# Who is using a regular generator with pell stove & how r u doing it.



## Mackdog (Nov 1, 2012)

We bought a generator yesterday.  It's a powermate 5000 watts 6250 surge watts.  I read it takes a lot less watts to use a pellet stove then space heaters.  We have a Harmon p68.  It's was quite pricey and we don't want to ruin.  It seems like there is a lot of different opinions about the whole regular and inverter generators.  Is anyone using a regular generator with their stove.  Are you just using a surge protector or do you use a line conditioner.  Does it not work at all or have people fried their control boards from trying it.  I guess I just can't understand why it wouldn't work and seeing some people that say it won't and other say it will.  Ay help would be appreciated.  We have space heaters but 2814 square feet and they take so much power they are on low and we are a bit cold.  We have kids and an elderly parent here.


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## bonesy (Nov 1, 2012)

You will probably get 2000 different answers to this. I lost power Monday night and all day Tuesday. My generator has a plug that feeds my panel box and goes to the entire home except my geothermal HVAC. The genny is a 8k running 10k starting watts Rigid with a Subaru motor. I ran my Big E in the garage all day with no issues and no weird noises. I say if you need heat, in an emergency, run it.

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician nor a pellet stove mechanic. I also DID NOT stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but I was WARM.


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## DirtyDave (Nov 1, 2012)

I use a cheep battery ups as a conditioner hooked on the surge side to stove.. our 4000/3500 genny is wired thru a line/gen box to fuse panel.  I have not had a problem personaly using this setup since 1999


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## P38X2 (Nov 1, 2012)

I would also like to hear some elaboration on this topic.

So far, I've heard enough bad things about these types of generators to only use mine on simple equipment; fans, lamps, coffee pots, etc.... basically expendable items.


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## MacP (Nov 1, 2012)

melkyleb2002 said:


> We bought a generator yesterday. It's a powermate 5000 watts 6250 surge watts. I read it takes a lot less watts to use a pellet stove then space heaters. We have a Harmon p68. It's was quite pricey and we don't want to ruin. It seems like there is a lot of different opinions about the whole regular and inverter generators. Is anyone using a regular generator with their stove. Are you just using a surge protector or do you use a line conditioner. Does it not work at all or have people fried their control boards from trying it. I guess I just can't understand why it wouldn't work and seeing some people that say it won't and other say it will. Ay help would be appreciated. We have space heaters but 2814 square feet and they take so much power they are on low and we are a bit cold. We have kids and an elderly parent here.


 I'm still trying to figure this out as well....


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## bonesy (Nov 1, 2012)

I powered my entire house with mine except my geothermal HVAC unit (genny can't handle the startup) with no issues. This includes stove, well pump, hotwater heater, microwave, coffee maker, lights, tv's, etc. Maybe if you leave it on it 24x7x365 there might be problems.

AND PLEASE everyone remember DO NOT run your generators indoors, in garages, etc. YOU WILL DIE!



P38X2 said:


> I would also like to hear some elaboration on this topic.
> 
> So far, I've heard enough bad things about these types of generators to only use mine on simple equipment; fans, lamps, coffee pots, etc.... basically expendable items.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Nov 1, 2012)

Try calling the manufacturerof the generator and asking technical support.


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## Murphy118 (Nov 1, 2012)

Seems that if you run your power from the genny through a conditioner, like a tripplite UPS, it will make condition the power from the genny so that all electronics will be happy happy,  no??

John


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## bonesy (Nov 1, 2012)

Murphy118 said:


> Seems that if you run your power from the genny through a conditioner, like a tripplite UPS, it will make condition the power from the genny so that all electronics will be happy happy, no??
> 
> John


As I stated in another thread, the basic gist of it (At least for APC BackUPS units) is that as long as there is constant power to the APC UPS and it is in an online state, it will provide pure sine wave power to whatever is plugged into it. APC recommendation is that the generator be sized 3-5 times of the entire load expected to be on the generator. So if all you want to do is run your pellet stove alone, figure out what 3-5 times the load is and size the generator accordingly. Also their disclaimer is that the BackUPS system is designed for computer type loads only. If the UPS switches back to battery, it is NOT providing pure sine but step-approximated power (specifically the APC BackUPS units). They have SmartUPS which do provide pure sine wave power whether on battery or not.


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## briansol (Nov 1, 2012)

Unless otherwise specified, most UPS's 'pass through' street power without touching it.  it's basically in pure bypass at 120v.  thus, a genererator acting as street power will also not be modified.   Assume that unless the manual says otherwise that this is the case.

