# STIHL ISSUE



## Stihlmike (Aug 19, 2013)

Just got my Stihl last Friday. It cut very well until last Wednesday. The saw just cut out on me mid cut. I tried to start it and when you would give it gas it would just die. The primar ball will not take gas into it and when you press it you can hear air escaping from some where.

The air filter is not gummed up, and it ran when I took it off in the garage. I took it back to the dealership.

Anyone know what could be up?

Owners manual suggests that I check the muffler for obstructions that would not allow the exhaust to escape. Also states that the screen in the fuel tank could be clogged. I find this hard to believe since I had only cut 4 times with the saw before it went down.

Any help is appreciated.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 19, 2013)

I am not one of the more expert saw guys here, but it sounds very much like a fuel problem, nothing to do with the exhaust.  Given that the primer ball isn't moving gas and you can hear air hissing when you pump it, I'd say there's something wrong with either the primer itself or the fuel line before it, so that air is being pulled in instead of fuel.  Probably not a big deal.


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## smokinj (Aug 19, 2013)

Sounds more like the fuel filter.


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2013)

This is a brand new saw?  Totally cut out while running, or failed to start again after shut-down?

If cut out while running:  failed ignition module.  What we refer to as "infant mortality" in electronics.

If failed to start again after running okay:  you probably got it flooded.  Dry it out (remove air filter and spark plug, pull starter many times), and try again.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 19, 2013)

I had stopped cutting, and it cut out while idling. Tried to get it to go again. I could get it to run with it on half choke, but when i hit the gas and the choke would move to run, it would cut out. You can get it to run for a little while and open throttle, but as soon as you stop giving it gas and its warm it will shut off.

I am hoping the dealership can fix it but I am getting antsy knowing how much wood I have to get done before winter. I just don't want them to wait mid week to look at it, decide it needs parts, then I have to wait even longer until the parts get in.


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## Ashful (Aug 19, 2013)

Perhaps a vacuum leak. At idle, or with choke on, you develop maximum vacuum. When you go wide-open with choke off, vacuum is minimal, so if there's a leak, that's when it shows up. Particularly when you first punch the throttle, before the RPM's hit.

"how much wood I have to get done before winter," does not compute.  Wood cut today will in no way be ready to burn this year.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 19, 2013)

Carb issue if I ask me. Maybe ignition but if still sputtering???  Not sure how these units can fail. In outboards they can fail yet still spark partially. 

My stihl Is old enough to not have a primer bulb??


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## Stihlmike (Aug 19, 2013)

They are sending the saw to another dealership in the area to get worked on. It is still on my way home from work. I am hoping that the other dealership is backed up and is why they are sending it to a different dealership, and not because they don't know whats wrong......


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## MasterMech (Aug 19, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> The saw just cut out on me mid cut. I tried to start it and when you would give it gas it would just die. The primar ball will not take gas into it and when you press it you can hear air escaping from some where.


 
If the primer bulb re-inflates after you press it, either a fuel line has popped off a fitting or developed an air leak or the check valves in the primer assembly itself have gotten stuck.

If the primer sticks in after you press it, most likely the fuel line is pinched/clogged or the filter is hopelessly clogged.

Hopefully your dealer gets this sorted out rapidly.


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## cnice_37 (Aug 19, 2013)

Stihlmike.... time to become HuskyMike?  J/K

What model Stihl?  From what I can figure out, its a new saw, and has an air leak.  Primer bulb is very well the culprit.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 19, 2013)

i believe it is a ms 230 ce


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## MasterMech (Aug 19, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> i believe it is a ms 230 ce


Slam dunk repair under warranty would be to just replace the carburetor as long as the fuel filter/lines check out. I know Stihl would happily give a dealer a carb and .3 hrs to replace that carb as opposed to a fuel line, filter, carb kit and a full hours labor (or more) to repair it.


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## bogydave (Aug 19, 2013)

smokinj said:


> Sounds more like the fuel filter.


 
+1
I would've thought fuel filter or collapsed/plugged fuel line.
(assuming good fuel)
keep us posted


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## clemsonfor (Aug 19, 2013)

A new saw with a plugged fuel filter??  He could filter 100 gallons of fuel with that and be fine. Maybe a plastic hunk out of the filter clogged the line??  A casting imperfection


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## bogydave (Aug 19, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> A new saw with a plugged fuel filter?? He could filter 100 gallons of fuel with that and be fine. Maybe a plastic hunk out of the filter clogged the line?? A casting imperfection


 
That's what I was thinking,
new saw ?
some piece of plastic or manufacturing debris plugging the fuel some how.
Maybe not the fuel filter but I'd check it.  ( small piece of clear plastic wrap in the fuel tank ? )


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 19, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> They are sending the saw to another dealership in the area to get worked on. It is still on my way home from work. I am hoping that the other dealership is backed up and is why they are sending it to a different dealership, and not because they don't know whats wrong......


That does sound strange, unless you bought it from a hardware type store and their only tech is on vacation.

Sounds to me like the carb just needs a good tune.


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## Boog (Aug 19, 2013)

Ahh, the dreaded local Stihl dealer woes............. Got to go with it while its still under warranty.............. but once that ends, we'll all help you fix it here


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## DexterDay (Aug 19, 2013)

My dealer always has a loaner saw. If they are gonna have your saw for any extended time, then you can take there's. it ain't no Pro model, but it will keep your business going if that's what you do for a living (I know you don't, but if you NEED one, they should always have a loaner).


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## MasterMech (Aug 20, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> My dealer always has a loaner saw. If they are gonna have your saw for any extended time, then you can take there's. it ain't no Pro model, but it will keep your business going if that's what you do for a living (I know you don't, but if you NEED one, they should always have a loaner).


 I would love to provide something like that whether it be a mower, saw, trimmer, etc for my customers too.  But I keep thinking about the liability involved and it stops me from offering.  Especially with a saw.  I'm sure rental companies have insurance up the ying yang for such an occasion that someone injures themselves with a rental/loaner tool but honestly I really don't think I can afford additional insurance at this point.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 20, 2013)

But your didf MM. Your not a dealer. At a dealer a customer spent a lot of money to hopefully have a trouble free saw. When it breaks 6 months in that's a huge let down. They do it so there not as upset.   I see your point as it will make people happier and more ready to use ur shop but isee  where your coming from.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 20, 2013)

When it breaks 6 months in that's a huge let down.

I would have been happy with 6 months this was 4 days in.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 20, 2013)

I wouldn't make too much of this yet.  It's inconvenient, but one problem isn't a pattern and I still doubt it's a big deal.  I'd be more disappointed in the dealer than in the saw itself, because it seems likely that they could've handled this better.


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## Ashful (Aug 20, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> My dealer always has a loaner saw. If they are gonna have your saw for any extended time, then you can take there's. it ain't no Pro model, but it will keep your business going if that's what you do for a living (I know you don't, but if you NEED one, they should always have a loaner).


 
No disrespect meant toward the OP, but the dealer is going to handle a pro customer much differently than a guy who bought one rancher level saw. If a dealer has a loaner, it's probably an under the counter offering to make amends to a regular pro customer, not the home owner they met 5 days ago and sold one mid-level saw.


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## Foragefarmer (Aug 20, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> When it breaks 6 months in that's a huge let down.
> 
> I would have been happy with 6 months this was 4 days in.



I would bet there are more problems with new saws in the first week or two than the whole rest of the warranty period. That was the way it was when I was a motorcycle mechanic.


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## DexterDay (Aug 20, 2013)

Joful said:


> No disrespect meant toward the OP, but the dealer is going to handle a pro customer much differently than a guy who bought one rancher level saw. If a dealer has a loaner, it's probably an under the counter offering to make amends to a regular pro customer, not the home owner they met 5 days ago and sold one mid-level saw.



Tu-Chet..... 

Your prob right on that one. Didn't even look at it like that.


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## MasterMech (Aug 20, 2013)

I can tell you from experience that the dealer did not make a ton of money on the sale of that MS230.  But he's going to get paid to fix it and if he expects future business from Mike, it's in his best interest to get it fixed ASAP and keep the lines of communication open.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

The mechanic at the other facility said it was a big time carb issue, and had to order in a whole new carb. Hard to believe on a brand new saw, but it is what it is. They told me they could swap a carb off of another saw in the shop, but the salesman said he would rather order a new part in. I would rather them do it right, and not have to mess around again.

I will use my dads 18" craftsman to get by and try and fix up the old STIHL 015 L for practice, and have limbing saw.

I am not really happy, but stuff happens. It seems the salesman was trying to do the best he could to get it fit into the shop's schedule, and the service department at the shop was not complying with his requests, or him telling them it was just bought 4-5 days ago.

 It took a lot for me to spend that kind of money right now, and I anticipated a long time with no issues. I am hoping this was just a fluke on STIHL'S part, I would expect to get something like this from the Chinese, or 100-150 dollar saws. I read so many reviews on these types of having to take 3 saws back in 2 weeks. It seems these cheaper saws are "disposable" and you take it back and the big box store gives you a new one. For that reason I went with a real saw.

 I wish they would have checked it out last Thursday when I dropped it off, and ordered the new carb last week, I could be cutting this weekend.

Oh well better to have it done right than have them play Frankenstien with other saws. It bums me out because now I have a sour taste in my mouth about STIHL saws, and now receive constant badgering texts from my cousin about how I should have bought a Husky, but the posts on here are curing that quick. Done ranting on this, and seems like I will be back in business by next week. Not happy, but content with having the saw back soon.


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

Husky makes some nice saws, with performance equal to or sometimes beyond Stihl, but most here will tell you that Stihl is more durable.  This is an early fluke, it happens.  Shame on your dealer for not getting on it quicker.


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## MasterMech (Aug 21, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> now receive constant badgering texts from my cousin about how I should have bought a Husky


 
Husky has had their share of carburetor issues. Walbro HD-199 anyone? 

How about the 136's, 141's, 137's, and 142's with their mufflers falling off and horribly maladjusted carbs from the factory?

Give it right back to him. 

You're better off ordering a carb from the service parts stream rather than robbing one off the sales floor.  If there really is a "big time carb problem" then Stihl would be slipping updated parts into the service replacements while the new saw on the sales floor would likely have the same carb you had on yours.  They should be able to get that carb in 2-3 days with no issue if not next day.  And it's a real quick change-out.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

The salesman did tell me to come over and pick up a free spark plug for the 015 L and a free can of fuel treatment to help try and get it going.

