# Got trailer... need winch



## Ashful (Jan 25, 2017)

I'd love to stop cutting every log I process into individual rounds, to load them onto my trailer and haul home, but need a way to easily get logs up onto my Big Tex Vanguard 70TV trailer:






Since I mostly haul larger stuff, I always run out of weight capacity (7000# gross minus 1850# curb = 5150# payload) at a single course of wood, so there's not much need for stacking.  This makes a simple winch on the front of the trailer, with a snatch block from front top rail pretty practical for dragging wood up into the trailer.  Log diameter varies 24" up to 48", and will be cut some even fraction of the 16' bed length, depending on weight and diameter (I skid them out of the woods with a Ford 3000 tractor).

Obstacles:

1.  I do not believe the front wall or rail of the trailer can handle the pulling loads.  A winch mounted on the tongue assembly may do well, but the resulting downward load of feeding the cable up thru a block on the top rail will also likely cause damage.

2.  Without some sort of rig to lift the log, I'll be dragging it up the tailgate a bit.  The choker on the log will always want to spin toward the top side of the log, I suspect.  The solution may be as simple as covering the expanded metal on the tailgate with wood when skidding, or another block mounted up high farther toward the rear of the trailer.  Looking for ideas.

3.  I'd rather not run high-amperage cabling from the battery of my truck to the trailer.  Knowing duty cycle will be low, the average current draw will be a fraction of the actual running current draw, and I may do well with a battery on the trailer being charged through the parking light circuit.  No issues on resolving this myself, but would like to hear experience from those who've actually done this, or similar.


----------



## KD0AXS (Jan 25, 2017)

How about mounting the winch on the tongue, then cutting a hole in the front wall and install a fairlead on the inside of the wall.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 25, 2017)

KD0AXS said:


> How about mounting the winch on the tongue, then cutting a hole in the front wall and install a fairlead on the inside of the wall.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk



Yep. The answer. And don't think you need a monster winch to to do it.


----------



## BrotherBart (Jan 25, 2017)

Of course you over kill everything so...


----------



## rwhite (Jan 26, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I'd love to stop cutting every log I process into individual rounds, to load them onto my trailer and haul home, but need a way to easily get logs up onto my Big Tex Vanguard 70TV trailer:
> 
> View attachment 193439
> 
> ...


----------



## Jags (Jan 26, 2017)

Not sure if it will help in any way but...the old.timers used ramps on the side and "rolled" the logs on.  Just mentioning an alternate option.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 26, 2017)

How do you plan on unloading?


----------



## Sean McGillicuddy (Jan 26, 2017)

Jags said:


> Not sure if it will help in any way but...the old.timers used ramps on the side and "rolled" the logs on.  Just mentioning an alternate option.



Now you need wiches for the sides!


----------



## greg13 (Jan 26, 2017)

You would be better off using a roller on the top of the front rather than using a hole through it. You will need some lift angle to clear the gate, otherwise the log will snag it and hang on it.

Greg


----------



## jetsam (Jan 29, 2017)

If you have enough wenches, you can just tell them to load the trailer and call you when it's done.

Also.... Eeeeeeeeeee! Look how CUTE.

Well, this thread now has several ways that it could cost me a divorce...


----------



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2017)

Lol, jetsam.  But the link was "404 not found"!


----------



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2017)

Jags said:


> Not sure if it will help in any way but...the old.timers used ramps on the side and "rolled" the logs on.  Just mentioning an alternate option.



Yeah, if moving by man or one horsepower, that seems to be the way to go, and the same motion could be replicated by tractor.  But I bought the solid side trailer, based on having always moved wood as rounds, not logs.  Sort of shot that method down, in the process, I think.


----------



## jetsam (Jan 29, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Lol, jetsam.  But the link was "404 not found"!



Woop, forgot about the Google URL encoding. Fixed.

You may not thank me for it- those look expensive.


----------



## maple1 (Jan 29, 2017)

So - how do you plan on unloading?


----------



## greg13 (Jan 29, 2017)

Boy, Our customers could destroy those!!


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 29, 2017)

jetsam said:


> If you have enough wenches, you can just tell them to load the trailer and call you when it's done.
> 
> Also.... Eeeeeeeeeee! Look how CUTE.
> 
> Well, this thread now has several ways that it could cost me a divorce...


That link might cost me some money....lol


----------



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2017)

maple1 said:


> So - how do you plan on unloading?


I have many options, one of which could be running a choker from back end of log thru a block attached to a tree or other suitable anchor, and back to the winch.  Easier would be just dragging them off with a choker and my tractor.  I have suitable tractors at both locations.

