# Progress Hybrid Install and Experience



## barnaclebob (Nov 29, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to check in here now so I don't seem like a flake when I really need help in the coming months...

My wife and I just bought an awesome house built somewhere between 1909 and 1920.  It then went through several renovations up through the 40's including being raised and a walkout basement added, and a second floor added.  Unless anything bad happens we'll close mid December and move in shortly after.

There is a brick chimney with what appears to be a clay liner that was probably used for a boiler because there is no fireplace.  It runs from the basement up through the roof in the center of the house located on the windward side of the roof ridge which I have read is preferable on the wiki.  Currently there is a pellet stove piped into the chimney and I assume nothing else because the high efficiency gas furnace is only 6 years old and has separate input/output lines through the side of the house.





The first floor has a perfect place for a wood stove that should be able to send heat up the stairs to the second floor bedrooms as well.  It will be located where the large china cabinet is in the picture and I believe the chimney is somewhere behind that wall.  The pellet stove will have to be disconnected and I can make good use of it in my detached garage/workshop space after adding a chimney.




Right now the Woostock Progress Hybrid is the leading contender because they look awesome, perform well, and their customer service seems to be awesome.  Second choice was the VC Defiant flexburn but after reading about the history of the company I'm a little weary of them. We will probably be buying in spring when they hopefully go on sale. 

I'll be getting a full chimney inspection so that I can determine if the clay liner is good or I need to add a new liner.  Then I'll need to figure out how to pipe the new thimble? into the chimney on the first floor and add a chimney cap of some kind.  After that it should be pretty straightforward to build the hearth pad but I may need some advice when it comes to a wood shed as the only viable location for it appears to be on a decent slope.

This forum has already been a great resource.


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2017)

Good plan to get the chimney inspection. It may need a stainless liner to bring it up to code for wood burning. Looks like a very nice home. Woodstock has perpetual sales and prices have been going up steadily on the soapstone models. Waiting may find the future sales price is closer to the current list price.


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## Supersurvey (Nov 29, 2017)

Welcome to the group.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 29, 2017)

They should run some bigger sale in a few months..if you can stand to wait, that is.


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## sutphenj (Nov 29, 2017)

Just a heads up WS prices are not going up at a faster rate than the other major manufactures out there.


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2017)

Actually their soapstone stoves they seem to be going up faster. The Progress has gone up over $1000 in the past 5 years. The Fireview likewise. Maybe good quality soapstone is getting harder to find.


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## sutphenj (Nov 29, 2017)

begreen said:


> Actually their soapstone stoves they seem to be going up faster. The Progress has gone up over $1000 in the past 5 years. The Fireview likewise. Maybe quality soapstone is getting harder to find.


Over the introductory launch pricing sure


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## begreen (Nov 29, 2017)

The Fireview has been out for decades.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Nov 30, 2017)

barnaclebob said:


> ... Then I'll need to figure out how to pipe the new thimble? into the chimney on the first floor and add a chimney cap of some kind.  .



That's a job best left to professionals.  Punching a hole in a 100 year old chimney is not the time for on-the-job training.




barnaclebob said:


> .I may need some advice when it comes to a wood shed as the only viable location for it appears to be on a decent slope..




I have a neighbor who has a firewood shed on a steep slope.  All it takes is the right design.

You really need to think about how much wood you'll need.  That will drive how big your shed, or sheds, need to be.  Whatever you think you need, double it.  

Why?  Most people burn green wood and don't know it.  Most firewood companies sell green wood. I suspect some of them know it, and some don't.

I don't know how long it takes to properly season wood in your climate, but I suspect it's a lot more than the few months that most firewood sellers give their wood.   You really need a place for this year's wood, and next year's wood.


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## barnaclebob (Nov 30, 2017)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> That's a job best left to professionals.  Punching a hole in a 100 year old chimney is not the time for on-the-job training.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are the main concerns with punching a hole in a chimney?  I'm pretty capable DIY but just haven't tackled this job yet.  The chimney is pretty small all the way to the basement but as long as the whole thing doesn't collapse I don't think I could do that much damage.  But again I don't know what I don't know yet so there's that.

I think I can make a stair stepped woodshed work.  I'll post some pics to the wood shed forum and solicit feedback in spring.  There are some firewood dealers around here that seem to be reputable but I'll test their wood before they unload it, especially the first year's wood when I'll only have about 6 months.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 1, 2017)

barnaclebob said:


> What are the main concerns with punching a hole in a chimney?  ....   But again I don't know what I don't know yet so there's that.



Collapsing the structure comes to mind.  It's like playing Jenga with high stakes.   I'm pretty capable at just about any home project, but I don't think I'd tackle that.


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## barnaclebob (May 3, 2018)

Alright, I've asked a couple more questions on other threads and you guys have given me some great advice.  This seems like a good place for progress pics.  The progress hybrid will be delivered Monday, chimney installer has been chosen, and the hearth construction started.  Here are some pics of the hearth progress...

Masking Tape Layout


2 layers of 1/2" durock for .78 of the .8 required R value


About 2.5" of stone and cement should take care of the rest.



