# Another lame Winter



## Stax (Jan 8, 2013)

Unbelievable.  If this isn't climate change, I don't know what is.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 8, 2013)

Change is a good thing.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 8, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Change is a good thing.


 
Especially when its in my pocket


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## pen (Jan 8, 2013)

Can't speak of this being evidence of climate change, but it's certainly warmer than I like, though colder than last winter by a little.

I complained in another thread that I couldn't ice fish last year, and this year has been the same. That's a first in my lifetime. However, today my father was able to take my boy ice fishing for a bit, but I couldn't take advantage because of work. Ice became safe Sunday night into Monday for a local lake. With the weather though, the ice he was on today won't be trustworthy by the end of the day tomorrow.

Ugh, back to muddy dirt roads, muddy dog, sad me 

Has been easy on the wood supply though!


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## fishingpol (Jan 8, 2013)

I bought a gas ice auger this past weekend. It'll probably remain in the box the way things are looking. Below freezing at night may keep the ice safe, but nearing 60and rain later this week makes it doubtful.

It was funny that 4 made me happy since we would have ice to fish on.


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## Stax (Jan 8, 2013)

60+ degree days in January is climate change.  Sorry bud.


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

PLEASE...talk about the Winter all you want, but _do not_ turn this thread into yet another endless discussion about climate change...at the very next hint of that here I'll vaporize this thread.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

Stax said:


> Unbelievable. If this isn't climate change, I don't know what is.
> View attachment 88602


Move north, cold with plenty of snow.


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## fishingpol (Jan 8, 2013)




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## Stax (Jan 8, 2013)

Fossil, no need to threaten.  As a contributing member of the site, I should be allowed to disagree with a moderator without receiving that type of response.  Nothing further.


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

Wasn't a "threat", nor was it directed at you, Stax, or any particular individual.  If Super Moderator pen or anyone else continued in that direction, I'd fire my phasers.  Nothing here to take personally.    Rick


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## Stax (Jan 8, 2013)

10/4.


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## granpajohn (Jan 8, 2013)

December snowcover extent...highest ever in the satellite record:






USA snowcover on New Year's Day....Most in 10 years:


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## jharkin (Jan 8, 2013)

Im with fossil... lets not go into this again.  the last  dozen threads on climate change just turned into endless circular arguments.  It gets ugly. Friends become enemies. Folks have their mind made up one way or the other and all the fighting doesn't solve a thing.


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## pen (Jan 8, 2013)

That certainly wasn't the direction I was intending to go.  My apologies

pen


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

pen said:


> That certainly wasn't the direction I was intending to go. My apologies.  pen


 
I know, buddy, just using your name to help me make my point.  A chat about the weather we're experiencing is a good, fun thing.  But we really, really don't need to talk ourselves back into the abyss of the whole global warming/climate change thing, where we've been so many times before...it only ever leads to the Ash Can.  Rick


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

15 years ago sucked, we were house bound for a week.
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/It-Was-15-Years-Ago-Today-186051392.html


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## tfdchief (Jan 8, 2013)

Meanwhile, back to the "lame winter".  Well, yes, but not as lame as last year here.  It is easy on the wood supply but since a lot of the reason I burn wood is for psychotherapy, I would just as soon it be colder so I can burn more, i. e. more therapy.


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

I remember that disaster quite well, zap.  I lived in Northern Virginia then (not affected, but certainly attentive/sympathetic).  Rick


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## schlot (Jan 8, 2013)

We've had a fairly typical winter here...except this week. Even got the x-country skiis out a few day ago. On the other hand last year was pathetic.


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## Freakingstang (Jan 8, 2013)

You people act like winter is over.... lol. At least it had better not be... I Just installed my liner tonight and hopefully will slide the insert in tomorrow.. just in time for good weather... i'll burn anyway!


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Meanwhile, back to the "lame winter". Well, yes, but not as lame as last year here. It is easy on the wood supply but since a lot of the reason I burn wood is for psychotherapy, I would just as soon it be colder so I can burn more, i. e. more therapy.


 
Oh, I wish my wife Marsha was still alive (for lots of reasons, of course, but right now to have fun with this post).  Marsha held a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and I just wish I could hear her reactions to a Fire Chief posting that he burns wood for psychotherapy.    Rick


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## Boog (Jan 8, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> You people act like winter is over.... lol. At least it had better not be... I Just installed my liner tonight and hopefully will slide the insert in tomorrow.. just in time for good weather... i'll burn anyway!


