# Install myself, or pay the pros?



## Rangerbait (Apr 28, 2017)

Gents,

I have been going back and forth with a couple of chimney/stove shops in the area, and I still feel like I'm getting jobbed on the parts and labor.  Can anyone recommend a good source of supply for top-end class A stainless pipe and fittings so I can tell how much mark up is being added into the bids compared to what Joe Consumer can buy from a reputable retailer?  

Also, I am doing all of the framing/sheathing/siding/roofing/stone work myself, but have been reluctant to tackle the actual chimney installation as I've mentioned in other threads just due to the peace of mind factor...however, after talking to numerous friends and co-workers, it sounds like a lot of the jobs that the installers in the area perform are not done with near the level of care and detail as I would expend.  My chimney and sheet metal experience is very limited, although I can do pretty much anything else construction-related...if I am pulling a permit for the chimney installation, and it will be subject to inspection, is there a compelling reason to not tackle this myself?  

Thanks in advance for the feedback...I'm not trying to be cheap here, I just don't want to pay top dollar for sub-standard workmanship.


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## Simonkenton (Apr 28, 2017)

You can do it, not that hard.


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## Lcback (Apr 28, 2017)

If your doing a stainless chimney, it's the easiest part of the whole process. They click together and twist. 3ft at a time.  Keep your clearances and your all set.

I used Duravent triple wall, insulated, class a. I got it at home Depot for $89 per 3 foot section. It's not what the pros use, but I don't see what's wrong with it.


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## double-d (Apr 28, 2017)

Not sure if you are also building a Chase or just installing the Chimney pipe. There is lots of information on the internet, including here. Make sure you are aware of the different components and usages if needed, Thru the wall thimbles, Wall Bands, Fire Shields, Attic Insulation Shields and Stainless Chase Cover.
If building a Chase also, the chimney chase support  must be able to accommodate the weight of not only the structure and the chimney but also the exterior siding (or stone) that may be applied.
I prefer the Double-wall Insulated Class A pipe, and there are many MFG's to choose from.
http://inspectapedia.com/chimneys/Wood_Chimney_Chase.php


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2017)

If you're meticulous, can measure properly and have the time then you should be able to do this. The most important part is in the planning. Pay close attention to clearances and if at all possible locate the stove and chimney centrally in the floorplan with the chimney going straight up and thru the roof.  There are pretty good instructions published by DuraVent on the process. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. Look here under the literature tab for the chimney instructions:
http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=1

A good quality pipe is DuraTech, double-wall chimney. This is also known as class A chimney pipe.
A good source with helpful service is here:
http://www.woodstovepro.com/store/C...pe/Wood-All-Fuel-Piping/6-inch/DuraTech-c155/
Top of the line chimney is made by Excel and Ventis, the latter is sold retail under the Champion brand name:
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Class-A-Double-Wall/?state=13748|13598


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## Rangerbait (Apr 28, 2017)

Very good resources...thanks!  This is going to be a newly framed chase (which I am building) that is replacing the existing bump out where the useless propane insert currently resides.  I have attached the sketch of the chase and the alcove clearances so y'all can tell what I am planning.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2017)

Good start in planning. You can use a regular ceiling support box instead of a cathedral ceiling support at the bottom of the chimney pipe. Then use double-wall stove pipe to connect the stove. Which Blaze King stove are the clearances in the diagram for?


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## Rangerbait (Apr 28, 2017)

begreen said:


> Good start in planning. You can use a regular ceiling support box instead of a cathedral ceiling support at the bottom of the chimney pipe. Then use double-wall stove pipe to connect the stove. Which Blaze King stove are the clearances in the diagram for?



The King Parlor.


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2017)

So far looking good. The alcove ceiling will need to be at least 49" above the stove top. Will the stove have the fan kit?


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## bholler (Apr 28, 2017)

Lcback said:


> If your doing a stainless chimney, it's the easiest part of the whole process. They click together and twist. 3ft at a time.  Keep your clearances and your all set.
> 
> I used Duravent triple wall, insulated, class a. I got it at home Depot for $89 per 3 foot section. It's not what the pros use, but I don't see what's wrong with it.


It has half the insulation of the double wall stuff for starters.  So it does not maintain internal temps as well.


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## bholler (Apr 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Gents,
> 
> I have been going back and forth with a couple of chimney/stove shops in the area, and I still feel like I'm getting jobbed on the parts and labor.  Can anyone recommend a good source of supply for top-end class A stainless pipe and fittings so I can tell how much mark up is being added into the bids compared to what Joe Consumer can buy from a reputable retailer?
> 
> ...


Class a chimneys ate pretty easy to install if you can do the rest of that you can do the chimney.  Just follow the instructions carefully.  And dont rely on the inspector many of them know very little about chimneys.


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## Lcback (Apr 28, 2017)

bholler said:


> It has half the insulation of the double wall stuff for starters.  So it does not maintain internal temps as well.


Okay, I didn't tell him what to get. I told him how it's easy, and where you can get a regular brand. Our situations aren't the same. I had to run mine out the basement and up the outside of the house. Code called for triple wall with a 2" clearance. This Duravent has that, the first two walls have solid pack insulation between them.  I'm no expert but I'm not sure how double wall can have any more insulation shoved between the only two walls. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## bholler (Apr 28, 2017)

Lcback said:


> Okay, I didn't tell him what to get. I told him how it's easy, and where you can get a regular brand. Our situations aren't the same. I had to run mine out the basement and up the outside of the house. Code called for triple wall with a 2" clearance. This Duravent has that, the first two walls have solid pack insulation between them.  I'm no expert but I'm not sure how double wall can have any more insulation shoved between the only two walls.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Well i was responding to your comment about not knowing what was wrong.  And yes the triple wall is safe but it does not perform as well. 

