# When is a pro saw justified?



## GordonShumway (Aug 7, 2011)

I was told in another thread that money would be better spent on a pro chainsaw vs putting it towards a good splitter. How much wood (cords) must you cut each year to justify the cost of a pro chainsaw? Is it based on volume, tree types generally cut, size of tree, speed desired? Granted I believe milling your own lumber would be pretty neat with a pro saw, bc there is no way one of my current ones could do the trick. So when folks had purchased a pro saw, what was the deciding factor to get one?


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## CTYank (Aug 7, 2011)

GordonShumway said:
			
		

> I was told in another thread that money would be better spent on a pro chainsaw vs putting it towards a good splitter. How much wood (cords) must you cut each year to justify the cost of a pro chainsaw? Is it based on volume, tree types generally cut, size of tree, speed desired? Granted I believe milling your own lumber would be pretty neat with a pro saw, bc there is no way one of my current ones could do the trick. So when folks had purchased a pro saw, what was the deciding factor to get one?



It's justified when your wife says it is, knowing the payback in local fuelwood production. Sounds like you'd benefit from a discussion with a local like-minded buddy and/or a reputable local saw dealer. We're purely guessing at a loooooong distance, and you're talking lots of your $. As you mention, there are lots of weighting-factors.


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2011)

Hey Gordon,

The whole reason to get a "Pro-Saw" is speed baby.  You can cut more productively since they run at higher rpms, generate more power, and hold up longer than entry-level models.  If it's just durability that concerns you, most mid-range saws have got the durability but compromise on the power to weight ratio.  Stihl's MS361 vs. MS390 is a great example of two saws rated at exactly the same output but the 361 will cut circles around the 390 and it's a full 2lb's lighter.  Pro saws also tend to have better anti-vibration setups and may come with better bar/chain combos too. They also are built from more expensive materials. (Like magnesium chassis and covers as opposed to plastic everything.)

As far as when the upgrade is "cost-justified" ? If you're happy with your saw's performance and it's in great shape then I say keep it.  If you could use the speed, and have the cash, go for the upgrade.  Pro-saws also come in all sizes too. (check out a Stihl MS200 or Husky 338XPT, and their price tages!) 

I can't answer your question regarding my deciding factor since my 034 was a "Ball O Dirt" that was abandoned.  Comp. tested it and inspected the cyl, carb was NG so that was replaced, put a decent Bar & chain combo on it and have been slicing and dicing ever since.

Buy the best equipment you can afford (applies to all tools!) 'cause you can't afford cheap tools.


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## jeff_t (Aug 7, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> Hey Gordon,
> 
> The whole reason to get a "Pro-Saw" is speed baby.  You can cut more productively since they run at higher rpms, generate more power, and hold up longer than entry-level models.  If it's just durability that concerns you, most mid-range saws have got the durability but compromise on the power to weight ratio.  Stihl's MS361 vs. MS390 is a great example of two saws rated at exactly the same output but the 361 will cut circles around the 390 and it's a full 2lb's lighter.  Pro saws also tend to have better anti-vibration setups and may come with better bar/chain combos too. They also are built from more expensive materials. (Like magnesium chassis and covers as opposed to plastic everything.)
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Pretty well said.


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## RNLA (Aug 7, 2011)

Please don't get all mesmerized by the terminology "PRO SAW". The pro saws are built a bit more heavy duty, and yes easier to work on, as a pro user would be required to service their saw on a regular basis due to everyday use. My advice is a split decision. I do have all pro saws but I know many users who can cut as much or more in a day with a farm saw or home owner saw. If properly set up and maintained a chainsaw is only as good as the chain, with an exception for overall power. The reference to power being the right saw for the job. I would say if you cut more than 2-3 times / month then you could use a high quality saw. If you have the money and just want it then go for it....


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## Kenster (Aug 7, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> Hey Gordon,
> 
> Stihl's MS361 vs. MS390 is a great example of two saws rated at exactly the same output but the 361 will cut circles around the 390 and it's a full 2lb's lighter.  Pro saws also tend to have better anti-vibration setups and may come with better bar/chain combos too. They also are built from more expensive materials. (Like magnesium chassis and covers as opposed to plastic everything.)
> .



Interesting comparison and one I'm not qualified to dispute.  I happen to have a MS390 with a muffler mod.  Besides the weight advantage for the 361, is the power that much different?   I mean, assuming chains are sharp, are you talking about slicing through the same log in a second or two quicker with the 361?  Is that enough to justify the cost of the "Pro?"  

