# Wood Felling Predicament



## Nelson (Nov 1, 2014)

I'm attempting to fell a 16-18 dia Elm that is growing between two larger oaks. I took multiple looks at it to make sure I was comfortable that it didn't get hung up and felt pretty good about it. Turns out, I was wrong. I attempted to use wedges to get it to fall but they didn't budge it. After multiple attempts with the wedges, I resorted to try to persuade it with a long rope and pulling.While I was able to get it sway some, all it did was shimmy the tree off to one side of the stump. As it stands now ,the tree is essentially sitting square half on the trump, with the other half overhanging.

Looking for any advice on tihs one. Haven't run into this before and not sure where to go. I think I have a come-along that I may attempt to use tomorrow to get it to move but, outside of that, I'm out of ideas. I don't think I want to go near it with a saw at this point as I don't have confidence in which way it will fall.

Sorry, I don't have pics. I was out there til it got too dark to work and forgot to snap some. May try and post a few tomorrow if you think it would help understand the situation.

TIA!


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## WoodPorn (Nov 1, 2014)

Can you pull it with a truck/long rope?
Maybe a pulley to direct it away from the vehicle?


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## Nelson (Nov 1, 2014)

I tried with my lawn tractor to no avail. Don't have a truck. It kind of in a tight spot so I'm not sure I could even use a truck if I had one. I think I have a come-along that I may attempt to rig up and see if I can get it to move that way.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 1, 2014)

Definitely calls for some pics. It can be done but it isn't for the faint of heart. Or from advise from folks not seeing the setup.


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## Vikestand (Nov 1, 2014)

Try a come-along?


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## BigCountryNY (Nov 1, 2014)

Definitely need to see some pics to be able to offer any advice. I'm curious where it got hung up in the process when you made the initial felling cut.  Did you use an open-face notch with a felling cut?


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## Nelson (Nov 1, 2014)

BigCountryNY said:


> Definitely need to see some pics to be able to offer any advice. I'm curious where it got hung up in the process when you made the initial felling cut.  Did you use an open-face notch with a felling cut?



i used a conventional notch.

I completed the process of the felling cut. I think I misjudged where the weight of the tree was and that caused it to sit down rather than fall over. I used wedges to try and get it to go but they weren't big enough to make a difference. Big mistake was not staking my wedges to start - learned my lesson there. Open-face may have worked better in this scenario.

Thanks for the respones thus far. I wil get some pics in the morning. 

I have a large amount of respect for felling trees and I always take my time, but this one definitely has me sweating. I'm no seasoned vet at felling trees but I've done enough to feel pretty comfortable. That said, the 16-18 in diameter is about as big as I want to go.


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## Nelson (Nov 1, 2014)

Vikestand said:


> Try a come-along?



As it stands right now, that is my next course of action. Like I said, I had it swaying but I just ran out of energy trying to pull it.


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## Nelson (Nov 1, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Definitely calls for some pics. It can be done but it isn't for the faint of heart. Or from advise from folks not seeing the setup.



Understood. Figured I would throw it out there tonight just to get some ideas. I hate leaving it out there like that.


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## jeff_t (Nov 2, 2014)

Can you stack wedges?

Sounds like the face cut may be too deep?


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

jeff_t said:


> Can you stack wedges?
> 
> Sounds like the face cut may be too deep?



I think not stacking wedges was my big mistake. I think it's past the point of being able to stack any wedges as the fell cut has closed somewhat, due to the tree settling straight down on the stump.

I don't think the face cut was too deep. Went about 1/4-1/3 way in but maybe. What happens if the face cut is too deep?


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## BigCountryNY (Nov 2, 2014)

The face cut on an open-face notch should cover about 80% of the breast height diameter of the tree at roughly a 70 degree angle and should only go in 15-20% of the breast height diameter.  Your hinge size should be 10% of the breast height diameter.  If the face cut (directional notch) is cut too deep and the hinge is too far back, it could result in the tree popping off the back of the stump. 

I like to use a plunge cut so that I can leave a little holding patch at the back of the felling cut.  This buys me just a little more time to make one final look around and make sure everything is clear before the tree comes down.


