# How many here PLANT trees as well as cut them?



## Outdoorsman (Jan 6, 2008)

Don't get me wrong guys, I cut a good number of trees myself.  but I also planted 250 trees and shrubs this past year & expect I'll plant and additional 300+ this coming spring.  I'm working on a investment/wildlife tree area you see.

I also expect I'll cut a couple dozen trees down this next summer.  Ash trees, killed by the Emerald Ash Borer or American Elm tress that have died.  I always cut dead timber first.

I don't own a wood burner, but father & brother in laws do, as does a good friend at work.  So I help them out, and get in a great workout to.

So how many of you guys do plantings in your woodlots to improve the mix of trees or type of trees in your woodlots?  I'd also be interested in what types of trees you plant and find best for burning if different?

I'm planning on planting a mix of: hybrid Poplars, hybrid Walnut, Black Cherry, hybrid Oaks this coming spring.  Perhaps even some hybrid Chestnut trees if I can find some that are pretty close to the original native American Chestnut that the Chestnut blight killed a century ago.


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## DiscoInferno (Jan 6, 2008)

On our MI land the sugar/red maples propagate like weeds, and the beeches do OK, so no need to plant those.  The yellow birch I'm thinking of helping along by planting/transplanting and protecting from the deer.  Other than a few cherry trees, that's all the hardwood species nature has seen fit to grow on our property;  I hadn't really thought of trying to introduce anything new.


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## jebatty (Jan 6, 2008)

I plant lots of trees, but not specifically for future firewood. Over the last 12 years have planted more than 35,000 trees. Goal is long term lumber. My firewood is mostly slabs from pine after I saw the logs into lumber, as well as dead trees. Slabs and normal expiration provide more firewood than we can possibly burn. The pine slabs burn great in the wood gassifier (Tarm), but a little hotter than other wood. No creosote evident in the stack.


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## drizler (Jan 7, 2008)

We keep our place surrounded by trees though we live in the middle of a hay field.   I hate cutting down any of them.  They truly are the best neighbors.   We cut what has to be cut but replace whatever we can.


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## Outdoorsman (Jan 7, 2008)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> On our MI land the sugar/red maples propagate like weeds, and the beeches do OK, so no need to plant those.  The yellow birch I'm thinking of helping along by planting/transplanting and protecting from the deer.  Other than a few cherry trees, that's all the hardwood species nature has seen fit to grow on our property;  I hadn't really thought of trying to introduce anything new.



I hear you regarding those maple trees being like weeds.  Cherry are some of my favorite trees, good for wildlife, and about the best for any fire for a nice aroma.

If you've no oak trees, but do have some well drained loam or sand, some hybrid oaks are a great investment in the future.

Still don't grow as fast as the red maples, but faster than a sugar maple.  Bur-English is about the fastest growing of the different white oak hybrids.  Hawkins oaks, a cross between read & black oak are the fastest I know of for the rad oak side of the oaks family.


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## mikeathens (Jan 9, 2008)

I planted 200 white oaks two years ago, 200 pines, burr oaks, and white oaks one year ago, and 3000 white oak, red oak, and white paine this year, along with approx. 300 sprouting white oak acorns this year.

I don't like to cut healthy trees - most of my wood is coming from large fallen trees on my property - cut up a tall 18" red oak a few weeks ago, got a 24" black locust; still working on a 48" red oak and 24" hickory.  Neighbors usually let me get their fallen trees.


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## Eric Johnson (Jan 9, 2008)

Hardwoods usually propagate with no problem after you thin out the bigger trees. White pine, which is native to most of the Northeast, is another really good self-propagator. They say if you want to encourage yellow birch propagation, Disco, scarify the soil (dig it up with a dozer or skidder) and try to keep the deer away. Yellow birch tends to do best after clearcuts where the soil has been disturbed. So does cherry, because the seeds can sit dormant for years (or even decades under the right circumstances) until the canopy is opened up.

I just read today that some of the best trees for carbon sequestration are yellow poplar and beech. I get the beech part, because it grows fast and dense. Yellow poplar, on the other hand, grows fast but isn't very dense for a hardwood. Maybe the fast growth rate makes up for the difference in density.