I'm tickled with the performance of my 390.  Maybe it was because I came up from a little bitty Craftsman, but it seems to turn my oak and hickory to butter by comparison.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 7, 2011)

A pro saw is justified if you ever want to tell anybody on hearth.com or arboristsite.com what saw you have.

It is worth the difference not to have to listen to the grief you get with any other saw.  :lol: Of course that means you have to buy both a Husky and a Stihl pro saw.


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2011)

That 390 is a beast but the 361 will out run it due to shear chain speed. The 361 revs out a few thousand RPM more than the 390.  IMO the biggest difference is how I feel after cutting with the thing for 8, 10, 12 hours.  That 2lb diet and the better AV system make all the difference!  And while $200 (the approximate difference in cost, Think it was a little less than that.) may be a chunk of change up front.  10, 15 years from now I'm not going to miss it but I sure am going to appreciate the saw that much more.

PS. I work PT on a golf course and run a MS 390 almost daily in the early spring.  I have nothing but praise for it as a "Farm Saw."


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## wendell (Aug 7, 2011)

It's a question no one can answer for you, Kenster loves his 390. If I had to use a 390 to cut my wood I'd turn on my gas furnace.  :lol: 

The one piece of advice I will give you is if you don't think you want to buy a pro saw, definitely don't try one.


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## oilstinks (Aug 7, 2011)

a pro saw justified? Any time im cutting wood. Although a chain in good order and sharp means more to me than anything but a sharp chain on my big bore dual port muffler  460mag= 
WAHOO.


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## GordonShumway (Aug 7, 2011)

[quote author="BrotherBart" date="1312698417"]A pro saw is justified if you ever want to tell anybody on hearth.com or arboristsite.com what saw you have.

That makes me laugh.
I hear a lot of talk of pro saws on here. Sounds like those that have them generally use them more then just some one who cuts 4-5 cords a year. I didn't realize that pro saws where engineered to be maintained and repaired by their user over a dealer. That would make that a big bonus. Are the parts for pro saws more readily available? If you were someone looking at getting into selling firewood, would you even consider anything other then a pro saw?


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## MasterMech (Aug 7, 2011)

GordonShumway said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 7, 2011)

I say it doesn't need to be justified.  Most people spend $500-$1000 on a computer every 3-5 years.  Buy a good saw and you'll spend $500-$1000 once in your entire life and most likely pass it on to one of your kids.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 7, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> *A pro saw is justified if you ever want to tell anybody on hearth.com or arboristsite.com what saw you have.*
> 
> It is worth the difference not to have to listen to the grief you get with any other saw.  :lol: Of course that means you have to buy both a Husky and a Stihl pro saw.



Or, if you _don't_ want to tell anyone


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## MofoG23 (Aug 7, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> I say it doesn't need to be justified.  Most people spend $500-$1000 on a computer every 3-5 years.  Buy a good saw and you'll spend $500-$1000 once in your entire life and most likely pass it on to one of your kids.



Which is one of the biggest reasons I bought mine.  I wanted to buy it once and plan to hand it down to my son.

As much as you will use your saw, the difference your talking about regarding price is actually very little...what is a couple hundred bucks over 20 years of wood cutting?  The lighter weight, speed and better AV will certainly be noticed over that period of time.

You've got the bad arse splitter, finish your tool kit off right.


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## MarkinNC (Aug 7, 2011)

Having made the jump last year, the difference is more than slightly noticeable.  I really like processing firewood and running the saws is by far the best part for me.  When I got my 372xp last year, I had my wife time me cutting a couple of cookies on about a 18 red oak.  the 50 Special cut through the log in about 90 seconds and kinda struggled along the way.  The 372xp ripped (i know it's really cross cut) through the log like a beast in 45 seconds.  There different size saws, 70 versus 50 cc, but damn what a difference in speed.

I am not sure what size those Echo saws are you have, but I really like the 70cc class.  I was shopping for a 372 xp or Stihl 440 when I bought mine.   I found a used 372 on CL for $550 like new.  The 441 had just come out and I was afraid of an untested new saw, but I hear that it is an awesome running (and fuel sipping) saw.

I do think the pro saws are more durable and one of my goals was to get very successful commercial saws so that parts will be around for years to come.


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## Backwoods Savage (Aug 7, 2011)

The purchase of a pro saw is justified whenever you wish to buy one. You won't be disappointed by going pro.


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## stee6043 (Aug 7, 2011)

When my MS310 gives it up (which may never happen) I will replace it with a pro series Stihl.  And I only run a measly 4-5 cord per year.  I've borrowed pro gear from my brother and it's just "better". 

