# Woodburning Zero Clearance Fireplaces



## builderbob (Jun 14, 2007)

We are planning a new home and want a woodburning  ZC fireplace.

We are looking into the Napoleon High Country NZ6000, the Lennox Montecito Estate, the RSF Opel3, and the Regency Z2510.  We would like to get a decent viewing are---say 14"+ by 26"+.

We have been unable to actually see any of htese models at dealers yet.

Any experienced owners on any of these models?  Comments?  Pros and cons?  Satisfaction level with your model?

Thanks,
Builderbob


----------



## scfa99 (Jun 15, 2007)

Hey Bob,

I have the Quad 7100 and love it.  Do a quick search on it and should bring you back a lot of feedback.  I also have a review on the stove review section.  If you have any other specific questions on the quad let me know i'd be happy to help.

Matt


----------



## builderbob (Jun 15, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback.

But doesn't the Quad 7100 have a somewhat small viewing area---maybe 12" x 24"?  We got that impression somewhere and didn't consider it further.


----------



## begreen (Jun 15, 2007)

Are you intending this thing to heat or just entertain? IMHO, the difference between 12x24 and 14x26 is trivial and shouldn't be your primary criteria. Go for the stove with the strongest quality, reputation, burn time and dealer support in your area. Stay open to all the qualities of the stove and don't worry too much about the marketing literature. In the long run, you'll be happier.


----------



## webbie (Jun 15, 2007)

RSF are top-notch. They were making these fireplaces before the other companies ever thought about them. Regency has been at it a long time also. 

There are a lot of good models, but local (or semi-local) dealer support can be helpful unless you are a DIY type or have a very skilled contractor, so dig around for dealers in your area. It is typical for dealers not to show every model, especially built-in wood units, but maybe you will get lucky.


----------



## builderbob (Jun 15, 2007)

Let me clarify as to our desired size viewing area---we would like 14"+---meaning minimum 14" but would like larger. Same with the 26"+---like 26" but prefer larger.  Can anyone tell us what are the actual viewing glass dimensions of various models?

We would depend on heating only for supplemental or emergency heat.  Ambiance and decent viewing area of fire is main factor, while heating ability would be a pleasant bonus.  But we do not want a loss of home heat while fireplace not in use, hence we are looking at the sealed door high efficiency woodburners, and not the low efficiency airgap doors type of prefabs (which do have large viewing areas).

So, what models high efficiency woodburners have decent viewing areas of *at least* 364 sq inches (=14 x 26).  The Quad 7100 apparently has area of only 288 sq inches (12 x 24), and that Quad difference from our minimum is not trivial.

Thanks everyone for feedback.


----------



## scfa99 (Jun 15, 2007)

How about BIS, i think they have one that has a single door with a very large viewing area.

heres a link.  

http://www.securitychimneys.com/pages/fireplace/high_BisPanorama.asp?country=


----------



## builderbob (Jun 15, 2007)

Thanks for the reference to the BIS Panarama.  It looks good.  We also noted at the BIS site the BIS Tradition (which I think is now the same as the Lennox Montecito Estate which was on our short list).

We also think the RSF Opel 3 which also is a single door *may* be a candidate, but it is apparently a new product from RSF, and we can't tell the viewing area dimensions for sure.  I emailed RSF yesterday as to dimensions and availability but got no response yet.

Anyone out there know anything about the RSF OPEL 3?

Thanks again all for responses and help.  I never knew planning a new house would be so much detective work!!

builderbob


----------



## scfa99 (Jun 15, 2007)

What size house and floorplan?  with the units you're looking at you'll be surprised how much heat you can get out of them.


