# spliting big maple rounds that are rock hard



## rawlins02 (Aug 29, 2017)

I have about a dozen large maple rounds, between 3-4 feet in diameter and about 18 inches in length. The 40-50 foot tree was felled last July. Tree company bucked it up after dropping it. I wacked a couple of the rounds with my maul yesterday. Still rock hard after sitting a year. The rounds are too heavy to move. I'd rather not pay to rent a splitter. OK to let them sit out there until next summer? I'm thinking, how could they rot if they're still too hard to split? I have a couple wedges; one with a star shaped head and the other wedged shaped. Last year when I tried using them they just stuck in the round. Maybe I'll try the wedges again this weekend. I've never used them before. Are they very effective for this sort of thing?


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## ThunderMedic (Aug 29, 2017)

I have both of those wedges, plus both a six and eight pound splitting maul. I have never had an issue splitting large diameter sugar maple, red oak, and hickory. Don't do the wedge into the dead center of the round though. Plant it at the edge and wail away. It will split across and you won't stick a wedge without the ability to get it out. The sooner you get those split and stacked up off the ground, the better. 

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## Rangerbait (Aug 29, 2017)

^yep...with those mo stet round, you really do have to start at the edges and work your way in....unless of course you want to noodle them


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## Fuut Master (Aug 30, 2017)

Agreed. Start at the edge. It's nice to have two wedges in case one gets stuck in the round. If that don't work for ya Ranger bait is right, just noodle it.  .


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## 30WCF (Aug 30, 2017)

Chain saw


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## maple1 (Aug 30, 2017)

Was that tree alive when it was felled?

I left some maple rounds in the woods last fall, just didn't have time to get to them. I went back to split them early summer and they were all rotten - totally useless. That was a windfall that had been laying there for a couple years, I cut it up last spring, so laying there in rounds a bit over a year - but when rounds start to rot, it can happen fast. If those have been laying there a full year, I wouldn't leave them there like that any longer - from the staining I think I see, I think it's already starting.

Not sure what that means to your situation - either go at it from the edges with wedges, or noodle them (not a fan of that personally), or rent/borrow/whatever a splitter (what I would do - however I had to). One that will go vertical. Should be able to roll the rounds to in front of the beam, then flop them over onto the foot and have at it.


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## rawlins02 (Aug 30, 2017)

maple1 said:


> Was that tree alive when it was felled?



It was dying due to strangulation. Someone had tied a rope around it from which they hung a hammock. I'm sure there's not much rot now, but agree it's best not to let them sit out longer and through a New England winter. 

As others have suggested, I will go at it with the wedges near the edges. Will report level of effort and success next week. 

I'll leave chainsaw work for bucking etc. My inexperience makes them just plain scary...

Next after the maple will be bucking and splitting two downed medium sized ash trees:


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## kennyp2339 (Aug 30, 2017)

start a 6" deep groove with the chain saw, you can then insert the wedges (2) on each side, never split in the middle and drive them in, it will pop the round in half.
This is how I handle all big rounds, I use to try to noodle them, but felt it was a waste of fuel and a blade, now I make a purchase point in the top of the round and just drive the wedges in, it makes life easier.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 30, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Last year when I tried using them they just stuck in the round. Maybe I'll try the wedges again this weekend. I've never used them before. Are they very effective for this sort of thing?



I've found three traditional wedges and a 10 lb. sledge  will split any round. Less than 3 risks getting two stuck. Wear eye protection.


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## maple1 (Aug 30, 2017)

I've only had to noodle a couple times - when I stuck my splitter wedge solid in a big maple round, that looked a lot like the ones in the pic above. It was very tricky cutting with the saw while the round was stuck on my splitter - that was another story. But after all was said & done - it left these odd sized wedgy shaped little pieces, since the grain that the round ended up splitting along did not line up with the saw cuts.


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## TheAardvark (Aug 30, 2017)

I would noodle it and be done.


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## Highbeam (Aug 30, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> I'll leave chainsaw work for bucking etc. My inexperience makes them just plain scary...



Nah, it's riskier to swing a maul and try to hit those silly wedges. You could get metal in your eye!

Get your saw and noodle those. 4 footers are no big deal. It's relaxing and easy. No reason to bust a gut trying to swing a Neanderthal weight on a stick. Once noodled down you can stack them under cover where they won't rot.