Next code does not call for triple wall with 2 inches of clearace it calls for a class a chimney that can be a masonry chimney installed to code or a prefab chimney installed per manufacturers instructions.  Most require 2 inches but not all.

And the duravent triplewall has 1/2" of insulation double wall has 1".  Which is why i said triple wall has half the insulation.


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## Lcback (Apr 28, 2017)

bholler said:


> Well i was responding to your comment about not knowing what was wrong.  And yes the triple wall is safe but it does not perform as well.
> 
> Next code does not call for triple wall with 2 inches of clearace it calls for a class a chimney that can be a masonry chimney installed to code or a prefab chimney installed per manufacturers instructions.  Most require 2 inches but not all.
> 
> And the duravent triplewall has 1/2" of insulation double wall has 1".  Which is why i said triple wall has half the insulation.


Your right, I'm wrong. I put my chimney in and clearly didn't know much. So I say this guy should go for it!


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## bholler (Apr 28, 2017)

Lcback said:


> Your right, I'm wrong. I put my chimney in and clearly didn't know much. So I say this guy should go for it!


The chimney you put in is perfectly safe and will work ok.  I was just pointing out the reason that the double wall is more expensive and performs better.  Also in case you missed it I also said he could probably do it himself.  But he was asking about top of the line chimney systems and the triple wall is not top of the line at all.


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## bholler (Apr 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I have attached the sketch of the chase and the alcove clearances so y'all can tell what I am planning.


When building your alcove and heath I would recommend going at least a couple inches past minimum required.  Especially on the hearth it is nice to have a littl extra space there.  And you dont wat you stove to tight in the opening either it just makes it hard to work on.


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## Rangerbait (Apr 28, 2017)

begreen said:


> So far looking good. The alcove ceiling will need to be at least 49" above the stove top. Will the stove have the fan kit?



Yes on the fan kit and side shields (required for alcove application), and the ceiling of the alcove will be 8.5' above the hearth; the ceiling in that room is 9.5'


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## begreen (Apr 28, 2017)

Sounds like you're doing your homework. Take pics so we can see your progress.


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## defiant3 (Apr 29, 2017)

If this is to be inspected by a code officer or building inspector, might be worth running it by him/her BEFORE getting started. Unless there's some kind of appeals process the inspector IS the law whether they are right or wrong . Don't ask how I know this...


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## xman23 (Apr 30, 2017)

Sounds like your doing most of the work, the proper chimney chase.  Hearth and stove surround, next. And the easy part positioning the stove and stacking the chimney.


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## Rangerbait (Apr 30, 2017)

xman23 said:


> Sounds like your doing most of the work, the proper chimney chase.  Hearth and stove surround, next. And the easy part positioning the stove and stacking the chimney.



That's what I'm thinking...after looking into the process of chimney installation more, I'm no longer apprehensive at all about doing it myself. I've never seen it done before, and the shady salesbro made it sound like they'd be doing some serious engineering work.  It looks pretty straight forward as long as I get all of the parts I need...going with Champion for the parts.


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## leisuretech (May 3, 2017)

I would suggest doing it yourself if you have the knowledge and skills to complete the job, the one thing I will state is that if any issues arise (if installation is done improperly) it could cause further issues and injury. For this reason I would always suggest a home owner contact an insured and licensed heating installation company to get the job done correctly. In theory saving money always sounds great but could always have the potential to go wrong... 

-Best of Luck


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## begreen (May 3, 2017)

It's a two way street. Some stove shops don't have their own crews and sub-contract. That sometimes can remove responsibility and care about workmanship. Unfortunately just because someone has a licensed operation it doesn't always mean one will get professional work. Get references and check them out. As in any business, there are some really good shops out there and there are some not so good ones. A really good shop may be the higher bidder but they often use a higher class material and have trained crews that are well paid and have been with the company a long time. This adds years of experience to your installation. 

One benefit of doing it oneself if one has the skills and patience, is that when a question, missing part or problem arises, you are not on the clock and can pause to get it figured out and see that the job is done properly. Just be thorough and meticulous with your work and clean up well afterward. Wood shavings left in a ceiling support can be an ignitable source of fuel.


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## xman23 (May 3, 2017)

You tell me if I was being picky about my pro store installation. See my avatar to see how it came out. This is was a new hose. They, the stove store had a sub they use all the time,  do the hearth and stone wall surround. I don't have pictures, but it was extremely horrible quality. Wrong size random cut stones in the hearth.  He said forgot his glasses that day. I ripped it all out, and went and found a guy that did the nice looking job you see.

So they came to install the stove. Where the stove needed to be located on the hearth, where it is now.  The straight shot up with the chimney hit a ceiling rafter. They said all they would do was snake the chimney with a 6 inch offset about halfway up.  I had to have the guy leave and I framed out the chase. They wouldn't do it. They came back and stacked the chimney in the chase I made. If I knew all this I would have done it my self. And this was a major stove store in NEPA. They know the issues that will happen and what the customer may be overlooking. At the end they wanted to charge for the visit that they didn't do the install. I gave the installer a check minus the stone work and the extra visit. The owner never called.


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## bholler (May 3, 2017)

xman23 said:


> You tell me if I was being picky about my pro store installation. See my avatar to see how it came out. This is was a new hose. They, the stove store had a sub they use all the time,  do the hearth and stone wall surround. I don't have pictures, but it was extremely horrible quality. Wrong size random cut stones in the hearth.  He said forgot his glasses that day. I ripped it all out, and went and found a guy that did the nice looking job you see.
> 
> So they came to install the stove. Where the stove needed to be located on the hearth, where it is now.  The straight shot up with the chimney hit a ceiling rafter. They said all they would do was snake the chimney with a 6 inch offset about halfway up.  I had to have the guy leave and I framed out the chase. They wouldn't do it. They came back and stacked the chimney in the chase I made. If I knew all this I would have done it my self. And this was a major stove store in NEPA. They know the issues that will happen and what the customer may be overlooking. At the end they wanted to charge for the visit that they didn't do the install. I gave the installer a check minus the stone work and the extra visit. The owner never called.


