# Code says no wood burner in garage



## BillsWS

Had a home inspection today.  I mentioned to the home inspector that I planned to put a gasifier in the garage and he said code changed about a year ago that you can't have any wood burning appliance in your (I assume attached only) garage.  I am in Michigan.  Have you seen this where you are?


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## BrotherBart

Been code for places that adopt the BOCA International Building
Code for a long time. Attached or not.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe...

Install properly after he leaves, be careful, you should be ok... Your decision


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## BrotherBart

Well, unless you want to insure the joint.

http://woodgasification.wordpress.c...-because-of-wood-stove-in-garage-fire-hazard/


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## Frozen Canuck

BB is right. Dont violate code & give your insurer an instant out in the event of a claim. Btw the insurer will happily keep all the premiums you paid.


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## stee6043

I think it's been this way in Michigan for quite some time, certainly more than a year.  Perhaps your inspector just became aware of it. 

Walling off a section and installing an exterior man-door seem to be the easiest way around this while still maintaining insurability...


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## Don2222

Hello

No need to violate code here!
What is the definition of a garage from the OnLine Merriam Webster dictionary?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/garage

Definition
Garage = a shelter or repair shop for automotive vehicles

If you do not store or repair an automotive vehicle, then it is not a garage and a wood stove is just fine!

Having a garage door does not make it into a garage. You can put up a temp wall in front of the garage door, if the inspector does not like it!


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## ewdudley

Separate from the fire safety angle, and although smoke wasn't a problem, I ended up building a wall to make a separate boiler room just to contain the dust from cleaning the boiler, and dust from the wood itself.


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## Ashful

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> 
> No need to violate code here!
> What is the definition of a garage from the OnLine Merriam Webster dictionary?
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/garage
> 
> Definition
> Garage = a shelter or repair shop for automotive vehicles
> 
> If you do not store or repair an automotive vehicle, then it is not a garage and a wood stove is just fine!
> 
> Having a garage door does not make it into a garage. You can put up a temp wall in front of the garage door, if the inspector does not like it!


 

I suspect BOCA has their own definition of a garage, which supercedes Merriam Webster.  I did a quick search, which turned up nothing obvious, but I am sure there is a section of the code for definitions.  Exactly what constitutes a "garage," with respect to the code, is certainly defined there.


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## Don2222

Joful said:


> I suspect BOCA has their own definition of a garage, which supercedes Merriam Webster. I did a quick search, which turned up nothing obvious, but I am sure there is a section of the code for definitions. Exactly what constitutes a "garage," with respect to the code, is certainly defined there.


 

Also the way the inspector interprets the code, which is another item to contend with!


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## Don2222

Joful said:


> I suspect BOCA has their own definition of a garage, which supercedes Merriam Webster. I did a quick search, which turned up nothing obvious, but I am sure there is a section of the code for definitions. Exactly what constitutes a "garage," with respect to the code, is certainly defined there.


 

Also why not just got to the NFPA web site and setup a free account to sign up for free access to NFPA 1 the code that covers property safety?

NFPA - free access to view National Fire Potection Association ---- Codes & Standards Free Access
http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages

What is NFPA 1?
NFPA 1, Fire Code, advances fire and life safety for the public and first responders as well as property protection by providing a comprehensive, integrated approach to fire code regulation and hazard management. It addresses all the bases with extracts from and references to more than 130 NFPA® codes and standards including such industry benchmarks as NFPA 101, NFPA 54, NFPA 58, NFPA 30, NFPA 13, NFPA 25, and NFPA 72. Official document scope


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## arbutus

Does the NFPA cover the required distance between a detached boiler building / woodshed and a dwelling?

I recently called the Michigan mechanical code department and confirmed that a wood boiler cannot go in a garage, but I could install it in a shed if I observed clearances and required air volume and ventilation requirements.


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## BrotherBart

Look for NFPA 12.2.3 and 12.2.4.


