# Pellet Boiler



## donnied44 (Mar 4, 2011)

I have been doing extensive research on Pellet Boilers, inside & out and find it really difficult to get concrete answers from dealers or the factories.  The few that did answer me, Tarm & Woodmaster, I found their prices to be out of the realm for me.  I stumped across Central Boiler's website and got interested in the Maxim outdoor boilers, but after reading reviews here and at another forum, I shyed away after reading about other owners problems with burn back, creosote, and a big one, they seem to use a lot more pellets than the brochure states.  95% efficient?  Can't understand where they get this figure from. I read one guy was burning 3-4 bags a day or more.  The other thing that concerns me is domestic hot water in the summer.  Some posters here describe "idling" .   Does this mean I'm going to have to let the boiler burn on the lowest setting all throughout the summer?  I was hoping to find a boiler that would start up on demand to provide hot water.
( I don't want to have to install massive LP tanks to accomplish this )  I just want to use my Stor zoned hot water heater.    Does anyone here have any suggestions for a good, economical, residential pellet boiler, or want to recommend what they are currently using and please include what you like and drawbacks, if any.  Thanks.


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## Fsappo (Mar 4, 2011)

I wont go into hawking my own wares, but I didnt see you mention Pinnacle Boilers.  I have two customers that heat hot water thru the off season by letting the boiler run on its "pilot" setting.  It takes a little dialing in of the draft and feed rates as well as a good pellet, but it can be done.  If you have any questions on them feel free to send me an email.


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## mkling (Mar 4, 2011)

I bought my Pinnacle PB150 from Franks, it is a great unit that is very easy to operate and work on yourself which is very important to me. It really is a very simple machine that is easy to operate and maintain with good dealers and good factory support. I use it hooked up in a loop with my existing oil fired boiler so that during heating seasons I dial down the aquastat on the oil fired boiler and let the pellet boiler heat it and my house. The Pinnacle can heat DHW directly but I have never found a need for this in my configuration since the pellet boiler is constantly keeping its baby bro at 170+, so my instant DHW is sort of heated indirectly by the pellet boiler.  During the warmer months I shut down the pellet boiler and turn the aquastat on the oil fired boiler back up to provide DHW.  The only complaint I had about this boiler at first was that it was nearly impossible to clean the combustion fan without completely removing the housing from the boiler which also meant removing the chimney off of the boiler. Pinnacle has since redesigned the fan housing to have an easy to remove plate that has the impellers and motor attached to it; to take full advantage of this I would recommend that you put a twist lock plug on the power cable going to the combustion fan motor so it can be completely removed for cleaning. It used to take me a a full day to do a cleaning on this unit in order to dismantle everything, but now I spend two hours once a month to do a full cleaning. In terms of pellet usage, I use 5 tons/season on average for a 2000 sq ft. house. If there on average 120 heating days in a year then this averages out to be 2 bags/day, but there are very cold days in January where I will easily go through 4 bags in a day and then of course warmer days during the shoulder season where I will go through one bag in a day. The heat that this thing puts out is pretty amazing, as even on the coldest days my house never goes below 72 deg. This unit doesn't have a lot of the bells and whistles that the more expensive European models do but I also see this as somewhat of a benefit since when something goes wrong you will be able to fix it, kinda like working on an older model car versus a newer one. It is easily one of the best investments I have ever made as I am saving about 50% off of my yearly heating bill, so I should hit my payback point in a couple of years.


