# Harman Invincible RS Advice



## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 8, 2012)

I have had my Harman Invincible RS since 1996. When it was my primary burner here in Mass it was an absolute beast and gave me many many years of great service. In 16 years I've put in 2 control boards, 2 flame guides, and 1 combustion blower. When I bought the P61A, I retired the RS to my cottage in Maine. Prior to that install I took it to my shop on a pallet and gave it a COMPLETE tear down cleaning. 
The install in Maine is a straight vertical run through the roof of 12 feet. My EVL was a little close using 3 inch pipe so I went with 4 inch. Here's the deal. The stove doesn't perform anything like it did when it was installed here. The flame is lazy and the distribution blower just doesn't seem to have the same "umph".  I run it on stove temp. The distribution blower is completely clean...it just does blow as hard. Has anyone ever replaced theirs in an RS?
The door gasket is nice and soft but does NOT pass the dollar bill test. It is the original gasket so I know you guys are gonna tell me to replace it but I'm far from convinced that it the whole problem. I pulled out the combustion blower and it is clean. Is there a way to test it?
Again, the stove is completely clean and I've burned about 6 bags of SC since the install. I never burned SC in this stove so I'm going to try some GTs to see if that makes a difference. 
Looking forward to everyone's advice and counsel. Thanks in advance.


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## imacman (Apr 8, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> .....The flame is lazy......The door gasket is nice and soft but does NOT pass the dollar bill test. It is the original gasket so *I know you guys are gonna tell me to replace it* .......I pulled out the combustion blower and it is clean. Is there a way to test it?......


 
I am by no means a Harman expert, but YES.....obviously, if the gasket is leaking, that will give you a lazy flame. And 16 years......way past due for a change even if it's NOT the whole problem.

As far as testing the comb. motor, make up a test power lead like many of us have done (see pic), and connect it direct to 120 v. Might try dripping some 3in1 oil into the bearings while you have it out.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 10, 2012)

Wow....nobody else????


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## DexterDay (Apr 10, 2012)

I will second what imacman said. I am by no means a Harman expert. 

Door gasket, oil the bearings in both the convection blower and the combustion blower, and possibly change the pellet...


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 10, 2012)

I go a bit further and add make certain that you actually got all of the crud out of the stove. Sometimes stuff sticks and a long distance move dislodges it and it drops into a bad place and really gums up the works.

Since it is now in a camp I'd also look at possible visitation by members of the rodent clan. I remember a stove that had a nest made of fiberglass and other stuff along with acorn shells.

ETA: BTW, Sebago never froze over this past winter.


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## heat seeker (Apr 10, 2012)

Your voltage might be a tad low out in the boonies, it's easy enough to check.

Smokey has a good point about the move dislodging some crud.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 10, 2012)

heat seeker said:


> Your voltage might be a tad low out in the boonies, it's easy enough to check.
> 
> Smokey has a good point about the move dislodging some crud.


 

Don't knock the boonies I've had much better stability with the 'tric juice out here in the boonies than in the big city of Portland.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 11, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I go a bit further and add make certain that you actually got all of the crud out of the stove. Sometimes stuff sticks and a long distance move dislodges it and it drops into a bad place and really gums up the works.
> 
> Since it is now in a camp I'd also look at possible visitation by members of the rodent clan. I remember a stove that had a nest made of fiberglass and other stuff along with acorn shells.
> 
> ETA: BTW, Sebago never froze over this past winter.


 
Thanks, Smokey. This is a new install using the old stove. It hasn't worked quite right since I installed it in the Fall. The chimney and venting are all brand new, no rodents. I really tore it apart but I will double check when I get back there next weekend. Yes I am aware of the fact that Sebago didn't freeze. As a "local" you know that it is not all that uncommon for it not to freeze completely. I went over to the island several times by boat during the winter. (brrr) The ferry is now running for the island workers and the island officially opens on the 20th.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 11, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Don't knock the boonies I've had much better stability with the 'tric juice out here in the boonies than in the big city of Portland.


