# Suggested Truck/Engine Options?



## DouglasB12 (Feb 6, 2020)

I'm beginning to do my research on getting a newer used truck. I'm primarily interested in getting a Chevy 1500. I have been keeping an eye on the 2016 models.  In a couple years when I'm ready to buy, they should be dropping down into my price range. It will be used almost exclusively for hauling - typically with a trailer. If I'm hauling wood, the trailer weights will top out usually around 7-8,000 pounds.  I'm also looking at getting a toy hauler travel trailer that will top out between 10-11,000 pounds.

The truck will definitely need to have the "Max Towing Package" (NHT). My biggest question is which engine I should get. Most trucks available have the 5.3L engine which appears to have a max towing capacity of 11,000 pounds.  The same truck configuration with the 6.2L engine bumps towing capacity up to 12,000 pounds. Either engine should have the ability to tow what I plan on pulling. The 6.2L would likely get worse gas mileage while not towing, however, it probably also would not lug down as much while towing a load, so would the mpg be better than the 5.3L? With a 10,000 pound load, how different would the acceleration times be?

Any other suggested options or features that I should look to include or avoid?


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## zrock (Feb 6, 2020)

The 6.2 is a fuel pig and thats why you really dont see alot out their..  Personally i would be stepping up to a 2500 or 3500 and stepping into a diesel if you want to use it for hauling.. Better fuel and power and it will be able to haul what ever you throw at it...


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## stee6043 (Feb 6, 2020)

zrock said:


> The 6.2 is a fuel pig and thats why you really dont see alot out their..  Personally i would be stepping up to a 2500 or 3500 and stepping into a diesel if you want to use it for hauling.. Better fuel and power and it will be able to haul what ever you throw at it...



My 2011 GMC 6.2L ran consistent 14/15 mpg city.  My 2019 6.2L runs 19+ mpg city.  You might be amazed by the economy of the newer engines with all the new fangled tech...like auto start/stop.


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## DouglasB12 (Feb 6, 2020)

zrock said:


> ....Personally i would be stepping up to a 2500 or 3500 and stepping into a diesel if you want to use it for hauling.. Better fuel and power and it will be able to haul what ever you throw at it...


If I was understanding the engine options right, a 6.2L Max Towing 1500 actually tows more than a 2500 - at least until you start stepping up into the bigger more expensive engines in the 2500 series. Then it's back to the lousy gas mileage anyway.


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## DouglasB12 (Feb 6, 2020)

stee6043 said:


> My 2011 GMC 6.2L ran consistent 14/15 mpg city.  My 2019 6.2L runs 19+ mpg city.  You might be amazed by the economy of the newer engines with all the new fangled tech...like auto start/stop.


 I was looking at the MPG estimates and like you, I was really impressed with the mileage the more recent 1500's are getting. They actually aren't far below what my Kia Sorento gets (about 24-25 mpg).  Of course, the economy will drop when towing though.


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## Gearhead660 (Feb 6, 2020)

If you are doing occasional towing,  a 1500 with 5.3L should do fine.  Towing with any gas engine will bring MPG down.  If doing frequent towing, go with a 2500.  Had many trucks over the years.  I personally will not buy a 1500 again due to the amount of towing I do.


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## bholler (Feb 6, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> If I was understanding the engine options right, a 6.2L Max Towing 1500 actually tows more than a 2500 - at least until you start stepping up into the bigger more expensive engines in the 2500 series. Then it's back to the lousy gas mileage anyway.


There is a whole lot more to being able to tow safely than engine power.  A 2500 with it's heavier suspension axles tires and brakes will be able to handle the weight much better especially if something ever goes wrong when towing.


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## stee6043 (Feb 6, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> I was looking at the MPG estimates and like you, I was really impressed with the mileage the more recent 1500's are getting. They actually aren't far below what my Kia Sorento gets (about 24-25 mpg).  Of course, the economy will drop when towing though.



Until my current truck I don't think I've ever owned a vehicle that met/beat the window sticker for fuel mileage.  I have 5,000miles on this 2019 and am exceedingly pleased.

I'm getting better fuel mileage in my 6.2L GMC Sierra 1500 than my wife gets in her 2014 GMC Acadia which, I believe, is a 3.6L.  It blows my mind.  The only downside is that the 6.2's require premium gas.  This wasn't a shock for me since my 2011 also required premium.

All bets on mileage are off on the highway, though.  The snouts on these newer trucks really murder the highway mileage above 65.  Even with the shutters in front of the radiators they really suck...


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## brenndatomu (Feb 6, 2020)

No way I'd tow that much with a half ton...no matter if its "rated" for it or not...they exaggerate the tow capacity's.
Thats a pretty good jag even with a 3/4 or 1 ton!
Having bought a half ton to save fuel, I found out the hard way that's its just not true...and the F250 Superduty that I have now actually gets the same/better mileage...and handles hauling/towing _much _better!


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## Sodbuster (Feb 6, 2020)

I have a 2010 1500 Max towing package and it hauled our 3 horse trailer fully loaded just fine, probably about 11,000 lbs. We only towed occasionally 10 times a year or so, but we had no problems.  If I were towing everyday, I'd probably bump up to a 2500, everything is just a little beefier. My 6.2 is not a gas hog, empty is will get around 17mpg on the highway. Loaded, I don't even check. You don't need to run premium in your 6.2 unless you want the engine to make maximum power. I run regular in mine and it runs just fine, I get around 14 mpg in mostly city driving.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 6, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> No way I'd tow that much with a half ton...no matter if its "rated" for it or not...they exaggerate the tow capacity's.
> Thats a pretty good jag even with a 3/4 or 1 ton!
> Having bought a half ton to save fuel, I found out the hard way that's its just not true...and the F250 Superduty that I have now actually gets the same/better mileage...and handles hauling/towing _much _better!


I'm averaging 24 MPG right mixed driving now in my 06 quad cab, six speed, 4x4, long bed, Dually diesel ram. The last half ton I had, 08 Nissan Titan, averaged about 13 MPG mixed.


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## ABMax24 (Feb 6, 2020)

An 11,000lb bumper pull hitch behind a light half ton can be nerve racking if the weight isn't distributed right (as is almost always the case with a toy hauler) or driving in a cross wind. I have a 33ft 10,500lb fifth wheel holiday trailer that I pull behind a diesel F350, that has a pin weight of 1850lbs, technically on paper this trailer is half ton towable, but I wouldn't want to go very far pulling it with a half ton, especially due to the fact it is 13' 6" tall and has a lot of wind resistance.

I guess what you need to decide is how many miles you will put on it every year. Something like a basic 2500 or 3500 with a 6.0 gas is about the best for what you require if it will only be used for towing and you have another daily driver. A diesel is nice but if you are putting on less than 10k a year it probably makes more economic sense to go gas. If you want to be the fastest guy towing up hills then a diesel is required however.


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## DouglasB12 (Feb 6, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> An 11,000lb bumper pull hitch behind a light half ton can be nerve racking if the weight isn't distributed right (as is almost always the case with a toy hauler) or driving in a cross wind. I have a 33ft 10,500lb fifth wheel holiday trailer that I pull behind a diesel F350, that has a pin weight of 1850lbs, technically on paper this trailer is half ton towable, but I wouldn't want to go very far pulling it with a half ton, especially due to the fact it is 13' 6" tall and has a lot of wind resistance.
> 
> I guess what you need to decide is how many miles you will put on it every year. Something like a basic 2500 or 3500 with a 6.0 gas is about the best for what you require if it will only be used for towing and you have another daily driver. A diesel is nice but if you are putting on less than 10k a year it probably makes more economic sense to go gas. If you want to be the fastest guy towing up hills then a diesel is required however.



I live in Minnesota and am 15 years away from retirement.  Any camping trips we would likely take would be in the great plains area.  The longest trip in the next several years would likely be to the Bad Lands or maybe Mount Rushmore area.  Some day, I think I would enjoy traveling to and through Alaska. Outside of the Alaska trip though, I'm guessing I would put on a total of between 5 and 7,500 miles a year on the truck.  For the rare occasions I would be pulling up a mountain, I can happily drop it into low gear and enjoy the scenery. A diesel would be nice, but I suspect I would run into more maintenance issues from lack of use than anything else.


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## ABMax24 (Feb 6, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> I live in Minnesota and am 15 years away from retirement.  Any camping trips we would likely take would be in the great plains area.  The longest trip in the next several years would likely be to the Bad Lands or maybe Mount Rushmore area.  Some day, I think I would enjoy traveling to and through Alaska. Outside of the Alaska trip though, I'm guessing I would put on a total of between 5 and 7,500 miles a year on the truck.  For the rare occasions I would be pulling up a mountain, I can happily drop it into low gear and enjoy the scenery. A diesel would be nice, but I suspect I would run into more maintenance issues from lack of use than anything else.



You are right on the maintenance part, diesel's are nice but the fuel savings I get would very rapidly vanish if I needed to replace a turbo or injectors, parts gas engines simply don't have. Diesel's shine if you have a heavy load to pull and have to get their quickly, but for a gas engine if you're on vacation when time isn't critical and you can slow down a bit the fuel economy gets better. To me it sounds like a 3/4 or 1 ton gas would suit you well. 

