# Varmebaronen doesn't like oak



## colcarlmiss (Feb 17, 2010)

Smokelessheat.com is selling Varmebaronen in the US and I was almost to buy the Vedolux 37 boiler but when I read the installation, operation and maintenance manual and found to my surpriset it don't like oak and I changed my mind.

Because of the high acidity of oak wood, it should not be used
as a fuel for extended periods. Oak should be seasoned for
more than three years before it is burned.

In my area read oak and white oak are the predominant firewood species and three years is a long time.
Is this oak  precaution valid for all gasification boilers or is it unique for Varmebaronen.
I like their design a lot but they do not give any warranty.

Arne


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## Singed Eyebrows (Feb 17, 2010)

colcarlmiss said:
			
		

> Smokelessheat.com is selling Varmebaronen in the US and I was almost to buy the Vedolux 37 boiler but when I read the installation, operation and maintenance manual and found to my surpriset it don't like oak and I changed my mind.
> 
> Because of the high acidity of oak wood, it should not be used
> as a fuel for extended periods. Oak should be seasoned for
> ...


 Arne; If it fits through the door on my Atmos it will burn it. There is no exclusion for oak or any other wood, Randy


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## heaterman (Feb 17, 2010)

colcarlmiss said:
			
		

> Smokelessheat.com is selling Varmebaronen in the US and I was almost to buy the Vedolux 37 boiler but when I read the installation, operation and maintenance manual and found to my surpriset it don't like oak and I changed my mind.
> 
> Because of the high acidity of oak wood, it should not be used
> as a fuel for extended periods. Oak should be seasoned for
> ...



Out of curiosity, what wood species do they recommend? I'll agree that oak is more acidic than some types of wood but I have never heard of a manufacturer warning against its use.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 17, 2010)

Ok, I'll bite . . . does MS stand for Mississippi? You need central heat down there? Or does this unit you are thinking of buying also cool & dry the air?

I'll trade ya all the Hemlock and Aspen ya want for your Oak. Cause I'm a nice guy that way


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## chuck172 (Feb 17, 2010)

This oak burning issue will be big. I'll bet you see more manufacturers limit oak burning in their warranties. The high acid content will shorten the steel life expectancy as well as drastically increase the breakdown rate of  the combustion area refractory.
I think here in America, with all the oaks used for firewood, this factor will hurt the wood/boiler industry.


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## dzook (Feb 17, 2010)

The point is not to burn unseasoned oak. During our training in Sweden that particular point in the manual was discussed. They are not opposed to burning oak, in fact they do burn oak. Oak may not take 3 years in every case to season but it generally takes much longer that some other species. Just make sure its 20% or better. If someone gives a steady diet of unseasoned oak there can be more problems and they want the customer to be aware.  If they are given a steady diet of seasoned oak you shouldn't expect any problems. I find two years is about the right amount of time that my oak wood gets to proper moisture content, but we all know its very dependent on where its stored, how its split, and when it was cut, etc. etc.

The problems they noticed in their experience with the oak issue was not so much a breakdown of the boiler exchange tubes but the flues/chimneys of those burning steady diets of oak had more problems with the corrosiveness of the exhaust making flue failures or breakdown of mortar in traditional masonry chimneys and metal roofs had corrosive issues.  With those problems they saw had one thing in common usually and it was burning unseasoned oak.

Almost exclusively in their experience what caused their boiler failures was anyone not giving proper return water protection. All their systems must be used with storage as per their burn design. Some premature ceramic failures seen were common with burning wood other than standard firewood like 2x6 cutoffs that may have chemical treatment. 

I personally burn oak in the one I use, although I don't give it a steady diet of oak only because I don't have enough of oak.


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## twitch (Feb 17, 2010)

My Tarm (Scandtec) 30 manual also says not to burn oak for extended periods of time.  It doesn't give an explanation, but I've heard about the acidity thing before.  I was assuming it was causing problems with the boiler steel, never thought about connector pipe and chimney problems.

I have 10 acres and it's about 75% red oak, so I'm burning it, just mixing in some beech and maple with it.


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## WoodNotOil (Feb 17, 2010)

twitch said:
			
		

> I have 10 acres and it's about 75% red oak, so I'm burning it, just mixing in some beech and maple with it.



What a nice lot of wood  If it were me I would burn the oak and beech and make furniture out of the maple...

