# What is this stuff in my yard?



## Soundchasm (Sep 6, 2014)

Over the years, I've become less inclined to maintain my lawn with fertilizer and weed control, but that's all caught up to me now.  I've used Ortho Weed B Gon on the clover and the crabgrass, so I have a strategy for those, but I'm not sure what this stuff is.

Hopefully it can be identified to be sprayed and killed or stopped with pre-emergent.  It started out as 2' circles and now occupies large swaths.

Could it be Bermuda grass?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 6, 2014)

I don't think it's Bermuda grass.  My best guess is this is the same stuff.  Found this larger specimen at the edge of the property.


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## bsruther (Sep 6, 2014)

There are a lot of weed type grasses. What about nimblewill, I think it might be a bermuda grass variation, not sure.
I have a constant battle with weeds in the yard, plantain, knotweed, clover, crabgrass you name it. Never ending battle.
I really hate the plantains, especially the broadleaf one.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 6, 2014)

bsruther said:


> There are a lot of weed type grasses. What about nimblewill, I think it might be a bermuda grass variation, not sure.
> I have a constant battle with weeds in the yard, plantain, knotweed, clover, crabgrass you name it. Never ending battle.
> I really hate the plantains, especially the broadleaf one.



When I first got a house, I figured I'd get the yard done and that'd be it!  Man, was I in for a surprise.  My conclusion is that there is nothing other than yard "maintenance".  I'd be kicking myself in the spring for fertilizing it and having to mow every 4-5 days, but it could look so gorgeous in the fall.

What I read about Bermuda grass indicated it's a long-term fight.  This stuff looks really close except for the seeds.  Suppression was the only word used by websites.  And I thought Creeping Charlie and Honeysuckle were going to be the worst...

The bright side is it's not Kudzu?


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## Soundchasm (Sep 6, 2014)

Hey, I think you totally NAILED it with Nimblewill.  Web photos are identical.  OK, now it's time to see what my options are!!  Thanks!


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## BrotherBart (Sep 6, 2014)

I wish to heck I had planted this place in Bermuda grass when I first moved in 29 years ago. Had it in Texas and loved it. But I would have had to have the seed flown in.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 6, 2014)

Brother Bart, over the 12 years I've been here, many's the time it was the only green stuff in the yard.  I can't believe how persistently this stuff is on the march.

Here's what I found on a Purdue website.
*Chemical control:* There are nonselective and selective control options available for nimblewill. Usually, stoloniferous, perennial grasses are controlled by spot-treating with a nonselective systemic herbicide such as glyphosate (Roundup). For best results, apply when the plants are young and actively growing. However, because nimblewill is capable of re-establishing through surviving stolons, at least two glyphosate applications are recommended, but three or more may be needed for complete eradication. It is important to allow the weed to regrow before making any follow-up applications.

Two new herbicides provide selective control options for nimblewill in cool-season turf. These herbicides are applied at relatively low use rates and homeowners are encouraged to hire lawn care professionals to make applications. 

Mesotrione (Tenacity) can be used for selective control of nimblewill growing in a cool-season turf. To control nimblewill, start applying mesotrione in the spring (late-April) with a nonionic surfactant at 0.25% (v/v). You will need to make two or three applications. If you make three applications, use the 5 fl oz/A rate (or 6, 6 and 4 fl oz/A). The product does have a yearly maximum use rate, and the label states “do not apply more than 16 oz of Tenacity per acre per year or per crop (equivalent to a maximum of 0.50 lb of mesotrione per acre per year).” You can also apply mesotrione in late summer and fall, but you should initiate them by August for best results.

Another option is to apply topramezone (Pylex) at 1-1.5 fl oz/A at 21- to 28-day intervals starting in late April. For best results, include a methylated seed oil at 0.5-1.0% (v/v).


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## BrotherBart (Sep 6, 2014)

When we all built these houses 30 years ago we all were bonkers with the fertilizer, re-seeding and lime and stuff every year. I notice that everybody is like I am now. If it is green we call it grass and just mow it.


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## semipro (Sep 7, 2014)

What BB said.  
We gave up on fertilizer and pesticides about 10 years ago and our lawn looks about 95% as good as it ever did. IMO, its just not worth it. 
Besides, this stuff is still having a bad impact on things that affect our water and food supplies. Think algal plumes (red tides) and bee colony collapse.


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## mithesaint (Sep 7, 2014)

I have problems with Nimblewill in my backyard as well.  I've found that the Tenacity works, but you need at least three applications.  I put on two applications last fall, and it all looked dead, but it was back this spring.  I started working on it again this summer, but then it completely stopped raining and I stopped spraying because I didn't want to kill the rest of the grass.  I'll try again next spring.  

