# Heatmaster G200 Install thread



## Aranyic (Aug 3, 2019)

Well I pulled the trigger on a Heatmaster G200 and 80' of logstor today after about 2 years of debating another indoor stove vs indoor boiler and storage vs outdoor furnace.  Finally settled on the outdoor unit after much discussion with my wife and knowing myself.  I would grow tired of building a fire 1-2x per day with an indoor boiler and with my basement layout it would be a pretty complex system.  That's the reason I ended up with a blazeking princess at my prior house because it was easy.  I opened the bypass, loaded wood, let it char and it was good for 12 hrs + with no fuss.  This looks as close as I can get to that while tying it into my central hvac. 

It's on my trailer in the drive where it will probably sit until Friday or Saturday next week when I rent an excavator for the trenching and moving it.  I was hopeful I could use my JD 2025r to move it around and save myself a couple hundred bucks to just rent a trencher instead.  However once it's on the trailer the lift hook is about 9'6" in the air.  The machine just isn't big enough.  Would have been a little easier on the wallet and yard but it'll be fine.  In the end I'll be happier with a wider trench and some sand around the logstor before I back fill it. 

Trench will be about 65' long, 30-36" deep.  Friday afternoon/next weekend will be fairly busy.  As long as I pickup after 1pm I'll have the excavator and a dump trailer for the weekend for a single day rental.  Just gotta stay under 8 engine hours. 

I am not going to putting in a concrete slab for it.  I looked at it but it's about 240' from where my drive is around some fence lines to where the OWB will be placed.  No way to get the truck to it and they money adds up having the truck out there while moving the concrete around to the final location. I've dug out 4-6" in a 10x14 area that I'll put down some 411 limestone then layout a pad of 4x8x16 solid blocks for the boiler to sit on.

I'll try and take plenty of pictures but we'll start with an overhead of where the boiler will be in relation to the house and my proud owner picture of it on the trailer.


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## E Yoder (Aug 5, 2019)

Nice!


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 5, 2019)

You’ll love it. Going into my 4th season with my g200. Very well built boiler, easy to run, very efficient and great company.


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## Aranyic (Aug 13, 2019)

I'm taking a night off from working because honestly I'm sick of sweating for a day or two.  I'll get back at it this weekend.

Picked up the excavator late Thursday afternoon.   I was supposed to have a 10' excavator and a 12' dump trailer.  The weight was OK overall but excavator wouldn't fit into the trailer right into the trailer.  It was either pitching way too much weight on the tongue or to the back.  Ended up having to take a tilt equipment trailer which was fine but it means the gravel and sand I had to have delivered.  Not a huge deal; cost me $70 for the two deliveries but honestly I would have spent 2 hours on the round trips to get it.  So honestly it worked out.

Thursday night I got a hang of the controls and pulled out some honeysuckle around the clearing where my boiler will be.  Got a downpour at 7pm so it was a short evening.

Friday started digging in the morning and cleared out the rest of my pad then dug the trench.  I was digging the trench across a water/electric run to my pole barn.  I have no idea where it was buried so I went for 32" deep on my trench and hoped they were deeper.  Never found it so it worked out.  I did enter the basement wall only 18" or so under ground I pitched it up at the end so that any water that got into the trench didn't flow towards my foundation. 




The dogs out inspecting. 




So here was where I hit my first real hangup; putting the pipe through the wall.  I was too precise on my hole size and made it just as big at the cap that would slide over the pipe to finish the end.  That's all well and good if you have straight pipe.  However the logstor really doesn't want to be straight; and it's been bound in a coil for long enough that it was slightly ovalized and not an exact circle. 

I drilled all my holes around the circle I drew and then had to use the hammer drill to chisel out the center.  Then I spent 3 hours working the pipe through and ovalizing the hole some.  At that point I didn't want to make it a lot bigger by drilling a new circle so I just did lots and lots of work with the hammer drill and a chisel bit.  It was really difficult to get the correct angle though.  I was frustrated with this part.  Got about 8" through finally which will be enough to cut the insulation back and put two ends on. 







The electric is through it and it's been sealed on both sides with hydraulic cement as of last night.

