# Wanna help me choose a soapstone or cast iron stove?



## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I'm a brand-spankin'-newbie here, and can't tell you how glad I am to have found Hearth.com.  We're finishing our place on a tight schedule (owner of the rental is selling, and we don't want/can't afford to move twice, especially when we're so close!), and I really need to get the stove figured out.

Details:

Smallish space (700-ish sq ft).  Building is 24x36, but due to attic trusses, the floor space inside is smaller than the 836 of the footprint.  Ceiling is close enough to usual to not be a factor.  (Higher in the middle, at 11', but only 7.5' in the living room & bedroom, due to attic trusses.)

We've got a corner to put the stove in, in the kitchen area, that's 32" deep x 50" wide (or within a few inches).  I'm fine with having the tile come out into the walkway, as it'll be the same height as the hardwood.  I just don't want the stove to reach out into the traffic pattern.  I'd love a side-loading stove for this very reason; but it's got to load from the left.  (Fwiw, I'm planning on ceramic tile on the walls (basic subway in white) and some kind of stone tile on the floor--just have to find something that'll match the height of the hickory wood flooring.)

There are a lot of us (eight in the family--I know, we're crazy, but just trust me that minimalist living for a few years is a really good thing for us), so I'm thinking that a stove a little bigger than one would think would be a good thing, as we'll have a lot of airflow in the place just so we all don't asphyxiate in winter, (we'll spend most good weather days outside in the garden, woods, etc.).  I also want something that will still have a good bed of coals after eight or so hours so we won't wake up to a frigid house.

Lest you think we're certifiable, this is on 12 acres, with woods and pasture, and we'll be building an ICF home in a couple years (gotta save for that while we have such a low mortgage).  So, plenty of room for the kids (heck, all of us) to have some space and freedom outside of the little box that will keep us from freezing in the winter.

I've got my eye on Hearthstone stoves . . . I really don't want a catalytic converter because I'm worried about it failing or needing to be rebuilt.  We need a stove that's going to be something we can maintain ourselves as much as possible.  (If such a thing still exists . . . ;o)  I love the soapstone, and the more gentle heat and less blistering surfaces . . . growing up with wood heat, I think it would be much better for a small space than a steel stove.  (Or maybe cast iron would work, too?  I love the look of them, but don't know much else.)  My brothers and I lived in fear of the black steel stove we had. lol  I do want something I could use to cook on if the electricity went out, or we went off-grid.  (Both very real possibilities.)  I'm thinking the Tribute is a little too small; the Homestead looks about right, but there's no side door, and I worry about how shallow the box is for loading & spillage; and the Heritage looks nearly perfect, (maybe a little big?) . . . but I've been around various blocks enough times to worry that there's really no perfect solution. (Which I'm okay with. )

I've been encouraged by the friendly and chatty feel of all of the threads I've read, (trying to figure out if I needed to post this question, or if it had already been answered), and I look forward to hearing what y'all have to say, both expected and unexpected.  I really do love the Hearthstone stoves, but I'm open to discussing other options.  (And my DH would love to hear about other, less expensive options. lol)  I've done what research I can, but with packing and everyone sick this week (don't ask--it's not good timing! lol), I'm a little strapped for spare minutes in which to google something that I know so little about.

Sooooo . . . enlighten me, please!


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## BrowningBAR (May 2, 2012)

Where are you located? How cold is your winter?


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## tfdchief (May 2, 2012)

I have the Hampton H200 in my kitchen, which is about the same size as Tribute. Check my signature for a review. Just an option.  Welcome to the forum.  If you want, members can be very helpful.  Just keep posting.


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Where are you located? How cold is your winter?



Lol. Oops. Northern Idaho/Inland NW.  USDA zone 5/6. We get a couple weeks of sub-zero temps each winter (ranging from a few degrees to -30, depending on the year), and usually need heat about seven or eight months out of the year.  It stays pretty cloudy most of the Fall, Winter & Spring.

Thanks so much, BrowningBAR and Steve!  Off to look at that review now....


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## Punky (May 2, 2012)

Annalea: 

Welcome to the Hearth site, lots of great stuff here.

I understand what you are saying about not wanting to deal with the calalytic converter, but you are eliminating some fine stoves from Woodstock Soapstone Company. Their Firevew and Keystone wood stoves have a long, proven track record of performance and will heat your smallish house nicely. I know there are other members  (such as Dennis aka Backwoods Savage) who were unsure about the catalytic converter, but now are now very pleased with their stove. Many owners of Hearthstones are very happy, but if you want Soapstone there is not alot of choice out there, so I suggest you research Woodstock.

Advantages of Soapstone (in my opinion) are that it is a more "comfortable" heat than emitted from a similar sized steel or cast iron stove. The peaks and valleys of temperature extremes are moderated by the high thermal mass of the soapstone, so the room temps stay more even. I also like the looks. I never cooked on my Fireview, but I know some people have. Woodstock has been installing a cooktop on their big Progress stove, I wonder if they might consider making one for their other stoves?  Good luck and keep asking lots of questions.


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Thanks, Punky.  My main concern with catalytic converter stoves is that if it were to need maintenance in the dead of winter, when the power is out and we're snowed in, that it could be bad news for our safety.  What's the story on cats?  On the life of the converter? How well would the stove work without one (either a non-functioning one still in the stove, one with it removed), and what does it take to rebuild one?  We don't live quite at the end of nowhere, but with small children and severe winters, I need to have something that wouldn't have the ability to turn traitor.  Is there cause for concern in this kind of scenario?


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## BrowningBAR (May 2, 2012)

As a Hearthstone owner, I would purchase a new Woodstock over a new Hearthstone. They are less expensive, more efficient, offer longer burns, and have better customer support.

That isn't to say the Hearthstone line is bad. But, if I were buying a new soapstone stove, the cost, burn times, and efficiency of the Woodstock stoves would beat out the Hearthstone stoves easily.

In regards to the Soapstone vs. Cast iron, I do not notice much of a difference between the heat of a soapstone versus a cast iron stove. For the most part it is personal preference between the two materials.


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## BrowningBAR (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Thanks, Punky. * My main concern with catalytic converter stoves is that if it were to need maintenance in the dead of winter, when the power is out and we're snowed in, that it could be bad news for our safety. * What's the story on cats? On the life of the converter? How well would the stove work without one (either a non-functioning one still in the stove, one with it removed), and what does it take to rebuild one? We don't live quite at the end of nowhere, but with small children and severe winters, I need to have something that wouldn't have the ability to turn traitor. Is there cause for concern in this kind of scenario?


 
That's a pretty extreme scenario. I use both, non-cat and cat stoves. The only maintenance you will need to do, for the most part, on a Woodstock cat stove would be to swap out the old cat for the new cat. Not a big deal. A cat will last 3-5 years for the most part. Proper inspection before the burning season begins should eliminate the possibility of the catalytic combustor failing mid-season.

