# Concerns of submerged stove



## mywaynow (Sep 6, 2011)

Having had the misfortune of being the recipient of a backhand slap from Irene, I am now facing up to some of the damaged items.  One of which is my VC Defiant stove.  It was submerged entirely for a few hours, not more than 5.  Beyond the rust that is everywhere, I am seeing the newly installed seals falling off the doors.  Is there anything else that may be an issue for repair/maint. that I need to consider?


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## PARKBOY (Sep 6, 2011)

mywaynow said:
			
		

> Having had the misfortune of being the recipient of a backhand slap from Irene, I am now facing up to some of the damaged items.  One of which is my VC Defiant stove.  It was submerged entirely for a few hours, not more than 5.  Beyond the rust that is everywhere, I am seeing the newly installed seals falling off the doors.  Is there anything else that may be an issue for repair/maint. that I need to consider?



Im sure you will get some good advice here but you may want to also call the manufacturer and see what they have to say. Sorry for your loss and good luck to you.


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## mhrischuk (Sep 6, 2011)

mywaynow said:
			
		

> Having had the misfortune of being the recipient of a backhand slap from Irene, I am now facing up to some of the damaged items.  One of which is my VC Defiant stove.  It was submerged entirely for a few hours, not more than 5.  Beyond the rust that is everywhere, I am seeing the newly installed seals falling off the doors.  Is there anything else that may be an issue for repair/maint. that I need to consider?



Was it a flood or a basement water issue? Have you checked if it's covered by homeowners?


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## mywaynow (Sep 6, 2011)

Water categorization is up in the air.  I have no creeks or water bodies to rise around me, and there was no property wide water buildup.  As of today, I have not heard from an adjuster yet.  Not drinking our water and just waiting now that most of the damaged stuff is removed.  8 days of 15 hours/day to get me to that point.  One of the worst weeks of my life for sure.


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## Jags (Sep 6, 2011)

Myway - you may want to look into the insurance side for the stove...that said...

Seals, paint, external debris entering the stove...you know, the obvious stuff.

Also, you will want start this stove with a very small fire.  Somewhat like breaking in a new stove.  The first fire should be with the intent of gently drying this stove out.  The second, a bit more intense and so on.

I can't imagine that water would cause any physical harm to the stove, as long as you can get it 100% dried back out before you build a box full-o-flame.  Just make sure you give it a darn good inspection and repair the seals, etc.

Lightly sand the whole box - remove ALL rust down to CLEAN, BARE metal and repaint with stove paint.  You should be good to go.


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## DexterDay (Sep 6, 2011)

mywaynow said:
			
		

> Water categorization is up in the air.  I have no creeks or water bodies to rise around me, and there was no property wide water buildup.  As of today, I have not heard from an adjuster yet.  Not drinking our water and just waiting now that most of the damaged stuff is removed.  8 days of 15 hours/day to get me to that point.  One of the worst weeks of my life for sure.



Sorry to hear about the damage. Lots of people need a lot of help. was a devastating blow to our Northeast.

Hope everything works out for You and your Family/Friends.


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## pen (Sep 6, 2011)

If the insurance company can't replace it it can be repaired!

If you have to rebuild it I'd dry that bad boy out w/ a dehumidifier blower it's dry air into it.  Once dry, I'd be spraying the entire thing down (inside and out) with PB Blaster.  It disolves rust and will buy you some time / make it easier to take the stove apart when you get a chance.

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune.

pen


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## My Oslo heats my home (Sep 6, 2011)

I would agree with most of the responses here. Since the stove was only in water for under 5 hrs I cannot see there being any real damage coming to the stove except seals and maybe some cement replacement. Of course the exterior will need some attention, I wouldn't wait too long on that either, the sooner the better on any exterior rust. Once you get the seals and cement replaced I would get right into a small fire to get that metal dry. 
I'd be curious what the stove manufacturers recommendations on your situation would be.


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## Jags (Sep 6, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> Once dry, I'd be spraying the entire thing down (inside and out) with PB Blaster.  It disolves rust and will buy you some time / make it easier to take the stove apart when you get a chance.



Good idea on the maintenance side, but be VERY aware that any surface that you wish to paint will need to be completely clean of the stuff, or paint ain't gonna stick.


