# Fall wood pellet availability



## New Hampshire Jim (Jul 8, 2014)

I don't know what the fall availability of wood pellets will be or If there will be any early buys like years past and I am worried that the fiasco we had last spring getting wood pellets will bleed over to this fall. I did some searching and found East Coast lumber has Okanagan GOLD  for $5.84 a bag If you buy by the ton and $39.00 delivery charge.I have been buying Okies the last few years and have had good luck with them and I think I paid about that much for them last year So I have 2 tons on the way and will deliver this afternoon( 90 Deg. in my driveway.)Funny thing Is they don't have Okie red bag but they do have Black Hills Heat at about the same BTU and ash content as the Gold ones.


----------



## TimfromMA (Jul 8, 2014)

My dealer said his supply of Okie Platinums would be limited so I decided to go with Okie Douglas Fir.

I've had 6 tons of them, plus 1/2 ton of Platinums leftover from last year stacked in my basement since April. I am not worried about any potential shortages next season.


----------



## alternativeheat (Jul 8, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> My dealer said his supply of Okie Platinums would be limited so I decided to go with Okie Douglas Fir.
> 
> I've had 6 tons of them, plus 1/2 ton of Platinums leftover from last year stacked in my basement since April. I am not worried about any potential shortages next season.


 I think you will find no comparison between the platinums and then the DF! The Df should be quite superior based on my own experience.


----------



## joescho (Jul 8, 2014)

No dealers I have spoken to have mentioned anything about short supply or difficulty getting pellets, but I am going to make sure that by the end of August I have enough to last me to April


----------



## SwineFlue (Jul 8, 2014)

joescho said:


> No dealers I have spoken to have mentioned anything about short supply or difficulty getting pellets, but I am going to make sure that by the end of August I have enough to last me to April


All the Lowe's in the Binghamton/Scranton area now have plenty, although they're  $5 a bag.

The Binghamton Agway is having a  hard time keeping them in stock.  They said they have been getting a truckload each of Energex and Barefoot a week, and they are gone in a few days.


----------



## iron stove (Jul 8, 2014)

joescho said:


> No dealers I have spoken to have mentioned anything about short supply or difficulty getting pellets, but I am going to make sure that by the end of August I have enough to last me to April



While pellets are available in my part of CT, prices are up dramatically, Brand selection is WAY DOWN, and smallest July Inventories I've seen in my 11 season of pellet burning.    BUY NOW, or SOON 

My weather sources are predicting another TOUGH winter. So factor in lower than average inventories, higher prices already, if we see another tough winter, there WILL BE shortages and CRAZY prices.  Possibly worse than last season


----------



## Augmister (Jul 8, 2014)

There will be plenty of pellets after last year's fiasco.   Keep yer powder dry...


----------



## Pellet-King (Jul 9, 2014)

Dont be flipping out already "THEY" want you too......


----------



## TimfromMA (Jul 10, 2014)

I'm all set.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Jul 10, 2014)

Augmister said:


> There will be plenty of pellets after last year's fiasco.   Keep yer powder dry...



I wouldn't bet much on that....

Dan


----------



## KMinNH (Jul 10, 2014)

New Hampshire Jim said:


> I don't know what the fall availability of wood pellets will be or If there will be any early buys like years past and I am worried that the fiasco we had last spring getting wood pellets will bleed over to this fall. I did some searching and found East Coast lumber has Okanagan GOLD  for $5.84 a bag If you buy by the ton and $39.00 delivery charge.I have been buying Okies the last few years and have had good luck with them and I think I paid about that much for them last year So I have 2 tons on the way and will deliver this afternoon( 90 Deg. in my driveway.)Funny thing Is they don't have Okie red bag but they do have Black Hills Heat at about the same BTU and ash content as the Gold ones.


Are the Golds just a new name for the Black Hills Heat? I used BHH's last year and thought they were pretty good. I tried to search on Okanagan Gold with little success.


----------



## iron stove (Jul 10, 2014)

Pellet-King said:


> Dont be flipping out already "THEY" want you too......



Im not. Just stating what I witnessed with my own eyes, and comparing to my 11 season of experience. 

And with my weather guru, will see how this works out in another 6 months


----------



## johneh (Jul 10, 2014)

Buy more than you think you will need !
That way if it's a long cold winter again 
you can laugh at the people who don't buy enough
IT IS VERY SIMPLE 
As the Boy Scouts say BE PREPARED


----------



## bbfarm (Jul 10, 2014)

Supply is good here for early buys. Price went down $10 to $220 a ton


----------



## SwineFlue (Jul 10, 2014)

KMinNH said:


> Are the Golds just a new name for the Black Hills Heat? I used BHH's last year and thought they were pretty good. I tried to search on Okanagan Gold with little success.



