# Enviro empress blower won't start up



## nanama72 (Nov 15, 2013)

We started with a problem with our empress last year that during the startup cycle it would shut down before the blower would start, but if we restarted it before it completely shut down, it would get going.

This season it would seem to start, but the blower would never get going and it just shuts down after it's startup cycle.  We tried cleaning it but that didn't work.

The installer came out and cleaned it more thoroughly, didn't help.  We replaced the blower motor, but that didn't help.  Now he thinks it's the motherboard.  This is another $250 or so repair.

I'm worried that replacing the motherboard also won't work.

We'd really like to put in a wood stove instead because we want to get rid of the blower but there are some rather big issues because our hearth is not adequate and this year it would be a bit hard on our budget.

Any advice?


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## stovelark (Nov 15, 2013)

Hello-   if you mean the convection (room) blower is not starting up, prob the POF exhaust sensor might just need cleaning or replacing.  Replacing the MB won't fix that.  The POF should have been cleaned during the annual cleaning.  The switch is the one above the exh blower.  It can be bypassed too for testing purposes.  If its the exh blower you are talking about, it is prob the MB. Good luck.


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## nanama72 (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm not sure if I have the terminology right.  What happens is it starts to light up and produce a flame, but then the blower never comes on and it shuts down due to overheating.  What is the exh blower versus the convention blower?  Definitely the convection blower does not come on but I'm not sure about the other one.  The blower we just replaced was damaged from overheating. The pellet stove was professionally cleaned.  If we don't need to replace the MB that would be great because it seems it's $400-$500.


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## nanama72 (Nov 15, 2013)

Also what is POF?


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## vinny11950 (Nov 15, 2013)

The convection blower is the motor with the big squirrel cage looking fan that blows the hot air out of the exchange tubes (top of the stove).  This fan does not start up right away on start up.  Once the fire gets going and the stove heats up, the fan gets going.

The other fan motor is the combustion blower or exhaust blower (exh blower) which produces the draft in the burn chamber that feeds the fire air and exhausts all the gases through your vent system.  This fan should run from beginning to end.

It sound like you are describing the convection blower not starting at all, which then lets the unit overheat and shut down (a good safety thing).

An insert is harder to trouble shoot because you can't get in there to see what's going on when its running.

This is the link to the manual on Enviro's website:

http://www.enviro.com/images/manual...n Empress-A FPI Domestic Technical Manual.pdf

At the back (page 15 and later) is an exploded view parts list which shows you all the motor and switches.  Stovelark is probably referring to part 1 when he/she  says POF switch.

On my stove I can unscrew a plate on the side and the switch comes out for cleaning.

I would check that first.

Make sure exhaust vent is clear.  Can you see the end of the exhaust and see if the air/exhaust coming out of the vent is a strong draft.

Then I would make sure there are no loose connections in the wiring connecting the blower, sensors to the mother and daughter boards.

Look to see if wires are damaged somehow.

Check fuses too.

After all that, I would suspect the mother/daughter board.  But usually they act crazy.  In your case it sounds like a sensor is not working or a connection is not connecting.

Lastly, if your installer changed the blower without knowing what exactly was wrong, then I would suspect their ability to fix the problem too.  I don't have a lot of faith in the installers knowing how to fix these things.  Just because they don't get paid enough to care.  So it usually ends up being better to DIY.

Look around these board here, as there are some very qualified pellet stove mechanics that could help you.  Don2222 and Smwilliamson come to mind.  PM them or call yet call.


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## stovelark (Nov 15, 2013)

Hello again-   Yes Vinny is right.  The POF (Proof of fire switch) can be removed and cleaned.  Its the indicator in the exhaust path that sends a signal to the Mother Board that ignition has happened by the hot exh gases closing that switch (Proof of fire switch).  The MB then lets the convection (room air blower) blower be turned on.  That same switch (POF) turns the unit off after you turn the stove off (the blowers keep running until the exh path has cooled down.)  If POF is not achieved by a certain time, the convection blower will not be let come on, the stove could overheat-  so it shuts down as its designed to do.  This POF sensor switch should cost you 25-35 dollars and is probably the culprit.  It can be removed to clean or replace, it sits above the exh blower.  It can also be bypassed to see if its the problem.  Good luck.   BTW-  the Mother Board should be around 300 dollars for that stove, even the latest multi-fuse type (2088).


