# Have Omicron?  can't smell pvc cement.



## gzecc (Jan 3, 2022)

Coming off a Covid infection.  Am able to work around the house now.  Gluing some schedule 40 pvc together.  Can't smell it. 
Also lost some weight from it.


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## begreen (Jan 3, 2022)

Bummer, sorry to hear that. Hope this passes soon. It can affect sense of taste too.


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## clancey (Jan 3, 2022)

I had that smell problem too and still get it on and off but it does come back in the moment you do not expect it to come back--lol..I personally think it has to do with other things rather than just covert as well. But its a drag and I was always trying to sniff around to make sure my environment did not smell especially when I had company so I was cleaning sinks and stuff before my company got to my house...silly me...It does take awhile so be patient...clancey


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## Prof (Jan 3, 2022)

I never had covid symptoms, but over the last month the kids were complaining that the food was too spicy. Turns out I can't taste pepper or most other seasonings. Also, salsa tastes like what I imagine a dirty sock would taste like.  (My 9 y.o. was quick to ask me how I know what dirty socks taste like, so I'm a it more careful with how I describe things.) Things seem to be improving slowly though.


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## stoveliker (Jan 3, 2022)

clancey said:


> I had that smell problem too and still get it on and off but it does come back in the moment you do not expect it to come back--lol..I personally think it has to do with other things rather than just covert as well. But its a drag and I was always trying to sniff around to make sure my environment did not smell especially when I had company so I was cleaning sinks and stuff before my company got to my house...silly me...It does take awhile so be patient...clancey


lol, that (checking for cleanliness) only happened here when my parents or in-laws visit. 
Given that all family is overseas, no in-person visit (either direction) has happened since the summer of '19.
I am trying to avoid thinking what work my home needs if people start to visit here again 

Hope all get better soon, and can enjoy good food (and drinks...) again. Such enjoyment is important in life. At least for me.

@Prof It appears 9 (and 11) y.o.'s are the same everywhere... Carefully watching myself how I explain things to them...


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## tlc1976 (Jan 3, 2022)

My dad was at a customer’s factory recently and the customer had a truck inside that was leaking gas. My dad put some under the guy’s nose and he still couldn’t smell it. Customer later got a test and was positive. That’s what I would fear most about Covid, not being able to smell gas leaks, smoke, bad food… So far I’ve either not had it or had no symptoms.

My daughter had the original Covid and it knocked her out bad for 2 weeks, and lost taste and smell for months. Then she said clean outside air smelled like fish (didn’t live near a lake). And all food tasted like chemicals.

Long before Covid was in the world, we both thought Little Caesers cheese bread and soft taco shells smelled like dirty feet.


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## stoveliker (Jan 3, 2022)

tlc1976 said:


> Long before Covid was in the world, we both thought Little Caesers cheese bread and soft taco shells smelled like dirty feet.


I still think the latter... Without having had COVID :D


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## ispinwool (Jan 6, 2022)

Hubby and I had covid early in 2020...He never lost his taste/smell but ended up hospitalized with double
pneumonia.  I only had 'mild flu symptoms' and lost my taste/smell (and my cooking proved it! LOL)
It affects everyone differently so it's hard to pinpoint--one of my knitting friends (who had come to knitting
group on Tues) tested positive yesterday and only had a stuffy nose/mild cold symptoms and was
completely unaware that she had it.


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## festerw (Jan 6, 2022)

I tested positive 12/30 before I even had symptoms, we tested after vacation just to be safe. Wife and daughter both tested negative and still have no symptoms. I sent in another test yesterday (they're free for me through work) and they are heading to CVS to retest this evening.

Symptoms started the next day with a runny nose and cough, then progressed to head/body aches. As of Wednesday nothing but fatigue a headache with any moderate activity.

Fortunately my Union negotiated 15 paid days off so I've got plenty of time if I need it.


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## gzecc (Jan 6, 2022)

Omicron fortunately isn't as severe as previous version.


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2022)

gzecc said:


> Omicron fortunately isn't as severe as previous version.


What it lacks in super-strength it makes up for in massive volume. Our hospitals, already stressed and fatigued, are overwhelmed.


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## stoveliker (Jan 7, 2022)

The issue with the last two remarks is that for the *individual* it is fortunate that this variant is less severe (better: has a lower probability to make one get severe disease). But for the society as a whole the higher infection rate can still cause problems, as noted above. (And note that that CAN result in problems for individuals, if you're one of the unlucky ones that do get severe disease from this, or otherwise have to go to the hospital.)

This is the conflict between doing what's right for oneself versus doing what would help the society as a whole (aka here as "the USA").

 While the USA always was more individualistic, and Europe a bit more "collective", I see things going to the individualistic direction there too. I find that a pity (here and there).

This is what I appreciate on this website: people ask questions, and as a result people help. For free (mostly, I think). 

So, keep up the good work here. Helping others. 

And now my philosophical mood is over - aka, need to reload the stove.

Be safe, all.


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2022)

stoveliker said:


> For free (mostly, I think).


Entirely. Moderators lost the corporate jet privileges years ago. We don't even get to use the executive bathroom.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

Omicron is nothing more than a bad cold or mild flu. Our local hospitals here are not stressed or fatigued. If hospitals are over-loaded it is because of the media hyping it as the "black death". People are in a frenzy over something that isn't severe. Pandemic of the unvaccinated - what a hoot. Joe Biden's advisors are urging him to change his position because the latest data does not support his vaccine mandate position. Can you quote me deaths from Omicron? Probably not. The devastating effect on our children from schools closing is much more severe. Even today in the Supreme Court, Judge Sotomayor said Omicron is as bad as Delta, and she also said there are over 100,000 children in the hospital across the US with many on ventilators. This is simply not true. Stop watching the mainstream media and look at the available data. The virus has become a national psychosis.


