# New Harman, Smoke smell in house



## brokenknee (Sep 21, 2013)

I would like to say I tried using the search function, spent the last hour or so reading old post dealing with the subject.

I did a self install of my Harman P68 last weekend. I know to expect a smell from a new stove from paint curing etc. That smell is now pretty much gone. 

I did a direct vent with an OAK, with either two or three foot horizontal extension on the outside of the house.   

My problem, on startup a very strong smoke smell is coming from the stove. When it burned hard it would go away after a while. Tonight had the stove set about 72* went to bed, it is just cool enough (37*) for the stove to run, a slow burn, woke up about two am, strong smoke smell in the house, fire burning low. Turned stove off as the smell was so bad.

This is a brand new stove so I would not think the gaskets on either of the doors would be bad.

Ideas on how to trouble shoot the problem?


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## stillersnut (Sep 21, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> I would like to say I tried using the search function, spent the last hour or so reading old post dealing with the subject.
> 
> I did a self install of my Harman P68 last weekend. I know to expect a smell from a new stove from paint curing etc. That smell is now pretty much gone.
> 
> ...


Did you seal all seams of the pipe? If not, could be leaking from seams.


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## Speed3 (Sep 21, 2013)

Definitely check the joints of the vent for leaks. If that isn't it, call the dealer for warranty service. 

BTW, off topic, but how good is Bemidji Woolen Mills? I stumbled across their website and am interested in one of their coats.


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## MikeNH (Sep 21, 2013)

Like other folks have already said, check your pipe seams first.  I had a similar issue last year though the smell was not strong.  It was definitely there though.  On the advice of others, I waited until night when the room was nice and dark, and lit the stove.  I got behind the stove (as best I could) and using a flashlight against the pipe, I was able to see exactly which joint the smoke was coming out of.


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## Bioburner (Sep 21, 2013)

I double up using both silicone and a wrap of foil duct tape. Any vertical on exhaust and any elbows?


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## brokenknee (Sep 21, 2013)

I did not seal any of the seams, Under trouble shooting in the manual it says to use silicone to seal the seams if you smell smoke. I would think that would make it next to impossible to get the pipe apart when the need arises. I do not have any vertical runs only horizontal.  I do have a 45* elbow coming off the back of the stove as it is in a corner.

Do I need to use a high temp silicone? The manual did not specify what type.

Speed3, Bemidji Woolen Mills has a good reputation, but I have not shopped there so can't help you much.


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## Delta-T (Sep 21, 2013)

yes, hi-temp silly-cone. there aren't a lot of instances where you'll need to disassemble the pipe. just get a nice bendy brush for cleaning the pipe.you can disconnect the stove from the pipe by undoing the exhaust flange (3 bolts) if you need to. good luck.


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## P38X2 (Sep 21, 2013)

+100 on the above posts. The flashlight method works VERY well. Make sure your foil tape is applied as SMOOTH as possible. If you have ripples, redo that area first, as it's likely the problem. As others have said, you may have to silicone the seams. Yes, high temp stuff. By seams, we mean the long seam down the length of each section. As far as joints go, try and use just the tape. If you find it still leaks, you may have to silicone those too. Try NOT to get silicone INSIDE the connection! Put a thin layer where the pipe fittings overlap. Let it cure a bit, then tape it.

If you have an elbow, try and use the flashlight method on that. You MAY end up siliconing all the articulating sections in it. Those things can be a pain!


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## Bioburner (Sep 21, 2013)

P38X2 did a good job of describing how to properly seal things up. Someone needs to make a short video on venting assembly and sealing methods as this seems to be one of the top new to  pellet stove complaints.


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## gbreda (Sep 21, 2013)

P38X2 said:


> If you have an elbow, try and use the flashlight method on that. You MAY end up siliconing all the articulating sections in it. Those things can be a pain!



Great advise, especially the elbow.

Very good point !  I had the same issue on startup and the final  issue was the 90 deg.  My issue was not the points from 1 pipe to the next, it was the manufacture joints on the bend.  Replaced the joint and had the same issue.  Finally taped the bend and has been no issue in 3 years.

Also, did you silicone the exhaust adapter joint?  That is a must.

This was with ICC pipe.


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## P38X2 (Sep 21, 2013)

gbreda said:


> Great advise, especially the elbow.
> 
> Very good point !  I had the same issue on startup and the final  issue was the 90 deg.  My issue was not the points from 1 pipe to the next, it was the manufacture joints on the bend.  Replaced the joint and had the same issue.  Finally taped the bend and has been no issue in 3 years.
> 
> ...


What a pain, huh? My problem elbow was Simpson brand. Surprise! Lol. I'm actually surprised that ANY manufacturer can make an articulating PV joint that doesn't leak.


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## gbreda (Sep 21, 2013)

P38X2 said:


> What a pain, huh? My problem elbow was Simpson brand. Surprise! Lol. _*I'm actually surprised that ANY manufacturer can make an articulating PV joint that doesn't leak*_.



