# 2-Cycle Oil



## Jacktheknife (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm fairly new to small engines and after doing some research I still feel the need to ask-- what types of 2-cycle oil are acceptable to use in a Stihl Ms250 I am using Poulan Weed Eater 2 Cycle Oil in my Poulan weedwhacker, which has a fuel stabilizer in it. Will this work? Is there one oil I can use in both?


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## Wildo (Dec 17, 2012)

AMZOIL for all


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## MasterMech (Dec 17, 2012)

Your Poulan oil is likely a 40:1 mix which will work in the Stihl.  I prefer (and Stihl recommends) a 50:1 mix to keep carbon deposits and smoke to a minimum. 

Oil to run both?  My experience is that Poulan should be fine with a quality 50:1 oil like Stihl HP Ultra (a very good synthetic oil).  Other options are even leaner, Opti2 and Amsoil Saber Professional, both mix at 100:1 (80:1 if you get every last drop out of the package,  ).  I am currently running the Saber Pro in all of my 2-cycle equipment with zero issues.  (FWIW: My equipment is all Stihl spec'd at 50:1 except the 031 and my HF 2-cycle generator.)  Going to do the crank seals on my 034 soon so I will pull the muffler and check for scoring/scuffing.  That cylinder/piston was perfect prior to the switch in oils.

Side Note: I run my HF genny on 50:1 currently as it is still on it's 2nd tank of fuel.  I started it up new on the 100:1 Amsoil and wasn't happy with how hot things were getting.  I'm guessing the machine work is a little rough on that one and the fit may be a bit tight yet as well.  I will try going back to 100:1 after I've run a couple more tanks through it.  My brand new SH86 (Stihl) ran 3-4 tanks of 100:1 through it with no issues.


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 17, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Your Poulan oil is likely a 40:1 mix which will work in the Stihl.  I prefer (and Stihl recommends) a 50:1 mix to keep carbon deposits and smoke to a minimum.
> 
> Oil to run both?  My experience is that Poulan should be fine with a quality 50:1 oil like Stihl HP Ultra (a very good synthetic oil).  Other options are even leaner, Opti2 and Amsoil Saber Professional, both mix at 100:1 (80:1 if you get every last drop out of the package,  ).  I am currently running the Saber Pro in all of my 2-cycle equipment with zero issues.  (FWIW: My equipment is all Stihl spec'd at 50:1 except the 031 and my HF 2-cycle generator.)  Going to do the crank seals on my 034 soon so I will pull the muffler and check for scoring/scuffing.  That cylinder/piston was perfect prior to the switch in oils.
> 
> Side Note: I run my HF genny on 50:1 currently as it is still on it's 2nd tank of fuel.  I started it up new on the 100:1 Amsoil and wasn't happy with how hot things were getting.  I'm guessing the machine work is a little rough on that one and the fit may be a bit tight yet as well.  I will try going back to 100:1 after I've run a couple more tanks through it.  My brand new SH86 (Stihl) ran 3-4 tanks of 100:1 through it with no issues.


I am use to the bottles that let you draw up as much as you want so you can mix at different ratios for different equipment, do any of the ones you recommended offer this kind of setup?


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## Wildo (Dec 17, 2012)

negative


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## MasterMech (Dec 17, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> I am use to the bottles that let you draw up as much as you want so you can mix at different ratios for different equipment, do any of the ones you recommended offer this kind of setup?


 
Stihl used to sell their baseline conventional oil in that kind of package.  AMSOIL does not, tho I wish they did, but I do like the little "pillow-packs" to mix 1 gallon of fuel.

Opti-2 does sell in that type of package.

http://www.jagorequipmenttoolandsupply.com/products/template.asp?item=1292

Having multiple mix-ratios around for different equipment, unless absolutely necessary, would drive me batty.


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## Wildo (Dec 17, 2012)

sometimes  they  are absolutely  necessary  , my eskimo  ice auger runs like crap on 50:1  but screams on the recommended  32:1


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 17, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Stihl used to sell their baseline conventional oil in that kind of package.  AMSOIL does not, tho I wish they did, but I do like the little "pillow-packs" to mix 1 gallon of fuel.
> 
> Opti-2 does sell in that type of package.
> 
> ...



