# LP Tankless Water Heaters



## Arnold (Feb 17, 2009)

Who has one ?? 

Likes / Dislikes ?  

How long do you wait for hot water ? 

I need to upgrade my water heater this summer (2 teens......... long showers = no water left for me !)

Any brands to stay away from ? 

I'm looking for a electronic ignition model with no standing pilot. 

Need a size recommendation for a 2 1/2 bath house, for use where 2 showers will be on at the same time.

Thanks in advance !

Arnold


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## MaineMike100 (Feb 17, 2009)

I have a Bosch tankless and I've been happy with it.  There are a few things to get used to:  The wait for hot water is slightly longer than it was with the previous tank heater.  I think this is just due to the slight delay while the heater starts up.  It's not excessive just noticeable.  The other issue is opening the faucet only slightly sometimes is not enough to trigger the heater.  If you open the tap 1/2 way or more, no problem.  

Be sure to get a heater with a large enough capacity if you plan to run two showers at the same time.  I went with a smaller model designed for only one device.  This is definately evident when two sinks are turned on at the same time.  Some of the capacity charts are slightly misleading.  For example my model was rated at something like 4.6 gallons per min.  If you read the fine print, that's at 45 degree rise.   In my area the real need is something like 75 degree rise (45 degree well water to 120 degree desired temp.).  At that use mine is rated for 2.5 gpm or so, just adequate for one use.  

All in all I am happy with it, just would choose a larger model if I had it to do over.  All of the other hype, no standby loss, continuous hot water etc. is true in my experience and well worth the change.


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## jdemaris (Feb 17, 2009)

Arnold said:
			
		

> Who has one ??
> 
> Likes / Dislikes ?
> 
> ...



There are as many disadvantages as advantages.  Can be very costly to install due to venting, pipe size requirements for gas and high volume regulators, etc.   Also, a tankless is basically no more effeicient than a tank heater when it comes to heating the water.   Advantage is no loss of heat energy in storage which isn't very much in a tank anyway.   Big advantage to a tankless is the ability to heat water where needed instead of sending it long distances in pipes.  If you plan on installing a centrally located tankless, you're probably wasting your money.

Also keep in mind that most tankless heaters do not heat water to a specifed temp - only work by temp rise.   That's why most will not work correctly if you have preheated water from a wood stove or solar collector. Also not very good if your water is from a cold well or spring.

A well insulated electric tank heater only loses 1/2 of 1% of its heat every hour. That's not very much.
A 40 gallon tank heater loses 5 gallons of hot water a day.

Do your research.  Many of the claims for tankless heaters are hype.   For many installations, they are a waste of time and money.


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## TomB (Feb 25, 2009)

check out www.foreverhotwater.com 

Rinnai makes an excellent heater.  82% efficient  
Standard water heater 59% efficient

The Rinnai will qualify for the new 2009-2010 federal tax rebates. www.energystar.gov

I have a Rinnai R75LSi tankless heater and propane. It will last 20 years or more. Parts are modular. Service is available. Purchase it , install it and save on your propane. clean it as the manufacturer suggests and you will have no problems.

FYI: Propane is 3.9 times the cost per therm as natural gas. 

One benefit that outweighs the initial cost is that you can fill your big bath tub and use it. Take a long shower, do laundry, the dishes etc...



Just my 2 cents.


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## Later (Mar 1, 2009)

Went to a seminar the other hosted by a company that install tankless and tank type. They will not do electric tankless in upstate NY (need 145A just for heater). Savings with natural gas $15-$25/ month. Propane needs at least 250 gal propane tank. Needs new venting. For me the savings weren't worth it.


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## velvetfoot (Mar 2, 2009)

I was at the home and garden show in Saratoga yesterday and talked to a guy from Aird Dorance about the whole house gas tankless heater from Korea they had on display.  It was very efficient and had plastic intake and exhaust pipes.  We currrently have indirect oil fired hot water and are very happy with the amount of hot water, but not sure about the cost.


