# Energy Star my foot!  Dehumidifier sucking Kwh



## Black Jaque Janaviac (Sep 3, 2011)

I got a 65 pint GE dehumidifier this summer and it's got the little energy star logo on it.  Since plugging it in our Kwh useage went up 50%!!

My wife says she hear's it turning on-off then back on again quite frequently.  I know that's a good way to suck energy.  I would think an energy star appliance would have such a simple bug like that worked out. 

What do you fella's think?  Defective?  Take it back?  Or operator error?

It has some feature that will automatically shut it off in 4 hours, but then it won't automatically turn back on so I find this feature just about useless.


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## semipro (Sep 3, 2011)

You can only get so efficient with what basically amounts to a AC window unit with a bucket. 

What humidity setting do you have it set on? 

Ours is a big part of our usage in the summer too since we don't use AC.


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## laynes69 (Sep 3, 2011)

We have one that operates almost 24/7. It kills us on our electric bill. I think our problem with humidity is our leaky basement. I need to find and seal all leaks to reduce air infiltration. Ours is around that size maybe a hair bigger.


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## pybyr (Sep 3, 2011)

Yeah, I have an Energy Star one, too., but can't afford to use it these days with what it does to the electric bill.  

A heat pump water heater would accomplish dehumidification and at least net some useful side benefit.

I have to think that there has to be some way to have a dehumidifier that could be more efficient/ less expensive to run.  There are compressors out there such as for RV fridges that are far more electrically efficient.  Or maybe a fuel-powered absorbtion cooled dehumidifier if you had a vent for the exhaust.

I keep wanting to try a coil cooled by my endlessly-running 50 degree spring water, with a fan blowing through it.  At least then I wouldn't have the compressor draw; just have not gotten around to it nearing the top of the project list.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Sep 3, 2011)

had it set at 50% humidity since I seem to recall that being a recommended level.  

I know motors and compressors will draw a lot more amperage when starting up.   So when an appliance has these settings that cause it to "hover" right at that on-off stage the appliance will turn on and off much more frequently than is good.

That's the reason many appliances such as furnaces and such will have a "window" in which it will turn on and off.  In other words the furnace won't turn on until the temperature gets down to 65 then it shuts off when it gets up to 67 degrees.  It keeps the room comfortable but the number of starts and stops is kept to a minimum.

Why wouldn't an "energy star" appliance have the same kind of reasoning designed into it?  Say when you set the humidity for 50% it turns on when the humidity gets up to 52% then shuts off at 49%.  Or am I missing something?


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## jharkin (Sep 3, 2011)

Furnaces and boilers have a set # of cycles per hours because of the delay in getting heat to the registers/radiators. Its to prevent whats called "short cycling" where it runs too short and just heats up the plumbing for no reason. Its not really to save the start up load on the pumps/blowers. 

That inrush current when an electric motor starts only lasts for a fraction of a second. It really isn't wasting as much power as you think.

If the dehumidifier is using so much then you need to find out where the moisture is coming in.  No matter how efficient it is, if the dry air is bing constantly replaced with new moist air it will run and run and run.  you either have a lot of leaks letting in outside air or some other source of damp such as a dirt floor crawlspace or a stone foundation or such.  Find it and fix it and the usage will go down.

Also, 50% is ideal health wise, but if its a basement  or other rarely used area you can get by with a little higher.  I think you can go up to 65% or so before you start running a risk of mold and rot.


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## laynes69 (Sep 3, 2011)

We have ours set at 65. When it hits 60 the unit shuts off and when its at 70 it turns back on. Our basement has been dry as far as moisture is concerned, but its been extremely humid outside and I suspect thats whats causing our issues. Our basement on one half has the old boulder walls and the other half is cinder block which was put in during the 60's. Both sides have concrete for the floor. It seems almost impossible to seal all of our leaks, or even find them. I want to purchase the DIY foam kits and spray the perimiter where the beams meet the foundation and walls. The problem is I can't afford it right now. Our dehumidifier really helps.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 4, 2011)

Wow. I dunno what to say?!

How can a dehumidifier increase electricity consumption by 50%? What kind do you have? If a compressor is running, it should consume about 500 watts MAX. And if a compressor is running non-stop, there could be a bit of a moisture issue/leak. My humidity level is currently 55% in my basement. DOn't forget: humidity in relative to temperature. A dehumidifier works much better in warmer temps than in cooler ones.

