# Decided It's Time To Get A "Beater"...Used Car Shopping



## Dix (May 31, 2013)

Yep, enough of driving the truck.

Time to get a 4 cylinder what ever  it is.

Fire away. I've been looking, but not quite ready to take the plunge, hence this post


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## wesessiah (Jun 1, 2013)

honda civic. i've had a 95 civic for 7 years to compliment my 13-14 mpg mustang. i had a 99 civic before too. they're easy to work on, and cheap to buy parts for. the whole time i've had this one, the only repair i've made is replacing a fuel rail. which was actually a strange one, because i used to be a mechanic and never saw a broken fuel rail before, but it's a 15-20 minute fix that cost me $20. if you need to replace a motor (assuming 92-95, or 96-00 single overhead cam) it's only $500, and that would only get me a set of used factory heads and maybe an intake for the mustang. factory parts are easy to find since probably 75% of them get aftermarket parts installed, and those folks sell the factory parts. i paid $2000ish for it, and have put $20 into it, sans fuel, oil and tires... and i get 30+ mpg. mine is a dx, so nothing power in it, and it has 102 hp, so not something i go out of my way to pass anybody in. an ex would give you all power options, and 125-127 hp and a little more confidence in passing... 20 hp is noticeable in a 2500ish pound car.
or, if you're looking newer, pretty much anything these days. i still prefer honda for my daily drivers (my wife has an acura, and wouldn't be caught dead in my old civic) and ford for trucks and go fast cars


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## WES999 (Jun 1, 2013)

I recently bought a Ford Fiesta from Hertz used cars
https://www.hertzcarsales.com/vehicle/details/13854341
Like this one, for about same price.
Had it for about 6 mo.
So far I am very happy with it, consistently gets over 40 MPG on the hwy.
Cut my fuel cost about in half from the Ranger.


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## TMonter (Jun 1, 2013)

I'd look at the following:

Nissan Sentra
Toyota Corolla
Honda Civic

All three are solid vehicles that have been around for 15+ years and have a record of reliability and good gas mileage.

I'm on my second Corolla in 18 years and have no complaints. The last one went 220k+ miles before we sold it and bought a newer one.


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## Backwoods Savage (Jun 1, 2013)

We're thinking about selling our Pontiac Vibe but could never get what it is worth. We've been looking at new cars for over 2 years now and still have not found what we want. One big thing is gas mileage. Our care is rated at 34 mph on the highway. We check every tank of gas and from the time it was new we've averaged between 36 and 37 mpg. I think our highest was 44 mpg and our lowest was 28 mpg. That low one was pulling a heavy trailer and (sadly) going too fast but it did well except for the mileage.


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## Dix (Jun 1, 2013)

wesessiah said:


> honda civic. i've had a 95 civic for 7 years to compliment my 13-14 mpg mustang. i had a 99 civic before too. they're easy to work on, and cheap to buy parts for. the whole time i've had this one, the only repair i've made is replacing a fuel rail. which was actually a strange one, because i used to be a mechanic and never saw a broken fuel rail before, but it's a 15-20 minute fix that cost me $20. if you need to replace a motor (assuming 92-95, or 96-00 single overhead cam) it's only $500, and that would only get me a set of used factory heads and maybe an intake for the mustang. factory parts are easy to find since probably 75% of them get aftermarket parts installed, and those folks sell the factory parts. i paid $2000ish for it, and have put $20 into it, sans fuel, oil and tires... and i get 30+ mpg. mine is a dx, so nothing power in it, and it has 102 hp, so not something i go out of my way to pass anybody in. an ex would give you all power options, and 125-127 hp and a little more confidence in passing... 20 hp is noticeable in a 2500ish pound car.
> or, if you're looking newer, pretty much anything these days. i still prefer honda for my daily drivers (my wife has an acura, and wouldn't be caught dead in my old civic) and ford for trucks and go fast cars


 
2 G is about my limit right now.

What is the range of engine mileage (before they crap out) would be acceptable, if I expect to get a year or 2 out of it?


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## Dix (Jun 1, 2013)

Backwoods Savage said:


> We're thinking about selling our Pontiac Vibe but could never get what it is worth. We've been looking at new cars for over 2 years now and still have not found what we want. One big thing is gas mileage. Our care is rated at 34 mph on the highway. We check every tank of gas and from the time it was new we've averaged between 36 and 37 mpg. I think our highest was 44 mpg and our lowest was 28 mpg. That low one was pulling a heavy trailer and (sadly) going too fast but it did well except for the mileage.


 
Dennis, any 4 cylinder is going to beat the 12 - 14 that the F250 gets right now. I've pretty much recuperated from Murph's surgery expenses, but the truck is killing me in gas, and tacking on miles & wear & tear. Not good. I need it to last a while.


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## wesessiah (Jun 1, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> 2 G is about my limit right now.
> 
> What is the range of engine mileage (before they crap out) would be acceptable, if I expect to get a year or 2 out of it?


mine has 196,000 miles on it. if they've kept oil in it then most of the possible issue is gone... this is the second honda i've had with high mileage... the other one got to about 220,000 miles before i gave it away. if you like straight drives then that makes it simpler for possible transmission maintenance. if you need to change a clutch all you'll need are basic hand tools, a jack and a couple jack stands, and a haynes repair manual if you haven't done it before. look to buy from an older person, try to find one that has a factory exhaust, and a stock airbox. those last two just give a better indication it wasn't abused. to be honest though, i've seen people abuse hondas terribly (running around with basically no oil... the oil light doesn't come on with the older ones till it's almost gone) and they still end up smelling like roses. if you find a non vtec model civic (dx, lx, vx) it's less likely to be abused since they made anywhere between 70 and 105 hp and less likely to be raced. even the sohc vtec in the ex is still a solid motor when driven by somebody trying to race it all the time though. i consider any of them with less than 150,000 miles to still be in their prime, of course, base it on the overall condition of the car though.


