# What a waste.



## BrotherBart (Dec 22, 2019)

A 78-foot alligator bonfire was just built on a Mississippi River levee
					

A group of friends in Louisiana have been following a longstanding tradition of building massive holiday bonfires that are big enough to stop anyone in their tracks. But instead of going tall with their build, they went long with a 78-foot alligator display.




					www.cnn.com


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## EatenByLimestone (Dec 22, 2019)

Pretty cool!


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## gregbesia (Dec 22, 2019)

Where are all the tree huggers and fake environmentalists now? Sickening.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

gregbesia said:


> Where are all the tree huggers and fake environmentalists now? Sickening.


Here I am!  Yeah, we humans do a lot of stupid, wasteful things in pursuit of entertainment. We can only hope it was not seasoned wood.  Or maybe we should hope it was; Maybe then it would burn cleaner.


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## Socratic Monologue (Dec 22, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Yeah, we humans do a lot of stupid, wasteful things in pursuit of entertainment.


It would be difficult to overstate this point.  We all do it, but we rarely admit it.
A nice little house could have been framed up for someone in need with all that lumber, and would be more in line with Christmas spirit than a fancy celebration of some meaningless myth ("Papa Noel").


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It would be difficult to overstate this point.  We all do it, but we rarely admit it.


I'll admit it; I may have just done something stupid.
I just saw a pan of "ash" I had outside, and pitched it in the woods. I forgot that I had set it out there to cool, and was going to send it to the landfill since it had creo in it that I had scraped from the inside of the stove. I'm thinking I mighta done wrong, adding it to the environment..


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## Socratic Monologue (Dec 22, 2019)

Sincere question: are we supposed to not dump creosote/flue sweepings in the same way we do ashes (I put my ashes on the garden, or on the compost pile, after fully cooled)?


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

Well, I'm pretty sure it's carcinogenic if we were to eat it, but maybe it breaks down out there?


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## Socratic Monologue (Dec 22, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> maybe it breaks down out there?


That's what I've been assuming, but I guess I never thought too hard about it.  I'm pretty rigorous about keeping non-biodegradables out of the environment, but pretty lax about stuff that seems like it will turn to dirt fairly quickly.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

I dump ashes on the garden or compost heap, and there are no doubt chips of creo in there. Apparently it _does_ break down eventually.




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						Public Health Statements | ATSDR
					






					www.atsdr.cdc.gov


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

I _have_ been tossing my chimney sweepings in the trash.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 22, 2019)

I put it in my driveway. The ash and creo acts like cement.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 22, 2019)

But yeah, I hate seeing this kind of waste. I don't even burn brush anymore instead opting to shred it and return the carbon to the soil, or make a nice place to walk.


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## Grizzerbear (Dec 22, 2019)

I just see a major waste of time. It is neat no doubt but time and firewood could have been much better spent.


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## Mech e (Dec 22, 2019)

This kind of nonsense goes on every year on the Black Rock Desert in the name of a sustainable future at Burning Man.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

We have an occasion fire pit here, and I burn a few Pine splits that would be better used for kindling. and then there' that black smoke that comes off of it. I guess I could do better. It sure looks nice and feels warm though, with the beer cooling my innards.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 22, 2019)

Mech e said:


> This kind of nonsense goes on every year on the Black Rock Desert in the name of a sustainable future at Burning Man.


Burning man has nothing to do with a sustainable future. I think folks need educational videos about their opposite political ideology. You'd be surprised with how much you have in common with your fellow human being regardless of political view. We all have far more in common than we do separating us.


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## jetsam (Dec 22, 2019)

I have to say that pretty much all of this thread mystifies me, both the original story and the responses.

Well done, Internet. Well done.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> You'd be surprised with how much you have in common with your fellow human being regardless of political view. We all have far more in common than we do separating us.


Right. The powers that be are now employing the classic, age-old "divide and conquer" strategy. We need to realize who the _*real*_ enemy is. We are at a point now where it's, to quote a Zappa album title, "Them or Us." Where is the mad smilie when you need it??


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## fvhowler (Dec 22, 2019)

One man's waste is another man's treasure. Enjoy and be safe.


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## EatenByLimestone (Dec 22, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It would be difficult to overstate this point.  We all do it, but we rarely admit it.
> A nice little house could have been framed up for someone in need with all that lumber, and would be more in line with Christmas spirit than a fancy celebration of some meaningless myth ("Papa Noel").



I'm pretty sure they'd be pretty upset when those guys lit it on fire though.


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## MTY (Dec 22, 2019)

I am surprised that is on here.  About a week ago I posted a picture of a slash burn.  These are pretty common in the NW, but mine was different in that the slash pile was junk wood out of the old orchard.  It was set on the side of the hill so that when the winter snow and rain did its thing, the ash would leach into the field that is being reforested this spring.  

I labled the pic as a campfire, so maybe that was the reason it disappeared.  The flames were probably 25-30 feet in the air, but it was our first good covering of snow, and I thought it the best day so far this year to light it off.  After the fire burned out, I pulled about 100 feet of barb wire out of the ash pile.  It had been attached to the trees, so I could not have chipped it if I wanted to.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

jetsam said:


> I have to say that pretty much all of this thread mystifies me, both the original story and the responses.
> Well done, Internet. Well done.


Waachoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? You got me blocked, and didn't even read the whole thread!  
Reminds me of a local college station here; "Siri, where do Ninjas live?" Siri: "I couldn't find any results for 'Where do Ninjas live.' "
"Well played, Ninjas, well played."


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## Woody Stover (Dec 22, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Zappa album title, "Them or Us."


