# PRICES GOING UP BIG THIS YEAR AGAIN ON PELLETS



## HOGG0494 (Mar 26, 2015)

checking out the early buy prices in hudson valley area and were gonna get gouged again this year.everywhere i see has gone up 10-15% per ton.$279-299 average last year for premium pellets now $319-329 this year.any higher it will be better to bend over for the oil guy again.as soon as people find a way to save money,others find a way to take it away.


----------



## john193 (Mar 26, 2015)

I find this time of the year isnt favorable for consumers. There is typically a dip in prices in my area right around June through August. My experience says to wait.


----------



## Bioburner (Mar 26, 2015)

I think several have already gotten a delivery of fossil fuels because of the high cost of pellets. Was a report of fuel oil at $2.06
Crude went over $51 this AM


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 26, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> checking out the early buy prices in hudson valley area and were gonna get gouged again this year.everywhere i see has gone up 10-15% per ton.$279-299 average last year for premium pellets now $319-329 this year.any higher it will be better to bend over for the oil guy again.as soon as people find a way to save money,others find a way to take it away.



The consumer can vote with their feet.  In the early sixties, I remember the sugar industry pulled some crap and prices soared.  A consumer boycott ensued and it wasn't long before prices fell back to their previous levels.  Cigars went through this ten years ago when it became "fashionable" to smoke a cigar and one dollar cigars became five dollar cigars almost overnight.  Same price spikes with milk in the late sixties and memory chips in the eighties.  If demand drops next year due to low oil, NG, and LP prices and we have a normal winter, watch what happens to prices.  You'll hear all kinds of reasons why the price is so high but greed, also called capitalism, is the underlying cause


----------



## john193 (Mar 26, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> The consumer can vote with their feet.  In the early sixties, I remember the sugar industry pulled some crap and prices soared.  A consumer boycott ensued and it wasn't long before prices fell back to their previous levels.  Cigars went through this ten years ago when it became "fashionable" to smoke a cigar and one dollar cigars became five dollar cigars almost overnight.  Same price spikes with milk in the late sixties and memory chips in the eighties.  If demand drops next year due to low oil, NG, and LP prices and we have a normal winter, watch what happens to prices.  You'll here all kinds of reasons why the price is so high but greed, also called capitalism, is the underlying cause


I think some of this is already happening. A pellet stove is an investment and people could justify it over oil when oil was 3.75+ a gallon. But that equation doesn't make much if any financial sense now. This year I actually turned on my boiler and filled up at 2.09 a gallon.


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 26, 2015)

I've already read CL ads like "I'm switching to gas" or "going back to oil" or "decided to go back to wood", etc., and my pellet stove is for sale, etc.


----------



## btuser (Mar 26, 2015)

Wait till/if Russia shuts off the gas tap.  We are already shipping pellets across the ocean.  Biomass exports are doubling every year with prices in europe hovering $400/ton (Old data, old exchange rate).  If they build a pipeline to export ng then EVERYTHING  is going up!


----------



## Bioburner (Mar 26, 2015)

The Arabs are throwing ordinance so watch out, crude prices are blasting off.


----------



## john193 (Mar 26, 2015)

S. Arabia has plenty of financial reserves to weather the lower crude prices. They are merely trying to kill the competition, ie shale here in the US, Iran and a few other opec countries they'd rather see whither away. Then they will jack up the prices.


----------



## Tonyray (Mar 26, 2015)

This time of year..[it's still March] pellets are not cheap/
I am waiting till late spring/summer....unless someone here has a magic looking glass and can see prices in August.


----------



## 3650 (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm not waiting until August. I'm starting to pile wood now. I'll be getting a summer fill with the propane. I've got 1.5 tons left over. I'll stay warm next winter between the three. Might toss in a ton of corn to mix with the pellets. Thinking about putting a rocket stove in the living room to burn scrap the pallet makers give away for free.


----------



## jumpinin (Mar 26, 2015)

I think we are still in winter pricing mode in the Hudson Valley - we have yet to have any consecutive warm days and well below freezing at night. I think early buy won't start till May - and hopefully prices ease up then.


