# Dimmable LED bulb flicker



## begreen (Jun 27, 2016)

I just switched from dimmable CFL bulbs to 60w Feit LEDs in our dining room. The CFLs dimmed nicely but the new LEDs flicker even though according to the package they are dimmable and are on an approved, modern dimmer. 

What are other folks finding with LED bulbs on a dimmer?


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 27, 2016)

Some of the LED manufacturers have dimmer compatibility lists, showing dimmers they've tested their bulbs with. Some of the dimmer manufacturers also have lists of bulbs they've tested. Here's Lutron, for example:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service...al/Design-SelectionTools/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx

I noticed a while back CNET has been reviewing some LED's, including dimmer performance. This is a lot easier to read than the manufacturer lists, but they've only tested a handful of bulbs and dimmers:
http://www.cnet.com/topics/smart-home/best-smart-home-devices/best-led-light-bulbs/

I'd also suggest that if you find a combo you like well, write a review for both the bulb and the dimmer referencing each to help other users find working combos.

One more note - I have a Lutron Skylark (I think) dimmer that came with a lengthy instruction sheet including instructions for setting up the dimming range. It worked fine out of the box with incandescents, but I would not be surprised if going through the setup could help some LED's dim more effectively.

You'd probably have to pull the faceplate off to find the model number and look up instructions online, if they exist for a given model. The instructions looked a bit tedious. Fair warning.


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2016)

Hmmm, in my book dimmable means dimmable. Not with a boatload of caveats and tweaks. Thanks for the suggestions. I did find our dimmer on the Feit website so now I am more perplexed.


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## sportbikerider78 (Jun 27, 2016)

I'm not sure what to tell you.  I have had great experiences with the Luxtron switches that say they are for use with LED bulbs.


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 27, 2016)

Unfortunately, without a standard for either bulb dimming performance or dimmer output, dimmable means caveats and tweaks. From I've read, many bulb + dimmer combos do give satisfactory performance, but some bulbs that work on one dimmer end up not working well on others, as not only are there differences in how different LED lamps handle dimmed power signals, but there are some differences in how dimmers function.


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2016)

It's a Lutron Ariadni dimmer approved for the following loads:


Incandescent / Halogen

Dimmable Compact Fluorescent (CFL)

Dimmable Light Emitting Diodes (LED)

Hi-lume® LED 2-wire Forward Phase


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## 7acres (Jun 27, 2016)

I just finished wiring my home office with LEDs all on matching Leviton dimmers. They don't flicker but they hum. I'm disappointed.


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 27, 2016)

Do you have other brands of LED's you can try on the same circuit? Ideally all of the same types - I've heard of some people having issues mixing types on a dimmer.

Also, there's a suggestion in the troubleshooting section of page 2, here:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/26/26384e5c-e90d-4d88-aaa9-75e12b896e5c.pdf


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## begreen (Jun 27, 2016)

In our case there's just two 9w LED bulbs on the circuit. Both from the same 4pak package.


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## jebatty (Jun 29, 2016)

After replacing almost all CFL and tungsten incandescent bulbs in our house with LEDs from a mix of brand names, my experience on dimming, lack of flicker and lack of buzzing has been very good. One of 4 identical LEDs in the garage buzzes slightly. No noticeable buzz on any others. Flicker is evident on a couple of LEDs as they are dimmed to about half way or more. All in all, very satisfied with all the LEDs and pleased with the results.


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## Babaganoosh (Jun 29, 2016)

I had a flicker with the dimmer that was installed in the house before I bought it, swapped it with a led compatible dimmer and no more problems. Also dimmed better too. Basically lower before cutting out.