 I know that most of this has nothing to do with them, and that it would be just my luck to get the 1 in 25,000 STIHL chainsaws that have a factory defective carb.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 21, 2013)

I see you signed up at arboristsite (welcome btw)......... see if the dealer will give you full purchase price credit towards a pro saw, it will save you a lot of money in the long run.  I started with an MS 210.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

I went over to pick up the plug and fuel treatment on lunch. Felt bad for being a pain on the guy, and end up giving him about 25 dollars worth of my custom flies. Just so happened he was going out fishing this afternoon, so I made his day. Man I am too easy. I wish I had my moms blood when it comes to that stuff. She would of had a new saw, and a free shirt LOL!!

Yep. I want to get as much knowledge as I can on chain saws and woodburners so I figured these are the two best forums I have found. I must admit I like to lurk a bit to get a feel for forums. This one seems to be one of the better ones with a ton of info and great moral.

He did tell me that i could take that and trade up to a pro saw but the money tree has already lost its leaves. I will start saving pennies.


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## MasterMech (Aug 21, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I wish I had my moms blood when it comes to that stuff. She would of had a new saw, and a free shirt LOL!!


 
Nobody really wants to be "that guy". Trust me.  I love my MIL but I'm pretty sure her picture is behind every cash register in the tri-county area.  And car dealerships have been warned.

I'm all for getting a better deal, but not at "any cost", especially my dignity. 




Stihlmike said:


> This one seems to be one of the better ones with a ton of info and great moral.


 
Just the fact that you were able to post here and not get blasted for buying a "homeowner" saw says a lot.  I know of many sites where the first post would have been "Buy a pro saw....." 

Believe me, I'm a fan of pro saws for sure, but I also own a MS230C-BE like yours. 



Stihlmike said:


> He did tell me that i could take that and trade up to a pro saw but the money tree has already lost its leaves. I will start saving pennies.


 
The MS230 is a good performer and durable enough to last a couple decades or more in the average homeowners care.  Plenty of members here running 021s, 023's, 025s in addition to the newer MS210's, MS230's, and MS250's.  All the same design with many interchangeable parts.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

I figured it will last me for a few years anyway. I plan on upgrading but needed something to get me by for now, and still run after i get a new saw. Yeah I am not that guy. I just wanted my saw back to be honest. Of course I was ticked about it, but it is what it is. He told me he would have gave me a new saw today, but to be honest what good would that do. When they get my saw back it will have to be re conditioned or sent out, and in the long run cost everyone more money. I'll be happy when i get my saw back, and did not have to get a bad rep at the dealership. I would hate for them to be like "OH here comes that guy".. I figured giving the guy some flies, will let hime know I mean no malice towards him or the dealership, and in the long run if something else comes up they may help me out again, or put me in front of someone for not being "that guy"

Carb issue:

The salesman told me that one of the jets was not functioning properly and was allowing a lot of air to be mixed with the gas.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

They should of swapped it so u could use it then let u dropit off when things were slow for you. It takes 5 minutes to pull the carb on my stihl.


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## MasterMech (Aug 21, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> They should of swapped it so u could use it then let u dropit off when things were slow for you. It takes 5 minutes to pull the carb on my stihl.


 What's the dealer supposed to do with the "loaner" carb once the OP's saw is repaired? Can't really put it back on the new saw....

How would you feel if the new saw you bought had a used carburetor on it?


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

By the way I took it they had some parts saws or something g sitting around???  I didn't mean one off a brand new one.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

No they meant take it off of one on the show room floor. I just priced a new carb it is about 70 bucks. If they would have done that I doubt they would have made any and probably lost money on the deal. I did not want to hurt their business at all. It is hard enough times around here as it is. Plus my dad is giving me his backup saw, so I will still be able to cut wood. Looking back I wish I would not have gotten so snippy about this, but I am cheap and spending that kind of money was like selling my first born son. LOL So when it died it rubbed me the wrong way.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

My 14 month old, Corbin, still like Stihl.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

If they swamped it off one on the floor when ur warrenty Carb came in it would go on the new floor model.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

Oh yea I'm picky too. I'm anxiously awaiting my sons arrival in early November!!


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## MasterMech (Aug 21, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> If they swamped it off one on the floor when ur warrenty Carb came in it would go on the new floor model.


Remember, supposedly there is a "big time carb problem" with this model.  So better for all parties to wait for the new carb IMO.  Can be had in a day or two and is a quick install.


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Oh yea I'm picky too. I'm anxiously awaiting my sons arrival in early November!!


 
Assuming you mean birth of your child, and not that he's just flying in from Albuquerque... congratulations!


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

Yea if that's the case MM I agree and not just that his Carb had a galled jet or something? 

 And yea joful waiting on his birth!!   I'm only 31 but I guess these days people my age have 15 yr olds!


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

Im 25 so i figured the sooner I have them the sooner I can kick them out. LOL just kidding on that one. he is my buddy and future outdoorsman. He loves turkeys as much as his dad. He is a big time flirt and even smacked a pretty blond clerk at Gymboree yesterday while waiting on the cell phone people. LOL THATS MY BOY!


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## clemsonfor (Aug 21, 2013)

I bought my stihl when I was 22. That $450 or so I spent on the 390 was huge then. I went for the biggest homeowners saw I could get. Wanted an 440 but didn't think I could stomach the $200 more it would cost then.


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## DexterDay (Aug 21, 2013)

I know people with 023's and 025's that have ran the chit out of them for close to 20 yrs. Still run strong. The 021-025 (210-250) is a nice homeowner saw and should last you a very long time. Don't getba sour taste yet. I've had quite a few Husqs (homeowner and Pro) and I Stihl prefer Stihl  

Give the dealer a chance.  Sometimes there are fluke events. Just be glad you bought a new saw and have a good 2 yr warranty.  As for buying homeowner saws. The other site will tell you a used Pro saw is better, and it may be, but the model you bought is a proven one and I wouldn't mind owning one  I'd put a 12" bar on a new 250 and do a Muff mod Make it a screamin little limber!!  

Wait it out... It will be worth it. Till then, cut as much as you can. ASAP!


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## HittinSteel (Aug 21, 2013)

I agree, The 210 and Dad's 041 farm boss would have done nicely for everything firewood. I got bit by the bug though


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## Ashful (Aug 21, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I'd ... do a Muff mod Make it a screamin little limber!!


 
Just wait until that warranty expires, before doing so.


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## DexterDay (Aug 21, 2013)

Joful said:


> Just wait until that warranty expires, before doing so.



He might.... I would MM right away. I have a Tri port on my 460. Within months of ownership.  

Again, I said "I'd"  

A stock muff is easy enough to come by. If he in fact wanted to. Then just put Fac Muff back on.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 21, 2013)

I wanted to learn how to create a ported muffler. Not for my new saw but the old one I found the other day. Would you suggest buying a new one to keep original, and then modifying the old one. I work as a designer at a fab shop and could get them to make the pieces and weld them in for probably a 6 pack.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 22, 2013)

Ports are on some newer saws and pro saws. You want to just modd it or cut more hole or bigger holes. Porting is widening either the intake or exhaust port,  the while behind the muffler into the cyl. 

You can go as large as 80% of the exhaust port on ur outlet holes on ur muffler.

Sorry this is not a step by step thread but I'm on my phone now.

But I think u need to focus o. Getting that 015 running first. Also pull the muff to make sure that cyl and or piston is not scored.


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2013)

Yeah, just a little confusion on terminology.  Porting an engine refers to enlarging the cross section of the exhaust or intake runs.  I'm sure you've heard the term "ported and polished," with reference to car engine heads and/or intake manifolds.  What you're inquiring about is a "dual port" muffler, where a second hole is drilled in the can to permit more airflow.

This serves to increase air flow, and provide a little better top-end horsepower, usually at some sacrifice to low-end torque.  Usually, you want to keep the overall cross section of muffler outlet(s) does not exceed 80% of the exhaust port (on the engine).  Going larger will cause a loss of too much back pressure (idling problems, total loss of low-end power, possible heating problems).  Most also want to give some consideration of noise and the spark arresting characteristics of the muffler, when adding ports to the muffler.  Remember, when you're using that saw, you're usually surrounded by piles of woodchips and drying firewood stacks.

Like clemsonfor said... get the saw running first, then you can have some muffler fun.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 22, 2013)

Joful said:


> What you're inquiring about is a "dual port" muffler, where a second hole is drilled in the can to permit more airflow. This serves to increase air flow, and provide a little better top-end horsepower, usually at some sacrifice to low-end torque


 
I've never modified a saw in any way, but now I want to braze a ball valve onto a muffler so I can adjust its behavior on the fly.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 22, 2013)

Well your going to have to weld a screwdriver onto the "H" screw in the carb and have it hanging out of the air cover to also adjust the carb on the fly, to keep from leaning the saw out when you "adjust your muffler" on the fly. If you lean it to long you can score pistons and cyls and possibly gernade the thing and or lock it up.


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## Jon1270 (Aug 22, 2013)

Yeah, I thought of that but the notion was too intoxicating not to mention it.  I didn't say it was a *good* idea.


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## MasterMech (Aug 22, 2013)

Maybe I should go look at my MS230 and see what, if anything, you could do that would have worthwhile gains.....


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## MasterMech (Aug 22, 2013)

Joful said:


> Just wait until that warranty expires, before doing so.


Honestly, most dealership techs would hardly know the difference if the Muffler Mod was done clean and professional like.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 22, 2013)

I still would not take my saw to the shop with a modded muff if I had a real problem say like my oiler stopped working (well that has nothing to do with muff). Well say the new Carb leans out randomly and causes your piston to score and you have a modded muff. They sure will deney it if they catch the muff mod.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 22, 2013)

could you not purchase another stock muffler to put back on. I think they are like 15 dollars off of ebay. Do you really gain much on something as small as my ms 230 c


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## Stihlmike (Aug 22, 2013)

The place I work for used to be a Stihl Dealer. The decided to focus only on truck equipment right as I started. I did not know it but when they got rid of the Stihl stuff I could have got it for 25% below cost. 

One of the upper management guys who bought 3 or 4 saws when this happened offered me his MS 660 to borrow until my saw came back. I declined, as I know that using that saw would have cost me a lot of money, as I would have wanted to upgrade instantly.  

Instead i spent last evening splitting wood with the maul I bought at lows. My chop block was not hard or green so it made for an interesting splitting adventure to say the least.


