# Ok, what do I need to make my saw cut better?



## nola mike (Nov 10, 2016)

Bought a Husqvarna 450 with a 20" bar last year so that I wouldn't be tempted to use my inherited 40 yo John Deere. Well, I thought it cut OK. Until I used the Deere. Man, that thing kicked the crap out of the Husky. I still don't want to use it because of the lack of chain brake, and the Husky starts easily and has nice manners. But I need some more power. I'm going to start with a new chain. The different types are making my head spin, so maybe you guys can help me figure out what's on there now (and on the Deere) and what I need. Also was looking at getting a shorter bar--how much of a difference would going to an 18 or 16 make? Here's a pic of what's on the JD; the Husqvarna is the stock chain.


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## dougand3 (Nov 10, 2016)

Going from 20" to 16" on a 50cc saw will make saw cut way better. Go to 
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/lookups/selguide.aspx?BusId=OCS&SellReg=USA&LangId=ENG 
look at the options for Husky 450.
The JD bar looks like reg 3/8 - maybe LGX chain. What is JD model #?


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## woodhog73 (Nov 10, 2016)

Not knowing what size your 40 yo saw is it's impossible to compare. I'll take your word that it cuts better. Also can't make out much in the picture.

Your Husky would be best suited to a 16 or 18 inch bar set up in .325 pitch chain. You will find .325 used on 55cc and smaller saws because it's a much lighter chain than 3/8 pitch normally found on bigger saws.

My guess is if your saws stock, the 20inch chain is .325. I'm also guessing it's safety chain which is also called low kick back chain. Any new saw sold 55cc or less I believe is legally required to come with safety chain. This chain does not cut that well. I've used it and while being a low kick back chain that's great for safety, it cuts slow. I won't ever use it. It sucks actually. But if your new to chainsaws I suppose it has it's place.

So.....first I'd replace the chain with something faster cutting. Stihl RS ( yellow link) or Oregon LPX ( no LGX option in .325 that I'm aware of )  Both fast cutting non safety chain. Stihl chain stays sharper longer I'm sure it's harder metal but Oregons LPX in .325 is far smoother cutting and in my experience easier to hand file ( softer metal )

If your still not happy then use above chains but go to an 18 inch set up or even better 16 inch.

But if your old saw is a 70cc or 80cc saw forget it your never going to get your small husky to perform at that level. But I don't know what your old saw is.


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## nola mike (Nov 10, 2016)

I buried a link in my first post to specs on the JD...
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/have-a-crush-on-my-new-chainsaw.146794/


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## TreePointer (Nov 11, 2016)

While the older saws didn't have the high rpms, they surely had good torque on the low end.  That's one difference you may be running into.

As others have mentioned, a modern 50cc saw does well with a 16" bar, but won't keep rpm's when you get much of a 20" bar in wood.  Most modern Husqvarna 50cc saws I've seen have a narrow kerf (NK) bar with matching NK chain.  Husqvarna calls this "Pixel" chain or "H30."  This is just rebadged Oregon 95VP chain.

As mentioned above, set aside that Pixel chain and put a full chisel (not semi-chisel) chain on a shorter bar.  That would be Stihl RS or Oregon LPX.  I run my 50cc saw (Husqvarna 346XP) with the original 16" Husqvarna NK bar and Stihl RS chain (all in .325 pitch).

IMPORTANT NOTE:  
NK chain on NK bar = OK
Standard kerf chain on NK bar = OK
NK chain on Standard Kerf bar = NEVER


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## Jon1270 (Nov 11, 2016)

I run 3/8LP chain on a 16" bar on my 026, and it's great.  You can get a lot done with a 16" bar if it cuts so well that you don't mind coming at larger pieces from both sides once in a while. Sadly I don't think you'll find a 3/8LP bar and sprocket for your saw.  I liked 95VP on a Husky 350 I used to have, but I didn't keep that saw long enough to give it a thorough assessment.  

You might also get some easy improvements by modifying the muffler, pulling the carb limiters and tuning it properly.

When sharpening, don't forget to maintain the rakers.


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## coreboy83 (Nov 11, 2016)

Following. I have the same saw and questions about its peformance


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## Jon1270 (Nov 11, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Not knowing what size your 40 yo saw is it's impossible to compare.



It's only 45cc (ish): model profile.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 11, 2016)

Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving.  'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.


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## Dairyman (Nov 11, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> IMPORTANT NOTE:
> NK chain on NK bar = OK
> Standard kerf chain on NK bar = OK
> NK chain on Standard Kerf bar = NEVER



Be sure to check clearance when using a standard chain on a NK bar.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 11, 2016)

Dairyman said:


> Be sure to check clearance when using a standard chain on a NK bar.



Clearance?


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## jatoxico (Nov 11, 2016)

Agree w/ Jon who recommended tuning. I bought the tool and made a pretty big difference with my little Husky. From everything I read they come lean to meet emissions. This can not only rob power but also cause premature failure. My 2 cents.


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## Dairyman (Nov 11, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Clearance?


 
Bar is thinner. Chain might rub on something.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 11, 2016)

Dairyman said:


> Bar is thinner. Chain might rub on something.



Nah.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 11, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving.  'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.



Agree. Lots of possibilities but I'm still guessing it comes down to the chain. Could be dull, bad sharpening , also like you pointed out earlier to keep rakers filed, could be rakers.

Put on a new full chisel chain such as the ones indicated above and I'm betting it's a totally new saw.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 11, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> It's only 45cc (ish):



Ok I have to laugh. Not at the saw it looks fine. But at 45cc the specs say it can accept up to a 24 inch bar. That's funny. Can you imagine cutting hard wood that big with this tiny saw ? Better not be in a hurry you will be at it for awhile.


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## nola mike (Nov 12, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Also, it would help if the OP said more about how his 450 is behaving.  'Needs more power' might imply all sorts of issues that need to be addressed differently.


Seems like a chain issue. Not bogging as much as just not cutting quickly, v. the smaller JD. May be my sharpening, but I sharpened both chains (and took down rakers). I think I'm going to try a 16" bar (I'll still have the 20 if needed). The number of bars/chains is bewildering though. I take it that when people say "full chisel" they mean a round grind square tooth chisel, which I think is what is currently on both saws. Also don't know whether I want narrow kerf or not.