@jetsam, I love the grapples!  Unfortunately, I'm moving logs that sometimes weigh over 3000#.  A grapple that will handle that weight is going to be mighty spendy.


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 29, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I have many options, one of which could be running a choker from back end of log thru a block attached to a tree or other suitable anchor, and back to the winch.  Easier would be just dragging them off with a choker and my tractor.  I have suitable tractors at both locations.
> 
> @jetsam, I love the grapples!  Unfortunately, I'm moving logs that sometimes weigh over 3000#.  A grapple that will handle that weight is going to be mighty spendy.


Tight wad...lol


----------



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> Tight wad...lol


I'm sure that this whole woodburning thing is not saving me money, but I'm still clinging to the hope it won't cost me MORE than burning oil!


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 29, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I'm sure that this whole woodburning thing is not saving me money, but I'm still clinging to the hope it won't cost me MORE than burning oil!


I figure I am not there yet on my return...but close...if I can just refrain from any new wood processing gadgets I will be set!


----------



## Ashful (Jan 29, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I figure I am not there yet on my return...but close...if I can just refrain from any new wood processing gadgets I will be set!


The "if" is why I stopped counting, after the first few years.  I started small, with a single chainsaw and splitting maul.  Then there were a few more saws, safety gear, and cant hook.  Then I got a nice little utility trailer to pull behind the garden tractor.  Then the Deere MFWD diesel tractor with front-end loader.  Then offroad 2-link chains for all four tires, and skidding gear.  Then a log splitter.  Then that 7000# tandem-axle trailer.  Now I'm looking for a heavier truck to pull the trailer easier...

The wood shed I have planned, at 25' x 35' (so I can fit the trailer under roof), is going to blow any hope of this ever being a profitable endeavor.


----------



## jetsam (Jan 30, 2017)

Well, now I feel less guilty. I'm only in for 2 chainsaws, a splitter, and a $300 Craigslist trailer.

Though now I might need a $7000 grapple for my $300 trailer....


----------



## kavu (Jan 30, 2017)

jetsam said:


> Well, now I feel less guilty. I'm only in for 2 chainsaws, a splitter, and a $300 Craigslist trailer.
> Though now I might need a $7000 grapple for my $300 trailer....


I am somewhere in the middle. Electric log splitter, 22 ton log splitter, 2 chainsaws and may be looking to replace one chainsaw since its broken. 2 mauls, wedges, sledgehammer, fiskar x25, dump cart and presently eyeing up a trailer to haul wood in. lol I have been doing this for 10 years though. This is an expensive hobby lol

and hello neighbor!


----------



## maple1 (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm not sure I see much advantage to not cutting into rounds first. It's something you have to do anyway. Then you could split off the trailer while unloading. Or, split before you load - then unload from trailer right to where it will be stacked. I like getting it into the small easy to move pieces ASAP.

Comes down to your whole setup though. Plus also I guess there might be time constraints, in getting the logs out of wherever they are quickly? Or just not being able to process in place.

I'm think you'll need a good sized winch though, to get logs drug up & on the trailer. And a pretty high fairlead roller thingie. And the back end of your trailer will likely take a beating.


----------



## Sean McGillicuddy (Jan 30, 2017)

kavu said:


> I am somewhere in the middle. Electric log splitter, 22 ton log splitter, 2 chainsaws and may be looking to replace one chainsaw since its broken. 2 mauls, wedges, sledgehammer, fiskar x25, dump cart and presently eyeing up a trailer to haul wood in. lol I have been doing this for 10 years though. This is an expensive hobby lol
> 
> and hello neighbor!



Your healthier and it's better than going to the gym ( less the cuties )


----------



## kavu (Jan 30, 2017)

Sean McGillicuddy said:


> Your healthier and it's better than going to the gym ( less the cuties )


That is true. The first 6 years i broke by hand then used the electric to make them small. After i got the 22 ton, it made things a lot easier. Less physical but i can always use the fiskar to get some exercise. Splitting wood and cuties would be great. We need one of those gyms


----------



## byQ (Feb 2, 2017)

Something like this might work. He is lifting logs with a 2500 lb Harbor Freight winch. It is barely doing the job but he gets them loaded. I wonder where one can get the swinging vertical metal pole like this? And I wonder how hard it would be to attach this pole so it could pick up/move a log without bending? He really saves himself a lot of work.


----------



## Tar12 (Feb 2, 2017)

The question would be how long will the battery last.....


----------



## Ashful (Feb 2, 2017)

byQ said:


> Something like this might work. He is lifting logs with a 2500 lb Harbor Freight winch. It is barely doing the job but he gets them loaded. I wonder where one can get the swinging vertical metal pole like this? And I wonder how hard it would be to attach this pole so it could pick up/move a log without bending? He really saves himself a lot of work.



