# Interesting Articles on CFLs



## Eric Johnson (Feb 5, 2008)

http://www.slate.com/id/2183606/


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## colebrookman (Feb 10, 2008)

I just received my 6 bulbs from the Energy Star Lights program.  Used them to replace my 75 watters in my kitchen ceiling.  Had to replace the dimmer switch but the saving is worth it.  6 new bulbs equals 1.5 old bulbs and the light, though a little color change, seems brighter.  I've already replaced the other lights in the house and I just wish I could use them in an unheated barn/garage.  I may never reach a Zero energy home but with wood heat I may give it a try.


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## colebrookman (Feb 14, 2008)

A follow up on CFLs.  Just had my free energy audit from the local utility, WMEC in Ma.  Part of the audit was to replace most light bulbs in the house with CFls, for free. Dummie me had already paid $$ to replace them so I only got two bulbs for upstairs lamps.  If your thinking of converting to CFls check with your local energy audit folks.  Free is a good word, at least in this case.


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## Cazimere (Feb 14, 2008)

I replaced 20 bulbs with cfl's over 2 1/2 months ago @ a cost to me of about 25.00. The power company paid 50%
of the cost. My electric bill has gone from 57.00 for Nov. to 48.00 for Dec & Jan. Half way through Feb. they will have paid for themselves already : )


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## steam man (Feb 15, 2008)

Anybody try any LED bulbs yet? Pricey though..............


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## jebatty (Feb 15, 2008)

colebrookman said:
			
		

> I just wish I could use them in an unheated barn/garage.



Many CFL's are rated to well below 0F. They take a little longer to come up to full light when it is cold. I have them on our exterior door lights, and they light up at -10F with no problem. Another garage advantage, CFL's seem to have pretty good resistance to vibration from a door opener. Maybe replace only some in the barn/garage, so you get full light from the incandescent and the CFL's will have some time to get up to full light for the rest of the light you need.


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## colebrookman (Feb 15, 2008)

!0f that's good to know.  I was going to try some mixed in with the old bulbs as you suggested.  The cost saving is substantial and it's good for the planet. A win/win.  As for leds, they are too costly, not many choices and I believe the are more costly to operate than CFLs.  But the bulbs will outlast me.


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## jebatty (Feb 15, 2008)

colebrookman said:
			
		

> As for leds, they are too costly, not many choices and I believe the are more costly to operate than CFLs.  But the bulbs will outlast me.



LED's take significantly less electricity than CFL's per light output. On a pure economic scale, I've never costed them out, but they will be the primary lighting source within a few years. 

CFL's actually consume more electricity than their apparent wattage, due to a power factor (pf) less than 1, as CFL VA > V x A. I've never checked PF for LED's. In residential applications this extra used electricity is not charged directly to the consumer, probably is built into the rate structure, but it is a real use of electricity. 

The VA concept you might have seen in UPS systems for computers, which are rated in VA not in Watts. A computer system typically has a PF of about 0.6. This means that if watts used is 400, VA is 667, and this is what the real power used amounts to.


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## colebrookman (Feb 15, 2008)

http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/led-lighting/index.aspx
my limited information came from the above web site. They seem to be in the lead with home Leds.  As you mention, LEDs according to them use only 1/3 to 1/30 of a watt compared to CFLs.  Then they say LEDs  and CFLs produce the same amount of light per watt.  I guess I'm missing something in the translation.


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## reaperman (Feb 15, 2008)

The life of a CFL is significantly shorter if it is only turned on for a few minutes at a time: In the case of a 5-minute on/off cycle the lifespan of a CFL can be up to 85% shorter, reducing its lifespan to the level of an incandescent lamp.[11][12][13] The US Energy Star program says to leave them on at least 15 minutes at a time to mitigate this problem.[14]

Above is a little fact I ran across the other night while web surfing on wikipedia.


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## jebatty (Feb 15, 2008)

You're close. Watts is a measure of electric power consumed, it is not a measure of light output. What they mean is that for much less power consumed you are getting the same light output as the equivalent in watts incandescent bulb. 

In other words, a 100 watt incandescent bulb has X light output. A CFL with X light output may consume only 25 watts of electricity, and an LED with X light output may consume only 5 watts (an estimate) of electricity.


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## colebrookman (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification. It's tough to come up to speed and know what is best without being a technician.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 15, 2008)

reaperman said:
			
		

> The life of a CFL is significantly shorter if it is only turned on for a few minutes at a time: In the case of a 5-minute on/off cycle the lifespan of a CFL can be up to 85% shorter, reducing its lifespan to the level of an incandescent lamp.[11][12][13] The US Energy Star program says to leave them on at least 15 minutes at a time to mitigate this problem.[14]
> 
> Above is a little fact I ran across the other night while web surfing on wikipedia.



