# Is my chimney too hot?? help



## grizburner (Sep 1, 2010)

Hello everyone, I joined up to ask you a question on my new stove.  I had this stove professionally installed and recently fired it up for its first fire.  I am concerned about my chimney getting too hot.  The pipe from the stove is black and appears to be a single wall pipe and I expect it to be hot.  This pipe then goes through a wall and joins a wider diameter, polished stainless pipe which I presume is insulated and double walled.  It then runs through a guest room upstairs before going through the roof.

With a normal firing burning, the stainless pipe in the upstairs room is very hot to the touch.  I can brush my hand on it briefly without burning my self, but if I kept it there any longer I would likely get burned.  It is definitely not safe for children which will be a likely scenario for me. 

Is this normal? How hot does your insulated chimney become?  Can I enclose this chimney safely (label says 2 inch minimum clearance to combustibles)


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## begreen (Sep 1, 2010)

We have class A passing up through a second floor. It gets warm, but never so hot that I would be concerned about a quick touch causing a burn. It would be good to know what the flue temps are coming out of the stove. Is there a thermometer on the flue pipe about 12" above the stove? Is so, what temperature is that pipe?


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## summit (Sep 1, 2010)

put a thermo onto it, see what it reads.


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## PapaDave (Sep 1, 2010)

I've been in the attic as the fire is burning in the stove, and the class A is only warm to the touch. I can keep my hand on it.
The stove pipe, however, is off limits.


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## polaris (Sep 1, 2010)

PapaDave said:
			
		

> I've been in the attic as the fire is burning in the stove, and the class A is only warm to the touch. I can keep my hand on it.
> The stove pipe, however, is off limits.


    Ditto.
    Joe


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 1, 2010)

My chimney runs along the outside wall of the house. When burning good in the winter months I too can put my hand there but can not hold it there because of the heat and this is outdoors! No, I've never checked the temperature there as I don't think I'd get a true reading with just a thermometer.


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## vvvv (Sep 1, 2010)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> My chimney runs along the outside wall of the house. When burning good in the winter months I too can put my hand there but can not hold it there because of the heat and this is outdoors! No, I've never checked the temperature there as I don't think I'd get a true reading with just a thermometer.


 paint a black spot on it & use the IR thermometer gun


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## Backwoods Savage (Sep 1, 2010)

That is why I stated about a thermometer. Not too many of us have the IR gun.


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## 70marlin (Sep 1, 2010)

Doesn't it have to be enclosed if it passes thru a living space?


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## Danno77 (Sep 1, 2010)

70marlin said:
			
		

> Doesn't it have to be enclosed if it passes thru a living space?


that's my understanding. Also, it sounds like the black-pipe goes through the wall? I hope I'm reading that wrong.


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## oldspark (Sep 1, 2010)

Danno77 said:
			
		

> 70marlin said:
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 That's what it says and also he is assuming the SS pipe is insulated.


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## SKIN052 (Sep 1, 2010)

Simple answer here, yes! If you are concerned it is too hot, then it is too hot. Allot of common sense can be applied to wood burning. Get it checked by someone with experiance.


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## colebrookman (Sep 1, 2010)

Check your bill.What kind of pipe did you pay for?  Don't assume, be safe.


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## begreen (Sep 1, 2010)

Post pictures if you are unsure. Something sounds amuck.


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## Fsappo (Sep 1, 2010)

It does need to be enclosed.  It would be good to know the type of stove, surface temp of the stove, surface temp of the single wall pipe and surface temp of the pipe upstairs.  Also, get us a photo of the ceiling box and what it looks like up stairs.  it "sounds" like it is getting two hot, but in the name of safety lets get some more data


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## Ratman (Sep 1, 2010)

SKIN052 said:
			
		

> Simple answer here, yes! If you are concerned it is too hot, then it is too hot. Allot of common sense can be applied to wood burning. Get it checked by someone with experiance.



Best answer!


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## grizburner (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I will get some pictures up soon.  As far as temperature, I don't know...is there a special way to record the temp?


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## SKIN052 (Sep 2, 2010)

grizburner said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies everyone.  I will get some pictures up soon.  As far as temperature, I don't know...is there a special way to record the temp?


The way you did it was fine. The black pipe is going to be too hot to touch. As long as it goes into a stainless steel looking pipe before passing through a wall then you should be good. The stainless steel pipe can be warm to the touch, but should not burn you. 

Be safe.