Fun to watch, but his "max" log is smaller than anything I've ever hauled.  Mine are several times that weight.

No plans on lifting, here.  When logs are 3000 lb., you're best just dragging 'em!


----------



## jetsam (Feb 2, 2017)

That guy would save himself a lot of time and effort by backing up to his log and lifting the end up 6" onto the trailer.

Better yet, he could just buck it before lifting it, which he presumably is going to do anyway.

I could see having a little winch to drag large (36"+) rounds up into my trailer, but it's not too hard to roll them up the ramp if they are kind of round.

If it's an "easy" big round, sometimes I will just split it to make it easier to lift, too. I always pack a maul with my saws for that purpose.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 3, 2017)

@jetsam, I don't completely agree that it's easier rolling rounds.  Too many of mine are out-of-round with buttress roots or other abnormalities, and they can be very heavy.  I'm hauling oak, bucked to 18 inches:

40" round = 825 lb.
44" round = 998 lb.
48" round = 1188 lb.
54" round = 1502 lb.

If I can drag these up onto the trailer as a single log, I'd much rather do that than push them up my 4' tailgate ramp, which is what I've been doing.  I imagine when I get the big'uns (eg. over 48"), I might still be dragging single rounds, but the 24" to 40" stuff can be dragged up as perhaps 8 foot logs (24" x 8' = 1583 lb), and anything under 24" could be dragged up as 16 foot logs (12" x 16' = 792 lb.).  My trailer box (shown above) is 16' long.


----------



## jetsam (Feb 3, 2017)

Ashful said:


> @jetsam, I don't completely agree that it's easier rolling rounds.  Too many of mine are out-of-round with buttress roots or other abnormalities, and they can be very heavy.  I'm hauling oak, bucked to 18 inches:
> 
> 40" round = 825 lb.
> 44" round = 998 lb.
> ...



I love the way you did a table with sample diameter-to-weight calculations. I think we might be related.

Where did you get 63 lbs/cf?

My ideas are probably influenced by the fact that my trailer is single axle with lowish leaf springs. I try not to put more than ~2000 pounds on it.

A decent sized winch is going to require either a wire all the way from the fuse box, or its own battery and a charge controller to trickle charge it off the taillight circuit. I imagine that's something trailer winch vendors have figured out, though.

I might consider just a 20-40w solar panel to keep a charge on it,since the trailer parks in the open and sees only occasional use. Save me some wiring!


----------



## Ashful (Feb 3, 2017)

jetsam said:


> I love the way you did a table with sample diameter-to-weight calculations. I think we might be related.
> 
> Where did you get 63 lbs/cf?
> 
> ...


The 63 lb/cu.ft. is a number I've been using for years.  I think I got it from averaging the green weight of several of the oak species we have in this area.

Yes, I have a battery on the trailer, used to activate the trailer brakes in event of a hitch failure.  I think I might need to upgrade that to a larger deep-cycle battery, sized to handle the peak/average ratio of current draw on that winch, versus the charging circuit already run to the trailer thru my 6-point plug.


----------



## byQ (Feb 3, 2017)

How about an arch to go with your winch?


----------



## maple1 (Feb 3, 2017)

There's using your noodle...


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Feb 3, 2017)

byQ said:


> How about an arch to go with your winch?






byQ said:


> How about an arch to go with your winch?




I think a call to social services is in order. Having your toddler check the tension of the cable at work at least deserves a Darwin award nomination.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 3, 2017)

byQ said:


> How about an arch to go with your winch?



I like that.  In fact, an arch like that was my "plan A", but I hadn't seen a good place to attach one on the top rails of my trailer.  I like his idea of using the gate attachment pintels, which works surprisingly well.  I'd have thought the arch pivot would need to be farther forward on the trailer to work very well, but I was wrong on that.  The only thing I don't like about this is that it means pulling off my very heavy gate to install the arch, and then hauling without a gate, unless I'm going to swap them back and forth for each run.

I came up with this "plan B", because I lacked the foresight to think of using the gate hinge points.  I think this could work fairly well.  I'd be dragging more than lifting, but with the winch up high like this, it also gives me a place to tuck a large deep-cycle battery.





Maybe the best plan is to get that winch mounted up high, as shown in this photo, then consider the arch as phase 2.


