# is 3 month old wood dried 3 days in kiln "seasoned"?



## elasticman (Nov 30, 2018)

just bought 2 cords from a guy who advertised it as "seasoned" and paid seasoned rates. I asked "is it dry"? The kid driving the truck told me it had been cut 3 months ago and put in a kiln for 2 or 3 days to dry it out.  Just started a fire and the moisture is bubbling out the end of the logs.

Tried to facebook message the dude and he is not responding.

Did I get hosed?


----------



## TheAardvark (Nov 30, 2018)

You got hosed.  Luckily I havent needed to buy wood the past couple years, but when I did, I always checked a few pieces with my moisture meter before paying.


----------



## Zack R (Nov 30, 2018)

Moisture meter readings?? Maybe the forum should have a sticky on "how to buy firewood" so others can avoid this fate. 

Sorry man you got hosed.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Nov 30, 2018)

Funny this comes up.  Last year there was a logging operation next to me done by a Mennonite outfit where by the stuff they cut for firewood was taken to a "portable" tent like structure which I think was a kiln down the road.  Less than a year old and they are selling firewood from there.  Sure water/sap would bubble out like above.  Maybe this is the "thing" now?  Kevin


----------



## elasticman (Nov 30, 2018)

just ordered a moisture meter on Amazon. Now I have to try and track this guy down and get a refund...


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> just bought 2 cords from a guy who advertised it as "seasoned" and paid seasoned rates. I asked "is it dry"? The kid driving the truck told me it had been cut 3 months ago and put in a kiln for 2 or 3 days to dry it out.  Just started a fire and the moisture is bubbling out the end of the logs.
> 
> Tried to facebook message the dude and he is not responding.
> 
> Did I get hosed?



Dude.. you just got beat.. you dont take anyone's word for it.. a 20 doller moisture meter would have saved you  ton of headache.. you have wet unseasoned wood at a premium price..


----------



## elasticman (Nov 30, 2018)

what should the moisture meter read for "seasoned" wood?


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> what should the moisture meter read for "seasoned" wood?


Under 20% 12-16 range is best


----------



## begreen (Nov 30, 2018)

What has happened is that the wood has dried on the outside but not on the inside. To test moisture bring a couple thick splits indoors and let them come up to room temp. Then split them in half and test right away on the freshly exposed face on wood. Push the pins deep into the wood to get a good reading. If it is >20% it's not fully seasoned. If it's >25% it's too wet to burn.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> what should the moisture meter read for "seasoned" wood?



I would except nothing higher than 20%mc on a fresh split.. that you split.. grab a pice split it... put mm on fresh split side and take reading.. do not read the outside of split or the end of a split.. also check the wood and ask questions. Is it all harwoods or mixed check to see how much is oak, or the higher BTU wood


----------



## therealdbeau (Nov 30, 2018)

But how much did you pay, If that's not too much to ask. 

I just had some "seasoned" wood delivered yesterday. They said it was sitting around split for a year or so but just uncovered in piles. Kind of junky looking stuff too. I tested a few pieces and they all seemed to be in the high 20's for moisture content. I was pretty pissed because I already have some wood but it isn't dry enough so my purpose here was to buy ready to burn wood. I think what I got was the bottom of the pile.

Anyway, I argued with the guy for a bit and gave him $150/cord. Not a terrible deal in the end i think.


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> just bought 2 cords from a guy who advertised it as "seasoned" and paid seasoned rates. I asked "is it dry"? The kid driving the truck told me it had been cut 3 months ago and put in a kiln for 2 or 3 days to dry it out.  Just started a fire and the moisture is bubbling out the end of the logs.
> 
> Tried to facebook message the dude and he is not responding.
> 
> Did I get hosed?




yep. youre out 2 cords for the year. happened to me recently. the guy picked a couple logs out of his truck for me to test. averaged 17-20%. once he left i tested other pieces and they were all 30 and above. i dont know how these people legally stay in business. the only way to really do it is to buy wood and know it wont be ready till next year.

im having a load delivered in a few hours. they said it was stacked since 2016 and covered. we'll find out. i have my meter with me. if the pieces that I CHOOSE arent 20 or under im telling them to leave


----------



## weatherguy (Nov 30, 2018)

If it really was in a kiln that long it would be dry, only way to test it for sure is with a moisture meter.


----------



## elasticman (Nov 30, 2018)

therealdbeau said:


> But how much did you pay, If that's not too much to ask.
> 
> I just had some "seasoned" wood delivered yesterday. They said it was sitting around split for a year or so but just uncovered in piles. Kind of junky looking stuff too. I tested a few pieces and they all seemed to be in the high 20's for moisture content. I was pretty pissed because I already have some wood but it isn't dry enough so my purpose here was to buy ready to burn wood. I think what I got was the bottom of the pile.
> 
> Anyway, I argued with the guy for a bit and gave him $150/cord. Not a terrible deal in the end i think.



