# 99 Ways to Burn Your House Down



## DeerHunter (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm a new burner, and am still getting used to the process of burning in a stove.  I went to bed last night thinking after getting a fire started in the insert and having it stabilize at about 600.  I was lying there with my eyes wide open thinking "did I close the air supply down enough?"; "am I sure that I closed the door?"; "has the coupling come off my liner at the stove outlet?"; "is everything moved back far enough away (did I even check that tonight)?".  Ultimately, I went back downstairs and checked everything, and all was fine.

However, it got me to thinking: I don't know what I don't know.  I mean, I know the basics like 'make sure your flue is clear and clean before burning' and 'keep combustibles away from the stove' and 'burn dry wood'.  But I wouldn't have thought about my child stuffing a plush toy up into the convection air cavity on the top of my stove - until I was told to look for that.  I also would have thought that ashes sitting for two days would not have any live coals in them that could ignite the trash can - until I was told about that.

So, I'd like to hear the 'cautionary tales' that could result from having a live fire in your house.  The result would be to have a list of things to do (and not do) to prevent the worst from happening, and to allow those of us who are new to be able to sleep easy knowing that we've covered all the bases.


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## Dakotas Dad (Oct 4, 2012)

I don't know about cautionary tales..

But for the first two weeks, I slept on the couch, right next to the stove.. well, kind of slept anyways. After that I would wake up and come down stairs once or twice a night just to check..

Now I sleep on the couch from time to time.. just to be near it.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 4, 2012)

Random thoughts . . .

When a newbie says they're worried or spending the night or week or two weeks on the couch in front of the stove -- well that makes me less worried . . . it's the folks that think they know it all or say that they're not worried that worry me the most . . . ignorance in this case is not always bliss.

As for cautionary tales . . . a lot of it is commonsense stuff . . . and it starts with the right install . . . not cutting corners to save a few bucks here or there . . . and not changing up the recommended install because it makes the stove set up too high or puts the stove out too far from the wall or not putting in three screws into the stove pipe because it's hard to do so. Install things right from the get-go . . . even if it means more time, more money and more work . . . and if and when the proverbial poo hits the fan . . . you can rest a little more easier knowing your clearances are met and exceeded, that your hearth meets and exceeds the R value, etc.

Speaking of safety . . . make sure your smoke detectors, CO detectors and fire extinguishers are good to go. Be prepared is a good motto for the scouts and for us . . . but being prepared with a plan of what to do in case of a fire involving the stove is all fine and good . . . unless you're sound asleep at 2 a.m. because the smoke detectors are not working or are faulty. Change the batteries in them (even electric-powered) when you change the clocks later this month . . . if any smoke detectors are over 10 years old, replace 'em -- personally I like the combination ionization/photo-electric detectors for faster alerts or a combination of ion and photo-electric detectors in the home (3-7 years is the change out time for the CO detectors depending on the make/model). Check that fire extinguishers are charged . . . and have a family escape plan so everyone knows where to go if the alarms sound.

Again . . . it all starts at the start . . . and having seasoned wood is important . . . both in terms of safety and pure burning bliss. Unseasoned wood = hard starts, not as much heat and oftentimes more creosote in the chimney.

Watch those temps -- If you don't have a thermometer for your stove/insert and stove pipe (probe style if double wall pipe) I encourage you to get them. Thermometers are very useful in helping you to prevent the stove from over-firing and from keeping the stove pipe temps good (Goldilocks temps -- not too hot, not too cold) . . . plus many of us find that having thermos allows you to help adjust the air control for better burns.

C & C: Not the music factor . . . take the time to check and clean the chimney when needed. Depending on your wood quality, how you burn and your set up you may be able to get away with just a couple checks in a season . . . although I prefer to check monthly . . . and for newbies with questionable wood checking every two weeks in order to prevent a fire may not necessarily be a case of overkill when it comes to family safety.

It's not over, until it's over . . . watch the ashes. Honestly, I've gone to a number of chimney fires and can only remember maybe one or two that were bad and threatened the home . . . and in these cases the home was old, the chimney old masonry types and the creosote was chocker blocker bad. On the other hand I can guarantee you that every year I will hear of at least one house fire in the area that will be caused by someone who thought the fire was out and they dumped their ash into a plastic bucket, cardboard box, paper bag, etc. and then placed the container on their wooden deck, porch, garage, etc. . . . only to find a hot coal inside. Treat all ash as if it has a coal inside . . . I put my ash into a covered metal pail outside that sits on a non-combustible surface (concrete) before it gets dumped for good . . . often on my ice-covered driveway as ash is a great way to melt snow and ice and provide traction.

OK . . . that's all I have for now . . . fingers are tired of typing.


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## Jags (Oct 4, 2012)

Don't throw a ferret into a hot stove.


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## fossil (Oct 4, 2012)

Jags said:


> Don't throw a ferret into a hot stove.


 
Oh c'mon...how else are you gonna keep that flue squeaky clean?


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## WES999 (Oct 4, 2012)

Don't leave the door open and walk away and forget about the stove.


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## Jags (Oct 4, 2012)

Don't use the ashpan door for startup intake air (for those stoves with ash pans).


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## woodchip (Oct 4, 2012)

Never leave damp clothes in front of the fire to dry out. Just in case they topple over on to the fire when you are out of the room. They may not go up in flames instantly, but they will easily make a huge smoky mess and ruin the decor........


