# RE: Honda or Subaru



## firefighterjake (Jul 15, 2013)

Come December my wife and I are hoping to get a new Subaru to replace her ten year old vehicle.

My question . . . I'm trying to decide which car to keep and which to sell . . . my Honda Accord with 174,000+ miles or her Subaru Outback with 117,000 miles. Both are 2003 models.

The Subaru has AWD. There are a couple of minor rust spots that need fixing. It rides a lot stiffer than the Accord and gets slightly less gas mileage.

The Honda though obviously has higher mileage and inside and outside is in rougher shape (thanks to more general wear and tear . . . that and a very hard snowbank that I plowed into thinking it was softer than it turned out to be.)

Honestly, I like the ride of the Accord better and keep thinking that selling the Subaru would net more money for the down payment . . . but then I wonder if this might be penny wise and pound foolish if the higher mileage vehicle were to crap out with some major issue in a year or so.

Thoughts?


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## USMC80 (Jul 15, 2013)

I have an old subaru outback I sometimes use.  She's going on 230k miles and will probably go to almost 300


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## Jags (Jul 15, 2013)

Ask your wife.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 15, 2013)

Jags said:


> Ask your wife.


 

Why? She is gonna get the new one.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 15, 2013)

My average time getting to drive a new car before she got it and I ended up with the old one was around a month.


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## heat seeker (Jul 15, 2013)

Trade in value for both will probably be next to nothing, anyway. Both seem to be reliable cars for you - go with the one you like more - sounds like the Accord. In my experience, once rust starts on a car, there seems to be no way to stop it for long.


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## homebrewz (Jul 15, 2013)

Probably keep the Subaru for those Maine winters, especially if you've had the famed headgasket repair done and you are satisfied with
the quality of the repair. If not, look up Subaru head gasket issues and start reading.

The plus side of your dilemma is that both makes are good at retaining their private party resale value.


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## Stegman (Jul 15, 2013)

I guess it depends on how much longer you plan to keep the surviving vehicle. If it's only a couple of years, keep the Honda. If it's more like 4-5 years, I think I'd keep the Subaru, despite the rust.


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## Ashful (Jul 15, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> My average time getting to drive a new car before she got it and I ended up with the old one was around a month.



I haven't driven a new car in 8 years.  My wife has had 3 in that time.


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## Swedishchef (Jul 15, 2013)

I am part of the Subaru cult so I will refrain from voting! However, AWD is nice in the state of Maine!

A


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## heat seeker (Jul 15, 2013)

Joful said:


> I haven't driven a new car in 8 years. My wife has had 3 in that time.


Hmmm - I've never had a new car. Too "thrifty" to buy one.


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## timfromohio (Jul 15, 2013)

If they both run well then don't buy anything and keep saving!


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## TMonter (Jul 15, 2013)

If you have to keep anything the AWD of the Subaru can't be beat in the wintertime. I quite often miss my 2.5TS Wagon we sold a few years back.


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## jebatty (Jul 16, 2013)

Best car is paid for and runs. I agree with those that say keep them both and enjoy the savings. We have Toyota Camry's and don't even start to think about replacement until about the 250,000 mile mark, and then the only reason is that we are bored with car after 10 years or so of ownership. Your cars are practically brand new, why change?


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## DevilsBrew (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm part of the Honda cult. They do have the smoothest ride, I love the interior dash layouts, and dang it, the cars last forever. It is going to be a tough choice for you. With the rough winters, I would have to go with the awd.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 16, 2013)

We're a Subaru family here. The handling in the snow is too good to pass up.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 16, 2013)

Random thoughts and responses . . .

I kindof figured I would get the "keep them both and keep on driving" responses . . . which honestly works for some folks . . . but my wife commutes 20-25 miles . . . often in middle of the night for her job . . . reliability is very important for us which means replacing the car when it reaches a certain age. Me . . . I don't mind driving a higher mileage or older car . . . although I do have a 66-mile round trip drive to work each day so reliability is a bit important for me as well. Hence the reason for replacing her car . . . my wife's main concern is that she doesn't want to have two car payments at the same time and doesn't want to be hit by a major auto repair bill in the next three or so years (we tend to put down a size-able down payment and then pay off the loans early).

