# Identify Glacier Bay insert



## coldinnj (Oct 26, 2006)

I need to identify whether a stove is designed for Wood  or Coal.
I understand that some can be used for both however they are not best at both. Coal needs air from bottom, wood needs supply from top. Other varriables apply probably. The stove in question is an old Glacier Bay fireplace insert. It has a solid bottom door with an air control knob and an ash pan. The Top also has a solid door with an air control knob. Between the bottom and top there are grates which operate via a removable handle. Firebrick surrounds the combustion chamber. Brackets in sides to accomodate a baffle for the top (this is missing so I don't know the measurements to make a new one yet). The baffle would sit at an angle from front to back at appox 40 degrees (guess). 8" round hole in top back half for exhaust combustion air. No blowers. firebox approx.18" x 17" with brick installed. Baffle should be approx. 20.5" wide by ??? deep. Room circulation air enters through bottom opening almost entire width of unit but only approx. 1" high, leaves through same design at top front of unit. Has legs but they are removable. Has removable heavy plates that can lay on top of shaker grates to basically close off bottom.
My unknowledgeable thought is this is designed for coal but by using the plates and air control knobs it can also function for wood. 
I have excellent detailed pictures, having difficulty posting here will post later if possible and if someone desires.
Also is there a place I can purchase a blower for it. As the opening in the bottom is so small (the door overhangs the opening a little) and placing a blower on top has the heat problems that may damage unit. I'm not sure if it is feasible.


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## HalJason (Oct 26, 2006)

If you're talking about the stove I believe you are (pictured here) it is designed for both wood and coal.  We had one in the house I grew up in (that house was just sold last week, along with the stove).

If we're talking about the same stove....

There is a plate that goes inside the firebox, blocking the bottom half (or so) of the door opening, so that coal can be loaded in and not fall out on your feet.  Slide the plate in for coal, out for wood.  We shook down the fire a bit each evening (using the detatchable handle) and brought the ashes out.  Shake gently when burning wood, or you'll end up with much less hot stuff on top than you'd like.  Also, be careful burning anything that may have nails in it.  Hot nails tangled in a hot grate that won't shake isn't a recipe for a fun evening as I recall .

As for the blower, it mounts on the side (ours was on the right hand side, when looking at it from the front).  I believe when the blower was used, the opening under the ash-pan door was sealed off using a provided plate.  Keep the plate off for convection, put it back on for blower use.

Without having access to the house/stove, I can't give much more info myself, but I can get details from my father who I'm sure remembers more than I do.

-Hal


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

here are the pictures now for the Glacier Bay
Entire unit without shield / fireplace mask installed
Other pics to follow


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## webbie (Oct 27, 2006)

These were coal-wood models and very heavy duty.....

You might be able to find replacement blowers at a place like woodsmans or stove parts unlimited. If not, you can probably get something generic at Grainers which will fit.

Quite a few of these out there, so you might (or we might) even dig up a manual sooner or later.


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

Thank you for the information.
Sorry I don't know how to post more then one picture at a time so here is the next picture.
As to the reply about the blower. Do you have any pictures of the blower setup as I don't see how to use a plate to cut off the air you refer to. Where does it go? If it were to block off the air below the bottom door then how would the air circulate around the  stove to pick up the heat? 
The bottom opening is only about 1" high. I don't see a blower on the market tha is that small. If a blower were mounted on the top I would think the heat would ruin the blower motor very quickly.
Also as you mentioned it is supposed to be both wood or coal. From what I heard a stove is only best for one or the other. Which is this best for?


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks agin for the info.
Here is an inside picture.
The thick heavy plate laying in the bottom is removable. I assume it should have another or two and that the plates are for blocking the grates so air does not come in from the bottom when burning wood. If I am wrong pleas tell me. The plate fits perfectly in width. Unless this plate is what Haljason mentioned. If so I still don't know what would be used for blocking the grates for wood burning then.
The blowers you mentioned... do they go top or bottom? Any idea what CFM? 
Can anyone tell me how to post multiple pictures at one time on my response so I am not having to multiple reply?
That manual sounds like a fantastic idea. Let me know please.


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

sorry forgot the picture. Here it is.


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## webbie (Oct 27, 2006)

I think it was an external squirrel cage type blower - possibly with a short tube to connect to the inlet - inlet at bottom, should be evident by both holes?

Back in the day, before EPA, stoves could burn both fuels well - of course, it will not burn wood like a newer clean burners. Also, this thing holds a lot of coal, so you don't want to use coal until it gets really cold.

