# Anyone heard of a Waterford 103?



## heatherd

Hello, I'm new here and I have a stove in my house that arrived with no information.  It was free.  So I don't really know anything about it.  the only markings I see are on the front upper left, Waterford 103.  I've searched google for this and found next to nothing, other than someone selling one for $550.
Does anyone know anything about this stove?  Coal? Wood? Age? Make? 
Thanks a bunch for any help.
> Heather


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## seaken

Not sure. When we were selling the Waterford line back in the early '90s we had a 104 Mk-II. It was a small wood stove, similar to the Jotul 602 in design. Maybe the 103 is also a small wood stove? Unless it has coal grates, in which case it may support coal.


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## webbie

I've heard of this and seen it. Wood stove - double front doors with a relatively modern look. Some parts of it may even be double wall - pretty large in size. I think it may have taken an 8" pipe, which is a big down side. Parts may be available, but not easy (other than glass and gasket, which are readily available).

Personally, I would take a pass on it at the price.


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## thechimneysweep

The 103 was a wood-burning "Fireplace Stove" from the mid-80's.  It had two front doors with optional glass panels (but no airwash), and was designed to be burned with the doors open for open-fire ambience, or closed for a (somewhat) controlled combustion burn.  The draft control was kind of unique.  Instead of a turnscrew or slider, it had a lever that could only be moved to four preset positions.  

There was no baffle plate of any kind, just a built in stovepipe-style damper in the 8" flue collar.  Nonetheless, this model marked Waterford's earliest attempt at high-tech secondary combustion.  Incoming air would flow between the outer cast iron shell and an inner cast iron liner, then squirt out through a single row of tiny holes that spanned the tops of the side and rear liner plates just above door height.  Waterford claimed these "secondary air ports" would, by injecting pre-heated air into the upper part of the firebox,  cause unburned exhaust gases to ignite and provide more heat (sound familiar?).  In the absence of an insulated baffle system, this may or may not have worked; all I can say is we never saw any secondary fire like that produced in today's EPA approved designs.

This fireplace / stove burned HOT (98,000 btu/hr), and had pretty extreme wall clearances: 36" rear, and 40" side to combustibles.


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## seaken

Wow. Okay, quite a bit different than the 104 Mk-II, which was a small stove , about 20,000 BTU/hr.


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## heatherd

That photo is certainly my stove.  And it does burn really really hot.  In fact, I'm nervous to load it up before bed because even with the air intake and the damper "closed," it rages.  I may need to replace the gaskets so air doesn't go in through the front.  My pipe comes out of the back and then up the chimney, not the top like the picture.  And I'll go check the clearances I currently have.
How hot should I let this stove get?  Is there anyway to get literature about this particular model, or is that a lost cause?


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## fraxinus

I think you're right to be nervous about loading up the stove before leaving it for the night. I'm well aware that many, many people do this, but I've never been comfortable with the practice. Far better, it seems to me, is to make sure there is a good bed of coals, then shut down the air intake(s). While the stove will not radiate maximum heat during the night, you'll find still hot coals. These will quickly bring the stove back up to operating temperature when you add wood.


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## heatherd

I checked the clearances and found that on one side the table was 30" and on the other the chest of drawers was 24"! and it was HOT!  Is this a situation where I should only run it when I'm home and awake?  Or maybe try to move it into the basement where there is plenty of clearance?  I'm really trying not to add to the heating bills, but we (my children and I) are living in a 1850 house, and I'm at a loss of the best course of action.  Especially now that I realize that the stove I have, where I have it, isn't safe.  I grew up in a house with a wood stove, but my father always made sure it was safe, I just started fires, cleaned ashes and loaded wood.  
Thank you for any advice.
> heather


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## begreen

The first thing to do is see if the stove has any leaky gaskets. They can make a stove burn much hotter than it should. A stove thermometer will also help. We don't know much about how you are burning the stove or what "hot" means. Having some actual temps will help. But until you are familiar with the stove and know it is safely installed and operating correctly, extreme caution is the best advice. You need to honor the clearances that Tom posted for the stove. Otherwise, don't burn it. Can you post a picture of the stove installation? That would help. 

