# STIHL CHAIN SAWS ARE JUNK!!!



## Captain Hornet (Aug 22, 2010)

I'm NOT real happy with Stihl right now.  I have three Stihl saws and they don't run worth crap.  My 440 Magnum has always been hard to start.  If I pull on the cord tell I'm a bloody froth, it'll pop and fart around but not run.  A shot of ether fixes things and than it'll run fine.  But, I don't want to shoot it with ether to start every time.  My 034 has also always been hard to start. It was running fine when I put it up  two weeks ago and now won't hit a lick.   I also have a little 009 and it's been my best saw,  BUT,  it has it's quirks.  It'll start and run fine every time until you run out that first tank of gas, than, it's done for the rest of the day.  You might as well go back to the house and have a beer because you are not going to be doing any more cutting that day.  I feed my saws Ethanol free, super High Test  with Stihl mix.  It's 95 degrees here today and I turned myself into a hot bloody froth pulling on the rope starters.  ('m 67 years old and can you say heart attack city?  I don't need the aggravation.  To be fair, it sounds as if all my saws have carb problems.  I have been on the saw forms and found that ALL Stihl saws have carb problems,  So, why do I want a Stihl when I know it's going to give me problems?  I was thinking that I should get a Homelite.  Than when it gives problems I could put it in the trash dumpster.  I could get another for $89.00 and be way ahead.  I think I'll get rid of these expensive Stihl lemon saws.  David


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## ANeat (Aug 22, 2010)

Wow, I just bought a used Stihl and it fired right up.  I was actually a little suprised at how easy it started...

 FWIW many saws share the same brand carbs but I cant say for sure which brand in on Stihls (Walbro, Titleson???)


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## smokinj (Aug 22, 2010)

Well I will take that 440 lemon of your hands lol. These are all older stihls if you fill its the carbs I would take them out and clean them in an ultra sonic cleaner.


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## burntime (Aug 23, 2010)

I have an eleven year old super farm boss and it starts perfectly.  Never even changed the plug.  My neighbor borrowed it and mixed the gas and bar oil fills up.  I just dumped it out, shot of either and carb cleaner, and it was back to running fine after some smoke.  I have only had 1 stihl that was hard to start and after seting the carb it ran perfect.  How long have you had these?  BTW, I do not have a 440 yet...  Jay, I get 1st dibs  :lol:


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## 727sunset (Aug 23, 2010)

Captain Hornet said:
			
		

> I have three Stihl saws and they don't run worth crap.  I could put it in the trash dumpster.



I'd love to find them in my dumpster. Can I PM you my address, lol?

Sorry to hear the difficulties with your saws. Sounds like they need a competent person giving them a thorough check. Sadly, your saws should not be causing you this grief.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 23, 2010)

I run a Husqvarna 350 now . . . but I used to run an 028 Stihl and never had any issues with them . . . quite honestly I like both brands. I'm thinking a good cleaning might be in order . . . fuel filters, air filter, carb, etc.


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## charly (Aug 23, 2010)

Captain Hornet,
Once you get your saws running , get a can of Sea Foam , add an once to a gallon of saw mix, it'll keep your carbs in great shape. I even run it in my 2 stroke mix for my paramotor I fly. Great stuff. Never in 15 years have I had any carb problems with anything, including ethanol gas. No fuel lines eaten up or carb diaphrams gone bad. Infact my stihl string trimmer has sat all winter with 2 stroke mix with seafoam added, and come summer, I shake the tank as to mix the fuel up and it'll start up and run fine every year. I'm a believer in Seafoam, lots of uses too. Check it out, you won't be sorry ;-)


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## Jags (Aug 23, 2010)

I am thinking that they (all your saws) may need a little professional attention and tuning.  Stihls are not known to be hard starters.  And for you to have 3 of them.....maybe its just an adjustment / maintenance issue.  Take them to a reputable shop and hand them over.  I'll bet you sing a different tune when you get them back.  That 440 is a heck of a saw.


