# tempwood stoves



## Joe Fire maker

Hello everyone I am currently making tempwood stoves... we did go out of business but are slowly returning im starting the ul process and ive been burning the tempwood onsite for testing i am making firebricks for purchase please call with questions or feedback thankd Joe 413-743-0022


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## begreen

Welcome Joe. Will the new stove still be downdraft? EPA approved?


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## Joe Fire maker

Any info you could give me on getting started again please feel free to help any info will be great .


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## Joe Fire maker

It will be a downdraft and I am currently going thru ul listings and looking into epa testing


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## realstihl

My cousin used one of those back in the seventies. Good concept but plain looking. Probably not meant for looks anyway.


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## rowerwet

joe, anything going on now? I would love to see one of these stoves in my current house


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## Joe Fire maker

We are in full production please call for details 413-743-0022 .
                    Thank You Joe White


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## pen

Website yet?

Also, if you are interested in advertising on the site, don't be afraid to contact Webmaster about information.

pen


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## begreen

Joe Fire maker said:
			
		

> We are in full production please call for details 413-743-0022 .
> Thank You Joe White



Yes, some more info would be great. Will this be an EPA tested and approved model or a 35:1 burner?


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## anÃ©qus

Joe Fire maker said:
			
		

> Hello everyone I am currently making tempwood stoves... we did go out of business but are slowly returning im starting the ul process and ive been burning the tempwood onsite for testing i am making firebricks for purchase please call with questions or feedback thankd Joe 413-743-0022



Hi Joe: We became aware of this great news a couple of weeks ago! You announced it on my birthday, and what a great birthday present. We currently have two and run one...the big boy. Any chance of a top-loading glass front?? You takin' orders? Need any distributors?? We're your best advertisements! No other technology makes sense to us. Good luck with the UL!


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## Fsappo

If you are really making these stoves and are interested in folks learning about them, you should keep us in the mix.  What have they been tested at?  Got a photo? Website, specs?

Not sure much to hawk your wares here, because thats what advertising is for..

But there are a bunch of us who remember the Tempwoods from 20 years ago and would love to be in the loop during their reinvention.


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## joecool85

Joe, if you don't have a website yet and are interested, let me know.  I like to work with small companies and I do inexpensive websites for them as well as family and friends.  

I'd love to see some pics.  Also, downdraft?  Does that mean this is a gasifier?


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## rscullin

www.tempwoodstoves.com is the site, and there is a diagram / photo there. It's definitely a working man's stove, a stove for the pragmatist.
They're are now on sale, pricing is around $1250 or so, I believe.
Full disclosure: I am biased; my dad used to manufacture them in the late '70s.


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## villagep

I had a Tempwood in the  '70s and '80s and loved it.  But it was an early one and had no firebrick in it.  The metal in the bottom of the stove started to get a little thin from years of burning.  For safety's sake I replaced it with a Vermont Castings non-catalytic "Defiant".  Give me the Tempwood any day of the week!!  I think it heats better, holds a fire longer, and is way safer. The Defiant often makes these scarey noises like I'm having a chimney fire, and it sometimes puffs, and blows smoke back into the house.  The Tempwood is a great stove, and I may just sell the Defiant now that I can buy a new Tempwood.  By the way, I love the look of it.


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## realstihl

My cousin had one of the early ones in the 70's. Great heater. Needs to have a glass viewing front to make it more appealing. Maybe that's next for the company.


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## Wood Heat Stoves

I used to sell Tempwoods a long time ago. I remember them being a great stove and very utilitarian, which was what most people were looking for back then. Good news you're starting back up. Hopefully will be EPA approved.


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## coalcracker

Joe Fire maker said:


> Hello everyone I am currently making tempwood stoves... we did go out of business but are slowly returning im starting the ul process and ive been burning the tempwood onsite for testing i am making firebricks for purchase please call with questions or feedback thankd Joe 413-743-0022


 


this thread sort of fell off over time, I'm just wondering, did you make these new Tempwoods, and did they pass the new EPA cert making them legal to sell in USA ?   do you have any pictures of the actual stove ?  the website looked like something in its infancy startup stage with drawn diagrams but no pictures of actual stoves.  where are we with this ? to be honest this type of stove has a lot better reports and user comments than the new catalytic and noncatalytic stoves do.  it is the only downdraft type stove with GOOD reports.  all the others have neg comments of some sort. thanks


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## Dune

Looks like they are available and UL listed as well. 

