# owb smoke question



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 2, 2012)

i am thinking about biting the bullet and buying a hardy h4 and i was wondering how much smoke they put out? i have neighbors somewhat close 200-300 feet and dont want them mad at me cause of the smoke. i am new to burning wood and if there are any tips i would like to hear them,i have heard the drier the wood the less smoke is this true? also was wondering if anyone who has a hardy how many cords do you burn a year thank you


----------



## benjamin (Mar 3, 2012)

I've never seen a hardy, but the specs from the website seem like a lot of other traditional OWBs, that is, it is designed and built by a welder who knows next to nothing about burning wood efficiently.  The water cooled walls mean it will smoke even with perfectly dry wood.  304 is a bad choice for a boiler and it's only 16 gauge in the firebox?!!

If the advantages of an OWB are more important to you than the smoke and burning twice as much wood, then you'll probably like it.  There are plenty of much more efficient OWBs or other boiler/furnaces out there.

What are you heating and what are your options? natural gas? land? free wood? free child labor?


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 3, 2012)

From what I have been told 304 stainless is only damaged by salt water. I had mine tested and the dealer says I have 20a parts per million which means I can use auto fill be he recommend that I flush and refill every year as far as efficiency why would a water box be a bad choice? I currently heat with electric my house 1600 square feet plus same size basement. I plan on building a detached garage in the next few years and have access to wood. I looked at central boiler and they were more expensive and didn't have a blower for combustion. I have talked to alot of folks around here and haven't heard any complaints about a hardy. What would you recommend I don't know what other options I have I tried a hotblast 1557m and it wasn't consistent heat plus all the mess inside
I am looking for consitent heat no inside mess and no chance of chimney fires and better inside air for my family thank you for opinions


----------



## flyingcow (Mar 3, 2012)

*i have neighbors somewhat close 200-300 feet and dont want them mad at me cause of the smoke.*

Chances are, they will get some, if not a lot of  smoke issues.


----------



## woodsmaster (Mar 3, 2012)

From what I've heard on here the Hardy is a rugged boiler that will give you many years of service. It will allso make
a lot of smoke and use a lot more wood than a good gasser. If your truly worried about smoking your neighbor out I'd
make a different choice.


----------



## RobC (Mar 3, 2012)

I would strongly suggest looking at other boilers. OWB all smoke theirs is no exception. Stainless is not an asset in a boiler. Had one and I'll leave it at that. If your set on a OWB look at ones that are built up north. Feel free to PM me with any questions. 
A gasser will save you $ over the long haul because of the reduced wood consumption and higher efficiency. Also you won't have pissed of all you neighbors and local Fire Dept. Google "air inversion".
Rob


----------



## shmodaddy (Mar 3, 2012)

Walkerdogman85 I bought a used h4 this year because it was what I could afford.   Right now I have $ 3000 invested in it.  My return time on my money is short around 3 yrs figuring burning around 800 gallons of Propane prior years .  I may be wrong but reading on here some have a considerable amount more tied up in a gasser.  If you can afford a gasser and the required storage and the space for storage buy a gasser and burn DRY wood.   That being said my hardy smokes.  ALOT!    Looks like a steam engine taking off when it comes off of idle especially when coming off a long idle.  Luckily  I don't have any neighbors right next door but if I did im sure they wouldn't appreciate the smoke.  Don't buy into they can burn "anything" bs that is usually associated with these type of boilers.  I was unprepared with wood this year and had to burn dry and green wood .  I am however saving to upgrade to a gasser in the hopefully near future.  

Stick with this forum there are alot if smart individuals on here that can help you with nearly any problem you could imagine.  Ask lots of questions  try the forum search if no luck ask youll get tons of help.   

Good luck


----------



## pulse (Mar 3, 2012)

A friend of mine has a hardy, it smokes a lot more than other owb designs in the neighborhood. If you have neighbors within 200' I think the hardy would not be a good choice. As far as wood usage that is dependent on design but he said he used 14 cord last year.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 3, 2012)

i guess i am not worried about my neighbors cause they burn wood also but the wind rarely blows from them to me. i have seen people around here that have had neighbors alot closer and they all have a hardy, i guess i was just wondering how bad they smoke and if the drier the wood the less smoke. i cant seem to find much info on these other than on the hardy web site. and how much does a gassifier cost i am going to have roughly 10k in this total setup!


