# RE: Brake rotors



## firefighterjake (Sep 19, 2019)

I need to put new rotors on my wife's Legacy. Any certain brands considered better than others. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the coated type as she doesn't drive the Subaru as often as she should.


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## bholler (Sep 19, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> I need to put new rotors on my wife's Legacy. Any certain brands considered better than others. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the coated type as she doesn't drive the Subaru as often as she should.


Yes there are absolutely better rotors available.  But unless she is going to be pushing the car really hard I don't see much point.


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## johneh (Sep 19, 2019)

You can buy some very good quality rotors. But why you can buy 
a good set for half the price. The next time the pads wear out you 
will have to buy rotors again not so many years ago you could machine 
rotors and reuse. Nowadays they make them so thin that machining 
is out of the question


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## lsucet (Sep 19, 2019)

johneh said:


> You can buy some very good quality rotors. But why you can buy
> a good set for half the price. The next time the pads wear out you
> will have to buy rotors again not so many years ago you could machine
> rotors and reuse. Nowadays they make them so thin that machining
> is out of the question


We resurface rotors every day. Brake places prefer to replace them due to give the car back to customer into the advertised time and be able to do many cars in a day for the sake of make profit.  Working for a dealer we do resurface rotors if it will clean up into specs. It is up to how the place handle the business. Regardless which brand and quality you should resurface the rotors if you are performing a brake job. Just saying. I will recommend going with OEM if you don't mind. I don't care about who claims its product perform better and this and that etc. I always use OEM parts and have good results. Working for a dealer over the years I have been seeing horrible situation and the solution always have been going back to OEM. This is in everything, not just brakes.


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## bholler (Sep 19, 2019)

lsucet said:


> We resurface rotors every day. Brake places prefer to replace them due to give the car back to customer into the advertised time and be able to do many cars in a day for the sake of make profit.  Working for a dealer we do resurface rotors if it will clean up into specs. It is up to how the place handle the business. Regardless which brand and quality you should resurface the rotors if you are performing a brake job. Just saying. I will recommend going with OEM if you don't mind. I don't care about who claims its product perform better and this and that etc. I always use OEM parts and have good results. Working for a dealer over the years I have been seeing horrible situation and the solution always have been going back to OEM. This is in everything, not just brakes.


There are also many aftermarket parts that are far better than oem.


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## peakbagger (Sep 20, 2019)

I bought some coated "high quality" rotors for my fiesta two years ago. The hub may last forever with the coating but the outer diameter is still rotting inwards screwing up the surface. I am not impressed. Rotors are cheap (less money than the local garage charges to reface a set) and expect the next set will be the last set I buy before the car gets replaced so I do not plan to pay  premium for coating the next time.


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## festerw (Sep 20, 2019)

I've had good luck with Centric brake parts, not the cheapest and not the most expensive either.


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## johneh (Sep 20, 2019)

lsucet said:


> We resurface rotors every day. Brake places prefer to replace them due to give the car back to customer into the advertised time and be able to do many cars in a day for the sake of make profit. Working for a dealer we do resurface rotors if it will clean up into specs. It is up to how the place handle the business. Regardless which brand and quality you should resurface the rotors if you are performing a brake job. Just saying. I will recommend going with OEM if you don't mind. I don't care about who claims its product perform better and this and that etc. I always use OEM parts and have good results. Working for a dealer over the years I have been seeing horrible situation and the solution always have been going back to OEM. This is in everything, not just brakes.


When I was in the trade we resurfaced Rotors when we could but at that time the charge to resurface was 20 dollars per. nowadays with labour rates in the 70 to over a hundred dollars an hour, it is much cheaper to replace with 20 dollar rotors than to resurface. 
Maybe thing are different in the States than they are in the Great White North.