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## HitzerHillbilly (Nov 12, 2016)

I run Stihl RS chains on my 311 with a 20" bar and the thing just eats! I love it, so I would also suggest a similar chain.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 12, 2016)

nola mike said:


> I take it that when people say "full chisel" they mean a round grind square tooth chisel, which I think is what is currently on both saws.



The chain in the picture you posted at the top of the thread is semi-chisel, because the bend from the vertical part of the tooth to the horizontal top plate is rounded.  On a full chisel chain that corner would be sharp; a section view from the front or back would look like the numeral 7.

Full chisel chains bite into the wood more easily because the shape of the tooth begets a sharp leading point.  The trade-off, though, is that that very sharp point is fragile, so full chisel chains dull easily in conditions that are less than ideal.  So, chisel chains are really nice in clean wood but problematic when cutting trees that have gotten dirty from falling in/getting dragged through mud or lying in the woods for a while.  When that needle point is dulled just a bit, the performance drops through the floor.  Most homeowner saws like the Husky 450 come standard with semi-chisel, because it's more forgiving for inexperienced users.


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## TreePointer (Nov 12, 2016)

There are three things that you MUST match to your bar when considering a new chain:  PITCH, GAUGE, and number of drive links (DL).

In general, everything else is a matter of preference or desirability for intended use.  Full chisel and semi-chisel describe the shape of the cutter.  Kerf is a measure of how wide a cut the chain makes.  

These days, Husqvarna's 50cc saws come standard with a H30 Pixel chain.  That is .325 pitch, semi-chisel, NK chain.  Going from that chain to a .325 pitch, full chisel, standard kerf chain makes a noticeable difference.

If you are not sure what you have, remove the Husqvarna's bar, and post a picture of the markings stamped on it.


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## nola mike (Nov 12, 2016)

So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.


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## TreePointer (Nov 12, 2016)

nola mike said:


> So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.



Over the years, I've tried various brands of each of those cutter shapes.  I use full chisel on all my saws almost exclusively.

Stihl chain has more chrome plating, which makes it harder than _*standard*_ Oregon/Husqvarna chain.  This helps it to keep its edge longer.  The drawback is that it's a little more expensive and takes harder files to sharpen it. It's a trade-off that works for me.


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## computeruser (Nov 12, 2016)

nola mike said:


> So don't know whether I want full or semi. Maybe I'll try full and see if it dulls too quickly.



I think you will find that the whole bit about round filed "full" chisel dulling to easily is overplayed.  Assuming your saw I said running .325" pitch chain, get a loop of Oregon 20-series chain.  The cutters are really easy to hand-sharpen well and it cuts nicely.  I think that the Stihl stuff takes a slightly wider bite, which consumes more power, and the cutters are harder and therefore take more effort to hand-sharpen.  Having run both, the 20-series Oregon wins out for me.

Also think about the bar length.  20" is way too much for that saw.  I would not go more than 16" on that saw.  If it was mine, it would run 13", which is what my 50cc Husqvarnas run whether they are stock or ported; ported gets to run an 8t rim.  Your cutting technique might need to change with the 13" setup, but it is like using a scalpel instead of a steak knife, and I bet you will grow to like running a saw set up that way.


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## CentralVAWoodHeat (Nov 12, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> Over the years, I've tried various brands of each of those cutter shapes.  I use full chisel on all my saws almost exclusively.
> 
> Stihl chain has more chrome plating, which makes it harder than _*standard*_ Oregon/Husqvarna chain.  This helps it to keep its edge longer.  The drawback is that it's a little more expensive and takes harder files to sharpen it. It's a trade-off that works for me.


Agree. 

OP:  Your stock Husqvarna Chain is the worst feature of that saw.  They are made specifically for low kickback.  While they are a much safer chain, the trade off is the depth gauge shape.  On those particular chains, the depth gauge runs the entire width of the cutting tooth.  This makes each pass with the chain much less productive.  They are also much more difficult to maintain because filing one down, compared to a standard full chisel chain not designed for low kickback, takes forever and typically can only be done to maximum effectiveness with a dremel tool.

I use Carlton Chains, and have also heard great things about Stihl chains.  I've been told Carlton is just a glorified Oregon Chain but it's simply not true.  Even if they come from the same factory (I've been told) Carlton Chains have minimal stretch, sharpen great, and hold an edge very well.

Before switching from a low-kickback chain, make sure you are very skilled in your saw techniques and knowledge.  There is a much higher risk of your saw jerking or kicking back in exchange for faster cutting.


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## nola mike (Nov 17, 2016)

Ok, still researching this, here and at arborist site (my wife, not for the first time, is wondering what's wrong with me). Here's what I think I want:
1. 16" bar, lots of options, not sure whether it matters. Should I get a NK bar, just because it can run either chain?
2. Oregon LPX (this is the same as the "20-series" chain?) or Stihl RS. Are either of these available in NK?
3. NK v. regular? Seems like NK should cut better--are they all low kickback though?
4. Full v reg chisel. I think I'll start with full and see how it holds up. I don't typically cut more than 1/2 cord (at most) at a time.

Someone feel free to give me a link to some specific products that would work with my saw. I want to make sure I get the right stuff. Here's what's on the husky now:


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## Jon1270 (Nov 17, 2016)

You'll have relatively few choices of NK bars, and very few NK chain options.  The rails on a NK bar will be narrower, so they'll wear faster than an otherwise similar standard-kerf bar. 

Basic laminated NK bar

Nicer solid, replaceable-tip, standard-kerf bar

Stihl chisel chain (standard kerf)


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## nola mike (Nov 17, 2016)

How about this more budget combo? 
Oregon Pro-lite knock off
Oregon LPX chain


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## Jon1270 (Nov 17, 2016)

No idea on the Silver Streak bar.

That's a low-vibration chain, and is probably a little slower when the bar's nose is buried.  If you're not trying to win a race, it looks like nice chain.


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## nola mike (Nov 18, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> No idea on the Silver Streak bar.
> 
> That's a low-vibration chain, and is probably a little slower when the bar's nose is buried.  If you're not trying to win a race, it looks like nice chain.


What would be a faster cutting chain? Thought this one and the stihl rs were the ones to be looking at?


