# Flat screen TVs



## Gary_602z (Dec 21, 2012)

Okay wifey wants one for Christmas! I know NOTHING about them! LCD,LED,Plasma. What are the pros and cons.? What is a decent brand? It won't be a 40 or 60 incher just something for the bedroom that will fit in the entertainment center. Maybe 27-28" wide.What do you have and are you happy with it?

Gary


----------



## albert1029 (Dec 21, 2012)

LED is a little brighter than LCD...I think Plasma has had some issues...look for refresh rate (referred to in Hz)...60Hz is lowest and you'll get a little pixelation (blurriness) in fast action...120Hz is better...that is what really determines the price...personally, I find the step from 60Hz to 120Hz to be noticeable, and worth the additional money...the step from 120 to 240 is far more modest of an improvement...as far as brand, I have a Samsung and I'm happy with it and it's only 60Hz...the market is very competitive and each brand seems to have slightly different picture appearance (to me)...


----------



## SlyFerret (Dec 21, 2012)

"LED" TV's are just LCD panels with LED back lights.  Lots of individual LED's can give the electronics in the TV better control over the back light.  For instance, dark parts of the picture can be dimmed locally to help improve contrast.  LED is going to be the most power efficient and produce the least amount of heat.

LCD TVs have fluorescent backlights.  There are tons of LCD panels out there, so they may be a little cheaper than an LED panel.  The fluorescent back light will use a little more power and generate a little more heat than LED.

Plasma is another technology completely.  It is the least power efficient of the flat panel TV types and generates the most heat.  Older plasma TVs used to need to be recharged ever ~5 years or so, but I think they got that worked out.  Plasma will suffer from burn-in even worse than a traditional old tube TV would.  Plasmas are cheap because there is less demand for them and the technology in general has come down in price.

LCD/LED TVs are great in bright rooms, and plasma excels in a darkened home theater environment where the lighting is very controlled.

Plasma has a very high refresh rate and response time, so motion is usually very smooth and clear.

In my opinion, an LED TV's strike a great balance balance with high contrast ratios so they can be used in bright rooms or dark home theaters.  Any TV will need to be adjusted differently for each environment though.  I also like the lack of burn-in on LED and LCD panels.  There are many LCD or LED panels out there with 120Hz or higher refresh rates.  120Hz is the key because it is a multiple of 24, 30, and 60 frames per second.  These are the three frame rates that you'll find in TV, DVD, online videos, video games, and blu-ray content.  24 frame per second content on a 60Hz panel will have to go through some funky frame rate conversion where some frames are shown longer than others.  This causes judder that drives me nuts personally, but many people don't even notice it.

There are a lot of TVs with "240Hz" refresh rates advertized.  These sets have some active processing that take the incoming 24/30/60 frame per second signal and interpolate or synthesize new frames to go between the actual frames.  This helps to smooth out and sharpen the video.  It works well for some types of content.  For other types of content, it may actually make a film source like a blue ray movie look like a soap opera shot on video.  This is sometimes referred to as the "soap opera" effect.  I turn all of this active processing off because I don't like the effect.  My parents on the other hand don't seem to mind it though and like the extra smooth picture.

I love Samsung TV's.  They are my pick.  Samsung makes panels for a lot of other company's TV sets and computer monitors.  I would also consider Sharp, Sony, Visio, and LG.  Panasonic has been known for really nice Plasma TV's.

You can check out the reviews on cnet.com.  If they don't review the exact model you're looking at, they usually have one in the same family of models that might give you an idea of quality.

For a bedroom TV though, this may all be way too much info.  Even a cheap TVs made today will look as good as high end models from 5 years ago.

-SF


----------



## heat seeker (Dec 21, 2012)

I have a Samsung LCD, like it a lot. As mentioned, there is some blur in fast moving parts, but it's not annoying.


----------



## Dix (Dec 21, 2012)

Been in electronic & appliance service, repair, warranty, and service contract business for 25 + years.(Now moving on to plumbing, heating, HVAC, & AC)

If I had to buy a flat screen I'd look at  LG or Panasonic. Both have superior parts inventory (usually), warranty terms (check the model info/owners manual for each model considered before buying, do not trust the salesmans "word" on terms. Some only have 90 day (usually based on size), most larger (32 " +) on these brands have 1 year.

I'd also consider, if I were strapped for $$$'s, a Sanyo from Walmart with an extended Walmart contract.... but again check each manufacturers warranty terms on each model before buying. Some manufacturers (Vizio for example) farm out their warranty work to 3rd parties..... service can be a pain.

Samsung, particularly their LCDs have had a capacitor issue in the power supply/SMPS pcb's... they'll crap out in a cascade effect, and eventually the set will go dead, with the "click of death". Samsung makes ALOT of other power supply/smps pcb's for other manufacturers.

And if you buy local, check the set before leaving the store, ie: plug it in & get a signal on it. A cracked display will usually not be honored by any one if you get it home & discover this issue after buying one.

Good luck !!


----------



## Highbeam (Dec 21, 2012)

27" wide is a tiny screen. The TV that came in my tow behind RV trailer is that size.

Go to the superstores and look at the screens, see the colors and contrast and quality. I did this at walmart and really liked what I saw with the samsung 40" LCD that is now on my wall. I could have paid more or less but the picture was much nicer to my eyes on the samsung LCD.

I don't care about warranty or parts availability. Especially in a TV that is so tiny as you describe. If it breaks, take it back. If they won't take it then buy another. This TV will cost about as much as two tanks of fuel for a pickup and is hardly worth repairing.


