# Harman TL 300 Users



## cyclone (Oct 5, 2008)

This is the fourth time firing up the stove and have a couple of questions?

The gasket around the stove door, does this harden?

Putting the stove into after burn definetlly does needs coals as some mentioned.. With that said when it does kick into after burn I see little flame with flames going into the back of the after burn chamber. I also notice flames appear and they roll around the inside of the fire dome and disappear.   Looking through the class it is crystal clear with all the above mentiooned.  Also no smoke coming out the chimney.

Is that what it is looks like when it is in afterburn???


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 5, 2008)

I have the insert version  of the harman which preforms the same way as your TL 300.Since im very new also with my wood stove!(bought in the early spring and used 4 times then)i am also looking for input from others out there.Seems to be many users of VTs everburn stoves but not too many with the harman!which is also a downdraft type stove.The four times i did use mine i had the same experiences as you had.I belieave that when you see the flame roaring in the back chamber via the looking glass the afterburn is operating.You can confirm this by looking outside for smoke!there should be verry little or none.A few others on this forum have our type of stoves and you may hear from them,just search on TL 300.I am planning on starting to burn mine veery soon!possibly later today!its starting to get a bit cool around here.Keep us informed on how its working for you!I will also from time to time adding my comments on how mine is doing.Im going to try to get a pic of the afterburn in action but might be abit hard since i am not the best at taking pics.  Stan the burning man.


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## djarseneault (Oct 5, 2008)

murry said:
			
		

> This is the fourth time firing up the stove and have a couple of questions?
> 
> The gasket around the stove door, does this harden?
> 
> ...



Just about to start my second season w/ tl300. What you are descibing is normal operation. And the gasket may harden after a while, but if it becomes brittle or starts to fall off, replace it.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 5, 2008)

After only using my TL 300 ten times or so, this is what I know/learned to answer your questions. First, it does seam that the door gasket does get "hard". I dont remember this happening on my old Englander but I have done the dollar bill test and it seam to be fine. Have not noticed any other issues with the gasket. As far as the secondary burn goes, I am still in the process of messing with it to find what works best. The one thing that I have noticed is the deeper your coal bed is the less finicky it seams to be. I also learned that in a hurry or a pinch (cause its still a little warm out to be dumping a pile of wood in it) that if you push the coals back around and pile them up in front of the throat of the after-burn chamber it works ok too. I believe that I have successfully had the after-burn in and operating for an extended period of time on several occasions. However, I do not get this woosh or jet engine sound that some talk about. Most of the time I try and set the wood so that a small portion of the throat of the after-burn chamber is visible. I can see flames going up into the chamber and also observe flames around the small air inductor holes located in this area. The reasons I believe I have been successful with the after-burn, first off is there is no visible smoke coming from the chimney. Second, I am able to maintain 500 degree stove top temps for an extended period of time with little to no visible flame in the fire box. This thing has my interest and I am curious to find out what it takes to get this elusive jet engine sound. I am thinking that colder outdoor temps will aid in its discovery. Hope I could help you some murry.

Edit: also one other thing to mention. I have noticed that once the after-burn is engaged, (assuming you do this with the air wide open) that by turning down the air to one half to one quarter seams to increase the health of the after-burn. Not exactly sure yet why this is, but it is not always effective.


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## BJ64 (Oct 5, 2008)

I have not seen the TL 300 in action and have only burned my Lopi Leyden twice with little break in fires.  I was a bit over eager to shut the bypass last time but I did get it to rumble for about 2 or 3 min.  I had to shut the blower off and get behind it to identify the noise.  Then, after knowing what to listen for I could hear it from the front rather faintly before it stalled out.  

I did see flames getting sucked into the back slot and I seen something glowing back in there, similar to Tradergordo's videos of his VC Dutch West.   

I'm excited, and a tad bit concerned, to see how this experiment goes.  I is good to get feed back from other down draft stove folks to get a heads up on this thing.


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## uptrapper (Oct 6, 2008)

Just started burning wood to heat my home this year and I purchased a tl-300 this spring but did not install until this summer.  I have burned about 10 fires and I am getting the deep humming and wooshing noise but it dosn't last long.  You will definately know it when you hear it but mine only does it for about a minute.  I am getting fairly long hot burns (450 stove temp with my $11 thermometer) but it has only been below freezing a couple times so I am not fully loading the stove.

Mike


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## virvis (Oct 8, 2008)

New TL300 owner trying to get the thing to burn correctly.  I've fired it up 6 times now and I just don't seem to be able to get the heat out of it.  I get the top load door up to about 500 degrees (that's about as high as I can get it with a roaring fire), throw in a few more logs, let it burn for a few more minutes, kick in the bypass and the load door temp usually drops to around 350-400.

maybe I'm not getting a large enough coal bed in the bottom.

Any thoughts from someone who's burning one of these with success?

thanks,
Jim


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## N/A N/A (Oct 8, 2008)

virvis said:
			
		

> New TL300 owner trying to get the thing to burn correctly. I've fired it up 6 times now and I just don't seem to be able to get the heat out of it. I get the top load door up to about 500 degrees (that's about as high as I can get it with a roaring fire), throw in a few more logs, let it burn for a few more minutes, kick in the bypass and the load door temp usually drops to around 350-400.
> 
> maybe I'm not getting a large enough coal bed in the bottom.
> 
> ...




With the warm temps outside, I am finding that I have the best luck with stove top temps closer to 600. I burn hot and fast a min of an hour before I even try to kick it into after-burn. And even at this, I am still learning. I have luck 50% of the time. Then with a little rearrangement of wood and coals it works. I will have it down to a science before long.


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## virvis (Oct 8, 2008)

Do you find that you have to have your firebox loaded up pretty high to get up to 600?  I haven't had it past 550 yet.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 8, 2008)

Not at all. The first hour or so I use mostly small stuff. Keep adding and let it burn. I think a big key is with this stove, is that the stove itself needs to be hot. The air thats inducted into the re-burn chamber is super heated by going through channels around the fire box before being released around the throat of the re-burn chamber and in the re-burn chamber itself. If the stove is not hot enough to heat this air it would make it difficult to obtain a good healthy re-burn. It takes me some time to get the stove hot. Like I said a min of an hour. To be honest about it I bet an hour and a half easy. I look at the coal bed thickness and the stove top temp as a guide of when to kick in the re-burn.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 8, 2008)

Virvis, check out this series of videos made by tradergordo. The videos are excellent. He is burning a different stove than what we have but his stove is also a down draft type stove, the same as our stoves. Both stoves operate on the same principle. Watch them all, because I do almost the same as he does to operate my stove. This should help you some. 



https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/14536/


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## virvis (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks for the info.  I'll check them out.


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 8, 2008)

I have the Harman exception which is the insert version of the TL 300.I have burned it the last two night with good results.From a cold start i the first load of wood i burn to mostly coals with damper and air control fully open,then put some big splits in wait a few min then close the damper.The afterburner in the back starts up and runs.Temp at this point not verry hot!maybe 450 to 550.Close down the air flow to around one third open and afterburn keeps going most of the time till the coals burn down.I have a few pics if interested in another thread  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/24776/


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## MishMouse (Oct 8, 2008)

virvis said:
			
		

> New TL300 owner trying to get the thing to burn correctly.  I've fired it up 6 times now and I just don't seem to be able to get the heat out of it.  I get the top load door up to about 500 degrees (that's about as high as I can get it with a roaring fire), throw in a few more logs, let it burn for a few more minutes, kick in the bypass and the load door temp usually drops to around 350-400.
> 
> maybe I'm not getting a large enough coal bed in the bottom.
> 
> ...



How seasoned is your wood?
Do a search on this forum with TL300, TL-300, TL 300 I have posted some infomation on how I burn the TL300.
The key to getting extened burn times is seasoned wood and a good coal bed 3-4" at the least.  I have been getting between 12-17 hour burn times (temps above 400) with wood seasoned over a year and a well extablished coal bed.


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## virvis (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks MishMouse,

The wood I'm using now is oak from a large tree that was cut down last year, I cut it into logs and split it this summer so it's actually been split for about 3 months.  I guess it may not be dry enough because it does sizzle a little when I throw it in.

I haven't burnt wood for very long and have a question you might be able to shed some light on.  I have standing dead oaks that have been dead for about 4 years.  How long will they stay good or should I cut them down and burn them this year.  The bark is coming off of them now.

thanks


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## MishMouse (Oct 13, 2008)

virvis said:
			
		

> Thanks MishMouse,
> 
> The wood I'm using now is oak from a large tree that was cut down last year, I cut it into logs and split it this summer so it's actually been split for about 3 months. I guess it may not be dry enough because it does sizzle a little when I throw it in.
> 
> ...



I would cut them split them and cover them, you might be able to use them later in the year depending on its moisture level. One question about the issue with your stove not getting up to temp, does your stove have a blower?
If it does do not turn it on until the stove is burning properly, a blower can cool off a stove in a hurry.


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## virvis (Oct 14, 2008)

yes, it has a blower.  I'll try burning it without using the blower at all.

thanks for the info.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 17, 2008)

Iv used the TL-300 about 3 times so far and have good draft but sometimes i get a  lot of creosote buildup inside the stove ,on the glass, in the flue pipe,in the chimney.
does anyone know how to tell if the afterburner is working , iv called the dealer but it is amazing how little they know about what they sell


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## N/A N/A (Oct 17, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Iv used the TL-300 about 3 times so far and have good draft but sometimes i get a lot of creosote buildup inside the stove ,on the glass, in the flue pipe,in the chimney.
> does anyone know how to tell if the afterburner is working , iv called the dealer but it is amazing how little they know about what they sell



Sometimes you can hear it. Sounds like a jet engine. Its not very loud though. You can also see it. If you look at the opening to the re-burn chamber in the back of the fire box you can see flame going into this area. Also I have noticed that area surrounding the opening will glow red. (the brick) You can simply tell by if your stove holds a stove top temp above 400 degrees for a period of time 20 min or so. Likewise with the connector pipe thermometer. Or you can just simply look at the opening of your chimney outside to check for visible smoke. If its working there will be little to no smoke at all.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks Firefighter29
ITs pretty hard to see the After Burner opening ,as there is usually wood in front of it.
Does the afterburner stay lit(once it starts) even when you turn the air down to the lowest setting for overnight burns?
Im wondering if this stove is better than the cat stoves or are they better,perhaps they burn smoke at lower temps.
I got this stove cuz my old (cheap) stove likes to tar up my chimney and flue pipe and i could not burn it overnight.  
Any thoughts on burning very dry softwood as i have loads of it and i need to get rid of it. I get it from houses i remodel ,so i guess some of it is 100 years old, so no need to season it.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 18, 2008)

Burn the softwood. It will be no issue. As a matter of fact I got about a cord and a half of pine myself. At first I tried to position the wood so that I could see the re-burn chamber opening. Thats how I could tell whats it was doing. I have only used my TL 300 about 20 times so far. And every time I do I learn more about the stove. The re-burn will go out after the wood burns down so far. But at this point there is not much really left to worry about creosote. I was able to start my stove real early today as the outside temp permitted it. Was able to watch the stove go through its entire burn cycle. The longer I have this stove the more I like it. When you first try it out, it seams so hard to get a good healthy re-burn but trust me, after you kinda figure it out you will find its real easy.


