# My Options and outdoor furnace



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 19, 2013)

I have been going through options now for a while as to what type of wood burner I would like.

I wanted to ask if anybody can give advice about the us stove 1600ef outdoor wood furnace. If anyone has one let me know what you think. Also, how would wood consumption for this furnace compare to an indoor wood furnace like the englander, since this is outside? I would like a gasification boiler but I can not spend more than what this is priced.


----------



## webbie (Sep 20, 2013)

My first take is that in anything but really moderate climates, an outdoor hot air furnace is going to lose a lot of efficiency. Personally, I'd rather have an efficient indoor stove (or furnace) which did the job...even partially.

In terms of MPG, my guess is that a good indoor stove could get twice as much heat from the same pile of wood. That's a big diff.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Sep 20, 2013)

How in the world wold you even hook up this stove to the existing ductwork system? you would have to have it right up against  you house. Hot water OWH use underground insulted pex pipes. AS webbie said you will get a lot more heat from your wood into your living space with an indoor stove. Friend of mine has an OWH boiler and he uses at least 2-4 time the wood i do to heat a smaller house than mine.
Of course his wood is green too, making matters worse.


----------



## stee6043 (Sep 21, 2013)

As others have said I think you'll find an outdoor furnace would burn quite a bit more wood, all things being equal.  Pumping hot air through a duct outside the house is going to be a bum deal no matter how you look at it.  Some folks make it work, however.   Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for these furnaces.

If it were my money to spend I'd go with the indoor unit.  Or perhaps even a conventional stove if that's an option?


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Sep 21, 2013)

THese OWH have huge  fireboxes. Guy i know burns stumps in his.


----------



## arngnick (Sep 21, 2013)

If you must have something outside I would go with an outdoor boiler and heat exchanger coil inside. If not get something to put inside and burn good seasoned wood. Good Luck!


----------



## shawn6596 (Sep 21, 2013)

I also looked at this option, but I couldn't find any facts on consumption.  I looked at a boiler in and out side.  I seem to be a group consensus that as cheap as my natural gas was that I would be better off to sell wood to pay the bill than to heat with it.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Sep 22, 2013)

shawn6596 said:


> I also looked at this option, but I couldn't find any facts on consumption.  I looked at a boiler in and out side.  I seem to be a group consensus that as cheap as my natural gas was that I would be better off to sell wood to pay the bill than to heat with it.


You can make a safe bet that just about any OWB will consume far more than an indoor EPA stove. The firebox alone is many times the average wood stoves. And most of them are NOT EPA reburn stoves where your getting an extra 30-35% more heat out of burning the smoke.


----------



## webbie (Sep 22, 2013)

shawn6596 said:


> I also looked at this option, but I couldn't find any facts on consumption.  I looked at a boiler in and out side.  I seem to be a group consensus that as cheap as my natural gas was that I would be better off to sell wood to pay the bill than to heat with it.



Probably true at the current cost of wood and nat gas.

As we have said since the site was founded (1995), wood burning is as much a lifestyle as it is heating method. Ask most fishermen the actual cost per lb harvested and....if they add it up, it's gonna be massive! I remember a boating mag article that laid it out. In some cases, it was $50K per pound if you used a fancy Sportfisherman (boat). 

But getting away from the everyday world? Priceless. I suppose that's part of the wood burners enjoyment too.


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 22, 2013)

If the easiest and cheapest thing for you is to join up with your existing forced air system, I would take a look at the Kuuma stoves.

http://www.lamppakuuma.com/index.html


----------



## shawn6596 (Sep 22, 2013)

for me an inside unit wasn't really a viable option.  I have a 1600 sqft two story.  The best option for inside is in the basement and a flue from the basement out the top of the roof was just too costly.  That was why I looked towards boilers, also I could heat the shop and house with the same unit.  I heat the shop now with 2-3 cords a year.  The house is nat gas, and only cost $1200 a year.  Like many here I really like cutting wood.  I love the time in the woods.  also its great exercise.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

The problem is that I have a 3000 square foot house and with three oil tanks in the basement I can not put it there even if I do put it on the other side of a wall of the tanks. So with a sandstone basement wall between the oil tanks and where I thought I was going to put the englander. My concern is that if a tank leaks then oil will leak into the other side of the basement and be beneath the furnace which is bad. 

