# Englander Burn Pot Build Up



## ispperformance (Nov 20, 2014)

I just picked up a used Englander 25-PDV for my shop, and am curious about the Burn Pot build up. After about 8hrs of burning the pot is filled and the fire is burning at the back of the pot near the auger. I have tried 3 different brands of pellets, all with the same results, so I am assuming there is something I need to adjust or clean to fix this. The stove was manufactured in 2003, and the three lower buttons are set to 6-4-1.


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## JDenyer236 (Nov 20, 2014)

To much fuel and or not enough air. Did you clean the stove completely before installing? I know some of the Englander stoves have some exhaust passages that are pretty hard to clean out. Someone that actually owns that stove will be along shortly that knows more than I.


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## ericofmaine (Nov 20, 2014)

Fairly common occurrence for me actually.  I just use a 3 inch putty knife and scoop it out into the ash pans twice a day.  I actually enjoy it, but then I'm weird like that.

Eric


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## acammer (Nov 20, 2014)

That's some pretty crazy build up.  Definitely need to add some air or take away some fuel.  What heat level are you set at when you're getting build-up like that?  Window glass all black and sooty?  Plenty of folks have that stove here and I'm sure can get you fixed up.  They're all gonna say it, so I'll get it out there first - step one is going to be a throughout cleaning - remove all the ash traps, make sure the exhaust vent is clean, and the intake as well.  Pellet stoves are just like an engine, gotta get the air in and out well to get good performance.


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## Lake Girl (Nov 20, 2014)

X2 on the cleaning internal smoke pathways.  In case you don't have it, here's a link to the manual:  http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/25-PDVEand25-PDV.pdf

You have a lot of fuel in that burn pot...  Once cleaning has been ruled out, then settings can be addressed.  What is the set-up on your venting?  What power level are you running at?


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## nick123 (Nov 20, 2014)

Scoop it out with a spatula or putty knife. I do mine 2 or 3 times a day depending..Definitely give it a good cleaning though...These stoves require a lil more...


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## acammer (Nov 20, 2014)

I can't believe you guys just scoop this stuff out instead of getting the stoves tuned up right.  It doesn't have to be that way, not at all.


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## nick123 (Nov 20, 2014)

Please explain your tuning. Maybe there is something to be learned.


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## shawnfire (Nov 20, 2014)

trying to tune mine,  but common occurrence  glass black and empty the burn pot often


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## Polar Bear (Nov 20, 2014)

I haven't touched my burn pot in 4 days... but I plan on it tonight


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 20, 2014)

mine does that too.. well not that bad, but i still scrape the bun pot out while its running.. its a englander thing lol give this thing a good cleaning...


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## acammer (Nov 20, 2014)

Nick - I'm no expert with the New-Englander stoves - yet.  I do have one in transit from AMFM, so in another week I might be a better resource.  But the concept is the same regardless of stuff.  You have essentially two basic variables for proper pellet stove combustion - air and fuel.  There are in turn several variables that impact each of those - control board settings, damper (if equipped), fuel, feed regulator (if equipped), *O*utside *A*ir *K*it, venting, etc.  The goal is to get the mixture of air and fuel just right, so that you get a clean, efficient burn.  Fuel being burned up at exactly the rate that it's fed.

There are a few signs of good combustion.  One is glass that stays relatively clean - you can expect it to get grey-brown after running for a few days, but if it's getting dark in just a few hours that's a good indicator something is off and you've got a rich mixture.  Another sign of proper combustion will be a burn pot that doesn't load up like seen in this thread.  The burn pot pictured in this thread is a sure sign of too much fuel and not enough air.  A well tuned stove will eventually develop some deposits in the burn pot, but if you're getting a big mess like that once or more a day it needs some tweaks.  I'm sure these stoves are also exhibiting a "lazy" flame - more like a campfire or fireplace and less like a blow-torch.  You can take that too extreme in the direction - you don't want a crazy blow torch, but you want a very active, sharp flame.  Don't overlook heat output, even on low you should be getting nice heat, and on high it should get uncomfortable to stand directly in front of a well tuned stove.

