# Cords per acre per year, and sustainable harvesting practices.



## Shawn Curry (Jul 28, 2014)

I bought my first house last year, located in Western NY on 14 acres of Beech-Maple forest.  Much of it, especially in the back, is at least 100 years old.  I have an aerial photo of the property circa 1920, and the woods was already there.  I'd estimate the average diameter of my trees at 12-14", some much larger, some smaller.

Not all of this will be used for firewood; I also dabble in woodworking, and I would like to harvest some of the nicer logs for lumber.  But I figure I'll need roughly 2 - 3 cords to heat the house each winter.

Got my woods pretty well cleaned up of anything fallen, save a few large red maple logs (which I limbed already) that should yield some really cool spalted maple lumber.  The cleanup gave me enough quick-dry stuff (maple and poplar) for this year.

I also hit the jackpot at my neighbor's house, and ended up with a year's worth of Ash and Black Locust, a couple good size logs of each for lumber, and permission to manage the 33 acres of forest adjacent to mine.

So, I figure I'm sitting pretty for 2-4 years.  But I'm starting to think about the long term plan.  I understand there is a bit of fuzzy math involved in calculating the amount of firewood I could expect to sustainably harvest per year, and I should probably low-ball that figure since I want some of it for lumber.

I'm interested in hearing about other people's estimates and strategies for sustainably harvesting.  Other than "try to clean up other people's trees first", I don't have much of a plan yet.


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## peakbagger (Jul 28, 2014)

The guidelines are definitely fuzzy. If the trees are that size you have mature forest. Generally firewood is the stuff left over when you cut a log for lumber. so its not an either or choice. With trees that size its worth bringing a forester to walk the land and come up with a management plan. They can determine which trees are the most valuable and decide which have defects that would make them good candidate for firewood. Heck if they trees are all good grade it may be worth buying firewood from someone else and keeping all the trees for lumber (rare as usually there are always many trees that need to go). You will find that it will trake quite a few years to get caught up on the recommendations for the initial cutting so it will be several years before you worry about sustainable harvesting. In the intervening years, stuff happens which will require further short terms cuts. The best way to prepare is to get educated about managing the land and let the land tell you what it wants. Northern Woodlands is a great magazine for small landowners and they post many of their issues on line so it may be worth spending some time reading through those articles and possibly buying some of their books.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 28, 2014)

Rule of thumb = 1 cord per acre per year


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## Grisu (Jul 28, 2014)

Bigg_Redd said:


> Rule of thumb = 1 cord per acre per year



The rule of thumb I am aware of says half cord per acre and year. Maybe the difference between (west-coast) softwood and (east-coast) hardwood forests?


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## TreePointer (Jul 28, 2014)

Grisu said:


> The rule of thumb I am aware of says half cord per acre and year. Maybe the difference between (west-coast) softwood and (east-coast) hardwood forests?



That's the rule I often hear for my region--two acres yield one cord per year in a mature forest.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 28, 2014)

There's a lot of variability here too - mostly owning to the variability of the soil.  It's a figure I've heard all my life but I've never managed woodlands so I wouldn't know.  

He's got 47 acres.  Assuming the OP has a full time job there is no way he can over harvest firewood on 47 acres regardless of region.


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 28, 2014)

My soil is quite sandy, so my forest is dominated by maple, instead of beech, which tend to dominate this forest type when the soil contains a lot of clay. 

I just walked my neighbor's woods, and I think I'll be sticking with mine, at least until it becomes more accessible this fall/winter. It's much less mature than mine - mostly softer stuff like poplar and red pine. Didn't see one beech or hard maple. There were a few decent stands of white ash in the low spots, just like mine, but they were mixed with elm instead of red maple. One decent stand of black locust. But there's no way to get to any of it. 

The only pine or spruce in my woods were planted: as trail markers, a wind break on the north side of the house, and a really tight stand of very old red pines in perfectly straight N/S rows.  Plus the atlas cedar I planted this year. 

I may look for some books or professional advice, but I think I have a general strategy in mind: I want to advance the maturity as much as possible. Theres still some dead/in trouble stuff to cull - ash, locust, and elm mostly. The oaks I have are pretty young, and mixed with poplar (trembling aspen?). So if burning poplar in the shoulder season works out, ill start there. There's some beech advancing into the red pines, which need thinning anyway, so I'll have a lifetime supply of pine lumber in the shop   And there's more than a few multi trunk red and silver maple that are probably useless for lumber, but I'm sure will burn just fine. 

Loving this house more and more all the time. Living the dream B)


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 28, 2014)

Here's a selfie I took standing in front of my largest tree. It's a veneer-quality trembling aspen. About 4ft diameter, perfectly plumb, completely branch free and no taper for a good 25-30 ft. No way to get to it though except by foot.