Yup... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/okanagan-black-hills.88823/page-5#post-1690507


----------



## Harman Lover 007 (Jul 11, 2014)

Most of the TSC stores in New England have huge amounts on the ground now and their early buy of $25 per ton off (8 ton limit) gets the price near me for MWP down to $224. You don't have to pick them up until Oct 1st.


----------



## VanderLaan (Jul 11, 2014)

Harman Lover 007 said:


> Most of the TSC stores in New England have huge amounts on the ground now and their early buy of $25 per ton off (8 ton limit) gets the price near me for MWP down to $224. You don't have to pick them up until Oct 1st.



I received the same flier last week.  I called the local TSC and the employee told me that they did not have any pellets in stock and that they did not know what brand they were going to offer.


----------



## The Ds (Jul 12, 2014)

For those east of the Mississippi, Robbie Galis and his family at Greene Team Pellets have a convienent "pellet shipment tracker" that notifies via email when a shipment is expected within whatever radius you specify when signing up.....They burn well for us....     Here is a link   http://www.greeneteampellets.com/#!product-availability-notification-emails/ck6p


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Jul 12, 2014)

iron stove said:


> My weather sources are predicting another TOUGH winter. So factor in lower than average inventories, higher prices already, if we see another tough winter, there WILL BE shortages and CRAZY prices.  Possibly worse than last season



, have been predicting a brutal dry summer summer for months now, and so far it has been the coolest, wetest one yet. I actually received a courtesy call yesterday from the supplier I had been using, apologizing for not properly notifying of the summer pricing, and that I could place my order with them anytime. They want your business as well and I'm sure are strictly trying to avoid the panic rush buying which will come in mid to late August. That is when the doomsdayers will want to stock up and overload their system. Granted that some favored brands were depleted of inventory quickly, because that was the flavor of the month (or year). PLENTY of other brands to choose from, and I for one look at it as an opportunity to try multiple brands which I have been eyeing.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Jul 12, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> , have been predicting a brutal dry summer summer for months now, and so far it has been the coolest, wetest one yet. I actually received a courtesy call yesterday from the supplier I had been using, apologizing for not properly notifying of the summer pricing, and that I could place my order with them anytime. They want your business as well and I'm sure are strictly trying to avoid the panic rush buying which will come in mid to late August. That is when the doomsdayers will want to stock up and overload their system. Granted that some favored brands were depleted of inventory quickly, because that was the flavor of the month (or year). PLENTY of other brands to choose from, and I for one look at it as an opportunity to try multiple brands which I have been eyeing.




Sorry but my dog put his head on my lap and inadvertently deleted a good portion of my reply!


----------



## Augmister (Jul 12, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> I wouldn't bet much on that....
> 
> Dan


There is no value holding back supply when demand is what it is.   Too many people buying bags, not tons at a time is what tipped the scales last year.   Fear is a great motivator and playing itself out well.   I just sit back and wait till the trucks roll in with the fall deliveries.  BTW, I always keep a years supply on hand so this will be for 2015-16.


----------



## iron stove (Jul 12, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> , have been predicting a brutal dry summer summer for months now, and so far it has been the coolest, wetest one yet. .



Don't know who you follow, but so far the guys I follow ( Subscription service) are doing GREAT.  They busted the super nino theory long time ago. His Hurricane predictions are good.  He puts out Numerical forecasts, not the NWS and its Percentages.....


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Jul 12, 2014)

Actually, meteorology was my degree of choice thirty something years ago. Bagged it after completing Advanced Thermodynamics, but still have a strong working knowledge/foundation of its principles. That said, back in March it was a flip of coin--- hot summer, cool summer, or super niño as they call it is dependent on equatorial ocean surface water temps. As it stands it is dependent on when it peaks which predicts whether '14 or '15 will be hottest. Going on their models they called for 14. Considering we are 3 weeks into summer, perhaps it is a delayed spike. So far it was a missed call (your paid subscription boy has been correct on his 50-50 so far), and I welcome the cooler temps. Time will tell if things pan out as predicted, and we all shrivel! Main point being, plenty of pellets to be had and suppliers would like customers to purchase earlier and be able to predict their supply needs to keep on hand, without the peaks and valleys of demand.


----------



## Bioburner (Jul 12, 2014)

Local Fleet farm where I bought from last year on a September preseason sale for 3.85 per bag has finally gotten in some pellets for a wallet sucking 4.99. Menards still only has a few bags that are broken. I saved a few 11% cards in hope to buy a ton or so when they get them in and have a sale. Will burn primarily corn this season at under 140 ton and its in the shed now.


