# NIMBYism



## JustWood (Jul 4, 2009)

How has "Not In My Back Yard" mentality affected your town,county, or state in regard to "green" projects?
The people of my county have  for a few years fought off wind power and now wind power is going  online in every county around us. Currently the local power plant is considering carbon sequestration and it is being fought. The mentality here is astounding.
Just curious what other areas are experiencing.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 4, 2009)

We have wind farms just to the north and east.  They are beautiful.  However, the affluent towns in the high wind zones seem to be pretty effective at keeping them out and they are largely just in the ag districts.  I wish I could do wind instead of PV as I am in a red zone.  At least it seasons my wood fast.  I'm hoping someone gets the vertical axis working as it would be perfect for my site and I don't think anyone could block it.


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## northwinds (Jul 4, 2009)

The next town over just passed an ordinance establishing minimum setbacks for wind
turbines of 2,640 feet from homes of people not hosting a turbine, effectively killing
the wind farm proposal.

Noise was the chief objection.


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## pybyr (Jul 4, 2009)

OMG- I don't even want to get started on specifics of this topic- I am very fond of VT, but NIMBYism is a rampant epidemic here.

If there may have been a mistaken assumption in past decades that all change represented progress, there's a total phobia of change now, and too many people seem to think that they have every right to dictate in the most minute and intrusive detail what anyone else does anywhere else.  Some change is inevitable, it's all a matter of keeping balance and perspective.

Everyone wants the benefits of infrastructure, but somehow it is supposed to be accomplished while doing nothing detectable,  or everyone wants the impacts in someone else's backyard.

And, while I am all in favor of poorly planned development that wastes land/ resources or looks like heck, the extent to which everyone has become a self-appointed mullah of aesthetic sensitivity- ready to figuratively "stone" anyone who might suggest any change that would affect any aspect of what they see- has become ridiculous.

Local retired farmer about 2 miles up the road from me wanted to start a tiny stone quarry to try to sell stone wall stone to try to help pay his taxes.  The place has been in the family for generations, and they've always let anyone recreate on the acreage.  The quarry would have been thousands of feet from any property line, and visible only by airplane.  The NIMBY backlash and regulatory fracas of red tape, largely fueled by yuppies, was on a scale that you'd think that he was proposing a toxic waste dump.

Any time I can think of where anyone has proposed to open or expand a sand pit or gravel quarry in recent years, it turns into a huge bureaucratic donnybrook of a legal pi**ing match- but last I noticed, any of those who are wound up about such proposals still want to have ready supplies of sand, gravel, concrete, pavement, etc., for their own places.  Apparently such resources come without impacts as long as they come from somewhere else, out of sight?

Examples are legion- a few years ago, a local food co-op was actually doing well enough that it needed to add space for both customers and workers- and part of the local NIMBY cadre was out there with pickets chanting against it, because it offended their Oh-So-Sensitive abstract sensibilities.

I'm not anti-government, anti-regulation, or anti-environment, but I am thoroughly tired of those who co-opt each of those in the name of inflicting their personal preferences.

I'd like to start a group- think-a-thon here where people come up with variants on the joke "how many nimbys does it take to screw in a light bulb?"


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 4, 2009)

pybyr said:
			
		

> I am very fond of VT, but NIMBYism is a rampant epidemic here.



That explains the number of semis with VT plates cruising the Thruway through central NY to use our landfill.


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## Dune (Jul 5, 2009)

The Cape Wind project has dragged on for 8 long years, with no end in sight. Not sure how much the nimbys actualy slowed it down though. Endless government reviews, town, county, state, and fed, multiple agencys from each, especialy the feds.


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## Poult (Jul 6, 2009)

They've practically killed wind power in my township.  The township to the west of here has gotten it through, and the only way it would be viable in this township would be if the turbines went in at the same time as the other township.  Since the summer people with money have decided they can't have their views affected, they put up such a front against it that enough time has gone by that the wind power companies have said "sorry, can't wait any longer, maybe another time."

It's infuriating that outsiders managed to do this.  How did they do it?  By making friends with the local town board/planning board, who just love to rub elbows with the rich boys.  Elections are going to be really interesting in the next few years at the local level here.

Poult


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## webbie (Jul 6, 2009)

Ditto on the Cape Wind.
Shame on the pols and business leaders who fought it. 