 
Yeah, CMP is pretty good. Even on an island we get good service and response to problems....


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## katman (Apr 11, 2012)

if the fan seems weak maybe it doesn't like pushing all the air in that 4 inch pipe.   what did you have in your old install?


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 11, 2012)

katman said:


> if the fan seems weak maybe it doesn't like pushing all the air in that 4 inch pipe. what did you have in your old install?


 
Yeah, I thought about that but the original install that now runs my P61A is a 3" Tee to 6" stovepipe via an increaser to 8"X8" block chimney. The 4" chimney in Maine has great draft too.


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## Delta-T (Apr 11, 2012)

have you noticed if the dist blower blows harder in test mode than in run mode? do you happen to own a magnahelix and/or multimeter? pretty easy to make sure you have good volts going in, and I'm sure I could find you the correct ohms for all the motors to make sure they are ok.


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## Lousyweather (Apr 11, 2012)

maybe (probably), Im just stupid, but the distribution blower has nothing to do with the laziness of the flame...whats the chance its the combustion blower? I know of no good way to test it, but that fan is still available. Not likely to be the circuitboard, but is what about the ESP probe? Also, with the RS, dont forget those side tubes need to be clean, both the vertical and horizontal ones (tho its likely you know this, since youve successfully ran yours for so long). As for the gaskets, yea, time to replace them......but if they were REALLY bad, the vac switch would stop the unit from feeding, and of course, you couldnt keep it lit. Check the intake damper as well....if its in a camp, theres a slight possibility that its sticking due to corrosion. Dont even want to suggest a critter got past the damper and is sitting dead in the air box since he couldnt get out.......lol.....


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 11, 2012)

Lousyweather said:


> maybe (probably), Im just stupid, but the distribution blower has nothing to do with the laziness of the flame...whats the chance its the combustion blower? I know of no good way to test it, but that fan is still available. Not likely to be the circuitboard, but is what about the ESP probe? Also, with the RS, dont forget those side tubes need to be clean, both the vertical and horizontal ones (tho its likely you know this, since youve successfully ran yours for so long). As for the gaskets, yea, time to replace them......but if they were REALLY bad, the vac switch would stop the unit from feeding, and of course, you couldnt keep it lit. Check the intake damper as well....if its in a camp, theres a slight possibility that its sticking due to corrosion. Dont even want to suggest a critter got past the damper and is sitting dead in the air box since he couldnt get out.......lol.....


 Thanks, All good stuff. My OP wasn't really clear. My distribution fan issue and lazy flame are in fact two separate issues and two different fans and I knew that. I'm pretty good at these Harman's but I was just reaching out in case I was missing something due to the fact that these are both "new" issues and started with the install of the stove in Maine.


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## ironpony (Apr 11, 2012)

does not like the fresh Maine air???
I think everyone else covered most areas
one thing I found with the old Invincible is
the pots get dirty/bad spots
I will rotate the knobs from stop to stop several times
to clean the windings and contact arm
seems to help


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 11, 2012)

ironpony said:


> does not like the fresh Maine air???
> I think everyone else covered most areas
> one thing I found with the old Invincible is
> the pots get dirty/bad spots
> ...


 I have a spare board with freshly cleaned pots so that is going to be one of the things I try. Thanks to everyone.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 11, 2012)

Corrosion from all those years in MA ruined it so once it good real air it expired .


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 12, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Corrosion from all those years in MA ruined it so once it good real air it expired .


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## ironpony (Apr 12, 2012)

hey  if you do not get it fixed I can swing buy and haul it away fro you


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## SmokeyTheBear (Apr 12, 2012)

ironpony said:


> hey if you do not get it fixed I can swing buy and haul it away fro you


 

It might be a bit off your beaten path ironpony. However if you were to swing by OMV's place with a couple of tractor trailers and a fork lift the trip might be worth it .


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 12, 2012)

ironpony said:


> hey if you do not get it fixed I can swing buy and haul it away fro you


 Thanks anyway IP. For all the reasons you like yours, I bet I could come up with more of them for mine.