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## Backwoods Savage (Oct 4, 2012)

Perhaps the scariest I've heard about was a couple of fellows mentioning they put wood in the stove and opened the draft full and then.....one took a shower before checking the stove again. The worst one went to the corner grocery to come back to find a super hot stove. But of course, this sort of goes into the dumb move type situation.

I believe one can go on youtube and find some really scary things connected to wood burning.


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## velvetfoot (Oct 4, 2012)

or...fall asleep on the sofa after reloading and full draft.


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## ScotO (Oct 4, 2012)

We were living over at my parents' place when I installed our kitchen stove (house was in the middle of a total remodel.)  Needless to say, I brought my sleeping bag and air matress down the the kitchen and slept right beside that puppy.  For the first couple of nights!  As far as going to bed and coming back downstairs to check it over, I do it almost every night I'm burning.......just for personal reassurance.  Never hurts to be overly careful......


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## osagebow (Oct 4, 2012)

Got a good safety tip here last winter - get a loud, annoying "downstairs" timer for stove room and set it to 30 min after start up, so you have to go (in my case) back down and adjust draft, check everything before bed.

Make sure house is warm enough for loud, annoying "upstairs" timer, though.

Good luck in the woods thid fall, DH


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## etiger2007 (Oct 4, 2012)

I check it to,, just to much ( kids , wife) relying on me to be responsible.


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## milleo (Oct 4, 2012)

Jake covered most everything and the rest filled in the other parts.....Beware and enjoy......


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## FanMan (Oct 4, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> ...someone who thought the fire was out and they dumped their ash into a plastic bucket, cardboard box, paper bag, etc. and then placed the container on their wooden deck, porch, garage, etc. . . . only to find a hot coal inside...


 
Yikes!  Is that evolution in action?  My ash goes into a metal bucket that sits on the insulated brick floor the stove sits on... and gets dumped out back usually days later.

But the scariest thing I ever saw was the stove install when I moved into my cabin.  The stovepipe (for a wood stove!) was _B-Vent pipe_ right through the roof, zero clearance (touching) the 80 year old roof boards.  The inner wall of the pipe was gone (melted away) and the wood it was touching was charred.  How it never burned the cabin down I can't imagine... the previous owner said he rarely used the stove, but the guy before him used it "nightly".

Then there was the plywood box covered with fake brick surrounding and hiding the stovepipe... _resting directly on the stove._  The inside of said box was lined with aluminum foil... as if that would do anything...


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## fishingpol (Oct 4, 2012)

Ashes go out and sit in the Weber grill on the patio away from the house for at least a week.

I don't worry about sleeping with the stove running as I'm steps away to respond if something bad happens.  Extinguishers are good to go as well as smoke and CO detectors.  It's when I leave the house when I worry about it as I am not there to respond if something goes south.  

Good fuel and good burning habits along with periodic checks of the stove and piping round it out.


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## n3pro (Oct 4, 2012)

Watch clearance to combustibles.  There was at least one fire I read about locally where they had couch too close, according to the fire marshal it was believed a spark smoldered in the couch for a while before igniting.  Another one I heard someone had a box of kindling and newspaper too close to the fireplace, similar circumstances.  Also as Jake said WATCH THE ASHES!  Heard too many stories about that.


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## ailanthus (Oct 4, 2012)

Jags said:


> Don't use the ashpan door for startup intake air (for those stoves with ash pans).


+1


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## xman23 (Oct 4, 2012)

A said here, the ashes arn't out for a lot of weeks. Yes I know, I thought a week would be fine, but there are smoldering bits in the ash. Almost burned the house down. Now all ash goes into a 10 gallon metal can that is outside sitting on a rock. I empty it onto the ash pile 100 ft from the house. If there is no snow, I wet the pile.

Make sure all clearences are greater than the minimun required. Check what you can't see, where the chimney goes thru ceiling, attic and roof. Make sure no animals are getting into the attic space. The love to build nests near the chimney.


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## corey21 (Oct 4, 2012)

Don't leave your with the stove door cracked


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## rwhite (Oct 4, 2012)

I look at it this way. Every heating device in your home has the ability to cause the same damage as a wood stove. The security is knowing it was installed correctly. Would you be sleepless if you had a new NG furnace installed? It's still a metal box with fire inside. If everything was inspected and the install was correct I would sleep well.


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## rideau (Oct 4, 2012)

woodchip said:


> Never leave damp clothes in front of the fire to dry out. Just in case they topple over on to the fire when you are out of the room. They may not go up in flames instantly, but they will easily make a huge smoky mess and ruin the decor........


 
I have a really well designed, stable, steel clothes horse that I use in front of the stove at night all winter to dry all my wash...hardly ever use the dryer.  Never had a prolem with it toppling...leave a passage way between the stove and the drying rack.


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## DexterDay (Oct 4, 2012)

Loading lots of scraps, pallet wood, kindling, or even a bunch of small splits on a Very large coal bed. 

Its best to burn the stove in cycles. Resist throwing a piece of wood in here and there. Let the entire load burn. Open air as it coals (if your home), then reload (and dont do whats posted above/leave door cracked, ash pan, fall asleep, take a shower, etc).

Let the load do what it does best. Burn. Throwing wood in at different stages will have a stove full of coals in no time. Then the room for actual wood shrinks. As does your burn time, because the wood off gases so fast.


