# EKO Owner 2nd year burning



## eekster (Jan 18, 2008)

Great site, wish I found this last year when having issues with new burner. Solved many problems last year , mainly due to wood size. Been reading this forum for about 4 months and thought I would post. This is my set up, 2400 sq. ft house 400 sq. ft. garage, boiler located in garage, not code, which I know , but wouldn"t be able to pull permit due to ASME non-certification. Insurance co. aproved boiler and location and commented "Never seen anything like it, specs you supplied were great help, more than safe."  So that it where it is located. Great product, gas bills during 0-5below were 25.00 due to heating pole barn and just having a meter.Plus the house has never been this warm of temp, cause the boiler sure does work Also purchased form Cozy Heat. Dave was a great help and I still call to just say hi and what kind of feedback he has been getting. Please, if I can help anyone do not hesitate to ask !!  Thanks for all of you that have intriqued my interest in many thoughts.                    Keith Jandreski

I'd love to post a few pic's, looking for some help!  Thanks


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 18, 2008)

Welcome to the Boiler Room, Keith. It's always good to have another EKO owner onboard. What model do you have?

Please post some pics.


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## eekster (Jan 18, 2008)

I have  the 40 and no water storage, but still works well. I can get 8-12 burns on a load.        
 Tried to send pictures last night, couldn"t get it to work. How do you upload?
            Thanks, Keith


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 18, 2008)

If you choose the "post reply" option, you will see a "browse" window at the bottom of the page. If you choose the "fast reply" option, you have to go into "Edit" mode to find the browse window. Hit "Preview" between each pic choice to post multiple pics. And they have to be the right size. I generally try to size my pics around 10" x 7" (more or less) at 72 dpi. You can go smaller, but not bigger.

Can you share what you learned last year when debugging your setup? I think over time we should be able to work out a solution for most the the common problems that people seem to have. As I said in another thread, these tend to be adjustments to make the things run even better, and I get that sense that everyone is successfully heating their homes with them even when they're not completely dialed in. I know I did.


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## eekster (Jan 18, 2008)

The biggest problem was my wood was split to small (fireplace size), once I got 
ahold of large split my puffing problem quit. Also adjusted purge time to 3 minutes and fan speed is now set at 5. Also when I talked to Zennon, these boilers need to run. I have two furnaces one upstairs and one downstairs, each with a circulator, I have water to air exchangers in the ductwork. Zennon suggested to constantly run one to make boiler cycle,
so I have both pumps running which helps with overtemp water is always hot in coils and floors and crawlspace stays warm. With fan speed on 5 and large wood and a couple of logs on top, boiler runs longer and cleaner. I will try to post my pics when I get back from up north on Sunday, cutting wood and meeting a logger. Thanks for the advice on the pics .
                                                  Keith


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## eekster (Jan 23, 2008)

Hope thes pictures come out, I included pictures of my ductwork modification for the heat exchangers, boiler installation and my homemade ash can. The can works great especially with the boiler being 18" off floor, I filled this can twice all season-Nov.-March. I have a little shorter burning season than most of you, with me being in southeast MI.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 23, 2008)

Beautiful setup. Thanks for sharing. Really nice.

I get a lot more ash than that. How much wood do you burn?

My only comment would be that I would have gone with black stovepipe up to the ceiling 1.) to save money on the chimney and cleanout tee; and 2.) to recover some radiant heat for the boiler room instead of sending it up the chimney.


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## wdc1160 (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks eekster.

Eric have you ever put a post together or participated in a post on different stovepipe approaches??
I searched and didn't see anything?


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## eekster (Jan 23, 2008)

I probably burned 4 cords if I had to guess, Zennon recommended using double wsll being in the garage to reduce condensation off the pipe, it sure would have been cheaper  I also check the clean out about every three weeks, always find ash dust in it. Thanks for the compliment on the system, a few hours involved as I"m sure you know.
                                          Keith


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 23, 2008)

No. What are your thoughts?

