# Question About Harman Manual Igniter Position



## F4jock (Nov 15, 2015)

Ok, so everyone seemed so enamored of the Manual igniter position in the Room Temp setting that I decided to try it more extensively than I have in the past.

What I found was that when I did this last night my actual retail stabilized room temperature dropped approximately 3 degrees from the point at which it was maintained in the Auto igniter position and that after the distribution fan went off, although the stove fed minimum pellets and sometimes more as advertised, my distribution fan did not seem to come back on. At all! Ever! All night. Essentially all I had was a single point radiant heat source. Outside temperature dropped to 26f. When in Auto at this temp my distribution fan always comes on and the room temp is maintained far more tightly and higher.

All I did was move the igniter switch from Auto to Manual after the igniter light went out. I touched nothing else. Did I do something wrong? Is this the way others have found it to operate so set up?

I'm the first one to admit that I have very little experience with this setting as I am quite happy with Room Temp Auto but since everyone else seems to think that Room Temp Manual is an excellent operational setting I thought I'd try it.

To be clear, my question is ONLY about distribution fan operation in Room Temp Auto vs Room Temp Manual.


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## Golfeur (Nov 15, 2015)

I put the switch on the stove temperature manually because my stove is in the basement.
I tried it in automatic room temperature control very well in the basement but upstairs the temperature differential becomes too large and it is less comfortable I must say that my house is 3 storeys. That's why I'm stove manual temperature this way the distribution fan remains on. Even if it is warmer in the basement I am not 95% of the time in the basement.
Excuse me for the language I translate with google


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## Husky (Nov 15, 2015)

I find that when it is colder outside and my stove will cycle from on to off more frequently then I run the stove on manual. Early in the heating season when my house gets up to temp and then the stove will kick off and not come back on for an hour or more then auto is preferred.


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## Don2222 (Nov 15, 2015)

Hi F4jock
Sounds like you found a bug in the firmware for the version circuit board behind the control panel you have.
How old is the stove?
What numbers do you have on the component side of the circuit board on the chipset?


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## F4jock (Nov 15, 2015)

I was thinking the same possibility. Far as I know the distribution fan should function normally no matter the igniter mode.

It's a new Platinum board. Just installed it this fall. Stove is an eght-year-old Accentra Insert.

No clue about the chipset. Watching football ATM.


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## bogieb (Nov 15, 2015)

That doesn't sound right at all - not the way my P61 acted last winter. I believe the distribution fan would go on and off (heck, I'm old so the memory goes, plus I never really paid that much attention). But the temp certainly didn't drop down there. However, I only use manual once the really cold weather sets in and the stove would be turning on/off continuously if left in auto (no, nothing to do with igniter wear, just how fast the end by the garage can get quite cod versus the stove end). It almost sounds as if it thought it was in stove temp fireplace mode.

I must say though, your Auto room temp is controlled much more tightly than mine does, so maybe the platinum board acts differently? Of course, I have no idea what my board is, so no help there.


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## bogieb (Nov 15, 2015)

I believe CoryS said his was acting much the same way so he runs his in stove temp - auto to keep the distribution fan going (I tried that and it does keep the fan going at whatever speed you set; hi or lo)


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## F4jock (Nov 15, 2015)

bogieb said:


> I believe CoryS said his was acting much the same way so he runs his in stove temp - auto to keep the distribution fan going (I tried that and it does keep the fan going at whatever speed you set; hi or lo)



Don't like Stove Temp at all in any iteration. 

Gonna call the board vendor tomorrow and see what they say. Will play with it meanwhile to be sure I'm not seeing things.


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## bogieb (Nov 15, 2015)

I'm not a big fan either, but may experiment some with the P43 this winter just because I can


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## Peterfield (Nov 15, 2015)

I have a 52i and have just been comparing the two modes.  In auto, it does cycle on and off as needed and the flame oscillates between a high flame and going completely out.  In manual mode, room temp, the flame stays relatively steady once room temperature is reached and it seems to burn less pellets that way so far as I can tell.


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## F4jock (Nov 22, 2015)

Yes but what does your distribution fan do in Manual, Room Temp?


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## wildbill (Nov 22, 2015)

I have a 2015 52i and in this mode the fan comes on and off with the ramp up ,down as the thermostat call for heat and shuts off when its satisfied . Auto mode the fan seems to run a bit longer when it shuts down, which in the warmer season is how I've been running , now that its colder I run in manual . idk why your stove isn't kicking in when its calling for heat, mine seems to take longer now I have both stove going, I think in my set up the 52 upstairs the  68 down in the basement is keeping the stat satisfied , is your stat kinda close to the stove, mine was and in slow burn it was just enough to keep it from calling for heat and letting the room cool down more than auto would, long story short yes the fan goes on and off like auto but doesn't seem to run as long as auto does. hope that helps some..lol..


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## Golfeur (Nov 22, 2015)

My idea why the fan faster distribution stops in the temperature chamber in manual is that the screw continuous power operated on a low fire and the temperature in the room would go far beyond the setpoint when in automatic fan continuous distribution work longer because the feed screw stops and the remaining pellet remains a burn will not do much to exceed the temperature setpoint.


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## ps50 (Nov 22, 2015)

Yeah


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## bogieb (Nov 22, 2015)

Care to elaborate? F4 is not going to win the prize for Mr. Congeniality (neither will I BTW), but that comment not only is not helpful or related to the conversation, but lacks any evidence to support your assertion.


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## ps50 (Nov 22, 2015)

Just playin.


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## bogieb (Nov 22, 2015)

ps50 said:


> Just playin.


Ooops, sorry, wasn't in on the joke


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## Peterfield (Nov 22, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Yes but what does your distribution fan do in Manual, Room Temp?



Mine is running very steady, as is the flame.  It seems that the stove finds a sweet spot that keeps the temp within a degree or two.  When I switch to auto, the flame will go strong and then throttle down and even shut down and then restart the process again.  The temp in the room swings a couple of degrees either way.  It also seems that I am using less pellets in manual mode but to be fair, I haven't accurately measured this yet.

Correction:  Paid more attention tonight and the distro blower did in fact turn off at times.  Hadn't noticed that before.


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## F4jock (Nov 23, 2015)

Don't much care about pellet use but my fear is that there is a hole in the software of my new Platinum. Just got back from a Memphis trip via an emergency landing in Nashville courtesy of smoke in terms cockpit do haven't had much chance to play with the stove but with the cold weather coming I plan to see who goes.

Far as I know the only difference between Manual and Auto igniter position should be that in Manual the stove banks down but never goes out. I was looking for confirmation. We'll see.


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## Zeus (Nov 23, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Ok, so everyone seemed so enamored of the Manual igniter position in the Room Temp setting that I decided to try it more extensively than I have in the past.
> 
> What I found was that when I did this last night my actual retail stabilized room temperature dropped approximately 3 degrees from the point at which it was maintained in the Auto igniter position and that after the distribution fan went off, although the stove fed minimum pellets and sometimes more as advertised, my distribution fan did not seem to come back on. At all! Ever! All night. Essentially all I had was a single point radiant heat source. Outside temperature dropped to 26f. When in Auto at this temp my distribution fan always comes on and the room temp is maintained far more tightly and higher.
> 
> ...


When you switched to room manuall, your temp should have dropped around 2* holding the exact temp you have set on the stove dial,due to the temp variance in room auto. F4 since your fans did not come back on was the house temp colder than your set temp or the same?


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## bogieb (Nov 24, 2015)

Put the P61 in room temp / manual last night and the room blower went off as the fire banked down (it had reached the room temp). I didn't wait to see if the blower came back on (I'm sure it would have eventually but saw no reason to push all the warmth out the pipe when extra warmth can go upstairs). I wanted continuous blower, so I turned it to stove temp (about mid blower setting) / auto, 1 feed and 1 on the "temp" dial. Basement was how I wanted it to be this morning (good temp everywhere, not just warm by the probe). This setting is starting to grow on me

This morning I changed it back to Room/auto since the carpenter will be in/out of the basement and probably leave the door wide open at time.

If I remember tonight, depending on the projected low temp, I'll leave it in room/manual a while and confirm that the fan does come back on when heat is called for.


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## Husky (Nov 24, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Put the P61 in room temp / manual last night and the room blower went off as the fire banked down (it had reached the room temp). I didn't wait to see if the blower came back on (I'm sure it would have eventually but saw no reason to push all the warmth out the pipe when extra warmth can go upstairs). I wanted continuous blower, so I turned it to stove temp (about mid blower setting) / auto, 1 feed and 1 on the "temp" dial. Basement was how I wanted it to be this morning (good temp everywhere, not just warm by the probe). This setting is starting to grow on me
> 
> This morning I changed it back to Room/auto since the carpenter will be in/out of the basement and probably leave the door wide open at time.
> 
> If I remember tonight, depending on the projected low temp, I'll leave it in room/manual a while and confirm that the fan does come back on when heat is called for.


I'm on my second year with the 52i and started doing that exact same thing. Last year I ran the stove on room temp auto almost the whole year. I seemed to go through a lot of pellets for using the stove as my supplement heat source (5 ton). I'm looking for a new way to burn. Its still early in the season to tell if burning this way is saving me any pellets yet. I do agree with you that I don't want any of my extra heat going up the chimney. If I am on a standby burn during manual I want the heat that is being produced. The trick for me is to set the stove temp number and feed rate number at the best setting for the temperature outside. This way I can just let it burn. Right now with high 30's low 40's I can set stove temp at 2.5 and feed rate at 3 and I burn about a bag a day. This keeps living room area at desired 74 and helps heat other parts of the house.


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## F4jock (Nov 24, 2015)

Zeus said:


> When you switched to room manuall, your temp should have dropped around 2* holding the exact temp you have set on the stove dial,due to the temp variance in room auto. F4 since your fans did not come back on was the house temp colder than your set temp or the same?


Not sure. Just seemed that with no fan lots of heat going going up the pipe so went back to Room / Auto which has served me well for seven seasons. Have to play with it I guess.

One interesting thing about the new Platinum board. It seems that my electric bill has gone down to a new low. Last month it was only 68 bucks! I attribute this, maybe, to the fan cycling more with the new board as the old one was limping for a few seasons. Stove banks down lots more now, fan has lots more off time. Used to run almost 24 / 7.


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## bogieb (Nov 24, 2015)

Dang, those are my summertime electric bills (no AC)


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## Tonyray (Nov 24, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Not sure. Just seemed that with no fan lots of heat going going up the pipe so went back to Room / Auto which has served me well for seven seasons. Have to play with it I guess.
> 
> One interesting thing about the new Platinum board. It seems that my electric bill has gone down to a new low. Last month it was only 68 bucks! I attribute this, maybe, to the fan cycling more with the new board as the old one was limping for a few seasons. Stove banks down lots more now, fan has lots more off time. Used to run almost 24 / 7.



I had a post few weeks ago about the same deal..
switching to manual and having the dist blower shut off [immediately] thus sending lot of heat up the exhaust pipe.
[yes I know how it works.. room/manual works off of the ESP probe in the flueway] and Not the room temp probe.
since the dist blower has not come back on since I switched to manual 25 minutes ago,
I don't think running in Stove[ or constant] temp is going to be any better since that mode runs off of the ESP probe also.
soooo, have been sending heat up the exhaust for almost 30 minutes while the pellets are in maint mode or simmer as I like to call it.
I seriously don't think there is anything wrong with my Harman P61A.    I think it is working as it is supposed to..
Note: I just raised my set temperature from 70 to 75 on the room temp dial.
the distribution blower clicked on so my ESP probe is fine..


