# Vertical vs Horizontal Wood Stacking



## leeave96 (Jun 3, 2011)

Any advantage to stacking fire wood vertical vs horizontal?

I cut-up some dead wood that was setting on the ground and it's full of water, though the sap has been gone for years.  I though that since the wood fiber (and sap path) runs end to end that it might be easier for wood to season/dry-out if you stack it vertically.  That way the moisture has a path to get out of the wood faster.  I might try a stack this way just for kicks.

Anyone have an opinion on this?  Anyone stack their wood vertically and if so, does it reduce drying/seasoning time?

Thanks!
Bill


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## Kenster (Jun 3, 2011)

You are talking about splitting the wood before stacking, right?  My first thought is that it's going to be really hard to stack splits end to end on top of each other.  I guess if you built a four sided cage you could stack the splits on end.  Once the bottom layer is completely full, you could start a second story of stacks but you'd need another level of walls to hold it all in.   I'm not sure it's worth all the trouble though because  I don't think gravity is much of an issue in drying wood.   And once the wood is split, I don't think the flow of sap/water is going to continue to flow end to end.


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## DexterDay (Jun 3, 2011)

Kenster said:
			
		

> You are talking about splitting the wood before stacking, right?  My first thought is that it's going to be really hard to stack splits end to end on top of each other.  I guess if you built a four sided cage you could stack the splits on end.  Once the bottom layer is completely full, you could start a second story of stacks but you'd need another level of walls to hold it all in.   I'm not sure it's worth all the trouble though because  I don't think gravity is much of an issue in drying wood.   And once the wood is split, I don't think the flow of sap/water is going to continue to flow end to end.



X2... Seems to hard. Just let it sit another year, Mush easier in my book. IMO


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## TreePointer (Jun 3, 2011)

Abort, Retry, Fail?


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## snowleopard (Jun 3, 2011)

I've wondered about the same thing.  What you'd be losing out on there would be the drying value of the wind, perhaps.  I think it would be especially effective with freshly cut wood.  It might be that stacking rounds vertically until you have a chance to split would start that process, and be easier to do than trying to stack splits vertically. 

I think, again, the devil's in the details, but until you run the experiment, it's all speculation.   Just remember the fundamentals:
1) lab coat
2) clipboard
3) pictures.


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## oldspark (Jun 3, 2011)

The main things are time, wind, sun, single rows, the rest is mostly conjecture.


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## DanCorcoran (Jun 3, 2011)

I usually stack vertically, end to end.  I take one column up 20-30 feet (using a ladder), then start the next column.  You have to make sure you cut the ends of the splits perfectly square and only stack on a day with no wind, but it seems to work okay.  Takes a long time, though, because the columns have a tendency to fall over.  

They sometimes let me out on weekends and holidays...


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## midwestcoast (Jun 3, 2011)

The best way I've seen to stack wood vertically is in the form of a tree.  Even long-dead standing trees can have a lot of moisture left in the trunk. They don't drain like a hollow pipe if you drill a hole in the bottom. My conclusion:  Gravity is not strong enough to overpower the capillary forces pulling the water along the grain of the wood so it has little to no effect on drying.  Don't see any advantage of orienting the splits or rounds vertically, diagonally...

I have stacked big rounds vertically on a concrete slab 2-3 high before. Water sat on the slab long after rains and when I split a couple weeks later I could see a line where the bottom rounds had soaked-up some water to maybe 3" up.  No impact to drying after split & stacked I doubt, but if I left them like that rot would surely have started.


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## wannabegreener (Jun 3, 2011)

If you stacked more than 1 high, wouldn't the sap from the top log drain into the log below it?  If so, the best that you would get would be that the top log dried faster.  Nothing below it would benefit until the top logs were done draining.


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## jimbom (Jun 3, 2011)

I have thought about this.  My thinking is the root mass feeds the leaf mass water via a bunch of small tubes.  There are no pumps.  Capillary action?  How does this work?  Would it work in reverse?  If it did work vertically, would it be much faster than horizontally?