----------



## alternativeheat (Jul 12, 2014)

Bioburner said:


> Local Fleet farm where I bought from last year on a September preseason sale for 3.85 per bag has finally gotten in some pellets for a wallet sucking 4.99. Menards still only has a few bags that are broken. I saved a few 11% cards in hope to buy a ton or so when they get them in and have a sale. Will burn primarily corn this season at under 140 ton and its in the shed now.


Even at $4.99 there isn't any such thing around these parts ! Half decent pellets will run $6.50 here and maybe just under $6 a bag by the ton in certain places. Most will get over $7 a bag depending on brand here. Still cheaper than oil if I want my house at 73 deg. But if oil were to crash like it did after Jimmy Carter left office then pellets would be a hard sell all over again.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Jul 12, 2014)

Augmister said:


> There is no value holding back supply when demand is what it is.
> Fear is a great motivator and playing itself out well.



The people that sell us pellets are not trying to scare us, any more than we are trying to scare customers.
We only go by what they tell us... so that said, I will stand by my opinion, that if you can buy now,
I would... and would not wait until "you need them"...
Yes.. right now we can get them fairly easy. But the suppliers are cautious about later on.
at least the three that we know.
Everyone does not think as far ahead as you... buying 12 months out.. awesome!

Dan


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Jul 12, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> The people that sell us pellets are not trying to scare us, any more than we are trying to scare customers.
> We only go by what they tell us... so that said, I will stand by my opinion, that if you can buy now,
> I would... and would not wait until "you need them"...
> Yes.. right now we can get them fairly easy. But the suppliers are cautious about later on.
> ...


Which "suppliers" are you referring to? And rather than being "cautious about later on", shouldn't they just be concentrating on their business at hand and cranking out product, rather than inflating an unjustified fear? It seems that the distributors are the ones that are looking to keep the supply chain flowing more freely and make room for more product on their shelves. The distributors by us want us to purchase now, and as far as price difference from last year, we are looking at around 10 dollars a ton more than last year. As a percentage that equates to 3.5% increase. Not bad if you ask me, and those waiting for oil prices to crash and curse a $7.00 bag of pellets have a Lonnnggg wait!


----------



## alternativeheat (Jul 12, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> The people that sell us pellets are not trying to scare us, any more than we are trying to scare customers.
> We only go by what they tell us... so that said, I will stand by my opinion, that if you can buy now,
> I would... and would not wait until "you need them"...
> Yes.. right now we can get them fairly easy. But the suppliers are cautious about later on.
> ...


Try to buy a years supply of pellets on Cape Cod right now. Don't think so, they won't be shipping till Sept, never mind know what they will have in stock. Now is time to sell garden supplies, patio stuff, kayaks and bikes. Oh and fishing tackle and man the tourist traps. Neither the stores nor the customers ( probably why the stores) are thinking heating stuff at the moment. Sept is the time here and probably about the third week at that, pellets will start showing up. Often we have very mild falls here, the bay finally warms up in Aug and holds through Sept and it holds our temps moderate into Oct usually. Sept is a beautiful month here barring a hurricane or two doesn't come through. So Oct, minds will turn to heating and Nov a mad flurry will begin if its a cold one ( often even Nov is still pretty warm here, then it crashes all at once)..

That said,  I personally wouldn't mind having my stock laid in but try to get them ! I have two suppliers who will take next years order but one has decided to carry just Okie DF at a price I'm not will to lay in a whole years supply at. The other can't confirm they will have Energex hards that I prefer over the softs or if there is a price change coming.. I can get La Crete or Vermonts but they are 40+ miles away and at no price with an incentive to travel that far and get one ton at a time.. So I wait till the change happens like everyone else around here.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Jul 12, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> And rather than being "cautious about later on",
> shouldn't they just be concentrating on their business at hand and cranking out product?


 
Couldn't tell ya. I'm not in that business.
I'm just a web guy.. 

Dan


----------



## New Hampshire Jim (Jul 12, 2014)

This is the way i look at It and It Is only my opinion. Lets just say there are 300 family's in my area that burn pellets and each bought 2 tons last year. Come April all were running short and went looking for more and were restricted to 10 bags IF they could find them.So now this year instead of getting 2 ton the 300 family's all decide to get 3 ton. Now pellet seller A,B and C have all got there winter supply 200 tons each for the winter. Come September when the 300 family s go to buy there winter supply Instant shortage that I don't want to be part of and that's why I got my stash early


----------



## iron stove (Jul 13, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> Which "suppliers" are you referring to? And rather than being "cautious about later on",  The distributors by us want us to purchase now, and as far as price difference from last year, we are looking at around 10 dollars a ton more than last year. As a percentage that equates to 3.5% increase. Not bad if you ask me, and those waiting for oil prices to crash and curse a $7.00 bag of pellets have a Lonnnggg wait!



