# What to to with this electrical wire by my fireplace.



## bsruther (Nov 4, 2013)

I'm in the process of rebuilding my fireplace and upon removing the old brick facade, I discovered an outlet next to the opening, where my stone will go. 

I want to apply my stone directly to the existing brick, but the wire is in the way. I can eliminate the outlet, but that doesn't get the wire out of the way.

Anyone have any ideas?


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## OH_Varmntr (Nov 4, 2013)

Find where it originates and remove it from that circuit entirely.  Then you can do what you wish with that end of the cable.  I always mark a cable on both ends after removing it from a circuit to indicate that it is no longer part of any live circuit.

If the circuit remains live, the end terminations of that cable need to be accessible in a box per code.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

Will the stove need power for a fan?


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## bsruther (Nov 4, 2013)

OH_Varmntr said:


> Find where it originates and remove it from that circuit entirely.  Then you can do what you wish with that end of the cable.  I always mark a cable on both ends after removing it from a circuit to indicate that it is no longer part of any live circuit.
> 
> If the circuit remains live, the end terminations of that cable need to be accessible in a box per code.



I'll probably try your idea tomorrow, but I'm concerned that whatever is on the rest of the circuit will be too much amp draw to tack on to something else.




begreen said:


> Will the stove need power for a fan?



I've already got a wire that will come into the right side of the fire box, from the garage. It's from one of those old lamposts, out by the driveway. It was ungrounded, dangerous and not needed anyway. And it's in a really convenient place. Even if I use that wire for a stove fan outlet, It still doesn't solve my problem, the wire will still be there.

I may just put up backer board and hide the wire along side of it.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

Do you know where the circuit goes after this outlet? Is the next fixture in line expendable or important? If it's essential note that you can't bury a splice in the line. That splice needs to remain accessible which means keeping the outlet or at least a junction box with a blank cover.


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## OH_Varmntr (Nov 4, 2013)

bsruther said:


> I'll probably try your idea tomorrow, but I'm concerned that whatever is on the rest of the circuit will be too much amp draw to tack on to something else.



I should have clarified what I meant.  If you can follow where this cable comes from and disconnect it from there, then you're all set.  For instance, if you follow it to the previous receptacle up the wall, you can un-wire the cable from that receptacle and be good.  You would basically be removing this receptacle and the wire that feeds it from the rest of the circuit, and the rest of the circuit will work just fine without it.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

It looks like the wire is a pass thru, with the circuit continuing on beyond it,  but maybe I am mistaken. If not, it needs to be determined what else is downstream on this circuit.


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## bsruther (Nov 4, 2013)

begreen said:


> It looks like the wire is a pass thru, with the circuit continuing on beyond it,  but maybe I am mistaken. If not, it needs to be determined what else is downstream on this circuit.


Exactly and that's the cause of my apprehension of rerouting it.
I'll probably put up backer board and route it around it, I just figured maybe someone could come up with something that my feeble mind may have missed. Heck it's only 30 bucks to cover that area with board. It looks like the wire goes off to the left. I've got it pinned back, it goes straight up and exits from the brick.



OH_Varmntr said:


> I should have clarified what I meant.  If you can follow where this cable comes from and disconnect it from there, then you're all set.  For instance, if you follow it to the previous receptacle up the wall, you can un-wire the cable from that receptacle and be good.  You would basically be removing this receptacle and the wire that feeds it from the rest of the circuit, and the rest of the circuit will work just fine without it.



But the thing is, it's part of a continuing circuit and if I remove it, something or things aren't going to work. Even though it disappears into a brick wall, I can figure out where it comes from and where it goes, but I can't take it out of the circuit, unless I'm still misunderstanding what you're saying.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

Turn off the power to the circuit. Break the circuit by removing the receptacle, without cutting any wires or the wire-nutted splice in the box if there is one. Make sure hot wires are temporarily taped or wire-nutted to avoid shorts and shocks. Turn the circuit back on and find out what is not working.


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## bsruther (Nov 4, 2013)

begreen said:


> Turn off the power to the circuit. Break the circuit by removing the receptacle, without cutting any wires or the wire-nutted splice in the box if there is one. Make sure hot wires are temporarily taped or wire-nutted to avoid shorts and shocks. Turn the circuit back on and find out what is not working.


I'll try that tomorrow, I'll be removing the outlet box anyway, thanks.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

Just remember that you will need a box with an exposed cover if a splice is required there to continue the circuit.


