# Chimney: clean/needs cleaned/house about to burn down!



## Stevenmverrill (Jan 6, 2016)

So i have been trying to read up on creosote. Learning a good bit! But, still a big question remains. 

  What does a clean chimney look like?

   What does a chimney in need of cleaning look like?

   What does a dangerous chimney look like?

  Just bough an old farm house with a nice old wood stove insert. I whipped  a chain in the flue pulled the stove out cleaned that, then cleaned the flared out part of the chimney with a shovel. Filled up a contractor bag half way. 

  Had been using the stove with great results. Being new to burning inside i checked the flue from up top after a month of use. 

  After some reading i think i understand the black coating to be dangerous? That said i have stopped burning. What action do i need to take? Is it normal? 

  Thanks

Two pics of my flue:


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2016)

Looks like glaze is starting. That's not good, but good for you for stopping and asking.

What stove is this? Is it connected to the chimney or slammed in with no connection?


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 6, 2016)

Guess i would call it slamed in. The output of the stove is probably 4" x 9" ( rectangle)that goes into a cover plate. The chimney flue is probably 12x12. 

  I know i have been burning less then good wood. (Standing dead hard wood) nothing like buying a house on November 20th that has oil heat with an empty tank lol.since bought 150gal of oil but would much rather burn the free stuff that gives you a free work out too.  

  Ill add pic of stove. Any advice to diy the glaze away?

Thanks for the quick reply!


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## bholler (Jan 6, 2016)

I see A glazed chimney with atleast one cracked flue tile and a slammer install i would say that qualifies as dangerous.


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2016)

The stove, the poor wood and the way it's connected are all causing the problem. Combined they make a dangerous cocktail. Glaze creosote is hard to remove. There are some products like cre-away that can help make it easier to remove but that may only be available to a professional.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 6, 2016)

Hard to tell from the pic, but it does look look like it's starting to glaze . . . combine that with a few other issues and I would be concerned with burning wood in the chimney as it is now.


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 6, 2016)

firefighterjake said:


> Hard to tell from the pic, but it does look look like it's starting to glaze . . . combine that with a few other issues and I would be concerned with burning wood in the chimney as it is now.




Thanks for all the quick good info every one. What is apparent in the pic suggesting a broken tile? If its top section top of screen that was my knife. 

  I did read up on flue volume a little bit, and the taper on top of the would be fire place is were the bolk of the accumulation was. 

  So what is a solution to "slammer" problems? Could i plumb some 24ga from the stove output to the flue? Maybe clean point up the masonry, then run a steel pipe up? 

  I would love to get the thrng running agan. 

  But.. if it will end up costing more then 340$ i will call the oil man and save it for next years problems. Hoping to get it running safely though.


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## bholler (Jan 6, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> What is apparent in the pic suggesting a broken tile?


The crack running down the tile in the second pic.



Stevenmverrill said:


> So what is a solution to "slammer" problems? Could i plumb some 24ga from the stove output to the flue? Maybe clean point up the masonry, then run a steel pipe up?


A stainless liner from the stove to the top of the chimney.  And yes it will cost more than $340


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2016)

An insulated stainless steel liner will make it safe. It will need an adapter to connect to the stove. The cost will depend on the chimney height. That doesn't solve the damp wood issue... Oil is cheap this year and that maybe the safest bet if there aren't funds to make this right. If that's the case, stack the wood with the top covered so that it seasons properly for next year.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 6, 2016)

But he can spend the rest of this winter getting the free work-out prepping wood for next year


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 8, 2016)

Desided to get some pic's looking up. And some thoughts on what you all see.

  I was thinking about an exhoust on a car. Yea if you clean it it will be clean for a day or 2. But, it will get coated in soot in no time.

  So... is a sooty chimney nor


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 8, 2016)

Sorry fat thumb hit send erly.

  So how do you tell the difference between soot and creasot? Or is the soot not normal?  Thinking back to my childhood is why im trying to shed more light on this. I recall all fire places being covered in black. Some pic's of a safe flue would help me a lot. 

  Scaning this place i have seen much more build up getting called time to clean.


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 8, 2016)

Pic


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## bholler (Jan 8, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> So how do you tell the difference between soot and creasot? Or is the soot not normal? Thinking back to my childhood is why im trying to shed more light on this. I recall all fire places being covered in black. Some pic's of a safe flue would help me a lot.