----------



## BrotherBart (Dec 21, 2012)

Wife has been running the 37" Vizio LCD from Walmart in the bedroom around the clock for two years with no problems. And it makes a great supplemental heater for the room since it is upstairs and farthest from the wood stove. Check power consumption on the things. There is a vast difference between models even with the same screen size and technology.


----------



## fossil (Dec 21, 2012)

I have a Sony Bravia LCD, going into its 4th trouble-free year.  Mine's a 46" (diag).  Bought it (and my audio system) online from B&H Photo...terrific pricing and free freight to my door.  Couldn't beat that deal locally.  I'm perfectly happy with it (though I don't really watch all that much TV).  If it ever craps out, I'll prob'ly just recycle it and buy a new one.  Rick


----------



## Gary_602z (Dec 21, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> 27" wide is a tiny screen. The TV that came in my tow behind RV trailer is that size.
> 
> Go to the superstores and look at the screens, see the colors and contrast and quality. I did this at walmart and really liked what I saw with the samsung 40" LCD that is now on my wall. I could have paid more or less but the picture was much nicer to my eyes on the samsung LCD.
> 
> I don't care about warranty or parts availability. Especially in a TV that is so tiny as you describe. If it breaks, take it back. If they won't take it then buy another. This TV will cost about as much as two tanks of fuel for a pickup and is hardly worth repairing.


 
Just measured and I could go about 34" max width to fit the entertainment center.

Thanks guys! I actually learned something today!

Gary


----------



## jharkin (Dec 21, 2012)

We have a 46in Samsung LCD in the den that's about 6 years old now. No led backlight, no 120hz and probably cost 3x what a similar set today does... But I still love it.

If you are a big movie watcher or just want the best picture possible you can get a calibration DVD to set all the picture settings. HDTV,s have many more adjustments than tubes and are usually preset to a very bluish overly bright preset designed to look impressive in the showroom. There is typically a "movie" or "warm" mode for the color temp that is warmer and more natural looking.

Also if you are coming from tube tv,'s... Buy bigger than you think you need. A 27in wide screen will feel smaller than a 27in traditional TV due to the lower height.


----------



## fossil (Dec 21, 2012)

Gary_602z said:


> Just measured and I could go about 34" max width to fit the entertainment center...


 
Keep in mind they're measured diagonally, and there are lots of guidelines for most comfortable screen size relative to viewing distance.  Think sitting in the very front row of a theater with a mega-huge screen...depending on the room/arrangement, there can be such a thing as too large a screen.  Lots of resources on the web for researching this stuff.  Rick


----------



## save$ (Dec 21, 2012)

Also consider where you buy your tv.   Sam's Club sells a warranty that is very inexpensive.   We had a Visio for one year that stopped working.  My wife took it back and came home with a new one with no hassle.   This one has been running daily without problem.  The color is vibrant.  We bought a smaller one fot the dining room.  Same brand.   Very happy with that unit.


----------



## pen (Dec 21, 2012)

Gary_602z said:


> Just measured and I could go about 34" max width to fit the entertainment center.


 
If I remember right, the last 32 inch TV I bought had a total width of 31.5 inches.  Somewhere on the box it will give you the actual TV dimensions if you look close, or take the tape measure with you.

pen


----------



## velvetfoot (Dec 22, 2012)

That's the problem with an entertainment center.  That large flat screen becomes more expensive when furniture has to be replaced.


----------



## Gary_602z (Dec 22, 2012)

velvetfoot said:


> That's the problem with an entertainment center. That large flat screen becomes more expensive when furniture has to be replaced.


That's not gonna happen! 

Gary


----------



## save$ (Dec 22, 2012)

These new HD tvs are fantastic.   I now have them even for the computer.   It is amazing how much eye strain there is while watching the older screens.   The few days a month that I work, I am on the computer all day.  With the HD screen, my eye strain is much less,and I'm not so  exhausted when the day is done.   Get the size screen that is appropriate for the distance.  
I saw 32 in sets going for $200. On Black Friday.    40 in for $600.  Etc.     I think there are a lot of sets available as the push move towards 3D.


----------



## MasterMech (Dec 22, 2012)

Don't worry about getting a 1080p set for the bedroom either.  On small screens, under 32", you're hard pressed to see the difference between 720p and 1080p anyways.  The wife and I have a 32" 720p Samsung (old series 3 unit) that we bought for under $300 at a Black Friday sale three years ago.  It has done the job admirably.


----------



## Highbeam (Dec 22, 2012)

A cabinetmaker built my house. Lots of built in cabinets including the entertainment center where he built a square hole for a 30" or so tube TV. Gotta tell you, the TV that will fit the square opening leaves a lot of space above and below the TV. New TVs are very rectangular and you will be using a very small LCD TV when trying to utilize the square hole in an old entertainment center. It will look like a mistake.

Can you wallmount an LCD somewhere else?


----------



## jharkin (Dec 22, 2012)

When we got our first LCD I ripped the top off the entertainment center and just used the bottom as a cabinet.  When we later moved we got a new base cabinet only style entertainment center. Looks much nicer with the TV sitting on top.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 22, 2012)

I love research and about three or four years ago I did a lot of research into TVs . . . granted a lot could have changed, but from what I remember Sly's and Dixie's advice is spot on.

In the end my wife actually bought me the TV I wanted without even knowing it . . . Panasonic Vierra Plasma TV. I liked it so much I ended up getting a smaller version for the bedroom.