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## Jon1270 (Nov 18, 2016)

nola mike said:


> What would be a faster cutting chain? Thought this one and the stihl rs were the ones to be looking at?



Honestly I wouldn't sweat it too much, but equivalents to the Stihl 23RS I linked to would be Oregon 33LG and Woodland Pro 20Rc.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 18, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Honestly I wouldn't sweat it too much, but equivalents to the Stihl 23RS I linked to would be Oregon 33LG and Woodland Pro 20Rc.



I agree don't sweat it

But to clarify and to the best of my knowledge based on my memory but that's not always accurate.....the 33lg is older chain and the LPX was introduced as a better chain because of it's superior anti vibration characteristic. Infact it's the smoothest .325 chain I have ever run and I personally like it better than stihl RS chain. Although it dulls quicker as many have pointed out because it's probably not as hard of metal.

I would not personally run the 33 lg over the LPX. I've not noticed any cutting difference speed, even with bore cutting.

But Jon's right don't sweat it at the end of the day they are all real close. More important is keeping the chain sharp and the rakers in check.

If you want a top 3 or 4 pick for fastest cutting chain and also want the smoothest chain then the LPX is probably the most clear option.

If you don't care about vibration then perhaps grab the Stihl RS or that 33LG chain . But LPX is what I run in .325 and I've run probably all of them at various times and it's just my personal favorite.


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## sportbikerider78 (Nov 18, 2016)

Awesome thread....could you guys give me some options for my Echo 450CS running a stock semi-chisel chain?

I keep it plenty sharp and it is a strong saw...but I think I'm missing out on some speed.  It is about that time for a new chain.


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## nola mike (Nov 18, 2016)

yah, you're right about the 33 lg being older/nla. Also slower according to this thread, which is interesting. 
I think I'm doing way too much reading on something that probably doesn't make much difference for the cord or two a year I buck. Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel


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## Jon1270 (Nov 18, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel



Get one of each.  You need more than one anyhow.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 18, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> Awesome thread....could you guys give me some options for my Echo 450CS running a stock semi-chisel chain?



I don't know the pitch or gauge of the chain that comes standard on that saw, but there's a good chance it runs the same sort of chain we've already been talking about.


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## Dairyman (Nov 18, 2016)

nola mike said:


> yah, you're right about the 33 lg being older/nla. Also slower according to this thread, which is interesting.
> I think I'm doing way too much reading on something that probably doesn't make much difference for the cord or two a year I buck. Now I'm waffling on the full or semi chisel



Just note that those test where done with a more powerful saw than yours. On your saw lpx may be faster or maybe the 95txl. As far as semi vs. full chisel.... Try a loop of each & see what you like.


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## nola mike (Nov 18, 2016)

Sure, one of each.... For science! 
Now, I thought the 20bpx was the semi chisel, but it's listed on the Oregon site as safety chain, while the lpx is not. 
20BPX066G
Is this the stuff?


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## Dairyman (Nov 18, 2016)

It is.


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## nola mike (Nov 18, 2016)

Ok, bought all of the above. I'm going to make timed cuts with the oem setup, and then the new bars and chains. Will keep everyone updated


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## Jon1270 (Nov 18, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Now, I thought the 20bpx was the semi chisel, but it's listed on the Oregon site as safety chain



20BPX is semi-chisel.  As to whether it's "safety" chain, that's a grayer area.  We talk about safety and non-safety chain as if it were a binary distinction, but really it would make more sense to divide chain types into three categories rather than 2. 

Full-on safety chain, with huge bumpers out in front of the rakers, is the stuff that everyone loves to hate -- models like Oregon 33SL or Stihl's 23RM2.  If you meet one of those chains in the wilderness, kill it with fire.  Fortunately those models have become fairly uncommon in recent years.  I doubt my Stihl dealer has any RM2 on the shelf.

Between that nasty old-school safety chain and the much more aggressive "professional" chain that has tiny little rakers are the very popular and quite nice low-vibration chains that have a pivoting ramp next to and leading up to the raker -- models  like the LGX and BPX recommended above, or Stihl's RS3 and RM3.  That ramp makes them smoother, less grabby (thus a bit safer) and maybe a tiny bit slower, but not so much that it's going to bother you if you're not trying to win a race.


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## nola mike (Nov 18, 2016)

Thanks for the education. The bpx is listed as ansi low kickback, while the lpx is not. Where then does the stock 95vp fit into the continuum?


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## woodhog73 (Nov 18, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> As to whether it's "safety" chain, that's a grayer area.
> 
> Full-on safety chain, with huge bumpers out in front of the rakers, is the stuff that everyone loves to hate -- models like Oregon 33SL or Stihl's 23RM2.  If you meet one of those chains in the wilderness, kill it with fire.  Fortunately those models have become fairly uncommon in recent years.  I doubt my Stihl dealer has any RM2 on the shelf.
> 
> Between that nasty old-school safety chain and the much more aggressive "professional" chain that has tiny little rakers are the very popular and quite nice low-vibration chains that have a pivoting ramp next to and leading up to the raker -- models  like the LGX and BPX recommended above, or Stihl's RS3 and RM3.



I think you meant LPX not LGX above. LGX is another discussion 

Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !

Oregon LPX is not safety chain. The anti vibe bumpers should not be confused with low kick back feature. The cutter tooth is placed as such there is no effect on cutting speed due to the anti vibe bumper.

If you want fast cutting chain stay away from any chain listed as low kickback. It's not just marketing hype, the manufacturer has to meet certain requirements in the US to sell chainsaw chain as low kick back. Any low kick back chain is going to cut much slower than non low kick back. Also low kick back chain is same as safety chain


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## Dairyman (Nov 19, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Thanks for the education. The bpx is listed as ansi low kickback, while the lpx is not. Where then does the stock 95vp fit into the continuum?



Thats is a bit confusing in regards to the bpx. It is the same chain except for being semi chisel. Perhaps it's because it's a little less grabby IDK. The 95 vpx & txl will be in the same class as the bpx.


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## Dairyman (Nov 19, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> I think you meant LPX not LGX above. LGX is another discussion
> 
> Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !
> 
> ...




Not all low kickback chains are slouches. Stihls ps3 has always out performed ps out of the box in every comparison I've seen. And the newer styles generally do just as well as their non safety counterparts when cross cutting. 