----------



## jetsam (Feb 4, 2017)

I like the arch, but I think it'd be simpler for me to have a frame-mounted winch in front, and drag the logs up a ramp in the rear. If you have a landscaping style tailgate, maybe screw a piece of plywood over it for easy sliding.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 10, 2017)

Need to get moving on this.  Ready to buy, now.  What size winch, and why?  I'm inclined to just go big, as I'm worried about duty cycle and loaded speed, if I go too small.  I'd rather spend a few extra dollars for a 12,500 lb. winch, than wait an extra several minutes per log for a 4000 lb. winch, but the big'uns do come with the penalty that I could easily break something on the trailer or mount if a log snags.

Any advice folks have on battery isolators would be appreciated.  The plan is to mount an extra battery (or even two) in the elevated winch mount (shown above).

Yes, I know hydraulic would be preferable, but we're talking $3k+ with truck mods (and I plan to unload this truck soon) vs. less than $1k for electric (and an ability to swap trucks randomly).


----------



## Jags (Feb 11, 2017)

Stick with electric unless you are willing to build a self contained hydro unit on the trailer itself.  Go big.  You never know when you are gonna be loading something you never even thought of (dead skidder, ancient obelisk, etc.).  I would think a 12500# unit would cover darn near anything.
I once heard somebody say. - if its worth doing, its worth overdoing.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 11, 2017)

Lol... making me eat my own words, there?   I'll have to look at speed and current draw of those big units, as speed and battery life are going to be important factors.  Trailer payload is inly 5500#, so I don't need to worry about hauling 10k# skidsteers, but I will buy big if it means better speed or reduced battery draw.


----------



## Jags (Feb 11, 2017)

I haven't done the math, but my suspicions say that a 10,000# unit pulling at 25% capacity probably isn't going to use much (if any) more juice than a 3500# trying to pull the same 2500# load.  Line speeds can be all over the place - buyer beware.


----------



## brenndatomu (Feb 11, 2017)

Harbor freight has a 12k # winch that is highly rated among the 4x4 mud truck guys...can be had for $300 on sale (maybe less) http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE...256.html/RK=0/RS=sfyjeiahIWyeozsnwS0hfTdY.T0-


----------



## Ashful (Feb 11, 2017)

Cool.  Thanks for the link!  I was looking at Warn and Superwinch, but could add this to the list, too.  I haven't looked at Harbor Freight in years, since they mostly sell junk, but I guess they might have a few good items.  I don't need to pay for a highly-advertised name or winch size bragging rights, but will pay more for a unit that won't let me down when I need to use it.


----------



## byQ (Feb 11, 2017)

I want to rig a winch up to a bit smaller trailer (8'x16' dually). I'm just looking to drag big rounds, half logs, and maybe an occasional full log. So I'm going to go with a mid size winch (5000-8000#). I'm going to use synthetic line instead of cable because it is safer, stronger and easier to work with. Easier to roll up and to move around. This makes sense because I'll probably be winching for several hours.

And I'm going to attach one of those truck cranes to the front of the trailer. Also I would like to have some extension twine, say 100', to retrieve wood that is far away. Lastly I'm going to use some sort of wagon or wheels that I can winch in in order to carry rounds or logs easier.


----------



## Ashful (Feb 12, 2017)

Research that synth line before making the purchase, Q.  It may not be as abrasion resistant as this application requires.


----------



## mustash29 (Feb 12, 2017)

I played around doing some mild 4x4 / off road things for a few years and have a little experience with winches.....

I got a good used Warn M-8000 off CL for about 400.  I mounted it to a home made portable cradle (piece of C channel, 2" tube stock & 3 huge bolts) that plugs into the front receiver hitch on my S-10 ZR2.  I never had to work it hard when wheeling but it never let me down either.

I got 2 different log loads delivered to the house.  A tri-axe load of 16-20 footers and a tractor trailer load of similar sized logs.  The Warn and S-10 did a nice job of dragging the logs off the top of the pile for easier bucking.  When getting low in the piles, instead of cutting in the dirt, I would chain a log up to the cable and run it through a pully block that was hanging about 10 feet up in a 12" pine tree.  Poor man's crane hoist system.  Bucking at waist height was nice.

A series wound winch motor like this can draw upward of 400 + amps when working hard.  The stock battery and 100 amp alternator were becoming taxed when at idle.  Mostly because the alternator only puts out about 40 amps at idle.  I upgraded to an AD-244 alternator.  It bolted right up and plugged right it to the 4.3 L motor.  The case is only barely bigger than the stock one, but the AD-244 puts out 100 amps at idle, does a max of 145 and cools itself better.  The AD-244 is what comes stock on a full size GM truck with the HD electrical system.  My Duramax has one as stock equipment.  The only way to go bigger from the factory is to order dual alternators, but you get dual crappy 100's, which could be swapped out to 145's, etc.

