# 2020 EPA Certified Wood Stove Database



## webfish

EPA Database


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## Grizzerbear

Buck has one 2020 compliant stove...the 21nc. That's worrisome. I wonder if they have anything in the works.


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## jetsam

It's possible that some companies are sitting on their 2020 models since the rules don't hit until May and they want to sell through old stock before then.

If not...  the industry has known for 5 years plus. The competition has had compliant stoves  that they could copy on the market in that time, if their engineers couldn't figure it out.  I have little sympathy for a company that will hire marketing but skimp on the engineering!


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## begreen

jetsam said:


> I have little sympathy for a company that will hire marketing but skimp on the engineering!


Like many drug companies.


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## jetsam

begreen said:


> Like many drug companies.



Let's  be honest; it's most companies of all types.

Why make it right when you can sell a lot of it instead?


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## Grizzerbear

jetsam said:


> Let's  be honest; it's most companies of all types.
> 
> Why make it right when you can sell a lot of it instead?


Pretty much what I thought....but drug companies do come to mind pretty easy and on a completely more twisted level.


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## begreen

Grizzerbear said:


> Pretty much what I thought....but drug companies do come to mind pretty easy and on a completely more twisted level.


Last time I checked they spent about 19% on marketing and half that on R&D. In the software industry those numbers are typically reversed.


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## burnafterreading

Is this the final list, or are some brands/models still in the testing process and if so how often is it updated?


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## carg3

What's the column furthest to the right on the table, "NSPS compliance"?  Can someone explain the Yes vs. No?


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## begreen

NSPS 2020 - New Source Compliance Standard. Is the stove 2020 compliant, yes or no?


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## carg3

I'm confused. The Lopi Liberty isn't even listed, and it appears that several others are not compliant, and yet the new Lopis will be available here shortly.


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## begreen

There are many stoves not yet listed. Redesign and retesting takes time and not all stoves will continue to be sold past May 2020.


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## carg3

How does the Woodstock Ideal Steel land on the "no" list?  And why would companies like United States Stove, (made in China, I believe) spend so much testing stoves with emissions over 3 g/hr.?  They had to know they'd fail.


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## begreen

carg3 said:


> How does the Woodstock Ideal Steel land on the "no" list?  And why would companies like United States Stove, (made in China, I believe) spend so much testing stoves with emissions over 3 g/hr.?  They had to know they'd fail.


Call them and ask.


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## Highbeam

carg3 said:


> How does the Woodstock Ideal Steel land on the "no" list?  And why would companies like United States Stove, (made in China, I believe) spend so much testing stoves with emissions over 3 g/hr.?  They had to know they'd fail.



The list will be updated many more times right up until the deadline. Some companies are just getting it done sooner than others. Some folks are just wired that way to get requirements checked off the list and some procrastinate. As long as they get it done before the deadline they are good.


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## begreen

I suspect testing lab time has been at a premium and they are slogging through a long backlog.


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## Squirrel

While it is nice to see that the little Morso stove I have been using for several years is 2020 approved I can't help but wonder how long it will be before users are tested and licensed. I know for a fact that poor wood or lack of attention, even with an "approved" stove can fill the entire neighbourhood with evil smelling smoke and particulates and ancient smoke dragons run well can cause few emissions while wasting lots of heat.


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## BKVP

Guys, in another thread I mentioned how messed up the list is!

You must look under cordwood and crib fuel.  EPA created a problem by dividing the list based upon which test method is used.

As for the column 2020 inquiry, these are "yes" stoves tested to 28R or ASTM3053 (Cordwood method).

EPA is developing a new method, 2-3 years away.  It will be a FRM, Federal Reference Method.

As of Nov 31, 2019, there were 78 wood stoves that met 2020 requirements.   More than half were secondary combustion (non cat), the others used a combustor (catalytic).


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## John Ackerly

carg3 said:


> What's the column furthest to the right on the table, "NSPS compliance"?  Can someone explain the Yes vs. No?


List is updated weekly, and sometimes mutliple times a week.  You just need to keep checking back.  They have started marking new additions to it, so you can scan for stuff that just got added.   We are pushing them to add another column that indiciates the test method used.  Currently, its hard to tell which stoves are single burn rate, which ones got alternative test methods approved, etc.  They are open to do that, but just need to get on it.


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## Sylvatica

I've got a Quadrafire 4300 step top that I purchased new in 1998 and has never been used. I plan to install it in the near future and was wondering if there would be any issues with these new regs. Thanks.


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## brenndatomu

Sylvatica said:


> I've got a Quadrafire 4300 step top that I purchased new in 1998 and has never been used. I plan to install it in the near future and was wondering if there would be any issues with these new regs. Thanks.


No problem...just can't buy a new one if it hasn't passed


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## BKVP

EPA rules only apply to products in possession of manufacturers and retailers.   Once a EPA regulated product is sold, it is no longer a "New Source".  NSPS regulation means New Source Performance Standards. 

As a consumer,  you must use the product in keeping with the Owner and Operators Manual.


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## Bill S

Check out the Hearthstone line.  Incredible stoves and most are now EPA 2020 compliant.  Purchased a Castleton Hybrid to replace my beloved 1984 Hearthstone II.  Used one less run of wood and the clear front door (ceramic not glass!) is really beautiful.  Hearthstone, Morrisville, VT


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## johnvictor

Wood stoves are kinda like cars. There are many solid manufacturers, but you generally have to purchase through a dealer. Find the dealers near you that you are willing to work with and see what manufacturers they carry.

