# The cost savings of wood burning



## Dobish (Dec 28, 2016)

We put the stove in in November 2015, so we really noticed the difference between the first part of the months. Our house is much warmer, and this year we are actually keeping it warm all day (as opposed to last year when we would only turn the heat on when we were home).


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## MAD777 (Dec 28, 2016)

Nice impressive chart! 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2016)

What happened in January 2016? Did you leave on vacation?


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## Dobish (Dec 28, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> What happened in January 2016? Did you leave on vacation?



we turned down the thermostat by a degree, and put in insulating blinds, but most importantly, got our wood split and stacked, and easily accessible!


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## Dobish (Dec 28, 2016)

this year we used 46 therms in decmeber vs 80 in 2015...


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## Highbeam (Dec 28, 2016)

Dobish said:


> we turned down the thermostat by a degree, and put in insulating blinds, but most importantly, got our wood split and stacked, and easily accessible!



It looks like a surge in gas usage for January 2016 only. Maybe I'm reading their chart wrong.


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## Dobish (Dec 28, 2016)

Highbeam said:


> It looks like a surge in gas usage for January 2016 only. Maybe I'm reading their chart wrong.


that's 2015...


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## blades (Dec 28, 2016)

26 therms 11-21/12-21/ 2016  dang add on charges cost me more than the NG I use.


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## St. Coemgen (Dec 30, 2016)

Hm....

I see you used less Natural Gas, but no actual data on all combined (direct and indirect) costs (i.e. cutting and stacking wood is an indirect cost) for each source of heating. I am sure you have a heavier wallet now, but that savings is personal and subjective. To help others compare, a full accounting (including amortizations of all hardware for each heating source and a listing of actual direct costs and estimated indirect costs) really would be ideal.

For example, my personal indirect costs for splitting and stacking wood (I get a high hourly rate for consulting) is higher than what it actually costs me to hire someone to do it, which then makes that hiring a direct cost. But if I did cut and or stack it myself, that indirect costs is still a debit, and one that should still be estimated and added to the liability column of wood heating.


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## Dobish (Dec 30, 2016)

St. Coemgen said:


> Hm....
> 
> I see you used less Natural Gas, but no actual data on all combined (direct and indirect) costs (i.e. cutting and stacking wood is an indirect cost) for each source of heating. I am sure you have a heavier wallet now, but that savings is personal and subjective. To help others compare, a full accounting (including amortizations of all hardware for each heating source and a listing of actual direct costs and estimated indirect costs) really would be ideal.
> 
> For example, my personal indirect costs for splitting and stacking wood (I get a high hourly rate for consulting) is higher than what it actually costs me to hire someone to do it, which then makes that hiring a direct cost. But if I did cut and or stack it myself, that indirect costs is still a debit, and one that should still be estimated and added to the liability column of wood heating.



I try not to get too deep into it, since a lot of those costs are sunk costs anyway. I have needed to clean up my property of a bunch of boxelders and elms, and a lot of other brush, so either way I had to take them down and get rid of them. I have not paid anything for my wood itself, but I have paid for the splitter, chainsaw blades, a few chainsaw repairs, tree work, etc. If I don't include the cost of the stove and the chainsaw (both of which of course are on a set depreciation schedule) but I do include the tree work, and the splitter (even though that is more for fun, because it is also on a set depreciation schedule), i have paid $88/cord in cash for everything I either have used or have stacked on my property. This does not include my time, but as I mentioned before, something had to be done about these anyway.


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## Dobish (Dec 30, 2016)

if i were to gather up all of the costs, expenses, etc, I would also have to extrapolate the projected price increases of natural gas, build in the projected costs of keeping the house at a higher temp, and also adding in the additional electricity needed to run the furnace, etc with backing out the additional factors that cause an increase in the electricity usage. [This would be very difficult to do as we went from having nobody in the house during the day to having 3 children and a nanny there all day, average temp jumped from 61º to 66º]

by looking at the pre-stove data and the post stove data, averaging 1/3 cord per month (lets say $35 of wood), my average cost savings just from NG alone is still roughly $30/month.