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## zrock (Sep 20, 2019)

Coated rotors will only last a few drives until the coating wears off then they are just plain old rotors. Ceramics are nice for not rusting, brake dust, and not squealing, but i find their braking is lacking i just put a good set on my truck and i really hate them. The heigh quality metallic pads are great but they will burn through your rotors before they wear out causing you to replace everything anyway. I usually go with oem and a semi or non metallic pad and im usually quite happy with the performance. Resurfacing is a lost cause most shops stopped doing it because the material in most rotors is not the same quality as it was 30 years ago. The resurface them and then weeks/months later the customer comes back with a vibration when braking due to warped rotors. Then depending on the shop they are eating the labor charge and possibly the new rotor cost to replace. In my area you will not find a working brake machine in any shop


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## lsucet (Sep 20, 2019)

zrock said:


> Coated rotors will only last a few drives until the coating wears off then they are just plain old rotors. Ceramics are nice for not rusting, brake dust, and not squealing, but i find their braking is lacking i just put a good set on my truck and i really hate them. The heigh quality metallic pads are great but they will burn through your rotors before they wear out causing you to replace everything anyway. I usually go with oem and a semi or non metallic pad and im usually quite happy with the performance. Resurfacing is a lost cause most shops stopped doing it because the material in most rotors is not the same quality as it was 30 years ago. The resurface them and then weeks/months later the customer comes back with a vibration when braking due to warped rotors. Then depending on the shop they are eating the labor charge and possibly the new rotor cost to replace. In my area you will not find a working brake machine in any shop


I understand, with the cost/prices of new rotors now a day there is no need and it will be time consuming more when they have many cars a days line up for brake Jobs. The mechanics can be more productive for the same pay rate. They don't like to pay the tech for be standing looking how the rotors turns plus another ones waiting for this one to finish. Lot has to see with being productive. We dealers, when it is under warranty, we need to provide measurements before/after and between plus address the cause of the concern and the reason of the shudder. All that has to be documented. Not just put parts on it or the claims are not paid by Chrysler.  It is a little different but including customer pay, we resurface rotors if it is into specs. I do see the point and I get it. We have many problems with people having squeaky noise after they pulled a trailer thru the weekend. Most have to see with aftermarket rotors and pads. Just saying.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

johneh said:


> You can buy some very good quality rotors. But why you can buy
> a good set for half the price. The next time the pads wear out you
> will have to buy rotors again not so many years ago you could machine
> rotors and reuse. Nowadays they make them so thin that machining
> is out of the question


It's not because the reasons you think. It's a manufacturing tolerance thing.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

johneh said:


> You can buy some very good quality rotors. But why you can buy
> a good set for half the price. The next time the pads wear out you
> will have to buy rotors again not so many years ago you could machine
> rotors and reuse. Nowadays they make them so thin that machining
> is out of the question


Why would you have to replace the rotors every time you do the pads?


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

As others have said, coatings are a waste. Get whatever is on the lower end of price that still has a warranty lasting more than a year. You probably won't replace them again.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Why would you have to replace the rotors every time you do the pads?


You should actually turn them on the vehicle before replacing the pads.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> You should actually turn them on the vehicle before replacing the pads.


Yeah I know but I easily get 2 or 3 pad changes out of a set of rotors with nothing more than scuffing the surface of the rotor.   With all the hills and winding roads here we go through pads pretty quick.  I also put slotted rotors on pretty much everything but off-road stuff to help reduce heat and warping.  If not the rotors would be warped and need changed every time.  I am sure the way I drive and the loads we carry have allot to do with that also.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yeah I know but I easily get 2 or 3 pad changes out of a set of rotors with nothing more than scuffing the surface of the rotor.   With all the hills and winding roads here we go through pads pretty quick.  I also put slotted rotors on pretty much everything but off-road stuff to help reduce heat and warping.  If not the rotors would be warped and need changed every time.  I am sure the way I drive and the loads we carry have allot to do with that also.


