# Fall means Hard Cider



## pen (Oct 12, 2010)

I've got a batch going now.  Winter will be about over by the time I get into it.  Always something nice to look forward too.







pen


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## wood spliter (Oct 12, 2010)

Hard cider??  Is that some kind of still?  Looks real cool.


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## BucksCoBernie (Oct 12, 2010)

nice. I have 6 gallons clearing. Will be ready around thanksgiving, christmas if i want to wait that long haha. Is that a better bottle carboy?


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## pen (Oct 12, 2010)

BucksCoBernie said:
			
		

> nice. I have 6 gallons clearing. Will be ready around thanksgiving, christmas if i want to wait that long haha. Is that a better bottle carboy?



That name sounds awfully familiar so I'd imagine, but I'm not sure.  Where I've got it doing its business, I can't see under it to read the bottom right now.  I inherited it from a good friend so it's whatever he used.

Do you have a set time you let yours run for before you rack it?  Or do you just let it work till you feel like getting back to it.

pen


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## pen (Oct 12, 2010)

wood spliter said:
			
		

> Hard cider??  Is that some kind of still?  Looks real cool.



Not a still just a glass carboy w/ an airlock on the top.  I did my part mixing it up, now I just need my fungi friends to do the rest of the work.  

pen


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## SolarAndWood (Oct 12, 2010)

Great pic, reminded me to check on the two we have going.  That will keep you warm as winter is winding down.


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## jeff_t (Oct 12, 2010)

That's not a Better Bottle, it's a glass carboy. I wish I knew how to post pics from my phone, or you would see mine full of a rockin' IPA ready to bottle. I just finished bottling the other half of a ten gallon batch. 
Better Bottles really are nice, especially if you are clumsy like me, or have small children. 
I like to sit back and admire five and a half cases of a just bottled batch of beer, as well as a cord of just stacked freshly split wood. With a pint, of course.


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## pen (Oct 15, 2010)

jeff_t said:
			
		

> That's not a Better Bottle, it's a glass carboy. I wish I knew how to post pics from my phone, or you would see mine full of a rockin' IPA ready to bottle. I just finished bottling the other half of a ten gallon batch.
> Better Bottles really are nice, especially if you are clumsy like me, or have small children.
> I like to sit back and admire five and a half cases of a just bottled batch of beer, as well as a cord of just stacked freshly split wood. With a pint, of course.



Ok, the better bottles are plastic aren't they.  I was just looking at them at the shop the other day.  That's why I recognized the name.

I do beer but do them in 2 gal batches usually with the Mr. Beer stuff.  For how easy it is, the product is quite good.  I'm not saying that it's as great as traditional methods (since it is the brownie box mix of beer making) but for the few minutes it takes versus the few hours using traditional practices, it's damn nice.

pen


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## pegasus (Oct 15, 2010)

I need your recipe, I have a big tree full of sweet apples and I enjoy I good hard cider.


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## Freeheat (Oct 15, 2010)

Making hard cider do you bring the wert to temp  for a period of time then the yeast ?? Looks great wish I had all my beer equipment.


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## billb3 (Oct 15, 2010)

looks just like my carboy  of  pear wine
except  mine is a bit clearer in the middle


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## lukem (Oct 15, 2010)

I've seriously got to learn how to make that.  I put 22 gallons of cider in the freezer about a month back (and gave another 10 away), so I have no shortage of cider.


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## Adios Pantalones (Oct 15, 2010)

Very cool.  I haven't made it in 10 years, but have some 10 year old "New England strength" cider in the basement.  Too smooth, and 9% alcohol.  I cut it 50/50 with fresh cider in a punch bowl, but everyone gets slammed on it because it's so smooth.


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## timfromohio (Oct 16, 2010)

I have a batch going in the basement right now - it's technically a mead, based on honey content, and should finish out at 13%-14%.


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 16, 2010)

Makes me thirsty just looking at the pictures. 

Around here there are very few apples this year. We got 7 apples total this year. It seems we had a hard freeze just at the wrong time. I feared for the peaches but they were enough past full blossom and we ended up with lots of them. Those 7 apples did taste good though.


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## northwinds (Oct 16, 2010)

Looks good.  I used to make a double carboy batch each fall but lost my apple supply when we moved this spring.

I'm planning out my new orchard to plant next spring.  Cider will be a few seasons away.


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## pen (Oct 19, 2010)

I use 1 lb of honey per gallon of cider.  I start w/ cold / cool cider and only warm as small amount as necessary to get the honey to dissolve and add when the carboy is about 3/4 full, then top it off.  If you start w/ hot cider in there as it cools, it will be drawing in in backwards through the air lock.  If you start w/ cold cider, it will look like it is bubbling as it warms up then allows the yeast to take action.