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## Marshy (Dec 30, 2016)

St. Coemgen said:


> Hm....
> 
> I see you used less Natural Gas, but no actual data on all combined (direct and indirect) costs (i.e. cutting and stacking wood is an indirect cost) for each source of heating. I am sure you have a heavier wallet now, but that savings is personal and subjective. To help others compare, a full accounting (including amortizations of all hardware for each heating source and a listing of actual direct costs and estimated indirect costs) really would be ideal.
> 
> For example, my personal indirect costs for splitting and stacking wood (I get a high hourly rate for consulting) is higher than what it actually costs me to hire someone to do it, which then makes that hiring a direct cost. But if I did cut and or stack it myself, that indirect costs is still a debit, and one that should still be estimated and added to the liability column of wood heating.



You bring up a good point however, its going to be different for each person. Some people like myself work for free (splitting and stacking) because its an enjoyable past time. If you make a decent living in your normal job and its a factor or two more than what someone would reasonably charge to split and stack firewood then to me its not reasonable use your hourly pay rate to determine the cost of your time to perform such activities since its not a fair market rate.

Also something to consider, if you are skilled enough with your chainsaws you have the ability to create income and pay for the equipment so that will not have to be factored in the cost. Occasionally I get an opportunity to make money with my saws and it only takes two weekends to pay for a new saw.

Variable are endless but I agree that you cannot get a true sense of savings until you put a value to all the variables.

Here's a good example.
I buy log length cord wood at $100/cord. I burn 6 cord per year. If I bought split seasoned wood it would cost me about $200/cord. That savings is $100/cord vice buying it already processed. I hand split my wood so equipment cost is minimal, $50 for a Fiskars X27 but over 50 years, negligible. I don't know how fast I work so I would have to assume, lets say it take 2 hours to cut and split a cord of wood. If I value my time it at the rate I get paid at work then its way cheaper to buy it split like you. But since that wouldn't require the use of a chainsaw its not an option. But for arguments sake, I would say its probably accurate to say someone working for a company processing firewood might get paid $20-$25/hr. If I use $25/hr I'm still 75% the cost of buying it split plus I get to run a chainsaw (WIN). If the saw is paid for then there is no cost for that. Maintenance is negligible. Cost of gas and oil might be $10 per cord. None of that means much unless you are comparing it to your other heat source. For someone like me its #2 diesel, not nat gas. Savings are large enough where I don't need a fancy analysis to tell me Im saving a $1-$300 per month. Besides, even if it was costing me money (which could be argued when you look at the cost of the new appliances to burn the stuff) I would still argue that people pay to do things they like (cars, snowmobiles, skydiving) and its likely less expensive than any of those other things. Don't forget to subtract the cost of a gym membership from your cost, wont need one of those ever again.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 30, 2016)

St. Coemgen said:


> Hm....
> 
> I see you used less Natural Gas, but no actual data on all combined (direct and indirect) costs (i.e. cutting and stacking wood is an indirect cost) for each source of heating. I am sure you have a heavier wallet now, but that savings is personal and subjective. To help others compare, a full accounting (including amortizations of all hardware for each heating source and a listing of actual direct costs and estimated indirect costs) really would be ideal.
> 
> For example, my personal indirect costs for splitting and stacking wood (I get a high hourly rate for consulting) is higher than what it actually costs me to hire someone to do it, which then makes that hiring a direct cost. But if I did cut and or stack it myself, that indirect costs is still a debit, and one that should still be estimated and added to the liability column of wood heating.



I figure if I charge about 5 cents an hour for my labor, and don't consider my costs for all of my equipment and fuel, I might be saving a tidy sum on my heating over the course of a season.

 If I charged the rate I get paid per hour for my day job, I'm in the hole after about three days of woodlot work (probably a lot less).  

That said, if I liked my day job even a fraction as much as I like this hobby, I'd just turn up the thermostat and let the natural gas furnace heat the place. After I worked the additional hours at the office that would result in more promotions, larger bonuses, and all of the other trappings of the rat race, then I'd go to the gym, and spend hours there, then come home and pay my gym membership fees, gas bill, and watch TV until bedtime. 

