# Tales from the woods..



## MoDoug (Nov 23, 2020)

I'm not a lumberjack, but I think I'm an OK feller. It's obvious which way most trees will fall, but some trees are more challenging. Last week I had a few challenges. The most interesting one was about 10 inches wide and about 50 feet high, with a curve to one side, then one to the other, and a small canopy of branches. I felt like I could drop which way I wanted. To make it more interesting, it was a windy day, swirling from different directions. I decided to drop it north, then I could drag it closer to the road. I made my undercut on the north side of the tree, as I was making my backcut, the tree swayed and grabbed my saw. Another sway and it was released, I pulled the saw out, stood back and watched as my backcut slowly narrowed and reopened. The wind was really playing with it and my head, I got to thinking it wanted to drop to the south, no back to the north, it was on the edge. First thing I did was move my truck, which I'm sure was safe, but I wasn't taking any chances, all the while keeping an untrusting eye on the tree. After watching it for a couple minutes it seemed to want to drop south, so I made a new undercut using the original backcut. Here I am with two notches cut out on opposite sides of a 50 foot tree with about 2 inches of wood holding it up.  I stood there close to a minute, watching, wondering what the heck it was going to do, then I heard a snap and it dropped the way I originally wanted. Sadly, after all that, a lot of the center was rotten... LOL...


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## Nealm66 (Nov 23, 2020)

Lol, cutting in the wind can be exhilarating! I was a timber faller for 20 years and we would go home if the wind was dangerous or no way to let it work for you( bushling wind). One time we had about 4 hours left cutting for a new road through the woods ( called cutting right of way) and the wind was on the verge of blowing trees over but we were over a mile in and needed it done so we finished it. I could feel the root wads picking up under my feet as I was cutting them down. I seen/did some crazy stuff through the years.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 23, 2020)

Sometimes on a ten inch size tree that needs help with the lean I will put my back cut in first and pick it up a little bit with a wedge and then keep tickling undercuts in until I’ve got the holding wood I want and then finish wedging it over. This is a similar practice to using a jack in a large tree. If you keep your undercut at 1/3 diameter (almost always the best approach) it helps keep the tree from busting off backwards in a situation like you were in.


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## MoDoug (Nov 23, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Lol, cutting in the wind can be exhilarating! I was a timber faller for 20 years and we would go home if the wind was dangerous or no way to let it work for you( bushling wind). One time we had about 4 hours left cutting for a new road through the woods ( called cutting right of way) and the wind was on the verge of blowing trees over but we were over a mile in and needed it done so we finished it. I could feel the root wads picking up under my feet as I was cutting them down. I seen/did some crazy stuff through the years.



I'm definitely a weekender when it comes to this. I bet you have some interesting stories, things I've never considered like having root wads lifting you up, that had to be unnerving. Made for a good story afterwards! LOL


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## Prof (Nov 24, 2020)

A bunch of years ago I dropped a hickory that ended up being mostly hollow. After the tree hit the ground, a squirrel stumbled out from the trunk like a drunk Scotsman (reference to ). After that, I just smile when weird stuff happens when I have the saw or axe in my hand. Despite the rotten tree, I'm glad things worked out for you.


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## MoDoug (Nov 24, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Sometimes on a ten inch size tree that needs help with the lean I will put my back cut in first and pick it up a little bit with a wedge and then keep tickling undercuts in until I’ve got the holding wood I want and then finish wedging it over. This is a similar practice to using a jack in a large tree. If you keep your undercut at 1/3 diameter (almost always the best approach) it helps keep the tree from busting off backwards in a situation like you were in.



This is good stuff, I was hoping someone would offer advice on that situation. I do need to pick up a couple wedges, and learn how to use them... Doing the back cut first, and working as you mentioned is appreciated. 

Another one of my challenges last week, fits in very well with your 1/3 diameter undercut approach. I learned that the hard way, except this time I had a hard leaning tree, there was only one way it was going. I made the mistake of making my undercut more than half way, I took out too much and the tree leaned on my blade. This was a good size tree, about 12 inches diameter, and maybe 40 feet long. There was no removing it. Before I disassembled the bar and chain, to put on my spare, I hooked up a chain and a strap to the tree and pulled it enough with my F250 to release my saw. I know it was a potentially dangerous situation with the strap, but it worked. Your 1/3 diameter advice is very sound and will be followed in the future.


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## MoDoug (Nov 24, 2020)

Prof said:


> A bunch of years ago I dropped a hickory that ended up being mostly hollow. After the tree hit the ground, a squirrel stumbled out from the trunk like a drunk Scotsman. After that, I just smile when weird stuff happens when I have the saw or axe in my hand. Despite the rotten tree, I'm glad things worked out for you.



Thank you Prof! That's a great story, the squirrel had it's cage rattled! LOL  Squirrels and I don't like each other, so I would have really enjoyed watching it recover and stumble off. You have to pause and appreciate interesting things when they happen.

BTW, enjoyed the Drunk Scotsman! Won first place! LOL


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## peakbagger (Nov 24, 2020)

My brother had a small wind event that dropped some big white pines. One of them was across the driveway to his cabin. It was about 3' at the base but the base was about 30 feet from the driveway. It was around 30" diameter at the driveway and about 3' up off the driveway.  When the tree blew over it took the root ball with it which was about 20 feet in diameter. It was safer to make the first cut clear of the root ball so he cut it at the driveway. He has a large Husky with 30" bar that is normally used for a chainsaw mill so he started cutting. from the top and wedged it up. He then started cutting from the bottom assuming it wold  drop down. Then the bottom cut started closing up and the wedges on the top loosened up. He then switched back to the top cut and the 30 foot trunk end with the root ball lifted up and stood straight up again. Anyone that didnt not see it happen could not believe it had flipped back up as the ground barely looked disturbed. Of course when they saw it cut straight 30' up they believed it.


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## MoDoug (Nov 24, 2020)

peakbagger said:


> My brother had a small wind event that dropped some big white pines. One of them was across the driveway to his cabin. It was about 3' at the base but the base was about 30 feet from the driveway. It was around 30" diameter at the driveway and about 3' up off the driveway.  When the tree blew over it took the root ball with it which was about 20 feet in diameter. It was safer to make the first cut clear of the root ball so he cut it at the driveway. He has a large Husky with 30" bar that is normally used for a chainsaw mill so he started cutting. from the top and wedged it up. He then started cutting from the bottom assuming it wold  drop down. Then the bottom cut started closing up and the wedges on the top loosened up. He then switched back to the top cut and the 30 foot trunk end with the root ball lifted up and stood straight up again. Anyone that didnt not see it happen could not believe it had flipped back up as the ground barely looked disturbed. Of course when they saw it cut straight 30' up they believed it.



That had to really odd for him to experience, and the look on other peoples faces when they realize it did happen!


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## Nealm66 (Nov 24, 2020)

Ya, I hated working in blow down. Especially on steep ground and big tall timber. Definitely glad to be out of the industry when I think about it. Just be careful if you try the back cut first. If you misjudge your lean the tree will want to pinch your saw when your putting in your undercut. If you do happen to have one come over on your pinched saw, grab your starter rope and pull it out and get yourself in a safe spot. There’s a split second when it’s falling, it will release your saw, use the starter rope to jerk it to safety. Everything just takes time and practice. I suspect the wind was working for you, not really swirling, and that the tree just leaned back.  Hardwoods  act a lot different then softwoods. After a few years of every day, cutting them down, the excitement and macho pretty much fizzles away and then it’s just a grind


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## Jags (Nov 24, 2020)

I have seen several root balls stand back up.


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## peakbagger (Nov 24, 2020)

It was relatively snow motion and definitely a WTF moment.


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## andym (Nov 24, 2020)

My grandpa used to tell about the time him and his BIL went out to cut down a hollow hickory tree on a cold winter day. They took the .22 along 'just in case'. When the tree hit the ground 4 large raccoons came boiling out! They happily shot them and sold them to the fur buyer for 20 bucks a piece. Back then (70's perhaps?) $80 was worth a lot more than it is now. I'd still be happy with that amount today though!


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## MoDoug (Nov 24, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Ya, I hated working in blow down. Especially on steep ground and big tall timber. Definitely glad to be out of the industry when I think about it. Just be careful if you try the back cut first. If you misjudge your lean the tree will want to pinch your saw when your putting in your undercut. If you do happen to have one come over on your pinched saw, grab your starter rope and pull it out and get yourself in a safe spot. There’s a split second when it’s falling, it will release your saw, use the starter rope to jerk it to safety. Everything just takes time and practice. I suspect the wind was working for you, not really swirling, and that the tree just leaned back.  Hardwoods  act a lot different then softwoods. After a few years of every day, cutting them down, the excitement and macho pretty much fizzles away and then it’s just a grind



I always thought I would have enjoyed being in the industry. I'm sure it has/had it's moments of simple to very challenging, even downright dangerous. If I had one come down on my saw, I'm not sure I could hang with it long enough to pull it free with the starter rope, my first instinct is to survive. LOL But you never know. As you say time and practice. Appreciate it!


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## Nealm66 (Nov 24, 2020)

Ya, sorry , my advice should come with a warning sticker. Safety first always. I had the really cool opportunity of working with a bunch of highly skilled guys in old growth for my first 6 years and seen some really cool stuff. I was too young to appreciate it at the time but some things I take for granted are not common knowledge even in the industry these days


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## jetsam (Nov 25, 2020)

No lumberjack here but I've been dropping and bucking firewood for a long time.