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## Backwoods Savage (Jun 3, 2011)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> I usually stack vertically, end to end.  I take one column up 20-30 feet (using a ladder), then start the next column.  You have to make sure you cut the ends of the splits perfectly square and only stack on a day with no wind, but it seems to work okay.  Takes a long time, though, because the columns have a tendency to fall over.
> 
> They sometimes let me out on weekends and holidays...



That's bad Dan...


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## Backwoods Savage (Jun 3, 2011)

Every year we see a few who do stack vertically and it can look neat. However, there is a real big reason not many stack that way and that reason is that the wood dries faster if stacked horizontally so that wind will hit the end of the log. I've spoken to only one person that did try the vertical thing and they said it was an experiment for one year and that is the only time he stacked it that way.


Simply put:  *Split vertically and stack horizontally.*


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## lukem (Jun 3, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> I have thought about this.  My thinking is the root mass feeds the leaf mass water via a bunch of small tubes.  There are no pumps.  Capillary action?  How does this work?  Would it work in reverse?  If it did work vertically, would it be much faster than horizontally?



The trick is stacking the top of the tree facing down...make sure you label each split so you don't loose track.


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## oldspark (Jun 3, 2011)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> I usually stack vertically, end to end.  I take one column up 20-30 feet (using a ladder), then start the next column.  You have to make sure you cut the ends of the splits perfectly square and only stack on a day with no wind, but it seems to work okay.  Takes a long time, though, because the columns have a tendency to fall over.
> 
> They sometimes let me out on weekends and holidays...


 Thats silly, best thing to do is hang the wood on a clothes line.


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## Intheswamp (Jun 3, 2011)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> I usually stack vertically, end to end.  I take one column up 20-30 feet (using a ladder), then start the next column.  You have to make sure you cut the ends of the splits perfectly square and only stack on a day with no wind, but it seems to work okay.  Takes a long time, though, because the columns have a tendency to fall over.
> 
> *They sometimes let me out on weekends and holidays...*



Why?


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## Intheswamp (Jun 3, 2011)

oldspark said:
			
		

> DanCorcoran said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's why they call you *oldspark*.  Do it the modern way and put it in the clothes-dryer.


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## kettensÃ¤ge (Jun 3, 2011)

When I store rounds end grain against the dirt they are noticebly wetter at splitting time.


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## Stax (Jun 3, 2011)

I couldn't even imagine trying to stack that way.  Horizontally is laborious enough.


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## snowleopard (Jun 3, 2011)

So, Bill, once the `get a horse, Mister,' crowd is done getting their yucks, if you still have the heart to run an experiment, please let us know what you learn.   

The best painting hasn't been painted yet; the greatest symphony hasn't yet been composed, the greatest medical discovery has yet to be discovered.  We're always building on what has been learned before, so we're able to improve on what's gone before.   And then the innovations of yesterday become the orthodoxy of the next generation, and any deviation from that is heresy.  And so the cycle goes.   One thing you can be sure of--the first time someone split and stacked firewood, there were folks around to point fingers, laugh, and say that their grandpa never did it that way. 

We don't have all the answers to all the questions.  And if nobody every actually checks out their ideas, then any opinions about them are just conjuncture.   It may be that wood will dry faster in a vertical position, but the logistics will prove it impractical.  It may be that ten years from now, we will all be racking and stacking vertically because someone will have figured out a better way to do it. 

Don't be afraid of trying out your ideas.   And Dan is just Dan . . . he's family, and we love 'im, and that's why we sometimes let him out on the weekends--we just keep combustibles and sharp objects out of his reach.


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## snowleopard (Jun 3, 2011)

kettensÃ¤ge said:
			
		

> When I store rounds end grain against the dirt they are noticebly wetter at splitting time.



So here's data.  That's useful information.  It might be interesting to try  this with control groups--take some wood from the same tree, and stack some wood vertically as rounds and some horizontally and leave some in a stack, alll under the same conditions.   Then just check them out at splitting time and see which ones have dried the most.

Check out the Great Australian Holzhausen Experiment sometime.  One member ran a trial where he controlled the variables and determined that, at least under those conditions, an HH may look purty, but it wasn't drying the wood any faster, as was the conjecture up to that point.   Good on 'em.


