# Sell me on the pros and cons of steel vs masonry chimney



## blucoondawg (Mar 24, 2013)

I have no experience with steel chimneys, my current chimney is a masonry chimney with a square flue, it is in bad shape and needs to be replaced, lining won't work as the problem is the concrete block cracking not the clay liners.  I have been told steel is better but I have no facts on that or real reason for it being better.  My current chimney is outside and would likely have to stay there at least until I remodel my home and add on.  My stove pipe exits my basement about 18" below grade and goes into the bottom block of a masonry chimney.  I would think for an inside application the steel may be preferable but I think outside the steel would cool faster than the block causing more creosote issues?  Anyways I would like some opinions on the 2 styles and why one is better than the other, cost or time to construct is not an issue, I am more concerned with the function of on vs the other.


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## dougand3 (Mar 24, 2013)

Class A chimney is insulated really well. With 1200*F flue gases moving through, you can put your hand on steel jacket for 10" or so. Flue cross section stays the same as flue exit - eg. 6" or 8" = better draft. Therefore, you can use shorter length than big 8"x12" masonry chimney.


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## lopiliberty (Mar 24, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> the problem is the concrete block cracking not the clay liners​


 That's one con.  Class A chimney pipe is stainless steel pipe that is double walled or triple wall depending on brand with a layer of insulation between the two which helps the flue gasses stay hotter longer thus reducing the condensing of flue gasses and causing creosote.  The inside is stainless steel which creosote usually doesn't stick to unless you are burning unseasoned wood or smoldering your fire. Because the chimney stays hotter is also improves draft.


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## jeff_t (Mar 24, 2013)

The SS also heats up faster.

I have seen thirty year old metal chimneys in much better condition than the masonry chimney I tore out of my house.


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## begreen (Mar 24, 2013)

A masonry chimney over say 30 yrs is going to cost more to maintain and it will be less efficient. I would sooner put up a good metal chimney and then chase surround it, than put up a masonry chimney, especially in areas where the earth likes to shake things up now and then.


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## BrotherBart (Mar 24, 2013)

Class A chimney heats up faster. But all it will take is getting bids for building a new masonry chimney and then bids for a good Class A stainless steel one. No contest.


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## blucoondawg (Mar 24, 2013)

I won't be getting bids on anything, I don't hire contractors unless I absolutely have to.  I know the SS chimney sections are expensive, I also know the material for a masonry chimney isn't overly expensive.  The steel chimney would go up faster obviously.  My biggest concern was I don't have experience with the SS chimney so I don't know how long they will last, I have seem many indoor masonry chimneys last a long time, I haven't seen much steel in my area so I didn't know how long it lasts, I don't want to go through the building of a chase and everything and then in 10 years have to tear my walls apart to replace a section of pipe.  I am sure this wouldn't be a problem it is just something I am unsure about.

I am not against using steel but I guess I wasn't really wanting to have to build a chase in my house right now, I need every inch of space I have available until I remodel and add on. but maybe that would be the smartest way to go about it.


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## fox9988 (Mar 24, 2013)

Some (Supervent), if not all Class A has a lifetime warranty.


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## blades (Mar 25, 2013)

AS no one has touched on this,   The appliances with efficiency ratings in the 90's do not provide a warming flow of heat constantly like the old standing pilot units used to. This allows condensation to build all year long in the masonry flues. This condensation is loaded with acidic byproducts of combustion which attack the mortar joints. This is what causes most masonry flue failures in recent years.  Depending on the appliance/s you will see plastic or ss pipe tips extending out of older flue systems, ( unless of course it was run out the side wall) top of masonry flue is sealed around pipes.  a lot of 60 year plus mortar joints need to be redone just because of mother nature. Out side blocks cracking suggests severe water migration likely from internal as well as external sources. Class three flue is only needed for solid fuel appliances, 90% oil/gas run on B pipes  either way the area consumed is less than a traditional masonry construction .


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## mellow (Mar 25, 2013)

If you ever have an earthquake you won't have to worry about the heavy masonry chimney crashing down.