----------



## builderbob (Jun 16, 2007)

3100 sq feet two story, with 2100 sq ft main level and 1000 sq ft upstairs.  15 x 20 living area with 14 foot ceiling.  Interior fireplace will serve as a partial divider of living room from 15 x 30 eating and kitchen area (9 foot ceiling)---that is the back of the fireplace module will face the eating area.  Also a 6 foot opening from side of fireplace module is walk thru opening from living room to eating/kitchen---that is the fireplace module of 6 feet wide and the walkthru opening to eating area of 6 feet wide together make the 12 foot side of the eating area which is the common edge of the living room.  Also have a 6-1/2 foot wide entry hall to living room near this area.

In other words, fairly open floor plan.

buiderbob


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 19, 2007)

Don't know if you're still shopping or not but here's my two cents worth...

I am surprized you have not considered the Fireplace Xtrordinair 44 elite. Now THAT is an awesome machine and the chimney wont cost as much as the fireplace. Don't let the air-cooled chimney scare you off. Just do the cold-climate install and love it. The Napoleon is the only thing that comes close in performance and the way they pump cold air directly into the chimney the gasses are gonna cool just as much anyway. The Napoleon does give you a few more square inches of glass but the XTR is way beyond in proving itself in the market. 

Jack


----------



## builderbob (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for the info on the Fireplace Xtrordinaire.  In fact we were aware of it.  It is the only woodburning ZC fireplace unit actually on display in our town.

The aircooled chimney is a concern, as you suspected.

Also, I was leary of the catalyst and expense of having to replace that periodically.  All the other units we are considering are noncatalytic, and I find that to be a bonus.

Also, the actual viewing area of the Xtrordinaire gets down to only about 12" tall.  We would really like a few inches taller minimum.  We have been spoiled by a 20" by 41" masonry fireplace built in 1968 in our current house and are finding it hard to give up the large viewing area.

But as you say, it seems to Fireplace Xtrordinaire is popular.  At least two dealers have spoken highly of it to us.

Thanks for the input, and I am still hoping for much more input and all units and possibilities out there.

buildbob


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 20, 2007)

Actually the GLASS measures 19X32 on the 44 Elite which I just measured in the showroom. That is the width and the highest part of the arch. If you see one burn you will notice the tremendous mass of fire in its huge firebox. 

I am not an advocate of catalytic combustors in most cases and tend to encourage my customers towards non-cat designs. The elite is deffinitely my exception to that preference. I have been quoted in regards to the elite as saying, "The only real good case for catalytic combustors". Of course this is a stretch, they do have their place. However, the elite's catalyst feature is a tremendous advantage in more ways than one. 

1) it is extremely simple to move in and out of position. 

2) with it slid back out of the path of the flue, the elite offers unrestricted exhaust for having huge roaring fires with the screen only without backpuffing or smoking. With a non-cat fireplace the path of exhaust often remains the same whether in fireplace or efficiency mode.

The air cooled chimney is not a big deal in my opinion. It saves a lot (costs about 1/4 of class A) of money in chimney cost. Xtrordinair offers a cold climate kit for the fireplace to stop any cold air infiltration and if you simply install the intact ducts with a "s-trap" configuration there will be no thermal siphoning when not in use. The biggest complaint (perhaps ONLY complaint) is that there is cold air infiltration when the fireplace is not eing used. This happens when the cold air ducts are installed in their simplest possible way, up and out. 

WOW I hope I am not sounding like I am giving a sales pitch, I just have a lot of experience with these and see how others try to compete with this model. I sell several competitors and none gives more satisfaction than the elite in my opinion although the Quad and the Regency do well. As far as the Lennox(USA)/BIS(CAN) models, consider their marketing as "rough estimate" at best. Yes, I sell those too. Just being honest from what my customers tell me. 

Be aware of a little smoke and mirrors Regency puts into their unit. The arch surround measures out AS wide as Xtrordinair, but the metalwork is almost twice as wide. Maybe the same between the stones but the actual window is much smaller. Otherwise, the regency is a good performer. 

I could buy any one of them but in my house for my money, XTR has nothing left to prove to me. The owner has one in his house. it is 26 feet to the peak of his ceiling and it does a nice job at keeping the place comfortable.  