I think that anyone who thinks that they are saving money doing this woodburning thing, if they account for the value of their time in the free market, is kidding themselves. I honestly couldn't be doing it any other way, and the work that I do feeding the stove is actually running the odometer backwards.


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## STIHLY DAN (Dec 30, 2016)

Pay per hour would only be if you took time off work to get wood. if time is not making you money, then time splitting or whatever is of no cost other than time, which IS limited.


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## venator260 (Jan 2, 2017)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Pay per hour would only be if you took time off work to get wood. if time is not making you money, then time splitting or whatever is of no cost other than time, which IS limited.



And didn't get paid for it. 

I'm salaried. It would be impossible for me to get paid more for my additional time. Getting a second job with an education degree in the area I'm in probably isn't worth my gas to get there. No one's going to pay for tutoring, so I'm fresh out of side gigs. 

Additionally, I rather enjoy the process of collecting all of that firewood.


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## jebatty (Jan 3, 2017)

If I got paid for the time I spend eating, my grocery bill would turn into a profit center for the household. IMO life rarely should be about money; much better to be about what gives quality to the life we have.


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## Highbeam (Jan 3, 2017)

jebatty said:


> If I got paid for the time I spend eating, my grocery bill would turn into a profit center for the household.



Excellent!

The 11 YO daughter and I loaded wood from the stacks to the house yesterday. 1/2 cord. That time with her was golden.


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## Dobish (Jan 3, 2017)

i took advantage of nap time yesterday and got roughly 3/4 cord bucked up.....

that was time that I wasn't getting paid for, but couldn't do anything else anyway. I wasn't going to sit around and watch tv, it was nice enough outside that we didn't need the fire going, so it was a positive gain the in the firewood battle.

one of my neighbors did walk by and told me that I was the "firewood king", to which I responded, "I think there is another guy who has more than me , but I'm trying to catch up" and we talked about firewood for a while.

I don't think I will try and figure out the cost of conversation though


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## mol1jb (Jan 11, 2017)

Ive been keeping a close eye on my gas bill since this is the first year of my stove install. I usually use 15-18 therms of gas on a non heating month (gas hot water and dryer) and around 4-5x that on a heating month. Dec and Jan showed both were less than 40 therm per month. Gotta love that result.


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## TradEddie (Jan 12, 2017)

I too cam earn vastly more money in an hour at work than I could ever save by splitting and stacking wood, but if you're going to consider costs and benefits to this level of detail, you also need to factor in the physical and mental heath benefits of the exercise. Pounding pavement or wearing out the dreadmill doesn't save you one penny.

TE


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## cygnus (Jan 12, 2017)

My first year burning was quite difficult.  It's gotten better over the past few years and has reasonably dropped gas usage by 75% for the heating season.  Those savings add up, and more than pay for the saws, tools accessories, etc.  That definitely doesn't pay for my time...but splitting it all by hand does offset the cost of a gym membership.


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## peakbagger (Jan 13, 2017)

Hard to plot my oil usage as I haven't bought any for three years. I hand split and my wood is free so my costs are chains, gas & oil for the saw and gas for the truck. I also run a minisplit for shoulder season heat but power is "free" from my solar. Sure I have sunk costs, but I did all my installations myself to cut labor costs

I consider the labor cutting wood and installing equipment a hobby. I have a fairly desk job so its good exercise. I also have a tight house so at most I burn 4 cords year, this cuts down on the amount of work dealing with wood. To me it a matter of where I spend my time, I am not into sports so no need to sit around for four or five hours watching games. I can cut drop and split a cord in about the same time


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## eastcoastcanada (Jan 13, 2017)

Highbeam said:


> Excellent!
> 
> The 11 YO daughter and I loaded wood from the stacks to the house yesterday. 1/2 cord. That time with her was golden.