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## begreen (Sep 6, 2011)

Besides the obvious surface rust, my concern would be water trapped in the secondary passages. This can cause some serious rust scaling that will later lead to blockage. Dis-assembly would be the best way to be sure that these passages are clear and dry. But in lieu of that, at least blast some compressed air through the secondary ports (inside and outside) and keep the stove in a dehumidified space with a fan blowing into the firebox for a few days.


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## pen (Sep 6, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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PB blaster is much easier to clean before paint than WD-40 which is why I recommend it.  

pen


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## Jags (Sep 6, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

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I would recommend a nice buffing with paint thinner directly before painting.


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## DanCorcoran (Sep 6, 2011)

You probably already know this, but the reason for the slow, cooler fires is that the metal parts expand and contract with heating and cooling.  If two pieces that normally would slide past each other are rusted together, the slow fires give the rust a chance to break up slowly, rather than cracking or bending the metal.


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## Jags (Sep 6, 2011)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> You probably already know this, but the reason for the slow, cooler fires is that the metal parts expand and contract with heating and cooling.  If two pieces that normally would slide past each other are rusted together, the slow fires give the rust a chance to break up slowly, rather than cracking or bending the metal.



Very true as well as allow any moisture that may have been absorbed by the fire brick to evaporate slowly instead of a small explosion (vaporization pressure).


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## Hass (Sep 6, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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including the metal itself...
Metal holds quite a bit of water for those who don't know.

Not sure how much it would soak up in 5 hours or if it would even matter, but steel definitely absorbs water.


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## pen (Sep 6, 2011)

I've found the real issue is if wet ashes are left in a stove.  They hold the moisture for a long, long time.  Getting wet isn't the issue, staying wet it.  It takes time to do damage.

pen


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## My Oslo heats my home (Sep 7, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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Good point, I remember seeing a post not too long ago of a fella with a new stove and some early brick damage on a startup fire. Moisture content in the brick most likely.


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## mywaynow (Sep 7, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> I've found the real issue is if wet ashes are left in a stove.  They hold the moisture for a long, long time.  Getting wet isn't the issue, staying wet it.  It takes time to do damage.
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I had the foresight to clean out the ashes on the second day.  It was just mud.  My only concern there is that there could be some fine stuff still lurking in the upper areas.  My intention for the stove was to rebuild it (cracked fireback) in August/September, before the season will begin.  However, having lost over a week to cleaning up the mess, and at a time when I am usually busy with work (pre- opening of schools), I doubt I will have the time to dedicate to that task.  Ticks me off that I spent the time and money replacing the door seals, just to see them fall off the doors.  

Still waiting for the adjuster to call..............


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## pen (Sep 7, 2011)

If you don't have a dehumidifier handy I'd have the doors open on that thing and a small oscillating fan aimed in the mouth of it running for a few days while you wait.

pen


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## mywaynow (Sep 7, 2011)

Dehumidifier is running, and I am going to open the doors right now.  Thanks for the tip.


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## mywaynow (Sep 7, 2011)

OK, all together, say it with me......F**K  Just broke the new handle assembly truing to get the side door open.  I give up.  Just too much going on here to accomplish anything productive.


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## Ken S (Sep 7, 2011)

Instead of dealing with the insurance company directly you may want to hire a public adjuster,basically they represent you and know all the tricks the insurance company will pull and have some of there own.Well worth the cost.Good luck with the stove


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## begreen (Sep 7, 2011)

Hopefully you will get a good adjustment and enough money to get a new stove.


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## madrone (Sep 7, 2011)

Hass said:
			
		

> Not sure how much it would soak up in 5 hours or if it would even matter, but steel definitely absorbs water.



This is one of the craziest things I've ever heard. Ever. 
I've worked with steel for 16 years. Steel does not absorb water. Water may cling to the surface, but you could remove that surface moisture with a hair dryer.

As to dealing with the rust, personally, I'd put a wire brush on a cordless drill and hit all the surfaces you'll be painting, then wipe it down with either mineral spirits or denatured alcohol. (Denat. alcohol also removes surface moisture.) 

I'm wracking my brain trying to think of how submerging a stove would ruin it, and I can't think of one. It's all reversible. Hang in there, man.