Edit: sorry, and yes it is able to keep the re-burn going on the lowest air setting. Sometimes I have found it actually works better that way.


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## branchburner (Oct 18, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Any thoughts on burning very dry softwood as i have loads of it and i need to get rid of it. I get it from houses i remodel ,so i guess some of it is 100 years old, so no need to season it.



Yes, burn it, but mix with cordwood - stove temps might get a bit high on a straight diet of antique pine!


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks guys , 
Im really glad i stumbled on this site as my dealer is no help at all so i emailed harman directly but they keep refering me to the dealer who is just about clueless as i had about 5 or 6 questions and so far they answered none. I keep getting soot on the glass but i suspect its from not getting the chimney and the stove hot enough for a strong draft, or the wood is too close to the glass,also do you guys have the optional blower and how are you applying it, i suspect im turning it on too soon and up too high and preventing my stove from reaching proper burning temp, thus the creosote problem and the after burner not working.
Im going to try a magnetic temp gauge to determine burn temps. Where is the best place to place it? I got the fireplace screen and the cooking grill too but i did not try it yet. Best regards Randy


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 18, 2008)

My glass still gets some tinting from burning but seems to be getting less and less in time,It could be that im burning better and hotter.Im thinking when it gets colder the downdraft will be even stronger than it is now helping to keep my glass cleaner.


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## MishMouse (Oct 18, 2008)

When wood gets to close to the door it can build up the black stuff when it burns down, but it normally burns off when you fire it back up. Yes a blower can really cool down the afterburn chamber especially if you do not have seasoned wood.

Myself I didn't opt for the blower and instead went with a 3 blade eco-fan.
My Reasons:
It doesn't cool the stove down
No Electricity
Wide disbursement of heat
End of season sale at home depot < $85 delivered
Similar cfpm as the blower

As for overly dry wood softwood, I would mix both hard and softwoods together.
With overly dry wood if you do get a good draft and not pay very good intention to the stove when you are bringing the stove temps up you could very easily overfire it as with any more modern stove that has secondary air.


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## branchburner (Oct 18, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Thanks guys ,
> Im really glad i stumbled on this site as my dealer is no help at all so i emailed harman directly but they keep refering me to the dealer who is just about clueless as i had about 5 or 6 questions and so far they answered none. I keep getting soot on the glass but i suspect its from not getting the chimney and the stove hot enough for a strong draft, or the wood is too close to the glass,also do you guys have the optional blower and how are you applying it, i suspect im turning it on too soon and up too high and preventing my stove from reaching proper burning temp, thus the creosote problem and the after burner not working.
> Im going to try a magnetic temp gauge to determine burn temps. Where is the best place to place it? I got the fireplace screen and the cooking grill too but i did not try it yet. Best regards Randy



Yeah, you hit the nail on the head with this site - Harman refers everyone to the dealers and they are only rarely helpful, so that leaves this place - a great resource.
I'm just getting statrted with the Oakwood and would say relax, everything I've heard indicates you won't get a good feel for all the ins and outs of these stove til the weather gets colder. Then you will have better draft, longer burns, less creosote, less soot, etc. I really even haven't tried for much secondary yet, but hope it's cold enough this weekend.
For now just make sure you don't get the stove super hot. I measure temp on the stovetop, go up to 500 real quick, so I may need to check my gasket/seals. But even 600+ is not a prob, just not for extended periods.
My big worry is my wife will throw a big load on and leave the air wide open and walk away! This isn't like the antique cooksove we had - it's a real burning MACHINE!


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 18, 2008)

[quote author="branchburner" date="1224321550

My big worry is my wife will throw a big load on and leave the air wide open and walk away! This isn't like the antique cooksove we had - it's a real burning MACHINE![/quote]

Hi honey! why is it so hot in here and what is that redish glow in the other room  :lol:


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## N/A N/A (Oct 18, 2008)

branchburner said:
			
		

> trump said:
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Also dont be afraid to try different things. If its not working for you dont be afraid to stick the poker in there and mix things up a bit. You will see that wood position does make a difference. At least from my experience so far. Also, if it didnt work the last time, try something new every time you fire the stove up. You guys with the downdraft type stoves will catch on. If I were you, I would not wait till the weather turns cold to figure the re-burn system out. But I guess its no big deal if your not heating with your stove full time like I am. If so figure it out now, before you need to rely on it. I have found that I can actually get more heat out of my stove letting it free burn rather than having the re-burn engaged.


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## branchburner (Oct 19, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> I have found that I can actually get more heat out of my stove letting it free burn rather than having the re-burn engaged.



Tell us more about this...


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 19, 2008)

I read that minimum temp to burn smoke without a catalyst is 1100 degrees as in the TL-300 , with a cat stove smoke will burn at 500 degrees,but is dependent on other variables such as draft , so i guess thats why you have to get the harman good and hot in order to fire the afterburner.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 20, 2008)

branchburner said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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Letting the stove free burn I can easily let it get hot enough to melt into a puddle of steel on my floor. I can balance the stove top temp out at 600 degrees no problem. And thats hot! Once the re-burn is activated, the most I can get on the stove top is 500 degrees. When I get a good re-burn going the stove does not like the air all the way up for some reason. You would think the more air the hotter the fire. Not the case when using the secondary combustion. I have found that I get puff backs and stalls from to much air.


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## MishMouse (Oct 20, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> branchburner said:
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Right now I rarely run it above the first notch when I put it into re-burn, anything above that right now would cook me out of house and home. But, one thing you will notice when the afterburn is engaged it puts out more heat at 500 when engaged then 650 when it is not engaged, especially if you are not using a blower. The reason, the afterburn chamber like a cat is magnifying the temp of the smoke causing it to be burnt. This puts out a heck of allot of heat. 
A Test you can try to see if it is working properly.

Without running the blower hold your hand above the stove when you are getting the stove up to heat and see how long you can hold your hand there. Then when you place it into afterburn and cut the air down to the first notch put your hand over the same spot and feel the difference, especially when it is roaring. 

As for stalling when you have the air wide open in afterburn, (Which is something I would advise against) this is my guess to what is happening.
First there are two ways air gets into the stove, is the primary air controlled by the little lever in front and the secondary air which is controlled by the stove itself. (Other people can probably explain the secondary air and back puffs allot better then I can  ) When in afterburn you have to maintain a balance between the two, allowing enough air to enter the stove from the front while not over powering the downdraft which is maintaining the secondary combustion.  When in afterburn your stove is much easier to control, holding a 400-500 stovetop temp while reburning the smoke is allot safer then a stove not in afterburn. 

I left the stove alone the other day when starting it and without putting it into afterburn I only had it between the first notch and the second notch, when I got back about 45 mins later it was above 700 stovetop. So if you go to bed without putting into afterburn you may just wake to a puddle of metal in the morning.  A song by the Talking Heads comes to mind....  %-P


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 20, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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When you say first notch!is this with the air rod almost all the way in for min air flow?So far this season i have been running my stove from one half to two thirds in on the air flow rod.


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## branchburner (Oct 21, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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Puddle of steel is right! I can get the Oakwood from zero to sixty (600, that is) in about 10 minutes. If I give it more small stuff, even if I shut the air most or all the way, the thing is looking to go solar. Afterburn w/ no air is about my only option then (I have to re-check my gaskets - seems a bit too hot, too fast), or else a big split to slow it. 
But once the bypass is shut it settles into a long 550 burn, and its for sure throwing a more even heat than a 700 warmup fire. I don't just go by the stove top number. Yes, you do get a good hot blast at 600-700 w/ the damper open. But the thing about the afterburn in this stove is the heat is thrown a bit more from the back of the stove than the front and top, so you might be fooled at first. Just compare - burn a good long fire both ways and I think you may see, the serious, steady heat comes with afterburn engaged.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

Where is thew best place for the temp gauge, thinking about 1 just at the front of the flue pipe where it exits the stove and another magnetic on the middle of the top load door. Also when i am warming up the stove from cold the flue pipe just above the stove will start to get red if i use full air on front air control.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

I found out the hard way that if you do not have the stove hot enough and you engage the afterburner(and it does not fire) for an overnight burn, you will turn a full load of wood into creosote, mess up the whole inside of your stove, flue pipe and chimney, stink up the house and the neighborhood.


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## branchburner (Oct 21, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Where is thew best place for the temp gauge, thinking about 1 just at the front of the flue pipe where it exits the stove and another magnetic on the middle of the top load door. Also when i am warming up the stove from cold the flue pipe just above the stove will start to get red if i use full air on front air control.



I have mine on the middle of the top load door. I may get one for the flue - I've read it should be placed at least 12 inches up, which will be tough for me with my setup.

You don't want red - that means you're pushing 1000. What's your stove temp when that happens?

I find warming up the stove from cold with a good load of small stuff I need to shut down front air control very soon. My stove is drafting a little too good. Everyone is going to have different draft issues, so that will effect the timing and temps a good bit for each of us. Just a matter of adapting to your own setup and developing your own system for a good burn, which is gonna take time (I figure I'll know what I'm doing right about the time Spring arrives!).


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## branchburner (Oct 21, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> I found out the hard way that if you do not have the stove hot enough and you engage the afterburner(and it does not fire) for an overnight burn, you will turn a full load of wood into creosote, mess up the whole inside of your stove, flue pipe and chimney, stink up the house and the neighborhood.



Righto! What are you burning besides that old lumber? That stuff should be great for getting up to temp (probably why you are glowing) but will not give you a coalbed. You need both before you can start a good long burn.
I can get my stove to temp, 600+, in 10 min w/ dry scrap, but then need the better part of an hour w/ some bigger stuff to get enough coals for an afterburn.


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## branchburner (Oct 21, 2008)

virvis said:
			
		

> Thanks MishMouse,
> 
> The wood I'm using now is oak from a large tree that was cut down last year, I cut it into logs and split it this summer so it's actually been split for about 3 months.  I guess it may not be dry enough because it does sizzle a little when I throw it in.
> 
> ...



I would leave that oak you split this summer for another year, or even two. If you get some sizzle, your afterburn will fizzle. The heat you need to burn smoke will be spent boiling water.

Oak is the best, but really needs time to dry out.
If you don't have any drier wood, I would go tackle a few of those standing oaks before the snow flies! My experience w/ standing dead is you will still have some moisture, especially in the trunk portion, but will dry pretty quick.

If I had those I would buck up the top halves of the trees for burning sooner, the bottom halves for burning later.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

Branchburner
I have a lot of 3 year old hardwood,cut 3 years ago  but i only split it 2 weeks ago ,still it seems pretty dry to me though. some of the old wood is oak also like T&G;floorboards, i dont think they would use soft wood for that. I usuall tell by the weight of the old wood,soft wood would be pretty light when is very dry and hard wood would be fairly heavy.Whats the deal with the deep coal bed ,is that to maintain high temp or what,if its too deep it will cover the front of the AB chamber.


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## branchburner (Oct 21, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Branchburner
> I have a lot of 3 year old hardwood,cut 3 years ago  but i only split it 2 weeks ago ,still it seems pretty dry to me though. some of the old wood is oak also like T&G;floorboards, i dont think they would use soft wood for that. I usuall tell by the weight of the old wood,soft wood would be pretty light when is very dry and hard wood would be fairly heavy.Whats the deal with the deep coal bed ,is that to maintain high temp or what,if its too deep it will cover the front of the AB chamber.



