# Installing 24 volt WiFi Thermostat on millivolt stoves



## smwilliamson

Many stoves use millivolt jacks on their stoves. This poses a problem when you want  to use a thermostat that had functions etc...especially things like Wifi.

Basic heat only thermostats, such as mercury filled or the ye old slider style basically just complete a circuit when the temp falls below a specific set point. They don't need to be powered. As soon as you start using thermostats that have digital readouts, have clock, are programmable or connects to WiFi portals, one must power the thermostat. Most thermostats run on 24 volts. Your doorbell on your house may run on 24 volts too. Most central heating equipment will have some kind of transformer that powers the thermostat via the Rh and W wire connections. However,these connections will only power the thermostat when the unit is calling for heat, and that's what the C wire on the thermostat is for...to provide a common neutral wire for when the tstat is NOT calling for heat.

Many pellet and has stoves utilize milli-volt powered tstat jacks. The reasoning is that room heaters such as these should not be used as primary heating systems and as such and controls for them such as tstats should NOT be located too far away from the unit. Milli-volt current will not travel to far away so that is why they are used. What we don't want to happen is to have the stov calling for heat too soon after the unit has gone in to shut down mode. We call it short cycling and it can mess up the logic in the control board of the stove. Not permentaly, but perhaps enough to force the owner to unplug the unit and restart the system.

It the pictures below I have made a powered relay with a 24v transformer to allow a pellet stove with a milli-volt tstat jack to be used with a 24v C wire powered tstat. The one I am using is also WiFi enabled.

I chose the Cheaper one from lowes
*Honeywell 7-Day Programmable Thermostat*
Item #: 171234 |  Model #: RTH6580WF1001

The relay is a RIB UC12 and the transformer I got from Radio Shack.

The wires coming out of the j box to the left are not being used. The orange and the yellow coming out of the bottom go to the stove, the red wire goes to the Rh on the tstat and there is one white wire for the C connection and one for the W connection.

It works like a champ. Here are some benefits...

You can turn the stove on and off from work for your kids, start the stove on the drive home from work and have the house warm when you get home. Monitor the stove in a rental unit or a time share vacation home.

Good stuff!


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## smwilliamson

This system can control up to two stoves with one thermostat.


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## Bioburner

And how many founding Fathers does the system go for?


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## smwilliamson

Tstat is $109 the relay, box and transformer about $27


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## smwilliamson

All in maybe $159


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## Bioburner

Not bad at all. Under two Franklins. Medium skill level to accomplish?


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## Don2222

Good WiFi T-Stat for average guy who has the skill and time to wire up the relay.

What is the Max swing setting? Is there any monthly fee for the Internet use of the WiFi?
Also
Is a box needed to connect up to the internet?
Do you need that red link stuff? It is a little confusing.
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-THM...Gateway/dp/B006BD1K4A/ref=pd_sim_sbs_indust_2
Also you need a computer to run the setup software. Might be a little PITA.

In my opinion for someone who wants the best like their Harman Stoves and the easiest to use and wire up, the Ecobee EB-Stat-02 is the Top of the Line by far. See pics below.
There is NO monthly fee for WiFi use and the Anto-Short Cycling delay has a max of 20 min for minimum on time. So if your stove takes 15 or 20 mins to shut down, you just set it for 15 or 20 min. Simple

Now here is the good news.
It can be connected to a furnace and powered from the pony relay that puts out 24 vac which drives your Taco zone pumps. ( I installed couple oil boilers in my days. LOL)

For pellet stoves
Just buy the 12 vdc adapter and plug it into the AC outlet. The AC adapter plugs into the Interface Board that you can mount near to the pellet stove.
Then run 2 wires from the pellet stove connection to the R/H and W O/B terminals on the Interface Board.
Run a 4 conductor 18 guage wire from D- , D+ , GND and +12vdc from the Interface board to the same terminals on the T-Stat display and mount the display away from the stove.

The setup wizard will find your WiFi router and connect to it with the built-in wireless card!

Now the real fun begins!
This is the most sophisticated WiFi T-Stat on the market, the reports it can generate are second to none! Even has a 3 year warrenty!
Sure the cost is 3 Bennies but you have the very best!

_List of Alerts_

Below is a list of alerts. Depending on your configuration, some of these may not apply.
*There are also other alerts like low battery and communications alert between the t-stat and interface module plus configurable alerts for Input1 and input2. One of these alerts can be used for a flood sensor which is great if you ever get water in the basement. This feature will pay for the extra cost in the T-Stat alone!*

Furnace - Air Furnace Filter - filter needs to be cleaned or changed.
UV Lamp - UV lamp needs to be changed.
Low Temp Alert - Temperature in the home is too low.
High Temp Alert - Temperature in the home is too high.
Heat Not Responding - The system has failed to heat the home.
Cool Not Responding - The system has failed to cool the home.
Maintenance Reminder - HVAC system due for regular maintenance.
Auxiliary Heat Run Time - Auxiliary heat source is running too often.
Auxiliary Outdoor Temperature - Your Smart Si thermostat auxiliary heat has been called to run when the outdoor temperature exceeds the programmed set point.

_Recovery Options_
Recovery options allow the Smart Thermostat to learn
how your heating and cooling system works, taking into
account infrastructure, weather and historical operating
performance so that your home is a comfortable
temperature as soon as you walk in the door.

Smart Recovery Heat
The thermostat will start recovery at the optimum time to
ensure the set point is reached at the programmed time.

Smart Recovery Cool
The thermostat will start recovery at the optimum time to
ensure the set point is reached at the programmed time.

Random Start Heat
Programming a time in this section will produce a random
delay when there is call for heat. In applications with
multiple heating systems, this prevents all systems from
activating at the same time, creating a peak power demand.

Random Start Cool
Programming a time in this section will produce a random
delay when there is call for cooling. In applications with
multiple cooling systems, this prevents all systems from
activating at the same time, creating a peak power demand.

_Thermostat Name_
You can customize the name of your thermostat to suit
your needs (i.e. Main Floor). This is useful if you have
multiple systems or zones. You can view and edit your
thermostat name in the About menu on your thermostat
and also in your online Web Portal.

_Utility CPP Setting_

This section is only applicable if your utility company is
running a Critical Peak Pricing program that you have
agreed to be a part of. Contact your local electrical utility
company for information about programs in your area.

CPP Response
Your utility may send voluntary events to your thermostat.
You can choose to always accept these events. In which
case, you would just be notified that an event is in
progress. Or if you choose Ask Me, when the Utility issues
an event, you will be asked if you want to participate.
If you do not acknowledge the event prior to the start, the
system will default to yes.

During a Critical Peak Pricing event the Utility may select
an energy saving strategy, or allow you to use your
preferred strategy. Select from one of the options as
your preferred energy saving strategy to be used during
Critical Peal Pricing events.

Absolute Temperature
Set a specific heat and cool set point to be used when
an event is initiated by the Utility company. If the set
point at the time of the event is more favorable (lower
in heat mode or higher is cool mode) than what you
have programmed, the thermostat will use the more
favorable set point for the duration of the event.

Relative Temperature
Program a temperature set back (heat) or set forward
(cool) from your existing set point. For example, if you
program a 4oF set forward, and your current cool set
point is 76oF, During an event your thermostat set point
will change to 80oF until the event has expired.

System Off
If this option is selected, the thermostat will turn off for
the duration of this event.

Duty Cycle
This option allows you to program the maximum amount
of time the system will run during a 1 hour period. For
example if you select 30%, the air conditioner will run for
a maximum of 18 (0.3 x 60) minutes regardless of whether
the set point has been met. 0% essentially turns the
system off, whereas 100% runs the system at full capacity

Click pics to enlarge:


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## smwilliamson

The Honeywell Tstat is pretty simple and best of all, cheap for wifi. No monthly fee to access wifi other than your ISP...which you will need access to with any wifi thermostat. It has lots of features. I haven't got in to them all bt since the tstat is going to be mounts in the same room as the stove...short cycling is not an issue.

The skill level for this is pretty easy. Perhaps harder to network it than build the box and wire it. 

The post isn't so much a discussion of what wifi tstat is best but rather some info on how to adapt a millivolt controlled system to a 24v powered system.


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## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> The Honeywell Tstat is pretty simple and best of all, cheap for wifi. No monthly fee to access wifi other than your ISP...which you will need access to with any wifi thermostat. It has lots of features. I haven't got in to them all bt since the tstat is going to be mounts in the same room as the stove...short cycling is not an issue.
> 
> The skill level for this is pretty easy. Perhaps harder to network it than build the box and wire it.
> 
> The post isn't so much a discussion of what wifi tstat is best but rather some info on how to adapt a millivolt controlled system to a 24v powered system.



Sounds good and the price is great!


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## WoodPorn

Scott, This sounds like a great option. Me thinks you maybe should have entered into the engineering arena.

Don, we need to put a character counter on your acct and set a maximum of like 100.


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## smoke show

part numbers of said components?


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## smwilliamson

smoke show said:


> part numbers of said components?


basic electrical J Box - $5.97
Electrical cord with plug - $3.99
RIB Relay #RIBU2C - $21.97
Radio Shack 12v-25.2v Transformer #03A12 - $7.99
Honeywell Model #: RTH6580WF1001 TSTAT - $109.00
some wire and nuts - $5.00 or so

$153.92 + tax

Takes about 30 minutes to wire it up, see my diagram attachment on OP


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## jtakeman

Interesting for those that want them. 

Scott 1 

Don 0

Scott scored a right cross. Donny boy rocked but didn't fall. Instead of arguing we may see the battle of the brains?


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## Don2222

Hello

I do like the 24 volt relay with the Honeywell T-Tstat, it may be good for the one room shed. *However, who is going to fix it or warranty it when it breaks? *

I just got the remote sensor module for the Ecobee. Their call in tech suppoort is one of the best!
http://www.hvacpw.com/Ecobee-RSM-01-Remote-Sensor-Module-p/eco-rsm-01.htm

* With this module, I can not only check the outdoor temperature and the humidity in the same room as the pellet stove with the smartphone, but also the temperature in the other rooms so I can boost up the stove temp to make the whole house more comfy!
If there is any water in the basement, I can get a nice alert when working!
*
Features
Control Sensors
With the help of the ecobee Remote Senosr Module you can take control of your comfort with the ability to:




Use a sensor to control your comfort instead of the thermostat.

Average temperature and humidty sensors in your home to get optimal comfort throughout your home.

