# free standing wood stove vs. insert



## mummra1 (Aug 9, 2014)

hello Gurus,
   I have a large masonry fireplace in the basement, and the house is just under 3k sq ft.  The chimney goes up along the side of the house.  I want to purchase a wood stove, but don't know if I should go with an insert or free standing stove in the fireplace (similar to this setup).  

We have natural gas so the wood stove would really be intended as more of a supplement to keep the basement warmer in the winter.   A bonus would be if some of the heat can get upstairs.  I would love to hear advice/experience on the following issues:

I've heard a free standing puts out better radiant heat.   However, placing it in the existing fireplace, I'm concerned the bricks would suck away the heat.  Is this a valid concern and how does one mitigate (heat shield, etc)?
Any advice on installation?  I'm assuming I would need a chimney liner would be needed.
Lowe's website seems to have some decent models with good reviews.  Drolet, etc.  Should I stay away from 'big-box' or do they carry models that are worth a look?

many thanks for your comments/thoughts.


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## Excavator (Aug 9, 2014)

I have my old Vermont Castings Encore sitting on hearth and a stainless liner all the way up flue.
I have great radiant heat and my 2 story 2800 square foot house is warm. I made a block off plate to stop heat from escaping up chimney. The block off plate and insulated liner is most important for best heat.












I chipped out some fire brick and cut out damper frame to allow 8 inch liner to fit straight down with clean out T at bottom


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## begreen (Aug 9, 2014)

There are advantages to both options. An insert works with the current hearth and has a neat finished appearance. A freestanding stove usually requires a hearth extension and can look more added on. That said, you are correct. Usually the more the stove (or insert) projects out of the fireplace and into the room, the better is naturally transfers the heat into the room. This can be important for folks that have frequent power outages and can't always rely on a blower to convect heat into the room. Both are suitable solutions. It depends on your home and the aesthetic that one is trying to achieve. Sometimes the WAF (wife appeal factor) here can be a deal breaker.

Yes you will want a full liner for safety, performance and to match the output of the stove with its flue requirement.

Drolet is the value line of SBI, a major Canadian wood stove manufacturer. They make good stoves. Besides brand there are functional aspects you should consider. For example, does the insert have a bypass or not? If the chimney is shorter this can be a nice feature for smokeless starts and refills. It can also make it easier when cleaning the chimney liner. But this is not a showstopper if other features are more attractive to you. One thing that I find important is the firebox dimension. My preference is for a squarish firebox. Many insert fireboxes are shallow, favoring width over depth. I prefer both dimensions to be close to equal because it allows me to load the wood in either direction, N/S or E/W.


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## fossil (Aug 9, 2014)

Picture of the intended location would certainly help a lot.  Rick


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## Grisu (Aug 9, 2014)

When someone is on a budget and looks for a solid, no-frills woodheater many lines offered in the big-box stores will do. However, I am not aware of any of those that can be rear-vented and therefore easily installed as a hearth-mounted stove (like the one in your picture). One important consideration for a freestanding stove installation will be the height of the fireplace opening. Stoves than can be rear-vented are usually more expensive. Possible options are:
Jotul F600 and F55
Quadrafire Isle Royale
Hearthstone Manchester
Woodstock Progress Hybrid and Ideal Steel

The selection will look different when you want to go for an insert. Large inserts include: Lopi Freedom or Large Flush Hybrid Insert, Pacific Energy Summit, Osburn 2400, Quadrafire 5100i, Regency I3100, BlazeKing Princess, Enviro 1700 line.

Those are all larger stoves/inserts suitable to heat most if not all of a 3000 sqft house. For more supplemental heat you can also look at the medium size stoves of those manufacturers. Be aware that for a basement install it can be difficult to predict how well the heat will rise up the stairs and warm up the rest of the house. In addition, an unfinished basement will take up a lot of heat by itself.   