I have a CFL in my boiler room which I turn on when I go out there for the first time at night, and I leave it on until the last time I go out before bed to load up the boiler. I figure it's worth the little extra power consumption to extend the bulb's life. Plus, it's cold out there, so it takes awhile to warm up anyway.


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## begreen (Feb 16, 2008)

reaperman said:
			
		

> The life of a CFL is significantly shorter if it is only turned on for a few minutes at a time: In the case of a 5-minute on/off cycle the lifespan of a CFL can be up to 85% shorter, reducing its lifespan to the level of an incandescent lamp.[11][12][13] The US Energy Star program says to leave them on at least 15 minutes at a time to mitigate this problem.[14]
> 
> Above is a little fact I ran across the other night while web surfing on wikipedia.



That is so true. The article suggests usage of 6 hrs. per day. There are only a couple places in our house where we leave lights on for at least 6 hrs. The others we switch off. FWIW, we are not getting any great life from the replacement CFLs. They last about the same length of time as the halogen bulbs we had before them. Though they do use less power, the color of light is less nice, they are more expensive, and less environmentally friendly. The thought of a govt. mandating them is not the best plan. For comparison, we have halogen table lamps with a 50 w bulb that we run at half wattage (25w). These bulbs are now 25 years old and still going. Now that's impressive savings. 

We've also tried LED lighting, but so far it doesn't cut it. They are expensive and the light is very cold blue.


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## precaud (Feb 17, 2008)

BG, what brand of CFL's are failing on you? I've had good results with the GE ones. 4-1/2 years ago I replaced the 6 bulbs in the house that are typically left on for an hour or more at a time. Late last year I had my first failure, a bulb over my workstation computer that is on 7-8 hours a day 5 days a week. That's over 7500 hours... not too bad.


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## wally (Feb 17, 2008)

we use mostly sylvania cfl's, but we've got one older ge "compax" 15w, the type that flickers for a while until it warms up.  it has been in one of our floor lamps for over 15 years, and sees at least one hour of useage per day.  the sylvania's are newer, and don't flicker.  so far, they've been in place for about 2 years.

i've also got a single cfl out in the garage.  during winter, it takes a while for it to get bright, but it works fine.  that's also been out there for about 2 years.


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## wdc1160 (Feb 18, 2008)

I have been following the thread.  You guys have hit on some cool advantages 1. possibly free upgrade  2. cheaper operation 3. Less replacement/hassle. 4. Its green.


I have one to add.  Sometimes they just perform better.  Not to be likel "Tim The Toolman" about supercharging lightbulbs, but you can get more light out of CFL's than incandescant.

I have a garage with one fixture, and 1000 sq feet to light.  This company
http://www.feitelectric.com/
Used to sell a 350 watt equivlent bulb (no longer made)  It lights the dam place up like you've never seen.  Every person who enters the garage gives it a double take.  PS a normal 350 watt incadescant would pull to much wattage to be compatible with this fixture.  I can simply do something with this bulb that you can't do with incandescants.

Feit makes a 300 watt versions of the same bulb now.  Very cool.


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## precaud (Feb 18, 2008)

wally said:
			
		

> we use mostly sylvania cfl's, but we've got one older ge "compax" 15w, the type that flickers for a while until it warms up.


Boy, those flickering ge's are from the stone age!!

I recently bought some Sylvanias, and don't like them as much as the GE. They take forever to warm up and the light isn't as good quality. But they were cheap. We'll see how long they last.


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## wally (Feb 19, 2008)

precaud said:
			
		

> Boy, those flickering ge's are from the stone age!!


yup.  it's old.  but isn't that the point with a cfl?


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## jebatty (Feb 21, 2008)

Quick *oogle search on turning on-off CFL's has mixed answers. Generally life is shorter (sources do not agree on how much shorter) but most say turn off when not needed, disregard shortened life, as reduced electric use will more than pay for shorter life. Personal experience over 15 years is anecdotally inconclusive. Some have lasted for more than 10 years and others have failed within two years, and we always turn lights off when not needed, and almost all of our lights are CFL's, except those on dimmer circuits.

Life span rating I think is based on 50/50, ie, half will last longer than rating and half will last less. I also think this applies to all light bulbs, not just CFL's.


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## eba1225 (Feb 21, 2008)

As for the on-off scenario, I can attest that it dramatically shortened the life of the CFLs that I had.  If they lasted more than a year then that was alot, while the incads well outlasted the CFLs in that scenario.  So what I do is have indads in the outlets that are on-off scenarios and CFLs in those spaces that are long running.

I must agree that the CFLs do throw a lot of light.


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## wdc1160 (Feb 21, 2008)

I couldn't help but notice a large number of these CFL's are purpose built for "home gardening"
EX.  home grow lite,  grow lite, herb lite, cana light, reef light 4000 XL

Is this a new use for CFL's?  Or, is this old.  Does someone with more history on CFL's care to comment.


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