# Creating a technician pay structure



## smwilliamson (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm at a loss. Salary doesnt work in the winter cause hours are too long and the work is relentlessly never-ending. Hourly pay doesn't work cause the overtime vs. quality production and call backs really drives up labor.

So I'm thinking outside the box. Haven't commited to it yet but I have designs on piece work and a very low (possibly absolutely minimum wage) hourly base rate. The trick is to create an incentive to work more and work smarter. Part of this overall plan will also create rewards for NFI...say $2000 bonus and an increase in base pay. How about $1 per post here on the forum. Lets say an employee of mine spend a couple hours a week here askin and answerin...they will learn a lot! What do you folks think?


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## Gary Gileau (Jan 5, 2013)

I honestly believe in incentives. We used to pay the crushing plant people a bonus after they met a minimum tonage. It turned them into "partners", the more they produced the more they made! My God! I had to hold them back. You need to think it through. There is a fine ballance between quantity and quality. All in all if you can find a formula that works it benefits everyone. It creates competition and pride.

Like I said think it through and you will find something that works. If you are able to get them to make you more money, why not share it with them!


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## nate379 (Jan 5, 2013)

Why not do hourly and limit to 12hr day max?

If you can't cover the work orders with that, sounds like you need another tech or two in the winter.


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## smoke show (Jan 6, 2013)

piece work sucks. just sayin. find honest hard working mature people that do what their asked to when their asked to and the problem is solved.

speaking from expierence.

out.


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## CladMaster (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I'm at a loss. Salary doesnt work in the winter cause hours are too long and the work is relentlessly never-ending. Hourly pay doesn't work cause the overtime vs. quality production and call backs really drives up labor.


 
Employ more tech's to ease the work load.



smwilliamson said:


> So I'm thinking outside the box. Haven't commited to it yet but I have designs on piece work and a very low (possibly absolutely minimum wage) hourly base rate.


 
Pay with peanuts -- end up losing employes that are good at their job, others will not bite.



smwilliamson said:


> The trick is to create an incentive to work more and work smarter.


 
The incentive is to create a bonus for the number of jobs done in a fixed timeframe per day / month. This will teach them to work smarter, not harder and faster, working harder and faster leads to mistakes, which in turn leads to call backs to fix those mistakes.



smwilliamson said:


> Part of this overall plan will also create rewards for NFI...say $2000 bonus and an increase in base pay.


 
See above.



smwilliamson said:


> How about $1 per post here on the forum. Lets say an employee of mine spend a couple hours a week here askin and answerin...they will learn a lot! What do you folks think?


 
They will learn from here, I have and I'm not a HVAC tech. There is alot of good info here, but there is also alot of info that is jumbled up.

Tech's will need to research. Books, the net, and most of all, the manual that comes with the product that they are fixing / servicing. Oh, and don't forget the programs / schools where HVAC Tech's are trained.

Food for thought ? Good luck.


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## 343amc (Jan 6, 2013)

What about flat rate like some auto repair shops?  

For example, say an install of a free standing stove vented through the wall is estimated to take 6 hours. They get paid for 6 hours. They get it done in 4, they move to their next job and get paid for 6.  If it takes them 12 hours, they get paid for 6. That covers you as the business owner. 

But, rework is on their own dime. Gives them inventive to do it efficiently (to make more $$$), but also incentive to do it correctly to avoid going back.

EDIT 5 minutes later:  drink more coffee, realize what you call piece work is probably the same idea I posted above.


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## Wachusett (Jan 6, 2013)

smoke show said:


> piece work sucks. just sayin. find honest hard working mature people that do what their asked to when their asked to and the problem is solved.
> 
> speaking from expierence.
> 
> out.


 
Find honest hard working people......................where? They don't just fall of trees. All most people want is more money and less work.
Work ethic and pride in what one does are rare commodities.

SMW, how about tracking there production and quality stats. Jobs completed vs. call backs. Workers with the least call backs per say 100 service calls get
the bonus. Or some such structure that can measure perfomance, reward it and avoid working to fast to miss things/make mistakes. Getting things right the
first time should ge goal number one. Call backs are money lost and schedule killers.

You could also make it a sliding scale for techs with more or less experience. So there's something for everyone to shoot for.

just my 2 pennies.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Gary Gileau said:


> I honestly believe in incentives. We used to pay the crushing plant people a bonus after they met a minimum tonage. It turned them into "partners", the more they produced the more they made! My God! I had to hold them back. You need to think it through. There is a fine ballance between quantity and quality. All in all if you can find a formula that works it benefits everyone. It creates competition and pride.
> 
> Like I said think it through and you will find something that works. If you are able to get them to make you more money, why not share it with them!


I just want them to do more and want to do it. It sucks having 200 people in the queue and them asking for a day off.


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## Murph (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott I understand your frustration. I used to own another business and had employees. Most never really wanted to give the same care to the job they were at or the business they were involved with that I did - it was my business and much more than just money to pay the bills. Trying to make them feel that you see them as an important part of the success of the business is critical to developing an employee, if they want to be and that is on them. Make them feel they are part of a team where everyone has each others back and are supportive, good, easy, and consistent communication is key. Let them know you have a plan to get them where you want them and that plan is as much for them as the business. Your idea of being on the forum is a great one, per your suggestion I spend time here and try to help when I feel really sure about my info. I bet you have other ideas of how to increase their knowledge including the NFI certification that would help in their ability to do a job at someones house. Finally lots of praise for jobs well done and a stern what seems to be the problem when mistakes or constant call backs occur. My wife has a great way of handling this which is to throw the ball back in their court with " how do you think we can solve this issue, is there something you need from me that would help?" This lets them know your are concerned and are willing to help but the resolution has to come from them as well. I have done this job now for two years and love the work but always find myself trying to think things through, being wrong and realizing more that I know only a little compared to someone like yourself, your employees could feel the same in a lot cases not to mention the pressure to get to the next account. These is just my experience and opinion hope there is something here you can use.


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## CladMaster (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I just want them to do more and want to do it. It sucks having 200 people in the queue and them asking for a day off.


 
There has to be a cut off -- Most people that work also need to have a social life, if they are at work 24/7 and have no social life / time out, they tend to get sloppy with the work at hand and mistakes are made. It's all good and well earning the $$$, but they got to be able to spend it too.

Again, employ more people to ease the workload for others so that they can have time out to recharge.