Very true! I have a teenage son, a 9 year old son and 8 year old daughter helping me stack it and helped me cut a trailer load each. The help is so wonderful, many hands make light work, even little hands. My 9 year old son really surprised me, he works like a mule! I had to tell him to slow down, that we were just having fun with it and could take a break whenever we wanted. I was so proud! Every minute is precious.


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## eastcoastcanada (Jan 13, 2017)

Dobish said:


> View attachment 191423
> 
> We put the stove in in November 2015, so we really noticed the difference between the first part of the months. Our house is much warmer, and this year we are actually keeping it warm all day (as opposed to last year when we would only turn the heat on when we were home).


That's impressive! I'm all electric heat here in Newfoundland and my home is 10 years old but I'm being told I will save $200 per month from mid December through mid April. That's significant so I'm looking forward to the saving. Heck, even $500 saved would be nice.


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## maple1 (Jan 14, 2017)

eastcoastcanada said:


> That's impressive! I'm all electric heat here in Newfoundland and my home is 10 years old but I'm being told I will save $200 per month from mid December through mid April. That's significant so I'm looking forward to the saving. Heck, even $500 saved would be nice.



What are your monthly electric bills? They must be up there, with electric heat?

I think it would run me about $25-30/day for just heat if I were to run my electric boiler full time.


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## eastcoastcanada (Jan 14, 2017)

maple1 said:


> What are your monthly electric bills? They must be up there, with electric heat?
> 
> I think it would run me about $25-30/day for just heat if I were to run my electric boiler full time.


9.710 cents per Kwh. My bill was $362 for November and $407 for December and it just started getting cold here.  That's a family of five, washer and dryer never stop, 18000 btu mini-split heat pump handling main floor kitchen & living area, led bulbs everywhere and we do what we can to save energy except freeze our butts off. I'm hoping the wood stove will cut the bill by $150 to $200 per month.


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## maple1 (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm thinking you should be able to do better than that, maybe. When we had 5 here (2 are now out to college), we were at around $220-230/mo. while heating DHW electrically but not space heating. Our rates are $10/mo base + $0.15/kwh. There's good info in the other threads re. electricity consumption.


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## semipro (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm reminded often of the "security" aspect of burning wood. 
We've been burning pellets lately as primary heat using the Jotul on nights and weekends.  We were hit yet again by a power outage, this time only 8 hours.  It was quite cold outside. 
Though the pellets stove remained dark, we cranked up the Jotul and keep is stoked.  It was very comforting to watch the stove crank away knowing that as long as we had a pile of wood accessible outside we'd be warm and pipes would remain unfrozen.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 17, 2017)

semipro said:


> I'm reminded often of the "security" aspect of burning wood.
> We've been burning pellets lately as primary heat using the Jotul on nights and weekends.  We were hit yet again by a power outage, this time only 8 hours.  It was quite cold outside.
> Though the pellets stove remained dark, we cranked up the Jotul and keep is stoked.  It was very comforting to watch the stove crank away knowing that as long as we had a pile of wood accessible outside we'd be warm and pipes would remain unfrozen.



Good point about the independence/security achieved through wood burning.

I would not burn just for the money savings but, if I were heating primarily with electric resistance heat, I couldn't relax knowing how much it was costing to really warm the cabin (there is no natural gas and I have no desire to install an oil or propane tank). Plus, I do like the woodcutting activity.

As far as expensing the equipment, I don't get that. I have a Stihl 026 with 16" and 18" bars from 1997 and some splitting mauls, wedges, peavy, etc, that I've had forever. The gas/oil are the primary expenses, the new saw was only $325. A chain easily lasts me 20-30 cords, both bars are still going strong, and the saw has been 100% reliable for 20 years other than needing a new fuel pick-up a couple of years ago (1/2 hour repair once I researched it). And I use it regularly for tasks other than cutting firewood. I did replace the sparkplug once, but only because I had never done so. It didn't run any differently with the new plug so I saved the old one as a spare.  I would need a chainsaw whether I burned wood or not so I don't count the initial purchase price. I mean trees grow and trees fall, without a saw you're helpless.

