# Majestic DVR33 Pilot Goes Off



## jayace

I have a Majestic DVR33 that was installed 7 years ago. I had turned the fireplace (gas & pilot light) off for the summer and I went to turn it back on yesterday. I can get the pilot on but as soon as I turn the knob to "on" the pilot goes out. I've tried multiple times, turning the gas off overnight and trying again, leaving the pilot going for 10min or so and then turning the knob, all with the same result. Any suggestions or ideas would be much appreciated.


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## vvvv

sounds like a bad thermocouple or thermopile?


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## jayace

Am I correct in understanding that the thermocouple keeps the pilot on and the thermopile gives the ok for the main burner to light? My measurement across the thermopile is about .6 volts when the pilot is on and about -1.5mv when the pilot is off. The thermopile leads are disconnected when I'm measuring. Based on other threads it looks like it's working ok, maybe it's my gas valve then?


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## DAKSY

Check the Mv on the thermocouple (TC). You'll either need leads for your multimeter with alligator clips,
or a buddy to help you. Disconnect the end of the TC from the valve & put one clip on the copper tubing &
the other end on the aluminum "button" that seats the end in the valve. 
Light the pilot, hold the knob in to keep it lit & take your reading. 
If you don't get at LEAST 28 Mv, replace it.


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## jayace

I should mention that I can ignite the pilot and release the button and it stays on, it doesn't go out until I turn the knob to "On" from "Pilot". Not sure if that was clear from my original post. Could that still potentially be a thermocouple problem? I will do the test mentioned as soon as I have a chance.


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## DAKSY

I didn't catch that the pilot stayed on in the original post. Majestic Fire places (& some of the VC products) 
sometimes have a Spill switch wired into the valve system.
The circuit includes the pilot. See if there is a wire coming out of the valve & 
running up to the top of the fire place. 
There will be a small thermo-disk with a wire that returns to the valve.
Jump the thremo-disk & see if that solves the problem. 
If it does, replace the t-disk. If it doesn't, try replacing the wires to & from the t-disk.
They probably have dried out, lost their sheathing & may be shorting out to each other or to the appliance.


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## jayace

Don't see any additional wires coming out of the valve. Just have the ignitor, thermopile, thermostat, and then the thermocouple and pilot gas line.


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## jbcat

I know this sounds stupid but are you turning the valve the right way? I made that mistake once on a new install and statred testing everything until I realized my stupid mistake.


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## DAKSY

Which valve do you have in the appliance? 
According to the on-line maual, this fire place 
can either have a Honeywell or NovaSit valve.
We need to know which one you have in order to 
tell you how to determine if it's good or bad.


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## jayace

Yes I'm turning the knob the right way, good thought though 

I'll check what type of valve it is and post when I get home tonight. 

Thanks again guys.


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## jayace

Looks like it's a "Honeywell VS8420E 2038".


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## DAKSY

Not intending to intrude on others & their input here, but we have a 
member in this forum who has a TON of info available.
The URL will reveal who that is...

http://woodheatstoves.com/images/honeywellvsc8420gasvalvemanual.pdf

Go to page 7 for the diagnostics....

PS. THX WHS!


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## jayace

That's great, thanks Bob! I'll work those diagnostics and go from there. I'll post once I have more info to report.


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## jayace

So a couple of things to report. Doing the Coil Resistance test I get a reading of 3.3 ohms and the manual says if it exceeds 3.6 to replace valve so looks ok. The second thing is the thermocouple test gives me a reading of 21.3 mv. The manual says it should be at least 18mv but Bob your saying it should be a minimum of 28mv so not sure if 21.3 is ok or not? All the other tests are ok based on the manual. As I mentioned before, the pilot will stay lit once I let go of the button so if the thermocouple wasn't performing properly, should the pilot be going out as soon as I let go of the button or is the 21.3mv sufficient to keep it lit but insufficient to stay lit once I turn the Pilotstat to On?


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## jayace

So I replaced the thermocouple anyways just in case and still no luck.


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## jtp10181

If the pilot stays on when you let go of the button, that means the thermocouple is generating enough power to hold the magnet open.