I understand what most are saying about just letting it go and dropping the fertilizer and pesticide thing, but this nimblewill stuff is a completely different green than the rest of the yard.  Looks terrible.  I don't fertilize much, and I only apply pesticides when I have a specific problem, but some of these weeds gotta go!  Keeping the weeds under control but not using fertilizer has actually made for less lawn work for me.  I haven't mowed the back half of my yard in a month.  We haven't gotten any rain, and the grass went dormant.  Usually there is still clover and buckhorn and queen anne's lace that needs to be mowed, but that's not a problem anymore.


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## Warm_in_NH (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm just grateful for anything green in my yard. Limes the heck out of it for 4 years just to get it to transition from moss to more of a grassy type of vegetation.  
Now I hit it once a year with a lime/mild fertilizer combo and it's good enough for me.
A lot of people take the mentality of "if the recommended around of "x" is good than "2x" must be better" and that's part of the source of a lot of the negative impacts semipro mentioned.


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## semipro (Sep 7, 2014)

mithesaint said:


> I have problems with Nimblewill in my backyard as well.  I've found that the Tenacity works, but you need at least three applications.  I put on two applications last fall, and it all looked dead, but it was back this spring.  I started working on it again this summer, but then it completely stopped raining and I stopped spraying because I didn't want to kill the rest of the grass.  .


Perhaps killing everything where the Nimblewill invasion is and starting over would be easier...
Maybe less chemicals, money, and work in the long run.
Maybe not.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 7, 2014)

When we moved in I was really gung-ho to get a lawn going because cutting grass was a big chore growing up (and I liked it), and this place had severe erosion, so I had to do something.  So between seed and sod I got front, back and side done.  I always tried to spread any chemicals thinly, because I secretly referred to Dad as "Chemical Ali" when he'd have a spill or pour a runway strip out in the yard, and I realized I have to drink that stuff, too.

I had it managed down to mainly water and spot-killing dandelions, but we lost so many trees the whole thing changed.  I've been overseeding with the low-water tall fescues, but that drought+full sun a couple summers ago really gave a leg-up to this Nimblewill.

With all the scrounging and splitting this summer, I don't have the ambition to Round-up 3X, till, seed and water.  Even though the patches are big, I'll still be spot treating them with my 5-gallon back-pack (or jet pack, as my wife calls it).


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## firefighterjake (Sep 7, 2014)

Up here anything that is green and growing where I mow is considered "grass." Then again I've never been gung ho on having the perfect lawn . . . or the work that goes into it . . . I figure some animal (my own, neighbor's or wild) will just come along and crap on it anyways.


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## mithesaint (Sep 8, 2014)

semipro said:


> Perhaps killing everything where the Nimblewill invasion is and starting over would be easier...
> Maybe less chemicals, money, and work in the long run.
> Maybe not.



I strongly considered that option, but I have small patches of it scattered across the whole backyard.  I'd essentially have to kill off the entire backyard and start over.  That would be  approximately 120x120 area.  For some reason, getting grass started here is rather difficult.  Once it's established, it does well, but it's very difficult to get started.  I'm sticking with the selective killing and overseeding for now.  Might change my mind in a year or two.  We'll see.


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## jebatty (Sep 9, 2014)

Our solution to lawn care was for my wife to agree to be responsible for the lawn. The result has been a greatly shrunk yard to mow: back yard mowed sq ft about 200, one side yard 600, other side yard is 0, front yard 1200. Also no fertilizer, no weed killers, and all clippings deposited where the mower leaves them. Plus, the lawn gets mowed very infrequently, only 3 times this summer, probably will get one more mowing before winter. We think that most of the time lawns are non-functional and therefore deserve minimal time and $ resources.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 25, 2014)

I ordered Tenacity and got it applied 9/16.  $60 for 8 oz and also bought surfactant.  Thought it to be hugely expensive until I confirmed the mix ration is 1/2 Tsp/Gl.  They actually include a syringe so you can draw the product in and measure it.  It is w/o a doubt the most fiddly to mix stuff I ever worked with.  I concluded to mix in a 2 Gl bucket by adding surfactant first, then Tenacity, then stir, then pour in my 5 Gl sprayer.  

The photos don't reflect 100% of the treatment (no side yard, etc), but I did 16 gallons of spot treatment.  It's crazy; the sprayed stuff is turning white.  It's not brown and burned, it's like the chlorophyll gets sucked out.  If things get any whiter, I'm going to add it to my laundry.

Though it's supposed to be selective, if a blade of grass is wide enough it's got a white stripe through it.  The narrow blades can be unaffected.

I'm not sure now whether to spray again to achieve a complete kill, or let the grass to try outcompete it, or throw some seed in there and spray the Nimblewill once or twice next year.


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## Soundchasm (Sep 25, 2014)

Here are some close-ups.  You can see the grass with a zebra stripe, and it's very hard to tell if the Nimblewill has been affected down the entire length of the stalk.  Time will tell.


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## bsruther (Sep 25, 2014)

I'll have to check into that stuff next year. Some areas of my yard are so overrun with weeds that I can't do the scorched earth thing or that's exactly what it will end up being. I've been seeding the yard regularly for the past few years and some of the outer areas where the weeds were heavy are starting to come around. Last winter really gave the grass a beating though.