Yeah, if the 3-yr stuff was cut to length it should be pretty good - if it was log length maybe not. I've been using of hardwood pallet, like you old wood. I find it graet for getting the stove real hot real quick. It sound like it's maybe just a matter of adding gradually larger pieces til the afterburn wants to fire. 

I can't really explain the coal bed, but I think yes, to insure high temp. All I know is when it's there, my results are good. I don't think covering the base of the AB is a problem - I sort of recall reading that's it's a good thing to push the coals to the back, but don't quote me on that!

I've found the search engine to be very helpful, even if the threads don't directly address my stove. A lot of the principles are the same on the VC downdrafts, for example, even if the actual burn methods differ. A *lot *of VC talk on this forum!


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

Question for anyone monitoring temps on the tl-300. When the AB kicks in should it not have an immediate affect on the flue pipe temp as the flue pipe exits the stove just above the AB, would this not be a good way to judge if  the AB is actually lit as sometimes it is covered by wood, and with coals piled up you can not see the opening directly ,and the only way i can think of (if there is no wooshing sound)to be sure the AB is working is by the stove temps. Some have posted that the stovetop(load door) temp falls to 450-500 when they close the damper, but would not the flue pipe temp actually rise? Just a thought.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 21, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Question for anyone monitoring temps on the tl-300. When the AB kicks in should it not have an immediate affect on the flue pipe temp as the flue pipe exits the stove just above the AB, would this not be a good way to judge if  the AB is actually lit as sometimes it is covered by wood, and with coals piled up you can not see the opening directly ,and the only way i can think of (if there is no wooshing sound)to be sure the AB is working is by the stove temps. Some have posted that the stovetop(load door) temp falls to 450-500 when they close the damper, but would not the flue pipe temp actually rise? Just a thought.




Mine actually drops. When I first fire the stove up I let the pipe temp get up around 1000 degrees sometimes.  And thats usually about 550 stove top. Sometimes with the re-burn it CAN drop to around 425 pipe or 350 stove top.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 21, 2008)

branchburner said:
			
		

> MishMouse said:
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I dont think I totally agree with you guys. 600 is still warmer than 500 or 550. No matter how you look at it. $80 is not more money than $100. And I am not comparing efficiency or burn times. But at any given point in time with the numbers above the 600 degree stove is putting out more BTUs. Its obviously not going to burn as long with a given amount of wood but its still burning hotter. The difference might be that because the back of the stove is at temperature, you now have more surface area to transfer those BTUs from the stove to the room/air. Then again, from my temp numbers above, you can also take the stove pipe into account for both examples and include surface area to transfer heat. And the math to split hairs and actually figure this stuff out is a little above me right now. My collage days are far behind me and math was not my strong point. So maybe one of our member engineers would like to take a poke at it?


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

Being that that the AB must be above 1100 degrees to light up and the flue pipe is directly above the AB would not the flue pipe be pretty hot when the AB is operating especially when most of the AB area is insulated with that refractory material and only the very top is exposed to the stove steel just under the flue pipe opening


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## N/A N/A (Oct 21, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Being that that the AB must be above 1100 degrees to light up and the flue pipe is directly above the AB would not the flue pipe be pretty hot when the AB is operating especially when most of the AB area is insulated with that refractory material and only the very top is exposed to the stove steel just under the flue pipe opening



Not exactly sure what your asking??? If you look at the TL 300 the pipe is split 50/50 darn close with the re burn package and the fire box. Just depends on what position the damper is in.  But dont get it twisted, its still hot ether way. But in all seriousness, 1100 degrees is not really all that hot. With a normal fire in the fire box it is not unreasonable to think that areas in the fire box are 1100 degrees.


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## MishMouse (Oct 21, 2008)

Agreed 600 is warmer then 500, but when it is at 600 most of your heat is going up the flue.
Also I wonder what the temp is over the after burn chamber when it is active.
Since it magnifies the temp to re-burn the smoke, it has to be allot hotter inside then what is actually flowing up the flue when running it without the after burn engaged.

Did you try the test and feel the top of the stove before and after?

I wonder does anyone who have a TL-300 or an Oakwood for that matter have one of those digital light thermometers?
I would like to find out what are the actual temps going on when you put it into after burn, like inside the stove itself, stove front etc..
That would tell the real story.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 21, 2008)

As per the flue pipe temp above the AB Im trying to come up with a formula to tell if the AB is lit up since you cant really see whats going on with a full load of wood in the stove. Im thinking that the stove temp may go down a little but the flue pipe temp should go up  with the afterburner makng extremely hot fire out of the exhaust gas, thats why they need all that refractory material in there in the lower half of the AB and only near the flue pipe exit is there any bare steel to siphon some heat off the flue gas.


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## branchburner (Oct 22, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> As per the flue pipe temp above the AB Im trying to come up with a formula to tell if the AB is lit up since you cant really see whats going on with a full load of wood in the stove. Im thinking that the stove temp may go down a little but the flue pipe temp should go up  with the afterburner makng extremely hot fire out of the exhaust gas, thats why they need all that refractory material in there in the lower half of the AB and only near the flue pipe exit is there any bare steel to siphon some heat off the flue gas.



Not sure if the cast Oakwood and the steel TL300 behave exactly the same, but I think you're on to something here. If the AB kicks in, I agree: I think you should see your stovetop temp drop and your flue temp rise. 
One way to find out - I'm picking up a second thermometer tomorrow!
It was one of the first things I thought of when I got the thing cranking - man, I must be losing a few BTUs w/ the afterburn right in the back by the flue collar. Makes a good case for not having this stove set back in the fireplace like mine is.


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## begreen (Oct 22, 2008)

Maybe so, keep us posted. If the stove is efficiently designed I would expect the opposite. That is, I'd want the heat exchange to be optimized so that when the AB kicks in, the stove starts radiating more heat and the flue temp drops. But perhaps that is not the case here.


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## branchburner (Oct 22, 2008)

That's what I'd want, too... it's possible it just *seems* the flue is warmer because so much heat is getting kicked off the back of the stove. We'll see what the numbers say.


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 22, 2008)

I think that when the AB is activated the stove temp does drop alittle!in my case it seems to be the case.The afterburner was designed to burn wood clean!(not to increase the stove top temp).The big heat up with the AB running will be in the AB chamber itself with alot of that heat going up the flue.


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## cyclone (Oct 22, 2008)

So if you are saying alot of the heat is going up the stove pipe and to the flue; will the blower help pull more heat before it goes up the stove pipe than no blower.  Is it an advatage to have a blower on these stoves.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2008)

The area directly above the AB just under the flue exit is bare steel with an warm air channel leading out the top front of the stove, (TL-300)whether you have a blower(and i do have one) or not the room air will come in the bottom and out the top front of the stove just in behind the top load door,the air also circulates around the thick flue collar before it blows out over top of the top load door, i think most of the additional heat that is produced in the AB is radiated into the room, it seem that when the AB is engaged the whole burning process slows down , but the stove still produces a lot of heat due the the extra BTU,s now produced by the burning flue gas. Im going to get anadditional temp gauge and put one on the tp load door and one on the flue pipe just above the stove just to see the effect of the various burning stages.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 22, 2008)

Does anyone know how much creosote in the chimney is enough to start a chimney fire?  I have some build-up from the last load of wood that burned overnight and im sure the AB was not lit up as in the morning the whole inside of the stove was tarred up as was the flue pipe and the chimney bottom. IT was lust one load of wood though so i don,t think thats enough to cause a Chimney fire.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 23, 2008)

stanleyjohn said:
			
		

> I think that when the AB is activated the stove temp does drop alittle!in my case it seems to be the case.The afterburner was designed to burn wood clean!(not to increase the stove top temp).The big heat up with the AB running will be in the AB chamber itself with alot of that heat going up the flue.



Could not have said it better myself. Yes it may burn hotter in the AB but it still will not produce the amount of BTUs the fire box will with a load of wood burning full throttle.


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## branchburner (Oct 23, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> stanleyjohn said:
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Well, I guess I'm agreeing that more heat may be going up the flue since it is nearer to the AB. But I don't think you get fewer BTUs w/ the AB engaged. You should get more, cause you're burning smoke. Let me be clear, I'm talking about BTUs per pound of wood, not per hour. I have no doubt you can get more heat in an hour burning full throttle, but I think that's because you are going through more wood.
My stove top drops about 100 degrees when I start to burn smoke. I bring her to 650, make sure I have some coals, engage AB, then cruise at 550. Even though the stovetop temp drops, the back of the stove is now kicking wicked heat, and the burn rate of my splits is slower.
Now, I am running an Oakwood, not a tl300, so there may be a difference in that alone. When I get some time I'll write down some temps and get a little more scientific about it.


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## uptrapper (Oct 23, 2008)

Here is my totally unscientific opinion, keep in mind that this is the first year I am burning a wood stove so please correct me if I'm wrong.  I care about how warm my house is not how much heat goes out the pipe or how hot the stove is(to a certin extent, don't want smoke rolling out the chimney).  If I put a half load of wood in my stove on a 20 degree night (thats as cold as it has gotten hear this year so far) and don't use the ab the fire will be out in the morning with very few coals left, the house will be about 65 in the morning.  If I use the AB and aprox the same amount of wood filling the stove half full the house will be 72 in the morning and lots of coals left.  Looking at those facts I would have to say my stove puts out more BTU's/ hour with the ab on.  My stove pipe temps drop more than the stove top after putting it in ab, which would lead me to belive less heat is going up the pipe.  Further more I sit right in front of the stove when I am getting it up to temp, and about 5 seconds after the bypass damper is closed I get a very noticable increase in temp on my face.  The TL-300 is my first stove ever so I don't have any expirence with anything else and am still trying to figure out the perfect way to burn but its pretty easy for me to see that if I run the ab I get more heat for the same amount of wood.  

BTW I want to thank everyone for posting on this tread I have enjoyed reading all the posts and hope it keeps going all winter.

Mike


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## branchburner (Oct 23, 2008)

uptrapper said:
			
		

> Looking at those facts I would have to say my stove puts out more BTU's/ hour with the ab on.  My stove pipe temps drop more than the stove top after putting it in ab, which would lead me to belive less heat is going up the pipe.  Further more I sit right in front of the stove when I am getting it up to temp, and about 5 seconds after the bypass damper is closed I get a very noticable increase in temp on my face.



Well said! Makes perfect sense - I think when I feel that extra heat it seems to be coming from the flue because of its proximity to the AB. I was going to buy another thermometer to put on the flue and compare to my stovetop temps. It's taken me over 24 hours to realize it might be possible to simply pickup the one I have and move it the necessary 18 inches. Excuse me while I go hit myself in the forehead with my maul.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 23, 2008)

Im sure most of the heat from the AB is transfered to the room as the air channel in the back of the stove that exits out the top of the stove blowing forward surrounds the AB chamber. While most of the BOttom part of the AB is insulated refractoy material to contain the High temps. the top half is bare steel, the blower pushes air through this air channel so i would say the blower is more effective when the AB is engaged than otherwise.