How true.  Luckily my stove is in an unfinished basement so tape on the pipe is not an appearance issue.


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## P38X2 (Sep 21, 2013)

Another bit of advice....If you don't have a CO detector, GET ONE !


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## iron stove (Sep 21, 2013)

YES on CO detector. Did a call the other night with CO from a Wood stove !!

Also, remember, pellet stoves use pressurized exhaust, unlike a wood stove, so much easier to get a leak


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## brokenknee (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies, will have to run to town to get some high temp silicone. Yes we do have a CO detector.  

We have heated with wood the last two year as the main source of heat, so we are use to a "little" smoke smell. We will continue to heat with wood once I get the new wood stove installed. We purchased the pellet stove for the convenience, I occasionally travel for my job and it will make it easier for the wife to heat the place.


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## kinsmanstoves (Sep 21, 2013)

Is there an adapter between the stove and the 45 elbow you mentioned?

Eric


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## Lousyweather (Sep 21, 2013)

meh.....my money on this one is on the stove nipple-pipe connection......otherwise, its Simpson pipe....'nuff said


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## Harman Lover 007 (Sep 21, 2013)

Lousyweather said:


> meh.....my money on this one is on the stove nipple-pipe connection......otherwise, its Simpson pipe....'nuff said


That was my question....what brand of venting is it? If its Simpson DuraVent, forget it. The connector on the back of the stove is usually the culprit, especially if you don't have the proper adapter that Eric is asking about above.....


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## hooter04 (Sep 21, 2013)

Thats a good question Eric,funny you say that.I went to a friends to install a magnum baby,and asked him if he had a stove adapter to connect 45 to,nope so guess what,he went and got one.Needless to say no smoke smell,and don't forget the high temp silicone on the adapter


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## pell it (Sep 21, 2013)

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tap...33-yds-Silicone-Sealing-Tape-684201/100206050

I use this on my painted dura-leak pipe and it seals well. It is rated to +500 degrees F.


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## imacman (Sep 21, 2013)

I used hi-temp silicone just on the stove adapter pipe connection to the stove exhaust manifold, then used furnace tape on all the others.  You can spray paint it too.


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## brokenknee (Sep 26, 2013)

Update, I do have an adaptor from the stove to the pipe, that is now siliconed in place. I taped the other two connections  that are inside the house. This cut down on the smoke but did not stop it entirely. I do not know the brand of the piping, it was supplied by the dealer.

I was looking at the gasket around the stove it is a light brown in most spots. I checked the gasket with a dollar bill and was able to easily pull the dollar out. I know on a refrigerator that would be considered a bad seal. Does the same apply for pellet stoves? How else would one check the gasket? Is there any adjustment on the Harman P68 door to tighten the gasket?

I have yet to call the dealer as I want to try to eliminate all the small stuff he would suggest first. If it is the gasket, would it be reasonable to expect him to come to my home to replace it? I live 1 1/2 hours from the dealer.

Again thanks for all the replies, I appreciate them all.


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## P38X2 (Sep 26, 2013)

Check your manual. Almost positive it shows the procedure for tightening the door.


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## P38X2 (Sep 26, 2013)

Doh, maybe not. Mine doesn't anyway. I'd venture to guess you can loosen the setscrew on the little cam tang thing on the inside of the door and slide it a bit closer to the door. Might require a bit of trial and error.


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## P38X2 (Sep 26, 2013)

OK, the 68 latches differently from the 38

Try this if you don't have your manual handy....page 25 I think
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/P68.pdf&ei=LEREUsCSBvGr4APu_YGACQ&usg=AFQjCNFaR4xNHjzbKBebUFlJfGvO0cDAwg


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## brokenknee (Sep 26, 2013)

P38X2 said:


> Check your manual. Almost positive it shows the procedure for tightening the door.


 
A lot of information in them manuals . One bolt, one nut; I had to move it all the way back to get a tighter seal, I can still pull the dollar bill out but not as easily.

I will wait until tonight to fire it up as I have to get ready for work soon.

thanks again.


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 2, 2013)

Harman pellet stoves work on negative pressure.  That means when the stove is running if the door gasket is not set you WILL NOT get smoke in the house.  The exhaust is under positive pressure when the stove is running so if you are smelling smoke as the stove is running look at the exhaust.

Eric


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## brokenknee (Oct 2, 2013)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Harman pellet stoves work on negative pressure.  That means when the stove is running if the door gasket is not set you WILL NOT get smoke in the house.  The exhaust is under positive pressure when the stove is running so if you are smelling smoke as the stove is running look at the exhaust.
> 
> Eric


 
Thanks, for the information. Is the door seal even that important then?


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## subsailor (Oct 2, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> Thanks, for the information. Is the door seal even that important then?