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## seige101 (Nov 15, 2013)

Nanama72, if the above suggestions don't get you going send me a private message and will try and help you out. I have an enviro empress free standing unit and have a decent amount of experience with it. I also live in western ma, so if we can't get you running with a couple messages or even phone calls maybe a field trip is in order


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## nanama72 (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks everybody.  We tested the blower and bypassed it and it wasn't that but yes it was an electrical problem because the exhaust fan is working.  We had forgotten that the ribbon cable that connects the front panel to the motherboard was damaged a couple years ago when a chimney sweep was here and the outside panel of the insert fell and damaged that cable.  We just sort of put it back together but some of the pins were damaged and we actually had to restart the stove every time when the blower wouldn't start since, which is probably what burnt out the blower.  We ordered a replacement ribbon cable and are hoping that is the fix.


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## nanama72 (Nov 20, 2013)

We have a question about bypassing the blower.  We installed the replacement ribbon but the convection blower still wouldn't start.  We aren't sure we did the bypass directly.  What we did was cut the wires to the sensor and twist them together and it still didn't go on when we turned the insert on.


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## vinny11950 (Nov 21, 2013)

don't know about bypassing, but are you giving it enough time to warm up and start?

the convection does not start right away.

also, did you check the POF switch (part number 1 in the PDF manual)?  clean and replace.


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## nanama72 (Nov 21, 2013)

To clarify, the pellet stove starts up fine, gets going, but then shuts down when the convection motor doesn't come on.  We tried to bypass the POF switch and wanted to make sure we did it right.  We cleaned it and that didn't help, and we bypassed it as suggested above to see if that was the issue by contacting the two wires that went to the POF switch but that also did not make the convection motor come on.  Is it worth replacing if bypassing didn't work or did we not bypass it correctly to see if that was the problem?  We were following stove lark's suggestion above.


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## gtgoat (Nov 21, 2013)

Here is the service manual for enviro. Read and try to understand the start up process of how the stove works. Like someone mentioned above the POF switch has 2 different functions. When it's cold it tells the stove that it's okay to shut down the combustion blower. When its hot it tells the stove there is an adequate flame and you can operate as normal. There is a time when you'll want to jump the connection for the POF switch and a time when you want to leave it open.

http://www.enviro.com/images/manual...C-12145 Instruction PELLET Service Manual.pdf

Good luck.


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## nanama72 (Nov 23, 2013)

I don't believe it is the POF switch because theoretically if we put the wires together which we did, the convection motor should go on, correct?  What other way is there to bypass the POF switch.  If this is incorrect, we can try to install another one, but it's getting cold and we don't know what else to do short of replacing the stove.

We'll see what we can do with the tech service manual.  Thanks for forwarding it.


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## nanama72 (Nov 27, 2013)

We reviewed the tech service manual several times.  The convection motor was already replaced.  We bypassed the POF switch and that didn't work.  The trouble shooting guide recommends replacing the mother board.  I can't find one online and from what I understand that we have to replace both the mother and daughter board since nobody sends the one from 2008.  Should we spend the money to replace the mother board with the local business who replaced the blower motor or should we just replace the whole unit?  Has anybody else with enviro empress insert replaced the mother board with good results with this issue?


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## wwert (Nov 28, 2013)

Try starting the fan by hand after it has been running for a while. The POF closes before the fan comes on at about 120, the fan kicks in at 160. If you push the cage on the fan and it runs on its own for a while that tells you the fan is the culprit. I'm working on 1 now doing the exact same thing and a new fan is on its way.
Good luck and let us know how you make out.


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## wwert (Nov 28, 2013)

Just noticed you have an insert. There have been problems with inserts and the control board. Enviro replaced ones that caused problems for the first 2 years, but that is over. Try the above first and talk to your dealer


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## steamguy (Dec 3, 2013)

Just went through replacing the control board on our Empress this last summer as part of a general rehab of the stove. It's not that hard to do but it is expensive to do. Mine was killing blower motors due to a faulty design in the board. 

