# Two weeks left :0 vigas or varmebaronen



## Splitmonster (Sep 29, 2013)

Ive been searching and reading and going crazy trying to make a decision on a new indoor gasser. Im very happy with the simplicity of the vigas 40 but also like the design that varmebaronen makes. 

I currently have one 500 gallon propane tank in the basement ready to be hooked up for storage and am looking for a second. My house is about 3,200 sq feet with big open ceilings and  forced hot air. I currently have a budarus wood hog in my garage hooked to the furnace with a heat exchanger, and a second zone for the garage witch has a heater hanging from the ceiling.

Im down to the last minute and need to pull the trigger on a boiler. Please help


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## nrcrash (Sep 29, 2013)

Don't think u could go wrong with either unit....  That being said, I know u can't go wrong if u are getting ur Vigas from AHONA, especially if you are performing the install urself.  Class act over there.


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## ewdudley (Sep 29, 2013)

Both great boilers, both great dealers.  I've seen both but have run neither, but have to give an edge to the Vedolux design.  But be aware that by the book the Vedolux needs more expansion volume.  Relax, you can't go wrong.


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## Splitmonster (Sep 29, 2013)

I dont have time to visit my boiler more than twice a day. Do you think the 40 is up to the task with my setup?


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## Splitmonster (Sep 29, 2013)

The low pressure doesnt bother me. I will add plenty of explanation tanks. The only thing that i didnt like was the disclaimer about oak as thats all i have, or at least 90 %. Im sure that the vigas could be affected the same way but now its in my head. I like the simple cleaning of the varm, and the lack of wires, but also am drawn to the lambda controls of the vigas


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## Fred61 (Sep 29, 2013)

I have never operated either boiler but have looked extensively at the design of each one. I don't think you could go wrong with either one. I think that your requirement that you will only be able to visit the boiler twice a day a makes me want to recommend the varm only because I am assuming the burn would be less prone to bridging as opposed to a downdraft. This is all an assumption on my part!


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## maple1 (Sep 29, 2013)

How tall is your chimeny?


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 29, 2013)

Both great choices. I would be inclined to go with whichever dealer is closer. Varm is downdraft and i seldom get bridging unless i forcfully cram splits in which i do t do anymore. I do wish the firebox was a little bigger for my 1000 gallon storage.  Lambda gets you little bit more efficiency but complicates the controls of the boiler. More to go wrong and harder to diagnose and fix. I was told the disclaimer about oak is there because most people dont realize it takes longer to season than any other wood. My vedolux does not like wood above 25%. It will handle 20-25 but i feel that i have to feed it more to get the same charge into the tank as compared to wood <20%. This is similar with most if not all gassers.


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## nrcrash (Sep 29, 2013)

I visit my boiler twice a day in jan and have 3500 sqft of house but i do have 1000 gallons of storage.  Is ur wood dry?  That's the key that will set u free


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## Splitmonster (Sep 29, 2013)

Ive had the wood un split in 4foot  lengths for a year then i split it in april and put it in my wood shed. Plus ive split all the wood i need for next year already and covered it. In the spring i will move it to the wood shed to further dry. Im trying to get three years ahead but thats not an easy task when you need about ten cords per year.  My chimney is an 8" double wall ss about 22' tall plus the five feet of horizontal-ish pipe inside.


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## JP11 (Sep 29, 2013)

love my lambda boiler.  controls eek out the best from the wood without me tinkering.   Don't know the other guys.. but can't say enough good things about Mark at AHONA. You won't find anyone talking bad on here about him.  That should tell you a lot.

JP


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## maple1 (Sep 29, 2013)

Depending on the type of wood & how much air goes thru your wood shed, that wood might not be quite dry enough for this winter. But it might be OK too.

I asked about your chimney because if you had one tall enough, I would recommend considering a Varm natural draft unit. Being able to gassify nicely with no draft fans was a fair advantage to me - and it is a very understated feature.

But I don't think your 22' is quite tall enough. Mine is 30' of 7" and works well, I didn't bother sealing my flue pipe and maintain 0.1" of draft quite easily - they require 0.08". I have no experience with either a Varm fan model or a Vigas so can't really speak to one better than the other, the Vigas looks nice too - but Varms in general I think are the easiest to maintain/clean on the market.


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## henfruit (Sep 29, 2013)

Coal reaper if you have not run a Vigas how would you know it is harder to diagnose and fix? I visit mine twice a day in the dead of the winter. Bridging can happen with any boiler. The vigas is simple to clean remove back clean out plate, brush the tubes  and put back together ready to burn.


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 29, 2013)

henfruit said:


> Coal reaper if you have not run a Vigas how would you know it is harder to diagnose and fix? I visit mine twice a day in the dead of the winter. Bridging can happen with any boiler. The vigas is simple to clean remove back clean out plate, brush the tubes  and put back together ready to burn.