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## Flatbedford (Aug 23, 2010)

Odd. My 029 has never had starting or running problems in the 16 years I have owned it. It has never been tuned, adjusted, or serviced. Over the years it has gone from running several hours a day to sitting for months or even years unused. I have never drained the fuel no matter how long it is out of service. I do have to clean the air filter from time to time though, and did change the plug and fuel filter last year just because I figured that I should after 15 years. My MS180 takes a little more effort to start, but is never a problem. I bought it used about 2 1/2 years ago.
Too bad you are not happy with your saws. Like the others, I think you should give in and take them to a reputable dealer and have them checked out. You can spend the $89 you would spend on the Homelite to get your saw running right instead.


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## kenskip1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Sir your attitude perplexes me.I would think that a man of your age would be smart enough to take the malfunctioning saw to your local dealer. I have reason to suspect that your OLD gas is one possibility.Another is how far are you pulling on the rope?I have seen some users only pull about a foot.When was the last time you cleaned the air filter and changed the gas filters?Normal maintenance helps. If you are so mad at Stihl, may I make a suggestion? Grab your check book head to the local Sears and purchase a 445-450 Husqvarna. I bought a 445 and it is the easiest saw to start. All I have to do is look at it. Ken


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## heatwise (Aug 23, 2010)

i would hope that your saws are just in need of a good tune up.  theyre are times mine dont want to start , but most of the time i think its stale gas or some crap in the carb, i hope you can resolve the problem and can get some use from these great saws. i currently own 4 stihls and doubt in my lifetime i will wear them out. pete


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## charly (Aug 23, 2010)

Does anyone else run Seafoam in their fuel? I don't want to sound like I'm selling the product. I'm reading all these starting problems. Running seafoam in your fuel will speak for itself. I hate to see people having  fuel related problems, when I've witnessed for over 15 years, no starting or fuel related problems, from simply keeping some seafoam in my fuel. I found Tractor Supply has the best prices.


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## smokinj (Aug 24, 2010)

xclimber said:
			
		

> Does anyone else run Seafoam in their fuel? I don't want to sound like I'm selling the product. I'm reading all these starting problems. Running seafoam in your fuel will speak for itself. I hate to see people having fuel related problems, when I've witnessed for over 15 years, no starting or fuel related problems, from simply keeping some seafoam in my fuel. I found Tractor Supply has the best prices.



lol You own stock in sea-foam or what?


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## ANeat (Aug 24, 2010)

Seafoam sounds like all the other fuel additives/stabilizers.  I use Sta-Bil myself


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## Backwoods Savage (Aug 24, 2010)

Captain Hornet said:
			
		

> I'm NOT real happy with Stihl right now.  I have three Stihl saws and they don't run worth crap.  My 440 Magnum has always been hard to start.  If I pull on the cord tell I'm a bloody froth, it'll pop and fart around but not run.  A shot of ether fixes things and than it'll run fine.  But, I don't want to shoot it with ether to start every time.  My 034 has also always been hard to start. It was running fine when I put it up  two weeks ago and now won't hit a lick.   I also have a little 009 and it's been my best saw,  BUT,  it has it's quirks.  It'll start and run fine every time until you run out that first tank of gas, than, it's done for the rest of the day.  You might as well go back to the house and have a beer because you are not going to be doing any more cutting that day.  I feed my saws Ethanol free, super High Test  with Stihl mix.  It's 95 degrees here today and I turned myself into a hot bloody froth pulling on the rope starters.  ('m 67 years old and can you say heart attack city?  I don't need the aggravation.  To be fair, it sounds as if all my saws have carb problems.  I have been on the saw forms and found that ALL Stihl saws have carb problems,  So, why do I want a Stihl when I know it's going to give me problems?  I was thinking that I should get a Homelite.  Than when it gives problems I could put it in the trash dumpster.  I could get another for $89.00 and be way ahead.  I think I'll get rid of these expensive Stihl lemon saws.  David



David, I'm feeling that you may have just posted this to see what the reaction would be. If this is all true, you have nailed the problem, but it has to be either fuel or electric.  Get it fixed by someone else if you can't nail down the problem. As you have seen, there are many happy junk sawyers around this forum and I too run a junk Stihl. It is a very good saw indeed and has been trouble free. 

