# Who owns a Toyota Prius and how do you like it?



## Nic36 (Jan 10, 2011)

I suspect many members do not own a Prius, but I figured I would ask anyway. Presently, I own only one vehicle-a 97 Tacoma 4X4. But, I was going through a green light in town late last month (December 2010) and a young gal ran the red light and "t-boned" me. Thank goodness she admitted to the cop that she ran the red light, because everyone going through the green light with me kept going. She missed all of them somehow. I had to have the alignment fixed on my truck, but I am still able to drive it and her insurance has since paid me to have it fixed. (It was an ordeal though.)  I really loved the truck and I realize now that replacing it with another is not an option as those smaller (not made now) trucks in good condition are outrageous. I can buy a black door and fender from a junk truck locally and then have the body work done. So, I can actually save a little by doing that way. I can also keep driving it as-is indefinitely.  

But, I have considered buying a little Corolla or Civic as a gas saver for longer trips and daily driving. I know owning two vehicles does not make financial sense. I had an older Camry I had just sold, betting I would never get into this predicament. 

Anyway, I have also had the wild idea of a buying Prius. I have found a couple for sale reasonably priced. If anyone owns one, I would appreciate their thoughts on it.


Wrecked Tacoma:

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp205/Woody35722/100_4464.jpg


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## yooperdave (Jan 10, 2011)

hahaha...should have named this post "who owns a prius and will admit it?"  at somepoint, people will see you driving that car...


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## Nic36 (Jan 10, 2011)

I will be the first to admit they are ugly. But, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But, gas is projected to hit $4.00 a gallon by this summer. I hope not. If it does though, I could live with how it looks.

I have been doing some reading and I have a very short daily commute to work-about a 10 minute drive. For a Prius to get it's maximum MPG, it must driven for about 15 minutes to warm up and do it's thing. I'm still leaning towards a Corolla at the moment.


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## semipro (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't own one but those I know that do have praise them.  I've heard they're not good in snow and that the traction control system doesn't work well. 

I think Garygary of the Builditsolar website and a poster here has one.


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 11, 2011)

My wife has a Camry hybrid and we love it.  The factory tires are useless here in the winter but with a decent set of all seasons the car has no problem in the snow.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 11, 2011)

I have a 2006 Prius that I bought new. I am very happy with how it's performed. It now has 111K miles on it an it has been rock solid reliable.  
The factory tires it comes with are crap, like most other cars these days from what I've seen. Replaced them at around 40K. with half-decent tires it's about as good in the snow as the other small or mid-sized front WD cars I've driven.  In 111K miles I've replaced the headlights, small 12V battery, tail-lights, tires, oil & filters and that's it.
I average right around 50mpg lifetime. Less in winter, better in spring & fall. I use a few tricks to get that: block the grill in winter, run the tires about 5 psi on the hard side, go easy on the heat & AC, but I drive same as always, 70-75mph on the freeway and no drafting or anything crazy like that.
It is not a dragster, that's for sure, but the torque of the elect motor helps a lot with acceleration whether stopped or passing. The ride is about equivalent to a Corolla.
You would likely be surprised at how roomy they are.  The Prius is classed as a mid-sized car, not a compact as most expect.  5 adults fit without squishing. That's where the value comes IMO.  Also cargo space is good since it's a hatchback.  I've basically never had anything that wouldn't fit in the hatch. I can even fit 10' dimensional lumber with the hatch closed and have done it many times. Oh, they also come very well equiped even in the base model. Mine doesn;t have a single option but is better outfited than my 2'nd car.
What else do you want to know? 
A great resource for geeking-out is Priuschat.com

ps. Any car with an internal combustion needs to get up to temp before hitting peak efficiency. Prius does pretty good on that front since it has a tiny 1.5L engine to get warm and it also has a nifty "thermos" that stores hot coolant for many hours.  A short commute will give you lower overall MPG, but you'll still get better mileage in a prius than say something rated at 35mpg.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 11, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> I don't own one but those I know that do have praise them.  I've heard they're not good in snow and that the traction control system doesn't work well.



Traction control on mine is more sensitive than I'd like, but I'd say it works well.  No good for doing donuts in a snowy parking lot though


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2011)

I have a 2006 Prius as well. Still low miles on it. I like its fuel economy, incredible engineering, luxury features in a mid-class car and good interior space. But there are some things I don't like about it too to be honest, though none affect its reliability. Primary gripe ares rear visibity, tv screen controls for heating/ac and super aggressive traction control that doesn't have a switch to turn off. Steering is kind of dead too with little or no road feel. I think they have addressed the climate control issue in the new models along with improved handling. The visibility looks better in the new Prius C and v models just announced. But the traction control issue is one I haven't heard a solution to yet.