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## rideau (Oct 4, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Random thoughts . . .
> 
> When a newbie says they're worried or spending the night or week or two weeks on the couch in front of the stove -- well that makes me less worried . . . it's the folks that think they know it all or say that they're not worried that worry me the most . . . ignorance in this case is not always bliss.
> 
> ...


 
I've used ashes for traction when its icy, but have found they get everything filthy...the dog and people tracking ashes all over the place....ashes on the steps and landings, so if anyhitng gets put down it gets ashen....so I hardly ever use ashes now.  Maybe when its lethal out....

I keep my ashes in covered stainless steel buckets on my hearth pad until the next time I need to take ashes out of the stove.  Since that can be anywhere up to a week, the ashes are good and cold before they go outside.  Then I dump them in a compost bin I made from old pallets, adjacent to and the far side of my two permanent wood compost bins, all of which is behind the offset cedar fence that curves
for about 40 feet to the west of and about ten feet away from my fenced garden... This area is about 40 feet from the nearest corner of my house, and close to 100 feet from the door I use in the winter...so fun when then snow is deep or the top of the snow is really icy....but the ashes are cold, far away, and a decent distance from trees....


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## rideau (Oct 4, 2012)

FanMan said:


> Yikes! Is that evolution in action? My ash goes into a metal bucket that sits on the insulated brick floor the stove sits on... and gets dumped out back usually days later.
> 
> But the scariest thing I ever saw was the stove install when I moved into my cabin. The stovepipe (for a wood stove!) was _B-Vent pipe_ right through the roof, zero clearance (touching) the 80 year old roof boards. The inner wall of the pipe was gone (melted away) and the wood it was touching was charred. How it never burned the cabin down I can't imagine... the previous owner said he rarely used the stove, but the guy before him used it "nightly".
> 
> Then there was the plywood box covered with fake brick surrounding and hiding the stovepipe... _resting directly on the stove._ The inside of said box was lined with aluminum foil... as if that would do anything...


 
Makes one wonder how the rest of the cabin was built...electric wiring, etc.


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## simple.serf (Oct 4, 2012)

Thus far, at this house all of my "almost burnt the house/barn down" events involve a very faulty ITE pushmatic electrical box. It's going away in the next two months. I don't worry about the stove, but it's the last thing I check before I go to bed, and the first thing I check when I get up in the morning (and halfway though the night).


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## fossil (Oct 4, 2012)

Scariest personal experience for me had everything to do with combustibles (firewood) sitting too close to the side of a steel stove (old Lopi 520 that was in the house when we bought it) that was rippin' into its overnight burn fuel load.  Laying in bed, I kept thinking I smelled smoke...finally got up to check, and the dang ends of some of those splits close to (but outside of!) the stove were smoldering/smoking...just about ready to burst into flame.  Scared the bejeezuz out of me.  I can't even look at either of my stoves without remembering that...and it was in 2007.  Rick


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## FanMan (Oct 4, 2012)

rideau said:


> Makes one wonder how the rest of the cabin was built...electric wiring, etc.


 
The wiring is typical 1930s where it hasn't been upgraded (and I've upgraded much of it).  The plumbing was so bad that I replaced all of it... it was nothing but splices and patches presumably due to split frozen pipes from improper winter draining.  The core structure was solid but the later additions were pretty bad... I went into it knowing I'd have to completely  gut and renovate it.  Took 5 years but I finally finished (more or less) last spring.


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## rideau (Oct 4, 2012)

FanMan said:


> The wiring is typical 1930s where it hasn't been upgraded (and I've upgraded much of it). The plumbing was so bad that I replaced all of it... it was nothing but splices and patches presumably due to split frozen pipes from improper winter draining. The core structure was solid but the later additions were pretty bad... I went into it knowing I'd have to completely gut and renovate it. Took 5 years but I finally finished (more or less) last spring.


 
Sounds like you'll be able to relax and enjoy for many years.  Pictures?


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## Chrism (Oct 4, 2012)

well one thing i do in the winter is have the right amount of garden hose to reach my stove. its in the heated basement nothing worse than to have a fire and your hose is frozen or having not enough hose to reach it !! never needed it but id rather cover may butt.


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## theonlyzarathu (Oct 4, 2012)

I have to say that when I was burning the old riteway 37 in a 7 inch outside insulated chimney pipe it was way more scary than anything last year when I started buring a Pacific Energy Summit using the stainles Steel liner in the concrete and ceramic flue that goes up the center of the house.  The old side drafting riteway was a heck of a big stove holding 4 cu ft of wood.  But the draft was so intense that even with a damper in the stack there were times I couldn't slow it down and the interior stove pipe got cherry red at about  900 degrees F.    When it was below 20 and the wind was blowing I could either not burn wood, or only burn small amounts because the stove would "take off" and I would be running fans on the stove and the interior pipe to try to keep it cooled down.

The worst time I had all winter with the PE Summit was when the temps ouside were -8 and the wind started blowing at about 30 mph.  And then I simply turned the air intake down, turned the blower fan on full,  and the temps stabilized in about 5 minutes.

The PE stove in an appropriate configuation is a dream to start up, and easy as sin to run smoothly.   But never leave the front door open or you might have a serious problem.  Other than that, there is really nothing more that you can do.   You turn the stove back to "L" at night or when you arenot there, and you are good to go.