Use your already programmed high and low temperature alerts with a control sensor to let you know if there are problems with your system.

Monitoring
Monitor temperatures and humidity of various locations with the ecobee RSM. Set thresholds to alert you if something isn’t right.

Outdoor Sensor
Get accurate weather data for your home with an outdoor sensor. The information gathered will be used to configure HVAC algorithms to help your system maintain the most comfortable conditions for the most amount of savings. 

Sensor compatability
HoneywellC7189U indoor sensor
C7089U outdoor sensor
TekmarD076 indoor sensor
D079 slab sensor
D084 flush mount sensor
Johnson Controls
HT-6703 humidity sensor
CD-W00 CO2 sensor
Other temperature sensors can be supported by just entering the B value or the resistance
reported by the sensor at 70°F (21°C) during the configuration process.


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## smwilliamson

I'm sure that ecobee has you all smitten but from what I can tell you haven't wired it up yet. I wish you would stop hacking up my posts to push your own agenda. We get it. I say this you say that....I made mine and it works. If I put this system together for someone I suppose they could just call me if it isn't working.


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## WoodPorn

Scott 2....

Don 0....

Who took my action?  J?


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## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> I'm sure that ecobee has you all smitten but from what I can tell you haven't wired it up yet. I wish you would stop hacking up my posts to push your own agenda. We get it. I say this you say that....I made mine and it works. If I put this system together for someone I suppose they could just call me if it isn't working.



That is a good job wiring up that T-Stat, may I remind you that the title of this post is:
*"Installing 24 volt WiFi Thermostat on millivolt stoves"*

Therefore my input is exactly inline with this topic! ! ! I am also showing how to wire up a 24 volt WiFi T-Stat. In this case it is much easier with the Ecobee because all you have to do is get the optional AC adapter and plug it in, instead of spending alot of time at Radio Shack.


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## smwilliamson

To what benefit it is going to be to know what temp the other rooms are or even the outside temp if the stove can only react to conditions in the room it's installed in? You may be smart and all but more isnt always better.

Damn it, I just made something kinda cool for the people...I shared it with ya all. Blue print, part numbers and everything...I even ran it for close to week before I posted. Go head there master...show me what you got. Wire it up buddy. Report back to us.


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## smwilliamson

Don2222 said:


> That is a good job wiring up that T-Stat, may I remind you that the title of this post is:
> *"Installing 24 volt WiFi Thermostat on millivolt stoves"*
> 
> Therefore my input is exactly inline with this topic! ! ! I am also showing how to wire up a 24 volt WiFi T-Stat. In this case it is much easier with the Ecobee because all you have to do is get the optional AC adapter and plug it in, instead of spending alot of time at Radio Shack. Then the 24 volt AC connection is not used!


Your costs $300 and has an ugly cord running up the wall from an outlet.


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## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> Your costs $300 and has an ugly cord running up the wall from an outlet.



You can mount it down near the outlet or lay it on the floor. Yes, it is more money but you get many more features and a 3 year warranty.
Some people will like yours and others will like this, just nice to have a choice.


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## smwilliamson

Your pushing a tstat.... I'm showing people a way to power the tstat using millivolt output jacks. You jump in and hijack my posts I do t really care what tstat people use, but if it needs 24v to power it, here is a solution. Thanks for being objective and generally excited towards my ideas. Secretly we all know you want to be me...wait till you see the next skunkworks project. Gonna be hard for you to contain yourself, just sayin.


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## smwilliamson

Don2222 said:


> You can mount it down near the outlet or lay it on the floor. Yes, it is more money but you get many more features and a 3 year warranty.
> Some people will like yours and others will like this, just nice to have a choice.


So your gonna monitor the cold air in at the floor with yer tstat? Let me know how that works.


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## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> To what benefit it is going to be to know what temp the other rooms are or even the outside temp if the stove can only react to conditions in the room it's installed in? You may be smart and all but more isnt always better.
> 
> Damn it, I just made something kinda cool for the people...I shared it with ya all. Blue print, part numbers and everything...I even ran it for close to week before I posted. Go head there master...show me what you got. Wire it up buddy. Report back to us.



If the pipes are freezing in the other room, it might be nice to know! Some people have large homes and may really want to know that so they can remotely fire up a second stove.
I do intend to connect it in, it has been so very busy! I am surprised you had time for all that?


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## BrotherBart

Get a room.


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## smwilliamson

Wire it up man, no excuses. You haven't even got it out of the wrapper!


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## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> So your gonna monitor the cold air in at the floor with yer tstat? Let me know how that works.



HaHa
The AC adapter plugs into the interface module not the T-Stat. You may want to see the instructions.


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## smwilliamson

Don2222 said:


> If the pipes are freezing in the other room, it might be nice to know! Some people have large homes and may really want to know that so they can remotely fire up a second stove.
> I do intend to connect it in, it has been so very busy! I am surprised you had time for all that?


If you need a tstat to tell you the pipes are freezing In the other room you need a lot more than a glitzy tstat.

Hat Honeywell has a lot of features too you know.


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## smwilliamson

Don2222 said:


> HaHa
> The AC adapter plugs into the interface module not the T-Stat. You may want to see the instructions.


I'm sure it's everything we all want and more. The thing I made can power two of you things fYI


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## hyfire

I don;t understand why we need the relay, I have a wifi T stat and it works with out the relay.  C goes to the transfomer, other side of transformer goes to RH and  jumpers to the stove and W goes to the other side of the stove.  I tested it an it works, as this is how my t stat instructions said to hook it up for a millivolt device.


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## jtakeman

hyfire said:


> I don;t understand why we need the relay, I have a wifi T stat and it works with out the relay.  C goes to the transfomer, other side of transformer goes to RH and  jumpers to the stove and W goes to the other side of the stove.  I tested it an it works, as this is how my t stat instructions said to hook it up for a millivolt device.


Which stat are you using?

@Don2222  and @smwilliamson 

These 2 knuckle heads will bicker over whether rice crispies pop crackle snap or snap crackle pop! Me thinx they need a time out!


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## smwilliamson

hyfire said:


> I don;t understand why we need the relay, I have a wifi T stat and it works with out the relay.  C goes to the transfomer, other side of transformer goes to RH and  jumpers to the stove and W goes to the other side of the stove.  I tested it an it works, as this is how my t stat instructions said to hook it up for a millivolt device.


Your tstat must be battery powered and millivolt compatible, most are not


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## hyfire

current innovations CI800, which is the same as the 3M50 stlye unit.


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## smwilliamson

Show us your wiring schematic. What's your stove?


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## smwilliamson

Do you have a jumper on the tstat from wh to c?


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## jtakeman

Nice looking stat!

http://www.currentinnovationsinc.com/#!__master-page-1


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## Don2222

jtakeman said:


> Nice looking stat!
> 
> http://www.currentinnovationsinc.com/#!__master-page-1



That's great, as I said before, there is no need to argue just present the facts so people can decide what is best for them!

Nice for just under 3 bennies. The prices for DC WiFi T-Stats may go down too.
http://shop.neobits.com/current_innovations_inc_ci800_commnctng_thermst_model_800_1035089829.php


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## TheMightyMoe

Wish there was a decent thermostat setup that let the Harman keep modulating its intended way and not just go into 4 blink.

Maybe you just need a disclaimer in your signature about someone posting in your threads, the thread would be quite clean then...


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## hyfire

The stove is a eco-65 I'm on the laptop, I cant draw a pic right now


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## jtakeman

TheMightyMoe said:


> Maybe you just need a disclaimer in your signature about someone posting in your threads, the thread would be quite clean then...



Nah, We'd side track it just to send ya into a tizzy. It is rather fun ya know! 

We are a bit of a crazy bunch. Woo hoo la la la hehe! carry on!


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## Woody1911a1

ok question  for both Scott and Don and whoever else that may be able to answer . 

i just really started to get interested in one .   will either of these be able to run both my oil burner and my pellet stove ?


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## jtakeman

Woody1911a1 said:


> ok question  for both Scott and Don and whoever else that may be able to answer .
> 
> i just really started to get interested in one .   will either of these be able to run both my oil burner and my pellet stove ?



I'd say prolly not as the stat only has one set of contacts. But I could be wrong?


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## hyfire

THe CI-800 does not have good data logging like the other wifi T stats that is the only problem with it, and you can;t stop the schedule, you have to put it on hold mode, but each time you turn the stat off you have to put it back on hold mode, sucks. I;m testing it a few days now it works fine, but I;m not sure if its a good idea to inject 24v into the millivolt contacts?


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## hyfire

smwilliamson said:


> Do you have a jumper on the tstat from wh to c?



No, I don;t C goes directly to the transformer, the other side of the transformer goes to Rh and Rh is connected to the stove, so that is under the same terminal at the stat.  The other return wire from the stove goes directly to W.


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## smwilliamson

Then what do you have for a stove?


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## hyfire

smwilliamson said:


> Then what do you have for a stove?



Drolet ECO-65 see avatar!


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## smwilliamson

Woody1911a1 said:


> ok question  for both Scott and Don and whoever else that may be able to answer .
> 
> i just really started to get interested in one .   will either of these be able to run both my oil burner and my pellet stove ?


Sure. But you would need some priority controls set in place or a thermostat that has the option for auxiliary heat, whereby one is primary and under load the additional system kicks in. Understand that controls for heating equipment were designed without input from the stove makers.


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## Don2222

Woody1911a1 said:


> ok question  for both Scott and Don and whoever else that may be able to answer .
> 
> i just really started to get interested in one .   will either of these be able to run both my oil burner and my pellet stove ?



Hello Woody

The Ecobee does have the option for auxiliary heat.

In my experience with boiler and furnace installations where two of the same heating appliances are utilized is called 2 stage heating. This uses one T-stat in a central location and when the 1st stage cannot bring the area up to temperature, then stage 2 would be initialized to satisfy the T-stat.This is used more in commercial properties with large spaces that require more BTUs to do the same job. In your case where you have an oil baseboard system and a zone heater such as a pellet stove because they heat differently, 2 stage heating with one T-Stat may not be the best solution. Perimeter baseboard with an interior T-Stat assures the space is evenly heated when the T-Stat is satisfied. A T-Stat in the vicinity of the pellet stove does not assure the perimeter areas are properly heated and up  to temperature.

Therefore using the same T-Stat for a pellet stove and oil boiler would not yield the same results as 2 stage heating that these T-Stats were designed to work with.