I would suspet these Swedish units are very well made.  That country as a whole has a great reputation for producing quality products.  I like that it has specific tanks designed as part of the system.  While we have had a variety of Euro gassers available here, the storage tanks they use over there haven't always been available with them.  I will be very interested to see feedback on these from anyone using them.


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## dogwood (Feb 17, 2010)

My Tarm (Baxi) Solo Innova says in the manual "Oak should not be burned as the only source of wood for long periods because of its high acid content". They do not specify what type of damage to what parts of the boiler may be incurred, or how long an "extended period" may be. A few weeks prior to getting the boiler and manual, I purchased several cords of oak logs, which I had already cut and split. I'm planning on mixing the oak in with some locust and other miscellaneous species and hoping for the best. I'm going to try and obtain locust logs instead next time around. Wish I had known.

I wonder if anyone else with any brand of boiler has had any problems they could attribute to burning too much oak. And what the problems were, to what parts of the boiler, so anyone burning oak could check those parts for any signs of corrosion. Or if you burn lots of oak, or a steady diet of oak, and have had no issues, that would be pertinent to know too.

Mike


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## dzook (Feb 17, 2010)

To clarify a bit on this quote...



> I like their design a lot but they do not give any warranty.






This is a partial copy of the current warranty statement.

-------

WARRANTY

Smokeless Heat, LLC warrants all the parts your Varmebaronen boiler to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of 2 years from the original date of purchase. Smokeless Heat, LLC also provides a warranty for your Varmebaronen boiler’s steel body to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of 10 years.

If you discover a defect in a product covered by this warranty, we will repair, or if repair is not possible, replace the item.

EXCLUSIONS

This warranty covers defects in manufacturing discovered while using the product as recommended by the manufacturer as specified in the manual.  The warranty does not cover loss or theft, nor does coverage extend to damage caused by misuse, abuse, unauthorized modification, improper storage conditions, lightening, or natural disasters.  The warranty does not cover consumable parts after the second years that are subject to normal wear and tear replacement, such as the ceramics grate or the removable combustion tunnel parts.

LIMITS OF LIABILITY

Should the product(s) fail, your sole recourse shall be repair or replacement, as described in the preceding paragraphs.  We will not be held liable to you or any other party for any damages that result from the failure of this product.  Damages excluded, are, but are not limited to the following: lost profits, lost savings, lost data, damage to other equipment, and incidental or consequential damages arising from the use, or inability to use this product.  In no event will Smokeless Heat, LLC be liable for more than the amount of your purchase price, and excluding tax, shipping and handling charges.

Smokeless Heat, LLC disclaims any other warranties express or implied.  By installing or using the product, the user accepts all terms described herein.


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The history of claims as relayed by the manufacturer in almost every case that if something doesn't happen in 1-2 years that all will be well for 10 or more. The ceramic parts are know to last 10-15 years but can fail earlier depending on what is being burned and other factors. They are a couple of hundred dollars in most cases and are simple to change and takes hour or so. 

The operation and care part of the manual show how to increase the service life of the consumable parts.


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## Nofossil (Feb 17, 2010)

From what I saw of the Varmebaronen, it looks like a very well made boiler. Given the Swede's reputation for high quality steel, I'd be amazed if there is anything about the Varmebaronen that makes it more vulnerable to acid damage from oak than any other gasifier. I suspect that the lower flue temps in gasifiers make them more vulnerable to condensation if you burn wood with high MC, and if that wood is oak then the condensate will be quite acidic. I remember pictures of an EKO that had been idling a lot and lived on a diet of pretty green wood. It had condensate streaks all over the front, and I suspect at all the flue joints as well. If that condensate had been acidic, I'm sure it would shorten the life of the boiler.

I'm personally modifying my standard warning to prospective gasifier owners. Where I used to just say "They really like dry wood" I think I'll add "Especially, don't burn wet oak".


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 18, 2010)

My GW lives on a diet of 95% oak. Not greatly seasoned (unsplit)

'Course . . . my skin did corrode through the iron nipple . . . you don't suppose . . .?


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## dogwood (Feb 18, 2010)

Where do you think damage from too much oak burning would be most evident, or likely to occur in a gassifier, including the flue? I'd like to be checking for early warning signs. How long is is taking any of you to get your oak splits down to 20% moisture content? I was planning on this happening by next fall, for wood cut last summer, 2009.

