# Powering a welder



## Skier76 (Sep 23, 2010)

Because I don't have enough on my plate....

I'm kicking around getting a cheapo Harbor Freight welder. 1) I've always wanted to weld, 2) I have a few projects (albeit very small ones) in my head I'd like to do. 

I was talking with buddy who used to be into off-roading and had a rig he worked on. He was using a small welder plugged into a household outlet. He said it never got hot enough. He mentioned something about using the 220 plug for your dryer, with some type of adapter/stepdown. Anyone heard of this? I tried googling, but I didn't come up with much. I don't think I'm using the correct terminology. 

Here's what I'd be looking at for a welder: 
http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-98871.html

Plan B:
http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/arc-welders/80-amp-inverter-arc-welder-91110.html



And I know this will come up: "Skier, what do you want to weld?"

I want to tack some nuts to my mower deck and fix a small crack on the deck. 

I'd also like to fab up a custom hitch for my ATV; taking an existing ATV square hitch, and weld some channels to the bottom so I can bolt it to the rear diff.


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## Badfish740 (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm not an electrician (or a welder) but here's what I know.  Generally, most higher powered welders (the ones that go up to about 200 amps or so) require 220 volts as opposed to the 110 volts you get out of a regular wall socket.  220 volt plugs are totally different animals from regular 110 volt wall plugs and are not compatible.  Most electric stoves and electric dryers require 220 volts as well, so for many folks, this is the only 220 volt outlet in their home which is probably why you got that suggestion.  The problem is that unless you're going to be welding in the kitchen or laundry room  you're SOL.  The extension cord you would need (and you can do this-my dad has a 100' cord for a welder that he picked up at an estate sale) to get the power to a place where you could use it would probably cost more than the welder if bought new because it's extremely heavy and the price of copper is high these days.  Not to mention the hassle of unplugging the dryer or stove every time you want to weld.  All that being said from what you're talking about doing (and I'll defer to the experts on this) I think you'll be fine.  You won't be able to weld 3/8" plate but you can certainly tack on nuts and do light duty fabrication I would think.


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## RSNovi (Sep 23, 2010)

You can weld quite well with a 110V Mig welder.  I took a welding class once and the instructor built a utility trailer with one and he recommended to all of the students to just buy a 110V welder for home occasional use.  He recommended a Lincoln or Miller.

I would probably suggest using a 20A 110V circuit to operate it.

Since running a 220V outlet in the garage was quite easy, I opted for a 220V Miller welder.

Chris


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## firefighterjake (Sep 23, 2010)

My Dad used to do some welding in his old house . . . he had an actual 220volt outlet that he installed in the garage running to the circuit breaker just so he could use his welder . . . if you think you want to do some occasional welding I don't know if this would be the best option . . .


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## ironpony (Sep 23, 2010)

with newer technology, 110 volt mig welders are very efficient and cost effective for home use
lincoln makes several that a homeowner could use, and are flux wire, some will weld 1/4 inch plate which
is really quite heavy in comparison to what a DIY will run into, just look around at your mower,  tractor, lawn trailer 
there is nothing near a 1/4 inch thick on them.
Ya I know bigger is better and the diehard welders will frown on these units
you are going to get lots of opinions, I have a 110 lincoln and a larger miller
and it is really nice to be able to put the 110 unit in the truck and take it wherever I need to, everyone has a 20 amp circuit
and rarely anything over a 1/4 inch to weld


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## Skier76 (Sep 23, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I think if I get into it more, I'd step up and get a beefier unit. But for just playing around and a small investment, I think a plug in 110 will work. 

Now the only issue I see with that HF unit(the first one I posted the link to) is it's rated for 23 amps. That seems like a really random number. I'm not an electrician, but I've never seen a 23 amp breaker. 

Regardless, I'll check at home tonight and see if the plug in the garage is hooked up to a 20amp breaker. Knowing my luck, it'll be a 15...and all the 20's will be the kitchen or bathrooms.  :lol: 

"Hon, can you dry your hair in the garage...I need to fab this hitch up for the ATV....."


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## vvvv (Sep 23, 2010)

check welder specs to determine how thick a steel it can handle. i'd push 23A on a 20A breaker be4 changing it to 30A because i think the wire would have to accomodate 30A also. if u put a 30A breaker on a 20A wire [12 gauge] the wire will overheat be4 the breaker trips.