I can certainly testify to their efficiency, utility, safety and ease of use. 

By the way, Just about every fair sized welding shop on Cape Cod also makes these same stoves. They are very simple and there is also an extra large version, as well as a baffle which was never in the original. The baffle adds even more efficiency.


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## coalcracker

Dune said:


> Looks like they are available and UL listed as well.
> 
> I can certainly testify to their efficiency, utility, safety and ease of use.
> 
> By the way, Just about every fair sized welding shop on Cape Cod also makes these same stoves. They are very simple and there is also an extra large version, as well as a baffle which was never in the original. The baffle adds even more efficiency.


 



let me explain, any old stove from pre-1980 was also UL listed. today stoves have to be EPA certified, or they are illegal to sell.  making and selling a noncompliant stove from the EPA standpoint, carries serious fines  and can even lead to a prison sentence for the guy tooling it up with impunity for the laws.  the website is there but lists no prices or pictures.  sorry but I'd have to disagree with your statement without verfication from the stove maker, I don't think they are being made, because the only stoves that would pass today's strict emission laws, would be catalytic, noncatalytic secondary air reburn type, or anthracite coal stoves.

the only way to make a wood stove today that can burn dirty, is get it classified as a furnace, and the old tempwood is too small to get that exemption.

if these stoves are being made across the cape, they are taking a big risk of getting nailed for some serious EPA violations. I have relatives on the cape and have been there many times, being the type of eco-conscious area it is, I find this doubtful.  yes they may be efficient, but they have to pass a grams per hour emission test to be legal to sell to the public now.  don't take this the wrong way, I'm not a tree hugger by a long shot, if it was up to me there would be no emissions standards on anything.  but this is the law today.

if it was so easy to make a clean burning stove by just drafting it with 2 tubes downward, they would not bother installing $350 cats and fragile ceramic reburn chambers in non-cats.  They'd just put 2 cheap iron downdraft pipes on it and be done. I have 99.9% certainty that the old tempwood stove design would never pass today's stringent EPA laws, they just made them even more strict only a week ago.  The OP of this thread has not posted again since this thread, I have strong intuition this project has been deep sixed.


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## coalcracker

I checked the EPA site, Tempwood is not listed as a legal for sale EPA certified stove. Just a word to the wise, the fella who posted this would be well advised to take down the website advertising the stove !  No doubt he made some great imrpovements to the original design with better firebrick and thicker 1/4" plate.  I'd like to buy one from him !!  But in reality that website is a smoking gun of evidence for EPA to nail him for noncompliance.  We are talking big time fines 100's of thousands $$$ or higher.  Maybe jail.  It sounds like a skilled welder who used an original Tempwood as a template pattern to tool up new stoves with thicker material.  But someone has to educate him and fill him in on the fact, you just can't start making stoves today and selling them out of your garage or small shop anymore.  This is not 1980.  That would be like tooling up new cars without a cat converter and no emissions controls with a carburetor, they'd nail you to the cross for that today.  Here is the list below link.

http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

Enclosed is the list of wood stoves certified by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The EPA Certified Wood Stoves list contains information about wood stoves or wood heating appliances that have been certified by the EPA along with its manufacturer name, model name, emission rate (g/hr), heat output (btu/hr), efficiency (actual measured and estimated), and type of appliance. It also indicates whether the appliance is still being manufactured. An EPA certified wood stove or wood heating appliance has been independently tested by an accredited laboratory to determine whether it meets the particulate emissions limit of 7.5* grams per hour for non-catalytic wood stoves and 4.1* grams per hour for catalytic wood stoves. All wood heating appliances that are offered or advertised for sale in the United States are subject to the New Source Performance Standard (NSPS) for New Residential Wood Heaters under the Clean Air Act and are required to meet these emission limits.

