# Furnace Recommendation



## Boilers (Mar 19, 2018)

I have been looking at furnaces to heat my house (1600 SF main floor + full walkout basement). It was built in 2002 and seems to be well insulated. A portion of the basement is a garage where Id like to put the furnace. This garage has a single insulated garage door, a normal walkout door to the outside, and a normal door to the rest of the basement. It would be really easy to install the furnace and do the day to day tasks like unloading of wood, etc with the furnace located in this area. I plan to use this area primarily as a workshop. Im thinking the garage portion (~300 SF) would be heated from radiant heat alone. I could always install some duct to this area if the radiant heat wasnt enough.  I would rely on the wood furnace to heat the main floor primarily and just keep the rest of the basement bearable. Also I should add that I live about right in the middle of Indiana. Our weather typically doesnt stay super cold for very long.. we may see a low of -10 degrees for a few days or a week. I really just hate getting surprised with a 4 or $500 electric bill. January is our coldest month and the average low temp for the month is 19 degrees. 

Questions:

1. Does anyone see any holes or issues with my plan? If its cold out and I open the garage door for a few minutes, will this cause any issues with the furnace? I have a normal 2 car garage that I will use daily for vehicles, so I dont expect I will need to open and close the basement garage door much, especially in the winter. 

2. Which furnace model should I be looking at? I'd like something under $2k, able to heat the whole house by itself during average winter conditions, and relatively efficient. I have looked at the Shelter SF1000 (also known as a Fire Chief FC1000). I know one forum member has had persistent flash back issues, but I havent heard of anyone else having problems. I have also considered the Tundra II/Heatmax II, but theyre more expensive and seem to have a long history of issues among many members, though I havent heard much about the newer versions. Caddy and Kuuma are too expensive. It would take many years to recoup the $$ spent on one of these, considering I dont live in a frigid climate. If I dont go with one of these low-mid priced EPA stoves, I will likely go with an older stove and use it primarily in the coldest of months. 

Disclaimer, I like to tinker with things to some extent. I am a controls engineer, and like many of you, I'm sure I will modify some things at some point. A PLC with several temp probes and ability to turn on/off the blowers, forced air fan, maybe a VFD... data logging capabilities... audible temp alarms... this is going to be fun. I will try not to burn the house down.


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## Mojappa (Mar 19, 2018)

brand new to the forum so I don't have much useful advice at the moment but from reading through the 12 page thread here about the Fire Chief I would stay well away from that one or it's twin, the Shelter, until those issues are resolved. I just upgraded from a Fisher Papa Bear to a Drolet Heatpack furnace but haven't gotten it hooked up. There is a huge Tundra/Heatmax thread here and it seems from reading through that one that the majority of the issues were in early models. that said, there's still plenty of room for tinkering and adding gadgets to make it work better.

The downside to having just a stove in the basement is that they are technically space heaters so getting the heat to the rest of the house after the basement absorbs it's portion is a very frustrating battle (ask me how I know). Granted, house layout/build quality will help or hinder you a bit here too.


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## maple1 (Mar 19, 2018)

First thing is check with your insurance person about putting a wood burner in the same place as you keep vehicles.

ETA: Re-reading, that might not be what you said. If you won't be doing anything typical 'garage like' down there, sounds like a plan to me.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 19, 2018)

Welcome @Boilers ! 
If this is a basement workshop, and it sounds like it is, you shouldn't have a problem with the ins co, but you better check with them to see if they are wood stove friendly or not...some are not so at least you won't have a rude surprise if you call them after the fact and they wanna dump you. If they have a problem with it, dump them, there are plenty of ins companys out there that don't mind properly installed wood fired heaters. Just make sure you don't call it a garage...always refer to it as a basement (best) or workshop (second best) install...call it a garage and things will come to a screeching halt most likely.


Boilers said:


> Which furnace model should I be looking at? I'd like something under $2k, able to heat the whole house by itself during average winter conditions, and relatively efficient. I have looked at the Shelter SF1000 (also known as a Fire Chief FC1000). I know one forum member has had persistent flash back issues, but I havent heard of anyone else having problems. I have also considered the Tundra II/Heatmax II, but theyre more expensive and seem to have a long history of issues among many members, though I havent heard much about the newer versions


Yeah, forget about that FC/Shelter furnace...inherent design flaws!
The original Tundra was the one with the issues...although I think most of the newer ones were OK for the most part. Never did fix the crack in mine...works fine as is...I know there are a few of us running cracked ones with no issues. Its not like running with a cracked heat exchanger on a gas furnace...the firebox is always under negative pressure...and the crack closes up when firing anyways...opens when cold.
If you are a controls engineer, you'd have a blast with a Tundra...I have. It made a HUGE difference in how it worked for me. It went from "I'm gonna tear this thing out" to "man, this thing works pretty good now" just with a timer, a temp controller, and a speed controller...and I only have about $40 in all this. (although I think prices are up a bit since then)
I have not heard of any real issues with the Tundra II...but I'm sure they could be modded with some cool controls anyways, may not be quite as easy as with the Tundra 1...IDK.


Mojappa said:


> I just upgraded from a Fisher Papa Bear to a Drolet Heatpack furnace but haven't gotten it hooked up


Let us know here how this works out for you, we don't hear from too many people with the Heatpack...it would be nice to see how well one of these works!


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## Mojappa (Mar 19, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Let us know here how this works out for you, we don't hear from too many people with the Heatpack...it would be nice to see how well one of these works!



will do. And just to forewarn, I'm sure when I get closer to the install my presence in the Tundra thread will significantly increase. I've been through most all of that thread once but will definitely need to skim it for the important bits. I still get pretty lost when reading about how to hook it all together and make it work effectively but i'm getting there. I think the variable speed controller will be the first mod I consider since it seems to yield consistently good results, but that probably wont be until after my first winter with it. 

Coming from very limited (and not very successful) experience with a smoke dragon has only increased my desire to learn all this stuff and finally have heat somewhere besides the basement and to not have to burn half a forest to obtain said heat. lol


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## Mrpelletburner (Mar 20, 2018)

If I had to do it again, I would not be buying the FC/Shelter FC1000 model. While HY-C's support has been great, I feel as I have had to invest so much time troubleshooting and still not running 100%. The wife wants the stove gone. She is tired of dealing with the fire alarm going off in the middle of the night from the stove's flash backing.


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 20, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> While HY-C's support has been great,



Realistically, what choice do they have?  It's the only thing they have left to offer at this point seeing the product is pretty much a turd.


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## Boilers (Mar 20, 2018)

One user having issues does not automatically equate to "inherent design flaws". Mrpelletburner has had ongoing issues with no resolution, despite MUCH effort. I cant blame him for feeling the way he does. Some other owners have mentioned things they dont like about how the stove operates, but nobody has had issues to the same extent as mrpelletburner.  

Bottom line is....I'm not ruling out the Shelter SF1000 based on one owners experience. Everyone agrees that it heats well. I mean its only $1200 at Menards right now. This isnt a $5k furnace.. 

I would like to hear from more owners of both Tundra II and the Shelter/Fire Chief FC1000. 

If there are other options in  my price range for EPA approved, efficient, clean burning furnaces, I'd love to hear about them!


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 20, 2018)

I dunno man, maybe I just have higher expectations.  It doesn't matter if I spend $1,200 or $12, I want the product to perform as advertised.  This furnace has not in everything I've read about it.  I totally understand the tweaking of ones setup for optimal functionality for ones own situation.  However, one should not have to touch it in order for it to burn wood safely out of the box.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 20, 2018)

Boilers said:


> One user having issues does not automatically equate to "inherent design flaws". Mrpelletburner has had ongoing issues with no resolution, despite MUCH effort. I cant blame him for feeling the way he does. Some other owners have mentioned things they dont like about how the stove operates, but nobody has had issues to the same extent as mrpelletburner.


He has had the most issues, but they have all had the same problem to some degree. The others have not been as vocal about it, but from what I gather, I don't think any of them are in love with it...or would buy again.
I stand by my previous "inherent design flaws" statement...if for no other reason than the stupidity of putting primary and secondary air on the same intake.


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## Boilers (Mar 20, 2018)

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, and you may very well be right. 

To be clear, Im not saying I am going to buy it either.I'd just like to see more reviews before coming to a conclusion.

Are there any Tundra II or Heatmax II owners out there? Also where is a good place to price these? Drolet lists the MSRP of $2,199.00 but I see most retail stores have it listed at $3k+


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## Mojappa (Mar 20, 2018)

I got the Heatpack from Northern Tool, came to a hair over $2,000 after shipping and such. I wish I had some useful, experienced based review of it but it’s just on a pallet in the basement for now.


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## BoiledOver (Mar 20, 2018)

Get a Cadillac from this outfit. https://www.lamppakuuma.com/furnaces/    Proven performance over many years and the vapor-fire 100 model is epa *phase 2* certified.

Do you have natural gas at the home? That is the gold heat provider now and for the near future. At this time it is clean, affordable and no up front costs unless the current unit needs replacing. A natural gas mod/con with outdoor reset would be extremely efficient.

What is your flue status at the desired furnace location? Is there a masonry chimney right there? You say you had experienced a smoke dragon previously. Care to elaborate? How is your wood pile including moisture content? Modern stoves and boilers require truly seasoned firewood, unlike the owb (smoke dragons).