I also happen to live just under 100miles from the start of the Alaska highway and managed to make it up as far as Whitehorse this summer. We went west to Prince Rupert, up the Cassier Highway to Whitehorse and back down the Alaska Highway home, racking up 4800km (3000 miles) in 11 days. That being said on those roads I wouldn't have wanted to be towing my trailer with a half ton, the roads are far too windy and hilly to maintain a reasonable level of stability. Especially for the snow we got the first week in August, a few hills we even needed 4x4 to get the trailer up.

When you do head up to Alaska give yourself lots of time, there are lots of sites to see, especially if you can see Jasper and Banff National parks here in Alberta at the same time. Or if you can make the west coast and run up the Cassiar Highway and check out Stewart BC/Hyder AK, the only place I'm aware of where you can cross from Canada into the US without a border crossing, there is a checkpoint coming back to Canada however.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 6, 2020)

I'm friends with the owner of an excavating company, when he bought a new truck he opted for the Ford V-10 vs a diesel. The diesel came at such a premium and the mileage was on par with the V-10. He for the most part hauls around a Bobcat with attachments. Larger equipment is towed by a dump truck. With all the emission requirements they really sucked the life out of the diesel pickups.


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## stee6043 (Feb 7, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> You don't need to run premium in your 6.2 unless you want the engine to make maximum power. I run regular in mine and it runs just fine, I get around 14 mpg in mostly city driving.



I won't debate this too passionately but my neighbor and I, same 6.2's, drove a bunch of miles a few years back comparing E85, regular and premium.  Both of us had the same result - premium is the lowest cost fuel to use in the 6.2's.  E85 was the next closest.  Regular was the most expensive.  Yer spending more money running regular


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## sloeffle (Feb 7, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> If I was understanding the engine options right, a 6.2L Max Towing 1500 actually tows more than a 2500 - at least until you start stepping up into the bigger more expensive engines in the 2500 series. Then it's back to the lousy gas mileage anyway.


It isn't about pulling, it is about stopping. Three quarter and one ton trucks have much bigger brakes than a half ton. Personally, I wouldn't put much faith in depending on trailer brakes to be my main braking source for my truck and trailer. If you've ever worked on, or replaced a set of trailer brakes you'd understand why.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> It isn't about pulling, it is about stopping. Three quarter and one ton trucks have much bigger brakes than a half ton.


And the way they carry the load too...axles are MUCH heavier duty on 3/4 and 1 tons...suspension too.


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## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

sloeffle said:


> It isn't about pulling, it is about stopping. Three quarter and one ton trucks have much bigger brakes than a half ton. Personally, I wouldn't put much faith in depending on trailer brakes to be my main braking source for my truck and trailer. If you've ever worked on, or replaced a set of trailer brakes you'd understand why.



While that is true at 10k lbs like the OP mentions you'd better have fully functioning trailer brakes. At some point traction between your tow vehicles tires and the road becomes the issue.

That being said an integrated trailer brake controller would be another big plus when shopping for the truck. The garbage inertia based or worse yet timed or simple on/off brake controllers don't even compare to the integrated ones from the OEM's.


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## sloeffle (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> While that is true at 10k lbs like the OP mentions you'd better have fully functioning trailer brakes. At some point traction between your tow vehicles tires and the road becomes the issue.


I don't disagree with you. Guess my point is, if something were to go south ( trailer brakes fail for some reason ) I'd much rather be in a 3/4 ton or one a ton truck than a half ton. A buddy of mine has a newer one ton F350 diesel with an engine brake. He said he barely needs to use his brakes for normal stopping circumstances when towing his camper.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> And the way they carry the load too...axles are MUCH heavier duty on 3/4 and 1 tons...suspension too.


Following up on this a bit more...a 3/4 ton or larger pickup (assuming its at least 8600 GVW) will have a "full floating" axle...the weight is carried on large bearings right in the hub...like this pic.
On a half ton the weight is actually carried buy the axle shaft itself...that's the shaft that's pulled partially out in this pic...on a 3/4 and up this shaft only provides power to the wheels...it carries no weight.
Big difference in strength there.
I cant find the pic now, but somewhere in the recent past I seen a pic of a guy that had broken the rear axle on his F150 after loading a HUGE log in the back of the truck...


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## zrock (Feb 7, 2020)

i will never buy a 1/2 ton again... i just haul 2 atv's on a trailer but most of the time just one in the back of the truck... With the new machine it puts a pretty good lean on the truck. So now i have to install air bags to help it out... would never have to worry about that with a 3/4. Getting tired of always having to wonder on different things what im going to brake. And like pointed out above 3/4 and above are heavy duty and designed for loads lots of good points pointed out above


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## Gearhead660 (Feb 7, 2020)

I would suggest a gas 3/4 ton also.  For as little as you plan to drive it, MPG shouldn't be a big deciding factor.  1/2 tons are more of a people hauler than a truck nowadays, in my opinion.  3/4 tons are what you buy if you're going to use it like a truck is supposed to be used.


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## Ashful (Feb 7, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> It will be used almost exclusively for hauling - typically with a trailer. If I'm hauling wood, the trailer weights will top out usually around 7-8,000 pounds.  I'm also looking at getting a toy hauler travel trailer that will top out between 10-11,000 pounds.


You say right up front, “it will be used almost exclusively for hauling,” but then this if followed with a lot of discussion over fuel mileage when not hauling.  Were you simply over-stating your case?  Why would you care at all about unladened fuel mileage, if it is used almost exclusively for hauling?

I have owned numerous 1/2 ton trucks, and have owned a half dozen different trailers of various weights.  I have regretted every single time I have bought any truck with less than the maximum engine size available in that platform.  Every, single, time.  I find the larger gassers really don’t get worse fuel economy than the smaller engines, after all fuel is just liquid energy, and the amount of energy required to haul your ass around town has very little to do with the engine that is converting that liquid energy into motion, and almost everything to do with the weight of your vehicle and your driving habits.  Simple physics, removing the net efficiencies of the engines involved.


stee6043 said:


> I won't debate this too passionately but my neighbor and I, same 6.2's, drove a bunch of miles a few years back comparing E85, regular and premium.  Both of us had the same result - premium is the lowest cost fuel to use in the 6.2's.  E85 was the next closest.  Regular was the most expensive.  Yer spending more money running regular


This really depends on your specific engine.  Higher octane fuels do not always contain higher energy density, there is no correlation between octane and mileage, when using fuels above the minimum octane recommended for your engine.  However, when moving into fuels below the recommended octane, efficiency does drop thanks to two factors:  (1) pre-detonation or knock, causing higher fuel consumption, and (2) your engine’s computer making adjustments to minimize knock, which will cause a drop in horsepower and your right foot to respond by increasing fuel usage to make up for this loss.

So what you’re really saying is that the threshold for the 6.2L is in this range, somewhere above 87 octane, which is probably noted somewhere in your user manual.  I know the Dodge 5.7L manual states the engine CAN be run on 87, but that performance will be reduced and fuel usage increased.  They recommend minimum 89 octane, if I recall.


brenndatomu said:


> Following up on this a bit more...a 3/4 ton or larger pickup (assuming its at least 8600 GVW) will have a "full floating" axle...the weight is carried on large bearings right in the hub...like this pic.
> On a half ton the weight is actually carried buy the axle shaft itself...that's the shaft that's pulled partially out in this pic...on a 3/4 and up this shaft only provides power to the wheels...it carries no weight.
> Big difference in strength there.
> I cant find the pic now, but somewhere in the recent past I seen a pic of a guy that had broken the rear axle on his F150 after loading a HUGE log in the back of the truck...


I’ve broken two semi-floater axles, in 25 years of driving.  Scary as all hell, at highway speeds.  If I were pulling a trailer with tongue weight anywhere near max spec for a truck, I’d also only want to do it with full floaters.

Do note that trucks in the last ten years are rated for higher tow capacities than the same trucks ten years ago.  I believe this reflects a change in how they’re spec’d, more than any improvement in actual capability.  In other words, manufacturers are getting more aggressive in their spec’s, to the point where it’s a little dangerous and deceiving.  Most now rate their max trailer weight according only to max tongue weight, simply multiplying max tongue weight by 10x to derive a max trailer weight, as if one might manage load their trailer to the exact safe minimum 10% tongue weight.  This is dangerous, as many folks don’t understand this, and loading a trailer to less than 10% tongue weight can make it uncontrollable at highway speeds.


zrock said:


> i will never buy a 1/2 ton again... i just haul 2 atv's on a trailer but most of the time just one in the back of the truck...


I’d not go this far, it really depends on what you’re hauling and how fast you’re hauling it.  I am running a 1/2 ton now, with heavy duty rear springs and a 3.92 rear from the factory, and the integrated proportional trailer brake system.  The max trailer weight rating for this truck is 10,160 lb., and I’d be fine towing close to that at lower speeds on local roads, but would never want to use it near that capacity at highway speed for any duration.  But I’m fine pulling my much lighter (2000 lb.) boat trailers all around the world with this rig, at any highway speed, as well as my 7000 lb. tandem trailer at max load for shorter distances on local roads.

