# Harbor Freight



## pistonslap (May 12, 2007)

I've been looking online at the harbor freight catalog. I'd like to get a log hauling cart and possibly an electric splitter for my basement. The prices are really cheap. Are the products of decent quality or is it a case of you get what you pay for?


----------



## restorer (May 12, 2007)

Hmmmmm, look at Northern Tools, on line. I can not recommend anything personally from Harbor Freights, NT at least stands behind their tools and such. Realize, much of what is sold is imported, so "You get what you pay for". NT has many American made lines and very good quality products, but they have their bottom feeder lines also. HF serves the bottom.


----------



## bruce (May 12, 2007)

stay away from the freight!!


----------



## BrotherBart (May 12, 2007)

Just got back from HF and picking up a tire changing rig. To go with my three winches, two engines, three storage sheds, pallet jack, power lift gate on the Suburban, tons of air tools, moisture meter and heaven only knows how much other stuff around here.

The manager at HF meets me at the door with a basket when I walk in.

If I made a living with the stuff it would be higher end brands but for what I need it for their stuff is great. And a lot of it is the same stuff that is at Northern Tool for more money and a shipping charge. If I didn't have a hydraulic splitter one of the HF jobbies would be under the shed.

Edit: I just remembered the cement mixer.


----------



## drizler (May 13, 2007)

I can't speak for the quality of HF splitters but as for their tools overall you get both good and bad.   I have bought a few dogs over the years but for thier name brand stuff its just fine as is a lot of their Oriental stuff as well.   When it comes to expensive electircal devices I shy away from their Oriental stuff  as I do for things requiring specialized hardness or extreme precision.  Chinese rubber be it tires or hoses is lacking UV protection and will crack every time in my experience.   Still if you can find a HF store and go take a look at it you might find they are well built.  The Chinese build castings about as good as anyone these days and anything else that can be easily changed out or repaired might be .  worth it as well.    Expect stuff like Hydraulic lines that crack from sun exposure and the like as well as switches that wear out and electric motors that even the Wizzard Of Oz would have a hard time justifying the power rating on.   Figure Chinese electric motors at about half the power they say they are.   You might expect the same from a splitter of theirs.  Northen tools sells mostly the same stuff as HF so dont' think their stuff is better either, its all oriental.   Another thing is how cheap can you get it and maby replace with a good motor and or hoses if and as needed?
   Long story short.   HF way cheaper often free shipping which is a big savings and no tax often either.     On the other hand you are taking your chances with something that will be expensive to ship back.    For me personally, I would stay away till I got to see one or hear from someone who has one for a while.     Clear now?    Just like mud right........................................


----------



## restorer (May 13, 2007)

Driz said:
			
		

> The Chinese build castings about as good as anyone these days and anything else that can be easily changed out or repaired might be .  worth it as well.    Expect stuff like Hydraulic lines that crack from sun exposure and the like as well as switches that wear out and electric motors that even the Wizzard Of Oz would have a hard time justifying the power rating on.   Figure Chinese electric motors at about half the power they say they are.   You might expect the same from a splitter of theirs.  Northen tools sells mostly the same stuff as HF so dont' think their stuff is better either, its all oriental.   Another thing is how cheap can you get it and maby replace with a good motor and or hoses if and as needed?
> Long story short.   HF way cheaper often free shipping which is a big savings and no tax often either.     On the other hand you are taking your chances with something that will be expensive to ship back.    For me personally, I would stay away till I got to see one or hear from someone who has one for a while.     Clear now?    Just like mud right........................................



I think this is a sad commentary on what we are willing to accept.  I use a lot of cast iron and precision machinery. I won't buy a new saw, lathe or drill press today. To get the quality of a USA made machine from twenty years ago, you'd have to buy European at 5-6 times the cost of even USA labelled machines. A friend of mine helped one of his old buddies set up a Central Machinery (Harbor Freight) milling machine. He's a master machinist. They had about 100 hours into it, but Jon said they wouldn't be able to do precise machining, it's not solid enough. They replace the motor and several bearings and bushings to get an average machine that will only do small work. Looks good though. I restore woodworking machines for resale (4-5 per year) I'm working on a sixty year old table saw right now. I have already had offers at 80% of new retail for the current model version. I was offerred full retail for a new motor for the 50's version I/R motor. 

A carpenter friend swears by HF. He claims he buys one tool at a time, and with the warranty replaces it four or five times a year when it breaks down. I've had my PC driver/drill for three years and it runs strong, he's had at least a dozen and all have failed in two months. That's not quality in my book.