Many chimney guys wont change structural changes and in some areas really cant without getting different permits.  We do but i was a carpenter for years and the regulations and permitting in our area are not to stringent.  So that part i dont see is their fault.  The crappy stone work obviously is.


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## Rangerbait (May 3, 2017)

leisuretech said:


> I would suggest doing it yourself if you have the knowledge and skills to complete the job, the one thing I will state is that if any issues arise (if installation is done improperly) it could cause further issues and injury. For this reason I would always suggest a home owner contact an insured and licensed heating installation company to get the job done correctly. In theory saving money always sounds great but could always have the potential to go wrong...
> 
> -Best of Luck



Believe me, I get that...and that was exactly what I had planned on from the get-go. There are so many horror stories out there about shoddy installations out there, and the fact that mine is going to be pretty straight forward led me toward considering doing the work myself. 

Asking honestly here: these high-end class A systems have very good locking together mechanisms, and if I maintain and exceed all required clearances, adhere to code for radiation shielding, supports, etc, what should make me shy away from doing the work myself?


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## bholler (May 3, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Believe me, I get that...and that was exactly what I had planned on from the get-go. There are so many horror stories out there about shoddy installations out there, and the fact that mine is going to be pretty straight forward led me toward considering doing the work myself.
> 
> Asking honestly here: these high-end class A systems have very good locking together mechanisms, and if I maintain and exceed all required clearances, adhere to code for radiation shielding, supports, etc, what should make me shy away from doing the work myself?


Nothing as long as your insurance is ok with a self install.  Many are but you should check


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## xman23 (May 3, 2017)

bholler said:


> Many chimney guys wont change structural changes and in some areas really cant without getting different permits.  We do but i was a carpenter for years and the regulations and permitting in our area are not to stringent.  So that part i dont see is their fault.  The crappy stone work obviously is.




Yea that maybe what they say about doing something structural. It was years ago, and all I remember was them explaining how the were going to do this hideous looking chimney in my timber frame cabin. I went over my building plans with them, to dimension the clearances. At no time did they mention the chase. Now thinking about it maybe it was a sales guy. Actually it was the only issue building the whole house.


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## bholler (May 3, 2017)

xman23 said:


> Actually it was the only issue building the whole house.


you did pretty good if that was all


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## Rangerbait (Jun 23, 2017)

Alright folks, just submitted my building permit application for the chimney and chase construction...starting to get excited about breaking ground on this project!!


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## xman23 (Jun 24, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Alright folks, just submitted my building permit application for the chimney and chase construction...starting to get excited about breaking ground on this project!!




So did you decide to do it yourself? Between the stoves manual and the chimney manual there are enough instructions for people with carpentry skills to do it. Take some progress pictures.


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## Rangerbait (Jun 24, 2017)

xman23 said:


> So did you decide to do it yourself? Between the stoves manual and the chimney manual there are enough instructions for people with carpentry skills to do it. Take some progress pictures.



I did...the process of drawing up the plans really solidified my decision. I'll be sure to take plenty of shots, don't worry!

First shot: the "before" with the useless gas fireplace and ugly arse wood/granite combo


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## Rangerbait (Jul 15, 2017)

Welp, got the call on Thursday that my permit was approved, so it's off to the races...first step was to get rid of the unruly lilac that was clogging up the job site




Woke up at dawn this morning to start the demo work 




Making a little progress while trying to not wake up the neighborhood on a Saturday morning




Finally, my laborer shows up for work





Good riddance!




Lunch break for the crew




First round of inspections




I'm pretty pleased with the progress for day 1




Also, I got the quote back from the Mason who's going to be doing the limestone-ish dry stack ledgestone work, and it's about what I was anticipating. For the hearth pad, I'm going to be doing a poured concrete, like what they're doing for kitchen counter tops these days. My dad did one in his house, then a another one in a house he flipped, and they both came out awesome!  I figure I'll have him advise when I do the pad...thinking about something like this look, except on the floor of course


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## Rangerbait (Jul 18, 2017)

Update: just passed the footing inspection today, so I'm cleared to pour!  Then, it's on to start the framing work 




Also, stopped by the hearth store and they have the exact model I ordered from them on their floor now. Although it was in the 90s today and muggy af, I'm getting stoked on the wood burning season!


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## Dobish (Jul 19, 2017)

i love the crew


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## Michael Sean (Jul 19, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Also, stopped by the hearth store and they have the exact model I ordered from them on their floor now. Although it was in the 90s today and muggy af, I'm getting stoked on the wood burning season!



That's the worst part about getting a new stove during the summer. I installed mine a couple of weeks ago and now all I can do is look at it and wait.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Jul 22, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Update: just passed the footing inspection today, so I'm cleared to pour!  Then, it's on to start the framing work
> 
> View attachment 198639
> 
> ...


Awesome thread, Rangerbait. Please keep the posts coming.  Trust me when I tell you how much better it is to do this during the summer, than in early December. The extra months of anticipation is a bonus!


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## Rangerbait (Jul 23, 2017)

Quick question...I'm planning to go with Champion brand stainless chimney; is there another brand that's comparable?  Probably about $2,700 without the chase top.


