# Why the wood haters?? One bad apple...



## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

I burn wood to heat my home and shop. I know a lot of people who do. But I have to ask about the people and groups that are against it. I have seen a few posts or forums on this topic and have been looking at Heated Up! and other sites. I still think wood burned inside a combustion chamber is still better than burning in a pile.  I live in the Northeast part of South Dakota and we (what I have read) had zero trees hundreds of years ago. So, how can it be bad for us, to now burn wood? A lot of areas were harvested and clear cut for wood but I think we are so much better with burning wood now, than we were 100 years ago.

So, why all the wood heater haters or is it just the outdoor boiler owners not running their stoves right?  I saw the facebook page/group "Wood Burning Neighbors say the Darndest Things", who are the stupid wood stove users that are giving us all such a bad name?  We should do a door-to-door campaign to help them out if they are that bad at burning wood...


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## Lake Girl (Jan 18, 2016)

Just this weekend went for a walk with the dog ... rounded the corner and saw a pile of branches in the ditch where a portion of a couple of trees were cut for fire wood.  I shake my head ... green wood.  It drives me crazy as another local area was cut over 2 years ago ... road access all the way along.  They left a pile of birch on the ground ... not sure how long it is viable for wood heat but it was there all summer for 2 summers in a row.

Many of the "haters" are in areas where inversions occur...


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## pen (Jan 18, 2016)

Lots of burners of every type that aren't doing it well and make a bad name for the folks that do it right.

The problem is, the ones doing it poorly are often the ones that are most unwilling to change their habits.  

As far as a door to door to door campaign,,,,, that's just asking to get lead poisoning.

The folks who want to do better are willing to learn on their own and often find a place like this as part of the process.


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## jatoxico (Jan 18, 2016)

Lake Girl said:


> Many of the "haters" are in areas where inversions occur...


Partly for sure. Wood smoke is a health hazard, no two ways about it. Burn clean and reduce your risk. Done properly the risk is acceptable but if I lived next to someone burning green wood in an OWB I wouldn't be happy.


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## Riff (Jan 18, 2016)

Some folks I can understanding hating wood burners. There is a shop that is along a major road that has an OWB for heat. The smoke coming out of the chimney is thick, white, reeks of whatever potentially burnable material they filled it with. On a good day the smoke travels a couple hundred feet or longer, draping over the road and headed towards the local high school. Sure makes a bad impression on wood burners when you can't drive through the area without choking.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

Are the haters just "trolls" or people with a lot of time on their hands? But it seems like it is the loudest people who get attention. Even the federal government does not want to recognize the amount of people who use wood heat and the savings they get from it(I have seen and read articles of the lack of mention and recognition of wood heating but it is seems to be a "poor person's" form of heat). It seems you have to work in the winter to pay the heat bill or afford to live but if you burn heat you are a bad person. I heat with wood and am proud, it takes brains to do more than turn a dial.  


alliance for green heat

"Biomass heating receives much less government support than wind or solar in the US. Individuals receive a 30% federal tax credit with no upper limit for wind, solar and geothermal, but biomass stoves and furnaces receive 30% with a cap of $1,500 for several years, then a $300 tax credit and as of 2014, no tax credit at all. However, states are starting to provide more incentives. Outdoor wood boilers are often undermining support for biomass heating in America, but the growth of the pellet stove industry shows that biomass heating can be very clean and efficient".

Is big oil controlling how we see biomass?


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

pen said:


> Lots of burners of every type that aren't doing it well and make a bad name for the folks that do it right.
> 
> The problem is, the ones doing it poorly are often the ones that are most unwilling to change their habits.
> 
> ...




This is not on the topic but.... lead poisoning... is that how everyone reacts to people knocking on their doors? I guess we would be better off to a post card mailing or a PSA on tv and radio....


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## pen (Jan 18, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> Are the haters just "trolls" or people with a lot of time on their hands? s?



Not at all.  Reasonable folks, especially wood burners should be aggravated when folks abuse all of us with their poor habits.

Much of the problem comes from people not having properly seasoned wood and not running their equipment properly,,, this is especially true of setups that are not epa compliant.

It's many bad wood burners that end up being the enemy of the good ones.


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## Lake Girl (Jan 18, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> seems to be a "poor person's" form of heat


If you do a search of the forum, you will come up with mentions of community groups that provide wood for folks to use to heat their homes...


