# Oil Burner Issues



## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

Our furnace has had issues for over a year now, and now that we are over 200$ in it still is not working right.

I can get any info that is needed. It runs off of diesel. It fires up, runs for a good 15 mins, then it will not start again, all the while the control box is calling for heat it just does not fire up. Replaced the CAD sensor, replaced the intermittent igniter several times because the first couple were defective, we replaced some other massive control board (the one with error lights etc), replaced the ignition base plate etc, replaced oil filter, checked fuel in tanks, replaced nozzle, then we replaced the copper tube from the tank to the boiler because the original was under cement and we had theory there was condensation.

There is no thermostat, it is jumped so once power is on it is in constant call for heat. We also checked the control box to make sure it was not in a lock out mode. I checked the manual schematics and could not find anything as far as sensors for air / draft, temps, etc, and am not sure how to test any of those...

It is the AF/AFG Beckett Model. We got one of the more basic honeywell igniter boxes.. So I went as far as watching instruction videos on burners and how they work and I still cannot figure out what is wrong. It seems to be some sensor or control board issue as far as I can tell. There is absolutely nothing that happens when it is trying to turn back on after the 15 min run, it just sits there dead, but while it does the reset is down and it is in call for heat...


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## BoilerMan (Nov 2, 2014)

Welcome to hearth.

Does it light well on the first call for heat?

If you remove power and reconnect does it start as normal?

TS


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

Yes on both. It fires right up initially and runs fine then will not come back on. If powered off and on it will fire up, run the one cycle and then not fire again. I am leaning towards the intermittent igniter board. I had my doubts that it was that because we have replaced it three times now, it seems every darn one is defective...


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

This is the control system we got.. http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-R81...r=8-4&keywords=honeywell ignitor intermittent






This is the one I am thinking about getting.. http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-R81...keywords=honeywell ignitor oil burner control


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## ewdudley (Nov 2, 2014)

With the T-T jumpered I'm assuming the burner cycles off on high limit.  Does the circulator continue to run after the burner cycles off? Can your force the burner to re-light temporarily by jumpering across the high limit terminals of the aquastat?


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## DBoon (Nov 2, 2014)

For oil burners, I think you would get more responses as https://heatinghelp.com/


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

I have to scratch a little of what I said. We re tested it, it seems like there is a reset getting tripped or something. Even after poweroff/poweron it will not fire back up unless we wait several hours..


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

ewdudley said:


> With the T-T jumpered I'm assuming the burner cycles off on high limit.  Does the circulator continue to run after the burner cycles off? Can your force the burner to re-light temporarily by jumpering across the high limit terminals of the aquastat?



You lost me there a little bit. I know a little about the boiler but that sounds like gibberish. What are the high limit terminals? O I was looking up that a min ago, the aquastat, they said to test it with a volt meter....


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

DBoon said:


> For oil burners, I think you would get more responses as https://heatinghelp.com/



Thanks I am checking that out now..


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 2, 2014)

ad circ pump. It gets up to temp but can't get the heat out, when the chimney sucks the heat down it restarts.


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## Nedly (Nov 2, 2014)

I think I might be onto something now. I found a forum suggesting to test the L1/L2 and B1/B2 terminals on the aqua-stat to test and see if either the low water cut off or aqua-stat were having issues and I got a zero reading on the L1/L2 pointing to the low water cut off, but I got the full reading of 120vac on the B1/B2 terminals...


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## R Mannino (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm guessing a bad motor on the burner.  With power at B1 on the aquastat the burner should be running.


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## Nedly (Nov 3, 2014)

How could I test that? Is it by jumping the high terminals on the aquastat? I am willing to do any troubleshooting i am just not sure what to do.. When I tested the unit the power was on but the machine was not running. I tested B1/B2 and got 120vac, but then nothing at L1/L2. I read that could mean the low water cut off is messing up. So I looked at that and it seems to be just a transformer, some resistor and a sensor...

Would the burner run for initial runs if the blower motor was bad? Because it will start and run for a while after it has sat. It seems to finish a main cycle versus get interrupted (seems)...


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## R Mannino (Nov 4, 2014)

How about some photos of what you have going on, then it won't be such a stab in the dark.  Like of the controls and such with the covers off.