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## tfdchief (Nov 4, 2013)

Can you re-rout the line side into the crawl space or the attic and there, install a junction box and rewire in a safe place to the down-stream portion of the circuit?  It looks like the line side come from the attic so the simplest thing would be to pull in up into the attic and install a junction box.  Then, you can run from the junction box down through the wall in some other location away from fireplace, to the down stream part of the circuit, which probably can be connected to with another junction box in the crawl space.


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## fbelec (Nov 5, 2013)

shut it off then disconnect it and pull it back down into the space below like a crawl space or basement. then junction box it. while in the basement run a new wire up the inside of the wall about 6 inches to the left and run the wire coming from above in the wall and reattach to the new outlet. if i read right you have a garage that backs up to the fireplace. if the wire coming from above is to short to run into the wall poke it thru to the garage and box it out there then run a wire from that box to the basement where you already pull down the the wire from the fireplace


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## OH_Varmntr (Nov 5, 2013)

bsruther said:


> But the thing is, it's part of a continuing circuit and if I remove it, something or things aren't going to work. Even though it disappears into a brick wall, I can figure out where it comes from and where it goes, but I can't take it out of the circuit, unless I'm still misunderstanding what you're saying.



That's my fault sorry.  The pic wasn't clear and I should have asked.


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## bsruther (Nov 5, 2013)

begreen said:


> Just remember that you will need a box with an exposed cover if a splice is required there to continue the circuit.


I'll put it in a covered box, but the cover won't be exposed. It will be behind the stone.




tfdchief said:


> Can you re-rout the line side into the crawl space or the attic and there, install a junction box and rewire in a safe place to the down-stream portion of the circuit?  It looks like the line side come from the attic so the simplest thing would be to pull in up into the attic and install a junction box.  Then, you can run from the junction box down through the wall in some other location away from fireplace, to the down stream part of the circuit, which probably can be connected to with another junction box in the crawl space.


I'll take a look at that today. The house electrical panel is directly below and when I looked, I couldn't see a wire that went up to that area. I believe the lower wire goes through the brick, to an outlet on the other side of the wall (garage). If that's the case, I'll just cover the wire with stone and move on.





fbelec said:


> shut it off then disconnect it and pull it back down into the space below like a crawl space or basement. then junction box it. while in the basement run a new wire up the inside of the wall about 6 inches to the left and run the wire coming from above in the wall and reattach to the new outlet. if i read right you have a garage that backs up to the fireplace. if the wire coming from above is to short to run into the wall poke it thru to the garage and box it out there then run a wire from that box to the basement where you already pull down the the wire from the fireplace



If the wire went directly down there, I could do that, but I don't think it does.


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## tfdchief (Nov 5, 2013)

Any junction box must be accessible without altering construction.


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## bsruther (Nov 5, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Any junction box must be accessible without altering construction.


This one won't be. It wasn't accessible before the demolition, when it had a 1-1/2 ton brick wall in front of it.


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## tfdchief (Nov 5, 2013)

bsruther said:


> This one won't be. It wasn't accessible before the demolition, when it had a 1-1/2 ton brick wall in front of it.


Then it was an existing code violation.  Here is your chance to correct it.


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## bsruther (Nov 5, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Then it was an existing code violation.  Here is your chance to correct it.


I'm just looking for ideas of what to do with the wire, not an inspection.
Thanks though.


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## billb3 (Nov 5, 2013)

bsruther said:


> I'm just looking for ideas of what to do with the wire, not an inspection.
> Thanks though.







valid concern though.
If you've ever had a splice ( wire nuts) loosen with temp, changes, vibration, etc. and they do go bad, hidden in the wall will drive someone nuts some day. Could potentially become an expensive electrical problem, and loose connections have been known to cause fires.

I've had to rip a wall apart to find a buried box and a splice connection that was causing a row of outlets to go open every time a truck hit  a repaired section of asphalt in the street  out front of the house. Resetting the VCR and alarm  clock time gets old real quick.


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## bsruther (Nov 5, 2013)

I will probably solder the wires, before insulating them, so that should make a good permanent connection.
I can't even remember how many splices I've corrected in this house, but there have been many and none of them had junction boxes.
This will have a junction box and set in the wall with a cover. 

The wall in the picture separates the garage from the house. It's brick for it's entire length, covered by 3/4" wall board/plaster.
I found where the wire originates in the basement and all of the outlets it powers, but I'd have to reroute it on an inside wall 
and that's just not practical right now.