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## jatoxico (Jan 18, 2016)

pen said:


> It's many bad wood burners that end up being the enemy of the good ones.


There's a lot of "I've always done it that way" in wood burning. Lot in other things too I guess. Many people need to be dragged into change.


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## pen (Jan 18, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> This is not on the topic but.... lead poisoning... is that how everyone reacts to people knocking on their doors? I guess we would be better off to a post card mailing or a PSA on tv and radio....



Knocking on a door and telling a homeowner they are doing something wrong that they have been doing for years in many cases, just doesn't generally garner an invitation for coffee and further conversation.


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## barmstrong2 (Jan 18, 2016)

jatoxico said:


> There's a lot of "I've always done it that way" in wood burning. Lot in other things too I guess. Many people need to be dragged into change.


I know someone who burns 20+ cord a year in an OWB, all of it green, much of it split and thrown into the chamber. Smokes up the whole village. He doesn't care. Not one little bit.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

barmstrong2 said:


> I know someone who burns 20+ cord a year in an OWB, all of it green, much of it split and thrown into the chamber. Smokes up the whole village. He doesn't care. Not one little bit.



Should the courts get involved or is it simply their right to burn that way?


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## Wood Duck (Jan 18, 2016)

There are lots of wood burners in my neighborhood, and a few of them manage to produce a constant stream of dark smoke from their chimneys. If I lived downwind from one of those guys I might be a wood heat hater too. A few people doing wood heat improperly makes a much stronger impression than the majority doing it right. The guys who burn clean go completely unnoticed.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 18, 2016)

barmstrong2 said:


> I know someone who burns 20+ cord a year in an OWB, all of it green, much of it split and thrown into the chamber. Smokes up the whole village. He doesn't care. Not one little bit.


Must be the same guy i know ,but this guy doesnt know better,when i try to explain what dry wood is, all i get is "it burns fine the way it is" .Usually you can tell within 5 minutes of talking to these guys if you can get through or not.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

I think with the American flag, people burning wood should fly a wood heater flag so people realize all the people who do burn wood correctly!


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## jatoxico (Jan 18, 2016)

Wood Duck said:


> The guys who burn clean go completely unnoticed.


Walked the neighborhood with my wife the other day and it was cold enough for any burners to have their stoves on. I was pointing out the stacks to her. Some better, some worse.

One guy in particular had his wood dumped into his driveway. Clearly green and fully tarped. Steady stream of smoke pouring out of his stack. When we got back and looked at ours you couldn't even tell I was burning but it was blazing away. Who do you think people will think of when they think of wood heat?


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## Ashful (Jan 18, 2016)

pen said:


> As far as a door to door to door campaign,,,,, that's just asking to get lead poisoning.


lol... not everyone lives in eastern PA.


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## rwilly (Jan 18, 2016)

Don't forget what people read in the media.
I saw an article that was saying that people who burn wood for heat are too cheap to buy real heat supply.
The article put wood burners in a real bad light. Made us out to be a bunch of Hillbillys.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

I can burn about a quart of gas in my chain saw and get half a cord of firewood. How can that be compared to burning only fossil fuels to heat my home? I know I am not including bar oil and the half a gallon of diesel for my loader but still... I am saving a lot of money burning wood.

How many people heat their home or shop to 75 degrees (or warmer) with wood and keep their homes at 68 degrees if heating with propane or fuel oil?


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## Jay106n (Jan 18, 2016)

Misconceptions, bad practices, green outdoor wood burners smoking up the town, wet wood, chimney problems, and the real work that goes into doing it right. Mix it all up and its a cluster


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## drz1050 (Jan 18, 2016)

Firewood sellers definitely don't help this matter. Up here, just about everyone knows that you're supposed to burn "seasoned" wood. Now define seasoned.

I only know of one seller that sells legitimately dry wood.. and it goes for ~800/ cord. He advertises it as "gourmet," I chit you not. All of the others split it in November and sell in December.

Have asked a few people about this. Since the trees were felled last year, that makes them seasoned in their book.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 18, 2016)

drz1050 said:


> Firewood sellers definitely don't help this matter. Up here, just about everyone knows that you're supposed to burn "seasoned" wood.
> 
> I only know of one seller that sells legitimately dry wood.. and it goes for ~800/ cord. All of the others split it in November and sell in December.
> 
> Have asked a few people about this. Since the trees were felled last year, that makes them seasoned in their book.