Here's my 40" doug fir rounds that I couldn't lift until noodled into 6 chunks. No sweat.


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## ElmBurner (Aug 30, 2017)

For the big rounds, I usually noodle enough that a wedge can grab hold, then split them using the sledge hammer.  I buck trees into 20" rounds (that's what fits in my stove) and when you get to the big diameter rounds, it takes forever to noodle it with a 16" bar.

I usually break the round into quarters using the notch/wedge technique I described above, then you can split them up from there without a wedge.

I just did that with a 90 foot red oak that was so much taller/older than the other trees around it that it was basically a yard tree.  Made tough by the wind and basically unsplittable.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 30, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> Nah, it's riskier to swing a maul and try to hit those silly wedges. You could get metal in your eye!



No worries if you wear a pair of shades! It's fun and easy. Swinging to the tune of "I've Been Workin' on the Railroad, All the Live-long Day" makes it even more fun! And the metallic clang of a solid, well placed blow just can't be beat.



> No reason to bust a gut trying to swing a Neanderthal weight on a stick.



A Neanderthal would probably kill for a nice hickory handled 10 pound sledgehammer! And the wild woman would be all over him!


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## ThunderMedic (Aug 30, 2017)

I'm to the point with my stacks that I can be a little picky. Anything that isn't straight and knot-free goes into the old smoke dragon in my father-in-law's shop, or gets put into my fire pit for the kiddos. With running a smaller firebox on my insert, it really likes smaller sizes splits. 

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## Destructor (Aug 31, 2017)

I’ll often wale on large pieces with the mall working in a line from one side to the other, by the time I reach the other side I often will hear a crack. Also I’ll turn it over and do the same to the opposite side. Knotty pieces I chip away the edges then use the wedge. Sometimes I’ll just leave them if they are really stubborn, after a few more weeks weathering they will sometimes suddenly split after a few hits from being weakened from earlier beatings. Big chunks that won’t split down any further go in the fireplace, I then build a fire on top of it.


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## rawlins02 (Sep 1, 2017)

Thanks to all for the insightful commentary. I'm going to leave the saw work aside unless absolutely necessary. Though I do note the suggestion to create a small notch into which I can insert a wedge. I always where eye protection. I think I'll buy two more of the longer traditional wedges before I begin. The one with the star-shaped head just seems rather shallow. One other challenge is that many of the rounds are laying on their side, close together, on a slight incline, and surrounded by weeds. Just getting them laid flat and ready to be smacked is work in itself. We'll certainly find out if recent chiropractic treatments and exercise routine have helped this slim 53yo. Lesson: Don't Sit So Much!


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 1, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> I'm going to leave the saw work aside unless absolutely necessary. Though I do note the suggestion to create a small notch into which I can insert a wedge.



One more small tip:

If your wedges are ground sharp they will go right in without sawing a starter slot.


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## rawlins02 (Sep 1, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> One more small tip:
> 
> If your wedges are ground sharp they will go right in without sawing a starter slot.



I'm gonna sharpen the one I have, and my maul too (as I see described in another thread).


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## 30WCF (Sep 2, 2017)

Watch out for the jumping wedge. I almost had one kiss my chin last year. Is was buried in a tough round and I was leaning over to grab a second wedge. The first one suddenly popped out like a bullet and came up two feet up in the air and stopped inches from my front teeth. Those things are spring loaded. Just be mindful. 


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## rawlins02 (Sep 10, 2017)

I just finished with one of the larger rounds, about 3' in diameter. Took nearly a half hour to get it to stove-ready splits. Challenges were:

- the standard wedge just would not penetrate. Hitting it with back side of the maul was probably not the way to go. Suppose I need a sledge. 
- the pointy wedge seemed to work. After much pounding. Sometimes it got stuck.
- using the chainsaw for a starter slot did not work. Chainsaw blade just moved around resulting in a shallow wide mark, not a narrow "slot".
- after working the edge of round to get large chuck broken off, splitting those chunks was also very difficult. Rock hard. Maul probably needs sharpening. Or I need more muscle behind the swing... at 53yo and 175 lbs.
- the chucks tended to topple over after the maul bounced off. I then set it back up, swing, topple, reset, swing... 