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## F4jock (Nov 24, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I had a post few weeks ago about the same deal..
> switching to manual and having the dist blower shut off [immediately] thus sending lot of heat up the exhaust pipe.
> [yes I know how it works.. room/manual works off of the ESP probe in the flueway] and Not the room temp probe.
> since the dist blower has not come back on since I switched to manual 25 minutes ago,
> ...


Ah ha! So it would seem that if the stove is in a maintenance burn the blower is not active. This really doesn't bode well for the way we run which is at about 69 to 70 °f max. Think I'm gonna stick with Room Temp Auto.


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## F4jock (Nov 24, 2015)

You don't want to know what our summertime electric bills are: central air and we maintain the same 70f that we do in the winter.


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## Cory S (Nov 24, 2015)

F4jock said:


> You don't want to know what our summertime electric bills are: central air and we maintain the same 70f that we do in the winter.


We keep our Central AC at 72*.  2 refrigerators, 1 chest freezer, and three occupants.  $89-102.00/month.  Last two months without the AC, $77.00 and $64.00 for October.  We also have the 3rd highest KWH cost in the U.S.


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## Tonyray (Nov 24, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Ah ha! So it would seem that if the stove is in a maintenance burn the blower is not active. This really doesn't bode well for the way we run which is at about 69 to 70 °f max. Think I'm gonna stick with Room Temp Auto.


well, not exactly...
what I have found out is in room/manual, I need to set my temperature at least 5 degrees higher than in room/auto.
my reply to you was approx 25-30 minutes ago and the dist blower is still running since I raised the temp from 70 to 75...
bottom line I assume is that the ESP Probe[ in the exhaust] doesn't match the temp selected when in room/auto and needs to be set a bit higher.
as I said earlier, as soon as I raised the temp from 70 to 75 [in room/manaul] the blower came right on and is still blowing and feeding pellets to bring the room temp up.


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## Golfeur (Nov 24, 2015)

My idea why the fan faster distribution stops in the temperature chamber in manual is that the screw continuous power operated on a low fire and the temperature in the room would go far beyond the setpoint when in automatic fan continuous distribution work longer because the feed screw stops and the remaining pellet remains a burn will not do much to exceed the temperature setpoint.


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## F4jock (Nov 24, 2015)

Well from what I can glean there MAY be two advantages to Room / Manual: longer igniter life and less pellet use. Problem is I don't know that anyone has quantified those onservations. It'd have to be done under tightly controlled conditions for the data to be meaningful and outside of a fairly sophisticated test facility I don't see it happening, thus it's pretty much personal preference / subjective I guess.


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## Tonyray (Nov 24, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Well from what I can glean there MAY be two advantages to Room / Manual: longer igniter life and less pellet use. Problem is I don't know that anyone has quantified those onservations. It'd have to be done under tightly controlled conditions for the data to be meaningful and outside of a fairly sophisticated test facility I don't see it happening, thus it's pretty much personal preference / subjective I guess.


longer Igniter life is a no brainer since it is not re-flaming the pellets over and over . 
they are easy to replace and can bought on ebay for around 70.00 and identical Harman specks right down to length of wire..[not saying you should run in Manual JUST to save Igniter.  many here have same one for many years..
as far as pellet consumption, I would Assume that with the stove shutting down sometimes for possibly an hour at a time. room/auto would use less pellets even though it needs to do an initial feed.. but as you said, no one seems to have the scientific answer'... just have to try both modes on equally temp days and get a general eyeball of pellets used..
btw:
in room/manual, blowers is coming back on approx every 20 minutes or so...
I have a poor insulated old house so it is deff picking up on heat loss.
think I will give manual a try for a while at least after dark.
daytime sun comes out and we get sun thru the windows so room/auto during the daylight hours...
hope this has helped a bit..


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## Golfeur (Nov 24, 2015)

I tried it in automatic room temperature and when the feed screw stops the fan to run continuously 20 minutes it stops when the fire is almost extinguished. It remains stopped 4 minutes and the stove comes back on automatically.
If I put it in the manual for the same temperature the fan stops 27 minutes
So my heat goes out the chimney, as in manual feed rate operated in continuous feed


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## Tonyray (Nov 24, 2015)

Golfeur said:


> I tried it in automatic room temperature and when the feed screw stops the fan to run continuously 20 minutes it stops when the fire is almost extinguished. It remains stopped 4 minutes and the stove comes back on automatically.
> If I put it in the manual for the same temperature the fan stops 27 minutes
> So my heat goes out the chimney, as in manual screw operated in continuous feed


sorry but your loosing me talking about the screw..
what screw do u mean?


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## Golfeur (Nov 24, 2015)

Translation is excused
pellet feed


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## Tonyray (Nov 24, 2015)

Golfeur said:


> Translation is excused
> pellet feed


well, tonite I have been running it in room/manual but I set my temperature dial to 75 instead of 70 which I put it on in room/auto.
the fan doesn't seem to shut off as long now... maybe around 10 minutes before coming back on.
the savings here is on pellets since the stove does not need to re-fill  the pot from zero  and re-ignite all over again as it does in room/auto.


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## Golfeur (Nov 24, 2015)

You're right my p68 turns back on when the stove is running feed 3 1/2 minutes and the igniter is still 4 minutes


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## Golfeur (Nov 24, 2015)

Tonight I make the same experiment with the same conditions except manual
In automatic I did 28 hours with 1 bag


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## bogieb (Nov 25, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I had a post few weeks ago about the same deal..
> switching to manual and having the dist blower shut off [immediately] thus sending lot of heat up the exhaust pipe.
> [yes I know how it works.. room/manual works off of the ESP probe in the flueway] and Not the room temp probe.
> since the dist blower has not come back on since I switched to manual 25 minutes ago,
> ...


Tony - have you tried setting it in stove/auto? The book doesn't say anything about that mode, but the fan will stay on the entire time (at least if you have it on mid or high - not sure about low). May not work as you wish, but may be worth investigating.


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## Tonyray (Nov 25, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Tony - have you tried setting it in stove/auto? The book doesn't say anything about that mode, but the fan will stay on the entire time (at least if you have it on mid or high - not sure about low). May not work as you wish, but may be worth investigating.


Going into 3rd pellet season and never tried Stove temp..
Well, actually I prob did when I 1st got it but not for any period of time & wasn't expirienced enough yet with settings to compare back then.
I will try stove after a week here on Manual so it's embeded in my " tinkering around mode"..
I am for sure a room/auto during the shoulder times when Sun comes out full blast late mornings/early afternoons.. we get tons of sun blasting thru our " house of windows" here.


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## bogieb (Nov 25, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Going into 3rd pellet season and never tried Stove temp..
> Well, actually I prob did when I 1st got it but not for any period of time & wasn't expirienced enough yet with settings to compare back then.
> I will try stove after a week here on Manual so it's embeded in my " tinkering around mode"..
> I am for sure a room/auto during the shoulder times when Sun comes out full blast late mornings/early afternoons.. we get tons of sun blasting thru our " house of windows" here.



Room / auto for me too so far this season (except a couple nights where for whatever reason I tried something else). It's hard to play around with different settings when they will heat you out of the house at this time of year


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## F4jock (Nov 26, 2015)

Interesting observations from everyone. What I don't like about Stove Mode and Room Manual Mode is that when I reach my desired room temperature the stove banks down but never shuts off and tends to overheat the room.

As for saving pellets because the pot doesn't have to be refilled, I don't know about that because when you are banked down you're constantly using pellets where if the stove was off you wouldn't be using any. I kind of think that over time it evens out. Perhaps the wife and I like Room Auto better because we don't keep the house that warm, we both like it between 68 and 70. Of course this cost us money in the summer when we turn on the AC.


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## Tonyray (Nov 26, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Interesting observations from everyone. What I don't like about Stove Mode and Room Manual Mode is that when I reach my desired room temperature the stove banks down but never shuts off and tends to overheat the room.
> 
> As for saving pellets because the pot doesn't have to be refilled, I don't know about that because when you are banked down you're constantly using pellets where if the stove was off you wouldn't be using any. I kind of think that over time it evens out. Perhaps the wife and I like Room Auto better because we don't keep the house that warm, we both like it between 68 and 70. Of course this cost us money in the summer when we turn on the AC.


I agree about pellet consumption.. can't feed pellets when the stove is off for hour or hours.. .. much more pellet savings on Auto during shoulder season then it prob evens out as both modes are On all the time in bitter cold.


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## bags (Nov 26, 2015)

I have had my P68 set in Room Temp with the igniter on manual for a bit now just idling along. My blower runs constantly because I have the Temperature Dial set at 5 just above the 75 degrees mark. My feed rate is at just less than 1 in between the 1 and the red hash mark. My house stat is currently reading 76 and it is about 12 feet away from the stove to the left of it.

The wife likes it warm as I have repeatedly stated here. I am in shorts, a T shirt and Crocs and too warm.

I think you have to set your temp dial to 4.5 to 5 in order for the distribution fan to constantly blow while running in this mode. This has been my experience anyway. anything less and the blower goes off and on or stays off. Running as I mentioned above I am using far less pellets than running any other mode. Cory and I are pretty much so running the same settings or close.

I do not mess with stove temp mode. I really have no use for it here. Maybe if another ice age sets in I might go that route with stove temp. Until then bring on the global warming because cold weather sucks IMHO.


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## Tonyray (Nov 26, 2015)

bags said:


> I have had my P68 set in Room Temp with the igniter on manual for a bit now just idling along. My blower runs constantly because I have the Temperature Dial set at 5 just above the 75 degrees mark. My feed rate is at just less than 1 in between the 1 and the red hash mark. My house stat is currently reading 76 and it is about 12 feet away from the stove to the left of it.
> 
> The wife likes it warm as I have repeatedly stated here. I am in shorts, a T shirt and Crocs and too warm.
> 
> ...


wow.. feed rate at #1? I can see why the blower doesn't shut off..hard to fathom the temps you get with a feed rate that low..


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## Golfeur (Nov 26, 2015)

When my test going to be finished in relation to test I did before (see my earlier post) I will give my comments. Currently I'm frying temperature automatic feed rate and temperature are the same settings


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## Cory S (Nov 26, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> wow.. feed rate at #1? I can see why the blower doesn't shut off..hard to fathom the temps you get with a feed rate that low..


My feed rate stays between 1-1.5 also. Stove temp mode.  I keep the P61A as low as it will go most of the time.  Turning up the feed burns significantly more pellets and raises the temperature.  It doesn't matter where the temp/# dial is set, feed rate is changing the amount of auger time on mine.


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## bags (Nov 26, 2015)

Cory, If you want the distribution blower to run while in room temp manual igniter then it does matter where the temp dial is set. Stove mode is different.