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## brenndatomu (Mar 20, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Are there any Tundra II or Heatmax II owners out there? Also where is a good place to price these? Drolet lists the MSRP of $2,199.00 but I see most retail stores have it listed at $3k+


I don't know of any TII owners that hang out here regularly...there have been a couple mentions of one here and there, that's about it as far as I know. That's the problem with things that work right...you often never hear much about it. Its usually the people that are having problems that post here...and then they often don't come back for an update post after we help them fix things.

The best place I know of is Menards...I think their list price is around $2k...can get it around $1750 when they do their 11% off sales. The only problem is they apparently are a "seasonal" product and they can't get 'em now...unless you can find a store that has one in stock, but none around here do...they quit stocking them after the Tundra 1 was sold out. 
The strange thing is that I was told by a Menards employee that they can't even order them right now...IDK if that will change in the fall or not...seems odd to me...but they did still have an active SKU # for 'em, so whatever that means, if anything.


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## Boilers (Mar 20, 2018)

Yeah I would totally go the Menards route if possible. We have Menards in every sizable town around here. HOWEVER... Menards doesnt seem to carry any Drolet furnaces any more. They have Drolet stoves, but apparently the furnaces were replaced with Shelter products...thats just what I infer based on products available online. I may have to call Menards and see what they say. 

I do see this on amazon... 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NVPSCV/?tag=hearthamazon-20


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## BoiledOver (Mar 20, 2018)

@Boilers 


BoiledOver said:


> Get a Cadillac from this outfit. https://www.lamppakuuma.com/furnaces/    Proven performance over many years and the vapor-fire 100 model is epa *phase 2* certified.
> 
> Do you have natural gas at the home? That is the gold heat provider now and for the near future. At this time it is clean, affordable and no up front costs unless the current unit needs replacing. A natural gas mod/con with outdoor reset would be extremely efficient.
> 
> What is your flue status at the desired furnace location? Is there a masonry chimney right there? You say you had experienced a smoke dragon previously. Care to elaborate? How is your wood pile including moisture content? Modern stoves and boilers require truly seasoned firewood, unlike the owb (smoke dragons).


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## brenndatomu (Mar 20, 2018)

Boilers said:


> They have Drolet stoves, but apparently the furnaces were replaced with Shelter products...thats just what I infer based on products available online. I may have to call Menards and see what they say.


They have always had Shelter furnaces. Like I said, my store still had a good SKU # in the catalog that was by the wood stoves...but yeah, call your store, see if you get the same answer I did.


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## Boilers (Mar 21, 2018)

BoiledOver said:


> @Boilers



From what I can tell, the Vapor Fire 100 is more than 2x my budget. Im not prepared to drop that much coin.

Natural gas is not an option.

As for the current flue... I am currently in the process of buying this house and the previous owner had a home built furnace in this location. He is removing it though, due to liability reasons. I know that the flue is 6", all internal to the house... What I could see from the basement was all black pipe (non insulated). I have not been able to look into this any further due to not having possession of the house yet. There is no masonry and the only portion of the flue that is outside is the top 4 feet or so where it exits through the roof.

I dont recall mentioning smoke dragons myself, however my brother heats with wood, as does my brother-in-law. They both have the Valcourt Lafayette FP10. My brother-in-law used to have OWB for 4 or 5 years. My grandfather heats with wood as well. I have zero wood stocked up currently, but I am aware of the moisture level requirements.


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## maple1 (Mar 21, 2018)

Boilers said:


> From what I can tell, the Vapor Fire 100 is more than 2x my budget. Im not prepared to drop that much coin.
> 
> Natural gas is not an option.
> 
> ...



You're not getting some kind of inspection done?  That would seem to be standard due diligence on a buyers part. Bit of a gamble buying without knowing what you're in for, especially if you have plans for that chimney.


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## Boilers (Mar 21, 2018)

maple1 said:


> You're not getting some kind of inspection done?  That would seem to be standard due diligence on a buyers part. Bit of a gamble buying without knowing what you're in for, especially if you have plans for that chimney.



My inspection has already been done. Like I said, the current wood furnace is being removed by the owner before I take possession. I am not counting on being able to use the current flue, BUT I will want to use the same location. If the current flue doesnt meet the stove manufacturer's criteria, I will fix it myself or install a new flue that is up to spec. The good thing is that there is a current path directly up and through the roof. I will address clearance issues if there are any. 

I realize I am new here, and I have never ran my own wood furnace, but I am mechanically and electrically capable. Dad is a jouneyman electrician and HVAC tech/installer. We have installed many LP furnaces for existing and new construction, including custom ductwork. Obviously wood furnaces are a bit of a different animal, but not completely different either. I'm very confident we can handle the installation.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 21, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I am currently in the process of buying this house and the previous owner had a home built furnace in this location. He is removing it though, due to liability reasons


...and legality...since May 2017, thanks to the EPA, it is no longer legal to transfer ownership, or even move a non conforming wood burning appliance. You have 2 options with old school stoves/furnaces...the current owner can continue to use it in its current location, or scrap it, that's it.

Sounds like you are already aware of some of the hurdles you will need to cross before being a satisfied wood furnace owner/operator...that's good! Many come here after they jumped in head first and now aren't happy with the results.


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## Boilers (Mar 21, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> ...and legality...since May 2017, thanks to the EPA, it is no longer legal to transfer ownership, or even move a non conforming wood burning appliance. You have 2 options with old school stoves/furnaces...the current owner can continue to use it in its current location, or scrap it, that's it.
> 
> Sounds like you are already aware of some of the hurdles you will need to cross before being a satisfied wood furnace owner/operator...that's good! Many come here after they jumped in head first and now aren't happy with the results.



Completely understand! Have to cover your bases when dealing with noobs...

I really don’t care nor do I have control over what the current owner does with his non conforming stove... but I do appreciate the info. I would have never known this, had you not brought it up!


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## Boilers (Aug 13, 2018)

well friends.... Its been a few months. I got possession of the house 6/1, and I havent had a spare minute since. 

Fall is approaching and I do not have a heating plan yet. I have a gas furnace, but I have no tank or propane. But the local co-op will rent me a tank and some propane.... for a fee of course. I will have to buy wood this season at about $150/cord. Probably leaning towards the Tundra II at this point. It appears that I can get it to my house for under $2k. Also I have inspected the flue that the previous owner left me.. its (see attachment) this stuff all the way from the basement ceiling through the roof. From my research, it seems like the existing flue is made of quality product and should work well.


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## Highbeam (Aug 14, 2018)

Get your propane furnace operative ASAP. Wood is of secondary importance to a thermostatic, automatic, heat source. 

Then, the tundra 2 is a great furnace.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 14, 2018)

$150/cord sounds like a decent price...also sounds "seasoned"...which in Indian means "not dry"...which will leave you frustrated with your new furnace. But you can supplement with slabwood, free used pallets, or a pallet of "ECO" bricks to help get you through this first winter...better order extra wood for next year too...get it started drying now.


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## Boilers (Aug 14, 2018)

It seems I might be scaling back a bit... propane is cheaper than I expected. $1.299/gallon, 1000 gallon tank (no rental fee if I use 500 gallons). 800 gallons (max fill) x $1.299 = $1040+tax. I know propane prices vary, but based on this rate, it would take 2-3 years to break even if I spent $3k on a furnace and got wood for free. I am thinking I will buy a cheaper wood stove or something this year to supplement the gas heat. This way I can prep for more reliance on wood heat in the future without the pressure and added expense of NEEDING everything now. Im not very excited about this decision. but hey, I can still cut and split wood, enjoy the fire, and ease the gas usage a bit.


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## Highbeam (Aug 14, 2018)

You need the gas furnace operable but you don’t need to run it. Every stick of wood you burn will reduce the propane consumption and centrally located stoves are really effective for most homes.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 14, 2018)

That's the price for LP now...how about this winter? They kinda gotcha by the short hairs then...and a few winters back when there was a shortage...nah, not me.
If you can get a Tundra for $2k delivered, I think I would jump on that...metal prices have done nothing but go up, and now we have these tariffs...but the big one in my mind is the 2020 EPA regs...what if nobody except Kuuma can pass it? Gonna spend $5300 for a Kuuma then...think they will still be $5300 then...I don't.


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## Highbeam (Aug 15, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Gonna spend $5300 for a Kuuma then...think they will still be $5300 then...I don't.



Either price hikes (hard to imagine) or backlog due to slow production.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 18, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> The strange thing is that I was told by a Menards employee that they can't even order them right now...IDK if that will change in the fall or not...seems odd to me...but they did still have an active SKU # for 'em, so whatever that means, if anything.


So yeah, just a seasonal thing I guess...Menards showing the Tundra II and the Heatpro available to be ordered in store again.
SKU # 638-1422 for the Tundra II ($1780 after the current 11% off rebate) and then SKU # 638-1421 for the Heatpro ($2313 after rebate)


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## Boilers (Aug 27, 2018)

I have been to several Menards locations and none of them have been able to order any of these Drolet Furnaces. I even had some managers look into on the Menards product system and no dice. Then, I called Drolet and asked about ordering through Menards.... they did mention that they had recently gotten 1 order for a Tundra II from Menards, so it is possible... must have to fight pretty hard to get them to order you one. 

