# seeking info on Avalon AVB-800 (or AV5-800?) insert, from Oct 1985



## Dave146 (Jul 21, 2014)

I can't afford a newer insert for now, and this one comes with my house. I only found one passing reference to it online (here, someone replacing it), and I'd like to learn a little more about it. The rear label says (I think) Avalon AVB-800 (but the letters are hard to read). It says "Fuel Type: Solid Wood Only." "Tested October 1985". It seems to be in good shape. It has all the fire bricks inside (rear, bottom, left, right, front), etc. It has a 45-degree back, which fits well for the fireplace. I'm sure it is not as efficient as current models and emits more effluent, but I'm curious just how good or badly it compares.

I've looked on the Avalon website, scoured the internet, and haven't found it. I've found manuals for Avalon Pendleton 745/790 (and others), which looks somewhat similar, but is not quite the same. I found one manual that covers Avalon model #s: 700, 901, and 1000 C2. But not the 800!   (http://www.avalonfirestyles.com/travisdocs/93508063.pdf PDF)  It is also not listed on the Avalon "discontinued manuals" page: http://www.avalonfirestyles.com/DiscontinuedManuals.aspx  (This makes me worry that maybe the 800 was defective, so they've removed it??? Or maybe not enough were made, although my SN is 1222.) 

Many thanks for any info, links to manuals, or etc.! Much appreciated.


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## Dave146 (Sep 11, 2014)

*peep*? Just seeing if anyone has any info. Thanks!


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## LiamK (Sep 27, 2014)

Here are some photos of the stove and of its label. It is an Avalon model AVB-800, serial # 1222, tested to UL 1482 / UL 907, tested October 3, 1986 [or possibly 1985, the last digit is either a 6 or a 5], Report No. SS 110 8 & 9, Solid Wood Only.   (Note: it does not list UL 737.)

Is this model safe to use? Does the design or model have any known defects? Does anyone have any additional info about it? Estimated fuel efficiency? Heat output? Other comparative measures or indicators? Thanks for any info! 

I can't find anything at all about it, which is unusual for an Avalon stove (even of that era). 

(I do have the firebricks to line the bottom/sides of it, I just removed them when transporting and for the pics.)

It's not listed in the "Discontinued Wood Models" section on Avalon's website: http://www.avalonfirestyles.com/DiscontinuedManuals.aspx 
The models they list jump from 796 to 901, and none are dated prior to 1987. It is not the Cottage, Flush Wood Insert/Perfect Fit, nor Mission models.
The 'discontinued' models they list are as follows: 
*Models: Manuals: *
1196 -- 1990 to 1993  Owner's  
700 wood -- _1987_  Owner's  
796 -- 1990 to 1993  Owner's   |   Owner's  
901 -- 1987  Owner's  
996 -- 1990 to 1993  Owner's  
Cottage  Owner's  
Flush Wood Insert, Perfect Fit (Avalon)  Owner  
Mission
 Owner's


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2014)

I dont know anything about the stove but is there a liner to connect to it?  If not you cant use it i am sorry.  Other than that it has the ul tag giving you all of the clearances so if you hook a liner to it check the gaskets and fire brick id fire it up and see how it works.


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## LiamK (Sep 27, 2014)

bholler said:


> I dont know anything about the stove but is there a liner to connect to it?  If not you cant use it i am sorry.  Other than that it has the ul tag giving you all of the clearances so if you hook a liner to it check the gaskets and fire brick id fire it up and see how it works.


Yes! Thanks for checking the basics, much appreciated! I got free 7 feet of a new 6" 316Ti stainless-steel flexible chimney liner. I need to buy (or find) about 4 feet more of the same liner, and I will attach it using a stainless, dripless connector. (It's a one-story house, flat roof, slab floor. From the top of the chimney to where the liner meets the stove is about 10.5'.)

I'll need to read up on exactly how to attach the liner to the stove, but I figure that is pretty standard for all stoves.  (E.g., I'm not sure yet if I need to get a gasket for it, or use wood-stove cement to seal, or what.)

(The old fireplace heatilator-type metal firebox has rusted out on the front and rear edges, and one of its tubes is rusted out. I need to cut out that tube anyway, to get the 6" liner through the flue. So I will need to seal up rusted areas of the metal firebox first, and seal the cut tube holes, presumably using a *refractory cement* (like Rutland Dry Mix 211 mortar; *not* Quikrete nor other Portland cements, which can degrade at temps as low as 200F), and perhaps some rock-wool, making a cap/plug for the tube holes, etc. I think I've got it figured out, lots of work, but doable. Not ideal, and if I had money I'd get a new chimney, or a new house...)


