# Carbon Monoxide det. Keeps going off!!!



## Kathryn8518 (Jan 18, 2015)

Our stove has been running great since we got it up and going again,now for some reason our carbon monoxide detectors keep going off. We have one in the basement that I have moved to at least the ten foot away mark but it continues to go off. Last week in the middle of the night the one upstairs started going off. The stove is cleaned almost daily so it's not from being dirty. We have taken the pipes off and cleaned them out as well. The only difference I have noticed is it does seem to be burning HOT however it has been warmer out the last couple days so that could be the issue as well. We have different pellets but I don't remember if we got them at the same time or not....

We haven't had any head aches , no symptoms that we have noticed... UGH With all the hassle we have had with this thing over the last couple months it had BETTER cut our bill in half for heat this year...

Any suggestions?


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## TimfromMA (Jan 18, 2015)

Whatever you do DO NOT operate the stove until you get this problem resloved. CO is nothing to mess around with.


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 18, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> Whatever you do DO NOT operate the stove until you get this problem resloved. CO is nothing to mess around with.


I just Went down and shut if off again. The first couple times I shut it down and figured maybe it was because it was dirty, so I cleaned it out and everything seems to run fine, but today it's going off again and I know it's clean.


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## Peterfield (Jan 18, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> I just Went down and shut if off again. The first couple times I shut it down and figured maybe it was because it was dirty, so I cleaned it out and everything seems to run fine, but today it's going off again and I know it's clean.



This is where Darwinism can rear it's ugly head.  You can either call your local fire department and they will come out and check the air and determine whether your detector is bad or your stove is leaking or we can read about you in the paper soon.


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 18, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> This is where Darwinism can rear it's ugly head.  You can either call your local fire department and they will come out and check the air and determine whether your detector is bad or your stove is leaking or we can read about you in the paper soon.



I am smart enough to shut my stove down and ventilate my house. I haven't turned the stove back on and the detectors haven't gone back off. So pretty certain it's coming from the stove and our detectors are working properly.


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## Peterfield (Jan 18, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> I am smart enough to shut my stove down and ventilate my house. I haven't turned the stove back on and the detectors haven't gone back off. So pretty certain it's coming from the stove and our detectors are working properly.



Very glad to hear that!!  Most fire departments will send someone out with a high-end detector to trace down the source of the leak.  Let us know how this turns out.


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## jackman (Jan 18, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> I just Went down and shut if off again. The first couple times I shut it down and figured maybe it was because it was dirty, so I cleaned it out and everything seems to run fine, but today it's going off again and I know it's clean.


Perhaps it's a source other than the pellet stove. Do you have other combustion devices, e.g., water heater, stove, or oven with pilot lights?

It may also be bad detectors. The detectors do have an expiration date typically 7 to 10 years. I've had them go bad.

Certainly do not ignore the problem.


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## TimfromMA (Jan 18, 2015)

There is a leak somewhere. Exhaust gasses are escaping into the house. Check your exhaust vent and possibly your heat exchanger.


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## fire245 (Jan 18, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> Very glad to hear that!!  Most fire departments will send someone out with a high-end detector to trace down the source of the leak.  Let us know how this turns out.


We send out a fire line officer with a co/gas meter. I would STRONGLY recommend a call to your local FD


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 18, 2015)

jackman said:


> Perhaps it's a source other than the pellet stove. Do you have other combustion devices, e.g., water heater, stove, or oven with pilot lights?
> 
> It may also be bad detectors. The detectors do have an expiration date typically 7 to 10 years. I've had them go bad.
> 
> Certainly do not ignore the problem.



Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again. 
Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned this morning and ran fine allay, same as yesterday .. Seems to take a while for it to set off the alarm .


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## Peterfield (Jan 18, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again.
> Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned this morning and ran fine allay, same as yesterday .. Seems to take a while for it to set off the alarm .



I don't think cleanliness is the issue, it's a gasket or seal or seam that has failed and needs to be addressed.  Do you have any other fuel burning device down there like an oil burner or natural gas furnace, etc?


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## Bioburner (Jan 18, 2015)

Does the stove have an OAK installed? What make and model? I've seen a pellet stove draw enough that propane heaters and such leak back into structures. Basement installs can be really bad.


