# Flood at startup on oN older (stihl) saw?



## ADK_XJ (Apr 26, 2015)

Hey all, coming back to the experts here - I am seeming to run into a flooding issue with my old saw (it's a Stihl 0-41AV "farmboss") when I try to start it up. At least, as best I can tell.

Here's the deal: it ran great on Thursday, Saturday AM I changed out the 16" bar for a 20" (turned it to its side) and went to start - no go. Pulled the plug and it was wet. Made sure I had a spark and even switched spark plugs, but just could not get it going and a good layer of gas/oil mix developed on the muffler.

This seems to happen like once a month. If I pull the spark plug, drain the tank and let it sit overnight it tends to come right back but that's no way to work!

Any ideas out there?


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## duramaxman05 (Apr 26, 2015)

Possibly dirt is holding the needle open causing it to flood


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 26, 2015)

And, for clarification, I use ethanol free and one of those mixing "pitchers" to get the right ratio - when I couldn't get it going at first I used one of those $$ pre-mix cans of stuff you get at the big box stores.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 26, 2015)

duramaxman05 said:


> Possibly dirt is holding the needle open causing it to flood


Ok, possible based on conditions - how might I fix? It's done this both Sat and today now.


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## duramaxman05 (Apr 26, 2015)

You can start by cleaning your fuel taank and put a new fuel filter on. I bet you will have to take the carb off and clean it. Also  check the needle height.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 26, 2015)

duramaxman05 said:


> You can start by cleaning your fuel taank and put a new fuel filter on. I bet you will have to take the carb off and clean it. Also  check the needle height.


Ok, know of any good resources or how-to's on this forum or others for doing that? I'm a novice when it comes to more than changing the bar/chain and fluids.


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## duramaxman05 (Apr 26, 2015)

I dont have any tips or tricks. We have the same saw you do, but i have never really messed with it other than putting a new kill switch in it.


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## duramaxman05 (Apr 26, 2015)

Maybe someone else on here will chime in. You can also check youtube to see if there are any videos on it.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 26, 2015)

Ok, fair enough - we're in the same boat then! 

I did also just read this great little rundown on "chainsaw wisdom" that I remember skimming when I first joined the forum - I think this bit about fouling spark plugs is what's happening to me: 

"With oil gas mixture it is real easy to foul a spark plug.  If you have had a hard time starting it after repeated attempts, chances are you flooded the carburetor and fouled the spark plug. Remove the spark plug pull the starter a few times. This flushes out the flooded gas. Replace with new plug and do not choke it down. Try starting with the choke off."

For anyone searching this thread later on you can read the whole piece (it's good, basic, common sense knowledge) here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/chainsaw_wisdom


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## Jags (Apr 27, 2015)

Is this only an issue with a cold saw, or will it happen when warm?  By "cold" I mean needing the choke to start.  It could be that you are simply missing the "blip" and are choking it beyond its needs.  I never pull more than 3 times with the choke on.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

Jags said:


> Is this only an issue with a cold saw, or will it happen when warm?  By "cold" I mean needing the choke to start.  It could be that you are simply missing the "blip" and are chocking it beyond its needs.  I never pull more than 3 times with the choke on.


Unfortunately it's happened both ways — cold and warm. What seems to be a guarantee is if I flip it on its side and change out a bar or chain — even if it's been running, that will seem to give it this flood issue.


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## Jags (Apr 27, 2015)

Hmmm...that does indicate fuel slipping past the carb.  041 is getting some age.  It might be wise to just do a carb rebuild.  Usually the carb kits are small bucks.


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## WES999 (Apr 27, 2015)

When you clean the carb, change the rubber diaphragms, they get old and hard and will cause you problems.


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## dougand3 (Apr 27, 2015)

If it has a Tillotson carb, repair kits are ~$8. New replacement carbs are $20 shipped from China or $26 shipped from USA. I'm ~50% joy rebuilding carbs - if the differential between new carb and kit is $10-$15 or less, I normally just buy a new carb. Search ebay.
Although first, I'll try a no cost repair - clean carb screen, check needle lever height, pull needle and inspect tip - clean tip, soak metering diaphragm in brake fluid (it can make it more pliable), pull Hi-Lo screws and clean with carb cleaner.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

Okay, so sounds like some form of carb cleaning / rebuild is in the works. I have to say, up until this last 12-18 months I was never a very handy person with machines (computers, I'm your guy) but with help from places online like this one and a decent workbench/tools I'm getting there...however, is there anywhere on Hearth.com or elsewhere I can find a good (I'm talking step-by-step) guide for disassembly of this thing?

