# Bought new house (1970's)... Chimney/Creosote issues?



## go48 (Jan 8, 2017)

Hi all, new member here!  I recently just purchased an older house (70's) with an old All-Nighter Mid-Moe woodstove in the basement. After a trial run last night, I decided to take a few pictures through the cleanout and up into the flue.  To my surprise, I saw cracked clay tiles and glazed creosote?  Also took a few knocks on the external concrete bricks, and one sounds loose (visible cracks at seams).  Just looking on advice on where to go from here.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

What you have is called a slammer or some variation of. And is no longer code as you can see why. Dumps the smoke into a cold Chimney and you get glazed creosote. I wouldn't burn in it. If you get a flame going in there it's going to take right off. Like it probably has in the past and probably why it's in the state it's in. Code would be to run a insulated liner through it. But some of the guys on here will give you better advise if you should even do that with the state that it's in


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## armanidog (Jan 8, 2017)

I'm new here as well. 
If it were me, I would have a mason come by and let you know if the chimney is sound. If there are loose blocks and loose grout a mason can replace or re-grout the blocks. 
Is the chimney vertical? Or has it settled on one side? That would be fixable but probably expensive. 
It may have some leaks which would let moisture in between the blocks and the flue which can cause cracking when the moisture freezes. 
Once the chimney is determined to be sound and you want to use a wood stove, I would use an insulated stainless steel flue inside the chimney for the wood stove. 
Why was the stove in the basement? In case of power outages?


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

Unless someone has a different definition that is not a slammer install. It is simply a freestanding stove vented into a masonry chimney. A perfectly fine and acceptable type of install.

You've got lots of glazed creosote and cracked tile liners. That chimney is going to need a thorough cleaning, probably chained, and possibly have the tiles busted out if they are saturated, which can easily happen when they are cracked so much.

After the thorough cleaning and possibly removal of clay liners, you will need a SS liner and it will need to be insulated regardless of existing clearances because the clay liners cracked. So the 2" interior chimney/1" exterior is a moot point, the chimney liner is currently compromised.


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

As for the loose exterior brick, might need a mason or sweep experienced with masonry in to determine if it's a structural issue or can just be patched, or may not need to be worried about at all if it's stable and a insulated liner is going in.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

That's why I said some variation of I know typical slammer is just insert in fireplace but you got pipe going into a non insulated clay tile and hence the glazed cresote top to bottom


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

But a freestanding stove vented into a clay lined masonry chimney is not a slammer install at all. And is common and code compliant. The danger of slammer installs with a insert into a masonry fireplace is the inability to clean effectively and creo dropping down onto the top/outside of the unit. 

It's a totally different thing. If this chimney was in good shape, it could be cleaned and used as is as long as all clearances are met and would be code compliant.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

Ahhh got ya. Ok here's a question. What size are clay tiles. As far as fitting a liner.


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

I'm assuming you're asking the OP?  As clay liners come in many, many different sizes. It would need to be measured. 

And unless they can be effectively cleaned of that creosote they are going to need to be busted out regardless. Lining a creo soaked chimney is not to code.


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## go48 (Jan 8, 2017)

I appreciate the feedback guys! I just checked all four sides of the chimney (exposed both in basement and attic) and it is perfectly vertical. Upon going into the attic, I noticed a spot leaking creosote.  This makes me think the tiles are saturated as previously mentioned.  Also, prior to closing I had the seller repair the roof around the chimney, so ignore the water staining.  Measuring through the cleanout, the tiles are 7" x 7" ID with rounded corners.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

Yes I was asking OP. Because after your advice. Your still looking putting a liner in it. And depending size of pipe for that stove and current tile size with liner size maybe will affect how he proceeds


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

That doesn't look promising. 

Also it looks like that piece of particle board or whatever it is is leaned up against the chimney?  I'd move that. 

I would not recommend using the chimney/setup as is. I'd be looking at calling some local shops/sweeps and getting some quotes as to what you can do. Beware of anyone that says they can just jam a uninsulated liner down and call it good.


