# Statistics on PV install cost ( $/watt) in different markets?



## Slow1 (Apr 9, 2014)

I'm considering expanding my array and have received two very different proposals.  I will not be eligible for additional state/local rebates for this array so that makes it all the more important for me to get the cost down as much as possible.

I've googled for the going rates for installations in my area/state but have not been able to find anything current on this.  Does anyone have any information here?

What I've been quoted so far runs from $4.38 to $5.60 per DC Watt (panel array rating) fully installed.

Any info greatly appreciated.


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## DBoon (Apr 9, 2014)

$5/watt is a pretty good estimate in New York State, before incentives.  If you use a ground-mount and US-made panels, you'll pay about $6/watt.


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## Slow1 (Apr 10, 2014)

This is pre-incentive and roof mounted.  Important details 

Interesting also is that it seems that to have automatic monitoring (having SREC #'s reported without manual intervention) adds about $800 to the cost.  I'm perfectly happy to keep reporting my numbers manually (visit the solar production meter at end of each month and type into web site).


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## DBoon (Apr 12, 2014)

Hi Slow1, to clarify, the number I reported above were pre-incentive.


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## Slow1 (Apr 13, 2014)

Well, I'm waiting for a couple more bids, but the best one right now from a company I trust (they did my first array) is 4.52/w.   I googled a bit more and found a site that listed installers and "average" cost/watt of installs, but didn't give a timeframe for that average.  On the bright side they act as a referrer and I was able to find a couple of additional candidate companies.  I'll end up with 4 bids by time this phase is done and will then be able to move on to comparing them.


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## AK13 (Apr 13, 2014)

I should have numbers for you this week. I've got a solar company coming on Wednesday. Can't wait. Their ballpark pre-incentive budget price was $18k for a 5kw system. That would be $3.60/watt. Sounds like I might be in for a rude awakening when they price it up for real.


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## CaptSpiff (Apr 14, 2014)

AK13 said:


> ... Their ballpark pre-incentive budget price was $18k for a 5kw system. That would be $3.60/watt. Sounds like I might be in for a rude awakening when they price it up for real.



Wow, a buddy spent about $79K on a 10 Kw roof mounted system a little over 5 years ago. Fed, state and local incentives brought that down to just under $50K. But by your numbers the prices are continuing to come down. No wonder there's talk of scaling back the local portion of the incentive program. Keep us informed as your quotes get settled.


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## jebatty (Apr 15, 2014)

In case you missed it:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/solar-electric-6-5-kw-system.116031/page-4#post-1654839


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## mole (Apr 16, 2014)

Prices have dropped a lot in the last couple of years.   My system, installed last June, was  $26,250 for an 8.65kw 2-array system. It's  24-250w panels on the garage roof on one inverter, plus 9-295W  panels on a barn roof on a smaller inverter.  That's   $3.03/w gross. New York State has the NYSRDA rebate which maxes out at $10,500,  leaving $15,750 before 25% NYS ($3,937)and 30% Federal ($4,725)rebates.  I just got the federal and state tax rebates, so the cost to me willout of pocket will be $7,088 (as long as I pay off the "12 month same as cash" loan before it detonates).  So the bottom line was $7,088/8.65kw =  $0.819/w after all the rebates. The break even point is about 6-1/2 yrs, not including the opportunity cost on the $7K. But still, it seemed like a reasonable pay back period.


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## AK13 (Apr 16, 2014)

mole said:


> Prices have dropped a lot in the last couple of years.   My system, installed last June, was  $26,250 for an 8.65kw 2-array system. It's  24-250w panels on the garage roof on one inverter, plus 9-295W  panels on a barn roof on a smaller inverter.  That's   $3.03/w gross. New York State has the NYSRDA rebate which maxes out at $10,500,  leaving $15,750 before 25% NYS ($3,937)and 30% Federal ($4,725)rebates.  I just got the federal and state tax rebates, so the cost to me willout of pocket will be $7,088 (as long as I pay off the "12 month same as cash" loan before it detonates).  So the bottom line was $7,088/8.65kw =  $0.819/w after all the rebates. The break even point is about 6-1/2 yrs, not including the opportunity cost on the $7K. But still, it seemed like a reasonable pay back period.



Wow, I wish that NH had those rebates! But I'm not complaining about the $3750 that we have available. Could be worse.

It looks like the break even point might be even less than that depending on how much you pay for electricity and what they projected for your array.


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## mole (Apr 16, 2014)

AK13 said:


> Wow, I wish that NH had those rebates! But I'm not complaining about the $3750 that we have available. Could be worse.
> 
> It looks like the break even point might be even less than that depending on how much you pay for electricity and what they projected for your array.


Yeah, New York has some big incentives.


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## Where2 (Apr 16, 2014)

mole said:


> Yeah, New York has some big incentives.