The case of the oil boiler and pellet stove may be a little more complicated. First we have to analyze how we want this system to work.
Maybe we can surmise that we want to not only have the oil boiler kick on when the pellet stove fails or runs out of pellets, but maybe it should kick on when their are large temperature drops outside to keep any peripheral areas that may contain water pipes from freezing and breaking.

Therefore we may ascertain that a minimum of 2 independent T-Stats maybe ideal for this custom application and we can plan on that.

In my own situation, I have rezoned my house from one central T-Stat into 2 separate baseboard zones and 2 T-Stats just for the oil heat. One T-Stat in the split is located in the livingroom and the other down the hall in the master bedroom. The later controls the heat to the bedrooms. The other T-Stat controls the heat for the living room and kitchen. Now, for this case, the new T-Stat for the pellet stove will be located in the middle of the hallway or the center of the house. The pellet stove in the basement pipes the heat up at this point. Therefore if the pellet stove fails or the perimeter gets too cold, one or both of the oil heating zones will kick in when needed.

Here again the Ecobee with additional sensors can monitor peripheral areas and send alerts if the oil boiler zone or boiler fails. A great cross checking!

Now if the layout of your home is different, then a custom design may be needed there. If you would like some suggestions, then tell us your layout.

Hope this helps.


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## 343amc

Both sound like too much work for me. Although a cool concept, my $20 thermostat, minus wi-fi or other fancy stuff suits me perfectly well. For me, low tech is better most times. 

Off to fire up my high tech microwave for another batch of popcorn.


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## jtakeman

343amc said:


> Both sound like too much work for me. Although a cool concept, my $20 thermostat, minus wi-fi or other fancy stuff suits me perfectly well. For me, low tech is better most times.
> 
> Off to fire up my high tech microwave for another batch of popcorn.


 I'll keep my $30 programmable. I barely can figure that out!


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## newtonfb

I have a 2005 enviro EF 5 evolution pellet stove. I made and hooked up everything according to the OP. 

Everything works up until the stove is supposed to click on and it doesnt. I make the thermostat call for heat, the relay clicks and lights up but nothing happens. 
I then just tied the thermostat into the two wires that are connected to the push to start button. When I made the thermostat call for heat it started the stove right up. 
The problem with that is my stove has a 15min start up timer, meaning if the stove doesnt get hot enough it will shut down and you have to press the button again. So usually you have to leave the blower off for hte first 15min and click it on when it gets hot enough or else the blower will cool the stove down before it gets up to temperature to bypass the shutdown.So with the wires hooked up to just the start switch I have no control over the blower or the auger feed rate. 
I thought that if I hooked this up to the thermostat section of the stove that it would do everything automatically, but im beginning to wonder what the thermostat interface does, or has the ability to do what i want it to do.
How can i figure out if my stove can even start up via a thermostat?
Im not too knowledgeable about this subject as you can see. Any help anyone can provide would be appreciated.

I attached 3 pictures. 
One showing my controls
Second a picture of the thermostat interface. In the top right of the picture you can see the white wire, thats where the thermostat is supposed to connect.
Third is a picture of the manual where it talks about the thermostat hookup


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## WoodPorn

What type/kind of tsat are you using?


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## newtonfb

WoodPorn said:


> What type/kind of tsat are you using?



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywel...tat-Free-App-RTH6580WF/203556922#.UmcAbvmsim4 

pretty much the same one as the OP


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## mchasal

As a test can you try just disconnecting that jumper on the thermostat terminals. That will essentially simulate a thermostat satisfied condition. Then if you connect the jumper, you should be simulating a call for heat. If it doesn't work in that test, either some mode is set wrong, or there's something out of wack on a controller.

Does that sound like a reasonable test?

Also, the manual I found for your stove doesn't make any mention of needing a millivolt tstat. I think all you need to do is hook your tstat directly to those terminals (once you verify everything is functional with the above test).

One other thing. Reading the manual page you posted it says:

"This control module is responsible for switching between a factory setting (for auger timing and exhaust voltage) and the control panel settings when the wall thermostat calls for heat."

My interpretation of that is that the thermostat setting on your stove cannot start the stove. It can just switch between "a factory setting", which I'm guessing is a low idle, and the set heat output. This is what is usually called a "hi-low mode".
So tstat is satisfied, the auger and blower will drop down to a low setting, reducing the fire, tstat calls for heat and the stove ramps up to the burn rate set by the controls. 

Can you try starting the stove manually, then working the tstat (or simulating it) to see if that's how it behaves?


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## newtonfb

mchasal said:


> As a test can you try just disconnecting that jumper on the thermostat terminals. That will essentially simulate a thermostat satisfied condition. Then if you connect the jumper, you should be simulating a call for heat. If it doesn't work in that test, either some mode is set wrong, or there's something out of wack on a controller.
> 
> Does that sound like a reasonable test?
> 
> Also, the manual I found for your stove doesn't make any mention of needing a millivolt tstat. I think all you need to do is hook your tstat directly to those terminals (once you verify everything is function with the above test).




Thanks for the reply. Im not sure what you mean by disconnecting the cable and connecting it back on? sorry
When I take out that white wire and connect the two wires coming from the tstat nothing happens. I can hear a small click sound coming from the stove when the relay calls for heat but it wont do anything else. If i disconnect one of the wires from the stove and touch it back to the metal terminal i can hear it click again so i know its trying to do something.
Regarding the millivolt, i just assumed because thats what everyone says most pellet stoves are. Im not sure how i would connect the tstat straight to the stove.


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> Thanks for the reply. Im not sure what you mean by disconnecting the cable and connecting it back on? sorry
> When I take out that white wire and connect the two wires coming from the tstat nothing happens. I can hear a small click sound coming from the stove when the relay calls for heat but it wont do anything else. If i disconnect one of the wires from the stove and touch it back to the metal terminal i can hear it click again so i know its trying to do something.
> Regarding the millivolt, i just assumed because thats what everyone says most pellet stoves are. Im not sure how i would connect the tstat straight to the stove.



I made an edit for something else, not sure if you saw it, probably should have done a new reply, so here it is again:


> One other thing. Reading the manual page you posted it says:
> 
> "This control module is responsible for switching between a factory setting (for auger timing and exhaust voltage) and the control panel settings when the wall thermostat calls for heat."
> 
> My interpretation of that is that the thermostat setting on your stove cannot start the stove. It can just switch between "a factory setting", which I'm guessing is a low idle, and the set heat output. This is what is usually called a "hi-low mode".
> So tstat is satisfied, the auger and blower will drop down to a low setting, reducing the fire, tstat calls for heat and the stove ramps up to the burn rate set by the controls.
> 
> Can you try starting the stove manually, then working the tstat (or simulating it) to see if that's how it behaves?


----------



## newtonfb

mchasal said:


> I made an edit for something else, not sure if you saw it, probably should have done a new reply, so here it is again:



Ya Ill try that. Il start the stove and then make the tstat call for heat and see what it does and then lower the tstat and see what happens also


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> Regarding the millivolt, i just assumed because thats what everyone says most pellet stoves are. Im not sure how i would connect the tstat straight to the stove.



The manual says specifically to connect a "12 or 24 volt thermostat". That indicates that it does not need a millivolt thermostat. Millivolt stats are < 1 volt.


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> Ya Ill try that. Il start the stove and then make the tstat call for heat and see what it does and then lower the tstat and see what happens also



Just make sure you have the heat control set on High so you'll be able to tell when the stat kicks it up.


----------



## newtonfb

mchasal said:


> Just make sure you have the heat control set on High so you'll be able to tell when the stat kicks it up.




Ok, so after i started the stove with the thermostat hooked up it looks like the stove does react to the temp. I turned the tstat up  few deg and the auger went to a higher speed, when the desired temp was reached the auger rate went low. I didnt really notice the blower speed change but the auger speed def did.


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> Ok, so after i started the stove with the thermostat hooked up it looks like the stove does react to the temp. I turned the tstat up  few deg and the auger went to a higher speed, when the desired temp was reached the auger rate went low. I didnt really notice the blower speed change but the auger speed def did.



Yay!

I do have to recant a bit I think on something I said. Your thermostat does need power, and even though the stove provides 12-24 volts, that will only be available when it's calling for heat. So keep the setup you have.


----------



## newtonfb

mchasal said:


> Yay!
> 
> I do have to recant a bit I think on something I said. Your thermostat does need power, and even though the stove provides 12-24 volts, that will only be available when it's calling for heat. So keep the setup you have.



Thanks again. 
My only complaint is the whole point i bought the WiFi thermostat was to start the stove when I wasnt home and beable to monitor it. I guess I can just split the wires goign to the tstat and also connect them to the start switch. I dont see why that would be a problem


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> Thanks again.
> My only complaint is the whole point i bought the WiFi thermostat was to start the stove when I wasnt home and beable to monitor it. I guess I can just split the wires goign to the tstat and also connect them to the start switch. I dont see why that would be a problem




In the manual it says:


> DO NOT:
> -  Hold the start-up switch down, this is a momentary contact switch and can be damaged if held down too long.



While what you discuss doesn't involve literally holding that switch down and won't damage the switch itself, it's not the way your stove is designed to work. It would be like you were sitting there holding the start switch down all the time that the tstat is calling for heat. Not sure what adverse affect or what safety features that could be bypassing. I don't think it's a good idea unless you're intimately familiar with the inner workings of the stove and know what will happen.


----------



## newtonfb

mchasal said:


> In the manual it says:
> 
> 
> While what you discuss doesn't involve literally holding that switch down and won't damage the switch itself, it's not the way your stove is designed to work. It would be like you were sitting there holding the start switch down all the time that the tstat is calling for heat. Not sure what adverse affect or what safety features that could be bypassing. I don't think it's a good idea unless you're intimately familiar with the inner workings of the stove and know what will happen.




hmm.. ya i see what your saying


----------



## newtonfb

I'm thinking a timer relay would work. If I set that up to the start switch for only a couple seconds and then cut off power to it.
Anyone know exactly what kind of relay does that? I'm confused with delay on and delay off types.


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> I'm thinking a timer relay would work. If I set that up to the start switch for only a couple seconds and then cut off power to it.
> Anyone know exactly what kind of relay does that? I'm confused with delay on and delay off types.



Maybe this will help: http://www.grainger.com/tps/electrical_time_delay_relay_selection_guide.pdf

No experience with any of this, so can't really help. Not sure I'd feel comfortable with this level of modification personally, but good luck.


