# Montpelier vermont castings insert



## allhandsworking

I purchased a Montpelier insert and was told it should be delivered in a couple of weeks. I did research on other products that i never heard of. We haven't heated the house with wood since the 80s. I wish i knew about this web site a week ago. Very informative! I now know the Montpelier is a new insert and doesn't have a history yet. Does anyone have one in operation? Do you like it? Was delivery on time. I have an 80 year old home with a clay tile lined chimney clean. The shop recommended a 4' liner to help with draft and instillation. Does this sound right. The chimney drafted well when used as a fire place. The insert has nice cast iron details and that's what we had back in the day so that is what sold me. Also considered jotel and lope. I was limited with dimensions. The VC Montpelier had a nice fit for my needs.


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## BrotherBart

You are going to be the first on this block with one. It should be a really nice insert. As to venting, line that chimney all the way to the top so you don't have to pull that baby out of the fireplace every time the chimney is cleaned or pay for having it pulled. And there is no way that a "direct connect" will be as efficient as a full liner.


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## webbie

Yeah, an 80 year old chimney probably needs an updated liner anyway.......also, it may be required anyway (by code) if this is an exterior chimney.


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## ernie

I have just started selling these units this fall and have not had time to get feedback yet but it looks like a really good unit, a real winner I think. 
Ernie


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## allhandsworking

The chimney is an interer but I will installe full liner just to get it done.  any recomendations on the brand


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## capivan

Hi!  I just signed up for this forum because I'm looking for some answers on my Montpelier insert.  I saw your posting.  We got ours about two weeks ago and we just finished with our 4 small fires to season it, and now will probably burn all winter long!  We live in NY, it hasn't really been cold enough for a fire yet, but we have had a few fires to get to know it!  So far so good!  We like it alot.  We have a 2000 sqft house and we were a bit constrained by fireplace size, so the Montpelier seemed to be the right choice.   My only complaint is that the front glass has sort of fogged up a bit, and I was going to ask what I could use to clean it.   Regular soap and water?  A bit of black soot and some odd rainbow coloration at the top.   I don't need to be too fussy about that, I bought it for its heat properties, but is there any special cleaning agent I can use or is it a hopeless battle?  Maybe my wood is not as fully seasoned as it needs to be and that is causing excess soot buildup?


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## begreen

Welcome. It might be the cooler break-in fires that have fogged the glass. If so, it should stay clean with hotter fires. Use a damp newspaper, dipped in the wood ash to clean the glass. Works quite well. 

Can you post some pictures of the stove? It would be great to see it installed, especially if it's burning!


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## Smacker

We just had the Montpelier installed. We ordered the outside air kit but our installer said we didn't need it. Hope he is right. We've had two "break-in fires" and our glass has a light amber coating inside also. We finally got the unit hot enough that the blower would kick on and don't ya know the thing is loud! Really hums on low and sounds like something is in the blower. Our installer is coming out to check it out. Hope it is an easy fix because they had a difficult time installing it.
Looking forward to offsetting the oil bill this winter.


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## capivan

The wet newspaper dipped in ash was a terrific tip!! Many thanks for that advice, worked great!

We don't have a real comparison to say whether we think our blower is loud or not....its weird that it comes on automatically, and then sort of goes on and off for awhile....but its working and we can live with the blower noise, but we do have to raise the volume on the TV a bit!

So far, very happy with it!  I'll try to post a picture once I have a fire going ....


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## Smacker

Hey, if the tech tells me that the noise is normal I'm sure I will deal with it. The owners manual says the stove can handle 30 pounds of wood. Never having loaded a woodstove or insert would this be considered alot?


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## VTSR5

Smacker said:
			
		

> Hey, if the tech tells me that the noise is normal I'm sure I will deal with it. The owners manual says the stove can handle 30 pounds of wood. Never having loaded a woodstove or insert would this be considered alot?



It's Vermont Castings' way of saying you have a 1.5 cubic foot firebox.  VC has used an assumption about fuel load that goes back many years in their literature, 20 lbs per cubic foot of firebox capacity.  

Is it a lot?  Well, the Montpelier is on the small end of the spectrum.  But my VC WinterWarm is even smaller at 1.25 cubic feet, yet I can tease an 8 hour burn out of it when everything is right (good wood, careful packing of the firebox, correct air setting.)  So, it's not the size of your insert, it's how well you put the wood...well, you know what I mean.

By the way, I looked at the Montpelier insert in the hearth store the other day, and I thought it was a very handsome unit.  That extra 0.25 cubic feet made the firebox seem HUGE to me!  Good luck with it.


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## STOVEGUY11

It has a sleek look. All the ones we had flew out of here in two weeks. I heard they were on back order till like December. Let us know if the two weeks holds. Maybe we will try to get our hands on some more.


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## bsa0021

I hope it's made better than their Dutchwest 2478!


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## allhandsworking

December 

Dealer told me end of Oct. We will see? I have seen some nice videos on youtube mostly jotels secondary burns. If any Montpelier owners couldost a video that would be great. VC websites pic of the insert are terrible. its a picture of good looking people sipping wine with an insert in the background. My wife wants to see what I spent lots of money on!


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## begreen

It would be great to see some pictures posted here of the Montpelier burning. I'd love to see them.


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## jclee

I had the Montpelier installed 4 days ago. So far so good. The glass does stain up easily but burning the insert hot a couple of times "toasted" the layer of stain and it came off easily with a moist paper towel. The blower is not quiet by any measure. The noise sounds more like the humming of the motor - a low frequence noise with its frequence and intensity remain nearly constant at all fan speed while adding on top of it is the wind noise that goes up with the fan speed. On medium speed the noise level is acceptable but not pleasant by any measure.  I found the hinges on the door weak and the door drops enough to scratch the iron plate jutting out near the bottom of the insert when it swings open. If you apply a little force on the door the hinges would flex a bit.


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## hotcookcpl

My wife and I were looking at the Montpelier earlier in the year and when our dealer said they were back order we quickly switched to a Jotul.  Our dealer told us the the Jotul has a great track record with few repairs issues and the Jotul was slightly cheaper.  Anyway, we loved the look of the VC insert and surrounds, I just didn't want to wait to find out VC was having delivery issues as we got closer to winter.

Please keep us up to date with about these and let us know of problems.

If anyone is interested the blower noise on the Jotul is very quiet to compared to others I've heard.

Good luck with your inserts!


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## bsa0021

jeremiah said:
			
		

> I had the Montpelier installed 4 days ago. So far so good. The glass does stain up easily but burning the insert hot a couple of times "toasted" the layer of stain and it came off easily with a moist paper towel. The blower is not quiet by any measure. The noise sounds more like the humming of the motor - a low frequence noise with its frequence and intensity remain nearly constant at all fan speed while adding on top of it is the wind noise that goes up with the fan speed. On medium speed the noise level is acceptable but not pleasant by any measure.  I found the hinges on the door weak and the door drops enough to scratch the iron plate jutting out near the bottom of the insert when it swings open. If you apply a little force on the door the hinges would flex a bit.



It does not sound too promising! I'm not surprised.


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## allhandsworking

Is it so far so good or not?  Your review sounds negative?


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## Smacker

We had our installer come back out for the fan noise. It is MUCH more acceptable and a very easy fix.
Remove the lower cover and the blower. This only involved removing 4-6 screws. You can then move 
the blower assembly around until the positioning yields the lowest possible noise. Also, the "card" that has 
all the stove info was remove and is stored next to our fireplace. The only noise that could be still be
considered objectionable is when the fan is on low. In checking with some friends with electrical knowledge
I have learned that when the rheostat is set to the lowest setting the "hum" is a  result of applying the
minimum amount of power to the motor which should not be considered unusual. Hope this helps.


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## 88steve

HI, I JUST ORDERED THE MONTPELIER AND HOPE IT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE, WHATS YOUR HONEST OPINION OF IT ANY OTHER PROBLEMS ASIDE FROM THE BLOWER? ALSO WHAT KIND OF HEAT OUTPUT WITH THE BLOWER OFF? NOT MUCH INFO OUT THERE YET  BEING A  NEW MODEL, ANY INFO HELPS THANKS


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## Smacker

I really like the insert. It looks great. The owners manual says to have three to four smaller fires to temper the cast iron and we just had our forth.
Our home is one the small side but with night temp at 32F we were able to raise the room temp from 60F to 76F (thermo about 15' from fireplace) in a few hours 
and 68F in the next room where our oil burner thermostat is (30' away). The most wood I have put in at once was four logs that were only about 4.5 inches (split).
So...according to the manual the stove can handle 30lbs of wood and I had maybe 8-10lbs in and achieved satisfactory heat. Overall at this early point I really do like 
the product.


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## 88steve

hey smacker, what surround did you go with? any problems with the door like jeramiah?


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## Smacker

We chose the Mead for our surround


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## Smacker

I can't seem to get a picture on the site. My pixels are under what is required but I get get it to load.


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## allhandsworking

It is nice to here that the fan noise has been resolved and thank for the fix tip for us do it your selfers. When I was a kid we had a Gibraltar coal stove that had a fan. Of course there was some noise you soon get used to it. We do live in Queens NYC and I don't here planes,train-es or garbage trucks either so I may not be a good judge. I hope to get my Montpelier in a week or so.


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## begreen

Smacker said:
			
		

> I can't seem to get a picture on the site. My pixels are under what is required but I get get it to load.



Check the file size, it should be less than 350k. Try saving it as a jpeg image at around 600x 400 pixels. Here's a link with more info about posting pictures. If you're still having problems, PM me. 

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/27_2/


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## Smacker

Here is a Mont pic. Thanks for your help.


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## allhandsworking

looks nice!  How about another pic when you get good secondary burn!    thanks


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## btj1031

That is a good looking stove.  A much bigger and hotter burn will get rid of the glass staining no problem.


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## Smacker

Our wood delivery should be here any day now. I'll update with a bigger and better burn!


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## jclee

The fan noise now comes and goes and it seems to be most acceptable when it is set in the mid range. It is not bad enough that I want to call back the installers yet. I checked the door hinges again. The bolts are tight, it is the hinges themselves (the metal being too thin to support the weight of the door) that are flexing. The door stains up less when I burnt it hot but cannot be eliminated - it is particularly worse with oak. 

I also notices after 5 nights of usage that there is some minor pittings (pin size) of the ceramic insert. Hope this won't get worse. The secondary burn is very vigorous and when it is going at full force, the stove is very bright and the radiative heat tranfer dominates over the convective heat transfer with the blower operating. The heat output is fine for my 800 sq ft living room. 

By the way, it is sooty unless the air control valve is fully open no matter what wood I use. 

I am not jumping with joy with the quality but I am not kicking myself either. For $3200 (installation included), I probably can make it back from the reduction in fuel oil usage in two seasons. This is a new product and I am happy that it does not blow up or burn down my place (image a microsoft product in its v1.0 release!). Had I found out this is the first year of its release, I would not have gotten it.


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## jclee

Here's a photo showing the second stage combustion occuring at the top of the fire box.


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## Smacker

What is the best way to load this insert for max heat and overall loading advise?


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## jclee

This is how I do it. 

18 inch logs with crossection about 4 inche in diameter. Load them across the width of the fire box and alternate 4 and 3 logs in each layer all the way up. As you load, turn the log and to leave gaps between logs. Another way is to use 14 inch logs and load them along the depth of the firebox, also alternate the number of logs to increase the packing efficience. Make sure there is 2-3 inche of amber on the bottom. Keep an eye on the temperature and use the air control to make sure the stove is not over firing.


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## Theo

VC direct customer support?

Having difficulty with new insert (see next post). VC site is a bit unclear, but implies that they will not provide aftermarket support if stoves are bought from a dealer - is this correct? Also, if I cannot get needed service from my dealer, does it make sense to ask another to provide warranty service?

Thanks-

Theo


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## Theo

Not a good experience so far...

Bought mine over the summer, made the recommended small fires. Seemed to work OK, except fan never came on and air lever was a little sticky.

Got cold here beginning of October, so started using insert in earnest. Air lever completely stuck about halfway, so couldn't start a fire w/o leaving door open (and setting off smoke alarms), then load would burn through in a couple of hours.

Called installer, who said that it's a warranty problem and only dealer can fix it. With great difficulty, got dealer to send his repair guy. He was not familiar with innards of the unit, had no manual or parts. He managed to loosen air valve just a little (breaking off the handle in the process), so it could be almost closed, then never came back to finish the job. Still a serious problem to light or re-start fires, still won't go more than about 5 hours between fills (so no overnight heat). And may be piling up creosote in the flue; the face glass is completely black.

Fan only starts after an hour or two, then comes on intermittently - even with a deep bed of coals and strong secondary burn, often turns off for minutes at a time. I'm thinking that the thermoswitch is either defective, or possibly detached from wherever it's supposed to sit. In addition to intrinsic fan noise (inoffensive), there is an occasional, much louder buzzing from loose sheet metal someplace. Will try fix reported above next time stove is cold.

After weeks of non-returned calls and broken promises, I told the dealer that I'm considering legal action. This got an immediate response - he had the installer call me. I said that I do not want the unit taken out of service for weeks while they wait for parts; that he needs to pre-order whatever might be needed from VC and fix it in one go. Given that he clearly does not know what's inside the unit, I am not optimistic.

Dealer tells me that VC will not deal directly with customers, and dealer service is terrible (nonexistent, really). I am quite concerned about getting this insert fixed properly for the long term, and would prefer a replacement.

I don't know if I just got a bad insert, if it was dropped in shipping, rusted in storage, or what. Would appreciate ideas on how to get some decent service or force a return and buy another one elsewhere. 

Hope you're all having better luck with the Montpelier!

Theo


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## Fod01

Hi All.  New to the board, but had a Montpelier with Meade surround installed in September.  My existing fireplace was a 'heatilator' type, lined with steel plate, with an exterior masonry chimney.  The insert was installed with a full 2 story liner.  So far so good with this stove.  
The glass clouds up a litte faster than I'd like, especially on the hinge side, so I clean it regularly.  I tried the ash/ newspaper trick, but it didn't work too well for me.  I also worry that if I happen to pick up a bit of dirt ( my logs hit the ground sometimes!) that I'll scratch up the glass.  My local HomeDepot carries Rutland Glass Cleaner.  It's basically the same stuff we use to clean our ceramic cooktop, and it works well.  

The stove takes a good hour to heat up.  I light my fires top-down, so perhaps that has something to do with it.  Not as intense a fire at the outset.  The blower comes on intermittantly at first, then constant.  My wife and I find the noise from the blower (which we keep at about the 3 o'clock position) bearable.  The fan that we keep in our doorway to distribute the heat to the rest of our cape cod is louder.  

Cleaning the primary air inlets is a pain.  I try not to let the ash build up too much before emptying.  As for removing ash, I use an old pot with a lid.  I have an ash can that sits on the hearth, but ash would always fly out when emptying.  Instead, I stick the pot in the stove and fill it there.  Any ash that flys out stays in the stove, or goes up the flue.

Looking forward to trying the advice for an overnight burn..  the floor of the firebox seems a bit small, but the 4,3,4 layering seems like it would work. 

Regards


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## allhandsworking

fod your review gives me hope. There have been some negative reviews and i was considering canceling my order. I am constrained buy my fire place depth so there are not to many other makes I can go with. The Montpelier had the biggest fire box and other nice feature's that i liked. It sounds like there are some quirk's that VC needs to iron out other than that it should be a nice insert. I did notice that the hinges look a little flimsey but the door is not that heavy so maybe it wont be a problem.  I think every model will get some fog on the glass so that is probably normal.  good luck and pray for me!


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## Fod01

We were constrained by fireplace depth also.  Friends have the Jotul, and my parents have a 70's version of the BlackBear, but the local dealer was having trouble getting parts, and no longer sells them.  We almost bought a Quadrafire from him, but were concerned when we found out the dealer sub-contracts the install.  He was also significantly more expensive than other dealers.  We found a VC dealer that installs what he sells, less expensive too.  He came and measured, said it would fit.  His installers were surprised to find the steel fireplace liner.  Its normally their practice to remove firebrick to provide relief behind the inserts, so they attacked my liner with a cutting wheel.  If we ever sell the house, I hope prospective buyers will see the advantage of a woodburning insert, as the fireplace is no longer functional.

BTW - I noticed that you will have a 4' liner installed.  It was strongly suggested that we get the full liner.  It was explained that if a partial liner is installed, creosote can accumulate on the masonry flue just above the metal liner.  When it comes time to service the chimney, the insert will have to be removed to gain access to the masonry for cleaning.  This is more $$... If fully lined, then the metal flue can be serviced with the insert in place... less $$.  Hopefully this wasn't a line of BS, but having experienced a chimney fire at Mom & Dad's house ( the BlackBear with just a pipe stuck into the fireplace ), you tend to take the experts advice.


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## allhandsworking

The dealer gave you good advice.  My cousin is a licenced chimney swep he has showed me proper way to clean chimney.  and I have done my own installs in the past so I dont mind the extra work.  I am probably being penny wise and dollar dumb but you know I never learn!


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## BluHil

We had a Montpelier insert installed in early October and have been using it regularly until recent warmer weather.  I have used wood stoves for 30+ years and recently moved into a home with only a fireplace.  The insert was purchased to improve on the heating (in)efficiency of the fireplace and get rid of the "burned down house" odor that permeated the family room the morning after a fire.  A stainless steel flue liner was installed to the top of the chimney as the original flue was much too large for a good draft.  My thoughts after a few weeks of use:

-The Montpelier insert puts out a fair amount of heat, considering it is installed in a fireplace on an outside wall.  It takes about 30 minutes of use before the blower comes on.  The fans then run continuously until there are only a few embers remaining, then it runs intermittently for some time.  It will go overnight (8 hours) although there isn't much heat or many embers left in the morning---but enough to restart without laying a new fire.  Although the literature says the insert will heat by convection alone, I wouldn't want to rely on it during a power outage---the fans seem to be important in getting any real heat output.
-The fans are noisy at high speed and low speed but are bearable in the mid-range speeds.  This has not been a concern for us.
-I have experienced the problem with the sagging door.  I have realigned the hinges to raise the door as high as possible and it is presently not hanging up on the enamel ledge.  However, I expect this will be a nagging problem---the hinges seem undersized for such a heavy door.
-I find it difficult to start or refuel the fire without getting some smoke out the door, particularly at the hinge side of the opening.  I'm getting better at tossing, poking and slamming the door.  It is important to crack the door for several seconds before opening wide.
-There has been some depositing of smoke on the glass but it has been minimal and easily cleaned with a damp cloth. We do tend to burn hot with the air intake wide open most of the time.
-I have found it impossible to start a fire when the outside temperature is above about 50 degrees F.  Even lighting just newspaper to initiate a draft leads to nothing but smoldering paper and lots of smoke coming out around the door and out of the fan air intakes!  This is probably more of a problem with the chimney---not the stove.  

Overall, I am satisfied with the Montpelier insert---maybe a 4 on a scale of 5.  When it is going, it is wonderful.  It looks great with the large glass door.  It puts out sufficient heat.  It has by far the largest firebox size for the fireplace size we had.  There is no residual smoke odor.  It remains to be seen if the small concerns listed above become real problems.  I guess this is the fun of being an early adopter!


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## begreen

Thanks for the review and welcome to the forum BluHil.


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## allhandsworking

Bluehil I would say your concerns are draft related but there was another poster in this thread that had a problem with the door. I have researched many different stoves and they all seem to have some quark's. I chose the VC because of its feature's and good look also. Thanks for the review How about a picture?


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## allhandsworking

Bluehil did they install a blockout plate at the damper it may help with your draft.  do a search on the subject.


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## btj1031

capivan said:
			
		

> My only complaint is that the front glass has sort of fogged up a bit, and I was going to ask what I could use to clean it.   Regular soap and water?  A bit of black soot and some odd rainbow coloration at the top.   I don't need to be too fussy about that, I bought it for its heat properties, but is there any special cleaning agent I can use or is it a hopeless battle?  Maybe my wood is not as fully seasoned as it needs to be and that is causing excess soot buildup?



I bought a spray cleaner specifically for stove glass at the stove shop.  Works very well, was like $6, one will probably last a bunch of years.


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## BluHil

The installers did put in a plate where the damper was originally.  I expect my problem is that the fireplace is at the end of a one-story room at the end of a two-story house.  While the chimney meets all the code requirements for height and distance from walls, I feel it is probably too sheltered to pull a really good draft.  Once the pipe is heated up, it goes just fine.  My wife will just have to wait until the temperature drops to have fire-warmed feet!

I'll try to post a photo when I get it going again.


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## Theo

Fan power?

Since this insert can only heat my house with the blower on, I'd like to have backup power for winter outages. Can't find a specification for watts/amps in the book or nameplate. Does anyone here know? I suspect that a 100-200W inverter run off a golf cart battery would run it all night. Just need to know what size inverter would be needed.

Thanks!

-Theo


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## RJArthey

Does anyone know who has the inserts in stock as we have been looking in PA area & cannot get one. We have also been given quite a variation on price. Thanks


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## Smacker

We got ours from LanChester Gas. They are located on Rt 41 just south of Rt 30. I guess that is Gap? Maybe Lancaster.
717-442-8794. Very happy with their service and pricing.


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## silvagrafx

*Glass issues with the Vermont Castings Montpelier insert solved!*

This forum is awesome!  I got my answer from you guys (see followup postings) as we learned it comes down to the door opening and the draft bar.  The combination of these two will allow you to find your sweet spot to burn a hot ffire which took care of build up on glass - everyone's situation is different.  We ended up in keeping the draft bar almost all the way to the left, door handle in the 7:00 position (slightly open but securely latched).  This allows the fire to build it's heat then after 20 minutes we lock door handle down to 6:00 position. We close the draft bar (damper) down to halfway only after filling it up before going to bed.

Past posting read:
I had the stove for a month and tried everything from changing wood types (aged Oak, Maple, etc) to wood positioning but we CANNOT have a fire without the glass browning in an hour or so then by morning having it black almost entirely.  My certified installer just left my house as I have reserved payment till this disappointing feature is corrected and his solution is for me to keep primary air control in the open position.  But cleaning the glass each morning while it is totally cooled off with damp rag and ash gets old real quick and can take up to an hour to clean.  We were advised of the a product called Clear Flame by Imperial which helps with the glass cleaning but eats away the rubber gloves you need to wear.  Yikes!

Installer checked installation, parts, etc. and feels that I need to run the fires hotter.  My only reservation on that is we were told by his own laborer who did the installing to NOT run fires hot all the time as it will decrease the life of stove.  We love the looks, the heat it produces just the marketing feature of the "Largest Glass Area for stove in it's class" is not worth it if you can't view anything!

Our past method for burning:
1) Create small fire with kindling, newspaper etc. after nice coals are formed in about ten minutes added one or two logs leaving primary air control in far left position (open).
2) Keep primary air control open for 20 minutes till logs are well on their way then cut down primary air control to mid position for rest of night or till new wood is added.

Question 1:  Does anyone out there experience relatively clear glass fires throughout the night?
Question 2:  Can anyone who owns the Montpelier tell me what I may be doing wrong or could be doing different?

Sincerely,

Tired of Cleaning Glass

P.S. If someone helps me fix this issue I would be glad to take photos and a video and post but presently you can't see the fire ; )   www.FacesofAmerica.com


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## silvagrafx

Angerstein's in tax free Wilmington Delaware has them 302-996-3500.

Silvagrafx


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## Smacker

We have minimum coating on our glass and find that after a hot fire it comes off easily with damp paper towels and ash.
Here is how we have been burning.

Place a piece of kindling across the width of firebox
Lay an Ignite-O packet on it (Product is available at Walmart) 
Place one larger log 4"-6" at the back
Criscross small 1" kindling (8 pieces or so) at diagonals behind andirons and onto larger log
Light edge of packet
Air control full open and door closed but not secure

At this point I don't fully close the door. My handle locks first with the handle at 7 oclock position vs full lock at 6 oclock. The 7 allows more air into the box and gets the fire burning hotter.

Once the initial kinding is just starting to loose its flame I put in 3 larger logs (about 4"). Two on bottom and one on top leaving gaps in between for air to circulate. Also, remember that under the front removable cover, just behind andirons, are three (3) small troughs that allow are to enter the firebox. I have found that keeping this mind when loading the firebox has really helped. If you keep embers in front of them and crack the door to increase the air supply to them the fire will get MUCH hotter MUCH faster.

That's about it. When the 3 larger logs burn down to minimum flame I replace them.

I rarely close the air control to less than full unless the fire appears to big for me to feel safe.

Hope this helps


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## Fod01

My startup fire is top down: 2 larger splits on the bottom, 2 or 3 smaller on top of that, then a healthy handful of kindling and 4  or 5 newspaper knots to finish it. Open the air fully, light the paper, and close the door.  After 1/2 hour or when the wood is well caught, I close the air 1/2 way.  Another 15 minutes or so, and I close the air 3/4 of the way.  Thats when the secondary combustion takes off.  This method works well for me, and practically eliminates the need to open the door for a couple hours.  The worst that has happened is that I needed to add more kindling on top to get the fire really burning.

When its time to reload, rake the hot coals toward the front.  Load the stove again, with a smaller piece in the front on top of the coals.  Open the air wide, and if the wood hasn't caught yet ( because I waited too long to reload) I'll leave the door cracked until it lights.  

As mentioned in earlier posts, the small break-in and 'take the chill off' fires deposited more gunk on my glass than a hot full-load fire.
Cleaning the glass takes no more than 5 minutes.  Wipe first with a damp newspaper to get the grey stuff off, then clean with a ceramic stove/ cooktop cleaner.  Be sure the newspaper/ paper towel is really damp.  The water acts like a lubricant.  

Its supposed to get colder mid-week.  Load it up and see how it goes.

Good Luck.


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## BluHil

I also do not seem to have a lot of problems with smoke buildup on the glass.  Attached is a (poor) photo of the glass after using the insert for six nights since the last cleaning.  I start a fire around 7 PM each night and burn until about 11 PM with the air fully open.  I then load it up with wood and set the air lever about half open when I go to bed.  The wood I am using is not as dry as I would like but burns well after a good bed of coals is formed.  There is a dark section on the hinge side of the glass and along the bottom, but otherwise it's not too bad and doesn't detract from the "open fire" effect.  So far, the glass cleans well enough with a damp cloth and a few minutes of scrubbing once a week.

For those folks that wanted to see a photo, this is the Traditional or Mead surround in Ebony enamel.  Unfortunately, the fireplace opening was 1/4" taller than the cast surround so the steel sheet metal trim ring was also required.

My draft problems seem to have solved themselves and I have had no problems getting a fire started lately, even though the outside temperature has been relatively warm.  I do believe I have a poorly designed chimney that doesn't draw well in certain atmospheric and wind conditions.

I still like this insert and would buy it again.


----------



## allhandsworking

Ok I installed the insert last night.  The block off plate was the hardest part of the job.  Boy am I glad I stuck it out with the wait.  This Montpelier is a nice unit.  My wife loves the looks.  Even though it was 55 last night we had to fire it up.  It used 4 pieces of pallet wood about 1/2" / 18" and some NP knots with one 4 " split of dry Cherry.  Opend air all the way and cracked door just a little.  Fire was going strong after about 10 minutes. 

Closed door and closed air about half way.  I had secondary flames for about a half hour.  While this very sceintific fire stoking was happening my wife was chilling some red white and blues in the freezer.  She places them under the ice maker so they get good cool draft.  In about 15 minutes she pops the cans and pores them into a chilled pint glass.  There was some frost on the glass that prevents me from watching the little bubbles.  