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## harttj (Mar 4, 2011)

Pel_Don said:
			
		

> I have been doing extensive research on Pellet Boilers, inside & out and find it really difficult to get concrete answers from dealers or the factories.  The few that did answer me, Tarm & Woodmaster, I found their prices to be out of the realm for me.  I stumped across Central Boiler's website and got interested in the Maxim outdoor boilers, but after reading reviews here and at another forum, I shyed away after reading about other owners problems with burn back, creosote, and a big one, they seem to use a lot more pellets than the brochure states.  95% efficient?  Can't understand where they get this figure from. I read one guy was burning 3-4 bags a day or more.  The other thing that concerns me is domestic hot water in the summer.  Some posters here describe "idling" .   Does this mean I'm going to have to let the boiler burn on the lowest setting all throughout the summer?  I was hoping to find a boiler that would start up on demand to provide hot water.
> ( I don't want to have to install massive LP tanks to accomplish this )  I just want to use my Stor zoned hot water heater.    Does anyone here have any suggestions for a good, economical, residential pellet boiler, or want to recommend what they are currently using and please include what you like and drawbacks, if any.  Thanks.



Consumption will be dictated by the load.  The Maxim does idle.  I don't run in the summer and don't think it would be practical or cost effective.


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## Como (Mar 4, 2011)

With Central Boilers the rule of thumb seems to be to divide their claims by 2.

A modern design should get somewhere close to 90%.

Begs the question what is your budget/load/self install or pay someone else.


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## donnied44 (Mar 5, 2011)

harttj said:
			
		

> Pel_Don said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## donnied44 (Mar 5, 2011)

I did I lousy job editing, but I was asking Harttj what he meant by " the maxim does idle"    

Does that mean the Maxim runs all the time, never quitting?   What do you call a system that turns itself on and off like and oil burner?


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## donnied44 (Mar 5, 2011)

mkling said:
			
		

> I bought my Pinnacle PB150 from Franks, it is a great unit that is very easy to operate and work on yourself which is very important to me. It really is a very simple machine that is easy to operate and maintain with good dealers and good factory support. I use it hooked up in a loop with my existing oil fired boiler so that during heating seasons I dial down the aquastat on the oil fired boiler and let the pellet boiler heat it and my house. The Pinnacle can heat DHW directly but I have never found a need for this in my configuration since the pellet boiler is constantly keeping its baby bro at 170+, so my instant DHW is sort of heated indirectly by the pellet boiler.  During the warmer months I shut down the pellet boiler and turn the aquastat on the oil fired boiler back up to provide DHW.  The only complaint I had about this boiler at first was that it was nearly impossible to clean the combustion fan without completely removing the housing from the boiler which also meant removing the chimney off of the boiler. Pinnacle has since redesigned the fan housing to have an easy to remove plate that has the impellers and motor attached to it; to take full advantage of this I would recommend that you put a twist lock plug on the power cable going to the combustion fan motor so it can be completely removed for cleaning. It used to take me a a full day to do a cleaning on this unit in order to dismantle everything, but now I spend two hours once a month to do a full cleaning. In terms of pellet usage, I use 5 tons/season on average for a 2000 sq ft. house. If there on average 120 heating days in a year then this averages out to be 2 bags/day, but there are very cold days in January where I will easily go through 4 bags in a day and then of course warmer days during the shoulder season where I will go through one bag in a day. The heat that this thing puts out is pretty amazing, as even on the coldest days my house never goes below 72 deg. This unit doesn't have a lot of the bells and whistles that the more expensive European models do but I also see this as somewhat of a benefit since when something goes wrong you will be able to fix it, kinda like working on an older model car versus a newer one. It is easily one of the best investments I have ever made as I am saving about 50% off of my yearly heating bill, so I should hit my payback point in a couple of years.


 The pinacle looks like a real nice boiler. Thanks for explaining everything.  Does the pinacle shut down completely and then restart itself?   How much did it cost you if you don't mind me asking?