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## ohbie1 (Mar 2, 2009)

I have a Bosch Aquastar 125HX (now goes by a different number), propane, pilotless ignition.  It cost 600 with a 300 tax credit, cheaper than a tank.  I've had it for two yrs. and, after some tweaking, we are happy with it.  No gas sucking pilot means you are saving 24/7 except when in use.  It takes somewhat longer for the HW to show up because, unlike with a tank heater,  there is no HW that has migrated (and wasted) up into your pipes, so you are actually waiting for it to arrive from the HW heater.  I have a 2 1/2 bath house, kids are grown, but we do have stay over company and no problems.
You can vent them with PVC out the side of the house with a power venter that they sell.


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## dryttri (Apr 8, 2009)

I have a Rheem 7.4 (paloma) and it has performed quite well. 
The factory support is very good and is located in the US.
I did have the remote temp control go bad but the heater still worked by disconnecting it.
The parts to fix it showed up the next day (they gave me a new control PCB also).
The warrantee is 1yr parts and labor, 5yr parts and 12yr on the exchanger.
Get EXP valves for the inlet / outlet fittings, they make maintenance a breeze.
Check out http://www.tankless.com/waiwelaph28ri.html
They have nice packages put together.
If you live at an elevation above 3600 ft you will need the altitude adjustment chip.
It is just a little PCB that plugs in next to the internal control board.
They sent me the training manual for this unit which helps understand error codes etc.
I have been using tankless water heaters for over 30 years now.
The Bosch units are OK but I like the Paloma much more.
You can get them at Home Depot also.
Venting can get costly, try to have the heater mounted to the outside wall and the vent goes a straight through to the outside.
Make sure that you have 1" gas pipe as close as possible to the heater and run 3/4" to it (short as possible)
This heater has a 200,000 BTU burner and you do not want to starve it.
The unit handles a shower and dishwashing with no problem.
Just realize that the ratings are based on temp rise (45 deg) over the inlet water temp.
If you are on a well there is a cleaning kit available to flush them out. See the web site for it. 
The unit has a sensor to tell you that it needs cleaning.

Hope this helps -


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## dryttri (Apr 8, 2009)

Yup -

Imaganine the kids and grand kids (8 of them girls) and endless hot water.
The unit steped up and delivered.


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## Arnold (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks for the replies........Our local Menards  changed over to selling Richmond brand & was closing out the Bosch line at less than cost. Ended up with one & they even honored a 10% off Lowes card I had.

So far so good..........My kids haven't run me outta hot water yet !!


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## rowerwet (Sep 11, 2009)

I've got a paloma tankless, I put it in myself a few years ago. It has the remote for exact water temp setting, I have the remote in the bathroom within reach of the shower. I love not fooling around with cold water faucet, and not having to worry about the kids (4&6 scalding themselves in the shower.
I don't think it takes any longer to make hot water, but am not sure, if it does it isn't enough more to care about. If you want to preheat the water with a wood boiler make sure the water heater can take the higher temp, some can't.


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## ChrisNJ (Oct 16, 2009)

Finishing another room in my basement I figured I would get one to make the room bigger by removing the tank, unfortunatly I did not take into consideration the cost of having the thing installed $1800.00, so my additional 6sf cost me 3k total :-( I like the heater though http://www.tanklesswaters.com/product.asp?product=2700ES-LP


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## NEDLAX (Oct 31, 2009)

jdemaris said:
			
		

> Arnold said:
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Where are you getting your info I rate energy usage for new construction homes, yes water heaters have come a long way but not even close to tankless water heaters I reccomend rinnias. that is like leaving your lights on 24/7 saying they're cfls it doesnt matter im not wasting that much. your still wasting feul when you could not be. I know plumbers dont like installing them because they dont rust out. yes there is a delay but do your jump in the shower and then turn on the water or do you turn it on first.  Mine has a temperature setting so does the one at my office 120 and 110. yes electric is cheap now but can you say it will be in 5 years. the installtion is more but w/ tax credits its worth the investment in my book.


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