The fan kicked on for about 5 minutes after about 20 minutes of burn.  Then went on again and stayed on  for the duration of the fire.  The fan is very quite at all speeds.  I had no fog on the glass.  VC I am very happy with the stove.  Thank you


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## Fod01

Congratulations and enjoy the stove.  One word of caution..... the smoke from the paint curing process seemed excessive with our stove.  We didn't notice it much during our break-in fires, but once we had full loads burning, we couldn't stay in the same room without the door and windows open.  The smoke finally stopped after 2 or 3 hot fires, and all remains well with the insert.


----------



## allhandsworking

Thanks for the tip. Last night was our first fire so I only had her up to about 225 didn't notice any Oder but I guess when you get her cranking she will start to let off some fumes


----------



## Fod01

Where do you put the thermometer?  We're very limited with real estate.


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## allhandsworking

I put the thermometer just above the ark of the door.  Almost touching the door when closed.  Not sure how accurate of a reading it is getting from that local but it seemed to be the best place for it.


----------



## allhandsworking

I moved the thermostat to the door frame and the readout started to climb. I went from 225 to 300 so I guess we are not getting an accurate read from above the door. I had about 3" of coals and about four med. splits. I have also started to get a black soot buildup on the hinge side of the glass. It may be from cracking the door to get the fire going. Also I have not really loaded the fire box up yet being that it was only the second fire. So i may be able to burn off the soot. I wonder if there is a stove that truly burns with no staining on the glass. I doubt it.


----------



## Fod01

I haven't picked a thermostat up yet because I didn't think there was any place to put it.   I took off from work today, so I'll take a break from raking leaves, and see if my dealer has one. 

I was doing some paint stripping yesterday, and had a couple windows open during the day.  The house was chilly so I started the stove at 5pm, with a final reload at 11pm.  73 degrees in the living room at 6am with a nice amount of coals.  I heard it went down to mid-30's last night.  Still happy.


----------



## allhandsworking

This stove runs really well fully loaded. I started a fire about 730pm. After an hour I had to turn the air intake all the way down because the fire was roaring. I had secondary flames for about 2 hours. The secondary flames flow forward "washing the glass". This really works! I had some black staining on the hinge side that was completely burned off. At the end of that burn cycle there was just about 1" of staining around the frame of the door. I reloaded the stove @ 1130pm. In the morning a put just one piece of Oak in on the coals and left for work. When I got home @ 730 that night I opened the stove to clean it and I still had a bed of coals under the ash so I just added some kindling and more splits for the night! I was surprised that the coals stayed hot all that time. So the 8 hr burn time is true for this insert.


----------



## capivan

Hi, I'm writing again after a few weeks of Montpelier use!  I guess we are happy with it, but I honestly have nothing to compare it against so its hard to know!  We've been burning when its been mild out, so the house gets really toasty and everyone is happy.   Now, though, we are really seeing if its up to snuff!  It's 30 degrees outside and I notice that its not quite filling the house with warmth.   It just doesn't get as hot as a real woodstove... or at least as hot as I remember them getting when I was a kid.  So, here is a stupid question......when the door is closed, you get less heat, even with the blower.  When the door is open its so hot you can't keep your face there for very long....why not keep the door open to let all the heat out?  Is that because the wood would burn through too fast/too much oxygen getting in?

We continually have problems with brown fog, usually in the morning because it burned into the night, getting cooler and fogging/browning up the glass...but we just wipe it with a damp cloth and its just fine.  

Fan noise, is noisy but livable. 

Mostly I think we are content, but I wish it cranked out more heat.  Maybe I am doing something wrong.  The more wood, the more heat?  I leave the air intake fully open to get a fire going strong, then slide it over to almost closed once the fire is really underway.  I don't really understand what overfiring means, but I don't want that to happen.  

Anyway, thought I would attach a picture.


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## allhandsworking

Capi wood stoves probably put out more convective heat but your trading off for the flushed look of the insert.  Did the installer put in a block off plate to prevent heat from escaping up the flue.  In the 80s My dads VC  put out so much heat you could not stand it.  Practice makes perfict though over time you will be able to squez more heat out of the unit.  When your door is open that is radiant heat your burning threw your fuel too fast.  You will get more btu buy closing the door and giving it more air on the intake.  Over firing is when the cast iron glows never let it do that.  2000 sf is a large house for that unit to heat depending on how efficiant your house is insulated.  Im not an expert this just my educated guess


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## capivan

I don't remember the installer saying anything about a block off plate. He did do a full liner all the way to the top of the chimney, he said it was safer and much more efficient.   Is the block off plate something I can purchase and install myself?  I'd like to do everything I can to make sure I get as much heat out as I can.    THank you for writing to me!

I also know the wood is really important....some is well seasoned, and some is still not quite as seasoned as it should be....I'm thinking I should order my next few cords in the spring to give them time to dry out for next winter.   No real way to hurry along the seasoning process, right?  I have the wood in my garage and windows open to ventilate and circulate air.   

On a side note, Man did the market tank today!  UGH UGH .   This insert is also part of my "survivalist" plan if the whole world falls apart.  I say that tongue and cheek, but if you can get oil someday, I always have control over getting wood.   I love this way to heat my house, it feels so cozy  and I dont' feel like a cold grinch like last winter when I felt like money was pouring out of my house from the oil bills and I kept turning the heat down!


----------



## Smacker

We have now had multiple burns but can't quite get the heat I was expecting. I was kinda thinkin' we'd be in shorts and t-shirts but...

Our home (cape cod) is only about 1200sq ft. The fireplace is at one end. The installer ran new stainless flue the full length (15') and capped the top around the flue to eliminate heat loss.

We've got the starting down pat! Little to no smoke from the initial stike of the match until we are ready to load larger wood.

What are some of ways you all are loading to get a hot fire?
The firebox is really to shallow for north to south loading unless you have some shorties.

A couple of question to throw out:

Can the insert be loaded almost to the top? Like up to the heat tubes.
Can I load up to the little andirons in the front?

I know that it will take a while to figure this out and I really appreciate all the wisdom put into these pages!


----------



## allhandsworking

here is a video sorry its so dark http://www.youtube.com/40markava


----------



## begreen

Have you tried backing off the air a bit more once the burn is well established like in the video?


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## allhandsworking

I think the air was about 3/4 closed at this point.  I find that resting 2 splits North south then stacking like a log cabin will produce a hotter fire.  Hot coals settle into the center and burn the wood like a chimney.  I had Blue flames for about an hour and a half with nice jets coming of the secondary tubes.  The air was shut completly.   

Also some people are complaing about dirty glass.  When I make a fire I find that loading the fire box about half way in the manner i mentioned above produces a good hot clean burning fire.  Seasoned wood makes all the difference.   Try a scotch pad with windex to clean the glass.  It works nice.  I am really happy with the stove.

My parents were over for Thanksgiving and my pop wants to burn wood again.  Pop went from burning wood in the 70s then to coal then he installed a gas buner in the fireplace.  My mom thinks he is crazy!


----------



## Smacker

I will try clsoing off the air more. My firewood is too long for North / South unless I get right up to the glass. Can ya do that?
Also, can you actually load on top off the removable piece (air flow cover) and just behind the little andirons?


----------



## allhandsworking

I think you can rest wood on top off the air plate.  I try not to have wood to close to the glass though.  When you have a good bed of hot coals I have closed ther air intake all the way.  But I also have to keep the door craked open to start the fire.  The fire seems to smolder otherwise.


----------



## stevekstevek

A tip and some questions:

First, the Tip, from those who found he fan to be noisy.  Mine was very noisy.  Mainly a buzzing sound (plus what I expected as normal wind sounds when it was on higher speeds);  I opened both of the doors at the bottom, and found that if I put some upwards pressure on the can on the left, it tightened things up, and the buzz almost goes away.  It seems that there's some room for vibrations to be amplified in there, and that made it very loud.

So, I had a little 1/4" rock of mortar left over from the installation, and I shoved it under the left fan housing.  Voila! noises gone!  Now, there's just a very soft buzzing sound (sounds like 60hz AC line hum), and then the sound of the air movement.  Keeping it on a low setting is very inobtrusive.  So, I've been keeping it on a mid-low setting when we're in the room with it, and if I have a big fire and am not near it, I crank it up a bit.

So, the question:  How big is too big for a fire?  I've also gotten the creosote build-up on the door after my first break-in fires and then my 2 real fires.  I cleaned it once, but it came back pretty quick when I did a slow overnight burn.  I read here that the glass wash happens when the fire comes forward and onto the glass.  I've been cutting back the air when I've seen that!  

I know that "overfiring" is when things start to glow.  But even when the stove's not too hot, can a fire be too big and crack the glass or something?


----------



## Fod01

I try not to load on top of the air plate.  No other reason except that it tends to get ash into the andiron area which is a pain to clean out.

Good question about 'how big is too big'.  After reading about how some of the 'big boys' run their stoves, I think I may be damping down the air too early.  Feels like I'm wasting wood, but the stove temp is probably not up to where it should be.  I went out today looking for a thermometer, but 1 stove store was closed, the other was out, and HD/ Lowes doesn't sell them.

Dont worry about the glass.  I think they use a similar material on our ceramic cooktop.  Just dont wipe down hot glass with  a cold wet towel.

Question:  I know the insert has a 30lb fuel capacity, but what is the volume of the firebox?  If you just consider the pit area with out the air plate, we're only looking at 1.5cu'.  Pretty small for a medium size insert.

Question:   Anybody know where the secondary air inlet is?


----------



## Theo

Some success, and more questions-

Well, finally (two months) got dealer to send service for my Montpelier. Seems that the pinion was set wrong in the air plate, jamming both. Easy fix, once he opened it. 

Repair guy was unable to clean black buildup from the glass, and it isn't burning clean. He thought that the glass has a surface coating which had been damaged, and would need replacement. Is this possible? He warned me not to use a soft-scrub pad, just the squirt cleaner they use.

I put a lab-type (disk-on-stick) thermometer in one of the hot-air vents. To my surprise, the air temperature doesn't vary more than a few degrees with the air valve all the way open or closed. This seems to be true whether the fire is flames from fresh wood, or a glowing coal bed. Am I missing something?

The noise problem is indeed easily remedied, as Firestarter and others have said. I didn't even have to loosen screws. Finger pressure at the right place on the fan housing stopped the buzzing completely, and the remaining noise is no issue. I was going to stick something under there to press against the fan, but just pushing it around a little did the trick. Highly recommended!

I originally had a problem with the thermostat not clicking on for one to two hours after getting a fire going. The repair guy confirmed that it had been hanging loose, out of contact. He replaced it with a new one anyway. It *still* took 90 minutes to come on, clicked right off again, and didn't start blowing steadily for two hours. Can anyone here please help? Could something else be loose, keeping heat off the bimetal switch?

Primary air holes: they're supposed to be kept clear, but fill up with ash after just a few pieces of wood have burned. Do people here really let the stove burn out and cool off every day to clear them? I'd hoped to run for several days at a time, especially in very cold weather.

Finally, I don't understand recent posts about stacking wood on the air plate. According to the instruction sheet, the air plate is the slider *outside* the firebox that slides to regulate air. How can wood be piled against it?

Thanks very much - what a helpful and well-informed community!

-Theo


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## stevekstevek

Does anyone know where the combustion air inlet is on this unit?

I'm wondering if I'm leaking air up the chimney (I know the installers sealed the top of the chimney, not sure if they put a blocking plate or insulation around the bottom).  The surrounds (I forgot which kind I got, they're black cast iron) seem cool at the sides.  For those of you who have these, you can see that the sides of the surrounds have a space behind them for most of their height.  If I put a match next to the side of the surround, the flame gets drawn back behind the surround, towards the fireplace opening.

It's not a very strong draft (enough to bend a cigarette lighter flame, but not put it out, but enough that even with a good fire burning, the edge of the surround isn't much warmer than room temp).  If the unit is drawing combustion air behind the surround, that would probably explain it.


----------



## stevekstevek

Theo said:
			
		

> Some success, and more questions-
> 
> I originally had a problem with the thermostat not clicking on for one to two hours after getting a fire going. The repair guy confirmed that it had been hanging loose, out of contact. He replaced it with a new one anyway. It *still* took 90 minutes to come on, clicked right off again, and didn't start blowing steadily for two hours. Can anyone here please help? Could something else be loose, keeping heat off the bimetal switch?



Are you sure you're starting a good hot fire?  Depending on how quickly I can get a good, hot fire in there, the fans can come on anywhere from 20 mins (at fastest), but can take a while if I've done a poor job starting things up quickly (put in too much wood/ not enough kindling, etc).  Also, the sensor is at the front, behind the andiron, so if you're burning towards the back, it might take a bit longer.



			
				Theo said:
			
		

> Some success, and more questions-
> Primary air holes: they're supposed to be kept clear, but fill up with ash after just a few pieces of wood have burned. Do people here really let the stove burn out and cool off every day to clear them? I'd hoped to run for several days at a time, especially in very cold weather.
> 
> Finally, I don't understand recent posts about stacking wood on the air plate. According to the instruction sheet, the air plate is the slider *outside* the firebox that slides to regulate air. How can wood be piled against it?



I think the protrustion in the front is called the "ash lip", and people are talking about the horizontal surface behind/around the andirons.  I haven't even cleaned out the ashes from the stove yet (just got to the point where I need to), but I think so much ash has gotten down into the holes where the andirons sit that I'm thinking after not too long I'll need to pull up some of the firebrick and vacuum when things are totally cool.


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## 4darcy9

I just started using my Montpelier medium insert.I am having trouble getting a fire started without getting A LOT of smoke in my home. I keep the door slightly cracked at 7 o'clock position. It takes a couple of hours before it really starts up and the fan finally starts up but keeps turning on and off. Can I use a duraflame log or firestarter to help so I do not have to give it constant attention for a couple of hours. Once it gets going the fan blows out the air it is really only a bit warm but not hot. It does not give off a lot of heat-only a little. What am I doing wrong or is this as good as it gets? thank you for any advice-I had it installed by a professional fireplace company.


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## stevekstevek

4darcy9 said:
			
		

> I just started using my Montpelier medium insert.I am having trouble getting a fire started without getting A LOT of smoke in my home. I keep the door slightly cracked at 7 o'clock position. It takes a couple of hours before it really starts up and the fan finally starts up but keeps turning on and off. Can I use a duraflame log or firestarter to help so I do not have to give it constant attention for a couple of hours. Once it gets going the fan blows out the air it is really only a bit warm but not hot. It does not give off a lot of heat-only a little. What am I doing wrong or is this as good as it gets? thank you for any advice-I had it installed by a professional fireplace company.



It kinda sounds like you're not getting enough draft.   If I keep the door cracked on mine, I never get any smoke in the house -- the only time that happens is if I open the door too quickly - cracking it open usually clears out any smoke, and if you open it slowly enough, you shouldn't get more than a little puff.

I also get a good amount of heat out of the unit;  yesterday, it wasn't that cold (about 30deg), but all the places the heat could get to from the unit were 74 degrees.  When it's going good, you can't stand in front of the unit for too long.

Tell us what you're doing to start things up, and what kind of wood you're using.  Also, do you have a 1 story flue or 2, and is your chimney on the inside or outside of your house?

Also, another hint:  Keep the fans on low until the unit is nice and hot -- this way you're not sending heat out of the firebox until the firebox is good and hot -- this seems to help get things cooking faster.


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## woody22

firestarter- it sounds like you are happy with your unit.  we are also on long island but are not extremely pleased still,  how far away from your unit do you actually feel heat and do you get it to burn all night?  we are getter alot of heat up close but cant seem to really warm the room, we have played with the blower and with wood and air control things are still not what we really expected


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## stevekstevek

john22 said:
			
		

> firestarter- it sounds like you are happy with your unit.  we are also on long island but are not extremely pleased still,  how far away from your unit do you actually feel heat and do you get it to burn all night?  we are getter alot of heat up close but cant seem to really warm the room, we have played with the blower and with wood and air control things are still not what we really expected



I think you're writing to me (firestarter isn't my handle -- all forum newbies get that, I think).

It gets the room pretty warm, but it does take a while to do that -- I don't think my wood supply is seasoned well enough, so it can take a couple of hours before the unit gets really hot.  Once it does, you get pretty uncomfortably hot sitting on the floor 4' back from the unit.  It's in a living room that's maybe 16x20 or so, and that room, plus the upstairs 3 bedrooms, can stay in the mid 70s on a 20 degree day if you keep the unit cooking well.

If I load it pretty full, let the wood get charred, and then cut the damper down, I still have red coals in the morning.  Actually, it seems that, if you have a good bed of ash, the coals will stay red for a long time.  Ex:  Last night, I had a good fire going, and maybe 3-4" of very hot coals in the box.  Put in 4 decent size splits (which filled it up pretty good), let it run with full air for about 20 mins, and then closed the air about 3/4th of the way.  That was around 9PM.  At 7AM, I came down, and didn't see much red, but there was a pile of ash still shaped like a log.  Poke around with the poker, and the ashed go to the bottom, and charcoal comes to the top, with a bunch of red stuff still in there.  Let that sit for 15 minutes or so with the air open, and the coals start cooking.  After that, I threw 2 "Splinters" (1" or so splits), on the bottom, and a couple of larger splits above that, and there was a fire in another 10 minutes.  Left it like that and went to work.  I expect I might still have some hot coals tonight at 8:30PM when I get home, but only because I have a weekends' worth of ash still in there.


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## Fod01

John - I was a little disappointed also until the past few weeks.  Someone on this board (maybe this thread?) suggested that we're not letting the stove heat up enough before damping down the primary air.  I started to let the stove cook until the firebox was full of flame...not pretty fireplace flame, but intense, 'lets make some horseshoes' flame for the width of the firebox.  Its pretty cool to watch it reach that point.  Only then will I close the primary 1/2 way, 3/4 5 minutes after that, then full close if the fire can maintain the secondary burn.... I get good heat, and the glass gets very little build up.  My blower control is at 3 o'clock.

I treat the overnight burns the same way, just pack the wood closer together. Still, you've got to let it get cranking first!

Maybe I'll borrow my daughters camera and post a couple pics.

Good luck.


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## woody22

yeah everything both of you say is about the same for us.  Our room is also 16x20 with large openings to kitchen and to the dining room and front room of our house.  Yes we also have coals in the morning and restarting a fire is never a problem but i feel as if i am starting all over at that point to get the room warm again. Forget the rest of the house that we never feel anything in.  We keep playing with it and maybe just because we are new too this there is a large learning curve.  I am trying to get the stove really hot first and really going before i also put it down I have also found 3/4 works best.  I also have may blower anywhere between 1 to 3 o'clock.    I will continue to try and get it really going.  Right now my expectations of the heat i would be getting are not there.  I really thought the hardest thing i would have to think about was how much wood i wanted to put in at a time.


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## allhandsworking

Just for everyones info.     I keep a thermostate on the arch of my door.  My wood isnt the best seasoned.  I avarage about 300 350 temp.  air 3/4 closed.  I removed the surround and placed the thermostate on the cast iron that is at the bass of the flue and the temp reading went up aout a 100 -150 degrees to about 450 500 degrees.  so I estamte that at 300 you are really at aout 450-500 degrees.


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## diodeduster

thanks for all the info as i really love my stove and getting the same kind of readings with the thermometer on the arch of the door without a blockoff plate installed.


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## High Country

Newbie here.  Not to wood burning, but the forum itself.  I'm glad I found it because we have been having some problems with our Montpelier since we had it installed about a month ago.

I have not really used wood heat since I heated an entire house with a Vermont Castings Defiant many years ago.  I was very happy with that stove so when we decided to put an insert in our fireplace VC was my first choice.  The Montpelier seemed to have everything we wanted, a nice clean look, not plain but not frilly, good fit for our firebox, and a large window since my wife really likes to see the fire.  Our fireplace has an arched opening so we had a simple custom surround made which really makes the installation look great.

Our problems seem to be similar to some others I've read here.  The door does scrape the tray just when it's about 4 inches from being closed.  It did not do that at first so I think there may be some sag at the hinges or perhaps some distortion from the stove settling in.  I can feel a small burr at the bottom of the door that might be from a mold joint that wasn't ground properly which could possibly be filed down and repainted.

The blower is noisier than we would like, but I think we can live with it.  After reading a previous post here I might try to adjust it to make it a bit quieter.

Our door soots up pretty badly with every fire and so we have been cleaning it daily......real PITA.  Sometimes it will wipe off with a damp paper towel and other times it really takes some elbow grease with a soft abrasive sponge.

But the big problem we are having is with the draft.  Our insert simply does not draw properly and I'm not sure what to do about it.  I'm pretty certain it is in the flue configuration, but I can't be sure.  When I open the door smoke doesn't just come into the room it BOILS into the room.   When the fire is going good and the door is closed tightly the flames seem pretty lazy even with the damper wide open.   I think the window soots up because the fire doesn't get hot enough. 

The smoke problem is unacceptable and the dealer is not getting paid for the installation until it is solved.

My theory is the flue liner they squeezed down to get through the fireplace damper has actually been crimped in rather than just reformed which is restricting the airflow.  I can feel two pretty good crimps in it, but the dealer/installer says he doesn't think thats the problem.  I can't see how it can't be a problem.  

In addition, the flue liner does not exit the insert "straight" out.  It exits at a lateral angle to the left as seen from the front of the insert, which doesn't seem right to me.  I think that the flue liner should be eliminated as the problem before going any further and acting as if there is a problem with the insert itself, but I guess I'll see what the installer has to say.

The installer has fiddled with a few times, unsuccessfully, most recently yesterday.  He adjusted the plate above the perforated tubes at the top of the firebox and said he had been told that solved 95% of the problems such as we have experienced.  WRONGO!  It made things MUCH worse.  So I'll be talking with them again as soon as they open again after the holiday.

Do any of you have any thoughts?

All in all, I think we're going to like the Montpelier once we get the bugs worked out.  But I won't hesitate to have it removed if it keeps smoking up the house.


----------



## Rudyjr

Stevekstevek,Did your installation include a block off plate? These have eliminated many problems similar to what you have. Do search on block off plates, the results are hard to dispute.


----------



## diodeduster

i have a good draft on my insert which has a slight ebow connected to the 6" ss liner. i would say that your problem would definetly be the kinks in your liner from the installer not cutting out or knocking out your old damper plate.


----------



## stevekstevek

Rudyjr said:
			
		

> Stevekstevek,Did your installation include a block off plate? These have eliminated many problems similar to what you have. Do search on block off plates, the results are hard to dispute.



I don't know actually -- I didn't ask, and was watching the guy on the roof, who did seal the liner in with mortar, not the guy connecting the stove to the pipe in the fireplace.  I'm guessing that to find out now will be a pretty dirty endeavor involving pulling the stove out, and sticking half of my body into the firebox to disconnect/reconnect the stove pipe in order to get it out/in.

That's why I was wondering whether the combustion air comes through there or not -- it would explain where that air is going..  it seems to make sense that it would come from there -- if it came from the top or bottom, the draft would change depending on how high you had the blower going..


----------



## High Country

After making my initial post yesterday I did some adjusting on my own.  The plate at the top of the stove that is what I believe the installer "adjusted" is actually quite loose.  I took a candle and moved the plate slightly in different directions watching what the draft did in various places around it.  I adjusted it so there was pretty good flow at the front of the stove just inside the door and later we fired up the stove.  It burned very well and the door did not soot up much at all, only slightly toward the hinge side.  There is still some smoke coming into the room when the door is open, so there is still some problem with the draft, but not nearly what it was previously.  Here's a picture from a couple of hours burn time after my adjustment.


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## Theo

Happy New Year, all - I hope you're keeping warm and comfortable!



			
				High Country said:
			
		

> After making my initial post yesterday I did some adjusting on my own.  The plate at the top of the stove that is what I believe the installer "adjusted" is actually quite loose. ...



High Country - can you please help me find this plate, perhaps via the parts diagram in the manual? If there's anything else to adjust, I'd like to try - this Montpelier simply isn't working for me, and the dealer is no help at all.

Re Stevekstevek's point about where combustion air comes from - I'm curious, too. Sometimes when I open the door, smoke comes out the hot-air vents on top. So the secondary (top tube) air presumably comes from there. 

People have suggested getting the stove hot before turning on the blower. Unless the blower setting affects secondary air flow (and I don't see that in flame appearance), I don't get how that could affect firebox temperature. The box is surrounded by firebrick bottom, sides and top (via the floating baffle above the secondary air tubes). So firebox temp shouldn't be affected by cooling the iron plate above the top baffle. Or am I missing something? Hard to figure it all out from the tiny parts diagram.

I had to run my insert for two months with the secondary air slider almost closed, since the insert was installed broken or defective and service was a challenge. I'm wondering if I can't get much heat because the top iron plate could be coated with a lot of creosote. Anybody see anything like that? Not much chance of getting the dealer to take it apart for a look, so I might have to try it myself.

-Theo


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## High Country

Theo,

According to the exploded view in the owners manual, it's the Baffle, #16.  I found that it apparently just sits on the Secondary Air Tubes, #14 & 15.  I moved it back from the front approximately 1/2".  Right now, before we start another fire for the evening, I'm going to move it another 1/4" or so and see if that improves or or is detrimental to what we had yesterday.

*Edit:* Well, my theory is busted.  I went up to fine tune the baffle and discovered that, since it was loose, it did not stay where I had initially placed it yesterday.  It had moved toward the back of the the insert and left quite a bit larger gap toward the front than I had left.  I have a fire going now and we'll see how it goes tonight.


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## Theo

High Country said:
			
		

> ... I went up to fine tune the baffle and discovered that, since it was loose, it did not stay where I had initially placed it yesterday.  It had moved toward the back of the the insert and left quite a bit larger gap toward the front than I had left.  I have a fire going now and we'll see how it goes tonight.



Thanks for the suggestion. Didn't realize that the baffle is just floating there. Mine was all the way back, which has to be wrong - surprised they didn't put some kind of stop someplace. I moved it forward so hot air washes the whole iron top, front and back, on the way to the flue. This ought to transfer heat more effectively. Unfortunately, it didn't help at all. Tried a few positions (and mine seems to stay put), but no real difference.

So I took it all the way out. This requires removing the front two secondary air tubes, which in turn seems to require removing both set screws *and* cotter pins - sloppy design, really. One of the tubes is warped, which made it harder. Anyway, there was about 1/16" of creosote on the top plate, which I scraped off. Reassembled the whole thing, and no difference. I get more heat using the insert as a fireplace than with the door closed and fan on. Still something wrong; hope someone here finds the answer!

I've gone through my two cords of really dry wood from having to run with the door cracked while awaiting service. Now burning wood 1-3 years old, but not so dry - stored under tarps; must have been some condensation. The old wood stove I replaced with the Montpelier (big mistake) could easily burn completely green hardwood, once a bed of coals was in place, with only slightly diminished heat output. (In fact, since it wasn't a tight-box design, I used to load it with wettish wood for a longer overnight burn.) The Montpelier can't seem to handle damp wood at all, at any secondary air setting, unless the door is opened slightly. 

Still can't get hot enough to burn more than the middle of the glass clean. Still hoping for more insight before mid-winter...

Theo


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## High Country

I went to bed last night thinking I'm taking the thing out!  I had a huge amount of smoke boil into the room when I opened the Montpelier to add a final piece of wood for the evening.  I woke up this morning a little less convinced, but I still don't know for certain what I'm going to do.  

Something has to change however.  Either the smoking problem gets fixed or the Montpelier goes.


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## Theo

Not really making progress getting this Montpelier to heat the house, but noticing some things that might be helpful to someone else.

1. Position of the top baffle doesn't seem to matter. I tried it in various positions from all the way back to all the way forward, and it didn't seem to affect blower air temperature at all. BTW, I wouldn't remove it - the iron "roof" might be damaged, and it would only make the stove less efficient by allowing hot air to reach the flue w/o moving over the top plate.

