# Heating Oil prices put Pellets on back burner.



## relxn88 (Jul 31, 2015)

Oil is $2.07 and dropping. The calculating chart http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
shows the break even price for Pellets at $220 a ton.  Around here, I figure I'll be paying $299 a ton for pellets. I usually buy around 4 tons, but I've decided to just by 1 ton of middle of winter, hot burning pellets, just to help out.  The shoulder seasons are going to be heated by oil.  The old bugaboo about oil prices going up in the winter doesn't matter. I'll just buy the pellets when or if  the oil price goes above $2.75 (my break even point).  If the prices of pellets DID rise this winter, it makes burning oil all that more reasonable.
I've enjoyed heating my home with pellets, but for me, pellet burning has pretty much priced it's way out of my home.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 31, 2015)

Assuming you could start either heat source easily, without a lot of preparation, which would be better:  choosing the cheaper fuel at current prices or what you paid for it?


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## relxn88 (Jul 31, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> Assuming you could start either heat source easily, without a lot of preparation, which would be better:  choosing the cheaper fuel at current prices or what you paid for it?



 If I understand your question(if oil heat or pellet heat were the same maintenance) , I would follow my wallet. I will admit to keeping my house warmer (71 degrees) with pellets, compared to oil(I keep at 70 degrees). Minimal difference.  Also, In my case, the pellet stove was pretty much automatic( self starting + I installed a wall thermostat in the kitchen next to the oil heat thermostat), so I just loaded  it once a day and cleaned it every couple a weeks. For me, it just boils down to price.  The 1 ton I'll buy, for the middle of this winter) will be Oakie Douglas Fir and more like $350 a ton, which means my break even for oil is $3.25.


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## billb3 (Jul 31, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> Assuming you could start either heat source easily, without a lot of preparation, which would be better:  choosing the cheaper fuel at current prices or what you paid for it?



If you are already prepared and stocked for Winter then current anything except the weather or broken hardware  is irrelevant.

The same question can be posed of someone who has 11 cords of prime hardwood  ready to burn in their back yard. Let's say it cost them nothing as they harvested it themselves. Do they heat with that firewood to save money ? If they can sell it to someone for $250-$300 / cord and buy oil to heat their home at under $2/gal ? For a hefty profit, not knowing for certain what it's replacement costs could be in the future ?


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## Brettsdaddy2010 (Jul 31, 2015)

Oil is still about $2.62 per gallon where I live_. _I figured it out and if i bought the minimum 150 gallons of oil at that price it would be $390. That much oil lasts me roughly a month...maybe a month and a half. A ton of pellets will cost me $255 which will last me roughly the same amount of time, that's still a difference of $135 in favor of wood pellets for me. Now if the price of oil drops to $2.07 here like it is where you live...I'll be firing up my oil furnace again . It's hard to tell what will happen in mid-winter...who knows, the price of oil could skyrocket again and if you didn't buy any pellets because you relied on oil staying about $2.07 per gallon or so you'd be screwed. I'm playing it safe and getting at least 2 tons of pellets...if oil continues to plummet all the better but if it starats rising dramatically again I'll be prepared...hopefully .


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## jfunk138 (Jul 31, 2015)

I do have to wonder if current pricing is going to lead pellet prices down.  Home Depot already has pellets stacked out front (typically HD doesn't get them until September) I have to wonder if they came from a warehouse that was full due to lack of pre-buy.  I'm certainly not buying at current prices.  It will be an interesting winter, no doubt.

Edit to add... Current local price of heating oil is $1.94


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## Brettsdaddy2010 (Jul 31, 2015)

Wow to the price of heating oil I wish it were like that up here in Vermont where I live...I'd definitely give some serious thought to purchasing at least 150 gallons.


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## jfunk138 (Jul 31, 2015)

There are some places in MA with $1.79 heating oil.  However, I am certain that if the price holds through the start of heating season we will see a huge drop in pellet prices.

Getting a bit OT... but I've told some friends considering solar:  "What if the price of electricity drops substantially"?  "That will nevier happen", they say.  I then remind them that heating oil is half the price it was last year at this time.  Unlike pellets, once you buy those panels your price is locked in forever.  If Elon Musk develops a panel that is 2 or 3 times more efficient or develops some new way to generate nuclear power, electricity prices will start to drop like a rock.


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## Pete Zahria (Jul 31, 2015)

jfunk138 said:


> There are some places in MA with $1.79 heating oil.
> However, I am certain that if the price holds through the start of heating season
> we will see a huge drop in pellet prices.



Huge?
Absolutely not.

Dan


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## Pellet-King (Jul 31, 2015)

Oil here today in Ct/mass is $1.99 , lowest since easter weekend, pellet's are $269 for FSU at my HD in Enfield ct,I'm all in for oil shoulder burning then ton or 2 of pellets for middle of winter.


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## planner steve (Jul 31, 2015)

relxn88 said:


> Oil is $2.07 and dropping. The calculating chart http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
> shows the break even price for Pellets at $2.25.  Around here, I figure I'll be paying $299 a ton for pellets. I usually buy around 4 tons, but I've decided to just by 1 ton of middle of winter, hot burning pellets, just to help out.  The shoulder seasons are going to be heated by oil.  The old bugaboo about oil prices going up in the winter doesn't matter. I'll just buy the pellets when or if  the oil price goes above $2.75 (my break even point).  If the prices of pellets DID rise this winter, it makes burning oil all that more reasonable.
> I've enjoyed heating my home with pellets, but for me, pellet burning has pretty much priced it's way out of my home.


Thanks for sharing the link to Travis fuel cost calculator.  It is one of the better I've seen on the web.  One thing of note is they use 115,620 btu/ gal of #2 fuel oil.  Most sources put the value at 138,000 to 140,000 btu/gal.  That would tend to overstate the $/MMBTU for oil.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jul 31, 2015)

i wouldn't count on an October surprise not happening.  It would only take Iran to decide not to let anybody out of the gulf to bump prices up drastically.  Couple that with a hard winter with increased demand and you could easily screw yourself.  Make sure there is a good backup plan.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 31, 2015)

My plan is to burn as much wood in the insert since I have about 40 cords stacked.  They all came from log loads, which is like $100/cord.
Still have to burn oil or pellets though.


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## EatenByLimestone (Jul 31, 2015)

It sounds like you have quite a backup plan!  40 cords must take the square footage up of my house!  Any pics of those massive stacks?


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## billb3 (Jul 31, 2015)

$269 for FSU at HD here too. They had 15 ton today with one skid open to sell single bags out of. They had some all Summer too, just kinda hidden behind the mulch.

I wouldn't count on the price of pellets dropping. At least not very much. Doubt oil's going too much lower either. Doubt it's going up much more than it has in the last 6 months either.
I'm not seeing much firewood for sale yet like usual either. What I am seeing new is  a few guys trying to sell truckloads/or 1/3 cord of pine for $70-$90. No cheap buy it now green hardwood ads.  Not looking good.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 1, 2015)

EatenByLimestone said:


> It sounds like you have quite a backup plan!  40 cords must take the square footage up of my house!  Any pics of those massive stacks?


Here are the pics.  I come up with 43.66 cords.


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## moey (Aug 1, 2015)

I doubt pellets will go down much in price maybe HD and the other BBS may put them on sale for 10% off like they typically do. You may see a couple big mills shut down or stop producing pellets for domestic use though.


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## EatenByLimestone (Aug 1, 2015)

Wow.  That's a lot of wood!   And to think you were looking to get rid of that splitter a couple years ago!


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## velvetfoot (Aug 1, 2015)

EatenByLimestone said:


> Wow.  That's a lot of wood!   And to think you were looking to get rid of that splitter a couple years ago!


I don't remember that.  I know I had a tank leak that needed rewelding and the cylinder's big retaining nut was loose and needed to be retightened.  However, the small electric splitter is for sale.


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## slls (Aug 1, 2015)

Oil here $189.9, pellets high.


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## Brian26 (Aug 1, 2015)

Hearing reports of $1.75-1.79 a gallon here in the New Haven, CT area. New Haven is one of the biggest entry ports for heating oil for New England. I live about 4 miles away from the terminal so local dealers sell heating oil around here cheap. My supplier is literally across from the terminal. 

Not a pellet burner but I am going to substantially cut back on the wood stove this winter as I am going to fill my 275 gallon tank within the next week or so. 

Local Home Depots have pellets for $269 a ton. Sorry $1.75 heating oil is way cheaper than that $5+ bag of pellets right now....


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## velvetfoot (Aug 1, 2015)

Wow.  I'm near Albany.  Paying way too much retail.


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## JoeP (Aug 2, 2015)

For the difference I'll burn pellets, I like the heat and glow of the fire. If 1 refinery goes down or a bad hurricane season, or if something in the middle east bam high oil price. Now if we are talking a lock in oil price under $1.95 I'll have to think on it LOL.


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## Brian26 (Aug 2, 2015)

JoeP said:


> For the difference I'll burn pellets, I like the heat and glow of the fire. If 1 refinery goes down or a bad hurricane season, or if something in the middle east bam high oil price. Now if we are talking a lock in oil price under $1.95 I'll have to think on it LOL.




Same here. I am still going to burn. But wow is oil cheap right now.. 

Is $1.50 a gallon a possibility?


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## UpStateNY (Aug 3, 2015)

Fuel Oil price today is $1.95 a gallon. Quality wood pellets are over $280 and closer to $300 with delivery.     I can get 200 gallon oil fill up for under $400.