I was dropping a small (~12") ant-killed pine tree a while back. It was leaning one way a little and that seemed like the best way to let it go, so I decided to notch it that way.  It still had bark all the way around the bottom.  I picked two escape routes out of the intended fall zone, more or less both 90°,  and started notching.

Well, those of you who caught the "ant killed" in the first line know the next part.  I think the bark was all that was holding that tree up, and it broke while I was doing the first cut for the first notch and started falling sideways right at me (and my escape route).

I snatched my saw and ran for the second route. I didn't know until a few seconds later,, but the damn thing snagged at the top, the bottom swung out towards the way it had been falling, and it fell the opposite damn way that it had been falling, right into the second escape route.

The second escape route featured a larger tree that I was able to dive behind. And I got to see that tree falling right towards me.

It wasn't a big tree but it seemed a LOT bigger for a few seconds there.

I won't forget that one any time soon.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

Thats a good adrenaline rush. I can remember a few times cutting in some rotten old growth patches, basically salvage logging, where similar things like that would happen. I only saw this one particular thing one time but was told about it being common, the big rotten piece of crap would start tipping and buckle up about 20’ and then keep buckling every 20’ or so,looking something like when they blast a building down. Its pretty much luck at that point of wether you or your saw is going to make it out of the strip that day. Not sure why but if memory serves, they called it walking the stairs.


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## neverbilly (Nov 25, 2020)

It is threads like these and my own experience felling trees that reminds me how dangerous it is. I have known several men killed by trees, I grew up in a timber growing area. The problem with trees is that no matter how good you are, the unexpected can happen and it could be your final cut. Other than that, I enjoyed your stories, lol.  Stay safe!


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

I’ll try to put some mistakes and tricks on here if you guys want. Off the top of my head, I break a stick and hold it out arms length and put the bottom and the top of the tree at the bottom and top of the stick and I come within a few feet of where the tree will top out


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

Working today but I’ll keep throwing stuff on here if you guys want.


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## Simonkenton (Nov 25, 2020)

I cut down lots of big trees.  Just to get my views from my mountaintop here in NC I have cut down over 90 trees,  average 95 feet tall and 20 inch diameter.
Just last summer I whacked four big trees to help get my brother his view,  the small one was 32 inch diameter and 98 feet tall.   The big one was 36 inch diameter.   On a steep,  45 degree hillside with a 20 inch bar,  it is a tricky and dangerous deal.

One tool I don't go to work without is the plumb bob.   Just a 5 foot piece of white kite string with a one ounce steel weight tied to the end.
A great way to tell which way the tree is leaning,  I wouldn't crank up my chain saw if I didn't have my plumb bob.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

I will use my ax the same way. Just hold it out with the head down. Probably better with an actual plumb bob


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

Here’s another trick. For boring. Let’s say you fall a big tree to cut in to firewood. Step back and look for air pockets under the log at spaces close enough that aren’t too heavy to roll. Start at the top with the tip of your bar and draw it down the log and start boring straight through. Put a twist on the motor to keep it from bucking. Once your bored through , carefully finish the cut down leaving all the wood at the top . Then finish the cut. This helps keep your chain out of the dirt. Repeat until you have rollable lengths. Then just roll to get the bottom cuts. Hope that made sense ha ha


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

Here’s another, if you have a tree set back on your saw and it has to go the way you want it to, it is possible to bore in a little ways so as to make a spot to put a wedge in. No promises but I have rescued a few guys working on a boundary line that way. It does require some healthy beating on the wedge and doesn’t work in really big timber. The same can be done to free up a pinched bar while bucking. Just don’t hit the other bar/chain


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## MoDoug (Nov 25, 2020)

jetsam said:


> No lumberjack here but I've been dropping and bucking firewood for a long time.
> 
> I was dropping a small (~12") ant-killed pine tree a while back. It was leaning one way a little and that seemed like the best way to let it go, so I decided to notch it that way.  It still had bark all the way around the bottom.  I picked two escape routes out of the intended fall zone, more or less both 90°,  and started notching.
> 
> ...



jetsam, I react with an LOL because it turns out to be a great story, and thankfully so!


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## MoDoug (Nov 25, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> I’ll try to put some mistakes and tricks on here if you guys want. Off the top of my head, I break a stick and hold it out arms length and put the bottom and the top of the tree at the bottom and top of the stick and I come within a few feet of where the tree will top out



Keep the stories and tips coming. They are entertaining and enlightening.


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## MoDoug (Nov 25, 2020)

Simonkenton said:


> I cut down lots of big trees.  Just to get my views from my mountaintop here in NC I have cut down over 90 trees,  average 95 feet tall and 20 inch diameter.
> Just last summer I whacked four big trees to help get my brother his view,  the small one was 32 inch diameter and 98 feet tall.   The big one was 36 inch diameter.   On a steep,  45 degree hillside with a 20 inch bar,  it is a tricky and dangerous deal.
> 
> One tool I don't go to work without is the plumb bob.   Just a 5 foot piece of white kite string with a one ounce steel weight tied to the end.
> A great way to tell which way the tree is leaning,  I wouldn't crank up my chain saw if I didn't have my plumb bob.



Interesting tip, I'll have to add one to my saw tool bucket!


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Keep the stories and tips coming. They are entertaining and enlightening.


I’m trying to keep it relevant and safe. The stick trick is actually pretty cool. It’s going to vary for everyone but it only takes a couple trees to get it. Cut a straight stick at 17” and hold it out at arms length and keep walking away from the tree until the top and bottom are matched. Mark the spot, fall the tree. Adjust the stick length until it is spot on. May never need to use it but it will be a feather in a hat


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## Nealm66 (Nov 25, 2020)

Simonkenton said:


> I cut down lots of big trees.  Just to get my views from my mountaintop here in NC I have cut down over 90 trees,  average 95 feet tall and 20 inch diameter.
> Just last summer I whacked four big trees to help get my brother his view,  the small one was 32 inch diameter and 98 feet tall.   The big one was 36 inch diameter.   On a steep,  45 degree hillside with a 20 inch bar,  it is a tricky and dangerous deal.
> 
> One tool I don't go to work without is the plumb bob.   Just a 5 foot piece of white kite string with a one ounce steel weight tied to the end.
> A great way to tell which way the tree is leaning,  I wouldn't crank up my chain saw if I didn't have my plumb bob.


 this is actually very impressive, we hardly ever ran bars long enough to make it completely across the diameter and the ground was too steep to reach from the low side. We would basically make shift spring boards, basically cut a limb about 2-3’ long, flat on one side and a long 4 sided point on the other. Then bore a pointed four sided hole in the stump on the low side. Pound the limb in and that would give you a precarious perch to stand on to get the low sided cuts. Sometimes if we were working in sets, the other guy would hold you steady


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## MoDoug (Nov 26, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s another trick. For boring. Let’s say you fall a big tree to cut in to firewood. Step back and look for air pockets under the log at spaces close enough that aren’t too heavy to roll. Start at the top with the tip of your bar and draw it down the log and start boring straight through. Put a twist on the motor to keep it from bucking. Once your bored through , carefully finish the cut down leaving all the wood at the top . Then finish the cut. This helps keep your chain out of the dirt. Repeat until you have rollable lengths. Then just roll to get the bottom cuts. Hope that made sense ha ha



I had to think about it, but it made sense. When cutting down trees, and the blade cuts through on the bottom, it collapses on itself and jams the blade into the ground. I've learned to be transition to the tip of the bar, and nibble away till it cuts through, to help prevent jamming into the ground. Of course it can still collapse onto the blade. I carry a big pry bar when that happens. With your method, it leaves wood at the top to prevent it collapsing onto itself. I'll have to give this a try.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 26, 2020)

Here’s another, to help avoid a barber chair on a hard leaning tree, try swinging it in one direction or the other away from its lean. It will likely break off and not swing but it way less likely to barber chair. If it has to go in the direction of its lean, after making the under cut, make a cut in on both sides that comes back far enough that when you start your back cut, it meets both side cuts quickly. This cut pretty much eliminates a barber chair. On a very large tree that needs to swing a little bit, it helps to bore in and leave the appropriate holding wood and then cut your way back leaving a strap so as not to barber chair ( we called it alligator) and also eliminates a lot of wood pull from the hinge. Ha ha might have went too far with that one, anybody understand wth I’m trying say?


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## Simonkenton (Nov 26, 2020)

The plumb bob with the white kite string is just a great tool.    It is so accurate and easy to use.