I'm not saying made in USA is the only way to go. I have Metabo, Elu, Fein, Bosch and other tools, but I plan to have them for years not months.

Northern Tool sells many of the same tools as HF. They have a standard they impose on the manufacturer the same as Delta, PowerMatic, PC and others do. But they also sell lines of equipment that are made in America and have proven reliable for years. They sell a lot of equipment that they can supply parts for, or you can get locally. Both have a bottom feeder line, but unlike HF, they have a better and best line in many areas. If you are in an area where their stores are it's worth taking a look. We have an HF here. I do buy somethings from them, such as disposable brushes, wire brushes, plastic tarps. I look at their equipment and am not even tempted. For awhile they carried Marathon motors and I was temped to buy one until a local machine dealer said they were Taiwan made and had a thirty day warranty, just the Marathon name. 

All that said, if you check with members who depend on their equipment for a living I think you will find they don't spend a lot of time at the discounters. They may buy from Lumber/Hardware, Farm/Ranch, or other regional or national chains. Some will even buy from the Big Box stores, but remember even Lowes and HD are second tier tool sellers. 

Sorry about the rant, but I have thrown my share of defective and broken tools across the shop and cursed the day I bought them. Looking good and working good are not necessarily synonymous.


----------



## drizler (May 13, 2007)

They do make some very worthwile stuff though you just have to have a tolerance for what you may get stuck with.    If I was running a business I would use mostly all (anything but oriental) but thats not the case for most of us.  We don't get the tax write off or secret handshake discount either for that matter.  Some things take a beating no matter what and a Makita is going to last as long as a cheapie when it falls off the roof a couple times.    Thats life, thats work and its all about what you can afford  and afford to lose.   My favorite stuff to beat up on is Snap on.   So far overpriced you would think the Air Force was buying all of it.   Lots of their stuff is knock off too and you can buy the same tool from the original MFG for about 1/2 price.   Thats the other side of quality.  With some mechanic types its mine is bigger than yours is just like college professors argue for the better faster computer, seems a little childish to me.    People will go out of their way to steal the nice stuff too.   They will shoot your doberman to get that Snap on chest.   
   Like I said the simple stuff is fine.  I do a fair bit of welding and own 1 Makita and 4 Chinese grinders.  They all work about the same now that I gave the Makita a safetyectomy so the trigger works decently.   I have left a couple cheap Chinese grinders out in the snow all winter buried and they work now as they did before.   As for welders I wouldn't touch one from over there.  They aren't quite as powerful but I can live with that as you aren't supposed to push that hard anyways.  Their impact sockets seem to hold up as well as ours too but their wrenches are decent but not grand especially the bigger ones.    I never saw any evidence of better or worse grades of HF stuff.   What I have seen is that stuff sold by the traveling tool outfit,  ( name evades me now but they stole the name of some former famous tool co.)  Those guys out of Texas, you probably have seen em.   THeir stuff seems to be a great deal returns and rejects with who knows what missing or out of line.  Buy from them and take it home and set it up immediately so you can take it back if needed.   Too bad no one makes decent comsumer priced tools today but for the most part its hit or miss all over the place and if you want nice stuff you gonna bleed for it,  then lose it in the mud under the tractor just like a HF wrench.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 14, 2007)

I replaced my splitter and compressor motors with the HF Lifan knock-offs of the Honda GX-200 and the little suckers are great. $129 vs. $400 for the Honda and they are so exact that the internal parts are interchangable. Makes ya wonder since Honda has had plants in China since 1982.

And Japan has bombed us once. China hasn't. Well, yet anyway.


----------



## velvetfoot (May 14, 2007)

I have a rolling tool chest, folding utility trailer, 30 ton splitter, electric splitter, trailer dolly, and other smaller stuff I can't think of.
None of the above items are bad.
I think the electric splitter is quite competitive with other small electrics.
I have split about 2 cords of hemlock with it, and it worked pretty good.  You have to have reasonable expectations though concerning these little splitters.  I split a good chunk of that wood inside the garage when it was dark outside.  What I like about the HF design is that it has a tubular frame that allows it to be put on a mover's dolly to wheel it around to a more distant splitting site.


----------



## DavidV (May 16, 2007)

Pick and chose.  I've had to return a few things but overall I'm pretty happy with my purchases from them.  But again you have to pick and chose.