I don't add yeast to mine just use whatever may have been in the cider.  As such this batch will probably take about 6 months.  That time could probably be dropped to about 2 months if an outside yeast source was added.

Many people I know start w/ this as a base recipe then go from there.  Most everyone agrees that it should be racked in about a month to 6 weeks time.  At that point, some people say to just let it go as it is.  Others say to top it off w/ more cider / honey or more cider or apple juice, etc.  Some people rack more than once / some people add raisins / etc.

I'm kinda thinking that this year I'm going to rack it 2 - 3 times, and add more cider and honey so that I can stop this in a few months by having a high enough alcohol content to do away w/ the yeast and yet be able to maintain some sweetness (having sugar that can't be consumed since they are all dead) so that's it's not too dry.

My mood will determine how I finish it out.  

pen


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## Highbeam (Oct 19, 2010)

I see you left nearly no head space. Does the cider not get a foam head on it like beer does? I purposely use the big 6.5 gallon carboy for a 5 gallon beer batch for just this reason. 11 days ago we bottled 5 gallons of blackberry wheat ale made from 5.5 pounds of our blackberries. This last batch was either going to be the blackberry wheat or my first try at a hard sparkling cider. I didn't think it took so long to make the cider.


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## pen (Oct 19, 2010)

If I were to have added yeast, then I would have left a lot of head space.  Since I'm using whatever was available naturally in the cider the fermentation takes place much slower and doesn't work up as much.  I think it crawled up maybe 3/4 of an inch, but that is it.  

I haven't done beer since May.  I'll have to get it going again now that fall is coming.  I have never used blackberry's but had great luck w/ boisenberries.  That sounds like some good suds.  Wish I could share one w/ ya.

pen


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## begreen (Oct 20, 2012)

You folks have inspired me to try this myself, but now I am a little concerned we started off wrong because the instructions I just read say that we should have added pectic enzyme to the pulp before pressing the apples. Can this be done post pressing to the juice?

I have enough cider to do 2 batches, so I could do a yeast added batch and a natural yeast batch. That would make like 10 gallons of cider. Is that risky business for a neophyte? Seems like a lot of brew to consume.


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## northwinds (Oct 20, 2012)

begreen said:


> You folks have inspired me to try this myself, but now I am a little concerned we started off wrong because the instructions I just read say that we should have added pectic enzyme to the pulp before pressing the apples. Can this be done post pressing to the juice?
> 
> I have enough cider to do 2 batches, so I could do a yeast added batch and a natural yeast batch. That would make like 10 gallons of cider. Is that risky business for a neophyte? Seems like a lot of brew to consume.


 
I've never added pectin enzyme either pre or post pressing. The enzymes help break apart the pectin, making more sugars available to the yeast (either natural or commercial), inducing increased fermentation and leading to faster clearing of the cider. If you keep your cider long enough, it will usually clear up on its own. I've never worried about whether my cider is clear or not, so long as it tastes good. But the answer to your question is that it can be done post pressing. I've never heard of it being added to the pulp.

Personally, I wouldn't try a natural yeast batch. When a homebrewer has a bad batch, it's almost always because a wild or natural yeast has overcome the pure strain of commercial yeast. Some natural yeast will create a flavor that is good, but others can produce a sour, unpleasant flavor. Why take a chance on a bunch of tasty apple juice?

A lot of commercial yeasts will produce a really dry cider with high alcohol content. I starting using Wyeast 1056, which is what is used for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. The yeast doesn't do well at higher alcohol levels, so the yeast dies off while leaving some nice residual sugar in the cider and a lower alcohol
level.

If your cider is good, you won't have trouble finding people to help you consume it.


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## pen (Oct 20, 2012)

I've never added enzyme, also, I suggest leaving more headspace than what is shown in that picture at the top of this thread


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## Pallet Pete (Oct 20, 2012)

pen said:


> Ok, the better bottles are plastic aren't they.  I was just looking at them at the shop the other day.  That's why I recognized the name.
> 
> I do beer but do them in 2 gal batches usually with the Mr. Beer stuff.  For how easy it is, the product is quite good.  I'm not saying that it's as great as traditional methods (since it is the brownie box mix of beer making) but for the few minutes it takes versus the few hours using traditional practices, it's damn nice.
> 
> pen


You know I do either depending on what I feel like usually Norfolk, munitions or coopers. For traditional I use brewers best usually and to be honest the extract tasts really good if you age it properly as good if not better than traditional beer process.
That cider looks good pen that's one thing I have not tried hard cider maybe I will soon.

