# Replacing Pellet stove with wood stove



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

Currently we have a 1996 Breckwell pelletstove P24L that is ragged out. Firebox is burnt out and the fan rattles. It needs to go. We had a power outage and had no heat. Primary source is forced air HVAC. Heatpump with Electric strip heat. 

I grew up with a timberline woodstove with a blower in the basement. It did an amazing job of heating our 1960s vintage house during Maryland winters. It also was nice to have the top surface to boil water/make soup etc...

I'm looking for recomendations for a wood burning solution. My fireplace opening is 30" high x 48" wide. The house is 2800sq feet, open concept floorplan, built in '65, little bit drafty as compared to modern homes but we're only looking to offset the heatpump on days below freezing (10 or less here in Oregon) and keep the house nice and toasty. 


So far been looking at Lopi, vermont castings, pacific energy, jotul, hearthstone and englander.


----------



## brad wilton (Dec 27, 2015)

Welcome complete,i would stay away from vc bad rep,i'll let begreen and the others from the wet coast chime in,they know climate better.


----------



## Firewood Daddy (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm definitely a Jotul fan here. The f500 or 600 would heat your home nicely.


----------



## tcassavaugh (Dec 27, 2015)

so.....are you looking for a fireplace insert or a free standing to drop on the hearth and occupy part of the fireplace opening? I too am a fan of Jotul. I've had a small (F602) and a medium (F3CB) stove that were both bullet proof. I have no experience with the larger ones but if they follow suit, they will probably be just as good. I've had a couple of Vermont Castings and their predecessors and while the early stoves were pretty good i hear the later models lack in quality control. i prefer free standing to insert but thats personal choice. i also like a blower to help move the air around and work great in this southern maryland area. good luck in your search. there are a lot of good stoves out there.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

Hey thanks for the warm welcome fellas! To address some of your questions...

I would really prefer a free standing woodstove hanging out of the fireplace vs an insert. 

I really know nothing much about stoves, or how they install so I'm here reading and learning. I really like the Lopi endeavor because of the two cooking/warming surfaces but I doubt it will fit in my current space. 

Seems some stoves have a rear outlet vs the top outlet and others do not. Seems like I would need a rear outlet to fit in the existing fireplace. But again I'm unsure how it all works. 

If I uploaded some photos of the current setup, would that help?


----------



## CentralVAWoodHeat (Dec 27, 2015)

I'll also throw my vote in for Jotul as I heat our entire home exclusively with the F400.  However, make sure to get the right sized stove for your house.  That is the key.  It sounds like you would need the Oslo to heat that home, and possibly an additional small heat source in the far reaches of the house.

We have a 2,200 square foot open concept ranch house and the F400 was recommended for our layout/size.  My family has always heated with wood in some form or another but the Jotul was my first EPA stove.  While the F400 was rated for less square footage, I trusted our dealer as he said they were far more efficient and, if we went with the Oslo, it would make the central room too hot.  Mistake.  I should have stuck with my wisdom of over thirty years of wood burning and gone with the biggest stove we could accommodate.  To heat effectively during typical January/February I have to close off our guest bedroom, reducing the heated square footage to about 2,000 square feet and put a space heater in our master bedroom closet to keep our pipes from freezing.  I also have to run the stove at near it's max temp continuously to keep the nucleus of the house in the seventies and the edges in the high sixties.

One more thing to be aware of is part replacement cost and maintenance.  That is the downside to my current stove.  If anything needs to be replaced, the cost is extreme.  As I've said before on other threads, I really like my Jotul as a modern EPA stove but not that much more than all the old smoke stacks we used to run.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 27, 2015)

Just about any of those brands you mention are good . . . with one possible exception . . . which has been mentioned.

I am a Jotul fan boy . . . but you may want to look at Pacific Energy . . . I know some folks in your area of the country (yes, BeGreen . . . I'm thinking of you) really like the PE line (truth be told a PE was in my list of finalists as well.)

