# All night non-epa burn advice



## schlot (Jan 1, 2013)

Been burning for a year now. Been through the typical problems and learned from them.

Learned about making sure I have plenty of good dry wood this year.

Learned about getting air circulated towards the stove to heat the other rooms the best I can.

I've been burning 24/7 and during the day I'm pretty pleased with it.

But I still struggle with getting a good all night burn. I  wondering if I can even do so.

I have a cheap US Stove that only has the flue damper as air control. Because of our small one floor house and it's floor layout.  we put it in our bedroom. The main floor consists of bedroom, living room, bathroom, den, and kitchen.

Since it's in the bedroom, I really can't stuff the stove full with wood for a good hot fire before we go to bed, or we will melt.I've been using hard wood for the over night burns but I get maybe 3 hours out of it. Any ideas on burning technique? Would an EPA stove with better air control help? If an EPA stove helps would a non-cat be better since my stove temps on average will be lower?


----------



## Dune (Jan 1, 2013)

You need a better stove with air inlet control and you need to remove it from your bedroom, the last place it should be.


----------



## schlot (Jan 1, 2013)

Dune said:


> You need a better stove with air inlet control and you need to remove it from your bedroom, the last place it should be.


 
Unfortunately the bedroom is where it has to be.


----------



## oldspark (Jan 1, 2013)

What kind of control do you have for combustion air?


----------



## schlot (Jan 1, 2013)

oldspark said:


> What kind of control do you have for combustion air?


 
There isn't any that I can find.


----------



## oldspark (Jan 1, 2013)

How does it get its combustion air?


----------



## schlot (Jan 1, 2013)

From front facing vents, but I don't see any way of modulating how much air enters. It was cheap, solid but cheap.


----------



## oldspark (Jan 1, 2013)

What model is it?


----------



## Kenster (Jan 2, 2013)

schlot said:


> . _It was cheap, solid but cheap_.


 
Well, there's your problem. 

Not saying you have to drop a couple of thousand on a wood stove.  You could get a great VC Vigilant for a few hundred dollars and it will certainly do the trick, though there is no way you could operate it out of your bedroom, which is not  ideal for any application.  Our Vig heats our 4000 square foot house quite nicely.

To get a long overnight burn you have to have a lot of wood in there.   You can't have it both ways.  Long burn _and_ low heat, especially without air controls. 
You can have a small, hot fire but that will only last a short while.    You can have a long, low fire but without air controls it will be smoky and smoldering.

Post more info on your stove:  brand/model.  Maybe someone can offer some suggestions to help a little bit.


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

Kenster said:


> Well, there's your problem.
> 
> Not saying you have to drop a couple of thousand on a wood stove. You could get a great VC Vigilant for a few hundred dollars and it will certainly do the trick, though there is no way you could operate it out of your bedroom, which is not ideal for any application. Our Vig heats our 4000 square foot house quite nicely.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, I figured when I bought it there would be sacrifices because of the low cost. Glad I did it though, as I've learned I really enjoy the stove and will upgrade in a few years. I can't complain about the any smoke, or the heat it throws out, just the ability to keep it burning at night stinks.

I saw that it's a US Stove, but need to take a closer look for the model number.


----------



## Kenster (Jan 2, 2013)

When you say you can't keep it burning all night, do you mean that the fire goes out as in... won't stay lit?  Or that it burns down to ash quickly, needing frequent reloads?


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

Kenster said:


> When you say you can't keep it burning all night, do you mean that the fire goes out as in... won't stay lit? Or that it burns down to ash quickly, needing frequent reloads?


 
Frequent reloading, even if I arrange the logs so they burn slowly I get about three hours out of it. I shoot for a stove temp peak around 400 degrees, so the room doesn't get too warm. I know having it in the bedroom is a big limitation but I can't change that unfortunately.


----------



## thewoodlands (Jan 2, 2013)

schlot said:


> Yes, I figured when I bought it there would be sacrifices because of the low cost. Glad I did it though, as I've learned I really enjoy the stove and will upgrade in a few years. I can't complain about the any smoke, or the heat it throws out, just the ability to keep it burning at night stinks.
> 
> I saw that it's a US Stove, but need to take a closer look for the model number.


 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...kw={keyword}&gclid=CPfEvdOwyrQCFUQw4AodNC8AOQ

Is it like the one in the link?