Best advice perhaps . . . from Jags. What makes it really funny is that my wife at one point said to me a few days back, "I don't know why you bother asking me for advice as to which car to keep. You'll probably just post on that woodstove forum with your friends whom you've never met and then take their advice."

Heatseeker . . . Yes. Trade in values for both cars are not very high . . . the Honda is maybe $2-$3K lower than the Subaru based mainly on the mileage and condition.

HomeBrewz . . . . Oh yes. Very familiar with the infamous head gasket issue. We did that major fix last year . . . and changed out the water pump and other important parts at the same time. Perhaps this is another tick in the "Keep the Subaru" column since we did invest a bit of change on that repair.

Rust . . . if we keep the Subaru we plan to fix the small bits of rust . . . right now it's the size of a quarter with some paint bubbles next to it in the rear quarters above the tires.


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## Ashful (Jul 16, 2013)

DevilsBrew said:


> I'm part of the Honda cult. They do have the smoothest ride...


 


Adios Pantalones said:


> We're a Subaru family here. The handling in the snow is too good to pass up.


 

I think they both suck. Honda's handle with the responsiveness of a wet turd. Subaru is a definite step up in that department, but some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter, somehow thinking they're driving something akin to a BMW. Both are to be avoided!


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 16, 2013)

Joful said:


> I think they both suck. Honda's handle with the responsiveness of a wet turd. Subaru is a definite step up in that department, but some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter, somehow thinking they're driving something akin to a BMW. Both are to be avoided!


 
I don't have a suped up WRX, I have a stock Forester lesmobile that I periodically jam to the top with stuff for shows. I'm a fanatic because it does well in the snow, it's very reliable, and the mileage is decent for an AWD- I am definitely not one of those jackasses that thinks it's a sports car- I'm one of those boring guys looking for reliability as he cruises past middle-age 

(edit- here in NH, a Subaru is fairly standard equipment. Put me in the frugal Yankee category. The real jackasses here drive 4WD pickups, think they're invincible, and roll them into a ditch when we get 6" of snow. Pathetic)


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## Ashful (Jul 16, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> I have a stock Forester lesmobile... I'm one of those boring guys looking for reliability as he cruises past middle-age


 
Brilliant!


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## jebatty (Jul 16, 2013)

> ...but my wife commutes 20-25 miles . . . often in middle of the night for her job . . . reliability is very important for us which means replacing the car when it reaches a certain age.


 
This I understand, but what is there about either car that gives you cause for concern? You likely know by the slightest sound, shake, vibration, or feel exactly how these cars really are. My wife communes 175 miles, rain, snow or shine, hot or cold, and we get all of this really good in northern MN. Her '05 is closing in on 180,000, and at 20,000 miles per year, we figure at least another 6-7 years for this car.



> ...doesn't want to be hit by a major auto repair bill in the next three or so years ...


 
I figure, other than normal maintenance, an older car should have a repair budget of $100/month. That has never done us wrong. That said, neither our '05 (180,000 miles) or '07 (130,000 miles) has ever yet needed anything other than normal maintenance.

No intent to talk you out of what I think you already have decided. Make your choice and move on - you're not likely to be disappointed.


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## maple1 (Jul 16, 2013)

It's not an Accord, but our 2006 Civic is approaching 330,000 kms. It has had the rear brakes done once, a wheel bearing replaced, and one broken exhaust pipe repaired.

Just replace the tires when they wear out & change the oil every 10-12,000 kms when it tells you to.

It's used by my wife for daily 180km round trip work commute, plus a ton of other stuff. No plans to replace it anytime soon.

It doesnt suck, & it will be very hard for us to justify getting anything different when the time comes.


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## Grisu (Jul 16, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> Hence the reason for replacing her car . . . my wife's main concern is that she doesn't want to have two car payments at the same time and doesn't want to be hit by a major auto repair bill in the next three or so years (we tend to put down a size-able down payment and then pay off the loans early).


 
No offense meant against your wife but that sounds a bit pennywise but pound-foolish. If you have the money put aside why are you sweating a major repair bill? And how can a "maybe" repair bill be more of a money issue than a certain down-payment and monthly car loan payments? If you have a $200 loan payment per month that's $2400 in one year. That is probably the same or even more than what you would consider a "major repair bill". Plus, you are out of the downpayment (plus interest!) and you will need to carry higher insurance. 