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## branchburner (Oct 23, 2008)

Figured out what was going on as far as my perceived flue temp:
1. damper open, full air to start fire and build heat
2. damper open, low air to slow fire and build coals 
3. damper closed, full air to engage AB
4. damper closed, low air to extend burn

When I closed the damper on step 3, I was getting a small (very small, and very brief) increase in flue temp since I was jacking the air. That would drop a bit even before step 4, and when I pulled back all the way on primary air the flue temp dropped like a rock.
Efficiency delivered as promised.

Damn, I love this stove.


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## branchburner (Oct 23, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Im sure most of the heat from the AB is transfered to the room as the air channel in the back of the stove that exits out the top of the stove blowing forward surrounds the AB chamber. While most of the BOttom part of the AB is insulated refractoy material to contain the High temps. the top half is bare steel, the blower pushes air through this air channel so i would say the blower is more effective when the AB is engaged than otherwise.



Agreed. I don't have a blower but would recommend it for the rear AB models, especially for a hearth stove set up like mine.


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 23, 2008)

Ok another theroy while looking at my stove operation pic in the manual!.there seems to be a air flow chamber that rides from the back of the stove to the top then to the front.When the ab is not being used then alot of the heat is building in the main stove area which heats up the stove top pretty good.When the AB is activated then heat is then drawn down thru the back into the AB chamber causing less heat in main stove area!also this extra burst of heat in the back chamber from the AB is carried from the back to the front by the air flow chamber that causes you to feel extra heat.This is why i feel more heat when the AB is activated and see the stove top temp drop a bit.


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## cyclone (Oct 24, 2008)

I have been doing alot of the steps that have been taken by many of individuals with the TL 300 and similar stoves.  I have the TL 300 and noticed when I engage my stove into after burn (nice bed of coals, stove top five hundred)  The stove top drops and cruises at 375 for the length of its burn . It also seems what also works for me is the air intake at the second notch. What has been happening though, when the After burner is engaged and I have the long burns the bottom part of the class blackens.

Is this because of the heats being drawn towards the back and less heat by the Glass???


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 24, 2008)

I also have noticed that my afterburner runs very well with stove top temps around 350 deg.My door glass does get some brownish tint mainly on the bottom sides.This may be because of the low stove temp.I did get the stove hotter later when i put in a few more splits to a peak in the high 500s..So it seems to me that the afterburner will run fine with temps in the 300s!this suits me fine because the stove heat output is plentyful with the fan running.I have noticed that when a good amount of the wood goes into the coal stage then the afterburn shuts down.At this stage of the burn its likely not needed anymore because there is very little smoke left to burn.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 25, 2008)

Does anyone know if a wood stove with an AB such as the  harman TL-300 is the same tech as those wood gasification boilers? The boilers that i have read about also burn the off gasses and smoke that comes off the wood at high temperature


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## smokey beaver (Oct 25, 2008)

Hey folks new to forum and stove tl300, quick question when you guys speak of starting reburn up does that mean closing damper?  thks in advance!


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 25, 2008)

Welcome!! Im guessing that this is a new stove that you got!Before you activate the afterburn there our a few things to do. 
1-Built a good fire with the stove damper open and the air control lever out.(stove fan off if it has one) 
2-When a deep hot coal bed is formed (2 inches) then close the damper and you should hear a sound of air being sucked in the back of the stove!Also no smoke exiting the house.stove should be hot enough to run fan at this point.Afterburn is running now. 
3-Close the air flow control in steps to a point where you stop!depends on your draft.If you close it too much with not too much draft the afterburn will end. 
4-During the coal stage your afterburn will cut off!but thats ok since there is very little more smoke to burn. 

Remember to read the manual and there are other harman users out here that can help!
Enjoy your stove!I have the TL200 exeption wood insert oad love it! Take care! stan


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 25, 2008)

stanleyjohn said:
			
		

> I also have noticed that my afterburner runs very well with stove top temps around 350 deg.My door glass does get some brownish tint mainly on the bottom sides.This may be because of the low stove temp.I did get the stove hotter later when i put in a few more splits to a peak in the high 500s..So it seems to me that the afterburner will run fine with temps in the 300s!this suits me fine because the stove heat output is plentyful with the fan running.I have noticed that when a good amount of the wood goes into the coal stage then the afterburn shuts down.At this stage of the burn its likely not needed anymore because there is very little smoke left to burn.



How do you know when your AB shuts down? can you see it burning or is it just that you do not hear the rushing air sound.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 25, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> stanleyjohn said:
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Sometimes I can hear my AB operating and sometimes I cant. So I do not completely rely on that alone to tell if it stalled or is even operating. I pay attention to the stove temps at the connector pipe and stove top. And a quick check of the top of the chimney outside will tell the tail. And if you do have a view of the AB chamber opening you can see if it is operating. Sometimes the wood will block the view.


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## stanleyjohn (Oct 25, 2008)

On my TL200 i can see the afterburner in action thru a window in the afterburner chamber.It has been running very well so far!only stoping when there are more coals than wood to burn.I havent piled in the wood so far! i guess when i do i will not be able to see the afterburn in action because of the wood blocking the view.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 26, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> trump said:
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What are your Flue pipe temps when at various stages of startup and after AB is started? I only did a few fires so far ,Im waiting for colder weather so I don.t have to use the lowest setting all the time. My Coal stoker is good when only a litttle heat is needed and it does my hot water too. I know on my last full load of wood  the AB did not light as it creosoted up the stove and flue pipe and chimney pretty bad.Im sure i engaged the AB way too soon.So when temps get 40 day and 25-30 night ill give it another try and as i can rarely see the AF (Ill try to stack the wood as to make a tunnel to observe)im going to go by stovetop and flue temps as when to engage the AF.  Ill try 550  stove top so at thet temp what would the Flue pipe read before and after engaging the AB?


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## N/A N/A (Oct 26, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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I will light the stove up and often times let it get hot enough for the pipe probe thermometer to read around 1000. It was installed 18 inches up from the top of the stove. The stove top will read around 600. After a good coal bed and the AB is put into action those above temps will usually drop to and around 500 and 350 respectfully with the AB operating. Its not that way all the time, depending on outside weather conditions and the wood used I have had 900 and 550 temps on lowest air setting.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 27, 2008)

Firefighter
Isnt 1000 degrees in the stove pipe the Cherry red Zone?  I have those magnetic temp gauges, so i expect that it would be a little lower than 1000 with those.  I think the Coals is what give the AB the 1100 minumum temp to light off, after it lights off i suspect that it makes enough of its own heat to keep burning. THe owners manual does not say anything about the AB except it does cover the start up procedure, bed of coals,hot fire ect.


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## MishMouse (Oct 27, 2008)

Actually I think 1,000 internal flue temp is a good temp for engaging the ab.


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## N/A N/A (Oct 27, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Firefighter
> Isnt 1000 degrees in the stove pipe the Cherry red Zone? I have those magnetic temp gauges, so i expect that it would be a little lower than 1000 with those. I think the Coals is what give the AB the 1100 minumum temp to light off, after it lights off i suspect that it makes enough of its own heat to keep burning. THe owners manual does not say anything about the AB except it does cover the start up procedure, bed of coals,hot fire ect.




Not quite the cherry red zone but getting up there. I have had it up over 1300 once by accident for a very short period of time. Will try and not do that again. 1000 is about the limit I would go. I also would not attempt to maintain a 1000 temp for any serious amount of time although a properly installed chimney should have no problem handling it for a reasonable time. A good hot stack is key for good draft and control on any creosote.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 28, 2008)

What a difference in stack temp between a coal stoker and a wood stove. My stoker runs at  225 Degrees right where the stack pipe begins during high fire and about 135 degrees when idling or low fire.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 30, 2008)

Im going to have to get a different Temp gauge if i am deling with Temps over 800 degrees as The gauge i have now looses its magnetism over 800 degrees and has to be tied to the pipe.


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## MishMouse (Oct 30, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Im going to have to get a different Temp gauge if i am deling with Temps over 800 degrees as The gauge i have now looses its magnetism over 800 degrees and has to be tied to the pipe.



Yours loses magnetism over 800?
I hope when you are saying 800 that's internal flue temp, not external.  :gulp: 
External on double wall would be more around the 600 range.


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## Seasoned Oak (Oct 31, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> trump said:
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Where did you get your Internal Temp gauge? Ill check what  lowes has in stock and the farm supply store. But all i have so far is the magnetic wood stove gauge that only goes up to 750 and loses its magnetism if exposed to 800 or higher.I guess its good for the top loading door for the lower temps.


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## MishMouse (Oct 31, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Where did you get your Internal Temp gauge? Ill check what  lowes has in stock and the farm supply store. But all i have so far is the magnetic wood stove gauge that only goes up to 750 and loses its magnetism if exposed to 800 or higher.I guess its good for the top loading door for the lower temps.



Do a google on "wood stove probe thermeters" and there are a few out there to choose from.
As for 800 degree temps, I would highly discourage you getting your stove or your external double wall pipe to that temp. You could/will damage your ab chamber, warp the stove, cause the fire brick to crumble, cause gasket failure etc..
As for internal flue temps, you are looking for 1-1.3K for your high.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 1, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> trump said:
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I only have single wall pipe on the stove, so i guess its not hard to see 800 at the flue pipe when you have 550-600 on the loading door.


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## N/A N/A (Nov 1, 2008)

After everything is warmed up, I get 600 temps stove top when the pipe was reading 1000 degrees. And usually when I was at 500 stove top, I am usually around 800 pipe.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 3, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> After everything is warmed up, I get 600 temps stove top when the pipe was reading 1000 degrees. And usually when I was at 500 stove top, I am usually around 800 pipe.




On my rutland wood stove gauge anything over 550 is in the OVERFIRE range, Under 250 is in the creosote range. And thats on the stove pipe. Do these reading reflect older wood stove temps? In the Harman manual they stress over and over not to run the stove too hot as to avoid damage to the stove. But they do not give specific temps as to what not to exceed.


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## MishMouse (Nov 3, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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The 1K temp is internal flue temp not external pipe temps.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 3, 2008)

Firefighter
Mishmouse
WHat did you guys pay for your TL-300 stoves, I got 2 quotes of $2200 ,but both said no more stoves till 2009. Last quote was $1950 and the guy had 3 available.


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## uptrapper (Nov 3, 2008)

I paid $1780 otd (tax, delivery and the ss cooking grill) I bought it at a spring builders show from our local dealer, supposed to be a better price than normal.  They also let me store it there until fall when I put it in.  Mine is nothing fancy just the plain jane black.  I called to order an extra ash pan and they said I should be gald I bought in the spring as the price went up $600 and not available until summer 2009.  I didn't shop around at all and am not sure if that was the best price or not but I wanted to be able to call someone local if I had questions, so far I have been happy with their service.

Mike


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## N/A N/A (Nov 3, 2008)

I was around $1700. Got it early summer. I think it was a great deal. They went up to $2200 very fast and now I see them for $2400.


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## uptrapper (Nov 4, 2008)

Wondering if you guys are seeing this?  My glass stays pretty clean, sometimes when I start it up I get a temp haze on the glass but when the fire heats up it always burns right off.  the thing I do notice is that the glass right behind the metal bars that keep the logs away from the glass need to be cleaned about every week if I'm burning at least every day.  The glass isn't dirty enough so you can't see through it but just dirty enough so you notice it.  I also notice the haze on the glass is in the same shape as the bars.  I assume its because metal sheilds the glass from heat in these locations although the metal bars at times will look like they just start to glow if all the lights are out in the room and the damper is closed, might just look like it because of the hot coals.  Anyway does anyone else notice this?