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## rkshed (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I'm at a loss. Salary doesnt work in the winter cause hours are too long and the work is relentlessly never-ending.
> 
> The above statement is true of all "seasonal" work.
> I am certainly not trying to be critical here( I have been through this) but it may be time to remind the salaried techs that their salary is the same during the slow season. This is assuming that they are the reason you are asking this.
> If you are feeling that your pay structure is unfair but you want your techs to remain salaried, perhaps an incentive bonus of some sort is appropriate but remember, whatever you do, it is nearly imossible to roll back any increase if and when you need to.


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## Don2222 (Jan 6, 2013)

Hi Scott

When you make $300 when you send a guy out on a stove cleaning, pay him $200. That should work.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Don2222 said:


> Hi Scott
> 
> When you make $300 when you send a guy out on a stove cleaning, pay him $200. That should work.


You have no idea how to run a business do you? Give the employees two thirds of the gross sales will put you out of business sorta quick.

Who pays Colleen? My third or their two thirds?
Who registers the trucks? That just cost $1200
Who pays for these phones? $460 a month
Ah...certainly there is money available up front for parts...$7k per month
How about my wife that runs the permits....my third of his two thirds?

There is only so many ways you can slice up the pie....1/3 for them is already too much from the company pizza


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## Don2222 (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> You have no idea how to run a business do you? Give the employees two thirds of the gross sales will put you out of business sorta quick.


 
That is the exactly how Amway Products works, like a pyramid. I hear the owner is super rich! 

The biz is all over the country, not in just a small area! The owner really empowers the employees!

The Mary Kay biz is like that also, Their best employees drive pink Cadilacs!
See > > http://mlmdailypost.com/tag/pink-cadillac/

What awards and bonuses do you have in mind?


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Amway is an MLM (multi-level marketing) business, or as it is often called, pyramid scheme. The folks at the top get very rich, the people at the bottom stay poor or quit after they "invest" some cash in the dream.

Good to see you look to powerful business models. Jimminey Christmas.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Im not looking for much really. How about someone who is normal. That doesnt miss 19 days of work in his first 114 days on the job. A guy who says, wow! I get a truck, gas card, expense account, iphone and get to drive around and work on pellet stoves everyday and I bring home more than 500 a week and I have only been here 6 months.

There is room to grow too but damn it, please show so gratitude and ambition. Did everybody get something in their baby formula that just made them unemployable?


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## TLHinCanada (Jan 6, 2013)

Well Scott if I may call you Scott.  I for one have listened with interest as your business has grown over the last couple of years.  Liked it earlier this year when you posted that work schedule that booked for months.  You have now hit the wall that every small business owner reaches.  You have gone from a mom and pop organization to one that requires delegating the job and hoping it will be carried out the way you would.  You will spend less time working with stoves and more time babysitting employees.  That interesting moral decision you had last week with an employee that didn't go the extra required to finish the job is about to become the norm.  There are many directions you can go at this point (I wouldn't suggest piecework).  There are probably a few retiree's like myself that are watching with interest for next development.


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## Murph (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott you are very angry and some of what you say is true about employees but you can or change them. You have to change just don't do it out of anger you will lose do it out of a sincere desire to create a structure that can produce good employees if they are willing again not in your control. Look for new hire them work with them and instill your ethic in them on the job. The. Tell them what you expect on the jobs and make sure they have the support and the knowledge of your expectations. I'm sorry things seem so dim right now. Keep trying you can solve this I know you can I've seen you work. You don't give up and can think outside the box.


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## moey (Jan 6, 2013)

I worked at one place that gave a base pay of X and you had to bill 28 hours everyone had the same base pay. After you billed out 28 hours you got 40% of any hours you were able to bill out on top of that. I liked it because it rewarded the individuals considerably who were able to work more effectively and bill more hours in a week. This was in the software industry so it obviously does not carry over exactly. We had some folks who were making more then our CEO they just worked and worked and worked. There was never a shortage of work so it worked well for someone who wanted to make a LOT..


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## Don2222 (Jan 6, 2013)

moey said:


> I worked at one place that gave a base pay of X and you had to bill 28 hours everyone had the same base pay. After you billed out 28 hours you got 40% of any hours you were able to bill out on top of that. I liked it because it rewarded the individuals considerably who were able to work more effectively and bill more hours in a week. This was in the software industry so it obviously does not carry over exactly. We had some folks who were making more then our CEO they just worked and worked and worked. There was never a shortage of work so it worked well for someone who wanted to make a LOT..


 
Very good idea!


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## ChandlerR (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott, you're seeing what I see every day at my company.  When I was young, we all had work ethics. I've been with my company for 32 years and have taken 11 sick days. It's the way I was raised. I care about how I do my job.  The kids we're hiring now are...freaks. They have tattoo's on their faces, studs in their skulls, and a smart phone glued to their hands. They need to be watched constantly and if left alone will avoid work at all costs.  We hire and fire five or six kids a week!  It scares me.  There are still kids out there who care but they are few in numbers.  You have to find them and never let them go.  I'll be watching this thread with much interest!


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

I post these things cause I value all of your input. To my right I have a stack of about 700 work slips from Oct through now, all need to be entered in to data fields. Got taxes coming up this month. Have about 60 people in the queue, working today in Malden and Marshfield cause my trusty local employee has a "back pain" and he went to a Dr. He claimed he did it lifting a stove but wasn't sure.

Perhaps I am hiring the wrong people. How do you know? It takes months to train even people who think they know something. Fall is a the best time to train cause that is when there is the most cash flow and work, then when I have them trained and really need some performance so I can attend to other aspects...they wither. It has been the same with EVERYONE I have hired in the past 4 years. I love being a tech. Its the best job I have ever had. I love the satisfaction of solving a problem. I also love being able to spend a Sunday home with my family. I got kids and all.


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## Stevekng (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> Im not looking for much really. How about someone who is normal. That doesnt miss 19 days of work in his first 114 days on the job. A guy who says, wow! I get a truck, gas card, expense account, iphone and get to drive around and work on pellet stoves everyday and I bring home more than 500 a week and I have only been here 6 months.
> 
> There is room to grow too but damn it, please show so gratitude and ambition. Did everybody get something in their baby formula that just made them unemployable?


 Wow! You have a pretty low opinion of people, to categorize all workers with such low esteem. If you have had such a bad experience with all of your workers, then you can always do a better job screening them, be less demanding,or do the work yourself and downsize. Just remember, would you feel the same way if you worked for someone like yourself?

                     "UNION WORKERS UNITE " That's what you'll be hearing with your mindset. I probably broke about a dozen forum rules with this post, but both sides need to be looked at!