My Stihl 026 starts on the third or fourth pull every time (first pull when it's warm) and has more power/rpms than when it was new. I brush/vac the airfilter every 4-5 cords and tension/sharpen the chain lightly each serious cutting session but the main maintenance task is the constant filling with gas/oil and bar oil. Even then, I bet my truck uses more fuel for firewood than the saw. I run the expensive Stihl synthetic pre-mix with standard 89 octane pump gas (10% alcohol). I leave it in there 24/7 unless I just happen to run out when I'm done cutting in which case I'll store it empty. Otherwise I fill it up when I'm done cutting. Good equipment properly used and cared for doesn't cost much in the big picture, the oil/gas can add up though.


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## Dobish (Jan 18, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Good point about the independence/security achieved through wood burning.
> 
> I would not burn just for the money savings but, if I were heating primarily with electric resistance heat, I couldn't relax knowing how much it was costing to really warm the cabin (there is no natural gas and I have no desire to install an oil or propane tank). Plus, I do like the woodcutting activity.
> 
> ...



i really only have a depreciation schedule since my accountant told me to   I am able to write off some of the costs associated with wood/related equipment since it is necessary to maintain the property and reduce damage to the rental property.....


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## venator260 (Jan 20, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> Good equipment properly used and cared for doesn't cost much in the big picture, the oil/gas can add up though.



I've thought about this. I'd like to break out the fuel costs for getting a cord of wood from standing trees to my basement. I can't think that it's a huge amount. It wouldn't take more than a tank of diesel through the tractor to drag it in, a tank in the saw to cut it up, a tank of gas in the splitter, and very little in the ATV for the final trip. So, what, 50-60 bucks at the absolute most to get a cord of wood properly located and ready to burn? That is, again, probably a vast overestimation in the fuel used in the spiltter and tractor

It certainly beats heating my current house totally with the electric baseboard. That would run into the hundreds of dollars per month.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 20, 2017)

I have no idea how much gas a splitter uses since I've always hand split. But that brings up another point. I know I eat a bigger steak after I've been splitting/stacking wood, and probably drink an extra beer. Am I supposed to add in the extra cost of the steak and beer? 

 I do know I have never cut and limbed a cord of wood with only one tank using any saw, especially if the trees started as standing timber. But my saw only holds one pint of fuel so I get about 9-12 fill-ups from a gallon depending upon how empty I let it get. My very rough estimate on saw fuel per every cut and limbed cord of wood would be closer to 1/2 gallon. But's it's more on larger diameter trees and hardwoods vs. small softwood.

But my truck only get 19 mpg and I probably burn 3-4 gallons/cord in that. I can't imagine dragging a few trees across even a relatively large property taps out the fuel tank in your diesel tractor though. How much does it hold?


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## venator260 (Jan 20, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> I have no idea how much gas a splitter uses since I've always hand split. But that brings up another point. I know I eat a bigger steak after I've been splitting/stacking wood, and probably drink an extra beer. Am I supposed to add in the extra cost of the steak and beer?
> 
> I do know I have never cut and limbed a cord of wood with only one tank using any saw, especially if the trees started as standing timber. But my saw only holds one pint of fuel so I get about 9-12 fill-ups from a gallon depending upon how empty I let it get. My very rough estimate on saw fuel per every cut and limbed cord of wood would be closer to 1/2 gallon. But's it's more on larger diameter trees and hardwoods vs. small softwood.
> 
> But my truck only get 19 mpg and I probably burn 3-4 gallons/cord in that. I can't imagine dragging a few trees across even a relatively large property taps out the fuel tank in your diesel tractor though. How much does it hold?





Hm... Seems I didn't think about cutting and limbing... we'll say two tanks there. Or perhaps more. I'm beginning to see I ought to keep track of stuff... I may be wildly off on the saw gas estimate. Husky's website says my saw holds 1.4 pints. It seem to be more efficient than older saws in its class (Husky 562XP). I'm thinking too of the EAB killed ash that I've been dealing with for awhile. Not too much limbing with those trees. Certainly nothing like a big oak with a large crown, I'd burn through quite a bit more getting one of those ready to drag out.

