# Safety Chain vs non Safety



## Tony H (Mar 21, 2010)

I have never used a saw with anything other than the standard low kickback safety chain and am wondering about the advantage and disadvantage of other chains and how to know if I should try it or what one.


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## gpcollen1 (Mar 21, 2010)

All I ever got out of safety chain was it taking a long time to cut through wood.  Regular chains = faster.  I count on myself for safety...


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## Nixon (Mar 21, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> I have never used a saw with anything other than the standard low kickback safety chain and am wondering about the advantage and disadvantage of other chains and how to know if I should try it or what one.


Tony , You have 8oo+ posts . I'm sure that You've read a lot on the subject of chains . The only way that You will know for sure about the other type of chains is to just try them . I've got this feeling that once You use a semi chisel ,or full chisel chain ,You'll wonder why it took so long to make the swap 
To Me safety chain is like using a dull knife . You'll start forcing it to cut and eventually it''ll come back to bite You.


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## LLigetfa (Mar 21, 2010)

Safety chain is a misnomer.  It is in reality only a reduced kickback chain.  There is no safety built into a saw that human stupidity cannot defeat.  You are the most important element of safety.  If you want safe, buy your wood C/S/D.


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## Tony H (Mar 21, 2010)

I guess a better question would be : What difference should I expect to feel when using the saw as far as kickback ?
I don't often have the saw kickback on me and even less often set off the chain brake. 
I do understand chisel chains are much more agressive cutting than the reduced kickback.

LLigetfa - Obviously using a chainsaw any chainsaw is not "safe" I am just using the Industry reference of anti/reduced kickback or safety chain to refer to the type chain being used.  Having worked in contracting and construction related industries for many years I understand the human element plays a huge role in preventing preventable injuries. I have witnessed several close calls and have seen a man shot across a room having encountered the wrath of a supercharged live capacitor due to not discharging and not practicing personal grounding able to prevent such damage. He was lucky and did live but I bet he never did that again.


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## smokinj (Mar 21, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> I guess a better question would be : What difference should I expect to feel when using the saw as far as kickback ?
> I don't often have the saw kickback on me and even less often set off the chain brake.
> I do understand chisel chains are much more agressive cutting than the reduced kickback.
> 
> LLigetfa - Obviously using a chainsaw any chainsaw is not "safe" I am just using the Industry reference of anti/reduced kickback or safety chain to refer to the type chain being used.  Having worked in contracting and construction related industries for many years I understand the human element plays a huge role in preventing preventable injuries. I have witnessed several close calls and have seen a man shot across a room having encountered the wrath of a supercharged live capacitor due to not discharging and not practicing personal grounding able to prevent such damage. He was lucky and did live but I bet he never did that again.



if your getting no kick back at all your running the saw right, so full chiesl will just fill like you have more power...a boost if you will...


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## Danno77 (Mar 22, 2010)

Tony, If you want me to stop by on my way up to Mukwonago, I'll bring Dad's MS250 with a semi-chisel so you can see the difference. Or just go get one for yourself. If you are comfortable with a saw there is no reason NOT to try it.


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## LLigetfa (Mar 22, 2010)

Are we still debating safety versus non-safety chain or are we now debating square chisel versus round chisel?  Maybe we should add skip chain in to the debate.

I've never used safety chain in my life so cannot provide anecdotal evidence.  What I do understand though is the theory.  Safety chain has sloped guard links that reduce the chain's raking ability.  The guard links also take up space needed for chips to clear.


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## Tony H (Mar 22, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> Tony, If you want me to stop by on my way up to Mukwonago, I'll bring Dad's MS250 with a semi-chisel so you can see the difference. Or just go get one for yourself. If you are comfortable with a saw there is no reason NOT to try it.


Thanks for the offer I think based on some of the helpful suggestion I will put a semi-chisel on the 250 and give it a try. You can still stop by for a beer if you want I am about 1 mile off Rt90 not far south of 43 . PM if you want.
Funny I was just up to Mukwonago got the Makita from the Home Depot last Friday.