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## NextEndeavor (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm careful about not loading thing such that a chunk of wood could roll/fall into the glass.  If using a butane lighter, never set it down near the hearth.  Never use a liquid fuel to start a fire.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 5, 2012)

fishingpol said:


> Ashes go out and sit in the Weber grill on the patio away from the house for at least a week.
> 
> I don't worry about sleeping with the stove running as I'm steps away to respond if something bad happens. Extinguishers are good to go as well as smoke and CO detectors. *It's when I leave the house when I worry about it as I am not there to respond if something goes south. *
> 
> Good fuel and good burning habits along with periodic checks of the stove and piping round it out.


 
Honestly . . . I don't know if I would say I "worry" . . . but I am always thinking about the woodstove . . . and it doesn't matter if I am home or not home. In some ways, there may be less worry if no one is home and the stove is going unattended since if something does happen no one is at risk . . . one way of looking at it I suppose . . . although one could also argue that if you were home and things went bad you would wake up and be able to deal with the problem.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 5, 2012)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Perhaps the scariest I've heard about was a couple of fellows mentioning *they put wood in the stove and opened the draft full and then.....one took a shower before checking the stove again*. The worst one went to the corner grocery to come back to find a super hot stove. But of course, this sort of goes into the dumb move type situation.
> 
> I believe one can go on youtube and find some really scary things connected to wood burning.


 
Hmmm . . . that sounds very familiar.


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## corey21 (Oct 5, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Honestly . . . I don't know if I would say I "worry" . . . but I am always thinking about the woodstove . . . and it doesn't matter if I am home or not home. In some ways, there may be less worry if no one is home and the stove is going unattended since if something does happen no one is at risk . . . one way of looking at it I suppose . . . although one could also argue that if you were home and things went bad you would wake up and be able to deal with the problem.


 
What scares me is something oddly goes wrong with my co2 alarm while i am sleeping.

That's my biggest fears may sound odd just check your alarms often.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 5, 2012)

corey21 said:


> What scares me is something oddly goes wrong with my co2 alarm while i am sleeping.
> 
> That's my biggest fears may sound odd just check your alarms often.


 
But be aware that most folks check their CO and smoke alarms simply by pushing the test button . . . which tests the audible alarm and for power . . . but does not actually check the sensing unit. You can purchase "canned smoke" from some hardware stores and electric supply places that will test the actual sensing unit in the smoke alarm.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 5, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Honestly . . . I don't know if I would say I "worry" . . . but I am always thinking about the woodstove . . . and it doesn't matter if I am home or not home. In some ways, there may be less worry if no one is home and the stove is going unattended since if something does happen no one is at risk . . . one way of looking at it I suppose . . . although one could also argue that if you were home and things went bad you would wake up and be able to deal with the problem.


 
Just realized . . . this may have sounded "harsh" . . . when in fact I understand what you're saying . . . that if you are home you know there is a good chance you can monitor things and deal with most situations vs. being away. Didn't want to come across as a DB.


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## corey21 (Oct 5, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> But be aware that most folks check their CO and smoke alarms simply by pushing the test button . . . which tests the audible alarm and for power . . . but does not actually check the sensing unit. You can purchase "canned smoke" from some hardware stores and electric supply places that will test the actual sensing unit in the smoke alarm.


 

Gret tip i did not know that.


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## maverick06 (Oct 5, 2012)

I am always watching to see how the stove is going. Its a combination of looking for an efficient burn, looking to keep it from getting too hot, and little OCD. It might drive my wife a bit nuts, but it doesnt hurt to keep an eye on it! The stove has been wonderful, but it is always in my mind when its going, suspect thats what makes it safe for me.

My wife does a very good job when running it too, certainly better than average. But she doesnt have the paranoia of continually checking on it as i do.

gegtting new smoke alarms has been one of the most obvious and yet overlooked things i did. The old ones had long since expired.


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## FanMan (Oct 5, 2012)

rideau said:


> Sounds like you'll be able to relax and enjoy for many years. Pictures?


 
OK... but rather than hijack this thread, I started a new thread in the Pictures section:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/our-cabin.91334/


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## Poult (Oct 5, 2012)

In my opinion, once you get into the swing of things burning wood you should be good.  Where the problem is (with me, anyway) is when something unexpected happens, like a knock on the door with someone telling you your cows are out, for example, and your mind changes gear completely and you walk out of the house without checking the stove.  You need to get it in your head that in all circumstances you will walk to the stove and check it when something happens that you didn't expect that will take you away from the stove.


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## neumsky (Oct 5, 2012)

FanMan said:


> Yikes!  Is that evolution in action?  My ash goes into a metal bucket that sits on the insulated brick floor the stove sits on... and gets dumped out back usually days later.
> 
> But the scariest thing I ever saw was the stove install when I moved into my cabin.  The stovepipe (for a wood stove!) was _B-Vent pipe_ right through the roof, zero clearance (touching) the 80 year old roof boards.  The inner wall of the pipe was gone (melted away) and the wood it was touching was charred.  How it never burned the cabin down I can't imagine... the previous owner said he rarely used the stove, but the guy before him used it "nightly".
> 
> ...


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## Sprinter (Oct 5, 2012)

Well, I've only been burning for 4 days now (right), and only in the morning, but I've already identified a few potential areas to watch for. One is that it is very easy to go off and do something (like take a shower) after initially lighting the fire with the damper full open. My operating manual suggests waiting about 20 minutes on full before turning the damper down which leaves plenty of time to get distracted with making coffee, breakfast, whatever. At first, I followed somebody's advise and opened the door for little while after lighting, but I won't do that anymore at all. I have a stove top thermometer, but I'm going to look for one that has a settable alarm. That should help during the night as well. I have a Polder electronic meat thermometer but it only goes up to 392 F.