Mike


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## Nofossil (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm going to speculate that if there's a problem, it will be at places where flue gas hits cold steel. That would be in the area near the cold water inlet and flue joints, especially higher in the chimney where the flue gas might have cooled enough to condense.

I also suspect that it's not likely to be much of a problem unless you do all of the following:

1) Burn a lot of oak

2) Burn oak with a high moisture content

3) Idle a lot

I suppose if you built a condensing gasifier (like my brother's, with a 120 degree stack temperature) you might have a problem even without idling with wet oak.


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## dogwood (Feb 18, 2010)

I will be burning a lot of oak, unless my wood source can sell me locust. I've yet to buy my manufactured chimney. Do you think getting triple instead of double wall pipe might keep the flue gasses hotter, longer, before they condense? There should hopefully be no idling with 1000 gallons storage. Hopefully the oak splits are small enough, averaging 4'' maybe, that the oak won't still be wet by this coming Fall.

Mike


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## Rory (Feb 18, 2010)

I finally have a reason to be glad that my woodlot is almost completely devoid of oak! :lol:


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## colcarlmiss (Feb 18, 2010)

The phenomenon of corrosion into the gasification boilers, an explaining video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_7BPKexaoI&feature=related

Acidity of different wood species here: http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/publications/cidb/view-document_e.aspx?Document_ID=82

I suppose I can burn sweet gum, it grows like weed in my area, but it is normally not sold for firewood.


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## chuck172 (Feb 18, 2010)

That's a great link on corrosion of gasification boilers colcarlmiss. Thanks. It shows how important less idling is. Very interesting how it points out that the tar (creosote I presume) that is deposited on the inside of the firebox walls, actually protects the walls against corrosion.


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## Birdman (Feb 18, 2010)

I am not real happy to hear about this oak thing. Last year I cut and slit 3 solid cords of oak. I thought it would be great to have wood like oak because it has more BTU's. What do you think is a good mix rate for this wood? When i fill up Tarm... half maple... half oak? Quarter oak.... three quarters maple?


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 18, 2010)

I'll trade ya stright up my aspen for your oak, cord-for-cord :cheese:


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## chuck172 (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm loaded with oak too. Gypsy moth killed trees. "If you got em, smoke em"


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## Birdman (Feb 18, 2010)

Think i will keep the oak. Split it smaller... and use a few pieces upon fill up with maple I have already cut it 19-20 inches long. Most people around here use 16-18 for woodstove.


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## Wallyworld (Feb 19, 2010)

My Father and I burned more than 100 cords of red oak in our Dumont gasifier with no ill effects. It was over 20 yrs old when it got retired


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## colcarlmiss (Feb 19, 2010)

I am the new newbie, but I am very careful in evaluating options and therefore will be studying all the manuals and specifications in detail before I decide what I want. We are going to replace our 10+ year old Hardy Heater. We do not need to talk about this particular OWB, more than it has been very reliable despite continuous oak burning, all stainless, and it has literally produced a couple of tons of smoke to the detriment of the environment and my neighbor south of me.

Now when I stumbled upon Varmebaronen's instruction statement about restricted oak burning I became curious why. I need to tell you that I at the same time as I posted this new thread I sent a mail copy to smokelessheat.com and varmebaronen.se in Sweden as a heads-up to be prepared.

We have seen smokelessheat.com's response in the thread and I am very sorry I missed the warranty statement. I didn't see it on the website and then for me to assume you have no warranty is stupid from my side. It is probably there somewhere and I am only confused. Again I apologize. Now when I have seen it and read your response I suppose oak burning is not regarded to be misuse and will not void the warranty.

From Varmebaronen.se I have no conclusive reply yet, more than they will check with their R&D and come back with an reply. 

My aim is to be as objective as possible in my not so insignificant investment decision.

To my surprise the empty weight of boilers are very different. I suppose if you have some oak burning corrosion more steel is better than less. Garn's case is special, because it includes a large integrated hot water storage volume.