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## Ashful (Aug 22, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> One of the upper management guys who bought 3 or 4 saws when this happened offered me his MS 660 to borrow until my saw came back. I declined, as I know that using that saw would have cost me a lot of money, as I would have wanted to upgrade instantly.


MS660 is a serious saw.  Your 230 would feel slow and underpowered, after getting used to the 660, which is the trouble I'm having using my 036 now.  That said, the 660 is a heavy beast...


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## Mastermind (Aug 23, 2013)

It's a Stihl........that's the problem.

Shoulda got a Wildthing.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 23, 2013)

Randy, you need an avatar if you're going to stick around. The Austin Powers man symbol is not flattering.


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## Mastermind (Aug 23, 2013)

I can't use my "normal" avatar......it seems that there's a gun ban in effect.....


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## clemsonfor (Aug 23, 2013)

huh, what?  They wont let a pic of a gun be used or is this a joke, like your "gun"?


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## HittinSteel (Aug 23, 2013)

oh yeah, that is frowned upon here.


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## Mastermind (Aug 23, 2013)

I probably won't hang around.......too many sites......too little time.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 23, 2013)

HittinSteel said:


> oh yeah, that is frowned upon here.


 Huh??? Really?

Thats strange!

I know its a fireplace and wood site but still? 

I know i sometimes ebb and flow with the forums im in. I have tried going back to some of the ones i use to be on years ago and the folks are different, my pass code did not work and i could not log in. But it was strange to see that everyone had join dates far after mine and only the "big dogs" were still posting.  another site forestry forum, some recognize me and others are new and dont, but that place is kind of dead so there is not much instant gratification or back n forth there. They have a decent chainsaw section and good forestry section but i hate answering a question and askin for more details and it takes 3 days to get an answer from the OP.  Now a days im am in the office more and with cell phones there is more access.


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## DexterDay (Aug 23, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It's a Stihl........that's the problem.
> 
> Shoulda got a Wildthing.




Welcome..... Guy from Tennessee, eh?? I heard about you folks  

Your a well known man here... 

As for the Wildthing... If you slap an 880 jug on it? It really wakes them up


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## Mastermind (Aug 23, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Welcome..... Guy from Tennessee, eh?? I heard about you folks
> 
> Your a well known man here...
> 
> As for the Wildthing... If you slap an 880 jug on it? It really wakes them up


 
Wilder Thang.....


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## MasterMech (Aug 24, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I probably won't hang around.......too many sites......too little time.


I dunno, they talk about pie every so often over in the Inglenook forum......


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## Mastermind (Aug 24, 2013)

Pie?


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## clemsonfor (Aug 24, 2013)

Wow now I have not seen o poulan run like that!!  That thing runs like a 55 CC saw!!


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## DexterDay (Aug 24, 2013)

That lil Wild Thing has been touched by magical hands  

Masterminded..... just sayin


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## Boog (Aug 25, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Yea if that's the case MM I agree and not just that his Carb had a galled jet or something?
> 
> And yea joful waiting on his birth!! I'm only 31 but I guess these days people my age have 15 yr olds!


 
I was 40 when I had my first ........................ she's finally headed off to KSU in the fall.  Forty four when I had my second.  You've got plenty of time to raise a family .


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

Will be picking my saw up tomorow evening at the other facility. It is on my way home from work so I informed them I would stop in and pick it up to save them a trip to the facility closer to my place of work.

I am still a bit uneasy over going back to this dealer for any work. It is reassuring that the president of the business did reply to my complaint email. He responded at 6:00 yesterday evening, and also informed me at 9:15 this morning of when the saw would be done.  He informed me that he would make special arrangements for me to pick it up after hours if necessary. I am still waiting on the sales man to give me a heads up on when this issue will be solved, even though I already know because of the president.

Given what happened here would I be wise to seek out a new dealer, or should I give them another chance. I understand that the min parts order dilema was out of their hands, but do you think they should have contacted another dealer to get the parts needed to fix the saw. This is my biggest gripe of the whole issue, that my saw was left sitting there for a whole week.

The old saying gos: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

How would you go about finding out about a dealers service record, if you have an issue with your saw should you ask when the saw would be done from the get go?


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## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2013)

As for things sitting at the shop......we do over 200 saws a year. That's not a huge amount of work, but for just two of us it's a work load. Right now if you sent me a saw, it would be a month before you got it back.....


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

The difference that I see is that i bought this trough the dealer and it is warranty work, not giving to a private mechanic to upgrade. I would know going into giving you my saw that I would expect a wait time.


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## MasterMech (Aug 28, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> As for things sitting at the shop......we do over 200 saws a year. That's not a huge amount of work, but for just two of us it's a work load. Right now if you sent me a saw, it would be a month before you got it back.....


Had the same problem when I worked at a Deere dealer.  At any given time, we had upwards of 300 active work-orders (I'm including all categories of equipment, not just saws) at peak season.  Even spread out amongst 4 main techs you still weren't getting your equipment back in less than 30 days.  Was not uncommon for us to be six weeks back in early June.  But what do you do?  Hire two more techs and lay them off every year when the work dies down in Sept?  

Even still however, we would triage incoming equipment and blow through the easy stuff before tackling a big job.  Carb rebuilds/replacements, routine maint, ignition problems all got blown out as fast as we could strap parts to 'em.

Hey Randy, you hiring?


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## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2013)

Nope, not hiring. 

I see what you mean Mike......I do any return right away.


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## Prof (Aug 28, 2013)

Mike,

Just so you know, Fry's in Altoona has always treated me right. He really focuses on Stihls and I've been impressed with what he knows. When I need chains sharpened, he's the guy I go to--he's been able to bring a few chains back to life that I thought were done after hitting nails. I've checked out other dealers in the area but have not been impressed.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

Will be learning a lot more about small engines to do this stuff on my own. I know that I have a 2 year warranty but what good would it be if I don't have a saw for 3 weeks in the heart of the cutting season.

Randy,

Was watching some of your videos last night. The sound of those highly tuned engines was driving my labrador insane as she thought there was a fly buzzing around. Looks like you got your rpms on your saws, tuned to that of horsefly. Great videos!


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

Thanks prof,

I have had a few pms on this site as well as others, referring me to Fry's. I was going with these guys because of their locations in relation to my work. I may just have to make the trip, "down over the mountain" to check them out instead.

By the way do you know why the power went out the other night. I looked up on the hill and did not see any lights one up there. Benscreek was totally knocked out.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 28, 2013)

The min order thing cold be solved with a $14 freight charge,  to keep a customer happy.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

I would have paid the 14 dollars to get my saw back last week  oh well it is what it is, you live and you learn I guess. Got some good insights on better dealers to go with from now on. Cant wait to get out cutting with a good saw.

 Not so sure what I would do if it was more than the carb, or if it cuts out again after a few days.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 28, 2013)

I am not sure what the freight cost would be to them I just know I can get a pretty decent size box through one of my parts places that I buy online from for $14. They ship fed ex and you pay shipping costs.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

I had contacted Prof's suggested business and expressed my conscerns with the other dealer and got back a rather nice email. This is what stuck out to me:

" When my husband finished reading your email he said and I quote "1) I would have found the defective carburetor when servicing the saw at the point of sale. 2) I have the carburetor on the shelf. And 3) I would have replace the carburetor in front of him while he waited." That is the way my husband does business. As he says time and time again, "We're all about customer service here." "

I think I will be making a trip to visit this place and believe that have might be my go to dealer in the future. Wether or not he could have found the defective carb as quick as he says is subjective, but the fact that he has a large amount of parts on hand, and the fact he would service the engine right in front of me, is enough to get me to stop in at his shop. It seems that this shop is about saws, and power equipment, and not just selling saws as another back up source of income.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 28, 2013)

Anyone would say that but I'd it is true he had it in stock that's a good sign.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 28, 2013)

Yep, as I said it is subjective, but worth taking a trip to check out the parts inventory and such, and meet them. Being referenced by another member in my immediate area is also a good thing.

Not saying I will go with them, on an email alone, but they sound like good people focusing on saws.


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## basod (Aug 28, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Yep, as I said it is subjective, but worth taking a trip to check out the parts inventory and such, and meet them. Being referenced by another member in my immediate area is also a good thing.
> 
> Not saying I will go with them, on an email alone, but *they sound like good people focusing on saws*.


Focusing on customers is more like it.  I've got 2 Stihl dealers equal distance from the house one sells JD's the Kubota, bought a Cub tiller at the Kubota one and they wouldn't let me load it on the truck without taking it back and checking fluids,nuts bolts belts etc. - And slapping their sticker on it
Been to the other dealer 3 times for bars&chains without luck and my coworker dropped $80 to have his generator(unsuccessfully) repaired there - they won't see my business again.

I've found that most of the quality sales outfits have the actual owner of the store sitting at a desk off the showroom - not some college flunky selling you saws and tractors on commission


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## Stihlmike (Aug 29, 2013)

After 2 weeks I get to pick her up today.

 Anything special I need to do since it has a new carb on it. Is there a break in period or anything like that? Just don't want to have to go through all of this again.

Sidenote: The president of their company did email me this morning at 7:16 to ensure my contact information and the best way to get a hold of me to let me know the saw is done. I hope to heck that the saw is done by  5:00 today when I am going into the dealership.


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## Ashful (Aug 29, 2013)

I think the trouble in all of this is your username.  You jinxed yourself!


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## Stihlmike (Aug 29, 2013)

You may be right. I hope this was just a fluke issue. I was so impressed with how the saw ran the first few cutting trips that it made me pick that username. I should have stuck with my go to bowmike that i use on other forums. I will be out later today cutting with her. I will let you know how she does. If something else gos wrong I may try and switch out for a non lemon. LOL


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## clemsonfor (Aug 29, 2013)

no break in the carb is seperate from the saw. Assuming they tuned the new carb, but i think the things are just set as they say on the saw, X-many turns out. Its once you mod or really get into it you rip the limiter tabs off and start tuning the carb.


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## Stihlmike (Aug 29, 2013)

Just got a call from STIHL corporate. I was surprised that they sided with the dealer and the parts issue. He told me that a dealer would have to pay a large freight charge on a single part order. I would have happily paid this charge in order to be back in business.

The day I brought the saw in to the original dealership, I had asked for a loaner saw, and was told that they do not offer any loaner/rental saws. The other dealership appearantly does, and the STIHL corporate individual told me that the service manager told him he would have gave me a loaner saw if I would have asked.