----------



## ScotO (Dec 23, 2012)

great thread with lots of great input!  I have a question......I'm just now on the tail-end of my living room renovation and finishing up the fireplace.  The room is very large (30' x 16', roughly).  I really need a large TV in that room, for the way it will be laid out (I really like the Sharp Aquos),  looking at the 70" and 80" units.  The 70" can be had right now for around $2500.00, the 80" is a huge jump at $4900.00 (not worth the extra money IMO).  Yes it's a lot of dough for a TV, but we've never had a good TV, ever!  And I have been saving for YEARS to build this room and make it a nice entertainment room, I ran full surround all the way round in the ceilings, wired a subwoofer through the wall, etc.  So my question is, anyone out there have experience with this TV?  Also I held off buying it on Black Friday because many have told me to wait til the Superbowl to buy one.  They say a really REALLY good deal can be had at that time.  What should I do?


----------



## MasterMech (Dec 23, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> great thread with lots of great input! I have a question......I'm just now on the tail-end of my living room renovation and finishing up the fireplace. The room is very large (30' x 16', roughly). I really need a large TV in that room, for the way it will be laid out (I really like the Sharp Aquos), looking at the 70" and 80" units. The 70" can be had right now for around $2500.00, the 80" is a huge jump at $4900.00 (not worth the extra money IMO). Yes it's a lot of dough for a TV, but we've never had a good TV, ever! And I have been saving for YEARS to build this room and make it a nice entertainment room, I ran full surround all the way round in the ceilings, wired a subwoofer through the wall, etc. So my question is, anyone out there have experience with this TV? Also I held off buying it on Black Friday because many have told me to wait til the Superbowl to buy one. They say a really REALLY good deal can be had at that time. What should I do?


 
Sounds to me like you've already done made that decision Scott.  Enjoy watching the big game on the big screen. 

Sorry, no specific advise regarding that set.   One day I'll get me a real TV too...


----------



## CodyWayne718 (Dec 23, 2012)

To keep it simple, if it's in a well lit area go with LCD. If it's in a not so lit area a plasma is fine. Also since it's in a bedroom and will more than likely only be watched from one angle, you'd be fine with either. I have both and haven't had any issues with either. Both of mine are vizio.  happy shopping


----------



## MasterMech (Dec 23, 2012)

CodyWayne718 said:


> Also since it's in a bedroom and will more than likely only be watched from one angle, you'd be fine with either.


 
I've noticed the off angle viewing properties of the LCD's has improved dramatically over the last 5 years.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 23, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> great thread with lots of great input! I have a question......I'm just now on the tail-end of my living room renovation and finishing up the fireplace. The room is very large (30' x 16', roughly). I really need a large TV in that room, for the way it will be laid out (I really like the Sharp Aquos), looking at the 70" and 80" units. The 70" can be had right now for around $2500.00, the 80" is a huge jump at $4900.00 (not worth the extra money IMO). Yes it's a lot of dough for a TV, but we've never had a good TV, ever! And I have been saving for YEARS to build this room and make it a nice entertainment room, I ran full surround all the way round in the ceilings, wired a subwoofer through the wall, etc. So my question is, anyone out there have experience with this TV? Also I held off buying it on Black Friday because many have told me to wait til the Superbowl to buy one. They say a really REALLY good deal can be had at that time. What should I do?


 
Again . . . when I was looking it was several years back so things could have changed . . . but the Sharp Aquos line up did quite well with both professional and consumer reviews . . . if I had gone with a LCD TV it would have been the Sharp Aquos line up.


----------



## ScotO (Dec 23, 2012)

firefighterjake said:


> Again . . . when I was looking it was several years back so things could have changed . . . but the Sharp Aquos line up did quite well with both professional and consumer reviews . . . if I had gone with a LCD TV it would have been the Sharp Aquos line up.


We really like the picture on them.  Our local Best Buy has the 70", 80", and 90" all on display to get a really good feel as to the quality, and I like them!  Kinda funny though, the salesman told us to shy away from the 90" for some reason....

The $9999.00 price tag already had me convinced NOT to buy that one!!


----------



## jharkin (Dec 23, 2012)

I would spend time reading reviews at sites like CNET and on amazon, etc before buying. For big purchases like that i m leery of just picking up whatever is on black Friday sale... It might be a slow selling model they are trying to offload.


----------



## Highbeam (Dec 23, 2012)

Yikes, when you get super huge isn't there a time when the projector makes more sense?


----------



## ScotO (Dec 23, 2012)

Highbeam said:


> Yikes, when you get super huge isn't there a time when the projector makes more sense?


 If you have an ideal situation, yes.  But we have to slightly 'angle' the TV in the corner (I built custom brackets IN the wall to accomodate an articulating mount), projector just won't work in our install.  I think we're going to go with the 70"........it'll be 'just right' in relation to size and the space we are using.


----------



## firefighterjake (Dec 23, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> We really like the picture on them. Our local Best Buy has the 70", 80", and 90" all on display to get a really good feel as to the quality, and I like them! Kinda funny though, the salesman told us to shy away from the 90" for some reason....
> 
> The $9999.00 price tag already had me convinced NOT to buy that one!!


 
One thing a lot of folks forget though when looking at floor models in the store is that the look can be quite different when you go from a brightly lit store with florescent lights to a "normal" home . . . that said . . . as mentioned this line up was getting good reviews from actual users and professional reviews . . . and the ones I saw in the store looked good as well.


----------



## ScotO (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm pretty much sold on the 70"......I'm just waiting til the Superbowl to buy it.....

Waiting 'til the last second to try and get the best deal.....


