# Report on my new 50-TVL17 stove! (lots of pictures)



## 48rob (Nov 16, 2010)

After considering the advice provided here, and researching the subject to death...I chose the Englands Summers Heat 50-svl17, or the 50-tvl17, not sure which.
The box says "S" and the order says "T" they look the same anyway.

I placed it in my garage workshop (separate from any vehicles and fuel, etc, and with the written blessing of my insurance company.
There are no codes where I am, but everything was installed in a safe, professional manner following the stove manufacturers directions, and the stove pipe install guide.

I chose double wall Selkirk pipe (and system).
I started with 12' of pipe total, from the stovetop to the chimney cap, but ended up adding 2 more feet of exterior pipe, for a total of 14'.
I was concerned about so much pipe projecting from the low (3/12) pitch roof.
It looked pretty bad being new and bright, but some brown paint helped a lot to let it blend in.













I ordered the stove, and while waiting installed the flue and associated system.
The stove took two weeks to arrive, reasonable since I'm in Illinois, and it started in VA.
Picked it up at the truck terminal Monday morning!

Here are some pictures of the stove in case anyone is considering one.






























































It isn't much to look at, as style goes, but I wasn't after anything fancy for the shop.

Here is what it looks like installed;















I did my three break in fires as per the instructions.
Here is the second one climbing toward 400 degrees.







And another;







Today, I fired it up for real.

It took about ten minutes to get a good blaze going so I could shut down the air.
It has been cruising steadily all day at 80 degrees (in the shop) with outside temps at 40.
I'm burning a mix of Willow and Cherry cut, split and stacked last winter.
I picked up a cheap HF. moisture meter and was pleasantly surprised to find 12% on the Willow, and 15% on the Cherry. Pretty darn dry!
As one might imagine, the Willow is good kindling, but dissapears pretty fast. The Cherry though, will burn for about 2-3 hours.
The splits are pretty small, and the rounds of Cherry are 3-4".
I'm hoping to get closer to 4-6 hours between loads once the weather turns cold, so I can put more than one or two small pieces in at a time.
I'm working on establishing a decent ash bed too.

As expected, when running the stove on low, the glass dirties up, but open the air and let it burn hot, and it clears right up.

I was concerned when looking, and still am, about the small capacity of the stove and being able to keep a fire going while at work.
Much too soon to tell yet.

I was very surprised to see that the firebox is much larger than I had imagined a stove that is only 12.5" deep would be.
I think I can get 5 or 6 splits in it.

I have thus far only one complaint, and that is every time I go in the house, I get cold!
I've never cared for the forced air furnace in the house, and now coming from a very warm shop into a much cooler house is going to be a challenge...

I'm really enjoying it, day #1 is a big success!
More as I learn how to run this thing.

Rob


----------



## maxed_out (Nov 16, 2010)

Looks terrific!  you sound hooked like the rest of us.  In a few weeks you are going to want one inside the house.  Keep us posted on how she runs.  I might have a similar app for my shop as well.


----------



## 48rob (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks!

I've been hooked since age 16 (51 now).
It all started when I spent several months in the fall and early winter in a small mountain town in Oregon (Austin, in case anyone knows it).
The elderly lady I stayed with taught me how to load the wood stove in the living room, and better yet how to load and cook on the wood range in the kitchen in exchange for splitting and stacking wood for the winter.

Later on I put a potbelly in a house at age 19.
It was a lot of fun, heated with only wood for an entire winter.
The stove was either way too hot, or the fire was out...but still, quite an experience!

A few years later I put in a wood furnace in another house, but then my first child arrived, we sold the house and moved on.

The last 30 years have been spent raising children and suffering with a ZC fireplace.
My wife kind of likes wood heat, but really doesn't want it in our house.
The floorplan is pretty awful too, it would be hard to pull off.

So, at least for now, the shop will be my new home...

Rob


----------



## Danno77 (Nov 16, 2010)

I've been eyeing that stove. i really like the looks of it. I am thinking the size would be perfect for a cabin, but I worry about burn times. Let me know how that ends up working for you.


