# Trading my mower for a splitter, then it happend...



## sblat (Apr 25, 2011)

I am working out a deal with a guy to trade my Simplicity Regent 14 hydro for his one year old Speeco 25 ton splitter.  Got the mower out over the weekend only to find some serious problems.  I am kinda handy, but don't know a lot about engines.  I thought I would come here, because you all seem to know a lot about a lot  Here is the problem, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The mower would start, run for about 5 minutes, start smoking a little bit, then shut down and blow a lot of white smoke. I did notice oil around the muffler area, but no leaks that I could find. Being broken down is not that big of a deal since it is my back up, but I'm try to get rid of it. What could I be looking at here? Is it something I can fix? I am afraid I am looking at a head gasket or piston ring problem. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Intheswamp (Apr 25, 2011)

If you haven't already...

Check oil.  Full?  Milky colored?  Smell burnt?  Look burnt?  Look nice and clear?
Empty out the old gas.
Put fresh gas in.
Put new spark plug in.

???
Ed

PS...it's amazing sometimes what a new spark plug will do!


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## polaris (Apr 25, 2011)

Sound like oil in the gas(a common occurrence when one has set for a while with gas in the tank) The float sticks and since it is gravity fed the carb lets gas into the cylinder(s) where it leaks past the rings and into the crankcase. Pull your dipstick and see if it smells like fuel/gas. The carb can probably be cleaned but may need to be rebuilt.
Joe


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## sblat (Apr 25, 2011)

Would that cause the oil tone leaking out around my exhaust?  I will check it out when I get home.  I'm hoping it is something I can fix with out a couple hundred dollars...


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## Highbeam (Apr 25, 2011)

Air cooled gas engine. Any color of smoke except black means you are burning oil. How is oil getting into the combustion chamber? Could be a few reasons but start with the basics, check the oil level.


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## gfreek (Apr 25, 2011)

Assume its 14 HP, you know what engine brand Briggs or Kohler?  Briggs did have head gasket problems on the OHV's that leaked oil into the cylinder and they would smoke.     Mouse nest under blower cover would cause it to overheat and smoke some.  Did it stop on its own?


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## sblat (Apr 25, 2011)

It's a B&S 14 HP vanguard engine.  When I start the engine, after about 3 minutes I can actually see a bit of oil leaking from around the muffler, and once it hits the muffler it burns up and smokes.  Does that help at all?


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## maverick06 (Apr 26, 2011)

If it was blueish/grey then its oil... if it is ure white it could be coolant.... but since its probably aircooled, "white" is likely blueish and thus you are burning oil. 

That is pretty much confirmed by the oil at the pipe. 

Hope that you just put in 2 cycle gas (although it probably wouldnt smoke that much)  because thats an easy fix. 

Otherwise, there could be too much oil in the engine which is terrible, blown piston rings, or a lot of pretty unpleasant things. 

If all else fails, this could "fix" the problem
http://www.harborfreight.com/engine...cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-68306.html

Keep us posted, I am curious!


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## heat seeker (Apr 26, 2011)

Check your oil level, and give it a sniff. If it is high, and smells like gas, change it immediately. Gas leaked by the float needle and got into the oil. There is probably a minute bit of crud holding the needle off its seat. If you don't have one, install a shutoff valve in the fuel line. It's a safety and convenience item. For a $5 part, you may have avoided this situation.
Running the engine with diluted oil will quickly ruin it. My guess is that you have gas in your crankcase oil.


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## sblat (Apr 26, 2011)

I just opened and checked the oil, and it definitely smells like gas.  What's the fix for this problem? Drain the oil? Can I check the float needle to make sure it is not stuck so it doesn't happen again?


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## heat seeker (Apr 26, 2011)

Change the oil before running it again. As stated, gas is leaking past the float needle. Best thing to do is remove the carb, take the bowl off, and give the carb a good cleaning. A quick fix, which may or may not work, is to run the carb dry (having shut off the fuel valve), then opening the valve. The inrush of gas might just flush the crud out of the needle/seat - maybe. You should also have a fuel filter between the valve and the carb. That makes it easy to change in the future. 
The needle may indeed be stuck open. The only sure cure is to disassemble the carb and clean it out. It's a bit of work, but inexpensive to do.


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## heat seeker (Apr 26, 2011)

pls ignore this - can't delete extra post


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## Highbeam (Apr 26, 2011)

If your only problem is the float needle which soudns very very likely then you don't need to take off the carburetor. 

