# Mini Ice Age



## CTFIRE (Aug 9, 2013)

Saw this article

http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/08...-agemuch-colder-wintersdramatic-consequences/

Combined with news that the sun will flip poles in the next 4 months. You may want to add a few cords to your 14/15 and 15/16 stacks.


----------



## NortheastAl (Aug 9, 2013)

First warming, then cooling. Goes to show that no one knows what is gong to happen a few years out. Stock up on wood, just in case this guy's right.


----------



## ScotO (Aug 9, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> First warming, then cooling. Goes to show that no one knows what is gong to happen a few years out. Stock up on wood, just in case this guy's right.


Any excuse to hoard more firewood is fine by me!!  Bring on the cold!!


----------



## Woody Stover (Aug 9, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> First warming, then cooling. Goes to show that no one knows what is gong to happen a few years out.


Part of the warming scenario is that warming and melting of the ice caps causes more evaporation of ocean water, hence more moisture in the air which produces more snow. They have a long way to go before they really start to understand what's happening; There are a lot of influences at play; It's very complex. They mention solar activity, for example. There is warming on other planet as well, and they aren't burning oil there as far as I know. 


Scotty Overkill said:


> Any excuse to hoard more firewood is fine by me!! Bring on the cold!!


I was in total agreement until the 'Bring on the cold' part. I hate wearing long pants!


----------



## begreen (Aug 9, 2013)

CTFIRE said:


> Saw this article
> 
> http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/08...-agemuch-colder-wintersdramatic-consequences/


 
Tried hard, but I couldn't find the source article on the referred newspaper's website (http://jyllands-posten.dk/). A google search for "lille istid" did not turn it up either. Couldn't find the author on the company website either. Considering it is translated from Danish, hard to say much about it. It may be wrong or it may be right. There are lots of predictions for this. Ask me in 20 years if they are true.

Climate depot is funded by CFACT, largest donor Exxon Mobil and the uber conservative Carthage Foundation. Not that that would have any influence here.


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Aug 9, 2013)

Nothing new here. During most of the 70's they were forecasting a second coming of the ice age. Then that year when Lake Superior froze completely for the first time really nailed it. However, since the 80's most of MI has seen warmer and less snow in winter, much the same as other places. I also recall back in the late 40's and early 50's the prediction was that by the year 2000 we'd need only sweaters during the winter months. Of course, at the time we were going through some very mild conditions with very little snow....


----------



## Woody Stover (Aug 9, 2013)

begreen said:


> Climate depot is funded by CFACT, largest donor Exxon Mobil and the uber conservative Carthage Foundation. Not that that would have any influence here.


 
Hard to believe they have still got us driving around in 100-year-old, oil-burning technology....wait, no, not that hard to believe.


----------



## jharkin (Aug 10, 2013)

Climate depot is about as fact driven as conservopedia and the weekly world news.   Zzzzzzzzz....  Zzzzzzzz.....


----------



## NortheastAl (Aug 10, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Hard to believe they have still got us driving around in 100-year-old, oil-burning technology....wait, no, not that hard to believe.


And, we're still burnin' wood. Sheesh! What'll be next...coal? LOL.


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 10, 2013)

jharkin said:


> Climate depot is about as fact driven as conservopedia and the weekly world news. Zzzzzzzzz.... Zzzzzzzz.....


 
agreed, I sleep better when it's cold


----------



## Woody Stover (Aug 10, 2013)

NortheastAl said:


> And, we're still burnin' wood. Sheesh! What'll be next...coal? LOL.


Bah. We should have free energy by now.


----------



## NortheastAl (Aug 10, 2013)

Woody Stover said:


> Bah. We should have free energy by now.


We do, for the most part...wood! 

We are getting closer. Innovation and collaboration will bring lower cost energy. Nothing is free, anyway. Look how much solar panels and wind turbines cost. But, yes, they are getting cheaper all the time. The good thing is that those products allow some of us to drop off the grid, while allowing others that wish to, keep jobs. Seems like a win-win, for now.


----------



## Lake Girl (Aug 15, 2013)

My sister's place is off the grid - near Naples, NY.  Neighbor wouldn't allow them to cross their property with transmission lines.  Although expensive, they are happy with the results.  Two solar arrays now and propane generator gets fired up just for maintenance.  Wood heat from their own stands of trees too


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 15, 2013)

begreen said:


> Tried hard, but I couldn't find the source article on the referred newspaper's website (http://jyllands-posten.dk/). A google search for "lille istid" did not turn it up either. Couldn't find the author on the company website either. Considering it is translated from Danish, hard to say much about it. It may be wrong or it may be right. There are lots of predictions for this. Ask me in 20 years if they are true.
> 
> Climate depot is funded by CFACT, largest donor Exxon Mobil and the uber conservative Carthage Foundation. Not that that would have any influence here.


 there can be no doubt this was caused by manmade agw


----------



## NortheastAl (Aug 15, 2013)

Lake Girl said:


> My sister's place is off the grid - near Naples, NY.  Neighbor wouldn't allow them to cross their property with transmission lines.  Although expensive, they are happy with the results.  Two solar arrays now and propane generator gets fired up just for maintenance.  Wood heat from their own stands of trees too


Looks like the neighbor did them a favor for the longer term. In spite of the expense, it is good to be independent of the grid.


