# Help Comparing a Harman TL300 and a BlazeKing



## jhambley (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm a bit confused when trying to compare a Harman TL300 and a BlazeKing King. 

The Harman uses a ceramic combustor but they say they aren't a catalytic stove? It also is a top loader. Is that an advantage?

Could you guys help me compare the two stoves. Has anyone used both of them for comparison?

Thanks in advance for your assistance!


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## jeff_t (Oct 19, 2012)

Harman uses what they call 'FireDome'. It is a downdraft type of secondary combustion system that burns the gases in a ceramic chamber in the back of the stove. It seems to work much better than VC's similar system. Do a search here and read the reviews.

I have never heard anybody say they didn't love top loading stoves.

Those are kinda odd stoves to compare. What are you wanting to heat?


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## MishMouse (Oct 19, 2012)

The Harman TL300 stove is a downdraft stove, so if you do not have a strong enough draft the stove will perform poorly.  Poor draft can be caused by too short of chimney and or not cold enough outside (their are other factors but these are the main 2).  I typically only light the stove when it is below 45, any temp over that requires more work to get it going.

The TL300 uses a 6" flue while the BlazeKing King needs an 8" flue.  The advantage of the top loading system of the Harman stoves is that they offer a drop in grill feature.  This is very useful if you wish to grill during the winter months.  I find myself grilling more in the winter months than the summer months since I bought this stove.  It is much easier to drop the grill in (before a re-load when you are down to coals) and cook the food, then start a BBQ outside. 

The BK does not offer this feature though it does have very impressing burn times and is not as picky as the Harman is on draft.


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## jhambley (Oct 19, 2012)

So the Harmon is a catalytic stove. Both stoves use a replaceable compustion catalyst to burn the secondary gases?

I need a primary heat source for 2100 square foot ranch home. New construction, tight, well insulated, with open floor plan. Stove will be free standing in center of home. Chimney straight up and out 9 foot ceiling.


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## weatherguy (Oct 19, 2012)

jhambley said:


> So the Harmon is a catalytic stove. Both stoves use a replaceable compustion catalyst to burn the secondary gases?
> 
> I need a primary heat source for 2100 square foot ranch home. New construction, tight, well insulated, with open floor plan. Stove will be free standing in center of home. Chimney straight up and out 9 foot ceiling.


 No, the Blaze King is catalytic, the Harman has a secondary combustion system, its just a little different from most stoves, similar to the VC.


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## jhambley (Oct 19, 2012)

Why do you consider the comparison so unusual?

My wife likes the look of the Harman but the BlazeKing looks like a workhorse. 

Not much difference in price.


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## weatherguy (Oct 19, 2012)

jhambley said:


> Why do you consider the comparison so unusual?
> 
> My wife likes the look of the Harman but the BlazeKing looks like a workhorse.
> 
> Not much difference in price.


 They're two different animals, ones a catalytic stove and ones a secondary burn stove. The BK will give you tons of heat and you can turn it down low for long slow burns, Im not familiar with the Harman but Mishmouse can give you more info on that one. I have the smaller BK and love it, I can heat my house with it and also in shoulder season turn it down low and get a long burn time, not as long as the King but long enough.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 19, 2012)

Also, the Blaze King King is a much larger stove capable of heating much long and a lot more space than the Harmon. What type of winters do you get in "East Central Kansas?"

At 2100 sq ft, the King seems a bit oversized for your area and constructions.


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## jeff_t (Oct 19, 2012)

jhambley said:


> Why do you consider the comparison so unusual?
> 
> My wife likes the look of the Harman but the BlazeKing looks like a workhorse.
> 
> Not much difference in price.


 
Just that one is a heckuva lot bigger than the other.

In a new, tight house, you may be better served by the Princess or Chinook 30. There are also rumors of a bigger Sirocco and a cast iron clad stove. That way you wouldn't be limited by the 8" chimney if you want to change stoves down the road.

I like the look of the Harman, too.


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## rideau (Oct 19, 2012)

Don't overlook the various Woodstock stoves either.  They'd do a great job in your set up, are durable and very attractive, and the customer service is fantastic.  They sell direct, so you have to go to their website to view the stoves.  Lots of posts from people here who have the various models.


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## rdust (Oct 19, 2012)

If this is your first time burning a modern stove I would personally stay away from any downdraft style stove.  They seem to be more sensitive to draft, wood and loading technique than other stoves.


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## weatherguy (Oct 19, 2012)

Theres quite a few stoves that would heat your house, I would be looking at the larger stoves 2.5-3cf box or thereabouts, as someone mentioned the Woodstock line is a great product and your wife may love the looks of one of those stoves.


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## daleeper (Oct 19, 2012)

May I ask why you are considering those two stoves specifically?   I'm guessing because of burn times?

The BK King has a bigger firebox, the Princess would be more on the same size as the Harman  Keep in mind the King needs the 8" flue instead of 6".  Someone above thought the King would be too big for your application, but their literature states 2000+ square feet, so should fit about right, although the princess or the other new 3 cf stoves would have less risk of overpowering the house.

I have an older model of blaze king, so have not run a King, and have only seen the harman in operation at the dealer, and discussed maintenance with them.  I would tend to go with the Blaze King stoves as they are a cat stove with a thermostatic air control, proven to be low and slow burners.  Harman advertizes slow steady burns, but they are going to be putting out more heat, less burn time than the BK stoves.  The firedome is more fragile than a cat, and the firebrick are special bricks that don't come cheap.  Harman makes a nice looking stove, and one that will heat your house and cook your supper, but in the end, I like the Blaze Kings feature set better.


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## Hiram Maxim (Oct 19, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Also, the Blaze King King is a much larger stove capable of heating much long and a lot more space than the Harmon. What type of winters do you get in "East Central Kansas?"
> 
> At 2100 sq ft, the King seems a bit oversized for your area and constructions.


 
Actually it works great...King is not oversized at all with the T-stat!

My House is 2120 sqft

With the Princess Youll be loading twice as much


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 19, 2012)

The harman also has the added feature of being able to use it like a fireplace. WIth an optional pop on screen you simply open the door and open the bypass handle and  you have an open fire plus screen to catch anything that pops from flying out. Im not sure of any other stove that has this feature. THe radiant heat in this mode is awesome.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 19, 2012)

I v already had decent after burn at 55 deg outdoor temps with the harman,but you need at least a 25Ft flue system for that.


