# programmable thermostats



## freebird77 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Was thinking of getting a programmable thermostat, because I just bought a new pellet stove, but have a feeling my daughter will turn up the kero furnace when Im not home, and thats the reason i bought the pellet stove, not to run kero unles realy needed. my question is this, Do the programmable stats have a code or something only I know so to turn the furnace on and off?
I dont want to spend a lot but Im really afraid Ill end up not only with my pellet bill, but kerosene too. Thanks for any help.


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## GVA (Sep 6, 2007)

Why not use the furnace switch at the furnace, to shut it off.


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## keyman512us (Sep 6, 2007)

freebird77 said:
			
		

> Hi Was thinking of getting a programmable thermostat, because I just bought a new pellet stove, but have a feeling my daughter will turn up the kero furnace when Im not home, and thats the reason i bought the pellet stove, not to run kero unles realy needed. my question is this, Do the programmable stats have a code or something only I know so to turn the furnace on and off?
> I dont want to spend a lot but Im really afraid Ill end up not only with my pellet bill, but kerosene too. Thanks for any help.



Fighting the "Battle of the thermostat" is not fun to say the least. Just ask anyone who has ever worked Maintenance in a commercial office building. One person is too hot...the other siting right next to them in their 'cubicle' is too cold.

Perhaps the best way to fight the dilema is to install a "dummy thermostat" (often done in commercial buildings). Get a 'cheapie' $28 programmable thermostat from one of the box stores, mount it to the wall and then put a picture over it. After of course you program it and then "duct tape it shut"...

Would make Red Green proud...lol 

AFAIK... Nobody has made a programmable thermostat that is "password protected" (yet)...

"Calling all inventors" might be the next million $ idea... lol


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## freebird77 (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks guys, but the only thing is, my daughter is 27, and she would probably figure it out pretty quickly. I should of mentioned that.


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## myzamboni (Sep 6, 2007)

If she's 27 you can give her the kero bill


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## MrGriz (Sep 6, 2007)

myzamboni said:
			
		

> If she's 27 you can give her the kero bill



Yep!  We used to have a roommate in college who would run around in shorts all winter and turn up the thermostat constantly (whether anyone was looking or not).  When it came time to pay the bills he mysteriously never had any money.

The answer is to leave your current thermostat in place.  Simply remove it one day when she's not home and disconnect the wires (be sure to tape them up and not let them slip back in the hole when you're done).  Replace the thermostat and let her adjust it to her heart's content.  You'd be amazed what a placebo effect that can have.


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## hh3f (Sep 7, 2007)

buy a locking thermostat cover at your favorite box store. And you will have the key.


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## Mo Heat (Sep 10, 2007)

My thermostat is one of the many items failing at a breakneck pace lately at Mo Heat Manor. So I've been researching programmable thermostats recently, and purchase one on the web last Friday. It still hasn't arrived...

All the ones I've been looking at have the lock-out feature, but they start at about $70 and have LCD "touch screens". I think that may be more than you are looking to pay. I don't know if the non-touch screen models have a lock-out feature.

I agree with the lockable thermostat box as a cheaper solution, unless you really do need a new thermostat. Here's one for $15:

http://www.amazon.com/Locking-Thermostat-Guard/dp/B000LNPD8K


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## mayhem (Sep 11, 2007)

$70 is alot cheaper than one unexpected kerosene bill.  Does anyone really want a lock box on their wall?

I'm kind of stuck wondering though...if she's 27, why is this still an issue?  This is typically pre-driver's license teenager territory.  As mentioned before, give her the bill for the kerosene if she jacks up the stat.


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## Blkbeard (Sep 11, 2007)

Along the lines of programable thermostats has anyone seen one with a programable fan option? all the ones I see are only ON OFF AUTO I would like to see a fan on feature that is programable by time /event My Idea would be that I could program the fan only on at times I am home and keep the thermostat low while away or whatever works best. 
anyone seen this option?


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## titan (Sep 11, 2007)

There are tstats available which can be programmed then "locked out" to any would-be adjusters,often via a dip-switch on the back or sub-base of the tstat.Check Honeywell,White-Rodgers,etc.As for saving money;I know a guy who would remove the fuses from the main box each day before leaving for work-kept his poor wife from turning on the electric heaters!


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## GVA (Sep 11, 2007)

Blkbeard said:
			
		

> Along the lines of programable thermostats has anyone seen one with a programable fan option? all the ones I see are only ON OFF AUTO I would like to see a fan on feature that is programable by time /event My Idea would be that I could program the fan only on at times I am home and keep the thermostat low while away or whatever works best.
> anyone seen this option?


The fan should follow what the t-stat is set at if you have the fan switch to auto.....

