# New to coyotes



## Astrolopitec (Feb 4, 2010)

Hi
I'm used to wolfs and black bears around my cottage. But this year we got coyotes for the first time. 
So I'm not familiar with then, but I notice that they do venture closer to the cottage than other predators.
Anything to watch for ?


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## cncpro (Feb 4, 2010)

Astrolopitec said:
			
		

> Anything to watch for ?



Umm  Yeah, watch out to keep your pistol handy and your ammo dry  ;-)  Good luck with that !


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## Bobbin (Feb 4, 2010)

Depends.  If you have a dog or cats and they go outdoors you should be aware that they are now more obvious objects of predation.  We make sure our cats are indoors by sundown and we don't let them out until the sun is well on its way up.  No guarantee of safety, but wild things tend to venture closer to "our" areas when the activity level is low... dusk, night time, and dawn.  Coyotes are pretty new to our area, too.  And there have been cases of cats grabbed off decks or from a yard and there is the occasional story of a child being attacked (usually toddler size).  

Coyotes are beginning to overwhelm fox populations in my area, too.  And there is growing momentum to increase hunting of coyotes on the grounds that they are doing damage to the deer herd.  Personally, I don't really care and I don't see any great decrease in deer population.  But they are a growing presence and I think it's wise to be alert if you know there is a pack in your area.


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## Ncountry (Feb 4, 2010)

We have had coyotes here as long as I can remember. You can go outside most any night of the week and hear them yipping. They have never caused any problems or got close whether I was home or in the woods hunting. If I had any that did not seem afraid of people or hung around the house I probably wood sell his fur.


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## raven (Feb 4, 2010)

enjoy em, there cool


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## Astrolopitec (Feb 4, 2010)

cncpro said:
			
		

> Umm Yeah, watch out to keep your pistol handy and your ammo dry ;-) Good luck with that !



If I had brown bear in my region for sure! But not such "luck".
Last year a teenager girl got killed by a pair of coyotes in the east coast.
And around 10 years ago we lost one of our x-country champions to a wild cat while training North of Quebec city.
But I guess one is more likely to get stroke by lightning.
Maulings are much more common in B.C. (brown bears, grizlies and all sorts of wild cats and stupid tourists).

Thanks Bobbin and Ncountry.
You very much confirm what I had gathered so far.


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## homebrewz (Feb 5, 2010)

They will attack regular domesticated dogs at times. We had two dogs that tried to "make friends" with them, and they both got away, but one had to be stitched back up. 

Welcome to the forum, Juan. You have some amazing aurora pictures on your web page.


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## dvellone (Feb 5, 2010)

We live in woods and hear the coyotes yipping several nights per week.  There's a good sized population of them around here. I raise hogs and chickens and keep a dog that stays outdoors and untied 24/7 and have never had a problem with coyotes. They could easily come in and scoop up the hogs especially when they're on the small side yet - I do keep them in a high-fenced pen until they're around 50#, and the chickens free-range through the woods until dusk when I close them in though I've left them with the coop open for days at a time too and have never lost one to predators of any kind. Hard to believe but the dog's presence seems to keep them away from our immediate ground. I'll hear them running around and yipping sometimes within a few hundred feet of the house, and the dog will growl and bark at them but stay right near the house. My last dog I used to have to call back in because it she would run off after them growling and barking. They've probably got plenty to eat without having to risk tangling with the dog, but if they were hungry enough I doubt the dog would stop them.


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## quads (Feb 5, 2010)

We have many coyotes around here.  They are very shy and it's hard to even see one.  They never bother anything, even calves in the pasture.  Sometimes the howling and yipping at night wakes me up, but other than that there are no problems.  They do dig holes in the hayfields looking for moles and mice too, which we have to watch out for when working the fields.

Wolves were reintroduced to this state and are now getting closer to here.  I am afraid they will cause problems.  They already kill hunting dogs and cattle in other parts of Wisconsin.


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 5, 2010)

They may go after pets, but won't go after you.  We used to sit around the fire when camping and take turns howling.  The coyotes would answer back and get closer and closer until they crested a hill and saw our fire nearby.  Creepy, exciting, but not dangerous.  I see no reason to kill them really.


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## onion (Feb 5, 2010)

Coyotes are generally much smaller than you may imagine them.  I have quite a few around me and have never seen one bigger than a 20 or 30 pound dog.  They are pretty harmless buggers unless you happen to be a rabbit or small rodent.  The packs are usually quite small (if they are even packed up) and they are rather timid when it comes to humans.

They do like dog and cat meat although I doubt they would try and take on a large dog like a lab etc.  I have seen them run from my English Springer (60#s).

I had one in my sights last year while sitting in my deer blind.  I couldn't shoot it though, looked too much like a dog.  The real problem is the decline of the fur market and the extermination of wolves, bears and mountain lions from much of the US.  Not too many people bothering to trap or hunt them for furs anymore since the price for a pelt is down and the food chain is all screwed up with coyotes filling the niche of top non-human predator.  As the wolves move back in, you should see less yotes.  Whether that is good or bad I'll let you decide


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## Flatbedford (Feb 5, 2010)

As long as you are not a Road Runner, you should be OK.

We have them near me too. I am in the suburbs about 40 miles North of New York City. The howling at night is kinda creepy.


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## billb3 (Feb 5, 2010)

Up until almost a year ago we had several here. Howling echoing throught the swamp can be a bit unnerving.
They'll take a deer.
They've had problems in other parts of town with pets in back yards disappearing. 
We've got no wild animals at all right now ( I guess between the coyotes and raccoon rabies the woods are quiet).

I had two of them going by the back of my house pretty much the same time of the morning for a while. 
I found a coyote den in the swamp in the side of a hill.


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## Astrolopitec (Feb 6, 2010)

Picture taken in Ottawa last week. They are really moving up North.
Another non native animal that has moved to the region big time is the wild turkey.
Climate change?


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## das fisch (Feb 6, 2010)

they have definitely adapted very well to the environment we produced by moving into their space.
For work I own/operate a nuisance wildlife damage company, but when we have our seasonal downtime which usually happens between December and March, I do still fur trap.
We have an early season specifically for canines to attempt to keep the population at a manageable level. This year I averaged almost 50lbs on coyotes, my largest being about 52 or so. 
Last year I caught one that weighed in at 62 lbs.
So at least here, they are growing in numbers and definitely size. But for the most part, YOU, have nothing to really worry about. We have one at camp in the adirondacks which would come in to about 15 ft of us while sitting around the fire.


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## dvellone (Feb 6, 2010)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> As long as you are not a Road Runner, you should be OK.
> 
> :



lol:    Just watch out for falling anvils, "black holes" in the road, and anything manufactured by "acme". Otherwise they're perfectly harmless.


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## semipro (Feb 6, 2010)

I've had them circle me in the woods in Texas, howling the whole time.  It was pretty exciting.  We've lived with them in Texas and in Virginia.  I agree with most others here,  protect your small pets and livestock and enjoy the coyotes otherwise.  There's something truly wild about them.


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## semipro (Feb 6, 2010)

Juan, 
I just visited your website and found myself envious.  The telescope and observatory are great.  Its wild that you "listen" to the stars too.  I'd love to see an image of Saturn through that scope.  I've seen it through a 6" scope and was amazed.


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## Wallyworld (Feb 7, 2010)

In Maine they are public enemy #1. The deer hunters hate them with a passion. Just last week someone stopped at my house and asked where the big coyote hunt was. Apparently one of my neighbors, who owns a big chunk of land invited a bunch of folks over to shoot as many as they could. I've seen them(dead coyotes) hanging from a tree in front of their houses, look at me I killed a coyote. I've seen dead coyotes beside 95 that must have weighed 50 or 60 lbs. You can hear them at night here and I can see their tracks in the snow all around my house. At one time we had sheep, pigs and chickens, never had an issue. I lost more chickens to raccoons than coyotes.