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## HomeBruin (Mar 25, 2013)

I've never cleaned a masonry flue, but I clean my own steel liner.  Easy!  I used to disconnect my old stove and tape a plastic bag around the end of the flue pipe before running a brush through from top down (my pipe was inside a masonry chimney, no clean out T).  I now have a new insert and will be doing my first sweep soon.  Should be easier than ever, since I don't have to remove an elbow now!


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## Highbeam (Mar 25, 2013)

There is nothing superior about a masonry chimney except aesthetics with some of the really fancy brick installs. Whatever a masonry chimney can do, a steel chimney can do better. The steel pipe is cheap (compared to masonry)and fast to install. Lasts longer with no worry about mortar maintenance or recrowning. Is more efficient since it better maintains flow, velocity, and warmth with the superior insulation.

Why would anybody build a masonry chimney? Tradition or looks is my best guess.


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## Jags (Mar 25, 2013)

I like shiney steel better than earth tone blocks.

Blinking lights also entertain me.


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## Ashful (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm prep'ing to build a new two-flue chimney in 2014-2015, as part of a major renovation.  It will almost certainly be a masonry stack with stainless liners.


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## oldspark (Mar 25, 2013)

Steel is real, I just changed out my 30 year old block chimney a 1 1/2 yeas ago and I think steel is the way to go. for the reasons mentioned above.


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## peakbagger (Mar 25, 2013)

Next house will get insulated steel. Its hard to get good masons in my area and having battled flashing leaks and having to replace the top of my chimney due to acid attack on the flue tile from an high oil efficiency boiler, I dont want anything to do with masonary. If I want thermal mass, I would much rather spend it on storage.


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## begreen (Mar 25, 2013)

Right, if thermal mass is the goal then install a masonry stove.


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 25, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> I won't be getting bids on anything, I don't hire contractors unless I absolutely have to. I know the SS chimney sections are expensive, I also know the material for a masonry chimney isn't overly expensive. The steel chimney would go up faster obviously. My biggest concern was I don't have experience with the SS chimney so I don't know how long they will last, I have seem many indoor masonry chimneys last a long time, I haven't seen much steel in my area so I didn't know how long it lasts, I don't want to go through the building of a chase and everything and then in 10 years have to tear my walls apart to replace a section of pipe. I am sure this wouldn't be a problem it is just something I am unsure about.
> 
> *I am not against using steel but I guess I wasn't really wanting to have to build a chase in my house right now,* I need every inch of space I have available until I remodel and add on. but maybe that would be the smartest way to go about it.


 
Nothing says you have to build a chase unless you want it just for looks. You no doubt get a little bit colder than we do here but our chimney just goes up alongside the house and we have no problems with it. The danged thing is actually too short too so if one listens to the pros, our chimney should not work at all. Yet, we do not have a problem.


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## nate379 (Mar 25, 2013)

I grew up in Northern Maine and pretty much only metal chimney you see are on trailer homes. When I put in my stove my Dad asked me why I was putting in "that chit trailer house chimney". "It's what we use up here Dad... bricks are $$$$"


The Metal Bestos (I think that's what it is) is popular up here.  One lady I know ran the same chimney for almost 30 years before pulling it when they installed a new Blaze King.  Chimney was beat up a bit but was still safe to use.


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 25, 2013)

Ya, we've seen lots of them on mobile and also modulars. However, over the past 5 years or so I've noticed more and more of them running up along side of the house just like ours. Some really look odd because they put them way out from the wall to keep from putting any bends in the pipe going around the eaves. But, they work and work quite well.


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## nate379 (Mar 25, 2013)

I think it's just one of those "been using xyz for years and years so it must be that way".  The same that it's very rare to not have a basement down there, but up here it's not very common.  Most houses only have a crawl space.


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## chimneylinerjames (Mar 25, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Whatever a masonry chimney can do, a steel chimney can do better.


Well said.  Metal chimneys are safer, faster to build, require less maintenance and are simple to install.