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## Nic36 (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks for all the comments and keep them coming if you feel like it. What it boils down to is finding a used one that is not insanely expensive and taking that leap of faith. I've always trusted Toyota and at one time thought they could do no wrong. I think they have made some very unwise decisions over the last few years though (big and ugly Tacomas, big everything), but I won't go into that right now. I'm 39 years old, and believe it or not, have have only owned three vehicles in my lifetime. A 77 Corolla, an 84 Camry and currently my 97 Tacoma 4X4. All were great, with probably the Camry being the best of the bunch and the Tacoma second, although it's still proving it's toughness-even while wrecked.

However, I have felt that in the last few years Toyota quality has been slipping. I test drove a used 07 Camry a couple of weeks ago and was not impressed overall. The engine may have been good and may last as many miles as an older Toyota, but the body and interior just screamed out cheap. I have two sisters that have recently bought new Camrys within the last year. Both have complained about the overall (interior) quality compared to their older Toyotas. They have no complaints so far of reliability though.

One of things that I like about the Prius is that as far as I know, they are built in Japan-at least the 2007s are. Call me a snob, but I feel more comfortable buying a late model Toyota if it is made in Japan. That belief may be totally illogical as my American built Tacoma has been nothing but trouble free other than doing some routine maintenance over the 8 years I've owned it.

Midwest, you mentioned Priuschat.com. While being snowed in yesterday, I did a lot of reading there and elsewhere. Interesting site. Funny, you mentioned many of the things I read there, like traction in the snow, blocking the grill, extra air in the tires, etc. By the way, did you know there is an electric block heater (EBH) you can install that will keep things warm so the car can be more efficient when starting off in the morning? I read that most install them and put them on a timer to turn on about 3 hours before they leave in the morning.

I have found a couple of 2007 models for about $11,000.00. One has 83,000 ($9,900) miles on it and the other has 59,000 ($11,500) miles on it. I have big fears like the traction battery dying on me or some other insanely expensive component going out. I do know that the one with 83,000 miles has been recently checked out and serviced by the Toyota dealership and has a clean bill of health. But I know that is no guarantee. I haven't inquired about the one with 59K miles on it. Solar, I would consider a Camry hybrid, but they are out of my price range. 

One question. The Prius is rated a higher MPG for city driving, but the consensus seems to be that long highway miles are where it really shines. Do you find that to be the case?

I'm still not committed to anything. But I do find the idea of having one pretty cool, especially if gas skyrockets by this summer.  

BeGreen, how many miles do you have on yours? What are the colors that you all have? Currently, I have my eye on a black one and another that the seller has described as tan. I think it may actually be Driftwood Pearl. Color is not really a concern to me, although there is a green color I would care to avoid.

Also, I know the plug-ins are the next step. That is very appealing to me as it would be ideal for my short commutes to work and town.


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## nate379 (Jan 11, 2011)

Have you considered a VW Jetta TDI?  I get 45mpg with mine without much trouble and I know 50+mpg is acheiveable with carefull driving.

Nothing wrong with having 2 (or more) vehicles.  I have no reason to drive my truck 500 miles a week, but my Jetta would be of little value to haul firewood, my car trailer, lumber, etc.

My Dad runs a Corolla and gets 36-38mpg with it.

Can't say much about the Prius.  I think they are fugly and wouldn't own one, but that's my opinion.


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## homebrewz (Jan 11, 2011)

Does the Prius come in any color besides silver?  %-P 

I know a couple of folks that have Volkswagen TDI's and get 50 MPG with no trouble. Though, I have read that if you want to do a veggie oil conversion, the engines don't last that long (80 to 90 kmi) before they need a rebuild. 

If I was looking for a hybrid, I would get an older Honda Insight. The first generation (2000 to 2006) got over 60 MPG if you drove carefully. My friends had one and thats what they got, though I have seen claims of 70 MPG. They are little, and its basically a 2-seater. The second generation (2007 to present) is bigger, looks just like a Prius, and gets about 50 MPG.