The tractor holds 11 gallons. Seems to be pretty good on fuel. I can drag all day on a Saturday and not fill up. Come to think of it, I drug all day on less than a tank of fuel, and was able to drag out a good bit of wood; 3-4 10x10 ranks of 18 inch long wood. That was with a 3 point skidding attachment with a winch, so I was a bit more efficient. I could pull out 4-5 smaller ash trees (didn't make the cut for saleable timber). The drag was downhill or flat; that helped. The property, all told, is about 85 acres, roughly in a square.

The splitter I have access to is probably a bit less efficient than most. My dad built it from an old '60's era 2 cylinder Wisconsin engine and a cylinder off of a garbage truck.

As I said, I'd like to keep track of this, as these were just armchair estimates. I'm willing to admit to being off on this by a good bit. Still, I'd need to be wrong by several times those numbers for me to rethink getting as much of my heat as I can from wood. I think my next cheapest option would be to get my coal stove back into operation. A cord of wood would need to cost me about $250.00 to make that worth it (anthracite, locally, runs about $275 a ton if you haul). Now, that math works a bit different when is rather cold out, as coal has advantages there (even heat, longer burns).

And, as others have said in this thread, there are intangible benefits that I like as well. I like the process of cutting wood. I like having some form of energy independence. I like that wood heat is environmentally friendlier than other forms of heat. And I like fiddling with the stove.


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## WoodyIsGoody (Jan 20, 2017)

venator260 said:


> Come to think of it, I drug all day on less than a tank of fuel, and was able to drag out a good bit of wood; 3-4 10x10 ranks of 18 inch long wood. That was with a 3 point skidding attachment with a winch, so I was a bit more efficient.



We don't have "ranks" out West so I have no idea how much that is. "10x10 ranks"? You might as well be speaking Russian!


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## venator260 (Jan 20, 2017)

WoodyIsGoody said:


> We don't have "ranks" out West so I have no idea how much that is. "10x10 ranks"? You might as well be speaking Russian!




Ha. I'm using ranks as a synonym for stacks.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Jan 20, 2017)

Coal is 275$ a ton Holy balls. 35/ you pick up at mine.


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## venator260 (Jan 21, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Coal is 275$ a ton Holy balls. 35/ you pick up at mine.




I'm assuming that's $350. If 350, that makes sense, I'm pretty close to the pa anthracite region, so lower price. Peeling around the coal forum, folks closer to mines are able to do better, especially if they drive to the breaker.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Jan 21, 2017)

No. 35$ 70 delivered


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## venator260 (Jan 21, 2017)

Hard or soft? Either way, that's pretty cheap.


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## Lloyd the redneck (Jan 21, 2017)

Western nd lignite


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## venator260 (Jan 22, 2017)

Lloyd the redneck said:


> Western nd lignite




There's the difference. 

The price I gave was for anthracite. Bituminous would be cheaper, and lignite cheaper yet. I've read up on burning bit coal at NEPA Crossroads because I can get both. Anthracite seems easier. Not sure how lignite would be.


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## begreen (Jan 22, 2017)

My understanding is that lignite is the dirtiest of the three. Burning it emits more C02, SO2, and NOx and the mercury content of lignite is greater. This doesn't include the energy or environmental costs of mining and transporting lignite.


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## venator260 (Jan 22, 2017)

begreen said:


> My understanding is that lignite is the dirtiest of the three. Burning it emits more C02, SO2, and NOx and the mercury content of lignite is greater. This doesn't include the energy or environmental costs of mining and transporting lignite.



 It's the least energy dense form of coal. I'm not sure about CO2 though. Anthracite has the highest carbon content of any coal. And the more carbon available, the more CO2 produced, I would think. The high carbon content is what give anthracite all of the advantage for home heating: no visible emissions, long and clean burn (no chimney deposits) less need to poke at it (I've read bituminous has a tendency to fuse together, necessitating poking the coal load). It burns up through the load, new fuel on top, ash out the bottom. 