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## MishMouse (Oct 19, 2012)

My TL-300, can easily do over night burns with the eco-fan still spinning even after 12+ hours after re-load.  I have gone close to 17 hours before re-load with still enough coals to get it going without the use of a match.  The primary reason why I went with the TL-300 over a similiar 3.0 cft stove is the fact that is is a top load and it has the drop in grill.  I also already had an existing 6 inch flue installed. 

Question to the OP, are you starting from scratch or is there an existing flue system in the house?


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## Heftiger (Oct 19, 2012)

What type of wood do you burn over there? Are you looking for long burn times?

I burn only pine, and can still get 24 hours burns with the king. I have a 1500 sq. ft. home and it's not too big.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 19, 2012)

MishMouse said:


> My TL-300, can easily do over night burns with the eco-fan still spinning even after 12+ hours after re-load. I have gone close to 17 hours before re-load with still enough coals to get it going without the use of a match.


 
Do you have the fireplace screen and do you use it MM?


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## jhambley (Oct 19, 2012)

All new construction. So, no existing flue. Don't really care about the fireplace or grill feature. As a full time burner, the ease of use and long burn times of the BK make it more attractive in my eyes  I will be burning some poplar but mostly locust and some hedge.


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## Highbeam (Oct 19, 2012)

I put the BK princess which is 2.85 CF into my 1700 SF home. It is a lot of stove. The king is not twice as big, it's only listed as 4.32 CF so the Princess is 2/3 as big as the King.

If you're to be a full time burner, go catalytic and my choice for best stove (if you can stand the looks) is the BK.


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## daleeper (Oct 20, 2012)

jhambley said:


> All new construction. So, no existing flue. Don't really care about the fireplace or grill feature. As a full time burner, the ease of use and long burn times of the BK make it more attractive in my eyes  I will be burning some poplar but mostly locust and some hedge.


 
BK King it is then.  No way will the harman match it for your needs.


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## Ashful (Oct 20, 2012)

I spent some time looking at the Harmans, very attractive stoves, with some impressive (advertised) specs for a non-cat stove.  However, I came across too many posts and reviews of people having difficulty with the Firedome system, so I stayed away.

BK obviously has its fans (above), and if you can bear to look at one sitting in your living room, they're probably the top performing cat stove on the market. There are other more attractive cat stoves, though, which may come close to BKs performance.  Buck, Woodstock, Appalacian, High Sierra, and several others.  Buck and Woodstock both have their fans, here.

There are many more options if you're willing to settle for a non-cat.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 20, 2012)

I choose the harman cuz i didnt want to buy a catalyst every few years. There is  no other stove quite like it  I have 2 other brands of wood stoves but the harman is the best overall performer, the best quality,and the easiest to reload.  The other 2 stove brands cant come close to the burn times. its also tall with a huge viewing window. I had to put my other stoves on a 16" platform just to be able to view the fire at a decent level.


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## raybonz (Oct 20, 2012)

From all I have read here this would be a no-brainer and choose the BK! I like the looks of the BK better and the performance appears to be top notch.Seems the TL can be difficult at times but never hear that about the BK stoves..

Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 20, 2012)

raybonz said:


> From all I have read here this would be a no-brainer and choose the BK! I like the looks of the BK better and the performance appears to be top notch.Seems the TL can be difficult at times but never hear that about the BK stoves..
> 
> Ray


If you can get past the looks of the stove. wouldnt want it in my living room ,possibly in the basement. As far as the TL goes one guy posted a few hundred negative comments here last year before we helped him figure out his problem.He had an open flue tee inside is fireplace flue .
about the equivelent of trying to operate the stove with a 6 Ft chimney. After he corrected it ,he loved the stove and praised it. After you use a top loading stove for awhile you realize what a hassle it is load from the front. Both these stoves are top of the line though.


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## raybonz (Oct 20, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> If you can get past the looks of the stove. wouldnt want it in my living room ,possibly in the basement. As far as the TL goes one guy posted a few hundred negative comments here last year before we helped him figure out his problem.He had an open flue tee inside is fireplace flue .
> about the equivelent of trying to operate the stove with a 6 Ft chimney. After he corrected it ,he loved the stove and praised it. After you use a top loading stove for awhile you realize what a hassle it is load from the front. Both these stoves are top of the line though.


Wow an open Tee would explain that draft problem! I am glad to hear your stove works very well! MY BIL has the same one but he burns wet wood and cranks it all the time. I tried to explain he should be burning dry wood but some people won't listen to reason. He goes through a ton of wood but we all know it's because the wood is wet and he has to crank up the air to compensate. In the interest of good relations I say no more about it to him as he knows all there is to know since he has been burning wood for decades albeit incorrectly! How do you find the wood consumption on your TL-300?

Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 20, 2012)

As i said i have 2 other brands of stoves as well and none comes close to the burn times of the TL-300. I already heated a half-double for the whole winter on 2 cords of oak and some tear out lumber as i rehabbed the house. THe walls were so open you could see daylight in many places. I would use the pine during the day and load it up with seasoned oak about 6PM .when i came back at 9AM the next day all i had to do was put more wood in and let er rip. Iv had this stove in 2 different locations so far and it performed excellent in both locations. I burned a lot of pine lathe boards known to produce a lot of smoke but the TL burned completely clean zero smoke.I also burn lathe in my NC-30 englander but i do get smoke from that.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 20, 2012)

I dont know what the efficiency penalty is for burning wet wood ,but i would not be surprised if its 50% or more. A friend of mine has an open fireplace that works OK with dry wood but one day he ran out of dry wood and it was all he could do to keep it lit let alone produce heat. smoked up the house and produced just about nothing for heat.


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## raybonz (Oct 20, 2012)

Wet wood requires many BTU's just to drive the water out so you get little heat value, burn more wood, create more creosote and have trouble getting the fire lit plus cat or secondary burn will not happen until the wood has dried out..

Ray


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 20, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> After you use a top loading stove for awhile you realize what a hassle it is load from the front.


I gotta say, I've never had a front load only stove until I got the 30. Didn't know what to expect. I like it a lot more than I thought I would, and I have owned four top loading stoves. It's not as convenient as a top loader, but it not a hassle at all.