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## Pellet-King (Jan 6, 2013)

I think bringing your problems here is none of our business, It's your's, this is a place to talk about pellet stoves, not your business problem's.
I've been a Flat-Rate Auto Tech most of my 30 yr career, has it good and bad, older I get slower the less you can make.
So your busy now, that's good, well your dead late spring thru summer, deal with it!
Pellet stoves have no were near the complexity of a automobile, there ALL basically the same basic parts, It's not rocket science but I guess people here think it is......
I'm like you I love the satisfaction of solving problem's, I'm a Transmission Tech, have you had sleepless night's waking up at 3am thinking why the trans wont go into overdrive? or why a pellet stove wont drop pellet's?
Do you need 50k+ worth of tool's so you can have a job?
Do you need  laptop's to monitor data from all the 100's of sensor's?
I make decent money but nowhere near the guy that sit's at a desk in a climate controlled office making a few decisions a day for 200k+ a yr


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## smoke show (Jan 6, 2013)

Wachusett said:


> Find honest hard working people......................where?


Over here in the upper midwest I guess...


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 6, 2013)

Sounds like you've reached critical mass, Scott. I have nothing constructive to add because I've never been self employed before other than to say "I feel for you"


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## Stevekng (Jan 6, 2013)

Pellet-King said:


> I think bringing your problems here is none of our business, It's your's, this is a place to talk about pellet stoves, not your business problem's.
> I've been a Flat-Rate Auto Tech most of my 30 yr career, has it good and bad, older I get slower the less you can make.
> So your busy now, that's good, well your dead late spring thru summer, deal with it!
> Pellet stoves have no were near the complexity of a automobile, there ALL basically the same basic parts, It's not rocket science but I guess people here think it is......


 Well said!


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Stevekng said:


> Wow! You have a pretty low opinion of people, to categorize all workers with such low esteem. If you have had such a bad experience with all of your workers, then you can always do a better job screening them, be less demanding,or do the work yourself and downsize. Just remember, would you feel the same way if you worked for someone like yourself?
> 
> "UNION WORKERS UNITE " That's what you'll be hearing with your mindset. I probably broke about a dozen forum rules with this post, but both sides need to be looked at!


What are you talking about? I'm not breaking rules? Just putting it out there. I really do trust in the good in people. I'd like to find another company where an employee can miss so much work. I don't slave drive people. You can only screen people so much then you have to go with it and wait and see. I cannot downsize either....dude, my website gets 100,000 hits a year and the volume of people who need help grows by an enormous amount every year. I cannot do it all.

Yeah, union workers unite against the pellet stove tyrant! You got me all wrong. I just need to vent somewhere, bad enough I'm held in such high esteem that I cannot ask questions about how to fix stuff anymore.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

Enjoy your Sunday folks.....I'm going to work. Rebuild of an Invincible Insert for woman with no heat and an igniter install for a really old guy...also with no heat.


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## TLHinCanada (Jan 6, 2013)

Perhaps its not the place to talk about business problems.  Part of the mandate of this site is to educate as well talk about stove problems.  A lot of the post on this site are about dealers or techs that have taken on a job or contract and screwed it up.  This is a look at the other side.  An owners frustration with techs not doing there job. By the way I don't know about your country, but, here the problems with auto servicing are huge.  As long as your not advertising your service I don't mind hearing about the fun and games.


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## smoke show (Jan 6, 2013)

Sell the business then work for the man. just sayn...


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## Wachusett (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> bad enough I'm held in such high esteem that I cannot ask questions about how to fix stuff anymore.


 
Isn't that someone elses business model around here.


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## simple.serf (Jan 6, 2013)

As a tech, I have found two things that motivate me. First- Everybody wants salary. Not me. I have found through my years that hourly pay motivates me. Second- Overtime. I love overtime. Everybody else wants to be out the door at 4:30. I'll stay until the job is done. Work Saturday? Sure. Hell, I'm going in today (sunday am) to measure how much floor tile we will need to repair under some 15 year old rotator ovens that are being replaced on Wednesday.

We have to have our own tools, our own trucks, and if you are travelling to your "home location" (I have two, depending on the day of the week), you don't get paid mileage (standard commute). In return, we get health, dental, 2 weeks vacation, a reasonable hourly pay, and all the hours we want.

I take pride in my work, and as such, I don't want a callback (we have enough to do, and everybody knows _those_ techs), though you will get them from time to time.

Recently, I have been training two kids who have come from a facilities maintenance program. One has a kid of his own, and as such is very responsible, and is willing to put in some serious hours. They both take pride in their work and see this as a career. Next time you are looking for someone, check with a local vo-tech program to see if they have anyone who might work. Another advantage is that they have the basics, and you can train them your way.

Good luck!
Paul


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## btuser (Jan 6, 2013)

It's really hard to keep good help in a seasonal business.  As far as "incentivizing"  technicians, it works to a certain point, and again is hard to maintain in a seasonal business.  Techs who are willing to bust ass to make 2k/week during the busy cycle are not going to stick around for the slow weeks of $200. Piece work is a dubious way to pay in a residential environment, too many variables to standardize.  If you're using a sales force to sell your product it can put them at odds over the cost of the install ("Lady, I get paid extra to do that, and the salesman didn't say nothing about this").  Service not so much, but when a tech has to pay their bills with the cost of the job you start getting calls about $400 controllers that didn't need replacing and per hour charges.  Just my experience. 

We pay by experience, and certify (in-house) that level of competence.  Everyone starts at $15/hr base pay, and as a tech adds feathers to their cap they are rewarded.  This makes it worth it for techs to learn on their own time.  Some techs make $25+/hr, and the best paid techs are the most knowledgeable. They also have to keep up with it to keep their levels of certification (and the accompanying boost in pay).  This is assuming they make it as a tech.  

It's great that you have the work.  Have you looked into sub-contracting some of your service/install work?


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

btuser said:


> It's really hard to keep good help in a seasonal business. As far as "incentivizing" technicians, it works to a certain point, and again is hard to maintain in a seasonal business. Techs who are willing to bust ass to make 2k/week during the busy cycle are not going to stick around for the slow weeks of $200. Piece work is a dubious way to pay in a residential environment, too many variables to standardize. If you're using a sales force to sell your product it can put them at odds over the cost of the install ("Lady, I get paid extra to do that, and the salesman didn't say nothing about this"). Service not so much, but when a tech has to pay their bills with the cost of the job you start getting calls about $400 controllers that didn't need replacing and per hour charges. Just my experience.
> 
> We pay by experience, and certify (in-house) that level of competence. Everyone starts at $15/hr base pay, and as a tech adds feathers to their cap they are rewarded. This makes it worth it for techs to learn on their own time. Some techs make $25+/hr, and the best paid techs are the most knowledgeable. They also have to keep up with it to keep their levels of certification (and the accompanying boost in pay). This is assuming they make it as a tech.
> 
> It's great that you have the work. Have you looked into sub-contracting some of your service/install work?