Back on the ranch, I decided to go get a second opinion at the Stihl dealer near my work because the guy near my house laughed at me when I hauled in my old 041AV and said "i won't work on antiques." This other shop gave me the reaction I was hoping for: "That's a really good saw, you won't easily/cheaply replace it — we'll gladly work on it for you."

They were very up-front but then said depending on the issue I could be looking at $60-80 in repair. Maybe I should try the carb clean/replace on my own first?


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## dougand3 (Apr 27, 2015)

You can google "Chainsaw carb repair". Eg. Here is one by donyboy73.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

dougand3 said:


> You can google "Chainsaw carb repair".


Perfect. Man, you can google just about anything and make it happen, I guess. Next I'll try "find a million dollars."


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

So, the saw ran fine the first part of this evening - after refilling with mix, it ran hard and stuttering. It had very little power with a freshly sharpened chain (and cutting a downed pine) and would almost "break up" at full throttle and choke out.

I've definitely got some cleaning up to do with this thing.


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## DougA (Apr 27, 2015)

New carbs are easy and cheap to switch out.  If you have never taken a tiny carb apart, I would not recommend changing just the interior gaskets/baffles. I've done it and there are a lot of very tiny parts that need precise adjustments. Almost always, there will be sawdust that got into the carb and is sticking the needle or one of the ports.  If you buy a new one, take the old one apart and clean with gas and have it ready to switch out sometime in the future.


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## DougA (Apr 27, 2015)

Your last post sounds more like sawdust in the carb. Take the air filter off and pull it apart and make sure it is clean. You may just need to adjust your HL settings.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

DougA said:


> Your last post sounds more like sawdust in the carb. Take the air filter off and pull it apart and make sure it is clean. You may just need to adjust your HL settings.


Yeah? Ok - will do. So, does the quote of $60-80 for a repair at the shop see, ludicrous for the amount of work to do a carb repair DIY style?

Edit: "seem" not see - damn, iPad!


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## DougA (Apr 27, 2015)

As Doug&3 says, you can buy a new carb for cheap. They are VERY easy to switch. I like HL Supply for parts. 
http://www.hlsproparts.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=stihl+carb&Submit=


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

DougA said:


> As Doug&3 says, you can buy a new carb for cheap. They are VERY easy to switch. I like HL Supply for parts.
> http://www.hlsproparts.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=stihl carb&Submit=


Ok, so I decided to go ahead and grab a carb kit and take this baby at least that far apart.

One thing I am wondering is if my startup routine is causing the initial flood. I thought you were supposed to click on the throttle lock first and do a couple pulls with the choke down - but I just watched another of the previously mentioned "Donyboy73" videos where he starts the same saw without using the throttle lock at all. My question is, should I not engage the throttle lock until AFTER I've done a couple choked pulls?

I'll be feeling real dumb if that's the case and I'll have a clear culprit for my fouled plugs...


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## DougA (Apr 27, 2015)

On both my 026s, on a cold start I always put the choke on full, pull 2 to 3 times and almost always hear it 'blip' which I would call more of a blurp, then adjust the choke to off, then pull once or twice and it should start.  When re-filling the tanks, I usually don't even put the saw on choke, just pull and it's fine.

This sounds easy but it does take some amount of knowing your saw and both listening for and feeling what is going on.  I think all of us have experienced some real problems in getting any chainsaw started and almost always it's bad gas, fouled plugs, fouled carb or flooded.  You could also have problems with a bad gas line, bad plug, etc but these normally won't allow the saw to run at all or at least run properly at all.

If you want to take it in for service, then it may be worth it for you to stick around and watch what the tech does.  Sometimes I get really exasperated and I would rather spend the $$  and get the trees cut than spend a few hours fiddling with the saw.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 27, 2015)

DougA said:


> On both my 026s, on a cold start I always put the choke on full, pull 2 to 3 times and almost always hear it 'blip' which I would call more of a blurp, then adjust the choke to off, then pull once or twice and it should start.  When re-filling the tanks, I usually don't even put the saw on choke, just pull and it's fine.
> 
> This sounds easy but it does take some amount of knowing your saw and both listening for and feeling what is going on.  I think all of us have experienced some real problems in getting any chainsaw started and almost always it's bad gas, fouled plugs, fouled carb or flooded.  You could also have problems with a bad gas line, bad plug, etc but these normally won't allow the saw to run at all or at least run properly at all.
> 
> If you want to take it in for service, then it may be worth it for you to stick around and watch what the tech does.  Sometimes I get really exasperated and I would rather spend the $$  and get the trees cut than spend a few hours fiddling with the saw.


Right. So, do you do that start routine with the throttle lock on, though? Or does the 026 not have one?

