# electric water heating and utility costs



## semipro (Jan 31, 2010)

I came across this website and thought many here would appreciate it.  http://waterheatertimer.org/
The owner does a great job of showing you how to set up different types of water heater timers to save kWh and $.  There's also some good information on how water heaters work there. 

I recently discovered that our electricity supplier, AEP, offers "time of day" rates, lower on nights and weekends and higher during weekdays.  I'm planning to put our water heaters on timers and then do our clothes and dish washing at night.  Both machines offer delayed start so its easy.  Water should be hot for morning showers even if we shut the water heaters down at 7:00 AM.   The timers (one for each water heater) will actually be mounted on the wall near our HVAC thermostat so we can override or reprogram them easily.


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## drizler (Jan 31, 2010)

The only thing to watch out for with these deals is all the "requirements".   Most times you can manage ok but for myself it was the 80 gallon tank that turned me off at the time with NYSEG.  No point in heating 80 gallons of water if you  are only using 35.   Also, remember the hook in all this at least with NYSEG is low rates at night in exchange for much higher ones during the day time.     You have to watch out for that one too.


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## DBoon (Feb 1, 2010)

I have this setup and it works pretty well for me - I never run out of hot water.  Dishwasher has a timer to run overnight, and clothes washer is a water efficient front loader.  It's just my wife and I, so we can manage just fine on a 50-65 gallon tank.


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## semipro (Feb 1, 2010)

Driz said:
			
		

> The only thing to watch out for with these deals is all the "requirements".   Most times you can manage ok but for myself it was the 80 gallon tank that turned me off at the time with NYSEG.  No point in heating 80 gallons of water if you  are only using 35.   Also, remember the hook in all this at least with NYSEG is low rates at night in exchange for much higher ones during the day time.     You have to watch out for that one too.



The AEP plan I'm referring to in VA has no requirements.  You pay a higher rate for weekday use and lower rate for night time, weekend, and holiday use.   Thanks for the feedback.


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## jebatty (Feb 1, 2010)

We have 3 kwh rates for electricity, and each is separately metered: full service at $0.106, interrupt at $0.052 for space heating only, and night 11:00pm-7:00am at $0.042 for domestic hot water or any other timed use. Focusing on dhw, we use an 80 gal + a 50 gal hot water heater, more than enough for the wife and I but when the family is here, 12 of us, the 130 gal has provided all the hot water we have needed without ever running out. Our kwh for dhw is right abound 80-95/mo, or about $4.00/mo.

The kwh use and cost was twice that before I did four things: 1) raise the hot water heaters off the floor by 4" and insulate underneath; 2) wrap each hot water heater with 6" fiberglass insulation like that used in walls, sides and top; 3) install 12" heat traps on both the cold and hot water lines; and 4) wrapped all accessible hot water lines with foam insulation. I believe 1, 2 and 3 had the greatest impact, and 4 makes unnecessary running hot water again after only a few minutes of non-use, as the water stays hot in the pipes.

Even if you don't put in a timer or try to access "time of day" rates, insulate your hot water heater as mentioned. This alone, at a cost of about $15-25, may cut your hot water heater electric bill by 50%.

*CAUTION:* if a gas/oil hot water heater, you can't block access for air or exhaust without a serious risk of fire, injury or death.


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## drizler (Feb 1, 2010)

[quote author="jebatty" date="1265044677"]We have 3 kwh rates for electricity, and each is separately metered: full service at $0.106, interrupt at $0.052 for space heating only, and night 11:00pm-7:00am at $0.042 for domestic hot water or any other timed use. Focusing on dhw, we use an 80 gal + a 50 gal hot water heater, more than enough for the wife and I but when the family is here, 12 of us, the 130 gal has provided all the hot water we have needed without ever running out. Our kwh for dhw is right abound 80-95/mo, or about $4.00/mo.

The kwh use and cost was twice that before I did four things: 1) raise the hot water heaters off the floor by 4" and insulate underneath; 2) wrap each hot water heater with 6" fiberglass insulation like that used in walls, sides and top; 3) install 12" heat traps on both the cold and hot water lines; and 4) wrapped all accessible hot water lines with foam insulation. I believe 1, 2 and 3 had the greatest impact, and 4 makes unnecessary running hot water again after only a few minutes of non-use, as the water stays hot in the pipes.

Even if you don't put in a timer or try to access "time of day" rates, insulate your hot water heater as mentioned. This alone, at a cost of about $15-25, may cut your hot water heater electric bill by 50%.


Holy crap.   If I had rates like those I wouldn't even bother.    I would immediately set up a totally electric house, ditch this pellet stove to save space and be very very content.      Then I would wake up to find myself back in NY,  *&^%hole of the known universe and despair.


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## jebatty (Feb 1, 2010)

I think I always would bother. If I can spend $25 now to earn a return of $48 in one year, that's a 100% rate of return that keeps on going. I would do that anytime.


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## semipro (Feb 4, 2010)

jebatty said:
			
		

> We have 3 kwh rates for electricity, and each is separately metered: full service at $0.106, interrupt at $0.052 for space heating only, and night 11:00pm-7:00am at $0.042 for domestic hot water or any other timed use. Focusing on dhw, we use an 80 gal + a 50 gal hot water heater, more than enough for the wife and I but when the family is here, 12 of us, the 130 gal has provided all the hot water we have needed without ever running out. Our kwh for dhw is right abound 80-95/mo, or about $4.00/mo.
> 
> The kwh use and cost was twice that before I did four things: 1) raise the hot water heaters off the floor by 4" and insulate underneath; 2) wrap each hot water heater with 6" fiberglass insulation like that used in walls, sides and top; 3) install 12" heat traps on both the cold and hot water lines; and 4) wrapped all accessible hot water lines with foam insulation. I believe 1, 2 and 3 had the greatest impact, and 4 makes unnecessary running hot water again after only a few minutes of non-use, as the water stays hot in the pipes.
> 
> ...



I've considered doing some of these things with my water heaters but figured my return on investment would be better with the timers.  Most water heaters already come with some pretty nice closed cell foam insulation on them, even on the bottom.   I'm not sure I'll add much R value as a percentage with more inches of fiberglass and my heaters are in conditioned living space anyway.  Agreed, insulating the pipes is good if you can get to them but that lost heat goes into my house in the winter where I need it anyway.  It is a waste in the summer.  I need to research the heat traps.  I hadn't considered them.   

I think if more people knew how much they spend heating water only to send it to the sewer or septic they'd be more proactive with efficiency improvements.


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