Pete


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## pen (Oct 20, 2012)

This year we used 1lb of honey (goldenrod) and 1/2 lb white sugar per gallon. Last year we did 1lb honey and 1/4lb white sugar. We were happy with last year's, but figured we'd add a little more sugar for our tiny friends to feast on.

Just racked it the other night and we were very happy with how it's coming. Once we get it where we like it, I will add a stop agent this year. Last year we didn't and it dried out more than what we wanted come spring.

Really, we're making apple wine since we let it run until clear. We'll bottle some without the stop agent in 22oz beer bottles to go fizzy (cizer) probably next time we rack. The rest we'll let run longer.

We also did a test gallon each adding raspberries, blackberries, and pear. Also, I use champagne yeast now as well.

The operation is growing


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## begreen (Oct 20, 2012)

That's impressive! We're launching carboy #1 tomorrow. Today I added pectin, yeast nutrients and 5 ground-up campden tablets to the mix. Tomorrow it goes into the big bottle after I pitch the yeast. I'm using champagne yeast on this first batch. These were sweet apples. Without added sugar I'm reading 1057 sp. gr..  Fingers crossed, hope it works.

Keep me posted Pen. I want to know how the test batches come out too.


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## pen (Oct 20, 2012)

We used UV pasturized cider instead of raw from a local orchard so we haven't used the tablets to start, I just buy the sodium metabisulfite in a bulk bag and use an ounce per gallon of water for sterilization purposes, and 1/4 tea per 5 gal or so to end things when the time is right.

For wine, beer, etc, many folks use a hydrometer to decide when what is what. For our purposes, we just taste things when we feel it time to rack and make a decision based upon that since cider varies so much from year to year.

Of the first tastes while racking, we found the raspberries added to the cider to be the best addition. A classic addition is raisins. However, after sampling a few ciders other folks have made with them, I wasn't impressed at all (ended up with a plastic like taste IMO). Maybe it was their method, don't know, I love raisins, but it just didn't work for the ciders I've tried.

That first batch pictured in this thread from '10 had no added yeast, I just raw cider and honey. It wound up OK. The taste was tart, which I liked, but gave me heartburn after just a few onces. However, everyone's tastes differ, my cousin and wife who make their own wine LOVED that first year batch and mock me for straying from it.  That said, the regulars who also try our experiments, like the changes we've made from the first year.  To each their own.

pen


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## northwinds (Oct 21, 2012)

Looks great, Pen. I'm way jealous at that beautiful dark cider. Apple cider is scarce and costly in Wisconsin this year, due to a late freeze wiping out much of the apple crop.  I was so desperate that I bought a $6 gallon at Costco.  I planted three apple trees this spring at our new property, but it will be years before I'll see my own cider.


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2012)

Yes, it's inspiring. I'm going to get some gallon glass bottles and start playing around with some smaller batches this winter so that by next summer I can take advantage of our bountiful fruits.


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## woodchip (Oct 21, 2012)

We love making hard cider over here, but this year had been a poor year for apples. We got a cold snap in Spring during the blossom, it was too cold for the bees to get out and do their stuff.

Makes you realise how important bees are for a lot of foods and drinks........


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## pen (Oct 21, 2012)

begreen said:


> Yes, it's inspiring. I'm going to get some gallon glass bottles and start playing around with some smaller batches this winter so that by next summer I can take advantage of our bountiful fruits.


 
That's a great approach. I drank a bunch of cheap Carlo Rossi wine (12.99 for 4 liters) to get the glass jugs. You can even use store bought cider if you like, just make sure it does not contain any preservatives. Being pasteurized is OK though, even though the sugars will be changed a bit by heat pasteurization, the yeast don't care.

I have a buddy that makes a killer wine out of Welches Concord grape juice   Once you start playing, the sky is the limit so long as a few basic tenants (mainly related to the lack of preservatives, sterile technique, constant temp) are met.

pen


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Oct 21, 2012)

I enjoyed mine very much last year, and was able to give a bunch for the holidays.   This year I started graduate school and all fun stuff is on hold     Enjoy!


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## Todd 2 (Oct 21, 2012)

Know I know what kind of sauce brings out the the Cows, Sasquashes and Baboons !


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## begreen (Oct 22, 2012)

Hey Kath, that's great that you also made a batch. Some of the best homemade I every had was by a biology prof at Western WA State. It was dandelion raspberry and delightful.  I want to try a few different yeasts out too. Kath and Pen, what are your favorites for fruit ciders/wines and why?


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## corey21 (Oct 22, 2012)

Looks good.nice work pen.