Brand                 Model                    BTU/hr            Lbs

Varmebaronen    Vedolux 30           112,000      639
Varmebaronen    Vedolux 37           143,000      650

HS Tarm             Solo Innova 30     102,000      1,113
HS Tarm             Solo Innova 50     171,000      1,213

Scandtec            Solo Plus 40          140,000      1,180

Orlan                  Ekoline 40            137,000      1,390

Biomass              40                       140,000      1,480

Econoburn           EBW-150             150,000      1,670

Garn                   WHS 1500            350,000      3,550 

I have gathered this information from different websites, but I do guarantee they are accurate. Pls do your own checking. Obviously some of the weight differences is caused by differences in the weight of the ceramics.

I tried to get the table straight and it looks beautiful on the preview, but it did not translate to the post.


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## WoodNotOil (Feb 19, 2010)

colcarlmiss - some of the weight differences could be result of design and mechanical differences.  Some units might count the jacket and all components while other might not.  The size of the fireboxes and overall boiler dimensions vary and will result in different weights.  

Some of the manuf. will tell you the guage of steel used.  However, if you watch the video linked above it explains the tar buildup on the inside and how it protects the firebox from corrosion.  So, unless your unit idles for most of the heating season, the corrosion issue should not be a problem...

I am very confident that my Tarm will last a very LONG time given the track record of the brand and quality of the welding that is used to produce them.  A Swedish made product I would think would use quality material and welding as well.  I know the Econoburn has been described as being very rugged and being all there!

I think that some important factors in narrowing the list would be:
1.  Cost!  
2.  BTU output (make sure it is sized and the system is designed to be convenient for you to operate)
3.  Installer/Retailer (who will you get it from, who is installing it, and who will service it)  If it is a self install, then any brand can be shipped to you...
4.  Storage (do you want a brand that has storage built in (Garn), storage made specifically for it (Varmebaronen), commercial tanks (several choices there), or are  you going to DIY a pressurized (propane tank?) or un-press. (pond in a box?)

I think you would be pleased with any of the brands you listed... they are all quality boilers!


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## leaddog (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm not an engineer so take what I say with a grain of salt. I would check on the gauge of steel in the boiler that you decide on. As you say thicker should be better. I haven't looked at the Varmebaronen so I don't know how they are constructed and that makes a difference on the wt. I think that cold water protection is probably the most important issue with corrosion. if you keep the flue temp up above condensing temp and keep the return temp up I don't see a major problem. If you go with storage you should have a hot burn and not have idleing time. I have heard mention of not using oak before but it's been used here in the US as a #1 choice of wood for ever. I haven't heard of people haveing any problems but that doesn't mean there isn't.
leaddog


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## chuck172 (Feb 19, 2010)

I'd be very concerned of the Varmebaronen's steel thickness. My Tarm's literature states that the inner plate steel is 7mm., just over 1/4". Weighs in at 1160 pds.


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## ewdudley (Feb 19, 2010)

chuck172 said:
			
		

> I'd be very concerned of the Varmebaronen's steel thickness.



I might be concerned too if I knew what it was.  

Since you must already know the thickness of the Varmebaronen's steel, could you please share it with us?


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## heaterman (Feb 19, 2010)

colcarlmiss said:
			
		

> I am the new newbie, but I am very careful in evaluating options and therefore will be studying all the manuals and specifications in detail before I decide what I want. We are going to replace our 10+ year old Hardy Heater. We do not need to talk about this particular OWB, more than it has been very reliable despite continuous oak burning, all stainless, and it has literally produced a couple of tons of smoke to the detriment of the environment and my neighbor south of me.
> 
> Now when I stumbled upon Varmebaronen's instruction statement about restricted oak burning I became curious why. I need to tell you that I at the same time as I posted this new thread I sent a mail copy to smokelessheat.com and varmebaronen.se in Sweden as a heads-up to be prepared.
> 
> ...



WOW! That is a very substantial difference in weight. I would look closely at the type of heat exchanger design as either it, or the gauge of metal has to be significantly different than the others that are more similar in weight. I doubt there would be more than a couple hundred pounds of difference in the refractory.  Having worked with EKO, Econoburn and Tarm I can say that any of them are well made and use a design that is similar and well proven. The Econoburn's materials and construction are "robust" to say the least and if all other things are equal it would probably be my weapon of choice. The company is great to work with. 
The Garn of course is an entirely different type and class of product and one would have to evaluate the cost of an equal amount of storage with any of the downdraft gasifiers to arrive at a good conclusion.  AFA sealed system boilers vs open vessels is concerned, their are valid arguments both ways and it boils down to what you are comfortable with and of course $$.$$ involved..