That doesn't mean I am suggesting you go with a cat stove. Some people just do not like cat stoves. But, if you are going with a soapstone stove, Woodstock is the way to go. They just happen to be cat stoves.


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## begreen (May 2, 2012)

In soapstone a Woodstock Keystone or Palladian would be my first choice for this setup. In non-cat, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. The T5 might be a better choice if there is a desire to use the stove for cooking too.


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## BrowningBAR (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> How well would the stove work without one (either a non-functioning one still in the stove, one with it removed), and what does it take to rebuild one?


 
A cat stove without the cat would be incredibly inefficient to use and you would lose a ton of heat. The only cat stove that needs to be 'rebuilt' is VC cat stoves. Blaze King and Woodstock only require you to swap out the combustor with a new one. Not difficult at all.


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## firefighterjake (May 2, 2012)

Random thoughts . . .

Welcome to the forum.

Soapstone vs. cast iron vs. steel . . . all have pros- and cons- . . . but the truth is, all get plenty hot to heat up a place and all can burn down a place or burn you if you are not careful.

Speaking of burning down a place . . . be aware that some stoves require specific insulation (R) value. Just putting down a non-combustible hearth of ceramic tile may not be enough for some stoves and their hearth requirements . . . something to think about. Two things you don't want to do when it comes to woodstove installation . . . cheat on the hearth insulation requirements and cheat on the distance to combustibles.

I like your thinking . . . while bigger is not always better . . . and you can go too big. In general, more folks here seem to buy stoves that are too small rather than too large for their needs. The advice I followed that worked out well for me was to figure out my spacing needs . . . and then pick the stove rated for the next size up.

Getting an 8 hour burn usually means a bigger stove or catalytic combustor . . .

Don't fear the cat . . . I am sure Backwoods Savage will be along shortly to tell you about his experience, but from what I've read (secondary burner myself) cat maintenance is very easy -- typically just pulling the cat and brushing the fly ash from it with a paint brush. The cats themselves seem to go for several years . . . they are not something that just breaks one winter in middle of a burn and you suddenly cannot burn any more. While it is possible to burn without a cat by bypassing it, you are missing out on the one-two benefits of burning cleanly and burning more efficiently.

Cooking can be done on pretty much any stove if you are looking to simmer a stew or soup . . . or even fry up a steak on some hot coals. I cooked some great rib eyes in my cast iron stove this past winter in fact after seeing pics from another member.

If money is an issue, Englander is highly recommended here. It's a steel stove, but it has a very good reputation. If I was to buy a steel stove today, I would go with an Englander or Lopi. If I was to buy a soapstone stove, I would buy a Woodstock stove in a heart beat with no issues. That said, I have a cast iron Jotul and it has been near bullet-proof . . . and it's why I will stick with my beloved Jotul.


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Okay, this is FANTASTIC.  Tons of info, several new stoves to consider (all of which are available locally! Yes!), and well-written, informative posts.  I could kiss the lot of you. ;-)

Try as I might, I just can't like the Woodstock stoves.  Their looks just aren't working for me, but the biggie is that I can't get past the idea that it would be unusable after a fairly predictable lifespan if I couldn't get a replacement part.  I can stockpile gaskets, and even door glass, but those aren't expected to fail usually, are they?

So, that leaves me with the Hampton H200, the Alderlea T4/5, and a Jotul (can't remember which ones, but if I switch tabs on this iPad, I'll lose my post.).  If there's something less expensive than the Hearthstone that would really work well, then the Heritage, et al, are out of the running.  Now I need to look over the install requirements, and see what will work in our space, and go to the local place and see some of these for myself.

FYI:  If the hearth pad needs to extend into the walkway, I really need a stove that doesn't require a really thick base.  If I can get away with keeping it under 33", then thickness isn't an issue.  There's no way I'll skimp on the hearth....for the same reason I have trouble with a catalytic stove--to keep peace of mind.  

Keep the ideas, opinions, and all the rest of it, coming.  I'm so grateful to have found this forum.  I have a feeling I'll be posting here a lot more over the years, about all kinds of wood heating stuff.  THANKS!


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## begreen (May 2, 2012)

Regarding the hearth, be sure to check on the stove's requirements. It sounds like you want an ember barrier only hearth in order for it to be flush with the current floor. If this is essential, it will narrow down the stove options.


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## PapaDave (May 2, 2012)

Welcome to the Hearth, Annalea. Your climate sounds similar to ours here in northern Mi.
When I finally get around to getting my new stove (I have an older pre-epa plate steel), I'm starting to reconsider a soapstone cat.
Low, long, clean burns in the fall/spring, and more heat if/when needed in the dead of winter can't be beat.
From all I've read on here, cats need a cleaning occasionally and infrequent replacement. Folks with cat stoves will probably chime in soon enough.
Even with a side loader, your hearth sounds undersized after rear clearances and 16-18" in front are accounted for. That'll depend on the stove.
House layout/description, and maybe some pictures would better allow the real experts on here to help.
Hang around, we don't usually bite.


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## begreen (May 2, 2012)

Castiron stoves that would work: Jotul Oslo, Enviro Boston and Hearthstone Shelburne. In the Hampton line I would look at the H300. In Idaho I think you will be burning a lot of softwood. If so going up a little in size is going to help with longer burntimes. This is also why I recommend the Alderlea T5 over the T4.


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## mellow (May 2, 2012)

Same technology in a Cat stove that is in your car exhaust,  your car will not die and stop running if the Cat goes starts to go bad,  it will just not be as efficient.  You can run a Cat stove without the Cat in extreme circumstances,  heck some people have removed the cats and run the stove for years, it reverts the stove to pre-epa standards and would need to be burned hot to discourage creosote buildup.

Long burn time + small firebox = cat stove

Sounds like you will already have a lot of body heat BTU's going,  you just need a stove that can burn slow and low,  take a look at Buck Stoves as well,  they make a nice small cat stove.


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## Wade A. (May 2, 2012)

Hi Annalea...I'll let others try to sell you on a CAT stove, and I've owned both.  Sounds as if the possibility of non-self-sufficiency with a CAT stove is a deal breaker for you, and that is that.

I will join with those who advise that the set-off from combustible requirements, and hearth R value requirements, are what is going to dictate your range of choices. They vary remarkably from manufacturer to manufacturer, and between the models. The unit you may have your heart set on may not necessarily be suitable.  My advice is to download some stove manuals and most are available free on PDF.  Then, take some careful measurements. Measure again. Have some coffee. Think. Measure again....you get the idea. A good practice is also to cut out a true-life footprint of the stove from a sheet of paper or cardboard. That will help you picture how it will sit. Shoot, you can even do a full sized mock up from the stove dimensions and really get an idea of how much space it will take up. 

If it hasn't been said yet (and it will) you'd do well to get yourself busy on getting your first season's wood cut. Nothing takes the fun out of your first season of burning like fighting with damp wood.  