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

BigCountryNY said:


> The face cut on an open-face notch should cover about 80% of the breast height diameter of the tree at roughly a 70 degree angle and should only go in 15-20% of the breast height diameter.  Your hinge size should be 10% of the breast height diameter.  If the face cut (directional notch) is cut too deep and the hinge is too far back, it could result in the tree popping off the back of the stump.
> 
> I like to use a plunge cut so that I can leave a little holding patch at the back of the felling cut.  This buys me just a little more time to make one final look around and make sure everything is clear before the tree comes down.



Thanks for that info BigCountry. Your instructions are pretty close to what I typically do except that I have been using a conventional notch instead of an open-face. I too like to use a plunge cut to leave a little bit at the end in tact so I can take one more look around. In this case, as my way back toward the end of my felling cut, my blade got pinched. That makes me think I misjudged the where the weight was.


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## MJFlores (Nov 2, 2014)

MY property is wooded, so I deal with potential hang ups all the time.  Hard to say without pics...but at this point I'd put a come along with a really logs rope or chain on it and crank it to where you want it to fall...then go behind with your saw and nibble on the back cut....crank come along, nibble, etc..until it's leaning good toward where you want it or the come along just pulls it down.  Having a helper putting tension on the come along speeds things up.  If it does get snagged, and they do sometimes...you just have to take it down 3 feet at a time which I hate but sometimes you just have to.


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## smokedragon (Nov 2, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> Definitely calls for some pics. It can be done but it isn't for the faint of heart. Or from advise from folks not seeing the setup.


I agree with BB, I have cut my way out of many problems, but without pictures, not much can be said.

If you have cut away enough tree, and it is simply leaning back on your felling cut (and the way it sounds, your hinge is no longer intact) then pulling the tree in the direction you want it to fall is the only way to go.  Still think it would be tough to advise you even with pictures.  Sound dangerous, be careful.


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)




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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

PIcs above were from this morning. Since then, I tied it off and was able to get it to drop off the stump. It's now standing straight up and down on the ground. I've been trying to pull it down but it looks like there is a bigger branch, up top, that is hung up on one of the nearby oak branches.

I thought about attempting to do another fell cut (open-face) but i'm worried about what will happen. My guess is that the new "stump" will be unpredictable when it goes and I don't want to be around it when it does. 

Thanks for all the replies. I understand that there is hesitation in giving advice. At this point, I think I may give up and call a tree service and let them deal with it.

Andy


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

The tree in question is in between the two oaks - this pic is facing west. I would like the  tree to fall to the northwest. As you can see. It is leaning in the right direction but it's  hung up.


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## smokedragon (Nov 2, 2014)

I see you have a rope in it.  You are gonna have to pull and keep an eye on that thing.  Whatever you do, don't go near that base again.  That is very dangerous.

You need a come-along, or a big truck.  Pull and MOVE.

I think most tree services would either charge you an arm and a leg, or just pass.


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## maple1 (Nov 2, 2014)

How did you pull it off the stump? I think I would keep doing that if you can't pull it over from the top- pull the bottom the other way. Should slide along the ground unless it hits an obstacle, like another stump or something.


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## Fred Wright (Nov 2, 2014)

Cutting at the base in this situation could be dangerous. Upright hangers do unpredictable things when disturbed. You don't want to be anywhere near the fell zone while working with it.

If the tree was hung at a steeper angle you might be able to cut low and drop it. As it is now, it would be safer to pull over with a rope or cable, snatch block pulley and a tractor.


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## BoiledOver (Nov 2, 2014)

Can ya get your tractor in place to pull the trunk in southeast direction? Whatever ya do.........SAFETY FIRST

Check your weather forecast, a south wind might do it for ya.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Nov 2, 2014)

couple whacks with a sledge hammer she'll come down. Which way is any ones guess.


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

maple1 said:


> How did you pull it off the stump? I think I would keep doing that if you can't pull it over from the top- pull the bottom the other way. Should slide along the ground unless it hits an obstacle, like another stump or something.



