# Barn stove install



## Danno77 (Dec 29, 2011)

I just acquired all of the chimney pieces I need to get my Woodstove going out in the barn, but I wanted to finish off the wall where it sits. The construction of this barn has that end wall built with 2x4s flat wise and spaced 24" on center. I wasn't impressed, so I mated another 2x4 flat wise and and am happier with it, but wasn't thinking about insulation at the time. Now that I'm looking to insulate it I'm finding out that 23" wide insulation only seems to come in 6.5 inch thicknesses. I don't want to make the wall any thicker than it is, because 1. It's a small room (8x12) and 2. I don't need a high r-value because it's just a mancave in a shed.

I hate buying the thick stuff and smashing it down, because of price and waste, do I have a better option?


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## 'bert (Dec 29, 2011)

how about having it spray foamed?  Here in Alberta its very expensive, but may be different where you are.  Otherwise you have to cut each piece.


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## Hogwildz (Dec 29, 2011)

Foam board or blown in are the only two other options I can think of at this point.


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## Danno77 (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah, sprayed in is not an option given cost and small size of job, but I did consider cutting some foam board in there and then getting a couple of cans of spray foam to seal the edges. I don't have a hot knife for cutting it, but I think I can use a handheld reciprocating jig-saw just as easily (but messier).


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## woodgeek (Dec 29, 2011)

Assuming there is no interior wall finish?

No code concerns as it is not a 'house'?

Then I would use poly-iso, 2" would be great....probably get R-10 for the whole assembly.

Don't need a hot knife--just a sharp utility knife and a metal yardstick.  The foil face is more fire resistant than XPS in an exposed situation.


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## Danno77 (Dec 29, 2011)

woodgeek said:
			
		

> Assuming there is no interior wall finish?
> 
> No code concerns as it is not a 'house'?
> 
> ...


I am going to finish the interior wall, but it's open framing until I do. Going to google poly-iso, don't recognize it by name, maybe a picture will help me. BRB.

Edit: got it. Not sure I need the foil face, but I see exactly what you are talking about now...


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## stefan66 (Dec 29, 2011)

can't you get r12 fiberglass---made for 3.5 inch cavity?
or how about tearing the 6.5?inch in half?


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## raygard (Dec 29, 2011)

â€™bert said:
			
		

> how about having it spray foamed?  Here in Alberta its very expensive, but may be different where you are.  Otherwise you have to cut each piece.



I was always a non believer in the spray foam.  Yet took the plunge and went with closed cell in the basement (not open cell).  Oo la la, what a difference.  Worth every penny (don't think it would be good around a chimney though)


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## daveswoodhauler (Dec 29, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Yeah, sprayed in is not an option given cost and small size of job, but I did consider cutting some foam board in there and then getting a couple of cans of spray foam to seal the edges. I don't have a hot knife for cutting it, but I think I can use a handheld reciprocating jig-saw just as easily (but messier).



Cutting the rigid foam isn't that bad to do. I just did my basement over and used R5 rigid, and would cut easily with just a utility knife. (I was thinking I would need a circular saw too, but it cut real easy with just a sharp blade and I sometimes used a drywall hand saw to cut out some funky corners) If you are going to use R10 or the 2 inch rigid, you can probably just get by with a utility knife to make the score of 1" or so, then use just use a sharp putty knife to finish it off. The stuff I got was 24" wide by 8' tall, so if your spread is 23 inches you shouldn't have much waste at all.
Good luck

Edit, just realized you have only 2 X 4 studs....so the R10 would be out as it would be a bit too wide.


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## backpack09 (Dec 29, 2011)

roxul probably would not be horrible to cut and make work.

Or use 3.5" unfaced fibreglass cut  and place (16" at a time up the wall), then put up poly as a vapor barrier.


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## Jags (Dec 29, 2011)

For the foam board you can just score it with a utility knife and then snap it like drywall.  It leaves a bit of a rough edge, but if you are going to "can foam" it in afterwards, it won't matter.


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## Danno77 (Dec 29, 2011)

Backpack09 said:
			
		

> Or use 3.5" unfaced fibreglass cut  and place (16" at a time up the wall), then put up poly as a vapor barrier.


I thought about that. Would take forever, though! I think I'm pretty set on rigid then spray foam to seal it in nicely. I'll let you all know how it goes. Hoping to make a trip to town tonight and then work on it over the next couple of days. I'll also be picking up hearth materials while I'm there.

Speaking of hearth... I think the flooring in this thing is going to be a roll of vinyl remnant. Should I lay the hearth and cut around it for the vinyl, or build the hearth right on it?

