# Let's Talk 2 Cycle Mixes



## MarkinNC (Aug 1, 2011)

It's a little slow lately so I thought I would put out a couple of lingering questions I had.  I had been using the Opti-2 2 cycle premix in all my 2 cycle equipment and I have been really happy with it.  The guys at the local Stihl dealership told me they see a lot of sludge in the crank cases of saws running this.  Whether or not this causes the case to be split anyway is a different question altogether.

I bought a bunch of Stihl HP Ultra since it is the only fully synthetic mix I know of.  I see Stihl will double your warranty (non-commercial) if you use it.  I don't care for the way it smells but oh well.

When  I bought my 346xp a few months ago they fueled it with the Husqvarna semi synthetic.  All 3 seem fine to me.

I am not a brand loyal person most of the time.  I do run a lot of synthetics though.  Anybody have any input into what they are running and why?


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## DexterDay (Aug 1, 2011)

MarkinNC said:
			
		

> It's a little slow lately so I thought I would put out a couple of lingering questions I had.  I had been using the Opti-2 2 cycle premix in all my 2 cycle equipment and I have been really happy with it.  The guys at the local Stihl dealership told me they see a lot of sludge in the crank cases of saws running this.  Whether or not this causes the case to be split anyway is a different question altogether.
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> I bought a bunch of Stihl HP Ultra since it is the only fully synthetic mix I know of.  I see Stihl will double your warranty (non-commercial) if you use it.  I don't care for the way it smells but oh well.
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All of the above. I run the Husqvarna oil, in the saws that still have warranty and Stihl oil in everything else (Weedwackers, Hedge trimmers, etc). Been talk on here about the Amsoil 100:1 ratio mix. I am to afraid to try it. Your saw would run like a Thouroghbred on Steriods. Dont know if I would push it. 50:1 is just fine. Both oils are good. Some say an oil is an oil. They may be right. But I try to run a synthetic in everything I own. All my Cars, Trucks and equipment (ATV's, Roto-tillers, Mowers) have Royal Purple in them.


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## amateur cutter (Aug 1, 2011)

+ 1 on a good quality synthetic, I run Stihl ultra cause that's what my dealer sells. I too stick with 50:1, or even 40:1 depending on weather & cutting conditions. A C


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## jensent (Aug 1, 2011)

We have been using Opti-2 for about 15 years. No problems. The same product is available at the local farrm store rebadged as Oregon "Only one." Two stroke oil and stabilizer in one packet. Recommended by both our Stihl and Dolmar dealers.
Tom


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## HittinSteel (Aug 1, 2011)

I run woodland pro synthetic from baileys (believe it is rebranded echo powerblend). Used to run stihl ultra and Husky XP, but realized there wasn't actually gold flakes in them to justify the price.


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## davmor (Aug 1, 2011)

I use to use Opti-2 no problems. Switched over to Amsoil. Because I liked the way my snowmobiles ran with Amsoil. I have run the Amsoil 100 to 1 with no problems, ran it 50 to 1 don't seem to make much of a difference.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 1, 2011)

MarkinNC said:
			
		

> It's a little slow lately so I thought I would put out a couple of lingering questions I had.  I had been using the Opti-2 2 cycle premix in all my 2 cycle equipment and I have been really happy with it.  The guys at the local Stihl dealership told me they see a lot of sludge in the crank cases of saws running this.  Whether or not this causes the case to be split anyway is a different question altogether.
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> I bought a bunch of Stihl HP Ultra since it is the only fully synthetic mix I know of.  I see Stihl will double your warranty (non-commercial) if you use it.  I don't care for the way it smells but oh well.
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I've been running Royal Purple TCW-3 - which is a full synthetic - for the last couple years.  I'm doing this mostly because I found it on sale and bought a bunch of it 5 or 6 years ago.  

Air cooled 2 stroke engines are not that picky, and, I doubt anyone on this board has ever seen an oil-related failure in a chainsaw.


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## CTYank (Aug 1, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> Air cooled 2 stroke engines are not that picky, and, I doubt anyone on this board has ever seen an oil-related failure in a chainsaw.



Once, our head-case boss told an idiot kid to take a Homie and cut a large bush. Didn't tell him the chain wouldn't work for plowing, or where the container of MIX was.
Straight-gassing will get 'em every time- totally trashed p&c. (Our standard mix was Echo 50:1.)

Saw mfgs tell all sorts of stories about mix ratios to use:
ratio with their oil, ratio with all other oils (half as much as with theirs, e.g. 25:1 vice 50:1),
16:1 regardless which oil,
ratio spec'd on oil container,
50:1 for BIA spec TCW oil.