----------



## kinsmanstoves (Mar 26, 2015)

I would not expect more than $5 or $10 a ton off current pricing.  If it is cheaper to burn Fuel oil, NG, LP, or electric then why are you not doing so?  No one ever told anyone to shut off their furnace.

Eric


----------



## Tonyray (Mar 26, 2015)

kinsmanstoves said:


> I would not expect more than $5 or $10 a ton off current pricing.  If it is cheaper to burn Fuel oil, NG, LP, or electric then why are you not doing so?  No one ever told anyone to shut off their furnace.
> 
> Eric


agreed...
next winter heating doesn't begin again for another 6 or 7 months and already the doomsayers are against pellets...
do any here profess to really know what Traditional heating will cost by then? Oil/Propane/Oil.?
rather get few tons pellets long  before then. this way can't lose.....always can use the Oil furnace if oil stays low and save pellets for whenever.


----------



## rona (Mar 26, 2015)

Menards has indeck at 200 a ton. Good enough for me so bought 4 ton just getting them today.


----------



## CladMaster (Mar 26, 2015)

I decided to buy early too, got 5 tons in the driveway ready for 2015/16 season, paid $5.05 per bag and that included the delivery charge.


----------



## kinsmanstoves (Mar 26, 2015)

Any pellets left over will stay for the next season if kept in the garage out of the sun light.  

Eric


----------



## Bioburner (Mar 26, 2015)

rona said:


> Menards has indeck at 200 a ton. Good enough for me so bought 4 ton just getting them today.


Bad time for the alternator to go south on the 1 ton van


----------



## HOGG0494 (Mar 26, 2015)

i think you guys are exactly right.they can have 100 different reasons for raising the prices,but it's GREED.they tried to get us to pay ridiculous oil.electric and nat.gas/propane prices for the last few years and when we all went to pellet stoves they have to find a way to jack those prices up.i converted my house to propane heat 4 years ago to save on oil.was paying 1.79 gallon for propane,then 2 years ago propane goes to 4.39 gallon.got a pellet stove to save and was paying $229 ton for pellets,now $319 a ton.they just can't stop beating us down.they can say all they want about oil/gas and food prices but the bottom line is they raise them because they can.wasn't the Obama tax hike a few years back enough blood money from us all?i lost $60 a week from my household income.they how about when they started taxing electric and fuel prices.thank goodness that didn't last long.politics is a rich man's game that we pay for.


----------



## fire_man (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm waiting for them to figure how how to charge a tax on the trees I cut down for my firewood.


----------



## kinsmanstoves (Mar 26, 2015)

It will be coming soon when they add a federal tax on pellets just like there is on electric, fuel oil, NG, and LP.  

eric


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 26, 2015)

fire_man said:


> I'm waiting for them to figure how how to charge a tax on the trees I cut down for my firewood.



The only reason solar is not cheap or plentiful is the politics of taxing the sun hasn't crystallized yet.


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 26, 2015)

kinsmanstoves said:


> It will be coming soon when they add a federal tax on pellets just like there is on electric, fuel oil, NG, and LP.
> 
> eric



Since when has there ever been a fed tax on electricity or on heating oil or natural gas for heating purposes?


----------



## HOGG0494 (Mar 26, 2015)

we had the tax on it last year.lasted about 3 months,then i guess enough people complained or they got embarrassed when the elderly went on t.v and explained how they have to choose between food or heat,so they did away with it


----------



## Old Spartan (Mar 26, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> we had the tax on it last year.lasted about 3 months,then i guess enough people complained or they got embarrassed when the elderly went on t.v and explained how they have to choose between food or heat,so they did away with it



Never heard of such a Federal Tax, State yes though. Do you have a link to the former Federal Tax.

The Feds have energy tax credits and grants for heating fuels INCLUDING wood pellets for the less fortunate and elderly.


----------



## BrotherBart (Mar 26, 2015)

Yeah the feds just tax road use fuels. If a pellet car comes around then....


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 26, 2015)

Coal's still $170 a ton for all you PA folks who love your pellets!