Like it or not we're slowly moving in the direction of all chain being low kickback. Even lgx & rs are more "safety" than their predecessors due to the enlarged depth gauge. The good news is that they are reducing vibration in the process.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 19, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Stihls RM3 replaced RM2 chain. Both are safety chain and comply with the US requirement that all saws 55cc and under must be sold with stock. Both SUCK !



Gotta disagree with you there; I don't have nearly the problem with RM3 as I do with RM2.  That said, most of the chains I've got hanging around are RS (chisel) variants rather than RM, and I have very little hands-on experience with the newest models of Oregon chain because I have this ridiculous pile of older chains that came with broken saws that I've fixed and sold.  I rarely have reason to buy new chain. I did get LPX and LGX confused above, but it's easy to find debates on AS about which of those is better, and it doesn't look like they even make LGX in .325.

When the bar nose isn't buried in wood, I've found that most chain cuts well if it's sharp, tooth lengths and angles are consistent and raker heights are correct, and learning to maintain all of that is more important and more challenging than shopping for the super-duper-est chain design.  Even the evil Oregon Vanguard is perfectly respectable so long as you have a grinder; I would sooner scrap a loop of that stuff  before I'd hand-file those bent rakers. 

For someone (like me or the OP) who cuts just a couple of cords a year for home firewood, I can't see it mattering quite this much.  I get a lot of satisfaction from a nice saw in good tune -- easy starting, crisp throttle response, listening to it dip in and out of four-stroking on heavy cuts -- with a stream of clean chips or noodles dropping out of the clutch cover.  And it's fun when I have an excuse to bore-cut.  If I get all of that, I could care less about the stop watch.


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## nola mike (Nov 19, 2016)

Sigh. Well then I'm full circle. I just wanted my new saw to cut as well as the less powerful one. Here's a better shot of the jd chain. Looks like 1/4" 0.50. Can someone tell me about what this would compare to? Per my father in law, this thing hasn't been used in at least 20 years...


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## Jon1270 (Nov 19, 2016)

It's unlikely to be 1/4" chain.  Pull it away from the bar and tell us what number is stamped on the drive links.


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## CincyBurner (Nov 19, 2016)

A few observations running my Stihl MS 260 for several years:
I've run safety chain (green chain), as well as pro chain (yellow) - RS (Rapid Super _full-chisel_) and the RM (Rapid Micro _semi-chisel_) and noticed a marked improvement in cutting, but _definitely_ more "grabby" so beware and make sure you are an experienced, safe cutter.
* Keep chain sharp/ maintained.  This is probably easiest and greatest increase in performance improvements.
I use two sharpeners - Timberline saw sharpener and Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X.  The Timberline uses a carbide rotary bit that leaves a consistent, and wickedly sharp edge.  It has guides that permit sharpening at angles of 20* (less aggressive, for hardwood and frozen wood), 25* (standard), and 35* (aggressive for softwood and larger displacement pro saws).  I tried 35* but this definitely reduces the number of sharpenings for a chain.
* Periodically check and sharpen teeth to equal length.  After many sharpening with a particular chain, one side of the cutters or individual teeth, will begin to vary in length causing vibration and stress to chain and saw.  Use micrometer to measure and locate the longest teeth (right and left side).  Sharpen until all teeth same same length.  Makes a big difference.
* Keep depth gauge at proper height.  The Pferd chain saw sharpener guide is a great sharpener especially for the field that simultaneously sharpens cutter teeth and dresses depth gauge.  Stihl caries a variant that is orange.
* I sporadically cut and not that much with my personal saw, so I started using canned fuel mix. Saw seems to run better.


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## CincyBurner (Nov 19, 2016)

CincyBurner said:


> Use micromete


Sorry, dial caliper


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## dougand3 (Nov 20, 2016)

As Jon says, go to the drive link riding inside the rails for chain ID. 72 is one = 3/8 .050. 91 = 3/8LP .050. I THINK 25 on the raker means raker should be .025" below cutter height.


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## nola mike (Nov 20, 2016)

Drive link has "72 "stamp on it.


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## Dairyman (Nov 20, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Drive link has "72 "stamp on it.



Then its 72 dp. 3/8 .050 gauge semi chisel.


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## nola mike (Nov 20, 2016)

So, based on that and/or the pic, what would this chain be comparable to? Because it kicks the crap out of the OEM stuff on the husky...


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## Dairyman (Nov 20, 2016)

It would be comparable to Stihls 33RM3 or carlton A1EP-BL. Full size 3/8 will always out perform the smaller sizes so long as the saw has the power to pull it.


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## nola mike (Nov 20, 2016)

So that's anti kickback? I thought this was 20+ years old at least


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## Dairyman (Nov 20, 2016)

nola mike said:


> So that's anti kickback? I thought this was 20+ years old at least



Low kickback chains have been sold since the mid 70's.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/company/history.htm


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## CTYank (Nov 21, 2016)

CincyBurner said:


> {snip]
> * Periodically check and sharpen teeth to equal length.  After many sharpening with a particular chain, one side of the cutters or individual teeth, will begin to vary in length causing vibration and stress to chain and saw.  Use micrometer to measure and locate the longest teeth (right and left side).  Sharpen until all teeth same same length.  Makes a big difference.
> [snip]



IME of about 40 yrs, matching cutter lengths is a waste of time. File each cutter just enough to get it sharp to the touch, and move on. So long as they're all sharp, with depth gauges set properly, you're good to go. OTOH if cutters on one side are dull, like from hitting debris, and you insist on cutting with it, you likely will need to level the bar rails. If you get OC about cutter lengths, try a grinder. (Nah, save that for rocked chains. )
IME Granberg file guide (same one since '70s) works great for all chain sizes, and depth gauges, for sharpening with least # of strokes and least metal removal.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 21, 2016)

CTYank said:


> IME of about 40 yrs, matching cutter lengths is a waste of time. File each cutter just enough to get it sharp to the touch, and move on. So long as they're all sharp, with depth gauges set properly, you're good to go.



If I could double like or triple like this comment I would. 

I cut a LOT of trees. It's typical for me to be cutting 8 plus hours in the woods and I stop to hand file my chain sometimes twice an hour. I can't stand a dull chain, and any experienced firewood cutter, tree service guy, or timber faller will agree. It takes 5 minutes to cut a notch in a block of wood, set your saw bar in the notch in the woods, and put an edge on your cutters. Totally new saw every 30 minutes. Totally new saw every 1 cord of cutting by a 5 minute field sharpening.