2. Unlike a fireplace, my insert doesn't seem to be able to extract heat from a deep bed of furiously glowing coals, only actual flame. Have others done better with this?

3. I assumed that the installers had left the insert in ready-to-use condition. As others here have found, the door needed to be re-hung and tightened. A week or so after I started using it, I did the dollar-bill test, and tightened to spec. I recently re-set the door latch to close as tightly as possible, and it improved things slightly. I suspect that my door seal was damaged by running loose (it's stained with creosote), and will have to be replaced if I don't dump the unit completely. 

4. I stuck a thermometer between the stove and the surround, into the space above the stove. If I've been running the insert for a while with the fan on low and turn it to high, the space above the stove heats up by about 20F in just a few seconds. Air leak someplace? I also note some warm spots on the chimney inside the house. The liner runs all the way up, so maybe they didn't put in a baffle plate or something.

5. Wood quality issues: I unfortunately ran through two cords of great wood in two months having to run with the door cracked open because the dealer wouldn't fix the broken air valve. Except for a two-week emergency supply of best dry oak, I'm now mostly burning under-seasoned, slightly punky over-aged or seasoned but dampened wood. However... I just checked my neighbor's DutchWest insert (installed same time by same people); he's burning wood from a pile of the seasoned but damp oak that we bought together. With his air valve open and blower all the way on, I measured 225F with a thermocouple gauge. Turning the blower down a little drove the temperature past 250F immediately; I didn't finish the test because I couldn't stay that close to the stove!

By comparison, the only time I could get mine to "run away" - keeping the blower down and the damper open for a couple of hours - some of the wood in there was so wet that it was dripping. (With blower at about 75%, it gave 240F for a few minutes, then dropped off.) So that's clearly not the issue. Just don't know why, even with my best wood, I can't get the thing to stay hot.

6. Thermoswitch: they built it into the blower unit where it's easy to assemble, but not really in the right place for use. I floated my thermocouple in the middle of one of the ducts - a couple of inches back from the face, and halfway between top and bottom plates - and have seen the convecting air get up to 320F before the blower kicked on. And it often turns off while the stove is burning furiously. Something they might reconsider in the next design?

Anyway, I appreciate this forum, and am still hoping for a fix. Otherwise, it's going to get very sticky with the dealer. Now burning at least 120 pounds of wood a day to keep an under-1500 s.f. house at about 55F, and it's just starting to get really cold out.

Stay warm-

Theo


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## BluHil

We've been using our Montpelier since early October.  We only burn evenings and we aren't around much on weekends.  We have used about 1/2 cord of wood so far.  The stove is at the end of a large (~1600 square feet) room that is open to the rest of the house as well.  The fireplace and chimney are external to the house---not the optimum arrangement for maximum heating.  Needless to say, it usually operates with the air handle wide open.  It is difficult to address the questions about heat output as I never really expected the insert to heat the room---it's just too big (the room that is.)  It will definitely scorch your butt if you stand within a few feet of it too long!  After a few hours, it warms up the end of the family room quite well, but I don't think I'll know the true effects until spring arrives and I tally up the fuel oil usage.  Luckily, we avoided any extended power outage in December's ice storm that devastated parts of the Northeast because I don't think this insert will put out much heat without the fans.

I find that the insert is sensitive to draft, which may explain some of the problems people are experiencing.  As I have described on this forum earlier, sometimes when starting from a cold condition, the smoke just flows out around the tightly latched door and out of the air intakes at the bottom.  I can usually foretell that this will occur because I can feel a cold downdraft when I open the door.  This seems to be a function of weather conditions as well.  Once a positive draft is established, it goes great and as long as there is a little warmth in the stove or chimney, there are no starting problems.  I do get a little smoke out the door when recharging if I'm not quick or if the fire isn't completely down to coals.  Cracking the door for a few seconds and then opening it slowly are absolutely key to minimizing smoke in the room!  Even with the door open, I don't think I could make this stove "run away" like my old Intrepid, which would glow orange if I left the damper open too much.

I also discovered that small pieces of wood are far superior to large ones.  I initially was stuffing about three large splits in at a time.  This resulted in smokey, low heat fires.  Now I resplit most of the wood before I bring it inside (a unexpected chore) and get five or six pieces in.  This has greatly improved the output and I get that slow motion, low color, swirling flame that seems to indicate efficient combustion.  I no longer have to operate with the door ajar, except for a few minutes when starting a fire.  Even with the smaller pieces, if I load at 11 PM and go to bed, there are enough coals at 7 AM to restart the fire without paper---a little stirring and a few minutes with the door cracked and there is a glowing pile.

I also have been curious as to where the combustion air enters the stove.  From what I can see, it looks like it enters through the perforated cutouts in the sheet metal wrapper on the sides near where the fan cord exits.  This appears to be where the optional external combustion air kits attach.  The exploded view in the manual seems to show an internal channel that feeds air up to the top of the stove.  I have done a crude smoke test and can see that it draws air in around the surround.  I guess this also proves that I have a good seal to the chimney, either at the damper plate, the cap or both!

While I still curse the insert when the family room is filling with smoke on a "bad draft" day, I don't consider that a flaw with the stove and am still happy with the Montpelier and would purchase it again.


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## Fod01

Hey BluHil.. thought I'd chime in with my mid-season report as well.  

Changed my fire-starting technique from top-down, to modified 'log cabin' style.  I use oconnors method https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31393/
Just modified it to fit the firebox by using 2 splits in parallel instead of the inverted-V shape.  Seems to heat up the firebox much faster.

Was originally burning larger pieces of cordwood that I purchased this year.  Now I also re-split most pieces at least once.  Big difference in the heat output, and the smaller pieces make it easier to pack the small firebox.

Finally bought a thermometer which I stick in the right-side hot air outlet.  With the blower off, I find it hard to get the unit over 300 or so, but now I won't turn the blower on until it reaches that temp.  
I also run the blower slower in the 6 o'clock rather than 3 o'clock position.  I'd be interested to hear if any of the other owners can report higher temps with the thermometer in that position.

I'm definitely burning hotter, and am not a slave to glass cleaning anymore.  We still get buildup down by the andirons, and a bit on the hinge side which is easily removed with the Rutland cleaner we use.  Tried the 'incense test' to check for leaks, but did not find any.  Perhaps the andirons just block some radiant heat from cleaning the bottom of the glass. 

We did not experience any defects with the unit, and are satisfied with its quality.  I would have liked a unit with a larger firebox, but we were limited due to the size of the existing fireplace.  Also, my wife did not want a unit that protruded out in to the room.

Would we purchase again?  Probably.  It will be interesting to see what our oil useage looks like after the season is over.


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## High Country

Well, the fight starts tomorrow.  We've decided we cannot tolerate the smoke situation with the Montpelier and are calling the company from which we purchased it to take it out and refund our money.  It may be an uphill battle because we actually paid for the insert in August when we ordered it.  I have not, however, paid for the installation which took place mid December.

I am really sorry and upset that this is happening.  I bought the Montpelier specifically because of my previous good experience (many years ago) with Vermont Castings.  How much of my problem is due to poor design I really can't say, and the seller/installer has been less than stellar service wise.  But at any rate the product is not performing as it should and we're going to have it removed.


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## Rudyjr

There are very similar complaints (black glass, lack of heat etc) as these in the Jotul c450 thread that have been ongoing. Many of these issues have been resolved by people going back and installing a block off plate with their inserts. One member was ready to remove his insert and was fed up but installed a block off as a last resort. He is now satisfied with the performance of his stove. Most installers do not do this, too time consuming I suspect. I would not have done it because it is not listed in the Jotul manual unless you do a direct connect. I did it because of the many people on this forum who said it was a good idea to do so. I think this one very inexpensive item will resolve a host of problems.


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## catslr

Hey everyone. I ordered a Montpelier insert in October and it was finally installed two weeks ago. After reading through this thread it appears I am very lucky; I have no leaks and I am very warm. I never have any problems with smoke coming into the house which I think has to do with the fact that I have a 30 ft chimney. The only questions I have are: how much secondary burn should I see and how much wood are you all using? After seeing videos on youtube,  I assumed that once a bed of coals was established, the air tubes on top would look like propane burners in a gas grill. At times I can tell that some of the holes are burning, but this is a rare occasion. Am I not letting the fire heat up enough before I choke it down? 

I have also almost gone through a 1/3 of a cord of seasoned red maple in 2 weeks. Is this about the burn rate you all are experiencing? Look forward to hearing from you all


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## Oilsaver

Excuse the writing. The powers of the internet are just incredible.  I live in the NE and was affected by the great ice storm of 08, 12 days without power (thank goodness for the generator). In the wake of higher fuel prices in the spring I foresaw a tough 08-09 winter heating bill, and had to think about alternatives. I priced out stoves in June and after growing up with a VC Defiant stove that was just a great stove it was on the top of my list as the manufacturer. I picked the Montpelier after reading that catalytic burners needed to be replaced on other stoves after a few years, existing space requirements, and larger viewing window. Price was not the factor but the name kept me with the purchase. I ordered it in June had it installed by the dealer in August. I also installed a 6” stainless liner up the chimney with a cap, a Meade surround kit, and the damper was removed with a blocking plate installed. I had been using the open fireplace for supplement heat last year with a hearth heatilator but I just burned through the wood and lost more room heat than I was creating. I was happy with the overall installation by the reputable area fireplace stove dealer. I no sooner had the stove installed and found out that VC was owned by the Canadian Teachers assoc, then VC filed for bankruptcy and been bought out by a company in ky. I completed my pre burnins  with no issues. The cold came early and I started using the stove.  On one warm day near thanksgiving I cleaned out the stove from ash and I found the front top ceramic plate cracked.  I am unsure if it was a ceramic defect or ash had got under the plate and stressed it. I contacted the dealer and have not heard back I do not think they are a direct VC dealer anymore. I tried to contact Monessen in KY to no avail last month.  
As for this post, I just found it today and read through most of them. These are my observations
Reading the instructions the dark window is creosote caused by burning unseasoned wood at a low temp. It also said not to use abrasives due to a coating on the glass. I have used a dealer sold spray to clean the glass when cold with no issue, but I don’t make a big deal about the stain it burns off mostly.
 I also don’t think I’m getting the high temp from the stove I expected. I am burning hardwoods that I purchased in the spring before the stove arrived.  I have a thermometer at the top of the stove where the exhaust exits the stove (45 degree elbow to the stainless liner). I control the damper to the temp of the thermometer, but it rarely gets to the 400 degree range. Mostly 250-300 range. I will be using more seasoned wood next year.
I bought this as a known supplement but I want to use it to its max. I have tried many experiments
I removed the decorative Meade surround because I thought I was losing a lot of usable heat from above the stove. I am now practicing with a metal deflector above the stove to redirect that heat. I put the surround kit on when visitors are around
I have placed fireplace brick into the open space cavity around the stove inside the fireplace opening, hoping to capture and retain more heat from around the stove.
 I have also been trying to burn large dense wood versus the small stuff. But after reading today, I need to rethink that.  I would have thought I would have got a longer burn time with large dense wood, but I notice when I do fill the stove for the night I am cooling it down significantly with room stacked wood and it takes time to reheat. I have found that after I clean out sacrificial hot ashes, the stove runs better with a flame from a few pieces of wood rather than stoked full on a pile of ashes. I am going to try previous note of resplitting and stoking differently
I am concerned with spare parts of my less than 1 year old stove !! 
Overall I have saved a lot on my oil bill even with the lower cost of oil. Would I buy another VC unsure, I might have looked at the Jotul a little more


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## gmoney_2010

Has anybody chose the Georgian surround? If so could you post pic's and say if you like it?
Also could you guys say what you paid for the unit itself and the installation cost?
This insert wouldnt be used as the primary heat source but to help along our heat pumps that struggle a little in midwest winters and never really give you that warm feeling. It would be in the living room which is basically open to the rest of the first floor and the two story foyer and second story hall. Overall about 2,500 of space. The current fireplace isnt a masonry one, just a "pre-fab" wood fireplace unit that is pretty but useless. It has a one to two foot tile surround and about a two foot tile hearth elevated about 1 foot off the floor. We will be replaceing the tile with some sort of stone or tile etc. Our house is 15years old the fireplace is on an external north faceing wall with wood siding around the chimney that goes to top of second floor. Do you think we could install this ourselves or should we have it pro installed. We mainly like this insert cause of the looks and its flush fit which is hard to find. The height and width demintions are not that big of a deal because with the largest surround you can get from VC( the georgian) we will still most likely have to get the extra covering plates. So it sounds like this can be a very picky stove to use and this will be our first so do you have any other suggestions? I have looked at many on the web and so far this is the only one i Really like the look of.
Thanks in advance!


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## canboy

Reply to gmoney_2010:

My dealer in Canada had an Ebony Georgian surround in the showroom.  It looked very nice - classy.  It made the fireplace look short and wide compared to the relatively square shape with my Caprice surround, which I also like.  Like you, I think this is one of the nicest looking inserts around.  With the exception of some of the European models, the rest all look like a woodstove sticking out of a fireplace.

I use a heat pump and electric furnace as backup.  My house is a 1500sqft bungalow, open concept, with 16' clerestory in the main living area.  I am supplementing my main heating system with the Montpelier.  My fireplace is on an external wall, very centrally located.  This all sounds quite similar to your situation except your house is quite a bit larger.

Last night temperatures were -10F and today 3F.  I filled the firebox before going to bed last night.  It produced enough heat to keep things comfortable for sleeping but by morning there wasn't much more than embers left for heat.  The furnace came on at 6:00am to bring the temperature up to something more suitable for day time.  Once I got the fire going again, it barely maintained the temperature in the house for the rest of the day.  At 3F it takes a pretty sizable fire to maintain comfort.  Hard wood is definitely an advantage over softwood in terms of heat.

If your worst temperatures are anything like mine, I think you will be hard pressed to maintain temperatures in that size of house with the Montpelier.  Even with a larger stove, you would have to go thru a lot of wood to maintain normal temperatures.  A lot of your heat is going to sit at the top of your 2 story foyer as it does in my clerestory ceiling.  Then the main floor area remains a little cool and drafty.  Hopefully you have a good, cheap supply of hardwood to heat your house - because you will need a lot.

I don't think that the issues you are seeing in this website on the Montpelier are necessarily any different than what you can expect from any insert.  Noisy fans are an issue for me.  Every stove fan is noisy from my experience.  The Montpelier's fan is no exception - noise can be reduced by playing with the mounting.  If you use a wood stove instead of an insert then no fan is required.  I have problems with draft but my chimney is "under specification" - only 13.5 feet high.  Right now I open a window when loading the fire to provide air supply to improve the draft.  With a two story chimney, your draft should be better.  Yes there is soot on the hinge side of the glass and in front of the andirons.  If I have a really hot fire some of it disappears.  I think there are some design issues here - not enough air coming out of the 3rd primary air supply hole on that side of the stove.  I have never seen a wood stove that is perfectly clean and some that were much worse than the Montpelier.

I would not install this stove myself unless you REALLY know what you are doing.  A wood stove insert and it's chimney involve very serious heat and good knowledge of the clearances required, appropriate materials, fastening techniques etc. is absolutely required.  One small error could result in a disaster that your insurance company could walk away from and your family might not. 

The rolling fire in the Montpelier is absolutely wonderful to watch.  I am still happy with this stove.  I think that over time, I can overcome, or at least make improvements on most of the issues.

Now if your real objective is to easily supplement your heat pump.  I suggest you look at a pellet stove.  I use one in my basement family room.  It produces tons of reliable heat, is very easy to light (anyone in the family can do it) and very easy to feed (empty a 40lb bag of pellets into the hopper).  It runs up to 30 hours on one bag (about $7).  Turn the dial if you want more heat (almost instantly) or turn it down if you want less.  Back draft is not a likely issue as the smoke is driven out by fan.  Soot on the glass occurs but you can mostly clean it out with a kleenex when the fire is out.  I installed my pellet stove myself and had it inspected by a professional.  While it is a serious heater, the temperatures being exhausted are only slightly hotter than a dryer vent, so a little more room for error.

Now, with a pellet stove you have more fans running and the fire is far from relaxing as the flame is quite small and frantic.  

So, there are some choices to make.  Hope that helps.  Good luck.


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## No More Cold

Hi all -

New to the forum but felt obligated to register and post after gathering all the great info I did here.  I too was struck my mother nature during the ice storm in Northern Central MA of 2008.  7 days without power (although felt longer staying with the inlaws and their powerless warm woodstove heated house).   Decided to put in an insert as I really didn't have a good spot for a stove.   I read this site up and down and finally decided that despite the possible bankruptcy issues (who isn't going bankrupt these days??) that the VC Montpelier was the way to go.  After going through some wood trip issues on the fireplace we got it installed yesterday.  Went through the break-ins and away we went with what i'd like to call a medium fire.   Turned the oil heat down to 60 and saw I could keep the bottom floor of our 1700 sq. foot colonial at a cozy 68.   Very promising!   The fan came on after about an hour of the firebox warming up and pumped out air between 180-230 degrees (no idea if thats normal or not).    

Some observations:

- The posts on adjusting the fan for noise worked like a charm.  Theres a VERY dull hum coming from the fan which is not even noticable with the TV on (Fireplace is in the living room)
- I have no idea what the temperature of the box is but I've seen up to 230 degree air coming out the blower - can anyone comment on what I should aim for here?
- No clue what my burn time is so far - put 2-3 splits (very dry - father in law is a fanatic wood dryer) in when I went to be last night - about 11.  Closed it down and the house was cool in the morning - down to about 60 (where the oil thermostat is set).    There was much more room to put in more wood sto not sure if that would've helped my burntime at all.
- No problems with the hinge so far - door opens and closes very nicely
- Wet newspaper dipped in ash followed up by a soft tissue rub on the glass makes it as clean as when it was delivered.  Most everything that accumulates on the glass at the beginning of the burn will burn right off once the temperature in the box gets up to a good range

Overall I'm extremely happy with the unit.  I'd love to get feedback on what is normal for the air blowing out and if I can increase this at all.   Anything I can do to push more air upstairs would be best and I'd love to wake up to a 65 degree house with no oil used rather then 60 with some oil used.

Thanks to all for all the help on this forum in making my purchase - glad to be apart of the Hearth network!


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## gmoney_2010

Congrats on your insert! What surround did you choose? If you don't mind what were the costs? And will you post some pictures please, especially if it is the Georgian surround..
Thanks


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## No More Cold

To be honest I'm not sure what the surround is - its not plain - is decorative (has a flower and leaf decoration in both top corners).  I love it though - looks great against the brick.   I paid about 3800 with installation (including a full liner all the way up the chimeny - pays for itself in cleaning costs in my opinion).   I have some trim work to do on the bricks and I'm still waiting for a plate to cover about an inch and 1/2 above the surround - as soon as I have all that I'll definitely post some pics!


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## gmoney_2010

Sweet! That is the mead surround I believe... It looks great too..


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## High Country

OK, My Montpelier is history.  The dealer came and removed it yesterday.  There wasn't any fight, they are supposedly crediting my CC for the full amount of the insert and the installation.  Today I replaced the firebrick that was removed to run the power to the insert and I'm having my original fireplace doors (that were modified to make the surround) rebuilt.  We should be back to original in about a week.

It turns out that about 6 feet up from the insert there was a substantial kink in the SS flue liner that they installed.  After they removed it they told me that about it and said that they would replace the insert and flue if we wanted to.  Had they done that six weeks ago when we first started dealing with this thing I might have considered it, but I put up with a smokey house for too long.  It's too bad that they weren't a little more prompt with their service or they wouldn't have lost the sale.


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## No More Cold

I'm sorry to hear about your problems!  I'm confident it was the kink and not the actual Montpelier.  Had my downstairs cranking at 74 on Super bowl Sunday (felt like Arizona in here - until they lost) and even had it up to 70 degrees upstairs.   I'm extremely satisified with my Montpelier and would recommend it to anyone and everyone!


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## allhandsworking

I just scored free wood! A tree that has been down for two years. It is obvious that it is more seasoned than the wood that I have. I can start the fire with about 10 sheets of news paper no kindling. Wood burns much hotter and not one bit of staining on my glass. The insert has been operating satisfactory but this demonstrates the importance of good quality seasoned wood! oh yeah its Maple.


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## fred1

I purchased my insert at Angersteins in De. I installed the unit myself,including a full ss liner. WE did our 4 break-in fires,after that we ran the stove regular for about 1 week. When the stove cooled the door glass cracked along the bottom clips that hold the glass in place. The dealer got me a new glass and gasket, when I went to install it I found that 2 of the screws that hold the clip for the glass where cross threaded. As soon as I tried to remove them the screws snapped off flush with the door, I had to drill and easy-out the screws and re-tap the door so I would be able to use the stove. They have ordered me a new door. In the mean time we had used the insert for around 6 weeks with no trouble at all, when the stove was cooling one day so I could clean it out, the glass cracked again almost in the same spot as the last one did. I was in the room when I heard it crack, the door was closed and latched and I haven't put any wood in for at least 8-10 hours. Now I am waiting for a new door and glass to come in. I believe the door must be racked. Angersteins has been great about the problems I have had. When the unit was running it put out good heat ( with the blower on and no noise issues ) I hope the new door solves the glass problems, other than that and as long as I get this door - glass issue solved I am happy with its performance of this product.


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## allhandsworking

Could have been a bure in the cast check the stove side also?  Sounds like u know what your doing!


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## jdlimabean

Hi -- I have a question about the rheostat... I just got a new V.C. Montpelier insert and absolutely love it. It is producing a lot of heat and burning beautifully. The only thing I don't like is the sound of the rheostat humming. It isn't loud, by any means, and it isn't buzzing the way some people had trouble with until they fixed the vibration of the housing. But the constant electric hum sounds like a fluorescent light -- a sound that, though it's low, bothers me. The blowing of the fan itself is fine, almost inaudible on low. What I wish is that the insert had a plain on-off fan switch, one that turned the fan on & off manually without the rheostat that hums. Here's my question: Does anyone know whether the rheostat (assuming the rheostat is the thing that makes the fan function automatically, and makes the low hum) could be disconnected somehow, turning it into a manually operated fan? If the rheostat could be disabled, would that in turn affect the fan's variable speed, or not? I see no particular benefit to having the fan turn on and off by itself, and if I could do it manually and get rid of the "fluorescent hum" I would be very happy. If that's not possible, I will get used to the hum, and still love the stove. It's great! 
By the way, after reading others' comments about the Montpelier's weak door hinges, right from the start I put two bricks one on top of the other on the right side of the hearth, making a door-rest, thus taking the weight of the door off the hinges whenever it's open. Thanks for this forum!


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## canboy

Response to jdlimabean:

You could replace the variable speed control with a switch.  But then it would always run on high which would be worse than what you have now.

The hum you hear has nothing to do with the variable speed or rheostat.  The problem is that a too large fan has been placed in a too flimsy housing, anchored two flimsy screw mounts.  This results in a vibrating fan housing and vibrating fan resting on the sheet metal floor.

You can easily remove the fan and test it yourself.  When you hold the fan housing in your hands and it is not resting on the metal, there is no audible electrical hum at any speed.  One can only hope that VC will take the time to redesign the fan housing in the near future and send a free upgrade to the early adopters.

In the interim, you can push and prod the fan into quieter positions as almost everyone is having to do.  I have also added some non combustible damping material between the metal floor and the fan to reduce the vibration noise.

I am also really enjoying my Montpelier despite its minor flaws.  The view of the fire is totally engaging and the cleanliness of the burn is incredible.  The exhaust out my chimney is totally invisible contrary to what I see coming out of some of my neighbour's chimneys.


----------



## jdlimabean

Hi Canboy -- Thanks for answering. I'm not at all experience in mechanical things, unfortunately, and would have no idea how to go about removing the fan, or experimentally moving it around to different positions as people have described. I assume this would have to be done while the stove was hot, since otherwise the fan wouldn't go on at all. (??)The housing is pretty firmly held in place as it is now, not much "wiggle." . I can cause it to buzz by holding it & pushing on it, and I can decrease the hum very slightly by pushing hard upwards on it -- which makes me think I should try doing what you did, stuffing some non-combustible material in between the housing and the sheet metal underneath it. What material did you use? There isn't more than 1/8" of space there. But I'd like to try doing whatever it was you did! In the meantime, I'll keep reading this forum -- it is a big help. Thanks.


----------



## canboy

Response to jdlimabean .....  23 February 2009 10:28 AM: 

The approach that you have described is exactly what I have been doing.  I also loosened the screws off a bit at one point.  That helped somewhat but have since retightened them.  I wedged a very thin piece of a soft, flue exhaust fan gasket (about 1/8 inch thick and spongelike) from a pellet stove to dampen the vibration under the fan.  This has been moderately successful but almost everytime I turn the fan on, it needs a gentle nudge up or down or back or sideways etc. to change the tone.  It only moves slightly but still enough to quiet it down somewhat.   You could experiment with a small piece of gasket used for wood stove glass/doors.  The gasket used on the Montpelier would be too thick...you could find something thinner and tighter at a woodstove shop.


----------



## jdlimabean

At the moment, more or less by chance, my fan is being fairly quiet.   It's good to compare notes with fellow Montpelier "early adopters!"


----------



## jdlimabean

Well, i just found out what "enable smileys" means! I did NOT mean to put that big yellow grinning face in my previous post! Only a little sideways smile.  I'm learning...!


----------



## allhandsworking

Don't mean to get of the subject but I have a good tip for new wood burners! I started using a thermometer on my Montpelier. It is placed on the top of the arch of the door. I noticed that temp remain high after all flame is gone and there is just a bed of hot coals. Temp maintain for a good hour or more! I'm saving substantial amount's of wood burning in this manner!   I know this may seem obvious to many.


----------



## jdlimabean

Hello fellow V.C. Montpelierites -- I have found a solution to the humming fan noise that is ideal for me: I don't use the fan at all when I'm in the room and want to enjoy the fire. I turn it off. The room heats up just fine, maybe a little more slowly. Once the initial small fire is well established and I load it up with logs, I put the air control at medium low, and it keeps the house comfortable -- with no fan. When I leave, I turn the fan on its lowest setting just to get the maximum heat into the room when I'm not around to hear it. I'm happy as a clam!


----------



## canboy

Response to JDLimabean:

That begs the question: If you leave your Montpelier running and no one is home, does the fan make any noise?


----------



## jdlimabean

You're funny... Thanks for making me laugh! I needed that. (Now I'll find out what a "fast reply" is.)


----------



## allhandsworking

why not put fan on high when you leave the house?


----------



## jdlimabean

Hi Allhandsworking -- I find I get all the heat I need with the fan on low, even when I'm not in the house. As far as the fan noise, mine is as quiet now as I think it can be gotten. There is no vibration, only a very low hum. (When I stuffed insulation under the fan housing the noise got louder.) I grew up in a very old house with stone fireplaces and a huge iron coal stove in the kitchen, and tending fires is "in my blood." The sound of a fan accompanying it just bothers me... I'm happier without it.


----------



## a_glenny

This forum is great! I apologize if this question has already been answered somewhere else, but nobody seems too concerned about Vermont Casting's ownership woes. After looking somewhat exhaustively at inserts after the big ice storm, my wife and I finally agreed that we liked the look and feel of the Montpelier the best for our brick fireplace. 

But just as I got ready to pull the trigger, I started reading all of the horrifying news about the company's bankruptcy, change of ownership, layoffs, warranty issues etc.

What's everyone's thoughts on this? Am I putting too much weight on this? Should I be more concerned with the reputation of the installer?


