# Basement Ceiling Painting?



## mass_burner (Sep 5, 2015)

OK, I'm all over the place on how to "finish" my basement ceiling office/lounge area. I've removed all the badly installed drywall and improperly sized pink insulation,  removed all unused wiring and isolated needed wiring so my electrician can wire in 4" buckets. 

My latest idea was simply to cut 4x6 drywall rectangles and fasten directly to joist faces over commonly used areas, leaving the exposed ceiling to show between . The cans would be installed in these rectangles.

I put one up as a test but I wasn't feeling it. I'm thinking now, what about just painting the ceiling a soothing gray and installing the buckets between the joists?


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## heat seeker (Sep 5, 2015)

You might want a brighter color so it doesn't feel gloomy overhead. White ceilings are white for a reason, but every situation is different.


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## ironpony (Sep 5, 2015)

if you are leaving the joists and mechanicals exposed, paint everything flat black then hang your cans in-between with or without the tiles.you can paint the tiles a lighter color so they stand out or dark so they blend. look up in restaurants and you will see this is what a lot of them do.


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 5, 2015)

I've seen basement ceilings painted flat black.  It looked awesome.  It wasn't the best for bouncing light back, but I don't think it looked like the ceiling was lower.  It just seemed to disappear.


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## mass_burner (Sep 5, 2015)

I have a gas pipe coming in that runs in the exact channel that all my A/V wires run. Is it safe to use the remaining room in the hole for cable, HDMI, cat5 cable?


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 5, 2015)

If I understand correctly you have a joist that has a hole drilled in it that a gas line runs through.  You want to snake a wire through the hole.  As long as it isn't tight I'd do it.  Too tight and when the house expands and contracts, moves, it could rip insulation and cause a problem.  But if it's a 2" hole with 3/4" black pipe running through it, why not.


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## semipro (Sep 6, 2015)

I've been looking for ways to "finish" our basement ceiling also.  
I've seen two ways lately that interested me.  On one they installed only the grid for a suspended ceiling, not the panels them selves,and everything else was painted flat black.  On another everything was painted black except a grid made of some tensile cord that was laid out in 2x2 squares and only fastened at the sidewalls.


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## mass_burner (Sep 6, 2015)

EatenByLimestone said:


> If I understand correctly you have a joist that has a hole drilled in it that a gas line runs through.  You want to snake a wire through the hole.  As long as it isn't tight I'd do it.  Too tight and when the house expands and contracts, moves, it could rip insulation and cause a problem.  But if it's a 2" hole with 3/4" black pipe running through it, why not.


Looks like a 1" pipe in a 2" hole.


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## mass_burner (Sep 6, 2015)

semipro said:


> I've been looking for ways to "finish" our basement ceiling also.
> I've seen two ways lately that interested me.  On one they installed only the grid for a suspended ceiling, not the panels them selves,and everything else was painted flat black.  On another everything was painted black except a grid made of some tensile cord that was laid out in 2x2 squares and only fastened at the sidewalls.


Why would you go to the trouble of putting in a grid and not use the tiles?


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## mass_burner (Sep 6, 2015)

My office/lounge area is ~20' x 15 rectangle less the chimney with an open fireplace facing the lounge area. Along one wall is the coffee/snack area, 52" TV and AV area: the other wall has my desk and wraps around to the lounge where a have a sectional in front of the fireplace. The TV is on a rolling cabinet, so it can swivel to face any direction in the basement.

I want to put an insert/ free stander in the FP, but that's another thread.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 6, 2015)

I have fiberglass batts stuffed in the floor joists.  They droop, etc.
I was going to do this:  http://ceilinglink.com/
Then, I thought, how about cover it all up by stapling up black landscape fabric?
Then, I moved in six tons of pellets on pallets.
Now, my plan is to throw up some wire supports.


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## maple1 (Sep 6, 2015)

I like the flat black paint idea.


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## mass_burner (Sep 6, 2015)

X


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 6, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> Looks like a 1" pipe in a 2" hole.




I think there's more than a enough room for a 12 or 14g wire.


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## fbelec (Sep 7, 2015)

i had a customer that did over his basement and needed 12 recessed can for light but instead i installed 12 ceiling boxes put the 3 dollar basement porcelain fixture and fitted screw in led bulbs. bright as the sun down there for minimal power and can be dimmed. cost was way cheaper and didn't look to bad. his ceiling was brown painted peg board. my basement has a short ceiling. so of course it has recessed lighting but the ceiling is sheetrock and because it is low it is easy to hit the ceiling with hands or something. so i painted it semigloss white and it is easy to wash off marks or finger prints. flat ceiling paint if you get a mark on it good luck.. and the semigloss make it look a little taller.