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## heaterman

Always been that way as long as I have been involved in this biz. No wood fired equipment in any space where flammable liquids may be stored or a vehicle may be housed. Note the word "may". I have had numerous local inspectors tell me that if it is possible to get a vehicle, and I mean ANY vehicle, into the space in question, you may not install any wood burning equipment.
That being said, I ran a wood burning hot air furnace in my garage for probably 7-8 years in the late 70's early 80's (back in the day....) with nary a problem and my car was parked only 4 feet away from it. Ventilation is key and I'm not saying I would do it again. Too many things have changed in the insurance industry and on the code/inspection side of the coin.


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## arbutus

Heck, you can drag a moped into your living room, and most people have some cooking oil in the kitchen.
I'm curious what your reply was, and if the inspector made you tear out an overhead door.


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## heaterman

arbutus said:


> Heck, you can drag a moped into your living room, and most people have some cooking oil in the kitchen.
> I'm curious what your reply was, and if the inspector made you tear out an overhead door.


 

A few years ago we installed a heating system for a lady who had begun construction of a garage in Grand Traverse County and then decided to add a second floor living quarters and finish the ground floor level for rental or in law space. The inspector would not let us put the boiler (gas) on the lower level without it being in a separate room that was non-accessible from the main area. The only way you could tell it was originally intended to be a garage was the overhead door. The floor is finished, curtains in the windows, sofa, full bath, kitchen area, dining area....the works. Looks just like you walked into any other house except for the overhead door. Rather than take out the O/H door the owner elected to go with the separate room with double 5/8" drywall on both sides and just run with it that way. The access to that room is via a door not located in the former "garage".
It was really a pretty painless way to circumvent the problem when it came down to the bottom line and it worked out well.


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## BrotherBart

A few have been known to build permanent concrete pylons in front of the roll up door and get passed on inspection. Pre-agreed with the inspectors.


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## Don2222

BrotherBart said:


> A few have been known to build permanent concrete pylons in front of the roll up door and get passed on inspection. Pre-agreed with the inspectors.


 

Is there any re-bar in the concrete?


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## BrotherBart

Don2222 said:


> Is there any re-bar in the concrete?


 

Bumpers don't care.


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## Don2222

No but it is alot easier to knock it down after the inspector is gone. LOL


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## BoilerMan

Don2222 said:


> No but it is alot easier to knock it down after the inspector is gone. LOL


 
I knew that was where that was going............





btw, I once worked in a commercial building that had been converted from a residence.  The over head door had been framed in and was still over the suspended ceiling!  Take out a tile and there is a garage door there opener and all LOL. 

As far as getting a vehicle in a place, I can remove the glass from my sliding glass door and get a car in through there if I really wanted to.  And I have stored my motorcycle in the boiler room before, it will go through a standard 36" door, outside access or not. 

TS


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## WireNut

This is an interesting thread to run into.  I was looking to put my new wood boiler in the garage, but now it looks like I can't do that.  I'm not overly worried about the insurance angle, it's a detached garage and I'm 4 doors down from the firehouse.  I don't want to get shut down by a building inspector because of
*"NY Code - Section 27-848.08: Wood burning appliances: Installation" *

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/27/1/14/19/27-848.08

It does indeed say I can't install in the garage.  What I'm wondering is if a wood boiler is a "wood burning appliance".  The first line in the law says:
"Scope. Wood burning appliances include factory-built fireplaces, fireplace stoves, room heaters, and fireplace inserts."

A wood boiler is none of those, and it would seem is therefore not covered under the law here. I doubt I'll get an ok from the building inspector if I ask him, and I wouldn't blame him for covering his own butt by saying no on something he's unsure of. Does anyone have any experience on a wood boiler in a garage in NY state?


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## curtis

I just got done talking to my local inspector about putting my garn in a pole barn that would have a garage door on it. I told him the pole barn will be just for the boiler and wood storeage and he said no problem. I asked what about the garage door and he said that is fine, it will be considered a mechanical building.


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## Ashful

WireNut said:


> TWhat I'm wondering is if a wood boiler is a "wood burning appliance". The first line in the law says:
> "Scope. Wood burning appliances include factory-built fireplaces, fireplace stoves, room heaters, and fireplace inserts."
> 
> A wood boiler is none of those, and it would seem is therefore not covered under the law here.


 

It says "include(s)", not "is limited to."  If they said "Wood burning appliances are factory-built fireplaces...," then maybe you'd have a leg to stand on.