*At those prices I got to be stupid to burn wood pellets this year.   *


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 3, 2015)

UpStateNY said:


> *At those prices I got to be stupid to burn wood pellets this year.   *


Not if you enjoy it......

You can get a burger at McDonald's for a buck.
Are you stupid to pay 5X that at Five Guys?
It just depends on what you enjoy and are willing to pay for that enjoyment..  

Dan


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## velvetfoot (Aug 3, 2015)

Wow.  You'd think Albany would be cheaper.  I'll have to look around.


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## Pellet-King (Aug 3, 2015)

Crude dropped again today  
Crude Oil is down -$1.78 $45.34 barrel


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## bags (Aug 3, 2015)

Go with what is the cheapest. That is just common sense. However I would hold onto your pellet stove and a stash of pellets because the oil market is always very unstable. I went the pellet route to save some money and reduce time consuming wood processing. So far I'm winning and happy BUT if pellet prices continue to climb and get ridiculous I guarantee you I'll be busting wood again. In fact, I still do occasionally. Not because I have to be a wood slave to stay warm. Forced labor is not much fun IMO. Yes, ultimately I can heat a lot cheaper with wood but presently it is not feasible time wise. Time is money too.

You can still enjoy your fire using oil when you want. just throw a bag of pellets in. This will save some oil for a minute too. I really don't give a rats butt about how who stays warm. That's everyone's personal choice but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me. If I had an oil burning furnace and it was cheaper than pellets you can bet I'd be heating with oil this year. Question is: How long will that last. Don't put your eggs all in one basket.


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## English BoB (Aug 3, 2015)

Oil still $2.68 here in Albany area ???????


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## velvetfoot (Aug 3, 2015)

I haven't called around, but this place was cheapest for me in the past:
http://kokosaoil.com/
And yes, 2.68.


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## Tonyray (Aug 3, 2015)

bags said:


> Go with what is the cheapest. That is just common sense. However I would hold onto your pellet stove and a stash of pellets because the oil market is always very unstable. I went the pellet route to save some money and reduce time consuming wood processing. So far I'm winning and happy BUT if pellet prices continue to climb and get ridiculous I guarantee you I'll be busting wood again. In fact, I still do occasionally. Not because I have to be a wood slave to stay warm. Forced labor is not much fun IMO. Yes, ultimately I can heat a lot cheaper with wood but presently it is not feasible time wise. Time is money too.
> 
> You can still enjoy your fire using oil when you want. just throw a bag of pellets in. This will save some oil for a minute too. I really don't give a rats butt about how who stays warm. That's everyone's personal choice but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me. If I had an oil burning furnace and it was cheaper than pellets you can bet I'd be heating with oil this year. Question is: How long will that last. Don't put your eggs all in one basket.


_ but paying more to do so makes absolutely zero sense to me._
2 guys from the same neighborhood have a 1 hour commute to the city for work..[2 hr round trip].
guy 1 buys a new 20,000.00 Honda Accord For his commute.
guy 2 buys a 75.000 Lincoln SUV...for his commute...
Is guy 2 a fool?  maybe, but if he can afford the more luxurious car, why should he go for the cheaper car just because it costs less.?  Price isn't always the most important reason.
Oil may be cheaper now but like many here, I don't mind spending a bit more [maybe]  for pellet heat..
I like the concept of burning pellets all winter in our house and the constant heat as opposed to our hot water baseboard getting hot, then cooling down, then getting hot, cool down, rinse/lather/repeat...... my 2cents.
on a different note, now that HD is selling the're Ashy pellets for 269.00 , would love to see people buy from local dealers and get better pellets for a few bucks more now that Home Depot has hit  the 270.00 ton range.


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## billb3 (Aug 3, 2015)

English BoB said:


> Oil still $2.68 here in Albany area ???????



looks like any where from $2.55 to $3.05
http://www.midatlanticoil.com/dealers/new-york/albany-rennsselaer/default

dropping pennies here now instead of nickels  

A warm Winter will really be icing on the strained pocketbook relief.


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## bags (Aug 3, 2015)

Tony,
I agree, but some (most) are strictly into pellet stoves for a cheaper heating option. I am not one of them because I pay for pellets as a trade off instead of processing wood. It's worth it and I like my pellet stoves a bunch thus far. Well, I am though at the same time because I like inexpensive comfy warmth but the ambiance and pellet toting etc; does have it's limits when there are less expensive options. How much is that sight of a fire and a little added warmth really worth. Not to mention the small hassles we endure for it. 

When pellets become $400 per ton how many do you think will look into other ways to heat? Or even $325 plus. Pretty many I'd say. I could spend less and stay very warm but choose to do pellets with some money layout for ease, time and labor savings, and simplicity and it works for me presently. Now IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a trade off point for everyone. I ran a lot of numbers to see what my savings might be or what the cost to heat with pellets would be before I bought one. I am confident most others do also. The fire and added warmth are a bonus but then again there are other sacrifices we make for that. If I could heat my home for a lot less looking at the fire becomes less appealing.

I think some above are at this point and it makes sense to switch even if it is short lived. I really like my pellet stove and the constant fire but when it turns into a bigger money hassle then just like the expensive SUV commute it will begin to stop making sense. The processing of firewood will become less work for the trade off. Are wealthy people running out and buying pellets stoves for fun and ambiance? Doubt it. They are happy to pay their high energy bills because it is a drop in the bucket and not worry about scoring good deals on pellets and the joys of cleaning stoves and toting 40 pounders. They let their money do the work. 

Bottom Line: My pellet stoves and wood burning units are here to stay. Both types and all of them. They cost me nothing sitting in idle but can become, in a sense, priceless at times when needed or the bank account steers me to them. Last year I went numerous rounds with the wood burners here. I will always have the capability to heat with wood but for now pellets are the way to go for me. Much easier all the way around but that small luxury costs money and there are trade offs like cleaning which is minimal comparatively speaking doing wood. But you have other messes with wood too. I like pellet stoves and burning 40 pounders in many ways but IF all I had to do was process wood for the season and time was aplenty I'd likely do that and save the cash layout for 7 tons. 

Another thing I learned last heating season was that my P68 can do the entire house or areas it needs to do well without any issues but for long super cold snaps I will fire up the WoodMaster and give the pellet stoves a break and save some tonnage. I'm talking about consistent temps with highs in the 20's and lows in the teens or single digits which were numerous last winter. This depends if I have the seasoned wood stocked and I do. So spending more doesn't make sense at times. But at times it does just like laying out Harman cash vs. less costly units that also heat but require more TLC and cleaning. Not to mention dependability. 

All that said, and everything considered switching from wood to pellets made perfect sense for me although I do spend more for the heat vs. wood. I will also repeat that when it is all about cost saving then spending more makes zero sense. IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a point where heating that way will make zero sense. We are not there yet but many are taking note.


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## moey (Aug 4, 2015)

A lot of folks have poorly installed central heating systems so they are willing to pay extra to heat with pellets as its more comfortable. Ive spent years fine tuning my my central heating system from moving vents modifying airflow to make it the most comfortable and silent as possible. It blows the pants off my pellet stove now in terms of comfort and cost. Most folks are not willing to do that though and most heating/cooling contractors suck.


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## bags (Aug 4, 2015)

> moey said:
> 
> 
> > and most heating/cooling contractors suck.


Yes they do. Most want the quick and dirty in and out fast cash deals and workmanship is a joke. Not every single one but many are flat out hacks. Or the novice jokers they send out for service calls are.

Moey,
Doing what you've done is very time consuming. I still use my central HVAC system while my pellet stove runs just in fan only mode to distribute air better and more evenly throughout the house. I also use ceiling and box fans. I was surprise with what I was able to do with one pellet stove. I mainly bought it for the shoulder seasons (beginning & end of season) to save some firewood. much to my surprise it was the ONLY heat source I used all winter except for one week with the WoodMaster just to use it and exercise it.

I'm sold on pellet stoves just a bit hacked about pellet price increases this year suddenly.


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## Tonyray (Aug 4, 2015)

bags said:


> Tony,
> I agree, but some (most) are strictly into pellet stoves for a cheaper heating option. I am not one of them because I pay for pellets as a trade off instead of processing wood. It's worth it and I like my pellet stoves a bunch thus far. Well, I am though at the same time because I like inexpensive comfy warmth but the ambiance and pellet toting etc; does have it's limits when there are less expensive options. How much is that sight of a fire and a little added warmth really worth. Not to mention the small hassles we endure for it.
> 
> When pellets become $400 per ton how many do you think will look into other ways to heat? Or even $325 plus. Pretty many I'd say. I could spend less and stay very warm but choose to do pellets with some money layout for ease, time and labor savings, and simplicity and it works for me presently. Now IF pellet costs keep climbing there is a trade off point for everyone. I ran a lot of numbers to see what my savings might be or what the cost to heat with pellets would be before I bought one. I am confident most others do also. The fire and added warmth are a bonus but then again there are other sacrifices we make for that. If I could heat my home for a lot less looking at the fire becomes less appealing.
> ...


Interesting thoughts....
I don't know at what price point I would stop burning pellets full time....
may end up alternating pellets and oil maybe...
have to see where this goes in terms of low oil and higher pellet prices.    Oil my jump back up to astonomical prices within a year or 2...
but good reading anyways....


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## CleanFire (Aug 4, 2015)

bags said:


> How much is that sight of a fire and a little added warmth really worth.