Sure if you have time take a grinder on it. But 99 percent of the time I hand file as fast as possible and move on. 

To the OP put any brand full chisel chain on your saw and you will be happy. Keep a sharp edge. Every 4th or 5th hand filing run a flat file one stroke over your rakers. Then go cut. Anything more is probably overthinking it.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 21, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> If I could double like or triple like this comment I would.
> 
> I cut a LOT of trees. It's typical for me to be cutting 8 plus hours in the woods and I stop to hand file my chain sometimes twice an hour. I can't stand a dull chain, and any experienced firewood cutter, tree service guy, or timber faller will agree. It takes 5 minutes to cut a notch in a block of wood, set your saw bar in the notch in the woods, and put an edge on your cutters. Totally new saw every 30 minutes. Totally new saw every 1 cord of cutting by a 5 minute field sharpening.
> 
> ...




In contrast, I've seen some tree service guys that can't hand-sharpen, and so keep cutting with dull chains to the point that smoke pours out of the cut from the friction. It's unbelievable how much time some of them waste this way.


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## CTYank (Nov 22, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> In contrast, I've seen some tree service guys that can't hand-sharpen, and so keep cutting with dull chains to the point that smoke pours out of the cut from the friction. It's unbelievable how much time some of them waste this way.


Unfortunately, much too common. Lots more than time is wasted- chain, bar, fuel, engine. Worst case is when one side of cutters is hammered more than the other. Makes for a good circle-cutter once you wear down one of the bar rails.
IMO hand-filing is best done with Granberg guide and maybe a stump vise if you're feeling lazy. For me, at least every other fillup of a big tank- a touch.
I'm surprised some of these goons just don't swap the chain around and run it backwards. Makes as much sense.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 22, 2016)

Yep, one of those crews did a bunch of cleanup work on my neighbor's overgrown hillside a couple of weeks ago.  I'd agreed to take some of the wood, so I stopped over when they were just getting started.  I noticed they had an MS362 with a 3-foot bar and commented that it was twice as much bar as they needed for anything on that hill. The foreman/company owner replied, "Yeah, but it's sharp!"  I answered back, "But that one isn't," nodding at a guy running a polesaw that was struggling with a 2" branch.  The foreman agreed: "We run 'em until they're _reaaalll_ dull."  Then he picked up the 362 by the front handle, took hold of the starter, and pulled the rope while throwing the saw out sideways, top towards himself, with the bar hanging straight down and lined up with his crotch.  I... uh... stayed out of the way after that.


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## nola mike (Nov 22, 2016)

What do you guys think of the dremel grinder? I had hand filed, but this seems to do a good job. Certainly not as precise as that granberg, but user friendly for sure.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 22, 2016)

Not sure on a dremel grinder

But have you got good round files ? In the correct size ? Hand filing is not too difficult but the files do wear out. You might want to pick up a new file. They sharpen cutters great when they are new.


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## nola mike (Nov 22, 2016)

I have files somewhere, but don't use them. The dremel has a nice little guide that sits on top of the cutters, and an angle guide. Very easy. I have a depth gauge and flat file for the rakers. A file without a jig is pretty tough to get a consistent angle in any direction. Really, what I should do is sharpen my current chain best I can, get a new 95VP for the 20", and compare it to get an idea if my sharpening skills suck (although again, I sharpened the chain on the JD as well).


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## Dairyman (Nov 22, 2016)

nola mike said:


> What do you guys think of the dremel grinder? I had hand filed, but this seems to do a good job. Certainly not as precise as that granberg, but user friendly for sure.



Some like it. Just don't overheat the cutter. Also monitor the sharpening stones wear. As it deteriorates the angles on the cutter will also. There is an ABN stone available that will last a lot longer. ( I think it will work on a dremel) And keep the gullets cleaned out.


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Nov 23, 2016)

I touch up my chain every once in awhile with this 2 in 1 guide.



This gets me close to where I should be.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 23, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Really, what I should do is sharpen my current chain best I can, get a new 95VP for the 20", and compare it to get an idea if my sharpening skills suck (although again, I sharpened the chain on the JD as well).



I know you said back on the first page that you took down the rakers on the Husky, but I'm wondering if you used a depth gauge or feeler gauge of some sort, or just took a stroke or two off the top and called it good?  I don't think you've posted any photos of the sharpened Husky chain; it might help to do so.


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## nola mike (Nov 25, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> I know you said back on the first page that you took down the rakers on the Husky, but I'm wondering if you used a depth gauge or feeler gauge of some sort, or just took a stroke or two off the top and called it good?  I don't think you've posted any photos of the sharpened Husky chain; it might help to do so.



Rakers were done with a depth gauge. Here's a couple of pics.


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## jetsam (Nov 25, 2016)

I hand sharpen as I go, once or twice per tank, and take the Granberg to it when I get time (every couple tanks or so). I can't go too long without the granberg because my angles start going all wonky.


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## CTYank (Nov 25, 2016)

jetsam said:


> I hand sharpen as I go, once or twice per tank, and take the Granberg to it when I get time (every couple tanks or so). I can't go too long without the granberg because my angles start going all wonky.


Yer basically describing my MO for sharpening on saws with big tanks. Wherever I go with a saw for more than a few quick cuts, a Granberg guide with file(s) to suit goes. Period. If "hand sharpen" means "free handing", I'll pass. Great way to futz-up a chain. OTOH, with said guide, every other fillup, a stroke or so per tooth- Done. Even in clean hardwood, that's about as far as full-chisel chain goes. I'm all about lifetime of chain, bar, engine.

In operating a saw, there's a lot to be said for precision, whether in cuts or chain maintenance. Kinda, sorta, maybe- sub-optimum (lousy) IMO.


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## DUMF (Nov 26, 2016)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> I touch up my chain every once in awhile with this 2 in 1 guide.
> View attachment 188686
> 
> This gets me close to where I should be.



