# Max wood load for a Dodge Caravan



## willworkforwood

I'm going to start scrounging in order to supplement the wood from my property, and will be using a 2003 Dodge Caravan.  This van has 7 seats and I originally figured that it should be built to handle 7 very large occupants (250 ea) - around 1750 lbs.  But after checking online, I found multiple sources saying that most vehicles aren't built well enough to handle the maximum number of large riders.  That didn't make a lot of sense, but not being an automotive engineer, what do I know?  Then I found the bit about GVWR and curb weight.  For the Caravan, that would be 5600-4238 = 1362 lbs.   So one of the 7 football players has to wait for the next van, and we still may have problems at the weigh station with 6.   No problem - I'll get the weight of the rear seats (which will be removed) and add that to the 1362 to get the actual max limit for a load of wood, and will be ok with that.  But if this is the real deal, why aren't car manufacturers required to put red stickers on the seats cautioning everyone before loading  to weigh themselves and their bags (i.e. luggage - wives would get weighed using secret numbers).


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## North of 60

I think a trailer is in order.


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## nate379

Those numbers are just a "suggestion".. Least that's what I said when I had 3.5 tons of gravel in the bed of my 1 ton truck. haha.  Used to haul 1-1.25 cords at a time in that truck too.


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## SolarAndWood

north of 60 said:
			
		

> I think a trailer is in order.



+1 with brakes.


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## lukem

Max load rating are just a lawyer's opinion.  That's my opinion anyway.

My F-150's door sticker says I shouldn't haul more than 1,600 lbs.  I've had at least 2,500 on there several times.  Yes I know it is illegal, and I know I'd be screwed if I got in an accident, but for a short trip down some backroads I'm not worried.  The truck handled it fine...just take it easy.

I also have a Caravan.  It is gutless...I'd be worried with that much weight on there....I'd be more worried about getting it stopped than anything.


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## quads

I have sold wood to customers that hauled it away in Dodge Caravans many times.  1/6th of a cord of seasoned oak is about the limit (1/2 face cord).  While they will actually hold more than that, possibly twice as much if stacked in carefully, I strongly discourage my customers from it.  Even with only 1/6th of a cord the rear suspension is squatting pretty seriously and the car-type tires are starting to look overloaded.  More than that is just plain scary, with bottomed out springs and squashed tires.....


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## Backwoods Savage

I never paid much attention to weight. I've hauled wood in a van before and all I did was watch the springs and tires. They will tell you when enough is enough. I think quads has it right.


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## willworkforwood

quads said:
			
		

> I have sold wood to customers that hauled it away in Dodge Caravans many times.  1/6th of a cord of seasoned oak is about the limit (1/2 face cord).  While they will actually hold more than that, possibly twice as much if stacked in carefully, I strongly discourage my customers from it.  Even with only 1/6th of a cord the rear suspension is squatting pretty seriously and the car-type tires are starting to look overloaded.  More than that is just plain scary, with bottomed out springs and squashed tires.....


I always appreciate getting real-life feedback like this.  And, You Da Man, Quads when it comes to wood - but here's what I get when I run those numbers.  1 cord of 20% red oak is approximately 3350 lbs (www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html).  1/6 of that is 558, which is way less than the 1362 "book" max, and also way less than a car full of normal size people.  Am I missing something here?


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## bpirger

Just remember that a broken spring is considerably more expensive to replace than many gallons of heating oil.....so don't shoot yourself in the foot....and take it very easy when loading up.  

I'd look into the trailer idea....same thing applies there though as well.


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## mecreature

GVWR is a suggestion... Made for warranties and such.. 

People overload all the time. Just use your head. 

Mini Vans are looked at differently by engineers and marketing people.

I think a trailer is the best choice too.