I find side loading as the bigger pain in the ass.


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## raybonz (Oct 20, 2012)

My CDW was front and side loading and when I 1st got it I used the double front doors until a log rolled onto the carpet lol.. Side loaded from that point on and it was easier on that stove as well.. Side loading is best in an EW stove and front loading is best in a NS stove in my opinion..

Ray


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## Highbeam (Oct 20, 2012)

Yes, there are other cat stoves than BK. For looks, the best thing going is the woodstock. All the others look like something that was designed in the 70s because they were. The other cat stoves just look really weird and dated and yes this includes my goofy looking BK.  

For function, nothing comes close to the performance of a BK for burn times which is really the most important thing when heating a 2000 SF home. See, just about any stove on the market can make enough raw heat to cook you out of your 2000 SF home, so the real trick is the longest burn times which will allow you to load the stove and walk away for 24-40 hours. Only the BK can do that with ease. 24 hours is nearly double what the next closest competitor can do.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2012)

I v already reloaded my harman after 27 hours without a relight,but usable heat probably around  18-20 hours .not bad for a 3.0 CU ft stove.


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## raybonz (Oct 21, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I v already reloaded my harman after 27 hours without a relight,but usable heat probably around 18-20 hours .not bad for a 3.0 CU ft stove.


Impressive for a secondary burn stove!

Ray


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## jhambley (Oct 21, 2012)

> I choose the harman cuz i didnt want to buy a catalyst every few years.


 
Everyone keeps saying the Harman isn't a cat stove but the Harman dealer told me the compustor in the Harman needs to be replaced every 5 years (or so). In addition, he mentioned several customers have broken their compustors since it has to be removed to clean the stove. What say you?


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 21, 2012)

jhambley said:


> Everyone keeps saying the Harman isn't a cat stove but the Harman dealer told me the compustor in the Harman needs to be replaced every 5 years (or so). In addition, he mentioned several customers have broken their compustors since it has to be removed to clean the stove. What say you?


It's not a cat stove. It has a refractory package for secondary burn instead of burn tubes. It's kind of like Vermont Castings non-cat Everburn stoves.


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## jhambley (Oct 22, 2012)

Since both stoves use a "consumable core" (that had to be replaced on a regular basis) to burn secondary gases, I don't see where either stove has an advantage in that area of comparison.


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## daleeper (Oct 22, 2012)

jhambley said:


> Since both stoves use a "consumable core" (that had to be replaced on a regular basis) to burn secondary gases, I don't see where either stove has an advantage in that area of comparison.


 
In regards to maintenance and expense you are correct (I think there is probably room for arguments from both sides in this, but in the end, I think cost would end up similar over time.).

However, the cat in a BK and others only needs to be at about 500 degrees to operate, whereas the firedome needs to be at the same temps as a non-cat to function which I believe is about 1000 degrees. Mode of operation is different, even though high heat ceramics can be involved in both. The firedome is a chamber constructed of a fiber that resists heat, allowing the high heat in that chamber to burn the gasses. The cat is a honeycomb of ceramic or stainless steel that is coated with metal materials that allow the gasses to burn at a lower temperature. The cat ceramic is not quite as fragile as the firedome, and usually installed in an area that will be less likely to be damaged when loading the stove. The cat coating can be damaged by burning inappropriate items, and by handling it too rough when cleaning it. Cats will plug with ash, but so will the firedome if not cleaned on a regular basis.

In my opinion, the firedome should in theory last the life of the stove, I think most get replaced because of damage done while loading or cleaning.  A cat does lose its effectiveness over time, and does finally "wear out" and need replaced, and that is when they are usually replaced, but there are times when burning something inappropriate ruins it, or in cleaning, it breaks, falls apart, or loses some of its coating and needs replaced.  I feel better with a cat stove than the firedome.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

jhambley said:


> Since both stoves use a "consumable core" (that had to be replaced on a regular basis) to burn secondary gases, I don't see where either stove has an advantage in that area of comparison.


This is the 5th year i have my stove and there is no sign of degredation of the firedome. Iv heard estimates of 10 years before the firedome may need attention. Its protected by  hard ceramic Tiles with air holes at the entrance inside the stove. its very easy to clean these air holes with a shop vac once a month or so. I cant imagine how you could damage the softer refractory material cuz its up inside the firedome where you would have to literally jam the ash vac or a piece of wood up in there somehow. You can also see the soft refractory materiel by removing the flue pipe and looking straight down into the back of the stove. After several inspections this way i see no need even for vacuuming or cleaning as its clean. Maintenance and cleaning of the combustor seems to be greatly exaggerated on this site usually by those who do not own the stove.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Another reason i did not want ta cat stove is because i occasionally burn wood that may have some varnish or paint or glues on it as i burn a lot of wood i tear out of rehab jobs. I did not want to worry about ruining expensive cat combustors. So far the TL-300 has handled every thing with ease that i have burned ,all with zero smoke.  Yes you do need closer to 1000 deg internal temp to light off a firedome where only around 500 for a cat stove,but 1000 deg internal temp is quite easy to achieve in about 15-20 minutes from a cold stove in my case,especially with all the pine i burn. After the combustor is lit up it is pretty much self sustaining. Looks like a blast furnace in back of the stove even with the air turned way down and the wood itself having no visible flame.


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I v already reloaded my harman after 27 hours without a relight,but usable heat probably around 18-20 hours .not bad for a 3.0 CU ft stove.


 
That is excellent performance from a non-cat. I wonder why you don't see many of these harmans?

Stick to your guns seasonedoak, you're doing great.


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## Ashful (Oct 22, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I choose the harman cuz i didnt want to buy a catalyst every few years.


 
I sometimes see this posted, and really don't understand the issue. My cat costs $150, and most others are in the $100 - $200 price range. A full-time burner will typically replace their cat every 6 years, and those burning less frequently can go much longer, as evidenced by the 19 year old (still functional) cat I just replaced on an semi-frequently used Jotul 12 I inherited last year. Even at $300 for some of the more expensive cat's, amortized over 6 years is $50 per year, and more typical cat's amortize to $25 per year. Not exactly a good reason to give up on what could be a far superior stove for many applications.