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## dzook (Feb 19, 2010)

When we made arrangements with Varmebaronen to sell in US, we had similar concerns with the weight and steel issues. Here are some comments from some of our conversations in regards to the steel that may help explain some of the questions. Some of the information that follows is also from conversation during factory training and visits.

Quote 

Boilers are made of plate steel and the thickness is 5mm in the firing chamber, 4mm in the flue gas tubes and 3mm for the “surrounding” plates. The weakest point is the welding, not on the plate steel. Some producers have as much as 8mm thickness but it only makes the product heavier and more expensive. When fired in the right way a boiler never gets plate steel damage.
//Jens

On the Vedolux 30 and 37 we have a high quality steel below the ceramic and the temperature is approx. 1000 degrees C, the same as in your boilers, at the ceramic. Ceramic pieces is wearing parts but the steel part normally lasts a boiler life time. (20 years) 
A layer of ash will build up after a couple of firing cycles and instead of removing it we recommend to leave a few centimeters as an insulation/protection for the ceramic to extend the life time.

On the Combimax 30 UB, Vedolux CU, Vedolux 40 UB and 50 UB we have ceramic also in the combustion tunnel below the "rost". It is the same on Biomax.

//Jens

end quote

Varmebaronen is very clear that their boilers need storage and are required, return water protection in the form of a loading valve etc., and boilers must be fired with seasoned wood. They go into length even how to prepare the wood in the manuals and also have a section in their promotional video explaining moisture content in wood. They are concerned to have an educated customer. If the boilers are fired that way a normal boiler "lifetime" can be expected. If that criteria doesn't happen fit a potential customer's usage plan then this brand would not be for them. Their largest product offering in most cases will service  a 3500 - 4000 sq ft house and smaller or under 1.2 million btu per day unless you want to be a slave to the boiler and fill it every 6 hours.  

They have done tests on boiler failures and in their experience found it was not the thickness of the steel that caused problems or where failures happened, but the weakest point in their findings were related to the welds. They take the utmost pride in their welds and quality of their product and have had little problems. 

One of the weight differences in the 30 and 37  models and some of the other brands is the amount of ceramics. each of the VArm models has a ceramic grate about 4" thick between the upper and lower chamber, otherwise there is no other ceramic. The flames pass down through the ceramic and through a combustion tunnel made of a special steel made for high temps as quoted by Jens previously. The hi temp steel part has the flames passing through it before doubling back and up the boiler tubes. Soon after lighting a fire ash and coals fall down on this area and create a protection and is part of the way it is designed to be used. The manual says "Rake out the ash from the combustion tunnel, but leave a protective layer of a couple of centimeters."

The ceramic grate and steel combustion tunnel may have to be replaced and should be expected to need to be replaced sometime during the life of the boiler and are consumable parts. From their experience many grates last 10 years plus. The grate and tunnel parts are around $300 depending on model,  and may take and hour to replace. It is a very easy process should it be necessary to change, and was made to be so, based on it being considered a consumable part. 

The natural draft gasifiers 40 and 50 UB  are heavier and have the ceramic grate and ceramic combustion tunnel and this  is to have more ceramic mass for the continued natural draft because we are not relying on a fan to move the air.


Based on our discussions using the steel thickness and ceramic design they currently have in place gave them the best overall customer and installer experience. Many installers preferred their boilers based on the fact they were lighter and easier to install. 

This brand is not for everyone.   There are boilers that are thicker, heavier and made like tanks that may never need to have anything done to the ceramics during the lifetime, but if you find it necessary to replace or repair some of those ceramics it could be a much harder process. Varmebaronen went the route in their design to make them as light as possible, but building to a high standard and also making some of the parts around the high temperatures to be consumable and easily replaced if necessary.


The boilers go through two pressure tests during construction. the inner chamber is fabricated, simulated doors are clamped over the door and flue openings and the inner parts and boiler tubes are pressure tested immersed in a water bath, any leaks if found, are able to be patched. The outer shell is then installed and pressure tested again for leaks, this time testing the completed boiler. Many companies fabricate and do one pressure test, this if a leak is found on the inner area a patch is also required in the outer  shell to reach the problem.


