# Smoke Detector Sounds Off--But No Smoke?



## builderbob (Oct 15, 2007)

Repost from another topic title for Log-a-rthymn:

Has anyone every had a smoke detector go off without the presence of smoke? This is my first season burning with an insert and would appreciate any insights. 

scenario: 
1. Had a clean roaring fire burning (approx. 500 degrees) with the door closed. 
2. blower on medium speed 
3. could not smell or see smoke 
4. very cautious wife could not smell or see smoke 
5. smoke detector starting going off with a good battery 
6. smoke detector is next to ceiling beam that could allow heat from stove blower to collect or gather behind the beam 

This made me wonder if smoke detectors work off of extreme temperature changes rather then smoke. 

Any thoughts? 

dan 

 Signature 
Napoleon 1402 insert


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## philaphire (Oct 15, 2007)

Dan,

Smoke detectors do work off extreme heat but I don't think that's what set it off.  Mine went off the first couple times my stove hit 450-550 degrees too but I think it was the paint curing that set it off more so than the heat.  At least I think so because it hasn't gone off again.  Any others out there with similar experiences?


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## elkimmeg (Oct 15, 2007)

When is the last time you cleaned that smoke detector?  dust can gather in it and cause false alarms  Use a vac on blower mode and blow it out

 how old is it? as they age their detection abilities become eradicate  T I think their life span is about 10 years .

Having  I could be one puff back from loading the stove that can cause an alarm. There could be a time delay till air currents move that smoke near the  detector


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## DriftWood (Oct 15, 2007)

One of mine went off this summer all open windows 90s out side in a one year old detector. It was dusty cleaned it off it stoped. Scary though trying to see what the problem was. Some times just call the fire department and let them figure out whats really going on


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## DiscoInferno (Oct 15, 2007)

Are you still curing the paint on the insert?  That gives off vapors that, while generally invisible (although you can usually smell them), can definitely set off ionization-type smoke detectors.  It may happen each time you hit a new "record" high temperature also.  It will probably stop happening after a few more fires.


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## jtp10181 (Oct 15, 2007)

Normally smoke detectors work by emitting some sort of isotope (I can't remember what exactly). Since that was about all I could remember here is a link I found...

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa071401a.htm


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## Gunner (Oct 15, 2007)

First of all smoke detectors have nothing to do with heat....that's why there are heat detectors.

There are two types of smoke detectors a)ionization and b)photoelectric

Ionization detectors use a small amount of americium to ionize air molecules within the detector, when particulate(smoke) enters the detector they lower the conductivity of the molecules and trip the alarm. This type of detector can be hyper sensative and will react with particulate smaller than you can see. They are said to be better at detecting a fast flaming fire.

Photoelectric detectors use a light source and a photoelectric cell, when the light is obscured the alarm is set off. They are better at detecting a smoldering fire.

Elk is right about the dust, but I bet you have an ion type....if it continues to give you false alarms you could swap it out with a photoelectric or relocate it in the room.

Driftwood,
I hope you mean the non-emergency line...although we do get our fair share of people who call 911 cause "the detector keeps chirping every now and then, but there's no smoke" :roll:


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## DriftWood (Oct 15, 2007)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Driftwood,
> I hope you mean the non-emergency line...although we do get our fair share of people who call 911 cause "the detector keeps chirping every now and then, but there's no smoke" :roll:



Just call the fire department any way you choose, 911 or a call to the fire chief non-emergency line, your choice.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 15, 2007)

Dust on a stove top can do it. Hits the right temperature and a little "poof" that you don't even see and a few minutes later the detector goes off.


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## Gunner (Oct 15, 2007)

Sorry Driftwood 911 is for an EMERGENCY, not to figure out why you detector is giving nusence alarms when there is obviously no fire. Last year we responded to over 25000 calls, trouble shooting your detector keeps up from being where we might actually be needed.


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## backpack09 (Oct 15, 2007)

Ok, so I am not the only one having this issue.  I also assumed it was due to the offgassing of the stove while it breaks in.  So, I pull it and pulled the battery when I start the stove for the next week or so.


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## Gunner (Oct 15, 2007)

Backpack,

Put you battery back in a relocate the detector so it not to close to the stove.  If it's a new stove this will go away, but not a good idea to remove the battery unless you have atleast one detector per story elsewhere in the house.


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## MrGriz (Oct 15, 2007)

I had the same issue when mine was curing. It stopped setting off the detector after three or four fires. If you have not burned the stove very hot yet, it may do it again. It seems as though every time you take the stove to a new temperature level more off-gassing (curing) occurs.

BTW - if you do remove the batteries from your smoke detector during the break in fires (which I did), just make sure you remember to put them back in as soon as that evenings fire is done.


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## DriftWood (Oct 16, 2007)

Gunner said:
			
		

> Sorry Driftwood 911 is for an EMERGENCY, not to figure out why you detector is giving nusence alarms when there is obviously no fire. Last year we responded to over 25000 calls, trouble shooting your detector keeps up from being where we might actually be needed.


As soon as I say don't call 911 someones house is going up in flames, we don't want to be responsible for the consequences of that.
 Ill let them decide. To many calls just hire more help.