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## dvellone (Feb 7, 2010)

Wallyworld said:
			
		

> In Maine they are public enemy #1. The deer hunters hate them with a passion.  I lost more chickens to raccoons than coyotes.



Same here! I'm a deer hunter and make little effort to fill my tag each year, yet to hear some other hunters we need to put whitetails on the endangered species list because of coyotes. 
 Although I haven't lost a chicken to a predator yet (discounting my old dog!), but my dog has treed a few raccoons and woke me with his fanatic barking from under the tree. If the coyotes wanted to get our chickens they'd have little problem taking one. I hear them howling sometimes and they're closer to the house than the chicken coop is! The dog will bark at them but I doubt they're all that intimidated by him. I'm sure that some places have more problems with coyotes than we do, but I wonder also if there's not an adequate prey population for the dogs. I wonder if folks that have had many problems with coyotes (undoubtedly) taking their pets live in suburban areas where the prey population might be low. Here we've got plenty of hare, grouse, and smaller critters that must be plenty easy pickings for coyotes so that they're well fed.


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## Bobbin (Feb 7, 2010)

They are in our area but not in the immediate area of our home.  Yet.  I suspect the incidence of pet predation is due in large part to inadequate prey, too.  We have always made it policy to keep the cats in at night wherever we've lived.  It's just safer, why tempt fate if you don't have to?  And in '04 we had a fox attack and mortally wound one of our cats.  When I responded to the fox's cry and scooped the cat up I came within 3' of the fox.  He was beautiful, in fine fettle, and he'd clearly capitalized on a cat that was older and not at the top of his game any longer.  He was "just doin' his job" and while it was a tough loss it was part of the bargain we made when we opted to let the cat outdoors.  Life in the food chain, baby.  

I feel the same way about Fishers.  There was a thread about them that was so filled with "rural legend" and misinformation it wasn't worth responding any more.  Wild animals survive because they hunt.  Hunting culls the weak and disabled.  The entire eco system operates on this premise.  If they don't hunt successfully they will die.  End of story.  

Bothers me that people attach nefarious motives to animals that are just doing what their genes tell them to do.


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## Dune (Feb 8, 2010)

All sounds well and good, but be aware that coyotes with rabies could be deadly to humans.

My beagle was attacked by 3 coyotes and died shortly after. My malamute seems to get on O.K.


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## JustWood (Feb 8, 2010)

Bobbin said:
			
		

> They are in our area but not in the immediate area of our home.  Yet.  I suspect the incidence of pet predation is due in large part to inadequate prey, too.  We have always made it policy to keep the cats in at night wherever we've lived.  It's just safer, why tempt fate if you don't have to?  And in '04 we had a fox attack and mortally wound one of our cats.  When I responded to the fox's cry and scooped the cat up I came within 3' of the fox.  He was beautiful, in fine fettle, and he'd clearly capitalized on a cat that was older and not at the top of his game any longer.  He was "just doin' his job" and while it was a tough loss it was part of the bargain we made when we opted to let the cat outdoors.  Life in the food chain, baby.
> 
> I feel the same way about Fishers.  There was a thread about them that was so filled with "rural legend" and misinformation it wasn't worth responding any more.  Wild animals survive because they hunt.  Hunting culls the weak and disabled.  The entire eco system operates on this premise.  If they don't hunt successfully they will die.  End of story.
> 
> Bothers me that people attach nefarious motives to animals that are just doing what their genes tell them to do.



Yet I'm sure you attach nefarious motives to trappers and hunters when you are only mildly educated in the goings on of the wild. I trap,hunt, fish,use and preserve natures bounty but one thing I abhor more than anything is a hungry predator. When they become overpopulated and hungry , there are no limits.
10 years ago there was no such thing as a coyote or fisher in my area. NOW myself , a few other trappers and 3 groups with dogs remove over 300 coyotes/year locally.This overpopulation is from nearby states outlawing trapping and some hunting methods and the states introduction of these animals.Some  creeks are nearly void of fish due to the intrduction of otter. Small game populations are dwindling due to the  voracious appatite of the coyote and fisher.
Sorry but I dont want predators living near my home as well as I don't want murders,rapists and molesters living near my home.Just because they have fur and look cudly doesnt make them harmless. Would you think of a rapist differently if he wore a fur coat and drove a Beamer.


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## Bobbin (Feb 8, 2010)

Read the entire thread?


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## raven (Feb 8, 2010)

Well said Bobbin, couldn't agree more. I have hunted all my life and spent countless hours watching and learning
                    the ways of the nature that surrounds me. To me hunting goes hand in hand with understanding the way things work in 
                     nature. In fact when all is said and done its the learning and understanding that brings more satisfaction than pulling 
                     the trigger. I have lost many chickens to hawks.( red tailed) I feed wild birds and have cooper and sharp shinned
                     hawks blow through often picking off birds. People have asked why i dont shoot them...lol  i try and explain ...predator
                     and prey. As for a hawk taking a chicken, if the bird is willing to chance comming so close to the house to make a kill
                     i figure he needed the bird more than i and im ok with it. as far as the coopers and sharp shinned hawks taking song 
                     birds, i have to say i find it to cool to watch a hawk take a meal. Its part of the game. Nature has a way of balance, 
                     populations fluctuate in nature ,predator and prey alike. Coyote are no exception they will work deer herds over but 
                      the strongest of the herd survive and when there are to many coyotes there numbers will fall off . its nature.
                         Sorry about your cat ... But dam glade to hear you have the ability to understand predator and prey


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## dougstove (Feb 8, 2010)

Local hunting and trapping of coyotes does not generally lower their population, since they can increase their reproductive rates more than enough to compensate.
Their population is limited by food, habitat and higher level predators.
The northeastern coyotes are significantly larger than the typical western animals, possibly cross-breeding with wolves or dogs, or possibly just size increase in the absence of higher predators.


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## JustWood (Feb 8, 2010)

There is a big misconception in "a coyotes ability to increase reproductive rates more than enough to compensate". Their reproductive rates revolve more around availability of food than over or under population.
ie  If food ( game ,garbage, road kill, farm casualties, etc) is plentiful then yes the females are healthy and will have large litters. If they have killed off or exahsted a food source such as a farm dump or exhausted wild game populations then they will move to a different area with more food , not necessarily have a small litter. They always have the largest litters they possibly can according to health and genetics. There is not an idicative "switch" like existing population levels that make them more or less fertile. If that were the case then the population levels would never have been affected due to the eradication efforts of states and federal government in the late 19th century.

YES, they do kill just to kill but 95 % of the time it is out of necessity. I've seen it and studied it. For the most part they are scavengers but when predator populations explode and prey populations dwindle  they resort to the easiest thing they can find weather it be a cat, small dog or unattended child and/or some of the coyotes  move on to an unpopulated area and set up house.

Here in the northeast they are crossbred with the red wolf of canada and that I believe is the reason for the voraciousness of this predator versus it's western cousin.I'm not convinced  they can or will  interbreed with a domestic dog just yet.

On hunts I have watched many times there cunning ability to size up and lure a tracking dog to others in a pack (so that they may kill the dog) or away from a known den or female if they are outnumbered. I have watched them stop and let a tracking dog catch up to within 10 feet before dashing 100 yards ahead only to stop again and wait .
They are very brazen and have no fear. I have a friend who owns a large dairy farm and at least once a year coyotes get into calf pens and kill . They don't eat or drag the calf off just kill.
Do gooder policy for the last 20-30 years has been to lobby states to outlaw trapping and regulate hunting. If these policies continue overpopultion will occur . Coyotes will not self castrate or breed less due to over population. As long as there is food there will be coyotes. I belive they are very disease resistant as I have seen well over 500 coyotes in the last 10 years and maybe only 15 have had mange or looked unhealthy.  To understand predator/prey when talking about cooper hawks/song birds and cat/mouse is one thing ,a predator the size of a coyote or wolf is another. And yes the wolf will soon be in the North East in the near future.