On a brighter note, I have decided to dive in head first after all. My new Stihl MS362C-M is ready to go and I ordered a Drolet Heatmax II and cold air filter kit from myfireplaceproducts just earlier today. 

Also for those concerned, Ive got the gas company coming out for a sight survey soon and they will be installing a 500 gallon tank and fillin her up. 

Furnace installation and wood will be of primary importance now!


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## brenndatomu (Aug 27, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I have been to several Menards locations and none of them have been able to order any of these Drolet Furnaces. I even had some managers look into on the Menards product system and no dice. Then, I called Drolet and asked about ordering through Menards.... they did mention that they had recently gotten 1 order for a Tundra II from Menards, so it is possible... must have to fight pretty hard to get them to order you one.
> 
> On a brighter note, I have decided to dive in head first after all. My new Stihl MS362C-M is ready to go and I ordered a Drolet Heatmax II and cold air filter kit from myfireplaceproducts just earlier today.
> 
> ...


Hmm...when were you there? Earlier in the summer they weren't available to be ordered, but more recently the dude told me when they show back up on the Menards website, then they can order them again...and they were showing up on their site 1.5 - 2 weeks ago now...


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## Boilers (Aug 27, 2018)

I also noticed they were back on the website and thats when i went into the store to try and order one. I went to 3 different stores... in every store, theres a booklet near the wood stoves/furnaces. The booklet has pages for the Tundra II, Heatpro, Heatmax II, Heatpack, etc, but where the price tag belongs, they all have a red tag inserted saying, "Sorry this item in no longer available." I went to the department desk and they tried to order it on the menards website and said they always order them online and since theres no "add to cart" button online, they cant order it. I also went to customer service and they were no help. If anything, youll have to call menards corporate or something.


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## Boilers (Aug 28, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Hmm...when were you there? Earlier in the summer they weren't available to be ordered, but more recently the dude told me when they show back up on the Menards website, then they can order them again...and they were showing up on their site 1.5 - 2 weeks ago now...



If you want to buy this furnace, I’d just purchase from myfireplaceproducts. I’ve heard Menards charges shipping for these, so you come out spending more than at myfireplaceproducts even after the 11% rebate. myfireplaceproducts Has the tundra II at $1899 and Drolet is offering a $150 rebate if purchased before 8/31. Shipping is also free and provides curbside delivery. Better get on it if you want it!


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## brenndatomu (Aug 28, 2018)

Boilers said:


> If you want to buy this furnace, I’d just purchase from myfireplaceproducts. I’ve heard Menards charges shipping for these, so you come out spending more than at myfireplaceproducts even after the 11% rebate. myfireplaceproducts Has the tundra II at $1899 and Drolet is offering a $150 rebate if purchased before 8/31. Shipping is also free and provides curbside delivery. Better get on it if you want it!


Ha, I already have a Tundra! (see my sig line) 
Menards did not charge shipping (to the store) when my sister ordered hers...but that was a couple years ago...things change.


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## Boilers (Aug 28, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Ha, I already have a Tundra! (see my sig line)
> Menards did not charge shipping (to the store) when my sister ordered hers...but that was a couple years ago...things change.



Oh awesome! Well you will be a good resource for me then  
I couldnt tell you for sure on the menards shipping, but I would also have to pay taxes, whereas MFP did not apply taxes.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 28, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Oh awesome! Well you will be a good resource for me then


Well, mine is one of the early T1's (that cracked) so even though there are many similarities I'm sure, not sure if I will be the _best _resource here...but we'll give 'er heck tryin! 
If you are board sometime...https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/everything-drolet-tundra-heatmax.140788/page-1 
Maybe you will hafta start the "Everything Tundra II" thread after you are done...


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## Boilers (Aug 28, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Well, mine is one of the early T1's (that cracked) so even though there are many similarities I'm sure, not sure if I will be the _best _resource here...but we'll give 'er heck tryin!
> If you are board sometime...https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/everything-drolet-tundra-heatmax.140788/page-1
> Maybe you will hafta start the "Everything Tundra II" thread after you are done...



I have read through a LOT of that thread.  I spoke with a tech from Drolet a few days ago and he had some really good info. He said that the overall design has not changed a lot from the Tundra I. The largest change is the plenum. It is supposedly more efficient at removing heat from the stove quickly when compared to the 2 8" outlets of the early model. Due to this, the Tundra II basically cannot be "overfired". He said they have not had any cracking issues since the redesign changes were made. Hopefully there will be no need for a "Everything Tundra II" thread! I will be sure to post up my install with pictures though! I am excited to work on this project. As I mentioned before, my dad is an electrician/HVAC tech by trade and installs gas furnaces/ducting fairly regularly, so I imagine with his help, my setup will end up being fairly nice. I imagine he wont be a big fan of routing multiple 6" ducts into my current main run of ductwork... might have to cut a rectangular hole in the plenum and just run rectangular duct. Ill have to check with Drolet on that though.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 28, 2018)

The new plenum design will help, but the big difference (IMO) was when they quit welding the heat exchanger cleanout box to the front of the furnace! It needs to "float" because they are gonna expand/contract at different rates...and something IS gonna give if you weld them together.


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## DoubleB (Aug 28, 2018)

Boilers said:


> He said that the overall design has not changed a lot from the Tundra I. The largest change is the plenum. It is supposedly more efficient at removing heat from the stove quickly when compared to the 2 8" outlets of the early model.



That makes me feel worse, not better.  I think @brenndatomu is right.  Enough people on here have done enough experimenting and almost universally got cracks, that the problem is much more than anything with a plenum.  By now I take technical explanations from Drolet as interesting theories but nothing authoritative.


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## Boilers (Aug 28, 2018)

DoubleB said:


> That makes me feel worse, not better.  I think @brenndatomu is right.  Enough people on here have done enough experimenting and almost universally got cracks, that the problem is much more than anything with a plenum.  By now I take technical explanations from Drolet as interesting theories but nothing authoritative.



Who knows... techs aren’t engineers by any means. With as many products as SBI makes, I’d expect they have a pretty good idea what they’re doing and something just got by them... there sure isnt a whole lot out there on the Tundra II, which leads me to believe the issue was resolved and  they’re working well. Here’s to hoping!


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## DoubleB (Aug 29, 2018)

Yep time will tell.  I hope you have a good experience, and look forward to hearing any news or updates of how it goes!


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## Boilers (Aug 30, 2018)

DoubleB said:


> Yep time will tell.  I hope you have a good experience, and look forward to hearing any news or updates of how it goes!



Anybody have any insight as to how these are shipped? Mine is at the freight place and I want to pick it up myself instead of them just dropping it at the end of the driveway. My 1/2 ton truck has a 6.5’ bed and a topper, which I reall don’t want to take off. Topper limits height to about 36”


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## brenndatomu (Aug 30, 2018)

Boilers said:


> opper limits height to about 36”


You'll need to take that off...


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## maple1 (Aug 31, 2018)

Borrow a trailer? Or get a Uhaul trailer - pretty cheap for a day.


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## Boilers (Aug 31, 2018)

Thanks guys... it took a lot of effort. A topless truck, a rented pallet jack, a hill, a bridge made of 3/4” plywood and 2x4s, and many sheets of plywood a laid on the ground to roll through the yard and finally through the garage door in my walkout basement. Just me and my wife. I can’t imagine going down stairs. Well I guess I have helped get many 500 lb gun safes down stairs before... not fun. 

BUT IT IN THE BASEMENT!! 

I’m thinking I’d like to put it on some blocks. 9 ft basement ceilings so no big deal there. I saw on the big thread this has been done before. Not sure how high I want it though.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 31, 2018)

Nice work man! (pics required) 
Puttin them up on 8" blocks is just about right IMO. 
I don't have the headroom to pull it off here, so mine is on the floor...but my sisters is on 8" blocks, much better!


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## Boilers (Sep 1, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Nice work man! (pics required)
> Puttin them up on 8" blocks is just about right IMO.
> I don't have the headroom to pull it off here, so mine is on the floor...but my sisters is on 8" blocks, much better!




10-4. Once I get it all un crated tomorrow I’ll get a better idea of door height and how much higher I may want to go. 

My install will be interesting. I’d like to use my existing furnace duct for 80% of the heat distribution. Sounds like I’ll need auto closing (gravity)/opening (forced air) dampers everywhere....for tundra supply, tundra cold air, gas furnace supply, and gas furnace cold air. Sound about right? 

Do you guys really follow the length of duct run rules specified in the manual? Also what about the 6” clearances? Is there really any more risk than with a gas furnace? I just can’t see myself running all new duct for the whole house and doubling the holes in my floor, etc. My main duct runs the length of the house and hangs from the bottom of the wooden floor joists. It’s really only close or touching the wood at the top corners of the rectangular duct.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 1, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Do you guys really follow the length of duct run rules specified in the manual? Also what about the 6” clearances? Is there really any more risk than with a gas furnace? I just can’t see myself running all new duct for the whole house and doubling the holes in my floor, etc. My main duct runs the length of the house and hangs from the bottom of the wooden floor joists. It’s really only close or touching the wood at the top corners of the rectangular duct.