Heart attack city? Naw. I'm a bit older than you and I don't worry about heart attacks. Maybe one could happen but I just don't worry about it. However, I try to get exercise daily. I ride bicycle (usually around 3-4000 miles per year) and happily put up our wood supply along with other things. And we don't have a dumpster anyway...


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## charly (Aug 24, 2010)

I just use it and know it's worked great for me :snake:


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## ckarotka (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm no small engine repair guy but 1 of 3 saws having a problem ok. 3 of 3 saws having the same problem, storage, water, dust, operator error. What ever is causing the problem seems to be contagious. Maybe a change in ways is needed.  My stihl sits all winter and come spring. 3 pulls full choke, false start, 2 more 1/2 choke and it's off to the races.


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## chuckn (Aug 24, 2010)

New to the site- but really like it!  I use Seafoam in all my equipment.  My Woodmizer sawmill, my Stihl saws, my Speeco splitter, my generator, my ATV etc....it really is great stuff.  I use StaBil too- but usually when Im gonna store the ATV away.  Stihl saws have never let me down-and Ive owned a lot of em.  There may be some operator error involved here.


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## kabbott (Aug 24, 2010)

I have had or ran a 192, 025(I think), 028, 031, 034, 440, and 660 and non were really hard starters.
the 009 is, well an 009.... the 034 I had was a POS but not hard to start, and the 440 is a good saw. 
The passages in the carb are tiny and any brand will have problems from time to time. Take the carb off and clean it or have it done and see where that gets you.
If your STIHL not happy sell em and buy a disposable saw.

The 031 ran forever(almost), Great saw
Worst problem I ever had with Stihl was the 034 would shear the little plastic dogs off in the recoil all the time if you yanked on it when it was hot.
I find myself running the 660 most now, Its an arm full but it cuts faster and I can take longer breaks :coolgrin:


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## Captain Hornet (Aug 24, 2010)

Gentlemen,  Thanks for all the kind comments.  I have never ran Seafoam or any other fuel additive in my saws and you're probably right about that being the problem.  I let my son use my 009 and after talking to me today he confessed to using reg unleaded gas in it.  He told me it was running rough so he set the idle up some.  I looked at the 034 today.  I was going to get a new spark plug and found the old one was loose in the head.  It looks as if I have found the problem with two of the saws.  I'll bet that if I get the carb cleaned on the 440 it'll be okay but I haven't done anything with it yet.  Tomorrow  means a trip to Tractor Supply for Seafoam.  I know the Stihl is a super good saw, I was just pissed that I couldn't put my hand on one that would be happy and run.  I'll let you know how all this turns out.   David


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## kabbott (Aug 24, 2010)

Captain Hornet said:
			
		

> I was just pissed that I couldn't put my hand on one that would be happy and run.  I'll let you know how all this turns out.   David



I know the feeling, trust me.
We use 420 cut off saws at work and every once in a while some one dumps strait gas in it and that is usually the end of it, sometimes I catch it in time...
That and some guys love to pull the ropes out of em


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## oilstinks (Aug 24, 2010)

i like seafoam too. Great stuff. one of the few additives not kerosene based. I work for advance auto part time for ten years and id say it out sells all the others by far because it works. Great preventitive.


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## charly (Aug 24, 2010)

Thanks for all the positive feedback on using seafoam. Here all I'm trying to do is give someone information about something that isn't snake oil and works great, and I get my balls busted ?


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## firefighterjake (Aug 24, 2010)

xclimber said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the positive feedback on using seafoam. Here all I'm trying to do is give someone information about something that isn't snake oil and works great, and I get my balls busted ?



I think you're reading more into this if you think folks here are busting your balls . . . I think a few may have joked a bit about you owning stock . . . but no ball busting . . . folks here don't tend to do that . . . and incidentally, partly because of folks' recommendations here I bought some Seafoam last week to try in my small engines.

