# 5 Tips on how to save energy in your house



## begreen (Jan 31, 2015)

This is a good primer. It's essentially a compilation of ideas we've discussed here. 
http://inhabitat.com/5-tips-to-cut-your-electricity-bill-with-green-energy-expert-david-johnston/


----------



## Lake Girl (Feb 1, 2015)

I had to chuckle that the editorial was sponsored by Marvin Windows and Doors  The seconds warehouse is an amazing place and only about 1-1/2 hours away from where we live.  It's the kind of place where you buy your windows before you build... some of the windows that have been returned due to sizing issues have real WOW value.

Good review of energy efficient upgrades ...


----------



## begreen (Feb 1, 2015)

Yes, I caught that, though the tips were good. Wish I had selected Marvin replacement windows when I did the remodel. Got Lindal's instead which are ok, except for the double-hung windows. Good tip about shopping a second's warehouse or Habitat store if there's one in your community. Good deals there.


----------



## Lake Girl (Feb 1, 2015)

Our Marvin windows are starting to get sad ... they've done the job for close to 25 years so we're back to window shopping.

When I get to Winnipeg or Thunder Bay, I try to stop into the Habitat Restore.  Always fun to wander through and see what is available - so much that can be reused or repurposed.  I hit the one in Winnipeg when Home Depot brought in a large number of old stock oak cabinet door and drawer fronts.  Cheap reno cost for our condo kitchen just have to build the base cabinets as the originals were cheapest builder cabinets from the 70s.  They were good enough as the condo has been used by the kids while attending school but needs some TLC now.  The list keeps getting longer


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 5, 2015)

Marvin windows are pricey!  I'm looking into getting new windows and I got a quote from them :

Project A (Whole House): WDB to Remove (15) existing window openings and replace with (9) Marvin Integrity Wood‐

Ultrex Traditional Double Hung, (5) 2‐Wide Traditional Double Hung and (1) 30 Degree Double Hung Bay w/ Roof (Full Tear

Out) Windows.  

Total = $28,480.00 (includes tax) ‐ $1,139.00 per month/25 months

‐Or deduct $3,850.00 if deposit is placed by February 28th, 2015 = $24,630.00 (includes tax) – no financing

Does that seem a lot?  I'm not sure what windows typically cost, seems a little high to me though.


----------



## begreen (Feb 5, 2015)

Not sure, when I got a quote they were close to the next bidder, but their rep was a lot farther away. Your work seems pretty extensive.


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 5, 2015)

15 openings is a fair few openings but at 24 grand that's about 1600 per opening, seems a little steep.  What was yours per opening if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## sesmith (Feb 5, 2015)

Wow.  I wish I could have got my wife to pay me that kind of freight when I replaced all ours over the years.  The quote you got is for replacing complete windows with new construction windows.  That's the way I did it on my house.  It is a lot more work than just popping in replacement vinyls in existing window openings.  I don't know if it's $1600 / window worth of work, though.  From an energy and resale value, I'm not sure it will ever pay back to do them this way.

On the windows, I originally put in all wood Marvins.  I did have issues with rot on the storm windows that I installed with my double hungs, and with rot on the casements that were not protected by storms.  The windows worked great all these years (20 +) I've had them in.  They are very tight and look great.   My last window was a picture window flanked with casements.  I finally did that one with a Marvin Integrity.  The extruded fiberglass exterior should prevent the rot issues I had with the wood windows.

The fit and finish on the Marvins is great.  The rot issues soured me some.  I wasn't planning on replacing them a second time!  This year, we had the house resided, and I just replaced the 3 rotted casements with decent vinyl replacements.  I also replaced all my Marvin wooden storms with top of the line Larson aluminum double tracks this year.  It just wasn't worth it to keep replacing rotted storm frames (I was on my second replacement on one of the windows), even though the wood Marvins looked better than the Larsons.  We also had to repair 2 sills on the existing  Marvin double hungs before wrapping all the trim.

So that's my Marvin story.  I would get some more estimates, if I were you, and also look at whether you could repair your existing windows and add storms instead.  Just an idea, if the windows are more or less sound.  My original windows weren't worth saving.  I can tell you, though, that you won't get wood these days that lasts like it did on the old windows.


----------



## begreen (Feb 5, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> 15 openings is a fair few openings but at 24 grand that's about 1600 per opening, seems a little steep.  What was yours per opening if you don't mind me asking?


We had a lot of custom work windows. A couple were huge 11'x5' sets with 2 double-hung and a large center fixed, all with custom divided lights. They were pricey. The overall price came to about $11K for 17 units, but that did not include any removal or installation. This was in 2006.


----------



## burnham (Feb 7, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> Marvin windows are pricey!  I'm looking into getting new windows and I got a quote from them :
> 
> Project A (Whole House): WDB to Remove (15) existing window openings and replace with (9) Marvin Integrity Wood‐
> 
> ...