Tony, I run this way when the outside temps are not cold, cold. When the outside temps drop the feed rate goes up to 3.5 to 4. When the P68 is on that setting it is a heat throwing beast. I really bought it to reduce my wood usage in the Woodmaster OWB during the shoulder season thinking it would not keep up with heating my home in the cold. I was wrong and pleasantly surprised. It will heat the entire core of my house or the 2,350 SQ FT on two floors we mainly use. The PC45 is in another area of the house. My total square footage is right above 4,000 SQ FT.

This place is too damn big but works well now with the kids. When my wife retires in 7-8 years and the youngest is graduated etc; this place is going to be SOLD!  I already have plans to build a new super efficient smaller place on my land here. I will divide some acres up and sell the house with 5 or so acres and keep the rest to build my new place. And my azz is outta here in the winter or at least part of it like after the holidays thru March. 

Keep in mind I am a design build contractor so I can get a lot for much less building my own stuff like I have with this place. Bought the land and existing beat up house for $110K in 2003. They were asking $199K back then but lived in the UP in Michigan so they wanted it sold. This place with just 5 acres would bring every bit of $450 to $500K now. So there is my fund for the new place and some cash in the bank afterwards.


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## Golfeur (Nov 26, 2015)

My test is finished I made 1/2 hour less and stove Temp Auto mode with 1 bag of pellets I made 27 1/2 hours compared Temp mode in room settings the same temperature and the same conditions outside temperature


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## F4jock (Nov 27, 2015)

I see what you're doing, I think. Compensating for "always feeding" by setting the feed rate low speed as to top-limit the max pellets you can use?

I agree about the "5 or greater" temp setting to get the fan functional in "Manual /Room. Stumbled on that one.


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## F4jock (Nov 27, 2015)

It's a way to kinda manually control temp. In essence you are forcing the fan on all the time by never allowing the stove to achieve the temperature you set it at so it just keeps trying.


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## F4jock (Nov 27, 2015)

Right Cory. You are manually setting temp by controlling feed.


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## F4jock (Nov 27, 2015)

Golfeur said:


> My test is finished I made 1/2 hour less and stove Temp Auto mode with 1 bag of pellets I made 27 1/2 hours compared Temp mode in room settings the same temperature and the same conditions outside temperature


To me that means the modes are pretty much the same as I'd say 1/2 hour is within experimental error given lack of rigid experimental controls.


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## Golfeur (Nov 27, 2015)

F4jock Exactly the same settings 1/2 hour less with 1 bag for me here is not worth the trouble to function Temp room and used the igniter 12 times a day and also have the distribution fan that always works to keep the maximum heat in the house


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## Tonyray (Nov 27, 2015)

F4jock said:


> It's a way to kinda manually control temp. In essence you are forcing the fan on all the time by never allowing the stove to achieve the temperature you set it at so it just keeps trying.


ok... but is it producing heat with the feed on #1,  temp on 75,   room/manual as was instructed?
and what speed is the dis blower set at?


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## F4jock (Nov 28, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> ok... but is it producing heat with the feed on #1,  temp on 75,   room/manual as was instructed?
> and what speed is the dis blower set at?


Sure it is. But as I said, run that way you are controlling the room temp with feed rate instead of thermostat. It will also work in Room / Auto that way and you'll never cycle the igniter either because temp will never be satisfied.


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## Tonyray (Nov 28, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Sure it is. But as I said, run that way you are controlling the room temp with feed rate instead of thermostat. It will also work in Room / Auto that way and you'll never cycle the igniter either because temp will never be satisfied.


ok.. understand. I think.
it's to keep the blower constant in room/manual during maint[ or as I call it.simmer mode.]
I also assume that once weather get super cold that setup won't cut it and regular running [ feed rates of 3-4 ]would be exspected to heat your house or would the constant blower compensate..? guess it would depend on how tight house is...I know with my not well insulated house, a steady blower pushing heat is needed around the clock in the  frigid days.
now how about pellet consumption would that be more ? less?


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## Cory S (Nov 28, 2015)

It will always be less pellet consumption with the feed rate lower.... Run it as low as you can, while still maintaining your comfort level.  My feed rate is more controlling over stove output than the temperature dial will ever be.  Doesn't matter if it's on room temp or stove temp.   I never need go over 2 on the feed rate.  Never consume more than 32-38lbs a day...


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## Tonyray (Nov 28, 2015)

Cory S said:


> It will always be less pellet consumption with the feed rate lower.... Run it as low as you can, while still maintaining your comfort level.  My feed rate is more controlling over stove output than the temperature dial will ever be.  Doesn't matter if it's on room temp or stove temp.   I never need go over 2 on the feed rate.  Never consume more than 32-38lbs a day...


"
very interesting..
I'm using this method today even though it is completly contrary to Harmans rules of running the stove...
"lowering the feed rate is like putting a brick under your gas pedal"
is the term most used...causes unburned pellets, room never gets to temp you desire, dirty stove etc as stove needs to be run HOT.  but I Imagine with the blower running constant this method works.
I know my stoves Inards so I will be doing it your way and will see if it suffers any downsides..
Seems that with that low feed the flames will never ramp up.. not enough pellets but we're talking keeping a constant flame here so maybe that compensates and high flames not needed off and on. hope u understand what I;m getting at here..


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## Cory S (Nov 28, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> "
> very interesting..
> I'm using this method today even though it is completly contrary to Harmans rules of running the stove...
> "lowering the feed rate is like putting a brick under your gas pedal"
> ...


Yep.  Mine operates totally differently than what everything states.  I only use stove mode myself, but while documenting auger cycle times, I have found that turning up my feed rate in fact ALWAYS runs the auger cycle "ON" time longer.  Stove temperature goes up  as well as pellet consumption.  Even if the temperature/# dial is turn down to 1....  My auger cycle does not change at all with the temp/# dial.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Yep.  Mine operates totally differently than what everything states.  I only use stove mode myself, but while documenting auger cycle times, I have found that turning up my feed rate in fact ALWAYS runs the auger cycle "ON" time longer.  Stove temperature goes up  as well as pellet consumption.  Even if the temperature/# dial is turn down to 1....  My auger cycle does not change at all with the temp/# dial.


But Cory obviously your house is tight and very well insulated. In a house like Tony's or mine ( mine a little larger and certainly old construction, his with more glass) when the wind kicks up out of the WNW at 40+MPH and it's in the teens, single digits on down lower even, your feed rate system fails. Anything works in this shoulder season and down into the upper 20's. That's why we have P61's for that cold weather, we need fire, fire makes heat ! Otherwise we could have bought P43's, or in my case a 35i. And actually for a good part of the winter could probably have gotten away with P43's and certainly you could. Point being right now I could probably stick a propane torch in the stove for a fire and it would heat the house, it's 47 deg out.


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## Cory S (Nov 28, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> But Cory obviously your house is tight and very well insulated. In a house like Tony's or mine ( mine a little larger and certainly old construction, his with more glass) when the wind kicks up out of the WNW at 40+MPH and it's in the teens, single digits on down lower even, your feed rate system fails. Anything works in this shoulder season and down into the upper 20's. That's why we have P61's, we need fire, fire makes heat ! Otherwise we could have bought P43's. And actually for a good part of the winter could probably have gotten away with P43's and certainly you could. Point being right now I could probably stick a propane torch in the stove for a fire and it would heat the house, it's 47 deg out.


Correct, with all those factors, it's still irrelevant that the stove operation is still differentiating from the standard operation.   I have done my testing starting with a cold home also. (58* inside, 21* outside) Multiple tests and doumentations. 

Example:  Set feed rate @ 4.... Change temperature/# dial anywhere from 4 down to 1, and the auger cycle stays the same...  Again, don't forget that this is stove temperature mode testing.  The number dial is only supposed to increase heat output when turned up.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Correct, with all those factors, it's still irrelevant that the stove operation is still differentiating from the standard operation.   I have done my testing starting with a cold home also. (58* inside, 21* outside) Multiple tests and doumentations.
> 
> Example:  Set feed rate @ 4.... Change temperature/# dial anywhere from 4 down to 1, and the auger cycle stays the same...  Again, don't forget that this is stove temperature mode testing.  The number dial is only supposed to increase heat output when turned up.


You have to hit a point of diminishing return if your house requires enough heat. Turn the heat up all you want but if there is no fuel it's going to run real long to recover a house, if at all. It's like too small a nozzle in an oil burner, you can actually hit a point where it runs so long to recover the house  temp it uses more fuel than a bigger nozzle that recovers quickly. So I'm going to say that your house doesn't require a whole bunch or heat. Mine on the other hand ( running in room temp in cold weather unless backing up with oil) in the cold weather does best  at feed rate 4ish. Even 3 will use more fuel. And it's also fuel dependent. But my average feed is around 4. In Stove Temp I run three and have run two because I'm running a fixed fire and if it's warm out the house will heat, if it's cold out the oil will kick in.


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## Cory S (Nov 28, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> You have to hit a point of diminishing return if your house requires enough heat. Turn the heat up all you want but if there is no fuel it's going to run real long to recover a house, if at all. It's like too small a nozzle in an oil burner, you can actually hit a point where it runs so long to recover the house  temp it uses more fuel than a bigger nozzle that recovers quickly. So I'm going to say that your house doesn't require a whole bunch or heat. Mine on the other hand ( running in room temp in cold weather unless backing up with oil) in the cold weather does best  at feed rate 4ish. Even 3 will use more fuel. And it's also fuel dependent. But my average feed is around 4. In Stove Temp I run three and have run two because I'm running a fixed fire and if it's warm out the house will heat, if it's cold out the oil will kick in.


Correct.  I realize all of this.  My testing takes all factors into consideration.  Nothing will change the fact that the stove outputs more heat, and more fuel consumption with the feed rate set to higher settings. I can tell you to the second, how much the auger cycle runs with each increment of the dial, down to 1/4 number intervals.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Correct.  I realize all of this.  My testing takes all factors into consideration.  Nothing will change the fact that the stove outputs more heat, and more fuel consumption with the feed rate set to higher settings. I can tell you to the second, how much the auger cycle runs with each increment of the dial, down to 1/4 number intervals.


Well I have to say you are diligent.


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## Tonyray (Nov 28, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Correct.  I realize all of this.  My testing takes all factors into consideration.  Nothing will change the fact that the stove outputs more heat, and more fuel consumption with the feed rate set to higher settings. I can tell you to the second, how much the auger cycle runs with each increment of the dial, down to 1/4 number intervals.


I have to agree with Alternateheat..
it's seems like a good pellet saving constant blower operation that is good for Shoulder season like now..
I doubt if it will work on anything other than a tight as a Baby's A... dwelling.
Can't see a feed rate of #1 giving me enough heat on those 20-30 degree or lower days..even with the blower running constant..
but I will try it just to prove myself wrong or right.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I have to agree with Alternateheat..
> it's seems like a good pellet saving constant blower operation that is good for Shoulder season like now..
> I doubt if it will work on anything other than a tight as a Baby's A... dwelling.
> Can't see a feed rate of #1 giving me enough heat on those 20-30 degree or lower days..even with the blower running constant..
> but I will try it just to prove myself wrong or right.


Tony I think jags tried this last year ( i should let him speak for himself but at the moment he isn't here so he can correct me when he is LOL) and as we got into winter he ended up with feed rates much higher and I want to say I recall something about room Temp Mode too. 

