# Best Zero Clearance Wood Option



## syadasti (Jan 27, 2018)

I am looking for a zero clearance wood solution for new construction shown below in red (it's about 55" between the window and sliding glass doors - obviously the chair shown wouldn't be there if we put a hearth in this spot).  I have seen there are at least a few zero clearance inserts like the Lopi Hybrid Fyre and some Superior models.  Ideally I'd want a Blaze King Sirocco 25 but those aren't zero clearance compatible AFAIK.  This is a very well insulated home with a winter heating design of only 16000-18000 BTUs so we'd only likely want 11-18000 BTU fire burning in it.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks


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## begreen (Jan 27, 2018)

The RSF Opel is available in  catalytic models but that may be too high output.


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## syadasti (Jan 31, 2018)

Does anyone make any like the Rais Visio 3 available in the US:

https://www.rais.com/en/inserts/rais-visio-3


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## begreen (Jan 31, 2018)

There are some nice North American made units, but very few of the contemporary designs available in Europe make it to our shores.


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## syadasti (Jan 31, 2018)

So anything available or just questionable items like the Lennox CPF-38 (can't seem to find any data about BTUs, emissions, etc)


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## begreen (Jan 31, 2018)

Rais US only lists stoves and outdoor fireplaces. Importing a single unit from the UK or Europe is possible, but very expensive. Lennox is no longer in the fireplace business. That unit is now sold under Astria as the Monterey. Most peninsula fireplaces sold in the US are gas these days, but there also is the Superior WRT40PF wood burning peninsula fireplace.
http://astria.us.com/products/monterey-peninsula
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Firep...ed-Fireplaces/Superior-WRT40PF-Wood-Fireplace


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## syadasti (Jan 31, 2018)

Saw the superior too but no specs on BTUs, emissions, etc.


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## begreen (Jan 31, 2018)

I think that's because they are mostly for show, not heating and are with no special emissions control or efficiency options.


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## jetsam (Jan 31, 2018)

begreen said:


> I think that's because they are mostly for show, not heating and are with no special emissions control or efficiency options.



Forgive my ZC ignorance- I've seen people posting that they heat their houses with ZC units, but clearly some ZC units are purely decorative.  How do you sort the heaters from the ornaments?


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## syadasti (Jan 31, 2018)

The EU units seem to be high efficiency and have better doors on them.  Why are the North American makers lazy?


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## begreen (Jan 31, 2018)

syadasti said:


> The EU units seem to be high efficiency and have better doors on them.  Why are the North American makers lazy?


Low demand most likely. Gas peninsula fireplaces are much more popular.  Changing regs may affect this market soon.


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## begreen (Jan 31, 2018)

jetsam said:


> Forgive my ZC ignorance- I've seen people posting that they heat their houses with ZC units, but clearly some ZC units are purely decorative.  How do you sort the heaters from the ornaments?


There is a broad spectrum of ZCs on the market. They range from very cheap contractor specials to quite efficient, EPA phase II heaters. To sort out the better heaters, look for the EPA rating for starters.


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## syadasti (Feb 27, 2018)

Not sure now if we're doing a fireplace or going back to a woodstove now.  The fireplace was considered because we could have a hearth and put a TV over it but we have concern the TV will be too high for comfortable use because you have to tilt your head too much.  Even with a zero clearance model it looks like the bottom of the TV would be about 5' off the ground.  Does anyone have a TV setup like that - will having a tilt TV wall mount make that less of a problem?  We'll be sitting 6' from a 55" TV in the room.

Alternatively we'll put a wood stove or fireplace where we planned but put the TV in the NE corner of the room at normal height so it would 2.5-3' lower but the max TV we could fit in that corner is probably 49"?

I was wondering if anyone can offer feedback on this ZC fireplace - Supreme Astra24CF

Similar to the RSF Opel 3C, it's output is more like what we need in our super tight house but the style is better than the RSF and the fact it doesn't have a cat means we wouldn't have to worry about cat replacement in 5-7 years which can be a significant cost.  It's also the most user friendly in log size - 24" logs is huge (vs 18" for RSF) and it burns for up to 10 hours which is nice.  It also can use a variety of cheaper 6" chimneys rather than RSF that requires an expensive 7" Excel chimney.