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## BoilerMan (Nov 4, 2014)

Yes pics mean 1000 words.  Some of us here do this for a living.

TS


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## R Mannino (Nov 4, 2014)

No photo's here either  http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/152009/burner-issues-wont-re-fire#latest

What model # aquastat and LWCO and how is it wired?


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## Nedly (Nov 5, 2014)

Sorry about the delays. I do have more model numbers and pics I am congregating now and will post. Current update is we drained the low water cut off and shut off its water supply and then tried to start it, it did not work indicating the low water cut off should be fine. We never did get a reading on the L1/L2 terminals. We also noticed that if we raise the temp setting in the aquastat that it does heat up to that temp and then shut off, then no refire. I have no idea if it does have something to do with the fact that it is forced hot water setup or not. I know someone mentioned there being two parts.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 5, 2014)

Nedly said:


> Sorry about the delays. I do have more model numbers and pics I am congregating now and will post. Current update is we drained the low water cut off and shut off its water supply and then tried to start it, it did not work indicating the low water cut off should be fine. We never did get a reading on the L1/L2 terminals. We also noticed that if we raise the temp setting in the aquastat that it does heat up to that temp and then shut off, then no refire. I have no idea if it does have something to do with the fact that it is forced hot water setup or not. I know someone mentioned there being two parts.



CIRCULATOR PUMP is not running.


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## Nedly (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok, so I am starting to understand this all a little bit better. One question, are the fazes of high limit and low limit where the furnace heats up to temp (high limit first faze), then the low limit is the water heating process (low limit second faze)???

That is exactly what it is doing!! It is running through the high limit cycle but then not moving on to the low limit cycle. What does this mean? This is what someone else mentioned but I am still trying to make sense of it..

" jumping the thermostat isn't how to make hot water, its the low limit in the controls that decides when it turns on from the aquastat in the domestic coil. If you are not using it for heating the boiler could be hitting its high limit and not turning back on at the low limit, with no low limit set int the controls. "

I have more news too. I guess the setup is that the forced hot water was never shut off, rather the "house" based thermostat has been turned all the way down so it does not call for heat. So should I turn that up and shut off the feeds in the line?


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 5, 2014)

High limit shuts boiler down, if there is a call for heat the differential say15* kicks in. If there is no call for heat the boiler will sit idle till it drops to the low limit setting, then fire back up. Have no idea what "forced hot water was never shut off" means


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## Nedly (Nov 5, 2014)

I get what you mean. I am really new to a lot of this and am just now reading about the different coils and the setup. At this point I am just trying to figure out what is going on so I can get hot water. Someone else is suggesting the setup is messed up because of "two sets of coils"? something about an internal coil and a domestic coil. Basically I am trying to run this unit to heat up the tap water setup and not the forced hot water setup and I am not sure what is going on at the moment.

So it is running right? but....I need to do something more for hot water? This here is where I am stuck.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 6, 2014)

domestic hot water set up have a tank or just a coil in the boiler.


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## mustash29 (Nov 7, 2014)

If you have a tankless DHW coil in the boiler, you should have a tripple aquastat.  That will operate off the low limit setting to keep the boiler warm 24/7 in order to provide adequate heat for DHW should you turn on a faucet somewhere.  When the low limit is in control, the circulator (and zone valve flows) are disabled.  This provides simple priority control for making DHW.

When a zone calls for heat, the boiler will heat up to the hi limit setting and hang out up there while it satisifys the space heating demand.  When the zones are satisified, temp will drift down (heat loss up the flue pipe) untill the low limit takes over to maintain minimum temp.

This is a long read but gives a lot of details.  The thing to stress is that when playing with the settings, the hi & low must be about 20 deg apart, so they don't interfere with each other.  If they are less than 20 apart, funky stuff can happen.

http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Aquastats.htm


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## maple1 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hard to tell from all the back & forth, but it sort of sounds like there might not be anything wrong with the burner and it's working as it should per aquastat settings. Still light on details though, such as exactly what is there for stats, and what they're set at, boiler temps when things start & stop, and exactly what starts & stops then (burner, pumps...)...


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## mustash29 (Nov 7, 2014)

For example, I have mine set up like this:

Hi limit set to 170, it has a built in negative 10 differential, so it fires from 160 to 170 during calls for heat.