OH, XTR has one other thing against it if it is a feature you MUST have; it does not duct heat into other rooms. With its posi-pressure system that limitation is found to be no sacrifice once the unit is actually put to work. 

I hope this info helps you out in making your decision. Have a good week. 

Jack


----------



## builderbob (Jun 20, 2007)

Thanks again for input on actual experience.  This type of info is valuable to us.

On the Xtrordinair, I suppose since one of my worries *is* cold air infiltration when not in use, we could just close the airtight sealed doors.  Voila---no cold air draft from the fireplace!!  And no house warm air going up the flue either when fireplace not in use.  And then the aircooled chimney would become less a concern too.   Am I correct in my thinking on these points?

Another concern on the aircooled chimney would be less strong draw (when fire burning) up the flue than with a solid pack chimney.  Since we intend an interior install, and since the chimney would go up through a upstairs closet chase also inside the house, then perhaps this point would be less a worry.  That is, a solid pack chimney inside the house for all except maybe the 5 feet or so above the roof, compared to an aircooled chimney in the same circumstances may show less advantage to the solid pack chimney as to strength of draw, and avoidance of puffing out the fireplace itself.

As to the Lennox Montecito Estate models you suggest their literature is *approximation* at best---meaning the unit does *not* measure width/height/depth as stated?  Or do you mean the BTU production is guestimate.  Remember, we are interested in fireplace for viewing, enjoying ambiance as main criteria.  We want a unit to give us this, and *not* siphon off house heat when not in use.  We would find heat production during use a welcome bonus, as we would not depend on unit as primary heat source, but welcome supplemental heat and emergency heat.  So, the Lennox could provide us this ambiance and not act as siphon of house heat when *not* burning a fire?  That is the most important thing we would want out of it.

Thanks again for all the info and thoughts and sharing of experience.

Anyone else feel free to chime in too!!

builderbob


----------



## builderbob (Jun 20, 2007)

PS----Anyone with RSF OPEL experience?


----------



## mlouwho (Jun 20, 2007)

builderbob said:
			
		

> PS----Anyone with RSF OPEL experience?



I have the Opel, love it, burns great, looks great, heats wonderful.  Highly reccomend it.


----------



## bacsales (Jun 20, 2007)

Check out the Napoleon NZ6000.  It is listed with both air cooled chimney or solid packed chimney.  A big bonus is that you can use other brands of chimney on this unit like the Quadrafire or Fireplace Extrordinaire.  The BIS or the RSF are made by companies that make their own chimney.  You must use their chimney only.


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 21, 2007)

The only thing about the Napoleon is that either the expensive packed pipe chimney OR double wall chimney is going to be air cooled. Napoleon got around EPA by dumping dilution air into the chimney; This got their cubic foot of volume up to change the classification of their appliance and what they would have to conform to. The difference in Napoleon and Xtrordinair is their chimeny is cooled from the inside.


----------



## builderbob (Jun 21, 2007)

Jack,

Thanks for the comments on the NZ6000.  It is one model we have been looking at.  Do you have one?  What has been your experience with it?

builderbob


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 21, 2007)

I do not have one but I have sold and installed them for customers. I will add that the customers have been extremely pleased with the extra money spent on the Napolean. It is a fine fireplace. I sure don't want to sound like an Xtrordinair representative here. 

I caught on to the chimney air thing when trying to figure out why such an applinace would not show any testing information. If you're gonna send huge volumes of air up the chimney to classify as a fireplace and not an airtight stove, Napolean did it the right way. I was really just trying to make a point that under the circumstances, Xtrordinairs closest competitor also has an air cooled chimney no matter how much it costs. 

If the look of the Napolean and the idea of its slightly larger fire viewing area are what sends you that route I would predict you will always be happy with the decision. Only being out a couple of seasons now track record is yet to be established for the NZ but based on the company's reputation I would say it is a fairly safe bet it will do well. We have had no waranty or breakage issues with ours in the field. 