Yes the dog painting will be moved.  The outlet will be closely monitored for signs of thermal issues as well. Its not really necessary so I can cap the wires and cover it with a plate if needed.

Next up is to grout the stones with some more concrete and then place the stove on it Monday or later if we can't lift it with whoever shows up to help.  Wood trim will be added after the chimney is installed.


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## begreen (May 3, 2018)

The outlet shouldn't be a problem. Is that the house thermostat on the left? If so, that might need a new home if you still want heat in remote parts of the house with the stove going.

How many sq ft will the stove be heating?


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## barnaclebob (May 3, 2018)

The first and second floors are 2000ft total with another 900 in the finished basement which doesnt need to be kept very warm.  Ill probably have to run the furnace fan  to distribute the warm air and relocating the thermostat is an option if needed.


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## Squirrel1410 (May 4, 2018)

You’re doing almost exactly the same thing I did last year. And our house is 1923, so maybe a tad newer, but close. I even had an outlet in the same spot (I removed mine). Our thermostat is close to the stove (but not as close as yours). It’s nice, because when I’m using the stove It keeps the heat from kicking on, so I know that all burn time is $ saved. 

As for punching into the chimney, I watched the guys do it with a masonry chisel, and thought it would have been really easy to just do it myself. We needed a stainless liner put in, and they almost couldn’t fit the 6” with the existing clay liner. Hopefully you can save money by not needing that, but I was told I needed it (by the town and the chimney guys). Unfortunately they busted out the old cast iron clean-out door (which I really liked) and just cemented their own clean-out for the new pipe. Oh well.


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## barnaclebob (May 4, 2018)

Squirrel1410 said:


> As for punching into the chimney, I watched the guys do it with a masonry chisel, and thought it would have been really easy to just do it myself. We needed a stainless liner put in, and they almost couldn’t fit the 6” with the existing clay liner. Hopefully you can save money by not needing that, but I was told I needed it (by the town and the chimney guys). Unfortunately they busted out the old cast iron clean-out door (which I really liked) and just cemented their own clean-out for the new pipe. Oh well.



We will be running a completely new Class A chimney next to the old one because a new liner wouldn't fit and there is a perfect cavity (like a mini elevator shaft) that goes through the second floor to the attic.


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## barnaclebob (May 8, 2018)

Yesterday was the big day.  Getting the stove home and off the trailer wasn't too difficult with a come-along but the original pallet looked like it was damaged in shipping and the shipping company put it on another full sized pallet which put a few kinks in our plans.  This thing is heavy and two people could barely budge it on a slick steel trailer bed.

We had rented an electric stair climbing dolly but that wouldn't work with the larger pallet.  In retrospect I should have just dragged the crate off of the new pallet but at the time decided that taking the stove apart to reduce its would be easier.  The main concern was that the back end falling off might damage the stove.  I could have put a 2x4 scrap underneath to step it down but hindsight is 20/20

Taking the top and side trim off the stove was easy enough but anything inside of that has some sealant applied to it and I didn't want to break those seals. But with the top, doors, bypass door, some interior soapstone panels, and glass removed it seemed barely light enough to lift up the stairs with 4 people. I went out and bought two sets of shoulder harness moving straps and started texting neighbors.  Once the top of the stove is removed I think the main firebox is not attached to the base so put some ratchet straps around the whole thing to keep it together.

Me, my wife and two neighbors, equipped with two sets of shoulder dolly straps, were able to get it up the 6 stairs and onto the hearth with plenty of grunting.  It would not have been possible without the shoulder dolly straps.  We did put a couple small scratches in the side soapstone but there is probably some solution to make them less visible.

Anyway, my wife and I can get the final placement and reassembly done today and then it's time for the chimney install.

Oh, if you ever need to remove the glass you'll need a 12 pointM8 driver bit.  That took a special trip and I had to buy a 100 piece set but now I must have every driver bit known to man.




You can see the scratches on the top left of the side panel in the above picture.  I can live with them even if we can't reduce the appearance.


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## Squirrel1410 (May 8, 2018)

Nice! That hearthpad looks great with the coloration of the stove. They go together really well.


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## begreen (May 8, 2018)

Can't really see the scratches in the picture. If they are light they might buff out with very fine 000 or 0000 steel wool. 

Can you post a picture of the rear heat shield once it's installed?


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## barnaclebob (May 8, 2018)

begreen said:


> Can't really see the scratches in the picture. If they are light they might buff out with very fine 000 or 0000 steel wool.
> 
> Can you post a picture of the rear heat shield once it's installed?



Yeah that's what Woodstock recommended too.  They are more prominent when viewed directly from the side but still not that bad.

Anything in particular you want to see on the rear heat shield?  I've got to get that on first today so we can get the stove in its final position and verify the rear clearance.


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## bfitz3 (May 8, 2018)

I miss the dog picture. It’s wonderful! I suppose it’s a small sacrifice for the PH install though. Happy burning!