If I had my choice right now I think I'd be running a 361/362 90% of the time and have a 440 for the big logs.  But...I need beer money so this is not currently in the cards.


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## thinkxingu (Aug 7, 2011)

There are very few cheaper items as good as more expensive ones.  Quite simply: as in most things in life, it is justifiable if you can afford it.

S


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## amateur cutter (Aug 7, 2011)

When is a pro saw justified? Only when you're gonna cut wood imho.  :coolgrin: That said, I know many people that have cut 100's of cords with farm & homeowner grade saws for years, me included. Years ago I ran a friend's 046 mag against my 041 av, &  it was game over. Found a nice used 064, learned how to properly sharpen a chain, & haven't looked backed since. Remember two things about saws, a sharp chain is your best friend, & there is no replacement for displacement. A C


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## DexterDay (Aug 7, 2011)

amateur cutter said:
			
		

> When is a pro saw justified? Only when you're gonna cut wood imho.  :coolgrin: That said, I know many people that have cut 100's of cords with farm & homeowner grade saws for years, me included. Years ago I ran a friend's 046 mag against my 041 av, &  it was game over. Found a nice used 064, learned how to properly sharpen a chain, & haven't looked backed since. Remember two things about saws, a sharp chain is your best friend, & there is no replacement for displacement. A C



Well said.... Sharp Chain and Big CC's.. Just got my 1st Pro Saw. Picked up an 036 (Mint). I only used a couple times before the oiler quit. It sat dry for years. Thinking the lines and other parts just dried up. My buddy bought it new. 

Anyways... My 455 is only about 7 cc's smaller than the 036. The 036 Runs Faster (Chain Speed) and revs quicker and faster. Sounds a H#LL of lot "Meaner" too.

I am currently going to sell my 435 and 435T and replace them with MS 441, 660, or 880 (660 more than likely). Still gonna keep the Rancher 455. I have used it more than anything. Good saw, it has its place. But a Pro Saw gets it DONE and gets it DONE in a HURRY Like stated above. Dont run a Pro Saw, if you dont want to buy one. Love at 1st Slice...


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## TreePointer (Aug 7, 2011)

A good test for the pro vs. homeowner/landowner saws is when using the same bar & chain while making stumps or completely burying the bar.  That's when you'll often notice the torque difference.


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## wannabegreener (Aug 7, 2011)

Gordon,

I also read the "spend your money on a pro saw" and was curious.  After reading all of this I have the itch to get one, but not sure what to get.  All of the comments seem to say get the most you can afford.

I just quickly looked at 4 stihls and priced them all with the 20" bar (the 880 starts with a 21" bar)

441   $869
460   $989
660   $1109
880  $1729

This is all suggested retail so I'm not sure if you can get them at a better price or not.   Does anyone know if most dealers are selling for suggested retail?

Is there a big difference between the 441, 460 and 660?  The difference in price from the 441 to 660 is $240.  The 880 must be a monster. I was shocked when I saw the price.


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## TreePointer (Aug 7, 2011)

Around here the Stihl dealers don't move from the suggested retail price, but they'll throw in extra goodies which may include one or more of the following:  6 pack of 2-cycle oil, extra chain, 1/2 price carry case, free hat.


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## amateur cutter (Aug 8, 2011)

I'd also look @ good used maybe, & don't buy an 880 unless you're gonna cut 40" & bigger stuff consistently, the 660 will cut faster @ higher rpm with plenty of grunt till you get beyond a 28"or even36" bar buried in hardwood. The 660 weighs a lot less also. Yes the 880 is a monster saw, but built pretty much for huge wood or milling. Jay know's them better than I do. 460 is more saw than 441 in same weight class. A very nice 2 saw combo is a 260/261 for limbing & light cutting, & 460 for bigger work. Sling a 460 or 660 all day, & you know did something, but the production is amazing. A C


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## Thistle (Aug 8, 2011)

Whenever you damn well feel like it.


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## Thistle (Aug 8, 2011)

wannabegreener said:
			
		

> Gordon,
> 
> I also read the "spend your money on a pro saw" and was curious.  After reading all of this I have the itch to get one, but not sure what to get.  All of the comments seem to say get the most you can afford.
> 
> ...



 Stihl 880 - 121.6cc/7.42 cubic inch 8.6HP  22.3 lbs
 Husqvarna 3120XP - 119cc/7.2 cubic inch 8.4 HP  22.9 lbs  These are the most powerful saws made today - very close matches,and either one is perfect for  powering a chainsaw mill & other heavy production cutting.