If I can put the furnace on the other side of the wall of the oil tanks let me know but I think this is a bad idea.

So, I also found out that I can not put it in the garage attached to my house that has my new edition above it. This makes sense because of the gas fumes and other gas powered equipment and the truck in there. Can I build a box out of cement block to put the furnace in the garage or no? I would love to do this but I think that the insurance is still going to see it as being in the garage. 

Therefore, I am left to outside. Earlier in the summer I posted about heating my house with a wood stove on another thread. However, I find this might not work because of my house having alot of curves to it and there is a while for the heat to get to the stairs opening to heat the upstairs. I consider getting the englander 30 stove put to move heat in my house I think will be difficult. However, how much heat do these throw out? I even considered putting the englander in my game room and just let it dump heat with the blower. However, I see me needing fans everywhere in my house to get the heat to move where I want it to. But then again this is new to me and how much heat does this englander stove throw out?

My goal is to somehow put the englander in my basememnt or garage. But I think that I can not make this happen.

Therefore, I am stuck to the outside. I think that since I like my house cooler 65 max I think that it being outside might be good. However, if it is outside my neighbor with similar house uses 5 cords max a winter in his century wood furnace. Thus, I do not want to use more than five cords. But I have not heard from anyone yet about this furnace.


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 22, 2013)

04HemiRam   -    Why do you have three oil tanks in the basement? And why not make plan to get two of them pumped out and out of your basement? Then put a forced air wood furnace in the basement. I would not rush into this. Do you have seasoned wood all ready to go for this year? You will need it. Tell us a little more about your plan and what you have done already. Maybe the guys on here can give you some good steering advice.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

I have the oil tanks because I want to keep them filled in case something happens to me so I can just turn on the oil. Plus the prices just keep getting higher. Another consideration I had was moving the oil tanks out side. Can I do this what are the restrictions. Also, can I fence them in? My main goal is to use the englander either setup in the basement or preferably the garage.


----------



## flyingcow (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm with gasifier.

Also, do you have a history of how much oil the house uses in a yr round season? That would give us a bit of history/numbers to work with.

Plus, would you be willing to share of how many $$$'s you can spend on upgrading to a new heating system? Just a ballpark. There may be other options than burning cord wood too. 

3 oil tanks? 275 gal tanks?


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

I go through about 600 to 650 gallons of oil a year. I have 5 cords of wood sat out to dry and seasoned ready for this winter. I just never expected this many complications with an installation. Then again, it is an old house.

As far as the amount of money I have for a wood system I have enough for the forced air system so I am looking at 4000 max. I do not have enough for a boiler.


----------



## flyingcow (Sep 22, 2013)

A gasser-
Basically figure 1 cord of well seasoned wood equals 150 gals of oil, might be able to push that to 175gals. i've done this.

probably what you're looking at doing(OWB that is hot air) will be at best 1 cord - 100 gals of oil, maybe less. i really think you're looking at 75 gals at best.

If you did an inside water boiler unit, you'll need to plumb up an HX to fit in your duct work? That might be easier said than done. 

Also as mentioned before, the Kuhma might work very well for you.

Just as a note. I had a Mitsu heat pump(air) installed to supplement my heat and also so i can have a little A/C in the summer. It's an 18,000 btu unit. Works very well. Installed approx $4,0000.


----------



## maple1 (Sep 22, 2013)

I would definitely (I think) get all the oil tanks out of the basement, and put a new wood burner there. The potential oil spill liabilities alone would give me the jitters. I think the Khuma has a good rep.

Keep one oil tank outside, and protect it well - maybe put it inside a small shed on a small slab. Or two in a shed if it would make you feel better. I think that would definitely be cheaper than putting any kind of wood burner outside.

How old are the tanks? Insurance companies are very anal about them up here - my father just got a letter saying he has two weeks to replace his, and it was just replaced 6 years ago.