I meant electrically. The little computer, control board, display screen. These are on all the lambda boilers. The non-lambda varms are just a timer and flu temp switch for the fan and thermal overheat to turn fan off.


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## JP11 (Sep 29, 2013)

I'd gladly replace parts if I had to.  I've built PCs.. putting together a boiler board would be nothing.

But honestly... to be afraid of electronics, and to shun their advances is a bit behind the times IMHO.

I love my new kubota tractor.. a simple circuit board that controls the throttle is a great advancement for hydrostatic tractors.  There's tons of PC boards now in most every piece of equipment.  Love how the electronics have improved many simple devices.

JP


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## Splitmonster (Sep 29, 2013)

I agree that my wood may not be perfect this year but i dont have much choice. Thats why im trying to get a head with my splitting now. Next year should be better and the following even better.


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 29, 2013)

JP11 said:


> I'd gladly replace parts if I had to.  I've built PCs.. putting together a boiler board would be nothing.
> 
> But honestly... to be afraid of electronics, and to shun their advances is a bit behind the times IMHO.
> 
> ...


Im not saying that theres not a percentage of boiler operators that couldnt diagnose and replace or rebuild boards. Myself i used to build boards for commercial fire alarm and evacuation systems, up to 1005 components i will never forget.  But i know that i wouldnt want to be busy digging for parts to build or repair a board while my house is going cold when i could just replace or bypass some contacts temporarily.  Yes electronics certainly have their place and yes there are btter ways of doing things because of electronics. But we are talking about burning wood here. Fire has been around a lot longer than PCBs!  If you want that extra 3-5% or whatever if efficiency than go for it. Works out to be less than 1/4 cord difference for most homes.


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## JP11 (Sep 29, 2013)

To each their own.  I would wait a few days for parts.  At close to 10 cord a year.. I'll take that 5%.  You can't beat a system that's constantly monitoring and making small corrections.  Just like the autopilot at work.  It's damn good at the monotonous jobs.  It keeps making small changes to make sure that everything is running right.


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 30, 2013)

yeha man.  thats why one boiler doesnt dominate the whole market, different strokes for different folks.  to take it a step further, there are crazy cats like maple who dont even want a fan on thier boiler!
working out some numbers lets put a dollar ammount to your cord of wood, say $300.  and lets assume that the price difference between lamba and non is $3k for the sake of numbers.  it would take 20 years to make up even a 5% difference at 10 cords per year.  that might be worth it but still your results may vary depending on what your wood is worth and actualy price difference.  for my area the numbers are $200 if i bought, $4k difference for varms i was looking at, and 5-6cord/year.  ill split a few extra rounds...


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## JP11 (Sep 30, 2013)

For me it's more about the ease of use.  I can tell my wife to push button, load, push button.  Getting her to "adjust" anything wasn't going to happen.  I do sometimes run softwood.  For me it was more about ease of use, and knowing it will kill itself if too hot, or too cold, and monitor it all in between.

JP


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## Clarkbug (Oct 1, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> The low pressure doesnt bother me. I will add plenty of explanation tanks. The only thing that i didnt like was the disclaimer about oak as thats all i have, or at least 90 %. Im sure that the vigas could be affected the same way but now its in my head. I like the simple cleaning of the varm, and the lack of wires, but also am drawn to the lambda controls of the vigas



Where are you located?  Getting a chance to meet a dealer/see a unit in person might help you make up your mind one way or another.  

Varm makes a lambda model as well, so you can go that route if you want to keep their design as well as advanced controls.

As was already said here, you really cant go wrong with either unit.


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## maple1 (Oct 1, 2013)

JP11 said:


> For me it's more about the ease of use.  I can tell my wife to push button, load, push button.  Getting her to "adjust" anything wasn't going to happen.  I do sometimes run softwood.  For me it was more about ease of use, and knowing it will kill itself if too hot, or too cold, and monitor it all in between.
> 
> JP


 
My boiler doesn't even have buttons to push.

She finds enough buttons to push elsewhere anyway.

Ooopsie...


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## charly (Oct 1, 2013)

I will add that having dealt with Mark from AHONA in the past was a pleasure!  Marks a guy who thinks outside the book.. He even designed his own boiler controller to let one go outside the limited boiler settings on some stock control boards.. So I would feel very comfortable with Mark.. He will never leave you stuck with any issues... Mark has even traveled hours to help customers who needed his help..  Just my 2 cents about Mark.. Great guy!


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## charly (Oct 1, 2013)

Boiler set up I bought from Mark  from AHONA which went with my other house that we sold to buy our farm.. Again Mark was 100% to deal with.. He's there big time AFTER the sale...