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## cbrodsky (Jan 9, 2008)

Our area is probably severely overcrowded with very tall but thin trees so I figure I'm probably just helping some of the better ones build up a nice canopy.

In the few cleared areas we have, it seems like nature does the job with saplings coming up everywhere and I just pull out anything that shouldn't be there like stinkwood trees which pop up everywhere.

Those of you planting hundreds of trees - are you converting a former field, and I assume there is some specialized equipment to speed that?

-Colin


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## mikeathens (Jan 9, 2008)

NY Soapstone said:
			
		

> Those of you planting hundreds of trees - are you converting a former field, and I assume there is some specialized equipment to speed that?



My property has a history of grazing (dairy farm), and has several pastures that are recovering - slowly- from a hundred years of hooves compacting the soil.  Lots of redbud, dogwood, and autumn olive.  Of the 3000 trees I planted this past spring, 1700 were done with a dibble bar.  I spent 3 hard 8-hour days doing nothing but planting with plenty of blisters, sore muscles, and hallucinations.  As for the other 1300, they were planted in a pasture accesible to my tractor.  I rented a 3-point planter from the Soil and Water Conservation District, and got those done in about 5 hours.


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## Corey (Jan 9, 2008)

Kind of funny - around here, they consider the "natural state" of things to be tallgrass prairie.  When I talked with the conservation agent about cutting trees on public land around the local lake, I told him I had been taking mainly downed, dead or storm damaged trees, then looking for the old, misshapen or 'wolf' trees and that I didn't think I had cut a 'specimen' tree yet.  Just generally trying to preserve the health of the woods in general.  I ask him if there is something different he would like me to do.  He said, "Ideally, the entire woods would be clearcut down to the shoreline and returned to grassland.  I'm just trying to see if I get people cutting enough wood to continue giving permits"

So to sum it up, they don't want people planting trees and mucking up the prairie!  I like the woods much more, though!  I'm just glad they don't rewind a couple million years and consider the "natural state" of things to be a shallow inland sea!


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## Outdoorsman (Feb 13, 2008)

NY Soapstone said:
			
		

> Those of you planting hundreds of trees - are you converting a former field, and I assume there is some specialized equipment to speed that?
> 
> -Colin



Yes I'm planting into a former field.  Specialized equipment = trailer to haul tree seedlings, water, water gel & fertilizer + hand held gas post hole auger for planting holes.  Also have 540 John Deere with 42" tiller to prep planting rows & weed.  I'm going to try using some tree shelter tubes this year.  bought 100 blue X type tubes & look forward to seeing how much they help in early establishment (claims are made of improved growth rates of up to 500% depending on tree type placed in the tubes.)  By the time the planting is 12-15yrs old voluntary trees/shrubs & other under story will fill in the open row areas and will look fairly close to natural. 

Not real high tech, but allows me to plant 250+ new trees/shrubs per year.

Some of the trees/shrubs I plant will have high to good lumber value like the Oaks, Blk Cherry & Blk Walnut trees, others like the elderberry & hazel shrubs are to provide nothing more than wildlife foods & shelter.  Conifers make great locations for deer bedding & bird nesting.


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## wally (Feb 13, 2008)

very little reason to plant trees here in central new england, unless you are looking for a singular species, with no prospects of it growing "naturally".  the idea is to incorporate the appropriate silvicultural techniques at the appropriate time to encourage desired species regeneration.  i admit that the "desired species" is usually a mix of species, rather than a single species, but the treatments are generally similar for groups of species.  site index and soil characteristics also dictate which species should be target species, and precipitation inputs also matter.

wally


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 13, 2008)

We cut 10 cord last year, and planted 200 trees in the spring. Not really with an eye toward future firewood harvest though. I do some species I know will take (hard maple, red oak) some I THINK will (black locust) and some I really HOPE will (Black Walnut). The selection of hardwood saplings available from my County Soil & Water each spring is limited.

I also have transplanted oak and maple from a powerline ROW. Those have taken very well in their new homes. 

My latest venture is attempting to grow Black Walnut and Shagbark hickory from seed. They're in the fridge as we speak :coolsmile: 

Now if only all the Aspen were good for something . . .