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## begreen (Jan 8, 2017)

Wouldn't be surprised if that chimney has had a fire or two in its day. It needs a rehab like squisher outlined with a new insulated stainless steel liner. Don't use it as is.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

Squish- this is what I've read in past. (Top left) that lead me to think that. Just figured that was some cobbled variation of what's considered a slammer but what you said makes good sense
https://chimneysweeponline.com/hoosst.htm

OP once you get Chimney measurements and looked at, you will probably have some decisions. Like room  for liners and if it's 8 inch on that stove do you plan on upgrading in the future where new stove might  be 6 inch


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

Yup. Oversized flue is a different type of code violation.  It could play a part here as well but my suspicion from the pics is that the flue isn't grossly oversized for a old smoker like that.  But without measurements, that is a guess at best. 

To the OP if you are re-lining definetly consider what the future looks like for your burning. A newer stove will be vastly superior installed with a proper sized and insulated liner. Most new stoves are six inch, with very few newer stoves being 8"(blaze king king comes to mind).  Also a 6" insulated liner is smaller if space in the chimney is a concern. And lastly 6" is notably less expensive too. 

lots to consider, and lots of expense unfortunately. But I wouldn't mess around running that chimney as is. Begging for much more expensive or worse, deadly issues.


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## go48 (Jan 8, 2017)

mitchell721 said:


> Squish- this is what I've read in past. (Top left) that lead me to think that. Just figured that was some cobbled variation of what's considered a slammer but what you said makes good sense
> https://chimneysweeponline.com/hoosst.htm
> 
> OP once you get Chimney measurements and looked at, you will probably have some decisions. Like room  for liners and if it's 8 inch on that stove do you plan on upgrading in the future where new stove might  be 6 inch


Currently a 6" stovepipe coming off the wood stove dumped into a 7x7" clay liner. Not sure if there are insulated liners that will fit currently, or if i should have the liner removed given the current state of creosote.


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## Supersurvey (Jan 8, 2017)

Curious if a 5.5 inch insulated ss liner would fit in that 7x7 tile?


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

I think not very well, if you add 1.5" roughly for the insulation then you're right tight. Any offset clay liners or mortar gobs would be potentially unpassable.  Seems unlikely to me that it would be wise or acceptable to leave those liners in due to the potential for saturation with creosote. Always curious to hear other thoughts on it too.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

Well squish what's the average thickness of clay tile? Maybe worth hassle of getting them all out to clear space for liner. Not sure how much of pita it would be though


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head?  But yes I imagine in this case busting out tiles is going to kill two birds with one stone. Make room for the insulated liner and get rid of creo saturated clay liner.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

Seems like they are half to 5/8 which is approx 1 to 1 1/4 which should be just about right for insulated 6 inch liner to fit


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

There should be space behind the clay liner too, approximately the same thickness as the liner.


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## Ashful (Jan 8, 2017)

mitchell721 said:


> What you have is called a slammer or some variation of. And is no longer code as you can see why. Dumps the smoke into a cold Chimney and you get glazed creosote. I wouldn't burn in it. If you get a flame going in there it's going to take right off. Like it probably has in the past and probably why it's in the state it's in. Code would be to run a insulated liner through it. But some of the guys on here will give you better advise if you should even do that with the state that it's in


That is not a slammer.  Actually, I don't see anything wrong with the installation, but it's in poor condition now.  This flight is grounded, due to cracked tiles.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 8, 2017)

We've established that


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## bholler (Jan 8, 2017)

Well honestly from the looks of the block  I would have to seriously question if that chimney is a good candidate for relining.  With vertical cracking like that on multiple block I would be worried that the clay tiles are mortared in which makes them very difficult to impossible to remove.  And they absolutely need removed.  Also with cracks that bad  I would be pretty worried about running a breaker in that chimney as well.   It may not be as bad as it looks from the pics but to me it looks pretty questionable as to whether that chimney is worth fixing.


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## Squisher (Jan 8, 2017)

I was hoping you would chime in Bholler. 

I'll point out that Bholler has far more experience than I, so I'd heed those words of caution. 

To the OP if you do get local quotes/opinions. It'd be appreciated if you update the thread with them.