Moving the stove to the basement will introduce a lot of problems. The best fix would to get a modern stove with closer clearances. There are nice good heaters that can be much closer to combustibles and not be dangerous. Can you describe a bit more about the house size, the room where the stove is in and the first floor plan?


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## ketoret

first posting, so give me a smile...

i'm also looking at an old waterford 103 (availability of UL or EPA woodstoves here is, well, it just ain't), and with all the talk about the heat it throws out, i'm wondering if it would be a good idea to build a brick/masonry enclosure for it, both to protect the surroundings and to both moderate and prolong the heat.  you can tell i'd really like a masonry stove, but that ain't here neither.

is that a good idea?


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## begreen

It should be ok, as long as a reasonable clearance to combustibles is still maintained outside of the masonry enclosure. I'm not sure how many days use it would get in Israel. Is this for a large home?


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## ketoret

yeah, well, no, not for western standards.  i have a fairly open kitchen-dining room - living room area, i'd say roughly 80-100 sq meters, with fairly high ceilings (need a fan up there, for sure), with the chimney running up through our master bedroom (such as it is).  right now we're using a kerosene heater, which is expensive and does not heat the house well.  i run a water pipe through it to help heat up the water, which helps.  we live up in the hills, so it gets chilly, and the houses are not so well insulated as in the west.  like, for instance, right now i am freezing!

another question, (since you're being so helpful, for which i tip my hat to you) or perhaps you could direct me to a relevant thread:  we are observant jews and do not fool with fire on the Sabbath.  I mean, nothing.  When the door to the stove is closed on friday evening, i won't touch it til saturday night.  should i throttle down the air intake for a slower burn, or is that just going to make a messy, smoky, inefficient burn?  what's my best option (aside from an electric heater on a thermostat) for keeping warm during the day?  i mean, what's the best way to see my stove on friday?

thanks for your advice - i am a complete noobie in this.  i'm working my way through the informational files, slowly slowly.


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## Gooserider

ketoret said:
			
		

> yeah, well, no, not for western standards.  i have a fairly open kitchen-dining room - living room area, i'd say roughly 80-100 sq meters, with fairly high ceilings (need a fan up there, for sure), with the chimney running up through our master bedroom (such as it is).  right now we're using a kerosene heater, which is expensive and does not heat the house well.  i run a water pipe through it to help heat up the water, which helps.  we live up in the hills, so it gets chilly, and the houses are not so well insulated as in the west.  like, for instance, right now i am freezing!
> 
> another question, (since you're being so helpful, for which i tip my hat to you) or perhaps you could direct me to a relevant thread:  we are observant jews and do not fool with fire on the Sabbath.  I mean, nothing.  When the door to the stove is closed on friday evening, i won't touch it til saturday night.  should i throttle down the air intake for a slower burn, or is that just going to make a messy, smoky, inefficient burn?  what's my best option (aside from an electric heater on a thermostat) for keeping warm during the day?  i mean, what's the best way to see my stove on friday?
> 
> thanks for your advice - i am a complete noobie in this.  i'm working my way through the informational files, slowly slowly.



Sounds like the only real solution for the Sabbath is to get a modern stove, probably a catalytic, with really long burn times (such as a Blaze King) and stuff it on Friday, then turn it down to a low level...  (BTW, I know the rules prohibit MAKING fire, I thought there wasn't a problem with FEEDING an existing fire?)  Otherwise, throttling down a pre-EPA or a non-cat stove to the point where it will give you a long enough burn time is probably going to lead to major smoke / creosote production.

Gooserider


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## bcnu

Here's your smile Ketoret.  Thanks for posting your questions.  Good to get something a bit different.  What kind of wood do u burn?


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## webbie

Interesting....this is the first thread in 12 years on Sabbath burning!

I think Goose is right in that the only stove that would likely burn 24 hours is a larger firebox catalytic stove. So you will have to decide exactly where you want to compromise....the electric heater for the one day (actually less because the stove will burn 8-10 hours after sundown on fri) might end up being the best solution.

Another idea is to either purchase or "create" a stove with masonry mass that holds the heat for a number of hours afterwards. There are soapstone units made in Europe (look at Tulikivi) which have the benefit of a large mass. You can also create your own by building the stove into some sort of masonry alcove. This will soak up heat when the stove is running and then release it later. There are even special compounds (salts) that are "phase change" and store much more heat per pound...they can be built into a wall etc.