You both seem like prudent savers who don't spend more than they need to. As long as you take care of your cars and they are running without an issue you can put the money aside and probably save some even when one car needs to go to the shop. I am not sure how far out you are living but if a car breaks down one cab ride will still be cheaper than the lost value of a new car within one month.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jul 16, 2013)

Grisu said:


> No offense meant against your wife but that sounds a bit pennywise but pound-foolish. If you have the money put aside why are you sweating a major repair bill? And how can a "maybe" repair bill be more of a money issue than a certain down-payment and monthly car loan payments? If you have a $200 loan payment per month that's $2400 in one year. That is probably the same or even more than what you would consider a "major repair bill". Plus, you are out of the downpayment (plus interest!) and you will need to carry higher insurance.
> 
> You both seem like prudent savers who don't spend more than they need to. As long as you take care of your cars and they are running without an issue you can put the money aside and probably save some even when one car needs to go to the shop. I am not sure how far out you are living but if a car breaks down one cab ride will still be cheaper than the lost value of a new car within one month.


 
If I was a woman with that commute, or my wife had that commute,  and an increased risk of breaking down, I'd go for a more reliable car as well.  Add to that- eventually you have tires, exhaust, suspension- add them up and they look like car payment bills. You're better off driving a good car for similar money.


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## TMonter (Jul 16, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> If I was a woman with that commute, or my wife had that commute, and an increased risk of breaking down, I'd go for a more reliable car as well. Add to that- eventually you have tires, exhaust, suspension- add them up and they look like car payment bills. You're better off driving a good car for similar money.


 
I think it all depends on how you feel about the car reliability among other factors of a new car being useful.

Last year I bought a newer Toyota Corolla to replace my aging one since my 1995 had 220k+ and was really starting to show it's age even though everything worked fine in it. I was putting sometimes ~1500 miles a week for work travel and getting stranded from an older car even though it was immaculately maintained was not a thought I relished. The old car got 3-5 MPG lower than my current one, had way more road noise, was using a quart every 1500 miles and certainly didn't have the horsepower of the new one to cruise at 75+ on all the mountain grades here in the PNW.

Overall between everything buying a newer car ended up being a good choice. Of course we paid cash for the new one since we had the money saved up.


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## TradEddie (Jul 16, 2013)

homebrewz said:


> Probably keep the Subaru for those Maine winters, especially if you've had the famed headgasket repair done and you are satisfied with the quality of the repair. *If not, look up Subaru head gasket issues and start reading*.


 
Sound advice there. If yours hasn't already gone, you're way overdue.

TE


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## firefighterjake (Jul 16, 2013)

Grisu said:


> No offense meant against your wife but that sounds a bit pennywise but pound-foolish. If you have the money put aside why are you sweating a major repair bill? And how can a "maybe" repair bill be more of a money issue than a certain down-payment and monthly car loan payments? If you have a $200 loan payment per month that's $2400 in one year. That is probably the same or even more than what you would consider a "major repair bill". Plus, you are out of the downpayment (plus interest!) and you will need to carry higher insurance.
> 
> You both seem like prudent savers who don't spend more than they need to. As long as you take care of your cars and they are running without an issue you can put the money aside and probably save some even when one car needs to go to the shop. I am not sure how far out you are living but if a car breaks down one cab ride will still be cheaper than the lost value of a new car within one month.


 
HehHeh . . . nearest cab is a 20-25 mile trip from here. I can only imagine what the cab bill would be.

The issue is partly the bill for a possible major repair . . . but also the convenience aspect . . . and safety aspect. It's not such a big deal if my car strands me beside the road since I'm driving in daylight hours, but my wife is driving in to work around midnight. Knowing that the car will always get here there and back is important for her.

I hear you on the savings though for a repair vs. loan payment.

But to get back to the original question folks . . . keep the Subaru or keep the Honda?


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## firefighterjake (Jul 16, 2013)

Joful said:


> I think they both suck. Honda's handle with the responsiveness of a wet turd. Subaru is a definite step up in that department, but some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter, somehow thinking they're driving something akin to a BMW. Both are to be avoided!


