# Cleaning the Jotul F 400 Castine - Secondary Air removal



## cycloxer (Jan 1, 2010)

Somebody asked about cleaning the Castine. Well I took out my Secondary Air Assembly today by rotating the two latches on the side and removing it through the front door. You can also take out the back plate and 3 fire bricks. This then gives you a clear shot up the flue w/o moving the stove. No tools required. You can do this with your hands and a little careful maneuvering. Then you could either brush your flue from the top or bottom. Piece of cake. I have attached a few pictures.

Also, in Europe the top cover is not secured to the stove - it simply rests on top of the stove with gravity. I guess there is some regulation requiring access to the flue w/o tools. So, you could remove the two 10mm bolts on eithe side if you so desired to make access even easier. I prefer to have my stove top secured and I don't find it that difficult to disassemble - a couple minutes of effort.


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## Soadrocks (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for sharing! Us, Castine owners appreciate it!


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## Frostbit (Jan 1, 2010)

Nice work, again! Thanks for the tutorial and photos. 

I need to take my secondary out and take a look, mainly because I have a section of the gasket that seals on the RH side is hanging out loose. I see the flat gaskets in your pictures...they must be just set in and are pressure fit, without adhesive?

Another question, is the flue accessible for cleaning (from my roof) without removing the back plate/fire brick assembly? I want to be able to sweep everything top down into the firebox for cleanup, if possible. 

Did you have your stove top removed in any of the photos?

THanks


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## cycloxer (Jan 2, 2010)

The side gaskets just lay on the shelf where the secondary asssembly sits. They shouldn't be too difficult to replace. They may have had some adhesive at some point, but they kind of get sandwiched into place.

You don't need to remove the back plate to clean the flue, though this takes about 1 minute to do w/o any tools.

Here is a pic of w/ the stove and back removed from when I installed the stove.


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## Frostbit (Jan 2, 2010)

I was referring to your first series of pics when you say "back plate", it appears to be the embossed plate in the back of the firebox. You show it removed laying on the floor. You say "no tools required"....what holds this in/up? Your last post of when you moved the stove into the house, you removed the back of the stove, and you refer to this also as the "back plate", so I'm kinda confused. I don't want or need to remove the outside/back/rear of the stove, or the top.  I just wanted to know if the embossed back burn plate comes out the door, how to do so, and if it needs to come out to allow top down cleaning of the flue. 

I definitely want to take the secondary air assembly out to reseat the perimeter gaskets. Figured a stove and flue cleaning would be a good idea at the same time, IF I can brush from the top and push everything into the firebox where i can take all the residue out with my shop-vac.

Thanks


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## cycloxer (Jan 2, 2010)

Okay, you don't have to take the outer Back Plate off of the stove for cleaning. We only did that to lighten the stove so that two of us could pick it up more easily and walk it up the stairs.

The Burnplate Back inside the firebox just slides up a bit and then twists right out exposing the 3 firebricks. This takes literally 15 seconds to take out the front door w/ no tools. You could do this to give you more access to the flue for cleaning, but it is not necessary. Just be careful w/ your firebricks when you take them out so that you don't damage them.

After you remove the Secondary Air Assembly I would put a small cardboard box inside the stove and brush from the top down. Then you will get most of it in the box. You can simply brush the remainder out of the stove. You definitely have to take out the Secondary Air Assembly because if you do not everything you brush out of the flue will fall on top.

You could swing the clamps forward and then pres up on the front on the Secondary Air Assembly. This will give you enough room to carefully reseat the side gaskets. You don't even need to remove the assembly to do this unless you want to replace the gasket at the back. If your stove is relatively new I am sure this is still in good condition.


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## Frostbit (Jan 3, 2010)

Sounds good. Soon as we get a warm spell for a day or two and I don't have to run the stove, I'll tackle it. Thanks for your posts!


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## Frostbit (Jan 3, 2010)

Got me thinking about one more thing, as I look at your photos.

Late last summer I ran my stove a few days during a cold snap, and I could smell smoke when she ran. I determined it was leaking out at the stove outlet; on my stove its oriented at a 90 so my flue is straight up. The stack came off, and I removed the two 10mm bolts holding this cast piece to the back of the stove. While I had it off, I looked into the stove, under my stove  . There is a rectangular cast iron segment that stands up, I now presume on the secondary chamber section, and nearly touches the bottom of the stove top. It appears to be a baffle. I actually reached in and took it out through the now removed flue hole. What I remember about it when I put it back in, is it will only go one way.

Question is, did you see this when you dropped the secondary section out? I don't see it in your photos.