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## begreen (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm a member of PriusChat, though I don't hang out there that much. There are some good tips to be found there and most folks are very helpful. They tend to get a bit geeky at times, so take some suggestions with a grain of salt. The best mileage we achieve is on country highways where the speed is a pretty steady 45-50mph and reasonably level. With a light foot, in warm weather you can start touching 60mpg. Once you get over 60 mph, mileage declines to about 55mpg, though it is a bit better using cruise control. If you like cruising at 70mph then expect about 50mpg. City mileage really depends on the terrain. I a fairly level city you can expect to get 45-50mpg. What astounds me is that we live in a crappy situation for mileage. Lots of hills, short trips of 5-10 miles and still get an average of 45mpg summer and 41 in the winter.

 I wouldn't worry too much about the battery. Toyota overengineered this car and designed the battery to last for the life of the car. Consumer's Report just tested a person's 2002 Prius with over 200K miles on it and compared it to the test results they achieved on the car when new. It was within .2mpg, still running on the orig. battery and very strong. We had some of the first Prius cabs here in Vancouver and Victoria BC, later in Seattle. They stand up very well under this kind of use and have racked up some really impressive mileage. 

I'm looking at adding a Hymotion battery kit. The local results have been impressive. A few folks are getting 75-150mpg depending on driving conditions. Though I think 65-75 is a better long term average. The car is paid for, so this will probably be our best bang for the buck. The car only has 21K miles on it. At this rate I expect it might outlast me .


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## Highbeam (Jan 11, 2011)

Remember that there are other hybrid vehicles, even from Toyota. There are also other cars that will be cheaper to run, even including fuel cost, than a hybrid. A lot of the hybrid allure, especially the prius with its distinctive looks, is to give the impression that you give a crap about the environment. It's a statement car. 

Fuel at 4$ is no big deal. Really, think about it. Your commute is 10 minutes long and hardly uses any fuel at all. When you consider that gas is now well above 3$ per gallon your potential savings is minimal. Hardly enough to justify the purchase price AND additional insurance and maintenance of the second "mpg" car. 

I commute 8 miles per day to work. I do it in a one ton diesel pickup getting 15 mpg because, moneywise, it makes sense and will continue to do so well after 4$ per gallon. It's not about needing to drive a truck, it's about the wisest choice.

If you want to make a statement, then go for it. Your Tacoma is an excellent and safe commuter.


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## Nic36 (Jan 11, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Remember that there are other hybrid vehicles, even from Toyota. There are also other cars that will be cheaper to run, even including fuel cost, than a hybrid. A lot of the hybrid allure, especially the prius with its distinctive looks, is to give the impression that you give a crap about the environment. It's a statement car.
> 
> Fuel at 4$ is no big deal. Really, think about it. Your commute is 10 minutes long and hardly uses any fuel at all. When you consider that gas is now well above 3$ per gallon your potential savings is minimal. Hardly enough to justify the purchase price AND additional insurance and maintenance of the second "mpg" car.
> 
> ...



You're exactly right. Mathematically, owning two vehicles with my short commute does not make financial sense. I had an older Camry until about 6 months ago. I knew it was not worth keeping, since I also had to pay insurance and upkeep on it, so I sold it. I never anticipated someone hitting my truck shortly thereafter. 

My idea of buying another one was mostly for convenience and a better ride quality. My Tacoma is not the best vehicle for long trips-no cruise control and it rides rough.

If I had any sense, I would borrow a spare vehicle from my folks (they have 4 for some unknown reason), have my truck fixed like new and move on.


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## Highbeam (Jan 11, 2011)

Very good. I can appreciate the comfort of a nice smooth and quiet ride. This has value, more value to some and less to others. If you value those creature comforts as much as the price tag then do it. I am a firm believer in buying what you want because you want it enough to pay for it.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 11, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> A lot of the hybrid allure, especially the prius with its distinctive looks, is to give the impression that you give a crap about the environment. It's a statement car.


Uh, le'see 111,500 miles / 50mpg= 2,230     111,500 / 30mpg for a comparable mid-size 4cyl car = 3,717
So there's 1,487 gallons (and counting) of unburnt gas out there somewhere, which is worth more than a statement to me.  If I didn't have to travel for work and had an 8 mile roundtrip commute I may have made a different choice.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 11, 2011)

Nic36 said:
			
		

> Midwest, you mentioned Priuschat.com. While being snowed in yesterday, I did a lot of reading there and elsewhere. Interesting site. Funny, you mentioned many of the things I read there, like traction in the snow, blocking the grill, extra air in the tires, etc. By the way, did you know there is an electric block heater (EBH) you can install that will keep things warm so the car can be more efficient when starting off in the morning? I read that most install them and put them on a timer to turn on about 3 hours before they leave in the morning.
> 
> .....
> 
> One question. The Prius is rated a higher MPG for city driving, but the consensus seems to be that long highway miles are where it really shines. Do you find that to be the case?