Make certain install is up to date by using a direct connection to the flue and a tight fitting block off plate. Plenty of info here about both. You can get round to oval tubes which will allow you to do this right.


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## webbie (Oct 27, 2006)

To upload multiple pics, choose one and then hit the Preview Button, then choose the next. You are limited to a certain file size in total in each post as you will see.


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

"should be evident by both holes?"
Not sure of what "both holes"  you speak of. 

Our home is fairly large, maybe 3500 sqf, old- 1800's, zero insulation, lots of windows most rooms have 5 which are all single pane hand rubbed glass (original windows and sashes), most windows are approx. 6' high by 30" wide, 9' ceilings. The first floor (where fireplace is located - 4 rooms all very open, the second floor not as open (bedrooms), third floor one room.
Therefore we will need a blower system if this is to do the job.
 Too strong a unit - results in air not getting heated.
 Too weak a unit - result air will not circulate to the needed areas.
Old furnace:  Oneida Royal - 14,400 BTU  - Installed 1980 - Stove coal
The home was heated by a large old hand shoveled furnace in the basement. No Stocker, No Automatic anything. I control the combustion draft by opening the bottom flap. No duct work to speak of, just the big 3' x 3' grate over top of it with 2 returns placed approx 8' away from the grate, these returns are ducted down to the very large blower. So it just blows the air accross the furnace kidney and right up the grate getting its return air from the 2 small vents. Blower is automatic as I have installed a device to have it kick on when air gets hot enough.
However this system used to heat the home incredibly well (so hot it melted our thick wedding candle in a china cabinet in another room one winter) and very cheaply, with approx. 1/2 coal bucket of ash a week a the most. I threw a couple of shovels full on it in the morning, did the same before going to bed, had the draft door shut almost all the way.  Normally we could have some windows open on very cold days to cool off a bit. At times when we looked down at the grate we could see the furnace glowing red.
 Unfortunately the furnace no longer does it's job. Keeps going out, tons of ashes, little heat. Either the coal around here s**ks anymore (I've been told it does) or it just has air leaks I cannot find. I've tried changing Barometrics, installing a damper. Changed the stack pipe to chimney. The baffle had melted away so I had my welder make a new one (may not be correct size as we had nothing to base it on) Chimney seems ok, get lots of draft as the barometric must be set pretty high or it goes horizontal. 

So the idea is to try to heat the home as best I can with this Glacier Bay unit installed in the fireplace on the first floor.


"Make certain install is up to date by using a direct connection to the flue and a tight fitting block off plate."
Am I correct in that all I have to do is run the new pipe up approx. 4' so it is into the old Clay flue liner? The Glacier bay has an 8" round stack pipe opening. My chimney is approx. 28' above the top of the stove.

 "Plenty of info here about both. You can get round to oval tubes which will allow you to do this right."
I want to do it right. Saftey is paramount. Direct me or I will look around.
This forum is great. You people are very helpful.


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

more pics:
"Baffle" shows where it mounts but it is missing, easy to make though.

"Stack hole" shows top where combustion air outlet is located. 8" however I do not see a damper control? I would think this would be needed. Again probably easy to make, a flat plate on a rod extending accross the top to the front,  but not sure if it is supposed to have one.
I have seen new units with dampers. Anyone know if this is supposed to have one?


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

here is a better baffle shot


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## HalJason (Oct 27, 2006)

That "heavy plate" that you have covering the grate is in fact plate that should be standing on it's long edge, just inside the firebox door for "coal mode" and sitting on a shelf somewhere for "wood mode".  The only time it should be on the grates as it is in your picture is for "summer storage" 

The blower, does not mount on the bottom as it does with most inserts that I've seen, it mounts on the side.  here is another ebay auction of the same stove.  You can see the blower on the right hand side.  When the blower is in use, the air opening under the ash-pan door gets covered with a plate, and the air intake is through the blower.  When the blower is not in use, the plate gets removed for convection.

If by some chance my father took the manual with him when he moved, rather than leaving it at the house, I'll scan it and get you a copy.

-Hal


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## webbie (Oct 27, 2006)

No stack damper needed unless you see where there was one - I don't think there was. I meant "bolt holes" as far as the blower, but it is always possible it fastens some other way. The baffle could be fabbed from heavy steel or lighter stainless....use some bends if possible to stiffen or it will look like a potato chip before long!