My business is not seasonal anymore...I found a way through service contracts to keep the work and cash flow positive most of the year. I'm paying 12.50 an hr to start with no experience, 15 per hr after the first 180 days or can demonstrate basic knowledge up front, from there the pay goes up as you learn more. You get a 2K bonus for NFI annually and we pay for the test, you get health after a year...and it's the same plan I do for myself...75% paid and two weeks paid vacation, each year after the first. Oh, and you get a phone and a truck and the tools.....I would offer all this and 20 something an hour if someone would show up and put the customers first. If some one came to me with NFI and a Mass Solid fuel and a great attitude....this would be the best job you have ever had. Just sayin...

....yes, I'm a tyrant.


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## Cozy Old Coot (Jan 6, 2013)

Pellet-King said:


> think bringing your problems here is none of our business, It's your's, this is a place to talk about pellet stoves, not your business problem's.


 


TLHinCanada said:


> Perhaps its not the place to talk about business problems.


 
*Simply very well put    *


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## PoolGuyinCT (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I'm at a loss. Salary doesnt work in the winter cause hours are too long and the work is relentlessly never-ending. Hourly pay doesn't work cause the overtime vs. quality production and call backs really drives up labor.
> 
> So I'm thinking outside the box. Haven't commited to it yet but I have designs on piece work and a very low (possibly absolutely minimum wage) hourly base rate. The trick is to create an incentive to work more and work smarter. Part of this overall plan will also create rewards for NFI...say $2000 bonus and an increase in base pay. How about $1 per post here on the forum. Lets say an employee of mine spend a couple hours a week here askin and answerin...they will learn a lot! What do you folks think?






Hah!  Been there done that.. Try this with most efficient tech. Set him up with a set of hands and feet. (I know lots of one man jobs, put them in truck together.)  the tech will run the crew (crew running brings the best out of my best techs.)

The goal is to increase production & create a helper that is already unloading or sourcing what the tech needs before he asks.
The helper will become a protege. (Very important to pick the right helper.)

Set them up with devices tablets whatever to process service calls and collects payment, I know it's hard to delegate this aspect, it turns a truck into a store.

The crew concept is going to raise the cost sending your ace guy out, no doubt about it. It's imperative to pick right helper, to pull this off!

What do you think they will talk about all day? Fixing equipment!

Things I don't tolerate, messy trucks, not replenshing inventory, lateness, looking like a bum.

Create guys that do more than spin a wrench, you will quickly see who is worth training and more importantly who gives a dam. 

A common mistake carefully choosing a techs helper. Before you know it you will have to buy the ace mans helper a truck!


I always ask they tech what he and his helper talk about between jobs, get the right  two guys together its always fixing pools!


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## TheMightyMoe (Jan 6, 2013)

No need to bash on this thread, no one made you read it or post in it. He has helped tons of people here. A lot of us find these threads interesting, if you don't, don't read it. Thanks.

God Bless America.

Good luck in your business endeavors, you keep America running. I know the problems you face with work ethic and finding reliable employees.


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## SwineFlue (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes, this thread is about his business problems: getting better work results at a lower cost... in other words providing his customers better service for a fair price.   There are a lot of 'stove problem' threads here where the owner has not been able to find good service at a fair price in their area.


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## pauly2110 (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I post these things cause I value all of your input. To my right I have a stack of about 700 work slips from Oct through now, all need to be entered in to data fields. Got taxes coming up this month. Have about 60 people in the queue, working today in Malden and Marshfield cause my trusty local employee has a "back pain" and he went to a Dr. He claimed he did it lifting a stove but wasn't sure.
> 
> Perhaps I am hiring the wrong people. How do you know? It takes months to train even people who think they know something. Fall is a the best time to train cause that is when there is the most cash flow and work, then when I have them trained and really need some performance so I can attend to other aspects...they wither. It has been the same with EVERYONE I have hired in the past 4 years. I love being a tech. Its the best job I have ever had. I love the satisfaction of solving a problem. I also love being able to spend a Sunday home with my family. I got kids and all.


 
The guy from lakeville that works for you isn't bad but he sure isnt you, I'd rather pay the money to have u there then anyone else period......


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## Bkins (Jan 6, 2013)

pauly2110 said:


> The guy from lakeville that works for you isn't bad but he sure isnt you, I'd rather pay the money to have u there then anyone else period......


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## Bkins (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott,

I do not know you other then what you have posted here.  I enjoy reading your posts and have learned some to boot.  If others don't think you ought to post about your business and how to make it better I feel sorry for them.  I for one think what you have posted in this thread does belong on this forum as it is all pellet stove related and informative.

Don't have much input into your problem or questions other then to say keep asking and brainstorming.  Seems like you are paying a fair wage and have provided a means for a employee to move on up.  Who ever made the comment about todays workforce not wanting to work I couldn't agree more with what was said.  When you have to add a section in the rules broschure about not answering texts/phone calls on company time it kinds of shows you how things stand.  This seems to occur more with the 30 and below crowd.  Attitude adjustment is something that is being mentioned more and more in the workforce.  I better stop here.

Sorry if you have to work on Sunday but that is one of the downfalls of owning a business.  Some chose not to go into business just for that reason alone.

Hope you are able to come up with something that will work for you and your company.


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## DexterDay (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> ?....... I get a truck, gas card, expense account, iphone and get to drive around and work on pellet stoves everyday and I bring home more than 500 a week and I have only been here 6 months.



That sounds like pretty good incentive. By today's standards, and at 6 months service. How old are these people? 

If I ever fail at doing what I do now, I would gladly head up your way......


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## Ejectr (Jan 6, 2013)

The title of this thread gives an indication that it is business related.  If you don't want to read business related posts, you have a choice.  Don't open it.

Every forum seems to have its post police that suddenly decide what is supposed to and not supposed to be written.  Let the administrators decide what they want on their forum.  Scott didn't come here for a lecture.  He came here for what he felt would be a friendly port in the storm for maybe some intelligent advice.  I'd hate like hell to have to tell him he came to the wrong place because of some attitudes.


