# My first barber chair



## OhioBurner© (Apr 11, 2011)

Cutting wood this past weekend... 2-3 more truckloads and I should be good for this coming winter. Then I can get a head start on next year. Anyhow had my first barber chair experience. It was a heavy forward leaner. Any particular method to cut this down without barber chairing? I knew it might happen and was very cautious. Luckily it gave me some snap crackle pop a few seconds before it went so I was able to pull the saw out and stand back. She split up the center and the free half shot back a couple of feet. Wow thats a lot of force. Good part about it... about a third of all the bigger chunks were already split in half for me! Oh and I got about a whole years worth of kindling too! Sorry no pics, both my cameras kicked the bucket this year. It was a nice cherry, probably 18" at the base.


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## smokinj (Apr 11, 2011)

Cut on both sides of your back cut first. (Mark your back cut. Then cut a few inchs into the sides) Still be prepared for it! (barber chair)


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## OhioBurner© (Apr 11, 2011)

So your leaving a strip down the center of the back cut? Like it would make a "T" with the hinge if your were looking down at it from above?


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## smokinj (Apr 11, 2011)

OhioBurnerÂ© said:
			
		

> So your leaving a strip down the center of the back cut? Like it would make a "T" with the hinge if your were looking down at it from above?



No I mark where my back cut is going. Then cut a line off both sides of your back cut. (this takes persure off the tree makes your side cuts the weakest point) Then back cut and face cut take over. MORE LIKE AN "H" With the cross line much high lol

B is the back cut mark it with the chainsaw then do your sides. All 3 cuts are level with each other (Face cut is first)

When you get a barber chair your sides are the strongest point. Your just taking that away from the tree. only takes a couple inchs.
This time of year softwoods should be done like this on every tree.


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## smokinj (Apr 11, 2011)

b= back cut s= side cuts f= face cut. Going to look like a box before you start your final back cut.


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## Cowboy Billy (Apr 11, 2011)

When I cut a strong leaner. I make my face cut. The bore cut behind the face cut make sure my hinge is even then from the bore cut cut to the outside of the tree. That way you have the back of the tree holding it and if it should break free before you get all the way threw your hinge is already set. And is not big enough to barber-chair. 

Billy


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## Intheswamp (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm a rookie and only been cutting downed stuff.  I've read that you can wrap a heavy chain or strap mutliple times around the trunk just above the cut to help prevent barber chairing.  If I ran into a possible BC situation I think I'd wrap the trunk and use the side cuts, too.  I'm not up to trying a plunge cut yet, though I'm feeling like I'm understanding tension/compression in the woods a bit better along with getting some experience with reactive forces.

Jay, you mentioned that side cutting should be used on softwoods during this time of the year. Is this because of the sap rising making the cabium layer and sapwood softer?  Thanks for that tip, too, as I'll probably be cutting a little pine before long.

Ed


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## smokinj (Apr 11, 2011)

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> I'm a rookie and only been cutting downed stuff.  I've read that you can wrap a heavy chain or strap mutliple times around the trunk just above the cut to help prevent barber chairing.  If I ran into a possible BC situation I think I'd wrap the trunk and use the side cuts, too.  I'm not up to trying a plunge cut yet, though I'm feeling like I'm understanding tension/compression in the woods a bit better along with getting some experience with reactive forces.
> 
> Jay, you mentioned that side cutting should be used on softwoods during this time of the year. Is this because of the sap rising making the cabium layer and sapwood softer?  Thanks for that tip, too, as I'll probably be cutting a little pine before long.
> 
> Ed



yes


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## smokinj (Apr 11, 2011)

[quote author="Intheswamp" date="1302560546"]I'm a rookie and only been cutting downed stuff. I've read that you can wrap a heavy chain or strap mutliple times around the trunk just above the cut to help prevent barber chairing. If I ran into a possible BC situation I think I'd wrap the trunk and use the side cuts, too. I'm not up to trying a plunge cut yet, though I'm feeling like I'm understanding tension/compression in the woods a bit better along with getting some experience with reactive forces.