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## Splitmonster (Oct 1, 2013)

Im in tolland ct. I think im leaning towards the vigas. I feel that a draft fan could only help if the wood is slightly above ideal MC.


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## ewdudley (Oct 1, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> I feel that a draft fan could only help if the wood is slightly above ideal MC.


Vedolux has models with conventional draft fan and other models with natural draft.


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## Brialin (Oct 4, 2013)

I bought a Vigas 40 from Patrick Marks in NH.  It is a great boiler and his expertise is greatly appreciated. I replaced a 17 year old Tarm gassifier.  I wasn't sure about the computer controls but actually think they are the best thing going.  I appear to use about 20 percent less wood than the Tarm. You will not be at all disappointed if you but one.  I live in North Cental Mass. if fyou would like to see one in operation.

Brian


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## Splitmonster (Oct 5, 2013)

Thank you all for your input. I think i have setteld on the vigas40. I agree with your coments about Mark. I. Spoke with him last year when i started my research and he was more than willing to tell me everything he knew about boilers. Im looking forward to meating him and giveing him my buisness.


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## charly (Oct 5, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> Thank you all for your input. I think i have setteld on the vigas40. I agree with your coments about Mark. I. Spoke with him last year when i started my research and he was more than willing to tell me everything he knew about boilers. Im looking forward to meating him and giveing him my buisness.


He's a really fun guy to be around...He makes it a point to make sure you understand anything he's talking about,, he wants you right on board with his thinking!


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## flyingcow (Oct 5, 2013)

maple1 said:


> How tall is your chimeny?




Damn personal question young fella'...........Damn Canadians are a bit forward.


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## arngnick (Oct 5, 2013)

I will add that I am very satisfied with my Varm 50 which is also natural draft like Maple1. It is pretty much self-regulating since the draft builds as the fire matures and decreases as it goes out. I will say I am guilty of burning less than ideal wood without much issue but am much better prepared this year. My wife operates the boiler with ease and only takes 5-10 mins to light load, and walk away. The fact that ALL the cleaning can be done from the front is very convenient and quick. I will also warn you if you decide to go with a Varm you will not be able to get away from the viewing glass...it’s fun to watch.


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## Coal Reaper (Oct 6, 2013)

arngnick said:


> I will add that I am very satisfied with my Varm 50 which is also natural draft like Maple1. It is pretty much self-regulating since the draft builds as the fire matures and decreases as it goes out. I will say I am guilty of burning less than ideal wood without much issue but am much better prepared this year. My wife operates the boiler with ease and only takes 5-10 mins to light load, and walk away. The fact that ALL the cleaning can be done from the front is very convenient and quick. I will also warn you if you decide to go with a Varm you will not be able to get away from the viewing glass...it’s fun to watch.


Idk what i would do if if i couldnt see that waterfall of flames cascading through the nozzle and wrapping around the trough. Almost mesmerizing to sit in front of with a beer.  Iwill be putting a couch in front of my boiler once i get that room finished.


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## JTWALL (Oct 6, 2013)

nrcrash said:


> Don't think u could go wrong with either unit....  That being said, I know u can't go wrong if u are getting ur Vigas from AHONA, especially if you are performing the install urself.  Class act over there.


 I beg to differ on your opinion of AHONA.  I purchased a Eko Model 25 back in 2008 from them.  I have tried unsuccessfully to get replacement parts for my unit for over 6 months.  They never return e-mails, when I did reach them on the phone, Mark repeatedly promised me confirmed delivery and NEVER came through.  He always had an excuse: "well, I am at a show in Ohio...call me this weekend." They spend more time out-of-town at trade shows than taking care of business at home. Please, don't believe me...go to their website and leave an e-mail message...they will never get back to you.  I know it is a waste of time, but I filed a complaint with the BBB.  They use to be very responsive, no more.  Shop elsewhere if you can.
PS: I ordered the parts I needed from New Horizon; received them in 3 days.


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## nrcrash (Oct 6, 2013)

JTWALL said:


> I beg to differ on your opinion of AHONA.  I purchased a Eko Model 25 back in 2008 from them.  I have tried unsuccessfully to get replacement parts for my unit for over 6 months.  They never return e-mails, when I did reach them on the phone, Mark repeatedly promised me confirmed delivery and NEVER came through.  He always had an excuse: "well, I am at a show in Ohio...call me this weekend." They spend more time out-of-town at trade shows than taking care of business at home. Please, don't believe me...go to their website and leave an e-mail message...they will never get back to you.  I know it is a waste of time, but I filed a complaint with the BBB.  They use to be very responsive, no more.  Shop elsewhere if you can.
> PS: I ordered the parts I needed from New Horizon; received them in 3 days.




What went on ur eko?  Was it covered under warranty?