----------



## luv2byte (Dec 23, 2012)

If you do any gaming then go plasma.  It's ideal for the graphics due to refresh rate & lighting.  Plasma has nice viewing from all angles & uniform brightness.   Otherwise it depends on your preference.  Go to a place like Best Buy that has the sMe model tv set up side by side of an LCD & plasma so you can see the differences best.  All of us here at home prefer plasma, we have 3 plasma & 1LCD.  no issues w any of them but the picture on our plasma Samsung is superior to the other tvs we have.  No burn in issues & looks fantastic in all lighting, bright to dark room.


----------



## SlyFerret (Dec 23, 2012)

What ever you buy, take about half an hour to calibrate it.  You can get DVD or bluray disks with the test patterns and blue filter glasses pretty cheap online. You would be amazed how far off you will be just by eyeballing the settings.

-SF


----------



## begreen (Dec 24, 2012)

We have a 37" Panasonic that just fits into our 36" TV cabinet. Prior to that we had a 32" Panny in there. The new tv is LED lit with a super fast refresh rate. It has an excellent picture under all the conditions we thrown at it. The older set would blur with some motion and it up-rezzed older broadcast tv somewhat poorly. The new one is flawless. We love it.


----------



## drizler (Dec 24, 2012)

SlyFerret said:


> "LED" TV's are just LCD panels with LED back lights. Lots of individual LED's can give the electronics in the TV better control over the back light. For instance, dark parts of the picture can be dimmed locally to help improve contrast. LED is going to be the most power efficient and produce the least amount of heat.
> 
> LCD TVs have fluorescent backlights. There are tons of LCD panels out there, so they may be a little cheaper than an LED panel. The fluorescent back light will use a little more power and generate a little more heat than LED.
> 
> ...


 

I got a 55 inch Samsung 6ooo last Christmas and couldn;t be happier.  The space saving alone just hanging on the wall can be amazing in itself.  Mine is an HD 3D LED, all sorts of D's there but it looks fantastic and I have yet to have a single issue.   This is the time of year to buy one.   Lot's of super deals on high end models ect, ship to store ect.    I got mine that way sent to Sams Club.      I'll bet you can find something really good with Boxing Day rolling around.......................... if you haven't already.  Of course get you a high quality surge protector and even then unplugging when lightning storms threaten.


----------



## SlyFerret (Dec 24, 2012)

One other note.  The difference in a cheap TV vs. an expensive TV has more to do with the video processing/electronics than it does the actual panel.  The secret sauce is in the chips.  The panels themselves are really only made by a few manufacturers and used in many different brands of TVs.

-SF


----------



## Don2222 (Dec 25, 2012)

Hello

I bought a 46" TV and they said it would look best above the fireplace but I did not have a fireplace! So I put one in!


----------



## ScotO (Dec 25, 2012)

Don2222 said:


> Hello
> 
> I bought a 46" TV and they said it would look best above the fireplace but I did not have a fireplace! So I put one in!


Hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do....looks great, Don!


----------



## Don2222 (Dec 25, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do....looks great, Don!


 
I purchased the vent pipes to go straight thru the roof and when I got them home, I said Oh No the TV is in the way. LOL

So I went straight out the back!


----------



## ScotO (Dec 25, 2012)

SlyFerret said:


> What ever you buy, take about half an hour to calibrate it. You can get DVD or bluray disks with the test patterns and blue filter glasses pretty cheap online. You would be amazed how far off you will be just by eyeballing the settings.
> 
> -SF


Looks like I'll be PM'ing you when I get my TV, Slyferret.  You seem to know your stuff with these TV's. 

They aren't my forte.  Now give me a pile of rocks and some mortar and I'll amaze ya.


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Dec 25, 2012)

I have a 50 something inch Samsung plasma. Has a great picture, and as others have pointed out, plasma has very fast refresh rates and good viewing angles. Plasma use to outclass LCD by a long margin in these things, but new technologies and the advent of LED screens, that gap has diminished.
The down side of plasma is they are more power hungry, so if you are planning on leaving your TV on a lot you might want to consider the other options. For us we only seldom use the big TV so it wasn't a concern. Also plasma screens for some reason don't have as good a anti-glare as LED/LCD screens, so with lights on or bright windows in the room you tend to get more reflections on the screen, this is why they work better in dim rooms. It's not that the picture isn't bright enough, because it is, it's just the screen glare becomes an issue if you have lots of other light sources in the room. Again, we don't have that issue in our TV room, so for us it wasn't a problem, in fact we were originally going to set up a projector in the room, but changed our minds at the last moment because we decided we wanted the 3D feature which would have cost a lot more with a projector at the time.
I ended up getting a 3D video camera and now have lots of 3D home videos kayaking, flying, hiking and other activities. Even if you weren't interested in home videos with more and more new movies coming out in 3D you might want to consider looking for that feature in a new TV.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 25, 2012)

Just got a 32" LED for the kids room $199. It weighs only 12 LBs. I like the LEDS cuz they use less power and are thinner. Our Samsung 55" LCD however still has a dazzling picture at 3 years old.


----------



## stee6043 (Dec 25, 2012)

Quite a timely thread.  I've been singing the praises of Samsung for a few years now.  Well this morning, yes Christmas morning, our Samsung 50" plasma took a crap on us.  It's only 5  years old.  It's the oldest of three Samsung's I own so I hope this is not a typical life expectancy.  Based on my google time this morning it appears the power supply is bad and that this is a common problem with Samsung plasmas.

I'm not saying Samsung isn't a good product.  Just sharing my 2 hour old disappointment with my plasma.  I highly doubt I'll be spending $300 to get it fixed (going rate per other forums).  And based on how much heat my plasma kicked off I'd say I'm going to lean toward an LED/LCD when I replace it.