I am beginning to think this was a big case of miscommunication from the original dealership to the other place. I should have contacted the place that had my saw was sent the day that it was sent to them. I feel that my initial thought of the service department causing the issue was unjust, and now realize that it was the salesman not communicating my needs with them. I will be picking up my saw, and feel I may owe the guy at the other shop an appology for getting so bent out of shape over the issue. It seems like a lot it was out of his hands, and the salesman was not communicating to me directly, what this salesmanager was telling him. It seems that the guy was actually doing the best he could to get me my saw, behind the scenes.

I still am not sure if I will be going back to them, and may seek the other dealer, for the fact that they have a better parts inventory on hand. THe service tech at the location I sent my saw is a gold cerified STIHL technician.


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## DexterDay (Aug 29, 2013)

A good dealer... Would have properly "tuned" the saw with the new carb on it.  Rather than just putting it on and saying it's Good to Go!!

If you know what it used to sound like or watched any tuning vids. Make sure it burbles, or four stroke. And clean up in the cut. 

Things happen for a reason. Lesson learned.  Now get out there and cut some wood. Slacker  (j/k)


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## Stihlmike (Aug 29, 2013)

She cut better today than when I first got it. I may take it to the other dealer ti check it out and be sure. Glad I got it back and cut 2 trees in the time it took me to cut 3 sections with the craftsman. Glad to be back in the game!


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## clemsonfor (Aug 29, 2013)

Put a new chain on the craftsman or take it to ur new shop to be sharpened. 

Does the oil level in resivoir go down, do u get the oil line like we said u should to check if boiler is working?  I don't remember?   A dull chain will make heat like that!!  I have had a dull chain and tried to finish a load as I had no file. It was to hot to touch the bar as well,  my boiler works and was working at that rime.


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## MasterMech (Aug 30, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Just got a call from STIHL corporate. I was surprised that they sided with the dealer and the parts issue. He told me that a dealer would have to pay a large freight charge on a single part order. I would have happily paid this charge in order to be back in business. The day I brought the saw in to the original dealership, I had asked for a loaner saw, and was told that they do not offer any loaner/rental saws. The other dealership appearantly does, and the STIHL corporate individual told me that the service manager told him he would have gave me a loaner saw if I would have asked.​


 
Keep in mind that you don't know what the dealer told Corporate about your case.  And yes, once the sale is complete, you're better off dealing directly with the service department than using your saleman as a go between.  Some sales personell are knowledgable and will go the distance to keep you happy but the bottom line is they make zilch whether you get your saw back or not.  Their end of the deal is done and any further time invested is simply goodwill.

And what kind of dealer doesn't keep a carb in stock for a 021/023/025/MS210/MS230/MS250?  (All the same family.)


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## Stihlmike (Aug 30, 2013)

I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.

The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.

This saw has the easy to start mechanism on it as well. I was wondering if buying the carbide chain is worth the extra money. I am looking to see if an 18" bar will work for this saw as well. I think the 16 is perfect and gets the optimum power from the saw but think it may work well on the saw.

I looked at the muffler and it has 3 vents on it with a screen behind it. Is this a factory port or just the standard muffler design. I may take it to the other dealer that prof suggested to look over it again, and be sure that the carb and everything is tuned correctly. Will be cutting today, tomorow, sunday, and monday morning 

THe tech said that on orders onder 150.00 or so the frieght charge would have been 10.00. I would have gladly spent the ten dollars to get an extra 10 days and possibly 1-2 chords done instead of being that far behind and maybe having to spend 150.00 per chord to make up for it.

I still may wait until mid winter, or spring to install the burner. I want to be sure that the wood is seasoned at least a year, even the standing dead stuff, before I look at burning anything. I think this may be the best idea. It will allow me to cut for next year, this year, and start cutting for 2015-2016 burning season in the spring and get ahead of the game.


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## Ashful (Aug 30, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.
> 
> The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.
> 
> ...


 
Whoa there... Mr. Stream of Consciousness pants. Can't keep track of which saw you're talking about when... but to hit on a few items:

Buy a couple loops of Stihl 33-RS or 33-RSC chain (add a -3 at the end if you want the "safety chain" version) for each saw. It's the best full-chisel all-purpose chain for a mid-sized saw, and used my many hearth.com'ers.

Carbide chain is good for someone who knows they're going to be getting to roots (rocks / dirt), but they're very hard to sharpen. Stihl recommends only using a diamond wheel ($150) on your chain grinder for sharpening these chains. I cannot imagine sharpening carbide by hand, and it will cost you $15 - $25/chain to get them professionally sharpened in 20" size, as opposed to $4 - $5 for the same 33-RSC at 20".

The burbling that was previously mentioned is a wide-open-throttle / max RPM. Don't hold it there for more than a second or three, but when you rev it wide open, you should hear a bit of burbling (referred to as "four-stroking") with no load. If you do this, and then put it to the wood, it should clean up and run smooth under load.

Re: your dad's sharpening. Some chains are sharpened strait, but not most chains used by a home owner on a Craftsman saw. Different chains are sharpened with different diameter files, and there are three angles defining the grind. These are typically referred to as:

top plate: typically around 30 degrees
grind angle: typically around 60 degrees (defined as the complimentary 30 degrees on some grinders)
vise tilt: typically 0 to 15 degrees, most often 10 degrees, and ignored by many


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## Stihlmike (Aug 30, 2013)

Glad you filled me in on the carbide chain. I don't think I will be getting it. 

Was looking at picking up a spare chain as well so you pretty much answered my question.  My dad was adimate with using oregon chains and bars on his craftsman. He gave me 4 chains and 2 extra bars for the craftsman. Do you feel that Oregon chains and bars are better than STIHL?

I also want to get the file tool this weekend. I did see an electric sharpener at the dealership, but think this would actually be harder to work with than the standard file. I want to be sure to have a PROPERLY sharpened chain at all times while cutting.  I think for now I want to go with the safety chain version until I get more time behind the saw.


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## Ashful (Aug 30, 2013)

Well, the Oregon Vanguard stuff they sell at home stores and hardware stores is a homeowner chain, and it's good at requiring less frequent sharpening, but it's pretty slow for cutting. You can ID that chain pretty quick by the semi-chisel cutters (look like a ? in cross-section, versus full chisel, which looks like a 7), and the hooked over depth gauges. Google Images is your friend, on chain ID.

When you get into pro chain, Oregon vs. Stihl don't matter. In fact, most of the other brand chains you will buy are really made by Oregon. If you're going to buy Oregon, then you'd be looking for the H47, as the equivalent to Stihl's 33-RSC. These are both 3/8" pitch x 0.050" guage full-chisel chains. Check the markings on your bars to confirm this is what you need, but I'll bet that's what they take (3/8" x 0.050").

Stihl's full-chisel safety chain is 33-RSC3 (or 33-RS3... they keep changing their nomenclature). I'm sure there's a safety version of the Oregon H47, but I don't know what it is... any REAL saw dealer can help. There's also an equivalent Carlton... my dealer uses all three interchangeably, depending on who has the best pricing at the time they're buying their spools.

My advice on sharpening, even though it's not what I did myself... buy the right hand files (5/32" for Stihl 33-RSC, I think?), a depth gauge, and a straight mill file, and learn to sharpen by hand. Don't bother with electric sharpeners, unless you're doing a boatload of cutting, and can't keep up by hand. You won't be good at first, but you'll get good quick, and you'll always appreciate having that skill in your back pocket.

Me? I bought a full bench-mount chain grinder, and I can work thru a bunch of chain real fast with it. But, I also took a lot of life out of several chains early on, learning to get good at it. It works for me, since I keep a toolbox full of spare chains with me while I'm cutting, and just swap out when one gets dulled. I take the pile of chains into the garage after a weekend of cutting, and spend an evening during the week sharpening in the comfort of my garage. It's what works for me, but not the cheapest route for a beginner.

_edit: photo of my toolkit / spare chains at the bottom of this thread:  _https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/36-bar.111572/page-2


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## clemsonfor (Aug 30, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Keep in mind that you don't know what the dealer told Corporate about your case. And yes, once the sale is complete, you're better off dealing directly with the service department than using your saleman as a go between. Some sales personell are knowledgable and will go the distance to keep you happy but the bottom line is they make zilch whether you get your saw back or not. Their end of the deal is done and any further time invested is simply goodwill.
> 
> And what kind of dealer doesn't keep a carb in stock for a 021/023/025/MS210/MS230/MS250? (All the same family.)


 
 honestly was thinking the same thing?  kind of like what dealer does not have a bar or chain for those saws?


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## clemsonfor (Aug 30, 2013)

Joful said:


> Well, the Oregon Vanguard stuff they sell at home stores and hardware stores is a homeowner chain, and it's good at requiring less frequent sharpening, but it's pretty slow for cutting. You can ID that chain pretty quick by the semi-chisel cutters (look like a ? in cross-section, versus full chisel, which looks like a 7), and the hooked over depth gauges. Google Images is your friend, on chain ID.
> 
> When you get into pro chain, Oregon vs. Stihl don't matter. In fact, most of the other brand chains you will buy are really made by Oregon. If you're going to buy Oregon, then you'd be looking for the H47, as the equivalent to Stihl's 33-RSC. These are both 3/8" pitch x 0.050" guage full-chisel chains. Check the markings on your bars to confirm this is what you need, but I'll be that's what they take (3/8" x 0.050").
> 
> ...


 I agree with this. I have the harborfreight grinder and its amazing. I am a decent hand filer but this will get them good every time. But you will whack 25% of a tooth if not paying close attention to the settings when you start a new chain.  Its only $29 so its not much more than some of the other chain gemmicks out there and for a homeowner like me it works and is worth it.  I almost never handfile anymore but i am also not whacking my chains up anymore, i can easily get 8 sharpenings out of the grinder maybe more, yes more wear than hand fileing but i also sharpen my chains every few trips out as i dont hit dirt and i dont cut that much each time.  I keep several chains with me to swap and now take a backup saw with a chain as well.


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## clemsonfor (Aug 30, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.
> 
> The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.
> 
> ...


 
OK a few things. Dont put any alcohol fuel addative in a 2stroke. Only thing i would add is stabil or seafoam. And most high quality oil, stihl and Husky i know have a fuel stabilizer in it, so your really wasting your money there, i have had the stuff sit for a year with husky oil and not a problem no hint of stale smell.