To see my wife smile after coming home from a day's work to a warm house w/ the pellet stove running, or to me after being outside shoveling for what seemed like the millionth time this winter, it was worth it at $340/ton.

Heck, we may just turn up the furnace some, dump some sand in the living room, fill up the tub, and pretend we're in the Caribbean this winter.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 4, 2015)

Warm is warm. Not a burger. Use what is the most economical and keeps ya warm This isn't religion, it is heating your house. I don't have access to gas or oil for heat so it is non-issue here, damn it! I would be heating this barn with oil or gas if it was cheaper and go back to the solid fuel when warranted.


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## UpStateNY (Aug 5, 2015)

$1.946 for 2# fuel oil in Columbia to Orange counties. I got my fill up for $2.099.  Should have waited.  
http://www.economy-oil.com


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## velvetfoot (Aug 5, 2015)

Nice link.  I'm close to Columbia County.  It should be cheaper where I am.  I'll look around.


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 5, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Warm is warm. Not a burger. Use what is the most economical and keeps ya warm This isn't religion, it is heating your house. I don't have access to gas or oil for heat so it is non-issue here, damn it! I would be heating this barn with oil or gas if it was cheaper and go back to the solid fuel when warranted.



You make it sound like it's mandatory to use whatever is cheapest.
If that works for you, that's perfectly fine. It's what works for you.

I only have X amount of time left on this planet.
I'm doing what I enjoy.
Like the Five Guys burgers...... instead of McDonalds..
And pellets in my garage just to keep my truck and bike happy. 

Dan


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## CleanFire (Aug 5, 2015)

Oil retail range here is $2.49 - $2.55 (most) to $2.20 for bulk discount delivery in this area ( Cheshire county, NH )


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## bags (Aug 5, 2015)

Five Guys burgers are great and I go there often. As I've stated I am going to continue with pellet heat because it still makes sense and it is a great way for some very good relatively inexpensive home heat that can be very nice and enjoyable. All cleaning hassles and 40 pounder toting aside. That is just part of the deal. 

Now when that Five Guy burger starts to cost too much for what you get I'd have to look into other chow options. Same holds true for pellets here. Last fall I bought two pellet stoves and all the goods needed for hook up so I do take my pellet heating serious and like it. I invested somewhere in the tune of $7 grand all said and done for one new P68 and a used PC45 with all the pipe, thimbles, UPC's, etc;. Just the hardware and not including any pellet costs. That is doing the installs myself. I am still quite happy I made the move. Believe me I am.

The point I am getting at is very much along the lines of what Bro Bart stated. All prejudices, favoritism, and love aside the simple bottom line is the fact it is heating ones home economically. There is no one here that loves their pellet stoves and heat from them that damn much when pellet prices become ridiculous. That's about the same time a Five Guys burger shrinks in size and starts to cost closer to $20 with soda and fries. When throwing out that type of cash for chow why wouldn't people consider crab legs or a filet nicely done. Just an analogy in a sense.

I'll put it to you this way. You'd have to insanely love that burger and hate crab legs or a tender filet etc; to chose one over the other at that point. Home heating fuels are like airfare prices. They both get you from point A to point B. Everyone shops for the best deal there. Who is going to pay $40 bucks less to fly on a rickety commuter when First class Delta tics are in the same ball park? Not me.

I get what you all are saying that if you like and enjoy something it is worth the extra effort and costs. Better yet lets change the rickety commuter flight to ridding a bus to save $40 vs. a first class non stop flight.There is a point where the bus ride becomes ridiculous self inflicted punishment.

Let's be honest. Everyone here purchased a pellet stove* to save money heating their homes mainly.* Plus the simplicity of the bags vs. processing wood or crying every time they cut a check for propane, oil, natural gas, electric, etc; What happens when the savings ends up costing you a good percentage more plus all the hassles vs. flipping a stat switch?

Pellet costs are not there yet but close in this debate of home heating oil. I have zero confidence oil will remain this low very long and IMO it would be silly for someone to invest in a new oil fired system to capitalize on this temporarily low price of oil. That is a losing proposition. But for the folks that already have those oil fired systems sitting in their basements it makes a lot of sense to save money vs. paying more for pellets.

Just sayin'.... And for the diehards I have a $20,000 car I'd be more than happy to sell to you for $27,500 because you love the color of it so much.   It's a set of wheels that gets you from point A to B but you are so thrilled with the color the extra $7,500 one pays over its worth doesn't matter because you love it that much. That doesn't make sense does it? I'm not trying to be a dick here only a realist pointing out what logically makes sense as others waffling between the cost of pellet heat vs. the costs of cheap oil for now.

Another clarification is about sticking it to big business oil co.'s. What's the difference between them and pellet manufacturers and suppliers practicing the same gouging principles. Either way the poor sap trying to stay warm pays.......


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 5, 2015)

bags said:


> Five Guys burgers are great and I go there often.


Me too. And I Iive 2000' from a BK, and McD's.... 7 miles to 5G's.....
Do I go to McD's or BK... yes... occasionally.

So the answer "I" am trying to put across, is that you can do both...
If that is what you want to do.... If the burger goes to 10 bucks, I would go less.
For sure..
Just like some people buy 3 tons of Supremes for $249,
and 2 or 3  Douglas Fir for $419...
Others don't bat an eye on all Douglas Fir.



> .... And for the diehards I have a $20,000 car I'd be more than happy to sell to you for $27,500 because you love the color of it so much.   It's a set of wheels that gets you from point A to B but you are so thrilled with the color the extra $7,500 one pays over its worth doesn't matter because you love it that much. That doesn't make sense does it? .......



I have a mint Corvette. It stays in the garage all winter (heated with pellets). Put maybe 1-1500 miles per year.
My wife's 2000 Chrysler gets us to the same places as the Corvette... And.. in the winter..
Does that make any sense? Of course it doesn't.... but I love that car...
Been a car guy all my life... never got the one I wanted until I had grandkids..

To me, life is more than just strict economics.
Especially when you get older! 


Dan


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## bags (Aug 5, 2015)

> Pete Zahria said:
> 
> 
> > To me, life is more than just strict economics.
> > Especially when you get older!


Yes, Sir! I agree completely. I am a big car, truck, bike guy myself and have a garage puppy used on nice days or special occasions, etc; Also three bikes in the stables and two big 4 X 4 diesel trucks but tool around mostly in an '01 Honda Civic because it is cheap and makes sense. LOL! I like them all. Especially the easy to drive and park Civic getting 38 - 41 MPGs all day everyday in any driving conditions. I bought it as a cheap fuel alternative too. $35 fill up lasting two weeks beats the hell out of $120 - $130 diesel fill ups every week. 

But I'll be damned if I sell any of them to fund my pellet habit. I'm off a few days now so I might take my daughter to get a real burger at the Guys. Ya talked me into it! In the Honda, of course.....


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## CleanFire (Aug 5, 2015)

Net change here in oil price since last analysis posted: .05 cents cheaper.  Net change in pellets / ton: $20.00 less due to bulk buy.  Space heating w/ pellets = 5 degrees warmer in main living area.  Pellets still win & viable here as a primary source of heat.  OAK is installed, working on register louvers for duct work now.


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## velvetfoot (Aug 5, 2015)

I will continue to burn pellets to save the planet.
Just kidding.


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## English BoB (Aug 5, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> I will continue to burn pellets to save the planet.
> Just kidding.



Then I will be over to pick up all that wood.....say this weekend ??????     around 8.00am LOL


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## moey (Aug 5, 2015)

Most folks consider heat nothing more then a commodity they will consume the cheapest source they have available to them.


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## billb3 (Aug 5, 2015)

moey said:


> Most folks consider heat nothing more then a commodity they will consume the cheapest source they have available to them.



Especially if they are trying to save for when they get older  and can afford to not give a damn.
There must be a chunk of change in selling pellets huh ?


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## Waterworker123 (Aug 5, 2015)

I filled my oil tank today and payed $185.90 a gallon. I'm still planning on buying a ton or two for three real cold January and February months. I  live in  maine


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 5, 2015)

billb3 said:


> There must be a chunk of change in selling pellets huh ?


Huge!
It's such easy money, too.....
I don't know why everybody doesn't get in on it...

Dan


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## Pellet-King (Aug 5, 2015)

The Pellet Era is coming to a end..........................


----------



## English BoB (Aug 6, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> The Pellet Era is coming to a end..........................



Oil just dropped 10 cnts to $2.58 here today.


----------



## English BoB (Aug 7, 2015)

Waterworker123 said:


> View attachment 160178
> 
> 
> 
> ...



$185.90 is steep even for ME. Lol


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 7, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> The Pellet Era is coming to a end..........................



I think it all depends on locality for both oil and pellets. I used Waterworker's $1.86gal example for oil, they probably live south of Waterville where prices for oil are lower than in Northern Maine (on average, there are exceptions).

Now if Waterworker paid $1.86gal and has access to pellets with 8,300BTU rating at $220/ton, its a wash as far as cost  Now if Waterworker has a higher BTU pellet at $225/ton then its gonna be cheaper to burn pellets based on what he paid for oil.





Some like the convenience of oil, others don't mind getting a workout lugging bags around. We are only talking pennies if oil drops more or pellets drop more. So it really is a matter of taste as far as what prices are for each in your area. Why Waterworker paid for oil when I see pellets in northern and southern Maine for $219/ton (8,500 BTU) must mean they enjoy the convenience of not having to clean the stove and lug the bags, but economically Waterworker "technically" paid more for oil.