----------



## Jay H (May 16, 2007)

How would you describe their "Central Forge" or "Pittsburgh" socket sets... been looking at getting a set of metric 1/2" drive sockets... 
Nothing too earthshattering applications, basic car stuff and I guess now splitter and machinery uses.  I have a bunch of 3/8" drive sockets but with a shortish drive wrench, I have a DIY breakerbar for it but my longer drive wrench is 1/2" drive so some real 1/2" sockets would be nice....

Jay


----------



## MrGriz (May 16, 2007)

I don't have any experience with those brands, but I would put a plug in for Craftsman.  I think Craftsman makes good quality tools for the homeowner / weekend warrior.  They are generally fairly priced and have a lifetime guarantee.


----------



## BrotherBart (May 16, 2007)

MrGriz said:
			
		

> I don't have any experience with those brands, but I would put a plug in for Craftsman.  I think Craftsman makes good quality tools for the homeowner / weekend warrior.  They are generally fairly priced and have a lifetime guarantee.



Harbor's hand tools carry a lifetime guarantee also. And HF ain't near as broke as Sears/K-Mart is these days.


----------



## Gooserider (May 16, 2007)

I would say the HF stuff is mostly OK, but not great.  I would stay away from most of their "Chicago Electric" stuff, it seems real cheesy - I had an angle grinder that I got from them that melted the brush-holders in less than two hours of intermittent use.  OTOH, their “Central Forge” or “Pittsburgh” hand tools seem to be pretty good overall.  I've been very happy with the brand name mfgr recondition tools I've gotten from them.  I have one of those bicycle tire log haulers, and it works really well except that the tires are a bit weepy - I have to air them up every few weeks...  They've also been reasonably good on warrantee stuff, including many times picking up the tab on the return freight.  Essentially I'd say you get what you pay for, and probably wouldn't get their stuff to earn a living with, or for anything "mission critical" - but for occasional home use the price is right.

I would consider Northern to be an HF clone - same basic stuff, slightly higher prices

Sears Crapsman used to be great stuff for the home wrench, but IMHO they've gone WAY downhill in recent years, and they now do everything they can to weasel on their guarantee, when it used to be no questions asked.  These days I wouldn't pay more to get Crapsman than I'd pay for HF on most items.

Gooserider


----------



## EatenByLimestone (May 16, 2007)

Hit or miss on quality.

Yesterday I picked up a pry bar and some organizing trays for nuts and bolts, etc.  Neither one is a precision instrument so I felt pretty safe.

Matt


----------



## Gooserider (May 16, 2007)

EatenByLimestone said:
			
		

> Hit or miss on quality.
> 
> Yesterday I picked up a pry bar and some organizing trays for nuts and bolts, etc.  Neither one is a precision instrument so I felt pretty safe.
> 
> Matt


 The organizing trays are probably OK  :coolsmile:  OTOH, I've had pry bars from HF bend or break on me, (granted, under VERY heavy load conditions...) so don't over load them.  Seems especially likely in the case of the cast / forged type bars - I've got a couple rolling head prys that have chunks missing out of their tips...  The failures were in cases where I had a lot of pressure on the tool so I may just have been overloading, but I thought it should have handled it.  I also once had a drift pin snap on me when I dropped it off my work bench onto the concrete floor  :shock:  Seems they sometimes have trouble with getting the metal hardening right.  OTOH this was a set of pins that cost less than one Craftsman drift would have...

Gooserider


----------



## DavidV (May 17, 2007)

Their socket sets are cheap enough that I wouldnt mind trying them out.  if I lost them.  who cares.  I have 2 nice socket sets from high dollar places and I'm always misplacing one or two of them.


----------



## saichele (May 17, 2007)

Jay H said:
			
		

> How would you describe their "Central Forge" or "Pittsburgh" socket sets... been looking at getting a set of metric 1/2" drive sockets...
> Nothing too earthshattering applications, basic car stuff and I guess now splitter and machinery uses.  I have a bunch of 3/8" drive sockets but with a shortish drive wrench, I have a DIY breakerbar for it but my longer drive wrench is 1/2" drive so some real 1/2" sockets would be nice....
> 
> Jay



I don't have the most organized shop, but I've found the HF hand tools (wrenchs, sockets, etc) to be fine.  And frankly (going back to the organization thing) I find it's frequently more useful to have 2 or 3 of a wrench or socket (esp 1/2", 9/16", and 5/8) than to have a 'good' one for 2 or 3x the money.  Haven't broken one yet, and I do engine rebuilds and damn near all my own auto repair, along with tractor and bobcat.  For that matter, I've been beating on a $14 Chicago Electric angle grinder for 10 yrs and it's running great.  Also got a decent (not stellar) morticing machine last year.  Not sure it would take on a lot of work in oak, but I work mostly with pine and poplar, some cherry, and it does fine.  Probably wouldn't have bought the Delta or PC for 2.5 x as much.

