# Nightmares -- or daydreams -- on 2021 pellet costs?



## tiger (Jun 17, 2021)

Usually in June I get an order in for the fall pellet season, one or two skid's worth. I sent an e-mailto my usual supplier and, like most businesses, angering e-mails is apparently not a priority, so I'll probably be calling any day now.

That said, the 2020/2021 economy is full of reports of astronomical asking prices on almost any product, to the point where I am deferring some purchases if possible. If I have to, I can shut the stove down all winter and rely on the gas boiler which works fine and likely more efficient, if missing the ambiance. Is anyone already getting their 2021/2022 "stash" and, if so, what are you seeing versus last season?


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## jackman (Jun 17, 2021)

I got 2 tons last week at $235/ton a 7% increase from last year which is tolerable for me.


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## johneh (Jun 18, 2021)

I ordered my 21/22 pellets in April spring buy 
from my dealer. If you buy them and pay for them 
the price remains the same as the year before.  So I 
bought 4 1/2 tons at a far price for Canada 
He stores (inside) till you call for delivery. Delivery 
is includes in the price I have no idea what prices will be 
but If all holds the price will go up


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 18, 2021)

*Buy now.*

*Dan*


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## gutlo (Jun 19, 2021)

tiger said:


> Usually in June I get an order in for the fall pellet season, one or two skid's worth. I sent an e-mailto my usual supplier and, like most businesses, angering e-mails is apparently not a priority, so I'll probably be calling any day now.
> 
> That said, the 2020/2021 economy is full of reports of astronomical asking prices on almost any product, to the point where I am deferring some purchases if possible. If I have to, I can shut the stove down all winter and rely on the gas boiler which works fine and likely more efficient, if missing the ambiance. Is anyone already getting their 2021/2022 "stash" and, if so, what are you seeing versus last season?



A significant part of pellet cost is transporatation, which is going up.  That alone is reason to buy pellets now for the fall season.


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## jackhammer (Jun 29, 2021)

My two tons of Vermont pellets cost $10 more per ton Then last year. $309/ton. They have gone up since I ordered mine in April.


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## Pete Zahria (Jun 29, 2021)

gutlo said:


> A significant part of pellet cost is transporatation, which is going up



*One dealer said the pallets went up 10 bucks.*
*If you look at the prices of lumber,, you can see it is no lie..
*
*Dan*


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 8, 2021)

Universal likes on all comments.  My basic fuel price is still the same (free).  I do need a ton of pellets just in case, I have 3 in the barn from last year, need a trip to TSC I guess.  Topped up my propane bottles in the spring.  I have a bad feeling that propane is gonna go way up.

TSC is offering 25 bucks off a ton.  problem is, 25 bucks off what as there are no prices listed.

I'll try to grab a stale ton from the back lot (like I've done in previous years) and barter on the price.


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## Ocelot (Jul 15, 2021)

For us fuel oil is and will continue to be going up also. Probably the oil increase will outpace pellet increases. That said, even if the heating cost of oil remains similar to pellets, I'll choose pellets over oil anyway. For one thing we're home all day, every day and we can keep the parts of the house we spend the most time in warmer with the pellet stove than with the forced air furnace. Secondly we like heating with pellets better than oil anyway.


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## Tonyray (Jul 15, 2021)

Ocelot said:


> For us fuel oil is and will continue to be going up also. Probably the oil increase will outpace pellet increases. That said, even if the heating cost of oil remains similar to pellets, I'll choose pellets over oil anyway. For one thing we're home all day, every day and we can keep the parts of the house we spend the most time in warmer with the pellet stove than with the forced air furnace. Secondly we like heating with pellets better than oil anyway.


Agree...
our oil fired baseboard heat is fire up and heat, shut down, cool down, fire up and heat,     rinse/lather/repeat.
the pellets stove is constant heat blowing as we burn 24/7..as long as pellets are in the hopper.


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## Vinelife (Jul 16, 2021)

Paid 209 a ton, pro pellets at TSC ...got 4 tons.  Loaded up and ready to go for 21-22 season..


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## clancey (Jul 17, 2021)

You people are smart getting ready for the season...your ahead of the curve--bless you all..clancey


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## Tonyray (Jul 17, 2021)

Bought 4 tons from my dealer at early buy special in April...I also get to pick delivery month.. Win Win...


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## clancey (Jul 17, 2021)

When I thought about having a pellet stove--actually ordered a inferior one thinking it might be good with no electricity.  I looked at places that sold pellets on the net and  some peoples pellets were no good and the best ones came from the east somewhere because they recommended "hard pellets" for burning. So I thought I could never find good pellets here and would have trouble burning these pellets and I had to depend on the "stores" so to speak in order to buy pellets..So after joining here and thinking about all of this and because I only got my stove for emergency use I decided on plain old wood burning..As far as the pellet stoves are concerned I really like them because of their convenience and if in proper working order delivered the product which is heat with relative ease...I guess in a way buying 4 tons is sort of a "get ready motion" for wintertime but you need a place to store this stuff too as well as wood..but pellets are easier and cleaner..Just thoughts here..So I am glad that you all are getting geared up for the winter coming..clancey


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## Tonyray (Jul 17, 2021)

clancey said:


> When I thought about having a pellet stove--actually ordered a inferior one thinking it might be good with no electricity.  I looked at places that sold pellets on the net and  some peoples pellets were no good and the best ones came from the east somewhere because they recommended "hard pellets" for burning. So I thought I could never find good pellets here and would have trouble burning these pellets and I had to depend on the "stores" so to speak in order to buy pellets..So after joining here and thinking about all of this and because I only got my stove for emergency use I decided on plain old wood burning..As far as the pellet stoves are concerned I really like them because of their convenience and if in proper working order delivered the product which is heat with relative ease...I guess in a way buying 4 tons is sort of a "get ready motion" for wintertime but you need a place to store this stuff too as well as wood..but pellets are easier and cleaner..Just thoughts here..So I am glad that you all are getting geared up for the winter coming..clancey


Actually the best pellets are Softwoods which have higher btu and lot less ash.. we pay a bit more here in the east for good softies as the majority of pellets sold here are Hardwoods...cheaper also..  downside is since there are so many hardwood brands a lot of crap is sold as premium hardwoods.


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## clancey (Jul 17, 2021)

Isn't that ironic here "soft pellets" and in your area "hard pellets"----lol  I will send you soft if you send me hard--just kidding...clancey


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## Tonyray (Jul 17, 2021)

clancey said:


> Isn't that ironic here "soft pellets" and in your area "hard pellets"----lol  I will send you soft if you send me hard--just kidding...clancey


Yeah.. 9 out of every 10 brands might be a softie...i know douglas firs from PNW are in the 200' s price.. here they cost 350 to 400.00 most due to shipping costs being so high but the firs are cleanest hottest pellets made hands down.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 17, 2021)

If you factor in the current inflation rate, pellets will go into orbit by Christmas.


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 17, 2021)

gutlo said:


> A significant part of pellet cost is transporatation, which is going up.  That alone is reason to buy pellets now for the fall season.


And inflation caused by how much money printed and injected into the economy in the past year???


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 17, 2021)

I figured things could and probably would be bad for the near foreseeable future so I bought my supply back in February/March. One ton of Pennington's from Wally world at $2 a bag, half a ton of locally produced hardwoods from Lowes at around $5.50 per bag, and the remaining 3 tons from a local trucker that discounted them to $200 per ton down from $250 to get rid of them. I have them stored in my conditioned crawlspace w/ humidity levels averaging 35%.


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 17, 2021)

jackman said:


> I got 2 tons last week at $235/ton a 7% increase from last year which is tolerable for me.


That's pretty good compared to what they were going for up till last heating season here in Eastern part of VA. $250/ton. They will be going up, not sure how much though.


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## Pete Zahria (Jul 18, 2021)

Tonyray said:


> ..i know douglas firs from PNW are in the 200' s price.. here they cost 350 to 400.00 most due to shipping costs being so high but the firs are cleanest hottest pellets made hands down.