I had it tied down and secured to a tree on the north side. Form there, I whacked it with a sledge hammer a few times and, eventually, it dropped off. Dropped straight off and is standing damn near upright right next to the stump.

My wife actually suggested the same thing, RE: pulling the stump in the oposition direction. I went out and bought a come-along so I'm going to see if I can pull it down with that. If that doesn't work, I will try pulling the stump.


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

Fred Wright said:


> Cutting at the base in this situation could be dangerous. Upright hangers do unpredictable things when disturbed. You don't want to be anywhere near the fell zone while working with it.
> 
> If the tree was hung at a steeper angle you might be able to cut low and drop it. As it is now, it would be safer to pull over with a rope or cable, snatch block pulley and a tractor.



Agreed. I'm not going near with a saw at this point.

I have a 4 ton come-along now and I'm going to give that a try as I htink that is the safer route as it will keep me away from the drop zone.


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## MJFlores (Nov 2, 2014)

I would feel safe about making another felling cut three feet up from the base of the trunk now.  I deal with this sort of thing all the time as I said in my earlier post....most of my trees end up this way because it's so heavily wooded where I cut.  Juts take it slow, pick your direction and make the tree go.  Putting a rope and come along on and pulling tension before hand will help persuade it to go.  It wont stand up like that forever.  Many times I have a tree come down like that, and I end up cutting out 3 or 4 three foot sections before the tree is down.  I envy people who cut and drop their trees into an opening or field.  Hang ups stink but it's all part of cutting down trees, at least around here.  Good luck, and be safe.


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## maple1 (Nov 2, 2014)

I would not cut that again. Its already free at the bottom & stuck at the top. Pull the bottom away from the lean - you'll be out from under it to start with & moving further away from the fall zone as you go.


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## jaoneill (Nov 2, 2014)

Nelson said:


> I think not stacking wedges was my big mistake. I think it's past the point of being able to stack any wedges as the fell cut has closed somewhat, due to the tree settling straight down on the stump.





MJFlores said:


> I would feel safe about making another felling cut three feet up from the base of the trunk now.  I deal with this sort of thing all the time as I said in my earlier post....most of my trees end up this way because it's so heavily wooded where I cut.  Juts take it slow, pick your direction and make the tree go.  Putting a rope and come along on and pulling tension before hand will help persuade it to go.  It wont stand up like that forever.  Many times I have a tree come down like that, and I end up cutting out 3 or 4 three foot sections before the tree is down.  I envy people who cut and drop their trees into an opening or field.  Hang ups stink but it's all part of cutting down trees, at least around here.  Good luck, and be safe.



Elm has to be the trickiest breed to fell, bar none. Most of them seem to be almost perfectly balanced. 
I have the advantage of a large woodlot, half mile off any road, and no nearby neighbors that might wander through, so usually when I get a "hanger" I walk away and revisit it next time I happen into that section of the woods; unless it is seriously hung the wind will often take care of it with no efort on my part. If after a while it hasn't come down, or is hung in a crotch or some such, I bring as big a tractor as I think I will need, and as much chain or cable as it will take, and just pull it down. 
Be cautious, no tree is worth getting hurt for, MJFlores has the right idea above………...


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

Well, made a small bit of progress. I used the come-along to pull the base southward about 4-5 inches. Problem now is that the base is starting to snowplow into the dirt so i'm not sure how much more I can move it that. Plus, I damn near uprooted a cherry tree that I was using as the anchor!

Also used the come-along to pull northward (direction I want it to go). Several of the smaller braches released but there is still one larger branch that is hung up on the oak branches. At this poing, I think I need to do away with the rope and go straight cable. I think the rope has enough give in it so it's stretching when I put tension on it with the come-along - this is causing me to run out of cable in the come-along before I can pull it far enough to fall. 

I don't think I feel comfortable enough to go at it with a saw at this point so I'm just going to keep going at it with the come-along. I think if I go with all cable, and no rope, I can pull it far enough for it to release where I want it to go.

Thanks again for all the replies. I really appreciate the info!