Rotors don't warp, it's a lateral runout issue. This is a pedantic distinction, but one I try to correct when I can. If your brake system gets hot enough to soften the rotors, you have far more issues. Turning the rotors on the car takes up for any lateral runout between the hub, bearing, and rotor. Ultimately excessive lateral runout will create a condition that looks and feels like a warped rotor, but it was not created by heat. Another culprit to messing up rotors is improper wheel torque. Slotted rotors prevent brake fade more than anything else.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Rotors don't warp, it's a lateral runout issue. This is a pedantic distinction, but one I try to correct when I can. If your brake system gets hot enough to soften the rotors, you have far more issues. Turning the rotors on the car takes up for any lateral runout between the hub, bearing, and rotor. Ultimately excessive lateral runout will create a condition that looks and feels like a warped rotor, but it was not created by heat. Another culprit to messing up rotors is improper wheel torque. Slotted rotors prevent brake fade more than anything else.


Ok so when driving down the side of a mountain in the fully loaded van and I feel the brakes start to vibrate because they are no longer flat.  What is that?   It happens all the time to us.  If you pay attention and let off for a couple seconds you can keep them cool enough that they go back to normal.  But if you dont they will stay that way.  You can take them off and lay them on a flat surface and you can tell they are no longer flat with a feeler gauge.  

If you sit at the bottom of some of the mountains here at night you can see many rotors especially on trucks glowing.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Ok so when driving down the side of a mountain in the fully loaded van and I feel the brakes start to vibrate because they are no longer flat.  What is that?   It happens all the time to us.  If you pay attention and let off for a couple seconds you can keep them cool enough that they go back to normal.  But if you dont they will stay that way.  You can take them off and lay them on a flat surface and you can tell they are no longer flat with a feeler gauge.
> 
> If you sit at the bottom of some of the mountains here at night you can see many rotors especially on trucks glowing.



The uneven surface is from lateral runout, not warpage. Brakes glowing and brakes warping are not the same. Brakes glow in motorsports all the time without warping.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> The uneven surface is from lateral runout, not warpage. Brakes glowing and brakes warping are not the same. Brakes glow in motorsports all the time without warping.


Yes I know they do. And those rotors don't last very long at all either.  

Regardless of what you call it I have overheated rotors many times which caused them to no longer be flat.  And yes I torque my lugs every time to spec.


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## lsucet (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Ok so when driving down the side of a mountain in the fully loaded van and I feel the brakes start to vibrate because they are no longer flat.  What is that?   It happens all the time to us.  If you pay attention and let off for a couple seconds you can keep them cool enough that they go back to normal.  But if you dont they will stay that way.  You can take them off and lay them on a flat surface and you can tell they are no longer flat with a feeler gauge.
> 
> If you sit at the bottom of some of the mountains here at night you can see many rotors especially on trucks glowing.


It is called, BRAKE SHUDDER and yes, it feels more at 45 - 50 mph and up under braking and when it start overheating  ( normal heating due to friction ). But if you just replace pads and dont turn the rotors the problem will not go away.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

lsucet said:


> It is called, BRAKE SHUDDER and yes, it feels more at 45 - 50 mph and up under braking and when it start overheating  ( normal heating due to friction ). But if you just replace pads and dont turn the rotors the problem will not go away.


Yes of course changing the pads won't fix that.  It is a problem with the rotors not the pads.  But there are many times we will wear through a set of pads and there is nothing wrong with the rotors.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yes of course changing the pads won't fix that.  It is a problem with the rotors not the pads.  But there are many times we will wear through a set of pads and there is nothing wrong with the rotors.



That means everything was working the way it was supposed to. Rotors should last forever.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> That means everything was working the way it was supposed to. Rotors should last forever.


Yes as long as you don't over heat them or have a pad come apart scoring them really badly.


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## lsucet (Sep 20, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yes of course changing the pads won't fix that.  It is a problem with the rotors not the pads.  But there are many times we will wear through a set of pads and there is nothing wrong with the rotors.