Bobbin , you say you have no problem with hunting but I'm well aware of your views on trapping. Pretty much the same outcome isn't it?


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## gibson (Feb 8, 2010)

Interesting thread.  For much of the summer we had a lone stray wild canine wandering our suburban "cul-de-sac" type neighborhood.  Lots of woods and a river nearby so not surprising.  What was alarming to me was that it was around in broad daylight, often.  My first instinct was a coyote, although most of my neighbors called it the "fox".  It looked like the picture posted earlier in this thread, skinny, maybe 35 pounds, long stringy tail.  Didn't act rabid, but how do I know, I obviously don't know a fox from a coyote from a wolf.  Always alone, never vicious, but weird, like it had been abandoned.  It would lurk and then slowly retreat if you made a racket to scare it away.  Unsettling with young kids and at the time, a small black lab puppy.  Animal control in our town wouldn't do anything about it.  I couldn't even shoot it if I wanted to because of our neighborhood, oh and I don't have any firearms!  I live in Lincoln, RI about ten miles from Providence.  Anyone with knowledge on such matters care to venture a guess on what type of animal we were dealing with?  BTW, haven't see it all winter...


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## JustWood (Feb 8, 2010)

May have been a stray dog.
Fox are most generally less than 20 lbs.
An average coyote in the NE would weigh 35-40.
My inlaws live in the suburbs of San Fran and have them come into the back yard in broad daylight from the drainages that crisscross the area.
They adapt well to any surroundings, especially wherever there is easy food .
Friend of mine in Rochester ,NY say the city is poluted with them.


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## billb3 (Feb 8, 2010)

Well, coyotes are back here. (or maybe passsing through)
Heard them Saturday night at dusk. Dog wanted back in the house , NOW.

If they are back to use the den that I found out in the swamp, there's not much food for them here.
At least by the lack of footprints in the snow. And I usually see and hear somehting outside besides squirrels.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 8, 2010)

Astrolopitec said:
			
		

> Hi
> I'm used to wolfs and black bears around my cottage. But this year we got coyotes for the first time.
> So I'm not familiar with then, but I notice that they do venture closer to the cottage than other predators.
> Anything to watch for ?



Where I live I know most deer hunters consider them a nuisance and some folks actively hunt them. . . . others say they can be problematic with pets . . . but I can't say as though I've had any personal experiences (good or bad) with them.

My sister in Alaska however had some real issues . . . the coyotes were very brazen and were following her and her dog . . . well more likely following her dog. She said a local hunter was rather surprised at just how brave this pack was as he went out without a dog and they were circling him . . . at least until he dropped a few. That said, I think sometimes you can't really make a comparison between the actions and behavior of some animals in one area against a group thousands of miles away in very different circumstances (i.e. the Alaskan coyotes also have competition with wolves, more snow, etc.)


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## JustWood (Feb 8, 2010)

Instinct is instinct no matter what part of the world. They don't have the capacity to think any other way. Survival is first and foremost.


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2010)

I gots lots of them bastage around my place.  I just lost a very friendly, outside mouse catcher to them a few days ago.  They like to come up and get into a stare down match with my outside dog (they have NEVER come up to him and he is tied with access to a building).  But if and when they get close enough...BLAM...BLAM...BLAM.  Bastages.  I have lost several cats in the past couple of years to them.  

I have noticed that over the last couple of years they have also gotten a little more brazen.  Just this past week I had one in the yard that was at my garden area.  I shined it with a mega flash light.  Went back to the house - got a gun and the bastage was still standing there.   BLAM...

I don't kill for fun, but these are overpopulated predators in my area.  I will take them out if given the chance.


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## dougstove (Feb 8, 2010)

Sorry about people's pets, but, indirectly, the over-population of outdoor pets is part of what is feeding the over population of coyotes.
The outdoor pet cats can accumulate to a much higher than natural level, because they get supplemental feedings to fend off starvation, and then cause serious damage to bird and other wild animal populations.
The neighbourhood cats routinely kill birds in my hedge, but people would be outraged if I turned my dogs loose on the cats.
I would welcome some fisher or coyote action to even things out.
    (There are plenty in the woods, but they do not venture into town yet - possibly still too wary of people here).

Coyote behaviour and size varies regionally and situationally.  The little things I once saw on the prairies were not much more than fox-sized.  Around here, they are often 20 kg, look even bigger, and could tackle many dogs.


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## dvellone (Feb 8, 2010)

exactLEE said:
			
		

> YES, they do kill just to kill but 95 % of the time it is out of necessity. I've seen it and studied it. For the most part they are scavengers but when predator populations explode and prey populations dwindle  they resort to the easiest thing they can find weather it be a cat, small dog or unattended child



Considering that the coyote is one of the most adaptable animals, and are frequently seen even in urban areas displaying little fear of living in close proximity to humans where there often isn't a very large prey population, the incidence of coyotes attacking unattended children should by your reasoning be considerably higher than it is. How many children were attacked by coyotes this past year compared to how many were abducted by humans or attacked by domesticated dogs?

The California Dept. of Fish and Game reports that one person is bitten by a coyote each year (bitten, not killed.) California is considered to be prime habitat for coyotes. They report that they have one documented death resulting from a coyote attack.
3 million children are bitten by domestic dogs (pets) each year
300 people had been killed by domestic dogs between 1979 and the late 90's

If you're likening coyotes to murderers, rapists, and molesters, how would you characterize domestic dogs? 

 Coyotes are not Disney characters but opportunistic wild animals that anybody should have a healthy respect for. California and Texas share similar statistics on pet losses yet while California reports occasional attacks on humans, in Texas there have been few, if any.   Some scientists  speculate this may be due to differing attitudes towards coyotes: Texas has more ranching and the protective attitudes that follow, while some Southern Californians are being accused of intentionally feeding coyotes and thus encouraging their associating easy picking with gentle humans. 

I think that there is a middle ground of reason to consider here. While coyotes are far from being the nightmarish killers some make them out to be, they are never the less wild animals that can easily become adapted to living very close to humans. In suburban and urban areas, where they lose their fear of us and where much of the conflict occurs, it's difficult to instill a healthy fear of humans in them - we can't hunt in these areas. I don't know how they can be addressed in these areas aside from stiff penalties for the ignorant individuals that are feeding them. The hunting season for them here in New york runs for 6 months and there is no bag limit, so in areas where you can hunt that is a real liberal season. 

As for myself, I've lived in the Adirondacks all my life and we have many coyotes here. I live right in the woods and miles from the nearest village and I spend a lot of time hunting and fishing. The only times I see coyotes is when I'm driving in my car.  I can't speak for others, but coyotes have never approached my two children (7+5) who play out doors most days, I've never lost a hog or a chicken to coyotes, and if they'll take dogs they've yet to attack mine. Am I ignorant to their threat? No, the kids have to play near the house where I can easily see them, and when they go to collect eggs the dog goes with them and they go together. But I also don't let them out during electrical storms, I don't let them play in the woods during real windy days, they can't ever go to the pond without me or their mother, and when we go to the city I have what most would consider a real unreasonable fear of the "coyotes" there. There are threats other than coyotes that are millions of times more likely to present themselves. I don't have any interest in hunting them. If the price of their pelt was high enough I don't know that I might want to go after them. I do know hunting for an extra income sounds pretty inviting.  In the past when prices were too high and there were bounties on mountain lions and wolves we ended up losing those predators entirely here in NY. I can say I wouldn't want to see that extreme as far as coyotes go.   We share the woods and they're a vital part of making what would otherwise be wooded land "wilderness".