Low limit set to 140, it has a built in neg 10 diff, so it maintains 130 - 140 when there are no calls for heat.

The 3rd setting is the variable differential, which only affects the low limit.  When it is set to the minimum 10 and 140 like above, it maintains 130 - 140.  If I dial the diff up to a max of 25, it will still fire at 130 but heat up to 155.


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## jaoneill (Nov 8, 2014)

We had somewhat similar isues with our beckett last winter. Random shutdowns, no restart, etc. After a month of fiddling and the third (new) CAD cell we finally got one that wasn't inherently defective and haven't had a bit of trouble since. There was a day when you could assume that a new part would work as it should; those days are in the past.


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## BoilerMan (Nov 9, 2014)

As a heating tradsman, I can't agree with that statement.  Now if I bought all of my supplies from Lowes/HD that'd be a different story.  A good meter and the know-how to use it is worth more than most parts.  

TS


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## jaoneill (Nov 9, 2014)

BoilerMan said:


> As a heating tradsman, I can't agree with that statement.  Now if I bought all of my supplies from Lowes/HD that'd be a different story.  A good meter and the know-how to use it is worth more than most parts.
> 
> TS


I don't disagree with you, but we maintain our own equipment for a number of properties and generally buy in bulk from a local supplier. There were a number of seemingly defective units, that failed prematurely in the last batch of Cad cells we had. Two of them performed similarly to the the issues described by the first poster.


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## Nedly (Nov 17, 2014)

Sorry I have been gone, I am a full time college student and got swept up in mid-terms. 

I replaced the aquastat and had the same issue, then replaced the low water cut off with no results. So I did further testing like suggested with the high limit / low limit settings on the aquastat and found (i think) that the high limit is not what is shutting off the system but something else, it seems to be getting to higher temps than what the diles are set to like it is overheating 200+ degrees. So I do not know what is shutting it off or why it is overheating...


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## Nedly (Nov 17, 2014)

I am recapping on the thread and will be replying with information needed. I do have pictures but they do not show how it is wired....


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## Nedly (Nov 17, 2014)




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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 17, 2014)

Low and high settings are too high. What is energizing your circulator pump?


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## ewdudley (Nov 17, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Low and high settings are too high. What is energizing your circulator pump?


Indeed!  Don't even want to know how it got that way ...


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## maple1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Holy crap.

And money up the chimney.

Batman.

Turn those down, now.

EDIT: I will go further & suggest starting with turning down to lo = 160, hi = 190 (maybe even 180) for heating season. Then fiddle after seeing how things go then. Non-heating season maybe 140/160 depending on DHW output.


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## Nedly (Nov 18, 2014)

They have not been that high this whole time. I had adjusted them to try and prove it was not the high limit shutting off the system. 

I am not positive as to what is powering the circulator pump, I will check..


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## ewdudley (Nov 18, 2014)

Nedly said:


> They have not been that high this whole time. I had adjusted them to try and prove it was not the high limit shutting off the system.
> 
> I am not positive as to what is powering the circulator pump, I will check..


Good answer!  I apologize for assuming there was some undirected flailing about going on.


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## Nedly (Nov 18, 2014)

What do you mean by "circulator pump"?? I searched the manual and could only find reference to a "clean cut pump", seems to be some type of fuel pump....


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## Nedly (Nov 18, 2014)

ewdudley said:


> Good answer!  I apologize for assuming there was some undirected flailing about going on.



Thanks. I will admit I am a bit of a newb on furnaces, but I am a CIS major / mechanic so I am not too far in the dark.. :  D


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 18, 2014)

That is not a furnace, its a boiler. There needs to be a pump in the water lines to pump the water out of the boiler to the house and back to the boiler. If you are not removing the heat it will stay in the boiler doing nothing.


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## ewdudley (Nov 18, 2014)

Nedly said:


> What do you mean by "circulator pump"??



