# Hooking up the Quadrafire 7100 and heat zone kit



## ymurf (Jan 5, 2013)

I hooked the heat zone kit in the basement tonight but never did find any B-Vent pipe to run for the air so I went to lowes and bought some insulated flex pipe. You guys think this will be ok? Need to cut a little more clearance in the floor though. I ran a 6" non insulated pipe through the floor and hooked the flex duct to that..Not sure how hot this pipe will get but maybe I should give it an inch or so clearance with maybe a 6" fire stop? You guys see anything I am doing wrong please let me know.


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## Village Idiot (Jan 6, 2013)

I am curious to know how well the heat zone works. After a lot of agonizing over it, I opted to pass on installing them.

Look at page 60 of the QF7100 install manual, and the suggested minimum clearances for the B-vent are listed. There should be 1" clearance around the duct.

While the insulated flex pipe may work, I am concerned about the code compliance aspect of it. My inspector was pretty thorough making sure the install complied the manufacturer's instructions. He even cut a hole in the drywall above the mantle area to double check the pipe that was closed in prior to inspection.

Then there is the whole insurance thing. Any deviation from the manufacturer's requirements may give them a reason to refuse to insure. Or, perish the thought, if you have a fire (related or unrelated to the flex duct) they may use your not using the specified ducting as grounds to refuse a claim.

I am certain that you are anxious to get everything closed in and finished, but this is a scenario where I would err on the side of caution and source the proper B-vent. You will know that the install was done right and everything should be good.


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## steelstring (Jan 6, 2013)

The folks at Lowe's didn't know what b-vent was when I asked!    I agree with Village Idiot.  As discussed on the other thread, I would go with b-vent as much as possible and use the metal flex pipe (not the aluminized plastic) where you have to and where you have significant clearance.  I don't think I would use the insulated HVAC flex duct, as it has a 3mil plastic interior which is not going to be able to handle the potential heat from a fireplace.  It is designed for furnace temps, which are not really that hot.  I would be afraid it would degrade over time.

Check your local plumbing supply house for the b-vent.  They will have it.


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

ymurf, I agree with steelstring and VI......I used all metal ducting off of my NZ3000 (which is pretty much the exact same concept you have going here).  Also, make sure you have an anti-backdraft damper installed where your zone piple comes out of the stove.  I know you are taking the pipe downstairs, but you will get residual heat that will try and lay in the "trap" area of your zone pipe ( the area directly above the stove where your duct bends to go down) and there will be a LOT of heat there.....more than enough to cause problems with a plastic duct liner.  Go the extra mile and put metal flex pipe in, at least for the first portion of the install right off of the stove...


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## ymurf (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok guys,I pulled the plastic flex pipe off.Made a phone call to a friend of mine that works at a heat and air conditioner place.Says he can get me B-Vent through his distributor in St Louis.So I will just have to wait a couple days. Ill order it after work tomorrow.Just not worth taking a chance.


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

ymurf said:


> Ok guys,I pulled the plastic flex pipe off.Made a phone call to a friend of mine that works at a heat and air conditioner place.Says he can get me B-Vent through his distributor in St Louis.So I will just have to wait a couple days. Ill order it after work tomorrow.Just not worth taking a chance.



Atta boy....you'll thank yourself in the long run.
Keep those pics coming as the project progresses....


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## ymurf (Jan 6, 2013)

You guys think it would be of to use metal flex pipe where it comes out of the fireplace to make the turn down and run the B-Vent from there through the floor?


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

I would use the metal flex pipe.  Go to my fireplace thread so you can see how I did my ducts.


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

Anything that is touching that stove surround should be non combustible,  if for nothing else just to be safe.  What does the Quad 7100 manual say in regards to the heat ducting?


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## steelstring (Jan 6, 2013)

The Quad manual only mentions B-vent.  I think that the flex is fine to make the turn, then you should go with b-vent, as you are suggesting.  Be sure you keep combustables a far away as possible.


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

You guys have me confused, b-vent is flue pipe for gas appliances, isn't it?  I cant understand why you would be using b-vent for ducting heat out of the surround......maybe I missed something?


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## steelstring (Jan 6, 2013)

Yep, it is  for venting flue gas.  I think it is a bit of overkill myself.  The manual states that b-vent is required for the heat zone piping.  I complied in my installation, mostly, and used b-vent for everything except in one spot where i needed the flex pipe to make the connection. 