*You will be hard pressed to find the DF's for under $400 right now...*
*We had to begrudgingly go up to $439.
And when the current supply is gone, 
we may not be able to get any more.
While they are very clean/hot, 
I have to say that the 100% white pine pellets,
like the Matra... are VERY close..
and right now, they are $299 here. I love 'em.
On the hardwood vs. Softwood...
We get zero calls for hardwood. 
We do have a blend, just for a few of the pellet boiler people.
For some reason, they like them.. I have no experience with them.
As for the future... all I can say is,
NOBODY on the supply end is committing to either price, or delivery.
*
*Dan*


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## Tonyray (Jul 18, 2021)

YES..up to 439.00 here i have seen.
i have 3 tons that we're bought last year in my basement via Early Spring buy which we're under 400.00.
this season i bought 2 Matra and 2 Easyblaze softies..  I use 3/half to 4 ton per season.
i  have used them past few years. Excellent!   & IMHO  they are both the close "2nd" to the Firs as far as heat and low ash..
upper 8K BTU. good Doug firs can hit 9K... my only tick about them is lot of fines but my Harman eats them and spits out heat too.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 18, 2021)

trying to keep the politics on a low ebb here but yes, the more money the Fed prints, the less it's worth, consequently, the costs increase, called inflation and nothing we can do about it, except open the wallet and let the fiat currency flow out.  Life is a biatch.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 18, 2021)

Factoring in 'inflation', expect The cost of pellet fuel to increase substantially next year.  However they will still be a good deal compared to other fuels, especially propane and heating oil.  Nothing good is coming from this inept administration but I take solace in the fact I didn't vote for the current senile leader.


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## clancey (Jul 18, 2021)

I saw a couple of bags of wood at home depot (maybe about 20 bags ) in plastic and in the garden dept and they looked real rough and looked like they were outside all summer--terrible but might be good so maybe they are beginning to put out their old wood pellets or split logs now--just a suggestion here and remember to look next time your in the store..I did not get the price---sorry---but they were on some kind of a sale...clancey


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 18, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Factoring in 'inflation', expect The cost of pellet fuel to increase substantially next year.  However they will still be a good deal compared to other fuels, especially propane and heating oil.  Nothing good is coming from this inept administration but I take solace in the fact I didn't vote for the current senile leader.


Only hope is that people wake up, start paying attention and be willing to participate in the process. We need to know local leaders and school boards and show up. Give kudos to leadership when they deserve it, but also speak out against all the Marxist, divisive garbage being taught in our schools, etc. We may not have kids in public schools, but we are paying taxes to support the crap being taught in many places. These kids being brainwashed are the future of this country, such that it is. Rally around people that are being canceled by the "woke" companies. Know who our senators and representatives are and talk to them.
For me there is no solace in not voting for this "president" given all the people that had no problem voting for him despite his lies, racism, hypocrisy, likely sexual assault, America last policies, etc., etc. and the propagandist mainstream media that so many suckle from.

There are massive problems and pollution with this so called "green" tech that most don't talk about, let alone know about. And we've shut down the Keystone pipeline while greenlighting Russia's. The oil will be moved by other means and find a market. We lose though. Not to mention power plants are shutting down and places are experiencing rolling blackouts, reduced capacity, etc.
I figure we've already passed the point of no return, and with each passing month, the consequences are going to be that much more painful.

I do take solace that God is still in control and this comes as no surprise from a Biblical/Prophetic perspective. I know that lots of people don't believe in the God of the Bible, but what can I say. People don't know what they don't know...


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 18, 2021)

clancey said:


> I saw a couple of bags of wood at home depot (maybe about 20 bags ) in plastic and in the garden dept and they looked real rough and looked like they were outside all summer--terrible but might be good so maybe they are beginning to put out their old wood pellets or split logs now--just a suggestion here and remember to look next time your in the store..I did not get the price---sorry---but they were on some kind of a sale...clancey


Likely trying to get rid of last season's stock. In April, the walmart in Chantilly VA ended up dumping 5+ tons of Penningtons because they stored them unsheltered w/ no covering, no shrink wrap. LOL, such as waste and shame though. Those folks managing that store weren't that bright/knowledgeable.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 18, 2021)

DeadTreeBurner said:


> Likely trying to get rid of last season's stock. In April, the walmart in Chantilly VA ended up dumping 5+ tons of Penningtons because they stored them unsheltered w/ no covering, no shrink wrap. LOL, such as waste and shame though. Those folks managing that store weren't that bright/knowledgeable.


They do make good mulch for the flower beds, expensive though.  My local TSC does the same deal 'cause they store them outside.

It's Wallyworld, par for the course, kind of like my local TSC.  No one seems to care.


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## tiger (Jul 19, 2021)

Well, I sent my usual supplier a couple of e-mails, none of which were answered; normal, I think they just do not care for e-mail. Anyway, got back from two weeks at the beach, and in the mail got a postcard from them. Statesman by Hamers at $309/ton, so up from last year but I am unsure by how much without searching last year's purchase.  Also O'Malley hardwood at $259, and American Wood Fibers white wine at $329. I've had such good luck with Hamers that I am reluctant to buy anything else, but might get ten bags of the white pine to try out with my two tons of Statesman.


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## Tonyray (Jul 19, 2021)

tiger said:


> Well, I sent my usual supplier a couple of e-mails, none of which were answered; normal, I think they just do not care for e-mail. Anyway, got back from two weeks at the beach, and in the mail got a postcard from them. Statesman by Hamers at $309/ton, so up from last year but I am unsure by how much without searching last year's purchase.  Also O'Malley hardwood at $259, and American Wood Fibers white wine at $329. I've had such good luck with Hamers that I am reluctant to buy anything else, but might get ten bags of the white pine to try out with my two tons of Statesman.


From personal exp, stay far away from O'Malleys.. they leave Diamond hard carbon speedbumps in the burnpot.. u will be scraping with a hammer and chisel at times...something in the recipe i guess.. had a ton and could not wait till they we're gone.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 19, 2021)

I guess the farther east you go, the higher the prices go as well.  Over a hundred bucks a ton more than here.


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 19, 2021)

tiger said:


> Well, I sent my usual supplier a couple of e-mails, none of which were answered; normal, I think they just do not care for e-mail. Anyway, got back from two weeks at the beach, and in the mail got a postcard from them. Statesman by Hamers at $309/ton, so up from last year but I am unsure by how much without searching last year's purchase.  Also O'Malley hardwood at $259, and American Wood Fibers white wine at $329. I've had such good luck with Hamers that I am reluctant to buy anything else, but might get ten bags of the white pine to try out with my two tons of Statesman.


Where's your supplier? Wondering what options are available further south in the Fredericksburg area.
O'Malley and other hardwoods have been $250/ton through last year, so up $9 isn't bad if it stays that way.


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 19, 2021)

Tonyray said:


> From personal exp, stay far away from O'Malleys.. they leave Diamond hard carbon speedbumps in the burnpot.. u will be scraping with a hammer and chisel at times...something in the recipe i guess.. had a ton and could not wait till they we're gone.


I think O'Malley's have several plants? They have one here in Tappahannock, VA and their product seems okay. I've burned a little last season w/out speedbumps, and a neighbor has been burning them several years w/ no complaints.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 19, 2021)

I don't much care what brand they are actually.  All I use them for is to keep corn clinkers under control and I have 2 burn pots so one is out soaking in water while the other is in.  Water soaking removes any 'Speed Bumps'....lol

Hard carbon deposits are readily removed with a good soak and some Scotchbrite.


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## Tonyray (Jul 19, 2021)

DeadTreeBurner said:


> I think O'Malley's have several plants? They have one here in Tappahannock, VA and their product seems okay. I've burned a little last season w/out speedbumps, and a neighbor has been burning them several years w/ no complaints.


I assume then that have improved over the years... Was burning in my harman at the time..


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 19, 2021)

Tonyray said:


> I assume then that have improved over the years... Was burning in my harman at the time..


Mine is a Harmon P68, so is the neighbors...


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## Tonyray (Jul 19, 2021)

DeadTreeBurner said:


> Mine is a Harmon P68, so is the neighbors...


cool.. too many other better brands around for me to ever buy again.
AWF we're good softie at that time. no complaints about them.


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## tiger (Jul 20, 2021)

DeadTreeBurner said:


> Where's your supplier? Wondering what options are available further south in the Fredericksburg area.
> O'Malley and other hardwoods have been $250/ton through last year, so up $9 isn't bad if it stays that way.



