# Quadrafire 1200 not cycling after startup.



## mctitan1975 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hey guys!,

I'm new to the forum and new to the world of pellet stoves.

I recently purchased a home with a quadrafire cb 1200 pellet insert. The manual is dated 2002 so I assume the stove is about 10 years old.

When I initially start the stove up it works fine. The blower starts, it feeds pellets and fires up. It starts blowing out heat just fine. Once the stove heats up the room to the thermostat setting it cycles off, but wont come back on again after the room temperature goes back down. If I come back several hours later and readjust the thermostat higher it will then go back on. I initially assumed it was a faulty themostat(older dial type), so I replaced it with a new digital thermostat. I also cleaned out the stove. But the problem still happens.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 6, 2013)

Not much to go on yet.  It could possibly be kicking out on over temperature and not from the thermostat shutting it down.  Next time you fire it up, watch the red call for heat light and see if the light goes out but the stove keeps feeding pellets.  Or conversely, see if the call light is still on when the stove shuts down.  Get back to us.


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## SwineFlue (Nov 6, 2013)

What setting is the stove on when this happens?   On low, my Quad will occasionally abort a restart... it lights up and then feeds for about 5 minutes, but shuts itself down because the stove didn't reach normal temperature in time.

Like  tjnamtiw  said, is the call light on when you get home?   Also, are there any unburned pellets in the burnpot?

My house also came with the stove and a 2002 manual.   Download a  manual from the Quadrafire web site: for my Castile model the old manual is pretty thin on troubleshooting, cleaning, and maintenance techniques.  The newer manual is much better.   (But I keep the old manual handy because they made several changes to the stove since mine was made.)


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## mralias (Nov 6, 2013)

Long shot but did you change the thermostat wire as well when you changed the thermostat? After the above suggestions are ruled out, try to put the jumper on and manually simulate the thermostat ie run it for a while, shut off and try a start up again to see if it does the same thing.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 6, 2013)

Swineflue is right about running on low.  My stoves will sometimes not even get enough vacuum to pull in the vacuum switch on low IF the hopper is low and it can pull air in that way.


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## Jaymaine34 (Nov 7, 2013)

I had a lfreind who just put in a stove and had a similar issue . Found 2 things that were causing it .
1. Swing set was set at + /- 3 
2. Programming on thermostat was as factory setting 
So what he felt was Long time waiting for the stove to fire was because there was no call for heat 
Adjusted swing to +\- 1.5 and set thermostat to his desired heating cycle not a problem since 
Not saying this is the issue but worth a look to rule it out 
Run all of mine on low 95% of the time have never had a misfire issue 
Agree with everyone above the call for heat light being off or on will be a big clue as to the issue


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 7, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I had a lfreind who just put in a stove and had a similar issue . Found 2 things that were causing it .
> 1. Swing set was set at + /- 3
> 2. Programming on thermostat was as factory setting
> So what he felt was Long time waiting for the stove to fire was because there was no call for heat
> ...


All good points.  Some thermostats don't just simply turn on and off at the swing settings, if they have them.  They actually have a setting of how many times in an hour the stove is allowed to run.  IMHO, this type of thermostat should not be used with pellet stoves.  I guess it's meant for some type of heater that shouldn't be short cycled, like a heat pump?  
Also, on your thermostat, make sure it's set to control a gas or oil heater, not a heat pump.


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys. I removed all of the old pellets from the previous owner and vacumed out the hopper. I had a lot of dust in it. I refilled it with the best pellets I could find and it seems to be working now.

Is this normal?

After the unit comes warms up the room to temperature, it stops feeding and the red then the green light goes out. I know this is normal. The blower keeps going, again I assume normal, but then the blower starts cycling on and off. First it will go off for a few seconds and then come back on for about half a minute. This keeps going on but the on time decreases while the off time increases. Just wasn't sure if this was normal or if the blower should run continuoulsy and then just shut off. It does this cycle for about 30 mins after it stops feeding pellets.

Thanks again


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## Bioburner (Nov 11, 2013)

I would start looking at replacing the snap switch. It should have a bigger swing between cycling the fan. Not a very big expense.