----------



## skibumm100

Thanks Scott. Can't we all just get along....;-)

In our town you can drop off mercury filled devices at the town garage for free and they'll dispose of them for you. When I dropped off my waste oil I pick through the pile and got a nice old Honeywell for my shop heater.

I have an old DC power supply from an ADT alarm panel that I could use to power your set up. Good write up.

To Don,

My buddy has a rental house in VT and he uses an EcoBee and he loves it. He can monitor the temp inside his place when nobody is there and get a heating guy to fix his furnace when it craps out. He can also raise the temp setpoint before his renters show up remotely so he doesn't have to have someone else do it.


----------



## saladdin

Mommy and Daddy are fighting again.


----------



## newtonfb

So just so I understand....my stove isn't capable of starting from tstat but most other stoves are?


----------



## mchasal

newtonfb said:


> So just so I understand....my stove isn't capable of starting from tstat but most other stoves are?


 
I don't know about "most", but many do. Many stoves have a selectable thermostat mode. They can run in "hi/lo" where the stat switches it between idle and the set temp, like your stove, or they can run in "on/off" where the stat turns the stove entirely on and off.  The former uses more pellets and can overheat the house on warmer days, the latter, arguably, causes more wear on the ignitor. Some stoves have some combination of the 2 where they'll run in hi/lo, but shut the stove down entirely if there isn't a call for heat for a certain time.

I suppose it makes sense to use on/off during the shoulder season, and hi/low when it's colder.


----------



## newtonfb

I got a new issue now that i have the thermostat. I set it to 70 and it heats the house up to 70 and stays there for couple hours. The problem is after that the stove cant stay in that desired temperature and goes out. When i look in the burn pot there is a heap of pellets in burn pot. So basically when i go to bed and set the tstat to 70, i wake up and its 55 in the house and there is a heap of unburned pellets in the burnpot because the stove couldnt stay hot enough after reaching the desired temp. 
Is there something wrong with the stove?


----------



## smwilliamson

newtonfb said:


> I got a new issue now that i have the thermostat. I set it to 70 and it heats the house up to 70 and stays there for couple hours. The problem is after that the stove cant stay in that desired temperature and goes out. When i look in the burn pot there is a heap of pellets in burn pot. So basically when i go to bed and set the tstat to 70, i wake up and its 55 in the house and there is a heap of unburned pellets in the burnpot because the stove couldnt stay hot enough after reaching the desired temp.
> Is there something wrong with the stove?


So when your stove crawls back to an idle, the 35/1 ratio is askew. You got too much air and the fire (or coals to sustain the fire) are going out but the stove continues to feed. Enviro like every other company had issues using analog tstat controls. Adjust your air damper in.


----------



## newtonfb

Ok Thanks, Ill adjust the damper and give you an update


----------



## kenstogie

Wow all this stuff is confusing.  My head hurts..... yet it would be very cool/efficient to turn my temp up and down remotely and timed.


----------



## briansol

all you really need is something like this to plug in and then run a pair of wires to the thermostat.
http://www.amazon.com/Class-II-Transformer-Approved-MGT-2440/dp/B004VMVDTA/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y


----------



## kenstogie

It certainly sounds easy enough.


----------



## mdhoward

Scott - i have the same wifi t-stat and a millivolt gas fireplace at our cabin. I'd love to set it up so that we can pump up the heat before we head out for the cabin (2 hours) so that it's toasty when we get there.

You call out a RIB UC12 relay and what looks like an Edwards 592 transformer. I'm a little confused as the picture looks like a RIB UC2 relay.

Amazon has the following two items I think would work...

Heath Zenith Door Bell Transformer:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQY88I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

RIB U1C Relay:
http://www.amazon.com/Functional-De...qid=1387679871&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=ribu1c

My questions are:

1. The transformer is 20A @ 24V...the relay is 10A. Is this a problem?
2. The relay only has one coil - the RIB U2C has two. Do I need more than one?

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

Mike




smwilliamson said:


> Many stoves use millivolt jacks on their stoves. This poses a problem when you want  to use a thermostat that had functions etc...especially things like Wifi.
> 
> Basic heat only thermostats, such as mercury filled or the ye old slider style basically just complete a circuit when the temp falls below a specific set point. They don't need to be powered. As soon as you start using thermostats that have digital readouts, have clock, are programmable or connects to WiFi portals, one must power the thermostat. Most thermostats run on 24 volts. Your doorbell on your house may run on 24 volts too. Most central heating equipment will have some kind of transformer that powers the thermostat via the Rh and W wire connections. However,these connections will only power the thermostat when the unit is calling for heat, and that's what the C wire on the thermostat is for...to provide a common neutral wire for when the tstat is NOT calling for heat.
> 
> Many pellet and has stoves utilize milli-volt powered tstat jacks. The reasoning is that room heaters such as these should not be used as primary heating systems and as such and controls for them such as tstats should NOT be located too far away from the unit. Milli-volt current will not travel to far away so that is why they are used. What we don't want to happen is to have the stov calling for heat too soon after the unit has gone in to shut down mode. We call it short cycling and it can mess up the logic in the control board of the stove. Not permentaly, but perhaps enough to force the owner to unplug the unit and restart the system.
> 
> It the pictures below I have made a powered relay with a 24v transformer to allow a pellet stove with a milli-volt tstat jack to be used with a 24v C wire powered tstat. The one I am using is also WiFi enabled.
> 
> I chose the Cheaper one from lowes
> *Honeywell 7-Day Programmable Thermostat*
> Item #: 171234 |  Model #: RTH6580WF1001
> 
> The relay is a RIB UC12 and the transformer I got from Radio Shack.
> 
> The wires coming out of the j box to the left are not being used. The orange and the yellow coming out of the bottom go to the stove, the red wire goes to the Rh on the tstat and there is one white wire for the C connection and one for the W connection.
> 
> It works like a champ. Here are some benefits...
> 
> You can turn the stove on and off from work for your kids, start the stove on the drive home from work and have the house warm when you get home. Monitor the stove in a rental unit or a time share vacation home.
> 
> Good stuff!
> 
> View attachment 112141
> View attachment 112140


----------



## Harvey Schneider

mdhoward said:


> Scott - i have the same wifi t-stat and a millivolt gas fireplace at our cabin. I'd love to set it up so that we can pump up the heat before we head out for the cabin (2 hours) so that it's toasty when we get there.
> 
> You call out a RIB UC12 relay and what looks like an Edwards 592 transformer. I'm a little confused as the picture looks like a RIB UC2 relay.
> 
> Amazon has the following two items I think would work...
> 
> Heath Zenith Door Bell Transformer:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQY88I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> RIB U1C Relay:
> http://www.amazon.com/Functional-De...qid=1387679871&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=ribu1c
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. The transformer is 20A @ 24V...the relay is 10A. Is this a problem?
> 2. The relay only has one coil - the RIB U2C has two. Do I need more than one?
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike


The transformer is 20 VA That's Volt Amperes, a measure of the maximum power the transformer can deliver to the relay coil. That is more than enough. 
The 10 A spec on the relay is the contact rating.


----------



## WoodPorn

mdhoward said:


> Scott - i have the same wifi t-stat and a millivolt gas fireplace at our cabin. I'd love to set it up so that we can pump up the heat before we head out for the cabin (2 hours) so that it's toasty when we get there.
> 
> You call out a RIB UC12 relay and what looks like an Edwards 592 transformer. I'm a little confused as the picture looks like a RIB UC2 relay.
> 
> Amazon has the following two items I think would work...
> 
> Heath Zenith Door Bell Transformer:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQY88I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> RIB U1C Relay:
> http://www.amazon.com/Functional-De...qid=1387679871&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=ribu1c
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. The transformer is 20A @ 24V...the relay is 10A. Is this a problem?
> 2. The relay only has one coil - the RIB U2C has two. Do I need more than one?
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike




The xfmr will be fine with that relay, and no you don't need a UC2


----------



## smwilliamson

Sorry guys I've been busy. I used a RIB UC2 which is a double relay but I'm only using one side. They didnt have a UC1 when I was there.


----------



## bjosephwombat

Thanks for all of the postings.  Using information here and a few other places i installed a wifi tstat for a millivolt gas fireplace insert over the weekend.

tstat: Honeywell RTH8085WF

transformer: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007N5LJK/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


No Relay!!   Connected the R & W wires from the insert to the Rh and W on the tstat and the transformer wires to Rc and C on the tstat.   Everything works as expected and measured output volts at the insert terminals is not changed by the 24V at the Rc and C connectors.

Cons:
   - no support for an outside or indoor sensors on the tstat
   - the website is very basic,  current tstat settings only and email notifications on temperature changes above or below settable thresholds.  No temperature history or when the tstat called for heat like the Nest models.


----------



## RCCARPS

bjosephwombat said:


> Thanks for all of the postings.  Using information here and a few other places i installed a wifi tstat for a millivolt gas fireplace insert over the weekend.
> 
> tstat: Honeywell RTH8085WF
> 
> transformer: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007N5LJK/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> No Relay!!   Connected the R & W wires from the insert to the Rh and W on the tstat and the transformer wires to Rc and C on the tstat.   Everything works as expected and measured output volts at the insert terminals is not changed by the 24V at the Rc and C connectors.
> 
> Cons:
> - no support for an outside or indoor sensors on the tstat
> - the website is very basic,  current tstat settings only and email notifications on temperature changes above or below settable thresholds.  No temperature history or when the tstat called for heat like the Nest models.



Glad you got it to work!

Not sure which Honeywell stat that is.  I have never seen that model number.   I assume its one of their "wifi" models.    

For Honeywell stats to be able to utilize indoor and outdoor sensors you need to go with their "redlink" versions and accessories.    They connect to the internet via a redlink gateway which costs about $100.   I use that system in my house where I run 4 separate zones (basement, 1st floor, second floor, and pellet stove).   It is a little pricey up front but IMO worth it hands down in the long run.

The decent redlink millivolt honeywell stat costs about $100-120, internet gateway about $100, outdoor sensor about $50.   So all in around $250.  In addition you can had multiple "averaging" wireless indoor sensors and handheld remote.   Not sure what the wifi version of the Honeywell stat costs, but I am going to bet around $200-300, so its pretty much a wash.

Ryan


----------



## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> Wire it up man, no excuses. You haven't even got it out of the wrapper!



