# Thermal Storage Tanks---where?



## trumpeterb (Dec 13, 2011)

Hey everyone,
I think this is the last year that my Eko is going to be inside.  We are talking about converting some or all of our unfinished space into living space, and part of that process would be moving the Eko to an outside shed or building.  If I am going to go through the trouble of doing this, I would probably also add thermal storage...I currently do not have any and I idle a lot.  I have seen many people post about using propane tanks for their storage.  Do you think this is the best and most economical option?  Where would you suggest I look for storage tanks in Western Pennsylvania?  I can't seem to find them anywhere around me.  Perhaps there are better options than these tanks?  I looked at some tanks online, and they were rather expensive, at least I thought so.  Whacha think?


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 13, 2011)

trumpeterb said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> I think this is the last year that my Eko is going to be inside.  We are talking about converting some or all of our unfinished space into living space, and part of that process would be moving the Eko to an outside shed or building.  If I am going to go through the trouble of doing this, I would probably also add thermal storage...I currently do not have any and I idle a lot.  I have seen many people post about using propane tanks for their storage.  Do you think this is the best and most economical option?  Where would you suggest I look for storage tanks in Western Pennsylvania?  I can't seem to find them anywhere around me.  Perhaps there are better options than these tanks?  I looked at some tanks online, and they were rather expensive, at least I thought so.  Whacha think?


You can call air compressor suppliers & see if they have some used tanks, these should be ASME rated. Put a wanted ad in Craigslist for propane tanks, its free. If you have the space I would stand them upright so they have a smaller boundary layer between the hot & cold water. Good luck, Randy


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## EffectaBoilerUser (USA) (Dec 13, 2011)

Yes, you definately want water storage tanks with a gasification boiler.

As you have probably noticed, without storage the boiler will idle a lot when the house is not calling for heat and this will cause a greater amount of creosote in the primary chamber of your EKO boiler (this normally causes the bypass flap to stick to the boiler) along with a creosote build up in your chimney.

With storage, the boiler runs wide open (hot and clean) until the storage is up to 180/190 at which point the wood in the boiler should be pretty much consumed and go out.

The house then pumps the hot water from the tank, through the house and back to the tank for a period of time (in my house this is approx. 24 hours when the outside temp is in the 30's and 15 hours when the outside temp is in the teens). When the tank gets to 130/140 it time to make another fire in the boiler and heat the tank back up to 180/190.

Regarding tanks, I would only look at used propane tanks and I would position the tanks in a vertical manner if possible. I live in Michigan and have refurbished used propane tanks with fittings for many boiler customers and have no problem locating used propane tanks. You should expect to pay $250-$300 for a 500 gallon used propane tank in good condition.

If your boiler is a 40 kw boiler I would recommend a minimum of 1,000 gallons of storage and if its a 60 kw I would recommend at 1,500-2,000 gallons for storage.

Brian


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## Clarkbug (Dec 13, 2011)

When I picked up my Varm this summer from Smokeless Heat (In Lebanon, PA) they had a few used propane tanks there for sale that could be used for storage.  Might be worth giving them a call.  No idea what part of PA  you are located in, so it might not be worth the trouble to go that far.


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## Gasifier (Dec 13, 2011)

A couple of nice things about a used ASME rated air tank are:

1. Already clean. No need to clean with solution, rinse, etc.
2. Ports for piping are already there. Usually just add fittings. So no cutting and welding in new ports, etc. 
3. ASME rated. Something that gives you piece of mind about the possibility of leaks. Shouldn't be any if fitted correctly.

One down side is they will cost you more. It took me a while, but I found a used 400 gallon ASME tank for a little over 600. 

Here is an example of one, In PA. A little on the small side though. But if you piped three of them together. They are easier to move around, get through a normal size door,etc. Something for you to consider. Used equipment sellers will usually strap it to a pallet for you and ship it fairly cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Air-co...614?pt=BI_Air_Compressors&hash=item4ab1cdc98e

Here are two larger ones. Although expensive. Maybe someone could get a good price on both of them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRUNNER-ENG...653?pt=BI_Air_Compressors&hash=item5ae3f7218d

Here is another. Again, a little expensive. But if you call them, they might adjust the price with the right offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-compres...036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20bfcbb1bc


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## dogwood (Dec 13, 2011)

If you use the search function  there are at least one or two older posts that give the locations of places in Western Pennsylvania that sell used propane tanks at reasonable prices.