Mine is the "local" Southern States franchise, 16 miles away for me so still in the delivery radius. I suspect there's a SS nearer you but unsure if the same deals apply.


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## rickwai (Jul 20, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Universal likes on all comments.  My basic fuel price is still the same (free).  I do need a ton of pellets just in case, I have 3 in the barn from last year, need a trip to TSC I guess.  Topped up my propane bottles in the spring.  I have a bad feeling that propane is gonna go way up.
> 
> TSC is offering 25 bucks off a ton.  problem is, 25 bucks off what as there are no prices listed.
> 
> I'll try to grab a stale ton from the back lot (like I've done in previous years) and barter on the price.


I was just at TSC yesterday and they have Somerset in stock for $199.50/ton.  They had 4 truck loads on the ground


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## Ocelot (Jul 21, 2021)

For me in Orange County NY, the nearest place to get good softies like Matra, Lacrete, AWF White Pine is 70 miles away at Slaters Wood Pellets. Delivery from there is to expensive so I plan on making 5 trips between now and October to get 30 bags at a time. My trucks cargo capacity is a little over 1500 lbs but I don't like going more than 30 bags per load.  I actually enjoy the drive since it gets me out of the house. I still have a half ton and go through about 4 tons per season. 

I'll probably get a ton each of the 3 above mentioned brands. All the Home Depot, Lowes, and Tractor supply stores around me never have anything but the cheapo Green Supreme or the white bags at tractor supply and none of them compare to the softwoods I like. In years past, I've   bought 3 tons delivered from Wood Pellets dot com to start the year, usually Clean Fire Pacific blend, but the other three brands I mentioned I like better.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 21, 2021)

You need a 1 ton pickup like I have...  I can haul 2 ton in the bed in a pinch and if I hook up the goose neck trailer, 7 pallets on the deck.  Only need one additional ton this year but I may buy more, I'm worried about the price going up.


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## Tonyray (Jul 21, 2021)

Ocelot said:


> For me in Orange County NY, the nearest place to get good softies like Matra, Lacrete, AWF White Pine is 70 miles away at Slaters Wood Pellets. Delivery from there is to expensive so I plan on making 5 trips between now and October to get 30 bags at a time. My trucks cargo capacity is a little over 1500 lbs but I don't like going more than 30 bags per load.  I actually enjoy the drive since it gets me out of the house. I still have a half ton and go through about 4 tons per season.
> 
> I'll probably get a ton each of the 3 above mentioned brands. All the Home Depot, Lowes, and Tractor supply stores around me never have anything but the cheapo Green Supreme or the white bags at tractor supply and none of them compare to the softwoods I like. In years past, I've   bought 3 tons delivered from Wood Pellets dot com to start the year, usually Clean Fire Pacific blend, but the other three brands I mentioned I like better.


Your right about Big Box stores and the same middle of the road hardwoods they sell.. for yrs it was stove chows at HD . Now its green supremes but to keep prices at around the 259.00 range, its the best your going to get.. i pay more for good softies and me and my stove never regret it.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 21, 2021)

Gonna be real stupid here and ask what is a softie?  I buy pellets by what they have on hand and I've never looked for a particular type, but then pellets for me are nothing more than a clinker deterrent.


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 21, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Gonna be real stupid here and ask what is a softie?  I buy pellets by what they have on hand and I've never looked for a particular type, but then pellets for me are nothing more than a clinker deterrent.


Softwood pellets - oh, and nothing wrong with having the humility to educate oneself.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 21, 2021)

Having learned that now, what are the advantages and disadvantages of hardwood versus softwood?  Is one better than the other and why and are they marked on the bags as such and if not, how do you find out what you have?  For all I know, I may be burning 'softies'


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 21, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Having learned that now, what are the advantages and disadvantages of hardwood versus softwood?  Is one better than the other and why and are they marked on the bags as such and if not, how do you find out what you have?  For all I know, I may be burning 'softies'


My understanding is that at least some softwood varieties burn hotter than hardwood varieties and maybe burn cleaner as well. The type of wood the pellets are made from should be on the bag. I've not seen any softwood around my area.
Maybe some of the other folks that have experience with both softwood and hardwood types can elaborate.


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## Tonyray (Jul 22, 2021)

Burning 24/7 for past years so know somewhat about 'softies'...

Softwoods are made from spruce, douglas firs, pine, white Pine etc...
Throw out what u know about "wood burning" softwoods and Pine logs in your fireplace or wood stove..
Softies go thru a process that any sap or whatever is long past gone so cannot  produce creosote.
The extra kiln drying method they go thru eliminates this..
Softwoods on average burn hotter than hardwoods and leave lot less ash in the burnpot.
The average Box store hardwoods burn in the lower 8K BTU..
Good Softwoods burn in the upper 8K BTU while Douglas firs can hit 9K easily...

2 things cause some softwoods to cost a bit more.:.
[1] Since Douglas firs come from the Pacific Northwest, the shipping costs to people like me West of the Mississippi is higher.
especially in the North East.... Lucky people who live in Oregon, Washington state Pay what I would die for ...
the extra drying process also gets tacked on to the cost....

[2] Hardwoods sold in the east outnumber softwood brands like 25 to 1....[supply and demand there helps jump the softie price].Private Dealers also pay bit more for any Good softwoods so price is increased over hardwoods.
Big box stores can sell a ton of hardwoods normally at average of 250.00 ton... they need to keep the stock at a sellable pricepoint there.
For yrs many Home depots sold Stove chows... very ashy but half decent heat..
Lignetic corp has taken over many brands and now sell Green Supremes as the go to pellet. usually only 1 brand there and Lowes, Walmart etc.
same as chows, lot's of ash but decent heat..

Crappy Hardwoods can sell even cheaper as many companies will use anything they can get the're hands on to make pellets.
quite a few sell bargain priced pellets that are made from old skids..[ few pieces of broken nails are not un-common to find in a bag.]
That great deal $$$$ can really mess up your stove or it will require cleaning a lot more often than normal.
My harman burns anything but i have gotten bit by cheap hardwoods back in my newbie days and regretted it after having sticky residue all in side my stove and exhaust after only a couple weeks...
I clean my outside exhaust once per year and even then it is only a light colored powdery residue..
it's one reason I pay more for good Softwoods.
btw:
All pellets create  heat to some point so " I  just throw in whatever I can find on sale'' is a common  thing for many so to each his own..
If u find a Hardwood deal selling 200.00 or under for a ton and it works for your stove, good for you.!


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## johneh (Jul 22, 2021)

I have seen no difference between soft and hardwood 
Find one that works for you in your price range 
I have burnt pellets for the last 20 years 
The best I have burnt is hardwood and the worst was a softwood 
So now all I buy is Cubix  9000 BTU per pound  0.4 % ash 
They stay the same year after year  Best bang for my buck


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 22, 2021)

johneh said:


> I have seen no difference between soft and hardwood
> Find one that works for you in your price range
> I have burnt pellets for the last 20 years
> The best I have burnt is hardwood and the worst was a softwood
> ...


30+ for me.  I actually wore out my original Englander stove.

I remember when I started out, pellets were 100 bucks a ton and there wasn't much choice either because no one was using them.  Times have changed a lot since then.  I remember I vented it with a metal plate in a window and a couple short lengths of pellet vent (Duravent) and if the wind blew the wrong way, the house smelled like wood smoke..  There was no PFI premium pellets, PFI didn't even exist back then and I was a member of the IBC (defunct) forum back then.  Firepot Pete was on there as well.

I tried corn back then but the Englander didn't do well on corn.  Most people had Amaizing Blaze corn stoves and one gal burned the shells from Walnuts.

I told myself that I'd buy a true multifuel unit that was corn capable and I did.  Still have it.  USSC 6039 HF and I run 2 burn pots.  One is soaking while the other is in the unit.  Same feed motor that came with it, same draft fan too.  I've replaced the room air blower once and the 'fake' brick panel once and the view glass had to be replaced which was my own fault from closing the door too hard and cracking it.  I put grease fittings in all the reduction gearboxes and they all get greased every spring.  Firepot Pete runs a clinker pot he designed and had his son build and his and mine are both manual light, little handful of pellets soaked in liquid firestarter, a match and it's good to go.