Therefore program your setbacks at the times you want and the fan will follow...
What would be the point of running the fan when the furnace is off?


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## Mike Wilson (Sep 12, 2007)

Get her a boyfriend...

-- Mike


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## MrGriz (Sep 12, 2007)

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> Get her a boyfriend...
> 
> -- Mike


Preferably one with a job so he can pay for the heat!


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## Mike Wilson (Sep 12, 2007)

MrGriz said:
			
		

> Mike Wilson said:
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Preferably one with a house so she can move the hell out...  

Remember, the conversation should go something like this... "Okay honey, you're 27 now... time to get married and move out, or just be done with it and come out of the closet."  (Or if you live in Northampton, both.)   %-P 

-- Mike


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## Blkbeard (Sep 13, 2007)

GVA said:
			
		

> Blkbeard said:
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My thinking is that when the furnace is set low and I am using my woodburning appliance I would be able to set the fan to ON in the evening to help circulate heat and off except when the furnace kicked in at other times. But I guess by your response that you have not seen that feature.
Thank you I was just curious.

---
I am as green to burning wood as the wood I have been told not to burn.


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## Mo Heat (Sep 17, 2007)

Blkbeard said:
			
		

> My thinking is that when the furnace is set low and I am using my woodburning appliance I would be able to set the fan to ON in the evening to help circulate heat and off except when the furnace kicked in at other times. But I guess by your response that you have not seen that feature.
> Thank you I was just curious.



The thermostat I just installed does what you seek. You can set the fan to "Circulate" on any (or none) of the programmed time periods and it will run 20 minutes of each hour even if there is no demand for heat or cool. It is a Honeywell. This one (8110U for $95):

http://pexsupply.com/categories.asp?cID=394&brandid;=


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## keyman512us (Sep 18, 2007)

Mike Wilson said:
			
		

> MrGriz said:
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..DOOOHHH! And what would the folks out there in 'Happy Valley'(Northampton) have to say to that one 

BOOM BOOM BOOM (Oought Oh...Who do we know that lives out in 'that neck of the woods')lol 

This one might go beyond a 'Bipolar Moment'....


Kinda funny (as a side note though)... Tonight at the gas station... the car beside us was 'interesting' to say the least. (the folks in the lincoln are from Athol...or as we like to call it RatholE).

A rather 'husky' A-A 'girl' was putting gas in a Lincoln Town Car... When her 'friend' a rather skinny A-A with a rather feminen walk strolls around the side of the car with a bottle of power steering fluid to put into the car. They start arguing somewhat about how much to put in. "Hey save some of that I gotta bring my kid to school in the morning". 

They argue a little more on the subject the dude only put in a little, starts the car and turns the wheel side to side.

I'm laughing and so is my uncle... So my uncle says to them "Don't ya' think it would be cheaper just to fix the power steering than to just p^ss the fluid allover the place???" To which the 'girl' says "Whada I care...It ain't my car!"

...And her friend with the rather light in the loafers' walk just had to get in his $.02...."I may bees a b^tch...But at leasts I know..."

....We couldn't stop laughing even five miles down the road on that one!


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## keyman512us (Sep 18, 2007)

But keep in mind... The Hess gas station on Pearson Blvd in G-Vegas is always good for a laugh anyway. My uncle pointed out the banner on the fence...right after the Town Car.

"I know...But hey...Whada ya want...this is G-Vegas, anything goes!"

(Originally)When I saw the banner (below) I couldn't help it... I walked up to the cashier (Kevin a kid I know) and asked "So I buy one of them throttle drinks??? Whose Mother do I get...Yours???" 

He looked at me a little funny and started laughing. The banner has been up for about three weeks now. Good public image for Coca-Cola...

I know (WEB)this is probably gonna 'light the fuse' (on a certain personal hygine product designed for the female persuasion)...BUT:

Do you think this banner was 'outsourced'...and was perhaps 'Made In China'??? 

"Ingrish So Hahhd to runderstand...Rich retter do  use in dare"
Only in America! "Living in America..."

Can you say "Hooked on Phonics' wurks 4 me???"... ROFLMMFAO!!