 
I think it must be different here . . . lots of Subbie lovers here . . . especially teachers and healthcare workers for some reason . . . but lots of other folks just like the ability to drive a car and have AWD at a reasonable price.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 16, 2013)

TradEddie said:


> Sound advice there. If yours hasn't already gone, you're way overdue.
> 
> TE


 
See previous page . . . Random thoughts . . .

. . .

" HomeBrewz . . . . Oh yes. Very familiar with the infamous head gasket issue. We did that major fix last year . . . and changed out the water pump and other important parts at the same time. Perhaps this is another tick in the "Keep the Subaru" column since we did invest a bit of change on that repair. . ."


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## TradEddie (Jul 16, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> keep the Subaru or keep the Honda?


 
Although I no longer own a Subaru, I'd keep the Subaru. We put 145K on a '98 model with nothing whatsoever breaking down, 100K on a 2005 model when the head gasket started to leak, not catastrophic, but we took it as a sign. We weren't as happy with that one anyway, first of the new model year, lots of minor annoyances. If you've had the head gasket done already, I'd say its a no-brainer to keep the Subaru.

TE


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## Grisu (Jul 16, 2013)

firefighterjake said:


> HehHeh . . . nearest cab is a 20-25 mile trip from here. I can only imagine what the cab bill would be.


 
Even if it is $100, you lose more the moment you drive a new car from the dealers lot. I calculated I can take a cab easily 10 times a month to work and would come out ahead compared with owning a second car. Usually I carpool with my wife anyway. 



> The issue is partly the bill for a possible major repair . . . but also the convenience aspect . . . and safety aspect. It's not such a big deal if my car strands me beside the road since I'm driving in daylight hours, but my wife is driving in to work around midnight. Knowing that the car will always get here there and back is important for her.


 
Totally get that one; overlooked your previous post where you mentioned that. Nevertheless, also new cars especially with all the new electronics fail suddenly. I think an old, well-maintained car that you know in and out will be very close in reliability than a new one. Our Subbi is 15 years old and the only time I was stranded (at home) was due to a flat tire. Could have happened easily with a new car. We will probably buy a new car soon since our mechanic indicated that various parts are showing their age and will need to be replaced within one to two years.



> But to get back to the original question folks . . . keep the Subaru or keep the Honda?


 
Since you can usually put more miles on a Honda I have the feeling they are both pretty much at the same stage of their life expectancy. So I would weigh higher trade in value of the Subaru versus driving AWD in winter.


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## Ashful (Jul 16, 2013)

Grisu said:


> I think an old, well-maintained car that you know in and out will be very close in reliability than a new one.



You're free to think that, but history and statistics are not on your side!


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## DevilsBrew (Jul 16, 2013)

Joful said:


> I think they both suck. Honda's handle with the responsiveness of a wet turd. Subaru is a definite step up in that department, but some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter, somehow thinking they're driving something akin to a BMW. Both are to be avoided!


 
 Don't be shy.  Tell us how you really feel.     Ha!


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## Ashful (Jul 16, 2013)

Said tongue in cheek, guys!


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## jharkin (Jul 17, 2013)

If you think a Honda has the responsiveness of a wet turd, you might be driving the wrong ones? Sure Accords and Civic handle blah, but many of the Acura division cars - recent styling disaster aside - handle about as good as you can get within the limitations of the FWD platform. The SH-AWD cars are supposed to be amazing but I wont try one till they put it in something that isn't butt ugly. Honda manual gearboxes are some of the best in the business. And these days a V6 Accord is a sub 6s to 60 car (ie. quicker than the holy 328).

Subarus are not bad cars either but their manual gearboxes suck in comparison and that boxer engine, thought great for a low CG, is a real pain to work on. Interiors used to look about 10 years older than everybody else.

Neither car should rust much as they all galvanize the unibodies these days.

/Honda fanboy rant off.


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2013)

jharkin said:


> If you think a Honda has the responsiveness of a wet turd, you might be driving the wrong ones. Sure Accords and Civic handle blah, but...


 

The OP's Honda is an Accord with 174,000 miles.

FWIW, in the OP's shoes, I'd keep the old Subaru for myself. Get the wife a new car, and ditch the Accord. The Accord may have the lower projected cost of ownership, but at least the Sub is AWD.