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## cycloxer (Jan 3, 2010)

Yes, it is a small rectangular baffle plate that simply rests on top of the Secondary Air Assembly. There are several small features on that act as grooves to support this baffle and it can only sit in them one way. It is pretty self-explanatory once you have it out.


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## kmathers (Jan 3, 2010)

Much thanks to cycloxer. I dropped out the secondary burn baffle out of my Jotul Castine and couldn't get it back in. Removing the stove top did it for me, couldn't get it from inside the stove.  Is it really necessary to put the stove top bolts back in?  They are a pain.


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## cycloxer (Jan 3, 2010)

No, you don't have to put the bolts back in. In Europe they are removed. Just remember that the lid top is loose if you go to move the stove.


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## Frostbit (Jan 3, 2010)

cycloxer said:
			
		

> Yes, it is a small rectangular baffle plate that simply rests on top of the Secondary Air Assembly. There are several small features on that act as grooves to support this baffle and it can only sit in them one way. It is pretty self-explanatory once you have it out.



So, if it rests on top of the secondary assembly, does it fall out when you drop the secondary? If so, how do you reset it trying to put the whole mess back up in one piece?


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## cycloxer (Jan 3, 2010)

It has slots that hold it into position. You can either replace it from the top, put it back on the secondary before you put it back on, or if you can fit your hands between the secondary and the smoke deflector you can do it that way. It's not a big deal.


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## kmathers (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks again cycloxer for the info on the bolts.  If you drop the secondary in from the top the  rectangular baffle plate is a cinch. Fitting your hands in there from inside the stove would be tough as I am thin and I can't get my hands in there.  This thread is a great resource - the stove dealer was of no help at all.


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## cycloxer (Jan 10, 2010)

I'll admit it is not easy to get to that baffle plate, but if you have ever worked on a modern German car, this is a piece of cake in comparison.


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## GDuncanson (Jan 17, 2010)

just wanted to say thanks for this thread topic, we have a warm spell this weekend and began to clean my castine today for the first time and it slowly dawned on me that there has to be any easier way to do it. Thanks again.


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## Frostbit (Jan 20, 2010)

I understand the top does not need be bolted down, but I would prefer mine to be. With that, I need to re-gasket my secondary manifold. Reading this thread, I am still confused. I don't see any bolts to remove the top, so I'm assuming they are UNDER the secondary manifold. Or, can I get at them by lifting the stack and taking the rear flue outlet off? I see where one guy put his secondary back in after the top was removed, as he couldn't get it through the door. 

I want to clean the stove real well when I go to install the new gaskets. My thoughts are to remove the top to make it easy and I can get at everything. 

Line out the process if you would please!


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## cycloxer (Jan 20, 2010)

If you remove the flue outlet you can reach into the stove and gain access to the two 10mm bolts that secure the top plate. They are located on either side. In Europe these bolts are supposed to be removed at installation, so they are not necessary. Then you can take the top off of the stove. The Secondary Air Ass'y is more easily removed and you will have full access to its associated gaskets. This is not difficult to do at all.


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## Skier76 (Jan 20, 2010)

cycloxer said:
			
		

> I'll admit it is not easy to get to that baffle plate, but if you have ever worked on a modern German car, this is a piece of cake in comparison.



LMAO! Love it! Been there, done that. I now know what to expect when I attempt this come spring.


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## Skier76 (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok, I know this thread is older, but I had some pics for when I did this job a few months back.

First, I removed the back plate an the firebricks (img 4983, 4984)

I was able to get the plate/baffle out fairly easily from there. img 4986 shows the plate out of the stove with the vertical plate still on top. That plate just drops into place...no bolts secure it.

4988, 4989 & 4990 are some random shots of the baffles.I thought it would be much thinner. But it shows why it takes up some real estate in the firebox.

I tried like you know what to get the baffle/plate back into the stove. It was a bear...and I gave up. I removed the two bolts holding the stove top on and in 7 seconds, had the plate comfortably resting in its spot. img 4991

After that, I put the other plate on top of the baffle/plate. img4992

Once that was set, the top plate (cover if you will) went back onto the stove. You'll have to angle your hands between the baffle and the top plate to get the bolts secured. I started by hand tightening. First, I put a little anti seize on the bolts. After hand tightening, I used a small 10mm wrench to snug it up. I didn't torque it down with everything I had; just enough to keep it snug. I've done a few burns thus far, no leaks; everything is happy.

My intent was to to access the indoor pipe for cleaning. I have too many bends from the outside. Mission accomplished.

Hopefully, this will help someone out if they attempt to remove the baffle/plate.


