# Any input re: a Camry V6?  What'd I break?



## bluedogz (Jan 13, 2013)

This weekend, I swapped out the spark plugs on my 2007 Camry V6 XLE 3.5l/2GRFE. Obviously, the ones on the rear cylinder bank were the hardest. 

Anyway, while stretching in to reach the rear center plug, my knuckles hit the wires attached to the *sensor* right next to that plug, screwed directly into the valve cover. The wires ripped right out of the *sensor*, leaving the *sensor* still attached to the valve cover and the wires disconnected. Not knowing what else to do, I soldiered on and put everything back together.

Also, there appears to be a similar *sensor* on the front cylinder bank, next to the center spark plug. I found it on AllData... it's the VVT *sensor*, or at least the connector to it. That doesn't tell me much, though...

So, anyway, now I'm getting a Check Engine light and a "Check VSC" warning on the dash.

I don't have the ability to check what code is being thrown, nor do I have the money to have a dealer tell me.

I guess the question is:
- Any suggestions how to replace/reconnect it without buying a whole harness or part thereof?

Thank in advance, folks.


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## gmule (Jan 13, 2013)

From the sounds of it you broke one of the knock sensors. 
Most parts stores can check codes for you for free if you ask them to.


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## Gary_602z (Jan 13, 2013)

Is the VVT sensor for the variable valve timing?
Try Toyota Nation they seem like a good bunch of guys over there.
AutoZone should be able to read the codes for free.

Gary


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## heat seeker (Jan 13, 2013)

I do believe it's the sensor for the Variable Valve Timing, so the computer knows where the cam is in relation to the crank.


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## nate379 (Jan 14, 2013)

Without seeing photos I can't really tell what it needs.  Might just be able to push the terminals back in to the plug, or might need to put new terminals.  They should be available at the Toyota house for fairly cheap.
A decent parts counter guy should be able to set you up with what you will need. 

There are some special tools used to crimp and install but I have been able to make it work with regular crimpers and some small screwdrivers.


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## bluedogz (Jan 14, 2013)

Today I met the most honest mechanic/technician I've ever seen...

Car left me roadside on the way to work, so got towed to his shop.  I assumed the cause was the broken connection to the VVT, and told him so; I asked him to be gentle with the bill for my honesty (since I've turned a wrench or two in my life, I understand the headache of undoing customers' mistakes.)

So he pushes it into the bay, and not 10 minutes later is waving me into the shop.  Chuckling, he points to the hose clamp connecting the airbox to the throttle body (WHICH I HAD FORGOTTEN TO TIGHTEN) and says, "Car's tryin' to keep you from suckin' in a bug", and reconnects it and tightens the phillips-head screw, and charges me the standard $75 diag charge.

Had he come up with some reboot-the-flux-capacitor mumbo-jumbo, he probably coulda got me for a couple hundred.  But he didn't.


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## Hogwildz (Jan 14, 2013)

Two thumbs up, congrats! The world is is not the complete cesspool I think it is......yet.


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## nate379 (Jan 14, 2013)

He fixed the VVT solenoid harness as well?

Sounds like those plugs are a real pain to replace!


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## TMonter (Jan 14, 2013)

nate379 said:


> He fixed the VVT solenoid harness as well?
> 
> Sounds like those plugs are a real pain to replace!


 
The V6 Camry is similar to our Honda Odyssey and they are a pain to get to. None of the transverse mounted V6 engines in modern cars are easy to work on.


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## heat seeker (Jan 14, 2013)

Try a Ford Flex. You have to remove the upper intake manifold to get at the rear plugs. Totally dumbass design!


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## MasterMech (Jan 15, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> Try a Ford Flex. You have to remove the upper intake manifold to get at the rear plugs. Totally dumbass design!


 Same for the Hyundai Santa Fe.  Wasn't a nightmare, but for sparkplugs? Really?


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## MasterMech (Jan 15, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Had he come up with some reboot-the-flux-capacitor mumbo-jumbo, he probably coulda got me for a couple hundred. But he didn't.​


 


bluedogz said:


> Today I met the most honest mechanic/technician I've ever seen...​


 
Not only was he the most honest, but probably up there on the smart scale too.  I  bet I know where you're headed if you need service work done on the car.......


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## blades (Jan 15, 2013)

Heck I have to remove the cab to work on the eng. on one of mine


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## Corey (Jan 15, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> ... he points to the hose clamp connecting the airbox to the throttle body (WHICH I HAD FORGOTTEN TO TIGHTEN) and says, "Car's tryin' to keep you from suckin' in a bug", and reconnects it and* tightens the phillips-head screw, and charges me the standard $75* diag charge.
> ...