$250 a cord is the going rate in central MA


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> yep. youre out 2 cords for the year. happened to me recently. the guy picked a couple logs out of his truck for me to test. averaged 17-20%. once he left i tested other pieces and they were all 30 and above. i dont know how these people legally stay in business. the only way to really do it is to buy wood and know it wont be ready till next year.
> 
> im having a load delivered in a few hours. they said it was stacked since 2016 and covered. we'll find out. i have my meter with me. if the pieces that I CHOOSE arent 20 or under im telling them to leave




just had my wood delivered. massive load of wood but looks pretty good. when i pulled out the moisture meter the guy got mad and started spewing off how come i dont believe him. i told him im measuring the wood or its no deal. he keeps going off about how NO one ever questioned him. so i pulled out my splitter haha to check. runs at 20%. should be good enough for the winter.

next year... im processing ALL my wood from my own trees. no more dealing with people who want $1000 but then complain when you want to check to be sure youre getting what you paid for.


----------



## therealdbeau (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> $250 a cord is the going rate in central MA



Down here in VA I'm getting quotes as high as $390 a cord for "seasoned" not kiln dried. Half the places I called said they were out of wood all together.

Some knucklehead started a rumor that this is going to be a bad winter so I think everyone is freaking out a bit buying up all the wood.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> just had my wood delivered. massive load of wood but looks pretty good. when i pulled out the moisture meter the guy got mad and started spewing off how come i dont believe him. i told him im measuring the wood or its no deal. he keeps going off about how NO one ever questioned him. so i pulled out my splitter haha to check. runs at 20%. should be good enough for the winter.
> 
> next year... im processing ALL my wood from my own trees. no more dealing with people who want $1000 but then complain when you want to check to be sure youre getting what you paid for.



Are you saying that your going to burn your own wood next yeat


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Are you saying that your going to burn your own wood next yeat



i already started cutting wood several months ago and will continue to add throughout the entire winter. ill burn this next year as long as the moisture is under 20%. why?


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

therealdbeau said:


> Down here in VA I'm getting quotes as high as $390 a cord for "seasoned" not kiln dried. Half the places I called said they were out of wood all together.
> 
> Some knucklehead started a rumor that this is going to be a bad winter so I think everyone is freaking out a bit buying up all the wood.



$390 what a ripoff. these people know how to scam people out of their money very well.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> i already started cutting wood several months ago and will continue to add throughout the entire winter. ill burn this next year as long as the moisture is under 20%. why?



The depending on the type of wood, the wood you CSS in the spring of 18 may be ready.. as long as it was CSS prior to summer. The wood that your going to work on over the winter probably not, that being said your most likely going to be shot unless what you already processed is what you would burn in a full season. If that is the case (your short on wood) you need to purchas more wood that is seasoned  now for next year and start processing for the following season


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> The depending on the type of wood, the wood you CSS in the spring of 18 may be ready.. as long as it was CSS prior to summer. The wood that your going to work on over the winter probably not, that being said your most likely going to be shot unless what you already processed is what you would burn in a full season. If that is the case (your short on wood) you need to purchas more wood that is seasoned  now for next year and start processing for the following season




possible ill be short. in another question of mine i worked out that i have a ton of standing dead trees which will be faster to dry.

if i cut and stack by January, thats 11 months of drying time. wood actually dries faster in the winter so thats 3-4 months of that.

i can even split them into smaller pieces to make the drying faster.

thoughts?


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> possible ill be short. in another question of mine i worked out that i have a ton of standing dead trees which will be faster to dry.
> 
> if i cut and stack by January, thats 11 months of drying time. wood actually dries faster in the winter so thats 3-4 months of that.
> 
> ...


Start a solar kiln as some of us do.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> possible ill be short. in another question of mine i worked out that i have a ton of standing dead trees which will be faster to dry.
> 
> if i cut and stack by January, thats 11 months of drying time. wood actually dries faster in the winter so thats 3-4 months of that.
> 
> ...



Wood dose not dry faster in the winter months. It actually slows .. right now evaporation has slowed

 Dont be fooled by standing dead wood, i'v seen standing dead oak well over a year mesure in the mid 30MC. The seasoning process truly doesn't start untill its split

Splitting small is a mistake as you want a variety of wood to burn, small, medium,  and large. Split it all small and your next complaint will be your burning a ton of wood and your burn times stink. You need some fat wood for long or overnight burns. Below is a pick of some over night or long burning wood


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Start a solar kiln as some of us do.



I was going to suggest this but don't know this persons situation, not even sure if they are able and not sure if he/she has enough experience


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I was going to suggest this but don't know this persons situation, not even sure if they are able and not sure if he/she has enough experience


I understand, but to get experience you need to start one first. If he starts reading your posts and @Poindexter posts, he will understand.


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Wood dose not dry faster in the winter months. It actually slows .. right now evaporation has slowed
> 
> Dont be fooled by standing dead wood, i'v seen standing dead oak well over a year mesure in the mid 30MC. The seasoning process truly doesn't start untill its split
> 
> ...



well arent you a bundle of positivity 

its impossible to say with certainty that wood dries faster in summer because youre not taking into account RH. what about humid summers? that wood isnt going to dry very well.

ill cut down the dead wood and see what it reads. people in here say to only use the top of the tree.. not the entire thing.