For either stove or insert, make sure to burn only dry, seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20 %. Although often advertised as "seasoned", it is rare that you can buy firewood that fulfills that requirement. If you don't have any wood already split and stacked sitting in your yard you may want to consider buying some green wood to dry for next year's winter and to use compressed wood logs (e. g. Ecobricks, Biobricks) the coming one.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 9, 2014)

Inserts get an undeserved bad rap. I heated this place 100% with a large pre-EPA insert with crap wet wood for 21 years. I now have a large free standing stove in the fireplace, yours isn't tall enough for it, but can't imagine how much more heat I would have had if that had been a modern EPA insert and burning the dry wood I have now.

Put an insert into the thing. You will love it.


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## Ricky8443 (Aug 9, 2014)

begreen nailed it. i know its sounds cliche, but free standing vs insert is just one of many things you will need to explore if you plan to become a wood burner. 

i have an existing small fireplace, so for me it made sense to get the most efficient and powerful stove insert to fill it (bk princess insert), which will heat my 2000 sf home for over 20 hours on most nights.

Basement insulation, in your case, is a must. I added layer of brick on my fireplace insert  so it my insert sticks out by an add'll amount (width of one course of brick) whick you can do, but if i were heating 3k from basement, even if it is supplemental, id go free standing. When all is said and done, there is some amount of investment you'll be fronting, so you might as well get your bang for your buck. And if you're posting in here, its probably already running through your blood so its great that you're approaching carefully. keep researching and good luck.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 9, 2014)

Ricky8443 said:


> which will heat my 2000 sf home for over 20 hours on most nights.



That is a long night. 

Fact is you ain't gonna heat any 3,000 sq. ft. house with one stove. I crank the crap out of a large one to heat 2,500 sq. ft. just a few miles from the OP with the stove on the first floor on the really cold nights.

And have tried the basement heating thing every Fall for 20 years and it has never worked and went back up stairs after 12 hours and fired the one up there.

I am a real slow learner.


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## mummra1 (Aug 10, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for all of your thoughtful and informative replies.  I should have mentioned that my hearth is raised off the basement floor by about 18in.  If I needed to extend it, can I achieve this with some kind of two-dimensional hearth pad or would I have to add an extra layer of brick all the way up as well?


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## Highbeam (Aug 10, 2014)

The biggest drawback for me with an insert is the need for that noisy fan rattling, humming, and blowing crap all over. I tore out my entire masonry fireplace and chimney and sold the nice lopi insert to install a free stander and have never regretted it. I love the silence. If you like what they call "white noise" maybe consider pellet stoves?


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## Nick Mystic (Aug 10, 2014)

We can't answer your question on the hearth extension requirements without knowing a lot more information. For starters, how big is the existing hearth?, what is the footprint of the stove you are planning on buying?. is the new stove going to be front load or side load?  If your present hearth is large enough for your new stove to sit on like in Excavator's photo then you might be able to just put down hearth pad or hearth rug in front of the hearth if all you need is ember protection. With such a high hearth this may be the case. Here is a  photo of my set up:




As for your original question regarding an insert vs. a freestanding stove you should factor in that you aren't likely to find a new insert priced as low as the big box stoves you alluded to in your post. Putting the stove/insert down in the basement is likely to limit how much heating you're likely to accomplish upstairs, so if you are just looking to heat a rec room the insert should do the job.


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## WiscWoody (Aug 12, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> That is a long night.



Fact is you ain't gonna heat any 3,000 sq. ft. house with one stove.
I heat my 3200 sq ft home in very cold NW Wisconsin with one Drolet 2.2 CU FT stove. It went below zero up here 68 times last winter and it heated the place on those nights too until early mornings when I let the furnace take over if I didn't get up to restock the stove. But I built the home myself and I payed special attention to air leaks and very good insulation.


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## WiscWoody (Aug 12, 2014)

Im a little rusty on the quote edits I guess.... But I type too slow to redo it...


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## begreen (Aug 12, 2014)

fixed,


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## Bigg_Redd (Aug 12, 2014)

mummra1 said:


> hello Gurus,
> I have a large masonry fireplace in the basement, and the house is just under 3k sq ft.  The chimney goes up along the side of the house.  I want to purchase a wood stove, but don't know if I should go with an insert or free standing stove in the fireplace (similar to this setup).
> 
> We have natural gas so the wood stove would really be intended as more of a supplement to keep the basement warmer in the winter.   A bonus would be if some of the heat can get upstairs.  I would love to hear advice/experience on the following issues:
> ...