I spoke with two installers that use the metal flex pipe for the entire heat zone run.  I'm not comfortable with that, due to the potential for high heat and, well, the fact that it is against the manufacturers recommendations!


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## ScotO (Jan 6, 2013)

steelstring said:


> Yep, it is for venting flue gas. I think it is a bit of overkill myself. The manual states that b-vent is required for the heat zone piping. I complied in my installation, mostly, and used b-vent for everything except in one spot where i needed the flex pipe to make the connection.
> 
> I spoke with two installers that use the metal flex pipe for the entire heat zone run. I'm not comfortable with that, due to the potential for high heat and, well, the fact that it is against the manufacturers recommendations!


 Well, if the manufacturer calls for it to be used, you have to use it!  I agree 100%, because if you were to NOT use it and, God forbid, have a fire, you'd be screwed because the unit would not be up to code...


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## ymurf (Jan 6, 2013)

Thats what my quadrafire manual states. Use B-Vent only..I will order enough to go through the floor with 1" clearance. When I had the heat zone on last night the uninsulated pipe where it went through the floor was hot enough to be uncomfortable to lay your hand on it.


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## Dairyman (Jan 6, 2013)

Keep the pics coming ymurf, looking good.


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## steelstring (Jan 6, 2013)

ymurf said:


> Thats what my quadrafire manual states. Use B-Vent only..I will order enough to go through the floor with 1" clearance. When I had the heat zone on last night the uninsulated pipe where it went through the floor was hot enough to be uncomfortable to lay your hand on it.


 
I think that's wise. I hope my heat zone gets that hot when I get the facade on the front of the unit! Keeps us posted on your install. You and I are about at the same stage with our fireplace installs.


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## ScotO (Jan 7, 2013)

I expect pics and full reports from both of ya!! 

Keep up the good work, ymurf...do it the right way the first time, and you'll never lose sleep over worrying about the install..


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## ymurf (Jan 7, 2013)

Cant beat that..I went to the heating and air place after work.He had a 5' long B-Vent in 6" that was laying in the back. He gave it to me.Free. I ordered a collar for it to put where it goes through the floor to keep it from getting against the floor. He doesn't install fireplaces and just didn't understand why it needed B-Vent. He just cant see it getting that hot but since it said to use B-Vent I should use it.


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## ScotO (Jan 7, 2013)

That's my favorite price......FREE!!


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## steelstring (Jan 7, 2013)

Free is good!


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## daleeper (Jan 7, 2013)

Peace of mind -

Priceless.


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## ymurf (Jan 7, 2013)

Now this looks better. And safer.


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## steelstring (Jan 7, 2013)

Yep.  I like the looks of that much better!


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## Village Idiot (Jan 8, 2013)

+1 on the B-vent. over the years, you will hear lots of pops, creaks, and other noises that will make you take pause and wonder if there is something wrong with the stove. As long as the install was done to manufacturer's specs, you can be sure the noises are just the stove telling you it is doing its job. (It is really not a good idea to anthropomorphize you stove. They don't like it when you do that.)

How is the auxiliary return air ducting to the basement working? I can see that you have the return air lever in aux mode.


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## ymurf (Jan 8, 2013)

I haven't got to use the aux return duct much yet. I am hoping with the return and the heat zone duct in the basement it will keep it warm.


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## humpin iron (Jan 19, 2013)

Sorry I am late to the party and am going to be a wet blanket but.........I have installed approx 50 7100's.  Your install has many issues, 1) can NOT use mylar duct for OAK to chimney, must be metal.   2) MUST-MUST-MUST use full B-vent for heat zone kit.  In testing at 20+ feet away the duct got over 220 degrees, that lead to the requirement of B-vent.   3) Heat zone kit is fan dependant, if you didn't get the fan kit then you didn't get the full heat zone kit, duct work CAN NOT go down, if you lose power and run the stove the duct will overheat and cause a fire, this problem is make far worse if you did not use full b-vent.  Please go back and restudy the duct design in the LATEST install manual for a 7100.  All duct work must be horizontal or up, never down!    4)  The octogon elec box on the back wall must be moved, it is illegal to bury any elec box that can not be accessed.    5) All of that b-vent must have 1" of clearance to combustables.       Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  Please restudy the install manual.