In spirit of K.I.S.S. here, I've used nothing but 50:1 with "brand-name" synthetic oil labeled as suitable for 50:1, for 30+ yrs. No failures, engine innards look great. Extreme little smoke. As experts have stated, it's the OIL that determines the ratio, not the engine. Keeping port & muffler clean is a big +.

Most all quality oils have fuel-stabilizer, so no need of Sea-Foam or such. Just keep fuel in sealed container, in as cool & dry a place as possible.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 1, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Been talk on here about the Amsoil 100:1 ratio mix. I am to afraid to try it.


I used to run 50:1 Amsoil Dominator mixed at 40:1, but switched to the 100:1 Amsoil Saber mixed at 50:1.  I don't have the guts to run it at 100:1 either, but I know people who run it at 80:1 (they are braver souls) with no problem.

This weekend I tried running a saw using straight bar oil just for giggles, but for some strange reason the saw only ran for about 5 seconds.  I also tried using 2-stoke mix as bar oil, but the saw quit before I could see how that worked.  :red:

At least I learned how to take apart the primer pump on my 339 and flush the tank and fuel line out.   I finally got it started, but the saw still smoked like a mother for quite a while. :shut:


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 1, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> This weekend I tried running a saw using straight bar oil just for giggles, but for some strange reason the saw only ran for about 5 seconds.  I also tried using 2-stoke mix as bar oil, but the saw quit before I could see how that worked.  :red



How many here will admit the same- we've all done it.  I don't think I ever pulled the rope, thankfully- but had poured gas in the bar oil more times than I can count.

I've used standard Stihl 50:1 (?) mix since I had the saw (9yrs) and have never used stabilizer- it's always been fine, but lately I've been thinking about putting stabilizer in my 5 gal jugs when I fill them.  A Stihl will really take some abuse.


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## smokinj (Aug 1, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

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I have not done this one! ran the chain backwards a few times....But the mix gas is a different color and way to much to lose if I stright gas one!


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## firefighterjake (Aug 1, 2011)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

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Hmmm . . . did the oil in the gas tank or maybe it was the other way around once . . . and fortunately I had the local Husqvarna guy working alongside of me (we were clearing a trail for the snowmobile club) so he fixed everything for me and I've had no issues.

As for the mix . . . I too have never used stabilizer in the chainsaw fuel . . . then again I tend to use it up pretty quickly. No issues thus far.


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## Thistle (Aug 1, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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That's why I never loan my saws out! "Uhhmmm yeah Jon,it worked fine after you dropped it off,I have no idea what happened to it :shut: "


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## JustWood (Aug 1, 2011)

I've  used Shindaiwa for a LONG time. 15 years maybe.
I just got a deal on just  shy of 2 cases (23 bottles) of unopened 16 oz bottles of I think Amsoil for $16 at a yard sale. I'm good for a little while!


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## smokinj (Aug 1, 2011)

I dont really care what oil I get as long as it makes in the saw! ;-)


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## JustWood (Aug 1, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> I dont really care what oil I get as long as it makes in the saw! ;-)



Me neither. It's all pretty good oil. Mixing it right is the key to performance. I always bought Shindaiwa because it was priced right and most places carry it around here.
I'm not a fan of synthetics. Even engine oil. No scientific evidence just don't like the idea.
The only place I'll use synthetic is gear lube. I swear by it in gear/bearing applications.


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## smokinj (Aug 1, 2011)

XactLEE said:
			
		

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Yea I would have been all over that deal you got....


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 1, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

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To be fair, that's not a failure caused by premix oil


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## MarkinNC (Aug 1, 2011)

I thought that may be the case:  it's all decent stuff, at least the brand name oils.  Thanks for all the replies


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## MarkinNC (Aug 1, 2011)

I forgot to say I don't have guts to run any 2 stroke with a 100:1 mix.  I think Amsoil makes some very good products as well.


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## jebatty (Aug 2, 2011)

Cheapskate at work in my house. I mix 50:1 on the least expensive 2-cycle oil rated for air cooled engines at that mix ratio that I can find; also premium fuel with stabilizer. With that I cut 10 +/- cords per year of firewood for the stove and gasser plus tree felling for lumber in the typical range of 5000 bd ft per year. My Husky 372XPG with 18" bar has been the saw of choice on this since 2002 and I never have done anything to the saw -- no new plugs, fuel filter, or air cleaner -- except clean the air filter, sharpen the chains, dress the bar and keep it full of bar oil. The Husky purrs today as well as when it was new.