Laid about 3" of mason sand in the bottom of the trench; put the pipe in and back filled it  The gravel base for the boiler is about 8" of 57 gravel with 4x8x16 solid blocks in the square.  I've got some more gravel to around it still at some point but I don't think it turned out too badly so far for amateur hour on the excavator.  I've run skid steers and tractors with front end loaders before but this was new to me.  (played on a full sized track hoe for about 30 minutes once when they were doing some work at our office).  The tree right behind the pad is gone now also.  I did a little more brush clearing the day after that picture.  







The boiler is not set yet.  The E35 I rented (8000#) didn't have enough rear end on it to lift the boiler which I really didn't expect.  It tipped the tracks up off the ground any time I got it close.  I even added about 400# of counterweight onto the blade and it just wouldn't do it.

I guess I'm going to have to try and find either a bigger excavator or maybe a skid steer with forks?  my tractor is a Deere 2025r and I don't think it's got the capacity to lift up the G200 if I put a pair of forks on it?  I'm open to suggestions moving it.  I've got to go about 375' and can't get my pickup and trailer back there some of the turns are too narrow.  For those of you that moved it with a skid steer how heavy of a unit did you need?

Electric is hooked up at the breaker; I'm going to start doing some work with the water heater and inside connections while I sort out how to move the boiler.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 13, 2019)

I didn't realize those OWB units were so heavy even when empty.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 13, 2019)

Yes the g series is a heavy boiler. I think it is 2600 empty?

I had my neighbor move it with a off-road forklift. I know people move them with skidsteers. I would say as long as the skidsteer is rated around that you'll be good. You'll want to go with forks to move it though I think.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 13, 2019)

Aranyic said:


> The E35 I rented (8000#) didn't have enough rear end on it to lift the boiler which I really didn't expect. It tipped the tracks up off the ground any time I got it close.


If you were putting "counterweight" on the blade, you were picking on the wrong side...max lifting capacity is with the blade down and make your lift on the blade side.
And pick it up with the boiler as close to you as you can get...the further away you get the less you can pick...and lifting capacity goes away fast as you move away from the machine. (and with additional height too)
If you need to move the boiler a distance and cant carry it, leapfrog it...not fast or elegant, but it'll git 'er dun.
Edit: I looked the E35 up...it should have picked it.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 13, 2019)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Yes the g series is a heavy boiler. I think it is 2600 empty?


Brochure says 1900# for the G200...


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## Aranyic (Aug 13, 2019)

I thought it should have too; the only way it could get it into the air at all was with the blade down.  To get it off the trailer I had to go blade down and get it as close as I could.  I got it a couple inches up and had to pull the trailer out from under.  I couldn't move the unit at all and have the boiler in the air at the same time.  Even with the boiler about 12" from the unit I'd get 3 lets off the ground and the unit started rolling up off the tracks as the 4th leg lifts off.  It didn't lift evenly either which surprised me. The side with the doors would lift up first then the left corner where the rear doors open would lift and the corner where the rear door hinges would stay put on the ground.

May have just been user error but I couldn't get it.  This picture was with it about 30" from the hoe I did get it closer on the last attempt.  I've got to go about 350' with then get up onto the pad so leapfrogging it would have been just miserable I would have been afraid of breaking something lifting it that many times.  I've got somewhere around 300#+ in the counterweight you see.  some concrete blocks broken up and then filled to the top with 57 stone.  I may try a skid steer with forks later on if I can track one down.

//edit there's a weight discrepancy somewhere.  The manual says 2400# and the brochure said 1900#.

http://www.heatmasterss.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1327-G-Series-Owners-Manual-web.pdf page 8 for where it says 2400.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 13, 2019)

Aranyic said:


> //edit there's a weight discrepancy somewhere. The manual says 2400# and the brochure said 1900#.


It must be 2400, because that mini should pick 1900 no problem...I'm kinda surprised it wouldn't do it with the boiler 12" from the machine...but that pick height was not helping anything at all, so...
https://blog.bobcat.com/2014/11/compact-excavator-safety-101-calculating-lift-capacity/
https://www.bobcat.com/compare-brands/excavators?alias=lifting

You said you can't get the truck/trailer to the boilers pad...can you get the trailer back there with a tractor or something like that?
But if you can find a decent sized skid steer, you should be able to pick/carry the G200 back there no problem...