If you're looking for a good, but inexpensive stove, the Englander line is highly regarded for both the quality and excellent customer service.


----------



## CentralVAWoodHeat (Dec 27, 2015)

firefighterjake said:


> Just about any of those brands you mention are good . . . with one possible exception . . . which has been mentioned.
> 
> I am a Jotul fan boy . . . but you may want to look at Pacific Energy . . . I know some folks in your area of the country (yes, BeGreen . . . I'm thinking of you) really like the PE line (truth be told a PE was in my list of finalists as well.)
> 
> If you're looking for a good, but inexpensive stove, the Englander line is highly regarded for both the quality and excellent customer service.


firefighterjake made me think of another thing.  Customer service is key and Jotul has virtually no direct to consumer customer service.  Yes, I have the direct phone number but have never been able to talk to anyone.  I've always had to leave messages and have never been called back.  That's why I always turn to hearth.com for questions and solutions.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 27, 2015)

Can you post any pics of the hearth where it will go? Coming off a pellet stove with thermostatic control you may not be ready or want the peak and valley heating characteristics of a stove using tubes for secondary burning and might really appreciate a cat stove's ability to run low and slow in your climate.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

jatoxico said:


> Can you post any pics of the hearth where it will go? Coming off a pellet stove with thermostatic control you may not be ready or want the peak and valley heating characteristics of a stove using tubes for secondary burning and might really appreciate a cat stove's ability to run low and slow in your climate.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

Okay! That was my attempt at uploading photos! I hope that worked. I made a drawing with relevant dimensions. The small door to the left is a wood storage with a steel passthru door to the outside. Currently the steel passthru door is non-opp. Needs repair. 

Thanks for the recommendation on the cat-stove...been starting to read up on those.  Seems like a better way to go after all. I just hope its not too complicated for the wife to run and wouldnt want it to clog up. We have wet wood lots of times (its oregon after all). 

I'm open to doing tile work on the floor, but thats all of the modifications I want to make. Opening the fireplace up is more than I want to get into. 

Was thinking of trying those pressed enegy logs... But thats a different topic. 

My goal for this house long term is to reduce dependence on the 'grid'. Live sustainably. And be okay if SHTF.  Also forgot to mention we have natural gas service to the house also if that makes any difference.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 27, 2015)

I agree you would need a rear vented free standing stove or an insert that extends onto the hearth. In both cases it's recommended to use a full steel liner to the top of the existing chimney. Most common is a 6" round liner. Do you know what the dimensions and construction of your chimney is? Ex. is it an interior or exterior chimney, is there a clay liner and what size, what's the total estimated length etc.?


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

Since we last spoke, I yarded out the pellet stove and measured external chimney at 18-19 feet high. 

I pushed the two tubes from the pellet stove up and closed the flue.  The flue will have to be cut out in order to fit a 6" pipe through. I want to get up top and look down to find out the internal construction. 

It's rusty behind the stove, must be leaking. The 3-4" exhuast tube and fan had 2" of dirt/mud inside. 

Theres a draft hole made into the floor of the fireplace with a slide out clean out on the outside.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 27, 2015)

Progress! Ideally you would install an insulated liner and a block-off plate (see below) to separate the old smoke shelf and flue from the living space for maximum heat retention and performance. Most new EPA stoves seem to require about 15' of chimney so you're good there.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

jatoxico said:


> Progress! Ideally you would install an insulated liner and a block-off plate (see below) to separate the old smoke shelf and flue from the living space for maximum heat retention and performance. Most new EPA stoves seem to require about 15' of chimney so you're good there.
> 
> View attachment 170220


Okay awesome. Need to get creative to get around this flue/smokeshelf or remove it in such a way that it can be reinstalled later. I hate hacking up original parts of the house. 

Thanks for the heads up. I will keep my current block off plate. It can probably be reused or at least used as a template for a new one.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 27, 2015)

Complete said:


> Need to get creative to get around this flue/smokeshelf or remove it in such a way that it can be reinstalled later.