Would only have two different mixed cans around-- the saw and the whacker. Then the big ten gallon can of straight gas that mowers run off of and mixes filled from-- the gas stations that sell 87 are not close and the push mower will not run on .


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## MasterMech (Dec 17, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> Would only have two different mixed cans around-- the saw and the whacker.


 
That's 1 too many for me! 

9 individual tools and 1 can to feed them.  (That's just the 2 cycle, we won't even talk about my tractor habit.....  )


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 17, 2012)

The weedwhacker isn't a concern of mine unless it breaks. I got the old lady trained to refill the little bottle that came with it and mix it in the 1 gal gas can. She can start it and everything.


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## TreePointer (Dec 17, 2012)

I use Stihl Ultra at 50:1 in all my 2-cycle air cooled engines these days.  Various string trimmers, hedge trimmers, small rototiller, blowers, chainsaws, pole saws--it doesn't matter.  If you look in their manuals, you will see different mix ratios as you go back over the years.  The engines haven't changed much in terms of their lubrication requirements, but the oil has improved dramatically.  The bottom line is that if you use a modern 2-cycle oil designed for air cooled engines, you chainsaw and string trimmer will be fine.

There are exceptions for extreme use like chainsaw milling or those mentioned above, but I'm doing just fine with 93-octane and Ultra at 50:1 and regular use.  Mix enough so that you'll consume all of it within a couple/few months.


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## thetooth (Dec 17, 2012)

If you buy a 6 pack of the Stihl ultra oil when you buy your chain saw it will double the warrenty .


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## jlightning (Dec 17, 2012)

So if I were to run stihl mix 50:1 in my saws, my 15 year old pro Echo weed whacker, and my craftsman weed whacker  i should be ok?  The Echo manual says either 50:1 w Echo oil mix or 32:1 w/ other brand of oil?  The Chraftsman says to use 40:1 and from experience it only likes the premixed 40:1 but i havent tried the stihl mix.  It would be nice to just use the stihl mix!


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## KaptJaq (Dec 17, 2012)

Wildo said:


> sometimes they are absolutely necessary , my eskimo ice auger runs like crap on 50:1 but screams on the recommended 32:1


 
I will sometimes run a 50:1 engine on 40:1 but I don't like going the other way.  The engine is designed for a certain amount of oil in the mix, more will lubricate but burn a little dirty, too much more (32:1 in a 50:1) might make the engine run very hot.  Less (50:1 in a 32:1) will probably damage the engine after a while.

KaptJaq


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## HittinSteel (Dec 17, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> I'm fairly new to small engines and after doing some research I still feel the need to ask-- what types of 2-cycle oil are acceptable to use in a Stihl Ms250 I am using Poulan Weed Eater 2 Cycle Oil in my Poulan weedwhacker, which has a fuel stabilizer in it. Will this work? Is there one oil I can use in both?


 
Yes, that will work fine.

Or you can buy more expensive oil and use it in both. No reason to have 2 separate mix cans.


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## HittinSteel (Dec 17, 2012)

jlightning said:


> So if I were to run stihl mix 50:1 in my saws, my 15 year old pro Echo weed whacker, and my craftsman weed whacker i should be ok? The Echo manual says either 50:1 w Echo oil mix or 32:1 w/ other brand of oil? The Chraftsman says to use 40:1 and from experience it only likes the premixed 40:1 but i havent tried the stihl mix. It would be nice to just use the stihl mix!


 
50:1 with modern oils in everything.

I personally run between 40 and 45:1 in all my 2 stroke equipment because my saws are ported and I don't feel like having 2 separate cans of mix.


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## oilstinks (Dec 17, 2012)

+1 stihl ultra in everything i got.


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## MasterMech (Dec 17, 2012)

jlightning said:


> So if I were to run stihl mix 50:1 in my saws, my 15 year old pro Echo weed whacker, and my craftsman weed whacker i should be ok? The Echo manual says either 50:1 w Echo oil mix or 32:1 w/ other brand of oil? The Chraftsman says to use 40:1 and from experience it only likes the premixed 40:1 but i havent tried the stihl mix. It would be nice to just use the stihl mix!


