.  I adjusted the chain on the back that controls the damper.  Fixed it so it closes almost tight.  In looking at it, it didn't close all the way.  I found a manual online that says it should close all the way except for 1/8 inch.  When I shinned a flashlight inside towards the out near the top of the doors, you could see a little bit of light at the top of the door.  The guy I got the stove from had put new gaskets on it.

We are going to make another fire to test to see if the adjustment to the damper control helped out.  What is a good goat to run the stove at for extended times? 600 degrees?

I called Vermont Castings at 800-867-0454 and talked to tech support.  Not overly helpful but he did email me a copy of the manual for the 1308.  There were a few differences from the new manual I found online vs. the one he emailed me. 

I really appreciate everyone's help!!   This stove is really important to providing heat for me, hubby and remaining 4 children at home.  Budget can't handle turning the propane on.  The basement wood furnace is too much heat most of the time. We are homeschoolers, and home all day so this is the heat!  The children are getting a real education with all of this.  They have been taught the scientific principles about the draft of the stove, combustion, moisture in wood, etc.  The two boys (ages 15 and 13) are really the ones who helped me (mostly they did) with the installation of the chimney liner.  At least when they are grown they should know all about heating with wood!


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## VCBurner (Jan 28, 2011)

tcassavaugh said:
			
		

> I'm not familiar with the Intrepid model but on my old VC/Dutchwest Large convection with CAT, a "griddle" area was on top and in the middle of the stove. This was above the area where the CAT was located and had its own recessed thermometer for CAT burn activity scaled from 0-1800 degrees i believe. If you put the magnetic thermometer on the griddle and its over the cat (if it is) wouldn't the temps be higher,  influenced by the "CAT" combustion rather than the burning of the stove? Just wondering.
> 
> cass


The Intrepid's cat in not on the top like the CDW's it's in the back of the stove.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> tcassavaugh said:
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Correct.


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## Clarks ACE Hardware (Jan 28, 2011)

Are you getting an even burn of fuel from left to right?  (in other words are you left with more unburnt fuel on one side of the firebox than the other?)


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## bmwbj (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> Here is the history:  Vermont Castings Intrepid model 1308 with a cat.  6 inch rear exit flue hooked into a new stainless flex liner all the way to the top with the cap, etc. on it.  No insulation on pipe, and I have a block off plate.  I keep a wood stove thermometer on the griddle on the top.  This stove is a front or top load. It does have a small firebox, so I try to keep a small fire in it but it really wants to get too hot too easily.  I feel like I have to babysit the stove.  the manual I downloaded off line said to not let the stove get over 750 degrees, and to flip it to "CAT" when the temp got to 450 Degrees.  It seems to go up to 750 degrees without a lot of fire.  We do have good seasoned wood.  It's like I have a hot stove with 2 or 3 little sticks!  The family has been calling it the kindling burner as it is efficient with making heat with a little wood.  I just feel like I am always fooling with it.  Adjusting damper, checking temps.  When the temp gets to 750 degrees, I have been setting a box fan on low 3 feet from it to cool it down so it does not get damaged. What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Also, chimney is not that high, it was 13 feet from top to floor of old fireplace.
> 
> I am also used to my big monster Crosswinds wood furnace in the basement, that just eats wood. It is old school I know, but we just load it and go to bed.  I have to really watch the intrepid, and have stayed up with it when I wasn't comfortable with the temps on top.




     Ann, I too have a VC Intrepid II, and have had the same issues you speak of since I bought the stove brand new 6 years ago.I have never been able to fully "Stuff" the stove for a long burn, it always over heats.  I now only burn
about 2 to 3 3" splits at a time, and nurse the stove only when I'm home...I have had numerous people look at the stove
and was told by all that this is normal.   I have had all my gaskets checked and the stove is very air tight, but it will still overheat with too much wood inside.  
     The primary air flap that you spoke of is supposed to be open when the stove is cold...this is a factory preset measurement and need not be adjusted unless the thermostatic spring is defective.


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## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

I am sitting here watching it.  It had the damper set about in the middle, with 3 small pieces in there.  tree branches.  Cat is on, stove is at 750 degrees so I have the box fan on it.   Damper is now all the way shut. 
Right now, as I look at the fire the left side of the stove/fire seems to have more flame than the right AS you are looking at the stove.  That is the picture I attached.  F


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## afptl (Jan 28, 2011)

We raised the lid to look in at the fire. (can load from the top)

Then it went even hotter, pushing closer to 800.  the damper is all the way shut.  keeps burning away.  cat is on.  I'm getting so frustrated with this stove, and it was such a HUGE deal to get it.    Put box fan on high to try to move the heat.  Can the wood be kicking the heat up this high?  Fire NOW seems to be more evenly distributed as you look through the glass in.


Picture is when fire is coming down from 800 to about 750 degrees.