Thanks

Mike


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 4, 2008)

THis is a bit off topic but when i run the wood stove (and all summer long) my stoker boiler sits idle and this year i seem to have gotten a lot of rust scaling off (inside)when i started up for the fall, does any one have any tips for keeping idle boilers from rusting over the summer when they are shut down.


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## MishMouse (Nov 4, 2008)

I paid 2K for mine in Feb 08, just plain black.
Other dealers in the area wanted to sell it to me for 2.4K.
Was told the stove went up by $400 this year.

..........................................

Yes, where the airidones is where I get most of my buildup.
I normally burn that off when I kick the stove on high to get her back up to temp.


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## N/A N/A (Nov 4, 2008)

uptrapper said:
			
		

> Wondering if you guys are seeing this?  My glass stays pretty clean, sometimes when I start it up I get a temp haze on the glass but when the fire heats up it always burns right off.  the thing I do notice is that the glass right behind the metal bars that keep the logs away from the glass need to be cleaned about every week if I'm burning at least every day.  The glass isn't dirty enough so you can't see through it but just dirty enough so you notice it.  I also notice the haze on the glass is in the same shape as the bars.  I assume its because metal sheilds the glass from heat in these locations although the metal bars at times will look like they just start to glow if all the lights are out in the room and the damper is closed, might just look like it because of the hot coals.  Anyway does anyone else notice this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike




I get exactly the same thing. But I have not noticed the andirons glowing red.


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## cyclone (Nov 5, 2008)

Two weeks ago my one was glowing red!!


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## MishMouse (Nov 7, 2008)

Last night when I got home it was 38 outside, rain and wind.

I fired up the stove, got a good coal bed and cooked up a batch of chicken thighs.
While I was cooking them, since I already had a very hot fire I had to turn the air all the way down or it would have burnt the chicken. With the air on low I closed the lid, and since with the grill stops the lid from completely sealing it was drawing air in through the space.  

The result .. convection cooking


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 8, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> Last night when I got home it was 38 outside, rain and wind.
> 
> I fired up the stove, got a good coal bed and cooked up a batch of chicken thighs.
> While I was cooking them, since I already had a very hot fire I had to turn the air all the way down or it would have burnt the chicken. With the air on low I closed the lid, and since with the grill stops the lid from completely sealing it was drawing air in through the space.
> ...


------------
How were the thighs?  My grill has a very thin tabs that hold it in place and my door seems to close all the way with the grill in place, the manual does not say wether you should have the door open or closed during cooking, but i was assuming by the way they made the grill to fit in under the door it would be closed. Has sanyone used the fireplace screen yet. Im told that you must leave the vent door open (no afterburner) during this operation to avoid smoke spillage and pull combustion air in through the screen.
IM not getting much burn time  cuz Its too damn warm out yet.


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## MishMouse (Nov 9, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> -
> How were the thighs? My grill has a very thin tabs that hold it in place and my door seems to close all the way with the grill in place, the manual does not say wether you should have the door open or closed during cooking, but i was assuming by the way they made the grill to fit in under the door it would be closed. Has sanyone used the fireplace screen yet. Im told that you must leave the vent door open (no afterburner) during this operation to avoid smoke spillage and pull combustion air in through the screen.
> IM not getting much burn time cuz Its too damn warm out yet.



The thighs were great, they probably would have been better if I didn't try to do low fat cooking by removing the skin and the temp wasn't above 500 when I put them on. As for it closing I noticed that it does close but it is not get a complete air tight seal so air does get pulled in from the room especially if you close the primary air down. Today I fried up some chrizo sausage and portabella mushrooms.

If you want some cold weather you can borrow some from me, today we had a high of around 28 with light snow and a 20-30 mph wind. Funny thing come late Feb I will look at the 20's as short sleeve and light jacket weather. :gulp: 
Last year we had lows below -40, I could tell the coldest day the thermometer stopped working when it hit -40.

I haven't bought the screen yet, but yes you would have to run it with the damper open.


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## BJ64 (Nov 9, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> THis is a bit off topic but when i run the wood stove (and all summer long) my stoker boiler sits idle and this year i seem to have gotten a lot of rust scaling off (inside)when i started up for the fall, does any one have any tips for keeping idle boilers from rusting over the summer when they are shut down.



How much sulfite are you using in the boiler?

I work with two small Cleaver Brooks fire tube package boilers that we operate during the winter.  We shut them down for the summer wet with about 200 ppm sulfite.  That does a fine job of keeping the rust from happening.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 10, 2008)

BJ64 said:
			
		

> trump said:
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THe rust is on the exterior of the water jacket inside the burn chamber,not inside where the water is, THe steel area surrounding the fire where the heat is transferred through the steel to the water. Someone said to put a 100 watt light bulb in there when not using the boiler to keep it warm and dry. I know that hi humidity will cause it to rust, so i would think that some type of fan blowing through there would be of more use than a 100 watt light bulb. I don,t think warm and humid is any better than cold and humid.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 11, 2008)

Does anyone know if those Eko boilers they advertise on this site actually turn the wood to gas and then burn the gas ,or do they just burn the wood and also the smoke like a TL-300 or a Cat Wood Stove does.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 14, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> Last night when I got home it was 38 outside, rain and wind.
> 
> I fired up the stove, got a good coal bed and cooked up a batch of chicken thighs.
> While I was cooking them, since I already had a very hot fire I had to turn the air all the way down or it would have burnt the chicken. With the air on low I closed the lid, and since with the grill stops the lid from completely sealing it was drawing air in through the space.
> ...



DO you know if hardwood loses any of its BTUs if it sets too long? Have a few cords  4-5 Years old


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## branchburner (Nov 14, 2008)

Sure, if it starts to rot or get punky. Wet wood will get lighter as it dries, and dry wood will get lighter as it... well, whatever it does to turn into that flaky, mushy, powdery junk (look up dry rot). But that should not happen if the wood is kept dry.


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## uptrapper (Nov 16, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> trump said:
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I totally know what you mean, I once made the mistake of buying a thermometer from walmart, darn thing won't show anything below -20.  Thats the point when you really need to know the temp.  A few winters ago my wife went out to start her car and said wow its really warm out today what the temp, I looked and it was -20, that how you know you live in the north.

Mike


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## BJ64 (Nov 16, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if those Eko boilers they advertise on this site actually turn the wood to gas and then burn the gas ,or do they just burn the wood and also the smoke like a TL-300 or a Cat Wood Stove does.



They use the same concept as your stove.  They burn the wood and the combustion gases.  From what I gather from their website, I believe they have some degree of forced combustion air.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 17, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> uptrapper said:
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FF29   WHere did you get your internal flue pipe gauge? whats the brand name?  and what did it cost? I can,t find a good gauge anywhere,not even at the farm supply store where thay sell wood stoves.


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## N/A N/A (Nov 17, 2008)

I ordered it through the same shop I bought my stove at. Its called Chip's Stove shop in Apollo Pa. (724) 567-7876. The thermometer is made by Condar and I think it was around $25.


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## Seasoned Oak (Nov 20, 2008)

Does anyone here have any experience with CAT stoves and what can you say comparing them to the TL-300. The obvious diff is they light off at 500 Degrees,


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## N/A N/A (Nov 20, 2008)

I have never owned a cat stove, but the idea of possibly having to replace the cat after a couple to a few years use was enough to make me stay away from them. It would not be bad but the prices for a cat can be expensive.


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## branchburner (Nov 20, 2008)

The cats may be expensive, but your Harman combustion package will run $300, so take good care of it. It seems a cat stove needs a new combustor somewhere between every year and every ten years depending on who you talk to and how they run their stove, but a lot of people seem to get 3-5 years out of them. I don't know if anyone has a good handle on the lifespan of a Harman combustion package - I would hope 10 years (as long as you don't overfire or physically damage it).


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 4, 2008)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> I have never owned a cat stove, but the idea of possibly having to replace the cat after a couple to a few years use was enough to make me stay away from them. It would not be bad but the prices for a cat can be expensive.



Does anyone know of a way to heat water with these wood stoves.


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## uptrapper (Dec 5, 2008)

I have thought about trying to heat water with my stove too, but never came up with anything that would be safe enough to even think about using.  I would be also be intrested in a safe idea someone had.

Mike


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## MishMouse (Dec 5, 2008)

trump said:
			
		

> Does anyone know of a way to heat water with these wood stoves.



I would start here:  http://www.woodheat.org/dhw/dhw.htm
There is some very interesting articles at this site.


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## LisaP (Dec 8, 2008)

We finally got our stove installed last week!  We are 3 days into burning and still are not sure if we got the afterburn going.  We get the stove flue temp to about 600, have a thick coal bed and then switch to AB.  Our temp then drops to 300 or below and it seems like the fire has gone out!?  Have not heard any loud sounds.  When AB is working is all the flame gone?


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## MishMouse (Dec 8, 2008)

LisaP said:
			
		

> We finally got our stove installed last week! We are 3 days into burning and still are not sure if we got the afterburn going. We get the stove flue temp to about 600, have a thick coal bed and then switch to AB. Our temp then drops to 300 or below and it seems like the fire has gone out!? Have not heard any loud sounds. When AB is working is all the flame gone?



First a few questions:
1) When you say 600 is that external double wall temp or internal?
The internal flue temp should be around 1K when you start the AB or around 500 stove top.
2) When you say 300, what temp are our measuring?
3) How seasoned is your wood?

Ways to determine if AB is working properly.
1) No smoke from chimney
2) Stove top temps should stay above 400 when on level 1 and should hover around 450
3) An occasional flame or a rolling flame on the top of the wood
4) The amount of heat expelled when you put it in AB. 
Before if you hold your bare hand over the top back of the stove you should feel heat but not enough to be unpleasant.
If you have it in AB you hold your hand over the top back and it will get uncomfortable quite quickly. 
5) You may also hear a rushing sound when you first put it into AB sorta like a jet.

If none of these are happen or if you had a stall.
Just fire the stove back up to 1K internal flue or around 500 stove top and try again.

Since this stove is a downdraft stove it take a little while to get used to, but once you figure it out you will be able to get 10+ hour burns (stove top above 400) on level 1.

PS: On Saturday it was -10 outside, I was downstairs grilling a T bone steak on the grill over the woodfire and the temps in the basement were above 80.


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## LisaP (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for the input- I think it is going into afterburn, but it is hovering around 300 (internal therm. on the double wall chimney).  I see a red glow in back of stove.  I will try to get the temp up to 1000 before switching into ab, that may be our problem.  We are getting the grill next week, can't wait to try it out.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 9, 2008)

LisaP said:
			
		

> Thanks for the input- I think it is going into afterburn, but it is hovering around 300 (internal therm. on the double wall chimney).  I see a red glow in back of stove.  I will try to get the temp up to 1000 before switching into ab, that may be our problem.  We are getting the grill next week, can't wait to try it out.