----------



## kappel15 (Mar 26, 2015)

kinsmanstoves said:


> Any pellets left over will stay for the next season if kept in the garage out of the sun light.
> 
> Eric


I've got pellets in the shop from 4 years ago. As long as you take care of em, they last a long time. kap


----------



## 3650 (Mar 26, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> i think you guys are exactly right.they can have 100 different reasons for raising the prices,but it's GREED.they tried to get us to pay ridiculous oil.electric and nat.gas/propane prices for the last few years and when we all went to pellet stoves they have to find a way to jack those prices up.i converted my house to propane heat 4 years ago to save on oil.was paying 1.79 gallon for propane,then 2 years ago propane goes to 4.39 gallon.got a pellet stove to save and was paying $229 ton for pellets,now $319 a ton.they just can't stop beating us down.they can say all they want about oil/gas and food prices but the bottom line is they raise them because they can.wasn't the Obama tax hike a few years back enough blood money from us all?i lost $60 a week from my household income.they how about when they started taxing electric and fuel prices.thank goodness that didn't last long.politics is a rich man's game that we pay for.



you


HOGG0494 said:


> i think you guys are exactly right.they can have 100 different reasons for raising the prices,but it's GREED.they tried to get us to pay ridiculous oil.electric and nat.gas/propane prices for the last few years and when we all went to pellet stoves they have to find a way to jack those prices up.i converted my house to propane heat 4 years ago to save on oil.was paying 1.79 gallon for propane,then 2 years ago propane goes to 4.39 gallon.got a pellet stove to save and was paying $229 ton for pellets,now $319 a ton.they just can't stop beating us down.they can say all they want about oil/gas and food prices but the bottom line is they raise them because they can.wasn't the Obama tax hike a few years back enough blood money from us all?i lost $60 a week from my household income.they how about when they started taxing electric and fuel prices.thank goodness that didn't last long.politics is a rich man's game that we pay for.


you hit the nail on the head there. Stop buying pellets. Watch them scramble to absorb all they inventory. They hate having inventory on hand.


----------



## lagger (Mar 26, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> i think you guys are exactly right.they can have 100 different reasons for raising the prices,but it's GREED.they tried to get us to pay ridiculous oil.electric and nat.gas/propane prices for the last few years and when we all went to pellet stoves they have to find a way to jack those prices up.i converted my house to propane heat 4 years ago to save on oil.was paying 1.79 gallon for propane,then 2 years ago propane goes to 4.39 gallon.got a pellet stove to save and was paying $229 ton for pellets,now $319 a ton.they just can't stop beating us down.they can say all they want about oil/gas and food prices but the bottom line is they raise them because they can.wasn't t*he Obama tax hike a few years back *enough blood money from us all?i lost $60 a week from my household income.they how about when they started taxing electric and fuel prices.thank goodness that didn't last long.politics is a rich man's game that we pay for.



what tax hike was that ?? my payroll tax didn't go up, capital gains did, and rightly so imo but I never saw an increase in my net from my job, here's a list of all the tax hikes that _are_ attributable to the POTUS policies from a conservative site:

http://www.atr.org/full-list-ACA-tax-hikes-a6996

also I got a 300 dollar credit this year on my fed tax for my biomass purchase


----------



## HOGG0494 (Mar 27, 2015)

The White House report released this week — ahead of the vote in the Senate Wednesday to extend tax cuts for household income below $250,000 — does mention two years of payroll tax cuts that Obama pushed through in 2011 and 2012, but only when talking about how much money the president has saved American families:

stops getting collectedon income over $110,100.)

 But Obama has not proposed extending the payroll tax cut — the White House spokesman has danced around the issue, saying it is “something that we would look at in December”— and there is little appetite on Capitol Hill for extending it either. (Republicans have never liked the concept.)

 For that typical family making $50,000, ending that tax break will mean a $1,000 tax increase. So, while the White House likes to claim that its proposals would reduce taxes by $2,200 for that family, the net effect of the two tax changes actually would be a reduction in taxes of $1,200. (Alternatively, if Obama’s plan fails to pass the House of Representatives, that family will see a tax increase of $3,200, not $2,200.)

Indeed, the White House Web site continues to brag that the president last year fought for “middle class tax cuts to prevent a typical working family from losing an average of $40 per paycheck, enabling them to keep about $1,000 of their hard-earned money.” That sentence is referring to the payroll tax cut.