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## LowbanksArcher (Jun 29, 2016)

I've had my share of headaches with this recently. We built add addition on our house and I wired in 8 LED 9w pot lights. Same circuit. 4 on one dimmer, and 4 on another. Since i was experimenting with various types of light (5000k, 3000k, 2700k), i purchased a few different options to try. All compatible with the dimmers. Even though they were on separate switches, having different brands of bulbs on at the same time would cause one bank to flicker. It was awful. Even with one bank with bulbs removed entirely, the single bank of 4 would flicker intermittently. Once changing all 8 to the same brand/model (decided on 2700k), it improved, but would still get the odd flicker at certain dimness settings. Lastly, I returned both dimmer switches and spent a little more on another brand. The new dimmers solved the problem entirely.
Since LED's run such low wattage, dimming them makes them extremely vulnerable to any variation in current. Mine will still twitch when certain appliances turn on (microwave, water pump, etc)


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## begreen (Jun 29, 2016)

This kind of burns me because I just replaced the previous dimmer with the more expensive Lutron model a couple years ago. 

Can folks start listing the make and model of dimmers and the bulb brand and model they have had success or failures with?

Right now I have a failure situation with 2 Feit dimmable LED bulbs on a Lutron Adriana dimmer.


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 29, 2016)

To be honest, I've got concerns about the quality of the Feit 9W bulbs Costco sells. Checking their website, the reviews are mostly bad, based on failure rates and dimming flicker.

My limited experience with them is fine, but I don't have them on dimmers. Their color rendering is actually significantly better than most of their competitors, but with comparable efficiency, price, and light distribution. Perhaps Feit needs to stop claiming they're dimmable.


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## begreen (Jun 29, 2016)

Yes, I've had good luck with Feits in other locations and undimmed the bulb is fine. I can move these bulbs to another location. What bulb mfg/model are more universally working for people that have them on a dimmer?


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## LowbanksArcher (Jun 29, 2016)

begreen said:


> This kind of burns me because I just replaced the previous dimmer with the more expensive Lutron model a couple years ago.
> 
> Can folks start listing the make and model of dimmers and the bulb brand and model they have had success or failures with?
> 
> Right now I have a failure situation with 2 Feit dimmable LED bulbs on a Lutron Adriana dimmer.


This was the winning combination for me.


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## iron (Jul 11, 2016)

i have all new lutron dimmer switches, rated for LED. various LED bulbs that are dimmable. all of them buzz/flicker to some degree. it's thoroughly annoying. only at the brightest setting do they quiet down. 

worst is in my island pendant lights - you cannot find an LED bulb (at least i haven't) that doesn't shade the upper part of the light. so, half the pendant is dark; half is light. with old school bulbs, there is a nice warm glow throughout. 

LED lights = not ready for prime time in terms of replacing the incandescents.


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## jebatty (Jul 12, 2016)

Likely not too helpful on solving dimmer problems experienced by some, but all of my dimmers are many years old and dimmed incandescent bulbs which I switched out for LEDs. I don't know how the dimmer circuitry has changed over the years and I expect it has become more "electronic." Might the flicker be caused by the wave form of the AC leaving the dimmer and conflict with the AD/DC circuit in the LEDs? Clearly, not all dimmer/LEDs flicker. So, whose at fault? Dimmer mfrs, LED mfrs, both?


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## sportbikerider78 (Jul 12, 2016)

If you guys are replacing recessed lighting, I have had success with dimmers of all types,,,even the old school 'knob' type.  Perhaps consider the complete can retrofit.


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## begreen (Jul 12, 2016)

Good to know. The problem bulbs are on pendant lights with conventional bulb format.


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## sportbikerider78 (Jul 13, 2016)

iron said:


> i have all new lutron dimmer switches, rated for LED. various LED bulbs that are dimmable. all of them buzz/flicker to some degree. it's thoroughly annoying. only at the brightest setting do they quiet down.
> 
> worst is in my island pendant lights - you cannot find an LED bulb (at least i haven't) that doesn't shade the upper part of the light. so, half the pendant is dark; half is light. with old school bulbs, there is a nice warm glow throughout.
> 
> LED lights = not ready for prime time in terms of replacing the incandescents.