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## BigJ273 (Jan 7, 2022)

I haven’t been able to smell since September. Just a very putrid chemical smell. Gets stronger when i eat any kind of protein


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Omicron is nothing more than a bad cold or mild flu. Our local hospitals here are not stressed or fatigued. If hospitals are over-loaded it is because of the media hyping it as the "black death". People are in a frenzy over something that isn't severe. Pandemic of the unvaccinated - what a hoot. Joe Biden's advisors are urging him to change his position because the latest data does not support his vaccine mandate position. Can you quote me deaths from Omicron? Probably not. The devastating effect on our children from schools closing is much more severe. Even today in the Supreme Court, Judge Sotomayor said Omicron is much worse than Delta, and she also said there are over 100,000 children in the hospital with many on ventilators. This is simply not true. Stop watching the mainstream media and look at the available data. The virus has become a national psychosis.


They absolutely are overloaded here in central pa.  My best friends father had a heart attack and ended up sitting in the hallway of the ER for 9 hours in a wheelchair being treated.  I prefer to talk to my friends who are nurses to learn what is actually going on.


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## stoveliker (Jan 7, 2022)

begreen said:


> Entirely. Moderators lost the corporate jet privileges years ago. We don't even get to use the executive bathroom.



Of course, I understand the latter. The executive bathroom is the tree in the backyard. And that either should remain healthy and nice or should become fire wood. No bathroom services allowed.


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## stoveliker (Jan 7, 2022)

Ok. I apologize. My post was not intended to make this political. It was intended to incite behavior good for the common good. I'll stop here as I don't want to have this deteriorate more because if my doing.

I wish all the best.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

bholler said:


> They absolutely are overloaded here in central pa.  My best friends father had a heart attack and ended up sitting in the hallway of the ER for 9 hours in a wheelchair being treated.  I prefer to talk to my friends who are nurses to learn what is actually going on.


Once again, they may be overloaded, but there is no need for that. Omicron is no more than a bad cold or mild flu. It passes within a few days unless one has major/MAJOR comorbidities, and even then, it is nothing like we saw before.. Folks are flocking to hospitals because they are afraid after hearing all the doomsday crap on the news. Do a little independent research and stop spreading fear?


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

stoveliker said:


> Ok. My post was not intended to make this political. It was intended to incite behavior good for the common good. I'll stop here as I don't want to have this deteriorate more because if my doing.
> 
> I wish all the best.


My response had nothing to do with your post...Just an FYI.

BTW...this is not political. It is fact versus hysteria. The facts do not back up most of what has been put in this thread. I really wish people would stop relying on the media...whether it is MSNBC or others of their ilk OR FOX and other conservative stations. Both have agendas! Start researching and reading the raw data that is available if you wish to know the truth.


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2022)

The point is well taken. Most Omicron cases can stay at home if they were vaccinated. It's the unvaccianted that are overloading the hospitals. Some are taking up critical beds for as much as 200 days.  They should be moved to nursing care facilities but often state laws prevent that.

The other tragic casualty from triaging the unvaccinated is the very young.








						Hospitalizations skyrocket in kids too young for COVID shots
					

Hospitalizations of U.S. children under 5 with COVID-19 soared in recent weeks to their highest level since the pandemic began, according to government data released Friday on the only age group not yet eligible for the vaccine.




					apnews.com


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## stoveliker (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> My response had nothing to do with your post...Just an FYI.
> 
> BTW...this is not political. It is fact versus hysteria. The facts do not back up most of what has been put in this thread. I really wish people would stop relying on the media...whether it is MSNBC or others of their ilk OR FOX and other conservative stations. Both have agendas! Start researching and reading the raw data that is available if you wish to know the truth.



Ok.  Then I misunderstood the reason for your post.

My facts are from my wife, who works in the hospital.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

begreen said:


> It's the unvaccianted that are overloading the hospitals. Some are taking up critical beds for as much as 200 days.
> 
> The other tragic casualty from triaging the unvaccinated is the very young.
> 
> ...


Omicron hasn't even been around for 200 days. Maybe these are Delta Patients, and I highly suspect the quote off 200 days. Untrue on the unvaccinated once again. The raw data does NOT show this to be true. Show me data, not news stories put out by the media whether liberal or conservative. It also has been shown that the great majority of kids in the hospital have NOT been admitted/treated BECAUSE of Omicron, but they happen to have Omicron when admitted/treated with few or NO symptoms. Major, HUGE difference. Once again, where are you getting your info? Stop spreading false information.


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2022)

Not made up, nor imagined, this report was from our WSHA chief yesterday.








						Washington hospitals ‘closer to a crisis situation’ than ever before amid omicron surge
					

The Washington State Medical Association sent a letter Thursday asking state leaders to declare a crisis for medical facilities statewide.




					www.king5.com
				




According to the DOH, 93.5% of covid deaths as of Nov were unvaccinated.


> ...but happen to have Omicron when admitted/treated.


As stated in the factual article. The number has doubled leading to the plea for parents and caregivers in contact with children to get vaccinated.  It's bad enough that they are sick, without the added risks of covid.


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## tlc1976 (Jan 7, 2022)

A few days ago one county in lower Michigan reported their first detected omicron case. Today’s news has another lower Michigan county detecting their first omicron case. Yet we have been breaking records for new cases for quite some time. It’s gotta be primarily Delta still, at least in some places.

Just over a week ago I suffered through another bowel blockage. I would have gone to the hospital if it weren’t for the Covid situation, because I could get a rupture and die. So I took my chances and stayed home. Finally feeling somewhat ok today thankfully. Last two required surgery.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Once again, they may be overloaded, but there is no need for that. Omicron is no more than a bad cold or mild flu. It passes within a few days unless one has major/MAJOR comorbidities, and even then, it is nothing like we saw before.. Folks are flocking to hospitals because they are afraid after hearing all the doomsday crap on the news. Do a little independent research and stop spreading fear?