An EPA certified wood heater can be identified by a temporary paper label attached to the front of the wood stove and a permanent metal label affixed to the back or side of the wood stove (see examples below). If you have questions regarding


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## Dune

coalcracker said:


> let me explain, any old stove from pre-1980 was also UL listed. today stoves have to be EPA certified, or they are illegal to sell.  making and selling a noncompliant stove from the EPA standpoint, carries serious fines  and can even lead to a prison sentence for the guy tooling it up with impunity for the laws.  the website is there but lists no prices or pictures.  sorry but I'd have to disagree with your statement without verfication from the stove maker, I don't think they are being made, because the only stoves that would pass today's strict emission laws, would be catalytic, noncatalytic secondary air reburn type, or anthracite coal stoves.
> 
> the only way to make a wood stove today that can burn dirty, is get it classified as a furnace, and the old tempwood is too small to get that exemption.
> 
> if these stoves are being made across the cape, they are taking a big risk of getting nailed for some serious EPA violations. I have relatives on the cape and have been there many times, being the type of eco-conscious area it is, I find this doubtful.  yes they may be efficient, but they have to pass a grams per hour emission test to be legal to sell to the public now.  don't take this the wrong way, I'm not a tree hugger by a long shot, if it was up to me there would be no emissions standards on anything.  but this is the law today.
> 
> if it was so easy to make a clean burning stove by just drafting it with 2 tubes downward, they would not bother installing $350 cats and fragile ceramic reburn chambers in non-cats.  They'd just put 2 cheap iron downdraft pipes on it and be done. I have 99.9% certainty that the old tempwood stove design would never pass today's stringent EPA laws, they just made them even more strict only a week ago.  The OP of this thread has not posted again since this thread, I have strong intuition this project has been deep sixed.



OK pal. I'll tell everyone to stop making them, LOL. 

FYI the Tempwood is a completely functional gassifier, (it was the first gassifier) I can bring any relative you want to a showroom and show them one for sale,

Two pipes pointed downward does indeed provide the same complete combustion as more modern versions, and with the added baffle, they burn even less wood than the originals.

and third, I am utterly amazed they you are basically calling me a liar and you have no idea who I am whatsoever, but that is cool too, it is entirely on you.


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## BrotherBart

If you sell 50 stoves a year or less you don't have to get it EPA certified. But don't burn the joint down with one if it isn't UL spec tested and expect the insurance company to pay ya.


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## coalcracker

Dune said:


> OK pal. I'll tell everyone to stop making them, LOL.
> 
> FYI the Tempwood is a completely functional gassifier, (it was the first gassifier) I can bring any relative you want to a showroom and show them one for sale,
> 
> Two pipes pointed downward does indeed provide the same complete combustion as more modern versions, and with the added baffle, they burn even less wood than the originals.
> 
> and third, I am utterly amazed they you are basically calling me a liar and you have no idea who I am whatsoever, but that is cool too, it is entirely on you.


 


with all the hoopla over EPA stoves today, you really want to sell non-EPA certed new stoves ?  are you for real ?
sell all the stoves you want.  when you sell stove 51, don't come crying when they slap the cuffs on you.  there's not a single person here nor this webpage site, that would condone willingly breaking the law, no matter how strongly we disagree with it. that's just stupid.  you need a reality check fella...

they have 67 smoke police in Washington State in one county, just to check chimney emissions ,and are issuing $1000 fines as I key this.  we all know how regulated Mass. and Cape Cod are.  who in their right mind is going to buy a new stove, they can eventually get nailed for dirty smoke emissions with in a place like that ?  for that matter, there's no wood to cut and burn in Cape Cod.  how much is a cord of wood there, $500 a cord ?


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## coalcracker

BrotherBart said:


> If you sell 50 stoves a year or less you don't have to get it EPA certified. But don't burn the joint down with one if it isn't UL spec tested and expect the insurance company to pay ya.


 

and what happens when you sell stove 51...with all due respect, it's not worth it.  just like playing with a basket full of rattlesnakes, sooner or later, you are going to get bit.  with the administration in charge now, and what's coming down the pike in 2016, forgettaboutit...

do you really think Hillary is going to let us all tool up our own woodstoves in the garage ?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH   no chance.