Easy carb rebuild:

Just shut off the gas with a valve if you have it or with a pair of vice grips to pinch the fuel line shut. Then remove the bowl, there is usually a nut on the bottom, The float will now be hanging down (not floating) which will open the needle valve that allegedly has crud in it. Blast the needle valve with carb cleaner. Blast everything with carb cleaner, shooting up into all brass jets and orifices. Clean the bowl, replace it, and give it a shot. If the carb is still plugged up it will show itself by dumping fuel into the engine, or running really rich.  

The gas that filled the carnkcase diluted the oil which made it very thin and allowed it to leak past piston rigs, valve guides, etc. and into the combustion chamber. It will probably still smoke for a bit until the oil residue has burned off. The burning oil was a secondary symptom of the plugged carb and not directly caused by it. 

Do change the oil before running the mower again.


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## heat seeker (Apr 26, 2011)

You can do as Highbeam suggests, but instead of reinstalling the bowl, you could GENTLY raise the float and turn on the gas and see if it leaks past the needle. You may be spilling gas, though, so take precautions! If it leaks, you're not done. If it doesn't leak, you're probably good to go. Might save you a step or two if the crud remains in the needle seat.


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## sblat (Apr 27, 2011)

I knew this was the right place to try!  I plan on working on it over the weekend with my father in law.  I am very engine dumb, and he is very engine savvy.  I am not really even sure what you all are talking about in respect to the float and needle. Hopefully my father in-law does.  Might be posting for more help in a few days if I can't future it out.  Thanks for all the ideas, anymore ideas or descriptions/procedures, I would love to hear them!


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## heat seeker (Apr 27, 2011)

We're glad to help - just be sure to get back to us and let us know how it came out! It's always great to hear the end of a story.


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## Highbeam (Apr 27, 2011)

Good idea heat seeker, to test out the needle/seat seal before putting the bowl back on. Remember when pushing up on the float that things can bend easily, only very light upwards pressure should be applied to the floats to simulate the bouyant force of the fuel on the float. Even with the float hanging down on its own, a nice flush of gasoline from the fuel line will aid in blasting blockage clear from the plugged area.

I just hate to fully remove the carb and mess with the linkage, and the seals at each end. Possibly creating vacuum leaks, breaking things, or getting dirt in there. Even when you do remove the carb, you don't do anything really special with it that couldn't be done by just popping the bowl off. There is usually pretty good access to the carb on vertical shaft mower engines since the carb hangs off the side.


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## sblat (Apr 28, 2011)

I drained the oil tonight and it was very thin and gas smelling.  Since I don't know much about engines, I took 2 pics to post.  The first is where the main gas line enters, then splits of into 2 directions.  The second pic is where one line connects to what looks like to me to be a bulb.  Is this what I am looking for?  I have no idea how to access it at all.  Should I add new oil, pinch the gas line off til it runs out, the let the gas free?  I am a little worried that it will not dislodge the problem, and I will have to drain the oil again, and start all over.  Thoughts?


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## heat seeker (Apr 28, 2011)

sblattert said:
			
		

> I drained the oil tonight and it was very thin and gas smelling.  Since I don't know much about engines, I took 2 pics to post.  The first is where the main gas line enters, then splits of into 2 directions.  The second pic is where one line connects to what looks like to me to be a bulb.  Is this what I am looking for?  I have no idea how to access it at all.  Should I add new oil, pinch the gas line off til it runs out, the let the gas free?  I am a little worried that it will not dislodge the problem, and I will have to drain the oil again, and start all over.  Thoughts?



You won't have to change the oil again if you don't let gas run into it. That means shutting the fuel flow off when not running - using the shutoff valve you hopefully installed. 

The pictures aren't too clear, but it seems the first one is the fuel pump. One gas line in, one gas line out, and one vacuum-pulse line that operates the pump. 

Your second picture is the carb itself, with the bowl hanging under it. I don't see it in the photo, but there must be a fuel line going to the carb. You could pinch it, start the engine so it uses up the gas in the bowl, then unpinch the line. That _might_ move the crud from the needle/seat. It's worth a try.


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## sblat (Apr 28, 2011)

Should I put the shut off valve on the line between the fuel pump and the carb, or from the tank to the pump?   

Also, just to clarify, if I shut off the gas when done using it everytime, then 2 things will happen.  One, the gas will not be able to get into the oil, and two, each time I open the value to start up, it will help flush out anything clogging the needle.  Do I have this right?


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## Highbeam (Apr 28, 2011)

I would put the shutoff between the pump and tank just because you may need to remove the pump someday. Either place will do the job which is to prevent flow from the tank to the carb during non-running times. More important is to find a convenient place that isn't rubbing against anything. 

As far as flushing out the needle each time you start the engine, well that isn't going to happen unless you shut off the fuel and then run the engine until the engine stalls for lack of fuel. Following the stall, the bowl is empty and opening the valve will provide a bit of a flush. 

