# When is it "worth it" to buy log length wood?



## sksmass (Jan 25, 2010)

I have been toying with the idea of getting a load of log length wood and processing it myself.  But I'm unsure about the economics of it all.  In my area a cord of split and "seasoned" mixed hardwood is $180.  How much cheaper would a cord of log length have to be to make it worth it?  

Is there a rule of thumb about the price of log length relative to split?  Should it be 50% the price of split?  75%?


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## Jfk4th (Jan 25, 2010)

Around Western New York usually if you get logs it will come out to be around 40 per face cord (or 120 per full cord).  If I didn't live in such a ritzy area...man I gotta move someday....I would get a load of logs.  A lot cheaper and then you can come the size you want for you stove, know when it is seasoned, and get some exercise to boot 
So in my area with logs you will save about 50%, maybe a little more per full cord.  If you are 24/7 wood burner, this is the only way to go IMHO


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## bogydave (Jan 25, 2010)

I'd think 1/2 the price. But you have to be prepared to take a big load of logs with most outfits.
Normal here for log length loads is 10 cords.


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## fire_man (Jan 25, 2010)

I just got a grapple load for about $100/chord of mixed hardwood logs. The delivery guy told me this wood could not be put through a "processor" to split. I think that means it had too many crooked pieces, and some logs with possible nails and spikes. Split and "seasoned" wood around here is around $300/chord.


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## peterc38 (Jan 25, 2010)

fire_man said:
			
		

> I just got a grapple load for about $100/chord of mixed hardwood logs. The delivery guy told me this wood could not be put through a "processor" to split. I think that means it had too many crooked pieces, and some logs with possible nails and spikes. Split and "seasoned" wood around here is around $300/chord.



Geez, nails and spikes wouldn't be any easier on chainsaws than they would on a processor I would imagine.

When I buy grapple loads, the logs are  clean and relatively straight. Cost is about $90 to $100 per cord.


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## Risser09 (Jan 25, 2010)

I got really lucky and found a guy who has a tree service and is delivering to my property...he said he would charge me $25 per ton which usually equates to $25 for 3/4 of a cord. So he's been doing it as he takes trees down and finally asked for $600. I have a generous 8 cords processed and stacked already and I'm not even 1/3 of the way through the total amount of wood he's delivered. I am estimating $25 or less per cord. He is halting his deliver until I process through more of the wood.

Pros: Cheap wood delivered to my processing site, excellent wood species (all types of oak, maple, cherry, ash, etc.)

Cons: Not completely straight wood, some logs may be too big for my 20" bar


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## iceman (Jan 25, 2010)

what part of western mass ae you in?
you can get prices that would range from 60-100 a cord , most usually get between 5-650 for a truckload and depending on how they load it really affects that price to...
many tree guys will cut it to length for you for around 75 -125 a cord if the job is close to you... but this time of year you can also get it 140-170 c/s/d


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## maplewood (Jan 25, 2010)

Wood prices sure vary from region to region.  I'm paying $130 Canadian per cord for tree length wood.  Cut & split stuff is going for $220-260.
If you have processed your own wood before, you'll appreciate the work involved - cutting, moving, splitting, moving, stacking, moving, etc.  There's a lot of discussions on "how many times do you handle your firewood".
Don't forget that if you buy in length (8' to tree length), your volume will probably shrink as you cut it.   There's a lot more air between twisted trunks than in split stacks.  I usually buy 10-12 cords per truck load, and I can end up with 85-100% of that volume afterwards.  (Normally I'd expect to end up with about 90% of my purchased volume, but I have a couple of good suppliers that put a some extra trees on my delivery, so I end up with about 100%.) 
Personally, I can't afford to buy processed wood, and I still enjoy doing it myself.  I'm even splitting with a maul.
Happy burning.


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## verne (Jan 25, 2010)

For the last three years I have paid between $90-$100 a cord for log length. 7-8 cord. I buy the same quantity cut ,split ,delivered for $150 a cord . after I buy oil and gas for the saw and splitter not to mention my back I am leaning towards just buying it processed.I guess it really depends on how much your time is worth and if you have the extra money.I will still get to enjoy re splitting some and stacking


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## Wood Duck (Jan 25, 2010)

Assuming you have the tools, storage space, and ability to process the wood, I think it is worth it as long as you save at least a few hundred bucks and enjoy the work. you have to save some money on the deal or you'd wonder why you're doing the work, even though you may enjoy doing it. If you don't have the tools, but have space and the physical abilities, then I'd say it is worth it if the price of logs plus tools is comparable to the price of c/s/s firewood. Then you can enjoy the work and end up with new tools for the same price as buying the wood. Although I enjoy processing wood as much as anyone, i think part of the reason I like to do it is that I feel I am saving money, so price of the logs does matter.