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## Dune

coalcracker said:


> I checked the EPA site, Tempwood is not listed as a legal for sale EPA certified stove. Just a word to the wise, the fella who posted this would be well advised to take down the website advertising the stove !  No doubt he made some great imrpovements to the original design with better firebrick and thicker 1/4" plate.  I'd like to buy one from him !!  But in reality that website is a smoking gun of evidence for EPA to nail him for noncompliance.  We are talking big time fines 100's of thousands $$$ or higher.  Maybe jail.  It sounds like a skilled welder who used an original Tempwood as a template pattern to tool up new stoves with thicker material.  But someone has to educate him and fill him in on the fact, you just can't start making stoves today and selling them out of your garage or small shop anymore.  This is not 1980.  That would be like tooling up new cars without a cat converter and no emissions controls with a carburetor, they'd nail you to the cross for that today.  Here is the list below link.
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf
> 
> Enclosed is the list of wood stoves certified by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The EPA Certified Wood Stoves list contains information about wood stoves or wood heating appliances that have been certified by the EPA along with its manufacturer name, model name, emission rate (g/hr), heat output (btu/hr), efficiency (actual measured and estimated), and type of appliance. It also indicates whether the appliance is still being manufactured. An EPA certified wood stove or wood heating appliance has been independently tested by an accredited laboratory to determine whether it meets the particulate emissions limit of 7.5* grams per hour for non-catalytic wood stoves and 4.1* grams per hour for catalytic wood stoves. All wood heating appliances that are offered or advertised for sale in the United States are subject to the New Source Performance Standard (NSPS) for New Residential Wood Heaters under the Clean Air Act and are required to meet these emission limits.
> 
> An EPA certified wood heater can be identified by a temporary paper label attached to the front of the wood stove and a permanent metal label affixed to the back or side of the wood stove (see examples below). If you have questions regarding



Prove that the Tempwood is not compliant. It didn't need to be upgraded to pass, it was a full on gassifier from the start, and good luck telling swamp yankees what they can or cannot do. 

It is nothing like what you say, modern gassifiers don't use catalytic converters either. It is one or the other, not both.


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## Dune

coalcracker said:


> with all the hoopla over EPA stoves today, you really want to sell non-EPA certed new stoves ?  are you for real ?
> sell all the stoves you want.  when you sell stove 51, don't come crying when they slap the cuffs on you.  there's not a single person here nor this webpage site, that would condone willingly breaking the law, no matter how strongly we disagree with it. that's just stupid.  you need a reality check fella...
> 
> they have 67 smoke police in Washington State in one county, just to check chimney emissions ,and are issuing $1000 fines as I key this.  we all know how regulated Mass. and Cape Cod are.  who in their right mind is going to buy a new stove, they can eventually get nailed for dirty smoke emissions with in a place like that ?  for that matter, there's no wood to cut and burn in Cape Cod.  how much is a cord of wood there, $500 a cord ?



Seriously? 
These shops make one or two or none of these stoves a year, and I am not one of them. 
Furthermore, they are EPA compliant by design. 

Please slow down and read what I posted. Tempwoods are efficient gassifiers. 

That is why they are so popular here, where there is "no wood", because they use the least wood of any stove available. 

For a place with no wood, I have an amazing amount in my backyard.


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## Dune

Just so you know, we have zero "smoke police" on Cape Cod, and you are extremely ignorant of both the Cape and Massachusetts as well. 

We can do things here that can't be done in any other state. That is because we are so liberal, not in spite of it.


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## coalcracker

Joe Fire maker said:


> Hello everyone I am currently making tempwood stoves... we did go out of business but are slowly returning im starting the ul process and ive been burning the tempwood onsite for testing i am making firebricks for purchase please call with questions or feedback thankd Joe 413-743-0022


 


I respect the efforts to reproduce any vintage stove and low production run quantity to keep them legal from an EPA standpoint.  These were unique stoves and worthy of being reproduced.  My concerns were, it is very well possible to sell something like that to someone in a highly regulated area, and they end up being fined for using it.  Such as Washington state.

I called the phone number on the OP, it rings ONE TIME, then stops.  It's not a valid number, at least not anymore.