----------



## laynes69 (Mar 3, 2012)

There's a home I have passed many times that heats with a Hardy. I've seen a steady line of smoke probably 400-500 feet coming off the unit. Luckily it's in the middle of farmland so there's little neighbors. Many times it's flooded the area with heavy clouds of smoke. What complaints do you have with an indoor wood furnace other than the mess? Temp swings, burntimes? Not all furnaces are made the same. As far as Owb's are concerned, be careful. I've seen more threads that I can count of their investments leaking after 3-5 years. I would be very pissed to invest that kind of money and have that happen. My buddy heats with a Central Boiler, he averages 32 large heaping truck loads of wood a season. He barely has time to cut and has difficulty keeping up due to his job. Our home is much bigger and we would burn 12 loads if each contained 1/2 cord. This year we won't even need that. There's some benefits of a Owb, but there's more negatives than positives.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 3, 2012)

i want one cause of the mess the bugs, wont have to worry about a chimney fire i can heat my dhw and my wife and kids wont have to smell smoke and have all the dust stirring around inside. what do you heat with? you are not to far from me i live in coshocton


----------



## pulse (Mar 3, 2012)

check out this site outdoorwoodfurnaceinfo.com


----------



## laynes69 (Mar 3, 2012)

Our furnace is a 1950 Hotblast (Psg Caddy). I don't need to worry about chimney fires because the unit burns much cleaner than the old furnace. We don't get smoke in the house. If your getting smoke then you have something isn't right. Either too many elbows, a restriction or improper flue size. As far as bugs, I only bring in enough wood for a few days. Usually a couple wheelbarrow loads will do, nothing like the old furnace. Our furnace also has a cold air portion of unit just like a central furnace. Inside there are 2 air filters that keep the air flowing through the house clean. Our furnace operates off natural draft and a wall thermostat. Right now the furnace is set for 74 degrees. It will click as it opens and closes the damper on the woodfurnace. We have no flames in the furnace now, just a coal bed and the house is warm. If you wanted hot water a loop could be placed where it would preheat the incoming water to the water heater. I considered a Owb before buying our new wood furnace, and many times I'm glad at the choice we made. Not all indoor wood furnaces are equal.


----------



## woodsmaster (Mar 3, 2012)

I put an indoor gaser in a shed to keep the mess outside. If I was to do it over, for insurance reasons and for convenience I'd attach a room to my house for an indoor boilerthat could be kept isolated from the house. Either way now that I've learned about both their is no way I'd put in a conventional OWB unless I found a very cheap one and that was all I could afford.

You may be able to do a gasser for that kind of money ! Why burn twice as much wood as you need to ? Why piss your neighbors off when you can have a better, longer lasting, more efficient boiler that don't smoke for around the same money ? That smoke you see is your unburnt fuel polluting the air.


----------



## Tennman (Mar 3, 2012)

I was going to buy a Hardy because they are so plentiful here in the hills of Tennessee. I'd say all the customers I spoke with liked the boiler with at least one neighbor (neighbor to me is .5-1.5 miles away) operating his for I think ~15 years. As far as OWBs go it has a long history and at least in my area satisfied customers. I happened on this website as part of doing boiler research and got some education and bought an indoor, imported gasser that's in a barn. When you drive by farms and homes out in the sticks were we live you can spot a Hardy, but sometimes the smoke is not excessive. I'm sure it a function of dry wood and all the usual factors of burning efficiently. Anyway if that's what you can afford, down here there's a bunch of them and I've never run across a mad customer. Read more here and buy what you can afford. I've had a few Hardy installers on my property and showed them the BioMass. They stare at my gasser installation like a calf looking at a new gate. A Gasser will be more efficient and far less smoke, but as much as I'd like to drive an Aston Martin...we all have limits. Read here a bunch and maybe you'll find a used EKO.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 3, 2012)

ok i am leaning more towards the hardy just cause of the ease of having local dealers but thanks for all the info and that other site has alot of info on it about all sorts of boilers


----------



## shmodaddy (Mar 3, 2012)

Be prepared to burn wood. All the hardy owners I know myself included go through wood.   I don't turn any wood down unless its rotten.  I heated my house on cotton wood sycamore elm silver maple oak hickory some free slab wood from a local mil (don't think ill go through that again) u name it I burnt it.