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## Dix (Jun 1, 2013)

wesessiah said:


> mine has 196,000 miles on it. if they've kept oil in it then most of the possible issue is gone... this is the second honda i've had with high mileage... the other one got to about 220,000 miles before i gave it away. if you like straight drives then that makes it simpler for possible transmission maintenance. if you need to change a clutch all you'll need are basic hand tools, a jack and a couple jack stands, and a haynes repair manual if you haven't done it before. look to buy from an older person, try to find one that has a factory exhaust, and a stock airbox. those last two just give a better indication it wasn't abused. to be honest though, i've seen people abuse hondas terribly (running around with basically no oil... the oil light doesn't come on with the older ones till it's almost gone) and they still end up smelling like roses. if you find a non vtec model civic (dx, lx, vx) it's less likely to be abused since they made anywhere between 70 and 105 hp and less likely to be raced. even the sohc vtec in the ex is still a solid motor when driven by somebody trying to race it all the time though. i consider any of them with less than 150,000 miles to still be in their prime, of course, base it on the overall condition of the car though.


 
Thank you for the info, very, very much.

Trust me, this Cow Girl isn't changing a clutch  , car has got to be automatic (not that I can't drive a stick, but battling Lyme, and it's in my knees, so shifting & clutching is a witch!!)


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## BrotherBart (Jun 1, 2013)

Check with your county and town to see how they get rid of their old cars. Most school divisions and social services departments have a bazillion little cars.


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## Dix (Jun 1, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Check with your county and town to see how they get rid of their old cars. Most school divisions and social services departments have a bazillion little cars.


 
I gotta watch it.........Hurricane  Sandy cars are all over the place


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## BrotherBart (Jun 1, 2013)

For two grand you ain't gonna be watching much.  Thing with the gov cars is they have the maintenance history. And the employees are scared to get caught hurting them by the ever watchful citizens.

I know. I used to have one have one assigned to me. Park at Walmart and it is in the newspaper the next day.


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## Ehouse (Jun 2, 2013)

A Ford Escort wagon, (35 + mpg) is now my pickup truck.  Got a 1998 with 89,000 mi for 28 hundred bucks. I can load a 10' 2x4 and close the hatch.  Trailer hitch for it and the wife's CRV.  Good to go.


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## vinny11950 (Jun 2, 2013)

I found my 1996 Jeep on Craigslist.  Only 75,000 miles on it.  I paid $2,500.  It was a good deal but I still had to drop another $1,500 in maintenance (tires, hoses, filters, and belts).

My strategy was to search for a car in the rich neighborhoods on Craigslist.  Wealthy people get rid of stuff that still has a lot of good life in it just because they upgraded to something new.

It takes a lot of searching though, as you will find a lot of shady deals out there.  But the text message in the ad will tell you if they are genuine or just auto auction flippers.

Good luck.


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## basod (Jun 2, 2013)

You might want to see if you can get into an auction nearby.
Most trade ins with 80k+ can be had for under $2500 - used dealers sweep them up detail them and tack on 4k


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## firefighterjake (Jun 3, 2013)

I've had a beater car for a number of years . . . have to since I live 33 miles from work and the price of gas in a V-8 pick up would soon drive me to the poor house.

For years I ran a Toyota Celica (even though I found out after buying it that it was a "girl's car" according to my buddy . . . thing is . . . I would still buy one of these today since it was near bullet-proof, fun to drive and had great gas mileage) . . . ended up picking it up from a guy who was moving . . . sold it when the rust started to reach the point where it was beyond my repair expertise.

Picked up a Honda Accord coupe . . . gets about the same gas mileage, maybe a dite less than the Celica . . . but also fun to drive and quite reliable . . . I think I'm up to 172K and it's still going strong with nothing other than oil changes, tires, etc. changed out so far.


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## Bocefus78 (Jun 3, 2013)

The beater I am rolling is an old 97 Ford escort 4 door.  30+ MPG, not enough power to hurt itself, and it has a mazda motor and tranny. AC, PW, PL work and all. I paid $1200.  Foreign reliability without the foreign price. In my area, foreign beaters are going for double what american ones are.  All I have done to it is oil changes, tires, and brakes. H3ll, the AC is still colder than my 2005 Chevy truck!


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## Highbeam (Jun 3, 2013)

Be careful now, I've done the math and the extra gas that you would put into the truck is cheap compared to all of the extra costs associated with the small second car. For my 8 mile commute I save money by driving an F350 crew cab 4x4.

You have to drive a lot of miles daily to make the small car pencil out.


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## lukem (Jun 3, 2013)

I think early-mid 90's Geo Prizms are sporting Toyota powertrains used in the Corolla.  They can be had for cheap because, honestly, who wants to drive a Geo?


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## TMonter (Jun 3, 2013)

lukem said:


> I think early-mid 90's Geo Prizms are sporting Toyota powertrains used in the Corolla. They can be had for cheap because, honestly, who wants to drive a Geo?


 
Geo Prizms were available from I believe 1989 through 2002 and they are exactly the same as a Corolla minus a few minor body panel differences. They are inexpensive to drive and bulletproof like the Corolla in terms of longevity.


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## Ehouse (Jun 3, 2013)

TMonter said:


> Geo Prizms were available from I believe 1989 through 2002 and they are exactly the same as a Corolla minus a few minor body panel differences. They are inexpensive to drive and bulletproof like the Corolla in terms of longevity.


 

Yep, had a 1990.  Around 39 MPG.


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## mithesaint (Jun 3, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Be careful now, I've done the math and the extra gas that you would put into the truck is cheap compared to all of the extra costs associated with the small second car. For my 8 mile commute I save money by driving an F350 crew cab 4x4.
> 
> You have to drive a lot of miles daily to make the small car pencil out.


 

Really?  Even when accounting for the cheaper costs of maintaining the small car?   Even when factoring in the cost of having to replace the F350 that much sooner because of the miles?  