In Ma. we have a bunch of NIMBYs fighting biomass electrical generation. Now, to be sure, it is important to have checks and balances and they do have some valid points (the forest can only support a limited about of harvest), however they are fighting tooth and nail to say that biomass does not make sense in any way. 

Personally, I would like to see one plant...not a bunch, but at least one. We need a mix.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 6, 2009)

I don't see any evidence around here of anybody even thinking about wind or solar. I am not sure where it would be placed to catch any wind or sun anyway.

I was a NIMBY twenty years ago when they wanted to mow down the woods and put the new monster landfill right across the road from my house instead of expanding the old one. The consultants thought there were only a few dozen houses in the woods around the proposed site. When we forced them to get in a car and count front doors they stopped at a thousand and went back home. The old landfill got expanded and is doing fine. Wish we could extract more methane out of the thing than they have been able to so far.


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## potter (Jul 7, 2009)

NIMBY here.
So large euro energy company comes into small rural area with no state oversight, They sign contracts before approaching town government, and make sure they have folks on the board who will benefit. The board transfers all decision making power to the county developement authority. Of course all hell breaks loose with threats odf vioilence etc.. when it's dropped in our laps.
These are big corporate entities whose only concern is the bottom line- if they leave a community fractured why would they care in Germany (or Albany, for that matter.) Impacts my property value, with little affect on taxes, etc.
Would be acceptable if it benefited the whole community, or provided long term employment. 
We voted out the crooks, but there may be no way out of the contracts and agreements made. Again if it was done in some equitable way it would be different, but it has pretty much destroyed any sense of community.
This has happened repeatedly in NY state, even earning the notice of the Attorney General, but no real action taken. And if you've followed the moral and intellectual wonders in Albany- you can imagine why these things happen here.
It's always easy to sneer at NIMBYS when it's not your backyard. I'm sure many on this site live rurally and value peace and quiet of an open landscape. Truth is people in fly over country don't matter. Never did.


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## Gooserider (Jul 7, 2009)

Our town is having a large battle right now over whether or not to build a large "peaking power plant".  While there may be definite aspects of "NIMBY" involved, there also appear to be some significant issues - the site is smaller than normal for the proposed plant, and we have been getting very mixed answers at some of the different hearings about things like impacts on the towns water and sewer systems, and the operating plans for the plant...  

Another issue is air quality concerns - they tell us the plant will be natural gas fired, but they also want to build in the capacity to run on diesel "if NG isn't available" - what this means in terms of "if the price of NG goes up" is anyone's guess...

Lots of questions have been raised, and the answers have often not been consistent, and / or there have been enough questionable activities on the part of the proponents to really make the rest of us suspicious...

Gooserider


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## Cluttermagnet (Jul 7, 2009)

Not quite a 'green' project, but about 5-8 years ago, a local landowner who predates my yuppy neighborhood tried to put in a 150+ ft cellular tower, to enjoy some good rental income from the property his home is on. This neighbor lived about a quarter mile away from the subdivision. The tower would have been visible to a good number of households bordering the long edge of the neighborhood.  The neighbors erupted in a maelstrom of opposition, egged on by a household or two of lawyers. They just wore them down, and that cell tower never went up.

BTW the cell phone companies eventually got creative and started putting up tall masts inside existing high voltage electric transmission towers, near roadways for access.  A little transmitter hut, a slender pole, and a few cell antennas clustered about the top of the pole. I doubt those neighbors would have a leg to stand on so far as 'visual impact'. Must have worked out for the cell guys, because we see these installations increasingly in our area. Probably not 150+ ft tall, but they put up more of them, I suppose, to get the needed coverage.


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## potter (Jul 7, 2009)

http://www.canisteovalleynews.com/index.php/general/newsmaker/8825-Anonymous-wind-farmer.html
listen to this.


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## mbcijim (Jul 8, 2009)

We have 150MW of wind installed in our county, with more in the planning stages.  Some townships have passed rules saying they can not be within a mile of a house, effectively ending development of them in those townships.

Some places it is supported, some it isn't.  So far they have been good for our area providing a few (not lots) of jobs, rental income to the property, lots of hotel & restaurant business from the HIGHLY skilled construction workers.


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