# Ash or Norway Maple? Wood ID



## Razo (Apr 2, 2014)

I was offered this tree that came down on a friends property. I'm taking it no matter what and think it is ash. Then I just saw another thread where someone has Norway maple and it looks very similar.

I can KICK myself for not paying better attention to whether or not it has opposing branches. I didn't pay close attention to dead leaves on the ground either. This tree knocked down a small black birch on its way down and I'm taking that too. A lot of the smaller branches you see in the pic are the birch branches so they are of no help.

It splits fairly easy and it was bright white...it is a slightly different color in the pictures because it rained last night. I snapped these pics over my lunch break. I have a pic of the other side of those two splits but it was completely washed out/over exposed when I checked the pic back at work. I can take better ones tonight if need be. I included a pic to try and show the grain best as possible. I'm starting to think more and more that this might be maple.


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## gzecc (Apr 2, 2014)

Looks like norway to me.


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## bigbarf48 (Apr 2, 2014)

Maple. Brown splotch gives it away


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## Razo (Apr 2, 2014)

I can live with that, from what I'm reading it sounds like it has similar BTU's to Ash, slightly lower than sugar maple. safe to assume what I cut now will be ready for use 2 seasons from now?


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## bigbarf48 (Apr 2, 2014)

Yep 2 years will be fine


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## Woody Stover (Apr 2, 2014)

Razo said:


> safe to assume what I cut now will be ready for use 2 seasons from now?


Yes, but you will have to split and stack it as well....


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## Razo (Apr 2, 2014)

yes of course, split and stacked


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Apr 2, 2014)

Norway maple can be ready for next year if you do it soon and do it right....


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## weatherguy (Apr 2, 2014)

Get is split and stacked in a good spot should be ready next year, I have some I burned this year, very similar to ash as far as burning goes.


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## Razo (Apr 2, 2014)

Sweet I have a very windy spot that gets sun, I'm going to get it CSS asap.


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## BillLion (Apr 2, 2014)

Ram 1500 with an axe... said:


> Norway maple can be ready for next year if you do it soon and do it right....



I second this. LOVE Norway Maple!


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## Razo (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys! This makes me feel better about it not being ash.


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## Hickorynut (Apr 2, 2014)

I say ash.......


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## Pellet_Pete (Apr 2, 2014)

I'd have to agree with Hickorynut - it's a white ash.  Th brown butt staining (yes you read that right) is by no means unique to maple.  If you look at pic #3, you can see in the lower left of the stain by the growth rings that the tree suffered some injury when it was a 2-3" diameter sapling, which resulted in a lifelong infection and ultimately led to the staining we see throughout.  May have even contributed to its ultimate demise(?)  Brown heart aside, the bark screams white ash to me.


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## Wood Duck (Apr 2, 2014)

I think it is Ash based on the bark of the smaller rounds in the second picture. It doesn't matter much because as firewood Ash and Norway Maple are similar.


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## DougA (Apr 2, 2014)

Wood Duck said:


> It doesn't matter much because as firewood Ash and Norway Maple are similar.


Exactly!


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## Paulywalnut (Apr 2, 2014)

It is ash maybe green ash but ash.


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## PA. Woodsman (Apr 2, 2014)

Ash vote from me....


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## nrford (Apr 2, 2014)

Norway Maple for sure.


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Apr 2, 2014)

Where is BWS? He Is an ash connoisseur.......


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## Razo (Apr 3, 2014)

The mystery thickens! Maybe its a Norway Ash? Haha, I want to take a better pic of the grain side of a split and post it over my lunch break just for fun. I'm happy with it being either but I really like wood ID and hearing everyone opinions.


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## Applesister (Apr 3, 2014)

Shes a hot piece of Norway Ash. lol.
okay I just did a study. I have splits of white ash in the log hoop.
I have a Norway maple next to my driveway that someone backed into(bark has peeled).
And a Green Ash in the hedgerow between house and horsebarn.
My vote goes to green ash.
Too bad Maples and Ash both have opposite branching. 
But...Norway maple leaves last forever...Im raking mine right now. Go see if you can find some.