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## jsab9191 (Nov 26, 2020)

Plumb bob is a great idea in a hilly area, I have a tough time reading trees on a hillside.h


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## Nealm66 (Nov 26, 2020)

Happy thanksgiving! Here’s another tip to play with, make a lip at the bottom of your undercut to jump the tree off the stump. Comes in handy falling a tree after it has set back and pinched a saw and some knuckle head had it dogged in tight from the low side on a hillside. Another trick is is to slant the undercut , this will allow the butt to kick off to that side avoiding something in front or to avoid breaking an expensive tree. This trick may involve cutting the hinge wood off as the tree is leaving so may take some practice and might not be for everyone


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## Nealm66 (Nov 27, 2020)

Here’s something we don’t want to learn the hard way. If working on a hillside in trees that are much bigger than our bar ( simonkenton knows this) make dang sure wether falling or bucking, every thing can be finished from the uphill side. One example of this is when cutting old growth working in sets and the ground is steep, the bucker measures and starts the cuts in a way that can be finished from the high side. This means reaching over and cutting to the low side sometimes laying on your belly while the faller is hanging on to your foot to keep you from sliding off. This is repeated from the butt to the top and   only need assist till the logs become small enough  . All the cuts that can be completed from the uphill side are done so. Then the bucker hops down to the low side and finishes the low side cuts , back to the butt. Then goes back out to the furthest cut on the high side and works his way to the butt finishing ever cut his bar length will allow ( sometimes have to grab the falling saw!) , the order of cuts can change of course due to pressure/danger or to make a log roll out of the way for the next tree


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## neverbilly (Nov 27, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s another trick. For boring. Let’s say you fall a big tree to cut in to firewood. Step back and look for air pockets under the log at spaces close enough that aren’t too heavy to roll. Start at the top with the tip of your bar and draw it down the log and start boring straight through. Put a twist on the motor to keep it from bucking. Once your bored through , carefully finish the cut down leaving all the wood at the top . Then finish the cut. This helps keep your chain out of the dirt. Repeat until you have rollable lengths. Then just roll to get the bottom cuts. Hope that made sense ha ha



So, you bore through at a spot below the top of the log? All the way to the bottom? Then cut the holding wood at the top? The bar won't pinch on the way down? Never done that but I would like to learn it, I don't like hitting dirt.

I saw another tip one time where someone was talking about mud/dirt on a log. If you can roll it, you can roll the log so dirt is on top and then kind of do what you are talking about and when you cut the last holding wood at the top, you do it with the upper side of the bar so that you are throwing chips away from you. Which means the dirt is not in contact with much of your chain but for just a split second. Hope that makes sense, lol.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 27, 2020)

neverbilly said:


> So, you bore through at a spot below the top of the log? All the way to the bottom? Then cut the holding wood at the top? The bar won't pinch on the way down? Never done that but I would like to learn it, I don't like hitting dirt.
> 
> I saw another tip one time where someone was talking about mud/dirt on a log. If you can roll it, you can roll the log so dirt is on top and then kind of do what you are talking about and when you cut the last holding wood at the top, you do it with the upper side of the bar so that you are throwing chips away from you. Which means the dirt is not in contact with much of your chain but for just a split second. Hope that makes sense, lol.


So, no, you are just kinda skimming down from the top of the log to a lower spot that gives enough room to keep your bar out of the dirt. Skimming down from the top makes a good reference mark and also makes it easier to start boring. Boring is probably something every one that does a lot of cutting should learn how to do. Just twist the motor as your pushing it through. Just takes practice. Yes, back baring the dirt helps a bit cus it keeps the dirt out of the cut but if it’s dirty, I will just chop the bark off where the cut is


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## Nealm66 (Nov 27, 2020)

Boring is difficult if you are using anti kick chain. I would grind that extra rider part off. Sorry if this raises any flags but if you are going to learn how to bore, anti kick chain makes it near impossible


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## neverbilly (Nov 27, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> So, no, you are just kinda skimming down from the top of the log to a lower spot that gives enough room to keep your bar out of the dirt. Skimming down from the top makes a good reference mark and also makes it easier to start boring. Boring is probably something every one that does a lot of cutting should learn how to do. *Just twist the motor* as your pushing it through. Just takes practice. Yes, back baring the dirt helps a bit cus it keeps the dirt out of the cut but if it’s dirty, I will just chop the bark off where the cut is



Ok, but what do you mean by "twist" the motor?


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## Nealm66 (Nov 27, 2020)

If you don’t , the saw will buck violently, twisting while pushing eliminates this. It takes some practice


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## Nealm66 (Nov 27, 2020)

I should try to make some videos, just feel weird when I’m at a job to do so. I had a job a while back where they strapped a go pro on a bicycle helmet and I topped a tree at a little over 36”. They made a disc for me but no idea where I put it


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## MoDoug (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> I should try to make some videos, just feel weird when I’m at a job to do so. I had a job a while back where they strapped a go pro on a bicycle helmet and I topped a tree at a little over 36”. They made a disc for me but no idea where I put it



Is that your profile picture on this site?


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## MoDoug (Nov 28, 2020)

Simonkenton said:


> The plumb bob with the white kite string is just a great tool.    It is so accurate and easy to use.



You sold me, I can see how handy it would be. I made one for cutting tool box. I used 6 feet of kite string and a fishing cast weight.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Is that your profile picture on this site?


Yes, it was a recent job for a co worker. There were 3 trees total, the first two sucked and took some spider man and I’m too old for that but oh well.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

And ya, that saw is too big, I use a small one hander stihl till it gets too big then I usually have a little bigger  saw after that but i ran into the issue of the 550 not being able to run 63 gauge so I bought a 562 that just didn’t fit so I got rid of it. I wore out a couple 260 size stihls and just wanted a little more umph. I’m not sure what I’m going to do, I might just buy a cheapo 250 and modify the crap out of it. I’ve had good luck with that in the past.


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## Simonkenton (Nov 28, 2020)

You look at a tree, and you can pretty well figure which way it is leaning.  Or, so you think.
Then,  get your plumb bob,  stand back maybe 50 feet where you can look at the entire height of the tree against that bright white kite string.  You can see perfectly which way it leans.  Or, some of them,  don't lean at all from that perspective.
Then walk 1/4 of the way around the tree,  so that you are 90 degrees away from the first spot.  Use the plumb bob again.

I am pretty good at cutting down big trees,  and about 1 out of 5 I am wrong when just eyeballing.  Plumb bob doesn't lie.


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## MoDoug (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Yes, it was a recent job for a co worker. There were 3 trees total, the first two sucked and took some spider man and I’m too old for that but oh well.



Those power lines make it look interesting.


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## MoDoug (Nov 28, 2020)

Simonkenton said:


> You look at a tree, and you can pretty well figure which way it is leaning.  Or, so you think.
> Then,  get your plumb bob,  stand back maybe 50 feet where you can look at the entire height of the tree against that bright white kite string.  You can see perfectly which way it leans.  Or, some of them,  don't lean at all from that perspective.
> Then walk 1/4 of the way around the tree,  so that you are 90 degrees away from the first spot.  Use the plumb bob again.
> 
> I am pretty good at cutting down big trees,  and about 1 out of 5 I am wrong when just eyeballing.  Plumb bob doesn't lie.



Eyeballing trees on hill sides, like you  mentioned previously, are especially challenging.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Those power lines make it look interesting.


That particular tree was pretty basic, the two before sucked and required some additional rigging


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

Hardwoods or large trees with a big wingspan can be hard to read even with the plumb bob trick. If it’s not a discernible lean and the diameter is small to where getting a wedge in without jamming your bar, back cut first or if nervous about undercutting a back cut tree, make a small undercut, then divide the back cut in half, so only back cut half the tree leaving wood so tree can’t set back, drive a wedge in leaving room to stick yours saw in to finish the back cut


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of folks making undercuts with the angled part coming down . Can’t remember if that’s called a humbolt or siginaw. The forest circus and the state all require the angle coming up from the stump which supposedly doesn’t waist any wood from the log. I find it a lot more difficult cleaning my undercut if I’m trying to work on the top cut. With the undercut coming out of the stump it’s very easy working on the bottom cut. Not sure why people do the top cut thing or if they just haven’t tried the other. Like everything, there’s a little bit to get used to but way easier once it’s learned


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

Another thing I find my old self doing these days is loosing the suspenders. A belt with a longer shirt keeps a lot of sawdust away from where it don’t belong


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Lol, cutting in the wind can be exhilarating! I was a timber faller for 20 years and we would go home if the wind was dangerous or no way to let it work for you( bushling wind). One time we had about 4 hours left cutting for a new road through the woods ( called cutting right of way) and the wind was on the verge of blowing trees over but we were over a mile in and needed it done so we finished it. I could feel the root wads picking up under my feet as I was cutting them down. I seen/did some crazy stuff through the years.


My wife pulled over a large fir rooted over several boulders and I "rode" the root flare into the air and back down after the stem finally snapped.


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## neverbilly (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Yes, it was a recent job for a co worker. There were 3 trees total, the first two sucked and took some spider man and I’m too old for that but oh well.



My gosh, what size saw are you tailing? lol, that's a big un. And what kind of tree, got tons of limbs.


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## Simonkenton (Nov 28, 2020)

Yes it is particularly difficult to eyeball the lean of the tree on a steep hillside.   Now,  most of them lean downhill.
But not all.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

neverbilly said:


> My gosh, what size saw are you tailing? lol, that's a big un. And what kind of tree, got tons of limbs.


I’m horrible with remembering husky models, I believe that’s a 572? I know it’s modified, I bought it at harbor saw in Aberdeen Washington and it’s peppy! I had another bigger saw there , a 385?  It was a short fat white fir ( piss fir) and had been pruned away from the lines somewhat but still entangled the utilities and crowded the neutral


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> My wife pulled over a large fir rooted over several boulders and I "rode" the root flare into the air and back down after the stem finally snapped.


That’s a hold my beer moment where I’m from


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> That’s a hold my beer moment where I’m from


It was unexpected to say the least. One tamarack with a rotten bottom fell on the wrong side, luckily very slowly. It landed where my wife was standing and even came to rest on top of the tractor ROPS. We have made a few changes to our operation since!