Yes, i dont know why i said faster. i meant that it does dry in the winter. its very common for companies which dry massive amounts of wood to use dehumidifiers which actually cool the air. its called dehumidification kilns. 

ill see how it goes. will be interesting.


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Start a solar kiln as some of us do.



ill have to try this....research time


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I was going to suggest this but don't know this persons situation, not even sure if they are able and not sure if he/she has enough experience



i can definitely build one. just have to figure out what it is


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> ill have to try this....research time


Woodsplitter67 and Poindexter posted a lot of info on this topic. Start reading.


----------



## elasticman (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> I understand, but to get experience you need to start one first. If he starts reading your posts and @Poindexter posts, he will understand.


yikes! That is a lot of work just to dry wood. I almost bought a pellet stove because I am sick of stacking/splitting/moving my wood piles around


----------



## Dug8498 (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> $250 a cord is the going rate in central MA



That’s not too bad. Up here in southern nh green cords are 250-300. Maybe you could grab some bio bricks or some other type of compressed log to burn this winter? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> yikes! That is a lot of work just to dry wood. I almost bought a pellet stove because I am sick of stacking/splitting/moving my wood piles around


The Poindexter way is a lot of work yes, but it can be done much simpler. And you can dry oak over the simmer instead of 2-3 years. I started my first one very simplistic in June at 38% MC and it was 18% in October. Off the ground under 6 mil plastic not covering the wood is a good start. But again there are more experienced members here and they posted about it.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> yikes! That is a lot of work just to dry wood. I almost bought a pellet stove because I am sick of stacking/splitting/moving my wood piles around



Its actually not alot of work. If it is then you need to improve your setup. I split all of my wood and stack it in my shed and never touch it untill i need it.. that doesn't sound like lots of work.. i Handel my wood once.. that's it.. i can dry my wood in a kiln, leave in in the racks and then to the house, again only handling it once prior to burning and once to the seasoning process. I season all of my wood in a shed.. at one point i was sitting on 14 cord CSS i cut it down to 9 cord CSS due to the fact if i get short i can season my oak in 4 months. I can cut it in april/may and its  sub20%MC by august.. the solar kiln is easy.. the sun does all the work for you..


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

elasticman said:


> yikes! That is a lot of work just to dry wood. I almost bought a pellet stove because I am sick of stacking/splitting/moving my wood piles around



dont get me started. "itll be EASIER" i told the misses ITLL BE LESS WORK.. i told the misses

"but i love how romantic real wood stoves feel" she told me.

now im here bothering you guys with how to heat my house because she couldnt handle throwing a bag of pellets into a set it and forget it pellet stove


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> i can definitely build one. just have to figure out what it is


You could always buy a prefab firewood kiln, and let us know how it works out?

https://www.shelterlogic.com/shop/firewood-seasoning-shed-10-x-20-x-8-ft


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> You could always buy a prefab firewood kiln, and let us know how it works out?
> 
> https://www.shelterlogic.com/shop/firewood-seasoning-shed-10-x-20-x-8-ft



oh wow thanks! ill research this. do you have one or interested in doing one?


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> You could always buy a prefab firewood kiln, and let us know how it works out?
> 
> https://www.shelterlogic.com/shop/firewood-seasoning-shed-10-x-20-x-8-ft



i feel like i could make this out of PVC pipes! hmmmmm the possibilities.......


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> oh wow thanks! ill research this. do you have one or interested in doing one?


I've come close to ordering it several times when it goes on sale.  Never pulled the trigger, because I just don't have a great place to put it currently.  Once I have a few trees taken down, I'll have a spot.  I figure if I can get 5 years out of it, it'd definitely be worth it.  Then, I think you can buy just the cover for considerably less.


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> The Poindexter way is a lot of work yes, but it can be done much simpler. And you can dry oak over the simmer instead of 2-3 years. I started my first one very simplistic in June at 38% MC and it was 18% in October. Off the ground under 6 mil plastic not covering the wood is a good start. But again there are more experienced members here and they posted about it.



so where do i find these posts in here?

what did you mean by "6 mil plastic not covering the wood is a good start"... whats the plastic for if not covering the wood?


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> i feel like i could make this out of PVC pipes! hmmmmm the possibilities.......


I've considered this as well.  Some folks use arched hoop houses with clear plastic used in the nursery business with great success.  For $300, it just wouldn't be worth trying to reinvent the wheel.


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> I've come close to ordering it several times when it goes on sale.  Never pulled the trigger, because I just don't have a great place to put it currently.  Once I have a few trees taken down, I'll have a spot.  I figure if I can get 5 years out of it, it'd definitely be worth it.  Then, I think you can buy just the cover for considerably less.



very nice. i mean if i really wanted to rough it, looking at the manual, i could cut down 15 3" trees, use the straight shots as the frame, and put 6 mil plastic over it. ooOoooooo.

So these dont need any sort of electric fan to blow the air around?