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## smwilliamson (Apr 14, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> I have had my Harman Invincible RS since 1996. When it was my primary burner here in Mass it was an absolute beast and gave me many many years of great service. In 16 years I've put in 2 control boards, 2 flame guides, and 1 combustion blower. When I bought the P61A, I retired the RS to my cottage in Maine. Prior to that install I took it to my shop on a pallet and gave it a COMPLETE tear down cleaning.
> The install in Maine is a straight vertical run through the roof of 12 feet. My EVL was a little close using 3 inch pipe so I went with 4 inch. Here's the deal. The stove doesn't perform anything like it did when it was installed here. The flame is lazy and the distribution blower just doesn't seem to have the same "umph". I run it on stove temp. The distribution blower is completely clean...it just does blow as hard. Has anyone ever replaced theirs in an RS?
> The door gasket is nice and soft but does NOT pass the dollar bill test. It is the original gasket so I know you guys are gonna tell me to replace it but I'm far from convinced that it the whole problem. I pulled out the combustion blower and it is clean. Is there a way to test it?
> Again, the stove is completely clean and I've burned about 6 bags of SC since the install. I never burned SC in this stove so I'm going to try some GTs to see if that makes a difference.
> Looking forward to everyone's advice and counsel. Thanks in advance.


Your heat exchanger exhaust path is clogged. You need to remove the interior side panels and the bottom angle diverter then shoot 150psi of air up both sides of the exchangers. You'll find your problems there.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 15, 2012)

smwilliamson said:


> Your heat exchanger exhaust path is clogged. You need to remove the interior side panels and the bottom angle diverter then shoot 150psi of air up both sides of the exchangers. You'll find your problems there.


Scott, I respect your opinion greatly here. I am definitely going to check it again. Having said that, I have cleaned this stove for 16 years without any issues and with all due respect I know this stove inside out, including the heat exchangers. I will check things next weekend and report back.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 21, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Scott, I respect your opinion greatly here. I am definitely going to check it again. Having said that, I have cleaned this stove for 16 years without any issues and with all due respect I know this stove inside out, including the heat exchangers. I will check things next weekend and report back.


So I'm here at the cottage enjoying a nice weekend so far. Here are the things I've done so far. I installed the new door gasket, rechecked and brushed out the heat exchangers at Scott's suggestion, double checked the path from the combustion blower through the lower heat exchangers on both sides and cleaned the comb blower and fan blades really well. I operated the comb blower while it was out and it appears to work fine.  Fired it up early this morning and it does appear to function better. Although I said otherwise in my OP, I think the door gasket was most of the problem.  I have shut it down for now as it is supposed to get up to around 70 deg today. Anything new and I'll report back. Thanks for the advice.


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## movemaine (Apr 24, 2012)

Do your lights dim when it's running?


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## Harman Lover 007 (Apr 25, 2012)

movemaine said:


> Do your lights dim when it's running?


 
no


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 13, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> So I'm here at the cottage enjoying a nice weekend so far. Here are the things I've done so far. I installed the new door gasket, rechecked and brushed out the heat exchangers at Scott's suggestion, double checked the path from the combustion blower through the lower heat exchangers on both sides and cleaned the comb blower and fan blades really well. I operated the comb blower while it was out and it appears to work fine.  Fired it up early this morning and it does appear to function better. Although I said otherwise in my OP, I think the door gasket was most of the problem.  I have shut it down for now as it is supposed to get up to around 70 deg today. Anything new and I'll report back. Thanks for the advice.


