# Woodstove in Basement or 1st Floor



## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

I’ve read numerous posts on different options for placement of wood stoves and have learned a great deal, but I humbly ask for advice.

I have two options as far as a location for the stove or insert. I live in a 2500 sf two story home with a full basement. 
   1. Place a wood stove in the full basement
   2. Install an insert in the existing fireplace on the 1st floor. (We've never used the fireplace)

The goal is to reduce our natural gas heating bill by 80-90%.

Things to know:
  1.  Basement is partially finished.  We spend very little to no time down there.
  2.  1st floor We spend most of our time on the first floor.
  3.  2nd floor We spend very little time on the second floor accept for sleeping.
  4.  We prefer to keep our home between 66 - 69 degrees during the winter months. 

A friend of mine has his wood stove in his basement.  He states it is the best place for it because it heats the entire floor above by warming the basement ceilings (1st level’s floors) along with the heat travels up the basement staircase.  He is very happy with his set-up.

I would prefer to place the woodstove in the basement but I have a concern. 
  1.Wouldn’t much of the heat generated by the woodstove be absorbed by the uninsulated concrete slab and the uninsulated cinderblock walls? 
  2. Would this amount of heat loss warrant not putting in the basement?

As far as operating convenience is concerned, my first choice is the basement.  Any help and insight would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


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## eclecticcottage (Nov 9, 2012)

1st floor.  You're right about the walls absorbing heat.  Plus unless you put the wood in through a window, you're carrying it down a flight of stairs.  There are countless threads about this very subject and nearly universally, the popular answer is: first floor is better than basement.  Even amongst people that have basement installs-you'll see threads about better ways to get the heat up to the living area.


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## begreen (Nov 9, 2012)

The stove is an area heater. Put it in the area you want to heat. Uninsulated basement installs waste up to a third of the stove output. That equals a lot more wood burned to stay comfortable. And you deprive yourself of a beautiful fire view.


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## Prof (Nov 9, 2012)

I have a stove in my basement, and although it works OK in my situation, I'd prefer to have it on the first floor. I still only burn 4 cords and heat exclusively with wood. My house is about half the size of yours though, but poorly insulated. Since you spend little time in your basement, as I do, it can be a bit of a pain running up and down the stairs. Also, it would be easier to keep an eye on the fire if the stove is in the living space--this is important for both safety and aesthetic reasons.


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## daveswoodhauler (Nov 9, 2012)

Another vote for the wood heater on the 1st floor.
I have a similar layout as you, but a little less area....typical colonial with 780 for each the 1st and second floors, and finished area in the basement is appx 400 feet.
If your basement is only partially finished, I think a wood stove is going to cook you out of that area, and then you have the issue of trying to get the heat from the basement to 1st floor.
My small insert keeps the 1st floor around 68-70 (need to supplement with the oil boiler if temps are below 20 or so), and by the end of the day the temps upstairs in the bedrooms range from 67 to 64 or so for the one that is furthest away from the stairs.
When I renovated my basement, I pondered putting a wood burner/pellet stove down there, but with the small area needed to be heated I ruled against it. Good luck

Edit: Where about are you located, and can you describe your setup in the "finished" area of your basement? If the area in your finished basement is insulated, you might want to just put a thermometer down there that keeps track of high and low temps....Walmart should havethem for $20 or less. This way you can see what the "unheated" temps in your basement are...i.e. after I installed insulation and finished our basement, I think the lowest temp I saw was either 57-58 and this was on one of the coldest days last winter. (North Central Massachusetts)


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

> 4. We prefer to keep our home between 66 - 69 degrees during the winter months.


It sounds like you are well disciplined. If you size your new stove properly (and put it in the main living space), you'll quickly discover how nice it is to have a 72-74º house (at least in the main area) and not even worry about burning expensive therms  ​​


> 1.Wouldn’t much of the heat generated by the woodstove be absorbed by the uninsulated concrete slab and the uninsulated cinderblock walls?
> 2. Would this amount of heat loss warrant not putting in the basement?


Yes, and yes (IMO) Plus, it's not just about air temp. The radiant heat from a wood stove (which I'm very much enjoying as I type) is so pleasant, I think it would be a shame to keep the stove basically underground.


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## Backwoods Savage (Nov 9, 2012)

Welcome to the forum Malatu.

I too would vote for the first floor install.


Question:  What have you done so far for getting fuel?  Buying fuel for a wood stove is nothing like buying fuel for a furnace.


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## bluedogz (Nov 9, 2012)

+1 for the first floor.  My home is about equal size, 30 is on the 1st floor, and makes the whole house comfortable.