I ask because I'm about 8 miles from work and would eventually like to have a beater car for work and a decent truck for weekends and bad weather, and thought it would probably save a few bucks over the long run vs driving a expensive truck every day.  

Apologies for the partial thread derailing.


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## TMonter (Jun 4, 2013)

mithesaint said:


> Really? Even when accounting for the cheaper costs of maintaining the small car? Even when factoring in the cost of having to replace the F350 that much sooner because of the miles?
> 
> I ask because I'm about 8 miles from work and would eventually like to have a beater car for work and a decent truck for weekends and bad weather, and thought it would probably save a few bucks over the long run vs driving a expensive truck every day.
> 
> Apologies for the partial thread derailing.


 
50 weeks a year * 5 days = 250 days * 16 miles = 4000 miles per year (roughly)

Multiply that by the cost per mile to operate the vehicle including original cost and I would bet it's pretty high for the truck. I'm betting $0.35 per mile at least.

So with gas and maintenance it costs $1400/year. If you figure a decent car cost of 2500-3k I would bet overall you would be more than break even in 3 years.


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## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

mithesaint said:


> Really? Even when accounting for the cheaper costs of maintaining the small car? Even when factoring in the cost of having to replace the F350 that much sooner because of the miles?
> 
> I ask because I'm about 8 miles from work and would eventually like to have a beater car for work and a decent truck for weekends and bad weather, and thought it would probably save a few bucks over the long run vs driving a expensive truck every day.
> 
> Apologies for the partial thread derailing.


 
Yes really, if you have to have a truck anyways then with a short commute it is a loser to own a second commuter car. 

It is a myth that maintenance costs are significantly higher on a per mile basis for pickups vs. small cars. Any additional "truck" maintenance costs are more than offset by the depreciation of the car and the need for similar maintenance on the car. I don't know if you have a gas or diesel truck but I have been surprised how cheap it is to maintain my diesel truck.

4000 miles per year from commuting will not affect truck life. The years will destroy the pickup much faster than the miles at that rate. Expect more than 200,000 miles from a modern pickup (mine is at 171,000) and you know that not many trucks are 50 years old.

You have to insure and register both vehicles whether you use them or not. What's your cost on that? I asked around and folks seem to pay about 80$ per month. Okay so you need to save at least 80$ per month in fuel to even cover the dang cost of having both vehicles in your driveway, not to mention purchase price or maintenance of the car. This month is June, in June there are 20 work days. You had better be saving 4$ per day in fuel alone just to break even.

With me so far?

15 mpg in the truck with a 16 mile commute and diesel at 4$ per gallon means I pay 4$ per day in fuel. You can stop now because you know that the car will use at least a little gas.

Let's cripple the truck farther and say I only get 12 mpg which is what I get when towing my 8000lb trailer. I log this stuff. So 16 miles is 1.3 gallons which is 5.20$ each day in fuel.

The car gets 30 mpg. That is optimistic since you aren't purchasing a new car and since this is a short commute. Today's gas price is 3.90 per gallon so that costs you 0.533 gallons which is 2.08$ per day. Uh oh, do some subtraction and you are only saving 3.12$ per day.

Bummer, you won't even cover insurance and tabs. Then you have to buy the car (which results in a monthly depreciation cost). The car is a loser.

I also put a value on driving the truck to work. I value the comfort and safety of a large vehicle. People in a one ton truck have a pretty good chance of surviving a wreck with most other vehicles on the road.

Now I also ride and race off-road motorcycles so I happen to own a street legal dirt bike. When it is sunny, I ride it to work. It get's 60 mpg. Since I already own the bike for recreation the fuel mileage benefit is all gravy and I am saving money when I commute with it.


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## firefighterjake (Jun 4, 2013)

In my own case it made economic sense to buy a commuter car . . . then again I have a 66 mile round trip every work day . . . and the Titan only averages 14 mpg (the reason it is mostly used for hauling toys and wood.)

The other benefit is living out in the country it is nice to have a "second" vehicle in case one of the vehicles ends up in the garage for a day or two . . . or more.


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## TMonter (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Yes really, if you have to have a truck anyways then with a short commute it is a loser to own a second commuter car.
> 
> It is a myth that maintenance costs are significantly higher on a per mile basis for pickups vs. small cars. Any additional "truck" maintenance costs are more than offset by the depreciation of the car and the need for similar maintenance on the car. I don't know if you have a gas or diesel truck but I have been surprised how cheap it is to maintain my diesel truck.
> 
> ...


 
$80/month is pretty high for registration and insurance but it does depend on location. My registration and full coverage on my car costs $33/month and half that on my truck with liability.

Also you are only including the cost of gas, not of wear and tear on the truck which will have a much higher price tag when it comes for replacement, especially if you are driving on salt laden roads in the winter time.

The overall cost of ownership of a truck is much higher than that of a car and the numbers do prove this out, especially which you include purchase cost.

If the truck is paid for and you'd like to hang onto it for a long time I'd say you'd be money ahead to buy a small commuter car in most cases not to mention for longer trips and general day-to-day driving.

And honestly how much depreciation can you expect on a sub 5k car? The truck is going to have far more depreciation by driving it as pickups tend to have more resale value, especially diesel pickups.


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## midwestcoast (Jun 4, 2013)

My budget car is a 2005 Scion XA that we bought in '08 when we moved out of the city. Needed a 2'nd car on the cheap since we'd just bought a house. Got a deal from a friend.  It only had 17K when we bought & has 80K on it now.  
I would recommend sticking with the slightly bigger & more common models Corolla, Civic...   This thing hasn't been bad on maintenance, but it was never very nice to drive. It's starting to get rattly now & I just don't see it getting even close to 200K with any sort of grace.  Can't wait to sell it really, but not in the cards for a while.
It also seems many of the domestic brand small cars are made WAY more durable over the last 10-15 years than the previous junkers, so worth a look at least.