As was said, if I were in the business, I'd probably buy the better quality stuff, because if you break a tool you're down for hours, and that costs.  My time is essentially free on most of the projects I do, so I'm willing to tolerate a trip to the hardware or HF if necessary.  And as I said, I haven't broken one yet.

Steve


----------



## Jay H (May 17, 2007)

I will find out soon enough about the hand tools. Bought a set of metric 1/2" drive sockets from "pittsburgh". I also bought a 250lb wt trailer dolly for $30 and a couple pulleys I intend to use for my kayak rack.   

There's a $5 off $50 or more coupon floating around: *762-284-594*  expires June 1, 2007

Jay


----------



## Shane (May 17, 2007)

Has anyone ever bought an air compressor from them?  I'm considering an oiless airbrush compressor.  Don't want to waste my 50 bones though.


----------



## Gooserider (May 17, 2007)

Shane said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever bought an air compressor from them?  I'm considering an oiless airbrush compressor.  Don't want to waste my 50 bones though.


 I purchased a "Quincy" brand compressor from them a while back, and would give it a mixed review.  It compresses air just fine, runs well, and has never given me any sort of trouble.  However I find that it "runs out of steam" very quickly if I'm doing anything that involves steady air consumption like using a die grinder or a cutoff wheel.  IOW, either the tools are drawing more than their 4-5 CFM stated draw, or the compressor isn't putting out it's claimed 6 CFM @ 90 PSI rating.  It is suposedly a 3.5HP, 2 cylinder, electric (110/220 motor, came wired for 110, I switched it to 220) 20 gallon "mid size" unit, so probably bigger than the one you are looking at Shane.

If I'm using an air ratchet or an impact wrench I'm usually OK.  I have a mini-die grinder (think pneumatic dremel) and it carries that w/ a bit of a struggle, but if I use my cut-off wheel or die grinder, it gives me about 30 seconds of full power, another 30 seconds of decreasing but useable power, and then I have to let it sit for two minutes while it builds itself back up.

I would love to get a larger unit, but this one works well enough for what I need it to do.

Bottom line, I'd probably get another compressor from HF if I were shopping for one, but I would expect the actual output to only be about 50% of what is claimed.  I also wouldn't touch anything by Chicago Electrics.

Gooserider


----------



## restorer (May 17, 2007)

Shane said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever bought an air compressor from them?  I'm considering an oiless airbrush compressor.  Don't want to waste my 50 bones though.



Shane,
For the difference in price I would get a complete kit from one of the major manufacturers. They are matched compressors and brush/gun. Most come with cups or jars and a variety of tips. There are some very good ones on the market for under $200. With these you don't have to worry about compatibility. Also, you can likely find good deals on the Net or through everything from art supply stores to autobody and paint suppliers. My local paint shop had a complete Iwata kit for just over a hundred last month. I was tempted, but was only buying necessities that day. Paache and Badger have good kits also and can be readily found and have great parts availability.


----------



## restorer (May 17, 2007)

Goose:
The topic of compressors could be a separate thread that will last for ever. I used a 2HP Standard Pnuematic for years. Finally I upgraded to a Saylor Beal 5HP. Your 3.5HP is probably closer to an older 1.5HP cast iron compressor. The two ways to get more air is a larger pump, or a larger tank. You can buy a supplemental tank, 20-40gal. reasonably. Tie the tanks in series and your reserve may cover the air needs. Of course the pump will take longer to cycle, but if you are not using max air on the tool, you can extend the range of the pump. Also, dialing down the pressure to the lower range of the tool will add usable time. Say the die grinder is rated for use from 40-60psi, putting the delivered air at the lower end will decrease the max rpm some, but the effectiveness of the tool will not diminish more than 10-20%. I have a rubbing machine that demands 21cfm at 80psi. It will run at that rate, but the pump will run almost constantly. If I run it at 60psi, and use a cfm reducer it slows the cycling some, but still works fine. Pump returns to a normal 50/50 cycle.