Buy the right tool for your job.  The OP’s present job, presently firewood hauling (assuming local) at 7 - 8000 lb. could be done with many appropriate-configured 1/2 ton trucks.  If he aspires to haul that quoted aspirational toy hauler of 10,000 - 11,000 any distance, then yes... that’s 3/4 or 1-ton work.


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

Ashful said:


> You say right up front, “it will be used almost exclusively for hauling,” but then this if followed with a lot of discussion over fuel mileage when not hauling.  Were you simply over-stating your case?  Why would you care at all about unladened fuel mileage, if it is used almost exclusively for hauling?
> 
> I have owned numerous 1/2 ton trucks, and have owned a half dozen different trailers of various weights.  I have regretted every single time I have bought any truck with less than the maximum engine size available in that platform.  Every, single, time.  I find the larger gassers really don’t get worse fuel economy than the smaller engines, after all fuel is just liquid energy, and the amount of energy required to haul your ass around town has very little to do with the engine that is converting that liquid energy into motion, and almost everything to do with the weight of your vehicle and your driving habits.  Simple physics, removing the net efficiencies of the engines involved.
> 
> ...


Very well said and I agree with it all.  I will add that going with a 1/2 ton when buying used and when intended mainly for hauling there is no benifit over a 3/4 or 1 ton.  And quite a few drawbacks.  If it will be a daily driver as well then yes 1/2 ton trucks drive much nicer when empty.  But that really is the only benifit.


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## Highbeam (Feb 7, 2020)

My f350 diesel is rated to tow 10,000#. It weighs 7500# empty and has huge disc brakes on all wheels plus 8 gallons of antifreeze. Daily driver plus tow pig for a 7000# rv.

I too would like a small half ton gas and they’re now rated to tow my trailer but underneath they are the same little half tons that used to be rated to tow 5000#.

Maybe the compromise is a 3/4 or 1 ton gas truck. They get similar mpg in city and towing but empty freeway cruises give superior mpg in the half ton or the diesel.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 7, 2020)

stee6043 said:


> I won't debate this too passionately but my neighbor and I, same 6.2's, drove a bunch of miles a few years back comparing E85, regular and premium.  Both of us had the same result - premium is the lowest cost fuel to use in the 6.2's.  E85 was the next closest.  Regular was the most expensive.  Yer spending more money running regular



I'll certainly give it a try, I'm not into spending more than I have to!


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## stee6043 (Feb 7, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> I'll certainly give it a try, I'm not into spending more than I have to!



We found that we had to run three full tanks to get the real impact out of the fuel when we were switching between them.  So be patient


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Do note that trucks in the last ten years are rated for higher tow capacities than the same trucks ten years ago. I believe this reflects a change in how they’re spec’d, more than any improvement in actual capability. In other words, manufacturers are getting more aggressive in their spec’s, to the point where it’s a little dangerous and deceiving.


Bingo!


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## Bad LP (Feb 7, 2020)

I only buy 6.0 gas 2500 HD’s for the simple reason is they work great for me. My last one went 90K miles with nothing more than oil changes, 1 air filter and 3 sets of tires. Not a single other bolt was ever touched. 
That has been my experience in over 30 years. 
Had one 1/2 ton in that time. Never again. 
My current 18 bought in Aug of that year just turned 47K miles. Zero issues.


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> I only buy 6.0 gas 2500 HD’s for the simple reason is they work great for me. My last one went 90K miles with nothing more than oil changes, 1 air filter and 3 sets of tires. Not a single other bolt was ever touched.
> That has been my experience in over 30 years.
> Had one 1/2 ton in that time. Never again.
> My current 18 bought in Aug of that year just turned 47K miles. Zero issues.


We have an 06 2500 6.0 that has been a great truck.  But unfortunately the frame is to rusted for me to trust it so it had to be  replaced.  We ended up with a 2017 f250 that seems good so far.  We will see in time.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> 2017 f250


4x4?
We have a 2017 F250 4x4 at work...dang thing takes an extension ladder to get in/out of it! Seriously, we had to put step bars on it so the shorter guys could use it. IIRC the floor measures 30" high.
Why they gotta be so tall?!


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> 4x4?
> We have a 2017 F250 4x4 at work...dang thing takes an extension ladder to get in/out of it! Seriously, we had to put step bars on it so the shorter guys could use it. IIRC the floor measures 30" high.
> Why they gotta be so tall?!


Yes 4x4 but all newer 4x4 trucks are that high I don't know why they think a work truck needs to sit that damn high.  I don't mind getting in and out of it but getting stuff in the bed or getting ladders on and off sucks


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## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

Generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used off-road or at least on gravel and dirt roads where they benefit from the extra ground clearance.


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## DouglasB12 (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> Generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used off-road or at least on gravel and dirt roads where they benefit from the extra ground clearance.



I would never buy a truck that did not have 4 wheel drive. I cut wood in timber and slog through mud and snow to get there.  4 wheel drive has saved my butt more times that I can count! LOL


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## DouglasB12 (Feb 7, 2020)

Thank you everyone for your input.  I have gone back and taken a closer look at the 2500's. They really are not so much more expensive as to be ruled out. It also seems to significantly increase the peace of mind factor.

As others have noted, having an integrated brake controller is a must. Any truck I look at is going to have the oversized towing mirrors, which come as part of a towing package - including the brake controller. How about the bells and whistles - are there items that are must have or worthless? I think the back up camera is a no brainer - so much easier when hooking up trailers. There seems to be a lot of "quality of life" upgrades in the LTZ packages also.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> Generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used off-road or at least on gravel and dirt roads where they benefit from the extra ground clearance.


Ground clearance is one thing, the bed rails being 5' off the ground is another.
The new 4x4's are as tall (or taller) as trucks from the 80's with 4" lift and oversized tires!
I bought a flatbed for my Superduty just because the height of the bedrails makes it such a PITA to load/unload wood. (haven't installed it yet though)


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> Generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used off-road or at least on gravel and dirt roads where they benefit from the extra ground clearance.


No generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used on the road but also have the capability to get places you wouldn't otherwise be able to get.  Just this week I had to pull our work van up a muddy driveway with the truck.  I don't need extra ground clearance in my work truck at all.  It is not an off-road rig but I do need 4wd to be able to get to some jobsites especially when towing a trailer.   If I want to go actual offroading I have my bronco for that.


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Ground clearance is one thing, the bed rails being 5' off the ground is another.
> The new 4x4's are as tall (or taller) as trucks from the 80's with 4" lift and oversized tires!
> I bought a flatbed for my Superduty just because the height of the bedrails makes it such a PITA to load/unload wood. (haven't installed it yet though)


Look at the rear axle on that f250 there is a 4" lift block there from the factory.  I wish the front had one to I would just pull them and make it a more reasonable height for loading.


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## Bad LP (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> We have an 06 2500 6.0 that has been a great truck.  But unfortunately the frame is to rusted for me to trust it so it had to be  replaced.  We ended up with a 2017 f250 that seems good so far.  We will see in time.


I have the frame oiled (New Hampshire Undercoating is the stuff IIRC) I did not do it this fall but it will get done in the spring after all the salts are washed off the roads.
There is another company that oils all the nooks and crannies of the body that a friend has done to his truck. Sure it drips for a few days but it won’t rust.
I had a F250 plow truck that needed work all the time. Many friends who run them and I’m shocked at what they do to keep them on the road.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> Look at the rear axle on that f250 there is a 4" lift block there from the factory.  I wish the front had one to I would just pull them and make it a more reasonable height for loading.


Yup...had a Ram 3500 with the same setup, customer wanted it lower so his 5th wheel trailer would ride level...took the 4" blocks out and had 2" milled off at the machine shop, that made the trailer a little closer to level, and the truck was closer to level too (when empty...was really nose down empty from factory)


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## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> I have the frame oiled (New Hampshire Undercoating is the stuff IIRC) I did not do it this fall but it will get done in the spring after all the salts are washed off the roads.
> There is another company that oils all the nooks and crannies of the body that a friend has done to his truck. Sure it drips for a few days but it won’t rust.
> I had a F250 plow truck that needed work all the time. Many friends who run them and I’m shocked at what they do to keep them on the road.


We started that about 5 years ago but it was to late at that point


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Yup...had a Ram 3500 with the same setup, customer wanted it lower so his 5th wheel trailer would ride level...took the 4" blocks out and had 2" milled off at the machine shop, that made the trailer a little closer to level, and the truck was closer to level too (when empty...was really nose down empty from factory)


The Ford sits pretty level so I can't do that in my case.


----------



## Bad LP (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> The Ford sits pretty level so I can't do that in my case.


Down home the town just bought a new F350. Getting in and out of that all day must blow chunks not to mention the bed rail height is very high as well.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 7, 2020)

DouglasB12 said:


> As others have noted, having an integrated brake controller is a must. Any truck I look at is going to have the oversized towing mirrors, which come as part of a towing package - including the brake controller. How about the bells and whistles - are there items that are must have or worthless?