----------



## billb3 (Aug 7, 2015)

What is Waterworker's break-even point if his oil boiler is new and 90% efficient instead of 65-70% efficient and where do you find pellets for $220 a short ton in 2015 ?


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 7, 2015)

Take a ride up RT 4 in Turner $219 ton at 3 places all within 5 miles... Paris Farmers Union is selling them right now at $225/ton here in Maine or $234 delivered. Guess what I am saying is it seems to depend on where you are and not everyone has a new boiler. If oil is $1.86gal if you have an older boiler and a 2 year old pellet stove may make sense to keep with the pellets.  just my 2 cents


----------



## Jocko1 (Aug 10, 2015)

RIP pellets.  It's over.  If your burning pellets this season you are a total idiot.


----------



## billb3 (Aug 10, 2015)

a very warm total idiot


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 10, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> RIP pellets.  It's over.  If your burning pellets this season you are a total idiot.



count me as idiot #1


----------



## Jason845845 (Aug 10, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> RIP pellets.  It's over.  If your burning pellets this season you are a total idiot.


*you're.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 10, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> .....  If your burning pellets this season you are a total idiot.


Everyone has a right to say stupid things.
Don't abuse the privilege.


----------



## Tonyray (Aug 10, 2015)

don't forget to add the cost of getting the Oil furnace serviced each year cheap oil or not...
btw: if your not going to use pellets anymore, why come to the forum...?


----------



## earl764 (Aug 10, 2015)

I'll be filling the tank, but also buying 4 tons of pellets.

I enjoy the stove too much. It's warmer than oil, and our stove is in the living room/central point in the house.

The cats would also be sad without it(see profile image).

Earl


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 10, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> RIP pellets.  It's over.  If your burning pellets this season you are a total idiot.



if you are looking to get rid of your pellet stove, let me know, know plenty of folks who'd love to go from oil to pellets...


----------



## Michael6268 (Aug 10, 2015)

I heard a lot of people say they burnt pellets to "save" money. 
Now I hear them saying they are burning pellets to "waste" money.
Pellet suppliers and manufacturers must be loving it!


----------



## The Grintch (Aug 10, 2015)

I'll burn whatever is cheaper.  I have 5 tons in my garage and a 1/2 tank of oil.  I'll probable use as much cheap oil as I can.  Like everything, oil won't stay cheap for ever.

Have 2 fuel sources gives me options...I like options.


----------



## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 10, 2015)

Its a ambiance thing in this house. Plus its a constant warmth compared to the forced hot air.


----------



## moey (Aug 10, 2015)

Why root for the demise of pellets? Hopefully pellets and oil can coexist in a peaceful manner.


----------



## lostDuck (Aug 10, 2015)

wow ... is anyone in CT seeing prices lower that $2 for prepay?


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 10, 2015)

moey said:


> Why root for the demise of pellets? Hopefully pellets and oil can coexist in a peaceful manner.



must be a full moon...


----------



## Michael6268 (Aug 10, 2015)

moey said:


> Why root for the demise of pellets? Hopefully pellets and oil can coexist in a peaceful manner.





I think most realistic people are comparing pellets/pellet industries actions to the greedy oil industry.


----------



## OverlookEGR (Aug 11, 2015)

English BoB said:


> Oil still $2.68 here in Albany area ???????



I just filled up my smallish oil tank for 2.399.  Here near Buffalo, NY.


----------



## relxn88 (Aug 11, 2015)

LordmetalZ28 said:


> Its a ambiance thing in this house. Plus its a constant warmth compared to the forced hot air.



Before I purchased a Pellet Stove, I had a fireplace for "ambiance". I know it was ambiance because 90% of the heat was going up the chimney.  I purchased the pellet insert, with a glass door, for the ambiance and whatever heat I gained. Well, to my surprise, the stove ended up heating my whole house and saving me money over burning oil.  That was 5 years ago.  This winter, whenever I decide to use the pellet stove, it will probably cost me more than burning oil.  I may not use the stove until the middle of winter, BUT, like when I only had a fireplace, it'll be for the "ambiance" and comforting extra heat.


----------



## moey (Aug 11, 2015)

Michael6268 said:


> I think most realistic people are comparing pellets/pellet industries actions to the greedy oil industry.



Perhaps but theres no billionaire pellet tycoons out there that I am aware of running the pellet industry. There no OPEC for pellets although the acronym actually works out.


----------



## MCPO (Aug 11, 2015)

Oil today here is down to $1.99 gal plus a 10%off coupon .  If it stays low I`ll sit on my $300 per ton pellets or use them only to heat the basement.


----------



## Brian26 (Aug 11, 2015)

lostDuck said:


> wow ... is anyone in CT seeing prices lower that $2 for prepay?



Not sure about prepay but cod is $1.72 in the New Haven area.


----------



## velvetfoot (Aug 11, 2015)

1.72?  Unbelievable!   My cod guy is now down to 2.58 here in the Albany area.


----------



## roadking88 (Aug 11, 2015)

cash price here this morning at $1.759


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 11, 2015)

roadking88 said:


> cash price here this morning at $1.759



Ad in local rag today.
$2.39
$2.49
Depending on plan...

Dan


----------



## Jocko1 (Aug 11, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> don't forget to add the cost of getting the Oil furnace serviced each year cheap oil or not...
> btw: if your not going to use pellets anymore, why come to the forum...?


I will tell you why now.  When I was looking to reduce my heating costs I found this forum and I was persuaded by many of you to give a pellet stove a try.  I spent 5000 dollars on a stove and then had to use my entire garage to store pellets, load the stove up everyday (sometimes more) and clean the stove once a week, and what did I save NOTHING.  So if you want to spend more money, work hard to load and clean a stove and increase the risk of burning your house down then you truly are an IDIOT.   Sometimes the truth hurts.  I believe this site has been infiltrated by the pellet industry and their propaganda has disillusioned many of you.


----------



## fire_man (Aug 11, 2015)

This should be good.........


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 11, 2015)

Shall we say another burnt tax payer from Jersey


----------



## slls (Aug 11, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> don't forget to add the cost of getting the Oil furnace serviced each year cheap oil or not...
> btw: if your not going to use pellets anymore, why come to the forum...?



Did my oil furnace service this spring. Nozzle, filter, flange gasket $12.12 with tax. labor free.


----------



## stevemartin (Aug 11, 2015)

...couldn't resist.


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 11, 2015)

Probably going to have some global cooling with all the fires in Canada and California. I have never seen ash fallout from a fire over thousand miles away till this year.


----------



## Michael6268 (Aug 11, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> I will tell you why now.  When I was looking to reduce my heating costs I found this forum and I was persuaded by many of you to give a pellet stove a try.  I spent 5000 dollars on a stove and then had to use my entire garage to store pellets, load the stove up everyday (sometimes more) and clean the stove once a week, and what did I save NOTHING.  So if you want to spend more money, work hard to load and clean a stove and increase the risk of burning your house down then you truly are an IDIOT.   Sometimes the truth hurts.  I believe this site has been infiltrated by the pellet industry and their propaganda has disillusioned many of you.



The pellet propaganda has definitely pulled the wool over many eyes.
Not so much back in the 80's, but now.
Go into a Harman dealer and ask to see a wood stove.
They will look at you like you have 3 heads!!
No $ to be had. Initial sale less, and no parts, riduculously priced fuel etc, in future sales...


----------



## tiger (Aug 11, 2015)

Brian26 said:


> cod is $1.72 in the New Haven area.



We don't have those in MD but will my stove burn crabs?

Or is "cod" an acronym for something?


----------



## billb3 (Aug 11, 2015)

tiger said:


> We don't have those in MD but will my stove burn crabs?
> 
> Or is "cod" an acronym for something?




cash on delivery


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 11, 2015)

Brian26 said:


> Not sure about prepay but cod is $1.72 in the New Haven area.


where do you see those prices?, newenglandoilprices.com does not reflect that


----------



## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 11, 2015)

slls said:


> Did my oil furnace service this spring. Nozzle, filter, flange gasket $12.12 with tax. labor free.


Dont forget the pump screen


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 11, 2015)

Jocko1 said:


> I will tell you why now.  When I was looking to reduce my heating costs I found this forum and I was persuaded by many of you to give a pellet stove a try.  I spent 5000 dollars on a stove and then had to use my entire garage to store pellets, load the stove up everyday (sometimes more) and clean the stove once a week, and what did I save NOTHING.  So if you want to spend more money, work hard to load and clean a stove and increase the risk of burning your house down then you truly are an IDIOT.   Sometimes the truth hurts.  I believe this site has been infiltrated by the pellet industry and their propaganda has disillusioned many of you.


You tellum the truth!, I was lucky got in early and only paid $1800 for my whit in 1998, pellets were $134 a ton for year's, my house then was electric heat and was burning wood for 10 yrs, got sick of the stacking and carrying wood, bought a pellet stove and now I'm sick of buying/stacking/cleaning pellet stove, my back is shot and carrying a 40lb bag to load before work suck's! it was a novelty, it's wearing off fast.....my kids 22 and 19 have NEVER lived there lives in a evenly heated home, freeezing in one end hot in the other end...NO MORE!!