I ran my stove on a regular genny for about 1 min last year before i shut it off due to the god-aweful noises it was making and whining.  I wouldn't even consider a modified sine wave device to power anything at my house that I care about/don't want to buy again in a few hours....  that doesn't have it's own ac/dc convertor (ie, a power-pack on a plug, or a psu as in a computer).  those devices will convert the power and can be run off modified sine without issue.    light bulbs?  whoe cares?   a $3000 stove?  not a chance.

your results may vary.


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## bonesy (Nov 1, 2012)

See my above post - directly from APC - their units (at least theBackUPS and SmartUPS) provide pure sine wave power to any device attached as long as the unit is in an online state. Doesn't matter whether the power is coming from the main, a generator, or a bunch of squirrels on a wheel. As long as the UPS is online, it's providing pure sine. The caveat is that what ever is powering the UPS is doing so with enough power so as the UPS doesn't keep switching back and forth between battery and AC.



briansol said:


> Unless otherwise specified, most UPS's 'pass through' street power without touching it. it's basically in pure bypass at 120v. thus, a genererator acting as street power will also not be modified. Assume that unless the manual says otherwise that this is the case.
> 
> I ran my stove on a regular genny for about 1 min last year before i shut it off due to the god-aweful noises it was making and whining. I wouldn't even consider a modified sine wave device to power anything at my house that I care about/don't want to buy again in a few hours.... that doesn't have it's own ac/dc convertor (ie, a power-pack on a plug, or a psu as in a computer). those devices will convert the power and can be run off modified sine without issue. light bulbs? whoe cares? a $3000 stove? not a chance.
> 
> your results may vary.


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## Cleetussnow (Nov 1, 2012)

I am running my enviro 55 from my generac 5500.  I have it on a high end surge device, with a$250,000 equipment damage guarantee on it.  The device is an enercell.  

When I refeul, i make sure all the surge protectors are off, so there is no load on the genny when I restart.  Also, I make sure the stove is done with its cycle before I shut it off.  It is stone cold when I shut off and start up.  

Not sure this is the right way, but it is the best way I know how.  No guarantee it will work for everyone, but I have been going for 3 days like this and everything works fine so far.  Controls work and remote works etc.


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## tractorman100 (Nov 1, 2012)

Ran my 10 year old Onan 6000 watt generator for 2 days this week. Not at night, though. Too noisy. Powered my Mt Vernon, new refrigerator, freezer,
Fios box, TV control boxes and 2 flat screens with no issues. I do have the electronics and the stove plugged into tripplite surge protectors. No worries!
Have the generator back fed thru the pole barn back to the main house. Keeps the fumes, noise and gas away from the house.


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## tsmith (Nov 1, 2012)

I have a 5000 watt connected to my panel box, it is running both my Quad AE and Harman Accentra without any problems. I do have a Tripp Lite surge protector on both stoves.


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## relxn88 (Nov 1, 2012)

"Stepped approximation to a sinewave" is what you get with APC backup or dirty in - dirty out. There are some generators that provide a pure sine wave and they will state PURE SINE WAVE in the specs. (my stove manual states specifically to use a pure sine wave signal to prevent damage) - I bought a ETQ gen and it has served me well. I'm not trying to advertise for ETQ, I can only speak on what I have.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Nov 1, 2012)

relxn88 said:


> "Stepped approximation to a sinewave" is what you get with APC backup or dirty in - dirty out. There are some generators that provide a pure sine wave and they will state PURE SINE WAVE in the specs. (my stove manual states specifically to use a pure sine wave signal to prevent damage) - I bought a ETQ gen and it has served me well. I'm not trying to advertise for ETQ, I can only speak on what I have.


Which stove do you have and what generator model?


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## fmsm (Nov 1, 2012)

I have a Generac XP8000E, this unit uses what Generac calls *True PowerTM technology* that provides clean, smooth operation of sensitive electronics, tools and appliances. Speaking with Generac they state that the power coming from my Generator compares to the utility company's power. All I know is my unit powers most of my house without skipping a beat, and that includes my pellet stove running perfect! I connect to a whole house transfer switch and then shut off a few breakers (hot tub) to not overload.


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## imacman (Nov 1, 2012)

tractorman100 said:


> ......Have the generator back fed thru the pole barn back to the main house. Keeps the fumes, noise and gas away from the house.


Here's hoping you switched off the main breaker in the house so no lineman on a pole somewhere doesn't get fried trying to get your power back.