And far from thinking you are certifiable, I want to see if y'all are taking in lodgers. Will swamp for room and board!


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## PapaDave (May 2, 2012)

Wade makes one of the most important points.....get your firewood. Don't delay, unless you have access to KNOWN dry wood.
Most don't.
I have an older stove, and had loads of fun (read that noting strong sarcasm) the first 3 years.


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## Backwoods Savage (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Okay, this is FANTASTIC. Tons of info, several new stoves to consider (all of which are available locally! Yes!), and well-written, informative posts. I could kiss the lot of you. ;-)
> 
> Try as I might, I just can't like the Woodstock stoves. Their looks just aren't working for me, but the biggie is that I can't get past the idea that it would be unusable after a fairly predictable lifespan if I couldn't get a replacement part. I can stockpile gaskets, and even door glass, but those aren't expected to fail usually, are they?
> 
> ...


 
Welcome to the forum Annalea. You sound a bit like my wife and I when we last went stove shopping. We too were afraid of the cat stoves and the Hearthstone line was the first ones we looked at and loved the looks especially of the Heritage. Now we are very happy that we shied away from the Hearthstone line. We also liked some of the Lopi stoves. But in the back of our mind, we had seen some brochures or advertisements from Woodstock many years previous so we talked to them. Awwwwwwww. The danged things have a cat. No.

Long story short, they set me up with a Woodstock owner and we paid them a visit. I laughed when I first saw the stove. "How on earth would that little stove heat our drafty old house?" It turned out that I had some business dealing with this man many years ago and he is very well respected. He told us things about the stove and especially about Woodstock that just about blew our mind. Could any company possibly be as good as this man projected?

We ordered a Fireview. That was in February 2007. We installed it in September 2007 (the 6 month guarantee was extended for us). There was a short learning curve with this stove but we caught on right away. Here is one picture showing the stove and the wood rack on the porch. Notice how close to the stove the wood is but still outdoors. Nice.



But what about the stove? Best thing I can say is that it cut our wood needs right in half! That's right, we burn only half the wood we used to. Actually now even less after adding some insulation to the house. Another thing is how clean this stove burns. We have cleaned our chimney one time in 5 years. It was 3 years ago. Today the chimney is still clean as is the cap. This means less work.

So we have less work in cleaning the chimney and less work putting up the firewood. What about this maintenance thing? Good question and I'm glad you asked. The cat does need to be cleaned every now and then. Of course if you have good wood, which any stove needs, then you can do like we do. We clean it once during mid winter and once during the annual summer cleaning. We could easily skip the mid-winter cleaning and probably will next winter. So how is this cleaning accomplished? Glad you asked?

To clean the cat, you wait until the stove needs wood. We wait until a nice warm day, like a January thaw. Rather than adding wood, we do let the coals burn down a little bit more. Woodstock naturally says to let the stove get cold. We just wear welder's gloves, which happen to be the same pair we always wear when adding wood. So we put the gloves on, lift the top lid, reach in with one hand and lift out the cat. I take it to the porch and lightly brush it with an old paint brush. Put the cat back in, close the lid and add wood. Total time to clean the cat is usually 2-3 minutes.

What about gaskets? Woodstock had a maintenance kit they put together that has everything you need including instructions. We have replaced one gasket as we were not happy with the way it came from the factory. No charge for the gasket or cement. We replaced the cat last winter. No charge.

Customer Service. Woodstock is second to none! You can do a search on this forum and read many, many posts about Woodstock's customer service. You can call them six days a week on a toll free line. The are extremely helpful in all aspects. And do not forget that famous guarantee. If you buy their stove and decide it is not the stove for you, there is the six month full money back guarantee. Not many that I know of who can match this.

Oh yes, what about this cooking thing? Well, during the winter months it seems to be quite rare that my wife does not have something cooking on this stove. It works great.

Good luck to you no matter how you go on the stove.

Now I could and probably should go on and on about the wood. If you intend to burn wood, it should already be split and stacked and out in the wind to dry NOW! Do not make the common mistake of putting in the stove and then getting the wood. It does not work! Wood needs time to dry and if  you buy wood, beware. You no doubt will not be able to buy dry wood even though you will be told it is ready to burn. So do yourself a favor and get the wood now.


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## Armoured (May 2, 2012)

I'm thinking the only stove that will work for you is the one that I secretly want to buy for myself.


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## tfdchief (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> So, that leaves me with the Hampton H200, the Alderlea T4/5, and a Jotul


I should have said, the Hampton H300 is a little bigger and maybe a better choice if you are considering that brand.    There are a lot of really good choices offered here by many.....always a tough choice.


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Armoured said:


> I'm thinking the only stove that will work for you is the one that I secretly want to buy for myself.


 
lol . . . and which stove would that be?


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Okay, to help clear up some confusion about placement and hearth size, here is the floor plan.  Please be sure to read the notes below it. 






Okay, here's the key:

Black box: Ikea's approximation of a woodstove.  24" x 24"
Blue square to the right of stove: Approximation of water heater closet.
Blue skinny rectangle to the left of stove: approximation of a railing to help keep small children away from stove. (Our youngest is about 18 months.)

The space for the stove isn't an alcove--just an L-shaped wall that's open to the kitchen & living room (living room is off to the right, not visible in this plan).
The L shape is 30" deep and about 50" wide.  That's why the non-combustible floor needs to extend into the kitchen.  So far, I haven't seen anything mentioned about hearth material thicker than tile being necessary for any of the stoves that I'm interested in.  (Haven't read up on the Hearthstones, but the Jotul, Hampton, and Alderlea seem to all be good with that.)  Half inch cement board and tile will match the height of the hardwood perfectly, and will meet code and install requirements.

I'm not willing to install a stove that would extend out into the room further than 30" (including rear clearance), so that eliminates the bigger stoves (the Alderlea T5, Jotul Oslo, etc).  Speaking of clearances, how do I find out the recommended clearances for non-combustible walls?  Jotul is the only company that mentions those in the manual.  The others only talk about combustible surface clearances.  And, that said, do I just figure that the wall studs are the combustible surface (even though they're covered in drywall, which has been shows in tests to resist temps of many hundred degrees, and not allow fire to spread through it even when the studs are aflame)?

Thanks!


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## Annalea (May 2, 2012)

Backwoods Savage, almost thou persuadest me to buy a cat stove.   Thanks for the info!  And thanks to you, and Wade, for the advice on wood.  It's still really wet here (we don't finish with the swampy part of the year 'til the middle of May, sometimes early June), so that's when we'll start on wood.  We've got good friends with chainsaws that know how to use them, and we'll make a big party of it (including the wood shed raising).  We'll be able to start on wood in earnest after we're moved.  Right now we need to focus on making sure there's running water and a toilet installed. 