Jack


----------



## bacsales (Jun 21, 2007)

I just took the product line on this spring so I don't have any personal experience with this unit.  I was just trying to make sure you had looked at it also.


OOps I just re read your first post.  I was being redundant. sorry


----------



## builderbob (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks guys for the Napoleon info.

Back to the Xtrordinair------from reviewing the company website, I didn't really see much about burning the fires with the doors open such as we would want to do quite often for ambiance.  And I did not see firescreens for sale or mentioned at the company site.  I did see refernce in the owners manual in the standard boiler plate language section that seems to be standard for all manufacturers, that one should have a fire with either the doors fully opened or fully closed, not partway open.  But that is all I saw, yet the company does not offer firescreens for sale (for use with doors open).

I wonder if burning the Xtrordinair with doors open is an "encouraged" use by Xrtordinair company?  If doing so would void warranty?  Also don't recall seeing warranty info on the Xtrordinair.

Also, I was wondering if any complaints about creasote forming on doors and frequent need for cleaning with the Xtrordinair?

Thanks for all the input people.  You folks are just great!!

builderbob


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 21, 2007)

The Xtrordinair web site underwent a major facelift this spring. Maybe someone forgot something? They do have a very nice firescreen available for the elite series. The catalyst moves completely out of the way for this leaving a wide open flue to use as an open fireplace. The screen is very simple in that it just pops on with its friction tabs and pops back off easily. You can read the full warranty from the Xtrordinair manual available from the web site. Using with the screen does not affect the warranty and is perfectly ok. As far as the brand specifying fully opened or fully closed, I'd say that would be an overheating issue that may be present with say the door cracked a bit- causing huge fire but not enough air cycling through to keep things cooled down.

About the glass...

I believe I have had complaints (or concerned inquiries) from new owners of about every product we sell. Xtrordinair specific, I have had some calls. These windows are huge. Xtrordinair pumps air from the sides and it does a great job as compared to the old days of washing air from the top down on an arched glass (oops). 

Like any product out there that can be restricted, the Elite will soot up the window when the air is turned off. This is worse when the wood is wet. Most of the combustion air is washed over the glass to feed the fire. This is how air washes work. When we cut off this air flow, you basically do not have an airwash and the glass will soot up. However, like anything else, fire up the fireplace real hot with the air open and the glass will clean back off. In my opinion the airwash works almost as well as a good airwash on a free standing stove.

All glass gets dirty but they come back pretty easy. 

Jack


----------



## youngstr (Jun 21, 2007)

Bob,
     Just to chime in I have a Fireplace Xtraordinair and am extermely satisfied.  

There was a similar topic a while back here;

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/7126/

There are pictures of my unit as well as some interesting picts of the catalytic converter engaged/disengaged....

Enjoy,
Y


----------



## builderbob (Jun 21, 2007)

Good thread on the Xtrordinair.  Always glad to hear of a satisfied customer with any product I am considering.

Has anyone had experience on replacing Xtrordinair catalysts yet?  Like how often?  I found one site where replacements were sold and they were $450 each.  Yikes.  But, initial price of the Xtrordinair with AC chimney compared to say the Napoleon NZ6000 with solid pack chimney---the savings on that initial price in favor of Xtrordinair would pay for a few catalysts.  And if they don't have to be replaced too often under normal circumstances, maybe that isn't an issue to worry about?

builderbob


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 21, 2007)

$450 is the list on the 3.5" X 18" X 3" catalyst for the Xtrordinair. I typically cut my customers a break to $399. 

Replacement is very simple and it will last quite well. 10 years is often promoted as the life span but I would figure on changing it every 7 to really anticipate what you will need in the real world. 

You're certainly right in estimating the chimney savings alone will pay for MANY catalysts. By the time the catalyst cost uses up that savings you may be too old to handle the wood anymore anyway. 