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## begreen (May 8, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> Anything in particular you want to see on the rear heat shield? I've got to get that on first today so we can get the stove in its final position and verify the rear clearance.


Maybe a before and after mounting the shield on the air control side would be helpful to folks seeing the difference.


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## barnaclebob (May 9, 2018)

Shes all put back together now.  Here is a bunch of pics of the internals and some tips in case anyone else decides to shed some weight to move one of these beasts.



Finished product.  The color is charcoal, it looks blackish in some pics but that's just the lighting i guess.  Didn't even need to shim one of the legs so I guess my hearth is flat enough.



I could never find close ups of the details before I bought so here is one.  I need to back the set screw (top center hole in the corner trim) out a little bit and tighten the threaded rods (pic of that below) so the top lines up with the side trim better.



Emblem detail.





Rufus gets to stay above the stove until the pipe gets installed, then he moves to another nearby wall.





Under the hood.





Bypass door closed.





Bypass door open.



Cat close up.



Threaded rods that hold the top on.  Tighten these last or you deform the whole thing and make it difficult to install the window or corner trim.  Be very careful removing the window as the panes can fall out.  There is a youtube video of how to replace the window, watch that first.  But one difference from the video is that it looks like they started gluing the upper soapstone panel to the fire box so you don't need to worry about that falling out.  Be careful though and don't assume any of the soapstone is glued on until you can verify it.  You need an M8 12 point bit to remove the window surround.



The cleanest the firebox will ever be. The back soapstone blocks can be removed by sliding them up and pulling from the bottom.

I have a before pic with the rear heat shield bit forgot to take an after.  Ill do that and post a pic tomorrow.

The ash pan and heat shields went on with no problems and no extra wood support was needed.  Just follow the directions and hold one end up, get a bolt or screw in, the do the same on the other end.

Now I have to wait until the end of may before I can light it up because the chimney guy is booked that far out.


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## barnaclebob (May 9, 2018)

Here is the before and after of the air control and the rear heat shield. It's nothing special really, just a slot cut in the heat shield. The lever slightly rubs the heat shield but slighly bending the standoff spacers should have it lined up exactly.


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## begreen (May 9, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> Here is the before and after of the air control and the rear heat shield. It's nothing special really, just a slot cut in the heat shield. The lever slightly rubs the heat shield but slighly bending the standoff spacers should have it lined up exactly.
> 
> View attachment 226559
> View attachment 226560


Thanks. I'm surprised they sell the stove without the rear heat shield. It looks quite integral and cleans up the backside look. Not many folks are going to want to cope with a 36" rear clearance without the rear shield.

I'm also surprised they haven't replaced the brass hex-stock bypass handle. That cheapens the look on such a handsome stove. It's the first thing I'd replace.

PS: You folks did a nice job on the hearth. It looks great.


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## barnaclebob (May 9, 2018)

I dont mind the brass handle and if it gets a nice patina on it that would look really good I think.  Some kind of brass plug in the ends might clean up the look a little though.


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## begreen (May 9, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> I dont mind the brass handle and if it gets a nice patina on it that would look really good I think.


Probably just me, it  looks crude to my eye. Like something grabbed off the machinist's shelf.


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## barnaclebob (May 9, 2018)

begreen said:


> Probably just me, it  looks crude to my eye. Like something grabbed off the machinist's shelf.



Its probably a piece of stock but they did chamfer the ends very nicely and the finish quality is good.  There is also some lettering engraved or milled into the handle to say if the bypass is opened or closed.


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## begreen (May 9, 2018)

Will you be firing that beauty up before next fall if we get a cool day in June?


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## barnaclebob (May 9, 2018)

begreen said:


> Will you be firing that beauty up before next fall?



Definitely.  It gets cool in the evenings through July here so I should be able to do the break in burns with the doors open and some fans on.  My wife always fights to keep the heat off in fall until she is under a pile of blankets on the couch.  I don't think that will be the case this fall however...

I'm still a little concerned how the stove will interact with the large hood in the kitchen once the house is closed up in fall though.  My house is old but appears to be pretty well insulated and sealed based on the gas bills.  Its not as good as a modern house but I surely wouldn't call it drafty by any means.


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## begreen (May 9, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> Definitely.  It gets cool in the evenings through July here so I should be able to do the break in burns with the doors open and some fans on.  My wife always fights to keep the heat off in fall until she is under a pile of blankets on the couch.  I don't think that will be the case this fall however...
> 
> I'm still a little concerned how the stove will interact with the large hood in the kitchen once the house is closed up in fall though.  My house is old but appears to be pretty well insulated and sealed based on the gas bills.  Its not as good as a modern house but I surely wouldn't call it drafty by any means.


Commercial range hoods can affect the stove and in some cases reverse draft. If so an outside air kit could be a necessity. Once you have the flue system in place turn on the kitchen fan and place a candle flame, smoking punk, or cigarette near the flue exit of the stove and observe. If the flue still drafts then it should be ok. If the draft reverses then plan on an OAK or some form of fresh air makeup (ERV/HRV) to compensate for the fan.