There's so much wood heating here that I believe I'll be able to find good dry wood if ours isn't ready.  I hope we get some good, hot temps this summer so our own wood might be ready, but you never know.  As for hard woods vs. soft woods, our property is mostly firs and spruces.  Yes, there's some white pine and ponderosa, but those are in the minority.  I don't believe that fir and spruce are as hard as your eastern hardwoods, but hopefully they'll burn alright.  Anyone from my neck of the woods that knows what's best available up here?


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## raybonz (May 2, 2012)

Hi AnnaLea welcome to the forum! Lots of good advice has been given and I can only speak to the T-5 or Consolidated Dutchwest stoves. The T-5 is relatively new and so far we love it. Long burns, plenty of heat and ember protection only hearth requirement. I have compiled a partial list of ember protection only hearth and here it it is.. Hope this helps!

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100
Jotul Oslo 500
Jotul Rangely
Hearthstone Bari, Tula and Mansfield
Vermont Castings Encore (with bottom heatshield)
All Enviro freestanding stoves

Good Luck!
Ray


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## begreen (May 2, 2012)

If the stove manual says that reduced clearances are allowable with NFPA wall shielding or some such language, then it is possible to reduce clearances by up to  2/3ds. For Example in the Enviro Boston manual they phrase it this way:
"*ALL CLEARANCES CAN BE REDUCED WITH SHIELDING ACCEPTABLE TO THE LOCAL AUTHORITY." and PE Alderlea says: "Clearances may be reduced with various heat insulating materials. Consult local fire
codes and authorities for approval." But with a rear clearance of only 5" on the T5 (with double-wall pipe), you are not going to get a lot closer. More important should be how well the stove will do the job. Note that with the Alderlea you would not need a side shield wall. The stove sides do not get that hot. I would put up a temporary child gate instead.

How open is this kitchen area to the rest of the house?


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## Ponderosa Pyro (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm a brand-spankin'-newbie here, and can't tell you how glad I am to have found Hearth.com. We're finishing our place on a tight schedule (owner of the rental is selling, and we don't want/can't afford to move twice, especially when we're so close!), and I really need to get the stove figured out.
> 
> ...


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## Ponderosa Pyro (May 2, 2012)

Hi,Annalea,I noticed you are thinking of an ICF house.That is what we built in the mountains above Boise.Idaho City as a matter of fact.We are still finishing the house which is 3000 sq.ft.with a full basement and a 2200 sq.ft.garage.All exterior wall are ICF.I can give you some advice as far as contractors and the building process in general.Oh yeh,we are putting in a Woodstock Progress Hybrid on the main floor.Expect to move into house in approx.2 years.Good luck with your project.North ID is beautiful,but WE have the BSU Broncos down here.I'm sure Oklahoma remembers them!!


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## Dix (May 2, 2012)

Annalea, GF, welcome to the forums !! Always nice to see another "Sistah" here   *thinks Craig should make "Sistah" a real word here*

You're getting some good advice, hang in there, we'll get it done.

8 people in that space? HSF ! You rock


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## Todd (May 2, 2012)

If you don't like the looks of the Woodstock's maybe take a looksee at the new Blaze King Chinook or Sirroco. They are also cat stoves but don't fear them they can be turned way down low for a longer lower output which would be a good fit for your smaller space.


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## BrotherBart (May 2, 2012)

I am still trying to get my head around eight people in 700 sq. ft. !! Somebody gonna have to sleep ON the stove.

Insulate well and body heat and two candles will heat it to 10 below zero.


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## Armoured (May 2, 2012)

Annalea said:


> lol . . . and which stove would that be?


 
In my case, one of the woodstocks is what I'd really like.

Thought on another point: you have a fairly sizeable hot water closet there. Since space is at a premium, and you're numerous, have you considered a tankless water heater? Would save you space (they go on a wall) and with that big a family, tanks are bound to run out anyway.


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## Bub381 (May 2, 2012)

Don't like the looks of a Woodstock?!!lol to each their own.I just put a new Fireview in after the Jotul Rangeley,1 was 2ndary this new 1 is cat.It's the cats meow. Just remember to look long and hard and all the advice you'll need is here.I do know 1 thing,i wish i had gone to this Woodstock stove 1st cause last yr was my 1st yr burning and i looked and studied hard.I went 1 size up from my sq ft allowances and still got too big of a stove resulting in hot temps and creosote build up.The Woodstock 6 month return would've saved me the $1000  loss i had to swallow.Believe me,that hurt.Try selling a second hand stove,you'll get roughly 50% back from that new to you woodstove ya just installed.Not saying this will happen,just saying it sure can.I wish you all the luck in the world,go slow and study hard.


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## tfdchief (May 2, 2012)

raybonz said:


> Hi AnnaLea welcome to the forum! Lots of good advice has been given and I can only speak to the T-5 or Consolidated Dutchwest stoves. The T-5 is relatively new and so far we love it. Long burns, plenty of heat and ember protection only hearth requirement. I have compiled a partial list of ember protection only hearth and here it it is.. Hope this helps!
> 
> All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
> All Pacific Energy models
> ...


I provided the Hampton info and the manual certainly is conflicting.  ember protection on one page and .84K on another page.  However, after burning this stove for over a full year, I can tell you it never gets hot enough under the stove that you can't comfortably hold your hand on it.  I have measured with a IR gun and never found under the stove to be above 110.  It gets hotter out in front of the stove than under it.  That is with the regular legs, in one place in the manual says ember protection only......quite adequate IMO.


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## Annalea (May 3, 2012)

Thanks so much for the info, Steve.  It's really helpful (especially your experience with the Hampton).  Today's a day of packing and reading up on stoves, so you'll all probably see more of me tomorrow . . . I wonder what today has in store . . .


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## Annalea (May 3, 2012)

Well, snot. DH just reminded me that installing a water jacket on the stove is an absolute priority, and he doesn't believe it can be done on any of the beautiful stoves I've found. Does anyone know if there's a way to install a water jacket (not just a steel loop of pipe--those get too hot and fail too soon) on the outside of any cast iron stoves? It's looking like I might end up with a rather unappealing steel box . . . 

Or does anyone know of a reasonably small cookstove?  (Besides the Vermont baker one . . . )


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## charly (May 3, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Well, snot. DH just reminded me that installing a water jacket on the stove is an absolute priority, and he doesn't believe it can be done on any of the beautiful stoves I've found. Does anyone know if there's a way to install a water jacket (not just a steel loop of pipe--those get too hot and fail too soon) on the outside of any cast iron stoves? It's looking like I might end up with a rather unappealing steel box . . .
> 
> Or does anyone know of a reasonably small cookstove? (Besides the Vermont baker one . . . )


I would take a minute a minute and call Woody, at Obadiah's Wood Stoves. Tell him your situation, he sells a variety of stoves and wood cook stoves. I bought my Esse cook stove from him. Good honest Christian person. 1-800-968-8604.
                                                                                                      Charlie


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## learningasigoalong (May 3, 2012)

Welcome Annalea,

I'm new too and all I can say is wow. So many responses and so much help. Makes me wish I had come here before I got my stove (last October). I have a Jotul F3 in 750s/ft and use it to heat up one room upstairs too. Its cast iron and non cat. I have no complaints but we did not have a tough winter this year (so. NH) so I need to see how it does in a cold winter to be a better judge of stove vs. space. Above all else, listen to the pros here, you should probably shop for your wood supply while you decide on the stove. In my short time as a wood stove owner I can honestly say you can never have enough fire wood and the more seasoned the better.