Free standing stove = winning gold medals - USA! USA! USA!

Insert = massive compromise


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## Bmore (Aug 12, 2014)

Nick Mystic said:


> We can't answer your question on the hearth extension requirements without knowing a lot more information. For starters, how big is the existing hearth?, what is the footprint of the stove you are planning on buying?. is the new stove going to be front load or side load?  If your present hearth is large enough for your new stove to sit on like in Excavator's photo then you might be able to just put down hearth pad or hearth rug in front of the hearth if all you need is ember protection. With such a high hearth this may be the case. Here is a  photo of my set up:
> 
> View attachment 136368
> 
> ...



I am in the same decision process as Mummra. What stove are you running N Mystic? I only have 28" of height space and may need a rear flue connect? Any ideas on something large 3 cubic box and less than 28" tall. Was going to use a buck 91 insert but wife doesn't like the look of the set up...


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## begreen (Aug 12, 2014)

Nick has a Jotul F600CB. The low lintel is a challenge. Bigger stoves usually have higher outlets. I think the Woodstock stove's flue outlets are fairly low for their size. 27" with short legs?


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## Nick Mystic (Aug 12, 2014)

The stove in my avatar is a Jotul F600 in the brown porcelain enamel finish. Unfortunately, it requires between 31 - 32" clearance to get inside a fireplace opening. Even if you shortened the legs on this stove you couldn't get it down to a 28" fit.


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## Grisu (Aug 12, 2014)

Bmore said:


> I am in the same decision process as Mummra. What stove are you running N Mystic? I only have 28" of height space and may need a rear flue connect? Any ideas on something large 3 cubic box and less than 28" tall. Was going to use a buck 91 insert but wife doesn't like the look of the set up...



Woodstock Progress Hybrid and Ideal Steel, both with short leg kit, will be the only ones that fit. The Hearthstone Manchester would be next with 28.75". Maybe an insert is then the way to go? Is the fireplace on an interior or exterior wall?


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## Bmore (Aug 12, 2014)

Grisu, 
Mine is on the outside wall. Insert would fit, but wife doesn't want a surround covering up the brick surround. May just do  the large insert and not use a surround?  Rather use something that will heat without the need for power... I will check out the Progress and ideal.  Thanks


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## begreen (Aug 12, 2014)

I think you will find Woodstock recommending the Progress sit outside of the fireplace opening due to controls in the rear. That is going to require a major hearth extension.  Is that possible? Personally I would be leaning toward an insert for this setup. An insert could be installed without the surround if desired or perhaps find an insert that has a surround that is a real good looker like the Hampton 300i or the Enviro Venice?

How wide is the fireplace opening? What is the dimension between the two mantel legs?


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## prezes13 (Aug 12, 2014)

I think that no matter what you put in you might have a problem with clearance.  Trim work looks nice but is combustble material.


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## Grisu (Aug 12, 2014)

prezes13 said:


> I think that no matter what you put in you might have a problem with clearance.  Trim work looks nice but is combustble material.



That was also my first thought when looking at the picture. I would take off the whole glass door assembly and then do some proper measurements. Height, width and depth of fireplace. Depth of hearth. Distance of fireplace to mantel. Flue size would also not be a bad idea. That will help tremendously in figuring out what is possible.


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## Bmore (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks guys, 
Sorry Mummra to keep replying on your thread... My fire box is 28.75"h x 35"w x 22"d.  Inside of trim is 36"h x 49.5" wide. Hearth extends 18.5" into room with all tile flooring. Some inserts do look nice but I want to heat  both upper floors at 2,400' if possible... Thanks


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## begreen (Aug 12, 2014)

bmore, your climate is milder. How well an insert or stove will heat the house depends on how open the stove room is to the rest of the house and its location. You should start your own thread. Your needs, location, stove position and goals are different from the OP.


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## WiscWoody (Aug 23, 2014)

Hmm... Do you have any kids maybe?


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