Sean nailed it. If you cut in the "woods", and don't or can't hand file, hire someone who can. Not hard to learn BTW.
Shown is the new, fancy version of the Pferd system that in a stroke does the raker and cutter....simple, easy, usable with your handy stump vise.
Don't have a stump vise ? It's as handy as  $#^%&@, and you can't go in the field without one.
Forget those grinders, they and you normally 'burn' a chain when used wrong, making the steel soft. 
Sooooo---learn to hand file, get the Pferd system ( specific for your chain specs ): licensed to both Stihl and Husky with nice colors.
The older versions take some getting used to. No, I don't have a $$$ stake in Pferd..


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## maple1 (Nov 26, 2016)

I just touch up, using only the file. Freehand. No other tools. Never ever felt the need to pack more tools to the woods, such as a vise or filing guide. I check & if needed touch up the rakers once in a while, back home in my cozy basement, with guage & flat file.

Too easy to whip the file out & spend a couple minutes on a touch up, usually doing it when refueling so it's like a break - adding more time & more tools to the process is a bit of a put off & will likely get the sharpening put off too.


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## DUMF (Nov 26, 2016)

maple1 said:


> I just touch up, using only the file. Freehand. No other tools. Never ever felt the need to pack more tools to the woods, such as a vise or filing guide. I check & if needed touch up the rakers once in a while, back home in my cozy basement, with guage & flat file.
> Too easy to whip the file out & spend a couple minutes on a touch up, usually doing it when refueling so it's like a break - adding more time & more tools to the process is a bit of a put off & will likely get the sharpening put off too.



Hey Maple, a stump vise with the Pferd system which is not a "guide" ( simple with a round file WITH a flat file for the rakers). Both fit into big pockets along with your "kit"--wedges, hammer/axe, blood stopper, tournqs, gauzes, oil/gas tool, whistle, Snickers and beer. You do have a kit ? 

Check out the Pferd, it's not much more than your file with a handle. And that stump vise is small, just pound it into any stump, clamp the bar, and file away. No more holding the bar between your crotch ( danger ) or into a wobbly groove in a log. Both encourage sharpening...fast, easy, accurate.
The new Pferds ( Stihl or Husky ) have fine colours  also ( U.S. = "colors" ).


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## Handsonautotech (Nov 27, 2016)

nola mike said:


> How about this more budget combo?
> Oregon Pro-lite knock off
> Oregon LPX chain


That chain costs almost as much as I pay to have my Stihl chains sharpened.


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## nola mike (Nov 27, 2016)

How about the pferd v. Granberg?


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## nola mike (Nov 27, 2016)

Handsonautotech said:


> That chain costs almost as much as I pay to have my Stihl chains sharpened.


Congratulations?


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## DUMF (Nov 27, 2016)

nola mike said:


> How about the pferd v. Granberg?



No choice. I'm beating this dead horse....again. The Grandberg is an older clamp-on device that WAS OK in its time.
Ignore those who haven't tried the Pferd (s) out. It is better than _______.
All pro chains have witness lines on top of the cutters. Here are the K.I.S.S. instructions:
1. Buy the correct Pferd for your bar/chain specs  ( ~ +/- $25. ) at your local dealer or Baileys.
2. Read the well done docs with the Pferd ( it is German, not IN German ).
3. Clamp the bar, and mark your chain so you don't repeat strokes.
4. Angle the Pferd with the witness line on top of the chain and count the strokes on both sides of the bar.
5. Check that the cutting edge does not reflect light. You are now good to go.
Then thank Sean and me


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## Dairyman (Nov 28, 2016)

nola mike said:


> How about the pferd v. Granberg?



The pferd will give you a sharp chain with set rakers quickly. Some have reported that it takes the rakers down a little to far & makes the chain grabby. You'll have to buy one for each chain size though.

 The granberg will give perfect repeatable angles. It will let you try different angles for faster cutting or a longer lasting edge. And will work on all sizes of chain with just a file swap.


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## Jon1270 (Nov 28, 2016)

At home I use an electric chain grinder for significant remedial work and to take rakers down.  In the field I use a Husqvarna roller guide for touch-ups.  It's a combination that works for me.


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## DUMF (Nov 28, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> At home I use an electric chain grinder for significant remedial work and to take rakers down.  In the field I use a Husqvarna roller guide for touch-ups.  It's a combination that works for me.



Just say "no" to home electric grinders. We did use that Husky roller for years ( it WAS an excellent hand sharpener that did only the edge, not rakers), until, until a pro logger friend showed me truth, the light, the absolute revelation of the Pferd systems. I do believe.
Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders. They can too easily in the wrong hands --me and most of you --ruin by 'burning' or getting the wrong angles or size on those grinders. The set up for the few sizes of chains on multiple saws takes too long for my ale. All of us have a few saws in our pack.
Hey, I can sharpen close to as fast hand sharpening with the wondrous Pferds as you with those electric grinding monsters.  Where do you plug them in in the field ? The Husky roller OR Pferd should be in your woods kit bubba.
The above is fact. Am I now being obnoxious ?


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## jetsam (Nov 28, 2016)

Or you could take a file into the woods, and use a granberg to touch up your mistakes later. 

I may check out that pferd thingy though, sounds interesting.  From a quick peruse, it doesn't appear to have a way to keep cutter lengths consistent?  (If that's so, it could replace the file, but not the granberg.)


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## Jon1270 (Nov 28, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Just say "no" to home electric grinders. We did use that Husky roller for years ( it WAS an excellent hand sharpener that did only the edge, not rakers), until, until a pro logger friend showed me truth, the light, the absolute revelation of the Pferd systems. I do believe.
> Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders. They can too easily in the wrong hands --me and most of you --ruin by 'burning' or getting the wrong angles or size on those grinders. The set up for the few sizes of chains on multiple saws takes too long for my ale. All of us have a few saws in our pack.
> Hey, I can sharpen close to as fast hand sharpening with the wondrous Pferds as you with those electric grinding monsters.  Where do you plug them in in the field ? The Husky roller OR Pferd should be in your woods kit bubba.
> The above is fact. Am I now being obnoxious ?




Dude, you're talking well past the limits of what you actually know. Give it a rest.


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## FaithfulWoodsman (Nov 29, 2016)

I haven't read all the posts on this thread.....so I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Granberg precision grinder. It's their hand grinder mounted to their bar mount system from the original "file N joint".  It takes a bit of practice to get really proficient and accurate on both sides with it, but it gives me better results than paying the local stihl shop. Hooks up to 12v batt. A regular re-sharpen takes only 5-10 minutes and is pro sharp. Like most I touch up with a hand file in the field.