So, your tuning options on your stove are limited to a few things.  First and foremost, you've gotta make sure there are as little restrictions to breathing as possible.  Does the stove have a good air supply, preferably outside air?  Is the stove clean?  I mean really clean, every ash trap opened and thoroughly cleaned, lightly hammered to shake every last bit out.  Check out the leaf blower method, there are some examples on youtube and some write ups on here.  Once you've got a clean stove you can start tinkering with the control panel settings.  You're going to probably want to take away from low fuel, or add some low air.  Maybe an Englander expert can chime in to confirm the best way to get these adjusted.  Finally, I think you may have a feed regulator in your hopper - this is essentially a movable plate that can limit the flow of pellets to the auger.  As I understand it the low air and low fuel settings only impact the first few heat ranges on an Englander, to tune in the top end performance you may need to restrict the pellets down some if it's running rich at high power.

I'll be dialing mine in next week once it's installed - we'll see how it goes.  I know right now though that if I spend just a few minutes with my old Winrich Dynasty I can get that thing to run for 8hrs and still have clean glass and a nearly perfect burn pot.  Just takes a little tinkering - it's like tuning a carburetor in slow motion and a window into the cylinder head.


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## ispperformance (Nov 20, 2014)

Glad to see a lot of you guys chiming in to help. This is my first pellet stove, and I have it installed out in my workshop. As for the settings, the lower buttons are set to:

Low Fuel Feed - 6

Low Burn Air - 4

Air on Temp - 1

Intake Air is not connected to the outside. My garage is not insulated well, and a friend of mine said that it would be ok like that.

Flame doesn't seem bad, but the window does get black and sooty after about 8hrs.

I did not change those numbers, was like that when bought. Today I went thru the unit and cleaned what I could, didn't remove the burn pot or blower motor as it says to change the gaskets if I do. As for the leaf blower method, I am going to check for it now.

I looked inside the hopper today and there is no restrictor plate. It does seem as though the stove is feeding too much fuel all the time, and the build up happens at all setting, just quicker if I have it turned up.

Hopefully with everyones help I can get this thing tuned up, and learn a lot along the way.

Thanks guys!


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## CTguy9230 (Nov 20, 2014)

I empty mine twice a day.....maybe its not tuned right


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## apandori (Nov 20, 2014)

This a good flame? I get some buildup too. Not as bad as OP. I could use some guidance I guess though.


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 20, 2014)

Mine fills up the hole glass and keeps it somewhat clean.. I scrape the pot out every 8 hrs or so


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## JDenyer236 (Nov 20, 2014)

apandori said:


> This a good flame? I get some buildup too. Not as bad as OP. I could use some guidance I guess though. Of course I cant get the pic to rotate properly
> 
> View attachment 145098



Looks kinda lazy to me. This is what I like to see it look like.


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 20, 2014)

Showing off his Harman.... Lol


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## Dhosh (Nov 20, 2014)

Taking a good photo is tough with phones. LOL  I tried several times ... Your burn pot photo is very descriptive, though.
If your workshop is like mine, I would definitely  NOT want to pull combustion air from my shop.  I'd want it from the outside.  Pulling air from with an OAK has SO many benefits .. safety not being the least.  Yes .. it 'might' work OK without, but you'll have much better luck with consistency .. and not causing problems elsewhere in your house and appliances, running with an OAK.

I do the putty knife clean-out routine twice a day as well.  Cold stove ash cleanout (with removed baffles, etc), usually every 2-3 days.  Mine runs nice and clean for about 8 hours after a cleaning, then gets increasingly 'sooty' and burn pot starts to build up like yours.  I suspect I need to fiddle more with my 'low' settings also.  My '98 25-PVDP is on mode b (suggested by Mike at ESW), with the 'low' settings 6-4-1.  I experimented with the low settings on 3 other brands of pellets, but was running 'OK' on the Kirtlands, I'm burning now.  I think I might try 5-4-1 or 4-4-1.  One thing I've learned with lots of un-related troubleshooting .. when playing/experimenting with settings .. keep a chart or list, and change ONE thing at a time!  Let things run long enough to get a GOOD feeling of the results.  Some results (good OR bad) may not be noticeable for some time.  If mine burns OK for 8 hours, THEN starts building up .. then my setting change may not be noticeable for over 8 hours.