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## fishingpol (Oct 5, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Just realized . . . this may have sounded "harsh" . . . when in fact I understand what you're saying . . . that if you are home you know there is a good chance you can monitor things and deal with most situations vs. being away. Didn't want to come across as a DB.


 
No that's fine Jake.  Maybe "worry" should have been "in the back of my mind".  I have examples why I think this.  When I was a kid, we had an plug-in timer for a lamp short out and catch fire in our living room.  It was put out quickly with a fire extinguisher.  Scary nonetheless being a kid.  The other was a few years ago, my neighbors steam boiler water auto-fill failed and the unit overheated until it was cherry red in places.  They heard the smoke alarms and called 911 and everything turned out fine.  I guess for me it is just a better chance to respond and call for help if you are home.


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## firefighterjake (Oct 6, 2012)

fishingpol said:


> No that's fine Jake. Maybe "worry" should have been "in the back of my mind". I have examples why I think this. When I was a kid, we had an plug-in timer for a lamp short out and catch fire in our living room. It was put out quickly with a fire extinguisher. Scary nonetheless being a kid. The other was a few years ago, my neighbors steam boiler water auto-fill failed and the unit overheated until it was cherry red in places. They heard the smoke alarms and called 911 and everything turned out fine. I guess for me it is just a better chance to respond and call for help if you are home.


 
Good . . . sometimes I type and realize afterwards that I may have come across wrong . . . by the way, very manly looking woodbox!


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## osagebow (Oct 7, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> But be aware that most folks check their CO and smoke alarms simply by pushing the test button . . . which tests the audible alarm and for power . . . but does not actually check the sensing unit. You can purchase "canned smoke" from some hardware stores and electric supply places that will test the actual sensing unit in the smoke alarm.


 
Testing fire alarms by sneaking up while the wife cooks in our tiny kitchen has been a running joke for years. (She often forgets to put the exhaust fan on) Helps hone the reflexes, too!


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## Dakotas Dad (Oct 7, 2012)

corey21 said:


> What scares me is something oddly goes wrong with my co2 alarm while i am sleeping.
> 
> That's my biggest fears may sound odd just check your alarms often.


 
Just like smoke detectors.. we have more than 1..


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## btuser (Oct 7, 2012)

Don't vacuum up ash with your vacuum cleaner.


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## rideau (Oct 7, 2012)

Anybody else ever had all the fire alarms in their house go off at once and had ALL the children sleep right through them, while you are running around dying from the sound, trying to figure out what the heck is going on?


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## stoveguy2esw (Oct 7, 2012)

KUDO'S to FF jake!  what an amazingly great post!


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## firefighterjake (Oct 9, 2012)

rideau said:


> Anybody else ever had all the fire alarms in their house go off at once and had ALL the children sleep right through them, while you are running around dying from the sound, trying to figure out what the heck is going on?


 
That's not so surprising . . . there have been some studies on how some children will not wake up to the sound of many smoke detectors. It appears however that smoke detectors with an alternating pitch will have better results . . . and talking smoke detectors (some you can tape your own warning) have even better results at waking sleeping children.


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## firebroad (Oct 9, 2012)

Chrism said:


> well one thing i do in the winter is have the right amount of garden hose to reach my stove. its in the heated basement nothing worse than to have a fire and your hose is frozen or having not enough hose to reach it !! never needed it but id rather cover may butt.


I'm not so sure I want to use freezing cold water near a red hot stove...I think I would prefer a fire extinguisher.


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## KaptJaq (Oct 9, 2012)

firebroad said:


> I'm not so sure I want to use freezing cold water near a red hot stove...I think I would prefer a fire extinguisher.


 
If the stove is that HOT it is probably damaged anyway but I still wouldn't hit it with water. To get that hot it probably went through all the fuel in it and is already cooling down. The material in it, cast iron & ceramic window,  might react violently from a sudden burst of water.

I would want to hose down the sofa (or the drapes, or the coffee table, etc) that had proper CTC but caught fire anyway from the intense heat of the run-away stove.

KaptJaq


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## teutonicking (Oct 9, 2012)

DeerHunter said:


> I'm a new burner, and am still getting used to the process of burning in a stove. I went to bed last night thinking after getting a fire started in the insert and having it stabilize at about 600. I was lying there with my eyes wide open thinking "did I close the air supply down enough?"; "am I sure that I closed the door?"; "has the coupling come off my liner at the stove outlet?"; "is everything moved back far enough away (did I even check that tonight)?". Ultimately, I went back downstairs and checked everything, and all was fine.
> 
> However, it got me to thinking: I don't know what I don't know. I mean, I know the basics like 'make sure your flue is clear and clean before burning' and 'keep combustibles away from the stove' and 'burn dry wood'. But I wouldn't have thought about my child stuffing a plush toy up into the convection air cavity on the top of my stove - until I was told to look for that. I also would have thought that ashes sitting for two days would not have any live coals in them that could ignite the trash can - until I was told about that.
> 
> So, I'd like to hear the 'cautionary tales' that could result from having a live fire in your house. The result would be to have a list of things to do (and not do) to prevent the worst from happening, and to allow those of us who are new to be able to sleep easy knowing that we've covered all the bases.