 
Just the 50:1 Stihl mix should work fine in all of that. Keep in mind I'm running a 35 year old Stihl 031 on 100:1 mix right now. Was originally spec'd for 32:1 I believe. (I don't have a manual for it. ) It has cut several cords of wood since being born again, , It should've locked up a long time ago.


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## smokinj (Dec 17, 2012)

Most important part with 2-cycle oil is......Make sure you put it into the gas.


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## oilstinks (Dec 17, 2012)

lol. funny but very true.


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## wh401 (Dec 17, 2012)

I run Amsoil Sabre at 80:1 w/ 89 in everything...chainsaws, blowers, trimmers, you name it. I've been doing that since 2008 and everything runs/starts like a champ.


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## DuckDog (Dec 17, 2012)

I run either Amsoil or Opti-2 in everything I have.  Opti-2 has been easier to get locally so that is what I have run for the last year or so.  Chainsaw, string trimmer. ice auger, boat motor.  I would never go back to mixing different ratios for different equipment.  Now I always have the right one and gas never gets stale.


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## nate379 (Dec 17, 2012)

I use whatever is cheap.  Walmart brand, Pooland brand, etc... Don't really care.


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## charly (Dec 18, 2012)

Amsoil 50:1 ,, 1 can for all ,, keep it simple,,, 20 years zero oil related problems,nuff said.


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## f3cbboy (Dec 18, 2012)

smokinj said:


> New
> Most important part with 2-cycle oil is......Make sure you put it into the gas.


so true...my sister just straight gassed my br 550 and smoked it.


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## jharkin (Dec 18, 2012)

I use Penzoil air cooled oil at 32:1 in everything. Its a conservative mix that I know won't damage anything and should keep my engines running a long long time

Note this is what a lot of ultralight aircraft pilots run.. If they trust their life to it I trust my saw.


An interesting read on 2 cycle oils... Tested in a different application (r/c engines) Note the particularly poor results of 100:1 amsoil ...
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm


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## Boog (Dec 18, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Just the 50:1 Stihl mix should work fine in all of that. Keep in mind I'm running a 35 year old Stihl 031 on 100:1 mix right now. Was originally spec'd for 32:1 I believe. (I don't have a manual for it. ) It has cut several cords of wood since being born again, , It should've locked up a long time ago.


 
MasterMech, that original 031AV mix was stated as "Regular graded gasoline and branded two-stroke engine oil. 1:40 with STIHL two-stroke engine oil; or 1:25 with other branded two-stroke engine oil", direct from my original 35 year old manual  Us "old" timers are good for something, I've got 4 of those puppies now!


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## fabsroman (Dec 18, 2012)

Yeah, I am too anal. I would be having different mix cans around if equipment called for different ratios. Simple solution, everything right now is Stihl. Stihl saws and trimmer. Going to get a Stihl blower/vac come spring. Between the saws and the trimmer, the mix does not stay around long anymore. Going to get crazy once I get a diesel tractor. Going to have gasoline for the mower, mix for the small equipment, and diesel for the tractor. Hope I pick the right can. lol


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## TreePointer (Dec 18, 2012)

Welcome to my multi-can world.  Actually it's not too bad if you follow standard colors:

red = gasoline
yellow = diesel
blue = kerosene
red w/white stripe (No-Spill brand) = 2-cycle mix 50:1
white = water or aqueous chemical (labeled and dated)


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## MasterMech (Dec 18, 2012)

f3cbboy said:


> so true...my sister just straight gassed my br 550 and smoked it.


 Ouch! That's not a cheap jug either.  I'd tear it down and see if you can get away with just tossing a new piston in there.


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## fabsroman (Dec 19, 2012)

TreePointer said:


> Welcome to my multi-can world. Actually it's not too bad if you follow standard colors:
> 
> red = gasoline
> yellow = diesel
> ...