Jack


----------



## builderbob (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for that catalyst info.  Yes, if they last 7 to 10 years, then for the price difference from the Napoleon NZ6000, that ought to get me out 3 or 4 catalysts at least---meaning 20 or 30 years or longer.  Your right, after that long I won't care anymore.

I did find one thing in the Xtrordinair owner's manual though----on it page of warnings near the start--all the "dont's" which it warns could void the warranty---it says "do not operate the unit with the doors open except for briefly to add wood".

That eliminates the ambiance fires with the doors open for this unit.  The Napoleon NZ6000 states they can be operated with doors open.

As to the warranty, I found the Xtrordinair is 2 years parts AND labor for the unit, and parts AND labor up through 5 years for most of the elements of the fireplace.  And ship back freight is covered too.  Pretty good warranty coverage.

By comparison, the Napoleon says "lifetime" warranty, but in the fineprint it is labor too for only 1 year.  Then diminishing coverage on parts only after first year.


----------



## builderbob (Jun 22, 2007)

About the Xtrordinair and the operating with closed doors----I just read the online "brochure" and it explicity states the unit can be operated with the doors fully open and there is a screen available for such use when people want an ambiance fire.

That directly contradicts the "Safety" rules stated in the owners manual, one of which says when operating the Xtrordinair the doors should be kept closed and the latch hooked.

So, since the brochure says open doors are ok and they even sell a screen for such use, I doubt they could deny a warranty claim based on the apparently outdated owners manual.  In court I would present the brochure as Exhibit 1!!


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 22, 2007)

They are simply saying don't operate the stove with the doors open. Some people just open the doors and have no screen. The fireplace is designed to use with the screen for as long as you wish.


----------



## webbie (Jun 22, 2007)

bmstove.com said:
			
		

> $450 is the list on the 3.5" X 18" X 3" catalyst for the Xtrordinair. I typically cut my customers a break to $399.
> Jack



Wow, that is a major cost item! You also have to assume that many people are going to have to have a service person install it, which means a 500-600 total job.

As to how long they last, I suspect it depends on burning habits, chimney, etc - but my experience has been that cats usually tend to last more toward the short end of their expected life than the long end. 

The cost must be figured in - BUT, EPA requires a certain warranty on these converters, which is usually prorated - so maybe a dealer or someone who knows can tell us what the cost to the consumer is....say if it needs replacement in year 4 or 5.


----------



## bmstove.com (Jun 22, 2007)

Craig - the cat in the Xtrordinair is real easy sitting on the heart. They made it a no-brainer but then again it is a fireplace and not a stove. 

You're right about the warranty on cats. They are pro-rated. I think up to 2 years you get full replacement and then it is pro-rated up to 8 years. So, If a $400 combustor fails in 4 years, the customer will pay $200 and the warranty will cover the other $200.

Jack (looking desperately forward to vacation next week)


----------



## builderbob (Jun 23, 2007)

So, let's be conservative and assume a catalytic converter lasts 5 years and no warranty for any portion.

And let's assume the price difference between Napoleon NZ6000 with solid pack chimney and Xrtordinair with AC chimney is $1600----that would buy 4 converters.  So those four plus the original with the new fireplace would last 5 converters times 5 years each, or 25 years.  All that time to eat up the cost difference.

After 25 years I don't think I would care.  It could be time for a new fireplace by then anyway.

Advantage Fireplace Xrtordinair.

Now the Xtrordianair just leaves me bothered by the prohibition (and potential warranty voider)  in the owners manual saying "Only burn a fire in the fireplace with the doors closed AND LATCHED."  The way that statement is worded doesnt sound much like---only burn with the doors open if you have a firescreen.

So, I wonder if I would enjoy the ambiance of a closed door fire mostly as well anyway?

builderbob


----------



## Gooserider (Jun 25, 2007)

I don't know about you, but I've seen occasional posts from woodstove owners that have the ability to run their stoves with the door open using a firescreen, some said this was a feature they considered important when picking the stove, so it was something they thought was desireable to do.  However they found that they seldom, if ever actually did it once the novelty wore off - they were happy looking through the glass and enjoying the greater heat output of a closed stove.