Ran box fan on high to blow heat off the stove, damper is all the way 100% shut.  Stove is really frustrating me as it is so important to the family to keep us warm.  I bought a Vermont Castings to stay away from the china junk that seems to be everywhere in our price range.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 28, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> We raised the lid to look in at the fire. (can load from the top)
> 
> Then it went even hotter, pushing closer to 800.  the damper is all the way shut.  keeps burning away.  cat is on.  I'm getting so frustrated with this stove, and it was such a HUGE deal to get it.    Put box fan on high to try to move the heat.  Can the wood be kicking the heat up this high?  Fire NOW seems to be more evenly distributed as you look through the glass in.
> 
> ...




At what temperature are you engaging the cat?


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## afptl (Jan 29, 2011)

We engage the CAT at 450 to 500 degrees with the thermometer on top of the griddle.


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## afptl (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks bmwbj for writing in.  I kinda thought about just using the little stuff, but it's hard to cut just the little stuff.  I am afraid to "load the stove" and go to bed or leave the house.   I feel like I am running it with the damper closed or almost closed all the time, and it worries me I am just making creosote in the chimney flue.  I expect to have a learning curve with a new stove, but we have been burning a wood furnace in the basement for years.  we're not new to wood burning. 

bmwbj, do you only have the Vermont Castings Intrepid or do you  have another stove?


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## Kamiobi (Jan 29, 2011)

You should also check the primary air on the bottom in the center at the back. That one is also theromastically controlled and it can get stuck open. There is also a pin attached to it that goes in under the CAT that may be burned off or damaged. It would also be a good idea to take out the ash pan and check the seams there. In my Intrepid II I had several small places where the stove cement had fallen out. After fixing them I got a better preforming stove.


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## jetmech (Jan 29, 2011)

Ann, if you are that hot with cat engaged and primary air off you are drawing air from another source... I would let the stove completly cool and clean out all the ash and inspect all seams and gaskets... as i said mt 1303 had cement cracked out at rear seams and i could light coming through with a flashlight while looking inside the stove. Elmoleaf had some great posts about where to check for leaks that helped me when i first got my stove. i resealed my areas with rutland cement and let it sit for a day to cure... so far so good,, you should be able to load that stove and control the heat as designed.. hope this helps


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## Woody Stover (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree with several other posters who think you may have one or more air leaks.
That door gasket set-up looks strange, but since no one has mentioned it, I'll assume that's the way it's supposed to be...
To check for air leaks--In a darkened room, shine a bright flashlight around the inside of the stove toward the seams. Have another person look at the seams from outside the stove as you shine the light on them. If light gets through to the outside, air can get in at that point. You can also use an incense stick to move around the seams/gaskets on the outside of the stove while it's burning. If the smoke gets sucked in, you've located a leak.

Don't get too discouraged yet. Hang in there, you'll figure it out. These are some of the things that make running a stove interesting.


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## elmoleaf (Jan 29, 2011)

As jetmech said, get down and get your eyeballs looking up into the primary air opening at the back while shining a light inside the firebox towards that corner. On the 1303, a vertical tie rod runs near that area. Often the cement will drop out in this corner, which allows air straight into the firebox, without passing around the ashpan to the glass up front. Not sure if they redesigned that intersection on the 1308.

Also, make sure the secondary air inlet and temp probe is working correctly and intact.

However, I suspect you're getting a seam leak somewhere else. Remember there are more seams than just the gasketed ones at the front doors, griddle, and damper. I had a leak on my stove along the vertical seam between the front casting and side casting at the front left corner of my firebox. It took awhile to figure that one out...didn't show up by shining lights or anything. Only figured it out by when I realized that side of the hearth was always much hotter than the right side. 

I'd try the incense stick trick with the stove running to look for leaks. If your stove was ever moved by lifting from the top or side castings or tilted in a similar manner (versus only supporting/lifting from bottom casting), that will typically break the cement bond between the cast iron plates and allow air leaks.

Also, remember performance is never constant. Exceptionally dry wood and days with strong draft (versus warmer outside temps, damp days) all tend to create a rip roaring firebox.


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## afptl (Jan 29, 2011)

OK.  I laid on the floor and found the "secondary air spot".  I think.  It was in the center back of the stove.  It looks like it has a thermostat thing attached to a metal plate. The metal plate looks like it will go up and down.  Right now the stove is cold and so it was all the way open.  I guess I will have to make a fire to see if it closes up or not.
that's the picture I attached.


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## afptl (Jan 30, 2011)

Alright, I think I found something!!  I turned out all the lights and shined a flashlight around the seams.  When I got around the top, near the + and -- skinny damper control, light was shinning in the firebox   This is when the CAT is off.   there has to be a leak there!

So I am thinking, get some furnace cement and seal up that leaky place!  Will try to get some after church tomorrow.  Any special tips for doing it? 


Does anyone know how I could test the center back underneath damper thing without building a fire in it?  If I used a taper lighter like you light a gas grill with would I damage the thermostat? 


REALLY appreciate all the help!!   I guess I am really going to know a lot about this stove before it is all said and done!


Also, I think the air control damper in the 1308 works like the 1303.