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## HalJason (Oct 27, 2006)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> No stack damper needed unless you see where there was one - I don't think there was. I meant "bolt holes" as far as the blower, but it is always possible it fastens some other way. The baffle could be fabbed from heavy steel or lighter stainless....use some bends if possible to stiffen or it will look like a potato chip before long!



No damper was stock on this, at least not the one we had (and it was installed new).  The baffle was just a large steel plate, had no bends for stiffening, and looked like a potato chip as long as I can remember! 

-Hal


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## coldinnj (Oct 27, 2006)

I looked around the site.
I do not see an answer to my question as to whether I need to run my stack pipe only about 4' or 5' to reach into the clay lined flue section of the chimney or do I need to run all the way up to the top. approx. 28'.
In either case do I need stainless steel? Black pipe? 24 ga galvanize?
Do I need to do any special cleaning to the chimney other then a simple brushing first? Prior to burning coal in it.

With what I am doing now... the chimney is 1 large chimney made with 2 seperate chambers (flues). One side has always been for the coal furnace, terminates in the basement at the stack pipe. The other has always been for the wood burning fireplace. Terminates at fireplace, with it's own opening in basement for cleanout from fireplace. The 2 chambers do not join except at fianl opening at end of chimney on roof.  I am trying to set it up to run the coal (Glacier Bay) in the fireplace side. It has never showed any signs of creosote buildup. Used to be inspected and cleaned by a sweep until he told me not to bother every year as it butned so clean and I tend to clean it my self with just a wire chimney brush. In addition I have run those "creosote cleaning logs" in it.

Also as to some of the other info I found and as I have done all my heating in this home with a manual coal furnace for about 15 years also many years ago I heated a livestock good sized building with another hand operated coal stove. I may have some insights or things to contribute. No expert of course, just research - trial and many errors.
This project is a little different. In my previous endeavers I had the setups either using their own stack pipes begining to end or stack pipe into chimney designed for same.
BTW this site when listing coal sizes only goes up as high as "chestnut"? I still burn "stove" coal. Hard to get decent quality though. 
The best around used to be "Lehigh Coal and Navigation" near Tamaqua, PA. Most people refer to it as "Old Company Lehigh".
Great quality, not much different in price. Unfortunately they went out of business. The last I heard the coal being sold there was often from other lines brought in and mixed or sold outright.
Now no one seems to have any good coal. I've tried, Blashaks, Coal Contractors, South Tamaqua coal pockets, Reding, Jedo Highland. Ive done my own kinds of tests as to which burns hotter, ash quantities, smell, clinkers, burn time, ease of starting.


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## coldinnj (Oct 30, 2006)

Webmaster
Can you please direct me to the website for "woodsmans" I have not found them.
I am still in need of the blower which have not been able to locate yet.
The opening on the side for the squirrel cage blower is 16" high x 2 1/4" wide although the Blower unit itself is larger, it must cover that size opening.
I have more detailed pictures of the proper blower (from someone else) if you would like.
I do not know the CFM specifications.
If not any other source new or used would be appreciated.
Here is the Front of Blower


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## coldinnj (Oct 30, 2006)

Here is the Blower Rear view (Glacier Bay)


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## BrotherBart (Oct 30, 2006)

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/


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## coldinnj (Oct 30, 2006)

Thank you BrotherBart.

Found their site thanks to you.
This is going to be a challenge. I looked at their site. As they do not have Glacier Bay listed. I tried calling them. The lady told  could not help me. They doi not have a cross reference. I would have to know exactly which blower I wanted. I need to know all the measurements, CFM etc and then try to match it up. They suggest that I look locally.
Anyone know the measurements, CFM etc for the Blower? Or perhaps a model number and manufacturer? I am assuming Glacier Bay did not make the blower unit themselves.


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## BrotherBart (Oct 30, 2006)

coldinnj said:
			
		

> Thank you BrotherBart.
> 
> Found their site thanks to you.
> This is going to be a challenge. I looked at their site. As they do not have Glacier Bay listed. I tried calling them. The lady told  could not help me. They doi not have a cross reference. I would have to know exactly which blower I wanted. I need to know all the measurements, CFM etc and then try to match it up. They suggest that I look locally.
> Anyone know the measurements, CFM etc for the Blower? Or perhaps a model number and manufacturer? I am assuming Glacier Bay did not make the blower unit themselves.



Grainger seems to handle pretty much every OEM motor and fan assembly ever made. Might see what numbers you can get off of the motor assembly and give them a try.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml 

In fact, post the identification info off of the motor here and I will do some looking too.