----------



## MCPO (Aug 11, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> You tellum the truth!, I was lucky got in early and only paid $1800 for my whit in 1998, pellets were $134 a ton for year's, my house then was electric heat and was burning wood for 10 yrs, got sick of the stacking and carrying wood, bought a pellet stove and now I'm sick of buying/stacking/cleaning pellet stove, my back is shot and carrying a 40lb bag to load before work suck's! it was a novelty, it's wearing off fast.....my kids 22 and 19 have NEVER lived there lives in a evenly heated home, freeezing in one end hot in the other end...NO MORE!!



OK, your points are taken , but you do make it sound a bit exaggerated.
  Sure , at this point in time , at least for many folks  it would seem utterly foolish to invest in a new multi thousand dollar pellet stove  when you have low oil prices and the ever increasing cost of pellets.
Personally I feel secure with 5 tons of super premiums stacked in the shed and my used $400 P38 in the house . I might need it again before long.
   We are all at the mercy of the fuel industries. In  1970 I built my house with electric heat (me being an electrician).  In 95 my elec bill was approaching 3k a year so I converted to an oil boiler (BB) . This spring the gas co did a survey of the street to determine if enough users would convert to gas if they ran a main in the street . I was one of only three who responded with a yes. Needless to say a gas main will not be installed on my street.  Looks like I`ll be heating with oil, pellets, or both for a while.
.


----------



## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 11, 2015)

MCPO said:


> OK,your points are taken , but you do make it sound a bit exaggerated.
> Sure , at this point in time , at least for many folks  it would seem utterly foolish to invest in a new multi thousand dollar pellet stove  when you have low oil prices and the ever increasing cost of pellets.
> Personally I feel secure with 5 tons of super premiums stacked in the shed and my used $400 P38 in the house . I might need it again before long.
> We are all at the mercy of the fuel industries. In  1970 I built my house with electric heat (me being an electrician).  In 95 my elec bill was approaching 3k a year so I converted to an oil boiler (BB) . This spring the gas co did a survey of the street to determine if enough users would convert to gas if they ran a main in the street . I was one of only three who responded with a yes. Needless to say a gas main will not be installed on my street.  Looks like I`ll be heating with oil, pellets, or both for a while.
> .


Why your nieghbors wouldnt respond to the gas offer is crazy. Pellets aside. Gas is the way to go. I would have never purchased my house if itwasnt natural gas and town sewer. Id pay any amount of money I had in my savings to get gas lines if I didnt have them


----------



## BrotherBart (Aug 11, 2015)

Always said I will never have gas in this house. Grew up with it but I have never seen a wood pile or stack of pellets explode and level a house.


----------



## canmic (Aug 12, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> I think it all depends on locality for both oil and pellets.



You can say that again!!  

Where I am, when the price of oil dropped, the governments just jacked up the taxes and the refineries and retailers jacked up their prices and kept the difference!

Right now, the price of gas, diesel and fuel oil is pretty much exactly the same as it was when oil was at about $90 per barrel!!

Gas is $4.82 per US gallon
Diesel is $4.44 per US gallon
Heating oil (delivered) for 250 gallons delivered at once is $4.28 per US gallon

I am terrified of what would happen to gas, diesel and heating oil prices if oil went back up to $95 a barrel!!  Probably $10 a gallon gasoline!!

By the time my oil tank is empty, I'll be ready to convert the boiler to pellets!!

Pellets were running up as high as $350/ton last winter, then dropped to $314/ton around mid May then dropped again to $250/ton on July 1st.  Mid July they dropped to $200/ton and now they are back up to $330/ton.  I am using prices of the same brand of bagged pellets for comparison, so it isn't an issue of different types or brands of pellets.

Luckily I got all I need for this winter, plus an extra 2 tons just in case, when the price was down at $200/ton.  I also got them to throw in free delivery because I bought so many at once (8.5 tons).


----------



## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 12, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Always said I will never have gas in this house. Grew up with it but I have never seen a wood pile or stack of pellets explode and level a house.


It only explodes when someone working on It dosent know what there doing and has no buisness working on it. Or when someone has no common sense how to react to a gas leak. Ive worked on gas and have used gas for 20plus years and im here talking with you today.


----------



## Peterfield (Aug 12, 2015)

LordmetalZ28 said:


> It only explodes when someone working on It dosent know what there doing and has no buisness working on it. Or when someone has no common sense how to react to a gas leak. Ive worked on gas and have used gas for 20plus years and im here talking with you today.



But what about tomorrow?


----------



## MCPO (Aug 12, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Always said I will never have gas in this house. Grew up with it but I have never seen a wood pile or stack of pellets explode and level a house.


Gas can be dangerous of course ,  but considering how widely used it is in so many homes and businesses , it is really quite safe at that.
I do recall a family who was blown up in their home (nearby town) about 30 yrs ago due to a gas explosion but the likelihood of that happening is likely to be one in a million.


----------



## notch (Aug 12, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> You tellum the truth!, I was lucky got in early and only paid $1800 for my whit in 1998, pellets were $134 a ton for year's, my house then was electric heat and was burning wood for 10 yrs, got sick of the stacking and carrying wood, bought a pellet stove and now I'm sick of buying/stacking/cleaning pellet stove, my back is shot and carrying a 40lb bag to load before work suck's! it was a novelty, it's wearing off fast.....my kids 22 and 19 have NEVER lived there lives in a evenly heated home, freeezing in one end hot in the other end...NO MORE!!



Like most things, you have to take the good with the bad. Good is a nice warm room on one side of the house, a fixed price for your entire winter fuel supply (assuming you buy all you need at the beginning of the heating season) regardless of what some OPEC prince or saber-rattling dictator says or does, reducing your carbon footprint, using a renewable fuel, and helping the US economy (assuming you buy US-made pellets). You've covered the bad already. 

I plan to mothball my stove and burn the dinosaurs until such time as pellets make economical sense again, which I can guarantee will not take very long. I definitely prefer having an alternative to oil, even if I don't use it until the cost warrants. 

You may want to consider changing your member name to something more fitting - Pellet-Hater comes to mind.


----------



## slls (Aug 12, 2015)

LordmetalZ28 said:


> Dont forget the pump screen


Too new for that.


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 12, 2015)

Family managed to catch their home blowing up on dash cam after someone ran off the road and hit the house meter.  Was all over the news early this week.


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 13, 2015)

Last summer this time I was all set to convert to NG, had the 98% efficient Lennox furnace all set to be installed, called Yankee Gas they told me because I live on a state owned road it would cost me $6000 to connect 30 feet to my house, there website says FREE hookup, said need special permits/police to direct traffic etc to tap into the gas line.


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 13, 2015)

I watched a crew horizontal bore in a line under a state highway in front of the county courthouse last week. Saw no traffic control or a orange cone or fence off the sidewalk. I mentioned to the Deputy the crew had the machine idling and they walked off to the café for lunch.


----------



## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 13, 2015)

I would have paid 6000$ for 3ft of pipe. Just get the gas in my house. Its worth every penny in my eyes


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 13, 2015)

Basically what I am saying is I would have done a bit of research into what the real cost of permits etc were and if they were giving you a blow off. I was talking to a phone and cable service guy and he made mention of the rural electrification and communication program that paid them to keep your phone active.


----------



## English BoB (Aug 14, 2015)

canmic said:


> You can say that again!!
> 
> Where I am, when the price of oil dropped, the governments just jacked up the taxes and the refineries and retailers jacked up their prices and kept the difference!
> 
> ...




Where are you located ?


----------



## Brian26 (Aug 14, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> where do you see those prices?, newenglandoilprices.com does not reflect that



cashheatingoil.com

Keep in mind that prices are way cheaper when you live near New Haven, one of the biggest heating oil entry ports in New England. They have to transport the oil North and that increases the prices.

My fuel oil dealer is literally 4 blocks from the terminal and has to drive about 3 miles on the highway to deliver the oil. 

If you put in New Haven's zip code 06510. Its 1.72.

Hartford area is around $2.00+

Think of the cost's to truck it North, store it, fill a small truck and then deliver it locally.

Around here they fill up right at the terminal. I believe New Haven is part of the Northeast Heating Oil Reserve.


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 15, 2015)

I got a coupon in the mail from Springer Oil, $1.85 until monday, will buy 100 gallons, i have 3/8 now and because some bozo put in the wrong vent whistle it stop's at 3/4, installed whistle for a 330 gal tank instead of a 275.


----------



## Peterfield (Aug 15, 2015)

I am still holding out for Dan's (Pete Zahria) 50% off sale on douglas firs with free delivery.


----------



## killie11 (Aug 15, 2015)

The pellet hate hurts my eyes.


----------



## stevemartin (Aug 15, 2015)

killie11 said:


> The pellet hate hurts my eyes.





Hahahahahaha!


----------



## Daveman (Aug 15, 2015)

...a little Maritime Canada input....

Last year we saw .95 to 1.11 for heating oil, my neighbour just filled her tank last week at 0.89..but those prices are plus GST of 5% and are per litre...multiply roughly by 4 for US gallon price and even at the current going rate of 300$ per ton for pellets (and the Eastern Embers plant is 28 miles up the road) I am way ahead and much warmer sticking with pellets. I did get lucky with the house design, its a small 3 level semi and the basement dweller 25 pdvc easily heats the house to the point of opening windows


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 15, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> I am still holding out for Dan's (Pete Zahria) 50% off sale on douglas firs with free delivery.


Oh man.... You just missed it


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 15, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> I watched a crew horizontal bore in a line under a state highway in front of the county courthouse last week. Saw no traffic control or a orange cone or fence off the sidewalk. I mentioned to the Deputy the crew had the machine idling and they walked off to the café for lunch.


like i said they folk the workin man over


----------



## Pellet-King (Aug 15, 2015)

killie11 said:


> The pellet hate hurts my eyes.