I was at HomeDepot yesterday and saw some that might work for you.  Very little in the way of a base.  

http://www.cnet.com/products/cree-4flow-led-2015/


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## begreen (Jul 13, 2016)

Looks like a step backward for dimming if that is an issue (go to 1:00 to see). If that is a requirement then there's another Cree tests better + 10 yr warranty. They say the Phillips tests best for dimming so I will try that. 
http://www.cnet.com/products/cree-60-watt-replacement-led-bulb/


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## Nelson (Sep 3, 2016)

I've replaced nearly all bulbs with LEDs in our home and my experience with dimming has been hit or miss. I've had good luck with the Commercial Electric retrofit cans in terms of dimming. I do have some Feit LEDs and have had issues with dimming. All switches are original to the house (pre 2013 for us). All in all, seem to have had good luck with CE retro-fits (we have a ton of can lights) and Cree bulbs.


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## Kobeman (Sep 4, 2016)

I know the feeling on the lutrons, I put in all maestro wireless not too many years ago , maybe 2, not the c/l version then, cant dim leds now, the circuitry in the maestro keeps enough power in the circit that the bulbs would glow when should be off, (fiet) , had to switch out the maestros for the c/l, I'm an electrician, but still alot of $, I called lutron and they said the main problem is theres really no standard established for dimmable leds yet.


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## jrems (Sep 12, 2016)

I tried some feit a couple years ago and was not happy with the performance or color. Loud hum when dimming. Cree was just ok. I had 4 failures within a year so no more of those. Very good luck with the Phillips, nice warm color, Dim nicely. I also have a handful of ikea leds. They have the nicest color very close to standard incandescent. Dim very nicely as well. I have not experienced any flickering with the ikea or Phillips.


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## begreen (Sep 12, 2016)

GTK, thanks


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## mwhitnee (Sep 22, 2016)

Just chiming in, does your dimmer have a little black dial (potentiometer?) if you take the dimmer face plate off?  You could try experimenting with the settings and see if that helps. Maybe just a bad connection at that exact setting. Worth trying- it's so easy to do.

sportbikerider mentioned this to me as my lights weren't dimming enough and actually shutting off without doing anything. They are perfect now.


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## mass_burner (Sep 24, 2016)

I just replaced 17 recessed lamps using 65w, with LED using 7w. In total, 4 switches, all newer dimmable, 3 pole. The only flicker is on the LR switch, four lights, and only at low levels. Once flickering, turning  it up a bit it stops it. The old table lamps used to dim, as this circuit contains the pantry with the microwave. So I believe this circuit is close to being overloaded, I need to test it. 

Long story short, consider the circuit, led seem to be more susceptible to this.


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## jcapler (Sep 24, 2016)

I have been in the process of updating our house lighting for the last couple of years. Changed out the entire first floor to LED cans everything is dimmable. The biggest issues you will have when trying to obtain the dim without flicker will be having your light circuit dedicated to just lighting. I have replaced all wiring for our lights and made sure to set the lower end of the dimmer to manufacture recommended settings. This is the only way I have ever been able to make sure that the flicker has disappeared (10+ years as licensed electrician). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## begreen (Sep 24, 2016)

mass_burner said:


> Long story short, consider the circuit, led seem to be more susceptible to this.


Good suggestion, but this is definitely not the circuit. It's a lighting only circuit and the dimming problem happens when the DR lights are the only ones on. Total wattage load = 18w. This just started happening with the LED bulbs, not the dimmable CFLs they replaced.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2016)

2 things iv learned about LED bulbs recently is, some of them they get very hot,and all of them use more power than they are rated. THe 9 W led used 11 watts. To be fair i tested a 14 watt CFL and it clocked in at 18 watts!


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## begreen (Oct 23, 2016)

What bulbs tested hot for you?