Here are some pics of a nice easy WiFi T-Stat install of the Ecobee WiFi Smart T-Stat on a nice Hampton GC-60
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-ecobee-eb-stat-02-install-pics.125728/


----------



## Harvey Schneider

Don2222 said:


> Here are some pics of a nice easy WiFi T-Stat install of the Ecobee WiFi Smart T-Stat on a nice Hampton GC-60
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/forums/the-pellet-mill-pellet-and-multifuel-stoves.14/


Your link doesn't reference a post.


----------



## hyfire

Harvey Schneider said:


> Your link doesn't reference a post.


Same here, takes me nowhere..


----------



## Don2222

hyfire said:


> Same here, takes me nowhere..


Sorry
It is now fixed
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-ecobee-eb-stat-02-install-pics.125728/


----------



## spaceboyusa

bjosephwombat said:


> Thanks for all of the postings.  Using information here and a few other places i installed a wifi tstat for a millivolt gas fireplace insert over the weekend.
> 
> tstat: Honeywell RTH8085WF
> 
> transformer: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007N5LJK/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> No Relay!!   Connected the R & W wires from the insert to the Rh and W on the tstat and the transformer wires to Rc and C on the tstat.   Everything works as expected and measured output volts at the insert terminals is not changed by the 24V at the Rc and C connectors.
> 
> Cons:
> - no support for an outside or indoor sensors on the tstat
> - the website is very basic,  current tstat settings only and email notifications on temperature changes above or below settable thresholds.  No temperature history or when the tstat called for heat like the Nest models.



First time poster so be kind...=).  I'm so trying to follow your lead, but have hit a roadblock.  I have a gas insert fireplace by Kingston (ZDV4236) that I want control wirelessly via the Honeywell.  I picked up the RTH6580 tstat (same as yours but with hard buttons/not touchscreen-enabled) and the same transformer.  I did NOT pick up the relay identified in the original post.  I am currently using a Skytech 5301P to regulate temp without issue, save for the no WiFi of course...=). I had an electrician friend stop by and run power from the 24V transformer to where the Skytech is/Honeywell will be.  There was a red and black wire that ran from the millivolt valve terminal block to the Skytech.  We plugged the 24V power and the red and black wire into the thermostat.  Thermostat powered up, I registered it on Honeywell's site, and controlled it from my notebook.  All good on that side but unfortunately the most important part isn't working:  I can't get the fireplace to kick on.  I set it to HEAT, cranked the temp to 90, and let it sit.  Nothing.  Fireplace would not kick on.  I'm thinking we didn't have the red and/or black wires from the millivolt terminal block plugged into the right spot on the thermostat, but maybe it's something else.  Any thoughts/guidance would be appreciated.


----------



## WoodPorn

This is a guess.....
Is the fireplace looking for a 24v signal, and the t-stat is merely dry contacts?


----------



## spaceboyusa

WoodPorn said:


> This is a guess.....
> Is the fireplace looking for a 24v signal, and the t-stat is merely dry contacts?


That's exactly what my electrician was thinking, given that the Skytech has 4 AA batteries in its "On/Off/Remote" transceiver box...the box that the red and black wires from the millivolt terminal block ran into.  If that's the case, and given the available 3 connectors on the millivolt terminal block (marked TH TP, TP, and TH respectively), any thoughts on where to run 24V power back to it?  The red and black wires currently are connected using the TP TH and TH connectors on the terminal block.


----------



## WoodPorn

I believe this is where the cube relay comes into play. If you look back at P1, SMWilliamson's schematic shows the tstat powering the coil on a cube relay and closing the contacts on the stove, kinda backwards of my previous post but the same principal.  Look into the stove owners manual and see what it is that the stove is looking for (signal)


----------



## Harvey Schneider

The relay contacts simply provides a contact closure for the millivolt circuit. The power for this circuit comes from a thermopile in the fireplace that is heated by the pilot light.
The 24 Volt circuit involves the thermostat, transformer and relay coil, all in series.
When the thermostat closes it's "contacts" it activates the relay.

If a thermostat can be set up for "dry contacts" you can connect it directly to the fireplace. Dry contacts means that it doesn't provide any Voltage to the load. This is usually set up by removing a jumper on the thermostat terminal board. You will have to read the manual for your thermostat to see if it is able to operate in that mode.


----------



## Dditillo

Hi guys, thanks so much for posting this info.   Can you help me with the wiring for the relay.
I check out the website and don't understand the schematics. I posted the URL below.  Basically 24volts on one side and Millivolt on the other but I can't tell how to connect it.


http://www.functionaldevices.com/pdf/datasheets/RIBU2C.pdf




smwilliamson said:


> Many stoves use millivolt jacks on their stoves. This poses a problem when you want  to use a thermostat that had functions etc...especially things like Wifi.
> 
> Basic heat only thermostats, such as mercury filled or the ye old slider style basically just complete a circuit when the temp falls below a specific set point. They don't need to be powered. As soon as you start using thermostats that have digital readouts, have clock, are programmable or connects to WiFi portals, one must power the thermostat. Most thermostats run on 24 volts. Your doorbell on your house may run on 24 volts too. Most central heating equipment will have some kind of transformer that powers the thermostat via the Rh and W wire connections. However,these connections will only power the thermostat when the unit is calling for heat, and that's what the C wire on the thermostat is for...to provide a common neutral wire for when the tstat is NOT calling for heat.
> 
> Many pellet and has stoves utilize milli-volt powered tstat jacks. The reasoning is that room heaters such as these should not be used as primary heating systems and as such and controls for them such as tstats should NOT be located too far away from the unit. Milli-volt current will not travel to far away so that is why they are used. What we don't want to happen is to have the stov calling for heat too soon after the unit has gone in to shut down mode. We call it short cycling and it can mess up the logic in the control board of the stove. Not permentaly, but perhaps enough to force the owner to unplug the unit and restart the system.
> 
> It the pictures below I have made a powered relay with a 24v transformer to allow a pellet stove with a milli-volt tstat jack to be used with a 24v C wire powered tstat. The one I am using is also WiFi enabled.
> 
> I chose the Cheaper one from lowes
> *Honeywell 7-Day Programmable Thermostat*
> Item #: 171234 |  Model #: RTH6580WF1001
> 
> The relay is a RIB UC12 and the transformer I got from Radio Shack.
> 
> The wires coming out of the j box to the left are not being used. The orange and the yellow coming out of the bottom go to the stove, the red wire goes to the Rh on the tstat and there is one white wire for the C connection and one for the W connection.
> 
> It works like a champ. Here are some benefits...
> 
> You can turn the stove on and off from work for your kids, start the stove on the drive home from work and have the house warm when you get home. Monitor the stove in a rental unit or a time share vacation home.
> 
> Good stuff!
> 
> View attachment 112141
> View attachment 112140


----------



## tjnamtiw

What kind of stove do you have, Dditillo?  Most don't need all this fancy wiring.  smwilliamson is really talking about very sophisticated thermostats.  The normal kind you see that are programmable, have digital clocks and readouts like you see on most of those in HD and Lowes just have a couple of AA batteries in them and simply complete the circuit from two terminals on most stoves except some Harmans.  You want to do some research however and find ones that have 'swing' adjustments on them.  Most of the Honeywells I've studied do NOT.  The Lux and mine do have the swing, which allows you to adjust the time between each startup by widening the on and off temperature set points.  You can read the manuals for them on the HD site.


----------



## Arti

Thanks for taking the time to post the wiring diagram and the parts list.. 
Just curious why not just purchase a Fan Control center which is exactly what you made except that it is already put together in one piece ready to mount on a 4x4 box?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STEVECO...d=100009&prg=9735&rk=1&rkt=10&sd=221366510986


----------



## AddictiveStew

Now my curiosity has been peaked. I originally had a Nest installed for my oil furnace (prior to the pellet stove) and I loved it. Once I got the pellet stove, I sold off the Nest to recoup some cost since the oil furnace was rendered (mostly) irrelevant. I do have the common wire available to power the Nest and that worked. I'm wondering if I could wire a relay in line and have the P43 as the primary and the oil as the secondary...


----------



## bmblank

AddictiveStew said:


> Now my curiosity has been peaked.


Piqued


----------



## spaceboyusa

Sorry for being dark for a while as I hadn't been back to my place since March.  Good news: Putting in the relay as indicated in smwilliamson's first post on this thread got everything to work!  The Honeywell 8580 is now firing the Kingsman Marquis millivolt fireplace and I can control the tstat via the Internet remotely!  All good, but just one remaining question.  Instead of an RIB relay, my electrician had an IDEC relay and when it powers on due to the temperature falling below the tstat heat setting, the fireplace turns on but there's an audible buzzing sound coming from the millivolt connectors/unit on the fireplace.  Is this being caused by the IDEC plug in he's using, or the IDEC in general?  Should I switch to the RIB U1C?


----------



## smwilliamson

spaceboyusa said:


> Sorry for being dark for a while as I hadn't been back to my place since March.  Good news: Putting in the relay as indicated in smwilliamson's first post on this thread got everything to work!  The Honeywell 8580 is now firing the Kingsman Marquis millivolt fireplace and I can control the tstat via the Internet remotely!  All good, but just one remaining question.  Instead of an RIB relay, my electrician had an IDEC relay and when it powers on due to the temperature falling below the tstat heat setting, the fireplace turns on but there's an audible buzzing sound coming from the millivolt connectors/unit on the fireplace.  Is this being caused by the IDEC plug in he's using, or the IDEC in general?  Should I switch to the RIB U1C?


Something's getting too much juice


----------



## WoodPorn

smwilliamson said:


> Something's getting too much juice


 
You lika da juice????


----------



## C. Blake

This is a great post, now if I can ask you professionals a question. I would like to hook a wireless tstat to my quadrafire mt. vernon and have the tstat located where my ac/furnace tstat and my whole house swamp cooler tstat are located. The reason for wireless is the design of my attic and location of the stove will make it tough to run tstat wire. Do I have any options for a wireless tstat?


----------



## chriscraft71

Hi all, have a current 2 wire millivolt Napoleon gas fireplace for summer home, heat only no AC. I am interested in installing the Honeywell wifi thermostat RTH9580WF sold at HomeDepot and have also heard that this stat may be able turn on my millivolt system without using a Relay. Similar to bjosephwombat. I plan to add 24volt plugable tranformer. I know Honeyewell mentions in the user manual this termostat do not work with millivolt system. Though I wonder if that is just because it requires a 24volt transformer, not able to get straight answer out of them as to why it would not. A couple of questions.

