# Premix:  Good?  Bad?  Worth it?



## SolarAndWood (Aug 8, 2013)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...GlobalSearch=true&sst=subset&typeaheadSearch=

I go through maybe 10 gallons of fuel a year through 4 machines and prefer to do as little maintenance as possibly yet expect stuff to work right.  I currently do 2 gallons at a time and try to buy ethanol free premium.  Is the premium for the premix worth it given my relatively light use?  Is there a cheaper way to buy it than Grainger?

I've read the other fuel related threads and it seems the consensus is that Stabil is the solution for low volume users like me?  It has worked wonders for the old Onan in my mower.  Which way am I better off?


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 8, 2013)

$20+ per gallon for gas?  Ouch.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 8, 2013)

Yep, my first reaction too. I figure I am at about $7/gallon with home made mix. So, we are talking about a $130 premium per year to run this stuff. I could probably cut that in half or more if I did home made in the trimmer and primary firewood saw during their heavy use periods and then switched to this stuff as their use tailed off?


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## Jags (Aug 8, 2013)

I think you are a tiny bit crazy.


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## smokinj (Aug 8, 2013)

I use 93 and running the 460 for 7 years now probably over 150 cords. No issues and around 5.00 a gallon. If I was running that stuff it would not take to long to justify a brand new saw.


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## Fifelaker (Aug 8, 2013)

I have used 89 octane no booze and Stihl ultra for 9 years now. I figure $5.50-$6.00 a gal. No problems and if there is I don't think it will be a bad fuel issue.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 8, 2013)

In my honest opinion after running a chainsaw on and off for the past 15 or so years with the past three or four years having moderate use as I have cut my own firewood . . . AND running a snowmobile for the past ten years or so . . . folks worry way, way too much about the gas in their saws.

In general . . . follow the manufactuer's requirements for octane level and mix ratios.

Use a stabilizing agent (I prefer Star Tron) when you do not expect to use your two stroke equipment for a signfiicant period of time.

Now it's only anecodatal and a personal experience . . . but I have yet to have any issues related to ethanol in the fuel, not going with the super high winder fuel, etc.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 8, 2013)

If your useing NON E fuel thats all the premix quarts are anyhow??  Also if you use Stihl or Husqvarna brand oil there is a fuel stabilizer already added into the oil.

I have run husqvarna brand oil for several years now with premium fuel, no problems with 6month or even sometimes 1 year old fuel.


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## maple1 (Aug 8, 2013)

I use only regular gas (I was gonna say the cheap stuff but none of it is cheap), and Stihl mixing oil. Absolutely no fuel issues, and they sit for quite a while sometimes. As already said, the Stihl oil has stabilizer in it - in my non-mixed gas jugs, if it will be sitting for a while, I just give it a shot of Stabil.


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## 343amc (Aug 8, 2013)

I have a friend who used to work in a small engine shop who swears up and down that gas goes bad in 60 days. I must be really lucky.


I run 2 cycle oil I get from my local dealer in my saws, weed eater and leaf blower. I am admittedly negligent with my equipment when it comes to draining the fuel and what not, but knock on wood I haven't ever had an issue, even with my dads old Poulan 3750 from 1983 that is pretty much all original except for the bar, air filter and chain. I wasn't much better when I had snowmobiles.

I have an old dirt bike, a 1976 Suzuki TS-185 2 stroke. It was in the back of a storage building at a friends house for 12 years. I stored it there in between house moves and I'd forgot all about it until last year when I got a call saying "come get your bike as I need the room". I went over there, aired up the tires as both were flat, moved it outside and decided to kick it over to see if the engine was seized up. It kicked over and there was still some gas in the tank. What was in the tank had a hit of gas smell, but also had a good 'varnish' scent to it. I turned on the gas valve, kicked it a few times and it started up. It didn't run that great, but it ran. I rode it to the drive way, loaded it on my truck and took it home. I did eventually drain that out and rebuild the carb.


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## Ashful (Aug 8, 2013)

Recommended procedure by my Stihl dealer:

1. Run 93 octane pump gas (E-10%, around here) in the saws you're using regularly.
2. If the saw will be sitting a while, dump the pump gas and run a little ethanol-free thru it.

Given that pre-mix is the easiest way to obtain ethanol-free around here, they suggest using that for item 2 above. They don't recommend actually burning it in the saw, other than for storage, due to the cost. The pre-mix they sell is supposedly good for 2 years, in the saw.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Stihl only recomends 89 octane, but i dont think any E is good for a 2 stroke, cant say what the manual says as mine is before it was law, i think? And i just dont read the thing anymore. SO cant say what a current one says in regards to E???


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## lukem (Aug 8, 2013)

I run 87 octane gas-o-hol in all my stuff.  My trimmer sits thru about 6 months of the year with last season's fuel and starts the same as it does when I used it a day ago.  Never had a fuel related issue other than debris in a fuel filter.


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## Ashful (Aug 8, 2013)

lukem said:


> I run 87 octane gas-o-hol in all my stuff. My trimmer sits thru about 6 months of the year with last season's fuel and starts the same as it does when I used it a day ago. Never had a fuel related issue other than debris in a fuel filter.


 
Same here.  Was quoting what my dealer stated, not giving my own opinion.  I ran nothing but 87 for years, and never had a problem with things sitting a year, or longer.  But, that was 1990's / early 2000's, prior to E-10.

Now I run E-10 / 93 octane, and still let it sit in the equipment all year round.  No troubles.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 8, 2013)

In 2 cycle i run NO E premium fuel, not sure if its 91,92,93??? I can get it around here, its 20 cents more maybe but i dont use that much to matter.

Only 2 cycle i run 87 NO E in is the boat, i buy NO E gas for it in 87 octane. But because i live within 15 minutes of a huge lake, the gas is redialy availible.