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## Dakotas Dad (Mar 22, 2010)

I replaced the factory "low kickback" chain on my 359 with semi chisel, and other then it cutting faster, I noticed no real difference in what was involved in running the saw safely. But, I think I already ran/run safe so that's why I didn't notice anything. I think if you run your saw sloppy.. that's when the thing can get you, regardless of chain. Wear gloves. eye protection and head protection when felling. Chaps. always. Don't run the saw when tired. I know for a fact that 3 tanks of gas is my limit. I don't try for a 4th tank ever, no matter where I am in the pile.


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## Tony H (Mar 22, 2010)

Dakotas Dad said:
			
		

> I replaced the factory "low kickback" chain on my 359 with semi chisel, and other then it cutting faster, I noticed no real difference in what was involved in running the saw safely. But, I think I already ran/run safe so that's why I didn't notice anything. I think if you run your saw sloppy.. that's when the thing can get you, regardless of chain. Wear gloves. eye protection and head protection when felling. Chaps. always. Don't run the saw when tired. I know for a fact that 3 tanks of gas is my limit. I don't try for a 4th tank ever, no matter where I am in the pile.



Sounds like a new chain for me. I hear you about stopping when you get tired when I get tired cutting I will stop for a while and pick up / stack wood before starting again.


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## zzr7ky (Mar 22, 2010)

I keep the original safety chain in saw box for cutting stumps low, or the lower 6' of house yard trees.  Then I don't feel as bad when I hit nails, rocks, dog collar, etc...


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## Tony H (Mar 22, 2010)

zzr7ky said:
			
		

> I keep the original safety chain in saw box for cutting stumps low, or the lower 6' of house yard trees.  Then I don't feel as bad when I hit nails, rocks, dog collar, etc...



Good idea save the good chain. Dog collar ?


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## Clarkbar2311 (Mar 22, 2010)

I know I've used both the std safety chain and the more aggressive chain on my poulon pro cheapie and the difference is huge as far as how fast it cuts.


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## lazeedan (Mar 23, 2010)

The difference is huge. I personally prefer full chisel. I think in some ways they are safer. Do to the saw doing what you want it to with out feeling like you have to force anything.


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## Tony H (Mar 23, 2010)

Nixon said:
			
		

> Tony H said:
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I have a boiler and most of the time and posts were spent in the Boiler room so I have not read that much on the subject of chains. Think I might get by the Stihl dealer tomorrow and pick one up.


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## zzr7ky (Mar 23, 2010)

Hi - 

Yes - Cutting a tree in the yard I try to avoid the crotches that are sholder hieght and below because I've find more rocks, bottles, and the like.  I've also found dog collar chain in yard trees.  I guess some one just hung one up and left it...

ATB, 
Mike


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## webie (Mar 23, 2010)

Tony H said:
			
		

> Nixon said:
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FYI you will probably have to sign off On a liability form for this chain . Also depending on your dealer he may or may not have it . If he does have I bet you will have to ask for it as it wont be open to JON Q Public .
 On a flip side to this I actually have a reduce kick back chain On my one saw I use mostly for brushing  I think it doesnt hook up as fast and pop the chain off the bar.


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## savageactor7 (Mar 23, 2010)

Tony next time you sharpen that chain you can knock down those anti kickback side links and rakers with an angle grinder. That'll give you a feel of how regular chain feels...and you'll still have some low kick back advantage too. Yeah it's crude...but effective.


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## Dakotas Dad (Mar 23, 2010)

webie said:
			
		

> Tony H said:
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Ordered mine online because my closest dealer was out. He carries them, and had no problem selling me one, but didn't have any in stock and was not going to for a week. Was easiest to just go online.