I have mine running 24/7 since May. It is very easy on electricity. The fan runs continuously and only turns the compressor on when it will condense water. Therefore, it detects when to come on and off. It's a whirlpool and I love it. Here is the one I have:
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...nergy+Star+35-pint+Dehumidifier.jsp?locale=en

Andrew


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## semipro (Sep 4, 2011)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> had it set at 50% humidity since I seem to recall that being a recommended level.
> 
> I know motors and compressors will draw a lot more amperage when starting up.   So when an appliance has these settings that cause it to "hover" right at that on-off stage the appliance will turn on and off much more frequently than is good.
> 
> ...



You may find that raising the setting to about 65% will work to prevent  mold growth if that's your goal.  It would probably make a big difference in how long it runs.


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## daveswoodhauler (Sep 4, 2011)

Having the same problem as Black Jacque...my good dehumidifier crapped out 3 years ago, so I had to buy a new one.
The new one, also energy efficient....only has 3 settings....normal, high, and costant running.....seems like the thing runs 24/7 on humid days. I really liked my old one, as it had a timer, and I don't mind if the humidity is 60% in the basement....this runs seems to try to get the basement below 50% on the lowest setting..
I think I am going to look into getting some sort of timer, and that way I can run it for a few hours a day....just to keep the humidiy down, and not low enought to make beef jerky. lol


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## btuser (Sep 4, 2011)

I think the best bet is a heat pump water heater as others have mentioned.  Personally I think my dehumidifyer mostly heats the basement, making it harder for air to dump its moisture.  Not really what you think is going on.  It will run 100% if I let it, but sealing the holes behind every penetration in the drywall and leaving the glass on the walk-out door instead of putting the screen there in the Summer has helped a lot.


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## Swedishchef (Sep 4, 2011)

A dehimidifier does heat the basement. It puts out heat. 

Attempting to remove moisture requires a good difference in temperature: a dehumidifier works much better in a warm basement than a cold. The warm (say 23 degrees C) moist air will condense on the condenser in the dehumidifier much more easily than if the air temp was 15 degrees. Larger difference in temp, easier it is to condense.

Andrew


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## maverick06 (Sep 4, 2011)

Well, you should be able to find the number of watts on the back of it and figure it out from that. 

When I was shopping around for one the energy star model cost $30 more... but the power consumption was radically different! It clearly was  the right choice.... that being said, they are hungry, 500watts or so I think is about what they run at, going from memory here. 

Ive always thought the heat pump hot ware is a great idea, but the temperatures the pump runs really limits its usage. I think the model i was looking at would only run the heat pump above 60...65F... something like that. Which makes it great for a garage in texas, but horrible for a basement in PA... hope the technology gets better fast, its a smart idea! For that matter, too bad I cant let my AC dump heat into the hot water tank....


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## fbelec (Sep 5, 2011)

i to run a dehum in my basement. half the basement is living space. mine is not digital and it is just variable with the twist of a knob. i run it at a hair under normal. prob 60 %. any higher and the basement get warm. i go into different people's houses all the time and see them running their dehum at full and the basement is also about 85 degrees. it's humid outside right now here in mass. air cond running on the first floor at about 70 to 72 degrees. walk downstairs and i don't feel a difference. thermometer say's 71 and it's dry down here. if i don't have the air cond on upstairs the dehum runs much more and longer down here. humidity finds it's lower level so it all comes down the stairs to the basement. so if your trying to dehum a basement and not air condition the floor above, close the door to prevent the humid air from upstairs from coming down. try this. turn it down from trying to dry everything to a crisp. just down a little from where you have it now it will run less and you might not feel the difference. i kept turning it down until the room was a little cooler but not humid. but i am paying about 25 to 30 dollars extra a month.


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## woodgeek (Sep 5, 2011)

I would suspect the hygrometer--I don't think the hygrometers built into humidifiers/dehumidifiers are really precision instruments (e.g. not as good as thermostats), and often go way off calibration after a few years.  You might have got a lemon.  If you have a second, trusted hygrometer (doesn't everyone?), does it agree with the setting/cycling of this new unit?

I've got one of those suckas too, in my garage.  I fiddle with it alot to keep it running 'enough', but not all the time.