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## ymurf (Jan 19, 2013)

humpin iron said:


> Sorry I am late to the party and am going to be a wet blanket but.........I have installed approx 50 7100's. Your install has many issues, 1) can NOT use mylar duct for OAK to chimney, must be metal. 2) MUST-MUST-MUST use full B-vent for heat zone kit. In testing at 20+ feet away the duct got over 220 degrees, that lead to the requirement of B-vent. 3) Heat zone kit is fan dependant, if you didn't get the fan kit then you didn't get the full heat zone kit, duct work CAN NOT go down, if you lose power and run the stove the duct will overheat and cause a fire, this problem is make far worse if you did not use full b-vent. Please go back and restudy the duct design in the LATEST install manual for a 7100. All duct work must be horizontal or up, never down! 4) The octogon elec box on the back wall must be moved, it is illegal to bury any elec box that can not be accessed. 5) All of that b-vent must have 1" of clearance to combustables. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Please restudy the install manual.


So I need to get the metal flex for the cold air on the chimney?
Was wondering if I could run metal flex on the turn to go down.Seen others on here do it.So I should buy B-Vent elbows?
On the heat zone manual I downloaded they show ways to run the duct and they have a picture of a duct going down to a lower level? Is this not right? Here is the link.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...DMESt8kpTGkk2-3gPzIdcYw&bvm=bv.41248874,d.aWM


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## ymurf (Jan 19, 2013)

Anyone check the link with the heat zone manual? Looks like a duct going downstairs. If this is dangerous I will remove the heat zone kit.


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## Village Idiot (Jan 20, 2013)

It looks like you have found another inconsistency in the Quadra-Fire 7100 documentation. You found an issue with the instructions for the OAK (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/questions-for-quadrafire-7100-owners.101715/#post-1311632).

At this point, I would suggest reaching out to the manufacturer for the definitive answer on how to run the heat zone ducting. Do what they say and have the confidence that your install is correct. Go out on your own and you are on your own.

Other than that one image you show (found in both the heat zone manual and the 7100 install manual), I cannot find any others that show them running down. Here are screen grabs from the Quadra-Fire 710 promotional brochures. The newer one shows just the heat zone ducts. Neither show running the heat zone ducting to a lower level. The blue ducting in the older image is the cold air return (B1, B2) and the OAK (D).


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## ymurf (Jan 20, 2013)

Village Idiot said:


> It looks like you have found another inconsistency in the Quadra-Fire 7100 documentation. You found an issue with the instructions for the OAK (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/questions-for-quadrafire-7100-owners.101715/#post-1311632).
> 
> At this point, I would suggest reaching out to the manufacturer for the definitive answer on how to run the heat zone ducting. Do what they say and have the confidence that your install is correct. Go out on your own and you are on your own.
> 
> ...


Who would I contact for a final answer on this? Hearth and home?


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## ymurf (Jan 20, 2013)

I sent Hearth and Home an e-mail on this question. Ill let you know what they say if I hear back.


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## ymurf (Jan 22, 2013)

I got an e-mail back from hearth and home.Looks like it is fine to run a heat zone kit down.Here is what they e-mailed me.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Because we want your appliance to be installed safely and according to the
correct installation specifications, local and national codes, we recommend
that you work with your local dealer. Addressing very specific dimensions
and clearance requirements can be difficult by phone and email.

Yes, you may run your HEAT-ZONE-WOOD down.

Your local dealer can best meet your needs based on your specifications and
home. We ask that your dealer contact us if further assistance is needed.

For assistance finding a local dealer click on link below:

United States & Canada:

Harman: http://www.harmanstoves.com/wheretobuy.asp

Heatilator: http://www.heatilator.com/dealerLocator/USCanada.asp

Heat & Glo: http://www.heatnglo.com

Quadra-Fire:Internal Code: CSDL


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## iron (Oct 7, 2015)

Village Idiot said:


> How is the auxiliary return air ducting to the basement working? I can see that you have the return air lever in aux mode.



^ ditto


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## ymurf (Oct 7, 2015)

iron said:


> ^ ditto


I used it all last winter like that and had good results. Seemed to circulate the air pretty good and on real cold days I would kick my furnace on just the blower and it circulated even better.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 26, 2015)

Sorry of the late reply. I have been traveling a lot.

So, how does the AUX air return ducting to the basement work? Meh. It does not help warm the basement. Which is the expected behavior since warm air does not like to go down. However, after some testing, I would say that it does give me a little boost. The basement seems to stay around 64-65 with the air on the AUX setting and 60 with it in the normal setting pulling air from the vent in the bottom of the fireplace.