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## fire_man (May 11, 2018)

I hired  movers to bring in my Progress and they charged $300 to move it  it 100 feet (up hill) from the Driveway to the hearth. Two little guys using shoulder straps carried the uncrated stove all by themselves and they made it look easy. My back hurts thinking about it.

They also moved the Fireview to the basement.

Your gonna love the Progress.


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## barnaclebob (May 11, 2018)

fire_man said:


> I hired  movers to bring in my Progress and they charged $300 to move it  it 100 feet (up hill) from the Driveway to the hearth. Two little guys using shoulder straps carried the uncrated stove all by themselves and they made it look easy. My back hurts thinking about it.
> 
> They also moved the Fireview to the basement.
> 
> Your gonna love the Progress.



I looked into companies that move safes and the only one that got back to me wanted $550 and couldn't move until May 23.  Another full service moving company said it would be about the same.  After seeing how cut rate movers operate first hand there is no way I would trust them to touch anything over 300lbs.  They just barely were able to get my cooking stove that was 350lbs up my front stairs and that was with me and a friend helping.  Trailer rental, dolly rental, and shoulder straps cost about $175 and I own the shoulder straps now.


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## fire_man (May 11, 2018)

I had lots of trouble finding someone that would even do the job.I jumped right on it for $300.
My Palladian took me a full day to move but that I did myself.

I still can't believe two guys moved that Progress.


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## Joyboy (May 12, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> Shes all put back together now.  Here is a bunch of pics of the internals and some tips in case anyone else decides to shed some weight to move one of these beasts.
> 
> View attachment 226543
> 
> ...


Nice job with all the pictures. When I got mine I was in such a hurry to get it fired up that I hardly took any. To late now. Lol.  Congrats on a awesome stove!


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## barnaclebob (May 31, 2018)

I was hoping this post would be of my first fire in the new stove but of course the house has to throw me a curve ball after delivering a watermelon with the shaft through the second floor. This is what the chimney installers found when they cut the hole in the ceiling and were unable to proceed.  Time to open up the ceiling more and sister some joists.





The piece of wood running left to right (parallel to the larger beams) isn't structural as its a 2x4 turned flat to support the drywall.  The joist seems to have some 2x2 "ledger" running parallel to it up against the sub floor so I'm not sure what that's about.  I'm at work so I can only see the pictures my wife sends me.


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## Squirrel1410 (Jun 1, 2018)

Wow odd there’s a joist so close to the wall...


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## barnaclebob (Jun 1, 2018)

Squirrel1410 said:


> Wow odd there’s a joist so close to the wall...



Yeah I was assuming there would be no joist there but its an older house so anything is possible.  Turns out the "joist" is a 2x6 with a 2x4 half overlapping and nailed to it to make a janky 2x8.  Its possible the whole floor is like this

Also the joists aren't contacting what I'm pretty sure are structural exposed beams in some of the places that I see.  It could be that the house has flexed and gaps formed.  Most of the floors aren't level.  The room span is 25 feet and there is no way a real 2x8 can do that without flexing let alone a janky "2x8" so the exposed beams have to be taking load somehow, just maybe not distributed as evenly as it should be.

My plan is to shim the offending joist to the beams then cut the joist at a place where i can use  some blocking to tie it to the next joist and that wall.  I had my wife go to the floor above that and jump around.  The 2x4 part of the joist flexes a little bit but the 2x6 part doesn't so it cant be taking that much load.


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## Squirrel1410 (Jun 2, 2018)

You could make a box to distribute the weight around, just like when doing so for windows in a wall... have to take a lot more of the ceiling out though, re-drywall etc. maybe you’ll make it even stronger if that 2x4 is flexing. Some joist brackets/hangers would help with that.


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## barnaclebob (Jun 4, 2018)

Squirrel1410 said:


> You could make a box to distribute the weight around, just like when doing so for windows in a wall... have to take a lot more of the ceiling out though, re-drywall etc. maybe you’ll make it even stronger if that 2x4 is flexing. Some joist brackets/hangers would help with that.



Yes thats what I did.  I took the ceiling out to the next joist, reinforced that newly exposed joist, put a ledger board on the wall, shimmed the joists to the beam, cut and boxed it out with joist hangers.  This whole area of the house seems to be a bit of a mess structurally as the walls, some of which i know are load bearing, don't really line up from one floor to the next.  In any case, the kerf didn't pinch my sawzall blade or open up so it probably wasn't carrying much load to begin with and its stronger than it was before.  Pics to come once I get it fully patched up.


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## barnaclebob (Jun 12, 2018)

No smoke yet but at least my house looks normal again.  I was able to match the unique brushed texture of our ceiling reasonably well and the chimney is installed to right below the roof.  It was threatening rain last Saturday and after 5PM so the chimney guys said it would be best to cone back on Wed rather than cut a hole in the roof.  Luckily I had tried to fit the stove pipe to the stove after the last visit and found out that it needed the adapter from Woodstock because this double walled chimney wouldn't slip over the stove outlet.