Andy


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

MJFlores said:


> I would feel safe about making another felling cut three feet up from the base of the trunk now.  I deal with this sort of thing all the time as I said in my earlier post....most of my trees end up this way because it's so heavily wooded where I cut.  Juts take it slow, pick your direction and make the tree go.  Putting a rope and come along on and pulling tension before hand will help persuade it to go.  It wont stand up like that forever.  Many times I have a tree come down like that, and I end up cutting out 3 or 4 three foot sections before the tree is down.  I envy people who cut and drop their trees into an opening or field.  Hang ups stink but it's all part of cutting down trees, at least around here.  Good luck, and be safe.



Thanks MJ. LIke I said, I just dont' feel comfortable enough taking the saw to it at this point.

You mentioned taking 3 foot sections out at a time. Can you explain that a little more? How are you getting 3-4 foot sections from the bottom of the tree?

I have a healthy respect for these trees so I'm being really cautious with each move I take. You're right, hang ups suck but that's part of the gig. I'm have a similar setup to you with a pretty heavily wooded lot so this won't be the last one I have to deal with. If it wasn't so close to where I proces wood, I would just leave it and let mother nature take care of it.

Thanks again for the advice!


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

jaoneill said:


> Elm has to be the trickiest breed to fell, bar none. Most of them seem to be almost perfectly balanced.
> I have the advantage of a large woodlot, half mile off any road, and no nearby neighbors that might wander through, so usually when I get a "hanger" I walk away and revisit it next time I happen into that section of the woods; unless it is seriously hung the wind will often take care of it with no efort on my part. If after a while it hasn't come down, or is hung in a crotch or some such, I bring as big a tractor as I think I will need, and as much chain or cable as it will take, and just pull it down.
> Be cautious, no tree is worth getting hurt for, MJFlores has the right idea above………...



No doubt! I couldn't believe it when it just sat down after making my final cut. Never had that happen before. Unfortunately, most of what I want to take down is Elm. I have some nice young oaks that I am trying to release and, as luck would have it, they are all surrounded by Elm! Of course, the fun has only begun with felling Elm. It's a bear to split as well!

I wish I had a tractor as I think I could pull it down with that, though there isn't a ton of space to move around in there. Like I said, I think if I just keep going at with the come-along, she'll come done eventually!


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## Nelson (Nov 2, 2014)

maple1 said:


> I would not cut that again. Its already free at the bottom & stuck at the top. Pull the bottom away from the lean - you'll be out from under it to start with & moving further away from the fall zone as you go.



I agree. I'm going to keep alternating between the bottom and top, with the come-along and I think that will do the trick eventually.


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## maple1 (Nov 3, 2014)

Might try getting the end of a wide board under it, for it to ride up on & slide on, if it's digging into the gound too bad.


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## mustash29 (Nov 3, 2014)

I like Maple1's idea.

Dig the ground away a bit, enough to make a dirt ramp.  Put a wide plank like a 2x12 down.  Mount a step or backstop on the plank first, so the tree stump has something to push against instead of just sliding off.  Winch away.


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## EncoreInMass (Nov 3, 2014)

You need one of these for those pesky high branches at this point...


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## Bspring (Nov 3, 2014)

Come along is the best method that you have. If it gets to a point that you can't make any more progress place the rope for the come along about 4 to 5 feet up the trunk pulling the opposite direction that you want to tree to fall. Make your wedge cut facing the direction you want to tree to fall about a foot down from the come along rope. I would tie a safety line at a 90 degree angle to the come along going the opposite direction from the side you are cutting on to keep the trunk from swinging out toward you. You can tie a loop in your safety rope several feet from the tree you are going to, go around the trunk and back through the loop then pull tight and tie off. That will give you a bit more tension but not too much to pull the trunk too far that direction.


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## jaoneill (Nov 3, 2014)

Nelson said:


> I think if I just keep going at with the come-along, she'll come done eventually!



That she will  

I end up cutting a fair amount of elm mostly because it's standing dry. Around here they generally don't get more than 20"-24" before they die; many of them only reach a 12" diameter. The bark falls off after about year 2 and by year 5 (after they have breathed their last) the smaller branches are gone and usually most of the tree, other than maybe 8'-10' at the base is down to 12%-15% moisture. It is well seasoned, high octane, standing firewood that splits like ash and I hate to see it go to waste. Rounds of limb wood from these babies sound like bowling pins when thrown in the wood trailer. 