I know what you mean. There is a specs and if is in specs is fine, just is rare those times when it is.


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## begreen (Sep 20, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> That means everything was working the way it was supposed to. Rotors should last forever.


Should and actually are separate things. Sometimes brake systems are under-designed. Early Honda Accords had weak rotors that were undersized for the car. I pick them out because I owned 2,  though this is not unique. We live in hilly and mountainous country. These early Accords were notorious for rotor failure after having to brake a lot coming down a steep mountain or long hills. You could feel it both in brake fade as they got hot and increasing shudder afterward. My last 1981 Accord got so bad after coming down a local, curvy hill that I had to drive it straight to the shop afterward. The car braked fine right before coming down that hill. I should also note that these cars went through brake pads faster than any car I have owned since. Always replaced with factory parts.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

begreen said:


> Should and actually are separate things. Sometimes brake systems are under-designed. Early Honda Accords had weak rotors that were undersized for the car. I pick them out because I owned 2,  though this is not unique. We live in hilly and mountainous country. These early Accords were notorious for rotor failure after having to brake a lot coming down a steep mountain or long hills. You could feel it both in brake fade as they got hot and increasing shudder afterward. My last 1981 Accord got so bad after coming down a local, curvy hill that I had to drive it straight to the shop afterward. The car braked fine right before coming down that hill. I should also note that these cars went through brake pads faster than any car I have owned since. Always replaced with factory parts.


80s and early 90s gm brakes were just as bad.


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## begreen (Sep 20, 2019)

I'm glad to say that my GM Volt brakes may last longer than I do.


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## bholler (Sep 20, 2019)

begreen said:


> I'm glad to say that my GM Volt brakes may last longer than I do.


GM seems to have finally figured out how to properly size brakes.  All of the 2000 or later gm stuff I have had has had pretty good brakes.


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## peakbagger (Sep 20, 2019)

Mine usually start rusting on the outside edge and works its way into the turned area.


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## saewoody (Sep 20, 2019)

I am confident my 2004 Suburban 2500 will out-brake my 2005 Nissan Sentra under any circumstances. Although I have to admit that it doesn’t have a stock set up. It had slotted and drilled rotors with the pads to match at all four wheels. However I have had 3 different Suburbans (01, 03, 04) all with stock brakes and they have all had good braking. 

On the OPs original topic, I almost always run a good quality ceramic pad and have great results. The Wagners and Wearevers have always served me well. Raybestos too, and ACDelco.


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## PaulOinMA (Sep 21, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> Mine usually start rusting on the outside edge and works its way into the turned area.



Rust a problem here in MA, too.  I replace rotors when I do pads since I have the wheel off, and they're cheap enough.  I've been using OEM rotors.

I have coffee Friday mornings with the old guys from my wife's former church.  There's a brake supply place here that it looks like the local garages use.  They get their brake parts there.





__





						automotivebrakewarehouse.com
					





					automotivebrakewarehouse.com
				




They have three locations in MA.

I've been there a couple of times, last time for a brake parts kit after I received the wrong one from an online place.  I always see people picking up lots of brake parts and piles of items for pick-up by garages.


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## PaulOinMA (Sep 21, 2019)

saewoody said:


> …  Wagners …



The person that does great Ford service videos posted that Wagner ThermoQuiet is what Ford deaers use if they don't have Motorcraft available.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 21, 2019)

Drilled and slotted rotors reduce pad surface area to reduce weight and heat. You have a less durable rotor that is harder on the pad. Unless you are racing, blanks are fine. Maybe if you drive up and down mountains all day slotted rotors, like Bholler uses, might be an advantage. Otherwise drilled rotors have much less strength than blanks.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 21, 2019)

PaulOinMA said:


> The person that does great Ford service videos posted that Wagner ThermoQuiet is what Ford deaers use if they don't have Motorcraft available.