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## stacks (Oct 31, 2012)

This is awesome info Thanks for posting


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## markd5446 (Oct 14, 2013)

I've been fighting with the secondary air assembly for at least two hours and cannot figure out how to turn it, or angle it properly to get it out the front door.  I've rotated the two latches, can lift it and slide it around, but it just won't come out.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

It's much easier to remove the top. There are two (10mm?) bolts on the underside that hold the lid down. You will see the lid is gasketed, it is designed to be removed for cleaning. You can put the bolts back when done or leave them off. The weight of the lid is sufficient to seal the gasket.


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## markd5446 (Oct 14, 2013)

I have tried to get to the two 10mm bolts, but that seems impossible without removing the secondary air assembly.  If I can get that out, I plan on removing those two bolt and leaving them out so future cleaning is easier.


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

It shouldn't be that bad. I have done it, but maybe I have smaller hands?


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## markd5446 (Oct 14, 2013)

Just to be sure, they are the bolts that are positioned to the extreme left and right side of the stove, going up into the cover right?


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

I thought the bolts were more in the front and back center, above the baffle and secondaries. It's been several years though. Let me see if I can dig you up a picture.


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## begreen (Oct 14, 2013)

This thread offers some tips for removal.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jotul-castine-400-top.8257/


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## markd5446 (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks. I'll check it out.


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## theentwives (Dec 5, 2013)

Well, this is not as easy as it sounds.  We can't get the back plate to move at all.  My husband has been doing it by disconnecting the pipe and since we found this thread, thought we'd tackle it without moving the stove this time.  Would anyone be willing to post more details about this procedure?  Do the sides come off first?  We are confused!

Edited to update:  Got the back plate out, now we're baffled by the baffle.  Do you do anything with the tabs or just lift and twist?


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## rijim (Dec 5, 2013)

The install instructions call for the bolts to be removed during install if I remember correctly.  Just curios, are your secondary tubes collecting fly ash or creosote?
Jim


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## theentwives (Dec 6, 2013)

It's been accomplished but here are a few things I wish we'd have known so it may help others.  I'm sure we're not the only newby's out there!  (And we certainly could not have done it without this thread!)

We're certain if we'd have moved the tabs on the baffle first, the back plate would have been much easier to get out.

Unless you're hercules (and can see thru cast iron), take off the top to put the baffle back in.  We didn't find the space that tiny and my husband could get his hand up there to tighten the bolts.  In fact, why not just do that in the first place? 

We didn't have new gaskets on hand and should have probably replaced them while we had it all apart.

There was quite a bit of soot and kreosote on top of the baffle, if that's what you mean.

Thanks to all!


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## Ski-Patroller (Apr 7, 2014)

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that taking the top off the stove requires moving the flue upwards which is what I would like to avoid.   If I get the stove pipe off the vertical outlet, I can vacuum out the top of the stove through the outlet.

I'm going to have to look at removing the baffle from inside the stove.  Even after looking at the diagrams, I've never understood how the whole thing went together.    Cycloboxers pictures were a big step in the right direction.  Maybe I'll be able to do it that way this summer.


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## Ski-Patroller (Sep 2, 2014)

Ski-Patroller said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that taking the top off the stove requires moving the flue upwards which is what I would like to avoid.   If I get the stove pipe off the vertical outlet, I can vacuum out the top of the stove through the outlet.
> 
> I'm going to have to look at removing the baffle from inside the stove.  Even after looking at the diagrams, I've never understood how the whole thing went together.    Cycloboxers pictures were a big step in the right direction.  Maybe I'll be able to do it that way this summer.




OK, This weekend we removed the baffle, cleaned the flue and got the baffle back in.   It wasn't that hard except for the gaskets.   There is one long gasket (part #36) that goes all the way around from the left burn plate across the back burn plate and then over the right burn plate.   I think this one can be installed after putting the baffle back in, buy slightly lifting the baffle and pushing the gasket into the crack.   There are two short gaskets (part #33) that go some where on each side burn plate.  I'm not 100% sure where they go, or how to get them there.    I ran the stove without the short gaskets and I think it does affect the secondary air operation.   The stove was hot, but I did not see any significant secondary burn at the small holes, and the glass got dirtier than normal.   

Does anyone know exactly where the short gaskets go, and is it possible to put them in properly without pulling the top of the stove?

Thanks


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## jesco3 (Sep 17, 2014)

I've seen that people haven't been having any issue with removing the back burn plate...but we have been working like crazy to try and remove it.  Mine has cracked (after 5 years?  seriously? yikes)  So, any suggestions.  We practically have the whole thing apart and I saw that folks were able to remove this without removing anything.  What are we doing wrong?