Since the pilot stays until you switch the valve to the ON position.... either something is being grounded out causing the effect voltage from the thermocouple to instantly drop to 0, or there is a mechanical problem with the valve. I see in the pictures of that valve there is normally a hi-limit switch wired in, and also a suspicious looking wire going from a terminal on the valve across the front over towards the pilot side of the valve.

Is anyone more familiar with that valve? Does it possibly have a safety system wired up that would ground out the thermocouple and kill the pilot? I am thinking there might be a short or the limit switch is bad and stuck. Although in the diagram that would be a N/C limit switch which would not cause that anyway....


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## stoveguy13

wiht out seeing it i would say the the magnet is sticking try tapping the valve with the something give it a good wack and see if it will comes on it will not solve the problem but may get it on for a few seconds the valve is most likely shot the ohms reading can trick you sometimes


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## jayace

I'm always game for giving things the ol hammer trick.....no luck this time though.


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## stoveguy13

is the flame going fully around the TC and TP if  so i would say the valve should be replaced


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## stoveguy2esw

actually it sounds like not enough air is getting"around" the pilot light when the main burner lights up, or a weak pilot flame thats "lifting" when the main lights and causes a bit of an "updraft" on the pilot. can you remove the log set? if so will it stay lit with the logs removed? also check the tip of the t-coupler for buildup , if present clean with rubbing alcohol and a cotton ball. somtimes the tip can become insulated by buildup and not allow enough current buildup to hold the magnet


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## jayace

I don't get to the stage to even turn on the main burner though. The pilot is going out when I turn the valve to ON.


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## vvvv

thermopile produces current so what if thpile was heated with propane torch to test? dunno if extra heat would result in extra wattage from thpile? me no gasman


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## jayace

Tried the torch on the thermocouple and thermopile....no luck. Love the ideas guys, thanks again for all your help. Looking more and more like I'll need to call in a tech I think.


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## stoveguy13

call the service and tell him to bring the valve with him so you dont have to pay for two tripps also have him bring another TC  it has nothing to do with the TP


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## DAKSY

jtp10181 said:
			
		

> If the pilot stays on when you let go of the button, that means the thermocouple is generating enough power to hold the magnet open.
> 
> Since the pilot stays until you switch the valve to the ON position.... either something is being grounded out causing the effect voltage from the thermocouple to instantly drop to 0, or there is a mechanical problem with the valve. I see in the pictures of that valve there is normally a hi-limit switch wired in, and also a suspicious looking wire going from a terminal on the valve across the front over towards the pilot side of the valve.
> 
> Is anyone more familiar with that valve? Does it possibly have a safety system wired up that would ground out the thermocouple and kill the pilot? I am thinking there might be a short or the limit switch is bad and stuck. Although in the diagram that would be a N/C limit switch which would not cause that anyway....



That's been my experience with this symptom with Honeywell Valves. The VC B-vent & DV units had that damn HI-Temp spill switch wired into the thermopile circuit. The OP says there's nothing there, & no other wires coming off the valve. I'll admit to being stumped on this one. I'd take the valve into a hearth shop, tho, to preclude the service call. They might bang ya for a bench test charge, but it's GOTTA be cheaper than a service call...


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## Wood Heat Stoves

DAKSY said:
			
		

> Not intending to intrude on others & their input here, but we have a
> member in this forum who has a TON of info available.
> The URL will reveal who that is...
> 
> http://woodheatstoves.com/images/honeywellvsc8420gasvalvemanual.pdf
> 
> Go to page 7 for the diagnostics....
> 
> PS. THX WHS!



glad to be of service, got any other svc related pdfs' i should post up??


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## jayace

So after calling around it's going to cost $130 for the service call and an additional $425 to replace the valve if that's the problem. Cough cough choke. Maybe I don't really need that fireplace working after all......


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## DAKSY

Geez, Jayace. You're handy enough to do all the diagnostics yourself. 
Why not buy the replacement valve & give the installation a shot?
Coupla pipe wrenches, adjustables, pipe sealant, screwdrivers & nut drivers are all you need.
Some soapy water solution to check for gas leaks...
Oh yeah, BANDAIDS. Lotta sharp edges in them things!
Worst case scenatio is a service call later if your're unsuccessful...
My .02. If you doubt your abilities, do the right thing & hire the professional...