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## golfandwoodnut (Aug 8, 2011)

I have a 660 mostly for milling and cutting the big stuff.  I would not ever call it my ever day saw.  I have a  390 that gets the most use for it is best for me for the middle of the road stuff.  But I still have a Husky 50 that I love to use on branches and smaller stuff.  So in my opinion it is best to have a variety.  If you get a 660 or an 880 and plan on cutting with it full time I think you will be sorry because of the weight.


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## Thistle (Aug 8, 2011)

GolfandWoodNut said:
			
		

> I have a 660 mostly for milling and cutting the big stuff.  I would not ever call it my ever day saw.  I have a  390 that gets the most use for it is best for me for the middle of the road stuff.  But I still have a Husky 50 that I love to use on branches and smaller stuff.  So in my opinion it is best to have a variety.  If you get a 660 or an 880 and plan on cutting with it full time I think you will be sorry because of the weight.



Agreed. I wouldnt want to use my Poulan 475 or Husky 288XP for everyday firewood cutting.They are reserved for the mill & anything larger than 20" I'm getting.Anything up to 20" the Super 380 just flies through (12lbs, 135000RPMs) it gets 80% of the use.Dont even use the wee Echo much now,except on rare occasions I have to climb when pruning or cleanup.Nice to have a variety like you said.


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## GordonShumway (Aug 8, 2011)

I feel like an idiot, all this talk of pro saws and I don't even know what I have myself. Was out in the garage today and realized that my so called 440evl is actually a 660evl.  Not the one I use very often, but now that the cs400 just took a crap on me (no spark) had to go suit up the other one. Not a pro but beefier then I thought.


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## amateur cutter (Aug 8, 2011)

How many cc is that echo, & have no clue on that?


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## Thistle (Aug 8, 2011)

The 660-EVL is 64.2cc,3.92 cubic inch.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 8, 2011)

wannabegreener said:
			
		

> Gordon,
> 
> I also read the "spend your money on a pro saw" and was curious.  After reading all of this I have the itch to get one, but not sure what to get.  All of the comments seem to say get the most you can afford.
> 
> ...



If you want a big-boy saw I'd stay with the 440/441/460.  They're all identical size and weight with the 460 having a distinct power advantage.  

Skip the 660/880.  They are much bigger and heavier and far less wieldy.


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 8, 2011)

TreePointer said:
			
		

> Around here the Stihl dealers don't move from the suggested retail price, but they'll throw in extra goodies which may include one or more of the following:  6 pack of 2-cycle oil, extra chain, 1/2 price carry case, free hat.



My local guy knocks 10% off everything 362 and up - no free hats or chains


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## TreePointer (Aug 8, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> My local guy knocks 10% off everything 362 and up - no free hats or chains



Time for me to move to the PNW!


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## HittinSteel (Aug 8, 2011)

TreePointer said:
			
		

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Try to set up a dealer war.......they will come off their stingy MSRP that way. In my area there are about 6-8 stihl dealers competing in a 45 mile radius.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 8, 2011)

GordonShumway said:
			
		

> Was out in the garage today and realized that my so called 440evl is actually a 660evl.



I say love the one you are with.  Something in the 65-70 range is going to do the vast majority of firewood production for trees that are reasonably sized for efficient production.  Even when you get in the 65-70 range, it is nice to have something in the 50 range to limb with.  Anything bigger than 65-70, you better have a big pile of 18+ inch logs you are constantly working or a fetish for monster trees.  While arguably entertaining, IMO anything over 24" in diameter starts to be a lot more work to make the same btus especially if you are working alone.


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## MasterMech (Aug 8, 2011)

HittinSteel said:
			
		

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I think you'd be surprised how stingy that MSRP really is from a dealer's perspective.  That guy knocking 10% off his saws is probably cutting his profit in half.  Also, I'm not too sure I want to be known as a PITA the next time I want to buy something, get a discount, or need service.  Most dealers that I've known/worked for discount on bigger ticket items or throw in the goodies that your going to need anyway,. Especially for repeat customers.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 8, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

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I must be a PITA, because when negotiating a price, the last concern for me would be a dealer's profit margin.


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## smokinj (Aug 8, 2011)

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

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Agree, 660  has its place but you better have some BIG TREES to buck or mill, Or your that guy that 6'2" and up 200+lbs. Just more saw than I can handle.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 9, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Agree, 660  has its place but you better have some BIG TREES to buck or mill, Or your that guy that 6'2" and up 200+lbs. Just more saw than I can handle.