 
You just answered a PM i just sent you, I was wondering if you had that baby up and running yet!


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## BrotherBart (Jan 8, 2013)

zap said:


> 15 years ago sucked, we were house bound for a week.
> http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/It-Was-15-Years-Ago-Today-186051392.html


 
We got bombed Jan. 8 in 1996 zap. 29 inches and winds making eight foot drifts. 4,000 of us had received our "being downsized" notices just before the storm. I called in and told them I could "not do anything" from home  and I would take my chances on the next performance review. Put more wood in the stove, refreshed the candles and made another pot of coffee and breakfast on the stove.

It was over a week before I could get to the road. Over the next few days it added up to three feet.


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## tfdchief (Jan 8, 2013)

fossil said:


> Oh, I wish my wife Marsha was still alive (for lots of reasons, of course, but right now to have fun with this post). Marsha held a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and I just wish I could hear her reactions to a Fire Chief posting that he burns wood for psychotherapy.  Rick


Rick, I truly wish your wife was still here too.  I would gladly succumb to her psychoanalysis.  Glad I made you think of her and smile. Steve

Oh, but she would probably find me a hard case


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

fossil said:


> I remember that disaster quite well, zap. I lived in Northern Virginia then (not affected, but certainly attentive/sympathetic). Rick


I can't imagine what it would have been like living here during the ice storm, so many more trees.

In 98 we lived in a small town across from a park with some trees, the sounds that came from those trees once the ice built up I'll never forget.

The transformers blowing up on the poles lighting up the sky, the peeping tom who was caught across from our house ( I helped track him down, just call it a scanner catch) he ran through my neignbors backyard over a live downed power line (buried in the snow & ice) he saw me coming off the porch so he turned then tried to hide, the police found him so I left.

He was taunting the police so I decided to leave, he was asking for it.


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## Mrs. Krabappel (Jan 8, 2013)

still waiting for my snow day


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## fossil (Jan 8, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Rick, I truly wish your wife was still here too. I would gladly succumb to her psychoanalysis. Glad I made you think of her and smile. Steve
> 
> Oh, but she would probably find me a hard case


 
Eh, she seemed to do OK dealing with me.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> We got bombed Jan. 8 in 1996 zap. 29 inches and winds making eight foot drifts. 4,000 of us had received our "being downsized" notices just before the storm. I called in and told them I could "not do anything" from home  and I would take my chances on the next performance review. Put more wood in the stove, refreshed the candles and made another pot of coffee and breakfast on the stove.
> 
> It was over a week before I could get to the road.


That's a chit load of snow plus the winds. We live in the area that during the ice storm they lost power for 4 weeks, during the ice storm we lived in Massena, NY so we only lost power for 9 hours.

I was the only guy on the block that had a chainsaw (small homelite, bought so we could take down two small trees blocking the sun to the pool) but we used it on three or four good size branches that came down across the driveways,


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## tfdchief (Jan 8, 2013)

zap said:


> That's a chit load of snow plus the winds. We live in the area that during the ice storm they lost power for 4 weeks, during the ice storm we lived in Massena, NY so we only lost power for 9 hours.
> 
> I was the only guy on the block that had a chainsaw (small homelite, bought so we could take down two small trees blocking the sun to the pool) but we used it on three or four good size branches that came down across the driveways,


And then Zap found out what chainsaws were really good for


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## Stax (Jan 8, 2013)

MS Counseling Psychology here.  I burn wood for cheap heat.  I split and stack wood because it feels right.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> And then Zap found out what chainsaws were really good for


Near the end of the ice storm we were told via the radio station (they did a great job keeping power or having backup for the radio station for the length of the storm) to put any wood out near the road so they could pick it up later, my neighbor had a limb come down in his driveway so I went over..cut it up then put it by the road (thought I was doing good) until he came out and gave me chit, he said he planned on burning it that day (seasoned for a few hours) I tried to explain the wood was right there he could still have it but he kept bitching.

Fock U came out of my mouth.