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> ​It sounds like you are well disciplined. If you size your new stove properly (and put it in the main living space), you'll quickly discover how nice it is to have a 72-74º house (at least in the main area) and not even worry about burning expensive therms  ​​
> Yes, and yes (IMO) Plus, it's not just about air temp. The radiant heat from a wood stove (which I'm very much enjoying as I type) is so pleasant, I think it would be a shame to keep the stove basically underground.


 
We like the lower temps for it keeps the humidity a bit higher.  I don't mind wearing flannel lined jeans and layers on top.
the room we would be putting the insert in is fairly small 12 X13.  I'm afraid I'd have to over heat that room to spread the heat around.  With that said, we do have a forced air system that could be used to distribute the heat.  I assume that actually is a benefit?


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

bluedogz said:


> +1 for the first floor. My home is about equal size, 30 is on the 1st floor, and makes the whole house comfortable.


 
What do you mean by "30"?  Are you referring to 30,000 btu rated stove?


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## eclecticcottage (Nov 9, 2012)

I imagine the "30" is the NC30 a New Englander model stove.

Our stove is in a 14x20 room but heats the rest of the house without making it too warm in that room.


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

daveswoodhauler said:


> Another vote for the wood heater on the 1st floor.
> I have a similar layout as you, but a little less area....typical colonial with 780 for each the 1st and second floors, and finished area in the basement is appx 400 feet.
> If your basement is only partially finished, I think a wood stove is going to cook you out of that area, and then you have the issue of trying to get the heat from the basement to 1st floor.
> My small insert keeps the 1st floor around 68-70 (need to supplement with the oil boiler if temps are below 20 or so), and by the end of the day the temps upstairs in the bedrooms range from 67 to 64 or so for the one that is furthest away from the stairs.
> ...


 
I'm in Delaware about 50 due east of Baltimore, MD.  I refer to my basement as being partially finished because the previous owner divided it up into three seperate rooms.  None of the partition walls are insulated.  We use the basement strictly for storage.


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

Malatu said:


> We like the lower temps for it keeps the humidity a bit higher. I don't mind wearing flannel lined jeans and layers on top.
> the room we would be putting the insert in is fairly small 12 X13. I'm afraid I'd have to over heat that room to spread the heat around. With that said, we do have a forced air system that could be used to distribute the heat. I assume that actually is a benefit?


Depending on the layout of the house, it's usually pretty difficult to distribute heat throughout the house with a central furnace blower. Many threads here on that subject. As begreen said, stoves are area heaters. In our case, the house is single level, pretty open with bedrooms directly off the main area, so they get pretty well heated. But if there are many rooms off of hallways, for example, it's a difficult situation to distribute heat.


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## Swedishchef (Nov 9, 2012)

My stove is in the basement and I spend 20% of my time in the basement. It takes 2-4 hours to heat the basement to 76 or so and then the heat starts to rise. I use the stove to heat my basement and compliment upstairs heating. If you want to heat a full 3 levels, get a furnace. If you want a stove, put it on the floor where you spend the most amount of time. It's the most efficient thing to do...trust me, I learned the hard way!

Andrew


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## bluedogz (Nov 9, 2012)

Malatu said:


> What do you mean by "30"? Are you referring to 30,000 btu rated stove?


 
Oh, no.  My Englander NC30 stove, as referenced in my sig.  I think it is rated for 75000 BTU... someone will be along to correct me shortly.


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Depending on the layout of the house, it's usually pretty difficult to distribute heat throughout the house with a central furnace blower. Many threads here on that subject. As begreen said, stoves are area heaters. In our case, the house is single level, pretty open with bedrooms directly off the main area, so they get pretty well heated. But if there are many rooms off of hallways, for example, it's a difficult situation to distribute heat.


 
So .. is it safe to say ...having a forced air system really *"is not necessarily a big bonus"* when trying to distribute the heat from a wood stove?


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Welcome to the forum Malatu.
> 
> I too would vote for the first floor install.
> 
> ...


Not a darn thing .. I'm just looking to purchase and suspect I'll wait till the end of the season to make a purchase taking advantage of promotions.  I used to burn wood 25 years ago in a small wood stove, so I'm a bit familure of the need for the wood to be well seasoned.


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

Malatu said:


> So .. is it safe to say ...having a forced air system really *"is not necessarily a big bonus"* when trying to distribute the heat from a wood stove?