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## Ski-Patroller (Sep 17, 2014)

If you have the secondary air baffle out, either through the front or the top, there should not be anything holding the back burn plate.  It is only held in place by the secondary air baffle.  It should either lift straight up or tip forward a little and come right out.  

Could it be held in by stove cement or by ash filling in all the spaces?  Have you vacuumed all the ash etc out of the firebox? 

You might check out my thread "Thoughts on cleaning a Jotul Castine"


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## jesco3 (Sep 18, 2014)

Thanks for the reply!  I think it is cemented in there, but the cement itself could stand to be replaced, so my feeling is it's not hindering the extraction...but the other issue is it seems like toward the top of the burn plate on either side is a little lip or indentation that will only allow it to be lifted so far up, inhibiting your ability to pull it straight up and out.  And the back is angled so you can't necessarily pull it forward.  Hard to explain...I'm including some lousy pictures to try and illustrate what I mean.


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## jesco3 (Sep 18, 2014)

jesco3 said:


> Thanks for the reply!  I think it is cemented in there, but the cement itself could stand to be replaced, so my feeling is it's not hindering the extraction...but the other issue is it seems like toward the top of the burn plate on either side is a little lip or indentation that will only allow it to be lifted so far up, inhibiting your ability to pull it straight up and out.  And the back is angled so you can't necessarily pull it forward.  Hard to explain...I'm including some lousy pictures to try and illustrate what I mean.




UPDATE - got it!  I had to have a buddy take a small crowbar and jiggle the side piece from the inside (after removing the screws) so that I could work the burn plate free.


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## Ski-Patroller (Sep 18, 2014)

You have the secondary air baffle out, correct?   If so you should not need to loosen the side burn plates at all to get the rear burn plate out.  It should just lift a little and pull forward.  There should be nothing holding it down..  It should not be cemented in, and won't need to be when you put it back.

I am not at my cabin, so I can't compare mine to your pictures.   I see the lip you are talking about, but if mine has it, it did not cause any problems.   How old is your Castine?  Mine is about 10 years I think (I bought it used so not positive).


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## Bubba Ray (Oct 12, 2014)

Just found this forum and I am glad I did! I have the f400 with the double doors. It has been in use since 2004 with no issues but I wanted to give it a good cleaning after ten years. This thread was just what I needed, did it all in about 2 hours. It was a bit of a struggle to remove and reinstall the top baffle but was able to do it without removing the top of the stove. The two small gaskets held their shape so it was easy to decide where they went. The bricks where in good shape just needed cleaning out. Hope this gets me by for ten more years.


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## Skier76 (Oct 13, 2014)

Glad this thread is still helping people out!


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## Beemer (Oct 14, 2018)

This forum has been very helpful. I would like to add some info that might help in getting the main baffle out the front door of the Jotul 
F400. I could not get my baffle out until I saw a picture of the upper baffle plate on Skier76's post (Oct 13 2012). With the upper baffle plate in place, you cannot lift and tilt the main baffle enough to remove it. If you can reach above the main baffle- small hands help-it's a tight fit, and lift the upper baffle plate out of it's slot and lay it down. This will allow the main baffle to be tilted enough to side it out the front of the stove. There is no need to unbolt the top. To reinsert the baffle simply lay the upper baffle plate in the front area of the main baffle and lift and tilt into place. Once positioned properly, reach up over the front of the main baffle and position the upper baffle plate in its slots. Again, it's a tight fit but it really makes this an easy procedure.


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## EbS-P (May 7, 2019)

I just removed and reinstalled the secondary baffle *with the top on* and bolted. I’m posting procedures for, well mostly for myself as this post comes up first when I google Jøtul F400 cleaning.

1 undo baffle latches.
2 lift rear of baffle and remove rear plate by lifting strait up
3 remove fire bricks
4 lift left side of baffle and move as far up then a bit to the left and forward.  Not to far forward but more to the side.
5 tilt Right side baffle down *back first*. While rotating right corner *forward* then down.

6 Remove short gasket pieces.

To reinstall follow steps in this reverse order.


4,5,3,2,6,1

Hope this is helpful. It will be for me next year. Many thanks to the OP. 
Evan


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## kman82 (Aug 27, 2022)

how did any of you get the baffle latches to rotate/twist forward? although i've seen some whose have hex bolts in pics, mine are flat and almost flush like in the attached picture. I've tried to yank the latches with different wrenches, hit with a hammer, etc. to no avail. Any tips most appreciated...


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## EbS-P (Aug 27, 2022)

Penetrating oil and bigger tools might be my next step. 

Alternatively do have access to the top.  Can you reach in the outlet and remove the shipping bolts on the top.  Look for thier size and location in the manual.  Baffle doesn’t have to come out if you can take the top off.


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