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## coldinnj (Oct 31, 2006)

OK, BrotherBart
attached please find 2 photos of a paper tag on the transformer on the motor unit. This is the only identifiable tag I could see on the unit. It is on a unit at another location that I dod not have access to. Theses are the best phots I could aquire.
Judge for yourself but I believe the numbers are:
712  902525
026274 / 12

perhaps the  /  is really a 7


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## coldinnj (Oct 31, 2006)

BrotherBart After posting I see the second picture looks pretty bad, but if you click on it it will clear up alot.
Thanks again for the help. Hope we can find this unit.
If not I may have to try adapting something different.


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## begreen (Oct 31, 2006)

What is wrong with the current fan? Does it work at all? If not, is it the fan or the control bad? What is the actual dimmensions of the squirrel cage fan inside of the blower housing? I may have a Graingers squirrel cage fan that would work for you. But you would need to be somewhat hand to replace / adapt it.


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## coldinnj (Oct 31, 2006)

Hi BeGreen

The big problem with my current blower  / fan...
               Is...
                      ...I don't have one. 
I never did have one.
The pictures and information on the fan I posted are from someone elses unit. I no longer have access to their unit for information. I do not have the squirrel cage, fan, motor, or housing for the fan setup.
I was fortunate enough to be able to acquire pictures of someone elses blower unit only. The numbers from the unit posted earlier are from those same pictures. Location of the tag seen below.
Had I known better at the time I would have tried to get more information on the fan unit. Now it is too late.
If someone reads this and has the other information ie. measurements, CFM,  that would be great.
I may have to make some sort of housing out of sheet metal myself to hold it.


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## LisaR (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi,
I have this same Glacier Bay woodburning insert in my old house. I just noticed tonight that the cord from the blower is brittle and has multiple cracks in the outer covering. Does anyone know how I can replace the cord so that I can use the blower safely?
Thanks!
LisaR


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## coldinnj (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi LisaR

Now here is a deal for you.
I will replace the cord for you FREE. I am more than qualified.
If you are local I'll pick up the blower, do the cord, and return it.
If not local, you ship it to me, I'll repair it and send it back.
My benefit will be, I'll be able to examine it and then duplicate the blower unit for myself.
I can even post the speccifications here for everyone else.
Is that a good enough deal?


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## LisaR (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi,
I'm not sure how to take the blower off the unit.. however, that being said... where are you located? NJ here... 
Thanks!


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## LisaR (Nov 6, 2006)

LOL... seeing how you are cold in NJ... I take it that you are in NJ too.. 
Email me at LAW1259@aol.com and we'll figure out how you can pick this up.... 
thanks


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

Hi. I saw this post and said to myself - "FINALLY" - some info on this thing I have sitting in my fireplace.  We moved recently into this house and it had the very same Glacier Bay insert being discussed here.  I am a real "beginner".  Never had a fireplace before and know next to nothing about them let alone fireplace inserts.

We had the fireplace and chimney cleaned when we moved in and were excited about using it.  We have had 2 BAD experiences.  Perhaps I can get some advice from the knowledgeable people here.  On our first try the fire started well. Looked nice and bright and gave of a lot of heat.  But then it began to smoke.  I had the door open with the screen inserted when this happened.  Next I closed the door and left it closed until the fire died and the heat stopped.  But our house REAKED with the odor of burning wood.

On my second try we started a fire once again.  Things were going well.  I had the screen in again with the door open (we wanted to see the fire) but my wife began to complain that it was making here nose run - so once again I closed the door and I turned both of the knobs on the upper and lower doors tightly shut thinking that this would put out the fire (remember I am a BEGINNER).  That door stayed hot for TWO DAYS.  And (without opening the door) at the end of the second day we began to smell that odor again (although this time not as bad).

What are we doing wrong?  Is it ok to burn a wood fire with the door open?  When the door is closed should those knobs be open all the way?  What is their real purpose?  I tried burning real wood and one of those fabricated logs you can buy in the grocery store (although the man who cleaned my chimney said he didn't recommend them).  Are they really that bad? Is it normal to smell a pungent burning odor?  I believe everything is set up properly because we had a certified chimney sweep do the initial cleaning.

Any advice would be MUCH appreciated.