They may go to the hospital but they won't be admitted unless they need to be.  

Again talking to a couple of my friends who are in hospitals dealing with this everyday first hand is all the research I need to do.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

And, that has been changing day by day since November. November is ancient history as far as this virus is concerned. More and more vaccinated are getting sick now. Soon, it will most likely surpass the unvaccinated. The raw data is clear. Amazing the most vaccinated country in the world, Israel, is talking about a 4th (and even 5th) booster as they reach record high Covid cases and deaths since the start of the pandemic. And, they are not alone. You really think this vaccination is working? No scientific studies that show it protects against Covid or lessens symptoms, just people saying so without factual proof.  I've yet to find a scientific study that proves it. All talking points from the media and those that have a financial investment in the vaccination. Listen, I have no desire to go back-and-forth with you. It tires me to debate with someone who is truly uniformed except for what he wants to believe. I have said what I want to say. It is impossible to educate someone who does not want to be educated. I will stop here, and just ask you to stop spreading false information. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! It's all in the research; not the media and Google.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

tlc1976 said:


> A few days ago one county in lower Michigan reported their first detected omicron case. Today’s news has another lower Michigan county detecting their first omicron case. Yet we have been breaking records for new cases for quite some time. It’s gotta be primarily Delta still, at least in some places.
> 
> Just over a week ago I suffered through another bowel blockage. I would have gone to the hospital if it weren’t for the Covid situation, because I could get a rupture and die. So I took my chances and stayed home. Finally feeling somewhat ok today thankfully. Last two required surgery.


Yes it absolutely is in some areas.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

tlc1976 said:


> A few days ago one county in lower Michigan reported their first detected omicron case. Today’s news has another lower Michigan county detecting their first omicron case. Yet we have been breaking records for new cases for quite some time. It’s gotta be primarily Delta still, at least in some places.
> 
> Just over a week ago I suffered through another bowel blockage. I would have gone to the hospital if it weren’t for the Covid situation, because I could get a rupture and die. So I took my chances and stayed home. Finally feeling somewhat ok today thankfully. Last two required surgery.


Only 5% of cases in the US now are Delta according to the data. You are much more likely to die of a bowel blockage than Omicron. You are lucky.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> And, that has been changing day by day since November. November is ancient history as far as this virus is concerned. More and more vaccinated are getting sick now. Soon, it will most likely surpass the unvaccinated. The raw data is clear. Amazing the most vaccinated country in the world, Israel, is talking about a 4th (and even 5th) booster as they reach record high Covid cases and deaths since the start of the pandemic. And, they are not alone. You really think this vaccination is working? No scientific studies that show it protects against Covid or lessens symptoms, just people saying so without factual proof.  I've yet to find a scientific study that proves it. All talking points from the media and those that have a financial investment in the vaccination. Listen, I have no desire to go back-and-forth with you. It tires me to debate with someone who is truly uniformed except for what he wants to believe. I have said what I want to say. It is impossible to educate someone who does not want to be educated. I will stop here, and just ask you to stop spreading false information. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! It's all in the research; not the media and Google.


Really?  No scientific studies that show the vaccines help reduce risk of infection or severity of symptoms???

Just because you choose to ignore studies doesn't mean they don't exist.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Only 5% of cases in the US now are Delta according to the data. You are much more likely to die of a bowel blockage than Omicron. You are lucky.


Can you site a source stating that the chances of dying from a bowel blockage is higher than from omicron???


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

bholler said:


> Can you site a source stating that the chances of dying from a bowel blockage is higher than from omicron???


"Bowel obstruction is an important cause of morbidity and mortality accounting for *nearly 30,000 deaths* and more than $3 billion per year in direct medical costs; it is responsible for approximately 15% of hospital admissions for acute abdominal pain in the USA and ~ 20% of cases needing acute surgical care."









						Bowel obstruction: a narrative review for all physicians - World Journal of Emergency Surgery
					

Small and large bowel obstructions are responsible for approximately 15% of hospital admissions for acute abdominal pain in the USA and ~ 20% of cases needing acute surgical care. Starting from the analysis of a common clinical problem, we want to guide primary care physicians in the initial...




					wjes.biomedcentral.com
				




Much more than Omicron.

But, I really must stop here as I said 2 posts ago. You are grasping at straws and tempting me. I think I'll get off the computer for now, since you are really uniformed and wasting my time. Good evening.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Vaccine Effectiveness Studies in the Field | NEJM
					

Editorial from The New England Journal of Medicine — Vaccine Effectiveness Studies in the Field



					www.nejm.org


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> "Bowel obstruction is an important cause of morbidity and mortality accounting for *nearly 30,000 deaths* and more than $3 billion per year in direct medical costs; it is responsible for approximately 15% of hospital admissions for acute abdominal pain in the USA and ~ 20% of cases needing acute surgical care."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well yes many more have died from bowel obstructions than omicron at this point.  That is because omicron is new.  That has nothing to do with statistics


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 7, 2022)

LOL...here I go again. In an earlier post when _we were discussing OMICRON_, you said something about the unvaccinated spending up to 200 days in the hospital as a rebuttal. I told you that Omicron has only been around for a month or so. Now, you say this about bowel obstruction. You are really funny! 🤣 Omicron may have only been around for a short period, but it is nothing more than a bad cold or mild flu. Aren't you listening? 😉

OK, goodnight, my friend. Sleep with your fantasies.