Make sure your AB is fireing or you may convert your whole load of wood to creosote.  i did this once and although the stove  burned for 25 hours on one load of wood, i had a lot  of creosote inside the stove , in the flue pipe , in the chimney. wood stoves like to burn hot, you need 1100 degrees at the AB chamber to light off the smoke, usually translates into 400+ stovetop temp. draft is importamt too in maintaining AF fire. You need good draft. A hot fire usually produces good draft. The colder it is outside the better your draft will be.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 16, 2008)

I made a wood stove out of an old oil tank , to heat up a large area and it throws a tremendous amount of heat with just a few pieces of wood in it, i guess its all that Sq feet of sheet metal is a good heat exchanger, the stove pipe will glow red if i let it get tto much air.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 31, 2008)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> LisaP said:
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WHen you say 10 hour burn on level 1, do you mean the air adjustment all the way to the left as in minimum air. i got 27 hour burns already on  the air at that position.


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## cyclone (Dec 31, 2008)

I have been part of these discussions concerning the TL 300 since I own one.  Questions have always been when do I know it is in after-burn?  All mentioned is true.  What I simply do is wait 15-30 minutes when i have a the bypass shut and air down i simply look at the chimney for smoke or no smoke.  No smoke all is well!!


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## N/A N/A (Dec 31, 2008)

Thats interesting that you bring that up Murry. Now that I have had some good cold weather and some time to really play with this stove, I have found that it will actually go in and out of afterburn throughout the burn cycle. I have found that sometimes I will load it up as normal get the after burn going and in about a half hour time it will stall. Then if I let it go, in time it will kick itself back in and continue to burn as normal. It may do this several times a cycle. The times I gave are not solid, it may burn in afterburn for an hour or two before going out. But my stove will go in and out of afterburn on its own.


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## cyclone (Jan 4, 2009)

Do you check your chimney to see if smoke is coming out?

Being a first year wood burner I may be looking into all of this to much, but safety is first.

I do check my chimney and when smoke is coming out it tells me it's not burning clean or the stove is not in the after burn.

I was just at one of the local stove shops and observed their burning tecniques.  It amazed me of how simple thier stove operated.  It was a down draft stove.

My observations:  No smoke coming from the chimney.  Flames in the firebox.  Reload the man just threw the log in and shut the by pass, again no smoke from the chimney.  They were busy so I could not ask questions.  Stove temp was around 475.

This only made me think more!!


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## N/A N/A (Jan 5, 2009)

Murry, when I first started burning this stove I did look to see if smoke was coming out. Now, honestly, I can tell by the sound of the stove whither it is in afterburn. But on top of that, I still get up on the roof every month and a half or so and pop the cap off for a look. So far this stove is far better than my old englander 12. This time last year I would have cleaned the chimney twice. I have not cleaned it yet this year.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 8, 2009)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> Thats interesting that you bring that up Murry. Now that I have had some good cold weather and some time to really play with this stove, I have found that it will actually go in and out of afterburn throughout the burn cycle. I have found that sometimes I will load it up as normal get the after burn going and in about a half hour time it will stall. Then if I let it go, in time it will kick itself back in and continue to burn as normal. It may do this several times a cycle. The times I gave are not solid, it may burn in afterburn for an hour or two before going out. But my stove will go in and out of afterburn on its own.



Iv had time to get back to my TL-300 and the first thing i did was build a little tunnel out of firewood so i have a clear view of the AF chamber. Now that i can see whats going on it is much simpler to get a good afterburn. WHen there is a lot of new wood in the stove(hence a lot of smoke) each of the AF air holes looks like a little blow torch with a flame shooting out about 2-3 inches. later when the wood burns down
some, the whole AF glows cherry red even on the lowest air setting.And the lower air setting seems to increase AF activity However i still have smoke (or perhaps its steam) coming from my chimney even when i am positive my AF is lit. If i try to engage the AF too soon it will start only for a minute or 2 and then go out. also i get no sound (that i can hear) when in AF. But then again the fan might be drowning out the sound. Either way this is the way to burn wood ,any other way except a cat stove is a waste of wood and all the BTU,s that it can produce.


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## MishMouse (Jan 8, 2009)

I have some new things to report myself.
Last week we had a register installed with a fire vent. 
It increased the heat in the upstairs by around 2 degrees.
So basement is running at around 82 and upstairs is at 74.

Just got the propain bill for 6 weeks of use, used only 30 gallons.
During this timeframe we had about 7-10 days that got above 0 for highs the rest were below 0 for highs.
Bill came to around 85 dollars with fees.
Last year at this time before Harman for the same period we used around 150 gallons.
At this rate stove will pay for itself in around 2 years.
To pay for stove plus installation will take around 4-5 years.
Add to that the benefit of the workout that you get cutting, splitting, and moving the wood to various locations, I come out ahead all the way around.


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## N/A N/A (Jan 8, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

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I would say that 90% of the time I get little to no sound at all from the afterburn. The only time I get the "jet engine" sound is when my coal bed is at least half the way up the afterburn throat in the back of the fire box. Sometimes it scares the $hit out of me when I kick it in lol. The one thing that is a for sure with my stove is I get a ticking sound (like what any stove makes when its heating or cooling) coming from my stove. But I can tell from the fast frequency and pitch of the ticking sound that the afterburn is working. And sure enough if I would look, no smoke. So after a point in time I would not waste my time and freeze myself to look. And to this point I must be doing something correct due to the lack of creosote and the awesome wood lasting potential I can reach.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 8, 2009)

It seems my AB goes out after a few hours on the lowest setting ,and the stovetop temp drops to 300 even with a full load of wood or at least the visible flame goes out ,so im trying it with the fan shut off for overnight burn to keep the AF chamber hotter, ill try various air settings until i can keep AF on all night.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 8, 2009)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> trump said:
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I finally heard the AB sound your talking about after turning the fan off, sounds like air rushing in the back of the stove, but disapears after a few minutes, and reappears when you turn the air setting back up.


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## LisaP (Jan 8, 2009)

trump- I'm curious to know how it does overnight with vs. without your blower on.  We did not get the blower, but have considered it.  We are trying to move the hot air out of are living room and into back bedrooms.  We are leaning towards installing a ceiling fan instead.  I have also noticed we still have smoke coming out of the pipe when I'm certain it is in AB.


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## cyclone (Jan 8, 2009)

Before I posted no smoke equals afterburn.

Yesterday I had time to play with the stove and now convinced I had the fire in afterburn and chimney was smoking some.

All indications that the stove was in AB.  Steady temps, ocassional flames, dancing flames??


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## N/A N/A (Jan 8, 2009)

I think under some conditions, depending on quantity and type of wood used that you may only be able to get a few hours use out of the afterburn. Depending, any point after that what is left in the fire box is really mostly coals. I have had times that when I would load it up with pine or a wood like silver maple in only a couple hours time I only have coals. But dont get it twisted, this coal bed may be half the depth of the fire box or often times more. And the stove is still putting out plenty of heat and will continue to do so for several hours more. The only difference in the coals from fresh splits is that what is left in the fire box does not have the ability to produce the amount of smoke needed to keep the afterburn going. Its almost like the afterburn has the ability to suck the smoke producing capability out of the wood. So once the wood reaches this point in the burn cycle, there is little chance of it producing enough smoke to cause any kind of creosote issues. So I personally, at this point, dont panic if the afterburn is not working. I ether add fresh wood on top of the coal bed (and this is when I almost always get that very loud and defined jet engine sound) and kick it back into afterburn or I will just let it continue on the burn cycle.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 9, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> trump- I'm curious to know how it does overnight with vs. without your blower on.  We did not get the blower, but have considered it.  We are trying to move the hot air out of are living room and into back bedrooms.  We are leaning towards installing a ceiling fan instead.  I have also noticed we still have smoke coming out of the pipe when I'm certain it is in AB.



I would definitly go with the fan, as it pushes air up the back of the stove around the AF and out across the front of the stove so when you are sitting in front of the stove you can feel the hot air coming at you. Without the fan i would think you would send more heat up the chimney than is necessary, also when you have it on the highest air setting this stove makes a lot of heat and you need to get that heat into the room. I think the fan will help prevent the stove from overheating.
 I t may be smoke coming out of your chimney or it could also be steam, if it is very white its more likely steam driven out of a fresh load of wood. I getr some white smoke (or steam)while in AB mode right after i put in a fresh load of wood. But after a few minutes it disapears completly , Most importantly , no creosote and a clean chimney with this stove


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 9, 2009)

murry said:
			
		

> Before I posted no smoke equals afterburn.
> 
> Yesterday I had time to play with the stove and now convinced I had the fire in afterburn and chimney was smoking some.
> 
> All indications that the stove was in AB.  Steady temps, ocassional flames, dancing flames??



I get some white smoke (or steam) after i put in a full load of wood and i know the AF is working cuz i can see it ,but it disappears after a few minutes, the main thing is the AB means no creosote, i burn a lot of soft wood like pine and hemlock and NO creosote is just amazing to me some other wood stoves will creosote like crazy when you try to burn the wood slowly.  
HIgh air flow AB looks like little torch flames from every air hole ,low air flow and the whole thing glows cherry red.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 9, 2009)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> I think under some conditions, depending on quantity and type of wood used that you may only be able to get a few hours use out of the afterburn. Depending, any point after that what is left in the fire box is really mostly coals. I have had times that when I would load it up with pine or a wood like silver maple in only a couple hours time I only have coals. But dont get it twisted, this coal bed may be half the depth of the fire box or often times more. And the stove is still putting out plenty of heat and will continue to do so for several hours more. The only difference in the coals from fresh splits is that what is left in the fire box does not have the ability to produce the amount of smoke needed to keep the afterburn going. Its almost like the afterburn has the ability to suck the smoke producing capability out of the wood. So once the wood reaches this point in the burn cycle, there is little chance of it producing enough smoke to cause any kind of creosote issues. So I personally, at this point, dont panic if the afterburn is not working. I ether add fresh wood on top of the coal bed (and this is when I almost always get that very loud and defined jet engine sound) and kick it back into afterburn or I will just let it continue on the burn cycle.



Your theory sounds about right , there is always air entering the secondary burn behind the AB and there is no way to control it, so it seems when smoke is present you get fire , no smoke and all you get is oxegenated flue gas. sometimes i can see almost every air hole in the AB through a tunnel in the wood and when the air flow is high and with a full load of wood above they all look like little blow torches burning through the smoke, and when the air flow is low the whole thing glows cherry red , much brighter than the rest of the coals which are depending on primary air at its lowest setting.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 9, 2009)

Im having a problem keeping the AF lit on overnight burns, seems that after a few hours on the lowest air setting the stove temp(top loading door) will drop to about 250-300 and the AB goes out at this point.Then will start getting smoke and wood smell from chimney top.  Will try to use a higher air setting tonight to keep AB lit. Possible not enough draft at the lowest air setting.


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## LisaP (Jan 9, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> Im having a problem keeping the AF lit on overnight burns, seems that after a few hours on the lowest air setting the stove temp(top loading door) will drop to about 250-300 and the AB goes out at this point.Then will start getting smoke and wood smell from chimney top.  Will try to use a higher air setting tonight to keep AB lit. Possible not enough draft at the lowest air setting.



We also have the same problem.  We keep the air setting at 2, but fire is sometimes almost completely out in morning.  It is still warm in the house though, so it still does its job.  The furnace usually kicks on once in the morning, but once we reload its all good.