The burple like Joful said is at wide open.   At idle it should just sound like bmm, bmmm, bmmmb,bmmm ,bm , bm maybe it should be steady, and you may get some stumble or some shorter bmm's but it should not "lope" it should be steady not up and down. 

Your CARB is NOT adjusted right i know as there should be ZERO hesitation from an idle to grabbing the throttle to wide open, should go grab throttle/rev all the way instantly. NOT grab throttle/waaaa-then take take off. This means your L screw is not adjusted right, this in coridination with the Idle screw LA i think its called are not adjusted for peak rpms (read a description of tuneing a saw for this to make sense).  It could still "4 stroke" at WOT though and be fine up top?????? dont know, but if you have ever run your saw out of fuel, you know how it leans out as there is not enough fuel and the RPMs speed way up before it cuts off....THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT YOUR SAW to sound like all the time.  NOT that clean high RPM sound while reving it.
The new dealer should be able to adjust the carb to take out the hesitation for free for you. Or since you want to learn do it yourself as you will have to one day.

As to the holes in the muffler, since the saw is brand new, yes this is your factory muffler. You can call it the Muffler port, but you do not have an additional port in your muffler or a "ported" saw. Its factory?  ALso the screen is the spark arrester, i pull it out as its more restriction but you need to check carb settings if you do, and all saws have different holes and patters i guess yours is a 3 hole design?  My factory 390 had 2 oveled holes?

Dont worry, your grasping the learning curve here. Hang in with us. Once your warrenty ends or you want to get adventurous you will have a muffler mod on that thing!!


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## Stihlmike (Aug 30, 2013)

THANKS SO MUCH! you guys are really helping me understand. I am glad that I found this forum and cant think of how much money I would have wasted on things that are not that great or what they are hyped up to be. The saw does do the bum bummm buuumm at idle. I thought that was the noise joful was talking about. i may try and take a video of the saw and put it up to try and let you guys see for sure. The last thing I want is for the saw to cut out on me again.


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## DexterDay (Aug 30, 2013)

No. The burble is at wide open throttle. It should idle low enough to stay running, but not so high that the chain moves.  If the chain moves, then lower the idle. 

Trying turning the L screw a 1/4 counterclockwise.  Then try and go to WOT. If that didnt help, go back to where you were (1/4 clockwise) and then go another 1/8-1/4 turn clockwise). 

Would behoove you to watch a tuning video to better understand how to "hear" what your saw needs.


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## MasterMech (Aug 30, 2013)

Holy information overload batman!  Lots of well meaning but inaccurate info there boys....  

Mike, go check out the other dealer.  While you're there, pick up a Stihl file kit for .325 chain as it will have everything you need to get started hand filing your own chains. Check out those Stihl videos for a sharpening how-to.  

Ask him for a loop of 26RS-62 (I think it's 62 links for the 16" on that saw.....) and make sure the label on the box is yellow, not green.  Hell, buy two if you want.  

You're muffler is stock and I think you should leave it that way until either the warranty is up or you just can't stop yourself. 

Stick with the 16" bar setup.  You will gain little going to the 18.  Also Stihl chain is the best IMO but oregon isn't bad at all.  But no reason to prefer it over Stihl other than price.  

And since you're picking up a few goodies he will most likely re-adjust that carb for you for free.  If he's really trying to win you over, he will show you how to do it too.


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## Ashful (Aug 30, 2013)

26RS?  That's .325" x .063"!  Who runs that?

<-- bought and/or sold 6 saws in the last two years, and all of them over 40cc ran .375" x .050"


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## MasterMech (Aug 30, 2013)

Joful said:


> 26RS?  That's .325" x .063"!  Who runs that?
> 
> <-- bought and/or sold 6 saws in the last two years, and all of them over 40cc ran .375" x .050"


The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory.  Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.


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## Nixon (Aug 30, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Mike, go check out the other dealer.  While you're there, pick up a Stihl file kit for .325 chain as it will have everything you need to get started hand filing your own chains. Check out those Stihl videos for a sharpening how-to.



Mike , while you are down there buying that file kit for .325 chain , buy the ff1 roller guide for .325 chain . Costs about 12 bucks . It locks your file holder to 30* ,so it make hand filing pretty easy . It even comes with a dvd on how to use it !
Recently picked up one for .375 and .325 , they work well.


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## HittinSteel (Aug 30, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory. Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.


 
.325 is what I ran on my 260 and now run on the 346.

.325 RSC is some darn nice chain


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## Ashful (Aug 30, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory. Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.


 
Wow... you learn things here.  Good thing I told him to double-check the markings on his bar, before buying chain!  

I've never even seen a 0.325 x 0.063 chain!    Seems odd to run such a wide gauge on such a small saw.  I never saw any 0.063" on any bar under 36", and then you're talking 0.375" or 0.404".


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## clemsonfor (Aug 30, 2013)

I think they ordered it at work for their baby saws running 325. They for new bars too.

I think the saw shop guy said something about running 63 when you 50 bat gets sloppy? But this is hearsay from their conversation after they bought the 63?


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## TreePointer (Aug 31, 2013)

If you're not sure, don't guess.  Take your bar with you to the dealer.  It will have stamped on it the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links required.


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## MasterMech (Aug 31, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> I think they ordered it at work for their baby saws running 325. They for new bars too.
> 
> I think the saw shop guy said something about running 63 when you 50 bat gets sloppy? But this is hearsay from their conversation after they bought the 63?


Excellent way to ruin good chain.  If your bar is worn then its time for a new bar, not a chain upgrade.


----------



## clemsonfor (Aug 31, 2013)

Didn't say I would do it. A saw shop told him that!!  I was like I don't think that's how it works??


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## Stihlmike (Sep 1, 2013)

You guys arent going to believe this. Took the saw out at 7 am saturday morning. Foubdca fewcdecent standing dead trees to add to the wood pile. Mixed up some 92 octane and premium stihl oil. Went to start the say and it just wouldnt start. You gotta be kidding me. It never even attempted to start. Got frustrated and called the other dealer. The woman there told me tge steps to clear a flooded engine. Took it down to my dads and it was in deed flooded. I removed the blug and dried it off. Flipped the saw overand pulled the chord to clear the pist. In of gas. Took a cle my an dry rag and cleared the engine and carb areas of gas and let the saw sit a little while. Wiped the plug off one more time and installed it. Tried the starting process all over again with no start. My dad told me that it looks like im not getting spark. No way its a brand new plug.engine  Pulled the plug again and it was wet. We dried it off again and cleared the engine and wiped it out. I put an opd plug in that he had and fired it up. It still took a few pulls though. Hit the throttle and it bogged out. After about 10you more pulls it fires up but ran a little rough. I let it run for a bit to try and let it burn up some gas. 

Back up to the woods and im cutting. Saw had major lag when i hit the throttle and would bog out at random. I got maybe 15 small logs cut and in the truck in about two hours of messing around. I called the dealer and said that it is still not running at 100%. He told me to bring it back and get my money back. 

I am not sure what i should do with buying a new saw. I know stihl makes a good saw but given the past month of rediculousness not sure i want to go with them again. I have seen a few suggestions for the ms250 and farmboss. What saw do you think would be best.i cant reall afford a pro saw right now. Should i turn my back on stihl and get a husky?

If i stick with stihl should i buy another saw off of this dealer? My gut tells me no but if i want to go with a different dealet id have to wait until next Saturday to get on and be back another week.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

Stihl is a good saw. Get money back and go to the other dealer.

I have had mine for 8 years only thing I have done is a fuel line. And tore the whole top end off,  because I was to lazy to replace a broken decomp valve that fell apart and wedges itselt on the piston an. Head. Got the piece out,  new plug and assembled and runs fine! 

You have a lemon. Bit honestly its a Carb adjustment thing. Told you they did not have it adjusted. Right.

I still would get my money and go to the other dealer. Ask what he thinks you need and go from there. The 260 or whatever they have now is a nice pro saw in your range but I could out cut it with my stock 390, although mine is heavier I am still cheaper.  Talk it through. I don't think you need a pro saw yet?


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

Take it back and go to the other. Dealer and buy one.

Told you they didn't have your. Carb adjusted right. Its moat likely a setting deal on it but just start over.

Stihl makes a decent saw. In 8 yrs only thing I done to my 390 that was not my fault is a fuel line.

You can talk to him on your needs and see what he says but I don't think you need a pro saw.  

The 260 or whatwr it is now is a nice saw but I got a 390 for similar money or less and I can out cut a 260 both stock,  but mine is way heavier!!   

I vote get money n go to new dealer.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

If it was a Husky, I wouldn't tell you to ditch it for a Stihl based on a bad experience with 1 saw.  

Honestly, something is wrong with how the carb was installed. Or so it seems to me.  I would have the other dealer take a look.  Anything that's wrong should be covered under warranty.  

The alternative plan would be to go buy a MS251 to replace your 230 from your preferred dealer.  Then take the 230 back.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 1, 2013)

So the farmboss is a no go?


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

No 290 is a good saw and I thing resells better due to being recognized.  My wood buddy has one,  but with the muff mod on my 390 and a sharp chain I cut 2 rounds for his one


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

How much did you have to spend? I have an MS 361 I'm gonna sell soon. I know that 250's go for $300. Price will be around that.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

U may want that pro saw from dex . That thing will blow your mind after running ur current saw. Don't be afraid of used they last forever with care. Sex is a stand up guy I guarantee he sells you a good saw.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> . Sex is a stand up guy I guarantee he sells you a good saw.



Clemson you got the hang of that phone yet?


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## Stihlmike (Sep 1, 2013)

I was hoping to buy new and have the warranty. I appreciate the offer and know your saw would out perform any stock saw I. But i am not that mechanically inclined at the current time. I am looking at the ms251. I like the easy to start function on my 230. I like the light weight and manuverability of my 230 and imagine the 251 would be similar . Would i lose that with saw like the farmboss or if i purchase a pro saw.


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

361 series is the best of every world. Can run a 16" bar and be light weight. Or run a 25" w/skip tooth with authority.  

The best of power and weight.. 

Figured I'd offer..


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

If you go pro, yes you will lose the EZ start but that's really not the end of the world.  The 290 farm boss will feel like an an anchor compared to your 230 but will handle bigger logs for sure.  I did a thread/review on the 251 when it came out.  Search MS251 first impressions and it should come up.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 1, 2013)

The easy to start is not the driving feature just something i liked about the 230. I was mainly worried about loosing the light weight and manuverability. I ll read your review as well.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> The easy to start is not the driving feature just something i liked about the 230. I was mainly worried about loosing the light weight and manuverability. I ll read your review as well.