I think the energy star program has done a lot of good since it was started in the early 90s, BUT to qualify you just have to do something incrementally better than the norm before the program.  IN other words, if dehumidifiers prior to energy star cert used X kWh/pint on average, then any new unit that uses less than 0.9 X would get the cert.  The increment/prefactor is higher or lower depending on how much engineering room there is--reasonable attempts to make a more eff unit should get a cert.


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## raiderfan (Sep 5, 2011)

fbelec said:
			
		

> i to run a dehum in my basement. half the basement is living space. mine is not digital and it is just variable with the twist of a knob. i run it at a hair under normal. prob 60 %. any higher and the basement get warm. i go into different people's houses all the time and see them running their dehum at full and the basement is also about 85 degrees. it's humid outside right now here in mass. air cond running on the first floor at about 70 to 72 degrees. walk downstairs and i don't feel a difference. thermometer say's 71 and it's dry down here. if i don't have the air cond on upstairs the dehum runs much more and longer down here. humidity finds it's lower level so it all comes down the stairs to the basement. so if your trying to dehum a basement and not air condition the floor above, close the door to prevent the humid air from upstairs from coming down. try this. turn it down from trying to dry everything to a crisp. just down a little from where you have it now it will run less and you might not feel the difference. i kept turning it down until the room was a little cooler but not humid. but i am paying about 25 to 30 dollars extra a month.



Ha! You describe my basement in a nutshell!!  I have a 70 pint Danby Dehumidifier (Energy Star) hooked into a floor drain in my basement.  This sucker HEATS my basement!!  I have it set to 45% humidity, and I have gone down there to find 80*F+ temperatures, with the humidity reading 45 or less.  My original plan was to have it run continuously, but have resorted to just running it at night and shutting it down in the morning.  I would air condition my first floor, and that would make the basement feel even that much warmer when going down there (like you, 1/2 my basement is set up as living space). 

I have an older house, with a stone foundation, so I just figured my basement wouldn't be much of a summer hang out anyways, because it never seemed cool down there compared to other basements (however, I've always had a dehumid running since ive been here).  I've just read that mold and mildew can grow at 55% humidity levels, so never wanted to set the thing to anything higher than that.  So leave it at 45%.


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## cygnus (Sep 5, 2011)

I've got mine hooked to an appliance grade timer rated for this type of equipment.  I set to max. and use the timer to turn it on or off 2-3 times a day.  I vary the length of runtime with the seasons.  For some weeks in the winter I simply unplug it since the humidity is so low in the basement anyway.  I have a humidity meter down there to be sure it's within 50-60%.  It uses some juice but it's a small fraction of my usage.  Equal to a small AC for a 700 sq ft basement.


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## maverick06 (Sep 5, 2011)

careful, at 45%, if you open the windows for a short while the basement will fill up with humid air. If fine to keep it at that level, perhaps overkill, but thats ok, just be aware, humidity moves fast through the house. I only run my dehumidifier if the rest of the house is sealed up. And I keep mine set at 65% (on at 60, off at 70). I also keep it running in the winter, and let it hold the basement at 55%, it takes almost no effort, and its nice to have it that dry in the winter! If you have it dunp the water into the sump, or some drains, a modest amount will evaporate back out nullifing the process. As with everything, everyone's experiance will vary.


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## raiderfan (Sep 5, 2011)

maverick06 said:
			
		

> careful, at 45%, if you open the windows for a short while the basement will fill up with humid air. If fine to keep it at that level, perhaps overkill, but thats ok, just be aware, humidity moves fast through the house. I only run my dehumidifier if the rest of the house is sealed up. And I keep mine set at 65% (on at 60, off at 70). I also keep it running in the winter, and let it hold the basement at 55%, it takes almost no effort, and its nice to have it that dry in the winter! If you have it dunp the water into the sump, or some drains, a modest amount will evaporate back out nullifing the process. As with everything, everyone's experiance will vary.




The basement is always sealed up, and the door to the basement (from my 1st floor) is always shut, but i guess i do sometimes leave my 1st floor windows open when going to bed, to let the cooler night air get in -- to have it nice in cool in the house in the a.m. when getting up.  Guess I'll have to shut those when going to bed, then.


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## fbelec (Sep 5, 2011)

raiderfan said:
			
		

> maverick06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i think it would be cheaper to let cool are in and pay for the one dehum than put on the air cond.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Sep 7, 2011)

Part of our problem is probably the gas drier we have in the basement.  I'm sure the exhaust causes a negative pressure which draws in moist air.