----------



## MrGriz (May 18, 2007)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> MrGriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't know that HF tools had a lifetime guarantee.  I must say the quality in Craftsman has gone down, but I figured with the gaurantee and my limited use it wouldn't matter.  Guess I'll give the HF stuff a try.  Thanks BB


----------



## Gooserider (May 18, 2007)

MrGriz said:
			
		

> BrotherBart said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would take the HF "lifetime guarantee" with a large block of salt...  If you read it, they 1. want you to show proof of original purchase (did you actually save it?) 2. want you to send them the busted tool (compare cost of shipping to replacement cost...)  

That said, Sears used to be "walk in, hand them the tool and they hand you a new one" - now they also give you a bunch of chit, and frequently (if the tool was part of a set especially) want you to order it via the catalog, and pay overpriced shipping.  I no longer think Crapsman is worth the extra price for their decreased quality, and neither is their warrantee.

IMHO there is not that big a gap between HF and Crapsman anymore, HF is at least as good as the NON-Craftsman "SEARS" brand, probably better than K-Mart or Wally-world.  I haven't used the regular HF sockets, but their wrenches and impact sockets seem OK (I haven't busted one yet, I HAVE busted Craftsman in the past) and I would expect similar from their regular sockets.  The pricing is such that I would consider the HF tools to be a good enough value to make up for any shortage in the quality department, and they don't hurt as much to loose :red: 

Gooserider


----------



## drizler (May 18, 2007)

Don't buy HF pneumatic tools.  They truly SUCK in every respect.   You can get the name brands from them fine and dandy but stay away from the Chinese impact wrenches and the like as they just have no power and many I have seen seem to come busted right out of the box.  Go with Ingersol Rand and you cant go wrong and you will notice they are heavily discounted too.    The Chinese stuff just hasnt got the swat and gobbles air like crazy.   That makes the low power issue  of your compressor all the more a problem.     I have a Coleman 6 HP ( oil type)compressor that I got from HF and its ok.  Still not much power when it comes to painting with modern HVLP guns.  The regulator parts of the compressor aren't all that well built either.   Replaceabe but not grand quality and unable to hold up to very much heat like overdriving the unit.  On the other hand the HF grinders for $15 each are nice and hold up as good as my makitas as long as you dont lean on em too hard.


----------



## Gooserider (May 18, 2007)

Most of my air tools are Northern, but probably the same as the HF units w/ a different label.  None have given me a major problem.  My air 3/8 ratchet has a few times gotten "stuck" where it didn't want to turn with the air after I'd cranked with it by hand, but if I just work the head back and forth a few times by hand and play with the direction lever it frees itself up.

I do have an HF pencil style "mini-die grinder" that is essentially a pnuematic Dremel...  I find it works pretty good, and I like it because it fits my hand a lot better than a Dremel and isn't as clumsy.  I also have an HF palm nailer, which has done well every time I've used it, albeit mostly smaller nails while building hive bodies for my bees, but it does a nice job of sinking the nails w/ less effort than my manual hammer, and offers more flexibility in what you can drive with it than a nail gun.  I've also got an HF brad nailer, and a 1/4" crown air stapler.  The brad nailer doesn't fire reliably unless I fiddle with the safety alot, but drives fine.  The stapler has never given me any trouble at all.  I haven't used it a huge amount, but its done OK by me.

Aside from air consumption issues, I've been happy with my air tools.  Like lots of other stuff, I wouldn't want to use the HF tools to earn a living, but would consider them OK for casual use.  I agree that I-R tools are better, but even with the heavy discount, they are still two-three (or more) times the cost of the HF version of the same tool - worth it for heavy / pro use, IMHO not for casual applications.

OTOH I've had a couple of those cheapy angle grinders - the one I got from HF litterally melted the brush holders and died before I wore out the (thin) grinding wheel that it came with... I wasn't leaning on it much either. HF did give me a refund on it.  I got another one, from a local surplus store, to use in a cutoff fixture, and the shaft lock broke about the second or third disk I tried to change - again not heavily used.  I won't be trying to exchange it, as I've had it for a while (w/o using it) and it wouldn't be worth the gas to take it to the store...

Gooserider


----------



## elkimmeg (May 18, 2007)

Can't believe the amount of post concerning cheap tools.
 Cheap tools do have a place of limited usage. 

