# Fire Danger - The Dark side of the modern synthetic world



## jharkin (Oct 11, 2015)

This came up on my old house owners web board. Those of us living in those "creaky old drafty houses"  - especially ones furnished with antiques and all traditional fabrics/materials - are a lot more likely to survive a house fire.



http://newscience.ul.com/articles/modern-residential-fires


Turns out that everything touted as 'good' in modern construction - open floor plans, engineered lumber, double pane windows, vinyl siding, windows, doors, plastics, no maintenance materials are all combining to cause house fires to spread nearly 8x faster than traditional materials and methods. Sometimes spreading faster than the fire department can get to you.


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2015)

Plastics! That's the future my son.


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## Swedishchef (Oct 11, 2015)

Wow. Impressive!

I guess trying to make better profit margins has it's consequences after all eh? And this is one consequence I would not think of....

Nice vid

Andrew


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## DougA (Oct 11, 2015)

Modern = more flammable + more disposable + more profitable


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2015)

DougA said:


> Modern = more flammable + more disposable + more profitable


 Not always, sometimes modern means more efficient and better designed. Modern stoves being an example, cell phones another. I really like my modern car. It's much more efficient, way lower maintenance, much cleaner emissions, safer, more economical too as well as more fun to drive.


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## Swedishchef (Oct 11, 2015)

I got to agree with Doug on this one BG. I think it's more a rule of thumb. For example, ovens now have motherboards. My friend's oven's MOBO when on the blink. $450 to replace it. My dishwasher pump seal started leaking:`it's a whole unit (can't replace parts) and it's $343 + install fee. New front loading washers/dryers: disposable. Ya get the drift. Who fixes TVs anymore? 

A


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## bholler (Oct 11, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> Who fixes TVs anymore?


2 different repair shops by us fix them all the time.  If you shop for it there are still plenty of products made that are serviceable.   New homes i am sure are worse in some ways in a fire but old homes are worse in others and many times have more potential fire risk due to lack of codes when they were built.  I am not saying new is better in all cases but it is in some for sure.  And old is better in others


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## Swedishchef (Oct 11, 2015)

You're lucky where you live..I had to travel 450 KMs to bring my $300 samsung TV to get it fixed: it wasn't working out of the box. lol.

I understand where you're coming from. But , from my what I observe and take note of, we toss alot more stuff today than we did back in the day. INcluding husbands and wives 

Andrew


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2015)

I hear ya, but the original post is that modern = more dangerous. I don't think that is always the case. Cars and stoves are examples. No doubt that there's a disposable mindset, but that doesn't mean the product was designed to be disposable. FWIW, a while back we had a new TV fail on warranty. Took it into a repair place and they had it fixed a few days later. Yeah, the repair shop was about 20 miles away, but I was happy with the fix.


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## jharkin (Oct 11, 2015)

begreen said:


> Not always, sometimes modern means more efficient and better designed. Modern stoves being an example, cell phones another. I really like my modern car. It's much more efficient, way lower maintenance, much cleaner emissions, safer, more economical too as well as more fun to drive.
> View attachment 163551



Cell phones are certainly disposable... The new trend of non-user replaceable batteries guarantees obsolescence every 12-18 months.

The amount of toxic wast all those thrown out electronics generates prompted environmental rules like RoHS to remove all te toxic stuff, which in turn reduces livespans even more.  Its a vicious circle.

Im not being a luddite and not eschewing all things modern. I would not want to commute in the first car I learned on 25 years ago... But I watch the video above and get a smile when I look at these old timer framed walls, the wool rug on the floor and the real cotton upholstery on grandmas hand me down couch and its nice to thin they are less likely to kill us that the modern synthetic garbage at Ikea.And that the real glass "glass" Im drinking out of is less likely to give me cancer than the BPA laden plastics that where all the rage up until a few years ago.


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## begreen (Oct 11, 2015)

No doubt with electronics the industry is guilty of creating a real mess. Still my cellphone is 2.5 yrs old. Is it going to self destruct? Battery life is still ok.

We live in an old house and have avoided using plastics and vinyl for siding and windows, but I have used MDF for some trim. Does MDF burn faster than real wood?


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## BrotherBart (Oct 11, 2015)

Guess we don't talk about my 2005 cell phone... Took the box out last year and replaced the black fascia with the silver one and told my wife we got a new phone.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 12, 2015)

One word: plastics.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 12, 2015)

As mentioned it is not always a matter of older being better . . . even in a home. Add in a modern residential PVC sprinkler system for example and you would see a whole new video.