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## leeave96 (Jun 3, 2011)

What I am thinking is that you have to keep the wood off the ground with a vertical stack just like you would with horizontal to prevent the wood from soaking-up moisture - that's a given.

I don't see any water draining down from the wood as some have suggested, but rather evaporating vertical out the up side end of the piece of wood - like an open container.  I would think that as the wood cracks during drying, it would be easier for the moisture to escape vs making it's way horizontally out of the piece of wood or vertical perpendicular to the grain.

I may try a side by side stack, one vertical and one horizontal with wood from the same tree for an experiment.

Bill


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## snowleopard (Jun 4, 2011)

Maybe throw in another batch slanted on an angle, propped up on one end.  I've thought that the ideal spot for doing speed seasoning would be on a dark metal roof, but the getting-it-up-and-down logistics have left me stumped.  So to speak.    And no harm done in thinking about it--some of my best ideas have been dumb ones, if you know what I mean.   Where would we be without the `I wonder what would happen if . . . ' people?


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## trailmaker (Jun 4, 2011)

I must have a couple chords stacked vertically inside my holz hausens.  It works well structurally but I don't know if it's drying faster.  Let us know if you do some type of experiment.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jun 4, 2011)

leeave96 said:
			
		

> What I am thinking is that you have to keep the wood off the ground with a vertical stack just like you would with horizontal to prevent the wood from soaking-up moisture - that's a given.
> 
> I don't see any water draining down from the wood as some have suggested, but rather evaporating vertical out the up side end of the piece of wood - like an open container.  I would think that as the wood cracks during drying, it would be easier for the moisture to escape vs making it's way horizontally out of the piece of wood or vertical perpendicular to the grain.
> 
> ...



The problem Bill is that flowing air will rid the moisture faster than evaporation. That is why we say to stack the wood in the wind because wind is more important than sun. In addition to that, if the outside pieces would get the evaporation, what about the interior pieces that do not get the benefit of sun or wind? But do experiment.


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## cygnus (Jun 4, 2011)

Some university papers and experimental analysis discussed on this site suggest that ~40% more moisture is lost from the end grain compared to the sides of a split during seasoning.  We also know that wind (not gravity) is the primary seasoning force.  Stack vertically and I can't see how the wind will get to the end grain.  Then again, I really don't get this whole premise.  Other than about the first day after its cut, it's not as if water drips out of a round or split.


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## jimosufan (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm sure somebody from the Government has already done this experiment.  Or gave a 2.5 mill grant to some University.


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## RNLA (Jun 4, 2011)

Google the experiment on building a solar kiln.... I guess there is a reason I prefer to let the wind and sun do their jobs... Nothing fancy, just a wood pile.


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## dougstove (Jun 4, 2011)

"My thinking is the root mass feeds the leaf mass water via a bunch of small tubes.  There are no pumps.  Capillary action?  How does this work?  Would it work in reverse?  If it did work vertically, would it be much faster than horizontally?"

In the intact tree the small tubes (xylem) connect the roots to the leaves.
Water evaporates from the leaves, creating tension (negative pressure) on the column of water in the xylem.
This pulls the water up the xylem.
If the soil is wet there is also a certain degree of root pressure pushing the water up;  that causes the little drops at the end of leaves on wet mornings (mainly in small soft plants).

The limit on the height of the tree is cavitation of the water - if the tension on the water column gets too high, bubbles come out of solution.
There are instruments to listen to this popping sound, to help track water flow through trees.
Redwood and Australian BlueGum trees are right around the physical limit for tree height to get water delivery up to the leaves.

Gravity would be a negligible influence on drying cut wood, unless it was still dripping wet.  The interactions between the water and wood fibres are much stronger than the gravity pull on the water.


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## Dune (Jun 5, 2011)

I have done this experiment many times with pine, since I store it in piles cut to stove length for a year before I split it. The rounds which are horizontal are always drier than the vertical ones.


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## cptoneleg (Jun 5, 2011)

wannabegreener said:
			
		

> If you stacked more than 1 high, wouldn't the sap from the top log drain into the log below it?  If so, the best that you would get would be that the top log dried faster.  Nothing below it would benefit until the top logs were done draining.




Then the bottom log would be seasoned in 30yrs good plan.


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