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## Daniel (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks.....As a matter of fact it was the hottest fire I had in the stove at the time it went off. I will clean the detector and replace the battery and see if that solves the problem. I have had about 8 medium temp. fires so far and think the odors from the break in period are diminishing. I am always amazed at the ability to have every question addressed on this site. Philaphire your stove looked great in the photo gallery and that is a pretty cool two sided setup you have going.


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## davidb (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm also new to the whole wood burning thing bought a avalon olympic. started it the other day burned nice. thought i would try a overnite burn packed the stove up didn't damper all the way down like i thought. about 130am the smoke dector was going off the stove was reading 600 and i was scraed as heck. all i smelled was paint curing. after claming down i pulled the draft all the way closed . the fire died down and the stove colled its self. it just might be paint curing if its new.


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## N/A N/A (Sep 26, 2008)

Its normal guys, no worries. Often times cooking will do the same thing. There may be no visible smoke but the detector will still pick it up. Guess the best and quickest way to explain is the detector can "see" products of smoke that you will not be able to pick up. Continue breaking in your stove and it will stop.


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## OldOwl (Sep 26, 2008)

That happens every time my wife cooks.  LOL!  Well, at least when she uses the oven.  I keep telling her use aluminum foil over or under the food.  Evidently even the smallest amount of splash onto the oven's bottom sets the alarm off two rooms away.  Yet I can burn incense in the adjoining room and it doesn't set it off.  I can only guess it's in the chemical make up of the smoke.  The stuff that sets it off from the oven I can't even tell is in the room.  We just had a large addition put on the house and had to update the entire house with a hard wired system, very temper mental.  The older battery powered units give us no problems.

Solution.

I put a zip lock bag over it if I suspect something may set it off until I'm done doing it.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 26, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> Its normal guys, no worries. Often times cooking will do the same thing. There may be no visible smoke but the detector will still pick it up. Guess the best and quickest way to explain is the detector can "see" products of smoke that you will not be able to pick up. Continue breaking in your stove and it will stop.



Just echoing . . . completely normal. Smoke detector is sensing various particles in the air which are naked to our visible eye (i.e. most likely some oil residue burning off, dust, etc.) but within the smoke detector's detectable range.


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## firefighterjake (Sep 26, 2008)

OldOwl said:
			
		

> That happens every time my wife cooks.  LOL!  Well, at least when she uses the oven.  I keep telling her use aluminum foil over or under the food.  Evidently even the smallest amount of splash onto the oven's bottom sets the alarm off two rooms away.  Yet I can burn incense in the adjoining room and it doesn't set it off.  I can only guess it's in the chemical make up of the smoke.  The stuff that sets it off from the oven I can't even tell is in the room.  We just had a large addition put on the house and had to update the entire house with a hard wired system, very temper mental.  The older battery powered units give us no problems.
> 
> Solution.
> 
> I put a zip lock bag over it if I suspect something may set it off until I'm done doing it.



Long story, short . . . there's basically two different types of smoke detectors and they detect different types of fires with different smoke characteristics (fast, flaming fires vs. slow smoldering fires) which is why some times your detector will go off very easily with little visible smoke vs. sometimes it will not activate for quite a while with visible smoke (although the NFPA states that detectors should eventually activate if the level of smoke reaches X amount.)

The reason cooking in an oven sets off a detector is that the food particles that have been spilled or burned on in the stove often are lifted upwards by the heat from the oven and the detector sounds. Solutions to fix this issue should not include using a zip lock bag (too easy to forget about this and your detectors are really important) . . . 

a) consider moving the detector (I had a problematic detector in my home and moving it a few feet cut down the number of "false" alarms), 

b) consider purchasing a different type of detector (i.e. chances are you have an ionization detector that is alarming, you may want to try replacing it with a photo-electric or a dual ion/photo) or 

c) consider replacing the detector that is always alarming with a model with a hush or silence feature where you can silence the detector for 5 minutes or so by simply pressing the silence button (it will then automatically reset itself so in effect it acts as though you pulled out the battery or put a zip lock bag over it, but you don't have to remember to replace the battery or pull off the bag -- and some of the newer models can even have the hush feature activated by using your TV remote which is handy with high or cathedral ceilings.)


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## M1sterM (Sep 26, 2008)

BTB said:
			
		

> Repost from another topic title for Log-a-rthymn:
> 
> Has anyone every had a smoke detector go off without the presence of smoke? This is my first season burning with an insert and would appreciate any insights.
> 
> ...



Suprised no one else has mentioned this yet, and it's an unlikely culprit, but I thought it was worth mentioning...  most of my smoke detectors are combination smoke and CO.  If your alarm is going off, and you don't smell smoke, it's possible that you have a combination unit and odorless CO is triggering the alarm.  

Just my 2 cents.


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## N/A N/A (Sep 26, 2008)

M1sterM said:
			
		

> BTB said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very good point! should have been mentioned!


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## RedRanger (Sep 29, 2008)

I finally gave up argueing with the wife about this and moved the smoke detector from the kitchen to just around the corner from it.  And amazing, now when you open the oven door the damn thing no longer goes off. ;-P 

It also can be somewhat problematic in our low-ceiling recroom where the insert is located, open to re-load and sometimes it will get triggered,, no smoke just tonnes of heat pouring out of that beast.  I might pull a "coup-de-taaaa" and move that sucker as well. :coolsmile:


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