Soot contains creosote but what is typically called soot is much lighter and much less flammable than the typical gooey or crusty creosote.  But regardless of that your install is unsafe.  It is a slammer in a chimney with cracked tiles and open cores in the smoke chamber any one of those problems should be enough to not use it but the combination is scary.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 8, 2016)

steven, listen to bholler and gain as much info as you can as he is a certified sweep ... chimneys are his business


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 8, 2016)

Looks like no inside fire for me this year:-( 

But, i do have this for outside 

  Thanks for the info guys.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 8, 2016)

Sorry, should have mentioned that begreen knows his stuff too ... just bholler earns a living at it!

Edit:  Is it just me or does the outside stove look more like it should be the inside stove instead of the one inside??  Did you follow that?


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 9, 2016)

Other then the being a slamer. I think the inside one is nice. When i was using it with good wood i could get a smoke free chimney. And loading 30" logs is nice. 

  The outside stove is nice imo but is small. I picked it up for 100$ and do not mind it getting rusty. It works well and is safer then a fire pit. 

   Think next year i will clean then point up what i can reach. Run a sleeve insulate it then plumb a peice flex from the stove To the sleave. Sound like a good idea? 

  On good fuel: what are your thoughts on pine? I work for a flooring company and can get about pickup full of pallet stays a week. Sticking my moisture meter prongs in them they are 10-20% now. I have a section of my shed i can fill with them for next year. 

  See pic what you think? Note i know they are not treated the ones that get left out quickly turn grey, and have used them at bond fires with no abnormal smell or smoke.


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## bholler (Jan 9, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> Think next year i will clean then point up what i can reach. Run a sleeve insulate it then plumb a peice flex from the stove To the sleave. Sound like a good idea?


If you are running a liner no need to point inside just clean away all and i do mean all of the creosote.  Then put in an insulated and properly sized liner from the stove out the top of the chimney.



Stevenmverrill said:


> On good fuel: what are your thoughts on pine? I work for a flooring company and can get about pickup full of pallet stays a week. Sticking my moisture meter prongs in them they are 10-20% now. I have a section of my shed i can fill with them for next year.


Nothing wrong with pine at all aas long as it is 20% or less.  It has much lower btu content than hardwoods and it will burn fast but it will burn and make heat


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 10, 2016)

Don't burn that pine until you made your setup safe with a liner at the very least, Dry pine is a good wood to use (many of us burn it during the fall and spring months) Pine has a tendency to burn hot and fast, that combination in your existing setup could prove failure for you and your house with a chimney fire. The hot all at once flue gases could lite the existing creosote and the cracks in your masonry could lead that fire to the structure of your house.
I've worked in Fredrick many times and like the town (power company) Take a ride to tractor supply or homedepot and look at some of the new stoves there, you may be able to fit a free standing unit in the fire place and have to run a 6" liner vs and 8" for your beast, plus the stoves are on sale atm the moment and both stores offer financing if money is tight.


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 10, 2016)

Thanks. I did stop burning. I will have to check out tsc. 

  Money is not tight yet. Im completely renovating the house and will run out of money at the speed im going. (Uper levle with bath is complete, kitchen/dining room allmost complete, still have reck room, family room mud room and Landry room to do) 

   Pretty much i need to prioritize what i spen on. If i can fix the chimney for less then what i would pay in oil it would make sense this year. But i dont think thats the case.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> . If i can fix the chimney for less then what i would pay in oil it would make sense this year. But i dont think thats the case.


I doubt you will be able to do that


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## fbelec (Jan 11, 2016)

careful with the pine 4x4 you plan on burning. the green ones look like pressure treated to me. if you burn pressure treated it lets off poison gas


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## Stevenmverrill (Jan 12, 2016)

I stopped by my local tsc today. They did not have much in stock. But i did get a 1.5k space heater for 20$ im doing concrete countertops in my garage, and want to keep ok temps. I am verry impressed by this little guy. Garage is holding 65 in 30 ambient with 0 insulation. 

   I was going to buy a kerosene heater but it said kerosene only. Any one know if you can use diesel if its a ventilated area?


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## Stevenmverrill (Mar 5, 2016)

So thanks for all the advice! Time for an update...

So the 1100 ussc that i was useing outside is now the inside stove. Being that i paid 100$ for it had no clue its a 13mfd epa comp. Stove. I sanded off the surfice rust and sprayed it. The over all look of it in my basment is great imo.