Yep, back when I was making the decision and for about 6 mos after I spent a lot of time on that site learning about the car.  I didn't get a block heater as I had to park on the street. Now with a driveway & no garage I am just too lazy to bother.  

I also get the best mileage on highways around 45-55mph. that's pretty common for most cars.  I don't see the higher MPG in the city. The EPA test isn't a very good simulation of actual driving conditions IMO.  As an example I had friends with an original Honda Insight which they used almost exclusively for short in-city trips. They complained about mileage in the upper 30's to lower 40's range

BG, I haven't looked into the plug-in convertion packages in a long time. What are prices like now?


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## semipro (Jan 11, 2011)

Highbeam said:
			
		

> Remember that there are other hybrid vehicles, even from Toyota. There are also other cars that will be cheaper to run, even including fuel cost, than a hybrid. A lot of the hybrid allure, especially the prius with its distinctive looks, is to give the impression that you *give a crap about the environment.* It's a statement car.



I tend to agree with you on that, that the actual "sustainability" of the car may not be what it seems to be.  However, I think there is some value in supporting the technology as a step to something that is truly "green".  If they came out with the Prius and no one bought them they might assume that there is no market for "green" cars.  We know better now.


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## begreen (Jan 12, 2011)

If it was just for the gas mileage I probably wouldn't have bought the car. What is really is amazing is the emissions reduction. over that same mileage. 

Midwest, how many brake jobs have you had during this time? Exhaust systems? Tuneups?


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 12, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> However, I think there is some value in supporting the technology as a step to something that is truly "green".



I think its more than that.  The current hybrids are good drivers that have the economic and environmental bonus.  They aren't anemic machines with no market or just freak market appeal.  The Camry hybrid was cheaper than a comparable V6, faster and gets much better gas mileage.  And, it was cheaper even after the credits for Toyota expired.  Strangely enough, it was also cheaper than a comparably equipped Prius.  A guy I work with just replaced his mid sized car with an Altima hybrid and couldn't be happier.

That said, I do my 9 mile expressway commute in a 10 year old 3/4 ton truck and probably will be doing so for a long time even with $120+ fill ups.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 12, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> If it was just for the gas mileage I probably wouldn't have bought the car. What is really is amazing is the emissions reduction over that same mileage.
> 
> Midwest, how many brake jobs have you had during this time? Exhaust systems? Tuneups?



That would be 0, 0, and 0. Scheduled maintenance only, plus what I mentioned in first post. 

Yep there are some other cool things that reduce emissions, like the bladder in the gas tank that greatly reduces evaporative loss of hydrocarbons.


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## begreen (Jan 12, 2011)

Exactly my point. These cars have very low per mile ownership costs, have incredibly low emissions, and do it in a roomy, practical package. It's quite a remarkable achievement and turning out to be a very practical car to own.

I guess folks in Japan are all trying to make a statement too. It's the #1 selling Toyota there in 2010.


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## Highbeam (Jan 12, 2011)

Context, go back and read the whole thing. There is more than one hybrid available if that technology floats your boat. One of the reasons that the prius sells so well is that it is butt ugly and distinctive. Allowing the owner to be making a loud statement about the decision.


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## begreen (Jan 12, 2011)

Prius sells better than it's peers because it is better designed. It gets better mileage and has a more flexible interior design with better legroom. Otherwise we would be driving the Honda Civic hybrid. The lack of a fold down rear seat, smaller rear seat leg room, poorer local driving gas mileage were the determining factors. Toyota technology is what is in several of the other competing cars. I prefer to get it from the source. 

I like the looks of the GenII Prius, though not so much the GenIII models. But looks are not the reason we bought the car. That's a false assumption. Practical considerations took precedence. I really wanted to by the Civic but featurewise the Prius won out. Still, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. My wife thinks Hearthstone soapstone stoves are ugly, and although I disagree, they'll never make it into our house. But that doesn't stop lots of folks from happily buying them.


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## Nic36 (Jan 12, 2011)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Although we disagree, my wife thinks Hearthstone soapstone stoves are ugly, so they will never make it into our house. But that doesn't stop lots of folks from happily buying them.