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## DuckDog (Aug 8, 2013)

I run pump premium no E fuel and mix with Opti-2.  The opti has a fuel stabilizer in it already. One less step.  No issues at all.  I have bounced between Opti-2 and Amsoil for the last decade or so.  Don't think I could lay out the cash on the fuel linked above.


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## Thistle (Aug 8, 2013)

I've been using ethanol in all my gas engines for probably 15 years now,ever since it was introduced around here anyway.Never any problems with how things run or their longevity.Regarding my saws & weed trimmer etc if I know they wont be used for a month or so (which is pretty rare lately) I drain the tank,put it back in the mix can.

As much gas as I go through,especially when milling I couldn't afford the price for that premix 40-1 or 50-1 gas in those quart metal cans.About $7 each at Lowes last I checked,My 2 big Husky saws hold around 1 liter each,the Mac 125 holds about 50 ounces.

You're talking anywhere from $20-30 &  up for a busy day cutting for that stuff.No way.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 8, 2013)

The main negative I've heard about ethanol is that it degrades some rubber parts over long periods of time. Having just torn an 034 down into little pieces, I can say with confidence that the only rubber parts that would normally stay in contact with liquid fuel while the saw was not in use would be the fuel line and the carburetor diaphragm. Ehh, maybe there's a rubber gasket on the gas cap -- I wasn't paying attention to that. My saw, which was a Craigslist freebie, had sat with fuel in it for a couple of years according to the guy who gave it to me. The part of the fuel line hanging down in the tank was indeed very soft and gummy, but the diaphragm seemed fine. Other than rubber parts, I don't know what the problem would be.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 8, 2013)

The Carb will dry out usually before it is eaten away. I have replaced fuel lines in like everything I have before I quit using the E fuel. I have dealt in a mower with a gummed up carb at the farm. I would leave E fuel in it. I would return 5-6 weeks latter and have to pull Carb apart and pull the needle out of the seat. And it would be all gooey and crystalized. I put a fuel cut off on and run it dry and nor had to pull Carb apart since,  before I had to every time. And this was after a fresh rebuild the problems started.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> I think you are a tiny bit crazy.


 

I'm surprised that's still an open question...thanks for all the input.


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## MrWhoopee (Aug 9, 2013)

I asked the "premium or regular ?" question at my local saw shop. They pointed out that premium sells much more slowly, therefore sits in the underground tanks much longer than regular. So the question becomes "stale premium or fresh regular ?". The answer, as you might expect, was fresh regular. I use Stens oil, which meets the latest standards and contains fuel stabilizer. I mix a gallon or 2 at a time, depending on my expected use. No problems.


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## Ashful (Aug 9, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> I asked the "premium or regular ?" question at my local saw shop. They pointed out that premium sells much more slowly, therefore sits in the underground tanks much longer than regular. So the question becomes "stale premium or fresh regular ?".


 
The guys at your local saw shop seem to know about as much about operating a gas station as I do about brain surgery.

I worked thru my teenage years at a 10-pump Texaco station, and can tell you those premium tanks empty and get refilled as frequently as the regular, if not more so. Our premium tank was only 9600 gallons, whereas we had storage for roughly 20,000 gallons of regular. The companies who plan these stations consider the sale rates of each product, when sizing the tanks. All of these tanks have water in the bottom of them, but we paid more attention to keeping the water level in check on the premium and plus tanks, than we did on the regular.

_edit:  What always surprised me is that we actually had a "plus" tank.  I always thought it would be much smarter to just blend the premium product with regular via mixing valves, to get the "plus" (89) octane rating._


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## lukem (Aug 9, 2013)

Yeah...the premium tanks are way smaller than the regular tanks, generally speaking.

When the delivery man cometh, he delivereth all types of fuel whether thou needeth them or not.


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## Ashful (Aug 9, 2013)

BTW... if you ever see a tanker truck filling the tanks at your local gas station, drive on by.  Do not stop for gas.  That water on the bottom of the tank?  It gets stirred and mixed with the product during the fill process.  We had tank monitors which would tell us how much water was in the tank at any time.  During the fill cycle, and for some time after (until things could settle and re-separate) they'd read low.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 9, 2013)

Many stations here blend premium and regular. The owner of one told me when I inquired about non E. He said premium is no E and 87 is 10% an. Mid grade would be 7% ish as its a mix of the 2.

Why don't they have water separating filters??  Also with the E duel it will absorb that water now a days!!


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## Ashful (Aug 9, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Why don't they have water separating filters?? Also with the E duel it will absorb that water now a days!!


 
I was working at a gas station 20+ years ago, so this was pre-ethanol. In those days they just made sure the tank sump was 6" above the floor of the tank, so you could have up to 6" of water standing in the tank, before any would get sucked into the pump. They would have this water pumped out a few times a year, when it got too high, but I got the impression that's an expense they try to avoid as long as possible.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 9, 2013)

OK so ur talking back then. I would think today there I separating filters or I would hope so.


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## Jags (Aug 9, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> OK so ur talking back then. I would think today there I separating filters or I would hope so.


Today is probably less of an issue than back in the day.  With the E in todays fuel it will tend to absorb the water.  Pure gas won't.


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## jharkin (Aug 9, 2013)

As has been mentioned the ethanol is mostly bad for the rubber carb diaphragms. YellownFuel lines are tygon and i believe e safe. Anything built in the last 10+ years has e10 safe rubber. I don't worry about it.

I buy plain old regular in 5 gallon jugs and mix with stabil. From the 5gal I make up 2 stroke mix 1/2 to 1 gal at a time as needed. Every 6 months whats left in the 5 gal cans go into the SUV and I refill.


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