Output is 12,237 to 23,872 BTU/hr which good.

http://www.supremem.com/astra_24cf.php

Has an automatic air control feature that reminds me of the thermostat feature on the Blaze King:


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## syadasti (Feb 27, 2018)

Also if we did use the Astra24CF, which 6" chimney do you think is best?  I'm not familiar enough to say which one is the best option and have only seen one or two brands in person - I think one was Duravent Plus HTC?


Manufacturer Models
American Metal  HS, AC Triple Wall, 6” inner diameter
 HSS, AC Triple Wall, 6” inner diameter
FMI (US only)  AC, AC Triple Wall, 6” inner diameter
ICC  Excel 2100, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
Metal Fab  Temp Guard, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
Olympia Chimney  Ventis, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
Security Chimney  ASHT+, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 S-2100+, 2” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
Selkirk
 Super Pro (SPR), 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Super Pro 2100 (ALT), 2” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Hart & Cooley (TLC), 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Sure-Temp (ST), 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Super Vent (JSC), 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Super Vent 2100 (JM), 2” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Ultra-Temp (UT), 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 UltimateOne, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 CF Sentinel (CF), 2” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
Simpson Dura-Vent
 Dura Tech, 1” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Dura Plus HTC, 2” Solid Pack, 6” inner diameter
 Dura Plus, AC Triple Wall, 6” inner diameter


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## begreen (Feb 27, 2018)

Any of the 1" solid pack chimneys are better. Excel, Ventis, Ultra-Temp, DuraTech.


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## syadasti (Feb 27, 2018)

Is it worthwhile to get the more expensive 2" solid packs and which ones?  Given that my home is well insulated the majority of the time I'll be burning smaller fires which I assume might create more creosote buildup which is why I was thinking the 2" might be a worthwhile investment (plus if I did end up putting a TV over the fireplace the extra insulation could help protect the TV from heated related problems?)

Any comment on Supreme or their Astra24?


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## begreen (Feb 27, 2018)

I don't think so. Ventis and Excel make first class quality chimney. Most of the heat the tv will see will be from the fireplace below it. The mantel will block some. If you are concerned you could insulate the area behind the tv.


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## syadasti (Feb 27, 2018)

I am thinking the Supreme Astra24CF with Excel 6" would be a great option.  Wish I could get some feedback on the fireplace or Supreme in general.

Thanks again.


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## syadasti (Feb 28, 2018)

I looked more and found two options I liked better with lower minimum mantle heights too

Non-cat:
Superior WRT4820
http://superiorfireplaces.us.com/products/wrt4820

Cat:
FireplaceX 42 Apex Clean Face Wood Fireplace
http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500107

Given that I will typical run low to med all the time - likely between 13000-18000 BTU/hr, which model do you think would better suit my application?


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## TJA (Apr 30, 2019)

syadasti said:


> I looked more and found two options I liked better with lower minimum mantle heights too
> 
> Non-cat:
> Superior WRT4820
> ...



Curious what you ended up going with and how it worked out? I found this thread while researching the Supreme Astra24CF that I am considering for my new construction. Any feedback?
Thanks


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## mcdougy (Apr 30, 2019)

My personal experience is that it would be a shame not to consider the pacifac energy line. The fp30 has run awesome for me and from what I see all people are happy with them.


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## begreen (May 1, 2019)

gilsulate said:


> I think that's because they are mostly for show, not heating and are with no special emissions control or efficiency options.


 Modern EPA fireplaces can be very good heaters.


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## webby3650 (May 1, 2019)

There’s a terminology barrier in this thread. High Efficiency zero clearance Fireplaces are awesome heaters! Zero clearance fireplaces are decorative, like a masonry fireplace. A masonry fireplace is what an insert goes into. An insert is never inserted into anything but an existing fireplace.


syadasti said:


> The EU units seem to be high efficiency and have better doors on them.  Why are the North American makers lazy?


I’m not sure why you think this is the case? The high efficiency ZC units that are American made are solid units.


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## jetsam (May 1, 2019)

The difference between a fireplace and a stove is a little ambiguous, too. I bet if you asked ten people on here what the difference was, you'd get nine different answers.

