# Welding Newbie.  Mig or stick?



## fishingpol (Mar 24, 2013)

I have never welded in my life.  I have a project that I will be using angle iron about 1/8 thick making legs with bracing to support under 100 lbs.  Height of legs will be about 32" tall or so.  I've done some online reading on mig and stick.  It sounds like mig is the all around welder but for thinner stock, and stick for heavier uses.  I just need to weld the corners and braces for these legs.  I am going to precut the pieces and rent a welder.  The box store has mig only for under $40 for a half day.  I will try the local tool rental places to see if they have a stick.  This is going to be a one time project and I don't need to own a machine.  I am also thinking of just nuts and bolts to work this up.  But really, I want to try welding.

I was looking at the mig welders at TSC and HD and I see knobs for feed rate of the wire.  Is mig for experienced welders?  This project will not need to be pretty.  I'll take any advice or tips.   

I want this to be a DIY project as I may need to add extra pieces as I go.  I am also thinking of making a plywood jig to have the pieces aligned as I go.


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## MasterMech (Mar 24, 2013)

MIG will do just fine, easiest to learn. The wire feed and heat settings are usually on a "cheat sheet" found on the machine somewhere.

I recommend a youtube education so you kinda know what to expect when you light it up.


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## MasterMech (Mar 24, 2013)

2nd video gives some good shots of what you will see thru the helmet.


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## fishingpol (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks for that MM.  The second video was particulary good.  I'll do some reading up and watch a few more videos for Mig.


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## greg13 (Mar 24, 2013)

I think the bottom line is how much do you want to spend? you can do a little more with a MIG if it is properly set up. Aluminum & stainless (to a degree) can be MIG welded. Personally I wouldn't buy a flux core set up, spend the extra and set it up with Argon/CO2 mix.


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## fishingpol (Mar 24, 2013)

greg13 said:


> I think the bottom line is how much do you want to spend? you can do a little more with a MIG if it is properly set up. Aluminum & stainless (to a degree) can be MIG welded. Personally I wouldn't buy a flux core set up, spend the extra and set it up with Argon/CO2 mix.


 
I'm going to just weld mild steel for now.  I met up with my BIL and he has some mig and stick welding experience and starts a new job tomorrow doing trailer repairs with a bit of welding in the mix.  He will help me along.


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## Jags (Mar 25, 2013)

A mig is the caulk gun of welders.  Squeeze trigger - BZZZZZZZZTTTT.


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## fishingpol (Mar 25, 2013)

Jags said:


> A mig is the caulk gun of welders. Squeeze trigger - BZZZZZZZZTTTT.


 

Yes.  Frying bacon.  It turns out my new co-worker welded when he did body work.  He said he can work it up for me.  I am still going to learn.


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## nate379 (Mar 25, 2013)

If it were only that easy.  Actually I can weld decent (20 years experience) but I can't run a bead of caulk to save my life. 



Jags said:


> A mig is the caulk gun of welders. Squeeze trigger - BZZZZZZZZTTTT.


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 25, 2013)

You can borrow my Lincoln Tombstone as long as you like my man. I bought a stick welder for the kiln construction, but it mostly sits there. I have an auto darkening helmet you can borrow as well.


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## Jags (Mar 25, 2013)

nate379 said:


> If it were only that easy. Actually I can weld decent (20 years experience) but I can't run a bead of caulk to save my life.


 
Blue tape - layout your caulk run.  Caulk.  Use finger to smooth.  Remove tape.  Perfection.


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## nate379 (Mar 25, 2013)

Yeah that is what I do, but I've seen guys that can run a nice bead in about 15 secs to what it takes me 10 mins to tape off and mess with!



Jags said:


> Blue tape - layout your caulk run. Caulk. Use finger to smooth. Remove tape. Perfection.


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## Jags (Mar 25, 2013)

nate379 said:


> Yeah that is what I do, but I've seen guys that can run a nice bead in about 15 secs to what it takes me 10 mins to tape off and mess with!


 
I have to use this method or I will be gluing the toilet lid down or something equally as stupid.


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## fishingpol (Mar 25, 2013)

Adios Pantalones said:


> You can borrow my Lincoln Tombstone as long as you like my man. I bought a stick welder for the kiln construction, but it mostly sits there. I have an auto darkening helmet you can borrow as well.


 
Thanks for the offer, that is righteous of you. I will definitely keep this in mind.  I am going to e-mail you a question or two about a show I am going to be set up at in the end of June.  I need to source some small accent pieces (mugs, small vessels) to display/sell with what I will have out.