That may not doable . They have top dampers you could add to give that capability back.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

jatoxico said:


> That may not doable . They have top dampers you could add to give that capability back.


Okay yeah I saw a graphic about that... It was a more efficent design supposedly anyway.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

Hey, if nothing else, you guys inspired me towards progress today! And for that, I thank you!

Before...


After...


----------



## brad wilton (Dec 27, 2015)

In my  humble opinion go with something with a jotul type style will match house nicely.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

brad wilton said:


> In my  humble opinion go with something with a jotul type style will match house nicely.



I agree! My wife really likes the ornate double doors on the Jotul. 

I like the heathstone one and the woodstock one that looks pretty similar and sorta fancy lookin. 

Need to lookup to see which are cataylst type


----------



## begreen (Dec 27, 2015)

If you just looking for a supplement on rare cold days and are trying to save a bit of money then the Englander 13NC would do the job. It's 28.5 in tall. For more horsepower maybe consider the Woodstock Ideal Steel?


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 27, 2015)

My vote will not get much support but I am still a fan of Vermont castings. They are great looking heaters and I really haven't had any problems outside of regular maintenance on both of mine.


----------



## Complete (Dec 27, 2015)

begreen said:


> If you just looking for a supplement on rare cold days and are trying to save a bit of money then the Englander 13NC would do the job. It's 28.5 in tall. For more horsepower maybe consider the Woodstock Ideal Steel?



Ooooh Daang! The woodstock Ideal Steel looks really nice!  

With the cost of the stove pipe and labor involved with the install, it seems like spending a bit more for the 'right' stove without comprimising much is the way to go. 

The englander 13nc looks like top outlet only. Seems like that would make the install a pain to get the exhaust pipe lined up and hooked up.


----------



## begreen (Dec 27, 2015)

You would be coming down the chimney with a flex liner. The stove would need to be placed so that the liner more or less aligned with the flue vent hole. There's a bit of wiggle room in this style install. Look at BrotherBart's 30NC install for an example.


----------



## Complete (Dec 28, 2015)

begreen said:


> You would be coming down the chimney with a flex liner. The stove would need to be placed so that the liner more or less aligned with the flue vent hole. There's a bit of wiggle room in this style install. Look at BrotherBart's 30NC install for an example.



Thanks BeGreen. Looks like 20' of flex is $3-600. If i could get a deal on a 30-nch for around $700, i might be able to get this whole thing done for around a grand with a help from a buddy or two?

Was looking for distance from center of flue to front door and back of unit dimensions, so I could mockup with cardboard to see how it looks.


----------



## weatherguy (Dec 28, 2015)

Not sure if the ideal steel will fit, my fireplace is about the same size and I went with the progress hybrid, all the jotuls should fit. Then again if you want to build out your hearth any rear venter will fit. The buck stoves would fit though not rear vent but their stoves can be used as freestanding or insert.
I think your wise to get a freestander, I had an insert and switched and it makes a big difference.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm still trying to figure out if that door is really, really small . . . or if it's just the angle taken with the camera.


----------



## Heftiger (Dec 28, 2015)

firefighterjake said:


> I'm still trying to figure out if that door is really, really small . . . or if it's just the angle taken with the camera.


It's gotta be tiny. Look how the mantle shadow measures up to the door. Maybe he has umpaloompas to tend to his stove.


----------



## edge-of-the-woods (Dec 28, 2015)

Complete said:


> My goal for this house long term is to reduce dependence on the 'grid'. Live sustainably. And be okay if SHTF.  Also forgot to mention we have natural gas service to the house also if that makes any difference.



Dude.  Dude.  I just zoomed in on your profile pic.  Are you in an earthship?!?!


----------



## Complete (Dec 28, 2015)

edge-of-the-woods said:


> Dude.  Dude.  I just zoomed in on your profile pic.  Are you in an earthship?!?!