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## begreen (Jul 17, 2013)

How does the new Outback ride? If it is nice then replace the Accord, especially if the Honda is coming due for timing belt+water pump.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Jul 17, 2013)

I would post them both on craigslist at retail value. Sell the one that sells first. the Honda may even go 500 or 1000 dollars over retail based on condition. cruise your local lots and try to find the same cars and see the asking price. You may well be surprised. the lots have very little used stock so anything under $10,000 is still selling even with mileage on them. I vote to keep the Honda! Cat. convertors are expensive on the Subaru and most likely will need soon since the head gasket went along with o2 sensors.


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## eclecticcottage (Jul 30, 2013)

My vote is for keeping the Subie.  It's got lower miles, AWD and it sounds like you've just done the big 100k maintainance stuff anyway.  It's probably got another 100k in it easily.


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## firefighterjake (Jul 30, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's opinions . . . right now I'm leaning towards keeping the Subaru . . . it will be less money up front and I don't particularly care for the ride compared to the Honda, but as many pointed out the advantages of not having to run my truck in the winter, less mileage on the odometer and general overall condition makes me think I could get at least another 75,000 miles on it.


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## brian89gp (Jul 30, 2013)

I'd keep both, or buy a 3rd cheap one for a spare, but of course I am thrifty.  Buy my cars for around $6k right around the 100k mark, drive them 100k-150k miles, then sell them for $4k.

Since break downs are not acceptable, I guess you got to stay ahead of the mileage game and get a new car.  I'd sell the Honda as it is looking off the resale value cliff and the Subaru has at least a few years till it gets to that point.  In the car shuffle game, selling at the right mileage to get the best return is as important as the deal you get on the next car.  In this area of the country 180k-190k is that magic point, same as 100k is, that people get squeamish about mileage.  Go over by just a little and value drops and if you hit 200k you might as well just keep driving it cause resale is not going to drop much more as long as it is still running.


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 4, 2013)

Joful said:


> Subaru is a definite step up in that department, but some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter, somehow thinking they're driving something akin to a BMW.


I'd rather have a WRX than a BMW (not to be annoying).


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## Ehouse (Aug 4, 2013)

We have a Honda CRV That replaced a Forrester.  I liked the Subaru better.  If you want to keep the Subaru, Have the frame checked out, our local mech. has condemned several high mileage ones lately that looked pretty good cosmetically.


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## NortheastAl (Aug 10, 2013)

We get some crappy winters in NY too. Keep the Honda and add Blizzaks or Michelin snows on all four wheel and don't worry about getting stuck. Learned my lesson with all season tires. The two accords and civic we've put them on are unstoppable in snow deeper than the underside of the chassis. Better gas mileage, ride and cheaper than an AWD vehicle. I've seen lots of AWD/4WD cars, SUVs and trucks with their headlights shining at me through the woods when they've slid off the interstate because they thought passenger tires work in winter. Glad I don't commute anymore, but still use snow tires on all 4 wheels. 

Sorry for the rant...


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## spirilis (Aug 10, 2013)

Tossing in my vote for Subaru for no good reason (haven't read the whole thread either!) besides the fact that I love my '08 Forester, it commands the snow like a boss and it hasn't needed any major repairs in the 130K miles I've owned it (yeah I know, it's barely a teenager).  An old friend convinced me when I saw how his Legacy handled the twisty mountain roads.  Something about the handling in those things, maybe it's the symmetry in the drivetrain or something, but it just feels rock solid negotiating mountain roads.

Then again you should already know this if you own one


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## MasterMech (Aug 10, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> I've seen lots of AWD/4WD cars, SUVs and trucks with their headlights shining at me through the woods when they've slid off the interstate because they thought passenger tires work in winter.


 
Something about snow changes me.  Kinda like the moon and wherewolves....   I have NEVER called out of work due to snow.  And I've been the only one there a couple times....   I used to deliver snowblowers in blizzard conditions in a 2WD Ford Pickup.  Yup, tires help, but it is ALL about the driver.  The equipment is only as good as the operator.