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2014)

If you are running a line rjust cut the tubes out cover the open ends with sheet metal run the liner through and make a sheet metal blockoff plate.  As far as attaching to the stove you will need a appliance adapter and some stainless l brackets slide the adapter into the stove and attach it with the brackets.  You really should insulate the liner to.   10' is pretty short you might have weak draft and might end up having to add height to it but it might work at 10'


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## LiamK (Sep 27, 2014)

Thanks for the input, much appreciated! (First time I've worked with a wood-stove.) I'm googling "blockoff plate" now, I see some good discussions on it, tks. (E.g., on this forum, there are detailed instructions on how to make one) Could I use rock-wool instead of sheet metal, to seal up the damper area? Might be easier to fit. (I'll be cutting out the damper in any case -- it is also rusted out, including where the damper-handle should attach to the damper.)
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/another-block-off-plate-install-with-pics.71281/

I was thinking of leaving 3 of the 4 heatilator tubes in place (and seating the insert slightly (about 6") to the left, where the liner can fit up past the middle-left rusted-tube that I cut out). My thinking is that even with 3 of 4 tubes the heatilator-box will still help to increase warm-air circulation, per the original heatilator intent. Bad idea?

Yes, my plan for insulation is to use rock-wool batts, cutting a 6" diameter hole in the middle of 15.25"x11.5" pieces of batts (my chimney flue is a rectangular 15.5" x 11.5"), threading and sliding these one at a time down the liner, and tamping down each one with a matching piece of wood on long handles. I think 28 such pieces (7 batts) will fill the entire chimney-flue around the s.s. liner.

Are there any major problems with seating the insert back in further than it was originally designed for, and not walling it off with the metal front panels that came with the stove? I don't need to, but there's plenty of room inside the firebox, and it would create a few more inches of room on the hearth if I did. Presumably this would radiate a little less heat into the room, but maybe worth the tradeoff, and this might be compensated for by increased radiation if I don't use the metal front-panels to wall it off. (I.e., I guess I'm asking how important is the safety-function that the front metal-facing panels perform? I suppose it would be if creosote somehow ignited inside the firebox, but I will clean it all very thoroughly before installing, and no new creosote nor other flammables should enter that firebox area.)


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2014)

No the surround serves no functional purpose.  You should really use appropriate chimney insulation it is tested and ul listed for the purpose.  Rock wool will work but wil void the ul listing of the liner.


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## LiamK (Sep 27, 2014)

Good to know re the surround/front-panels, tks! 
I'll look for an inexpensive chimney insulation to wrap the liner with. I might go ahead and fill the chimney with rock-wool (Roxul) anyway, per above, just to seal it up, reduce down-draft, keep liner warm to enhance updraft, etc. Thanks again for your suggestions!


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## LiamK (Oct 4, 2014)

W00t! Three cheers for Mr. B.B. at Travis Industries (they now own Avalon), for digging up an old manual for the 1985-1986 Avalon AVB-800. Thank you! I can email it if someone is interested. 

I gotta say, that speaks *really* highly of them, in my book, that they stand behind their products even many years later, and offer great consumer service. As soon as I can afford a new wood stove, I will look very closely at Avalon new models (and/or Travis' other product lines)!   

The reason they don't have the manual online is because Travis didn't purchase Avalon until 1987 or so, I gather. 

Times have changed, e.g. now it is considered mandatory to put in a direct chimney liner for a fireplace insert (to get proper updraft, avoid downdraft, etc.).

Apparently, fuel efficiency didn’t come into play until 1988 when EPA introduced their first standards, so no info (yet) on the AVB-800's fuel efficiency.


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## Kirkstir (Oct 28, 2014)

Great information, I also have this stove in a house I bought which is operating wonderfully.  I tried to have the pipe cleaned only to find out it has no pipe in the chimney.  From your post it sounds like a stove pipe was not required for direct chimney venting in the early 80's.  I am trying to research the stove to see if the installation is safe and have a stove guy coming out in a week or so and the 1985-1986 Avalon AVB-800 manual would be great.

Can you email to 
Kirkstir@whoever.com

Thanks!


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## LiamK (Nov 13, 2014)

Hi Kirkstir,

Attached to this comment is the original Avalon AVB 800 Installation and Operation Manual, for use by you and others who stumble upon this thread. I hope it is still useful to you; I'll email you it as well. Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier. I've also included p.12 (fig. 9) here as a .jpg for ease of reference, per my questions below.