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## tfdchief (Jan 8, 2013)

zap said:


> Near the end of the ice storm we were told via the radio station (they did a great job keeping power or having backup for the radio station for the length of the storm) to put any wood out near the road so they could pick it up later, my neighbor had a limb come down in his driveway so I went over..cut it up then put it by the road (thought I was doing good) until he came out and gave me chit, he said he planned on burning it that day (seasoned for a few hours) I tried to explain the wood was right there he could still have it but he kept bitching.
> 
> Fock U came out of my mouth.


Well, that was not a very good first lesson from a wood burner.  Shame on him.  Obviously you turned into a much better example of a wood burner


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## thewoodlands (Jan 8, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Well, that was not a very good first lesson from a wood burner. Shame on him. Obviously you turned into a much better example of a wood burner


His wife was warming up the gas grill to cook steaks for him, he came home early and gave her chit because when he saw the grill on, told her she was wasting gas_, she should've thrown the steaks at him._


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## tfdchief (Jan 8, 2013)

zap said:


> His wife was warming up the gas grill to cook steaks for him, he came home early and gave her chit because when he saw the grill on, told her she was wasting gas_, she should've thrown the steaks at him._


Auh, the guy is just a TOTAL ass.  Not just a poor example of a wood burner.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 8, 2013)

Super Lame winter here too. No snow. At least not more than a dusting or 2 that melted by mid-afternoon.  Makes working outside easier, but I am going through snow withdrawals.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 9, 2013)

About a foot of snow here . . . warmer temps forecast for today and tomorrow . . . I wouldn't mind a bit more snow, but I should be able to go snowmobiling this weekend.

Wait a minute . . . did Fossil say he has a phaser gun . . . geez . . . do all Moderators get issued phaser guns . . . if so, count me in! 

P.S. Please do not turn this thread into a pro- and con- phaser gun or disruptor debate . . . otherwise the Klingons will surely win.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 9, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Rick, I truly wish your wife was still here too. I would gladly succumb to her psychoanalysis. Glad I made you think of her and smile. Steve
> 
> Oh, but she would probably find me a hard case


 
All firefighters are a little bit "off their rockers" . . . fire chiefs are even more so.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 9, 2013)

Freakingstang said:


> You people act like winter is over.... lol. At least it had better not be... I Just installed my liner tonight and hopefully will slide the insert in tomorrow.. just in time for good weather... i'll burn anyway!


 
Agreed . . . I suspect this is just the "normal" January thaw . . . if folks think Winter is over and it's time to break out the shorts and Hawaiian shirts I think they may be in for a rude awakening in another week or so.


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## yooperdave (Jan 9, 2013)

Lame winter??? You bet! And loving it. Take advantage of the lack of snow and lack of colder temps while you can. It's nice being able to drive on a bare highway...


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## corey21 (Jan 9, 2013)

Yep in the 60's this week how boring.


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## jharkin (Jan 9, 2013)

Heading for 55F here on Saturday... 'll be heading up to Mt. Washington where they are expecting a balmy 45F.


Jake I'll see your disruptor's and raise you a full spread of photon torpedoes!


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## tfdchief (Jan 9, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> All firefighters are a little bit "off their rockers" . . . fire chiefs are even more so.


GUILTY


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 9, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> December snowcover extent...highest ever in the satellite record:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Sorry Grandpa John but don't believe everything the media tries to throw at you. That map is very, very wrong no matter where they got this information. One good reason I say that is because of where we live and the lack of snow. It might be the most in 10 years for some areas but not this whole area. I haven't even given thought to putting the snow blade on. The most snow we've had so far was on December 8 when we were buried in a whole 1.5" of snow! Any other snow we've received has been basically unmeasurable. Yet, according to that map we should have had up to 9.8" on the ground. Sorry, but the media simply loves to blow things out of proportion.


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## tfdchief (Jan 9, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Sorry Grandpa John but don't believe everything the media tries to throw at you. That map is very, very wrong no matter where they got this information. One good reason I say that is because of where we live and the lack of snow. It might be the most in 10 years for some areas but not this whole area. I haven't even given thought to putting the snow blade on. The most snow we've had so far was on December 8 when we were buried in a whole 1.5" of snow! Any other snow we've received has been basically unmeasurable. Yet, according to that map we should have had up to 9.8" on the ground. Sorry, but the media simply loves to blow things out of proportion.