Live elm trees on the other hand are stringy, nasty buggers to split, take just short of forever to dry out and, even after two years seasoning time don't seem to have much in the way of BTU's.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Nov 3, 2014)

MJFlores said:


> Many times I have a tree come down like that, and I end up cutting out 3 or 4 three foot sections before the tree is down.



I had quite a few of them this year where i had to cut the whole damn tree down in 3 ft chunks. Cut it almost all the way thru, kick it and RUN only to see it drop 3 feet and remain perfectly  upright. Very stressful way to cut down a tree but it does get the adrenaline pumping.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 3, 2014)

Please take this question as coming from a guitar player, but could you send a monkey up the tree it's hung on to cut that branch?  All the knowledge I have is for me to farm this job out every time.


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## SawdustSA (Nov 4, 2014)

I saw a youtube video where they used a 4x4 to create an upward angle while pulling with the winch.  This might help to keep the end of the tree from digging into the ground while pulling.  I cannot find a photo of the setup, but here is the link to the video.

PS:  I would just set the winch up on the other end to keep away from the moving stump in this case,
.


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## mustash29 (Nov 4, 2014)

Pretty slick idea there.


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## EncoreInMass (Nov 4, 2014)

Love that he isn't even wearing eye protection...or long pants...


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## Nelson (Nov 5, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> Please take this question as coming from a guitar player, but could you send a monkey up the tree it's hung on to cut that branch?  All the knowledge I have is for me to farm this job out every time.



If I only had a monkey...


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## Nelson (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for all the additional suggestions. 

I've got the tree damn near at 45 degree angle but it's still hung up at the top. The top branches are busted up where they meet the main truck but there is just enough there to keep it hanging on. At this point, I have it tied off, with the come-along and tension. However, the come-along is pretty much toast at this point (spindle bolt is bent and the lower catch flipped over and is no longer catching the teeth). So...... I'm leaving it where it is for a few days and hoping that gravity will eventually take it's course and it will come down. I have it tied off in the direction I want it to fall so I'm no longer worried about it falling in the wrong direction.

If gravity doesn't do the job, I'm going to try another come-along and see if I can pull it from a slightly different direction. Either that, or I'm going to try and pull the base out some more. We are getting some rain tonight so I'm hoping that maybe that will loosen up the soil enough that it will give some. It's so damn close to coming down!


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## maple1 (Nov 6, 2014)

You're pulling the top down? That's the problem with doing that - it can pull the branches further into what it's leaning on and tangle it up worse. Hopfully it didn't tangle them up so bad that pulling from the bottom won't work now either. But with the tree leaning more, it should make pulling the bottom a bit easier, at least as far as the digging in part goes. I would still try to get something under it for it to slide on - hopefully it's not tied in a knot up there.


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## gzecc (Nov 6, 2014)

CYA and rope off the area with orange tape. Last thing you need are the  neighbor kids getting crushed.


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## BIGDADDY (Nov 6, 2014)

Nelson said:


>




Did you notch that tree before you tried dropping it? I couldn't see on the pictures any notch.


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## BoiledOver (Nov 6, 2014)

Nelson said:


> Thanks for all the additional suggestions.
> 
> 
> If gravity doesn't do the job, I'm going to try another come-along and see if I can pull it from a slightly different direction. Either that, or I'm going to try and pull the base out some more. We are getting some rain tonight so I'm hoping that maybe that will loosen up the soil enough that it will give some. It's so damn close to coming down!


One good swirling windy day might just do the rest for ya, good luck and be safe.


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## golfandwoodnut (Nov 6, 2014)

I am lucky enough to have a bobcat, I had several do that and would hook a chain to base, lift a couple of inches and pull it backwards.  Without such equipment you can only use a come-along or wait for the wind.  I would not get in there and cut it again.