 
If you have an ash pan, make sure you only empty it when the stove is cold or at least after an overngiht burn when there are not too many hot coals in the stove. When I first got my stove last year I made the twin mistakes of emptying the ash pan once when the stove was relatively hot and right after I had just raked the ash into the pan to fill it up, adding even more hot coals into the pan. Although I was wearing my 20" stove gloves, the pan was so hot that it went through the gloves after about 10 seconds before I was able to get to the backyard. Dumb mistake, but one I will never repeat again.


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

Okay, here's another one. Don't paint with volatile-type paints or solvents with your stove burning, cooking stove on, or furnace active. Just a few days ago, some millions of damage was done in a very expensive part of Seattle when (according to the news), a contractor had been using lacquer in a new house when the furnace ignited the fumes and exploded. It totaled the house and severely damaged some adjacent houses. No one was killed.


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## firebroad (Oct 12, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> Okay, here's another one. Don't paint with volatile-type paints or solvents with your stove burning, cooking stove on, or furnace active. Just a few days ago, some millions of damage was done in a very expensive part of Seattle when (according to the news), a contractor had been using lacquer in a new house when the furnace ignited the fumes and exploded. It totaled the house and severely damaged some adjacent houses. No one was killed.


wOw
I would never think that would be a danger


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## katwillny (Oct 12, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> the other hand I can guarantee you that every year I will hear of at least one house fire in the area that will be caused by someone who thought the fire was out and they dumped their ash into a plastic bucket, cardboard box, paper bag, etc. and then placed the container on their wooden deck, porch, garage, etc. . . . only to find a hot coal inside. Treat all ash as if it has a coal inside


I believe this is what happened last Christmas in Hartford CT. That was sad.


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

firebroad said:


> wOw
> I would never think that would be a danger


Well,it does take just the right mixture of fumes and air to explode like that ("stoichiometry"). Hopefully, it would be rare for that ratio to be just right like that, but it can and does happen. In this kind of case in a closed structure, the fumes could just build and build until the critical mixture is reached, then all it takes is an ignition source.   It's the same problem as natural gas leaks or anything else like that. Too much fumes or too little and it won't ignite explosively. It's a Goldilocks thing. It has to be just right.


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## Monosperma (Oct 12, 2012)

-Procrastinate on things like getting that heat shield up, repairing a bad door seal, or chimney sweeping.
-Let clueless, unaware, houseguests operate your stove without taking the time to teach them how to do it right and why.
-Lose track of your fire extinguisher, e.g., move it around a lot or put it in a cupboard and be unable to find it in the stressful, urgent, moment of truth (or, just as bad, render others unable to find it).
-Too much small wood with too much surface area, combined with inadequate control of air supply.
-Be a cheapskate: rely on a thirty year old fire extinguisher; let your unemployed carpenter neighbor, who has never installed a stove before, do the job cheap.


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## btuser (Oct 12, 2012)

+1 on making sure your fire extinguisher is good to go.  It's not a good feeling when you pull the pin and squeeze the handle, only to find out nothing's going to come out.  

Been there.  It sucks.


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## Ashful (Oct 12, 2012)

fossil said:


> Scariest personal experience for me had everything to do with combustibles (firewood) sitting too close to the side of a steel stove that was rippin' into its overnight burn fuel load.


 
How close was it? Between wood beams and lockers inside these big old fireplaces, lintels, and door jambs... I have _lots _of wood close to my stoves. Depending on how you interpret the less-than crystal clear diagrams and instructions of old stove manuals poorly translated from Swedish to English, I'm either okay or doomed.



Sprinter said:


> At first, I followed somebody's advise and opened the door for little while after lighting, but I won't do that anymore at all.


 
That's the standard procedure outlined in my stove manual, as well as others I've perused. Of course, that statement is always followed by the text, "never leave the stove in this state." I always crack my front load doors (never the ash door) during light-up, typically for the first 3 - 5 minutes of burning, but I _never _walk away from the stove with the doors cracked.



Dakotas Dad said:


> Just like smoke detectors.. we have more than 1..


 
We have two separate systems, one hardwired (with battery backup), and then a second system installed by our central-monitoring company. We have five smoke detectors with carbon monixide on the old hardwired system, and we have more than 10 smoke and fire (heat rise) detectors on the centrally-monitored system. My father spent much of his life as a firefighter, and the rest of it as a fire inspector, providing advice on fire investigations. I grew up seeing the result of too many fires.



rideau said:


> Anybody else ever had all the fire alarms in their house go off at once and had ALL the children sleep right through them, while you are running around dying from the sound, trying to figure out what the heck is going on?


 
Yes. Very scary.

And to add to the topic... owning a thermostatically-controlled fan.  In the aforementioned fire investigations, the worst fires I've ever seen were those in houses with thermostatically controlled fans.  In one or two cases, an attic-mounted whole-house fan was controlled by a thermostat on the second floor.  Fire starts, thermostat clicks the fan on, and turns your entire house into a very efficient blast furnace.


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## heatwise (Oct 12, 2012)

Uh, don't run pipe through plywood out the window. Sadly that is what happened to someone who was in my musician group of friends. If I had known he was setting up a stove I could have seen to it he used my installer, even if I had to pay for it. He lost everything and was not insured.


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## fossil (Oct 12, 2012)

Joful said:


> How close was it?