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## P38X2 (Nov 1, 2012)

So are we talking spikes being the bane of delicate electronics? Does under-voltage cause damage?

Edit- just noticed the other thread where it shows the clipped looking waveform.


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## Mackdog (Nov 1, 2012)

I appreciate all the feedback.  Some of this stuff is way over my head but it still helps. We are still undecided as whether to try or not.  I don't not want to fry our stove but you can get pretty desperate when you are cold and miserable with no power.  I also was really naive about how much these generators suck gas.  It took us and few hours to figure out how to not blow thru the tank in 4 hours.  So those of you who mention a tripplite surge protector, where did you get it and is there a certain one that you all are getting?  I am also really interested to know about those of you using an inverter in your car to run the stove.  Someone at BestBuy was telling my husband about this.  The inverter is around $100.  I can't fathom how this would work but again, when you are desperate for heat if it won't ruin the stove then I'd try it.  After spending $669 on the generator and cords that we needed, we don't want to spend $500 on the battery backup at this time, if ever.  Now a special surge protector or conditioner or car inverter for $100 or less I can handle.  As I type I am happy to say our power came back on this afternoon.  I still want to solve all this before we ever lose  power again. Thank you!  I hope all without power get it back soon.


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## Mackdog (Nov 1, 2012)

DirtyDave said:


> I use a cheep battery ups as a conditioner hooked on the surge side to stove.. our 4000/3500 genny is wired thru a line/gen box to fuse panel. I have not had a problem personaly using this setup since 1999


 
Can I ask where you got your battery ups? Can you use this device if you aren't running the generator thru the house?


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## Mackdog (Nov 1, 2012)

http://www.pelletstovefires.com/pellet-stove-battery-backup.html
What do you think of this...anyone using this when the power is out?


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## MacP (Nov 1, 2012)

Briggs and Stratton states the following... "This unit has a total harmonic distortion of 3% to 6%. The unit can run electronics. Some consumers add a line conditioner to have the unit run cleaner still. That is up to each consumer and the products that will be run on the generator."

Submitted a question to CyberPower. Would my CP1350PFCLCD clean the power from a non-sine wave generator? Answer: "No, it likely won't even accept that as incoming power."

My conclusion is.... If I lose power and the stove MUST be fired up..... I will plug an extension from my power conditioner behind my TV to my CyberPower. My stove is currently plugged into the CyberPower. 

If I didn't have a power conditioner and needed heat, I'd do what I need to do. Fire up the stove or run the oil burner.

I'm not about to spend more money for a pure sine generator.


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## Jm15 (Nov 1, 2012)

My buddy works for a utility company and I asked him about this. He said the generator would be fine running electronics as long as it had started running and continues running the whole time. He said you get into trouble when the generator starts running out and as it comes to shut down it produces less amps (it doesn't just shut off instantly). Certain electronics needs these amps to run and can fry as they lose the amps. He explained why, but I can't explain it as well as he did. Basically he said if you just filled up the generator and it is running, put on the tv. Just make sure you shut it off before you turn off the generator. 

I'm not telling you what to do, but if I needed heat I would run the stove or at least try it. For full disclosure, I have my generator hooked into my panel and I would run my oil furnace if I needed heat. I wouldn't turn on my stove because I wouldn't need too.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Nov 1, 2012)

MacP said:


> Briggs and Stratton states the following... "This unit has a total harmonic distortion of 3% to 6%. The unit can run electronics. Some consumers add a line conditioner to have the unit run cleaner still. That is up to each consumer and the products that will be run on the generator."
> 
> Submitted a question to CyberPower. Would my CP1350PFCLCD clean the power from a non-sine wave generator? Answer: "No, it likely won't even accept that as incoming power."
> 
> ...



Generators produce sine waves...the issue can be voltage and hertz fluctuation that can damage items.  The higher quality the generator the better they are at minimizing the fluctuation.  Try running your generator through the UPS and see if it clicks on...you can also see the hertz and voltage the generator is producing.
When converting DC to AC this is when the terms pure,modified,step are important....UPS and inverters can be any one of these with pure sine waves being the best.  Some motors and power supplies will not tolerate modified or step sine waves very well.

This is my understanding of how this works.


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## SteveB (Nov 1, 2012)

IHATEPROPANE said:


> Generators produce sine waves...the issue can be voltage and hertz fluctuation that can damage items. The higher quality the generator the better they are at minimizing the fluctuation. Try running your generator through the UPS and see if it clicks on...you can also see the hertz and voltage the generator is producing.
> When converting DC to AC this is when the terms pure,modified,step are important....UPS and inverters can be any one of these with pure sine waves being the best. Some motors and power supplies will not tolerate modified or step sine waves very well.
> 
> This is my understanding of how this works.