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## Jags (Feb 8, 2010)

1 cat is far from an overpopulation and hardly worth an entire pack to be at my back door on dang near a nightly basis.  I have the average 35-40 pound yotes running my area.  They get NO love from me.  BLAM...

If I had that many coons, skunks, etc. running around I would be popping them too.  Their population level is WAY too high.


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## JustWood (Feb 8, 2010)

dvellone said:
			
		

> exactLEE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You answered your own question about attacks on people. You as a parent are protective of your children and limit oportunities for attacks by havin your children inside at prime feeding times(night).
Also , there is usually more than enough asy prey and food in the outskirts of suburban areas. Dumpsters,trash cans,compost piles,etc. Prey populations are also high due to being pushed back by developement.

Dogs are nothing more than tamed wild dogs. Take away his food and keep it scared and he will use his instints to survive.

Part of the reason that bounties were put on animals years ago was due to overpopulation and the desire to settle areas that weren't. Not to totally eradicate them. Back then there weren't any measures taken to limit the number of bounties  because they didn't have the ability to monitor populations like they do now with the deer herd nor did they probly want to know how many coyotes and wolves were around.They just wanted them gone.


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## midwestcoast (Feb 8, 2010)

Remember this one?
Just to keep perspective here, none of us have coyote problems like the poor beseiged people of Chicago. They can't even grab a Snapple from the Quiznos cooler without checking for coyotes! For the love of god, where will it end? Keep your fridge lights in working order or your next midnight leftover raid may be your last!  :ahhh:  





Here's the link if that didn't work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWTttvImgnQ


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## dvellone (Feb 9, 2010)

exactLEE said:
			
		

> You answered your own question about attacks on people. You as a parent are protective of your children and limit oportunities for attacks by havin your children inside at prime feeding times(night).
> Also , there is usually more than enough asy prey and food in the outskirts of suburban areas. Dumpsters,trash cans,compost piles,etc. Prey populations are also high due to being pushed back by developement.
> 
> Dogs are nothing more than tamed wild dogs. Take away his food and keep it scared and he will use his instints to survive.
> ...



I'm not sure what question I asked then answered about attacks on humans. I pointed out the extremely rare incidence of attacks and how you're millions of times more likely to be attacked by someone's pet dog than a coyote. I went on to say that I'm not ignorant of their threat, and I likened my level of caution and fear with those that anybody takes with small children: don't play out in an electrical storm, don't go near the water without an adult, and here in the woods where you're more likely to have a limb fall on your head than be struck by lightning - don't play under the trees during high winds.  In other words, always be alert to any dangers while also regarding them with the reality of their likelihood - I don't keep my kids locked in the house fearing ravenous coyotes. I let them play outside and I keep my eye on them as anybody would with small children - my wife and I are still working, doing our things.  My kids are 5 and 7 years old. Not many parents would let that age of children wander off where they couldn't see them for myriad reasons. I'm much more concerned with them getting lost, or jabbing a stick in the others eye than I am of a coyote attack. And as far as night goes, my kids are sleeping by 8:00 not because the boogy-man or werewolf wakes at dusk, but because they're small children and that's their bedtime. They'll play outside until that time though dark or not. When I was a kid my parents let us run through the woods at night playing chase with flashlights and nobody ever even saw a coyote.
Fear-mongering is a poor substitute for informative and thoughtful discussion. Coyote-human attacks are very rare, and human fatalities resulting from coyote attacks are extremely rare. They are well-documented and can be easily researched. But, unfortunately the horror of an attack rises above the reality of it's likelihood and the torches get lit and the mob heads out for the "monster".


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## kartracer (Feb 10, 2010)

Coyotes are everwhere here.My neighbor has had many chickens and guineas killed.The last one killed here was the size of a german shephard.Donkeys are good to help guard from coyotes.


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## dougstove (Feb 10, 2010)

I like having dogs, but statistically, they are way more likely than a coyote to injure someone.
That said, it is nice to have a dog along in the woods;  either they drive the coyote or bear away, or the coyote or bear gets lunch and I get away


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## kartracer (Feb 10, 2010)

Or take someone you can outrun.


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## JustWood (Feb 10, 2010)

dvellone said:
			
		

> exactLEE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wasn't fear mongering. Where did I state that coyote/human attacks happen frequently.
  Simply stating the fact that when predator populations become unchecked they attack anything that looks/smells like food. When one area becomes overpopulated  coyotes move on  to find unpopulated areas and the cycle will continue until they have populated everywhere. When this happens , sky's the limit on what size game they will kill .Can you run faster than a deer? Likely wont happen but it could.


Is this fear mongering or is it just an isolated instance. The parks dept called my hunt club to bring our dogs in and take care of this problem.We did.

"The Chautauqua County Health Department’s Division of Environmental Health Services is advising the public of safety issues concerning coyotes following a recent attack that killed two domestic dogs. 

The incident occurred on the Fred J. Cusimano Westside Overland Trail in the area between Mayville and Sherman, when two labrador retrievers following their owner, who was cross country skiing, were attacked by a pack of five coyotes. Despite the owner’s efforts to scare the coyotes away, both dogs were killed. 

“We want to take the opportunity of this unfortunate event to inform the public of the following information and precautions to avoid a negative encounter with a coyote,” said Mike Stow of the Environmental Health Services. 

Coyotes can be found throughout New York state and have a difficult time finding food during this time of year. They may be seen more frequently during spring and early summer as they are raising their litters. 

As food is more scarce for coyotes in the wild, it is wise to control other sources of food that may draw a coyote near your house. Keep dog and cat food bowls inside, trash secure and compost bins covered. Also monitor any bird feeders you may have to ensure they are not attracting other wildlife. If others in your neighborhood are attracting coyotes, tell them about the hazards and ask them to take the measures listed above. 

If you ever spot a coyote, do not make any attempts to approach or feed it. They may look cute, friendly or harmless, but they are dangerous wild animals. 

In addition to the initial dangers of an attack, coyotes are also capable of carrying and transmitting rabies. If you are scratched or bitten by a coyote or any other wild animal, pleae contact the Health Department immediately at 753-4481. 

It also helps to protect your pets against rabies by having them properly vaccinated. The Health Department promotes rabies vaccination clinics throughout the year, with the next clinic scheduled to take place at the Dunkirk City Garage, Lucas Avenue, Dunkirk on Tuesday, March 20 from 4:30 p.m.-6:30 p.m. The full schedule can be found on the county website at www.co.chautauqua.ny.us. Click on “Health Department/Rabies Prevention.” 

If you notice a coyote that is acting strangely or causing a nuisance, do not try to take action yourself. Contact the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation at 851-7000. 

The state also has a yearly coyote hunting season to help control their population. The current season is running until March 25 and all coyote takes must be "

or how about this.
http://post-journal.com/page/content.detail/id/502545.html

This is something else that is starting to piss locals off.
http://www.observertoday.com/page/content.detail/id/534768.html


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## JustWood (Feb 10, 2010)

I could go on about all the unreported incidents that happen.
Local groups for about the last 6 years have taken on average 300 coyotes a year from a 30 mile radius of here which is about the average size of a county. Would you say the population is out of control?
I'm done here as I will likely not change your mind till you have lived and studied it which I have.


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## dvellone (Feb 10, 2010)

exactLEE said:
			
		

> I could go on about all the unreported incidents that happen.
> Local groups for about the last 6 years have taken on average 300 coyotes a year from a 30 mile radius of here which is about the average size of a county. Would you say the population is out of control?
> I'm done here as I will likely not change your mind till you have lived and studied it which I have.



