# Would like some advice on how to ID a Stihl



## duran7 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hello:

I am a newbie wood burner going on 5 years. Mostly, every year I appreciate how little I know. I have most of my wood up which is progress. Although there are other forums to join and ask questions I thought I would stay here and see if someone might be able to counsel me. I am learning.

I have my Husky 372 XP running great and have had some locals get me up to speed on how to make a chain sharp! So, that is my primary tool and I have enjoyed getting to know it more and more. It just runs!

I picked up a Stihl today at a yard sale which advertised a log splitter. Log splitter was too much of a project and if the current owner was not fixing it, I was not going to fix it. On the way home I went
through the high rent district and saw another yard sale. For $10 I figured why not pick up a Stihl.

Unlike the Husky which has a stamped model and SN, you can't figure anything out on this Stihl. After hours on other forums I am not much closer. What I did learn is the SN is useless unless the saw was registered at time of purchase. What I gather is helpful is the casting numbers. The recurring number on the castings is 1120.

I got it to run. Runs great for 30 under load and then loses all power. Remove the load and it runs just fine. I figure to trouble shoot the issues I need to figure out what it is. Of course the down side of all this is I could have been splitting or collecting more wood today so it has cost me a day. At times I wonder if I should just stow it and move on. It's not like I need it. Just part of the fun of collecting wood is tinkering with the gear.


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## duran7 (Jul 14, 2012)

Well, after some searching I find I have an "occasional use" model 010/011 AVQ (anti vibration/quick stop) So much for scoring a professional grade saw. Now to figure out the actual engine (MAHLE 38 ZD 18) is for size. I thinking those numbers might be telling me something. So far all I can find is it has a displacement of 37 cc. When I put it to the task, it bogs and looses all power. Remove load, runs like a scalded cat. Very odd. I'd like to think I can figure this out.......pointers welcome. I can't imagine it is all about 37cc vs 70cc.


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## Thistle (Jul 14, 2012)

That 372XP is a beast alright.Very well respected saw from all users across the spectrum.

Here's some into on your Stihl that might be useful -

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...6f738e18994f7b8f88256ba200490c1d?OpenDocument
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...2adbb4dba0ac219e88256ba20049e110?OpenDocument


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## amateur cutter (Jul 14, 2012)

Try tuning the H side a little richer or out. Also check the fuel line very carefully, I've seen the saws run fine till you put them in the wood, then the load flexes the av mounts & opens a small crack in the line. That's actually a decent little limb saw. Nice deal for $ 10.00. A C


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## duran7 (Jul 14, 2012)

You guys are great!

Thistle, thanks for pointing out the specs on the 010 vs the 011.  From what I can tell, the difference was all about displacement.  101 being 37ccm and the 011 being 41ccm.  I have come up with nothing on the MAHLE 38 ZD 18 on the cylinder head (pot) casting.  Maybe the 38 is code for a 38mm stroke which would mean I have a 011. That would be a bonus!

AC:  Thanks for the thought on the fuel line.  Ah....I am a virgin when it comes to Stihl and in general 2 cycle is new to me so go slow with me.  Give me a 4 cycle Tecumseh and I am good to go.  These silly little 2 cycle carbs look like a swiss watch to me.  I can see I have access to 2 stacked screws, high and low which I have to sort out. And a single screw.  It sure would like to locate a service manual before I start twisting jets.  On a whole, other than user manuals, I am not finding much help on Stihl other than forum discussion.  I will follow the fuel line and look for cracks.  It is quite amazing how it dies when fully engaged for 30 seconds.  The chain stops and the saw is close to stalling.  Lift from the cut, and vroom!  All RPM, no torque.


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## Ashful (Jul 14, 2012)

That 37cc saw will be a wonderful compliment to your 70cc saw.  If you can get it running nice, I suspect you'll find yourself using that heavy 70cc saw less and less.