If I wasn't convinced about the truth of the problems with CO2 and didnt live on 85 wooded acres, I probably would have purchased a coal stove instead of a wood stove. Burning anthracite had several perks.


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## Dobish (Jan 26, 2017)

Just got this months bill. I saved $10 in gas over last year, and our electric usage went down by 60 kWh over last year. December and January are the biggest usage months by far, so I feel like i'm making progress!


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## DeniseLyons (Jan 26, 2017)

Great advice!


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## begreen (Feb 1, 2017)

venator260 said:


> It's the least energy dense form of coal. I'm not sure about CO2 though. Anthracite has the highest carbon content of any coal. And the more carbon available, the more CO2 produced, I would think. The high carbon content is what give anthracite all of the advantage for home heating: no visible emissions, long and clean burn (no chimney deposits) less need to poke at it (I've read bituminous has a tendency to fuse together, necessitating poking the coal load). It burns up through the load, new fuel on top, ash out the bottom.
> 
> If I wasn't convinced about the truth of the problems with CO2 and didnt live on 85 wooded acres, I probably would have purchased a coal stove instead of a wood stove. Burning anthracite had several perks.


Lignite's lower heating value means more fuel must be handled to produce a given amount of power
CO2 output seems to be a bit higher than hard coal.


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## venator260 (Feb 1, 2017)

begreen said:


> Lignite's lower heating value means more fuel must be handled to produce a given amount of power
> CO2 output seems to be a bit higher than hard coal.
> View attachment 193863



Makes sense. I was thinking in about per pound of fuel burned. It makes more sense though to think about per unit of energy produced, which is what you were referencing.


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## georgepds (Feb 1, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> .....
> 
> I think that anyone who thinks that they are saving money doing this woodburning thing, if they account for the value of their time in the free market, is kidding themselves. I honestly couldn't be doing it any other way, and the work that I do feeding the stove is actually running the odometer backwards.




Not so sure about that. I heat with wood (have been since 1984). Up till a few years ago it was wood, with propane for backup when I'm not there. Now it's wood with heat pump backup ( powered by solar PV).Since I installed a Progress Hybrid my wood use dropped from 4 chords/year down to 2. Those 2 chords cost me ~$600.

On my island (New England) the  primary source of heat is propane. It is not unusual for someone to pay $2k to $4k over the winter. If you use a lot the price drops, but if you sip it like I do it's $4/gallon. I can work out the $/therm, but I doubt that would convince anyone.. let's just say I'm in for $600/winter and not $3k

If you buy the wood, like I do, you still need to stack  it in the spring, bring it in once a week, and of course, feed the stove 2 or 3 times a day.  I really don't regard feeding the stove as a chore. I'm used to the rhythms of wood heating. My reality test is this: what if I was spending $3k a year for wood, and $600 for propane.. would I switch to propane... YES.

Could be kidding myself, but I'm nice and toasty while my neighbors are fretting over the propane bill


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Feb 1, 2017)

georgepds said:


> Not so sure about that. I heat with wood (have been since 1984). Up till a few years ago it was wood, with propane for backup when I'm not there. Now it's wood with heat pump backup ( powered by solar PV).Since I installed a Progress Hybrid my wood use dropped from 4 chords/year down to 2. Those 2 chords cost me ~$600.
> 
> On my island (New England) the  primary source of heat is propane. It is not unusual for someone to pay $2k to $4k over the winter. If you use a lot the price drops, but if you sip it like I do it's $4/gallon. I can work out the $/therm, but I doubt that would convince anyone.. let's just say I'm in for $600/winter and not $3k
> 
> ...


Yes, you are right, blanket statements like I made are rarely accurate in all instances. I scrounge almost every part of my system, including my chainsaws (thank you Marriott points and friend who ended up afraid of the little 14" Echo), trailer, wood, even my stove and liner were on closeout.  But, other stuff adds up, like chains, fuel, oil, etc., and I spend enormous amounts of time handling the wood, from log to ash.  And you are on island rates, which may make things like propane more expensive. But to your point, I was wrong to make a blanket statement that I should have known would not be correct for everyone.


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