Wagner makes a lot of OEM pads as well and probably makes them for Ford Motorcraft private label.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 21, 2019)

Rust in the turned area also doesn't matter since it will get scrubbed by the pads. A bigger issue is the vanes getting clogged by rust. This is where the ceramic and zinc coated rotors do better. Another trick is to just paint them with high temp enamel when you put new pads and rotors on and just let the pads clean the rotor for you.


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## bholler (Sep 21, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> Drilled and slotted rotors reduce pad surface area to reduce weight and heat. You have a less durable rotor that is harder on the pad. Unless you are racing, blanks are fine. Maybe if you drive up and down mountains all day slotted rotors, like Bholler uses, might be an advantage. Otherwise drilled rotors have much less strength than blanks.


Yeah I don't like drilled


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## fbelec (Sep 23, 2019)

i agree with not changing the rotors if not needed. my last E250 was a 96 i bought it with 14000 miles on it i never replace the rotors until 200,000 miles and i had to because it rusted so bad in between the front and back surface the vanes that the face came off of one side. i never had warped rotors on it and used to get 50,000 miles out of a set of pads. jake a friend of mine decided to change his rotors on his 2010 outback with drilled and slotted rotors for more braking power. he felt his 88 crown vic stopped faster than the outback. he said the slotted and drilled rotors stopped way better than the original but warped really fast and had to get rid of them. he's back to oem


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## SpaceBus (Sep 23, 2019)

fbelec said:


> i agree with not changing the rotors if not needed. my last E250 was a 96 i bought it with 14000 miles on it i never replace the rotors until 200,000 miles and i had to because it rusted so bad in between the front and back surface the vanes that the face came off of one side. i never had warped rotors on it and used to get 50,000 miles out of a set of pads. jake a friend of mine decided to change his rotors on his 2010 outback with drilled and slotted rotors for more braking power. he felt his 88 crown vic stopped faster than the outback. he said the slotted and drilled rotors stopped way better than the original but warped really fast and had to get rid of them. he's back to oem



Sounds like poor quality rotors, also they would be worse at braking unless he got a racing pad.


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## peakbagger (Sep 23, 2019)

The local shops will typically not pass rotors that are rotting from the outside edge inwards. That's what I have seen over the years when I have had to change rotors is the outer diameter of the friction surface is no longer shiny but has rust pits in it. Sometimes they can be turned to clean it up but as discussed earlier the cost for labor to turn the rotor exceeds the cost for new rotor.  I was hoping the fancy coating on the outside edge would slow down this rot, IMO it doesn't. 

I do remember years ago that some European cars possible BMWs and VWs were supposed to be turned while mounted on the car it required a special factory tool but the claim was it was better. Given the price they charged it was better for their bottom line but not so sure it was noticeable for most folks.


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## vinny11950 (Sep 23, 2019)

Jake, I just installed Wagner rotors from RockAuto, $25 each, with some type of coating.  I went with their brake pads too.  They are real smooth, and quiet, and stop really well.  Around me, it is $50 to get an old rotor turned, so why do it when you can get 2 new ones for the same price.  Napa also gets good reviews in the Jeep forums.  I have had bad experiences with AZ rotors.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 23, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> The local shops will typically not pass rotors that are rotting from the outside edge inwards. That's what I have seen over the years when I have had to change rotors is the outer diameter of the friction surface is no longer shiny but has rust pits in it. Sometimes they can be turned to clean it up but as discussed earlier the cost for labor to turn the rotor exceeds the cost for new rotor.  I was hoping the fancy coating on the outside edge would slow down this rot, IMO it doesn't.
> 
> I do remember years ago that some European cars possible BMWs and VWs were supposed to be turned while mounted on the car it required a special factory tool but the claim was it was better. Given the price they charged it was better for their bottom line but not so sure it was noticeable for most folks.