 We replaced all (15) of our windows in 2013 with Anderson 200 series double hungs.  They are new construction windows, stain grade inside and white outside.  We had them trimmed out with 3.5" casing.  That work was around $12,000.  We also had new siding installed at the same time by the same contractor, so that might have helped keep the cost down.


----------



## Bret Chase (Feb 7, 2015)

I don't find that quote to be all that high.. for marvins.  replacing existing windows with new construction can be a complete PITA.  figure 2 guys 2 hours per window and new inside/outside trim and flashing...  then there's any potential siding issues.  that would be for a "normal" size window.  can easily get to $500/opening before even considering the cost of a window.  Once you get into large units... then you're adding 1 or 2... or 3 more men... more trim, more flashing... etc.

Windows can  be very, very expensive....  We built a medical office building back in 05 or so.... they spec'd LePage windows.... AL clad wood... the wind rating on them was well over 100MPH (2 miles from Atlantic Ocean.... less than a 1/2 mile from the shore side of the marsh.  Anyways, IIRC, there were 96 openings.... the bill for *just* the windows was over $100k... in '05.

Sad thing was those windows were just awful.  we had to have each installation inspected by the M'fr. all passed and certified... and the double-hungs were almost impossible to open.  

The problem with rot... is because they're wood.... there's only so much you can do about that.

I like Marvins... and Pella... but youll pay for them.  I absolutely hate andersons from personal experience.

barely relevant anecdote....  A while back, we expanded Little Harbor Window's manufacturing facility... their windows are solid mahogany...  the joinery was incredible on those windows...  and just silly money.


----------



## Lake Girl (Feb 7, 2015)

Bret Chase said:


> we expanded Little Harbor Window's manufacturing facility... their windows are solid mahogany... the joinery was incredible on those windows... and just silly money.



That would be due to the mahogany


----------



## STIHLY DAN (Feb 8, 2015)

I had silverline windows by Anderson put in. Also a French door from thermo pride. Then I got a new slider from a job site that was marvin. The French door just plan sucks. The windows are ok, should not have got the dual moving panels of the double hung. The marvin sliding door is amazingly smooth and tight. Everything about it is far superior to the silverline or thermo true at my place.


----------



## Lake Girl (Feb 8, 2015)

The Marvin windows here, which were "seconds", have held up fairly well for the 23 years they've been installed.  When they start to deteriorate, it is usually the wood swelling within the aluminum exterior frame but we live on the lake with high humidity levels.  We had 2 garden doors that were fiberglass encapsulated.  Fiberglass on one held up fine but the wood behind it has rotted. 

Looking into Jeldwin PVC for replacements...


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 8, 2015)

I just spoke to the local Pella shop and somebody is coming out on friday to give me a quote.  I know what's involved with installing the windows, I used to be in construction but I just don't have the time or anybody to help.  I might do the ground floor and have them do the second floor to save a little.  I still feel the quote is too high.  According to consumer reports October 2014 Marvin integrity fiberglass window 3x5 ft cost 400.  my openings are 3x4 so that should run a little cheaper, but let's say it's the same,  That's leaving 1200 for labor and materials?  I can't see more than a couple hours per window, and materials shouldn't run over 200. that leaves a good 800-1000 in labor per window?  If so I should start doing that!  I know you have to pay for windows but looks like robbery to me!  I'll soon see what I get quoted for at Pella.

They also quoted 4400 to replace our patio doors with their base line sliding patio doors... 

I'm looking at wood clad with aluminum.  I don't really like PVC and I'm unsure about fiberglass.


----------



## sesmith (Feb 8, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> I'm looking at wood clad with aluminum.  I don't really like PVC and I'm unsure about fiberglass.



As far as the fiberglass is concerned.  It should move less than vinyl with temperature.  It is also paintable like wood (unlike vinyl).  That's the theory, anyhow.  That's why I did my last Marvin with the Integrity line.  From the outside, the integrity is indistinguishable from my wood Marvins, and the inside of the window is wood.  I also share your dislike for vinyl.  The only reason I ended up with vinyl on the 3 rotted Marvin casements, was because we were starting the siding job and could get vinyls made to size within a week.  They are also in the kitchen and a bathroom...good locations for vinyl anyway.  They are nice windows but the aesthetics definitely are not the same.

FWIW, the clad Marvins of the same vintage as my wood ones also had rot problems, from what I've read.  You just didn't notice it until it was way too late.  I hope that all has changed, as they are really nice windows, otherwise.  We also have a Pella patio door that has been in for 10-15 years and that has been fantastic.