Seasoned Oak said:


> Another reason i did not want ta cat stove is because i occasionally burn wood that may have some varnish or paint or glues on it as i burn a lot of wood i tear out of rehab jobs. I did not want to worry about ruining expensive cat combustors.


 
Now _that is _a good reason to avoid a catalytic combustor, and one of the biggest problems Jotul says they had with selling catalytic stoves in the 1990's.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Joful said:


> I sometimes see this posted, and really don't understand the issue. My cat costs $150, and most others are in the $100 - $200 price range. A full-time burner will typically replace their cat every 6 years, and those burning less frequently can go much longer, as evidenced by the 19 year old (still functional) cat I just replaced on an semi-frequently used Jotul 12 I inherited last year. Even at $300 for some of the more expensive cat's, amortized over 6 years is $50 per year, and more typical cat's amortize to $25 per year. Not exactly a good reason to give up on what could be a far superior stove for many applications.


But, it is still added cost and maintenance. And, you can still destroy a cat by running the cat at temps that are too high. Buying a $200-$300 cat every few years may not sound like much if you break it down by cost per year, but it is still a couple of hundred dollars out of your pocket at that time. And for some, that is added cost that just isn't worth it. At $250, that is nearly a third of the price of a new 30. Nearly 40% if you got your 30 at $650. That can't be ignored.

Cat stoves are great, but, there is added cost and maintenance to the stoves.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

I have nothing at all against cat stoves.ill probably buy one someday. Woodstoves are like woman and cars to me,i pretty much like them all in general and some of them intensely.
Having used 3 other types of EPA afterburn stoves i d like to compare the experience with a cat stove.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> That is excellent performance from a non-cat. I wonder why you don't see many of these harmans?
> .


They are only made in one small factory in PA and probably not adequately advertised nationwide. Also one VERY important factor is their Service and support is very weak and spotty with most users reporting very poor product support. THe factory leaves it all up to the dealers so there are as many different support experiences as there are dealers. I can and do install and service all my own stoves so its not a problem for me.Any dealer can get parts. Cheers.


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## rideau (Oct 22, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> But, it is still added cost and maintenance. And, you can still destroy a cat by running the cat at temps that are too high. Buying a $200-$300 cat every few years may not sound like much if you break it down by cost per year, but it is still a couple of hundred dollars out of your pocket at that time. And for some, that is added cost that just isn't worth it. At $250, that is nearly a third of the price of a new 30. Nearly 40% if you got your 30 at $650. That can't be ignored.
> 
> Cat stoves are great, but, there is added cost and maintenance to the stoves.


 
IMO cost is recouped in the lesser amount of wood burned; less chainsaw fuel and oil, chain, chainsharpening, fuel to get to scrounges, wear and tear on vehicles & trailers etc over the six or so years of a cat's life; and convenience and less work of longer burns. Half a cord a year saved = 3 cords saved per cat, and that is conservative. That half cord or more of wood saved per year costs you $30 in cat. Who wouldn't buy good wood at $60/cord? At that price, not worth the effort or expense of getting it yourself /

Maintenance? Less work getting the wood more than makes up for "maintenance" time, as does infrequency of chimney cleaning. Brushing a cat once or twice a season takes less time than sweeping a chimney....,my chimney has gone 2 years between sweeps, less than 2 cups fine soot, all in lower part of stovepipe. I know of no other maintenance peculiar to a cat. Replacing a cat takes a total of under 10 minutes. No longer or harder than removing ash. It's minor routine maintenance.
Five + years with Fireview, cleaned chimney max 1 x year, sometimes every other, checked cat once a year, never needed cleaning...never had one cell clogged. A bit of powder would come out, but very little. Probably would have been better off just leaving it alone too. Essentially no maintenance. No problem ever with the stove. Unless other cat stoves are vastly different than Woodstock's, don't really understand why this is even a subject for debate.

IMO it's just a question of which you prefer, whether you are willing to take and are interested in taking the little time it takes in the first week or so to learn when to engage a cat; whether you are prepared to burn only clean wood (no used wood with finishes, etc); whether you will not overfire your stove. If you do those things, your cat will last many years and more than pay for itself.

The large new stainless cat for the PH is $175. That means you can replace your cat three times before you are within striking distance of the cost of a $650 30. Stove comes with a cat =6 years. Three new cats = 18 years. Total 24 years before you are within $125.00 of the cost of the 30. So IMO you can ignore that.

Low end cat stoves may be more expensive up front than low end secondary burn stoves...I don't know; and it may well be hard for many people to come up with $200 suddenly for a replacement cat. If you are in that catagory and have a cat stove, you can budget for the cat. You know you'll likely need one every 6 years...so put $3/month aside for the stove, or buy a replacement as a present for yourself a year or two in advance. be aware the warrantee runs from the date of purchase.

Finances are a valid concern, and for some the most important factor in choosing a stove will be the net out of pocket expense. And that is fine. We ideally should all be getting the stove that is best suited to us..that's a big part of what this forum is all about. For some, who do all their firewood c/s/s primarily by hand on foot on their own property, there may be little oop cost in acquiring firewood, and the cat may cost more than non-cat. But very few. The vast majority are spending a heck of a lot more on toys.

And it is interesting to see the same people advocating spending $60 on Super Cedars, for convenience, who are concerned about spending $30 on cats, for efficiency.

Cat stoves are frequently burned much cooler most of the time, and I seriously wonder whether that doesn't equate to longer stove life and less true routine maintenance during the course of the life of the stove.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

You can rationalize all you want, and you bring up good points. But, in the end, there is more maintenance and cost on a cat stove than there is on a non-cat stove. You can say it is minimal. Or that if you break it down by each year it isn't much. But, there is more cost and maintenance.


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## rideau (Oct 22, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> You can rationalize all you want, and you bring up good points. But, in the end, there is more maintenance and cost on a cat stove than there is on a non-cat stove. You can say it is minimal. Or that if you break it down by each year it isn't much. But, there is more cost and maintenance.


 
So we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## Ashful (Oct 22, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> But, it is still added cost and maintenance. And, you can still destroy a cat by running the cat at temps that are too high. Buying a $200-$300 cat every few years may not sound like much if you break it down by cost per year, but it is still a couple of hundred dollars out of your pocket at that time. And for some, that is added cost that just isn't worth it. At $250, that is nearly a third of the price of a new 30. Nearly 40% if you got your 30 at $650. That can't be ignored.
> 
> Cat stoves are great, but, there is added cost and maintenance to the stoves.