The debate is fine, and I'd guess that we probably agree basically on more than we disagree. I would be among the first to admit that when populations of either predator or prey increase unchecked problems will arise. And the feeding of wild animals which is sensibly illegal in many areas results in many problems. But with all due respect I do have to disagree with the characterizations that compare wild animals with murderers, rapists, and molesters -they are "predators" of a completely different ilk. The language and comparison leads people towards an unreasonable fear of a wild animal. Historically, that fear has often led us towards detrimental wildlife "management" practices.  Whether the population growth of coyotes continues and attacks rise to a number that warrants more concern remains to be seen. I may not be as studied as you in the field of wildlife biology, but my understanding is that predator populations rise and fall with those of the prey that they feed on. 

I can't comment about the population of coyotes being out of control in your neck of the woods, but around here they are plentiful and so are deer, rabbits, and grouse. 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## raven (Feb 10, 2010)

........lol this is an interesting post.I have to wonder about Lees coyote population, there must be a dam good boom in some other population to support it. I have a dam good population of coyotes in my area and enjoy it.I do have one groan about em though, i also have a big population of cats gone wild, dont get me wrong i like cats and have my own but cats are killin machines. i keep waiting for a few of them to be thinned by the coyotes .... hasent happened yet. so i hope they get off there azzz and start takin a few soon. LEE you sound like a guy who is really into the wild life around you. You hunt and trap coyotes, I have to think that without those coyotes your hunting and trapping would be a little less. They are  wild and they do have a place in that wild life that surrounds us. It has always been easy to paint the predator as a murdering monster that needs to go . sorry to say it but .... its bull chit always has been and always will be........lol to the original poster thanks i have enjoyed reading this one


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## raven (Feb 10, 2010)

by the way just wanted to say that the talk of hawks in my first response in this thread had to do with the mind set some people have about predators ingeneraLEE


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 10, 2010)

People worry so much about them, but look at how many people are attacked by them vs. dogs attacking people.  Millions of bites a year by dogs- over a hundred deaths.  Where's the real threat?

Eastern coyotes are about 10# heavier on average than western ones


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

Just to show that I am fair - if we had a pack of wild dogs running around - I would shoot them too.  BLAM..


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 10, 2010)

LOL Jags-I dunno- I have a thing about outside cats.  Incredible predators- incredibly destructive.  People love to say they're part of the natural order and all- well, there's always one up the food chain  

I feel for the ferals in my neighborhood- always seeing kittens out and getting hit by cars etc.  Surpirised bthat they survive the winter


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

I live in an old farm surrounded by lots and lots of farm land that grows stuff like corn and beans.  If the cats are away the mice will play.  I don't see cats in the ditches anymore, I don't see squirrels, or rabbits or fox, but I see alot of those GD coyotes.  At night you can hear packs "talking" to one another across the open fields.  I haven't been able to keep a farm cat around for 3 years until this friendly little black thing "showed up" at my door step.  It adapted to my dogs (thats a task in itself), it adapted to the outdoors, was a heck of a mouser and rarely (if at all) left my property.  Two weeks ago, it didn't have to leave my property - the yotes came to it. 

I got NO love for the yotes.

In the 115 years that my family has owned this land, I have never heard of any of the old timers or in the many years that I have been here, anybody talking about the large population of yotes that are around today.

Black snakes the size of anacondas, turtles that stopped the tiny creek, owls, deer, the old farm dog that killed two badgers in one year - ya, I have heard those stories.  Yotes - never.  I am sure they have always been around, but not like now.


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 10, 2010)

Yup- even in my parents suburban neighborhood they have them now.  Of course they have deer and turkey too- which I NEVER saw in all my years in the woods right down the street from them as a kid.  Populations of many critters has rebounded in a big way- that doesn't mean they're not native, of course.  We have several times more deer now than when Columbus first landed.


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## karri0n (Feb 10, 2010)

Jags, lee, others that kill 'em;

Do you guys take the pelts or the meat?

Is the meat at all edible?


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> Jags, lee, others that kill 'em;
> 
> Do you guys take the pelts or the meat?
> 
> Is the meat at all edible?



The pelts are not worth anything around here and I am not overly fond of dog (at least the one time I had it overseas).  So NO is the answer to both, in my case.

I am sure it is edible, but so is skunk. :sick:


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## karri0n (Feb 10, 2010)

I would just hate to waste anything that I killed.

Maybe feed the meat to the cats(how's that for irony?)


I hear em in the woods around my area, but there's plenty of food for them. Many more of my cats have been killed by man at 50+ MPH(at least two, probably more like 3-4) than coyotes.

I saw one in the yard once, standing less than 5' from one of the cats. The coyote didn't go after the cat, and the cat didn't seem at all threatened by its presence. The cats were much more threatened when we had a turkey vulture sitting on our roof.


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> I would just hate to waste anything that I killed.
> 
> Maybe feed the meat to the cats(how's that for irony?)



None left. 

Trust me, between the turkey vultures, hawks, eagles, crows, and other scavengers, it doesn't just lay there.


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## karri0n (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> Maybe *I'd* feed the meat to the cats(how's that for irony?)




fixed.


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> karri0n said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And maybe I would consider that if I had any cats left.  I don't.


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## karri0n (Feb 10, 2010)

Well, If they started coming around and going after the cats, I'd do the same thing as you.


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## firefighterjake (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> Jags, lee, others that kill 'em;
> 
> Do you guys take the pelts or the meat?
> 
> Is the meat at all edible?



My sister's husband is working on a coyote pelt for my sister . . . her newest hobby is taking pelts and making hats and mittens out of them . . . and I have to confess after seeing how warm the mittens were I've asked her for a pair of fur mittens to use while snowmobiling.


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## dvellone (Feb 10, 2010)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> I feel for the ferals in my neighborhood- always seeing kittens out and getting hit by cars etc.  Surpirised bthat they survive the winter



Same here! We often have substantial snow, and the winter lows are well below zero and with nobody around putting out food I'm amazed to see a couple of the same feral cats year after year. My dog treed one a couple years ago and it patiently sat about 50' up in the tree all day watching us go about our business. Next morning it was gone. Glad it got away without conflict with the dog. That's gotta be one tough cat.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 10, 2010)

Sorry where it offends, but the animals got to remember who's boss. Boss says you can have your own space, make all the noise ya want. But you gotta leave the Boss's stuff alone. That includes people and animals that the Boss owns. But if yer a solitary kyote', you prolly ought to be more scared of my dawg than my shotgun. He's less than a year old, but he's pushin 80# already and I think once he realizes you aint friendly, he's gonna get really ugly. Me, on the other hand, am already ugly. But my aim sucks. But you will be suprised how I can empty that Mossberg :lol:


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## JustWood (Feb 10, 2010)

raven said:
			
		

> ........lol this is an interesting post.I have to wonder about Lees coyote population, there must be a dam good boom in some other population to support it. I have a dam good population of coyotes in my area and enjoy it.I do have one groan about em though, i also have a big population of cats gone wild, dont get me wrong i like cats and have my own but cats are killin machines. i keep waiting for a few of them to be thinned by the coyotes .... hasent happened yet. so i hope they get off there azzz and start takin a few soon. LEE you sound like a guy who is really into the wild life around you. You hunt and trap coyotes, I have to think that without those coyotes your hunting and trapping would be a little less. They are  wild and they do have a place in that wild life that surrounds us. It has always been easy to paint the predator as a murdering monster that needs to go . sorry to say it but .... its bull chit always has been and always will be........lol to the original poster thanks i have enjoyed reading this one



Let me rephrase something I said in a previous post. Yes they are murderers as they do kill just to kill and they do need to go (thinned out) in my area.Not bullshit but fact. I have seen many a deer kill with just puncture wounds and minimal flesh removed only to return a few weeks later to find the kill further untouched .  They do serve a purpose by ridding of carrion which there is alot of here. But when they enter barns and kill confined cattle or dogs posing no harm and not eat it there lies a problem. I'm not to far from you and collared reasearch coyotes from my area have been traced to the Cleveland area. Would you have liked the 1800 + that have been taken the last 6 years from this area to have bred to the point of running out of sustainable food  and moving to your area to breed and  reproduce. If 30% of the take were female and they each had 4 surviving pups each year that amounts to 14,400 coyotes not including the base breeding  population of 70% female and 30% male which can't be calculated because we don't know whats left at the end of season. You probably didn't know the take was only 30 % female did you. The males do the most traveling ,hunting and when threatened draw the threat away from existing females. I have seen as many as 13 pups being carried by a female so my figures are probably low. Do the math and figure a large  carrion food supply here and you have a recipe for disaster if the population is not controlled.