Depends on what you get used to, I imagine.  I have a friend who used to be in the firewood business with his two cousins.  He said they tried to bury him pulling trees out of the woods to buck up.  He kept up with them running either a 066 or a 394XP for about 8 hours a day.  He's about 5'8" and weighs 145 soaking wet.  He's out of the firewood business now, but he uses a 7900 with a carving bar on it to rough out bears in about 10-15 minutes.  He said he used to do shoulder raises with two 7900s to build up his strength.  Bucking wood is one thing, holding up and controlling 20 pounds of saw, bar, chain and fluids at eye level to shape a bear's head is another.  Lots of big men can't handle that saw the way he does.  He's got some mean shoulder muscles for a little guy, let me tell you.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 9, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> I think you'd be surprised how stingy that MSRP really is from a dealer's perspective.  That guy knocking 10% off his saws is probably cutting his profit in half.  Also, I'm not too sure I want to be known as a PITA the next time I want to buy something, get a discount, or need service.  Most dealers that I've known/worked for discount on bigger ticket items or throw in the goodies that your going to need anyway,. Especially for repeat customers.



The dealer I got my 346XP from showed me his cost for that saw, which retailed for $509 at the time.  It was $419 - plenty of room for him to drop the price to $450 for just the powerhead.  It's the second saw I bought from him and had a major rebuild on my 357 done my his mechanic as well.  He seems totally satisfied with our rrelationship, even swapped out the rims on both saws from .325 to 3/8 so I can run lo-pro on them - no charge for labor.  He also gave my wife 10% off her Husky chaps when she mentioned I was the guy who just bought a saw from him.  However, there are about 10 Stihl and 20 Husky servicing dealers within a short drive from me, and none of them are willing to drop 10 cents off the price.  My dealer's willingness to give discounts and still provide great service are two of the reasons I went with Husky rather than Stihl.

Bottom line is, there is plenty of profit margin in these tools, especially the high-priced spread (pro saws)... a _lot_ more than there is in a gallon of milk or a quart of mayo at the supermarket.


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

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Me, on the saw 660 just to much...I am 5'10" and 175lbs. 880 on a trunk I am good to go. 460 for my size is alot of hp moving around.


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## lukem (Aug 9, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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I was in the Stihl shop today picking up an oil filter for the mower.  I wouldn't respect myself if I didn't go browse the saws.

They had a 441, 460, 660, and 880 all right there!  It was awesome.

The 880 is a HOSS without the bar.  Definitely a purpose build saw, not for everyday wood cutting.

The 660 was bigger than I expected, but not too much to handle (for me).  

The 441/460 felt about the same and were the same size as my 361...felt a little heavier but still very nice weight.

I'm 6'3" and 185 and still in my youth (relatively speaking).


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2011)

lukem said:
			
		

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660 should be a better fit for you...880 5 hours on a red oak 50+ inchs and 115 degree heat index is all I could take. (Thats only using it on the trunk)   There is a world of difference between a 361  and a 441/460. ;-) My 460 runs pretty strong. :cheese:


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## lukem (Aug 9, 2011)

I know they run better, but weight wise it wasn't that noticeable.  361 is all the saw I need.  I've used a 044 before and it was pretty nice.  Not nice enough for ME to spend the $ though.


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2011)

lukem said:
			
		

> I know they run better, but weight wise it wasn't that noticeable.  361 is all the saw I need.  I've used a 044 before and it was pretty nice.  Not nice enough for ME to spend the $ though.




361 is the saw used the most around here. I get the call normally after the tree is to much for them. Puts me doing clean big trunks and that's where I like to cut. ;-)


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## Flatbedford (Aug 9, 2011)

