# Running without a baffle



## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

OK, so I was reading the thread on this forum about baffles, and decided to educate myself and have a good look at mine.  Looked like it was out of place, which might explain why I've had some difficulty getting the temp up above 350 in the last couple of days.

You can probably figure out the rest.  I poked it gently, and it instantly broke apart and fell into the firebox.

It's Sunday, so can't even call the stove shop to see if they might possibly have one there until tomorrow.

Is it dangerous to run the stove without a baffle?  It's a tiny firebox and a fairly cool-running stove anyway, so although I don't have a flu probe, I doubt there'd be an outrageous temperature going up the flu without it, but I don't know that.

Advice hugely appreciated.  (I do have oil heat back-up, but the tank is getting low so would sure love to be able to use the stove for some heat to help out until I can get a replacement baffle.)


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## begreen (Feb 3, 2013)

That's a bummer, though it does help explain the anemic temps. I'd try and fashion a temporary baffle. Otherwise the heat is just heading straight up the flue. If it is getting the flue pipe consistently over rating, that would be bad.

I'd be tempted to cut a piece of steel 12.5" x 5.675" and slip it in above the burn tubes to serve as a temporary baffle. The thicker the steel the better (within reason). If stainless steel is available that would be good. Keep an eye on it and watch for warping. Stop burning, and remove if warped.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> That's a bummer, though it does help explain the anemic temps. I'd try and fashion a temporary baffle. Otherwise the heat is just heading straight up the flue. If it is getting the flue pipe consistently over rating, that would be bad.
> 
> I'd be tempted to cut a piece of steel 12.5" x 5.675" and slip it in above the burn tubes to serve as a temporary baffle. The thicker the steel the better (within reason). If stainless steel, all the better. Keep an eye on it and watch for warping and stop burning, and remove if warped.


Thanks, BeGreen.  Unfortunately, I have neither a steel sheet nor tools for cutting it.

(FYI, as a very small soapstone stove, 400 to max 450 is about where it cruises anyway.)

I can't remember what the flue is rated for, but it is a fairly new (put in 5 yrs ago) stand-alone insulated high-quality SS pipe, with double-wall flue from stove to where it goes out through the wall just below the ceiling.

Looking carefully at the pieces that fell into the firebox, I see that a good 3/4 of it is intact-- though obviously fragile.  I can't experiment with it until the fire dies down, but would it be worth the trouble to let the stove cool completly and then put that piece back up so there's only about 1/4 of the space that's open?


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## EatenByLimestone (Feb 3, 2013)

I'd put what you can back up.  A spare firebrick or 2 might help also.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 3, 2013)

Were it me I would go to Home Depot and get a sheet of 1/2" Hardibacker, the one without mesh in it, and cut a piece for temporary service until you can get the right board from the dealer.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...hardybacker&storeId=10051#product_description

A member tried it and last I heard it was still OK after a month of burning. No personal experience with it.


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## PLAYS WITH FIRE (Feb 3, 2013)

Maybe get some firebrick like the one that line fireboxes and use them, maybe?


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## begreen (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Were it me I would go to Home Depot and get a sheet of 1/2" Hardibacker, the one without mesh in it, and cut a piece for temporary service until you can get the right board from the dealer.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...hardybacker&storeId=10051#product_description
> 
> A member tried it and last I heard it was still OK after a month of burning. No personal experience with it.


 
Not a bad idea. I would think that even with the fiberglass mesh Durock could work if no Hardibacker is available. Durock Next Gen would have some insulative value as well.

My concern with firebrick is that it might be too thick and restrict flue gases. At 9" long it would also leave a 3.5" gap in front.


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## PLAYS WITH FIRE (Feb 3, 2013)

Yep, what the modes said..


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## velvetfoot (Feb 3, 2013)

That was me and it was the totally unreinforced stuff you use for its r value under a hearth, which I've totally forgotten the name.  It'd be interesting how long something else of a generic, ie cheap, nature would last.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

EatenByLimestone said:


> I'd put what you can back up. A spare firebrick or 2 might help also.