Hearth is going to be several inches thick of durock with a tile top. It'll be a 4'x4' square right up against a wall in the middle of the room (not a corner)


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## Highbeam (Dec 29, 2011)

I've installed tons of 2" foam. Mostly under slabs. I cut it with a circular saw and it works great. Even the 45 degree angle on the sides of slabs. You can either saw it or a nice sawzall makes good cuts too.

I've used both XPS and the much cheaper insulfoam EPS with equal results.


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## jharkin (Dec 30, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> The construction of this barn has that end wall built with 2x4s flat wise and spaced 24" on center. I wasn't impressed, so I mated another 2x4 flat wise and and am happier with it, but wasn't thinking about insulation at the time.



Danno...  Going off on a tangent... you live in an old Victorian right?, so Im guessing that barn is of similar vintage and thus is post and beam framed? If yes those studs are there only to provide a base to attach the sheathing to, and the extra reinforcement is probably overkill.

But i digress..


Another vote for the rigid foam board. The mass save guys did my knewalls in the attic with that stuff. You can cut the 2in with a utility knife, press it in place and then just use foam in a can to seal the edges. A lot more economical for DIY than full blown spray foam.


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## EatenByLimestone (Dec 30, 2011)

A local building supply has 24", 3.5" thick faced and unfaced insulation available.  I picked up a bunch of unfaced a few year ago for the family cabin.   

It exists, you might have to ask for it though.   

Matt


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## Danno77 (Dec 30, 2011)

I built the "barn" myself a couple of years ago. It's a 20x12 and gets most of it's structural rigidity from the heavy plywood siding.

Anyway, I was at Menards today and just got back. Was able to find faced R-13 that says right on the package that it's for 2x4 studs (3 1/2" thick).... So most of this thread is moot.

Going off from the original topic, though (maybe I'll change the title to barn stove install), I did have quite a time sourcing 4x4 sheets of Durock backer. Everyone who carries it only has 3x5 sheets and treated me like I was crazy for wanting anything else.

So, I bought 5 3x5 sheets of the stuff. I think I might break code on this. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being the worst) how bad would I be to have too little hearth on the stove sides? I can spend a good amount of time cutting these things and puzzle piecing them together, or I can use them as is. 

Also, I bought myself a bag of Roxul for miscellaneous use after tossing some in above the 30 for a blockoff. Should have lots left over, not sure where it will end up, but it looks to be a good product!

Edit: BTW, the manual says 4x4 minimum hearth and shows a picture of the stove with 8" on either side of it. When I measure the stove the body is about 23.5 and the stove top is about 25.5, so I'm not sure how they get 4ft needed for the hearth width. By my calculations I'm either 2 or 3 inches off on each side of the stove if I do it with the 3x5s cut back to 3x4...


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## woodgeek (Dec 30, 2011)

While we're moot, I want to change my answer....check the pricing on the FG batts closely.  When I was doing my attic, I found R-30 and R-19 unfaced were the same price per square foot!  The R-30 compressed to the thickness of R-19 drops to ~R-21 nominal, but should have much better performance at very low temps, resist compression, etc.  So, if the price is right, go with the thicker batts.


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## Don2222 (Dec 31, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> I just acquired all of the chimney pieces I need to get my Woodstove going out in the barn, but I wanted to finish off the wall where it sits. The construction of this barn has that end wall built with 2x4s flat wise and spaced 24" on center. I wasn't impressed, so I mated another 2x4 flat wise and and am happier with it, but wasn't thinking about insulation at the time. Now that I'm looking to insulate it I'm finding out that 23" wide insulation only seems to come in 6.5 inch thicknesses. I don't want to make the wall any thicker than it is, because 1. It's a small room (8x12) and 2. I don't need a high r-value because it's just a mancave in a shed.
> 
> I hate buying the thick stuff and smashing it down, because of price and waste, do I have a better option?



Hey Danno77

We have to compare notes! I am doing the same thing in my shed! The room is 10' x 10' so I do not have much room either. So I am going with a pellet stove which uses smaller pipe and I do not have to go through the roof. See pics below. Wall Thru with 908 casing!!

When I dug the 27' long ditch 3 feet deep for the electrical, I threw in the RG6 Quad Shield so a Color TV I got at a Yard Sale with Built in VCR for $10 works great on the shelf right over where the stove will be!! See pic

Can u post some pics too?

P.S. I still have to get more pipes while I finish installing the rest of the electrical outlets. Got 5 in now and only 5 more to go!