Before I became a hearth regular, I would have told you that any airtight unit with air controls was a stove, and anything that didn't have a door that seals was a fireplace (or a real old stove).


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## bholler (May 1, 2019)

jetsam said:


> The difference between a fireplace and a stove is a little ambiguous, too. I bet if you asked ten people on here what the difference was, you'd get nine different answers.
> 
> Before I became a hearth regular, I would have told you that any airtight unit with air controls was a stove, and anything that didn't have a door that seals was a fireplace (or a real old stove).


And your old definition of a stove is pretty accurate.  The high efficency fireplaces could easily be called built in stoves because that is what they really are.


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## mcdougy (May 1, 2019)

bholler said:


> And your old definition of a stove is pretty accurate.  The high efficency fireplaces could easily be called built in stoves because that is what they really are.



Roger that.
 For those not familiar, as far as my "fp30 fireplace" goes it's basically a insert. The difference being that no masonry structure needed. You create the look of a fireplace/insert. The fp30 is the summit firebox placed inside another box of light gauge steel that has some insulation attached to it. Then you are able to push it directly up to the rear wall.
As far as performance, I am amazed at how well this one heats a new home.
IMO not any less or any more than stove. Possibly better than a insert because the secondary box is insulated and the wall you've pushed it up against is either a interior wall or a insulated exterior wall. A better situation than a insert placed in uninsulated masonary structure. 
Thumbs up to these types of units. They can solely heat 6200 sqft in Ontario Canada, I'm living it & loving it. It's pumping btus tonight.


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## begreen (May 1, 2019)

mcdougy said:


> For those not familiar, as far as my "fp30 fireplace" goes it's basically a insert.


That is the wrong term, often used by fireplace salespersons. An insert is a convection jacketed stove that inserts into an existing fireplace. The FP30 is an EPA zero-clearance fireplace. The Summit insert is a different beast. What they have in common are the firebox innards. One can not install the Summit insert in a wood framed enclosure. The FP30's additional metal cabinet and shielding allow this.


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## mcdougy (May 1, 2019)

I was referring to a insert in the terms it can only produce heat out the front. Radiating or fan powered. Where as a stove I imagine it producing heat from all sides.


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## bholler (May 1, 2019)

mcdougy said:


> I was referring to a insert in the terms it can only produce heat out the front. Radiating or fan powered. Where as a stove I imagine it producing heat from all sides.


Yes but it is a very common area of confusion that can lead to disastrous results.  An insert can only be put in an approved fireplace.


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## mcdougy (May 1, 2019)

bholler said:


> Yes but it is a very common area of confusion that can lead to disastrous results.  An insert can only be put in an approved fireplace.


People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.


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## bholler (May 1, 2019)

mcdougy said:


> People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.


Sadly it happens.


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## webby3650 (May 1, 2019)

mcdougy said:


> People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.


Like I said. Terminology is the issue here...


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## mcdougy (May 1, 2019)

In regards to a zero clearance fireplace what do you folks consider the key to longevity of the firebox? I try not to think long of the situation I would be in if there is a major issue with the firebox. Do fire boxes eventually wear out? If so what's a person keep in mind to not let or prolong failure of the firebox?
This is my only worry about a zc fireplace as alot of money can be spent on the facade.


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## nrc (May 8, 2019)

My wife and I have our fingers crossed that we'll be able to build a cabin in the boonies for retirement.  I was thinking about a nice BK Sirocco for it but then I noticed that the builder's drawings all state "Pre-Fab Fireplace Insert".  I assume that actually means a ZC manufactured fireplace and not really an insert.

I suppose that makes sense given that it's probably more economical to get a good ZC unit than to build a masonry fireplace and then put an insert in it.  It just seems like cheating to frame in a fireplace and put stone veneer on it to get that proper fireplace look.

I never thought to ask them about it when we visited their models.  The models both had rustic open fireplaces just for ambiance.  For most products they have preferred providers, but they don't seem to do that with fireplaces.  The only fireplace vendor at their last event sells "Kozy Heat" fireplaces.

https://www.kozyheat.com/products/wood-burning-fireplaces/

That doesn't look like what I saw in any of their models or galleries.  Anyone know what this one is?