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## paul bunion (Jul 28, 2014)

Popple/aspen shows up early in a successional forest.  So your observation about that age of your neighbors land is probably correct.  Aspen is far from the best fuel wood but it is part of a healthy forest.   Read up on ruffled grouse habitat and decide for yourself if you want to encourage it.  I personally like to hear that wumph-wumph-wumph sound when walking through my woods.


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## TreePointer (Jul 28, 2014)

In PA, you can call the state forester for your region to stop by and examine your forest--free of charge!  See if NY offers this service.


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## fossil (Jul 28, 2014)

Either enroll in college and get yourself a degree in Forestry, or get a Forester over there to walk the property with you and give you some professional advice.  The latter would undoubtedly be quicker, and as TreePointer suggested, might well be free through your County Extension service or a local University.  We've got some really smart members here, but I'm not aware of a professional Forester on our rolls.  Rick


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## arbutus (Jul 28, 2014)

Call a state forester or agriculture extension agent, who will make a site visit and general recommendations for free.

They will have forester contacts who can write a forestry management plan for you ... for a fee ... but with a forest management plan, that you follow, you may be able to lower your property taxes significantly (agriculture), as well as qualify for certain income tax benefits.  Between you and your neighbor there is a significant amount of forested land, and the tax benefits may offset some of your equipment costs required to effectively carry out the management plan.  As always, please do your research and include professional advice in your planning.

General advice once the deadfall and standing dead trees are removed is to cull diseased trees and wolf trees.  After that your steps should be site and species specific, based on professional advice to achieve your desired outcome, which sounds like high quality lumber production.

Generally in Michigan a landowner with healthy mature forest can harvest a cord of firewood per acre per year forever.  Or select cut quality lumber every eight to ten years forever.  With the amount of property you can manage you will have no shortage of firewood, so at least get a site visit and see about truly managing the woodlot for lumber production, and cut your firewood from the tops.


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## arbutus (Jul 28, 2014)

You mention no way to get to certain high quality trees or stands of trees.  Is that because of terrain or because you lack the equipment (tractor) and a path?

If terrain, a commercial logger doing a select cut can and would get those trees if there was value in them, and not wreck the rest of the woods.  If equipment, a homeowner with mature forest wanting to harvest some trees for commercial use could also cut a path and do no harm whatsoever, and you may be able to depreciate some of the equipment expenses on your income tax.  This is where checking with a forester will pay off - trees per acre, distance between trees, what specific trees to cut, creating the best access without destroying the woods, etc.


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## nrford (Jul 28, 2014)

Shawn Curry said:


> Here's a selfie I took standing in front of my largest tree. It's a veneer-quality trembling aspen. About 4ft diameter, perfectly plumb, completely branch free and no taper for a good 25-30 ft. No way to get to it though except by foot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are a GIANT of a man if that tree is 48" in diameter. Looks to me like 18" in diameter= about 54" in circumference. Finding a buyer for veneer Aspen is not an easy thing do by the way, it does look like a very nice Aspen however.


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## osagebow (Jul 28, 2014)

Keep accessibility in mind. I have 11 rocky, sloped wooded acres but cannot easily get to most of it. Scrounging and nibbling the edges has gotten me through, but I am completing a second access trail for future use. You may have to do similar improvements as you get the easy stuff knocked out.


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## Applesister (Jul 29, 2014)

NYS is broken into regions with regional offices for DEC forestry agents. They may not have the funding to impliment a forest stewardship program for landowners but they used to. I set up my woodlot in a stewardship program. Its alot of fun to do your own research though, as well. County Extension offices offer Woodlot management seminars all the time. They also have a list of volunteers who belong to the Master Foresters program. That group of people may be a source of info too. There is also New York Forest Owners Association or NYFOA. I recommend the last one, it is another organization that goes by region. I also get Northern Woodlands magazine.


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## Bigg_Redd (Jul 29, 2014)

I wouldn't call any state agencies.  Assuming the worst, for 2-3 cord per year you will never over harvest on 14 acres no matter how badly you miss-manage.  90% of it is common sense, and even if you knock down the "wrong" tree, you provide sunlight for dozens of others.


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## TreePointer (Jul 29, 2014)

True, but some forestry knowledge is counter-intuitive.

As an example, many people think that if they cut a larger tree (say, in a _diameter limit_ harvest), it will remove a large tree canopy to let more light in for the smaller trees to grow.  This is not always true. 

Sometimes the smaller tree will NEVER grow to the height of the larger tree.  A 20" DBH tree that's 40 feet tall might be the same age as the 8" tree of the same species near it.  Cut both of them down and count the rings--they may in fact be the same age!  (Core sample studies have confirmed this phenomenon.)  This has to do with genetics and not available sunlight.


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks for all the great info everyone. Cornell has an agricultural extension in my county that I drive right by every morning on my way to work. It didn't really occur to me to look there for some advice.

I would like to favor quality lumber production, even if I don't see much of it in my lifetime; besides some cherry, maple, and pine. The previous owner did a marvelous job caring for this property, and I want to continue that.

Accessibility is really more of an issue on the other property. I already have some really great trails running through mine. I may post some pics soon.