Forget the door to door...  and forget trusting firewood sellers..  we should just get/give out moisture meters and show people what they are burning. Knowledge is the most powerful weapon... not lead(a jab at Pen).


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## LocustPocust (Jan 19, 2016)

Many wood haters have legitimate beef, they hate the smoke and the stench. 

I'm not claiming to be the perfect neighbor, yeah my chimney smokes sometimes, but I'd say 95% of the time my stove is burning hot and clean with no smoke. I don't like the risk of a chimney fire and I don't like seeing half of my wood go up the chimney so I don't like smoking it. 

Besides me, there's another person on my street that burns wood. He smokes it almost 100% of the time. The next street over there are 2. They both smoke it almost 100% of the time. On the other street there's 4 or 5 that smoke it 100% of the time, one has what I suspect is a humongous wood furnace and the smoke that belches out of that some nights is unbelievable. There's one guy that I know burns wood and his chimney smokes very rarely. Where we live is kind of low and the smoke just lays in here some nights, especially when it's stormy and the air is heavy. 

I never smell my wood stove in my house, but my house always smells like a wood stove.. thanks to everyone in the neighborhood.


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## Firefighter938 (Jan 19, 2016)

I have a friend with an owb and he will only burn green wood. I offered to give him some dry stuff and he said no because it doesn't last long enough. 

I have an old "smoke dragon" but when I'm burning you really have to look at the chimney to notice. All you can see is the heat coming out of it with the occasional whisp of white smoke.


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## NTS (Jan 19, 2016)

Only ones around here to complain about smoke would be the jackrabbits and the coyotes, even so I only burn dry, seasoned wood. Nevada has the least amount of rainfall of all the fifty states, so maybe that helps. If I had close neighbors I would definitely do my best to reduce the amount of smoke from my wood burning. 

Before and after pics of three trees that will become firewood.to be burned in maybe 5 or 6 years.

Three standing dead






Skidding to processing area





All cleaned up. This is looking east and any chimney smoke would be heading this way most of the time.


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## Applesister (Jan 19, 2016)

Lol...wow...cant believe you have internet. After the three trees are gone, then what?
Okay, no one has mentioned elevation...air currents...wind travel. The generic wind currents surrounding their living conditions.
Smoke sits in clouds in the neighborhood...
Maybe you are in a valley?
I know this factor has nothing to do with correct and incorrect burn procedures...
But you know the saying...
Chit rolls downhill.
They wanted to put a coal cogeneration plant in NY but environmentalists in Vermont managed to shut it down.
Like chemicals being dumped into rivers by You Know Who...
Upwind and down wind.
As far as wood smoke, people can easily complain about what they see or smell but is that gonna be the real danger in our lives?
Or is it just something to bi***h about?


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## sportbikerider78 (Jan 19, 2016)

People are too stupid to realize that oil burners, wood burners and natural gas burners all release poisons into the air.  You just can smell the wood burners.


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## NTS (Jan 19, 2016)

"Lol...wow...cant believe you have internet."

*Me either   I live on the end of a dirt road, and always had plain old telephone service. Then the phone co ran fiber cable out on the main road about 2.5 miles away, and I had internet.*

"After the three trees are gone, then what?"
*
I have plenty of firewood in log form. I just hope that I live long enough to burn it all.*

"As far as wood smoke, people can easily complain about what they see or smell but is that gonna be the real danger in our lives?"
Or is it just something to bi***h about?'

*I don't know if complaining brought this about, and was justified or was it just some group that thought they new what is best for the citizens.  Either way I would not want to live anywhere near the city of Reno. Nv. or Washoe Co.*

https://www.washoecounty.us/health/programs-and-services/air-quality/know-the-code/index.php


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## Pennsyltucky Chris (Jan 19, 2016)

Firefighter938 said:


> I have a friend with an owb and he will only burn green wood. I offered to give him some dry stuff and he said no because it doesn't last long enough.
> 
> I have an old "smoke dragon" but when I'm burning you really have to look at the chimney to notice. All you can see is the heat coming out of it with the occasional whisp of white smoke.



Wow. The cognitive disconnect that your friend is living with would frustrate the heck out of me. 

And I also have an old smoke dragon, but my wood is so seasoned I only see smoke when I'm starting the fire. After that, it's just heat waves.