Mosquitoes finally chased me inside. I imagine that splitting and stacking those 13-14 large rounds will take approx two 6 hour days. Unless I become more efficient. I recently saw a friend split his rounds. He brings the maul up to forehead level and barely swings. I guess this maple is just tough stuff. I like the exercise, but do feel I must become more efficient to make this a more enjoyable experience.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 11, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> - after working the edge of round to get large chuck broken off, splitting those chunks was also very difficult. Rock hard. Maul probably needs sharpening. Or I need more muscle behind the swing... at 53yo and 175 lbs.
> - the chucks tended to topple over after the maul bounced off. I then set it back up, swing, topple, reset, swing...



The blow of your swing imparts much more impact if your round is on a solid base. Use the heaviest round you can find (that's not too tall) to split upon. Make sure it's not on soft ground (like springy ground or organic soils). Hard gravel is good. This is especially important on old, hard rounds. They would have split a whole lot easier if they hadn't sat around and hardened up so much.

And yes, sharpen that maul. If the maul is going part way in (but not splitting it completely), spray or rub a lubricant like tire bead lube (vegetable and water based) on the splitting faces. An easy 360 degree swing builds head speed without tiring yourself out. Starting at the top of the swing, accelerate the head by drawing your hands down to the level of your round.

A good thing to keep in mind is you can't force a maul into the wood, you can only control the speed at which the maul is moving at the point of contact and where that point of contact is. Also the angle of contact. Wood that seems almost impossible to split with a maul velocity of 9/10 x, will bust open easily when you reach x velocity (where "x" is the velocity required).  The youngest, strongest athlete does not win the shot put, javlin or discus event, it is the athlete with the best technique and timing. Splitting wood is similar.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 11, 2017)

There is no way I'd try quartering those things without making a relief cut first.  I'd roll them on their side, and then saw at a 45 degree angle at whatever depth I think will let them break open.  Then I use the cut on the end to hold one of several wedges.  If I guessed right, I hear a crack after 3-4 hits.  Since I have lots of wedges, if it cracks, I like to take a second and third wedge and put them side by side leaving the first wedge in place.  Hit 2 and 3 to drive evenly, retrieve #1, and the thing breaks open.

I understand you don't enjoy the saw, but a relief cut would seem to be the safest possible cut.  Can't get pinched, nothing is coming in half unexpectedly.  Might be an opportunity to warm up to it.  But never lose the healthy respect you have for it.


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## maple1 (Sep 11, 2017)

*- using the chainsaw for a starter slot did not work. Chainsaw blade just moved around resulting in a shallow wide mark, not a narrow "slot".*

That doesn't sound quite right. With a sharp chain & correct tightness, you should be able to cut a slot a couple inches deep to get a wedge started. If you angle the saw say at 45°, you might do better with the cut - you will get more noodle effect vs. ripping effect. Ripping - which is cutting the same direction as a chain saw mill would, to try to put it into perspective - requires a ripping chain to be very effective & get vary far with it.


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## 30WCF (Sep 11, 2017)

Good logs are fun to split. Sucky ones just suck. 


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## rawlins02 (Sep 11, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> The blow of your swing imparts much more impact if your round is on a solid base. Use the heaviest round you can find (that's not too tall) to split upon. Make sure it's not on soft ground (like springy ground or organic soils). Hard gravel is good. This is especially important on old, hard rounds. They would have split a whole lot easier if they hadn't sat around and hardened up so much.
> 
> And yes, sharpen that maul.



I'd like to set them on top of one another. Moving many of the pieces is difficult. They're too heavy. I'm going to sharpen the maul and wedges.


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## rawlins02 (Sep 11, 2017)

Soundchasm said:


> There is no way I'd try quartering those things without making a relief cut first.  I'd roll them on their side, and then saw at a 45 degree angle at whatever depth I think will let them break open.  Then I use the cut on the end to hold one of several wedges.  If I guessed right, I hear a crack after 3-4 hits.  Since I have lots of wedges, if it cracks, I like to take a second and third wedge and put them side by side leaving the first wedge in place.  Hit 2 and 3 to drive evenly, retrieve #1, and the thing breaks open.
> 
> I understand you don't enjoy the saw, but a relief cut would seem to be the safest possible cut.  Can't get pinched, nothing is coming in half unexpectedly.  Might be an opportunity to warm up to it.  But never lose the healthy respect you have for it.



Here's one on its side. Are you saying make a chainsaw cut shown by the red line? Then lay it flat and put the wedge into that cut to start breaking it open?