Somewhere in the piping in the mechanical room we would expect to find one or more circulator pumps, which all look the same except some are red, some are green, and some are black:

https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&hl=en&as_q=circulator pump&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgsz=&imgar=&imgc=&imgcolor=&imgtype=&cr=&as_sitesearch=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

Often circulation is enabled by a signal from the two terminals in the aquastat labeled "CIRC" C1 & C2 that we can see in the last two photos above. But there's nothing connected to C1 & C2.  Alternatively signal ZC is used to enable circulation in some other control box, but there is nothing connected to ZC either, so we're curious what enables circulation and also what powers circulation.


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## Nedly (Nov 18, 2014)

Ok I investigated to find 4 individual circulator pumps... Going to adjust settings and try it tonight.


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## R Mannino (Nov 18, 2014)

Do we know what is controlling the circulators?  Does the house have hot water?


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## maple1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Might be good to step back a couple steps & take more system pics too. I thought I wasn't seeing wires hooked to those terminals either, but on second look couldn't tell for sure - looked like there might be one coming in & bending under to catch one. Now looking again, it doesn't look like it. If you take more pics, start at the circs and work back to the boiler. Sounds like zoning by circ pumps & not zone valves too? Could be as simple as a wire not hooked to one of those terminals - but you should then have a cold house & DHW too, which we haven't heard about yet


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 19, 2014)

You may have a zone control, Altogether different control. Can you hear or feel the pumps running? Amps? At this point you should call a pro in. Should not cost much as I expect it is a simple control issue.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

Tried it again with the limits lowered. I can hear the circulators powering on, they seem to be working normally. Limits do not turn it off, basically it would not matter how low I set the limits it burns to 200+ and shuts down... Well I wont let it get to 200+ anymore I power it down, but it would heat that high if I let it. 

Is there a chance the blower motor is bad? Maybe not giving enough oxygen?


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't think there's anything wrong with the burner if it is overheating the boiler.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> I can hear the circulators powering on



Are they moving water? If the boiler is hot, ball valves are open, pumps pumping, you have heat.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

Suppose I turned down the limits to their lowest possible setting and then the boiler still heated up to 200+ eventually shutting down... What would you suggest the issue is?

That is essentially what I am facing..


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah no it only runs the first cycle until it over heats shutting off, then wont run until it is cooled. It needs more than one cycle to heat water for the system...


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

No matter what the limits are set to, it runs to a high temp, shuts down, does not start again.


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## R Mannino (Nov 21, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Are they moving water? If the boiler is hot, ball valves are open, pumps pumping, you have heat.



Unless it has no water in it..............................................


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

How would you tell for sure that there is water running through them?


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 21, 2014)

R Mannino said:


> Unless it has no water in it..............................................



pumps can't pump if there is no water in it.


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Is the pump moving hot water? Are the zones getting heat? Sounds like you have more than one issue - but there have been some questions asked more than once that haven't been answered yet.


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> How would you tell for sure that there is water running through them?



Are the return pipes getting hot. Pump impeller could be gone, pump may be air bound. At this point you need a pro.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Is the pump moving hot water? Are the zones getting heat? Sounds like you have more than one issue - but there have been some questions asked more than once that haven't been answered yet.



I do not think the zones are getting heat, if you mean throughout the house. I am going to try and track down this pump system and get you better answers.


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> How would you tell for sure that there is water running through them?



Feel if they get hot?


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## R Mannino (Nov 21, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> Are the return pipes getting hot. Pump impeller could be gone, pump may be air bound. At this point you need a pro.



I concur with those suggestions, probably a quick fix once you figure out what's going on.


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

There are two issues that I can see from what you are posting. Your circulator isn't pumping water, and you have no control over your burner. But we don't know for sure about the circ - you say you hear it running. But there are no wires hooked to the C & Z terminals in the stat - and you still haven't provided any more info about how your circ is powered. And you can't tell if hot water is running through your pipes. Then, the stat settings should stop the burner from running when the boiler gets to setpoint. Not going back to reread now - but didn't you say you changed stats? Are you sure the sensor & sensor lead are still good inside the well? If that got broken, you won't control squat.

This has been an interesting flurry - but I need to go to bed now. Maybe it will be fixed when I come back tomorrow.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

My circulators have bleeder valves and I can confirm there is water. I guess what is shutting it off is some internal thermostat in the aquastat. But for some reason if I turn down the high limit it will still heat way up and shut down.

Another thing is that it heats up faster than hell. I am leaning near the blower motor. Going to remove and inspect it. It seems like it is overheating super fast...


