# Manual or auto



## chuckster (Feb 1, 2012)

I run my Harman XXV on room temp manual to try to go easy on the ignitor. I was wondering if I should run on auto and let the stove shut down to try to save some on pellets or if is better to run on manual and use more pellets saving the ignitor. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Chuck


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## MacP (Feb 1, 2012)

After reading serveral threads on this site, I decided to run it on Manual when I run it on Room Temp. It's less wear and tear on the ignitor and saves on electricity.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Feb 1, 2012)

chuckster said:
			
		

> I run my Harman XXV on room temp manual to try to go easy on the ignitor. I was wondering if I should run on auto and let the stove shut down to try to save some on pellets or if is better to run on manual and use more pellets saving the ignitor. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
> Chuck



I think the responses you get will probably be split right down the middle on that question. During the shoulder seasons, I choose to run mine on Room Temp Auto. There is an extremely noticeable difference in the "pellets used" department for me. An ignitor is $100. Over the course of the burning season, I save more than that in the reduced use of pellets. JMHO and you'll get more.......


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## MacP (Feb 1, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:
			
		

> chuckster said:
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Hmmm good point!


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## lbcynya (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm going to withhold judgement on this on until my spring cleaning.  I don't run on auto, ever.  I will shut the stove off during the day during shoulder seasons and fire up as necessary at night.  Stove is in the basement living area, so it's not mandatory that the lower level is always heated.  I'll burn just over 2 tons this winter (very mild) and I don't plan to clean my exhaust until spring.  I only have 8 feet of pipe and it's 4 inch, so I shouldn't have an issue with lack of cleaning.  In the spring I'll look at the buildup of ash and see if its acceptable.  If so, I won't change to auto anytime soon.

To me, it just doesn't make sense to let the stove cool during the heating season, even if the weather is mild.  Keeping the stove warm and dribbling a few BTU in the room while the stove is in maintenance burn doesn't seem like a waste.  BTU is BTU.  Only possible argument is the fact that the stove might burn less efficiently on low than medium or high.  Maybe, maybe not. 

Furnaces used to be on/off, now there's 2 stage and variable speed systems to keep trickling heat into the living area as it's lost.  This prevents the system from cooling resulting in lost efficiency.  

Based on my math, 4 bucks a bag for pellets, .75 lb feed rate on maintenance/idle would require 1333 hours of idle time to consume enough pellets to eat up a 100 buck igniter.  That's 55 days of idling continuously.  I think it would take at least 2 seasons or more to break even, not counting the 70 ish watts of additional energy consumed during each start up.  So, 14 starts would consume 1 kW at your local rate.  

How fun would it be to build a 500 square foot room inside a climate controlled cold storage facility.  Then we could really test all of our different operational methods and hypotheses under strict process control.  Hmm, Federal Grant???


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## movemaine (Feb 1, 2012)

How often does an ignitor let go? I have a Harman Accentra, what is the ignitor life expectancy and what are some tell-tale signs that it's giving out?


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## PJPellet (Feb 1, 2012)

I typically run in Room Temp/Auto and my stove's ignitor goes on and off about 10-18 times per day depending on the outside temp.  It's been about one year with this ignitor and still starts fast-approximately 3 minutes from cold stove to flame.  I vacuum the ignitor compartment weekly as I think this is key to ignitor life.  FWIW my dealer says I should get 3-4 years of life from my ignitor running it this way.  Time will tell but so far I use my ignitor heavily and all seems well.  (knock on wood)


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## muss (Feb 1, 2012)

My ignitor went the end of my 2nd burn season so the last few years i've been on manual. Been a much better burn for me the last 2 . So i don't think i'll be replacing the ignitor anytime soon. I've come to enjoy tinkering with my stove. Just my opinion & experience


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## chuckster (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll stay with room temp manual. I just can't seem to like the idea of the ignitor going on and off all the time.
Chuck


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## Lousyweather (Feb 1, 2012)

movemaine said:
			
		

> How often does an ignitor let go? I have a Harman Accentra, what is the ignitor life expectancy and what are some tell-tale signs that it's giving out?



in my experience, they dont get weak, they just fail......it will work fine, then one day, it just wont work.......never really have seen an ignitor that sometimes worked, other than when the ignitor gets dirty........basically, they work till they fail......might be 6 months, might be 10 years, might be never.......FWIW, the newest series of ignitors seem to be very reliable......