----------



## canboy

I held off purchasing my Montpelier during the summer because of the bankruptcy situation with Vermont Castings.  However, once Monessen bought the company, I felt pretty comfortable with that turn of events.  The economy sucks right now.  Anyone manufacturing items that go into new construction would be hurting.  I expect all fireplace manufacturers are suffering.  The fact that Monessen had the financial clout to purchase VC at this point, suggests they have financial strength and foresight or they are really stupid.  I am going with the former.  I can't imagine that you make a purchase like acquiring VC, only to let it die or shut it down.  The intellectual capital and EPA approvals that have been acquired on these products is extremely valuable.  I am optimistic about VC's future, so went ahead with the purchase.


----------



## weatherguy

I'd read the reviews on the Montlpelier on this board and do a search with Montpelier being the keyword. There was a problem with them, I dont remember what it was but you may be interested in reading about it before you purchase.


----------



## allhandsworking

Insert shopper I started this post!  When I purchased my Montpelier VC in the fall of 08 there was no info on it!  It was that new!  Since then there is an ocean of opinions and info.  After burning for a full winter my family loves it!  The wife loves that it still looks like a fire place.  I like that I cut my oil useage by 2/3s.  It would have been better but I started running low on seasoned wood.  I rather burn oil than struggel trying to maintain a fire with crappy green wood!  People who complain about problems or blackining glass are mostly due to green wood!  Dry wood makes all the differance in a good hot fire that burns clean!  These EPA stoves are so amazing!  My naeghboors pointed out that when they saw my wood pile they thought they were going to be smoked out!  To this day they say that they have never smelled any smoke from my home!  I start the insert with the door cracked open for the first 15 minutes then lock the door when it gets going.  Good luck im very happy with the insert!


----------



## YZF1R

Ours is to be installed Monday the 16th. Not sure if I'll fire it up or not until next season. If we would get a cold spell I'm afraid by the time I seasoned the castings with the break-in fires, then cleaned the glass ready for a proper hot, clean burn, it would be over. Then again, I would love to see it burn.

Steve


----------



## allhandsworking

I have noticed some small hair line cracks in the ceramic brick liner in the insert.  Is this normal or should i be concerned.


----------



## YZF1R

I saw another post on cracks and it seemed no big deal. These were in bricks though, not the cast ceramic brick liner we have. Our liners are not as thick as firebricks so they may tend to get hairline cracks easier. I have been burning mine (only a few weeks) and I am careful not to wedge or knock the liner with a split. (I'm no way implying you're not.) I saw this possibility when we purchased. I'm sure they cost a lot more to replace than just going out and buying a new firebrick. 

Steve


----------



## jdlimabean

This is interesting.. the back ceramic panel of my Montpelier has developed a crack running vertically from the top down, almost all the way. I noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and have been wondering whether this is something to be expected, or something covered under the warranty. Each panel has a separate item #, and replaceable. I've just been waiting to call the dealer to ask about it. I know for certain that I have not overfired the stove, and I don't think I've ever handled the wood so roughly as to ram the back with a log. So I 'm interested to hear that another Montpelier has also had the lining crack. I'll let you know what the dealer says after I talk to him.


----------



## allhandsworking

Thanks for the fast reply. Ill be standing by. Let me know what your dealer says. I never struck the lining with wood or over-fired either. I only run the stove open for the first 20 minutes to establish the fire! Over the years I have seen insert fireplaces with similar material in the firebox and they all had cracks in them!


----------



## sobakahaidamaka

Anybody have any thoughts on Insert Tax Credit and Montpelier efficiency?

Other manufacturers give some indication of % efficiency and some indication as to whether their products will qualify for the tax credit.   When I talked with our dealer, he indicated that he has no information on Vermont Casting products.  

I called the company, and they would not give me any information on projected efficiency for their products and whether they would qualify.  I pointed out that potential cusomers are waiting to pull the trigger on purchases due to questions about the tax credit or are buying competing products of other manufacturers; and that by not providing information they are losing business.  The rep on the phone did not care.


----------



## canboy

I talked to my dealer about cracks in the Montpelier firebrick lining.  He said that cracks in this type of liner is perfectly normal and that the liner has a steel mesh inside that keeps it all together.


----------



## rkmille

Just recently got my Montpelier insert installed (took advantage of some great sales!), and had a chance to give it a run tonight.  But now I'm wondering ... why don't I see the power cord?  It's not plugged into the nearby outlet, and we didn't have an electrician hardwire it.  I didn't get much of a fire going, so I'm not too surprised that the fan didn't start, but I'm wondering if I need to call the installers back to find out what's going on with the power cord.  Can anyone help before I bother them?


----------



## canboy

When you open the grill at the bottom front of the stove to access the fan control, you should see the electrical wire running to the left or right.  The cord exits on the left or right about 6 inches behind the surround.   Remove the surround, and then lay the cord so it goes out to your electrical outlet.  Then replace the surround.  Make sure the switch is turned (turn clockwise) to the "on" position.  Once the fire is hot enough, the fan will start to blow.  NOTE: If there is no wire and no switch, I think they forgot to put the fan in.


----------



## rkmille

Thanks.  I'll check that tonight.  The fan switch is definitely there.


----------



## rkmille

Took off the surround.  No sign of a power cord back there.  Turns out they just didn't bother to route it properly out the side of the unit.  Got the plate off, maneuvered the cord through.  Now it's done properly.  That's what I get for getting the discounted install, I guess...


----------



## YZF1R

The cord will be inside the two little panels on the bottom. You open the left one to get to the blower switch/speed knob. The cord should be behind the right one all bundled up in there. There is a small cover on either side along the very bottom of the insert in back of the surround. Remove the screw on whatever side you want to take the cord out and remove the little cover and thread the cord through. It can be seen on page three of the instructions that come with the unit. (Also downloadable from their web site.)

Steve

On Edit: Wow, I was way late on that one. I just responded to the e-mail notification without looking. Guess I'll look before posting from now on.


----------



## diodeduster

i will be cleaning my ss liner in the next few weeks and pulling out the insert to install a block off plate to increase my output temp because the co that installed it had no clue what a block off plate was. i was wondering if anybody had any experince yet in cleaning there"s and what you had to do in cleaning the liner without pulling out the stove. Thanks Ed


----------



## summit

haidamaka said:
			
		

> Anybody have any thoughts on Insert Tax Credit and Montpelier efficiency?
> 
> Other manufacturers give some indication of % efficiency and some indication as to whether their products will qualify for the tax credit.   When I talked with our dealer, he indicated that he has no information on Vermont Casting products.
> 
> I called the company, and they would not give me any information on projected efficiency for their products and whether they would qualify.  I pointed out that potential cusomers are waiting to pull the trigger on purchases due to questions about the tax credit or are buying competing products of other manufacturers; and that by not providing information they are losing business.  The rep on the phone did not care.



they shouldnt be telling anyone that they will get a tax credit, because it has not been signed into law yet. If it does not go thru, many dealers will have angry customers who were promised a 30% credit on their stove... potential for some lawsuits.


----------



## BrotherBart

summit said:
			
		

> they shouldnt be telling anyone that they will get a tax credit, because it has not been signed into law yet. If it does not go thru, many dealers will have angry customers who were promised a 30% credit on their stove... potential for some lawsuits.



The President signed the bill into law on February 17th 2009. What hasn't happened is the release by the IRS of the approved efficiency testing methodology and standards.


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## jdlimabean

This is just to let you know that the back firebox panel of my Montpelier, which developed a crack from top to bottom, is being replaced by the dealer. It is covered under the warranty.


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## YZF1R

Good to hear!

Steve


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## whitefang

Got a new Montpelier insert to replace an old Vermont Castings WinterWarm. Went with the Caprice surround and found it didn't quite fit with a small gap above the stove but dealer made up a filler piece that worked nicely rather than having to go with a larger and more expensive surround. Fired up the first test fire in September and everything went as planned. Drafted OK and the fans came on once the insert heated up. Was pleased to hear they were much quieter than the previous WinterWarm and certainly not as bad as some of the posts in this forum would have lead me to believe. After the successful first test fire, we had a couple of more fires with no backdraft or other issues except that now, for some reason, the fan has stopped working completely. Yes, I checked the switch and it is on! So, I called in the dealer and they came out to take a look. I was thinking this would be a simple replacement of a thermostat or something like that but they didn't seem to have a clue on how to remove or replace either the fan unit or any thermostat controller that might be involved. Said they'd talk to VC and get back to me. Wondering if any other owners out there have had the fan unit die on them and what the solution was so I can compare notes. Thanks in advance for advice on this.

Oh, and after the dealer/installer left and had poked around, I tried starting another fire just to see if maybe something had gotten moved or adjusted enough for the fan to kick back on. Well this time I had the dreaded smokey backdraft problem that some people in this forum complained about. It was so bad I couldn't open the door without filling the room with smoke. I left the insert closed until most of the smoke had dissipated, opened a couple of windows to get some air in the room, and started a small fire on top of what was already in there to get a draft going and that seemed to resolve the problem. Today was the first cold day outside and the first time the heat was kicking on in the house so hopefully I can chalk this up as just a bad flue drafting problem that some fire starting skill will avoid in the future.


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## jdlimabean

I'm trying to remember from last winter --  (I haven't lit a fire yet this Fall!) I think I only had a smoke-pouring-into-the-room problem once, when I was first learning to use the stove, and opened the door too fast. You do have to remember to always crack it first and wait for a few seconds, then open it the rest of the way. Also, as I remember it, I found that keeping the door cracked for a few minutes after lighting the kindling helped get the fire going. (Only for a few minutes, though. Then I'd latch the door.) Other than that, I followed the guidelines in the VC pamphlet, which were pretty accurate and helpful. Good luck with the fan problem -- that's a discouraging thing to start out with.


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## YZF1R

I haven't had any problems with my fan going out. The snap stat may have become dislodged. The wires are barely long enough to connect everything and then install the fan. I do not know why the dealer could not trouble shoot the fan. There is just a fan, the off/on/speed switch, and the snap stat.

I see this sort of dealer not knowing much about what they sell thing turning up a fair amount on the forums. Also, you would think they or their installers would have some sorrt of electro-mechanical aptitude in order to solve very simple problems like this. Sheesh, can anyone just decide to be a dealer if there is an opening in the area? I mean come on, the dealer or installers can not trouble shoot a fan? They look at it and for the life of them can not see how it comes out of there? Did not even look at the parts diagram in the instructions that came with the insert? That would have at least given them a clue how to get it out. Then they could have seen if the snap stat dislodged. If it looked OK, they could then have jumped out the componets one by one until they found the problem even without a DVM.

OK, I'm done with the rant. Just erks me that simple stuff like this is such a major problem for the customer to get rectified.

Steve


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## YZF1R

Well, I got going on my previous post and forgot all about the smoke problem. I know with mine and I believe some others also, you pretty near need to leave the fire cycle through to coals or almost coals. It's not like a fire place where you just keep adding logs to the fire. If I were to open mine even slowly while the flames were a cookin good, I'm pretty sure I would get smoke back into the house. The secondary's are all pointed towards the front. The flames are just too strong to come out and then make a sudden 90 degree turn up and over the baffle with the door open.

Steve


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## jdlimabean

I never add wood while the fire is burning strongly and licking the window, but when it's about half burned down and I know the logs won't last much longer I will often add a couple more logs. I turn the fan off and open the air as wide as it will go before I open the door, and have never had the slightest smoke. But I've never tried opening the door while flames were coming forward.


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## Wildman_fab

We are looking to buy one of these inserts and this thread has been very informative! 
I have found that alot of the problems being described here I have found with the Lopi insert my folks have, smoke, draft, fan noise etc.


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## YZF1R

whitefang, I just re-read your post on the smoke. If I get it correctly, you were trying to re-light a fire that had gone pretty much out and not a lot of coals left, or maybe not the best of dry wood. If so, yes, it will smolder something fierce until a flame is ignited. There is so much smoke for the little bit of draft that yes smoke will come out of the door if opened. Like you said, it got much better once you lit some paper in there to get flame. Also, same thing when starting a new fire. You want to establish a good flame quickly. Hence the top down starting method you may have seen posts about. However you start or get a fire going, you need to first make a good guess as to how much kindling or whatever you use to get the flames going quickly and strongly will be enough. This is part of the learning curve you will develop as you get used to your insert, your wood, etc.

Steve


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## daryl

YZF1R said:
			
		

> whitefang, I just re-read your post on the smoke. If I get it correctly, you were trying to re-light a fire that had gone pretty much out and not a lot of coals left, or maybe not the best of dry wood. If so, yes, it will smolder something fierce until a flame is ignited. There is so much smoke for the little bit of draft that yes smoke will come out of the door if opened. Like you said, it got much better once you lit some paper in there to get flame. Also, same thing when starting a new fire. You want to establish a good flame quickly. Hence the top down starting method you may have seen posts about. However you start or get a fire going, you need to first make a good guess as to how much kindling or whatever you use to get the flames going quickly and strongly will be enough. This is part of the learning curve you will develop as you get used to your insert, your wood, etc.
> 
> Steve



Through the years I have been on a hundred of these calls,smoke rolls out door,no draft,stove does not heat up.I show up at their door with a bag of my own wood.And proceed too light a fire. In no more then 45 minutes I can almost always get the stove hotter then they have ever seen it,drafting good and no smoke rolling out door just by useing good wood and starting techniecs.There is a learning curve for everything and once learned it becomes second nature.So use good dry wood and open up the air and let it rip.


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## YZF1R

Daryl, that is an excellent way to handle those calls! I never would have thought to simply arrive at their door with an armload of proper wood. whitefang, please understand that I (and I'm sure Daryl) are not automatically accusing you of burning semi-seasoned wood, it just happens to be a very common problem.

Steve


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## Fod01

Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small?  I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly.  I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.


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## canboy

WHITEFANG:  Here are a couple of additional thoughts:

FAN: Since your dealer doesn't know what he is doing...suggest you remove the two screws that hold the fan in place, disconnect the two wires to the thermostat and connect them together, thereby passing the thermostat.  If the fan works, you now know the problem is the thermosat.  If the fan doesn't work it is somewhere in the fan (or maybe the dealer unplugged the fan from the wall).

SMOKE: All suggestions provided about dry wood, waiting until the fire settles are good.  Also since you said the heat had come on in your house, if you have central air, there is the potential that the air supply is not balanced with the return in that room.  Turn off the central air and check your stove draft again.


----------



## whitefang

_[/quote]Through the years I have been on a hundred of these calls,smoke rolls out door,no draft,stove does not heat up.I show up at their door with a bag of my own wood.And proceed too light a fire. In no more then 45 minutes I can almost always get the stove hotter then they have ever seen it,drafting good and no smoke rolling out door just by useing good wood and starting techniecs.There is a learning curve for everything and once learned it becomes second nature.So use good dry wood and open up the air and let it rip.[/quote]_
-------
Thanks for the advice everyone, but I'm not a newbie at this and have been lighting lots of fires for a long time and my wood supply is good. In this case, with the new Montpelier insert, I had previously started several fires without incident. This time around though there was a bad combination of things, mostly - I think - the weather and air temps inside and out. Simply getting a "starter fire" going on the top of my fuel supply and warming/priming the flue seemed to do the trick. The reason I was writing about this was because I was concerned that this is the first time this has happened to me and it was immediately after the dealer/technician had left and fiddled with the fan mechanism. Hopefully the first time will be the last time this happens but I'll repost and let you know how things go since the cold weather is now arriving!


----------



## whitefang

_


			
				Fod01 said:
			
		


			Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small?  I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly.  I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.
		
Click to expand...

_------
I'm not sure if the previous WinterWarm was large or small, but it seemed large since we had lots of room to load it up with wood. That old model had a catalytic converter and even though I've read lots of stories where people have had issues with them, it always seemed to work OK for us. Probably because my wife is such a good technician and replaced the catalytic element herself (yea!) over time plus kept the rest of it in tip top shape (yea again!). I have to say though, the fan on the old beast was loud and by comparison, the Montpelier insert was a LOT quieter, at least the first time I got to witness it working. I can also tell you that the Montpelier most definitely throws the heat out better too. The room it is in is 13'x23' and it gets nice and toasty in there, even without the fan going if the fire has burned long enough. The only drawback I see is the lack of a good battery backup for the fan mechanism for those ice storms that kill the power. We don't have a generator and it would be nice if someone knew of a simple battery supplied fan mechanism to keep the air flow and fan going at even a low RPM. We generally have one or two such storms and power-outs per season and the insert would be worth it's weight as a backup heater for the house if the fan still worked.

The only reason we replaced the WinterWarm was that it was old, the catalytic converter was ready for replacement (again), we wanted to try and take advantage of the tax credit on the new insert while we could, and we got a good price for the old one selling it used to a knowledgeable person who wanted it.


----------



## seacarlson

My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input.  I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove.  However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered!  Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks!  Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it.  After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference!  The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go!  WAY EASIER...  and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable.  Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all.  I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so.  Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all!  Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way.   Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys


----------



## allhandsworking

seacarlson said:
			
		

> My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
> New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input.  I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove.  However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered!  Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks!  Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it.  After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference!  The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go!  WAY EASIER...  and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable.  Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all.  I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so.  Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all!  Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way.   Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys



I can see this working.  I usually just put two short splits north south then stack splits across them.


----------



## begreen

That's all I do on our stove. Easy starts by creating a tunnel for the starting air to get under the fire from the front of the stove. 2x4 cut off scraps work good for this too. Space them about 6-8" apart.


----------



## allhandsworking

allhandsworking said:
			
		

> seacarlson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My experience after 2 weeks of burning!!
> New to forums here, and wana thank everyone for there great input.  I, alike most of you has had some what of a rocky start with this stove.  However I have managed to work through all of it and now have this thing mastered!  Here is the trick, and its most likely the wrong thing to do lol, but I have had nothing but positive results from it, and it cost me 8 bucks!  Was in Home depot, and saw a 17" cast iron log holder for inside a fire place, I figured, this would keep the wood about 3" off the floor and would have a good way to get air all around it.  After the first burn i noticed a HUGE difference!  The only trick is to get some hot coals on the floor, then charge the wood holder 2 - 3 pieces and shut the damper 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and let it go!  WAY EASIER...  and hardly any smoke on glass, barley noticeable.  Wood charged at night last's much longer and ready for a piece in the morning to catch without much leg work at all.  I under stand the manual says "don't elevate fuel" or something like that, but I was desperate and wanted to give it a try, and have had nothing but ease doing so.  Wife can keep it going while i'm at work with no problems at all!  Also, just a hint, if you decide to do this, cut the smaller wire mesh out from the bottom of the cast iron wood holder if it has one, you want the big chunks of coal to drop to the floor, i did this after a few try's and decided it was just a pain in the butt, so cut it out, much better this way.   Good luck, and again thanks for the info guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see this working.  I usually just put two short splits north south then stack splits across them.
Click to expand...


Get some seasoned wood that is under 25% miosture and that baby will shoot to the moon!  dont use that rack if you have good seasoned wood!


----------



## whitefang

As a (hopefully) final followup, my dealer replaced the entire fan/blower unit. According to them there was a faulty wire inside. The comment on pulling it out and directly connecting the fan wires by bypassing the thermoset switch was a good way to test whether or not the fan itself was working (it wasn't). Have had several fires with the new fan unit and so far all is well. No more issues with smoke build up, fires are burning clean, glass is staying pretty much clear, and our room is staying warm. I'm thinking you can chalk up one more happy Montpelier owner for now.


----------



## jfournier

I ordered a montpelier insert back in July of '08 and just found this site/thread, but I too had a lot of the problems detailed here...I wasn't terribly prepared last winter as far as my wood supply, so I ended up burning a lot of wood green, which meant I was very lucky just to keep the house around 60 with the stove going, burning through a lot of wood.  I eventually figured out that building the log cabin style stack of wood in the firebox resulted in the most heat output, but luckily now I have nicely seasoned wood and the stove is now able to get my house up over 70 degrees in a couple of hours.  I think it's a fussy stove, but given my limitations in choice (must go in fireplace, and look nice for the wife), it seemed the montpelier was the best choice.

One question I have is, why is the whole firebox, save the top, insulated?  I can understand insulating the fan and stuff underneath, but why keep the rest of the cast iron shell insulated?  Does the firebox really get that hot?


----------



## allhandsworking

jfournier said:
			
		

> I ordered a montpelier insert back in July of '08 and just found this site/thread, but I too had a lot of the problems detailed here...I wasn't terribly prepared last winter as far as my wood supply, so I ended up burning a lot of wood green, which meant I was very lucky just to keep the house around 60 with the stove going, burning through a lot of wood. I eventually figured out that building the log cabin style stack of wood in the firebox resulted in the most heat output, but luckily now I have nicely seasoned wood and the stove is now able to get my house up over 70 degrees in a couple of hours. I think it's a fussy stove, but given my limitations in choice (must go in fireplace, and look nice for the wife), it seemed the montpelier was the best choice.
> 
> One question I have is, why is the whole firebox, save the top, insulated? I can understand insulating the fan and stuff underneath, but why keep the rest of the cast iron shell insulated? Does the firebox really get that hot?



All EPA stoves/inserts will struggle with green or under seasoned wood! Its not just a VC trait check out the Jotul insert threads and you will read about newbies swearing they have seasoned wood because that is what the wood guy told them! With seasoned wood you will have no black staining and loads more heat! I have properly seasoned wood this year and turn may air intake all the way to the right(shut) and she still burn with awesome secondary flames! The fire box is insulated to bring temp inside the fire box up to insure total burn. The top is not insulated so the blower channels will carry that heat out into the room! Im not an expert but this is the layman explanation.


----------



## allhandsworking

whitefang said:
			
		

> _
> 
> 
> 
> Fod01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whitefang - was that a Winterwarm large or small? I hope the fan issue gets resolved quickly. I'm curious to hear how the old vs. new stoves compare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _------
> I'm not sure if the previous WinterWarm was large or small, but it seemed large since we had lots of room to load it up with wood. That old model had a catalytic converter and even though I've read lots of stories where people have had issues with them, it always seemed to work OK for us. Probably because my wife is such a good technician and replaced the catalytic element herself (yea!) over time plus kept the rest of it in tip top shape (yea again!). I have to say though, the fan on the old beast was loud and by comparison, the Montpelier insert was a LOT quieter, at least the first time I got to witness it working. I can also tell you that the Montpelier most definitely throws the heat out better too. The room it is in is 13'x23' and it gets nice and toasty in there, even without the fan going if the fire has burned long enough. The only drawback I see is the lack of a good battery backup for the fan mechanism for those ice storms that kill the power. We don't have a generator and it would be nice if someone knew of a simple battery supplied fan mechanism to keep the air flow and fan going at even a low RPM. We generally have one or two such storms and power-outs per season and the insert would be worth it's weight as a backup heater for the house if the fan still worked.
> 
> The only reason we replaced the WinterWarm was that it was old, the catalytic converter was ready for replacement (again), we wanted to try and take advantage of the tax credit on the new insert while we could, and we got a good price for the old one selling it used to a knowledgeable person who wanted it.



Your install looks real tight but when its really cold out and you loss power just remove the surround you will get more radiant heat it works I tried it. I even have room to put a pot of water or a Roast beef hero on garlic bread wrapped in foal.


----------



## Acadia

Anyone have any experience with (or know someone who does) the 3" Extension kit for the Montpelier insert?  I'm just about to go with the Montpelier insert, have to use an extension to fit into our fireplace. --  our old brick fireplace just too small for flush install so need to go with the VC extension kit which projects the firebox 3" out.  Also raising the unit (& hearth) 3" to keep the hearth from protruding too far into the room (saves 2").   I just finished reading through this entire thread and the information from everyone has been really helpful - nervous at first about the Montpelier but it seems that most everyone's problems have been working out through trial & error as well as each other's helpful posts.  So now I just wonder whether the 3" extension will reveal more issues...


----------



## Fod01

I haven't read that anyone this board has used the extension.  Nice option though.  Nice stove as well.

Perhaps opening a new topic would give better visibility to the board's many dealers/ installers.
Good luck - Gabe


----------



## Acadia

Thanks - will open new thread/topic


----------



## Lynn0101

The suggestions on how to raise the wood (north/south splits) sounds good!  I am still a beginner when it comes to using a wood stove and find it very tricky keeping the flames 'going'...  I bought my Montpelier insert in 2008 and had only an "OK" experience with it but this Fall, using the left over wood,Ash, from last year, I had a really nice fire going.  Unfortunately that wood is now used up.  I purchased 3 cords of mixed, seasoned hard wood and have lugged a bunch of it into my enclosed porch and cellar to enable it to dry more.  I do know one important thing to keep in mind with this insert, the splits need to be thinner than what is normally delivered regular wood stove.  I am now busy pricing manual log splitters so I can split my split logs down to a smaller diameter.  I don't have the strength to swing an ax to cut them down more so am trying to come up with a different method. Any suggestions on how to manage the Montpelier would be much appreciated!


----------



## jfournier

Yeah I too have found that you have to split everything down small in order to get any heat out of the thing if the wood isn't 2+ years seasoned...I had some really dry wood left and had a wonderful fire that warmed the house nicely, but using oak at about 20% moisture content and even slightly lower, I can't get much heat unless the splits are really small.

But I'm getting better at running the thing; I'm able to get the firebox and door to warm up fairly quickly, and have found that having a thermometer on the top arch of the door at at least 300 degrees F provides decent heat, and have only ever got it up to 400. It's usually around 350 with a load of wood in and the secondaries going with the air control around 1/4 open to fully closed. Has anyone else found different results with regards to temperature on top of the door?


----------



## Wildman_fab

I haven't put the thermometer on the stove yet (couldn't figure out where to put it HA! ) But I find that it produces best with a serious bed of coals before putting the 'regular sized wood' in there. It takes some time to build the bed up that's for sure! I am burning stuff that is mixed, 2 years seasoned, 1 year and even the occasional green stick. I have been leaving the damper open exactly straight out.  If its closed any more it I find that the fire dies down too much and the fan kicks off.  At least I hope thats whats happening, my fan has been coming off and on recently. What temp does the fan kick on?


----------



## cheapheatnow

New to this forum...learning some great tips though.  2nd heating season and I'm looking to maximize.  I noticed quite a bit of dust clogging the intake on the fan housing...also the fan switch sits on top of the left side of the fan intake...looks to me like that would restrict airflow.  All clean now.  Draft not a problem in this house. So I'm trying to tighten things up around doors and windows and balance between draft and insulation. But based on what I've learned here I think I'll look to run hotter in general to minimize soot build up on the glass.  Gathered, cut, stacked and seasoned 4 cord this year...but now I wish I had made the splits smaller based on the experience of other posts.  In general I like the unit.  Had a great dealer that did a first class install.


----------



## chuckda4th

I found this site to be absolutely amazing when making my decision on the VC Montpelier, as well as in my first week of use (Installed a week ago), so I thought I'd throw out there my first impressions.

First off, absolutely LOVE the unit so far (although tonight's the first night I'm in the 30s).  I have a split level with my stairway in the room with the fireplace, and my entire house is WARMER than when I had the furnace on.  I have central air and heat with a vent located on one side of the fireplace, and the return located on the other side, so I turn on my AC fan all night long when sleeping and running the VC.  Although the low has only been in the 40s both nights I've used it all night long, I woke up with the house and my bedroom warmer than when I was solely using my oil furnace, which was running about 50minutes each of the prior nights by the time I woke up.  I checked my thermostat's "usage" and the heater hadn't gone on once either night I was burning.