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## double-d (Jul 24, 2017)

Champion brand pipe I believe is the Ventis Class A double wall Insulated pipe. It's a good pipe, as are several other Class A double wall pipes. As long as you got it at a reasonable pipe, it should be fine.
 There is also,Selkirk, Duratech and probably others that are also very good.


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## Rangerbait (Jul 24, 2017)

double-d said:


> Champion brand pipe I believe is the Ventis Class A double wall Insulated pipe. It's a good pipe, as are several other Class A double wall pipes. As long as you got it at a reasonable pipe, it should be fine.
> There is also,Selkirk, Duratech and probably others that are also very good.



Which of the top end pipes are generally considered the best value?


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## begreen (Jul 24, 2017)

ICC Excel chimney is also very good quality pipe.


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## bholler (Jul 24, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Which of the top end pipes are generally considered the best value?


Ventis and excel are both very good.  It all depends on the price you get.

Selkirk and duratech are fine but not as good as ventis (champion) or excel.


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## Rangerbait (Jul 31, 2017)

It's been a little bit since my last update, but I have been busy...

Got the footing inspection done and the footings poured at the beginning of last weekend, so my goal of having the platform framed up by the end of the weekend seemed attainable...

Friday:




Sunday:




Mostly just did prep work during the work week, although I did remove the wall and frame in the new header on Tuesday after work:




Woke up to a raining Saturday yesterday, so dedicated a bit of time to setting up the scaffolding in preparation for framing the chase...




Nice view from 30' up...I'll have to go up one more buck, but will wait until I have some framing to secure it to...




Saturday was also a framing lumber run day, along with my "helpers"...




Sunday: we frame...








My goal was to have the framing completely done by the end of the weekend, but fell just short due to some lost productivity from the rain. I'll put in the little rafters on the right side where the chase jogs in by the upstairs windows, and add final section to get me 3' above the roof ridge after work a couple of days this week.

I also need to get the pipe and chase top ordered since I'll be ready for it pretty soon.


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## Squirrely (Jul 31, 2017)

What a great project.  

I like your methodical approach, and am enjoying the pictures of your progress.

Greg


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## xman23 (Jul 31, 2017)

So Ranger, based on your latest pictures i'm trying to figure out what it going to look like when your done. Is the stove going to sit in the alcove you framed out?


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## Rangerbait (Jul 31, 2017)

xman23 said:


> So Ranger, based on your latest pictures i'm trying to figure out what it going to look like when your done. Is the stove going to sit in the alcove you framed out?



Yes, the front glass will be on the same plane as the interior wall


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## Rangerbait (Aug 1, 2017)

Question: I am planning to put two recessed lights in the ceiling of the alcove...any issues with the wood stove getting them too hot? I'll have a good r30+ in the ceiling of the alcove, and will be using IC rated fixtures.


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## Squirrely (Aug 1, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> ...any issues with the wood stove getting them too hot?



Probably not.
Recessed cans have thermal limit switches that shut off power to the socket if they get too hot. The symptom would be the light shutting off for a few minutes while the switch cools off, then the light would turn on again by itself. The most common cause of overheating is installing old style non reflector incandescent bulbs which heat up the can. LED's still produce some heat, but not as much as incandescents or flourescents, so even added stove heat shouldn't be enough to cause any problems.


Greg


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## begreen (Aug 1, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Question: I am planning to put two recessed lights in the ceiling of the alcove...any issues with the wood stove getting them too hot? I'll have a good r30+ in the ceiling of the alcove, and will be using IC rated fixtures.


Allow the alcove to vent at its ceiling by not putting a solid lintel across the top front. That will stop heat from pocketing at the ceiling.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 1, 2017)

begreen said:


> Allow the alcove to vent at its ceiling by not putting a solid lintel across the top front. That will stop heat from pocketing at the ceiling.



I had initially planned to have that exact configuration, until my wife brought up that exact concern...I have since modified the design to make the alcove ceiling on the same plane as the bottom of the header.


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## begreen (Aug 1, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I had initially planned to have that exact configuration, until my wife brought up that exact concern...I have since modified the design to make the alcove ceiling on the same plane as the bottom of the header.


Good plan. You could put a decorative grillework across the top front, but wide open will work the best. Given that configuration the recessed lights should be ok.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 4, 2017)

Ditched work today and finished up the framing...I hope the chimney pipe comes in soon so I can put it in, call for the inspection, and get the bldg dept off my n-u-teez for this project. I guess I can start on the Durock inside of the alcove walls and floor, that way I can lose the tarp and get back to living indoors 

I ordered the concrete supplies today so I can get to work pouring the hearth pad as soon as that stuff comes in. Going with a concrete countertop system...I called their tech dept today to verify that a hearth is a supported application for the product, and they said absolutely. Pretty excited to do that part...I think it'll look awesome!

Once the hearth is done, I can get the stone guy out to do his thing. The stove is being delivered on the 16th, so if the hearth and stone is done, I'll be firing it up shortly thereafter!


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## Rangerbait (Aug 5, 2017)

Ok, quick question: I'm insulating the entire chase, but have read some recommendations that the interior of the chase also be dry walled...I'm using craft-faced fiberglass in the alcove (living area), but plan to use un-faced everywhere else with some netting to prevent anything from falling inward toward the pipe. Thoughts?


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## bholler (Aug 5, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Ok, quick question: I'm insulating the entire chase, but have read some recommendations that the interior of the chase also be dry walled...I'm using craft-faced fiberglass in the alcove (living area), but plan to use un-faced everywhere else with some netting to prevent anything from falling inward toward the pipe. Thoughts?


There is absolutly no reason to drywall the inside of the chase as long as you keep the insulation in place


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## Rangerbait (Aug 5, 2017)

bholler said:


> There is absolutly no reason to drywall the inside of the chase as long as you keep the insulation in place



That makes sense to me, but figured I'd throw it out there in case there was some other compelling reason. Thanks!


