# Tip - low sulfur diesel vs. Kero



## saichele (Feb 17, 2007)

Locally, road diesel is 80c to $1 less than K1 Kero.  So, being the cheapskate I am, I figured I'd try it in a KeroSun radiant heater and two reddy heaters.  To my surprise, the shop smelled less like a submarine or truck stop using the diesel than the Kero.  So I did some digging - the sulfur spec for ultra low sulfur diesel is half the spec for #1 Kero - 15ppm in ULSD vs 40ppm in Kero.  K2 is all the way up to 300.  Regular diesel (what's been ont he road the last few years) is <500, and heating oil is >500.  

So, making a short story longer, if you use a kerosene heater, you can probably sub in ULS Diesel if it's to your advantage on price.  If you can find ULSD - off road, so much the better.

Now a question - anyone tried biodiesel for heating applications?

Steve


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## begreen (Feb 17, 2007)

Locally here we have a choice for delivery, fuel oil or biodiesel. Same price.


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## saichele (Feb 17, 2007)

Looking more for the space heater applications, but that helps a bit with ignition characteristics.  

I'm curious whether biodiesel stinks when you burn it, and whether it'll ignite in either a spark or surface ignition application if it's really cold (like 10-20F).

Steve


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## reaperman (Feb 17, 2007)

Strait number 1 diesel is what should be used in place of kerosene, not blended or strait #2 diesel.  Strait #1 off road, or high sulfer, diesel should be available at petro delivery establishments.  Locally, they have pumps, right at the place of business.  I believe in my area off road is around .65 cents cheaper/gallon.  Altthough, #1 is always a bit more overall than #2 diesel.


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## berlin (Feb 17, 2007)

#1 diesel IS kerosene. #2 diesel, #2 distilate oil, #2 fuel oil is all the same thing and is now all ULS- ultra low sulfur fuel. less than 15 ppm sulfur. off road or not doesn't matter it's all ULS, including heating oil.


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## restorer (Feb 18, 2007)

Here in Salt Lake #1 Diesel is $2.85/gal., #2 is $2.65, Kero is $2.25. #1 requires a state permit, BIG BUCKS. For commercial and industrial/agricultural use. Too expensive if you use under 2,500 gals per year. Never use #2 in a wick type kero heater. The wax in the fuel will clog the wick. You can not "cut" the #2 and make it usable. Kero is K1 grade. Very clean and safe to use. Unlike D#2 the next kin is Jet fuel. Sells here at $3+++ per gallon. If you like to maintain your heater rather than heat your shop, go with the few cents savings on fuel and spend it on wicks and cleaning and igniters, and etc... By the way. Local rumor has the Off road dye color added to D#1 or 2 isn't really healthy in a closed room???? Maybe an urban legend.


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## berlin (Feb 18, 2007)

nonsense about the dye has been around for ever, none of that crap is true. period. #1 distilate when labeled as #1 diesel simply means (usually) road tax has been included, when labled as kero it generally has not. there are a lot of rumors around the internet and elswhere as to what kero is, what diesel is, what fuel oil is etc. some of the variations you hear about were true years ago, perhaps even a few years ago depending on the rumor. i'm not going to dissect all the rumors and nonsense that go around about fuels etc. however what i've posted is accurate for the usa and for the present.


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## restorer (Feb 18, 2007)

Steve said:
			
		

> Looking more for the space heater applications, but that helps a bit with ignition characteristics.
> 
> I'm curious whether biodiesel stinks when you burn it, and whether it'll ignite in either a spark or surface ignition application if it's really cold (like 10-20F).
> 
> Steve




Stink, yes, usually like french fries. Burn in your Kero space heater, NO. The fuel is too "dense" and will not wick. The waxes will clog the fuel delivery and you will end up with a non-usable stove. Has something to do with particle  size. Stick with the lighter fuel.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 20, 2007)

I don't think it's all ULSD yet.  Maybe it depends on the area of the country.


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## berlin (Feb 20, 2007)

It's all ULSD at the pump, anywhere in the country, by law it HAS to be. if you have a diesel tank in your barn, or an oil tank in your house that you haven't filled in the last 4 or 5 months, then possibly that is still LSD, but anything at the pump will be ULSD.


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## Highbeam (Feb 20, 2007)

I would love to find some reasonably cheap fuel to burn in my kero convection heater. The only K-1 that I've found at fuel depot in bulk is dyed red and 4.5$ per gallon. If I buy it by the 5 gallon jug at any of the big box stores it is more than 6$ per gallon. It is cheaper to heat with electricity. 

I have 50 gallons of 4 month old high sulfur off road diesel in a barrel for my tractor but I think that would stink in my heater. The ULSD off road is very new here in the NW, not all pumps have it. It must be a regional thing. 

Why oh why is kerosene so dang expensive? Is #1 kero dyed red the same as K1?


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## Andre B. (Feb 20, 2007)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Why oh why is kerosene so dang expensive? Is #1 kero dyed red the same as K1?



Jet fuel.
Been burning a lot of that up the last few years.


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## Highbeam (Feb 20, 2007)

Does one need a special connection or license to purchase jet fuel? Is this JetA? I can't say I've ever seen it available at the local depots. How does cost compare?


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## Andre B. (Feb 20, 2007)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Does one need a special connection or license to purchase jet fuel? Is this JetA? I can't say I've ever seen it available at the local depots. How does cost compare?



I meant that when you are refining oil you get to a point where you decide what you want the end product to be.  Turn the valve one way you get jet fuel turn the valve the other way you get kerosene.
When you make more jet fuel the price of kerosene goes up. And do to the war the military has been needing more jet fuel.


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## Highbeam (Feb 20, 2007)

I see now. I have heard JetA referred to as Kerosene so I thought maybe you burned that in your kero burner. It seems that the price per gallon of kero varies across the country by a large margin. I suppose that has a lot to do with supply in those areas since kero is not a mainstream fuel.


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## restorer (Feb 21, 2007)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> I see now. I have heard JetA referred to as Kerosene so I thought maybe you burned that in your kero burner. It seems that the price per gallon of kero varies across the country by a large margin. I suppose that has a lot to do with supply in those areas since kero is not a mainstream fuel.




Kero's a mainstream fuel, but the profit on JetA is outrageously higher. If a producer makes Kero, they are taking their JetA off line. The actual production and demand for Kero1 is so much smaller, many refiners don't bother. The big box store prices are not reasonable. That's why they have so many pallets full on sale. Bulk is the only way to buy, and buy from a fuel supplier or wholesaler. I use my own can, 5gals., and fill 8-10 to get the price break. Last I checked JetA is very regulated and tightly monitored, you can't just buy a few gallons. For 2.5 million people we have about three sources that are reasonable and 200 charging $7-8 gallons to warehouse their inventory (few sales). This year there has been no shortages, but I only made one buy early and an inquiry in January. Price was same as last year, $3.13 per gallon.


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