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## StihlHead (Jul 14, 2012)

That is likely a model 011. Mahle made and still makes a lot of OEM Stihl cylinders. It means the cylinder is the original. 1120 is the series number of Stihl saws which included the 009, 010, 011, 012 saws. Check the compression. If it is low there is not much you can do other than a rebuild of the P&C. Low is less than 120PSI. Generally they do not start if they have a cracked gas line, but I would replace that anyway (they are cheap). It could also be a bad coil (they can fail over time).

For $10 that is a good deal, especially if it has good compression.


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## rkshed (Jul 15, 2012)

Is the handle cracked on the bottom of the saw?
If so, it may be flexing enough to cause the trigger linkage to act as though you are releasing the throttle and applying less fuel.
Weird but this just happened Friday to my Jred 455.


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## ScotO (Jul 15, 2012)

great deal on that little limbing saw. Two things, coils can be had on ebay and are relatively cheap (both new and used) so find one and try it out. As for the carburetors on these saws, they are very simple. You just need to understand how they work (many tutorials on youtube and the internet), once you get the basics down they are very easy to rebuild and tune. As a baseline setting, turn the stacked screws in the whole way til the bottom out (don't over-tighten them, just snug them). Figure out which is the high screw and the low screw , there will be an "H" and an "L" stamped in the carburetor block near the screws. Back the "L" screw out one full turn, back the "H" screw out one and a quarter turns. Fine tune it from there. I'm looking at picking up a 372XP later today, looking forward to it too (and I'm a Stihl guy)


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## Freeheat (Jul 15, 2012)

duran7 said:


> You guys are great!
> 
> Thistle, thanks for pointing out the specs on the 010 vs the 011. From what I can tell, the difference was all about displacement. 101 being 37ccm and the 011 being 41ccm. I have come up with nothing on the MAHLE 38 ZD 18 on the cylinder head (pot) casting. Maybe the 38 is code for a 38mm stroke which would mean I have a 011. That would be a bonus!
> 
> AC: Thanks for the thought on the fuel line. Ah....I am a virgin when it comes to Stihl and in general 2 cycle is new to me so go slow with me. Give me a 4 cycle Tecumseh and I am good to go. These silly little 2 cycle carbs look like a swiss watch to me. I can see I have access to 2 stacked screws, high and low which I have to sort out. And a single screw. It sure would like to locate a service manual before I start twisting jets. On a whole, other than user manuals, I am not finding much help on Stihl other than forum discussion. I will follow the fuel line and look for cracks. It is quite amazing how it dies when fully engaged for 30 seconds. The chain stops and the saw is close to stalling. Lift from the cut, and vroom! All RPM, no torque.


I just totally rebuilt a older 011 , I bet its a carb issue/ fuel line , the fuel line to replace isn't horrable but its not fun, the only word of caution is some of the gaskets are not aviable anymore.

JIM


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## duran7 (Jul 16, 2012)

You guys have been most helpful.

I talked to a few guys this weekend as well and the feeling that I needed to back out the H needle a tad so it would cut when put to the wood. But move in very small increments and test. I backed out about 75 degrees and it kept running through the cut...much better. Still, not strong, but would not just stop on what IMO was minimal load.

Next issue is no oil to chain. When I cleaned it externally....with air....seemed to me I had good oil as it kinda just oozed out. Now, dry chain. So, likely a carb rebuild and some issues around the oil pump or tubes. I am going to stick with it but need to get back to splitting....if the heat would just break. In the event others might find this helpful, here are two useful links which I will add to.