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## boo boo (Jan 18, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again.
> Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned this morning and ran fine allay, same as yesterday .. Seems to take a while for it to set off the alarm .


I read three times above to call your fire department have you done this yet please do so.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 18, 2015)

*Call your fire department. *


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 18, 2015)

It could also be something as simple as your batteries are dying!  Yes, there ARE batteries in even the ones that plug into the outlet (at least mine does).  Mine went after 3 years.  Replaced the battery and it's good to go.


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## Ranger72 (Jan 18, 2015)

Are all seems in exhaust pipe RTVed? Any cracks in heat exchanger. (as stated above).  Is your basement 'tight' with a furnace and/ or hot water heater down there?  Has anyone removed the combustion blower recently?


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## ken372 (Jan 19, 2015)

Call the fire co. And get out of the house


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## 709GADE (Jan 19, 2015)

CO detectors alarm for a reason, the reason you bought it...get out of the house and have a professional check it out. Fire Department worthy call for sure.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> It could also be something as simple as your batteries are dying!  Yes, there ARE batteries in even the ones that plug into the outlet (at least mine does).  Mine went after 3 years.  Replaced the battery and it's good to go.



Yes that is very true, however if you can't tell the battery low signal from the alarm, err on the side of staying alive, call the fire department and get into fresh outside air.

The fire department would rather educate the owner in what is what, than transport someone to the hospital or even worse call the coroner.


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## Jason845845 (Jan 19, 2015)

For god's sake, next time it goes off, DO NOT GO INTO THE CONFINED SPACE OF YOUR BASEMENT AND DIE.  Go outside and call 911.


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## CenterTree (Jan 19, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> Very glad to hear that!!  Most* fire departments will send someone out* with a high-end detector to trace down the source of the leak.  Let us know how this turns out.





fire245 said:


> We send out a fire line officer with a co/gas meter. I would STRONGLY recommend a call to your local FD



I've always been curious about that.   Do FDs charge a fee for doing that service?


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## Old Spartan (Jan 19, 2015)

For 100 bucks one can acquire their very own basic meter to measure Carbon Monoxide levels.

Those who have some perceived "reason" to avoid calling the Fire Marshall should at the very least equip themselves with one.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2015)

CenterTree said:


> I've always been curious about that.   Do FDs charge a fee for doing that service?



It is an included service for which I pay for as part of my taxes.  

Call and ask yours, likely it is a no charge service that they are more than willing to do as it sure beats all alternatives.


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

Some do some don't. When I was on we did not charge for any emergency calls. Where I moved they charged when my house caught fire. Should have saved the video. Could have won 100k on AFV.


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## Jason845845 (Jan 19, 2015)

Our gas company responds to co calls.


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## Metal (Jan 19, 2015)

Do you have an OAK.  If you don't these stoves pull a HUGE amount of air out of the house and if your house is well sealed the stove might be putting your house in a negative pressure condition causing your water heater or furnace to not vent properly (especially if it is vented with B-Vent).


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## Papelletman (Jan 19, 2015)

Who installed the stove? How long has it been up and running?


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## Ashful (Jan 19, 2015)

Lots of recommendations to check seals, gaskets, etc.  Now, I don't run a pellet stove, so I may just not understand the problem, however how can a bad gasket cause a CO leak?  Isn't a properly installed pellet stove under constant negative pressure, like a wood stove?  Chimney creates draft, which creates draw.  Any leak will cause room air to get sucked into stove, and cause stove to overfire, not allow CO to leak out.  If you have CO leaking out, you have a draft problem, not just a gasket problem.

As I see it, either something is preventing proper draw of the chimney (poorly configured chimney cap, wind, kink in the liner, etc.), or draw of pellet stove is causing some other appliance to back-draft, or some other appliance is causing stove to back-draft.  Since it seems to be present in the stove room, I would see if the same problem occurs when I shut down all other drafting appliances (clothes dryer, kitchen range hood, water heater, furnace, etc.).  Are you running any of these appliances when the problem occurs?  Does the draft on your stove seem particularly weak?

Again, FD or gas co can bring in a better CO detector, which may help you identify the source of the problem much more quickly.