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> LOL...here I go again. In an earlier post when _we were discussing OMICRON_, you said something about the unvaccinated spending up to 200 days in the hospital as a rebuttal. I told you that Omicron has only been around for a month or so. Now, you say this about bowel obstruction. You are really funny! 🤣 Omicron may have only been around for a short period, but it is nothing more than a bad cold or mild flu. Aren't you listening? 😉
> 
> OK, goodnight, my friend. Sleep with your fantasies.


You are getting confused about who is who.  

If I remember correctly some were saying the original variant was just a bad flue as well.  Well that bad flue killed 833000 Americans.  Now you want to believe the same story again?


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## bholler (Jan 7, 2022)

In case you missed it the links I posted show multiple studies showing the effectiveness of the covid vaccine.  Why didn't you comment on them?


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## tlc1976 (Jan 7, 2022)

I agree with a bowel blockage being more serious. I’ve had many as I was born with problems. It’s just a matter of waiting outside for 12 hours or maybe over a day to be seen, finding out there isn’t a place for you if you do get in. Like a coworker of my mom’s, don’t remember what she said he had but it wasn’t Covid. People dying waiting on emergency treatment when they would have gotten right in. Just a sad situation all around. Really trying my best to not get sick or hurt because it’s pretty much every man for himself anymore.


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## fire_man (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Omicron may have only been around for a short period, but it is nothing more than a bad cold or mild flu. Aren't you listening? 😉


What will you say if later in time  "raw data" supports that there are  long term side effects due to Omicron that we don't even know about yet? Remember, this is still a "novel" virus that the human immune system is not used to fighting, at least without a vaccine.

Strep throat can have long term side effects, even though it might appear to be just a "mild" case. Wait a minute, I got that info from main-stream media so perhaps its all wrong!


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Soon, it will most likely surpass the unvaccinated.


Back that by fact or data.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 8, 2022)

fire_man said:


> What will you say if later in time  "raw data" supports that there are  long term side effects due to Omicron that we don't even know about yet? Remember, this is still a "novel" virus that the human immune system is not used to fighting, at least without a vaccine.
> 
> Strep throat can have long term side effects, even though it might appear to be just a "mild" case. Wait a minute, I got that info from main-stream media so perhaps its all wrong!


Geez, I don't know and neither do you, but I can tell you one thing, I am not living my life cowering in the corner afraid of the future, or even dying. You either live your life or hide. Sounds like you are hiding and afraid. Sorry, I am not. Will I die from all this, I doubt it, but if I do, at least I will go out living my life rather than being miserable.  BTW...it is not a "novel" virus. It is a corona virus. Corona viruses have been around for centuries. That's what the common cold is and the direction this one is heading from all indications. Will this one turn out different as far as long term effects, I don't know, and as I said neither do you, but I am not going to waste my time worrying. That is depressing; you are depressing.


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## fire_man (Jan 8, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Geez, I don't know and neither do you, but I can tell you one thing, I am not living my life cowering in the corner afraid of the future, or even dying. You either live your life or hide. Sounds like you are hiding and afraid. Sorry, I am not. Will I die from all this, I doubt it, but if I do, at least I will go out living my life rather than being miserable.  BTW...it is not a "novel" virus. It is a corona virus. Corona viruses have been around for centuries. That's what the common cold is and the direction this one is heading from all indications. Will this one turn out different as far as long term effects, I don't know, and as I said neither do you, but I am not going to waste my time worrying. That is depressing; you are depressing.


Guess I hit a nerve  . Do your homework, the original Covid-19 was considered a novel virus. You are obviously clueless in much of what you say.

When the country was in lockdown I was still going to work designing and building electronics to defend our country so you have no right to accuse me of living my life in fear.

I'm sorry to see you are a new member on this site, you are a hostile person.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 8, 2022)

fire_man said:


> Guess I hit a nerve. Do your homework, the original Covid-19 was considered a novel virus.
> 
> When the country was in lockdown I was still going to work designing and building electronics to defend our country so you have no right to accuse me of living my life in fear.
> 
> I'm sorry to see you are a new member on this site, you are a hostile person.


No, you didn't hit a nerve, although I bet you would have liked to.  It's still nothing more than a corona virus. "Novel" just means "new strain". There are new strains of cold (corona) viruses, too. Why do you think that you can catch many colds during your lifetime. Your body encounters a new or "novel" strain. You need to take things down a notch or two.

Please, don't try to defend yourself by your work.  I really don't give a rat's ass what you do for a living. Your over-reaction to my post is very defensive in nature.

I am not hostile in the least. I just call it like it is.  You want to believe I am hostile because I confront others on their BS, like yours. If you don't like my posts, report them as hostile to the admin, stop reading them, or block me. It's really that simple.


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## clancey (Jan 8, 2022)

Anybody that has a different opinion then the majority of this forum because they have been on it a long time and have a lot of posting time invested always asks a person of a different opinion to prove what they are saying as they use the main stream fake media to get their truth ---I'll give you some proof my brother died on Good Friday because the hospital (one of the so called great ones) used the wrong protocol and killed him---just praying that I am able to stay at home and if I am going to die then let me die at home before some of these wrong protocol people get at me. Yea this is another believe or not posting so believe what you want to believe and stop harassing people who have a different opinion then you...clancey


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## bholler (Jan 8, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> No, you didn't hit a nerve, although I bet you would have liked to.  It's still nothing more than a corona virus. "Novel" just means "new strain". There are new strains of cold (corona) viruses, too. Why do you think that you can catch many colds during your lifetime. Your body encounters a new or "novel" strain. You need to take things down a notch or two.
> 
> Please, don't try to defend yourself by your work.  I really don't give a rat's ass what you do for a living. Your over-reaction to my post is very defensive in nature.
> 
> I am not hostile in the least. I just call it like it is.  You want to believe I am hostile because I confront others on their BS, like yours. If you don't like my posts, report them as hostile to the admin, stop reading them, or block me. It's really that simple.