----------



## lukem (Jan 2, 2013)

What kind of wood are you feeding that thing? Iowa is filthy with hedge, black locust, and oak. Those will be your best bet for a longer burn.

Also, your split size will have some influence too. If I'm going for a long burn I'll put in a couple big'uns fill the rest in with smaller splits.

Big splits of high quality firewood will go a long way to lengthening your burn times. Good luck.

BTW, I think a wood stove in a bedroom is a code violation.


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

lukem said:


> What kind of wood are you feeding that thing? Iowa is filthy with hedge, black locust, and oak. Those will be your best bet for a longer burn.
> 
> Also, your split size will have some influence too. If I'm going for a long burn I'll put in a couple big'uns fill the rest in with smaller splits.
> 
> ...


 
It's been a mix of ash, locust, elm and hickory. I definitely see the hickory and locust burning longer. I try  to use larger rounds  or splits for over night burns.

I checked on the code and it was ok in our neck of the woods.

I haven't been home to check on the stove yet, but I'm 90% sure this is the model.

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-..._a_7c3500006&gclid=COu-yoXLyrQCFZGPPAodHCAAXw


----------



## DexterDay (Jan 2, 2013)

If its the Stove in Zaps link, it has an air control on the front of the door. Almost all stoves, non EPA, have a control. Most are of the knob type.  

They were operated with an intake and a Flue damper. On modern stoves its just an intake (Primary, Secondary, nd Doghouse for most) with a flue damper here or there (tall, strong drafting chimneys ).


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 2, 2013)

The 35:1 EPA exempt stoves don't have air controls. The air input is fixed and the only control is the key damper built into the flue collar.


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> The 35:1 EPA exempt stoves don't have air controls. The air input is fixed and the only control is the key damper built into the flue collar.


 
Why wouldn't they give you some control of the air input, even if they are EPA exempt. Seems like it would help the operation so much.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 2, 2013)

schlot said:


> Why wouldn't they give you some control of the air input, even if they are EPA exempt. Seems like it would help the operation so much.


 
The 35:1 stoves were a jump through a loophole in the EPA regs back in 1988. There was a problem in that there are a lot of fireplaces out there in the country. So the regs were written where in a situation where there was at a minimum 35:1 air to fuel ratio the device was exempt. Or friends at Vogelzang ran right through the hole like a freight train and started making stoves with fixed air intakes great than a 35:1 ratio and certifying them as exempt from EPA rules just like fireplaces. So others got in the act too.


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> The 35:1 stoves were a jump through a loophole in the EPA regs back in 1988. There was a problem in that there are a lot of fireplaces out there in the country. So the regs were written where in a situation where there was at a minimum 35:1 air to fuel ratio the device was exempt. Or friends at Vogelzang ran right through the hole like a freight train and started making stoves with fixed air intakes great than a 35:1 ratio and certifying them as exempt from EPA rules just like fireplaces. So others got in the act too.


 
Sounds like a classic government SNAFU.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 2, 2013)

schlot said:


> Sounds like a classic government SNAFU.


 
Nah. It was with a lot of industry input. They had to have a way for everybody's fireplaces to stay legal. No matter what ya do somebody is gonna find a loophole. Most of the stove manufacturer's have dropped their 35:1 stoves and the coming updates to the regs should end them.

Pack the splits as tight as you can in that stove and keep some flame going to keep it from crapping up your chimney and that is about as good as it is gonna get. I can't imagine any stove that wouldn't sweat you out of a bedroom.


----------



## schlot (Jan 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Nah. It was with a lot of industry input. They had to have a way for everybody's fireplaces to stay legal. No matter what ya do somebody is gonna find a loophole. Most of the stove manufacturer's have dropped their 35:1 stoves and the coming updates to the regs should end them.
> 
> Pack the splits as tight as you can in that stove and keep some flame going to keep it from crapping up your chimney and that is about as good as it is gonna get. I can't imagine any stove that wouldn't sweat you out of a bedroom.


 
Thanks...figured my options were limited but I thought I'd get some input. Maybe someone has a "super secret" fix I haven't explored yet.


----------



## Jason Hall (Jan 2, 2013)

Can you post some pics of the vents? Maybe you could add something to them to cover them up a bit? Round un-split wood works the best for me.