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## jharkin (Oct 12, 2015)

But how many homes have a residential sprinkler system? Seems like a band aid solution to me, and one that wont help the millions of existing houses out there full of plastic without such systems.



I guess we will have to all agree to disagree on this.  I just dont buy the modern is always better viewpoint. Call me a luddite


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## velvetfoot (Oct 12, 2015)

There was a firebug in my old neighborhood years ago.  Lit up my car in the driveway and the neighbor's truck.  It's amazing how well the car interior burned.  The exterior paint was mostly gone, as I recall, and quite oxidized from the heat.  For some reason, the burning car rolled forward and stopped against the garage door.  Luckily, the garage door was steel, as opposed to the fiberglass doors then in vogue, or even perhaps an old fashioned wood door.


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## Jags (Oct 12, 2015)

jharkin said:


> real cotton upholstery on grandmas hand me down couch



Ever see a newer style couch burn?  The amount of smoke it creates is crazy.  That happening inside of a home is a disaster.  Its been a long time ago, but I have been inside of homes (practice fires) when visibility was virtually zero even though a raging fire was 20 feet away.


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## bholler (Oct 12, 2015)

jharkin said:


> But how many homes have a residential sprinkler system?


It was code in pa for about 6 months till contractors who couldn't understand the systems threw a fit and lobbied to have the code removed.   I think it was a great idea but oh well.  I dont think old or new is better each has their strong points


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2015)

Yes, that was my point. There are good and bad things about old and new. I for one think that indoor plumbing and toilet paper are marvelous improvements, even if TP is flammable.


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## jharkin (Oct 12, 2015)

Yes, and like I said I dont think all modern things are bad (somebody up thread thought that was my point - it is not).  I think this specific example shows that sometimes we take the cheap/disposable/no maintenance thing to far.

Modern efficiency standards are good. Modern woodstoves are good. Very reliable modern cars are good.  HD television and high speed internet is good. The plastic gas tank in my truck that will never rust and leak is good.

BUt there are things I dont like - synthetic materials for furnishings and clothes.  Vinyl siding/windows.  Water based paint with only a fraction of the durability of hte old oil formulas making me paint the house every 5 years instead of every 30. Engineered lumber and particle board sheathing that wont last a fraction of the lifespan of traditional materials. lawnmower engines with so much plastic in them (I mean they even make plastic timing gears in the engines now for #$(&*#$*( ) they fall apart in 5 years. "High end" appliances that fall apart in just a couple years because all the computers burn out.  People destroying antique furniture with chalk paint (grrrrr). and so on.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 12, 2015)

jharkin said:


> making me paint the house every 5 years instead of every 30


That's a good reason for vinyl siding, which I like.
A slogan related to polypro undergarments is "cotton kills".


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## Isaac Carlson (Oct 12, 2015)

vinyl siding is a horrible industry and a terrible product.  I used to install it.  It may look "nice" if you like a house that looks like tupperware, but what happens when it burns or gets removed, then what?  nobody recycles it because it gets brittle and faded.  We just filled a dumpster with it last year and we hated to do it, but what else do you do?  I like a wod house with wood shingles and no drywall, no plastic.  My great grandfather build the farm house from local trees and it is still as solid as the year he built it.  Lets see modern houses last 200 years.  I prefer vehicles from the 80's and 90's, because they had some of the newer technology, but were still simple, easy, and inexpensive to repair when they did eventually need it.  I like my 1991 f250 over the newer trucks.


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## begreen (Oct 12, 2015)

Yes, I don't like plastic and synthetic food either. The closer it is to our local garden the better.


jharkin said:


> making me paint the house every 5 years instead of every 30





velvetfoot said:


> That's a good reason for vinyl siding, which I like.
> A slogan related to polypro undergarments is "cotton kills".



Some paints are good. Our house was painted 10 years ago with Benjamin Moore paint and it is standing up well so far.


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## bholler (Oct 12, 2015)

Isaac Carlson said:


> My great grandfather build the farm house from local trees and it is still as solid as the year he built it. Lets see modern houses last 200 years.


There will be plenty of houses built now that will last 200 years if they are maintained properly and there were many houses built 200 years ago that failed for many reasons.  I live in a 100 yr old wood sided house and i love it but it takes allot more work that a modern house.  And if you are painting every 5 years you need to do better prep or buy better paint i am going on 9 years on my last paint job and it is just starting to need some touch up in spots.