Right now my stove is in RT mode set at 70, it's 46 out and just started dropping. The stove has been on about 3-4 times today. Once around 5:30 this morning for an hour cause I kicked it up a bit. Again mid morning near noon all on it's own. Once mid afternoon and I'd say it's due to come on any time now. The dining room has been 71-72ish all day, so it's a bit cooler over the mantel. The hopper level has hardly moved. But the trick is central heat is set to 68, last night I didn't quite hit the mark on the room temp dial for 70 and teh heat tripped on instead of the stove for one cycle.  You can't really run in Room temp and use oil together or one or the other will run rather than alternating or one helping the other. You gotta get into Stove Temp Mode when running dual fuel. At least so around here.


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## bogieb (Nov 28, 2015)

My place is small enough that a 1/1 stove temp / auto setting gets even the bedrooms to overheating after a while even when it is 18* outside. But, that isn't the dead of winter when there is tremendous cold pressure coming into the bedroom from above and below, along with heavy winds.

When I had the Hastings, in the coldest times I ran it in the mode where it would idle unless heat was called for, but the blower always was on (unlike room temp/manual - I tried it the other night with 5/4 settings and the blower went off when temp was satisfied). The Hasting's blower would go to a lower setting while idling, but it never shut off and would go back to high when the thermostat requested heat. So, it is possible that stove temp/auto has a place in the repertoire for me. Ill just have to play around when it gets cold enough to warrant it.


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 28, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Can't see a feed rate of #1 giving me enough heat on those 20-30 degree or lower days..even with the blower running constant..
> but I will try it just to prove myself wrong or right.



Let us know the results when you do...

Dan


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 28, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> You gotta get into Stove Temp Mode when running dual fuel. At least so around here.


makes sense..

Dan


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## Tonyray (Nov 28, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> makes sense..
> 
> Dan


yes..
I assume the temp probe would always be picking up the heat from say hot water baseboards [ in my case about 4 feet below the probe] and results would be a probe always being satisfied and a stove that never fires back up " in Room/auto mode"


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> Let us know the results when you do...
> 
> Dan


Indeed, I want to witness this first hand so may experiment too.Too warm out tonight though.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> yes..
> I assume the temp probe would always be picking up the heat from say hot water baseboards [ in my case about 4 feet below the probe] and results would be a probe always being satisfied and a stove that never fires back up " in Room/auto mode"


The hottest radiator in this house is about 8 ft away from the probe. The P61 radiates heat and so the stove is about 12 ft from the thermostat, though the thermostat is facing away in the next room . It just doesn't work in Room temp they fight each other..


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## alternativeheat (Nov 28, 2015)

bogieb said:


> My place is small enough that a 1/1 stove temp / auto setting gets even the bedrooms to overheating after a while even when it is 18* outside. But, that isn't the dead of winter when there is tremendous cold pressure coming into the bedroom from above and below, along with heavy winds.
> 
> When I had the Hastings, in the coldest times I ran it in the mode where it would idle unless heat was called for, but the blower always was on (unlike room temp/manual - I tried it the other night with 5/4 settings and the blower went off when temp was satisfied). The Hasting's blower would go to a lower setting while idling, but it never shut off and would go back to high when the thermostat requested heat. So, it is possible that stove temp/auto has a place in the repertoire for me. Ill just have to play around when it gets cold enough to warrant it.


I was running my p61 in stove temp auto tonight actually, I just flipped it back to Room Temp and it's shutting down presently. It's 45 out now.

Your other point is valid too Bogie, mid winter is a whole different scenario, when the whole structure is under severe cold thermal attach 24/7. That can't be compared to now, least not in this dwelling.


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## bags (Nov 28, 2015)

It does work during shoulder season with the milder colds. When it drops and more heat is required then yes, you must bump up the feed rate to accommodate the extra heating demand to maintain a comfortable temp. 

Only a minor draw back that I've experienced is some ash will want to slightly dam up in front of the burning pellets. Really doesn't affect anything. This is easily and quickly removed when you do the quick scrape and pot clean when you load a bag of pellets like I do. Or just on occasion when I feel it won't hurt or just because.

This is the most conservative in pellet use I have found. Room temp mode with manual igniter. Temp dial set at 5 or right close so the fan blows continuously ( I keep mine on high but you can pick your speed) and feed rate of 1 or slightly less but not on the red hash mark.

Not sure about stove temp because I simply do not use it but Cory has input on that. Probably much the same. BTW, my house is fairly tight but no super insulated craziness just typical stuff and lots of windows and glass doors. It is way better than some older balloon framed joints I've hung my hat in though without a doubt. On a 1 - 10 I'd give it about an 8 for insulation and envelope tightness.

When it gets real cold I do set it and forget it much the same way with feed rate somewhere between 3 to 4.


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## bags (Nov 28, 2015)

The key is to run room temp manual and find the sweet spot on the feed dial. Then just let the stove motor along at the same speed. Somewhat of a different cruise control with a governor on the carb / fuel rate. A little different than the standard set it and forget it Harman cruise control.

I know this is highly debated and contested but it works in my laboratory.................


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## Tonyray (Nov 28, 2015)

bags said:


> It does work during shoulder season with the milder colds. When it drops and more heat is required then yes, you must bump up the feed rate to accommodate the extra heating demand to maintain a comfortable temp.
> 
> Only a minor draw back that I've experienced is some ash will want to slightly dam up in front of the burning pellets. Really doesn't affect anything. This is easily and quickly removed when you do the quick scrape and pot clean when you load a bag of pellets like I do. Or just on occasion when I feel it won't hurt or just because.
> 
> ...


YEP.. Sounds about right there....


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## F4jock (Nov 28, 2015)

You guys have pretty much confirmed what I've been playing with for a couple of years. As Cory and Bags found, you can run a Harman "off label" under certain conditions by choking the feed. IMNTBHO that is probably the most efficient way to go as, with the fan running constantly, the max amount of heat goes into the room. Problem is that it takes a lot of tweaking to maintain room temp as the outside temperature varies.

After all the messing with various settings I decided that the best way to go, for me, is Room / Auto. It maintains good heat distribution with acceptable pellet use and the least attention necessary. Gotta admit that the new Platinum board does a much better job than the old one in maintaining control.


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## bogieb (Nov 28, 2015)

bags said:


> This is the most conservative in pellet use I have found. Room temp mode with manual igniter. Temp dial set at 5 or right close so the fan blows continuously ( I keep mine on high but you can pick your speed) and feed rate of 1 or slightly less but not on the red hash mark..



For some reason the P43 wouldn't cooperate the other night. Had it in room temp/manual, temp dial at 5, and the blower quit when it went to idle. Didn't need it to continue going, just remembered reading that the dial had to be 5 or above and thought it was a good time to experiment. Weird, maybe it has a slightly different control board. Or, thinking about it, maybe it is because I have it set with an in-line thermostat maybe? Or maybe I didn't give it enough chance to catch the pot change before I switched it to manual.

 It seems to me the P61a does the same thing, but maybe not as I usually have the temp dial around 4 (in room/auto). And, since it just shut down (room/auto), I won't be finding out tonight.

These things can drive one batty


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## bags (Nov 28, 2015)

When it starts complicating your life and driving you nuts then one MUST go room temp auto and adjust your temp dial to whatever de-stresses you. Time for the stove to do some thinking. That's what is nice about the set it and forget it stoves. Just feeding them once a day is about all you need to do with minimal cleaning and maintenance.


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## bags (Nov 28, 2015)

Bogieb,
I'd say that's because you have a stat in place. I just use the room probe. I'm stupid so I keep it simple.


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## F4jock (Nov 29, 2015)

Bo, did you try nudging the dial up past 5?


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## bogieb (Nov 29, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Bo, did you try nudging the dial up past 5?


I didn't think of that, will try it again with the dial at 6.



bags said:


> Bogieb,
> I'd say that's because you have a stat in place. I just use the room probe. I'm stupid so I keep it simple.


The further rooms cool off more quickly than the living room since they are over/closer to the under-house garage. Plus, the living room is over the P61a in the basement. So, the P43 (and Hastings before it) wouldn't fire as often as I would like in room/auto if I left it to the probe. The thermostat isn't in either of the bedrooms, but in my office - a nice mid-location that gets cold seepage from one side, and warm seepage from the other.


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

bags said:


> When it starts complicating your life and driving you nuts then one MUST go room temp auto and adjust your temp dial to whatever de-stresses you. Time for the stove to do some thinking. That's what is nice about the set it and forget it stoves. Just feeding them once a day is about all you need to do with minimal cleaning and maintenance.


yepper..
at least there is an alternative... pretty soon when real winter hits all this will be on mute till spring shoulder time.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 29, 2015)

[QUOTE="bags, p4.[/QUOTE]
The P61a is the same. But don't let it drive you batty !! Life's too short for batty stuff.

FWIW, Stove temp Auto you can run the fan where you like. Or I have thus far anyway, that doesn't mean I've covered every condition. But don't let it drive you batty anyway, life is too short for batty stuff going on.

My go to is always room temp auto this time of year. It's fun to experiment though.

Edit: Guess I clipped too much of the quote, in fact all of Bogies !!


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> [QUOTE="bags, p4.


The P61a is the same. But don't let it drive you batty !! Life's too short for batty stuff.

FWIW, Stove temp Auto you can run the fan where you like. Or I have thus far anyway, that doesn't mean I've covered every condition. But don't let it drive you batty anyway, life is too short for batty stuff going on.

My go to is always room temp auto this time of year. It's fun to experiment though.[/QUOTE]
do you exspirience a bit more pellet use when you use stove mode in "any" part of the season?


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## alternativeheat (Nov 29, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> The P61a is the same. But don't let it drive you batty !! Life's too short for batty stuff.
> 
> FWIW, Stove temp Auto you can run the fan where you like. Or I have thus far anyway, that doesn't mean I've covered every condition. But don't let it drive you batty anyway, life is too short for batty stuff going on.
> 
> My go to is always room temp auto this time of year. It's fun to experiment though.


do you exspirience a bit more pellet use when you use stove mode in "any" part of the season?[/QUOTE]


Depends how I run it and what is going on outside. If I had used Stove mode in the last couple of days the stove would nave been running unneeded.. For instance Thankgiving day it shut off around 10 am and never came on again till in the overnight sometime ( relatively warm day, kitchen stove and oven in operation a good part of the day). Yesterday it ran maybe 4 times all day from 5 am till 6 pm, in Room temp. It would have run all day in Stove Temp and probably heated the house above my 72 deg I've been enjoying in this season.

On Wed I had an empty hopper. I put in pellets and fired teh stove around 2 in the afternoon. Tomorrow is Monday, by 2 in the afternoon I'm going to say I will have burned 5 bags and the house has been glued on 71-72 deg  the whole, except the times I experimented with Stove Temp Mode and it went once to 75 and the other two times to 73. It's in Stove Temp Auto right now, feed rate 2, output just under 3, fan low/med. The dining room is  73.


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> do you exspirience a bit more pellet use when you use stove mode in "any" part of the season?