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## mcdougy (Aug 5, 2017)

If you are going to purchase your batt insulation, consider using roxul. It's fire retardant characteristics are excellentt.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 8, 2017)

My wife just sent me this glorious shot while I'm at work...the rest of the chimney parts and the concrete system for the hearth!!

I cashed in a couple of vacation days for Thursday and Friday, so my goal for the end of the weekend is to get the chimney stacked and inspected, the sheathing/flashing installed, and start making some good progress on the siding. I don't think I'll get around to pouring the hearth, but it could happen.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 11, 2017)

Update: passed the chimney and framing inspections today, and made a little progress on the sheathing. Once the T-showers started, I made a Home Depot run and grabbed the Roxul that I'll be installing tomorrow.

My goal for the end of the day is to get the 2nd and 3rd floors insulated, the rest of the sheathing hung and taped, and the rest of the flashing installed...at that point, the chase will be dried in (with the exception of the chase cover, which is on order). I will shift my attention to pouring the hearth pad next, so I can green-light the stone mason.

Question: the hearth company wants $300 to deliver the stove to my garage...I'm thinking about just having them forklift it into my truck bed, then figuring out how to get it into my garage once it's here...bad idea?


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## begreen (Aug 11, 2017)

I have always used my pickup to get stoves and bring them home. A good strong appliance dolly, movers blanket and ratchet straps make it pretty easy. Once there are wheels attached to the stove it's much easier to move. Do you have ramps for the pickup bed?


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## Squirrely (Aug 11, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Question: the hearth company wants $300 to deliver the stove to my garage...I'm thinking about just having them forklift it into my truck bed, then figuring out how to get it into my garage once it's here...bad idea?



Good idea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Gut the insides and take the door off. Two or three guys can move it


Greg


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## Rangerbait (Aug 11, 2017)

Squirrely said:


> Good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Leaning toward this option...I'd like to save at least a couple of Benjamins on this project...damn wood stoves are spendy!


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## bfast250 (Aug 12, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Leaning toward this option...I'd like to save at least a couple of Benjamins on this project...damn wood stoves are spendy!


I was really worried about this part of my install with the ~650 lb FP30. I built a ramp and used a mover dolly. Three of us lifted it off the dolly and onto the hearth pad.

I worried about it much more than I should have. Take your time and think it through and you will have no problem.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 13, 2017)

Need advice: I have the Roxul installed in the top 10' section of the chase so far, but can't come up with a good method of keeping the chase top insulation held up and away from the pipe...ideas?   Man, that Roxul is a pain in the D to work with!


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## begreen (Aug 13, 2017)

get some nylon string or light gauge wire and a staplegun. Run the string across the face of the roxul in a Z pattern from stud to the adjacent stud.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 13, 2017)

I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I insulated the chase with the pipe already in...that had me frustrated to no end.  My reasoning was that I wanted to button the chase up immediately after insulating since we've been getting gully-washing thundershowers nearly every afternoon.  For some reason, it didn't occur to me that I could unscrew and pull the pipe out in a matter of minutes.  Tomorrow after work, that's what I'll be doing, and then will proceed with the string option.  I feel like a tool now.


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## bholler (Aug 13, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I insulated the chase with the pipe already in...that had me frustrated to no end.  My reasoning was that I wanted to button the chase up immediately after insulating since we've been getting gully-washing thundershowers nearly every afternoon.  For some reason, it didn't occur to me that I could unscrew and pull the pipe out in a matter of minutes.  Tomorrow after work, that's what I'll be doing, and then will proceed with the string option.  I feel like a tool now.


All of us including pros like me have done stuff like that.  You get done and look at it and realize you made it allot harder than it had to be


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## Rangerbait (Aug 14, 2017)

Question: I got the fan kit with my King, so I need to wire in a 120v outlet to plug it into...is there a best location for the outlet, and what is a good gang box/plate cover for this duty?  I was planning to put it directly behind the stove at the floor height.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 15, 2017)

I picked up the King from the shop today, and my neighbor grabbed it out of my truck for me with his Deere.  It'll have to sit in the garage for a week or more, but it's getting closer to test fire time everyday :-D


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## begreen (Aug 15, 2017)

Good neighbor!


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## Rangerbait (Aug 16, 2017)

Got the last bit of insulation done in the top section of the chase after work today (again I say that Roxul is some miserable shite to work with), then nailed off the last sheet of sheathing. The pipe extends just far enough above the top sheathing of the chase to allow me to put the last 1' section of pipe and get some screws into it, but that'll have to wait until the stainless chase cover shows up.  I still have the 2nd floor of the chase to insulate and finish sheathing, but that should go much quicker since it's 8' vice 10' like the top section is, and only has 3 walls to insulate since it shares a wall with the master bath.

Question: would it be worthwhile to open a vent between the chase and the bathroom in order to redirect some of the radiant heat of the pipe, or is it not significant enough to even bother?


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## Rangerbait (Aug 18, 2017)

Well...another day, another lesson learned. I was sitting on the toilet this morning taking inventory of all of the myriad tasks I have left to do on this project, and my stomach dropped...I realized that when I gave the guy taking my chase cover order the dimensions I needed, that I neglected to factor in the vinyl siding's outside corners that the cover needs to, well, cover. DAMMIT! I called them up and asked if they could fab me a piece to slide under the skirt of the cover, step out the 1" all around I need, and then extend down to create a new 3" skirt. 

They sure can! Albeit, for $300 more dollars.  Stupid should hurt, and today it did.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 19, 2017)

Ready to pour the hearth pad in the morning.