I knew I should have left a beer out for Santa last night.  But noooo, my wife insisted on milk.


----------



## ScotO (Dec 25, 2012)

I've read about the flare issues with the plasma screens, so that option is out altogether.  We have a 9'x5' picture window in that room and that'd make watching that TV during the day miserable.  I'm going with the Sharp Auqous 70"......just waiting for the right deal and I'm pulling the trigger.....


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 25, 2012)

Every plasma i have ever seen you can see lines in the picture. I guess if you are far enough away its not an issue. LED seems to be the future in TVs


----------



## SlyFerret (Dec 25, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> Looks like I'll be PM'ing you when I get my TV, Slyferret.  You seem to know your stuff with these TV's.
> 
> They aren't my forte.  Now give me a pile of rocks and some mortar and I'll amaze ya.



Sure thing!  It is really pretty easy.

-SF


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Dec 26, 2012)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Every plasma i have ever seen you can see lines in the picture. I guess if you are far enough away its not an issue. LED seems to be the future in TVs


Lines in the picture???
You must have found a broken batch of plasma TVs somewhere, I've never seen that before. With the high quality and resolution of TVs nowadays I think it would be pretty hard to sell any TVs that had lines in them. In 1952 maybe, but not now.
Seriously, I'm kinda into the high definition stuff, I have a few high definition cameras and do 3D and HD video editing, I have an eye for resolution and detail. I've never seen any flat screen TVs (plasma, LCD, LED) in the showroom, or else where, that had lines in the pictures.
If you look closely enough at any of those TVs you'll be able to see the individual pixels, the larger the screen the larger the pixels will be, and if you are looking at a 720p screen the pixels will be bigger than a 1080p screen of the same size, that's because there is fewer pixels on a 720p screen, and they end up being bigger. But if you see a new flat screen TV with discernible lines in it,,, then it's broken.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 26, 2012)

Lumber-Jack said:


> Lines in the picture???
> Y.


Horizontal lines ,look close, you will see them. Especially visible in the white areas. Look at all the plasmas on display anywhere.Never saw a single plasma without. Im sure im not the only person that sees them. Very distracting to me,but if you dont see them i guess its not to you.


----------



## begreen (Dec 26, 2012)

It's called the screen door effect. I see this on my friend's Samsung LED tv too. Don't get me wrong, it's a great set, but I love the Panny for this reason. I can get up close and there are no lines apparent. I notice this even more with their HD projector. You can go right up to the screen and it's smooth.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 26, 2012)

begreen said:


> It's called the screen door effect. I see this on my friend's Samsung LED tv too. Don't get me wrong, it's a great set, but I love the Panny for this reason. I can get close and there are no lines apparent. I notice this even more with their HD projector. You can go right up to the screen and it's smooth.


Different eyes see different things as well.im semi color blind,i may not see the same color as the next person,but my far vision is sharp. Of course at 56 my close vision (under 2 Ft) needs reading glasses. But i can see those plasma lines like stripes on a prison uniform. Next time im near one ill check what distance its most noticable.


----------



## Lumber-Jack (Dec 26, 2012)

If it's the screen door effect, perhaps you are referring to the old projector TVs, because projection systems were more prone to door screen,effect, also known as fixed-pattern noise (FPN). But that effect isn't just horizontal lines, it also made up vertical and horizontal fine lines separating the pixels, which was kind of what I was referring to in my last post about pixel resolution. And this was something that plasma screens were touted to be better at eliminating years ago, but LCD and of course the newer LED technology has caught up to. 
But yes, I know what it is, and you can see it in any screen if you get close enough, but have never noticed it any worse in plasma TVs. I use to have an older projector that had it fairly pronounced, but it was only 640x480 resolution.


----------



## begreen (Dec 28, 2012)

No, the screen door effect is not scan lines, it's the undesirable black space between pixels, both vertical on horizontal. I see it right away on my friend's big LED Samsung, but only when closer than about 6' to the screen.


----------



## DexterDay (Dec 28, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:


> We really like the picture on them.  Our local Best Buy has the 70", 80", and 90" all on display to get a really good feel as to the quality, and I like them!  Kinda funny though, the salesman told us to shy away from the 90" for some reason....
> 
> The $9999.00 price tag already had me convinced NOT to buy that one!!



I replaced my 6 yr old  50" Vizio LCd (1080p 60 hz) T.V. this weekend with a 60" Sharp Aquos LED 240hz 3D Smart TV with Quattron..

The difference in 6 yrs of Technology is amazing!! The Sharp is really easy to set up and has a "Store" or "Home" setting (brighter in store mode because of light, but not recommended to run it normally). The quality in picture is amazing and the Smart TV thing is a pretty nice feature. 

There is one other T.V. I looked long and hard at. The Samsung 8000 series. The Sharp has a Spectacular picture, the 8000 series Samsung has an Phenomenal picture. But... The price tag was about $500 more (for the 55"). 

The Vizio will now go to our bedroom and the Sharp resides on the wall (also the 1st TV I wall mounted. Was very easy and straightforward) 

Good luck


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Dec 28, 2012)

begreen said:


> No, the screen door effect is not scan lines, it's the undesirable black space between pixels, both vertical on horizontal. I see it right away on my friend's big LED Samsung, but only when closer than about 6' to the screen.


Im guessing that i can see the plasma lines at 3-5 Ft away.If it were closer it would not be a problem.


----------



## TMonter (Dec 28, 2012)

I've had a 40 inch Samsung for about 4 years now and we love it. I replaced a 10 year old 36" Sony Wega XBR withe the samsung 540 series which is only a 60Hz unit and since I don't watch sports even on movies I don't see a blur problem nor do I see any screen door effects since we sit at an optimal viewing distance.