Even though the 1986 manual says "Avalon inserts may be installed with or without positive chimney connection," by 2014 my newbie sense of the clear consensus is that a positive connection via a stainless-steel chimney-liner (6" for the AVB-800) is by far the best way to go. (It is now required for new installations.)

*I could really use your help on something: mine is missing *all* the internal metal parts, alas.* From page 12, it is clear that I'm missing: the firebrick baffle _retainer_ (aka baffle brick retainer, aka masonry baffle retainer), the impinger plate (aka impingement plate), the push-rod, and one 'black' brick.

Is yours complete? If so, could you possibly take pics, and post here or email me them, of your internal workings? E.g. a pic from the front looking in and up to either side (one pic with the door open, one with the door or push-rod pushed closed if possible) would really be helpful. *VERY much appreciated!!* (To upload photos into your comment, click on the bottom-right link for "Upload a File", select the file and upload it, and then afterward on the bottom left click on either "Thumbnail" or "Full-Image" and it will insert your choice wherever the cursor is. I used Full Image, below.) Without the baffle and impinger I lose most of the heat up the flue/chimney, and it emits more effluent, so I've really got to create some replacement parts. The baffle is easy enough, the impinger is not too much harder.

*Or if you can't send pics,* then referring to Figure 9 (on p.12), is the _"impinger plate"_ an L-shaped iron angle plate on a rod, that hangs down from (and pivots on) the upper-side pivot hangers? Not too hard to replicate, but a few measurements would *really help* on design. E.g., what are the approximate dimensions of the impinger's "L"? From Fig 9 it looks like maybe 3" x 1.5" (and maybe 21.5" long, welded to a rod that is about 22.5" long to fit into the pivot hangers?)? When the door is closed, it looks like the push-rod pushes up the impinger-plate. Question: does the bottom of the impinger-plate swing up and touch the bottom-edge of the baffle-brick-retainer? Or does it swing up further to be parallel with the upper-edge of the baffle-bricks? Or is there a gap left open there? (It's not clear to me from Fig 9.)

I'm guessing that Fig 9 shows the door open, with push-rod extended out/down, and the impinger-plate swung down into position by gravity (thereby opening up more directly the fire's path to the flue and also preventing prevent smoke from entering the room). The figure just does not show the open-door. I think the push-rod and impinger-plate are not mechanically attached, is that correct?

For the _brick-baffle-retainer_, I think it would work to just use an L-shaped iron angle bar (1"x1"x36" is only $6.50 at a box store), cut to length, and lean the 5 firebricks against it? (I'm temporarily using re-bar for now, as shown in the photo below). Again, what are the dimensions of the "L? Maybe 1" x 1" x 22.5"? Or is the baffle-brick retainer a more complicated design? For step #7, I see the 'spacer' piece, horizontally along the back middle of the stove, but what does it mean to "sit in front of the spacer"? E.g., do they just mean the rear edge of these baffle bricks should be resting on top of the lower-back bricks (step 4), as shown in the pic, with the spacer touching them in the middle of their ends, rather than the bricks sitting on top of this spacer?  Also, why is the middle brick supposed to be 'black' -- is it a different size or material?  )

*Many thanks again for any help or input *you can offer, very much appreciated! Hopefully some other AVB-800 owners will find this thread useful, as well. I love where the manual says "computer modeled combustion system" -- ooooo, ahhhh, that was pretty sophisticated for 1986!   It still seems like a decent little stove/insert.






p. 12: In case the .jpg is hard to read, it says:_ > > >
"Part of your stove's computer modeled combustion system is the firebrick baffle. This baffle not only holds valuable heat within the unit, it also retains the heat and helps ignite gases and particules passing over it before they can leave the appliance. This is commonly called secondary combustion and makes the appliance burn cleaner and more efficiently. This combustion system is also aided by an automatic impingment plate [is this plate part of the baffle? different?] that extends the flame path increasing efficiency when the door is closed. When the door is opened, it swings open to remove smoke from the unit keeping flames and smoke from coming out of the door, a very effective safety feature.
Assembly instructions: 
1) Install push rod 'long' side through tube from back side.  
2) Install impinger plate (see drawing) position pivot pins in hangers. 
[Steps #3-6 : no problems, just install fire bricks.]
7) Install baffle brick retainer in hangers and fill with brick, use 'black' brick in the middle. Make sure baffle brick sits in front of spacer."  < < <_




Kirkstir said:


> the 1985-1986 Avalon AVB-800 manual would be great. Can you email to


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## LiamK (Dec 9, 2014)

Just an update, for anyone else who has or acquires an Avalon AVB-800. I was able to hand-make the internal parts very easily. I'm a newbie so I'm not offering this as advice, simply relaying what I did, and how, in case this interests others. I'll leave it to the experts to chime in with opinions and advice. 