Ironically, the "Sunshine State" (FL) has *no* statewide incentives. My power company throws a token $2/W incentive out every 6 months, but the waiting list fills up in under 3 minutes from the time it opens.


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## AK13 (Apr 20, 2014)

Okay, got my quote. $3.28/watt pre-incentive. $1.68/watt after incentives. This is for a 6kw system. Roof mounted, all in installed costs.


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## CaptSpiff (Apr 21, 2014)

AK13 said:


> Okay, got my quote. $3.28/watt pre-incentive. $1.68/watt after incentives. This is for a 6kw system. Roof mounted, all in installed costs.



Wow, ... smoke em if you got em! That's a great "after all incentive" cost. What is your expected annual production vs past annual usage?

By the way, don't brag to other "solar early adopters" about your $1.68/watt final install. I mentioned your numbers to my co-worker who had a 10kW system installed at about $4.80/watt after all incentives only 5 years ago. He was pissed that the costs have dropped so much. 

I wonder if the continuing decline in cost is keeping many people from jumping in the PV pool? 
I know I personally never adopt early technology because of the cost premium/penalty.


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2014)

That is a great incentive. We paid closer to what your co-worker paid a couple years ago, but we have no reason to get pissed, we have an extra 2 yrs of solar power generation rebates over the newly installed units. WA state has a very generous rebate program. In addition to $.10/net metering we get an annual credit of $.54/KWh generated over the year, tax free.


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## AK13 (Apr 21, 2014)

CaptSpiff said:


> What is your expected annual production vs past annual usage?



Last year we used about 4750 kwh. This system is projected to do about 6300 kwh. However I currently heat my HW with propane and plan to switch to a heat pump or electric type water heater so I probably won't be net zero after that. However, my hope is that we can find a little more efficiency around the house so that we can heat HW and stay net zero. It might be doable if we scale back on A/C a bit in the summer (tough since I work from home in an upstairs office) and if we use less supplemental space heaters in the winter.


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## AK13 (Apr 21, 2014)

begreen said:


> In addition to $.10/net metering we get an annual credit of $.54/KWh generated over the year, tax free.



That $0.54/kwh is a one time deal right? And what is the $0.10? Is that an every year premium that you get for every kwh that you generate or only for your surplus?


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## peakbagger (Apr 21, 2014)

I dont know how close you are to Rhode Island but this thread on another forum may be of interest

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?14717-Solar-install-in-RI&p=106385#post106385

And yes its the same peakbagger


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## AK13 (Apr 21, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> I dont know how close you are to Rhode Island but this thread on another forum may be of interest
> 
> http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?14717-Solar-install-in-RI&p=106385#post106385
> 
> And yes its the same peakbagger



Thank you. RI is 2.5 hours or so from where I am. This person is paying $3.60/watt after negotiating with the same panels and same sized system and I am at $3.28 so that looks good. The only difference is that my price is based on a string inverter and this person is using micro-inverters. 

I can't decide whether I should bother getting some other quotes before moving forward.


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## peakbagger (Apr 21, 2014)

Most folks report that string inverters cost less per watt than micro-inverters, that is probably the major difference. Not sure if you are aware of the SMA string inverters with emergency backup power (secure power supply), they may be a nice fit and have dual MPPT inputs. Put in two 3Kw units and you have two standby power circuits and 4 MPPT inputs plus plenty of headroom.

http://www.altestore.com/store/Inve...000TL-US-transformerless-3kw-Inverter/p10870/


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2014)

AK13 said:


> That $0.54/kwh is a one time deal right? And what is the $0.10? Is that an every year premium that you get for every kwh that you generate or only for your surplus?



No, $.54/KWh generated is an annual rebate until at least 2020. The $.10/KWh generated by the panels comes off the monthly bill as a credit for power produced.


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## CaptSpiff (Apr 21, 2014)

begreen said:


> No, $.54/KWh generated is an annual rebate until at least 2020. The $.10/KWh generated by the panels comes off the monthly bill as a credit for power produced.


Is that in place of Net Metering?


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2014)

In the meantime, things just got darker in Oklahoma:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-electric...r-solar-wind-energy-producers/article/4083525


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2014)

CaptSpiff said:


> Is that in place of Net Metering?


Yes and no. You are credited on your monthly bill for $.10/KWh generated net metered power.


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## AK13 (Apr 22, 2014)

peakbagger said:


> Most folks report that string inverters cost less per watt than micro-inverters, that is probably the major difference. Not sure if you are aware of the SMA string inverters with emergency backup power (secure power supply), they may be a nice fit and have dual MPPT inputs. Put in two 3Kw units and you have two standby power circuits and 4 MPPT inputs plus plenty of headroom.
> 
> http://www.altestore.com/store/Inve...000TL-US-transformerless-3kw-Inverter/p10870/



Thank you. I was quoted a single SMA Sunny Boy 5000. Now that I look at it that seems a bit small since I'm going to have 6000 watts of connected panels. It looks like maybe I should look into the cost and advantages of two smaller inverters. The rep did mention that the dual MPPT circuits are an advantage. So 4 inputs must be slightly better than two. 