I dunno what the T2 manual says about length of duct runs...the main thing IMO is too make sure your static pressure is not too high when you are done.
6" clearance for the first 6' ft (or whatever it says for length) is a VERY good rule to follow! This is COMPLETLY different than your gas furnace! A gas furnace shuts off when the power goes out...no problem. When the power goes out on your wood furnace, the fire doesn't care...and this is the time when you need to have your ducts RIGHT, for gravity flow and clearance to combustibles (CTC)...these things can get EXTREMLY hot when the power is out...ignore this stuff and you may come home to find a bunch of nice fireman chopping holes in your roof. And that's if you are lucky enough to be away...what if you and your family are sleeping upstairs...are you positive everybody will be OK?
If you invite fire into your home, you play by its rules, not yours, follow the guidelines in the manual. Many if not all the guidelines having to do with furnace installations were made up to prevent more deaths...in other words, some one died because there wood furnace ductwork was too close to the homes framing...causing a fire...or CO poisoning. Here locally, a year or two back there was a couple (and their dog) that died right after installing a new coal furnace...CO poisoning after the power went out. I dunno what happened, but I'd bet something was boogered up on the install.

By the way...I have personally witnessed 214* F duct temps (close to the furnace) on mine after only ten minutes with no power...and this was with a relatively small fire built...I was sure glad I had good CTC!
Think 214* can't light your framing up? Wrong. Its been documented where a hot water line (heating) in an old apartment building caused pyrolysis to the wood beams and after years and years of being fine, one day it lite 'er up...and I don't know how they know this...but the water pipe temp was only 185*(or something like that)...pyrolysis...google it.


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## Boilers (Sep 2, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> 6" clearance for the first 6' ft (or whatever it says for length) is a VERY good rule to follow!



I must’ve missed the first 6 feet part. That’s no problem. Fire risk you say? I don’t want any of that!


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## brenndatomu (Sep 2, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I must’ve missed the first 6 feet part. That’s no problem. Fire risk you say? I don’t want any of that!


I just looked the T2 manual up...it doesn't actually say the 6' part...it shows it in the diagram, but then gives no spec for it. See how they show the plenum and first part of the duct being lower, then it goes up? That's your 6" (actually they say 5", spec C) 6" for 6' is a solid fuel furnace standard though...so even though they don't spell it out, I'd do their listed 5" for 6'.
I see what you mean about the duct length stuff...it gets complicated...I'd make sure your dad (or whoever does your duct runs) reads through this part of the manual real well.


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## Highbeam (Sep 2, 2018)

There is always a risk of fire with a solid fuel appliance. You mitigate the risk by following the manual’s requirements. Some people never trust their installs and some are so brazen that they violate the requirements and sleep well. Some others just trust the professional (sometimes smart sometimes dumb).


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## brenndatomu (Sep 2, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I also noticed they were back on the website and thats when i went into the store to try and order one. I went to 3 different stores... in every store, theres a booklet near the wood stoves/furnaces. The booklet has pages for the Tundra II, Heatpro, Heatmax II, Heatpack, etc, but where the price tag belongs, they all have a red tag inserted saying, "Sorry this item in no longer available." I went to the department desk and they tried to order it on the menards website and said they always order them online and since theres no "add to cart" button online, they cant order it. I also went to customer service and they were no help. If anything, youll have to call menards corporate or something.


I was at Menerds tonite...the T2 is available to be ordered now, and the Heatpro is listed on their website too, but they say they can't actually order it yet...they said since its seasonal, it should available in the next few weeks, also said sometimes the seasonal stuff just kinda trickles in here n there at first.


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## Mrpelletburner (Sep 4, 2018)

So what is the burn time of the Tundra II? Still have the HYC in the basement and nothing was done to correct any issues.

Also if you don’t mind me asking, how much did the stove set you back?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 4, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> So what is the burn time of the Tundra II? Still have the HYC in the basement and nothing was done to correct any issues.
> 
> Also if you don’t mind me asking, how much did the stove set you back?


Should be the same as a T1...6 hours run hard, 8 normally, 10-12 in mild weather...but it all depends on the heat load of your house.
Price...https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/furnace-recommendation.168131/page-2#post-2275866


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## Boilers (Sep 4, 2018)

Well my first fire went okay tonight. 6’ flue and 85 degree temps didn’t help my draft much. Had to keep the damper open just to keep the fire going. The blower kicked on probably 25 times in about a 2 hour span and it also stayed on for 3-5 minutes at a time. Seemed encouraging. Unfortunately every time I got a good secondary burn going and I closed the damper, I would have a full on smolder within 5 minutes or less. ( has to be due to low draft) Amazing watching the smoke go completely clear once I opened the damper and the secondaries got going again. I also heard one rather loud metal pop that has me a little concerned. Is this normal? Like it was loud enough to interrupt a conversation. There were lots of little pops and creaks.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 4, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Well my first fire went okay tonight. 6’ flue and 85 degree temps didn’t help my draft much. Had to keep the damper open just to keep the fire going. The blower kicked on probably 25 times in about a 2 hour span and it also stayed on for 3-5 minutes at a time. Seemed encouraging. Unfortunately every time I got a good secondary burn going and I closed the damper, I would have a full on smolder within 5 minutes or less. ( has to be due to low draft) Amazing watching the smoke go completely clear once I opened the damper and the secondaries got going again. I also heard one rather loud metal pop that has me a little concerned. Is this normal? Like it was loud enough to interrupt a conversation. There were lots of little pops and creaks.


Blower on n off is due to low static pressure, (at least partially) and low draft...pretty normal in these temps.
The loud pop...not "normal", but not uncommon either...have had it happen myself, on more than one model stove...look it over good, but its more than likely fine.


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## Boilers (Sep 5, 2018)

Flue pipe self inspection tonight was a bit interesting. I’ve only lived here a few months, but quickly learned there was no cap on the flue (rainwater and washed out creosote on the basement floor) Thankfully there’s a floor drain within 2 feet. Previous owner left the trim ring portion of the cap on, but not the rain cover for the main tube. Trim ring did cover the air gap between 2nd and 3rd pipe layer. I took this ring off and found some corrosion but everything seems sound. Thoughts?

See picture. 

I put another 9” section of pipe on to get closer to the 3’ clearance over the peak (probably still only 2.5’) and then a new rain cap. See picture.


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## ratsrepus (Sep 18, 2018)

I heard the Kuma is good, I would look at the the energy King through Empire distributing, they had the first EPA forced air furnace, called the 385. My first go around with wood furnaces was a Fire Chief, big red mother, I sold that and went to a Charmaster. wasn't impressed with that either. I did make alot of creosote.


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## woodey (Sep 18, 2018)

ratsrepus said:


> I heard the is kumma is good


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You heard right. I have had the Kuuma VF100 for the past 2 winters and have been more than satisfied. Great furnace.


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## Boilers (Sep 25, 2018)

I am working to get the duct installed in parallel with my LP furnace . See attached diagram. Any thoughts? Do I really need the dampers on the cold air side? It seems that the hot air dampers would minimized backdraft, but I am concerned that the LP furnace could suck hot air off the wood furnace through the cold air.

Dad did help me size the duct. I am planning to run a single 14" round duct from wood furnace plenum into the plenum above the LP furnace A-Coil. At 1400 CFM, this should give me close to .2 static pressure. If I need to run at a lower speed, I may put a damper in. I cant remember what size duct we decided on for the cold air, but I have it at home. We sized it larger than the hot air duct though.


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## Spanky (Sep 25, 2018)

I also have the Kuuma VF100 and am very happy.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 25, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I am working to get the duct installed in parallel with my LP furnace . See attached diagram. Any thoughts? Do I really need the dampers on the cold air side? It seems that the hot air dampers would minimized backdraft, but I am concerned that the LP furnace could suck hot air off the wood furnace through the cold air.
> 
> Dad did help me size the duct. I am planning to run a single 14" round duct from wood furnace plenum into the plenum above the LP furnace A-Coil. At 1400 CFM, this should give me close to .2 static pressure. If I need to run at a lower speed, I may put a damper in. I cant remember what size duct we decided on for the cold air, but I have it at home. We sized it larger than the hot air duct though.


I don't think you need dampers on both sides of both furnaces...1 on each should do it. What I would do is put one on the LP furnace supply like you have it in the drawing...then one on the return air duct of the Tundra. Reason being, for gravity flow on the Tundra if the power goes out...you'll notice the air filter/blower box is not 100% sealed up on those...they do that (leak) on purpose to make so it can easily get some airflow to cool itself on power failure. My Yukon furnace actually has a 1" gap on one side of the air filter for this same reason.
And don't worry too much about hitting .2 SP when you start it up...if you do, it will do nothing but cycle on/off all the time (unless they changed more on the T2 than I think they did)  Setting up a wood furnace is a lot different than a fossil fuel furnace...on those you just set the SP and/or temp rise, good to go.
On the T1 you set the blower speed so it could cool itself with a ripping fire, but then not cycle too bad at the end of the burn. For most people that was speed 2...I had mine set on speed 1 until I put the speed control on it.