Goose you can have my chicago 18 volt versa tool package  maybe it will hold a charge long enough to sink a few drywall screws

 you can also have that 4" grinder then one that smoked out in less than 5 hours of usage Replaced witha real tool Makita
.

Like you I have bought a few as noted most are for very limited service time and no heavy usage. None are used in day to day work.

Think of them in terms of  bic lighters.  Sockets ever stripp them out? Ever bust a knuckle when their cheap ratchets let go because the plastic drive gear strips out?

 Goose you also can have the cracked impact socket set just does not withstand normal usage. The older crastsman sockets and ratchets as still preforming quite well.
 I know they now out sounce to being Chianeese made so I suspect quality is not as good.  ,Never bought a tool at Walmart so I can't critique their quality.


----------



## Shane (May 18, 2007)

Chicago Electric.... Chicago Electric..... Name sounded so familiar couldn't put my finger on it till yesterday then it hit.  Our tile saw is Chicago Electric.  I know it's atleast 8 years old and I've pounded that thing.  It's a good tool, I can't speak for there others and maybe ours was a lucky shot but it does work well.


----------



## Gooserider (May 18, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Can't believe the amount of post concerning cheap tools.
> Cheap tools do have a place of limited usage.


I'm actually a bit surprised that it's gone on as long as it has myself - seems like a lot of interest in the topic.



> Goose you can have my chicago 18 volt versa tool package  maybe it will hold a charge long enough to sink a few drywall screws


I'll take it - it probably will hold a charge longer than the B&D "flashlight" unit that I have, although it gave me good service for a couple of years, when I was rebuilding computers for a living. The little B&D cartridge batteries no longer take a charge...  

However you will note that I've suggested avoiding the Chicago Electric brand tools in my posts.  

I have actually avoided the entire battery tool game for all my tools - I can reach any where on the property with a 12g extension cord, and while it's a pain dragging AC around, I never have to recharge it, it fits all my equipment and it costs a tiny fraction of what a good pro-grade battery tool would cost.  - For a pro working on a site with no electric it's different, although back when my uncle was building homes down in Louisiana, he would put up a temporary pole service every house he built, so that was hardly a big issue.



> you can also have that 4" grinder then one that smoked out in less than 5 hours of usage Replaced witha real tool Makita



You got better service out of your HF grinder than I did out of mine  :cheese:  - I did pick up a used Makita for normal use.  I also have a 9" DeWalt that I haven't used all that much, but has been OK so far.  OTOH there are tools that I use so seldom that I couldn't ever justify purchasing a pro-grade version...  But is it better to go rent a fancy one or by an HF China cheapy version that may not last all that well, but probably costs less per hour of use than the rental rate?



> Like you I have bought a few as noted most are for very limited service time and no heavy usage. None are used in day to day work.



Agreed.  I have a lot of projects I work on, but few are daily tool use jobs.  Where they are I try to get higher grade tools if I can afford them.  I also keep an eye out for chances to pick up 'bargains' on good quality tools.  If / when I can figure out how to swing the money, I will probably go for one of those HD rental chainsaws, as it appears to be the best way to get a high grade saw at a decent price.



> Think of them in terms of  bic lighters.  Sockets ever stripp them out? Ever bust a knuckle when their cheap ratchets let go because the plastic drive gear strips out?



I haven't stripped out an HF socket yet, I have done in some Craftsman.  Ditto on the ratchets.  However I would agree with your assesment of them as BIC lighter / dispose-a-tools - but often cheap enough that it doesn't hurt that much to dispose of them.  



> Goose you also can have the cracked impact socket set just does not withstand normal usage. The older crastsman sockets and ratchets as still preforming quite well.
> I know they now out sounce to being Chianeese made so I suspect quality is not as good.  ,Never bought a tool at Walmart so I can't critique their quality.



Given the heavy equipment that you've shown off in some of your photos, I suspect you are probably harder on your sockets and ratchets than I am, but the HF stuff has held up fine on my bikes and the other things I've used it for...  

As to quality, I've never bought a WalMart / Kmart socket set, but I've used them on occasion - You know the times when you are visiting a friend (usually female) and they ask you to help them fix something and brightly tell you "Don't worry, I've got the tools", drag out the K-mart socket set, and wonder why you aren't thrilled...  HF wrenches and sockets look good enough that I generally have to pick them up and read the label to tell that they aren't Crapsman or other "higher grade" (but not Snap-On level) tools.  Wal-mart grade don't pass that "visual inspection" - the socket walls are thick, the holes are often off center, and don't look cleanly broached, etc.  The ratchets don't feel smooth acting, and in general they just look and FEEL shoddy.  The HF tools are at least better in the "fit and finish" department.