We're shopping much more on the economy end of the scale on their cabin plans, but I love that fireplace. :D


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## EbS-P (May 8, 2019)

6’ from 55” is kinda close. I have no issues at 12’ with a 55”.  If it’s new construction I vote stove.  Photo taken 10’ from tv 



syadasti said:


> Not sure now if we're doing a fireplace or going back to a woodstove now.  The fireplace was considered because we could have a hearth and put a TV over it but we have concern the TV will be too high for comfortable use because you have to tilt your head too much.  Even with a zero clearance model it looks like the bottom of the TV would be about 5' off the ground.  Does anyone have a TV setup like that - will having a tilt TV wall mount make that less of a problem?  We'll be sitting 6' from a 55" TV in the room.
> 
> Alternatively we'll put a wood stove or fireplace where we planned but put the TV in the NE corner of the room at normal height so it would 2.5-3' lower but the max TV we could fit in that corner is probably 49"?
> 
> ...


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## BKVP (May 9, 2019)

begreen said:


> Low demand most likely. Gas peninsula fireplaces are much more popular.  Changing regs may affect this market soon.


Hold it!  The European models, tested outside the USA, use a completely different test method.  It has been demonstrated over and over at EPA authorized test labs that European models face extreme challenges passing on our test methods.  So the published results should be compared based upon identical test method results.


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## BKVP (May 9, 2019)

begreen said:


> There is a broad spectrum of ZCs on the market. They range from very cheap contractor specials to quite efficient, EPA phase II heaters. To sort out the better heaters, look for the EPA rating for starters.


There is no such product as zero clearance fireplace....although it has clearly been used both in industry and public.  The proper term, manufactured fireplace, is what industry is pushing to replace the more popular term.

So there are manufactured fireplaces and there are heaters that resemble fireplaces.  According to the EPA 2015 NSPS, a fireplace must meet three conditions.   I'll attach actual definitions under the rule.


The rest are heaters, under AAA of the rule and are required to be emissions/efficiency tested.

This distinction might explain why some "fireplaces" have more data that others.  It also distinguishes EPA Certified compared to EPA Compliant.


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## BKVP (May 9, 2019)

jetsam said:


> Forgive my ZC ignorance- I've seen people posting that they heat their houses with ZC units, but clearly some ZC units are purely decorative.  How do you sort the heaters from the ornaments?


See the last post...they are defined under EPA law.


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## BKVP (May 9, 2019)

syadasti said:


> I looked more and found two options I liked better with lower minimum mantle heights too
> 
> Non-cat:
> Superior WRT4820
> ...


You can also look at non combustible mantels.  These are popular in the application you are looking at.  Look at MagraHearth for example.  Metal bracket gets attached to the wall and a concrete mantel slides onto the bracket.  I have seen these things in person and at 6" away, they look like the real thing!


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## jetsam (May 9, 2019)

BKVP said:


> See the last post...they are defined under EPA law.



That's also a very different definition of the word "fireplace". I've heard a couple pros here describe a fireplace as anything that is built in (which covers ornamental units as well as heaters), and a stove/insert as anything that slides out (which also covers ornamental units and heaters). They are defining a fireplace as an ornamental unit.

It's everywhere though.  Ask ten people, even people in the trade, what a "french door" is, and you'll get nine answers.


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## BKVP (May 9, 2019)

Indeed.  There are many terms used and they can be confusing.  Just think of venting alone:

Double wall chimney
Triple wall chimney
Air cooled chimney
Insulated chimney
the list just goes on.  We often have to explain to consumers the difference between double wall, a term reserved for black, interior pipe and the "double wall Metalbestos" they have in their application.  It is this confusion that is driving industry to do away from the term Zero Clearance as their is no such product.  They all have stand offs and clearances!  Hard to change established terms....even when they are wrong.


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## begreen (May 9, 2019)

BKVP said:


> Hard to change established terms....even when they are wrong.


It's why we have the QWERTY keyboard.


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## webby3650 (May 9, 2019)

I don’t feel like most people actually think a ZC Fireplace is actually zero clearance really. No one seems to be shocked when you tell them it’s got to be 1/2” from the wall... just like when you tell someone that a dodge isn't really designed to be used as a truck. It’s techinally a truck, but can’t be expected to be used as such without consequences.


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