----------



## Jotel me this (Nov 30, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> I've considered this as well.  Some folks use arched hoop houses with clear plastic used in the nursery business with great success.  For $300, it just wouldn't be worth trying to reinvent the wheel.



if i can make one for $100 and have $200 left over for beer i would gladly reinvent anything


----------



## Microduck17 (Nov 30, 2018)

I know the feeling of getting hosed. I paid $230 for 2 cords of "seasoned" ash and elm last year it was like 95% ash. the elm burnt great but the ash hissed like a mad tabby cat when it went into the stove.  I was out of wood so I burnt it anyway. Had to clean my chimney every 4 or 5 days. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> so where do i find these posts in here?
> 
> what did you mean by "6 mil plastic not covering the wood is a good start"... whats the plastic for if not covering the wood?


The plastic is for letting the wood sweat in the sun. If the plastic touches the wood, the moisture drips back into the wood. Not touching the wood allows the moisture run down the inside of the plastic back into the ground. I meant to say touching, not covering.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> so where do i find these posts in here?
> 
> what did you mean by "6 mil plastic not covering the wood is a good start"... whats the plastic for if not covering the wood?


https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/experience-based-solar-kiln-operation.167843/#post-2286620

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-kiln-for-hardwoods.170518/


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> if i can make one for $100 and have $200 left over for beer i would gladly reinvent anything


I know how you feel.  But, good luck building something of this size that won't collapse in the snow or wind for much less.  Holds 7 cords.  Quick and dirty.  More time for the beer.

They also have one half the size for about $200.  Not saying it can't be done, but unless you are scavenging the materials, the $$$ add up fast.  6 mil plastic unsupported won't last long.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

I built a 48 feet rack system out of free pallets, the 6 mil plastic was $60. That was it. The plastic comes in a roll of 200x 20 feet.

I also built a 8x4x7 shed out of free pallets.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> I built a 48 feet rack system out of free pallets, the 6 mil plastic was $60. That was it. The plastic comes in a roll of 200x 20 feet.
> 
> I also built a 8x4x7 shed out of free pallets.


I missed the pictures.  Link to the threads would be more than adequate.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/built-a-woodshed-over-the-weekend.145134/#post-2164114


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 30, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/built-a-woodshed-over-the-weekend.145134/#post-2164114


How about the 48 footer?  Or perhaps you're counting each skid as 12' (4' wide by 3 rows)?  Which would be fair.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Nov 30, 2018)

Winter air can be greatly dryer but remember frozen wood doesn't dry.  Kevin


----------



## tsquini (Nov 30, 2018)

I don't know many firewood guys who are going to cut, spit and stack wood and then have it sit in the yard for 2-3 years to season. They are going to cut it and sell.

In the Boston area to buy truely seasoned firewood it will cost $400 - $500 per cord. That is out of most people price range.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Nov 30, 2018)

No pictures of those. 12 pallets 4 feet each.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 1, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> well arent you a bundle of positivity
> 
> its impossible to say with certainty that wood dries faster in summer because youre not taking into account RH. what about humid summers? that wood isnt going to dry very well.



Its sad that you feel the help that is being provided is not positive. I really believe that any information provided is positive, as it will help you, but only if you choose to take it.
I am providing you information to help you out. For someone like yourself with not much experience you may want to take it. I have decades of dealing with wood and all the experience that goes with it. 

When i said to you that wood seasoning slows in the winter, that was not theory or hypothesis. The statment was made from years of experience and data. This is not data off the internet, or somthing i found but information accumulated over the years. 
December 16 to February 17 my stacks droped an average of 1.3% MC for the 3 month period.. june through August17 the stacks dropped an average of 3%MC for the 3 month period. Which states  in the winter vs the summer the stacks lost less that .43% less moisture than the summer months. This is not a guess.
This is why i dont rush to cut and split my wood in the fall. Its why i start working on my wood in the winter. There's no real advantage to the wood sitting there those months so I don't rush to get my wood in my wood shed by December. Your not that far from me so our conditions are relatively the same. 
I've dropped cherry from the upper 39% mc to 2%mc in 6 months in a kiln
Again not stuff i found on the internet.. acutal things iv done and posted on the internet.. 
You cant operate a kiln in the winter it dosent work, your not really going to see any significant seasoning of your wood in the winter regardless of RH because that's not how it works. Standing dead trees are somewhat drier than fresh cut green trees there's not going to be a large or significant drop-in moisture content as the purpose of the bark is to hold moisture in its like cellophane wrapped around the tree and the majority of moisture is lost through the end-grain so true seasoning actually does not start until the wood is cut to length and split

Im here to help people like yourself and anyone who reads the thread that might not know that much or is just starting out. Im doing you and all who read it a disservice by being positive and telling you that you're Woods going to dry during the winter and standing dead will be ready to burn in 11 months when it's really not true

You can try to be positive about your wood seasoning.. positivity doesn't season wood techniques do


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 1, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Start a solar kiln as some of us do.



of course the question is...

would all black plastic heat the wood more than clear? you lose the greenhouse concept, but black does absorb heat


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Dec 1, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> of course the question is...
> 
> would all black plastic heat the wood more than clear? you lose the greenhouse concept, but black does absorb heat


Most of us use clear plastic.