As noted above, none of the internal 'workings' of my insert came with it (except for the damper). So I had to make my own. Turns out it was *much* easier than I expected! If you are comfortable cutting and drilling 1/8" holes in a 2"x1/8" piece of metal (using a hand-held hacksaw works just fine), then you can do this. I used the drawing in the manual (attached to my prior comment) as a rough guide. (Making the damper piece would have been much more difficult, especially without specs or a model.)

There are three basic 'parts' to make: 1) the brick baffle (5 firebricks resting on a 1" angle metal retainer), 2) an "impinger plate," and 3) the push-rod (that pushes the impinger-plate closed). I'll address these in turn.

*Materials needed from a hardware store:*
(be sure to use iron or steel for all parts; not zinc or aluminum, which melt):
1x1 x1/8 metal "angle" bar, at least 24" long (for the brick baffle retainer)
2x2 x1/8 metal angle, at least 24" long
2 x 1/8 flat metal, at least 24" long
1/2" steel rod, at least 36" long, maybe 48"
1/8" steel rod, only need about 12"  (or: you can use steel or iron nails)
3 stainless-steel lock-washers sized to closely fit over 1/2" rod. Do not use zinc.
3 stainless-steel nuts and bolts, roughly 1/2" or 3/4" long, roughly #10 size (to attach flat bar to 2x2 angle). Do not use zinc.
firebricks: enough to line the inside of stove (back, bottom, front, left, right), and 5 more bricks for brick baffle on top. (half-height bricks) Get 2-3 extra in case you break any.
Optional: get an extra hacksaw blade and maybe a new 1/8" drill bit while you are there.
Total cost: less than $30.


*Tools needed: *
hacksaw
drill with good bit to drill through 1/8 iron bars
hammer
bench-vice (helpful; or use vice-grips)
screwdriver and wrench to attach nuts/bolts
metal-file (optional)


First, line the stove with firebricks (back, bottom, front, left, right), leaving 5 bricks for the baffle.


*1) Brick baffle: *so easy.
a) Just measure and cut the 1x1x1/8 angle bar to snugly fit the retainer-hangers located on each side. (From memory I think it was 22.5", but measure to be sure.) Go ahead and put it in place.
b) You will need to cut one of the firebricks a little narrower (the long way). Fit 4 bricks in, 2 on each side, then measure and mark how much you need to cut off the middle 5th brick. You can use a hacksaw, score it at least 1/4" all the way around then tap it with a hammer. Go ahead and put the bricks in place, making sure they are seated snugly (especially in the middle). The back edge of the baffle bricks sit in front of the 'spacer', on top of the back row of firebricks.


*2) Impinger plate*: much easier than it seems. (Caveat: I don't know the exact factory dimensions or design, so this is a make-shift. No promises nor guarantees implied, this is just what I did.)
a) cut the 1/2" rod to fit into the impinger-hangers on each side. It should be a little loose to allow it to roll, so maybe 22.25". With a metal-file, you can round the ends a bit, to allow it to roll easily.
b) cut both the 2x2x1/8 angle and the 2x1/8 flat metal a little shorter than the rod (to clear the hangers), maybe 22"? I can't remember exactly.
c) create three 2" pins, using the 1/8" steel bar. (Or if you have 1/8" nails, then cut off the pointed end, leaving the head on and a 2" shaft.) If making your own, then grip in a vice and beat a head on one end using a hammer.
d) place the 1/2" rod in the elbow of the angle and mark where you will drill 3 holes evenly spaced, into which later you will insert pins/nails to hold the rod in place but allow it to spin freely. I.e., roughly 9/16" away from the inside angle corner. (This design allows the plate to pivot in two ways: on the hangers and cradled in the pins.) Remove the rod and drill these holes for pins.
e) Next, drill 3 more holes on the opposite side of the angle that you drilled holes for the pins, about half-way to the edge, evenly spaced, and leaving an inch or so space away from the pins' holes (so that you can tighten bolts placed in this second set of holes). You will use these holes to bolt the flat piece to the angle piece.
f) The next step is to drill 3 holes in the flat piece, matching the second set of 3 holes in the angle. You will use these to bolt the flat piece on the 'outside' (convex) of the angle, so that gravity helps swing the impinger-plate down and forward when the door is opened._ (I don't remember the exact measurement/placement I used -- maybe about 3/4" down into the flat piece?? -- and I'm not sure of the exact original design anyway. I just guessed, based on the crude drawing in the manual. I did it so that when it is in place and the door is closed, the bottom of the impinger plate touches and overhangs the bottom of the brick-baffle retainer by about 1/4". Perhaps it should be flush?, or perhaps even fit up to the top edge of the baffle? I don't know -- I am hoping someone who has the original hardware  will post pics!) _In order to line up the holes properly, I suggest drilling just one hole on the flat piece at first (lining it up by placing the angle on top), then bolt the flat piece to the angle using that first hole, and then drill a second hole again using one of the angle holes as your guide, and bolt it, then drill the 3rd and 4th holes and bolt them.
g) Now see if it fits in the stove's hangers. (I left the pins "as is" at first, to make it easier to get in and out. Once I was sure of the fit, and finished with the push-rod, and that it all works, then later I bent the pins with a hammer to help keep the plate attached to the 1/2" rod.)