Depends how I run it and what is going on outside. If I had used Stove mode in the last couple of days the stove would nave been running unneeded.. For instance Thankgiving day it shut off around 10 am and never came on again till in the overnight sometime. Yesterday it ran maybe 4 times all day from 5 am till 6 pm, in Room temp. It would have run all day in Stove Temp and probably heated the house above my 72 deg I've been enjoying in this season.[/QUOTE]
how bout Flat out winter when stove is needed constant ..


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## alternativeheat (Nov 29, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> Depends how I run it and what is going on outside. If I had used Stove mode in the last couple of days the stove would nave been running unneeded.. For instance Thankgiving day it shut off around 10 am and never came on again till in the overnight sometime. Yesterday it ran maybe 4 times all day from 5 am till 6 pm, in Room temp. It would have run all day in Stove Temp and probably heated the house above my 72 deg I've been enjoying in this season.


how bout Flat out winter when stove is needed constant ..[/QUOTE]

With the stove as sole source of heat. Kind of a wash, again depends on what's happening outside. Let me just say that when it's extreme out there I'm going to burn up a bunch of pellets or not heat the house to my liking. General every day winter is a 1-1/2 -2 bag per 24 hour thing. If I set the stove in Stove mode to do what I want  or if I want that to automate pretty much comes to a draw. The trick, is no guess work in Room Temp Auto, and it does a good job of feeling out the changing conditions. Now like this year where I probably will burn some oil, I can set the stove to be a one bag per day burn and let the oil pick up the slack, by using Stove Temp Mode.

I should add that by letting the oil fill in a bit, the oil burner really doesn't run much and it will still be a 1 bag day vs maybe a 3 bag day in severe cold. The extra heat of the stove really stretches  the cycle times of the oil burner. And contrary to what people try to do by turning the oil down, I turn it up !! Because it's being off set by the stove. But I have cast iron radiators, they continue to radiate for quite a while after the burner shuts down. Obviously  if i want the stove alone to heat the house I turn the burner thermostat down.


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> how bout Flat out winter when stove is needed constant ..



With the stove as sole source of heat. Kind of a wash, again depends on what's happening outside. Let me just say that when it's extreme out there I'm going to burn up a bunch of pellets or not heat the house to my liking. General every day winter is a 1-1/2 -2 bag per 24 hour thing. if I set the stove in Stove mode to do what I want  or if I want that to automate pretty much comes to a draw. The trick, is no guess work in Room Temp Auto, and it does a good job of felling out the changing conditions. Now like this year where I probably will burn some oil, I can set the stove to be a one bag per day burn and let the oikl pick up the slack, by using Stove Temp Mode.[/QUOTE]
understand...
I have never tried to use both systems..
have a hard time wrapping my head around using both oil and pellets [especially when using say stove mode with the oil thermostat set to pick up slack as u say.
in that scenario with stove temp always on to some degree, I'm burning pellets and Oil at same time..
on paper it appears counter $$$$productive. my brain is telling me to use one or the other. not both at same time but I'm sure this works for you.. might also for me if/when I try that way.


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## bogieb (Nov 29, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Bo, did you try nudging the dial up past 5?


This morning I made sure the P43's temp dial was just past 6 (I was running at just past 5  since it is running on the thermostat). Flipped it to room/manual and later it went to an idle and the blower shut down. Must be the thermostat thing. Doesn't really bother me any, just interesting that it is contrary to what others experience. And, just want to figure out if both stoves react the same with same settings

Naturally I keep forgetting to catch the P61 when it is firing. Hmm, think I hear pellets dropping form the basement so it should start pretty soon, I'll try to keep focus long enough to conduct this little experiment. Oh look, something shin . . , er Stove, I must go tend stove, shiny, NO - stove dang it


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## bogieb (Nov 29, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Naturally I keep forgetting to catch the P61 when it is firing. Hmm, think I hear pellets dropping form the basement so it should start pretty soon, I'll try to keep focus long enough to conduct this little experiment. Oh look, something shin . . , er Stove, I must go tend stove, shiny, NO - stove dang it



Ha - caught it as it torched (I love a good show). Waited for the blower to come on, set the dial to 6 and flipped to manual. We'll see what this one does


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## alternativeheat (Nov 29, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> With the stove as sole source of heat. Kind of a wash, again depends on what's happening outside. Let me just say that when it's extreme out there I'm going to burn up a bunch of pellets or not heat the house to my liking. General every day winter is a 1-1/2 -2 bag per 24 hour thing. if I set the stove in Stove mode to do what I want  or if I want that to automate pretty much comes to a draw. The trick, is no guess work in Room Temp Auto, and it does a good job of felling out the changing conditions. Now like this year where I probably will burn some oil, I can set the stove to be a one bag per day burn and let the oikl pick up the slack, by using Stove Temp Mode.


understand...
I have never tried to use both systems..
have a hard time wrapping my head around using both oil and pellets [especially when using say stove mode with the oil thermostat set to pick up slack as u say.
in that scenario with stove temp always on to some degree, I'm burning pellets and Oil at same time..
on paper it appears counter $$$$productive. my brain is telling me to use one or the other. not both at same time but I'm sure this works for you.. might also for me if/when I try that way.[/QUOTE]


Well it's ingrained in me, we burned coal ( radiant only) early on knowing it was to help out and if the season was right then no oil.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 29, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Ha - caught it as it torched (I love a good show). Waited for the blower to come on, set the dial to 6 and flipped to manual. We'll see what this one does


Let it settle down from the start up overload of pellets.


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## F4jock (Nov 29, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> understand...
> I have never tried to use both systems..
> have a hard time wrapping my head around using both oil and pellets [especially when using say stove mode with the oil thermostat set to pick up slack as u say.
> in that scenario with stove temp always on to some degree, I'm burning pellets and Oil at same time..
> on paper it appears counter $$$$productive. my brain is telling me to use one or the other. not both at same time but I'm sure this works for you.. might also for me if/when I try that way.



I found that setting the oil four degrees lower than the pellet gives me good backup operation. Pellet controls at 69 /70 and oil 65 / 66.

In the bedrooms, as we like it cooler, I keep the temp at 68 during the day and 66 at night. Good snuggling!

At those settings I never noticed the systems fighting each other but I've had no success when I've tried to use on or the other system as a "helper."


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## bogieb (Nov 29, 2015)

So, the P61a does keep the blower going as long as the temp dial is at 5 while in room/manual. So, that argues the possibility that the way the P43 acts (fan wise) is due to being hooked up to a thermostat. I will just have to keep that in mind when it gets deep into winter - that each stove reacts differently. Maybe one day I will be so curious (or bored) that I will disconnect the thermostat and test out the P43 again, but I don't see it happening soon.


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

bogieb said:


> So, the P61a does keep the blower going as long as the temp dial is at 5 while in room/manual. So, that argues the possibility that the way the P43 acts (fan wise) is due to being hooked up to a thermostat. I will just have to keep that in mind when it gets deep into winter - that each stove reacts differently. Maybe one day I will be so curious (or bored) that I will disconnect the thermostat and test out the P43 again, but I don't see it happening soon.


just curious to what  fan speed your all using while the fan is constant and temp is set to 5 with the low feed rate..


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## F4jock (Nov 29, 2015)

bogieb said:


> So, the P61a does keep the blower going as long as the temp dial is at 5 while in room/manual. So, that argues the possibility that the way the P43 acts (fan wise) is due to being hooked up to a thermostat. I will just have to keep that in mind when it gets deep into winter - that each stove reacts differently. Maybe one day I will be so curious (or bored) that I will disconnect the thermostat and test out the P43 again, but I don't see it happening soon.


I would say yes Bo, that seems to be the difference in the equation. The thermostat will break and this will likely end up turning off the fan.

I considered installing a separate thermostat but extended the probe far enough away from the stove so that it worked fine. For my purposes anyway.


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

F4jock said:


> I would say yes Bo, that seems to be the difference in the equation. The thermostat will break and this will likely end up turning off the fan.
> 
> I considered installing a separate thermostat but extended the probe far enough away from the stove so that it worked fine. For my purposes anyway.


I have been using stove or constant/auto all day.. feed at 1/half, temp at #5.. blower set at half way..
dist blower has not shut off all day... 1st time I have used stove mode since I had the stove.. keeping us plenty warm..
we will see how it goes..


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## Cory S (Nov 29, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I have been using stove or constant/auto all day.. feed at 1/half, temp at #5.. blower set at half way..
> dist blower has not shut off all day... 1st time I have used stove mode since I had the stove.. keeping us plenty warm..
> we will see how it goes..


If you are in constant burn auto, the distribution fan always runs.  If you turn down the temp down lower, there should be no change in auger cycle time, and the heat output should be the same.  I keep my temp dial at 2, and regulate the heat output (auger cycle "on" time) with varying the feed rate from 1-2....


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## Tonyray (Nov 29, 2015)

Cory S said:


> If you are in constant burn auto, the distribution fan always runs.  If you turn down the temp down lower, there should be no change in auger cycle time, and the heat output should be the same.  I keep my temp dial at 2, and regulate the heat output (auger cycle "on" time) with varying the feed rate from 1-2....


so why use room/auto compared to stove auto if the plan is to keep the dist blower going all the time.?


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## Cory S (Nov 29, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> so why use room/auto compared to stove auto if the plan is to keep the dist blower going all the time.?


Stove (constant mode) runs continuously, where auto uses the desired room temperature input.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> so why use room/auto compared to stove auto if the plan is to keep the dist blower going all the time.?


 Room temp will vary with the weather if the stove even runs or not. Satisfy the temp setting  ( which would not be 5 by the way, it would be about 76deg in Room Temp) and the stove goes into shut down till heat is called for again.. Stove Temp never shuts down.

I'm running in Stove Temp right now, it's 35 out and I have it set at Stove temp 3-1/2 feed rate 2 medium to high fan. It's warming the house nicely on a steady rise from overnight running at 70 in room temp Mode with a low fan ( was a bit cool upstairs that way). It would have to be pretty cold out to run in Stove Temp 5 or Room Temp 76 for that matter. Obviously the limiter is the feed rate, it just makes for a longer slower recovery.. Because you're not running a p61 anymore but maybe a P24 if they made such a thing.. And it's outputting constantly.


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## Cory S (Nov 30, 2015)

Stove (constant burn) mode is epic.....  It's like running a woodstove without the mess...  Turn a dial up a little or down a little.  Nothing but win... It takes at least 8-12 hours for a huge drop in outside temperature to affect the inside temperature in my home.  Example:  Temp was 67.5* inside yesterday from 8am to 7pm...  Outside temp dropped to about 27* from 39* throughout the day/evening.  Temp was 66* inside at 10pm, 65* at 2am, and 64.5* at 3:30am today.  Had the wifey turn the feed rate dial up just 1/2 increment to 1.5   Stove will slowly bring temp back to about 66.5 within about 3 hours or so and hang there, as long as the temperature outside is between 20-30*.  I keep the stove just lightly chugging along.  Pellet consumption has been a mere 25-33lb/day range (when I run the stove) since the beginning of October.  Started bag #21 yesterday.  Tried Room temperature mode, and hated it.  The flare ups and cool downs use more pellets period.  Constant BTU output at bare minimum (if you want to keep pellet consumption fairly low) to maintain comfort and its smooth and steady.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Stove (constant burn) mode is epic.....  It's like running a woodstove without the mess...  Turn a dial up a little or down a little.  Nothing but win... It takes at least 8-12 hours for a huge drop in outside temperature to affect the inside temperature in my home.  Example:  Temp was 67.5* inside yesterday from 8am to 7pm...  Outside temp dropped to about 27* from 39* throughout the day/evening.  Temp was 66* inside at 10pm, 65* at 2am, and 64.5* at 3:30am today.  Had the wifey turn the feed rate dial up just 1/2 increment to 1.5   Stove will slowly bring temp back to about 66.5 within about 3 hours or so and hang there, as long as the temperature outside is between 20-30*.  I keep the stove just lightly chugging along.  Pellet consumption has been a mere 25-33lb/day range (when I run the stove) since the beginning of October.  Started bag #21 yesterday.  Tried Room temperature mode, and hated it.  The flare ups and cool downs use more pellets period.  Constant BTU output at bare minimum (if you want to keep pellet consumption fairly low) to maintain comfort and its smooth and steady.