I'm with you. I've got a pile of giant pine sections taken down by a crew last week right next to the house and I'd rather be running the saw than tinkering with it at the moment. However, I am a big fan of the whole "teach a man to fish" principle so I like your idea of sticking around to watch the repair. Either way, the pile of pine ain't shrinking on its own and my wife is starting to think we should have paid to have the crew remove them...pssssh!


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## Jags (Apr 28, 2015)

As a starting point:
Cold saw - full choke, throttle lock on - pull 3 times (or hear the blurp/blip) - choke off, still on high throttle, pull till running.

Warm saw - move switch to normal run - pull till running.  Depending on sit time, it is possible that it _might _need a single choke pull, then move to high throttle and pull to run.  Absolutely no more than one choke pull if the machine has been running in the last 15-20 minutes and ONLY if several unchoked pulls does not start the saw.

There will be mild changes and variations on the above based off of several thing (such as altitude, carb tuning, fuel, etc).
Stihl saws are very easy to flood if you aren't on top of the start sequence.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 28, 2015)

Jags said:


> As a starting point:
> Cold saw - full choke, throttle lock on - pull 3 times (or hear the blurp/blip) - choke off, still on high throttle, pull till running.
> 
> Warm saw - move switch to normal run - pull till running.  Depending on sit time, it is possible that it _might _need a single choke pull, then move to high throttle and pull to run.  Absolutely no more than one choke pull if the machine has been running in the last 15-20 minutes and ONLY if several unchoked pulls does not start the saw.
> ...


Okay, so I have been doing it pretty much in line with that but your point about being easy to flood is pretty much the universal thing I read about Stihl's. As I posted earlier from the forum's "Chainsaw Wisdom" guide, it sounds like the thing to do is pull the plug, pull the starter to clear the excess gas and then try to start again un-choked.


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## Jags (Apr 28, 2015)

Yes - if flooded, that is the quickest way to clear it out. Never choke a flooded saw. Ever.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 28, 2015)

Jags said:


> Yes - if flooded, that is the quickest way to clear it out. Never choke a flooded saw. Ever.


And as obvious as that is, I'm pretty sure that's what I'd been doing — managing to flood it, then naively starting over with the choke on. It's dangerous when you operate like a monkey, just pushing the red button for your bananas instead of thinking your way through the process! That's why I love this forum...so much experiential knowledge.

Thanks, Jags and all who've responded. I'll send an update once I've done some clean-out of the saw and/or moved through a replacement of parts/carb.


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## DougA (Apr 28, 2015)

Yes, it has a throttle lock but I think of it as the full choke position since that's what it's doing also.


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## Jags (Apr 28, 2015)

Bottom position is throttle lock w/choke.  One position up is throttle lock only.


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## ADK_XJ (Apr 28, 2015)

So, I bought some "Blaster" brand Lawn Mower Tuneup compressed cleaner (dude at Tractor Supply said it was like carb cleaner specifically for small engines) and ran that through the saw when I got home tonight. Blew out a ton of smoke and then ran it for 10-15 cuts on some giant chunks of pine - it did OK but still seemed to bottom out a bit at the top end deep into the cut.

I've also noticed it's not staying on at idle.

I took the bar and top cover off. Scraped a bunch of sawdust off the inside and around the rotor. I pulled the filter and cleaned a lot of gunk off the top plate over the choke hole. I'd been thinking my air filter was clean but under an indoor light I realized it was actually way off color. Anyone want to tell me this thing is horrendous and could be part of my problem? Before and after photos below.

Then I reset my idle, high and low screws to factory setting. I don't think the H was far off but the low and idle seemed kinda wonky for how far I had to turn them to go back to zero.

Finally, I noticed that as I pull the starter without starting I hear air escaping out of the top of the fuel cap on the tank. Is this normal? I've attached another picture showing where that air is coming out.


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## DougA (Apr 28, 2015)

I prefer the felt air filter but it looks OK to me. Mine is coated in sawdust when the engine starts getting wonky and I take it apart then put the filter in a can with 4 oz of gas and swish it around. Clean as can be after that.  Sorry, no idea on the gas cap, not anything like mine but I do have a pressure release tube on my gas tank which would do the same thing.

I find sometimes the idle will stay perfect for many tankfuls, then the next time out, I have to adjust idle quite a bit.  I sorta get lazy and allow the idle to get higher than it's supposed to be - to a degree. If the chain is spinning a bit - a BIT -, I'm OK with that and I use the chain brake when I pause. Not saying that you should allow the chain to run on idle but I get sick of adjusting it all the time when it wants to idle faster. Most of us have the throttle on full and only pause to get the saw lined up for the next cut.


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