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## karri0n (Feb 10, 2010)

exactLEE said:
			
		

> They do serve a purpose by ridding of carrion which there is alot of here.




What you got against karrion?


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## Jags (Feb 10, 2010)

karri0n said:
			
		

> exactLEE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pests - the whole lot of them. :lol:


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## JustWood (Feb 10, 2010)

carriOn=steaming pile o' rottOn flesh.
karriOn= samsOnite
 :lol:


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## raven (Feb 11, 2010)

........LEE i have hunted and fished all my life and i dont take it lightly.I have a great respect for the game i take and all the others that are in the chain. Idont have any problem thinning an over population of coyotes. I also understand that government agencies can screw up royal.  Here in Ohio there are park areas that have a heavy deer herd, instead of letting bow hunters thin the heard they bring in sharp shooters and it just pisses me off to no end. Ill say it again we have a history of labeling wild life as murdering 
monsters , its always been an easy painting.Fewer and fewer people learn to hunt and learn about whats out doors through experience. So for those who do care about and understand and enjoy the wild life that surrounds us on this here big blue planet using terms like murdering when referring to any wild life is painting a picture....abstract.... where i think in this day and age a dam photo is more what is needed.so painting any animal out to be a low life murdering beast from hell is....BULLSHIT. I am interested in that yote that traveled from ohio to your neck of the woods though ,do you have any idea of the time frame from when it was collard to when it was taken?And one more thing...when kerrion asked whether anyone ate coyote meat do ya think he had motives ...like a local chines restaurant ? ;-)


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## JustWood (Feb 11, 2010)

Here is the article about the coyote that traveled from my area to Cleveland.

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090218/NEWS02/302189956

I'd like to see the article about government sharpshooters and any of your personal  evidence you might have backing up your BS theory.


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## nojo (Feb 11, 2010)

Astrolopitec said:
			
		

> I'm used to wolfs and black bears around my cottage. But this year we got coyotes for the first time.



Coyotes are great! How do you think my friend Carlos got here?


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## onion (Feb 11, 2010)

exactLEE said:
			
		

> Here is the article about the coyote that traveled from my area to Cleveland.
> 
> http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090218/NEWS02/302189956
> 
> I'd like to see the article about government sharpshooters and any of your personal  evidence you might have backing up your BS theory.



Lee,

I'm not from the same area he is but I can tell you that the folks down here have brought in sharpshooters in a couple of local parks to thin the deer herd instead of letting hunters in to do it.  

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/stor...g-Deer-In-Mt-Airy/zd0AIOIKrkqaX3gqOAOE1g.cspx

This year it seems that they did let some hunters into the same park however.  I haven't heard how successful they were.


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## prairiefire (Feb 12, 2010)

round here coyotes are becoming a problem in some areas. you can now go and register at the municipal office and then go and hunt them. if you then bring back 4 paws to the municipal office they give you $20-25 bucks. on a side note it is also legal to shoot any dog that comes on your property, i have a few nieghbors that have done this before which bugs my wife to no end but they don't want dogs chasing their cattle through fence lines.


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## Snag (Feb 12, 2010)

FWIW, I discussed the dangers of coyotes with a professor at OSU a few years ago because my dogs had occasion to play tag with coyote pups when we were living in Indiana.  Apparently there are two types of coyotes, Eastern and Western with the Eastern coyote being about twice the size but less aggressive than their west coast cousin ;-)  From what I understand, they are not likely to put themselves into a position where they could be hurt in an altercation with any person or other animal as they are not as likely to survive in the wild when injured.  

When given a choice, they will hunt mice, rabbits, etc. so they'll be attracted into areas of human habitat if that habitat provides a food source for mice like garbage, bird feeders and outside dog and cat food bowls.  It doesn't take long for them to figure out that garbage and dog food is easy pickin's (grin) so if you're seeing more of them than usual, it might be because someone in your neighborhood is making it a great place to visit.  If that's the case, by removing the food attractions, you'll likely to see them less often.  

Also, if the pack in your area is benign and is hunted or trapped out, they will most likely be replaced by another pack and the new pack may not be so easy to live with.  I never found them to be an animal to be feared anymore than I would be afraid of a fox though I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I kept any sort of livestock.... or wee little dogs that resemble bedroom slippers.


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## Dune (Feb 12, 2010)

Another freindly reminder, coyotes with rabies have no fear and will attack anything.


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 12, 2010)

It's no theory.  Sharpshooters are a very common method for deer herd thinning- especially in populated areas.  Very common on the east coast (Jersey, etc).

As a bowhunter, it annoys the hell out of me- they pay sharpshooters a lot of tax money, rather than the money the bowhunter would pump into the economy.



			
				exactLEE said:
			
		

> Here is the article about the coyote that traveled from my area to Cleveland.
> 
> http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090218/NEWS02/302189956
> 
> I'd like to see the article about government sharpshooters and any of your personal  evidence you might have backing up your BS theory.


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## JustWood (Feb 12, 2010)

BS theory is Ravens idea of "painting coyotes as murderous killers". Links I posted and evidence I've seen pretty much prove they do kill just to kill. Google will find thousands of others.
Don't doubt sharpshooters, just wanted to read the link.


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## SE Iowa (Feb 12, 2010)

Wow! 50-60 lb coyotes. We've had them forever but come in around 25-35lbs mostly. They look bigger though. Ours wouldn't take a healthy deer down either. They are heavily hunted usually by groups of hunters out here b/c we have lots of wide open spaces and they run fast/far. I know of one guy who has shot 40 of them just this winter. We never seem to knock the populations down though.


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## Adios Pantalones (Feb 12, 2010)

Coyotes here have been known to chase down deer in snow- a thinnish ice cover may provide enough strength that the yote can skate across the top as the deer's hooves punch through, slowing it down.  Out at the Quabbin reservoir in MA, I remember that they would chase deer out on the ice and let them fall through.  I would guess that their "ruthless murdering" serves the purpose of leaving carrion for a later meal.  Kill it while you can- especially in cold weather- though the artificial excess of deer that we have now may just stimulate the hunting instinct.  

I would guess that the chance that a coyote finds certain game is much higher now with all the deer etc, and they are geared towards getting them when they can (as the carrying capacity of the land was much lower when they evolved).

50-60# would be very large.  30-50# is much more typical for Eastern coyote, which- as I said- is more like 10# heavier on average than the western cousins.


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## dvellone (Feb 12, 2010)

Here they'll run a deer onto the ice and then it's an easier kill. I've seen them run across the road in front of the car a few times in the winter and they look big in their winter coat. 

Roland Kays, the mammal curator at the New York State Museum concluded in a recent study that the larger size of the Eastern coyote is attributed to it's being genetically part wolf. Very interesting story.  http://adirondackexplorer.org/out-takes/tag/coyote/


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## verne (Feb 13, 2010)

i have a few recent pics of coyotes and a fox .I have not been able to re-size any thing right yet so lets see...