Thanks.  I just did put it back up, so there's now only a couple inches on either side that are open.   Probably less heat going up there than there was with the whole thing tilted up as it apparently has been for several days.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Were it me I would go to Home Depot and get a sheet of 1/2" Hardibacker, the one without mesh in it, and cut a piece for temporary service until you can get the right board from the dealer.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...hardybacker&storeId=10051#product_description
> 
> A member tried it and last I heard it was still OK after a month of burning. No personal experience with it.


Oh, that's a great idea.  If the dealer doesn't have one on hand, I'll do that.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 3, 2013)

Member HeatsTwice was the one I was referring to that used HardiBacker. Might check with him to see how it worked.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Member HeatsTwice was the one I was referring to that used HardiBacker. Might check with him to see how it worked.


Okay you forced me to do a search on my phone, lol.
Here is my thread with Micore.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/need-to-replace-my-quad-2700i-baffle.62141/


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

That Hardiebacker looks like great stuff, if I can cut it to size, which it doesn't look from the comments on the vendor site like it's necessarily all that easy.

I may do that before calling the dealer.  I'm intending to get a bigger stove for next year and will have to give this one away because of various problems (worn down latch lip in the cast door frame, not to mention cosmetic problems and now the baffle), so sounds like it makes more sense to use the very cheap Hardiebacker for the rest of this heating season rather than spending 50 bucks on a new baffle.

Great stuff, guys!  I knew you'd know what to do.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Member HeatsTwice was the one I was referring to that used HardiBacker. Might check with him to see how it worked.


Me no fndee Memberheatstwice, Member Heats Twice or Member Heatstwice in the search box!


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## BrotherBart (Feb 3, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Me no fndee Memberheatstwice, Member Heats Twice or Member Heatstwice in the search box!


 
Member means a member of the forum.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/heatstwice.3677/


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## begreen (Feb 3, 2013)

Cutting Hardibacker or Durock is easy. You just score it heavily with a utility knife on both sides, then snap it up toward you at the score line.


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## velvetfoot (Feb 3, 2013)

The micore lasted a month for me before it fell apart.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Member means a member of the forum.
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/heatstwice.3677/


Arrrggh.  I knew that!! <cough> thank you.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

begreen said:


> Cutting Hardibacker or Durock is easy. You just score it heavily with a utility knife on both sides, then snap it up toward you at the score line.


Oh, good.  Thanks very much.


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## topoftheriver (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Were it me I would go to Home Depot and get a sheet of 1/2" Hardibacker, the one without mesh in it, and cut a piece for temporary service until you can get the right board from the dealer.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...hardybacker&storeId=10051#product_description
> 
> A member tried it and last I heard it was still OK after a month of burning. No personal experience with it.


I'd prefer buying vermiculite and cutting it to size.  It should always work and won't warp.


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## Dix (Feb 3, 2013)

Hang in there, Gyr !!

It'll get done some how !!

Rooting for you, GF !

*I have no other advice*


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## BrotherBart (Feb 3, 2013)

topoftheriver said:


> I'd prefer buying vermiculite and cutting it to size. It should always work and won't warp.


 
And you would run right out this afternoon and buy it where?


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## topoftheriver (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> And you would run right out this afternoon and buy it where?


In most cases you would have to buy it online.  You know that!  But in the meantime, there are solutions for the short term like some temporary sheet metal replacement.  If it need bending, the bend it.  I don't know of any place that sells vermiculite in squares, sheets, or otherwise.  I meant nothing by the suggestion but only as a solution.  But thanks, Bro Bart. It's always nice exchanging ideas, wouldn't you say.


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## Dix (Feb 3, 2013)

topoftheriver said:


> In most cases you would have to buy it online. You know that! But in the meantime, there are solutions for the short term like some temporary sheet metal replacement. If it need bending, the bend it. I don't know of any place that sells vermiculite in squares, sheets, or otherwise. I meant nothing by the suggestion but only as a solution. But thanks, Bro Bart. It's always nice exchanging ideas, wouldn't you say.