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## CTYank (Aug 2, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> To be fair, that's not a failure caused by premix oil



Who ever said anything about "fair"? That was just my way of pointing out that engine lubrication failure in chainsaws is almost certainly due to lack of oil. With any mix oil that meets current BIA specs. Just wouldn't want to go 100:1 with any.

Yes, running excessively lean will burn the biscuits.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 2, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

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My point was not that no one has ever seen a straight gassed or mixed too thin saw.  My point is that saws don't sh_t the bed because someone used the wrong kind of premix oil.


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## Highbeam (Aug 2, 2011)

This "name brand" idea.... does it have any actual weight? I mean, I use supertech two stroke oil in my very expensive diesel truck engine. Certainly, the generic brands are really just rebadged containers of oil made by the small handful of refineries. 

I just buy the poulan synthetic 2-stroke oil in the quart or so size that has the fancy measuring cup on the top. Never had an issue and I've never put bar oil or mixed gas in the wrong hole.


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## MarkinNC (Aug 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> This "name brand" idea.... does it have any actual weight? I mean, I use supertech two stroke oil in my very expensive diesel truck engine. Certainly, the generic brands are really just rebadged containers of oil made by the small handful of refineries.
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> I just buy the poulan synthetic 2-stroke oil in the quart or so size that has the fancy measuring cup on the top. Never had an issue and I've never put bar oil or mixed gas in the wrong hole.



One of my other interests is used oil analysis which I have performed on both my vehicles this year.  In my amateur opinion, there is some off brand motor oil (coastal) that one would not want to run in there car or truck.  the Supertech motor oil from Walmart is actually OK but it's additive package is not as robust as name brand oils.  In regard to 2 cycle premix (2nd hand from the saw shops), the cheepo stuff does not contain fuel stabilizers.  I do know the name brand stuff does advertize on the label that it has fuel stabilizers.  As I recall I have scene Briggs and Stratton premix that does not say anything about that, but don't quote me on that.


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## MarkinNC (Aug 3, 2011)

jebatty said:
			
		

> Cheapskate at work in my house. I mix 50:1 on the least expensive 2-cycle oil rated for air cooled engines at that mix ratio that I can find; also premium fuel with stabilizer. With that I cut 10 +/- cords per year of firewood for the stove and gasser plus tree felling for lumber in the typical range of 5000 bd ft per year. My Husky 372XPG with 18" bar has been the saw of choice on this since 2002 and I never have done anything to the saw -- no new plugs, fuel filter, or air cleaner -- except clean the air filter, sharpen the chains, dress the bar and keep it full of bar oil. The Husky purrs today as well as when it was new.



I love your post soley because I have a 372xp!


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## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2011)

For those wondering, Amsoil says you can mix their oil up at 50:1 or any ratio that pleases you if the recomended 100:1 makes you nervous.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 3, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> For those wondering, Amsoil says you can mix their oil up at 50:1 or any ratio that pleases you if the recomended 100:1 makes you nervous.



Yes, and that fact makes it a lot more forgiving.  That's the main reason why I am willing to spend a few extra pennies on the Saber.  

We go through a lot of gas while carving, so I can't run off to the gas station to get exactly one metered gallon.  I get about 15 gallons of gas but only make up a small can of mix at a time to make sure it's always fresh.  My mixing flask only has markings 1/2 gallon increments and my conveniently sized No-Spill mix can is 1 1/4 gallons.  There is plenty of headroom above the top mark, though, and it's hard to see the gas level through the red plastic.  By going to a 100:1 ratio oil, if I add a little too much gas to the can... NBD.


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## MasterMech (Aug 3, 2011)

Anybody ever read the back of the bottle on Stihl's HP Ultra Synthetic? It pretty much says serve it up in shot glasses and enjoy! lol


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## Highbeam (Aug 3, 2011)

I haven't been able to find 2 cycle oil that did not claim to include a stabilizer. Still, I add sta-bil to every 5 gallon jug that I buy for use with the small engines.


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## MarkinNC (Aug 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I haven't been able to find 2 cycle oil that did not claim to include a stabilizer. Still, I add sta-bil to every 5 gallon jug that I buy for use with the small engines.



You may be correct, that may be saw shop fantasy.  I am using stabil as well.  I think they have a new ethanol product out?


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## smokinj (Aug 3, 2011)

MarkinNC said:
			
		

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They do thats what I use. Even makes the gas smell more like gas.