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## hoverfly (Jan 6, 2013)

In all my experience working in manufacturing and as an oil burner technician, they were the most dynamic situations that I have ever experienced in dealing with people. I just finished a management class in an effort to obtain a business management degree. My management class opened up my mind much more in understanding that managing people is a very dynamic environment. Management is a science and art; of psychology, sociology, life experience, mathematics level of algebra, and accounting. So what is my point? Everybody is different, everybody is motivated differently. Most people who are working for you are one of three behavors. First is to have a career, second for some it is just a job, or third just to survive. But all their needs to be satisfied are different, therefor, no one solution fits all. So most businesses focus on those who fit a criteria  that most or everyone at that business fits in. Unfortunately for me I don't fit into a common category. I am a very dynamic person that has discovered that if I want any peace in my life, how i make money, is no longer working for somebody else or at the bottom of the pig pile. 

So what might be part of the solution for your problem? Good pay, overtime, and recognition of their good hard work. Do not single anyone out as your favorite, or buddy up with certain people. You are outside the circle of people; you are there to manage them to make money not to be their best friend. 
So for those who think managers do nothing, while they make $200,000 a year think again. They make more money than you because they have to run everything that involves in the business that you do not see and manage you at the same time.


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## webbie (Jan 6, 2013)

Yeah, tough place to talk about business problems because it includes the general public as well as the trade - etc......

Only a couple small comments I can make.......

Paying them for posts on the forum will not work out. If they don't have the smarts to help themselves, you can't pay for it......

Let me start with where I am coming from - I hired an installer in 1979 and he is still with the folks that own my own store. That's a pretty good record, IMHO. Then again, I never tried to get him to do more for less, but rather to do more for more.

Lots more.

My main installer raised a family, owned a house, had money to buy and fix up houses on his own (in his off times), etc.

At first, he worked on the books as an employee, but with the off-season, that got hard after awhile, so I made him a sub. But, he was only MY sub, other than stuff like remodeling houses in the off-season, etc. 

Back in the early 90's I remember him getting over 110K a year from us in payments. Of course, he had his own truck and tools and even a helper for a lot of the time. Still, that's the equiv. of 200K+ today.

It's a fine line. On one hand you want someone who is quite capable of starting a business which is like yours or similar (going out on his own). On the other hand, you want them to make money for you and make life easier! So you have to walk that line.

In terms of turning a poor employee into a good one...that's impossible in my book. IMHO, you know after a few weeks. People rarely change in that fashion.


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## stoaf88 (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott has given more free info out on this forum than pretty much any other member here.

If it was not for him this forum would suffer.

Good luck with your business Scott, and I may just be that guy who shows up with solid fuel and NFI soon haha!


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## boosted3g (Jan 6, 2013)

I always appreciate and enjoy reading your posts but this one seems to be an internal issue.  Perhaps there is a union hall you can hire from that may have experienced men?


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## The Village Idiot (Jan 6, 2013)

Scott,

1) Thanks for your input here on this message board. You're an asset to it. Pay no attention to the trolls/flamers/naysayers.
2) You might be a perfectionist like myself. Most often, our expectations are set high. When they're not met, we become disappointed.
3) Sounds like you're experiencing one of the negative aspects of owning a business that is relative to all business owners.
4) You're blessed beyond measure to actually HAVE your own business. You could always be (as smoke show put it) workin' for the man. Don't ever lose sight of that.
5) If ever you expand your business to Northern Maine and/or Eastern Canada, hit me up. I'll make it my goal to cast a good light on the mindset toward your "hired help". 

Hang in there and keep your posts, comments, and pics comin' in!


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## MountainSean (Jan 6, 2013)

Sounds to me like you are already paying a fair amount. Wages of course have to factor in the area you live in so I have no idea if $15 an hour is a good amount for a skilled trade technician in your area. The benefits were always where I found most people to really tip the scales and you have medical dental, paid vacation (I would love me some paid vacation) and such seems like you are doing it right. In my experience though you will find one good worker for every 20 that turn out to not be and every 100 you turn away from the start. Just keep plugging away and when you find someone good keep hold of them.

For a pay scale I think that an hourly +bonus per job over a set # completed is a good way to go. With any call backs for something missed being taken out of the bonus. That way they have an incentive to work hard and an incentive to do the job right. What the pay scale, bonus and penalty is I don't know enough about your job market to say.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

flame on, flame on...had no idea passions would be so

I hear you all and thanks....I see webbie came on board with advice and no moderation...thanks craig...thought about postng in another forum but this is the only place I hang...got in a 745 tonight.

While I was out, a family in town who is always doing benefits for their son with leukemia called in. I ran out of time tonight to get over there and comp them some heat, their son needs a bone marrow transplant or they'll lose him....make any problem I have pale in comparison....but did make me want to stay in tonight and hang with my two kiddos....gotta run and put them to bed. Thanks for all your kind words...even you naysayers...love ya.


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## Stevekng (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> What are you talking about? I'm not breaking rules? Just putting it out there. I really do trust in the good in people. I'd like to find another company where an employee can miss so much work. I don't slave drive people. You can only screen people so much then you have to go with it and wait and see. I cannot downsize either....dude, my website gets 100,000 hits a year and the volume of people who need help grows by an enormous amount every year. I cannot do it all.
> 
> Yeah, union workers unite against the pellet stove tyrant! You got me all wrong. I just need to vent somewhere, bad enough I'm held in such high esteem that I cannot ask questions about how to fix stuff anymore.


 If you read my post, you'll see that I said I was probably breaking the forum rules, not you. I think you should consider selling the business and go into something less stressfull.


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## ChandlerR (Jan 6, 2013)

DexterDay said:


> That sounds like pretty good incentive. By today's standards, and at 6 months service. How old are these people?
> 
> If I ever fail at doing what I do now, I would gladly head up your way......


 
This would be a dream job for me.  After repairing cars for years, pellet stoves are pretty simple.  I just had a knee replacement and kneeling is out of the question for a while...maybe when I retire I'll be ready.  I would love to do that.  I'm such a perfectionist, I'm sure there would be lot's of happy customers.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Jan 6, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> flame on, flame on...had no idea passions would be so
> 
> I hear you all and thanks....I see webbie came on board with advice and no moderation...thanks craig...thought about postng in another forum but this is the only place I hang...got in a 745 tonight.
> 
> While I was out, a family in town who is always doing benefits for their son with leukemia called in. I ran out of time tonight to get over there and comp them some heat, their son needs a bone marrow transplant or they'll lose him....make any problem I have pale in comparison....but did make me want to stay in tonight and hang with my two kiddos....gotta run and put them to bed. Thanks for all your kind words...even you naysayers...love ya.