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## peakbagger (Jan 19, 2016)

I drive by a OWB installation in Maine, the OWB is right on the fence line with neighboring property and the house is on a hill with the neighbor house downhill about 40' away. The plume is frequently going downhill right into the neighbors house. I am amazed the downslope neighbor hasn't wrapped a chain around the boiler and hauled it away or inserted a few sticks of dynamite inside the fire box.


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## CenterTree (Jan 19, 2016)

Wood Duck said:


> There are lots of wood burners in my neighborhood, and a few of them manage to produce a constant stream of dark smoke from their chimneys. If I lived downwind from one of those guys I might be a wood heat hater too. *A few people doing wood heat improperly makes a much stronger impression than the majority doing it right. The guys who burn clean go completely unnoticed.*


It's like I tell my kids....   The cops don't pull over cars that are going the speed limit to reward them for obeying the law.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 19, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> So, why all the wood heater haters or is it just the outdoor boiler owners not running their stoves right?  I saw the facebook page/group "Wood Burning Neighbors say the Darndest Things", who are the stupid wood stove users that are giving us all such a bad name?  We should do a door-to-door campaign to help them out if they are that bad at burning wood...


I just went on that page. 82 tree huggers with nothing better to do. I do have to agree that there are a lot of bad apples that ruin it for us. I see a lot of people with the dreaded pile of rounds in the driveway, axe stuck in the round when they have enough split for a few days. Sadly I was "that guy" until I found this place. My neighbor was that guy last year, however I haven't seen any smoke from their chimney this year. There was one day last winter I swore the house was on fire. Maybe the reason for no smoke this year lol


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## woodsHAM (Jan 19, 2016)

Around my area it doesn't much matter , most everyone burns wood or coal for heat. I could see it being an issue if you lived in town and had a smoke cloud choking your neighbor but in my area people just mind their business. And as far as the post that mentioned wood heaters as being "too cheap to buy other sources of heat ". They are absolutely right on with that ! No way I'll pay for gas or oil while I'm able to provide my own heat at my own expense.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 19, 2016)

I guess I'm guilty of being too cheap also. Last time I filled the 2 tanks in the basement with #2 was 2009. I bought $160 worth this year just in case.i loaded my skid tank in the back of the truck and went to the 24 hr automated place I used to buy fuel for my last diesel truck. They have pump your own home heating oil


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 19, 2016)

Heating with wood and being more self reliant makes a person smarter but the people who heat with oil or propane or nat. gas don't see it that way. And my home is 10 degrees warmer than theirs and cost me so much less than what they are paying.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 19, 2016)

Plus it gives me that sexy cross fit body


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## LocustPocust (Jan 19, 2016)

Firefighter938 said:


> I offered to give him some dry stuff and he said no because it doesn't last long enough.



LOL


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## heavy hammer (Jan 19, 2016)

It was said earlier if you burn properly most of your neighbors will even know you burn wood.  Everything associated with wood burning lately seems to be how dirty and bad for the environment it is.  There are a lot of wood burners out there that care for the environment and other people's health.  The news likes to parade the negative of any thing anymore.  More people are interested in hearing about the problems with the world than the good.


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## Ashful (Jan 19, 2016)

rwilly said:


> The article put wood burners in a real bad light. Made us out to be a bunch of Hillbillys.


I'm a wanna-be hillbilly.  Scientist by day, tractor mechanic by night.

But, I do burn clean!



heavy hammer said:


> The news likes to parade the negative of any thing anymore.  More people are interested in hearing about the problems with the world than the good.


"anymore"?  I think it's always been the case.  "If it bleeds it reads" is not a new phrase.  The demographic has just shifted, where woodburners have once again fallen to the minority, and too many remember the horrid stoves and common burning practices of the 1970's oil crisis days.


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## billb3 (Jan 20, 2016)

some of it is media driven
wood stoves, cruise ships and guns are ruining their paradise dream
some people watch TV to know what beer and koolaid   to drink, frozen waffles to buy and what they should think.


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## Chimney Smoke (Jan 20, 2016)

peakbagger said:


> I drive by a OWB installation in Maine, the OWB is right on the fence line with neighboring property and the house is on a hill with the neighbor house downhill about 40' away. The plume is frequently going downhill right into the neighbors house. I am amazed the downslope neighbor hasn't wrapped a chain around the boiler and hauled it away or inserted a few sticks of dynamite inside the fire box.