 
I've read maybe a dozen stories here of damaged or broken reburn tubes in non-cat stoves, but I can think of only one example of a damaged cat during the same time period. While advertised otherwise, stories posted here seem to indicate the non-cat stoves are the ones with added (and unexpected) additional cost and maintenance.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Joful said:


> I've read maybe a dozen stories here of damaged or broken reburn tubes in non-cat stoves, but I can think of only one example of a damaged cat during the same time period. While advertised otherwise, stories posted here seem to indicate the non-cat stoves are the ones with added (and unexpected) additional cost and maintenance.


A dozen posts on damaged or broken reburn tubes?


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## Ashful (Oct 22, 2012)

Yep, and or baffles... was just reading another a few minutes ago.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...y-and-replacement-options.92421/#post-1214822

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-pull-the-top-off-of-an-oslo.92092/#post-1210284


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Joful said:


> I've read maybe a dozen stories here of damaged or broken reburn tubes in non-cat stoves, but I can think of only one example of a damaged cat during the same time period. While advertised otherwise, stories posted here seem to indicate the non-cat stoves are the ones with added (and unexpected) additional cost and maintenance.


The T-5 has a heavy S/S baffle that doesn't employ burn tubes and has a lifetime warranty so I do not expect any costs in this regard. I owned a cat stove for 20+ years and yes I had to buy cats generally every 6 yrs. or so.

Ray


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## Todd (Oct 22, 2012)

I've always wanted to try out a Harman top loader with that very cool grill option. I can see where top loading would be an advantage for folks with bad knees or backs. I wonder if their fire dome technology really does even out the burn similar to a cat stove? Throw in a t-stat and it could be a real winner.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Todd said:


> I've always wanted to try out a Harman top loader with that very cool grill option. I can see where top loading would be an advantage for folks with bad knees or backs. I wonder if their fire dome technology really does even out the burn similar to a cat stove? Throw in a t-stat and it could be a real winner.


Hmm do I see a new stove in out future Todd?

Ray


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## Todd (Oct 22, 2012)

Todd said:


> I've always wanted to try out a Harman top loader with that very cool grill option. I can see where top loading would be an advantage for folks with bad knees or backs. I wonder if their fire dome technology really does even out the burn similar to a cat stove? Throw in a t-stat and it could be a real winner.





raybonz said:


> Hmm do I see a new stove in out future Todd?
> 
> Ray


 
I do have a bad knee and my back isn't getting any younger.  I'm still a little leary with those down draft stoves and I'd hate to go from set and forget to constantly tweaking with the air to keep that secondary burn in control.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Todd said:


> I do have a bad knee and my back isn't getting any younger.  I'm still a little leary with those down draft stoves and I'd hate to go from set and forget to constantly tweaking with the air to keep that secondary burn in control.


Just had my knee repaired so I can understand that..

Ray


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Todd said:


> I do have a bad knee and my back isn't getting any younger.  I'm still a little leary with those down draft stoves and I'd hate to go from set and forget to constantly tweaking with the air to keep that secondary burn in control.


Moving stoves around keeps you young!


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

Even if the harmann does what Seasoned Oak reports, it is still nowhere near as functional as the BK. I don't think Todd will switch for performance reasons.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Even if the harmann does what Seasoned Oak reports, it is still nowhere near as functional as the BK. I don't think Todd will switch for performance reasons.


Dunno sounds pretty darn functional to me! HB I think you know that secondary burn does quite well and pretty darn fast.. No tweaking needed..

Ray


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## Pallet Pete (Oct 22, 2012)

Ok Randy (seasoned oak) is the guy to talk to for sure ! 

From my experience Harman can work extreamly well and I suspect as good if not better than Blaze King ( Here comes the war  ) We had a tl300 top load and honestly I would have kept it and tried to figure the draft out and been able to fix the combuster gasket and back plate customer service is important to me ! Leaving those issues aside the stove had some real and amazing attributes I could see even with our issues. We had one burn that the temps and weather outside stayed the same for the coals lasted 3 days ( No joke ) I had so much left that when we got home 3 days later I literally put some kindling on and 5 minutes latter loaded it up ! Granted this only happened once but we did not have optimal draft at the time either because of surrounding buildings and trees. I ended up getting rid of it due to horrible customer service but I would say that not all dealers are the same and not all situations are the same. 

Pete


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Todd said:


> I do have a bad knee and my back isn't getting any younger.  I'm still a little leary with those down draft stoves and I'd hate to go from set and forget to constantly tweaking with the air to keep that secondary burn in control.


I dont have to tweak the air at all,the secondary burn is dependent on 2 things, enough draft and internal stove temp. it really dont matter what you do with the air setting. Although shutting it down BEFORE you are in afterburn will have an effect.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I dont have to tweak the air at all,the secondary burn is dependent on 2 things enough draft and internal stove temp. it really dont matter what you do with the air setting. Although shutting it down BEFORE you are in afterburn will have an effect.


Does the TL-300 have an option for legs or just the commie pedestal? 

I kid of course about the commie remark, but I a curious about the legs option.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

I cant stress enough how nice the top loading is. Plus i can load the stove tight and with the andirons in front of the wood nothing touches the glass or rolls out of the stove.Stove gives a heck of a fire show as well.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Does the TL-300 have an option for legs or just the commie pedestal?
> 
> I kid of course about the commie remark, but I a curious about the legs option.


Its a pedestal cuz it has a huge ash pan and it takes quite a while to fill up. I also like the ash pan and separate ash door on start up cuz you can open it and the fire roars like crazy with the air rushing in from below.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Im not knocking the BK at all, heck if they weren't so damn ugly id probably have one by now. I guess its like a (not so  beautiful woman)
not much to look at but superior service.


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

Something magical must be happening to get such long burn times and even more magical to do it without a cat. Good for Harman.

Commie Pedestal! They take a while to get used to but some stoves have some ugly legs.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Going through the Harman site and I ran across the "The Super Magnum Stoker."


> More than 100 hours of burn time from each load of coal.


 
Oh my!