Thanks,

Pat


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## coldinnj (Dec 7, 2006)

I wouldn't burn it with the door open.
I would always have the doors closed when burning in that unit.
As to the knobs you speak of... Both are for combustion air control / regul;ation.
The upper knob, the one on the upper door is to be used when burning wood. Wood gets it's air from above.
The lower one, on the bottom door is for Coal burning. Coal getsit's air from underneath.
When burning coal close the top knob completely. Although it is not a bad idea to open it prior to openeing the top door.
When burning wood close the bottom knob.
Both knobs get adusted to allow air in in the amounts you want based on regulating the fire. Everyone finds with practice what works best for you depending on the quality of the fuel you are burning. Some find opening the knob full when first starting the fire helps, then back it down as it starts going good.
If shutting the knobs the fire still burns for well for a long time I would check for air leaks, perhaps the door gaskets.
If using coal there is an insert o be placed at the front of the fire pot.


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks coldinnj for your fast reply and advice.  I guess this is not the kind of unit to sit in front of and watch the fire burn - which is what we were hoping for.  Remember, I am a real NEOPHYTE when it comes to these matters.  So I take it that since the door stayed warm for so long that I have a leak somewhere.  I will have to do some investigating.  I did see gaskets for sale at home depot.  What about the odor?  Is the normal?


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## coldinnj (Dec 7, 2006)

usually door gasket can be bought in a cord.
Odor is not normal. Either leak at unit or stove pipe. Or if the unit has not been used in a long time perhaps there is dirt / debris on the unit outside somewhere that is burning / melting when it heats up.
As to the door getting hot. When it is burning hot, you want that. It is one of the surfaces designed to give off heat to the living spaces.


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

Yes - I understood the door should be hot to transfer heat to the room.  But I thought that by closing the knobs tight would choke the fire out quickly.  But the door stayed warm to the touch for almost 48 hours!  I will look into replacing the gasket.  We were hoping to use the fireplace more for aesthetic effect - you know, the crackling fireplace and all that - but it seems that is not what the unit is designed for .  We have hot water heat to heat the house.  Any opinion on the artificial logs you can buy at places like Home Depot?


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

One more question.  Is leaving the door open with the screen inserted a safety concern or just a heating efficiency issue?  As I mentioned in an earlier post we aren't really concerned about the heating issue.


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## sailor61 (Dec 7, 2006)

I grew up with one these and my father still burns it on occasion.  It was an excellent piece for it's time and is still a workhorse.  I'll have to look, but as I recall, the bottom vent knob had several small cut ots on it - as such oyu could never truly choke off the fire -it always got a small amount of air flow.

As to the odor problem - when the stove is cold use a shop vac with a long thing attachmetn and vacuum out the top and bottom air openings for the airflow.  I know that on several occasions we had a mouse that had somehow taken up residence in there.

As for being able to watch the fire - there used to be an optional, removable door with glass panel that went on like a firescreen. Supposedly it would maintain the correct airflow but give you view of the fire.
Never had one so I'm not sure how well they worked out - but will make the guess that given the age of the stove and the lack of an airwash for the door - that they blackened up quickly unless you had it roaring.

We used our's, for many years, as a primary  source to heat a 1500 ft ranch and attached 125 ft single glazed greenhouse with no problems.  Burned wood 90% of the time and coal during the bitter days in dead of winter.


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks for the info sailor.  I am wandering around blind here - this is all new to me.  I appreciate your advice.  So I assume it's not a good thing to burn the fire with just the screen in then?  I know this kills the heating transfer principle but we wanted the "cozy" effect.  Maybe the way for us to go is to just scrap the insert, buy some fireplace hardware and burn wood that way.


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## sailor61 (Dec 7, 2006)

I'll ask my father what he recalls about burning it with the door open.  I think there might have been a screen available.  So long as the screen you're using  fits properly there should be no safety issues with it.  However I would never go off and leave it with just the screen in the door


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## patfrederick (Dec 7, 2006)

I would like to hear what your father has to say.  No I wouldn't leave the fire unattended.  The screen is definitely made for the stove.  It has 2 wooden handles that don't get hot and it locks in place.  Thanks again for your help and the others who have offered advice - this board is great!


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## panhead (Nov 13, 2007)

Well, I don't know if this thread is completely dead or not, but i happen to have one of these glacier bay inserts in a house i just bought and searching for info on it brought me to your forum.  Mine has a blower on the right side, that has been fabbed to fit, not original.  Looks pretty simple.  Someone just made a sheetmetal
rectangular box to fit the right side opening, then made a hole in the side of it, attached a round piece of sheetmetal that a blower snout can fit into and that was the extent of it.  Works pretty well.  If anyone still needs a look at this, i'll take some pics and post em....

That being said, i would love it if somone found a manual for this thing, i still don't have one either....


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