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## grizburner (Sep 2, 2010)

SKIN052 said:
			
		

> grizburner said:
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yes, this is my concern, the stainless pipe seems extraordinarily hot, I can only stand to place my hand on it for about a second before I feel like I might get burned and I remove my hand. 

It sounds like from most of you that the stainless pipe should only be luke warm or so to the touch, so I think I have a problem.  I think I will hold off until I can have the installers come check it out.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2010)

If the class A is very hot, something is not correct and your concerns are justified. The question is why? If everything checks out, it could be a bad piece of class A pipe in which the insulation failed, settled or is missing. That's pretty rare, but who knows at this point. What is the stove make and model?

Pictures will help us look out for installation problems. Do you have a thermometer on the stove or connector (flue) pipe. Knowing what temps the stove connector pipe is at will also help. You are probably burning fine, but it would be good to be sure that you are not overfiring the stove. Also, is there a label on the stainless pipe? If so, please look for and report what it says for UL, or temp specification.


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## grizburner (Sep 2, 2010)

Here are some pics of my setup...








Downstairs






upstairs


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2010)

Ugh. That is a long horizontal run. Is that where the pipe is getting hot? How is the temp on the pipe in the room above? 

Also, is that single wall pipe coming into the thimble? If so, how far is it from the top of the single-wall pipe to the ceiling?

If it is single-wall, it appears to have been installed backward.


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## fossil (Sep 2, 2010)

Third pic down is sideways, I think.  Needs to be tilted 90° CCW to be correctly oriented.


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## grizburner (Sep 2, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Third pic down is sideways, I think.  Needs to be tilted 90° CCW to be correctly oriented.



yes the third pic was sideways, but I fixed it.



pretty much all of my pipe is hot as far as I can tell, upon first firing, the single-walled pipe gets hot first while the stainless is still cool, but once the fire gets going, the double-walled pipe becomes very hot, both upstairs and down.

it is about 8 or 9 inches from the ceiling to the top of the single-walled pipe.  

The system seems to draft just fine, I have to leave the door open just a crack to get it started, but once the chimney warms it draws just fine with the door and draft closed.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2010)

Besides being installed backward, the single wall installation is not up to code and would be my greatest concern from what is showing. It needs a 'minimum' of 18" between it and the ceiling. This installation should have a double-wall connector pipe to reduce the ceiling clearance requirement down to 6". Also, Simpson says that the thimble is supposed to project 6" of class A into the room. ICC says 4". That seems to be another issue. It would be good to confirm there are firestops at the ceiling penetration points and a radiation shield in the attic.  It's a very neat looking job, but there appear to be some essential safety errors. 

http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/icc/insta...-chimney-ultrablack-exceliner-excelpellet-ris


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## SKIN052 (Sep 2, 2010)

I really hate to knock someone’s set up but something does not look right. I know you do not want to hear that after spending so much $$$. I would have a hard time believing that a WETT certified inspector would pass that installation. Not sure what the cost is to have someone professionally come take a look at it, a WETT inspector or fire marshal maybe? Would be worth the piece of mind if it were me. Do not get the same company to come back until you have another opinion and some research under your belt.


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## jtp10181 (Sep 2, 2010)

IMO that black pipe looks like double wall to me. But the Class A still does not come into the room far enough past the thimble, the black pipe gets too close to the wall in this situation.

Its a very clean and professional looking install, just a few safety issues as others have pointed out.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks jtp. Looking at it again this morning. If that is ultra-black, then it would be double-wall pipe and installed correctly, not backwards and the ceiling clearance is ok. 

The question of whether or not it is too hot remains. Some downdraft stove owners have reported high flue temps.  This is top quality pipe, so we need more information about the stove make and model and actual temperature readings.


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## Pagey (Sep 2, 2010)

Before I had my Class A enclosed, I found that it was "hot" to the touch.  But you have to keep in mind what exactly "hot" means.  Hot to the touch and dangerously hot can be two different things.  Water boils at 212F at sea level, and boiling water will certainly blister a man's skin.  But 212F is not "hot" as far as flue gases go.  In fact, most of what I've read states that you want flue gases at 250F to minimize condensation inside the flue.

Now, though my Class A was "hot" as far as my hand was concerned, I believe the 2" CTC is easily safe.  You'd have to have something resting against the pipe to concern me.  Holding my hand 2" away would have left me feeling almost nothing.

The only way to know for sure how hot that pipe is is to get an accurate reading from it's surface.