Gooserider


----------



## keyman512us (May 19, 2007)

***"Word to the Wise"***

Be leery of foreign "hoses and fittings". Most of this "cheap junk" is just that..."junk". I don't know if something get's lost along the way from the "metric mindset" to SAE "machining and milling". But it leaves something to be desired.

I was in a local "dollar type trading post" and saw a 50 foot oxy/acetylene hose for $15.00 I made the mistake...bought it and almost pulled my hair out trying to thread the cheap junk hose ends onto my nice torch and regulators...never again!

I might have saved $30 bucks by not buying a hose from the welding shop....but unfortunately it's not worth the "piece of mind" I lost (don't know if the threads are 'macked out' on the torch and regulator) GRRRR! 

...Still don't know what I was thinking...I'll be sticking with quality from now on though!


----------



## keyman512us (May 19, 2007)

elkimmeg said:
			
		

> Can't believe the amount of post concerning cheap tools.
> Cheap tools do have a place of limited usage.
> 
> Goose you can have my chicago 18 volt versa tool package  maybe it will hold a charge long enough to sink a few drywall screws
> ...



Elk...???
  You a big makita fan??? Try the Dewalt stuff.

Any other Dewalt fans out there? Any factory reps? I got stories they "make commercials out of". lol 

Driving drywall screws..."Hell now'...that ain't nothin'.." 

What can Dewalt batteries "drive"...???

...Lost the alternator in the truck "on the road" in SE CT one time. "Minimal Tools On board". Shoulda seen the look on the state troopers face after he pulled me over! PRICELESS!

"...Ahh...What's with the popped open hood and the jumper cables wrapped around the antena running into the window???"

 The trooper looks over at my friend sitting in the passenger seat...Sitting in his lap is a Dewalt 18V cordless battery with two wood-screws jammed into the terminals...connected to the cables.

""Lost the Alternator a ways back...battery is dead...Triple A says a 3 hour wait...Said the hell with it...I'll drive to the parts store and fix it! We have already gone seven miles on this set-up! Not only did it start the truck...it's keeping the thing running!" 

After that...I don't screw around...I buy Dewalt!

How's that for a charge Elk???


----------



## elkimmeg (May 19, 2007)

I have a Dwalt cordless drill I like a lot First one died right aWAY SO HOME DEPOT REPLACED IT NO PROBLEM SINCE 14.4 VOLTS 
 I use a dewalt version of a sawsall not bad but not as good as Milwalkee I have used the Dewalt compound slide miter saws again decent saws

 I like Porter cable, Bosch, Fien, Milwilkee Naturally Makita I even own some older shill tools that were contractor quality soo good the took part in over 50 

home frasmes still working today


----------



## JayY (May 19, 2007)

I have stayed away from the HF power tools but most of the hand tools have been good to me.  I think its a little like gambling so I dont like to get in too deep.  Probably the most expensive thing I have from them is the $20 moisture tester that has been discussed here from time to time.   I have some precision tools that are OK for my needs like a pittsburgh 1/2" torque  wrench and a centech digital micrometer.  The torque wrench is consistent and accurate except on the lower end.  It is supposed to be accurate down to 15-20lbs but I don't use for anything under 30.  Its a 2 ft wrench so this seems logical to me.    The Micrometer is always dead on.  I also have numerous oddball socket adapters from them,  $5 compression tester that works great,  punches, etc.  No complaints.   On the negative side, I did buy an ignition tester for $2 that was DOA.   

The Pittsburgh torque wrench really seems solid.  I would like to test out there mechanics tools but the cheap ones I bought from Wal-mart 10 years ago keep on going.  I work on old lawn mowers and gravely tractors a lot.  I routinely put 3ft pipes on the end of these ratchets to break rusty bolts free and they just keep on going.  I'm just lucky I guess.  It is a little embarrassing though when my friends come over with all the snap-on and craftsman stuff LOL.


----------



## Bob512 (May 21, 2007)

When I dumped the few HF tools that I owned in the hopper at work, the guys jumped in after them. They said don't you want them. I said they are junk, you can have them. I'm like uncle rich, you can't beat a good quality hand tool. The stuff strips and breaks and when you add up the cost of going back time and time again to replace the junk which really is cheaper.  Quick


----------



## tradergordo (May 25, 2007)

Elk - did you know that you can revive Nicad batteries with an electric welder?  Might be worth a shot.