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## ssupercoolss (Sep 8, 2011)

i cant tell you how many dehumidifiers i have gone through.  for some reason the 15 yr old one in my basement keeps chugging along every year, however it makes the electric meter spin like crazy.  i have a crawlspace in my mountain house that needs a dehumidifier to keep everything in check down there.  so far in the 6 yrs i have owned the place, i have put a new one down there every two yrs.  i dont understand what it is about my crawlspace that eats dehumidifiers.  anyways.....moving on. i recently did a ton of research on dehumidifiers because any dehumidifier i put down there struggled to keep the humidity level under control, without running 24/7.  i bit the bullit and bought a commercial dehumidifier.  best investment i ever made.  it seems they are built to last, but come with a hefty price tag.  i strongly recommend the ebac triton or neptune.  basically the same model from what i can tell....one has wheels and a pump, the other no wheels and gravity discharge.  the ebac has been able to keep my crawlspace at 50%, for less than what the whirlpool 50 could ever do.   really worth spending the extra money.....which i know can be hard to do, but honestly they are so much better than the happy homwowner junk i have bought at the big box stores.  two side notes about the ebac's....they claim like 2.5 running amps, but using my kill-o watt, its really more like 4.something amps.  also, i dont think most of them come with any humidity control.....you will need to get a dehumidistat for them.  they are really designed for commercial restoration.  i'm saving up some more bucks to get another ebac for the basement in my primary home.  

once you go "commercial", you'll never go back.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks for the tip futureboiler.  I'll keep that in mind when this one dies.

Upon closer inspection I've found that my GE dehumidifier does turn on at 70% and shut off at 55%.   The problem is that I stood there and watched it the moment it turned off and I didn't even finish the 1/2 beer that I was drinking before the humidistat climbed from 55% to 70%.  Not exactly rocket science, but I'd say the time from turn-off to turn-on was between 5 and 10 minutes.


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## midwestcoast (Sep 9, 2011)

I found that the humidistat on the model I bought this spring read way high. It was running more than expected to keep 60% so I put a separate hygrometer down there & it read more like 45%. Big difference!  I now set that thing at 75 or 80% and it holds around 60.  :roll:


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## egclassic (Sep 10, 2011)

50%?
I just bought an LG dehumidifier this year when I noticed "white mold" on nearly every surface in my finished basement. I have the worst possible situation in my basement, a 75 gal Aquarium and a sump pit.
I run the dehumidifier on low with the four hour timer(4on/4off) and have not noticed any substantial increase in my electrical usage. I keep the basement at around 50-55%


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## Renaissance (Sep 12, 2011)

I wouldn't consider running one along side air conditioning.  The A/C does a fairly good job of drying out air.  Also, if you look at it as the 500w space heater it is, it's not hard to see why your bills are higher.  You're paying once to generate that heat, and (roughly) two more times to remove it from your home.  Unless you can make good use of that heat, a more efficient approach might be moving that damp air to where your A/C can pick it up.


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## woodgeek (Sep 12, 2011)

Renaissance said:
			
		

> I wouldn't consider running one along side air conditioning.  The A/C does a fairly good job of drying out air.  Also, if you look at it as the 500w space heater it is, it's not hard to see why your bills are higher.  You're paying once to generate that heat, and *(roughly) two more times* to remove it from your home.  Unless you can make good use of that heat, a more efficient approach might be moving that damp air to where your A/C can pick it up.



Actually the elec cost to AC pump the heat outside should be less than half the cost (COP>2) to generate it in the first place, not double.


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## thewoodlands (Sep 12, 2011)

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> I got a 65 pint GE dehumidifier this summer and it's got the little energy star logo on it.  Since plugging it in our Kwh useage went up 50%!!
> 
> My wife says she hear's it turning on-off then back on again quite frequently.  I know that's a good way to suck energy.  I would think an energy star appliance would have such a simple bug like that worked out.
> 
> ...



We unplugged ours, started a few small fires (woodstove is in the basement) problem taken care of plus it's less expensive burning a few splits.

zap


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## Renaissance (Sep 12, 2011)

> Actually the elec cost to AC pump the heat outside should be less than half the cost (COP>2) to generate it in the first place, not double.



Right... I got my numbers flipped.


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