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## lukem

willworkforwood said:
			
		

> quads said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have sold wood to customers that hauled it away in Dodge Caravans many times.  1/6th of a cord of seasoned oak is about the limit (1/2 face cord).  While they will actually hold more than that, possibly twice as much if stacked in carefully, I strongly discourage my customers from it.  Even with only 1/6th of a cord the rear suspension is squatting pretty seriously and the car-type tires are starting to look overloaded.  More than that is just plain scary, with bottomed out springs and squashed tires.....
> 
> 
> 
> I always appreciate getting real-life feedback like this.  And, You Da Man, Quads when it comes to wood - but here's what I get when I run those numbers.  1 cord of 20% red oak is approximately 3350 lbs (www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html).  1/6 of that is 558, which is way less than the 1362 "book" max, and also way less than a car full of normal size people.  Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...


I think what quads correctly describes depends a lot on where the wood is loaded.  If it is loaded behind the rear seat the weight sits behind the back axle...and the leverage actually increases the load on that axle (more than what the wood weighs).  If the wood were placed in the center of the van it wouldn't squat as hard and the tires would carry the load more evenly.

I always try to load as much as I can towards the front of the bed of my truck...sure it is harder...but the truck handles much better.

Remember, you have to include your weight in the GVW calculations too, so 558 lbs is only part of the weight your van is carrying.


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## lukem

mecreature said:
			
		

> GVWR is a suggestion... Made for warranties and such..



Couldn't agree more...GVWR is a substitution for common sense.


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## Intheswamp

lukem said:
			
		

> mecreature said:
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> GVWR is a suggestion... Made for warranties and such..
> 
> 
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> 
> Couldn't agree more...GVWR is a substitution for common sense.
Click to expand...

Hmm, a suggestion?  You might want to ask a DOT officer about that.

Ed


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## lukem

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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> mecreature said:
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> GVWR is a suggestion... Made for warranties and such..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't agree more...GVWR is a substitution for common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm, a suggestion?  You might want to ask a DOT officer about that.
> 
> Ed
Click to expand...


I'm sure he/she would disagree and write me up  And any wrecks they've seen because of overloads also were caused by an astonishing lack of common sense.


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## quads

lukem said:
			
		

> willworkforwood said:
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> quads said:
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> 
> I have sold wood to customers that hauled it away in Dodge Caravans many times.  1/6th of a cord of seasoned oak is about the limit (1/2 face cord).  While they will actually hold more than that, possibly twice as much if stacked in carefully, I strongly discourage my customers from it.  Even with only 1/6th of a cord the rear suspension is squatting pretty seriously and the car-type tires are starting to look overloaded.  More than that is just plain scary, with bottomed out springs and squashed tires.....
> 
> 
> 
> I always appreciate getting real-life feedback like this.  And, You Da Man, Quads when it comes to wood - but here's what I get when I run those numbers.  1 cord of 20% red oak is approximately 3350 lbs (www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html).  1/6 of that is 558, which is way less than the 1362 "book" max, and also way less than a car full of normal size people.  Am I missing something here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what quads correctly describes depends a lot on where the wood is loaded.  If it is loaded behind the rear seat the weight sits behind the back axle...and the leverage actually increases the load on that axle (more than what the wood weighs).  If the wood were placed in the center of the van it wouldn't squat as hard and the tires would carry the load more evenly.
> 
> I always try to load as much as I can towards the front of the bed of my truck...sure it is harder...but the truck handles much better.
> 
> Remember, you have to include your weight in the GVW calculations too, so 558 lbs is only part of the weight your van is carrying.
Click to expand...

That's right.   I don't know how much the oak weighs, but when you load it in a minivan you are not getting the weight evenly distributed between the front and rear axles.  Most, if not all, of the weight of the wood is over or behind the rear wheels.  That's a lot of weight in a vehicle that is more car than truck.  Think of it as loading that much firewood in the trunk of a sedan.  Not much difference....


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## KarlP

Intheswamp said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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> mecreature said:
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> 
> 
> 
> GVWR is a suggestion... Made for warranties and such...
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't agree more...GVWR is a substitution for common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm, a suggestion?  You might want to ask a DOT officer about that.
Click to expand...