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## maple1 (Nov 6, 2014)

If it's really at a 45° angle now, I would reconsider cutting it again. Much safer than if it were still straight up. But it might not help if the top is really hung up. After multiple re-cuts, you could end up with some big rounds and the rest of the tree being straight up again.

I would really do all I could to pull the bottom out away from the way it's leaning - but not stand right at the tree when doing that. The bottom could move away from the way it's leaning a bunch all at once if something lets go up top and the stop slides down rather than falls over.


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## D8Chumley (Nov 6, 2014)

golfandwoodnut said:


> I am lucky enough to have a bobcat, I had several do that and would hook a chain to base, lift a couple of inches and pull it backwards.  Without such equipment you can only use a come-along or wait for the wind.  I would not get in there and cut it again.


That would be the way to go if you had the resources. I had one hang up once but I was able to cable it at the bottom and pull it with my truck. Be careful, hoping to see a happy ending to your dilemma soon. Be safe!


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## mecreature (Nov 6, 2014)

Is it down yet. 
That tree sitting on that stump creeps me out. 
I don't know how it didn't slide off.


Once that thing falls take a pic of the stump.


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## BigCountryNY (Nov 6, 2014)

BIGDADDY said:


> Did you notch that tree before you tried dropping it? I couldn't see on the pictures any notch.



That's what I was thinking too.  I don't see a hinge either unless it's that piece sticking up on the edge of the stump.


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## Nelson (Nov 6, 2014)

BigCountryNY said:


> That's what I was thinking too.  I don't see a hinge either unless it's that piece sticking up on the edge of the stump.



Yeah, I did a traditional notch (it's on the other side of the tree in that pic). Hard to see it in this pic. I took this pic after I had been tugging on it (with a looong rope) which shimmied it to the point you see in that pic. The tree is now down on the ground. I took a chance and took a couple of swings at it with a sledge hammer (and ran like hell on the last hit). It fell of the stump and stood straight up and down.

With the help of a come-along, I now have it pulled at damn near a 45 degree angle in the direction I want it to come down. However, it is still hung up at the top by one or two bigger branches. Those bracnhes have started to split due to the pulling with the come-along but not enough for it to break free.


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## Nelson (Nov 6, 2014)

BigCountryNY said:


> That's what I was thinking too.  I don't see a hinge either unless it's that piece sticking up on the edge of the stump.



Also,the hinge (or what's left of it) is that piece you sticking up.


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## Nelson (Nov 6, 2014)

mecreature said:


> Is it down yet.
> That tree sitting on that stump creeps me out.
> I don't know how it didn't slide off.
> 
> ...



Nope, still standing. Leaning is probably a more accurate standment. I may have overstated the 45 degree angle. Probably more like 60 degrees but I'm no longer concerned with what direction it's ultimately going to fall. Quesiton now is whether I let mother nature take its course or try to persuade it by pulling on the bottom. Need to get another come-along to make that happen. Definitely wishing I had a bigger tractor to come at it with. My neighbor has one and I might see if he wants to come over and take a stab at it. Problem is that there isn't a lot of room to maneuver...


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## BIGDADDY (Nov 7, 2014)

When ever you burn that wood you will remember where it came from for sure. Not like you had it dumped on your property without know it's history. 
Stay safe. Thanks for sharing.


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## kennyp2339 (Nov 7, 2014)

I had a similar tree issue like yours about 5 years ago, I compounded the issue by trying to drop another tree into it figuring it would knock it loose, It knocked the first tree down, but the second tree got hung up in the same spot, (both trees were full mature 75' black birch W/ 20 -24" bases) my dad and I stood there scratching our heads trying to figure out the next step when the old timer neighbor stopped by. He saw the problem and said let me teach you something , he grabbed the saw and made a cut on the leaner about 5' in the air an angle, then he went a couple feet lower and made another angle cut in the opposite way, he then made a plunge cut on his bottom cut but left 2 strips of uncut wood on both sides, he said grab an axe and hit here, which I did, it caused the cuts to collapse inward and the log to drop down, the rest of the tree followed. I asked him how he knew that and his reply was " I've been burning wood for 70 years, we always took our own tree's down, and we don't waste them" after the tree was down he went back home, probably laughing at us under his breath, he was in and out in less than 5 min