I recommend setting up your system with this:

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1356735669&sr=1-2&keywords=video essentials

It helps a lot for watching movies.


----------



## begreen (Dec 29, 2012)

You're right, Samsung makes great LCD tvs. They were my second choice. With a 40-50" screen at 12 ft away or more, you don't really see the screen door effect. It's more apparent on projected images because of their larger size.

Another less engineer focused and more user friendly calibration disk is the World of Wonder:
http://www.amazon.com/Wow-Blu-ray-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1356807744&sr=1-1&keywords=world of wonder


----------



## HeatsTwice (Jan 28, 2013)

Samsung is having a 40% off 60" screen TVs and a bunch of other models.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs...282687&MKM_MID=1396083&CID=eml-ce-tv-0113-277

other 40% off deals:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs...282687&MKM_MID=1396083&CID=eml-ce-tv-0113-277
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs...282687&MKM_MID=1396083&CID=eml-ce-tv-0113-277
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs...282687&MKM_MID=1396083&CID=eml-ce-tv-0113-277


Funny story:

I was dropping my daughter off at the local J.C.. When I came back to my truck, someone had dumped a Samsung 57" TV in a cardboard box in the back of my truck. I thought, "Dang, now I have to recycle it, instead of the guy who dumped it there."

So I took it to a local TV shop and figured, that they would just take it off my hands since they probably recycle lots of TVs. They said are you sure it doesn't work? Duh, why would someone dump it in the back of my truck if it worked? So they plugged it in and sure enough, it did not work. So they checked the model number and found that the dang thing was under warrenty and that I could get it fixed for free. 4 hours later, I had a good looking new 57" Hi Res LCD in my living room. 100% off is better than 40% off.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Jan 28, 2013)

Saw a 50" Toshiba LED for $550 recently


----------



## jharkin (Sep 28, 2014)

Dig this one up from the dead.


My Trusy old Samsung... now 8 years old has had the power supply replaced once free due to a recall and is now dying the slow death.  Half the time we get green or no picture at turn on.  These things sure are not built like our early 80s Sony Trinitron that went decades 


So what brands do folks like now?   the reliability issues with the Samsung are giving me pause even though I know they make most of the actual panels.  I see in the reviews that old trusted brands like Sony and Panasonic are now down in the list unless you spend $$$$$ on their pro models, and now Vizio?? gets a lot of best buy ratings (looking at CNET, etc).


My gut tells me to stick the old name brands but my wallet doesn't want to spend money on a name if the quality is not there.  Looking for a 46-50 .. 50 if I can make it fit  (I have 45" +/- of horizontal space to fit where our existing 46 with a thick frame is so I think a thin frame 50 will squeeze in).  Since plasmas are giong away and the TV we ahve eats too much power already... and its a bright room -  I like the idea of a local dimming LED backlight LCD. I do want 24p compatible for the bluray but I imagine they all have that now?  Sound quality is irrelevant since we have a dedicated receiver surround system.

Budget wise I'd like to stay under a grand and I'm hoping to hold out for a good holiday season/black friday deal. I'd pay more for quality if there is a compelling buy but I'm _trying_ not to snobbishly disregard budget brands either

Right now surprisingly CNET is calling the Vizio E and M the top budget buys..  Ideas? Other picks?


** vEdit to add: I dont need a million inputs, I dont need 3D. I dont care about apps or smart TV features.   Literally just looking for the best image quality 50" monitor I can find under a grand.  We use the a/v reciever to control inputs and I get more streaming stuff than Ill ever use through the blueray player already.


----------



## Dix (Sep 28, 2014)

Green or no picture cam be the power supply or the panel failing. If it's the panel, it's going to be an expensive repair. if the panel is  / ever was available.

FYI, Sony is not Sony any more (most of the name brands have been sold ... that is the name has been sold to Asian companies, mostly). Panasonic is phasing out of the A/V business.

I would not buy a Vizio, very little support if any issues.


----------



## jharkin (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh yeah I know its probably the panel, definitely not economical to fix which is why im starting to research now before it dies.

In the past Id never give a brand like Vizio a second thought due to their past reputation... just surprised to see them rank so high up on a bunch of best TV lists... and surprised to see Samsung, Panasonic and Sony ranking only mid pack or lower with the exception of their multi-thousand high end stuff.


----------



## Dix (Sep 28, 2014)

Check out LG. I'm serious.


----------



## Retired Guy (Sep 28, 2014)

Over the summer we bought 2wo Samsund LED TVs. Small ones, 19, and 27, but we are impressed with the picture and especially the sound - not tinny at all. If I were looking for a larger one I would seriously consider Samsung.


----------



## jharkin (Sep 28, 2014)

Samsung would have been on the top of the list if not for how many issues we have had with our existing set (including the power supply issues that went to a class action suit and recall).  If I could believe it was a one off and I can expect to get more than 5-8 years out of a new one without a failure I'll look at Samsung again.


----------



## Dix (Sep 28, 2014)

*shrieks and carry's on *

Stay away from Samsung. One of the worst companies I deal with for warranty work, 3rd party, etc.


----------



## jharkin (Sep 28, 2014)

Thats why I said in  my starting post... Im wary of Samsung because of the bad experience I had with the current one we own.  Might be RetiredGuy missed that line....


The mrs is downloading the Consumer Reports TV buying guide so we can see what they have to say.  Online reviews are all over the map.....

ETA... As I read it seems like the local dimming thing turned out to be a fad that didn't really live up to the claim (plasma like black levels).. Ive been out of the loop and need to catch up on the tech.