He'll tell you your GVWR is what you paid for on your registration and the sticker on the van is for warranties.  

A couple states make you follow the tire mfg's weight rating or the axle mfg's weight rating.  None make you follow the vehicle mfg's weight rating.  Its all based on what you pay to register.  I think my Tacoma is registered for 8800lbs.  I'm not worried about exceeding that.  LoL


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## willworkforwood

quads said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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> willworkforwood said:
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> quads said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have sold wood to customers that hauled it away in Dodge Caravans many times.  1/6th of a cord of seasoned oak is about the limit (1/2 face cord).  While they will actually hold more than that, possibly twice as much if stacked in carefully, I strongly discourage my customers from it.  Even with only 1/6th of a cord the rear suspension is squatting pretty seriously and the car-type tires are starting to look overloaded.  More than that is just plain scary, with bottomed out springs and squashed tires.....
> 
> 
> 
> I always appreciate getting real-life feedback like this.  And, You Da Man, Quads when it comes to wood - but here's what I get when I run those numbers.  1 cord of 20% red oak is approximately 3350 lbs (www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html).  1/6 of that is 558, which is way less than the 1362 "book" max, and also way less than a car full of normal size people.  Am I missing something here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what quads correctly describes depends a lot on where the wood is loaded.  If it is loaded behind the rear seat the weight sits behind the back axle...and the leverage actually increases the load on that axle (more than what the wood weighs).  If the wood were placed in the center of the van it wouldn't squat as hard and the tires would carry the load more evenly.
> 
> I always try to load as much as I can towards the front of the bed of my truck...sure it is harder...but the truck handles much better.
> 
> Remember, you have to include your weight in the GVW calculations too, so 558 lbs is only part of the weight your van is carrying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's right.   I don't know how much the oak weighs, but when you load it in a minivan you are not getting the weight evenly distributed between the front and rear axles.  Most, if not all, of the weight of the wood is over or behind the rear wheels.  That's a lot of weight in a vehicle that is more car than truck.  Think of it as loading that much firewood in the trunk of a sedan.  Not much difference....
Click to expand...

I wasn't understanding that your loading is concentrated into one section of the van.  As I wrote in my OP, I'll be removing all rear seats, in order to get a good, even distribution of weight throughout the entire vehicle (including some on the front passenger floor).  I'll be lining the floor with thin plywood, and will also use 2x4 stops to keep the stuff (mainly rounds) from moving.  And for the folks suggesting a trailer - thanks, but it's just not in the budget.  Based on the other posts, 1360 + seat weight is what I'm going to use.  I know the van already had at least that much of a load more than once, and I don't expect it will cause a problem.  Thanks for the feedback!


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## Jutt77

Depends on how far you are driving, how fast you will be driving, hills or no hills, etc.  A few miles of flat roads at 35 mph?  Load her down.  20 miles of highway plus steep mtn passes?  Maybe not...


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## quads

willworkforwood said:
			
		

> I wasn't understanding that your loading is concentrated into one section of the van.  As I wrote in my OP, I'll be removing all rear seats, in order to get a good, even distribution of weight throughout the entire vehicle (including some on the front passenger floor).  I'll be lining the floor with thin plywood, and will also use 2x4 stops to keep the stuff (mainly rounds) from moving.  And for the folks suggesting a trailer - thanks, but it's just not in the budget.  Based on the other posts, 1360 + seat weight is what I'm going to use.  I know the van already had at least that much of a load more than once, and I don't expect it will cause a problem.  Thanks for the feedback!


By all means, give it a shot!  Just be careful.  Sometimes two trips with lighter loads can save more time (and headaches) than one big load.


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## Ubookz

M :lol: y Geo Metro mini-mini van. The Jeep Cherokee and trailer are sitting not insured at the moment.It was a 10 minute haul on back roads.Sometimes you have to use what you have and not miss out on getting the wood


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## SolarAndWood

Ubookz said:
			
		

> M :lol: y Geo Metro mini-mini van.