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## Nelson (Nov 7, 2014)

kennyp2339 said:


> I had a similar tree issue like yours about 5 years ago, I compounded the issue by trying to drop another tree into it figuring it would knock it loose, It knocked the first tree down, but the second tree got hung up in the same spot, (both trees were full mature 75' black birch W/ 20 -24" bases) my dad and I stood there scratching our heads trying to figure out the next step when the old timer neighbor stopped by. He saw the problem and said let me teach you something , he grabbed the saw and made a cut on the leaner about 5' in the air an angle, then he went a couple feet lower and made another angle cut in the opposite way, he then made a plunge cut on his bottom cut but left 2 strips of uncut wood on both sides, he said grab an axe and hit here, which I did, it caused the cuts to collapse inward and the log to drop down, the rest of the tree followed. I asked him how he knew that and his reply was " I've been burning wood for 70 years, we always took our own tree's down, and we don't waste them" after the tree was down he went back home, probably laughing at us under his breath, he was in and out in less than 5 min



This sounds very interesting but i'm having a hard time visualizing what he did. Any chance you could draw it up and post it?


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## Cluttermagnet (Nov 8, 2014)

Yes, very interesting, but more detail, please. Having a hard time visualizing what you said.


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## mustash29 (Nov 8, 2014)




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## Cluttermagnet (Nov 9, 2014)

Great video, mustach29! Impressive technique. A little too advanced for me, I wouldn't try this one
personally. My saws are a little wimpy anyway- I'm not sure whether they would plunge cut like
that or not. Looks like he has a pretty good Stihl. Most wood I process is already on the ground.

I get that  this is a pinch-proof method. Neat! Boy, it sure comes down fast when it gives way.
Good that it's predictable how the tree base will behave after it separates. Looks like that tree
remained standing, however- so isn't it still about as much of a problem after the cut? I'm confused
on that point. I think he said he climbed it and limbed it up high before the trunk cut? I thought it might
lay down on the ground after that cut.

Oh, OK- that was actually from a different tree felling. Confusing that he threw that one in to
show 'step away and watch it separate'. I had to watch it several times to get it all sorted out.


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## SawdustSA (Nov 11, 2014)

That was a bit scary towards the end!


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## Nelson (Dec 13, 2014)

Well, I am happy to report that the mighty Elm has finally fallen! After seeing the video of the guy cutting limbs with rope attached to some sort of blade, I set out to figure out how he was doing. I started by trying it with a bow saw blade, attached to two pieces of rope. That didn't work - the blade isn't flexible enough on the saw tooth plane to be useful. That and the rope kept breaking on me. However, the exercise gave me hope that this was the right approach. I just needed to find the right kind of blade. All along I was thinking I needed a chainsaw chain that I could attach to rope. As I was screwing around on Amazon last weekend,  I just happend to stumble across a pocket chain saw and thought to myself, that has to be what he was using in that video. Low and behold, that was the ticket. I was able to attach the pocket chainsaw handles to two pieces of rope. I got it up in the "v" of the bigger branches that were hung up and went to town. Once I got it started, it was only a matter of minutes before I was able to saw through 3/4's of the limb. At that point, the chain ended up getting pinched in the cut. Not to be denied, I started rocking the tree and within a few minutes, she finally broke free and crumbled to the ground. A few pics.






Here is the pocket chain saw I used.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026OOS60/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely a tool that I will be using from now on when dealing with trees that have the potential for getting hung up in larger trees.


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## Matt93eg (Dec 15, 2014)

SawdustSA said:


> That was a bit scary towards the end!


 
No doubt, I knew it was about to go but when it did I still jumped.

Nelson, Glad to hear you got that Elm on the ground safely.  Good luck processing that Elm though.  I cut an Elm down in the backyard to give a Penn Oak more room and I still probably got 15 rounds that I have not split.  Stuff sucks to split by hand.


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## Nelson (Dec 15, 2014)

Matt93eg said:


> No doubt, I knew it was about to go but when it did I still jumped.
> 
> Nelson, Glad to hear you got that Elm on the ground safely.  Good luck processing that Elm though.  I cut an Elm down in the backyard to give a Penn Oak more room and I still probably got 15 rounds that I have not split.  Stuff sucks to split by hand.