YES dude! That pic is from their HQ by Taos, NM. Good Eye! I left feeling like the rest of the world has been building homes wrong this entire time. We stayed in one for a couple days. Would totally live in one again if possible.


----------



## Complete (Dec 28, 2015)

Heftiger said:


> It's gotta be tiny. Look how the mantle shadow measures up to the door. Maybe he has umpaloompas to tend to his stove.



Umpaloompas haha. I wish. Need to get better at the flute. 

Some say it's the door to Narnia. And yeah its mini...same height as the mantle. ~4.5' tall.

It's a bricked in box on the side of the chimney outside. It's for dry wood storage. Theres a metal pass thru opening on the outside of the house that can be seen in the external chimney pic. Problem is,  the hinges are busted.


----------



## Complete (Dec 29, 2015)

Guys, 

Do they make an oval/rectangle shaped pipe peice that I might be able to work around the existing damper/smokeshelf?


----------



## begreen (Dec 29, 2015)

Some ovalize the liner to get past the damper but most often the damper is notched or removed to make clear passage for the liner.


----------



## Complete (Dec 29, 2015)

begreen said:


> Some ovalize the liner to get past the damper but most often the damper is notched or removed to make clear passage for the liner.



What do you say about simplying trying out the fireplace/ get a decent grate?

I have andirons and fireplace tools already. Sure would be nice to burn a little wood this year.


----------



## jatoxico (Dec 29, 2015)

Complete said:


> Do they make an oval/rectangle shaped pipe peice that I might be able to work around the existing damper/smokeshelf?



If you try to keep the old damper in place you run the risk of hurting the performance of any unit you end up with. Also makes it tough to clean. But if your up to the idea that you may have to re-do the install if it doesn't work then go ahead and try it.



Complete said:


> What do you say about simplying trying out the fireplace/ get a decent grate?
> 
> I have andirons and fireplace tools already. Sure would be nice to burn a little wood this year.



If it's just for fun and ambiance go for it. If you are running another source of heat like a furnace you may find it's working harder since the fireplace will pull tons of air from the house and send it up the chimney. That warmed air you heated with the furnace will then be replaced with cold being pulled into the house. If you can isolate the room the fireplace is in and maybe open a window in the fireplace room you might be able to minimize that.

Back in the day when the fireplace was the only heat source it made sense, people still froze their @#$%&* off, but it made sense.


----------



## redhat (Dec 29, 2015)

RandyBoBandy said:


> My vote will not get much support but I am still a fan of Vermont castings. They are great looking heaters and I really haven't had any problems outside of regular maintenance on both of mine.



I find the anti - Vermont Castings sentiment by some of the folks on this site amusing.  Most are basing their positions on discontinued models that haven't been offered in years.  They won't bother to come up to speed with the models that  are currently offered by VC so they can give relevant information in threads like this.  Guess it is just easier to carry the narrative forward than come from an informed postion.


----------



## Complete (Dec 30, 2015)

redhat said:


> I find the anti - Vermont Castings sentiment by some of the folks on this site amusing.  Most are basing their positions on discontinued models that haven't been offered in years.  They won't bother to come up to speed with the models that  are currently offered by VC so they can give relevant information in threads like this.  Guess it is just easier to carry the narrative forward than come from an informed postion.



I have a VC bbq grill, that we bought at costco. It was priced much lower than the typical VC grills. It's quality is also much lower than the older VC grills. Did VC go through a cost cutting phase? A buyout? sometime in the mid 2000's?


----------



## Complete (Dec 30, 2015)

Complete said:


> I have a VC bbq grill, that we bought at costco. It was priced much lower than the typical VC grills. It's quality is also much lower than the older VC grills. Did VC go through a cost cutting phase? A buyout? sometime in the mid 2000's?



I was correct in my speculation. "CFM eventually went bankrupt and was taken over in 2005 by the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan, which three years later unloaded Vermont Castings and Majestic’s assets for $42.5 million to The Riverside Co., a New York private equity firm. Riverside combined the two companies with Kentucky-based Monessen Hearth Systems."