That's one way of looking at it. Another is , in room temp mode my living and dining room have been at 71-72 deg since last Wed day and night, 24/7 and would remain there all winter if I never touch the dial. And the oil burner kicked on exactly once because I did touch the dial and didn't quite set it back to where I keep it at. And another is , I don't care for a house wandering all over the place on temp and I don't like a 64 deg house either. I like steady temps. In the morning I like it a tad warmer as I get up and about.. I have a choice, play with Stove temp or turn up the temp dial for an hour or so. Right now I'm playing with stove temp because later in the winter I intend to run dual fuel and the only really successful way of doing that is in Stove Temp mode, so I'm getting more familiar with it..


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## bogieb (Nov 30, 2015)

This entire discussion is full of win, showing how different people, with different houses, and different likes/dislikes can set a Harman the way that works best for them.

Cory's house looses heat slowly, mine loses heat quickly. At the same time Cory evidently can turn off his stove during the day if he wishes. I leave before 5am, and the sun doesn't start heating the place up until between 10 and noon (assuming the weather guessers haven't messed up the forecast and I know if the sun will be out). 5-7 hours of heat loss is way too much, especially if there is wind, so I can't turn the stove off before leaving for work. However, I do get good solar gain until 3 or 4, so don't need the stove going then and the place will get really hot, even at the lowest setting - which means I would be wasting pellets.

So, at this point I prefer that the stove does it's own thing in room/auto. During the deep of winter, my house doesn't hold heat at all, so I will use some sort of constant heat method (room/manual or stove/auto) - actually my two stoves may not be in the same modes from the experimenting I have done.

This has been a very informative and thought inducing thread - thanks to everyone for participating and sharing their experiences! v


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Cory S said:


> If you are in constant burn auto, the distribution fan always runs.  If you turn down the temp down lower, there should be no change in auger cycle time, and the heat output should be the same.  I keep my temp dial at 2, and regulate the heat output (auger cycle "on" time) with varying the feed rate from 1-2....


That will do it but, a I said, I'm lazy and prefer to let the board do the work. I monitor room temp at the oil burner thermostat about 25 feet from the stove. It is 70 when the stove ramps down to off and 69 when it restarts. Perfect for the way the wife and I like it and the distribution blower ramps up and down to off accordingly. We like that as well because the thing can be annoying when it's on 24/7.

Last night it hit 21f. Stove still cycled off when it hit 70 inside. BTW what is the Constant Burn / Auto setting? Is that the equivalent of Stove Temp / Auto? My Accentra Insert is,about eight years old and doesn't have that cycle.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> BTW what is the Constant Burn / Auto setting? Is that the equivalent of Stove Temp / Auto? .



Yes it is.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

bogieb said:


> Cory's house looses heat slowly, mine loses heat quickly. At the same time Cory evidently can turn off his stove during the day if he wishes.



Now see when it comes to saving pellets there is no single setting or arrangement of settings that can possibly beat a stove that is shut off for a good portion of the day. .


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

Cory S said:


> Stove (constant mode) runs continuously, where auto uses the desired room temperature input.


that was dumb... sorry.. knew that.. duh..
bottom line is I know in my house of windows[yes they are double pane Insulated] my heat loss is still greater when the stove shuts off[room/auto]... fortunately we get great sun from the East [Naturally] so most daytimes I can get away with room/auto mode....
going into 3rd season now and it's looking more like I should have been using Stove or constant on those very cold days.  more like alternativeheats settings in post above.
 this thread I agree has been one of the most informative in some time for me..... 1st 2 seasons I Concentrated more on types of pellets and trying to find out how to use the least amount but I;m pretty savy  about what to burn and know now what works best.. lotta help you people have been this past week on this thread..


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Thing I like about Room / Auto even in the coldest weather is that the heat from the double-pane South-facing window-wall in the great room (I personally think South is best in the winter as the Sun "retreats" to that heading.) warms the place to the point where the stove spends more off time than on. Gotta think that this saves me fuel over a constant-on setting. As well, it allows better temp control I'd say because even with the distribution blower off and the stove banked down I'd still be getting radiant heat when it was not needed.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> that was dumb... sorry.. knew that.. duh..
> bottom line is I know in my house of windows[yes they are double pane Insulated] my heat loss is still greater when the stove shuts off[room/auto]... fortunately we get great sun from the East [Naturally] so most daytimes I can get away with room/auto mode....
> going into 3rd season now and it's looking more like I should have been using Stove or constant on those very cold days.  more like alternativeheats settings in post above.
> this thread I agree has been one of the most informative in some time for me..... 1st 2 seasons I Concentrated more on types of pellets and trying to find out how to use the least amount but I;m pretty savy  about what to burn and know now what works best.. lotta help you people have been this past week on this thread..


Tony, I mostly run in Room temp mode. Not sure what you read above. A big difference in my house is sun from late Jan on in the afternoon, it heats up the Achilles heal of this house, the south side. And the fan speed. If I want heat upstairs I have to go with high fan. But this year oil is fairly low  in cost so I will mix fuels later on. That requires stove temp mode. Combining the two heats evens the house up and sips both fuels.

So happens today I've had it in Stove Temp all morning, I gave it a boost this morning and now cut it back to feed rate 2, temp 3 and fan high. The dining room is 72. It's almost 10:30 now and some sun peaking through, though it's rather weak in Nov/Dec I'll probably switch back to Room temp around 11oclock. But Stove Temp is not my normal running mode, Room temp much more likely here.. I'm experimenting !


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## Golfeur (Nov 30, 2015)

My house is heated by electricity and a Harman P68
If I want my stove is heated the whole house but I work with 2 way heated together.
Let me explain my situation. The price of electricity works this way the first 30 kw / h are at a price of kw / h and the rest of consumption kw / h at a higher price. I try to take as many kw / h remaining at the bottom of 30kw / h because the price of electricity is less expensive than pellets. So in summary the heat requirement exceeded 30kw / h is filled by the stove. The stove is stove temp / automatic and the feed rate according to my needs and the distribution maximum fan


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 30, 2015)

I've had my new stove (P68) running now for a couple of weeks.
This thread is making my head spin.....







Did room/auto... seemed to start up a little late,
and flame was like "wow" when it did..
Right now in room/manual..
Cold night, will try stove/auto..
Dan


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

I have to say about running in Stove temp Auto with a low feed rate of 2 and output of about 3-1/2. I'm getting light fluffy ash with just average pellets, so I'd say it's a pretty complete burn.

Right now, this minute it's 32 out. the house is almost 74 in this setting. I've been running it like this this evening, so maybe a couple of hours now.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> I have to say about running in Stove temp Auto with a low feed rate of 2 and output of about 3-1/2. I'm getting light fluffy ash with just average pellets, so I'd say it's a pretty complete burn.
> 
> Right now, this minute it's 32 out. the house is almost 74 in this setting. I've been running it like this this evening, so maybe a couple of hours now.


thought I read where u use stove mode at times  [but not exclusive].. but, splitting hairs at this point.
well, had it on Stove auto since this morning when I left at 8am.
feed rate 2/ #5 temps/low fan... stopped home to let the dog out and it was close to 80 degrees at the stove room thermostat around 15 feet away..
low 40's outside most of the day... deff alot warmer than I wanted but good to see that steady fan whether room or stove mode has some teeth as they say..
now for tomorrow I need to make it less warm.. might just use room/auto since we're still a distance from full bore heat days.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> thought I read where u use stove mode at times  [but not exclusive].. but, splitting hairs at this point.
> well, had it on Stove auto since this morning when I left at 8am.
> feed rate 2/ #5 temps/low fan... stopped home to let the dog out and it was close to 80 degrees at the stove room thermostat around 15 feet away..
> low 40's outside most of the day... deff alot warmer than I wanted but good to see that steady fan whether room or stove mode has some teeth as they say..
> now for tomorrow I need to make it less warm.. might just use room/auto since we're still a distance from full bore heat days.


Ya I mess with it from time to time. Seems I give it a shot each shoulder season. Plus it's kind of nostalgic, the first overnight fire was in stove Temp mode with this stove.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Ya I mess with it from time to time. Seems I give it a shot each shoulder season. Plus it's kind of nostalgic, the first overnight fire was in stove Temp mode with this stove.


well, I have shyed away from stove mode 1st 2 pellet seasons but it is going to be a serious contender this winter.
I really need steady blowing heat in my house at 30 degrees or lower days/nites unless I parlay with oil also.. too much heat loss when stove idles with No blower..


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> I have to say about running in Stove temp Auto with a low feed rate of 2 and output of about 3-1/2. I'm getting light fluffy ash with just average pellets, so I'd say it's a pretty complete burn.


What does your flame look like compared to your avatar?


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> I have to say about running in Stove temp Auto with a low feed rate of 2 and output of about 3-1/2. I'm getting light fluffy ash with just average pellets, so I'd say it's a pretty complete burn.
> 
> Right now, this minute it's 32 out. the house is almost 74 in this setting. I've been running it like this this evening, so maybe a couple of hours now.


Curious. What is the difference between Stove /Auto and Stove / Manual? The way I understood stove temp was that it essentially maintained the stove at a certain temperature no matter what, in other words regardless of any outside influence, so I can't see where Auto or Manual would make a difference in Stove mode.


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I really need steady blowing heat in my house at 30 degrees or lower days/nites..
> too much heat loss when stove idles with No blower..



1895 house here... I hear that!

Dan


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 30, 2015)

F4... I thought I read where in manual, the fan will not run below a #4 or 5 setting..
it will run on auto...
No experience with it personally..... yet..

Dan


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> thought I read where u use stove mode at times  [but not exclusive].. but, splitting hairs at this point.
> well, had it on Stove auto since this morning when I left at 8am.
> feed rate 2/ #5 temps/low fan... stopped home to let the dog out and it was close to 80 degrees at the stove room thermostat around 15 feet away..
> low 40's outside most of the day... deff alot warmer than I wanted but good to see that steady fan whether room or stove mode has some teeth as they say..
> now for tomorrow I need to make it less warm.. might just use room/auto since we're still a distance from full bore heat days.