I'm thinking the only reason for bringing the chimney down to the stove would be if condensation is a concern, but I don't claim any knowledge or expertise beyond my own limited experience.


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## eekster (Jan 23, 2008)

I think when Zennon told me this, He probably didn"tknow that the garage was insulated. Really not a bad decision though, cause the garage still will stay at 55-65 degrees depending on out door temp and nice protection from getting burned. Just learning how this posting works. But really like this site-it"s very addicting.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 23, 2008)

Well, time is one thing, but having the skill and vision to set everything up so neat and well organized is pretty impressive. I especially like the fire extinguisher mounting. Did you do the work yourself? Why did you put the boiler up on blocks?

I hear you about the output of these things. Having operated conventional wood-fired boilers for around 12 years prior to getting the EKO, I got used to a certain amount of heat produced for wood burned. I continue to be impressed by how much more heat I can get out of the same wood. In a way it's like having a new house. My wife turns all three zones up to 80 and the next thing you know, the house is 80 degrees. Never had that happen before--unless it was 60 degrees out. Now it will even do that when it's below zero. Amazing.


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## eekster (Jan 23, 2008)

Code in Michigan which(for furnaces or water heaters) in garages is 18" for burners off floor. Just a little precaution when I set it up. Makes it alot easier to clean ashes out. I did do all my self with help from a friend or two. I"ve been in the hvac and boiler trade for about 12 years. And yes the wife also loves the warmer house. I store my wood in the garage so it always stays nice and dry, Can go out in the morning in slippers and underware and reload which is nice. Getting back to the ashes, I found the longer it burns (less ideling) the less ashes youhave. Also, Dave at Cozy Heat helped me alot with piping diagram, pipe size, etc. He was very helpful. I can"t take all the credit.


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## Gagz (Jan 23, 2008)

eekster I am not in to art in any way shape or form,but I can honestly say you have swayed me with your pics and setup . Very nice and congrats on your finsished project


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## eekster (Jan 26, 2008)

Question..? Is it possible for wood to be too dry? I have a moisture meter and checked my wood this morning and it wouldn"t even read 7 percent. Noticed a lot longer burns this year and boiler doesn"t cycle much lately which isn"t good. Chimney at top seems blacker this year than last. My wood was about 15 % last year and burned cleaner and cycled more. My meter is working I checked it on other wood. Any thoughts?
                                    Keith


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 26, 2008)

The EKO specs call for wood between 15 and 30 percent mc. So yes, your wood can be too dry. It's too early in the morning for me to think through what the consequences would be, but I think puffing is one of the symptoms.


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## eekster (Jan 26, 2008)

I don"t have any puffing everything is working great  11-12 hour burn times, Just doesn"t cycle much. And like I said chimney (outside top) seems very black) I am going to check inside today and see what It loks like. I think have a big pile of wood in the garage where it is warm is drying it ou too much.
            Keith


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 26, 2008)

I guess the soot at the top of your chimney suggests an incomplete burn. Do you get any smoke?

In my experience, no matter how you've got your wood stacked or stored, the pieces in the lower half of the stack are going to be noticeably wetter than the stuff on the top. Mixing them up can be a logistical challenge, but maybe worth the effort.


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## Tony H (Jan 27, 2008)

Eekster - Nice looking setup, I am installing a similar setup with the EKO 40 in a shed behind my garage and running to a heat exchanger in the Gas forced air furnace in the basement with no storage (yet). Do you have a diagram of your setup and some close up pictures you could share? It would be great to see a setup so similar to what I need. 
Thanks


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## eekster (Jan 27, 2008)

Tony, I
 would be happy to help, let me know what close-ups you want and I could make a diagram if you want.        
              Keith


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## Donl (Jan 27, 2008)

eekster said:
			
		

> Tony, I
> would be happy to help, let me know what close-ups you want and I could make a diagram if you want.
> Keith



I think I am at about the same place as Tony H with regards to my planning for the EKO 40. I too would be interested in viewing any diagrams you may have that show how you have designed yours.  The more detail the better.  I have looked closely at the pictures you posted. I wish the resolution was better so I could see things more clearly. What is the black box the that is located near the output  of the EKO? I am guessing that it is a low water cut off. Close????