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 1, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Its sad that you feel the help that is being provided is not positive. I really believe that any information provided is positive, as it will help you, but only if you choose to take it.



im sorry you feel that way. i never said it wasnt positive.


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 1, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> But, good luck building something of this size that won't collapse in the snow or wind for much less.



GASP! am i being challenged!? 

Then i shall build one. youre right. most will collapse. good thing i have a background in structural engineering.

Ill do the frames in all triangles so that the forces are spread evenly on all three sides PLUS the snow will better slide down the sloped sides.

hmmmmmm... yesssss the gears are turning

THANKS!


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 1, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> GASP! am i being challenged!?
> 
> Then i shall build one. youre right. most will collapse. good thing i have a background in structural engineering.
> 
> ...


Motivated, not challenged!  

My background is about the opposite of a structural engineer, but I really enjoy seeing the work of people who think like that.  

When I was younger and before discovering my aptitudes, I thought it'd be a great way to make a living.

I'm more partial to domes myself, as is the plant nursery industry, but i look forward to seeing what you come up with with your triangles.

Those Shelterlogic structures get iffy reviews anyway.


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 1, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Motivated, not challenged!
> 
> My background is about the opposite of a structural engineer, but I really enjoy seeing the work of people who think like that.
> 
> ...



ooOooo.. domes vs triangles. now we're talking. its a fun conversation to have. both have their benefits and flaws. they say a triangle is the strongest, yet you only see arches under bridges and buildings in the ancient days.. and theyre STILL STANDING!


----------



## maple1 (Dec 2, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> of course the question is...
> 
> would all black plastic heat the wood more than clear? you lose the greenhouse concept, but black does absorb heat


 
Black blocks the suns rays.


----------



## The.Devo (Dec 2, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Black blocks the suns rays.


 Gears are turning...what about every other panel, black, clear, black, clear


----------



## maple1 (Dec 2, 2018)

I'd go all clear.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 2, 2018)

The.Devo said:


> Gears are turning...what about every other panel, black, clear, black, clear


Black on the north side if anywhere.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 2, 2018)

The.Devo said:


> Gears are turning...what about every other panel, black, clear, black, clear



You dont really need any black plastic.the sun will not have any issues on heating up the inside of the kiln. What your doing is creating a green house. The sun dose not heat the plastic. Clear plastic allows the suns rays in and heats the item... the plastic holds the heat and allows the temperature to climb on the inside. If you notice ther is never black plastic on the outside of a greenhouse. You can use black on the inside floor to help generate heat, but im telling you the extra effort is not needed. If you take the time and put it together correctly you can get it to 120 degrees on the inside with verry little effort


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 2, 2018)

The.Devo said:


> Gears are turning...what about every other panel, black, clear, black, clear



now that would be a science experiment! clear is obviously the way to go, but WHAT IF there is a better alternative that no one thought of because everyone thinks clear is best?


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Dec 2, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> now that would be a science experiment! clear is obviously the way to go, but WHAT IF there is a better alternative that no one thought of because everyone thinks clear is best?


I think you're making this much more complicated than it should be.


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 2, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> I think you're making this much more complicated than it should be.



MeeEEEeEEeh? 

isnt this a forum for creativity and getting your hands dirty?


----------



## Jay106n (Dec 3, 2018)

This topic comes up every year. Yup, they took you for a ride.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 3, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> now that would be a science experiment! clear is obviously the way to go, but WHAT IF there is a better alternative that no one thought of because everyone thinks clear is best?


An experiment that's already been done and done and done.  Add your name to to the list if you want.  You'll find clear works better.


----------



## Sully1515 (Dec 3, 2018)

elasticman said:


> what should the moisture meter read for "seasoned" wood?



Anything under 20% is ideal.  18% is usually when I start to burn.  However, when you measure the moisture on your firewood, make sure you test numerous logs.  Split three to four pieces, and take an average.  Anything greater than 20%, don't buy it.  

Hoping that helps.  

How many cord did you purchase and what is the wood species?


----------



## maple1 (Dec 3, 2018)

Is anybody who is buying wood actually buying stuff that is 20% or less? That would seem to be akin to finding a nugget while prospecting. Rare.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Dec 3, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Is anybody who is buying wood actually buying stuff that is 20% or less? That would seem to be akin to finding a nugget while prospecting. Rare.


Happened to me once. Agree, very rare.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 3, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> MeeEEEeEEeh?
> 
> isnt this a forum for creativity and getting your hands dirty?


 Your right about this.. but heres the thing.. when i did the kiln it wasnt because i needed to dry my wood.. at the time i was 3 yrs ahead, almost 13 cord CSS. I did it to see if i got jamed up, could i get myself out of a jam with out relying on anybody else for seasoned wood. If my experiment failed it had no influence on my wood burning. I had 13 cord and all my storage set up, 3 woodsheds. Your not in this position.. if your experiment doesn't work, your in the same boat next year as your in this year. Looking for usable wood to burn.
The following below is all hlp and observations.. please dont take any of it the wrong way.
From reading your posts you have no real wood storage, and your not sitting on alot of wood. If you burn 4 cords of wood per year right now you should be sitting on, or have plans for having a minimum of 8 cords. By the end april,If your not sitting on that much wood than you havent solved you wood issue. First you need enough wood to burn, for 2 years.2nd you need enough dry wood to burn for 19/20. The kil is to get you out of a jam.. i dont rely on it. I dont put it together every year as i try to make my wood process as stream line as possible. I do the best i can and try to handle the wood as little as possible.Thers no value of dreaming up a kiln when you dont have enough wood to run in it..
If you choose to do a kiln you dont need to start to run it untill june.. meanwhile get your wood score up.. once your in sitting on alot of wood run a known kiln to insure you wood drying success and have enough wood for the entire season next year. Then after that.. come up with somthing improved and post it for all to see..