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## JDenyer236 (Nov 20, 2014)

Doesn't matter if its a Harman or an Englander. A good burn is a good burn and can be accomplished in any stove. And yeah I like to show off my Harman


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## Dhosh (Nov 20, 2014)

That's a nice looking stove.  I think you have an installation problem on your stove though .. or it's SO lazy, it's laying down on the job!

Flames look reasonably sharp to me.  Seems like, with that wide of a spread of flames, you should get some good heat!  Probably have a wide burn pot on yours?


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## JDenyer236 (Nov 20, 2014)

Yes the pot is fairly wide. Now if I can just get the flame to go up like it's supposed to


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 20, 2014)

Mine runs clean and kicks out some good heat keeping the house at a constant 70 I'm happy


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## JDenyer236 (Nov 20, 2014)

Chrisnow86 said:


> Mine runs clean and kicks out some good heat keeping the house at a constant 70 I'm happy



That's all that matters. Warm house and a happy owner.


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## shawnfire (Nov 20, 2014)

well check your hopper lid make sure it is tight, i checked mine and it was loose... mine gets dirty after about 9 hrs... so i will check again in the morning.  also got a urn pot gasket today so will replace that. next will be the door gasket. Then the hopper gasket  i did turn my lba up to 5  been running 5-4-1  now 5-5-1. see what she looks like in the morning


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## nick123 (Nov 20, 2014)

accamer..

Thanks for your info..I have implemented most of what you said. I keep a pretty rigorous cleaning schedule as well as utilize the leaf blower trick at least once a month. One thing that did stand out in your info was the pellet feed plate. Mine is wide open, I never considered closing that down a bit to see what would happen. My only concern with that is it would put out less heat. The bottom three settings only affect the burn/feed/air on levels 1-3. I general burn New Englands during the shoulder and Press to Logs during the cold of deep winter.  I may try closing down the feed plate a bit during my next full shutdown and post the results here. My stove really cranks out some heat and i'm so thankful for that.


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

O.K follow up glass was soot ash covered again this morning Lid it tight, I tighten the burn pot also about 4 turns, will replace the gasket tomorrow and do a full clean. I also went down stairs and checked to see what xtra blower I had  it is a exhaust blower (came with the stove when I bought it from a friend) Might replace that as well. Flame to be better after tightening the burn pot  will see when i get home how it looks. It was 7 dg out this morning and the house was 69 dg on lvl 3 so still not complaining..... Just want it to run to the best of it's ability......I hope all my trail and errors help others...


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)

Check your manuals, I have a Summers Heat that's made by Englander and an OAK is mandatory. I have the same build up in my pot but the house is hot. I think this is the design of the stove since the pellets don't drop into the pot like a lot of stoves. There doesn't seem to be a lot of tuning that is going to get rid of this, at least there isn't a thread on here with step by step directions. A few people are modifying their burn pot and one guy build a completely new one and put a damper in his intake.


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

saw that (new burn pots), thanks.... might be the the wear plate not allowing ash to drop and the more it fills up the worse the flame is..not sure but trying  LOL


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)

This is my build up after a day running soft wood pellets on 9 to bring the house up to temp


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm on my phone so I'm not sure if that uploaded right


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

nope it did not LOL


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)




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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

Wow on soft woods???? mine is more gray crust but about the same amount after 12 hrs on hardwood pellets


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

I do have a Oak also


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## CTmedic (Nov 21, 2014)

I am having the same issue that the OP is having. I have to scoop the burnpot about twice a day. Mine is a basement dweller and running at 4-9 with temps about 25 this morning and the entire house was about 65. My 3 lower setting are 6-4-1 (Factory). I have the restrictor plate in the hopper set at about 50% and using Green Supreme Hardwood Blend Pellets. Yes not the best but I am getting good heat. I have a 2" to 4" metal dryer vent hose connected for my OAK and 3" venting. Everything was cleaned and new gaskets for the door, burn pot and fans replaced when I bought the stove.

From what I am reading it seems the "Scoop x2 a day" seems pretty routine for this Stove I have the 25-PDV also. I have a 2nd modified wear plate however the original plate seems to work the best. However I still get that heavy buildup after about 9-10 hours but my glass stays pretty clean and my fire seems fine except when there is a huge buildup.