 
I hope he solved the issue one way or the other, but If THAT was the real root cause, I think I would be stranded on the side of the road 50x over (but I haven't been!)  Most any modern car can easily go into a 'limp mode' with one, two or more sensors failed or disconnected.  True, the loose clamp would goof up readings from the mass airflow sensor as you'd have extra air coming into the engine, but the computer should compensate based on the O2 sensor and other readings... unless other sensors are dead or dying.

Anyway, good luck.. being stranded is always a pain!


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## jharkin (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm surprised the loose hose clamp would cause such an issue. Usually the hose is a fairly snug slip on fit, and the clamp is just there to make sure it doesn't fall off. For the car to stop altogether I would think that the hose had to have come off entirely so that the MAF or MAP sensor (whichever you have) detected no airflow to the engine and caused a fault.


BTW, did you get the VVT sensor fixed? As others noted VVT is Toyota's variable valve timing system and a fault in that system would throw a CEL and force the ECU to go into a failsafe fixed timing program, aka a limp home mode as mentioned.


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## MasterMech (Jan 15, 2013)

Corey said:


> True, the loose clamp would goof up readings from the mass airflow sensor as you'd have extra air coming into the engine, but the computer should compensate based on the O2 sensor and other readings... unless other sensors are dead or dying.


 
I've never had an engine run with the intake disconnected downstream of the MAF sensor.  It'll start, falter, and stall. Every time.  Significant air leaks up stream of that sensor will cause the engine to do funny things at times that will not make sense.


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## Highbeam (Jan 15, 2013)

+1, the engine must know the amount of air entering the engine in order to calculate the does of fuel and run. The o2 sensors are for fine tuning that dose. I used to like dumping seafoam into a running engine for a top end cleanup and discovered really quickly that when that main intake hose is disconnected, the engine will shut off quick. I then used the brake booster vacuum line.


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## bluedogz (Jan 15, 2013)

To be clear, the loose clamp in question was between the airbox and the throttle body... 
So, yeah- start, falter, die... over and over.

Still throwing the fault from the disconnected VVT sensor but I think I know where I'm going with that.


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## bluedogz (Jan 15, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Not only was he the most honest, but probably up there on the smart scale too. I bet I know where you're headed if you need service work done on the car.......


 
Very correct.  As I said, had he banged me for a couple hundred I'd never have known, and he chose the better path.  He's getting the 90k overhaul on my wife's truck in a couple weeks.


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## TMonter (Jan 15, 2013)

90k Overhaul? Why would you need an overhaul at 90k?


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## bluedogz (Jan 15, 2013)

TMonter said:


> 90k Overhaul? Why would you need an overhaul at 90k?


 
Timing belt and all associated accessories that were SUPPOSED to be done at 60k but weren't.


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## TMonter (Jan 15, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Timing belt and all associated accessories that were SUPPOSED to be done at 60k but weren't.


 
Ahh okay, not really an "overhaul" per se but the scheduled maintenance. That I understand. Is you wife's truck an interference design engine?


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## bluedogz (Jan 15, 2013)

TMonter said:


> Is you wife's truck an interference design engine?


 
Yes.  That's why the timing belt scares the willies out of me.


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## TMonter (Jan 15, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Yes. That's why the timing belt scares the willies out of me.


 
And with good cause. Best to change it asap. A few thousand over the service interval should be fine but 30k is kind of pushing it in the luck department.


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## Bret Chase (Jan 15, 2013)

Toyota can't build a v6 to save their life... for whatever reason... they've got 4cyls down.... and the V8's aren't awful (though what moron puts the starter under the intake manifold)


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## MasterMech (Jan 16, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> (though what moron puts the starter under the intake manifold)​


 
Toyota ain't the only morons to try it.

GM. 1st gen Cadillac NorthStar V8's


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## TMonter (Jan 16, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> Toyota can't build a v6 to save their life... for whatever reason... they've got 4cyls down.... and the V8's aren't awful (though what moron puts the starter under the intake manifold)


 
I wouldn't say it's all the V6's. Some of the ones a couple generations ago has some sludge problems from the oil passages being too small but I know several people with V6 trucks and Camry's here in the PNW that have 200k+ on their V6's that would disagree with that assessment. A lot of it has to do with how the vehicle is treated and maintained.

I agree that putting the starter under the intake runners is a bonehead move however.

Their 1.6, 1.8 and 2.4 liter 4 cylinders are rock solid long lived engines although the 1.6 has some exhaust manifold issues and some oil consumption issues past 160k miles.