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## grizburner (Sep 2, 2010)

The stove is an Enviro Kodiak 1200.  I will start research on taking surface temperatures.


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## begreen (Sep 2, 2010)

I would expect the Kodiak to have moderate flue temps in the 400 °F range. Real temps will help, even if they are from a simple stove top thermometer.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 3, 2010)

the tee can not be hanging like that  it is supposed to have a support with it to support the weight of the system two the chimney needs to be enclosed in a living area, was the stove or the pipe smoking when you started a fire in it if not it has really not gotten that hot. but that install really dosent meet code i would call some one to come out and look at it and not the guy who pit it in!


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## grizburner (Sep 3, 2010)

yes, the stove was smoking upon first firing during the curing process. 

For those that might know, is it possible for hot flue gases to leak into the outer, insulated part of the double walled pipe?

When we get some cooler weather again, I will see about getting some temp data.


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## North of 60 (Sep 3, 2010)

Your wall thimble and the amount of class A pipe coming into the room still needs to be addressed for sure. The rest doesn't bother me to much. It will all work but the thimble is a fire hazard for sure.  Welcome aboard.

Your gonna have fun cleaning that set up though.


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## grizburner (Sep 3, 2010)

the tee at the verticle piece has a removable bottom to facilitate cleaning, I presume.








The pipe coming out of the stove just may be double walled...see pic and let me know what you think....the bottom surface in the pic is the stove itself.


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## begreen (Sep 3, 2010)

Yes, that looks like double-wall. jtp has a well-trained eye.


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## North of 60 (Sep 3, 2010)

grizburner said:
			
		

> the tee at the verticle piece has a removable bottom to facilitate cleaning, I presume.





Yes your vertical pipe will be easy to clean. Its the horizontal that will be a PITA every time you disassemble the 90 above the stove. Now if you have to enclose that tee and piping to meet code as others say, make sure a decent access door is provided.
;-)


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 3, 2010)

grizburner said:
			
		

> yes, the stove was smoking upon first firing during the curing process.
> 
> For those that might know, is it possible for hot flue gases to leak into the outer, insulated part of the double walled pipe?
> 
> When we get some cooler weather again, I will see about getting some temp data.


no it  is not possible unless the chimney in not put together right or is damaged you really need to adress the way tha the tee and horizotal lenght is installed it is not safe! if it slips or becomes disconneted it could be very dangerous


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## begreen (Sep 3, 2010)

Is there an additional support bracket at the floor level upstairs?


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## grizburner (Sep 3, 2010)

fossil said:
			
		

> Third pic down is sideways, I think.  Needs to be tilted 90° CCW to be correctly oriented.



Yes, there is a bracket at the floor level upstairs.  The system feels very solid, so I'm not too concerned its going to come down.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 3, 2010)

are you talking about the bracket that you can see in the pic that is attached to the block of wood or is there anther one down lower?


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## grizburner (Sep 4, 2010)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> are you talking about the bracket that you can see in the pic that is attached to the block of wood or is there anther one down lower?



No, there is another bracket down lower, its attached to the actual floor.


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## stoveguy13 (Sep 4, 2010)

is it attached to the tee if so it should be fine if not you want to have them move it so it is


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## vvvv (Sep 4, 2010)

small fan blowing on horizontal pipe would cool it? blow on doublewall would cool better & avert the proximity to wall issue?


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## North of 60 (Sep 4, 2010)

BLIMP said:
			
		

> small fan blowing on horizontal pipe would cool it? blow on doublewall would cool better & avert the proximity to wall issue?



Fix it right as stove will be running the hottest when power is out, therefor no working fan me thinx.
 Signed, Genus.


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## jtp10181 (Sep 21, 2010)

stoveguy13 said:
			
		

> is it attached to the tee if so it should be fine if not you want to have them move it so it is



It is not required for the support bracket to be connected to the Tee. Download any install manual and you will see. For simpson duravent Class A pipe you can use a Tee support bracket above or below the Tee, connected to the Tee itself or the next section of pipe above or below. You can also use a "wing" support which I think is called an "adjustable roof support" in the catalog. This can be placed ANYWHERE in the vent system (even on the roof under the flashing, hence the name) and supports up to 60ft of chimney. I am guessing he has a wing style support mounted to the floor of the room in question. That is how I would plan out that install.

Like I said before, very pro looking install except they overlooked the minimum penetration of the Class A through the wall before connecting connector pipe. I would call and bring this to thier attention ASAP.


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