I emailed the site twice, no reply.

today, the Tempwood.com website domain just popped up as being "for sale" on google for $795.

see it here

http://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=tempwood&e=com

*TempWood.com is for sale (Temp Wood)*
Click here to buy TempWood.com for *$795*
Create a blog, promote your business, or build a site for your personal use.
Your web address is memorable and uniquely your own.


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## coalcracker

Dune said:


> Seriously?
> These shops make one or two or none of these stoves a year, and I am not one of them.
> Furthermore, they are EPA compliant by design.
> 
> Please slow down and read what I posted. Tempwoods are efficient gassifiers.
> 
> That is why they are so popular here, where there is "no wood", because they use the least wood of any stove available.
> 
> For a place with no wood, I have an amazing amount in my backyard.


 


I have a relative who lives on Cape Cod all his life.  He's a commercial fisherman, for the past 30+ years.  Has his own boat. I've been there visiting many times and have stayed there for at least a month total.  It was one of the few places where I went on vacation, that I would not mind staying and living there. The summer tourist season is very crowded, but the off season is heaven to me.

It's a very SMALL place. I can drive from the bay side to ocean side in 5 minutes or less.  There's not a lot of trees on Cape Cod that you are allowed to cut, everything is state park or national park or privately owned or posted. If you heat with wood, you'd need 10-12 acres minimum to replenish what you'd burn each year.  Not many own 10 acres on Cape Cod, it's a high cost living area.  You have been or will be buying wood, period.  Whatever it costs here, double it there, as most supplies must be trucked in over the canal from the mainland.  It's already $220/cord here.  You will be paying $350-$400 a cord there.  If not now, then soon.  Or more.  I've seen posts on the net where they were paying $375/cord in New England for wood, and the posts were 5 years old.

Wood is now $750/cord in California.  See this is what happens when a central bank does QE for 5 years, it causes rampant inflation and distortions in the economy.  One can easily go through 2 cords of wood in a month.  Where's the savings ?

In the meantime, natural gas can heat your home for $250/month including the hot water, with no mess or wood to split, stack, no ashes, etc.  The decision is obvious. It's an IQ test.  At these prices wood burning is finished, unless the wood is free.  To get free wood, you usually have to own the land.  But then it's not really free, is it. Because then you have to pay the PROPERTY TAXES to keep the land.

see they have every angle covered.

I have access to free standing timber.  Over 50 acres of it, we own the land.  I can cut all I want. yet I don't use it. It would cost me equal or more than coal, once the up front support fuel costs are added in,  and I'd have to do all the work.  Then there's the time spent.  Who works for free anymore ?  Even a minimum wage job at McDonald's pays 7.50/hour.  All the time spent getting the firewood, is for zero pay, and burning gasoline in the truck and chainsaw at 3.50/gallon. Then new chains, bar oil, tires on the truck.  For what it costs for a decent chainsaw, I can heat my house for 2 years with coal.

alternate heating is slowly becoming- unaffordable !

the Tempwood stoves would never pass the new for 2014 emission tests for particulates.  it takes a cat or secondary burn chamber to pass those tests. if it did pass, it would be on the EPA list of legal stoves to buy- it's not on the list.  so that is just an incorrect statement, please see my previous post and read the EPA link.  there are no Tempwoods legal from an EPA standpoint.

I think of wood heating as a last ditch heating method for SHTF scenario- when the strip mines close, and there is no coal.  By then I'll have to protect the standing timber with a firearm so no one else takes it.  I do have a few wood stoves.  There's one in my parent's house hooked up that hasn't been burned since 1997.


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## StoveWannabe

CoalCracker, I understand your concerns, but please take a deep breath. This website is for fun, entertainment and information.


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## coalcracker

StoveWannabe said:


> CoalCracker, I understand your concerns, but please take a deep breath. This website is for fun, entertainment and information.


 


I agree...but we also have to live in the real world, not only the cyber world.  The website link, phone number, email for these new Tempwood stoves is unresponsive, it appears to be unobtainable.  Are you suggesting let the average reader assume, that these stoves are EPA legal, easily obtainable, and actually something that can be bought and used ?  This venture appears to have not come to fruition.  Do you agree, or ?