----------



## maple1 (Dec 3, 2018)

Yup. First focus should be on getting lots of wood ahead. That should be an ongoing thing until you get there.


----------



## Jotel me this (Dec 3, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Your right about this.. but heres the thing.. when i did the kiln it wasnt because i needed to dry my wood.. at the time i was 3 yrs ahead, almost 13 cord CSS. I did it to see if i got jamed up, could i get myself out of a jam with out relying on anybody else for seasoned wood. If my experiment failed it had no influence on my wood burning. I had 13 cord and all my storage set up, 3 woodsheds. Your not in this position.. if your experiment doesn't work, your in the same boat next year as your in this year. Looking for usable wood to burn.
> The following below is all hlp and observations.. please dont take any of it the wrong way.
> From reading your posts you have no real wood storage, and your not sitting on alot of wood. If you burn 4 cords of wood per year right now you should be sitting on, or have plans for having a minimum of 8 cords. By the end april,If your not sitting on that much wood than you havent solved you wood issue. First you need enough wood to burn, for 2 years.2nd you need enough dry wood to burn for 19/20. The kil is to get you out of a jam.. i dont rely on it. I dont put it together every year as i try to make my wood process as stream line as possible. I do the best i can and try to handle the wood as little as possible.Thers no value of dreaming up a kiln when you dont have enough wood to run in it..
> If you choose to do a kiln you dont need to start to run it untill june.. meanwhile get your wood score up.. once your in sitting on alot of wood run a known kiln to insure you wood drying success and have enough wood for the entire season next year. Then after that.. come up with somthing improved and post it for all to see..




thanks. i just got  several cords of burnable wood delivered a few days ago. that should be enough for now as i work on this.this is going to be a fun project.

*im going to post my progress on the thread i made:*

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-kiln-jotel-me-this-style.172087/


----------



## hickoryhoarder (Dec 5, 2018)

Jotel me this said:


> just had my wood delivered. massive load of wood but looks pretty good. when i pulled out the moisture meter the guy got mad and started spewing off how come i dont believe him. i told him im measuring the wood or its no deal. he keeps going off about how NO one ever questioned him. so i pulled out my splitter haha to check. runs at 20%. should be good enough for the winter.
> 
> next year... im processing ALL my wood from my own trees. no more dealing with people who want $1000 but then complain when you want to check to be sure youre getting what you paid for.



No honest person should be offended by someone measuring moisture in firewood.


----------



## wooduser (Dec 5, 2018)

elasticman said:


> just bought 2 cords from a guy who advertised it as "seasoned" and paid seasoned rates. I asked "is it dry"? The kid driving the truck told me it had been cut 3 months ago and put in a kiln for 2 or 3 days to dry it out.  Just started a fire and the moisture is bubbling out the end of the logs.
> 
> Tried to facebook message the dude and he is not responding.
> 
> Did I get hosed?





Ummm.  It sounds like you were given perfectly honest and accurate information on the firewood. Cut down three months ago and in a kiln 2-3 days.  Unfortunately,  you didn't know how to interpret the information you asked for and were given.


----------



## CincyBurner (Dec 6, 2018)

_Caveat emptor_.
If you buy a baked pie one assumes it's fully baked to doneness.  You wouldn't expect the rejoinder from the seller to be, "Well it _was_ baked (for 5 minutes)".
I guess not so for kiln-dried firewood.
That begs the question: How dry ? To what moisture content (MC) ?
Is there industry standards for MC of kiln-dried wood ?

In defense:
What was the purpose for kiln-drying firewood - meet regulations (e.g. APHIS) to kill insects ?
If wood is kiln-dried to a lower MC: Is there a state law for firewood (maximum MC) ?  Has seller advertised/ stated a certain MC ?
Kiln-drying is an energy intensive, value-added procedure for which buyers should expect to pay more for product (firewood).  The trade-off: for low MC dry wood, additional energy is used to prepare the product, instead of waiting 2-3 to have passive (solar) energy season your wood.


----------



## wooduser (Dec 6, 2018)

CincyBurner said:


> _Caveat emptor_.
> If you buy a baked pie one assumes it's fully baked to doneness.  You wouldn't expect the rejoinder from the seller to be, "Well it _was_ baked (for 5 minutes)".
> I guess not so for kiln-dried firewood.
> That begs the question: How dry ? To what moisture content (MC) ?
> ...



He wasn't told that the pie was fully baked.  He was told it had been made three months before and had been in the oven 2-3 days!