 
Yep, that is exactly as it should be. I have the red and blue cans and a couple No-Spill 1 gallon containers. One has 50:1 mix in it and the other has bar oil. Both have been labeled in large letters with a Sharpy.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 19, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> I'm fairly new to small engines and after doing some research I still feel the need to ask-- what types of 2-cycle oil are acceptable to use in a Stihl Ms250 I am using Poulan Weed Eater 2 Cycle Oil in my Poulan weedwhacker, which has a fuel stabilizer in it. *Will this work? Is there one oil I can use in both?*


 
Yes, and yes.  Air cooled two stroke engines are not picky about premix oil.


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## XJma (Dec 19, 2012)

I mostly use Stihl 2stroke mix because my FIL has like cases of it that he will never even use.  He gets like a 6 or 8 pack every time he goes to the dealer which is like 1/4 mile down the road from his building!! 

I run that and some husky and echo oil at 50/1 with 93 gas and startron stabilizer in my stihl and husky saws as well as echo 2stroke lawn equipment and jiffy ice auger.  It all loves it. 

I do, however, also have 2stroke outboards that I run at 50/1, and it is recommended NOT to use outboard (liquid cooled engines, TCW3 spec) 2stroke oil with any air cooled equipment, and vice versa.  I don't know what happens if you do, but I'd rather not find out!! 

One caution, if you have your saw/equipment tuned well to run on say 50:1 mix, and decide to throw some 40:1 in there, unless you adjust the jets in the carb, you're going to be running the equipment lean  Lean in terms of air/fuel mix, because the oil comes out of the mix in the crankcase after going through the carb and before going up the transfer ports into the cyilnder.  If you're running rich as is, it may be fine, but if it's cold out and you're already a little lean, be careful  Likewise, if you run 40/1 and go to 50/1, then you will be richening the air/fuel mix, but if your equipment wants more oil in the crankcase, not the greatest idea unless you're using really high quality oils that are designed to run in equipment with less oil, like amsoil.


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## f3cbboy (Dec 19, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> so true...my sister just straight gassed my br 550 and smoked it.
> Ouch! That's not a cheap jug either. I'd tear it down and see if you can get away with just tossing a new piston in there.


Yea it sucked.  needed a new short block..i think it was about $250 for parts.  hardest part on rebuild was getting bolt that holds fan to the crank.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 19, 2012)

XJma said:


> I mostly use Stihl 2stroke mix because my FIL has like cases of it that he will never even use. He gets like a 6 or 8 pack every time he goes to the dealer which is like 1/4 mile down the road from his building!!
> 
> I run that and some husky and echo oil at 50/1 with 93 gas and startron stabilizer in my stihl and husky saws as well as echo 2stroke lawn equipment and jiffy ice auger. It all loves it.
> 
> ...


 
I do: nothing.  I've only been doing it for 20 years or so, but so far so good.


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## XJma (Dec 19, 2012)

Really?  Why do many saws warn not to, and all outboards say not to use regular 2stroke, only liquid cooled rated 2stroke??  Everyone you talk to about outboards says not to run regular, will be bad, so I never have. 

Could have used that info last week, dumped remaining 50/1 into the generator, which isn't a 2stroke but it doesn't mind the extra lube.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 20, 2012)

XJma said:


> Really? Why do many saws warn not to, and all outboards say not to use regular 2stroke, only liquid cooled rated 2stroke?? Everyone you talk to about outboards says not to run regular, will be bad, so I never have.
> 
> Could have used that info last week, dumped remaining 50/1 into the generator, which isn't a 2stroke but it doesn't mind the extra lube.


 
90% of all the warnings on premix oil are emissions related, not protection or performance related.  I wouldn't use standard premix in an injector, however.  Standard premix oil (whether TCW3 or JASO-MA) is too viscus for injector pumps.


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## kopeck (Dec 20, 2012)

I think what was said above about the oil being there is key.

For a very long time my father and I ran Wal-Mart SuperTech 2-stoke oil, 50:1 in premix in EVERYTHING  Snowmobiles, boats, chainsaws weed wackers you name, it had it in there.