Haha. I can't remember for sure, but I think you snubbed my stove once-likening it to a refrigerator or maybe it was a washing machine. Forgive me if it wasn't you. It might of been BrotherBart or someone else. But, to each his own. If everyone liked the same thing, it would be boring world. (Plus, I didn't want to spend the extra $$$ on the Alderlea)

I finally got out today. I have been snowed in since Sunday. A Prius pulled up close to me at the grocery store. I gave it a once over, and they really don't look that bad. Several people have a problem with the shape. I assume it is designed that way to maximize the aerodynamics of the vehicle. Even if it is "ugly" for a good reason, I don't have a problem with it. I hate ugly for no reason. 

By the way, I have been looking on Autotrader and Craigslist and have seen some very high mileage Prius vehicles....2007s usually. Some have over 150,000 miles, but they are cheap-cheaper than a non hybrid Toyota of that year. They also appear immaculate from the pictures. Typically, 150,00 miles is nothing to a Toyota if it has been maintained. From what I am reading, the Prius may be an even bigger exception and could far outlast their gasoline counterparts.

I saw a blue 2007 Prius with 160K miles on it for $6900.00 by a dealer. A one owner car. I'm sure they would take less. I just wonder how big of a gamble buying one like that would be?


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## Highbeam (Jan 12, 2011)

Could be ugly like a blaze king?


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## sesmith (Jan 13, 2011)

[quote author="Nic36" date="1294707412"]

But, I have considered buying a little Corolla or Civic as a gas saver for longer trips and daily driving. I know owning two vehicles does not make financial sense. I had an older Camry I had just sold, betting I would never get into this predicament. 

Anyway, I have also had the wild idea of a buying Prius. I have found a couple for sale reasonably priced. If anyone owns one, I would appreciate their thoughts on it.  





> Don't overlook the Toyota Yaris, in your search.  We bought a Yaris hatchback a couple of years ago and love it.  Always am amazed how much stuff we can fit in it too.  Have had no problems with it to date.  We have owned a couple of Geo Prizms over the years (GM's rebadged Corolla) and like the Yaris much better.  It at least has the illusion of having more room inside...I know we can put more in it than in the Prizms and ride 4 people more comfortably in it.  I'm sure cost of ownership is lower than buying a Prius, though they're a more comfortable vehicle and technologically way cooler than a Yaris.


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## nate379 (Jan 13, 2011)

If you just view as a car as something to get you to work and back then I suppose, but people own vehicles for various reasons.  I have a truck, 2 cars, and a Jeeps... just me for a driver.



			
				Nic36 said:
			
		

> . Mathematically, owning two vehicles with my short commute does not make financial sense.


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## cdnxj (Jan 13, 2011)

Thought I would chime in here since there has been a bit of discussion on non-Prius hybrid models.  I drive a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, I have a 50 km commute on the highway.  I average around 20-25 mpg.  Not great but comparable to a 4 cyl SUV I guess.  The Highlanders are just too heavy to get the same mpg as the Prius.  Another thing, the "4wd" is a joke...the thing is a boat anchor in the snow.  And don't expect to use it to tow anything.  I got stuck on a boat ramp with a 14' aluminum, probably 500 lbs trailer included.  The traction control shuts everything down as soon as the tires slip.  No tire spin, no forward progress whatsoever.

These things have their place don't get me wrong.  But save your cash on the hybrid premium and get yourself a toyota 4 cyl or VW diesel.  My 0.02$.


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## btuser (Jan 13, 2011)

I'd rather go with the veggie car, but I can't find the grease.  Not as easy as you think.   I wonder what the Prius mileage would be without all the extra weight from the electric motors and such.  What if you put in a nice 3 cylinder or smaller diesel?


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## semipro (Jan 13, 2011)

btuser said:
			
		

> I'd rather go with the veggie car, but I can't find the grease.  Not as easy as you think.   I wonder what the Prius mileage would be without all the extra weight from the electric motors and such.  What if you put in a nice 3 cylinder or smaller diesel?



It was interesting to find that the Prius engine is not a standard Otto cycle.  
Its an Adkinson cycle engine.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle


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## Hydronics (Jan 14, 2011)

I have a 1st gen Prius company car, we also have Civic and Ford Escape hybrids. The Prius is economical but I've never driven anything that handled so poorly. Not the safest feeling vehicle either. Personally, I'd take the Escape then the Civic, the Prius would be my last choice. Just my opinion -selection of a vehicle is not just about fuel economy.