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## burnham (Sep 7, 2015)

I wanted to clean up my basement, but wasn't ready to put up blue board and plaster the ceiling and walls yet.  I just put tyvek on the ceiling with the writing facing up, and installed some 8' fluorescent fixtures.   It looks good enough now, and I won't feel bad about tearing it down in a couple years.


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## semipro (Sep 8, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> Why would you go to the trouble of putting in a grid and not use the tiles?


It defines the space and tends to fool the eye/brain into thinking a full ceiling is there where there is none.


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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 8, 2015)

I have always wanted to use tin roofing as a ceiling.  It is shiney, reflects light, and its industrial.

Need to access plumping?  Drop it down for easy access and put it back up.


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## fbelec (Sep 8, 2015)

not everybody has this option but i replaced every pipe and wire in the house so that i could have a drywall ceiling. thinking that would kill some of the noise between floors. WRONG. i should have insulated.


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## mass_burner (Sep 9, 2015)

It's funny, the more options I consider, the simpler it's getting. I am having the space rewired safely and 4" cans installed between the joists. I'm gonna see what it looks like and go from there, may paint, I'm not sure. I also need to address 3 walls and floor.


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## vinny11950 (Sep 9, 2015)

I am now slowly tearing down the sheet rock ceiling from the previous owner.  I have to do plumbing and electrical work.  I am not putting it back up.  It is going to be painted  or a lite material drop ceiling.

Even now I curse the previous owner for putting up sheet rock in the basement.

Do a Google search for Paint Basement Ceiling.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 9, 2015)

As a followup note, I put up the fiberglass batt insulation support wires yesterday, so it's not drooping.   I'll tell myself it looks like clouds.

For the walls I used xps foam and covered with dens armour plus sheetrock, which is supposed to be mold resistant.  I just finished taping and painting that a couple of days ago as well-after a waiting period of YEARS.

Of course, one side has got 6 tons of pellets against it, and I'm thinking of shelves for another wall.

I had thought of staining the concrete floor and using area rugs.  A lot of preparation, and there's no way to guarantee that a first time job by me would work.  There's even similar preparation called for with paint.  I also thought of covering the floor with xps and tap conning osb down, but I'm thinking now, in retrospect, that rolling one ton pallets around on that might have a chance of not working out, lol.


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## mass_burner (Sep 9, 2015)

My ideas:

Floors: sand down smooth, and use a few area rugs. 

Chimney wall, its already  painted a clean white, will just clean up and retouch bad areas.

Fireplace front, its red brick, the coarse type, don't know what it's called, but I'm not particularly a fan. May reface in the future.

Poured walls: leave concrete grey. Accent with walnut here and there.

My daughter suggested to put black construction paper in the ceiling joist bays and add string star lights so it looks like the night sky.


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## Corey (Sep 14, 2015)

I sheet rocked the basement ceiling and painted it flat jet black.  We use the room mostly as 'home theater', but surprisingly the black doesn't make it feel 'close' or 'tight'.  To me, it's actually the white / bright colors that make things feel 'closed in' because your eye picks up the 'surface' and establishes that as a barrier.  When the wall is dark / black...more like walking outside on a starry night.

Some people like to leave the basement ceiling open for 'access', but I didn't see sheet rocking it as any worse than a 2-story house, or the pipe/electrical runs which are already in the walls.  Most everything else is going wireless, or nearly so, so 'fishing wires' wasn't a big concern.  I didn't want to loose height to a dropped ceiling, plus didn't like the look and leaving the joists open just seemed like a fire hazard... so 'rock it and pretend you're downstairs in a two story!


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## mass_burner (Sep 14, 2015)

Sheet rock is out out of the question., besides, I like the modern/industrial look. I'm going to experiment with flat black  paint in joists and see what I think.


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## semipro (Sep 15, 2015)

Corey said:


> Some people like to leave the basement ceiling open for 'access', but I didn't see sheet rocking it as any worse than a 2-story house, or the pipe/electrical runs which are already in the walls


I'd say this depends on the house and that most have far more stuff in the basement ceiling that needs to be accessed than in the upper level ceilings.  This is definitely the case in any house we've occupied anyway.