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## ymurf (Oct 26, 2015)

Village Idiot said:


> Sorry of the late reply. I have been traveling a lot.
> 
> So, how does the AUX air return ducting to the basement work? Meh. It does not help warm the basement. Which is the expected behavior since warm air does not like to go down. However, after some testing, I would say that it does give me a little boost. The basement seems to stay around 64-65 with the air on the AUX setting and 60 with it in the normal setting pulling air from the vent in the bottom of the fireplace.


The idea of it is the heat zone duct puts heated air to the basement that the aux return takes.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 27, 2015)

ymurf said:


> The idea of it is the heat zone duct puts heated air to the basement that the aux return takes.


Understood. But, after researching the reported effectiveness of the heat zone kits and knowing that heat excited about moving down, I opted to just do the return AUX air to the basement. I preferred to keep the heat in the main living areas of the house.

Once the fire is going, a convection loop starts that moves the warm air to the upstairs and brings the cold air down. It has worked out well enough that the temperature difference between the downstairs and the upstairs room furthest from the fireplace is only 4 degrees.


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## iron (Oct 27, 2015)

pardon my ignorance (still new to this stuff): where does the AUX air return normally get installed for this unit? 

i will be having a heat n glow northstar installed in 2+ weeks, also with the heat zone kit to the basement. so, this is of great interest to me


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## Village Idiot (Oct 27, 2015)

Look at the first picture in post #29. The AUX air return options are the blue ductwork labeled B1 and B2.

The recommended heat zone locating options are in purple and labeled C. Note that I said "recommended" since the diagram is from the install manual for the QF 7100 and those are the recommended options in it. Earlier someone said that they contacted Hearth & Home and they said you could run your heat zone down. You get to decide how you want your heat zones installed as long as it is according to code to keep the insurance folks happy.


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## iron (Oct 27, 2015)

thanks. it looks like B2 is either going to another room or drawing outside air. i guess in my mind, i'm just making sure that you don't need to use outside air like with fireplaceX and posi-pressure systems. 

if you're given a choice (within the code or MFR's recommendations) to source your air far from the unit, that seems like it would promote the best kind of air circulation, correct? you went down to your basement and presumably placed both the heat zone supply and make-up vents at or near the floor, correct???


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## Village Idiot (Oct 28, 2015)

First, I opted to not install heat zones and it worked out well for us. We designed our house with the fireplace in mind. Natural convection moves the heat better than we could have hoped. Your situation may be different.

My goal for running the return air to the basement was to ultimately run the duct to another location on the main level with the fireplace to better circulate the air. But, our floorpan ended up being such that it was not needed.


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## iron (Oct 28, 2015)

so do you, or others, think it would make more sense to just do one or the other if going to a basement? either, run the return air to the basement OR the heat zone? would doing both be incrementally better or would it negate the circulation of cold-to-warm?


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## iron (Oct 28, 2015)

also, i just looked at the installation instructions for the heat n glow northstar (my eventual unit) that is supposedly very similar to the 7100. it looks like they do not have B1 and B2 diagrammed anywhere. it only appears to have one option for the outside air kit.

i talked with my future installer and he said that they will need to install the air kit to the outside to meet code. so, is it not possible for me to also have a cold air return in the basement? is there only source of supply air?


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## Village Idiot (Oct 28, 2015)

I am not sure I can give a good answer to your question on the efficacy of running the return air and/or a heat zone down to the basement. I can only say that running the return air to the basement hasn't really done much for me. Since my installer did not charge me extra for it, I am out nothing hence my earlier statement of "Meh."

In the diagram I have been referencing, D is the outside air kit. The remote air return is a separate duct. It sounds like you are quickly approaching the point I was at when talking to my installer. After having poured over the installation instructions multiple times, I knew way more about the product and installation options than they did. It took a lot of patient insistence that I was correct and sitting with them to show them what I was saying. Ultimately they admitted that I was more knowledgeable about the options and took my word for it.

I made sure that I was home during the installation so I could answer their questions and interpret the installation manual for them. I also insisted on running the wiring for the blower and switches since I used to do electrical work in a former life.

At this point, my best advice is for you to become an expert on your fireplace, the installation manual, and any code issues that you may encounter. Then take the time to convince your installer that you know what you are talking about and insist on getting the install the way you want it. (As long as you are complying with code.) Then be there during the installation. The workmen doing the install, were all to ready to give up on the specialized install options and give up.