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## Ashful (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Be careful now, I've done the math and the extra gas that you would put into the truck is cheap compared to all of the extra costs associated with the small second car. For my 8 mile commute I save money by driving an F350 crew cab 4x4.
> 
> You have to drive a lot of miles daily to make the small car pencil out.


 

I was going to post the same, until I saw Highbeam beat me to it. Careful in your math... it's very hard to justify a second vehicle purely on cost, driving any normal level of yearly mileage. Consider repairs, maintenance, inspections, insurance, yearly depreciation, etc., not just purchase price!

I would love to have something more sporty than the 4x4 pickup I drive daily, and believe me I've tried all options to justify it, but just can't.


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## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

TMonter said:


> $80/month is pretty high for registration and insurance but it does depend on location. My registration and full coverage on my car costs $33/month and half that on my truck with liability.
> 
> Also you are only including the cost of gas, not of wear and tear on the truck which will have a much higher price tag when it comes for replacement, especially if you are driving on salt laden roads in the winter time.
> 
> ...


 
Ah but you can't use "cost of ownership" or some other nonsense. You will be owning the truck regardless so a large lump of the "cost of ownership" is not applicable. It will always be cheaper per mile to drive a high mpg car, that is not the issue.

The savings of driving the high mpg car minus the costs of owning the high mpg car must exceed ONLY the cost of driving the low mileage truck before it is economically feasible to buy an extra mpg car. The savings are just not very significant with a low mile commute.

Everything has depreciation. This is not about comparing depreciation since you will be owning the truck regardless.


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## briansol (Jun 4, 2013)

Odds are, if you buy any Honda, it will get stolen or broken into, even if it's a hooptie.  keep that in mind.


I'd recommend a b13 chassis Nissan sentra with the 1.6 or 1.8L
parts are cheap and widespread and motors are a dime a dozen because everyone swapped 'em out for the g20/ser sr20de engine.

30+ mpg, cheap to insure won't get stolen.


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## TMonter (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Ah but you can't use "cost of ownership" or some other nonsense. You will be owning the truck regardless so a large lump of the "cost of ownership" is not applicable. It will always be cheaper per mile to drive a high mpg car, that is not the issue.
> 
> The savings of driving the high mpg car minus the costs of owning the high mpg car must exceed ONLY the cost of driving the low mileage truck before it is economically feasible to buy an extra mpg car. The savings are just not very significant with a low mile commute.
> 
> Everything has depreciation. This is not about comparing depreciation since you will be owning the truck regardless.


 
But only if you never plan on replacing the truck. I would say the cost of ownership for most people is applicable even on a vehicle with a already sunk cost.

The savings should include all aspects of the cost of ownership including the cost of future replacement.

Don't forget with a high MPG car it's not just the driving commute either, it's trips to the grocery store ect that end up being more likely taken in the car.


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## wesessiah (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Ah but you can't use "cost of ownership" or some other nonsense. You will be owning the truck regardless so a large lump of the "cost of ownership" is not applicable. It will always be cheaper per mile to drive a high mpg car, that is not the issue.
> 
> The savings of driving the high mpg car minus the costs of owning the high mpg car must exceed ONLY the cost of driving the low mileage truck before it is economically feasible to buy an extra mpg car. The savings are just not very significant with a low mile commute.
> 
> Everything has depreciation. This is not about comparing depreciation since you will be owning the truck regardless.


i agree with your idea, someone should factor everything in. that being said, full coverage on my 95 civic is $35 a month (multi car discount knocked it down probably 10$ a month, and reduced the cost of my other vehicles, so i ended up total about 10$ more a month for another car with full coverage) tires for it (185/70 13" tire) cost me about $250 for four tires, whereas the 235/75 17" ( early 2000's f150 size used) costs about $600, and that's a small wheel/tire compared to a lot. this civic holds 3.5 quarts of oil, and a 5.4 f150 holds 6.5 quarts. to your point, these things should be taken into account to see if there is a benefit, along with the cost of replacement parts. an alternator for example... 2003 f150 5.4 is $200 for remanufactured, and 95 civic is $130. in any scenario, the beater would have to be kept for a while to pay off. i've had mine for 8 years, and i consider keeping the wear and tear off my other vehicles to be priceless. if someone pays to have their vehicles maintained and doesn't replace parts themself,  i'm sure the offset of paying for labor for both vehicles doesn't help the cause, or show as much of a benefit in cost of parts. if the vehicle your concerned about is on the road less, there's also less of a chance of something happening to it to be paid out of pocket... damage that doesn't meet your deductible... my civic has taken all kinds of small damage i would have fixed on my other vehicles, but since it's on the civic, i haven't bothered. things like small dents, chips in paint, broken headlight bracket for a raccoon. with a 17 mile round trip, my civic has paid off in tires and oil. like you said, someone with a different drive may not benfit as much, or at all though.


briansol said:


> Odds are, if you buy any Honda, it will get stolen or broken into, even if it's a hooptie. keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> I'd recommend a b13 chassis Nissan sentra with the 1.6 or 1.8L
> ...


while i do agree it's a good car, and wouldn't sway anyone from getting one, it's also always a top ten stolen car... along with all of the big three american trucks, and any popular/highly sold vehicle. another nissan, that also gets good mileage, is the s13 and s14 240sx.


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## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

wesessiah said:


> i agree with your idea, someone should factor everything in. that being said, full coverage on my 95 civic is $35 a month (multi car discount knocked it down probably 10$ a month, and reduced the cost of my other vehicles, so i ended up total about 10$ more a month for another car with full coverage) .


 
Now we're getting somewhere. It doesn't take many miles to overcome that 10$ per month plus tabs.