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## Stevebass4 (Sep 18, 2007)

no i don't think the banner was outsourced  but rather it shows the intelligence level of some of the people in your area ( banners are made at the local distribution facility )

btw how many languages  do you speak?   I can assure you – their “Ingrish” is much better than your Chinese :sigh:


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## drizler (Sep 22, 2007)

You won't win with one of those locking covers if she is at all resourceful.   GSA used to have those damned things on our outlying Customs Ports and run the heat way down before the guy went home at the end of the day.    While some of us would sit and freeze in the wee hours of the midnight shift  when your body temp drops, the more resourceful among us like me had our ways.   Mine was a tiny long bladed screw driver  that I used to roll the stat to where I wanted it.   Others got pissed and popped it a time or two with the fire extinguisher or tossed a bag of ice on top of the stat.     He never could figure how it got so warm in the building when he came in at 6 am but I for one sure didn't care a bit.  I wasn't gonna freeze my tuckus off all night.   
    Get the dummy stat.    Mine knows where the furnace switch is all too well.        I agree with the bill idea too.    At 27 she  can chip in or put some damned clothes on.     Mine does the same darned thing at 16.   She is just going out the door and howling like hell about not wanting to take my old Z 24 because the AC doesn't work.      I never had ac in a car till I was nearly 50 and still don't 9/10 of the time while she has the magic car that the gas tank never gets empty, the insurance is paid for and I ended up paying for........................................................ It never ends


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## rowerwet (Jan 5, 2009)

my programable stat has 4 periods a day, even if you change the heat level it resets as soon as the next period starts.


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## semipro (Jan 14, 2009)

There are password protected setback thermostats.  One of my guys just installed one at work.  I thnk it cost $60.  I'll find out the make and model and get post again.


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## semipro (Jan 14, 2009)

Freebird 77, 
Check out the Robert Shaw Model 9725i thermostat at Grainger.com or elsewhere. 

Semipro.


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## cgeiger (Jan 14, 2009)

> My thinking is that when the furnace is set low and I am using my woodburning appliance I would be able to set the fan to ON in the evening to help circulate heat and off except when the furnace kicked in at other times. But I guess by your response that you have not seen that feature.
> Thank you I was just curious.
> 
> ---
> I am as green to burning wood as the wood I have been told not to burn.



My thoughts exactly. My returns are both in perfect places to pick up the warm air from my stove except that I haven't found/figured out a way to set the t-stat to switch on but not engage the HP (furnace, etc.) and just blow air until it's reached the setpoint. In effect, I want to be able to use my stove as the heat source instead of the condenser but use the blower to distribute the warm air.  For now, I have to physically go over and set hot/cold/off to "off" and the fan from auto to "on". Is there no thermostat that has "auto" and "fan only" as an option?


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## Mo Heat (Jan 15, 2009)

blueridgelvr said:
			
		

> Is there no thermostat that has "auto" and "fan only" as an option?



My can do auto with fan on continuous or fan on for 20 minutes each hour (called Circulate mode). It's a Honeywell TH8000. Runs around $100 on the web.


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## cgeiger (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks, Mo Heat. I took a look at that one as well. Can you clarify the behavior of the "continuous" part. Do you mean that when the T-stat sense the usual 2 degree dip below setpoint, it only kicks on the blower not the compressor and blower? Or, do you mean you can just set it blow continuously without the compressor until you turn it off again. I liked the 20 minutes circulation each hour - though. Seems like that might be enough of a compliment to the fans I have trying to push air in/out of the stove room...


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## Mo Heat (Jan 15, 2009)

blueridgelvr said:
			
		

> Can you clarify the behavior of the "continuous" part. Do you mean that when the T-stat sense the usual 2 degree dip below setpoint, it only kicks on the blower not the compressor and blower? Or, do you mean you can just set it blow continuously without the compressor until you turn it off again.



Well, this thermostat is a little different than any I've had before. It has no "Swing" adjustment. I was ultra concerned about this when I got it, but it's been no problem at all in the year or two I've had it. I was certain it would be, too. Anyway, that's the long way of saying that with my T-stat there is no 2 degree dip for a demand. It's much more like half a degree, or three quarters, or just off the degree setting it's on... not sure which. Never figured that out.

So... it doesn't do much of anything different with the fan than other thermostats. But it does have that CIRCULATE feature that turns on the fan for 10 minutes, off for 20 minutes, on for 10 minutes, off for 20 minutes, repeat...

When there is a demand for heat or A/C, the fan can't come on by itself without the heat or A/C. The heat or A/C always comes on when the temperature rises or falls above or below the demand setting. If the FAN is set to AUTO, it comes on at this time, too.

The FAN setting is a touch control with three settings, (ON, AUTO, CIRC):

When you set the fan to ON, it's ON, all the time (demand or no demand).
When you set the fan to CIRC, it's on 10 min, off 20, repeat.
When you set the fan to AUTO, it comes on with a demand for heat or A/C.


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## cgeiger (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks for the description, Mo Heat - that about seals it for me. The circulation feature sounds perfect! I had envisioned it running off for 40 and on for 20 as opposed to on 10 off 20, repeat. That should fit my situation closely enough to do what I had envisioned.