Honestly if you like that then you're going to love the 251.  

The MS230 and the 250 were near identical with the only difference being the engine displacement.  As much as I like my own 230, there are saws with much better power to weight ratios.


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

The 290 isnt gonna be any lighter than a used 36 series saw.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

Stupid auto correct. I caught it once!!  I guess it re "fixed it"


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## mikefrommaine (Sep 1, 2013)

Ask the dealer if they have any used 026's or 260's.  Or check cl and ebay.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

Tough sell trying to sell a guy in the market for a new saw something used.  Even if it is higher performance machine.


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Tough sell trying to sell a guy in the market for a new saw something used.  Even if it is higher performance machine.



I used to be a "New" guy too. Bought a "New" 455 Rancher for just over $400.

Since I bought my 1st used saw, I haven't bought a "New" one.  All have been under $400 (my 395xp was over, way over that) and all have been Much bigger and Much faster than a 230/250 (even a 260) the 372's, 044, and 361's were all around the new price of a 250. The 044 and the last 372 were right about $300. The 044 is a spicey machine.

You have seen how big a run around warranty can be. I wont stand for it. Chainsaws are way to easy to work on. A couple questions here and you'll be breaking them down and rebuilding them. The difference between a 40-50cc homeowner saw and a 60-70cc Pro saw. Its not even apples to oranges, its just not fair. I wont even own a 50cc saw anymore. No point. 

Again, everyone's opinion is different. But a 60-70cc saw will speed production up and the weight difference is Nill. PLUS.. It will put a BIG Smile on your face  

Just sayin

There is another Forum that has a bunch of saws for sale from Site sponsors. They all stand behind there work. Some even a couple owners after the original sale. Good saws and good guys.


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## mikefrommaine (Sep 1, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Tough sell trying to sell a guy in the market for a new saw something used.  Even if it is higher performance machine.


Well new cheap s### aint exactly working out for him.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I wont even own a 50cc saw anymore. No point.


Betcha I wave a 261C-M at you and you'd bite.


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Well new cheap s### aint exactly working out for him.


Until he gets some experience working on his saws, used saws probably aren't gong to be a great experience for him either.  Too many rip-off artists out there.  Now if he wanted to take Dex up on that 361......


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## mikefrommaine (Sep 1, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> There is another Forum that has a bunch of saws for sale from Site sponsors. They all stand behind there work. Some even a couple owners after the original sale. Good saws and good guys.


Best advice yet. I'd be sure to take up the offer for a full refund. Used 26/260 are a hard value to beat...

http://www.arboristsite.com/tradin-post/243550.htm


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Betcha I wave a 261C-M at you and you'd bite.



With a Woods port from a builder? Maybe.....?

But, it would only be for limbing. Wouldn't waste my time running through real wood. 3"-4" limbs and under? Yeah... 

A real saw in need for Big wood. Something like these (372xp, 044, 460, 372xp). My 460 was the last "New" saw I bought. I have less in the 044, and the 2 372's than the MS 460 mag. Sometimes it pays to buy used. You get a lot more saw and a better product that will last Much longer than any homeowners saw.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

That's why I bought a new saw and got the biggest saw I thought I would ever want. Now I craved a bigger faster. Saw. I always wanted. A 372. Got it now. Bit not run it. Now I want a 80+ CC .  I rate. Have a saw that's 5 more pounds and cut 3-4 times faster!


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

Now those are nice dex do u use them??


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> but, it would only be for limbing



I still have to limb every damn tree I cut.   I guess I'd share your view if I was primarily cutting from a log pile.  

Lot's of satisfied 50cc Pro Saw owners on this forum.  And it's a 1 saw plan for many of them.  I guess some are immune to the sickness.


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Now those are nice dex do u use them??



Sometimes...  

My log guy was supposed to deliver my load last week. But he is normally about 2-3 weeks behind his promised date. 

For the most part, I just cut the 6-8 cord when it comes. I cut a lil here and there in between? But, I only burn 3 cord a year. So as long as I only sell about 3 cord, I only replace that much each year. With about a half dozen to a dozen saws, you run one for awhile, give it a break, run another and give it a break, run another, etc. The saws dont get abused, they dont get super hot, bars are not glazed from heat, and because I burn wood? It gives me an excuse to buy chainsaws. Lots of them. Another MS 361 is on its way this week  

Cheers ya'll...


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> But, I only burn 3 cord a year.



Time to sell the pellet roasters.


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

3,000 + sq ft = more needed BTU than 3 cord burned in the basement can account for. Still burn about 2 ton of pellets. But before wood, I burned 4-4.5 ton of pellets. Either way, it's cheaper than $3,600 a yr for "ProPain" (on avg).


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

Plus the pellet roasters provide constant and consistent heat. Shutting down and starting up when needed. You need to make sure you add wood in the a.m. and p.m.. If I feel lazy, then I dont do anything for about 3 days (pellet furnace in basement has a rather large hopper


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## mikefrommaine (Sep 1, 2013)

Sounds like you need to spend some time in the boiler room.
A gasser with 1000 gallons of water storage  -- instead of a bunch of stove -- is kind of like going from an 029 to a 372xp


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## MasterMech (Sep 1, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Sounds like you need to spend some time in the boiler room.


He'd have all three of the major food groups covered here then!


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## DexterDay (Sep 1, 2013)

mikefrommaine said:


> Sounds like you need to spend some time in the boiler room.
> A gasser with 1000 gallons of water storage  -- instead of a bunch of stove -- is kind of like going from an 029 to a 372xp



One day....


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 1, 2013)

My vote is to pick up the 361 for $300 if it's in good condition.  I don't have EZ start on my 441 and it does require a few pulls, but not the end of the world. 

The 361 is the pro equivalent of a 290.  I think the 362 has 1 more h.p. than a 290 with only 3cc more displacement. 

I don't want any more saws myself.  If I came across a super buy on a 660 someday, I'd be tempted, but not at the new price.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 1, 2013)

Here we go.  No need to mess around with the mid range saws when you could be running this..


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## clemsonfor (Sep 1, 2013)

Is that you, Fire?


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 1, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Is that you, Fire?


 
Heck no.  I'm 36 years old and I don't have the cahoneys to use something that big!


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## clemsonfor (Sep 2, 2013)

Haha!!  Yea forgot you said you were 36 somewhere else!!


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Just couldn't swing the pro series price. Went with the 290 farm boss. Going to go with the 18" bar on it.

I am getting the trade in cash value on my 230 but was told that the tax that I paid on it is non refundable. Wish that was not the case, but at this point it is what it is, and I just want to get cutting agin.

 If I wait to go to another dealership to get a new saw, I would have to wait until next Saturday, and just cant afford to wait that long. I believe I will go to the other dealer for all of my repair, wich is hopefully none. They gave me the opportunity to just take the value off of my card for the 230 but I need a saw. If this one ends up having issues, I will not be purchasing a STIHL again.
I had thought about the 251 but it has the easy tooless adjust on it and I do not like this option. I think this is the best saw that I can get withing my budget, and still have the warranty. Wish I knew more about saws to take advantage of the pro saw that was offered to me but just can't go that rout right now. Will be upgrading in time, and just hope that It was a fluke that the other saw had so many issues.

Do you guys run the STIHL moto mix, or purchase the non ethanol gas for your saws. I am worried about the effects of ethanol on chainsaws, and want to do everything in my power to avoid issues caused by gas with ethanol mixed in.


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## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Just couldn't swing the pro series price. Went with the 290 farm boss. Going to go with the 18" bar on it.
> 
> I am getting the trade in cash value on my 230 but was told that the tax that I paid on it is non refundable. Wish that was not the case, but at this point it is what it is, and I just want to get cutting agin.
> 
> ...


Most new OPE is designed to handle the ethanol fuel.  Most of us run it in our older equipment, too, and relatively few have had any problems.  My dealer recommends that you dump out the ethanol fuel and pour a little non-ethanol canned mix into the saw for storage, but otherwise save your money and just run standard pump fuel.

Me?  I'd return that POS, and send DexterDay a private message.  He'll sell you a good reworked pro saw at a fair price, and will stand behind it, if you have any trouble.  I know I'm putting words in his mouth here, but I think he's a good guy.  Your alternative is to find a Stihl dealer who is a real pro saw shop, not just a general OPE dealer.  They'll usually have reworked pro saws, with a short warranty, which you can pick up at half the cost of new.  You will know the mechanic who worked on your saw, and can go to him if/when you have trouble with it.


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## MasterMech (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Do you guys run the STIHL moto mix, or purchase the non ethanol gas for your saws. I am worried about the effects of ethanol on chainsaws, and want to do everything in my power to avoid issues caused by gas with ethanol mixed in.


I run out of the pump , 89, or 93 octane fuel that's up to 10% ethanol mixed with your synthetic two-cycle oil of choice.  No need to use a richer mix than 50:1 in that saw.  Do not over think the fuel issue.  You bought a good reliable saw that will run fresh fuel mixed with good oil.

You want to avoid issues with fuel?  Storage is key.  Store it in airtight containers out of the sun in a relatively cool location.  Your shed that reaches 100+ during the day and back down to 60 and humid at night is a poor choice. Out back under the pine tree is a poor choice.  The front porch is a poor choice (usually).  But your garage that stays between 70-80 degrees all summer long is probably a much better choice. . Run the saw dry if you will not be using it for more than a couple weeks.  Dump any mix that reaches 60 days old in the lawn mower or your pickups (full) tank.  I won't deter you from using stabilizer products in your mix fuel but its usually not necessary if you take care of the fuel to begin with.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

I run husqvarna semi syn  oil only because I don't have the warrenty offer stihl gives u to run theirs and because I do t have a close stihl and BC I can get husky oil at Lowes when there.

I run premium non e fuel but I can get it easy at my normal station.  The oil has a fuel stabilizer in it as well.  If I ha. To I would run E fuel but I don't so I don't!


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## MasterMech (Sep 3, 2013)

Joful said:


> Me?  I'd return that POS,



Easy now, .  I can think quite a few members that started with 290s or 455 Ranchers that remember them fondly.  And now run 60-70cc pro saws. 

The 290 is far from a POS.  So long as Mike isn't looking to cut hundreds of cords per year or trying to beat a stopwatch, the 290 is stone reliable, responds really well to a muffler mod for more power, and sells quite well due to the recognition of the Farm Boss title.  He should be able to get at least 60% of his money back once the warranty is up 2 years from now and he's ready for big boy toys.