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## apandori (Nov 21, 2014)

How do you adjust those lower settings?


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## bogieb (Nov 21, 2014)

JDenyer236 said:


> Doesn't matter if its a Harman or an Englander. A good burn is a good burn and can be accomplished in any stove. And yeah I like to show off my Harman



Love the nice crisp flame of the Harman. Now if I could just get the St. Croix there (more cleaning to do this weekend on some of the hidden spots - the stove's, not mine - LOL)


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

apandori  if asking about the magical 3 buttons just push them one at a time and adjust each one I am at 5-5-1 my go 6-4-1 and see what happens... also confirmed I am in d mode the other day


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)

How do you check mode? 

Thanks for explaining how to do the lower buttons too shawnfire


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 21, 2014)

I will scoop the pot once a day too. How are you guys doing it? I shut the stove off, as soon as the flame dies, I scoop the pot out and then hit the start button. It only takes like 10 minutes tops and you don't lose all your heat like you do on a full shutdown. I'm too nervous to open the door when the flame is kicking an the stove still running.


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 21, 2014)

Google search it, you will find links to this forum about switching the mode. its easy only takes a couple.. i switched mine do mode C and it was a different animal


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## Chrisnow86 (Nov 21, 2014)

DrewBoogie said:


> I will scoop the pot once a day too. How are you guys doing it? I shut the stove off, as soon as the flame dies, I scoop the pot out and then hit the start button. It only takes like 10 minutes tops and you don't lose all your heat like you do on a full shutdown. I'm too nervous to open the door when the flame is kicking an the stove still running.


i just do it a few times a day, once when i get home from work, once before bed, and once when i get up in the AM.. i never shut the stove off i just do it while its running


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## PoopieBritches (Nov 21, 2014)

ispperformance said:


> I just picked up a used Englander 25-PDV for my shop, and am curious about the Burn Pot build up. After about 8hrs of burning the pot is filled and the fire is burning at the back of the pot near the auger. I have tried 3 different brands of pellets, all with the same results, so I am assuming there is something I need to adjust or clean to fix this. The stove was manufactured in 2003, and the three lower buttons are set to 6-4-1.
> I have 2 of the smaller PDVC versions of this stove (same burn pot). One has always burned much cleaner than the other. Not as much buildup as you're getting, but similar.
> Assuming you have stayed within the venting recommendations, you surely have an air leak, or the air is bypassing the burn pot.
> After cleaning and cleaning, replacing all gaskets, I still had a lazy burn that would inevitably result in excessive ash build up (as well as unburned pellets, which you have)
> ...


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## PoopieBritches (Nov 21, 2014)

ispperformance said:


> I just picked up a used Englander 25-PDV for my shop, and am curious about the Burn Pot build up. After about 8hrs of burning the pot is filled and the fire is burning at the back of the pot near the auger. I have tried 3 different brands of pellets, all with the same results, so I am assuming there is something I need to adjust or clean to fix this. The stove was manufactured in 2003, and the three lower buttons are set to 6-4-1.


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## PoopieBritches (Nov 21, 2014)

Sorry folks, I'm an idiot, hopefully this posts correctly.
I have 2 of the smaller PDVC versions of this stove (same burn pot). One has always burned much cleaner than the other. Not as much buildup as you're getting, but similar.
Assuming you have stayed within the venting recommendations, you surely have an air leak, or the air is bypassing the burn pot.
After cleaning and cleaning, replacing all gaskets, I still had a lazy burn that would inevitably result in excessive ash build up (as well as unburned pellets, which you have)
What I discovered was that the air was flowing around the wear plate. I thought it seemed to sit flat enough (no wobble or rattling), but after switching wear plates between the 2 stoves, that's what made the difference.
Rather than buying a new wear plate(I'm broke and cheap), I put a bead of high temp silicone around the lip of the burn pot where the plate sets.
Has made a big improvement in my stove. Obviously, whenever I need to remove the plate, the silicone has to be cleaned off, and new reapplied.
As far as settings, I don't believe that's what's causing such buildup, not that much anyway.
Your settings of 6_4_1 are close enough to achieve a decent burn, I have not found the settings to make THAT big of a difference.