Back then we could get cherry pits and I tried them with mixed results.  They burned way too fast with too much ash.  I take it completely apart every spring, grease the gearboxes, oil the fan motor bearings, clean it out real good inside and spray Stabil fogging oil in the firebox so it don't rust too bad (corn  makes nitric acid vapor) so you have to coat the bare steel inside or it rusts bad over the summer.  I take the venting apart and pressure wash it inside, put it back together and call it good.  I don't ever seal the pipe joints either, other than a coat of never seize so I can get them apart easily. Never had a smoke leak issue.  My venting is via a 3-4" cleanout Tee outside with 18 feet of vertical 4" vent and a rain cap up top and the stove has an outside combustion air intake, screened for bugs of course.

Stove has saved me thousands in propane costs over the years.  I do heat my farm shop with propane (PEX in floor heat) when I run out of used motor oil (that comes from the farm tractors and the cars).  I have a Kleen Burn waste oil furnace.  It usually lasts until about February and then I'm on propane.  The Kleen Burn combusts everything from gear oil to brake fluid to hydraulic oil, nice unit.  Not cheap but worth every penny.  I like working in a toasty shop when old man winter is howling outside.  I keep my motor home in the shop as well so I have the motor home kitchen and frig available for snacks or hot coffee, or a place to take a snooze if I want to.  I 'pretend' camp in the winter.

This unit should outlast me (hopefully).  Being 71, not a helluva lot of time left anyway.


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## clancey (Jul 22, 2021)

Your posting was one of the most interesting ones that I have read on this website..At 71 you have many years left and your a very history oriented person and I can see your talents with the knowledge being lost in the future--our world is very different now---and changes for me are hard to master especially since I think we are at the point of no return--not optimistic but we do the best that we can..Thank you for the very enlightened  posting...clancey


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## DeadTreeBurner (Jul 23, 2021)

clancey said:


> Your posting was one of the most interesting ones that I have read on this website..At 71 you have many years left and your a very history oriented person and I can see your talents with the knowledge being lost in the future--our world is very different now---and changes for me are hard to master especially since I think we are at the point of no return--not optimistic but we do the best that we can..Thank you for the very enlightened  posting...clancey


71 is getting pretty close to average life expectancy. Some people make it much longer, some nowhere close. My grandmother is 97. I don't think I can expect that or want that given the way things have been going. And either way, there's no guarantee of tomorrow, any number of things can make short work of us. Only way to deal with that is to know the Lord. Then we can rest easy.


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## Tonyray (Jul 23, 2021)

johneh said:


> I have seen no difference between soft and hardwood
> Find one that works for you in your price range
> I have burnt pellets for the last 20 years
> The best I have burnt is hardwood and the worst was a softwood
> ...


Interesting..i never burnef a horrible softwood but did burn horrible hardwoods myself.  Prob because i have bought well over 20  brands back here over the years before softwoods as a permanant fuel.


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## Washed-Up (Jul 23, 2021)

I’ve only tried a few different brands of pellets in my P61A and there is a bit off difference, used an infra red temp gun as per the sticky, Canadian tires hardwood pellets are more expensive but do put out a bit more heat, tons of fluffy ash tho…the Walmart softies are way cheaper but do have more fines and less ash and a bit less heat, less consistent stock.


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## Tonyray (Jul 23, 2021)

Washed-Up said:


> I’ve only tried a few different brands of pellets in my P61A and there is a bit off difference, used an infra red temp gun as per the sticky, Canadian tires hardwood pellets are more expensive but do put out a bit more heat, tons of fluffy ash tho…the Walmart softies are way cheaper but do have more fines and less ash and a bit less heat, less consistent stock.


walmarts here in the states sell  pretty crappy hardwoods year after year. Penningtons is one of the're staples.
usually never a softie..


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 23, 2021)

Never seen any pellets at the local Walmart here, didn't know they even carried them actually.


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## GovtMule66 (Jul 23, 2021)

tiger said:


> Mine is the "local" Southern States franchise, 16 miles away for me so still in the delivery radius. I suspect there's a SS nearer you but unsure if the same deals apply.


Over the past year the Southern States store in Summersville, WV raised their Statesman Wood Pellets from $225 per ton to $249 per ton plus tax.  We had another Southern States store closer to where I live but unfortunately they closed their doors for good over the summer.  Thankfully we found a small Mom & Pop hardware store in my area that is selling the original Hamer Hot Ones at the same $249 per ton price.  I would say the closer we get to winter the more the price will go up on all pellets regardless of the brand.


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## bogieb (Jul 24, 2021)

johneh said:


> I have seen no difference between soft and hardwood
> Find one that works for you in your price range
> I have burnt pellets for the last 20 years
> The best I have burnt is hardwood and the worst was a softwood
> ...



My stoves love Cubix. Unfortunately they are tough to find, and when I do the cost is prohibitive unless I can find a CL deal. Hamers were great too. (both of those are pure hardwoods)

My P61a is not a fan of pure softies although it did like Vermonts when I got some off CL. Softies or blends that have a high softie content, leave a mess in the exhaust pipe. I surmise that those types of pellets run so hot that the P61a's heating cycle is very short (it heats a very small space) so the exhaust pipe does not get good and hot. The P43 is good with softies, but there doesn't seem to be any advantage to running them at the prices they run.


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## clancey (Jul 24, 2021)

When I first joined this forum I was going to buy the Wiseway Pellet US wood stove that was gravity fed and  it did not require electric at all figuring this would be a  easy project--how wrong I was..lol  But anyway all the literature that I read recommended hard pellets for this stove because they burn better and leave less ash and they suggested pellets from the east coast I am thinking Maine. Here I am in the West with softies and the east coast has the hard ones..I will give you mine if you give me yours--lol ..never happy, clancey


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 24, 2021)

GovtMule66 said:


> I would say the closer we get to winter the more the price will go up on all pellets regardless of the brand.


I believe you are 100% correct in that assumption.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 24, 2021)

clancey said:


> When I first joined this forum I was going to buy the Wiseway Pellet US wood stove that was gravity fed and  it did not require electric at all figuring this would be a  easy project--how wrong I was..lol  But anyway all the literature that I read recommended hard pellets for this stove because they burn better and leave less ash and they suggested pellets from the east coast I am thinking Maine. Here I am in the West with softies and the east coast has the hard ones..I will give you mine if you give me yours--lol ..never happy, clancey


That Wiseway heater looked like a nightmare to me.  Had one at the local stove shop on display and now I see USSC sells them (probably made in China now).


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## Tonyray (Jul 24, 2021)

GovtMule66 said:


> Over the past year the Southern States store in Summersville, WV raised their Statesman Wood Pellets from $225 per ton to $249 per ton plus tax.  We had another Southern States store closer to where I live but unfortunately they closed their doors for good over the summer.  Thankfully we found a small Mom & Pop hardware store in my area that is selling the original Hamer Hot Ones at the same $249 per ton price.  I would say the closer we get to winter the more the price will go up on all pellets regardless of the brand.
> 
> View attachment 280431


good price for Hamer's


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## Dataman (Jul 24, 2021)

Just came back from Purchasing Pellets for Upcoming Heating Season.     ACE Hardware, North Idaho Energy Log.    $219, but Discount of $5.00 if you purchased more than 1 Ton.   

With Labor and Delivery comes to $714.97

No Increase from last year.  Actually little cheaper with Discount.


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## Pete Zahria (Jul 24, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> You need a 1 ton pickup like I have...


*Or you can save the 50,000*
_*and put it towards having them delivered...   
*_
*Dan*


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 24, 2021)

Pete Zahria said:


> *Or you can save the 50,000*
> _*and put it towards having them delivered...  *_
> 
> *Dan*


Mine has been paid for since 2000.....


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 24, 2021)

Interestingly, here in Michigan pellets aren't taxable.


