# GARN EXPERTS



## 2.beans (Nov 8, 2012)

i bought an old garn that needs a little work. i believe its a whs 2500, mid 80's. it looks different then the new ones but its a garn. looking for input for any improvements that i can make as i overhaul it before i put it in service.


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## heaterman (Nov 8, 2012)

Does it have the air nozzle in the middle of the loading door? That would make it mid-late 80's.

There's really not a lot to go wrong with a Garn but you could start here......

1. If it's been sitting around for a while it might be wise to give it a good power wash inside the tank to check for any pitting or scale.
2. pop off the flue tube cleanout covers and have a look. Get them cleaned up if they need it.
3. Check the door gasket and door adjustment
4. If I were you I probably just go ahead and replace the wind up timer and the relay in the control box.
5. Check the low water float switch to make sure it functions and will not let the motor come on if the water level is low.
6. Pull the motor and check the blower wheel to see if it is distorted. They are made to purposely fail under extreme conditions to snuff out a runaway condition and i have seen a couple that have done what they were supposed to do. (They come apart at flue temps over 1000*F)
7. If the inside was dirty or it had been sitting for a while, I'd probably get in touch with the factory and order up their pre clean and chem treatment program. Send in a sample of your fill water and have "Chemical Mike" at Precision Water Treatment do a workup for you. (included in the treatment program) After you get it cleaned and flushed out, add the chem treatment they provide and let 'er rip!

I really don't know how long one of those things will last given decent water chemistry and maintenance. I have personally serviced several dating from the early 80's. Pushing 30 years old.

Good luck with your project!

You can still get most parts for it here.          http://shop.garn.com/


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## Gasifier (Nov 8, 2012)

Cool. How did you come across a used Garn? And do you have a pic? What kind of shape is it in?


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## 2.beans (Nov 8, 2012)

the bottom of the tank is soft. leaked from the outside in. so im replacing the bottom of the tank. when i have it opened up im going to clean it up. it has the control box that has sensors at the top of the tank, bottom exhaust and outside, but no low water sensor.


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## 2.beans (Nov 8, 2012)

Gasifier said:


> Cool. How did you come across a used Garn? And do you have a pic? What kind of shape is it in?


pretty good shape. found it on craigslist in MN. 3000 miles later.


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## 2.beans (Nov 8, 2012)

heaterman,  it does have the air nozzle in the middle of the door. i was wondering if thats a downfall?


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## heaterman (Nov 8, 2012)

That's early to mid 80's vintage. The major issue with that style is that the door or parts for it are no longer available, at least as far as I know. You can get the tadpole gaskets.
The "draft box" on top of the door on those old beasties is usually found to be out of commission. It had a damper in it that diverted most of the airflow to either the nozzle in the center of the door or to all the holes along the outer perimeter of it. The assumption was that the user would allow the fire to get going with the air diverted to the nozzle in the middle of the door at the start of the fire and then move the damper to the secondary position after things got cooking. Worked good if actually used that way but most users just neglected it and the damper wound up becoming non functional because they were never moved. I would bet yours will be in that condition also.

I know a couple guys that cut out the bottom of the tank and welded in a new sheet. It's just regular mild steel......seems like it was 1/4" material. Both are still using them.

Here's the parts that you can get yet for it.  http://shop.garn.com/garn-model-2500-1985-1988/

The actual model/serial number were on an adhesive backed aluminum tag located on the inner surface of the blower mounting area. We ran across serial number 29 and 44 last year and got both of them up and running for a guy on a dairy farm up here. They were both 1500's. We had to get a new inner door ring fabbed up by a local metal shop but other than that they were good to go.


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

2.beans said:


> pretty good shape. found it on craigslist in MN. 3000 miles later.


 
Nice find 2.beans. I hope it works out well for you. When do you plan to have it up and running? Are you shooting for this heating season?