----------



## pen (Sep 28, 2014)

When I bought my first some years back, I told each sales person that I wanted a TV that would give me the same 22 years service that my console had without issue (still working at 95% when I sent it to recycling)..... Long story short, everyone laughed, and several asked if I remembered the cost of the one that gave me 22 years service ( I actually only used it for about 14 or 15 years, and paid a buck an inch for it at auction as a kid working there)........ Point is, even what seems like a pricey TV today, is dirt cheap compared to what they used to cost new, and the price difference is reflected in the longevity.

We have 5 or 6 years on an LG unit now that we have been very happy with, no problems.  Also 2 Sansui units that are about 3 years old now that have been great.  A vizio that is about 2 years old that was cheap and is near the woodstove (why we went cheap) and so far it's held up to living in that environment.

In short, I'm certain some units are better than others on the market, but I think expecting 20+ years out of any of them sold now is foolishness.  We went with the LG's and Sansui's as a local store (Olums) guaranteed if they needed work that it would happen in house, and that the big box places sent everything out to XYZ.  Now, even then I knew it probably would never be worth having one fixed, but my family has bought a ton from them over the years and they've been great so, I stuck with what has worked.  We bought the vizio since it was cheap and we knew where it lives would be tough on any unit, so anything we get out of the unit past what it has held up to already, is bonus in our book.

pen


----------



## velvetfoot (Sep 28, 2014)

Our Toshiba 36" has been going strong at 8 years old.  I wonder if the larger ones are as reliable as the smaller ones?


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 28, 2014)

Invalid wife's TV runs 24/7. Burns up one every two years like clockwork. This time I bought a Vizio from Walmart and my first extended warranty. Full replacement for four years for not too many dollars. I will see how good it is in 14 months.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Sep 29, 2014)

We have a 1 yr old 70" Vizio,  a 6 yr old 55"  Samsung and a 4 yr old 32" Insignia (best buy toshiba knock off)  All working good . Also got the WM 4 yr ext warranty
on the 70(cost $120) as we only paid $900 on Black friday for the set.


----------



## bassJAM (Sep 29, 2014)

Does your Samsung make clicking noises while trying to turn on?  My 7 year old Samsung died like that several years ago. I was told it needed a new power supply, but I actually found some how-to video's on Youtube on how to fix it with just a couple bucks worth of capacitors.  I guess it's a very common problem with the Samsung TV's from that era for the old capacitors to blow.  Took me maybe 30 minutes to fix, and it's still working fine!

I think Samsung and LG are still considered the top "premium" TV's, but I think they're probably all very similar by now.  Some are more thin, but that doesn't really matter to me.  Some are more "smart" than others, but with a ROKU you can make any TV smart.  I picked up a 50" LED LCD refurbed Toshiba a couple years ago that I'm very happy with.  I've got a friend who bought a Visio maybe 4 years ago, and it still works fine so I wouldn't count them out either.

If you've got some time, check out Woot.com.  It's a website that sells only a handful of items, and most are only on sale for 24 hours.  Just about every 2 weeks or so some LCD TV's show up for very good prices, that's where I got my Toshiba from.


----------



## bsruther (Sep 29, 2014)

We recently got a Samsung 50" LED for the stove room. The picture is excellent, but the function and apps response to the remote leaves a lot to be desired. And if I'm watching the netflix app, I can forget about adjusting the picture because the menu and tools screen won't even display. The cheap vizio in the bedroom is way more responsive than the samsung. Seriously considering getting a chromecast for the samsung and be done with the "smart" part of it.


----------



## firefighterjake (Sep 29, 2014)

I've got a plasma Panasonic in the living room and smaller Panasonic LCD TV in the master bedroom . . . they're still working fine.


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Sep 29, 2014)

Its hard to find a better picture than a samsung. Only because the Samsung was twice as much (70"samsung  $2000 vs $900 vizio 70") did i settle for the vizio. For the price i cant complain about the vizio. Looks great in HD . Time will tell how long it will last.


----------



## bassJAM (Sep 29, 2014)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Its hard to find a better picture than a samsung.



That probably is true.  I bought my 42" LCD Samsung back in 2006.  When I got the 50" Toshiba in 2013 I spent hours trying to tune the picture, but still can't get it to match the vivid colors of the Samsung.  Both are 1080p.  It's not that the Toshiba has a bad picture, but even my wife (who claims she doesn't notice the difference between high def and standard def) will say something about the Samsung's better picture quality if we switch rooms and go from one TV to the other in the middle of a show.


----------



## begreen (Sep 29, 2014)

I did an A/B comparison with many sets when I got our latest Panny. The Panasonic was notably sharper in action shots and up-rezzing 720i source material. However, the Samsung did have a bit more even illumination and a very nice picture. Then I made the mistake of looking at 4K and large OLED with high-rez source material. Don't do that.


----------



## Retired Guy (Sep 29, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Thats why I said in  my starting post... Im wary of Samsung because of the bad experience I had with the current one we own.  Might be RetiredGuy missed that line....
> 
> 
> The mrs is downloading the Consumer Reports TV buying guide so we can see what they have to say.  Online reviews are all over the map.....
> ...


Didn't miss the line, just noting my experience. Each set was under $275 and are about the cheapest color TV's that I have ever bought.


----------



## jharkin (Sep 29, 2014)

Gotcha... Its not that I dont like the Samsung's picture... our existing set is nice when it works.  Just that this TV and my Samsung tablet... the only 2 Samsung products Ive ever bought have both been nothing but trouble 

And the latest news on Panasonic is that they are considering leaving the TV business altogether, so that's another one off the list (which otherwise Id consider a top choice).