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 13, 2019)

Interesting. The 2400 number rings a bell now from the manual. I thought it said 2600 so I had forgot. My father in law tried to move it with his forks on his 35 hp tractor and that was a no go.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 13, 2019)

One suggestion I can make is that you should seriously reconsider  pouring a pad. That pad doesn't need to be thicker than 3.5 inches and I did mine with 80 pound quickrete bags. I did it with a mixer but you could hand spin it. I think I may have used about 20 bags for my 10x4.5 foot pad. I would go with even more room next time infront of the loading door if I did another pour. You will regret not having a pad that you can shovel off come snow and then come spring it will be a sloppy mess without a pad.


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## E Yoder (Aug 14, 2019)

If you lift with forks use a 2x6 laying flat on the forks to keep it from sliding back and damaging the sides of the boiler. Strap it to the forks if the ground is rough. 
I use a 180 New Holland track skid steer on our yard to unload. Getting underneath with forks really helps.


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## Aranyic (Aug 17, 2019)

I'll probably end up pouring a pad around it at some point but it won't be in the initial round of work.  Maybe in a phase 2 next summer.  At this point I'm a little gun shy to get a skid steer too small (2100#) which is about the max I can trailer with my truck and not go over max tow.  Got a 01 Chevy 2500 with the 6.0 gas and the excavator and tilt trailer totaled at about 11000#.  To get to a 2600# skid steer and a trailer I'm a little hesitant.

I went down the local farm store and grabbed a 3500# trailer axle and I'm going to frame out around the base; drop it onto the axle and just pull it that way.  I'll use a couple tire off my trailer.  Should put me out around $160 and I can always craigslist out the axle if I want to later on.  lifted it with a 4 ton bottle jack working a couple inches at a time on each side.




The frame shown above is from another project for storing my garbage cans on.  Didn't end up using it.  I've got some old 4x6's in the barn that I'll run on either side.  Tie them together with 2x lumber.  Another 4x6 coming out the front on the hitch to connect to (I've got a 2" tongue coupler that I use on some other trailers I'll bolt onto it).




I'll take my time making sure it all goes together correctly it's not done yet.  Started to rain on me some; it should work to go the distance I need though.  Back it into place and then lower it back down.


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## brenndatomu (Aug 17, 2019)

Aranyic said:


> I'll probably end up pouring a pad around it at some point but it won't be in the initial round of work.  Maybe in a phase 2 next summer.  At this point I'm a little gun shy to get a skid steer too small (2100#) which is about the max I can trailer with my truck and not go over gcvw.  Got a 01 Chevy 2500 with the 6.0 gas and the excavator and tilt trailer totaled at about 11000#.  To get to a 2600# skid steer and a trailer I'm a little hesitant.
> 
> I went down the local farm store and grabbed a 3500# trailer axle and I'm going to frame out around the base; drop it onto the axle and just pull it that way.  I'll use a couple tire off my trailer.  Should put me out around $160 and I can always craigslist out the axle if I want to later on.  lifted it with a 4 ton bottle jack working a couple inches at a time on each side.
> 
> ...


Could probably just cut a taper on the front bottom on those 4x6's and use it as a dray (sled)...no axle needed...or even just grab a couple pieces of 1" or 2" steel pipe a foot or two wider than the lumber, roll it along on that using the leapfrog method...works best with a helper to move the pipes.
Good for you for thinking outside the box here!


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## Highbeam (Aug 17, 2019)

Drag it close and then use the pipe leapfrog trick to land it on the pad. 2500# is like dragging a big cow right? Maybe a moose?


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## brenndatomu (Aug 17, 2019)

Highbeam said:


> 2500# is like dragging a big cow right?


That would be a big cow indeed, but yes, a big cow on a sled...should slide on the grass pretty easy I would think.
I was thinking about this a bit more...I bet if you had some 3/4 - 1" steel pipe to throw down on the ground, it may not want to roll real well in the grass, but the sled would probably scoot very easily across those pipe(s).
That's how basically how I slide my VF100 into place by myself...put some thin sheet metal (26 GA) under each foot and just slide it around as needed...pretty easy on concrete...considering that it was just me against 600# anyways. (but I didn't have to go too far though either)


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## SpaceBus (Aug 18, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Could probably just cut a taper on the front bottom on those 4x6's and use it as a dray (sled)...no axle needed...or even just grab a couple pieces of 1" or 2" steel pipe a foot or two wider than the lumber, roll it along on that using the leapfrog method...works best with a helper to move the pipes.
> Good for you for thinking outside the box here!