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## mkling (Mar 5, 2011)

The Pinnacle doesn't have self ignition, it uses a pilot (idle) mode to maintain a flame.  There are two settings... one for 8 minutes or one for 16 minutes.  In each one the boiler feeds pellets for 2 minutes then "idles" for 6 or 14 minutes.  When the heat load increases and the internal temp drops the aquastat kicks the boiler into high burn mode.  The maxim is similar to this, which is why it probably isn't then best idea to run boilers like these all year non-stop.  Even when the boiler is just piloting all the time (low heat load) enough heat is being generated that eventually it will overheat unless a heat load is added.  Once shoulder season starts I generally have to shut off my PB150 some days otherwise it will just overheat and then shut down.  There are pellet boilers that have auto-ignition and shut down completely between burn cycles and these include the more expensive European models but there is also the Harman PB-105 that other people on this forum can speak about.  There is another thread about using pellet boilers as a sole source of heat over in the pellet mill and the general consensus is that it is best to have a dual system with an oil or other fossil fuel boiler as a backup, take a look as you might be interested in the discussion.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/72142/


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## mkling (Mar 5, 2011)

As far as cost, the Pinnacle boiler runs about $7k by itself (at least when I bought it), but then you have to tack on the install cost of the chimney, plumbing and electrical.  All said and done some somewhere between 9-10k and that was a few years ago to install it in a loop with my existing boiler.


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## Fsappo (Mar 5, 2011)

Still a 7295 retail on those.  The price hasnt gone up in a couple of years.  I hope they dont go up now that the poop has hit the fan over in Sandville.


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## Como (Mar 5, 2011)

Garn have just announced a steel surcharge, I am sure everybody else will follow.

Seems very odd not to have an automatic igniter on a Pellet Boiler, seems a common feature on much lower priced stoves and I would have thought it was more essential on a Boiler.


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## mkling (Mar 5, 2011)

A lot if not all of the really expensive European models do have an auto-igniter but the only lower priced unit that I know of that has it is the Harman PB-105.  Read up on that unit though and you will see that people have had lots of issues with the igniters and burn pots, and I think Harman has done a few design iterations to try and eliminate all the issues.  For me that is just another point of failure on a feature I don't really need for my usage.  Of course if it the sole source of heat year round then it is probably a necessity.  Also, on a stove the on/off cycling is much less so the whole concept is a little different.


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## harttj (Mar 5, 2011)

Pel_Don said:
			
		

> I did I lousy job editing, but I was asking Harttj what he meant by " the maxim does idle"
> 
> Does that mean the Maxim runs all the time, never quitting?   Wh
> at do you call a system that turns itself on and off like and oil burner?



When reaches set point still uses fuel to stay lit.  It has propane ignition and auto relight if goes out.


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## Como (Mar 6, 2011)

I have seen the Windhager and the Froling and a couple of others, not cheap. http://www.treco.co.uk/products/ if you want to see some others.

http://www.maineenergysystems.com/AutoPellet_Series_Boilers.htm This one is made in the US, no idea how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcOinrBkfcw The Endurance is a furnace, some posters in the Pellet forum have them. I think they are 4 or 5 grand. Something like that but a Boiler would be nice. If they are not working on it perhaps they should. US manufactured.


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## rowerwet (Mar 6, 2011)

it takes a lot of energy to get to the 700 plus degrees to make a wood pellet ignite, the auto relight system on the Maxim takes a bunch of propane to get the fire going, when the maxim is in idle it lets the pellets in the burn pot smolder, every so many seconds (you can adjust this, it is the first bar of LEDs on the controller) the auger turns for a second or so and the fan comes on to keep the fire from dying, if it does you have to go through the whole propane ignition sequence until the controller sees a temp rise in the water, this won't start until the boiler looses a good bit of water temp. the indoor pellet stoves use a ton of electricity to relight the fire each time it is needed as they are heating air to 1200 degrees to heat the pellets enough to light them. Any system that keeps the fire smoldering for long periods will build up a ton of creosote inside the fire box.
 Either way there is no good system to heat through the summer months, your best bet would be to get an electric or gas hot water heater with a sidearm HX, that way you only pay for gas or electric for a few short months a year.


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## Piker (Mar 6, 2011)

The froling p4 pellet boilers have auto ignite... and are installed with large buffer tanks so that frequent on/of cycling and the need for relighting are kept to a minumum.  It is possible to heat domestic hot water in the off season fairly effectively with one of these units. The use of lambda probes help increase burn efficiency as well.  As others have eluded to, they are not a cheap date... though these boilers are about as automatic as can be when installed with bulk pellet storage.

cheers


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## EcoHeat (Mar 7, 2011)

Fire Dog said:
			
		

> Does anyone here have any suggestions for a good, economical, residential pellet boiler, or want to recommend what they are currently using and please include what you like and drawbacks, if any.  Thanks.