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

i was checking out the draft box last night. it does move but not all the way. pretty sure its saveable. as for the serial number i cant find it. the tag is there but no serial number. id like to find it just to know what it is.im guessing its a 2500 just because of its size. as for putting it in service im going to wait until next year. one more year with the seton


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## avc8130 (Nov 9, 2012)

We gotta know...what did it cost?

ac


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## Jim K in PA (Nov 9, 2012)

Great find 2 Beans.  I am sure it was worth the trip.


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

Jim K in PA said:


> Great find 2 Beans. I am sure it was worth the trip.


i hope so. do you ever need to get in the access hole? just curious on how high i should have the roof.


avc8130 said:


> We gotta know...what did it cost?
> 
> ac


so i dont get bashed what would think its worth?


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## avc8130 (Nov 9, 2012)

2.beans said:


> i hope so. do you ever need to get in the access hole? just curious on how high i should have the roof.
> 
> so i dont get bashed what would think its worth?


 
I honestly don't know.  They are quite pricey new.  $15k I believe. I've never seen a used one for sale.  This one looks like a bit of a project, so I assume it was "cheap".

ac


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

Oh what the hell. I will take a stab at it. Well. Nice gassification boiler with storage included. Older model that needs work. Transporting. $ Etc. But a new one would cost you dearly. I would guess it would be worth it for you to pay $4000.00. Then put a little work and time into it. And have a nice set up for $5-6,000. Considering a little risk involved. And as you all know, I am an expert in the heating field.  And I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So, just throwing that out there. Okay. You can stop laughing now.


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

anyone else before i hang myself?


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

2.beans. I have about $14000 into my system. What say you?!


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## BoilerMan (Nov 9, 2012)

I'd say $2-3K in the boiler & gas, travel time is free .  I bought my boiler on CL and traveled 1500 miles for it.

TS


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

i got this with it. four of us could not lift it.


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

2.beans said:


> i got this with it. four of us could not lift it.


 
 What the hell is that? A heat exchanger?


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

Gasifier said:


> What the hell is that? A heat exchanger?


 
Okay. You got a wicked deal on this whole thing didn't you. Like the guy who got two boilers for free! Okay, maybe not that cheap. But you got a hell of a deal, didn't you?


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

Gasifier said:


> What the hell is that? A heat exchanger?


yeah its a big flat plate heat exchanger. about four feet tall. paid 2k for the boiler and plate, 1k for fuel, room and food door to door. figuring $500 for material to repair it. TS nailed it! gives me excuse to put a much needed addition onto my shop.


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## Gasifier (Nov 9, 2012)

Nice find 2.beans. Great for you! That is awesome. I hope you can get her up and running for that little and with little trouble. Keep us posted, with plenty of pics of course. When do you start the repair? That sounds like a great winter project. Do you have a shed or garage to do the work in on her?


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

plenty of room in my shop. i have a buddy that can roll the plate to match the curve of the tank tig it in and its good as new, kind of. ill take pictures of the whole process. more garn input would be great.


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## wardk (Nov 9, 2012)

Gasifier said:


> Oh what the hell. I will take a stab at it. Well. Nice gassification boiler with storage included. Older model that needs work. Transporting. $ Etc. But a new one would cost you dearly. I would guess it would be worth it for you to pay $4000.00. Then put a little work and time into it. And have a nice set up for $5-6,000. Considering a little risk involved. And as you all know, I am an expert in the heating field.  And I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So, just throwing that out there. Okay. You can stop laughing now.


I just finished "maybe" a Garn  install about 25k, it was worth it , 2 beans looks the same any thing less is a good deal.


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## BoilerMan (Nov 9, 2012)

Do I get a prize?  I knew that if you went that far to get it it must have been a great deal!  That is ONE MONSTER OF A PLATE EXCHANGER!  Wow I should say that again!  And some big copper to boot.  I love copper, no explosion from heat posts like with pex.  I'm looking forward to pics of the repair.  I'll let real Garn users post now, had to get that out.