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## bholler (Oct 12, 2015)

And as far as fire danger goes my house is balloon framed like many in this area.  And if a balloon framed house catches fire look out they go up really quick


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## Isaac Carlson (Oct 12, 2015)

A properly built balloon frame should last just as long as the alternative assuming fire stops are in place.  Leaving fire stops out will turn the place into a chimney.


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## bholler (Oct 12, 2015)

Isaac Carlson said:


> A properly built balloon frame should last just as long as the alternative assuming fire stops are in place. Leaving fire stops out will turn the place into a chimney.


Yes we know that now but when the origonal ballon framed houses like mine where built they did not know that.  So no they have no fire stops.  See modern stuff like fire stops are not all bad


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

begreen said:


> Yes, I don't like plastic and synthetic food either. The closer it is to our local garden the better.
> 
> 
> 
> Some paints are good. Our house was painted 10 years ago with Benjamin Moore paint and it is standing up well so far.




My house IS painted with Benjamin Moore..  Must be the previous owner did not prep well.  Even so, my point is that as bad as it was for our health the old linseed oil and white lead based paints of years ago lasted not 10 or 20, but 30-40-50 years.

Ask any professional painter that's been in the biz more than 20 years or any professional window restorer or old house preservationst - modern paints are less durable than the old oil stuff was. The improvements in Latex are cathing up and now that I have switched to Aura my paint jobs are starting to last but its still not quire there.  Im just frustrated as the old MooreGlo & stain job by the previous owners is chipping  and if I want a new job that lasts Im going to have to strip the whole house to the wood to re-prime with slow dry alkyd primer and a high end exterior paint like Aura.  (Some of the restoration pros Ive talked to dont even like BM/SW and push boutique brands like California, Muralo, Farrow& Ball - those are out of my league).

I certainly understand why we need to make these changes for health reasons but it makes maintenance a pain.


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

bholler said:


> Yes we know that now but when the origonal ballon framed houses like mine where built they did not know that.  So no they have no fire stops.  See modern stuff like fire stops are not all bad



You guys are confusing balloon framing and platform framing.  In  real baloon framing there where no fire stops originally because the studs ran from the sill to the top plate continuously.  On a two story house that meant studs up to 20ft long or more.  It also meant that in addition to lacking fire stops the floor is only supported by joists nailed to the studs.  Also building a house that way took complicated scaffolding, etc.  real balloon framing was used from its development in the 1830s up until 1920 or so. You will find it in Victorian era houses, craftsman's, 4 squares etc.  You wont find it in anything WWI vintage or later.

What you are thinking of is modern *platform *framing. (Used exclusively from about 1930 on) Build the house one level at a time and construct the second story walls on top of the top plate of the first floor.  This gives you automatic fire stopping and a much more secure support for the upper story floors. And no scaffolds required.


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

bholler said:


> There will be plenty of houses built now that will last 200 years if they are maintained properly and there were many houses built 200 years ago that failed for many reasons.  I live in a 100 yr old wood sided house and i love it but it takes allot more work that a modern house.  And if you are painting every 5 years you need to do better prep or buy better paint i am going on 9 years on my last paint job and it is just starting to need some touch up in spots.



Again , have to agree to disagree.  I don't see OSB sheathing and vinyl siding lasting 50 years, much less 200.  Same thing with windows... I have hundred year old wood windows that once I reglazed them and painted them look like new.  Ive seen 200 year old windows that can still be refinished.  No double pane vinyl window made today will last that long... even the wooden ones are made of new growth wood that just isn't as durable. Or the seals will fail, or the hardware will break and they just will not be reparable.

I think you can build new that lasts - but its prohibitively expensive for a lot of folks.


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

So we are waaaaay off topic here.  Back to the original video.  The question stands - does it bother anybody that synthetic materials makes our homes a death trap in fire?  I thought that all this stuff was supposed to be infused with fire retadants?

Thoughts on that?


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## Ashful (Oct 13, 2015)

Swedishchef said:


> You're lucky where you live..I had to travel 450 KMs to bring my $300 samsung TV to get it fixed: it wasn't working out of the box. lol.
> 
> I understand where you're coming from. But , from my what I observe and take note of, we toss alot more stuff today than we did back in the day. INcluding husbands and wives
> 
> Andrew


As an electrical engineer who designs product, I can tell you that if the TV were made to be serviceable, you'd be paying much more than $300 for it.  Between the cost of trained diagnostic and repair technicians, and the inherent cost of making a design more serviceable, complex electronics typically cannot be serviced for the cost of manufacture.