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## midwestcoast (Jan 14, 2011)

Hydronics said:
			
		

> I have a 1st gen Prius company car, we also have Civic and Ford Escape hybrids. The Prius is economical but I've never driven anything that handled so poorly. Not the safest feeling vehicle either. Personally, I'd take the Escape then the Civic, the Prius would be my last choice. Just my opinion -selection of a vehicle is not just about fuel economy.


1'st generation Prius are a very different vehicle than Gen 2 or 3. I've driven one and didn't like it much either.


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## PAJerry (Jan 15, 2011)

Joining in here late, but I have had a Prius since Nov. 2003 - the first gen. 2 in our area.  I currently have 136k miles on it. I've replaced the muffler and the 12 volt battery - not unexpected with our cold, snowy weather and lots of road salt on a 40 mile per day commute. I am conpletely satisfied with it and would buy another if needed.  When gas prices rose to $4, it really felt good saving so much money!  The hatchback design is a big plus since I haul a lot of chicken feed and garden materials at times. I really plan to take this car to 200k or beyond.


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## velvetfoot (Jan 15, 2011)

How about a MINI?  I love mine.  The hatch is great and it's got a 6 speed and handles great.  Gets consistant 40+ mpg.  Have 60k miles on it.  Only problem was a leaky water pump that I replaced myself (out of warrenty).  It has chain drive cams-my old VW tdi cam belt drove the water pump, and you didn't want to break that belt.  Comfy seating (in front).


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## begreen (Jan 16, 2011)

Rented a diesel Crossman in Italy last year. It was fun to drive and pretty easy on the diesel.


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## GaryGary (Jan 16, 2011)

Hi,
We are actually on our 2nd Prius.  First was a 2005, and I've documented the whole deal on it here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Vehicles/ourprius.htm

We traded in the first one at just over 100K miles.  I figure that compared to driving our Honda Pilot small SUV (or the Subaru Outback we had before that) that we saved 3467 gallons of gasoline, $10,400, ad 65,800 lbs of CO2 -- the calcs are explained here: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Vehicles/ourprius.htm#100K

We traded the old Prius in on a new one, so I guess that tells the story on how much we like it.

Most of our driving is highway driving, and I think the Prius is great for that -- I'd take it on a long trip any day over the Pilot -- its quieter and more comfortable.

We have snow on the ground here 6 months of the year, and the Prius is fine on snow.  My wife likes the Pilot better for snowy driving, but I think its more image than substance.  One downside for snow is that ground clearance is low, so you won't be going anywhere in 6 or 8 inches of heavy snow.

I've never quite understood the EPA city mileage being better than the highway -- we routinely get 50 mpg on the highway, but mostly high 40's around town.  Maybe the EPA city test is more severe than what we drive in.  

One thing I feel is that the Prius is not just another hybrid, its an exceptionally well engineered car from a fuel efficiency standpoint.  Its the combination of a great aerodynamic shape, low rolling resistance, attention to weight, the Atkinson cycle engine, electrically powered accessories, ... that just make it shine from an efficiency point of view.  Most of the other hybrids are not designed from the ground up with efficiency as the main focus -- they are just regular models with a hybrid power train added -- and the fuel economy numbers tend to reflect this.


I took a cut at how various cars compare for total cost of ownership (MSRP + fuel costs) for 100K miles.  I tried to cover a wide range of vehicles including hybrids and non-hybrids.  I think its an interesting read with  some mildly surprising results:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Vehicles/Compare/CompareLife.htm
This is kind of hard to do accurately (especially in getting comparable MSRPs), but I tried to make it clear what assumptions were made.

By the way, Toyota announced two new members to the Prius family a couple days ago -- a sort of station wagon model, and a baby Prius.    http://green.autoblog.com/ has the details on them.



Gary


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 16, 2011)

GaryGary said:
			
		

> http://green.autoblog.com/ has the details on them.



That claim about a fuel cell vehicle ready for 2015 is pretty bold.


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## xman23 (Jan 17, 2011)

A little late as well. but I have a 2006 Gen 2 with 93K. I agree with all the positive comments expressed here. Done nothing, except tires at 75K and oil changes with Mobil 1. It's never been back to the dealer. For what it is, one of the best cars I've ever had. I don't think you have to green blood like me, or a be a geek to drive one. Did you guys get the recall on the electric water pump. It's an issue with air being trapped at the pump. Always heard it was tough to get the air out after changing the coolant. Toyota is so gun shy, seams like they will fix anything. They have a all electric version that they asked if i want to test drive, unfortunately i was away and couldn't be there. 