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## wesessiah (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Now we're getting somewhere. It doesn't take many miles to overcome that 10$ per month plus tabs.


for a younger person, or someone living in more of an urban, or subarban area than i do, the insurance would be much higher. mine is exceptionally low, and could be twice as much for the civic depending on location. i should have made a disclaimer about that in that post... i happen to have a good set of circumstances to base mine on.


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## Dix (Jun 4, 2013)

mithesaint said:


> Really? Even when accounting for the cheaper costs of maintaining the small car? Even when factoring in the cost of having to replace the F350 that much sooner because of the miles?
> 
> I ask because I'm about 8 miles from work and would eventually like to have a beater car for work and a decent truck for weekends and bad weather, and thought it would probably save a few bucks over the long run vs driving a expensive truck every day.
> 
> Apologies for the partial thread derailing.


 
No need to apologize.... I was looking for this info, too, as I remembered HB had discussed this


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## Dix (Jun 4, 2013)

TMonter said:


> $80/month is pretty high for registration and insurance but it does depend on location. My registration and full coverage on my car costs $33/month and half that on my truck with liability.
> 
> Also you are only including the cost of gas, not of wear and tear on the truck which will have a much higher price tag when it comes for replacement, especially if you are driving on salt laden roads in the winter time.
> 
> ...


 
Try New York... reregistered the truck after it sat for 1 year....... reggie was 285 ..... insurance $125 per month .


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## Dix (Jun 4, 2013)

OK, more info....

Current work trip is 18 miles per day, 5 day week. That includes coming home for lunch (glad I could do it because after Murphy's bladder stone surgery, he had to "retrain" his bladder). Also 3 trips out  the horses, and 1 trip to the museum, another 250 miles a week.

Current work situation not the greatest by a long shot, hence a desire to expand my horizons. Will stay until some thing comes up.

Hence the quest for a good MPG, automatic car.

Better job, less wear & tear, a win/win for me, me thinx


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## Highbeam (Jun 4, 2013)

Until you establish your new job I would stick to the single vehicle. The additional stability not only allows you to commit the funds to purchase the second car but allows you to decide if it makes financial sense.

What does your current pickup get for mpg?


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## Dix (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Until you establish your new job I would stick to the single vehicle. The additional stability not only allows you to commit the funds to purchase the second car but allows you to decide if it makes financial sense.
> 
> What does your current pickup get for mpg?


 
The Beast gets 12-14 going back & forth. Gas is $3.80 per gallon, unless I get lucky.


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## wesessiah (Jun 4, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Until you establish your new job I would stick to the single vehicle. The additional stability not only allows you to commit the funds to purchase the second car but allows you to decide if it makes financial sense.
> 
> What does your current pickup get for mpg?


i agree with this... getting the beater should be considered a long term benefit, but it shouldn't be bought in a time that could put you in a vice short term.


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## briansol (Jun 5, 2013)

I've always been a 2-vehcile man.  I do it the other way, though.   I have a nice car for daily driving, and a beater truck for hauling and yard work, etc etc.


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## Highbeam (Jun 5, 2013)

Thing is, at least in my case, the truck needs to be very dependable. Nothing ruins a vacation faster than breaking down on the freeway in 100 degree temps in an area with no cell phone service while hooked to an 8000 lb trailer 6" from the fog line on a 70 mph freeway.


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## briansol (Jun 5, 2013)

I hear ya.  But I'm also from the 'camp' that camping with a camper isn't camping at all


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## TMonter (Jun 5, 2013)

briansol said:


> I've always been a 2-vehcile man. I do it the other way, though. I have a nice car for daily driving, and a beater truck for hauling and yard work, etc etc.


 
That's exactly how I work here. My Truck isn't a true beater per se but it is an older pickup with very bad gas mileage.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 5, 2013)

wesessiah said:


> but it shouldn't be bought in a time that could put you in a vice short term.


 
Nothing wrong with a new vice every once in a while.


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## Highbeam (Jun 6, 2013)

briansol said:


> I hear ya. But I'm also from the 'camp' that camping with a camper isn't camping at all


 
Who said it was a camper? Well it is and I know very well the difference between tent camping and RV camping. Very luxurious in a modern camper, my hotel on wheels. It is true R&R.

In my youth I worked in the cascade mountains for an outfitter every summer. I packed mules and would lead a string up to the edge of the official wilderness where we would set up tents and an outcamp for "campers" that would arrive on horseback for the weekend. Lots of fun. Learned to cook for large groups in dutch ovens over wood fires. Learned that campers stash booze bottles in their sleeping bags. Learned that women love cowboys, etc.


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## daveswoodhauler (Jun 6, 2013)

Do you have physical damage coverage on the truck? Reason I ask is that I know that reg/ins fees are very high in NY, so a second car is probably going to run you a min of $100/month just for insurance.

Would you need to take the truck to go see the horses? (Not sure if you need to trailer them?)


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## Dix (Jun 6, 2013)

daveswoodhauler said:


> Do you have physical damage coverage on the truck? Reason I ask is that I know that reg/ins fees are very high in NY, so a second car is probably going to run you a min of $100/month just for insurance.
> 
> Would you need to take the truck to go see the horses? (Not sure if you need to trailer them?)


 
No collision on the truck right now ( kills me ) would like to add when I can.

Car will be registered in Florida, my Mom comes up to visit & would need wheels, so hence the FLA reggie.. Florida has no state inspection.

I'm not trailering, towing, or hauling horses right now, the horses are 15 miles from the house to the east (I work to the west, right now). I currently run the truck out to the barn, but with a car, I would run that instead, as well as to work.... I'm out there  4x's a week, and it's another 10 miles past the horses to the museum (part time job/weekends) on one of those days.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 6, 2013)

I am thinking commuting on a horse. 

And pics.


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## Dix (Jun 6, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> I am thinking commuting on a horse.
> 
> And pics.


 
And when would I sleep??????


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## briansol (Jun 7, 2013)

under the stars like a cowboy?


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## Highbeam (Jun 7, 2013)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> And when would I sleep??????