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## leaddog (Feb 13, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> Sorry where it offends, but the animals got to remember who's boss. Boss says you can have your own space, make all the noise ya want. But you gotta leave the Boss's stuff alone. That includes people and animals that the Boss owns. But if yer a solitary kyote', you prolly ought to be more scared of my dawg than my shotgun. He's less than a year old, but he's pushin 80# already and I think once he realizes you aint friendly, he's gonna get really ugly. Me, on the other hand, am already ugly. But my aim sucks. But you will be suprised how I can empty that Mossberg :lol:



Most dogs won't stand a chance agains a coyote. They are killing machines and know how to do it quick. They don't hunt like dogs either. When in a pack they don't hunt together they spred out and push game to each other. You think a fighting dog is visious? they don't know anything. A coyote know where to tear to put them down and then where to kill. Ham string and tear the throat or gut. When the coyotes move in here the rabbits are GONE in one nite. They don't hurt the grown deer population unless the is crusty snow and then they will really tear them up. They are very hard on the fawn crop but because the deer tend to drop fawns at the same time most make it.
They are predators but humans are higher on the predator list. That said we as predators can't come close to wiping them out as they are VERY smart and adapable. If you call one in and don't get him you probably will never call him in again. The young ones are easier but the old ones die of old age.
They are also carriers of most dog parasites including heartworm. They were also hit very heavy with parvo before most vets even knew what parvo was but they carry natual immunity now. they have to be healthy or they don't make it so they tend to have strong systems. When I was dog sled racing we (dogsled racers ) were the first to find what parvo was and were vacinating with cat distemper vacine before the pet vets had ever heard what it was. ( it mutated from cat distemper) . by the time the vets were crying that the dog population was doomed it had aready spead throughout the whole canine world population, The pet vets bought up all the vacine so we had a very hard time getting any and they charged us a HUGE price. But because there were several vets that raced they helped us get it. It was hard on pets but it also dropped the coyote population down for only a couple years.
leaddog


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## raven (Feb 13, 2010)

bingo........adios i think ya hit the nail on the head.I would say every one on this site can count to 10 easy. Now you take a whole dam pack a yotes and between them all as cunning and adaptable as they are they couldent count to 2.  lol .Lets face it we are at the top of the chain. Although we are capable of being as dumb as stumps. I for one have a freezer and can goodies for future use, go to the store to pick up snacks for things like an up comming basket ball game ...like the one between the Cavs and Celtics comming soon.   lol  Coyotes are killing machines.Like leaddog says they know their business,they have to its what they are ...predators.  They do understand hunger and the need to feed or die.What is seen in our eyes as meaningless killing may be just that in our eyes. Coyotes cant count to 10,dont have freezers and dont live by the 9 to 5 rules. I am sure that just 1 of those meaningless killings in our eyes has been the only thing that has stood between life and death for the coyotes many a time. Man has for the most part climbed out of the natural ways in nature long ago, nature is what it is and has no way of understanding us. Its up to us to understand. Calling  the coyote a murder just isn't right or accurate in my opinion. Im not the oldest or wisest kid on the block ,in almost 60 yrs there hasent been a day go by that something in nature hasent stopped me in my tracts be it a flight of geese or the way the wind moves across the water that hasent made me feel richer for the experience. Its 2010 boys and girls...sorry but murdering coyote just dosent cut it in my book.
Wayne


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## mainstation (Feb 14, 2010)

dougstove said:
			
		

> Local hunting and trapping of coyotes does not generally lower their population, since they can increase their reproductive rates more than enough to compensate.
> Their population is limited by food, habitat and higher level predators.
> The northeastern coyotes are significantly larger than the typical western animals, possibly cross-breeding with wolves or dogs, or possibly just size increase in the absence of higher predators.



+1 
I have a pack that runs the 200 acres across the road from my house.  I can usually hear them most nights, howling to each other--calling out locations etc.  In the spring the howling is closer and more pronounced.  Right now local guys are running dogs on sunny days , hunting coyotes for sport, there hasn't been a bounty on them for years around here.  Experts say if you have a wolf population, then you don't have coyotes and vice versa.   We have a cat and a border collie (45#) and am not really worried about them being taken by the coyotes.  
Be smart, know your bush/surroundings and keep your eyes open.


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## Snag (Feb 14, 2010)

Here's an interesting study on the size differences based on range location, for those interested. Avg. 18 - 30 pounds for the western and 35 - 40 for the eastern, with the largest dog captured at almost 75 pounds and largest groan weighing in at a tad more than 55 pounds.  
http://easterncoyoteresearch.com/downloads/RecordLargeCoyoteWay.PDF


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 14, 2010)

leaddog said:
			
		

> Most dogs won't stand a chance agains a coyote. They are killing machines and know how to do it quick. They don't hunt like dogs either. When in a pack they don't hunt together they spred out and push game to each other. You think a fighting dog is visious? they don't know anything. A coyote know where to tear to put them down and then where to kill. Ham string and tear the throat or gut. When the coyotes move in here the rabbits are GONE in one nite.
> leaddog



Well, I'm no expert on kyotes, but they pass by my house nearly every night. The rabbits are still here.

I grant you my dog's a baby yet, but he naturally very dog agressive. We try to stay together when we walk in the woods. Funny how the kyotes know not to mess with humans. Kinda like the bears are scared sheetzless of dogs. Go figure.

 BTW. . .you sled dogs. . .what kind?


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## leaddog (Feb 14, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> leaddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Feb 15, 2010)

leaddog said:
			
		

> I started with Alaskan Malamutes, Showed and raced them (had three American and Canadian champions). They were way to slow for racing. Moved up to racing alaskan huskies.
> 
> leaddog



Ever use or see someone use an Akita? I heard once that they have been used as lead dogs. Our experiance with them is that it don't seem likely. Tought they are powerful and great companions to people, they simply have to be top dog in their minds. But back to your Huskies . . . any interaction between the kyotes and them in the past?

Jimbo


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## leaddog (Feb 15, 2010)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> leaddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jotul8e2 (Feb 20, 2010)

Astrolopitec said:
			
		

> Picture taken in Ottawa last week. They are really moving up North.
> Another non native animal that has moved to the region big time is the wild turkey.
> Climate change?



Coyote populations rise and fall with the population of their food sources.  There is a very high correlation between the number of coyotes and rabbits at any given time.

I live in very close proximity to coyotes - I've heard their pups joining the sing-alongs 50-60 yards from my house, so I know they have dens nearby.  Judging by the sound of their howling at night there must be five to eight dozen within earshot most of the time.   However, I have only actually seen one twice in the past four years.  On the other hand, if their tracks in the snow mean anything they must see us quite often.

We don't let our pets roam outside.


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## dougstove (Feb 23, 2010)

This an interesting thread.
Leaddogs:  I am currently training up two eurohounds (alaskan husky/german short hair pointer lines) for skijoring.  Fast as blazes, but not as woods-smart as a typical alaskan or malamute.


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## ChillyGator (Mar 1, 2010)

Astrolopitec said:
			
		

> Hi
> I'm used to wolfs and black bears around my cottage. But this year we got coyotes for the first time.
> So I'm not familiar with then, but I notice that they do venture closer to the cottage than other predators.
> Anything to watch for ?



My brother and I have both seen them chasing deer (does/fawns) during daylight.  I shoot em on sight but you have to be prepared to cull a few german shepards from time to time. :bug:


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## StackedLumber (Mar 2, 2010)

Heading out in the am w/ a group of running walkers for yotes.  Had one try to attack me once.  I was turkey hunting w/ my dad and had killed on and pulled it up to me.  I returned to calling for my dad and it brought one in.  It apparently saw or smelled my turkey next to me and kept coming closer and closer I stood up and realized that it was under 10 yrds from me and it stopped and growled at me and stood it's ground.  It got a face full of turkey shot, and went off to the fur traders.  

The old timers around here tell of times they would pull in $3000 a person hunting and trapping coyotes during a winter.  Most of the furs goes to russia, same with most of the coon furs that get traded here.  

In my experience, coyotes are brazen around kids (had one here checking out a playground once) and small dogs.  But they run and run when you let the hounds out on them.