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## pen (Oct 22, 2012)

begreen said:


> Hey Kath, that's great that you also made a batch. Some of the best homemade I every had was by a biology prof at Western WA State. It was dandelion raspberry and delightful. I want to try a few different yeasts out too. Kath and Pen, what are your favorites for fruit ciders/wines and why?


 
Some years back, I had some great homemade elderberry wine.  My grandfather used to make dandylion, and rhubarb wine as well.  Each were very good, the rhubarb wine I remember having a numbing effect on the mouth which was a bit odd, but didn't take away from the drink.

pen


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## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2012)

what sort of temperature do you let that ferment at?


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## jeff_t (Oct 22, 2012)

pen said:


> We'll bottle some without the stop agent in 22oz beer bottles to go fizzy (cizer) probably next time we rack.


 
I have thought about this. I read somewhere about back-sweetening until you get the taste you want, bottling and letting it sit for a day or two, then checking carbonation levels. After you have the carbonation you desire, the bottles are then warm pasteurized to stop bottle conditioning and avoid bottle bombs. I remember reading about this, but I don't remember where. It would also allow a sweeter finished product. I don't know how much I would like a dry, sparkling cider.

Just bottling it is a crap shoot. You don't know what fermentables are left, and you may end up with stuff that is way over- or under-carbed, if nothing blows up.


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## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2012)

which is better Woodchuck or Hornesby?


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## jeff_t (Oct 22, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> which is better Woodchuck or Hornesby?



Angry Orchard


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## Danno77 (Oct 22, 2012)

jeff_t said:


> Angry Orchard


I don't believe you. Send me some so that I can see for myself.


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

I have an angry orchard hat. Mmmm, good stuff.

Ferment at 70 just like non-lager, beer.

I use nottingham ale yeast. I dno't like wine and want the cider to burp like a beer.

To avoid the bottle bombs, you let the cider ferment until dry and then add a non-fermentable sweetener plus the appropriate amount of corn sugar to get carbonation. I use Xylitol.

Follow these directions.

http://makinghardcider.com/


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## Pallet Pete (Oct 22, 2012)

I have a half gallon of cider in the fridge that cost 7 dollars ! I guess i am gonna be a lightweight and drink it non alcoholic 

Pete


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## osagebow (Oct 22, 2012)

Great post. Takes me back to my cider making days in college at an orchard near Shippensburg, PA. Chipped, pressed and delivered a few thousand gallons before the pasteuriztion rules changed. 

Fermented some with spectacular results in first batch, but crappy wild takeovers in 2 others. Think I remember using campden tablets, and champagne yeast maybe. Got a well-producing summer rambo / Gdelicious / Gsmith tree. Gotta get me a fruit press.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 23, 2012)

Danno77 said:


> which is better Woodchuck or Hornesby?


 
I didn't particularly like Hornesby . . . I found it a bit dry and bitter vs. Woodchuck (regular stuff) which is more sweet. I haven't had an Angry Orchard yet.


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## timfromohio (Oct 23, 2012)

Several have asked - no added temp. necessary to get cider going - just like wine.  I put crushed up campden tablets in mine for 24 hours prior to adding additional fermentables and yeast.  If you search my posts you'll find some recipes I have used in the past.  I have one batch going now with a dumpload of brown sugar and honey - using a Champagne yeast.  Will keep one warm in the winter ...


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## begreen (Oct 23, 2012)

Hey tim, I will dig up your old thread. I did the same with the campden tablets. Though I may be going conservative, I was told to not try for high alcohol volume on the first batch because the results can end up not tasting so hot. with that caveat in mind I added 2.5 cups of corn sugar to bring it up to 1.060 sp gr. from 1.057, also using champagne yeast.  It's merrily perking away in the carboy at room temp, passing about a bubble every .5 secs., so the yeast seems happy. When bottling I think I will do some still and some back carbonated. I'm also going to make a smaller 1 gallon batch with garden raspberries based on Pen's recommendation.


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## timfromohio (Oct 24, 2012)

begreen - please report out on the batch with raspberries - sounds very tasty. 

Last year we had a neighbor who let us gather as many pears from his two full-size pear trees as we wanted - my family gathered well over 100 pounds (ate fresh, made freezer jam, all sorts of pear muffins/cakes, etc.).  A coworker also gathered in excess of 100 pounds and made Perry - it was awesome.  So, all of you folks reading this thread might consider trying Perry as well.  Same idea as cider, just use pressed pear juice.

I've also read about "Peachy" - again, same concept but from pressed peach juice - anybody try this?


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## Highbeam (Oct 24, 2012)

There is a commercial hard pear juice beverage available in my area. I think it is "Spire" brand and is very tasty and crisp. Pear juice is a great base.


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## begreen (Oct 25, 2012)

Good to know. We have lots of pears.


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