Dude, Seriously, Pellets up here, central CT are up closer to 10%    Hammers, if in stock, are 299. Last year I paid 275.  I bought WP co last week for 260, last year they were 225.   Dry creek last year was 240, today 270.   I haven't seen any VT, Hamers are sketchy, Barefoots come and go.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Jul 13, 2014)

iron stove said:


> Dude, Seriously, Pellets up here, central CT are up closer to 10%    Hammers, if in stock, are 299. Last year I paid 275.  I bought WP co last week for 260, last year they were 225.   Dry creek last year was 240, today 270.   I haven't seen any VT, Hamers are sketchy, Barefoots come and go.



Yup.


----------



## oliveone (Jul 14, 2014)

Has anyone seen any Somerset's around?  If so what cost?  looking for 2015-2016 stash


----------



## cold front (Aug 28, 2014)

Don't know what the scare was all about......lots of pellets to go around


----------



## TimfromMA (Aug 28, 2014)

cold front said:


> Don't know what the scare was all about......lots of pellets to go around


 For now.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 28, 2014)

cold front said:


> Don't know what the scare was all about......lots of pellets to go around



It's August, man... 

Dan


----------



## Boomer Sailor (Aug 28, 2014)

iron stove said:


> While pellets are available in my part of CT, prices are up dramatically, Brand selection is WAY DOWN, and smallest July Inventories I've seen in my 11 season of pellet burning.    BUY NOW, or SOON
> 
> My weather sources are predicting another TOUGH winter. So factor in lower than average inventories, higher prices already, if we see another tough winter, there WILL BE shortages and CRAZY prices.  Possibly worse than last season


 I'm new to pellet buring - had 4 tons delivered with my stove when installed in late December - just a week or two before the polar vortex came knocking.... so although I had my winter supply, I did hear of shortages soon thereafter!   I totally agree with you - I tried to buy Barefoot again this summer and either they are not available/sold out, or you had to place and order and wait...   I didn't want to wait so I had 3 tons of LaCretes delivered in July and I am resting comfortably now   (and double locks on my garage doors just in case lol - jk)


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Aug 28, 2014)

Got 4 tons ready for winter. Plus wood for the next several winters.


----------



## alternativeheat (Aug 29, 2014)

Our Okanagan dealer told us that the supplier has told them that they expect both a similar winter and supply issues as last year. Orders put in now will be honored, they were getting a lock on how many tons to supply. And the supplier wanted pre orders locked in sooner than later, we had a deadline to get ours locked in by.. So I think you will see similar shortages coming in around Feb on premium pellets or certainly DF here in SE New England, you ( whom ever) don't want to be scrounging around looking for pellets in the cold weather. If you can get them now get them. I have secured two tons of DF for dealer on site storage and I will order two tons of perhaps Spruce Pointe pellets for home delivery as soon as I hear they are available and priced out. Our Energex dealer is expecting a full line and supply of pellets to be in stock in sept. I don't expect shortages till after Christmas except maybe on the DF and I have those secured for my mid winter burn period.. Meanwhile I'm up here in Northern Maine running the stove in the cabin we are renting . This morning is cool with a north wind, I turned on the gas stove in the living room to take out the chill ( cabinet model living room stove with ceramic wavers inside, does a great job). Yesterday morning we had the windows open !


----------



## briansol (Aug 29, 2014)

I REALLY wasn't impressed with the black hills i burned last year.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Aug 29, 2014)

briansol said:


> I REALLY wasn't impressed with the black hills i burned last year.


I was tempted with them, but heard 50/50 reviews on the Okies. Glad I did what I did with the Lacretes.


----------



## Boomer Sailor (Aug 29, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> I was tempted with them, but heard 50/50 reviews on the Okies. Glad I did what I did with the Lacretes.


 This is a touch off this thread's topic... but since you've burned Barefoot and LaCrete, do you use different feed rates in your Harman for different pellets?  The dealer/installer both said leave the Feed Rate on 3 and use Stove Temp rather than Room Temp.  (I did just as they suggested with burning the Barefoot and was happy).  TIA !


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Aug 29, 2014)

I usually leave it set at 4 and room the stove in Room Temp. I don't mind it cycling on and off during shoulder season, and I want it to be able to dump more during high demand periods. The Barefoots tend to burn through faster though and I feel a function of pellet size.