It ultimately is better for the car and longevity of the brake and wheel bearing systems, but for most folks it's probably a wash.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 23, 2019)

Follow up: After checking out various sites, rotors and brakes, including many of the recommended brands I ended up going with a full set from PowerStop. I also opted for regular blanks vs. drilled/slotted as I was thinking blanks are fine for how my wife drives and I was a bit leery about how salt and grime might collect in the holes/slots. I checked out several brands and oddly enough found more than a few times that a brand or two would only offer rotors for the front or back, but not both, which seemed a bit odd.


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## AlbergSteve (Sep 25, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> Follow up: After checking out various sites, rotors and brakes, including many of the recommended brands I ended up going with a full set from PowerStop. I also opted for regular blanks vs. drilled/slotted as I was thinking blanks are fine for how my wife drives and I was a bit leery about how salt and grime might collect in the holes/slots. I checked out several brands and oddly enough found more than a few times that a brand or two would only offer rotors for the front or back, but not both, which seemed a bit odd.


Couldn't keep rotors on the wife's Civic from warping so I installed Powerstop drilled and slotted rotors and pads. The rotors are slightly noisier than blanks, but stopping is improved and after 18 months they're still smooth as silk.


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## semipro (Sep 26, 2019)

I have the hardest time keeping shops from over-torquing lug nuts despite repeated requests. 
I've actually taken videos of me using a large impact or breaker bar (trying) to get the lug nuts loose after shop service.
I now carry my torque wrench and socket with me when I pick up my vehicle so I can loosen and torque the lug nuts to spec before driving. I'm convinced that the over-torquing may result in warped rotors though I don't understand why.
I put this video on Youtube just so I could show shop owners what's going on.  The lug nut torque spec for that car is 77 ft-lb.  If the audio was better you'd hear the accompanying groaning/squeaking from the lug nuts.


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## bholler (Sep 26, 2019)

semipro said:


> I have the hardest time keeping shops from over-torquing lug nuts despite repeated requests.
> I've actually taken videos of me using a large impact or breaker bar (trying) to get the lug nuts loose after shop service.
> I now carry my torque wrench and socket with me when I pick up my vehicle so I can loosen and torque the lug nuts to spec before driving. I'm convinced that the over-torquing may result in warped rotors though I don't understand why.
> I put this video on Youtube just so I could show shop owners what's going on.  The lug nut torque spec for that car is 77 ft-lb.  If the audio was better you'd hear the accompanying groaning/squeaking from the lug nuts.



I don't think over tourquing will do it.  Uneven tourque will though


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## Ashful (Sep 26, 2019)

peakbagger said:


> Rotors are cheap (less money than the local garage charges to reface a set)...


Not always. List price on rotors for my car is $2268.00 if I buy them thru my dealer, although I have seen speed shops sell them as low as $1700 per set.

I also have issues with the local dealer over-torquing.  After complaining two separate times to the service manager, and both times being told I must be mistaken, I brought my torque wrench and showed him.  They had torqued the aluminum wheels on my truck to 160 - 165 lb.ft.!  Spec was 80 - 100 lb.ft.


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## lsucet (Sep 26, 2019)

Ashful said:


> Not always. List price on rotors for my car is $2268.00 if I buy them thru my dealer, although I have seen speed shops sell them as low as $1700 per set.
> 
> I also have issues with the local dealer over-torquing.  After complaining two separate times to the service manager, and both times being told I must be mistaken, I brought my torque wrench and showed him.  They had torqued the aluminum wheels on my truck to 160 - 165 lb.ft.!  Spec was 80 - 100 lb.ft.


There is a lot to it, if you have a good torque wrench I will say okay. What was the last time it was calibrated? What brand and from where you got it? Now it is for sure that many places and technicians just use the impact gun and don't torque the lug nuts correctly. I will give you that.


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## johneh (Sep 26, 2019)

In Ontario in order to get the Warranty for any woke done
with the wheels of. The rims have to be torqued to manufactures spec's
They also have to be retorqued after 100 K.  Aluminum wheels are known to loosen off
and needs a retorque.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 26, 2019)

They should at least be using torque limiters.