This article is an interesting read. http://www.vnews.com/home/13877114-95/stoking-the-fires

Seems since 2013 VC is under new ownership. VC has a very rocky past. For my money, and I'm sure others share this sentiment, I'm not going to take a gamble with my investment in a stove maker with this history no matter how good they might be.


----------



## Complete (Dec 30, 2015)

jatoxico said:


> If you try to keep the old damper in place you run the risk of hurting the performance of any unit you end up with. Also makes it tough to clean. But if your up to the idea that you may have to re-do the install if it doesn't work then go ahead and try it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right on. If we get a nice enough day, I still need to yard out the old pellet stove liner tubing. Then access the condition of the existing chimney and put a cap on top to keep the water out.  I'm hoping most of the air the fire drafts will come from the ash dump hole that is vented to the outside of the house. As long as I keep it clean, I see this as the path of least resistance and with any luck we can burn a decent fire once in a while and I can get a good deal on a stove this spring when the demand is low.


----------



## Threerun (Jan 7, 2016)

There is a flexible steel adapter pipe that is oval designed to snake up the damper opening and up until it passes about 1-2' into the chimney liner. You have to remove the damper door (usually not hard). It also came with a blocking baffle that you trimmed to fit the opening, and two threaded rods with hooked ends to snug it up. Pretty slick deal. I installed two of them in the past (in previous homes with chimneys). In both installs I hooked up my Consolidated Dutchwest Federal XL wood stoves.

If your existing chimney liner is in good shape there is no need to run SS pipe all the way to the top. The only caveat is that when you clean your chimney- you must remove the assembly to make sure you vacuum the smoke shelf. Ask me how I know this..

I failed to do that and cleaned the chimney a few times. The creosote that fell accumulated on the smoke shelf. I over fired the stove one morning and *woof*.. Chimney fire. Not much of a big deal- not a whole lot of creosote but it did make my butt pucker for about 15 minutes or so, lol.

I can't find the specific kit I used but this is basically what the components are-
This-  http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-22420.html
Plus this- http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-21420.html

It also had the stainless steel blocking plate + some rockwool to seal it off from above. Also the flexible liner had two stainless steel pipes affixed to the outside that were adjustable. Those rested on the smoke shelf to secure the oval pipe. I was able to easily snake the oval flex pipe through my steel damper frame and install it. Knowing what I know now if I had to do it over again I could buy these components and fab it up. Not hard to do.

If your chimney liner is in good shape- this is a very economical way to plumb the appliance. No need to re-line a good chimney with a full SS liner.


----------



## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

redhat said:


> I find the anti - Vermont Castings sentiment by some of the folks on this site amusing. Most are basing their positions on discontinued models that haven't been offered in years. They won't bother to come up to speed with the models that are currently offered by VC so they can give relevant information in threads like this. Guess it is just easier to carry the narrative forward than come from an informed postion.


Too many of us have either been burnt ourselves or had to many customers burnt by their terrible designs through the years.  It is going to take allot more than a new design that seems ok to start off to gain our trust again.  If they hold up well for 8 or 10 years then i may change my attitude towards the company.  But at this point they have a long way to regain the trust of many of us.  And i have worked on some of the new stuff it is better than the old stuff but not that great for the price.


----------



## begreen (Jan 23, 2016)

As pointed out in other threads we have a few more recent 2N1 owners report that they have had multiple issues within the past 4 yrs.. Personally I would love to see VC turn around. They are beautifully made and looking stoves. But I think it's going to take an internal redesign to get this stove reliable over a 10-20 yr. period. Hopefully with new ownership this is in the works.


----------



## Complete (Jan 23, 2016)

Okay guys, 

I figured I'd check in with an update. It stopped raining for two days and got up into the 50's with sunshine. I figured the roof was about as dry as it was ever going to get this winter, and it seemed like as good a time as ever to remove the leftover piping from the pellet stove, inspect and install a cap to keep the rain and critters out.