Click to Enlarge


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## Danno77 (Dec 31, 2011)

Here's where I am right now. I need to get a few more inches of length, so it looks like I'll be cutting two 24" pieces down to about 13-14" each.





Here's a shot of the cool fake wood floor. That's a Vinyl Remnant that is glueless, just cut it and lay it down. Has a cool texture to it. I like it. You can also see the hearth pad in this picture. I'll be shortening it up a little at some point. Then it will get tiles.





Here's a cruddy picture I just took of the outside chimney. Total height of this chimney is a little over ten feet. I'm going to try it, but I think I may need to add a little more height to it for a good burn.


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## Don2222 (Dec 31, 2011)

Hi Danno

Very nice!! That is a tall barn!! How high? You need alot of pipe??

P.S. What other goodies are you putting in the man cave room??

I also like the floor, very inexpensive but looks Great!


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## Danno77 (Dec 31, 2011)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Hi Danno
> 
> Very nice!! That is a tall barn!! How high? You need alot of pipe??
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments!

Let's see...
The barn is 12' at the peak, it was a pain to build on my own, in fact you can tell that i'm still working on it. The white trim isn't up yet, for one! Previous owners made a basketball court, so i have something of a poured concrete slab that it sits on. Actually, it was pretty busted up, so i made sure to build the barn with treated subfloor framing and an OSB floor. I went one step further and bought the heaviest plastic i could find in a sheet that was something like 30'x16' or so and laid it our on the slab, and warapped it up around the frame, so the underneath should be fairly sealed. That's the reason you see plastic behind the stove. I have been planning this mancave since i built the barn, so i threw some inslation under the flooring in that room to help keep the floor warm. I'm actually less worried about keeping the place warm, the stove is overkill. I'm more worried about the AC! There is already a window unit built in on the wall, and I tried running it this summer for the whole structure and it was useless. Should be fine for this little room.

The manual for this stove says I'm supposed to have 15' minimum chimney. 

Other additions to the room are a fridge that already sits in the corner awaiting it's Kegerator conversion. Will have a TV out there, too, but as of now electricity is through an extension from the house. I'd like to get electricity, cable, and Internet out there, too, so I'm interested in hearing more about what you ran and how.


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## pen (Dec 31, 2011)

This comes from home depot

http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I've used lots of r-13 insulation meant for 2 foot centers.  

I see owens corning has r-15 that fits in a 2x4 wall but I've never been able to find that anywhere.

pen


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## f3cbboy (Dec 31, 2011)

home depot carried r-15 that was meant for 24" ctrs.  that was some time ago, i haven't even noticed if they still do cause i haven't needed it lately.


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## Don2222 (Dec 31, 2011)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Don2222 said:
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Wow, I insulated the shed floor too. I used 1-3/8" rigid foam board with foil on both sides that sits on runners between the floor joists! We think alike! See pic below.

The electricians in this forum really helped me do the electrical the right way. Turns out this only one right way and plenty of wrong ways to wire a shed or barn. Bring out 240 to a sub panel on heavy wire like #10-3 UF-B so there is little voltage drop and all tools and lights will work without dimming!
See pics and detail right here! Great info!
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/84387/

When the electrical is done I will have 10 - 20 amp AC outlets.
Also since it took me a week to dig the 27 Ft trench 3 feet deep, I threw in cable tv wire, phone wire and alarm wire plus another electrical wire for a light switch in the house! Why not I only dug the trench once!!

I have internet through our Wireless router in the house so did not need a cable. A friend bought an internet hookup that work through the electric line from his house to his garage from Best Buy so that is really easy.

Good luck


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## fishingpol (Dec 31, 2011)

Nice work guys, you take sheds to the next level.  I wish mine wasn't so full of stuff.


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## Don2222 (Dec 31, 2011)

fishingpol said:
			
		

> Nice work guys, you take sheds to the next level.  I wish mine wasn't so full of stuff.



Thanks, well you could build another one.


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## Danno77 (Jan 1, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
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I think this is exactly what I'm planning on, but am considering conduit. I'm also exploring options for running water, sewer and maybe even NG out there. My shed sits down a slope from the house, so I'm exploring macerators. If I start burying other things, then I need to figure out the codes for where they can sit in relation to each other.


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

Running 12-2 tonight. Loads of fun. Just picked up my christmas present of 2x4s from sis. These will be shelves in a couple of days for the workshop portion of the barn.


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## Don2222 (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Running 12-2 tonight. Loads of fun. Just picked up my christmas present of 2x4s from sis. These will be shelves in a couple of days for the workshop portion of the barn.