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## heat seeker (Jan 19, 2015)

A pellet stove's combustion area is under negative pressure, up to the exhaust blower. Thereafter, the gasses are under slight positive pressure, including the venting.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2015)

Joful said:


> Lots of recommendations to check seals, gaskets, etc.  Now, I don't run a pellet stove, so I may just not understand the problem, however how can a bad gasket cause a CO leak?  Isn't a properly installed pellet stove under constant negative pressure, like a wood stove?  Chimney creates draft, which creates draw.  Any leak will cause room air to get sucked into stove, and cause stove to overfire, not allow CO to leak out.  If you have CO leaking out, you have a draft problem, not just a gasket problem.
> 
> As I see it, either something is preventing proper draw of the chimney (poorly configured chimney cap, wind, kink in the liner, etc.), or draw of pellet stove is causing some other appliance to back-draft, or some other appliance is causing stove to back-draft.  Since it seems to be present in the stove room, I would see if the same problem occurs when I shut down all other drafting appliances (clothes dryer, kitchen range hood, water heater, furnace, etc.).  Are you running any of these appliances when the problem occurs?  Does the draft on your stove seem particularly weak?
> 
> Again, FD or gas co can bring in a better CO detector, which may help you identify the source of the problem much more quickly.



There are gaskets at the combustion blower where the blower motor mounts against the blower cavity, the area between the blower cavity and the stoves exhaust system, then again there are some stoves that have a quick disconnect system that also uses a gasket.  Most vent system have gaskets of one kind or another.  All of these areas should be considered to be under positive pressure for the purposes of tracking down combustion byproduct leaks.

It is even possible that the room the stove is in to be a source of a pressure difference that can cuse combustion byproducts to exit the stove where they shouldn't.  Basements are frequently a case of said conditions.


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## kelly (Jan 19, 2015)

heat seeker said:


> A pellet stove's combustion area is under negative pressure, up to the exhaust blower. Thereafter, the gasses are under slight positive pressure, including the venting.


Good advice to drop by and speak with a crew member or Captain and explain what is taking place with your CO detector , generally up to 9PPM are acceptable in the residence over an extended period and workplace 25 PPm over a time of a shift- 8-10 hours , flew like symptoms and headaches are an indication of over-exposure and as stated it can become serious . I suggest when you make contact the department in your nearby area or through 911 explain the circumstances of which the alarm was and where both going off or just the one . Detectors for CO generally should be tossed and replaced at 5 years and I mark them with permanent marker to know when in service . If you made contact with the department and asked about billing to ensure you are comfortable and if need be have the heads up so you can start the stove and possibly find the cause - only when arrangement has been made !    Just so you know CO is a odourless with a specific gravity that is slightly lighter than air and will rise . Your body has an affinity to CO - meaning it will bind quicker with your blood- hemoglobin 250 times faster than oxygen and you will slowly render you unable to make rational decisions and will easily take a family . Ensure you make contact in person to discuss with a crew - thank them for all they do and deal with the problem as a team and until that is accomplished don't fire the appliance


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

WHAT STOVE MAKE? There is positive pressure stoves out there. Bigger pain to vent and even more so if in a basement install.


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## Peterfield (Jan 19, 2015)

Odd there are no details like stove type, installation info.  The silence is deafening.  Code issue, self-install?   Hope OP gets back to the board to let everyone know what happened.  Info might be helpful to others that use the same model of stove.


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 19, 2015)

jackman said:


> Perhaps it's a source other than the pellet stove. Do you have other combustion devices, e.g., water heater, stove, or oven with pilot lights?
> 
> It may also be bad detectors. The detectors do have an expiration date typically 7 to 10 years. I've had them go bad.
> 
> Certainly do not ignore the problem.



Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again.
Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned to


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 19, 2015)

Okay, thanks for the replies I think we will figure it out .


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

Self installs are terrible for shortcuts. Venting into a existing chimney that is still servicing other appliances. No liner and now that warmer weather is there, the chimney has lower draft. The list could go on for a page  or more on just venting mistakes let alone stove issues.


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## TimfromMA (Jan 19, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again.
> Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned to



Somehow, exhaust gases are escaping into your living space. Any number of things can cause that.