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## bluedogz (Jan 16, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> Toyota can't build a v6 to save their life... for whatever reason... they've got 4cyls down.... and the V8's aren't awful (though what moron puts the starter under the intake manifold)


 
I just rolled over 230k miles, and my only roadside moments have been due to a flat tire and to leaving the aforementioned hose clamp loose- operator error there.


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## Bret Chase (Jan 16, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Toyota ain't the only morons to try it.
> 
> GM. 1st gen Cadillac NorthStar V8's


 those weren't exactly some of GM's best work either....


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## TMonter (Jan 17, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> those weren't exactly some of GM's best work either....


 
The Northstar V8 was a very good engine actually, just had a poorly located starter.


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## MasterMech (Jan 17, 2013)

TMonter said:


> The Northstar V8 was a very good engine actually, just had a poorly located starter.


And an appetite for oil.

For some, an engine is a POS if it doesn't go 400,000 miles without a single failure (including sensors and accessories), burn zero oil, and get 40 MPG.


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## TMonter (Jan 17, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> And an appetite for oil.
> 
> For some, an engine is a POS if it doesn't go 400,000 miles without a single failure (including sensors and accessories), burn zero oil, and get 40 MPG.


 
I don't know of any gas engine that does that. The longest lived engine I've ever owned was on a 240 series volvo with solenoid fuel injection and at 543,000 miles it was using about a quart every 1000 miles.


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## MasterMech (Jan 17, 2013)

TMonter said:


> I don't know of any gas engine that does that.


 
That's the point.  Some people are just never happy.  They have a minor issue with a vehicle and then start putting it down and bashing the whole brand.  Then they buy another brand and repeat the process as often as their checkbook/credit will allow.

I own a vehicle with a so-called "problem engine".  My 2005 GMC Canyon with the 3.5L inline five cyl has over 112K on it, and I have a heavy right foot, the truck is usually loaded to capacity unless I'm driving to/from work, and I've done nothing to that engine other then clean the throttle body every 50k, re-weld an exhaust heatshield (at 50k) and change the sprak plugs (at 110K ).  Ok OK _OK, _I changed the oil (never more than every 5K, currently out to 10K intervals after switching oils.Steady diet of high-quality synthetics.) and flushed the cooling system last week.  This engine is known for cylinder sleeve issues, intake valve seat wear issues, and just plain being problematic.  But I think my truck is case in point, maitenance matters. Here's hoping it holds together another 2 years.

My co-worker owns a Chevy Colorado with the 2.8L four cyl, a close cousin to my 3.5L.  (Modular engine design)  He received the letter from GM about the intake valve seat issue and declared he either wanted a new engine (nothing wrong with his......) or he would never buy another Chevrolet.


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## basod (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes Northstars drink oil, the fix WOT's in 2nd to 75. Eventually this will cause the engine mounts to fail
The starter isn't a hard fix on one, I've had the intake off mine twice once for the intake boot crack and second for the mouse who chewed through the knock sensor wire.
Now when it comes time for new head gaskets and dropping the engine and timeserting the STS may retire.

FYI anyone that gets lean bank codes check for downstream MAF leak before O2 sensors.


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## jharkin (Jan 18, 2013)

My wifes old corolla got that bank lean code a lot. Before she met me mechanics tried to sell her all kinds of fixes. The issue is the MAF would get crudded up, I'd clean the wire with electronic cleaning spray once a year all set.

its funny what is a big issue to some. I had an 87 dodge charge with the iron block slant 4.  Bought the car for 200 bucks, 250k and still going. We once had a Honda civic though that needed a valve job at 90k and blew the head at 180. But still I trust Hondas more and have had many many since.

Case in point I know many don't trust Honda automatics since the rash of failures 10 years ago. But they have been redesigned since and I have no worry about the unit in our 08 pilot. Just changed out the Honda atf for redline synthetic and forget about it.


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## TMonter (Jan 18, 2013)

jharkin said:


> My wifes old corolla got that bank lean code a lot. Before she met me mechanics tried to sell her all kinds of fixes. The issue is the MAF would get crudded up, I'd clean the wire with electronic cleaning spray once a year all set.
> 
> its funny what is a big issue to some. I had an 87 dodge charge with the iron block slant 4. Bought the car for 200 bucks, 250k and still going. We once had a Honda civic though that needed a valve job at 90k and blew the head at 180. But still I trust Hondas more and have had many many since.
> 
> Case in point I know many don't trust Honda automatics since the rash of failures 10 years ago. But they have been redesigned since and I have no worry about the unit in our 08 pilot. Just changed out the Honda atf for redline synthetic and forget about it.