I figured I would ressurect this thread now that the heating season here in Maine is underway ( for now )  Smokey...a little frost on the pumpkin this morning, eh??? I have had the stove on a few times this Fall and the dist fan issue just kept nagging at me. I said the heck with it and ordered one from Grainger for just $75 bucks. How can you go wrong? It came the next day. Installed it about an hour ago and holy crap what a difference!! This almost 17 year old workhorse is cranking now! The dist blower is at least 50-60% better than it was. Peak Fall colors today here in southern Maine. Have a great weekend.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 13, 2012)

No pumpkins here Harman Lover and I put the squash that was curing in the garage (they had cured long enough away).  I think we are all set for winter squash we harvested 104 ranging in weight from a little over 1 pound to 33.4 pounds.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> I figured I would ressurect this thread now that the heating season here in Maine is underway ( for now )  Smokey...a little frost on the pumpkin this morning, eh??? I have had the stove on a few times this Fall and the dist fan issue just kept nagging at me. I said the heck with it and ordered one from Grainger for just $75 bucks. How can you go wrong? It came the next day. Installed it about an hour ago and holy crap what a difference!! This almost 17 year old workhorse is cranking now! The dist blower is at least 50-60% better than it was. Peak Fall colors today here in southern Maine. Have a great weekend.



It would appear that no too many care about my poor old Invincible other than Smokey...
Since the distribution blower replacement worked so well I'm considering getting another combustion blower. Stove parts unlimited has one for approx $220. Are there any other aftermarket options out there?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> It would appear that no too many care about my poor old Invincible other than Smokey...
> Since the distribution blower replacement worked so well I'm considering getting another combustion blower. Stove parts unlimited has one for approx $220. Are there any other aftermarket options out there?


 
I hate to see an old stove get tossed simply due to age if the parts can still be had to keep it going.

Hey, were the fireworks shot off from Frye yesterday evening?

Do you have some numbers we can go on?


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## DexterDay (Oct 14, 2012)

I love older stoves. I still have my 17 yr old Englander. It sitting in stand by in the shop. Have to many in my Sig already.

Actually thought about selling it? If I could get $400 out of it, I would let it go 

Harman Lover, glad the replacement took care of your issue. Even though some things may seem right, sometimes they happen so slowly, that we dont hardly notice.

Looking at my kids is the same way. My Son is now 11 and daughter is 1.5 yrs. Watching them change is amazing!


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I hate to see an old stove get tossed simply due to age if the parts can still be had to keep it going.
> 
> Hey, were the fireworks shot off from Frye yesterday evening?
> 
> Do you have some numbers we can go on?


I thought the fireworks were over your way. They were loud and many islanders commented on them this morning. Someone else thought they were in Raymond but you wouldnt hear them would you?

I'll get you the Harman number.....
http://www.STOVE-PARTS-UNLIMITED.CO...ert_and_RS_Combustion_Blower_p/3-21-00945.htm


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

DexterDay said:


> I love older stoves. I still have my 17 yr old Englander. It sitting in stand by in the shop. Have to many in my Sig already.
> 
> Actually thought about selling it? If I could get $400 out of it, I would let it go
> 
> ...



DD
Enjoy your kids while you can. It goes by so fast. Seems like my wife and I were just doing little league and Brownies. We are now empty nesters with one out of college and the other two in....


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

Well I guess that puts them in the St Joesph's College area then I know there was a bonfire there yesterday evening.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Well I guess that puts them in the St Joesph's College area then I know there was a bonfire there yesterday evening.


That sounds about right...there probably weren't too many boats out there. Mine's still in though.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/939/746048/Unassigned/Harman-Stove-Combustion-Blower.html   $166

http://heiligkuh.com/bbandp/product_info.php/cPath/22_24/products_id/45 $159


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 14, 2012)

*Found it*

*Saint Joseph's College of Maine*

_10/13/2012_ - 10:00am *...* The 100 Year Burn - Bonfire & _Fireworks_ Show *...*


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> *Found it*
> 
> *Saint Joseph's College of Maine*
> 
> _10/13/2012_ - 10:00am *...* The 100 Year Burn - Bonfire & _Fireworks_ Show *...*



Good detective work


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 14, 2012)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/939/746048/Unassigned/Harman-Stove-Combustion-Blower.html   $166
> 
> http://heiligkuh.com/bbandp/product_info.php/cPath/22_24/products_id/45 $159



Thanks, Smokey.