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## Adios Pantalones (Mar 25, 2013)

Cool. I will finally need some boxes, if you still have the time and material


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## fishingpol (Mar 25, 2013)

I am sure I will be able to make time.  I do need to make a crapload of pieces before June.  The material I had set aside for you I used on current projects.  I may need you to get some material for your boxes though.  The stoneyard at the bottom of my street where I got the pallets is closed for the winter.  I have a nice bandsaw blade that I can re-saw thicker wood down to nice workable slabs.


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## fishingpol (Apr 6, 2013)

Ok, the project is mostly done.  I rented the Lincoln MIG from HD.   Someone please tell me where I went wrong on the welds.  I had visions of nice, cleaner looking ones.  The auto feed was intially set too high and the flux core wire was be-boppin' all over the place.  I squared that away, increased the power output a little higher.  Maybe I did not go high enough or was the weld to slow?  I flap sanded all the joints to bare metal before giving it hell-o.  I found that black iron pipe does not weld that well to a floor flange.  Never mind welding that to the brake drum.  I would assume it was cast iron as most of the reason.  I give credit to anyone who can run a nice weld btw.


Looks like weld puke.








I made a plywood jig with 8 degree cuts to flare the legs out on the sides for stability.




The frame was made from a discarded bed frame angle pieces.  It is very stable, but when I locate some more, I'll add bracing and a shelf.


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## MasterMech (Apr 7, 2013)

Looks like you could use a tad more heat and work on moving the gun in a weave or lowercase "e" type pattern.

Wirebrush & hammer the welds to chip any slag that's stuck on them.


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

A touch more heat and you were holding the handle wrong. It appears that you were pointing it straight at the joint (weld). A mig should be "pushed into" the work.

Edit: I am not a big fan of flux core welding.  If you are gonna use flux, use a stick welder.  Gas shield welding is where the migs really shine.


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## MasterMech (Apr 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> A mig should be "pushed into" the work.


 
For thinner materials, yes.  "Pulling" the puddle will result in better penetration but usually not as "pretty" of a weld.


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

True story:
In a past life, I worked at a company that made the big salt spreaders.  You know, the big suckers that would go on the back of the state trucks...anyhoo...we had a custom built trailer for stacking parts on to make it easy to move around with a fork truck (which is what I was doing at the time).  It needed a couple of repairs.  Since I didn't want to disrupt the line I asked one of the pro welders to come out and stick weld this thing (had a giant old stick in the neighborhood of the trailer).  He was a mig welder and started to weld like bazooka Joe (bubblegum).  I told him to gimme that thing and your helmet.  Laid the two prettiest beads of my life in front of him.  Earned a little respect that day.


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## MasterMech (Apr 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> True story:
> In a past life, I worked at a company that made the big salt spreaders. You know, the big suckers that would go on the back of the state trucks...anyhoo...we had a custom built trailer for stacking parts on to make it easy to move around with a fork truck (which is what I was doing at the time). It needed a couple of repairs. Since I didn't want to disrupt the line I asked one of the pro welders to come out and stick weld this thing (had a giant old stick in the neighborhood of the trailer). He was a mig welder and started to weld like bazooka Joe (bubblegum). I told him to gimme that thing and your helmet. Laid the two prettiest beads of my life in front of him. Earned a little respect that day.


You don't know how many stick or even TIG guys have come to me at work because they just can't get the MIG to work for them.  Blows my mind.  I do not consider myself a "welder" by any means.


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

MasterMech said:


> You don't know how many stick or even TIG guys have come to me at work because they just can't get the MIG to work for them. Blows my mind. I do not consider myself a "welder" by any means.


 
Nope - I just stick things together.  Not a pro by a LOOONG shot.


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## MasterMech (Apr 8, 2013)

And that just about says it all.....


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 8, 2013)

looks like  not enough heat and the nozzle was being pushed too far away from the  puddle,  MIG works  by melting the wire and the steel inside an envelope of inert gas (usually argon or a mix of argon and another inert gas) if the nozzle is too far away from the point of the joint to be welded if the puddle gets outside of the pocket of gas the weld bead becomes loaded with air  bubbles.

as for direction  when the weld is being applied horizontally (flat welding), the puddle is "pushed" by the wire, when welding vertically, the puddle is pulled downhill. an inexperienced welder would likely fare better with flat welding as they wouldnt have to "keep up" with the puddle


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

Mike - this was flux core. I would _guess_ no gas involved.

Your explanation of pushing into the weld was much better than mine.


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> Mike - this was flux core. I would _guess_ no gas involved.
> 
> Your explanation of pushing into the weld was much better than mine.