 
Gyr is a woman, living in the mountains in Vermont... ain't gonna happen too quickly.


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## HeatsTwice (Feb 3, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Member HeatsTwice was the one I was referring to that used HardiBacker. Might check with him to see how it worked.


 Hi,

HardiBacker will last a few days until you get a replacement. I would double it up if I were you.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 3, 2013)

HeatsTwice said:


> Hi,
> 
> HardiBacker will last a few days until you get a replacement. I would double it up if I were you.


Oh, there you are!  One sheet will make a number of baffles for my small stove, so I will do as you suggest if it slips in there easy, and if not just be ready to keep replacing it.  I really don't want to spend 50 for a repacement for a stove I'm only going to be running another couple of months and then be getting rid of.

Thanks for pioneering on the subject.  How long did yours last?


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## HeatsTwice (Feb 4, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Oh, there you are! One sheet will make a number of baffles for my small stove, so I will do as you suggest if it slips in there easy, and if not just be ready to keep replacing it. I really don't want to spend 50 for a repacement for a stove I'm only going to be running another couple of months and then be getting rid of.
> 
> Thanks for pioneering on the subject. How long did yours last?


 
Averaged about 6 days burning 24/7. Keep an eye on them though. Once they are in the stove and used for a while they get pretty brittle and just cleaning the ashes out will crack them if hit with the poker. You don't want to run your stove without some type of baffle.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

HeatsTwice said:


> Averaged about 6 days burning 24/7. Keep an eye on them though. Once they are in the stove and used for a while they get pretty brittle and just cleaning the ashes out will crack them if hit with the poker. You don't want to run your stove without some type of baffle.


Wow, that's much shorter than I was hoping for.

Was this in the Napoleon 1900?  Do you remember what temperatures you were running at?  Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I'm hoping that it'll last a good bit longer in mine because my firebox is about a third the size of the Napoleon and the cruising temperature maxes out around 400.  (I can get it higher than that, but only with a lot of trouble and very small splits and then only for a short time.)


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## ddahlgren (Feb 4, 2013)

I would think most any small town has someone around withing a 10 or 15 mile radius that can cut some metal with a torch band saw something and might have a piece of steel to make a baffle. Think out of the box a farm a boiler repair place junk yard steel salvage place. Bring a cardboard template and say I need one of these and bring a piece of the old one so they have some idea how thick to make it. If th3e dealer has to order one there will be all sorts of shipping charges for your 'special' order etc and possibly a long wait as over night air on steel is wildly expensive. You will spend a good deal changing the hard rock one every week and what happens if it fails while you are sleeping? Run away? house full of smoke if it falls into the fire and makes it smolder all night?


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## begreen (Feb 4, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Wow, that's much shorter than I was hoping for.
> 
> Was this in the Napoleon 1900? Do you remember what temperatures you were running at? Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I'm hoping that it'll last a good bit longer in mine because my firebox is about a third the size of the Napoleon and the cruising temperature maxes out around 400. (I can get it higher than that, but only with a lot of trouble and very small splits and then only for a short time.)


 
This should only be thought of as a temporary repair. In the meantime order one to be sent to you or picked up at your local Hearthstone dealer.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

ddahlgren said:


> I would think most any small town has someone around withing a 10 or 15 mile radius that can cut some metal with a torch band saw something and might have a piece of steel to make a baffle. Think out of the box a farm a boiler repair place junk yard steel salvage place. Bring a cardboard template and say I need one of these and bring a piece of the old one so they have some idea how thick to make it. If th3e dealer has to order one there will be all sorts of shipping charges for your 'special' order etc and possibly a long wait as over night air on steel is wildly expensive. You will spend a good deal changing the hard rock one every week and what happens if it fails while you are sleeping? Run away? house full of smoke if it falls into the fire and makes it smolder all night?


Thanks for the suggestion, but doing all that running around and finding this and that and somebody to do the other is more trouble than the $50 for the baffle is worth.  And geez, I don't know why the fire would smolder if a temp one broke or fell down, nor why that would cause an airtight stove to belch smoke into the house.


