# LED Strip Lighting



## jebatty (Jan 10, 2014)

I was looking for LED lighting to replace the kitchen under cabinet lighting, now several halogen lights. Looked at LED strip lighting, just bought a 6' strip off of *bay, including the walwart transformer and dimmer, and I'm really impressed -- very bright, dimmable, and the 3 x 20 watt halogen lights now will be replaced with the strip light at 19 watts: brighter and more uniform under cabinet lighting. Also can dim down to 2 watts.

About $26 incl s/h. The strip has the LED's on an adhesive tape, which might need some help to keep the tape stuck under the cabinet, and the strip can be cut to desired length. 300 LEDs in a 16' strip.


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## begreen (Jan 10, 2014)

IKEA sells these too.


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## PapaDave (Jan 10, 2014)

The problem I have is there are no outlets under most of my uppers.
That will be remedied at some point in the future when I redo the room, but I've considered using battery powered LED, if they're available.
The shadows from overhead lights drive me crazy.
Task lighting, instead of whole room lighting is a good idea in some instances.
We do have an LED light strip under the uppers in the laundry room over the washer/dryer that works well.


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## 1750 (Jan 13, 2014)

We have incandescents on dimmers under the uppers (not my idea).   

Does anyone know if I can just screw new bulb-type LEDs into the fixtures and not use the dimmers, or would I have to pull the dimmers and put in a new switch (with or without an LED dimmer)?

Thanks!


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## begreen (Jan 13, 2014)

If the LED bulb is dimmable, yes that should work.


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## 1750 (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks, bg.  I'll give that a try.


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## begreen (Jan 13, 2014)

Pay attention to the LED bulb color temperature if this will be lighting food. Some cheap leds can be very bluish. For a similar light to incandescent find a bulb that is around 3000K in color temperature.


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## 1750 (Jan 13, 2014)

Great to know and I'll do that.  

Thanks again.


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## Galt (Jan 14, 2014)

Visible light is roughly from 400 to 700 nanometers, or from wavelengths just above UV to just below IR. The spectrums in between range through a color wheel kind of progression beginning with purple on the low end, then blue, green, yellow, orange, red to white. Light sources may emit across the entire spectrum (from UV to IR say) but concentrate the majority of their visible light in a band from say 600 to 700 nanometers (mainly yellow to reds). There is also a corresponding color temperature scale (degrees Kelvin) and different marketing classifications for these visible light bands with the higher temps on the red end and the lower temps twoard the purple end. Most of the artificial light that we use is marketed as Soft White, Bright White, and Day Light, with the former being the more yellow and the latter being more intensly white. When you buy LED's you are likely getting an array of several specific nanometer diodes (eg., 620, 640 and 660) that do not have any other portion of light being emitted at any other wavelength, so they usually appear more harsh or intense. Fluorescents and CFL's are more like the incandescents and HID's in that they may be "rated" or marketed as say 6500 degree Kelvin temp. lamps because that's where the bulk of their light is but they may actually emit light across the entire spectrum as well. Don't recall exactly but I'm pretty sure that the fluorescents usually have the broadest spectral spread compared to others but they all vary as to what percentage of their visible light is focused close to their rated color temp. Generally people prefer the softer white for reading and the brighter to day light for color rendering and task lighting.

One thing about old eyes however is that you can never have enough, whichever temperature you choose. Again, old brain and I don't recall exactly but I think I read that someone over the age of 50 will require something like 50% more/brighter task light than say a 20 year old. I know that where I used to be comfortable with anything more than a candle working in my shop when I was younger, I now find fluorescents for general lighting mixed with more and brighter task lighting is barely tolerable. Sucks gettin' old.


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## 1750 (Jan 14, 2014)

Thank you for the comprehensive response, Galt!

I will look for more task lighting!