Don


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## Tony H (Jan 28, 2008)

Thanks eekster  I am most interested in the plumbing right near the boiler with detail or labels so I can make out what is what.

Tony


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## barnartist (Jan 28, 2008)

I just started reading this thread. 
I have that much ash a week! I idle allot though with my 60. Just to be sure im on the right page, idling would mean when the boiler shuts its fans down when up to temp. AKA going into idle.
Ya that setup is very artistic. And how the heck do you keep that room white? You must have terrific draft and no inside smoke.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 28, 2008)

I get about 4 or 5 gallons a week, on average.


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## eekster (Jan 29, 2008)

I"ve got a little catching up to do here!! Let me start with my issue of the dirty stack. Eric, yes I had more smoke than before, checked inside still very clean. I changed my purge cycle from 3 to 4 thinking that it would keep the wood from smoldering more.Second I changed fan speed from 5 to 6 and closed shudder down on fan and presto.. no smoke at all !! Even with extremely dry wood. Checked my wood outside and it was about 20 %. But for now everying is good. To Tony H. and Don L. I will in the next few days get more pictures. I pretty much used the piping set up form Tarms website which is www.woodboilers.com, click installers corner at top, and then click piping layouts on left, it will bring you to different diagrams. I used the first one "only boiler" and than modified it. And yes, Don that is a low water cut off, I have it wired from my main switch through the l.w.c. and back to the outlet where the boiler plugs in. I had a mis-hap when the termovar blew a gasket and lost water.. thankfully I was home. I changed that valve and put a Danfoss valve ( no gaskets to worry about) also changed air elimnator to a spirovent, their expensive but work. Could never get all the air out with the old setup, very pleased with this.
 Last, to Barnartist I have about 18 feet of chminey, so it does draft well it is 8" diameter also. The old 10 foot rule doesn"t always apply especially with wood. I tried to cheat and lost. Had to add another 5 feet to the stack to clear 2nd floor roof. Had bad backdraft with northwest wind. With my ash, I really don"t have as much as you guys, I don"t live in that cold of area( right now it is 38 out and raining) I clean my box every 3-4 days and maybe have a gallon or  so of ash. I also do not clean out the burning chamber till the end of the season, which would also add a fair amount of ash.  I was wondering do you other EKO users clean out your tee? As I said before I get about a quart of ash in it a month, I think its just from the motor and how light the ash is. Hope this wasn"t too long of a post, but I always can"t back in a timely fashion. Thanks for all the interest.
                                         Keith


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## eekster (Jan 31, 2008)

Hey guys
 haven"t forgot about the pictures, been busy this week. Will try to get them up this weekend. 
                Keith


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## eekster (Feb 4, 2008)

Ok guys, here are some more close-ups, I hope these are better and will help, Let me know and I can explain it a little more.
 I screwed up but it still works. The tee"s on the secondary loop should be on top of each other instead of such a far spacing let me know with your questions. It"s easier to answer questions and quicker ( I check this forum at work alot ). Pictures just take me a while.     Keith


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## Donl (Feb 4, 2008)

Great pictures! I can see a lot of detail. This stuff really helps me out.  I'll take a close look now to see if I can figure out  what has been done. Thanks for posting these.