There is not a clay liner inside. The opening of the chimney is 12.5 x 16.5 on the outer dimension. It looks like cement/concrete and it is approx 1 3/16" thick. So subtract 2 3/8" from both aforementioned dimensions for the inside measurements of the chimney. 

It looks like it goes down like that for about 2-3 feet and then turns into the same white colored 'bricks' that the rest of the chimney is made of on the inside, but I could be wrong about that. 

It is clean in appearance. No visible, at least to me anyway, creosote buildup. 
The old tubes and cap from the pellet stove came up easily with a small pry bar to break free the silicone seal.

I went with a 13x18 chimney top that was in stock at homedepot to get the job done today. Eventually I'd like to replace with a stainless steel one, but I needed to get something on there today and it was under $40.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-13-in-x-18-in-Fixed-Chimney-Cap-CC1318/100072631?keyword=13x18+chimney+cap\

Here are pictures of the internals and the chimney top with the cap on.

With this type of construction am I required to run a SS liner all the way up to the top when I go with a wood stove?


----------



## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

Complete said:


> With this type of construction am I required to run a SS liner all the way up to the top when I go with a wood stove?


Yes it doesnt matter what the construction is you want a full liner.


----------



## Complete (Jan 23, 2016)

bholler said:


> Yes it doesnt matter what the construction is you want a full liner.



Roger that. Full liner it is. 

Was it common to use concrete flue's in the 60s? Does this have an advantages/disadvantages vs a clay lined flue?


----------



## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

Complete said:


> Do I have a cast in place liner?


No you have a clay liner


----------



## Complete (Jan 23, 2016)

bholler said:


> No you have a clay liner



Take a closer look at the pictures. It is most certainly not clay. It's made of concrete.


----------



## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

Complete said:


> Take a closer look at the pictures. It is most certainly not clay. It's made of concrete.


Looks like clay to me.  I Could be wrong but it isnt cast in place there are seams.   Regardless you need a liner that is way to big to work with a wood stove


----------



## bholler (Jan 23, 2016)

I have never seen anything that looks even remotely like that that is not clay.  I guess it could be something regional but it does look like you can see the red of the clay down inside the flue


----------



## redhat (Jan 23, 2016)

begreen said:


> As pointed out in other threads we have a few more recent 2N1 owners report that they have had multiple issues within the past 4 yrs.. Personally I would love to see VC turn around. They are beautifully made and looking stoves. But I think it's going to take an internal redesign to get this stove reliable over a 10-20 yr. period. Hopefully with new ownership this is in the works.



I clearly pointed out in the thread you are referring to that the VC stove with the problem was a discontinued non-cat Everburn model, not a 2N1.  If you have links to other recent threads about problems with 2N1 stoves please pass them along as I clearly have missed them. 

I'm not going to try and defend the VC's Everburn non-cat combustion system, it was admittedly a bad design that did a lot to harm VC's reputation.    The Everburn models had a relatively short run between 2005 and 2009.  The 2N1's have been out over 5 years now and I am just not seeing the issues that plagued the Everburn models right out of the gates.  I think VC has a good, reliable design with the 2N1 combustion system,  but I understand the wait and see approach taken by some folks based on their experiences with past designs.


----------



## Complete (Jan 23, 2016)

bholler said:


> I have never seen anything that looks even remotely like that that is not clay.  I guess it could be something regional but it does look like you can see the red of the clay down inside the flue



Ha! Strange. It's certainly concrete, I can see tiny rocks in the mix. The construction of the blocks look very similar to concrete masonry units (cinderblocks) but made for a flue. I googled concrete chimney/flue liners and found a few photos of similar products but most were links to other countries.  The house next door was built in the 1930's by the same builders (for the same original owners. this was their retirement home) and it has two clay liners poking out the top of chimney.  There were a lot of custom (read funky) things about the way this house was built. Going to ask others from Oregon if concrete chimney liners are common to this area.