Sorry to say, but that seems to be the case in most situations.  Do some searching here to read other people's experiences and ideas.  Ideas abound because it's such a universal problem, but the consensus seems to be that it does little good to do it that way (central forced air) and sometimes even counterproductive, especially when the duct work is under the house and unprotected.  One of the most recently discussed ideas is to place a portable fan on the floor at the doorway of, for example, a remote bedroom and direct the air _out _so that warm air is forced to replenish the cool air.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 9, 2012)

You will use a heck of a lot more wood trying to heat the floor above where the stove is. Whenever i try this even with a blower i cant get substantial heat to the next floor up.


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

Malatu said:


> Not a darn thing .. I'm just looking to purchase and suspect I'll wait till the end of the season to make a purchase taking advantage of promotions. I used to burn wood 25 years ago in a small wood stove, so I'm a bit familure of the need for the wood to be well seasoned.


It's certainly not too late to install a stove, but as Dennis's post suggests, it can be _really _hard to find truly well seasoned wood now.  And the importance of dry wood is even greater now with the new stoves than it was 25 years ago.  I burned wood at that time, too (Earth Stove) and you just can't get away with what you used to be able to anymore. 

You can get better deals in the off-season, but frankly, I don't think it's worth waiting for just for that reason, and you may be able to find good wood.  You'll just have to pay more for it.  Of course, if you're anything like me, you can spend the rest of the season just deciding what stove to buy


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## Malatu (Nov 9, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> It's certainly not too late to install a stove, but as Dennis's post suggests, it can be _really _hard to find truly well seasoned wood now. And the importance of dry wood is even greater now with the new stoves than it was 25 years ago. I burned wood at that time, too (Earth Stove) and you just can't get away with what you used to be able to anymore.
> 
> You can get better deals in the off-season, but frankly, I don't think it's worth waiting for just for that reason, and you may be able to find good wood. You'll just have to pay more for it. Of course, if you're anything like me, you can spend the rest of the season just deciding what stove to buy


 
I hear ya!  Part of the the enjoyment for me is the learning process. It seems the more learn about the topic at hand, the happier I am (long term) with the decision I make.  Though, I won't discount the nature of self fulfilling prophecies.  As the saying goes, Happiness is a state of mind!


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

Malatu said:


> I hear ya! *Part of the the enjoyment for me is the learning process*. It seems the more learn about the topic at hand, the happier I am (long term) with the decision I make. Though, I won't discount the nature of self fulfilling prophecies. As the saying goes, Happiness is a state of mind!


Well, you're in the right place for that.  Just ask a question here and you're likely to get more opinions than you know what to do with


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## stanleyjohn (Nov 9, 2012)

I vote for first floor if the plan is to save on your heating bill.My dad put his in the finished basement and very little of that heat makes it to the first floor.We have a small 1600 sq ft colonial and our harman wood insert heats the first floor to around 77 average while the second floor gets to low to mid 70s.


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## eclecticcottage (Nov 9, 2012)

If you can find them, you can always buy ecobricks or something similar for fuel this season.  Ecobricks can be found at most Tractor Supply stores.  They are basically like a giant pellet-a compressed brick of wood sawdust.  Very dry, very effective for creating heat.


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## Sprinter (Nov 9, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:


> If you can find them, you can always buy ecobricks or something similar for fuel this season. Ecobricks can be found at most Tractor Supply stores. They are basically like a giant pellet-a compressed brick of wood sawdust. Very dry, very effective for creating heat.


That's right, or you can actually mix them with less than stellar cordwood, although I've never done it.  They tend to be upwards of twice the cost of wood per BTU, though, so the economy of it would depend on what you use now for heat.  But it could get you going.


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## unhdsm (Nov 9, 2012)

You described my previous set up exactly.  I had a 3 cubic foot EPA stove in my half finished basement and it worked great...until I finished the upstairs (3rd) floor.  There was NO WAY to get heat up to those bedrooms in the Vermont winter.  It was freezing.  I put the Shelburne on the first (living area) floor and life is good.  Don't do it.


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## wkpoor (Nov 9, 2012)

I'll comment here because people of all sorts of situations might read this. Everything posted to this point is spot on. I too this yr intend to have a stove on the 1st floor. However my situation just might be others too. For me to put a stove on the first floor means I will have to lug wood up a flight of stairs which will be harder than going down. My main entry into the house is my walkout basement. And in winter that is where we spend our time. It was only logical for me to put a stove there. Easy to move anything in or out through a set of double french doors level with the driveway. If I wanted to I could drive a skid steer right up to the stove. I have found though that exposed block walls and all that concrete is quite the heat sink. But there is peace of mind with the heater sitting on concrete and surrounded by concrete.
Upstairs has its own set of challenges with the 18' high ceiling great room.
I too will vote for 1st floor in your situation. Just wanted to note why some people have good reason to do the basement install.