Hole in your heat exchanger

Vent pipe sections not sealed properly

Combustion blower gasket bad or not seated

Door gasket not sealing properly

etc etc


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> Anything else that would go off would be upstairs. The stove is the only thing down stairs that sets it off. Our detectors are new... Only 2 months old... When the detector downstairs goes off and I bring it upstairs it stops, I take it back down to the stove area and within 5 min it starts going off again.
> Are there things or reasons on the stove itself that causes carbon monoxide leaks? Short of cleaning everything we haven't tried anything else. It was cleaned to



The house is a system, one part is connected to the other parts.  That basement first floor, upstairs demarcation line is a figment of the imagination.  If your place is like most there are all kinds of leaks that allow gases to pass.

Don't play games get the people with the equipment that can pinpoint the source.  I know of cases where the source was outside of the building.  A lot of sick people at that game.


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 19, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> Odd there are no details like stove type, installation info.  The silence is deafening.  Code issue, self-install?   Hope OP gets back to the board to let everyone know what happened.  Info might be helpful to others that use the same model of stove.


Bed time and3 children and working this morning. For some reason all these messages haven't come to my phone. The stove is a king 5502 I believe. I would have to double check when I get home, it has ran fine for a couple months with exception of we had moved the slide down in the auger which caused a lot of issues. The detectors don't go off all the time, only after the stove has ran for about 24 hours or so, and it's only the one download stairs. The detectors have all been checked they are working properly. So I don't feel there is a need to call a fire department when they stop going off after the area has been ventilated. We have a walk out basement, lithe detectors setting 5-10 feet from the stove , when its moved away towards our upstairs stairway it quits. The fore department will tell us the alarms are going off due to the pellet stove which we already know, what I was looking nor was suggestions on why it would be doing this? Someplace that may be loose, I don't know?


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## Kathryn8518 (Jan 19, 2015)

TimfromMA said:


> Somehow, exhaust gases are escaping into your living space. Any number of things can cause that.
> 
> Hole in your heat exchanger
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I have heard the gasket before also, so I will make sure we are checking everything ! That's actually a big help. I need to go down a list and make sure we have checked everything before we try to run it again


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 19, 2015)

The fire department likely has the equipment to pinpoint the leak no guessing required.


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## Peterfield (Jan 19, 2015)

Kathryn8518 said:


> Bed time and3 children and working this morning. For some reason all these messages haven't come to my phone. The stove is a king 5502 I believe. I would have to double check when I get home, it has ran fine for a couple months with exception of we had moved the slide down in the auger which caused a lot of issues. The detectors don't go off all the time, only after the stove has ran for about 24 hours or so, and it's only the one download stairs. The detectors have all been checked they are working properly. So I don't feel there is a need to call a fire department when they stop going off after the area has been ventilated. We have a walk out basement, lithe detectors setting 5-10 feet from the stove , when its moved away towards our upstairs stairway it quits. The fore department will tell us the alarms are going off due to the pellet stove which we already know, what I was looking nor was suggestions on why it would be doing this? Someplace that may be loose, I don't know?



Kathryn, what folks are trying to tell you is the gas is odorless and you won't "see" it or "smell" it, so either your local gas company or fire department will be able to bring a special CO detector far more sensitive that what we all use and in all likelihood trace the source of the leak.  You can't screw around with this issue.  Excuse the pun but you are really playing with fire here.  Be smart please and get a professional to take a look.


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

As Smokey says they can pin point the leak, if its the stove or someplace on the venting. Can probably rule out door gaskets as the burn chamber is under negative pressure.


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## Dirttracker18 (Jan 19, 2015)

First off bring in a professional before someone dies!

Second, my guess is it is not likely the pellet stove itself but more likely the stove causing a backdraft of another device.  First culprit is a water heater tank.

We went through this when we sealed up our house better.  Alarms started going off from time to time.  We traced it back to the water tank when either the bathroom or stove fan is on, causing a backdraft.  

Gotta get this solved ASAP.


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## ken372 (Jan 19, 2015)

I don't understand the debate here,this is a clear no brainer! When the co detector went off the first time exit the area call 911 and do not re enter til the house has been cleared! End of story.