I have found as others have said that it can be a bit tempermental to get lit, but my so far flawless plan is as follows:
-2 short splits ~10" long in an upside-down V
-newspaper and kindling strewn both within and outside the V
-2 full length ~3" splits on top
-light the paper and move the latch on the door to the 6:00 position with it still open...close the door such that the latch in the 6:00 position doesn't let it close and the door actually stays open about .5".
-Let it sit for about 5min.  Once everything is caught and hot, close the door properly
-Let it sit for another 5-10min and throw 2 nice size splits on top

The fan kicks in within about 45min using this method, and stays on pretty much for good after that.  Speaking of the fan, mine does not rattle at all, and even at high, we can watch the TV located about 5' to the side of the fireplace with no problems (except for the extreme heat if you're within 3-4' of the fireplace).

As far as the door is concerned, I've seen no indication thus far that it is sagging (I think this was an issue with units made earlier).  The only time I've had black build-up on the glass was when I was messing around with another method of getting the fire going.  I put in too many logs too early and it clearly wasn't hot enough and the door was awful by the time the wood burnt.  Every other time I've burnt after about 6 hours the wood has no shape left, and this time there were still clear pieces of wood in the bottom, so I'm chalking it up to my fault and would recommend making sure your fire is HOT before putting in too much wood.  The next day I tried using a damp newspaper, which got some of the mess off, but not too much.  I then re-read the posts I got the tip from, and tried dipping the damp newspaper in ash, which made a small paste as I wiped the glass door, and the black soot came off almost immediately.  I was really surprised how great that worked.

As far as the smoke complaints I've seen, I've noticed if I open the door VERY slowly (about 15 seconds to open it to half way) I get no smoke whatsoever in the room.  It's only when I rush it that I get smoke.

I do have very well seasoned wood, as I got multiple recommendations on who to order from.  Only thing I've noticed so far is the rediculous amount of wood I've been going through.  I only ordered a half-chord, and I'm probably 1/6 of the way through it after only one week.  I'm thinking I better order a full cord soon before the guy I purchased from runs out, considering how great it's burning.

Also, I got the Georgian surround, which I hadn't seen any pictures of besides the horrible one in the brochure with the guy playing cards in front of it so you can barely see it.  I had to get it due to the size of my fireplace's opening, and I do not regret it one bit.  


I'm only one week in, but thus far the unit has more than exceeded my expectations, looks absolutely beautiful and I could not be happier.


----------



## Fod01

Nice review... clap clap clap


----------



## av8roc

Very informative review, thank you!   

I'm having mine installed on Thursday and I appreciate the tips.


----------



## chuckda4th

Mini update...

Temperature went down to 36 last night with a windchill of 30, and my oil heater didn't kick on once.  Woke up 8 hours later, and there were still glowing embers...built a fresh small fire, and it caught itself within 5min.  Awesome.


----------



## chuckda4th

Here's one...

The fan speed control is a dial with a dot on it.  The table in the manual reads:

Air Circulation
Fan Speed:Control Position
High:Horizontal
Low:Turn Clockwise
Off:Turn counterclockwise

What I'm not sure of is that when I have the dial turned horizontal, the manual says it is on "high".  However, as I turn it closer and closer to "Off", the fan obviously gets much louder and powerful indicating that it'll actually go higher than it does in the "horizontal" position.

Is the manual doing this on purpose and it's unsafe to run it at the higher speeds than when the dial is "horizontal", or is the documentation wrong, and the fan can safely and reliably be run at those speeds?


----------



## canboy

I am sure you are safe running the fan at any speed you like, including full speed thru off.

If there was a safety issue, they would have prevented you from selecting the setting.


----------



## YZF1R

Very nice looking install! We also have the Georgian surround. And yes, as canboy said, run the fan at whatever speed you wish. 

On a side note, I start my fires fully loaded and top down. The snap stat for the blower is on the front bottom. It takes almost 1:15 min until the blower comes on. I hate feeling the heat at the insert but not being able to get it out until the blower comes on, loosing an hours worth of heat and burned up wood. It will come on sooner if the fire is started from the bottom, getting heat to where the snap stat is faster. To avoid this, I simply removed the 2 screws holding the blower assembly in, pulled it out some, reached in and pulled out the snap stat, removed it and the 6 inches of wire harness, plugged the two wires together, and reassembled. Now I just turn on the blower after 15 or 20 min and start to get heat. Yes, you could also install a auto/man or auto/man/off switch if you wanted.

Steve


----------



## pnear

Hello all!

I've been absorbing information like a sponge from all of you, and am hours away from ordering my Montpelier.  A few questions I'm hoping you can help with...

1. Does anyone have a picture of a majolica brown Montpelier?  The only one I can see is a very tiny and blurry picture from the brochure on their website.
2. Has anyone installed the outside air kit?  I have a negative pressure issue in the house that I'm working to resolve, and suspect that getting outside air would be important but the installer seems skeptical.  Fireplace is on an outside wall, so I'm assuming he can just drill out the back to install it.

We're looking at the Caprice surround, and while I like the classic black look better my wife is seeming fairly insistent on the brown.  ;-)

Thanks in advance,
Pete


----------



## chuckda4th

Thought I'd put in another update for anyone getting it installed soon or recently.  

I typically start the unit around 5pm, get it fully going and put in my last load around midnight and go to bed.  Usually keep the draft at about 3/4 open, as that's the best "smoke on the glass when I wake up" to "longer burn time" ratio I've found.  Only seeing the furnace kick in around 730am for about 20min every morning, which brings upstairs warm enough to get ready for work.  Colder days (has happened 2 or 3 times in the 2 weeks), I'll get it going again in the morning and keep a small fire going all day (1-2 logs at a time), which I find keeps the house warm enough when I'm working upstairs in my office with a few computers around me that I'm comfortable (also has the added benefit of not having to re-light from scratch).  At 5 i then just load it up again.

Main thing I've been surprised at is the amount of wood I've gone through using the above methodology.  In the 2 weeks I've been running as such, I've gone through between 1/4 and 1/3 of a cord of wood.  Knowing it's only going to get colder and i'll run it all day long a bit more often later in the winter, I'm estimating I'm going to go through about 1 cord of wood every 5-6 weeks.  This means if I want to run all winter through early to mid March, I'm going to have gone through about 3! cords of wood.

Where I live I don't have enough yard to hold 2 cords, let alone 3 (besides the fact every square inch of grass I have would then be covered in wood piles), so luckily the guy I get my wood from said he would charge me the 1 cord rate (like $50 less than 2 1/2's) and just deliver 1/2 cord today, and another 1/2 cord in about 3 weeks to keep me going.  He guaranteed me he'd still have the same quality wood for me.

*So...just fair warning to potential stove buyers...make sure you have plenty of room for wood (at LEAST a cord and even then only if you plan on doing full burns 2-3 nights a week all winter), or can setup a delivery plan of some sort, otherwise you won't be burning for long.*

All in all...still love the unit.  A bit of work to clean up here and there and move wood around, but when the thing is kicking it puts off MAJOR heat and best off, doesn't look like some afterthought that was just tossed in your fireplace like I always thought the majority of the Hamptons and Jotols looked like IMHO.


----------



## nwohguy

chuckda4th said:
			
		

> Thought I'd put in another update for anyone getting it installed soon or recently.
> 
> I typically start the unit around 5pm, get it fully going and put in my last load around midnight and go to bed.  Usually keep the draft at about 3/4 open, as that's the best "smoke on the glass when I wake up" to "longer burn time" ratio I've found.  Only seeing the furnace kick in around 730am for about 20min every morning, which brings upstairs warm enough to get ready for work.  Colder days (has happened 2 or 3 times in the 2 weeks), I'll get it going again in the morning and keep a small fire going all day (1-2 logs at a time), which I find keeps the house warm enough when I'm working upstairs in my office with a few computers around me that I'm comfortable (also has the added benefit of not having to re-light from scratch).  At 5 i then just load it up again.
> 
> Main thing I've been surprised at is the amount of wood I've gone through using the above methodology.  In the 2 weeks I've been running as such, I've gone through between 1/4 and 1/3 of a cord of wood.  Knowing it's only going to get colder and i'll run it all day long a bit more often later in the winter, I'm estimating I'm going to go through about 1 cord of wood every 5-6 weeks.  This means if I want to run all winter through early to mid March, I'm going to have gone through about 3! cords of wood.
> 
> Where I live I don't have enough yard to hold 2 cords, let alone 3 (besides the fact every square inch of grass I have would then be covered in wood piles), so luckily the guy I get my wood from said he would charge me the 1 cord rate (like $50 less than 2 1/2's) and just deliver 1/2 cord today, and another 1/2 cord in about 3 weeks to keep me going.  He guaranteed me he'd still have the same quality wood for me.
> 
> *So...just fair warning to potential stove buyers...make sure you have plenty of room for wood (at LEAST a cord and even then only if you plan on doing full burns 2-3 nights a week all winter), or can setup a delivery plan of some sort, otherwise you won't be burning for long.*
> 
> All in all...still love the unit.  A bit of work to clean up here and there and move wood around, but when the thing is kicking it puts off MAJOR heat and best off, doesn't look like some afterthought that was just tossed in your fireplace like I always thought the majority of the Hamptons and Jotols looked like IMHO.



I am a newbie with the Montpelier also.  Ours was installed about a month ago.  I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine?  We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends.  How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it?  We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently.  Thanks for your help.


----------



## chuckda4th

> I am a newbie with the Montpelier also.  Ours was installed about a month ago.  I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine?  We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends.  How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it?  We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently.  Thanks for your help.



I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly.  It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often.  Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.

I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning.  It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning.  That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.  I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with.  The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am.  I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.

I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this.  I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips.  Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).


----------



## nwohguy

chuckda4th said:
			
		

> I am a newbie with the Montpelier also.  Ours was installed about a month ago.  I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine?  We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends.  How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it?  We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently.  Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly.  It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often.  Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.
> 
> I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning.  It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning.  That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.  I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with.  The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am.  I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.
> 
> I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this.  I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips.  Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).
Click to expand...


Wow, i am amazed   I have been cleaning all the ash out after each burn.  Are you saying you leave a 2" bed of ash inside the firebox after you clean out the rest?  Do you still have a fire going in the morning after a all-night burn or just some hot coals?   And does your glass get dirty during the day when you are burning a log or two at a time?


----------



## chuckda4th

nwohguy said:
			
		

> chuckda4th said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a newbie with the Montpelier also.  Ours was installed about a month ago.  I was wondering how often do you clean out the ashes using your burning routine?  We do not burn all day, sometimes in the evenings during the week and then on weekends.  How hot do you run it, do you have a thermometer on it?  We are trying to learn how to correctly operate it efficently.  Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've cleaned them out 2x so far including today, so thus far I'd say weekly.  It seems like when the unit is kicking and the secondary combustion is doing its job it is really efficient at burning everything to as small, fine an ash as possible, which makes it so I don't seem to have to clean it as often.  Even still, remember that you want to keep a 2" layer of ash in there even after it's been cleaned.
> 
> I do not have a thermometer on it, however I have definitely noticed a correlation between where I have the damper when I go to bed, and how cloudy the window is in the morning.  It seems like most of my fogging happens when the fire is on the later hours of the burn as even if I load it up at 11pm and stay in the room until 1am like on the weekends, it's still clean when I go to bed and a bit dirty in the morning.  That being said, 90% of all the fogging disappears within 30min of getting the next night's fire fully going, so it's really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.  I probably don't run it at full "heat efficiency", but I would say I have a nice system going which gives me more "work efficiency", which reduces the amount of time I have to spend cleaning/maintaining it and still plenty of heat to be happy with.  The amount of time I spend cleaning/maintaining it is more important to me than a degree of warmth in the room at 7am.  I'm sure I could eek out another hour of burn time if i really wanted to, but then I'd bet I'd likely have to clean the glass much more often.
> 
> I also would by no means claim to be an expert at this.  I'm still learning myself, and from what I've seen on these forums, YMMV to some degree with all of these tips.  Some people have to run with their damper 3/4 open all night long (most likely external fireplaces like mine), while others can get away with it only 1/4 open and have full raging fires with no fogging (most likely internal).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, i am amazed   I have been cleaning all the ash out after each burn.  Are you saying you leave a 2" bed of ash inside the firebox after you clean out the rest?  Do you still have a fire going in the morning after a all-night burn or just some hot coals?   And does your glass get dirty during the day when you are burning a log or two at a time?
Click to expand...


That's correct - I leave a ~2" bed of ash after each cleaning.  From what I've seen, those "chunkier" ashes on the bottom still have burning to do...especially in the secondary combustion.  Lets say I clean out the fireplace completely, and burn over night.  I'd generate something like 20 in^3 of what I'd call "chunky ash".  I leave that ash in there and burn again the exact same size fire the following night.  My experience has shown that the morning after the second night long burn, I'd only have something like 27 in^3 of ash (numbers are estimates, but I'd say the proportions are correct), this time with like 7 in^3 of it being VERY fine and obviously well burnt ash, and the other 20 in^3 being "chunky".  So, what I'm seeing is that the "chunky ash" actually has some more burning to be done.  This makes sense knowing that a secondary burn re-burns the ash from a fire at an extremely high temperature, so if there's "chunky ash" on the bottom, it obviously still has stored kinetic energy, so why let it go to waste?  The rule of thumb I've gathered so far from the manual and the forums is simply don't let the ash cover up the 3 air slots that reside under the front plate under the andiron.  If it's getting close, i'll simply rake the ash towards the back of the unit, and burn away.  I've even let those holes get covered a decent amount, and the fire still received enough air, although I have a hunch my glass may get a bit dirtier than normal.  Either way, those slots are a good 2.5-3" above the base of the unit, so leaving a nice bed of ash in there shouldn't be an issue.

After an all-night burn I do not have a fire still, but almost always still have embers glowing enough to be visible through the door.  I usually rake them around a bit and find that there are plenty of other glowing ones in that "chunky ash".  I spread them out, throw a small split in, close the door, and in about 30min I'll usually come back to that split all but fully ablaze.  With that going, it's easy to start another big fire.

The times I've only done a log or two at a time, I'd estimate that it wasn't as clean as after a big fire, but certainly not bad.  Later in the day I load it up, and again, burning a big hot fire is the easiest way to clean a mildly smoky glass.  Every now and then I still have to use the damp newspaper dipped in ash method, but not too often, and that's really only when I want to be anal about it.  By the next time a big fire is kicking in there, the glass is more than clear enough to see 90% of it without any fogging.


----------



## jfournier

I usually have enough glowing red coals to get kindling going, so when I wake up or get home from work I open the air and the door and push the coals around, and things start glowing red. I also find that the pushing coals around helps any ash to settle to the bottom, so after a couple days I have a layer of black chunks that still have BTU's to give, and under that a pretty uniform layer of fine gray ash. So when I clean out, I go left to right, and push the chunks to the right, and scoop the dead gray ash out of the bottom. Then I push the coals back where I just picked up the ash, and continue until I get the dead gray ash, and I'm left with about 2-3" of leftover gray ash mixed with black chunks and coals.  This keeps enough space in the firebox to fit wood, and keeps the air holes clean, while still keeping that insulating layer of ash.

I too never expect to see flames after about 4, but with a full load my stove will stay at least 300 at the door for around 5.5-6 hours, and I'll have coals good to go for a new fire for quite a long time


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## av8roc

Anyone do the dollar bill test on their doors?


I've been burning for a week now and have certain spots on the door that always accumulate fairly thick fogging.  They are especially concentrated on the hinge side of the glass door.   I did the dollar bill test and confirmed by lighting a match while burning next to the seal that there are air leaks where the glass is fogging.   I tried tightening the door latch and even adjusted the hinges but I still cannot get a tight seal on the right side and thus the glass never burns off that buildup when I have a good fire going.

I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.    

Going to call the dealer tomorrow about the issue but I wanted to see if you guys have had similar experiences.

Thanks


----------



## jfournier

av8roc said:
			
		

> I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.



Yeah that sounds like you have an air leak; I haven't done the dollar bill test on mine but during the day, for instance, I load up the stove and usually have lots of secondary flames and a little bit of flame coming off the wood, sort of feeding into the secondaries. 
I get home at 5:30 and see one or two glowing coals, open the air and after two minutes there's a good number of hot coals, and I throw some kindling on and in a few minutes it's flamed up and ready to go...


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## rover47

I think the fogging on the right side of the door glass may be a "normal" occurance for the monpelier. I know if my wood is not perfect it gets dirty. Also the heat output goes down. But I have to work with what I have this year.
 I think the better the wood the less it will use. The stuff that isn't quite seasoned needs more air and gets consumed faster. I too have just coals after 5 or six hours. Actually after running all night the fan is just cutting off about 7am.
  I have the mead surround and like the look. It fits in with our 1913 house. There are pics some where on the site.


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## chuckda4th

av8roc said:
			
		

> Anyone do the dollar bill test on their doors?
> 
> 
> I've been burning for a week now and have certain spots on the door that always accumulate fairly thick fogging.  They are especially concentrated on the hinge side of the glass door.   I did the dollar bill test and confirmed by lighting a match while burning next to the seal that there are air leaks where the glass is fogging.   I tried tightening the door latch and even adjusted the hinges but I still cannot get a tight seal on the right side and thus the glass never burns off that buildup when I have a good fire going.
> 
> I can also close the air control completely with a full load of wood overnight and I'm lucky to find hot embers after 5.5 to 6 hours.
> 
> Going to call the dealer tomorrow about the issue but I wanted to see if you guys have had similar experiences.
> 
> Thanks



Try burning hotter with the damper open further.  I found that at least helped reduce the "thick fogging" to "mild fogging" and may possibly lead to embers hotter for longer.  I'm not sure how much air affects them as opposed to open flame, where it is obviously a factor.  I also found myself just lighting fires regardless of the amount of fogging, after which about an hour in with it burning hot most of the fogging disappeared.

I'm wondering if this thing is just so efficient that having an open flame for 6 hours at 350deg may actually leave a lower temperature at hour 7 then burning 5 hours of open flame at 425deg.  I don't have a thermometer to test, let alone one that would store hourly readings, but it's certainly possible.

Either way, I'd just say burning hotter with the damper open more is certainly worth a shot.  That's what I now do, and I've found that to be much better all-around.


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## Wildman_fab

Couple of questions for you guys,
Where are you putting your thermometers on you stoves? What are you seeing for temps? 
What temp is your fan kicking on at? 


With good dry wood (1-3 years seasoned) I am getting an excellent fire going, with the temp on the door reading 300-400 the fan will kick on and run for a while, then kick off.  Is there a problem with the temp pickups or a fan issue with these?  It moves a ton of air, and only makes a little bit of noise *I had a rattle when first installed, but fixed it*  It really puts the heat out there but only with the fan on, and its getting cold and WINDY!


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## jfournier

Wildman_fab said:
			
		

> Couple of questions for you guys,
> Where are you putting your thermometers on you stoves? What are you seeing for temps?
> What temp is your fan kicking on at?
> 
> 
> With good dry wood (1-3 years seasoned) I am getting an excellent fire going, with the temp on the door reading 300-400 the fan will kick on and run for a while, then kick off.  Is there a problem with the temp pickups or a fan issue with these?  It moves a ton of air, and only makes a little bit of noise *I had a rattle when first installed, but fixed it*  It really puts the heat out there but only with the fan on, and its getting cold and WINDY!



I put the thermometer at the top of the arch of the door, and I see similar temperatures to you, 400 is about as high as I've ever gotten it, and I average 325-350 for the most part over a burn...I would say the fan usually kicks on when the temp is around 200, but to be honest I've never really watched; it's usually after about 20 minutes that it kicks on and once I get the stove up to 300+ I turn the fan up...

My fan is pretty loud, and it really doesn't seem to push a ton of air, so I don't know if that's normal or what, it'd be good see someone elses Monteplier running to see if my fan is weak or what...


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## Wildman_fab

Mine pushes a fair amount of air, when it stays on.... Its running at 350-375 right now and it only stays on for a few minutes at best, then shuts off for a few minutes. 
My other question, was about the fan assembly. Is it supposed to be anchored down somehow? Or does it just kinda float around above the piece of sheet metal on the bottom and the underside of the body of the stove? I cleaned my fan screens off and noticed that I can move it and change how it 'rattles' :lol: I was also concerned how it hooked up to the 'duct work' behind the stove, if it moves too much in my mind it might not be attached after a while and then it wouldn't move air at all!


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## canboy

I am now on my second year of heating with the Montpelier.  The first year was a little frustrating until I learned how to operate it properly.  I am now a very big fan of the Montpelier and find it extremely difficult to drag myself away from watching the fire and enjoying the heat.  Following are some general comments and some thoughts about problems recently raised.

Fan Noise: The fan is attached to a fairly flimsy housing.  The "ductwork" is light galvanized metal.  The exhaust from the fan is simply a flush mount against the "ductwork" opening.  With this setup, there can be a lot of potential rattles: fan against ductwork; ductwork against frame; ductwork against hearth; wires inside fan housing against the housing etc.  It is all quite easy to take apart, repack the wires so they don't rattle; wedge some inflammable gasket between the fan and the gavlanized metal; wedge some inflammable gasket between the galvanized metal and your hearth....etc.  There is a lot of trial and error here.  Sometimes all you need to do is give the fan a little nudge in a corner somewhere and it quiets down.  My fan now runs very quietly and I don't play with it anymore.

Fan Turning off and on: Once my stove gets up to operating temp about 30 mins. in, the fan turns on and stays on until the fire is long out.  Then we get some cycling off and on but I am usually in bed at that point.  If it is cycling mid fire, I think your thermo switch may be loose or faulty.  Take the fan out and you will see how it is connected to the thermo switch.  You can unplug from the thermo switch, connect the wires to themselves and then the fan turns on and off whenever you want.  If you want to replace switch, it looks pretty easy to me.

Smoke on the front right of the door: Sounds like everyone has basically the same problem here.  If you get staining on the door, it comes first on the right side.  I have tried the dollar test and my gasket is very tight, so that is not the problem at least in my case.  The glass is so big that I think it would be very hard to have the glass stay permanently clean.  That being said, I now light very large fires, let them burn down to coals and then light another very large fire.  If the fire brick remains white then the glass stays pretty clean.  If the firebrick goes dark, I either had too small a fire, used lousy wood or didn't supply enough air and the glass starts to get dirty.  

Building the fire: Don't lie logs east-west directly in front of the 3 air supply holes.  This makes for a really starved fire.   Try putting bottom logs north-south not blocking the holes and if they are too long raise one end onto the ledge under the andirons;

Low Draft and Backdrafting: My chimney is only about 13.5 feet high from the hearth.  I am also on a  hill, close to water and lots of trees.  Downdrafts and low draw have been a problem.  Extending my chimney by another 3-4 feet would eliminate most of my problems but it is brick and will be a big job for next summer.  In the interim, I now have downdraft "preventor" chimney cap.  This has helped substantially.  I recognize that my chimney is less than spec but I think these EPA II units draw so little air that they are much more sensitive to downdrafts, short chimneys etc.


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## Wildman_fab

Yea I am thinking that I have a faulty temp sensor, its running at 400 deg now and still switching on and off. I will be taking it apart after it cools down and taking a look. I might just bypass it for now and run a direct line to a switch as we only run it on high.


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## YZF1R

Also, you may want to take a look at the temp sensor and make sure it is mounted correctly and making good contact. As stated in my last post, I removed it and the 6 inch wire harness and plugged the wires together.

Steve


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## av8roc

Wildman_fab said:
			
		

> Yea I am thinking that I have a faulty temp sensor, its running at 400 deg now and still switching on and off. I will be taking it apart after it cools down and taking a look. I might just bypass it for now and run a direct line to a switch as we only run it on high.



Something is definitely wrong there.   Mine kicks on after about 30-45 minutes and stays on until almost all coals are gone and its hardly blowing warm air.   It will cycle on and off for about an hour at that point.


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## Wildman_fab

Yea I took the day and did maintenance on the stove, cleaned it, cleaned the glass, tightened the door latch.  Took the blower out and it turns out most of the screws were falling off anyhow.  I cleaned the fan, and remounted it. I removed the temp switch and plugged the wired together, works mint! I pulled the temp switch to replace it if I ever wanted to. Got it fired up and its put out heat better today than it has in the 3 months we have owned it!


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## patahdays

We just bought a new house and are considering either the VC Montpelier insert or the Jotul Rockland insert.  Our new living room has cathedral ceilings and large windows, so we're hoping to generate some good heat from an insert.  We had a VC Encore in the house that we just sold and we loved it.  We do not, however, have the clearance for a traditional woodstove in the new house.  I am concerned about the Montpelier hinges after reading everyone's postings.  Does anyone have any advice about the Montpelier vs. the Jotul Rockland?  I've read that the Rockland smokes when a fire is started.  We're trying to make this decision asap, as it would take several weeks to have a Montpelier delivered.  Thank you!!


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## WoodNewbie

I have a Rockland installed last August, so this is our first year using it (and first year using wood at all): so far, no smoke...even when we start a fire. Obviously I can't comment on the VC Montpelier. I like my Jotul though.


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## patahdays

Thank you -- I appreciate that reply.   Does the Rockland throw a good amount of heat?


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## canboy

I suspect the smoke problems you read wrt the Rockland have more to do with the wood, the chimney and the operator than it has to do with the stove.  In the same circumstance, the same issues would apply to the Montpelier.  I am on my second season with the Montpelier and don't think the hinges are an issue.  I think your decision boils down your preference in appearance and your perception wrt to the reliability of the manufacturer and your supplier.


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## patahdays

Good to hear that the hinges have not been an issue.  We've been so happy with our Vermont Castings stove, so we are going into things leaning toward another VC.  I also really like the large viewing area.


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## Wildman_fab

I have not had an issue with my stoves hinges, The glass viewing area is very large compared to some of the other inserts out there, which is a HUGE bonus for the wife appeal. :D


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

Hello, I'm new to the forums, new to the Montpelier, but not necessarily new to wood burning.

In our previous house we had a Quadrafire 4300 which worked excellent.  Unless we had wet wood we never needed the stove damper set anywhere other than it's lowest setting.  However, I learned with that stove the difference that good wood makes.

We moved to a different house with fireplaces and I just put in a Montpelier.  As long as we've got good wood it works.

The we just ran through a cold snap that brought highs in the single digits and lows a tad below zero.   There was also a slight breeze. The stove barely kept the house warm, hardly keeping the room it was in over 70.  

Of course in true scientific fashion - I changed a bunch of variables at once!  I adjusted the bolt plate on the front door because we were getting a horrible draft in.  Now the door closes tight and there is no draft.  The wind seemed to have died down yesterday.  And I told my family to operate the insert with the damper open a little more.  I came home from work and the house was toasty warm!

One thing I noticed that was missing was any advice to seal the connection from the chimney liner to the insert.  My liner adapter has a long crimped section.  Due to the cross-bar that runs across the flue connector on the insert the liner adapter cannot be pushed in all the way to the base of the crimp as you would normally do with stove pipe.  I noticed this made for up to a 1/2" gap around the stainles steel chimney liner and between the cast iron flue connector.  I bought some fiber glass stove gasket from Ace and jammed it in the gap with a screw driver.

This made a HUGE difference in the stove's performance!

I'll say that again.

THIS MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE STOVE'S PERFORMANCE!

What was happening was the gap between connector and liner provided a circumvention of the draft.  When the stove was shut tight and the damper closed the path of least resistance quickly became that gap.  So instead of drawing fresh air through the stove & up the chimney it would draw fresh air in right at that gap and straight up the chimney.   The fire would burn but not very well.  Glass would darken, smoke would belch out into the room.  

Please, if you're experiencing these problems, after trying dry wood, check the connection from the liner to the stove.  

Other than that most of the other advice here I would reiterate.

Dry wood
Smaller pieces
Get it HOT in the beginning, then damper down
Dab wet cloth in the white ashes to clean off dark stains on glass (if you don't have the luxury of dry wood)
Expect to burn LOTS of wood.