Posted the song in the Inglenook forum, if you've got a few minutes.  As with a lot of Zappa, you have to listen to it ten times before you even _*begin*_ to get it.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 23, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Right. The powers that be are now employing the classic, age-old "divide and conquer" strategy. We need to realize who the _*real*_ enemy is. We are at a point now where it's, to quote a Zappa album title, "Them or Us." Where is the mad smilie when you need it??


Not much of a Zappa man myself, but I definitely agree with the message. 

This forum is a really neat place where I've seen what most folks would call right wingers discussing how to be more environmentally friendly. Usually forums like this one look like the Arborists forums!


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## woodnomore (Dec 23, 2019)

Fire up the leaf blower and that that pile ripping.


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## Ashful (Dec 23, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Posted the song in the Inglenook forum, if you've got a few minutes.  As with a lot of Zappa, you have to listen to it ten times before you even _*begin*_ to get it.


Infinite and immortal wisdom, as displayed in thoughtful lyrics, like “Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow.”

As to creo and chimney sweepings, I leave it in the firebox and convert it to ash. I never understood why people shovel or vacuum that crap out of their stove after sweeping their flue. Burn it!


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## Woody Stover (Dec 23, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Infinite and immortal wisdom, as displayed in thoughtful lyrics, like “Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow.”


That's the only Zappa you know? That is "strictly from commercial." You're a drummer though..maybe you're tone-deaf.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 23, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Infinite and immortal wisdom, as displayed in thoughtful lyrics, like “Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow.”
> 
> As to creo and chimney sweepings, I leave it in the firebox and convert it to ash. I never understood why people shovel or vacuum that crap out of their stove after sweeping their flue. Burn it!



I burn it whenever possible. Fuel is fuel.


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## MTY (Dec 23, 2019)

I tried to listen to Zappa at the link posted, but could not stand the painful crying my dog was doing.


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## Ashful (Dec 24, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> That's the only Zappa you know? That is "strictly from commercial." You're a drummer though..maybe you're tone-deaf.



Nah... I’ve got all the classics. Went thru a Zappa phase in college, but only occasionally go back to it. He recorded some brilliant stuff, among the many miles of magnetic tape filled with pure crap. Anyone as prolific is Zappa is going to churn out a few good tunes.  My summary:  brilliant, but he needed an editor to do some weeding of the collection, before publishing.


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## fbelec (Dec 25, 2019)

my chimney has 10 feet between the stove and clean out. i don't get to shoveling it out every year but from all the creosote that is brushed down there after a while when i do shovel it out it's like pure soil


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## Woody Stover (Dec 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Anyone as prolific is Zappa is going to churn out a few good tunes.


Like a chimp sitting at a keyboard hitting random keys and producing a doctoral thesis? Not likely, and the chimp is much less like to pound out "a few."


> He recorded some brilliant stuff, among the many miles of magnetic tape filled with pure crap.
> My summary:  brilliant, but he needed an editor to do some weeding of the collection, before publishing.


We who aren't musical geniuses listen through the prism of easily-understood musical laws, innately evident to anyone that can hear relative pitch. Songs constructed from these basics might appeal to most people, including me, and then there are other things I like as well, such as time-signature changes or super-imposed beats (Led Zeppelin "Black Dog" or Zappa "G-spot Tornado") or melodies based on odd-sounding "modes"/scales. The pentatonic mode was one of Zappa's (and my) favorites. Crude but effective.  
I believe that geniuses have an innate comprehension that goes far beyond what's available to most of us mortals. It would be like if we went to Stephen Hawking for an explanation of the underlying concepts of physics. What is obvious to these guys would probably be beyond our ability to comprehend, no matter how long we tried.
Zappa said that he produced music based on what appealed to him, and didn't care too much what anyone else thought of it. If you listen to "Black Page 2," in his description he says he composed it for "the people that liked the melody of "The Black Page," but couldn't approach its 'statistical density' in its original form."  But he made fun of a lot of artists that were only able to compose at a basic level, and were only "...In It For The Money."
Given that he was a musical genius, and most of us are probably not, I don't think we're in a position to deem what he produced "many miles of magnetic tape filled with pure crap."
I saw an "Antiques Road Show" once, where someone brought in Zappa memorabilia. The appraiser had met Zappa, and called him "the most intelligent person I've ever met,"...FWIW.


> I’ve got all the classics. Went thru a Zappa phase in college, but only occasionally go back to it.


Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested in hearing what are your favorite ten (or whatever) Zappa songs..


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## blades (Dec 26, 2019)

still have my Zappa albums from the 60's/70's.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 26, 2019)

blades said:


> still have my Zappa albums from the 60's/70's.


Yeah, I've got some as well. "Absolutely Free," "We're Only In It For the Money," "Hot Rats," "Waka/Jawaka," "The Grand Wazoo,"....all superb.   He didn't let up, either...transcendent stuff on later discs as well. Like anyone else, I like some songs better than others. If I was deserted on a desert island, with only one artist's work, there's no doubt who I'm picking.. 
I've considered getting a USB turntable and ripping some of the old vinyl to digital. As far as Zappa, I may just see what they get for his entire catalogue, in lossless files..


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## Mech e (Dec 26, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> Yeah, I've got some as well. "Absolutely Free," "We're Only In It For the Money," "Hot Rats," "Waka/Jawaka," "The Grand Wazoo,"....all superb.   He didn't let up, either...transcendent stuff on later discs as well. Like anyone else, I like some songs better than others. If I was deserted on a desert island, with only one artist's work, there's no doubt who I'm picking..
> I've considered getting a USB turntable and ripping some of the old vinyl to digital. As far as Zappa, I may just see what they get for his entire catalogue, in lossless files..


Well, just confirms that one man's trash is another man's treasure (-8.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 26, 2019)

Mech e said:


> Well, just confirms that one man's trash is another man's treasure (-8.


Hmmm, I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before, but where...


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