We have an '06 Jeep Unlimited that is lifted 4.5" and running on 33's.  I put a Smittybilt XRC-8 on it.  I got that thing stupid cheap from www.winchdepot.com for 269 shipped.  It's a good winch and has faster line speed than the Warn.   We used the Jeep to drag a few logs out of the woods here and there and usually I have to strap the rear end to another tree or the winch will just drag the Jeep around like a rag doll.

I have a 16 foot 14 K GVWR trailer that I originally bought to haul the Jeep to wheeling events with.  I've hauled more wood, mulch & stone on it though, LOL.  I have not gotten around to mounting a winch on my trailer yet, so I will be interested in seeing how your project turns out.

I would think something in the 8-10K range would be a minimum starting point.  You can always rig up a snatch block for 2x the power but that will cost you by being 2x slower line speed.

I would not want to use synthetic line for wood work.  Too much potential for abrasion damage and that stuff is costly, but wire rope gets heavy and needs constant attention so you don't "birds nest" it on the winch drum.


----------



## greg13 (Feb 12, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Lol... making me eat my own words, there?   I'll have to look at speed and current draw of those big units, as speed and battery life are going to be important factors.  Trailer payload is inly 5500#, so I don't need to worry about hauling 10k# skidsteers, but I will buy big if it means better speed or reduced battery draw.



Don't forget to factor in the friction from dragging it, It will add to the weight.
Come BIG or stay home!


----------



## Ashful (Dec 26, 2017)

Follow-up post, I'm happy to say the winch and my custom welded stand both worked flawlessly.  In about 5 hours today, I cut and skidded five cords of wood, and hauled three cords of it home (with an extra trip to deliver my tractor back home), and unloaded it all into my wood processing area at home.  This is a huge success, as I was working completely alone, I am happy with the progress.

My only issue was actually created by the winch manufacturer, not my customization.  They put way too much line on the spool, such that it binds up unless wound completely evenly on the drum.  This is simply not practical, I will be cutting at least 20 feet off the factory line, it is unnecessarily long.

Some photos.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 26, 2017)

Oh, also, battery supply was a non-issue.  Skidded eight logs per load without noticing any drop in performance.  Did not bother running truck for recharge, other than the trip home to drop off a load.


----------



## Tar12 (Dec 26, 2017)

I take it the new tongs performed as expected?


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Follow-up post, I'm happy to say the winch and my custom welded stand both worked flawlessly.  In about 5 hours today, I cut and skidded five cords of wood, and hauled three cords of it home (with an extra trip to deliver my tractor back home), and unloaded it all into my wood processing area at home.  This is a huge success, as I was working completely alone, I am happy with the progress.
> 
> My only issue was actually created by the winch manufacturer, not my customization.  They put way too much line on the spool, such that it binds up unless wound completely evenly on the drum.  This is simply not practical, I will be cutting at least 20 feet off the factory line, it is unnecessarily long.
> 
> ...


Cool setup. Thanks for the follow up.

Would you mind a few close-ups of the winch and the mounting that you decided on, please.

I must have missed the discussion on the tongs. That looks good, too.

Those are smaller logs than you're used to dealing with, no?


----------



## ben94122 (Dec 26, 2017)

Ashful said:


> the winch


Which winch did you end up with?

Also, I've dragged lots of wood (and vehicles) with the synthetic winch cable (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene--Dyneema, Spectra, or Amsteel), also with steel winch cables.  The synthetic lines work great, are easier on the hands than steel and wear very well, in my experience. They're also getting to be cheap. The thing I like best about them is that they have very little stretch, so they don't store as much energy if they (or another component of the pulling system) breaks.  Knots are very difficult to untie, so I try to only tie timber hitches.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 26, 2017)

Tar12 said:


> I take it the new tongs performed as expected?



Yes.  Those tongs are the best investment I’ve made in my wood harvesting operation in several years.  They really reduce the fatigue, after years of trying to get chokers under and around logs for skidding. I highly recommend them.

I really appreciated not having to separate these logs, just hook the tongs and go!












Note the nice mess of highly-sprung saplings in the wake of this fallen oak.


----------



## Tar12 (Dec 26, 2017)

What size did you get? I have log chain and choker cable but it gets old as you know...going to have to try a set of these tongs out....


----------



## Ashful (Dec 26, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> Cool setup. Thanks for the follow up.
> 
> Would you mind a few close-ups of the winch and the mounting that you decided on, please.
> 
> ...



Yes, definitely smaller than what I get from the place where I do most of my cutting.  No complaints, there though!

Winch is the recently discontinued Superwinch S7500 trailer winch.  I’ll probably order the gears to down-convert it to an S5500, but the deal I got on the S7500 was just too good to pass up.