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## Corey (Oct 24, 2016)

iron said:


> ...
> 
> worst is in my island pendant lights - you cannot find an LED bulb (at least i haven't) that doesn't shade the upper part of the light. so, half the pendant is dark; half is light. with old school bulbs, there is a nice warm glow throughout. ...



http://www.ebay.com/itm/E12-E26-C35...hash=item43f53d8486:m:mumclybk2KHae76VDV1D_Ew

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E26-Base-A1...hash=item43f6e2d675:m:m0nHklPM_B56ynxB2lHqbHw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Vintage...hash=item23740fe781:m:m5ptSnhXM3Fm4jQ7AbTgExg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E12-E26-110...hash=item5d6312115a:m:mkCYVNVLin3CJlvxE2ZBBKw

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6W-8W-10W-S...hash=item280524869e:m:mL458GLzhj1VcrAzjl014ew

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5W-Edison...144540?hash=item3d1d09289c:g:njUAAOSwzJ5XXmbP

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110V-LED-E2...hash=item3d110fbe02:m:m0wVUYGQ33zeYkWJW63BT-Q

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E12-E26-C35...hash=item43f53d8486:m:mumclybk2KHae76VDV1D_Ew

... etc.  But the key seems to be searching for 'led filament'.


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## blades (Oct 24, 2016)

Seems to be a problem with leds in general, not just the dimmable ones.   I am going to go with stacked tolerances and floating voltage variances on the lines not to be confused with internal wiring/ voltages but supply side.  Leds like any solid state device are a bit finicky when comes to requiring a stable voltage, and for most areas you really do not want to see a "O"scope picture of the hash on the lines.


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## begreen (Oct 25, 2016)

iron said:


> worst is in my island pendant lights - you cannot find an LED bulb (at least i haven't) that doesn't shade the upper part of the light. so, half the pendant is dark; half is light. with old school bulbs, there is a nice warm glow throughout.


This is a standard LED bulb in our kitchen pendant lamp. There's a slight shadow but no one has noticed.


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## sportbikerider78 (Oct 25, 2016)

They sell those new (they have been out for at least a year) style filament looking bulbs at Home Depot.  Not too bad of a price if you have a fixture that warrants that look.  I think they're cool looking.  I thought about putting some of them in my new lampost lights on my driveway.


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## begreen (Oct 25, 2016)

Those I've seen are mostly for ambience and don't put out a lot of light.


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 26, 2016)

I've seen a range of filament lights. Some are supposedly capable of putting out a regular 800 lumens. Others are intended more as decorative lighting.

They don't inherently solve the light distribution issue. You can get a sense from how the filaments are arrayed what the light distribution of a particular bulb will be - imagine a donut of light surrounding each filament, and all the filaments together defining the coverage. Having some angle to the filaments is important. The reduced or absent heat sink (they're gas filled in order to convect heat to the glass surface) reduces blocked light somewhat, but the traditional way that incandescents used to get uniform light distribution was the same method LED's usually use: diffuse the light at the largest radius possible, such as by frosting the glass or using a translucent plastic.

Of the bulbs I've tried, the weird looking Philips Slimstyle surprisingly seems to have the best light distribution, because they lined the LED's along the edge of the outline, pointing outward at the diffuser, but if I recall, it's reported to dim poorly. The $2.50 Philips bulb also looks pretty good, but is labeled as not dimmable.


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## begreen (Nov 8, 2016)

I finally got into Seattle and a Home Depot. Picked up a pair of Philips dimmable LEDs for $3.97. They work great. No need to change the dimmer. We get the full dimming range and at low levels the light is very warm, just like an incandescent bulb would behave. FEITs claim of dimmability is suspect here.


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 9, 2016)

Those must be the ones they market as "warm glow" bulbs? They're marketed specifically for their dimming ability, so I'm glad to hear Philips didn't screw them up.


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## begreen (Nov 9, 2016)

Yes, they are the Philips warm glow bulbs.


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## woodgeek (Nov 10, 2016)

IF they are like the L-prize bulbs, they have separate small red tinted LEDs that get turned on at low dimming states to 'warm up' the color.


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## begreen (Nov 11, 2016)

Not sure, the effect is seamless. Also they've extended the warranty on these bulbs to 10 yrs.


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 11, 2016)

I suspect they do have either some red or an amber LEDs in them, but that it stays on continuously, so that as the white light is dimmed, the warm LED makes up an increasing portion of the total output.


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