 
I've nodded off on a horse while the horse was grazing but could never do it while underway.


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## MasterMech (Jun 12, 2013)

TMonter said:


> My Truck isn't a true beater per se but it is an older pickup with very bad gas mileage.


 
Define "very bad".  My C3500 (6 - 8MPG) is by far the worst MPG vehicle I've ever owned. And that's after 4 pickups and a 5.0L Mustang.


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## Sprinter (Jun 15, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> I am thinking commuting on a horse.
> 
> And pics.


How many miles/bale does a horse get?


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## Dix (Jun 15, 2013)

Sprinter said:


> How many miles/bale does a horse get?


 
1/2 a bale a day.

You're mileage is  gonna vary, for sure


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## jharkin (Jun 17, 2013)

I'll give another vote for a used Honda or Toyota. Pretty much any small car by either company will go 200-300k without breaking a sweat. Have you heard about the guy with the million mile Accord?

I am a big fan of Honda's personally. Growing up my parents drove a '77 Civic 4MT as the econo car... saved us many times the Chevy van we also had was broken down. Then my mom had a '85 Civic5MT... that went to abot 240k before we junked it. It was driven very hard (100 miles a day at one point) and poorly maintained but kept giong. Then she got a '95 Civic 5MT that would have hit 200+ but my sister wrecked it. And after that an '04 Civic auto. All of these got well over 30mpg.

My own first car was an '82 Accord 5MT. That thing got almost 40mpg and I drove it from 140k to 190k but then it rusted out (Honda didn't start galvanizing their bodies until the 90s). After a brief stint with a Dodge I pickup up an '87 Accord hatchback 5MT for $500 and got another 50k out of that before selling it at 220+. That got over 30mpg. Next car was an Acura RSX 6MT, which is really just a fancy civic with better suspension and more power. Still going at 11 years old and 90k, even with 200hp I can average 31+ if I drive it conservatively.

Looking at used Honda's be wary of any auto V6 from the first half of the 2000's (not likely what you want of course) - they had transmission problems. Other than that you should have an issue

Toyota's wont steer you wrong either. My wifes '01 Corolla auto used to get 38mpg on road trips. When the kids came we sold it to my Dad to use as a beater car when he isn't driving the Chevy fullsize van work truck to job-sites.

The only downside of Honda's and Toyota's is the resale value is very strong. As mentioned earlier an alternative is to pickup a late model Nissan Sentra. They can be had cheap, only thing you give up is a little bit of reliability compared to Toyota.

If you want the absolute most mpg your dollar will buy a diesel VW might be the ticket. Only concern is that most folks I know who own VWs have at least one horror story about breakdowns and maintenance costs.


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## Highbeam (Jun 17, 2013)

jharkin said:


> If you want the absolute most mpg your dollar will buy a diesel VW might be the ticket. Only concern is that most folks I know who own VWs have at least one horror story about breakdowns and maintenance costs.


 
You spoke of resale value earlier with some japanese options, well let me tell you, those diesel VWs hold their value better than any other option. They have a cult like following probably due to their amazing 50+mpg reputation. Their are more reasons than mpg to drive a diesel though and it's hard to explain until you drive one. The power delivery is more effortless. Unfortunately, VW has never been great at making cars.


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## Ashful (Jun 17, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Unfortunately, VW has never been great at making cars.


 

Ahem... (cough)


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## Highbeam (Jun 17, 2013)

Joful said:


> Ahem... (cough)
> 
> View attachment 104652


 
I owned and loved a VW scirroco but like that bug, you needed to know how to turn a wrench.


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## Hearth Mistress (Jun 17, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> You spoke of resale value earlier with some japanese options, well let me tell you, those diesel VWs hold their value better than any other option. They have a cult like following probably due to their amazing 50+mpg reputation. Their are more reasons than mpg to drive a diesel though and it's hard to explain until you drive one. The power delivery is more effortless. Unfortunately, VW has never been great at making cars.



Not sure what your experience was with VW but since the early 60's my entire family has had many different VWs both gas and diesel and all but 1 "lived" well over 200k miles (because it was in an accident beyond repair, not anything else) Diesel engines need a bit more care, fuel anti-gel and block warmers for us folks in colder climates but IMHO, VW,is  pretty good at making cars. With ANY car, it's lifespan depends on the owners commitment to scheduled maintenance, that plays a HUGE part. My husband wants a kubelwagon, their WWII military model.  Quite a few out there, we are just out of driveway


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## TMonter (Jun 17, 2013)

Joful said:


> Ahem... (cough)
> 
> View attachment 104652


 
Making a lot of cars doesn't mean you are good at making reliable cars which is what I think he was referring to. The bug was a simple easy to work on design but it could hardly be called reliable in comparison to a Corolla or Civic.


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## jharkin (Jun 17, 2013)

NOt intending to turn this into a German vs. Japanese vs. American reliability contest. My experience is only anecdotal not having owned them just I know a lot of folks that have been stranded by VWs and especailly Audis

Ive seen the Mike Miller magic BMW maintenance schedule, but the reason why late model German cars continue to rank below average in all the reliability statistics are issues that no amount of fluid changes will fix- typically electrical - ignition coils, injectors, ecu problems, fuel pumps, etc. Think BMW 60k cooling system overhauls and all the HFPF problems when they all went to direct injection. Good buddy of mine drives and '06 A6 avant, he has been stranded with failed injectors or coils 3 times in as many years, and needs to fix his sunroof annualy. I also used to have a roomate with an S4 - water pump was an annual job on that thing. Other roomate drove an E26 M3 and had similar problems. In 10 years the only unscheduled job my Acura ever needed was a burned out secondary 02 sensor (knock on wood). It was fun to borrow those other 2 cars though 

Ive had this discussion with Joful before I think.. I _*love*_ the styling and performance of German cars. If they would just ditch Bosch/Continental and start buying their electrical components from Nippondenso I would convert in a heartbeat  In fact I know they* can* do reliability if they want to, Porsche manages to deliver the performance with Lexus like reliability. Their countrymen need to take notes.