I don't know how they're configuring the HD trucks, but the 1/2 ton trucks are all shipping with stupid gearing, these days.  The standard 3.21 gears belong in my wife's station wagon, not a pickup truck, they make the damn thing almost feel like a CVT.  So, the absolute #1 upgrade for me was a posi rear with 3.92 gears.  I wouldn't even look at any truck without that option.

HD rear springs, if it's an option.  It won't help your unloaded height, per the last few posts, but it will make it ride nicer with a lot of weight on the tongue.

On the more frivolous end of things, per your question:

1.  Remote start.  Since I mostly park my truck outdoors, this is my absolute favorite option.  I hit the remote start button, fill my thermos, kiss the wife and kids, put on my shoes and coat, water the chickens, and by the time I hop into the truck it is warm.

2.  Heated seats.  See above remote start.

3.  Heated steering wheel.  I actually laughed at this stupid option when I heard about it, but have to admit I've come to love it.

4.  Heated mirrors, I hate when they ice up, and I can't see my trailer.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I don't know how they're configuring the HD trucks, but the 1/2 ton trucks are all shipping with stupid gearing, these days.  The standard 3.21 gears belong in my wife's station wagon, not a pickup truck, they make the damn thing almost feel like a CVT.  So, the absolute #1 upgrade for me was a posi rear with 3.92 gears.  I wouldn't even look at any truck without that option.
> 
> HD rear springs, if it's an option.  It won't help your unloaded height, per the last few posts, but it will make it ride nicer with a lot of weight on the tongue.
> 
> ...


Most heavy trucks have a few choices as far as gearing the same as the 1/2 tos. 
 What I like about ours is electronic locking differentials.  So most of the time driving around you have a nice smooth open diff.  But flip a switch.  And in this case go out and turn the hubs for the front and both diffs and the transfer case are locked.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> No generally 4x4 trucks are designed to be used on the road but also have the capability to get places you wouldn't otherwise be able to get.  Just this week I had to pull our work van up a muddy driveway with the truck.  I don't need extra ground clearance in my work truck at all.  It is not an off-road rig but I do need 4wd to be able to get to some jobsites especially when towing a trailer.   If I want to go actual offroading I have my bronco for that.



I guess you and I come from very different parts of the world, around here 4x4 and high ground clearance is a way of life, it's not until you get your work truck stuck in the dead center of a road 200km from civilization that you'll understand why. It's not optional in many cases to wait for the roads to dry up, operators need to get to wells, mechanics to compressors, welders to the pipelines, loggers to their equipment.

I guess we could argue semantics as to whether or not the truck is designed for this service, but I've yet to see an "offroad Bronco" with a welding skid or mechanics service body on the back.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> Most heavy trucks have a few choices as far as gearing the same as the 1/2 tos.
> What I like about ours is electronic locking differentials.  So most of the time driving around you have a nice smooth open diff.  But flip a switch.  And in this case go out and turn the hubs for the front and both diffs and the transfer case are locked.



Front diffs on the F-series trucks don't lock, they are always open.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> I guess you and I come from very different parts of the world, around here 4x4 and high ground clearance is a way of life, it's not until you get your work truck stuck in the dead center of a road 200km from civilization that you'll understand why. It's not optional in many cases to wait for the roads to dry up, operators need to get to wells, mechanics to compressors, welders to the pipelines, loggers to their equipment.
> 
> I guess we could argue semantics as to whether or not the truck is designed for this service, but I've yet to see an "offroad Bronco" with a welding skid or mechanics service body on the back.


And yes if I worked in an area like that it would be different.  But here we just don't need extra ground clearance for the work we do.  The guys working in the gas fields yes.  But why is it I can't get a truck that I can load easily and don't have to climb up on the bumper to get a ladder anymore.  Why not make a reasonable height truck and have an option of extra ground clearance?  That is how it was done in the past.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> Front diffs on the F-series trucks don't lock, they are always open.


Not true front lockers was an option.  Ours has it


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

I actually like the older Chevy much more.  It drives nicer it is much lower and easier to load and get in and out of.  The Ford is nicer in many ways but the Chevy was easier to use


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> And yes if I worked in an area like that it would be different.  But here we just don't need extra ground clearance for the work we do.  The guys working in the gas fields yes.  But why is it I can't get a truck that I can load easily and don't have to climb up on the bumper to get a ladder anymore.  Why not make a reasonable height truck and have an option of extra ground clearance?  That is how it was done in the past.



That you'd have to ask the manufacturer, they make what sells.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> That you'd have to ask the manufacturer, they make what sells.


Well when you need a work truck and the only ones available are now 6" higher than they used to be you don't have an option to buy anything else.  Almost every contractor I talk to complains about it.  The fact is they are not making trucks for contractors any more.  It is really hard to find a long bed regular cab truck on a lot in this area atleast.  Even new they just aren't carried.  They all tried to sell me a short bed crew cab.  Saying you can haul your family around to.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not true front lockers was an option.  Ours has it



You'd have to show me where then, I've never seen one, my truck has the electronic locking rear diff.

A locking front diff would make the handling very poor, the steering would be quite difficult.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> Well when you need a work truck and the only ones available are now 6" higher than they used to be you don't have an option to buy anything else.  Almost every contractor I talk to complains about it.  The fact is they are not making trucks for contractors any more.  It is really hard to find a long bed regular cab truck on a lot in this area atleast.  Even new they just aren't carried.  They all tried to sell me a short bed crew cab.  Saying you can haul your family around to.




That's the same here. Most people don't want a regular cab long bed for their daily driver, we have to special order in all our work trucks from the plant, and then ship them to the upfitter to be built. Last picker truck we built took 6 months from the date of order to delivery and cost $150k. Granted this is an F550 diesel Crew Cab with 7500lb lift picker, tool cabinets and 7 foot deck.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> You'd have to show me where then, I've never seen one, my truck has the electronic locking rear diff.
> 
> A locking front diff would make the handling very poor, the steering would be quite difficult.


Well yeah you can't drive it on pavement with it locked at all.  Even the rear is bad when locked on pavement.   But when you need it a front locker is really nice.  I put a locker in the front of my bronco and a couple other off road rigs I have had.  They aren't to bad to steer off road when locked.  When unlocked it drives like any open diff.


----------



## bholler (Feb 7, 2020)

I made the mistake of putting a limited slip in the front axle of my bronco to start with because I had one for a dana 44.  That was scary to drive in 4wd.  Don't ever do that.  Then i ran a lunchbox locker up front for a while but the noise annoyed me.  So I spent the money and did it right.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 7, 2020)

bholler said:


> I made the mistake of putting a limited slip in the front axle of my bronco to start with because I had one for a dana 44.  That was scary to drive in 4wd.  Don't ever do that.  Then i ran a lunchbox locker up front for a while but the noise annoyed me.  So I spent the money and did it right.



I can definitely understand why. I've got a RZR side by side for serious off road use, most trails here are to tight for anything wider, and with the soft muskeg lighter weight is definitely an advantage.


----------



## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2020)

Internet went down in this region for most of the day yesterday, so I have some catching up. If you want to go wheeling, don't buy a 3/4+ ton truck. Even a half ton is too big most of the time. For going down fire breaks and service roads you will be ok, but more than that and you will sink or be too big. 1/2 ton and larger trucks just aren't that great off road, unless you are doing trophy truck type stuff, and then it's a different story.


----------



## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2020)

bholler said:


> I made the mistake of putting a limited slip in the front axle of my bronco to start with because I had one for a dana 44.  That was scary to drive in 4wd.  Don't ever do that.  Then i ran a lunchbox locker up front for a while but the noise annoyed me.  So I spent the money and did it right.


Why was it scary? I've taken limited slip diffs off road and I'd rather have one than an open diff.


----------



## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2020)

bholler said:


> Not true front lockers was an option.  Ours has it


Also the Raptor comes with an LSD in the front, or at least it used to. I'd like lockers in my truck to help with snow and ice.


----------



## bholler (Feb 8, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Why was it scary? I've taken limited slip diffs off road and I'd rather have one than an open diff.


Unpredictable handling on the road through turns as it locked and unlocked.  Off road was not an issue.


----------



## SpaceBus (Feb 8, 2020)

bholler said:


> Unpredictable handling on the road through turns as it locked and unlocked.  Off road was not an issue.


In what kind of on road conditions? Most AWD performance vehicles have three limited slip differentials and they work awesome on dry pavement. Military Humvees are the same.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 8, 2020)

bholler said:


> why is it I can't get a truck that I can load easily and don't have to climb up on the bumper to get a ladder anymore.  Why not make a reasonable height truck and have an option of extra ground clearance?  That is how it was done in the past.


Substantial time and money goes into studying what the market wants, for every such decision.  Occasionally they get it wrong, but not often.   So, let’s assume the popular vote is toward trucks that look tougher, and hence taller.

Practicality is such a secondary theme, in many vehicle purchasing decisions, image often over-rules.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 8, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Practicality is such a secondary theme, in many vehicle purchasing decisions, image often over-rules.