So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> 1895 house here... I hear that!
> 
> Dan


when we cut a hole in the wall here for the stove exhaust, [1917 house],
there was no insulation in the exterior wall..with all the windows I have there is almost  less wall than glass so any insulation there even blow-in would not
make any signigcant difference... someone built this house when it was either using coal ot oil was 7 cents/gal.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> What does your flame look like compared to your avatar?


My flame is different than my avatar anyway Pete. I trimmed back the combustion blower last year because I was getting a bit too lively a flame, it had white peaks. I rather thought the stove was over drafting a bit. So  I trimmed it so it's a little more even over the width of the burn pot. Less than 1/4 turn of the screw. Been running great ( shoots himself in foot !!)


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> F4... I thought I read where in manual, the fan will not run below a #4 or 5 setting..
> it will run on auto...
> No experience with it personally..... yet..
> 
> Dan



Have to admit that I have close to zero experience in Stove mode but from what I remember the fan ran the same way in either Stove Auto or Manual. Above five it was on,


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


Stove Manual when set under about output 4 on my P61 shuts down the distribution blower. Auto does not, and auto allows full speed which I can use to get heat upstairs.


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## Golfeur (Nov 30, 2015)

automatic stove fan always operates regardless of the temperature setting and manual fan stove run and stops


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


well, room works off the wire probe, stove off of the ESP probe in the exhaust...
in room/manual there is a chance of the dist blower shutting off IF the room probe picks up enough heat in that room which after a while enough heat could build up to do that.. stove/auto will NOT stop blowing regardless.. my 80 degree downstairs proved that to me today when I popped in today around 3..


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


Stove Manual when set under about output 4 on my P61 shuts down the distribution blower. My stove generate enough heat at five that I think it defaults to distribution blower on. At least that was the case with normal feed rate settings.  Auto does not, and auto allows full speed which I can use to get heat upstairs.


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Golfeur said:


> automatic stove fan always operates regardless of the temperature setting and manual fan stove run and stops


I guess I need to play with these modes more.


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Does it vary or just run constantly?


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## Pete Zahria (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


as long as it's above #5...
Below that, no fan...
They call it fireplace mode..

Dan

edit:
I probly should not be responding... I have not confirmed this on my own stove.
Hell... I just put it in!)


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> well, room works off the wire probe, stove off of the ESP probe in the exhaust...
> in room/manual there is a chance of the dist blower shutting off IF the room probe picks up enough heat in that room which after a while enough heat could build up to do that.. stove/auto will NOT stop blowing regardless..



Now I'm totally confused. When I'm in Room / Auto. which is my preferred mode, the fan varies as the temperature delta increases / decreases. At times it, and the stove, totally shut off. When I was in Room / Manual the fan either ran when set above 5 or was off when below 5.


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## Golfeur (Nov 30, 2015)

down 5 Temp if the pan gets too hot the fan distribution run to cool the stove and then stopped


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> as long as it's above #5...
> Below that, no fan...
> They call it fireplace mode..
> 
> ...


Pete, I think you are correct. Somewhere in the deep recesses of my mind I remember the Fireplace Mode thing.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> when we cut a hole in the wall here for the stove exhaust, [1917 house],
> there was no insulation in the exterior wall..with all the windows I have there is almost  less wall than glass so any insulation there even blow-in would not
> make any signigcant difference... someone built this house when it was either using coal ot oil was 7 cents/gal.


No insulation you might just be better off in Stove Temp Mode Auto, full speed fan. It will take a little time to get your settings how you like them, but ya that constant output in your case might do the trick. We have moderate insulation here and at times Stove Temp works for us. Like a SW wind but cold out for instance.


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## bogieb (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> So apparently Stove / Auto is no different from Stove / Manual.


So sometimes my stoves act differently than others., but with the P43 (pre-thermostat) Stove / manual - the room fan would not come on at low dial settings like #1 with a feed rate of 1 (I think Harman calls that fireplace mode or some such thing). With Stove / auto, the room blower will stay at what I set it at (low, high, in between), even at the super low dial settings.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Now I'm totally confused. When I'm in Room / Auto. which is my preferred mode, the fan varies as the temperature delta increases / decreases. At times it, and the stove, totally shut off. When I was in Room / Manual the fan either ran when set above 5 or was off when below 5.


Yeah that's Room Temp, I mostly run there, in mid winter I run in Room Manual. But this house requires enough output the fan doesn't slow much in the cold weather. Stove is similar but different than Room Temp. All I can say is try it and prove it to yourself. I've been experimenting for 5 days now, having kind of a good time !!


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Weeelllllll. . . . . 

I guess I'm gonna have to make an Excel spreadsheet and start messing with different settings in all modes so I can nail this down. Sounds like a project for the depths of January / February.


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## bogieb (Nov 30, 2015)

Golfeur said:


> down 5 Temp if the pan gets too hot the fan distribution run to cool the stove and then stopped


I think it has to do with if the ESP gets too hot, it runs the distribution fan to cool off the stove while keeping the feed rate where you set it. In room/auto, it seems to me as if the ESP is taken out of the equation entirely (except for proof of fire).


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Yeah that's Room Temp, I mostly run there, in mid winter I run in Room Manual. But this house requires enough output the fan doesn't slow much in the cold weather. Stove is similar but different than Room Temp. All I can say is try it and prove it to yourself. I've been experimenting for 5 days now, having kind of a good time !!


One interesting thing I've noticed with the new Platinum board. The stove seems to reach temperature and shut down far more easily than it did with the old one. Even with the temperature at 22 degrees this morning the stove was satisfied.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Now I'm totally confused. When I'm in Room / Auto. which is my preferred mode, the fan varies as the temperature delta increases / decreases. At times it, and the stove, totally shut off. When I was in Room / Manual the fan either ran when set above 5 or was off when below 5.



sorry, I thought you wanted to know difference between room and auto but I see it's STOVE auto and Stove manual. btw: your stove is running normal at those different modes you described.
Stove Manual is when you want an Ambiance setting but No Heat big flame depending on feed # but distribution blower does NOT come on.. called Fireplace Mode in the Manual.
Must put it Past #5 for the dist blower to come on... most never use that mode in conjuction with actual heat dispursement.  a few may but that will just throw another mode in and confuse the heck out of all of us. yikes..   3 better modes to choose.
Heating is room/auto/manual or Stove Auto..
sounds to me that your content with room/auto.


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

To the best of my memory the ESP is never totally out of the mix as I believe it controls max exhaust temp.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

bogieb said:


> So sometimes my stoves act differently than others., but with the P43 (pre-thermostat) Stove / manual - the room fan would not come on at low dial settings like #1 with a feed rate of 1 (I think Harman calls that fireplace mode or some such thing). With Stove / auto, the room blower will stay at what I set it at (low, high, in between), even at the super low dial settings.


That would be about correct Bo. On my P61, an output setting  of 4 or below in Stove manual shuts off the room blower. I don't think the feed rate matters. it's supposed to be under 5 but I think my stove is outputting too much for that to happen with reliability and the fan come on here and there to cool it down. But that too was at normal feed rates of 3-1/2-4. I haven't tried that on lower feed rates.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> To the best of my memory the ESP is never totally out of the mix as I believe it controls max exhaust temp.


Correct.


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Right now I'm shutting down, the stove is almost off. i won't have sufficient pellets to conclude my testing till Wed.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Right now I'm shutting down, the stove is almost off. i won't have sufficient pellets to conclude my testing till Wed.


I can UPS you some..


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## Golfeur (Nov 30, 2015)

Bobleg is what I wanted to say you're right


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I can UPS you some..


Great ! No HD should have some, if not TSC will.


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## Tonyray (Nov 30, 2015)

F4jock said:


> To the best of my memory the ESP is never totally out of the mix as I believe it controls max exhaust temp.


correct also. but somethings u don't know there won't change anything.. just trying to simplify it all for ya without the complete scientific end of it..
Wow.. what a great thread.. gotta go see who started it days ago..


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## alternativeheat (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> I can UPS you some..


Great ! No HD should have some, if not TSC will.

Signing out now, I'm going upstairs to read.


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

When we were considering which forms of alternative heat to use we decided on pellets due to lower maintainance and the ability to ramp totally off and auto-restart. As well, it seems that the wife and I like it cooler than most here, another reason that Room / Auto works best for us. If we ran in Stove mode we'd roast ourselves out or have to play with the settings too often.


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## F4jock (Nov 30, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> correct also. but somethings u don't know there won't change anything.. just trying to simplify it all for ya without the complete scientific end of it..
> Wow.. what a great thread.. gotta go see who started it days ago..



I think I'm guilty Tony.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Dec 1, 2015)

Hasn't this run it's course, BB?......


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## alternativeheat (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Hasn't this run it's course, BB?......


I don't know but I have a question for you though 007. You have two Harman stoves, do you run them both at once and do you run them both in RTA ?


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## Tonyray (Dec 1, 2015)

F4jock said:


> To the best of my memory the ESP is never totally out of the mix as I believe it controls max exhaust temp.


correct also. but somethings u don't know there won't change anything.. just trying to simplify it all for ya without the complete scientific end of it..
Wow.. what a great thread.. gotta go see who started it days ago..


Harman Lover 007 said:


> Hasn't this run it's course, BB?......


prob just about there I assume.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Dec 1, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> I don't know but I have a question for you though 007. You have two Harman stoves, do you run them both at once and do you run them both in RTA ?


My stoves are in two different locations, one in Mass, the other in Maine. The Invincible is a dinosaur (by most standards) and is a manually operated stove. My P61A runs in RTA in the shoulder seasons and RTM when the heart of winter sets in. Both FR are set at 4. I have resisted the urge to get involved in this thread and now we are 158 posts deep. Those of us who have been here for a few years know that this RTA/RTM debate comes up every year. It gets debated ad nauseum. To each his own as everyone's individual situation is different. Having said that, this practice of screwing with the feed rate to get what you want is ill advised. Harmans aren't supposed to be run that way, period. I'm fine with those of you that want to do it, but so many new and inexperienced users read these threads and take them as gospel and could easily get into trouble by following some of the advice and opinions written here. As stated above, I think this one has run its course.


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## alternativeheat (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> My stoves are in two different locations, one in Mass, the other in Maine. The Invincible is a dinosaur (by most standards) and is a manually operated stove. My P61A runs in RTA in the shoulder seasons and RTM when the heart of winter sets in. Both FR are set at 4. I have resisted the urge to get involved in this thread and now we are 158 posts deep. Those of us who have been here for a few years know that this RTA/RTM debate comes up every year. It gets debated ad nauseum. To each his own as everyone's individual situation is different. Having said that, this practice of screwing with the feed rate to get what you want is ill advised. Harmans aren't supposed to be run that way, period. I'm fine with those of you that want to do it, but so many new and inexperienced users read these threads and take them as gospel and could easily get into trouble by following some of the advice and opinions written here. As stated above, I think this one has run its course.


I get sucked in every Fall LOL, then run as I run all winter, RTM generally. However, one is led to wonder why Harman would put such a range of numbers on their feed rate dial if all that is to be used is 3-5 and anything else is detrimental to what ever end.

RTA works pretty well for me all in all, generally my feed is pretty much set as yours is. OK you are for shutting down the thread, I'll back off for now and see where it goes.


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Hasn't this run it's course, BB?......