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## 30WCF (Sep 11, 2017)

Slice it like a pie


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## Soundchasm (Sep 11, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Here's one on its side. Are you saying make a chainsaw cut shown by the red line? Then lay it flat and put the wedge into that cut to start breaking it open?
> 
> View attachment 200070



I cut an angle cut from the end down the side.  This lets me put really big stuff in my 5-ton electric splitter.  If you put your saw facing the end to cut, if your saw has teeth at the start of the blade, you let the teeth bite into the end and the saw isn't going anywhere.  I also start them with the saw over the middle of the split (on its side) and the teeth can bite there, too.  Just depends on what's easiest.  I found a photo that shows what I call a relief cut.

Then stand it on end

It always works.  Obviously, some cuts need to be bigger than others.  As a 165 lb 59 year old, I've concluded that if it's hard work, I'm doing it wrong.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 11, 2017)

Here's three wedges just for the heck of it.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 12, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> I just finished with one of the larger rounds, about 3' in diameter. Took nearly a half hour to get it to stove-ready splits. Challenges were:
> 
> - using the chainsaw for a starter slot did not work. Chainsaw blade just moved around resulting in a shallow wide mark, not a narrow "slot".



Hey, I may be reading this wrong, but are you saying the chain was wandering, as if it weren't tight enough to the bar, or are you saying the chain/bar was just jumping and traveling around and wouldn't really bite?  The former is not good, and maybe the latter could be a dull chain.

Rectifying a dull/loose chain was a bit of "inexperience" I'm glad to have behind me.  The fastest way to evaluate a chain when you don't have a benchmark is the size of the chips you're throwing.  Cutting the end off a log should throw healthy chips.  Fine dust is a dull chain.  Find a reference for correct chain tension.

I can see a little bouncy-bounce when starting a cut, but it should have settled right in for the cut.  A properly working saw will certainly give you more confidence when it performs as you expect.


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## rawlins02 (Sep 13, 2017)

Soundchasm said:


> Hey, I may be reading this wrong, but are you saying the chain was wandering, as if it weren't tight enough to the bar, or are you saying the chain/bar was just jumping and traveling around and wouldn't really bite?  The former is not good, and maybe the latter could be a dull chain.
> 
> Rectifying a dull/loose chain was a bit of "inexperience" I'm glad to have behind me.  The fastest way to evaluate a chain when you don't have a benchmark is the size of the chips you're throwing.  Cutting the end off a log should throw healthy chips.  Fine dust is a dull chain.  Find a reference for correct chain tension.
> 
> I can see a little bouncy-bounce when starting a cut, but it should have settled right in for the cut.  A properly working saw will certainly give you more confidence when it performs as you expect.



Chain was just sharpened at a nearby shop. These logs are super hard. 

I'm sure I'll figure something out, between the chainsaw, relief cuts, three sharp wedges, and a newly sharpened maul. And just maybe I'll finish the job before winter!


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## Soundchasm (Sep 14, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Chain was just sharpened at a nearby shop. These logs are super hard.
> 
> I'm sure I'll figure something out, between the chainsaw, relief cuts, three sharp wedges, and a newly sharpened maul. And just maybe I'll finish the job before winter!



Cool.  Hey, one other thing the forum hipped me up to was to keep an eye on the *top* of the wedge.  I have some pretty ancient wedges and the tops blossom/mushroom out after years of wailing on them.  It turns out the mushroomy bits become very effective shrapnel that penetrate clothing and skin.

My point is that I got one of those 2" grinding wheels for a drill and it took _FOREVER_ to grind off the cracks and get 4-5 wedges looking even halfway decent.  So that's a job best undertaken before it's necessary!


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## excessads (Sep 20, 2017)

[QUOTE=" I'm sure I'll figure something out, between the chainsaw, relief cuts, three sharp wedges, and a newly sharpened maul. And just maybe I'll finish the job before winter![/QUOTE]

Seeing you have quite a bit of rounds, may not be able to wedge/split them all at once, how about grabbing some unwanted pallets to elevate and tarp as many as possible, for now, and wedge/split at your leisure?  Rounds I found last year were elevated and tarped for about a year, aside from some minor rain exposure, they are holding up well, and I m almost done with splitting a little at a time.

I don't have a chainsaw, but do have a pair of chaps to protect myself from the Fiskar.