I have been thinking about this a lot since I got my new to me 036 a few weeks ago. In 1996 we replaced our ailing and unreliable Sears special Homelite with a brand new 029 with a 20" bar. An enormous Red Oak had fallen at my parent's house and we put some of the insurance money toward purchase of this saw. The first time I used it I was absolutely awe stricken. It was an animal! Able to plunge cut right in to the 30" Oak trunk. The 029 cost about $150 more than the Homelight if I remember correctly and was worth every penny. I used this saw for years, upgrading to full chisel, non safety chain a few years ago. Since I bought my house 8 years ago I have been cutting between 2 and 6 cords per year with my trusty 029. When I started reading and posting here and at Aboristsite I found out that my 029 was actually under powered and over weight. I had no idea. It cut circles around that old Homelite. I started reading about these fancy and expensive pro saws. They sounded pretty awesome to me, but the 029 was working great for me and I owned it already and it had been 100% reliable too. I figured that if I ever had to replace the 029, I might spend a couple bucks and, maybe, upgrade to an MS390, but I could not justify the big $$$ leap to a pro saw. I had used a couple friend's pro saws and was pretty impressed by them, but I was still happy with the old 029. A couple months ago a friend of mine picked up a used 036 for $90. I jokingly told him that I'd give him $100 for it. He brought it over and I tried it out. I was in love! I told him that my $100 offer was serious. Knowing that he is really a Husky guy, I had a feeling he would sell. My wife convinced him to sell it to her for my birthday last month. My impression, Holy Crap! This saw is an animal. About the same improvement as the switch from the Homelite to the 029. I bought a 20" bar for it and it probably cuts twice as fast as the 029 and almost never bogs down. Now, I spent only $100 for this upgrade. With 20" bar the MSRP for an MS290 is $379.95, the MS362 is $689.95. I don't know how my older models compared price wise, but I am guessing it was similar. That is a $300 dollar difference. A big jump. The MS362 costs only $70 less than 2 MS290s would cost. The bigger saw does cut faster, but I can't load the truck or split and stack any faster though. 
Is the $310 a justifiable expense for a 4-5 cord per year firewood cutter? I still don't think so. But, if you come a cross a great deal on a good used one, jump on it!
I went from 56.5 cc to 61.5 and chain speed went from 12,500 rpm to 13,500 rpm. Weight dropped a negligible .4 lbs. 
As always, only you know what you can afford and what you want to pay. A quality mid range saw will serve you very well. A quality pro saw will serve you better, but cutting is only a small part of the whole firewood process. Also keep in mind that most of us burn wood to save money. Spending an extra $300 on a saw will cut into that savings, especially when the cheaper one will do everything the more expensive one will do, only slower.
Theres my $.02.


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> I have been thinking about this a lot since I got my new to me 036 a few weeks ago. In 1996 we replaced our ailing and unreliable Sears special Homelite with a brand new 029 with a 20" bar. An enormous Red Oak had fallen at my parent's house and we put some of the insurance money toward purchase of this saw. The first time I used it I was absolutely awe stricken. It was an animal! Able to plunge cut right in to the 30" Oak trunk. The 029 cost about $150 more than the Homelight if I remember correctly and was worth every penny. I used this saw for years, upgrading to full chisel, non safety chain a few years ago. Since I bought my house 8 years ago I have been cutting between 2 and 6 cords per year with my trusty 029. When I started reading and posting here and at Aboristsite I found out that my 029 was actually under powered and over weight. I had no idea. It cut circles around that old Homelite. I started reading about these fancy and expensive pro saws. They sounded pretty awesome to me, but the 029 was working great for me and I owned it already and it had been 100% reliable too. I figured that if I ever had to replace the 029, I might spend a couple bucks and, maybe, upgrade to an MS390, but I could not justify the big $$$ leap to a pro saw. I had used a couple friend's pro saws and was pretty impressed by them, but I was still happy with the old 029. A couple months ago a friend of mine picked up a used 036 for $90. I jokingly told him that I'd give him $100 for it. He brought it over and I tried it out. I was in love! I told him that my $100 offer was serious. Knowing that he is really a Husky guy, I had a feeling he would sell. My wife convinced him to sell it to her for my birthday last month. My impression, Holy Crap! This saw is an animal. About the same improvement as the switch from the Homelite to the 029. I bought a 20" bar for it and it probably cuts twice as fast as the 029 and almost never bogs down. Now, I spent only $100 for this upgrade. With 20" bar the MSRP for an MS290 is $379.95, the MS362 is $689.95. I don't know how my older models compared price wise, but I am guessing it was similar. That is a $300 dollar difference. A big jump. The MS362 costs only $70 less than 2 MS290s would cost. The bigger saw does cut faster, but I can't load the truck or split and stack any faster though.
> Is the $310 a justifiable expense for a 4-5 cord per year firewood cutter? I still don't think so. But, if you come a cross a great deal on a good used one, jump on it!
> I went from 56.5 cc to 61.5 and chain speed went from 12,500 rpm to 13,500 rpm. Weight dropped a negligible .4 lbs.
> As always, only you know what you can afford and what you want to pay. A quality mid range saw will serve you very well. A quality pro saw will serve you better, but cutting is only a small part of the whole firewood process. Also keep in mind that most of us burn wood to save money. Spending an extra $300 on a saw will cut into that savings, especially when the cheaper one will do everything the more expensive one will do, only slower.
> Theres my $.02.