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## Boilers (Sep 25, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> I don't think you need dampers on both sides of both furnaces...1 on each should do it. What I would do is put one on the LP furnace supply like you have it in the drawing...then one on the return air duct of the Tundra. Reason being, for gravity flow on the Tundra if the power goes out...you'll notice the air filter/blower box is not 100% sealed up on those...they do that (leak) on purpose to make so it can easily get some airflow to cool itself on power failure. My Yukon furnace actually has a 1" gap on one side of the air filter for this same reason.
> And don't worry too much about hitting .2 SP when you start it up...if you do, it will do nothing but cycle on/off all the time (unless they changed more on the T2 than I think they did)  Setting up a wood furnace is a lot different than a fossil fuel furnace...on those you just set the SP and/or temp rise, good to go.
> On the T1 you set the blower speed so it could cool itself with a ripping fire, but then not cycle too bad at the end of the burn. For most people that was speed 2...I had mine set on speed 1 until I put the speed control on it.



Great suggestion! Thank you! I have revised my diagram. 

I may just use a manual "slidegates" as backdraft dampers for now (with gas furnace switched off). We will see how well this thing heats the house. If it cant keep up,  I dont want to be pulling out the "slidegates" every time the gas furnace needs to run. In that case, I will spend a few extra bucks and buy or make something with louvers that will open and close on their own based on which appliance is running. Then Id also have to interlock the gas and wood furnace so they cant run at the same time, but also prevent the wood furnace from overheating.... we will cross that bridge later!


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## brenndatomu (Sep 25, 2018)

Yeah I think that should work...maybe another "air scorcher" here can look this over to make sure I didn't miss something though...and if you are going to do the manual gate thing, a piece of cardboard or tin slid behind the air filter works...just don't forget to pull it out when the furnace is started back up!


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## Boilers (Oct 15, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah I think that should work...maybe another "air scorcher" here can look this over to make sure I didn't miss something though...and if you are going to do the manual gate thing, a piece of cardboard or tin slid behind the air filter works...just don't forget to pull it out when the furnace is started back up!



I’m about ready to fire it up! Everything is plumbed except the cold air return. I will have to set the barometric damper and monitor temps pretty closely on the first burn. Also still need to notify insurance company. 

Excuse the filthy basement....


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## brenndatomu (Nov 4, 2018)

Boilers said:


> I’m about ready to fire it up!


Weeeell?


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 10, 2018)

How is the stove working out for you?


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## Boilers (Nov 13, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Weeeell?





Mrpelletburner said:


> How is the stove working out for you?



Thanks for asking!

I cant say I am super happy with the purchase at this point. (some of it is probably my fault). Im not really unhappy either. I have been heating with the wood furnace 100% for 3 weeks now. The first 2 weeks, I'd fire it up for the overnight only and let it die out during the day. This past week, its been running nonstop, as the daily high temps have been 45 and lower. Theres been a few days the temp hasnt broke 35.

My problems...

1. Getting secondaries to stay lit when closing the damper. I get the fire roaring with the damper open (flue temp 350-400 ish via IR gun), then close it and the fire looks awesome for 30 seconds, then it just slowly dies out. I have my manometer and draft is not the issue. Im thinking wet wood is the issue. Small-medium size loads are specifically very hard to get consistent secondary burn. I end up spending an hour opening and closing the damper to get the stupid thing to stay lit.

2. Burn time. again, this may be due to wet wood, but i spend so much time fiddling with the damper and ramping the stove up and down, that by the time the secondaries stay going, the wood is glowing orange all the way around.

3. Cycling blower. I used one 14" tube which ties directly into the main trunk for my existing HVAC system. What bothers me is, the blower can run 4 different speeds, and i dont have any control over what speed it runs. I sized my duct for max speed, but I guess I should have sized it for speed 1 or 2? I have closed down all of my floor registers, and with a big fire, the blower doesnt cycle much for the first few hours of the burn cycle.

4. Barometric damper. I installed the $30 Vogelzang from Menards and this thing is junk. Like absolute garbage. With wind gusts, Ive seen my draft at 0.2 before, and steadily at 0.12. I installed it exactly to the supplied instructions, and I have adjusted it as much as possible. The thing will barely move. It swings freely when I move it, but does not react to changes in draft. At one point I adjusted it such that it was very sensitive. It still would not react to small changes in draft, then i'd get a wind gust and the damper would go to fully open and stay there! Ive inspected it closely, and it seems that the hinge pins are not aligned, which creates resistance. They both point slightly upwards, toward the top center of the round opening. Their misalignment is such that the damper will stay wide open once a wind gust causes it to get that far. If I adjust the weight so that this cant happen, then the damper just wont ever do anything.

All that said, if someone can recommend a good damper, I'd love to get something that works.

I am still learning, and I realize most of this will get sorted out with some tuning. In the end... Ive heated my house with this furnace for 3 weeks, and I havent used a single drop of propane. Granted the house did get down to 61 degrees at one point, but that was my fault. I havent really packed the furnace full yet. Ive probably done a handful of 3/4 full loads. Those loads definitely required the least amount of attention.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 13, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Barometric damper. I installed the $30 Vogelzang from Menards and this thing is junk.


Yes! 
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-6-RC-6-Draft-Regulator-for-Wood-Oil-or-Coal
As for everything else...sounds like you need to visit the big Tundra thread...it is specifically on the T1, but all the issues you are dealing with are in there. Link to the threads "glossary" in my sig line below


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## Boilers (Nov 13, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Yes!
> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-6-RC-6-Draft-Regulator-for-Wood-Oil-or-Coal
> As for everything else...sounds like you need to visit the big Tundra thread...it is specifically on the T1, but all the issues you are dealing with are in there. Link to the threads "glossary" in my sig line below



Thanks! I have read a lot of the Tundra 1 thread. Its been helpful for sure.

All of the wood I am burning was cut and split late summer of this year. It was all dead, so its somewhat dry, but I highly doubt its under 20%. Since each log i cut has been dead for varying lengths of time and some of it was standing, while some was on the ground, Im sure I have wood with varying moisture content. This complicates things, as one load may light up quickly, but the next will barely burn when I close down the damper. I have noticed some sizzling noise here and there with certain pieces of wood. So MC is definitely part of my struggle.

I really wish the damper were adjustable. I could easily cut a bigger hole in the damper and fabricate a slide gate with a knurled set screw, but I dont necessarily want to go chopping on my brand new furnace and void the warranty. I have experimented with propping the damper open a bit with 16D nail wedged in there, but it doesnt seem to help a whole lot.

Another issue I had was the spring part of the door handle kept coming off. Finally i squashed it down with some pliers last night and used a propane torch to heat it up and slip in on. It seems very tight now and I don't think it'll fall off anymore. Also the propane torch works nicely to jump start a new load. I definitely make sure to store the torch/propane WELL away from the furnace. In fact I usually disconnect the propane and take it to another room.

I am not real sure my return air is setup how I'd like. I ran the furnace a few times with the furnace just drawing from the rooms its in, and it seemed to heat up the house fast. Like 5 or 6 degrees in a couple hours. Now that its plumbed into the house return air duct, I get 1 or 1.5 degrees of change per hour. It seems that if I let the return air suck from the ceiling of the furnace room, while leaving the house return air duct open, I could draw in warmer air, while still having a place for the room to draw air from, thereby not holding back the blower any..... 

Ive attached a few pictures of my setup...


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## brenndatomu (Nov 13, 2018)

Yep, sounds like its mostly a wet wood problem...you can supplement with used pallets...get a pallet buster and get to gettin.
A circular saw will make quick work of them too. Cut the slats off the stringers, then cut the stringers in two, bam, firewood (with nails...dispose of ashes where the nails don't matter!) Also, a couple of those ECO bricks thrown in with a load can help a lot...just need something dry in there that will maintain the secondary burn so the rest of it can dry out and burn too...not the most efficient, and you'll need to clean your HE and chimney a lot, but it'll make heat until you can find or build up your dry wood supply.


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## laynes69 (Nov 13, 2018)

If the damper opens and remains open, you may have the weight upside down? The furnaces need good dry wood, but try a paperclip on the damper to keep it open a hair. I really believe for the damper to close a completely you need popcorn cart dry pine or mini splits. No matter how seasoned the wood, good seasoned splits need a little extra air. If your wood isn't seasoned, you'll get a fraction of the heat it can produce. Your house also may not be as tight and insulated as you think. We have a caddy but it's the same firebox. We can bring up the house in 30 degree weather 2 degrees in less than 20 minutes with a good hot fire. If we had wet wood, there's no way!


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## brenndatomu (Nov 13, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> We can bring up the house in 30 degree weather 2 degrees in less than 20 minutes with a good hot fire


Wow, the only furnace that I've had that could do that (besides fossil fuel) was the Yukon...this place seems to take forever to heat up, but takes awhile to cool off too...


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## laynes69 (Nov 13, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Wow, the only furnace that I've had that could do that (besides fossil fuel) was the Yukon...this place seems to take forever to heat up, but takes awhile to cool off too...


The old furnace, I could have a 10 degree increase within a half hour or so if I fed it too much. In the 30's I have to be careful how much I feed cause its not uncommon to wake up in the middle of the night to 78-80! It's 29 here now and it's 74 and climbing and I've done my partial load for bed.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 13, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> I have to be careful how much I feed cause its not uncommon to wake up in the middle of the night to 78-80! It's 29 here now and it's 74 and climbing and I've done my partial load for bed.



I hear ya.  Need to start weighing wood, over time you'll get a good feel for how much to load and also your burning rates in order to easily compute how much to load based on outside temp.       Downside is your wife may try to commit you to the loony bin.    