As for wedge, pleasantly surprised how well this works:. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Estwing-5-lb-Sure-Split-Wedge-E5/100351738

I start from the edge of the round like many suggested and whack with a dedicated sledge hammer.  I have splitted 20+ inches green soggy maple with the set up and works really well.  I use the x27 to create a notch and the wedge goes in perfectly.

In addition, for wedge with a square top, I found out aligning the body and face and strike the wedge as a diamond shape minimize chances of wedge projectile, it always go sideways instead of flying back to you.

Finally I am in my late 40s, even though I work out about 6+hours per week, can't get away w backache/soreness after a good day or splitting, doing planks is the only thing that helps speedy recovery.

My two cents.

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## Jutt77 (Sep 20, 2017)

Do you have a buddy with a splitter that you could borrow from?  Maybe someone on this site (or other similar sites) that is close by with one could exchange for tasty beverages or something?  I loan mine out quite often so I thought I'd ask the obvious.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 12, 2017)

Made another attempt at splitting the maple rounds. They are like rocks. I bought a 4 lb Stanley hammer to use to drive in wedges. I simply can not penetrate most parts of most rounds with either type of wedge. I also bought a Fiskars X27. After a few mighty swings I was able to split up one round. The X27 is certainly more effective than the Rockforge maul. But it's unlikely that I can effectively split these rounds with the Fiskars and wedges. I don't know anyone with a splitter. I assume I'd have to sharpen the chain several times if I were to use the saw. Before I go that route I'd like to consider what would happen if I can get these rounds off the ground and covered with a tarp for the winter. Let them sit for another 8-10 months. Shouldn't maple reach a point where it's dried some and becomes easier to split, but not rotten or having lost any of its heating potential? They've been sitting in place for about 15 months.


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## jatoxico (Nov 12, 2017)

I had some maple as hard as you describe. Many times even the Fiskar's as sharp as it is would bounce off without any making noticeable mark. You can use the Fiskar's to strike the side instead of the face to get better penetration. Between the saw and hand tools just takes persistence.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 12, 2017)

jatoxico said:


> I had some maple as hard as you describe. Many times even the Fiskar's as sharp as it is would bounce off without any making noticeable mark. You can use the Fiskar's to strike the side instead of the face to get better penetration. Between the saw and hand tools just takes persistence.



Yes I did try the side on a few. Agree on the persistence. As suggested, I'm going to try making initial cuts with the saw into which I'll drive a wedge. I just bought another traditional wedge, so have 2 of those and one star shaped. I'd really don't want to use the saw entirely to noodle them down. And I prefer to get then split up before it  starts snowing. But may opt to cover them up.


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## zig (Nov 13, 2017)

Before I got a splitter, I used an old single bit ax to take slices off the outside to start it then switched to a long tapered wedge. You can split any big rounds that way except elm. My Dad would leave stuff like that until Jan. when they were frozen through and popped apart easier. Big stuff like those are hard to pass up but a lot of work.


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## Jags (Nov 13, 2017)

4 pound hammer?  You are bringing a knife to a gunfight.  You need to be upwards of 8-10 pounds for the sledge/wedge to be effective on that tuff stuff.


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## Zack R (Nov 13, 2017)

Sounds like you are getting a lot of good advice and feedback on this challenge. If it was me personally I'd noodle those rounds into quarters and then split the quarters into smaller pieces with the Fiskars X27 that you mentioned. 

If the ground is soft you will be wasting your time trying to split them in place since the energy will be dissipated (as @WoodyIsGoody mentioned). If the rounds are too heavy you'll be killing yourself trying to lift them up onto another round in attempt to split them in place.

If I were nearby I'd noodle them for you in trade for case of beer (or for some of the wood). Your Husqvarna 445 will get the job done but the key is to come from the side of the log with the bark instead of the top. Set the round on its side, brace it with two other rounds if needed and cut downward. Let the saw do the work and angle the back of the saw upward a bit as you go to help expel the chips. 

Avoid getting into a situation where you are wearing yourself down just to get these split. Take advantage of the tools and knowledge at your disposal to make it easier. When I'm splitting wood and encounter a really tough one I cast it aside instead of wasting my energy just to get one round apart. Once I have a pile of these aside I noodle them up and call it good.