Oil flow suggestions
1120 rebuild
009 Parts List and diagram....best I could find


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## smokinj (Jul 16, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> great deal on that little limbing saw. Two things, coils can be had on ebay and are relatively cheap (both new and used) so find one and try it out. As for the carburetors on these saws, they are very simple. You just need to understand how they work (many tutorials on youtube and the internet), once you get the basics down they are very easy to rebuild and tune. As a baseline setting, turn the stacked screws in the whole way til the bottom out (don't over-tighten them, just snug them). Figure out which is the high screw and the low screw , there will be an "H" and an "L" stamped in the carburetor block near the screws. Back the "L" screw out one full turn, back the "H" screw out one and a quarter turns. Fine tune it from there. I'm looking at picking up a 372XP later today, looking forward to it too (and I'm a Stihl guy)


 
That is the one I would take. I missed 2-372's for 350.00 by min's!


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## ScotO (Jul 16, 2012)

smokinj said:


> That is the one I would take. I missed 2-372's for 350.00 by min's!


SmokinJ, I bought it yesterday!  I got to go pick it up, maybe this evening if time permits.  It is in great shape, needs an on/off switch, and a good cleaning/tune-up.  I'll also open the muffler up ASAP, 'cause that's how I roll.  I got the XP, a 20" husky bar with 2 chains, a 32" husky bar with one chain, and a 20" Stihl Rollomatic ES bar, all for $400.00!  I think I made out OK!


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## smokinj (Jul 16, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> SmokinJ, I bought it yesterday! I got to go pick it up, maybe this evening if time permits. It is in great shape, needs an on/off switch, and a good cleaning/tune-up. I'll also open the muffler up ASAP, 'cause that's how I roll. I got the XP, a 20" husky bar with 2 chains, a 32" husky bar with one chain, and a 20" Stihl Rollomatic ES bar, all for $400.00! I think I made out OK!


 
Did you run it?


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## ScotO (Jul 16, 2012)

smokinj said:


> Did you run it?


 Yeah, I ran it.  Great compression, revs hard and fast.  I think I made out alright...


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## Thistle (Jul 16, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> SmokinJ, I bought it yesterday! I got to go pick it up, maybe this evening if time permits. It is in great shape, needs an on/off switch, and a good cleaning/tune-up. I'll also open the muffler up ASAP, 'cause that's how I roll. I got the XP, a 20" husky bar with 2 chains, a 32" husky bar with one chain, and a 20" Stihl Rollomatic ES bar, all for $400.00! I think I made out OK!


 

Helluva deal!!


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## duran7 (Jul 16, 2012)

OP back again. Not to hijack the thread......with a toy saw....but.....why not.

I found more fuel on H certainly helps. I think a clean air filter will help with starting. Starts easy with it off. Starts hard with it on. I think I can handle the carb issues and may even get a rebuild kit. It starts, runs and cuts. I think some more work will yield better cut results. My compression tester is MIA. Peeked through the spark plug and bore is mirror shiny. Still, I will see if I can find mine or borrow one.

My main issue now is no bar oil. I understand this is an impulse oiler. Thus, when running with bar off and some revs, I should see oil being pumped out. Zip. When I hold it upside down, I get some oil from a small hole with what looks like the top of a small cotter pin. Not sure what that is all about. My impulse oiler has a rubber seal around a silver disc. Almost like a disk brake caliper. You can depress it and nothing happens. I have read about these needing a new diaphragm if you can find them. I have read the internal hose can fall off. I don't want to split the case. I have read that you drain the old oil and put in a gas/oil mix and let it sit. Might solve a clog. Or, remove the impulse pump and clean. Any folks with prior experience on this 009/010/011/012 series oil pump?

Thanks!


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## amateur cutter (Jul 16, 2012)

Pull the cap, drain the oil, & take a look in the tank. You should be able to see the filter & line in the tank. Make sure it's hooked up, then grab the line with a piece of wire etc. & you should be able to fish the filter out through the hole. Clean or replace it, & run some light oil or ATF through the system & see if the oiler moves it. If it does, go back to bar oil & see what happens. A C


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## amateur cutter (Jul 16, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> SmokinJ, I bought it yesterday! I got to go pick it up, maybe this evening if time permits. It is in great shape, needs an on/off switch, and a good cleaning/tune-up. I'll also open the muffler up ASAP, 'cause that's how I roll. I got the XP, a 20" husky bar with 2 chains, a 32" husky bar with one chain, and a 20" Stihl Rollomatic ES bar, all for $400.00! I think I made out OK!