----------



## iron stove (Aug 30, 2014)

cold front said:


> Don't know what the scare was all about......lots of pellets to go around



Well, I said BUY in JULY  So how it going ? Pellets I paid 250-260 for are now 280 !  Home depot and lowes are 239 a ton. We are Hours away from September. The local BIG pellet house has the cheapest pellet at 270, and most 280-295, and still very limited quantities of the Best brands.

My long range forecasters are holding rock solid on a COLD winter. So be ready. Buy now, or be ready for plenty of I Told you in a few months.


----------



## Deromax (Aug 31, 2014)

First pellet purchase for me today.  I'm in Canada.  I got 3 tons of Ambiance/Orford hardwood (manufactured by Valfei, in my own city!)

They were at $4.99 a bag.  The store had a 10% off promo today and I got free delivery on top of that.  Not bad, eh?


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 31, 2014)

iron stove said:


> Well, I said BUY in JULY



We started pushing that concept in May.. Not to scare, but to advise.



> Buy now, or be ready for plenty of I Told you in a few months.



No need for that.  
If there is difficulty later on, and we hope there isn't, those caught in it, will get it....
You can only harp on something so long. A lot of the people that buy from us,
and new ones, have stepped up and got their stuff early.. We are WAY ahead of last years
to date sales.
We are hearing some local type smaller dealers, are calling for their orders, and are being told
sure, no problem... 4-6 weeks... then the baloney hits the fan... and likely will continue into the winter...
Historically, the slam season is about to start... County fair season around here... cool nights...
People start thinking "Maybe we should get pellets".. Good idea!

Dan


----------



## JustWood (Aug 31, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> We started pushing that concept in May.. Not to scare, but to advise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The ones who don't "get it" usually never will. I've been in the forest products fuel wood  industry for close to 30 years and have had some of the same customers for that entire time. Customers all the way from the 3 cord a year user  to electric plants consuming thousands of tons of our chips/sawdust often times don't get the man power/logistics of getting wood from stump to end user.
I have wood customers that order wood in Oct. of every year and wonder why they don't get a delivery til Nov. or Dec. I tell them the same thing every year. "Why didn't you respond to the flyer we sent last Feb?" They always just shrug their shoulders.
There are some well educated/informed  individuals on this forum in regards to pellet supply/sales. I woodn't take their info with a grain of salt.
That being said,,,, in my 30 years supplying fuel wood byproducts ,,, raw material supplies are at the lowest levels I've EVER seen and prices just in the last 60-90 days have increased 40-60% (raw material prices). Those increases have to be made up somewhere.
Fuel wood byproducts don't come to market with the flip of a switch like oil, nat gas, and propane. Buy early, buy often.


----------



## TimfromMA (Aug 31, 2014)

JustWood said:


> The ones who don't "get it" usually never will. I've been in the forest products fuel wood  industry for close to 30 years and have had some of the same customers for that entire time. Customers all the way from the 3 cord a year user all the way to electric plants consuming our chips/sawdust often times don't get the man power/logistics of getting wood from stump to end user.
> I have wood customers that order wood in Oct. of every year and wonder why they don't get a delivery til Nov. or Dec. I tell them the same thing every year. "Why didn't you respond to the flyer we sent last Feb?" They always just shrug their shoulders.
> There are some well educated/informed  individuals on this forum in regards to pellet supply/sales. I woodn't take their info with a grain of salt.
> That being said,,,, in my 30 years supplying fuel wood byproducts ,,, raw material supplies are at the lowest levels I've EVER seen and prices just in the last 60-90 days have increased 40-60% (raw material prices). Those increases have to be made up somewhere.
> Fuel wood byproducts don't come to market with the flip of a switch like oil, nat gas, and propane. Buy early, buy often.



I agree. I buy my pellets for the next season as soon as my supplier gets them in. This year, I bought 6 tons the first week in April.


----------



## iron stove (Aug 31, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> We started pushing that concept in May.. Not to scare, but to advise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im a 10 year Veteran at this, and obviously your in the BIZ, but you just cant fix some people.


----------



## TimfromMA (Aug 31, 2014)

"You can't fix stupid"

	-Ron White


----------



## Pete Zahria (Aug 31, 2014)

iron stove said:


> Im a 10 year Veteran at this, and obviously your in the BIZ, but you just cant fix some people.



And we know that. But we just feel that we should share our thoughts,
based on what we hear from others. Like the truckers and suppliers.
What people do with that, is their choice.
But we really don' t want to see people pay more than they have to, or worse, run out
and have to do what many had to do last year... Buy 5 at a time, for premium money.
And honestly, we had to charge more, and made a lot less.