That would be an extreme measure there and a very large tree. At that point probally let the crain have it.


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 12, 2011)

Here you go, Ligettfa found this image when this topic came up before.  Here is a clear simple image.  Also a link to alot of other good stuff.
http://www.autonopedia.org/garden_and_farm/Trees_And_Woodland/Tree-felling_safety.html


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## Flavo (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks for the link. That stuff is going to be really helpful to me at some point. The only learning I get to do w/ saw safety is all on the internet. I know it's not an ideal way to learn but it seems to be my only option.


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## smokinj (Apr 12, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> Here you go, Ligettfa found this image when this topic came up before. Here is a clear simple image. Also a link to alot of other good stuff.
> http://www.autonopedia.org/garden_and_farm/Trees_And_Woodland/Tree-felling_safety.html



If you think that tree could barber chair to start with that cutting is way to aggressive. Your only looking to control the break dont over power it. Just my experience. Those cuts are much harder to line up level wise. (Cant see my self hanging in the pocket with it)


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## RNLA (Apr 13, 2011)

I don't know how to quote but cowboybilly has the technique nailed!


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## OhioBurner© (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info fellas. Like Flavo, most of my training is coming from the net... and books... I do have "To Fell a Tree by Jeff Jepson" and its been a great resource. I didnt have it with me though, I got it out yesterday and it did address heavy forward leaners with a technique like what cowboybilly described, make the face cut then bore cut behind it and cut to the hinge then basically cut the back cut in reverse, starting from the hinge going to the back.


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## smokinj (Apr 13, 2011)

OhioBurnerÂ© said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the great info fellas. Like Flavo, most of my training is coming from the net... and books... I do have "To Fell a Tree by Jeff Jepson" and its been a great resource. I didnt have it with me though, I got it out yesterday and it did address heavy forward leaners with a technique like what cowboybilly described, make the face cut then bore cut behind it and cut to the hinge then basically cut the back cut in reverse, starting from the hinge going to the back.



Bore or plunge cuts can be very difficult. Keep in mind that "you are the man" in the pocket....If you are not really good at it ,well standing in the line of fire gets a little weird! I would much rather let the tree barber chair and be out of the way, but if your that good and no theres dought Billy is. GET YOUR BUTT TO THE SIDE OF THE TREE! with the longest bar you have.


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## Backwoods Savage (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm with you there Jay. Get to the side of the tree, not behind it.


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## chvymn99 (Apr 13, 2011)

Interestimg read.  But why do they call it a Barber Chair?


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## smokinj (Apr 13, 2011)

chvymn99 said:
			
		

> Interestimg read.  But why do they call it a Barber Chair?



Its where the tree breaks in the middle of the trunk. It can scar the crap out of you from the sound alone. This one is very small and I would not even worry about on this size.


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 13, 2011)

They call it a barber chair because the trunk can look like a chair when it falls because you never really finished cutting it and it has a back to it.


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## Backwoods Savage (Apr 13, 2011)

We have done some of that on purpose. Usually we do it with small trees and do it for the deer. They love to lay under those trees and if they go to the ground then the deer like to lay right next to the log. Just one more way of helping the deer and also keeping them on your place.


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 14, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> We have done some of that on purpose. Usually we do it with small trees and do it for the deer. They love to lay under those trees and if they go to the ground then the deer like to lay right next to the log. Just one more way of helping the deer and also keeping them on your place.



You got that right Dennis, I cut a poplar down this year that was in the way for a trail I was putting in.  I was not really interested in the wood but the deer sure liked it.  When I would go for a walk or ride the Quad they were often there.  The tree already had leaves on it and it gave them nice cover.