I plan to connect like this:
Transformer wire: White (24v) transformer wire to C and black (0v) transformer wire to RC of thermostat
Heat system wire: White wire to W and red wire to R on thermostat 

Question:
1. Do I really need to remove Jumper from RC+R? I do not have any other elements such as AC, just heat only system.
2. When the heat turns on from tstat what voltage should I expect to see coming from W and R on thermostat to the fireplace gas valve?
3. Do these 24 volt thermostats actually send voltage to the millivolt valves or just close circuit to start heat system?


----------



## hyfire

hyfire said:


> THe CI-800 does not have good data logging like the other wifi T stats that is the only problem with it, and you can;t stop the schedule, you have to put it on hold mode, but each time you turn the stat off you have to put it back on hold mode, sucks. I;m testing it a few days now it works fine, but I;m not sure if its a good idea to inject 24v into the millivolt contacts?




Last year I ran 24 volts to the contact on the stove and it worked... this year it didn't work.  I had to install the relay like everyone is suggesting.  Not sure why it worked last year and now it wont..But the relay is the best way to go... maybe something in the board got  damaged, but its working perfectly on the relay.,.


----------



## Skier76

Just curious...what's the purpose of the relay? I have a wifi t-stat hooked up my oil burner and central air. My C-Wire didn't have enough voltage to power the t-stat, so I used a transformer to power it. It's been chugging along fine for a few years. Couldn't the same be done for a wifi t-stat on a pellet stove? Hook up the two t-stat leads from the stove, power with a transformer...good to go? If I'm missing something, feel free to chime in.


----------



## hyfire

Skier76 said:


> Just curious...what's the purpose of the relay? I have a wifi t-stat hooked up my oil burner and central air. My C-Wire didn't have enough voltage to power the t-stat, so I used a transformer to power it. It's been chugging along fine for a few years. Couldn't the same be done for a wifi t-stat on a pellet stove? Hook up the two t-stat leads from the stove, power with a transformer...good to go? If I'm missing something, feel free to chime in.




Usually on pellet stove you usually just close a contact, you actually dont feed power into it like 24v on a normal furnace or AC unit.to turn it on.   However not all pellet stoves are the same, this is way mine is made anyway..


----------



## Pilo2000

Is it possible to install Honeywell RTH 9580 Wifi Smart Thermostat to Quardafire Mt. Vernon AE Pellet Stove (with thermostat controled 3 Wire Red, green and White)?


----------



## smwilliamson

chriscraft71 said:


> Hi all, have a current 2 wire millivolt Napoleon gas fireplace for summer home, heat only no AC. I am interested in installing the Honeywell wifi thermostat RTH9580WF sold at HomeDepot and have also heard that this stat may be able turn on my millivolt system without using a Relay. Similar to bjosephwombat. I plan to add 24volt plugable tranformer. I know Honeyewell mentions in the user manual this termostat do not work with millivolt system. Though I wonder if that is just because it requires a 24volt transformer, not able to get straight answer out of them as to why it would not. A couple of questions.
> 
> I plan to connect like this:
> Transformer wire: White (24v) transformer wire to C and black (0v) transformer wire to RC of thermostat
> Heat system wire: White wire to W and red wire to R on thermostat
> 
> Question:
> 1. Do I really need to remove Jumper from RC+R? I do not have any other elements such as AC, just heat only system.
> 2. When the heat turns on from tstat what voltage should I expect to see coming from W and R on thermostat to the fireplace gas valve?
> 3. Do these 24 volt thermostats actually send voltage to the millivolt valves or just close circuit to start heat system?


If you aren't using AC then you just need a wire Rh. When calling for heat the Rh and the W power the thermostat. When the heat is not calling, Rh and C power the thermostat. The deal with 3 wires running to this is that there always has to be a return to common for the tstat to have power...for the wifi, date, time and whatever other things it comes with. I suppose one could use batteries too but you need a lot of them to get 24v


----------



## Arti

Why not just hook up a 24 Volt transformer to RC And C this will power the thermostat just fine!
Take the jumper out from RC And RH, Hook up a wire from RH and W back to the pellet stove to make the stove work and you are done. No need for relays etc.


----------



## Pilo2000

Arti said:


> Why not just hook up a 24 Volt transformer to RC And C this will power the thermostat just fine!
> Take the jumper out from RC And RH, Hook up a wire from RH and W back to the pellet stove to make the stove work and you are done. No need for relays etc.


This exactly how a technician from Honeywell answered my question when I called them today. Just want t make sure. I don't want to blow my stove control board. Cost $450 or more.


----------



## Skier76

Pilo,
Keep us posted and post pics. That's a very similar setup to what I'm looking into.


----------



## Arti

Found this on another site.


----------



## Pilo2000

Arti said:


> Found this on another site.


Arti,
Nice find. 
I am going to connect my mt. Vernon to the new rth 9580wf exactly the way it showed in posted picture.
I have an extra Green Wire. I am assuming it will connect to terminal G.
This my first year with Quadrafire Mt. Vernon AE Pellet stove. I can't stop myself looking at it. This stove is beautiful. 
I read all the reviews Some good some bad. 
My stove is made in 2008 AE model. What a beast. Uses almost no pellet and puts out so much heat. It is unbelievable It heats my 2 floor 2000 sf house nicely. Living room cozy at 72F other rooms even the ones upstairs are 68-71 F.
My wife thinks I am obsessed with this stove. How can I not br.
I was buying oil 5 or 6 time every winter around $800 every time. Close to $5000 for heatng every winter. I am saving tons of money.
I have 3 tons of hardwood pellet in my basement. All set,
Stove used 5 basis of pellets in 13 days. I know it is not very cold yet.
Even I use a bag a day (I don't think I will) I am still saving tons of money.
3 tons of pellet cost me $750 plus $85 delivery and 4 hours of  involuntary exercise (putting the pellet in my basement)
Feels Goo. 
I can kiss this stove. No kidding. Bye bye oil man.


----------



## Skier76

Arti said:


> Found this on another site.




Excellent. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## chriscraft71

Arti said:


> Why not just hook up a 24 Volt transformer to RC And C this will power the thermostat just fine!
> Take the jumper out from RC And RH, Hook up a wire from RH and W back to the pellet stove to make the stove work and you are done. No need for relays etc.



Hi guys, thanks for your posts and responses, really helpful. Special thanks to Scott for starting this great post and for all the informative info. I'm in Canada and I've gotta say Honeywell tech support has not been helpful at all with connectivity options with the RTH9580WF. It is advertised as NO support for millivolt systems and they offer no further options to make it work. I'm quite sure it would work using 24v transformer and relay. Though would prefer just using a 24v transformer if possible. 

I actually have the YTHX9321R5079 Prestige 2.0 installed using the Redlink gateway for 3 years now and I am extremely happy with it. It is controlling my millivolt gas fireplace and I just found out the reason its working is that the W terminal on the Prestige thermostat actually has "Heat Relay" built in! So that is why I was able to get it to work first try. I wired the Prestige same as indicated above in my first post as well as the way Arti indicated, I did not need to remove the RC/R jumper though. Honeywell indicates the RTH9580WF does not have "Heat Relay" built into the W terminal so that is why I thought may need to add external relay. But if just removing RC/R jumper may do the trick that is definitely worth a try.


----------



## Wilbur Feral

Pilo2000 said:


> Is it possible to install Honeywell RTH 9580 Wifi Smart Thermostat to Quardafire Mt. Vernon AE Pellet Stove (with thermostat controled 3 Wire Red, green and White)?


To best of my knowledge, no 3rd party stat will work on an MVAE, because Quad (stupidly, at least for the customer) put half the brains of the stove itself in that flaky, third rate wall box they call a stat. Love my MVAE. Despise that stat.


----------



## Harvey Schneider

Pilo2000 said:


> I am going to connect my mt. Vernon to the new rth 9580wf exactly the way it showed in posted picture.
> I have an extra Green Wire. I am assuming it will connect to terminal G.
> This my first year with Quadrafire Mt. Vernon AE Pellet stove.


Don't do it.
The Mt Vernon AE controller is not a simple thermostat. It is a digital control system that operates at 3V. If you connect a 24V transformer to the stove you will likely do damage to the control board in the stove.


----------



## Skier76

I don't think he would be connecting the 24v to the stove, it would be to the wifi thermostat. As mentioned, that's how I run mine on my home HVAC. It's to power the wifi radio in the t-stat itself. You can use batteries, but you would be changing them out daily. Wifi uses some juice.


----------



## Harvey Schneider

Skier76 said:


> I don't think he would be connecting the 24v to the stove, it would be to the wifi thermostat. As mentioned, that's how I run mine on my home HVAC. It's to power the wifi radio in the t-stat itself. You can use batteries, but you would be changing them out daily. Wifi uses some juice.


I see, my miscomprehension, But in any case a relay will not control the MVAE. At best it will do nothing, at worst it will short out the 3V supply.


----------



## Skier76

Harvey Schneider said:


> I see, my miscomprehension, But in any case a relay will not control the MVAE. At best it will do nothing, at worst it will short out the 3V supply.



That certainly is an interesting setup those stove use. A wifi t-stat seems like it would be a real challenge to install. If even possible.


----------



## Harvey Schneider

I came across this blog today and I thought others might be interested.


----------



## bcarton

I'd like to thank both Scott and Don for giving me a good laugh today.  I'm new here so I don't know all the players, but it's kind of obvious that the folks in the business are a little bit busy and stressed. I really do appreciate the fact that they take time to help out all of us consumers with their knowledge and experience - but I would not want to be your shoes, guys. Not the week before Thanksgiving in New England.


----------



## smwilliamson

Harvey Schneider said:


> I came across this blog today and I thought others might be interested.


A bit wordy, yes.


----------



## Skier76

Here's a pic of my wifi t-stat wiring. This runs our heat (hot water baseboard) and central air (air handler is in the attic). 

The black wire in the c terminal and black with white stripe in the RH terminal are the wires from the transformer. 

This is a 3m-50 I bought at Home Depot a few years ago. It has a touch screen you can use to make adjustments. But we always use the app.  

With a pellet stove, I'm thinking you'll only see 4 wires: two from the stove and two from the transformer. I plan on hooking one up to my GCI60at some point this winter.


----------



## Harvey Schneider

smwilliamson said:


> A bit wordy, yes.