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## TMonter (Jun 17, 2013)

jharkin said:


> NOt intending to turn this into a German vs. Japanese vs. American reliability contest. My experience is only anecdotal not having owned them just I know a lot of folks that have been stranded by VWs and especailly Audis
> 
> Ive seen the Mike Miller magic BMW maintenance schedule, but the reason why late model German cars continue to rank below average in all the reliability statistics are issues that no amount of fluid changes will fix- typically electrical - injectors, ecu problems, fuel pumps, etc. Think BMW 60k cooling system overhauls and all the HFPF problems when they all went to direct injection. Good buddy of mine drives and '06 A6 avant, he has been stranded with failed injectors 3 times in as many years, and needs to fix his sunroof annualy. I also used to have a roomate with an S4 - water pump was an annual job on that thing. Other roomate drove an E26 M3 and had similar problems. In 10 years the only unscheduled job my Acura ever needed was a burned out secondary 02 sensor (knock on wood). It was fun to borrow those other 2 cars though
> 
> Ive had this discussion with Joful before I think.. I _*love*_ the styling and performance of German cars. If they would just ditch Bosch/Continental and start buying their electrical components from Nippondenso I would convert in a heartbeat  In fact I know they* can* do reliability if they want to, Porsche manages to deliver the performance with Lexus like reliability. Their countrymen need to take notes.


 
The Germans have great initial quality but as you say, their long term reliability is pretty poor. Much poorer than most other makes out there in fact. I have a neighbor with a mid 2000's Mercedes S500 that he's had to have repaired several times now. It's been in the shop more times than the entire life of my last Corolla.

That being said not everything Bosch did was bad. The Bosch solenoid fuel injection on the 1976 Volvo that was my first car was downright bulletproof. That car had 515k miles on the original engine with no rebuild and all the original fuel injection system except for the fuel pump.


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## Highbeam (Jun 17, 2013)

Hope we didn't derail the thread too badly. I would love to have a VW diesel in my driveway, I love diesels that much and VW is the only option. Same diesel engine performance in a honda or toyota car would be much much better than the VW car.

This also happened with the cummins turbo diesel in the 90s. People loved (still love) that cummins engine and many hated that they could only get it in a dodge truck.

Looking for a used "beater" with the idea of saving money you would want to avoid a diesel engine. Old gas engines are quite reliable and cheaply maintained and fixed. Not so much on a diesel. Diesel engine repair is expensive.


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## TMonter (Jun 17, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> Hope we didn't derail the thread too badly. I would love to have a VW diesel in my driveway, I love diesels that much and VW is the only option. Same diesel engine performance in a honda or toyota car would be much much better than the VW car.
> 
> This also happened with the cummins turbo diesel in the 90s. People loved (still love) that cummins engine and many hated that they could only get it in a dodge truck.
> 
> Looking for a used "beater" with the idea of saving money you would want to avoid a diesel engine. Old gas engines are quite reliable and cheaply maintained and fixed. Not so much on a diesel. Diesel engine repair is expensive.


 
I know people who have purchased older diesel vehicles and just opted to put a new engine in the car. That's not a bad route to go.


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## begreen (Jun 17, 2013)

Highbeam said:


> I owned and loved a VW scirroco but like that bug, you needed to know how to turn a wrench.


 
Agreed, they have made some great cars, but they don't excel at making low maintenance cars. Some of the later models are ridiculously over-complex so getting a used one can set one up for lots of annoying failures of relays, connections, etc.. They're fun when they run right, but that can be a crap shoot on the later models. They are tightly engineered and require special fluids and good electricals to function correctly. Add my vote for getting a used Honda or Toyota. I have had good luck with Subaru and Nissan as well.

Highbeam, Chevy is selling the Cruze with a diesel now if you are looking for an alternative. Mazda and Subaru diesels sound imminent.


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## Highbeam (Jun 17, 2013)

begreen said:


> Highbeam, Chevy is selling the Cruze with a diesel now if you are looking for an alternative. Mazda and Subaru diesels sound imminent.


 
I knew about teh cruz a while ago from an "upstairs" meeting at our chevy dealership. I think it is great news that these new cars are putting mpg as a high priority and using diesel, electric, turbos, direct injection gasoline, and combinations of all to get there.  

I'm just not a new car buyer.


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## Ashful (Jun 18, 2013)




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## jebatty (Jun 19, 2013)

Regardless of what beater you buy (my preference is Toyota), my guide for purchase price for any vehicle is that the purchase price divided by $0.10 should be the minimum miles you will be able to drive it with only "normal" maintenance and gas for cost (other than insurance and registration). By normal maintenance I mean oil and filters, and as needed battery, tires, wiper blades and maybe a major scheduled maintenance IF the car is nearing 100,000 miles on it since the last scheduled maintenance. This means that if you spend $2000, you should be able to drive at least 20,000 miles with only the cost of gas, oil and filter changes (every 5000 miles for oil/filter for me, which I do myself).

This has been my guide since the '80's and hasn't failed me yet. And is why I only buy used cars. As for Toyota, I buy Camry's, plenty of room comfortable, and 30+mpg. Our '05 bought used has 170,000 miles on it, looks new as it should, and get 33-34 mpg on the highway. Our '07 bought used has 125,000 miles on it, looks new as it should, and gets 34-35 mpg highway. We drive the Camry's to 250,000+ miles, and our '97 with 265,000 miles on it still sold for $1900.

As for maintenance, I speak only for Toyota Camry's, since that has been my car since 1986: one major service at about every 100,000 miles and nothing else, other than oil/filter, tires, wiper blades, etc. Since '86 only one Camry had mechanical part failure while we owned it: the '97 had a rear wheel bearing failure and the water pump failed. I am sure there are other highly reliable vehicles out there, some having been mentioned by others.