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

I bet the 361 would have been less than the 290   Offer stands for any member  and yes, I would stand behind it  

Congrats on the 290. There a good saw.. Now let's see some pics.  You know the rules. No pics = Never happened


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

I was thinking the same thing MM.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

I know that 361 would be less!


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## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Easy now, .  I can think quite a few members that started with 290s or 455 Ranchers that remember them fondly.  And now run 60-70cc pro saws.


That came off wrong.  I meant that Mike's 230 is a POS... not that all farm saws are!

I'd still rather have a used pro saw than a new Farmboss, though.


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

Joful said:


> That came off wrong.  I meant that Mike's 230 is a POS... not that all farm saws are!
> 
> I'd still rather have a used pro saw than a NEW Farmboss, though.



There, I fixed it


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

Joful said:


> That came off wrong.  I meant that Mike's 230 is a POS... not that all farm saws are!
> 
> I'd still rather have a used pro saw than a used Farmboss, though.


 
I love my Farm Boss.  It is a good little saw.  My 441 has more power but also drinks fuel.   

To the O.P., I understand why you chose as you did.  You have a good saw as would have been the 361.  You got  a warranty and should have many years of trouble free service.  Congrats!!


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

Just to show you not all stihls are trouble,  and I know I have put this here before. My 390, which is a big brother to yours was like 7 years old before I had a bad fuel line.  A $8 part and it was back in service!


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

I am beginning to think that STIHL is POS. I went over on my lunch break to pick up a new farmboss. Paperwork was ready. Swiped my card. Salesman went back to put some gas in it and make sure it ran and such. Sat there......sat there some more...... sat some more.......

He came back with a totally different farm boss. I asked what was the matter, and he said "Im not going to lie, I can't get the other one started"

NOW YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!  Is this my luck? 2 new saws from Stihl and they are junk from the box? I am going to let him set up the other farm boss and pick it up today, but what are the odds of that. I am starting to lose faith in STIHL.

Dexter, Those pictures are awesome, and nothing personal. I appreciate you offering me that saw but I would not know how to work on it at the current time if something would happen, all be it my own error.

Can I just not win?


----------



## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I am beginning to think that STIHL is POS. I went over on my lunch break to pick up a new farmboss. Paperwork was ready. Swiped my card. Salesman went back to put some gas in it and make sure it ran and such. Sat there......sat there some more...... sat some more.......
> 
> He came back with a totally different farm boss. I asked what was the matter, and he said "Im not going to lie, I can't get the other one started"
> 
> ...


 
My farm boss is 11 months old now.  I have never had that issue.  Maybe there's something goofy with that dealer or the guy wasn't very good with saws.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

You have bad luck for sure. But honestly that's not the case with 99% of them. My uncle has an 026 that in like 15 years has had NOTHING done to it!!


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

My Craftsman 18cc is a P.O.S. compared to any Stihl


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

If u try to start one wrong you will flood it to where it won't start??


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I am beginning to think that STIHL is POS. I went over on my lunch break to pick up a new farmboss. Paperwork was ready. Swiped my card. Salesman went back to put some gas in it and make sure it ran and such. Sat there......sat there some more...... sat some more.......
> 
> He came back with a totally different farm boss. I asked what was the matter, and he said "Im not going to lie, I can't get the other one started"
> 
> ...



If my saw wont start or you have a problem,  send it back. 

I think the Jack just dont know how to start them? Full choke till it "pops", then flip up one to high idle, pull again until it fires, blip throttle to get saw to reg idle.. 

I'd personally either go to another dealer, if it has to be new. Or buy a better Pro saw (not even mine). Those 026's the Mike from maine posted are all good runners from a good member. Take that extra $175 and put it back in your pocket.  

Just an FYI -$350 Shipped. Guaranteed to start.


----------



## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

18 CC???  Didn't know saws were made that small??  Weedeatera are like 22-25 CC on small side!!  Typo maybe, 28 CC?


----------



## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

He sent me an email, and said he just pulled the newest one in stock and got it running fine. I know that Stihl is a good product, but cant believe the luck i have been having.

I guess I am just in that 1% that gets all the issues. I hope this new saw runs, and I do not know what I will do if this one dies like the other one. LOL


----------



## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> Easy now, .  I can think quite a few members that started with 290s or 455 Ranchers that remember them fondly.  And now run 60-70cc pro saws.
> 
> The 290 is far from a POS.  So long as Mike isn't looking to cut hundreds of cords per year or trying to beat a stopwatch, the 290 is stone reliable, responds really well to a muffler mod for more power, and sells quite well due to the recognition of the Farm Boss title.  He should be able to get at least 60% of his money back once the warranty is up 2 years from now and he's ready for big boy toys.


 
I'll never sell.  Good to have a backup, especially if you get your saw stuck and need to cut it out.  Of course you could buy felling wedges for a couple bucks, but any excuse to have more toys I'll buy.


----------



## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

This dealer needs to do something for you!!  If the case is not free he needs to give you a case,  or a free hat or free oil for a year or something!!  Honestly this is crazy!


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> 18 CC???  Didn't know saws were made that small??  Weedeatera are like 22-25 CC on small side!!  Typo maybe, 28 CC?


 
LOL  Duh!  I meant 35 cc 18"


----------



## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> This dealer needs to do something for you!!  If the case is not free he needs to give you a case,  or a free hat or free oil for a year or something!!  Honestly this is crazy!


 
Oh yeah....Freebies are in order.  Six pack of oil and a case.  They usually give you a hat anyway and the farm boss often comes with a free case.


----------



## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

My 064 is 20+ years old, all original hardware, as far as I can tell.  Runs like a champ, for me.  I did put a new bar on it, but that's just because the original was plain worn out.


----------



## Dairyman (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> I am getting the trade in cash value on my 230 but was told that the tax that I paid on it is non refundable.



BS!! I don't know the tax laws in your state but it sounds like your getting screwed.


----------



## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

Thinking same. I get tax refunds all the time when I return stuff. Even stuff that was junk or did not workout!


----------



## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

LOL i don't want freebies, I just want a saw that cuts and will not die before it even leaves the store. LOL

I know that stihl's are good products. All of the MS and 0## in the sig lines are enough for me to believe it. Just if I had never found this site, and would be just buying a stihl it would be hard to go back with them after these 2 freak accidents.

I did like how he sent me the email that fast though about the other farmboss running, I did make the remark, "I'm losing faith in you, bud" when he told me that.

 I did get a free hat with my first 230 purchase, and a jug of fuel enhancer and free sparkplug for my 015l before.


----------



## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Im over it at this point, I did get to cut about half a chord with the 230 and put some wear on it but still ticked I am getting ripped of 15 bucks in tax. Just want to get a saw and never go back.


----------



## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

But if this one dies after 4 cuts, i may just have to carve my initials in their showroom floor with a Husqvarna LOL


----------



## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

Dairyman said:


> BS!! I don't know the tax laws in your state but it sounds like your getting screwed.


 
I'm a CPA and have a tax practice.  This makes no sense.  A refund would be an adjustment on his monthly sales tax return.  I didn't catch that when I read this originally.  You report taxable sales and tax withheld.  A refund reduces taxable sales.  This dealer is jerky.


----------



## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> I'm a CPA and have a tax practice.  This makes no sense.  A refund would be an adjustment on his monthly sales tax return.  I didn't catch that when I read this originally.  You report taxable sales and tax withheld.  A refund reduces taxable sales.  This dealer is jerky.



I agree. A refund is a refund. Dude sounds like a Hack job. Can't even start his own equipment. 

I bet there was no fuel in that 290 he couldn't start  This ain't Rocket science


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Im over it at this point, I did get to cut about half a chord with the 230 and put some wear on it but still ticked I am getting ripped of 15 bucks in tax. Just want to get a saw and never go back.


 
Never give him any more business.  He's incompetent at best.  He'll learn if he loses enough business.


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## Prof (Sep 3, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> I'm a CPA and have a tax practice.  This makes no sense.  A refund would be an adjustment on his monthly sales tax return.  I didn't catch that when I read this originally.  You report taxable sales and tax withheld.  A refund reduces taxable sales.  This dealer is jerky.



Yeah, when I returned a saw to the dealer that was a bit of a lemon, I got full credit towards another saw--tax and all.  I was also offered a full cash refund. This makes me happy that I picked the dealer on the other side of the mountain.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I agree. A refund is a refund. Dude sounds like a Hack job. Can't even start his own equipment.
> 
> I bet there was no fuel in that 290 he couldn't start  This ain't Rocket science


 
My 290 is super EZ to start.  The 192 is easy.  The 441 is not when stone cold. 

He shouldn't have any problems starting a 290.  As some pointed out, switch all the way till partial fire, then middle position till started, and flick the throttle to idle.  They make this saw to be very accommodating to a non professional.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

Prof said:


> Yeah, when I returned a saw to the dealer that was a bit of a lemon, I got full credit towards another saw--tax and all. I was also offered a full cash refund. This makes me happy that I picked the dealer on the other side of the mountain.


 
I wanted to go with these guys but would have to wait until next Saturday because of my work hours and plans for this weekend. They will have my business for all other items and repairs, Just needed a saw to be able to cut for the next two weeks.


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## TreePointer (Sep 3, 2013)

Dairyman said:


> BS!! I don't know the tax laws in your state but it sounds like your getting screwed.


 
Yes, BS!  Get all of your money back and go to another dealer, post haste.  This guy is a clown.

PA sales tax is 6%, so that's about $21 on a $350 saw.  That's the price of a new chain and less than a saw case, which often is given FREE to a 290 buyer.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

its over, I had enough with the dealer and just wanted to get out of there with my saw. They did try and tell me that I ran the saw without oil for a long time and burnt my bar up. I always check oil and gas between resting times while I am loading. I never had that saw run out of oil and I know it. I was a bit offended at the accusation to be honest. I am done with them and will never shop with them again.

I will be taking all of my business to the dealer that Prof recommended. I would have bought my new saw through them, had I not had the implications of work, and plans for this Saturday. Lessoned learned I guess. I hope that this is the last time I have to post any negativity on this thread.

So in summary, I am back to where I first started the day I joined this site, 3 weeks ago. Lets hope this new saw is not a lemon, and I only have positive posts from now on. This one was the newest that had in stock and was in their possession for 20 days. Lets hope that is a good thing.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

Can't belwive they told you u burnt the bar up?