 A White House official argues that a) the debate currently is about income taxes and no one is trying to solve all outstanding tax issues and b) the payroll taxes were always known to be temporary. In contrast, this official argued, the Bush tax cuts — at least for the middle class — were always supported as being permanent, even though Congress did not write the law that way. (Got that?)

However, the White House’s Web site still refers to the previous payroll tax cuts as “tax cuts.”

 Meanwhile, keeping the focus on income taxes also allows the president to avoid talking about another pending payroll tax contained in the health care law — a 0.9 percent Medicare surtax on incomes over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples filing joint returns. (We had missed Obama’s line, referring to Clinton era tax rates, until it was highlighted by our colleague Jennifer Rubin on Wednesday.)

The Bush tax cut set the top income-tax rate at 35 percent, and Obama would restore it to the 39.6 percent rate set during Clinton’s presidency. But while Social Security taxes are capped, there is no cap on Medicare payroll taxes — also legacy of Bill Clinton’s 1993 deficit-reduction deal.

 Currently, the Medicare payroll tax is 2.9 percent, split between employers and employees, but most economists assume some of the employer’s tax payments result in lost wages for the employee. So the health-care surcharge would be on top of that, resulting, as we previously have noted, in a marginal tax rate nearly as high as 45 percent for the wealthy.


----------



## HOGG0494 (Mar 27, 2015)

cost me $3,200 a year($60 a week)


----------



## ScotL (Mar 27, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Yeah the feds just tax road use fuels. If a pellet car comes around then....


http://www.pelheat.com/Wood_Pellet_Car.html


----------



## Bioburner (Mar 27, 2015)

3650 said:


> Stop buying pellets. Watch them scramble to absorb all they inventory


And watch them put them on ships to sail off to China or Europe


----------



## Old Spartan (Mar 27, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> cost me $3,200 a year($60 a week)



The FICA tax change was not a tax increase. The reduction should never have taken place. The FICA tax is a dedicated tax that pays for an entitlement. Social Sewcurity is about the ONLY entitlement that beneficiaries actually pay for.


----------



## john193 (Mar 27, 2015)

Old Spartan said:


> The FICA tax change was not a tax increase. The reduction should never have taken place. The FICA tax is a dedicated tax that pays for an entitlement. Social Sewcurity is about the ONLY entitlement that beneficiaries actually pay for.


I actually liked Paul Ryan's idea to give people control of their SS deduction by turning it into a 401k style system. I don't expect to see a dime out of SS when I'm retired.


----------



## Ambient (Mar 27, 2015)

response to above maybe off topic:
A. SS has been systematically defunded by congress raiding it's coffers. If they would leave it alone it would be sustainable. (same with the USPO)
B. 401K programs were meant to defund/defeat existing retirement programs, brought to you by corporation lobbyists. 
C. 1% of the Country's wealth controls the outcome of your 401K program, stay tuned and watch that be diminished over time. 
D. "Entitlements" is a buzz word, I'm surrounded by entities that get SSI, and also Large corporations and farms that get $$$$$ entitlements. Our farm declined the personal invitation to get a "free" greenhouse.  

E. my personal apologies to anyone's sensibilities

The record number of heating degree days this winter and the increased number of pellet stoves in use, has brought pressure on the pellet market. I'm not hearing about "preseason sales" from anyone, just increased costs.  The offset might be the cost of fossil fuels being so low. The brilliance of that manipulation, brought on by the Saudi's and big oil is undermining alternative energy sources. So, I'm assuming that the market may continue the increases in prices and production, with a correction as the 2015/16 season unfolds. I bought my pellets now....


----------



## moey (Mar 27, 2015)

Lowes around me is $259 a ton. If I wanted to buy them in $50 increments and use a 15 off 50 coupon they could be had for about $4.00 a bag or $200 a ton.


----------



## john193 (Mar 27, 2015)

moey said:


> Lowes around me is $259 a ton. If I wanted to buy them in $50 increments and use a 15 off 50 coupon they could be had for about $4.00 a bag or $200 a ton.