I'm not sure what people mean when they say they're suprised at burning 1/3 to 1/2 a cord a week.  Is that face cord or pulp cord?  From our previous house I expect to burn 12 face cord a winter.  That would be heating almost entirely with wood and 24-7 since my wife and kids stay home.  The wood will take up some space in the yard - but that was planned for when we purchase the house.  Right now most of my wood is still standing in the forest.  This is our first year heating with wood in this house so I'll be working hard to get us through this winter and then start making wood for future winters.  

My question for the board is where does the unit pull in it's combustion air?

The fireplace it is in has an ash trap that leads directly outside.  I drilled some vent holes in the clean out door and there is a mighty strong draft there.  However, that draft seems to be present even when the stove is cold w/ no fire at all.  The draft at the cleanout door remains strong regardless of the position of the damper.

I've turned the fan off and lit a match by the bottom grates.  There is a substantial draft there.  So I have no clue whether it's drawing in room air or outside air.  I should mention that I made a flush-fit surround and sealed it to the stone with mortar so there should be very little communication between the room air and that ash cleanout other than through the unit. 

I'd like to get the outside air kit and set it up to draw from that ash clean out.  I think that would improve the heat output greatly but I am not sure.  Maybe it's not necessary the way I have it set up.


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## patahdays

That is TERRIFIC information.  We just printed it all out to keep and refer to when we install the stove.  Can't begin to tell you (and the others who have replied) how helpful this is.  Will save us a lot of time and headaches to learn from your experience.  THANK YOU.


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## canboy

Black Jaque:
1) Regarding the gap on your flue connection.  umm, I think you should get a professional in to look at that connection.  You think it was drawing air through that gap.  Conversely, in a downdraft situation, smoke would be coming out.  Something is wrong here.  Patching it may  not be enough.

2) If I remember correctly, the attachment for the fresh air supply is a cutout into the galvanized shell on the right right side of the stove (alternatively on the left).   Therefore I believe the air supply comes in the side, is preheated in the shell and then enters the stove thru the 3 holes under the andirons, secondary air pipes, and the air wash above the door.


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## YZF1R

Black Jaque, if there is that much of a gap on the flue connection, I would saw the crimped end off shorter. If you would have pushed it in after removing the cross bar, it probably would have gone in so far as to go against the baffle, shutting off the draft. In the directions, the cross bar is to be used as a handle to reach up and pull the liner (after it's been connected to the adapter and the stove slid in place) with adapter onto the stove and connect it from inside the stove. This is to help those with a smaller fireplace who may have trouble getting their hands in there to connect it externally. It states you may saw it out if you want to. It's also supposed to keep a brush from slamming down into the stove when cleaning the flue from the top down. 

On a side note, the little wheels in the back make for an easy slide in install. The stove really does have some well thought out features.

Steve


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

Thanks guys.

Canboy, actually, I think there's a better seal with the gasket than there would be if the adapter crimp was the proper length.  Most stove pipe connections are just tight-fit they aren't really sealed.

YZF1R, I read that part about the handle being optional.  I elected to leave it in place specifically because it acted as a guard to protect the top baffle.  After examining the baffle, I could easily see myself smacking it with the brush.

However, in hindsight, I think your idea would have worked since removing the baffle prior to cleaning is simple enough.


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## jasonmkern

I've had my Montpelier in for about a week now.  I'm new to wood burning for heat and have learned a lot about how to operate my stove.  I have it installed in one of 3 fireplaces in a 3400 sq ft 2 story house built in 1885.  I had a 40ft insulated liner and chimney cap installed.  My wood supply so far has been questionable.  Some dry stuff, some too green, and some partially rotted.  Basically, I've been scrounging whatever I can find as I got the idea to put the insert in too late in the year to build up any sort of supply.  Also, the only means I have of splitting is a 8lb maul that I'm not real good with (yet), so I try to get away with not splitting.  Here's what I've found that may be useful to other first timers:

1)  I've never had a drop of smoke enter the house even when opening the door with the firebox full of smoke.  I open it slowly and the smoke is sucked right up the chimney.  From what my chimney sweep says, it's all about the liner.  Put one in  and you'll have no problems, without one, it's a gamble in a variety of ways.

2)  Crappy wood = low heat output.  When I stumble across decent wood that is either small diameter (3-4"), or I've managed to split without injuring myself, it will really throw the heat!  After one exceptionally good fire, the downstairs of the house was at 76 and the upstairs was working on getting toasty.

3)  Crappy wood= smokey glass.  Hot fire barely gets any soot on the glass.

4)  With a full load of half way dry wood loaded around 10pm, I still have pleny of hot coals and some heat at 6am.

5)  Fan is noisey on High, but no more than my forced air gas furnace, plus it puts the baby to sleep.  On low it hums, but the blues playing on the radio easily drowns it out.

6)  No hinge issues at all.

Going to cheat this weekend and buy a load of seasoned and split ash.  .  .  Don't feel like splitting wood in the snow!


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## pnear

Yay, I just got my new Montpelier installed yesterday and am running my first fire this morning.

This is my first high-efficiency fire and what I haven't been able to figure out is what a "normal" fire should look like.  I'm at the point now where I have a nice bed of red coals, with a few small orange flames coming up from the wood.  It's plenty hot, and blowing out good hot air into the room. (See picture).

The air control is about 75% closed, fan on medium.

Also, the fan has a pretty loud electrical/magnetic hum when on low so I've been running it on medium which seems like a good balance of electrical hum vs air noise.  Based on postings this seems normal, but thought I'd double check in case my fan's about to explode. ;-)

Finally, I asked earlier if anyone had a Brown Caprice.  After calls all the way into the VC head office, I've confirmed that despite what the brochure says they're not making a Caprice Trim in brown.  So we went with the Mead trim in brown.

Thanks,
Pete


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## canboy

PNEAR: Regarding your question on what a normal fire should look like. Following is my opinion.  I try to maintain a fire at the lowest air supply that will keep the brick white and glass clean.  Logs will spontaneously ignite in areas that are not even close to the flame.  The flames will be gently rolling and whispy, not flickering as if affected by wind.  To me that is a hot, clean burning fire.  

At the beginning of the fire that is a bit difficult to do, but once it gets going that is the objective.  Wet wood and/or too little draft make this objective near impossible to achieve.


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## pnear

So, some bad news from my first burn I fear.  I lit the fire with some bagged wood from a local landscaping shop.  It burned great, then I added some wood from a cord that was recently delivered.  It was advertised as seasoned, and the guy who delivered swore it had been sitting for at least a year.  He even made a push for the next load saying "repeat customers get extra" to which I replied "if it burns well, I'll be calling you".  So, anyways after putting a couple logs on from the new cord the glass started to blacken and the flames started to die.

Now I'm stuck with a face cord of what appears to be not-so-great wood.  Anything I can do to help?  I'm mostly a weekend burner, so could bring enough wood for the weekend inside for a week if that would help it to dry out.  Or should I just find an inconspicuous spot to pile it for next year (I live in the city) and get a load from a different supplier for this year?

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
Pete


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## canboy

Pnear, some thoughts on your not so dry wood:  Try splitting into smaller splits.  It will burn easier in the stove.  You need dry wood to get the fire going initially.  After that, your  not so dry wood should catch on the remaining coals.  Crack the door open if it is not igniting and eventually, you should get flames and the wood will burn.  You will probably have to give it more air than usual.  A lot of the energy will be wasted evaporating the moisture so don't expect too much heat.

If you can actually get some dry wood, you can mix the two together and not do too badly.  I think no matter what you buy, you will find it best to make smaller splits out of what you receive from the seller.


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## Wildman_fab

Make sure you have a good ROLLING fire in there, with lots of coals before you throw more logs in! Then after you do leave the door open a crack for a while (about 15min) to let the stove realy work on the larger logs.  

I would say without seeing the wood pile try to get some (1/2 cord) of really good dry stuff. Then burn that while keeping a pile of the 'green' stuff right next to the stove on the hearth. I find after about 5-7 days the semi dry stuff will be nice and dry to burn, while mixing in the REALLY dry stuff.  Dont get discouraged so quickly, I have been burning wood my whole life and I can honestly say the learning curve on these inserts is quite different than a regular stove!


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## Fod01

PNEAR - I agree with re-splitting.  I bought wood last season, and after a month or so of disappointing performace, re-split most of it.  
A couple other points I've learned:  

-Try not to be too quick closing down the air after a re-load.  I wait for the flames to envelope the top of the load before I think about moving the lever.  It may seem like a waste of wood, but you'll get a hotter fire, faster.
- don't put cold wood on a hot fire.  After a re-load, I bring the next load in from the garage and put it in a container by the hearth.  
- try supplementing with some dry pallet wood
-load criss-cross if you need to.  This allows more space between the splits.

It's a good stove.  Enjoy!
Gabe


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## pnear

Quick update, thanks for the tips.

Today I fired it up again starting with some dry wood (seasoned and palette wood) and then threw on some smaller splits from the wet wood.  Let the wet wood catch for about 15 minutes, then closed the door and left the air wide open for the entire burn.  It burned, but it wasn't nearly as satisfying as when I had it really rockin' yesterday with all seasoned wood.  Still haven't decided what to do with that load, will probably keep using it over the holidays and then make the call.

I cleaned the black off the glass, which was a chore.  I tried wet newspaper with ash, which didn't take off much more than just the thinnest of sections.  I tried a few other items, and after realizing that the abrasives seemed to be working the best I switched to Comet.  That took it off really easily.

Something of note for now, may get concerned later - the right-hand side of the glass got much dirtier than the rest.  Even with today's fire, the glass is mostly clean but with a brown glaze on the right 1/4 of the glass near the hinge.  I wonder if there is some leakage on the hinge side.

Thanks again for the help,
Pete


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

If you're burning an entire load with the damper wide open you're guess about wet wood is probably spot-on.  I've heard many folks say that 1 entire year ain't enough to season wood.  Some of this depends on what the wood is exposed to.  Sun, wind and just enough tarp to cover the top of the stack should season it the quickest.  

Some folks leave it uncovered.  The rain and snow just seeps into the wood.  Some folks cover it too much and the tarp prevents the wind from drying it, and often will hold moisture in, or even trap moisture that rises from the ground.

So, just guaranteeing that the wood has been "seasoned" for a full year may be truthful, but may not be sufficient to produce quality burnable wood.  

If you don't have the space to keep 1-2 years worth of wood on hand, you have to use someone else's space.  Like cheese and wine, each year they season increases the cost.  Pretty soon it's comparable to heating with gas or oil.

I should add that poor draft could also be contributing to the problem.  Obviously you proved that with the right wood your Montpelier worked great.  But with a poor draft it can make marginal wood perform really poorly.

In my previous posts, I noted that my liner adapter did not fit tight to the stove's flue connector.  This circumvented the draft allowing the flue to draw cold air directly into the chimney without going through the burn box first.


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## neilbaum

Hello- new to this
This is my second season with the Montpelier
I live in a ranch and although the burner works well, I don't get to heat
1500 sq feet as the instructions say, only about 800 when the weather gets down in the 40's
any thoughts?


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## canboy

Neilbaum: There is tons of good information in this thread to help ensure that you are running the stove properly.  At 40 degrees you should be able to easily heat a 1500sqft house.  It is currently 10 degrees where I am and I heating my 1500 sqft bungalow with the Montpelier.  Admittedly, the outer rooms on the house are quite cool (65 degrees) in comparison to the open area where the stove is(72 degrees).   So I am going to assume that you are having good hot fires, your wood is dry, you are giving it lots of air, the fan is running and the bricks are white once the fire is very well established and continues as the fire dies down.

Then you are left solving house leakage, insulation or air distribution problems.  I would start evaluating whether I have enough insulation in the walls and ceilings.  Make sure doors, windows, attic entrances etc. are properly sealed when closed.   If your house is "open concept" then heat distribution should be good.  But getting the heat down hallways and thru doorways naturally, is difficult.  I run my central air furnace fan on low all the time to get "some" distribution.  I could get more with little doorway fans etc., but I don't want all the noise.


----------



## neilbaum

I have white bricks, I follow all the information offered. My wood was purchased in June and was told it was seasoned then.

I get black at the hinge and a little at the door handle but it still feels sealed well
my fan makes some noise and fires up after a 1/2 hour

I have the fireplace in a room that was newly insulated and enlarged. It is the coldest room now because of the 12'ceiling and
the rest of the house with 7' . I also have my furnace intake with forced air 20' away from the unit.My attic is newly reinsulated


I have 2 3' openings leaving the den to the rest of the house-one goes past the front door
I feel like the area gets warm and in cold days never leaves the first room
Do you know anyone with success blowing it around with a small fan in the wall?


----------



## canboy

Neilbaum: Sounds to me like you are running the stove properly and your wood is sufficiently dry.   Though proper drying can take a 2-3 years depending on where and how it is stacked.  Make sure that you are using hardwood or at least a mix.  Heat output from hardwood can be double what you are getting out of softwood(if that is what you are burning).

If your outer rooms are 5-10 degrees less than the room with the stove, I would not be surprised.  I personally don't know of anyone who gets really good distribution by using little fans or thru the wall units.  I tried it one year to get heat out a stove in a basement up onto the main floor.  It got a small amount of air up but the sound transmission between rooms was so good that we might as well have all been sitting in the same room - not to mention the annoying drone of the fan.

It sounds to me like a lot of your heat is sitting at the top of your 12 foot ceilings.  A ceiling fan would help balance the room temperature.  Another idea would be to move your furnace return air to the ceiling in that room (instead of the floor).  This would pull the hottest air into central air system, thereby distributing it to all the rooms in the house (if you run the fan all the time).  NOTE: I would want to try a temporary version of this with some cheap tin ducting to see if it works, before framing it all in and making it look nice.

Suggest you download (free) the Guide to Residential Wood Heating.  It has tons of good useful information.

https://www03.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/catalog/productDetail.cfm?csid=1&cat=3&itm=94&lang=en&fr=1261695659099


----------



## neilbaum

canboy

thanks for the help the site is a good one
I have a ceiling fan, but I think you are correct about the air staying at 12' and not moving out of the room
the duct work sounds like a good idea, but I will have to consider it
have a good holiday and I will keep trying to improve the circulation


----------



## Chip Brown

Smacker said:
			
		

> We just had the Montpelier installed. We ordered the outside air kit but our installer said we didn't need it. Hope he is right. We've had two "break-in fires" and our glass has a light amber coating inside also. We finally got the unit hot enough that the blower would kick on and don't ya know the thing is loud! Really hums on low and sounds like something is in the blower. Our installer is coming out to check it out. Hope it is an easy fix because they had a difficult time installing it.
> Looking forward to offsetting the oil bill this winter.



The blower on the Montpelier can rattle, they (VC) has corrected the problem at the factory but for those of you who have a noisy blower.  Ask your dealer to contact tech support at their distributor, the fix is very simple and effective.  The use of a couple lengths of gasket slipped under the blower will dampen the vibration and eliminate the noise.  Good luck and stay warm


----------



## av8roc

Here's a pic of my smokey glass.   I have been burning 24/7 since I cleaned the glass 3 days ago.   I suspect wood could be part of the culprit but you can clearly see the hinges on the top right are not allowing a good seal.

Otherwise I am really happy with the unit and it does a great job of heating both floors of my relatively small cape.


----------



## Chip Brown

The Glass doesn't look bad, depends on your burn temp.  Remember the air supplied to the stove for combustion is what keeps the glass clean.  If your burning a bit slower in the evening the glass will get dirty, crank it up a bit first thing in the am for about 1/2 hour to 45 min and this will clean the glass pretty well.  All that said your glass is not that bad, you will get some build up each day you burn and depending on the wood and the temp you run the stove will dictate how dirty or clean you glass may be.  Expect to have to clean the glass with a "hearth glass clear" about once a week to keep it looking good.

If your concerned about your door leaking air and disrupting the air wash i would suggest going to your location corner store and getting a stick of incense.  Start the stove with a good bit of kindling and once you have a good fire burning take the incense stick light it and run it along the edges of the door.  If you have leakage the smoke stream from the incense will be drawn into the stove and allow you to locate you problem.


----------



## ernie

That glass looks good to me.


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

Glass looks good.  But I've seen better.

I think you're correct that there may be a leak along the hinge side.  Have you tried the dollar-bill test?

My glass used to look like that.  I believe I've since gotten better at sorting wet from dry wood.  I also run it at 7/8 closed.  This seems to keep the glass really clean, like only a 3/4-inch band of brown on the bottom.  After a number of days I have to clean the white ash off the middle part of the glass.


----------



## av8roc

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> Glass looks good.  But I've seen better.
> 
> I think you're correct that there may be a leak along the hinge side.  Have you tried the dollar-bill test?
> 
> My glass used to look like that.  I believe I've since gotten better at sorting wet from dry wood.  I also run it at 7/8 closed.  This seems to keep the glass really clean, like only a 3/4-inch band of brown on the bottom.  After a number of days I have to clean the white ash off the middle part of the glass.



Yep, failed the dollar bill and incense test.   I've been so busy lately but today I have to call the dealer and take the next step.   Will let you guys know what happens.


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

It could be that tightening up the door seal is all you need.  The air leak lets cool air in and blows directly on the glass.  This cools the glass.  Cool surfaces are what creosote condenses on.  

If the only way for air to get into these units is through the designed pathways, the air gets pre-heated before entering the burn box.  This is particularly true for the glass-wash function hot air keeps the glass clean.


----------



## av8roc

Black Jaque Janaviac said:
			
		

> It could be that tightening up the door seal is all you need.  The air leak lets cool air in and blows directly on the glass.  This cools the glass.  Cool surfaces are what creosote condenses on.
> 
> If the only way for air to get into these units is through the designed pathways, the air gets pre-heated before entering the burn box.  This is particularly true for the glass-wash function hot air keeps the glass clean.



Not sure what you mean by tightening the door seal.   I adjusted the nut on the door latch but that didn't help seal the hinge side of the glass at all.    

I can confirm what you said about the air leak with my IR gun.    When the middle of the glass is in the 550 degree range the hinge side corner with the creosote built up is only registering in the neighborhood of 250 degrees.    

I guess I could try to beef up the gasket on the hinge side but I will wait and see what dealer has to say first.


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

"I guess I could try to beef up the gasket on the hinge side but I will wait and see what dealer has to say first. "

You're on the right path.


----------



## portkins

Av8roc   I am looking to get the Montpelier.  Your photo looks like a cross between a matt black and gloss.
I think the matt is too flat and the gloss is too shiny.  Which one do you have?


----------



## fmer55

that is most certainly the matte black.......i actually went for the biscuit, i was scared at first but it is a beauty. but i was putting it against black painted brick


----------



## jfournier

I'm about ready to give up on my Montpelier. My house is 1300 square feet and the thing can't even get the stove room above 68 degrees, even though the thermometer on the door is reading over 350 F and I'm getting seemingly good burns.

Does that sound normal?  The glass stays clean for me for weeks, and it seems to burn hot, but a lot of the heat just doesn't seem to be coming out.  The top of my chimney around the liner is sealed, but I don't have a block-off plate at the bottom...I'm going to put one in this spring, and if that doesn't help I'm going to have to cut my losses and sell it and get the $1500 tax credit on a new stove, I guess one that's way over-sized for my house...


----------



## Wildman_fab

I had the exact same situation when first I installed mine. Find some dry wood. I can barley get mine over 350deg with semi dry stuff. With dry stuff while running wide open, I have gone WELL into the 'overburn' part of the thermometer. Also what are you seeing for burn times? If I used dry stuff and loaded the stove up at 10pm by 6-7AM I have a NICE bed of coals that I just have to shake up and throw another log on there. With semi dry wood I was seeing alot of charcoal and not many red coals. I have a drafty old ranch house, with a closed off upstairs and I can get close to 70 in the house if its not super windy outside. 

Heres a hint, take a few splits that you already have and stack them 'Lincoln log style' next to the stove while its burning. Let them sit there a week or so and then see how they burn. I have found I can loose 10% more moisture or so just by doing this.


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

> The top of my chimney around the liner is sealed, but I don’t have a block-off plate at the bottom…



Light a match and hold the flame by the gaps around the surround.  I'll bet you'll find a hefty draft sucking room air out the chimney.

My family just returned from a trip out of town in which we allowed the fire to die out and the house was being kept warm by the boiler.  My wife has a small clock next to her chair in the living room which also tells the temp.  Last winter, before we had the insert, that clock never reached above 63*.  Now, just by simply _installing_ the insert her clock read 68* which is what the thermostat was set at!

I'm convinced that sealing the flue made the difference.


----------



## fmer55

here is a pic of the biscuit if interested......the one thing that i have found is it has stayed extremely clean, it is my first stove/insert so i wasnt sure what to expect.well so much for that, cant ge the pic to send. as for your heat problems i would be willing ot bet it is your wood. i bought wood 2 months ago, sits uncovered and has been wet, two weeks ago i moved about a 1/4 cord into the garage, let it sit for ten days and whala.....went from 68 to 71. a lot of convenience stores sell kiln dried wood, it is expensive, but probably get enough for 20 bucks for a test run, if not i would bet on the draft, i don't know why people dont install the block plate the first time, do they think everyone is lying? buying an efficient stove, you might as well make your chimney efficien as well......


----------



## jfournier

I don't think draft is an issue for me, as I believe the stove is burning hot and clean...

I had the stove installed in fall of '08, before I ever saw this site or learned about block off plates...I've since asked the dealer who installed the stove if they could do a block off plate, and they told me it was unnecessary since the chimney is sealed at the top and so the stove will heat up the chimney but once it's heated the rest of the heat will come out the front. He said he'd do a block off plate for 300 bucks if I really wanted to, and I told him no.

I'll make one myself when it starts warming up a bit, and hopefully that'll do the trick.


----------



## diodeduster

I have learned alot since last year when i had my montpelier installed. first the bricks above the insert never got hot due too the fact that the installer never installed a block off plate so this past summer i went too the scrap yard and picked up a piece of stainless steel about 1/8 thick and pulled the insert out and installed it what a difference. the bricks above the insert now get hot and heat pours out of the sides of my mead surround. The insert likes dry and well seasoned wood  split not to big for it to run hot and to keep the glass clean. Once i get a fire going and a good bed of coals i shut the draft down about 3/4 closed and keep it there. I also find that stove needs to be cleaned out every 12 hours or so for the blower to run longer and for it to put out better heat.


----------



## Chip Brown

jfournier said:
			
		

> I'm about ready to give up on my Montpelier. My house is 1300 square feet and the thing can't even get the stove room above 68 degrees, even though the thermometer on the door is reading over 350 F and I'm getting seemingly good burns.
> 
> Does that sound normal?  The glass stays clean for me for weeks, and it seems to burn hot, but a lot of the heat just doesn't seem to be coming out.  The top of my chimney around the liner is sealed, but I don't have a block-off plate at the bottom...I'm going to put one in this spring, and if that doesn't help I'm going to have to cut my losses and sell it and get the $1500 tax credit on a new stove, I guess one that's way over-sized for my house...



Couple questions for you.

1.  Have you had your dealer come to inspect the stove and installation.
2.  Is your wood truly seasoned
3.  Are you running the blower
4.  Do you have access to a heat gun to measure the temps of the heated air leaving the convection area above the door.
5.  How tall is your chimney
6.  Are you filling the stove with a full charge of wood
7.  How old is you home and would you consider it well insulated
8.  How are your windows


----------



## jfournier

Chip said:
			
		

> Couple questions for you.
> 
> 1.  Have you had your dealer come to inspect the stove and installation.
> 2.  Is your wood truly seasoned
> 3.  Are you running the blower
> 4.  Do you have access to a heat gun to measure the temps of the heated air leaving the convection area above the door.
> 5.  How tall is your chimney
> 6.  Are you filling the stove with a full charge of wood
> 7.  How old is you home and would you consider it well insulated
> 8.  How are your windows



1. I have not had the dealer come out to look at it. I talk with him whenever I'm in his area and have the time, so it shouldn't be hard to get him out.
2. My wood is pretty well seasoned. I'm burning mostly 3+ year old oak, feels really dry and like I said before, the stove consistently runs over 350 F at the top of the door, never getting higher than 400 F.
3. I run the blower, usually at 3/4 to full speed, and sometimes it barely feels like a trickle. The problem there is I don't know how much air I should feel when it's at full speed
4. I don't have a heat gun but I'll consider it. Do you mean an infrared temp gun? I'd like to have one of those anyway...
5. The stove is in a ranch, so it's a single story. The exterior brick chimney runs about 4-5' higher than my roof. The chimney has a cap, and a side screen (holes are about 2" wide and 1" high, and clear of creosote). All told I'd guess the liner runs 12 to 15 feet, judging by my sweeping rods
6. I have tried burning many different ways in this stove. I can do a full load of small (2") splits loaded e/w, a full load mixed larger (4") and smaller splits loaded e/w, and I've also done n/s with short cut blocks of wood, again a mix of diameters. I usually get about 3-4 hours of flames, and the door will stay above 300 degrees for about 5 hours or so
7. My house is about 40 years old, and is not the best insulated. I had an energy audit done and there was a lot of room for improvement in terms of airflow (house requires 900 CFM of air max, they were able to push 1800 before sealing, 1600 after).  The attic is fairly well insulated (about 10" of insulation)
8. My windows are original double hung and have storm windows.  They are not particularly drafty, though it probably wouldn't hurt to put that shrink wrap on. I have a wall-unit air conditioner and put that over the front, couldn't believe the difference (on a windy night we can hear the plastic getting pushed around, so that unit lets way too much in)

My main problem is that I feel I am burning a good, hot fire in the stove, and that the stove just isn't pushing enough heat out into the room, relative to how hot I know the fire to be.  I understand the relative draftiness of my house doesn't help things, but sometimes the stove can't even heat my ~300 square foot stove room above 66 degrees, even with the stove cooking at 400 F at the door.  Like I said before too, the top of the chimney is sealed with a metal plate, with caulking all around, so it's an air tight seal, but before we had the surround installed I had some fires and could feel quite a lot of very warm air up above the stove, in the chimney.

Sorry for the long-windedness, but hopefully that's all the facts.


----------



## canboy

JFournier:
I think it sounds like the wood is dry and your burning methods are good.  Some thoughts and questions:
1) You could stuff Roxul between the liner and the flue at the base of the chimney...much easier than installing a block off plate and you don't have to wait for spring - make sure that meets local fire regulations.  I think you are definitely losing heat up the chimney, especially since it is an external chimney;
2) Consider tightening and insulating the house, replacing windows - I think you are losing a ton of heat thru leakage;
3) Remove the blower and confirm that the unit blows well in your hand.  Make sure the air channels underneath the stove are clear and then reinstall the blower.  My blower blows less air than it sounds like it should, so maybe yours is fine. 
4) If your original fireplace was a heat recirculating unit, make sure that the upper and lower vents are clear to allow heat from inside the firebox to get into the room;

As a baseline, at 10 degrees F, I can heat my 1500 sq. ft. home.  The open area of about 1000 sq ft would be about 72 degrees and the bedroom area down the hall would be closer to 65 degrees.  This is a 30 yr old well insulated and sealed home and I am burning mostly dry softwood.

I really don't think the stove is your problem.

Good luck.


----------



## Lynn0101

I've been reading this thread concerning a seemingly good burn/hot stove/clean glass/dry wood... yet still a cold house.  Boy, does this sound like my situation too!  After reading all of the great suggestions concerning drafts from leaking windows, etc. I plan on buying a ton of window insulation supplies this weekend and seal up the drafts as much as possible in my circa. 1870 2 story house. I did try holding a lit match next to the sides of the insert but did not notice any 'pull' of the flame... I keep my furnace thermostat at 58 degrees so it will turn on if necessary, I don't want frozen pipes... I can tell you, though, that although the room the insert is in can get as high at 70 degrees that is a rare occurance... upstairs, when I check the thermometer I actually think a 55 degree reading is 'balmy'... I live in Western Massachusetts and it is very cold out here!  I generally wear 2 shirts and a jacket arount the house... I had such high hopes of being toasty warm when I bought the insert a year ago last fall....    oh, the insert's flue runs up an exterior stone chimney.  I just had the flexible chimney liner professionally cleaned last week and the fellow said that there was very little creosote buildup and everything looked great... 