Yep, same here. Map says 2 in.  We have nothing right now.  Had a little unmeasurable but it melted.


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## granpajohn (Jan 9, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> Yep, same here. Map says 2 in. We have nothing right now. Had a little unmeasurable but it melted.


Nothing like ground truth.
But according to this you should have had (at the time) 1.2" with a December total of 2.5". (It is for Lincoln IL I believe. Is that near you?)
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=ilx

I don't know where Dennis is located in MI.

Most of the places I seem to care about are pretty accurately depicted. The kids in East Texas had a white Christmas. Very rare for them.

NOAA (and Environment Canada) data are often wrong.

BTW, the Northern Hemisphere snow cover record for December is not North America. Most of the cold is on the other side of our hemisphere (makes sense). It is also straight from the NSIDC, not media released. Here is image of the pixels:





Huh....there does appear to be a couple blank spots right over Michigan. Could be true!


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## thewoodlands (Jan 9, 2013)

The map is right on for us in Northern NY. We have a cold front moving in tonight after being in the low 40's today, the wind is howling at the moment.


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## jharkin (Jan 10, 2013)

We do have a little bit of snow on the ground, but not for long.

Time to break out the grill


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## tfdchief (Jan 10, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> Nothing like ground truth.


 True.  And I will say flying to PA last week, I did not see anywhere on the ground that did not have at least patchy snow cover.  granpajohn, we are about an hour and half SE of Lincoln, on your satillite map, right at the edge of the snow cover. Of course that all melted yesterday with a high in the 50's.  For the date on the map, it was probably fairly accurate.  We probably did get 2.5 inches in December, just never had all of that on the ground at one time.  Here is a nice article from an area news paper and a IL state climatologist.  Says 2012 set a record for mean temp., and dry.  So last winter here was lame for sure!  Admit ably there is a lot of 12/13 Winter left......we'll see


http://www.news-gazette.com/news/weather/2013-01-09/how-hot-was-2012-hottest-ever.html


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## granpajohn (Jan 10, 2013)

tfdchief said:


> True. And I will say flying to PA last week, I did not see anywhere on the ground that did not have at least patchy snow cover. granpajohn, we are about an hour and half SE of Lincoln, on your satillite map, right at the edge of the snow cover. Of course that all melted yesterday with a high in the 50's. For the date on the map, it was probably fairly accurate. We probably did get 2.5 inches in December, just never had all of that on the ground at one time. Here is a nice article from an area news paper and a IL state climatologist. Says 2012 set a record for mean temp., and dry. So last winter here was lame for sure! Admit ably there is a lot of 12/13 Winter left......we'll see
> 
> 
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/weather/2013-01-09/how-hot-was-2012-hottest-ever.html


 
"Playoffs" does not equal "Superbowl Champs"...and...
"Unusually Extensive Snow Cover" does not equal "Great Winter"
But, we expect our team to win the SB every year; knowing that it can't happen.
But, playoffs is better than normal. The snowcover probably protected us from warmer temps for a while, but our luck may be about to run out. (Depending on your perspective, of course.)

That news-gazette link is an example of what Dennis was talking about. 1921 was/is the warmest year in Chicago records.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 10, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> Nothing like ground truth.
> But according to this you should have had (at the time) 1.2" with a December total of 2.5". (It is for Lincoln IL I believe. Is that near you?)
> http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=ilx
> 
> ...


 
We're between Lansing and Saginaw; closer to Saginaw. If you find the junction of US-127 and M-57, we're not far from there. You could say we do have some snow here right now but you have to look long and hard for it.

On the other hand, you say we should have had 1.2" with a December total of 2.5" but that is certainly not the case. But strangely, if one went, say 40 miles east they had snow. A friend lives about 60 miles east and at Christmas time they got 6" of snow. We got a dusting. A few days later they got 4" and we got another dusting. When he came for a visit, he could hardly believe the difference. "Where's your snow?" he asked.


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## granpajohn (Jan 10, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> . A friend... "Where's your snow?" he asked.


 
Well now you can show him that pixel map with the 2 blank spots right over your farm; scientifically proving that you have a "Backwoods Savage Snow Repellant Dome". Don't feel bad though; we have one in Annapolis too. However, I would think northerners would want such a thing. In fact, offer to sell shares in it.

