# BEER TO ENERGY



## JustWood (Apr 24, 2009)

http://www.biomassmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=2540

I wonder if after all the process' , the dried waste could be made into pellets?????


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## Jags (Apr 24, 2009)

Lee - you are correct.  The waste product from major distillers (even ethanol plants) is commonly referred to as DDG's (dried distiller grains).  In its "wet" form, it is pretty perishable, but can be feed to animals if they are located close by.  It is used like a food additive for cattle and must be mixed with their normal food diet.  Most distillers dry them.  This can now be shipped (most goes to China), and used for cattle feed.

Thats where the rub comes in....it is pretty highly valued as cattle feed, and does have a true "worth".  Probably much higher than if turned into pellets.

I have tried to talk our local ethanol plant (I know all the upper management) into using the DDG's as a fuel source for an electricity plant that can be located right on site.  I have been told that the DDG's are worth more as critter food.

But the fact remains...they CAN be turned into pellets or bricks or whatever.  Basically the grains have given up the starches and sugars, but still retains much of the energy in the form of solids (think hulls and fiber).


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## JustWood (Apr 24, 2009)

My neighbor buys distillers for his cattle. Don't know what the cost is , I'll have to ask. When it is dumped on his feedlot mixing pad it spreads out like oatmeal.

Have been reading also that waste from cellulosic ethanol process' can be used to make paper. Seems like these technologies should be on a fast track. Guess we will see.


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## Jags (Apr 24, 2009)

NAMELESSLEE said:
			
		

> My neighbor buys distillers for his cattle. Don't know what the cost is , I'll have to ask. When it is dumped on his feedlot mixing pad it *spreads out like oatmeal*.



Yep, thats the wet stuff and has a pretty short shelf life.  Being wet, he probably gets it for a decent price because the time and energy that is normally used to dry it was bypassed.


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## begreen (Apr 25, 2009)

Beer can turn me into a biogas processor if I'm not careful. But I do like a well-crafted brew none-the-less. 

We have a local tofu factory that can't deal with all the soybean remains. Got to be a way to convert that to fuel too.


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## newstove (Apr 25, 2009)

I have found the best way to turn beer into energy is to make sure those that I know who give me free wood get beer in return.  Wood tends to show up more often that way, which is energy to heat my home, and thus I'm turning that beer into energy.

;-)


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## peakbagger (Apr 26, 2009)

Anerobic Digestion works real well at converting the starches in the grain but really doesnt work that well with Cellulose. There are a lot of research labs spending a lot of money coming up with the right microbe that can economically break down the cellulose into a simpler sugar that digests well. When they find the right "bug" and the right process  and commericialize it, the use of corn for Ethanol is rapidly going to become history.  Look up the term Celluosic Ethanol on the web and you can get a lot more info.


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## mbcijim (Apr 26, 2009)

Jags said:
			
		

> Lee - you are correct.  The waste product from major distillers (even ethanol plants) is commonly referred to as DDG's (dried distiller grains).  In its "wet" form, it is pretty perishable, but can be feed to animals if they are located close by.  It is used like a food additive for cattle and must be mixed with their normal food diet.  Most distillers dry them.  This can now be shipped (most goes to China), and used for cattle feed.
> 
> Thats where the rub comes in....it is pretty highly valued as cattle feed, and does have a true "worth".  Probably much higher than if turned into pellets.
> 
> ...



Jags, I've understood what DDG's where for a while.  I also understand the production of this stuff is enormous at the ethanol plants.  I've never found info on who buys it.  

Why is it shipped to China?  I imagined it was always shipped to nearby animal farmers.  I figured that the same train cars or trucks that brought in the corn took out the DDG.  

I'm curious about it, anything you could tell me would be great!


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## EatenByLimestone (Apr 27, 2009)

The byproducts can be used to melt ice too.  I've heard it's better than salt. 

Matt


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## Jags (Apr 27, 2009)

mbcijim said:
			
		

> Jags, I've understood what DDG's where for a while.  I also understand the production of this stuff is enormous at the ethanol plants.  I've never found info on who buys it.
> 
> Why is it shipped to China?  I imagined it was always shipped to nearby animal farmers.  I figured that the same train cars or trucks that brought in the corn took out the DDG.
> 
> I'm curious about it, anything you could tell me would be great!



