# ECO Smart ECO-18 Instant & Efficient Electric Hot Water System Installation pics-Good & Efficient???



## Don2222 (May 2, 2015)

Hello

My Neighbor installed a 25-PDV in the basement and saved alot of oil. To eliminate the oil completely, an ECO Smart ECO-18 Hot Water heating system was just installed!

The 40 gallon holding tank takes the 50-60 Deg F town water from the street and warms it to about 70-80 Degrees F, Then using 2 - 40 Amp 220 volt breakers for a maximum of 75 amp draw, instantly heats the water on demand only from the warmer water in the storage tank to the set temp, in their case 120 Degrees for the hot water in the home! I saw the system in action and it seems very efficient. The hot water from the FHW Boiler tankless coil goes right into the ECO tank so the boiler can be used as backup. If the boiler is turned off, the the ECO Smart system will do all the heating.

*Does anyone have experience with this system? If  a tank of oil or say 250 gallons per year is used to heat hot water for 3.50 per gallon or $875.00 dollars per year then how much would the electricity cost and does it really save money?*

The cost of this system is less than $1,000.00 

Home Depot price for basic unit
http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart...ectric-Tankless-Water-Heater-ECO-18/203316216


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## maple1 (May 3, 2015)

My ordinary 80 gallon electric hot water heater cost less than $400 and uses $25/mo of electricity.


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## BrotherBart (May 3, 2015)

maple1 said:


> My ordinary 80 gallon electric hot water heater cost less than $400 and uses $25/mo of electricity.



The same here. And the well water pumped into mine is ice cold. For the life of me I cannot figure out all of the hoops jumped through to heat water.


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## moey (May 3, 2015)

Not much more efficient then a stand alone old school hot water tank. Electric tank less water heaters can be good if you have limited space but comparing them to an electric tank your not gaining much if anything. Gas tank less heaters are more efficient then a tank because you do not have a stack to lose heat up. If you look up the efficiency of a gas hot water tank they have a EF of about .60 a electric tank can get up to .95. 

Hope it works well for them. 

Might be cheaper to burn oil right now depending on their system.


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## Don2222 (May 3, 2015)

moey said:


> Hope it works well for them.
> 
> Might be cheaper to burn oil right now depending on their system.


Thanks

They have an older tankless coil in their oil boiler so this should be a lot cheaper.


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## maple1 (May 4, 2015)

I also used to have an oil boiler (wood/oil combo actually) with a tankless coil in it. There isn't a much less efficient way to heat DHW with I don't think, in the non-heating months - so kudos to them for getting off that. Best thing I ever did was send the oil man packing after 17 years.

This setup wouldn't have been my choice though, too complicated & expensive up front for what I suspect will be negligible (if any) efficiency gains over an ordinary hot water heater - but good luck to them. Curious on how it turns out after a few months.


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## Don2222 (May 4, 2015)

maple1 said:


> I also used to have an oil boiler (wood/oil combo actually) with a tankless coil in it. There isn't a much less efficient way to heat DHW with I don't think, in the non-heating months - so kudos to them for getting off that. Best thing I ever did was send the oil man packing after 17 years.
> 
> This setup wouldn't have been my choice though, too complicated & expensive up front for what I suspect will be negligible (if any) efficiency gains over an ordinary hot water heater - but good luck to them. Curious on how it turns out after a few months.



The difference between this system and a regular electric hot water tank is:
1. The 53 deg f water from the street is warmed to about 70 degs F just by sitting in the storage tank in a warm basement with no energy and cost.
2. The amount of water heated is by demand. This heater only comes on when a faucet is turned on.
3. The water is only heated from 70 Degs F to 120 Degs F

Therefore the amount of energy used is the bear min so the cost is the cheapest.

It will be interesting how it works.


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## Highbeam (May 4, 2015)

Don2222 said:


> The difference between this system and a regular electric hot water tank is:
> 1. The 53 deg f water from the street is warmed to about 70 degs F just by sitting in the storage tank in a warm basement with no energy and cost.
> 2. The amount of water heated is by demand. This heater only comes on when a faucet is turned on.
> 3. The water is only heated from 70 Degs F to 120 Degs F
> ...



Too funny, they hope to preheat ice water to room temp by putting a 40 gallon tank in the basement? Even if possible then it would do it by stealing heat from the room which means pellet heat, not "no energy and cost" as you state.

What we have here is a terrible idea. They should have paid 150-200$ for an electric resistance heater wired with a single 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire. No fancy circuit boards, no sharkbite fittings, etc.

The savings of heating water on demand vs. storing it hot is almost zero. They use better insulation these days and really, any heat lost from the tank is a savings in pellets to heat the basement.


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## maple1 (May 4, 2015)

I would actually be surprised if these systems use less than an ordinary hot water heater.

This 18kw on-demand heater is the same size as the electric boiler I have for backup heating in our house. It rarely gets used but I have seen it overshoot temps if all the demand stops while it is heating. So in this case, when the flow stops there is going to be residual heat left in the system that will dissipate.