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## Destructor (Nov 13, 2017)

My brother has a Monster Mall, it is very heavy with a welded steel handle. I occasionally used it. Almost nothing escaped the Monster Mall except maybe a very big round with a huge knot. I don’t know if they still make it but it’s something you don’t want to use all the time. We’d split the really big ones then go back to the regular mall. I almost forgot all about it because I haven’t borrowed it in years.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 13, 2017)

Jags said:


> 4 pound hammer?  You are bringing a knife to a gunfight.  You need to be upwards of 8-10 pounds for the sledge/wedge to be effective on that tuff stuff.



I'll probably go back to using the back side of the Rockforge maul. But it's so heavy that I typically brace the end of handle under my armpit. Hard to get a good firm strike like that. The wedges just don't penetrate this maple.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 13, 2017)

Zack R said:


> If the ground is soft you will be wasting your time trying to split them in place since the energy will be dissipated (as @WoodyIsGoody mentioned). If the rounds are too heavy you'll be killing yourself trying to lift them up onto another round in attempt to split them in place.



Exactly. I've been killing myself to haul one round up onto another one. My next attempt will be to noodle a few down to where the X27 can finish the job. And I'll be in no hurry. Do a few each week. I'm 53 yo and don't want to get hurt. And too much wood processing gets my hands aching and makes it hard to play guitar!


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## Zack R (Nov 13, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Exactly. I've been killing myself to haul one round up onto another one. My next attempt will be to noodle a few down to where the X27 can finish the job. And I'll be in no hurry. Do a few each week. I'm 53 yo and don't want to get hurt. And too much wood processing gets my hands aching and makes it hard to play guitar!



One approach you could take is to offer someone half the wood if they split and stack it for you. There's a guy I know locally who offered me half of his log pile if I cut them into rounds, its a win win since he doesn't have the time and we both need the wood.

These tough heavy rounds might end up being more than you want to bite off at the moment. You'll be kicking yourself if you get injured trying to muscle them around or have to beat them into submission with a heavy maul.


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## Jags (Nov 13, 2017)

Ever consider a rental vert/horizontal machine for a day?  This might be one of those times that it makes sense.


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## Woodfarmer1 (Nov 13, 2017)

I think you’ve spent too much time on here and not enough time swinging the maul. They certainly do not look anywheres near 3 or 4’ wide. Start near the edge and work your way around the rounds.
They will also be easier to split when frozen so I wouldn’t leave them till next spring.


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## saewoody (Nov 13, 2017)

Zack R said:


> If I were nearby I'd noodle them for you in trade for case of beer (or for some of the wood). Your Husqvarna 445 will get the job done but the key is to come from the side of the log with the bark instead of the top. Set the round on its side, brace it with two other rounds if needed and cut downward. Let the saw do the work and angle the back of the saw upward a bit as you go to help expel the chips.



Best explanation/description of noodling I have ever read. Very clear!



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## gzecc (Nov 13, 2017)

If you know an athletic 200lb 25 year old guy, Have him over to split those for you. You need brute force, There's nothing easy about it.


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## WiscWoody (Nov 13, 2017)

Black Friday is coming up, that’s when I bought my 22 ton splitter for $600 and I got 12 months 0% financing for it on their store card. If your going to doing more splitting in the coming years it sure is nice to have around.


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## pernox (Nov 13, 2017)

Where in western MA are you?


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## Soundchasm (Nov 13, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> I'm 53 yo and don't want to get hurt. And too much wood processing gets my hands aching and makes it hard to play guitar!



I'm so glad to hear somebody say that!!  Remember, all that stuff is permanent, or at the least, cumulative.  My mantra is to NEVER use my hands as tools anymore.  Working with a splitter, everything I handle is open-palm (mainly for safety).  I try to use the least amount of finger power picking up rounds.

The tree I want backsies on was a big hackberry in 2012.  Every single split had to be pulled apart by hand.  They were "tweeners", not quite enough for a hatchet and a bit too much for hands.  I was working with my BIL, and maybe we were kind of in a bit of a contest.  For months and months afterwards, I'd be playing a gig when this screaming pain would come upon my left hand out of nowhere, and I had no memory of banging it during load-in.  I couldn't push the strings down on the neck!!  Sometimes it would pass quickly, and sometimes it wouldn't.  I started questioning my sanity until one bad night I saw the hand was clearly swollen.  What a relief (sort of).  I finally remembered it was very similar to a pain I experienced with the hackberry and put two and two together.