Looking at the snow analysis for today, I see about half of MI is melted away, but West TX; (and I mean south of New Mexico), is supposed to have around 6 inches. (don't know if I believe it   http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ridge2/snow/index.php?site=dtx )
  Crazy. In fact, this IS a Lame Winter!


Well let's see here.....Saginaw seems to have reported 7.4" for all of December; depth never really exceeded 3" per the Saginaw station:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/getclimate.php?wfo=dtx

You're right.....Lame.


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## rideau (Jan 11, 2013)

zap said:


> 15 years ago sucked, we were house bound for a week.
> http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/It-Was-15-Years-Ago-Today-186051392.html


Was that the year schools in Westchester NY were closed essentially every day in January?The ice was unreal.

EDIT:  Sorry, I feel like an idiot.  How could I forget, even for a moment, that 98 was the cie storm.  We were without power for 28 days. 

I think the ice may have been Jan 97?


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## thewoodlands (Jan 11, 2013)

rideau said:


> Was that the year schools in Westchester NY were closed essentially every ay i January The ice was unreal.


Just a guess rideau, I think so. No rain here at the moment, 36 out.


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## rideau (Jan 11, 2013)

Drove through a lot of NYS yesterday...from the Thousand Islands to Lower Westchester.  Was amazed to see the grass showing through between the border and Syracuse.  Don't think I have ever seen that little snow in that area.  Was also shocked (continue to be shocked) by the water levels in the Mohawk.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 11, 2013)

rideau said:


> Drove through a lot of NYS yesterday...from the Thousand Islands to Lower Westchester. Was amazed to see the grass showing through between the border and Syracuse. Don't think I have ever seen that little snow in that area. Was also shocked (continue to be shocked) by the water levels in the Mohawk.


I think the St.Lawrence River is way down too, even if we have a chit load of snow the rest of the winter it won't make up for last winter & summer.


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## granpajohn (Jan 11, 2013)

zap said:


> I think the St.Lawrence River is way down too, even if we have a chit load of snow the rest of the winter it won't make up for last winter & summer.


I think the St. Lawrence flow is controlled. (Read the last paragraph):

http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/outflows/discharge_measurements/st._lawrence_river/

That is not to say precipitation has no effect. But still, I'm not so sure that the river level is a very good gauge of rainfall since 1960.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 11, 2013)

granpajohn said:


> I think the St. Lawrence flow is controlled. (Read the last paragraph):
> 
> http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/outflows/discharge_measurements/st._lawrence_river/
> 
> That is not to say precipitation has no effect. But still, I'm not so sure that the river level is a very good gauge of rainfall since 1960.


Sure is controlled, but you can't control what you don't have.


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## rideau (Jan 11, 2013)

And I know there has been concern about the continued navigatability of the St. Lawrence, I think in the area near Brockville, but I may be wrong about the location.  water levels have been vry low some recent years.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 12, 2013)

Another sign of Lame Winter. Those are daffodils coming up here in the Chicago area today!
Last year they bloomed on March 12'th. I'll never forget 'cause
It was the day my daughter was born.
Extra points to the first one with a correct wood ID on the mulch chips.


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## rideau (Jan 12, 2013)

midwestcoast said:


> Another sign of Lame Winter. Those are daffodils coming up here in the Chicago area today!
> Last year they bloomed on March 12'th. I'll never forget 'cause
> It was the day my daughter was born.
> Extra points to the first one with a correct wood ID on the mulch chips.
> ...


 Daffodils in January in Chicago! Amazing.  Now the snow will come and cover them, and they'll slow down for a bit.  Wouldn't be at all surprised to see them in bloom in March again.  Cedar?


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## midwestcoast (Jan 12, 2013)

rideau said:


> Cedar?


Nope.


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## jharkin (Jan 14, 2013)

58F today. The 8in of snow we got after new years is all gone.

We were supposed to get that arctic blast soon but now the weekend temps are expected only tom dip to the 30s


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## bubbasdad (Jan 14, 2013)

rideau said:


> And I know there has been concern about the continued navigatability of the St. Lawrence, I think in the area near Brockville, but I may be wrong about the location. water levels have been vry low some recent years.


 
Lake levels in the Great Lakes are down a couple of feet, and getting worse.  Smaller lakes here have a lot of docks sitting in mud, can't use the docks.  Last year a lot of snow plow guys went broke when they only plowed 4 times.  Looks like it will be another poor snow year.