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Something magical must be happening to get such long burn times and even more magical to do it without a cat. Good for Harman.
> 
> Commie Pedestal! They take a while to get used to but some stoves have some ugly legs.


For every pedestal that is installed it is a victory for the communists!


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Going through the Harman site and I ran across the "The Super Magnum Stoker."
> 
> 
> Oh my!


My stokers burn time is 8 months,(its auto feed) You do have to remove the ashes periodically. But no loading required.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Something magical must be happening to get such long burn times and even more magical to do it without a cat. Good for Harman.
> 
> Commie Pedestal! They take a while to get used to but some stoves have some ugly legs.


One way to long burn times is packing the stove tight ,which you can really pack to the gills with a top loader. Another is efficiently burning the wood gas.I think my harman burns 100% of the wood gas but my englander does smoke from time to time so apparently its not 100%


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

MY typical burn time with the harman with hardwood is about 15 hours, so far iv never got near that with the NC-30. Just my experience with it.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Something magical must be happening to get such long burn times and even more magical to do it without a cat. Good for Harman.
> 
> Commie Pedestal! They take a while to get used to but some stoves have some ugly legs.


I used to think you need a cat stove for a long burn but found that is not the case.. Aside from extremely long extremely low BTU burns achieved by some cat stoves it isn't a true test for when you need serious "normal" btu's for colder weather burning. In this respect secondary burn stoves are on par for btu's and efficiency..

Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2012)

Another consideration is stove height. I have all 3 of my other stoves on platforms 16" high and i still cant see the secondaries well. No platform needed with the harman a huge viewing window and the secondaries are all over the place.


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

raybonz said:


> I used to think you need a cat stove for a long burn but found that is not the case.. Aside from extremely long extremely low BTU burns achieved by some cat stoves it isn't a true test for when you need serious "normal" btu's for colder weather burning. In this respect secondary burn stoves are on par for btu's and efficiency..
> 
> Ray


 
That's confusing, you do need a cat for the really long burns, and if you need more heat you can always turn them up. The cat stoves offer those extremely long and low burns but they also are able to run hard, whatever you want!

True, when you need to run a stove hard the non-cats are quite efficient. That's their specialty but unfortunately it is also the only thing that most of them are good at. This Harman technology, at least in Oak's case, is exceptional.


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## raybonz (Oct 22, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> That's confusing, you do need a cat for the really long burns, and if you need more heat you can always turn them up. The cat stoves offer those extremely long and low burns but they also are able to run hard, whatever you want!
> 
> True, when you need to run a stove hard the non-cats are quite efficient. That's their specialty but unfortunately it is also the only thing that most of them are good at. This Harman technology, at least in Oak's case, is exceptional.


I shut my air all the way down and this stove runs for a very long time exceeding 10 hrs. many times.. I can't speak for the other stoves but I can on the T-5 and it has surprised me many times.. Didn't you get long burns from your previous stove?

Ray


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## rdust (Oct 22, 2012)

raybonz said:


> I shut my air all the way down and this stove runs for a very long time exceeding 10 hrs. many times.. I can't speak for the other stoves but I can on the T-5 and it has surprised me many times.. Didn't you get long burns from your previous stove?
> 
> Ray


 
I think "long" means different things to different people.  My Lopi Endeavor would have plenty of coals(no meaningful heat) for a relight after 10-12 hours and that was a 2.2cu' firebox, my BKP can throw meaningful heat for 24 hours until we start getting colder temps.  I haven't filled it yet during the shoulder season but I'm seeing 24 hours easy between reloads on Scotch Pine with enough left for easy light off.


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## Highbeam (Oct 22, 2012)

raybonz said:


> I shut my air all the way down and this stove runs for a very long time exceeding 10 hrs. many times.. I can't speak for the other stoves but I can on the T-5 and it has surprised me many times.. Didn't you get long burns from your previous stove?
> 
> Ray


 
You're happy with 10 hours and your stove shut down to low? That is anything but "very long". My previous stove was a heritage non-cat that I measured at just about 1.5 CF. I could get an overnight burn, 10 hours max, pretty easily after I got the stove mastered. 10 hours is a joke now. I get more than 12 hours with three small splits. My small break in fire lasted 12 hours. Being free of the burn time shackles is very pleasant, no more stuffing the stove full at night just to be sure that the house stays warm. 

The t5 is an excellent stove, firebox design really, that would have been my non-cat choice if I didn't decide to take a leap and move to cat technology. I had a t5 all priced out and sized up to fit the hearth. I do miss the nice fire view of the non-cats. I have been told that if I ever need to use the higher output settings of the BK that the coals should at least glow red if not give a small flame. There are some drawbacks to big ugly cat stoves but long burn times and a range of available output settings is not one of them. They look bad, cost a lot, and don't have the same flameshow.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

You do not need an exceptional amount of  draft with the harman,just adequate. Iv had it on 2 different 25Ft masonry chimneys, no insulated flues any anything fancy.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

How do you get the heat from the cat? Is it located in such a way that it does no go up the chimney?


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## jeff_t (Oct 23, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> How do you get the heat from the cat? Is it located in such a way that it does no go up the chimney?



The cat is at the front of a rectangular box, and the flue collar is on top. Not really sure how, but the cat can be glowing brightly, 1500°+, and the flue temp will be under 400°.


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## Ashful (Oct 23, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> I do miss the nice fire view of the non-cats. I have been told that if I ever need to use the higher output settings of the BK that the coals should at least glow red if not give a small flame. There are some drawbacks to big ugly cat stoves but long burn times and a range of available output settings is not one of them. They look bad, cost a lot, and don't have the same flameshow.


 
I'm surprised this is the case with the BK's, Highbeam.  With the primary air opened up half way or more, my stove looks almost the same whether the cat is engaged or not.  Same flame show, just a little more lazy with the cat engaged.  I don't think the uneducated would even notice the difference.  Mine doesn't go into "smoulder" mode until I'm down around 1/4 on the primary air control.

Have you ever tried running your stove on max heat output?  Maybe you just have way too much stove to open up the air and let'er rip?


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

jeff_t said:


> The cat is at the front of a rectangular box, and the flue collar is on top. Not really sure how, but the cat can be glowing brightly, 1500°+, and the flue temp will be under 400°.