----------



## shawn6596 (Sep 22, 2013)

Just a note on using a conventional stove.  My step brother had problems with hot/cold spots.  All you need to do is turn on the fan on your furnace (fan only).  This will allow the return air to draw in the heat from the stove and redistribute throughout the house.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

Here is the post about my house and the layout that I started awhile ago.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/heat-large-house-englander.111295/

What I am now considering is putting the furnace on the main floor and just putting a big vent on it to blow the hot air. I will place the furnace against the laundry room with the back facing the room and the front with the heating vent facing the big opening that will go into the kitchen then through and around my house and heat will naturally rise upstairs. The issues I see are the noise of the 875 cfm blower and maybe the ugly look of putting a filter box on it. However, I see that 875 cfm blower as reassurance to push that heat across my house. What do you guys think?

The problem that I have with just using the fan on my furnace is that the cold air return goes through my unheated basement. Therefore, I see this as in effective to help move heat from wood stove cause for my house it will be cold by the time it gets to where I need it. Now, if I had a finished and heated basement or even partially heated this would work.


----------



## JP11 (Sep 22, 2013)

You have natural gas? or did I read that wrong.

it's so cheap I can't believe you'd look at anything else.

Oil just sitting around just in case.. especially 3 tanks????  something isn't adding up with your system design.  How do you heat your hot water?

JP


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

No natural gas I am glad dont want the stuff. Water is heated electrically. oil is in the three tanks and stabalizer is added. 

I really like my idea of where to put the englander. Let me know what you guys think!!


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 22, 2013)

I keep changing my mind. But the more I think about it, the englander needs in the garage connected to ductwork. My oil furnace is in the garage but everywhere I look they tell me not to put a wood furnace in an attached garage. Can I build a cement brick room for it in my garage and seal it off somehow?

Or better yet an idea that cam to me is what if I install studs near the 3/4 way mark of the garage put a door there and set up drywall insulation the works etc. Then can I put my furnace on the other side of this wall and still keep my garage?


----------



## JP11 (Sep 23, 2013)

To stay legal..

You cannot have a door that goes from the wood area into the garage area directly. 

I've thought of doing some sort of removable wall to load in wood ( I palletize mine)

Some folks ignore the code, and just remove gas tools and stored gas and such.  Not saying that's legal, but that's what some do.

As with anything.. it's all fine and dandy till you burn your house down and have to fight the insurance man.

JP


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

In my opinion, do this the right way the first time. Remove the oil tanks from your basement. At least two of them. You will not be using as much oil after your wood furnace is installed. You can use an electric pump to pump them out (are they all full of oil) and move one of the tanks outside. As long as you have some type of anti-gelling agent in the oil or you have a 50/50 mix of kerosene with it, the oil will be fine outside. I have mine on a concrete floor just under my covered porch. Or you can pay someone else to do it pump them out for you. It is not that bad of a task. And if you have to pay someone else to remove the tanks, then so be it.

Speaking of this idea of yours to partition off a section of your garage. How big is your garage? Do you really want to lose that space to a furnace and wood in there? Keep discussing this. So far it seems to me that a Kuuma in your basement hooked to your existing ductwork is the way to go. Now, if you can not afford a Kuuma, then you can look into another type of forced air Wood Furnace like the Englander or a Yukon. But I would think for the extra money you would have what is probably the most efficient forced air wood furnace out there.


----------



## maple1 (Sep 23, 2013)

We're pretty well all still in the dark about your exisiting heat distribution system and layout of it.

Also your basement & garage size & layouts.

Regardless of what you do for a new furnace - three full tanks of oil in the basement with the furnace they are hooked to in a garage on another level  (or maybe its not on another level?) just doesn't seem right to me to start with. One small oil leak & your house would be pretty well toast. I would get them out & replace with a single one close to the existing furnace, and put my new wood burner in the basement.

Again, that's without a clear picture of your entire situation.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

Sorry all for not explaining my layout just frustrated with all the issues I keep running into. As you enter my garage from the garage door it is well wide enough for me to have my truck (ram 2500) in there with work benches on both sides of it as far as length it can hold my van and caliber it in at the same time. As I walk through the garage at the end are six stairs that go upward and into my basement. Now keep walking into the basement and at about 22 feet in there is an opening door on the left that goes into the other side of the basement where the oil tanks are. If I put it in the basement will go on the main side of the basement where the oil tanks are not there and then I figured there is a wall and a door separating the oil tanks from the furnace. However, that is my second choice.