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## Squirrely (Aug 20, 2017)

Your work is absolutely impeccable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Greg


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 20, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Got the last bit of insulation done in the top section of the chase after work today (again I say that Roxul is some miserable shite to work with),



Really? I think it's much preferable and healthier to work with than fiberglass batts. And performance wise, there is no comparison, it rocks! (pun intended)


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## Rangerbait (Aug 20, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Really? I think it's much preferable and healthier to work with than fiberglass batts. And performance wise, there is no comparison, it rocks! (pun intended)



Healthier? Maybe I got a bad batch...that crap crumbled under its own weight, and is miserably itchy to boot.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 20, 2017)

Got 'er poured today as planned, but not without much frustration. My drill burned out mixing the first batch,so I ran to HD to see if they had something that would work (which they did not), then headed home planning to bag the project. My neighbor convinced me to soldier on, and helped me mix the remaining 6 bags by hand. The first bag was already getting pretty stiff by then, so that made the whole screeding process pretty tough.  I missed the float window since I was still trying to get the screeding done, so the surface is a bit "rustic". Oh well, a little patching paste, sanding, and stain should make it look just fine.

Masonry has always been my Achilles heel.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 21, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Healthier? Maybe I got a bad batch...that crap crumbled under its own weight, and is miserably itchy to boot.



Were the packages beat up? You should be able to pop them open right at the install site and pop them in the stud bays with minimal effort. If you need to cut it, don't use a utility knife, use a long serrated blade with scallops (not sharp pointed serrations).

Fiberglass has a much finer fiber which is more hazardous to your lungs. In both cases you should wear a dust mask during installation. I use it in place of fiberglass for health and performance reasons. It has a higher R-value and it's heavier density makes it a very good sound insulator as well. If it ever gets wet it doesn't turn to mush like fiberglass. And of course the reason you are using it, it's high melting point.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 21, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Got 'er poured today as planned, but not without much frustration. My drill burned out mixing the first batch,so I ran to HD to see if they had something that would work (which they did not), then headed home planning to bag the project. My neighbor convinced me to soldier on, and helped me mix the remaining 6 bags by hand. The first bag was already getting pretty stiff by then, so that made the whole screeding process pretty tough.  I missed the float window since I was still trying to get the screeding done, so the surface is a bit "rustic". Oh well, a little patching paste, sanding, and stain should make it look just fine.
> 
> Masonry has always been my Achilles heel.



Concrete work. It helps to be prepared. For small batches I like a Rubi electric mixer with a two speed gearbox. Drill motors were not designed for mortars:

http://www.masterwholesale.com/rubimix-9-n-24949.html

But for a lot less money and a little bit of sweat, the old school method works almost as well:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Razor-Back-7-in-Forged-Gooseneck-Mortar-Hoe-66123/100121903


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## Rangerbait (Aug 21, 2017)

Question about a vapor barrier in the alcove...there will be 1/2" durock with approx. 3" of cultured stone veneer on top of that. The sheathing is 7/16" Zip System that will have vinyl siding on top of it. 

Planning to go with R15 Roxul, but do I need a vapor barrier in there or not?


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## Rangerbait (Aug 26, 2017)

Alrighty...got the insulation and most of the Durock done in the the past two days...went with R-15 Roxul in the walls and a dual layer of R-15 Roxul in the ceiling of the alcove. Got all of the Durock hung today and mostly taped, as well as hung the drywall lid of the alcove. Tomorrow I will finish the taping, and hang/tape the remaining drywall around the opening. Wednesday, the stone guy comes. I'm thinking that I should get the drywall that's adjacent to the stone primed and painted before the guy gets here, so hopefully I have time to squeeze that in.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 27, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Got all of the Durock hung today and mostly taped, as well as hung the drywall lid of the alcove. Tomorrow I will finish the taping, and hang/tape the remaining drywall around the opening. Wednesday, the stone guy comes. I'm thinking that I should get the drywall that's adjacent to the stone primed and painted before the guy gets here, so hopefully I have time to squeeze that in.



I would add some more fasteners to the cement board. You don't want to skimp here because they are the only thing supporting the weight of the stones, mortar and cement board.


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## begreen (Aug 27, 2017)

Good catch. I believe the requirement is one screw every 8".


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## Rangerbait (Aug 27, 2017)

The fastening specs are as follows:

"Wall & Ceiling Installation 1/2" & 5/8"  - Fasten to studs spaced 16" o.c. Space fasteners 8" o.c. for walls, 6" o.c. for ceilings. Fit ends and edges of panels closely but not forced together."

My screws are all precisely 8" o.c...it just may not look like it in the photos.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 27, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> The fastening specs are as follows:
> 
> "Wall & Ceiling Installation 1/2" & 5/8"  - Fasten to studs spaced 16" o.c. Space fasteners 8" o.c. for walls, 6" o.c. for ceilings. Fit ends and edges of panels closely but not forced together."
> 
> My screws are all precisely 8" o.c...it just may not look like it in the photos.



It looks like the three panels on the right side of the alcove all need another vertical row of fasteners (on the first stud past the corner) to meet the 16" on center rule.

The fastening schedule is the minimum acceptable and is not overkill at all.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 27, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> My screws are all precisely 8" o.c...it just may not look like it in the photos.



Saying it doesn't make it so.

To meet the 8" oc minimum, a 3' wide sheet of cement board needs at least 4 central fasteners per stud in addition to the two edge fasteners (for a total of 6). You only have 3 central fasteners which implies a spacing over the maximum of 8".


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## Rangerbait (Aug 27, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Saying it doesn't make it so.
> 
> To meet the 8" oc minimum, a 3' wide sheet of cement board needs at least 4 central fasteners per stud in addition to the two edge fasteners (for a total of 6). You only have 3 central fasteners which implies a spacing over the maximum of 8".