It's 12° here and supposedly on it's way down to single digits and I'm waiting for my small 16lb load from after work to pretty much disappear before loading tonight's load.  House is also 74° (was 75° a minute ago) and Kuuma is set to minimum burn.  Still running the slow blower speeds with great results too.


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## Brokenstone (Nov 14, 2018)

I can pretty much get a 5 degree temperature rise per hour with my Yukon in any weather. It is definitely capable of putting out the heat.
Is "Boilers" measuring his draft on the wrong port of the manometer?
I would make it a priority to switch to the Field Barometric Damper.


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 14, 2018)

Do you happen to have a parts list for he tubing you used for your manometer?


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## maple1 (Nov 14, 2018)

I just picked a piece of steel brakeline off the shelf at an auto parts place (12"+/-) that had a fitting on the end I could jimmy up to hold it to the pipe thru a hole I drilled into it. Might have had to also pick up a second fitting to fit into the first to sandwich the pipe between. I cut the other end of the brakeline off & fit it into the manometer hose. So get a size that you can slip the hose over the end of. Tightly.

And yes as hinted at above, make sure you hook it up between the furnace & barometer so it reads what your furnace is seeing. But I suspect you've got that covered.

If you meant the rubber tubing that comes with the manometer - don't have a listing for that. But thinking should be able to find a simple tubing replacement of proper size to fit tightly on the mano fitting?


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## Brokenstone (Nov 14, 2018)

My Dwyer Manometer came with its own rubber tubing and a very small copper tube 3-4 inches long.
Drill a hole in your black pipe about the same diameter as whatever metal tubing you use.
Insert it in your black pipe before your Manometer, zero your manometer beforehand and then measure your draft.


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## maple1 (Nov 14, 2018)

Mine only came with the rubber stuff.


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## Brokenstone (Nov 14, 2018)

maple1 said:


> Mine only came with the rubber stuff.




Brake line should work ok.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 14, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Do you happen to have a parts list for he tubing you used for your manometer?


I just drilled a 1/4" hole on the side of the pipe, bent a 2' piece of 1/4" copper tubing into an S shape, let the tubing hang in the hole, just stuffed the rubber tubing into the copper...but I like what @Boilers did here, nice set up.


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## Brokenstone (Nov 14, 2018)

I should have written Before your draft regulator, NOT "before your manometer" sorry for the confusion I may have created.


Brokenstone said:


> My Dwyer Manometer came with its own rubber tubing and a very small copper tube 3-4 inches long.
> Drill a hole in your black pipe about the same diameter as whatever metal tubing you use.
> Insert it in your black pipe before your Manometer, zero your manometer beforehand and then measure your draft.


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## Boilers (Nov 30, 2018)

My Dwyer manometer only came with rubber tubing as well.

Here is my parts list:

I also used a brake line cutter, and teflon tape for all brass threaded connections. 

*Copper tubing: 10 feet, 1/4" OD: $5.19*

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...392-c-8565.htm?tid=2076481299813891540&ipos=2

*Brass 1/4" compression x 1/4" MIP Elbow: $3.79*

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...sion-x-mip-elbow/17700066/p-1444442660180.htm

*Brass 1/4" coupling : $1.99*

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...226-c-9432.htm?tid=9189495332155370736&ipos=8

*Brass 1/4" MIP to 1/8" ID Barb : $1.45*

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...44-c-9432.htm?tid=-971545138363657752&ipos=12


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## Brokenstone (Nov 30, 2018)

The copper tubing that came with my Manometer is a lot smaller than a 1/4 inch.


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## Boilers (Nov 30, 2018)

Brokenstone said:


> The copper tubing that came with my Manometer is a lot smaller than a 1/4 inch.


The 1/4" OD copper tubing I linked to above is supposedly 1/8" ID. I measured it myself and it slightly larger than 1/8" ID, but in the end, the Dwyer manometer just gives you a ballpark measurement anyway. 

Dwyer lists the accuracy at  ±3% FS, so 3% x full scale (3) = 0.09 IN H2O. This means that the actually accuracy on this model is +/- 0.09 IN H2O

I dont expect my measurement is off by a whole 3% in either direction, but its probably not as exact as we would like.


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## Boilers (Nov 30, 2018)

As an update, I have still only heated the house with the wood furnace except for 2 days when we left to visit family for Thanksgiving. We did have a few very cool days where the temperature was in the high teens for much of the day and around 10 degrees overnight. The furnace was able to maintain the house temperature, but could barely raise the temp in the house. I woke up to 62 degrees. I started a new load and it took 3-4 hours to get the house temp up to 66. At that point, the fire had burned down enough that there was no way it would raise the temp any higher without adding more wood.

I have checked some of my firewood and its about 30% moisture content. It takes a solid 30-45 minutes of tampering with the door/ draft control before the fire will stay lit on its own with the damper closed. Its quite a pain. I cant wait to get some truly dry wood to try out. I have cleaned the heat exchanger and flue one time. The flue was fairly clean. I definitely got more soot out of the heat exchanger than i did out of the whole 24' flue.

The Field Barometric Damper model 6-RC has now been installed for 2 days. It works like a dream. Its set such that it keeps the draft between 0.055 and 0.065. I cant say (yet) that this has made much difference in the heat output of the furnace, but it definitely gives me more peace of mind knowing that when I go to bed, there will not be any more high draft conditions, no matter what the weather is outside.

Operation wise, once I get the fire to maintain a good burn, the temp probe in the plenum usually reads 125-130. The fan will run continuously for quite a while. I have never had the temp probe read 140+. I dont know if this is because my wood isnt very dry or what. I think if I were to close down my floor registers a little more and create more static pressure, I might be able to maintain house temps better overnight. Still some experimenting to do...

Lastly, I really think I can boost the output of this furnace by making my cold air duct suck off the ceiling of the furnace room. This air is "preheated" by the radiant heat of the furnace/plenum. With my IR temp gun, Ive measured 90 degrees above the furnace, tapering off to 73 degrees in the furthest parts of the room. It was only 67 degrees on the main floor. My logic is that the plenum temps will be hotter if I'm ducting in ~80 degree air vs ~67 degree air from the rest of the house. I will be testing this soon, as I dont think the furnace will keep up once the bitter cold arrives.


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## maple1 (Nov 30, 2018)

Dry wood should make a big difference - 30 is pretty wet. Also usually readings get more inaccurate in that range, so it might even be higher.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 30, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Lastly, I really think I can boost the output of this furnace by making my cold air duct suck off the ceiling of the furnace room. This air is "preheated" by the radiant heat of the furnace/plenum. With my IR temp gun, Ive measured 90 degrees above the furnace, tapering off to 73 degrees in the furthest parts of the room. It was only 67 degrees on the main floor. My logic is that the plenum temps will be hotter if I'm ducting in ~80 degree air vs ~67 degree air from the rest of the house. I will be testing this soon, as I dont think the furnace will keep up once the bitter cold arrives.



This is one of the little tweaks I did with my cold air.  It does make a difference.  I'm taking in basement ceiling air and mixing it with some reclaimed air off of the hottest part on the face of the Kuuma and then it gets sent through the air jacket on the Kuuma.  All you are doing is increasing the furnace's delivered efficiency.  It does make a difference though.  I'm seeing "cold air" temps inside the blower box as high as 86°.


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 30, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> This is one of the little tweaks I did with my cold air.  It does make a difference.  I'm taking in basement ceiling air and mixing it with some reclaimed air off of the hottest part on the face of the Kuuma and then it gets sent through the air jacket on the Kuuma.  All you are doing is increasing the furnace's delivered efficiency.  It does make a difference though.  I'm seeing "cold air" temps inside the blower box as high as 86°.



Any chance you could post a photo?


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## brenndatomu (Nov 30, 2018)

I'm surprised you are getting along as well as you are with wood that wet @Boilers , once you get some 18-20% wood you will be fine.
Also, read through the big Tundra thread to find out how to install a temp controller, it will eliminate all that twiddling around trying to maintain the fire after you load


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## Boilers (Nov 30, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> I'm surprised you are getting along as well as you are with wood that wet @Boilers , once you get some 18-20% wood you will be fine.
> Also, read through the big Tundra thread to find out how to install a temp controller, it will eliminate all that twiddling around trying to maintain the fire after you load



Not all of it is 30%. Everything I’m burning was dead wood, that I cut and split late summer. So the skinny stuff is pretty dry. The large splits are pretty wet, ~30%. I’ve been hand selecting the most dry pieces based on size, weight, and appearance. I’m beginning to run out of small stuff though!


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 30, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Any chance you could post a photo?




Sure, but there may be some  ,  and  responses.  Red Green would be proud, but disappointed I didn't use more duct tape.    

A few years ago I experimented with using Home Depot boxes to box out the intake of the cold air and bring it up to the basement ceiling.  I saw immediate results and left it like that.  The following year I wanted to have it made permanent by using sheet metal and had two HVAC companies come out to give me an estimate to have it done.  They both left stating I would hear back from them shortly.  It's been years and never heard squat.  My guess it's way too small of a job for them to come out by us to do.  So, my HD boxes still remain.  Fugly, yes, but also functional and that's all I care about.  If I knew what I was doing I could do the sheet metal myself, but I don't so I won't.