But your problem is that it's not starting the convection motor and the high limit is tripping. If the convection motor runs when connected directly to line voltage, it's for sure the control board.  

$o $orry to bring you expen$ive new$, but it $ure $ound$ like the control board i$ toa$t. 

The good news is that once you change it out, the stove will work better than it ever did. 

And if you don't have one now, get a surge suppressor on the stove. Not the cheap $10 ones, you will need to pay for a Tripp-Lite. They have a guarantee for connected equipment. (No I don't sell them, but I used to have to care for several million dollars' worth of television studio equipment and have seen the effect of cheap surge suppressors.) Surges can kill control boards in less than a second.


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## strange_cathect (Mar 4, 2014)

steamguy said:


> Just went through replacing the control board on our Empress this last summer as part of a general rehab of the stove. It's not that hard to do but it is expensive to do. Mine was killing blower motors due to a faulty design in the board.
> 
> But your problem is that it's not starting the convection motor and the high limit is tripping. If the convection motor runs when connected directly to line voltage, it's for sure the control board.
> 
> ...



Hey Steamguy,

Do you have any information on the motherboard "killing" the convection blower? I've got an Enviro Empress FS. My convection blower died and I ordered a new one and replaced it myself. It worked for several weeks. But now I'm seeing the stove shut itself off because of high temperatures. When I investigated I saw that the convection blower refuses to kick on. Any ideas? Thanks for any help.


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## steamguy (Mar 4, 2014)

Sent you a PM, if you find it of value I can share it here.


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## stovelark (Mar 5, 2014)

Hello all,    Enviro had some troublesome (not all of them) control boards around 2008-2009.  They replaced most of them under warranty if if affected the convection blower's operation.  With the new control board design (the multi fuse 2088 series presently used on Empresses) which can be used on older units, it is a nice design.  Not all older single fuse boards were bad, the symptoms were a noisy convection blower operation making you believe the convection blower was bad, but the mother board otherwise worked normally.  Putting power directly to blower verified the blower operating properly.  The Proof of fire switch (above the combustion blower's housing) senses heat from the exh path and sends a signal to the control board, allowing the convection blower to come on.  If the blower doesn't come on, overheating will prob occur, and the high temp sensor will turn the stove off.  The proof of fire also shuts off the convection blower through the mother board when the stove is in shutdown mode.  A dirty of defective POF switch will affect the convex blower operation. Most mother board issues will be indicated with the board not working correctly, not selecting correctly etc etc.  Hope this may help.  Bypassing (connecting wires together) the POF with the stove running in normal feeding mode will allow the convection blower to run, and will prevent the convection blower from shutting off automatically after stove is shut down. Good luck to all.


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## strange_cathect (Jan 15, 2015)

Does anyone know how to identify one of the bad boards? My stove was manufactured in December of 2008. I have to replace the convection blower about once a year. Something is clearly wrong here. Should I just bite the bullet and get a new control board? If so, what should I buy? There are several control boards out there...


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## steamguy (Jan 15, 2015)

The earlier control boards did not have a slide switch, feed rate trim, or combustion blower trim  (#s 1-3 below) to select a thermostat mode or fine tune operation. The control board comes as two pieces, with the control panel and the board.

Here's a photo (from the latest manual) showing the newer control board. Crossing my fingers that it sticks properly.


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## strange_cathect (Jan 15, 2015)

I have the thermostat control. However, on mine the switch is at the top, rather than on the side. And the switch moves left to right, not up and down.


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## stovelark (Feb 4, 2015)

Hi strange     then you do not have the newest multi-fuse board (2089 series).  It has a separate fuse for each electrical load vice the single fuse prior boards had.  This new board operates smoother than prior boards, usually makes convex noise go down as well.  Its pricey (MSRP $429) for the Mother and Daughter board combo, which it needs. I've had the new board in mine for 3 seasons, love it. Good luck


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