----------



## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Dec 27, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Yes, definitely smaller than what I get from the place where I do most of my cutting.  No complaints, there though!
> 
> Winch is the recently discontinued Superwinch S7500 trailer winch.  I’ll probably order the hearing to down-conver it to an S5500, but the deal I got on the S7500 was just too good to pass up.
> 
> View attachment 218823


I'm must not speak winch-ese, because I have no idea what a hearing to down-conver means, but, that's a cool setup. 

Probably the most efficient way to collect wood fuel that I can imagine.  Only thing else would be a grapple, but that would be impractical. 

And, the batteries are charged by the alternator on the truck. That's really something.


----------



## Jags (Dec 27, 2017)

That is a pretty sweet setup.  Clean mount for the winch and battery setup as well.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 27, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> I'm must not speak winch-ese, because I have no idea what a hearing to down-conver means, but, that's a cool setup.
> 
> Probably the most efficient way to collect wood fuel that I can imagine.  Only thing else would be a grapple, but that would be impractical.
> 
> And, the batteries are charged by the alternator on the truck. That's really something.



Hah... I was on my second Manhattan when I typed that, and let the spell checker get the better of me.  I want to order gearing to down-convert it from 7500# to 5500#, with increased speed.  I paid $240 for that winch, which is normally $700-something, because they had just discontinued that product series, and they had already sold out on the less expensive 5500# model.  

The charging system took a bit to wire up.  I have a 10-amp charger (12V to 14.4V DC-DC converter with 10-amp limit and low vehicle battery drop-out) that’s powered off the truck, as well as a solar battery tender that I plug in when it’s parked.  I’d advise anyone agains simply connecting these batteries directly to the truck, as it won’t charge all that well, and many bad things can happen.

Based on this one test, yes... it appears to be every bit as efficient as I had hoped it would be.  The added weight of winch, stand, and batteries is driving up the tongue weight on the truck, though.  If I could do it all over again, I’d go with a 120V winch, and just put my generator in the bed of the truck.  No expensive deep-cycle batteries to replace every 5-7 years, lower tongue weight, no overheating 12V winches during long pulling sessions.

I haven’t had any issue with this winch overheating yet, but I’ve read enough to know it happens to folks.


----------



## Tar12 (Dec 27, 2017)

Another question(s) on those tongs....how well do they stay attached when stopping and starting or even backing a little when skidding? How easy do they release?


----------



## Ashful (Dec 27, 2017)

The answer to all of those questions depends a lot on the log, but I made some observations and learned a few nice tricks, just in my first few hours of pulling with them.  Here's a few of those, in no particular order:

- Setting the tongs is the main trick, when working alone.  If I had my buddy on the tractor, and me setting the tongs, I'd just hold them on the log whil he pulls away with the tractor.  It would be a breeze.
- If working alone, the easiest way to set the tongs is to lay them flat on the ground, slide one prong under the log until it stops (pinched between log and ground), then lift the other prong which will lever up on the one under the log (setting it), and then drop the top prong high on the log.  I might not be describing this well, but you'll figure it out, and it's quite easy.
- The prongs set real easy in punky wood, but they can also tear out more easily in punky wood.  Conversely, setting them is a trick on hard oak without bark, but once set they hold very well.
- Removing the tongs is very easy.  I usually just grab one leg, and lever up.  If they're set especially deep, then one quick kick with the heel of your boot will always release them.  No issue.
- If you reverse the tractor, you'll usually release the tongs.  This is not a problem, and in fact is quite handy.  If you don't want them to release, just keep upward pressure on them.

In hauling maybe 20 - 30 logs, I only had them pop off once or twice, and that was early in the day while I was still getting a feel for using them.  Getting them set was harder on the first ten logs, but once you get the hang of it, it's really not much of an issue.

Now a question for you folks:  I need some sort of spike or hook that I can put on the far end of a log, when I'm getting it all the way up to the front wall of the trailer.  On smaller logs, I find I can reposition the tongs from the front end of the log to the back end, once it gets too close to the front wall of the trailer for the winch to pull any father.  This does no work on larger logs, where the angles don't work for the tongs to reach over the back of the log.  I made due with putting the winch to the toggle on my cant hook, and hooking that into the trailing end of those logs, but that's not idea.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 27, 2017)

This "log dog" looks ideal, unfortunately this one sold long ago on ebay.






I might just have to make one, myself.


----------



## Jags (Dec 27, 2017)

I just made one a couple months ago similar to that log dog.  No handle though, just a clevis to throw a chain on.  I made it to stand up very large rounds (using a garden tractor for the pull).  Works well for that and I think something similar would work for what you want to do.