The rigid ducts run from the front of the Kuuma to the rear "box out" of the return and suck/reclaim some of the radiant heat off the face of the furnace, at the hottest part, where it mixes with the air being pulled off the basement ceiling and then sent through the furnace jacket to be heated before being sent out to the house.  The whole basement still remains heated quite well just with the leftover radiant heat. 

Seeing I'm sure I'll be asked about the duct connected to the BD, I figure I'll explain it.  It just goes to a cold air make up air vent on the outside of the house.  It sends unheated outside air up the chimney instead of using heated basement air to regulate the draft.  Ran it this way since February of last year with no issues, even though I'm seeing stack temps right at the collar (before they get mixed with the outside air) of down to the 270° range when on pilot.  No issues with condensation or creosote.  I also have a tee and 4" reducer in the makeup air duct near the floor which points at the ground in order to provide makeup air for combustion, LP drier and the LP Power Vent water heater.

BTW, the extension cord in the photo is no where near as close as it looks.  I have since routed it up and out of the way of when I remove the stove pipe at the end of the burning season.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 30, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Seeing I'm sure I'll be asked about the duct connected to the BD, I figure I'll explain it. It just goes to a cold air make up air vent on the outside of the house. It sends unheated outside air up the chimney instead of using heated basement air to regulate the draft. Ran it this way since February of last year with no issues, even though I'm seeing stack temps right at the collar of down to the 270° range at times when on pilot. No issues with condensation or creosote.


Which you would only get away with this on a Kuuma...nothing else burns clean enough to not creosote the chimney up with these low temps. No smoke, no creosote.


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 30, 2018)

Have you measured the temperature before the distribution blower? Just wondering what is the return air temperature.

I know the area around my stove stays a constant 76 degrees and the air before the distribution blower is 73 degrees. Based on your photos, I am going to test out making a duct from cardboard, see if I can raise that temp.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 30, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Have you measured the temperature before the distribution blower? Just wondering what is the return air temperature.
> 
> I know the area around my stove stays a constant 76 degrees and the air before the distribution blower is 73 degrees. Based on your photos, I am going to test out making a duct from cardboard, see if I can raise that temp.


Careful...you'll need to do some crafty origami to keep this "duct" well away from your stove pipe, especially as much heat as gets sent up the stack on those Firechiefs.
I suppose you could treat it with fire retardant too...this works good, I've tried it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003M8G39E/?tag=hearthamazon-20


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 30, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Careful...you'll need to do some crafty origami to keep this "duct" well away from your stove pipe, especially as much heat as gets sent up the stack on those Firechiefs.
> I suppose you could treat it with fire retardant too...this works good, I've tried it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003M8G39E/?tag=hearthamazon-20



Way ahead of you [emoji12]

The other day I ordered ceramic insulation to wrap around the exposed stove pipe.

1" Ceramic Insulation Blanket for QuadraFire Wood Stoves, & More. 31" x 24" x 1" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CJNE3QI/?tag=hearthamazon-20


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 30, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Have you measured the temperature before the distribution blower? Just wondering what is the return air temperature.
> 
> I know the area around my stove stays a constant 76 degrees and the air before the distribution blower is 73 degrees. Based on your photos, I am going to test out making a duct from cardboard, see if I can raise that temp.



Mine's going to be higher because of reclaiming it off the face.  I hit consistent mid 80's during a burn.

If you are talking the temp of the air I'm pulling off the ceiling, that's normally around mid 70's or so.  I have an indoor/outdoor temp gauge hanging right at the intake at the ceiling.



brenndatomu said:


> Which you would only get away with this on a Kuuma...nothing else burns clean enough to not creosote the chimney up with these low temps. No smoke, no creosote.




Yep.  I'm not going to lie, I do see some light creosote buildup right at the BD tee in the stovepipe, but it's not enough to even remotely be concerned about and cleaning it once a year is just fine.  Most of it is from doing all the cold lights I've been doing during the shoulder season.  It hasn't been consistently cold enough yet to be burning 24/7.  The short piece of pipe attached between the BD tee and BD gets pretty cold when it's cold outside.  The temp of the air entering the BD has gotten down to 20°.  Not this year yet, but last year.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 30, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Careful...you'll need to do some crafty origami to keep this "duct" well away from your stove pipe, especially as much heat as gets sent up the stack on those Firechiefs.
> I suppose you could treat it with fire retardant too...this works good, I've tried it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003M8G39E/?tag=hearthamazon-20



  Was thinking the same thing.


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## Boilers (Dec 10, 2018)

Another long post here...

I recently decided my wood was mostly too wet. I cut down a couple standing dead elms, and to my delight, most of the wood is near 20% moisture. I’ve been splitting (by hand) several pieces a day to keep a decent stock going. So I’m burning dry wood for now!

I haven’t noticed much difference in heat output .

I did however finally get around to hooking my manometer up to my hot air duct. My initial readin was 0.03!!

Since I had some spare sheet metal around, I decided to make a damper for my 14” main duct. See attached photos. At furnace speed 1, I’ve now got 0.2 in H2O. I just did this tonight, so I haven’t had much time to evaluate the possible benefits. Air velocity at the vents is obviously decreased quite a bit, but hopefully the fan will stay on a lot longer. Time will tell. I’ll report more later.

I still need to install the thermostat. This should help a lot. Many times I’ll wake up in the morning to find a lot of coals in the firebox, but very long intervals between when the fan kicks on. More air should keep the coals going and keep them from blanketing over with ash. We’ll see.

Lastly, I still have not rerouted my cold air to pickup heat off the furnace room. I think this should also boost the heat output significantly. More to come!


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## Boilers (Dec 12, 2018)

Thermostat is installed! 

So when I was controlling the damper manually, I would only have it open for 30 (ish) minutes at startup, and also when the firebox was down to just coals. 

Now with the thermostat, the damper could potentially be open for much longer, or even the entire burn cycle if the gap between temp and setpoint is big enough. This is unfamiliar territory for me. Ive always been careful to NOT leave the damper open. Is there any risk here or am I just a noob?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 12, 2018)

Having the damper open all the time was what SBI was blaming the cracks on (early on) with the T1...I think you'll find it a very inefficient way to run...it makes a lot of heat quick, but a load on lasts 3 hours.
I unhooked the T-stat on mine after a day or two...never used it again...just used the bath fan timer and the temp controller.


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## 3fordasho (Dec 12, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Having the damper open all the time was what SBI was blaming the cracks on (early on) with the T1...I think you'll find it a very inefficient way to run...it makes a lot of heat quick, but a load on lasts 3 hours.
> I unhooked the T-stat on mine after a day or two...never used it again...just used the bath fan timer and the temp controller.



This^^.   Damper open is hot but inefficient. These furnaces should make enough and efficient heat with the damper in the closed position once firebox temps are where they need to be. 

I'm heating 3400 sq ft (too much) with the original Tundra and it does the job 90% of the time and the damper is closed except when the timer forces it open for cold starts/reloads, or the temp control opens if when flue temps drop below the set point.   A few of us (myself included) run a paper clip on the damper door to open the closed position ever so slightly - but that's it.

I don't the use thermostat - but the timer and flue temp control are a must have IMHO.


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## Boilers (Dec 12, 2018)

Do either of you have a link for this temp controller? I know there’s a lot out there... what’s the best one that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 12, 2018)

Click the link on the bottom of this post...that takes you to the glossary of the large Tundra thread...look for the temp controller pages.. IIRC it starts around page 13. I and many others used a Mypin brand with good results. ($20-30) There is another new T2 owner here that just put one on his...I'll see if he wants to share about it. It appeared to me that it's even easier to put on the on the T2 than it was the T1


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## Boilers (Dec 12, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Click the link on the bottom of this post...that takes you to the glossary of the large Tundra thread...look for the temp controller pages.. IIRC it starts around page 13. I and many others used a mypin brand with good results. ($20-30) There is another new T2 owner here that just put one on his...I'll see if he wants to share about it. It appeared to me that it's even easier to put on the on the T2 than it was the T1




Thanks! Funny... I am an automation engineer. I could easily rig up a solution. Problem is, everything I’m familiar with is industrial and costs thousands of dollars. 

PLC, 4-20mA analog input card, 24v output card, thermocouple, few breakers, power supply, panel, few lights, push buttons, maybe an alarm horn... this would be the ticket! It would also cost about $2k. And that’s on the cheap end of the spectrum!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 13, 2018)

I was trying so hard to figure a way of using a linear actuator on the cheap...but once I did it the way that is outlined in the thread, I realized it works so well that there was really no need to search any further. 
I did just recently come across a pretty decent controller with TC input and 4-20 output for $60 though...


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 13, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> I did just recently come across a pretty decent controller with TC input and 4-20 output for $60 though...



These??  

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1


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## brenndatomu (Dec 13, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> These??
> 
> https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1


Yeah, this one https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=651


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## Case1030 (Dec 14, 2018)

Boilers said:


> Do either of you have a link for this temp controller? I know there’s a lot out there... what’s the best one that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg?



Make sure to get a temp controller with two relays if you want to the stove to burn coals down at end of cycle or for low limit temperature. That way you can prevent creosote if not perfectly seasoned wood is used.