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## fireplace tech

to the gentalmen with the thermopile issue. remove all wires from the valve except the thermopile wires,then take a multimeter set on dc/mv put the two probes on the terminals while holding the pilot lit you should have 350-400 millivolts. if any less replace the thermopile.


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## stoveguy13

the TP has nothing to do with it it drops out before he can even get the vale to the on position

the price of the replacement sounds high the valve should be about 200$ and it should take about a 30-40 min. did they break the cost down for you are they including the service call charge in that 425 price?


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## fireplace tech

possibly sounds if there is not enough continuity in the valve and may need replaced.


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## fireplace tech

depending on make and model , it would be less than $425.00.


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## fireplace tech

i do apologize for intruding.


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## jayace

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> the TP has nothing to do with it it drops out before he can even get the vale to the on position
> 
> the price of the replacement sounds high the valve should be about 200$ and it should take about a 30-40 min. did they break the cost down for you are they including the service call charge in that 425 price?



The $130 service call is just to come out, clean and diagnose. The $425 is for the valve and labour to change it out.


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## stoveguy13

that sounds high to me maybe try calling someone diffrent


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## jayace

DAKSY said:
			
		

> Geez, Jayace. You're handy enough to do all the diagnostics yourself.
> Why not buy the replacement valve & give the installation a shot?
> Coupla pipe wrenches, adjustables, pipe sealant, screwdrivers & nut drivers are all you need.
> Some soapy water solution to check for gas leaks...
> Oh yeah, BANDAIDS. Lotta sharp edges in them things!
> Worst case scenatio is a service call later if your're unsuccessful...
> My .02. If you doubt your abilities, do the right thing & hire the professional...



Well I certainly pride myself in my handyman abilities Bob, maybe you're right. I'll need to give that some thought and see if I can find that valve locally. Any recommendations on where to source the valve if I need to have it shipped up from the US?


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## mattrsvr

This valve is notorious for this problem.Try keeping the knob depressed while turning it to the on position.I have a lot of experiance with this problem and have seem to developed a "midas" touch with them. Keep trying and preform this action very slowly after the pilot has been burning for at least two minutes. Good Luck Matt ;-)


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## jayace

Got another quote...$169 for the service call PLUS $400 to replace the valve. ($300 for the valve and $100 for labor) Looking more and more like I want to do it myself.


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## Wood Heat Stoves

valve job is not nearly as easy as a t-couple or tpile.

be sure to do a thourough gas leak check when done.

shoot me a part number for the valve, i'll see if i can get you a better price


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## jayace

Wood Heat Stoves said:
			
		

> valve job is not nearly as easy as a t-couple or tpile.
> 
> be sure to do a thourough gas leak check when done.
> 
> shoot me a part number for the valve, i'll see if i can get you a better price



Thanks Dave, it's a Honeywell VS8420E 2038


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## Wood Heat Stoves

jayace said:
			
		

> Wood Heat Stoves said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valve job is not nearly as easy as a t-couple or tpile.
> 
> be sure to do a thourough gas leak check when done.
> 
> shoot me a part number for the valve, i'll see if i can get you a better price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Dave, it's a Honeywell VS8420E 2038
Click to expand...


have a Majestic part number?

http://woodheatstoves.com/gas-valve-assy-nat-honeywell-p-6478.html
here is one from lennox for 167. 300 seems really high for a valve...

 we dont sell any mohesson parts online, but i can look into it with maj part#


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## jayace

Does this help? #10001782

It's taken from here and is based on the model # of Honeywell valve I have.

http://www.ibuyfireplaceparts.com/p...nt-Repair-Parts-at-iBuyFireplacePartscom.html

or:

I found the manual for my exact model of fireplace and it lists the part number as 10000235.


Sorry for the confusion.


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## jayace

Finally got a hold of a 3rd company and they've quoted me $350 to change the valve it that's the problem, $99 for the service call if it isn't the problem. Much more reasonable, so I'll leave it to the pros and not worry about blowing up the house and family. 

I'll let you know what the verdict is after the call late next week. Thanks again for all your help everyone, this forum is a great resource.


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## jayace

So it was the valve that was the problem. The company I called replaced it with a Nova SIT and everything is good once again. Cost me $350 installed. (cdn)


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