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## bholler (Sep 26, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> They should at least be using torque limiters.


Yeah should be.  But many don't.


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## PaulOinMA (Sep 26, 2019)

johneh said:


> ..  Aluminum wheels are known to loosen off and needs a retorque ...



Made me think of this old autocross video.  Wrong lug nuts.  Ouch!


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## semipro (Sep 26, 2019)

bholler said:


> I don't think over tourquing will do it.  Uneven tourque will though


From the folks that certify auto technicians: https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/brake-overtighten-lug-nuts.html


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2019)

I had a 1990 Chevy Lumina that would go through front brakes every 15,000 miles like clockwork. I got real good at changing them.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2019)

firefighterjake said:


> I need to put new rotors on my wife's Legacy. Any certain brands considered better than others. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the coated type as she doesn't drive the Subaru as often as she should.



Go to Rockauto.com it will give a huge selection, and I've not had anyone beat their prices.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 27, 2019)

bholler said:


> Why would you have to replace the rotors every time you do the pads?



I don't know this for a fact, but i do know that automakers are under constant pressure in increase fuel efficiency. Making rotors a throw away item saves a little weight which helps with mileage. Every little bit counts.


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## lsucet (Sep 27, 2019)

Sodbuster said:


> I don't know this for a fact, but i do know that automakers are under constant pressure in increase fuel efficiency. Making rotors a throw away item saves a little weight which helps with mileage. Every little bit counts.


We are talking here to one of the most important parts/areas of a vehicle. Brakes is not something to take so lightly and think that manufactures gain anything with cheap brake parts. We have contracts, with APD, State Police, and many government agencies around town. They used to use slatted rotors and special police pads Bla bla bla from wherever company..... Now we are doing their brakes and installing OEM parts and they are happy again. They don't come from factory with slatted rotors and they are built to be pursuing vehicles.


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2019)

lsucet said:


> We are talking here to one of the most important parts/areas of a vehicle. Brakes is not something to take so lightly and think that manufactures gain anything with cheap brake parts. We have contracts, with APD, State Police, and many government agencies around town. They used to use slatted rotors and special police pads Bla bla bla from wherever company..... Now we are doing their brakes and installing OEM parts and they are happy again. They don't come from factory with slatted rotors and they are built to be pursuing vehicles.


Yeah I have never been happy with wearever performance parts quality.  I always use baer rotors yes they cost more but they last way longer than anything else I have tried.   The only vehicles I don't put high quality slotted rotors on are off road stuff.


Everything I have seen about police package vehicles says they come direct from the factory with specialized brake systems.   Are you saying you take out the upgrades and go back to regular civilian parts or you use oem police package stuff?


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## lsucet (Sep 27, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yeah I have never been happy with wearever performance parts quality.  I always use baer rotors yes they cost more but they last way longer than anything else I have tried.   The only vehicles I don't put high quality slotted rotors on are off road stuff.
> 
> 
> Everything I have seen about police package vehicles says they come direct from the factory with specialized brake systems.   Are you saying you take out the upgrades and go back to regular civilian parts or you use oem police package stuff?


Police package OEM. The thing is that for years they used to do their own brakes at their shop and using some police aftermarket rotors and pads and were made for cop cars. But due to how hard they are always on the brakes, they used to have lots of problems too. Going back to OEM solved many issues with it.


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2019)

lsucet said:


> Police package OEM. The thing is that for years they used to do their own brakes at their shop and using some police aftermarket rotors and pads and were made for cop cars. But due to how hard they are always on the brakes, they used to have lots of problems too. Going back to OEM solved many issues with it.


Yes but their oem is already upgraded not what we get on the same car for civilian market.  The parts are still made for cop cars specifically.


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## lsucet (Sep 27, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yes but their oem is already upgraded not what we get on the same car for civilian market.  The parts are still made for cop cars specifically.