I have heard of log length as cheap as $50 per cord here in central PA, but haven't actually bought any myself, so I can't verify. Cut, split, delivered and 'seasoned' firewood wells for about $140 per cord on Craigslist here. I think with those prices, it would be worth buying logs here instead of buying c/s/s firewood.


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## sksmass (Jan 25, 2010)

Thanks for the info guys.  Arfter all this, I am leaning towards just buying c/s/d.  I think if my wife came home one day to find 8-10 cords worth of logs dumped in our front yard she would freak out.  My driveway would look like a sawmill all summer.  Plus, I've got little kids so every hour spent bucking and splitting is an hour NOT spent with them.  I think I'll just satisfy my chainsaw and maul needs with the occasional trees I take down on my property and scrounge from around town.


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## billb3 (Jan 25, 2010)

Watching you cut and split wood alllweekend from the window could be cheap entertainment for them, though. 
Especially if you drop things on your feet a lot.

Cutting and splitting in the heat of Summer is not fun.
I'd rather be out in the cold of Winter.


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## Wood Duck (Jan 25, 2010)

processing wood with little kids around doesn't sound like much fun - too much concern that they'll get hurt, and they probably want you to play with them. Wait a few years, and they'll know how to stay out of the way and be better at entertaining themselves, then you can buy logs. A half-way alternative might be to buy rounds instead of split wood. you can have a stack of rounds, a stack of splits, and only need a small space nearby to split. it is good excercise and you can pick up a maul and split a few whenever you get a chance.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jan 25, 2010)

sksmass said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info guys.  Arfter all this, I am leaning towards just buying c/s/d.  I think if my wife came home one day to find 8-10 cords worth of logs dumped in our front yard she would freak out.  My driveway would look like a sawmill all summer.  Plus, I've got little kids so every hour spent bucking and splitting is an hour NOT spent with them.  I think I'll just satisfy my chainsaw and maul needs with the occasional trees I take down on my property and scrounge from around town.



I am in the same exact position that you are in (lots of little kids) and debated the log length issue last year.
I can get green cut/split delivered for $175/cord, so this year I asked my wood guy if there was any discount if I took 3 cords instead of the usual 2, and he knocked a few bucks off. Might be something to check into if you wood guy can deliver multiple cords.


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## John the Painter (Jan 25, 2010)

maplewood said:
			
		

> Wood prices sure vary from region to region.  I'm paying $130 Canadian per cord for tree length wood.  Cut & split stuff is going for $220-260.
> If you have processed your own wood before, you'll appreciate the work involved - cutting, moving, splitting, moving, stacking, moving, etc.  There's a lot of discussions on "how many times do you handle your firewood".
> Don't forget that if you buy in length (8' to tree length), your volume will probably shrink as you cut it.   There's a lot more air between twisted trunks than in split stacks.  I usually buy 10-12 cords per truck load, and I can end up with 85-100% of that volume afterwards.  (Normally I'd expect to end up with about 90% of my purchased volume, but I have a couple of good suppliers that put a some extra trees on my delivery, so I end up with about 100%.)
> Personally, I can't afford to buy processed wood, and I still enjoy doing it myself.  I'm even splitting with a maul.
> Happy burning.


Over here on PEI log length runs about $100 - $120 and c/s/d goes for $160 - $200.Maybe it would be cheaper for you to get it over here. ;-)


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## Bigg_Redd (Jan 25, 2010)

sksmass said:
			
		

> I have been toying with the idea of getting a load of log length wood and processing it myself.  But I'm unsure about the economics of it all.  In my area a cord of split and "seasoned" mixed hardwood is $180.  How much cheaper would a cord of log length have to be to make it worth it?
> 
> Is there a rule of thumb about the price of log length relative to split?  Should it be 50% the price of split?  75%?



I dunno about all that but I'd probably pay $50 per cord for Doug Fir (way better than your eastern "hardwoods") in log form. . . maybe.


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## fire_man (Jan 25, 2010)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

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Let's see, Douglas fir comes in at 21.4 Million BTU/chord, Hickory comes in at 30 Million, White Oak at 26.5 so what am I missing?? Oh yea Douglas Fir is easier to carry to the stove 'cause its lighter! :snake:


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## PapaDave (Jan 26, 2010)

C/S/D not dry oak around here runs about 165-180/cord. I get a 20 cord load dropped for $75/cord, then process myself. My guy really doesn't like bringing anything less than 20, but will bring 10 for a premium. I didn't ask what that would be.
After gas, oil, etc., I figure it runs me between $80-85/cord. I use about 2/3 cord average during the winter. I'll take the time to process my own to heat my house for $60/month. That's worth it to ME. YMMV
My kids are grown and long gone though, and I'm retired. In that sense, easier for me.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Jan 26, 2010)

fire_man said:
			
		

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I was gunna say . . .
 :lol:  :lol:


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## sksmass (Jan 26, 2010)

I am also adding in to the economic equation the risk to life and limb.  As someone who doesn't make his living wielding a chainsaw, I recognize that every time I operate what is probably the single most dangerous machine you can buy "over the counter", I am taking some non-zero risk.  I had an uncle who was sawing and experienced  a kickback and the blade hit him right in the face.   It didn't kill him, but he lived the rest of his days with a wicked scar.  