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## Jags (Feb 13, 2008)

Yep, I plant trees.  I'm not in to the multiple 100's yet, but I have planted about 120 so far.  30 Norway pines (wind break), and the rest were various hard woods, fruit woods, and flowering trees for the critters.  Mind you, this is all in my yard, not intended for wood harvest (at least not for me).  They are all native species that I have purchased thru the county water and soil conservation program.  Kinda makes a person feel good, that what I planted will produce more oxygen then I will ever consume.


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## Nofossil (Feb 13, 2008)

I've planted and transplanted specific species to specific locations, but in the area where I harvest firewood, the problem is overcrowding and undesirable species. We have a big problem with buckthorn, and one of my goals is to eradicate it to let the native species thrive, especially hardwoods.


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## wally (Feb 13, 2008)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Now if only all the Aspen were good for something . . .


if you're a birder, it's great as a source of food for ruffed grouse in the winter.  the buds are high-valued for them (protein).  aspen is also needed for woodcock habitat, especially younger stands of it.

wally


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## jebatty (Feb 14, 2008)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Now if only all the Aspen were good for something . . .



ISeeDeadBTUs - low blow on this one. Pound for pound, wood is wood. I know the lower density of aspen means fewer pounds per load, but it produces just as much heat per pound. I burn 95% aspen in my wood stove, and ever I finish up the pine in the gasifier, aspen will be the wood of choice. It's inexpensive, easy to split, dries fast, easy to handle, cleaner than most other barky woods, regenerates rapidly, grows fast, sustainable, and reminds one of the Colorado mountain ski slopes.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 14, 2008)

Well, the aspen I have will ALWAYS produce 'smoke' in my GW. I only bring it home when the TruckChick goes with me to get wood. It's inconceivable to her to leave wood in the woods, especially when it is so light, making it easy to carry.

Tell ya what . . . I'll trade you all my Aspen for any hard maple, oak, black locust, apple you have. Even at 2 for 1 :cheese: 

I read somewhere that aspen is the most common tree in the USA. And our ski slopes here in the East have way more ice than Aspen :wow:


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## jebatty (Feb 14, 2008)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Tell ya what . . . I'll trade you all my Aspen for any hard maple, oak, black locust, apple you have. Even at 2 for 1 :cheese:



deliver all you want, and i'll load you up for the trip home . . . if I had any of those woods.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 14, 2008)

LOL, well, I a'int drivin' to MN to swap my Aspen for your Pine, Dude!!


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## jpl1nh (Feb 19, 2008)

Along the lines of Wally's thinking, I was intrigued by a picture taken around 1900 looking northward from the tower at T-Hall, the administrative building at the University of NH.  It was basically field as far as you could see.  I went to school at UNH and have lived in this area ever since.  While now a semi surbarban-rural area, if you took a picture today looking north, it would be perceived as forest as far as the eye could see.  In the northeast, trees are predominantly the natural state of the land.  No need to plant them, give them a brief opportunity and they will grow in relatively predictable succesion and ultimately a wonderfully diverse mix.  I seldom plant trees and I seldom cut them though I take advantage of trees others wish cut for whatever reason and I use what dies.  I do strongly believe we need to give them space and protect them.  Given an opportunity, trees do just fine all by themselves.


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## Eric Johnson (Feb 19, 2008)

One of the things that impressed me most about the forests of the Northeast when I moved out here from Wisconsin is the large number of stone fences running through the woods, especially in Southern New England. Now, who would build a stone fence through a forest? Nobody. Those were all farm fields at one time. Now they're thriving forests and woodlots, created in short order when people quit tending the fields.


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## RedRanger (Feb 19, 2008)

No need.   Always lots of douglas fir seedlings and cedar seedlings sprouting all over the place.  Actually, quite the opposite, more thinning, than planting.  If you have enough of an establised forest, they will gladly reseed themselves.