But a masonry mass, insulated from the exterior, provide a decent low cost storage mechanism. 

If wood burning was a "big" thing in Israel, I suppose various solutions would be on the market. Here, for instance, is a "stove controller" that a New England inventor recently came up with:

http://www.inveninc.com


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## thechimneysweep

Thinking outside the box here, have you considered a "Shabbas Goy"?  As I understand it, you're not allowed to instruct a non-Jew to do work for you on the Sabbath, but are allowed to benefit from the work of others not directly requested by you.  What if you were to set up a regular Saturday afternoon chess game with a non-Jewish friend, and, when the fire dies down and it starts to get chilly, invite him to make himself comfortable?


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## webbie

Well, it's Sabbath now, so we'll have to wait til saturday night for more dialog!


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## ketoret

fast thinking, web.  i just got back from spending shabbat in jerusalem (i work with high school students from the states).

goose - on holidays like rosh hashanna i could stuff it during the day (i think.  adding to a fire is no problem - i know folks who grill on r.h.) but on shabbat, i can't fool with it at all.  i mean, the biblical law is that there should be no fire burning in your habitations on shabbat, but the sages said what!  eating cold food in the dark! what kind of a happy day is that!  so you can do anything you want before shabbat to make shabbat nicer, even to the point of setting timers for electrical heaters, lights, etc.  but during shabbat - one cannot create or really even change one's physical environment - the idea being one is of creation and not a manipulator of creation.  Aren't there pellet stoves that feed automatically?  That would work, but, of course, pellets are not available here....

sweep!  no fair!  you've been peeking in the talmud!   ;-)  technically, of course, you are right, but first of all, i find the idea of a shabbes goy distasteful, and second of all, outside of a few cities and towns, jews and non-jews (98% or more of whom are arabs) live in separate communities.  my village is a tiny li'l thing on a hilltop, all jewish, all religious.  there is an arab village about a mile or two away, but you get the idea.  a little integration wouldn't hurt, but we'll have to wait until their are friendlier relations between the jews and non-jews here (quickly, in our days).  

web, since a neighbor handed me a informational packet from tempcast about ten years ago, i have been non-stop dreaming about a masonry heater.  I think it's just too pricey for me and although I have fascinated by stories of DIY folk who have designed and made their own, and generally speaking, I'm mostly too dumb to be afraid to try things myself, I don't want to put my family at the mercy of my amateurism.  But the idea of building a masonry envelope around the stove, that's something I could do, and would probably even enjoy it.  That's why I thought if the waterford puts out so much heat, it might be a good stove for me - heat up that mass all Friday, stuff the stove towards sundown, set it at a moderate burn, and hope for the best.  have you seen any photos of such a masonry alcove?

my concern for the stove i've found is that it is pictured sitting outside (don't know yet for how long), and rusty.  i'm going to travel up to see it next week.  any advice you could give me for evaluating it would be very welcome.

thanks for your help


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## begreen

If you are a first time woodburner and not a tinkerer, don't bother looking at a neglected stove. Not to be unkind, but you are likely to be unexperienced and unqualified to judge whether the stove has good value or is repairable. And even if it is, who is going to do it and at what cost? Get a new stove that you can enjoy and rest peacefully at night with. 

I wonder if you can get a Hearthstone from Industrias Hergom of Santander, the casting foundry in Spain where Hearthstones are made? Does anyone know if they do assembly in Spain of Hearthstones? Tom?

Also see about getting a Jotul, Franco Belge, Dovre, Nodica, Fugar, Bronpi, Edikamen, etc. or if on a tighter budget maybe one of the new Spanish steel stoves with a good secondary combustion system.


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## ketoret

BeGreen, unqualified is my middle name, and inexperienced is a close relative.   I do have a talented welder in my community, but what I guess I really need is someone competent to evaluate the stove. And that, I don't have.  I tend to agree with you that, in my position,  I'd be better off with a new product.   There are other con$ideration$, too, if you catch my drift.  But I think it may be wise to put this waterford on hold til i find out more information about what my options are in europe.  thanks for your input.


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## Gooserider

Well there is an article in the Hearth Wiki on evaluating used stoves, but I'm not sure how much good it would do you.  