Tom


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## GaryGary (Jan 17, 2011)

xman23 said:
			
		

> A little late as well. but I have a 2006 Gen 2 with 93K. I agree with all the positive comments expressed here. Done nothing, except tires at 75K and oil changes with Mobil 1. It's never been back to the dealer. For what it is, one of the best cars I've ever had. I don't think you have to green blood like me, or a be a geek to drive one. Did you guys get the recall on the electric water pump. It's an issue with air being trapped at the pump. Always heard it was tough to get the air out after changing the coolant. Toyota is so gun shy, seams like they will fix anything. They have a all electric version that they asked if i want to test drive, unfortunately i was away and couldn't be there.
> 
> Tom



Hi Tom,
We got the Toyota letter offering to replace the water pump on our 2005, but it was about a month after we had already traded it in.
Never had any problem with the water pump during the 101K miles we did drive the car.

Gary


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## begreen (Jan 17, 2011)

We just got that done. It does seem a bit of overreaction, but I can see how it might have been a possible issue for some people having the coolant changed at the local garage. Our old Accord caused a somewhat similar issue when you had a rube mechanic change the coolant. If you were sloppy about bleeding the system it could get an airlock in it.


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## xman23 (Jan 17, 2011)

I guess with air trapped in the pump, you don't circulate coolant. With no coolant moveing you may no get a over temp, before the engines and inverter frys. When I bring it in for the recall I'm going to have them replace the coolent. Also i'm going to replace the transaxel oil.

Tom


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 24, 2011)

If i were going for "green" i would lease a GM volt electric for $350 a month. Since i have been getting excellent service from GM for 35 years despite what the GM bashers have to say.  especially for short trips which are hard on ICEs  I did have a 1999 tacoma truck but got rid of it as it was not much of a work truck and i had a lot of problems with it. My GM trucks were much better suited as work trucks and i never have any problems with them. IMHO


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 24, 2011)

Hydronics said:
			
		

> I have a 1st gen Prius company car, we also have Civic and Ford Escape hybrids. The Prius is economical but I've never driven anything that handled so poorly. Not the safest feeling vehicle either. Personally, I'd take the Escape then the Civic, the Prius would be my last choice. Just my opinion -selection of a vehicle is not just about fuel economy.


I have been thinking about an escape hybrid to replace the family mover as i need it to seat at least 5. SO you like the escape ? whats your avg MPG? I may wait for the plug-in version.


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## begreen (Jan 24, 2011)

That was why we got the Prius. Seats 5 pretty comfortably with good back seat legroom. The Volt only seats 4 I believe. We tried the 2006 Jetta tdi, but the rear seat was just too cramped. Looks like they are improving that with the new mode. Note that the Prius v coming out soon is a bit taller and wagon like.


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## mainemac (Jan 25, 2011)

Add me to the list of very satisfied Prius owners.
Red 2004 2nd generation
I have 83,000 miles and average 45 mpg in winter and 50-55 summer. (though 40 mpg in this  brutal cold though all cars drop in this weather)
Figure if and when I make 200,000 miles will use 4,000 gallons compared with my Highlander which would be 12,000 (16 mpg).
8,000 gallons less pollution and $ 24,000 smackaroos in my pocket, assuming gas stays at $3 per gallon which of course it will

Best of all I can whip down back seats, open hatch and load it with lots of garbage, recycling material, 
Even my 9 foot surfboard fits in there.


Looking to trade in Highlander for electric mini or leaf or fusion or something electric.

Tom


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## TMonter (Jan 25, 2011)

Nic36 said:
			
		

> I will be the first to admit they are ugly. But, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> But, gas is projected to hit $4.00 a gallon by this summer. I hope not. If it does though, I could live with how it looks.
> 
> I have been doing some reading and I have a very short daily commute to work-about a 10 minute drive. For a Prius to get it's maximum MPG, it must driven for about 15 minutes to warm up and do it's thing. I'm still leaning towards a Corolla at the moment.



Also look at an older Geo Prism which is a Corolla except for a few body parts and you can usually pick one up for really inexpensive and in great condition. I have a 1995 Geo Prism I'm still driving and I have no real complaints.