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## McKraut (Dec 14, 2011)

trumpeterb said:
			
		

> Hey everyone,
> I think this is the last year that my Eko is going to be inside.  We are talking about converting some or all of our unfinished space into living space, and part of that process would be moving the Eko to an outside shed or building.  If I am going to go through the trouble of doing this, I would probably also add thermal storage...I currently do not have any and I idle a lot.  I have seen many people post about using propane tanks for their storage.  Do you think this is the best and most economical option?  Where would you suggest I look for storage tanks in Western Pennsylvania?  I can't seem to find them anywhere around me.  Perhaps there are better options than these tanks?  I looked at some tanks online, and they were rather expensive, at least I thought so.  Whacha think?



 Hello,

 I found quite a few places to get tanks. The closest, and most expensive, was the local propane dealer. Check with local farm co-ops. The ones in our area often sell used propane tanks to members -- one of the neighbors I let farm our place said he would be able to get one for me if I wanted -- most were not very clean. Last place is one of the dealers that sell boilers. Best price I found from a dealer was at smokeless heat. try this link 

http://www.smokelessheat.com/productpage.aspx?pid=28
>
> http://www.smokelessheat.com/productpage.aspx?pid=29

 Their prices weren't bad and the tanks are cleaned and ready to be hooked up.
 Where are you in WPA? I am in Fulton County


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## trumpeterb (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks for the help everyone.  I am in Westwrn PA, less than a mile from the Ohio boarder, and midway between Pittsburgh and erie.  How hard is it to plumb these things into a system?  If I string 2 tanks together side by side, how do I ensure that the hot water circulates between the tanks?  I would assume I would have the water exit one tank to the boiler and return to the other tank from the boiler.  Am I off base?


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## Clarkbug (Dec 14, 2011)

There are a number of piping configurations that will work for you, it really depends on the other parts of your system.  Posting a schematic here would be pretty helpful, and will help the gurus figure out the best way for you to pipe them up.


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## huffdawg (Dec 14, 2011)

McKraut said:
			
		

> trumpeterb said:
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Mine were not very clean insde when  I got them. I tried bleach in them but it didnt seem to work that great. then I used a pressure washer and that  cleaned out the inside nice and shiney .  But it took a lot of time to do a good job.

Huff.


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## wsurfer49 (Dec 14, 2011)

There used to be a man selling used propane tanks for a very good price, $200 or so for 500 gallon.  He seemed to have a pretty good supply too.  I can't remember if it was on craigslist or where he was advertising.  Sorry I can't provide more info.  I live in AZ so even at that price it was of no use to me.  Try searching the web if you can't find what you need locally.  

Good luck!


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## trumpeterb (Dec 15, 2011)

So I found a place that sells 500 gallon tanks for around 900 apiece, including installed ports, and 1000 gallon tanks for 1200 including installed ports.  It would be a better deal to buy the 1000 gallon tank.  Aside from it being harder to move, are there any other benefits to either option?  Not having to pipe two tanks together is a benefit I would think.  Any others?


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## Clarkbug (Dec 15, 2011)

Thats a huge cost difference, so its worth it to go with the 1000 if you have the space for it.  Also, you are correct, that the lack of having to pipe up two tanks will make it easier to be sure you are getting the stratification you want.


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## dara (Dec 15, 2011)

There is a company in Uniontown, Pa. called Tank Solutions. The phone number is 724/437/7683 . I think the young man I delt with was named Brian. They loaded two 250 gallon tanks in my pickup for $200 a piece. they are still setting where I dropped them two springs ago, maybe hook up this spring.

Take care


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## Duetech (Dec 15, 2011)

Non pressurized is another option and those tanks you can build yourself. However there is another load of plumbing variations that need to be considered with non pressurized. Europeans use an atmospherical pressurized version which is kind of like a hybrid of the American systems. Two old fuel oil tanks can provide a very suitable "skin" for a non p tank once cut cleaned and welded. Do a google search for used propane if you want to go pressurized or pm to Tom from Maine to start researching  non p systems. I am opting for more of the non p because I can build at my pace physically and financially.


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## mikefrommaine (Dec 16, 2011)

Cave2k said:
			
		

> Non pressurized is another option and those tanks you can build yourself. However there is another load of plumbing variations that need to be considered with non pressurized. Europeans use an atmospherical pressurized version which is kind of like a hybrid of the American systems. Two old fuel oil tanks can provide a very suitable "skin" for a non p tank once cut cleaned and welded. Do a google search for used propane if you want to go pressurized or pm to Tom from Maine to start researching  non p systems. I am opting for more of the non p because I can build at my pace physically and financially.



Did you buy or build your own tank?


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## Duetech (Dec 16, 2011)

mikefrommaine said:
			
		

> Cave2k said:
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No I have not yet built a tank but I am collecting materials and ruminating ideas for plumbing and building construction. My boiler will be in a remote location about 80' from the house next to my current boiler.


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## dogwood (Dec 16, 2011)

This is a link to one place in Pennsylvania. I don't know where in PA.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/40155/ 

Try this link too:  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/19547/


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