Now about the gas . . . and this could be opening up a whole other can of worms . . . I used to run super unleaded in my small engines . . . and then when the prices got crazy high I started running the regular stuff . . . and surprise, surprise . . . I don't see any change in how the engines start up, run, power output, etc. I'm not entirely convinced it makes a huge difference as to whether you run the "good stuff" or "regular stuff" in small engines.


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## smokinj (Aug 24, 2010)

xclimber said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the positive feedback on using seafoam. Here all I'm trying to do is give someone information about something that isn't snake oil and works great, and I get my balls busted ?



lol its really not that deep. So many thread's on this stuff...


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## charly (Aug 24, 2010)

I heard there was less ethanol in premium . How true that is, I don't really know. I always ran the highest octane I could get, as this makes the fuel more stabil, causing a more even and slower burn rate, which will help with preiginition. The lower the octane, the less stable or faster the fuel burns. So if your fuel burns to quick, before the piston gets to top dead center, you are trying to force the piston back down , the opposite way it's turning, thus , this causes alot of wear on your lower end bearings as well as the piston, etc. If you get no pinging , you should be fine. I learned this thru going to Harley Davidson school, when I worked as a Harley Tech for a local dealer years ago. By the way, that seafoam will speak for itself. You'll see. Your stuff will always start and run fine . You'll never not use it, once you see for yourself. I had stuff sit with that in, that I thought would never start, and started. By the way, Seafoam will stabilize gas for up to 2 years.


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## FLINT (Aug 24, 2010)

David, 

if you can't get your saws running well soon, my recommendation would be to take them to your Stihl dealer and have them tune your saws up for you.  If my saws are ever running rough and I can't get it right - I take them in and after a service and/or tune, they always run AWESOME!  I find that its often cheaper in the long run just to have the dealer tune my saw up than for me to monkey around with it for a while throwing money at problems blindly.    

I have two Stihl saws - a 028 from the early 80s and an 08s from the mid 60's  and both run great and start right up every time.


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## jharkin (Aug 24, 2010)

Unless the STIHL manual calls for it there is no reason to run super unleaded.  The only reason it would call for it is if the engine is very high compression and the high octane is needed to prevent knocking. Otherwise just use regular. Hi test will actually give less power in an engine designed for regular since the BTU content of the gas goes down as octane goes up.

The only other possible difference is that some brands of gas put more detergents in high test. Shouldn't be much of an issue for small engines, especially when you add stabilizer like Stabil or Seafoam (guess I should checkout seafoam, I only ever used stabil). And it doesn't hurt to put a little bit of stabilizer in every can of gas for the small stuff - that way you don't have to wonder "Is the gas too old"


BTW whenever I run into small engine trouble I usually check in order...
- Try fresh gas
- Check air filter
- Check plug
- If you still have problems, get a walbro carb kit, replace the pump and metering diaphragms and clean it out good with carb cleaner. Then retune the needles.

99% of the time those steps will fix the problem.


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## smokinj (Aug 24, 2010)

jharkin said:
			
		

> Unless the STIHL manual calls for it there is no reason to run super unleaded.  The only reason it would call for it is if the engine is very high compression and the high octane is needed to prevent knocking. Otherwise just use regular. Hi test will actually give less power in an engine designed for regular since the BTU content of the gas goes down as octane goes up.
> 
> The only other possible difference is that some brands of gas put more detergents in high test. Should be much of an issue for small engines, especially when you add stabilizer like Stabil or Seafoam (guess I should checkout seafoam, I only ever used stabil). And it doesn't hurt to put a little bit of stabilizer in every can of gas for the small stuff - that way you don't have to wonder "Is the gas too old"
> 
> ...



These are older saws Fuel Filter would be my first choice, but I would also pull the carbs and clean them why I am at it!


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## hump (Aug 24, 2010)

i have 3 stihls and they all start within 4 pulls


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## ANeat (Aug 25, 2010)

As for the octane thing Stihl actually recomends 89 octane in the manuals I read,  If 89 (Mid grade) is not available they recomend premium


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## smokinj (Aug 25, 2010)

ANeat said:
			
		

> As for the octane thing Stihl actually recomends 89 octane in the manuals I read,  If 89 (Mid grade) is not available they recomend premium



+1


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## wendell (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks goodness Bigg_Redd isn't around to read this thread. It pains me to think how hurt he would be by it.