 
+1


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## MacP (Nov 1, 2012)

Jm15 said:


> I have my generator hooked into my panel and I would run my oil furnace if I needed heat. I wouldn't turn on my stove because I wouldn't need too.



Perhaps this might be my best option as well.


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## Jm15 (Nov 1, 2012)

MacP said:


> Perhaps this might be my best option as well.


 
I did it for the hot water more than the heat. I can live with a cold house, but freezing cold showers is just too much. By the way, I have the same generator you have. I used it last year for the October snow storm. I didn't have it hooked into the panel at that t time, but the four outlets made it easy to keep the essentials plugged in. It did the job.


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## MacP (Nov 1, 2012)

Jm15 said:


> I did it for the hot water more than the heat. I can live with a cold house, but freezing cold showers is just too much. By the way, I have the same generator you have. I used it last year for the October snow storm. I didn't have it hooked into the panel at that t time, but the four outlets made it easy to keep the essentials plugged in. It did the job.



That's reassuring. Thanks! I just had my transfer switch installed this past summer. Thanks to everyone for clarifying this topic.


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## Mike D (Nov 1, 2012)

melkyleb2002 said:


> We bought a generator yesterday.  It's a powermate 5000 watts 6250 surge watts.  I read it takes a lot less watts to use a pellet stove then space heaters.  We have a Harmon p68.  It's was quite pricey and we don't want to ruin.  It seems like there is a lot of different opinions about the whole regular and inverter generators.  Is anyone using a regular generator with their stove.  Are you just using a surge protector or do you use a line conditioner.  Does it not work at all or have people fried their control boards from trying it.  I guess I just can't understand why it wouldn't work and seeing some people that say it won't and other say it will.  Ay help would be appreciated.  We have space heaters but 2814 square feet and they take so much power they are on low and we are a bit cold.  We have kids and an elderly parent here.



I ran mine from my generator with the stove plugged into a surge protector and it ran fine, no issues.  I was lucky to get power back today and the stove is running now with no side effects.  Be warm.


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## Trickyrick (Nov 2, 2012)

UGH....  OK guys lets look at this by what you want to plug in. 

You always here "never plug in sensitive electronics to generators or stepped sign wave power supplies".  Is this really a bad thing to do? 

Grab a computer or a cell phone charger.  Look at the back and check out the voltage of these things.  guess what?  they are DC.  This means that that have a huge range (90 - 150V or in some cased 240V) that they can convert to DC.  Same with the Hertz 50-60. 

Now generators produce a sine wave.  That is what they do.  Most generators need to run at 3600 RPM to get 60 hertz  Again this is what they do.....  Those really expensive inverter (true sine wave) generators that burn through 1 gallon of gas in 6 hours and have a nice eco mode, because they have an inverter that converts whatever the generator produced to DC then back to "clean" AC, they can run at various speeds(Eco mode), when the power requirements allow.

So we know all generators produce a sine wave.  The question is what happens to the frequence and voltage to each type of generator.

If you have something plugged into a standard (inexpensive) generator that just runs allong, a fan or motor or computer, then the generator runs and the throttle keeps the morot running at 3600 RPM.  Now add a significant load to the system (well pump kicks on) and you may see s slight motor stumble and the throttle will kick up to allow the system to keep the voltage correct and the 3600 rpm.  How quickly the system adjusts to spikes is what causes issues.  it is about what YOU plug in and turn on and off that creates 65% of the problems.

Can anyone guess where the other problems come from?  If you are plugged in durring start up or durring shut down (Running out of gas) the throttle can not compensate and the motor stumbles and now we fall out of the voltage and hertz range.  Now we really have issues.  For those 10 seconds as the motor stops that is where we create the dammage.

So run the generator (DO NOT OVERLOAD IT), your (sensitive electronics) convert to DC anyway and your surge suppresor will keep the spikes out.  JUST Do NOT let it run out of gas and unplug it on start up.


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## ducker (Nov 2, 2012)

Awesome post Trickyrick.  

I learned first hand on this one winter....  I have a standard generator.  I didn't realize but it ran out of gas... I blew the fuse in my pellet stove.  In talking with an electrician, his explanation was that when the amount of voltage being output decreased with the generator running out of power, the stove attempted to pull down more amps, blowing the fuse.