Why don't you back up some of your claims with some data and studies??   I provided studies you said didn't exist.  No comment from you...


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## bholler (Jan 8, 2022)

clancey said:


> Anybody that has a different opinion then the majority of this forum because they have been on it a long time and have a lot of posting time invested always asks a person of a different opinion to prove what they are saying as they use the main stream fake media to get their truth ---I'll give you some proof my brother died on Good Friday because the hospital (one of the so called great ones) used the wrong protocol and killed him---just praying that I am able to stay at home and if I am going to die then let me die at home before some of these wrong protocol people get at me. Yea this is another believe or not posting so believe what you want to believe and stop harassing people who have a different opinion then you...clancey


The problem is this is not a matter of opinion.  This is a matter of facts.  There are many denying the facts and saying they don't exist but when asked to back up their claims they never can.   I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions.  I do on the other hand have a problem when people make claims that I am wrong but can't back up what they say


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## fire_man (Jan 8, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> No, you didn't hit a nerve, although I bet you would have liked to. It's still nothing more than a corona virus. "Novel" just means "new strain". There are new strains of cold (corona) viruses, too. Why do you think that you can catch many colds during your lifetime. Your body encounters a new or "novel" strain. You need to take things down a notch or two.


The "nothing more than a corona virus" has killed more than 800 americans.

Guess I keep hitting that nerve


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## jatoxico (Jan 8, 2022)

clancey said:


> -I'll give you some proof my brother died on Good Friday because the hospital (one of the so called great ones) used the wrong protocol and killed him---


If there was, what is often called euphemistically, a therapeutic misadventure, then I'm sorry to hear it, it does happen, and someone should contact a lawyer.

But since we're saying it "like it is" in this thread and not worrying about a little thing like respect or decorum I'll say this. if I had a nickel for everyone who couldn't accept that the adverse outcome of an injury or disease despite the best of efforts just couldn't be helped,.. well you know.

The fact is, western medicine has saved countless lives using the information learned from the scientific principle, that is provable reproducible facts.

The corona virus is new in some respects and bears similarities to other described viruses, and we know this from yes, the science.  A fact that some hear say is true but who only want to accept and repeat the parts of the science that they find agreeable to their world view.

And while I'm at it, the idea that everyone who gets the vaccine and wears a mask is somehow a cowering chicken@#$%, is nonsense. I care for my family and friends/acquaintances , and if it helps, even a little bit, I'm in.


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## gzecc (Jan 8, 2022)

jatoxico said:


> If there was, what is often called euphemistically, a therapeutic misadventure, then I'm sorry to hear it, it does happen, and someone should contact a lawyer.
> 
> But since we're saying it "like it is" in this thread and not worrying about a little thing like respect or decorum I'll say this. if I had a nickel for everyone who couldn't accept that the adverse outcome of an injury or disease despite the best of efforts just couldn't be helped,.. well you know.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately according to your last statement (if you're only referring to wearing a mask)you will never be able to remove the mask.


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## jatoxico (Jan 8, 2022)

gzecc said:


> Unfortunately according to your last statement (if you're only referring to wearing a mask)you will never be able to remove the mask.


I doubt it but maybe. I know it's different for everyone, but I find I don't have to wear a mask much of the time, easily less than an hour a day on average.


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## bholler (Jan 8, 2022)

Ok guys everyone be nice or the thread is going to get closed.   I know we can disagree but still have a civil discussion if everyone tries.


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## festerw (Jan 8, 2022)

I'm on day 8 of symptoms, mostly just a nagging splitting headache at this point.

I'm just leaving this here.









						r/HermanCainAward
					

r/HermanCainAward: Nominees have made public declaration of their anti-mask, anti-vax, or Covid-hoax views, followed by admission to hospital for …




					www.reddit.com


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## fire_man (Jan 8, 2022)

festerw said:


> I'm on day 8 of symptoms, mostly just a nagging splitting headache at this point.
> 
> I'm just leaving this here.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you are on the mend and your job is being accomodating for sick time.


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## festerw (Jan 8, 2022)

fire_man said:


> Glad to hear you are on the mend and your job is being accomodating for sick time.



As I was posting this I got the 5 day retest come back as positive too. So 12/30 and 1/5 positive results, ordered another test for Monday.

Good thing I've still got 10 'free' sick days.


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## fire_man (Jan 9, 2022)

festerw said:


> As I was posting this I got the 5 day retest come back as positive too. So 12/30 and 1/5 positive results, ordered another test for Monday.
> 
> Good thing I've still got 10 'free' sick days.


Enjoy the benefits while they last. In my neck of the woods it seems like the well deserved benefits just keep getting chipped away.


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## NorMi (Jan 9, 2022)

I'm watching this one for the 7 day hospital bed trend, you can get the data there for most individual states as well. We still have capacity nationally but it looks to be about the lowest number of beds available to date, we have about 15k/19% ICU beds free nationally. Staff attrition seems to slightly decrease the total maximum beds I guess. Probably not a great time to injure yourself for the next few weeks if you had the choice. Some people might not know why the beds are being used at a higher rate, or they might think that these beds numbers are too mainstream, horses for courses. At least count your blessings if you live in Texas where they have 7% ICU beds available this last week. They'll be OK as long as they don't net more than 440 new ICU admits in the whole state this week. 👌
🤏


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## gzecc (Jan 9, 2022)

NorMi said:


> I'm watching this one for the 7 day hospital bed trend, you can get the data there for most individual states as well. We still have capacity nationally but it looks to be about the lowest number of beds available to date, we have about 15k/19% ICU beds free nationally. Staff attrition seems to slightly decrease the total maximum beds I guess. Probably not a great time to injure yourself for the next few weeks if you had the choice. Some people might not know why the beds are being used at a higher rate, or they might think that these beds numbers are too mainstream, horses for courses. At least count your blessings if you live in Texas where they have 7% ICU beds available this last week. They'll be OK as long as they don't net more than 440 new ICU admits in the whole state this week. 👌
> 🤏


Hospital /beds are built to be always 95% full. They don't build extra just in case. Its a business first.
During flu outbreaks of the past, hospitals are usually full. In NYC people have been kept in hallways waiting for beds. Nothing new.  Our system isn't built for a large surge of sick.