I'd be interested to know if this works because there were a few people on here who said lowes refused coupon use on pellets. But perhaps it was that managers call...


----------



## moey (Mar 27, 2015)

john193 said:


> I'd be interested to know if this works because there were a few people on here who said lowes refused coupon use on pellets. But perhaps it was that managers call...



Buy online pick up in store. Has always worked for me. You usually can even reuse the coupon online again the system does not void it most often. Although some folks have commented that they can not buy online at their store.


----------



## sportbikerider78 (Mar 27, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> You'll hear all kinds of reasons why the price is so high but greed, also called capitalism, is the underlying cause



Lots of factors to consider.

Supply and demand.  2 really cold winters in a row = greater demand. 
No one has extras left over from previous years as well, so there is even more than normal demand as people chew through reserves and order more.

Money inflation.  Our buck is worth less every year.  Prices going up 3-5% is just keeping pace with inflation.

Regulation.  What isn't getting regulated more?   Higher cost for employees,,,higher cost for products. 

I think you would be hard pressed to say that pellet companies are making higher margins every year.  Besides, if they are then more manufacturers would get in the game to make profits.  Then everyone wins because supply increases and prices go down.

I'm switching to wood for a few years to try my hand at that.  Not sure what the final solution would be, but pellets aren't a steal of a deal like they used to be.


----------



## vinny11950 (Mar 27, 2015)

Every year I hear the same thing in Spring and then the prices in the fall are pretty close to the previous year's.

They may actually be better next winter because supply disruptions should be sorted out by then and fracking oil rigs are shutting down thereby opening up more rail space for pellets to be moved around the country.

Supply in Long Island last fall was tight, but then a bunch of pellets showed up in Jan and Feb.


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 27, 2015)

I don't think it's the pellet companies doing the gouging but rather the last one in the line before the consumer.  When you go to one store and they have pellets at 4.98 a bag and the same brand at another store in the same area is 6.25 a bag, that's either gouging or they are a very poor negotiator when it comes to ordering pellets.


----------



## Husky (Mar 27, 2015)

Just got information on early buy of barefoot for $275 a ton and Dry Creek $235 a ton. Not sure if I want to buy this early or wait to see if price decrease in late spring, early summer.


----------



## john193 (Mar 27, 2015)

Husky said:


> Just got information on early buy of barefoot for $275 a ton and Dry Creek $235 a ton. Not sure if I want to buy this early or wait to see if price decrease in late spring, early summer.


That's the price I paid for barefoots last year factoring in delivery. I'd be happy with that in my neighborhood.


----------



## chken (Mar 27, 2015)

Since the US dollar is getting significantly stronger vs the Canadian dollar, I wonder if we'll see any price breaks on Canadian pellets.


----------



## SidecarFlip (Mar 27, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> The Arabs are throwing ordinance so watch out, crude prices are blasting off.


 
Could very well be a straight corn year for usins....lol


----------



## Old Spartan (Mar 27, 2015)

I spent my working life investing by the dollar cost averaging method. Buy so much periodically and the big price fluctuations are "evened" out. Cost me some opportunity profit in up years but mitigated losses in down years.

I am buying my pellets (a two year supply) based on this mode. began a week ago and will purchase another ton next week. One ton per month March through December. Two Pennington, Two Lacrete, and Two Clean Fire. The remaining four will be opportunity buys depending on what is available.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Mar 27, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> I don't think it's the pellet companies doing the gouging but rather the last one in the line before the consumer.  When you go to one store and they have pellets at 4.98 a bag and the same brand at another store in the same area is 6.25 a bag, that's either gouging or they are a very poor negotiator when it comes to ordering pellets.



It's really neither in most cases...
If you are thinking back a ways to those Blazers that you guys talk about for cheap money at Home Depot,
you cannot compare that to the price a pellet dealer has to charge. That was a freak.
They got those and sold them for the set price that was negotiated before the season started.
Smaller dealers/hardware stores etc., have no "negotiating" powers.
The prices can vary between loads..If you have to pay say $300 a ton for something, you can't sell it for $239...
Big Box Stores, and local dealers selling pellets, are two very very different species.......
Decent pellets sold at smaller dealers, cost dealers more than BBS sell their stuff for.
Plain and simple.