Good Luck


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## NH_Wood (May 3, 2012)

I wonder if you should consider purchasing a used, cheap stove for use in this small space, and then save for the perfect stove for your larger home you plan to build in the next few years. It wouldn't be fun to find out that the stove you spent a lot of money on for the small home is not the best fit for the new construction. Just my 2 cents. I've been very happy with my Mansfield for the past two seasons. No problems. Good luck! Cheers!


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## mfglickman (May 3, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Backwoods Savage, almost thou persuadest me to buy a cat stove.  Thanks for the info! And thanks to you, and Wade, for the advice on wood. It's still really wet here (we don't finish with the swampy part of the year 'til the middle of May, sometimes early June), so that's when we'll start on wood. We've got good friends with chainsaws that know how to use them, and we'll make a big party of it (including the wood shed raising). We'll be able to start on wood in earnest after we're moved. Right now we need to focus on making sure there's running water and a toilet installed.
> 
> There's so much wood heating here that I believe I'll be able to find good dry wood if ours isn't ready. I hope we get some good, hot temps this summer so our own wood might be ready, but you never know. As for hard woods vs. soft woods, our property is mostly firs and spruces. Yes, there's some white pine and ponderosa, but those are in the minority. I don't believe that fir and spruce are as hard as your eastern hardwoods, but hopefully they'll burn alright. Anyone from my neck of the woods that knows what's best available up here?


 
Hi there,

I bought a 20 year old Woodstock Fireview this winter. I replaced the entire baffle, cat assembly, cat and most of the gaskets all by myself - with help from the sweep who installed it banging the old assembly out with a sledgehammer. All in I think it was $200 of parts, $120 or so of which was the cat itself. The cat is just a little box that you take out and dust off or take out and remove. 

You were saying you can stockpile gaskets and door glass (???) but not a cat, and I'm not sure why.

All in I paid about half the cost of a full price new FV and reused an existing item rather than buying new which also appealed to me (and I'm guessing from your posts that might also appeal to you).


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## Annalea (May 3, 2012)

I would love it if I could find a used stove that's a modern, efficient model.  I'm concerned with keeping a really clean burn and keeping things as safe as possible.  I've just found a Napoleon 1400C on Craigslist (local) for $1800, supposedly still in the crate due to the house sale for which it was purchased falling through.  That stove has the right dimensions and requirements . . . my only question is if the back is flat enough that we could mount a slender water reservoir (just a couple gallons) to it.  The sides are beautiful, but definitely not suited to that kind of purpose.

Any Napoleon 1400C owners out there that could tell me if the back of the stove is flat?


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## mfglickman (May 3, 2012)

Annalea said:


> I would love it if I could find a used stove that's a modern, efficient model. I'm concerned with keeping a really clean burn and keeping things as safe as possible. I've just found a Napoleon 1400C on Craigslist (local) for $1800, supposedly still in the crate due to the house sale for which it was purchased falling through. That stove has the right dimensions and requirements . . . my only question is if the back is flat enough that we could mount a slender water reservoir (just a couple gallons) to it. The sides are beautiful, but definitely not suited to that kind of purpose.
> 
> Any Napoleon 1400C owners out there that could tell me if the back of the stove is flat?


 
Well my modern efficient stove is 20 years old...so they are out there as long as they've been cared for and the mfr still backs them up (big big kudos to Woodstock here for helping me throughout the process even though I did not buy a new stove).

What do you mean about a water reservoir on the back of the stove? Your clearances look pretty slim as is - if you want to heat water you could put a cast iron pot on the stove and have it steaming all day (double duty to hydrate the air AND have quick instant hot water on hand for tea etc.).

I am curious, too, when looking at the pics, about how a side loader is going to work in that space. If you're both trying to pinch in the clearances to the minimum AND then trying to use splits that are as long as your firebox can hold (assume 14 - 20 inch splits) to maximize space and save the woodcutter's sanity (of having to cut everything to, say, 10 inches), I'm afraid you're going to run into some aggravation loading from the side. You need to be able to open the door and then maneuver a split into a sometimes tight and often hot space, without bashing the wall/railings or burning your forearms. Just food for thought before you finalize your plan, I guess....

I'm also a bit uncertain on your comment above about sheetrock withstanding hundreds of degrees while the studs beneath them burn - sheetrock is a combustible...and if you heat it over and over again it (along with the studs behind it) lower their combustibility point. This is why mfrs require heat shields, R value on hearth pads, etc. to ensure that your studs don't just catch fire at a low temp two years from now...And if your studs are in flames, well, you'd better be out and calling the fire department. 

If this is all stuff you already know, please disregard and cyber-slap me. I'm just trying to think for your best interest/success in this.... 

Mary


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## Annalea (May 3, 2012)

Hi Mary, and thanks for the comments. I appreciate the cross-examination, since it questions my assumptions, and helps me get things straight. Thank you for keeping my best interest in mind.  A lot of the details are still up in the air, but I'm trying to get things as figured out as I can well ahead of time. I'm so tired of having decisions sprung on me at the last second, and making choices that end up messing with plans for other things, ya know? So, I figure ironing this out as much as I can, poking at my assumptions and hopes and daydreams will allow me to see what works and what doesn't. I appreciate everyone who has been part of the process, and it has all helped a ton so far.

And now, on to your questions.

*Modern stoves:* I would love to find a good, used stove. I'm keeping my eyes open, definitely. Thanks for letting me know that there are good, older stoves, that are efficient and clean burning. (I'm still having a hard time grasping the fact that 20 years ago wasn't the stone age . . . must have something to do with aging, but I'm not sure what yet. It's new territory to me. lol)

*Reservoir:* With a slightly smaller stove, we could put a reservoir on the back of the stove that would only add 2" to the overall depth. The reservoir could also be mounted to the side, if the stove had a flat side plate. It would be plumbed into the water heater (in the closet just to the left of the stove in the floor plan earlier in the thread), and the water would circulate via thermosiphon. (That's a fun word to type. lol) It only needs to hold a couple gallons of water, since it'll be connected to the super insulated 55 gallon water heater with both inlet & outlet lines. We're wanting to stay away from needing electricity/propane to heat water, since we're already heating with wood (and odds are the stove will be more than up to it). We'll also have a solar water heating setup, but DH doesn't want to pay for a year-round vacuum tube (i.e. expensive) system. I do, but that's mostly because the stoves I like wouldn't necessarily accept a reservoir very well, and I don't want to mess with more pipes and stuff in the hearth area.  Water coils inside the stove have a host of problems reservoirs don't have, and so we're not going there.