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## HybridFyre (Jan 16, 2014)

jebatty said:


> I was looking for LED lighting to replace the kitchen under cabinet lighting, now several halogen lights. Looked at LED strip lighting, just bought a 6' strip off of *bay, including the walwart transformer and dimmer, and I'm really impressed -- very bright, dimmable, and the 3 x 20 watt halogen lights now will be replaced with the strip light at 19 watts: brighter and more uniform under cabinet lighting. Also can dim down to 2 watts.
> 
> About $26 incl s/h. The strip has the LED's on an adhesive tape, which might need some help to keep the tape stuck under the cabinet, and the strip can be cut to desired length. 300 LEDs in a 16' strip.



Link to strip lighting or carrier? There's a lot of crap on eBay so I'd rather try one that gets good reviews from someone.


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## jebatty (Jan 16, 2014)

First impression only as I haven't installed them yet. This is the seller's store. I got the 5050 LEDs. The seller has good ratings.
http://stores.ebay.com/thejonvh/


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## 1750 (Jan 17, 2014)

I just bought a couple of the Feit 60 Watt LED (~$10 at Costco).   I'm surprised at how heavy they are.

More to the point:   I like the color (3000K) and brightness (850 Lumens).   However, on a review site I was just reading it said:

_The Feit LED can operate in temperatures between 27 and 81 degrees Fahrenheit. This temperature span is not as great as that of other products we reviewed. Additionally, this light bulb should never go in a fully enclosed light fixture because the LED bulb may overhe_at.  http://led-light-bulbs-review.toptenreviews.com/feit-led-light-bulbs-review.html

Of course, it doesn't say anything about this on the packaging, and the application examples on the package even show a fully enclosed ceiling fixture.  I had understood that LEDs weren't as susceptible to overheating.  Alas.

Do you lighting geniuses think I should put the incandescents back in?  (CFLs don't work here because this application is enclosed and inverted, and they appear to overheat. )

Thanks in advance!


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## jebatty (Jan 18, 2014)

Heat will be a by-product of converting electricity to visible light for a long time to come. Various brands and designs of LED bulbs differ in heat output per watt of electricity as well as their ability to dissipate that heat without damaging the LED or electronic driver circuitry. Consequently, some LED bulbs need more open air circulation to get rid of damaging heat than other LED bulbs. As you discovered, it is important to pick an LED bulb designed for a particular application (enclosed or not enclosed, for example), and the cost likely will vary. The least expensive is not necessarily the best choice if it will not work in the desired application.


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## jebatty (Jan 21, 2014)

Put the strip light up yesterday. The sticky tape sticks well to the varnished underside of our upper cabinets; time will tell whether or not it stays stuck. Also the tape permitted a bend in the strip around a 45* corner. The strip light is much brighter (can be dimmed down) that the three halogen lights it replaced. Also on full brightness 20w vs 65w as measured by the Kill-o-watt. Color is very white. Most importantly, my wife likes it.

When we remodeled our kitchen in 1996 we put a duplex wall outlet inside the cabinet just for the purpose of cabinet lighting. The outlet is switched by a wall switch along with other kitchen lighting. I tried taking a picture, but the pix doesn't really show the lighting very well.


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## 1750 (Jan 21, 2014)

jebatty said:


> Heat will be a by-product of converting electricity to visible light for a long time to come. Various brands and designs of LED bulbs differ in heat output per watt of electricity as well as their ability to dissipate that heat without damaging the LED or electronic driver circuitry. Consequently, some LED bulbs need more open air circulation to get rid of damaging heat than other LED bulbs. As you discovered, it is important to pick an LED bulb designed for a particular application (enclosed or not enclosed, for example), and the cost likely will vary. The least expensive is not necessarily the best choice if it will not work in the desired application.


Thank you for this.   The packaging never says don't use this for an enclosed application (and even shows such an application on the package).   The only reference to not employing them like this is from the review site.  Once again, if only I wasn't such a neurotic post-purchase product researcher, I'd be none the wiser.

I've left the LEDs in the enclosed fixture, and so far they seem to be doing very nicely.  Of course, maybe the deleterious effect of the heat is cumulative and will primarily serve to shorten the lifespan of the bulb.  Or, maybe the bulbs will outlast me.