Don


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## eekster (Feb 4, 2008)

Don, did you get all three pictures? I am still learning to upload photos. On my pc I can only see one.
     Keith


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## Donl (Feb 4, 2008)

Yep, I see all three pictures. nice and clear. I've moved them onto my computer so I can view them with Paintshop. Real nice work there. I can't believe how much I've learned form this form. You guys are great 

Don


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## eekster (Feb 4, 2008)

Don, if you have any questions about the piping I can explain it without a diagram, really don"t know how to upload a diagram.
 I think you have to scan it firstand than upload .? I am I correct,? Let me know and good luck.
     Keith


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## Donl (Feb 4, 2008)

I'll write up a few questions over the next couple of days after spending some time studying your pictures.  Yes you are right you would need to scan a drawing first before you could post it. Maybe what I'll do is try to document in a drawing what you have done, I will then post it and you can tell me if I have it right or not. I can already see where I will have a few questions.  For those of you who  copy pictures off  this forum, I have found that you will get a better resolution if you click on the picture first to enlarge it and then do a save to disk.

Don


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## Donl (Feb 5, 2008)

Keith, This is my first attempt to try and draw out your system. How accurate is it?  I had trouble understanding the smaller diameter copper tubing runs.  Maybe you can try to explain that part to me. Also, did I miss a pressure relief valve somewhere? What is your strategy in the event of a power failure?

Don


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## eekster (Feb 5, 2008)

Don, very nice drawing, You"ve got it pretty clos. Relief valve comes off the top of the boiler itself, can"t see it because it"s on the back side of the boiler. The aquastat is a strap on not a well type, this is for over run of temperaturethat turn my largest furnce blower on untill the temp drops in boiler than shuts off. I have just a 550va computer power backup for the main circulator for the boiler, should test to see how long it will run. I do need to work on a little better plan, maybe a automag valve with finn tube in garage ceiling. The only thing missing is the backflow preventer and pressure reducing valve, which you cannot see it"s behind the stack. That"s the 1/2 inch pipe you see. I'll check back tomorrow with you, have to meet one of our service guys with parts.
         Keith


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## Tony H (Feb 5, 2008)

Keith,

Thanks for the pictures , I like the temp gauge in the return line nice idea.

Now for a couple of questions ...... The black box on the water output is that a valve or ?  Shut off / temp sender 

How and what are you using with the Taco controllers wired to the zone circulators for ? Are you wired to thermo's 

What does the small pipe coming off the first / top zone go to ?  DHW ? 

As you can tell from my questions I have alot to learn and want to wire / plumb my system to allow for different variables without needing to redo alot of work to make changes.


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## Tony H (Feb 5, 2008)

Don - nice drawing it makes it a little easier for me to understand as I don't know the parts by sight. 

Keith -  Was the low water shut off and water connection with backflow preventer added in response to the water leak you had ?


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## eekster (Feb 5, 2008)

Tony, the black box off the top is my low water cut-off. I had all of ( backflow preventer, pressure reducing valve and low water cut-off ) in place before my gasket blow out. I installed two single pump controls, if one went down I still had a second one . You can buy one controller that will handle 3 or 4 pumps if I rember correctly. I have seperat thermostats for the wood boiler. When the stat calls for heat, it energizes the pump, then I ran a two wire back tho the furnace which I installed a time delay relay to let the heat exchanger  get up to temp, then it energizes the relay which inturn turns on the blower. When the stat is satified, turns the blower and pump off. But right now I have my pumps continusly circulating, seems to help the boiler cycle more often and less cresol build up in the box. May use a little more wood, but I can"t imagine that much . I'll try to send pictures of the pr.valve and backflow tonight.      Keith


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## eekster (Feb 6, 2008)

Don and Tony, , here is my version of my scanncer and download, found it easier to do it this way since I know now how to upload pics. Some different shots of the itemes we discussed. Right now I do not have a DHW hooked up, first on the list come spring. What I was told by Danfoss when I faxed them my drawing the tees should be closer together so if return water cools for some reason( lack of wood) the valve closes and with the pumps running they can circulate easier. He (Danfoss said it should probably be ok.) So far no problems. Hope I"m not posting too many pics on this tread for all others who read. Myself I enjoy seeing things, sometimes it"s easier to understand..."a picture"s worth a thousand words." 
        Keith


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## eekster (Feb 6, 2008)

Here"s a couple more pictures that I couldn"t fit on the last post.
       Keith


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## rsnider (Feb 6, 2008)

could you post a pic of inside upper chamber and lower chamber some time i would like to see . does anyone have the inside
dimensions of the upper chamber of the 40 or 25? how much wood can be put in at one time maybe pic one load of wood it will take. thanks ryan


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## Tony H (Feb 6, 2008)

Keith -  thanks for the pics I agree it's much easier to understand when you can see a picture or drawing. BTW you can input a drawing like Don's or the one from tarm and then make notes or changes to it and upload it it you would like.