This sounds exactly like an area in southern Maine a few miles from me.  There's a valley off the side of the road with houses pretty close to each other.  I've driven by and seen the OWB chugging like a freight train and the whole area was covered in smoke.  Absolutely ridiculous.


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## blades (Jan 20, 2016)

I've got an anti wood person some where in the overall neighborhood - calling the city and complaining the any stack of fire wood is a fire hazard- ya right with 8 aces of city owned un-kept conservancy behind me. One good bolt in the right place and a bit of time  and the right wind and my place would be toast. They are not equipped to handle a small forest fire. ( all ready happen once ( set by some kids) , I was lucky came home before things got really out of hand- most of you would have no idea how in-effective a garden hose really is)


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## jasonh (Jan 20, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> Heating with wood and being more self reliant makes a person smarter but the people who heat with oil or propane or nat. gas don't see it that way. And my home is 10 degrees warmer than theirs and cost me so much less than what they are paying.



My sentiments exactly.  NG and barrels of oil are cheap now, but for how long? No one knows.   

I always felt bad that my blaze king would smoke right into my neighbors house when I reloaded. it was normally just steam once the cat was active and humming along.  But on a day when there was a strong down pressure it would head right for their kitchen window.   They never said anything but I'd be pissed too. 

So I stopped burning wood this year because of a smoke issue and plan on putting a batch boiler in the garage, which is behind all the houses, or a heatmaster/p&m style at the back of my property in the alley way.   It used to be the old driveway for the homestead that turned into my development 60 years ago. Just depends on how much $ I can save to put down on something. 

By the way my wood is always c/s/s for 2 years before it gets burnt.....thanks to this site.


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## Oldman47 (Jan 20, 2016)

Too cheap, really? I have well over $3000 in my wood stove DIY install and even my winter heating bill is less than $100 per month using my geothermal system by itself. Figure maybe 4 months of wood heat per year and my chain saw alone cost 1 1/2 years of heating bills. December's bill this year was close to $50. If you have marginal insulation and conventional oil or "all electric" strip heaters maybe it is cheaper to burn wood. I expect to need to replace my stove in about 10 years so I might break even, give or take a bit. 
Wood does have other benefits though. My geothermal system really sucks during a power outage and it provides zero ambiance. If you don't enjoy cutting wood and someone else buys you a stove and your wood is free, sure you can make out burning wood. How many of us can meet all of those conditions?


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## sportbikerider78 (Jan 20, 2016)

I'm cheap.  I'm a 3rd generation German engineer.  I never had any decision in the matter.  We're all cheap.  

When people call me cheap, I just say "you should meet my father".


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## Jags (Jan 20, 2016)

Oldman47 said:


> I expect to need to replace my stove in about 10 years so I might break even, give or take a bit.


If that is the case, you are doing it wrong.  I don't know of any current stove that only has a 10 year life span.  Heck - mine has been running since 2002 with ZERO parts replacement (yeah, same old gaskets too).  I would expect many more years of service out of it.  Its just one more reason to "get the stove you want".  You might have to live with it for many, many years.

Note: and as dumb luck had it, in 2003 (year after install) there was a huge price increase in propane.  Stove and install paid off in less than 2 burning seasons.


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## hickoryhoarder (Jan 20, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> I burn wood to heat my home and shop. I know a lot of people who do. But I have to ask about the people and groups that are against it. I have seen a few posts or forums on this topic and have been looking at Heated Up! and other sites. I still think wood burned inside a combustion chamber is still better than burning in a pile.  I live in the Northeast part of South Dakota and we (what I have read) had zero trees hundreds of years ago. So, how can it be bad for us, to now burn wood? A lot of areas were harvested and clear cut for wood but I think we are so much better with burning wood now, than we were 100 years ago.
> 
> So, why all the wood heater haters or is it just the outdoor boiler owners not running their stoves right?  I saw the facebook page/group "Wood Burning Neighbors say the Darndest Things", who are the stupid wood stove users that are giving us all such a bad name?  We should do a door-to-door campaign to help them out if they are that bad at burning wood...