EcoHeat Solutions' EcoBoilers haven't been mentioned in this thread, but are a good option.  The boilers are American made and competitively priced.  They can pay for themselves with fuel cost savings within a few years.   I have a biased opinion, but can comfortably say this is a solid, reliable heat source.  

The boiler and burner need to be cleaned weekly, and this takes about 15 minutes.  That's not such a big price to pay when weighed against the positives:  saving money on fuel costs and keeping heating dollars local. 

The storage units are sized right for most people.  The smaller bin holds 400 lbs of pellets, and the larger one holds half a ton.

Attached is a chart showing the savings that can be had by burning pellets instead of oil or propane.


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## musclecar joe (Mar 8, 2011)

Piker said:
			
		

> The froling p4 pellet boilers have auto ignite... and are installed with large buffer tanks so that frequent on/of cycling and the need for relighting are kept to a minumum.  It is possible to heat domestic hot water in the off season fairly effectively with one of these units. The use of lambda probes help increase burn efficiency as well.  As others have eluded to, they are not a cheap date... though these boilers are about as automatic as can be when installed with bulk pellet storage.
> 
> cheers




I have a question. With the use of the "buffer tank" I understand it provides a flywheel approach for the fire but, will this flywheel cause him to burn more volume of pellets? Or since it would just burn longer and less often will it burn the same amount? 

Musclecar joe


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## EcoHeat (Mar 8, 2011)

*Buffer tanks* allow the pellet burner to run longer, and at a higher power level.  This all helps optimize the efficiency of the system, and it will run cleaner, too.  These positives are countered by some higher thermal losses from the buffer tank, and the expense of the buffer tank and installation.  Probably long term, a buffer tank is a net positive.    

Some details:  when a good pellet burner operates, it runs through several phases... ignition, pre-op, full power, low power, and damping down.  The full power phase is the cleanest and most efficient.  Ignition is drawing electricity, so the fewer ignitions, the better.  The other phases are producing heat, but are not as efficiently as at full power.  So by running long stretches at full power, the burner is operating most efficiently.  Pellets consumption will be lower.


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## Piker (Mar 9, 2011)

Geo. said:
			
		

> *Buffer tanks* allow the pellet burner to run longer, and at a higher power level.  This all helps optimize the efficiency of the system, and it will run cleaner, too.  These positives are countered by some higher thermal losses from the buffer tank, and the expense of the buffer tank and installation.  Probably long term, a buffer tank is a net positive.
> 
> Some details:  when a good pellet burner operates, it runs through several phases... ignition, pre-op, full power, low power, and damping down.  The full power phase is the cleanest and most efficient.  Ignition is drawing electricity, so the fewer ignitions, the better.  The other phases are producing heat, but are not as efficiently as at full power.  So by running long stretches at full power, the burner is operating most efficiently.  Pellets consumption will be lower.



Could not have said it better myself.

cheers


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## WoodPorn (Mar 9, 2011)

Geo. said:
			
		

> *Buffer tanks* allow the pellet burner to run longer, and at a higher power level.  This all helps optimize the efficiency of the system, and it will run cleaner, too.  These positives are countered by some higher thermal losses from the buffer tank, and the expense of the buffer tank and installation.  Probably long term, a buffer tank is a net positive.
> 
> Some details:  when a good pellet burner operates, it runs through several phases... ignition, pre-op, full power, low power, and damping down.  The full power phase is the cleanest and most efficient.  Ignition is drawing electricity, so the fewer ignitions, the better.  The other phases are producing heat, but are not as efficiently as at full power.  So by running long stretches at full power, the burner is operating most efficiently.  Pellets consumption will be lower.



Geo, you out of Walpole?


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