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## Tonyray (Jul 24, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Interestingly, here in Michigan pellets aren't taxable.


no tax here in Pa on wood pellets,,


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## johneh (Jul 24, 2021)

Here in Ontario, we pay the GST (grab and screw tax) 13%
Got to keep Justin Trudeau and Doug Ford  happy


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## Dataman (Jul 24, 2021)

Pete Zahria said:


> *Or you can save the 50,000*
> _*and put it towards having them delivered...  *_
> 
> *Dan*


And Handle them twice?  For $50 bucks?  No thanks.  We have Pickup.   They will place them in Bay of Building.   Move them with Tractor after that.  9 bags at a time.


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## Pete Zahria (Jul 25, 2021)

Dataman said:


> And Handle them twice?  For $50 bucks?  No thanks.  We have Pickup.   They will place them in Bay of Building.   Move them with Tractor after that.  9 bags at a time.


*I guess I'm not following...*

*Dan*


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 25, 2021)

Dataman said:


> And Handle them twice?  For $50 bucks?  No thanks.  We have Pickup.   They will place them in Bay of Building.   Move them with Tractor after that.  9 bags at a time.


I have to say that living just north of Toledo Jeep I got to see that vehicle almost as soon as it came off the assembly line and I thought to myself, what a fugly vehicle.  Useless bed on a Jeep.  I don't get it and the price is insane too.  Sure you like it, all good with me.  I don't.  No way could it haul a half skid of pellets anyway without breaking the springs.

They have them stacked up like cordwood in lots all over east Toledo right now.  Seems to be a chip shortage...


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 25, 2021)

Stopping in at TSC tomorrow to pre buy a ton or 2.


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## Dataman (Jul 26, 2021)

It's perfect vehicle for us.    I had Ram 3500 with 8ft bed and 6.7l.   It would get stuck by sliding off driveway at least once per year.  Got about 12" rise at end of driveway to county road.   Even with 4 bags of Sand in Bed it would get stuck.  Slide off.   Jeep just climbs out.  We need PU for Trash Removal every 6 weeks.   Go to Transfer Station.   Traded 2019 Rubicon for this in May.    Don't miss the Ram.   Had annoying electrical problem of selector for 4x4 not working.   Dealer could not fix.  Never acted up there.   Made it someone else's problem.   But it was nice hauling plywood.  Now we use trailer.  Just Foot Note.  Even with Cooper AT3 Tires it would slide off.


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## SpaceBus (Jul 26, 2021)

Dataman said:


> It's perfect vehicle for us.    I had Ram 3500 with 8ft bed and 6.7l.   It would get stuck by sliding off driveway at least once per year.  Got about 12" rise at end of driveway to county road.   Even with 4 bags of Sand in Bed it would get stuck.  Slide off.   Jeep just climbs out.  We need PU for Trash Removal every 6 weeks.   Go to Transfer Station.   Traded 2019 Rubicon for this in May.    Don't miss the Ram.   Had annoying electrical problem of selector for 4x4 not working.   Dealer could not fix.  Never acted up there.   Made it someone else's problem.   But it was nice hauling plywood.  Now we use trailer.  Just Foot Note.  Even with Cooper AT3 Tires it would slide off.
> 
> 
> View attachment 280460
> View attachment 280461


Slide off? The only time my 06 Cummins Dually has issues is when there is loads of ice on the ground, but I have six MTs, not four highway tires. To be fair four sand bags is really nothing to a 3/4 or one ton pickup. Your 19 Rubicon and the new Gladiator have much more aggressive tires than your Ram ever did. The tires are the limiting factor for traction, not your vehicle.


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## Dataman (Jul 26, 2021)

I think it not going into 4x4 was limiting a lot.   Had mind of it's own


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## SpaceBus (Jul 26, 2021)

Dataman said:


> I think it not going into 4x4 was limiting a lot.   Had mind of it's own


Yeah, that definitely does not help.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 26, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> To be fair four sand bags is really nothing to a 3/4 or one ton pickup.


With a ton pallet of pellets in the back of my 1 ton Ford, it don't even put the overload leaf on the snubber, 2 tons, maybe.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 26, 2021)

Bought 2 ton of Michigan Hardwood at the local TSC today.  $209.00 per ton and no tax as usual.  About a ton more than I need actually.


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## tiger (Jul 28, 2021)

tiger said:


> Well, I sent my usual supplier a couple of e-mails, none of which were answered; normal, I think they just do not care for e-mail. Anyway, got back from two weeks at the beach, and in the mail got a postcard from them. Statesman by Hamers at $309/ton, so up from last year but I am unsure by how much without searching last year's purchase.  Also O'Malley hardwood at $259, and American Wood Fibers white wine at $329. I've had such good luck with Hamers that I am reluctant to buy anything else, but might get ten bags of the white pine to try out with my two tons of Statesman.



Pulled the trigger on 2 tons of the Statesman/Hamers, was pleased to find that delivery was included!  Pretty sure that last year, while cheaper/ton, there was a delivery charge from the same place.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 28, 2021)

The TSC store where I get mine, asked me if I wanted to deliver pellets to customers.  Flat said no.  Not interested unless they unload them and only full skids.  I'm too old (71) to be fingerprinting bags of pellets other than my own.


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## tlc1976 (Jul 28, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Bought 2 ton of Michigan Hardwood at the local TSC today.  $209.00 per ton and no tax as usual.  About a ton more than I need actually.



How do you not pay tax? Unless it’s for your farm expense? Unless something is changed recently, Michigan home heating fuel has a 4% tax. So a discount from the regular 6% sales tax, but still taxed.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 28, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> How do you not pay tax? Unless it’s for your farm expense? Unless something is changed recently, Michigan home heating fuel has a 4% tax. So a discount from the regular 6% sales tax, but still taxed.


Answered you own question.  I have an ag account there and I tell them for farm use which is the truth sort of.  Heating the farmstead.  I pay 4% on my propane unless it's the dryer bottles and then, no tax, ag use.

I pay enough tax to the state to pizz away as it is.  You can tell I'm a 'big fan' of state government...not.


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## tlc1976 (Jul 31, 2021)

I got 3 tons of Pro Pellets at TSC today to top off my stash. 5 tons total so I’m prepared if we end up getting a brutal winter. Paid $235 a ton which is the same as last year. Now I see the ad for Family Farm and Home has them for $219 a ton. Oh well. I still would have gone to TSC in Boyne rather than deal with Charlevoix in the summer.

One thing they did was put an extra pallet below each ton. Nobody else has ever done that. Made it nice to keep the forks from stabbing the bottom bags.


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## SidecarFlip (Jul 31, 2021)

Candidly, we have a Farm and Fleet here to but I don't much care for them.  It's the old County Post I think.

209 a ton here.  I unload mine with my hi-lo and I've never stuck a bag.  I bet Charlevoix is a zoo in the summer.


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## tlc1976 (Jul 31, 2021)

I unload mine by hand. I couldn’t get a hi lo into the pole barn if I wanted to, it’s very low. Besides I get to inspect the bags as I go, if I get a whole bunch of bags that have gotten wet then the pallet goes back. That’s happened before.

Ace Hardware took over the old County Post. Farm and Home was a Buy Low Foods, then a few farm store failures. I like Farm and Home, I got my stove there. But yes the town is a zoo in the summer and I avoid going across whenever possible. Same with many coworkers. Many of us chose our house location based on not having to cross town for work. Sometimes it takes 45 minutes to go 2 miles, and jaywalkers galore. The TSC in Boyne is new and a nice addition. I live in the sticks kinda between everything.


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## bogieb (Aug 1, 2021)

Pre-ordered 2 tons from TSC yesterday and it was $234.50/ton. Already have 3 tons in the house and figure I will manage to obtain some from CL finds.


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 1, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> I unload mine by hand. I couldn’t get a hi lo into the pole barn if I wanted to, it’s very low. Besides I get to inspect the bags as I go, if I get a whole bunch of bags that have gotten wet then the pallet goes back. That’s happened before.
> 
> Ace Hardware took over the old County Post. Farm and Home was a Buy Low Foods, then a few farm store failures. I like Farm and Home, I got my stove there. But yes the town is a zoo in the summer and I avoid going across whenever possible. Same with many coworkers. Many of us chose our house location based on not having to cross town for work. Sometimes it takes 45 minutes to go 2 miles, and jaywalkers galore. The TSC in Boyne is new and a nice addition. I live in the sticks kinda between everything.