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## oilstinks (Aug 4, 2011)

i read somewhere from a husky dealer that they see less piston scoreing on the stihl ultra hp than any other oil. Mix the ratio of your oil to manufacture specs. If not mix it your way the same all the time and have your equipment tuned to your mix. Equipment will lean(less gas more oil carbon build up) or richen(less oil more gas not enough lube) depending on your mix. Small engines might not be as finicky but my race gas feed trx250r atv has taught me alot on 2strokes over the years.


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## smokinj (Aug 4, 2011)

oilstinks said:
			
		

> i read somewhere from a husky dealer that they see less piston scoreing on the stihl ultra hp than any other oil. Mix the ratio of your oil to manufacture specs. If not mix it your way the same all the time and have your equipment tuned to your mix. Equipment will lean(less gas more oil carbon build up) or richen(less oil more gas not enough lube) depending on your mix. Small engines might not be as finicky but my race gas feed trx250r atv has taught me alot on 2strokes over the years.



yea, for me 50:1 on a 122cc saw milling is not enough even though they say it is I run 40:1. Tuning doesn't change from 50:1 to 40:1. You can pretty much look at any saw turning 12.5k rpms and up as a racing engine.


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## DuckDog (Aug 13, 2011)

I'v been running Amsoil Sabre @ 80:1 in my saw, trimmer and boat for years. No issues at all. Best part is 1 mix for everything 2 stroke.


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## Kenster (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm always afraid I'm going to grab a 40:1 bottle for my saw mix instead of a 50:1.  Will it make much difference in the operation of the saw OR potential wear and damage?

MS390 with muffler mod.


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## wood-fan-atic (Aug 13, 2011)

Stihl Ultra. No substitutes. No problems.


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## MasterMech (Aug 13, 2011)

Kenster said:
			
		

> I'm always afraid I'm going to grab a 40:1 bottle for my saw mix instead of a 50:1.  Will it make much difference in the operation of the saw OR potential wear and damage?
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The only ill effects I see that causing would be extra smoke and maybe some slight carbon build up.  I don't see you killing an otherwise healthy saw.


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## Kenster (Aug 13, 2011)

I guess it's better to have a little too much oil than not enough.     Another worry is when I have the little bottle that is made to mix one gallon and I am pouring gas from a five gallon can into my one gallon saw gas can.  It's hard to determine exactly a gallon so the mix might not be perfect.  I don't suppose this is critical as long as I'm really close?


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## MasterMech (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm anal with mix ratio. My routine goes a little like this... Add .5 gallons of gas to my 1.25 gallon can, dump 1 2.6oz bottle of mix oil in (50:1), then add gas to the mix bottle to grab all the oil inside, dump that in the can and top off to 1.0 gallons.

Next time your at the  gas station, fill your can with 1.0 gallons and use a marker to mark the level.  Easiest way to double check against bad pump meters and makes it easier to fill out of another can.

Yeah I suppose if your close your not going to blow anything up.  Better  to err on the conservative side tho.


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## Kenster (Aug 13, 2011)

My heavy plastic gas can has a  mark on the outside to show one gallon, but the plastic is so thick you can't see through it tell exactly where the gas level is inside.  Maybe I should make myself a dip stick.


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## MasterMech (Aug 13, 2011)

I have a mega bright LED flashlight that works well for that purpose. Shine it inside the filler neck.  Small enough to toss in the glove box in the trucks.


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## CTYank (Aug 14, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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No-load speed is not quite the same thing as speed under load. Some few thou off.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 14, 2011)

Kenster said:
			
		

> I'm always afraid I'm going to grab a 40:1 bottle for my saw mix instead of a 50:1. * Will it make much difference in the operation of the saw OR potential wear and damage?*
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None whatsoever.  I buy AvGas 5 gallons at a time so for sheer convenience I dump a pint in the can which makes 40:1.  Been doing it for years.
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## Thistle (Aug 14, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> My routine goes a little like this... Add .5 gallons of gas to my 1.25 gallon can, dump 1 2.6oz bottle of mix oil in (50:1), then add gas to the mix bottle to grab all the oil inside, dump that in the can and top off to 1.0 gallons.



That's exactly how I've done it for years.Add a bit of gas to the empty oil bottle,shake it good,add that to the 1/2 gallon mixed then top it off & shake again.Do the same procedure when mixing the occasional 2.5 gallon batch.Just use the same Husky Premium oil in the 6.4oz bottle.


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## jharkin (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't have nearly the experience running saws as a lot of guys here but I will throw in my vote.  I have settled on using plain old Penzoil air cooled at 32:1 in everything.