Typically I run, the pellet stove, freezer/refrigerator (I switch the power between them), plasma TV, Fios box, Computer, a couple of florescent lights -- off of this generator. with surge protectors on the lines.  I'll also use my microwave for cooking, but when I do that - I'll unplug the freezer/refrigerator - a compressors kicking in while microwaving would be bad.

The generator I have is nothing fancy at all.  A very generic one.


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## WoodPorn (Nov 2, 2012)

ducker said:


> Awesome post Trickyrick.
> 
> I learned first hand on this one winter.... I have a standard generator. I didn't realize but it ran out of gas... I blew the fuse in my pellet stove. In talking with an electrician, his explanation was that when the amount of voltage being output decreased with the generator running out of power, the stove attempted to pull down more amps, blowing the fuse.
> 
> ...


 
This is 100% correct, Current is inverse to voltage, in other words as the voltage drops the amperage rises. This is why correctly sizing conductors is important, Voltage drop is a killer!



TrickyRick,
I am an Electrician, and that was very well said...


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## PA_Clinker (Nov 2, 2012)

I just bought one of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007P11M4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER but it showed up the same day our power was restored. With Sandy, I had to go ahead and run our stove off an old Homelite LR4400 with just a Belkin single outlet surge protector for 3 days. Not what I wanted to do, but so far it doesn't appear that I did any damage to my board.


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## Countryboymo (Nov 2, 2012)

Electricity is abstract to many people because you cannot see it. Voltage is pressure and amperage is flow which does the work. Its like trying to wash mud off your car with a pressure washer and then with a garden hose. The higher the pressure the less water it takes. If you go to the garden hose it takes a lot more water to do the same amount of work. If the voltage drops the amperage will climb and amperage is what creates the majority of the heat. If you let your car battery go till it will not start the car before you replace it, it will take a huge toll on the starter and many starters do not live a long time after the battery is replaced and some think that the new battery killed the starter. I can go further into this but voltage plays a huge role in how the amperage will react.  That is dc and ac is similar but you ad frequency in the mix with ac which stays stable if you overload a regular household circuit but with a generator that is not an inverter type as the load increases and the rpm decreases everything goes south.  The more stable the rpms of the generator the better the power will be.  When you see a generator with a 7500 watt nominal and 10kw peak and throw even a starting load on that challenges that peak the generator will struggle with it until the load drops. 

If you look at normal household voltage on a scope it goes from 120v+ to 120v- in a nice sweeping motion 60 times a second.  It doesn't take much of a generator blip to make things weird.  At the start of a load the voltage might dip and then if the load drops fast the voltage could jump momentarily until the engine settles back down.  While this is happening the frequency goes weird.  The cheaper the generator the more impact this can have. 

It is pretty much a guess as to how a pellet stove will react to one generator in comparison to another.  I know many have nice battery back ups that will polish the power signal for the stove which helps with a short outage.  I know a few others that purchased a nice 12v inverter and run the inverter off a battery that is charged by a charger connected to the generator which also buys refueling time without shutting down the stove while fueling the generator.   

I tried using my battery jump pack with built in inverter to run the stove and plugged the charger into the other side of the outlet and connected the charger leads to the jump pack main leads to charge it so I would have a perpetual pellet burning machine.... but it didn't pan out.  I was gonna be rich rich rich..... so much for that.


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## pell it (Nov 2, 2012)

Thought I would throw these out as a visual reference.  First is 120VAC from a wall outlet showing a standard sine wave.  Second is from a "modified sine wave" inverter.  When I get some time tomorrow, I will fire the genny, put a load on it, and put the o-scope on it.


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## Woody1911a1 (Nov 2, 2012)

pell it said:


> When I get some time tomorrow, I will fire the genny, put a load on it, and put the o-scope on it.


 
awesome , thank you


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## jtakeman (Nov 2, 2012)

Woody1911a1 said:


> pell it said:
> 
> 
> > Thought I would throw these out as a visual reference. First is 120VAC from a wall outlet showing a standard sine wave. Second is from a "modified sine wave" inverter. When I get some time tomorrow, I will fire the genny, put a load on it, and put the o-scope on it.
> ...


 
X2 Very nice of you to post it!


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## pell it (Nov 2, 2012)

pell it said:


> Thought I would throw these out as a visual reference. First is 120VAC from a wall outlet showing a standard sine wave. Second is from a "modified sine wave" inverter. When I get some time tomorrow, I will fire the genny, put a load on it, and put the o-scope on it.