  Me thinks you are right as there is an ACE in the same spot where the County Post was.  Interestingly I bought my first stove at County Post at least 3 decades ago.  The Englander (long gone) came from there.  Not sure if ACE even has pellets, I didn't look.  TSC has what I want so I get them there.  Need to go down the road with one of the farm tractors and pick up a couple skids of corn sometime before first frost.  Other than that, I'm good to go.


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## Ocelot (Aug 9, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> How do you not pay tax? Unless it’s for your farm expense? Unless something is changed recently, Michigan home heating fuel has a 4% tax. So a discount from the regular 6% sales tax, but still taxed.



Here in NY State, wood pellets for home heating are sales tax exempt. 

Ray


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 9, 2021)

Looks like this year (2021) will be a repeat of last year but what about going forward like 2022?


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## tlc1976 (Aug 9, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Looks like this year (2021) will be a repeat of last year but what about going forward like 2022?



Hopefully it  stays where it’s at or lower.  I was actually more worried about last year, as businesses of most types were forced to take measures that resulted in cutting back, even essential manufacturing like I do. So I was concerned that pellet supply would be tight, but there didn’t seem to be any problems at least here. Now I think the only thing that’s closed by mandate are some entertainment type industries, if even that. And gas hasn’t gone up more than 20 cents since Spring. Even with a record breaking tourist season.


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 10, 2021)

tlc1976 said:


> Hopefully it stays where it’s at or lower.




In our society, the word 'lower' don't apply to much if anything.


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## tiger (Aug 24, 2021)

Almost four weeks after ordering,  called my supplier wondering why there had not been a call to schedule the delivery to me. Turns out a significant delay in arrivals from the factory, the first truckloads just starting to show up. I'm supposed to get my two tons early next week. A shortage of truck drivers was mentioned.


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 24, 2021)

There is an 'acute' shortage of truck drivers everywhere.  Lots of wannabe 'steering wheel holders' but good drivers are hard to find.


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## rickwai (Aug 28, 2021)

I got Somersets from TSC For $199.50/Ton plus 5% off for using the TSC credit card. Which almost offsets the tax.


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 28, 2021)

Have their card as well but rarely use it.  I prefer my Kroger Mastercard because I not only get fuel points, but I get cash back vouchers for groceries from Kroger which my wife gets as she does the shopping, not me.  Just got 125 bucks in vouchers yesterday.

My wife is in the 'Neighbors Club' and they e-mail her discount coupons for merchandise.  Though I always pay the balance on all my cards monthly, the TSC card's interest rate is scary high.








Like I said previously, no tax on the pellets, I put them on my TE farm account.  They do go to heat the farm house so I'm really not lying, just stretching the envelope a bit...lol

I see TSC's wild bird seed went up quite a bit.  We feed the birds in the winter, keeps the cats entertained...lol  They try to catch them but rarely succeed.  Our cats are well feed and most are 'chunky monkeys' anyway.  fat cats don't move all that fast.  However, they still make good mousers and keep the barn mice under control which for me is all good.  keeps the rodents out of my tractors and keeps them from munching on the electrical wires.

Dreading diesel fuel costs next year.  having to increase my cost per round bale to offset that incurred cost.  Have one customer that buys everything I make and has for 5 years now.  he only wants 4x5 rounds, preferably in net but will take poly in a pinch.  He picks them up right out of the field with his semi trailers, I just load them, usually 40 to a load and he is real good at payment too.  I'm increasing my acreage a bit, fitting up an additional 10 acres right now for next year.  Vernal alfalfa has went way up in cost (certified seed) as well.  went from 200 a bag to 300 a bag.  Might switch to roundup ready alfalfa, not sure yet.  here in Michigan, to purchase Roundup Ready alfalfa you need to hold a pesticide / herbicide application license, which I have.

Besides, just bought a new 2021 Kubota Net Twine Premium round baler with all the bells and whistles on it.  $43,000.  I did trade in my present New Holland 450 Net Twine baler however.  Dealer gave me 23.5 for mine and Kubota kicked in an additional 5 grand ag discount, plus I financed the balance with Kubota at 0 percent so it didn't hurt too bad....and I sold my New Holland 575 high capacity square bailer that I haven't used in 5 years for 12.5 cash on Tractor House.  Last year I sold my old Giehl rotary rake on TH and purchased a Kuhn Master Drive rotary so all that is left to turn over is the NH discbine but I'm hesitant to sell or trade it as it's a darn good machine and easy to work on.  I'd prefer having a center point mower (mine is a side pull).  Center swing machines are much more maneuverable in odd shaped fields and require less passes and over cuts.  Soon it will be time to service everything and put it to sleep in the barn for next season.

I mothball all the tractors except one.  That one gets a 10 foot power angle snowplow on the front and a Lucknow 7 foot blower on the back for old man winter.  we live 2 miles off the pavement so getting out after a snow event can be dicey.  Normally, I don't put up pictures but I made an exception.  As you can see, I prefer large frame Kubota diesels...


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## clancey (Aug 28, 2021)

The picture and information about some of the machinery workings was just "worth its weight in gold" , gosh for a few minutes I thought I was on a farm...I just bet your kitties are "fat and I say sassy as well."  Thanks for the beautiful posting..old mrs clancey


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 28, 2021)

All costs a lot of money.  Now if I was wealthy or it was free... No that won't work either  You respect and take care of things when you pay for them.


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## tiger (Aug 31, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> a Lucknow 7 foot blower on the back


I had to look that one up. Made in Lucknow, India, the site of some of the Indian Mutiny of 1857? No, but Lucknow Ontario was named for  the one in India. Anyway, that rig dwarfs my 17HP John Deere with Cyclone Rake.


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## SidecarFlip (Aug 31, 2021)

tiger said:


> I had to look that one up. Made in Lucknow, India, the site of some of the Indian Mutiny of 1857? No, but Lucknow Ontario was named for  the one in India. Anyway, that rig dwarfs my 17HP John Deere with Cyclone Rake.


Actually, the blower was made by Helm Engineering in Lucknow, Ontario.  Good unit.  Simple and efficient.  It is a power eater though.  Big drifts take every bit of my 95 ponies (PTO) and cause the tractor to blow smoke.

Not looking forward to any of it (snow) actually.


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## tiger (Sep 7, 2021)

Called to check again after a couple of weeks. My pellets are all ready to go... on a mountaintop in West Virginia. No trucks. Latest estimate 7-10 days. Fortunately, it's still nice and warm here.  Just last week had a new "combi-boiler" installed to heat the house so, no matter what, we won't freeze.


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 13, 2021)

tiger said:


> Called to check again after a couple of weeks. My pellets are all ready to go... on a mountaintop in West Virginia. No trucks. Latest estimate 7-10 days. Fortunately, it's still nice and warm here.  Just last week had a new "combi-boiler" installed to heat the house so, no matter what, we won't freeze.


Transportation today is a real PITA.  Everyone is having issues finding drivers and independents are almost non-existent.  My buddy has 53 trucks and 15 are sitting for lack of drivers presently.  His drivers average 80K a year, some are over 100K and he still cannot find qualified drivers.  I have my Class A with all endorsements and I could work tomorrow, but after 30 years of trucking, I've had a belly full.  It's a high stress job dealing with idiot 4 wheelers (and other idiot truck drivers and the man with his hand out constantly).  I have an excellent retirement package plus I farm.  Enough for me.

Got 3 ton of pellets in the barn and 7 ton of no germ corn to roast this winter.


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## johneh (Sep 13, 2021)

My spring buy pellets were just delivered
1 skid Cubix 349 a ton plus tax
1 skid of Energex Blended 309 a ton plus tax 
Less 10 dollars per ton for using a prefered payment 
delivery free


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 13, 2021)

johneh said:


> My spring buy pellets were just delivered
> 1 skid Cubix 349 a ton plus tax
> 1 skid of Energex Blended 309 a ton plus tax
> Less 10 dollars per ton for using a prefered payment
> delivery free


I bet the delivery charge was rolled into the price somehow.  You pay VAT on them correct?  Gotta keep Tredeau in razor blades...


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## johneh (Sep 13, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> You pay VAT on them correct?