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## webby3650 (Mar 25, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Why would anybody build a masonry chimney? Tradition or looks is my best guess.


Or lack of knowledge. Some people also think stone is the best because "thats the way dad always did it".


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## Highbeam (Mar 25, 2013)

I would call that tradition. We do it just cuz dats what we do.


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## blucoondawg (Mar 26, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> Nothing says you have to build a chase unless you want it just for looks. You no doubt get a little bit colder than we do here but our chimney just goes up alongside the house and we have no problems with it. The danged thing is actually too short too so if one listens to the pros, our chimney should not work at all. Yet, we do not have a problem.


 
Well, my current masonry chimney is outside, it is just bare block all the way up, nothing fancy, I was thinking if I used steel I would put it indoors up through the floor and ceiling/attic with a chase around it.  I don't know if I could use the steel chimney outside what would I do burry it in the ground?  I have never seen the steel chimney coming out of the ground most times when I see outdoor steel chimneys they exit the house through the wall above ground level.


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## Highbeam (Mar 27, 2013)

How about a window well?


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## dougand3 (Mar 27, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> if I used steel I would put it indoors up through the floor and ceiling/attic with a chase around it.


 
That is the best. No elbows - maybe 15* offsets in black pipe before you penetrate the ceiling/1st floor. Class A offsets or 15* or 30* can be EXPENSIVE.  Burying Class A would make a creosote factory and probably against mfg specs/codes. Class A has a 2" CTC - so inside chase can be 1 sq ft footprint. May just be a bump out in a corner.


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## Backwoods Savage (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh ya, having the stove in the basement can cause a problem there, but it can be overcome.


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## blucoondawg (Mar 27, 2013)

The window well would be a good idea, I didn't think of that, my grandparents had a steel chimney out there when they first moved the furnace to the basement, they had problems with it, I cannot remember anymore what the deal was but it may have been buried and  that caused a problem like was mentioned above.  That window well may be the way I will go, thanks for the idea.


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## Ashful (Mar 27, 2013)

If you go that route, do consider how you'll drain the window well in heavy rain / snow.  Some crushed stone in the bottom of the well, burying a perf pipe which drains to lower ground, is one of many ways to solve the problem.


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## blucoondawg (Mar 29, 2013)

I currently have 2 window wells on basement windows and don't have any problems with drainage.  Snow doesn't seem to accumulate much in them and they are under the gable end overhang so rain isn't terrible either.  I also have a wood door in the wall that I have a steel cover over and it only is a problem if the gutters clog.


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## DMbekus (Mar 31, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> I have no experience with steel chimneys, my current chimney is a masonry chimney with a square flue, it is in bad shape and needs to be replaced, lining won't work as the problem is the concrete block cracking not the clay liners. I have been told steel is better but I have no facts on that or real reason for it being better.


 

I would not disagree with the benefits of the steel. But in some instances the aesthetics of steel or vinyl chases is just disagreeable.  A well-built masonry chimney will last a very long time. They should not be used (or should be lined with ss) when 90+ appliances re vented thru them. Though most current 90+ are direct vent and do not need any chimney.  I don’t know the ins and outs of chimney fires, but I sleep well at night with a lot (well built) masonry between a chimney fire and my house.


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## blucoondawg (Mar 31, 2013)

DMbekus said:


> I would not disagree with the benefits of the steel. But in some instances the aesthetics of steel or vinyl chases is just disagreeable. A well-built masonry chimney will last a very long time. They should not be used (or should be lined with ss) when 90+ appliances re vented thru them. Though most current 90+ are direct vent and do not need any chimney. I don’t know the ins and outs of chimney fires, but I sleep well at night with a lot (well built) masonry between a chimney fire and my house.


 
This is the reason why I like masonry as well.  Most of the problem with mine is it wasn't done properly which caused problems from the start.  And I do prefer the look of the masonry over steel but steel is definitely easier and faster to put up.  I only use mine for the wood furnace so the other appliances isn't a concern for me.  Maybe I will do a masonry with a steel flue, have the best of both worlds?