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

Here’s a good example of the undercut being too deep, postcard perfect looking otherwise. But this would be the guy walking over to my strip cus his saw is pinched


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## SpaceBus (Nov 28, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s a good example of the undercut being too deep, postcard perfect looking otherwise. But this would be the guy walking over to my strip cus his saw is pinched


I'll have to take some pics of the most recent stumps. I do the same undercut, but definitely not that deep. If anything I make the hinge a bit to shallow, but I also have a winch assistant.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 28, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> I'll have to take some pics of the most recent stumps. I do the same undercut, but definitely not that deep. If anything I make the hinge a bit to shallow, but I also have a winch assistant.


It’s also a leverage thing when wedging. ( hinge wood is a pivot point)And a horrible waist of fuel if in big wood. Them old timers would have scowled at me if I made a pretty stump like that ha ha


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

Here’s another tip, if you’re cutting a tree down that’s a lot bigger than your bar and your trying to pound a nail with the top, it can be a little tricky to tell wether your face is straight across to the other side. Well, if you measure out about 15’ or so from each outside corner of undercut  and pound a stick in, then , while close and centered  as possible to tree ,line up with your stick(front sight), and see if it lines up with the target, also can stand at target and look back to see if a correction is needed. Just remember to account for drift and keep your back cut parallel with the undercut ( if angled, it can make one side pull slightly different). This might sound like a lot of fuss but it was a trick I used more than once on trees hovering around the 8’ diameter as they were very valuable and hard to read. And we had what we called chunk inspectors and if you had excessive breakage in your strip, you no longer were employed.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

Here’s another, if every time you miss your shot and your confident you had everything gun barreled correctly, take a large square and check to see if the bar is square with your site line. Yes, I’ve had to draw a line with a permanent marker on my little topping saw this way. It was way off.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

A couple of the old timers I worked with started out hand cutting with crosscut and ax. While the falling of big trees might seem magical, the real mystery was hth they were able to buck them into manageable lengths, especially on steep hillsides. Well, the answer I got was , for the cut coming from underneath, they made grooves into the ax handle, the would stick the ax in the log in such a way that the bucking saw could be flipped upside down and ride in the groove. And this also straight from one of the horses mouths, well, you would be surprised at how many cuts can all be finished from the top down. This mystery is definitely one of the lost talents.


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## MoDoug (Nov 30, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s another, if every time you miss your shot and your confident you had everything gun barreled correctly, take a large square and check to see if the bar is square with your site line. Yes, I’ve had to draw a line with a permanent marker on my little topping saw this way. It was way off.



Not quite sure if this is what you're referring to, but every time I sharpen my saw chain I flip the bar over so it doesn't develop a twist.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Not quite sure if this is what you're referring to, but every time I sharpen my saw chain I flip the bar over so it doesn't develop a twist.


Nope. Sorry if confusing. There’s a line on both sides of a saw. These are used for aiming when you make an undercut. They are not always accurate and it can make a difference with the bar shape.


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## MoDoug (Nov 30, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s another trick. For boring. Let’s say you fall a big tree to cut in to firewood. Step back and look for air pockets under the log at spaces close enough that aren’t too heavy to roll. Start at the top with the tip of your bar and draw it down the log and start boring straight through. Put a twist on the motor to keep it from bucking. Once your bored through , carefully finish the cut down leaving all the wood at the top . Then finish the cut. This helps keep your chain out of the dirt. Repeat until you have rollable lengths. Then just roll to get the bottom cuts. Hope that made sense ha ha



Had a chance to use this tip today, it took me a few cuts to think about using it in the right place, but it came in handy. I even thought to take a picture of it.


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## MoDoug (Nov 30, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Nope. Sorry if confusing. There’s a line on both sides of a saw. These are used for aiming when you make an undercut. They are not always accurate and it can make a difference with the bar shape.



There's a youtube video of a guy from Husqvarvna cutting down a tree and he stands back and lines up his saw with where he wanted it to drop, this must be what you're talking about. I wondered what he was talking about, I'm going to have to look for those lines on my saw.


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

Yup, those lines should be a 90 degree from your bar , that gives you an aiming point. Sometimes a funky weird bar can be off. Most times they’re pretty close, although some saws when you flip, they can be slightly different although that’s probably the bar again


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## Nealm66 (Nov 30, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Had a chance to use this tip today, it took me a few cuts to think about using it in the right place, but it came in handy. I even thought to take a picture of it.
> 
> View attachment 268084


I think the more you practice boring, you will find many times how handy it is


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## peakbagger (Dec 1, 2020)

There is  a logger safety program called the Game of  Logging that mixed safety with competition that got a lot of press in the 1980s . The training was big on precision logging. They wanted every tree to be dropped to be dropped with precision and to drop only when and where they wanted it to. They used the guide marks on the saws. It was founded by a swedish logger and the media and sponsors both supported it. The founder eventually left the US but licensed the rights to a group that continues to offer it. https://www.woodlandtraining.com/GOLhistory.php. They seem to have a lot lower profile these days.

One of the reasons for corporate support of GOL is hand logging with a saw is one of riskiest professions out there. Few companies can afford to employ sawyers as the workmans comp rate is incredibly high if its even available. GOL is a way of improving skills and safety awareness for loggers. What has happened in the northeast is most of the remaining logging companies have gone full mechanized and many dont employee actual loggers that use saws, they employ equipment operators who spend their day in the seat of piece of equipment.  If they need hand sawing done they sub it out to a private contractor, who is usually a sole proprietor who freqently has a spouse with health insurance from work as a workaround the workmans comp issue. Some guys go "naked" and just hope they dont get hurt. It rarely ends well unless they get out of the woods  I saw a reference somewhere that the biggest risk to the new equpment based "logger" is cardiovascular disease related to lack of physical activity on their job (I am not sure if it was a joke or not).  Take a look the reruns of the American Logger shows and you notice you rarely if ever see a chainsaw at the Swamp Loggers operations or the Pelletier's operations in Northern Maine.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 1, 2020)

A lot of that is similar here. Even on the steep ground they’re trying to yo yo them bunchers over the hill. There’s still a lot of hand cutting though, the state land has mostly 60-90 year fir(too big) that’s too much of a pain for the machines and a lot of the tree farms around here are on the side of cliff’s( sarcasm) . I’ve heard there’s a certification that is coming about in the industry. It’s probably a good idea. I worked with guys that had been cutting 30-40 years in the big league that you definitely needed to be a tree and 1/2 length away with your strip. I used to tease one of them and say it looked like they dropped they’re strip out of a plane. Not sure what kept those guys alive but they definitely produced a mountain of work every day


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## peakbagger (Dec 1, 2020)

The company I worked for had the last pulp and paper company employed crew in New England. They had great safety records, when the company laid them off and sold what little land they had left most went to work for contractors that had to crank out the wood to make a buck. Almost all our former employees got injured within months as they were trained to work in the safe way not the fast way.


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## SpaceBus (Dec 1, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Nope. Sorry if confusing. There’s a line on both sides of a saw. These are used for aiming when you make an undercut. They are not always accurate and it can make a difference with the bar shape.


Both of my Stihl 1/4 micro picco bars are tweaked from getting pinched by limbs and whatnot, can't cut straight for anything. The bar rails are flat and cutters are equal. It's frustrating because none of my electric circular blade saws can cut through rough cut 4x4's without turning the work. I'll have to get a new bar and mark it so I don't use it when limbing.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 1, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Both of my Stihl 1/4 micro picco bars are tweaked from getting pinched by limbs and whatnot, can't cut straight for anything. The bar rails are flat and cutters are equal. It's frustrating because none of my electric circular blade saws can cut through rough cut 4x4's without turning the work. I'll have to get a new bar and mark it so I don't use it when limbing.


 a limb pinch happens to the best of us. If it pinched my bar I would always pull my chain and give it some light raps with my bar wrench using a falling wedge, lightly ( but quickly-time is money) widening and working a driver through as I go till it’s back to acceptable width. I never had  a limb pinch would cause a chain to cut crooked but who knows. I will say , at least the environment I was in, falling timber for a living is different than wacking a couple trees down and slicing them into firewood so I really don’t have much experience on the other side other(firewooding) than when I do/did resi tree work so there’s a lot that I don’t know


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## Nealm66 (Dec 1, 2020)

peakbagger said:


> The company I worked for had the last pulp and paper company employed crew in New England. They had great safety records, when the company laid them off and sold what little land they had left most went to work for contractors that had to crank out the wood to make a buck. Almost all our former employees got injured within months as they were trained to work in the safe way not the fast way.


I remember when Weyerhaeuser decided the liability was too high to have in house cutters. Two fatalities in one year. Spotted owl hadn’t hit and we inherited a couple of them and I double jacked (ya, that’s what we called it ha ha) with one of them for a while. He was as good as any, I hate to say average because he was an extremely good person. I remember when we were cutting old growth, only a couple guys wore chaps on a crew that averaged about 30 because the ground was so steep and nobody wanted any restrictions on they’re legs when they needed to run for they’re lives. Nobody used ear plugs because there’s a wind sound you can hear when something is falling. I saved 2 or 3 guys lives because of this. I started using chaps when I started working in smaller timber, less danger and it saved my pant legs from the wear. Even started using ear plugs. Never could use eye protection though, not because I didn’t try, just too dangerous . I remember when tennis shoes first started becoming cork shoes, yup , buy yourself a brand new pair of tenny’s and have the bottoms corked. I have a pair of hiking shoes now that hold up better ha ha. Glad those days are over


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## SpaceBus (Dec 1, 2020)

My limbing saw gets quite a bit of work prepping spruce and fir logs for my mill. I use the saw more than a typical firewooder.