My first choice is to shorten the garage because I have the length and build a wall to separate garage from the furnace. However, I do not know the codes and rules for this. Can I just put a wall and a door and the englander can go anywhere there? Or, do I have to put the englander in its own room within the wall I built.

Lastly, what lets me put a kuuma in the garage without a wall after all isnt still a solid fuel furnace?


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

I do not know the codes in your area for sure but I believe you would have to have a fireproof wall and no door. The door would probably have to be from outside. I think it has to be it's own room. Nothing let's you put a kuuma in the garage without a wall. Why not take the oil tanks out of your basement and put wood furnace in the basement. Heat that comes off of the furnace then helps to heat your house. Therefor you burn less fuel. Take one oil tank and put it outside and leave your oil furnace where it is for back up. The duct work is right there to hook up to, simple. That is just my opinion.

On another subject. I am assuming (which I remember Benny Hill saying you should not do. You can make an ass-u-me.) that you have one chimney right now for your oil burner. So you are going to add another one, is that correct?


----------



## JP11 (Sep 23, 2013)

That's your biggest issue.  One flue.  you could power vent your oil for backup.. but that's expensive.

I'm in the "get the 3 oil tanks out of our house" camp.  Get down to a minimum of one inside, or better if you are tight on space, one outside.   You can always do the kero/#2 mix to prevent gelling.  if it's backup.. the increased cost of kero should be minimum.

by code.. you should not be able to open ONE door and go from your wood fire area to an area where you park your vehicles.  Two doors.. you're good.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

You are correct about the chimney. I am putting in a new one. As far as heat coming off of it to heat the basement I do not know how well this will work because the basement is old and has sandstone and cement walls. I think that it will not keep the heat I will just lose it in the walls no?

Also, if I do go the oil tank removing route what are code for them. Can I put them just outside my house against it, all three of them?


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

04HemiRam2500 said:


> You are correct about the chimney. I am putting in a new one. As far as heat coming off of it to heat the basement I do not know how well this will work because the basement is old and has sandstone and cement walls. I think that it will not keep the heat I will just lose it in the walls no?


 
No. The heat in the basement will help keep your house warm. Especially if you have a staircase that you can leave the door open on, then the heat will rise quickly into your house. Over the years, if you decide to in the future you can improve your walls in a number of ways to help with the insulation factor.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

If I go garage route I was going to have the door to get out of the garage on the left side of the garage. Then, you have to walk to the right to get to the stairs to take you up stairs. Thus, I was going to put a door that will open up to get you to the stairs and that are on your left. The englander will then be placed straight ahead of you as you open open that door. However, the englander will be right next to the wall that separates the garage from this area. Is that okay??


Lastly, where are the codes for a setup like this?


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

Do not rely on anyone here to tell you what is okay. You need to make sure from your local regulations. Make sure it is done right, and done right the first time. Also check with insurance company. You have to make them happy. You have to.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

Okay then, you have a good point with splitting the garage area and then insurance goes no good. THAT WILL really suck!!

Let me ask you this, since there is a opening to the basement from the garage is that an issue? However, the basement is about four feet higher than the garage. 

Let me ask you the next thing. Is there a problem with leaving the oil tanks down there? After all, they would be separated from the furnace by a 10 inch thick sandstone wall and a door?


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

Like I said, I would recommend a Kuuma. But if you can not afford it, have you thought about a combination wood/oil forced air furnace. I have no experience with this brand so you would have to do your own research, but I have read that they are a reliable furnace and the price is less. The efficiency is not as good as the Kuuma. But you would have a wood and oil fired furnace combination that only needs one chimney. And you have that already from the basement.

http://www.yukon-eagle.com/


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

04HemiRam2500 said:


> Okay then, you have a good point with splitting the garage area and then insurance goes no good. THAT WILL really suck!!
> 
> Let me ask you this, since there is a opening to the basement from the garage is that an issue? However, the basement is about four feet higher than the garage.
> 
> Let me ask you the next thing. Is there a problem with leaving the oil tanks down there? After all, they would be separated from the furnace by a 10 inch thick sandstone wall and a door?