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## semipro (Sep 15, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> Sheet rock is out of the question., besides, I like the modern/industrial look. I'm going to experiment with flat black  paint in joists and see what I think.


Let us know how it goes.  I may do the same and just add some sort of faux grid to establish a "virtual" ceiling (if needed).


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## mass_burner (Sep 16, 2015)

semipro said:


> Let us know how it goes.  I may do the same and just add some sort of faux grid to establish a "virtual" ceiling (if needed).


I have a sample pint, think I'll just paint some cardboard slices and tack up to test.


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## velvetfoot (Sep 16, 2015)

Would you have to spray to cover everything?


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## semipro (Sep 16, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> I have a sample pint, think I'll just paint some cardboard slices and tack up to test.


A sample pint sounds too good to waste on cardboard.


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## mass_burner (Sep 16, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> Would you have to spray to cover everything?


I don't think so, I could use a roller to hit the big areas, but the inner sides might tougher ti get to, would need to come back with a brush.


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## mass_burner (Sep 23, 2015)

Got a quote of 2k to redo/add basement lighting, 4 outlets, 2 switches, 4 recessed lights and tuck all wiring into joist bays.

I'm gonna do it myself. The PO already added a new circuit to the area. My plan is to add all the wiring/boxes in parallel, then when it's done, switch the feed coming from the panel to the new wiring.


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## semipro (Sep 23, 2015)

That reminds me of another reason I don't like drywall basement ceilings - all circuit "splices", at least those in boxes, need to be accessible.  Above removable ceiling panels is considered "accessible".  Behind drywall is not accessible.  In the drywall is ugly.


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## mass_burner (Sep 23, 2015)

semipro said:


> That reminds me of another reason I don't like drywall basement ceilings - all circuit "splices", at least those in boxes, need to be accessible.  Above removable ceiling panels is considered "accessible".  Behind drywall is not accessible.  In the drywall is ugly.



x2. i'm lucky that on this part of the basement there is minimal service for wiring and copper. so it looks pretty wide open


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## mass_burner (Sep 24, 2015)

I started running my wire runs, I read somewhere to make 1" holes for 14/2 wire, that seems excessive. Can I go with 5/8?


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## fbelec (Sep 25, 2015)

that is a fairly new discussion in code class. i am not clear on that but the one inch hole can only have two cables thru it. the two cables per hole is what i remember but not the requirement to be one inch. i do know that two cables thru a 5/8 inch hole is a squeeze.


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## mass_burner (Sep 26, 2015)

fbelec said:


> that is a fairly new discussion in code class. i am not clear on that but the one inch hole can only have two cables thru it. the two cables per hole is what i remember but not the requirement to be one inch. i do know that two cables thru a 5/8 inch hole is a squeeze.


Yea, you never know when your going to need room another wire, I'll go 3/4 where that might seem possible.


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## fbelec (Sep 27, 2015)

even with a 3/4 inch 2 wires max. my code teacher said a 2 inch hole 2 wires.


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## fbelec (Sep 27, 2015)

dumb i know?????


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## mass_burner (Sep 27, 2015)

fbelec said:


> even with a 3/4 inch 2 wires max. my code teacher said a 2 inch hole 2 wires.


Why? What's the rationale?


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## fbelec (Sep 27, 2015)

when it comes to the code book i can't figure any rationale. they make up a code or half a code just to either change it back or add onto just to complete it every three years.


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## mass_burner (Sep 29, 2015)

So I'm wiring my two light circuits to a double wall box, and I realize that 3 12/2  wires won't fit in a 1/2 emd conduit. Isn't this a common scenario?


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## fbelec (Sep 29, 2015)

yes that's why we don't feed romex thru pipe unless it is one cable. if you are running a pipe running from the circuit panel to the switchbox that's when you run thhn wires thru the pipe. if it is emt all you will need to run is 2 black wires and one white. and make sure that the 2 circuit breakers are one above the other in the panel and your shared neutral will be fine. if you can't put the breakers on opposite phases (one above the other) then run a 2nd neutral. the pipe will serve as the ground.


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## mass_burner (Sep 29, 2015)

OK, I used the term circuit incorrectly. I meant that I have 2 lights on each switch operated separately. Its all the same circuit. 
So I have Romex from each light run and my power Romex that needs to get through the pipe into  the double switch handy box.


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## fbelec (Sep 29, 2015)

if you are using a handy box that is way to small for three romex's. you will need 2 new work 2.5 inch box put together for what you are doing. new work has the mounting bracket on the side of the metal box.