I mean, what if your son or daughter or mom clicked on the link, and tried to buy one.  Would you let them install it in their house ?  We have to be honest with ourselves here.

if not, then cat is spelled K-A-T, the earth if flat, and 1+1 = 3.  it's all in fun, entertainment, and information

i.e. the "information" has to be true.  no ?


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## StoveWannabe

coalcracker said:


> I agree...but we also have to live in the real world, not only the cyber world.  The website link, phone number, email for these new Tempwood stoves is unresponsive, it appears to be unobtainable.  Are you suggesting let the average reader assume, that these stoves are EPA legal, easily obtainable, and actually something that can be bought and used ?  This venture appears to have not come to fruition.  Do you agree, or ?
> 
> I mean, what if your son or daughter or mom clicked on the link, and tried to buy one.  Would you let them install it in their house ?  We have to be honest with ourselves here.
> 
> if not, then cat is spelled K-A-T, the earth if flat, and 1+1 = 3.  it's all in fun, entertainment,



Switch to decaf, if it appears to be unobtainable like you say, then don't worry. Nobody will buy it to "burn down their house."

I understand what the EPA is trying to do, but people for generations were burning wood before the EPA came along and not every stove installed burned down houses.
We had a non-EPA stove for years, cleaned the the chimney twice a winter and safely heated our house for years. It loved wood but the wood was free and I was free labor.


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## bobmwsc

coalcracker said:


> I respect the efforts to reproduce any vintage stove and low production run quantity to keep them legal from an EPA standpoint.  These were unique stoves and worthy of being reproduced.  My concerns were, it is very well possible to sell something like that to someone in a highly regulated area, and they end up being fined for using it.  Such as Washington state.
> 
> I called the phone number on the OP, it rings ONE TIME, then stops.  It's not a valid number, at least not anymore.
> 
> I emailed the site twice, no reply.
> 
> today, the Tempwood.com website domain just popped up as being "for sale" on google for $795.
> 
> see it here
> 
> http://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=tempwood&e=com
> 
> *TempWood.com is for sale (Temp Wood)*
> Click here to buy TempWood.com for *$795*
> Create a blog, promote your business, or build a site for your personal use.
> Your web address is memorable and uniquely your own.




I have no issues getting to the website - www.tempwoodstoves.com - no idea about contacting the manufacturer though.


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## Dune

coalcracker said:


> I have a relative who lives on Cape Cod all his life.  He's a commercial fisherman, for the past 30+ years.  Has his own boat. I've been there visiting many times and have stayed there for at least a month total.  It was one of the few places where I went on vacation, that I would not mind staying and living there. The summer tourist season is very crowded, but the off season is heaven to me.


 I am sure I know your relative since I am also a commercial fisherman with my own boat, hand have fished here since 1978. There are very few fisherman on Cape Cod that I don't know.
I was born here. 





> It's a very SMALL place. I can drive from the bay side to ocean side in 5 minutes or less.  There's not a lot of trees on Cape Cod that you are allowed to cut, everything is state park or national park or privately owned or posted. If you heat with wood, you'd need 10-12 acres minimum to replenish what you'd burn each year.  Not many own 10 acres on Cape Cod, it's a high cost living area.  You have been or will be buying wood, period.  Whatever it costs here, double it there, as most supplies must be trucked in over the canal from the mainland.  It's already $220/cord here.  You will be paying $350-$400 a cord there.  If not now, then soon.  Or more.  I've seen posts on the net where they were paying $375/cord in New England for wood, and the posts were 5 years old.


 There is only one town where this is close to true, Wellfleet, but even there it takes much longer than five minutes. This can easily be proven from anywhere in the country by a google maps search. Exaggerations of this type do not help your credibility at all. Not that you have much left at this point anyway.  Furthermore, I live in Yarmouth, but at the western end the Cape is much wider. It takes me an hour to drive to Falmouth. You are also incorrect about the National Seashore, it is entirely located on the Lower Cape. Chatham - Provincetown, the smallest segment of Cape Cod.