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## mminor (Oct 31, 2015)

Hi Iron - congrats on your Northstar purchase - I will most likely be getting one as well.  Members have nothing but positive feedback about this ZC fireplace, so I don't think we'll be disappointed.

As far as chimney pipe, are you going with the SL300 or the Duravent DuraPlus triple wall? 

Thanks,
Matt


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## iron (Oct 31, 2015)

i wish i had an answer to that. i'm going with whatever the installer is bringing! his default answer is to use what's in the installation manual. the manual shows SL300 series pipes. do you think the duravent triple wall is better?


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## mminor (Oct 31, 2015)

The Northstar manual says there are only two options for chimney pipe with this unit - SL300 or the DuraPlus triple wall.

I believe the DuraPlus is better chimney pipe because it is insulated better (one layer of insulation and one layer of cooled air) - it'd be great if the experts could chime in. But how much better versus the air cooled SL300 I'm not sure.  And one thing is certain - the DuraPlus is quite substantially more expensive which is why most installers (and customers) go with the SL300 I would imagine.  One other point to note is the DuraPlus will use more real estate in the chimney chase.  The Northstar uses an 8-inch pipe and the DuraPlus's 8-inch pipe comes out to 12-inches in 'total diameter' because of the added layer of insulation....if that makes any sense.

You can search 'SL300' and I think you will find many others have used it with good success so I wouldn't get too worked up about it. 

Congrats again on your Northstar and take some pictures for us on the forum!

Matt


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## kst8er (Jan 26, 2016)

ymurf said:


> I used it all last winter like that and had good results. Seemed to circulate the air pretty good and on real cold days I would kick my furnace on just the blower and it circulated even better.


ymurf, after running at least part of another winter, are you still happy with the heat zone setup in the basement?  I'm considering a Quad 7100, and like you, I'd like to run a heat zone to the basement, directly below the fireplace.  I would likely pull the aux air from the basement as well.


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## jad5805 (Mar 9, 2018)

This Forum has been very helpful. I purchased a 7100 and am having it installed shortly in new construction. I asked the installer and he thought the Heat Zone right to the basement would not make much of a difference vs. not having it done at all. Does anyone else have any feedback on whether this would be worthwhile?


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## begreen (Mar 9, 2018)

How large is the basement area to be heated? How well insulated is it?


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## jad5805 (Mar 9, 2018)

begreen said:


> How large is the basement area to be heated? How well insulated is it?


Basement will be approximately 1400 sq ft. It will be unfinished at first. I was hoping to have my installers stub in the heat zone near the center of the basement to provide some heat for where I plan to have a woodshop. I am not expecting to get the temperature the same as the first story but warm the area up a little. I will be insulating the exterior poured walls of the basement. When I eventually finish the basement I would like it to be able to heat a 400 sq ft rec. room.


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## begreen (Mar 9, 2018)

jad5805 said:


> Basement will be approximately 1400 sq ft. It will be unfinished at first. I was hoping to have my installers stub in the heat zone near the center of the basement to provide some heat for where I plan to have a woodshop. I am not expecting to get the temperature the same as the first story but warm the area up a little. I will be insulating the exterior poured walls of the basement. When I eventually finish the basement I would like it to be able to heat a 400 sq ft rec. room.


That's not too large an area. I'd go ahead with the plan to stub a feed into the basement. You'll get some benefit, especially once it's insulated.


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## jad5805 (Mar 10, 2018)

begreen said:


> That's not too large an area. I'd go ahead with the plan to stub a feed into the basement. You'll get some benefit, especially once it's insulated.


Thanks for the response! As this is new construction it will not cost much to have it installed from the start so I am going to go with it. It would be much harder to add later. Once I have a few months of use with the heat zone Ill come back here and let everyone know how it worked. This will be next winter when the house is done and it is cold enough outside to use.


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## begreen (Mar 10, 2018)

Cool, take some pics as the installation progresses.


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## Will43 (Dec 17, 2021)

any update on the efficacy of the heat zone kit.  I have two on my pioneer 2 C done with proper bvent pipe of less than 10 feet.  Air temp out of them is 80Deg F.   No way it is getting hot enough to require the bvent but what can you do.  Bvent is rated to 400F due to the aluminum liner but it won't get anywhere close to that on my unit.


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