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## DanCorcoran (Feb 4, 2013)

You said you plan on selling the stove, so you may as well get the baffle now and use it yourself.  No one would want to buy a stove without a baffle, or with a makeshift one.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

DanCorcoran said:


> You said you plan on selling the stove, so you may as well get the baffle now and use it yourself. No one would want to buy a stove without a baffle, or with a makeshift one.


No, not selling it, giving it away.  There are too many things on it that need fixing to ask anybody for $$ for it.


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## ddahlgren (Feb 4, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but doing all that running around and finding this and that and somebody to do the other is more trouble than the $50 for the baffle is worth. And geez, I don't know why the fire would smolder if a temp one broke or fell down, nor why that would cause an airtight stove to belch smoke into the house.


 
Then the 50 a gift... what is the heat worth between now and you give it away might be the only other question.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

ddahlgren said:


> Then the 50 a gift... what is the heat worth between now and you give it away might be the only other question.


Well, so far, it's doing OK with 3/4 of a baffle-- not getting to the peak heat I can get out of this tiny stove with my best firewood split way down and perfect timing of air, reloads, etc., but since it's February already, I can live with being slightly chillier than usual on the coldest evenings for a few weeks.  I'm thinking the 3/4 baffle with a slab of that Hardibacker behind it should do pretty well, since only the far inch or so on each side of the baffle would be unprotected Hardibacker.  We'll see how it goes.


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## HeatsTwice (Feb 4, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Wow, that's much shorter than I was hoping for.
> 
> Was this in the Napoleon 1900? Do you remember what temperatures you were running at? Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but I'm hoping that it'll last a good bit longer in mine because my firebox is about a third the size of the Napoleon and the cruising temperature maxes out around 400. (I can get it higher than that, but only with a lot of trouble and very small splits and then only for a short time.)


 
Yes this was in the Napoleon 1900. I ran hot well above 400 all the time. You should see longer times. Plus if its smaller, it will be stronger.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

HeatsTwice said:


> Yes this was in the Napoleon 1900. I ran hot well above 400 all the time. You should see longer times. Plus if its smaller, it will be stronger.


That's what I figured.  As above, about 3/4 of the baffle (lengthwise) is intact, so I'm thinking if I put a piece of the Hardibacker behind it, the real baffle will take the bulk of the heat and support the Hardibacker stuff except for an inch or two on each end.  I'm just super-reluctant to put any more money than necessary into this stove to get me through this heating season since I can't sell it in good conscience anyway but will have to give it away.  If somebody can get a working stove for the price of a new baffle, it'll be an incredibly good deal for them.


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## begreen (Feb 4, 2013)

As long as you are up front about the issues you shouldn't have qualms about selling it. I would sell the stove with full disclosure for at least $200. The parts and stones are worth more than that. I think it will sell quickly.


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## gyrfalcon (Feb 4, 2013)

begreen said:


> As long as you are up front about the issues you shouldn't have qualms about selling it. I would sell the stove with full disclosure for at least $200. The parts and stones are worth more than that. I think it will sell quickly.


Great advice.  Thanks, I'll give that a shot. Now that I think of it, there are a number of reconditioned stove sellers who post to Craigslist in this area.


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## Central NH (Mar 2, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Great advice. Thanks, I'll give that a shot. Now that I think of it, there are a number of reconditioned stove sellers who post to Craigslist in this area.


In my 1900 after replacing them 3 times the stove shop told me to just use stove bricks instead of that fiberboard looking stuff.  the bricks lasted 4 yrs before I converted to pellets.


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 2, 2013)

Central NH said:


> In my 1900 after replacing them 3 times the stove shop told me to just use stove bricks instead of that fiberboard looking stuff. the bricks lasted 4 yrs before I converted to pellets.


Hmmm? Your 1900 what? I don't think they make firebricks that would fit in my Tribute. The baffle is 10.5 by 5.5 inches.

