# Sailboat floats way above water (americas cup)



## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

Pretty cool photo!


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## begreen (Sep 17, 2013)

That's almost not floating. More like flying!


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## PapaDave (Sep 17, 2013)

What the.....?


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## fossil (Sep 17, 2013)

Yeah, it's very cool.  If Larry Ellison's fascinated by spending millions on developing a really fast sailboat, fine.  It's his money.  But to set those rules for the Americas Cup is rather arrogant and exclusionary, IMO.  How many teams can raise $80M - $100M to develop & enter a boat?  Few.  I think he really hosed it up,and I'm rooting for him to lose so someone else (with less hubris, I hope) can write the specs for the next competition.


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## DuelburnJake (Sep 17, 2013)

Hydrofoils are awesome! Must be an awesome rush racing it!


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## Doug MacIVER (Sep 17, 2013)

I long for the beauty of a twelve meter. becalmed off Newport. this is todays America's cup? what a difference.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 17, 2013)

It is amazing indeed. A long way past the Bluenose.

However, checkout what can happen when you rise that high out of the water:


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

Doug MacIVER said:


> I long for the beauty of a twelve meter. becalmed off Newport. this is todays America's cup? what a difference.



Here I am at the wheel, at the grinder - and a pic of 'COURAGEOUS" to keep you happy!


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

fossil said:


> Yeah, it's very cool.  If Larry Ellison's fascinated by spending millions on developing a really fast sailboat, fine.  It's his money.  But to set those rules for the Americas Cup is rather arrogant and exclusionary, IMO.  How many teams can raise $80M - $100M to develop & enter a boat?  Few.  I think he really hosed it up,and I'm rooting for him to lose so someone else (with less hubris, I hope) can write the specs for the next competition.



Yeah, the whole AC thing is of little interest because of his hubris.....

But when it comes to foils, these are for the little guy too! I saw one of these sailing around my boat the other day. I think this might be a good new hobby for you!


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## Doug MacIVER (Sep 17, 2013)

webbie said:


> Here I am at the wheel, at the grinder - and a pic of 'COURAGEOUS" to keep you happy!
> 
> View attachment 111942
> View attachment 111943
> View attachment 111944


 one word
"PURE" HAVE A DAY


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

I expect some renumeration for wearing that woodstock shirt!


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## fossil (Sep 17, 2013)

Oh, I'm down with hydrofoils.  Back in about 1978 I hitched a ride across Puget Sound & back on USS Pegasus (PHM 1).

Here's an identical ship of the class:


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

Looks a bit heavy for my mailsail to lift up...


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## fossil (Sep 17, 2013)

webbie said:


> Looks a bit heavy for my mailsail to lift up...



  GE LM2500 gas turbine engine driving a humongous water jet.  ~18,000 hp.


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## hobbyheater (Sep 17, 2013)

fossil said:


> Yeah, it's very cool.  If Larry Ellison's fascinated by spending millions on developing a really fast sailboat, fine.  It's his money.  But to set those rules for the Americas Cup is rather arrogant and exclusionary, IMO.  How many teams can raise $80M - $100M to develop & enter a boat?  Few.  I think he really hosed it up,and I'm rooting for him to lose so someone else (with less hubris, I hope) can write the specs for the next competition.



Back in time, chariots were the leading sport in racing and for some it is still!
Today formula one stock cars have taken over the lead in interest  and in a lot of cases, money rules.
These boys are just taking it to the next level!
As a sailor I love to see both!
Great pictures!


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## fossil (Sep 17, 2013)

I like to see the boat pushing the limits...I'd just like to see an Americas Cup where more teams had an opportunity to enter the competition.  I, too, am a sailor.


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

Mine almost flies....it starts feeling like it! This is from the other day. 15+ knots in a 24" sailboat is fun!


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## Doug MacIVER (Sep 17, 2013)

webbie said:


> Mine almost flies....it starts feeling like it! This is from the other day. 15+ knots in a 24" sailboat is fun!


remember with rail just off the water and it felt like, what 60?


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## fossil (Sep 17, 2013)

When the opposite gunwale's playing peek-a-boo with the water I know I'm sailing.


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## Augie (Sep 17, 2013)

Webbie, you have a melges? I sail in the Detroit fleet. And yes Bora kicks my ass regularly...


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## webbie (Sep 17, 2013)

Augie said:


> Webbie, you have a melges? I sail in the Detroit fleet. And yes Bora kicks my ass regularly...


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## webbie (Sep 18, 2013)

Not a gunwale, but I almost buried a float today....