Edit for clarity: Standing up the rounds on edge if they fall flat to the ground.  This is for noodling purposes. I also find it handy to roll logs if I need to reposition for the saw.


----------



## Tar12 (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks for the information....I understood your directions....I always have someone with me. I am looking for anything that speeds up the process.


----------



## Tar12 (Dec 27, 2017)

Ashful said:


> This "log dog" looks ideal, unfortunately this one sold long ago on ebay.
> 
> View attachment 218886
> 
> ...


Here is another one....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-Sno...499061?hash=item1a2b1d6f75:g:o2sAAOSw-3FZB-gA


----------



## black smoke signals (Dec 27, 2017)

My hand winch (slow) will pull from receiver or a dead man and still be hooked up to truck.


----------



## greg13 (Dec 27, 2017)

Now add a snatch block into your set up to help you steer the logs off to the sides of the trailer without having to wrestle them.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 28, 2017)

greg13 said:


> Now add a snatch block into your set up to help you steer the logs off to the sides of the trailer without having to wrestle them.



We think alike, I picked one up last night.  Of course, I forgot to bring it with me today, but I made due with one of my choker chains, like this:






I even double-stacked a few:






The big breakthrough was unloading with the tongs on the loader, which enabled me to quickly stack a few cords of logs.  
















If it’s not too cold tomorrow, I’ll go out for another trailer load.   I’ll be cutting at a friends place, which always beats working alone.


----------



## Ashful (Dec 30, 2017)

Pulled another two cords out of the woods last night, this time at my usual place.  Consisted of 37.5 feet of 24”ish standing dead white oak, 15 feet of 12”ish maple, and 15 feet of 12”ish ash.  I’m cutting everything in 15’ or 7.5’ lengths now, as that’s the common denominator of my stove split length (18”) and my trailer bed length.  Actually, had to leave some more behind in the staging area, as my trailer was maxed out.  

Depending on access to the location and distance to my house, I’m finding I can fell, Buck, skid, load, haul, and unload about two cords per 3 hours with this new system.  Between this and my newly hot-rodded splitter, I see my wood use ticking back up to my previous levels.


----------



## Poindexter (Jan 1, 2018)

So far I like @maple1 's approach, it is pretty much mine.  Within total system limits, I move the smallest, lightest piece of wood possible over and over again rather than move a whole log with gear I don't own.


----------



## Poindexter (Jan 1, 2018)

My fundamental question is why?  No offense, I am sure you have a logical reason, I just haven't deduced it.

When I buy stumpage in the public forest, if I get too far ahead on bucking or too far behind on hauling it is a sure bet someone will come along and load their truck with the rounds I bucked.  

What is the payoff for bringing these monsters home in one piece?


----------



## maple1 (Jan 1, 2018)

I'm guessing it's to get as much cubic footage home as quick as possible. Then it will be close and secure to work at and process as time permits.


----------



## Poindexter (Jan 1, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I’m finding I can fell, Buck, skid, load, haul, and unload about two cords per 3 hours with this new system.



OK, this is a significant achievement.  You are getting, average, one cord of logs into the processing area on your own property in about 90 minutes.  From there you can finish bucking, then split then stack at you leisure when you have whatever for free time.

This does save dragging your splitter to the forest and back.


----------



## Ashful (Jan 1, 2018)

Poindexter said:


> My fundamental question is why?  No offense, I am sure you have a logical reason, I just haven't deduced it.


There are three main reasons:

1.  Time is precious.  I used to spend three to five very long (eg. 12 hour) days to bring home 6 - 10 cords each year, by the time I felled, bucked into logs, skidded to a staging area, re-bucked into rounds, hand-rolled those rounds into my trailer, drove home, and hand-rolled those rounds back off the trailer.  Now, I'm bringing home and unloading the same amount of wood in one 12-hour day (or in this case, three very short outings of just a couple hours each).  Yes, I still need to split it, but that's more easily-scheduled time on my own at home.  Scheduling outings with my cutting buddy, at his place with his tractor for skidding, is much more challenging.

2.  My cutting buddy is getting older, and rolling rounds in and out of the trailer is very hard on both of us.  When I cut at his place, I'm bringing home a lot of oak, with diameter 24" - 40".  When I was cutting for the Jotuls, I had those green weights figured at 350 - 1000 lb. per round, and it was really just killing me on the day or two I'd haul all that wood home each spring, not to mention how I'd worry about him trying to help me with them.  The BK rounds are lighter, since they're a little shorter, but they're still too heavy!