Was the pie done at that point?  The seller didn't say.  And unfortunately,  the buyer didn't know that the pie was still only slightly baked. based on the facts as stated.

It's unfortunate the buyer didn't have the experience to know that the wood was still green,  but I don't think the seller was being dishonest.  

The seller gave him accurate information on the seasoning the wood had received.

And according to many of the posts I see on this board,  lots of people buy wood just like that,  and expect to do the seasoning themselves.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 7, 2018)

wooduser said:


> He wasn't told that the pie was fully baked.  He was told it had been made three months before and had been in the oven 2-3 days!
> 
> Was the pie done at that point?  The seller didn't say.  And unfortunately,  the buyer didn't know that the pie was still only slightly baked. based on the facts as stated.
> 
> ...



So again you couldn't be more wrong.

The PO stated the the wood was advertised as seasoned. The purchaser thought the wood was seasoned, and paid a price for seasoned wood. The wood purchased was not at a discount, or green wood prices. Its unfortunate that the OP has little experience, and its it's a shame that he spent his hard-earned money for wood that he thought was seasoned and is not burnable. We are here to help.
Your post adds no value nor is it actuall help. 
To the OP going forward if you going to purchase wood, go on the premises that its for the following year and unseasoned, dont pay a premium and get your wood storage needs together to keep the wood in good condition. Get a MM so you know where the MC content is


----------



## elasticman (Dec 7, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So again you couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> The PO stated the the wood was advertised as seasoned. The purchaser thought the wood was seasoned, and paid a price for seasoned wood. The wood purchased was not at a discount, or green wood prices. Its unfortunate that the OP has little experience, and its it's a shame that he spent his hard-earned money for wood that he thought was seasoned and is not burnable. We are here to help.
> Your post adds no value nor is it actuall help.
> To the OP going forward if you going to purchase wood, go on the premises that its for the following year and unseasoned, dont pay a premium and get your wood storage needs together to keep the wood in good condition. Get a MM so you know where the MC content is


----------



## elasticman (Dec 7, 2018)

I am the OP. A week later, after storing some of the wood in my dry garage, I tested some random logs with my newly purchased moisture meter. I took about 20 logs from random parts of the stack, split them, and checked the moisture on the ends and in the center. 90% of the split logs (oak) are reddish in the center and are registering between 22 - 28%. They all have that "puke" smell that oak is known to have when green.  I am having a tough time keeping good fires going in my Jotul Castine. I have to run it with the ash door open occasionally or opening the door.

The seller never mentioned that the logs were split 3 mo ago and put in the kiln for 2-3 days. The kid who delivered the wood offered that bit of info. As some of you have said, I did lack the experience to know that what he was describing is not "seasoned".

Now I have to store this wood till next year and burn sawdust logs and bio bricks for this year.

Hopefully someone else has learned from this thread too and wont get burned like I did. No pun intended!


----------



## wooduser (Dec 7, 2018)

elasticman said:


> I am the OP. A week later, after storing some of the wood in my dry garage, I tested some random logs with my newly purchased moisture meter. I took about 20 logs from random parts of the stack, split them, and checked the moisture on the ends and in the center. 90% of the split logs (oak) are reddish in the center and are registering between 22 - 28%. They all have that "puke" smell that oak is known to have when green.  I am having a tough time keeping good fires going in my Jotul Castine. I have to run it with the ash door open occasionally or opening the door.
> 
> The seller never mentioned that the logs were split 3 mo ago and put in the kiln for 2-3 days. The kid who delivered the wood offered that bit of info. As some of you have said, I did lack the experience to know that what he was describing is not "seasoned".
> 
> ...





Here's how Wikipedia defines seasoned wood:

<<
*People also ask*
What does it mean for wood to be seasoned?
*Wood* drying (also *seasoning lumber* or *wood seasoning*) reduces the moisture content of *wood* before its use. When the drying is done in a kiln, the product is known as kiln-dried timber or *lumber*, whereas air drying is the more traditional method.


That's pretty vague,  and calling wood "seasoned" doesn't provide much useful information,  in my view.  But the wood you received arguably meets the definition of "seasoned" wood above,  I suggest.

More importantly,  the seller calling his product seasoned is,  I suggest,  "puffing"  his product,  which is making vague statements to encourage their purchase:

<<
Feedback
*Web results*
*Puffing legal definition of Puffing - Legal Dictionary - The Free Dictionary*

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Puffing
Puffing is generally an expression or exaggeration made by a salesperson or found in an advertisement that concerns the quality of goods offered for sale. It presents opinions rather than facts and is usually not considered a legally binding promise.



The delivery guy made what might reasonably be considered a guarantee about the product  ---- that the trees had been cut three months before and kiln dried for three days.    If that was a guarantee  (it might not be)  it was apparently a truthful one.

It's not my intention to beat up on you.  You did   what you could at the time.


I like the guy on another thread who described taking delivery of wood.  He took a stick of wood and split it and measured the moisture with a moisture meter,  all over the angry objections of the seller.  In that case though,  the wood was down to a suitably low moisture level!  But even that might not be adequate testing.