Upon closer inspection, you are absolutely right...I miscounted on the first board, and copied the pattern on the rest assuming it was right. Good catch...thanks!


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## WoodyIsGoody (Aug 28, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Upon closer inspection, you are absolutely right...I miscounted on the first board, and copied the pattern on the rest assuming it was right. Good catch...thanks!



Not a problem.


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## NateH (Aug 30, 2017)

This has been an incredibly helpful thread to me. I'm in the process of (finally) starting my hearth... had to wait on my wood stove install till this summer when I added on to the house. 

I'm very impressed with all the work you've done, RB.


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## Rangerbait (Aug 30, 2017)

NateH said:


> This has been an incredibly helpful thread to me. I'm in the process of (finally) starting my hearth... had to wait on my wood stove install till this summer when I added on to the house.
> 
> I'm very impressed with all the work you've done, RB.



Glad to help, man...a mistake learned from is a mistake tempered.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 2, 2017)

So...the stone guy had to push me out until next weekend, but all is well since I can start working on the siding in the meantime. I also figured I'd pull the stove out of its crating to prepare for the first burn out in the driveway this weekend to keep from filling the house with paint fumes. As I cut the shrink wrap and strapping, I discovered that the door was missing. Awesome. 

The hearth store is closed until Tuesday; no burn for me this weekend :-(

Hoping everything goes smoothly when I call the place on Tuesday...there was already a little drama when I initially ordered the thing; the salesman quoted me a great price, then when it came time to put down the deposit, he told me the catalog changed and the stoves are now sold without doors, and it'd be another $340 for the glass door. Possibly an honest mistake, but I was not happy about that at all...and now the damn thing isn't even here. Hopefully it's somewhere in the shop, and doesn't have to be ordered.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 2, 2017)

Had to break down and turn the heat pump on...was down in the mid-60s in the house. Going to get everything primed/painted tomorrow, and then go test out the thumb we put on my dad's backhoe...should come in handy when I bring in a load of logs!


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## Rangerbait (Sep 3, 2017)

Very nice!


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## Michael Sean (Sep 3, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Very nice!
> 
> View attachment 199814


Looks like it works quite nicely


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## Rangerbait (Sep 3, 2017)

Since I have tomorrow and Tuesday off (burning through vacation days like they're made out of balsa wood), I'm going to make some headway on the siding. It looks like it should go pretty fast, but I've never worked with the stuff, and I do have a couple of interesting plane-interfaces to figure out the trimming for. Wish me luck!


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## Rangerbait (Sep 4, 2017)

It was definitely slow going at first getting the corners installed plumb and figuring out the correct firring for the fascia, but made a little progress nevertheless...tomorrow my dad will be here to run the miter saw so I can focus on throwing the siding up. Man, the rest of the house looks shabby now next to the new siding.


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## Squirrely (Sep 4, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> . As I cut the shrink wrap and strapping, I discovered that the door was missing. Awesome.
> 
> The hearth store is closed until Tuesday; no burn for me this weekend :-(
> 
> Hoping everything goes smoothly when I call the place on Tuesday...there was already a little drama when I initially ordered the thing; the salesman quoted me a great price, then when it came time to put down the deposit, he told me the catalog changed and the stoves are now sold without doors, and it'd be another $340 for the glass door. Possibly an honest mistake, but I was not happy about that at all...and now the damn thing isn't even here. Hopefully it's somewhere in the shop, and doesn't have to be ordered.



What?
They sell a freaking stove without a freaking door? That has to be just about the most idiotic sales tactic I've heard yet.
They would have gotten a foxtrot oscar from me as I left to go somewhere else to buy a stove.

Greg


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 5, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Man, the rest of the house looks shabby now next to the new siding.
> 
> View attachment 199868



Lookin' good!

Now, what would really set the whole thing off is to build a flared stone "foundation" at the base!


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## Rangerbait (Sep 5, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Lookin' good!
> 
> Now, what would really set the whole thing off is to build a flared stone "foundation" at the base!



I know! I'm thinking about maybe a planter box on all three sides for the time being...next summer I am rebuilding/extending the deck to wrap the chase and have an entrance from the driveway.


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## blades (Sep 5, 2017)

Seen more than a few stoves offered for sale that do not include the door, and these are not the cheap ones either. years ago bought a new utility van , passenger seat( not a rear seat but that was also extra) , spare tire and a few other things were all extras.


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## bholler (Sep 5, 2017)

Squirrely said:


> What?
> They sell a freaking stove without a freaking door? That has to be just about the most idiotic sales tactic I've heard yet.
> They would have gotten a foxtrot oscar from me as I left to go somewhere else to buy a stove.
> 
> Greg


Some companies do it so they dont have to test the stove with the different door options.  But the dealer should have made sure they ordered a door it is kind of nessecary.


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## Squirrely (Sep 5, 2017)

The door options appear to be plain, silver plating, and gold plating.

Rangerbait, did the dealer ask you which door finish you wanted when you ordered the stove?

Greg


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## Rangerbait (Sep 5, 2017)

Question: what's a good concrete sealer to use for this application...you know, something that's not going to catch on fire?


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## Rangerbait (Sep 5, 2017)

Squirrely said:


> The door options appear to be plain, silver plating, and gold plating.
> 
> Rangerbait, did the dealer ask you which door finish you wanted when you ordered the stove?
> 
> Greg



Yes, I specified the plain door with glass...he gave me a quote for the stove with side shields, fan kit, and plain feet, but when I came in to put the deposit down, he told me there was no door included in the quote.