BTW you could also use the 40 gallon 'free heat' preheater in any kind of DHW heating scenario - if you wanted. No magic there I don't think.

(And from my hooking up of the elctric boiler - 80 & 100a breakers & 6 guage wire [or was it 4?] is a LOT more expensive than 20a & 10 guage stuff. I think I was close to half the cost of my 80 gallon electric hot water heater - and that's with the boiler being really close to the panel).

Still would be very curious on monthly electricity consumption.


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## moey (May 4, 2015)

Maybe the 25-pdv can be setup to blow hot air on the tank. That would help a little.

There will be little passive gain on the tank 70F water will not be seen you would be lucky to get a couple degrees gain.

You dont get 70F water when you go out for the day come home and turn the faucet on. The well tank gains little in temp.


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## Highbeam (May 4, 2015)

moey said:


> Maybe the 25-pdv can be setup to blow hot air on the tank. That would help a little.
> 
> There will be little passive gain on the tank 70F water will not be seen you would be lucky to get a couple degrees gain.
> 
> You dont get 70F water when you go out for the day come home and turn the faucet on. The well tank gains little in temp.



And that preheat tank will sweat and make a mess on the floor.


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## WES999 (May 4, 2015)

For the same money you could buy a HP water heater, much better choice IMO.


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## sportbikerider78 (May 6, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> Too funny, they hope to preheat ice water to room temp by putting a 40 gallon tank in the basement? Even if possible then it would do it by stealing heat from the room which means pellet heat, not "no energy and cost" as you state.
> 
> What we have here is a terrible idea. They should have paid 150-200$ for an electric resistance heater wired with a single 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire. No fancy circuit boards, no sharkbite fittings, etc.
> 
> The savings of heating water on demand vs. storing it hot is almost zero. They use better insulation these days and really, any heat lost from the tank is a savings in pellets to heat the basement.



That is what I was going to say.  Energy is energy and it all goes somewhere.  If you're raising the temp of the water from the line at all, it is the air getting colder in the basement...which usually causes condensation and will certainly cool the floor above.

Normal, electric water heaters are a great buy.  The only heat lost is the energy that escapes from the tank...and that is pretty minimal.  For me, I don't really care...that is all heat that goes into my basement and helps heat it.


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## semipro (May 7, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> For the life of me I cannot figure out all of the hoops jumped through to heat water.


For many of us its our single biggest energy suck and there are many alternative ways to heat water other than electric resistance or fossil fuels (e.g., solar, HPWH).


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## semipro (May 7, 2015)

Highbeam said:


> And that preheat tank will sweat and make a mess on the floor.


At least if they capture this in a drain they'll get some dehumidification out of that expensive system. 

I hope this guy has soft water.  Otherwise the heater will require regular scale removal.

Also, a system like this can't take advantage of lower off-peak rates like a tank heater could.


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## maple1 (May 7, 2015)

semipro said:


> For many of us its our single biggest energy suck and there are many alternative ways to heat water other than electric resistance or fossil fuels (e.g., solar, HPWH).


 
Not quite sure about that (single biggest energy suck) - ours is only $25/mo when doing it all electric, or about 20% of the electric bill. Which pales in comparison to the wood needed to heat the house or the oil or electric we would have to buy if we didn't burn wood - we never have heated without wood but I was estimating/guessing back in our oil backup days that if we had to do oil-only it would be in the area of 1000 gallons/year. Don't have a/c or have to dehumidify but if we did those would likely be more than DHW heating also.


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## Highbeam (May 7, 2015)

semipro said:


> For many of us its our single biggest energy suck and there are many alternative ways to heat water other than electric resistance or fossil fuels (e.g., solar, HPWH).



Water heating is certainly my biggest energy suck too. At least with regards to electrical needs. But it's half of a very small number so it's not worth the effort or risk of an alternative system.


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## woodgeek (May 16, 2015)

Just get a geospring, you'll save more energy and get a rebate check.  If you are running a boiler all summer, switching to the HPWH is like printing money.


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## billb3 (May 17, 2015)

I'd be  a little worried about  Legionella pneumophila or anaerobic bacteria growing in a tank under 130ºF
70ºF may be too cold for Legionella but not for anaerobic. Anaerobic supposedly won't harm you it just stinks.

18,000 watts. Wow.
I'll stick to my oil burner and super insulated 30 year zoned water tank. Especially at 27.5¢ kWh.


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## moey (May 18, 2015)

billb3 said:


> I'd be  a little worried about  Legionella pneumophila or anaerobic bacteria growing in a tank under 130ºF
> 70ºF may be too cold for Legionella but not for anaerobic. Anaerobic supposedly won't harm you it just stinks.
> 
> 18,000 watts. Wow.
> I'll stick to my oil burner and super insulated 30 year zoned water tank. Especially at 27.5¢ kWh.



I dont think they have anything to worry about its not much different then a regular well tank.


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