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> There are two issues that I can see from what you are posting. Your circulator isn't pumping water, and you have no control over your burner. But we don't know for sure about the circ - you say you hear it running. But there are no wires hooked to the C & Z terminals in the stat - and you still haven't provided any more info about how your circ is powered. And you can't tell if hot water is running through your pipes. Then, the stat settings should stop the burner from running when the boiler gets to setpoint. Not going back to reread now - but didn't you say you changed stats? Are you sure the sensor & sensor lead are still good inside the well? If that got broken, you won't control squat.
> 
> This has been an interesting flurry - but I need to go to bed now. Maybe it will be fixed when I come back tomorrow.



I am trying to keep up hold in there with me!
Water does seem to be heating the pipes and circulating but does not reach the tap system, it is as if it does not run long enough to fill the system. 

The led sensor is fine as I replaced it.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

I did change the stats, went to diff 10 because it says it in the manual, and I lowered the limits (I only raised them that one time). Now I have experimented by lowering them completely to find it running the same way. It is a freight train when it runs, no matter the high limit low limit diff settings. But the pumps seem to be working and are wired into the big blue control box on the side.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

I have no hanging / loose wires etc so I am not sure what would usually be wired to the C & Z terminals...


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## ewdudley (Nov 21, 2014)

Can you verify that there is water in the boiler?  I would suggest that you manually crack the pressure relief at the top of the boiler, but they sometimes don't close completely when you mess with them.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

ewdudley said:


> Can you verify that there is water in the boiler?  I would suggest that you manually crack the pressure relief at the top of the boiler, but they sometimes don't close completely when you mess with them.



I just did that, I have two, one right out of the boiler and another on the line, both let out pressure and water.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

If my blower motor was not working at all the fuel would cook the system right? I have no way to tell if for certain the fan is working.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

I do not think it is the circulators, they power on and I can purge water. The pipes to get hot, but the system does not run long enough to get it all about the zones. It over heats rapidly in an 'out of control' like fashion until it over heats which happens fast, usually no more than 15 mins. Back when it worked it took 45 mins+ to get it into the zones..


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## ewdudley (Nov 21, 2014)

R Mannino said:


> I'm guessing a bad motor on the burner. With power at B1 on the aquastat the burner should be running.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

I heeded that info, but when I initially tested those B terminals I did not have the system running, I simply had some of the electrical components powered on...


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## ewdudley (Nov 21, 2014)

Just so we're clear, when you say it is overheated what does the gauge next to the aquastat read?


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> I am trying to keep up hold in there with me!
> Water does seem to be heating the pipes and circulating but does not reach the tap system, it is as if it does not run long enough to fill the system.
> 
> The led sensor is fine as I replaced it.



Ok - what 'tap system'? What does that mean exactly?

I think you need to start over on some things you've said so far - each post brings more confusion. I went back to page 1 and you said more than once you had no power at L1 L2 but did at the Bs. That should not be possible. You either gave us bad info there, or have some really messed up wiring somewhere.

(I made it to bed but just had to bring this with me for some reason...)


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> I heeded that info, but when I initially tested those B terminals I did not have the system running, I simply had some of the electrical components powered on...



And this means exactly what?


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> And this means exactly what?



Just that I kept that in mind...



maple1 said:


> Ok - what 'tap system'? What does that mean exactly?
> 
> I think you need to start over on some things you've said so far - each post brings more confusion. I went back to page 1 and you said more than once you had no power at L1 L2 but did at the Bs. That should not be possible. You either gave us bad info there, or have some really messed up wiring somewhere.
> 
> (I made it to bed but just had to bring this with me for some reason...)



This is for hot water, not hot air. 

And, in the beginning when I tested the aquastat, it is exactly what I said. I read online somewhere that L1/L2 could test the low water cut off, and B1/B2 could test something else. There are two switches. I have to have them both on for it to run. When I tested those terminals, I only had one on. The system was not burning it simply had power to the system. I tested the L1/L2 and got a reading of 0, and when I tested the B1/B2 there was a reading of 120vac.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

As far as wiring issues, this boiler had the same wires when I started. I am in CIS and study circuitry, it would be a little hard for me to mix up 4-6 wires in a aquastat....