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## Jaymaine34 (Nov 11, 2013)

I assume we are talking about Shutdown . The blower should run until unit is cooled and turn off ( not off and on )


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## Bioburner (Nov 11, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> I assume we are talking about Shutdown . The blower should run until unit is cooled and turn off ( not off and on )


 Correct


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 11, 2013)

ok. speaking of the snapdiscs I know the stove is supposed to have 3. Number 1 and 2 on the left side panel and number 3 in the rear. For some reason i have a snap disc(snap switch) located between number 1 and 2. There are no wires connected to it. It is just screwed in like the others. Is this normal?


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 11, 2013)

My guess is someone was experimenting with placing perhaps the snap disc for the room fan in a hotter location to get the fan to turn on sooner.  I say that because that's what I did!  I searched around using a surface pyrometer to find the hottest spot and relocated the one I had.  Perhaps the 'extra' one is covering a hole...???


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 13, 2013)

Hey guys I am having my original issue again.

I turned the stove on last night and set the thermostst to 65 degrees. It fired up and I went to bed. I woke up and the temperature was 53. The stove hadnt kicked on all night and the red call light was on. After I pressed it the pellets fed and it fired up. Everything during initial fire looks good. Call light comes on, pellets feed, fire starts, green control light on, red control light on, convection blower starts, room comes up to temp, red light goes off, green light goes off. But unit still doesnt want to come back on after this.

An ebeay parts seller said its the thermocouple. Does this sound right?


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## DBCOOPER (Nov 13, 2013)

I think it's something with the thermocouple also. I would check the connections and the location in the sleeve and the sleeves position in the burn pot.


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## Jaymaine34 (Nov 13, 2013)

Could be ? Have you looked it over for cracks and propper placement ? Also as I read back I don't see what you are using for a thermostat ( brand ) I know you changed it .
In you manual there is a long explanation of how the thermocouple works . I hate to throw parts at things until I'm sure !
A digital volt meter will tell you for sure . On high it should be 30 milivolts (dc)  at a lower setting the milivolts will be less .
There are a few threads on here with step by step how to test . Sounding more and more like a controle issue to me when we take in how the blower was acting ! But again I would start to  test things one by one a ruling them out !
I know you hear it on here all the time , but the first thing I would do is clean that stove top to bottom ! 90% of the time when a freind calls me with a stove issue it's a cleaning issue and every time they assure me they just cleaned it ! Just saying !


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## altmartion (Nov 13, 2013)

mctitan1975 said:


> Hey guys I am having my original issue again.
> 
> I turned the stove on last night and set the thermostst to 65 degrees. It fired up and I went to bed. I woke up and the temperature was 53. The stove hadnt kicked on all night and the red call light was on. After I pressed it the pellets fed and it fired up. Everything during initial fire looks good. Call light comes on, pellets feed, fire starts, green control light on, red control light on, convection blower starts, room comes up to temp, red light goes off, green light goes off. But unit still doesnt want to come back on after this.
> 
> An ebeay parts seller said its the thermocouple. Does this sound right?


 is the light call for heat indicator on?


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 13, 2013)

yes it is. i push the reset button and it cycles fine.


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## altmartion (Nov 13, 2013)

you need to check all limits and snap disks. is the stove cool?


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 13, 2013)

Yes when I woke up this morning the stove was completely cold.


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## altmartion (Nov 13, 2013)

grab your meter and start checking all limits and snap disks that are in series with the safety system.


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 13, 2013)

ok, is there a thread on here that details how to do this?


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## DBCOOPER (Nov 13, 2013)

Next time it does it, unplug the stove for a few seconds and plug it back in and watch what it does without pressing the reset button.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 13, 2013)

My Castile would occasionally misfire the first year I had it.  I opened up the feed gate a little bit and no more misfires.  An occasional long pellet or two can bridge over the opening and prevent enough pellets to be fed on initial start up.  They may eventually get fed into the auger but by then not enough pellets have made it into the burn pot to sustain a fire.  