Reason... One of my other hobbies is flying big gas powered remote control airplanes. One of the airfields I flew out of we shared with an ultralight club. Those guys depend on their engine running right to get home in one piece and they all used either Amsoil or Penzoil. If Penzoil is good enough for an airplane I figure its good enough for for tools.


Since there seems to be some real oil geeks here you guys might find this interesting..  This guy tested a half dozen oils and then tore down the motor each time and documented each oils effect on carbon build up, piston scuffing, run temperature, etc
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm


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## smokinj (Aug 22, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

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880 is a toque monster 460 on the other hand is tune to 14.5  :cheese:


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## turbocruiser (Aug 23, 2011)

Can I change the thread just slightly to ask about the recently released Stihl Moto Mix

http://www.stihldealer.net/stihlmotomix-dealer-_yraje.aspx

My main problem is that I really never need more than 1 gallon at a time and because of all the added ethanol around here gasoline won't stay fresh for long.  I may actually "save" some money with not wasting stale gasoline or worse off yet stale gasoline/oil mix however at almost $8 per quart that might be my imagination!  Thanks.  

Mods:  If this is more appropriate for another thread altogether, please feel free to delete this.  Thanks.


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## MasterMech (Aug 23, 2011)

turbocruiser said:
			
		

> Can I change the thread just slightly to ask about the recently released Stihl Moto Mix
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I'm seeing these pre-mixed fuels popping up at different shops here too.  I have no experience using them myself but haven't heard any negatives other than it's very expensive to use.  If you can't stand the thought of using E10 gasoline/ethanol in your 2-cycle equipment then this would be my first recomendation.  I don't encourage folks to use 100LL AvGas in their equipment because of the lead content and the extra octane is unnecessary. Remember that new equipment is coming out with stratocharged engines (kind of like EGR for 2-strokes) and catalytic mufflers.  AvGas will poison those mufflers and the lead deposits in the engines aren't helpful either. Plus 100LL AvGas is illegal in anything other than an aircraft and expensive to boot.

FWIW I have had good results using Stihl's HP Ultra Synthetic oil mixed with E10 gasoline and storing it in the can and the machine for months at a time.  I mix 1 gallon at a time and it usually lasts me for a few weeks unless I'm cutting wood or blowing leaves.  My BR600 sees maybe 1 tank of fuel all summer and knock on wood, no fuel storage issues yet.

I think the pre-mixed fuels are going to be a fad that will either never really take off or go away altogether. $8 a quart is $16 a gallon, holy wallet-shock batman! Not really a viable option if you burn much of the stuff.  The real fix to the ethanol "problem" is the manufacturers need to ensure the materials in the fuel system are alchohol compatible.  Especially in recent years, even the European manufacturer's awareness of E10/rubber compatibility issues in North America has been improved and as a result their have been fewer and fewer issues in new machines.  Now if only we could make "E10 ready" Gasket kits for older carb's we'd be all set.


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## Thistle (Aug 23, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> $8 a quart is $16 a gallon



Actually there are 4 quarts to a gallon. So that'd be $32 instead. :bug:


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 24, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

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I've been putting 100LL AvGas in all of my equipment (dirtbikes, chainsaws, lawn mower, pressure washer, ect) for about 8 years with no ill effect.  Unless you consider easier starting, quicker revving, and never gumming up a carb ill effects.  As for cost - it's about a buck per gallon more than premium around here.


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## MasterMech (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not disputing the fact that your equipment may run great on the stuff. In fact I'm sure the bikes are lovin' it!  However, newer technologies are coming down the pike and 100LL WILL poison catalyst mufflers.  None of this changes the fact that it's still illegal to run in anything other than aircraft.


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## MasterMech (Aug 24, 2011)

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That's right. My mistake.  :red:


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 24, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> I'm not disputing the fact that your equipment may run great on the stuff. In fact I'm sure the bikes are lovin' it!  However, newer technologies are coming down the pike and 100LL WILL poison catalyst mufflers.  *None of this changes the fact that it's still illegal to run in anything other than aircraft*.



Actually, it's perfectly legal to run in anything that's not plated


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## NextEndeavor (Aug 25, 2011)

Ten years ago an old small Toro snow blower bit the dust, seized up. Lawn mower repair shop said too much oil actully can "overfire" the little two stoke.  (I fessed up to likely adding oil twice cause couldn't remember if put it in when filling the one gallon container). The thing was essentially at end of life anyway with worn out flappers. Moral of story: follow manufacturers recommendation!


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