At any rate, I'm a HF junkie   I've got at least 100 HF tools/items around the house, probably more like 200.  I've been happy with 95% of the stuff, I've had to return a few things.  For all of my extremely good deals on higher priced items I combined good sale prices with their 20% off any item coupon (they used to give these out even online, every couple of months, now they don't issue them at all.  You can occasionally get a 15% off one item coupon from their paper mailer - not nearly like the deals you used to be able to get though - I'm sure this has to do with the massive increase in cost of shipping all their stuff from China, fuel prices are double what they were a couple years ago).  Some of the stuff I bought from HF:

Wratchet straps, bungies, nylon ties, hammers, angle grinder (hasn't melted yet), pry bar, maul (their maul is excellent by the way), twist wedge (also excellent by the way), electric chainsaw sharpener (excellent and only $32, I've sharpened lots of chains even for friends), gas royobi reconditioned line trimmer (excellent and only $40! although the first one did have to be returned due to a fuel container leak which probably could have killed me), an electric power washer (junk, not worth it, total waste of money), an electric hoist, a drill press (works great - was invaluable to me in creating mason bee nests last year, incredible price considering how big and heavy it is, something like $40), 4x8 utility trailer (no complaints after 2 seasons of use, only hauls 1/3 cord of wood though, dirt cheap at $200), truckers chains, tow straps, pipe wrenches, pliar set (its like a 5 pack, these are very heavy duty, great buy, bigger than average pliars I had), socket sets, torx bit set, torque wrench, cast iron dutch oven and pans (will smoke the whole house up during seasoning, but good after that, and dirt cheap), drill pump, castors, wheels, valves, pumps, nuts, peg board hangers, micrometer, compression tester, spark plug tester, air horn (junk, waste of money), gardening stuff, etc.

I've also heard their compressors should be avoided. I bought a high quality compressor, used but in excellent condition, from eBay that I'm really happy with.  Only have a few HF air tools so far (sprayers, sander, drill, tire pump with guage).

By the way, all the Craftsman stuff is now made in China if you didn't know that already.


----------



## Gooserider (May 25, 2007)

tradergordo said:
			
		

> Elk - did you know that you can revivie Nicad batteries with an electric welder?  Might be worth a shot.



It might work, but I wouldn't try it without a good blast shield between me and the battery - can you say shrapnel?  Also worth noting that the stuff in many batteries is quite toxic...



> At any rate, I'm a HF junkie   I've got at least 100 HF tools/items around the house, probably more like 200.  I've been happy with 95% of the stuff, I've had to return a few things.  For all of my extremely good deals on higher priced items I combined good sale prices with their 20% off any item coupon (they used to give these out even online, every couple of months, now they don't issue them at all.  You can occasionally get a 15% off one item coupon from their paper mailer - not nearly like the deals you used to be able to get though - I'm sure this has to do with the massive increase in cost of shipping all their stuff from China, fuel prices are double what they were a couple years ago).  Some of the stuff I bought from HF:
> 
> Wratchet straps, bungies, nylon ties, hammers, angle grinder (hasn't melted yet), pry bar, maul (their maul is excellent by the way), twist wedge (also excellent by the way), electric chainsaw sharpener (excellent and only $32, I've sharpened lots of chains even for friends), gas royobi reconditioned line trimmer (excellent and only $40! although the first one did have to be returned due to a fuel container leak which probably could have killed me), an electric power washer (junk, not worth it, total waste of money), an electric hoist, a drill press (works great - was invaluable to me in creating mason bee nests last year, incredible price considering how big and heavy it is, something like $40), 4x8 utility trailer (no complaints after 2 seasons of use, only hauls 1/3 cord of wood though, dirt cheap at $200), truckers chains, tow straps, pipe wrenches, pliar set (its like a 5 pack, these are very heavy duty, great buy, bigger than average pliars I had), socket sets, torx bit set, torque wrench, cast iron dutch oven and pans (will smoke the whole house up during seasoning, but good after that, and dirt cheap), drill pump, castors, wheels, valves, pumps, nuts, peb board hangars, micrometer, compression tester, spark plug tester, air horn (junk, waste of money), gardening stuff, etc.
> 
> ...


I've had several of those items as well - except for some of the electrical stuff (like the angle grinder) most were pretty good.  Their bench grinder has been fine for me.

Gooserider


----------