 
Couldn't wait till tomorrow!!  Generator is a TSC  Champion 3500watt run 4000 watt surge "import special"!! 

*** I HAVE NOT run my stove with this generator yet ***  (though I did test my three back-up motors on it and all worked fine. not sure how the triacs on the control board would react!!) 

First shot is running with NO LOAD and second shot is WITH A LOAD.  The load I used was a benchtop size drill press. (it was handy and already plugged in to the power strip I used)
I will try and "borrow" a 120/120 isolation transformer from work tomorrow and see if it helps clean up the noise on the waveform.


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## Woody1911a1 (Nov 2, 2012)

nice , my gennie's the same . heading to amazom to get the new probes i need for my old tek 453 so i can join the conversation


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## WoodPorn (Nov 2, 2012)

Pellit, are you an electrician??


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## LMPS (Nov 2, 2012)

I have been running my Mt. Vernon off my DeWalt 6000 genny for the five years I have had the stove every time the power goes out.  When I do this I have run the stove 24/7 off the genny and have had no issue.  I do have the stove on surge protector.


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## jtakeman (Nov 2, 2012)

Awesome! Interested in what a UPS does to the dirty genny's sine?


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## Harvey Schneider (Nov 2, 2012)

I don't have all the answers. There is some good information here, but there is also a lot of superstition. 
Any pure sine device should be safe with any electronics that is designed to operate on mains power. Generator startup and shutdown can cause problems with poorly designed power supplies (there are lots of them out there). Low generator output at startup and shutdown will cause higher current in switching power supplies, but properly designed power supplies have undervoltage lockout. Transients caused by startup and shutdown of heavy machinery will cause more problems on a generator than on mains only because the generator doesn't have the capacity (low impedance) that the mains do. 
Modified sine  is ugly, but ugly isn't necessarily bad. It makes ugly noises in magnetic circuits like transformers and motors, increases vibration and may increase power dissipation to some extent. That doesn't mean that it is going to chew up your electronics and spit it out. The main objection to modified sine is that it causes interference with audio equipment. I wouldn't want to live with modified sine all the time.
I guess the point I want to make is take this all with a grain of salt.


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## glockshooter (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm running a 3500 watt Champion generator, and just bought a APC BX1000G.  http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BX1000G&tab=features

I figured I would run the generator into this, then the electronics out of that.  From the looks of it, I think that will be ok??   Seems like it's geared to electronics.


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## Mackdog (Nov 2, 2012)

Those of you using regular generators with your stoves, are you using a UPS and a surge protector  or are most of you using just the surge protectors?
Thanks again for all the great info.If the power goes out in cold weather, I will definitely be trying the stove with the generator.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Nov 2, 2012)

Quick question on surge suppressors and generators.  I have never seen anyone ground there generator..I thought surge syppresors worked by grounding the surge, is this correct?  And if so what happens when the gemny is not grounded.  I also thought surge suppresors only suppress large spikes...300 volts plus.  Sorry if this is all misinformation...any clarity would be appreciated.


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## charger1966 (Nov 2, 2012)

I use a Champion 3000w generator with 1 12 gauge 50' long electric cord running from a carport to my living room and plug the Envirofire EF-2 into it directly. I have ran this combo for two years when the power goes out for one thing or another with NO issues at all.


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## jtakeman (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm looking at the big genny's(8K) to power most of the house. No way do I want to spend 4K for a Honda, So its the low tech way for me. Probably going the Generac XG8000E and an APC UPS for the stove(only). Might get one for the PC, But for the most part everything else should be fine if you follow what the electrical guru's are saying. Don't have the tellies on and run out of fuel. Or have them powered when you first fire the genny's. I plan on firing the genny with a few lights one and then once its stable fire my other items. Keep an eye on the fuel/runtime and makes sure not to run it out of fuel. But if i do the UPS should protect the stove.

Hopefully I didn't miss something?


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## UncleAnthony (Nov 4, 2012)

the setup i plan on using (once generator arrives this week)

etq model tg32p12 generator (clean sine power,  thd<5%, not modified sine wave)
plugged to a surge protector.  then plugged to a cyberpower 1000pfclcd pure sine wave ups
with automatic voltage regulation.

The thought is this : the gene is supposed to be clean power, not modifed sine wave.
then surge protected into the ups. the ups is pure sine wave output, which the auto voltage regulation
should clean up any incoming droops or spikes.

I have yet to run this.   any comments would be great !
stay warm !