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## shawnfire (Nov 21, 2014)

mode check  unplug the unit  once cool down. plug back in  hit the up and down arrow on the blower motor  at the same time  and it should read ... in the first box... took me a few times of trying this to make it work


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## HD41 (Nov 21, 2014)

PoopieBritches said:


> Sorry folks, I'm an idiot, hopefully this posts correctly.
> I have 2 of the smaller PDVC versions of this stove (same burn pot). One has always burned much cleaner than the other. Not as much buildup as you're getting, but similar.
> Assuming you have stayed within the venting recommendations, you surely have an air leak, or the air is bypassing the burn pot.
> After cleaning and cleaning, replacing all gaskets, I still had a lazy burn that would inevitably result in excessive ash build up (as well as unburned pellets, which you have)
> ...



I had problems with pellets not burning completely and first blamed the different pellets I bought (not my first choice). Stove had been working OK with Somerset pellets so I thought the stove was clean enough. I put a restrictor plate on the burn pot which helped but this turned into a glowing mass that filled the burn pot and spilled over after about 5 hours. Decided to do a thorough cleanout but did notice the burn plate was not seated and had a gap at the front being held up by ash.

To test if this gap was the cause, I placed a nail under the burn plate and buildup of glowing, semi-burned pellets began advancing toward the edge of the burn pot. I didn't have to remove any ash I merely removed the nail to close the gap and the glowing mass receded and turned into light ash within an hour. The cleaning corrected the problem but the gap at the burn plate was apparently the prime cause.





With nail under the burn plate -----------  Buildup of Glowing Unburnt Pellets --- Half hour after nail removed


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 21, 2014)

Pellets should not be pileing up like that.
The first thing I would check is that the control board is operating in the right mode.
There are lots of threads on this forum that discuss checking the operating mode, doing a control board reset and setting the operating mode. I believe that your stove should be in mode "C".
Once you are sure the board is in the right mode, check to see if there is a choke plate at the bottom of the hopper. You can reduce the pellet feed rate (coarse adjustment) by closing off the passage to the upper auger with that choke plate.


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## apandori (Nov 21, 2014)

Set the air feed to 3. Seems to be more torch like and covering the whole burnpot. Could my OAK be feeding too much air? Didn't like pellet feed setting at 5. I'm going to try to change the mode tomorrow probably just to see if that does anything


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## bugman31964 (Nov 22, 2014)

After reading this thread it got me wondering if my summers heat version of this stove was performing at its best. So I had to do a cleaning today anyways and did a couple of things. First off I closed the feed restrictor plate down some. Then adjusted the hopper hatch so now it is very snug when the latches are closed. Seeing the post by HD41 sparked my interest and I fully examined the wear plate and burn pot. What I found was burrs from the manufacturing process. So I go out the files and stones and removed all of the burrs and a piece of welding slag. The plate sits very flat on the burn pot now. Lastly I checked the tightness of the burn pot bolts located below the door and found those to be somewhat loose. Not enough to allow the burn pot to move but probably loose enough to allow for air leakage. I will let you folks know if there is less ash build up tomorrow. My ash build up was not as excessive as the OP.


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## HD41 (Nov 22, 2014)

bugman31964 said:


> After reading this thread it got me wondering if my summers heat version of this stove was performing at its best. So I had to do a cleaning today anyways and did a couple of things. First off I closed the feed restrictor plate down some. Then adjusted the hopper hatch so now it is very snug when the latches are closed. Seeing the post by HD41 sparked my interest and I fully examined the wear plate and burn pot. What I found was burrs from the manufacturing process. So I go out the files and stones and removed all of the burrs and a piece of welding slag. The plate sits very flat on the burn pot now. Lastly I checked the tightness of the burn pot bolts located below the door and found those to be somewhat loose. Not enough to allow the burn pot to move but probably loose enough to allow for air leakage. I will let you folks know if there is less ash build up tomorrow. My ash build up was not as excessive as the OP.