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## Applesister (Apr 3, 2014)

Its kinda true that the Ash and Norway maple are really close heat wise. 
It looks like some great firewood. By the growth rings it looks like over 100 yrs old.


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## Razo (Apr 3, 2014)

Good idea about the leaves, the ground was loaded with birch leaves while I was up there and I didn't take notice to any other type. I'll have to look when I go back up next Tuesday to start bucking the rest of it.

So here is a fresh round of pics for fun. Tried to get some close up of the grain. Doesn't help much I guess because Norway and Ash are so similar but maybe something in one of the pics will strike someone.


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## Razo (Apr 3, 2014)

And you mentioned Norway and Ash both have opposing branches? I didn't know that. I was going to look at the smaller limbs next week too to see if that would be definitive but now it sounds like even that won't help. Can't wait to look for leaves.


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## Applesister (Apr 3, 2014)

Im still sticking with Ash, because of the bark on the smaller limbs like someone said. And the thickness of the inner bark...the orangey tan. The inner bark is too thick to be Norway.
The splits display the growth rings.


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## PA. Woodsman (Apr 3, 2014)

Is there a pinhole on the flat cutside? That's usually Ash. And many times I've seen green moss grow on Ash like that; can't really say the same about Norway Maple and I have one in my backyard.


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## tsquini (Apr 3, 2014)

Norway Maple


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Apr 3, 2014)

To add to the plot, it looks like Norway, but not 100% sure.... I will send u pics of mine......


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## Ram 1500 with an axe... (Apr 3, 2014)

I've got this......
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 And only this.....
It has a nice beige color inside......


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## TreePointer (Apr 3, 2014)

Small branch/twig with buds and leaf scars will confirm species.


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## farmboy05 (Apr 3, 2014)

Don't mean to take over the thread, but I have the same question.


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## gzecc (Apr 3, 2014)

farmboy05 said:


> Don't mean to take over the thread, but I have the same question.
> 
> 
> View attachment 131145
> ...


 
Norway Maple


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## Razo (Apr 4, 2014)

Wow so Norway maple can either be orange inside or bright white the whole way through? 




TreePointer said:


> Small branch/twig with buds and leaf scars will confirm species



I'll give that a try next week, what am I looking for exactly?


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## gzecc (Apr 4, 2014)

Razo said:


> Wow so Norway maple can either be orange inside or bright white the whole way through?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think that orange your referring to is wet.


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## farmboy05 (Apr 4, 2014)

It was from a tree that blew over late last fall or this winter. Just found it as I was going through my grove (almost all soft (silver) maple in there, so I jumped on this like stink on ...) I'll take MM measurements this evening and edit this post to include the numbers I come up with. If there is even one knot in the round of this stuff it is WAY harder to split then my soft maple.

EDIT: The darker area must be because of moisture. The dark area tested at 50% and the lighter tested at 36%. Also, the darkness on the ends of a couple were starting to fade.


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## gzecc (Apr 4, 2014)

farmboy05 said:


> It was from a tree that blew over late last fall or this winter. Just found it as I was going through my grove (almost all soft (silver) maple in there, so I jumped on this like stink on ...) I'll take MM measurements this evening and edit this post to include the numbers I come up with. If there is even one knot in the round of this stuff it is WAY harder to split then my soft maple.


 
Norway maple is very difficult to split. Also is not easy to season. IMO, it must be left small in single rows for one complete yr.


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## Razo (Apr 4, 2014)

That's contrary to what 2 other users have said, they said Norway could be ready for next winter if split and stacked now. I just need to get a damn moisture meter already, I'm dragging my heels going to harbor freight, I would be amazed if my store even has it in stock. I don't even know what isle that would be in. That way I could just check it next winter, if its not under 20% then I know its not ready.


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## gzecc (Apr 4, 2014)

Razo said:


> That's contrary to what 2 other users have said, they said Norway could be ready for next winter if split and stacked now. I just need to get a damn moisture meter already, I'm dragging my heels going to harbor freight, I would be amazed if my store even has it in stock. I don't even know what isle that would be in. That way I could just check it next winter, if its not under 20% then I know its not ready.