Forecast for wed (tomorrow) is iffy so my fingers are crossed.



My neighbor guesses that these wonky "joists" used to be the floor of the attic before the second floor was added to the house.  You can see the current brick chimney here.  Some of the grout was loose.



Added a header beam, sistered the next joist back to the exposed beams, and boxed off the cut ends.



Drywalled back up.



Taped, mudded, trim reinstalled, textured, painted, and stove pipe installed.

All thats left is for the chimney guys to finish the install through the roof and to add the trim around the cement.


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## barnaclebob (Jun 15, 2018)

A stove comes to life:




The chimney install was finished yesterday despite the rain because the chimney guys brought a canopy to put up on the roof.  They said to wait a day for some seal to dry before having a fire.  So today I made a small fire with 4 short splits of some kind of soft feeling wood.  I don't think I got the cat to engage even though the temps on the stove top got up to around 300 which woodstock says is hot enough so I did most of the burn with the bypass open.  Maybe there just wasn't much smoke to combust though.

I'm really glad I thought to just keep the ash pan lid in the closet vs storing on the pan while I waited for the chimney to be installed.  I definitely would have forgotten to remove it and did open the ash pan door for like 5 seconds to check when I thought I had forgotten to remove it.

The stove seemed plenty easy to drive and the flames shut off right away when the control lever was closed.

The smell was noticeable but not too bad with the windows and doors open.  Ill increase the fire size by 50 to 75 percent again today after work.


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## begreen (Jun 15, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> A stove comes to life:
> 
> The smell was noticeable but not too bad with the windows and doors open.  Ill increase the fire size by 50 to 75 percent again today after work.



Very nice. That has to be one of the few PHs this far away from VT. What was the shipping cost?

 I'm looking forward to your next winter reports. It's ironic that the install happened on one of the very few rainy days we've had this spring, but good that you waited. Better get that second fire done tonight. It's going to get pretty warm by Sunday.


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## barnaclebob (Jun 15, 2018)

begreen said:


> Very nice. That has to be one of the few PHs this far away from VT. What was the shipping cost?
> 
> I'm looking forward to your next winter reports. It's ironic that the install happened on one of the very few rainy days we've had this spring, but good that you waited. Better get that second fire done tonight. It's going to get pretty warm by Sunday.




I think the shipping was about $750 before the $400 discount.  That was for the main crate, the ash bucket, and another accessory package with the ash pan and a few other things.  Waiting for the April sale probably saved me about $1000 including the accessories they threw in.

It actually wasn't raining at my house too bad until they mostly finished up.  I think we were in a rain shadow from the Olympics.


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## Squirrel1410 (Jun 15, 2018)

Looks beautiful, great job handling that ceiling issue, and not being able to use the actual chimney. 

Yeah that break-in smell is definitely... unique.


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## barnaclebob (Aug 27, 2018)

The hearth is now fully complete with the install of the trim and touching up the paint on the wall.  

The wood is stained cherry with a chamfer.  The splines are walnut.  I originally wanted to avoid stains to keep the wood natural looking but it would have been too light.  Finished in place with about 4 or 5 coats off satin poly using 0000 steel wool between coats.






The joinery is rated at about 2 to 3 feet.  This was my first try at "real" joinery.  Dont be afraid to try it, it doesn't need to be perfect.


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## begreen (Aug 27, 2018)

That looks great Bob. It finished out nicely.

question - is that the central heating thermostat behind the stove? If so, it may need to be relocated on the other side of the wall.


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## Squirrel1410 (Aug 27, 2018)

Looks great! I love the walnut splines - definitely a nice touch.


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## barnaclebob (Aug 27, 2018)

begreen said:


> question - is that the central heating thermostat behind the stove? If so, it may need to be relocated on the other side of the wall.



Yeah ill fix that problem when it happens.  There are a few options for relocating the thermostat when it becomes an issue.


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## barnaclebob (Oct 10, 2018)

Someone asked about how I was liking the stove so I'll throw some updates in.  This might be bit rambly so sorry in advance.

So far my wife and I have been playing around with how to run the stove and we've been loving it so far.  We've tried smaller fires to just keep the house warm, loaded it up all the way and let the logs get going good for hot fires, and done hot reloads of various sizes.  We get great heat distribution up to the second floor through the nearby stairs.  Both floors are 1000 sq ft.  No noticeable heat into the basement as can be expected.

The stove is very easy to operate and seems to have about 4 informal settings on the damper.  1: wide open to start a fire and get the logs caught, 2, shut down half to 3/4 to heat the unit up. Basically turn it down so there are still strong flames but the logs aren't getting blasted with air.  3: damper just cracked open during a burn to heat the stove up a little more or encourage some secondary action 4: shut down all the way for long burning.

The stove temp with my setup also seems to only be able to be increased until the logs burn down.  Essentially if you load it up and let it get above about 475, secondaries will kick into high gear and heat the stove up to about 550 where it will stay until it runs out of fuel.  On a hot reload where you pack it full, the secondaries seem to start up no matter what after a an hour to a couple hours even when you shut down the damper immediately.  When it gets like this it really cranks out heat and has no problem heating our whole house when the temps are in the mid to high 40's at night and I doubt it will have any problems in winter either.  We had to crack windows and doors and it was still very warm.