Dan


----------



## bcpellet (Aug 31, 2014)

JustWood said:


> The ones who don't "get it" usually never will. I've been in the forest products fuel wood  industry for close to 30 years and have had some of the same customers for that entire time. Customers all the way from the 3 cord a year user  to electric plants consuming thousands of tons of our chips/sawdust often times don't get the man power/logistics of getting wood from stump to end user.
> I have wood customers that order wood in Oct. of every year and wonder why they don't get a delivery til Nov. or Dec. I tell them the same thing every year. "Why didn't you respond to the flyer we sent last Feb?" They always just shrug their shoulders.
> There are some well educated/informed  individuals on this forum in regards to pellet supply/sales. I woodn't take their info with a grain of salt.
> That being said,,,, in my 30 years supplying fuel wood byproducts ,,, raw material supplies are at the lowest levels I've EVER seen and prices just in the last 60-90 days have increased 40-60% (raw material prices). Those increases have to be made up somewhere.
> Fuel wood byproducts don't come to market with the flip of a switch like oil, nat gas, and propane. Buy early, buy often.



I couldn't agree more. One BIG factor to remember is that in the past, producer's used to cut prices rather than build inventory through the spring and summer. Last year only small discount's were available. This year, no discount's and in some cases price increases. producer's now have more outlets and have worked hard to keep their product moving. This is the lowest pellet inventory that I have seen in 10 years. And it's industry wide. I hope for a short winter, and maybe we won't have the price volatility.One other observation. Everyone knows the box store grind their suppliers to the absolute lowest price.All of the box stores appear to have moved their prices up $20 per ton ( 239 in most places).The mills that used to be vulnerable, dug their heels in this year and were selling from a position of strength, probably the first time ever. They don't feel the need to take the offers from the bottom feeder's in exchange for volume. This is not a good sign for prices drifting lower.


----------



## iron stove (Aug 31, 2014)

Pete Zahria said:


> And we know that. But we just feel that we should share our thoughts,
> based on what we hear from others. Like the truckers and suppliers.
> What people do with that, is their choice.
> But we really don' t want to see people pay more than they have to, or worse, run out
> ...



I used to work retail for over 10 years, In Hardware stores non the less.  Always had the same winter response. We would put everything out by October 1, The big chain stores were mid September. We would do business with the Commercial and " Informed" individuals. By Mid January, when inventories run low, and snow blower manufacturers are making spring stocks of Lawn mowers, people couldn't understand why they couldn't get XYZ model right this minute, or salt was getting short.

This year was the perfect example, and perfect storm. 

There are multiple levels of blame. Lean manufacturing, Just in time deliveries, near ZERO inventories.  All to save MONEY.  Grocery stores and Box stores don't have a rear stock room with overstock, only what's on the shelves.  People buy groceries for 2-3 days at a time.
People have been BRAIN WASHED into not stocking up. Past generations worked all summer to have a Food stockpile, and Firewood to last a long cold winter. There are fewer and fewer of these people every year.
At some point, this will have to revert back to the old ways of thinking.


----------



## TimfromMA (Aug 31, 2014)

There are those who simply do not have the space. I know 2 people personally who only have room to store 1 ton or less.


----------



## dlehneman (Sep 1, 2014)

Several places near me offer to store the pellets for you after you buy them. Not something I need since I don't have a space problem, but I'm sure is helpful to some. Personally once I've paid I want it in my sight, stacked and ready to go!


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 1, 2014)

Once bought, my pellet dealer wants them off their lot so they have room to bring more in.


----------



## LuvMyPellets (Sep 1, 2014)

The Lowes a mile from me has had the same 7 tons of junk sitting out front for the past 3 weeks. (Natures Own) They have never carried anything but the cheapest pellets. Last year it was Old Dominion and Cheat River. The only real pellet dealer here in Delaware is in Dover and they have O'Malleys for $239 a ton.(199 last year) They sold Energex last year for $239 and Hammers for $280 yet this year Hammers are $250. The Tractor Supply is a crap shoot. If you get 5 pallets you might get home with 4 different brands. Very strange how Lowes does supply and distribution. I know I have seen postings North where most of you are where they had really decent pellets.. Not here. Lucky for me I found a dealer 30mi away with 7 truckloads of Energex and a lot more coming at $209.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Sep 1, 2014)

I could never understand how retailers could offer buy and store. This ties up their valuable and expensive real estate, and allows for the customer to take their product on a whim and at the customers convenience. This in turn calls for more labor on the part of the store as they need to go *fetch* a few more bags of the customers stash. Not to mention the liability of damage, theft or inadvertent sale of the customers' pellets to someone who needs them desperately. Then the customer has the nerve to gripe about the retailer and how they should get them their pellets NOW and at all costs! Little do they realize that if the store were to come around to their senses and charge the customer rent for the pellet storage, the cost would be equivalent to the rent between a two and a three bedroom apartment.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Sep 1, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> There are those who simply do not have the space.
> I know 2 people personally who only have room to store 1 ton or less.