Of course it's wordy, it's a blog. He needs to impress us. I mean he has a real need to impress us (for whatever reason).
There are, however, some important details in there. The one that caught my eye was the comment about cloud server based thermostats. If your access to the internet is cut by the forces of nature, you have no control over your thermostat? That is insane. Technology run amuck. I want my control to be strictly local.
Don't get me wrong, I love high tech gadgets, but I don't want to lose control of my gadgets because of the weather or because some hacker found my thermostat on the web.


----------



## smwilliamson

I don't know...You can still use the Nest TSTAT without a wifi....locally anyway. You may not be able to do it remotely but the functions still work without the network, you just don't get reporting, remote control or weather detail.


----------



## Ralbert

Scott, thanks so much for all the info on this site. I would like to control a gas stove (milivolt system) in my vacation home through WiFi. Can I do this with the setup that you posted at the start of this thread? Are gas stoves and pellet stoves controlled the same way? Would I be correct in saying that a normal WiFi tstat won't work because there is no dedicated power source (C-Wire) available b/c I am on a milivolt system, therefore I need to put in the 24V transformer and relay? (I am trying to sum up your opening post to make sure I understand...) Then I can plug that in to an outlet, wire the rest, and be good to go? I AM using it as my primary heat source, since the other option would be to use the electric heat, which will cost me a fortune. Do you know if it is ok to use a gas stove as the primary source long term? 

Again, thanks so much!


----------



## smwilliamson

Ralbert said:


> Scott, thanks so much for all the info on this site. I would like to control a gas stove (milivolt system) in my vacation home through WiFi. Can I do this with the setup that you posted at the start of this thread? Are gas stoves and pellet stoves controlled the same way? Would I be correct in saying that a normal WiFi tstat won't work because there is no dedicated power source (C-Wire) available b/c I am on a milivolt system, therefore I need to put in the 24V transformer and relay? (I am trying to sum up your opening post to make sure I understand...) Then I can plug that in to an outlet, wire the rest, and be good to go? I AM using it as my primary heat source, since the other option would be to use the electric heat, which will cost me a fortune. Do you know if it is ok to use a gas stove as the primary source long term?
> 
> Again, thanks so much!


stoves are not primary sources of heat. They are stoves and are considered decorative appliances. How you choose to use your stove is up to you. Yes, the system I have put forward would work on a gas stove too that uses a millivolt signal, though I'm not 100% how a gas stove generates the millivolt signal.


----------



## dougzdog

Arti said:


> Why not just hook up a 24 Volt transformer to RC And C this will power the thermostat just fine!
> Take the jumper out from RC And RH, Hook up a wire from RH and W back to the pellet stove to make the stove work and you are done. No need for relays etc.


This is safe for millivolt stove?  Do all thermostats have the jumper?


----------



## DBCOOPER

smwilliamson said:


> stoves are not primary sources of heat. They are stoves and are considered decorative appliances. How you choose to use your stove is up to you. Yes, the system I have put forward would work on a gas stove too that uses a millivolt signal, though I'm not 100% how a gas stove generates the millivolt signal.



On a gas stove the millivolt signal is generated by the pilot light acting on a thermocouple which makes a voltage that lets the gas valve open. Once the pilot light is established then a thermostat closes its contacts the gas valve will open. It works the same as the proof of fire thermocouple works on a Quad. I don't know of any pellet stoves that use a pilot light so they don't require a millivolt thermostat. Any switch closure should work, be it a dry contact thermostat, relay or even timer. At least that's the way it is with my Quad.Same thing for a gas stove with a standing pilot, any dry contact will make it come on. Intermittent pilots are a different story.


----------



## DBCOOPER

dougzdog said:


> This is safe for millivolt stove?  Do all thermostats have the jumper?



The R and C provide the power for the thermostat. Inside the thermostat are small relays that open and close based on the thermostat settings. The R and RH are jumpered because in a typical heating system everything is running off of one transformer so it saves running an extra power wire to RH.  So if you remove the jumper you end up with a switch between RH and W and when the stat calls for heat that switch closes and it's not connected to anything but the wires that you connect to RH and W. So yes it's safe to do that on a millivolt stove.


----------



## romaniuk

Bioburner said:


> Not bad at all. Under two Franklins. Medium skill level to accomplish?


Yes, its really good.


----------



## smwilliamson

Arti said:


> Found this on another site.


That's fine so long as the run to the stove is short from the tstat. You cannot reliably send a millivolt signal very far that's why we use 24v


----------



## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> That's fine so long as the run to the stove is short from the tstat. You cannot reliably send a millivolt signal very far that's why we use 24v



The new Lowes Iris WiFi TSAT is millivolt and only $99 !
The basic service is free, no monthly charge!
I use it on my Quad in the workshop now!
See pics
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...off-cupon-good-till-2-16.140045/#post-1882599


----------



## Arti

smwilliamson said:


> That's fine so long as the run to the stove is short from the tstat. You cannot reliably send a millivolt signal very far that's why we use 24v



 I remember reading the directions one time that if you increase the wire size to #14 wire the max length was only 75 feet for a Honeywell millivolt system.
This usually isn't an issue in residential settings but in a commercial settings it can be a problem.
Just out of curiosity are these really Millivolt controls in Pellet stoves or does the thermostat just open and close a circuit on the control board?
Haven't seen a lot of Pellet stoves but out of the dozen brands I've been into not a one has a Thermopile in it to create a millivolt signal.
I suspect that Millivolt compatible Thermostat is specified because they want a dry contact to control the Pellet Stove?


----------



## dpc

Say that I can power the WIFI thermostat, with 24vac.  Can I use a relay to convert my WIFI thermostat heat control output line signal, on R and W I think, to control my millivolt fireplace circuit?

I have a millivolt circuit that runs from the fireplace to a wall switch.  The switch turns my fireplace flame on and off.  I want the thermostat to do this in the future.  

Anyone know where I can find the perfect relay for this?


----------



## Don2222

Hello
I just got the Lowes Iris WiFi Thermostat, it can be used with Millivolt appliances like your gas fireplace and you can control every thing else in your house too! 
http://m.lowes.com/pd/Iris-7-Day-Touch-Screen-Programmable-Thermostat-Works-with-Iris/3735317


----------



## smwilliamson

dpc said:


> Say that I can power the WIFI thermostat, with 24vac.  Can I use a relay to convert my WIFI thermostat heat control output line signal, on R and W I think, to control my millivolt fireplace circuit?
> 
> I have a millivolt circuit that runs from the fireplace to a wall switch.  The switch turns my fireplace flame on and off.  I want the thermostat to do this in the future.
> 
> Anyone know where I can find the perfect relay for this?


Use the parts I outlined. It will work.


----------



## smwilliamson

Arti said:


> I remember reading the directions one time that if you increase the wire size to #14 wire the max length was only 75 feet for a Honeywell millivolt system.
> This usually isn't an issue in residential settings but in a commercial settings it can be a problem.
> Just out of curiosity are these really Millivolt controls in Pellet stoves or does the thermostat just open and close a circuit on the control board?
> Haven't seen a lot of Pellet stoves but out of the dozen brands I've been into not a one has a Thermopile in it to create a millivolt signal.
> I suspect that Millivolt compatible Thermostat is specified because they want a dry contact to control the Pellet Stove?


That is correct. Whatever the distance is to the stove we have to double it for send and return


----------



## WoodPorn

smwilliamson said:


> That is correct. Whatever the distance is to the stove we have to double it for send and return


Scotty, you're so smart!


----------



## WoodPorn

And one heck of a model american.....


----------



## ispt17

Arti said:


> Found this on another site.


Hello, I am new here......I own a Osburn 5000 pellet stove and I bought a Nest 3 gen thermostat.... 
1. From stove I got 2.5 - 3.5 V
2. Nest request 24 V
can I do same like in pictures, is safe for my pellet stove or I do need a relay too? 
thank you


----------



## Westwind

I am new to this board. I have been reading this thread and trying to understand this. I am truly a novice . I have a vacation home that I recently purchased. It has a SCI CEM24 talking thermostat. It requires a landline to communicate with. Since I do not want a landline I have been experimenting with a gateway that connects my wiring with a cell phone.  The thermostat will answer but will not recognize the tones from the cellphone. This thermostat controls a gas fireplace insert. I bought  a Honeywell wifi thermostat as in the OP but was told by customer service that it won't work because it has a millivolt contact. My question is to do the conversion as described, I already have an R and a C wire at the thermostat. What would I need to do from there?


----------



## naren

I just bought Harman XXV stove. This thing works like a champ. I would like to have the stove connected to wi-fi. There are two option described in this thread. One is Honeywell Thermostat and Ecobee Stat-02. I was wondering if I could use Ecobee3 model in one of the the options.


----------



## smwilliamson

naren said:


> I just bought Harman XXV stove. This thing works like a champ. I would like to have the stove connected to wi-fi. There are two option described in this thread. One is Honeywell Thermostat and Ecobee Stat-02. I was wondering if I could use Ecobee3 model in one of the the options.


Yes, but when temp is achieved on the stove it will error #4 and go to shut down mode. It will start back up when the call comes back and the error will go away till the tstat is satisfied again. No harm will come to the stove, it's just that Harman uses a thermistor that always has a circuit. When the tstat opens the circuit opens and the error shows up.


----------



## Don2222

smwilliamson said:


> Yes, but when temp is achieved on the stove it will error #4 and go to shut down mode. It will start back up when the call comes back and the error will go away till the tstat is satisfied again. No harm will come to the stove, it's just that Harman uses a thermistor that always has a circuit. When the tstat opens the circuit opens and the error shows up.


Harman has a technical bulletin on how to use their stoves with a T-stat. They suggest to make the set temp on the T-stat to 95 Deg and then set the stove to the desired room temp.
I connect the Lowe's Iris T-stat with swing setting set to 2 degrees and connect the 2 wires in series to one of the room probe wires on my workshop's Harman Advance. Then I can manually  turn the stove on and off with my iPhone or use a schedule and see what the temp in the room is on my iPhone. It works very well unless the stove runs out of pellets, then I have to reset the stove.


----------



## naren

Don2222 said:


> Harman has a technical bulletin on how to use their stoves with a T-stat. They suggest to make the set temp on the T-stat to


----------



## naren

Looking at wiring diagram in the OP does the  24v wire goes Rh, W and C in the thermostat? 
Could you mind drawing a wiring diagram to connect the iris in series with the room probe?