Gooserider


----------



## builderbob (Jun 25, 2007)

My thinking was kind of drifting along those lines.  Since I have found two decent models by good companies, each of which have have nice large viewing areas on their doors, I was thinking, what would be the big deal on keeping the doors open?  I could see the flames good with the doors shut, and I could keep the house warm and toasty at the same time.

And I could leave the doors open a few times a year when we might really just want the open flames and nothing in between.

I could have my toast and (h)eat it too!

builderbob


----------



## youngstr (Jun 25, 2007)

Bob,
     I leave my doors open regularly with the firescreen on without issue.  

I would guess Fireplace Xtraoridaire corporate probably has 2 issues with operating the the unit with the doors open and the firescreen on;
1.  All your heat is going up the chimney with the doors open.  
2.  You can't engage the cat with the doors open(smoke will pour into the room).  Since you can't engage the cat the fireplace no longer meets EPA standards.

I'm only guessing these issues are why FX wants the doors closed.  As I stated, I run with the doors open(particularly when the room gets too hot and I don't want more heat) and haven't had any problems.

Y


----------



## builderbob (Jun 25, 2007)

Thanks for chiming in.

So as a Fireplace Xrtordinair owner do you consider yourself:  very satisfied, satisfied, unsatisfied?  And which model do you have, the Elite 36 or the Elite 44?

Best thing you like about your FPX, what bugs you the most, and what brand chimney did you use?

Also, does FPX not allow use of the paperwrapped logs like Duraflame?  I was thinking once in awhile when low or out of firewood we might want to use a Duraflame log to tide us over for an ambiance fire.

builderbob


----------



## youngstr (Jun 26, 2007)

Hey Bob good questions, you really put me on the spot.  I have the 44 Elite and would give the FP a 4 out of 5 stars.  I've only owned it for a little over a year so take my comments with a grain of salt....

Pros;  
- The unit really puts out a lot of heat.  Our family room is 18' x 24' with a catherdral ceiling.  Once the FP warms up, the FP quickly warms the family room with freezing temperatures outside.  The house is around 2600sf and other than a few really cold nights we primarily heated with wood this past year.  
- When I load the FP up at night, I always have enough coals to restart the FP the next morning.  Just a guess, but my burn times are consistently over 8 hours. 
- Most of the wood on my property is hemlock and pine.  Since this is what I planned on burning I was really concerned about creosote in the chimney as well as smoking out the neighbors.  Other than smoke at startup, the cat does a great job burning off the smoke.  It's funny, my neighbor was over a couple of months back commenting about how much wood we went through but he never noticed a lot of smoke.

Cons;
- When I purchased the FP all I heard was about was "posi-pressure".  The sales guy said posi-pressure, yada yada yada.  Only problem is, posi-pressure is not recommended for use in cold environments(it's in their current manual but wasn't in the on-line manual when I purchased the FP).  I don't know how FX corporate can even talk about posi-pressure when the northern 1/4 of the country can't use it(NH,ME,VT,NY,WI,ND,SD,CO,MT,....).  Sorry to vent but this burned me(pun intended).  I'm not sure where the dealerthought I'd be installing this, Texas? Needless to say this changed my planned install.  This is my biggest gripe with the FP.
- The FP takes a while to warm up (before than temp sensor trips and the blower turns on).  This probably my second biggest gripe with the FP.  
- Some people have complained about cold air infiltration(i.e. the front of the FP getting cold when not in use).  If I'm home and it's cold outside I build a fire.  As such, this might be an issue but I can't really comment on it, just wanted to pass this along.

Can't remember what brand my chimney is.  It's double walled, non-insulated...that's about all I remember.  I'll look for he paperwork if I get some time.....