400Deg flue temp sounds good and is evidence of heat not being wasted. The harman is similar with the fire dome glowing at 1500+ and low flue temps as well. Much more heat coming from the heat exchanger  around the firedome.


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## Todd (Oct 23, 2012)

Does the Harman put out a low even heat throughout the whole burn with a full load or does it seem to release most of it's heat at the beginning of the burn cycle? This is what impressed me most from the Blaze King, it can throttle down and keep the outgassing to a minimum during the first part of the burn and seems to stretch it out over a good 20+ hours. So far it looks like the t-stat keeps things under control no matter what the draft conditions may be. The flexibility of reloading anywhere from 12 to 30 hours is also such a nice thing to have when your a 24/7 burner.

Flue temps are very low and I wonder as well how a 1500 degree cat near the flue collar doesn't relate to higher flue temps but it doesn't. I've read where other downdraft stoves like the VC Neverburns had very high flue temps, Harman must of figured something out to keep that heat in the stove better han VC?


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

Once the afterburn lights ,you can throttle it down to the point where there is no visible flame in the firebox except for the wood gasses burning brightly where the gasses enter the firedome, If the wood is piled in front of the firedome entrance its hard to see, but i purposely stack the wood as to make a small tunnel so i can see right to the back of the stove. The ceramic glows cherry red and the fresh air holes look like a dozen little cutting torches. Its a show i havent been able  dulicate with any other stove. Ill try to get a decent picture.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

Some of the new model blaze kings actually look pretty decent. The Sirocco, looks very nice and the royal gaurdian is not bad either. The Briar wood has some HUGE viewing door. I was wondering when someone would enhance one of the best aspects of wood burning "the view" 
The way a stove looks is very important to me.


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## Highbeam (Oct 23, 2012)

The royal guardian and the briar, if I recall correctly, are part of BK's non-cat line. They aren't new and just aren't very popular. Without a cat or stat, the BK stoves are pretty average.

I had to run the princess stove at half throttle last night for a few hours to bring the house up to temp. I had stopped loading the fire over the weekend since the house was too warm and house temps had dropped to low 60s. For the first few hours of the fire I ran at my normal low throttle for max burntime but the house was not gaining temperature quickly enough for the women. At half throttle (number 2 on the stat) there was no steady flame, only an occasional burst of secondary flamage but the stove added 8 degrees to the house in those two hours so output went way up. Going from modern non-cat to BK is like night and day as far as flameshow.

We have a local harman dealer. Harman and quadrafire. I believe I looked inside a 300 when trying to turn the wife on to a steel pedestal stove. The harmans really do have a coal stove look to them. Pretty tall.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

THe harman 300i insert is downright gorgeous.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 23, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> THe harman 300i insert is downright gorgeous.


Which, seems to me, illustrates that they could put legs on the damn thing!


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> Which, seems to me, illustrates that they could put legs on the damn thing!


Legs on a fireplace insert?


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 23, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Legs on a fireplace insert?


Since the insert is seemingly based on the TL-300 but as an insert, it shows that a pedestal is not needed. I am assuming that the large ash pan has been removed for the inert. I would think the same thing could take place for the free standing stove.


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## raybonz (Oct 23, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Legs on a fireplace insert?


He has a tall fireplace opening  

Ray


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 23, 2012)

raybonz said:


> He has a tall fireplace opening
> 
> Ray


True. It's about 6' tall.


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## raybonz (Oct 23, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> True. It's about 6' tall.


Wow that's very big, how about some pics? I don't recall seeing any pics of your setups.

Ray


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## Ashful (Oct 23, 2012)

raybonz said:


> Wow that's very big, how about some pics?


 
Isn't 6 feet about average?


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 23, 2012)

Joful said:


> Isn't 6 feet about average?


It's not the size that matters but what you do with it.


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## Ashful (Oct 23, 2012)

BrowningBAR said:


> It's not the size that matters but what you do with it.


 
... says the guy with a combined 9 cu.ft. of firebox.


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## BrowningBAR (Oct 23, 2012)

Joful said:


> ... says the guy with a combined 9 cu.ft. of firebox.


The ladies dig the heat.


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## redhorse (Oct 30, 2012)

Todd said:


> Does the Harman put out a low even heat throughout the whole burn with a full load or does it seem to release most of it's heat at the beginning of the burn cycle? This is what impressed me most from the Blaze King, it can throttle down and keep the outgassing to a minimum during the first part of the burn and seems to stretch it out over a good 20+ hours. So far it looks like the t-stat keeps things under control no matter what the draft conditions may be. The flexibility of reloading anywhere from 12 to 30 hours is also such a nice thing to have when your a 24/7 burner.


 
The TL300 has an extremely even burn time. While cat stoves do too, if you compare a graph of cat stoves to the TL300, the line is more even with the Harman (slightly higher at the beginnging and lower at the end of the burn for cat stoves). You can check out what I mean here: hearthnhome.com/downloads/brochures/*TL300*.pdf

I'm the one that had an open tee in the chimney. We had an old Baker coal stove and decided we wanted to stop burning coal and go with wood. We bought the TL300 mainly because we are in a situation where we have to load it up in the morning and then are gone all day (so needed something with long burn times). Burn times of 12-16 hours are common with this stove (it depends a lot on the type/size of wood).

We had it installed and the company we bought it from never bothered to make sure our chimney was ok for a downdraft stove. We couldn't get that darn thing to heat even our family room, let alone the entire house. We had the company out to check the draft in the stove, check the moisture on the wood, etc. (BTW, Harman told us if the wood is too dry, the stove does not work as well.) The dealer just left us hanging.

It was only because of this forum that we figured out what the problem was. The company that had installed our new chimney for the coal stove left the entire system open -- no cap on the bottom and not joined properly where the pipe from the house met the chimney. We had a new liner put in and what a difference! The stove worked exactly the way the dealer and company said it should. It does take a nice bed of coals (we can usually go from cold start to secondary burn in about an hour) to run properly. But once that is established, you just pop the top open (the top load is awesome BTW), load it up, let things char for about 5-10 minutes, and close the damper. It hums along with a stove top temp of about 350 degrees and pumps out a whole lot of heat.

We had our chimney cleaned this past May after a year+ and there was nothing there. The sweep said whatever we were doing to keep doing it as things were super clean.