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## Ashful (Oct 13, 2015)

begreen said:


> I hear ya, but the original post is that modern = more dangerous.


OP was that modern materials in our homes burn at higher temperatures and faster than traditional materials.  This is true.  It had nothing to do with cars or cell phones!


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## Ashful (Oct 13, 2015)

jharkin said:


> So we are waaaaay off topic here.  Back to the original video.  The question stands - does it bother anybody that synthetic materials makes our homes a death trap in fire?  I thought that all this stuff was supposed to be infused with fire retadants?
> 
> Thoughts on that?


I've seen some old framed houses go up pretty spectacularly, particular Victorian-era balloon framed structures.  I've also seen demonstrations of 1960s / 1970s couches go up at enormously high temperatures, thanks to polyester and foam.  I'd guess we're safer today than 40 years ago.  As to whether safer today than 150 years ago, before synthetics?  Probably depends on the exact situation.  I think you're much less likely to have a fire today, than in the days prior to synthetics, which is a factor worth considering.


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## sportbikerider78 (Oct 13, 2015)

Isaac Carlson said:


> vinyl siding is a horrible industry and a terrible product.  I used to install it.  It may look "nice" if you like a house that looks like tupperware, but what happens when it burns or gets removed, then what?  nobody recycles it because it gets brittle and faded.  We just filled a dumpster with it last year and we hated to do it, but what else do you do?  I like a wod house with wood shingles and no drywall, no plastic.  My great grandfather build the farm house from local trees and it is still as solid as the year he built it.  Lets see modern houses last 200 years.  I prefer vehicles from the 80's and 90's, because they had some of the newer technology, but were still simple, easy, and inexpensive to repair when they did eventually need it.  I like my 1991 f250 over the newer trucks.



Codes are the issue here, not the solution. 

It is laughable that we are forced to build a home of sticks and mud and then put a tar and stone roof on it.  Totally ridiculous. 

Lack of technology in building because of regulation is the issue.  Plastic is NOT high technology guys.  Plastic has been around forever.


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

Ashful said:


> I've seen some old framed houses go up pretty spectacularly, particular Victorian-era balloon framed structures.  I've also seen demonstrations of 1960s / 1970s couches go up at enormously high temperatures, thanks to polyester and foam.  I'd guess we're safer today than 40 years ago.  As to whether safer today than 150 years ago, before synthetics?  Probably depends on the exact situation.  I think you're much less likely to have a fire today, than in the days prior to synthetics, which is a factor worth considering.



Yeah, you make a good point there.. I guess the risk of starting a house fire is a lot lower today...  Certainly in the 1700s with lots of fireplaces, dirty chimneys and wooden shake roofs that danger was there.  

And yep on the baloon framing chimney issue.  I guess yo could say you where safer before (timer) or after (platform) the balloon era.


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2015)

This is interesting. Whatever we are doing it appears to be working. Source: NFPA
http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...l-fire-problem/fire-loss-in-the-united-states





_"The total number of fires continues to be on a downward trend, as does the number of outside fires, structure fires and vehicle fires. In Figure 2, the number of fires per thousand population, the frequency of fire incident is much higher in communities with less than 5,000 population."_


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> Codes are the issue here, not the solution.
> 
> It is laughable that we are forced to build a home of sticks and mud and then put a tar and stone roof on it.  Totally ridiculous.
> 
> Lack of technology in building because of regulation is the issue.  Plastic is NOT high technology guys.  Plastic has been around forever.


Fire codes are very likely a part of what explains the decline in structural fires and loss of life since the 1970s. A few generations of plastic is not forever. Vinyl siding didn't show up until the 60s and plastic trim in the 1990s I think.


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## sportbikerider78 (Oct 13, 2015)

I mean building codes.  
You can't build any structure you like, no matter how safe, if it is not to code.


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2015)

True true. I don't think you could build an uninsulated cement block house any more, not that I would want to live in one.


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## sportbikerider78 (Oct 13, 2015)

I love the way Europeans build homes.  Insulated block with massive walls.  Small wood stove to heat a huge home, because of the insulation.  Lots of hardwood features.  Tile roof.  Sure they are expensive, but man, do they last.