----------



## begreen (Aug 15, 2013)

Doug MacIVER said:


> there can be no doubt this was caused by manmade agw
> 
> View attachment 108621


 
So it was a very hot summer and some strong storms occurred. What does local weather have to do with global climate change?


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 15, 2013)

begreen said:


> So it was a very hot summer and some strong storms occurred. What does local weather have to do with global climate change?


the agw powers  have mentioned many times lately that  weather extremes  are associated with climate change, even at the local level. that outbreak is extreme  for New England no matter when it took place.http://phys.org/news/2013-02-links-extreme-weather-climate.html


----------



## begreen (Aug 15, 2013)

Every year we get lots of folks here saying it's too warm/cold this winter and blame or dispute climate change. So what? People say all sorts of things and the internet has given anyone with a connection a voice. Doesn't make it science or fact. Local and regional extremes have been happening since the planet formed. It's the averages and trends that are more important.


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 17, 2013)

found this interesting from the cs monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/20...orth-America-is-key-to-their-coming-and-going


----------



## woodgeek (Aug 17, 2013)

I'm all for the cold.....just had the house upinsulated....bring it on.

solar polar flip, yawn.


----------



## begreen (Aug 17, 2013)

I think you are confusing the CSM with the Southern Baptist Journal. The majority of Christians have a much firmer grip on reality and science.


----------



## Frozen Canuck (Aug 17, 2013)

begreen said:


> I think you are confusing the CSM with the Southern Baptist Journal. The majority of Christians have a much firmer grip on reality and science.


 
Agreed - deleted.


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 17, 2013)

Frozen Canuck said:


> Christian Science Monitor!  You are joking right?
> 
> Folks who will try to tell me that Jesus rode a dinosaur & the earth is about 6000 years old are hardly what a sane person would call a reliable source of scientific info.
> 
> ...


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 17, 2013)

csw monitor was always a respected print in boston, their religion I have no clue. I guess the folks that conducted this study would know enough to teach grade I-6 as the institutions listed are pretty liberal.


----------



## StihlHead (Aug 17, 2013)

The sun flips poles every 11 years. It correlates to the 11 year sun spot and solar cycles. Though this is supposed to be the weakest the Sun has been in about 100 years. Here is the scientific explanation:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/The-Weakest-Solar-Cycle-in-100-Years-216752671.html

While solar activity does fluctuate over time, it is not believed to be the main cause of the geological ice ages that we are living in now. The current ice age started 2.6 million years ago and has seen a series of glacier cycles of between 40k and 100k years long. The current inter-glacial warming period started about 10k years go. The more recent mini ice age was between 1350 and 1850 when things were cooling off again. The worst years were around 1700 when beer casks froze solid, the rivers in Europe froze solid, and the oceans and seas around Europe froze for many miles out from the coastlines. Many of my ancestors left Europe for the New England colonies around then. The coldest periods of that era coincided with the onset of the industrial revolution (which also started about 1700) from which time things have warmed up. The fairly well accepted scientific theory is that we were heading into another glacial/ice era if it were not for the industrial revolution and the release of large amounts of CO2.

There are contradictory forces happening having effects on global climate in this inter-glacial/ice era. Around 13k years ago something happened that caused the warming of the atmosphere and the glaciers to recede from the last ice era that had lasted for about 100k years. There is scientific evidence that there was a large release of CO2 from the deep north Pacific ocean that likely caused this to happen. Around 1350 things were starting to cool down again from the effects of geological CO2 re-absorption. These effects include large peat bog activity, ocean action, and Himalayan mountain erosion which all sequester CO2 from the atmosphere in large amounts. These are rather gradual and slow processes though, but processes that are believed to be the cause of the great ice ages of the last several million years. On top of these background geological ice-age CO2 absorption and release process there has been the rapid increase in atmospheric CO2 from humans burning fossil fuels from the onset of the industrial revolution (since about 1700). It is believed that the CO2 release by humans, and resulting 'global warming' is counteracting what would otherwise be the onset of the next ice era. While some CO2 warming has likely been a good thing to put off the next glacial/ice era, we have released way too much of the stuff in too short a time for our own good. We have created a new era of atmospheric CO2 levels that has not been seen in 2 million years.