That aspen is hard to get to because its kind of on an "island" in the middle of a low spot that stays pretty muddy most of the year. Certainly not impossible to get to, just difficult with the equipment I have (mostly rated in "Shawn Power"  ). It is as big as I said; I was standing a few feet in front of it in the pic. It's difficult to photograph it with the full canopy; but once the leaves are gone you can spot it from quite a distance.  No plans to cut it down though - that tree is going to outlive me.


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## Fred Wright (Jul 29, 2014)

Did some research on this topic some years back... if memory serves, one half cord per acre per year seems about right. It's a generic metric ~ there are several variables involved.

A forest sustainment plan involves planting new trees to replace the ones you've cut. A mixture of hardwoods for future use will serve.


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 29, 2014)

Yep, I've got over 40 new trees in this year - 25 from Arbor Day Foundation, and the rest transplanted from my seedling bank.  I also have a couple 'volunteer' oaks I'm keeping in the back yard, and a 'volunteer' black walnut in the front yard, thanks to the pesky woodland critters that constantly dig holes in my yard.  Guess they're good for something.  Now I expect at least 3 per year, and find me a hickory too, or I'm getting a cat


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## wenger7446 (Jul 29, 2014)

TreePointer said:


> In PA, you can call the state forester for your region to stop by and examine your forest--free of charge!  See if NY offers this service.



How do you find these state foresters?


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## TreePointer (Jul 29, 2014)

wenger7446 said:


> How do you find these state foresters?



1. Click link:  http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/yourwoods/serviceforesters/index.htm

2. Scroll down to your county.

3. Call phone number next to forester for your county.  They'll work with you to schedule a visit to your forest land.  They also can provide you with a list of trained foresters (professionals who have a degree in forestry from an accredited university) in your area if you wish to have a timber harvest.


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## wenger7446 (Jul 30, 2014)

TreePointer said:


> 1. Click link:  http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/yourwoods/serviceforesters/index.htm
> 
> 2. Scroll down to your county.
> 
> 3. Call phone number next to forester for your county.  They'll work with you to schedule a visit to your forest land.  They also can provide you with a list of trained foresters (professionals who have a degree in forestry from an accredited university) in your area if you wish to have a timber harvest.




Great! Thank you!


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 30, 2014)

I looked into my options yesterday. Cornell was more interested in regular farming; they don't really provide advice on forestry.  However, the DEC will send a forester out upon request, who will develop a management plan, free of charge, for private non-industrial landowners.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/5238.html

In regards to property tax benefits, looks like you need to have at least 50 acres to qualify.


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## BurningBrutus (Jul 30, 2014)

Shawn curry, where in WNY are you located?


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## Shawn Curry (Jul 30, 2014)

I live in Barker - small village about 15 miles NE of Lockport.  About 5 miles south of Lake Ontario.


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## BurningBrutus (Jul 30, 2014)

Shawn Curry said:


> I live in Barker - small village about 15 miles NE of Lockport.  About 5 miles south of Lake Ontario.



nice, your only about 35 min. from me


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Aug 1, 2014)

So 1/2 cord per acre per year?  I don't quite understand how that calculates out.  If I burn 4 cords per year I'd need 8 acres for one year.  Or does that mean 8 acres would be sufficient to sustain my wood burning habit?


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## Grisu (Aug 1, 2014)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:


> So 1/2 cord per acre per year?  I don't quite understand how that calculates out.  If I burn 4 cords per year I'd need 8 acres for one year.  Or does that mean 8 acres would be sufficient to sustain my wood burning habit?



The latter. With 8 acres you can harvest 4 cords each year for as long as you want. It essentially means that on one acre you will have 1/2 cord of wood growth per year. If you regularly cut more than that you will end up without trees at some point.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 1, 2014)

I don't calculate, just cut and burn. But for 20 years I burned five to six cord off of the 4.5 acres of trees on this 5.409 acre place and for the last six years three cord a year and it ain't looking any different in those woods than the day we moved in.


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## Shawn Curry (Aug 2, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I don't calculate, just cut and burn. But for 20 years I burned five to six cord off of the 4.5 acres of trees on this 5.409 acre place and for the last six years three cord a year and it ain't looking any different in those woods than the day we moved in.



Sounds like you know a thing or three about the sustainable harvesting topic. Care to share?  Do you plant new trees and what's your strategy etc?  Are you following a plan?


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## BrotherBart (Aug 2, 2014)

Nope. Just cut'em and burn'em. If the deer didn't mow down the saplings the place would be a jungle.

Between wind blowing down 90 footers and the ones that croak and die there is always sufficient wood.


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## Shawn Curry (Aug 2, 2014)

Well I guess with 14 acres of mature forest I probably have nothing to worry about .  I just spotted a bunch more fallen and broken black locust in a part of my woods I don't get to as often - it's across a town ditch and I don't have a trail over there.

Think ill still have the DEC guy stop by - just to show off a little bit


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