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## jpl1nh (Feb 19, 2008)

For all of us living in the more rural areas the notion of planting trees to replace what we cut is totally unnecessary.  The first wave of deforestation in the US was the pursuit of crop land in the great forests east of the Mississipi. As the need for that crop land decreased with the exploitation of the wide open great plains area, the eastern forests have quickly reclaimed much of their former habitat.  The second wave of clearing is for urban development, a pursuit that threatens a much more permanent displacement of the forests.  Some might argue such destructive practices as coal mining by mountain top removal comes close to a permanant forest destruction as well.  I would argue that the forest systems are one of the great forces in our favor in the mitigation of high atmospheric CO2 levels.  As such it seems to me reasonable to think of the suburban developments as a reasonable though weaker substitute for forests.  Well planted, they can accomodate tree populations approaching native mature forests.  A good example is Levittown PA, one of the first great housing developments in this country, created in the fields of Eastern PA.  At the time of it's development there was nary a tree to be found.  Sixty years later, shade trees make this once barren housing tract a pleasant and tranquil semi surburban woodland.  In this type of situation however, virtually all of the trees were planted.  In the future, if development proceeds at it's current pace, we might indeed all need to be more mindful of planting trees.


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## tnunemac (Feb 22, 2008)

I'd happily trade my lodgepole pine for your aspen.  Here in the Colorado mountains, there's dire predictions of every mature lodgepole falling prey to pine beetles within 5 years, so I'm encouraging my aspen all I can.  At least I should have plenty to burn for a while.

Back on topic, you can encourage aspen colonization just by giving them space to colonize, at least where I live.  No need to plant.  And overall it should be carbon-neutral.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 22, 2008)

Someone should tell the State of NY that trees don't need aggressive govt protection.

We just bought a few thousand more acres. We give people that have >50 acres of forestland an 80% tax break.


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## wally (Feb 26, 2008)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Someone should tell the State of NY that trees don't need aggressive govt protection.
> 
> We just bought a few thousand more acres. We give people that have >50 acres of forestland an 80% tax break.



not sure i understand your point.

however, without tax incentives, land is much more likely to be converted to non-forested (or non-open space) uses, generally some form of development.  the return on the investment is much higher by developing the property.  although trees do generate a nice return over time, and there are tax advantages to growing/harvesting timber (depletion allowance/capital gains), at present, the development values just generate far more short term dollars.

those are reasons enough to encourage non-development of timberlands, especially productive ones.  if this can be accomplished via tax incentives, i'm ok with that.  in the end, the "open space" provides a societal benefit just by its existence.

but maybe i misinterpreted your statement.


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## colsmith (Feb 27, 2008)

At my previous home I planted a dozen fruit trees, plus some redbuds, a few serviceberry, a maple (for an Earth Day), katsura (sp?) and a few others.  Sadly, most of them were cut down by the new owner, plus many of the older, taller trees.  But that property was in a transition from 'a field 20 years ago' to suburban yard, so it could use some more trees.  Some trees also grew themselves, namely several black walnuts (I had dumped a pail of old walnuts someplace) and a peach tree.  I did sell over a thousand or so trees to people at my workplace two different years, I was very active in the Environmental Club, so I guess that was my big tree planting effort. 

Although we never cut down healthy trees for firewood, just take dead wood or what others have cut for whatever reason, I do kill a lot of trees.   We live in a very naturalized area, and nature and the squirrels and birds grow way too many trees too close together, and we have to get rid of some or we wouldn't have anyplace to walk or garden or grow fruit.

I bought my mom's house over 5 years ago, so now I live where I grew up.  My family bought land that had been farmed.  My father planted 50+ fruit trees and some walnuts, spruce, and other trees.  I recently was startled by a photo from 43 years ago, there were just the spindly fruit trees here and there, otherwise it had that 'used to be a cornfield' look in most places.   Now it looks pretty much llike a forest, although there are a few more paths and open spaces than a forest would have.  Since we have many fruit trees still, we are always whacking down or mowing black walnut trees (once you have one and some squirrels, you get them everywhere) plus baby fruit trees, pulling out baby oaks, and then the weed trees like dogwood, boxelder, silver maple, poplar, etc.  If you have a large yard and don't use chemicals or mow much of it, trees grow themselves, you don't need to plant them.  But we are at max tree capacity, so we will just be killing the baby trees from here on out.  Sounds cruel, but we are just protecting the trees and plants we already have.