Most corn comes to the plants via truck and rail, and most DDGs leave the plant in container ships destined for over seas shipment.  Typically, it would take several HUGE farms to handle the DDGs off of a single ethanol plant.  And the reality is that China pays pretty good money for the stuff (or so I have been told).

Its actually the back end products (and Gov't subsidies, but that is another thread), that keeps the plants floating.

The other part of this equation that many don't realize is that the corn belt is no longer the cow belt.  It used to be that every farmer had some cattle (maybe 20 head, or 80 or whatever), but that is becoming rarer.  Because of costs, less corn is feed to cattle than in the past.  The stuff that I get butchered from my sister (still has cattle) is WAY different than the stuff in the stores.  Mostly because my sisters cattle has a fair amount of corn in its diet.  This all comes into play when you have a huge amount of DDGs to get rid of.


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## pbvermont (Apr 28, 2009)

Aren't cows supposed to eat grass? Cows are grazing animals,  they can be put in a nice field of grass and they will eat it and thrive.  OR you can spend a lot of money, plant corn and use lots of equipment and petro-chemicals to haul the feed to the cows (rather than them harvesting their own food) .  Or you can feed them brewery draff, or ethanol by-product, waste Dunkin' Donuts etc.  Its a weird world.


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## mbcijim (Apr 28, 2009)

Jags said:
			
		

> Most corn comes to the plants via truck and rail, and most DDGs leave the plant in container ships destined for over seas shipment.  Typically, it would take several HUGE farms to handle the DDGs off of a single ethanol plant.  And the reality is that China pays pretty good money for the stuff (or so I have been told).
> 
> Its actually the back end products (and Gov't subsidies, but that is another thread), that keeps the plants floating.
> 
> The other part of this equation that many don't realize is that the corn belt is no longer the cow belt.  It used to be that every farmer had some cattle (maybe 20 head, or 80 or whatever), but that is becoming rarer.  Because of costs, less corn is feed to cattle than in the past.  The stuff that I get butchered from my sister (still has cattle) is WAY different than the stuff in the stores.  Mostly because my sisters cattle has a fair amount of corn in its diet.  This all comes into play when you have a huge amount of DDGs to get rid of.



When you say they leave the plant via container ships... do you mean the ubiqtous sea-land-air containers?  
I always thought they were shipped to our own factory farms.  
So what are we feeding our cows if we aren't feeding them DDG or corn?
I was also wondering why they don't put the factory farms right next to the source of the DDG?


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## Jags (Apr 29, 2009)

pbvermont said:
			
		

> Aren't cows supposed to eat grass? Cows are grazing animals,  they can be put in a nice field of grass and they will eat it and thrive.  OR you can spend a lot of money, plant corn and use lots of equipment and petro-chemicals to haul the feed to the cows (rather than them harvesting their own food) .  Or you can feed them brewery draff, or ethanol by-product, waste Dunkin' Donuts etc.  Its a weird world.



Yep, cows can survive solely on grazing, if you like that, then make sure you get that tough crap that comes from Australia.  Good beef should at least be "finished" with corn.  It makes a HUGE difference.  As a side note, if you have ever eaten venison that was taken from scrub land and compared that to Northern Il, S WI, or Iowa,  the difference in the corn feed diet is VERY noticeable.


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## Jags (Apr 29, 2009)

mbcijim said:
			
		

> When you say they leave the plant via container ships... do you mean the ubiqtous sea-land-air containers?
> I always thought they were shipped to our own factory farms.
> So what are we feeding our cows if we aren't feeding them DDG or corn?
> I was also wondering why they don't put the factory farms right next to the source of the DDG?



Yep, those are the containers I am talking about.
I am sure that some hit locally, but I think you will find the majority to be shipped over seas.  At least from the plants around here (the mighty Mississippi is pretty local, and makes for a good shipping lane).

Cows aren't very majestic animals, they will pretty much eat whatever biomass is tossed in front of them.  The kicker is what you want the end product to be.  If you know any farmers that fill their own freezers, you will find that typically, they will hand raise the couple that are feeding THEIR family.

There is some logic in locating a farm next door, but if you look at the logistics of a cattle farm, it is not an easy proposition.  Land, waste, energy, smell, cost....just to name a few.


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