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## begreen (Nov 10, 2012)

Malatu said:


> So .. is it safe to say ...having a forced air system really *"is not necessarily a big bonus"* when trying to distribute the heat from a wood stove?


Correct. If the ductwork is uninsulated and running through a cool space the heat loss can outweigh the benefits. A well placed table fan can sometimes achieve much better results.


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## Seanm (Nov 10, 2012)

wkpoor said:


> I'll comment here because people of all sorts of situations might read this. Everything posted to this point is spot on. I too this yr intend to have a stove on the 1st floor. However my situation just might be others too. For me to put a stove on the first floor means I will have to lug wood up a flight of stairs which will be harder than going down. My main entry into the house is my walkout basement. And in winter that is where we spend our time. It was only logical for me to put a stove there. Easy to move anything in or out through a set of double french doors level with the driveway. If I wanted to I could drive a skid steer right up to the stove. I have found though that exposed block walls and all that concrete is quite the heat sink. But there is peace of mind with the heater sitting on concrete and surrounded by concrete.
> Upstairs has its own set of challenges with the 18' high ceiling great room.
> I too will vote for 1st floor in your situation. Just wanted to note why some people have good reason to do the basement install.


  I had a stove put in my basement late september this year. We thought about having an insert put in our fireplace in the living room but we figured it would be hard to get the heat downstairs. We live in a split level home where the basement (half below grade) is always cold! My daughter has her bedroom down there as well as a rec room and my wifes office. Its bothered us that our daughter has a cold bedroom and bathroom but not any more! I have an attached garage with a bit of wood in it so for me its 5 steps down to the stove. Right now its -11c out and my rec room thermometer which is 20 feet from the stove is saying 24C and my upstairs is 22.5 plus the furnace hasnt been on for days. Its interesting hearing about how concrete sucks up heat. I guess that makes sense! What about insulating your walls down there? Even if you dont put your stove in the basement you will still benefit. Having it upstairs will make it easier for you on drafting!


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## swagler85 (Nov 10, 2012)

I have my stove in the basement but it's a little different situation. It's a fully finished walk out basement on a raised ranch style house. We spend most of our time in the basement so it works out nice having the stove there. Typically it keeps the upstairs rooms farthest from the stove at 67-72. I did play around with using my forced sir to distribute heat this year. I have a return air vent directly above my stove, it helped keep the basement from getting too hot and pushed some of that air upstairs. Don't know how much of that heat I lost though, I don't think it was much since most if my ductwork is in living areas.


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## RIJEEP (Nov 10, 2012)

We decided on the first floor install after debating putting it in the basement.  2000 ft2 home.  We put the stove on the 1st floor.  In our setup, I really do not think the second floor bedrooms would get enough heat from  a  basement install.  Sure, the 1st floor would be warm, but we have small kids on the 2nd floor and I want them warm.

In addition to heat circulation being good, I really enjoy watching the stove where I spend the most time.  Keeping an eye on it operationally speaking and aesthetically.  In fact when its real cold we all focus on that steel box its great.


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## Stump_Branch (Nov 10, 2012)

I have one in the main living area and one in the basement. Mostly due to the lay out, the stove physically are on the opposite ends of the house. The basement install was the second stove. 

For me it takes longer to heat the basement up and get the heat moving up. Don't get me wrong it most certainly does. However the main living area stove does the bulk of the house and in a quicker manner.

Heart it's surely one aspect, as begreen stated though might a well enjoy the look of the fire as well. That and i would venture it's safer just due to you being around it vs just checking on it...let the basement stove go to long in between reloads and you will surely be kicking yourself.



Course you could do both. Might be your best option on getting to 80% less gas usage.


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## steve19 (Nov 12, 2012)

Based on the size of your house I think installing the stove on the first floor makes the most sense. You will achieve better heat distribution.

I have an 1100 square foot home and my stove is in the basement. My stove heats the entire house however. There is often a 10 degree difference between floors (basement sits around 80, upstairs is around 70-72). If I had the stove upstairs however, I think I would melt.


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## TuffGong (Nov 12, 2012)

1st floor for sure.  I have a walkout and put mine in the basement.  I never bring my wood inside which keeps the mess to a minimum.  The advice that stoves are area heaters are spot on.  I know lots of people heat their entire house with wood stoves but I think it is difficult, and "heat" is a relative proposition.  Wood stoves make for tremendously warm areas and tremendously cold areas, if your house is choppy that is.  It can be tough to move heat imo.