I find a lot of people who are too romantic about wood, and pretty many who are totally against it.  It's neither a terrible way to heat nor the best in every situation.  We live in the city.  Even if one lives outside the city in my county, it's a populated area.  Air pollution is real important. We saved up to get a new stove, for pollution reasons, and our basic rule is that the neighborhood won't suffer.  We can have a fire for four hours and no one knows.  My wife comes home and doesn't realize until she steps in the door that there's a fire.  That's our standard.  It's not as clean as our gas furnace but seems relatively clean.  We burn only wood that has sat in our sunny driveway for one or two years.  We lean toward smaller pieces, splitting them into quarters or smaller.  We make the fires hot.  That's not the answer to every situation, but it does satisfy any neighbors with worries.  Some cities have to ban use of fireplaces and stoves -- it can be a problem if a large enough number of people are burning in older stoves, or fireplaces.  If someone is against wood because they think it's reducing forests, they don't have much of a clue.  I don't find many people like that.


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## barmstrong2 (Jan 20, 2016)

D8Chumley said:


> Plus it gives me that sexy cross fit body


Right. My wife was commenting just the other day that my ab was looking quite pronounced lately. Yes, I have only one.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 20, 2016)

peakbagger said:


> I drive by a OWB installation in Maine, the OWB is right on the fence line with neighboring property and the house is on a hill with the neighbor house downhill about 40' away. The plume is frequently going downhill right into the neighbors house. I am amazed the downslope neighbor hasn't wrapped a chain around the boiler and hauled it away or inserted a few sticks of dynamite inside the fire box.



That would have been my father . . . well not literally . . . but he was of that mindset. Neighbor down the road/hill from him was always complaining about the smoke from the idling OWB . . . and dear old Dad didn't help things as he was always ready, willing and able to burn anything and everything in that boiler -- seasoned wood, green wood, trash, pallets, etc. He was not the best advocate for wood burners needless to say.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 20, 2016)

sportbikerider78 said:


> I'm cheap.  I'm a 3rd generation German engineer.  I never had any decision in the matter.  We're all cheap.
> 
> When people call me cheap, I just say "you should meet my father".



You're not "cheap" . . . you're "frugal". And if you're anything like my second generation German-American wife you can tell folks that you are "determined" and not "stubborn" and "methodical" rather than "obsessive." . . . It's all in the way you describe things.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm glad that heating with wood is somewhat labor intensive, if not, we'd have many more people doing it all wrong. I hear many say heating with wood is way too much work. I'd rather just flick a button. Good! Less of you the better.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 21, 2016)

Well said Pauly. I read somewhere years ago, burning wood isn't a hobby it's a lifestyle


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## heavy hammer (Jan 21, 2016)

It is a lifestyle.  Very few want to put forth the effort.  Like paulywalnut said just that much more for the rest of us.  There is nothing better than the heat from wood especially after freezing you butt off all day at work.  Sitting next to that stove has thawed me out after many long days.  It's worth it's weight in gold then plus some in my opinion.


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## Oldman47 (Jan 21, 2016)

I get that attitude at home. A new cant hook arrived on Tuesday and today I opened the package and put the hook onto the straight part. When I had it assembled my SO decided to tell me she had no idea where I would ever use it and couldn't I just roll a log with my hands. When I tried to explain that not everything is small enough to do that she started in with the "lumberjack" ribbing.  I got the same ribbing all summer when I went out to drop another tree along the fence line or split the resulting rounds. She really likes that thermostat in the hallway.


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## Paulywalnut (Jan 22, 2016)

D8Chumley said:


> Well said Pauly. I read somewhere years ago, burning wood isn't a hobby it's a lifestyle


Exactly D8. It's a spring summer job also, not just thinking about it in December


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## jb6l6gc (Jan 22, 2016)

I do love it. That said another month or so I'll be ready for nice weather. I usually get the winter blahs by the 1st of March.


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## nrc (Jan 22, 2016)

While I'm sure that some wood haters are motivated by legitimate concerns about wood smoke, I would bet that a lot of them don't really care how many grams per hour your EPA stove is putting out.   They have a notion that you're clear-cutting rain forests to keep your house at 82 degrees all winter.  They won't be happy until we're all living in state built eco-boxes living on our ration of algae paste.


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## Oldman47 (Jan 22, 2016)

nrc said:


> living on our ration of algae paste.


Soylent Green?


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## woodhog73 (Jan 22, 2016)

I don't know anything about outside wood burners. Are they rated in anyway? Is it just people burning green wood and smoldering it ?