----------



## Tennman (Mar 3, 2012)

Yeah... he's right. That 15 year user I mentioned owns ~100 acres and he processes fence line blow down. Probably one reason why I see a lot of smoke. Folks always going out in the woods fetching whatever's down just to keep it fed.

Don't ignore the time required to fetch, process/split, stack wood. All that time is worth some money. But if there's lots of Hardy owners around you go talk to 3 or 4 of them.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Mar 3, 2012)

i work with about a half dozen people who have a hardy and this is why i am leaning towards it. i havent heard one complaint from them and they all say that i will like the outcome. i am going to look at a guys today and look at what he does cause he says he has little to no smoke. ill post what i find out later


----------



## woodywoodchucker (Mar 3, 2012)

I just put a blower on my CB 5036 and it works great for starting a fire or getting an old fire going that was on its way out, plus I have a bunch of seasond pine that was cut and stacked 4 years ago given to me. Ive been burning that on days that Im there. Sometimes I need the fan to burn that. I switched the fan and dont use it most of the time. I did have to drill 5 1" holes in the bottom for draft. Its true that you can burn anything in theses boilers and that the gassers need to be seasoned wood. The old smoker works so much better with good seasoned wood too.No mater how you slice it its a good idea the have seasoned wood to help with smoke and to lower wood consuption. Thats were I guess the gasser would be my choice if I were to do it again. It would be in a insulated shed with a years worth of wood beside it. Maybe a card table and a tv and beer.


----------



## benjamin (Mar 3, 2012)

walkerdogman85 said:
			
		

> From what I have been told 304 stainless is only damaged by salt water. I had mine tested and the dealer says I have 20a parts per million which means I can use auto fill be he recommend that I flush and refill every year as far as efficiency why would a water box be a bad choice? I currently heat with electric my house 1600 square feet plus same size basement. I plan on building a detached garage in the next few years and have access to wood. I looked at central boiler and they were more expensive and didn't have a blower for combustion. I have talked to alot of folks around here and haven't heard any complaints about a hardy. What would you recommend I don't know what other options I have I tried a hotblast 1557m and it wasn't consistent heat plus all the mess inside
> I am looking for consitent heat no inside mess and no chance of chimney fires and better inside air for my family thank you for opinions



Water box is bad for efficiency because the heat exchange is determined by temperature, area and resistance to heat flow. A water box has lots of area, but it cools the fire so much that much of the fuel escapes (smoke) and the fuel that does burn doesn't reach as high a temperature as it could if there was better control of the fire with a smaller refractory combustion chamber. Idling an OWB is even worse, typically they're fully loaded then the water gets up to temp and the fan shuts off letting a huge mass of hot wood smolder until the water is cooled off enough to turn the blower. I'm burning in an Aquatherm right now (long story). I have radiant concrete slabs so I can burn "flat out" without idling, but I figure I'm burning about 2-3 times as much wood as last year with an indoor-cobbled-firebrick-boiler. If I didn't have the slabs to store the heat and had to keep the fire going 24/7 I'd guess that I'd be burning at least 5 times as much wood as with the indoor boiler. 

I haven't found my ideal boiler yet, but I'll go out on a limb and recommend one of these heat pumps, especially if you have land to dig up for a ground loop or a good well and place to dump the water, or if you want AC and don't have it. Some of these will "help" heat the water, free if it's in AC mode. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FHP-Geother...341583?pt=Air_Conditioner&hash=item3a7124d1cf

If you're doing it yourself, the heatpump could be cheaper to install than the OWB and the electricity to run it will definitely be less than the value of the wood you'd burn.