I will have the standby circuit, but it sounds like the benefits of that are pretty limited. And the current plan is for the inverter to be outside of my main house in an outbuilding. But I suppose the outlet could be wired back inside to my house. I have a small generator to run the essentials anyway.


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## AK13 (Apr 22, 2014)

Slow1 said:


> Well, I'm waiting for a couple more bids, but the best one right now from a company I trust (they did my first array) is 4.52/w.   I googled a bit more and found a site that listed installers and "average" cost/watt of installs, but didn't give a timeframe for that average.  On the bright side they act as a referrer and I was able to find a couple of additional candidate companies.  I'll end up with 4 bids by time this phase is done and will then be able to move on to comparing them.



What size is your new array? I'm assuming that there is some economy of scale that would effect the price per watt. I can't decide whether to pursue more bids. It seems like I should before spending $20k+. But on the other hand it appears that the quote that I got is very competitive on a $/watt. I don't know if I've seen lower than $3.28/watt installed (pre-incentive). 

Also, are you going micro-inverter or string inverter? String inverters appear to be cheaper and I think that I like that approach better if you aren't dealing with shading.


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## Slow1 (Apr 22, 2014)

I'm getting quotes for micro-inverters.  The most recent one that I have received is for:

14 SolarWorld 270w panels (3780kw dc total)
Enphase micro inverters

$15,565 pre-incentive cost or $4.11/w

This was the last of "round 1" quotes.  I'm debating on whether to continue now or wait.  I've divorced my hot water connection decision from the solar (going to go forward with it I believe) so perhaps better off waiting.


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## AK13 (Apr 22, 2014)

I don't think I understand your "round 1", vs. "round 2" quotes. Is round 2 where you go back and try to get them to bid against each other?

Is your array going to be roof mounted?


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## Slow1 (Apr 22, 2014)

AK13 said:


> I don't think I understand your "round 1", vs. "round 2" quotes. Is round 2 where you go back and try to get them to bid against each other?
> 
> Is your array going to be roof mounted?



yes and yes   I had 4 companies look at my roof and make recommendations etc.  Gave them all the same parameters essentially: Maximize the capacity for space balanced with lowest cost/watt.  Each came back with their quote/bid.

Next step is to ask each if they can do better then tell each the best cost/watt I've been quoted and see who is able to beat that.  By that time I should be settled on the capacity and any brand/module restrictions I hop.

Open to suggestions on how to proceed to get best value.


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## AK13 (Apr 22, 2014)

Slow1 said:


> Open to suggestions on how to proceed to get best value.



Well, you are ahead of me so I don't think that I have any great advice. But with an expensive purchase I would remember that value doesn't necessarily mean lowest cost. Saving $500 or $1k but having the installer cut corners might not be the best value. In my case I want to stick with a company who does everything in house with no subs. And I want a company that will be around in 5 years if I have any issues. 

At this point I'm pretty confident with the company who gave me my quote. They are local and seem like they'll do a good job. They use all licensed electricians for the installation. I'd like to get one or two more just to make sure I am getting a good price, but only if I can find equally reputable companies. 

It is amazing how many different companies are offering solar panels. The choices are quite overwhelming. I was interested in maximizing my output by going with 300 watt panels, but I was told that it wasn't going to be as cost effective as the 255 or 260 watt panels.


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## Slow1 (Apr 22, 2014)

AK13 said:


> Well, you are ahead of me so I don't think that I have any great advice. But with an expensive purchase I would remember that value doesn't necessarily mean lowest cost. Saving $500 or $1k but having the installer cut corners might not be the best value. In my case I want to stick with a company who does everything in house with no subs. And I want a company that will be around in 5 years if I have any issues.
> 
> At this point I'm pretty confident with the company who gave me my quote. They are local and seem like they'll do a good job. They use all licensed electricians for the installation. I'd like to get one or two more just to make sure I am getting a good price, but only if I can find equally reputable companies.
> 
> It is amazing how many different companies are offering solar panels. The choices are quite overwhelming. I was interested in maximizing my output by going with 300 watt panels, but I was told that it wasn't going to be as cost effective as the 255 or 260 watt panels.



Agree - I only selected companies to bid that I feel comfortable doing the work.  Differences in panels exist I'm sure but I'm not sure how much real difference there is between say CanadianSolar (which are actually made in China) and SolarWorld panels which I believe are made in USA.  (Leaving patriotic discussions aside).  That is part of why I desire to normalize the final bids on a given configuration.  

What has surprised me here is how different the costs are from one state to the next - I can only assume that availability of rebates is impacting the top line costs... or is it really more expensive to install an array in MA than NH or NY?


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