# Chimney liners...rigid vs flexible, 304 vs 316, product/supplier



## ash burn (Aug 24, 2011)

investigating a ss liner for my 30 year old tile/brick chimney. it's a straight run, so I'm assuming the rigid would be the best?

Now, 304 vs 316...I burn wood and it's 24/7 from Nov. - Apr. The 316 has a life time warrenty and is transferable, 304...no sure. I guess the question is...how long will the 304 last?

Next, selecting a product/vendor, what questions do I need to ask? How the pipes are seams are made, welded or? connecting the pipe together?


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## Rob From Wisconsin (Aug 24, 2011)

Rigid would also be the most expensive & difficult to install.
An insulated 316 SS Liner would work just fine for you, in my opinion.


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## Todd (Aug 24, 2011)

Rigid would be better becuase it's smooth which drafts better. There is a smooth walled flex liner made by Flex King that would be much easier to install and be one solid piece all the way down. http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/?gclid=CMOSvuiC6KoCFUJrKgodYkVL9g

Another option is a Supaflue, which is a poured in insulated concrete that also strengthens the whole chimney structure. www.supaflu.com


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## ash burn (Aug 24, 2011)

I get allot of stored heat in my present chimney face...it's 4 ft wide x 12 foot tall and gets to 80 + degrees while using the wood stove, this stores lots of heat. Could I just insulate the top 5 foot or so that goes thru the roof? vs the complete chimney?


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## begreen (Aug 24, 2011)

It depends on the chimney, but if the chimney throat is generous I would definitely go for rigid. Back before I took the fireplace out I had installed rigid. The throat was 10x12 I think. There was plenty of room and it went in quite easily in spite of it being a 2 story flue. Came out easily too.


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## leeave96 (Aug 24, 2011)

ash burn said:
			
		

> investigating a ss liner for my 30 year old tile/brick chimney. it's a straight run, so I'm assuming the rigid would be the best?
> 
> Now, 304 vs 316...I burn wood and it's 24/7 from Nov. - Apr. The 316 has a life time warrenty and is transferable, 304...no sure. I guess the question is...how long will the 304 last?
> 
> Next, selecting a product/vendor, what questions do I need to ask? How the pipes are seams are made, welded or? connecting the pipe together?



If you got a straight shot, I would absolutely do rigid.  I had one installed last year with 1/2 insulation wrap (and you WANT the insulation) and it transformed my woodstove/woodburning experience.  Do a search - there are some good posts on rigid liners.  My liner is by Rhino.

I think the real differece between 304 and 316 has to do with what you are going to burn.  If it's wood only - 304 is fine.  Wood/coal - you need 316.  My liner is 304.

Good luck,
Bill


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## ash burn (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks all that replied...

My direction is for a 304L rigid liner with 1/2 inch insulation. I need a 90 dergee to exit the masonary chimney, my question is...do I need to have the clean out cap? Or can I just use my existing steel door that is 5 foot lower then the 90* exit?


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## hwdemers (Aug 25, 2011)

It is always a good idea to extend the liner down to the clean out and put a second tee with cap there. If you do not cap the bottom tee it can allow air infiltration drastically affecting the performance of your liner. Itâ€™s always a good idea to create dead air space in the chimney by sealing the top plate and sealing around the clean out tee


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## hwdemers (Aug 25, 2011)

simpson dura liner is my fav. for rigid


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## begreen (Aug 25, 2011)

ash burn said:
			
		

> Thanks all that replied...
> 
> My direction is for a 304L rigid liner with 1/2 inch insulation. I need a 90 dergee to exit the masonary chimney, my question is...do I need to have the clean out cap? Or can I just use my existing steel door that is 5 foot lower then the 90* exit?



Yes, you need that cap for sure.


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## leeave96 (Aug 25, 2011)

ash burn said:
			
		

> Thanks all that replied...
> 
> My direction is for a 304L rigid liner with 1/2 inch insulation. I need a 90 dergee to exit the masonary chimney, my question is...do I need to have the clean out cap? Or can I just use my existing steel door that is 5 foot lower then the 90* exit?