No Scott....thank you!


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## staplebox (Jan 6, 2013)

You initially asked for advice on setting up a pay system that will incentivize your employees to do more/better work. However, as you post more about the problem, you clearly indicate that your problems are related to who you hire and how you train them. (You say that in 4 years you have never hired a good employee and that after you train them and turn them loose they "wither".) I don't mean this as a put down - because you seem to want to work hard and do well but - imagine that you had a boss - some imaginary person who set you up in this business. How would they grade you on the workforce you've developed here?

Rather than look at different pay systems why don't you focus on your hiring practices and training? Maybe get some outside help.

Related video clips from the book, "Good to Great" by Collins.

http://www.jimcollins.com/media_topics/first-who.html#audio=95

http://www.jimcollins.com/media_topics/first-who.html#audio=77


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## billb3 (Jan 6, 2013)

I don't know how many hats you're wearing, but at some point you have to hire someone to do the work under  one (or more).
Even if it is part time. 


Having been in the service industry since 1990 I can vouch for the difficulty finding really good help.
Maybe it's time to open another home base office in the Leominster area.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 6, 2013)

staplebox said:


> You initially asked for advice on setting up a pay system that will incentivize your employees to do more/better work. However, as you post more about the problem, you clearly indicate that your problems are related to who you hire and how you train them. (You say that in 4 years you have never hired a good employee and that after you train them and turn them loose they "wither".) I don't mean this as a put down - because you seem to want to work hard and do well but - imagine that you had a boss - some imaginary person who set you up in this business. How would they grade you on the workforce you've developed here?
> 
> Rather than look at different pay systems why don't you focus on your hiring practices and training? Maybe get some outside help.
> 
> ...


I have read that book a long time ago. The problem with my current guy is that I cannot count on him. He works well when he works but no pay system will change his stripes. I'm going to hire two more people this year so I'm planning out whether the system I have right now is working. I'm hoping to cut my service calls down to 2 days a week through next season...


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## Coonskiner (Jan 7, 2013)

Scott

Im a sales/ project manager for a fence com. in East Texas. Im 34 and im not the owner but I treat each project as I im because I care. Been doing this for 10 years same com. Most of my work is in the Petro Chem Plants and Pipeline where i can't use subs. I have the same problems with some of my hourly guys. On my commercial and new contruction jobs i use subs and pay them by the job. It works out great most of the time. In the fence industry most com. use subs 90% of the time. I found this forum because Im looking for answer to a soot problem with a Procom fire log set i installed in my woodburner fire place. I ran across this trend thinking i might get the samething you are looking for. Any way i give you lots of respect for doing what you are doing. Its not easy but people like you is what help build this country.

As for being off topic. Im a member of other forums and we get off topic all time. If you post here a lot than its like seating around with a group of friends. You should be able to talk about anything with your friend. As long as your not hijacking another trend.


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## begreen (Jan 7, 2013)

Not sure where to move this, but it's off topic for the pellet forum and more a general employer question. Hope this works out for you Scott. Please don't stop the dialog.


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## jebatty (Jan 7, 2013)

Robots with a speed control. Speed 'em up when busy, slow 'em down when not. Fixed price, so the more they work, the less per hour paid.

Seriously, motivate, incentives, and treat employees like living creature


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## kinsmanstoves (Jan 7, 2013)

Good luck and when you find the answer let me know.

Eric


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## ironpony (Jan 7, 2013)

Scott, I have been thinking long and hard how to reply to this. My background is probably similiar to your experience.I found something I enjoy, challenges me and I am good at it. Started out by myself grew to needing a helper continued growing to 8-9 guys, drove myself crazy managing them wanting them to do the work the same as I would do. Went back to myself and a helper for several more years, had to turn down work made the same money with less headaches.

Fast foward several years have a 27000 sq ft building have 15 full time techs 2 office staff 2 sales and myself along with a pool of techs we draw from on larger projects some of which are running 100 guys. we do environmental work which means we also deal with every govt regulatory agency in Ohio adding more paperwork and rules to comply with. you have to teach yourself to delegate responsibility and trust it is getting done correctly. hiring people to do the work, well if you figure that out you will be rich teaching othews to do it. people are the wild card in business

I guess where I am going with this is some people are not cut out to run a business and if it is frustrating you ths badly you might want to go back to being a smaller entity.It does not mean you do not know what you are doing, and that is not what I am saying, but being a great stovetech in your case does not mean being a great business owner. I have been blessed with a man who manges the financials and if it were not for him we would not be where we are today. You have to figure out and KNOW how much you are actually making and proceed from there with hiring office staff for scheduling, paperwork etc. and maybe more techs to cover the field work. Expecting some one to put in the hours you do and have the same pride of workmanship is not going to happern, because if you find them they will be running thier own business next year.

And back to financials, I have found over the years that most small business owners do not know what thier bottom line / margins are. you said you have a stack of data to be entered, so that tells me you do not know where you stand on margins you might be slowly sinking this time of year even though you are busy, I learned this the hard way also. Right now I can tell you to the penny what we made, what we spent and everthing in between. Do you know what it costs you everday to unlock the door?? what your fixed costs are to operate the business whether or not there is work??

really I am only trying to help, please do not see this as an attack on you or your business, be open minded and try to learn from other experience. Hopefull something I have said will help you go in the right direction.


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## brian89gp (Jan 7, 2013)

First, you got to start with good people as no amount of squeezing a lemon will give you an orange. That part is on you.

Culture has changed yes. Workers aren't necessairly less motivated or don't work as hard, they just now require different reasons to be motivated and to work harder. As a younger person of the mindset that you are complaining about, I can speak from experience that if motivated wrong I can be that type of employee that does what is required and not go out of my way to do more. If you don't care about me, I won't care about you, simple as that. Does that make me a bad worker? To some people undoubtely so but to others I am the employee that you throw money at to keep (not that money was the reason I was staying or working hard anyways...) I have worked those 48+ hour shifts for no extra pay and refused to go home when offered the chance all because I wanted to stay and fix the problem. My employer treats me well (beyond monetary things) so I will do the same for them.

The automatic sense of loyality is pretty much gone, love it or hate it. Previous generations had reasons to be loyal (pensions, unions, raises, and a more stable economy) so even as those reasons have dissapeared the loyality has remained somewhat ingrained. Many people in my generation do not have the loyality unless the employer does something to warrant it because by and large there are fewer reasons to be loyal these days.