----------



## Gasifier (Mar 3, 2012)

Whatever boiler you buy, I am sure you will make it work. One question is, How much work do you want to do during the life of the boiler? More or less? I would only suggest that you look at buying a gassification boiler. Outdoor or indoor. I would not buy a Hardy just because several people you work with own one and a lot of people in the area own one. Buy a boiler that is going to be more efficient. Therefor use less wood and produce less smoke or emissions. And this will mean less work for you. Less smoke for the neighbors. And save you more money in the long run. Not putting down Hardy boilers. You will only buy one boiler in twenty or more years. Hopefully. That is a long time. Efficiency should be right up there with any other reason. A combination of an indoor gassification boiler with storage in a shed or garage, or an outdoor gassification boiler with enough capacity of its own(or with storage inside), will get you better results. Then you will have a better system than anyone around you.


----------



## flyingcow (Mar 3, 2012)

woodywoodchucker said:
			
		

> I just put a blower on my CB 5036 and it works great for starting a fire or getting an old fire going that was on its way out, plus I have a bunch of seasond pine that was cut and stacked 4 years ago given to me. Ive been burning that on days that Im there. Sometimes I need the fan to burn that. I switched the fan and dont use it most of the time. I did have to drill 5 1" holes in the bottom for draft. Its true that you can burn anything in theses boilers and that the gassers need to be seasoned wood. The old smoker works so much better with good seasoned wood too.No mater how you slice it its a good idea the have seasoned wood to help with smoke and to lower wood consuption. Thats were I guess the gasser would be my choice if I were to do it again. I*t would be in a insulated shed with a years worth of wood beside it. Maybe a card table and a tv and beer.*



now you're talking!


----------



## NP ALASKA (Mar 31, 2012)

I made the mistake of buying into a OWB 7 years ago. I have researched many and they all run about the same and emmit about the same smoke and particulates. I attached a post worth looking at so oyu can see what you are getting into.

Yes the drier the wood the better, less smoke and more BTU's, but you can only do so much with the technology and believe me it isnt much in terms of technology.

I have finally saved enough to get a quallilty gasser and look ofrward to cutting the OWB into pieces.

Take a look at the post below: it speaks for itself.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/central-boiler-1400-vs-2400.83769/page-5#post-1093734


----------



## heaterman (Apr 1, 2012)

walkerdogman85 said:


> i am thinking about biting the bullet and buying a hardy h4 and i was wondering how much smoke they put out? i have neighbors somewhat close 200-300 feet and dont want them mad at me cause of the smoke. i am new to burning wood and if there are any tips i would like to hear them,i have heard the drier the wood the less smoke is this true? also was wondering if anyone who has a hardy how many cords do you burn a year thank you


 

I have installed more than a few Hardys and sold them personally from 1994-97. Most of them are still out there and still being used. I cannot think of any that were taken out of service because they failed or leaked. They are one of the longer lasting OWB's from what I have seen.

AFA smoke and efficiency goes, you can take your pick among any of the brands and they are all the same. The amount of smoke can be heavily influenced by what you are burning in it.
Even a campfire burns cleaner with seasoned wood.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Apr 2, 2012)

I have really been pleased with mine in just the few weeks I have had it the only time it really smokes is when I first load it and wet wood smokes alot bit my dry wood smokes very little if at all, the dealer told me to use used motor oil to start it and boy does that make it smoke and shoot flames out the stack but like I said I am more or less experimenting with it till I figure it out


----------



## Gary_602z (Apr 2, 2012)

And then we wonder why the OWB get a bad rap!

Gary


----------



## willworkforwood (Apr 2, 2012)

walkerdogman85 said:


> ... the dealer told me to use used motor oil to start it ....


Seems like a really slow method.  Why not just use gasoline?


----------



## heaterman (Apr 2, 2012)

Gary_602z said:


> And then we wonder why the OWB get a bad rap!
> 
> Gary


 

Exactly.

Don't even get me started about "dealers".    ........And we wonder why EPA is getting involved?


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Apr 2, 2012)

I am going to just start it from now on like my indoor wood burner but I don't care if they get a bad rap I have already seen some of the effects of how you start it and what you burn in it


----------



## oldsmokey (Apr 2, 2012)

walkerdogman85 said:


> I am going to just start it from now on like my indoor wood burner but I don't care if they get a bad rap I have already seen some of the effects of how you start it and what you burn in it


i sell outdoor wood boilers in Vermont as of 2007 epa phase 1 kicked in and in 2010 phase 2 they are very strict and we are now limited on brands available in Vermont a lot of other staes are following so be sure to check your local codes.they are very expensive our Portage and main units retail for 13,500.00 plus delivery if more than 25 miles from our store.thes new gasifiers are confusing one of the best ways to scope out a new wood boiler is to find out ita average 8-hour btu output.somear a lot less than you would expect.a good website for info is here http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/VTregl.html for vermont and here for elsewhere and btu output http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html
these newer units are way more efficient and use 30 to 50 percent less wood if currently using and older non epa boiler.
i have solde many boilers over the last 5 years at first mainly Pro-Fab 200 but no more they dont stand behind their product at all i f a customer doesnt follow the manual to the tee as far as water treatment and i have hadd 4 leak in the last year,Portages and Main units very nice and this year the opt-350 will be able to be sold in Vt will post back when/if we have any problems with these but they seem very well built.


----------



## charly (Apr 2, 2012)

A friend down the road has a Hardy on his farm. He said it's nearing 20 years old, a leak was welded up a few years earlier. He said it does smoke but given his location it's not a problem. Just some honest feed back.


----------



## stee6043 (Apr 2, 2012)

willworkforwood said:


> Seems like a really slow method. Why not just use gasoline?


 
I don't care who you are....that was funny (stolen from the voice of Mater)....


----------



## woodsmaster (Apr 2, 2012)

oldsmokey said:


> i sell outdoor wood boilers in Vermont as of 2007 epa phase 1 kicked in and in 2010 phase 2 they are very strict and we are now limited on brands available in Vermont a lot of other staes are following so be sure to check your local codes.they are very expensive our Portage and main units retail for 13,500.00 plus delivery if more than 25 miles from our store.thes new gasifiers are confusing one of the best ways to scope out a new wood boiler is to find out ita average 8-hour btu output.somear a lot less than you would expect.a good website for info is here http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/VTregl.html for vermont and here for elsewhere and btu output http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html
> these newer units are way more efficient and use 30 to 50 percent less wood if currently using and older non epa boiler.
> i have solde many boilers over the last 5 years at first mainly Pro-Fab 200 but no more they dont stand behind their product at all i f a customer doesnt follow the manual to the tee as far as water treatment and i have hadd 4 leak in the last year,Portages and Main units very nice and this year the opt-350 will be able to be sold in Vt will post back when/if we have any problems with these but they seem very well built.


 
Why are the outdoor gassers so much? Youcould put an indoor for quite a bit less


----------



## ISeeDeadBTUs (Apr 2, 2012)

I had some insightful comments to make. . . until I realized that you went ahead and bought the Hardy. Most everything I was GOING to say is now pointless.

Please tell me why, though, would you plunk down good coin on an appliance that you know nearly nothing about, at a time of the year when you won't need it much, based on a handful of friends that have only run one design???

Though the suggestion to start it with gasoline was funny as sheetz, it might be considered a foolHardy statement. Except in this case, you appear to have had your mind made up and no amount of facts were going to confuse you. So hopefully you will likewise ignore that bit of advice.

Oh, did the dealer tell you about the tire trick?!?


----------



## oldsmokey (Apr 2, 2012)

the manufacturers tell us it cost them more to make and all the epa testing is very expensive.i should also point out i have sold a few indoor units such as Tarm and when all said and done they arent any less as they need a water storage system on many of their models.some nice indoor units are thr Pro-FAB Elite and the Portage and Main indoor IDM 100 and they also do not need water storage.another thing is even in Vermont there are no regulations on indoor units so you can still buy dirty burners such as New Yorker and WoodChuck and the Benjamin boilers they are much less if you dont care about the air quality in your area.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Apr 2, 2012)

I guess I like the fact that it is simple. I don't see why you would want a so called gasser? I didn't want to spend the extra money for one. There are alot of hardy owb around here and I would think that there must be a reason for that. Have you had a hardy? I thought I would ask for some opinions on here but I believe that some of the opinions are all one sided but mabye I read them wrong I didn't want to start any arguments so sorry if I offended anyone.


----------



## ISeeDeadBTUs (Apr 2, 2012)

LOL, it's impossible to offend me in the context of wood burning. I, on the other hand, have offended everyone here at least once. Some, several times. Theres this one chick . . . n/m

Likewise around me there are many CB, Hardy, AquaTherm, Heatmor and Woodmasters. I even ordered a CB once, but fortunatly for me, they never actually ordered it.