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

At one point I replaced the aquastat, removing wires and installing them as I go to the new unit. This same procedure was done on the low water cut off. It is not like there are a ton of wires. This is not an issue that was done on my part, the limits have not always been high, it is a boiler, there is no hot water on the tap, the circulators work, their is water in the system, the aquastat replaced, ignitor system from the ignitor box to the intermitent ignitor, nozzle, oil filter, etc etc etc..

This unit stopped working properly on its own and I started replacing parts, installing them in the same fashion they were removed. The issue is not on my part.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

ewdudley said:


> Just so we're clear, when you say it is overheated what does the gauge next to the aquastat read?



It is up over 220 degrees..


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> Just that I kept that in mind...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where exactly did you test L1/L2? If it was at those terminals in the stat, and there was zero there, then there should also be zero at B1/B2 since the power to those needs to come through the L1/L2 
first.


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

Scratch a little. When I tested those L/B terminals the two switches were on but the system was not burning. I had to check my notes on that one..


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

maple1 said:


> Where exactly did you test L1/L2? If it was at those terminals in the stat, and there was zero there, then there should also be zero at B1/B2 since the power to those needs to come through the L1/L2
> first.



There was most certainly a 0 read on the L1/L2 when I tested them... I got 120 on the B's and 0 on the L's. The Aquastat I ordered (this last one) was used but tested and I have not tested it with the meter yet.

I will test again. So what does that mean then? If this is the case?


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nedly said:


> There was most certainly a 0 read on the L1/L2 when I tested them... I got 120 on the B's and 0 on the L's. The Aquastat I ordered (this last one) was used but tested and I have not tested it with the meter yet.
> 
> I will test again.



So how is it possible to get power out of a device (the stat) with no power going into it?


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## Nedly (Nov 21, 2014)

Faulty circuitry... LOL. I will go test and take a picture.. If you have some alternative option toss it out there. I can test even switching the live and ground to find a read of 0. Well it did the last time I tested it.


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## maple1 (Nov 21, 2014)

I gotta get sleep. Maybe someone else will jump in for a while...

(Do you have a manual for the aquastat? Google can find one if not....  )


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## Nedly (Nov 22, 2014)

Ok so I tested them again and there is power at all the terminals now. So I referred to my notes and images and it did give me that false reading last time, and those L terminals go to the low water cut off, which I have replaced since I last tested those terminals.

And, the circulators are not powered by the blue box they are hard wired into the 120 volt system of the house..


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## Nedly (Nov 22, 2014)

Because there is some confusion..understandably as I have been developing knowledge and stats as I go, I will make up a new status.

My issue is that my boiler is overheating in a short amount of time, or, only running a small (15min) cycle before shutting down due to the internal thermostat in the aquastat. This short burn time is not allowing for the water systems of the house (or zones) to see any hot water, the only signs of hot water are the surrounding pipes and area (in its days of an operational condition it took around 45 mins to get hot water to the zones.)

Adjusting the limits does not change the outcome, even when set low it will still fire and heat up to the 220 degrees and shut down. When it shuts down it will not fire back up until hours later once it has cooled down.

The circulators are working, and are hard wired into the house, and have been purged to check for water. The L1/L2 & B1/B2 terminals on the aquastat were tested and give off the 120 volt read. The thermostat is jumped, and their are technically two, one for the house call (forced hot water usually off), and another for domestic water. I think it is still in call for heat once it shuts off, but I am not positive right now.

When I power on the switches, the intermittent ignitor starts in a tripped mode with the red light lit. At this point there is power to the system but the burner is not burning. If I hit that reset the system will then fire and burn. It will run through the quick cycle until it hits the hot mode which it then cuts the power to all of the components so that everything seems dead, and the power will not come back until the system has sat for at least a few hours and cooled.

The following parts have been replaced:

Nozzle
Ignition cover
Intermittent Ignitor
Aquastat (used but tested)
Low water cut off
CAD censor
Nozzle
Oil Filter
Large control box

As far as major components, the only ones not replaced are the circulators and the blower motor, and the main burner box. I do not have any way to tell if the blower motor is working or not. This is my next lead at the moment...