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## fjord (Aug 25, 2010)

Most of the problems I've had with saws --Stihl or Husky--have been the owner's doing. 
It sounds David that you don't do any pre-flight checks on your saws. Filters, plug, fuel quality and mix,
carb settings and debris. Re-think your starting method: listen for the choke "pop", then shut down the choke for the next pull.
Don't blame the tool...yet. ...old dogs....new tricks.
Since the saws have never been gone over by a professional dealer (think 100 hour engine check), why not give one of the beasts
a treat ?
My 009 is one little barker, tempramental and a PITA to break down and repair, but reliable up a tree...always. The 044, 028, 260 have been owner abused, yet with some care, work well in any weather.
You're not NOT coming down for breakfast as yet at 67. How about taking a small engine class ?....I did awhile ago. Learned to diagnose, do a carb rebuild,
and the steps to solving the frustrating simple small 2 and  4 cycle engine problems. Got an old Yamaha 4HP started after 3 years storage and frustration.


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## BrotherBart (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah that "pull a couple of times till it pops and close the choke" is the key with any brand of chainsaw I have ever started.

That and using the compression relief of the big boys.


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## chuckn (Aug 25, 2010)

Just bought a new 362 Pro yesterday and the very experienced Stihl mechanic there said he suggests running mid grade gas in all the saws.  I told him I used Seafoam as well and he said that actually works as well if not better than buying midgrade.  In other words - I can get away with 87 octane with the Seafoam fine.  Its a matter of negating the ethanol over time I guess....Cant wait to lay this saw into some oak and Locust this weekend!


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## charly (Aug 25, 2010)

highlander said:
			
		

> Just bought a new 362 Pro yesterday and the very experienced Stihl mechanic there said he suggests running mid grade gas in all the saws.  I told him I used Seafoam as well and he said that actually works as well if not better than buying midgrade.  In other words - I can get away with 87 octane with the Seafoam fine.  Its a matter of negating the ethanol over time I guess....Cant wait to lay this saw into some oak and Locust this weekend!



+1-seafoam ;-)


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## smokinj (Aug 25, 2010)

highlander said:
			
		

> Just bought a new 362 Pro yesterday and the very experienced Stihl mechanic there said he suggests running mid grade gas in all the saws.  I told him I used Seafoam as well and he said that actually works as well if not better than buying midgrade.  In other words - I can get away with 87 octane with the Seafoam fine.  Its a matter of negating the ethanol over time I guess....Cant wait to lay this saw into some oak and Locust this weekend!



I have had 2 brand new saws screwed up by stihl mechanics one was an 880 (over 500.00 in damage) the other a 260 (100.00 in damage). Take what they tell you in the back room with a grain of salt!


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## charly (Aug 25, 2010)

Highlander, you'll love that saw. I have the earler Pro 360 version, running a 20 inch bar. You'll really appreciate the power to weight ratio. Mines going on 9 years old, no problems at all and over 100 cords on it.


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## Danno77 (Aug 25, 2010)

FWIW, I feel your pain with hating Stihl saws. I hated mine a year or so ago, then i got it running like it should. I love Stihl again. Can't really blame the brand for a saw that isn't running right UNLESS it doesn't run right because of a design flaw. Mine was just in need of some work (first time it had ever been in the shop).

A few weeks ago I hated Jeeps, then I fixed a couple of things on it and remembered why I love my Jeep even though it has 135,000 miles on it. 

Get them running right, then tell me what you think about Stihl saws. Or do what I did, get a stupid 12" electric saw and cut a cord or so of wood with it, then get the Stihl running right and cuss yourself for being so dumb - (not that you are dumb, but I was).


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## jimosufan (Aug 25, 2010)

new to all this.Had the homelite 18 for 159 at HD..junk period.....went for the Echo CS-370 for 269. 16" cut.......what a dream in comparison to the homelite......for 200 more could only imagine how a Stihl saw would be...probaly heaven


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## chuckn (Aug 26, 2010)

xclimber said:
			
		

> Highlander, you'll love that saw. I have the earler Pro 360 version, running a 20 inch bar. You'll really appreciate the power to weight ratio. Mines going on 9 years old, no problems at all and over 100 cords on it.