It's good that there are options when it comes to buying things, not just pellets.
Some people only think about price, and others just buy the ones they prefer.
Nothing wrong with either preference.

Dan


----------



## HOGG0494 (Mar 28, 2015)

you guys getting a great price on barefoots compared to the hudson valley area.i got 2 quotes on a early buy for barefoots:$340 and $345.okanaga platniums $360 and okie douglas fir $450


----------



## john193 (Mar 28, 2015)

Thats on the high side for sure.  I called my regular dealer for pellets and they are asking 6.25 a bag for country boys (white lightning).  It isn't a very common brand on here but the dealer says they are on par with barefoot (and i've burned them and would agree).  They currently have a 15 bag limit.  They haven't gotten their spring shipment yet so prices are TBD.


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 28, 2015)

john193 said:


> Thats on the high side for sure.  I called my regular dealer for pellets and they are asking 6.25 a bag for country boys (white lightning).  It isn't a very common brand on here but the dealer says they are on par with barefoot (and i've burned them and would agree).  They currently have a 15 bag limit.  They haven't gotten their spring shipment yet so prices are TBD.



Agree with Country Boys being on par with Barefoot.   $6.00 a bag for Barefoot's at a vendor near me, not sure of the ton price.


----------



## moey (Mar 28, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> you guys getting a great price on barefoots compared to the hudson valley area.i got 2 quotes on a early buy for barefoots:$340 and $345.okanaga platniums $360 and okie douglas fir $450



Who buys pellets at this price? Someone must be otherwise the manufacture would be out of business and the dealer would not be selling them. Just befuddles me...


----------



## JustWood (Mar 28, 2015)

moey said:


> Who buys pellets at this price? Someone must be otherwise the manufacture would be out of business and the dealer would not be selling them. Just befuddles me...


You'd be surprised at the # of people who have their oil or gas furnace go down and NOT get it repaired and replace it with a pellet stove. So when prices are high they either have to replace or repair their furnace (BIG $) or bite the bullet on 10 bags of pellets to get them through till spring.


----------



## Husky (Mar 28, 2015)

moey said:


> Who buys pellets at this price? Someone must be otherwise the manufacture would be out of business and the dealer would not be selling them. Just befuddles me...


I agree. I will stop buying when I have to pay anything at $300 a ton. I started questioning my buy this season at $259.


----------



## Jack Morrissey (Mar 28, 2015)

CladMaster said:


> I decided to buy early too, got 5 tons in the driveway ready for 2015/16 season, paid $5.05 per bag and that included the delivery charge.


Nice, but what brand may I ask?


----------



## lagger (Mar 28, 2015)

Old Spartan said:


> The FICA tax change was not a tax increase. The reduction should never have taken place. The FICA tax is a dedicated tax that pays for an entitlement. Social Sewcurity is about the ONLY entitlement that beneficiaries actually pay for.


you also pay for medicare .. making SS and medicare not entitlements technically but more of an insurance policy,


----------



## lagger (Mar 28, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> you guys getting a great price on barefoots compared to the hudson valley area.i got 2 quotes on a early buy for barefoots:$340 and $345.okanaga platniums $360 and okie douglas fir $450


I don't even know where to ask for these in the HV


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> you guys getting a great price on barefoots compared to the hudson valley area.i got 2 quotes on a early buy for barefoots:$340 and $345.okanaga platniums $360 and okie douglas fir $450


That's insane!  Compare your usage costs vs your normal heating system before paying those prices!

http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm

You'd have to be paying $4/gallon for fuel oil feeding an Energy Star rated boiler to even equal those douglas fir pellets AND you'd have a space heater with the pellets.


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

lagger said:


> you also pay for medicare .. making SS and medicare not entitlements technically but more of an insurance policy,


I HATE the word 'ENTITLEMENT' as inferred by the bureaucrats as something that they are GIVING us as a freebie.  We darn well paid for it over our life span and those scumbags p1issed it away on their pork projects.  It's an OBLIGATION, not an entitlement!