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## MoDoug (Dec 1, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Nope. Sorry if confusing. There’s a line on both sides of a saw. These are used for aiming when you make an undercut. They are not always accurate and it can make a difference with the bar shape.



I have been using that line to measure my cuts at about 19", never realized it had an alternative purpose. LOL  I had a chance to use it today on an oak about 50 feet high and about 13 inches in diameter. I wanted to drop it right in line with the picnic table in the background. Using the lines, it actually worked. It's amazing what we don't know, till we know!


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## Nealm66 (Dec 1, 2020)

That’s awesome. There’s a billion things I take for granted after grinding trees down so many years. It feels good to be able to help and share some tricks and safety habits.


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## 64IMPALA (Dec 2, 2020)

MoDoug -

If I can make a comment on your felling...  Don't make your backcut at an angle like you have on your pics... It puts the hinge wood in shear instead of compression and can cause the hinge to fail, resulting in a uncontrolled drop.   Highly recommend a book called "to fell a tree"  they go extensively into why not to do angled back cuts...


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

Hmm, never heard that before. A lot of old timers would fall little trees like that because they’re bodies didn’t like to bend over. Amazingly accurate too! Problem with them is if you land a big pumpkin on top of them it would split them like a cedar rail. You can spot that white wood in the fell and bucked from a loooong ways off. Better get some branches and cover it up! Ha ha. Thing about your stump is to try and level it up to make it look pretty, don’t go so deep, come up from the bottom with your angle on your face ( make a smile) and clean it out( you left a kicker)


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

I will say if part of your back cut is lower and the other side is even ,or higher ,by a couple inches or more, the low side will pull harder, it works kinda like a Dunbar, which is a vertical slice ath the edge of the undercut. This isn’t something that works on a tree here or there, it’s a semi common practice if you’re cutting in a strip where you have a feel of how well the hinge wood is holding. Not something I would recommend in a tree here or there scenario but it doesn’t hurt anything if your just interested to see how it works.Not sure if there’s another name for it, just what we called it. It basically allows the hinge to move instead of breaking like styrofoam.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

Cleaning out the little kickers is a lot harder when the second cut is out of the log instead of the stump. Having it out of the stump also gives the tree something to push off of when your falling it through other trees and helps  keep the buttfrom coming back. Also helps to have the back cut above the undercut to create a lip. These things become very important when topping trees throu other trees


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## Zack R (Dec 2, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of folks making undercuts with the angled part coming down . Can’t remember if that’s called a humbolt or siginaw. The forest circus and the state all require the angle coming up from the stump which supposedly doesn’t waist any wood from the log. I find it a lot more difficult cleaning my undercut if I’m trying to work on the top cut. With the undercut coming out of the stump it’s very easy working on the bottom cut. Not sure why people do the top cut thing or if they just haven’t tried the other. Like everything, there’s a little bit to get used to but way easier once it’s learned



Interesting you mentioned this. I'm new to felling trees (3 years) for firewood and I've found that the Humboldt undercut has been the easiest/safest option for me. For the face cut I start with a level cut, sighting the saw with the handle in the proper direction, then using the felling dogs to make the bottom cut meet up cleanly with the top cut. Once the face cut is clean I start on the back cut, tap a wedge in once the bar goes in and always leave plenty of hinge. More often than not I'll tap the wedge to initiate the fall vs pushing the saw further into the hinge. Thus far the biggest tree I've taken down is a ~120' tall standing dead ponderosa pine, ~26" diameter, using my Husqvarna 365 Special and a 20" bar. 

I really enjoy learning new things from folks like yourself on the forum. Thanks again for all of the first hand experience.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

I know some people have trouble getting a wide face but it’s ok to angle down a little with the top/first cut if a wider face is desired


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

Zack R said:


> Interesting you mentioned this. I'm new to felling trees (3 years) for firewood and I've found that the Humboldt undercut has been the easiest/safest option for me. For the face cut I start with a level cut, sighting the saw with the handle in the proper direction, then using the felling dogs to make the bottom cut meet up cleanly with the top cut. Once the face cut is clean I start on the back cut, tap a wedge in once the bar goes in and always leave plenty of hinge. More often than not I'll tap the wedge to initiate the fall vs pushing the saw further into the hinge. Thus far the biggest tree I've taken down is a ~120' tall standing dead ponderosa pine, ~26" diameter, using my Husqvarna 365 Special and a 20" bar.
> 
> I really enjoy learning new things from folks like yourself on the forum. Thanks again for all of the first hand experience.



Hoping to get a minute to watch the video ( at work today) is that you in the video?


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## 64IMPALA (Dec 2, 2020)

If you'd like to see one of the best tree dropping tutorials, check out Guilty by Treeson on youtube.  I am not affiliated with them in any way.  They go into the different types of notches (humbolt, standard face etc) and the advantages/disadvantages of each.  Very detailed.

Talking about face notches, the face notch in the above pictures is WAY to deep into the tree.  The face notch should only be about 80% of the diameter of the tree.  This is a lot shallower than people think.   The face notch should be as level as possible.  Angling the corner of the face notch off of level (where the top cut/bottom cut intersect) changes the way the hinge is going to function and where the tree is going to land. The back cut should be roughly 1" above the corner of the face cut and should be no closer than 1" behind the corner.  There are exceptions to this obviously, but these are good rules of thumb.  The back cut should always be level, never at an angle as I mentioned above.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

I’d like to say also that a person never stops learning in the tree cutting industry and I hope I’m not making feel uncomfortable about posting they’re knowledge


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## Zack R (Dec 2, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Hoping to get a minute to watch the video ( at work today) is that you in the video?



Its definitely not me... its from the BC Faller training series which is really useful for folks to learn from.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

64IMPALA said:


> If you'd like to see one of the best tree dropping tutorials, check out Guilty by Treeson on youtube.  I am not affiliated with them in any way.  They go into the different types of notches (humbolt, standard face etc) and the advantages/disadvantages of each.  Very detailed.
> 
> Talking about face notches, the face notch in the above pictures is WAY to deep into the tree.  The face notch should only be about 80% of the diameter of the tree.  This is a lot shallower than people think.   The face notch should be as level as possible.  Angling the corner of the face notch off of level (where the top cut/bottom cut intersect) changes the way the hinge is going to function and where the tree is going to land. The back cut should be roughly 1" above the corner of the face cut and should be no closer than 1" behind the corner.  There are exceptions to this obviously, but these are good rules of thumb.  The back cut should always be level, never at an angle as I mentioned above.


I think there’s some good safety things behind a lot of that. But if I’m being honest, there’s a lot to learn by grabbing a saw and seeing for yourself. An angled undercut, if the hinge wood completely breaks as it’s leaving the stump will allow the butt to slide off to the low side and make the top go the opposite direction a little bit. Give it a try and see. We used this a lot in certain situations


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## MoDoug (Dec 2, 2020)

64IMPALA said:


> MoDoug -
> 
> If I can make a comment on your felling...  Don't make your backcut at an angle like you have on your pics... It puts the hinge wood in shear instead of compression and can cause the hinge to fail, resulting in a uncontrolled drop.   Highly recommend a book called "to fell a tree"  they go extensively into why not to do angled back cuts...



I don't mind comments like yours at all, I appreciate it. I'm a work in progress.  I wasn't happy with my undercut, my lower cut is angled down, and my undercut overall is way too deep, it's about half way into the diameter of the tree. I misjudged my second cut, it didn't meet my first cut, so I cut deeper. Like I said I appreciate any and all tips. I can hack my way through cutting down a tree (pun not intended), but I prefer to do it the proper way. I'll have to check out the book and read up on back cuts.


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## MoDoug (Dec 2, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Hmm, never heard that before. A lot of old timers would fall little trees like that because they’re bodies didn’t like to bend over. Amazingly accurate too! Problem with them is if you land a big pumpkin on top of them it would split them like a cedar rail. You can spot that white wood in the fell and bucked from a loooong ways off. Better get some branches and cover it up! Ha ha. Thing about your stump is to try and level it up to make it look pretty, don’t go so deep, come up from the bottom with your angle on your face ( make a smile) and clean it out( you left a kicker)



I'll have to try work on my smile, coming up on the undercut!  I didn't want to go so deep on my undercut, but my two lower cuts didn't line up, so I cut deeper, that's also why the kicker. I should have cleaned the kicker out. I'm cutting in a Corps of Engineers campground and I have to leave the stump no higher than 6 inches (their rules), so I do my felling cuts about 20 inches higher, then do the stump before I leave. I'm sure I could be more economical with my cuts. I need to start writing all these tips down, and approach it more methodically, old habits can be hard to break when you're in the field.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

I get the old habit thing for sure,! Try aiming with both cuts, if your undercut falls out before it meets your aim point, re slice to fix. That would be called a Dutchman or a swing cut. Not what you want in that scenario. If you meet your aiming point and the undercut doesn’t drop out give it a wack with your ax. In big trees it’s fairly common to mismatch, not always popping out with a rap from an ax. In this case, face the undercut and bore a vertical and essentially cut your undercut in half. Then drive a wedge in and it all pop the close side out. Then wack the other side out or bore again!