----------



## Don2222

naren said:


> Looking at wiring diagram in the OP does the  24v wire goes Rh, W and C in the thermostat?
> Could you mind drawing a wiring diagram to connect the iris in series with the room probe?


Cannot use a 24v T-Stat unless you build a relay.
A millivolt T-Stat connected to Rh & W works well.

Here is the Harman Bulletin
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/thermostat-to-harman-p43.152720/#post-2049693

Here is my diagram
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stat-to-the-avalon-astoria.72930/#post-921673


----------



## naren

I bought the RTH 8500 Tstat on the Black Friday deals at 80 bucks hoping to work with out any issue if I do the wiring as drawn in OP. XXV stove did not work when I connected the relay directly to the male disconnects where the room temp sensing probe was connected, the stove did not turn on when it called for heat. I double checked all the the wiring and also did a continuity check to make sure relay is working properly. It was wired properly but still stove did not turn on. I was desperate to make this work and  connected my room temp probe in series with the relay ( this post mention in by Don) combing with the other setup in the OP. 3 hrs later everything looks to be working fine with Wifi tstat. Thanks smwilliamson and don2222.


----------



## Lake Girl

Nice that you are up and running!


----------



## bogieb

naren said:


> I bought the RTH 8500 Tstat on the Black Friday deals at 80 bucks hoping to work with out any issue if I do the wiring as drawn in OP. XXV stove did not work when I connected the relay directly to the male disconnects where the room temp sensing probe was connected, the stove did not turn on when it called for heat. I double checked all the the wiring and also did a continuity check to make sure relay is working properly. It was wired properly but still stove did not turn on. I was desperate to make this work and  connected my room temp probe in series with the relay ( this post mention in by Don) combing with the other setup in the OP. 3 hrs later everything looks to be working fine with Wifi tstat. Thanks smwilliamson and don2222.



Although my t-stat on the P43 isn't wifi, I have it set up with the temp prove in series and it works great. I set the stove temp at 75 and my thermostat at what I want the temp to be (68-69 currently) and it works great. I did find that when hooked up this way, I cannot use room temp / manual with the stove, which is what I would normally do in the extremely cold weather. However, if I want to run the stove constantly, with a constant high fan, I just put it in stove temp / auto and use the feed rate to modulate the temp in the house.


----------



## dbuff

Hi I am new here. I have a Napoleon NPS45 pellet stove. I find it frustrating reading up on what the definition of a millivolt system is and how easy the stove plugs into my Honeywell rth2310b and works fine as it would not work if the power was out. I am looking to install an ecobee3 lite but would use a nest or lyric whatever would work. I have a goodman furnace/airhandler that is only wired to the thermostat Rh and W at this point for forced hot air. I would like to run a new 5 wire line from the furnace to the new thermostat so that I can utilize the fan as well as have the Y and Rc for central air at some point. It would also include a C wire so that I can power the thermostat from there. I would then want to wire the pellet stove as well but would want it to be the primary heat source as pellets are cheaper than propane with the inefficient furnace.  from use a wiring diagram I think it would just need to plug the stove into W and Rh of the ecobee and wire the furnace to w2 to make it the second stage or emergency heat. I am sure it doesn't work that way so I would also like to know what kind of relay I would need. I am guessing if I can use the power from the furnace to power the thermostat that I wouldn't need the transformer for power. Any information is greatly appreciated.


----------



## James76

Hey folks,  I recently was successful is installing the Honeywell RTH6500 on my napolean gas stove.  

One thing I was not anticipating was the unit was cycling on 5 to 6 times per hour even though the desired temp was being maintained.  Most times the stove would only come on for a few mins.  It is my understanding that short cycling is not good for gas stoves.

I've done some research and that heating cycle rates settings may be the culprit.  Seeing that there  appears to be folks who have successfully installed programmable thermo's on their stoves I am wondering if anyone else has run into this problem or has any suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## Arti

James76 said:


> Hey folks,  I recently was successful is installing the Honeywell RTH6500 on my napolean gas stove.
> 
> One thing I was not anticipating was the unit was cycling on 5 to 6 times per hour even though the desired temp was being maintained.  Most times the stove would only come on for a few mins.  It is my understanding that short cycling is not good for gas stoves.
> 
> I've done some research and that heating cycle rates settings may be the culprit.  Seeing that there  appears to be folks who have successfully installed programmable thermo's on their stoves I am wondering if anyone else has run into this problem or has any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks



I believe it is Function number 5 in the Setup Menu that sets the cycles per hour.
This thermostat is called a comfort tstat it doesn't really heat to a set point it calculates how many minutes the unit needs to run an hour to maintain a temperature and then breaks this up into 3,5,9, or 1 cycles per hour and then runs so many minutes per cycle. If you look in the install manual and find the setting for steam or hot water it will cut the cycle rate down for you. 

Also you may want to look at the smart response settings.
I'm not familiar with this particular model thermostat but it may have an adjustable swing temp setting in it although most honeywell thermostats don't. They maintain within approx 1/2 degree of set temp, I find most wood/pellet stoves live a 2 or 3 degree swing.


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## RavingZeus

Don2222 said:


> Harman has a technical bulletin on how to use their stoves with a T-stat. They suggest to make the set temp on the T-stat to 95 Deg and then set the stove to the desired room temp.
> I connect the Lowe's Iris T-stat with swing setting set to 2 degrees and connect the 2 wires in series to one of the room probe wires on my workshop's Harman Advance. Then I can manually  turn the stove on and off with my iPhone or use a schedule and see what the temp in the room is on my iPhone. It works very well unless the stove runs out of pellets, then I have to reset the stove.




Hi, I have a Harman P43

If i refer to the Technical bulletin of Harman Tstat need to be connected in serie with the probe.
If I use the schematic in the first post to connect a WIFI Tsat with the relay and a 24volt power source, do I still need to connect the room probe in serie?  If yes, were do I put the probe in serie exactly in the diagram?

Thanks for your help


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## RavingZeus

Everything works perfectly, just connect the Harman temp probe in serie with the relay output.

Thanks for the info!


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## bmwmaw

smwilliamson said:


> Yes, but when temp is achieved on the stove it will error #4 and go to shut down mode. It will start back up when the call comes back and the error will go away till the tstat is satisfied again. No harm will come to the stove, it's just that Harman uses a thermistor that always has a circuit. When the tstat opens the circuit opens and the error shows up.



I have a PF100 furnace with the Harmon wall control. So according to Harman's set back thermostat install I have to wire the Tstat in series with the wall control.  Do I have to use the wall control knob?  I'd rather just use the programmable Tstat.   Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either method?


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## bmwmaw

smwilliamson said:


> That's fine so long as the run to the stove is short from the tstat. You cannot reliably send a millivolt signal very far that's why we use 24v


Thanks for the good info - just to confirm again, I don't need the relay as long as I remove the R and Rc jumper and am not running very far?  I think my Tstat is only going to be maybe 10-15 feet from the pellet furnace.


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## Nigel459

Arti said:


> Why not just hook up a 24 Volt transformer to RC And C this will power the thermostat just fine!
> Take the jumper out from RC And RH, Hook up a wire from RH and W back to the pellet stove to make the stove work and you are done. No need for relays etc.





Arti said:


> Found this on another site.


Just wanted to reply to this thread to say: The above worked great for me with a Honeywell (Wifi RTH6580) thermostat.

Wanted to update as I have been searching and searching for something to corroborate my findings (i.e. you might not need the relay, since there's one built in to the thermostat!) and finally stumbled across Arti's posts. If there's a way to update the first post of this thread, which says you need a relay, that would have saved me some time.

Thanks @Arti! Cheers all and happy thermostatting


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## maihem.rc

smwilliamson said:


> Many stoves use millivolt jacks on their stoves. This poses a problem when you want  to use a thermostat that had functions etc...especially things like Wifi.
> 
> Basic heat only thermostats, such as mercury filled or the ye old slider style basically just complete a circuit when the temp falls below a specific set point. They don't need to be powered. As soon as you start using thermostats that have digital readouts, have clock, are programmable or connects to WiFi portals, one must power the thermostat. Most thermostats run on 24 volts. Your doorbell on your house may run on 24 volts too. Most central heating equipment will have some kind of transformer that powers the thermostat via the Rh and W wire connections. However,these connections will only power the thermostat when the unit is calling for heat, and that's what the C wire on the thermostat is for...to provide a common neutral wire for when the tstat is NOT calling for heat.
> 
> Many pellet and has stoves utilize milli-volt powered tstat jacks. The reasoning is that room heaters such as these should not be used as primary heating systems and as such and controls for them such as tstats should NOT be located too far away from the unit. Milli-volt current will not travel to far away so that is why they are used. What we don't want to happen is to have the stov calling for heat too soon after the unit has gone in to shut down mode. We call it short cycling and it can mess up the logic in the control board of the stove. Not permentaly, but perhaps enough to force the owner to unplug the unit and restart the system.
> 
> It the pictures below I have made a powered relay with a 24v transformer to allow a pellet stove with a milli-volt tstat jack to be used with a 24v C wire powered tstat. The one I am using is also WiFi enabled.
> 
> I chose the Cheaper one from lowes
> *Honeywell 7-Day Programmable Thermostat*
> Item #: 171234 |  Model #: RTH6580WF1001
> 
> The relay is a RIB UC12 and the transformer I got from Radio Shack.
> 
> The wires coming out of the j box to the left are not being used. The orange and the yellow coming out of the bottom go to the stove, the red wire goes to the Rh on the tstat and there is one white wire for the C connection and one for the W connection.
> 
> It works like a champ. Here are some benefits...
> 
> You can turn the stove on and off from work for your kids, start the stove on the drive home from work and have the house warm when you get home. Monitor the stove in a rental unit or a time share vacation home.
> 
> Good stuff!
> 
> View attachment 112141
> View attachment 112140



Thank you.  Got a Harman Accentra 52i in September of 2016 and immediately set out to control it with a nest thermostat.  Your wiring diagram and list of parts was exactly what I needed.  The only thing I did differently was to set two boxes under the house for the high voltage transformer to be separated at much as possible from the low/milli voltage per electrical code as one of my coworkers is an electrician and advised as such to avoid any issues.  I will try to remember to crawl back under the house to post pictures for anyone that is interested.
Has worked flawlessly since install and makes my wife very happy that we can remotely control and/or schedule heat.  We heat with the 52i all winter long and only have the HVAC system set to circulate air 15 minutes of every hour when we are home to distribute heat in our two story house.
Sorry I did not give you props earlier.


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