 

Did you get the 066 carcass too?


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## Ashful (Jul 17, 2012)

Running that saw with the H screw trimmed too lean is not the recipe for long life. Neither is tuning it up with a dirty air filter and then replacing the filter. This can lead to a too-lean situation. Make sure you re-tune any time you replace the air or fuel filters, as they can play into the air/fuel mix.

When you tune, you'll find there's a sweet spot with some range.  Aiming toward the leaner end of the sweet spot will give you a little more power, with more heat on the piston.  Aiming toward the richer end of the sweet spot will save your piston, at the cost of a little power and a little carbon.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2012)

Dont know if its been said but you can run the serial #'s and it will date the saw to the year it was made.


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## duran7 (Jul 17, 2012)

First, some pictures.

My saw must be a little different. I tried to pull the filter out but it seemed to be attached. Let it drain over night, try again in day light, it definitely was attached. Visually, it looked like it was attached to the diaphragm pump. So, I went at it from the other side and removed the diaphragm pump all together and there was the filter and hose. Removed hose, filter and did some diagnosis.

The small hole at 11 in flange where the bump attaches connects to the crankcase and "transports" pressure impulses to the oil pump. I had hoped it was clogged but compressed air moved the piston and or vented out the spark plug, all seems to be clear. The oil tube was and is clear. The filter was saturated with oil, can't see an issue there. I am left with taking the pump apart which requires a tiny cir-clip remover which I don't have. Big ones, yes, small ones like this, no.






Second picture is of the pump and filter. Not all that interesting but might be useful to someone down the road. You are looking at the back of the pump which projects into the oil tank. The plastic disc holds the foam filter onto the pump and then the hose onto the nipple. The impulse hole (now at 1 o'clock) is a bit gummed up. Hopefully once I get it apart for some cleaning. it will work like it should. Spark plug has no reason being there. Just was.






As for running the SN. I did read you can send Stihl an note via their website and ask for details on the saw based on the SN 214454508. I did that but understand they can only comment if the saw was registered at time of sale. And, I understand Stihl can and will take their time in responding. I am optimistic I can get her to run again. Did not want to run it any more until I could get some bar oil flowing. Then I will delve deeper into correct carb tuning.


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## duran7 (Jul 17, 2012)

Update.  Well, as I ran the mental tapes back in AC...it is smok'n humid and soon hot too in NH....I decided to pursue the "stuck check valve" scenario.  Split the pump as a small screwdriver can get the pseudo cir-clip off but not back on, so carefully I took things apart.  The diaphragm is just as fragile as people say.  Cleared the gunk out....really was not much.  Removed the diaphragm and worked on putting compressed air through the feed nipple in the same direction the oil would flow.  Nothing.  Nothing reverse direction either.  Stumped, I came back in and looked at the 009 drawing I found on line (see above).  Check valve is inside the brass feed nipple. No idea how to get that apart without some damage.  The drawing showed the ball was on the outboard side so with greater assertion, I pushed my probe into the ball.  It was stuck!  Air...nothing....more fiddling with probe and eureka, air now flowing successfully in the same direction as the oil.  The good news, it all went back together and it would seem I did not damage the diaphragm.  Oil now flows to bar.  Mission accomplished.

Struggled with getting it started but once started I could tune it some.  I need to now go to school on the carb tuning.  I have it in a place where it won't bog when you go full throttle and it keeps cutting.  Release throttle, slows and pops along w/o chain moving.  100% throttle held, backed off until no skips so H is not too rich.  L is right as it does not hesitate when I jump the throttle.  But, I am sure I can do some more homework.  When I get that new air filter, I can get it done right.  Assuming my starting issues go away when I get it adjusted correctly, I think I can skip the carb rebuild for now.  I just have a few missing screws to source.   I split a 1/2 cord by hand before 8 so I figured I could play with my toy saw.  A retired logger said anything under 3 ci will be a disappointment.  I now appreciate what he is talking about.  But, many a tree I have limbed with the 372XP and your arms can feel it.