Man, it must really suck being such a slave to what other people think of your ride! Expensive too!
Wish I would have developed my "don't care what you think of me and my stuff" attitude back in high school, would have saved me a lot of time and trouble...(and coin)


----------



## bholler (Feb 8, 2020)

SpaceBus said:


> Internet went down in this region for most of the day yesterday, so I have some catching up. If you want to go wheeling, don't buy a 3/4+ ton truck. Even a half ton is too big most of the time. For going down fire breaks and service roads you will be ok, but more than that and you will sink or be too big. 1/2 ton and larger trucks just aren't that great off road, unless you are doing trophy truck type stuff, and then it's a different story.


That depends on the area.  There are





SpaceBus said:


> In what kind of on road conditions? Most AWD performance vehicles have three limited slip differentials and they work awesome on dry pavement. Military Humvees are the same.


Light snow covered roads the random locking and unlocking caused unpredictable handling.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 8, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> Man, it must really suck being such a slave to what other people think of your ride! Expensive too!


I wouldn’t know.  I drive a Dodge.  If I cared enough what people thought, I guess I’d have spent twice as much for an AMG with a nicer badge but less horsepower.

Or maybe I’d have bought a more expensive 2500, when all I really need is a 1500.  That’d give me bragging rights, for what?


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 8, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I wouldn’t know.  I drive a Dodge.  If I cared enough what people thought, I guess I’d have spent twice as much for an AMG with a nicer badge but less horsepower.
> 
> Or maybe I’d have bought a more expensive 2500, when all I really need is a 1500.  That’d give me bragging rights, for what?


My comment was directed toward people in general...not you specifically...just FYI.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Feb 9, 2020)

stee6043 said:


> My 2011 GMC 6.2L ran consistent 14/15 mpg city.  My 2019 6.2L runs 19+ mpg city.  You might be amazed by the economy of the newer engines with all the new fangled tech...like auto start/stop.


Thats great city MPG for a heavy truck.    My 2015 V-6  1500 Sierra does great on the hwy as much as 26  but around town stop and go its down to 15 MPG.


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 9, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> My f350 diesel is rated to tow 10,000#. It weighs 7500# empty and has huge disc brakes on all wheels plus 8 gallons of antifreeze. Daily driver plus tow pig for a 7000# rv.
> 
> I too would like a small half ton gas and they’re now rated to tow my trailer but underneath they are the same little half tons that used to be rated to tow 5000#.
> 
> Maybe the compromise is a 3/4 or 1 ton gas truck. They get similar mpg in city and towing but empty freeway cruises give superior mpg in the half ton or the diesel.


What year?  I just ordered a 2020 F350 with the new 7.3 gas.  It has 21,000 towing and 32,000 5th wheel towing. 

here is what I can tell you about your choices. I do a camshaft and set of lifters a month in my shop in the 5.3. The AFM motor is junk until the AFM is deleted and can and lifters replaces. I never work on the 6.2 and I’ve never even drove one.

Ford half ton, I work in a Ford dealership as a tech, stay away from the 3.5 and 2.7. The turbos and a lot of other stuff make them very expensive. We see very few problems with the 5.0 gas motors.

if I were you I’d find a 100k mile diesel and spend a couple thousand for a powertrain warranty.  For a camper/toy hauler that size from experience I’d shy away from a 1/2 ton to pull it.  Rule of thumb is never exceed 75% of towing capacity on a regular basis.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 9, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> What year?  I just ordered a 2020 F350 with the new 7.3 gas.  It has 21,000 towing and 32,000 5th wheel towing.



Have a second look at your numbers, your fifth wheel towing weights are out by about 10,000lbs.



			https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2020%20Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide_Sep26.pdf


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 9, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> Have a second look at your numbers, your fifth wheel towing weights are out by about 10,000lbs.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2020%20Ford_RVandTrailerTowingGuide_Sep26.pdf


The frame is the same.  GCVW is the same.  The truck will handle the 6.7 towing amounts no problem.  I ordered a regular cab dually.


----------



## ABMax24 (Feb 9, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> The frame is the same.  GCVW is the same.  The truck will handle the 6.7 towing amounts no problem.  I ordered a regular cab dually.



No the GCWR is not the same. Do whatever you want, but that truck is rated for a max of 21,200 towing assuming it has the 4.30 rear end. You open yourself up to liability by towing over rated capacity if you are ever involved in an accident.

You also stated in a previous post to never exceed 75% of the towing capacity, now you say its acceptable to exceed the towing capacity by 50%, which is it?


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 9, 2020)

ABMax24 said:


> No the GCWR is not the same. Do whatever you want, but that truck is rated for a max of 21,200 towing assuming it has the 4.30 rear end. You open yourself up to liability by towing over rated capacity if you are ever involved in an accident.
> 
> You also stated in a previous post to never exceed 75% of the towing capacity, now you say its acceptable to exceed the towing capacity by 50%, which is it?


I said on a regular basis.  The only difference in these trucks is the engine and torque converter.  The rest is identical.  I have no need to ever tow that amount.  I bought the dually for towing a camper that’s 10k.  It more stable at highway speeds.  I would feel very comfortable with the correct setup towing the max rated for that chassis.


----------



## Highbeam (Feb 9, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> What year?  I just ordered a 2020 F350 with the new 7.3 gas.  It has 21,000 towing and 32,000 5th wheel towing.
> 
> here is what I can tell you about your choices. I do a camshaft and set of lifters a month in my shop in the 5.3. The AFM motor is junk until the AFM is deleted and can and lifters replaces. I never work on the 6.2 and I’ve never even drove one.
> 
> ...



It’s a 7.3 but in a 2000 model year. The new trucks have amazingly high ratings.


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 9, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> It’s a 7.3 but in a 2000 model year. The new trucks have amazingly high ratings.


That makes sense, reliable and won’t die but, half the power of a gas motor today lol.


----------



## Sodbuster (Feb 9, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> What year?  I just ordered a 2020 F350 with the new 7.3 gas.  It has 21,000 towing and 32,000 5th wheel towing.
> 
> here is what I can tell you about your choices. I do a camshaft and set of lifters a month in my shop in the 5.3. The AFM motor is junk until the AFM is deleted and can and lifters replaces. I never work on the 6.2 and I’ve never even drove one.
> 
> ...



That's why I bought the 6.2, it has 112,000 miles on it and I've never done anything but required maintenance. I wanted nothing to do with the AFM.


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 9, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> That's why I bought the 6.2, it has 112,000 miles on it and I've never done anything but required maintenance. I wanted nothing to do with the AFM.


I had one in a 2009 GMC.  It left such a bad taste in my mouth I dumped it in three years at 37,000 miles.  I will NEVER own another GM product.


----------



## Sodbuster (Feb 9, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I had one in a 2009 GMC.  It left such a bad taste in my mouth I dumped it in three years at 37,000 miles.  I will NEVER own another GM product.



What didn't you like about it, are you talking the engine or GM in general?


----------



## stee6043 (Feb 10, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> That's why I bought the 6.2, it has 112,000 miles on it and I've never done anything but required maintenance. I wanted nothing to do with the AFM.



From what I've read the AFM has improved dramatically in the last few years.  It is 100% transparent on the '19's.  No lights, no change in sound, no nothing. Zero perceptible change in feel whilst driving.  I understand that was not the case on the earlier AFM models.

You can also disable it by driving in either sport mode or tow/haul.  But again, I can't imagine anyone being able to notice it on the newer trucks.


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 10, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> What didn't you like about it, are you talking the engine or GM in general?


I had went through oil consumption test after oil consumption test.  They had done everything short of a long block.  I was using 6 quarts every 3,000 miles.  I had to add oil one morning, oil pressure light came on going around a curve, and it was 4.5 quarts low.  I filled it took it too the dealer and they said I had to start the test over since I added oil.  For like the 10th f’in time. 

I will never own another one of their products.  RAM, Jeep, or Ford will be all that’s parked in my driveway.  When I spend the kind of money I spent on that truck I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have it fixed under warranty in a timely manner.

I bought my first RAM 45 min after leaving that dealership.  8 years later I’m on my second one.  Only one problem between the two trucks and it was taken care of painlessly under warranty.


----------



## stee6043 (Feb 10, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I had went through oil consumption test after oil consumption test.  They had done everything short of a long block.  I was using 6 quarts every 3,000 miles.  I had to add oil one morning, oil pressure light came on going around a curve, and it was 4.5 quarts low.  I filled it took it too the dealer and they said I had to start the test over since I added oil.  For like the 10th f’in time.
> 
> I will never own another one of their products.  RAM, Jeep, or Ford will be all that’s parked in my driveway.  When I spend the kind of money I spent on that truck I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have it fixed under warranty in a timely manner.
> 
> I bought my first RAM 45 min after leaving that dealership.  8 years later I’m on my second one.  Only one problem between the two trucks and it was taken care of painlessly under warranty.



If you ask the marketing team at Fiat Chrysler which group of owners is hardest to penetrate they'll tell you GM trucks.  Congrats on being one of the few they've managed to compel to make the switch!

Vehicles are mass produced.  You'll always have outliers, the really bad experience, the engine that burns 10 quarts of oil per gallon of gas.  It is absolutely no different than the guy that made it to 1,000,000 miles with his Silverado by only changing the oil and tires, never a single repair.  Statistically equivalent.  Sorry you had a bad experience but maybe you just had a bad dealer?  Good luck with your Ford/FCA products at any rate.  Those new Rams are sharp looking trucks...