 

ohh, thought was MIG, havent used flux core before


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

stoveguy2esw said:


> ohh, thought was MIG, havent used flux core before


 
According to the OP - it was a mig running flux core wire.  This is pretty common for some of the small consumer migs and folks that don't want to deal with gas.  All but unheard of with a production mig.  The flux core mimics the flux on the outside of a stick.  It is basically automatic stick welding.


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## fishingpol (Apr 8, 2013)

Yes, flux core, no gas.  I had no puddle to speak of as the video showed.  The tip was pointed right at the work too.  I could have put it up one notch higher probably.  It was a bit more blobby when I was laying the weld down.  I had to go back and fill in the spaces where it did not take.


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## Jags (Apr 8, 2013)

Sounds like you simply were not laying down enough material.  More heat and more wire.


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## fishingpol (Apr 8, 2013)

Jags said:


> Sounds like you simply were not laying down enough material. More heat and more wire.


 
Agreed.  Thanks all.


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## oldspark (Apr 9, 2013)

Practice practice practice, the only way to get better, trying to do a project with out the practice can be frustrating.


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## Ashful (Apr 9, 2013)

Re: "nozzle too far from material"

The same could be the result from trying to MIG outdoors in a breeze.  This is the one condition in which flux core wire may be preferable to MIG.


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## fishingpol (Apr 9, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Practice practice practice, the only way to get better, trying to do a project with out the practice can be frustrating.


 
More practice=more projects.


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## oldspark (Apr 9, 2013)

fishingpol said:


> More practice=more projects.


 Get some scrap steel and start sticking stuff together, might turn into art.


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 10, 2013)

Joful said:


> Re: "nozzle too far from material"
> 
> The same could be the result from trying to MIG outdoors in a breeze. This is the one condition in which flux core wire may be preferable to MIG.


 


good point, i dont weld outside, at least i haven't had to  up to this point, but i have had fans running which does blow the gas off the puddle and that does cause porosity the same way. of course i don't weld flux core either have a gas setup.


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## Ashful (Apr 10, 2013)

I have a full MIG (Hobart Handler 185), but since my shop is primarily a wood shop, almost all of my welding is done outdoors in the driveway. So, I do often run flux-core wire in it. Having grown up with a stick welder (Lincoln AC225), I don't find the small bit of spatter from the flux core to be a very big deal. Usually cleans up in about 0.5 seconds with a 3" sanding disc on the pneumatic angle die grinder.


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## fishingpol (Apr 10, 2013)

oldspark said:


> Get some scrap steel and start sticking stuff together, might turn into art.


 
I welded the base up to hold the forge that will be used to make art.  So indirectly, yes.


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## stoveguy2esw (Apr 10, 2013)

Joful said:


> I have a full MIG (Hobart Handler 185), but since my shop is primarily a wood shop, almost all of my welding is done outdoors in the driveway. So, I do often run flux-core wire in it. Having grown up with a stick welder (Lincoln AC225), I don't find the small bit of spatter from the flux core to be a very big deal. Usually cleans up in about 0.5 seconds with a 3" sanding disc on the pneumatic angle die grinder.


 
spatter isn't the problem , with wind you can have air contamination which makes the weld porous thus compromising it. heck flux core may prevent that i dunno haven't used it. i have a miller 250 MIG and run a tank (mixed gas) never messed with flux core as ive never had a need to. i get why  its better for you , wouldn't want to weld in a woodshop


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## Ashful (Apr 10, 2013)

It would be interesting to hear from someone who's really tried both for comparison, in an outdoor environment.  I've done plenty of MIG indoors with gas, but knowing I'd be using my rig almost exclusively outdoors, I switched it over to flux core shortly after buying it.  I was always told that's the way to go, if welding outdoors, but can't say I've done a whole lot of testing on that myself.


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## festerw (Apr 11, 2013)

I've done both outdoors with my Hobart 140 and unless it's really windy I've not had any issues using gas.


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## nate379 (Apr 11, 2013)

I usually weld uphill on a verticle. Might be right, might be wrong, dunno. Works for me. Learned how to weld when I was about 12 years old on my Dad's buzzbox Lincoln. Have only had one weld fail in close to 20 years. Small thick piece of metal that was in a high stress area. Didn't get enough heat into it.

Not saying that the toot my horn, but I don't really care what a book or "pro" says... the goal is to make it stick together and if your doing that, well... carry on!


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## oldspark (Apr 11, 2013)

nate, you got right, uphill on vertical gives deeper penetration (a good thing) while welding down hill works for thinner stuff.


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