So, I think my equation looks something like this:  to the cost of log length timber I add:
The value of my time (<- this is probably the biggest item)
The cost of consumables like chain oil and gasoline
The cost of depreciating capital expenses like the saw itself
The risk premium associated with the non-zero possibility of serious injury or death
The cost of being asked "when are you going to get rid of all that wood cluttering up our yard" by my wife

If the number is less than the cost of c/s/d than I should buy log length, if it is more, than I should buy c/s/d.

For me, at this time of my life, the sum of all those items more than covers the "spread" between cheaper log length wood and the price of c/s/d wood.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 26, 2010)

I'd say that if you're not thoroughly excited about the prospect of having a load of logs dumped in your yard, then you probably shouldn't do it.

Personally, I can't think of many things that would be more satisfying or fun.


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## fire_man (Jan 26, 2010)

sksmass said:
			
		

> I am also adding in to the economic equation the risk to life and limb.  As someone who doesn't make his living wielding a chainsaw, I recognize that every time I operate what is probably the single most dangerous machine you can buy "over the counter", I am taking some non-zero risk.  I had an uncle who was sawing and experienced  a kickback and the blade hit him right in the face.   It didn't kill him, but he lived the rest of his days with a wicked scar.
> 
> So, I think my equation looks something like this:  to the cost of log length timber I add:
> The value of my time (<- this is probably the biggest item)
> ...



You could run this equation every time you jump in your car and get on the highway just to go out to dinner (especially with the drivers around here!). You really have to balance your risks with your desire just to live your life and have sensible fun. I think cutting up logs, splitting,stacking, etc. actually adds to my health because its "my time" and it gives me an excuse to be outside and use tools I enjoy - and the feeling of accomplishment - I could go on.....But if you don't enjoy it then I agree with your summary.


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## Risser09 (Jan 26, 2010)

I have spent most of my life fixing things, making sure stuff works, etc. so any chance I have to destroy a log of wood with heavy machinery makes for a lot of fun. The fact that it is great exercise (not running on a treadmill or lifting weights pointlessly) makes it even more worthwhile.


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## iceman (Jan 26, 2010)

here ya go you can choose!!


http://westernmass.craigslist.org/grd/1570858912.html
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/for/1556840006.html
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/grd/1557209153.html


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## jjh3d (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm new to burning this year, and for me splitting the wood is all the fun and great exercise.  I couldn't imagine buying it all split already.  I suggest you go with the person above who suggested buying rounds.  This way you get to split (fun and exercise) without the risk of the chain saw and other problems of getting logs (thoroughly noted above).


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## Bigg_Redd (Jan 26, 2010)

fire_man said:
			
		

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Number of westerners on this board crying like a little baby about Douglas Fir = 0

Number of eastern crybabies crybabying about this or that "hardwood" that's been cribbed up for 2 years and still ain't dry = most of the threads on this board


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## Bigg_Redd (Jan 26, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

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Was gunna say what?  "My oak isn't dry!  Whaaaaaaa! I split it 10 years ago! Whaaaa. . ."  Something like that?  Relax, you're not alone.


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## fire_man (Jan 27, 2010)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

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Someone's got a bad case of Oak-envy. You get it when you rub against Pines. I hear it itches like crazy.


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## freddy (Jan 29, 2010)

To heck with what the charts say. I've burned hickory, locust, apple and oak hardwoods here in the Northwest and I seriously don't find much better heat output than doug fir. Sure the coals last longer but they have little heat output. I only throw the hardwoods in at bed time and restart with fir in the morning. Can't restart with the hardwoods. What the heck do you guys use for kindling? You can't even split the stuff that small.


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 29, 2010)

freddy said:
			
		

> Can't restart with the hardwoods. What the heck do you guys use for kindling? You can't even split the stuff that small.



Only use kindling once a year or so but pine or spruce usually goes on the bottom of every reload.


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## PapaDave (Jan 29, 2010)

Can't restart with hardwoods? Huh, I do it every day. Fire burns down, I add a split or 2 and off she goes. DRY hardwood helps, and no, it's not been drying for 3 or more years. 1.5 or so.


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## Spikem (Jan 30, 2010)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> I'd say that if you're not thoroughly excited about the prospect of having a load of logs dumped in your yard, then you probably shouldn't do it.
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> *Personally, I can't think of many things that would be more satisfying or fun.*



I'm very much in agreement with both of these comments.


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## LLigetfa (Jan 30, 2010)

freddy said:
			
		

> What the heck do you guys use for kindling? You can't even split the stuff that small.


I use only hardwood for kin'lin.  Split 20 inch long pieces down to about the diameter of my thumb with no problem.


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