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## StackedLumber (Mar 2, 2010)

I've never really understood the "let a predator" live argument.  

If you believe in evolution, then survival of the fittest means you kill those that kill or attack what you a.) love (kids, pets, self) and b.) what you eat  (deer, chickens, turkeys)

If you believe in creation, then man's at the top of the food chain and has dominion over all by order of God.


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## Cluttermagnet (Mar 6, 2010)

Coyotes have recently been sighted and trapped in small numbers in my area, after many years with absolutely none around. I'm not particularly a 'woodsman' type. I don't hunt, but don't have anything against hunting, either. I like rabbit and venison, etc. In the case of a fox, rabid or otherwise, I'm pretty confident I could successfully defend myself and safely leave an area. Not that that should ever be necessary. They are pretty solitary hunters and fear man.

Coyotes are different. Bigger. Pack hunters. Aggressive, and apparently they *will * kill 'needlessly', the same way foxes will mess up a hen house- kill several, but drag off maybe one bird. No wolves around these parts, and bear sightings are extremely rare. But this coyote thing has started me debating internally whether or not I'd want to carry a sidearm in the woods (illegally in some local jurisdictions). I never would have had that debate prior to the reappearance of coyotes in the area. First more or less 'serious' predator around these parts in a very long while. Bear, wolves, big cats, even rattlesnakes have been hunted to near extinction in this part of the country.

For sure, I think I could easily start carrying some heat on the large private properties I cut wood on. (No problem getting the owners' permission to do that) Other than those places, I'm not 'in the woods' all that much anyway. I guess my chainsaw could be pretty menacing, too- but a firearm 'starts' a lot faster than a 2-cycle that might need a few squeezes of gas to prime it if cold.


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## zzr7ky (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi - 

I am an outdoors enthusiast and have been for decades.  I'm not a fan of leaving Coyotes to do as they please but the only serious threats I've faced have been packs of dogs.  Some with collars;  a nice looking Irish Setter lead one pack.   

Better living with proper tools and training. 

ATB, 
Mike P


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## JustWood (Mar 26, 2010)

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/coyote-caught-in-big-apple-18811789#video=18813523


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## Jay H (Mar 26, 2010)

ApproximateLEE said:
			
		

> http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/coyote-caught-in-big-apple-18811789#video=18813523



Yup, that was all over the news here around NYC. Found it on the lower west side, by canal st and the west side highway. They tranquilized it and are supposedly bringing it to the bronx zoo. 

As a wildlife lover, love to see it released to say the Catskills where there are already a natural coyote population but usually a coyote would not really wander to NYC, unless it can't catch prey/carrion which is generally easy to find in a city, or garbage.   Therefore, there is probably a good chance that the coyote might be old/diseased or both. Which makes it problemsome for relocation back to the wild.  If it can't get food in the wild, an easy solution is to move towards civilization.  happens with coyotes, deer, bears, humans... 

Jay


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## DavidV (Mar 28, 2010)

We have them here in Central VA.  10 years ago you didn't hear of it.  We have them in the area I live in.  I recently read an article that quoted a state wildlife study (not VA) where they looked at the stomach contents of a coyote taken in urban areas and most of them had cats as their last meals.  I know that they are starting to become a problem for farmers in our area....although most farm land around here has turned to residential developments.

When I was a kid in Culpeper we had problems with packs of wild dogs roaming and destroying livestock and attacking peoples housepets.  When I was out squirrel hunting if we saw packs of dogs we killed as many as we could.  I'm sure you would have Peta on you these days.  I haven't seen any coyote while I am deer hunting but if I did, I'd shoot them.  The state allows them to be hunted all year long.   If they become a serious problem here, I'm sure we will increase our hunting of them to compensate.


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## dogwood (Apr 2, 2010)

When the coyotes moved into our neck of Virginia a few years back the thing that disheartened us was that all the small wildlife on our land disappeared including rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, chipmunks, groundhogs, raccoons, foxes, and the like. Deer and mice seemed unaffected, but we missed the rest of the critters. On the other hand there was a lot less fruit removed from our home orchard by critters. The coyotes seem to have moved on after they had eaten everything alive. The wildlife has rebounded, except for the groundhogs, who I don't miss at all. Locals here think they have interbred with dogs to account for their small size relative to their western cousins. The ones here look considerably smaller than those I'd seen in Western Washington State when living there. At first I thought they were large foxes. They are incredibly fast and can turn on a dime. I watched one dodge traffic on Interstate 220 and was amazed. I was hoping they'd eat my neighbors dog who barks all night but no luck there.

Mike


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## Rustaholic (Apr 3, 2010)

I have been here at this location 34 years now.
We have a rabbit year then a coyote year or two then rabbits then coyotes,,,,,,,
Last Summer and all Winter it has been rabbits.
I sure hope the coyotes come back and eat the rabbits.
I have had coyotes in my back yard 15 feet from the house.
At the same time two dogs outside and the neighbor had 15 or 20 feral cats.
The coyotes ate the rabbits then left.

I had to shoot the feral cats.


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## Tony H (Apr 4, 2010)

We have coyote in the woods behind the house , there are about 30 acres of wooded land along the river (wish it was all mine) so we always hear howling at night and the population of small game drops and rebounds as they come and go. I prefer they go and we get back the fox that they ran off we have also spotted wolves and even had a bobcat living in the area and would see him hunting the bushes along the drive and garage at times. 
 The only time a coyote got too close was last year I was cleaning up an oak near the back of the yard about 20' from the start of the woods and he came up and started making that low growling like sound like hey this is my space. I was on the near side of the tree with a running chainsaw and I walked to the other side and got on my 4wheeler to go get a gun. Then one of the neighbor dogs spotted him and started barking him and heading toward him when he turned and walked the tree line for a bit and then turned into the woods. 
 I thought maybe he was sick or had rabies because they don't usually come anywhere near us , I see them along the edge of the woods early in the morning most of the time. I do like to keep the chipmunks in line but I wish they would get alot more squirrels.


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## gibson (Apr 4, 2010)

I posted earlier about the critter that I now believe to be an orphaned coyote that was wandering my neighborhood last summer.  We had a ton of rabbits last spring and no daffodils or tulips.  This year we have beautiful tulips and daffodils blooming, they all popped after the eight inches of rain followed by two days of 70 degrees.  Given the choice, I guess I'd go with the circle of life, and let the coyote do it's thing.  If I had feral cats around, I would buy some coyotes and transplant them.


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## Rustaholic (Apr 4, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> We have coyote in the woods behind the house , there are about 30 acres of wooded land along the river (wish it was all mine) so we always hear howling at night and the population of small game drops and rebounds as they come and go.  I see them along the edge of the woods early in the morning most of the time. I do like to keep the chipmunks in line but I wish they would get a lot more squirrels.



YOU are supposed to eat the squirrels.
Really,,, They are easy to skin and clean and taste great.


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## ROYJ24 (Apr 6, 2010)

Screw the coyotes!  My Husky got first dibs on rabbits, squirrels, & chipmunks.  Hope no one has to remove a half eaten rabbit from their yard. :ahhh:


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## Rustaholic (Apr 6, 2010)

ROYJ24 said:
			
		

> Screw the coyotes!  My Husky got first dibs on rabbits, squirrels, & chipmunks.  Hope no one has to remove a half eaten rabbit from their yard. :ahhh:



Get the rabbits before the husky does.
They taste great too.


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## Czech (Apr 8, 2010)

Francisella tularensis!


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## Tony H (Apr 8, 2010)

Rustaholic said:
			
		

> Tony H said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have eaten them but I prefer fish, Ham, turkey, and beef . I once made squirrel stew for easter but it was not too popular with the family!


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## Flatbedford (Apr 8, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> . I once made squirrel stew for easter but it was not too popular with the family!



They probably would have preferred rabbit stew.


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