Since you're seeing the green and red indicator lights, your thermocouple is probably ok.  Your fan is coming on so that snap disc is good.  The safety snap disc must be good or you wouldn't have any power and the fire safety one in the auger/chute must be OK or you wouldn't be running.  Now several people have found rather loose connections at the snap discs so they take off the connector and GENTLY squeeze it so it fits more snugly.  That would be advisable to rule out an occasional disconnect. PLEASE do it with the stove disconnected.  hahaha


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## SwineFlue (Nov 14, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> Since you're seeing the green and red indicator lights, your thermocouple is probably ok. Your fan is coming on so that snap disc is good. The safety snap disc must be good or you wouldn't have any power and the fire safety one in the auger/chute must be OK or you wouldn't be running.


Agreed.

After a failure, what's in the burnpot?   Any unburned pellets?   Charred pellets?  It would really help if you could be present in the room to actually see a restart fail when the thermostat calls for heat.  You would be able to see which step in the startup process is failing.


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 14, 2013)

I watched it last night. I started it up and it made it through two complete cycles. on the third the room temp fell below the set temperature and the service call light came on and nothing.........but I did notive a light come on inside the control box. It looked either green or yellow, I cant be sure.....this model has the gray plastic control box, not the newer clear one. The red and green lights are on the outside top of the box. but this light was inside. I never noticied before.


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## mralias (Nov 14, 2013)

Look at these see if this helps you at all. Based on what you said, it looks like you don't get by step one when it fails. I'm thinking control box with intermittent problem. Hope I'm wrong.


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks. It looks like the control box to me too.
Any advice if I should pay a tech 80 bucks to come and test it or do I just get a control box and intall and hope for the best?

How hard is it to install?


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## mralias (Nov 14, 2013)

I have never installed one yet. Perhaps someone else can answer that but ebay has one for $259. Not sure that testing is going to re-create the issue you are having. Looking at mine it looks like just a plug in type install, nothing fancy. 
If all else fails, pull yours out and then re-install too see if the same issue persists. Perhaps something is loose. PLEASE MAKE SURE TO UNPLUG THE STOVE FIRST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRV7000-205...6?pt=US_Replacement_Parts&hash=item4d1107fcb2


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 14, 2013)

That amber light means that the thermocouple is bad or going bad.  That would make sense for your occasional shutdowns.  It must be an intermittent open.  Order a new thermocouple tout suite.
Swineflue had the correct advice to watch and see what happens.  Thumbs up!

Remove the thermocouple from the tube and take a look at the  end to see if the two wires are separated or barely hanging on at the end.


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## mctitan1975 (Nov 15, 2013)

The thermocouple looks joined at the end. Is there a way I can test it to see if it's the problem? Just trying to avoid replacing both the thermocouple and control box.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 15, 2013)

Yes, you can test it by disconnecting the leads and putting a voltmeter on the leads.  Then heat the tip with a match or heat gun and see if you get a reading.  Set the meter on the millivolt scale.  You should see at least 30mVDC.  Wiggle the wires around as you're doing this to see if the reading drops, suggesting an intermittent open.
I'm almost positive that the amber light inside the box that you saw says the thermocouple was bad at that time.  Maybe one of the tech's can confirm this.

Perhaps it was just a bad connection.  Make sure everything is snug.

You could also UNPLUG the stove and then remove the control box, clean the contacts with a pencil eraser, and reinsert it.  Then plug it back in.  Could just be a bad contact there.  Many problems on here have been solved by doing just that.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 15, 2013)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/quadra-fire-pellet-stove-bad-thermocoupler.56846/

Look at reply #13.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 15, 2013)

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/136688/Quadra-Fire-Cb1200-B.html?page=27#manual

Look at page 27 symptoms.  You don't have to download the manual.  

''Check connections on thermocouple or
replace if defective.
A flashing yellow light on the control box
indicates a problem with the thermocouple.''


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## RockyMtnHigh (Nov 15, 2013)

If you can re-create the problem every time, it is the control box.... If it is intermittent, there is something else going on. I would lean towards a worn out snap disk. Either the one on the feed tube or the one that senses the hopper....


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 17, 2013)

RockyMtnHigh said:


> If you can re-create the problem every time, it is the control box.... If it is intermittent, there is something else going on. I would lean towards a worn out snap disk. Either the one on the feed tube or the one that senses the hopper....