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## woodhog73 (Nov 29, 2016)

DUMF said:


> Just say "no" to home electric grinders.
> 
> Only pro dealers with experienced techs, or pro loggers who NEED to grind, can safely use those electric grinders.



My same buddy who never uses his 2 in 1 in the field ( let's not go over that again I believe it works I'll even try one someday ) also has an electric grinder in the shop. It sharpens awesome every time. It's not mine but I know it works. I'd love to have a grinder of my own. But I don't . If I did I would make use of it.

And no I'm not a pro. that's a subjective term really. Pro ? I've cut with all skill levels. The dairy farmer down the road from me has 500 acres of which 200 acres have been put into forestry management. He is 65 years old and is logging his own land for profit ( along with his 3 sons) at that age and I don't think he would call himself a " pro" but he is probably the most skilled hand feller I have ever cut with. He's been heating is home and farm with wood for years and years. I still look up to him. Friends with the family and help out from time to time.  Don't ask him what a 2 in 1 tool is cause I doubt he knows. 

I've done tree service work before, and have put probably more than 150 trees on the ground this year alone based on memory etc. Close to half on my land or my family's acreage. The rest helping out for part time income or friends.   Not really sure what a certified " pro " is  ( opinions vary on skill level and physical stamina in the woods yes stamina is important time is money).....

but I'm certainly well seasoned and I know 2 facts.... 1) Hand filing without a guide is fine if your good at it. Been doing it that way for 25 years then some.  5 minutes and a sharp file and chips are flying again.

2) An electric grinder is probably the best way to get your chain sharp and back to like new condition as you can get. There's a reason saw shops , businesses ( successful tree services ) etc all have electric grinding machines. Businesses buy chain buy the roll.  They hang 20 plus loops on their trucks. They sharpen those loops every couple days on the grinder and hand file as needed in the field.

Nothing new


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## jetsam (Nov 29, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> 2) An electric grinder is probably the best way to get your chain sharp and back to like new condition as you can get. There's a reason saw shops , businesses ( successful tree services ) etc all have electric grinding machines. Businesses buy chain buy the roll.  They hang 20 plus loops on their trucks. They sharpen those loops every couple days on the grinder and hand file as needed in the field.



I've seen a couple people mention that they feel like a grinder does a better job than a regular granberg. Since I've never tried a grinder, I must ask- why do you say that? Shouldn't results be pretty much the same with, for example, a granberg jig with a file on it and a granberg jig with a grinder on it?

Thanks!


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Nov 30, 2016)

So Nola mike
I think it is time to ask ..... What have you learned from this thread?


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## BenTN (Nov 30, 2016)

FaithfulWoodsman said:


> I haven't read all the posts on this thread.....so I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Granberg precision grinder. It's their hand grinder mounted to their bar mount system from the original "file N joint".  It takes a bit of practice to get really proficient and accurate on both sides with it, but it gives me better results than paying the local stihl shop. Hooks up to 12v batt. A regular re-sharpen takes only 5-10 minutes and is pro sharp. Like most I touch up with a hand file in the field.



i got the Granberg grinder for Christmas last year. i love it. i hand file during my wood cutting excursions and then grind my chain during the saw cleanup before shelving between outings. usually 3-4 tanks of gas, 1-2 cords worth on any excursion. it does have a learning curve tho, mounting and setting depth/height consistently seems to be the hardest part.


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## DUMF (Nov 30, 2016)

Jon1270 said:


> Dude, *you're talking well past the limits of what you actually know*. Give it a rest.



OK, no *dude* ranches in Pittsburgh are there ?   Go Patriots !
So let's do the fact check without the "*dude*" thingee.
The chisel/square chain is used only by users usually full time pros who cut CLEAN large timber like west coast softwood DBH > 30".
That chisel chain is difficult to hand sharpen ( NO, the Pferd will not do it .) but can be hand learned with an 'edged' file. I did ...once upon a time.
Most chainsaw users who cut for themselves, farmers, Eastern loggers use round chains.
Chisel chains dull quickly with ANY kind of debris, dirt, rot. Most of us harvesting for smaller, non commercial amounts of firewood, sawlogs, or pulp  use  the standard round chains since they don't dull as easily as chisels AND are easier and faster to touch up.
After > 2 decades cutting with too many saws, gradually working my way down in bar length and saw size,  that Pferd tool works. Our northern dealer near Canada charges big $$$ to sharpen chisel chains and the 'normal' round ones. He runs hand filing classes since he says that anyone,  even you urbans, should learn to hand sharpen.
Yuh, I am a Pferd enthusiast....no more......Mr. *Dude*. Use a grinder if it does the job.
Sorry I missed the pic details of the chisel chain. The eyes aren't too good in the morning after.


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## TreePointer (Nov 30, 2016)

Electric chain grinders definitely require proper setup and a light touch, and they don't make sense for everyone.  With that being stated, there are plenty of manually skilled people on this board who can do things like weld a proper bead, tie their own flies, or zero a rifle scope.  They certainly can run a chain grinder.

Also note that there are different types of electric grinders, with some being easier than others to use.  If a person knows how to use a standard round file in a guide, I have no trouble having them use a Granberg Grind-N-Joint.


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## maple1 (Nov 30, 2016)

DUMF said:


> OK, no *dude* ranches in Pittsburgh are there ?   Go Patriots !
> So let's do the fact check without the "*dude*" thingee.
> The chisel/square chain is used only by users usually full time pros who cut CLEAN large timber like west coast softwood DBH > 30".
> That chisel chain is difficult to hand sharpen ( NO, the Pferd will not do it .) but can be hand learned with an 'edged' file. I did ...once upon a time.
> ...



I've got 4 decades in, and have only hand filed - no guides, no other tools, and most of the time no handle on the file either.

It's great that you like the Pferd & it does what you want - but that does not mean that everyone should use it, it's the only way to do it, or sharpening any other way is the wrong way. Which is what you are implying with your posts.

(Urbans?)