TS


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## 2.beans (Nov 9, 2012)

Taylor Sutherland said:


> Do I get a prize? I knew that if you went that far to get it it must have been a great deal! That is ONE MONSTER OF A PLATE EXCHANGER! Wow I should say that again! And some big copper to boot. I love copper, no explosion from heat posts like with pex. I'm looking forward to pics of the repair. I'll let real Garn users post now, had to get that out.
> 
> TS


thank you, but sorry no prize.


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## heaterman (Nov 10, 2012)

Gasifier said:


> What the hell is that? A heat exchanger?


 

That is a very large plate and frame heat exchanger. Looks like it might be a DeLaval. I think that MR 2Beans will have no trouble maintaining very close approach temps.


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## 2.beans (Nov 10, 2012)

the exchanger is a "mueller". when you say "very close approach temperatures" your meaning each side of exchanger will be very close to equal. one side being the pressurized and the other side being open.


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## Frozen Canuck (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes 2 beans. You will be able to get endless hot water (DHW) with that exchanger for sure. Something that large should function just like an instantaneous gas fired water heater.
So if you have 4 full baths, a dishwasher & clothes washer...well then all the ladies in your house wil be very. Endles showers/baths etc.
Pretty sure they will hold a vote & make the dishes & laundry your job though...sorry about the bad news.
Btw nice find, good luck & have fun with the project.


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## TCaldwell (Nov 11, 2012)

Great Find, but now is the time to give this boiler o2 control!


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## 2.beans (Nov 11, 2012)

TCaldwell said:


> Great Find, but now is the time to give this boiler o2 control!


im listening


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## allan (Nov 11, 2012)

MR 2Beans, you will not regret buying that Garn. i_n my humble opinion, _there is nothing simpler than a Garn and the bigger the better. With the storage concept on the Garn, you can't oversize the system. The bigger the storage the less you have to think about it. I built a 3000 gal system for myself and a 6000 gal system for my brother-in-law. If I were to redo mine, it would be 6000 gallons. .


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## allan (Nov 11, 2012)

When you hookup your boiler, add an exhaust temp guage just after the exhaust exits the boiler. i added a turbulator to my last pass, a suggestion from Tom Caldwell, and now i have exhaust temps exiting the boiler at about 250-300 F. I would love to see Tom's O2 system, but I believe there is deminishing returns when your exhaust temps are already so low.


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## TCaldwell (Nov 11, 2012)

2Beans, click on my name in the avatar, click on information and you will find my garn, if you want to talk further give me a call tonight.


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## S.Whiplash (Nov 11, 2012)

Quite the heat exchanger!  Every once in awhile I run into this size of plate heat exchangers at farm auctions.  Any disadvantage to using an industrial sized heat exchanger in a residential application?


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## 2.beans (Nov 12, 2012)

S.Whiplash said:


> Quite the heat exchanger! Every once in awhile I run into this size of plate heat exchangers at farm auctions. Any disadvantage to using an industrial sized heat exchanger in a residential application?


i took it out a house so im assuming it worked. i cant see any reason that it wouldnt. probably  the only reason you dont see them in more houses is cost. no need to oversize the exchanger if you dont have to.  this boiler started its life in a light house so im guessing thats where the exchanger came from as well.


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## BHetrick10 (Nov 12, 2012)

It appears that the circ pump is cast steal as well as some parts on the exchanger.  I thought that was a no no on Garns since they are an open system?  I am hoping to soon plumb my Garn up and was under the impression that the circs should be SS or bronze.  I figured it that was the case I would by a HX and keep the load side of things pressurized and use reg circs, and SS on my primary loop.


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## 2.beans (Nov 12, 2012)

BHetrick10 said:


> It appears that the circ pump is cast steal as well as some parts on the exchanger. I thought that was a no no on Garns since they are an open system? I am hoping to soon plumb my Garn up and was under the impression that the circs should be SS or bronze. I figured it that was the case I would by a HX and keep the load side of things pressurized and use reg circs, and SS on my primary loop.