I did end up cutting a couple out of a sheet of Hardiebacker, but they only lasted a couple days before developing a big crack in the middle, so I ended up slogging up to the dealer and getting an Official Authorized Baffle replacement for about 35 bucks. While I was there, I bought a bigger stove for next year!


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## Dix (Mar 2, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Hmmm? Your 1900 what? I don't think they make firebricks that would fit in my Tribute. The baffle is 10.5 by 5.5 inches.
> 
> I did end up using cutting I cut out of a sheet of Hardiebacker, but they only lasted a couple days before developing a big crack in the middle, so I ended up slogging up to the dealer and getting an Official Authorized Baffle replacement for about 35 bucks. While I was there, I bought a bigger stove for next year!


 

Rock on Gyr !

What did ya get?


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 2, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> Rock on Gyr !
> 
> What did ya get?


Thanks!  I got a Homestead, which after spending 40 minutes or so with the salesman was clear was the only stove that would work in my set-up without really major reworking of the hearth and the flue.  Since the Tribute alllllmmmmost does the job, I'm thinking the Homestead is just enough bigger to do me right.  I'm really mortally tired of being chilly for half the winter, I can tell you that.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 3, 2013)

I predict a much happier winter for you next year.  

Matt


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## colin.p (Mar 3, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Hmmm? Your 1900 what? I don't think they make firebricks that would fit in my Tribute. The baffle is 10.5 by 5.5 inches.
> 
> I did end up cutting a couple out of a sheet of Hardiebacker, but they only lasted a couple days before developing a big crack in the middle, so I ended up slogging up to the dealer and getting an Official Authorized Baffle replacement for about 35 bucks. While I was there, I bought a bigger stove for next year!


 
That is why I try to stay far away from Stove stores. I could see me come out with a new stove also. At least you have your issue resolved for the remainder of this year and the following years as well.


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 3, 2013)

colin.p said:


> That is why I try to stay far away from Stove stores. I could see me come out with a new stove also. At least you have your issue resolved for the remainder of this year and the following years as well.


Yeah, it's like being a kid in a candy store, isn't it?  When I bought this little stove secondhand from neighbors who were moving, I was only intending to use it occasionally in the evenings for fun.  Then the price of oil went through the roof and my income plummeted, and I had to ask it to do something it just isn't intended to do.  It's done its best, but I'm increasingly ground down by the hassle and decided to raid the retirement account to get a bigger one.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 3, 2013)

If the new stove is the right one for the task it may give you a better return and make a more comfortable retirement than leaving the money in the account would do.  Especially if you aren't paying for oil at $4/gallon.  The compounded returns may be huge.  

Matt


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 3, 2013)

EatenByLimestone said:


> If the new stove is the right one for the task it may give you a better return and make a more comfortable retirement than leaving the money in the account would do. Especially if you aren't paying for oil at $4/gallon. The compounded returns may be huge.
> 
> Matt


For sure more comfortable and less stressful.  I don't use more than a couple hundred gallons of oil a year as it is, but at these prices, even cutting that only by 50 percent does save some bucks.  But more importantly, it's always good to have the right tool for the job!


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## Central NH (Mar 3, 2013)

gyrfalcon said:


> Hmmm? Your 1900 what? I don't think they make firebricks that would fit in my Tribute. The baffle is 10.5 by 5.5 inches.
> 
> I did end up cutting a couple out of a sheet of Hardiebacker, but they only lasted a couple days before developing a big crack in the middle, so I ended up slogging up to the dealer and getting an Official Authorized Baffle replacement for about 35 bucks. While I was there, I bought a bigger stove for next year!


My napoleon1900 wood stove a standard fire brick is 4 1/2 x 9 I used 4 on each side of my 1900.  You can have any stove shop or tile guy cut your brick to the 5 1/2 that you need and they make a 2 1/4 x 9 also so they could cut that to length also.  I think the orig. fiber one in my 1900 was 4 x  9x9 2 for each side.


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## gyrfalcon (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh, I see.  Gotcha.  Well, problem solved for this stove now, but I'll keep that in mind in case I find a way to kill the one in my new stove at some point.


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