Hey Danno

That is what I am doing also!! Just ran 12-2 to 3 outside ac outlets on the shed!! One by the shed door to do some messy wood cutting outside. Two other outlets under the soffits (Front and back) for the exterior rope lighting when I get it! The dome cover will keep the water out when they are plugged in!! 20 amp sockets for More Power of course!!

See Pics below.

BTW. Do you use the Green Grounding wires with screws and u shaped lug sold at Lowes?? I used 14 of them. Real Handy!
See 1st pic

Also what are you wiring tonight. I am interested since I am doing this stuff too!


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> BTW. Do you use the Green Grounding wires with screws and u shaped lug sold at Lowes?? I used 14 of them. Real Handy!
> See 1st pic


I'm not using that. Should I be? Not really sure what it is exactly! For grounding I thought I'd just be pig tailing the wires to the one post on the outlet.



> Also what are you wiring tonight. I am interested since I am doing this stuff too!


Just wire to boxes right now. About 6 outlets and a light switch and ceiling light. My goal is to get the wire ran so that I can put the insulation in the walls. I am not running the electricity out to the shed until spring/summer because the ground is starting to freeze.


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## Don2222 (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

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Well if you use metal boxes then those green wires make it easy to ground the outlet to the box. I have mostly plastic but the outside ones are metal and I have one metal inside box plus 6 metal junction boxes!

So if you wire the boxes then you can plug them into your extension cord for now?

The ground is really hard. I was lucky to get my feed in just before it froze up!

Good luck


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why do you have so many junction boxes?!?!


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## Don2222 (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Why do you have so many junction boxes?!?!



Well I just thought it would be easier to wire with the metal junction boxes at the top with ac and switched ac going thru them.

Then I run a wire from the box down to the outlet. If just the top outlet is on the switch, I run 12-3 to the outlet. This way the constant AC is on the white and black, then the red carries the AC to the top outlet when the switch is on.

I have two switches. One is for interior and the other is for exterior. Mostly the switch is for the LED rope lights I will be installing inside and out. The LED rope light last 20 years and is fairly cheap at Target department stores.

See Target Link
http://www.target.com/p/Philips-LED-Rope-Lights-9-Feet/-/A-13579211


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## SnapCracklePop (Jan 3, 2012)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Why do you have so many junction boxes?!?!



And no staples? Or has the NEC changed?

Nancy


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

PopCrackleSnap said:
			
		

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Yeah! Gotta have those staples. I've almost run out already!


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## Don2222 (Jan 3, 2012)

PopCrackleSnap said:
			
		

> Danno77 said:
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Yes, but I did not finish putting them in since I am not done wiring. Thanks


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## SnapCracklePop (Jan 3, 2012)

Good show. Habitat for Humanity will make a perfectionist out of anyone. I speak from experience.

Nancy


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## Fish On (Jan 3, 2012)

with all this work is there any zoning issues and what about your home owners insurance does not look like you will be bringing your lawn mower in there?

looks good though wish I had that much time on my hands.


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## oldspark (Jan 3, 2012)

"Well if you use metal boxes then those green wires make it easy to ground the outlet to the box"
 The outlets I buy have a grounding strap on the back of the outlet connected to the grounding screw so when you hook up to the ground screw the outlet is grounded, yours must not be that way correct?


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## Danno77 (Jan 3, 2012)

oldspark said:
			
		

> > Well if you use metal boxes then those green wires make it easy to ground the outlet to the box
> 
> 
> The outlets I buy have a grounding strap on the back of the outlet connected to the grounding screw so when you hook up to the ground screw the outlet is grounded, yours must not be that way correct?


That's the way mine have been, too!


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2012)

Theory being that by grounding the outlet that the box is also grounded through the mounting screws, right? The other way I've seen is for the incoming ground wire to be looped around a screw in the metal box before landing on the outlet's green screw. I've never seen a seperate ground wire added between the outlet and the box.

I just dug a 90 foot long, 2 foot deep trench, and set a 1.5" and a 1" conduit inside between the house and my new shed. The 1.5" conduit will hold the power line for the 60 amp subpanel and the 1" conduit will hold phone and cable. I've never buried empty conduit before so this will be a new one for me to fish wires through. I sure hope it works.


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## Don2222 (Jan 4, 2012)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Theory being that by grounding the outlet that the box is also grounded through the mounting screws, right? The other way I've seen is for the incoming ground wire to be looped around a screw in the metal box before landing on the outlet's green screw. I've never seen a separate ground wire added between the outlet and the box.
> 
> I just dug a 90 foot long, 2 foot deep trench, and set a 1.5" and a 1" conduit inside between the house and my new shed. The 1.5" conduit will hold the power line for the 60 amp subpanel and the 1" conduit will hold phone and cable. I've never buried empty conduit before so this will be a new one for me to fish wires through. I sure hope it works.