 
I did not say the insurance goes no good. I just meant that you need to make sure what they will allow. What they will still cover. Because you don't want it to void your insurance coverage if it is done wrong.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

I would just rather not risk it with building the area in the garage and the inspector comes over and thus insurance does not like it. Meanwhile, I know that I will be safe in the basement.

Also, the problem with a yukon is that my oil furnace is in my garage with no walls near it. This makes me wonder if the contractor installed it properly? Thus, I can not put a combo furnace there because it would be in my garage in order to use the chimney I already have. P.S. it is a prefabbed chimney 6 inch. 


Overall, I am now really going for the basement. Can I leave the tanks down there though since they are separated from the furnace like I mentioned above?


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

Are all the tanks full of oil?


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

Currently no, they each have about a quarter tank in them. I was planning to fill them though next year.

I just dont see an issue with the tanks if it is separated by a thick sandstone wall and a farm ranch 3/4 plywood door?


----------



## leon (Sep 23, 2013)

If you read the national fire code and the national; plumbing code you will see why you cannot do this safely
with your desired installation idea.

You will still not be able to pass either a local plumbing or fire inspection for the national pluimbing code.

We are not trying to hinder you, only help you as your installation will not pass either code inspection.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

What plumbing codes?


----------



## JP11 (Sep 23, 2013)

I guess many of us are hung up on why you want three full tanks of oil if you plan to heat with wood.

None of us are talking about code on the oil tanks.  We're talking about floor space usage, and the idea that you have a whole bunch of expensive, STINKY stuff that can make one hell of a mess in your basement.  If you're not going to use it.. get rid of it.  Get down to one, and even better get down to one outside.

You need to really look into where you're going to put this wood burner.  Where will the chimney go.  Where will you bring your wood in via, and where will you store wood.  These things are all important.  The heat will flow upstairs if there's a way for air to go.  If you have a bad setup in the eyes of code OR your insurance carrier, you've got trouble..  Or if you have a bad setup in terms of bringing in the wood and using it.. either will cause you big headaches.

JP


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

The flue will go out the wall and up the house. The wood will be brought in through the garage I will go up the six stairs in the garage to get to the basement the furnace will be at the end of the basement. Thus, the furnace will be right there and separated from the oil tanks by the wall and door. 

If I have someone like local fire chief come in I just want to be sure that my placement will be approved by him will this setup work?


----------



## brenndatomu (Sep 23, 2013)

OK, I had some of the same issues as you do before I installed my Yukon. Oil heat, 650-700 gallons of oil usage per winter previously, 1 chimney, 1 flue, no extra room cause of 2 oil tanks in the basement, furnace pretty much had to go into the furnace room due to layout of walls, no place to put a second chimney, how my duct work layout is, etc. etc. etc. That's why I went with a Yukon with oil backup (cause it uses 1 flue), well, that and the fact that that I could find nice used Yukons for reasonable $$$.
After living with it through 1 winter now, I found I used only about 5 gallons of oil for the whole winter, so I'm thinking you _definitely_ wouldn't need _3_ tanks anymore, 1 would be more than enough! And FYI, I wouldn't worry about having the oil storage in the basement with a wood furnace, the are TONS of homes that have this combo. When is the last time you heard of a house burning down cause the oil tank leaked and the wood furnace blew up?! Heating oil/fumes have a high ignition point, not explosive like gasoline, as far as that goes, why is it any different having a wood furnace in the basement with the oil storage there, vs oil furnace? Fire in both, both using air out of the basement for combustion...