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## Case1030 (Dec 14, 2018)

Links for controller and EGT probe

Amazon should be able to cross reference to .com for you.

https://www.amazon.ca/Digital-Temperature-Controller-Control-Fahrenheit/dp/B007MMOEWY

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B076Q9QWD5?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_yo_pop_mb_pd_t2


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## brenndatomu (Dec 23, 2018)

Edit...OOPS!


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## Boilers (Jan 1, 2019)

Well friends, it’s been fairly mild here lately. I’m still tweaking things a bit with my ductwork to get the best output. My controller and thermocouple arrived a few days ago but I haven’t had time to mess with it yet. 

Recently I have been burning lots of elm... and unfortunately, I’ve had tons of “clinkers” getting stuck to the front firebricks. The front 2 are basically destroyed. I have a lot of elm left to burn... anyone think there would be a problem with installing a thick metal plate over the firebricks in the floor? I’m going to replace these firebricks and would really like to keep from destroying them again.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

Leave and inch or two of ash in the bottom...clinkers won't stick, and they hold coals better this way on a long run too


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

What are clinkers?


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## woodey (Jan 1, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> What are clinkers?


the larger golf to baseball size solid embers (I think)


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## brenndatomu (Jan 1, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> What are clinkers?


Kinda like cinders...I'm sure you've seen 'em...hard chunks in the ashes (not unburnt wood) sometimes can be interesting colors


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 1, 2019)

hmmm, I'm not sure.  I don't know what harm they would do....??  Whatever doesn't fall through the grate and into the ashpan (when lighting a fire in a cold furnace), I just move what's there off to the side and load kindling.


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## Boilers (Jan 2, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> hmmm, I'm not sure.  I don't know what harm they would do....??  Whatever doesn't fall through the grate and into the ashpan (when lighting a fire in a cold furnace), I just move what's there off to the side and load kindling.



Clinkers: bits of sand and dirt in (or on) the wood, that melt and turn into a lava-like substance. In my case, the lava is seeping into the voids in the firebrick and becoming permanently attached. They only seep in so far, so the remaining amount protrudes from the brick. Once the fire cools, these clinkers become hard as a rock, and nearly impossible to remove from the brick without damaging the brick.  

Some types of wood tend to have more of this “contamination” than others. Red elm seems to be very bad. These only form when the fire is very hot. All of mine have occurred in front of the ash pan hole, where the combustion air heats the coals.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

I've never had 'em stick to the brick before


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 2, 2019)

Boilers said:


> Clinkers: bits of sand and dirt in (or on) the wood, that melt and turn into a lava-like substance. In my case, the lava is seeping into the voids in the firebrick and becoming permanently attached. They only seep in so far, so the remaining amount protrudes from the brick. Once the fire cools, these clinkers become hard as a rock, and nearly impossible to remove from the brick without damaging the brick.
> 
> Some types of wood tend to have more of this “contamination” than others. Red elm seems to be very bad. These only form when the fire is very hot. All of mine have occurred in front of the ash pan hole, where the combustion air heats the coals.



very interesting.  I've never encountered them, at least that I know of.  I don't burn elm though.


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## maple1 (Jan 2, 2019)

I get a few, burning mostly sugar maple. But they are never a problem, just look like a hard coal in the ash. I also keep a bed of ashes of an inch or two in my box. Really helps protect the refractory.


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## Boilers (Jan 2, 2019)

Images attached


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## Highbeam (Jan 2, 2019)

Here's some of mine. Evergreens have thick bark and tend to make these pretty easily.


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## Boilers (Jan 2, 2019)

New vs old (only 2.5 months of use)


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 2, 2019)

damn! 

Those look to be some pretty porous bricks.  Have you tried a different brand?  How did you cut them?

I've never encountered what you guys have shown.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

Boilers said:


> New vs old (only 2.5 months of use)


Wow, those things look 5 years old!
What's up with the different shape?


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

Boilers said:


> Thanks! Funny... I am an automation engineer. I could easily rig up a solution. Problem is, everything I’m familiar with is industrial and costs thousands of dollars.
> 
> PLC, 4-20mA analog input card, 24v output card, thermocouple, few breakers, power supply, panel, few lights, push buttons, maybe an alarm horn... this would be the ticket! It would also cost about $2k. And that’s on the cheap end of the spectrum!



Depending on what you're trying to accomplish, you can build a highly effective controller for less than that.  I have around $400 in mine including 3 Johnson Control boxes, 8 RIB spdt relays, a homemade enclosure (couldn't find one big enough) and wiring.  A friend offered to design and print a circuit board to the same end, but it's hard to imagine anything working better than what I have.


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Wow, those things look 5 years old!
> What's up with the different shape?



Does burning green wood cause the fire brick to spalt like that?  I bought a used Quadra Fire insert that had little use but the brick were trash, looking like they had all "popped:" on the fire side over and over again.  They were burning unsplit wood that was "seasoned" a year and the firebox looked awful.  

I believe wet wood does cause that kind of damage in the brick but I can't prove it.


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## Boilers (Jan 3, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Wow, those things look 5 years old!
> What's up with the different shape?



Yeah I don’t understand how this is happening at such an extreme. People been burning for years and never had one clinker. I’ve got tons of them! Worst part is... I have probably 2 rick or more of the same wood already cut and split 

I cut the new firebrick myself, so I cut them to fit quite a bit closer than the factory brick. I used an angle grinder with a tile blade. Cut like butter.


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## 3fordasho (Jan 3, 2019)

Boilers said:


> Yeah I don’t understand how this is happening at such an extreme. People been burning for years and never had one clinker. I’ve got tons of them! Worst part is... I have probably 2 rick or more of the same wood already cut and split
> 
> I cut the new firebrick myself, so I cut them to fit quite a bit closer than the factory brick. I used an angle grinder with a tile blade. Cut like butter.




It is the red elm, I get the same thing.   It's great firewood when you find them standing dead, not one spec of bark and bleached from the sun, top half ready to go.  Well worth it despite the clinker issue.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 3, 2019)

Boilers said:


> People been burning for years and never had one clinker. I’ve got tons of them!


Oh I have burnt plenty of wood that makes clinkers...just never had them stick to the bricks before. But might be because I rarely clean the ashes out down to bare bricks....


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## Boilers (Jan 3, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Oh I have burnt plenty of wood that makes clinkers...just never had them stick to the bricks before. But might be because I rarely clean the ashes out down to bare bricks....



Well I religiously pull the coals to the front of the box when reloading, but I also religiously keep the area in front of the bottom front air supply clear. This probably doesn’t help the issue.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 3, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Oh I have burnt plenty of wood that makes clinkers...just never had them stick to the bricks before. But might be because I rarely clean the ashes out down to bare bricks....



really?  I scrape the bricks clean every time when I pull the coals forward....??  You must have a different rake to pull the coals forward.  Mine is the one I got with the furnace, it has a flat edge.



Boilers said:


> Well I religiously pull the coals to the front of the box when reloading, but I also religiously keep the area in front of the bottom front air supply clear. This probably doesn’t help the issue.



yep, same here.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 3, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> really?  I scrape the bricks clean every time when I pull the coals forward....??  You must have a different rake to pull the coals forward.  Mine is the one I got with the furnace, it has a flat edge.
> 
> 
> yep, same here.


I have the factory rake, but mainly use my homemade one...it's a 1/3rd of an old garden rake welded on to a rebar handle...works really well...it doesn't clean the bricks bare though...fine with me


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## woodey (Jan 3, 2019)

bricks scraped clean and coals pulled to within a few inches of the front here


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## sloeffle (Jan 4, 2019)

Boilers said:


> New vs old (only 2.5 months of use)


I have'd my furnace for 8 years and never replaced a brick. I burn some elm but not a lot. We burn mostly ash due to EAB. From looking at your picture it looks like your brick are lot more porous than what I have on my Caddy. I wonder if PSG is cheapening some things up on the Tundra line in order to meet a specific price point.


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## laynes69 (Jan 4, 2019)

I think the lightweight bricks are better for insulation and combustion in the firebox.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 4, 2019)

sloeffle said:


> I wonder if PSG is cheapening some things up on the Tundra line in order to meet a specific price point.


I don't think those are cheaper to buy...actually more.


laynes69 said:


> I think the lightweight bricks are better for insulation and combustion in the firebox.


This...


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## laynes69 (Jan 4, 2019)

For the consumer I think they are more expensive, but for a large company like SBI, I'm sure there's not a significant difference in cost. I heard in the past, they were used to help lower shipping costs of the units, considering it would add up significantly with multiple units. I've considered trying them if I ever found them cheap enough, but I would still use the dense bricks on the floor of the furnace since it's not exposed to the cooling of the blower.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 4, 2019)

Sounds to me even though they may insulate better, they probably are not as durable......compared to the ole' heavy ones.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/regular-and-light-weight-firebrick-differences.92242/


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## sloeffle (Jan 4, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> I think the lightweight bricks are better for insulation and combustion in the firebox.





brenndatomu said:


> This...



I'll keep my Toyota, you guys can have your Ferrari.


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## sloeffle (Jan 4, 2019)

I think this post from @FyreBug awhile ago in the link @JRHAWK9  posted supports my case about them cheapening up the bricks on the Tundra.

regular and light weight firebrick differences

Specifically the last sentence:

"_Since we use both, we are well aware of the properties of either. We use the lightweight bricks for our 'value' brands and the heavier for our premier brands._"


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