We call it HST Harmonized sales tax 
Some for the Doug the slug Ford (Premier of Ontario) 
 some for Justin  (Prime Minister of Canada)
VAT is a value-added tax   (Great Britain)


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## SidecarFlip (Sep 13, 2021)

johneh said:


> We call it HST Harmonized sales tax
> Some for the Doug the slug Ford (Premier of Ontario)
> some for Justin  (Prime Minister of Canada)
> VAT is a value-added tax   (Great Britain)


Appears to be real harmonious to me....

Had no idea what it was called except a  tax.  Living 50 miles from the border is as close as I'll ever come.

No tax on wood pellets here, unless you don't have an ag exemption, then it's 4% I think.  Don't know, never paid it.  Certainly no tax on shelled corn, that is 100% an ag commodity.


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## tlc1976 (Sep 13, 2021)

SidecarFlip said:


> Appears to be real harmonious to me....
> 
> Had no idea what it was called except a  tax.  Living 50 miles from the border is as close as I'll ever come.
> 
> No tax on wood pellets here, unless you don't have an ag exemption, then it's 4% I think.  Don't know, never paid it.  Certainly no tax on shelled corn, that is 100% an ag commodity.


Yes 4% on anything considered home heating fuel. Pellets, propane, fuel oil… Technically firewood too but all of my 45 years I’ve only seen it dealt by private sellers on the side for cash.


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## bogieb (Sep 18, 2021)

I was talking to the local TSC manager about trailers yesterday and happened to mention that I have not seen very many pellets being sold on FBMP and CL - most years I get probably around 1.5 tons of pretty good pellets for cheap. This year, the best I could do was buy about 1/2 ton of some middling pellets for $4/bag (still cheaper than at the store, but not nearly what I'm used to being able to find).

I asked about the TSC store supply and he said they had over 300 tons already sitting there and they are getting 30-40 tons per week. They have been told not to worry about supply as there is no anticipated shortage or difficulty in trucking (this store sells MWP's in the white w/blue lettering TSC bags). He also said that they aren't anticipating a huge price increase.

I have no reason to doubt him and hopefully and nothing comes about that changes what his outlook for the season foretells!


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## tiger (Sep 25, 2021)

tiger said:


> Called to check again after a couple of weeks. My pellets are all ready to go... on a mountaintop in West Virginia. No trucks. Latest estimate 7-10 days. Fortunately, it's still nice and warm here.  Just last week had a new "combi-boiler" installed to heat the house so, no matter what, we won't freeze.


Got a call yesterday, now on the schedule for delivery Tuesday, almost exactly 2 months after buying/paying for my pellets.

Unsure of Hamers' location, I got on their website and their mailing address is in a WV town near Huntington, right on the Ohio river and plenty of highways... but no address specified for the actual plant.  Probably a "_You can't get there from here_" scenario.


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## ABusWrench (Sep 25, 2021)

tiger said:


> Got a call yesterday, now on the schedule for delivery Tuesday, almost exactly 2 months after buying/paying for my pellets.
> 
> Unsure of Hamers' location, I got on their website and their mailing address is in a WV town near Huntington, right on the Ohio river and plenty of highways... but no address specified for the actual plant.  Probably a "_You can't get there from here_" scenario.


Hamer's Hot Ones come out of Elkin West Virginia.


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## tiger (Sep 28, 2021)

ABusWrench said:


> Hamer's Hot Ones come out of Elkin West Virginia.


Aah, there they are, I see the location on Google Maps. I've been in Elkins exactly once. Routes 250 & 33 are a blast in a sports car - but I'd see the reluctance to drive a truck with a 20 ton load there.

And good news; delivered today. Already got one ton in the basement, that's enough workout for one day for a 65-year-old.


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## teucer (Jan 26, 2022)

If you take a piece of lead and grind it into dust and compress said dust into a pellet, then take aluminum bar stock and do the same, you'll have two pellets with two different weights because the density of the compressed pelletized materials within are of differing densities. Further, if you did take all the sap out of softwood, which is not possible simply by kiln drying the pellet, you'd simply end up with a wood pellet of lesser density than its hardwood counterpart. In order for a stove to burn hardwood efficiently, it should have excellent draft or else it will clinker in the burn put as some of you have alluded to. Harwood pellets burn longer because, simply, there's more wood in said pellet to burn! Softwood pellets burn for a shorter time because there is less material in each pellet to burn and said burn is accelerated by sap that is not found in hardwoods. That being said, sap produces creosote at higher rates than does wood without and will create a dirtier burn overall, all other factors being equal. I have to disagree with the presumption that softwood pellets are of higher quality than the hardwood pellets. Imagine paying more for softwood _anything; _I wouldn't.


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## Pete Zahria (Jan 26, 2022)

teucer said:


> Imagine paying more for softwood _anything; _I wouldn't.


_*As long as you are happy with them, keep using them..   

Everyone has their favorites.
We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
asking for hardwood... Usually from former wood burners..
We have a few that like them for boilers, we get them a blend.
Other than maybe 6-8 ton a year, that's it.
I understand how you arrived at your conclusion, but it is not actually correct.
The resins in the softwood, have more heat value, than the wood.
So.. pound for pound, 
the softwood will have more BTU's  (heat output) than the hardwood..

I usually burn 100% white pine, or Douglas Fir.
My glass is clean, and I empty the ash bucket a couple of times a season.
Unlikely results using  bargain hardwoods, or blends...
Creosote? I haven't seen creosote since I stopped using firewood..
*_
*Dan*


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## Mt Bob (Jan 26, 2022)

teucer said:


> If you take a piece of lead and grind it into dust and compress said dust into a pellet, then take aluminum bar stock and do the same, you'll have two pellets with two different weights because the density of the compressed pelletized materials within are of differing densities. Further, if you did take all the sap out of softwood, which is not possible simply by kiln drying the pellet, you'd simply end up with a wood pellet of lesser density than its hardwood counterpart. In order for a stove to burn hardwood efficiently, it should have excellent draft or else it will clinker in the burn put as some of you have alluded to. Harwood pellets burn longer because, simply, there's more wood in said pellet to burn! Softwood pellets burn for a shorter time because there is less material in each pellet to burn and said burn is accelerated by sap that is not found in hardwoods. That being said, sap produces creosote at higher rates than does wood without and will create a dirtier burn overall, all other factors being equal. I have to disagree with the presumption that softwood pellets are of higher quality than the hardwood pellets. Imagine paying more for softwood _anything; _I wouldn't.


Sounds good in theory, but I disagree with some of it.Hard and soft pellets are compressed to a very similar density..That is why a 40lb bag of either has almost identical dimensions when filled. Both are required by standards to provide 8k to 8500 btus. Lignin is required to hold pellets together. Softies tend to have more,naturally, so require less or no fillers.For that reason, lignins, softies tend to burn hotter and faster.Hardwoods tend to have more fillers,which may or may not burn clean. Dirtier burn? Prove it.
The biggest factor is QUALITY of the pellets,hard or soft.


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2022)

I burn good softies in my P61A.. Matra, EasyBlaze and doug firs..
 all in the upper 8K btu. I get a light colored powdery ash or residue in my exhaust tunnel at best...
my biggest complaint with most softies is lot of fines in the bags..
they get pushed into the burpot mostly but still i usually vacuum out the fines box periodically..
I know there are very good hardwoods out there like Turmans etc but never again would
i buy box store bargain stock...low 8K btu mostly...
 too many times back in the newbie days I would come down
in the morning and flames almost smothered.
looked like a candle in the middle of a birthday cake..
I know that is not the case with all hardwoods but I'm fine with softies past 7 years...


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2022)

Pete Zahria said:


> _*As long as you are happy with them, keep using them..
> 
> Everyone has their favorites.
> We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
> ...


Funny how people willing to spend 50 bucks or more a week on takeout that lasts one hour or less but wont spend 50.00 or so  one time for 50 bags of pellets that will last month or maybe more for many...just my 2 cents..


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## Mt Bob (Jan 26, 2022)

Tonyray said:


> Funny how people willing to spend 50 bucks or more a week on takeout that lasts one hour or less but wont spend 50.00 or so  one time for 50 bags of pellets that will last month or maybe more for many...just my 2 cents..


Yep, failed logic on their part.