Good show Highbeam

How about some pics? We would sure like to see!! Nice to share our hard work!!

I just finished putting in 9 electrical boxes. Three on the outside and 5 on the inside of the new shed in 2 balanced 20 amp circuits.

Then I tried the 3 way switch in the house to see if it turned on the shed. BRPP @#@$$@%@# No!! I had a little miswire! LOL! Got the ohm meter out and checked the switch. The terminal I thought was the armature was not!! Why don't they just mark it?? Oh well nothing I could not fix!! So all set now just have to add the shed lighting! That will be the easy and most fun part


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## Don2222 (Jan 4, 2012)

oldspark said:
			
		

> "Well if you use metal boxes then those green wires make it easy to ground the outlet to the box"
> The outlets I buy have a grounding strap on the back of the outlet connected to the grounding screw so when you hook up to the ground screw the outlet is grounded, yours must not be that way correct?



Correct OldSpark

Just used blank metal junction boxes. See pics above. They did have a threaded hole for the ground wire. So the green ground wire had a screw on one end and a U shaped lug on the other end. In the metal junction boxes I just stripped off the u shaped lug and twisted all the ground together. However on the metal weather tight outside boxes, the wires really came in handy! I screwed the end into the box and the u shape lug slipped right under the ground wire I bent to go around the green ground screw on the duplex outlet. This way the box is grounded to the outlet on the outside boxes. The inside boxes are plastic so the only place I used the green wire is on the three way switch to connect the switch to the two ground wires. I hate trying to wrap 2 12 gauge ground wires on the small green ground screw they put on the 20 amp outlets!


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## Don2222 (Jan 4, 2012)

Fish On said:
			
		

> with all this work is there any zoning issues and what about your home owners insurance does not look like you will be bringing your lawn mower in there?
> 
> looks good though wish I had that much time on my hands.



Hello Fish On

No zoning issues here. I pulled a permit for the shed. The max size is 100 sqft if near the property line. My shed is just a little more than 1 foot away so 10'x10' max is what we built. I discussed with the town shed inspector very carefully about the wall hight using a prehung door with proper header and double top plate. He said that would be fine and meet the height restriction. So when the time came the permit was signed off real quick!! The electrical with the help of our really expert electricians on the forum left no stone unturned an inspected my pics posted!! That was really cool so the electric install meets all codes and man do I have POWER With 240 vac running out to the shed and a sub panel of 2 - 20 amp circuits I can run almost anything!!

Thanks again everyone!!

As far as the lawnmower goes I don't think there is a problem.


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## Highbeam (Jan 4, 2012)

Don2222 said:
			
		

> I hate trying to wrap 2 12 gauge ground wires on the small green ground screw they put on the 20 amp outlets!



You should have made a pigtail. Take those two ground wires and wirenut them together with a third 6" long piece of wire that attaches to the green screw on the outlet. I pigtail the leads  for all outlets now except for the last one on the run of course. That way only three wires need to actually attach to the outlet. I also upgraded to the fancier outlets that have the design where you shove the wire into the hole and then tighten the screw which clamps the wire internally. It is much easier and more positive than bending hooks in the wire. Most GFCI outlets use this system as well. 

I'll get some pics up in a new thread. I ordered 400 feet of 6 gauge copper wire last night. Ug. I'll be feeding a great big 125 amp subpanel with a 60 amp feeder. Should give me lots of room for breakers and flexibility for future upsizing of the service.


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## oldspark (Jan 4, 2012)

Never had a problem bending a hook and getting #12 wire on the ground screw on the outlet.


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## Highbeam (Jan 4, 2012)

Don was trying to do two #12 hooks on one screw which can get tricky. I was always successful in making loops too but after using the better outlets that don't require it, it would be hard to go back to hooking.


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## Don2222 (Jan 4, 2012)

oldspark said:
			
		

> Never had a problem bending a hook and getting #12 wire on the ground screw on the outlet.



Yes one # 12 on a ground screw but 2 is a pain. So that is why I used the green wires. I just twist the bare grounds on the green wire and then slip the u-shaped lug under the ground screw on the outlet or switch. Much easier!


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## oldspark (Jan 5, 2012)

Yea I missed the multiple ground wre comment, more than one and they want to squirm around when you try and tighten them.


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## Don2222 (Jan 19, 2012)

Hello

Well, I just finished my shed stove install  

See pics and detail here
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/88954/


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