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## Nedly (Nov 22, 2014)

The one thing that makes me wonder is the limits thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but the high limit turns on and off the system right? It it not a temperature based "if / then" execution system? Say 'if' system reaches this temperature, 'then' do this.. and the low limit has a function in this too. But, when this system runs, it seems like these have no say or affect. I could drop these to 120 and the system will do the same, it will run up to 220 until it over heats and powers off....

What does that mean?? Is that normal?


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## ewdudley (Nov 22, 2014)

(The suggestion that the oil burner motor might be bad is aimed at the possibility that the motor is overheating and is cycling on its internal thermal cutout, even though it is able to run for a while.  If the motor was bad as in kaput then you would know it because there would be no noise [other than perhaps an ominous hum], or firing of the burner.  Since the boiler is heating up then it sounds like the motor is probably OK.)

Two things don't make sense.  One is that the boiler heats up to 220 no matter what the LO and HI settings on the aquastat are.  The other is that if the circulators are running, why isn't the boiler cooling down accordingly?  (And a third: if the aquastat high limit isn't turning the burner off then what is?  Is there a low water sensor or a separate fail-safe aquastat in series with the power supply to the L8124A aquastat that can interrupt power on overheat?)

The aquastat HI limit should shut the burner off according to its setting.  If it is not then the aquastat is not functioning correctly.

If you remove one of the wires connected to the aquastat T-T terminals (so there is no call for heat as far as the aquastat knows), the burner should come on an off according to the aquastat LO setting.  If it does not then the aquastat is not functioning properly.

Once you're sure the aquastat is working then you can figure out why the circulators are not moving heat away from the boiler.

(When you fiddle with HI and LO be sure to keep HI substantially above LO. Study "Fig. 12. Relationship of setpoints and differential." in the aquastat sheet to understand how that works.)

You may want to print off a copy of the aquastat schematic:

https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/95-0000s/95-6571.pdf

Study the schematic and use your voltmeter to convince yourself you know how it works and what voltages you should see at various points, vs. what you do in fact see. (Be sure you're looking at internal schematics for the L8124*A* as opposed to the other flavors.)


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## Hogwildz (Nov 22, 2014)

Is the exhaust a natural draft flow, or is there a power venter on it?
I had similar issue with forced air furnace heating up, but hitting overlimit and shutting down, traced it to the power venter gone to shat, and replaced it, then all was well.
Just a stab. May not be your issue, but figured I'd throw that out there.


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## maple1 (Nov 22, 2014)

I'll begin new again, by commenting on your new status post with things I see are wrong or confusing. These go along and in addition to with what ewdudley posted.

*My issue is that my boiler is overheating in a short amount of time, or, only running a small (15min) cycle before shutting down due to the internal thermostat in the aquastat. *If the stat is working right, it will shut it down per the settings on it. So I don't think it is shutting down due to the internal thermostat in the aquastat.

*This short burn time is not allowing for the water systems of the house (or zones) to see any hot water, the only signs of hot water are the surrounding pipes and area (in its days of an operational condition it took around 45 mins to get hot water to the zones.) *It doesn't matter how short the burn time is - if the boiler is getting hot, the zones should see hot water. So there's a problem on the circulation side of things. And if it took 45 minutes to get hot water to the zones in 'operational condition', then there was a problem then too, because your zones should see hot water in just a couple of minutes if the boiler is hot and there is a call for heat from the zones.

*Adjusting the limits does not change the outcome, even when set low it will still fire and heat up to the 220 degrees and shut down. When it shuts down it will not fire back up until hours later once it has cooled down. *At what boiler temp does it fire back up again?

*The circulators are working, and are hard wired into the house, *Wired how? In order for your system to work right, the zones have to communicate with the boiler to tell it when they need heat. We still don't know how that is done here. The fact you have the thermostats jumpered to give a constant call for heat just adds more confusion because that shouldn't be done. So it is a sign of improper system operation and controlling.

*and have been purged to check for water. *That still doesn't mean the water is flowing. You could have an airlock or bubble somewhere in your zone which would prevent flow. How much PSI is in your system? Do you have more than one pressure guage? Because they can fail - when mine failed, it failed with the needle stuck on normal PSI reading.