*Side loading: * I'm looking for a stove with a left side-loading door (as you're standing in front of the stove). That would face into the living room, and I could mount a swing-gate there in the railing to allow for easier access.

*Sheetrock:* I saw a video once, showing how sheetrock, exposed directly to flame for fifteen minutes, didn't catch fire, nor did it allow the fire to spread to the other side of the rock. Here's one short article that explains it more clearly: http://archrecord.construction.com/resources/conteduc/archives/0210gypsum-3.asp That said, we might end up taking out the drywall and putting up some kind of backerboard for tile. It all depends on what our code guy says. I'm definitely not one to skimp on safety, and I'll be checking on all of this in more detail soon. I haven't had a chance to talk to our stove installer friend yet about codes, etc.

K, this probably has more holes in it than answers, but I've got to go change a diaper. Right. Now. 

Thanks again!


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## BrowningBAR (May 3, 2012)

It is slim pickins in your area for a good used wood stove. This was all I could find, and most will still require a damn good car ride.

Jotul f400
http://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/for/2981564578.html

VC Encore (probably not a good choice for a first time burner)
http://kpr.craigslist.org/app/2984582849.html

A Hearthstone that seems to have licensed out their designs to "Soap Stone Wood Burning Stove". Looks to be an older design of the Heritage based on the depth of the stove.
http://twinfalls.craigslist.org/hsh/2942659409.html

Sweet Home Stove Works. I do not know this comapny/model, but it does look like it has reburn tubes in it so it seems to be an EPA model.
http://elko.craigslist.org/fuo/2953401859.html

Jotul f100
http://kpr.craigslist.org/wan/2954753096.html

Picture is of an Jotul f500, but the owner does not state which model it is.
http://reno.craigslist.org/for/2946313125.html


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## begreen (May 3, 2012)

> Well, snot. DH just reminded me that installing a water jacket on the stove is an absolute priority


 
Does DH understand what he is asking for and is he willing to install correctly and safely? Have you discussed this with your insurance agent and inspector?


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## mellow (May 3, 2012)

Annalea said:


> *Reservoir:* With a slightly smaller stove, we could put a reservoir on the back of the stove that would only add 2" to the overall depth. The reservoir could also be mounted to the side, if the stove had a flat side plate. It would be plumbed into the water heater (in the closet just to the left of the stove in the floor plan earlier in the thread), and the water would circulate via thermosiphon. (That's a fun word to type. lol) It only needs to hold a couple gallons of water, since it'll be connected to the super insulated 55 gallon water heater with both inlet & outlet lines. We're wanting to stay away from needing electricity/propane to heat water, since we're already heating with wood (and odds are the stove will be more than up to it). We'll also have a solar water heating setup, but DH doesn't want to pay for a year-round vacuum tube (i.e. expensive) system. I do, but that's mostly because the stoves I like wouldn't necessarily accept a reservoir very well, and I don't want to mess with more pipes and stuff in the hearth area. Water coils inside the stove have a host of problems reservoirs don't have, and so we're not going there.


 
Check out this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...duct-testing-with-pre-epa-stove-owners.77583/

Maybe you can buy an older stove for now and use that (if they still sell them) to heat the water with INSIDE the stove. No idea if it works or not but I remember that post from a ways back.


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## granpajohn (May 3, 2012)

You are right about gypsum drywall being less than combustible (long story),  BUT...
...for the purpose of stove codes, a typical drywall-on-stud wall is a combustible surface.

Don't worry though; there are plenty of stove backing designs to get close clearance, if necessary. Just depends on the look you prefer.


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## fossil (May 3, 2012)

The only wall construction that pops into my mind as being non-combustible would be solid masonry or stone. Yeah, it'd be tough to start a piece of gypsum board on fire...but it's a crappy thermal insulator, readily transferring heat to the wood 1/2" away. A drywall-on-wooden stud wall is a combustible wall. Rick

ETA:  About the water jacket/reservoir idea.  While I certainly understand the temptation to take advantage of the heat generated by a wood burning appliance, I think that for all your efforts you would put into making that work, you'd be sorely disappointed with the performance.  At the same time, you'd be altering the appliance in such a way as to void the manufacturer's warranty, which is based on the appliance being in the "as tested/certified" condition/configuration.


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## Annalea (May 3, 2012)

begreen said:


> Does DH understand what he is asking for and is he willing to install correctly and safely? Have you discussed this with your insurance agent and inspector?


 
DH does understand, and no, we haven't yet.  He has researched pretty well, and talked thoroughly with a preparedness expert who has heated water this way for years. (Wood stove water reservoir in winter, solar thermosiphon in summer.) But, as with most things, it all depends on current codes, stoves, etc. I've narrowed down my pickings to stoves that seem to have flat backs (and/or sides):

Hampton H200
Hearthstone Heritage
Napoleon 1400C (possibly--the schematics aren't really clear it's the same model in the manual)
Napoleon 1100C
Jotul F3 & F100
Alderlea T4

Oh, and the Napoleon 1150 cookstove. (Not my favorite for looks, but it would get the job done, and I've seen plenty less attractive stoves in my day. )

I'm not all that thrilled with losing some depth in the firebox to a water reservoir, but we'll see what we end up talking through.  One thing I can say about my DH (and he really is a dear, not a darn) is that he's open-minded and we talk through everything, and 99 times out of 100, we agree when we're all done.  The other 1% of the time, I usually get my way. )

And, lest anyone think I'm overly influenced by looks, I've lived in so many places in the last fifteen years (moved nine times in our 13.5 years together), so many places that I couldn't fix what was broken or nasty or ugly because we were renting or about to sell (we've owned two homes and rented seven), that this home of ours simply must be lovely.  It doesn't have to be top of the line, or uber-designer-beautiful . . . but it's mine, and I want to make it lovely to me.  So, no Blaze Kings!  (No offense to any BK afficionadoes out there . . . beauty and the beholder, and all that.)

Hmmmm . . . I think I need to start a spreadsheet. The data is getting to be more than I can hold in my head . . .


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## Ashful (May 3, 2012)

Not sure I understand the concern with cat stoves.  For most stoves, UPS or Fed Ex can have you a new cat overnight, in the unlikely event of a complete and instantaneous failure.  Normal cat maintenance is as simple as vacuuming it a few times per year, maybe doing the vinegar soak once per year, and replacing every 3-5 years for $150.  I don't see reburn flutes in non-cat stoves as being more indestructible, given the number of threads inquiring about replacing them.


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## eclecticcottage (May 3, 2012)

With the size of the house and need to heat the hot water, have you considered an outdoor wood boiler?

$1800 for a used stove?  I paid about that for the Republic new (not including taxes, install and piping).

I get what you're saying about the blaze kings, but look at the new sirocco.  It doesn't look like a BK.