Thanks and No doubt RE: the elm. Not looking forward to it. I have found that if  I cut the split down the middle, about half way, with the 
the saw it splits a lot better.


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## Matt93eg (Dec 16, 2014)

Nelson said:


> Thanks and No doubt RE: the elm. Not looking forward to it. I have found that if  I cut the split down the middle, about half way, with the
> the saw it splits a lot better.


 
Maybe I need to give that a try.  I cut it down this past summer, Processed all of it except for the 15 or so rounds I just couldn't split.  Maybe I shouldn't say "couldn't" split, didn't have the will power to split.  Went up there last week, the ends were all dried out and cracked up.  I swung the 8lb maul down on a block a couple times, I thought I hit concrete that's how hard it was.  I just walked off. I guess I am just spoiled, I typically split Red Oak and for the most part it splits like butter except for the twisted knotted pieces, I still put the effort in on those cause I know how good of firewood it is when it seasons out.  Of course the dry Elm I have burned seemed to give off quite a bit of heat, just don't like the ashes it leaves behind.

My neighbor had a pretty big branch break out of an Elm in his backyard 2 summers ago.  Asked if I wanted it and I said "YES"  At that time I didn't even know what kind of tree it was, I got most all that split but it was tough work.  I told my Dad about it and he said that was an Elm and laughed.

I still got another big Elm in the backyard that needs to come down though.  I guess worse comes to worse I can load the blocks up in my truck and take them to my Uncles and use the Hydro splitter.


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## Nelson (Dec 16, 2014)

Matt93eg said:


> I still got another big Elm in the backyard that needs to come down though.  I guess worse comes to worse I can load the blocks up in my truck and take them to my Uncles and use the Hydro splitter.



Elm had forced me to consider a hydro splitter. That said, as someone else had mentioned, standing dead elm is like splitting a whole different kind of wood. But it has to be REALLY dead.


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## D8Chumley (Dec 16, 2014)

Matt93eg couldn't you bring your uncles splitter to the wood? Or maybe it's a 3 pt on a tractor, that might make more sense


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## whatsgnu (Dec 16, 2014)

Boy, am I ever glad I've"NEVER" hung a tree up when felling!   Having a good size tractor and a long cable has been my good friend in those instances many times. It's always amazed me how a couple of small branches can hold up an entire tree and just make the job that much more difficult. Glad you got that one on the ground safely.


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## Matt93eg (Dec 16, 2014)

D8Chumley said:


> Matt93eg couldn't you bring your uncles splitter to the wood? Or maybe it's a 3 pt on a tractor, that might make more sense


 
I wish, but yes its a 3 point that goes on the tractor.  Right now I am not to worried about the Elm rounds that haven't been split, I have a Red Oak I am working on processing and then still have 3 other standing dead Red Oaks to take care of plus one pretty big White Oak I need to process so I got my work cut out, trying to get 3 years ahead on firewood.  However I will need to take care of that elm at some point, I don't like the idea of wasting any wood that could be firewood, heat is heat.


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## sportbikerider78 (Dec 16, 2014)

I hang up trees all the time because my property has a canopy.  Almost all trees get hung up when you selectively take them in a confined space.  

This thread introduced me to the rope saw.  I had no idea such a thing existed!  I'm getting one for some small/med sized branches that are out of ladder reach above my deck.


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## Nelson (Dec 18, 2014)

whatsgnu said:


> Boy, am I ever glad I've"NEVER" hung a tree up when felling!   Having a good size tractor and a long cable has been my good friend in those instances many times. It's always amazed me how a couple of small branches can hold up an entire tree and just make the job that much more difficult. Glad you got that one on the ground safely.



So true. I couldn't believe how it was still standing. Granted, nature would have taken its course sooner or later but I needed/wanted that thing down. All in all, I'm happy that I found a new "tool" for the wood felling toolbox. I already have plans to use the pocket saw to help take down another Elm that is growing up into a larger Oak.


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