----------



## BrotherBart (Sep 29, 2014)

I thought of this thread today when I took a load of stuff to the landfill. Over in the area where they take electronics was easily 1/4 of an acre of big screen TV sets three high on pallets side by side. Wished I had a camera with me.

Last year when my wife's 32" flat screen ate a power supply I asked the guy there if they got a lot of the things. "Oh yeah we do."


----------



## Seasoned Oak (Oct 1, 2014)

Anyone see the new  OLED set by LG. Stunning. 1080P but looks ,more like the 4K UHD sets and is compatible with all current devices and content. Price is about the same as 4K sets.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 3, 2014)

Our 52" Sharp Aquos LED is almost 5 years old now, I think, and it's still going strong. Sees a lot of use. Haven't kept up on this stuff since we got it - where's Sharp on the list these days? Never know when stuff will hit the fan & will have to find something new in a hurry...


----------



## Dix (Oct 5, 2014)

BrotherBart said:


> I thought of this thread today when I took a load of stuff to the landfill. Over in the area where they take electronics was easily 1/4 of an acre of big screen TV sets three high on pallets side by side. Wished I had a camera with me.
> 
> Last year when my wife's 32" flat screen ate a power supply I asked the guy there if they got a lot of the things. "Oh yeah we do."



They are built to be throw aways. Sad.


----------



## TMonter (Oct 5, 2014)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> They are built to be throw aways. Sad.



The tech changes so fast is why. Even for flat screens technology has come a tremendous way since the early 2000's.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 11, 2014)

Well I'll be dipped!!

Did some more investigation and i believe the TV is fine afterall! now I suspect the HDMI board of the av receiver is going bad. Signs are that I see the TV overlay OK over the green lines and sometimes the receiver won't get the input from the dvd .


Hmm. Turns out this is a common problem on Onkyo receiver which is what I have.


Still gonna cost but a lot cheaper than the TV.


----------



## bsruther (Oct 12, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Well I'll be dipped!!
> 
> Did some more investigation and i believe the TV is fine afterall! now I suspect the HDMI board of the av receiver is going bad. Signs are that I see the TV overlay OK over the green lines and sometimes the receiver won't get the input from the dvd .
> 
> ...


We have an Onkyo 5.1 in the basement. Nice sound, but a bit much at times. Chose to go with a Polk soundbar for the living room tv and couldn't be happier.
The sound quality is great and I can actually hear the dialogue over the movie background noise without turning the volume up so loud that it makes my ears bleed.
And the commercials don't make me jump out of my chair when they come on.


----------



## Retired Guy (Oct 12, 2014)

bsruther said:


> We have an Onkyo 5.1 in the basement. Nice sound, but a bit much at times. Chose to go with a Polk soundbar for the living room tv and couldn't be happier.
> The sound quality is great and I can actually hear the dialogue over the movie background noise without turning the volume up so loud that it makes my ears bleed.
> And the commercials don't make me jump out of my chair when they come on.


I ofter have trouble separating dialog from background and am pleased to learn that soundbars may be an answer for me. Polk has models from $99 to $650. Which end of that range did you get?


----------



## bsruther (Oct 12, 2014)

Retired Guy said:


> I ofter have trouble separating dialog from background and am pleased to learn that soundbars may be an answer for me. Polk has models from $99 to $650. Which end of that range did you get?


I got this one.
http://www.polkaudio.com/surroundbar-5000-instant-home-theater/d/1210
Did a lot of research and determined it was the best bar for the buck. Went to Best Buy and tested it against others and it sounded as good as the higher priced ones they had displayed. Got it online for 300. Music sounds pretty good through it too.

Oh yeah, and the wireless sub woofer is really nice too.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 12, 2014)

The sound bars get around that problem of quiet dialog because they have poor dynamic range (i.e. they dont reproduce much of the low and mid base so all you are left with is the midrange and high freqs and they dont overpower dialog).

You can easily fix it on your A/V receiver if it has a dynamic volume function.  Some call it simply dynamic volume, Onkyo calls it "Late night mode"


----------



## bsruther (Oct 12, 2014)

jharkin said:


> The sound bars get around that problem of quiet dialog because they have poor dynamic range (i.e. they dont reproduce much of the low and mid base so all you are left with is the midrange and high freqs and they dont overpower dialog).
> 
> You can easily fix it on your A/V receiver if it has a dynamic volume function.  Some call it simply dynamic volume, Onkyo calls it "Late night mode"


Don't want to diddle with settings, just want to turn it on and go and the soundbar does that just fine.

I wish I could find the settings on my receiver that keep the blaring commercials from blasting me.


----------



## jharkin (Oct 16, 2014)

jharkin said:


> Hmm. Turns out this is a common problem on Onkyo receiver which is what I have.
> 
> Still gonna cost but a lot cheaper than the TV.




To close the loop on my issue.  The Onkyo definitely has a failing HDMI board.  They apparently have had so many problems with these parts and overheating issues there is a mass recall on all 2009-2012 units.  Of course mine is a year to old to qualify.

SO!  I broke down and replaced it with a new Marantz slimline 5channel a/v receiver.  It doesn't have nearly the bells and whistles of the old Onkyo but still does more than I need, plus it came with a 3 year warranty and cost brand new a lot less than I paid for the old onkyo as a refurb with 1yr.  I still had a bit of trouble with the DVD/BD but turning off deep color fixed that. 


Anyone want a 7.1 Onkyo reciever with a bad video section? still works fine for audio


----------