I would imagine the wax in the Duraflame logs would be bad for the cat.  I'm very careful about what I burn(i.e. no wrapping paper/magazines/etc).  I was thinking about picking up a pallet of bio-bricks this year so the wifey can start the fire easier.  I have to call FX customer service first to make sure it's OK.....

Y


----------



## builderbob (Jun 26, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback.  The 44 Elite is the model we would be looking at.  So since you are in New England, when you installed, you did the blower fan box somewhere inside, like perhaps the side or back of the fireplace module?  Do you have it intaking from the family room or an adjoining room or area?

Some of the comments posted here say the fanblower is fairly quiet, and if not turned to the very top speed, you can barely hear it.  How would you rate the fanblower noise (or lack therof) issue?

This kind of feedback is really helpful to us.  Thanks for taking the time and interest.

builderbob


----------



## youngstr (Jun 26, 2007)

Bob, no problem I'm glad to offer any insight I might have on the FP.  

Yeah, I had a spot ready on a outside wall for the posi pressure.  Since this had to change I actually put the blower in the basement.  Because of this, I hear the fan very little(whether it's on high or low).  Fortunately, our basement is partially finished, I'm not sure I'd want to pull air from a unfinished basement though.  

As far as the blower unit itself;
If I stand next to where the blower is mounted (and the fan is on high) it is a little loud.  If I stand next to where the blower is mounted (and the fan is on low) it's pretty quiet.

I'd recommend trying to mount the blower somewhere else if you can.  Particularly if your FP and entertainment center are in the same room.  I believe you can mount the blower as far as 20' away from the FP so that does give you some installation options.

Y


----------



## builderbob (Jun 26, 2007)

Good info on the blower.  Thanks.  If I can find a dealer within 50 miles who actually has an FPX Elite with blower hooked up, I will go listen.  These things are so subjective, I will feel much better hearing it in person myself before deciding on a blower location.

Your walls enclosing your FPX, did you just do standard wood 2 x 4's and sheetrock?  Did you insulate inside the cavity and then put sheetrock on the inside of the cavity too to cover the insulation?  Or what.

builderbob


----------



## youngstr (Jun 27, 2007)

I agree, your best bet is to hear a blower in person.  My kids are making me deaf so quiet for me is probably loud for you.

I did 2x6's and insulated the gap between them with fiberglass insulation.  Toward the fireplace is just the 2x6's and insulation.  I installed Hardiboard (a kind of cement board) as the sheathing on the outside of the 2x6's.  Over all this I installed cultured stone.  Sheetrock was out for me due to the weight of the stone.  I might have been able to use plywood but felt the stone would adhere better to the cement board and it would hold up better to the heat.

I'm sure I could have used 2x4's in my install but I was paranoid about the weight of the stone.  
Y


----------



## builderbob (Jun 27, 2007)

I (barely) hear you about going deaf with kids around (pun intended).

Good thinking on the cement board for using with Cultured Stone facing.  We want to do three sides of our fireplace module with cultured stone floor to ceiling.  The fourth side will be an outside wall.  Hadn't thought about it, but all that weight probably needs cement board anyway to hold the stone.  Plus it could serve, I suppose as a sort of firestop on the sides of the fireplace cavity.

On the insulation, did you just stuff it tight between the 2 x 6's or do something else -- stapled, or maybe metal straps crisscrossing, or something?

Also, on your two cooling ducts lines, how did you route those?  They have to be outside air too, as I recall, and on FPX they attach on top of the firebox?  Did you wrap those ducts with insulation?

builderbob


----------



## builderbob (Jun 27, 2007)

FPX "cold climate kit"?  Or "cold climate install"?

Prior post, I think by BMstoves, mentioned to install the FPX with an available "cold climate kit" to stop cold air infiltration.  But I couldn't find anything like that mentioned at FPX site.  What is it?

I am in area of country supposedly "allowed" (western Oregon) by FPX to use the "posi-pressure" feature by mounting blower fan with cold outside air intake, but wonder if I really should.  Some have said with whatever brand to do blowerfan with inside air intake.