 
~4"


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

heatwise said:


> Uh, don't run pipe through plywood out the window. Sadly that is what happened to someone who was in my musician group of friends. If I had known he was setting up a stove I could have seen to it he used my installer, even if I had to pay for it. He lost everything and was not insured.


Yikes. Dry wood can ignite at only 451 F (or at least books can, according to Ray Bradbury...). Stove pipes can get _so_ much hotter than that. Stove tops and sides, too, for that matter.  Ask fossil.


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## btuser (Oct 12, 2012)

You may never walk away from a stove, but I have.  Sometimes it's a phone call, or someone needs the door unlocked, or I go out to grab something.

That's why I like keeping to the minimum clearances, to protect myself from my own stupidity.  

"Dear Homer:  I owe you one emergency donut.  -Homer-"


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## bag of hammers (Oct 12, 2012)

Can't add anything to the wealth of great advice here but fwiw I will share this.  My stove mfr also recommends leaving the door cracked a bit when lighting it up from cold.  Which I do - usually @ 60 seconds and it's going strong and I close the door.  Once (with a nice mix of cedar, spruce, and a couple small-ish very dry maple pieces, apparently stacked in some magical way that was aligned with the moon and stars, destined to go thermonuclear) I lit it up, let it roll, closed the door (but left the air open full) and went to get my coffee.  About 5 minutes later (kinda guessing as I didn't time it, but enough time to gab a mug, put the kettle on for my better half, mix my brew, etc.) i came back and the flue temp was passing 950 and approaching 1000.  I lit the stove a hundred times and never saw it go like that before.  Not a disaster or anything, I just closed the air and all was fine, but I was stunned by how hot and how fast that kindling took off that day.  I don't leave the stove now until the fire is settled into it's groove (first get coffee, then light stove, and enjoy both in front of the fire).


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## RORY12553 (Oct 12, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> That's not so surprising . . . there have been some studies on how some children will not wake up to the sound of many smoke detectors. It appears however that smoke detectors with an alternating pitch will have better results . . . and talking smoke detectors (some you can tape your own warning) have even better results at waking sleeping children.


 
A bomb can go off in my house and nobody else but me would hear it and to think I only have 70% hearing in both ears! LOL...not sure if this was sad but i think i would like to know what to do in case of chimney fire? what if one of the kids throws something at the pipe on top of the stove and breaks it while a fire is going? just all the what if's. i have a fire exstinguisher downstairs and have checked all the fire alarms and carbon monoxide detectors to make sure they work


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

bag of hammers said:


> Can't add anything to the wealth of great advice here but fwiw I will share this. My stove mfr also recommends leaving the door cracked a bit when lighting it up from cold. Which I do - usually @ 60 seconds and it's going strong and I close the door. Once (with a nice mix of cedar, spruce, and a couple small-ish very dry maple pieces, apparently stacked in some magical way that was aligned with the moon and stars, destined to go thermonuclear) I lit it up, let it roll, closed the door (but left the air open full) and went to get my coffee. About 5 minutes later (kinda guessing as I didn't time it, but enough time to gab a mug, put the kettle on for my better half, mix my brew, etc.) i came back and the flue temp was passing 950 and approaching 1000. I lit the stove a hundred times and never saw it go like that before. Not a disaster or anything, I just closed the air and all was fine, but I was stunned by how hot and how fast that kindling took off that day. I don't leave the stove now until the fire is settled into it's groove (first get coffee, then light stove, and enjoy both in front of the fire).


Great story. You just can't walk away thinking you'll be back in time (or at least I can't). I guess sometimes when the outside air is warm or for some other reason you're getting a smoke buildup, you may need to establish a draft for a couple minutes, but don't walk away. Even when I have the stove turned up all the way for 15 or 20 minutes to get it hot before turning it down (on a fresh start), I set a timer that I have right next to the stove. Religiously. I'm still looking for a hi temp alarm and it's looking like I'll have to build one or spend around $60 for one, which I will do if necessary.


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

RORY12553 said:


> A bomb can go off in my house and nobody else but me would hear it and to think I only have 70% hearing in both ears! LOL...not sure if this was sad but i think i would like to know what to do in case of chimney fire? what if one of the kids throws something at the pipe on top of the stove and breaks it while a fire is going? just all the what if's.* i have a fire exstinguisher downstairs* and have checked all the fire alarms and carbon monoxide detectors to make sure they work


Get one upstairs, too.  The big 8 pound ones.


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## bag of hammers (Oct 12, 2012)

speaking of kids - another thought that just occurred - a friend once had an incident with his son - I believe he was standing by a stove, warming his hands (turned facing away so he had his hands behind him) - not sure if he got distracted by something, just not paying attention, lost his balance or whatever, but his hands touched the stove and he got burned pretty bad as you can imagine.   I would say in addition to extinguishers, alarms, etc, a good first aid kit and some basic knowledge of what to do in the event of a burn would be great things to have on hand.  I have to admit I need to do some work in that regard myself....


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## charly (Oct 12, 2012)

WES999 said:


> Don't leave the door open and walk away and forget about the stove.


You'd think the dog would take a minute , get down off the couch and shut the door for ya!