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## heaterman (Feb 20, 2010)

I will say this. The Swedes know their metallurgy and how heat interacts with it. I started working in the family hardware store in 1974 and soon found there wasn't enough work to keep me busy. Dad said it was OK if i started a chainsaw department and after talking to some professional loggers and doing some research on my own, settled on Husqvarna. The initial order was 4 chainsaws.  Word soon spread about them and the loggers started coming in asking for " one of them damn orange saws".  Stihl, Jonsered, Homelite and McCulloch were the tools of choice at the time but the Huskys blew them all away in the power to weight category. Still do in the pro grade units. My brother who is in charge of that department told me they sold over 500 saws last year. Most of their volume is in the pro saw end of things and believe me those units get a work out. They flat out hold up. Maintenance wise some feel the Huskys take a little more work but usually it's the guys who abuse the product that are having the problems. If used and maintained as intended they run like the wind. I would guess the boilers in question here are no different as making things light and efficient is how the Swedes think. I'll never forget an afternoon I spent with their head engineer at the time, Ulf Naslund, who did his best to "educate" me in the Swedish way of engineering. Light, efficient, powerful was his mantra and if it demanded a little more maintenance that was just the price one paid for having the best chainsaw in the world.


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## brad068 (Feb 20, 2010)

heaterman said:
			
		

> I will say this. The Swedes know their metallurgy and how heat interacts with it. I started working in the family hardware store in 1974 and soon found there wasn't enough work to keep me busy. Dad said it was OK if i started a chainsaw department and after talking to some professional loggers and doing some research on my own, settled on Husqvarna. The initial order was 4 chainsaws.  Word soon spread about them and the loggers started coming in asking for " one of them damn orange saws".  Stihl, Jonsered, Homelite and McCulloch were the tools of choice at the time but the Huskys blew them all away in the power to weight category. Still do in the pro grade units. My brother who is in charge of that department told me they sold over 500 saws last year. Most of their volume is in the pro saw end of things and believe me those units get a work out. They flat out hold up. Maintenance wise some feel the Huskys take a little more work but usually it's the guys who abuse the product that are having the problems. If used and maintained as intended they run like the wind. I would guess the boilers in question here are no different as making things light and efficient is how the Swedes think. I'll never forget an afternoon I spent with their head engineer at the time, Ulf Naslund, who did his best to "educate" me in the Swedish way of engineering. Light, efficient, powerful was his mantra and if it demanded a little more maintenance that was just the price one paid for having the best chainsaw in the world.



 Agreed.  I work on their submersible mixers, Flygt.  The are the standard in the WW field.  I was in the market for a saw last year and almost bought a husky but stuck to my roots and bought a Dolmar.  Its almost the same color!


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## Gooserider (Feb 20, 2010)

One question Dean - I know that the Varm boilers need to be used with storage, but what is their policy about the type of storage?  Looking at the website, I'd say the factory tanks are pretty, but pricey, and also tend to be on the small side for a lot of our usual American size installations...  (I do notice that you have several other options on your site)

Do you insist on a customer getting a boiler with the factory tanks, or are you willing to sell just a boiler and let the customer arrange their own storage (possibly on the condition that the storage setup be approved in order to get the warranty honored)?

Gooserider


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## dzook (Feb 20, 2010)

> One question Dean - I know that the Varm boilers need to be used with storage, but what is their policy about the type of storage?



Other tanks can be used as long as the design connecting the boiler to the tank is approved. If the models with suction fans are used Vedolux 30 or 37, its best to use the loading valve (termovar loading valve) designed to charge the tank. There are electrical connection plugs for the loading valve on the back of the boiler that make it more of a turn-key system.

With the natural draft gasifier models Vedolux 30CU ,40 and 50 other circulators could be used as long as similar flow rates are achieved and the return temperatures are in the approved range. I am personally using a propane tank storage with the one I set up for myself because I had been using an eko 60 and wasnt going to change tanks. I could have used the termovar loading valve but i wanted to also test other circulation methods. The system uses a taco 007 and and i-series taco 2 way modulating valve on the bypass. i'm using a NFCS so i can adjust flow very accurately.  Before using NFCS I had adjusted the flow with a Nimbus motor control to a fixed speed but just fast enough to keep the boiler from overheating. With cost of the modulating valve, the circulator, and the flue stack switch the turn-key loading valve would have been a good deal but I already had the other parts.