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## NorMi (Jan 9, 2022)

Whew these hospital admins must be really bad at their jobs, as they're usually nowhere near 95% full.  Unfortunately when the pandemic "ended after the election" the hospitals got more full several times inexplicably.  Now with a little light cold or flu, they are the most full in two years.  Bummer.  My aunt is the dean of medicine at a little ~1000 bed hospital, she never mentioned the 95% design to me, I'll ask her next time I see her.  (Don't hold your breath, I usually avoid her she's a bit nuts)  The data folks and epidemiologists at Johns Hopkins are gonna be really disappointed with this news too, maybe they can take some time off and go ice fishing!  (I love ice fishing) Do you have the 95% rule on paper, I'll send it to her so she knows how many people to fire...  
Me I just stay out of the hospital, especially with 8-16+ hour wait times in the local ER, which is totally normal as well I guess, I wouldn't actually know since I rarely show up there.  One time I had a kidney stone and they just took me in and did a little CT and gave me a room, nice folks, but there was no waiting in those days.   Now they pulled the nice nurse out of my wife's colocated urgent care to go work OT at the hospital, not sure why.  It's a heck of a confusing industry.  I'd ask my wife as she's a doc too, but I think she's checked out now all she does is roll her eyes and threaten me with the dog house! ...


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## fire_man (Jan 9, 2022)

NorMi said:


> One time I had a kidney stone and they just took me in and did a little CT and gave me a room, nice folks, but there was no waiting in those days.


I've been there, done that and would dread a long wait if I had a do-over. Same thing here, had a CT, then a room w/ nice people and pain killers.

A friend just had a heart attack and fortunatly he got right in and they took care of him fast.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 9, 2022)

I continue to be amazed by the mass formation psychosis within this country, but weak minds are open to just about anything.

Oh, btw...I can't quote anyone here study for study. All depends on what "study" you want to quote and where you get it from. The media has plenty of "studies" (as does our "reliable government") that just don't hold water. *Do the RAW DATA research yourself. *It's out there if you dig down for it, but that would take work, and to start, don't rely on Google if you really want the truth. Too easy just to take the "popular" stance. I'm kind of tired with wasting my time with those who are already "convinced" and want us all to be. That's part of mass formation psychosis.

Have a good evening everyone.


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## bholler (Jan 9, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> I continue to be amazed by the mass formation psychosis within this country, but weak minds are open to just about anything.
> 
> Oh, btw...I can't quote anyone here study for study. All depends on what "study" you want to quote and where you get it from. The media has plenty of "studies" (as does our "reliable government") that just don't hold water. *Do the RAW DATA research yourself. *It's out there if you dig down for it, but that would take work, and to start, don't rely on Google if you really want the truth. Too easy just to take the "popular" stance. I'm kind of tired with wasting my time with those who are already "convinced" and want us all to be. That's part of mass formation psychosis.
> 
> Have a good evening everyone.


So in other words you can't back up the claims you are making?


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 9, 2022)

bholler said:


> So in other words you can't back up the claims you are making?


No, I could continue, but I'm not at this point which I am sure you will try to "spin" as my defeat. LOL. I am very comfortable with my research and finished wasting my time with you as you really are not open to other possibilities. Like I said, do the raw research and stop relying on media and Google,

Out for now. I'll check in tomorrow night.


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## bholler (Jan 9, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> No, I could continue, but I'm not at this point which I am sure you will try to "spin" as my defeat. LOL. I am very comfortable with my research and finished wasting my time with you as you really are not open to other possibilities. Like I said, do the raw research and stop relying on media and Google,
> 
> Out for now. I'll check in tomorrow night.


Hmmm  you have proof but don't want to share it.  That makes perfect sense.


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## clancey (Jan 9, 2022)

it's a big topic here and there is a lot of information out there starting with  doing your own research..When a family member gets into a hospital and there are treatments out there for keeping people out of the serious range and having to be put on the vent and these treatments save people's lives--all over the world but big pharma and the corrupt political world are preventing you from saving your love ones lives---then talk about it and do your own research and you can start now--for I am sure you are online  experts here and know how to use the computer to look up different things and i could give you at least five professional websites to check out but I won't because I do not want the negative "bs" comments that you would make about these very brave and very educated people trying to save your lives and the lives of your love ones. Listen to your corrupt politicians and you can start with the x governor of NY who let thousands of old people die in nursing homes because of his "conflicts" "whatever they may be" as well as other politicians who just do not care about "common peoples lives"...Whether you believe this or not---This is biological warfare and we have been sold out...I cannot say anything more stronger than this and I am only saying it so that I can live my small unimportant life trying to give warning to the people who I have learned to like on this forum because of their simple lives having christian values and simple unpretentious goals in life...Wait until you have a love one in the hospital who is in bad shape and you cannot even see them as well as them "dying alone" as they fight people to not put the vent in them after they drug the person in order to do this...This happens and my brother died alone because my name was  not on the list..Yea my writing on this topic is over too and this is all I can do to try to warn people like you..So do you own research..old mrs clancey


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## fire_man (Jan 9, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> No, I could continue, but I'm not at this point which I am sure you will try to "spin" as my defeat. LOL. I am very comfortable with my research and finished wasting my time with you as you really are not open to other possibilities. Like I said, do the raw research and stop relying on media and Google,
> 
> Out for now. I'll check in tomorrow night.