*The L1/L2 & B1/B2 terminals on the aquastat were tested and give off the 120 volt read. The thermostat is jumped, *Why?

*and their are technically two, one for the house call (forced hot water usually off), *How does the house heat then if the forced hot water is usually off? How is it turned 'usually off'?

*and another for domestic water. I think it is still in call for heat once it shuts off, but I am not positive right now. *This is also confusing since if you have the thermostat jumpered, there is always a call for heat.

*When I power on the switches, the intermittent ignitor starts in a tripped mode with the red light lit. *Does it also do this when you turn on the power when the boiler is cold? But this is another sign of multiple issues - the red light shouldn't come on unless there was a problem with the burner itself. Usually when the cad cell interrupts the burn, or if the points don't ignite the flame, or you lose oil pressure. Do you have steady constant oil pressure & what is it?

*At this point there is power to the system but the burner is not burning. If I hit that reset the system will then fire and burn. It will run through the quick cycle *How quick? How much time?

*until it hits the hot mode which it then cuts the power to all of the components so that everything seems dead, *So at this point, is there still 120 at L1/L2 &/or B1/B2? If there is now no power at L1/L2, then there is something else cutting power before it even gets to the aquastat. If there is power at B1/B2, then the burner itself is cutting out. But at that point, your circs should still be running and your boiler should cool off rather quickly.

*and the power will not come back until the system has sat for at least a few hours and cooled. *You need to find out what all still has power at this point (when it cuts out)..

*The following parts have been replaced:
Nozzle
Ignition cover
Intermittent Ignitor
Aquastat (used but tested)
Low water cut off
CAD censor
Nozzle
Oil Filter
Large control box*

*As far as major components, the only ones not replaced are the circulators and the blower motor, and the main burner box. I do not have any way to tell if the blower motor is working or not. This is my next lead at the moment...* If the burner is heating the boiler, then the blower is working. That is what makes most of the noise when the burner starts. It can't burn without the blower running.

There are multiple issues here - you really should get a burner guy in. A decent one should be able to figure out what's wrong in short order. Pretty hard for us to do from here without precise systematic trouble shooting & tracing feedback. And more pictures. And maybe an accurate schematic. Of your whole system.


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## Nedly (Nov 22, 2014)

Thank you for that, Maple1. I know it all sounds confusing but I am learning about these for the first time.

As far as I know regarding the thrermostats, there are two, one manages the part that calls for heat to the forced hot water system, and the other the tap.. (AS FAR AS I KNOW). When we moved here it was set up like this, and the people used it by leaving the house thermostat off and jumping the second one. It worked for a long time like this.

I agree that there could be a circulator bad too. There must be several issues and I have been working on getting in a pro. But my latest estimates were 300$+ (thats what the boiler guys around here want for a service call). I am going to snap a few more pictures so you guys can see what is going on....


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## STIHLY DAN (Nov 22, 2014)

Nedly said:


> I am in CIS and study circuitry, it would be a little hard for me to mix up 4-6 wires in a aquastat....


 
You have no idea of wiring, Reading schematics, Wiring diagrams. Not a clue!  Don't even think of getting huffy, after stating no power in but magic power out.

With all the components that you have already replaced, You are already over the price of a service call, except that you have had your mits in every aspect of boiler. So it will be 10 times harder for the tech as he has to go over every bit of the system wich is probably a good thing because if your terminology is 1/2 right. You have a cluster XXck, hacked in, home owner install from hell.

That felt good, most infuriating, stressful, confusing, thread I have ever read. Sorry if I offended you, but it had to be said.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 22, 2014)

Take a deep breath.


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## R Mannino (Nov 23, 2014)

STIHLY DAN said:


> You have no idea of wiring, Reading schematics, Wiring diagrams. Not a clue!  Don't even think of getting huffy, after stating no power in but magic power out.
> 
> With all the components that you have already replaced, You are already over the price of a service call, except that you have had your mits in every aspect of boiler. So it will be 10 times harder for the tech as he has to go over every bit of the system wich is probably a good thing because if your terminology is 1/2 right. You have a cluster XXck, hacked in, home owner install from hell.
> 
> That felt good, most infuriating, stressful, confusing, thread I have ever read. Sorry if I offended you, but it had to be said.




That needed to be said!  Thank You


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