Simple is probably great in the begining. But once you experience some of the inefficiency, you'll probably want to make modifications. Those modifications are already done on some of the quality secondary combusion aka 'gassifiers' available today.

I guess my point was that you sold yourself short getting all your advice from users of one design. So many designs are representd here, you would be amazed at what you would have learned if you'd not had your 'its Hardy or ist the highway' blinders on.

Stick around though. We like to hear how other people do it here.


----------



## oldsmokey (Apr 3, 2012)

the only point i make is that here in Vermont we dont have a choice as the clean air devision has made it law that we only sell gasifiers.i do quote others in New York but they have the same thing hapening there so not much longer and all the northeast will be required and it will take years fot the lawmakers to fill all the loopholes as i have a neighbor with an ol new yorker in a shed he built and as of not there are no laws agains and it smokes like crazy.i have also found out that we can still sell the U.S.STOVE hot air outdoor furnace as it is not a boiler so not regulated.it is a crazy situation here.


----------



## walkerdogman85 (Apr 3, 2012)

I appreciate all the info I guess I have never seen or even heard of the gasser around I don't know of amy I know a couple central boilers and a few wood doctors and one Taylor but he don't use it. Many if we for all clean in my county ill have to switch but I more or less have to go with what I got now lol. I am sure that those other stoves are so called more efficient but I guess not to worried about it now.  I just didn't want to pay for my electric furnace run all the time and my wife and I really enjoy the endless hot water.


----------



## woodsmaster (Apr 3, 2012)

oldsmokey said:


> the manufacturers tell us it cost them more to make and all the epa testing is very expensive.i should also point out i have sold a few indoor units such as Tarm and when all said and done they arent any less as they need a water storage system on many of their models.some nice indoor units are thr Pro-FAB Elite and the Portage and Main indoor IDM 100 and they also do not need water storage.another thing is even in Vermont there are no regulations on indoor units so you can still buy dirty burners such as New Yorker and WoodChuck and the Benjamin boilers they are much less if you dont care about the air quality in your area.


 
I guess your paying for the convience of having it all plumbed up and in a nice little package. Anyone who has the ability and desire to do a little plumbing can put an an indoor gasser a bit cheaper than $13,500. A lot of them can be run without storage but I would't recomend it. ( look at page 4 of fine tuning biomass for a pic. of one run with and without storage. You can't tell me that the outdoor type isn't the same. Just becouse they can run without storage don't mean it's the best way. I found some used tanks and did some plumbing and have a better more convienient system IMHO for less money. That includes my used propane tanks I used for storage. I did weld on them, but if you had to pay someone to weld I don't think that would add more than a couple of hundred to the bill.


----------



## oldsmokey (Apr 3, 2012)

woodsmaster said:


> I guess your paying for the convience of having it all plumbed up and in a nice little package. Anyone who has the ability and desire to do a little plumbing can put an an indoor gasser a bit cheaper than $13,500. A lot of them can be run without storage but I would't recomend it. ( look at page 4 of fine tuning biomass for a pic. of one run with and without storage. You can't tell me that the outdoor type isn't the same. Just becouse they can run without storage don't mean it's the best way. I found some used tanks and did some plumbing and have a better more convienient system IMHO for less money. That includes my used propane tanks I used for storage. I did weld on them, but if you had to pay someone to weld I don't think that would add more than a couple of hundred to the bill.


yes the indoor units i sell are approx 8000.00 and 9500.00 and do not require storage as they cycle like the outdoor units i have sold both and customers have been very happy.the main dif between these and water storage units as the unit with storage tend to be fired full tilt like to Tarms to heat the water and they feel the fast hot fire is most efficient.


----------



## woodsmaster (Apr 3, 2012)

I do like the portage and main and believe there should be a good market for it from the folks who want to plug and play. I like that the tubes are easy to clean.


----------



## henfruit (Apr 3, 2012)

Old smoke those 2 indoor units you sell are open systems like outdoor units?


----------



## oldsmokey (Apr 3, 2012)

yes both are open systems i do still have some of the Greenwood units in stock at a good price and they can be setup either way both 100,'s and 200's


----------