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## stellep (Feb 2, 2012)

The last time my ignitor failed, I could tell that it was on the edge because more pellets built up in the burn pot before they caught fire.  Then one day it just failed.  YMMV.  I recall that when I looked for a new one, they were rated for 3000-5000 lights life expectancy.  Or something like that.  It was a while back.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Feb 2, 2012)

Lousyweather said:
			
		

> movemaine said:
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Do you know when the "new" series started?


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## MacP (Feb 2, 2012)

Do you guys think it's worth having an extra ignitor just in case it fails? Is it difficult to replace?


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## jtakeman (Feb 2, 2012)

Most likely the dealer has them in stock. You can get by the night or weekend it takes to get the new one from the dealer with a manual light. But if money isn't tight, Sure why not.


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## Lousyweather (Feb 2, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:
			
		

> Lousyweather said:
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not specifically, but about two years ago


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## Lousyweather (Feb 2, 2012)

MacP said:
			
		

> Do you guys think it's worth having an extra ignitor just in case it fails? Is it difficult to replace?



no.....easy enough to come by....I have to imagine almost any Harman dealer keeps them


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## pfmaloney (Feb 2, 2012)

This is certainly a timely topic for me.
My accentra insert was installed last February.  I normally run it in Room Temp/Auto mode 24x7.
Since I am pushing the limits and attempting to heat our 3000 sq ft home, 
the accentra never quite gets to the point where it shuts down while in Auto mode.
If the outside temperature is above 30, the flame will ramp down on occasion and if the temperature is below 30, the flame will be full bore.
At the end of March last year, the fuse blew and it turned out to be the igniter.  
Just last week, we awoke to a cold house and the fuse blew again.  I replaced the fuse and switched it to manual and everything worked fine.
I have the accentra plugged into an outlet on a dedicated line with a Belkin MasterCube surge protector.

Yesterday, our dealer's tech serviced the unit and verified that it was the igniter that failed and replaced it.
The bad news is that he couldn't determine why another igniter failed again.  
He checked and tested all of the wires, connections and ran the diagnostic tool and all was fine.

I find it hard to believe that it is just a coincidence that two igniters would blow out the fuse in less than a year 
when we don't use the igniter that much.

Does anyone have any theories?


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## jtakeman (Feb 2, 2012)

Pat_M said:
			
		

> This is certainly a timely topic for me.
> My accentra insert was installed last February.  I normally run it in Room Temp/Auto mode 24x7.
> Since I am pushing the limits and attempting to heat our 3000 sq ft home,
> the accentra never quite gets to the point where it shuts down while in Auto mode.
> ...



Maybe the dealer had an old stock igniter on hand when he swapped yours out. If I remember correctly the old igniters with the issue had a different fin count. I don't remember the exact details, Like fin count. But the new version has been much more dependable from what I understand.


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## Cincinnati Kid (Feb 2, 2012)

I believe the fin count increased from 13 to 15 but not positive.


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## forya (Feb 2, 2012)

I am going to order a replacement for mine before spring and just keep it around.  I am going to have replacement door/window seals and an igniter. I have to get a new combustion fan anyway, as it has gotten real loud (probably a bad bearing)


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## DAKSY (Feb 2, 2012)

Cincinnati Kid said:
			
		

> I believe the fin count increased from 13 to 15 but not positive.



+1 - That's what I remember reading...


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## pfmaloney (Feb 2, 2012)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Maybe the dealer had an old stock igniter on hand when he swapped yours out. If I remember correctly the old igniters with the issue had a different fin count. I don't remember the exact details, Like fin count. But the new version has been much more dependable from what I understand.



Hopefully, the "new" igniter is new!!


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## pfmaloney (Feb 3, 2012)

Bad news.  I spoke to the dealer this morning and they said that both the failed and new igniter are the newer 15 fin model.
The mystery remains unsolved.


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## jdinny (Jan 17, 2014)

We run our P43 on room temp/auto.
We started out stove 1/1/14 @ 3pm, and it's been running ever since.
It's heating 1500 sq ft, and we had 3 days of sub zero temps.
72* during the day, 68-69* at night.
We've burned 14 bags of pellets.
I am super happy, exceeding all my expectations.
On another note, this Harman burns every brand of pellet I've fed it very good.