We have yet (knock on wood) to burn down anything due to oil.  I think a lot of "oil problems" are really just other issues that get blamed on oil.  Dirty carbs, bad gas, air leak etc.

The snowmobiles all had plenty of miles on them (we're a 4-Stroke gang now), the boats still go and the saws still cut.  We have moved up to a synthetic since then but still 50:1. Oils today, even the cheap ones are so much better then back in the day.  Synthetics are just a step up from that.

I also think a lot of the ethanol gas issues people have been complaining about have been misplaced too.  Not to say I like ethanol, I really don't, but we really haven't changed how we do things and have yet to have any trouble.

K


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## MasterMech (Dec 21, 2012)

kopeck said:


> I think a lot of "oil problems" are really just other issues that get blamed on oil. Dirty carbs, bad gas, air leak etc


 
Bingo!




kopeck said:


> I also think a lot of the ethanol gas issues people have been complaining about have been misplaced too. Not to say I like ethanol, I really don't, but we really haven't changed how we do things and have yet to have any trouble.


 
The problems with modern fuel start when you treat it like wine.  Hoarding it and stashing it in the cellar for 20 years ain't going to make it any better. 




XJma said:


> Really? Why do many saws warn not to, and all outboards say not to use regular 2stroke, only liquid cooled rated 2stroke?? Everyone you talk to about outboards says not to run regular, will be bad, so I never have.


 
Oils rated for water-cooled engines (TCW3 = Two-cycle Water Cooled version 3 of the spec.) are designed for engines that run at cooler temps than air cooled two-cycles.  There is a difference in the oils but many apparently handle conditions outside of their specifications.  

TWC3 is not better than an oil rated for air-cooled engines or vice-versa.  Ratings on the oil has a little to due with emissions but a lot more to do with the temperatures and loads the engines it was designed to protect will see.


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## kopeck (Dec 21, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> The problems with modern fuel start when you treat it like wine. Hoarding it and stashing it in the cellar for 20 years ain't going to make it any better.


 
Yeah, you're 100% right there.  My rule of thumb is the gas is going to sit for more then a few weeks I treat it, other wise I just use it as purchased.

IMHO this has been the case for a long time, well before ethanol blends started to show up in my part of the world.  Gas just doesn't hold up well anymore.  My grandfather used to get bulk drops (farm with gas powered tractors), I don't dare keep 10 gallons around for to long these days never mind hundreds of gallons.

K


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## XJma (Dec 21, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Oils rated for water-cooled engines (TCW3 = Two-cycle Water Cooled version 3 of the spec.) are designed for engines that run at cooler temps than air cooled two-cycles. There is a difference in the oils but many apparently handle conditions outside of their specifications.
> 
> TWC3 is not better than an oil rated for air-cooled engines or vice-versa. Ratings on the oil has a little to due with emissions but a lot more to do with the temperatures and loads the engines it was designed to protect will see.


 
Yeah, that's what I thought.  I have had good results with using specified oils in specified equipment.  I'll keep it that way!


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## TMonter (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd recommend Mobil Racing 2T which I used the last of my stock this year but unfortunately it's no longer available. Really any high quality brand synthetic should be fine at 50:1. I'd even consider Echo or Tanaka's brand oil as both are synthetic blends and good quality.

Really the big difference in oils generally is best seen when you break an engine down for maintenance or rebuild. BSnelling who does a lot of chainsaws on Arborist site swore by the Racing 2T in the past but I'm not sure what he's been using in the last couple years since it went off the market.

I'm not sure what I'll use this next season but I'm sure it'll be a name-brand full synthetic.


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## nate379 (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd need to get some diesel cans.  I had diesel in a gas can, ended up filling my pressure washer and yard tractor from it.  Yeah, gas engines WILL run on diesel, just a real groan to start!


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## Pallet Pete (Dec 22, 2012)

I have 40-1 and 50-1 cans all amzoil I have tried most synthetic and to be honest all others suck in comparison. My saws and other equipment run much cleaner with way less carbon buildup now.. 