The low emissions, huge ash pan (we can get by dumping every two weeks), and long burn times (I have heard people say they've had hot coals after 24 hours) were the reason we chose the TL 300. The fact that it's easy to load, holds a lot of wood, and leaves us with a much larger wood pile at the end of the season are added bonuses.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 30, 2012)

27 hours once still enough hot coals to throw in some wood and open the air.
redhorse :have you used he fireplace feature or the roasting basket?


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## MishMouse (Oct 30, 2012)

For me I don't own the fireplace feature or the roasting basket, I only use the drop in grill, which works quite well as long as your down to coals, if you still have allot of wood the food has a tendency to become a little over done.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 30, 2012)

MishMouse said:


> For me I don't own the fireplace feature or the roasting basket, I only use the drop in grill, which works quite well as long as your down to coals, if you still have allot of wood the food has a tendency to become a little over done.


Thats what i was referring to, the grill.


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## MishMouse (Oct 30, 2012)

I though you were referring to rotisery option.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 30, 2012)

After 5 year using this stove i have both and have used neither,but plan to use both as soon as it gets cold here. With solar assist here im well into november before i need serious heat. Then only sporadically.


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## begreen (Oct 30, 2012)

Seeing I don't have a steak in this conversation, I have no beef being without a grille. But I have had both top loader and front loader and although I thought it would bug me, it doesn't. Not at all. Actually, I think I have more hair on my arms with the front loader.


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## redhorse (Oct 30, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> 27 hours once still enough hot coals to throw in some wood and open the air.
> redhorse :have you used he fireplace feature or the roasting basket?


 
No, don't have either one.  Wanted the fireplace screen but have some smoke allergies in the house so decided not to go with it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 30, 2012)

redhorse said:


> No, don't have either one. Wanted the fireplace screen but have some smoke allergies in the house so decided not to go with it.


Of course you use the fireplace screen with the bypass door open so your not in the efficient mode,but for the few times you use it, its the ambiance of an open fire.


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## weatherguy (Oct 30, 2012)

You guys have me considered the TL-300 for my upstairs fireplace now.


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## raybonz (Oct 30, 2012)

weatherguy said:


> You guys have me considered the TL-300 for my upstairs fireplace now.


The TL-300 certainly has my attention! http://www.harmanstoves.com/Products/TL300-Wood-Stove.aspx They claim up to 18 hr. burn time and large firebox with a reasonable MSRP as well..

BTW heavy thunderstorms here right now!
Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 31, 2012)

weatherguy said:


> You guys have me considered the TL-300 for my upstairs fireplace now.


If you can see one in operation somewhere ,that would help with your decision. There are a lot of good stoves out there,when i was gettin started woodburning in 2008 i bought a cheap $500 non epa stove from TSC store. That almost poisoned me against wood stoves with its 3 hour burn times . I thought geez this is like a second job and what do you do overnight. But because i have wood coming out my ears and need to dispose of it i pressed on and decided to go to the top of the line with one more try.
What a difference a hi-tech well built stove can make. Turned me into a wood burner for life.


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## Todd (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't know, I love the options for the TL300 but that combustion chamber still scares me.


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## MishMouse (Oct 31, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> If you can see one in operation somewhere ,that would help with your decision. There are a lot of good stoves out there,when i was gettin started woodburning in 2008 i bought a cheap $500 non epa stove from TSC store. That almost poisoned me against wood stoves with its 3 hour burn times . I thought geez this is like a second job and what do you do overnight.


 
I did the samething when I started wood burning, I bought a small Drolet stove (rated at 1K sq ft) that had max 3 hour burn times, I had to run it around 700 to even get the basement into the 60's.  When I ran it at 500 it plugged the chimney in about a month. (See some of my original posts where I discuss my headaches).  That year I have to admit I did lose weight constantly running up and down the stairs to add wood and keep it above 600. Overnight burns were a pipe dream, I had to get up every three hours to re-load it then spend 1/2-1 hour gettting it going. Last night the stove was running at 425 on setting one and the basement was 77 and the upstairs was 75.  9 hours later the stove was at 375, the basement was at 75 and the upstairs was at 73, outside temps was 22. Still had plenty of coals left, could have easily went another 5 hours.

One of the things to understand with this stove is that a higher air setting doesn't mean you are going to get more heat.  After I get the stove/pipe heated up to maintain the afterburn I run it on setting one and get more heat doing that then it does on setting 3.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 31, 2012)

Todd said:


> I don't know, I love the options for the TL300 but that combustion chamber still scares me.


Nothing to be scared of,it works better than the design with all the tubes with the holes IMO.  Its designed to give as even heat output as a cat stove WITHOUT the cat. Other types of stoves (non cat) do not throw heat as evenly throughout the burn.


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## raybonz (Oct 31, 2012)

Exactly what does this firedome do? Is it expensive and/or difficult to replace and how long should it last? Couldn't find much info on the firedome..

Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 31, 2012)

raybonz said:


> Exactly what does this firedome do? Is it expensive and/or difficult to replace and how long should it last? Couldn't find much info on the firedome..
> 
> Ray


The firedome is a ceramic structure in the bottom -back of the stove When the bypass door is closed it forces the flue gas previously exiting the top of the firebox down and into the firedome where super heated fresh air is introduced into it. If internal stove temp is 1100 or above it ignites  the gas and with the aid of some hi-temp refractory material inside the firedome burns extremely hot consuming virtually all the remaining wood gas. This fragile refractory material is up inside so its well protected,if you take the flue pipe off and look down you can see it.


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## raybonz (Oct 31, 2012)

Just hope it holds up unlike the VC's that were expensive and difficult to replace and didn't seem to last too long.. Too bad because they do make a beautiful stove. Supposedly the new ones are much better and only time will tell..

Ray


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 31, 2012)

raybonz said:


> Just hope it holds up unlike the VC's that were expensive and difficult to replace and didn't seem to last too long.. Too bad because they do make a beautiful stove. Supposedly the new ones are much better and only time will tell..
> 
> Ray


I have mine 5 years and it still works like new,i checked it and its not dirty either, SO im hoping to go at least 10 years before i even check it again, I understand a replacement kit is about $300 so if it goes 10 years thats $30 a year.


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