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 10, 2020)

stee6043 said:


> If you ask the marketing team at Fiat Chrysler which group of owners is hardest to penetrate they'll tell you GM trucks.  Congrats on being one of the few they've managed to compel to make the switch!
> 
> Vehicles are mass produced.  You'll always have outliers, the really bad experience, the engine that burns 10 quarts of oil per gallon of gas.  It is absolutely no different than the guy that made it to 1,000,000 miles with his Silverado by only changing the oil and tires, never a single repair.  Statistically equivalent.  Sorry you had a bad experience but maybe you just had a bad dealer?  Good luck with your Ford/FCA products at any rate.  Those new Rams are sharp looking trucks...


I’m a Ford Technician for the same dealer group I had bought that GM off of.  Their hands were tied by GM.  I ordered a new Ford last week, take advantage of the employee pricing while I can since I’m going back to a full time Paramedic/Fleet Manager job in three weeks.  

I do like the Silverado and Sierras and think the Duramax is the most reliable and proven Diesel engine available in light duty today.  I’m work a truck hard and don’t feel GM lives up to that standard and the horrible warranty history I had.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 10, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I bought my first RAM 45 min after leaving that dealership.  8 years later I’m on my second one.  Only one problem between the two trucks and it was taken care of painlessly under warranty.


I’m only driving 1/2 tons with 5.7 liter gassers, but I’ve had the same experience.  Had a Chevy 1500 that was just one problem after another, and replaced in in 2005 with a Ram.  I did this with some reluctance, I was not enthused about buying a Dodge, but they were the only brand still offering manual trans in a 1/2 ton at that time.  So, I went with it.

I had that first Ram 12 years, and it only needed one repair, a self-inflicted tear in one of the $30 CV joint boots (earned while off-roading).  Purchased another Ram to replace it in 2017, and similarly zero problems, it has been as reliable as concrete.  The only issue I’ve had with either, mostly due to the way I use them for bad (snowy/icy) weather and then let them sit damp and salty anytime the weather turns nice, is some body rust on the 2005 model.

I thought I was the oddball on that, but a friend who owns a large fleet of work trucks just abandoned his beloved GMC, and started switching his entire fleet to Ram.  Go figure.


----------



## Sodbuster (Feb 10, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I had went through oil consumption test after oil consumption test.  They had done everything short of a long block.  I was using 6 quarts every 3,000 miles.  I had to add oil one morning, oil pressure light came on going around a curve, and it was 4.5 quarts low.  I filled it took it too the dealer and they said I had to start the test over since I added oil.  For like the 10th f’in time.
> 
> I will never own another one of their products.  RAM, Jeep, or Ford will be all that’s parked in my driveway.  When I spend the kind of money I spent on that truck I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have it fixed under warranty in a timely manner.
> 
> I bought my first RAM 45 min after leaving that dealership.  8 years later I’m on my second one.  Only one problem between the two trucks and it was taken care of painlessly under warranty.



You must have gotten a lemon, it happens, mine doesn't burn a drop. My only complaints about my Chevy is all the little stuff that breaks. For example, a cable snapped in of the drivers door forcing me to roll down my window and use the outside handle. Finally had that fixed. The button for the passenger side window will  not operate the passenger side window, it just clicks, yet the passenger can use their button and the window rolls down fine.  There's more but I can't think of them right now.


----------



## Medic21 (Feb 10, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> You must have gotten a lemon, it happens, mine doesn't burn a drop. My only complaints about my Chevy is all the little stuff that breaks. For example, a cable snapped in of the drivers door forcing me to roll down my window and use the outside handle. Finally had that fixed. The button for the passenger side window will  not operate the passenger side window, it just clicks, yet the passenger can use their button and the window rolls down fine.  There's more but I can't think of them right now.



What year and motor? GMs oil consumption TSB allows 3 quarts every 5000 miles as normal usage. That TSB applied to all AFM motors up until at least 2016 that I know of.

Ford as RAM are 1 quart every 5000 miles.  Which, in my opinion is not too bad.  GMs use over half their capacity at that rate.


----------



## Sodbuster (Feb 10, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> What year and motor? GMs oil consumption TSB allows 3 quarts every 5000 miles as normal usage. That TSB applied to all AFM motors up until at least 2016 that I know of.
> 
> Ford as RAM are 1 quart every 5000 miles.  Which, in my opinion is not too bad.  GMs use over half their capacity at that rate.



It's a 2010


----------



## Sodbuster (Feb 10, 2020)

stee6043 said:


> From what I've read the AFM has improved dramatically in the last few years.  It is 100% transparent on the '19's.  No lights, no change in sound, no nothing. Zero perceptible change in feel whilst driving.  I understand that was not the case on the earlier AFM models.
> 
> You can also disable it by driving in either sport mode or tow/haul.  But again, I can't imagine anyone being able to notice it on the newer trucks.



That's why I won't buy a car that is brand new, car makers love to test their cars and trucks with the consumer. Sure they have the test models they drive around that are camouflaged so you can't see the actual body style, but that doesn't really equate to thousands of people driving in different conditions and driving styles. I like to buy a car or truck that is about 2 -3 years old and right before a style change. By then they usually have the kinks worked out.  And let some other guy take the depreciation hit.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 10, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> You must have gotten a lemon, it happens, mine doesn't burn a drop.


Could be,
  Going on 40+  yrs of GM trucks , I havnt experienced any unusual oil usage ever. Could be a head gasket going or worn  rings,may not have been broken in right.  My newest addition to the fleet ,a 2015 GMC is operating flawlessly as far as nothing failing or breaking for  about 5000 miles over7 months now.  Normally i never have to add any oil at all between oil changes once a yr.  Even in the 25yr old silverado.  I just changed the oil to Synthetic as i do in all my vehicles.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 10, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I had went through oil consumption test after oil consumption test.  They had done everything short of a long block.  I was using 6 quarts every 3,000 miles.  I had to add oil one morning, oil pressure light came on going around a curve, and it was 4.5 quarts low.  I filled it took it too the dealer and they said I had to start the test over since I added oil.  For like the 10th f’in time.
> 
> I will never own another one of their products.  RAM, Jeep, or Ford will be all that’s parked in my driveway.  When I spend the kind of money I spent on that truck I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have it fixed under warranty in a timely manner.
> 
> I bought my first RAM 45 min after leaving that dealership.  8 years later I’m on my second one.  Only one problem between the two trucks and it was taken care of painlessly under warranty.




6 qts in 3000 miles is ridiculous, at that rate you'd never have to change the oil, just the filter, it doesn't have the chance to get dirty. Even their 3 qts in 5000 mi is crazy, what a poor excuse for a truck manufacturer. The biggest problem with my 2010 Silverado is the rear fender well rust is starting to break out very quickly, in a year or so, I'll be driving a fender flapper.  My wife's 2010 Camry with 180,000 miles on it and is driven longer and on saltier roads, zero rust.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 10, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> 6 qts in 3000 miles is ridiculous, at that rate you'd never have to change the oil, just the filter, it doesn't have the chance to get dirty. Even their 3 qts in 5000 mi is crazy, what a poor excuse for a truck manufacturer


BMW claims (or used to) that 1 qt per 1000 miles is ok in their bikes...I was never impressed by that at all.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 10, 2020)

brenndatomu said:


> BMW claims (or used to) that 1 qt per 1000 miles is ok in their bikes...I was never impressed by that at all.


Maybe the purists are right and they should have stayed air cooled.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> 6 qts in 3000 miles is ridiculous, at that rate you'd never have to change the oil, just the filter,


 Was reading that GM acceptable rate is 1Qt for 2000 miles. So 6 qts in 3000 miles would indicate something wrong. Ill be checking mine tomorrow as iv put about 3000 miles on since i had it changed to synth.  GMs v6 takes 6qts and all 8cyl engines take 8.5Qts of oil.


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## Bad LP (Feb 11, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Was reading that GM acceptable rate is 1Qt for 2000 miles. So 6 qts in 3000 miles would indicate something wrong. Ill be checking mine tomorrow as iv put about 3000 miles on since i had it changed to synth.  GMs v6 takes 6qts and all 8cyl engines take 8.5Qts of oil.


The 6.0 V8 only takes 6 qts.


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## Gearhead660 (Feb 11, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> The 6.0 V8 only takes 6 qts.


I thought all the 4.8/5.3/6.0 gas engines took 6 qts also.  All the 6.0 trucks I have had only take 6 qts.


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## Medic21 (Feb 11, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> I thought all the 4.8/5.3/6.0 gas engines took 6 qts also.  All the 6.0 trucks I have had only take 6 qts.


It’s actually 5.5, never seen 8 in anything newer outside a diesel.


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## Gearhead660 (Feb 11, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> It’s actually 5.5, never seen 8 in anything newer outside a diesel.


I think the 5.5 is w/o filter.  Add filter change and its 6.  but that's splitting hairs.