The $0.10/mile purchase price amortization pretty well rules out lots of new vehicles, but you aren't looking for new anyway. But 30+mpg should be the minimum you are looking for.


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## jharkin (Jun 19, 2013)

Joful said:


> View attachment 104778


 

I'll race ya


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## Ashful (Jun 19, 2013)

jharkin said:


> I'll race ya


 

Wow... you own one of those?


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## Dix (Jun 20, 2013)

You guys & gals keep talking... I'm to busy right  w/ 7 + hours of over time a week...getting me closer to my goal


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## Dix (Jun 21, 2013)

How about 1 of these??




V-6, yes a convertible, and red  , with 68,000 original miles. I took pics, will upload tomorrow (they are on my phone ).

Kelly & Edmonds say between $1500 - $2500.... no asking price yet, but will be reasonable, I am sure. Belongs to the brother of the woman who owns the farm where Dixie & Matisse  are.

http://www.edmunds.com/chrysler/le-baron/1992/consumer-reviews.html


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## jharkin (Jun 21, 2013)

A v6 K-car??


I thought you where looking for good mileage and reliable...... .


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2013)

Price a replacement convertible top.


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## Dix (Jun 21, 2013)

jharkin said:


> A v6 K-car??
> 
> 
> I thought you where looking for good mileage and reliable...... .


.
Reviews say 20- 29 MPG

Remember, I stopped paying attention to cars a long time ago.


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## Dix (Jun 21, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Price a replacement convertible top.


 

I have pics of the top...it's not too shabby.

Remember, beater. 1 - 2 years out of it.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2013)

Ragtop fever. Everybody has to own one sometime. Me too. In 1981 flew to California, bought it and had a great drive back to Texas. Fun but never will own one again. 

Go for it.


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## jharkin (Jun 21, 2013)

80s and early 90s Chrysler was about the low point of american car reliability. My sister drove an old beater lebaron in college. That car stranded her at least 3 or 4 times in less than a year. Drank a quart of oil per tank of gas too.

Its your money but if you want a drop top for $2k, I think you would get more fun and a lot less aggrivation out of a first gen Miata.


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## Dix (Jun 21, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Ragtop fever. Everybody has to own one sometime. Me too. In 1981 flew to California, bought it and had a great drive back to Texas. Fun but never will own one again.
> 
> Go for it.


 
I had a 69 Camaro Indy Pace Car .... loved that car

It's red, BB .. talk about a bold move for me on many, man levels 

*disclaimer* ... finally to the point where I can look .. just putting stuff out there.


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## BrotherBart (Jun 21, 2013)

That exact same car was my brother-in-laws mid life crisis car. He loved it. 

My mid life crises car was a 1995 3/4 ton 454 Suburban. Still got it.


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## begreen (Jun 22, 2013)

You could do worse Dix. Ask if the transmission fluid has ever been changed and if not have it checked out. Also check when the timing belt is due to be changed. If it is at 60K, uh oh!, it's overdue. If it was well maintained and the belt was changed at 60K you should be able to pull a fun 30K out of it.


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## vinny11950 (Jun 22, 2013)

I bought a used 1987 LeBaron from a friend who is a gear head.  He took real good care of it.  Low miles.  It was real nice with the wood paneling look outside and the corinthian leather inside.  Most comfortable car I ever had.  Sitting in anything else just doesn't feel right.  That is why I put up with so much mechanical failures as it went along.

I had to replace an engine gasket (which was common for that engine model), and the transmission also had to be rebuilt.  What finally did my love in for the car was the convertible top.  When it rained hard and at certain angles on how the car was parked, water would accumulate in the inside of the car.  The floor mats would get soaked and water would be swishing around for days until I found a steep enough angle so it would drain out.

The floors rotted away and the electrical started malfunctioning.  Look for rust underneath the carpets, or even rust holes on the underside of the car.

It is a fun car to drive, with plenty of power and easy to work on, but it will require maintenance.


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## Ashful (Jun 22, 2013)

jharkin said:


> 80s and early 90s Chrysler was about the low point of american car reliability. My sister drove an old beater lebaron in college. That car stranded her at least 3 or 4 times in less than a year. Drank a quart of oil per tank of gas too.
> 
> Its your money but if you want a drop top for $2k, I think you would get more fun and a lot less aggrivation out of a first gen Miata.



Ditto on everything here, even my sister owning a 1990'ish red Lebaron in college!  Weird.


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## Dix (Jun 22, 2013)

Uploaded pics


















These would have to go !


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## begreen (Jun 22, 2013)

If it hasn't been serviced recently for the timing belt I'd stay away. That could add $500-$1000 to the car price and shouldn't be deferred. Take your time, you can do much better for reliability. Here's a sampling of LI craigslist offerings today:

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3883074895.html
http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3830082318.html
http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3832002037.html
http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3887578006.html


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## homebrewz (Jun 22, 2013)

I've found Hyundai's to be pretty reliable and they are usually lower in price than similar makes They made the Elantra wagon until 2000.
Would be good for hauling stuff out the horses, etc. One of the things I don't like is that the timing belt interval on them is 60kmi.  
Just a thought..


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## begreen (Jun 22, 2013)

Yes, I was also looking for a late 90s Sonata for Dix, but didn't see one right now.


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## Dix (Jun 22, 2013)

begreen said:


> If it hasn't been serviced recently for the timing belt I'd stay away. That could add $500-$1000 to the car price and shouldn't be deferred. Take your time, you can do much better for reliability. Here's a sampling of LI craigslist offerings today:
> 
> http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3883074895.html
> http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/3830082318.html
> ...


 
I'm scoping out Craigs List ever day.

Big problem is the geography, plus you have to be on the alert for "Sandy Cars" ... that one in Elmont sent my radar off. Plus, I'm 1 1/2 hours away from there.

Soldiering on ....


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