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## begreen (May 3, 2012)

Annalea said:


> DH does understand, and no, we haven't yet. He has researched pretty well, and talked thoroughly with a preparedness expert who has heated water this way for years. (Wood stove water reservoir in winter, solar thermosiphon in summer.) But, as with most things, it all depends on current codes, stoves, etc.


 
What is a preparedness "expert" and what is that expert preparing for?


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## KaptJaq (May 4, 2012)

begreen said:


> What is a preparedness "expert" and what is that expert preparing for?


 
That might be a discussion for a different forum...


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## Armoured (May 4, 2012)

Annalea said:


> DH just reminded me that installing a water jacket on the stove is an absolute priority...


 
There are a lot of absolute priorities adding up here 

Since you're also building a new house and presumably the priorities for that house will be even more strict, it's probably more important to figure out which are really important in short and long term and which wins. The old engineering dilemma: you can have it good, you can have it fast, or you can have it cheap - pick two (maximum). (I guess you can have it pretty makes it even more complicated...)

We can weigh in a bit with some info and opinions but your choices matter more. Speaking personally, I'd downgrade the desire to get hot water from the stove for a couple of seasons, and focus on the longer term for off-grid hotwater in the new place; just sounds too complicated to try and perfect the hot water system off wood heat for what might only be a few years. Space and time sound like the premium at the current place. There are mixed versions, like you could get a stove that can boil water and use that for dishes, keep big pots of stew going for your family, whatever, to get there partway for the part of the year the sun won't do it.

But that's just an opinion on what I might prioritize first in your situation - only you and DH can decide.


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## raybonz (May 4, 2012)

learningasigoalong said:


> Welcome Annalea,
> 
> I'm new too and all I can say is wow. So many responses and so much help. Makes me wish I had come here before I got my stove (last October). I have a Jotul F3 in 750s/ft and use it to heat up one room upstairs too. Its cast iron and non cat. I have no complaints but we did not have a tough winter this year (so. NH) so I need to see how it does in a cold winter to be a better judge of stove vs. space. Above all else, listen to the pros here, you should probably shop for your wood supply while you decide on the stove. In my short time as a wood stove owner I can honestly say you can never have enough fire wood and the more seasoned the better.
> 
> Good Luck


Great comments on the wood supply! This is so important..

Ray


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## Obadiah (May 5, 2012)

Greetings everyone, lots of great info!!
I've been following this thread and was surprised that no one threw this one out here. The Bakers Oven/Vermont Bun Baker is a very unique cookstove that seems to meet the criteria here.
Small footprint, good heating abilities, cooking abilities, boiler option for domestic hot water, this stove seems to a pretty good option.
Well built, efficient and easy to operate.
There seems to be alot of confusion out there concerning a few things, clearances and domestic hot water heating. We have made some YouTube's dealing with these issues that may be helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodyChain/videos?query=reducing+clearances+to+combustibles
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodyChain/videos?query=domestic+hot+water
We'll be posting an update to this this spring where we'll You Tube a customer who has actually has been heating their water with their Ironheart during the winter and the sun in the summer.

Woody


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## begreen (May 5, 2012)

Good suggestion woody. Thanks for checking in. I didn't know the Baker's Bun had the water jacket option.


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## Obadiah (May 5, 2012)

Always happy to help!


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## Annalea (May 5, 2012)

Hi everyone . . . thanks for the continued comments.

Yeah, there are a lot of "absolute" requirements. Which ones *really* merit that title differ depending on who you ask: DH or me.  I really value all of the poking at possibilities and my comments, making me reassess things, and look at the situation from perspectives I hadn't yet considered. And thanks so much for the kindness and respect with which the poking has been done. 

Being new, I'm not sure of the etiquette of replying to everyone's questions with individual posts, so I'll lump them all in here. (Btw, is there a way to "burn someone's ears", so they'll get a notification I've mentioned them in a post? My other favorite forum has that capability, so you don't have to reply to everyone that you want to notify of new info in a thread. Thought I'd ask.) K, here goes:

BrowningBAR: Thanks so much for taking the time to scout Craigslist for stoves for me. It's much appreciated! We'll be taking a trip out to Portland to Ikea in a month or two (cabinets, sinks, and a few things like that), and I'll make sure to search out there for stoves, as well, when the things we need from Ikea are in stock.

eclecticcottage: I'm not sure an outdoor boiler would work with the way we've got things set up . . . and I'm definitely sure DH wouldn't go for it. Fwiw, the space is so small that a stove sized up a notch (that still fits in the space) would put out enough heat that we'd be fine heating water and the space.

begreen: The aforementioned preparedness expert could also be termed a Self-Reliance expert. He has experience in designing, building, and consulting on self-reliant/self-sufficient residences, techniques and practices. We're not looking to be totally self-sufficient, but for peace of mind we really like to be as self-reliant as we reasonably can. (Our definition of "reasonably" probably differs with most, though. And so you can see, KaptJaq is right. Totally 'nuther forum material.) 

Armoured: I completely agree. Your three (or four) priorities sound a lot like the Iron Triangle of software development: features, price & time. You can constrain any two, but try to constrain the third, and someone (usually the developer) will end up in the doghouse, every time. (You'll never guess what DH does for a living . . .) I'm going to show your comment to DH, and see what he thinks.

Woody: Thanks for the tip. I had seen the Vermont Bun Baker, and I really love it. If we were to really go high end with a stove, that would be it (water jacket included). The water jacket looks like it goes in the firebox, in the back. Is that correct? We're planning on having a thermosiphon system between the woodstove water jacket and the water heater (which will only kick on when the stove or solar system aren't heating the water sufficiently). The water heater is up on a seriously reinforced shelf about 40" from the floor.

If I've missed anyone, please pipe up. Today has been spent lying low, trying to not get sick (a day of prevention is worth a week of cure). I really need to get out and see some of the stoves I'm interested in, in person. I think that will help a ton, especially with the water jacket idea. We can make our own, if we can find a stove with a side flat enough to allow a decent amount of contact with a reservoir (whether mounted to the stove, or the floor).


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## Armoured (May 5, 2012)

Annalea said:


> Your three (or four) priorities sound a lot like the Iron Triangle of software development: features, price & time. You can constrain any two, but try to constrain the third, and someone (usually the developer) will end up in the doghouse, every time. (You'll never guess what DH does for a living . . .) I'm going to show your comment to DH, and see what he thinks.


 
I heard it originally from an engineer, but I think it's exactly the same idea in software; it also turns up in other fields, like economics (where it's called the impossible trinity, or sometimes even unholy trinity, and there actually is a parallel with religion, since the trinity in a sense is something that seems contradictory...but that truly is off-topic).

Anyway, take my comments on the domestic hot water with a grain of salt; I'm less familiar with the options there, and meant it more as an example of what I would (likely, personally) drop in the short term in favour of devoting resources for a longer-term solution for the new house. You and DH will have to make the decisions.

Unfortunately it's human nature we'll regret some of the compromises we make after the fact (even if they really were the best choice at the time). Sounds to me, though, like you'll both be busy enough to not dwell on them!