Damn, I didn't even think to use rollers. Logs would be better and handle bumps better


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 18, 2019)

When I moved mine before I had my neighbor come over with a fork lift I tried to use rollers but all I had was 2x6 to attach to the feet and obviously those aren't any where near strong enough even doubling them up. The pipes would roll to the middle and bend the skids right up in an arch. The boiler is pretty narrow in comparison to it's height, be careful with getting it tipped at all. I like the axle idea but by the end of designing and building this sled how much would it have been to have the rental company just drop off the skidsteer?

Any particular reason for not pouring the pad now instead of trying to move the boiler again and pour a pad?


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## Aranyic (Aug 18, 2019)

I didn't get out to work with it at all today.  It was about 1:30 before I got home from church and heat index of 95.  Next three days are forecast for 88, 88 and 87 with 75%+ humidity.  I figure it's not going anywhere it can wait a few days until the heat subsides a little.


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## Karl_northwind (Aug 18, 2019)

I use forks on my kubota MX5200 (52 hp 4wd) to move up to G-200's.  I couldn't, and then I bought some lighter forks rather than the monsters I had on there, and now I can.  it's that close.  I have to have the backhoe on to make it heavy enough in the back end, and still won't try it over soft ground.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 19, 2019)

Karl_northwind said:


> I use forks on my kubota MX5200 (52 hp 4wd) to move up to G-200's.  I couldn't, and then I bought some lighter forks rather than the monsters I had on there, and now I can.  it's that close.  I have to have the backhoe on to make it heavy enough in the back end, and still won't try it over soft ground.



My stump grinder is super long and 1,000 lbs and it helps when I move boulders. What's your hoe weigh?


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## Karl_northwind (Aug 19, 2019)

SpaceBus said:


> My stump grinder is super long and 1,000 lbs and it helps when I move boulders. What's your hoe weigh?


according to the book, it weighs about 1700#.  the thumb and subframe probably add 200# to that.  it's real light in the front with the hoe on.


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## Aranyic (Aug 19, 2019)

Well I got it placed.  Took a couple hours to get the things hooked up and the axle under it then move it into place.  Took it easy everything went pretty well though.  It's on the ground; have not taken the entire trailer frame apart yet but the axle is out from under it and it's on blocks.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Aug 20, 2019)

Nice job with the moving.


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## SpaceBus (Aug 20, 2019)

Whatever works!


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## Aranyic (Aug 22, 2019)

My piping won't be the prettiest but hopefully it can get the job done.  Got the boiler side plumbed.  It's part of the reason I ended up shying away from the full indoor setup with storage.  I've done some plumbing but I'm far from a pro at it.  First time working with PEX fittings and they take a little more muscle than I expected to clamp closed.

I wish things would have lined up so the logstor came through the next hole to the left but it is what it is.


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## E Yoder (Aug 23, 2019)

Looks great!


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## webby3650 (Sep 9, 2019)

Your unit appears to have fiberglass insulation. I just looked at a new G200 and it had closed cell foam. I worry about the fiberglass attracting mice... mice get into everything around here!


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## E Yoder (Sep 10, 2019)

I think the only place they could enter is the crack around the insulated pipe.


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## webby3650 (Sep 10, 2019)

E Yoder said:


> I think the only place they could enter is the crack around the insulated pipe.


I don’t know about that... they get into everything.


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## Aranyic (Nov 1, 2019)

Took a break for a while before finishing it up last week.  Got into some other projects that took priority however I finished the system up just before it dropped below freezing; fired it up on Wednesday afternoon.  It's not the best looking where I move it up to the ceiling in the first picture but I'll clean it up at some point.  The roll of pipe was an absolute bear to try and get straightened out.  You can see some of the more orange pipe is 5' sticks I picked up at Menards that were straight and much easier to work with.






The zip ties are temporary here, the aqua-stat came with a metal strap that I didn't care for.  It's on there but I'll replace it work a worm clamp at some point.  I had the company that installed my furnace work up the metal for the phelum and put it in.  Just got to fill in around the opening with some insulation now that I'm sure nothing is leaking. 