> Wood is now $750/cord in California.  See this is what happens when a central bank does QE for 5 years, it causes rampant inflation and distortions in the economy.  One can easily go through 2 cords of wood in a month.  Where's the savings ?



Another vast exaggeration. I burn 3 cord in an average winter, and at $4.00/ gal I would still save money, EVEN  paying $750, but that is simply not the case here. The tree guy I do welding for sells oak for $250- $300 depending upon the time of years. He has hundreds of unsold cords in his yard.

More than once, I have gotten an entire years worth of wood from one yard where someone wants trees removed, during a single weekend. The only wood I ever bought was a cord of stove length green oak, delivered for $100. Since I returned to heating exclusively with wood in 2007 I have saved untold thousands of dollars. I am self-employed, firewood (my own) is a tax free part time job for me.  I am just as opposed, if not moreso, to quantitative easing, but supply and demand drives prices, so, wrong again. Nice try though. You are quickly exposing your true purpose here.


> In the meantime, natural gas can heat your home for $250/month including the hot water, with no mess or wood to split, stack, no ashes, etc.  The decision is obvious. It's an IQ test.  At these prices wood burning is finished, unless the wood is free.  To get free wood, you usually have to own the land.  But then it's not really free, is it. Because then you have to pay the PROPERTY TAXES to keep the land.
> 
> see they have every angle covered.


 Ah, the true nature of your purpose here. By the end of this thread, you admit you burn no wood. In addition, you would use violent means to preserve "your" wood. (sorry but we belong to the land, it does not belong to us)

In this one statement you denigrate every single member of this forum. We all fail your IQ test because we burn wood. You are a paid corporate shill for fossil fuels, plain and simple. You are not the first one I have found here and exposed. Feel free to fall on your sword as the others chose to do.
Regardless, your opinion is meaningless, since you espouse the use of incredibly destructive heat sources (coal and Hyro-fracked gas) over benign and carbon neutral wood. Additionally, you do so in an argumentative and disrespectful manner.

The forum moderator already pointed out that the law disagrees with your premise, yet you continue unabated.  





> I have access to free standing timber.  Over 50 acres of it, we own the land.  I can cut all I want. yet I don't use it. It would cost me equal or more than coal, once the up front support fuel costs are added in,  and I'd have to do all the work.  Then there's the time spent.  Who works for free anymore ?  Even a minimum wage job at McDonald's pays 7.50/hour.  All the time spent getting the firewood, is for zero pay, and burning gasoline in the truck and chainsaw at 3.50/gallon. Then new chains, bar oil, tires on the truck.  For what it costs for a decent chainsaw, I can heat my house for 2 years with coal.


 Again a lie. The most expensive chainsaw I ever bought was $80. I have cut dozens of cords of wood with it. After paying taxes on minimum wage, I can make far more money cutting my own firewood, tax free. Another bold faced lie. Please stop, at this point you are embarrassing yourself with your ignorant and untrue statements. Even those who choose to go the all new route find payback in less than 2 years. 





> alternate heating is slowly becoming- unaffordable !


 Then why are you here?





> the Tempwood stoves would never pass the new for 2014 emission tests for particulates.  it takes a cat or secondary burn chamber to pass those tests. if it did pass, it would be on the EPA list of legal stoves to buy- it's not on the list.  so that is just an incorrect statement, please see my previous post and read the EPA link.  there are no Tempwoods legal from an EPA standpoint.


Again, read Brother Barts post. The EPA regulates large makers, not small, and they are UL listed, meaning you can safely use them in your house without worry of your insurance company denying benefits. You are wrong on all levels, yet you persist. Why? 





> I think of wood heating as a last ditch heating method for SHTF scenario- when the strip mines close, and there is no coal.  By then I'll have to protect the standing timber with a firearm so no one else takes it.  I do have a few wood stoves.  There's one in my parent's house hooked up that hasn't been burned since 1997.



Then why are you posting here? You are opposed to wood heat, think it is impractical, that those who choose it are stupid, and support extremely destructive fossil fuel use. Did you even read the rules when you joined?

I assume you will be decent enough now to simply stop posting here, but if that is not the case, hopefully one of our good moderators will simply ban you because you simply do not belong here.


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## pen

Time to close this one up..........


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