4 cords a year I would settle for a ms 250..But My 10-12 cords a year means you have to be able to do any tree at any time. With havering the bigger saw means I get the best of the best...Nice clean big curly twisted awesome firewood. It is a bigger task to split as well, but thats where I fill more comfortable...Small top handle saw and a 70cc saw there not much you will ever need to pass on.


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## MasterMech (Aug 10, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> I have been thinking about this a lot since I got my new to me 036 a few weeks ago. In 1996 we replaced our ailing and unreliable Sears special Homelite with a brand new 029 with a 20" bar. An enormous Red Oak had fallen at my parent's house and we put some of the insurance money toward purchase of this saw. The first time I used it I was absolutely awe stricken. It was an animal! Able to plunge cut right in to the 30" Oak trunk. The 029 cost about $150 more than the Homelight if I remember correctly and was worth every penny. I used this saw for years, upgrading to full chisel, non safety chain a few years ago. Since I bought my house 8 years ago I have been cutting between 2 and 6 cords per year with my trusty 029. When I started reading and posting here and at Aboristsite I found out that my 029 was actually under powered and over weight. I had no idea. It cut circles around that old Homelite. I started reading about these fancy and expensive pro saws. They sounded pretty awesome to me, but the 029 was working great for me and I owned it already and it had been 100% reliable too. I figured that if I ever had to replace the 029, I might spend a couple bucks and, maybe, upgrade to an MS390, but I could not justify the big $$$ leap to a pro saw. I had used a couple friend's pro saws and was pretty impressed by them, but I was still happy with the old 029. A couple months ago a friend of mine picked up a used 036 for $90. I jokingly told him that I'd give him $100 for it. He brought it over and I tried it out. I was in love! I told him that my $100 offer was serious. Knowing that he is really a Husky guy, I had a feeling he would sell. My wife convinced him to sell it to her for my birthday last month. My impression, Holy Crap! This saw is an animal. About the same improvement as the switch from the Homelite to the 029. I bought a 20" bar for it and it probably cuts twice as fast as the 029 and almost never bogs down. Now, I spent only $100 for this upgrade. With 20" bar the MSRP for an MS290 is $379.95, the MS362 is $689.95. I don't know how my older models compared price wise, but I am guessing it was similar. That is a $300 dollar difference. A big jump. The MS362 costs only $70 less than 2 MS290s would cost. The bigger saw does cut faster, but I can't load the truck or split and stack any faster though.
> Is the $310 a justifiable expense for a 4-5 cord per year firewood cutter? I still don't think so. But, if you come a cross a great deal on a good used one, jump on it!
> I went from 56.5 cc to 61.5 and chain speed went from 12,500 rpm to 13,500 rpm. Weight dropped a negligible .4 lbs.
> As always, only you know what you can afford and what you want to pay. A quality mid range saw will serve you very well. A quality pro saw will serve you better, but cutting is only a small part of the whole firewood process. Also keep in mind that most of us burn wood to save money. Spending an extra $300 on a saw will cut into that savings, especially when the cheaper one will do everything the more expensive one will do, only slower.
> Theres my $.02.



I'd never consider a 029/MS290 "underpowered".  It sure doesn't offer the power to weight ratio's it's pro saw cousin's do but last I checked the MS290 was selling for about $379 (full MSRP) with a 20" bar.  That's a steal and prob. the biggest reason Stihl sells more MS290's than any other model. (MS250/MS290 were big movers when I was sellin' 'em.)

The 029/MS290, MS310, MS390 are all built on the same chassis with the only improvements being engine displacement/output and the deco valve on the MS390. The powerhead weights were identical up & down that family of saws!  This family is also a great example of KISS reliability and ease of service.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 10, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> I'd never consider a 029/MS290 "underpowered".  It sure doesn't offer the power to weight ratio's it's pro saw cousin's do but last I checked the MS290 was selling for about $379 (full MSRP) with a 20" bar.  That's a steal and prob. the biggest reason Stihl sells more MS290's than any other model. (MS250/MS290 were big movers when I was sellin' 'em.)



That's kinda what I was trying to say. As I said, I only found out about the "overweight / underpowered" thing when I started reading chainsaw related forums. My 029 has been 100% reliable and has done everything I ever asked it do. Pro saws are nice, and they should be with their premium price, but I still think that for a 4-5 cord per year firewood cutter a quality mid range saw is the best bang for your buck. That fancy saw won't load, unload, split, or stack the wood any faster, and that is where the bulk work in firewood is. Save the pro saw money and buy some work saving tools like pickeroons, Peaveys, good splitting tools, good chains and the tools to sharpen them, some PPE, and you will be better off.