Now that is a well balanced load.  Is that Oak?


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## Intheswamp

quads said:
			
		

> willworkforwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't understanding that your loading is concentrated into one section of the van.  As I wrote in my OP, I'll be removing all rear seats, in order to get a good, even distribution of weight throughout the entire vehicle (including some on the front passenger floor).  I'll be lining the floor with thin plywood, and will also use 2x4 stops to keep the stuff (mainly rounds) from moving.  And for the folks suggesting a trailer - thanks, but it's just not in the budget.  Based on the other posts, 1360 + seat weight is what I'm going to use.  I know the van already had at least that much of a load more than once, and I don't expect it will cause a problem.  Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> 
> 
> By all means, give it a shot!  Just be careful.  Sometimes two trips with lighter loads can save more time (and headaches) than one big load.
Click to expand...

Ditto on the being careful part.  Give it a test run after you get some loaded....just "around the block" will give you a sense of how it will handle, corner, curve, stop, etc.,.  If it feels good, then go back and add some more wood to it...take it for a test drive again.  Rinse, repeat.  Just be sure to stop loading wood *before* it starts feeling squirrely.  I would think you could haul 1/4+ cord inside of it if spread out evenly.  Check your tire's air pressure, engine fluid levels, etc.,.

Best wishes,
Ed


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## DanCorcoran

I believe GVWR is the max load that the vehicle is designed to carry SAFELY.  This means that you should be able to drive it at 65mph for several hours, up hill and down, without putting dangerous stress on the suspension, tires, and (especially) the brakes.  If your properly maintained vehicle breaks while hauling within the GVWR, you should have a legitimate warranty claim (if you are still in warranty).

The fact that you can haul a lot more weight, for short distances, at low speed, out of warranty parameters, is another kettle of fish.


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## Bspring

I will just say I have a lot of experience with overloaded vehicles and I think you will be fine with what you are trying to do. While loading it stop every once in a while and check the suspension. When the suspension bumpers get with in 1/2 an inch of the frame you need to stop unless you have a very short trip.


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## hemlock

A minivan only has "P" rated tires.  Keep that in mind.  Also keep in mind that GVRW is not a suggestion - it is a legal issue.  You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.  It could be one bloody expensive load of "free" wood if the stars align just right.


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## mecreature

same as any other issue discussed on the internets... wide range in point of view.

Just use common sense. You are the one driving the van. 

Some people have no trouble traveling over loaded, some way overloaded. 
Other follow the book to extreme.

I have a ton of travel trailer buddies, some will not tow over limits... period.. the truck or the travel trailer.
Others will have a set of helper springs installed and now thinks he is virtually unlimited on what he can tow.

everybody seems to get there safe, Thank God.


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## KarlP

hemlock said:
			
		

> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.



That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.



			
				hemlock said:
			
		

> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.



Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?


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## hemlock

KarlP said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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> 
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> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
> 
> 
> 
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> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
> 
> 
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> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
Click to expand...


That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Commercial vs personal insurance is different.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident/snap the axle and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy is all I'm saying - they vary. 

 The following is from the governement of British Columbia.  They have "state" insurance, but private insurers make their own policy.

_"...However, if the overweight problem contributed to the accident you could be found partially or totally responsible for the accident.  This could result in an increase to your future premiums.  If your vehicle's optional coverage has been purchased from a private insurer, you should check to find out the policies of that insurer in terms of coverage...."_

From the state of Conneticut - 

_...Manslaughter. Manslaughter in the first or second degree may be brought against the owner or operator of an overweight truck if the weight of the truck is the proximate cause of a motor vehicle accident that results in death. The law allows for a charge of first-degree manslaughter when anyone â€œunder circumstances evincing an extreme indifference to human life, (a person) recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another personâ€ (C. G. S. Â§ 53a-55). 