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## MishMouse (Jan 9, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> trump said:
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The furnace for us does kick in a couple of times during the day normally after a 6-8 hour burn and depending on the outside temp. I own a manufactured home and the insulation in it is not as good as I paid for so when the temp drop it gets a little chilly. 

As long as you have good seasoned wood and a good coal base you should be able to obtain at level 1 at least a 8-10 burn with a full load of Oak with stove top above 400. I easily obtained these temps and burn times during Oct and Nov but, that was when the temps ranged from 30 - 50 above 0, now I am only getting around 6-8 hour burns on level 2-3, though the temp outside are ranging from -30 to 5.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 9, 2009)

Tried level 2 for overnight, got a good clean burn for about 12 hours I guess i don,t have enough draft for the lowest air setting to get really clean overnight burn, uses more wood on 2 but gives more heat also, i can usually tell is the overnight burn was good by the condition on the firebox in the morning, if its sooty with patches of creosote i know my AB went out too soon, but on level 2 its nice and clean and the wood ashes are a powdery fluffy white. Also on level 2 the stovetop temp stays above 350-400.


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## N/A N/A (Jan 9, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> Tried level 2 for overnight, got a good clean burn for about 12 hours I guess i don,t have enough draft for the lowest air setting to get really clean overnight burn, uses more wood on 2 but gives more heat also, i can usually tell is the overnight burn was good by the condition on the firebox in the morning, if its sooty with patches of creosote i know my AB went out too soon, but on level 2 its nice and clean and the wood ashes are a powdery fluffy white. Also on level 2 the stovetop temp stays above 350-400.




The only time I ever put it on the first setting is when I get that super deep coal bed with a fresh load of wood on top. It seams to do fantastic on that setting.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 10, 2009)

I noticed that when i use softwood suck as pine and hemlock my stove top temp goes down as much as 100 Degrees. 
And the AB goes out quicker with soft wood than with hard wood.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 10, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> trump said:
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If you dont already have one get yourself one of those magnetic wood stove temp gauges. Its color coded for low temps (creosote  range) and overfire (above 600F) IT will tell you what your stove is doing at all times. I dont turn on the fan or kick in the AB  unless its above 400 ,thats on the top loading door. if it goes above 500-550 ill turn the fan on faster speed and cut down the air control to prevent overheating. My AB is always working above 400 and not working below 300-350.


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## uptrapper (Jan 11, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> LisaP said:
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Same with me, on 3 it runs 450-475, and on 2 it runs about 375-400 on my magnetic gauge. I have only run mine on 1 a couple of times, not sure of the temps. If it drops to 350 I know it has stalled or is going to soon, until you figure out what stove top temp your stove stalls at you have to check for smoke. I have 2 gauges and have put them side by side and both give different measurements 40 or 50ish degrees difference most of the time. I scratched marks on the second gauge so if my primary gauge fails I don't have to learn the new temps I can just look at the scratch marks. If its supposed to be above 10 I set it on 2 if its below 10 I set on 3. I've never woke up when the house was below 68, and the boiler and electric heat has not been turned on at all this year. I love the stove and would buy another in a heartbeat, but it does take some trial and error to figure out how to run it properly. If it weren't for this site and the people helping me out I'm not sure I would have gotten the hang of it.

Mike


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 11, 2009)

MishMouse said:
			
		

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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 11, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> MishMouse said:
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---------------------------------
I tried your method of checking for heat at the top of the rear heat sheild at the back of the stove, works like a charm,no AB metal is barely warm, Once AB kicks in within a short time you can not keep your hand there for more than a second or two. i also make a tunnel with the wood so i can see the AB chamber from the front glass. the is no doubt when it lights up


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 12, 2009)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

> Murry, when I first started burning this stove I did look to see if smoke was coming out. Now, honestly, I can tell by the sound of the stove whither it is in afterburn. But on top of that, I still get up on the roof every month and a half or so and pop the cap off for a look. So far this stove is far better than my old englander 12. This time last year I would have cleaned the chimney twice. I have not cleaned it yet this year.


-----------------------
Does anyone  have any problem with the AB air holes getting clogged with wood ashes, it seem some of mine are not functioning. when i can see the AB  in action some of the air holes are lit up and some are not?


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## N/A N/A (Jan 12, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> FIREFIGHTER29 said:
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I have this problem. Harman tells us in our owners book not to stick any tools back in that area. But what they also dont tell us is how to clean that area out. If I would never clean that it would be packed full of ash by now. I found a way that I clean this area out and keep those air holes open that seams to work well for me. On the bottom of the opening below the first bank of small holes is a small lip. I will run the shovel back to that to remove the ash. Then I will take my brush that came with my stove set and "dust" the remaining ash from the location of the holes. If the stove is cool, I will simply do the same thing with my gloved hand. Have not had any problems to date by doing this. If anybody else has a better idea on how to keep this area clean I am all ears. I should also state, I refuse to spend $200 on an ash vacuum to do this.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 15, 2009)

FIREFIGHTER29 said:
			
		

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---------------------------------
I tried a shop VAC ,seems to work fine, can,t see how you could damage anything with a shop vac, Im having trouble getting my stove top above 500-550 , I have a reducer on the pipe cuz my chimney opening is only 5", i wonder if this could be the problem. i might try one of those steel wood cradles they sell for fireplaces that keep the wood off the floor of the stove, i think it would be good for viewing the AB chamber and also to keep the wood out of the AB chamber opening.


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## MishMouse (Jan 15, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> I tried a shop VAC ,seems to work fine, can,t see how you could damage anything with a shop vac, Im having trouble getting my stove top above 500-550 , I have a reducer on the pipe cuz my chimney opening is only 5", i wonder if this could be the problem. i might try one of those steel wood cradles they sell for fireplaces that keep the wood off the floor of the stove, i think it would be good for viewing the AB chamber and also to keep the wood out of the AB chamber opening.



I wouldn't suggest getting a wood cradle for the following reasons:
1) you would have to get a very small one so you could fit it inside the stove
2) adding burning hot metal to the inside of a stove may cause damage to the firebrick
3) You would greatly reduce your box size

*Questions: *
How seasoned is your wood?

Why are you sending it into a 5" pipe instead of a 6" pipe?

How is your draft? 

Did the installer check your draft to ensure that it is pulling correctly?

*Suggestions*
Try using smaller splits then gradually working up to larger splits as you build a good coal base.
Since you are sending it into a smaller pipe I would clean the pipe often especially if your wood is not fully seasoned.

Actually for wood in the AB chamber, it seems to work better when you have a good coal base with some coals into the throat of the chamber.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 18, 2009)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> trump said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------------------------------------------------
I am using this stove in a house that i am remodeling to sell,as far as installation , its just connect a few stove pipes and thats it.
during the day i burn some of the old wood i tore out of the house (mostly softwood) at night i load it up with split seasoned hardwood several years old for an long overnight burn.The soft wood burns at the same temp as the hardwood but of course it burns up faster. THe inlet in the chimney is 5" ,and as i will seal it up before i sell the house im not spending the time to do it all over to 6" just for a temporary installation. I think the reason for the lower temps is the 5" inlet and there is only about 15 feet of chimney above the stove so not much draw distance. IT is working fine either way with good AB performance,and good heat output,i think ill forget the fireplace cradle cuz like you said it will just cut down on the size of the firebox, and i like to load the stove up pretty tight for overnight. THe only thing with the lower temps , i can only set the air no lower than the second notch from the left to burn overnight as the AB will stall on a lower setting. THis stove makes a lot of noise when it is heating up and cooling down,sounds like heat pipes expanding,   i guess thats normal PS Even with pine wood and 2x4 scraps there still is no smoke while in AB mode, simply amazing!


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## James04 (Jan 28, 2009)

branchburner said:
			
		

> trump said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have been away from the forum for quite some time. Therfore I have not read through this entire thread yet. So I do not know if this has been addressed. I have had my stove for a year and a half now. What I have found is that the stack temperature is the key to knowing what the AB is doing. My probe is I think 24" above the stove collar. One I get the stove up to temp and I then let the stack get up to about 1200. I then open the air full open, close the bypass and listen for the roar. If I get the roar I leave the air full open for ten min. The temp on the stack should have dropped below 1000. I then cut the air down to the half way mark and let it stay there for 10 min. IF the stack temp stays above 600 I can then continue to gradually close the air at ten min intervals. The key being to not let the stack temp drop below 500 to 600 deg. Sometimes it will continue to AB below those temps but it is a gamble. The sure thing is to maintain at least 550. I keep cutting the air until it is fully closed or if it is cold in the house on the first notch. Once the load starts burning down and there are less volatiles left in the wood the stack temp will start to drop and the stove top temp will increase until some point were the fire start to die down from all the fuel being used up.

James


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## LisaP (Jan 28, 2009)

We also let the flue temp get to 1100-1200 then switch into AB.  But we did not think we were supposed to keep the air all the way open, we put into 2 or 3 slot right away.  Maybe that is why our flue temp drops to 300 very quickly.  I will try to keep it further open for the first 10 minutes.


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## James04 (Jan 28, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> We also let the flue temp get to 1100-1200 then switch into AB.  But we did not think we were supposed to keep the air all the way open, we put into 2 or 3 slot right away.  Maybe that is why our flue temp drops to 300 very quickly.  I will try to keep it further open for the first 10 minutes.



Lisa,

I do occasionally reduce the air to half way after closing the bypass. That is If I am confident that things are going well. You will develop a feel for it over time.

One of the more important things that I have learned. Is that the dryness of the wood is very key. What you may think is dry or seasoned may not fully be ready to burn optimally. One year for oak I would say is the minimum. Better two years then covered for a month or two before use. If not covered the whole time. If I through a load of kiln dries oak in the stove I can practically close the bypass soon after the wood catches fire and reduce the air and get a nice hot AB.

I am currently forced to use wood that has not had the proper amount of time to season. What I find works best is to load the stove after a good bed is established. Then let the wood catch just a little and reduce the air down to the first or second notch. This causes the fire to kind of smolder but what happens is before the wood goes all a blaze and all of the BTU's in it goes up the chimney. The wood has enough time to get hot and evaporate the water. The moisture in the wood is what kills the AB. Only then do you open up the air to get a good blaze going before closing the bypass. In other words give the wood time in the stove before you attempt to get the stack hot enough to close the bypass. This has worked very well for me. I would say I let it smolder with visible flames but not over say 500 stack temp for about 30 min. Then open the air and get a nice blaze going up to 1100 or 1200. That will clean the flue and stove of any creosote that had formed from the half hour slow burn. I hope that makes some sense. 

James


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## LisaP (Jan 29, 2009)

Yes, it does thanks for the advice


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## MishMouse (Jan 29, 2009)

James,

Thanks for the advise.
I to am going to be burning less then seasoned wood starting sometime in late Feb.


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## James04 (Jan 29, 2009)

Mishmouse

I remember when you PMed me when you first got your stove. I am glad it is working out well for you. Especially with all this global warming we have been having. Ya gata love that grill!