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## Squirrely (Sep 5, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Yes, I specified the plain door with glass...he gave me a quote for the stove with side shields, fan kit, and plain feet, but when I came in to put the deposit down, he told me there was no door included in the quote.



Ok, if the total wasn't out of line with MSRP it was likely an honest mistake. Heck, once you fire it up it won't matter anyways! 

Greg


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## Rangerbait (Sep 5, 2017)

Squirrely said:


> Ok, if the total wasn't out of line with MSRP it was likely an honest mistake. Heck, once you fire it up it won't matter anyways!
> 
> Greg



Update: they ordered a new door for me today...hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here!


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 6, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Update: they ordered a new door for me today...hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here!



Hopefully they don't say "Oh, you wanted us to supply the glass and handle too?" Ka-ching!


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## Rangerbait (Sep 6, 2017)

Anyone have any advice on a good concrete sealer for this application?


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## bfast250 (Sep 6, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> Anyone have any advice on a good concrete sealer for this application?


I just used StoneTech Bulletproof on my limestone hearth. I found it here and it had great reviews. Not sure it's appropriate for your situation though.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00065W8G8/?tag=hearthamazon-20


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## Rangerbait (Sep 9, 2017)

The stone guys come tomorrow at 8am...hopefully by this time tomorrow it'll be looking awesome!


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## Squirrely (Sep 10, 2017)

Thanks for sharing your project. It's enjoyable watching it unfold, and I'm sure it's rewarding you with a lot of personal satisfaction. 

Greg


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## Rangerbait (Sep 10, 2017)

Here's day one's progress...I'm stoked on how it looks!


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## Rangerbait (Sep 11, 2017)

Almost done...tomorrow they'll finish the corner wrap and fill the bigger gaps with mortar.


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## NateH (Sep 12, 2017)

That stone looks great! What company or rather where did you get the material?


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## Rangerbait (Sep 12, 2017)

NateH said:


> That stone looks great! What company or rather where did you get the material?



The "stone" is a cast veneer product from EP Henry...it's very convincing. I considered ordering the product and installing it myself, but after watching how much labor is involved, I'm really glad I didn't do it. A local landscape/hardscape company that has done a lot of work in my neighborhood and comes highly recommended is doing the job.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 12, 2017)

All done...now to settle on a stain color for the slab...I'm thinking a slightly darker grey than what it already is.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 17, 2017)

We have a chase cover and rain cap!


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 17, 2017)

excellent work far better than what I could ever do, I love this thread so far


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## Rangerbait (Sep 18, 2017)

Got the last bit of siding done after work today...finally!


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## Chas0218 (Sep 19, 2017)

Lcback said:


> If your doing a stainless chimney, it's the easiest part of the whole process. They click together and twist. 3ft at a time.  Keep your clearances and your all set.
> 
> I used Duravent triple wall, insulated, class a. I got it at home Depot for $89 per 3 foot section. It's not what the pros use, but I don't see what's wrong with it.


This is what I am doing but mine is an exterior install with thru the wall kit. I found the wall support brackets cheapest on Amazon, and the piping is the cheapest around at my local Homedepot. Wholesale can't even touch their price. $84.95 for 3' stainless triple wall is a steal if you look around at what everyone else has it for.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 19, 2017)

Scaffolding a all loaded up in the truck and ready to be returned tomorrow...also pressure washed the siding to make it all purdy like.  Next stop: wrapping up the interior work.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 21, 2017)

Getting ready to fire off for the first time...question: does the cat thermometer just sit in the hole forward of the stove pipe, or does it get secured somehow? Manual doesn't specify.


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## Rangerbait (Sep 21, 2017)

Fire in the hole!


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 21, 2017)

just sits there


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## Rangerbait (Sep 21, 2017)

Man...I'm really happy I did this outdoors for the first burn...there was visible smoke coming off of every surface once the stove got up to temp. Glad that didn't end up in the house!


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 21, 2017)

I burned my Chinook off inside. It smoked visibly for a couple of hours and I could smell it for the first day but it was never that strong because I had all the windows open (including the upstairs). So all the bad air was continuously drafted out the window at the top of the stairs. When you install yours the draft will be stronger so it's possible new areas might burn off from the extra heat. Just open the windows, it goes out.


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## FPX Dude (Nov 5, 2017)

Ok, this has been fun to watch, so when do we get to see the final final?


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## Rangerbait (Nov 14, 2017)

I just realized that I never paid this thread off...here she is, after a couple weeks of burning!


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## edyit (Nov 14, 2017)

very nice!


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## xman23 (Nov 14, 2017)

Now your finished


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## BlankBlankBlank (Nov 14, 2017)

Great job on the class A install.  Smart to use the Roxul insulation.  Your stonework and stove install are top notch.


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## ben94122 (Nov 16, 2017)

What did you decide to do with the outlet for the blower?


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## UPswede (Nov 16, 2017)

Very nice!!


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## Rangerbait (Nov 18, 2017)

ben94122 said:


> What did you decide to do with the outlet for the blower?



I installed an outlet directly behind the stove. The power cord is not visible at all from the front of the stove.


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## FPX Dude (Nov 20, 2017)

Looks great, anything you'd change or do differently?


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## Rangerbait (Nov 24, 2017)

FPX Dude said:


> Looks great, anything you'd change or do differently?



Thanks...pay someone else to do it while I go camping?  

All kidding aside, I would have just gone with some sort of stonework for the hearth pad instead of pouring a concrete pad. Was too much work, and didn't come out as good as I was hoping.


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## jatoxico (Nov 24, 2017)

Rangerbait said:


> All kidding aside, I would have just gone with some sort of stonework for the hearth pad instead of pouring a concrete pad.



Looks good in pics. Real nice job.


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