Sweet!   Really looking forward to sawing with it Saturday.....got some real good piles of firewood logs to process....lots of oak and some 18 inch locust.....need to put away about 8 more cords for next year.....


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## chuckn (Aug 26, 2010)

I have had 2 brand new saws screwed up by stihl mechanics one was an 880 (over 500.00 in damage) the other a 260 (100.00 in damage). Take what they tell you in the back room with a grain of salt![/quote]

Well this guy I trust.....he rebuilt my 260Pro after I ran over it with a 5,000 pound tractor (bad day at the office).....he's pretty good.


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## smokinj (Aug 26, 2010)

highlander said:
			
		

> I have had 2 brand new saws screwed up by stihl mechanics one was an 880 (over 500.00 in damage) the other a 260 (100.00 in damage). Take what they tell you in the back room with a grain of salt!



Well this guy I trust.....he rebuilt my 260Pro after I ran over it with a 5,000 pound tractor (bad day at the office).....he's pretty good.[/quote]

I know I trust them to, its there money they know me and if its not right its comimg back!


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## JustWood (Aug 26, 2010)

OP
EYE BEG 2 DIFFER!
Stihl iz the easiest  starting saw on the market.


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## woodsmaster (Aug 26, 2010)

only problem I ever had with a steel carb is the diaphram going bad and that was at around 10 years old.


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## Captain Hornet (Aug 26, 2010)

Gentlemen,  Today I carried my .009 and .034 to the local Stihl Hospital.  Local dealer has a guy that is sharp on the Stihl saws.  He took one look at the .009 and listened to it run.  He said the carb adjustments were wrong.  He set them with the saw not running and than I tried it.  Runs like a new saw and was super easy to start.  I about fell over.  The .034 was flooding out and I had to leave it.  He says it needs a carb kit.  Sounds as if he might be able to fix my saw problems.  Perhaps soon I'll go to loving Stihl again.   David


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## chuckn (Aug 27, 2010)

Goor deal David!  Put a little seafoam in those carbs from now on and they will stay real shiny....


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## fjord (Aug 27, 2010)

Glad you're in business again David. When you find a quality saw mechanic, feed the beast and treat him well. Like your aircraft mechanic.

BUTT: due diligence on the saws. Do the "pre flight" every time, including starting WITH the chain brake set.
Why ? 
1. Gives you the opportunity to check the brake operation.
2. No problem with the saw on WOT getting out of control.
3. It's S.O.P. for C.L.P. and G.O.L. protocols for safety.
Then with the chain brake engaged,  you can start with the foot on the ground method, the famous hold-the-saw-in-your-crotch technique ( preferred by us pros 8.5 to 1 ! ), or the
infamous "drop and pull" macho start without any worry about high torque biting you. 

Now that we've got you straightened out, how you set for PPE ?


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## Adios Pantalones (Aug 27, 2010)

Carb adjustments are pretty standard stuff for preventative maintenance, and it's easy to let it slip leading to frustrations.  I had a loose plug causing stalling for quite a while, fixed it and my 260 is rock solid again.


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## DanCorcoran (Aug 27, 2010)

If you live in South Carolina and you're cutting wood, I hope it's to fire a steam-powered generator to run your A/C!


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## Beowulf (Aug 28, 2010)

I hated my MS250 for the first few years that I had it.  It turned out that the Chinese carb had a manufacturing/design defect that allowed the diaphragm cover to warp when the saw heated up.  I sealed it up with a little silicon and now it runs fine.

I like my other Husqy saws very well, and think they start easier, but I "still" bought a Stihl MS200T in the spring for limbing.  It is a little monster that I have grown fond of.

I find that regular gas and a little Stabil work ok for me.  If I blow it and leave some gas in the carb for a month, bad things do not appear to happen.

Tuning the carbs for the altitude that you work at makes a big difference as well.

Good luck!


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