Then you make a list of all the possible choices of inserts you have access to and research them via the manufacturer's website and find out which ones will actually fit your fireplace.


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## illini81

begreen said:


> Last time I checked they spent about 19% on marketing and half that on R&D. In the software industry those numbers are typically reversed.



Not trying to get in an argument here... but I'm fairly certain this is not true.  

I am not in the pharmaceutical field, but I am in an R&D field.  Pharmaceutical companies spend an ENORMOUS amount of money on R&D.  I am green with envy when I look at how much they spend on R&D.  They also spend an ENORMOUS amount of money on marketing, and there are some pharmaceutical companies that spend more on marketing than R&D.  However, most do not.   









						Average Research & Development Costs for Pharmaceutical Companies
					

Pharmaceutical companies tend to have the highest research and development costs, dedicating about 17% of revenues to it.




					www.investopedia.com
				



.

Like I said, I'm not an expert in this area, but a quick google search showed me that what I had heard (I know a lot of people in research at Pfizer) seems to be correct.  

I am not at all trying to defend big pharma here, or anything like that.  Just wanted to address what seemed to me to be some misinformation.


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## BKVP

illini81 said:


> Not trying to get in an argument here... but I'm fairly certain this is not true.
> 
> I am not in the pharmaceutical field, but I am in an R&D field.  Pharmaceutical companies spend an ENORMOUS amount of money on R&D.  I am green with envy when I look at how much they spend on R&D.  They also spend an ENORMOUS amount of money on marketing, and there are some pharmaceutical companies that spend more on marketing than R&D.  However, most do not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Average Research & Development Costs for Pharmaceutical Companies
> 
> 
> Pharmaceutical companies tend to have the highest research and development costs, dedicating about 17% of revenues to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.investopedia.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Like I said, I'm not an expert in this area, but a quick google search showed me that what I had heard (I know a lot of people in research at Pfizer) seems to be correct.
> 
> I am not at all trying to defend big pharma here, or anything like that.  Just wanted to address what seemed to me to be some misinformation.


I think current conditions would have a major influence on the split.  Just think of the money poured into vaccines at this point.

Between 2008-2015, solid fuel manufacturers pumped money into R&D in order to meet compliance of the 2015 NSPS.

Then once that was satisfied,  money shifts to marketing those products.


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## illini81

BKVP said:


> I think current conditions would have a major influence on the split.  Just think of the money poured into vaccines at this point.
> 
> Between 2008-2015, solid fuel manufacturers pumped money into R&D in order to meet compliance of the 2015 NSPS.
> 
> Then once that was satisfied,  money shifts to marketing those products.



Yes, R&D $$ is always going to fluctuate.  But I promise you, if you do some research you will find that pharma is simply a field where tons of $$ gets spent on R&D.  I don't understand enough about the field to know why, but I think in general it is a pretty competitive field which tends to result in R&D expenditures.    

In comparison, I work in the Aerospace and Defense industry.  In general, there is minimal competition in this field, and so companies are very hesitant to invest more than token amounts in R&D.  Investing more than 5% of your revenues on R&D is very rare.  Most Aerospace and Defense companies are closer to 2%.


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## ddown

Can't understand PE super 27 same emission as the last years model


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## farmerandy7481

I'm confused by what the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column versus the 26% tax credit. I keep seeing on this forum that the only ZC fireplace that the tax credit applies is the Montecito Estate yet there are several ZC fireplaces that have "Yes" in the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column. Do I take it there is a different list of appliances that meet the tax credit criteria? If the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column is does not indicate the tax credit, what does it mean?


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## BKVP

farmerandy7481 said:


> I'm confused by what the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column versus the 26% tax credit. I keep seeing on this forum that the only ZC fireplace that the tax credit applies is the Montecito Estate yet there are several ZC fireplaces that have "Yes" in the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column. Do I take it there is a different list of appliances that meet the tax credit criteria? If the "NSPS Compliance 2020" column is does not indicate the tax credit, what does it mean?


Allow me to clarify.  In order to sell a wood heater after May 15, 2020, the wood heater must be compliant with the New Source Performance Standards (NSPS).  Then, if you have a wood heater that is NSPS compliant and also have a HHV efficiency of 75% or more, it qualifies for either the 25C Tax Credit or the 25D Tax Credit.  The "D" expires 12/31/2022.  This is 26% of all costs associated with a complete and safe installation.  Beginning 1/1/2023, the 25C takes over.  That is a 30% tax credit...but it has a cap of $2,000 whereas the 25D had no cap.


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## farmerandy7481

BKVP said:


> Allow me to clarify.  In order to sell a wood heater after May 15, 2020, the wood heater must be compliant with the New Source Performance Standards (NSPS).  Then, if you have a wood heater that is NSPS compliant and also have a HHV efficiency of 75% or more, it qualifies for either the 25C Tax Credit or the 25D Tax Credit.  The "D" expires 12/31/2022.  This is 26% of all costs associated with a complete and safe installation.  Beginning 1/1/2023, the 25C takes over.  That is a 30% tax credit...but it has a cap of $2,000 whereas the 25D had no cap.


Got it. So I have to filter the list to NSPS contains Yes AND HHV efficiency >= 75%. Thank you.


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