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## hobbyheater (Sep 18, 2013)

About 12 years ago, there was a 30' Corsair in the Van Isle 360 that got the nick name Flip, Flop And Fly.  It entered 3 races  but finished all them floating upside down!
None the less I would have loved to crew on Her!


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## webbie (Sep 18, 2013)

hobbyheater said:


> About 12 years ago there was a 30' Corsair in the Van Isle 360 , that got the nick name Flip Flop And Fly , it entered 3 races  but finished all them floating upside down!



Yeah, they are not blue water boats! When you hit the 10+ foot swells and waves, you want a couple tons of lead hanging 6 feet below the boat!

Actually, many tris and cats have crossed the oceans, but not me!


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## DevilsBrew (Sep 22, 2013)

webbie said:


> Pretty cool photo!


 
Is that a giant Cat?


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## webbie (Sep 22, 2013)

Trimarans.
They raced Cats in the runoffs (like here in Newport) before the SF one, but these are tris with foils.

I think they hit about 35+ MPH, which is pretty quick for a sailboat, especially since they do it in winds much less than that.


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## rowerwet (Sep 22, 2013)

while the sailing is a blast on the tri's it is a bust for the viewers on shore. the boats don't look that fast, and very few people today know much about sailing anyway. a few min. of watching boats way out on the bay and most people are bored. they need onboard cameras kind of like what nascar does. and a fleet of boats jockeying for position to add some interest.
most of my sailing was done on Precision 16's not big or that fast, but plenty of hiking out till you could see the center board, and lots of close action.


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## webbie (Sep 22, 2013)

Yeah, I don't watch the stuff - never did. But that's true of most sports (for me). I always liked doing them - never liked watching them. 

Here's some of the tech they have used to make it exciting:
http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/08/ff_americascup_ellison/all/


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## fossil (Sep 22, 2013)

Yeah, well, if there were actually more than 2 or 3 boats in the competition it would be (perhaps) more interesting.  Ellison really blew Americas Cup out of the water.  He should have just developed a video game or something, and let a bunch of nations' teams of sailors race "regular old" boats.


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## Augie (Sep 23, 2013)

Amazingly if you have been watching this has been  the Best AC's I have witnessed YMMV. The Americas Cup is a Deed Of Gift Match Race at its heart. The Challenger series doesn't even really have to happen, and hasent usually. One Defender vs One Challenger. The rules are up to the Defender to make as long as they stay within the original Deed of Gift for the Cup.

(deed of gift----when the cup was originally given to the race there were a set of basic rules to govern the competition, rules on how to challenge what a defender has to accept as a challenge and some basic rules, but there is a lot of room in thoes rules for innovation)


I am looking fwd to another AC with the winged cats!!




webbie said:


> I think they hit about 35+ MPH, which is pretty quick for a sailboat, especially since they do it in winds much less than that.


A little faster...  72ft boats weighing 10 tonns doing 45kts or 51.78MPH!
Yesterday the winds were about 12kts and the boats were peaking at 32kts in the gusts. almost 3x wind speed

Mind you this means when they cross tacks, at those speeds, they are closing on each other at 100+MPH


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## webbie (Sep 23, 2013)

Here are some pics of the little cats in Newport last summer. One of them shows the wing (sail) laid sideways.


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## DevilsBrew (Sep 23, 2013)

I love watching sailboats and tall ships.  One of the best days of my life took place during a tall ship festival in Boston harbor.  I can't relate to a huge $100 million whatever it is.


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## webbie (Sep 23, 2013)

Well, here are a couple off Newport for ya! One of them (not pictured) went down with Hurricane Sandy last year, I think....


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## begreen (Sep 25, 2013)

Looks like team Oracle won the race. Fascinating to see these boats duke it out. Both teams are very good.


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## fossil (Sep 25, 2013)

Well, maybe Ellison can come up with requirements for next time that he's the only person on Earth who can afford/is willing to meet.


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## Augie (Sep 26, 2013)

My guess is with the way the Finals went this go around there will be a billionaire or two lining up just chomping at the bit to prove he can do this better than Good Ole' Larry. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed this edition of the cup. I am waiting to see who is the COR for the AC35 and what the rule is.


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## Hills Hoard (Sep 26, 2013)

say what?!?!?...thats wierd as...yachts have changed a lot since i last took notice!....how fast do they go?!?