David Wilcox, the owner of American Crushing and Recycling, was charged with first-degree manslaughter after the infamous Avon Mountain crash. Four people were killed on July 29, 2005 after one of his truck's brakes failed while descending Avon Mountain. Wilcox was charged with first-degree manslaughter because, according to the prosecution's arrest affidavit, his failure to correct brake defects of which he was aware created a grave risk of death for the traveling public. This is comparable to a situation in which an owner or operator knows that a truck is significantly overweight, but still chooses to drive the vehicle. First-degree manslaughter is a Class B felony punishable by a term of imprisonment up to 20 years, a fine up to $ 15,000, or both (CGS Â§ 53a-55). 

The owner or operator of an overweight truck could also be charged with manslaughter in the second degree (CGS Â§ 53a-56)). Under the statute, a person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when he recklessly causes the death of another person. The Penal Code defines the term â€œrecklesslyâ€ as the â€œconscious disregard (of) a substantial and unjustifiable risk. . . of such nature and degree that disregarding it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situationâ€ (CGS Â§ 53a-3(13)). Second-degree is a Class C felony punishable by a term of imprisonment of up to 10 years, a fine up to $ 10,000, or both. 

In the case of a fatality stemming from the operation of an overweight truck, the decision to prosecute and ultimate disposition of a case will depend on whether the reasonable person in the owner or operator's situation was aware or should have been aware of the degree of danger the vehicle's weight posed... _

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but you should not give the impression that running overweight with inadequate equipment is without consequence - it is, and it can potentially be severe.  Private insurance policies can be very specific, especially commercial - they can even specify what you can carry.  We all know that our F-150s' can carry more than the actual specs dictate, but depending upon your policy, you are taking a risk.  If overweight is determined to be the cause of an accident, your carrier _can_ discharge their responsibilities.


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## lukem

hemlock said:
			
		

> KarlP said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy.
Click to expand...


Never had a yard of gravel on my ranger, but once had 2 yards of soil.  It was a little on the heavy side....Drove fine unless I wanted to stop, go, or turn...but the P tires held up fine.


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## hemlock

lukem said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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> KarlP said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never had a yard of gravel on my ranger, but once had 2 yards of soil.  It was a little on the heavy side....Drove fine unless I wanted to stop, go, or turn...but the P tires held up fine.
Click to expand...


I've had heavy loads on my "P" tires as well.  The thing about them is that they hold up until they don't.


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## hemlock

hemlock said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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> hemlock said:
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> KarlP said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never had a yard of gravel on my ranger, but once had 2 yards of soil.  It was a little on the heavy side....Drove fine unless I wanted to stop, go, or turn...but the P tires held up fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've had heavy loads on my "P" tires as well.  The thing about them is that they hold up until they don't.  Occasional use you're probably fine.  If you consistently load it up, some 6 or 8 ply may be a good investment.
Click to expand...


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## lukem

The ranger is long gone, but she is missed.


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## hemlock

lukem said:
			
		

> The ranger is long gone, but she is missed.



They are great little trucks.


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## mecreature

lukem said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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> KarlP said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hemlock said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never had a yard of gravel on my ranger, but once had 2 yards of soil.  It was a little on the heavy side....Drove fine unless I wanted to stop, go, or turn...but the P tires held up fine.
Click to expand...


I had 2 yards of mulch in a 94 Toyota 4wd. it sank low.  It was a beefy little truck. only drove it that loaded for 3 miles or so.