On a different note: I purchased an electric log splitter from Northern Tool and I am THRILLED with how easy it is to use and how nice and "small" I can make the splits!  I would recommend it to anyone!  I had compared other brands at local stores but none had the heft and sturdy 'feel' to them like the one I bought online.


----------



## canboy

For those who feel they aren't getting enough air from the fan....  I tried a little experiment today and I think the results were positive.  The fan does not make a tight connection with the "ductwork" under the stove - it is just a flush fit.  So, a lot of the air that was intended to go thru the ductwork never gets there. It escapes around the edges and generates wind noise at the blower unit.  If you turn on the fan and then push the fan unit towards the back of the stove (it will only move about a quarter inch), you should notice that some of the air noise disappears and you get more volume out the exit ducts above the stove.  So, I wedged a short piece of 3/4 inch copper pipe between the fan unit and the oval "emblem" at the bottom center of the stove.  When you close the fan door no one can see the pipe and the fan is now held tightly against the ductwork.   The increased volume raised my room temperature by about 3 degrees F in 30 minutes.


----------



## Lynn0101

Here's a follow-up on my previous post concerning weather stripping the windows and doors in my old drafty house to help the insert heat up the place better:
I caulked the downstairs windows and the cellar door over the weekend. (Some of the gaps in the window frames were pretty big... I should have done this a long time ago when I used to hear the windows rattle on a windy day!)... anyways, I have noticed an improvement in the amount of heat that can be felt in the room that the insert is in.  I also noted that the temperature of the insert is running 50-75 degrees hotter consistantly!  I am doing nothing different with the wood, etc.  These changes were noticed immediately and while still in the cold snap (so the outside temps were in the same range before and after).  I still have many windows to caulk upstairs. I will write back once my "experiment" is completed.


----------



## pnear

I now have a load of nicely seasoned wood, and it burns *much* better in my Montpelier.  I've been experimenting over the last few days with the optimum setting for the air intake, and I'm quite surprised to find that I can take it all the way down to closed (far right) and the fire continues to burn.  I was expecting it to go down to smoldering coals, but with a full load of wood all of the logs stay lit and I have a nice, hot, rolling fire.

Should I be concerned?  Or is the air control not a tight seal and the wood is just burning really well with the small amount of air that sneaks through?

Thanks,
Pete


----------



## canboy

PNEAR: I don't think you should be concerned.  The air control is not air tight and only alters the amount of air coming thru 3 openings above the glass, acting as an air wash to keep the glass clean.  The air supply thru the 3 holes at the bottom of the firebox and the secondary air tubes is unaffected by the adjustment of the air control.   If you have a nice clean burn, meaning that the brick is white and the glass is mostly clean and the fire is rolling, even with the air control closed, then I would say you are doing great.  Sounds like you have nice dry wood and a good draw on your chimney.


----------



## jfournier

canboy said:
			
		

> PNEAR: I don't think you should be concerned.  The air control is not air tight and only alters the amount of air coming thru 3 openings above the glass, acting as an air wash to keep the glass clean.  The air supply thru the 3 holes at the bottom of the firebox and the secondary air tubes is unaffected by the adjustment of the air control.   If you have a nice clean burn, meaning that the brick is white and the glass is mostly clean and the fire is rolling, even with the air control closed, then I would say you are doing great.  Sounds like you have nice dry wood and a good draw on your chimney.



I was under the impression that the air wash air is what comes out through the 3 holes at the bottom...i saw some video about how the non-cat epa stoves work, and the air entering at the top, being cooler than the gasses in the firebox, immediately sink to the bottom of the firebox, running over the glass on the way, and then down into the fire...

Can anyone explain where the 3 air holes get fed from, if not from the air wash?  It's weird, because I take the andirons and the brick off, and there's just three holes that don't seem to be fed from anywhere in particular...


----------



## canboy

JFournier:  I can't say for certain where the air supply for the 3 holes at the bottom comes from.  But, the fresh air connection is on the side of the stove.  So, one might assume that all air comes from the sides and is preheated before entering the stove.  The air channel that supplies the 3 holes originates at the sides of the stove.

I read an interesting article in a Drolet wood stove manual today, to help people determine if their wood is dry enough.  Thought people might be interested in reading it:

TESTING YOUR WOOD 
When the stove is thoroughly warmed, place one piece of split wood (about five inches in 
diameter) parallel to the door on the bed of red embers. 

Keep the air control full open by pulling on it and close the door.  If ignition of the piece is 
accomplished within 90 seconds from the time it was placed in the stove, your wood is 
correctly dried.  If ignition takes longer, your wood is damp. 

If your wood hisses and water or vapour escapes at the ends of the piece, your wood is 
soaked or freshly cut.  Do not use this wood  in your stove.  Large amounts of creosote 
could be deposited in your chimney, creating potential conditions for a chimney fire.


----------



## canboy

JFournier: I found a diagram(attached) on the Napoleon Wood Stove website that clearly shows the air flow for the primary air, secondary air and air-wash on a non catalytic woodstove.  This would be essentially the same as for the Montpelier, except that I think that the air supply in the Montpelier goes up the sides and not the back of the stove(but I can't be certain).


----------



## av8roc

Been rather warm here in NY so last night around 10p I threw 1 last log on for the night and went to bed.   About 7 am the fire was down to a few embers and the fan was kicking on an off.    I let it go out today as I knew it was going to get up over 50 here.

Tonight at about 8 pm I opened up the insert and raked some larger coals forward and I was surprised to find it was still warm inside with a few very small embers buried in the ash.   I threw a couple of large splits in thinking I may want to get it going tonight at some point if the temp in the house drops.    I was shocked 20 mins later to find a roaring fire going.    

Thats about 22 hours later without paper or starter and I wasn't even trying to get it going.   Not bad!


----------



## kortynaa

Help...I purchased a VC Montpelier insert about 10 days ago. It exhibits every symptom of low draft possible: it's hard to start, it's hard to keep burning, it releases smoke into the room, the glass is always dirty, the stove produces little heat, and the fire is always "leazy" even though the air control is wide open. This list goes on.

I had the flue checked, and we found that there is good draft when the stove door is open, and there's no sign of downdrafts on the roof. A visual inspection of the flue shows that it is clean and obstruction free (the flue liner is actually a brand-new stainless steel liner). This is the 4th wood stove that I've owned (the third VC), so I know how to operate a stove and what performance to expect. I live in a drafty house built in 1923, so that isn't  limiting the draft. 

Everything seems to point towards the stove being a lemon. Has anybody else had similar problems? Can anybody suggest a solution?


----------



## kortynaa

P.S., I had the moisture content of the wood tested, and it's within an acceptable range (between 5% and 15% water, depending on the piece), so the wood I'm burning isn't the problem.


----------



## BrowningBAR

hopeless said:
			
		

> P.S., I had the moisture content of the wood tested, and it's within an acceptable range (between 5% and 15% water, depending on the piece), so the wood I'm burning isn't the problem.




I believe, in order to get an accurate reading, you need to freshly split one of the existing splits and take a reading from the newly exposed side. Is this what you did?


----------



## kortynaa

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> hopeless said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S., I had the moisture content of the wood tested, and it's within an acceptable range (between 5% and 15% water, depending on the piece), so the wood I'm burning isn't the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe, in order to get an accurate reading, you need to freshly split one of the existing splits and take a reading from the newly exposed side. Is this what you did?
Click to expand...


You're right...it appears that we didn't get an accurate moister reading. I haven't re-tested the wood, but I located some drier wood and that made a big  difference. I guess it was silly of me to assume that wood sold as "seasoned wood" had actually been seasoned.


----------



## chuckda4th

Hey everyone...season's starting up again and I got an email from someone about to purchase a VC Montpelier and thought I'd post another thing I learned last year.

First off...last season ended up great.  Went through 1.5 cords no problem in the Philly burbs, and would have gone through another half cord VERY easily if I hadn't gone skiing up north/out west a few weekends and been away for work a few weeks.  My oil bills totaled about $350 all season compared to the ~$1000 they were the year before, so after increased "Main Line" wood costs, I still saved a few hundred dollars on heat last season, and more importantly to me, got to enjoy an intense fire every night.  Spent a lot of time with a beer in hand just staring at the thing.

I certainly *do not endorse* the following, but thought one thing I've found that no one else mentioned was that my fiance' spent $100 or so on a pair of *real* firefighter gloves as an xmas present for me that I absolutely love when used with the stove.  When wearing them I can reach in the stove and pick up a fully engulfed log and move it around as needed.  Beats the hell out of the poker/monster pliers combo.  Again...I don't endorse this at all .


----------



## diodeduster

chuck who installed your insert?  mine was installed by american chimney in 08 and they never installed a blockoff plate so i had to pull it out and install one which made a world of difference in the performance of the insert. i also had the sales rep out to replace the blower because american chimney would not honor any kind of warranty issues.


----------



## chuckda4th

diodeduster said:
			
		

> chuck who installed your insert?  mine was installed by american chimney in 08 and they never installed a blockoff plate so i had to pull it out and install one which made a world of difference in the performance of the insert. i also had the sales rep out to replace the blower because american chimney would not honor any kind of warranty issues.



Some place in Cheltenham, PA.  Forget the name.

Not sure if I have a blockoff plate, but its frankly warm enough as-is I'm not too worried about it.  I have to call a chimney sweep this week, so when he's working on it I'll have to ask him whether it has one.


----------



## allhandsworking

jfournier said:
			
		

> canboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PNEAR: I don't think you should be concerned.  The air control is not air tight and only alters the amount of air coming thru 3 openings above the glass, acting as an air wash to keep the glass clean.  The air supply thru the 3 holes at the bottom of the firebox and the secondary air tubes is unaffected by the adjustment of the air control.   If you have a nice clean burn, meaning that the brick is white and the glass is mostly clean and the fire is rolling, even with the air control closed, then I would say you are doing great.  Sounds like you have nice dry wood and a good draw on your chimney.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that the air wash air is what comes out through the 3 holes at the bottom...i saw some video about how the non-cat epa stoves work, and the air entering at the top, being cooler than the gasses in the firebox, immediately sink to the bottom of the firebox, running over the glass on the way, and then down into the fire...
> 
> Can anyone explain where the 3 air holes get fed from, if not from the air wash?  It's weird, because I take the andirons and the brick off, and there's just three holes that don't seem to be fed from anywhere in particular...
Click to expand...

intake holes are located inside fan doors about 2" out from the hinge and about 2" deep past the door!  This will be my fourth season with the Monti.  Air wash comes from secondary burn tubes that blow towards glass.


----------



## mjcarrjr

Hi all. 

First post! Have been reading for awhile and have learned so much. I had the Montpelier installed last march and only got a few fires in before the end of the season. Used some 'store bought' kiln dried wood And had no problems with the insert. My first time using any wood burning stove. 

Looking forward to some colder weather. Kind of glad to hear that people are having success with the insert.


----------



## allhandsworking

ESS said:
			
		

> Hi all.
> 
> First post! Have been reading for awhile and have learned so much. I had the Montpelier installed last march and only got a few fires in before the end of the season. Used some 'store bought' kiln dried wood And had no problems with the insert. My first time using any wood burning stove.
> 
> Looking forward to some colder weather. Kind of glad to hear that people are having success with the insert.


if you ever need help let me know!  I have some experience with this insert!  EPA stoves and inserts like really dry wood.  Your seasoned wood will be nothing like kiln dried!  Smaller splits about 3" burn better than larger.  Smaller splits allow you to load more also! (more heat)!  My fist season was not the best with subpar wood!  Stock up and you will have truely seasoned wood in years to come!  Good luck!


----------



## mrmoxie77

Hello all! New to the forum and learned a lot so far - planning to purchase the Montpelier very soon (wife's on the fence) and install myself.  A few questions first:
1. My flue dimensions are 6.5" X 10.5" X 20'. I want to put in a 6" smooth wall flex liner, but it'll be tight and I definitely won't have room for insulation.  Does insulating/wrapping the liner make a big difference? I'm hoping to stay away from "pour in" insulation - seems like a mess.
2. Has anyone placed the insert on bricks to raise it up? Dealer suggested it since the Mead surround will fall 2" short height wise.  Apparently the extended trim plates don't look so great, so I could either do a 2" riser plate or put in a piece of black slate to cover the bottom spacing.  Opinions?
3. How has heat distribution been? We live in a Colonial and I'm hoping the heat will get upstairs and migrate to the other rooms (8' ceilings everywhere).  Not looking to heat the whole house, just offset the propane use. 
4. Has anyone used the 3" extension kit?

Appreciate any feedback!


----------



## allhandsworking

mrmoxie77 said:
			
		

> Hello all! New to the forum and learned a lot so far - planning to purchase the Montpelier very soon (wife's on the fence) and install myself.  A few questions first:
> 1. My flue dimensions are 6.5" X 10.5" X 20'. I want to put in a 6" smooth wall flex liner, but it'll be tight and I definitely won't have room for insulation.  Does insulating/wrapping the liner make a big difference? I'm hoping to stay away from "pour in" insulation - seems like a mess.
> i have an interior chimney with no liner it drafts good.
> 
> 2. Has anyone placed the insert on bricks to raise it up? Dealer suggested it since the Mead surround will fall 2" short height wise.  Apparently the extended trim plates don't look so great, so I could either do a 2" riser plate or put in a piece of black slate to cover the bottom spacing.  Opinions?
> 
> It may be too heavy for bricks you may want to build hearth up.
> 
> 3. How has heat distribution been? We live in a Colonial and I'm hoping the heat will get upstairs and migrate to the other rooms (8' ceilings everywhere).  Not looking to heat the whole house, just offset the propane use.
> 
> If you have seasoned hardwood you will get nice heat from unit.
> 
> I'm in NYC insulated Tudor with some new windows 1800 sf i reduced oil heat buy 2 / 3
> 
> 4. Has anyone used the 3" extension kit?  I ordered it but returned it because 2-3" was no a noticeable gap,pluss some heat flows out from behind surround!
> 
> Do install block off plate this is necessary too keep heat from shooting out your chimney!
> 
> Appreciate any feedback!


----------



## mrmoxie77

Thanks for the info! Mine is an exterior chimney and I'm not sure how much a difference that will make.  I'm definitely going to do a block off plate.

Any other thoughts out there?


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## hoagieadam

My wife was against the idea of putting an insert into our fireplace, but she did humor me with a few visits to our local stove dealer.  The Montpelier was a good compromise between her/our desire for the view of a romantic roaring fire and my preference for an alternate heat source for our home.  It is a nice looking stove with a big viewing area.

We have used the stove regularly for the last month and have been very pleased with its performance.  We have a 1,500 ft of living space in our Cape Cod style home.  I load it up in the early evening and top it off with wood when I go to bed at 9PM and shut the damper as far as it will go.

When the kids get us up around 6AM the next morning, there are only hot coals left - but the downstairs is still remarkably warm.  Even on days where the temps are in the 20's.  

Once the stove gets hot, it stays hot.  If we don't add any wood to the fire in the morning, the blower will continue to run and circulate warm air until late afternoon. The glass is hot to the touch hours after the fire dies down.  The stove will not heat our whole house through the coldest part of the winter, but it has kept the furnace from running on chilly Maine fall nights.  

When we are home on the weekends, we like to have a fire in the morning.  It is as easy as adding a few logs to the hot coals and opening the damper up completely - the fire flares right back up within minutes.

Two things I would highly recommend to users:

1) have it professionally installed (I watched the installation and was glad I didn't attempt myself)
2) use very dry wood - we purchased kiln dried.  The new EPA stoves don't work well with wood with high moisture content.

If I could change anything, I wish it had a little more space for wood.  But I suppose it probably wouldn't fit in our fireplace if it were much bigger.  I should also note that the glass on the front of the stove requires cleaning.  It does fog up after multiple fires, but cleaning it up isn't terribly difficult.  We don't do it regularly - only when we are having people over and want to show it off.  

Overall, we are both very pleased with the stove.  There is nothing better than coming home after a long day and enjoying the warm fire with the family.


----------



## allhandsworking

We are also pleased!  NYC winters aren't as harsh as Mains so we do manage to heat all winter with the unit.  It would be nice if the unit had a cat.  So it could be banked down more to increase burn time.  We do manage to get over night burn times also.  I do have a two year supply of splits so my wood is nice and seasoned, especially after the hot dry summer that we have had.  I find that wood seasons faster in the winter with the high wind and dry air!  I have started a large split stack the I will season longer but these will provide an even longer burn time.  The unit seems to burn better and hotter when I just put in 4 splits on top of hot coals rather then loading the fire box to the max.  Good luck with your Monty!


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## renure

Before I comment, I'd like to say I love this site. I found an article for every question I had about heating with wood. I am just a mom with 3 teenagers so my knowledge of woodstove inserts was pretty limited and my attention span very small. We are relatively new to wood heating but love it esp. with the cost of oil in our area.  

I'd like to add my 2 cents on the VT castings, we have a Jotul Kennebec and the VT Castings Montpelier on opposite ends of our colonial house. I have to say of the 2, the Jotul is easier to light and easier to keep going. It's a much simpler design and is easy to care for. However, the Montpelier gives out more heat. It has a bigger firebox and a better fan. Once it gets going which invariably takes longer then then Jotul, the Montpelier cranks. However, I am interested in the discoloration of the glass issue I see mentioned here. I can "wash" the glass once the fire is really hot but as it cools I get the darkening of the glass.


----------



## allhandsworking

renure said:
			
		

> Before I comment, I'd like to say I love this site. I found an article for every question I had about heating with wood. I am just a mom with 3 teenagers so my knowledge of woodstove inserts was pretty limited and my attention span very small. We are relatively new to wood heating but love it esp. with the cost of oil in our area.
> 
> I'd like to add my 2 cents on the VT castings, we have a Jotul Kennebec and the VT Castings Montpelier on opposite ends of our colonial house. I have to say of the 2, the Jotul is easier to light and easier to keep going. It's a much simpler design and is easy to care for. However, the Montpelier gives out more heat. It has a bigger firebox and a better fan. Once it gets going which invariably takes longer then then Jotul, the Montpelier cranks. However, I am interested in the discoloration of the glass issue I see mentioned here. I can "wash" the glass once the fire is really hot but as it cools I get the darkening of the glass.



I had the same problem the first year.  More seasoned splits will solve the problem.  less then 25% moisture content is prefered.  ends should be checked,bark falling off, silvery or dark color on the wood.  Try keeping your splits smaller that 4" around they will burn hotter and season faster.  
As far as start up i build a top down fire with some split pallet or kindling and drop a small piece of fire starter in the kindling it really gets it going fast.


----------



## jamiebg

I just had a Montpelier insert installed, it looks great and works well.  I've done 4 burn in fires as per the manual and I've done what i thing are adequate sized, hot fires - 4 18" split logs at one time - and the fans have yet to come on. The dealer, to whom i spoke yesterday and who was very cooperative, thinks I haven't had a hot enough fire yet to activate the fans and that he's NEVER heard of fans not working out of the factory (i've checked my outlets, power is fine). Is this really possible? I thought part of the idea behind an insert is to blow hot air provided by the fire into your house to heat it. Any insight or help would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## allhandsworking

4 splits should be hot enough to start the fan.  Make sure your switch is turned.  Tonight will be cold enough for that switch to kick in!  From a cold start my fan usually starts after about 30 minutes.  Can you see the wires do they look connnected?   It is a simple fix if the fan is shot so don't be pissed!  Call that dealer back if it doesn't come on after burning for over an hour!


----------



## mrmoxie77

The Monty has arrived!  I'm getting excited for the install (kind of...really I'm more excited for the final product), which is going to happen over Thanksgiving.  Anyway, the last detail I need to address is the hearth pad.  What have others done? Built your own, purchased from a store, or ordered online? According to the manual I need something w/ an R value of at least 1.49 and I'm pretty sure our town inspector will want backup.


----------



## briv

mrmoxie77 said:
			
		

> The Monty has arrived!  I'm getting excited for the install (kind of...really I'm more excited for the final product), which is going to happen over Thanksgiving.  Anyway, the last detail I need to address is the hearth pad.  What have others done? Built your own, purchased from a store, or ordered online? According to the manual I need something w/ an R value of at least 1.49 and I'm pretty sure our town inspector will want backup.



I'll be on board with you guys in a couple of weeks, can't wait!


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

> However, I am interested in the discoloration of the glass issue I see mentioned here. I can “wash” the glass once the fire is really hot but as it cools I get the darkening of the glass.



Dry wood.  Last year was my first year burning the Monte and I saw brown glass frequently.  I was scrambling frantically to cut wood fast enough to keep up with the heating demands.  I learned a good deal about how to sort good wood while in the woods.  And I learned to simply stack the wet wood in the woods and not waste trailer space with wood I wouldn't be able to burn right away.  Sorting was a PITA.  Then as spring/summer approached I could go back and pick up all the trunks and bases that were wet and get them cut/split to dry over the summer.  

Try as I might, the occasional damp log would sneak its way into the Monte and I would immediately suffer the results.  Ugly fire, cold house.

Now that I'm burning wood that has been drying for several months those occasions are happening much less.


----------



## pkelecy

I'm also very interested in this stove (really like the large view area and how it looks), but was wondering how large the firebox is.  Does anyone know?  For some reason that spec isn't listed in the brochure or on the VC website.


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## Fod01

1.5 cu'.  Our third season with no complaints.  
The new Merrimack is 3', but not a flush insert like the Montpelier.


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## pkelecy

Fod01 said:
			
		

> 1.5 cu'.  Our third season with no complaints.
> The new Merrimack is 3', but not a flush insert like the Montpelier.



Thanks Fod01.  Just what I was looking for.


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## ctspur

Hi there, another new poster. I got a VC montpelier installed back in Feb 2010 and have ahd so many problems with trying to keep it lit, smoke coming back in the room, dark brown staining on the glass every time, and at least an hour before the fan come on. My dealer is coming out next week with authorization from VC to swap this one out with a new one. I will wait and see if that happens.
Last time he came out he lifted up the andirons and found the 3 ventilation holes were blocked by insulation so that was certainly part of the problem. How can they have missed that over the last 8 months. I am a complete novice at this and have never burnt wood before so assumed it was me not being able to keep the fire going.
I have no idea whether I have a block off plate installed. When and if he swaps out the old one, should I be asking for it and what does it do?

Thanks for all the useful comments so far


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## fire_mensch

> I got a VC Montpelier installed back in Feb 2010 and have ahd so many problems with trying to keep it lit, smoke coming back in the room, dark brown staining on the glass every time, and at least an hour before the fan come on.
> 
> My dealer is coming out next week with authorization from VC to swap this one out with a new one. I will wait and see if that happens.



If you have an exterior, or uninsulated, or short chimney you may have smoke roll out, due to the large door. How long is the flue? Is it lined and insulated? Exterior or interior?

I suspect you have chimney problems (and possibly wood that isn't dry enough). Generally, draft is not a function of the stove, but the chimney. Some stoves are more draft sensitive than others.


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## ctspur

My chimney is an external brick chimney at the end of the house and is only 18-20 ft high. I think it does struggle initially to generate a good draft but even when the fire is going fairly strongly, we can still feel the smoke on the back of our throats in adjacent rooms. As a result, we have not used it for 4 weeks now and are hoping it was a lemon and the new one will be better. We had it professionlly installed (cost as much as the insert) and it is lined all the way to the top with a SS liner and were assured that drafting would not be a problem despite the chimneys relatively low height.

As for the wood, I bought 'seasoned hardwood' but given everybody elses tales of woe with supposedly dry wood, I would not be surprised if mine was on the damp side also. As I mentioned in my original post, I was shocked that the 3 ventilation holes in the bottom were blocked and really not providing any source of air for combustion. Most of the time I had to leave the door cracked to allow the fire to keep going.
Any thoughts on the value of asking for a block off plate - what does it do? Also, is an outside air kit a waste of money even in a new (3 yr old) house where the air supply might be restricted. Would that reduce the movement of air inside the house as I often feel drafts and I  wonder if it is air moving in to replace the air being sucked up by the hungry fire.


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## fire_mensch

> ...and were assured that drafting would not be a problem despite the chimneys relatively low height.



Just my opinion, from my own limited experience, for a short flue, I would not even think of installing the Montpelier without insulation on the liner.  (The flue on mine is interior, insulated, lined and about 16'.) Raising the flue temperature significantly improves draft. Besides for UL 1777 and building code, the liner probably must be insulated. Besides, the stove has a really big door. You need all the draft you can get to stop smoke roll out.

The flue collar should be sealed at the appliance adapter on the Montpelier. Otherwise, the loose fit will lose draft. Also, if the flue collar is not snug to the insert, you will loose draft. Also, if the liner was kinked when installing, you will loose draft.



> ...and are hoping it was a lemon



I'm no expert, but I doubt it is a defective stove. I am surprised they are replacing it, unless they have found something major wrong. If the stove has a small air leak, you would get hotter, faster fires, not smouldering.



> I was shocked that the 3 ventilation holes in the bottom were blocked and really not providing any source of air for combustion.



Those three holes only supply a portion of the combustion air.  The three holes are a minor problem that should have been checked at install time. I had a very small amount of insulation in one hole. It's not a big deal. Anyway, there are only two holes feeding 3 orifices.



> Any thoughts on the value of asking for a block off plate - what does it do?



It stops hot air from rising up the chimney, cooling and falling, then rising again. The Montpelier gets very hot at the top. Without it, you will have significantly more heat loss via the chimney structure.



> Also, is an outside air kit a waste of money?



As far as I know, the Montpelier has no outside air provision. If you tried it, it looks like you would get lots of leaking. See this link about outside air: Outdoor Air Myth



> ...we can still feel the smoke on the back of our throats in adjacent rooms.



Stoves stink during break in. Ours is enamel, the glue on the liner insulation smoked and made me feel sick during break in. From what I understand, painted stoves stink much worse: Each time you hit a new temperature high, more odor.  Also, if you are smouldering wood, the heavy smoke may fall down along your roof or a wall, and be drawn in though windows and cracks. You can check for this when burning. Why don't you go get some kiln dried wood? I think you would see a big difference.

By the way, you probably do need to keep the door cracked open until the wood is charred. Wet wood may require the door to be left open most of the burn cycle (Obviously, this is not good.).


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

> Any thoughts on the value of asking for a block off plate - what does it do?



When a chimney is lined you end up with a flue inside of a flue.  If you can imagine my set-up I have a 12" square clay tile flue.  When I installed my Montpelier I put in a 6" round liner.  There's still a lot of space surrounding that round liner.  When the liner heats up, that warms the airspace between the liner and the clay tile.  That warmed air then begins to rise up and out the chimney also.   This "secondary draft" is a really bad thing to have and every effort should be made to stop it, because it sucks large volumes of warm room air out of the house.

A block off plate is one tool used to hault that heat-robbing secondary draft.  It's just a steel plate constructed at the top of the original masonry burn box with a hole just big enough for the 6-inch round liner to pass through.  

Another tool is to insulate the liner.  One way is to wrap the liner pipe with a high-temp blanket.  Some folks will just fill that void between liner and clay tile with sand, cement, unfaced batting, or vermiculite.