 
Yes, a bad seal will let air into the stove and disrupt the negative pressure. Lazy flame, black ash, incomplete burn, etc.


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## Lousyweather (Oct 3, 2013)

subsailor said:


> Yes, a bad seal will let air into the stove and disrupt the negative pressure. Lazy flame, black ash, incomplete burn, etc.


....and a bad enough leak can result in no feed at all......


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 3, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> Thanks, for the information. Is the door seal even that important then?



To keep a proper air/fuel mixture, YES.

Eric


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 3, 2013)

subsailor said:


> Yes, a bad seal will let air into the stove and disrupt the negative pressure. Lazy flame, black ash, incomplete burn, etc.




Good call from a "Bubblehead". 

Eric


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## subsailor (Oct 3, 2013)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Good call from a "Bubblehead".


 
I wonder where you learned that?


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## Stoveman 77 (Oct 3, 2013)

Is there a lable on the pipe,try to find the name of pipe it is pellet pipe correct


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## stellep (Oct 3, 2013)

I've chased a leak for about 3 or more years.  I've tried all the flashlight in the dark, rtv, tape etc.solutions. Duravent? Check.
After about a dozen bags early in the season, it goes away.  So, there is a pinhole somewhere in the exhaust that gets plugged with ash sometime after a good cleaning.

Sorry that this doesn't help you much.  Just an observation.


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## kinsmanstoves (Oct 4, 2013)

subsailor said:


> I wonder where you learned that?




Three years on a birdfarm.  Or as a Bubblehead would call it, "target".

Eric


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## imacman (Oct 4, 2013)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Three years on a birdfarm.  Or as a Bubblehead would call it, "target".
> 
> Eric


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## daffonce (Oct 4, 2013)

I have a harman xxv with duravent piping. I had a bit of smoke smell first few days of burning last year thag went away. Think ash plugged up the leak. This year had smoke smell again on startup saw a bit of smoke come from the cleanout trap. I siliconed every joint inside the house. Smoke smell gone.


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## brokenknee (Oct 5, 2013)

Stoveman 77 said:


> Is there a lable on the pipe,try to find the name of pipe it is pellet pipe correct


 
The pipe was supplied by the dealer, I am sure it is for a pellet stove.

I thought the smell was gone, but the wife said she got a slight smell of it the other day. It was a little breezy outside, would it be possible the wind is forcing the smoke back in the stove and causing a leak in an area that normally isn't subject to any smoke so it is not sealed for it? We put in all new windows and doors this summer so it should not be coming in from any of those.

I am letting the stove cool off right now so I can clean it, I will take a look see if I notice anything out of place.


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## P38X2 (Oct 5, 2013)

Can you tell us exactly what you've sealed/taped so far? Did you seal the wall thimble?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 5, 2013)

Make certain there is no joint inside the thimble.

The wall thimble should be sealed on the outside make sure the area around where the vent passes through the thimble is sealed.

Make certain the thimble is sealed to the house all the way around.

As for relying on the installer to have used the correct venting well we have seen all kinds of foul ups in that area.


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## brokenknee (Oct 5, 2013)

I did not seal the wall thimble, it is an oak. I will have to feel down there to see if I feel a draft. There is some wind today so when I am cleaning the stove I will see if I can notice anything.

No joints in the thimble.

As far as the piping goes I think it said duravent on the box. It looks like the pellet pipe I have seen at the big box stores.


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## movemaine (Oct 5, 2013)

Pictures would help as well.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 5, 2013)

brokenknee said:


> I did not seal the wall thimble, it is an oak. I will have to feel down there to see if I feel a draft. There is some wind today so when I am cleaning the stove I will see if I can notice anything.
> 
> No joints in the thimble.
> 
> As far as the piping goes I think it said duravent on the box. It looks like the pellet pipe I have seen at the big box stores.



You also need to make certain your joints on OAKs are sealed as well along with where the OAK penetrates the house on the outside.

Please post a picture of your vent on the outside of the house along with a closeup of the thimble.


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## P38X2 (Oct 5, 2013)

It's extremely unlikely you bought the wrong type of vent pipe...maybe the wrong brand though  One of my stoves uses Duravent. Before I went nutty with silicone and tape, it leaked in multiple places. My other stove has another brand of venting. No leaks.

Break out the silicone and seal up that thimble. If it's a tight squeeze back there and you don't wanna pull your stove out, you can get high temp silicone in toothpaste style tubes (as opposed to the tube and gun)


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## Lousyweather (Oct 7, 2013)

*yawn*   Simpson Duravent.......tee, 90, or the stove nipple......my money isn't on the thimble at all.......


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## Central NH (Oct 7, 2013)

I would tape all elbow type joints and any seam duravent is known to leak you can paint all tape with high temp stove/grill paint as well as pipe.  my 45' elbow leaked at swivel point big time before putting the foil tape on it.


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