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## smokinj (Aug 10, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> MasterMech said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If your a numbers guy makes more Cents to buy the pro saw.....Unless your planning on buying one saw and using it till death do you apart. Resell is Awesome on a pro saw!


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## Flatbedford (Aug 10, 2011)

It won't cut any wood for you if you sell though.


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## smokinj (Aug 10, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> It won't cut any wood for you if you sell though.



No but I have ran several pro saw for a year for free. 260, 361 and 036 all put me in net numbers. 2 out of the 3 I bought new aswell. Dont know if the ebay market is still that strong. 
The saws I have now I hope to keep, but if money ever gets real tight I know where to get some quick. The stihl line up 200t ,360's 440's 460's 660's 880's will always be Hot tickets. For me a couple hundred more up front to get it on the back end and not lose the over all investment and run an awesome saw while doing is just Smart.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 10, 2011)

Valid point, Jay, but like an old boss of mine used to say, "You buy a car ( or chainsaw ) to drive it, damnit, not to sell it.


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## smokinj (Aug 10, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> Valid point, Jay, but like an old boss of mine used to say, "You buy a car ( or chainsaw ) to drive it, damnit, not to sell it.




I keep both in mind with everything I touch...Chainsaws I drive wot.  :cheese:


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## MasterMech (Aug 10, 2011)

Somewhere in another thread I think I said one of the biggest differences between a "pro" and "farm" saw was how the operator felt at the end of the day.  Talk durability and power to weight  until your blue in the face -- If you cut more than 30min - 1hr at a time, your hands and arms will thank you for the far superior AV systems in pro saws.  Buy the best you can afford.  Nobody ever regrets buying a quality tool that they genuinely enjoy using.


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## TreePointer (Aug 10, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> Somewhere in another thread I think I said one of the biggest differences between a "pro" and "farm" saw was how the operator felt at the end of the day.  Talk durability and power to weight  until your blue in the face -- If you cut more than 30min - 1hr at a time, your hands and arms will thank you for the far superior AV systems in pro saws.  Buy the best you can afford.  Nobody ever regrets buying a quality tool that they genuinely enjoy using.



That's the main reason why I switched from a 290 to a 361.  I can cut longer and my hands and arms don't vibrate well after I quit working.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

MasterMech said:
			
		

> ... your hands and arms will thank you for the far superior AV systems in pro saws.  Buy the best you can afford.  Nobody ever regrets buying a quality tool that they genuinely enjoy using.



That is the Numero Uno reason why I ended up biting the bullet and investing in pro saws.  All of my most used saws have incredibly low felt vibes, not just low vibe numbers.  I'm not a test machine, I'm flesh and bone (OK... and a lot of fat) and I tried models from many brands before settling with these saws:

RedMax 3200 EZ
Dolmar 420
Husky 339XP
Husky 346XP
Husky 357XP

These five saws I can use all day long without the vibes making my carpal tunnel act up and my hands turn to boards.  My Echo 306 is a fun little saw to trim with, but it vibrates badly.  After only about 15 minutes of use, my hands are buzzing and I'm ready to put it down.  The similar-sized RedMax 3200 is basically vibration-free, at least in an amount you'd notice.  Cuts real good for a tiny 32cc saw, too.  There really is nothing like using the best tool for the job, turns work into pleasure.


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## Battenkiller (Aug 10, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> 260, 361 and 036 all put me in net numbers. 2 out of the 3 I bought new aswell. Dont know if the ebay market is still that strong.



SJ I tried to buy that 361 off you when you had it on E-bay, but I was stunned to see how quickly it went over what I was willing to pay for it.  It was a pretty clean saw, though, IIRC.  What'd you get for that saw anyway?


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## smokinj (Aug 10, 2011)

Battenkiller said:
			
		

> smokinjay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




545.00 and bought it with tax new for 525.00 and used it for a year. Nice saw just enough guys around me all have them. (for a couple years I was getting 15% off) My 880 I could only get 10%


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## Countryboymo (Aug 11, 2011)

If you go to a saw shop that has some saws to hold even just when running will give a pretty good idea how much better the pro saw is balanced and the difference in vibration.  It is not even comparable to riding/driving a base model pickup vs the higher trim option.  Some of the base saws have much better engine components and the engines themselves are better balanced and built.


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