----------



## rona (Mar 28, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> I HATE the word 'ENTITLEMENT' as inferred by the bureaucrats as something that they are GIVING us as a freebie.  We darn well paid for it over our life span and those scumbags p1issed it away on their pork projects.  It's an OBLIGATION, not an entitlement!


 You might also chew over the fact that we paid taxes when we paid ino SS and now when we use it we get taxed again. Wonderful country we live in. No wonder the illegals are running here. Something for nothing all right..


----------



## woodmakesheat (Mar 28, 2015)

rona said:


> Something for nothing all right..



How do I get this "something for nothing"?


----------



## Ambient (Mar 28, 2015)

woodmakesheat said:


> How do I get this "something for nothing"?


INCORPORATE


----------



## Old Spartan (Mar 28, 2015)

lagger said:


> you also pay for medicare .. making SS and medicare not entitlements technically but more of an insurance policy,



Yes ! An earned entitlement. One of the few if not only entitlements that the beneficiary actually funds.


----------



## moey (Mar 28, 2015)

I thought this was about pellet prices. My dog just farted...


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)




----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

moey said:


> I thought this was about pellet prices. My dog just farted...


It was.  Can that fart and save it for the new fart stove.


----------



## bogieb (Mar 28, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> That's insane!  Compare your usage costs vs your normal heating system before paying those prices!
> 
> http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm
> 
> You'd have to be paying $4/gallon for fuel oil feeding an Energy Star rated boiler to even equal those douglas fir pellets AND you'd have a space heater with the pellets.



It is $44.55 / million BTU to heat with propane ($3.11/gal for me). I would have to pay $425/ton to get up to what it costs for propane according to BTU's.


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

bogieb said:


> It is $44.55 / million BTU to heat with propane ($3.11/gal for me). I would have to pay $425/ton to get up to what it costs for propane according to BTU's.


Yea, propane is crazy!  I don't envy you at all.  Usually, when you're on propane, you have no alternatives except maybe geothermal HP, which is super expensive unless you can do the trenching yourself.


----------



## kappel15 (Mar 28, 2015)

woodmakesheat said:


> OK, your religious, err, political views are crystal clear here. Off to ignore.


Bye


----------



## bogieb (Mar 28, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> Yea, propane is crazy!  I don't envy you at all.  Usually, when you're on propane, you have no alternatives except maybe geothermal HP, which is super expensive unless you can do the trenching yourself.



One alternative I have is to replace boiler and hot water heater for oil systems (had that, been hostage to high prices there too). Of course the cost for the new equipment, new tank, and running the new lines would be more than what I bought the Harman for. And even then, at today's price in my town, I would be paying $2 more per million BTU than I currently pay for pellets.

Then I could always put in electric. Only thing attractive about that is I could get rid of all the FHW pipes. But at some of the highest kw/hr costs in the nation (oh look, $61.55/million btu - can you say equal to $700/ton of pellets?), no thanks.

I'm liking the pellet alternative. Of course when I'm 80, it may not still be so attractive to me; trying to stack and move all those bags.


----------



## Pellet-King (Mar 28, 2015)

Bioburner said:


> I think several have already gotten a delivery of fossil fuels because of the high cost of pellets. Was a report of fuel oil at $2.06
> Crude went over $51 this AM


Crude dropped $3.08 Friday, now $48, there's talk of going real low this summer, i'm going to get every oil tank i can find, fill my cellar up with oil tanks, i'm gunna be oil tank man!!, within 20 yr's heating oil will be dirt cheap as everyone by then wil have switched over to NG


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

bogieb said:


> One alternative I have is to replace boiler and hot water heater for oil systems (had that, been hostage to high prices there too). Of course the cost for the new equipment, new tank, and running the new lines would be more than what I bought the Harman for. And even then, at today's price in my town, I would be paying $2 more per million BTU than I currently pay for pellets.
> 
> Then I could always put in electric. Only thing attractive about that is I could get rid of all the FHW pipes. But at some of the highest kw/hr costs in the nation (oh look, $61.55/million btu - can you say equal to $700/ton of pellets?), no thanks.
> 
> I'm liking the pellet alternative. Of course when I'm 80, it may not still be so attractive to me; trying to stack and move all those bags.