I have gotten rid of most of the clover near the house. What were people thinking when they used to plant that stuff? Maybe they enjoyed getting bees stuck between their flipflop and foot when they walked across the grass.


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## maple1 (Sep 25, 2014)

firefighterjake said:


> Up here anything that is green and growing where I mow is considered "grass." Then again I've never been gung ho on having the perfect lawn . . . or the work that goes into it . . . I figure some animal (my own, neighbor's or wild) will just come along and crap on it anyways.


 
Likewise. Have never fertilized or pesticided anything. Just run the ride-on over it - it all looks pretty well the same when it's mowed.


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## mithesaint (Sep 25, 2014)

Spray it again 3 weeks after the first treatment  I sprayed mine twice last fall, and it still came back this spring, although not nearly as much.  Mine looked exactly like yours last fall, and after the second treatment I thought I was done.  Wrong.  It's much better than it was, and I'm going to attack it next spring.  I was going to do it this fall, but we didn't get any rain this summer, so my spraying was really limited.  I'd overseed and fertilize after the second application.


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## Fsappo (Oct 23, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> When we all built these houses 30 years ago we all were bonkers with the fertilizer, re-seeding and lime and stuff every year. I notice that everybody is like I am now. If it is green we call it grass and just mow it.



That's priceless, my neighbors and I say the same thing now.  Favorite term when examining each others propertys over a cold beverage.  "Its still green" and "you really cant tell the difference from the road"


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## dougstove (Oct 23, 2014)

I made a deal with my kids, that if they would mow, I would destroy grassed areas and replace it with gardens, shrubs and beds as fast as I could.
Now, we have no lawn, just shrub, berry, tree and perennial vegetable beds.


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## Lumber-Jack (Oct 25, 2014)

I can see the white bleached grass in the green areas, but what's with the yellow blotched areas? Looks like you have compound problems.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 25, 2014)

The good news . . . if this problem hasn't cleared up by now . . . in another few weeks you may be able to cover it up with some snow, perhaps?


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## Soundchasm (Oct 28, 2014)

Lumberjack, the circles are from the Tenacity.  Not exactly sure which bit you're seeing, but some of the Nimblewill had started to go dormant before the application.  That stuff was more yellow-gray-brown kind of stuff.  I've never counted how many species of grass are growing in my yard, but their name is Legion for they are many.  Always battling the Creeping Charlie, clover, dandelions, moles and stuff, but this Nimblewill may have been hitting20+% of the yard.


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## Dune (Nov 5, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> Lumberjack, the circles are from the Tenacity.  Not exactly sure which bit you're seeing, but some of the Nimblewill had started to go dormant before the application.  That stuff was more yellow-gray-brown kind of stuff.  I've never counted how many species of grass are growing in my yard, but their name is Legion for they are many.  Always battling the Creeping Charlie, clover, dandelions, moles and stuff, but this Nimblewill may have been hitting20+% of the yard.


I wish I had your (lack of) problems.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 6, 2014)

Dune said:


> I wish I had your (lack of) problems.



How bad is your yard? In 12 years, I've brought in 40 yards of topsoil to rebuild eroded hills, cleaned up and repaired after 11 major trees came down, roto-tilled every inch of the yard, applied skids of sod and a few hundred pounds of seed.  I'm pretty happy to get to this level of triviality.


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## Dune (Nov 8, 2014)

Soundchasm said:


> How bad is your yard? In 12 years, I've brought in 40 yards of topsoil to rebuild eroded hills, cleaned up and repaired after 11 major trees came down, roto-tilled every inch of the yard, applied skids of sod and a few hundred pounds of seed.  I'm pretty happy to get to this level of triviality.



In 20 years I have mowed the weeds perhaps 35 times. My lawnmowers don't wear out, they rust out. 
I have what is known as a Cape Cod lawn. Since I live on the edge of an estuary no pesticides, fertilizers or anything else is ever poured on my soil. On the other hand, every place is upstream of something.


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## Soundchasm (Nov 8, 2014)

Dune said:


> In 20 years I have mowed the weeds perhaps 35 times. My lawnmowers don't wear out, they rust out.
> I have what is known as a Cape Cod lawn. Since I live on the edge of an estuary no pesticides, fertilizers or anything else is ever poured on my soil. On the other hand, every place is upstream of something.



I was wondering if your situation was something like you described, given your handle.  I was imagining that half your property might be gone one day, and then double some other day.  

I've cooled my jets putting stuff on the lawn over time.  But my erosion problem was severe when I moved in.  In the back, it was so bad that terracing crossed my mind as a reasonable solution.

Regarding being upstream/downstream, I'm fighting a battle with the township to police the developers who have overloaded the creek that borders my property.  The creek used to be 30' from my back line, and in 5-6 years some of it is now 15' away.  Getting that addressed has become VERY complicated.  At least my yard has stopped vanishing.


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