I have the exact set-up you are describing.  You to use a tee to go up, through the thimble and to attach another piece of rigid pipe down to your cleanout.  Then put a cap on it.  This seals your liner completely from the existing chimney and if you get a flue fire, it can't escape out of the liner to combustibles or be fed with air from the bottom of the liner.  Use your existing cleanout door to access the cap on your liner.

Good luck,
Bill


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## ash burn (Aug 25, 2011)

OK...need the cap, got it!

Now the question is the rigid 304 liner...how to install. Did a google search on videos, found lots of flexible videos, but none on rigid.

I think can assemble a few sections on the ground, then put down the chimney, then add a few more sections?  BTW, my existing flue is 8x13 in size. So, don't think I have allot of room on the 8 inch side for insulation.

Now to insulate. I see a 1/2 blanket wrap, but this needs to be installed on the ground, then lifted in place, can not do this with 25 ft of 6 inch liner? 

Then I found this Heat-Fab Saf - T - Wrap Insulation? also this Everguard insulation mix is a ready mix, vermiculite based insulation material. But don't want to do this all the way to the base? need some guidance here.


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## laynes69 (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm not sure about the insulation for we used vermiculite, but those sections of rigid can get heavy. I installed a 22 gauge rigid liner in our 32' chimney. Dad built a jig that allowed for the liner to be held while I was getting the next section. I would rivet a section onto the next, lower the liner and clamp at the top of the chimney. Rivet, lower, clamp, repeat. I'm sure you could also rivet a couple of sections together before putting them together. I realized quickly that those sections add up in weight, but I wanted a rigid stainless liner. It was everything I could do to lift and adjust the liner for the snout connection once it was together.


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## kingston73 (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm interested to hear your final solution when you find it, as your setup sounds exactly like mine.  I found a rigid kit on woodlanddirect.com, looks like for my purposes it'll be about $750 total.  I priced out the flexking pro stuff and it's going to be about the same price for me.


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## ashburn (Sep 30, 2011)




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## bpm44 (Sep 30, 2011)

The Simpson Duraliner is double wall and pre-insulated at the factory. It's not cheap but it is sweet and easy to install since you don't have to mess with putting on insulation yourself.


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## Hogwildz (Sep 30, 2011)

jeeper said:
			
		

> The Simpson Duraliner is double wall and pre-insulated at the factory. It's not cheap but it is sweet and easy to install since you don't have to mess with putting on insulation yourself.



X2


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## ddddddden (Sep 30, 2011)

I've read that some co's warranty is valid only with pro installation.  You might want to check on that if you are concerned about the warranty and plan to DIY.


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## Woody Stover (Sep 30, 2011)

On my BIL's rigid install, we tied a rope on a piece of 2x4 and dropped it through the first section to hold it. We slipped the next section over the end of the rope and onto the first section and riveted. Then we used the top clamp on the second section and used a 4' piece of 2x4 against the bottom of the clamp and braced against the chimney so we wouldn't have to hold the weight of the liner up while putting the Saf-T Wrap on the first section (being careful not to let the clamp slip off the 2x4.)  :cheese: 
We used a needle-nose pliers to crimp the seam on the wrap. The stove will sit in the fireplace, so now I just have to figure out how to kick the liner down through the damper frame (which I've cut for clearance) with a 30* elbow, then make another 30* turn to go straight into the top of the stove...and have everything match up.  hh: I also have a left-over section of flex liner, which would be a lot easier to match up with the flue exit on the stove...if I can find a rigid-to-flex coupling.


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## zzr7ky (Sep 30, 2011)

You're going to love it!

I went with 6" Rigid and insulated it.  It was an easy install.  I pre-assembeled in manageable sections, lowered with a rope, riveted the next section in, and kept going.  i have a Tee on the end with a cap for cleaning.

One comment.  The insulated rigid is a joy to use.  However, from a cold start, the therma mass of the 'rigid' compared to 'flex'  and the 'smooth' versus 'flex ridges' is probably a toss up.  I just don't see a measureable difference.  They all work well.

Enjoy!


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