Now I like my current setup, but looking back, here is what I would do if I could do it over, _and this may apply to you_. I would get _rid_ of my oil furnace/tanks (that would open up a lot of storage room in my "oil tank room" (which used to be the coal storage area years ago) I'd sell the old furnace, the oil and the tanks on CL, around here those tanks seem to bring $100 bucks or so, and it is pretty easy to sell "used" heating oil at $3 per gallon or maybe a bit more, and the old furnace for maybe a couple hundred? That would give you a extra $1-1.5K to work with.
Now then, find a nice used (or new scratch and dent special) high efficiency propane furnace on CL (there are tons!) Put that in for your "main" heat to keep the insurance man happy, you won't need a chimney for it, just 2" PVC pipe out through the basement wall, then get a 100 gallon or so tank to run it (heck, if it is truly just your "backup heat" maybe you could get away with a 20 gallon BBQ tank!) If you were planning to put up a new chimney, I figure that for about $1k or so of your install cost, so now, you need no new chimney, that would free up another $1k to work with, or $$$ to put a liner in your old chimney if need be.
Now you could spend a lil more to buy a quality wood furnace, (something with secondary combustion)(I like the new Drolet Tundra, and the Kuumas are_ really_ nice, but that may be a budget buster for you) and it can be installed to your existing chimney and tied into your existing duct work or whatever works the best! Easy peasey, problems solved! 
Just a note, you should be able to heat your place on 5 cords per year, I did mine last winter, and based on past oil usage, we have similar heating loads.

Hope this makes some kind of sense, I kind of typed it out quick like, I know I can ramble and bounce around sometimes, hey, it made sense in my head!  I'll answer any questions you have if you don't understand, feel free to critique...


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

I do not see an issue with the tanks separated by the thick sandstone wall and door. My concern is the fire chief when he comes here and if he sees a problem with it then I am done. Are there any codes to address this.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

Another option I wanted to get you opinion on is if I could move the oil tanks into the attached garage. The oil furnace is in the garage so what are the codes distances as to how close I can place them to the furnace. Currently there is a fuel line that goes all the way across my basement to the furnace in the garage we usually just step over it. It will be nice to have this out of the way anyhow. Also, when the oil guy comes to fill up he would no longer need near all of his 150 foot line to fill up my tanks. I hate to have the guy drag that thing all the way across my house. 

If I can't do this I am back to putting the englander upstairs. However, my main concern was pipes freezing because no heat will be in the basement now. The basement is about 6 feet underground though at the floor of it.


----------



## brenndatomu (Sep 23, 2013)

Putting the tanks in the garage should be no problem, they are often quite close to the furnace. I'm not sure if there is a code requirement for the distance or not, if there is I would say it is in inches, not feet. A quick call to your local HVAC shop would likely answer that question...


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

what about vents for the oil tanks. I know that my oil tank now has pvc vents that take it outside.

Also, what about the furnace being in the basement where the basement is only separated from the garage by the six stairs going up and a door?


----------



## brenndatomu (Sep 23, 2013)

Vents/ filler pipe should be pretty easy to run to an exterior garage wall, no?

I assume you are referring to the wood furnace being separated from the garage by 1 wall/ 6 steps? Did you ever find out if that is even a concern by your local codes? I wouldn't think that it would really be a concern because if your garage floor is 6 steps lower than your basement floor, any leaking gasoline fumes in the garage will stay down in the garage area. (most potential residential garage fumes are heavier than air) Heck, if your existing oil furnace is in the garage now and nobody has a problem with it...
There would be some pretty easy ways around the "2 walls 2 doors" problem if that turned out to be an issue, one is, to build a partition wall to make a "furnace room", not saying you wouldn't ever "forget" to close the furnace room door though! (to let the radiant heat circulate....) 

Sounds like you need to do some homework on what your local codes are and what your HO insurance will allow you to get away with before asking too many more questions of us internet arm chair quarterbacks about the specific details of your install.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Sep 23, 2013)

where can I go online for the local codes etc..

Lastly, my basement does get damp often this is one reason why I am not looking to finish the basement because drywall wood studs will get ruined etc.. 

Therefore, if I put the furnace down there there is usually water on the flue wont this cause premature rust out for the englander cause of the moisture?


----------



## brenndatomu (Sep 23, 2013)

Call your local city/county offices to ask to talk to the appropriate people, call your insurance guy, call the fire chief, call your local woodstove or HVAC shop. If you start asking around, people will point you in the right direction.

Use treated lumber on/near the floor and bathroom grade drywall (greenboard I think?) it will take high moisture and then leave the bottom of the drywall 1/2" up off the concrete too.