I have Load Range E Michelin LTX MS on my 1500 chevy.
Its very much overkill for normal use but the rear end don't seem to squirm as much when pulling the travel trailer on rolling, winding roads


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## hemlock

mecreature said:
			
		

> lukem said:
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> KarlP said:
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> hemlock said:
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> A minivan only has "P" rated tires.
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> That will support way more weight than the GVWR stamped on the door if you air them up.  You can read the max load they will support at the max pressure right on the tire.
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> hemlock said:
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> You might as well drive with no insurance if you are exceeding the legal/registered weight of the vehicle.  That is what I always tell people anyways.
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> Well then why are you are you spreading misinformation?
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> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  Put one yard of gravel in your Ranger with "P" tires and cause an accident and let me know what happens (thats if you get out of the yard).  Insurance does not cover stupidity.  Check your policy.
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> Never had a yard of gravel on my ranger, but once had 2 yards of soil.  It was a little on the heavy side....Drove fine unless I wanted to stop, go, or turn...but the P tires held up fine.
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> I had 2 yards of mulch in a 94 Toyota 4wd. it sank low.  It was a beefy little truck. only drove it that loaded for 3 miles or so.
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> I have Load Range E Michelin LTX MS on my 1500 chevy.
> Its very much overkill for normal use but the rear end don't seem to squirm as much when pulling the travel trailer on rolling, winding roads
Click to expand...


I had 6 ply ("C" range I think) on my F-150.  Makes for a bumpy ride sometimes, but it did seem to handle the heavier loads much better.  Not as much "drag" or "squirm" as you say.  Load rated tires are a good investment for anyone who "works" their truck.


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## KarlP

hemlock said:
			
		

> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......



And its pretty easy to find 17" P rated tires for a Grand Caravan that are rated to support over 1874lbs each.  That is WAY more more than GVWR on "P" rated tires, so what is the need for load range E tires to haul a little firewood?



> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  ... Insurance does not cover stupidity.



If insurance companies don't cover stupidity then what is the point of insurance?  More than half of crashes are a result of stupidity.  Do you believe they do not cover someone texting while driving, driving drunk, driving asleep, etc?  



> _"...However, if the overweight problem contributed to the accident you could be found partially or totally responsible for the accident.  This could result in an increase to your future premiums.  If your vehicle's optional coverage has been purchased from a private insurer, you should check to find out the policies of that insurer in terms of coverage...."_



In English - "If the accident is your fault, you can be found responsible for the "accident".  (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.)  If you are responsible for a crash you will probably pay more for insurance for several years. (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.) If you didn't buy comprehensive coverage and you are responsible for the accident, your insurer won't cover the damage to your vehicle. (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.)"  Read your policy.  Encourage others to do the same.  Stop telling them their insurance provider will deny coverage when you have no knowledge of their insurance policy (and I suspect your own either).



> you should not give the impression that running overweight with inadequate equipment is without consequence - it is, and it can potentially be severe.



Crashing? Maybe.  Having a strut punch through their mount? Maybe.  "P" tires failing within the load they are rated to carry?  Nope.  Not being covered by your insurance company?  Nope.



> If overweight is determined to be the cause of an accident, your carrier _can_ discharge their responsibilities.



Please cite at least one non-commercial insurance policy that will not cover your liability if being overweight by less than a ton over your door sticker.  You only have to find one and I'll happily learn and update all the threads I've ever posted on the subject to say Canadian insurance might not be valid if your are overweight.  In the mean time, I stand by my position that you are spreading misinformation.