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## jebatty (Jan 21, 2014)

The LED bulbs I bought show on the packaging that they are to be used in\s a lamp that allows airflow from bottom to top, like most table lamps, and warns that because the bulbs are heavy, they need to be used in a lamp that will not tip. But like you, I put some bulbs in enclosed fixtures, one is the stove exhaust vent fixture that not only is enclosed but can get warm from using the stove, and I will wait and see how they do. One thing for sure, they put out a lot less heat than a CFL of similar watt equivalent rating.


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## 1750 (Jan 22, 2014)

I think the heaviness is what surprised me the most.  I wonder what all that mass is about?

The light quality is really good (much better than the CFLs), and I'm hoping they work for a long, long time.

Good luck!


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## woodgeek (Jan 22, 2014)

I think the mass is in the heat sink.  What heat the LED emitters make is quite localized and needs to be spread out over a large area.


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## maple1 (Jan 30, 2014)

jebatty said:


> I was looking for LED lighting to replace the kitchen under cabinet lighting, now several halogen lights. Looked at LED strip lighting, just bought a 6' strip off of *bay, including the walwart transformer and dimmer, and I'm really impressed -- very bright, dimmable, and the 3 x 20 watt halogen lights now will be replaced with the strip light at 19 watts: brighter and more uniform under cabinet lighting. Also can dim down to 2 watts.
> 
> About $26 incl s/h. The strip has the LED's on an adhesive tape, which might need some help to keep the tape stuck under the cabinet, and the strip can be cut to desired length. 300 LEDs in a 16' strip.


 
We've got an 18" double tube flourescent up over the kitchen sink that I want to replace by a LED strip.

It's hard-wired, with its switch down under one of my uppers.

I've been checking out Ebay but been getting lost in all the choices, and wasn't sure about some things.

Can these strips just be hard wired to a switched piece of romex? All I've seen seem to use a plug in adaptor/wall wart. Will I have to figure out how to wire in a receptacle up there so I can plug the strip in (and keep it all out of sight)?

Apparently these strips can be cut to length. But if you cut them in half, can you then somehow power both halves?

Can you provide more info so I can see exactly the unit you got? Again - way too many choices to wade through and I'm not 100% sure what I should be looking for.


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## HybridFyre (Jan 30, 2014)

Maple...if they are hardwired to romex maybe you can pull enough out so you can mount a plug receptacle to it and just put it on top of your cabinets if you have access to the top and they don't go to the ceiling. That's what I did on mine. Getting ready to hook up my LED's next.


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## jebatty (Jan 31, 2014)

> Can these strips just be hard wired to a switched piece of romex? All I've seen seem to use a plug in adaptor/wall wart. Will I have to figure out how to wire in a receptacle up there so I can plug the strip in (and keep it all out of sight)?


The florescent likely is wired into a ceiling box. If the romex to the box provides a hot and neutral, then you probably can put a duplex or single receptacle cover on the box, plug the walwart into the receptacle, and then the low voltage walwart wire to the strip. The switch then will turn the strip on/off. If the romex runs hot/hot to the ceiling fixture, can't do.



> But if you cut them in half, can you then somehow power both halves?


 The info says the strips can be cut at marked points on the strip. Didn't do that, so can't give any particulars.



> Can you provide more info so I can see exactly the unit you got?


This in the 6 foot length, with walwart and dimmer, is exactly what I got: This is the seller's store. I got the 5050 LEDs. The seller has good ratings.
http://stores.ebay.com/thejonvh/


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## maple1 (Jan 31, 2014)

Actually I think the romex comes into the flourescent fixture through a knockout in the fixture, is held there with a box connector, then wire nutted to the fixture wires inside its enclosure.

Guess I need to put a receptacle box up there & go from there. Now how to hide all that stuff...


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## Dave A. (Jan 31, 2014)

jebatty said:


> This in the 6 foot length, with walwart and dimmer, is exactly what I got: This is the seller's store. I got the 5050 LEDs. The seller has good ratings.
> http://stores.ebay.com/thejonvh/



Just checking that out and looks promising but a lot of unanswered questions.  I'd like to replace my under cabinet florescents with them (f8t5 -- about 6 of them in  5 fixtures + 1 24" bulb, 3 fixtures  are 12" for 18" cabinets plus a 24" fixture with 2 bulbs and a 36" with 1 + the 24" bulb -- 8' total, they're on about 16 hours/day and I replace the bulbs on line at a good price but cost about $40 (am guessing) every two-four years (bulbs last about a year and a half or so and I get a double order). 