Many of the MFG system diagrams do not show a water fill what was the reason you put one on yours?


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## Donl (Feb 6, 2008)

Getting closer?  Where does the 1/2 copper coming out of the back flow preventer go?


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## eekster (Feb 7, 2008)

Tony, In MI. when you install a residential gas boiler, per code, you must have a backflow and pressure reducing valve. So I just tried to keep the boiler the same. Water was easily available, I also installed a bypass( fast fill loop) for purging the air out. It works quite well.
  Don, the 1/2 in. pipe off the backflow is just a drain if the prv fails. Mine will just drain on the floor. My garage has quiet a pitch to the floor so water is not an issue. I made a copy of your drawing, I will try to post some changes( how my boiler is set up) from your drawing in the next couple of days. There are many different ways to pipe these systems as you know from reading this forum, not saying mine is the only way, maybe get feedback from some of the other hvac guys. I know I"ve learned alot from them, their knowledge has me always thinking.
 Ryan, I would be happy to give some pics of my load of wood for the night.
   Keith


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## markpee (Aug 23, 2008)

Guys - I know this is an old post, but I am curious about your issues with wood size (eekster).  Are you saying that the wood should be larger than what is put in a fireplace?  Can you go into detail about this?  My EKO 40 will be here next week, and I want to avoid any issues you might have had.  Thanks.


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## Northwoodsman (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your EKO 40 system with us. The system looks quite impressive. I also recently purchased an EKO 40 from Dave at Cozy Heat and plan to start the installation soon (I live in Northern Michigan/by East Jordan). I will be hooking it in parallel with my current Burnham Boiler and plan to convert the entire house to radiant floor heat (the living area above my garage is currently radiant floor heat) in addition to heating my DHW and hot tub with the EKO also. I also have (2) 500 gallon propane tanks that will be part of the storage for the system. I have done much research/calculations and the radiant floor heat w/ storage will provide the largest amount of stored/potential heat energy (due to the fact that I can heat my tanks to 180 F and my floor tubing will work efficently at temperature down to 120-130 F- this results in approx. 450,000 BTU or stored energy).

I was going to start the permit pulling process this week but from the way you talk maybe I'll rethink this idea (and just have the insurance company approve my installation). Are you saying that the local building department will not issue a permit because the unit is not ASME coded? Are there any other reasons other than the ASME coding issue?

How was your insurance company to deal with as far as getting it Ok'd? I currently heat with a Pacific Engergy wood burner and had the insurance company (my local independent agent was great) come out and take photos when I installed it many years ago.

Regarding the firewood, you mentioned that the EKO 40 did not burn as well if the pieces of wood were too small. I finished cutting/splitting and stacking 15 faces cords over the 4th of July and quartered 90% of the wood. I am also performing an experiment with both whole/halved and quartered pieces of wood to see which ones will lose the moist moisture before winter (in the first month and half they have lost 10-15% of the moisture).

If your ever in the area maybe you could stop by and we could chat/share information.

Thanks Again !


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## Hansson (Aug 25, 2008)

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> The EKO specs call for wood between 15 and 30 percent mc. So yes, your wood can be too dry. It's too early in the morning for me to think through what the consequences would be, but I think puffing is one of the symptoms.



People here have problems whit puffing have solt it whit a draft damper 
http://www.pellets.info/viewtopic.php?t=7274

http://translate.google.com/transla...iewtopic.php?t=7274&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&sl=sv&tl=en


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