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 12, 2012)

FanMan said:


> Yikes! Is that evolution in action? My ash goes into a metal bucket that sits on the insulated brick floor the stove sits on... and gets dumped out back usually days later.
> 
> But the scariest thing I ever saw was the stove install when I moved into my cabin. The stovepipe (for a wood stove!) was _B-Vent pipe_ right through the roof, zero clearance (touching) the 80 year old roof boards. The inner wall of the pipe was gone (melted away) and the wood it was touching was charred. How it never burned the cabin down I can't imagine... the previous owner said he rarely used the stove, but the guy before him used it "nightly".
> 
> Then there was the plywood box covered with fake brick surrounding and hiding the stovepipe... _resting directly on the stove._ The inside of said box was lined with aluminum foil... as if that would do anything...


 
You really should take them out and put them in a covered metal pail which sits on a non-combustible surface asap.

Sounds so very familiar.  Ours was an old Fisher with correct 8" pipe.  However....the pipe was connected with a piece of aluminum flashing held in place with thin gauge wire.  The feet were cemented into the hearth pad, and the corners were set into the stone surround, WELL below clearance.


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## Sprinter (Oct 12, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:


> You really should take them out and put them in a covered metal pail which sits on a non-combustible surface asap.
> 
> Sounds so very familiar. Ours was an old Fisher with correct 8" pipe. However....the pipe was connected with a piece of aluminum flashing held in place with thin gauge wire. The feet were cemented into the hearth pad, and the corners were set into the stone surround, WELL below clearance.


I missed the part about leaving the bucket inside.  I'd worry about CO buildup from any material left smouldering., as well as accidentally knocking it over.   +1 on taking it outside asap.


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## bag of hammers (Oct 15, 2012)

My stove is pretty much used on weekends (at camp).   One long weekend a couple years ago, we had the usual great fire going all weekend (cold as hell outside).  Since we were leaving early Monday evening, we let the stove wind down most of the day, then shut it right down before we left.  Anyway, the following weekend I returned (Friday afternoon), cleaned out some of the ashes before re-lighting the stove, put them in a steel bucket and took the bucket outside, as usual.  I had a plastic garbage bag sitting out beside the driveway, on the snow, where I was throwing some small scraps from the renovation work I was doing inside - junk I didn't want to burn in the outside fire.  The ashes "appeared" to be stone cold so, naturally, I figured I'd dump the bucket in the bag - I could take the whole thing home with me at the end of the weekend and out to the dump.  Duh.  Playing around outside, about an hour later I noticed a funky smell and a bit of smoke - the plastic had melted off one side of the bag, and bits of the stuff inside were smoldering. 

4 days between shut down and start up and there was still some life somewhere in the ashes.  I was kinda shocked, but I guess it was best to be "surprised" out in a  cold snowy driveway, as opposed to middle of my living room. 

Sharing my stupid human trick - one that didn't end in tragedy - fwiw...


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 15, 2012)

Don't burn a bunch of cardboard and papers all at once, ESPECIALLY if you haven't swept the flue and might have creosote build up.


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## Sprinter (Oct 15, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:


> Don't burn a bunch of cardboard and papers all at once, ESPECIALLY if you haven't swept the flue and might have creosote build up.


That one sounds suspiciously like there's an experience behind it


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 16, 2012)

Sprinter said:


> That one sounds suspiciously like there's an experience behind it


 
Actually, no.  Well, sort of, but more because I've heard of people burning off stuff like that in their stove.  We have a firepit outside for that reason.  Just burned off a few big cardboard boxes in a roaring fashion and it made me think of it.  I imagine it would be quite a (short) blast of heat in a stove.


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## theonlyzarathu (Oct 16, 2012)

Before I bought the PE Summit, I used to need lots of paper and cardboard, and 6 or more pieces of fat wood, and then starting with really small pieces of wood to get hte stove started from a flat cold position. Then I had to put paper in the pipe to get a draft going, and if the temperature outside didn't get down to at least 38, I still have little draft and the stove would sputter.

Now, the PE Summit is so easy to start that I can actually burn wood when the temperatures outside are in the 60's. I need either a couple pieces of kiln dried lumber or a little starter brick, and I have a roaring fire in 10 minutes. The newer stoves, or at least my PE Summit, don't need paper and carboard to get them started.


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 16, 2012)

theonlyzarathu said:


> Before I bought the PE Summit, I used to need lots of paper and cardboard, and 6 or more pieces of fat wood, and then starting with really small pieces of wood to get hte stove started from a flat cold position. Then I had to put paper in the pipe to get a draft going, and if the temperature outside didn't get down to at least 38, I still have little draft and the stove would sputter.
> 
> Now, the PE Summit is so easy to start that I can actually burn wood when the temperatures outside are in the 60's. I need either a couple pieces of kiln dried lumber or a little starter brick, and I have a roaring fire in 10 minutes. The newer stoves, or at least my PE Summit, don't need paper and carboard to get them started.


 
I meant more like..."oh what a lovely Christmas that was, let's shove all the wrapping paper and boxes in the stove rather than throwing it out"....kind of thing, rather than using it as fire starting material.


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## Sprinter (Oct 16, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:


> Actually, no. Well, sort of, but more because I've heard of people burning off stuff like that in their stove. We have a firepit outside for that reason. Just burned off a few big cardboard boxes in a roaring fashion and it made me think of it. I imagine it would be quite a (short) blast of heat in a stove.


You're right, of course. In fact, it did happen to me once, back in the 80's (Earth Stove). I had a bit more creosote build-up than I thought and and burned some paper like that and it did give me a thrill when the stove began to roar and the pipe got red hot. Short lived, though. It may even have been around Christmas.


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