After a very warm weekend in the house I've been trying to figure out how to run it at lower temps so we don't waste wood or sweat to death.  It seems like the best method so far is to load the firebox about half full, get the fire started, turn down the damper to slowly get the stove up to temp, then shut it down for the rest of the burn when the stove top temp hits 300.  Depending on the time the fire started after work I'll throw a few logs on before bed, let them catch a little then shut it down.  The stove will be out in the morning but still warm to the touch and the house is still comfortable.

The longest burn we've gotten was about 9 hours overnight after a full hot reload and closing it down immediately.  There were still plenty of coals after the 9 hours and the stove was still making useful heat but we added some logs at the point.  The wood was a "northwest blend" probably a mix of Fir, vine maple, and whatever else grows around here, nothing really good like oak.

As discussed in another thread the wall behind my Selkirk double wall pipe was measured at 165 degrees with an IR thermometer after the stove had been cranking for several hours.  Still within the safe limits but not by much.  Not sure if I'm going to add another heat shield or not yet.


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## Chas0218 (Oct 10, 2018)

barnaclebob said:


> After a very warm weekend in the house I've been trying to figure out how to run it at lower temps so we don't waste wood or sweat to death.



Let me know when you figure this out. haha


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## begreen (Oct 10, 2018)

Smaller fires is the trick. We had a 6 hr power outage yesterday which started before the heatpump came off the nightime setback temp.  By 11am the house was at 66F and my wife was complaining about being cold. I reluctantly started a fire considering it was 54F outside. The fire was made with 2 smallish 4" splits and two 7-8" splits. The house got up to 71º and stayed there. Power came on a few hours after I had started the fire so I just let it burn out.


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## Chas0218 (Oct 10, 2018)

begreen said:


> Smaller fires is the trick. We had a 6 hr power outage yesterday which started before the heatpump came off the nightime setback temp.  By 11am the house was at 66F and my wife was complaining about being cold. I reluctantly started a fire considering it was 54F outside. The fire was made with 2 smallish 4" splits and two 7-8" splits. The house got up to 71º and stayed there. Power came on a few hours after I had started the fire so I just let it burn out.


I've tried smaller fires but my chimney doesn't seem to get warm enough. The single wall surface temp just before it goes out the house to the tee is around 170* with small fires and around 280* with large fires. I don't think that is hot enough with smaller fires and I really don't want stage 3 creosote build up.


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## begreen (Oct 10, 2018)

We had good secondary combustion which surprised me considering how warm it was outside. Probe flue temp settled in at around 400F. With a surface temp of 170, the flue gases should be above 250F. If the wood is dry it should be ok.


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## Chas0218 (Oct 10, 2018)

begreen said:


> We had good secondary combustion which surprised me considering how warm it was outside. Probe flue temp settled in at around 400F. With a surface temp of 170, the flue gases should be above 250F. If the wood is dry it should be ok.


Good to know thanks.


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## barnaclebob (Apr 4, 2019)

Well my first season of burning is pretty much complete unless we get another cold night.  The sun really warms up my westerly exposed house right before sunset so I doubt I'll need to burn anymore.  We went through only about 1.5 cords but there were several weeks where I was rationing wood so we didn't run out.  Still 3/4 of a cord in the shed for next season.  I was really surprised at how quickly we all of the sudden didn't need to burn or the house would get way too hot, even with a small fire.  I'll be increasing the wood shed by 50% this year to about 3.5 cords and should be able to store about 1.5 years worth in that.  The type of wood we have around here seems to dry pretty quick, solar kilning is an option, and the shed gets great sun so I think I'll be ok with that size shed.

I had to clean the cat for the stove about 2 or 3 times with a quick vacuum from the shop vac.

I also don't need to relocate the thermostat.  If the stove is warm enough to heat up the thermostat then the rest of the house aside from the basement is warm enough to not need the furnace.  I'll probably be replacing the pellet stove in the basement with a natural gas "wood" stove this summer so my renter can be more comfortable down there and not rely on portable electric oil heaters.


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## barnaclebob (May 29, 2019)

I just did my first chimney cleanout with a Sooteater for chimney liners: Gardus SLK-24.  This product definitely cannot make the very sharp bend to get up a top exit configured progress hybrid so I took my pipe off to clean the chimney out.  I got maybe half a quart of mostly soot and a few sand grained size small black shiny flakes out of the pipe and another half a quart out of the rest of the chimney so I guess my wood and burning techniques are good enough.


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## barnaclebob (Oct 31, 2019)

Ok, ive got a few updates now that I'm burning for season 2.

First is that I removed the flapper smoke dam thing because it was getting in the way of loading more wood and I have plenty of draft.   No smoke spillage issues after removal.