Hate is do to price gouging, no reason for pellet prices as shipping cost's are way down, only a fool would pay these prices


----------



## fedtime (Aug 16, 2015)

Daveman said:


> ...a little Maritime Canada input....
> 
> Last year we saw .95 to 1.11 for heating oil, my neighbour just filled her tank last week at 0.89..but those prices are plus GST of 5% and are per litre...multiply roughly by 4 for US gallon price and even at the current going rate of 300$ per ton for pellets (and the Eastern Embers plant is 28 miles up the road) I am way ahead and much warmer sticking with pellets. I did get lucky with the house design, its a small 3 level semi and the basement dweller 25 pdvc easily heats the house to the point of opening windows


I'm holding out for the Kent sale - last year, Cozys were $4.60 per bag during the September sale.  Rona tells me Eastern Embers will be $6.50 this year!  And hold off on the oil fill-up if you can.  I'm told we will see prices in the low $.70, maybe even $.60 before long.


----------



## hockeypuck (Aug 16, 2015)

I have a friend in the wood trading business.  He told me last week that there are some tarriffs about to expire on Canadian wood (October). Unsure if this will directly affect canadian pellets, but it will most likely flood the US market with low cost wood.  Throw on China Yuan sinking and their slow down, one would expect pellet prices to come in line.  I have not purchased yet.  Waiting.  Not my primary heat source either.  FYI.. lumber commodity prices for the past 12 months below.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 16, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> ... no reason for pellet prices as shipping cost's are way down... .



Maybe for you guys... You're lucky.
Not here.

Dan


----------



## maple1 (Aug 16, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> Hate is do to price gouging, no reason for pellet prices as shipping cost's are way down, only a fool would pay these prices



I don't think shipping costs are the only factor in pellet prices. And everyones fuel situations on this continent are not the same as yours. So don't think labelling people fools is warranted.


----------



## maple1 (Aug 16, 2015)

hockeypuck said:


> I have a friend in the wood trading business.  He told me last week that there are some tarriffs about to expire on Canadian wood (October). Unsure if this will directly affect canadian pellets, but it will most likely flood the US market with low cost wood.  Throw on China Yuan sinking and their slow down, one would expect pellet prices to come in line.  I have not purchased yet.  Waiting.  Not my primary heat source either.  FYI.. lumber commodity prices for the past 12 months below.



Wood doesnt seem very low cost to buy up here, so wouldnt expect to see a cheap market flood happen.


----------



## slls (Aug 16, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Wood doesnt seem very low cost to buy up here, so wouldnt expect to see a cheap market flood happen.



 I thought the Canadian government owned most of the forests, they seem to in NB.


----------



## maple1 (Aug 16, 2015)

There is more % private ownership in NS than in NB.

Also, it would be the provincial government that owns Crown land, and not the federal government. Although Queen Liz is technically the root of both - another whole ball of worms...


----------



## hockeypuck (Aug 16, 2015)

maple1 said:


> Wood doesnt seem very low cost to buy up here, so wouldnt expect to see a cheap market flood happen.


Three reasons for pellets to go down. 
1.  Canadian dollar. vs. US dollar Year over year. 
2.  Yuan plunge.. US/Canadian wood more expensive to export to China
3.  Euro Vs. Dollar.. see #2. 
4. Oil Glut. 

Have I missed something?


----------



## Bioburner (Aug 16, 2015)

Europe already is accepting higher energy costs for less reliance on oil. So they will import more wood to feed boilers.


----------



## maple1 (Aug 17, 2015)

hockeypuck said:


> Three reasons for pellets to go down.
> 1.  Canadian dollar. vs. US dollar Year over year.
> 2.  Yuan plunge.. US/Canadian wood more expensive to export to China
> 3.  Euro Vs. Dollar.. see #2.
> ...



Guess we'll have to wait & see then.

When do you think prices will go down?


----------



## PinetreePellets (Aug 17, 2015)

LordmetalZ28 said:


> I would have paid 6000$ for 3ft of pipe. Just get the gas in my house. Its worth every penny in my eyes



I got 3" of black iron sitting around somewhere, but i only accept cash


----------



## canmic (Aug 17, 2015)

slls said:


> I thought the Canadian government owned most of the forests, they seem to in NB.



It's a lot more complicated than that, actually.

In Canada, almost all of the land (over 90%) is owned by either the queen, referred to as "crown land" (represented by the federal government).  Another 8% is owned by the First Nations (you call them Indians down south) ie: the "Reserve Lands".  In the early 1900s, the Federal government turned over control of about half of the queen's land (48% of all the land in the country) to the Provincial governments (like State governments in the USA).

There are a few other types of land, not owned by the queen (crown):

1) The railways were given ownership of a bunch of land in exchange for building the railways.  That land is true Freehold.  The railways own it in every way, up to a height of some number of feet that I forget and to the highest expected edge of any waterways (high tide for the ocean, spring run for rivers, etc..) 

2) SOME small amounts of land were given by the queens/kings to various people or companies between about 1600 AD and 1930 AD.  These are sometimes Freeholds and sometimes Fee Tail (basically you can't sell it and it can only pass to your next in line heir, if you have no heir, it reverts to the crown).  Some were also Life Estates that couldn't be sold or passed on to heirs but I don't think there are any of those left, there might be.

3) The First Nations used to be considered Fee Simple, but our wonderful court system has invented a whole new kind of ownership called "aboriginal title"  which is extremely confusing and means something different depending on who you talk to.  That court decision basically put Canada into a recession for the forseeable future.

Other than the First Nations, Railways and the tiny bits of land that were given away by the queens/kings, it's all still government land.

People who "buy" land or are "given" land by the federal or provincial governments are not actually the owners of the land.  Their interest in the land is a "Land Tenure" referred to as "Fee Simple Tenure".  They THINK they "own" it, but, they don't.  One HUGE important difference is that the government owns all the resources.  That includes:  mineral resources, trees, water from the ground (but not rainwater if you catch it before it hits the ground), the air above the land and almost anything else you can think of.

So, unless you have Aboriginal Title or have land that was either part of the railway lands or was one of the tiny number of freeholds (many were given to the church and the church makes a point of buying any freeholds they can get their hands on), you are basically a tenant on government land and you need a permit to cut down a tree.

Logging companies pay stumpage fees that are set by the provincial or federal government, oil companies pay oil royalties to the provincial or federal government, etc...

And if you dig a hole in your backyard and find gold, not only does it not belong to you but whoever files a claim on it first can come in and turn your entire property into a pit mine and they don't have to compensate you at all.  You also can't keep licensed prospectors from coming onto your land and taking "samples" which can be truckloads of rock at a time.

Many people don't know or understand all this, which is why we didn't have our own version of the American Revolution.

Sorry for the history lesson, but I thought that it might be interesting. If not, why did you read all the way down to here?


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## sam_m (Aug 17, 2015)

That court decision basically put Canada into a recession for the forseeable future.

Interesting lesson indeed. Can you elaborate on the above point?


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## Bioburner (Aug 17, 2015)

Courts also decided that if your living outside of Canada you can't vote either even thou you still pay taxes


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## canmic (Aug 17, 2015)

maple1 said:


> I don't think shipping costs are the only factor in pellet prices. And everyones fuel situations on this continent are not the same as yours. So don't think labelling people fools is warranted.



I recently had a long talk with a friend who is part owner of a very big pellet making company.  It was interesting.

Pellet prices, like oil prices, are tricky.

It's all about supply and demand and inventory.  

Also, there are speculators playing in the wood pellet market now, similar to what happens with mining and oil.

Last winter was really really cold so a bunch of speculator types pre-bought the right to buy millions of tons from various pellet mills at a set price, for delivery in a given month.  The pellet mills MUST deliver those pellets to those buyers at those prices.  If they can't make them for some reason (equipment problems or whatever) then they have to BUY them and deliver them that way, the penalties are HUGE if they don't.

So, what happens is that if the mill gets to the end of the month and they have more pellets than they have pre-sold, then they look for buyers for that month's "extra" pellets.  Keeping pellets in inventory is very expensive for them, so they want to sell them off immediately.  They do keep some "just in case" inventory so that they can be sure to meet their commitments for the next month, but they don't want to keep too many sitting around.

Most of the power plants that were buying pellets are converting back to oil because oil is cheap, BUT they have a lot of room to store pellets and their pellet inventories were depleted by the long winter and pellet shortages so they had to refill those inventories, just in case the price of oil goes up again.

It can also go the other way.  If the price of pellets seems to be going down, and the speculators "right to buy" is above the market price, then they will let that option expire and that will free up a bunch of pellets for the mill to sell, so they have to look for a buyer for them, to make room for making more pellets.  But the mill isn't sure if the buyer will buy or not, until the contract actually expires (ie: the 1st of the next month).

So, in a nutshell, it's all about timing.

I needed to buy a bunch of pellets for the winter so I kept my eye on the prices for a while, they always dipped down right at the end of each month and then jumped back up again.  I stocked up at the beginning of July for $200 a ton.  A few days before I bought, before the June contracts came due, the price was almost $300 a ton, at the end of July, due to the fires in BC, some of the pellet mills were closed for part of July so the price peaked back up at $315 a ton, it's floating around $300 a ton right now.