IMHO, this is a great way to sell a LOT of control boxes!


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## mralias (Nov 17, 2013)

RockyMtnHigh said:


> If you can re-create the problem every time, it is the control box.... If it is intermittent, there is something else going on. I would lean towards a worn out snap disk. Either the one on the feed tube or the one that senses the hopper....


I did not know the cb1200i had a snap disk on the feed tube or the hopper. Anyway, I just hope the story has a happy ending the suspense is killing me.


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## Jaymaine34 (Nov 17, 2013)

This is why I went with the same stove x3 . Very easy to interchange parts and trouble shoot . Maybe not the most cost affective way . But it allows me not to throw parts at something until I'm sure ! That being said in 8 years I've only had one controle board go and that was under warranty .
Wishing you the best of luck with this and I'm very interested in the outcome !


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 17, 2013)

Jaymaine34 said:


> This is why I went with the same stove x3 . Very easy to interchange parts and trouble shoot . Maybe not the most cost affective way . But it allows me not to throw parts at something until I'm sure ! That being said in 8 years I've only had one controle board go and that was under warranty .
> Wishing you the best of luck with this and I'm very interested in the outcome !


Which does bring up another possibility.  Is there anyone else in your area that has the same stove?  If so, they might be willing to swap out the control box, which is a two minute operation, just to see if it fixes the problem.  Your service guy could also do that in the hopes of selling a new box.  That would rule out that possibility once and for all.
If it were me, I'd still be researching the best price for a new thermocouple because of that amber light symptom you spoke of.  Besides, it would be a good thing to have one on the shelf as insurance.  There are a few dealers on here that, perhaps, could give you a price via private message.


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## RockyMtnHigh (Nov 17, 2013)

Ah, I didn't catch the amber light but yeah, that is definitely a thermocouple issue. I shouldn't message board and drink beer lol. Sorry chaps


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 17, 2013)

Let's set aside the indications of a bad thermocouple and analyze what other symptoms you spoke of early on.
1. Pellets were still in the stove from the previous owner and there was a lot of dust (fines) in the bottom of the hopper
2. The room convection fan cycled on and off during shutdown.

1. The old pellets could have swelled up from humidity during the non-use time and clogged the auger.  Also, the abundance of fines could also restrict the rotation of the auger.  Our stoves have the habit of running the auger backwards if it is restricted or if the capacitor that is in the auger motor circuit goes bad.  This means that you should really pull the auger and motor assembly out and make sure that it can rotate freely.  It only involves a few screws and isn't difficult.  Also, if you find no buildup in the auger tube, then for about $12, you can get a new capacitor that fits in-line with the connector for the motor. This would explain your occasional failures to feed enough pellets to keep the fire going.

2. If the fan is cycling on and off at shutdown, it could be two things.  Either the snap disc is faulty OR the stove has been overfired and it has a lot of residual heat.  The fan runs and cools down the surface where the snap disc is located, but the extra heat built up in the stove rewarms that part where the snap disc is located and it turns the fan on again. Your average flame height on HIGH should be about 6-8" high.

Just two more thoughts of things that haven't been mentioned.


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## tjnamtiw (Nov 17, 2013)

RockyMtnHigh said:


> Ah, I didn't catch the amber light but yeah, that is definitely a thermocouple issue. I shouldn't message board and drink beer lol. Sorry chaps


Why not?  Crown Royal and Jim Beam don't help either......


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## Jaymaine34 (Nov 17, 2013)

tjnamtiw said:


> Which does bring up another possibility.  Is there anyone else in your area that has the same stove?  If so, they might be willing to swap out the control box, which is a two minute operation, just to see if it fixes the problem.  Your service guy could also do that in the hopes of selling a new box.  That would rule out that possibility once and for all.
> If it were me, I'd still be researching the best price for a new thermocouple because of that amber light symptom you spoke of.  Besides, it would be a good thing to have one on the shelf as insurance.  There are a few dealers on here that, perhaps, could give you a price via private message.


That's a great idea if I lived closer I'd be more than happy to do it just to see . Maybe find a dealer with a good return policy . Be honest with what your doing ( never know ) this time of year they are so busy they maybe willing to let you try


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