There are always exceptional cases like that, but it is such an insignificant number.
Those are victims of a shortage problem, and not the cause.....

Dan


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 1, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> Little do they realize that if the store were to come around to their senses and charge the customer rent for the pellet storage, the cost would be equivalent to the rent between a two and a three bedroom apartment.



You are WAY high on your pellet storage estimate. You could rent a storage locker big enough to hold 4+ tons for less than $100 per month.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Sep 1, 2014)

TimfromMA said:


> You are WAY high on your pellet storage estimate. You could rent a storage locker big enough to hold 4+ tons for less than $100 per month.


Some parts of the world, that translates into the difference between 2 and 3 bedrooms. Back in 1996 my girlfriend was paying 50 per month for just such a locker. Let them pay 100 a month then, and by the end of the season they'll have paid (Oct to March)  600 dollars to store their $1000 pellets. That's a fair deal to the business man, but the customer would still be a stick in the s#%£ looking for help loading up their YUGO every 7 days.


----------



## AddictiveStew (Sep 2, 2014)

Had 3 tons of Hamers delivered on Friday.  Just moved them into the basement and added to my 1/2 ton of AWF's. Should be good to go for this year!


----------



## briansol (Sep 5, 2014)

I still haven't bought yet.

Honestly with oil so cheap right now, and pellets so expensive, i'm really considering NOT burning much this year.  The hedge is, what do oil prices do?

I'm getting about 225 gallons delivered on monday, will top off my 250 gal oil tank.   That's a nice $700 bill.  and will last me until end of novemeber.

WHO AM I KIDDING, the oil is for my hot water :D

I'm going to buy soon, just waiting for my frigging q3 bonus to come in which is now 3 weeks behind schedule. :/


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 5, 2014)

briansol said:


> I still haven't bought yet.
> 
> Honestly with oil so cheap right now, and pellets so expensive, i'm really considering NOT burning much this year.  The hedge is, what do oil prices do?
> 
> ...


Know what you are saying.  Just got my oil tank topped off for $3.20/gallon.  Pretty happy about it, because I haven't paid that little for heating oil since November, 2010!


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 6, 2014)

Pellets costs would have to increase to $556 per ton or oil would have to drop to below $2 per gallon to make oil more economical for me.


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 6, 2014)

Not for me.  The rule of thumb is a bag of pellets produces the same heat as 2.5 gallons of heating oil.  2.5 gallons @ $3.20 is $8.  Just to break even with pellets, I would need to pay no more than $8 * 50 = $400/ton.


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 6, 2014)

I use 900 gallons per year before pellets and 300 after. As soon as 600 gallons of oil cost less than 3.5 tons of pellets, that's when the oil heat comes back on.


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Sep 6, 2014)

ttdberg said:


> Not for me.  The rule of thumb is a bag of pellets produces the same heat as 2.5 gallons of heating oil.  2.5 gallons @ $3.20 is $8.  Just to break even with pellets, I would need to pay no more than $8 * 50 = $400/ton.


Not sure this is correct. I may be wrong. In my experience, I used very close to a bag a day of pellets to heat our 2300sf home. During zero degree days I would go through a bag and a half, but average usage works out to one bag. That said, and using your estimate, I would go through a 250 gallon tank in 100 days. That means a delivery roughly every 3 1/2 months. Watching my neighbor this past season get oil deliveries every three weeks, I can tell you there is NO WAY, that I would ever be able to have a tankful last 100 days! Couple that with the fact that I keep our temps around 70-72 all season long, whereas oil gluggers will keep her steady right around 65, and cooler during the daytime when no one is home.


----------



## ttdberg (Sep 6, 2014)

I guess it boils down to every person's situation and way of looking at this is different.  Like you, I go through roughly a bag a day, but I get the impression you burn the stove 24x7?  Our stove is off when we are at work, so even with the thermostats turned down, I know the furnace is running to keep up with the cold - especially as frigid as last winter was.  Regarding your neighbor's frequent deliveries - ouch!   I suppose it's possible they were getting topped off each time, not getting a full 250 gallons every visit - but I understand your point.  Maybe they have terrible insulation, maybe not.  Maybe they do like to keep their oil heat thermostats at 75, who knows?


----------



## bcpellet (Sep 6, 2014)

KMinNH said:


> Are the Golds just a new name for the Black Hills Heat? I used BHH's last year and thought they were pretty good. I tried to search on Okanagan Gold with little success.