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## afptl (Jan 30, 2011)

Hubby brought home tube of Rutland furnace cement.  I put it anywhere I thought might need sealing and checked with a light again.  Now I do not see any light.  Letting it cure overnight and will try a fire tomorrow afternoon. I'll keep you posted.  If I don't get it too hot, I'm going to slide the mirror under it and see if that air control in the center back makes any changes. I can't figure out how to test it without making a fire. Hope that works, getting tired of playing Nancy Drew detective!


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 30, 2011)

Ann from KY said:
			
		

> Hubby brought home tube of Rutland furnace cement.  I put it anywhere I thought might need sealing and checked with a light again.  Now I do not see any light.  Letting it cure overnight and will try a fire tomorrow afternoon. I'll keep you posted.  If I don't get it too hot, I'm going to slide the mirror under it and see if that air control in the center back makes any changes. I can't figure out how to test it without making a fire. Hope that works, getting tired of playing Nancy Drew detective!




Be sure to do a few small fires to cure the cement properly. Otherwise the cement will crack, crumble, and break away within a few weeks.


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## afptl (Jan 31, 2011)

OK.  On my second small fire to break in the cement.  I'll keep everyone posted as to how things go.  I noticed when I was crawling around on the floor that the gaskets around the glass looks rough.  Will call tomorrow to see about replacement parts.


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## afptl (Feb 1, 2011)

I think we found the problem!!  Had 2 fires in the stove yesterday, and the one last night the stove worked pretty good. Had it putter along last evening, then it worked up to 650 degrees.  I cut the draft/air flow switch and it worked!!  The temp dropped and fire responded to lack of air.

I feel pretty comfortable saying it was the place near the thermostat where the caulking stuff came out.  Probably because we have a long driveway that is gravel.  Maybe the ride home was a little rough??  

I tried to show some pics where I repaired it with furnace cement.  It was a little tricky because I did not want to disconnect or move the stove.  Used a mirror, a Popsicle stick and my hand to put it where it needed to be.  Not the neatest job, but I was trying to fix not look pretty!  

I feel 100% better about the whole stove thing!  I just want to thank everyone who took the time to post and offer suggestions.  

I looked last night up under the stove with a light and mirror when it was about 550 degrees at the center back air intake.  Didn't seem to be moving any.  Does anyone know what temp that thing is supposed to shut down on?  

I am probably going to check out the cat too,  just to see the condition of it. 

Good thing we have her going good now, they are calling for an ice storm here.  Just in case the power goes, at least we can get some heat and cook on top. 

What is the ideal temperature to be running this stove at now that it's back in business??  I know to flip it to CAT at about 450-500 degrees.  Where do you run your thermostat damper part?  (skinny silver part/handle on top)


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## elmoleaf (Feb 1, 2011)

The gap you sealed shouldn't make any difference. That gap doesn't let any air into the firebox....that point would simply let air into the reversable flue collar area, which is outside both the firebox and the refractory chamber area. In any event, the rod from the damper handle passes through underneath where you sealed and is going to let some amount of air into the exhaust stream anyway.

The secondary air flapper you photographed should be open when the stove is cold, and closes down as the stove heats up. It is connected to a bimetallic thermostat and metal probe that sticks into the refractory chamber/exhaust stream immediately after the catalyst. As long as the flapper is still hanging by the metal rod from the bimetallic coil (and assuming the probe hasn't eroded away over the years) you should be OK with that aspect of the stove.

If you still have temp issues, make sure the damper gasket is intact and that the damper door seals securely when you turn the handle up.
Double check your glass gaskets, door and griddle gaskets.
From the outside of the stove, shine a bright light along the vertical seams where the front & back castings meet the side castings. You shouldn't see cement oozing from these or anything. You also shouldn't see an uneven reveal line at the joint indicating a warped casting or anything else that doesn't look normal.

It's possible everything may look normal, but the cemented seams between castings cracked open if the stove was lifted or tilted by lifting at the door/griddle openings, instead of from the bottom. I bought my stove used and that is exactly what I discovered. I had the stove outside and was washing it out (to check for cracked castings etc) with a low pressure garden hose. To my surprise, I saw water squirting out in numerous places, especially around the top casting. I ending up tearing the stove down and completely rebuilding it.

Normal operation with the cat engaged on my 1303 is anywhere from 500-650 F (accurate thermometer in griddle center), depending on the wood. Lots of small stuff makes the temp hard to regulate. I try to stick to 2-3 big splits if possible after a good fire is established (in other words, plenty of coals, firebox temp above 450f).


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## afptl (Feb 1, 2011)

I also put some furnace cement along the edge where the reversible flue collar was on 3 sides.  Not very heavy.  We did flip the flue collar, but the gasket seemed fine.  Just standing there with the furnace cement and just kept going with it. 

When I looked inside the stove, I could see light on the top back of it. that's why I put the furnace cement there. After we put the furnace cement there, no light leaks.  I still want to get some of the incense sticks to try to go around it more and look for leaks.  Just haven't been to town yet to go to the store. It's about 15 miles to a big enough store to get them.  with the price of gas, no frivolous trips.  Has to be a combined effort.


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