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## bholler (Oct 13, 2015)

jharkin said:


> You guys are confusing balloon framing and platform framing. In real baloon framing there where no fire stops originally because the studs ran from the sill to the top plate continuously. On a two story house that meant studs up to 20ft long or more. It also meant that in addition to lacking fire stops the floor is only supported by joists nailed to the studs. Also building a house that way took complicated scaffolding, etc. real balloon framing was used from its development in the 1830s up until 1920 or so. You will find it in Victorian era houses, craftsman's, 4 squares etc. You wont find it in anything WWI vintage or later.


no i know exactly what balloon framing is i live in a balloon framed house.  No firestops at all but it is filled with blown in cellulose which is a good firestop so i am fine on the exterior walls but not the interior structural walls


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## begreen (Oct 13, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> I love the way Europeans build homes.  Insulated block with massive walls.  Small wood stove to heat a huge home, because of the insulation.  Lots of hardwood features.  Tile roof.  Sure they are expensive, but man, do they last.


That's possible to do in our county. It does make for a solid, well insulated home.


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## bholler (Oct 13, 2015)

jharkin said:


> Again , have to agree to disagree. I don't see OSB sheathing and vinyl siding lasting 50 years, much less 200. Same thing with windows... I have hundred year old wood windows that once I reglazed them and painted them look like new. Ive seen 200 year old windows that can still be refinished. No double pane vinyl window made today will last that long... even the wooden ones are made of new growth wood that just isn't as durable. Or the seals will fail, or the hardware will break and they just will not be reparable.
> I think you can build new that lasts - but its prohibitively expensive for a lot of folks.


I never said that everything on the house would last yes it will need resided periodically at that time some sheathing will probably need replaced.  But old houses need painted repaired ect.  And i agree that most new windows wont last but there are still some very good ones made.  The fact is every house if you want it to last will need maintenance.  The maintenance=nce is different old houses take allot of smaller stuff more often and modern ones will need big stuff less often but it is a trade off


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## Ashful (Oct 13, 2015)

sportbikerider78 said:


> I love the way Europeans build homes.  Insulated block with massive walls.  Small wood stove to heat a huge home, because of the insulation.  Lots of hardwood features.  Tile roof.  Sure they are expensive, but man, do they last.


Not sure how much time you spend in Europe, but as someone who does (just got back two weeks ago, actually), I can say your assumptions of how they build today are a little old.  I've been in more than one new OSB on stick frame house in Germany, all built since 2000.  If you go back 20 years, then your statement is correct, but they're following right in our footsteps today.


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## jharkin (Oct 13, 2015)

bholler said:


> I never said that everything on the house would last yes it will need resided periodically at that time some sheathing will probably need replaced.  But old houses need painted repaired ect.  And i agree that most new windows wont last but there are still some very good ones made.  The fact is every house if you want it to last will need maintenance.  The maintenance=nce is different old houses take allot of smaller stuff more often and modern ones will need big stuff less often but it is a trade off



That in my mind is the essential difference in mindset between old and new way of doing things.

The old house gets maintained... 
- When the siding looks bad you repaint it  
- When the windows get drafty you re-glaze them
- When the floor gets scratched up you refinish it 
and so on.  Its a lot of work but its still the same house maintaining the original character.  

The new house gets replaced...
- When the siding looks bad you tear it off and put new siding on
- when the windows get drafty you rip them out and put new ones in
- When the floor gets scratched up you rip it up and lay down new floor.

Sure you can keep the structure going indefinitely but can we really say he house lasted as long when its mostly new parts?


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## bholler (Oct 13, 2015)

jharkin said:


> That in my mind is the essential difference in mindset between old and new way of doing things.
> The old house gets maintained...
> - When the siding looks bad you repaint it
> - When the windows get drafty you re-glaze them
> ...


Well i agree to some extent but you are also a little jaded you can paint vinyl or aluminum siding and extend its life quite a bit.  You can re gasket good new windows.  There are still allot of wood floors being put in that can be refinished.  And the biggest difference is with vinyl or aluminum you will get 30 to 40 years with no maintenance other than cleaning with a good paint job you might get 10 years.  I agree most new windows are crap but there are still very good ones made that will last a long time and have serviceable parts.  As far as flooring goes there is good flooring and crap flooring just like there always has been.  I would like to add that there were crappy houses built a long time ago that are long gone just like the crappy new ones will be.  Build with quality products and maintain them and it will last.


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## Dix (Oct 13, 2015)




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## Ashful (Oct 14, 2015)

bholler said:


> I would like to add that there were crappy houses built a long time ago that are long gone just like the crappy new ones will be.


Very well stated, and true, but which burn faster?