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## Ashful (Feb 11, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Could be,
> Going on 40+  yrs of GM trucks , I havnt experienced any unusual oil usage ever. Could be a head gasket going or worn  rings,may not have been broken in right.  My newest addition to the fleet ,a 2015 GMC is operating flawlessly as far as nothing failing or breaking for  about 5000 miles over7 months now.  Normally i never have to add any oil at all between oil changes once a yr.  Even in the 25yr old silverado.  I just changed the oil to Synthetic as i do in all my vehicles.


Speaking chronologically, think your vehicles are on either side of the GM small block “short skirt” debacle, that is the source of so many of the problems mentioned here. Google “GM piston slap,” if you were somehow living under a rock and missed this whole mess, fifteen years ago.  In any case, it seems the “it’s normal for your vehicle to burn half a crankcase worth of oil between oil changes” statements all began with regard to this redesign.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Bad LP said:


> The 6.0 V8 only takes 6 qts.


My owners manual for my 2015 GMC states v-6 6qt ,all 8s 8.5 qts. 
IF some are putting in 5 qts they are already 3.5 qts low.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

I just checked my 2015 after about 2500 mi on a change ,dash meter says 60% oil life left ,stick says still full. My 1995 id say uses about a half quart or so by the time i change it, not enough to add.   I expect about a half qt to a quart low after about a year depending on use and mileage.


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## Ashful (Feb 11, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> I thought all the 4.8/5.3/6.0 gas engines took 6 qts also.  All the 6.0 trucks I have had only take 6 qts.


Damn, that’s a small pan capacity for a 6.0L in a truck. Even my wife’s little Volvo 2.5L takes more oil that that, and they’re not planning for consumption of multiple quarts between oil changes.  My RAM, our little SUV, and my sedan all spec 7.0 - 7.2 quarts. 

No oil coolers on GM’s heavy duty trucks?  That can add another quart, in most cases.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Speaking chronologically, think your vehicles are on either side of the GM small block “short skirt” debacle, that is the source of so many of the problems mentioned here.


I most likely(fortunately) missed  those years.  I did hear other GM owners online complain about excessive oil use ,though some were doing a lot of towing with a V-6 or small 8 .


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Damn, that’s a small pan capacity for a 6.0L in a truck. Even my wife’s little Volvo 2.5L takes more oil that that, and they’re not planning for consumption of multiple quarts between oil changes.


My wifes Camaro has a 6.2 and its 8QTs .


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> I thought all the 4.8/5.3/6.0 gas engines took 6 qts also.  All the 6.0 trucks I have had only take 6 qts.


Im going by my 2010 and 2015 manuals, i guess other years could be different.


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## Medic21 (Feb 11, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Speaking chronologically, think your vehicles are on either side of the GM small block “short skirt” debacle, that is the source of so many of the problems mentioned here. Google “GM piston slap,” if you were somehow living under a rock and missed this whole mess, fifteen years ago.  In any case, it seems the “it’s normal for your vehicle to burn half a crankcase worth of oil between oil changes” statements all began with regard to this redesign.


I changed a lot of ford motors back in the late 90s For piston slap.  The difference was Ford said that’s not normal and fixed them under warranty and GM said it’s normal for a gas motor to sound like a diesel for the first 5 mins lol.


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## Highbeam (Feb 11, 2020)

The only reason I care about what the manufacturer thinks is the oil capacity is so that I buy enough oil for a change. Then I refill to the fill line and put the leftovers on the shelf. Are you folks really just dumping in what the book says it needs regardless of the dipstick reading? 

15 quarts in the 7.3 diesel BTW. Just the filter holds two quarts. Lots of oil remains in the engine during a routine O&F job.


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## Bad LP (Feb 11, 2020)

Every 6.0 I’ve owned including this 2018 was 6 quarts. Both my 13 and 16 were the same. 

Here’s a picture taken 2 mins ago.


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## Bad LP (Feb 11, 2020)

Picture got chopped but you get the point. Sorry for the dirt. It snowed last Friday up north and the crap was still melting and falling off yesterday not forgetting its raining down here to boot.


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## Ashful (Feb 11, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> The only reason I care about what the manufacturer thinks is the oil capacity is so that I buy enough oil for a change. Then I refill to the fill line and put the leftovers on the shelf. Are you folks really just dumping in what the book says it needs regardless of the dipstick reading?


I put in 1 quart shy of the specified fill, and then start checking with the dipstick.  If I just spun a new dry filter onto the motor, then I fill right to the top of the range on the dipstick, knowing the initial filter priming is going to knock it back down a bit.  If just topping off between changes, or on small engines without filters, then I fill to the middle of the range on the dipstick.

Another factor is that, other than my pickup truck, I usually do my changes on ramps, now.  I can’t get a good reading on most vehicles on a ramp, so knowing the capacity is the only way to get anywhere close, before you back it off the ramps and do a check with the dipstick.


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## Highbeam (Feb 11, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I put in 1 quart shy of the specified fill, and then start checking with the dipstick.  If I just spun a new dry filter onto the motor, then I fill right to the top of the range on the dipstick, knowing the initial filter priming is going to knock it back down a bit.  If just topping off between changes, or on small engines without filters, then I fill to the middle of the range on the dipstick.
> 
> Another factor is that, other than my pickup truck, I usually do my changes on ramps, now.  I can’t get a good reading on most vehicles on a ramp, so knowing the capacity is the only way to get anywhere close, before you back it off the ramps and do a check with the dipstick.



Good point about ramps. I built a shop with a level concrete floor but I usually park my vehicles on a gently sloped garage type floor. The difference on the dipstick level is pretty amazing. I can only imagine the frustration of ramps. Time for a lift ashful! My long arms allow me to change even the car oils from the side because I can't slide under so no ramps or lift yet.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 11, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Was reading that GM acceptable rate is 1Qt for 2000 miles. So 6 qts in 3000 miles would indicate something wrong. Ill be checking mine tomorrow as iv put about 3000 miles on since i had it changed to synth.  GMs v6 takes 6qts and all 8cyl engines take 8.5Qts of oil.



My 6.2 takes 6 qts, but it is 10 years old.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> My 6.2 takes 6 qts, but it is 10 years old.


The 6qts i was referring to was Medic21s post about his truck burning  6qts in 3000 miles. My wifes 6.2 Camaro is also 10 yrs old but takes 8Qts s according to the owners manual.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 11, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> The only reason I care about what the manufacturer thinks is the oil capacity is so that I buy enough oil for a change. Then I refill to the fill line and put the leftovers on the shelf. Are you folks really just dumping in what the book says it needs regardless of the dipstick reading?
> 
> 15 quarts in the 7.3 diesel BTW. Just the filter holds two quarts. Lots of oil remains in the engine during a routine O&F job.



Highbeam, I do just dump in the 6qts, because I've done it enough times that I know that brings me up to the full mark. I can do an oil change without ramps so the truck is level. My filter is perfectly vertical, so I take a hammer and a spike and puncture the bottom of the filter and let that drain until it stops, then I empty the crankcase.  I have a Fumoto valve in place of the drain plug just to make it less messy. I open the valve and give it about 1/2 hour to make sure it's completely drained. Then I dump what remains of the 6qts in the crankcase start the engine let it run for about 3-4 minutes, then wait a bit and check it, and it's always perfectly at the full mark not above it.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 11, 2020)

It appears that GM increased the oil change capacity in some models and not in others , not sure why. My manual clearly states 6 qts. Maybe in some performance cars like the Camaro, they wanted more oil. 8 qts in mine would way over-fill it. I suspect they modified the oil pan? Trucks with a higher clearance would not have room for the deeper pan.


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## SpaceBus (Feb 11, 2020)

It's most likely 4x4 vs RWD


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 11, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> I changed a lot of ford motors back in the late 90s For piston slap.  The difference was Ford said that’s not normal and fixed them under warranty and GM said it’s normal for a gas motor to sound like a diesel for the first 5 mins lol.


No excuse for any auto maker shirking their warranty obligations. Id be pissed too.


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## Ashful (Feb 11, 2020)

Highbeam said:


> Time for a lift ashful!


I've debated it, but I don’t work on hotrods anymore, and I didn't want to dedicate that much shop space to something that only gets used a few hours per year.  Back when I really should have had one, I couldn’t afford it!


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## bholler (Feb 13, 2020)

Ashful said:


> I've debated it, but I don’t work on hotrods anymore, and I didn't want to dedicate that much shop space to something that only gets used a few hours per year.  Back when I really should have had one, I couldn’t afford it!


I have a lift but currently no shop other than the business one high enough to install it.  Sooner or later I will pull the roof off of my automotive shop with 9' ceilings and add 4 or 5' to it so I can use the lift.  If that was all the building needed I probably would have done it by now.  But the back wall is pushing bad so it needs relaid to.  Fun fun fun.   You can usually find lifts pretty cheap if you aren't in a hurry.


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## Ashful (Feb 13, 2020)

bholler said:


> You can usually find lifts pretty cheap if you aren't in a hurry.