I really do appreciate all of the ideas, but I'm just looking for the best way to get the wire out of the way.

 Welp, off to the store to get some bricks and mortar, time to set the lintel and brick it in.


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## OH_Varmntr (Nov 5, 2013)

billb3 said:


> and loose connections have been known to cause fires.



Bingo.  That's exactly how codes become what they are.

I'm an electrician, and when you deal with the problems that are created by people's lack of willingness to follow code or just plain old lack of sense, it gets really old really quick.


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## bsruther (Nov 5, 2013)

So, I am lacking sense now?


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## seige101 (Nov 5, 2013)

bsruther said:


> So, I am lacking sense now?


Yes

/electrician


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## tfdchief (Nov 5, 2013)

seige101 said:


> Yes
> 
> /electrician


I am not a moderator but at this point I would say the OP has all the information he wants. And any further conversation is a waist of time.


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## fbelec (Nov 6, 2013)

yep where's the lock


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## billb4 (Nov 7, 2013)

bsruther said:


> I will probably solder the wires, before insulating them, so that should make a good permanent connection.
> I can't even remember how many splices I've corrected in this house, but there have been many and none of them had junction boxes.
> .



Please don't solder solid conductor wire.


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## fbelec (Nov 8, 2013)

here is a legal option. pull the wire down or run new from below. sleeve it thru wire mold. the electrical supply house will know what it is. i think home d and lowes carry it also. put a surface mount wire mold box in place then sleeve the wire that goes up in wire mold and your done. it's legal. it's neat. and you don't lose a outlet that might be needed in the future


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## fbelec (Nov 8, 2013)

and it's easy to do.


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## bsruther (Nov 8, 2013)

Thanks fbelec.
This wire mold, is that the exposed conduit that runs down the wall? Like what I have in the bedroom to hide the wires from the wall mounted flat screen? That may be an option.

In the next few days, after I get my hearth brick laid, I'm going to get up in the attic and see if I can reroute the wire on the adjacent inside wall, it may not be as much of a pain as I thought.
The wire at the bottom won't pull down, it runs through brick. That's not a problem though since it runs from a nearby junction box.


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## begreen (Nov 8, 2013)

Sound goods. The wiring was done wrong. This is the chance to fix the error of someone burying it in the wall. Our house has several of these shortcuts. I fix them whenever I run into them. We all just want you to be safe.


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## fbelec (Nov 9, 2013)

the stuff that i'm talking about is metal. it's kind of square looking and is white or ivory. drill a new hole to downstairs up against the brick and run a new wire to where the old one connects to and sleeve the attic wire thru wire mold it will be a quick fix that way. or do what you said and run a new wire down a adjacent wall and junction it up in the attic. both good ways of doing it and legal code wise.


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## bsruther (Nov 11, 2013)

There, it's done.


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## begreen (Nov 11, 2013)

Honey, what happened to the bathroom lights?!


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## bsruther (Nov 11, 2013)

begreen said:


> Honey, what happened to the bathroom lights?!


Long as her hair dryer plug works, it won't be a problem.

One thing I won't mess with are three way switches. I'll install one, but I won't touch an existing one.


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## heat seeker (Nov 11, 2013)

begreen said:


> Honey, what happened to the bathroom lights?!



Why do you need lights? Don't you know where everything is by now???


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## fbelec (Nov 11, 2013)

h


bsruther said:


> There, it's done.
> 
> View attachment 117392



how did it go? what did you wind up doing? is that a romex in the fire box?


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## bsruther (Nov 12, 2013)

fbelec said:


> h
> 
> 
> how did it go? what did you wind up doing? is that a romex in the fire box?


It sucked, I absolutely hate getting up in the attic, that's the main reason I didn't want to do it. I pulled the wire up and cut it, since it wasn't long enough to make it back down to the basement, put a junction box in and ran romex down the adjacent wall to the basement. Removed the old supply wire from nearby junction box and replaced it with the new romex. Fishing it through the wall was the worst part of it, but the boxed area above the kitchen cabinets exposed the underside of the wall header and that helped a little. The piece of romex in the box is for an outlet for the stove blower.


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## fbelec (Nov 13, 2013)

sorry about the attic. i too hate attics crawling around in attics is for the young not me. and i have to make sure i have masks and cough drops. but on the brighter side is. it's done right and you should be able to sleep better knowing that your family and you are safe. make sure you let us see the finished product


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