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## semipro (Sep 24, 2010)

Skier76 said:
			
		

> Because I don't have enough on my plate....
> 
> I'm kicking around getting a cheapo Harbor Freight welder. 1) I've always wanted to weld, 2) I have a few projects (albeit very small ones) in my head I'd like to do.
> 
> ...



I do exactly what you're saying with my 220 volt MIG welder.  I plug in 50 ft. of Romex into a dryer outlet and run it to my garage temporarily.   I can't remember what gauge Romex but you'll need to size it correctly.   I previously had a 110 volt MIG welder and found it practically useless for the welding I needed to do.


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## festerw (Sep 24, 2010)

I've got a 110v Hobart 140, it's got plenty of juice for smaller projects.  If you're planning on doing any welding on sheet metal spring for a more expensive machine that uses gas the flux core wire just makes a mess of sheet.


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## madrone (Sep 24, 2010)

A good 110v welder on a 20amp circuit with nothing else on it will comfortably weld up to about 3/16". I'm not that fond of flux core, but it gets the job done. The main thing is not to expect too much. Under 3/16" you'll be fine. Clean the area before welding, keep your stickout short, and don't move too fast.
Personally, I really enjoy welding with 220v and gas.


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## begreen (Sep 24, 2010)

The HF unit looks ok, but has a high current draw, greater than the average home 120v circuit. We used this Sears welder on a number of projects over the construction two steel hulled sailing yachts. It stood up well to a wide-variety of tasks. All on a 220v 20 a circuit. Nice little unit. 
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920568000P


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## Skier76 (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks so much guys! There's some great information here. BeGreen...figures, the sears.com and craftsman.com sites are down this AM. I'll check that link you posted a bit later. 

Again, I'm certainly not looking into building my own double axle trailer or custom ATV frames. But I've had so many instances of "If I only had a welder, I could fix that / fab it up myself."


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## nate379 (Sep 24, 2010)

Not hard to wire a pigtail to plug into the dryer.  I have done it before, dryer or stove.

I have 2 240v outlets in my garage now though.  One for the welder and the other for the plasma cutter.


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## oldspark (Sep 24, 2010)

NATE379 said:
			
		

> Not hard to wire a pigtail to plug into the dryer.  I have done it before, dryer or stove.
> 
> I have 2 240v outlets in my garage now though.  One for the welder and the other for the plasma cutter.


 As long as the welder will work on a 30 amp circuit (most dryers are 30 amp) if you get a bigger welder they need 50 amp or more, I believe an electric range has a bigger circuit (40 or 50 amp?) there are plenty of welders that work on 30 amp so just something to keep in mind.


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## Adios Pantalones (Sep 24, 2010)

I had 250V in my shed (former owner used it in his firewood business... also worked clearing roads for the state- go figger).  I run a Lincoln tombstone off of it, and made my own extension cord for it (probably heavily over-engineered).

I needed a serious welder capable of building bridges because of my kiln project, but know plenty of people that are not hampered at all by using a lil mig  welder like that.  

You can buy good name brand ones and all the accessories at Home Despot.  I sometimes think about converting to one because then I could power it with my generator and take it wherever I needed


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## Badfish740 (Sep 24, 2010)

oldspark said:
			
		

> NATE379 said:
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My dryer is 30A-Range is 50A.


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## Wallyworld (Sep 24, 2010)

Skier76 said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone. I think if I get into it more, I'd step up and get a beefier unit. But for just playing around and a small investment, I think a plug in 110 will work.
> 
> Now the only issue I see with that HF unit(the first one I posted the link to) is it's rated for 23 amps. That seems like a really random number. I'm not an electrician, but I've never seen a 23 amp breaker.
> 
> ...


 what you want to look at is duty cycle. I doubt the duty cycle on a HF mig is more than 10%, which means it can't weld 90% of the time or you'll burn it up


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## jebatty (Sep 24, 2010)

About 3 years ago I bought a Lincoln MIG 215, operates off a 50A-240V circuit. I picked this because, like most things, a guy wishes he had gotten the next larger size. This has been a life-saver for a person living in a rural area. Things, break; I can fix them. Also have made things out of steel that I never would have considered in the past. I also can take it into the field and operate it off my 5500W-240V generator, which really came in handy when I had a breakdown out in the woods. I don't use it a lot, but when needed, it is essential.