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## Obadiah (May 6, 2012)

Yes your correct it does install in the lower part of the back of the firebox, in place of the firebrick that normally would be there. Hopefully you can see by the picture I included.
If you check out the YouTubes on Domestic Hot Water that I included in my previous post, I cover some different boiler options and how they can be installed outside of the firebox. That may be helpful. 
We have lived off grid in NW Montana since 1999. We have used wind, solar and hydro as well as a generator to provide power. We've learned the hard way how to do some of this stuff, always glad to share what we've learned in hopes that folks can avoid the same mistakes. Bottomline, where there's a will, there's a way.....the trick is which is the right way......Being as self sufficient
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
  as possible has always been my desire, so I can respect where your coming from. There is a certain satisfaction one gets from this kind of lifestyle, it is anything but easy, but the payoff is worth it.
You've come to the right place to find info, lots of down to earth folk willin to help....


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## granpajohn (May 6, 2012)

Annalea said:


> ...the etiquette of replying ...


 
Etiquette?
What next? Stihl and Husky owners living together?
(OT joking. OK, that's enough; back to the original topic.)


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## begreen (May 6, 2012)

Annalea said:


> begreen: The aforementioned preparedness expert could also be termed a Self-Reliance expert. He has experience in designing, building, and consulting on self-reliant/self-sufficient residences, techniques and practices. We're not looking to be totally self-sufficient, but for peace of mind we really like to be as self-reliant as we reasonably can. (Our definition of "reasonably" probably differs with most, though. And so you can see, KaptJaq is right. Totally 'nuther forum material.)


 
Thanks for the clarification. You will find several folks here that have unplugged or have reduced their dependencies on the grid, big oil, etc..

Back to the stove, DH might enjoy reading John Gulland's adaptation of his Pacific Energy stove to hot water. John is something of a guru for woodheating and he is a strong advocate for independent living. I've posted an article on how to choose a woodstove for homesteading that you may enjoy reading.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/how-to-choose-a-woodstove.86602/

On his own site he has a wealth of info on renewables. Be sure to check his link (on right side of page) about his stove.
http://www.gulland.ca/homenergy/whyrenewable.htm


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## firecracker_77 (May 6, 2012)

I have a Heritage and a Woodstock gas stove.  The Hearthstone is a better looking brand than the Woodstock.  My Heritage does not have as long of a burn time as I would like.  It would be nice to have someone in your household rekindle that fire every 5 hours if you want a decent bed of coals at all times.


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## firecracker_77 (May 6, 2012)

firecracker_77 said:


> I have a Heritage and a Woodstock gas stove. The Hearthstone is a better looking brand than the Woodstock. My Heritage does not have as long of a burn time as I would like. It would be nice to have someone in your household rekindle that fire every 5 hours if you want a decent bed of coals at all times.


 
Buy a used stove from someone who knew what they were doing when it comes to operating it and not abusing it.  Even with high shipping costs, you should cut at least $1,000 off the price of a new stove.


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## rdust (May 6, 2012)

With a space that small I wouldn't buy anything but a cat stove that can be burned slow and low.  Keep a spare cat on the shelf and all your worries will go away.  A space that small with 8 people in it won't have much heat demand, the heat being put off by it's occupants will almost be enough to keep it warm!


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## firecracker_77 (May 6, 2012)

rdust said:


> With a space that small I wouldn't buy anything but a cat stove that can be burned slow and low. Keep a spare cat on the shelf and all your worries will go away. A space that small with 8 people in it won't have much heat demand, the heat being put off by it's occupants will almost be enough to keep it warm!


 
That's a good point.  8 bodies do generate alot of warmth.


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## firefighterjake (May 7, 2012)

granpajohn said:


> Etiquette?
> What next? Stihl and Husky owners living together?
> (OT joking. OK, that's enough; back to the original topic.)


 

Some of my best friends use Stilhls.


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## MarkinNC (May 12, 2012)

Have you hubby take a look at this.  I suspect he will like this channel as well,


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## scotsman (May 12, 2012)

Annalea, With regard to wood. An interim solution might be to locate a pallet manufacturer in your area. They usually make their pallets using hardwoods for durability. They will usually receive used pallets and use undamaged parts to make new ones. This invariably yields pieces that are perfect for woodstoves, is already dry and can allow you to get your "normal" wood supply in and drying while you enjoy good hardwood heat. I have found such a place and now have a 10 cord/week source for wood that is kiln dried and moisture levels below 6%. In fact, the fellows have agreed to cut the wood to my stove length and throw it into a 4 foot cube bin for me to come get when needed. So, far I've burned about two cords of this wood and have found it more satisfactory than split cordwood. (I do not USE 10 cords/week, but it's there if I needed it!)

A downside is that it will contain nails inside the wood, but, according to my stove's manufacturer, will not affect the operation of the stove or damage anything. I have a magnet that I pick up the nails with before I clean the stove. Works great.

I, too, looked at Hearthstone (the Equinox), but could not afford it (around here anyway, it's not very competitive, stove-wise!). After grilling many members (pun intended) here about the cat/non-cat issue and essentially doing what you're doing now, I made my choice and have been happy with it since. My first stove was under-sized for my place, but they took it back and sent me the larger version, which has done well.

Keep asking/analyzing and searching. If it exists, you'll get there. The people on this board cannot be beat for helpfulness, knowledge and patience. Lord knows, and they will tell you, I've tried some of 'em past limits! ROFL!

Good luck. You'll get there.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (May 12, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> I am still trying to get my head around eight people in 700 sq. ft. !! Somebody gonna have to sleep ON the stove.
> 
> Insulate well and body heat and two candles will heat it to 10 below zero.


 
True that! We've a couple of hundred feet on that with only two. I do like that water idea. BB? 

Best wishing on stove shopping!


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## BrotherBart (May 12, 2012)

Most people that try to make water heaters out of their wood stove not only wreck the efficiency of the stove by sucking heat out of the firebox needed for a clean burn but also create a hand grenade in their house in the process.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (May 12, 2012)

buzzkill


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## BrotherBart (May 12, 2012)

~*~Kathleen~*~ said:


> buzzkill


 
Don't worry. Somebody will come along and say they have been doing it since ought 3 and never had a problem. A lot of stoves in Europe heat water too. Never seem to make it here because they choke with the EPA tests. Kinda says something. And screwing up with pipes with high pressure in them will not only ruin your whole day, but your living room too.

I have thought about it for twenty years with the stoves in the basement. Thought about it, forgot about it and just let the electric water heater do what it does well.


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## Armoured (May 13, 2012)

BrotherBart said:


> Most people that try to make water heaters out of their wood stove not only wreck the efficiency of the stove by sucking heat out of the firebox needed for a clean burn but also create a hand grenade in their house in the process.


 

Woodheat has some gruesome pictures: http://woodheat.org/heating-water-with-a-wood-stove.html


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