Any appliance in the basement are supposed to be up on blocks, at least an inch or two (or more if you have the headroom for it) This will keep them up out of the water for most "floods" especially since you have a basement door straight out to your lower garage, the water can't get too deep! This also allows for a little air flow under the appliance to keep it dry or to drain/dry out after a "flood"


----------



## maple1 (Sep 23, 2013)

I would hazard a guess that your oil furnace being in the garage is a no-no as it is. Has your insurance company ever done an inspection?

We can only help in generalities, and don't seem to be saying what you want to hear. We can't tell you what is code & not - if you want to be sure, get a local code person and get them to tell you. Sometimes it is not black & white but also interpretation. Same with insurance.

You need to get over the oil tank hangup - it is holding you hostage. If they're only 1/4 full now, and you won't be filling them until next year - you definitely don't need three of them, and I would definitely consider getting rid of the oil all together (I broke my addiction last year & am very glad I did) & going with a gas/LP furnace for backup (officially primary) heat source as already suggested, or something electric. I would hazard a guess that a new furnace in the basement would be OK - because there you've got good vertical separation not possible with a garage install. But you need to verify locally. Plus having it there should keep your basement warm to help with the pipe freezing & moisture things, and the heat off it will rise into your house.


----------



## leon (Sep 23, 2013)

04HemiRam2500 said:


> What plumbing codes?


 


The National Electrical Code
The National Plumbing Code

Your local plumbing and electrical inspectors will explain all of this to you.
Your insurer is also going want to have thier inspector look at this if they
have rules for wood burning apliances. If they have no regulations with
regard to wood and coal burning appliances the national code applies as
far as I know.


----------



## Gasifier (Sep 23, 2013)

You will have some hoops you have to jump through. It is all part of the fun. But, if you follow the code and insurance rules, take your time and do it right, you will be one happy camper heating with wood and saving money. Lovin it every time you feel that heat and know it is not from oil. Keeping your house a little warmer and not worrying about the oil bill.


----------



## woodsmaster (Sep 25, 2013)

I had fuel oil heat when I was a kid and I hated it. Stinky, messy, unreliable. I will NEVER have it again if I can help it.


----------



## brenndatomu (Sep 25, 2013)

Wow, that doesn't sound like much fun! The only stink I ever remember having is from the oil if you spilled a bit during a filter change or bleedin the pump, it goes away after a day or two though. Messy? I suppose, if you have a leak or something. As far as reliability, ours was always as reliable as any other kind of heat.
Hopefully, I will never have oil for anything other than backup heat again! Too daggum expensive!
Wood heat rocks !!


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 10, 2013)

Okay after alot of consideration and verifying where to install the furnace. I have come to the conclusion and others have informed me as well that the only way to make the furnace work is to remove the oil tanks. I personally do not want to remove the oil tanks! Thus, I have researched and the decision is final. I am going with the Englander 30-NCH at the Home Depot. It says it is rated for 2200 square feet. However, I compared the size of the firebox and it is massive. For example, the Englander 30-NCH has a 3.62 cu ft firebox (on the home depot website I calculated 3.62 but the website says 3.5 cu ft) meanwhile the us stove that states it can heat 3000 square feet has a 3.709 cu ft firebox (on the home depot website I calculated 3.709 but the website says 3.0 cu ft). Anyhow, I think that rating for the Englander is well below what it can heat. I think that since I like it cooler in my house 65 68 max. I can use fans to heat my house well. 

Now on to where I am locating it. It will be in my 900 square foot game room near the hallway that leads to the two story part of my house. I am now looking at a built hearth pad to put it on. 

The problem that I am having now is whether or not to put the flue through the roof or the wall. Personally, I am thinking go through the wall. Here is why. My roof is a cathedral ceiling however, there is an air space between the ceiling studs and the actual roof plywood part etc. The gap is a good two feet. So, I would need to install one of those attic shields and because my roof is slanted. I would have to frame it out to make the flue go in flush with the ceiling. This is a pain in the but!! Instead, if I go out the wall then up and I am done. Also, more good news is that it will be about 12 to 13 feet away from the other roof of the two story part of the house. This means that I only need three feet up of chimney pipe. I will measure tomorrow to give you an exact measure to be sure!!