Only issue I've still got to work through is with my heatpump/backup electric.  I tied the aquastat into the heatpump to interrupt it.  However I notice on my thermostat that the backup electric heaters are trying to come on occasionally and I'm not sure why.  It doesn't do it all the time I'll just occasionally see it.  The water is hot in the pipes and I'm only moving the heat in the house up or down a couple degrees at a time.  It's a basic white-rodgers thermostat (1F89-211).  I may end up replacing it with a thermostat that can handle schedules we'll see.  I'd also love a remote sensor so I can gauge the house off our bedroom at night and the rest of the house during the day/evening.  We'll see about that.


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## Aranyic (Nov 1, 2019)

Also I did have to swap out my pump.  Started with a Grundfos Alpha 2 but it was only running about 7gpm on the highest setting which put me somewhere around 11-13ft of head.  Swapped it for a 3 speed Taco 0013 which should put me around 12-14gpm on low and upwards of 20 on high.  I'll get some thermometers tonight and see how much loss I have in the run.  Currently running it on low.  

I know I see the 10gpm number tossed around a lot with regards to the btu's for heat exchangers.  Is that the number to shoot for on OWB's or do you want to  go a little higher?


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## Medic21 (Nov 1, 2019)

Aranyic said:


> Also I did have to swap out my pump.  Started with a Grundfos Alpha 2 but it was only running about 7gpm on the highest setting which put me somewhere around 11-13ft of head.  Swapped it for a 3 speed Taco 0013 which should put me around 12-14gpm on low and upwards of 20 on high.  I'll get some thermometers tonight and see how much loss I have in the run.  Currently running it on low.
> 
> I know I see the 10gpm number tossed around a lot with regards to the btu's for heat exchangers.  Is that the number to shoot for on OWB's or do you want to  go a little higher?


It’s 12-14 on a perfect system.  Most one of the 1” insulated pex lines will flow 6-8gpm in reality.  The actual size of your line is the inside diameter of the fittings.  
The hot water exchangers are no different than your gas furnace.  They may be rated at 100,000 btu at 10gpm with 180 degree water.  Just as your furnace figure about 25%-30% less output.


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## E Yoder (Nov 2, 2019)

With one coil in the duct the alpha should have heated fine. Just with a larger temp drop (Delta t).


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## maple1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Medic21 said:


> It’s 12-14 on a perfect system.  Most one of the 1” insulated pex lines will flow 6-8gpm in reality.  The actual size of your line is the inside diameter of the fittings.
> The hot water exchangers are no different than your gas furnace.  They may be rated at 100,000 btu at 10gpm with 180 degree water.  Just as your furnace figure about 25%-30% less output.



12-14, were you talking gpm? Unsure of meaning on relating that to 'a perfect system'.

Also need to factor dT in. At a common and widely used dT of 20, 1gpm is almost 10,000 btu/hr. so the 7gpm mentioned above should be around 67,000 btu/hr. Which is quite a bit. It could be even more with a wider dT.


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## Medic21 (Nov 4, 2019)

maple1 said:


> 12-14, were you talking gpm? Unsure of meaning on relating that to 'a perfect system'.
> 
> Also need to factor dT in. At a common and widely used dT of 20, 1gpm is almost 10,000 btu/hr. so the 7gpm mentioned above should be around 67,000 btu/hr. Which is quite a bit. It could be even more with a wider dT.



yes, 12-14 gpm in a perfect laboratory setting.

on paper my 26-99 is close to 24gpm in my primary loop.  I highly doubt it’s over 18 gpm.


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## Aranyic (Nov 4, 2019)

I'm working on getting some thermometers hooked up.  I've got probes shoved up under some rubberized pipe insulation on the supply and return from within the house currently.  Seeing an approximately 8-degree drop with the furnace blower on (171 to 163) however, I am questioning calibration for them.  With no load I'll occasionally see return temps 3 degrees over supply.  I need to get them both into the same cup of water or something and see if they read the same.


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## E Yoder (Nov 5, 2019)

An 8 degree temp drop (Dt) means it has plenty of flow. The Alpha would have been around a 15-20 Dt I'm guessing which is pretty normal. But either way you've got the best kind of heat there is.


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