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## johneh (Jan 26, 2022)

Don't care if they are softwood or hardwood 
I will use a pellet that I find gives me the most heat 
on a -35 Day .
The ones I like the best are hardwood 
So I burn a certain brand of hardwood 
Tried others have always gone back to them 
IT WORKS FOR ME
If you want to know the brand ask me


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## Dataman (Jan 26, 2022)

No Hardwood Pellets except for the ones for Food (Cooking BBQ).   Those are spendy.  Everything is Softwood here in Pacific NW (E Wa State).  No one sells heating Hardwood Pellets.    I use North Idaho Energy Log Pellets..     Great heat and little ash.    Got a choice coming up in Feb.  Down to 21 bags that I have out of Pallets (2 Tons Sitting).  But too much snow to get them except by Wheelbarrel.    Seems I will be buying them by bag to finish out eating season.   Too much snow in the way to back porch.


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2022)

Dataman said:


> No Hardwood Pellets except for the ones for Food (Cooking BBQ).   Those are spendy.  Everything is Softwood here in Pacific NW (E Wa State).  No one sells heating Hardwood Pellets.    I use North Idaho Energy Log Pellets..     Great heat and little ash.    Got a choice coming up in Feb.  Down to 21 bags that I have out of Pallets (2 Tons Sitting).  But too much snow to get them except by Wheelbarrel.    Seems I will be buying them by bag to finish out eating season.   Too much snow in the way to back porch.
> 
> View attachment 290755


Your lucky to be where douglas firs come from. Almost 9K Btu. Most box store stuff here are in the low 8K. Due to shipping costs doug fir back here in the east are over 400.00 ton. But there are prob 50 brands or more of hardwoods all over. Some great , some good, but lot of mediocre stuff at box stores.


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## Tonyray (Jan 26, 2022)

johneh said:


> Don't care if they are softwood or hardwood
> I will use a pellet that I find gives me the most heat
> on a -35 Day .
> The ones I like the best are hardwood
> ...


 Softwoods give me the most heat. If Turman hardwoods were available here i would buy them.


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## rickwai (Jan 27, 2022)

Here in Ohio I have never seen softwood pellets in the past 20 yrs.


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## teucer (Jan 27, 2022)

Pete Zahria said:


> _*As long as you are happy with them, keep using them..
> 
> Everyone has their favorites.
> We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
> ...


The resins in softwood indeed act as an accelerant and cause the softwood pellet to burn hotter but it will burn for a shorter time.


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## Tonyray (Jan 27, 2022)

teucer said:


> The resins in softwood indeed act as an accelerant and cause the softwood pellet to burn hotter but it will burn for a shorter time.


maybe..... haven't burned hardwoods in so long I cannot do a comparison  for hours burned on a full hopper.


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## Pete Zahria (Jan 27, 2022)

teucer said:


> The resins in softwood indeed act as an accelerant and cause the softwood pellet to burn hotter but it will burn for a shorter time.


_*Think about that for a minute........   
*_
*Dan*


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## ABusWrench (Jan 27, 2022)

rickwai said:


> Here in Ohio I have never seen softwood pellets in the past 20 yrs.


It's the same over here in this part of the state. Haven't seen a softwood pellet in person in the 8 yrs I've been burning. One local hardware store has them on their webpage, but never in stock. Menards lists a softwood, but they're special order. There are usually 8-10 different brands of hardwood pellets available around here.


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## maraakate (Jan 28, 2022)

I had a hard time finding softwoods and good pellets until I started looking around for local hearth stores/dealers.


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## Tonyray (Jan 28, 2022)

Best places to find good softies. And better hardwoods than box store stuff.


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## maraakate (Jan 28, 2022)

Yes, and funny enough the one of the dealers has good softwoods at practically the same prices as the crappy big box stuff.


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## Tonyray (Jan 28, 2022)

maraakate said:


> Yes, and funny enough the one of the dealers has good softwoods at practically the same prices as the crappy big box stuff.


Thats good. I usually pay around 50.00 more a ton for the good softies.. not bad. Some wont pay that but people will spend that for one  takeout meal while the ton of pellets last heck of a lot longer.. month or for some....


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## maraakate (Jan 29, 2022)

Even if you're frugal, I think the time you save from having to clean the stove more frequently and the extra heat output make that $50/ton not a bad deal at all.


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## bogieb (Jan 29, 2022)

maraakate said:


> Even if you're frugal, I think the time you save from having to clean the stove more frequently and the extra heat output make that $50/ton not a bad deal at all.



For me, it is worth it to run the middling pellets from the local TSC.  So what if I have to clean the P43 every 2 or 3 weeks (this year has been mild enough that it is 3 or more weeks). Not like cleaning the stoves is keeping me from doing something else that I want to do.  

Of course my house is small, so I don't need big heat - neither stove works hard, that's for sure. I'm certainly happy to burn better pellets when the opportunity presents itself for the P43. However, the P61a just plain needs to run the middling pellets since it is heating such a small space . With really good pellets it will literally only run minutes to get the room air to temp, which doesn't produce great results in the firebox. When I was still heating the foundation and concrete floor, that wasn't an issue.

But, I recognize my circumstances are unique and I cheer you guys on from the sidelines when you can find great pellets.


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## shtrdave (Jan 29, 2022)

I have never seen softwood pellets around me. I used Hamers for a few years and really liked them. I bought them from a place about 40 miles away and they delivered to me for 60 bucks not bad as I would get 3 -4 ton. I had a guy with a high lift unload them for me, I think  that was part of the reason delivery was cheap the driver wasn't waiting around for them to be unloaded by hand. They guy I had unloading his high lift broke down, and I ended getting AWP from the local feed store, they deliver and unload stack right inside my garage. But it is 27 a ton for delivery.  I had 270 each in 3 ton this year.


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## maraakate (Jan 29, 2022)

Hamer's are supposed to be great hardwoods, but I never burned them.  The hearth store I get the Easy Blaze Softwoods from also has Hamer's and Turman's but funny enough those are slightly more than the Easy Blaze and I'm very satisfied with them never had a reason to try the others.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Jan 29, 2022)

I expect to burn 7 tons of pellets this season. Seven times $50 would cover an extra ton of pellets and then some. A limited selection of softwood pellets is available here, and I haven't noticed a big increase in heat output when I burn them. They're certainly clean burning. Maybe their quality isn't on a par with other manufacturers'.

We have a few pellet factories here in the Western Great Lakes. I suspect their "hardwood" pellets are mostly poplar and maple. Once in a while I stock up on Somerset hardwoods, most likely oak and hickory.  I certainly get fractionally more heat out of the Sets than local brands ... but the last time I checked, the Somerset retailer here wanted $280/ton. I did an early buy at TSC for $210/skid. The Sets' extra BTU output isn't worth the extra outlay.


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## maraakate (Jan 29, 2022)

If you're satisfied thats all that matters.  Where i live the tsc and other big box hardwoods were terrible.  Low heat output unless the feed rate and heat mode was maxed out and they required more frequent cleaning on the burn pot.


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## Mr._Graybeard (Jan 29, 2022)

I think it's very much a regional thing. Wouldn't you love to be one of those pellet burners in the Great Northwest, where sofites are cheap and plentiful?


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## Dataman (Jan 29, 2022)

Yup lots of Soft Wood Pellets here in Pacific NW. No Hardwood at all (Except Food Certified Ones).   I think they are $175 last time I checked at Feed Store and 220 at ACE HW plus 70 bucks delivery.   Plan on getting 2-3 tones (2 Tons leftover such warm winter).


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## Mr._Graybeard (Jan 29, 2022)

Dataman said:


> Yup lots of Soft Wood Pellets here in Pacific NW. No Hardwood at all (Except Food Certified Ones).   I think they are $175 last time I checked at Feed Store and 220 at ACE HW plus 70 bucks delivery.   Plan on getting 2-3 tones (2 Tons leftover such warm winter).


Ya play the hand you're dealt. I like that I can heat my home with fuel processed about 150 miles away. And if that benefits some loggers in my state, all the better.


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## teucer (Feb 1, 2022)

Time to rid myself of the Breckwell Classic Cast....and buy a coal stoker. $269 a ton is insane


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