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## nate379 (Sep 24, 2010)

175-180 amp welder would run on a 30 amp circuit fine.

I have a Lincoln 175 and it hasn't failed me yet.  I don't normally weld over 1/4", though on occasion have welded 3/8" with it.


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## burntime (Sep 25, 2010)

Had a lincoln 120v and it was nice, 220 is wayyyyy better.  I have a lincoln 170 and a lincoln ac/dc stick welder.  I am looking for a miller 251 or 252 to replace both.  Go bigger and you will be happy.  My 220 is fine but bigger is better.  You will be suprised at all the crap you fix once your proficient and confident enough to try...


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## 'bert (Sep 25, 2010)

I put my mig on the bottle too, so nice to work with.  You do have to use them inside after that - no breeze or the gas blows away.


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## Elderthewelder (Sep 25, 2010)

’bert said:
			
		

> I put my mig on the bottle too, so nice to work with.  You do have to use them inside after that - no breeze or the gas blows away.



Sorry to nit pick your statement but I can't help myself, people have the common misconception that all wire feed type welding is called mig, whether using gas or not

However wire feed welding without gas is actually called FCAW (flux cored arc welding) and wire feed welding with gas is called GMAW (Gas Metal Arc welding) aka MIG ( Metal Inert Gas ) welding, the key words "inert gas"

and just to make things more confusing you can also run a dual shield wire that has the flux in it and also uses gas, runs hot as hell, good for real thick stuff

So in a nut shell it is physically impossible to MIG weld without using gas

OK, my rant is over


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## Dune (Sep 25, 2010)

One thing to consider in the question of thirty amp 220 volt versus 50 amp 220 volt outlets for use of welding machines is the fact that unlike most machines, the output (and therefore the input) current is variable by the user. For example, a typical stick welder draws 50 amps on it's highest setting, however, a normal usage would be 1/8" 6011 which requires less than 100 amps output, less than half of the rated output, meaning the needed input is aproximately half. Even higher melting temp rods such as 1/8" 7018 or 1/8" stainless run on half or less the output of a 50 amp input machine. Migs in the same category generaly draw 30 amps at 220 volts.


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## oldspark (Sep 25, 2010)

I had my stick welder temporaryily hooked up to a 30 amp service and set on 100 amps it would weld fine but if you stuck the rod (do not want to hear about it) it would trip the circuit unless you could get the rod unstuck quickly.


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## Dune (Sep 25, 2010)

oldspark said:
			
		

> I had my stick welder temporaryily hooked up to a 30 amp service and set on 100 amps it would weld fine but if you stuck the rod (do not want to hear about it) it would trip the circuit unless you could get the rod unstuck quickly.



I can see that happening. The best is surely a dedicated 50 amp breaker, installed by an electrician.


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## oldspark (Sep 25, 2010)

Dune said:
			
		

> oldspark said:
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It is now I was just useing that as a reference for the OP in his choice of welders. I am an electrician.


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## madrone (Sep 25, 2010)

I hear you Elder. You can call them both "wire feed" but fluxcore is not the same as MIG. Also, "arc" welding describes more than just SMAW, or stick.


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## maverick06 (Sep 26, 2010)

I have that MIG welder! its great, people complain about it, but its wonderful! Works off of 120v and does a great job. HIGHLY suggest it. 

I have heard that if you replace the wire with some good lincoln wire, you will be better.... but i am ok with the existing stuff, so all is good!

Get the autodarkening hood.

Probably too much power for sheet metal work, but its great!


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## nate379 (Sep 26, 2010)

The Lincoln and Miller MIGs in the 175-180 area draw about 25amps all the way up.

I ran my Lincoln 175 off a 30 amp dryer outlet for several years and not one had a problem with it.

There hasn't been anything I have worked on that I felt my welder wasn't large enough, though I don't normally weld over 1/4" steel.  Once in a while 3/8".