 
The Automatic transmission issues on Hondas was primarily on the 99' to 02' models but does extend a bit into the 03' and 04' models. The key to getting long life out of those particular transmissions is frequently changing the fluid and moving away from the Honda ATF to a high quality Synthetic. Installing a filter on the 02' and earlier transmissions can also help. A couple transmission re-builders have also come up with a couple minor modifications internally on a rebuild that seems to lengthen the life of that particular transmission by a big margin.

I have a few pictures from the rebuild on our van somewhere showing the fiber material completely worn of the second clutch pack for a 2001 Honda Odyssey.

What it boils down to is Honda didn't upgrade the transmission before stuffing it in the V6 accord and Odyssey and the power from the engine was more than the transmission could handle. The heat from this would cause softening of the clutch pack when the fluid degraded and cause premature failures.

What year was your Wife's Corolla that had the MAF sensor issue?


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## jharkin (Jan 18, 2013)

Her Corolla was an 01. 

I know that Honda themselves replaced the z1 fluid with a new synthetic formulation called dw1. But I'll still trust redline better. Redline MTL cured the sticky 2-3 synchro in my acura.


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## TMonter (Jan 18, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Her Corolla was an 01.
> 
> I know that Honda themselves replaced the z1 fluid with a new synthetic formulation called dw1. But I'll still trust redline better. Redline MTL cured the sticky 2-3 synchro in my acura.


 
Sort of odd that the 01 had that problem but the 1995 era did not. I've been using the Amsoil full synthetic ATF in our Honda with good results.


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## jharkin (Jan 18, 2013)

Did the 95 have a maf or a map sensor? I don't know Toyotas that well...


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## TMonter (Jan 18, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Did the 95 have a maf or a map sensor? I don't know Toyotas that well...


 
I've since sold the car and bought another one so I couldn't tell you but I think it had a MAF sensor and I never had any issues. Mine did have the 1.6L instead of the more common 1.8L engine.


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## Bret Chase (Jan 18, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> And an appetite for oil.
> 
> For some, an engine is a POS if it doesn't go 400,000 miles without a single failure (including sensors and accessories), burn zero oil, and get 40 MPG.


 
I put 450,000+ miles on a 1988 Chevy extended cab long bed C1500 with a lowly 305 in it.....  the last engine work was done at 70k.... it was "put to pasture" after it wore out it's second rear-end...  The next 88 chevy I had was a K2500... and I went through 3 transmissions in 5k miles...

All I said is the first gen Norstar wasn't GM's best work... I never said it was an awful engine... but for a "high feature V8" it can't keep up with a pushrod LS motor...


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## bluedogz (Jan 19, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> To be clear, the loose clamp in question was between the airbox and the throttle body...
> So, yeah- start, falter, die... over and over.
> 
> Still throwing the fault from the disconnected VVT sensor but I think I know where I'm going with that.


Had to hunt around but I found the right parts guy...

2 dealers, no dice... both said my only option was a new engine harness at $1699.  Riiiiiight.

Advance Auto Parts: I pulled in asking for pins and/or heat-shrink tubing so I could try to cobble it back together.  Counter guys says, "Yeah, a VVT sensor plug?  I have it with pigtails on it... and heat-shrink is in aisle 3."  $59.99 later, and I am good to go.


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## heat seeker (Jan 19, 2013)

bluedogz said:


> Had to hunt around but I found the right parts guy...


 
Gotta love it when a plan comes together! A good parts guy is worth his weight in gold!


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## bluedogz (Jan 19, 2013)

heat seeker said:


> Gotta love it when a plan comes together! A good parts guy is worth his weight in gold!


 
I flashed back to my days working a parts counter over 20 years ago... maybe it's a matter of mindset, but I always hated the "microfiche doesn't show it- I can't order it" attitude.  To my mind, a good parts guy focuses on getting the vehicle back on the road, and knows his **** to get there.


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## aussiedog3 (Jan 21, 2013)

Bret Chase said:


> Toyota can't build a v6 to save their life... for whatever reason... they've got 4cyls down.... and the V8's aren't awful (though what moron puts the starter under the intake manifold)


I beg to differ with you.  Get yourself a 1993-94 era V-6.  Wife has one and it's the best engine/vehicle combo I've ever owned, so far nothing but routine maintenance, just over 180,000 miles this past weekend.  Kind of like the GM 3100 V-6 engines from the same era, I've seen many of them go well over 300,000 miles, and still going strong.


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