Of course, different pellets are different prices, just like different oil sells for different prices (Sweet light crude, West Texas Intermediate, etc).  I'm using premium mixed softwood pellets (SPF) as my benchmark, because that's what I burn.  

So, if it starts raining in BC, expect pellet prices to come down a bit at the end of august but not too far down because a lot of people with pellet stoves/boilers/etc will be buying them and that will keep the price from falling too much.

Not many people are thinking about cold winters and pellets around the 4th of July weekend, and the fires hadn't started in BC yet, so it was a great time to buy.  If the fires hadn't happened in July, then the price likely would have been around $175 a ton at the beginning of august.

I haven't looked at numbers recently but last time I looked, over 2/3 of all the wood pellets in the world are made in BC...

Interestingly, 2 major pellet mills in BC went bankrupt in 2013 and 2014 because they couldn't find any buyers for millions of tons of pellets!!


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## canmic (Aug 17, 2015)

sam_m said:


> That court decision basically put Canada into a recession for the forseeable future.
> 
> Interesting lesson indeed. Can you elaborate on the above point?



Basically it let the First Nations shut down most of the mining, stop any new natural gas production and transport, stop any oil transport, etc...

The oil price crash put things "on the edge" and shutting down all the mining put the nail in the economic coffin.

But the lawyers are getting VERY rich


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## ylomnstr (Aug 17, 2015)

I just ordered oil for the first time in about 4 years.  $1.95 per gallon, so I couldn't pass it up.  I'll probably still get my normal 4 tons of pellets, but I may be more cautious about when I use them.  I planned on getting 5 tons this year since I added a pellet insert in my basement fireplace last year, but I'll hold off for now.


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## canmic (Aug 17, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Courts also decided that if your living outside of Canada you can't vote either even thou you still pay taxes



Actually, odds are that if you are still paying Canadian taxes, you can still vote.

The decision was that if you have not maintained any Canadian residence, are not working abroad for the Canadian Government (ie: diplomats, military, etc), and you have not stepped foot into Canada for over 5 years, then you can't vote.

The law is that if you do not have a residence in Canada, are not working for the Canadian government and do not enter Canada, any income that you earned elsewhere over 2 years prior to your return to Canada is not subject to Canadian income taxes.

I looked at it all pretty carefully, and it's nearly impossible to be paying Canadian taxes and not be able to vote (if you are a Canadian Citizen).  I suppose that someone could really do things in some sort of extremely taxable way and manage it, like if you move to the US and don't transfer your pensions into a 401k, but you'd have to almost deliberately be paying taxes that you could legally easily not have to pay.


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## canmic (Aug 17, 2015)

ylomnstr said:


> I just ordered oil for the first time in about 4 years.  $1.95 per gallon, so I couldn't pass it up.  I'll probably still get my normal 4 tons of pellets, but I may be more cautious about when I use them.  I planned on getting 5 tons this year since I added a pellet insert in my basement fireplace last year, but I'll hold off for now.



I checked the price of oil here friday, just to see, it was $4.78 per US gallon.

The governments here tacked on a bunch of new carbon taxes and transit taxes July 31st.

Yep, they put transit tax on heating oil.  They put it on gas and electricity too.


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## Bioburner (Aug 17, 2015)

canmic said:


> Actually, odds are that if you are still paying Canadian taxes, you can still vote.
> 
> The decision was that if you have not maintained any Canadian residence, are not working abroad for the Canadian Government (ie: diplomats, military, etc), and you have not stepped foot into Canada for over 5 years, then you can't vote.
> 
> ...


 The court decision was recent. I have been looking at moving south and a site I subscribe to published it earlier this summer and I thought it was pretty extreme in making one stay in country for more than 80% of the time in order to maintain voting privileges even if they are taking your $$$.


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## Grisu (Aug 17, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> The court decision was recent. I have been looking at moving south and a site I subscribe to published it earlier this summer and I thought it was pretty extreme in making one stay in country for more than 80% of the time in order to maintain voting privileges even if they are taking your $$$.



Is that any different from foreign residents living and paying taxes in Canada but without voting rights? 

The ruling was also that after 5 years of not living in Canada you cannot vote any longer in their elections: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lon...te-in-federal-elections-court-rules-1.3160110 It depends on the tax treaty that Canada has with the country the person lives in but usually after 5 years you would pay taxes in your country of residence, not Canada. In the US that happens after 2 years at the latest. The two plaintiffs, for example, are both paying taxes in the US, one is even an US citizen: http://www.cavalluzzo.com/docs/default-source/cases/c58876-rere_4-(c1382077xa0e3a).pdf?sfvrsn=0


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## LordmetalZ28 (Aug 17, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> I got 3" of black iron sitting around somewhere but i only accept cash


I have the gas already. Wouldnt even look at houses without natural gas and town water and sewer when I bought


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## slls (Aug 17, 2015)

canmic said:


> It's a lot more complicated than that, actually.
> 
> In Canada, almost all of the land (over 90%) is owned by either the queen, referred to as "crown land" (represented by the federal government).  Another 8% is owned by the First Nations (you call them Indians down south) ie: the "Reserve Lands".  In the early 1900s, the Federal government turned over control of about half of the queen's land (48% of all the land in the country) to the Provincial governments (like State governments in the USA).
> 
> ...



I thought Canada divorced the Queen you are referring to?


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## bags (Aug 17, 2015)

canmic,
Interesting stuff. Thanks. Wow, what a screwed up mess though. Just a great example of why big government does not work. What is ridiculous is many in the US vote for stuff that promotes stuff you speak of. They had better get their head out of the sand.


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## maple1 (Aug 17, 2015)

No permit needed here to cut my trees down.


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## bags (Aug 17, 2015)

There is NO WAY I could deal with an all controlling set up like what canmic deals with. My hat is off to ya. This cowboy doesn't play those games.


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 17, 2015)

hockeypuck said:


> Three reasons for pellets to go down.
> 1.  Canadian dollar. vs. US dollar Year over year.
> 2.  Yuan plunge.. US/Canadian wood more expensive to export to China
> 3.  Euro Vs. Dollar.. see #2.
> ...



Oh yeah.


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## ScotL (Aug 18, 2015)

canmic said:


> .
> .
> .
> But the lawyers are getting VERY rich


Funny how it always seems to work out that way.
(Insert favorite lawyer joke here)


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## Brian26 (Aug 22, 2015)

Down to $1.60 a gallon in the New Haven, CT area. I think we may see $1.50 a gallon soon with oil prices still dropping.


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## HarmanManP43 (Aug 24, 2015)

Chinese markets took a serious dump while we slept... While i'm loving the cheap heating oil it doesn't offset the beating my 401k is taking over the last 2 weeks!


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## Bioburner (Aug 24, 2015)

I had advised my parents to pull out a month ago and they finally did it two weeks ago. Not a total rout, I got a Big thanks Saturday.


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## HarmanManP43 (Aug 24, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> I had advised my parents to pull out a month ago and they finally did it two weeks ago. Not a total rout, I got a Big thanks Saturday.



Good catch. Being 28 I'm pretty aggressively invested so the 401 doesn't really get touched.  I'm young enough where it can be left in and it will recover on its own!

I managed to move a good chunk of my private portfolio but regret not pulling it all as I still took an ugly hit on what I left in.


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## vinny11950 (Aug 24, 2015)

Dow is down 745 in premarket this morning!  S&P down 87.  Oil will keep going lower because of fundamentals and because it will follow the rest of the market down.

I have electric heat baseboards, so I will keep buying pellets.  But if you have an oil heating option,  now is a good time to stock up on heating oil.


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## Bioburner (Aug 24, 2015)

Historically will-should recover in three years. Folks are in 70's and a drop of 1000 points this morning is enough to give almost anyone a heart attack.


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## Lake Girl (Aug 24, 2015)

canmic said:


> That court decision basically put Canada into a recession for the forseeable future.


A little late to the party but that court decision speaks more to the mess in BC than the rest of Canada.  Many unsettled land claims there.  Locally, First Nations lost out over logging near their reserve based on treaty conditions https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14274/index.do



canmic said:


> mineral resources, trees, water from the ground


Land patent spells out property rights ... in Ontario, MNR reverted white pine ownership years ago to the land owner at least for our location.  http://www.carflaw.ca/rsv_of_timber.March2013.pdf

It appears that mineral rights in Southern Ontario have reverted to land owners as well. http://www.mci.mndm.gov.on.ca/mines/lands/mam/mam-workbook.pdf  For local mining concerns, New Gold purchased the land outright from property owners.  I checked on this years ago in relation to our property.  Mining interests have to provide prior notification of staking and have to repair any damage they create or purchase the land.

Back to the discussion at hand:  Heating fuel costs are still ridiculous in our area so pellets still make sense.


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## moey (Aug 24, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Historically will-should recover in three years. Folks are in 70's and a drop of 1000 points this morning is enough to give almost anyone a heart attack.



They probably died unnecessarily then has market is only down .75% or so now.


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## HarmanManP43 (Aug 24, 2015)

moey said:


> They probably died unnecessarily then has market is only down .75% or so now.



U.S. Markets are down around that much yes.  But I think you will find that many peoples portfolios are heavily invested in foreign markets too. Hence why mine dropped 4% in 2 days :/


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## bags (Aug 24, 2015)

Give me bricks, land, and useful things. My sister is a stock broker and she can not balance her own check book.

I will never own a piece of paper worth $10K one day and $1K the next. That is my investment strategy and roll of my dice.