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## richg (Apr 14, 2011)

Cowboy Billy said:
			
		

> When I cut a strong leaner. I make my face cut. The bore cut behind the face cut make sure my hinge is even then from the bore cut cut to the outside of the tree. That way you have the back of the tree holding it and if it should break free before you get all the way threw your hinge is already set. And is not big enough to barber-chair.
> 
> Billy



On the money. If the tree is too small to do a bore cut, you can wrap it with a chain just above your cuts.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 14, 2011)

chvymn99 said:
			
		

> Interestimg read.  But why do they call it a Barber Chair?


Maybe because there have been many "close shaves."  :lol:


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## smokinj (Apr 14, 2011)

Woody Stover said:
			
		

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lol Your right. Nothing like a black locust or hickory cracking from a barber chair. I in no way want to be anywhere around the back side of it. (the crack alone will freeze you for a second)


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## Thistle (Apr 14, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Its scary stuff. Seen a couple that sounded almost like a shotgun blast,made me jump back about 10 ft lol.


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## smokinj (Apr 14, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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lol If you are jumping in the right direction its all GOOD. (12 gauge magium load)


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## Thistle (Apr 14, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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lol right on.I'm still here today with all my fingers,toes etc because of dedication to safety & not taking any chances.If something dont feel 'right',I wont proceed.Even in the best conditions,things can change in a split-second.


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## CTYank (Apr 14, 2011)

RNLA said:
			
		

> I don't know how to quote but cowboybilly has the technique nailed!



Yes. And, I'm told from students, most forestry instructors now advise and teach the "boring cut" method of felling. (You'll find lots of examples on YouTube, even.) And lots of USFS instructional material.

Make whatever face cut (notch) you wish.
Instead of making the back (felling) cut from the outside toward the face cut, bore in with the tip to, in effect, start the felling cut from the end nearest the notch. Leave a couple of inches of hinge. Continue the felling cut from the inside toward the outer edge. On nearing/hitting that edge, the tree will release.

This method is highly recommended in the case of forward leaners.

The side-cutting thing was advocated back in the '70s.


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## smokinj (Apr 14, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

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Yep I agree. If a professor is teaching a bore cut and not you tube, or many on here if you could learn from them first hand. Youtube not where you want to bet your life on. Lee or Billy would be perfect. IF I COULD GET LEE OUT HERE! (or get up to Billys forest) lol The 70's style still works and safer if your not a pro bore cutter.


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## mainstation (Apr 14, 2011)

+1 to the Bore/Plunge cut technique
+1 to being safe though and knowing when to get outta the pocket as Jay says.

Remember, the bore cut has you plunging the tip of your saw, which should be at almost full throttle, into the tree--nose sprocket first. This is not for the faint of heart or rookies.  Practice on logs already down.  It is a very handy felling cut though, especially if your heartwood is punky.



First thing for any fell is cut yourself an escape trail/route outta there.


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## smokinj (Apr 15, 2011)

Here a good question what size bar and tree's are the bore cut guys using. I am normally 30-60 inch tree felling with a 460 and 28 inch bar. I think the pro bore guys must be around 20 inch bars and much smaller tree's. The only time I will bore it is to see if its hollow and the bar is vertical.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Apr 15, 2011)

What's "the pocket"?


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 15, 2011)

I think it is good practice to always be cutting from the side of the tree (you almost have to be anyway).  I am always on one side or the other but never really standing directly behind it.  Also sound is your friend, when you start hearing cracking it is good practice to get out of the way and watch, exit at an angle, not behind the tree.  Another good lesson is never cut the whole way through a tree, you should always leave an inch or two of wood attached, that is what controls the direction of the fall.  I have never tried a bore cut myself.  Jay you are dealing with some awful big trees if you are up to 60 inches.  Cutting something that big is almost a sin.  LOL


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## smokinj (Apr 15, 2011)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> What's "the pocket"?



lol Right next too the the tree, But if everything right a safe place to be. I very rarely move or even stop the trigger other than feathering a little all the way down. This puts the log out in front of the stump with out a roll or twist. Just seems like a pocket to me. (unless its hollow and then I will let the winch handle it)