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## mliiiwit (Oct 14, 2012)

I have no experience with a wood pellet burner but used a corn burner 1 season several years ago.  I now heat with a Woodstock PH, which is VERY sensitive to indoor/outdoor pressure differentials in my installation.  From my corn burner, I assume your pellet stove is drawing outside air.  If not, have you opened a door or window to see if the combustion improves?  I'd think a camp cabin would be drafty enough to not need such, but I know my PH sometimes has trouble drawing in what I thought was a drafty house.  Cracking a window open can make a huge difference with it.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 15, 2012)

mliiiwit said:


> I have no experience with a wood pellet burner but used a corn burner 1 season several years ago. I now heat with a Woodstock PH, which is VERY sensitive to indoor/outdoor pressure differentials in my installation. From my corn burner, I assume your pellet stove is drawing outside air. If not, have you opened a door or window to see if the combustion improves? I'd think a camp cabin would be drafty enough to not need such, but I know my PH sometimes has trouble drawing in what I thought was a drafty house. Cracking a window open can make a huge difference with it.


Thanks, but most pellet stoves work on a "negative pressure" system and don't require a "draft" to operate. Opening the door actually makes it worse.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Oct 17, 2012)

OK so I'm trying to track down which blower I really need.

The Stove Parts Unlimited one is $220 and they say it's specific to the Invincible RS and insert. I just need the blower not the housing.

Wood Heat Stoves has the more common and less expensive one at $114 and they say it fits the Invincible.

Both require me to change over the fan blade or buy a new one. Any thoughts or advice?


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## pell it (Oct 17, 2012)

movemaine said:


> Do your lights dim when it's running?


 

My lights dim when I am running!!




Can't help on the combustion blower though.


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## Choppar4 (Nov 25, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> I figured I would ressurect this thread now that the heating season here in Maine is underway ( for now ) Smokey...a little frost on the pumpkin this morning, eh??? I have had the stove on a few times this Fall and the dist fan issue just kept nagging at me. I said the heck with it and ordered one from Grainger for just $75 bucks. How can you go wrong? It came the next day. Installed it about an hour ago and holy crap what a difference!! This almost 17 year old workhorse is cranking now! The dist blower is at least 50-60% better than it was. Peak Fall colors today here in southern Maine. Have a great weekend.


 
I've been reading this post and getting great ideas on stuff to replace for my 15yr old Invincable RS and I thank you all. Might you have the Grainger number for the replacement dist blower motor you purchased?

Thanks!


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## Harman Lover 007 (Nov 25, 2012)

Choppar4 said:


> I've been reading this post and getting great ideas on stuff to replace for my 15yr old Invincable RS and I thank you all. Might you have the Grainger number for the replacement dist blower motor you purchased?
> 
> Thanks!


I will look it up and get back to you. If you take the Dayton number on the motor and put it in the Grainger search box, the Grainger one will come up.

Edit...here you go...   http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Shaded-Pole-Blower-2C647?Pid=search


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## xcampboss (Nov 28, 2012)

heat seeker said:


> Your voltage might be a tad low out in the boonies, it's easy enough to check.
> 
> Smokey has a good point about the move dislodging some crud.


heat seeker... this is off the topic, but I didn't know how else to get back to you to thank you for your advice re: smoking heat exchanger.  When I got home, it was dark so I fired up the PC-45 with all the lights off in the room and immediately spotted a stream of smoke coming from a pipe joint streaming right into the room air intake blower.  I had missed sealing one of the joint locking detentes.  Thanks to you & 76bryan I'm heating with pellets again... with no smoke in the house!  Thanks for that!


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## Choppar4 (Nov 28, 2012)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> I will look it up and get back to you. If you take the Dayton number on the motor and put it in the Grainger search box, the Grainger one will come up.
> 
> Edit...here you go... http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Shaded-Pole-Blower-2C647?Pid=search


 
Thanks soo much. I've got one on order!! Gonna do a fast overhaul of parts in the next week or so. New Combustion fan, Distribtution blower, gasket on the firebox, seals aroud the door.. Hope it runs as good as it did back in '96


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