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## Nealm66 (Dec 2, 2020)

Here’s a trick. If you loose or break your ax and you need to wedge something, cut yourself a hammer. Find where a limb comes off about a 3-4 inch trunk, slice the limb above 3’ and slice the trunk about 3-4 inches out on both sides = hammer. Then find a limb or top ( limbs work the best) preferably sticking off the ground and slice a wedge out of it. Make it nice and fat on the pound side. I’ve made it through all day numerous times through the years having to do this. Don’t try to use plastic wedge, hammer just splits. Harder wood species work best!


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## 64IMPALA (Dec 3, 2020)

Nelm66 -  Totally agree with this.  The info I posted are what I call overall rules of thumb.  You can do a lot a tree steering with how you angle the face cut and the configuration of the hinge wood.  However, I would consider those to be "advance" felling techniques and probably not applicable to the average person who drops an occasional tree.

While there is something to be said about grabbing a saw and learning in the field,  dropping trees is a hazardous endeavor and if you are just doing trial and error, without some understanding of why you are making a certain cut, bad things can happen.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 3, 2020)

64IMPALA said:


> Nelm66 -  Totally agree with this.  The info I posted are what I call overall rules of thumb.  You can do a lot a tree steering with how you angle the face cut and the configuration of the hinge wood.  However, I would consider those to be "advance" felling techniques and probably not applicable to the average person who drops an occasional tree.
> 
> While there is something to be said about grabbing a saw and learning in the field,  dropping trees is a hazardous endeavor and if you are just doing trial and error, without some understanding of why you are making a certain cut, bad things can happen.


Yes, my apologies if some things I say are dangerous. I guess I just saw something that wasn’t true and was trying to bring light to it thinking that bringing out the real truth might be better/safer. I’m still pretty clumsy when it comes to this Internet forum stuff and trying not to ruffle feathers. I’ve learned a heck of a lot about wood/pellet  stoves , chimneys and draft. I guess I was just trying to re pay with some things I’ve learned. I’ll keep clam and only speak if spoken to and just suck up the knowledge.


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## andym (Dec 3, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> I’ll keep clam and only speak if spoken to and just suck up the knowledge.


You have been spoken to.....now keep the tips and stories coming! Anyone who tries every thing they read online will wind up dead, in the ER, or in jail anyway.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 3, 2020)

andym said:


> You have been spoken to.....now keep the tips and stories coming! Anyone who tries every thing they read online will wind up dead, in the ER, or in jail anyway.


Sounds good, I was having fun sharing experiences. Definitely don’t want anybody though so take everything I say with a grain of caution


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## Nealm66 (Dec 3, 2020)

Here’s a tip. If you throw a chain and it creates a burr on your driver so that it doesn’t want to ride in the rail and won’t even spin on the bar, loosen the chain to a point where you would never operate it, like hanging down an inch. Then rev up the saw and get it spinning fast and free. Tighten the chain back up and your good to go


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

Here’s a safety tip. It’s a good idea to keep some danger ribbon with you if you’re cutting some trees in the woods. If you happen to make a trap ( tree stuck in another tree) and have to leave it for any reason or any similar type situation, you can use the ribbon to ward off any onlookers


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

Which leads me to this, if you oops and make yourself a nasty trap, when chunking it down from the bottom, make undercuts that will steer the butt away from the tree it’s stuck in. This will help keep you a more safe than walking it straight into the tree. Crippling a cut and pulling it to break with a come along or rope can help keep you in the clear as well


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Which leads me to this, if you oops and make yourself a nasty trap, when chunking it down from the bottom, make undercuts that will steer the butt away from the tree it’s stuck in. This will help keep you a more safe than walking it straight into the tree. Crippling a cut and pulling it to break with a come along or rope can help keep you in the clear as well


I'm in the middle of one of these right now.  Monster ash caught in a pignut hickory.  Has me pretty nervous cutting at it.  Last time I cut at it, I didn't go all the way through and I'm hoping the wind will knock it down while Im no where near.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

walhondingnashua said:


> I'm in the middle of one of these right now.  Monster ash caught in a pignut hickory.  Has me pretty nervous cutting at it.  Last time I cut at it, I didn't go all the way through and I'm hoping the wind will knock it down while Im no where near.


Yup, dangerous situation. Did you understand what I was trying to say? Basically and undercut and a back cut that would allow you to use a come along from a safe spot to the side. This will pull the butt off to the side and helps release the tree .


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

Yes its good description.  Ive worked at it twice now with the come along and chunking it down.  Its just a bad hang up.  It will come eventually and I just want to make sure i'm not hurt doing it lol.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

Definitely been in some precarious situations. One of the disadvantages of being highly skilled in the industry is that you will get the most dangerous strips. Yaay


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

And old Mother Nature can build some wicked nightmares


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Definitely been in some precarious situations. One of the disadvantages of being highly skilled in the industry is that you will get the most dangerous strips. Yaay


Funny, because I am the guy in the family that cuts trees, I am the one everyone expects to do all the dangerous and risky stuff at their house for them lol.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

I totally get that. I’ve gotten to a point where I will refer jobs out that require a lot of spider man. 3 surgeries on one knee, one on the other and both rotor cups are torn. I keep doing it here and there to help people out and to keep my joints from freezing up . I notice my forearms are the weakest link being out of shape my hands cramp and can’t open them on a bigger tree. Not a great weekend sport ha ha. Definitely be careful with a trap. Remember too, a block strapped to the tree will double your pull. Always use cable straps and you can use up to 7 blocks. It will succumb to your will


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

It amazes me how small of a branch that a tree can get hung up on as well.  I dropped it that direction because it was the only option.  The only this holding it is a 4" little elbow in a pignut hickory tree.  It just won't let go.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

Post some pics , maybe we can help come up with some safe wizardry


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

For instance, never under estimate the tree chopping power on a 4 inch limb with a 12 gauge and a good quality 6 pack of beer on the 4th of July


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

It's the one big "Y" in the middle.  My last chunk gave way last night so its come down 8 or 9 feet.  Its standing pretty much straight up and down again but I think the "Y" is low enough now that I can get my throw bag and rope through it.  I might be able to get the kubota attached now and tug until it comes down... from a safe distance lol.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

I see it, yup, that’s a good example of where getting the butt to drop each time to the side will almost always spit them out. It’s a lot less dangerous to because the butt drops away from you as your making the cut


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 4, 2020)

Actually my intention was to do what you mention.  I cut it to kick out away from me and to the side.  I guess it was a futile attempt because it just broke and went straight down lol.  Just another one to learn from.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

Well hopefully you never get enough practice to perfect it ha ha,


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## Nealm66 (Dec 4, 2020)

I’ve had to trip a lot of trees with a tree blown into it causing a lot of pressure and it sucks. Especially with hardwoods on steeper ground. I remember cutting a unit for Weyerhaeuser after an ice storm that looked like a bomb went off. About a month of that really got to a guy


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## walhondingnashua (Dec 5, 2020)

Got it down today.  Rope made it up into the Y and pulled it down with a tractor.  Still help on pretty good.  She's all bucked up and waiting by the woodshed to be split.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 5, 2020)

I’m running out of relevant tips!  And my brain is numb from the work week ( my Friday!) Only thing I can think of at the moment is about a never ending tree job I starte last winter. It’s for a friend of my nephews and the house is surrounded by trees. Some hardwoods, some conifers. Power lines, bla bla bla.. I was thinking of something I learned many years ago from the guy that got me into the industry. So here it is, hope this makes sense. If you are pulling a hardwood back from its lean, there’s two things to consider. A low purchase looses leverage but gains speed. A high purchase gains leverage but looses speed. This becomes important when the hardwood cannot veer left or right from the straight back pull as the tree will lift back and follow it’s side lean if the winch can’t keep up. Another problem pulling hardwoods is barber chair. To eliminate this issue, there is no back cut. You pull back enough to know you have enough pull but not so much you can’t undercut, then undercut and pull it over letting it rip the back wood. This is the best practice I have found for a fail safe practice


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## Nealm66 (Dec 5, 2020)

There are also occasions when I will pull from two directions


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## CatfishHunter (Dec 8, 2020)

New guy here. Old hand with the saw.

When I get a widowmaker, I grab my 6 ton mining come along. It is great for slowly pulling the base out and allowing the tree to fall as desired. If I am in a more remote area though, definitely chunk it down to the sides. 

Glad to hear that that tree made it down safely.


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## Grizzerbear (Dec 8, 2020)

This thread would be good as a sticky link up top. Lots of good insight.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 8, 2020)

Grizzerbear said:


> This thread would be good as a sticky link up top. Lots of good insight.
> [/QUOTE Sorry,I should google, but what’s a sticky link and with that I’m guessing there are already some on this forum, how do I get to them?


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## CatfishHunter (Dec 8, 2020)

Sticky links are a northern delicacy combining pine sap and sausage links. Quite tasty...

Sorry, couldn't resist! They are internet threads that many people should read, so they are "stuck" at the top of the forum page so that one doesn't have to search endlessly to find the thread again.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 8, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> Sticky links are a northern delicacy combining pine sap and sausage links. Quite tasty...
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist! They are internet threads that many people should read, so they are "stuck" at the top of the forum page so that one doesn't have to search endlessly to find the thread again.