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## mass_burner (Sep 29, 2015)

The handy box I'm using is a 2 switch, double box. Why wouldn't the wires fit.
And if used the 2 new work boxes, would I need 2 pipes?


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## fbelec (Sep 29, 2015)

the code is cubic inches of wire and devices in a box. don't know off hand the 2 gang handy box cubic inch rating but for what you need is a box that has 22 cubic inch rating or higher. i don't have my code book handy it's out in my truck.


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## mass_burner (Sep 29, 2015)

So if the 4 x 4 handy box checks out OK, can I upgrade to 3/4 emt for this one box.


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## sportbikerider78 (Sep 30, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> I don't think so, I could use a roller to hit the big areas, but the inner sides might tougher ti get to, would need to come back with a brush.



Do yourself a favor and spray.  It will take 1/4 the time and you'll just drop cloth the floor.  

Painting over your head is the worst.


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## mass_burner (Sep 30, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> Do yourself a favor and spray.  It will take 1/4 the time and you'll just drop cloth the floor.
> 
> Painting over your head is the worst.


I spray painted a cardboard strip as wide as the joist bay about 6' long and pressed it up there to see what it would look like. Looks okay, but I'm gonna go natural for a while, see how I like it.


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## mass_burner (Oct 1, 2015)

fbelec said:


> the code is cubic inches of wire and devices in a box. don't know off hand the 2 gang handy box cubic inch rating but for what you need is a box that has 22 cubic inch rating or higher. i don't have my code book handy it's out in my truck.


The 2 gang box I'm using is 3.3 cu in.


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## fbelec (Oct 3, 2015)

i haven't heard of a 2 gang handy box. so what does your box measure? if it;'s 2 gang it is 4 inches by 4 inches by how deep? 3.3 doesn't make sense because if that were true you would only be able to fit one 14 ga wire not a cable with white, black and ground. 33 maybe. if you are using the box i think you are 3/4 emt is good. but use thhn wire make it easy on yourself don't try to pull 3 romex's thru that pipe. in a 1/2 inch pipe you should be able to pull 9 wires thru that pipe. thhn wire.


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## fbelec (Oct 3, 2015)

try this for sizing.
http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...atalog-pdfs/cp-catalog-outlet-box-section.pdf


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## fbelec (Oct 3, 2015)

remember each switch or plug counts as two what ever size wires that you are using. meaning 2 switches with 14 ga wire the switches would take up 8 cubic inch out of that box size. but do remember that what ever cover you are using regular cover or plaster ring will add cubic inch to the box.


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## mass_burner (Oct 3, 2015)

fbelec said:


> i haven't heard of a 2 gang handy box. so what does your box measure? if it;'s 2 gang it is 4 inches by 4 inches by how deep? 3.3 doesn't make sense because if that were true you would only be able to fit one 14 ga wire not a cable with white, black and ground. 33 maybe. if you are using the box i think you are 3/4 emt is good. but use thhn wire make it easy on yourself don't try to pull 3 romex's thru that pipe. in a 1/2 inch pipe you should be able to pull 9 wires thru that pipe. thhn wire.


Yes, the box is 4x4, about 3" deep. Its funny, I was at ace hdw and some of the boxes were labeled 3.3 and others the same size were 33. The one I used was marked 33. I ended up using a 3/4 pipe, 3 12/2 nm fit thru fine. It was a bit of a struggle to get everything pushed back in, but it worked. 

I think that was the hard part, now I only have the outlets and A/V receptacles to go. Oh, and reroute the feed from the panel.


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## fbelec (Oct 4, 2015)

nice having a 33 cube box. you have 24.75 used plus the cover so you will have plenty of room for dimmers
( 12 ga is 2.25 cube per wire)


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## mass_burner (Oct 4, 2015)

I bought the wrong junction box, so I need to get the right one. Basically, I'm fixing an open splice at one point and branching from the power to the lights to the outlets in another. 

I noticed the electrician from a past job used an ivory colored box for such purposes, but I've never seen them at big box stores. Should I just use the basic blue boxes?


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## mass_burner (Oct 5, 2015)

Any ideas on metal support poles an steel i-beam in ceiling? I was thinking of lightly sanding and painting with stainless steel paint.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 6, 2015)

I wonder if flat black wouldn't go better than the ceiling and not be as conspicuous, but then again, I've been told I'm colorblind.


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## mass_burner (Oct 6, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> I wonder if flat black wouldn't go better than the ceiling and not be as conspicuous, but then again, I've been told I'm colorblind.