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## Gooserider (Mar 17, 2008)

I have planted a frrew in our yard, (~1 acre) but mostly our yard has self seeded with more trees than it can support - we have tons of saplings ~ 1" in diameter, spaced 3-4" apart, not sure what variety.  I would love to find a good source for a quick lesson on how to identify which of these young trees are actually useful and how best to kill off the excess and junk trees so as to get a decent growth of healthy trees.  We have a few big red oaks scattered around, and a lot of swamp maples, many of which have large areas of rot in them.  I've been taking down a few trees every year that are either so badly rotted as to make me nervous or that have grown in an overly "ugly" way - i.e. mostly leaned over...  I'm now at the point where I've gotten most of the ones that really "need" to come down, wouldn't mind doing something to improve the value of what's left and the next set of replacement trees.

Gooserider


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## glacialhills (Jul 12, 2008)

Outdoorsman, if you are managing for wildlife you should be leaving some of those dead trees in the woods till they fall down. Here in Michigan, Pileated Woodpecker's love/need those big dead trees for nest holes. These are the biggest woodpeckers(other than Ivory billed) in North America about crow size. Also redheaded woodpeckers, Barred and screech owls, and wood ducks use the holes made by these big woodpeckers till the tree finally falls over. I have had Pileated woodpeckers nesting on my little 10 acre woodlot for two years now in a big dead elm. In S.W. Michigan I have never needed to help mother nature with planting trees. She and the squirrel's do that very well on there own.


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## Gooserider (Jul 12, 2008)

Glacialhills said:
			
		

> Outdoorsman, if you are managing for wildlife you should be leaving some of those dead trees in the woods till they fall down. Here in Michigan, Pileated Woodpecker's love/need those big dead trees for nest holes. These are the biggest woodpeckers(other than Ivory billed) in North America about crow size. Also redheaded woodpeckers, Barred and screech owls, and wood ducks use the holes made by these big woodpeckers till the tree finally falls over. I have had Pileated woodpeckers nesting on my little 10 acre woodlot for two years now in a big dead elm. In S.W. Michigan I have never needed to help mother nature with planting trees. She and the squirrel's do that very well on there own.



What about taking down the dead trees as firewood, but putting nest boxes in the live trees?  I don't like leaving dead trees up, at least in the yard both because they look bad, and because you never know when they are going to fall down and possibly do unplanned damage - I'd rather drop them in a controlled way so that I put them where I want them, instead of leaving it to Murphy (That guy always puts the trees in the wrong place - must be a law or something....  :lol: )

I will say that I have mixed feelings about encouraging woodpeckers - they are pretty birds, but they also have been doing a serious number on our house - hopefully when we can afford to reside w/ vinyl that will solve the problem...  I do try and provide habitat in other respects, though again it's a bit of a mixed bag - the groundhogs (or something) won't stay out of my garden patch - I didn't plant the brocoli for them, but I haven't gotten any of it yet, etc.)  All I know is I'd be a lot more willing to encourage the wildlife if it would only eat / live in the stuff that isn't what I put my work and money into...

Gooserider


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## myzamboni (Jul 12, 2008)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Well, the aspen I have will ALWAYS produce 'smoke' in my GW. I only bring it home when the TruckChick goes with me to get wood. It's inconceivable to her to leave wood in the woods, especially when it is so light, making it easy to carry.
> 
> Tell ya what . . . I'll trade you all my Aspen for any hard maple, oak, black locust, apple you have. Even at 2 for 1 :cheese:
> 
> I read somewhere that aspen is the most common tree in the USA. And our ski slopes here in the East have way more ice than Aspen :wow:



Doesn't everything in a GW 'smoke :roll:   All y'all OWB guys need to learn to season your wood.