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

I am currently living off the grid in two travel trailer parked side by side with an addition built in betwee. I am running a motomaster 3300 watt peak, 2400 watt continuous gene, with a modified sin wave  1750 watt inverter on 8 deep cycle 6volt batteries wired to 12 volt with a kozi baw win pellet stove. So far no problems. I dont yet leave the stove for long periods timeby itself because i dont trust the batteries to last and not have the stove shut down without cooling off properly when the voltage drops and the inverter turns of automaticaly. That said, i only run the gene in the evenings for a few hours with the stove plugged into the inverter. When i go to bed, the genne runs out of fuel and the inverter keeps running the stove for a few hours until i get up. By then the voltage has dropped to about twelve volts. I could probably fill the gene full, let it run for about 6-8 hours, then when it runs out, the inverter would probably run the stove for an additional 3-5 hrs of the batteries alone. When the gene is running it is charging the batteries with the trailers chargers as well as a scheumaker (canadian tire) charger set at 20 AMP. I also run about 20-25 amps of solar, although it probably isnt that high in the winter. As said above, as the voltage dropps without the genne running, the lower it goes the faster it dropps. The inverter shows that the stove draws 50-70 amps. The system is slightly weak. That is why i dont run the stove while im at work. But it works great while im at home, and if only used in emergencies, the generator fuel costs would be alot cheaper than the gen running space heaters. It take alot of batteries to work well, but if u can find slightly used deep cycles on line for a decent price it can be a decent emergency . Mine works well but i babysit it as its a fairly new system that i dont trust alon yet with my stove for fear of low voltage and the inverter shutting off and the stove over heating. If i had double the bateries and a couple more solar panels i would probably trust it. Basically i could run it for about 6-10 hours alone between the gen and batts after gen runs out, but i drive truck for 12-15 hrs so i dont leave it alone


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

When i said that the inverter shows the stove drawing 50-70 amps, i meant watts. It draws 200-300 watts while igniting. 50-70 watts afterward. During the igniting process i usually hook my truck up to the system to help wit the draw on the batteries for a few minutes. I also wired a swich up to the igniter so that once i see flame, i can shut the ignitor off to conserve power because i find that it runs the ignitor much longer than is needed to get flame. I can see this on the inverters digital display. The 300 watts to ignite draws hard on the batteries, now i can shut that off once lit and shut my truck off. If the voltag is high, i probly dont neec the truck to boost the igniting process, but havent tested that as i just recently added the stove to the system. Still playing around with it and testing the systems efficiency. I am no expert. Learning as i go. Trying to live as cheap as possible


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

I have no surge protector yet but may purchase one after reading posts here. If my stove craps out, i will post it. But so far so good. Hopefully this long winded few posts will help and anyone with questions, i will do my best and anyone with any advice for me to improve my system id love to hear it


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

Im thinking rather than the generator, i mite build an alternator with engine setup because my truck alternator really pumps our the charging amps for my batteries. Mite be more fuel efficient for me to run a good alternator off a small engine than the chargers off the generator


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

My goal with this set up was to obtain cheaper, dryer heat than my trailers' propane furnaces


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

According to my inverters display my pelletstove runs mor efficiently on high. When on low, the votage drops and wattage goes up. Im guessing because the stoves motors draw more current on low because its like constantly trying to start the motors up when on low rather than just keeping them going at a high speed. Kinda li how a car is difficult to push at a low speed but once u get it moving quickly, its easier to keep it going


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## huckmonkey (Nov 22, 2012)

I dont think my stove is getting much for power spikes because it is pretty much the only thing i run off the inverter. When the gen runs out of fuel, the inverter is running off the batteries anyway so it keeps the voltvoltage fairly constant. The only thing the inverter has to deal with is the stoves fan and auger turning on and off. If i microwave or use other large appliances, they are on the generator, not the inverter. The inverter runs the stove and does things like charge my cell phone or cordless drill batteries


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## DirtyDave (Nov 23, 2012)

try to manually start your stove the  old fashion way  and save your batterytime for an added few mins. the igniter draws more than a match and gel does.


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## stoaf88 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a Generac 8kw whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch.

I dont worry about startup and shutdown because the generator comes on before the transfer switch switches on.

When power goes out the generator starts after 20 seconds and then 10 seconds later the transfer switch transfers power from generator to house.

After power is restored the transfer switch switches back to normal power and then generator shuts down after a 1 min cool down cycle.

I have both my stoves on tripp lite surge protectors just in case.

I have never had a problem yet.