So these LED's might cost about the same but would last a lot longer -- maybe eight years or so, but would be harder to replace.   Still being able to dim would be nice and probably make them last even longer plus elec consumption should be less assuming they are as bright.

But they don't list lumens so can't tell if they are as bright as what I have (about 330 lumens/ft new).  And am not sure how I could do it.  Right now I switch controls the room with romex running out under the cabinet at each fixture -- 1 wall run divided by window and corner, and another wall run on other side of room divided by stove.

So would need about 8' but not sure how to attach new wire to them if you cut the long strip into pieces, or if you need to buy separate pieces to get the lead wires.  Also am not sure if the wiring can be run through the walls legally to do the other side of the room -- would need to run through attic above.   Am assuming I'd have to take the romex to the first fixture and install an outlet with the wall wart in the cabinet above, drill a hole in the bottom of the cabinet to run the wire through. And hide the wiring (speaker wiring they indicate) behind the cabinet to run around the window to the second strip under the next cabinet.  But then when I go to the other wall I'd have to run the speaker wire up through the attic and across to the other wall. It's only 12v so should be like running thermostats, not a problem, would think.

I realize there are a lot of questions.  But maybe there might be a link to installation directions or a board that discusses installing them.


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## jebatty (Jan 31, 2014)

They do list lumens. The website says 300 LEDs in a 16' strip, 15 lumens/LED. That's 300 x 15 / 16 = 281 lumens/foot. I can't advise how to cut the strips, wire together strips or partial strips. I think it is no more than soldering low voltage wire of suitable gauge between the contacts on the strips, but I haven't done it. Since these have a 12v power supply, there must be some sort of driver on the strip or wiring to power the LEDs on 12v, since LEDs operate on lower voltage.

My wife and I are very pleased with the light from the 6' strip I put up. Color is on the white side, not the red side like the prior halogens.


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## Dave A. (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks for the reply.  Must have missed the lumen info but that sounds not quite as bright as what I've got.  Was doing some youtubing meanwhile and found some more info.  There's flexfire which has some much brighter ones (not residential) that vary up to over twice as bright per foot as what I have. Didn't see the cost, though.

Another place showed special pigtails for where you cut off but didn't show installing them.  So maybe they do have to be soldered -- would like to avoid soldering if possible.

Edit:  checking again, looks like they all have special clip on connectors for attaching at a point on the LED strip where the contacts are, so soldering should not be necessary.

The only problem I have with the linked ebay ones, is their dimmer, doesn't look like it can be mounted in a wall box, like others.  Still not sure whether I could get by using a regular rotary dimmer controlling the outlet where the power supply plugs in to do the dimming.


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## FanMan (Jan 31, 2014)

If I can show off a bit, I just finished making a desk lamp with LED strips (I bought a 15' strip on ebay).  This lamp is made from reclaimed American Chestnut from renovation work I did on my cabin a couple of years ago, and a mountain laurel branch from the same area.  Powered by a 12VDC wall wart, it could also be used for an RV or off grid cabin:







With four rows of 5050 LED strips (18 LEDs each), it puts out about 1000 lumens, roughly equivalent to an 18W fluorescent or a 60W incandescent bulb.

More pix and info on my website.


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## Former Farmer (Jan 31, 2014)

Nice work FanMan!


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## jebatty (Feb 1, 2014)

Beautiful, and IMO you are welcome to show off. The LED strips offer a lot of versatility in efficient lighting. An electrician friend of mine says he has installed these under banister railings for stair lighting. Since they are bright to look at, installs where the LED is not in the line of sight would be important where that is an issue.


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## maple1 (Feb 1, 2014)

Wow - that's a very cool lap there FanMan.

So for the 4 strips - did you have to do some wiring/soldering between the strips?