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## Gooserider (Jan 16, 2009)

Another option is one that shows up in the banner adds every once in a while, it's a little box from "Bear Mountain Designs" that splices in parallel with the regular thermostat and cycles the fan only automatically.  It can be programmed for a fairly wide range of on-off time ratios, and allows the regular thermostat to do it's thing without interfering.

We had one for a while, and while it worked sort of as advertised, we weren't happy with it, and I ended up selling it to someone else...

Problems - 

1. For some reason, in addition to the fan, the unit also made the Central AC compressor kick on - Bear Mountain said this was a known bug with some electronic thermostats, and that the easiest fix was simply to pull the breaker on the AC unit...

2. It may or may not be related, but a few months after we put the unit in, the blower motor on our relatively new HVAC unit had a bearing failure and started screeching on startup.  (Blower replaced under warranty for a fairly expensive service fee.)

Installation and operation were not a major problem, but the net result was that the house did not appear to get warmer...  The temperature in the living room (where the stove is) dropped, but the rest of the house didn't seem to get any warmer.  What we ended up with was a personal confirmation of the general experience of most posters here, namely that the HVAC system does a lousy job of moving stove heat...  It appears that the HVAC loses more heat going through the ducts than it picks up from the stove.

I'm mentioning this as an option, personally I'm kind of neutral on reccomending it - it did what it said it would, but what it did wasn't very satisfactory for us, but YMMV.

Gooserider


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## cgeiger (Jan 17, 2009)

Interesting feedback, Gooserider. I have to admit that running the fan only even manually doesn't seem to work too well to move the heat unless we've reached a certain exterior temperature to begin with (i.e. 40s). One thought is that my basement ducting is uninsulated (I'm guessing that's pretty common). So the warm air has to pass through cold ducts to get to the registers on the first floor. Being that the ducts are aluminum and reasonably conductive they should act as mini-heatsinks. I'll have to try some more experiments after we've passed the arctic phase here and get back to more seasonal temps for the mid-atlantic. If I can get anything repeatable, I'll be sure to post the results.


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## Gooserider (Jan 17, 2009)

Our basement ducting is also uninsulated, though the basement is nominally in the house heating envelope.  It probably helps us in the summer with the AC, as the basement stays pretty cold, but in the winter I'm sure it doesn't do much for the heating...  I think more to the point is that the air in most stove rooms is not any where near as warm as the heat exchanger in an HVAC unit, so the volume of air that gets moved isn't really enough to make a lot of difference.

Whatever the cause, we if you search back through the threads, you will see that attempts to move stove heat around with the HVAC system is a chronically appearing theme, with VERY few, if any people reporting that it is successful...  

What seems to work the best is to carefully plot out the natural air flows in the house, often using an incense stick or cigarette to check flow direction at both the top and bottom of each door way, and try to use fans to increase those flows - preferably by moving cold air towards the stove, as opposed to trying to push hot air away from it.

Gooserider


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## kbjelka (Jan 17, 2009)

I have a Lux touchscreen thermostat and you can set an access code to lock the touchsceen.  It was a litle pricey but some of the cheaper Lux models may have a similar feature.

http://www.luxproducts.com/thermostats/tx9000ts.htm


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## kbjelka (Jan 17, 2009)

Groundhog said:
			
		

> I have a Lux touchscreen thermostat and you can set an access code to lock the touchsceen.  It was a litle pricey but some of the cheaper Lux models may have a similar feature.
> 
> http://www.luxproducts.com/thermostats/tx9000ts.htm



After looking over the Lux site it appears most of their programmable models have a keyboard lockout feature.  I have been really happy using the TX9000TS with a Quadra-Fire Castile.  Picked it up on eBay as an open box special.  Good luck!


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## Redox (Jan 19, 2009)

Gooserider said:
			
		

> 1. For some reason, in addition to the fan, the unit also made the Central AC compressor kick on - Bear Mountain said this was a known bug with some electronic thermostats, and that the easiest fix was simply to pull the breaker on the AC unit...



Bear Mountain should realize how the typical CAC thermostat is wired:  If the thermostat has a mechanical switch for AUTO/ON, the switch connects Y and G together in the auto position to bring on the fan and the compressor together.  Most electronic thermostats have separate relays for Y and G and won't do this if the "switch" is electronic.  It would be better if they used a SPDT relay with the common contact connected to the fan relay (G wire), NC to the G terminal of the stat, and the NO relay to the R wire or terminal.  The idea is that when activated, the timer breaks the G connection from the thermostat and connects it directly to the R wire.  This will keep the compressor from running unless the thermostat is actually calling for cooling.

Chris


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