James


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 29, 2009)

James04 said:
			
		

> branchburner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



--------------------
As i do not have an internal flue gauge, i have to go by my stove top temp. AB goes out at about 350-400 stove top  On start up i engage anywhere above 500 and then temp may drop to 450 and hold 
But there are other ways to tell if you have good afterburn
No 1 is I stack the wood as to create a tunnel from front to back so i can see the AB chamber, so its either dark(not firing) or lit up like the 4th of july (working) 
two other ways to tell when you can not actually see it is
There is a distinct sound like you water pipes make when there is hot water going through them a series of tings like metal expanding.
And one more is when you put your hand on the top of the back cover just below where the stack comes out of the stove, before you start your AB this area will be cool to the touch, once your AB kicks in after a few minutes you can only touch this for a second or so. THis test is about fool proof. It makes sense cuz before you engage the AB this area is shielded by the bypass door, and once you engage the AB the hot flue gas is passing right next to this area. 
Also when you engage the AB , if it looks like the fire has gone out , your too soon, either the stove is too cold or you do not have suffecient coal bed,  if your AB lights your fire will slow down a bit but not drastically.
Always when you add new wood the stove temp goes down a bit until that wood comes up to temp and burns off the moisture,so i always open the air all the way until the stove temp recovers.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 29, 2009)

MishMouse said:
			
		

> James,
> 
> Thanks for the advise.
> I to am going to be burning less then seasoned wood starting sometime in late Feb.


----------------------------
I learned the hard way to keep a set of leather gloves handy(like small welding gloves) when adding wood to the stove as i got a couple burns on my wrists from touching the rim of the top loading area while adding wood.


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## James04 (Jan 29, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> --------------------
> As i do not have an internal flue gauge, i have to go by my stove top temp. AB goes out at about 350-400 stove top  On start up i engage anywhere above 500 and then temp may drop to 450 and hold
> But there are other ways to tell if you have good afterburn
> No 1 is I stack the wood as to create a tunnel from front to back so i can see the AB chamber, so its either dark(not firing) or lit up like the 4th of july (working)
> ...



Trump,

Seems like this is working for you. The only problem I see with it. Once the stove has cooled to tell you you have a problem it is too late and you need to open the bypass back up and retry. Were the probe in the flue gives you the actual pulse of the AB and if it is starting to stall you will see it and can open the air up in response. For $15 or $20 I think it is well worth getting the probe thermometer for the flue. I never even look at the stove top temp unless I am curios. Although if starting from a dead cold stove it can help with gouging when to kick in the AB.

James


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## LisaP (Jan 29, 2009)

Trump,
How do you like the fireplace screen?  We are using the grill for the first time this weekend.  My husband is cooking brats on it for super bowl- out to be interesting.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 29, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> Trump,
> How do you like the fireplace screen?  We are using the grill for the first time this weekend.  My husband is cooking brats on it for super bowl- out to be interesting.



==============
When in fireplace mode you can not use the AB ,bypass door must be open but you get a lot more radiant heat anyway, great for roasting marshmallos.

Also a note to anyone with a TL-300 who does not have an optional blower, Im heating a home under construction right now and i need all the heat i can get (not yet insulated and some walls are not even drywalled yet.) I would venture to say the heat output is doubled with the blower running, i do not use it when first starting the stove as it delays the initial heating up to temp, but after the stove is at operating temp , without the blower i would think you are losing a consideral amount of heat in the form of elevated flue temp, instead of heating the house. Just my opnion but i think the Blower is a must with this stove, and its also adjustable high speed when on full air and low speed when on restricted air.  Also it prevents overheating of the stove ,if my stove top starts to climb toward 600 or higher i turn the blower up higher.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 7, 2009)

Update on the use of the Blower fan
On overnight burns with low air settings, the blower is best turned off as it lowers the temp  of the stove too much.


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## uptrapper (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't have the blower but I do use a pedestal fan that blows at the stove. I have found basically the same thing, if you put the fan on the stove even on low with the bypass closed it will stall within a couple hours, usually less. I do however run the fan on low pointing at the wall behind the stove and this does move the heat around quite well. If you want to heat the house up fast, the fan will draw a lot of heat off the stove quickly.

Mike


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## James04 (Feb 7, 2009)

trump said:
			
		

> Update on the use of the Blower fan
> On overnight burns with low air settings, the blower is best turned off as it lowers the temp  of the stove too much.



This will depend on how dry your wood is and how hot it got during the initial burn. I keep mine on all night on the lowest air setting. very rare that I get a stall over night if I take the time to get the entire load hot. Not all burnt up but hot. See my previous post about how to do this. I have now started to load up and leave the air completely closed until the stack temp gets well over 800. Then open the air up full to get up to 1100-1200 before closing the bypass. It can take more than 30 min to get to 800 like this. But it is well worth it. Of coarse you need a hot bed of coals to do this. 

James


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## stanleyjohn (Feb 7, 2009)

With my TL200 insert the fan is really needed to circulate the air outword away from the stove.The way the fan system is set up in my stove!(think its about the same with the 300)when the afterburn is actavated! my internal temp of the stove will drop some but the heat pumped out by the blower is greater due to the much higher temps in the backchamber heating the air channels nearby which the blower uses to collect the heat from the stove.Later at night just before bed when the last load is mostly hot coals i will turn the fan way down and still have some hot coals in the mourning.


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 10, 2009)

James04 said:
			
		

> trump said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------------------------
After Moving my Tl-300 to a different house i could see first hand that the stove will perform differently from 1 location to another. In the present location I can not set the stove air setting any lower than the second notch from the left or the stove will get progressively cooler till the AB stalls no matter what temp i start out at. Im guessing the draft is not as strong as it should be and the chimney is shorter than the first location. Other than that the stove works fine. One of the ways i maintain higher temps is to not use the blower fan on overnight burns if the air setting is below about a third from left. All setups will be slightly different with more or less draft. My wood is 5 years old so i know its dry. So i think what works with one setup may not work everywhere.


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## James04 (Feb 10, 2009)

Trump,

Yes. I should have made that disclaimer. A weaker draft would need a higher air setting. Could you describe your chimney setup. Both the old and new. Mine is about 36 feet of 6" insulated SS centrally located in the house. It is mostly a strait run and then has a jog in the attic before exiting. This provides a strong draft.

How long of a burn are you able to get with a full load? You should still be able to use the fan overnight. Unless the house is on the cold side. The room were my stove is, is usually 75-80 deg. 

James


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 10, 2009)

James04 said:
			
		

> Trump,
> 
> Yes. I should have made that disclaimer. A weaker draft would need a higher air setting. Could you describe your chimney setup. Both the old and new. Mine is about 36 feet of 6" insulated SS centrally located in the house. It is mostly a strait run and then has a jog in the attic before exiting. This provides a strong draft.
> 
> ...



I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)


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## James04 (Feb 11, 2009)

James[/quote]

I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)[/quote]

Trump,

That brings back some memories. I just finished building my house. When I first installed the stove there was not Sheetrock on the second floor ceiling and therefore no insulation. Basically open to the outside air as all the soffits were still not covered. The stove still did a good job of keeping us warm.

James


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 21, 2009)

James04 said:
			
		

> James



I am heating a home under renovation, Open stud walls, only about 20 Ft of chimney above the stove connection,today its warmer and the draft is considerably less than usual, takes a long time to get stove up to temp and AB does not kick on as soon, need higher stove temp to maintain AB when outside temp is warmer. Stove is amazing as i can burn pine 2x4 scraps with no smoke once AB is engaged, now that its warmer i will not need a strong overnight burn so its not a problem now(draft)[/quote]

Trump,

That brings back some memories. I just finished building my house. When I first installed the stove there was not Sheetrock on the second floor ceiling and therefore no insulation. Basically open to the outside air as all the soffits were still not covered. The stove still did a good job of keeping us warm.

James[/quote]
========================e
Same here, no sheetrock on the second floor ceiling. I just finished putting the ceiling up and i can feel the difference almost immediatley ,also with the walls ,some with no sheetrock. Soon ill be blowing insulation and im sure my stove will be burning at the lowest setting all the time after that. A lot of the wood im burning is coming out of the house im remodeling,probably 100 years old,hows that for seasoned wood? A lot of pine and still NO SMOKE while in AB. This stove is saving me at least $1000 on heating fuel a year in these remodeling jobs so im guessing about 2 years and it has paid for itself.


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## kenny chaos (Feb 21, 2009)

How many of you TL-300 guys can get OVER 300 degrees for fifteen hours?


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## Seasoned Oak (Feb 21, 2009)

kenny chaos said:
			
		

> How many of you TL-300 guys can get OVER 300 degrees for fifteen hours?



Mishmouse is reporting 12-17 hour burn times with a stove top over 400 degrees,Check out his post near the first page or two of this subject thread.


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## LisaP (Mar 1, 2009)

Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB?  We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal.  He checked the seal later and it is fine.  We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.


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## stanleyjohn (Mar 2, 2009)

sounds like your stove is backpuffing!This happens if the air intake is closed off alittle too much and unburned gasses ignite after some buildup causing what looks like a mini explosion inside the stove.This happens to my stove once in a while and shouldn't be a problem for the stove.What i think you did was open the door without first opening the top damper to release the unburned gases!so you probably ignited the unburned gas when the door was opened.


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## MishMouse (Mar 2, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB? We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal. He checked the seal later and it is fine. We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.



When the seal was checked, what procedure did he follow?
I know on my the door seal actually comes off the door and stuck to the stove, it looked and worked fine until it came unstuck. Re-Check the door seal and try the dollar bill test, if your are able to get the dollar bill through the seal with the door closed you need to replace the seal.


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## cyclone (Mar 2, 2009)

This happens often with my stove.  My problem is the stove after burned for long periods of time takes alot of the oxygen form my home and creates the back puff.  I had one yesterday and I can tell when the stove is going to back puff.  It also does not help my stove is in the basement dealing with pressureization.

I will be getting a fresh air kit hook up.  I think this will solve alot of my problems and have the stove burn cleaner.

I may have asked this before does Harman make a fresh air kit?


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## MishMouse (Mar 2, 2009)

murry said:
			
		

> I may have asked this before does Harman make a fresh air kit?



Yes, Harman does offer a fresh air kit for the TL-300.


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## Seasoned Oak (Mar 2, 2009)

LisaP said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever had flames shoot out of the front door when engaged in AB?  We had the stove full of dry oak, had it in AB for a couple hours- went to bed and started to smell smoke, my husband came out to check and as the rolling flames were going they would come through the door seal.  He checked the seal later and it is fine.  We have had the stove for 3 months and this is a first.


=====
You might want to look into one of those fresh air exchangers that bring in fresh air but heat it by transferring the heat from the stale air gong out so you are not losing heat. thay may be pricey but for a newer airtight house are very necessary.


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## ddklahr (Apr 29, 2010)

Changing topic, has anyone attempted to take the fire bricks out and do a thorough cleaning of the stove along with the combustion chamber?  The fire bricks don't worry me as much as the chamber.  Should a person try it?


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## cyclone (Apr 30, 2010)

Never attempted, but I want to do and good cleaning and have the After Burner checked.


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## Seasoned Oak (Apr 30, 2010)

From what  i can see of the AB chamber from above and in back of the stove after 2 seasons theres nothing to clean. A works fine right up to 60 degree outside temps ,which has a tendency to produce weak draft. I vacuum out the ceramic part at the back of the stove every few weeks during the heating season though to keep the air holes open.


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