I'm actually somewhat surprised that you would need much heat in Israel - the one time I was there (business trip, I used to work for Comverse Network Systems) it was a lot warmer than New England was at the time, and the folks we were working with in Tel Aviv said it stayed pretty comfortable all year round.  The small part of the country I saw (Tel Aviv and a day trip to Jerusalem) was pretty, but it looked like you might also have a problem with not having a big wood supply...  How much real need for heat do you have?

Gooserider


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## ketoret

yeah, i saw that article on hearthwiki, and it's kind of not helpful - this simply might be an area where experience trumps.  

your right about tel aviv - it's like southern florida in the winter.  but i live up in the hills and it can get chill - last night was in the upper 20's - not new england, but our houses are not wrapped either.  believe me, if i didnt need the heat, i'd just get me some old piece of junk to make for romantic evenings and roast marshmallows.


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## ketoret

man, am i clueless!  my neighbor down the street has a waterford 103! i thought the photo looked familiar!


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## intergraleevo

Hi there.  The house I'm about to move into has one of these, a Waterford 103, set into a big old fireplace.  
Sounds like I won't need to open up much, a bit of a rager by all accounts!
I took quick look at it whilst viewing property - inside looks just like a flat plate - is it supposed to have a grate in the bottom for the ash to fall through into - and so I can burn coal? 
Surely this plate, even with just wood will get damaged and burn through - even more so if its a very hot and quick burner?
Can i buy a grate which will fit this so that I can then burn coal in addition to wood in it?

Many thanks,

Chris


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## begreen

Sounds like ketoret knows of a good parts stove, though Israel is a bit far to travel. 

Maybe search for stove parts in Google UK or IE?

Here is a starter:

http://www.waterfordstanley.com/50_459.htm


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## wmfeagle

I have one with steel doors, no glass, been in service 25 years. It has a provision to pipe in outside air, and a plate for directing the flow of room air over the hot vertical surfaces.


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## chrisbell

For anyone asking about these stoves (Waterford 103, I recently acquired one and it came with the 4 page manual.  I suspect there are many ore stoves out there on their second, third or fourth owners, w/o the manuals that came w/ them.  I'll try to get some help to scan it and make it available.  It has 20 times the detail that the old Morso 1-B manual had.  Chris Bell


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## wmfeagle

Chris, could you e-mail me a copy? nicelots@aol.com. Mine heats a 4,000 sqft house in the snow belt, still use gas heat, but with  a fan and overhead fan it shuts the gas furnace off

wmfeagle


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## webbie

chrisbell said:
			
		

> For anyone asking about these stoves (Waterford 103, I recently acquired one and it came with the 4 page manual.  I suspect there are many ore stoves out there on their second, third or fourth owners, w/o the manuals that came w/ them.  I'll try to get some help to scan it and make it available.  It has 20 times the detail that the old Morso 1-B manual had.  Chris Bell



I will gladly scan any manual, post it here in the wiki, and mail it back to you or email you electronic copy (or both)....

So let me know if you want to take me up on this and I'll PM my mailing address.


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## wmfeagle

Sounds good, e-mail works for me, nicelots@aol.com

thanks

Bill


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## chrisbell

I'll get my son's help(probably late tomorrow) on the scanning business and send this to anyone who's interested or make it available thru a link.  I've lots of experience w/ things I bought used w/ no instructions or manuals, and I know how nice it is to find one a keystroke away, for free!  Chris


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## sarah

hi chris-

could you email me the manual for the waterford 103 that you mentioned?  i've just inherited one that i'm in love with, but am dealing with my local building inspector who wants to refer to the manufacturers specs.....it would help so much to have the paperwork from the stove.

thanks
sarah
bikergeek2u@hotmail.com


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## schofieldr

Hello
I have been using a Waterford 103 for some twenty years as secondary heating (although its output is huge and probably would heat the whole cottage ) and i bought it secondhand . i love it ,it is just HUGE  in all ways , it burns anything logs coal (with fitted basket (least efficient in this mode ) peat or anything else combustable and is a joy to use. when i first moved into the cottage ( 3 knocked into one . wooden beamed and all that ....Emglish style ) because of damp problems i burned it day and night for some 18 months until it dried out the building . 
just a word of warning it does throw out a lot of heat (somebody said up to 60,000 btu) and so mount it on stone base and away from combustable materials .....mine in in huge Cheshire brick fireplace with Yorkstone base and roof then out into external cement lined flue encased by Cheshire brick again. 