Things I like include wood stoves.  That doesn't mean I don't like beer.


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## CTFIRE

Guys quoting NFPA, BOCA, or IBC is missing the point as to what year your local jurisdiction uses. One State might use 2006 version of a particular NFPA code and the 2009 version of another. The other issue with NFPA is that the code can allow something in one section, but take it away in another. From a practical stand point, the central issue with garages is the storage of gasoline and/or vehicles/equipment that uses gasoline. Wood burning devices create an open flame ignition source for these vapors. If you are not a code enforcer, be careful on your interpretation. Also don't rely on message board for insurance contract interpretation. Be safe and do your research as to what is allowed in your local jurisdiction.


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## WireNut

CTFIRE said:


> Also don't rely on message board for insurance contract interpretation. Be safe and do your research as to what is allowed in your local jurisdiction.


 
Definitely, I'm just going to put it in the basement in place of my old woodstove.  Only problem  for me is the clearance above the boiler in the basement will only be 12", and the manual says 24".  I'm installing the same boiler you have, the 140.

Of course, I could always build a building around it outside....talk about scope creep.


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## flyingcow

My boiler is in my old garage, reclassified as a wood storage facility.

These rules/laws/ ins requirements are for a good reason. If you spill, or a car/lawn mower leaks gas and the fumes hit the open flame burning device, it won't go well.

The ins co has no prblem with you putting a wood boiler in your basement, with no fire rated sheet rock, etc. But initaully they had  a problem with in my unattched garage. Didn't make sense at first.


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## quietindependent

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread.  Very interesting.  A few q's if I may:  Why is inspector/insurance company fine with a separate building for boiler if that building may also be used to store compact tractor, log splitter, etc?  Is it just because it is detached?  What if my attached garage is sprinklered?  Can I put a boiler in it then?


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## WireNut

quietindependent said:


> I'm glad I stumbled across this thread.  Very interesting.  A few q's if I may:  Why is inspector/insurance company fine with a separate building for boiler if that building may also be used to store compact tractor, log splitter, etc?  Is it just because it is detached?  What if my attached garage is sprinklered?  Can I put a boiler in it then?



For your first question...I would guess it's because they have to draw a line somewhere...I can store gasoline in my basement or even in my living space....I would guess its because a garage's intent is yo store power equipment and vehicles.

For the second...I would ask your building inspector.  I asked mine and its just a no for anything that has an open flame in a space that traditionally stores gas or gas powered equipment (like a shed).


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## stee6043

quietindependent said:


> I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Very interesting. A few q's if I may: Why is inspector/insurance company fine with a separate building for boiler if that building may also be used to store compact tractor, log splitter, etc? Is it just because it is detached? What if my attached garage is sprinklered? Can I put a boiler in it then?


 
I'm guessing that sprinklers would have very little impact on whether or not this type of thing would fly for an inspector/insurance co.  Sprinklers are only going to activate after something bad has already happened.  There will still be property loss inside the structure since the fire has already "started" at that point, particularly if it's an explosion of some sort.

'Round these parts residential sprinkler systems are still very rare.  Some insurance companies still falsely believe they present more of a liability than protection (leaks, weater damage, etc and so on).


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## Ashful

stee6043 said:


> 'Round these parts residential sprinkler systems are still very rare. Some insurance companies still falsely believe they present more of a liability than protection (leaks, weater damage, etc and so on).


 

Falsely? I had always heard that was the case, and it makes sense. I've known a few snowbirds who've had these things leak or burst while they're out of state, and I've yet to meet anyone who's had their house saved by one. Not saying they don't work, but that there's just so few opportunities for them to do their thing, and infinite opportunity for them to leak.

I've seen many of these systems plumbed in PVC, which really gives me the heebie jeebies, particularly when you note the poor workmanship in aligning and cementing the fittings.


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## stee6043

Joful said:


> Falsely? I had always heard that was the case, and it makes sense. I've known a few snowbirds who've had these things leak or burst while they're out of state, and I've yet to meet anyone who's had their house saved by one. Not saying they don't work, but that there's just so few opportunities for them to do their thing, and infinite opportunity for them to leak.
> 
> I've seen many of these systems plumbed in PVC, which really gives me the heebie jeebies, particularly when you note the poor workmanship in aligning and cementing the fittings.