Everyone is wondering what's in the Okanagan bag. Okanagan does not produce any pellets themselves for the Northeast U.S.  They used to, but they have lost their rail siding and can no longer load bulk to have it packaged in New England. They are buying pellets from other producers and putting them in Okanagan bags. You cannot use their test results, as they are NOT Okanagan pellets in those bags. Okanagan produces a good pellet. We know the Gold are southern yellow pine, but we don't know what pellets are in the red bag or the doug fir bag.


----------



## Pete Zahria (Sep 7, 2014)

Caveat emptor .... 


Dan


----------



## stmar (Sep 12, 2014)

I usually get my pellets from a lumber store but when I called to see if they were going to have a pre season sale I was told that they were having trouble getting them, I had more than they had. That raised red flags since I live in a rural low pop area so I called our local co-op and they had stock and they were on sale so I bought my winter supply and am ready for winter, had a foot of snow yesterday Only drawback was that I had to go get them and stack them myself instead of having the lumber company deliver and take the pallet off with a forklift, lol. At least I got some exercise.


----------



## Bioburner (Sep 12, 2014)

stmar said:


> I usually get my pellets from a lumber store but when I called to see if they were going to have a pre season sale I was told that they were having trouble getting them, I had more than they had. That raised red flags since I live in a rural low pop area so I called our local co-op and they had stock and they were on sale so I bought my winter supply and am ready for winter, had a foot of snow yesterday Only drawback was that I had to go get them and stack them myself instead of having the lumber company deliver and take the pallet off with a forklift, lol. At least I got some exercise.


I bet your new supply source is going to be low very soon. Glad it was you getting the snow not me. 38F this AM Trying to get the Harman to finish trying to digest a bag of Penningtons, have had two bridges stop the stove now.


----------



## stmar (Sep 12, 2014)

19 here this morning, mentally not ready but physically prepared: propane full, pellets stacked, freezer full, new battery bank. I did get the feeling that the guys at the lumber company were expecting a shortage and that is why I did not wait for them, I am loyal but not stupid, lol.


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

stmar said:


> 19 here this morning, mentally not ready but physically prepared: propane full, pellets stacked, freezer full, new battery bank. I did get the feeling that the guys at the lumber company were expecting a shortage and that is why I did not wait for them, I am loyal but not stupid, lol.



Where in Wyoming are you ? Ive visited MT&Wy,  both would be on my short list for retirement.


----------



## stmar (Sep 13, 2014)

I am in the north central where the two interstates meet about 50 miles south of the Montana border and 250 miles north of Cheyenne. Small town of Buffalo in Johnson County.


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

stmar said:


> I am in the north central where the two interstates meet about 50 miles south of the Montana border and 250 miles north of Cheyenne. Small town of Buffalo in Johnson County.



Out on the Plains ! 13 years ago flew into Billings, and drove down to Yellowstone, staying outside the East entrance. Loved the drive down, into Cody.  I need Mountains where I stay, so the eastern plains are out for me. You have the Bighorns out your west windows. Did you get snow last few days, or was that up higher elevations ? Also have been to Cheyenne.


----------



## stmar (Sep 13, 2014)

At the foot of the Big Horns, nothing between us and the mountains except for a few cattle, deer, elk and antelope, lol. Over a foot of snow Thursday, had to plow a couple of times that day to keep the driveway open, got down to 19. 50s today and snow is quickly melting.


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

You need to post up a picture or two of that view


----------



## stmar (Sep 13, 2014)

How do I put in a signature and photos?


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

stmar said:


> How do I put in a signature and photos?



For signature, click on your profile name in the top banner, and then select signature under settings.

Pictures need to be hosted, photobucket, etc.


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

stmar said:


> How do I put in a signature and photos?



Hey, just noticed the SNOW picture. Good job !


----------



## Phoenix Hatchling (Sep 13, 2014)

iron stove said:


> Where in Wyoming are you ? Ive visited MT&Wy,  both would be on my short list for retirement.


Costa Rica and Panama are on MY short list for retirement


----------



## iron stove (Sep 13, 2014)

Phoenix Hatchling said:


> Costa Rica and Panama are on MY short list for retirement



Probably settle with New Hampshire. I need Mountains, Season and snow.


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 13, 2014)

stmar said:


> How do I put in a signature and photos?



Signatures can be added from your profile page. To add a photo to your post, select "upload a file" from the bottom of the post screen.


----------



## TimfromMA (Sep 13, 2014)

iron stove said:


> Pictures need to be hosted, photobucket, etc.



Not true. See my previous post.


----------



## stmar (Sep 14, 2014)

Got it, thanks for the help. Snow is just about gone now, from 19 to 80s in a week, gotta love the West


----------