I just finished building my current shop in 2015, and already regret the decision to not add another bay, but the existing layout and my own limited imagination didn’t make that seem practical at the time.  In any case, I installed a second floor over both of the primary bays, so I’m limited to something like 8’-6” now.  That would mean a shortie lift, which would still be nice, but I‘ve been trying to keep the floor space flexible.  I’ve even sold off all of my 1000+ pound antique industrial woodworking machines, trading down the old industrial equipment for some newer and lighter commercial grade machines, so I can move stuff around and get cars and tractors in and out more easily.  Ever try to move a 2200 lb. table saw, or a 1200 lb. 9 ft tall band saw around the shop?    My old jointer was almost the footprint of a twin mattress, and my table saw was the size of a small car.

And to be at least a little on-topic, my shop is too shallow for almost any truck, regardless of engine.  I do my truck maintenance in the driveway, but being a newer truck, that’s really only oil changes and occasional brake work.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 13, 2020)

I get all my auto work done by a trusted reasonably priced local mechanic. My yearly bill is most likely less than the property taxes and other expenses would pay to dedicate a garage bay for car and truck repairs ,not to mention the time.  The older i get the less i want to be a part time mechanic.


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## Ashful (Feb 13, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> The older i get the less i want to be a part time mechanic.


The more experience I get, the more I fear letting “professionals” work on my cars.  If you have a trusted local mechanic, you are very lucky.  To often, I find stuff done wrong or half completed, when I receive one of my cars back from a major repair.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 13, 2020)

Ashful said:


> The more experience I get, the more I fear letting “professionals” work on my cars.  If you have a trusted local mechanic, you are very lucky.  To often, I find stuff done wrong or half completed, when I receive one of my cars back from a major repair.


My mechanic is my age. Old school. One of those guys that say ,you dont own me anything, it was just  a loose connection.  Once installed a new gas tank on my truck and billed me $20  labor. I supplied the tank at his request. On the flipside, there are lots of parts changers out there, even at dealerships , Its probably this or probably that. And you pay for their guesswork .


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## bholler (Feb 13, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I get all my auto work done by a trusted reasonably priced local mechanic. My yearly bill is most likely less than the property taxes and other expenses would pay to dedicate a garage bay for car and truck repairs ,not to mention the time.  The older i get the less i want to be a part time mechanic.


I enjoy working on vehicles.  As long as I don't have a deadline for it I find it relaxing.   We have a couple mechanics we trust and use mainly for work trucks that need fast turnaround.  But I do almost everything on my personal vehicles myself.


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## Medic21 (Feb 13, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> My mechanic is my age. Old school. One of those guys that say ,you dont own me anything, it was just  a loose connection.  Once installed a new gas tank on my truck and billed me $20  labor. I supplied the tank at his request. On the flipside, there are lots of parts changers out there, even at dealerships , Its probably this or probably that. And you pay for their guesswork .


There are times with Ford you have to change a part.  TSBs will be straight forward that if this code is present then change this.  After that if there are still problems you can diag.  They changed labor times that if it’s a TSB there are no diag times paid.  When your flat rate you just go with the flow lol.  

That said I do have known good parts for a lot of that so I can swap that and then diag if it doesn’t fix a problem.

On the other side of that I just ran a vehicle out that I had 12 hours of diag in.  Throttle position would not read.  Everything tested good in the wiring.  Changed parts and same problem.  It wasn’t until I went old school and isolated the wire out of the system and tried to use it to light a headlamp assembly did I find the problem.  Continuity was good until the circuit had a load on it, then it opened.  I lost my ass on this because Ford pays .8 hrs for a electrical diag.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 14, 2020)

I'm at the point in my life, that I don't enjoy working on cars especially in the winter. The salty slush dripping on me while I'm under the vehicle just isn't worth the little I save. That being said, I don't trust the quicky lube places either. My Chevy 1500 is a breeze to change, while my wife's Camry with it's cartridge oil filter is a PITA.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 19, 2020)

Well i spoke too soon about not having any problems with a recently purchased 2015 GMC truck . Not a major problem but ,keep getting a message that right front tire is low on air 28psi.  Tire is actually 38PSI. Getting annoying. I reset it but still get the same result. Whats the fix for this?


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## Gearhead660 (Feb 19, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Well i spoke too soon about not having any problems with a recently purchased 2015 GMC truck . Not a major problem but ,keep getting a message that right front tire is low on air 28psi.  Tire is actually 38PSI. Getting annoying. I reset it but still get the same result. Whats the fix for this?


Think that would be a faulty sensor.  Its inside the tire.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 19, 2020)

Gearhead660 said:


> Think that would be a faulty sensor.  Its inside the tire.


 I wont be messing with that for awhile. I can monitor my own tire pressure. One of those added features i can do without.  Ill be looking to disable the message for now.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 19, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> I wont be messing with that for awhile. I can monitor my own tire pressure. One of those added features i can do without.  Ill be looking to disable the message for now.



If you have a Discount Tire near you they have a machine that will erase the code, and reset the TPMS sensor. I have a message on my Chevy that says the tire pressure monitoring system needs service. Seems the batteries last about 10 years. It's about 280 to replace all four, so I think I'll wait as well.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 19, 2020)

Disabling the message can be done from the dash.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 19, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Disabling the message can be done from the dash.



I agree, but if it's a fault it'll come right back.


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## Ashful (Feb 19, 2020)

On some cars, the sensor is built into the valve stem.  I've replaced all four on our Volvo, three of the four went in rapid succession around 8 years of age.  It was as quick and simple as threading the old stem off the rim and the new one in, no tire removal required.

Actually, full disclosure, I had it done at the dealer... the car was already there for timing belt.  But the rest of the story is true.


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## bholler (Feb 19, 2020)

Ashful said:


> On some cars, the sensor is built into the valve stem.  I've replaced all four on our Volvo, three of the four went in rapid succession around 8 years of age.  It was as quick and simple as threading the old stem off the rim and the new one in, no tire removal required.
> 
> Actually, full disclosure, I had it done at the dealer... the car was already there for timing belt.  But the rest of the story is true.


Most are now part of the valve stem but I have never seen one that could be serviced with the tire on the bead.


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## bholler (Feb 19, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Well i spoke too soon about not having any problems with a recently purchased 2015 GMC truck . Not a major problem but ,keep getting a message that right front tire is low on air 28psi.  Tire is actually 38PSI. Getting annoying. I reset it but still get the same result. Whats the fix for this?


Our van is blinking the tire icon at us also indicating a fault.  It will wait till we need tires the fronts need replaced soon I hope it is a front sensor


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## Medic21 (Feb 19, 2020)

You can try to inflate the tire to get the light off then deflate it down to where it has to be.  Sometimes if it’s within the % plus or minus the light will stay off.  I know mine is 10psi in my truck.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 19, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> You can try to inflate the tire to get the light off then deflate it down to where it has to be.  Sometimes if it’s within the % plus or minus the light will stay off.  I know mine is 10psi in my truck.



Mine are part of the valve stem, but at $70 a pop installed, I too can wait.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 19, 2020)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Disabling the message can be done from the dash.



I actually can't clear mine from the dash, but it's also 5 years older.


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## Medic21 (Feb 19, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> Mine are part of the valve stem, but at $70 a pop installed, I too can wait.



mid you can break the bead yourself you can change them. All you need to do is break it at the valve stem and use a c-clamp to open it enough to get it to it. Break it off and pull the new one through the valve stem hole. I have done a bunch with a bead breaker on the vehicle.

If you use an OEM sensor it’s just a matter of training them after the new one is installed.


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## Sodbuster (Feb 19, 2020)

Medic21 said:


> mid you can break the bead yourself you can change them. All you need to do is break it at the valve stem and use a c-clamp to open it enough to get it to it. Break it off and pull the new one through the valve stem hole. I have done a bunch with a bead breaker on the vehicle.
> 
> If you use an OEM sensor it’s just a matter of training them after the new one is installed.



How do you train them, or will the computer just start picking up the new signal?


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## Medic21 (Feb 19, 2020)

Sodbuster said:


> How do you train them, or will the computer just start picking up the new signal?


Most tire stores and or dealerships will do that free of charge.   Some newer vehicles will pick them up on their own.  My 16 RAM does when I rotate tires.


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## Ashful (Feb 20, 2020)

bholler said:


> Most are now part of the valve stem but I have never seen one that could be serviced with the tire on the bead.


Breaking the bead is easy, it’s getting the tire off the rim that I don’t want to try at home.  Most home mechanics should be able to break the bead, get a hand in there, unthread the valve stem and replace the sensor, without having to remove the tire.


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## Medic21 (Feb 20, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Breaking the bead is easy, it’s getting the tire off the rim that I don’t want to try at home.  Most home mechanics should be able to break the bead, get a hand in there, unthread the valve stem and replace the sensor, without having to remove the tire.


You don’t need to remove the tire on a Chevy.  It’s mounted to the stem.  C clamp to push it in and out of the way.


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## bholler (Feb 20, 2020)

Ashful said:


> Breaking the bead is easy, it’s getting the tire off the rim that I don’t want to try at home.  Most home mechanics should be able to break the bead, get a hand in there, unthread the valve stem and replace the sensor, without having to remove the tire.


Yes I know that


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## peakbagger (Feb 20, 2020)

I have winter rims for snowtires. I elected not to install TPMS sensors in the winter rims. An appropriately placed piece of electrical tape blocks the warning light on the dash. I remove it when I switch rims in the spring.


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