I'm just curious since I know with inside wood stoves the newer EPA stoves do burn cleaner and produce less smoke overall even with the air turned down super low,  it's very hard for me to smolder wood inside mine. Very rarely is there much smoke outside my chimney even with the air on the lowest setting. Although my wood is dry.

Also in addition to the wood burner haters what gets me is when people get upset by others cutting down trees ! Personally I like to cut trees that are nearing the end of their life, or are dangerously leaning , in other words more justification to take the tree down,  etc. I do like my trees. but either way there is a thing called forestry management for a reason . If everyone got upset about good trees being cut , then there would be no wood to build new houses with ! I just don't understand how some people don't understand that .


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## Ashful (Jan 22, 2016)

Oldman47 said:


> I get that attitude at home. A new cant hook arrived on Tuesday and today I opened the package and put the hook onto the straight part. When I had it assembled my SO decided to tell me she had no idea where I would ever use it and couldn't I just roll a log with my hands. When I tried to explain that not everything is small enough to do that she started in with the "lumberjack" ribbing.  I got the same ribbing all summer when I went out to drop another tree along the fence line or split the resulting rounds. She really likes that thermostat in the hallway.


My wife, who grew up without any woodburning in the house, was like this for the first year or two.  By year three, she was to the point where I'd catch her extolling the virtues of woodburning to others when she thought I wasn't within earshot, but still give me a attitude about the time investment.  Now, fifth season, she's all-in.  She'll be the first to ask when I'm going to fire up the stoves on a cold night in autumn.


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## heavy hammer (Jan 22, 2016)

My wife used to be like that as well.  Now she loves burning wood so much for Christmas she bought me the stihl 2 in 1 sharpener for my 660 a new pack of rat tail files for the 660 and the 880, the stihl Orange ear protectors.  She even helps stack, only bad thing about it is she loves to burn locust.  Which is not a bad thing I just don't like when she throws in large rounds when it's 47 degrees out.  Take the good with the bad.


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## baseroom (Jan 22, 2016)

My tension release is, C S S.  The wood I scrounge is either already at the side of the road or going to be taken down by someone else who is going to chip it.  I burn efficiently. And BTW when the power does go out.  It is amazing how many people show up to stay warm and get soup and other food heated on the woodstove.  If some want to complain ......it's a free country......On this website We know the truth!


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## osagebow (Jan 22, 2016)

Riff said:


> Some folks I can understanding hating wood burners. There is a shop that is along a major road that has an OWB for heat. The smoke coming out of the chimney is thick, white, reeks of whatever potentially burnable material they filled it with. On a good day the smoke travels a couple hundred feet or longer, draping over the road and headed towards the local high school. Sure makes a bad impression on wood burners when you can't drive through the area without choking.


Sounds like the HS I work at.


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## Riff (Jan 22, 2016)

osagebow said:


> Sounds like the HS I work at.


Couple of hours down I-81 from Shenandoah.


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## D9H (Jan 23, 2016)

I guess I fall into the category of your stereotypical wood burner.
I have been called a hillbilly.
I do stay poor: $2,000 stove
                        $800 for the pipe
                        Couple thousand in saws
                       $1,600 splitter

Teaching the kiddos how to do things in this world without having to rely on the govt. or someone else: priceless


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## Ashful (Jan 23, 2016)

I do it because it makes me happy.  Burning wood costs me a lot of money, if I figure in the more profitable things I could do with my time.  But the whole process of collecting, processing, and burning wood is good for mind, body, and soul.

Kids?  Teach them to excel in school, choose a lucrative career, and they'll never burn wood out of necessity.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Jan 23, 2016)

Kids need to get outside and pick up firewood and sticks not just indoors with joy sticks and a mouse.


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## Ashful (Jan 23, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> Kids need to get outside and pick up firewood and sticks not just indoors with joy sticks and a mouse.


True... wasn't suggesting gaming was the favored alternative!  No guide to raising 'em, unfortunately, but there are examples to go by.  Like you said, self-reliance is the most important lesson... but we may have differing ways of teaching that lesson.  Either way, it is interesting to note that those politicians promoting various social programs are never the product of such programs, themselves.