Pete


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 23, 2012)

Pallet Pete said:


> I have 40-1 and 50-1 cans all amzoil I have tried most synthetic and to be honest all others suck in comparison. My saws and other equipment run much cleaner with way less carbon buildup now..
> 
> Pete



Ok, problem solved-- I hope. I will be getting since use can from my Stihl dealer for a pretty fair price. I am watching for a white and red can to use as chainsaw only until the weedwhacker uses up all the poulan stuff, I which case I will just be able to bring more fuel with me for a big job-- or for when I am partially through a gallon and know it won't be enough.


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## TMonter (Dec 23, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> Ok, problem solved-- I hope. I will be getting since use can from my Stihl dealer for a pretty fair price. I am watching for a white and red can to use as chainsaw only until the weedwhacker uses up all the poulan stuff, I which case I will just be able to bring more fuel with me for a big job-- or for when I am partially through a gallon and know it won't be enough.


 
You can do some searching online and buy a decent stock of oil for a good price depending on how fast you go through it.


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 23, 2012)

TMonter said:


> You can do some searching online and buy a decent stock of oil for a good price depending on how fast you go through it.


The dealer is selling it for $1.75 a bottle, enough to mix a gallon of 50:1. I haven't been able to match that online.


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## jharkin (Dec 23, 2012)

XJma said:


> One caution, if you have your saw/equipment tuned well to run on say 50:1 mix, and decide to throw some 40:1 in there, unless you adjust the jets in the carb, you're going to be running the equipment lean Lean in terms of air/fuel mix, *because the oil comes out of the mix in the crankcase after going through the carb and before going up the transfer ports into the cyilnder.* If you're running rich as is, it may be fine, but if it's cold out and you're already a little lean, be careful Likewise, if you run 40/1 and go to 50/1, then you will be richening the air/fuel mix, but if your equipment wants more oil in the crankcase, not the greatest idea unless you're using really high quality oils that are designed to run in equipment with less oil, like amsoil.


 
Not true. There is no magic in the crankcase that separates the oil from the fuel, it gets drawn through the cylinder and burns up with the gas - Pull the backplate of an enginre thats run a long time and you will find only a fine mist coating of oil on the crank and bearings. No need to worry about running lean, the 0.5% difference in oil percentage going form 40/1 to50/1 is not something you would ever notice in mixture settings.  Now it you make a big change like 32/1 to 60/1 or such, and were already at the limit of lean running,  then yeah you might need to re-tune.

Look at the oil test link I posted above for more info.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 23, 2012)

TMonter said:


> I'd recommend Mobil Racing 2T which I used the last of my stock this year but unfortunately it's no longer available. Really any high quality brand synthetic should be fine at 50:1. I'd even consider Echo or Tanaka's brand oil as both are synthetic blends and good quality.
> 
> Really the big difference in oils generally is best seen when you break an engine down for maintenance or rebuild. BSnelling who does a lot of chainsaws on Arborist site swore by the Racing 2T in the past but I'm not sure what he's been using in the last couple years since it went off the market.
> 
> *I'm not sure what I'll use this next season but I'm sure it'll be a name-brand full synthetic.*


 
Klotz R50


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## Como (Dec 23, 2012)

I picked up some Stihl synthetic after reading this.

I also found a seller of straight gas, but closed at the weekend. I think ethanol may have caused my Subaru Robin to run badly, added Seafoam. Now much better.

I noticed on the UK board that they have access to a product called Aspen, I have a a feeling that a lot of issues can be put down to stale fuel.


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## TMonter (Dec 23, 2012)

Como said:


> I picked up some Stihl synthetic after reading this.
> 
> I also found a seller of straight gas, but closed at the weekend. I think ethanol may have caused my Subaru Robin to run badly, added Seafoam. Now much better.
> 
> I noticed on the UK board that they have access to a product called Aspen, I have a a feeling that a lot of issues can be put down to stale fuel.


 
This is one of the reasons I've switched to AV gas for all of my yard equipment the past couple years. I haven't had an issue with equipment working in the spring and having to rebuild carburetors since I have. One of the other great things about AV Gas is how it evaporates and doesn't leave a obvious residue which I love. AV gas is required to be "shelf stable" for up to two years because they use it in remote fuel dumps in places like Alaska.