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## Badfish740 (Jan 14, 2013)

I don't know about you guys, but at this point I would forgo the snow for a few weeks of sub 20 degree temps during the day.  Even without a flake of snow on the ground I love being out stacking, splitting, etc...when the air has a nice bite to it, the ground is as hard as granite, and everything is nice and still.  With the weather the way it's been we have to keep a pile of old towels by the back door because if the dog so much as steps off the back porch to pee he brings in a ton of mud   If I had my way the ground would stay frozen until April


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## ColdNH (Jan 15, 2013)

zap said:


> Move north, cold with plenty of snow.


 
Really? i moved north from CT to NH in search of snow and today january 15th all i see is grass out the window.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 15, 2013)

I always wanted to move south.Now i can stay put as the warm air has come to me. I do like a good blizzard now and then.


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 15, 2013)

This weekend is going to get very cold I can't wait either!  We love winter here well at least when we ha e a winter anyway.

Pete


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## Pallet Pete (Jan 15, 2013)

Actually looks like we will get a real feel below 0 for a bit


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## thewoodlands (Jan 15, 2013)

Pallet Pete said:


> Actually looks like we will get a real feel below 0 for a bit


They have a minus 10 for Monday, that means we should hit -15 or -18. We have some 3 almost 4 year old Beech all set.


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## pen (Jan 15, 2013)

Here's the map (if it shows up) for my area tonight.  I'm just south of Binghamton, looking like 3-6 here.  Might be a slick ride to work tomorrow.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 15, 2013)

I just checked the TWC online for the weather forecast next week, they are calling for -23 on Tuesday. With the loss of our snow last week it might cause some water main breaks.

The beech,sugar maple and ironwood will be the wood for that day.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 16, 2013)

Last night  TWC online had - 23 for Tuesday, this morning the have - 7,  we'll take the warmer weather!


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## Dune (Jan 21, 2013)

pen said:


> Here's the map (if it shows up) for my area tonight. I'm just south of Binghamton, looking like 3-6 here. Might be a slick ride to work tomorrow.


Back when I followed the Dead around ( pre-'85) I had a friend from Oneonta.


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## Badfish740 (Jan 22, 2013)

18 this morning in NJ!  Finally!  We might get close to single digits at night this week.


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## TradEddie (Jan 22, 2013)

Finally cold here in PA too. 17F last night, colder tonight. First time I've heard the electric baseboard thermostats activate this season. It's times like this that I wish I was home enough to burn 24/7. Luckily, propane is much cheaper this year.

I always find it fascinating how our perception of "cold" or "lame" winters is influenced by one or two significant events, not necessarily by measured temperatures or total snowfall over the winter.
It seems to me that winters with a lot of snow are typically considered "bad" winters, even if measured temperatures are not low. Also, snowfall on weekdays impacts us more, so a year with lots of snow, but falling on weekends is remembered as not being so bad. We remember the extremes, last year, the mildest winter on record just about everywhere, had a very cold week in January here in the NE, prompting someone on this site to suggest that NOAA was manipulating the numbers because he remembered one cold week, but had forgotten all those other frost-free nights...

TE


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## Badfish740 (Jan 22, 2013)

My perception of "lame" directly correlates the amount of days (or nights for that matter) in a given winter that are below freezing, regardless of the amount of snow we get or if we get any at all.


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## Stax (Jan 22, 2013)

Folks, up until this week in SE PA it has been a lame winter.  Average daily temp, very, very warm swings and total snowfall included.  I will enjoy burning this week.  We shall see what she has in store for us.  Hopefully some large snowfalls.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2013)

Dune said:


> Back when I followed the Dead around ( pre-'85) I had a friend from Oneonta.


 
I used to drive that route from Westchester to Syracuse frequently. Got caught in a blizzard one Easter that was a real doozy. Made it finally but it was some ride.


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## Dune (Jan 23, 2013)

begreen said:


> I used to drive that route from Westchester to Syracuse frequently. Got caught in a blizzard one Easter that was a real doozy. Made it finally but it was some ride.


 
What a long, strange trip it's been.


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## begreen (Jan 23, 2013)

Indeed, I was truckin' in a 67' Barracuda S and it had an 8-track!


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