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## TMonter (Jan 25, 2011)

trump said:
			
		

> If i were going for "green" i would lease a GM volt electric for $350 a month. Since i have been getting excellent service from GM for 35 years despite what the GM bashers have to say.  especially for short trips which are hard on ICEs  I did have a 1999 tacoma truck but got rid of it as it was not much of a work truck and i had a lot of problems with it. My GM trucks were much better suited as work trucks and i never have any problems with them. IMHO



Financially speaking leasing a car is the worst decision you can make unless of course your employer is paying for it.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 25, 2011)

TMonter said:
			
		

> trump said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not always, Sometimes the value of the car drops faster than your paying it off. Or in the case of a lease it drops faster than your monthly pmts I made a few killings with leases in the past.Also if you want a new car every 2 or 3 years ,you dont have to go through the trade it in and lose your shirt fiasco. I guess my employer is paying for it cuz im self employed and run my own business for 22 years now. SO my rule of thumb is if your going to trade in 2 or 3 years lease is great.If your going to keeo it forever of course you want to buy it. Im guessing with the volt 3 years is a lifetime for this new tech and the new and improved version may be much more capable. plus at the current purchase price i think your 5 yr PMT would be $599 at 0 interest. Lease looks good at $350.


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## Nic36 (Jan 25, 2011)

My coworker has a Geo Prizm and it will not die. You would have to know the owner of the car to appreciate it's durability. He literally does no maintenance on his vehicles. I don't even think he changes the oil. He has had the car ever since I started working with him. I think he has almost 200K miles on it and I know he has never changed the timing belt. He only fixes something when it breaks.

Leasing a car is not an option for many reasons. First of all, I don't drive enough miles to justify that...........and I'm pretty cheap.

I have not made up my mind on anything yet. I have learned to be patient. Anytime I rush into anything, I usually regret it.

However, right now, I am sorta shying away from a Prius. I am considering a Corolla LE though. I have my eye on two or three in my area at a good price with low miles.


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## ChillyNoMore (Jan 25, 2011)

Count me in as another happy Prius owner! I have a 2006 model and have been very pleased by the car's reliability, excellent fuel efficiency, and nice features. The fold down seats and built-in D-rings make hauling all sorts of stuff a breeze. In fact, I can fit all my windsurfing gear -- boards, sails, booms, and masts -- completely inside the car, no roof rack required!

The only down sides are that the car can't/shouldn't pull a trailer and I personally find the seats rather hard. As for the looks, I have decided that the car looks much better and sportier from the back side than from the front, so I just park it accordingly!


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## TMonter (Jan 25, 2011)

Nic36 said:
			
		

> My coworker has a Geo Prizm and it will not die. You would have to know the owner of the car to appreciate it's durability. He literally does no maintenance on his vehicles. I don't even think he changes the oil. He has had the car ever since I started working with him. I think he has almost 200K miles on it and I know he has never changed the timing belt. He only fixes something when it breaks.
> 
> Leasing a car is not an option for many reasons. First of all, I don't drive enough miles to justify that...........and I'm pretty cheap.
> 
> ...



So what year Corollas are you looking into? I know with my Prism the one thing I wish I had was the 4 Speed Automatic. My mileage would be 3-4 MPG better if I had it on the highway. Keep an eye on craigslist too, I have a friend who picked up a very nice Corolla for $5500 when it blue booked at more than $7500.

I haven't had to do a lot of maintenance on my Prism but it has had the new timing belt, water pump and I replaced the front axles last year due to the CV boots splitting and it was cheaper to buy new axles then reboot them. I change the oil about every 3k to 5k depending on the type of miles I drive.


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## Nic36 (Jan 25, 2011)

I am actually looking at Corollas in the 2003-2007 range. I have my eye on one 2004 LE model at the moment. It has a manual transmission. I have always driven manual transmission cars and I believe I would get better mileage and service out of a manual. My friend has about a 2004 or 03 model 5 speed that I drove one time and I really did not like the clutch. I don't know if that characteristic is normal for that generation Corolla or not. I need to test drive some to see. If so, I may have to look at automatics, which are much more common anyway.

An older Corolla is probably better made. But, I like the roof height of the new ones as my head can hit the roof on the older generation Corollas.

I haven't committed to anything just yet. I have plenty of time to find a deal. If I see a Prius cheap enough, I may yet buy one.


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## TMonter (Jan 25, 2011)

I prefer a manual myself actually but my wife doesn't drive a manual and trying to convince her to learn has so far been unsuccessful. Manual transmissions are easier to work on and have a tendency to last a lot longer than automatics.


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## Later (Jan 25, 2011)

I'd never buy a used electric/hybrid car. Way too many ??? regarding battery life and replacement costs.


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## SandManConservation (Jan 29, 2011)

I bought a Prius in 2005, still going, no major maintenance, no battery replacement, no complaints, except it makes an annoying beeping noise when I back up.


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