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## smokinj (Apr 15, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> I think it is good practice to always be cutting from the side of the tree (you almost have to be anyway).  I am always on one side or the other but never really standing directly behind it.  Also sound is your friend, when you start hearing cracking it is good practice to get out of the way and watch, exit at an angle, not behind the tree.  Another good lesson is never cut the whole way through a tree, you should always leave an inch or two of wood attached, that is what controls the direction of the fall.  I have never tried a bore cut myself.  Jay you are dealing with some awful big trees if you are up to 60 inches.  Cutting something that big is almost a sin.  LOL



Not around here there old with lots of damage...Trees that big are silvers not worth a dam(firewood only)! We have big pockets of old growth. Lots of home owners have old growth walnuts most are damged to bad but I will get some pic's in the A.m. Of a slab we just finnish it fricken AWESOME!


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## OhioBurner© (Apr 15, 2011)

Wow 60"... I know our woods was mostly logged I think in the 80's. Most of the bigger trees are in the 20" range.


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## smokinj (Apr 15, 2011)

OhioBurnerÂ© said:
			
		

> Wow 60"... I know our woods was mostly logged I think in the 80's. Most of the bigger trees are in the 20" range.



Thats what I find when in the woods for the most part. The big ones are in the yards with lots of stuff to crush. I will get some good pic's of two tulips coming up there in the 50 inch range (think it will be my new barn). There in a back yard. Garage behind them fence line on the side shed stright ahead and house on the other side. Going to 45 degree it towards the house. Its going to be very nerve racking to say the least.


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## Thistle (Apr 15, 2011)

Henry Stamper,family patriarch of Oregon independent logging family played by Henry Fonda in the 1971 movie classic Sometimes A Great Notion :
 "Its gonna be a real ball-breaker,but I got an idea we can whup it!"

Oldest son Hank,played by Paul Newman: "OK Henry....you get 'em started,the rest we'll  just stomp 'em down! ;-)"   :coolgrin:


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 16, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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My land has never been logged and I have several monsters on it, one that is down (big Oak) that I have to finish cutting this year.  But it is defineatly rare to be cutting a 60 inch one, especially a leaner (something that heavy would probably have fallen over).  I do have one ash tree that has five trunks that must be 8 or 10 feet at the base.  If that one dies I do not think I will be able to cut the trunk.

The image I have attached is probably the tallest and nicest red Oak I have.  I have had a few forest rangers look at it and they were quite impressed.  A sawmill owner told me it would take special saws to cut, but I will never cut it down.


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## smokinj (Apr 16, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

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As long as termites dont start in on it. It is a resource but a lot of people will let big tree's go to waste thinking thats the right thing to do. Its a fine line. Buddy has a 53 inch oak termites are in it with lots of lead as well. It will get wasted.


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## golfandwoodnut (Apr 16, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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I agree with certain trees.  Cherry trees have a limited life and just start losing branches when they get too big.  Oak trees though can live for centuries.  I do have dozens that are dead from when the gypsy moths came through about 20 years ago.


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## smokinj (Apr 16, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

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Agree. This one I am talking about use to be a back stop for fire arms. This let the termites in probally still live another 5-20+ years who know but the wood will be worthless and something else could be growing it the spot.


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## WOODBUTCHER (Apr 19, 2011)

I use this method that was taught to me from someone with 20+ years experience.
Set your notch 1/3 of trunk use your sight line on your saw (this really helps), plunge cut, set hinge no less than 1 inch, cut 1/2 hold wood and set wedge, cut other hold wood and set wedge.....pound away.
I just practiced on a medium sized cherry that had a 4' lean where I did'nt want it to go. But with this method it laid down right where I wanted it. All my cutt'in is done from the sides.

WoodButcher


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## chvymn99 (Apr 19, 2011)

I was watching Ax Men lastnight and they where talking about the Barber chair and that loud "crackle" that happens.  Then they animated it, pretty impressive, if I say so myself.  But I was able to follow after learning it from here.  Thanks.


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