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## bags (Aug 24, 2015)

It's OK for the Feds and powers to play to do Ponzi tactics but when they get beat by smarter idiots those idiots go to prison.


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## Pete Zahria (Aug 25, 2015)

bags said:


> Give me bricks, land, and useful things.
> My sister is a stock broker and she can not balance her own check book.
> I will never own a piece of paper worth $10K one day and $1K the next. .



But on the other hand, there are millions, that have made millions....

Dan


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## slls (Aug 26, 2015)

oil $1.699, looks like pellets are dead around here.


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## Pellet-King (Aug 28, 2015)

oil gone up min 15 cents around here today, was 1.79 now 1.96, crude is up $5 this week, gas will now be up 20 cents by tomorrow
Crude Oil+2.71 $45.27 look's like party's over and back to pellet's, say goodbye to $2 gas, WHY DID THEY EVER ALLOW OIL ON THE STOCK MARKET?


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## killie11 (Aug 29, 2015)

I don't think its the end of cheap oil yet. I think the fluctuation is due to the wild bits of the stock market this week, and it should be back to a normal trend soon.


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## Bioburner (Aug 29, 2015)

Gasoline dropped another nickel at the pumps yesterday afternoon while I was filling  I have not paid much below 2.50 for years and filled for 2.29


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## killie11 (Aug 29, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> Gasoline dropped another nickel at the pumps yesterday afternoon while I was filling  I have not paid much below 2.50 for years and filled for 2.29


I think the lowest I got was 1.96 in april.


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## Bioburner (Aug 29, 2015)

We are buffered a bit in the Midwest on prices. BPs refinery(north Indiana) that shut down by 50 % a couple weeks ago was coming back online last week otherwise we should have been closer to $2 by now. A farm site is predicting a spike in fuel oil as October harvest season approaches and refineries do some maintenance after the Labor Day weekend.


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## PinetreePellets (Aug 29, 2015)

US Crude spiked from $38.85 to $45.27 in 2 days.. Premature to call pellets "dead". Yes oil is cheap now but it is also only Sept 29th.


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## killie11 (Aug 29, 2015)

PinetreePellets said:


> US Crude spiked from $38.85 to $45.27 in 2 days.. Premature to call pellets "dead". Yes oil is cheap now *but it is also only Sept 29th*.
> 
> View attachment 160984


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## Tonyray (Aug 29, 2015)

Filled the Oil Tank yesterday... 2.01 per gallon.... Still plan to burn pellets all winter though.. Love the whole concept of a pellet stove..
Oil will give us domestic hot water for quite a long long time...


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## BrotherBart (Aug 29, 2015)

Yeah everybody got excited about a hurricane and a busted Shell Trans Nigar pipeline that both turned out to be non-events. The real world returns Monday.


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## vinny11950 (Aug 29, 2015)

A lot of wealth was wiped out from the Asian markets in the past few weeks - families that played the market on margin and through high risk bank accounts are now broke and will cut back spending drastically, depressing commodity prices even more.

If you want to nerd out some more on commodity prices, look up Commodities Supercycles.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-07/maybe-the-commodities-supercycle-is-actually-real

I have read some predictions that put the bottom around 2017.  Don't know if it applies to oil specifically.


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## DneprDave (Aug 29, 2015)

I paid $2.00 /gallon for oil this week I only used 165 gallons of oil last year! This is due to my pellet stove. Before the pellet stove, I used about 600 gallons a year. The price of pellets here hasn't varied from $198/ton in the last four years I've had my stove.


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## Bioburner (Aug 29, 2015)

I wonder if all the fires though will have a impact on harvest of trees for pellets in WA and surrounding states? We in MN keep seeing and smelling smoke. I'm probably only a phone call away from being called to go fight fires


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## DneprDave (Aug 29, 2015)

There are fires every year in eastern Washington, it doesn't seem to affect lumber prices. The pellets I get come from a lumber mill in Tacoma, they gotta do something with all the sawdust they generate. They say it is the oldest pellet mill in the U.S.

Dave


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## Pellet-King (Aug 30, 2015)

Home Depot near me has 338 ton's?, price is still $269   
$269.00 /pallet(lift)
Pick Up In Store
FREE
Available for Pick Up: Today
338 In stock at:
Enfield #6214

Change Pick Up Store


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## wayoutthere007 (Aug 31, 2015)

Filled the tank today for $1.659 at PitStopFuels. Lowest it's been in a long time. I'll probably just pick up a ton or so to shoulder the really cold days if it keeps this low.


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## PinetreePellets (Aug 31, 2015)

US Crude jumped almost 9% today. total up 27% in 3 days trading... Largest 3 day gain since 1990


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## wayoutthere007 (Sep 1, 2015)

I checked this morning and pitstopfuels went from 1.659 to 1.899.


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## Bioburner (Sep 1, 2015)

Opening markets showing a NYMEX  on crude and gas down over 4%. Get ready for holiday gouging at the pump as AAA says the most people since 08 hitting road for the holiday. I filled last night as some stations were bumping prices by 20 cents or more. I have a 80 mile hike to work at Brainard International Raceway for the weekend.


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 1, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> .. I have a 80 mile hike to work at Brainard International Raceway for the weekend.



Very cool...

Dan


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## Bioburner (Sep 1, 2015)

I am there to deliver and set up a fireworks display


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## Jason845845 (Sep 5, 2015)

Just called my pellet supplier.  Price per ton has gone up another $24 since two weeks ago to $299, which is up from $209 a couple years ago.  Screw this.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 5, 2015)

I can't believe I saw yesterday HD has a price outside the store on their pellets for 269.


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 5, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> I can't believe I saw yesterday HD has a price outside the store on their pellets for 269.


$279 @Lowes
$282 @Walmart
(locally)

Dan


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## Peterfield (Sep 5, 2015)

I have a brother-in-law wired into the oil industry and I was asking him last night how the industry was doing.  He said its bleak for the foreseeable future and his oil company is offering buyouts to its employees.  Saudis are pumping like crazy to capture market share and Iran is not a factor, except that if the treaty is ratified, that will be another million barrels of oil on the market, which will drive prices down even further.  Also affecting the downward trend is the explosion of alternative energy, particularly solar, that is making a bigger impact on fossil fuels prices than most people are aware of.  His profession is looking ahead and right now, there is no expectation that oil will rebound, except for some noted gouging in sections of the northeast.


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## Peterfield (Sep 5, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> $279 @Lowes
> $282 @Walmart
> (locally)
> 
> Dan



I'm going to make a few spot checks later today but I hit a couple of HD's and Lowes over my way the other day and they are loaded with multiple brands and you can buy all the pellets you want at $300+ per ton that you want.  I always drive around the back of the building and there you'll usually find them stacking them wherever they can.  The forklift drivers are a wealth of information regarding the lack of any significant interest at the present time on buying pellets.  I agree that the smaller pellet dealers are stuck pretty much at their present price points but the big box stores have the margins to set pellets up as loss leaders to get folks into their stores if they have to.  I am sure they already know from comparative sales figures what's really going on and I am not plan I to do any buying for another month or so especially with oil as a great shoulder option going into the heating season.


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## pete7713 (Sep 5, 2015)

Lowes in Maryland $231


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## bogieb (Sep 5, 2015)

HD is still at $259/ton around here - less than I paid a local dealer last fall for pellets, so I'm good with that.


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 5, 2015)

bogieb said:


> HD is still at $259/ton around here - less than I paid a local dealer last fall for pellets, so I'm good with that.


For the same brand?


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## bogieb (Sep 6, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> For the same brand?



No, but the brand I got last year was super ashy, cakey and generally nasty (Curran's blends). I know, other people said their Currans burned okay, but those 2 tons (I still have a ton in the basement) were only beaten as the worst pellet I've burned by TSC pine bedding (the dark pellets). Even Heat'rz and Maine's Choice were much better burning. FSU's were outstanding by contrast (and I know they aren't anything special - compared to some Vermont's that I got). Hey, if I'm gonna burn crap, then I don't want to pay $280+/ton!


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## Pete Zahria (Sep 6, 2015)

bogieb said:


> ...Hey, if I'm gonna burn crap, then I don't want to pay $280+/ton!


Can't blame you there!
If I was going to burn crap, I would want the cheapest I could find...  

Dan


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## aviator79 (Sep 10, 2015)

I got 100 gallons of oil  for $1.69/gal a couple of weeks ago. Hoping to see that price again and fill both tanks for ~$700 and then pick up a ton or so of GTs from Lowes for $250/ton.  Wish I had left the wood burning stove in place rather than spending nearly $700 last year to install my Harman.


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## English BoB (Sep 10, 2015)

We dropped here to $2.44 today for COD. Saw pellets for $249 not sure of the brand.

BOB


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## Brian26 (Oct 30, 2015)

I have a wood stove and don't burn pellets. I have a ton of friends/family with pellet stoves here in CT asking my my thoughts as I told them I am not going to burn much wood this winter if these prices hold. With current oil prices I have been telling many of them it really makes no sense to burn pellets this winter if oil prices stay this low. I know many of you have your different reasons but many of my friends/family have kids and are extremely busy. I said its probably much cheaper to just turn the oil burner on. Pellet prices around here are still way high. Lowes/HD still asking $269 a ton. Just looking to give friends/family good advice. Just seems oil is the way to go currently. 

New Haven, CT area you can get oil COD for $1.61 a gallon. These are wholesale prices and oil dropped since the 10/26 update.


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