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## glacialhills (Jul 13, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your siding Gooserider. Maybe that’s why all the woodpeckers are pounding on your house cause you cut down all the snags.  LOL   I would most definitely take down any dead trees that were near the house, kids, whatever. I just leave them in the woods where they don’t make any sound when they fall.
The tree nesting box is also a wonderful draw for some species, owls and wood ducks in particular, but woodpeckers also get their grub from the dead and dieing trees (literally). Pileated woodpeckers though, make a new nest hole every year and also have holes for roosting. I don’t think they use nest boxes, could be wrong though. Even though all the dieing elms and ash are a real bummer it has been a real boon for woodpeckers and the Pileated in particular because of their very specialized nesting requirements...ie tall, large dia. dead and dieing trees.


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## RedRanger (Jul 13, 2008)

No need to replant, the damn things replant themselves.   always pulling cedar and douglas fir sedlings out of my garden planters, and everywhere else.  I like it though= nature taking it`s own course.


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## trailblaster (Jul 13, 2008)

We have tons of deer and several beavers and I still have to brush cut sapplings away from my lawn edge where our thick forest acres begin and it helps keep down the insect population near the house.  I do a lot of trail maintenance for the atv and snowmobile clubs and we are constantly clearing sapplings from the esttablished trails. We never have a problem with new growth starting. My back 40 acres is starting to feel like a rainforest after all the rainy days we've had and its always cooler,darker and more moisture than my yard.


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## Gooserider (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm also cutting back a lot of junk on a regular basis, but what I haven't figured out is how to get desirable trees to come up instead of trash...  I seem to get a lot of swamp maples, and a fair number of other trees that I think are poplar (white outer wood with a dark brown / tan heart, smells really nasty when first cut) but I don't seem to get any oaks, even though we have plenty of them in the yard already.  Either my tree identification is off, or my existing BIG red oaks aren't putting out any fertile acorns (They put out plenty otherwise!)

Or is there a better tree that I should be trying to get growing?  Far as I'm concerned the "ideal tree" would be fast growing, high btu/cord, and low maintainance - it would be nice if it provided some honeybee forage and / or edible fruits, but by no means is that as important as the fuelwood potential...

Gooserider


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## glacialhills (Jul 13, 2008)

Gooserider, If you can get some shagbark hickory saplings or some of the nuts to plant in gallon pots those are tops for firewood. One of the highest Btu's per cord of any hard wood. It splits really easy and is straight grained and dries a lot faster than oak. Also the animals love the nuts. I have to admit they are tops on my list of nuts to eat also if I can beat the squirrels to them They taste just like Pecans. I have about 10-15 huge Shag barks growing very close in my woods and thats where I plop down every squirrel season. Usually no problem to get my limit ever time in that spot. Its like Mardi Gras and thanksgiving all rolled into one for every squirrel in the area when the nuts are ripe in the fall. I think turkeys like em too.


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## savageactor7 (Jul 15, 2008)

About 5 years ago I noticed white oaks growing around here so I mark the saplings with red engineer tape.

 In the fall I transplant the smaller ones to a more desirable location. Right now I probably have about 150 taped...btw I tape 'em so I don't run over them in the winter or cut them down with the brush hog or brush whacker in the summer.

My other trees have no problem re-seading themselves like maple, ash, poplar and elm. In the past growth will return from stumps and as I'm brush whacking I thin out that stump growth to just 1 leader and it's surprising how fast that tree will grow. Since 77 I have trees that I cut twice that way. 

I enjoy hanging out in the woods and brush whacking is one of the few things I can do in the rain. In the fall I'll rig up a huge long tarp so I can drive my tractor under it. Sometimes I'll have a small fire going in a log holder so I can dry off my work shirts..which I'm always swapping out, or I skewer some hotdogs. We keep a few field folding chairs there with a transistor radio. While I maybe in the woods for 4 hrs I certainly don't work that long in them as I'm a believer of taking frequent breaks to beat down the drudergy factor. Right now I'm off to make little piles of brush I cut down earlier last month. 

The brush will either get hauled off to burn or they'll stay as habitat for small mammals but in the wagon will be a folding comfy chair, a cooler, radio, TecNu and bug spray....sorry for the ramble now I'm outie.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 15, 2008)

As I said in that other thread- I'm looking to keep some diversity with native trees, but manage the property somewhat intensively.  The NH nursery is a pretty good source of saplings.  In previous years I've got hazelnuts, native rises, native plums, and other species.


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