The science behind deep ocean CO2 ending the last ice era from 110,000 to about 10,000 years ago, and evidence that the CO2 in the atmosphere today is mainly from fossil fuel:

http://scienceblog.com/37898/large-co2-release-speeds-up-ice-age-melting/


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 18, 2013)

last winter's  Siberian meteor graphic from nasa, . good thing it was only 10k tonnes. link came from climate progress


----------



## rideau (Aug 18, 2013)

Sounds like the govt should give a tax benefit to folks who plant trees instead of grass in their suburban yards.  Also encourage dense tree plantings along all interstates....and stop the clear cutting of rural properties.....Then we should get some of our bright minds that are designing ever more sophisticated computer games to figure out how to return massive amounts of CO2 to the deep earth....


----------



## Lake Girl (Aug 21, 2013)

rideau said:


> Sounds like the govt should give a tax benefit to folks who plant trees instead of grass in their suburban yards. Also encourage dense tree plantings along all interstates....and stop the clear cutting of rural properties.....Then we should get some of our bright minds that are designing ever more sophisticated computer games to figure out how to return massive amounts of CO2 to the deep earth....


 
Planting trees is a good plan - CO2 capture and future heating stocks  Poking around on the issue of CO2 - this article got my attention.  http://www.zeroco2.no/capture/industrial-capture-process
Concrete production is one of the highest producers of CO2 that has potential for recapture.  Surprised me because it's something that I never thought about

The only problem I have with this concept is that it doesn't slow increasing levels over time.  Storage just shifts how fast it re-enters the atmosphere and leaves a problem for future generations.


----------



## Adios Pantalones (Aug 21, 2013)

rideau said:


> Sounds like the govt should give a tax benefit to folks who plant trees instead of grass in their suburban yards. Also encourage dense tree plantings along all interstates....and stop the clear cutting of rural properties.....Then we should get some of our bright minds that are designing ever more sophisticated computer games to figure out how to return massive amounts of CO2 to the deep earth....


"Grow food, not lawns" and you will reap environmental benefits on many levels.


----------



## StihlHead (Aug 21, 2013)

Lake Girl said:


> Planting trees is a good plan - CO2 capture and future heating stocks Poking around on the issue of CO2 - this article got my attention. http://www.zeroco2.no/capture/industrial-capture-process
> Concrete production is one of the highest producers of CO2 that has potential for recapture. Surprised me because it's something that I never thought about
> 
> The only problem I have with this concept is that it doesn't slow increasing levels over time. Storage just shifts how fast it re-enters the atmosphere and leaves a problem for future generations.


 
Yah, concrete making is a huge CO2 producer, and requires a huge amount of energy. The oceans.store and release huge amounts of CO2, which is the 'natural' engine that has driven the glacial growth and shrinkage of the ice ages over the past few million years. Seems that the formation of the Himalayan mountains is what tipped the scales for the earth to re-enter these ice ages.

Sequestering CO2 takes a lot of energy, and hence will be difficult to manage. They are building massive export terminals for coal, oil and NG here in the PNW like there is no tomorrow. As we reduce domestic energy FF consumption we are increasing exports to Asia. We are sitting on a mountain of coal, NG and new oil in the US. Money money money... and debt debt debt...


----------



## begreen (Aug 24, 2013)

Apparently the arctic ice is still shrinking this year, just less than last year's record setter.

http://www.livescience.com/39147-arctic-sea-ice-melting.html


----------



## BrianK (Aug 24, 2013)




----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 25, 2013)

not in a very good place for the northeast! sept.10 forecast map.


----------



## Doug MacIVER (Aug 25, 2013)

here is the gfs this am http://www.wunderground.com/wunderm...&dir=0&ads=0&tfk=0&fodors=0&ski=0&ls=0&rad2=0 scroll down on menu to model data  and click tool. scroll down to forecast


----------



## woodgeek (Aug 25, 2013)

The long term climate predictions and the temp data, that agree remarkably well for >100,000 years, seem to diverge since the rise of civilization. StihlHead did a great review. 

I would add that there is emerging science that humans have been changing the climate (on a smaller scale) for thousands of years. Clear cutting forests for fuel, shipbuilding or agriculture has a measurable impact on the balance of gasses in the atmosphere....scientists can 'see' a rise in methane when the Chinese started the mass cultivation of rice, and spikes of CO2 when Europeans clearcut their continent, and drawdawns of CO2 when the great plagues led to a large scale regrowth of forest cover there. All fascinating stuff IMO.


----------