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## FanMan (Feb 1, 2014)

Yes, when you buy it on a bulk spool you have to cut them (only at the marked points, every 3 LEDs or approximately 2.25" intervals), cut away the clear plastic cover to expose the solder pads, and solder lead wires to them.  Unless you use the whole 15' strip; it comes with leads soldered to one end.

I stuck the four strips to a copper plate and wired them together, then mounted the copper plate into the lamp after it was finished.


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## maple1 (Feb 2, 2014)

Hmmm, now I'm coming up with more ideas. Maybe use one transformer plug in/power source, scatter some strip sections around my cabinets here & there, and wire them together with some small guage wire that will be easier to string & hide. Anything special needed for the connecting wire? Thermostat wire? Or does it even need to be that heavy? I assume they would all need to be wired in series.


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## Dave A. (Feb 2, 2014)

begreen said:


> IKEA sells these too.



If so, I couldn't find them -- i.e. the strip lighting you can cut to the size you want.  All I saw were much more expensive made up fixtures on the ikea site.  This ebay site looks pretty good, if you spend some time figuring things out and going through all 7 pages or so of items.  Their strip lighting comes in about 3 different brightness ranges, the rather dim ones 3528 (which might be good for the top of cabinet near ceiling -- valance/cove type accent lighting), the 5050 that jeb got, and a new professional type that's double the 5050 lumens.

All three types come in cool white and warm white. Some youtuber suggested using only warm white in a kitchen.  There are different ratings on the power supplies based on how many watts or feet you've got.  They also sell the clip on leads in bags of 5 (with clips on each end) for joining sections and they suggest speaker or bell wire for splicing or if you put together an order with different length pieces (by the foot) they'll supply the number of leads you need for joining.  Another site suggested crimp connectors vs. wire nuts, former making a neater run, for joining your thin gauge wire to the spliced pieces.

I'm a little hesitant to glue these strips to the bottoms of my cabinets directly.  One youtuber used thin aluminum strips with holes drilled to attach to the cabinets gluing the lighting to the aluminum -- which would make attaching and removing (if/when necessary) less of a problem.  He liked the idea for heat dissipation.


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## FanMan (Feb 2, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Hmmm, now I'm coming up with more ideas. Maybe use one transformer plug in/power source, scatter some strip sections around my cabinets here & there, and wire them together with some small guage wire that will be easier to string & hide. Anything special needed for the connecting wire? Thermostat wire? Or does it even need to be that heavy? I assume they would all need to be wired in series.



You can wire them in parallel from one central point or you can connect them end to end, it doesn't matter.  Wire size according to the current (which depends on how long the strip is), google will find wire gauge vs current charts.


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## begreen (Feb 9, 2014)

Dave A. said:


> If so, I couldn't find them -- i.e. the strip lighting you can cut to the size you want.  All I saw were much more expensive made up fixtures on the ikea site.  This ebay site looks pretty good, if you spend some time figuring things out and going through all 7 pages or so of items.  Their strip lighting comes in about 3 different brightness ranges, the rather dim ones 3528 (which might be good for the top of cabinet near ceiling -- valance/cove type accent lighting), the 5050 that jeb got, and a new professional type that's double the 5050 lumens.
> 
> All three types come in cool white and warm white. Some youtuber suggested using only warm white in a kitchen.  There are different ratings on the power supplies based on how many watts or feet you've got.  They also sell the clip on leads in bags of 5 (with clips on each end) for joining sections and they suggest speaker or bell wire for splicing or if you put together an order with different length pieces (by the foot) they'll supply the number of leads you need for joining.  Another site suggested crimp connectors vs. wire nuts, former making a neater run, for joining your thin gauge wire to the spliced pieces.
> 
> I'm a little hesitant to glue these strips to the bottoms of my cabinets directly.  One youtuber used thin aluminum strips with holes drilled to attach to the cabinets gluing the lighting to the aluminum -- which would make attaching and removing (if/when necessary) less of a problem.  He liked the idea for heat dissipation.



Correct. Ikeas are preconfigured packages ready for mounting under a cabinet, etc. Here is a 4 strip kit:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20119418/
and a one strip kit
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30180778/


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