If i can help in any way contact me via this means and i will provide a contact number.


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## schofieldr

hi Chris,
If you ever did manage to scan that manual , would you send me a copy to

rogerschofield@btopenworld.com

Thank you

ps did these stoves originate in Ireland  or foundary areas of England ?

regards

Roger


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## brietta

chris beel read your info for waterford 103 stove dated 2009 could you email me manual briettajea@yahoo.com  thank you


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## zxcv

i have a waterford 103 with 4 pipes for intake outtake  in the back. What are they for? Can i heat radiators through them?Could Chris e-mail a manual?Our e-mail adress is chavachia@gmail.com Thank you-Yakov


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## Butchman

If anyone does have that Waterford 103 manual in e-mail form, please send me a copy at petevg@optonline.net  I just purchased one for my basement, approximately 1400 sq ft. Sounds like it will have no problem heating the area. What's the issue with the 8" outlet?


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## Gooserider

Butchman said:
			
		

> If anyone does have that Waterford 103 manual in e-mail form, please send me a copy at petevg@optonline.net  I just purchased one for my basement, approximately 1400 sq ft. Sounds like it will have no problem heating the area. What's the issue with the 8" outlet?



Two potential issues - one is whether or not a stack with a smaller cross section will be able to provide enough draft to power the unit...  The second is code related - it is generally a code violation to hook up a stove with one cross section size to a stack with a smaller cross section, UNLESS there is a specific mention in the manual that it is OK to do so...  Obviously not a problem if you have an 8" stack to begin with, but if not...

Gooserider


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## Butchman

Thanks Gooserider. Hopefully someone has a manual that they can e-mail me to get those specifics. ChrisBell??


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## riverlightdesign

Hi I bought my house 2 yrs ago and I have this stove in my basement.  So far it's worked pretty great.  Been running it a lot this fall and all the outside surfaces have started turning ash grey. I think I'm supposed to treat with something called stove black?  Probably just wait till spring at this point.  Also I went downstairs yesterday and noticed the glass on one of the doors has broken so I'm definitely not running it for a while.  I'll post some pictures tonight.  Also if anyone has the manual I could really use that!

Chris
riverlightdesign@yahoo.com


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## AIMSWEEP

Need a manual up here as well- broken glass can be done by a glazier- just remove the door and take it to your local guy and get pyroceramic glass installed
But would appreciate a manual if anyone has one!!
thanks
Yvette in Canada


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## Gooserider

riverlightdesign said:
			
		

> Hi I bought my house 2 yrs ago and I have this stove in my basement.  So far it's worked pretty great.  Been running it a lot this fall and all the outside surfaces have started turning ash grey. I think I'm supposed to treat with something called stove black?  Probably just wait till spring at this point.  Also I went downstairs yesterday and noticed the glass on one of the doors has broken so I'm definitely not running it for a while.  I'll post some pictures tonight.  Also if anyone has the manual I could really use that!
> 
> Chris
> riverlightdesign@yahoo.com



Stove Black, or alternatively high temperature black spray paint (There is a brand specifically intended for woodstoves) is a proper treatment, but it should also be pointed out that stove surfaces turning grey or white can be a sign of over-firing!  That you've had a window break is also a bad sign...  Before just slapping paint or stove black on it, I'd want to be sure that you aren't running it too hot...

Gooserider


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## kentbelmont

chrisbell said:


> I'll get my son's help(probably late tomorrow) on the scanning business and send this to anyone who's interested or make it available thru a link. I've lots of experience w/ things I bought used w/ no instructions or manuals, and I know how nice it is to find one a keystroke away, for free! Chris


Hi Chris.  I just moved into a new home that has a Waterford 103 wood stove and I don't have a manual.  If you could email me a copy at knsebost@comcast.net I would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks  Kent


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## begreen

This is a 4 yr old thread. I'm not sure if chris is still logging on. You might try Woodmans for a copy of the manual:

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/catalogs/Wood-and-Coal-Stove-Manufacturers-Cross-Reference.html


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