Prevent the injury by not over-stressing something in the first place.  These tools aren't appropriate for your current situation, but have really come in "handy" several times.  Mix things up and don't be afraid to ice your hands.  It really helps.

The tongs are cool, as is the two hooky thing.  When the hooks bite into a round, off you go.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 13, 2017)

Jags said:


> Ever consider a rental vert/horizontal machine for a day?  This might be one of those times that it makes sense.



Yes. Cost $100 for the day and I'd need to rent a vehicle to tow it. Since I only have ~$200 worth of wood I'd rather not pay to process it.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 13, 2017)

pernox said:


> Where in western MA are you?



Amherst


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## rawlins02 (Nov 13, 2017)

Soundchasm said:


> I'm so glad to hear somebody say that!!  Remember, all that stuff is permanent, or at the least, cumulative.  My mantra is to NEVER use my hands as tools anymore.  Working with a splitter, everything I handle is open-palm (mainly for safety).  I try to use the least amount of finger power picking up rounds.



Good lesson. I find that I'm fine if I don't do too much in any one day.


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## jaoneill (Nov 13, 2017)

I have about 15/17 similar rounds (a bit bigger) of similar hardness, two of which are solid knot and will probably rot into the forest floor. I started on these rounds last year (when there were well over 25) and had to noodle into halves or thirds to lighten up enough to get on the foot of the splitter. There were also two more of the solid knot variety that I noodled into 8X8 bricks. I have cut more than my share of wood over a lifetime and this tree is probably the hardest I've encountered. Using my old Pioneer (100 +/- cc) with a 30" bar I have to touch up the chain after every two noodling cuts.


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## rawlins02 (Nov 14, 2017)

jaoneill said:


> I have about 15/17 similar rounds (a bit bigger) of similar hardness, two of which are solid knot and will probably rot into the forest floor. I started on these rounds last year (when there were well over 25) and had to noodle into halves or thirds to lighten up enough to get on the foot of the splitter. There were also two more of the solid knot variety that I noodled into 8X8 bricks. I have cut more than my share of wood over a lifetime and this tree is probably the hardest I've encountered. Using my old Pioneer (100 +/- cc) with a 30" bar I have to touch up the chain after every two noodling cuts.



Sounds familiar. You seems to have the right attitude about the process. The thought of having to repeatedly sharpen the chain is one reason why I'd rather not reply too much on the saw. I'd hoped that the wedges would be more effective. Sometime this week I'm going to make a few saw cuts and go again with the wedges. As needed noodle them down to thirds or quarters to begin pounds with the Fiskars X27. Based on the weight, I'd have to think these splits have some pretty good BTU storage. Will burn in 2018-2019.


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## jaoneill (Nov 14, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Sounds familiar. You seems to have the right attitude about the process. The thought of having to repeatedly sharpen the chain is one reason why I'd rather not reply too much on the saw. I'd hoped that the wedges would be more effective. Sometime this week I'm going to make a few saw cuts and go again with the wedges. As needed noodle them down to thirds or quarters to begin pounds with the Fiskars X27. Based on the weight, I'd have to think these splits have some pretty good BTU storage. Will burn in 2018-2019.


Two years ago I had one that was about the size of your's and I noodled the entire 35+ foot butt log worth of 2' rounds with one sharpening midway through. That tree wasn't 200' from this one, but nowhere near as hard, or quite as big. I'm only 5'8" but rounds from this old girl are chest high!


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## gzecc (Nov 14, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Yes. Cost $100 for the day and I'd need to rent a vehicle to tow it. Since I only have ~$200 worth of wood I'd rather not pay to process it.


I can rent a logsplitter here for $90 including delivery. Check craigslist. We would all prefer not to pay to process wood.


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## Rare Blaze Color (Nov 15, 2017)

maple1 said:


> *- using the chainsaw for a starter slot did not work. Chainsaw blade just moved around resulting in a shallow wide mark, not a narrow "slot".*
> 
> That doesn't sound quite right. With a sharp chain & correct tightness, you should be able to cut a slot a couple inches deep to get a wedge started. If you angle the saw say at 45°, you might do better with the cut - you will get more noodle effect vs. ripping effect. Ripping - which is cutting the same direction as a chain saw mill would, to try to put it into perspective - requires a ripping chain to be very effective & get vary far with it.


ripping a lot of dry maple is brave work for an old chainsaw, hope you can file as much as you cut!