 
I never burn a piece of wood that has been stacked less than 1yr.


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## TreePointer (Apr 4, 2014)

Razo said:


> I'll give that a try next week, what am I looking for exactly?



As we all know, bark and wood of different species often look similar, but buds and leaf scars almost always are very different.  It's a great way to ID trees when there are no leaves.  Click on the links below.  Carefully read the descriptions of the twig for each species.  There also are pictures of twigs that you may click on to enlarge.

Norway maple
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=6
White ash
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=46
Green ash
http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=48

If you really want to get into tree ID without leaves, this is a great little booklet:
Winter Tree Finder


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## Razo (Apr 4, 2014)

gzecc said:


> I never burn a piece of wood that has been stacked less than 1yr



Would you still not burn a split that was sitting for less than a year even if it was below 20% mc? It can be difficult to try and wait when you are first starting out and are far from a 3 year plan. If you have that luxury I guess its great but moisture content would be the bottom line wouldn't you agree? So if a split is checked and its below 20% then its good to go regardless of how long it has been sitting right? I understand sometimes moisture meters can be off, especially cheap ones. I guess its best to let it sit one year plus just to be safe. And go by the moisture meter if you are desperate and need wood before it has sat a full year.




TreePointer said:


> As we all know, bark and wood of different species often look similar, but buds and leaf scars almost always are very different. It's a great way to ID trees when there are no leaves. Click on the links below. Carefully read the descriptions of the twig for each species. There also are pictures of twigs that you may click on to enlarge.



Thank you for these links! I'm going to study them a bit


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## Razo (Apr 4, 2014)

So from what I'm reading it seems like Ash has leaf scars and twigs are a gray olive color, maples don't have leaf scars and the twigs are more brown


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## TreePointer (Apr 4, 2014)

Razo said:


> So from what I'm reading it seems like Ash has leaf scars and twigs are a gray olive color, maples don't have leaf scars and the twigs are more brown



There are maple leaf scars, but they aren't as noticeable as many other species.  The buds on a maple are clearly different from ash trees.  In fact, most maple buds are will be similar enough to other maple species that it's a good way to differentiate them from ash trees (and others).   This time of year the buds will be swelling, so size descriptions in tree guides may not be the best determinant.  The pattern and general shape of terminal and lateral buds will still be observable.

The leaf scar on the white ash is a good tell for the species.  It's a big white scar that smiles at you, and a bud sits in the smile.  The green ash leaf scar doesn't have the big smile of white ash leaf scars, and a bud sits on top of the scar.


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## nrford (Apr 4, 2014)

farmboy05 said:


> Don't mean to take over the thread, but I have the same question.
> 
> 
> View attachment 131145
> ...




I believe this one may be Black Ash.


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## tsquini (Apr 5, 2014)

farmboy05 said:


> Don't mean to take over the thread, but I have the same question.
> 
> 
> View attachment 131145
> ...


Ash


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## gzecc (Apr 5, 2014)

nrford said:


> I believe this one may be Black Ash.


Could be.


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## Woody Stover (Apr 5, 2014)

Razo said:


> moisture content would be the bottom line wouldn't you agree? So if a split is checked and its below 20% then its good to go regardless of how long it has been sitting right?


Besides the meter, you'll also start to get a feel for the heft of the splits. You can tell when they're _really_ dry (like 16%) pretty easily....the meter is more useful when the wood is still around 20%. Some splits will be wetter than others from the same batch, and that's where the heft test is useful, as opposed to re-splitting and testing a bunch of them.


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## Ralphie Boy (Apr 5, 2014)

Razo said:


> And you mentioned Norway and Ash both have opposing branches?



Remember this acronym: MAD Horse = *M*aple, *A*sh *D*ogwood and *Horse* chestnut  These  are the only hardwood trees with opposing branches.


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## husky345 vermont resolute (Apr 5, 2014)

Norway maple


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