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## DMbekus (Apr 1, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> . Maybe I will do a masonry with a steel flue, have the best of both worlds?


 
Don't often see new work done that way, but why not?  Other then higher cost of ss vs. clay


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## rideau (Apr 1, 2013)

Masonry is spending a lot for a look.  I'd put steel inside, straight up.  Really won't impact appearance of home from outside, then, will give best draft (likely not a problem if installed in basement, as presumably thus a long flue), is extremely easy to clean, essentially no maintenance, available with lifetime warranty (as above, plus ICC Ultrablack/Excel), pipe can be painted to match stove and very attractive, masonry wall can be built around pipe in stove room is you prefer traditional look, can also be built around exiting pipe if you prefer traditional look;  ICC is warranteed for two 30 minute chimney fires, which should let you sleep peacefully at night.  And, if you ever want to remodel or change stove locations, heck of a lot easier to move steel pipe than a masonry chimney:  and you can even reuse the pipe in your new location. 

Hands down, the best steel pipe manufactured is the way I'd go - the way I went.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 1, 2013)

Only problem with steel is its looks like crapola goin up the side of your house. Looks good inside but outside? Not so good.


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## Fins59 (Apr 1, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> I won't be getting bids on anything, I don't hire contractors unless I absolutely have to. I know the SS chimney sections are expensive, I also know the material for a masonry chimney isn't overly expensive. The steel chimney would go up faster obviously. My biggest concern was I don't have experience with the SS chimney so I don't know how long they will last, I have seem many indoor masonry chimneys last a long time, I haven't seen much steel in my area so I didn't know how long it lasts, I don't want to go through the building of a chase and everything and then in 10 years have to tear my walls apart to replace a section of pipe. I am sure this wouldn't be a problem it is just something I am unsure about.
> 
> I am not against using steel but I guess I wasn't really wanting to have to build a chase in my house right now, I need every inch of space I have available until I remodel and add on. but maybe that would be the smartest way to go about it.


 Coondawg - As far as longevity, I installed my Metalbestos SS chimney in 1979, and it is still going strong, and I burn 24/7.
  As far as placement, I have my chimney going up through a bathroom closet, that way the stove is in center of house. That's another advantage of steel, you can put them just about anywhere, no footings necessary.

I purchased mine from Wausau Homes when they had an outlet store.  $5 for a 30" section.  At the time I worked about 1/2 mile from that store and would go there every day and bought 1 or 2 sections at a time as they became available.  I got enough sections for my house and garage.  A few little dings in them but nothing serious.  Mine has a 7" diameter and works fine.
  They are easy to clean too.  Cleaned mine the other day, took 15 minutes.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 1, 2013)

blucoondawg said:


> I won't be getting bids on anything, I don't hire contractors unless I absolutely have to. I know the SS chimney sections are expensive, I also know the material for a masonry chimney isn't overly expensive. The steel chimney would go up faster obviously. My biggest concern was I don't have experience with the SS chimney so I don't know how long they will last, I have seem many indoor masonry chimneys last a long time, I haven't seen much steel in my area so I didn't know how long it lasts, I don't want to go through the building of a chase and everything and then in 10 years have to tear my walls apart to replace a section of pipe. I am sure this wouldn't be a problem it is just something I am unsure about.
> 
> I am not against using steel but I guess I wasn't really wanting to have to build a chase in my house right now, I need every inch of space I have available until I remodel and add on. but maybe that would be the smartest way to go about it.


IT dont really take that long to put up a masonry chimney. ANd they will last the life of the structure if done right. Iv seen one go up in less than 2 days.If mine were outside, i would definitely put up masonry,all inside perhaps SS.


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## Ashful (Apr 1, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> masonry chimney... will last the life of the structure if done right.


 
Not to pick nits, but our friends in Europe have shown us the life of a structure can be 1000+ years.  The three oldest chimneys in my house all required rebuilding or re-lining within the first 240 years.

Then again... I don't see many structures built today, which I expect will be standing in the year 3013.


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