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## Grisu (Aug 10, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> We get some crappy winters in NY too. Keep the Honda and add Blizzaks or Michelin snows on all four wheel and don't worry about getting stuck. Learned my lesson with all season tires. The two accords and civic we've put them on are unstoppable in snow deeper than the underside of the chassis. Better gas mileage, ride and cheaper than an AWD vehicle. I've seen lots of AWD/4WD cars, SUVs and trucks with their headlights shining at me through the woods when they've slid off the interstate because they thought passenger tires work in winter. Glad I don't commute anymore, but still use snow tires on all 4 wheels.
> 
> Sorry for the rant...


 
So far the only all-weather tires I know that are good in snow are the Nokian WR. They are not cheap but handle snow and ice almost as well as dedicated winter tires. Given that I would not hesitate to put the Nokian Hakkepalittas on my car if I wanted real snows.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 10, 2013)

Grisu said:


> So far the only all-weather tires I know that are good in snow are the Nokian WR. They are not cheap but handle snow and ice almost as well as dedicated winter tires. Given that I would not hesitate to put the Nokian Hakkepalittas on my car if I wanted real snows.


 Finally someone who knows winter tires! I have had Hakka 2s and now have Hakka 5s on my 2010 Forester and 2005 Impreza. They turn Subarus into snowmobiles. I can't ever get the car to spin while starting in a straight line (including at stop signs where you normally get ice buildup from 2WD spinning, too hard acceleration). They are expensive but what's an extra $300 when you spread it out over 5-6 winters?!

Andrew


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## NortheastAl (Aug 10, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Something about snow changes me.  Kinda like the moon and wherewolves....   I have NEVER called out of work due to snow.  And I've been the only one there a couple times....   I used to deliver snowblowers in blizzard conditions in a 2WD Ford Pickup.  Yup, tires help, but it is ALL about the driver.  The equipment is only as good as the operator.


I've been the only one to make it to work myself, and I lived the farthest away. You're right, It is all about the driver, and respect for road conditions, too.


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## WellSeasoned (Aug 10, 2013)

We have a '99 subi outback that we have kept because it just keeps chugging along.


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## NortheastAl (Aug 10, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> Finally someone who knows winter tires! I have had Hakka 2s and now have Hakka 5s on my 2010 Forester and 2005 Impreza. They turn Subarus into snowmobiles. I can't ever get the car to spin while starting in a straight line (including at stop signs where you normally get ice buildup from 2WD spinning, too hard acceleration). They are expensive but what's an extra $300 when you spread it out over 5-6 winters?!
> 
> Andrew


Checked these tires out, as I had never heard of them. Impressive reviews. Might give these a try next time.


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 11, 2013)

spirilis said:


> An old friend convinced me when I saw how his Legacy handled the twisty mountain roads. Something about the handling in those things, maybe it's the symmetry in the drivetrain or something, but it just feels rock solid negotiating mountain roads.
> 
> Then again you should already know this if you own one


 
Careful, you're going to annoy "some of their fanatics are more annoying than a splinter" Joful.   But I agree, the handling is astonishing for a vehicle of this "practicality".


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## Swedishchef (Aug 11, 2013)

Al; they are great tires. I won't ever put anything else on my car.

Rusty: LOL. Poor Joful. The fact is month after month for the past 5 years, Subaru is increasing sales. Subaru USA even outsold VW USA 3 years ago: and Subaru only had 5 models while VW had 9-10. 

No more hijacking this thread....lol.

Andrew


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## RustyShackleford (Aug 11, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> The fact is month after month for the past 5 years, Subaru is increasing sales.


 
Yeah, I've read some interesting stuff.   Subaru was THE only car maker in the world to increase sales during 2008 "great recession".   Also, about 40% of buyers pay cash, way higher than average.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 11, 2013)

I find I tend to see lots of professionals driving them ( like Volvo used to be...)


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## TMonter (Aug 12, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> Finally someone who knows winter tires! I have had Hakka 2s and now have Hakka 5s on my 2010 Forester and 2005 Impreza. They turn Subarus into snowmobiles. I can't ever get the car to spin while starting in a straight line (including at stop signs where you normally get ice buildup from 2WD spinning, too hard acceleration). They are expensive but what's an extra $300 when you spread it out over 5-6 winters?!