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## jetsam (Nov 30, 2016)

TreePointer said:


> Electric chain grinders definitely require proper setup and a light touch, and they don't make sense for everyone.  With that being stated, there are plenty of manually skilled people on this board who can do things like weld a proper bead, tie their own flies, or zero a rifle scope.  They certainly can run a chain grinder.
> 
> Also note that there are different types of electric grinders, with some being easier than others to use.  If a person knows how to use a standard round file in a guide, I have no trouble having them use a Granberg Grind-N-Joint.



But if the same operator has access to a grinding and a filing jig of the same approximate type, I can see the grinder being faster, but are his ground chains somehow better than his filed chains?

Trying to ask if anyone sees a difference other than speed, since I've never used a grinder on a chainsaw blade.  (I actually have negative associations with "grinder+blade", because of all the horrible "sharpening" jobs I've seen inflicted on innocent edged implements using bench grinders. . )


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## Jon1270 (Nov 30, 2016)

I think the main benefit of a grinder, aside from speed, is consistency.  I'm not familiar with the Granberg hand-held model, but your typical chain grinder gets set up to bring the stone down in the same place relative to the back of the tooth, cut after cut. It's by far the quickest, easiest way to straighten out any wonkiness from damage or uneven hand filing.  A good grinding job can be very good, but it does take practice, and a top-flight hand filing job is tough to beat.


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## DUMF (Dec 1, 2016)

maple1 said:


> I've got 4 decades in, and have only hand filed - no guides, no other tools, and most of the time no handle on the file either.
> It's great that you like the Pferd & it does what you want - but that does not mean that everyone should use it, it's the only way to do it, or sharpening any other way is the wrong way. Which is what you are implying with your posts.
> (*Urbans*?)



"Urbans" = those living in large urban/cities without acres of woodlands such as Boston, Phillie, Pittsburgh, NYC.

Implying nothing ( no assumptions ) that the Pferd is the *only* filing method or tool. Most chainsawyers of any experience do however know that if you spend any amount of time in woodlots, you've got to know how to hand file...in the field. We do carry a couple of spare sharpened chains for the 2-3 saws working, just in case.
Even then, there's always the odd chance of hitting debris ( under dead oak bark for example ), barbed wire, rot, or a round, here in northern New England.
The expanse and time setting up an electric grinder is more than learning the simple and useful and cheaper hand techniques. Besides, it's too easy to destroy chains with a grinder.

I am impressed that you don't need no stinkin' handle for your files ! Our New England hands are soft.


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## DUMF (Dec 1, 2016)

Besides the sharpening, more important is that too many of you don't use PPE ...always.
One ER visit makes up for that laziness or cheapness not putting on chaps, hard toed boots, helmet system....always. And your brain.
Those of us who have done the blood deeds out of stupidity, know enough with training and experience to don the full monty PPE.
Most common blood is your left thigh, ~ 80% of blood letting. That's the femoral artery BTW.


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## highanddryinco (Dec 1, 2016)

I-Pferd enough. Later Dudes.


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## TreePointer (Dec 2, 2016)

I really don't know who wears PPE all the time and who doesn't.  I've also seen plenty of "pros" on utility crews and loggers who don't wear all PPE or even some PPE all the time.  

Some of the the worst pro cutters I've seen are the utility crews (power, cable, phone, etc.) who work *directly* for the company or municipality. 

The average barometric pressure on Mars is 0.6 kPa.

BUT WE DIGRESS...

Later, Dudes!


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## DUMF (Dec 2, 2016)

highanddryinco said:


> I-Pferd enough. Later *Dudes*.





TreePointer said:


> I really don't know who wears PPE all the time and who doesn't.  I've also seen plenty of "pros" on utility crews and loggers who don't wear all PPE or even some PPE all the time.
> Some of the the worst pro cutters I've seen are the utility crews (power, cable, phone, etc.) who work *directly* for the company or municipality.
> The average barometric pressure on Mars is 0.6 kPa.
> BUT WE DIGRESS...
> Later, *Dudes*!



More "dude" dude.  What rock did this "dude" thing come out from ?
Dude dude.  Dude, dude. This some kind of secret code ....dude ?   Enough...dude.
Single syllable short for "duty" ?
No "dudes" in Northeast Kingdom. Dude huh .


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## Hasufel (Dec 3, 2016)

DUMF said:


> More "dude" dude.  What rock did this "dude" thing come out from ?
> Dude dude.  Dude, dude. This some kind of secret code ....dude ?   Enough...dude.
> Single syllable short for "duty" ?
> No "dudes" in Northeast Kingdom. Dude huh .


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## Sean McGillicuddy (Dec 5, 2016)

Dude!


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## firefighterjake (Dec 5, 2016)

Dude . . . I think I know how to play this game.


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## Handsonautotech (Dec 7, 2016)

nola mike said:


> Congratulations?



Sorry I had the flu and misplaced mh manners.  I think my point was you might want to invest more then the cost of a sharpening in a chain that should last you a few years with your light usage.


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## nola mike (Feb 11, 2017)

Ok, put the BPX on with the 16" bar, and...
No difference. I had sharpened the old chain again, and it cut pretty quickly. Both took about 18 seconds to cut through 15" elm round. If anything, the 20" bar was a bit quicker. Really though, pretty close. Nice fat chips from both chains. I bogged once or twice with the large bar, but nothing significant. I'm going to pick up some wood tomorrow. I may or may not try out the lpx tomorrow, but will compare bpx v. lpx when I c/s/s next week.


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## Handsonautotech (Feb 13, 2017)

nola mike said:


> Ok, put the BPX on with the 16" bar, and...
> No difference. I had sharpened the old chain again, and it cut pretty quickly. Both took about 18 seconds to cut through 15" elm round. If anything, the 20" bar was a bit quicker. Really though, pretty close. Nice fat chips from both chains. I bogged once or twice with the large bar, but nothing significant. I'm going to pick up some wood tomorrow. I may or may not try out the lpx tomorrow, but will compare bpx v. lpx when I c/s/s next week.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Feb 14, 2017)

maple1 said:


> I've got 4 decades in, and have only hand filed - no guides, no other tools, and most of the time no handle on the file either.



I've been hand filing too. Not quite 4 decades, but close. I tried a file guide about 35 years ago but the bare file worked better for me. I've cut with people who use grinders and for the first 1/2 hour their chain seems about as sharp as mine. But mine stays sharp a lot longer. Not sure why but it's hard to beat a pair of leather gloves and a round file.


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