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## webbie (Sep 26, 2013)

Augie said above:
A little faster... *72ft boats weighing 10 tonns doing 45kts or 51.78MPH*!
Yesterday the winds were about 12kts and the boats were peaking at 32kts in the gusts. almost 3x wind speed

Mind you this means when they cross tacks, at those speeds, they are closing on each other at 100+MPH


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## begreen (Sep 27, 2013)

Is there a video of the last race? I'd love to see it. When you consider the comeback that the Oracle team accomplished it is nothing short of amazing. They really worked as a team from the grinders to the designers.


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## billb3 (Sep 27, 2013)

begreen said:


> That's almost not floating. More like flying!




It's NOT floating, it most certainly is flying on foils especially when both hulls are out of the water reaching speeds of 75km/h
and an (2013) America Cup AC72 is a  cat not a tri.
The World Series AC45 are also cats.


Billionaires' toys.
----------------------
The San Fran Yacht Club won the 2010 race with a tri 

I could probably live several lifetimes on just the interest that these guys have spent on lawyers  fighting over boat challenges and rules breaking


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## Flatbedford (Sep 27, 2013)

fossil said:


> Yeah, it's very cool.  If Larry Ellison's fascinated by spending millions on developing a really fast sailboat, fine.  It's his money.  But to set those rules for the Americas Cup is rather arrogant and exclusionary, IMO.  How many teams can raise $80M - $100M to develop & enter a boat?  Few.  I think he really hosed it up,and I'm rooting for him to lose so someone else (with less hubris, I hope) can write the specs for the next competition.



Yachting has never been a poor man's sport. Remember the J class of the 1930s? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-class_yacht

130'+, over 7000 sq.ft. of sail and 166 tons displacement.


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## NW Walker (Sep 27, 2013)

begreen said:


> Is there a video of the last race? I'd love to see it. When you consider the comeback that the Oracle team accomplished it is nothing short of amazing. They really worked as a team from the grinders to the designers.



You can catch the replay of all the races on Youtube, America's Cup channel.  Here's the final race....



Somewhere in this thread someone was asking about where these were built.  I'm not sure about ENZ, but most of Oracle's composite work was done in Sedro Wooley at Janicki.  The molding and resin infusion process alone are very cool technology, not to mention the design and engineering of the parts themselves.  

What a series, I thought it was a fantastic America's Cup and great sailing.


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## webbie (Sep 27, 2013)

I think the Vanderbilts and friends really pumped up the whole deal , which should give some indication....
I drive by the NY Yacht Club quite a bit - it's a prime piece of real estate, and certainly the place you'd want to drink if you are looking for investors for your new company...

http://www.12metercharters.com/newportsailing.asp

"For over fifty years of the 20th century, the most coveted sailing race in the world was held in Newport - the America's Cup. Since the first America's Cup defense in 1870, the New York Yacht Club held the America's Cup races in New York. However, in the 1930's, after an increased interest in the "City-by-the-Sea's" sailing, the New York Yacht Club brought the America's Cup sailing races to a new venue - Newport, Rhode Island. During the 1930's the spectacular J-Boats sail raced for the America's Cup. At over 100 feet long and with a crew of over 20, men the building and sailing of these yachts was a very expensive endeavor. Some of Newport's most wealthy summertime residents were very active in America's Cup sailing including Harold Vanderbilt who funded campaigns and sailed in the 1930, 1934, and 1937 America's Cup in Newport, Rhode Island. "


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## stoveguy2esw (Sep 27, 2013)

i have to say, though im not a sailor i find the yacht races strangely fascinating though i cant really sit and watch them constantly. i get the reason people do it though, coaxing speed out of the wind has to be a great thrill to one who is doing it.

i find my enjoyment in the water inland , floating rivers here in Va. slowly is good for me, as im usually not looking forward to taking the canoe out of the water and going home


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## Flatbedford (Sep 27, 2013)

I grew up sailing with my father. I think the subtleties of sailing are little out of the grasp of most 9 year olds, but I do have some fond memories. My father is proud to say that he is always driving his sailboat as fast as it will go.


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## rideau (Sep 28, 2013)

Sailed a Bulls-Eye and an S boat...now those were fun and, especially the S, could get very exciting.  Sliding backstays can get challenging in late autumn winds.


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks for the link NW Walker. That was great to watch.


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## Flatbedford (Sep 28, 2013)

NW Walker said:


> You can catch the replay of all the races on Youtube, America's Cup channel.  Here's the final race....
> 
> .




Wow! I had some time to watch. Who would ever imagine sailboats at 40 kts? You don't even fully realize the speed until the chase boats come into the frame and you see how fast _they_ are going.


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## begreen (Sep 28, 2013)

I thought Oracle was going to flip coming out of the gate. That was quite a nose burying. They recovered from that one well.


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