The ONLY two heat pump alternatives for you way up there would be the geothermal, which I already spoke of, and the new super high efficiency ductless mini-split HP's, which can put out full rated heat down to 5 degrees.  THEN you can turn on the Harman.  Since there's no ductwork, no heat is lost there either.  AND they are very simple to install and each zone has its own control.


----------



## Pellet-King (Mar 28, 2015)

How can mini split's work if you close a door off to a room?, might be fine in a living/dining/kitchen, but bedrooms?
*You live in Georgia, the winter last's 4-6 weeks and you've been mowing your grass for a month now.*


----------



## tjnamtiw (Mar 28, 2015)

Pellet-King said:


> How can mini split's work if you close a door off to a room?, might be fine in a living/dining/kitchen, but bedrooms?
> *You live in Georgia, the winter last's 4-6 weeks and you've been mowing your grass for a month now.*


hahaha.  You have the same misconception that I had about Georgia when I moved here!  Tonight it's going down to 27.  The high here was 42.  I just mowed the WEEDS for the first time.  Nothing grows in Georgia clay except weeds.  It's also impossible to get the color out of your clothes.  
As for mini-splits, there's no 'return' air so each room with a unit can be isolated.  You could actually (why, I don't know unless your mother-in-law lives with you) have the AC on in one room and heat on in another!  Another savings advantage is that you can shut down units in rooms not used or keep them at lower/higher temps depending on the season.  Some will even sense if you are still in the room and set the temp back if you leave.  Pretty amazing stuff.


----------



## JRA (Mar 28, 2015)

HOGG0494 said:


> you guys getting a great price on barefoots compared to the hudson valley area.i got 2 quotes on a early buy for barefoots:$340 and $345.okanaga platniums $360 and okie douglas fir $450


I thought mass was bad 360 for dfs. For 450 a ton I would rather wear a sweatshirt and use extra blankets!


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 28, 2015)

lagger said:


> you also pay for medicare .. making SS and medicare not entitlements technically but more of an insurance policy,



Not really.  Although designed to be that, the incessant voter registration drive cloaked in trying to help the needy has more and more people collecting benefits from these programs without ever having paid a dime into them.


----------



## CladMaster (Mar 28, 2015)

Jack Morrissey said:


> Nice, but what brand may I ask?



See my sig below !


----------



## Husky (Mar 28, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> Not really.  Although designed to be that, the incessant voter registration drive cloaked in trying to help the needy has more and more people collecting benefits from these programs without ever having paid a dime into them.


 What does all this have to do with pellet prices going up. Please don't hi jack a post for your political views, this is not the place.


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 28, 2015)

Nothing political about it.  Just basic mathematics about a Ponzi scheme. just correcting an error in another post.  You don't have to thank me.


----------



## Husky (Mar 28, 2015)

Peterfield said:


> Nothing political about it.  Just basic mathematics about a Ponzi scheme. just correcting an error in another post.  You don't have to thank me.


 Stay on topic please. Don't encourage others.


----------



## Peterfield (Mar 28, 2015)

Fair enough.  It is a great forum, one of the best out there.


----------



## bbfarm (Mar 28, 2015)

We just got a ton today. He gave us early buy price of $220. $5 less than last year


----------



## CladMaster (Mar 28, 2015)

(Gone to get the beer and popcorn, will be back to watch this thread get closed soon )


----------



## Husky (Mar 28, 2015)

tjnamtiw said:


> spoken like a 'moderator-wannabe'


 No just someone who gets sick of getting emails letting me know a new post was posted on a topic I am interested in to find out it has nothing to do with original post. Just like this one!


----------



## boo boo (Mar 28, 2015)

CladMaster said:


> (Gone to get the beer and popcorn, will be back to watch this thread get closed soon )


It will have that little lock symbol next to t by then


----------



## Bioburner (Mar 28, 2015)

bbfarm said:


> We just got a ton today. He gave us early buy price of $220. $5 less than last year


For the Rib Mountain? If the 1 ton wasn't down would have ran to Menards and got a couple tons for close to $200/T
Hopefully get thread back to pellets, if not will shut down


----------