3.  Now I can go cutting on my own!  One of my obstacles was always having someone handy to help me roll heavy (esp. the ones > 500 lb.) rounds into the trailer.  This is the first time in a long time I've gone out on my own, and hauled home wood.  That's where the first five cords came from, on Tuesday and Thursday.


----------



## Poindexter (Jan 1, 2018)

So partly this local market stuff.

I can buy stumpage in public forests for $10/ cord, but if I leave rounds out there long enough they grow legs.  I can have logs delivered for ~$150/ cord, and I can have green rounds delivered, and I can get green splits delivered for about $200/ cord.

I am not sure what you are paying for heating oil, but I imagine if you could get an honest cord of green oak rounds delivered for say $150 or $175 you would probably jump at the chance?

In that instance this all makes sense.  Once you have the pieces home where your dogs can keep an eye on them, the pieces won't grow legs.  What you have done is maximize the amount of wood you can get home in one day.  Now I get it, and nice job I think too.

If the cutting area could be secured I would be sorely, sorely tempted to drag my splitter out there, process on site and toss green splits into the bucket on the loader and use the loader to dump them into the trailer...

Anyway, it makes sense now.  Nice job.  If I could bring a cord of spruce home with 90 minutes of work plus driving the truck around some I probably would do that too.


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 6, 2018)

When the situation allows I will drag limb logs to the field and stage them in a row one day and buck them into rounds and the next day we will roll in with the splitter and dump trailer...our record for splitting one day was 6 cord of ash.this was straight line wind storm trees....straight perfect logs.I was running the 6-way head on the splitter...we had to keep switching the guy out on the receiving end of the splitter (we needed 2 guys) .it was a brutal pace!...a record I will not try to break!


----------



## Ashful (Jan 6, 2018)

Tar12 said:


> When the situation allows I will drag limb logs to the field and stage them in a row one day and buck them into rounds and the next day we will roll in with the splitter and dump trailer...our record for splitting one day was 6 cord of ash.this was straight line wind storm trees....straight perfect logs.I was running the 6-way head on the splitter...we had to keep switching the guy out on the receiving end of the splitter (we needed 2 guys) .it was a brutal pace!...a record I will not try to break!


That is so cool.  I have debated picking up or making a multi-way head for my splitter, but have never pulled the trigger.  On mine, the wedge is on the cylinder, whereas most I see with multi-wedges have a fixed wedge and moving push plate.


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 6, 2018)

I would love to be able to have access to the logs you get! I would never take the 6-way off! It is a easy enough swap..one bolt and a nut and it is switched out...I run the 2-way/4-way on smaller stuff as the retracting hydraulic wedge allow you to adjust on the fly from 2-way to 4-way...that is the horizontal wedge wings drop below the beam height...it is very productive...


----------



## Ashful (Jan 6, 2018)

I lucked out this year, and got a lot of stuff in that sweet 12" - 24" range.  That's where I see the multi-wedge coming into play.  Unfortunately, most years I'm getting all large stuff, and I don't see myself using the multiwedge on those... at least with my small splitter.

You're right though, if there were ever a time to do it, this would be it!  Unfortunately, I just got recruited to build a kitchen island for my in-laws place, so that will keep me busy this week, while it's too cold to go out and split.  On the heels of that I have another project lined up, but maybe I could slip the wedge build in first.

Time to go start hunting photos of one that would work on my machine.

_edit:  oh geez...I just found you can buy them for $25.  No sense in making one from scratch, at that price!_


----------



## Tar12 (Jan 6, 2018)

Ashful said:


> I lucked out this year, and got a lot of stuff in that sweet 12" - 24" range.  That's where I see the multi-wedge coming into play.  Unfortunately, most years I'm getting all large stuff, and I don't see myself using the multiwedge on those... at least with my small splitter.
> 
> You're right though, if there were ever a time to do it, this would be it!  Unfortunately, I just got recruited to build a kitchen island for my in-laws place, so that will keep me busy this week, while it's too cold to go out and split.  On the heels of that I have another project lined up, but maybe I could slip the wedge build in first.
> 
> ...





Ashful said:


> I lucked out this year, and got a lot of stuff in that sweet 12" - 24" range.  That's where I see the multi-wedge coming into play.  Unfortunately, most years I'm getting all large stuff, and I don't see myself using the multiwedge on those... at least with my small splitter.
> 
> You're right though, if there were ever a time to do it, this would be it!  Unfortunately, I just got recruited to build a kitchen island for my in-laws place, so that will keep me busy this week, while it's too cold to go out and split.  On the heels of that I have another project lined up, but maybe I could slip the wedge build in first.
> 
> ...


You need this with as much wood as you process....I was shocked you didn't have it already!


----------