----------



## Complete (Jan 23, 2016)

Bit I found on the net about concrete flues:

*Concrete *
A concrete flue is sometimes used on more expensive new build houses as it has the longest life expectancy of all flues, but it is more expensive than clay. It also has a high insulation value which reduces creosote and tar build-up. 

Concrete flues are very robust and can be cleaned fairly vigorously with either a wire or polypropylene brush, without causing damage.


----------



## begreen (Jan 24, 2016)

redhat said:


> I clearly pointed out in the thread you are referring to that the VC stove with the problem was a discontinued non-cat Everburn model, not a 2N1. If you have links to other recent threads about problems with 2N1 stoves please pass them along as I clearly have missed them.



https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/upgrading-encore-2n1-for-a-blaze-king.131743/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/problem-with-vc-encore-cat-noncat.134769/


----------



## bholler (Jan 24, 2016)

Complete said:


> *Concrete *
> A concrete flue is sometimes used on more expensive new build houses as it has the longest life expectancy of all flues, but it is more expensive than clay. It also has a high insulation value which reduces creosote and tar build-up.
> 
> Concrete flues are very robust and can be cleaned fairly vigorously with either a wire or polypropylene brush, without causing damage.


Cool i never heard of them.  But again for a wood stove it doesn't matter you need a liner.


----------



## Complete (Jan 24, 2016)

begreen said:


> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/upgrading-encore-2n1-for-a-blaze-king.131743/
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/problem-with-vc-encore-cat-noncat.134769/


VC named a stove 2N1?  Do you call the chimney you hook up to it the swine flue?  
Gives a whole new meaning to H2N1 Swine Flue...We should avoid them like the plague!
Someone stop me. I could go on all night.


----------



## pelletpiglet (Jan 26, 2016)

tcassavaugh said:


> so.....are you looking for a fireplace insert or a free standing to drop on the hearth and occupy part of the fireplace opening? I too am a fan of Jotul. I've had a small (F602) and a medium (F3CB) stove that were both bullet proof. I have no experience with the larger ones but if they follow suit, they will probably be just as good. I've had a couple of Vermont Castings and their predecessors and while the early stoves were pretty good i hear the later models lack in quality control. i prefer free standing to insert but thats personal choice. i also like a blower to help move the air around and work great in this southern maryland area. good luck in your search. there are a lot of good stoves out there.


I keep hearing the term cat and non cat could someone please tell me what that means?


----------



## bholler (Jan 26, 2016)

pelletpiglet said:


> I keep hearing the term cat and non cat could someone please tell me what that means?


A cat stove has a catalytic combuster in it a non cat does not.


----------



## jetsam (Jan 26, 2016)

pelletpiglet said:


> I keep hearing the term cat and non cat could someone please tell me what that means?



Start here. There's a hojillion threads on the merits of cats vs tubes. 

There is also a nice photo of a rare front/bottom double cat stove here.


----------



## pelletpiglet (Jan 26, 2016)

jetsam said:


> Start here. There's a hojillion threads on the merits of cats vs tubes.
> 
> There is also a nice photo of a rare front/bottom double cat stove here.


Thanks I want to know what kind of stoves are out there.I have an itty bity one compared to the Jotul but then again, I live in a moderate climate but the dry heat helps me with my bone pain and I just love wood stoves now.My house is much nicer smelling without that old house mildew smell!


----------



## firefighterjake (Jan 27, 2016)

pelletpiglet said:


> I keep hearing the term cat and non cat could someone please tell me what that means?



Cat and non-cat (aka dog) . . .  . . . I only post this since other folks have given you the true, helpful answer.


----------



## TedyOH (Jan 27, 2016)

I'd like to know what this creepy thing is on the mantel, I can picture it raising it's head slowly, reminds me of the doll under the bed from Poltergeist....i hated that movie when I was a kid....


----------