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## mhrischuk (Sep 7, 2011)

It certainly is all reversible but take your time and make sure the firebox seals do not get affected. I am only speculating here but my concern would be if the seals retain moisture for a long time than corrosion over the long term wood be a factor. If it was mine I would clean it up real good, get some major air circulation going around and in it for a good long time. Fix the door seals and then burn a lot of small warming fires.... never getting too hot to touch. The purpose is to do a deep dry out without boiling the moisture out. Then I would clean it up and paint it.

Once you begin the hotter fires, keep an eye out for control problems. If she wants to burn like the devil you may have some leaks but I doubt you will. You can find the leaks with smoke from incense. Just hold the burning incense close to the stove and move it all around during a fire looking for it to get drawn in.  

Steel doesn't absorb moisture but, not that this matters to you.... it will absorb certain things like propane gas. Used propane gas cylinders outgas propane for a time after.


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## Battenkiller (Sep 7, 2011)

Stove cement is based on sodium silicate.  Once that has thoroughly dried, it is relatively waterproof, so I doubt any long-term damage has been done.  If it was my stove (they are cast iron, not steel BTW), I would immediately start warming it from the inside with _very_ small kindling fires.  This will help with the rust on the inside.  It will also help with drying the interior of the home.  Even if you have to keep all the windows open, using the stove will dramatically lower the relative humidity inside the living space and dry it out much faster... hopefully, before mold can take over everything.

However, if you really were planning on doing a complete rebuild, why not do it now?  That way you can clean and inspect every part of the stove and put it back together airtight.  It will burn more controlled than it did last year, guaranteed.  If you just replace the gaskets and the stove won't burn in a controlled manner at all, you will have to take it all apart anyway.

Where in the Northeast do you live?  I am in upstate NY.  If you aren't too far away from Saratoga Springs, I wouldn't mind coming over and helping with the rebuild.  Sounds like you had groundwater seepage coming in through the walls?  I had that bad, and would be in the same predicament if I wasn't pumping it out for two days.  As it was, there was a time where it was coming in faster than it was getting pumped out, and I was wishing I had two pumps and praying to several gods that the power wouldn't go out.  Man, that was a _lot_ of rain!


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## begreen (Sep 7, 2011)

Mold is a big concern with flooded basements. My BIL deferred on this, thinking it would dry out and they ended up with a serious mold issue inside the walls. Definitely plan on tearing out all drywall to at least 1 ft above the waterline.

moved post to the classic stove forum for more focused answers about the Defiant 1A.


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## mywaynow (Sep 8, 2011)

I spent 8 days at 12-15 hours a day removing crap, cleaning and cutting away sheetrock.  48 lawn/leaf bags were used to remove my stuff.  It is good down here now (I am in the basement as the only connection to the net is hardwire; toasted the wireless router in the water), no smell of mold.  We went through 15 gallons of bleach in the clean up.  Two gallons went down the well since it was taking water from the basement.  My gun safe was under water, and now the walnut stocks are cracking/swelling.  Don't even know if I will be able to burn before mid-October.  I have a ton of catching up to do, and once I have an idea of what may or may not be covered, I have tons of work to do down here.  Much of the contents that survived are in a tent on the patio, or in my garage where the Camaro used to be.  She is parked at my parents, just down the road.


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 8, 2011)

LEe just gave our area another backslap.  Schoharie County is flooded again.  I didn't think I'd be able to get home today.  Of the 5 ways I knew out, 4 were closed and I took a chance on the one that brought me out through BFE.  I drove on roads I shouldn't have, but got out and was able to pick the little one up at daycare.  

Matt


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## begreen (Sep 8, 2011)

This has been a soggy year for NYS. Good year to own a kayak. I hope this storm is the last you see for awhile.


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## EatenByLimestone (Sep 8, 2011)

I hope its a mild winter.  Some of those counties don't have any money left for snow removal.    

Matt


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## Dune (Sep 8, 2011)

Hass said:
			
		

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Metal Absorbs Water?


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## Jags (Sep 8, 2011)

Dune said:
			
		

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How would steel hull ships work???


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## daveswoodhauler (Sep 8, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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Must be why subs can dive....they get too wet 
Must take a lot of dehumidifiers to get the sub back to the surface 

On a practical note, I think your best bet is to go with fans/dehumidifiers, and perhaps start a very small fire as other posters have indicated.
Very sorry for your loss and all the damage.


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