----------



## TradEddie (Jan 2, 2013)

One big old nasty unsplittable crotch piece of oak that will barely fit in the door always worked overnight wonders on my old slammer.

TE


----------



## schlot (Jan 3, 2013)

TradEddie said:


> One big old nasty unsplittable crotch piece of oak that will barely fit in the door always worked overnight wonders on my old slammer.
> 
> TE


 
I found the model number, it is a USSC 2007B for anyone interested.


----------



## Dougp (Jan 3, 2013)

I would certainly throw a damper on the flue. It makes retaining heat MUCH easier for overnight burns. Right now I have an old clunker franklin style wood stove, trust me I'm working on an upgrade, and I can get it to burn for about 7 hours starting at 550 and finishing at just under 300. When you don't have a great stove air controls are that much more important. IMHO.


----------



## oldspark (Jan 3, 2013)

schlot said:


> I found the model number, it is a USSC 2007B for anyone interested.


 The one I found online was 759 dollars, I hope you did not pay that much as you could have done better for that money.


----------



## schlot (Jan 3, 2013)

oldspark said:


> The one I found online was 759 dollars, I hope you did not pay that much as you could have done better for that money.


No it was an end of year clearance at less than half of that.


----------



## schlot (Jan 3, 2013)

Dougp said:


> I would certainly throw a damper on the flue. It makes retaining heat MUCH easier for overnight burns. Right now I have an old clunker franklin style wood stove, trust me I'm working on an upgrade, and I can get it to burn for about 7 hours starting at 550 and finishing at just under 300. When you don't have a great stove air controls are that much more important. IMHO.


 
You bet, have one installed. I normally run it as closed as I can.


----------



## oldspark (Jan 5, 2013)

I looked in Menards yesterday and they had a cheap non EPA stove and it had combustion air control but it was a smaller stove.


----------



## schlot (Jan 11, 2013)

To update this, the air intake is just under the front lip of the stove. Individual vents approximately 1.5" long by 3/4" tall spaced about an 1" apart (from memory). I cam across a long magnet I had about 1" square and 24" long. It's meant for hanging tools from. I was thinking about cutting it down in increments to match the spaces in between the vents. That way I can us my vice grip (since they will be a tad warm at times) to put them on and take them off, covering the vents as I need?

Sound reasonable to you guys? I will take some pics later if that helps.


----------



## lukem (Jan 11, 2013)

schlot said:


> To update this, the air intake is just under the front lip of the stove. Individual vents approximately 1.5" long by 3/4" tall spaced about an 1" apart (from memory). I cam across a long magnet I had about 1" square and 24" long. It's meant for hanging tools from. I was thinking about cutting it down in increments to match the spaces in between the vents. That way I can us my vice grip (since they will be a tad warm at times) to put them on and take them off, covering the vents as I need?
> 
> Sound reasonable to you guys? I will take some pics later if that helps.


 
Rather than chunk up the magnet, could you just slide it over (left/right) to cover the desired number of slots to control the airflow?  If you drilled a hole you could mount a bolt (or something) on it to give you a handle which, if you made it long enough, would remain cool to touch for adjustment.  A bunch of little magnets and vice grips sounds clunky to me.


----------



## schlot (Jan 13, 2013)

I tried the magnet last night. It worked...a little too well. Covered too many vents up so the temps dropped too much through the night.But with some experimentation it should help. Think I will still cut the magnet, other wise it hangs over the one side of the stove and looks odd. My wife loves the stove but not sure she would go for something like that.

Will post some pics later.


----------



## Bret Chase (Jan 15, 2013)

I've got an old Better 'N Ben's two door stove... I put in a brand new double wall chimney... install Exceeds NFPA211..  Even using a 35 year old stove (with brand new door gaskets) I fill it when I go to bed,  damn near close the damper, close one of the two air valves....  I do this at around 10pm... when I get up at 6am.... The flue gas temp isn't great, but there is a nice bed of coals that instantly lights off the birch I toss in to get 'er going again.  I am currently using a ash/birch/maple mix (It's just where I am in the wood pile, deeper in the pile is about 90% locust).  I know with my stove... the size of the splits is everything when it comes to burning overnight.

My house was built in 1865...  basically no insulation (other that what I have installed).. When I wake up, it's a wonderful sleeping temp of 62-64F. I have no complaints


----------