----------



## begreen (Feb 8, 2015)

The Marvins we got a quote for were top of the line, wood, custom divided light windows in the cottage series. They definitely have cheaper windows available. Here is a set of the smallest windows that Lindal ended up making and then a shot of one of the large units right after new floors went in.


----------



## georgepds (Feb 20, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> Marvin windows are pricey!  I'm looking into getting new windows and I got a quote from them :
> 
> .....Windows.....Total = $28,480.00 (includes tax).....Does that seem a lot?  .


 
FWIIW,back in 1990 ( I know quite a while ago) 27 anderson double panes cost $4000.. delivered to the door, not installed.


At 3% inflation (~avg fed target rate) that would double the cost today to ~$8000, much cheaper than teh $28k you list.


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 20, 2015)

I wont be going with anyone I got quotes from.  Looks like I'll be getting supply only and I'll fit the windows myself.  Looking at more depth into their quote : 3700 for patio doors.  Pella quoted the same, for pvc which is cheaper and I don't like.  I looked in lowes.  Found the pella 450 series wood patio doors.... for 1400.  So two grand to install patio doors?  Actually more than that as I'm sure the PVC ones are cheaper.  I'll see what I can get for supply only. I'm guessing around 400ish a window.  No way am I paying anyone two grand for less than a days work fitting new patio doors.


----------



## valuman (Feb 21, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> I wont be going with anyone I got quotes from.  Looks like I'll be getting supply only and I'll fit the windows myself.  Looking at more depth into their quote : 3700 for patio doors.  Pella quoted the same, for pvc which is cheaper and I don't like.  I looked in lowes.  Found the pella 450 series wood patio doors.... for 1400.  So two grand to install patio doors?  Actually more than that as I'm sure the PVC ones are cheaper.  I'll see what I can get for supply only. I'm guessing around 400ish a window.  No way am I paying anyone two grand for less than a days work fitting new patio doors.


I'd suggest taking a look at the Integrity window, which is a Marvin. We installed eight of them in 2014 and are quite happy with the results this winter. They are well made, but not bearing the Marvin branding, lower cost and were recommended by several people I know in the building trades. I'm not sure who makes windows for Lowe's.


----------



## DBoon (Feb 21, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> I wont be going with anyone I got quotes from. Looks like I'll be getting supply only and I'll fit the windows myself.


My recent experiences have been that if I separate the supply from the install, I get a much, much better rate on the install.  Why not try to get a separate install rate from a local carpenter who has experience installing windows?


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 22, 2015)

Integrity is what I was quoted for.  I do like them and prefer them to Pella.  I went in today to speak to them a bit more and got a quote for supply only.  If i get a standard size which I can probably make work it's about $550 per unit.  If I go for actual dimensions of my openings it shoots up to 680.  Funny how a couple of inches does that just because it's not a standard size.  Not sure if i'll be able to make it work or not with the standard size. I need 20 windows of that size and at 130 dollars extra per window it's around 2600.  If I can get the standard size to work I'll be looking at about 11,000. Much better than the original quote.  Though that did install a bay window which I know adds a lot.  I'll probably do what you said DBoon and get a quote from a local carpenter.  I'll probably do all the downstairs windows but I don't fancy doing upstairs by myself.


----------



## drz1050 (Feb 22, 2015)

Just recently replaced 4 windows at my place... 3 replacement double hung, one new construction slider.

Look for sales. Buy the windows, then get them installed by a contractor/ carpenter. This saved me a LOT.

None of mine were standard size, went with Modern View windows and the total cost for the windows was ~700. Size didn't matter up until something like 50+", price for the replacements was all the same, the new construction was more. Paid something like $800 for the install. If they were all replacements it would've been cheaper, the new construction window required a full re-frame. $800 PER window is insane.

It boggles my mind what some people will pay for windows...


----------



## begreen (Feb 25, 2015)

Here's a hundred more tips for saving energy around the house:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/100-ways-to-save-energy/


----------



## valuman (Feb 25, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> Integrity is what I was quoted for.  I do like them and prefer them to Pella.  I went in today to speak to them a bit more and got a quote for supply only.  If i get a standard size which I can probably make work it's about $550 per unit.  If I go for actual dimensions of my openings it shoots up to 680.  Funny how a couple of inches does that just because it's not a standard size.  Not sure if i'll be able to make it work or not with the standard size. I need 20 windows of that size and at 130 dollars extra per window it's around 2600.  If I can get the standard size to work I'll be looking at about 11,000. Much better than the original quote.  Though that did install a bay window which I know adds a lot.  I'll probably do what you said DBoon and get a quote from a local carpenter.  I'll probably do all the downstairs windows but I don't fancy doing upstairs by myself.