He says he is finished wasting his time but keeps coming back for more. Perhaps he is not so sure of himself after all.


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## stoveliker (Jan 9, 2022)

As a PhD scientist, I can say unequivocally that people who say "do your own research" do not know what they are talking about.

You can find opinions, you can find written up results of (true scientific) research. And you can form an opinion based on that. That is NOT research, and the outcome of this process is rather unreliable. It is an opinion, not (scientifically accepted) fact.

The problem is that the human mind is very easily accepting of information (opinions or proper research reports) that are consistent with what one wants to be the truth. And the problem is that people that have zero experience in doing research, often have a hard time distinguishing opinion from research results and conclusions.

As a result of these two issues, a lot of opinions that are not based on reality are thought to be the truth.


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## fire_man (Jan 9, 2022)

Great points, Stoveliker. We dealt with a similar problem in Engineering when mangagement did not like our proposed solutions to expensive problems. They wanted to believe X but the data said the solution was Y. It often took twice the effort to convince them when high dollars were involved or when the schedule could slip.

I see the same sort of thing playing out in our politics and with the Pandemic, no matter how much evidence is presented, there is no convincing someone with a pre-conceived notion.


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## enordy (Jan 9, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> I continue to be amazed by the mass formation psychosis within this country, but weak minds are open to just about anything.
> 
> Oh, btw...I can't quote anyone here study for study. All depends on what "study" you want to quote and where you get it from. The media has plenty of "studies" (as does our "reliable government") that just don't hold water. *Do the RAW DATA research yourself. *It's out there if you dig down for it, but that would take work, and to start, don't rely on Google if you really want the truth. Too easy just to take the "popular" stance. I'm kind of tired with wasting my time with those who are already "convinced" and want us all to be. That's part of mass formation psychosis.
> 
> Have a good evening everyone.


So listen - I'm educated, probably less than some on this site .  My BS is in biology,  I keep abreast of information and I like to think that I practice "media literacy".  I digest everything presented and then throw out what seems like a bunch of horse****.  I believe that a person has to bring a cynical eye to many things on the internet, and so I appreciate your emphasis on raw data.

The great (or terrible) thing about data is that it can be manipulated to serve any person's interest. If they want to cry Chicken Little, they can make the numbers work. If they want to blow off Covid, they can do that, too. This is why I also appreciate your distrust of many mainstream websites.

I'm not lazy and if I wanted to spend a goodly amount of time digging for raw data, I'm sure I could find it. I am honestly curious about the raw data sources you were able to find, and I wouldn't mind you pointing me (us) in the right direction.  Maybe sharing your source(s) with the group will allow for a better understanding of your perspective. 

In my opinion, sharing unbiased information (raw data) with folks helps them make more informed decisions about how to act in the world they live in today.  If you can help us look at this objectively from a different perspective, I think the thread and its participants would benefit greatly from your sharing.

Eric


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## stoveliker (Jan 9, 2022)

I have to say that raw data are nearly impossible to interpret and draw reliable conclusions from if one does not know how the data were obtained, what the boundary conditions are, and if one does not have a good grasp of statistics and the formal logic one needs to draw scientifically reliable conclusions. (That, indeed, are often accompanied by a lot of caveats and limits to validity courtesy of the boundary conditions noted earlier.)


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## MR. GLO (Jan 9, 2022)

I can't believe this thread  is still open...so I'm jumping in before its closed...


In my area pre covid ...some hospitals er was 4 to 5 hour wait...if you did get in early for a bed it was still a long wait...  

We do have a nursing shortage and hospital staffing  pay issues...

Some people don't want to go to urgent care or stand in line outside....or don't want to pay so they go to er....some delayed treatment....and I'm confident covid and flu has caused an increase especially in open beds...but hospitals and healthcare plans  are cheap....I have 3 in my family...two nurses and  administrator...they all work at different locations.  

So far I  read one state is forcing nursing homes to take covid patients.

This run on test strip is the latest con. 
I don't want my tax dollars being spent on test strips....I'd rather see masks or help poor, homeless, veterans or addicts.  Some people are using them and are too confident.

Can't wait to see what the percentage of test strip fail just like some n95 masks.  Yes all batches of masks have a failure rate. You can see the studies the government does on large bulk orders.  But our govt can't get masks and the stores cant stock the n95. 

I wear a mask and got two shots but I'm not getting 3 or 4 jabs in a year....
I'm waiting.  Too many people are getting covid near me and they are vaccinated.   It's clear the news and govt are playing games. 

The covid issue is political but that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear a n95 mask and still live a life. 

Schools is OPEN buts school sports have stopped again in my area but nba nfl can still have fans?  Odd. Congress flying around and eating dinner with no mask....but others get dragged out of plane and arrested or cant fly or eat dinner?  All Odd

I see both sides...

Last week I drove by a testing site in concord mass and the line had two cars....but NYC has a mile long line of people freezing outside....whose fault is that?

I hope the op is feeling better.  










...


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## jatoxico (Jan 9, 2022)

I have to say I agree w/ the skepticism about all this do your own research stuff. As pointed out cognitive bias, sometimes called confirmation bias is a tough thing to overcome and something everyone is susceptible to. So just a couple points as I see it.

Masks were not invented to combat covid, neither were vaccines or hand washing or any of the other measures that are recommended to help limit transmission.  For better or worse these are the tools we currently have at our disposal. The recommendations are the same for any similarly transmitted virus and have been developed over years of professional research and application. The recommendations have been made because up until now, there is a fairly significant risk associated w/ this virus, esp to some in the pop.