I was blaming the pellets and was about ready to load them up and negotiate a return. The stove had been burning OK before and I had routinely cleaned the ash below the burn plate before using Smith Creek pellets but apparently some ash remained where the burn plate rests creating a gap at the front that I later during another cleaning I noticed by chance. Another post mentioned warped burn plates; I don't know how common it is for the wear plate to cause such a great difference. With the same Smith Creek pellets I went from the pot filling and spilling over In 5 hours to running over 24 hours, pot only about 1/3 full. Be interesting if you find it makes a difference.


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## ispperformance (Nov 22, 2014)

I was not able to find a thread that shows how to check and/or change the mode I am running in. Would like to try mode c if it's not already on it.


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 22, 2014)

ispperformance said:


> I was not able to find a thread that shows how to check and/or change the mode I am running in. Would like to try mode c if it's not already on it.


Try the ESW website


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## adam6979 (Nov 23, 2014)

I can tell you from experience that the amount of build up the OP has is from air leaking in around the gaskets. Mine was the ash tray gasket. It seems that the ashtray some how got warped and the 1/8 gasket wouldn't seal any more. Changed it to a 1/4" thick gasket and the stove was like new. Mind you this was after Englander blamed it on the vacuum switch.... anyway if yours is like mine change that gasket and be sure it is sealing tight. Also check your door gasket. Mine was tight but will act the same way. And just an FYI - air leaks should trip the vacuum switch ... but not always....


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## bugman31964 (Nov 23, 2014)

Ok, so here is the scoop so to say. The fire was more active than previously noted, better burn. The ash build up was slightly less than what it previously was, which was about half of what the original OP had, but mine was after a 20hr burn 1 bag of pellets, not 8hrs and I never had the glowing mass of unburned pellets. It is better than before. I could probably go 2 days without emptying the ash but will probably do it daily. It gives me something to do. Sanding the hopper box to try to get the pellets fall a little better rather than having them "hang" on the sides.


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## HD41 (Nov 23, 2014)

bugman31964 said:


> Ok, so here is the scoop so to say. The fire was more active than previously noted, better burn. The ash build up was slightly less than what it previously was, which was about half of what the original OP had, but mine was after a 20hr burn 1 bag of pellets, not 8hrs and I never had the glowing mass of unburned pellets. It is better than before. I could probably go 2 days without emptying the ash but will probably do it daily. It gives me something to do. Sanding the hopper box to try to get the pellets fall a little better rather than having them "hang" on the sides.



Bugman; that's about where I am now with the Smith Creek pellets, could run another day but daily maintenance is not a chore. I shutdown yesterday just long enough to check the lower part of the burn pot, found very little ash. Smith Creek, Indeck Energy and Green Gold were unknowns to me so when I had the stove problem I wrongly blamed the Smith Creek pellets. I picked up single bags of Indeck  Energy and Green Gold from Tractor Supply today for test burns. Tractor Supply store personnel say they get different pellet brands throughout the year so I want to try what is available before buying another ton. I just put a bag of Indeck Energy in the stove and should know more about them tomorrow morning.


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## ispperformance (Nov 25, 2014)

I found the correct info for changing modes, and the oven was on setting A, changed it to C. Now I can set the heat and blower separately on the control board. Before both would be the same. As for the fire, seems a lot hotter than before, and doesn't seem to be feeding as many pellets. Burning now, and will check the burn pot in 8hrs.


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## adam6979 (Nov 25, 2014)

It certainly sounds like something is wrong. I will say when I first got the stove it ran good. Clean outs needs 2-3 days apart. It went to at least once a day to twice a day clean outs because the burn pot was clogged. Replacing the ashtray gasket with a thicker gasket now has me cleaning out every 3-4 days and absolutely no build up in the burn pot at all and usually that would be one bag of pellets per day. I would have never tolerated the englander but I didnt want to spend another 3k on another quad. However I now like it almost better than the quad because it was only $800!


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## apandori (Nov 27, 2014)

I switched over to mode c and I can already tell the stove is running better. I also tightened the hopper lid latches. Now the lid can't move at all. No more pile of pellets for me!

Anybody know what the difference is between C and D?


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## DrewBoogie (Nov 27, 2014)

I hear C mode rips through pellets, anyone have an estimation how much more?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 27, 2014)

I can't give ya numbers, but I tried it and got over that real fast.


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