  So the chimney story...
I made a chain tool and cleaned the flue. Was not completely satisfied with it.

  I had a mold mitigation to do in my basement. I paid a friend to help with the demo. Turns out i had to work late the day starting demo, and my friend started by him self. So..., i come home to a verry worm house. He was burning all the shoe, base, crown, and furing strips in the stove lol. Considering i allredy had the room isolated, air scurber running and we only entered with respirators on i went with it.

  Since i must say, the remaining  "glaze" from the wet wood i was burning became sooty,soft and was relly ezay to clean off the flue, and fire box with the poley brush i have now.

  Although not stainless i now have a 6" 24ga liner as of a few hours ago. 

  Inspite of being 1/2 the size this little guy cranks! Burning pine at 1/2-3/4 air and its 84° in the basement, 75 in the above famley room, with the furthest bed room on the upper level at 68. Although i got 10-15 degrees better ambient then testing (41° curintly) with the old stove the house is well insolated and the old stove could not come close.

  Please note house is under reno, and i have not cleaned up since finshing the stove


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## begreen (Mar 5, 2016)

Congratulations on progress. The liner must be stainless. Regular steel is not allowed for a chimney liner. It will rot quickly and that can lead to CO leakage into the house.


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## Stevenmverrill (Mar 5, 2016)

begreen said:


> Congratulations on progress. The liner must be stainless. Regular steel is not allowed for a chimney liner. It will rot quickly and that can lead to CO leakage into the house.




 Thanks.  Next yeay for stainless. I got fire rope around the adaptor plate, and calk on pipe seams. (nothing could leak in even if it wanted) 

  So questions: what prolonged temperature can drywall/paint handle? 110°f is what i see on top of the stove. I wraped the suport beam (wood) in slate but now unshure if the dry wall work will start to fail?


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## Stevenmverrill (Mar 5, 2016)

123


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## begreen (Mar 5, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> So questions: what prolonged temperature can drywall/paint handle? 110°f is what i see on top of the stove. I wraped the suport beam (wood) in slate but now unshure if the dry wall work will start to fail?


110F is not too hot. It's ok up to around 170F IIRC. However, the stove manual may say 84" ceiling height required.


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## bholler (Mar 6, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> Thanks. Next yeay for stainless. I got fire rope around the adaptor plate, and calk on pipe seams. (nothing could leak in even if it wanted)


that caulk will be burnt off really quickly.  Did you run stove pipe the entire length of the chimney?


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## Stevenmverrill (Mar 6, 2016)

bholler said:


> that caulk will be burnt off really quickly.  Did you run stove pipe the entire length of the chimney?




 Yes. 18' an elbow past the old damper and an elbow to the fire box cover plate. i take it that calk dose not hold up? Its "rutland black stove calk" i must say that draft relly helps this thing burn. 9' when it was out side must not have been enugh. 

  So i only see secondery burn shortly after loading it or when i crank it up past 3/4 air. Is that normal? Burning pine im scared to walk away from it with more then 3/4 air. I will say once it has a bead of coals and other then the first 2-3 min after loading its smokeless so i guess thats good.


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## bholler (Mar 6, 2016)

Stevenmverrill said:


> Yes. 18' an elbow past the old damper and an elbow to the fire box cover plate. i take it that calk dose not hold up? Its "rutland black stove calk" i must say that draft relly helps this thing burn. 9' when it was out side must not have been enugh.


Well that is furnace cement not caulk it will hold up to the temps but will crack and fall out really quickly.  And regardless that will not stop the inevitable corrosion that will quickly destroy that pipe and make it a very dangerous install.


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## begreen (Mar 6, 2016)

Did you say that the stove pipe liner is only 9 feet? If so, that is insufficient and may be the cause of the weak secondary performance.


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## Lake Girl (Mar 6, 2016)

begreen said:


> Did you say that the stove pipe liner is only 9 feet? If so, that is insufficient and may be the cause of the weak secondary performance.


18' now begreen .... previous location was only 9'.


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## begreen (Mar 6, 2016)

Yep.


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## Stevenmverrill (Mar 6, 2016)

I have 89" floor to roof so that should be good. Yea 21' total pipe now. Here is a pic all cleaned up.


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## begreen (Mar 6, 2016)

That's good. REgarding the secondaries, it could be that the 90 right off the stove is hurting draft a bit. If temps are mild outside this may be more noticeable.


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