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## Rare Blaze Color (Nov 15, 2017)

jaoneill said:


> Two years ago I had one that was about the size of your's and I noodled the entire 35+ foot butt log worth of 2' rounds with one sharpening midway through. That tree wasn't 200' from this one, but nowhere near as hard, or quite as big. I'm only 5'8" but rounds from this old girl are chest high!


how old was the tree? healthy? it gets hard to count rings when the middle is hollow...


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## timfromohio (Nov 15, 2017)

Jags said:


> Ever consider a rental vert/horizontal machine for a day?  This might be one of those times that it makes sense.




I second this recommendation to rent a splitter.  My general rule of thumb is if I whack a round 3 times and make no meaningful progress it goes into the pile destined for a splitter which we rent 1x per year.  Typical rental cost is ~$80/day when all said and done plus some gas.  Not a bad deal.  

The only downside, and reason why I'll eventually buy my own splitter, is that as I've gotten older I've noticed my body takes longer to recover from a 10 hour splitting frenzy.  It would be nice to split for a few hours periodically rather than go at it manically for a single, long session to justify the rental cost.


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## Jags (Nov 15, 2017)

I know I am repeating myself over the last several years, but here it goes...

My opinion is that if you plan on doing this for the long haul with any meaningful amount of wood, then get a splitter. Get one BEFORE you wreck yourself.  Its one of the few investments I know that you can use for years and sell it for 80% of its original cost. Its also one of the few tools that will save your shoulders and wrists. A splitter doesn’t make it easy - it makes it easier.

Just one dudes opinion.

ETA: another way to look at it...you can own and use one for years and the depreciation is about equal to 3 or 4 days rental.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Nov 15, 2017)

I have had success scoring rounds like that with the chain saw an inch or two deep then using a wedge and sledge. Once you get them broke in half then you should be able to nibble off chunks with just the wedge


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## maple1 (Nov 15, 2017)

Rare Blaze Color said:


> ripping a lot of dry maple is brave work for an old chainsaw, hope you can file as much as you cut!



I'm not doing any ripping. In anything. Hard or soft. Don't think I suggested it either - rather the opposite, orient so not ripping but rather noodling.


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## GadDummit (Nov 15, 2017)

I'm no pro but the only thing I'd touch that with is a gas powered splitter and a good pair of goggles. Put an ad on Craigslist "old man with a few maple rounds needs to borrow splitter for an hour. Will pay a case of beer, pepsi, heck at this point maybe even hookers. These things are way too tough for my handaxe."


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## pernox (Nov 15, 2017)

rawlins02 said:


> Amherst


Little too far to tow the splitter over - would have been glad to help if you were out my way. (Hinsdale)

I might recommend waiting until they freeze up real hard and give them another whack if they aren't buried by then. When I hand split, I found that this would help with some of the tough stuff.


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## rawlins02 (Oct 9, 2018)

OK. Still trying. But now I understand why splitting this sugar maple by hand is a lost cause after it's sat for 2 years. It gets harder with age!.... Pun intended .....LOL

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/splitting-maple.47082/


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## Tar12 (Oct 10, 2018)

I would fire up my 660 and be done in 15 minutes with all of it..to hell with the gut busting techniques


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## rawlins02 (Oct 10, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> I would fire up my 660 and be done in 15 minutes with all of it..to hell with the gut busting techniques



Oh yea. I'm done with that maple. At 54 yo I value my time and wrist/arm health so I can play my guitar. Too bad it has to sit and rot where it is. Unsightly. Should have had the tree company haul it away when they took it down. The $175 a cord I pay each year for the 1.5 to 2 cords I burn is money well spent!


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## Microduck17 (Oct 10, 2018)

Jags said:


> I know I am repeating myself over the last several years, but here it goes...
> 
> My opinion is that if you plan on doing this for the long haul with any meaningful amount of wood, then get a splitter. Get one BEFORE you wreck yourself.  Its one of the few investments I know that you can use for years and sell it for 80% of its original cost. Its also one of the few tools that will save your shoulders and wrists. A splitter doesn’t make it easy - it makes it easier.
> 
> ...


I got 5 stitches in my nose and a black eye in April after a 5 pound wedge went flying, wile trying to split some knotted red oak into sizes I could lift onto my splitter. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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