*3) 1/2" Push-rod*: again, much easier than it seems. The challenge is to cut it to the correct length -- I'm afraid I didn't take measurements, but you can cut a pencil or wooden dowel as a test model.
a) cut the 1/2" rod to length -- the goal is that when the door is closed, the push-rod is pushed up against the impinger-plate, swinging it closed. If your push-rod is too short, it will not close the impinger-plate. If it is too long, the door will not close or you will break the fire-glass if you force it (so be careful!!). I cut one too short at first, then my second one was just right.  (Again, I rounded off the ends a little, using a metal-file.)  
b) Once you've cut it, a simple way to keep the push-rod in place is to crimp a few lock-washers onto it. (I used a bench-vice; vice-grips would work. Squeeze just enough to bend and close the lock-washer a little bit.) The placement does not need to be exact -- maybe 1" from one end? Near enough to the impinger-plate to allow room for it to slide down when the door is open, but not so near the end that it slides way out and gets in the way when the door is open and you're loading wood. Maybe 1" or so should be sticking out by the door when opened. I used a bench-vice to squeeze the lock-washers on, one at a time. The bench-vice also lets you position them easily, by slipping the push-rod down into the vice suspended by the washers (on either side), you can then tap the push-rod lightly with a hammer to position the washers.


*Put it all together inside the stove*. It's a little tight, but not too bad to wiggle things around and get it in place. (I think the push-rod has to go in first, then the impinger-plate).

I've attached some photos, in thumbnails. Please let me know if it would help if I write labels on these, or take additional pics.

If anyone else has an Avalon AVB-800, we'd all welcome seeing photos of the original impingement-plate and push-rod, especially pics of where the plate meets the brick-baffle!

These internal parts are meant to play crucial roles for your stove. The brick-baffle retains heat, creates a secondary combustion of hot gases overhead, and slows down the heat from escaping up your chimney. The impinger-plate should pivot down on its 1/2" rod when you open the door: this allows fire, smoke and hot gases to escape faster up the chimney rather than bursting forward into the room and burning you. (Always open the damper wide open first, also, before you open the door on a fire, to help prevent flash.)

Nice design, for a 28 year-old stove/fireplace-insert! 

I'm very pleased with the Avalon AVB-800 so far. I'm sure it is not as efficient as modern stoves that cost $1,000+, but I got mine free, and its a heckuva lot better at heating the house than just the open fireplace. It was relatively easy and inexpensive (< $30) to make by hand the replacements for its internal parts. Mine draws well (on 12 feet of a vertical 6" liner), burns well, the damper works well (to adjust the burn rate and to retain heat) and it throws out a lot of heat. Sometimes I'll point a tiny little fan at it, to help circulate hot air in the house. More often than not my boiler doesn't even kick in when the Avalon is burning.


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## LiamK (Jul 11, 2017)

Just an update to report that my Avalon AVB-800 stove/insert has been working great, and provides enough heat for the whole 1400 sq ft single-story house. (A fan in the ceiling above it helps spread the heat.) 

I learned a few more things about this model: it came as either a free-standing wood stove or with the pedestal removed to use it as a fireplace insert (which is what I do). It does have a secondary burn chamber, which helps with efficiency. As the manual says: "_the baffle not only holds valuable heat within the unit, it also retains the heat and helps ignite gases and particules passing over it before they can leave the appliance. This is commonly called secondary combustion and makes the appliance burn cleaner and more efficiently. An automatic impingment plate extends the flame path increasing efficiency_." The design was ahead of its time.  It also has a "cool wash air intake" which helps keep the glass stay clean.

I've had no problems with the draw/draft, despite the relatively short 11' liner insert (measured from stove-top to top of liner). (Almost no bends in it, beyond a little 'wiggle' to get through where the old fireplace flue was.) All good.


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