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## amateur cutter (Jul 17, 2012)

100% throttle held, backed off until no skips so H is not too rich

Actually, you want a little "skip" @ wot throttle and no load, we call that 4 stroking, it should then smooth out under load. This is the best tune by ear you can get for power & longevity. If it runs smooth & fast it's a bit lean & you risk piston damage under load. A C

BTW, nice job on fixing the oiler, & my apologies for leading you astray on the filter. I was working on a newer saw in my head.


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## blel (Jul 18, 2012)

I inherited an 011 about a year ago. It's a great little saw. So often you don't really need anything any bigger. I find I use it more than the 028


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## duran7 (Jul 19, 2012)

Hello again. I hope my posts are not becoming a bother. I am solo w/o anyone to coach me. 2 cycle is new to me. AC, no worries. You got me to take the next step which was to dump the bar oil and see what the heck was going on in there. Some basic use of eyeballs and brain yielded a positive result. You prodded me onward! Much appreciated. I get the concept of wanting it a little rich. Fuel acts as a cooling agent and a lean, hot piston is not good for a long life. I just wish I could get back to having it run for more than 5 seconds.

Currently I am trying to figure out my next step. When I first got the saw I could get it started with some Gumout and (ether....which I now understand is a no no)....anyway, I got it to run with fresh gas and some placebo cleaner. Reved well, would hesitate when you jump the throttle but then rev great. Would start and run, but no power when put to wood. Backed off H and power issue was solved....then bar oil issue.

Now, after sitting for 12 hours it will start on say 3rd pull, run, responsive to a few blips of throttle and then die and not restart after 5 to 10 seconds of running. Sounds like basic starvation caused by the fuel vent line being clogged. But, the fact that it ran until I shut it off just a day earlier, after tuning the carb, makes me think I have a different issue. The air vent is not going to clog up like that IMO but what do I know. Did I tune the carb in such a way that once started and warm it runs....but now, cold, it won't start due to improper adjustment? Coil...from my limited experience, if working once, likely still working as failure mode is zero function or 100% function. In short, it seems like a fuel issue to me, not electrical.

What stumps me is that it was running continuously prior to the bar fix and my effort to "tune" the saw. Me thinks I have caused the problem. Or, am I still fooling with a saw that already proved to have a "stuck" bar oil check valve from non use and a saw that likely sat with stale fuel. All this may point to a carb rebuild. So, would AC say; "..PULL THE CARB and go through it with carb cleaner and replace......stop over thinking it...".

Thoughts? Wisdom?

Thanks!


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## smokinj (Jul 19, 2012)

I would start with Air filter clean and fuel filter new?


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## duran7 (Jul 19, 2012)

You mean there should be a fuel filter on the end of the hose in the tank? Nada on mine.

Today's effort. Went back to ground zero. Gently seat L and back out one full turn. Gently seat H and back out 1.25 turns. It started. I had the L out almost 4 turns after tuning it by ear. But, it now hesitates if not stalls when I jump the throttle. So, I back out L. Got it running great. Ran through two tanks....(does not hold much mix)....but when tuned to run....so you can jump the gas....it won't start. I cut up some fallen sugar maple. I don't think there was one piece longer than 12" that did not have a knot, branch, or something. Messy stuff.

On a whole, the little saw did great. I just can't seem to find the sweet spot of being easy to start and run strong once started. Guess I am learning. At this point I leave it so it will start but then gently give it gas until H kicks in and then we're making chips. Still a small amount of missing WOT no load. With load, but it runs solid when in the wood. I hope I am not in the lean zone. Going by another service place tomorrow, will pick up air and fuel filter.  Right now, the solution is tune it after you get it running.  Not right, but it is where I am.