 
Eventually these systems will become building code in all states...eventually.  Properly installed with the proper CPVC and associated fittings they should be no more likely to fail than any other residential plumbing appliance.  NFPA hasn't really started their full court press on these systems yet, but they will.  It's pretty astonishing the difference sprinklers can make in a fire.  It's also astonishing how fast something like a couch can go up in flames.  There are some pretty eye opening videos on youtube showing such things.

These systems are intended to protect life first, not property.  That being said, repairing water damage from a single sprinkler head activating is vastly less costly than rebuilding an entire home.  Eventually insurance companies will come around and begin requiring them on new construction.  It's so cheap to do in new houses I'm actually shocked it's not already code everywhere...


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## Ashful

stee6043 said:


> Properly installed with the proper CPVC and associated fittings they should be no more likely to fail than any other residential plumbing appliance.


 

Your statement is very carefully worded, but I've not been in a new house in which all systems were properly installed.  If you've seen one, please send photos.  As to "more likely to fail than any other residential plumbing appliance," the eventuality is that they will all fail.  The possible difference between a sprinkler system hidden in an attic space and your bathroom sink, is whether you notice the problem before damage occurs.

I'm actually not against residential sprinkler systems, and have debated myself whether to install one.  I'm just playing devil's advocate, as there are definitely two sides to this proverbial coin.


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## stee6043

Joful said:


> Your statement is very carefully worded, but I've not been in a new house in which all systems were properly installed. If you've seen one, please send photos. As to "more likely to fail than any other residential plumbing appliance," the eventuality is that they will all fail. The possible difference between a sprinkler system hidden in an attic space and your bathroom sink, is whether you notice the problem before damage occurs.
> 
> I'm actually not against residential sprinkler systems, and have debated myself whether to install one. I'm just playing devil's advocate, as there are definitely two sides to this proverbial coin.


 
Ohh I agree 100%.  I've seen some very, very nicely done systems that surely appear as though they'll outlive a stickbuilt house.  But I'm sure there are some really nasty installs out there too.  And then you have the likelhood of the DIYer giving it a go.  So yes, I can agree, I'm sure there are systems out there that will cause problems eventually. 

And to your point the fact that the systems are, by their nature, running in the ceiling/attic they surely could do more damage should they fail when compared to the main floor mounted sink/toilet.  If and when these systems become code they will have to be installed by specially permitted plumbers trained in fire protection.  This...I would hope....should help control the quality on the install.

If I lived in a warm climate I would have cobbled together my own system by now.  The components are readily available and really quite affordable.  Unfortunately, in cold climates the attic/freeze issue is a big one.  I'd have to do a lot of work up there to be comfortable that the fire protection lines would never freeze....


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## quietindependent

Thanks all for the replies.  Great food for thought.  Appreciate it.  My build is still a couple of years away, so doing my research during the plan/design phase.  I'd rather not have the wood in the home because of the dirt and/or bugs that tend to come with, but I don't want to have to go outside when its 30 below zero either.  Decisions...decisions...


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## Ashful

quietindependent said:


> Thanks all for the replies. Great food for thought. Appreciate it. My build is still a couple of years away, so doing my research during the plan/design phase. I'd rather not have the wood in the home because of the dirt and/or bugs that tend to come with, but I don't want to have to go outside when its 30 below zero either. Decisions...decisions...


 

Are you set on a boiler, or are you considering wood stoves, as well?  By, "I'd rather not have the wood in the home," do you mean storage or usage?

I don't know much about OWB's (actually, I know nothing beyond the translation of the acronym), but we've had many OWB burners come thru this forum, and the amount of wood they consume to heat relatively small spaces is simply astounding.  I'm talking about numbers on the order of 20 cords, to heat a space which might take an EPA wood stover 3 - 4 cords.  I remember figuring the net heating efficiency achieved by one OWB in particular, and it was close to 30%.  So, if you're on the fence between woodstove and boiler (whether outdoor or indoor), fuel requirements may be a big consideration.


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