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## D8Chumley (Jan 23, 2016)

Ashful said:


> I do it because it makes me happy.  Burning wood costs me a lot of money, if I figure in the more profitable things I could do with my time.  But the whole process of collecting, processing, and burning wood is good for mind, body, and soul.
> 
> Kids?  Teach them to excel in school, choose a lucrative career, and they'll never burn wood out of necessity.


My 18 year old son, who is a senior in HS, is out shoveling snow at an apartment complex with 2 buddies for some company, $12/hr cash. Some might remember me mentioning how he doesn't feel the need to help me with wood processing, and I've accepted that. To the point, he texted me an hour ago saying how much it sucks in this blizzard. My reply, stay in school and get a good job you won't have to do it any more. He applied to 9 colleges and got 6 academic scholarship offers of 50% or more. I'm thinking he will heed the old mans advice  for a change


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## Pennsyltucky Chris (Jan 23, 2016)

woodhog73 said:


> Also in addition to the wood burner haters what gets me is when people get upset by others cutting down trees ! Personally I like to cut trees that are nearing the end of their life, or are dangerously leaning , in other words more justification to take the tree down,  etc. I do like my trees. but either way there is a thing called forestry management for a reason . If everyone got upset about good trees being cut , then there would be no wood to build new houses with ! I just don't understand how some people don't understand that .



The people that know the least, always seem to make the most noise.


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## Blowingsmokeupyourchimney (Feb 5, 2016)

I just read this and what the heck! I have never heard of "black carbon" and that it is "estimated" that it is the second most significant contributor to global warming?  Where are these people getting this from?

Click below to read the pdf.

Quoted from the pdf - I found.

"Some people choose to burn wood in the misguided
belief that it is somehow “better” for the environment.
But scientists have recently discovered that particles
created by burning wood—so called “black carbon”—
are actually a major contributor to global warming.
They estimate that black carbon is the second most
significant contributor to global warming.
Many experts now believe that reducing or eliminating
wood and other biomass burning to be one of the easiest
and most effective ways to curb global warming."


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## DUMF (Feb 6, 2016)

When confronted by the purists ( solar panels, Prius's/Hubris's, heat pump fanatics, geo%$#&%) just sing the following thanks to Monty Python (full lyrics online):

" I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..................................."


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## St. Coemgen (Feb 6, 2016)

My chimney when burning:





Everyone else's chimney burning wood near where I live:




Ignorant people and bad apples, who burn green wood, spoil it for those that know better, and thus give all wood burners a bad name.


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## blades (Feb 6, 2016)

Most of them are extremely short sighted- by that I mean can't under stand that their precious panels , electric cars , and the like still  create more problems in their creation than us poor lowly stove guys and gals


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## St. Coemgen (Feb 6, 2016)

Blowingsmokeupyourchimney said:


> I just read this and what the heck! I have never heard of "black carbon"



Seen this sort of thing before. It is basically soot. What they fail to be honest about it that a diesel engines produces more than burning seasoned wood * ** ***:

18% Residential biofuel burned with traditional technologies
14% Diesel engines for transportation
10% Diesel engines for industrial use
10% Industrial processes and power generation, usually from smaller boilers
So if one "really" wants to reduce black carbon, stop using your computer/tablet/smartphone (manufacture and power generation) and buying stuff from Amazon (manufacture and transport  -- which is mostly transported by diesel trains/trucks or even worse ships using bunker oil). What are the odds non-wood burners would do either of those? 

Wood burning is just an "easy" target for those that are in denial about their own contribution to the problem.

* source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_carbon#By_source
** don't even get me started about VW's <cough>self reporting as an eco-green European company</cough> and their diesel emissions....
*** My tractor has a diesel engine, I am not anti-diesel as it gives more torque when such is needed, just suggesting this "black-carbon" issue needs to be placed in perspective, else it is just propaganda.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 6, 2016)

Ashful said:


> True... wasn't suggesting gaming was the favored alternative!  No guide to raising 'em, unfortunately, but there are examples to go by.  Like you said, self-reliance is the most important lesson... but we may have differing ways of teaching that lesson.  Either way, it is interesting to note that those politicians promoting various social programs are never the product of such programs, themselves.


Problem is you have one guy cuts wood all summer to heat his home and his neighbor just signs up for LIHEAP and the taxpayers pay to fill his oil tank for free. Begs the question which one is smarter. The more the Govt jumps in to fill every need and want the less incentive for young people to gather the ambition to excel above all that. Certainly not teaching self reliance but dependency.


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