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## Tony H (Mar 24, 2010)

Stopped by a Stihl shop today and talked with one of the owners who also does all the chains. He went thru the chains and explained the Semi chisel he has is a reduced kickback then he has the full chisel and orders skip shain on demand because he does not sell much and it's 700.00 a roll. For the 250 he did say full chisel is too much for the saw to handle power wise. Seems I am missing something with the different models of chain ......
the one I have is an RMC3 and I think I want an RMC does that sound right  I probably didn't have enough info on what I wanted when I was at the store. 
He also said I must have semi chisel because I bought a couple of chains from him, but of course they are the RMC3
He did point out the links that reduce kickback but did not say anything about a release form.
I also brought him a chain off the makita and he said he did not have any like that ? I have a dolmar dealer a mile from the house so he should be able to help me there.


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## JustWood (Mar 24, 2010)

Release form is spewed  hogwash!
Ever have to sign one when you bought a buck knife, gun,dirtbike,axe, Jack Daniels, Tripple whopper, or diamond ring? ;-)

I've never tried it on a saw that small but a full chisel,  half or full skip may work allright. A big factor in saw performance  if you go with full or semi chisel will be keeping your raker depth perfect.


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## smokinj (Mar 24, 2010)

ApproximateLEE said:
			
		

> Release form is spewed  hogwash!
> Ever have to sign one when you bought a buck knife, gun,dirtbike,axe, Jack Daniels, Tripple whopper, or diamond ring? ;-)
> 
> I've never tried it on a saw that small but a full chisel,  half or full skip may work allright. A big factor in saw performance  if you go with full or semi chisel will be keeping your raker depth perfect.



+1 on raker depth I could not understand "most people only do rakers ever 3 sharpening" I do them evertime. ( atleast check them) Full chisel is much harder to get perfect


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## Tony H (Mar 25, 2010)

I am not worried about a release form I agree they are BS. Although it's probably a good idea to have some sort of warning with diamond ring purchase and maybe even a breathalizer.
Good to know about the raker depth I had thought people sharpened them less often because they stayed sharp longer ..... not because it's inconvenient. What a surprise.


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## Tony H (Mar 26, 2010)

Stopped buy the dolmar guys shop and just brought in the original bar and the new chain the Home Deepo guy gave me. He asked if I was after a chain I said yes and the phone rang and he walked over to the chain rack as he was talking. When he set the phone down and set the chain down I asked what kind of chain it was expecting him to say reduced kickback yada yada but instead he said it's the best chain I have for the 6401 full chisel cuts way better than the original chain. He looked at the chain they gave me with it and said it looks like a POS never seen anything like it. 
 Well of course when I got home it wasn't long and I was ou,t in the garage putting the new chain on and boy does she rip it powered thru a few cuts in a 30" mulberry and some similar ones in oak way way faster than the safety chain. I could feel it really pull into the wood and throw out a huge amount of chips but I could also fell the kick when running thru some of those cuts that just start to pinch the bar at the end of the cut.
Like someone said earlier I don't think I could ever go back after seeing whan the full chisel chain can do.


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## btuser (Mar 26, 2010)

I've got a MS250 and the next chain I bought was non-safety.  It definately improved cutting performance to the point I was much happier with the saw.  The first two cords I cut had me thinking I should have bought a a bigger saw.  Once I switched to the non-safety chain it turned out to be just perfect.  Not a 10hr/day moneymaker, but for a homeowner burning 2-3 cords a year I'm very satisfied with what it can do.  A lighter, faster saw is definately nice.

I am however shocked at what my local Stihl dealer charged me to sharpen the chains.  $14/chain is too much.  At this rate I may as well buy new chains.


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## Tony H (Mar 27, 2010)

btuser said:
			
		

> I've got a MS250 and the next chain I bought was non-safety.  It definately improved cutting performance to the point I was much happier with the saw.  The first two cords I cut had me thinking I should have bought a a bigger saw.  Once I switched to the non-safety chain it turned out to be just perfect.  Not a 10hr/day moneymaker, but for a homeowner burning 2-3 cords a year I'm very satisfied with what it can do.  A lighter, faster saw is definately nice.
> 
> I am however shocked at what my local Stihl dealer charged me to sharpen the chains.  $14/chain is too much.  At this rate I may as well buy new chains.



Wow that is steep the Stihl guy I use charges 6.00 and the dolmar guy charges 6.80 , heck I think a new chain is about 22.00


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