I thought that first, maybe the i-beam, but the vertical pole, idk. Maybe paint then to match the walls.


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## fbelec (Oct 6, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> I bought the wrong junction box, so I need to get the right one. Basically, I'm fixing an open splice at one point and branching from the power to the lights to the outlets in another.
> 
> I noticed the electrician from a past job used an ivory colored box for such purposes, but I've never seen them at big box stores. Should I just use the basic blue boxes?



 the color of the box is just a color. but if you are using emt you can't use plastic boxes of any kind. if you are going to sleeve those romex's in a pipe it has to be pvc pipe if using a plastic box.


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## mass_burner (Oct 7, 2015)

What is the rule for using PVC/EMT tubing in the ceilings, only if it's hidden?


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## fbelec (Oct 9, 2015)

you can use either one but the plastic device boxes don't have knock outs for pipe. if you use metal in a plastic junction box you will have to find a way to ground the pipe. probably with a grounding bushing. just way easier to use the romex to plastic boxes. i had a customer keep the open ceiling with romex and sprayed the ceiling black. it stuck out less with romex than pipe.


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## mass_burner (Oct 9, 2015)

So I'm working my way through it slowly. Boy, working with 12/2 is tough on the hands. It doesn't help that I'm a bit fussy about having it look neat and tidy. I have the double dimmer switches wired and installed, all my runs in place and have taken out most of the old wiring on this circuit. Just need to wire the 2 remaining cans  and then install the 3 outlets on the other wall. Oh, and fix the open splice coming from the panel, I'm moving it back toward the corner to make the wiring neater along the perimeter rather than out in the middle.


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## fbelec (Oct 9, 2015)

sounds like you have a handle on it. i would have run 14ga for the lights much easier to work with. if you think 12 is hard try working with 10ga in a device box


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## mass_burner (Oct 10, 2015)

fbelec said:


> sounds like you have a handle on it. i would have run 14ga for the lights much easier to work with. if you think 12 is hard try working with 10ga in a device box


I tan 12 cause I'm on a 20 A circuit, plus the feed from the panel is 12, and it would have been a pita to resource it. I read not to mix 14 and 12.


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## mass_burner (Oct 11, 2015)

So, why don't they make delete plates for blue plastic boxes? If you use a blue box to make a splice, aren't you supposed to cover the box?


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## fbelec (Oct 11, 2015)

there is a blank plate for device boxes 1 and 2 gang


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## mass_burner (Oct 16, 2015)

fbelec said:


> there is a blank plate for device boxes 1 and 2 gang


Yea, I figured out that they didn't need to make blue covers since a standard wall delete plate will fit. 

New question, I am also rewiring an existing circuit, 15A, that only services lights, no outlets, that was wired in 1958.
Can I use 14/2 for this circuit?

Also, all this older wiring has no ground wires. What do I with the ground from the new wiring.


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## mass_burner (Nov 8, 2015)

velvetfoot said:


> I wonder if flat black wouldn't go better than the ceiling and not be as conspicuous, but then again, I've been told I'm colorblind.


Does the flat black or darker color go for the walls too? I tested some lighter colors and wasn't a fan.


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## fbelec (Nov 12, 2015)

mass_burner said:


> Yea, I figured out that they didn't need to make blue covers since a standard wall delete plate will fit.
> 
> New question, I am also rewiring an existing circuit, 15A, that only services lights, no outlets, that was wired in 1958.
> Can I use 14/2 for this circuit?
> ...




i answered this question a while ago but some how it got lost. sorry for the delay. you can't add on to the old wiring with no ground. no lights, switches or outlets. you will have to run a new circuit.


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## mass_burner (Nov 12, 2015)

fbelec said:


> i answered this question a while ago but some how it got lost. sorry for the delay. you can't add on to the old wiring with no ground. no lights, switches or outlets. you will have to run a new circuit.


What a coincidence, I was leaving HD last night and there was a guy putting about 6 rolls of wire in his truck. Turns out he's an electrician. I asked him this question. 

He said as an electrician, he couldn't do it. But then said if it was his home, he'd do it as long there was no new outlets/lights added.


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## mass_burner (Dec 24, 2015)

Basement insulating...I've segregated a corner of my basement for office/lounge area. Installed drolet 1800i. I'm thinking, could I build insulated movable walls to make the space smaller, thus containing more heat? That would allow me to only need to insulate 1 external wall for about 30 linear ft', rather than 1800 sq ft perimeter.


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