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## THE ROOSTER (Jan 17, 2014)

If I run in room temp, it's room temp/manual. My stove was installed in Jan. 08 and I am still on the original igniter. 
The question I have is, "where do you all place the knob"? On the L or the H OR IN THE MIDDLE between the L & H?


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## GeHmTS (Jan 17, 2014)

Manual in room temp, auto in stove mode.  That's just me.  I start my fire manually most of the time because I'm primitive.


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## BGStG1aholic (Feb 24, 2014)

THE ROOSTER said:


> If I run in room temp, it's room temp/manual. My stove was installed in Jan. 08 and I am still on the original igniter.
> The question I have is, "where do you all place the knob"? On the L or the H OR IN THE MIDDLE between the L & H?


 

I called the tech. where I just bought my XXV and she told me to run the knob(fan control) about halfway between the L & H.

 I was running it at High thinking it was putting more heat into the room and less out the pipe but she told me if the fan's on high it will cool the stove too much for an efficient burn unless you're running the stove at a very high thermostat setting.


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## Polar Bear (Feb 24, 2014)

Manual. No rhyme or reason


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## OverlookEGR (Jan 22, 2015)

lbcynya said:


> I'm going to withhold judgement on this on until my spring cleaning.  I don't run on auto, ever.  I will shut the stove off during the day during shoulder seasons and fire up as necessary at night.  Stove is in the basement living area, so it's not mandatory that the lower level is always heated.  I'll burn just over 2 tons this winter (very mild) and I don't plan to clean my exhaust until spring.  I only have 8 feet of pipe and it's 4 inch, so I shouldn't have an issue with lack of cleaning.  In the spring I'll look at the buildup of ash and see if its acceptable.  If so, I won't change to auto anytime soon.
> 
> To me, it just doesn't make sense to let the stove cool during the heating season, even if the weather is mild.  Keeping the stove warm and dribbling a few BTU in the room while the stove is in maintenance burn doesn't seem like a waste.  BTU is BTU.  Only possible argument is the fact that the stove might burn less efficiently on low than medium or high.  Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> ...



As an engineer, I like the prospect of collecting data to analyze.   the more controlled the experiment, the better!


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## HP52NOVA (Jan 22, 2015)

I run my 52i on room temp, manual.   Feed rate is 3 and temp is set to 75.   Distribution fan in the lower - middle setting (because we need to hear the TV too!).   The stove is in my family room, heating a rather open main floor of about 2000SQF and most of second floor of about 2300SQF.   

Both the furnace fan on the main floor and my heat pump fan on the second floor are set to cycle every 15 minutes.   I have a large ceiling fan on the family room distributing the stove heat all over (on heat mode)

What I found is that I get a much more even heat distribution around the house running like this.   I only use the igniter to get the stove on once a week, after its weekly/monthly cleanings.    its on 24/7 outside of that.    my sensor is under the stove and gives me an accurate reading for up to about 25 feet around it with  1-2 degree variation.  it may be 75 at the sensor, but then only 73 in the kitchen 50 feet away and only 72 upstairs, etc.   So, in reality I don't use the auto shut down feature because of the igniter - its because even on manual, 76 degrees at the stove and low fire I still get heat moving throughout the house.  

I just look at the forecast and if the weather is over 50, sunny, etc. I shut down the stove for the day and open a window (shoulder season).   This seems to work well for us.   But again, we heat a large house.

To me the auto shutdown feature will only make sense when you are heating a smaller area that is well covered by the sensor range.   otherwise, the only other benefit of "room temp" is the self throttling  of the BTU output.      

in my case, it heats 100% of the first floor, and most of my second floor very well - all the way down to about 20F.    At that point, the "backup" systems (i.e. my furnace and heat pump) will kick in to supplement sporadically, and the stove will be roaring at 100% (we call it headphones mode).   given the fact the stove is a basically a local space heater rated up to 2600SQF in optimal conditions, I don't think  its too shabby for one pellet stove.   My dealer was shocked to hear the results, said we are getting more then he would expect.   I burn a constant 2 bag a day load (about 3.5 tons in so far).

So, no need for "igniterfobia" as I see it.  As long as you understand what the settings are meant to do, just run as best fits your house and heat needs.


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