 
For most people I'd actually go for a studless snow tire unless you do a lot of driving on Ice. My experience with both is that the studless snow tires tend to be better in mixed conditions compared to studded units unless you are dealing with ice.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 13, 2013)

Hey TMonter!

I do agree 100%. Traction on pave or wet pave is reduced with a studded tire BS non studded, there's no doubt in my mind. But what seems to happen where I live during storms is that the first 1-2 CM of snow gets packed, absorbs some water and then freezes. So underlying the snow can sometimes be ice. And on those days, I appreciate the studs.

However, I may try a non-studded tire soon. Studs get loud after hearing them for 4-5 months....


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## velvetfoot (Aug 13, 2013)

We live on a hill and both cars have 4 studded snow tires.  Ditto on the noise though.


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## TMonter (Aug 13, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> Hey TMonter!
> 
> I do agree 100%. Traction on pave or wet pave is reduced with a studded tire BS non studded, there's no doubt in my mind. But what seems to happen where I live during storms is that the first 1-2 CM of snow gets packed, absorbs some water and then freezes. So underlying the snow can sometimes be ice. And on those days, I appreciate the studs.
> 
> However, I may try a non-studded tire soon. Studs get loud after hearing them for 4-5 months....


 
Well my experience is with 2 sets of snow tires on my wife's van and the recent set was studless and I honestly think the van handles better overall with the studless tires than it did with the studded ones. She's currently running Michelin X-ICE2's during the winter months and it completely changes how the van handles from the summer tires.

When we had our Subaru I just ran a set of all-season tires that had been siped and it got around just fine but around here we mostly get packed snow and very few ice storms.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 13, 2013)

TMonter said:


> Well my experience is with 2 sets of snow tires on my wife's van and the recent set was studless and I honestly think the van handles better overall with the studless tires than it did with the studded ones. She's currently running Michelin X-ICE2's during the winter months and it completely changes how the van handles from the summer tires.
> 
> When we had our Subaru I just ran a set of all-season tires that had been siped and it got around just fine but around here we mostly get packed snow and very few ice storms.



I would certainly handle different. Winter tires are made of much softer rubber that resists getting hard in lower temps. X-ice 2 are great tires!  Just remember though : I live in the snow capital of North America ( well, almost the capital....)

No more tire posts, too far off topic. Lol


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## Ashful (Aug 14, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> I find I tend to see lots of professionals driving them ( like Volvo used to be...)


 
<-- owns a Volvo AWD V50 T5 R-design, wife's fast kid hauler


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## Swedishchef (Aug 14, 2013)

Joful said:


> <-- *owns* a Volvo AWD V50 T5 R-design, *wife's fast kid hauler*


 
I own lots of things as well that I can never use/touch


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## Ashful (Aug 14, 2013)

Swedishchef said:


> I own lots of things as well that I can never use/touch


 
Oh, I can use it any time I want, but as I don't like sitting in crumbs or having my arm stick to the mystery goo (dried juice?) on the arm rest, or chit stacked on the passenger seat flying at me when taking a corner... I just stick to my pickup truck most of the time. I'll never understand how a woman with such fastidiously neat parents can live in such chaos.

_edit:  sorry for the de-rail_


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

Didnt you do this snow tire survey 6 months ago Andrew?


I remember us Pilot Alipin,X-Ice and Blizzak drivers were considered unworthy back then too


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

Joful said:


> Oh, I can use it any time I want, but as I don't like sitting in crumbs or having my arm stick to the mystery goo (dried juice?) on the arm rest, or chit stacked on the passenger seat flying at me when taking a corner... I just stick to my pickup truck most of the time. I'll never understand how a woman with such fastidiously neat parents can live in such chaos.
> 
> _edit: sorry for the de-rail_


 
Sounds familiar.  If she sees one drop of coffee on the kithcen floor my wife will drop everything, vacuum and mop the entire house. But her Honda Pilot looks like a warzone around the child seats.


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## Swedishchef (Aug 14, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Didnt you do this snow tire survey 6 months ago Andrew?
> 
> 
> I remember us Pilot Alipin,X-Ice and Blizzak drivers were considered unworthy back then too


 You're still unworthy  But I love you just the same.


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## jharkin (Aug 14, 2013)

awwwwwwwwwww shucks


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