> also tend to be on the small side for a lot of our usual American size installations



The Aqualux tanks in their system are made in approx 200g modules so installation can be achieved without calling superman. They are just connected together to make whatever total volume is needed as shown in the tank install manual. Most homes need 2-3 tank modules. The most expensive tank in their system has an indirect domestic tank submerged in the 200g tank and also comes with a 4.5 KW electric backup immersion heater, and also has a 4 way mixing valve that is designed to be a takeoff to the heating load. The other tank is just a plain insulated tank. The tanks are expensive but sometimes getting a propane tank into position some places in impossible. Also if another tank is used thought must be given so thermal circulation is possible or a battery backup to assure flow in event of power outage.

With that being said using their components boiler,tank,loading valve, just works "out of the box" . The tank charges properly, return temperature is protected, and with power outs the loading valve allows circulation to tank, so a bit more planning is needed when substituting a particular component. Substitutions are accepted with approved plans. We are most concerned with the boiler to tank design, not so much what you do with the water from from the storage tank.


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## Hansson (May 28, 2010)

Burning Chunk can you tell me what is the efficieny on the vedolux boilers?

They refuse to show the testing pappers here in sweden?


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## dzook (Jun 1, 2010)

Hansson,

Boiler Efficiency numbers as supplied to us for the efficiency certificate.

suction fan models-Vedolux 30 and 37 86%
natural draft-Vedolux 40, 50 and CU 78%
viking bio Pellet burner- 85%

http://smokelessheat.com/Media/FurnaceDocuments/VarmCertificate.pdf


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## Hansson (Jun 1, 2010)

Dean Zook said:
			
		

> Hansson,
> 
> Boiler Efficiency numbers as supplied to us for the efficiency certificate.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much

You are NR 1


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## webbie (Jun 1, 2010)

FYI, I think the Tarm OT models (from way back) were 3 or 4mm, and they lasted just about forever. Many are still around, although they were last sold in about 1982.

Thickness of steel is much less of an issue than both the quality of the steel and engineering.


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## Gooserider (Jun 3, 2010)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> FYI, I think the Tarm OT models (from way back) were 3 or 4mm, and they lasted just about forever. Many are still around, although they were last sold in about 1982.
> 
> Thickness of steel is much less of an issue than both the quality of the steel and engineering.



Agreed, but I think I would also include proper installation and operation, including things like good low temperature return protection, care in loading, proper maintaining and cleaning, use of dry wood and all the rest of the stuff that we keep telling folks about as well.

Certainly lack of those things can rapidly destroy a boiler that we agree is high quality, OTOH, I would expect that getting them right would probably get a reasonably long life out of the hypothetical badly engineered boiler made from cheap steel (I say hypothetical, because I don't consider that description to apply to any of the current "available in the US" model boilers)

Gooserider


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## flameretardant (Aug 17, 2010)

How do you sell something to an American? Make it B I G. Huge, bigger than all the rest. It don't matter if it works better or even makes sense, just make it friggen huge. As stated, excessively thick steel offers no real longevity benefits and wastes more heat up the flue. Speaking of milimeters, some guys just need to compensate for their own physical "short"comings somehow!


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## chuck172 (Aug 17, 2010)

The best way to sell something to an American is to make it in America!


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## kabbott (Aug 29, 2010)

When I first compared the weight of the various boilers I was concerned about the light weight of the Varmebaronen....After a trip to Ag progress days in PA 
and looking at deans demo setup I decided to go to Smokeless Heat and have a closer look.... I came home less a deposit for the Varmebaronen.

I would say that much of the weight difference is the ceramics ( or lack of). The fit/ finish of the Eko/Biomass is not comparable to the Vedolux boilers. I had
pretty much decided on a Biomass 40 until I looked at the Vedolux. While the biomass is built like tank there is a lot of ceramic/refractory to replace if it cracks 
or wears out. Very little to go wrong with the Vedolux.
The best feature is the ease of cleaning, so simple I wonder why more are not built this way. Boiler went from cold start to gassing with no visible smoke in under 
5 minutes(did not time it but it was QUICK)

Controls are VERY simple, this may be a downside for some but I have the NFCS for the rest of the system so this is a plus for me.
The big question for me is will the pressure vessel hold up? only time will tell... I hate spending this much money on a "new" design (new to U.S.) But
I do like this boiler.

If your looking at boilers this one deserves a look IMO.
As far as burning oak..... It will learn to love it. :coolgrin:

Kris


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