I see numerous threads where ONE piece of wood is tested with a moisture meter.  Statistical sampling suggests that several pieces of wood should be selected at random for testing,  including from the center of a delivery.  

I make poor purchase decisions sometimes,  too.  Sorry this didn't work out as well as you had hoped.  Next time,  I bet you you are out there with an axe and a moisture meter!


----------



## wooduser (Dec 7, 2018)

So how do our experienced wood burning Xperts buy firewood,  if they buy it at all?

I see a good many posts where people recommend against buying firewood,  and doing the jub of cutting,  splitting and seasoning yourself.

Other buy firewood,  but don't expect it to be dry enough to burn without being dried for a year or two.

Many people with new stoves don't have those luxuries,  and don't have experience in buying wood they need to use  right away,  the same year they have bought their new prize stove!

So what steps should such people take to insure that they get wood that is suitably dry to burn in their stove right away,  when they know little or nothing about buying wood?


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Dec 7, 2018)

wooduser said:


> So how do our experienced wood burning Xperts buy firewood,  if they buy it at all?
> 
> I see a good many posts where people recommend against buying firewood,  and doing the jub of cutting,  splitting and seasoning yourself.
> 
> ...



Since I drive a pick-up truck I try to scrounge as much as I can. I search CL for free wood. If I think I will end up under 5-6 cords, I buy. I managed to buy real seasoned wood only once. I try to buy in April/May/June. If the MC is in the low 20's it goes into the wood shed. Anything higher will go on racks under the solar kiln (started one this year with remarkable results).


----------



## wooduser (Dec 7, 2018)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> Since I drive a pick-up truck I try to scrounge as much as I can. I search CL for free wood. If I think I will end up under 5-6 cords, I buy. I managed to buy real seasoned wood only once. I try to buy in April/May/June. If the MC is in the low 20's it goes into the wood shed. Anything higher will go on racks under the solar kiln (started one this year with remarkable results).



Do you have a post or posts on your kiln and how it's worked for you?  I'd be glad to see a link to that.


----------



## Jan Pijpelink (Dec 7, 2018)

wooduser said:


> Do you have a post or posts on your kiln and how it's worked for you?  I'd be glad to see a link to that.


Nope. Look for the posts from woodsplitter67 and poindexter. They have a lot more experience with it.


----------



## weatherguy (Dec 7, 2018)

I feel bad for the OP not getting "seasoned wood" but there isn't a universal meaning for seasoned. We mean it to be under 20% but to many wood sellers it means something different. The only way to protect yourself is to ask the seller if it's under 20%, better yet take a ride to their lot and measure with a moisture meter. If they assure you over the phone it's under 20% measure before they unload it on your lot. That's the only way to protect yourself, dont rely on the sellers meaning of seasoned.


----------



## elasticman (Dec 10, 2018)

just ordered a pallet of overnight (sawdust) logs and bio bricks for the winter. And taking a chainsaw to some pallets I have laying around. This wet wood will be for next year. Live and learn.

BTW the seller never replied to phone or FB messages.


----------



## maple1 (Dec 10, 2018)

There should be some kind of headline sticky one post thread thing, that tells everyone they should assume that buying truly seasoned wood is at least a rare occurrence if not an impossibility. 

And then the next line would be, any & all chance of non-seasoned wood issues would go away with assuming it is all green from the get-go & just seasoning it yourself.

We have the power!


----------



## wooduser (Dec 10, 2018)

maple1 said:


> There should be some kind of headline sticky one post thread thing, that tells everyone they should assume that buying truly seasoned wood is at least a rare occurrence if not an impossibility.




It's especially sad to see so many people get new wood stoves and then discover they don't work very well because the wood they have isn't adequate.  What a disappointment!

I suppose stove shops are too busy taking people's money to ask about the wood supply that will be going into it.

I expect it's a hard lesson for people to learn that they need to cut, stack and split wood for THREE YEARS USE  before they can expect to start their wood burning!

It seems that the wood people use is perhaps more important than the stove they burn it in.

I must say that this board is an education on these subjects,  if people can find it and take the time to read it.


----------



## elasticman (Dec 10, 2018)

wooduser said:


> I must say that this board is an education on these subjects,  if people can find it and take the time to read it.



Amen!

funny thing is, I have been burning wood for over 20 years! I really have never had a problem until now. I've always gotten wood from good people I guess.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 10, 2018)

elasticman said:


> Amen! funny thing is, I have been burning wood for over 20 years! I really have never had a problem until now. I've always gotten wood from good people I guess.



Older stoves were more forgiving. I bought 1/4 cord of kiln dried several years ago. Came bagged. It was legit stuff and their biggest customers are apparently restaurants. I was sitting on 7-8 cords of CSS wood but not much of it was ready. The wood was better than what I probably would have gotten from a local fire wood dealer but not as good as 2-3 yr CSS wood. 

As far as getting by this year unless they're 36% you can throw in some of the better sticks of cord wood you have once the fire is established with your pallets and bricks. I never had great results burning bricks alone and one or two splits (depending on size) at a time on a good coal bed helped out a lot.


----------