----------



## Paul_E

jamiebg said:
			
		

> I just had a Montpelier insert installed, it looks great and works well.  I've done 4 burn in fires as per the manual and I've done what i thing are adequate sized, hot fires - 4 18" split logs at one time - and the fans have yet to come on. The dealer, to whom i spoke yesterday and who was very cooperative, thinks I haven't had a hot enough fire yet to activate the fans and that he's NEVER heard of fans not working out of the factory (i've checked my outlets, power is fine). Is this really possible? I thought part of the idea behind an insert is to blow hot air provided by the fire into your house to heat it. Any insight or help would be appreciated. Thanks.



Newbie to this site - read through all the posts and learned a lot - thanks to all. We had our Monty installed Dec 19 all went well. Firestarting fine, did the requisite break in fires etc.; BUT, the fan never went on. Dealer said "maybe your fire wasn't hot enough". Stoked it to ~3-4" of red hot coals, thermometer said 300 degrees - no fan. Dealer said that they'd check it when they delivered our 3" extension that's on back order. I decided to take my Monty apart and traced the wires to teh fan and discovered that , although all looked ok, the male female connection on one of the terminals was bent and didn't make contact. Really considered by passing the thermal snap switch but didn't. Also noted that the fane housing install didn't align the fan with the manifold underneath the insert because the sheetmetal screws were inproperly installed. Used an awl to align the screw holes and made sure the fit was good and put it back together. Fan kicks in at about 150 degrees externally measured at the door - upper right hand side. All is well.

Question for the group - wood's good fire gets hot fan is working etc. WHY: when the fan is turned up high doesn't the fire get more air and burn hotter? That would seem to make sense if you wanted a higher burn rate. The intake holes on the front don't allow for an increased intake based on fan blow rate - is there something misaligned as it was with myy fan unit?  Question #2 - anyone have experience with the 3" extension - is it more efficient? Thanks in advance for any insights.


----------



## ctspur

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely push for a block off plate if I dont already have one and I will update again after the dealers visit next week. Started a fire tonight and got dark smoke creeping back into the room again. Definitely a draft issue. Had to open a window to get rid of the smell (not ideal when snow is falling). Fan still took 1h 20 min to kick in but it is burning well at the moment although the glass is getting brown and I expect there will be a thick black layer in the morning.


----------



## fmer55

i would suspect 99percent that your glass is brown from the wood you are burning, i would go to 7-11, buy a bundle of kiln dried splits, clean teh glass and i would suspect your glass will remain as clear as if it where not there.....if indeed the wood is wet that could be your smoke problem as well, when my box is hot and i am burning good wood there is not even any smoke in the firebox, also draft seems to be an issue.......and as far as the block off plate, insist onit.....i had my monte instaled last novemeber, also on an exterior chimney, i have no draft issues but i was not happy with the heat output. last week dealer put in block off plate and temp in 6 ft in front of the unit was raised 2-3 degrees at all times. One last thing, i have an excellent draft but i always open door just a crack at first then open slowly and never have any smoke issues......figure it all out and you will love her.....oh and as for the fan, mine takes about an hour to get going but stays on constantly once engaged...good luck and keep us posted


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## fire_mensch

> Question for the group - woodâ€™s good fire gets hot fan is working etc. WHY: when the fan is turned up high doesnâ€™t the fire get more air and burn hotter? That would seem to make sense if you wanted a higher burn rate. The intake holes on the front donâ€™t allow for an increased intake based on fan blow rate - is there something misaligned as it was with myy fan unit?



The bottom 2 primary holes have basically nothing to do with the airflow from the fan. The fan does not work as a bellows. It is not engineered that way.


----------



## fire_mensch

> Started a fire tonight and got dark smoke creeping back into the room again. Definitely a draft issue.



I had this happen just slightly when starting from cold with some wood that smouldered. Simply put, the smoke from the wood is more than the cold flue can carry away. I think you have wet wood and a cold exterior chimney.


----------



## BucksCounty

My parents recently purchased a Monte and I will be installing with a buddy.  They need the extended surround for their fireplace opening.  Does anyone have any pics of installs for an extended surround for this unit?  

One other question.  I had someone tell me to wrap the adaptor from liner to the stove with metal tape????  I don't have tape on my liner to "tee" for my stove and don't have any issues.  Is it different with an insert?


----------



## fire_mensch

> I had someone tell me to wrap the adaptor from liner to the stove with metal tape????



From the liner to the appliance connector I would use no sealers. It should be a tight fit. From the appliance connector to the insert, you can use stove cement. Rutland makes some. Imperial (buy at Lowes) makes some; the can I have says 2100 degrees F. The AL tape I have seen is good for 240-400 degrees roughly, depending on brand. The connector will get *much* hotter.


----------



## BucksCounty

Thanks FM.  That is what I thought. I have the cement on the stove collar to the "tee" now.


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## pcouton

My own VC Montpelier experience and reactions to some of the postings above, since I've learned so much from them, and two questions:

- Bought the black enamel finish with Georgian suround last year.  Looks really sharp and complements our stone fireplace in circa 1850 farmhouse
-  The unit works well, lots of heat, etc.  Took me a while to learn how NOT to completely blacken the glass.  Getting the box really hot, with big fires (filled half the box) seems to do the trick, with seasoned wood of course (or in my case, even better, standing dead maple and elm).
- the three bottom air holes seem to be critical to proper burn, and one of them does not blow much at all. Removed the brick and plate (three screws), the chanels don't seem obstructed.  But that side (hinge side) clearly does not burn as well and fogs up quicker (most carbon buildup burns off in big hot fires, but some remains).  Any idea what could be the cause of the non-flow?
- the chimey backs onto an exterior wall, and goes through a bedroom upstairs.  The stone chimney feels quite warm on that second floor and heats up that bedroom nicely.  But should that be a concern?  Could there be the dreaded secondary draft?  I can even smell a touch of smoke there (there is an old stovepipe hole covered with a steel pie plate).

P


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac

> - the chimey backs onto an exterior wall, and goes through a bedroom upstairs.  The stone chimney feels quite warm on that second floor and heats up that bedroom nicely.  But should that be a concern?  Could there be the dreaded secondary draft?  I can even smell a touch of smoke there (there is an old stovepipe hole covered with a steel pie plate).



Does this stone make up a portion of the 2nd floor bedroon wall?  Or are you just assuming the stone is behind the wall?

The wall on the 2nd floor of my house does not heat up at all.  I would look into why yours is heating up.  The old chimneys should have a masonry "chase" surrounding the flue (commonly terra cotta tile).  There should be some air gap between chase and flue.  There should be no break in this construction for the entire distance up the chimney.  I have heard horror stories of unethical contractors omitting the masonry section of the chase on the second floor, so that all there is is the wooden wall, an air gap, then the terra cotta tile.  I would make sure this is not the situation with your home.

Basically, in the event of a chimney fire, you do not want the 2x4s that are adjacent to the chimney to heat up to ignition temp (700+degrees F).


----------



## pcouton

Thanks, Black.  I doubt there is any sort of tile in there.  It's a massive stone chimney, with one side facing out, and the other three forming a corner in a bedroom.  Little risk of fire, but I wonder if smoke is present in there outside of the new liner.  

If any one else has had issues with the three air holes at the bottome of the fire box, let me know (see previous post).

P t b


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## ctspur

Phil

I had issues with the air holes in my Monty as all three appeared to be blocked by insulation and this was only resolved after months of running the fire with the door open. Even now, I get blackening of the door which does seem worse on the hinge side. Not sure if this is just a consequence of differing air flows through each hole or something unrelated like air leakage around the frame near the hinges?

My replacement insert was scheduled for last week but we had a bit of snow in these parts which means install is pushed back to next week.


----------



## Fire in RI

I had a Montpelier insert installed a few weeks ago.  I have a few issues,  first the glass gets very dirty.  the manual says to get a high flame to prevent this .  But the damper should be closed to the right to get a more efficient burn.  This is a contradiction.  the 3 air holes in front of the bottom brick do get clogged very fast with ash.  When that happens, the air doesnt pass thru, so the fire burns low ,  I keep needing to open the door alittle to let in some air.    I cant seem to get a good fire going,  this must be a draft issue.  also , do chimney sweeps know how to clean the insert?  It looks like it needs to be taken apart for that.


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## fmer55

i must ask you as well fire in ri........how good is your wood? also try the match test around the door......i will tell you i started burning the envi blocks.....have beeen burning for two weeks straight, have not cleaned the glass once.....


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## Fire in RI

whats an envi block?  also,  take a look at the 3 airholes on the bottom front brick.  they clog real fast with ash.  I used a mirror to see them,  this prevents a hot fire


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## briv

Fire in RI, I'm a little confused on your initial post.  Are you closing the air immediately to get an efficient burn?  I have been waiting to close the air until my wood is completely engulfed in flames and I have good secondaries going, then I start kicking the air back.  Closing too early will kill the flame.  I have noticed that the air holes do fill with ash but I haven't noticed this affecting the fire all that much, just push the ash away from the air holes a little if it gets higher than the holes.


----------



## Fire in RI

I leave the damper open, to the far left,  for the time it takes to get a good burn,  I only go to the mid point after I get it going,  but this takes awhile,   again the hotter the fire, the less glass darkening.  but the manual states to close damper to the right after you get the fire going,  so that makes the glass darken.


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## Fire in RI

Have a question about the air control lever on the left side.  there is a groved out piece on that side which looks like the handle or lever would fit into.  My handle is stopped by that groved out piece  which is making me think that I cannot open the air control as far as it should be.  I have seen other pictures on this forum that look like the handle is further over to the left than mine.


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## fmer55

same groove here........when to the left such as yours i am cranking


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## fmer55

Fire in RI said:
			
		

> whats an envi block?  also,  take a look at the 3 airholes on the bottom front brick.  they clog real fast with ash.  I used a mirror to see them,  this prevents a hot fire



Envi block is a compressed wood block, there are others on the market, they have only a 6percent moisture content as opposed to 15-20 percent for "seasoned wood"......i highly recommend them if you are not burning two yr old wood which i ran out of.......was never able to get an overnight burn with a full fire box....would get 6 hrs tops....with the envis i can squak out 8 hrs....dont get me wrong with wood i always had coals to fire up in the am but witht he envis i lose 2-3 degrees by morning as opposed to 6-8 i used to lose with wood......AND NO, I DO NOT HAVE AN AFFILIATION WITHT THE COMPANY...HAHA....i just absolutley love my stove now that i am burning quality wood


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## fmer55

Fire in RI said:
			
		

> I leave the damper open, to the far left,  for the time it takes to get a good burn,  I only go to the mid point after I get it going,  but this takes awhile,   again the hotter the fire, the less glass darkening.  but the manual states to close damper to the right after you get the fire going,  so that makes the glass darken.



problem with the manual is they test in perfect conditions with ideal drafts and ideal wood.....you have to figure out what works for you, the manual can not tell you how good your wood or draft is........


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## Fire in RI

I found Enviro Logs in the Home Depot.  They are made of wax cardboard particles.  According to my dealer,  shouldnt be used in an insert,  the wax could clog the air tubes.  The same goes for the Duraflame Stax logs,  they are made of petroleum wax.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

To the folks with darkening glass on the hinge-side:

Be observant of how you load your wood.  I noticed I would get the same thing - the hinge-side would darken worse whenever I have such a problem.  Then I noticed that I seem to have a natural tendency to load it lobsided - so there would be less air flow from the front to back of the stove along the hinge-side.  To put it another way, I always seem have a bigger gap between the wood and the sidewall of the stove on the latch side, and less gap on the hinge-side.

I've tried centering the wood and it seems that the hinge-side burns better.  Not sure though.  You guys try it and see if you get the same results.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

Phil,

After reading your post I removed the metal plate underneath the cement plate just to see what was there.  After replacing it I noticed it was kind of finicky about the tightening order of the screws.

You might try loosening the screws then tightening them one turn - then the next screw, one turn - next screw, one turn - and so on.  I think what I ended up doing was, alternate tightening the two front screws, then tighten the last screw.  Of course, all screws have to be started before you really tighten anything.  If that metal plate is high on one end the air will take the path of least resistance and ignore the area where the plate is tightened the most.


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## fmer55

Fire in RI said:
			
		

> I found Enviro Logs in the Home Depot.  They are made of wax cardboard particles.  According to my dealer,  shouldnt be used in an insert,  the wax could clog the air tubes.  The same goes for the Duraflame Stax logs,  they are made of petroleum wax.



wrong logs.......google them.....they are envi.....or envi 8 are the smalled ones.....they are made form 100 percent hardwoods leftovers from flooring, and also have been tested and have 0 glue unlike someother wood blocks


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## pcouton

Very good suggestion to re-tighten those screws in sequence.  I'll try as soon as the current cold snap is over.

And we too blackened that window when I followed the suggestions in the manual.  The only way to keep it relatively clean is to burn hot, flue completely open for at least 30 minutes, with good wood.  

Phil


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## fmer55

wanted to post a pic of the stove after three weeks of no glass cleaning.....not sure how good you can see but this is a direct result of burning the envi blocks, i just love them, and swear am not in any way shape or form involved witht he company


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## KaptJaq

This is my second season with a VC Montpelier insert.  It is located in the center of the main floor.  There is about 750 sq ft of open floor plan on one side and about 700 sq ft of divided into 4 rooms on the other.  When I burn "good" wood and the outside conditions are not extreme the stove keeps the house comfortable.  If the highs for the day are less than 20 degrees or there is a strong north wind it needs a little help from our Godin coal stove downstairs.

With dry wood the window stays pretty clear, a little gray ash that wipes off with a damp cloth.  It is very sensitive to poor quality wood, much less heat and the window browns over quickly.  Most of what I am burning was standing dead wood (red oak) that was cut and split during the late spring.

The only problem I've had is the fan, it sometimes gets a little noisy.  I've managed to tweak it a little and eliminated the vibration noise but one of the bearings has gotten a little loud.  During my weekly cleanup, when I remove the ash and clean the viewing window, I put a little oil on the bearings, a tiny drop of 3 in 1 30 weight.  That keeps them quiet for a while.  If I do it each week I'm fine.  Does anybody know if these bearing are supposed to be oiled, I see nothing in the manual.  If so, what is the proper way to oil them?  I cannot find a lubricant reservoir.

Thanx for any help...


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

Envi blocks?  Doesn't NY have trees?

I suppose if I lived in a concrete jungle I'd think the envi-blocks were a brilliant idea.  But getting the fuel is 3/4s of the appeal of getting a wood burner - and I didn't have going to the store in mind.

That said, it is good to know that Envi-blocks work so well.  There may come a day when I'll need 'em.


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## fmer55

aaarrrrrrggghhhhhhhhh.....captain jack has spoken.......fact of the matter is wood is stacked and seasoning, is but a mere fix to get me through the end of the year as i gather cut and stack, and the wife will tend tot eh fire with bricks but woun't touch "buggy, dirty wood".....only me second year burning capt jack, still catching up


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## Greensburg

Hello,

I am new to a Vermont Casting Montpelier insert and I have found these posts to be extremely helpful. I have had my insert in about a week now and I have been very happy with the amount of heat I get from the unit. I am having trouble keeping the glass from getting dirty on the hinge side of the unit. I will try some of the suggestions above tonight (ie. different wood; air leakage around the hinges, etc..) and I hope to have better luck. I have found that cleaning the glass is very easy with a sharp razor blade.. Glass looks perfect when finished, but am I doing damage? Please let me know your thoughts on this method. Also, is there a good cleaning solution that can clean the glass without using a blade?


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## fmer55

i too, wonder if i am doing damge when i used to clean the glass. i always used plain old windex and it did the trick, but never heard of anyone using windex and still wonder if there is somehting wrong with using it. does it break down the gaskets, etc, but i never had such a buildup that a razor was necessary, but i do not think there is any damgae being done.....good luck witht he monte


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## jocam

Cleaning the glass is easy. Just take a sheet of newspaper, crumple and dip in water then in some of the ash in your insert. Then rub the glass . It will make it smeary looking. Then take a second dry piece of newspaper, crumple and wipe it clean. It works like magic. No razor blades or Windex is required.


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## fmer55

have always been afraid of dipping a paper towel in my ash, i prefer two-ply


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## wkpoor

I have a couple observations. 1st Montpelier is the same place the Elm is made. There must be a conection somehow. 
2nd why are people who buy expensive name brand stoves having glass get dirty issues and the glass on the cheapest china built stoves on the market stays perfectly clear at all times. Shouldn't it be the other way around.


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## rover47

This is the second season for the Montpelier. Last year with wood that was "susposed" to be seasoned would foul up the glass real easy. This year with the same wood but seasoned another year and you get clean glass! All I get is a light fogging and some build up after three or four days burning. What I found the best to clean the glass is some water and this sponge that is susposed to be used to remove pet hair from furniture. It has just a fine grain to it just enough to clean the glass and then wipe with a newspaper or paper towel.
   My blower is not noisy at all. It does seem to be quieter once the stove is good and hot. The thing I do need to check is dog hair getting on the screens on the blower. Dogs and cats are sacked out in front all the time. I'm going to try and figure out some kind of filter to put on the bottom doors that swing out.
   We love to let it burn doen to just coals and cook hot dogs in the stove ;-)


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## renure

I dont't know but we use the same wood from the same pile in both our Jotul and our VC but the VC is the only one with this problem. The Jotul's glass hasn't been cleaned all season and this wood is good. I also think the VC is harder to start from a cold start. The Jotul starts right up. The VC needs more coddling.


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## newdog

I just had the VC Montpelier installed last Tuesday into a 50+ year old fireplace.  I purchased the Montpelier  because of the flush installation (small living room). Chose the Georgian surround because of the size of the fireplace.  My impressions so far:  Great little wood stove (insert)!  I finally used it full bore after 5 break in fires.  During the break in period the fan came on after about 20 minutes each time.  There was a little bit of vibration noise because of the way the fan housing is attached to the stove.  To stop the vibration I wedged a small steel clip between the housing and stove and presto it was incredibly quiet.  I heat with oil and keep the heat on 65F all winter.  Within an hour the house temperature was up to 73F.  Three pieces of wood burned for about 5 hours.  I put another piece in when I went to bed and the insert was still warm in the a.m.  My house is only about 1000 sq feet and I expect to be able to reduce my oil bill substantially next winter (tired of being cold all winter). I was torn between this stove and the Morso 5660na and went with this one because I really liked the look of it.  I have not heated with a stove since I lived in my old house almost 20 years ago and was amazed by the improved technology.


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## DanCorcoran

My owner's manual specifically says not to use a razor blade or other sharp object to clean the "glass" (it isn't), as it will scratch over time.  Wet paper towels dipped in ash work just fine for me.


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## SolarBrian

Looking forward to joining the Montpelier crew. I'm been thinking about buying this insert for almost 2 years now. Finally decided to pull the trigger last month. I was scheduled to have it installed on December 6th, but 2 inches of rain + a couple inches of snow on the ground the night before derailed that plan. The installer tried to get the lift (for liner install) across the lawn but ended up leaving some nice tire trenches before giving up. 

So now I'm waiting for the 20th and hoping the weather cooperates and freezes the ground. I'll post some pics as soon as the insert is roaring.


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## SolarBrian

Does anyone have a photo of the Monty with the 3" extension kit (extends the entier insert 3 inches out from the fireplace)?

I'm frustrated with my store/installer. They just now realized that I don't have enough clearance to the mantel trim to install the Montpelier. Nevermind that its been measured twice (once by me and once by them) with that dimension, or that they already came out to install it, but because of the 2" of rain the night before, they gave up on the install that day... 

Anyway, I noticed the 3" extension kit reduces the mantel/trim clearance from 47.5" to 36.5". Looks like we have enough hearth to use this extender. I'm just concerned about the looks. A photo would be great to set my mind as ease.

Or should I give up and look at another insert. Even with modifying the trim I'm not sure I can get to 47.5" clearance. Are there other inserts that require less clearance (perhaps via heat shield)?


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## SolarBrian

So the Monty was finally installed and we had the first break in fire this afternoon. I couldn't find photos of the extension kit we needed anyway prior to the install, but I was pleasantly surprised. The 3" extension kit looks great!

Before:





After / Break-in fire 1:





Montpelier 3" extension kit:


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## Fod01

Cool - I've never seen the stove with the extension kit.  Looks nice.

I recommend an IR thermometer.  I had a Rutland shoved in one of the hot air outlets, but it didn't work too well.  Sticking it on the door or face of the insert didn't help either.
The hotspot seems to be above the door, just left or right of center (but below that ledge you have there).  I'm keeping the blower off until I'm hitting 300Â° or so.  This lets the stove really heat up initially, and you'll notice a big increase in heat output.

Enjoy the stove, and best of luck with it.

Gabe


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## SolarBrian

Yeah, I do like the extension. The faux stove top is a nice touch. 

I did invest in an IR thermometer and confirmed your advice that the hottest cast iron is the top of the door. That point peaked at just over 200F on the first fire. Paint curing smell wasn't as bad as I was expecting.  Maybe the next hotter fire will really outgas.


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## Fod01

SolarBrian said:
			
		

> Maybe the next hotter fire will really outgas.



Oh man...we got ours in October '08.  Must've been fresh from the shop.  Smoked like oil dripping on an exhaust!


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## SolarBrian

Does anyone do "top down" fire starts in their Montpelier? If so could you post a photo of how you load it. I'd like to try it.

PS - Even after some medium fires with 550F door temps, no significant outgassing of the paint!


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## Fod01

Used to top down, but it seemed like it took too long to get the stove up to temp.  Now I do something like this from Hearth member Cleanburnin
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31393/

Gabe


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

> aaarrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhâ€¦..captain jack has spokenâ€¦....fact of the matter is wood is stacked and seasoning, is but a mere fix to get me through the end of the year as i gather cut and stack, and the wife will tend tot eh fire with bricks but wounâ€™t touch â€œbuggy, dirty woodâ€.....only me second year burning capt jack, still catching up



Welcome aboard!  You'll get along just fine around here!  I'm glad you could roll with it.  After some time I reread my own post and wondered, "who is this jerk making fun of people who might not be so lucky as to have a stash of seasoned wood?"

Not the first time I stuck my foot in my mouth, won't be the last.

Oh, and the Black Jaque character is supposed to be a French Canadian villain from a Bugs Bunny Cartoon, not a pirate.


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## Oldhippie

SolarBrian said:
			
		

> So the Monty was finally installed and we had the first break in fire this afternoon. I couldn't find photos of the extension kit we needed anyway prior to the install, but I was pleasantly surprised. The 3" extension kit looks great!
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After / Break-in fire 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montpelier 3" extension kit:



Real nice! 

Stay warm!


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## wprecanico

Hello!

We bought a used Montepelier - mostly because we found what we liked (and our fireplace was small) online and then happened to peruse Craigslist.  Lady had one for a couple of years and decided to go with pellet.  We got the stove and the 3" kit - which we needed and it fits perfectly.

As noted here though, we do have issues with darkened glass and slow starting.  I will say that my wood hasn't been stacked the best so I'm not going to blame the stove just yet!

I was curious though, has anyone found that the fan speed has a correlation to the amount of fire in the box?  The way I read the manual (which the lady had - bonus!) it seems that it does.  I've read all the posts and I don't see any mention of it so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks!


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## Fod01

Lippy said:
			
		

> I was curious though, has anyone found that the fan speed has a correlation to the amount of fire in the box?  The way I read the manual (which the lady had - bonus!) it seems that it does.  I've read all the posts and I don't see any mention of it so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks!



Hi and welcome.  Not sure how much you know about your stove, so pardon the 'bottom up' approach:

This stove has reburn tubes at the top.  Once the stove is hot enough, and if the wood is still out-gassing, you'll get additional flame in the firebox due to the introduction of heated air from these tubes (secondary combustion)....once the stove is hot enough.  The blower effectively cools the stove by pulling heat off it.  If the stove isnt hot, no secondary combustion.  This is the only true correlation between fan speed and the amount of flame.

EDIT: Unless you're asking, 'If there's more flame, do I turn the fan up?'  Depends...how hot is the stove?  
I think most owners run the fan between 6 and 3 o'clock....so kind of on the low side.  This keeps the firebox up to temp.
I run mine at 5 or 6 regardless of whats going on inside the firebox.

Gabe


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## SolarBrian

Lippy said:
			
		

> Hello!
> I was curious though, has anyone found that the fan speed has a correlation to the amount of fire in the box?  The way I read the manual (which the lady had - bonus!) it seems that it does.  I've read all the posts and I don't see any mention of it so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks!



I don't fully understand your question, but let me answer differently than the previous poster. Varying the fan speed won't make the fire larger or smaller. The fan doesn't force feed the air into the firebox. If someone was talking about varying fan speed on the Montpelier, I would think they were talking about how there is a controller in the Monty that automatically controls the fan speed based on stove temperature. You can set an approximate fan speed manually, but then the Monty will vary the fan speed + or - a certain % from where you set it based on the temperature of the stove. I've noticed that the manual control has a much larger influence over fans speed than the automatic control does. Automatic control only changes the fan speed a little.


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## Fod01

SolarBrian said:
			
		

> Lippy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello!
> I was curious though, has anyone found that the fan speed has a correlation to the amount of fire in the box?  The way I read the manual (which the lady had - bonus!) it seems that it does.  I've read all the posts and I don't see any mention of it so I thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would think they were talking about how there is a controller in the Monty that automatically controls the fan speed based on stove temperature.
Click to expand...


Automatic fan control?  That must be new.  My '08 has only the manual speed control, and the snapdisc for on/off based on firebox temp.

Gabe


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## SolarBrian

You may have me there. I went back and looked at the manual and brochure and they mention "variable" fan speed control. I guess variable is referring to the knob   I'm my line of work variable implies automatic control. That's my fault for assuming that. I did think I heard the fan speed changing on its own, but I guess that explains why it was changing so little!


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## wprecanico

Thanks for the replies.  I'm a bit new to this whole 'insert' thing - not that I was an expert on my Jotul free standing stove that I had originally.  I know the Jotul really kicked out some heat and could get the whole house toasty, where the Montepelier doesn't.  

The fan is definitely not variable speed.  As mentioned, I saw the blurb in the manual about how to have the air control in relation to fan speed but noticed not much was mentioned in the forum.

I'm going to work on the wood supply this year.  Make sure I stack and cut it correctly.  I had cut it for the Jotul,  so I have a small 'lectric chain saw in my wood shed to cut up the splits into shorter lengths.  Stove does heat up my living room to around 72, so not bad.

I'm a-learnin'


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## lindyhistory

Hi guys,
My Montpelier glass gets dirty no matter what.  I saw someone on another forum say they have a problem with not getting enough air intake from under the front brick.  He said the dealer put washers under the brick to get more air intake.  Does anyone know anything about this?   I have a ranch house so the liner is not very long so maybe the problem is draft.  I don't know but cleaning the glass is getting to be a pain in the ass.  I'll take whatever advice anyone has.  This is my first winter. 
Thanks,
Chris


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## Jagtec1

cc said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> My Montpelier glass gets dirty no matter what.  I saw someone on another forum say they have a problem with not getting enough air intake from under the front brick.  He said the dealer put washers under the brick to get more air intake.  Does anyone know anything about this?   I have a ranch house so the liner is not very long so maybe the problem is draft.  I don't know but cleaning the glass is getting to be a pain in the ass.  I'll take whatever advice anyone has.  This is my first winter.
> Thanks,
> Chris



Tell us about the wood you are burning, and how you are burning it.


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## Black Jaque Janaviac

CC,

You may want to check that connection between the liner pipe and the stove collar.  I know the liner adapter that I got had a very long crimp and would bottom out on that cross-bar in the flue-collar before the adapter sealed the gap.  So when the draft got going the liner would suck cold air in through that gap and on up the flue.  I imagine the net effect was just a weak draft.  I tucked some fiberglass rope in the gap and my Monte seems to burn "crisp and clean".


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