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## madrone (Sep 26, 2010)

burntime said:
			
		

> Had a lincoln 120v and it was nice, 220 is wayyyyy better.  I have a lincoln 170 and a lincoln ac/dc stick welder.  I am looking for a miller 251 or 252 to replace both.  Go bigger and you will be happy.  My 220 is fine but bigger is better.  You will be suprised at all the crap you fix once your proficient and confident enough to try...



That Miller is a niiiice machine. Welds anything you want.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Sep 27, 2010)

Skier76 said:
			
		

> Because I don't have enough on my plate....
> 
> I'm kicking around getting a cheapo Harbor Freight welder. 1) I've always wanted to weld, 2) I have a few projects (albeit very small ones) in my head I'd like to do.
> 
> ...


 Fixing your mower deck sounds fine with that light duty welder, I'm not sure about that ATV hitch though. My 2 cents worth is if you can't or don't want a larger wire welder then buy a stick welder. Used Lincoln tombstones are all over as are some Millers. I had a Century 110 wire that had more welding power than it had any right to, it still would not weld plate like a tombstone would though, Randy


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## Skier76 (Sep 27, 2010)

maverick06 said:
			
		

> I have that MIG welder! its great, people complain about it, but its wonderful! Works off of 120v and does a great job. HIGHLY suggest it.
> 
> I have heard that if you replace the wire with some good lincoln wire, you will be better.... but i am ok with the existing stuff, so all is good!
> 
> ...



Great to hear from someone who has one! Thanks for the insight. 

There's a lot of good info in this thread; I appreciate all the insight. Good stuff!


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## Joe Matthews (Sep 28, 2010)

> Fixing your mower deck sounds fine with that light duty welder, I’m not sure about that ATV hitch though. My 2 cents worth is if you can’t or don’t want a larger wire welder then buy a stick welder. Used Lincoln tombstones are all over as are some Millers. I had a Century 110 wire that had more welding power than it had any right to, it still would not weld plate like a tombstone would though, Randy



Good advise there... I personally do not like the gasless wire welders because they will not do as nice of a job and are not as easy to use, especially with fine work. I suppose for someone wanting to start out and learn it is ok, to see if it is something you will use. Being able to weld is a very handy thing and I will never be without a welding machine again. About the breaker, you can run those 110 welders on a lighter breaker, but you will be limited in the time and thickness you will be able to weld because the breaker will trip. Not a big deal, but can be a pain to deal with and is somewhat limiting. If your breaker box is in the garage though it is simple enough to run a new appropriately sized line and breaker.


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## Skier76 (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks Joe. The breaker box is in the utility room...which is a ways away from the grage. So running a new line would be a minor PITA. However, I did check and it's a 15 amp breaker that powers the plug in the garage. So in theory, it should have enough juice for the 110 unit.


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## Skier76 (Oct 8, 2010)

I had a coupon and picked up the HF 90 amp flux for $89. Scored and auto darkening helmet on sale with a 20% off coupon for $27. So we'll see how this works! Good, bad or indifferent, I'll post up the results.


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## burntime (Oct 10, 2010)

skier, I had a 100 amp lincoln, it sucked to say the least.  I got the 140 and it was worlds better.  I would return it and at least get the largest they have.  Lincoln actually makes a generic version you can buy off of ebay for something like 250.  I would go that route.  My friend has a HF and it was nothing more then a glorified battery charger.  Just saying, if your going to spend the money you should at least enjoy the purchase...


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## Battenkiller (Oct 12, 2010)

I see a dial for the wire feed speed, but how do you adjust the juice on that machine?  You need to be able to adjust both for different gauges of metal.

My Lincoln 125 only has a 20% duty cycle at 60 amps, I find it hard to believe that little thing has 45% at 60A.

I there an option to add a shielding gas?  Using gas makes the welding IMO.  Flux core bites.  Expensive, too.

Like the auto-darkening helmet, though.  Wish they had them when I was learning.  Never really did learn how to drop the mask without flashing myself.


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## Skier76 (Oct 12, 2010)

I'll be sure to post up when I finally use it. I need to get some scrap metal to practice on. I figure I'm into this for a tick over $100...so it's worth a shot. If I get good or want to expand my horizons, I'll look for a good MIG unit down the road.


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