As to the two cooling duct intakes for the FPX firebox shell and chimney, I would install with 180 turns and go to crawlspace, and I would use insulated duct tube.

FPX recommends insulating the fireplace cavity, and I would do that too.  It will be an interior location with only one side of the cavity being an outside wall, but that would be 2 x6 with R19 or greater insulation anyway as well as housewrap.  Then I would insulate the remaining three interio walls of the fireplace cavity.

I just read some of the FPX reviews elsewhere at theis site.  While most were very favorable, a few complained terribly of cold air infiltration when FPX *not* in use.  I don't want that  With an aircooled chimney, 2 cool outside air ducts for shell, and posi-pressure needing cold air blower intake as well-----that is a heck of a lot of cold air sources!!  And if we do not use FPX more time than we use the FPX, am I going to be sitting there with an expensive cold air "hole" in my wall?

Coments?


----------



## begreen (Jun 27, 2007)

BB, what altitude are you at? Unless sitting up in the mountains, western Oregon is not a cold climate.


----------



## builderbob (Jun 27, 2007)

It will be at about 950' elevation.. We are near top of a hill looking out over central Willamette Valley.


----------



## youngstr (Jun 27, 2007)

BB,
     I just used bats and stuck them between the 2x6's.  I did try to staple the edges a little and the top a lot to make certain the insulation didn't fall in toward the fireplace.  The fit was tight so I really wasn't too worried about it.  It sounds like your install will be very similar to mine, 3 inside walls, 1 outside wall.  

I had the dealer install the chimney, duct lines and set the fireplace in my framing.  The duct lines are non-insulated and form a "P" the way they're routed.  If you go to the FX site and look over the installation instructions you'll see a diagram of this in the first few pages of the document.  I think this is what they refer to as far as a cold weather kit is concerned.  If there is anything else that is done for a cold weather installation I'm not aware of it.  Again, I wish I could tell you about cold air infiltration but I'm always burning when it's cold.....now I'm getting curious about it.

Y


----------



## bjordok (Feb 13, 2011)

I realize that this thread took place almost 4 years ago but I just read through it and am really curious as to whether any of you are still active on here and can give feedback on your fireplace choice? I'm just beginning to build and have been looking at the very same units discussed here. Thanks!


----------



## builderbob (Feb 14, 2011)

bjordok said:
			
		

> I realize that this thread took place almost 4 years ago but I just read through it and am really curious as to whether any of you are still active on here and can give feedback on your fireplace choice? I'm just beginning to build and have been looking at the very same units discussed here. Thanks!



We just finished building and we chose the Lennox Montecito Estate.  It looks beautiful, nice arched large vewing area.  We opted for the Lennox Montecito Estate (exact clone is the BIS Tradition) because we will not burn 24/7, but only occassionally for ambiance fires and supplemental or emergency heating (not that this unit wouldn't be great for 24/7 fires), and we wanted the large glass viewing area.  We also liked the option for solid pack pipe which we chose (keep the chimney warmer to insure better draw), and Lennox just upgraded its warranty to Lifetime a few years ago.  We liked the looks of the Fireplace Extraordinaire, but the aircooled chimney and two cold air ducts worried us about cold air intrusion into the house when not burning, which for us would be majority of the time.  The Napoloan 6000 was just a monstrous unit, and it was not EPA approved (they say it is EPA "exempted, but that is a whole different ball of wax), and again with it worries about cold air intrusion when not burning, and sucking out the house heat.

We love our Montecito Estate.


----------



## Got Wood (Feb 14, 2011)

Wow, got all the way to the end of this thread and saw the post about it being 4 years ago .... LOL

This is my 3rd winter with the FPX Elite 44. Zero regrets for me. I love the look and it is a beast heating the house. No issues with the discussed outside air problems in this thread - live in Dutchess County, NY.


----------