Lol, that’s awesome


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## Grizzerbear (Dec 8, 2020)

In the top of the wood shed thread list there are links for random useful info pertaining to wood gathering and so on. Tick bites and lyme disease, show us your wood shed and cord calculator are a few of them.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 8, 2020)

Grizzerbear said:


> In the top of the wood shed thread list there are links for random useful info pertaining to wood gathering and so on. Tick bites and lyme disease, show us your wood shed and cord calculator are a few of them.


Thank you!


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## Grizzerbear (Dec 8, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> Sticky links are a northern delicacy combining pine sap and sausage links. Quite tasty...



Lol too funny


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## johneh (Dec 9, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> Sticky links are a northern delicacy combining pine sap and sausage links. Quite tasty...


We quit using pine gum too hard to get off the teeth found maple syrup better
also works to hold up sticky notes


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## Nealm66 (Dec 9, 2020)

Here’s a tale, one time I had to go up on a weekend and finish a short chunk of right of way because we were starting a logging unit on Monday. Right of way cutting is where they are building new roads and need the trees cut so they can pioneer in. I was about 1 mile in and I was running a little 046 and a clutch spring broke.Tipical for this model of saw so I had spare clutch springs in my pack. Problem was , right where it happened was where a mountain lion had been dragging his kill and it stunk like cat. I’ve never ran into anything like that before but I’d heard a lot of stories about those big cats watching cutters from very close distances and many other weird stories so I was in a pickle. On one hand I’m a mile in chopping trees down by myself ( big no no! ) and my chain was spinning at an idle , the other hand, this cat sign was raising the hair on the back of my neck and my only protection is my chainsaw. I finally stopped and put a new spring on but I didn’t dilly dally. Never did see the cat, probably should have grabbed one of the deer antlers.


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## CatfishHunter (Dec 9, 2020)

Good story. The bears and wolves of the Midwest never scare me, but a big cat would definitely put the scare in me. 

Back in the day, my wife and I had one old snowmobile. It's five miles to our cabin and we had brought friends with us. We put my wife on the snowmobile who pulled the gear sled to our place and started the fire. This couple and I walked in by snowshoe. We got to our place during the twilight. My wife walked halfway down the stairs to greet us. As we all stood there, catching our breath and facing her/the cabin, my wife calmly told us all to look behind us. Down at the lake, a pack of five or six wolves was following our trail. They got to the dock and paused, looking up at us and then nose back to the snowy tracks. After a minute of contemplating, they blazed their own trail further down the lake shore.

That was a cool way to kick off the weekend. I insisted upon a snowy bonfire that night so that we could sit out and listen to the howls. Fun times.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 9, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> Good story. The bears and wolves of the Midwest never scare me, but a big cat would definitely put the scare in me.
> 
> Back in the day, my wife and I had one old snowmobile. It's five miles to our cabin and we had brought friends with us. We put my wife on the snowmobile who pulled the gear sled to our place and started the fire. This couple and I walked in by snowshoe. We got to our place during the twilight. My wife walked halfway down the stairs to greet us. As we all stood there, catching our breath and facing her/the cabin, my wife calmly told us all to look behind us. Down at the lake, a pack of five or six wolves was following our trail. They got to the dock and paused, looking up at us and then nose back to the snowy tracks. After a minute of contemplating, they blazed their own trail further down the lake shore.
> 
> That was a cool way to kick off the weekend. I insisted upon a snowy bonfire that night so that we could sit out and listen to the howls. Fun times.


That would freak me out


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## MoDoug (Dec 9, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> Here’s a tale, one time I had to go up on a weekend and finish a short chunk of right of way because we were starting a logging unit on Monday. Right of way cutting is where they are building new roads and need the trees cut so they can pioneer in. I was about 1 mile in and I was running a little 046 and a clutch spring broke.Tipical for this model of saw so I had spare clutch springs in my pack. Problem was , right where it happened was where a mountain lion had been dragging his kill and it stunk like cat. I’ve never ran into anything like that before but I’d heard a lot of stories about those big cats watching cutters from very close distances and many other weird stories so I was in a pickle. On one hand I’m a mile in chopping trees down by myself ( big no no! ) and my chain was spinning at an idle , the other hand, this cat sign was raising the hair on the back of my neck and my only protection is my chainsaw. I finally stopped and put a new spring on but I didn’t dilly dally. Never did see the cat, probably should have grabbed one of the deer antlers.



It's probably best to not be traveling through mountain lion country with antlers! Deer love venison! LOL


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## MoDoug (Dec 9, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> Good story. The bears and wolves of the Midwest never scare me, but a big cat would definitely put the scare in me.
> 
> Back in the day, my wife and I had one old snowmobile. It's five miles to our cabin and we had brought friends with us. We put my wife on the snowmobile who pulled the gear sled to our place and started the fire. This couple and I walked in by snowshoe. We got to our place during the twilight. My wife walked halfway down the stairs to greet us. As we all stood there, catching our breath and facing her/the cabin, my wife calmly told us all to look behind us. Down at the lake, a pack of five or six wolves was following our trail. They got to the dock and paused, looking up at us and then nose back to the snowy tracks. After a minute of contemplating, they blazed their own trail further down the lake shore.
> 
> That was a cool way to kick off the weekend. I insisted upon a snowy bonfire that night so that we could sit out and listen to the howls. Fun times.



That moment when you realize you were being tracked by a pack of wolves! Yikes! I love listening to the forest at night, the owls and coyotes. Love it when the Barred owls start in with each other, I had a screech owl scare the heck out of me a couple times.


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## CatfishHunter (Dec 9, 2020)

This spring I heard a Hermit Thrush for the first time. Beautiful call and very distinct. I kept mentioning it to my wife and daughter, but like Mr. Snuffleupagus (had to look up the spelling), it never would sing when they were around. They thought I was making it up....

Later in the summer, my daughter and I spent a week up there together. I was cleaning walleye out back when I heard the hermit thrush sing. I called my daughter outside, who stood on the back porch and listened. She heard it for a moment before a barred owl in a tree near us hooted loudly. She screamed -- thinking it was a wolf -- and ran into the cabin. The screen door slammed which scared the owl, causing it to abruptly take off from the tree. It left in such a hurry that with a loud crack, it broke the 2" branch it had been perched upon. I stood for a few seconds listening to the woosh of wind created by its wings.

Oh man did we laugh about that. Owls are great.


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## Nealm66 (Dec 9, 2020)

A guy I subcontracted for off and on came over to my strip one day, said he was in a pickle and wanted to show me . We were cutting in some big timber that was running about 4’ and 160ish tall. These have to all be laid into lead -nothing can cross or it’s carnage. He showed me a bees nest up about 20’ in the air, big paper nest full of yellow jackets. If he fell it, he would have them to contend with. Couldn’t fall anything else because he couldn’t cross lead. There was only about 30 minutes before quitting time. He was asking me what he should do. I grabbed a big long limb and he took off running calling me a crazy bleep bleep. I swatted that thing off and was immediately getting stung.  I ran like crazy and caught up to him about 70-80 yards away in the timber. He was still fussing at me. Then, here they came. Only ever saw wild honey bees track a guy down like those particular angry yellow jackets. I got stung countless times and he ended up without any but was still just flabbergasted at me


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## CatfishHunter (Dec 9, 2020)

Nealm66 said:


> I got stung countless times and he ended up without any but was still just flabbergasted at me


You got the job done and came out of it with a good story to boot!


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## Nealm66 (Dec 9, 2020)

CatfishHunter said:


> You got the job done and came out of it with a good story to boot!


Totally worth it lol


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## MoDoug (Dec 10, 2020)

64IMPALA said:


> Don't make your backcut at an angle like you have on your pics... It puts the hinge wood in shear instead of compression and can cause the hinge to fail, resulting in a uncontrolled drop.





Nealm66 said:


> Thing about your stump is to try and level it up to make it look pretty, don’t go so deep, come up from the bottom with your angle on your face ( make a smile) and clean it out( you left a kicker)



Finally had a chance to drop a tree since the above advice. I did reasonably good, the level back cut worked out well, the smile turned out looking more like I'm about to take a pill. LOL  I'm still working on having a nice clean undercut, where the two cuts cleanly meet. Still had a kicker. At least the tree dropped right where I wanted it to when it hit the ground, then it rolled slightly off target when it landed on a branch. It dropped so slowly I had time to take a picture before it hit the ground. Progress!


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## Nealm66 (Dec 10, 2020)

MoDoug said:


> Finally had a chance to drop a tree since the above advice. I did reasonably good, the level back cut worked out well, the smile turned out looking more like I'm about to take a pill. LOL  I'm still working on having a nice clean undercut, where the two cuts cleanly meet. Still had a kicker. At least the tree dropped right where I wanted it to when it hit the ground, then it rolled slightly off target when it landed on a branch. It dropped so slowly I had time to take a picture before it hit the ground. Progress!


Very nice!


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## Nealm66 (Dec 10, 2020)

I hadn’t given it much thought but someone mentioned falling dawgs. They might help a bit. Your stump looks very safe though! Every cut you make can be aimed when falling. If possible, keep trying to get a deeper angle from underneath. It might seem difficult at first but it will eventually give you another level of control. Remember too, you might get a barber chair with the face being shallow like that on a hardwood. Just try to keep it wide  enough that it doesn’t close before it hits the ground. Looks good though!