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## go48 (Jan 9, 2017)

Will do!  It sounds like I may end up waiting until spring to gain safe access to the roof since this will not be a small job.  Just for my knowledge, looking through the cleanout, it appears that there is roughly a 0.5 - 1" air gap around the first flue tile to the concrete block (at least the 3 sides I can inspect - left/right/front).  Is this a good sign that the tiles were not mortared in?


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## blades (Jan 9, 2017)

Considering the cost of re building a chimney, including busting out the liner and installing new liner , most likely better off to demo the whole thing right down to the basement floor - 7x7  broken out is going to be very marginal for a 6" insulated liner.  Been down this road about 15 years ago.   part of my  difficulty was the city ordinances saying everything has to look the same as it was ( idiots) so 7 grand later it is a usable flue but really only for non solid fuel applications , had a stove on it (basement) and it was getting just too hot with wood stove ( epa type) 6"  flex liner vermiculite poured around it- not knowing what  kind of clearance around the cement block may or may not be there at the pass through areas or inside the walls  dictated a different approach.  The exterior brick and mortar had deteriorated and was leaking water into basement  which of course also meant that there were problems with clay tile liner as well.  Additionally due to the water seepage at the roof additional repair to the roofing and re shingling a portion in that area was also required.  My furnace and hot water heater vent out the side wall  so at present there is nothing on the assembly. About the only thing it would maybe useful for is a pellet stove as a class B pipe in theory could be run up that 6". 
 If i remember correctly the grey brick that supports the clay flue liner needs a 2" clearance all around to combustibles to be to code for solid fuel items.  at my place I can't say for sure that that exists.


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## armanidog (Jan 9, 2017)

My 6 inch insulated flex liner measured 7 1/4 inches OD. 
Will you be using a wood stove in the living space upstairs? I would not have a wood stove in the basement unless you are staying down there a lot.


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## bholler (Jan 9, 2017)

blades said:


> 7x7 broken out is going to be very marginal for a 6" insulated liner.


not at all with the tiles broken out there is room for  7" insulated so plenty of room for a 6".


blades said:


> If i remember correctly the grey brick that supports the clay flue liner needs a 2" clearance all around to combustibles to be to code for solid fuel items. at my place I can't say for sure that that exists.


that is for an internal chimney external ones need 1" but an insulated liner makes that requirement 0.


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## go48 (Jan 9, 2017)

armanidog said:


> My 6 inch insulated flex liner measured 7 1/4 inches OD.
> Will you be using a wood stove in the living space upstairs? I would not have a wood stove in the basement unless you are staying down there a lot.



The other half of the basement is finished off and the side with the woodstove is a storage / workshop area. This set up works great for me as I can keep the "dirty" wood stove contained to the unfinished side and when it's running, I leave the finished/unfinished door open. The previous owner also had static vents installed in the ceiling above. I have a couple calls and emails in with local chimney sweeps and masons, so we'll see what the experts have to say soon.  If anyone has personal recommendations for the SECT region, please PM me.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 10, 2017)

mitchell721 said:


> What you have is called a slammer or some variation of. ...



As far as freestanding wood burning stoves go, this is a slammer, lol. Yup, Slammed right down on the driveway, lol. It would have slammed down on my toes if I got in the way.


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## mitchell721 (Jan 10, 2017)

Ugh tear in the eye for sure lol[emoji25]


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## go48 (Jan 12, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> As far as freestanding wood burning stoves go, this is a slammer, lol. Yup, Slammed right down on the driveway, lol. It would have slammed down on my toes if I got in the way.
> 
> View attachment 192480


Wow! What the heck caused that? It looks like someone threw a 1/4 stick of dynamite in there! 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 12, 2017)

It fell to the ground, from the loader bucket, when I was moving it.


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## go48 (Dec 12, 2017)

Sorry for leaving you all hanging! It's been almost a year since my original post and I wanted to keep the community updated. As many of you recommended, the original chimney was not worth salvaging... so down it went! In its place I installed DuraVent DuraPlus Triple Wall Stove Pipe to the roof, but kept single wall in the basement for the radiant heat. I never thought in my lifetime I would be demoing a chimney, but the reward has been worth it. My wood stove has been drafting beautifully now. Thank you all for the support!


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