So, here is my question If I put it through the wall it will come out and go up the side of the house. Since this is a one floor game room, the tee that is outside will be about 15 feet of the ground. Is this okay. I thought that the tee needs to be close to the ground because this is where you clean out the chimney no??? Therefore, am I allowed to do this? Lastly, I think that it is better to have most of the flue inside so can I put the flue going outside of the house near the top of the roof near the gutters? Let me know if you need pics to show you what I mean.

Thanks again so much everyone can't wait to heat the house with wood for first time this winter!!


----------



## Gasifier (Oct 11, 2013)

04HemiRam2500 said:


> Okay after alot of consideration and verifying where to install the furnace. I have come to the conclusion and others have informed me as well that the only way to make the furnace work is to remove the oil tanks. I personally do not want to remove the oil tanks! Thus, I have researched and the decision is final. I am going with the Englander 30-NCH at the Home Depot. It says it is rated for 2200 square feet. However, I compared the size of the firebox and it is massive. For example, the Englander 30-NCH has a 3.62 cu ft firebox (on the home depot website I calculated 3.62 but the website says 3.5 cu ft) meanwhile the us stove that states it can heat 3000 square feet has a 3.709 cu ft firebox (on the home depot website I calculated 3.709 but the website says 3.0 cu ft). Anyhow, I think that rating for the Englander is well below what it can heat. I think that since I like it cooler in my house 65 68 max. I can use fans to heat my house well.
> 
> Now on to where I am locating it. It will be in my 900 square foot game room near the hallway that leads to the two story part of my house. I am now looking at a built hearth pad to put it on.
> 
> ...


 
PICS would help. If you can give us several pictures of inside and out. So your game room is not in the basement. Is that right? And you are not removing the oil tanks. Is that right? Just curious. Whatever you decide works best for you. I like the idea of going through the wall myself. I don't think putting holes through the roof is a good idea, but that is just me. They do make angling brackets for a roof install that hold the complete weight of your chimney and put the weight of your chimney right on your roof. But going through the wall makes it easier and you do not have to worry about a leak if everything on roof does not come out to be 100% waterproof. Let us know man!


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 11, 2013)

Okay, I will post pics shortly to show you what I mean. You are correct my game room is not in the basement and I am not removing the oil tanks. I am thinking about going through the wall for the reasons that you mentioned.

My concern about going through the wall though is the hearth pad. The englander has t be 16 inches from the wall and it says that the hearth pad needs eight inches behind the stove. Although, I thought that the hearth had to go underneath the horizontal part of the flue going out the wall?


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 11, 2013)

I got a paper in from my travelers insurance it says that my stove has to be 36 inches from the wall!!

Am I able to put double wall pipe and have the stove 8 inches from the wall. Or do I need to buy the side heat shields in order to get it that close to the wall?

Or am I even allowed to do this with my home insurance.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 11, 2013)

As has been said before - ask your insurance company.


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 11, 2013)

I asked company they said to install it according to the manual. I am thinking about installing the side heat shield anybody use them?


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 11, 2013)

After reviewing the manual I am a little confused about the clearance from the back of the stove to the wall. To get closer to the wall for the Englander I need to buy the side heat shields?


----------



## maple1 (Oct 11, 2013)

04HemiRam2500 said:


> I asked company they said to install it according to the manual.


 
I think you said they said it had to be 36 inches - didn't you?

Then you also said they said to install per manual. So which is it?

The manual (if I'm looking at the right one) says (side/rear/corner) is 20/14/15 no shields, 19/8/14 shields, and 20/5/15 shields & double wall connector.

It also says later on that some local codes may requires 36" and to check with local officials - so we're back to ask your insurance company, AND local code people.

I don't think anyone here wants to stick their neck out & tell you what your clearances should be, and you shouldn't likely take what anyone here would tell you & run with it - you don't want to be hung out to dry if you ever have any problems later.

Think I'm out of this one now.

(I'd still get rid of the tanks - sorry, couldn't resist.)


----------



## 04HemiRam2500 (Oct 11, 2013)

The insurance company said to follow the manual so that is what I am doing. However, I am confused with the rear clearance because a single wall flue pipe needs 18 inches thus 14 inches of the stove wont work. That is why I am confused if I buy just the shield how can I do 8 inches for the rear clearance?


----------