So the question is, are you bad at hiring and only hiring lemons? Or have you had good people over the years but due to the job environment they just acted like lemons? Its an honest question as nobody here other then you knows.


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## Jags (Jan 7, 2013)

In a service industry (as my company is in), your ground pounding work force is going to make you or break you. If you have questionable employees (and you know who they are) get rid of them.  Hire someone better. At my company, if we have a position open up, we hire someone better than the last one.  It is not easy or fun, but it is YOUR business.  Leadership starts at the top and works down. A bad employee can be a poison pill for the rest.  Get good employees and then SHOW them that you care.
Also, a little business education can go a long ways with employees.  Gather them up and inform them. Explain why a callback costs you double.....etc.  You might be amazed at how they will react to them being part of the _team_.
Good luck and I hope things work out for the better.


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## mikefrommaine (Jan 7, 2013)

If you have more work than you and your techs can comfortably handle it sounds like you need to raise your rates. Make more per transaction, be less hectic and be able to pay for better techs. 12.50 an hour is not going to get you dependable employees. Day laborers get about that here in Maine (through temp agencies)


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## The Village Idiot (Jan 7, 2013)

begreen said:


> Not sure where to move this, but it's off topic for the pellet forum and more a general employer question. Hope this works out for you Scott. Please don't stop the dialog.


 
Don't move this thread, are you kidding? It's the best one we've had in weeks around here. Look at all of the great dialog it has fostered amongst the members! There is PLENTY of room for this thread to exist in The Pellet Mill.
People need to realize that what we're seeing with this thread of discussion is the struggles of a business owner within the world of the wood pellet heating industry.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a burn pot to scrape.


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## seige101 (Jan 7, 2013)

Speaking as an electrician as to what various employers have done over the years.

I hated starting to pack up the van at 3pm only to be told  we have to finish this non time sensitive job. I have a life outside of work, i have plans to do things with the significant other when i get home. You knew about this job at least a day in advance, just give me a heads up and say we are busy and may need to stay an hour or 2 later a few days this week. Do not tell me on a Friday at 3:30 pm when i am getting in my truck that we are working on Saturday. Again you knew all week you wanted to work Saturday. Ask me if i want to work over time, most of the time i love the extra $$ in my pocket. However understand we employees get burnt out after doing 50-60 hours a week for 3 weeks in a row. Especially in summer!

I asked numerous times if we could do 4 10 hour days and then a half a day on Fridays during the summer. We get more done and a few extra hours to catch up, as a bonus semi longer weekend!

Suggested the same at another company when we got busy in the summer. Owner was an alcoholic and had to be home at 3:30 every day to start drinking then wanted us to work Saturdays. We said no we are happy to stay a few hours extra each day.

Incentives, worked for a company that offered us $50 cash bonus if we finished the rough in electric in 1 day(16 man hours). (normal time was 2 guys 18-20 man hours) It was do able if we busted our asses and skipped breaks and only took a 10 minute lunch break.

We like the above the best because it rewarded us for busting our ass. The other crews who would goof off or do the minimum were jealous after we were getting an extra $150-200 in cash a week!

Talk to your guys, find out what motivates them. It could be a simple bonus day off (not to be used during busy season).

Like someone else mentioned, maybe a small cash incentive after a set number of installs or service calls without having a call back. For example 10 installs with no call backs is a $25 gas card. Every 15 service calls without a call back is a $25 gas card. Etc etc.

Make it company wide, every 20 installs the company does without a call back everyone gets a small incentive. This will put the pressure on the guys who Fark it up. Their peers will start getting on their case because thats cash out of their own pocket. They will start double checking each other.

Another company we were retrofitting some HVAC controls in 308 apartments in a high rise building. After the 1st week on the project the boss told us if we were able to do 10 apartments in 1 day we could take the rest of the day off but still get paid for 8hours. After getting the hang of it over the course of 2 weeks we were able to be done consistently by 1:30 every day. We would usually do an extra 2 on thursday and he would take us out to lunch on fridays on his dime while still paying us our 8 hours.  He didn't mind paying us when we were at home because he bid the job thinking we would be able to do only 6 units each day. He made extra $$ and we got a nice bonus with free time.

Loved that job in the summer as we were able to enjoy those nice summer days. I usually went out with a buddy on his boat on the river, made for a nice summer. We did a similar job for the same company at a different property in winter. It was another great incentive getting out a few hours in the winter and still having day light.


Some great perks when you do have a good staff can be very minor but go a long way with your guys. Randomly buy coffee for the crew during the busy times. Randomly buy lunch on a Friday, even a simple pizza and a 2 liter bottle of soda means a lot.

If people are slacking off can them and get someone else. With this economy people should be lucky to have a decent job. $12.50 to start is decent, $15 and all the others you mentioned is pretty good entry level and the other incentives you mentioned.

If you were closer to western ma i would consider a career change!


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## btuser (Jan 8, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> My business is not seasonal anymore...I found a way through service contracts to keep the work and cash flow positive most of the year. I'm paying 12.50 an hr to start with no experience, 15 per hr after the first 180 days or can demonstrate basic knowledge up front, from there the pay goes up as you learn more. You get a 2K bonus for NFI annually and we pay for the test, you get health after a year...and it's the same plan I do for myself...75% paid and two weeks paid vacation, each year after the first. Oh, and you get a phone and a truck and the tools.....I would offer all this and 20 something an hour if someone would show up and put the customers first. If some one came to me with NFI and a Mass Solid fuel and a great attitude....this would be the best job you have ever had. Just sayin...
> 
> ....yes, I'm a tyrant.


 
Sounds like you're being fair.  It's hard to find the right people.  I've got no answers when it comes to that.

I just hired a kid who was working for Direct TV.  Near as I can figure it he was working 60hrs/week to net about $4/hr (after his truck, tools, gas ect).  He whined about $12.50/hr for 90 days, until I explained (had to use a white board) that I was in effect tripling his salary.  It's got to be the new math people are teaching kids today.  They don't know a good thing when its put in their lap.