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## Nealm66 (Jun 20, 2021)

Been a long time but I dug this thread up because of a job I have tomorrow and this is a kind of a simple but neat trick. I have a bunch of bigger fir trees to cut down, some are dead, the usual wait till they’re completely wicked before you call. Anyways, there’s a cluster of 4 that have room to fall but nothing to tail hold to pull from and if you use a pickup or tractor, you’re trapped until cleaned up. And of course the last of the 4 is very limb heavy and leaning the wrong way so not possible to wedge or pull with rope by hand. So, trick = fall the easy first three and try to stack them. Then go out far enough that makes sense and wrap all three with a strap and block and essentially creating what’s called a deadman for a tail hold to pull from. Hope that made sense ha ha.


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## Rusty18 (Jun 20, 2021)

Nealm66 said:


> Been a long time but I dug this thread up because of a job I have tomorrow and this is a kind of a simple but neat trick. I have a bunch of bigger fir trees to cut down, some are dead, the usual wait till they’re completely wicked before you call. Anyways, there’s a cluster of 4 that have room to fall but nothing to tail hold to pull from and if you use a pickup or tractor, you’re trapped until cleaned up. And of course the last of the 4 is very limb heavy and leaning the wrong way so not possible to wedge or pull with rope by hand. So, trick = fall the easy first three and try to stack them. Then go out far enough that makes sense and wrap all three with a strap and block and essentially creating what’s called a deadman for a tail hold to pull from. Hope that made sense ha ha.


I never would have thought of that but it’s obvious now.  I’m sure that trick will make me look like a genius some day


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## SpaceBus (Jun 21, 2021)

That's a neat trick, I'll have to remember it.


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## MoDoug (Jun 22, 2021)

Nealm66 said:


> Been a long time but I dug this thread up because of a job I have tomorrow and this is a kind of a simple but neat trick. I have a bunch of bigger fir trees to cut down, some are dead, the usual wait till they’re completely wicked before you call. Anyways, there’s a cluster of 4 that have room to fall but nothing to tail hold to pull from and if you use a pickup or tractor, you’re trapped until cleaned up. And of course the last of the 4 is very limb heavy and leaning the wrong way so not possible to wedge or pull with rope by hand. So, trick = fall the easy first three and try to stack them. Then go out far enough that makes sense and wrap all three with a strap and block and essentially creating what’s called a deadman for a tail hold to pull from. Hope that made sense ha ha.


So, how'd it go? Did you take any videos or pictures?


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## Nealm66 (Jun 22, 2021)

Everything went as planned except I had to delay 5 trees till next Monday on account of my back went to crap lol. Sorry no pictures, unless the folks I was cutting the trees down for took some. Pretty tough to do selfie’s and run a saw. The ones that are left are relatively boring even though there’s houses highway and power lines in the mix. One of the dead ones left comes out of the ground all crooked and would be better left for the more experienced but I’m going to make it look boring. I guess I could ask them to take a couple pics if I remember. Sorry about that


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## Nealm66 (Jun 22, 2021)

Man, I wouldn’t mind having one of the dead snags for firewood . It’s maybe 30” and 120’ ish . There were a couple green ones that would have made some beautiful lumber that went into 16” pieces as well


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## Nealm66 (Jun 22, 2021)

Oh ya, something really crazy. This guy is one of those type that doesn’t sit idle and has one of those little kabota tractors with the backhoe you always see on sale that he uses for gold mining and landscaping etc. anyways, it has 20,000 hours on it and it only 5 years old  He took it in for a cylinder problem and they freaked out lol . Now that might be worth some pics !!


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## ClintonH (Jun 23, 2021)

Nealm66 said:


> Oh ya, something really crazy. This guy is one of those type that doesn’t sit idle and has one of those little kabota tractors with the backhoe you always see on sale that he uses for gold mining and landscaping etc. anyways, it has 20,000 hours on it and it only 5 years old  He took it in for a cylinder problem and they freaked out lol . Now that might be worth some pics !!


Holy smoke.  20,000/5years = 4,000 per year/52 weeks = almost 80 hours EVERY WEEK for 5 years?!?!?!


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## Nealm66 (Jun 23, 2021)

Lol, crazy. I’ll get some pics next Monday. He said the dealership freaked out and said they might not warranty because of the hours and said the motor was only designed forb18,000 which still seems like an insane amount for a little tractor


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## Rusty18 (Jun 23, 2021)

If you forget and leave the switch on a cub cadet mower on it will run the clock about 200 hours before the battery dies...or so a friend told me.


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## Corey (Jun 24, 2021)

ClintonH said:


> Holy smoke.  20,000/5years = 4,000 per year/52 weeks = almost 80 hours EVERY WEEK for 5 years?!?!?!



Maybe "Tall Tales" from the woods...


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## Nealm66 (Jun 24, 2021)

Well, he really didn’t have any reason to bs me. I’ll get some pics and you can believe it or not. Makes no difference difference to me


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## jetsam (Jul 1, 2021)

A lot of equipment that I use records power-on hours, travel hours, and deadman hours. Power-on hours can easily be 10x what travel hours are for a lot of those machines.


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## clancey (Jul 1, 2021)

I have a tall tail my late husband shared with me when he was a young man and it seems they were chopping into a tree trunk and they hit a yellow jacket nest and they all started running back to the house some ways away and got in and shut all windows and doors and they got stung too on the way in but he said that those yellow jackets circled that house for hours and they just made it inside in time...clancey


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## Nealm66 (Jul 1, 2021)

Lol! Bees are a real challenge in the timber falling industry that’s for sure. Was kinda odd, had a job in the Tacoma watershed where the yellow jackets had ground nests everywhere on this one particular unit and they were ground nest and evidently the black bear will grub the larvae’s so these bees would explode out even walking by. We warned the rigging crew they were so bad. Well, weird but after they had been logging the first setting for a bit, we asked them how the bees were and they said they really hadn’t ran into any of them. No idea why they would have vacated just from the falling. Bees also make for a speedy climb down in resi work ha ha!  Job got delayed so no pics till the 13th. I’m not sure how the kabota hour meter works. My new Holland is adding any time the motor is running. Sales guy told me I should get around 10,000 hours if properly maintained. It’s a 33 horse. Considering I hardly use it, that will be a while.


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## jetsam (Jul 1, 2021)

I got stung in the face and neck probably 50 times last year.  Was digging a post hole and hit a nest of ground dwelling hornets. Mean little buggers!

I was pretty close to calling 911 when I got back to the house, couldn't tell if I was just having shock or anaphylaxis.  Took some benadryl and waited until I was sure my airway wasn't closing up before sleeping it off.

I normally don't use any poisons on my property, but I made an exception for that nest.


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## Nealm66 (Jul 1, 2021)

Them bees definitely take the macho out of a guy. We always started at daylight and 2 times I had them up my pant leg cutting the first tree down. Yaaay


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## Rusty18 (Jul 2, 2021)

Neighbor rubs dryer sheets all over,  leaves one stuffed in his belt on either side and one tucked under the back of his hat when mowing.  Swears the yellow jackets won’t come near him when he is wearing them.  
I have witnessed him mow over a nest and they were swarming, not sure if he’s on to something or just lucky.


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## Nealm66 (Jul 2, 2021)

Just reminded me of a guy I worked with for about 8 years wore those bug eye screen goggles and said the bees didn’t bother him because they thought he was the king bee lol


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## clancey (Jul 2, 2021)

ha ha----I bet at the time he was the "King Bee"...at least he thought he was...maybe still is....any mental change will help with those warrior insects and I say---"Run"...clancey


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## Nealm66 (Jul 2, 2021)

Lol, and squeal while you run. That’s how I do it


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## clancey (Jul 2, 2021)

ha ha --lol  Then I will squeal...like a piggy...and run faster...Fun thanks...clancey


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## weatherguy (Jul 2, 2021)

Nealm66 said:


> Well, he really didn’t have any reason to bs me. I’ll get some pics and you can believe it or not. Makes no difference difference to me


Gold fever


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## weatherguy (Jul 2, 2021)

jetsam said:


> I got stung in the face and neck probably 50 times last year.  Was digging a post hole and hit a nest of ground dwelling hornets. Mean little buggers!
> 
> I was pretty close to calling 911 when I got back to the house, couldn't tell if I was just having shock or anaphylaxis.  Took some benadryl and waited until I was sure my airway wasn't closing up before sleeping it off.
> 
> I normally don't use any poisons on my property, but I made an exception for that nest.


I was cleaning up a rock wall and was on my knees and picked up a big flat rock and there was a hornets nest underneath, fastest I ever ran in my life, I had a few up my sleeves.


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## Nealm66 (Jul 13, 2021)

Well, the kabota was a bust. I snuck over after I crashed the trees. About 650 hours on the meter. Maybe he was talking about something else cus I don’t get why he would bs about it. But , I took some picks of the trees just for any interested. The biggest was a beautiful snag. The crooked one was completely dead for some time. Guessing these were 110-120’. All chopped to 16”. Would have made some beautiful lumber


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## Nealm66 (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry for the lame pics. I felt kind weird just taking the ones I did


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## clancey (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry about the Kabota and the man told you so many more hours you could get with it....Those trees are shaped funny but you got some wood and the pictures are nice too--different...Pretty green...clancey


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