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## MasterMech (Dec 23, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> The dealer is selling it for $1.75 a bottle, enough to mix a gallon of 50:1. I haven't been able to match that online.


 
Get the 8 oz bottles and it's $.86 a gallon, (80:1, which I prefer to 100:1)

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/2-stroke/saber-professional/

Get's even cheaper if you sign on for a "Preferred Customer" membership. (Makes the most sense if you spend over $100 a year with them.)


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## MasterMech (Dec 23, 2012)

TMonter said:


> This is one of the reasons I've switched to AV gas for all of my yard equipment the past couple years. I haven't had an issue with equipment working in the spring and having to rebuild carburetors since I have. One of the other great things about AV Gas is how it evaporates and doesn't leave a obvious residue which I love. AV gas is required to be "shelf stable" for up to two years because they use it in remote fuel dumps in places like Alaska.


While it is indeed designed to be storable for much longer periods than regular automotive fuel, 100LL AvGas also contains two to six times the TEL (Lead) that 60's automotive fuel had in it.  Something to think about when the equipment burning it exhausts within 3 ft of your nose.

I haven't had any time/luck to research this but I was wondering if any of the racing fuel companies made an unleaded race fuel that was ethanol free, relatively stable, and significantly cheaper than SEF. (Small Engine Fuel, which is wicked $$)  Perhaps whatever it is NASCAR Cup cars are burning these days.


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## TMonter (Dec 23, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Get the 8 oz bottles and it's $.86 a gallon, (80:1, which I prefer to 100:1)
> 
> http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/2-stroke/saber-professional/
> 
> Get's even cheaper if you sign on for a "Preferred Customer" membership. (Makes the most sense if you spend over $100 a year with them.)


 
I don't know that I would ever consider mixing at such a low amount of oil. The risks of a problem in jetting or air density causing a oil lean condition are just too high IMO. I've mixed M2T at 50:1 for several years on my 372XP and broke it down for a mild port earlier this year and found no carbon buildup on either the piston or jug.


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## TMonter (Dec 23, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While it is indeed designed to be storable for much longer periods than regular automotive fuel, 100LL AvGas also contains two to six times the TEL (Lead) that 60's automotive fuel had in it. Something to think about when the equipment burning it exhausts within 3 ft of your nose.
> 
> I haven't had any time/luck to research this but I was wondering if any of the racing fuel companies made an unleaded race fuel that was ethanol free, relatively stable, and significantly cheaper than SEF. (Small Engine Fuel, which is wicked $$) Perhaps whatever it is NASCAR Cup cars are burning these days.


 
If I were using the saw on a daily basis I would agree, but as an occasional user I'm sure my exposure to other sources of lead is much much higher.


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## ewdudley (Dec 23, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While it is indeed designed to be storable for much longer periods than regular automotive fuel, 100LL AvGas also contains two to six times the TEL (Lead) that 60's automotive fuel had in it.  Something to think about when the equipment burning it exhausts within 3 ft of your nose.
> 
> I haven't had any time/luck to research this but I was wondering if any of the racing fuel companies made an unleaded race fuel that was ethanol free, relatively stable, and significantly cheaper than SEF. (Small Engine Fuel, which is wicked $$)  Perhaps whatever it is NASCAR Cup cars are burning these days.


Sunoco sells a bewildering variety of pump racing fuel nearby to many tracks, many of which are ethanol free, probably fairly pricey as well:

http://www.racegas.com/fuelfinder

Johnson Fuel
285 Springtown Road, New Paltz, NY 12561
Fuels: Standard, Supreme, 260 GTX in stock,
Phone: 845-256-0209
Notes:
Has all fuels available, please call for more options


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## Jacktheknife (Dec 23, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While it is indeed designed to be storable for much longer periods than regular automotive fuel, 100LL AvGas also contains two to six times the TEL (Lead) that 60's automotive fuel had in it.  Something to think about when the equipment burning it exhausts within 3 ft of your nose.
> 
> I haven't had any time/luck to research this but I was wondering if any of the racing fuel companies made an unleaded race fuel that was ethanol free, relatively stable, and significantly cheaper than SEF. (Small Engine Fuel, which is wicked $$)  Perhaps whatever it is NASCAR Cup cars are burning these days.