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## hemlock

KarlP said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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> That's why I said _keep in mind _the tires are "P" rated.  They are not meant for heavy loads - thats kind of why they don't put them on 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.......
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> And its pretty easy to find 17" P rated tires for a Grand Caravan that are rated to support over 1874lbs each.  That is WAY far more more than GVWR on "P" rated tires, so what is the need for load range E tires to haul a little firewood?
> 
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> And yes - if you are running overloaded, your insurance has a very solid case for walking away from you depending on the circumstances.  ... Insurance does not cover stupidity.
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> Click to expand...
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> If insurance companies don't cover stupidity then what is the point of insurance?  More than half of crashes are a result of stupidity.  Do you believe they do not cover someone texting while driving, driving drunk, driving asleep, etc?
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> 
> _"...However, if the overweight problem contributed to the accident you could be found partially or totally responsible for the accident.  This could result in an increase to your future premiums.  If your vehicle's optional coverage has been purchased from a private insurer, you should check to find out the policies of that insurer in terms of coverage...."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In English - "If the accident is your fault, you can be found responsible for the "accident".  (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.)  If you are responsible for a crash you will probably pay more for insurance for several years. (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.) If you didn't buy comprehensive coverage and you are responsible for the accident, your insurer won't cover the damage to your vehicle. (Being under/overweight doesn't change that.)"  Read your policy.  Encourage others to do the same.  Stop telling them their insurance provider will deny coverage when you have no knowledge of their insurance policy (and I suspect your own either).
> 
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> you should not give the impression that running overweight with inadequate equipment is without consequence - it is, and it can potentially be severe.
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> Click to expand...
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> Crashing? Maybe.  Having a strut punch through their mount? Maybe.  "P" tires failing within the load they are rated to carry?  Nope.  Not being covered by your insurance company?  Nope.
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> If overweight is determined to be the cause of an accident, your carrier _can_ discharge their responsibilities.
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> Please cite at least one non-commercial insurance policy that will not cover your liability if being overweight by less than a ton over your door sticker.  You only have to find one and I'll happily learn and update all the threads I've ever posted on the subject to say Canadian insurance might not be valid if your are overweight.  In the mean time, I stand by my position that you are spreading misinformation.
Click to expand...


Regarding the whole Dodge Caravan thing, you are correct.  Little harm done.
As far as the rest - you're changing your story a bit.  You now admit crashing with an overweight vehicle may come with ramifications (it can), and giving stipulations (now it's less than a ton).  My one point was to check your policy - I did not say "will certainly deny you coverage",  I said it may - there are dozens upon dozens of different policies out there.  My second point was that being overloaded can be dangerous (it can).  Relax a little buddy.  
If you put 3/4 cord of wood in a half ton and kill somebody in an accident, and the cause is determined to be the weight of the vehicle - you can bet you've not heard the end of it. If you think otherwise, well..... not my problem.
Don't tell people there's nothing wrong with operating an overweight vehicle - that's bad advice.


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## KarlP

hemlock said:
			
		

> As far as the rest - you're changing your story a bit.  You now admit crashing with an overweight vehicle may come with ramifications (it can)



No.  I admitted crashing a vehicle may come with ramifications.  I never denied that.  If you drive a brand new completely stock empty vehicle down the road and kill somebody - you can bet you've not heard the end of it.

I added the non-commercial and a ton clauses only because this thread is discussing hauling wood in a minivan and I don't want to get off track.  In the past discussions I've had people bring up criminal cases against a commercial trucking company where an improperly licensed driver was sent out 20(?) tons overweight in a truck with known faulty brakes and the company renewed their expired insurance AFTER the crash.  That insurance company got out of paying because the policy was not in effect at the time of the crash, not because they were overweight.  There were criminal charges brought against the truck company for gross negligence, not violation of weight laws.  A 1/4 cord more firewood more than Dodge suggests in a properly insured minivan is a completely different situation.

Whatever.  I'm done.  I suggest everyone understand their insurance policy and not crash.


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## hemlock

KarlP said:
			
		

> hemlock said:
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> Whatever.  I'm done.  I suggest everyone understand their insurance policy and not crash.
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> Sounds good.
> I'll conced that in the context of the OP there is no trouble (and that I took it a bit off topic - sorry about that).  I was speaking in broader terms of overweight vehicles - especially when you get into 3/4 and 1 ton territory, and the lines between commerial and personal can get blurred with regards to weights, insurance, etc.....
Click to expand...


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## nate379

All depends on what.  For a truck or trailer they are quite cheap.



			
				bpirger said:
			
		

> Just remember that a broken spring is considerably more expensive to replace than many gallons of heating oil.....so don't shoot yourself in the foot....and take it very easy when loading up.
> 
> I'd look into the trailer idea....same thing applies there though as well.


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