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Can't belwive they told you u burnt the bar up?



I would have been pis sed off too!! 

I always make sure I have oil. Fill it with EVERY tank of gas. Fill fuel, fuel oil, and touch up the chain if needed.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

It did have a mark on it where it did get hot, but I assure you there has always been oil in the saw. I had a friend tell me that not oiling the bar would not likely cause that issue, but having the chain on too tight may have been the culprit.

Oh well what is done is done. Just better to move on at this point. Still cant believe how crazy my luck has been. I won't be buying a lottery ticket any time soon...


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## Stihlmike (Sep 3, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I always make sure I have oil. Fill it with EVERY tank of gas. Fill fuel, fuel oil, and touch up the chain if needed.


 
mine is stop cutting, check oil, fill oil, then check/fill gas.I really did baby that 230 to be honest.

Glad they did have the tech come out and try to blame everything on me. Further gave me reason to not go back to them. I knew something was up when I had to tell him 4 times that my 230 had easy2start and he was only tiring himself out trying to start it by yanking on it. The flags went off then. I still don't feel right revealing the name of the dealership but think I should, to not have any other members go through this garbage, Maybe I am just in the 1% that have issues with them.


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## StihlHead (Sep 3, 2013)

Wow, I have bought over 100 new Stihl and Husky saws, and never had a problem with any of them. Never had to use a warranty for any of them either. Buying used is another matter.

The 230 does not have an adjustable oiler, so they are pretty much pointing the finger at the saw being defective if they are claiming that there is a problem there. The chain would rapidly overheat and stretch like mad if you ran several tanks of gas through it w/o bar oil in there. Sounds like morons at that shop though, so you will do well to go elsewhere.


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## Dairyman (Sep 3, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> mine is stop cutting, check oil, fill oil, then check/fill gas.I really did baby that 230 to be honest.
> 
> Glad they did have the tech come out and try to blame everything on me. Further gave me reason to not go back to them. I knew something was up when I had to tell him 4 times that my 230 had easy2start and he was only tiring himself out trying to start it by yanking on it. The flags went off then. I still don't feel right revealing the name of the dealership but think I should, to not have any other members go through this garbage, Maybe I am just in the 1% that have issues with them.



Wow....


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## TreePointer (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm not so sure that I'd blame bad luck.

He couldn't start a 290, one of the easiest starting saws ever made.  FAIL.
He couldn't diagnose/fix a 230.  FAIL.
He tried to blame you.  FAIL
He didn't give you a full refund.  FAIL

This doesn't happen to just one person.  He's probably heard from Stihl corporate that he needs to straighten out his act.  The lack of refund on tax is a sign of money issues, so there may be more dysfunction going on in his life than just his inept business practices.


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## DexterDay (Sep 3, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> I'm not so sure that I'd blame bad luck.
> 
> He couldn't start a 290, one of the easiest starting saws ever made.  FAIL.
> He couldn't diagnose/fix a 230.  FAIL.
> ...



Yep....  Sounds spot on to me.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

Having a dull chain will heat it too.


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## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> This doesn't happen to just one person.  He's probably heard from Stihl corporate that he needs to straighten out his act.  The lack of refund on tax is a sign of money issues, so there may be more dysfunction going on in his life than just his inept business practices.


I think you nailed it.  I'd write up a nice little note to your Stihl USA regional sales manager, and be sure include a link to this thread, so they can see what guys like this do to their business.  They may not like their name being associated with this clown, after reading this.


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## Ashful (Sep 3, 2013)

... and just in case you're wondering who that is:

Corporate Director of Sales:  Steve Meriam

Regional sales:
 Northeast STIHL
14 Forest Parkway
Shelton, CT 06484
Telephone: 203-929-8488
Fax: 203-944-5642


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## MasterMech (Sep 3, 2013)

If they think you burnt the bar because the paint had worn off revealing a "rainbow" along the rail, they should really check up on how those bars are made.  Says right in the marketing literature that they heat treat the rails to harden them.  You could strip the paint off a brand new bar and that rainbow would be there.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 3, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> If they think you burnt the bar because the paint had worn off revealing a "rainbow" along the rail, they should really check up on how those bars are made.  Says right in the marketing literature that they heat treat the rails to harden them.  You could strip the paint off a brand new bar and that rainbow would be there.


Haha


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 3, 2013)

Wow...this dealer is so typical of many small businessmen.  Act like jerks, don't try and save the relationship, blame the customer.

When there's a problem, be overly nice and save that relationship.  Bad news spreads much faster than good as they say.


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## HittinSteel (Sep 4, 2013)

I would have called the BBB and the State's Attorney General weeks ago.  Not sure about PA law, but you had a nice consumer sales practices act violation under ohio law.  Treble damages and reasonable attorneys fees.

You still may have a claim since they "stole" the sales tax.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

HittinSteel said:


> I would have called the BBB and the State's Attorney General weeks ago.  Not sure about PA law, but you had a nice consumer sales practices act violation under ohio law.  Treble damages and reasonable attorneys fees.
> 
> You still may have a claim since they "stole" the sales tax.


 
This is what I don't understand.  Normally in business, you don't play with small dollars and risk a reputation.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 4, 2013)

They just may be that ignorant??


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## Stihlmike (Sep 4, 2013)

Don't have the interest in messing with this anymore. Stihl stuck behind them before, and defended their actions, and their time waiting for the part. I doubt they would be on my side. Just want to move on. They can have my 15.69 in sales tax. Just don't feel like messing with them anymore. Call it frustration but I am just done with this. They will come back and look like Mr. Nice guy for giving me my money back with my "neglect" on the bar and such. I hate being ripped off but enough is enough. Maybe I can email them and have them sharpen my chains for a few times for free or something.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

Stihlmike said:


> Don't have the interest in messing with this anymore. Stihl stuck behind them before, and defended their actions, and their time waiting for the part. I doubt they would be on my side. Just want to move on. They can have my 15.69 in sales tax. Just don't feel like messing with them anymore. Call it frustration but I am just done with this. They will come back and look like Mr. Nice guy for giving me my money back with my "neglect" on the bar and such. I hate being ripped off but enough is enough. Maybe I can email them and have them sharpen my chains for a few times for free or something.


 
For $15, I'd let it go at this point.  Focus on enjoying your 290 and getting that wood cut.  You don't have much time for that wood to season.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 4, 2013)

firecracker_77 said:


> For $15, I'd let it go at this point. Focus on enjoying your 290 and getting that wood cut. You don't have much time for that wood to season.


 
Yeah the whole debacle really put me back on cutting standing dead to try and have ready for this season, all be it supplimental heating . Looks like I may get the stove installed this year, but just cut for next winter, unless I order some pre seasoned wood, no guarantee on that either, I am not that comfortable with burning wood cut now, even if it is standing dead.

Going to get the base I designed tweaked and ready for fab, then lay the cement board and tile on it. Get the wood burner in place with clearances and such, then layout the back wall section to have a hole cut in place for the flu.

I had a guy tell me that if the wood is standing dead, and I season it the rest of the summer, there is no way that creosote can build up in a brand new 3 wall stainless chimney, enough to cause a fire. He instructed me that buying treater logs or burning the stove hot for 25-30 mins can help turn any creosote build up to powder. Do you agree with this statement?


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## clemsonfor (Sep 4, 2013)

If u are not going to creosote ur chimney what are logs turning to powder?  U will have a mess burning wood cut now unless its like dead ash elm or pine.


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## Stihlmike (Sep 4, 2013)

He told me that if i do get creosote build up issues, that burning the stove hot will heat the creosote up and turn it to powder.
Just relaying what he had told me.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 4, 2013)

Running stove hot just keeps your Chaney hot and helps make some of it dry and disappear by turning powdery. But if ur burning g stuff that 30% mc your gonna get creosote unless you burn hot the majority of the time.


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

clemsonfor said:


> Running stove hot just keeps your Chaney hot and helps make some of it dry and disappear by turning powdery. But if ur burning g stuff that 30% mc your gonna get creosote unless you burn hot the majority of the time.


 
I agree 100%, but you also gotta' burn what you got sometimes.  Invest in a Sooteater chimney cleaning system.

BTW...how does that sooteater work for a 25 foot chimney?  I want to try it.  Do a mid season sweep in February perhaps.  I'm paying for a pro sweep here soon.


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## DexterDay (Sep 4, 2013)

I have 18' of class and its easy peasy. You may need an extra rod or 2 to do that much? But its a simple system that works.. 

I remove the top 3ft section and cap.


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## clemsonfor (Sep 4, 2013)

I hate to admit. I got a slammer.  Running what I got!   

Anyway I use it on my like 23ft flue tiles. It worked like a charm. My cats went out last season  I had creosote almost stopping me up. I have a cat stove so the low slow burn got me   But the 8 ft of so I could see easy was clean.!


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> I have 18' of class and its easy peasy. You may need an extra rod or 2 to do that much? But its a simple system that works..
> 
> I remove the top 3ft section and cap.
> View attachment 110448


 
Is your stove in the basement or on the main floor?


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## clemsonfor (Sep 4, 2013)

Looks like basement


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## Ashful (Sep 4, 2013)

He has TWO stoves in the basement, if I recall Dexter's setup.  One wood stove, one furnace.


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## DexterDay (Sep 4, 2013)

Pellet furnace- basement (main heating)
Wood stove (30-NC) - basement (also main)
Freestanding pellet stove upstairs (shoulder season to knock the chill off).


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Pellet furnace- basement (main heating)
> Wood stove (30-NC) - basement (also main)
> Freestanding pellet stove upstairs (shoulder season to knock the chill off).


 
How cold does the house get?  Wow!  An Englander 30 and a pellet stove???


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## DexterDay (Sep 4, 2013)

Dont get cold in this house . Only run one pellet stove or the othet. Never both. Always runnin the 30-NC. But its in the basement. The pellet furnace sucks all that hot air from the wood eater and distributes it upstairs via the floor registers  About 76° average in the winter


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## firecracker_77 (Sep 4, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> Dont get cold in this house . Only run one pellet stove or the othet. Never both. Always runnin the 30-NC. But its in the basement. The pellet furnace sucks all that hot air from the wood eater and distributes it upstairs via the floor registers  About 76° average in the winter


 
I was gonna' say.  That's a mighty fine wood stack you got going.  Would be a shame to rely on pellets only.


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