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## Splitmonster (Oct 6, 2013)

No one is perfect


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## arngnick (Oct 7, 2013)

I would like to add that the customer service from Smokelessheat.com is second to none! Dean made special appointments to meet me after hours and on weekends. I bought my first gasifier from him and I struggled with it for 2 years (not a Varm he does not sell this brand anymore). He was very responsive for the entire two years to offer solutions and suggestions for the issues that I experienced. About half way through my wife and I were fed up and decided we needed to do something else before we burnt our house down or got hurt with the unit. I called Dean and explained my situation and much to my surprise he offered to buy back the boiler regardless if I bought anything else from him (of course the buyback price was slightly less if I decided to buy elsewhere). I was blown away at such a generous offer! I did extensive research and once I was sold on the idea of storage and batch burning. I decided to take a look at the Varm. I was very impressed. I looked at a lot of boilers, options and designs and I was sold on the Varm. I think there are many good options out there but I do not regret buying the Varm or dealing with smokelessheat.com.
Most recently I had an 80 gallon expansion tank that I purchased from smokelessheat.com go bad and once I contacted Dean he processed the paperwork and had a new one on the way from the manufacture right away. Even offered a loaner if I wanted to pick it up.
Highly recommend smokelessheat.com


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

So, the two weeks have come and gone i bought a vigas 40 from Patrick Marks up in NH at Alternative Heating of Mount Washington Vally. First off a supper nice guy and a pleasure to do business with.  Any way i got it all plumbed up and had my first fire last night. The controller is a little intimidating at first but once you use it for more than two minuets its really easy. I loaded it with an arms full of wood and a couple pieces of kindling on the bottom, blasted it with my plumbers torch shut the door and hit the button!! The water temp went up about as fast as the smile on my face


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

Congrats!

I love that "towel dryer" in front of the gasifier


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## Coal Reaper (Nov 24, 2013)

Good on yah!


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

And, ..... that safety valve should be plumbed in a safe way towards the floor.
If somebody peeks trough the window when it goes off, he/she might loose an eye


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

PassionForFire&Water said:


> And, ..... that safety valve should be plumbed in a safe way towards the floor.
> If somebody peeks trough the window when it goes off, he/she might loose an eye




That should keep them out.


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

Haha i have the parts to plumb it down, but my excitement of running the boiler got in the way. Still plenty of finishing touches to do


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

I cant wait until the storage come up to temp so i can turn on some zone pumps


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## Clarkbug (Nov 24, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> I cant wait until the storage come up to temp so i can turn on some zone pumps



You are gonna wanna get some insulation on that storage tank, or you wont ever get it up there!  I ran my system for a few weeks without it to check for leaks, and it definitely heated my basement.  Its a giant radiator at this point 

But nice job getting it in and installed!


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

How do i get it up to temp when this damn protection valve wont let it circulate. The boiler is up to temp and idling.


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

is the LK820 in the right orientation?
what temp setting is the LK820?
is the pump running?
pump GPM?


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

No LK820 here. Just a 140 danfoss valve and a 3 speed circulator pump


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

is the pump running?
How do you control this?


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## Clarkbug (Nov 24, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> Just a 140 danfoss valve and a 3 speed circulator pump



Do you have a ball valve in your bypass line?


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

The pump runs as long as the exhaust temp is up, so as long as i reset it every now and then the pump stays on.


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

Clarkbug said:


> Do you have a ball valve in your bypass line?


Looks like it is almost closed (on picture)
Maybe open that valve a little bit more.


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes ball valve. I have been messing with that trying to find the sweet spot. I can get the top of the tank up to 138 or so but thats about it so far. When i turn on a zone to stir the tank it drops right out


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## PassionForFire&Water (Nov 24, 2013)

I think you should set up your controls that the zones can not extract heat from the tank before the tank is charged to a certain degree.


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

They are but I stepped over it to shack things up


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## Clarkbug (Nov 24, 2013)

I *think* you have to open that valve up more when you are first heating your storage.  Most of the water will bypass the first time you bring your storage up to temp for the season.  Once storage is heated, you close that valve down more.  It takes a while to get up to temp, especially if you just started the boiler a few hours ago.

(I have a loading valve, so I may be completely wrong)


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## Splitmonster (Nov 24, 2013)

I figured it out Yippppeeee!  She was air bound. Pumping away now


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## Clarkbug (Nov 24, 2013)

Splitmonster said:


> I figured it out Yippppeeee!  She was air bound. Pumping away now



Glad you got it figured out!  Its a good day to have wood heat!


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## JP11 (Nov 24, 2013)

Just so you know.. Pump does NOT launch off flue temp.

I believe it's at 104 degrees water on BOILER temp.

Just an FYI

You can watch it come to temp and start the pump.

JP


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## henfruit (Nov 24, 2013)

Mike, Glad to hear that you got all the air out. AS JP noted the pump starts on water temp.


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