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## Old Spartan (Jan 19, 2015)

ken372 said:


> I don't understand the debate here,this is a clear no brainer! When the co detector went off the first time exit the area call 911 and do not re enter til the house has been cleared! End of story.



Yepper !

Nothing else makes a dram of sense


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## snocross1985 (Jan 19, 2015)

I had a coworker die on Thanksgiving from CO poisoning. I really hope your children are not sleeping in the house while this is happening. I would hate to hear of something awful happening. Please stay out of the house and call the fire department.


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## Jason845845 (Jan 19, 2015)

The Op asked for help, we told her what to do, she wants to fix it herself.


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## hoverwheel (Jan 19, 2015)

I hope it's painless. 

Me, I just wouldn't run that stove until I knew what caused the problem and it was fixed. But that's me.


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## Jman87 (Jan 19, 2015)

Something to keep in mind.

CO may not be coming from your pellet stove making any attempts mute.

It's simple. CO is deadly. You NEED to pinpoint where it is coming from before you assume. 

I speak for everyone here when I say we don't want anything happening to you or your family. 

There are something's you just don't mess around with.

Apply our advice and be safe. 

Sincerely.


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

I found once a kitchen stove was the culprit. Negative home pressure when the dryer ran upset the works.


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## Bioburner (Jan 19, 2015)

HomeSafe.com has an excellent article on Carbon Monoxide and its detectors.


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## Jman87 (Jan 19, 2015)

Ya don't tug on super mans cape, ya don't whizz into the wind, ya don't mess with CO


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## SKOAL MAN (Jan 19, 2015)

I think the CO2 poisoning has already started, hence the irrational thinking of the OP!


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## DMKNLD (Jan 19, 2015)

Kathryn,

Fire depts go to these type of calls multiple times a week during this time of the year. You are not bothering or inconveniencing them.

It is not only their job, it is their preference to do an 'agency assist' / public service call to go to a residence with a gas detection meter prior to the fact, as opposed to having to go in with body bags after the fact. As we speak, my local FD is on a CO alarm call in a residential basement, which was just determined to be a faulty CO alarm. But all the residents were evacuated until the house could be cleared, and every fossil fuel burning appliance was checked for leaks.

Fire depts respond to these incidents, as in any possible CO call, with full SCBA (self contained breathing apparatus) air-pack precautions . So what does that say about the potential risk to you and your family? Most CO fatalities happen during sleep, which is one of the deleterious physiological effects of CO poisoning, where victims lapse into a coma, unable to wake up, and are not found until it is too late, often by someone who comes looking for them, who can also then be tragically overcome and add to the needless loss of life.

As a 30 year EMT / Paramedic, I've seen this very scenario far too many times, having lost count on the number of CO fatalities I've responded to in my career. But I know about 3/4 of them have been kids. I get 'sweaty' eyes and a pit in my stomach just thinking back to those 'kid calls', the worst ones we have to respond to ....... Especially the ones that were preventable.....

So, PLEASE get your house checked, for you and your kids safety, and the safety of neighbors or other family members who would come looking for you if you were not answering your phone or coming to the door. PLEASE do what people are pleading for you to do, or tragically you or your kids may not get your decision back.


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## AccentraRRT (Jan 19, 2015)

I am going to go with something I don't think I saw anyone else mention....
You said it's cleaned daily and you have, "taken the pipes off and cleaned them as well." 
There could be a chance that the exhaust pipes have not been reconnected properly. They also should be siliconed at the seams using a high heat resistant silicone to be extra sure there is no leak. This could be the culprit.


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## Harvey Schneider (Jan 20, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> I found once a kitchen stove was the culprit. Negative home pressure when the dryer ran upset the works.


Yet another argument for an OAK. Oops, I didn't mean to start that up again.
Three kids in the house and she wants to screw around with CO alarms. Will somebody call Child Protective Services in her area?
When resources are scarce, people tend to make poor choices regarding the use of those resources. Sounds like she is chronically pressed for time. Hence she cannot dedicate the time to have somebody come in, but she can chase it down herself.


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## hoverwheel (Jan 20, 2015)

Harvey Schneider said:


> ... Three kids in the house and she wants to screw around with CO alarms. Will somebody call Child Protective Services in her area? ...



As she hasn't responded since Noon yesterday, I suspect the issue is moot.


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