Second thing is that I installed a heat shield behind my double wall pipe to reduce wall temps.  Even though my stove meets clearance requirements I could barely hold my hand on the wall during a hot burn and wasnt comfortable that it would be safe in the event of a chimney fire or if I ever forget to turn the stove down on startup.





The wall is now only warm to the touch.

Finally, I'm burning much better wood this year and it makes a big difference.  Someone near me took down 22 100ft+ perfectly straight, clear, and tight grained douglas fir trees and I bought 2 cords of it.  Wish I had room for more.   This wood burns a little cooler for much longer than random mix I burned last year.  I can easily get overnight burns now and do a hot reload in the morning if I wanted but its not cold enough for that.  I havent needed to do a full hot reload yet but 11 or 12 hours should be possible instead of about 8 or 9 before.  The wood is almost too clear so it nests together tightly which can make starting fires more difficult but is great for hot reloads.  I'll definitely put effort into finding good doug fir next year, maybe the same guy hasnt sold it all yet.  Its about the best wood you can consistenly find up here.


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2019)

Doug fir seasons quickly once split and stacked. I get our doug fir in early spring and load the shed with it. It has consistently come in at around 18% moisture content by Nov. 1.

Have you considered getting a probe flue thermometer to track flue temps?


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## barnaclebob (Oct 31, 2019)

begreen said:


> Doug fir seasons quickly once split and stacked. I get our doug fir in early spring and load the shed with it. It has consistently come in at around 18% moisture content by Nov. 1.
> 
> Have you considered getting a probe flue thermometer to track flue temps?



Yeah he brought the trees down early spring and by late spring it already had that nice dry tone to it.  Tested in the high teens last week.

Ive thought about a flue thermometer but i dont like how they are just a metal probe which conducts heat to a coil thermometer.  Do those still work well with double wall pipe?


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2019)

barnaclebob said:


> Yeah he brought the trees down early spring and by late spring it already had that nice dry tone to it.  Tested in the high teens last week.
> 
> Ive thought about a flue thermometer but i dont like how they are just a metal probe which conducts heat to a coil thermometer.  Do those still work well with double wall pipe?


A probe thermometer is all that will provide an accurate reading with double-wall stove pipe.


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## barnaclebob (Nov 1, 2019)

begreen said:


> A probe thermometer is all that will provide an accurate reading with double-wall stove pipe.



The Condar probe thermometer is the only one I can find.  Do those work well?  

They arent really a probe thermometer though because the probe just conducts heat to the bimetal coil outside of the pipe. 

 But I guess they are calibrated for that and it cant really be worse than a normal stove top thermometer.


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## Highbeam (Nov 1, 2019)

Condar probe meters are the best option unless you want to use an electronic wired thermometer with a remote panel display


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## Woody Stover (Nov 1, 2019)

barnaclebob said:


> I installed a heat shield behind my double wall pipe to reduce wall temps.  Even though my stove meets clearance requirements I could barely hold my hand on the wall during a hot burn





begreen said:


> Have you considered getting a probe flue thermometer to track flue temps?


I don't have experience with double-wall, but I'd think that with clearances met, the wall shouldn't be getting that hot unless you are firing your stove and flue  pretty hard, as in a strong hybrid burn with lots of secondary action. I'd get a probe in there to see what flue temps are. I'm not sure what kind of temps the double-wall connector is rated for..? (Or single-wall for that matter.)
I think that stainless liner or class A chimney is safe below 1000 sustained interior temp. I don't think you have to worry about the class A...probably starts further up, at the support box.
I wouldn't think you would be burning on high a lot, in your moderate climate...or are you getting the hot flue when you are burning in a new load, not when cruising?


> tight grained douglas fir trees....This wood burns a little cooler for much longer than random mix I burned last year.


You bring up something I've been wondering about, as I try to get the hang of finding the "Goldilocks zone" with my SIL's new secondary-burn stove. When you say the more dense wood "burns cooler," I guess it's because it gasses in a slower, more controlled manner than the lower-BTU stuff you burned? With the low-BTU wood, it's more likely I'll get too much of the load gassing early on, then stove temp goes higher than I'd like.


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## barnaclebob (Nov 1, 2019)

The measured temps of the wall that I've taken are right at the limits of what acceptible to UL I guess but not to me.  The stoves temp is pretty much only controlled by the amount of wood you have in it but even doing a hot reload half full it will put out some pretty good secondary action for a couple hours which caused the pipe and wall to get hot.  Once the stove is up to temp you pretty much have to have the air control fully closed or it will really take off.

The heat on the wall primarily comes from the collar at the top of the stove and the bottom foot of the pipe.  Above that its not so bad.  The adapter from Woodstock for my chimney might also be increasing the heat because there is a small area (~.5") where the pipe is effectively single walled.  In any case its fixed now with the extra shield so I'm not concerned.  But I did just order a pipe thermometer to see if that gives me better info for startup and closing the bypass.

I agree with you on the nicer higher BTU wood.  Additionally it nests together tighter because its so straight which I think helps regulate the burn.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 1, 2019)

barnaclebob said:


> The stoves temp is pretty much only controlled by the amount of wood you have in it but even doing a hot reload half full it will put out some pretty good secondary action for a couple hours....Once the stove is up to temp you pretty much have to have the air control fully closed or it will really take off.