Thanks!


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## amateur cutter (Jul 19, 2012)

Keep smiling, you're gaining on the saw & experience both. Definitely a fuel issue by the sounds of it. The L screw shouldn't need to be out past about 1.25 turns @ most. My guess is that w/o the fuel filter, the carb has a little dirt in it. I'd be inclined to try a little Sea Foam in the fuel for a couple of tanks after installing the new filters. Does wonders sometimes. It sounds like the H side tuning is right on. You might try a little more fuel on the H & a little less on L to find the sweet spot, don't be afraid to screw with the tuning, you won't hurt it unless you get too lean. It just takes patience & practice. I often carry a pocket screwdriver right to the tree with me, & re tune my saws for temp & humidity when cutting. It keeps my ears tuned to my saws so I know what's going on with them. Be observant, patient, & diligent. You can learn to tune a saw as accurately by ear as you can with a tach.

 You've done very well so far, keep at it, & you'll fall in love with your little $ 10.00 investment. A C


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## MasterMech (Jul 20, 2012)

If the saws still runs with the L screw 4 turn out, then you definitely have something restricting the L fuel passages in the carb. With no filter on the pickup line then dirt is a likely answer but so is varnish/gum from the stale gas. The repair is the same either way.  I'd pick up a diaphram/gasket kit for the carb and soak/spray it clean.


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## StihlHead (Jul 20, 2012)

amateur cutter said:


> 100% throttle held, backed off until no skips so H is not too rich
> 
> Actually, you want a little "skip" @ wot throttle and no load, we call that 4 stroking, it should then smooth out under load. This is the best tune by ear you can get for power & longevity. If it runs smooth & fast it's a bit lean & you risk piston damage under load. A C
> 
> BTW, nice job on fixing the oiler, & my apologies for leading you astray on the filter. I was working on a newer saw in my head.


 
What he said... +1.

You want some 4-stroke/burple WOT w/o a load, or its apt to be too lean. Err on the rich side and it will last a lot longer.


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## smokinj (Jul 20, 2012)

duran7 said:


> You mean there should be a fuel filter on the end of the hose in the tank? Nada on mine.
> 
> Today's effort. Went back to ground zero. Gently seat L and back out one full turn. Gently seat H and back out 1.25 turns. It started. I had the L out almost 4 turns after tuning it by ear. But, it now hesitates if not stalls when I jump the throttle. So, I back out L. Got it running great. Ran through two tanks....(does not hold much mix)....but when tuned to run....so you can jump the gas....it won't start. I cut up some fallen sugar maple. I don't think there was one piece longer than 12" that did not have a knot, branch, or something. Messy stuff.
> 
> ...


 

lol GET ONE! Read up and listen to the sound wave as many times as it takes!


http://web.archive.org/web/20051018212959/www.madsens1.com/sawtune.htm


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## duran7 (Jul 20, 2012)

New air and fuel filter in hand, plus a few replacement screws.  Things are looking up.  I got there are 1:30 and although there were 4 guys, only one knew what to do, ironically, the youngest.  Who would have thunk?  He quickly got me my stuff and then ran off to lunch.  Thus I got no chance to sort out if this is the 010 or 011.  Everyone's got to eat.  Nice that a small shop is that busy.  Interestingly, stocked both Stihl and Husky.  I look forward to putting them on and then tune again.

smokinj, great link on carb tuning.  I have even been to Centralia a few times.  You can hear the trees grow in the PNW.  It is amazingly beautiful country!

Back to dinner prep!


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## MasterMech (Jul 21, 2012)

duran7 said:


> ... Things are looking up. I got there are 1:30 and although there were 4 guys, only one knew what to do, ironically, the youngest. Who would have thunk? He quickly got me my stuff and then ran off to lunch....


 
Yeah you never know about us young guys, might be the real go-getter of the bunch.


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