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## albertj03 (Nov 13, 2012)

Another vote for 1st floor. I have a similar setup but my house is a little smaller and I have my stove in the basement. It does a good job heating the 1st floor above it but not much heat gets to the second floor. Having the stove in the basement can be a major pain especially when you are lighting a cold stove. You'll find yourself either sitting in your basement stearing at your stove waiting for it to get going so you can turn down the air and go upstairs, or you'll be running up and down the stairs every 5 minutes to check on the stove. 

If I could I would put my stove on the first floor in a heartbeat. It would make burning wood much more convienment for me and push more heat throughout the house.


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## schlot (Nov 13, 2012)

Looks like the consensus is to place it on the first floor, but I like to offer something.

If you are trying to save on your NG bill, the first thing I would do is to look at making the house better insulated, then move on to a different heat source like wood. Granted putting an insert in will save you money, but I think you can't over look the obvious heat loss you are experiencing right now. That uninsulated basement (especially the exposed band of block) is letting the NG btu's outside instead of heating you. Not sure what you have for attic insulation but that's a huge area that can lose heat too.

I know it's not as sexy as putting in stove or fireplace, but I'm sure glad I made a big effort in insulating those two same areas before I put my stove in. We saw a big reduction in our NG bills before I even put the stove in.

Just my 2cents worth


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## firefighterjake (Nov 13, 2012)

schlot said:


> Looks like the consensus is to place it on the first floor, but I have to ask something.
> 
> If you are trying to save on your NG bill, the first thing I would do is to look at making the house better insulated, then move on to a different heat source like wood. Granted putting an insert in will save you money, but I think you can't over look the obvious heat loss you are experiencing right now. That uninsulated basement (especially the exposed band of block) is letting the NG btu's outside instead of heating you. Not sure what you have for attic insulation but that's a huge area that can lose heat too.
> 
> ...


 
+1 . . . same advice I got from the folks here . . . and it did make a big difference . . . adding the woodstove a few months later was just the icing on the proverbial cake.


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## Huntindog1 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok, here is my two cents worth, If your upstairs rooms are not all that big and open your going to have to get you a small stove or you will be sweating your self with all the heat.

Like someone said if you put it on the main floor dont get too big of one. Or if thats what you want to do get you one of those Blaze Kings you can turn the stove way down and get like a 30 hour burn time at a real low heat setting as it has a Catalytic Combustor in it to allow those low burn settings.

If you put a stove down in the basement you can get a bigger one, non-cat type with the secondary burn tubes up in the top, these are usually cheaper than cat stoves. By having the bigger stove you can get longer burn times with the secondary tube type stoves. The bigger stove is going to be hotter for down stairs but like you said you wont be down there.

When burning those cat stoves at real low settings the front glass usually gets all black so you dont have much too look at. But you dont have to burn it at its lowest setting all the time either.

The Blaze King Sirrocco at 20 hours burn time would be a good option:







Or this one at 30 hours burn time:


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## northwinds (Nov 13, 2012)

House layout, basement type, and usage are critical factors.  As noted, not every basement is equal.  We've had walk-out basements that were finished with drywall, insulated, and carpeted, along with easy access to wood right outside the sliding glass windows.  There have been no upstairs doors to our basements--only open carpeted stairways.  If we didn't have a woodstove in the basement, we would never use our lower level.  As it is, that's where we spend most our free time.  In our present house, it's also where we sleep (master suite).  Except on the very coldest of days, the wood stove heats the lower level and the hillside upper level; heat rises.  I wouldn't want our main stove on the upper level because it's nearly impossible to get the heat to travel down.

Since you don't use your basement much, there's no reason to have a wood stove down there.


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## KaptJaq (Nov 13, 2012)

Like a couple of others, I have an insert on the main floor and a stove in the basement. We do not use the basement that much, it is more of a children's play room. With two stoves neither has to be very big. The insert has a 1.5 cf firebox and is non-cat. It is more than enough to heat the main floor for our normal winter days, highs in the 40s and lows around 30. It does not bake us out of the room when it is going strong. It does get overnight burns of about 8 hours if I am not pushing it too hard.

We do get cold stretches with highs below freezing. The insert cannot keep up the that level of cold. That is when I light the downstairs stove. Once it heats up the lower level a lot of heat goes up the stairs and radiates through the floors. I also have a powered duct at the far end of the lower level to force some circulation. If it is going to be a short cold spell I burn wood in both stoves. For extended cold spells I burn coal downstairs. Nothing beats tending a stove once or twice a day and coal gives a long even burn.

My answer is that two small stoves are right in some situations...

KaptJaq


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