So IMO you can't first tell me about the sequencing of the virus, its classification or the omicron variant causing less severe symptoms, or any of the other things we know and that are being reported, then ignore the rest of what the science is saying, and that the experts recommend because you did your own research and found something that fits a preconceived notion.


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## NorMi (Jan 10, 2022)

I do have to apologize as I actually don't care about anyone' beliefs on this really (you do you), which is part of why we moved in 2020 and will continue to move to further remote locations over time.  I just have a really twisted sardonic bent so I tend to poke people with sticks too much sometimes for no good reason.  Mostly I just like data, it's sort of a leisurely past time to keep me occupied as the world burns. Damn there I go again...

Anyway while I like to watch the hospitals at this phase of each rolling train wreck, I will be watching another set of stats in a month or two, right now this is not exciting in the US as we're in a nice safe lull, but I want to see what it ends up looking like this time.  The Economist is a pretty right wing rag these days, but I *love* that they keep this data set updated, horrifically fascinating stuff.  Bookmark this one too if you like data, it's really well done: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker


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## stoveliker (Jan 10, 2022)

so 20% more people dying than normal is a nice lull? (That is, disregarding the last two datapoints.)


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## NorMi (Jan 10, 2022)

Well, it's as nice a lull as you're gonna get in this disinformation environment I think...  When eating a crap sandwich, sometimes when you get a nibble around the edges that is _mostly_ crust and bread you can be _relatively_ thankful... Maybe... 😬


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## semipro (Jan 10, 2022)

I've come to the realization recently that many COVID cases are going unreported due to the availability of self test kits and symptoms mild enough that many self-treat at home.  I'm guessing that this is skewing the data towards the most severe cases that require clinical treatment.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 10, 2022)

bholler said:


> Hmmm  you have proof but don't want to share it.  That makes perfect sense.


Makes no sense sharing it. You have your mind made up. That is what mass formation psychosis is all about.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 10, 2022)

Even the head of the CDC can't tell us how many hospitalizations/deaths are attributable to people admitted for Covid and how many were admitted for something else but had Covid. (Did you see the weekend interviews with her? She looked like an idiot.) Really calls into question the total deaths in the US FROM Covid. Then you have Judge Sotomayer making it up as she goes along. What a moron she is! Have you read about the 5.4 TRILLION allotted to Covid in this country with more than 2/3's unaccountable for, misused, or "missing"? The numbers are being manipulated. This is all going to come down in the next few weeks/months. The CDC and the Fed Gov't. have been lying to us, and it is about to all come out. But, like other things, no one will be held accountable. And, most of you here, will continue in your mass formation psychosis, without even knowing what that is. I just keep laughing at the lemmings.

Oh, and I read all the postings since last night, but ignored most since they are drivel.

Keep trying to sink me, belittle me, or refute me; we'll revisit this thread in 6-12 months, and I will still be laughing.

Talk with you all tomorrow, unless I am up late tonight.

Remember: Do your OWN research and stop relying on the mainstream media and Google....if any of you know how to do independent research, which seems unlikely from what I have been reading. 😆😆😆

Have a good evening, everyone. Until we talk again...


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Makes no sense sharing it. You have your mind made up. That is what mass formation psychosis is all about.


Show us the data and studies.


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## Prof (Jan 10, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Makes no sense sharing it. You have your mind made up. That is what mass formation psychosis is all about.


I happen to be a shrink (a real one with a license and everything), and mass formation psychosis is not something that psychological science recognizes. It seems like it is someone's idea that as of yet has no basis in social science.


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## Dan Freeman (Jan 10, 2022)

bholler said:


> Show us the data and studies.


You are a hoot, bholler. I tried in the beginning, but you came right back with the party line. I am not going to waste my time with one of the lemmmings


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> Makes no sense sharing it. You have your mind made up. That is what mass formation psychosis is all about.


That's like the pot calling the kettle black.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 10, 2022)

I think there is a lack of understanding probability and statistics. If I were as likely to win the lottery as getting serious complications from Covid I would be buying lottery tickets in bulk.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2022)

Dan Freeman said:


> You are a hoot, bholler. I tried in the beginning, but you came right back with the party line. I am not going to waste my time with one of the lemmmings


I just went back through your posts.  And no you haven't provided anything to back up your claims.  You have been asked many times by several people but have yet to offer anything other than saying there are no studies proving the effectiveness of the vaccine.  I provided links showing multiple studies.


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## NorMi (Jan 10, 2022)

Man I tried to do my own research, couldn't get a single volunteer.  I ran out of basement space in about a week, people down there started to get really grumpy after being clubbed and put in there.  Also, I couldn't find any partners to do the double blind with me, plus the equipment cost an arm and leg (luckily not my own, had plenty of spares, ya know...)  In the end I just sold the gear on ebay and went back to reading real science studies as that was simply TOO stressful, imo.


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## stoveliker (Jan 10, 2022)

People claiming to have facts but unwilling to share them are not concerned with the truth coming out,. contrary to claims.
Or they are delusional.


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## fire_man (Jan 10, 2022)

stoveliker said:


> People claiming to have facts but unwilling to share them are not concerned with the truth coming out,. contrary to claims.
> Or they are delusional.


I was trying to word something similar but you said it better than I could.

The only thing I can add:

A troll is Internet slang for *a person who intentionally tries to instigate conflict, hostility*, or arguments in an online social community. Platforms targeted by trolls can include the comment sections of YouTube, forums, or chat rooms.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 10, 2022)

883 new cases in our county (over three days) Hospitalizations also rose sharply, from 21 to 31 in just three days.


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## bholler (Jan 10, 2022)

With that this thread is done.


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