The GARN is all steel so with properly treated water you shouldnt have an issue with cast pumps or black iron pipe. as for the exchanger its all stainless. If domestic hot water then you would need stainless or bronze. [Or hot tub pool ect]


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## heaterman (Nov 12, 2012)

That heat exchanger will basically give you a 0* approach temp if you circulate enough fluid from the source side of the system. [the Garn]  The Mueller and DeLaval I mentioned are virtually identical and that size unit probably came off a dairy farm and had maybe 30-50 GPM of cow temp milk on one side and the same amount of well water or chilled water going through the other. They are made to cool the milk in one pass so they have tremendous capacity to move heat. 
The steel/iron body pump is not an issue. Every Garn we have ever done has an iron pump on it. No problems. If you are running 100% fresh water for domestic use, yes, then by all means use a Bronze or SS pump. I'm guessing that HX would sell for around $5K new.

All that being said, that type of HX has a gasket between each section and they are made to be taken apart for cleaning. You may want to contact Mueller and find out if the material normally used for said gaskets is suitable for use in a boiler system which will be running at 180*+ and will contain typical boiler chemicals.  
Just a thought.


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## 2.beans (Nov 14, 2012)

The heat exchanger was hooked up in the house when I picked the boiler up. Supposedly the heat exchanger was in the lighthouse that the boiler was in as well. That doesn't mean that it has the right gaskets in it. So that is a good idea to contact them to see if it is compatible with heating system. Thank you.


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## wardk (Nov 15, 2012)

allan said:


> When you hookup your boiler, add an exhaust temp guage just after the exhaust exits the boiler. i added a turbulator to my last pass, a suggestion from Tom Caldwell, and now i have exhaust temps exiting the boiler at about 250-300 F. I would love to see Tom's O2 system, but I believe there is deminishing returns when your exhaust temps are already so low.


I added a turbulator to the garn, flue temps are between 400-450 if the temp drops below 325 it smokes a bit, if it's 250 it's almost out. Do you think my temps are too high?


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## TCaldwell (Nov 15, 2012)

wardk,
Where did you get your turbulator, aftermarket or garn. 400-450 represents a good hot burn, depending on the stage of the burn, if toward the end 325 is normal, if in the middle the wood moisture content could be too high disrupting gasification, yes at 250 it is almost out. What was the water temp  when these flue temps were monitored. keep in mind if these were before the last pass, the actual flue temp at the back of the appliance is lower. Turbulators should be sized carefully, as they can cause flow restricting backpressure that does show a lower fluetemp caused by reduced boiler output.


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## 2.beans (Nov 15, 2012)

If your burning wood with the correct moisture content what should the exhaust temperature be at the back of the boiler? Without a turbulator.


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## wardk (Nov 16, 2012)

TCaldwell said:


> wardk,
> Where did you get your turbulator, aftermarket or garn. 400-450 represents a good hot burn, depending on the stage of the burn, if toward the end 325 is normal, if in the middle the wood moisture content could be too high disrupting gasification, yes at 250 it is almost out. What was the water temp when these flue temps were monitored. keep in mind if these were before the last pass, the actual flue temp at the back of the appliance is lower. Turbulators should be sized carefully, as they can cause flow restricting backpressure that does show a lower fluetemp caused by reduced boiler output.


I'm assuming it's a turbulator , it's an angled piece of steel that fits in the final section of the flue behind the thermometer. Gran supplied.


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## 2.beans (Nov 16, 2012)

This piece?


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## wardk (Nov 16, 2012)

2.beans said:


> This piece?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats it.


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## 2.beans (Nov 16, 2012)

Check out this link. http://shop.garn.com/order-parts/flow-stabilizer-p-0062/


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