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## Scott M (Nov 23, 2012)

I live in NJ and thanks to hurricane Sandy I ran my chinese made Powerhorse 7000 from northern tools for 10 days. I put over 100 hours on it and I ran my entire house on it including pellet stove, water pump, refridgerator and 47 inch flat screen TV. I had no problems and everything is still working. Switched off the mains and back fed it through the welder 220 plug in the garage. I did the research and had the same concerns but somtimes there is only one way to find out for sure and that was to fire it up and flip the switch.


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## DirtyDave (Nov 23, 2012)

and to think everything was fine on the chineese sinewave.


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## huckmonkey (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks DirtyDave. Yes i have thought of that too. My instruction book does say not to use lighter gel if equipped with electric igniter, but i don't see what the problem could be. I'm not too worried about it as the way I'm doing it with the switch to manually turn it off and using my pickup for the extra power boost works for me, but it mite be smart to keep some lighter gel handy just in case. For me the issue is more the overall power consumption of the stove. But i figured id let every one on here know what I'm running and that it is working. I have also run the stove for a moment a couple times directly off the generator, but after reading posts on here i would probably avoid it now, or do it more carefully. But...the stove is still working fine for everyone to know.


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## imacman (Nov 24, 2012)

stoaf88 said:


> I have a Generac 8kw whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch.
> 
> I dont worry about startup and shutdown because the generator comes on before the transfer switch switches on.
> 
> ...


I have the 12KW unit....same thing, never had any problems.  Stove runs same as utility power.


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## bill3rail (Nov 24, 2012)

Hurricane Sandy,old used 5kw generator with an extension cord to the stove.
I started and ran the stove as needed and NO problems at all!

Bill


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## Jack Morrissey (Feb 7, 2013)

stoaf88 said:


> I have a Generac 8kw whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch.
> 
> I dont worry about startup and shutdown because the generator comes on before the transfer switch switches on.
> 
> ...


I
 I am thinking of going this route too, Generac rep coming out next week.  A week late but sure it wont be the last time we may need a generator!!


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## P38X2 (Feb 7, 2013)

Homelite/Yamaha generator. Extension cords


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## moey (Feb 7, 2013)

Champion 3500 it does power my stove, although I run my boiler when the lights go out. That allows me to turn off the generator for a longer period of time.


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## PoolGuyinCT (Feb 7, 2013)

imacman said:


> Here's hoping you switched off the main breaker in the house so no lineman on a pole somewhere doesn't get fried trying to get your power back.




And not to mention you arrested


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## Rockbase (Apr 5, 2015)

WoodPorn said:


> This is 100% correct, Current is inverse to voltage, in other words as the voltage drops the amperage rises. This is why correctly sizing conductors is important, Voltage drop is a killer!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, Not exactly true, basic ohms law states the E (voltage) = I (Current/Amps ) x R (Resistance)
So resistance stays the same (unless something changes it like you), so a 120v circ / 60ohms = 2amps.  
Then lets say voltage dropped to 100volts divided by same 60 ohms now equals about 1.666 amps
So voltage and current moves together as long as the basic resistance remains the same.

Now for circuts thats drive up power by changing resistance to maintain a wattage, Watts = amps x voltage, so 2 amps * 120 volts = 240 watts.  If voltage rose to 240 volts,
amperage required would drop to  1 amp (1amp x 240volts = 240watts) and to do that resistance would have to change.

Its really easy.

   __E___       Watts (power) = I * E * and power factor (Use 1)           e=IxR                R= E/I           I=E/R
    I x R

-Rockbase-


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## Tonyray (Apr 5, 2015)

I have a Generac 7500 Generator and a Transfer switch hooked into my panel box to run at least 10 circuits[including the outlet] with the pellet stove plugged in.
that said, in a power failure, I won't chance running the pellet stove. 50% here say it's ok... 50% say shouldn't run on dirty power..
I run my oil furnace until power is restored...saved enough on oil so why chance it..


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## WoodPorn (Apr 7, 2015)

Rockbase said:


> Ok, Not exactly true, basic ohms law states the E (voltage) = I (Current/Amps ) x R (Resistance)
> So resistance stays the same (unless something changes it like you), so a 120v circ / 60ohms = 2amps.
> Then lets say voltage dropped to 100volts divided by same 60 ohms now equals about 1.666 amps
> So voltage and current moves together as long as the basic resistance remains the same.
> ...



Voltage and current become inverse
Voltage rise = current drop
Voltage drop equals current rise


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