Doing that many at once is a heavy load to carry when the check writing happens. I've been doing them a few at a time for years now. We started with the worst offenders which were very old, single pane, double hung windows with no weather stripping at all. On a windy night yo could watch a candle flame flicker in then breeze on the upwind side of the house. I put in replacement windows from The Home Depot myself at about $200/ea but this winter, after about ten years, I see some fogging in one of those. I'll probably go with new Integrity windows there before too much longer but will haver to see where they fit into the budget. There are many more upgrades I can make that will result in a bigger impact on comfort and heat retention than replacing those replacement windows.


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 26, 2015)

valuman said:


> Doing that many at once is a heavy load to carry when the check writing happens. I've been doing them a few at a time for years now. We started with the worst offenders which were very old, single pane, double hung windows with no weather stripping at all. On a windy night yo could watch a candle flame flicker in then breeze on the upwind side of the house. I put in replacement windows from The Home Depot myself at about $200/ea but this winter, after about ten years, I see some fogging in one of those. I'll probably go with new Integrity windows there before too much longer but will haver to see where they fit into the budget. There are many more upgrades I can make that will result in a bigger impact on comfort and heat retention than replacing those replacement windows.



I've been thinking about this too.  Now I've got the quote broken down a little more from Marvin it doesn't seem as bad.  The door installs still seem ridiculous, not sure why it cost two grand to install a patio door.  Maybe if it took close to a week.  For the windows themselves it looks to be roughly 1000 per window.  That's full tear out, cutting back the siding and putting new exterior trim.  About 320 dollars in labor per window.  Still quite pricey but not as bad as I originally thought.  I may see about getting all of the upstairs done by them and doing downstairs by myself a few at a time.  I'll either install the patio doors myself or pay a carpenter to do the install.


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 26, 2015)

valuman said:


> I'd suggest taking a look at the Integrity window, which is a Marvin. We installed eight of them in 2014 and are quite happy with the results this winter. They are well made, but not bearing the Marvin branding, lower cost and were recommended by several people I know in the building trades. I'm not sure who makes windows for Lowe's.



I just realised you're living in VT too.  Did you get your integrity from windows and doors by brownell? Would you mind telling me what size you got and what you paid per unit?


----------



## Holzstapel (Feb 26, 2015)

With the F55 heating the house now, we realized just how bad the 8' slider in our home is at keeping the cold out.  I've always known it was bad, but now we really feel it.  I'm not sure of the age or the manufacturer and I've looked all over the frame for information.  On Monday I ordered a new Andersen 400 Series 8' Glider.  Without installation the price came to $2200.  Instead of pine, I opted for the oak interior, sliding screen, SmartSun glass and nice oil rubbed bronze hardware.  Ordered it from the local lumber yard instead of Home Depot.  It arrives the 3rd week of March, but before then I need to find someone to install it.

I also have windows on both sides of the slider that I need to replace and the 4 giant windows above the slider to eventually replace.  None of these windows are efficient in keeping the cold out.  I hope to have the two lower ones replaced sometime before next winter.


----------



## valuman (Feb 27, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> I just realised you're living in VT too.  Did you get your integrity from windows and doors by brownell? Would you mind telling me what size you got and what you paid per unit?


I'd have to dig up receipts because the spreadsheet I was tracking my home improvement costs in was lost. I purchased my windows through Biben's Hardware/Building Supply and had a carpenter install them with me helping. All windows were selected from their standard sizes and framing was adjusted to fit the windows as needed. 

I believe there's a Biben's store in the B-Town area now, so you might check with them. I was able to negotiate a 10% discount off the quoted pricing because of the amount I was purchasing from them for the projects we did last year. Now I'm in their system with the "contractor discount" included for all my purchases there.


----------



## Shane Collins (Feb 27, 2015)

valuman said:


> I'd have to dig up receipts because the spreadsheet I was tracking my home improvement costs in was lost. I purchased my windows through Biben's Hardware/Building Supply and had a carpenter install them with me helping. All windows were selected from their standard sizes and framing was adjusted to fit the windows as needed.
> 
> I believe there's a Biben's store in the B-Town area now, so you might check with them. I was able to negotiate a 10% discount off the quoted pricing because of the amount I was purchasing from them for the projects we did last year. Now I'm in their system with the "contractor discount" included for all my purchases there.



Thanks.  I just had a look as I didn't know bibens supplied Integrity windows.  Looks like it's their Springfield store only.  That's a four hour round trip.  Not sure I'd save anything there! thanks for the help though.


----------



## valuman (Feb 28, 2015)

Shane Collins said:


> Thanks.  I just had a look as I didn't know bibens supplied Integrity windows.  Looks like it's their Springfield store only.  That's a four hour round trip.  Not sure I'd save anything there! thanks for the help though.


It might not hurt to get a quote from them, without telling where you live. If it's significantly lower it'll give you options to figure out delivery, or use to negotiate with Brownells.


----------