NASCAR is burning ethanol now.


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## Bigg_Redd (Dec 23, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> While it is indeed designed to be storable for much longer periods than regular automotive fuel, *100LL AvGas also contains two to six times the TEL (Lead) that 60's automotive fuel had in it*. Something to think about when the equipment burning it exhausts within 3 ft of your nose.
> 
> I haven't had any time/luck to research this but I was wondering if any of the racing fuel companies made an unleaded race fuel that was ethanol free, relatively stable, and significantly cheaper than SEF. (Small Engine Fuel, which is wicked $$) Perhaps whatever it is NASCAR Cup cars are burning these days.


 
Yup.  It smells like winning.


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## evilgriff (Dec 23, 2012)

I bought a couple of cases of this stuff at a motorcycle dealership closing 10 years ago or more, for pennies on the dollar. Been mixing it 50:1. Never an issue with Stihl, Husky, or Echo items I have owned. The major problem I have is I am down to 2 bottles now.

http://www.spectro-oils.com/golden-spectro-two-cycle-pre-mix-blend/


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## Como (Dec 23, 2012)

If lead is an issue it is too late for me.

I looked it up, what you need is alkylate gas (petrol), but as far as I can see it is not sold in the US but is widely available in the UK and Europe.


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## Pallet Pete (Dec 24, 2012)

evilgriff said:


> I bought a couple of cases of this stuff at a motorcycle dealership closing 10 years ago or more, for pennies on the dollar. Been mixing it 50:1. Never an issue with Stihl, Husky, or Echo items I have owned. The major problem I have is I am down to 2 bottles now.
> 
> http://www.spectro-oils.com/golden-spectro-two-cycle-pre-mix-blend/



I also ran Spectro for a couple seasons that stuff is as good as Amsoil in my opinion. Amsoil is readily available around here the Spectro I brought back with me from California when I was discharged.

Pete


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## MasterMech (Dec 24, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> NASCAR is burning ethanol now.


Hmm, E15 it seems, cross that one off the list.  E15 won't be any good for todays or yesterdays equipment.


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## MasterMech (Dec 24, 2012)

A quick look around and the cheapest unleaded ethanol free fuel I could find was VP Racing T4 @ $12 a gallon if you buy a 54 gallon drum of it.
Their website claims SEF gets much more economical in large containers but I would have to track my actual fuel usage to see if I could justify keeping a 55 gallon drum around.

Or maybe I could just keep to my recommendation of running pump gas treated with Star-tron and keeping a 30-day or less supply around.  Been working so far.


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## basod (Dec 24, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> A quick look around and the cheapest unleaded ethanol free fuel I could find was VP Racing T4 @ $12 a gallon if you buy a 54 gallon drum of it.
> Their website claims SEF gets much more economical in large containers but I would have to track my actual fuel usage to see if I could justify keeping a 55 gallon drum around.
> 
> Or maybe I could just keep to my recommendation of running pump gas treated with Star-tron and keeping a 30-day or less supply around. Been working so far.


You don't have lake/marina around?
The gas stations over by the lake near me sell it at the pump about 30cents more a gallon.
They advertise its ethanol free anyways


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## MasterMech (Dec 24, 2012)

basod said:


> You don't have lake/marina around?
> The gas stations over by the lake near me sell it at the pump about 30cents more a gallon.
> They advertise its ethanol free anyways


E10 everywhere I look here.  Nearest marina is 45 minutes out and I use way too much fuel to make that practical, even if it was ethanol free.

I burn my 13.5 gallon fuel supply every 2 weeks, sometimes faster.  Recently expanded to 26 gallons but not sure if I want to keep using the old cans. (They SUCK. )


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## Como (Dec 24, 2012)

I picked up 5 gallons of Ethanol free 91 this morning,the Race fuel was 112 and 110 Octane!

I pay just under $3 for regular, about $3.30 for Ethanol 91 and just over $4 for this.


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