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## firefighterjake (Oct 14, 2015)

begreen said:


> This is interesting. Whatever we are doing it appears to be working. Source: NFPA
> http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...l-fire-problem/fire-loss-in-the-united-states
> 
> View attachment 163689
> ...



Yeah . . . it's me . . . doing the fire safety education thing. 

Actually, pretty sure it is a combination of building/fire safety codes, better fire safety education/awareness and a change in tech -- whether it be home sprinklers, smoke detectors, GFCIs, space heaters that shut off when they tip over, etc.


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## bholler (Oct 14, 2015)

Ashful said:


> Very well stated, and true, but which burn faster?


Depends on how each one was built.  But my guess would be the old one just because of the lack of fire codes many older homes don't have proper firestops ect.  But really there are to many variables.


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## jeff_t (Oct 15, 2015)

From a firefighting standpoint, I'd rather be working in a 150 year old ballon framed house built with rough sawn local lumber than a modern house built with these.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 15, 2015)

There is a reason why many cities and towns have a Truss Beam/Chord Ordinance in place . . .

Here in Bangor new construction (industrial -- not residential -- we pretty much assume almost all residential uses truss beams/chords) are required to put a placard on the outside of their building to indicate that trusses were used . . . reason being that once a few fail the entire roof or floor can suddenly and unexpectedly collapse. Lots of videos on line showing just how fast compared to traditional stick built methods . . .

Also, worth noting . . . I've done inspecting in various businesses downtown and it's always interesting to me when I find charred beams and stringers in the basements or attic . . . signs of a significant fire and yet, perhaps due to the thicker wood, the building was able to be saved and rebuilt.


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## Ashful (Oct 15, 2015)

My carriage barn had a fire at one point in it's past.  Fortunately, 6" x 8" white oak timber posts can take some serious punishment, without penalty.


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## bholler (Oct 15, 2015)

jeff_t said:


> From a firefighting standpoint, I'd rather be working in a 150 year old ballon framed house built with rough sawn local lumber than a modern house built with these.


Agreed but not all new homes are built with them by any means.  And balloon framed home are scary to see when they burn it is amazing how fast they burn. But i totally agree those beams and trusses are absolutely a problem in a fire


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## begreen (Oct 18, 2015)

We're just not far enough into the future here, though China is with 3D printed houses. They are almost incombustible and quite affordable too.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/27/are-3d-printed-houses-the-future/
http://mashable.com/2014/04/28/3d-printing-houses-china/#fQs.nkSJ1iqz


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## Ashful (Oct 18, 2015)

I think Jeremy was looking for just one more reason, why we adore old houses... as if one were needed.


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## mass_burner (Oct 19, 2015)

There is always a tendency to cherry pick examples from the past. What about all the houses built 200 yrs ago that fell down 150 yrs ago. 

I can't watch the video yet, but do they define old? I prefer natural materials, wood, stone, glass, etc. But there is a place for the modern: azek, engineered beam, lead free paint, grounded electrical systems, firewalls, etc.


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## Lake Girl (Oct 19, 2015)

firefighterjake said:


> One word: plastics.


per Hubby the fire fighter - "Synthetics are like adding diesel fuel to the fire".  He just completed a fire investigation ... siding was darkened but intact as it was cement board style but the fire progression was interesting.  Board insulation under the siding poofed but the wood furring strips for the siding slowed/kept it contained so it travelled upward more than outward.

He's not a fan of engineered trusses - recent fire at home that one would anticipate legacy construction was not so.   Really glad no one tried entry (too involved on arrival) as old/new portions of structure created huge hazard potential.  House was added on to (part basement/part crawl space) and used engineered floor joists without rim joist.

http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublicat...august-2009/features/lightweight-construction


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## AmbDrvr253 (Nov 21, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> per Hubby the fire fighter - "Synthetics are like adding diesel fuel to the fire".  He just completed a fire investigation ... siding was darkened but intact as it was cement board style but the fire progression was interesting.  Board insulation under the siding poofed but the wood furring strips for the siding slowed/kept it contained so it travelled upward more than outward.
> 
> He's not a fan of engineered trusses - recent fire at home that one would anticipate legacy construction was not so.   Really glad no one tried entry (too involved on arrival) as old/new portions of structure created huge hazard potential.  House was added on to (part basement/part crawl space) and used engineered floor joists without rim joist.
> 
> http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublicat...august-2009/features/lightweight-construction


 
We refer to the "modern" furnishings a solid gasoline. Measured in BTU's they contain much more than the legacy stuff made from natural products.


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