If you remove the line between the carb and the pump then you have a pretty direct shot at the needle jet. I would try and blast something down the carb's fuel inlet. Carb cleaner, air, something like that. Ideally the bowl will be off but even if it's not, it's worth a little try.


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## sblat (Apr 28, 2011)

This is great, thanks for all the detailed help!  I actually feel that this is something that I can do.  I am excited to go buy a shut off at the hardware and get to work over the weekend!  I will keep you posted and might have a few additional questions later on.  I have been watching a few youtube vids on cleaning the carb as well.  After I do everything, I still might run the gas out the next hand full of times that I run the mower just to help flush it out when I turn the gas back on again.  Thanks again!


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## blades (Apr 29, 2011)

You have a  electric solenoid fuel shut off on the bottom off your carb ( 2nd pic). It is likely frozen open and needs to be replaced. Least that is what the picture looks like. It is a common problem. I can not remember if there is power on the hot side all the time or not. I do know that when you turn the key on it's circuit is completed to allow gas to flow into carb. Sometimes you can here the click before actually cranking the engine over.


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## sblat (Apr 29, 2011)

Could that be the whole problem?  How hard is that to replace?  And is it an expensive part?  Should I still put the inline shut off in?  I feel like I am able to do the work now that people have shown me the way.  I did notice the wires coming from the bottom of the bowl and wondered what it was all about.  Any help with the steps to the process would be helpfull.


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## blades (Apr 29, 2011)

if you want to be extra safe you could still add an in line shut off. The solenoid does the same thing. the rest of the carb should be like others have described.  To tell the truth it has been about 4 years since I did the last one, and I can not quite remember. I would think if you google for a diagram it should get  you through it.


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## heat seeker (May 2, 2011)

The solenoid does NOT shut the fuel flow off to the carb. It merely blocks the main jet so that the engine will not after-fire or run on when it's shut off. A shutoff valve in the fuel line is still needed on gravity-fed machines. The solenoid can and will keep the engine from running, even if the bowl is full - that's it's function, after all. When you turn the key on, it should click. If it doesn't click, check for 12 volts on its wire when the ignition is turned on. If it's not there, you have an electrical problem.
If the solenoid doesn't click, it may be dead, or just gummed up so that it won't operate. You can remove it by unscrewing it (gas will leak out, have the shutoff valve closed to minimize the spillage). You can test the solenoid by using a good 9 volt battery on the bench. The plunger should retract with voltage applied. You may have to give it a little help, some of them have a quirk that I won't explain right now, but they need to be pushed in about â…›", then they pull in the rest of the way.
The engine can be run without the solenoid, just use an appropriate sized bolt to hold the bowl onto the carb. 
Hope this helps, it can be confusingâ€¦.


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## sblat (May 2, 2011)

That does help a lot!  I got everything apart and cleaned yesterday.  Changed the oil, installed the shutoff.  Me being new to this, of course I had my few hickups with it.  I forgot to put the gasket back on the bowl, so it origanally fired, then died out, but not with the big cloud of white smoke.  I then realized gas was leaking from the bowl (no gasket) so I pulled it back off again, put the gasket back on, and over tightened it and snapped the bolt of the solenoid.    The soleniod was working fine.  When I removed it from the bowl, I checked it by turning the key to on, and it clicked and went down.  But I think I am going to remove it right now, and just put a bolt to hold the bowl on.  Thanks for the thoughts, it has really help a lot, and saved some money...


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## sblat (May 5, 2011)

I did all the work over the weekend and first part of this week.  I ended up removing the solenoid and just using a bolt to connect everything back together.  My next question is how do I adjust the carb?  I found one little screw on the carb when I take the bowl off that has made a little difference.  The first time, I screwed it all the way in, and the mower would only run on full choke.  The second time I loosened it up a couple turns and it would run out of choke but still want to cut out.  I moved it a couple more turns, now it will fun too hard, and will no throttle down at all.  Any ideas of what I need to do, or how to fix it?  Do I just have to keep fussing with that screw until I get it right?  Thanks


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## Highbeam (May 5, 2011)

Before you fiddled with that adjustment screw you should have counted how many turns it was backed out from fully tight. There was no need to adjust that screw. At this point, just keep fussing with it until it runs right. It sounds like the slow jet (aka: pilot jet) adjustment. Figure that most of those screws are meant to work in a range of 1 to three turns out. Work in half turn increments. You'll only need to guess 6 times.


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## sblat (May 5, 2011)

Thats where I was heading.  I think I am close now.  The last time I adjusted it, it ran strong, but was not able to idle it down.  I will start from there and move back a half turn at a time.  Thanks for the help.


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