Huh, that sounds like my experience with the new secondary stove..gotta be careful not to get too much wood gassing. I was under the impression that one could go to a cat-only burn with the PH at any time, just by cutting the air back. Maybe that was more the case with the steel hybrids, not sure.
I think you have a fairly tall stack. Maybe the draft is pretty strong, and you could get more control with a pipe damper (or two.)


> I did just order a pipe thermometer to see if that gives me better info for startup and closing the bypass.
> I agree with you on the nicer higher BTU wood.  Additionally it nests together tighter because its so straight which I think helps regulate the burn.


I know that with my Woodstocks, the stove top meter was the slowest to react, with the soapstone and all. Those have been straight cats though, not hybrids..your PH top may react faster once the secondary kicks in. I also have a surface meter lying on the horizontal tee snout, and in my case it reacts faster to changes in the fire box. I know that if I hold it at 450-500 for ten or fifteen minutes, I can close the bypass and get a good light-off. You too may find flue temp more useful in judging what's going on in the box. Maybe the best tool is just looking at the load to see how much wood is catching at a given time and cutting back the air accordingly. But it takes a while to get good at judging a fire by eye, and anticipating what it's going to do in the next several minutes. I'm having to hone those skills now, at my SIL's. At home, if I get too much wood burning in the Keystone, no big deal, I just cut the air to tone down the burn.
Quite a bit of the wood I have for her this year was split for her old cat stove, not bigger splits like I'd prefer for her new T5. I'm trying to nest them to slow down the loads, but the splits aren't as straight as yours..


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## barnaclebob (Nov 8, 2019)

I ordered the condar probe thermometer and have had several fires with it now.

Woodstocks statement that the flue temps are approximately double the stove top temps during startup seem to be true according to what ive been seeing. 

Typically Ive been shutting down the bypass when the pipe temp hits about 600 and then closing the air control shortly after that.   The pipe temp will drop to about 400 or 450 and once the stove is heated up it cruises with the stovetop thermometer at 500 to 550.  

That all seems good to me.  I dont think the pipe thermometer is very necessary for this stove because its pretty easy to tell whats happening by looking at the firebox and stove top temps.  At least I can check the temps from the couch now.


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## barnaclebob (Feb 17, 2020)

Another quick mid season update.  There was a thread at one point where someone was complaining at how often their cat clogged, i think they were having to clean weekly.  With my previous batch of lower quality "Northwest mix" wood I'd need to clean about every face cord, maybe each time I had to empty the ash pan.  But having put a cord of douglas fir though the stove, the cat has hardly any ash buildup.  So if you are getting clogging problems it could be an issue with your wood.

12 hour burns with doug fir are still not guaranteed but I don't try for that long most of the time.  If I get a few big logs on bottom when I light a fire from the middle, that seems to be the best for long burns.  I do easily get 12 hours of heat from the stove though.  In my relatively mild climate if I wanted to do 24 hour burning it would probably require 3 or 4 smaller reloads a day in order to not heat up the house too much.


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## begreen (Feb 17, 2020)

barnaclebob said:


> Another quick mid season update.  There was a thread at one point where someone was complaining at how often their cat clogged, i think they were having to clean weekly.  With my previous batch of lower quality "Northwest mix" wood I'd need to clean about every face cord, maybe each time I had to empty the ash pan.  But having put a cord of douglas fir though the stove, the cat has hardly any ash buildup.  So if you are getting clogging problems it could be an issue with your wood.
> 
> 12 hour burns with doug fir are still not guaranteed but I don't try for that long most of the time.  If I get a few big logs on bottom when I light a fire from the middle, that seems to be the best for long burns.  I do easily get 12 hours of heat from the stove though.  In my relatively mild climate if I wanted to do 24 hour burning it would probably require 3 or 4 smaller reloads a day in order to not heat up the house too much.


That is similar to what we see with the T6. Lately with cold nights and mild daytime temps I have been starting a full load fire around 7am, then a modest 5-6 split reload around 6pm. I toss a few splits on at around 11:30pm to carry the fire through the night. So far this heating season I have cleaned out ash twice burning almost all doug fir, about 2 cords worth so far. Lately I have been slipping in some hardwood for the 11:30pm burn and that is building up ash quicker. I will have to clean again by the end of the month I think.


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## barnaclebob (Aug 11, 2020)

Did my annual chimney cleaning this week:

My apparatus to capture soot, a helper holding a shop vac near the hole would make it nearly soot free.





Probably got 1.5 qts of soot.  The lighter browner part was from the stove pipe, the darker black stuff from the chimney.


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## toddnic (Aug 15, 2020)

barnaclebob said:


> Did my annual chimney cleaning this week:
> 
> My apparatus to capture soot, a helper holding a shop vac near the hole would make it nearly soot free.
> View attachment 262154
> ...


That is exactly the same way that I clean mine! Works great!


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