Upgrade is more about the size of the rotors, bigger calipers, wider pads but not the quality of the rotors and pads. Are the same for normal consumer quality wise just different shape/sizes etc.


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## bholler (Sep 27, 2019)

lsucet said:


> Upgrade is more about the size of the rotors, bigger calipers, wider pads but not the quality of the rotors and pads. Are the same for normal consumer quality wise just different shape/sizes etc.


According to Ford and Dodge both redesigned the venting on police package rotors as well to increase cooling ability.   Of course I would prefer to go with bigger rotors and calipers over slotted rotors but big brake kits aren't available for most of the vehicles I work on and if they were it would also mean bigger wheels.  So even if they were available it would cost upwards of $5000 to switch over.  When for around $1000 I can get a set of high quality performance slotted rotors that do a good job of dissipating heat.  I agree most cheap after market stuff is worse than oem.  But there is allot of really good stuff out there that work allot better than the original stuff.


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## lsucet (Sep 28, 2019)

bholler said:


> According to Ford and Dodge both redesigned the venting on police package rotors as well to increase cooling ability.


I don't doubt it but that is something that every manufacturer do, they improve performance of different components/parts for latest/newer models. That is not just on brakes. Can be engine hp, torque, better software, cooling system etc. Previous models sometimes take advantage of those changes. It doesn't mean they have problems. It is just the evolution of everything. If it is a problem and more about something like brakes I am almost sure they will do a recall or something about it.


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## PaulOinMA (Sep 28, 2019)

Since we're discussing police cars … what type of pads and rotors are used on mail trucks?  Or are they still using drums?  What is used on a vehicle that drives a short distance and stops all day every day?


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## lsucet (Sep 28, 2019)

PaulOinMA said:


> Since we're discussing police cars … what type of pads and rotors are used on mail trucks?  Or are they still using drums?  What is used on a vehicle that drives a short distance and stops all day every day?



UPS p7 and p10 use brake pads and rotors, others models I don't know. They always make noise and I heard that is the cheap brake pads and rotors they install on their vehicle.
Now,  normal mail trucks sometimes they stop alot but they drive real low speed into neighborhood. I don't know what they use to be honest.


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## SpaceBus (Sep 28, 2019)

PaulOinMA said:


> Made me think of this old autocross video.  Wrong lug nuts.  Ouch!




How did he make it through tech?


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## SpaceBus (Sep 28, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yeah I have never been happy with wearever performance parts quality.  I always use baer rotors yes they cost more but they last way longer than anything else I have tried.   The only vehicles I don't put high quality slotted rotors on are off road stuff.
> 
> 
> Everything I have seen about police package vehicles says they come direct from the factory with specialized brake systems.   Are you saying you take out the upgrades and go back to regular civilian parts or you use oem police package stuff?



A friend of mine has been using a heavily modded mustang with Baer brakes (calipers, pads, and rotors) and he hates them. Maybe their products are better for trucks? My friend broke a few rotors, but they were drilled.


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## bholler (Sep 28, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> A friend of mine has been using a heavily modded mustang with Baer brakes (calipers, pads, and rotors) and he hates them. Maybe their products are better for trucks? My friend broke a few rotors, but they were drilled.


That is the first complaint I have heard about Baer.


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## festerw (Sep 28, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yes but their oem is already upgraded not what we get on the same car for civilian market.  The parts are still made for cop cars specifically.



It's got a *cop* motor, a 440-cubic-inch plant. It's got *cop* tires, *cop* suspension, *cop shocks*. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 29, 2019)

Sodbuster said:


> Go to Rockauto.com it will give a huge selection, and I've not had anyone beat their prices.



You're a few days late . . . ordered them early last week . . . but you are right. Even with shipping Rock Auto was quite a bit cheaper than every other place I looked.


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## Sodbuster (Sep 29, 2019)

They're be other stuff that breaks, never fails.


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