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## smwilliamson (Jan 9, 2013)

ironpony said:


> Scott, I have been thinking long and hard how to reply to this. My background is probably similiar to your experience.I found something I enjoy, challenges me and I am good at it. Started out by myself grew to needing a helper continued growing to 8-9 guys, drove myself crazy managing them wanting them to do the work the same as I would do. Went back to myself and a helper for several more years, had to turn down work made the same money with less headaches.
> 
> Fast foward several years have a 27000 sq ft building have 15 full time techs 2 office staff 2 sales and myself along with a pool of techs we draw from on larger projects some of which are running 100 guys. we do environmental work which means we also deal with every govt regulatory agency in Ohio adding more paperwork and rules to comply with. you have to teach yourself to delegate responsibility and trust it is getting done correctly. hiring people to do the work, well if you figure that out you will be rich teaching othews to do it. people are the wild card in business
> 
> ...


Something that I have seriously been trying to wrangle all year. This is the first year that we actually went into it with a budget, so I was able to figure out my true operating costs but from Oct-Dec, most of it is a blur as I'm not able to be in the office to manage anything whatsoever.


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## Lousyweather (Jan 9, 2013)

Scott-
Take it from another "many hat wearer"......you have to look long and hard for "good" employees. Sometimes they are like milk.....they start out good, but sour quickly. Part of your "job", I guess is determining when something just isnt working, and acting accordingly (give em the axe). Someone who is unreliable is worse that noone at all. You make appointments for both of you, then, when he doesnt come in because he has a headache, your scheduled is messed up. Dont expect ANY of them to have the same work ethic as you do....its just not going to happen.
As for motivation, some you cant motivate. You can maybe minimze your risk by looking for people who actually NEED the money. Folks with families, kids, DEBT. Unfortunately, anyone who is motivated by money will never be happy. You will constantly have to "up the ante" to keep them happy. Key here is to pay them enough that they cant jump ship easily....they wont get the same money anywhere else. And to be honest, I think in the state of MA $12.50 is somewhat low. I know, I know, all the bennnies you are giving them have value, and they certainly do, but the cold hard fact is that MOST people DO NOT PUT A VALUE ON BENNIES! Health insurance, a vehicle, a phone, matching 401K (or SIMPLE plan, if youre small),etc....as a business owner, we can enumerate their value, but, well, until its needed, it has no value to the employee.
How else to motivate? Well, donuses are good, but they all too often arent looked at as a bonus by the employee. Hand him $2000, you'll get a thanks, but likely wont build any real thanks. Gosh, I am so cynical.
Beware the money guy tho.....first chance he gets, because he can  get 50 cents more an hour, he's gonzo......dont fall into that trap. Only thing I can say there is pay them well, toward the high end of the scale, and they wont EASILY be able to go anywhere. Also, dont overlook a major part of the workforce- women, older folks. Hate to say it, but both are generally more reliable than the guy who lives in an apartment and just works for food, cable, and jeans. Ive met some exceedingly capable semi-retired folks who are just looking for something to do.....maybe you only work them 20 hours per week, but evenso, its still 20 hours per week of help. Women? Again, a great choice....they arent as itinerant, often have a better rapport with customers, and female customers SOMETIMES prefer them! Oddly, its funny that sometimes those same female cstomers seem to have a bias when it comes to men and women and equipment.....they seem much more likely to "ask for a man"....weird......

I feel for you pal, as I can sense that you are "right there" with that next growth step. Frankly, I always wondered how you did all that travelling. The thing is, you also need to learn to enjoy life....its not all work!

Bon Chance!


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## MasterMech (Jan 10, 2013)

Lousyweather said:


> Women? Again, a great choice....they arent as itinerant, often have a better rapport with customers, and female customers SOMETIMES prefer them!


 
My wife is a firm believer that women are far more task-oriented and work harder than any of the men they have had work for them (She manages a kennel.).


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## firefighterjake (Jan 10, 2013)

WHAT? Women working for a paycheck and not staying home cleaning the home and making dinner for the hard working man of the house? This is crazy talk . . . next thing you know folks will be talking about women who cut firewood and load the woodstove.  

One thing my wife and I have discussed is how women as a rule tend to be quite good at multi-tasking . . . I know my wife's mind is like a super computer and can do many things at once . . . whereas my mind is like an old Pong game.


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## Flatbedford (Jan 10, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> My business is not seasonal anymore...I found a way through service contracts to keep the work and cash flow positive most of the year. I'm paying 12.50 an hr to start with no experience, 15 per hr after the first 180 days or can demonstrate basic knowledge up front, from there the pay goes up as you learn more. You get a 2K bonus for NFI annually and we pay for the test, you get health after a year...and it's the same plan I do for myself...75% paid and two weeks paid vacation, each year after the first. Oh, and you get a phone and a truck and the tools.....I would offer all this and 20 something an hour if someone would show up and put the customers first. If some one came to me with NFI and a Mass Solid fuel and a great attitude....this would be the best job you have ever had. Just sayin...
> 
> ....yes, I'm a tyrant.


 

I think that you will have a hard time finding a guy that is worth $20+ an hour if you only offer him $12.50 to start. That guy is already making $20+ where he is now. Why would he come to you for $12.50? The people that you send out are your most valuable assets. Be ready to treat them that way and they will come to you.


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## raybonz (Jan 10, 2013)

$12.50 per hour in Mass. is peanuts especially if you're dealing with people that need some skill to do their job. What you need to do is pay a decent wage and figure out a way to assess potential techs when hiring them. Good pay will attract good people but also everyone else too. Set a probationary period which allows you to release them if they are not up to snuff and tell this up front and what your expectations are. Create a way to measure performance and make them feel like they have a say in your business. Employees that feel ownership are more likely to have integrity and do what's best for the business. Scott it is up to you make your employees feel like leaders and this in turn will lessen your burden. Create a mission statement then define ways to live up to this statement.. OK done carrying on for now 

Ray


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## smwilliamson (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. Creating the pay structure is all part of the larger plan and why I started the thread. I pay 12.50 for someone with absolutely no experience. People in this pay rate are often without a job already. I'm seeing that what I really need to do is network more and find better qualified people to pay higher wages. Working it out. My problems as of late really stem from an employee that needs to be replaced. More to come I'm sure.


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## Lousyweather (Jan 11, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> Thanks for all the input. Creating the pay structure is all part of the larger plan and why I started the thread. I pay 12.50 for someone with absolutely no experience. People in this pay rate are often without a job already. I'm seeing that what I really need to do is network more and find better qualified people to pay higher wages. Working it out. My problems as of late really stem from an employee that needs to be replaced. More to come I'm sure.


 
There ya go, Scott.....it seems you have ID'd the problem! Go through one after the other till you find the right one....with us, the number of losers before you find a winner is around 5, although you can hedge your bet a bit by checking references that are given. I know, they will only speak well of the person (after all, THEY gave you the reference), but evenso, its a start.


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