Why?
Has there been a definitive answer?
Have there been rude, inflammatory comments?
As a new to Harman pellet stove user,
I am enjoying the different comments and suggestions.

It's now the beginning of the winter season, and most people here
you can tell, have perked up and are glad to be talkin' pellets...

Any time I see a thread that I don't care about,
I simply don't open it up....... YMMV, of course.

It's better than talking about how dumb it is to use pellets......


Dan


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## alternativeheat (Dec 1, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> Why?
> Has there been a definitive answer?
> Have there been rude, inflammatory comments?
> As a new to Harman pellet stove user,
> ...


He's been around a few years, knows his stoves inside and out. And yes this comes up every year, usually by relatively new users and when all is said and done the same conclusions are reached. How he operates his stoves is basically how, most of the time, I operate mine but I have to say I did learn a couple of things from this thread too. Reinforced some things as well..


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 1, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> He's been around a few years, knows his stoves inside and out.


I get it. I'm not there yet..


> but I have to say I did learn a couple of things from this thread too.


Well my point was, someone like me, with about 15 bags through a brand new stove,
appreciates the posts/threads.
Like I said, if a thread is of no interest, or too boring,
I'll never figure why people feel compelled to open it.



Dan


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## alternativeheat (Dec 1, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> I get it. I'm not there yet..
> 
> Well my point was, someone like me, with about 15 bags through a brand new stove,
> appreciates the posts/threads.
> ...


Ya I get it. It's been interesting actually, I've followed it from the get go even if I don't agree with all that has been said.


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## F4jock (Dec 1, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> I get it. I'm not there yet..
> 
> Well my point was, someone like me, with about 15 bags through a brand new stove,
> appreciates the posts/threads.
> ...


He's just cranky because he recently came across a problem he hasn't yet been able to solve.

Frankly I'm enjoying the discussion and still getting something out of it.


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## bogieb (Dec 1, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> Why?
> Has there been a definitive answer?
> Have there been rude, inflammatory comments?
> As a new to Harman pellet stove user,
> ...


That was my reaction too. I think there are several people learning things, and thinking of ways to use the "4th method" that isn't ever addressed in the manual (or at least not the manuals I have). This isn't even a debate - but respectful discussion and explanations of what people are using and have found in their experimentation. I find it odd that the person to aver a definitive


Harman Lover 007 said:


> Having said that, this practice of screwing with the feed rate to get what you want is ill advised. Harmans aren't supposed to be run that way, period.


 , is the person that says the thread has run its course (although there has been no participation by said person until now in this respectful discourse).

I guess my mistake was thinking this forum was for all levels of experience - I didn't realize that we shouldn't discuss anything a newbie might not find in black and white in the manual.


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## Harman Lover 007 (Dec 1, 2015)

F4jock said:


> He's just cranky because he recently came across a problem he hasn't yet been able to solve.


.......yet....


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## F4jock (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> .......yet....


Told ya. Board.


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## alternativeheat (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> .......yet....


Put it in feed rate 1 Stove Temp Auto output 5, some here think that cures everything LOL !

Just kidding guys, don't arm the firing squad !


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## Tonyray (Dec 1, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Put it in feed rate 1 Stove Temp Auto output 5, some here think that cures everything LOL !
> 
> Just kidding guys, don't arm the firing squad !


 a year or so from now some newbie will find this thread and learn alot.. what to do and what Not to do..
when I got my stove  I Spent a few weeks reading almost every post from years gone from day 1 just to educate myself on my new Appliance.
and the thread goes on........


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 1, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> a year or so from now some newbie will find this thread and learn alot


True.
But the value of doing it whenever... is that like all things,
there are periodic changes, improvements, or the opposite to products.
I would never have known about different boards,
or 12 fins, 15 fins, shark fins, whatever..
or in some cases "built prior to's" or things of that nature,
if not for reading about them here...

Dan


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## Harman Lover 007 (Dec 1, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Told ya. Board.


Brand new stove, 2 weeks old, not ready to condemn the Board yet. I don't want to get off track so the thread on that subject is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/brand-new-harman-p43-question.149252/


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## F4jock (Dec 1, 2015)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Brand new stove, 2 weeks old, not ready to condemn the Board yet. I don't want to get off track so the thread on that subject is here:
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/brand-new-harman-p43-question.149252/


It's cool.


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## Tonyray (Dec 1, 2015)

F4jock said:


> When we were considering which forms of alternative heat to use we decided on pellets due to lower maintainance and the ability to ramp totally off and auto-restart. As well, it seems that the wife and I like it cooler than most here, another reason that Room / Auto works best for us. If we ran in Stove mode we'd roast ourselves out or have to play with the settings too often.


Another way to look at it... good point.... room/auto works for me on not cold days...I lose too much heat to use it in brrrr weather.


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## Tonyray (Dec 1, 2015)

Cory S said:


> It will always be less pellet consumption with the feed rate lower.... Run it as low as you can, while still maintaining your comfort level.  My feed rate is more controlling over stove output than the temperature dial will ever be.  Doesn't matter if it's on room temp or stove temp.   I never need go over 2 on the feed rate.  Never consume more than 32-38lbs a day...


do u notice any difference is things like maybe more ash or a dirtier stove?
always been drilled to us that lower feed will gunk up the stove but maybe not when constant feed and burn are at play.
I know the stop/go of normal room auto makes lot of ash.


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 1, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> room/auto works for me on not cold days...I lose too much heat to use it in brrrr weather.


This is what I am expecting out of it, too.....
When the weather was mild last week, the stove shut off, and started up,
just like you would expect... but the colder nights, it's been on room/manual, just so there is
always "some" heat coming up.
REALLY cold weather, I think I an going to want medium-medium_high heat/constantly!

Dan


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## alternativeheat (Dec 2, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> This is what I am expecting out of it, too.....
> When the weather was mild last week, the stove shut off, and started up,
> just like you would expect... but the colder nights, it's been on room/manual, just so there is
> always "some" heat coming up.
> ...


Here is the deal, you want heat you need BTU, to make BTU you burn more fuel. It's really that simple. My p61 in that really cold weather takes care of the distribution fan itself in Room Temp Manual, even set on medium it will often cycle up on high. As the weather gets colder the stove picks up the pace. I will say though, I get more even heat through the house with a higher revving fan constantly. The owner just has to add more pellets and I'll tell you what, with oil now at $`1.82 that I saw yesterday locally, this is the time  "For Me" to put it in Stove Temp Auto, Medium to High fan,  a given setting that uses say a bag of pellets a day or there abouts. and let the oil pick up the difference. I say that because in 0deg weather this stove and house combo knocks on 3 bags a day if the stove heats the house alone. The first year with a certain batch of crappy pellets that we ended up returning it was pushing 4 bags on a given day. That was the all time worst it ever did though.

I might even set it up to burn 1-1/2 bags a day in the cold in Stove Temp Auto. I bet the oil doesn't run much because we have old cast iron radiators and they give off heat for a long time after the boiler shuts down. Maybe 4-5 cycles a day ( 24 hours) with a .65 nozzle, running 40 minutes each time as a max limit. So that's roughly 2 to 2-1/2 gals a day for the ultra cold weather. That sounds about right from my coal burning days as well. Yeah, the stove really cuts into the on time and enhances the off time of the boiler running.

Or we may have a mild winter, and non of this matters, burn either fuel. But in these dark months we like a fire on the hearth anyway.


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 2, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> "For Me" to put it in Stove Temp Manual, Medium to High fan, a given setting that uses say a bag of pellets a day or there abouts


I think, from what I see so far, the P68 in a low heat/manual mode will burn more than a bag a day..


Dan


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## alternativeheat (Dec 2, 2015)

Pete Zahria said:


> I think, from what I see so far, the P68 in a low heat/manual mode will burn more than a bag a day..
> 
> 
> Dan


Well it's a big high output machine made to make heat. Meanwhile  on average  or the average bag of pellets equals 2.5 gals of oil. You can take it from there.


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## Tonyray (Dec 2, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Well it's a big high output machine made to make heat. Meanwhile  on average  or the a?verage bag of pellets equals 2.5 gals of oil. You can take it from there.


_For Me" to put it in Stove Temp Manual, Medium to High fan, a given setting that uses say a bag of pellets a day or there abouts. and let the oil pick up the difference. _
ok. now u did confuse me.. stove/manual? I was just contemplating stove/auto for winter..
thought manual  was mostly fireplace mode...


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## alternativeheat (Dec 2, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> _For Me" to put it in Stove Temp Manual, Medium to High fan, a given setting that uses say a bag of pellets a day or there abouts. and let the oil pick up the difference. _
> ok. now u did confuse me.. stove/manual? I was just contemplating stove/auto for winter..
> thought manual  was mostly fireplace mode...


Hold the phone, I gotta go back and read my post.


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## Tonyray (Dec 2, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Oh that's my fault entirely Tony, Auto, I meant auto. I'll go back and edit it so it's correct. i only run Stove temp Manual around a 4 output when we have company and don't want the fan on.


wheeew... thanx..
my brain couldn't handle another choice the way this thread has been going..
Stove/auto for me when the fridgids come.. 3rd season and still changing things..
i'm off this rainy Wens...


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## alternativeheat (Dec 2, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> wheeew... thanx..
> my brain couldn't handle another choice the way this thread has been going..
> i'm off this rainy Wens...


If I read it right I said in winter I was running Room Temp Manual and the fan kind of did it's thing. But for mixing with oil I will run in Stove Temp Auto.

Edit: I just found it and corrected it, sorry about that!! Man, one little brain glitch gets complicated at 65 ! 

Separate message from here on: The other evening when I posted I ran the stove on about 3/4 fan in Stove Temp Auto, 3-1/2 output feed rate 2 and the house was in a steady rise in temp as the outdoor temp dropped through the 30's down to about 29.


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## F4jock (Dec 2, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> If I read it right I said in winter I was running Room Temp Manual and the fan kind of did it's thing. But for mixing with oil I will run in Stove Temp Auto.
> 
> Edit: I just found it and corrected it, sorry about that!! Man, one little brain glitch gets complicated at 65 !
> 
> Separate message from here on: The other evening when I posted I ran the stove on about 3/4 fan in Stove Temp Auto, 3-1/2 output feed rate 2 and the house was in a steady rise in temp as the outdoor temp dropped through the 30's down to about 29.


Yeah. If you're going to mix sources Stove is the only way to fly.


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## Tonyray (Dec 2, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Yeah. If you're going to mix sources Stove is the only way to fly.


hey.. not fa nothin but is the final end now of this marathon thread?
doesn't matter to me. can go on forever.. just spitballin here..
did learn some new good stuff ..


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## Pete Zahria (Dec 2, 2015)

alternativeheat said:


> Man, one little brain glitch gets complicated at 65 !


Tell me about it.........

Dan


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## F4jock (Dec 2, 2015)

Tonyray said:


> hey.. not fa nothin but is the finally end now of this marathon thread?
> doesn't matter to me. can go on forever.. just spitballin here..
> did learn some good stuff here..


Depends on whether or not people still think they are learning from it I guess


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## Tonyray (Dec 2, 2015)

F4jock said:


> Depends on whether or not people still think they are learning from it I guess


I for one have run out of questions now that I have found out how to keep a steady blower using a very low feed rate as you say, the Governor..


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