----------



## joecool85 (Nov 17, 2010)

Excellent pictures.  I've been interested in one and haven't found one locally to take a peek at.  Keep us posted how you like it!


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

Joe and Dan,

 I'll keep the updates coming.

If you need more pictures or measurements let me know, I'll try to help.

Rob


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures. Love the workshop too and can tell you are a nature lover just by looking at those lights on left.


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

Dennis,

 I wondered who would be the first to appreciate them!

My grandfather collected the small one in the 50's and I got it at his passing.
The big one I collected a few years ago.

Nature is the coolest place I know.

Rob


----------



## Renovation (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the photos--they are very fun to see, and for telling us a little about  yourself.  You've got a cool (warm) space there.  ;-) 

Congrats on the stove, and good luck in all things.


----------



## corey21 (Nov 17, 2010)

Welcome to the forum.

Very nice shop and stove.


----------



## begreen (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for posting Rob, the stove and shop look great. Good to hear that you are off to a nice start. Be careful not to back into that puppy when working!


----------



## Later (Nov 17, 2010)

What's that in the corner in picture 13? How does the '17 compare?


----------



## Monkey Wrench (Nov 17, 2010)

I hate to rain on your parade..But...

That ain't no work-shop...

That's a Man Cave

Refridge full of Tall Boys, Pringles on the shelf, Rifles on the wall, Coffe Pot for the A.M.

You are in Heavon, my friend!!

I bet you even get paid to be there?


----------



## Jags (Nov 17, 2010)

48rob said:
			
		

> I placed it in my garage workshop...



Huh, where are all the oily tools.  The tore apart small engine carbs.  That one part that needs to be welded.  The box of misc. bolts that you have been meaning to get to for a couple months.  Man - that doesn't look like my shop, and your probably BETTER off for it not to. :lol:


----------



## SmokingAndPoking (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm really glad you like it!  I'm quite proud of its simple looks and construction and I bet it'll keep you warm out there in the shop for a long time.


----------



## joecool85 (Nov 17, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> I'm quite proud of its simple looks and construction and I bet it'll keep you warm out there in the shop for a long time.



Do you have one as well?


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

> What’s that in the corner in picture 13? How does the ‘17 compare?



Retired,

 It is a Warm Morning 25000 btu NG heater.

You can watch the fire, but the blower is noisy.
Better than some of the alternatives...
I still use it/plan to use it to keep the shop warm when the other fire goes out.

The wood stove is quiet, much less expensive to run, and feels better (the heat from it).

As an added bonus, my heath is better from all the associated chores required to tend it.

Rob


----------



## SmokingAndPoking (Nov 17, 2010)

joecool85 said:
			
		

> SmokingAndPoking said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, but I did design the stove.


----------



## RoseRedHoofbeats (Nov 17, 2010)

Awesome! I can't wait to get mine installed!

I actually kind of like it's looks... when I started this whole shebang I got so frustrated trying to find one I could afford, that was a good stove, would fit in my trailer, not overheat, be safe in a small space, etc etc etc that I was basically at the point of I JUST WANT A BOX WITH A FIRE IN IT. Lo and behold, there she is!

~Rose


----------



## Jags (Nov 17, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> joecool85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Corie??  Is that you?


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

> I’m really glad you like it!  I’m quite proud of its simple looks and construction and I bet it’ll keep you warm out there in the shop for a long time.




So, are you the infamous Corie (sp) that designed the stove?

I like it very much so far.
It has only been in the low 40's thus far.
Running it as low as I can is giving me a very comfortable 80 degree shop.
It sure looks like when the averages hit 20 degrees outside, the stove will be just right running at about 400 degrees!

So please, tell me/us about some of the design's and theories you used for the stove.
Any why's and hows?

I like the secondary top plate with air space.
I can't cook on it, but it sure stays cooler and moves a lot of air!

Is the purpose of the steel panel/channel in the center rear of the stove carry combustion air to the top tubes?

Rob


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

> 48rob - 16 November 2010 05:09 PM
> I placed it in my garage workshop…
> 
> Huh, where are all the oily tools.  The tore apart small engine carbs.  That one part that needs to be welded.  The box of misc. bolts that you have been meaning to get to for a couple months.  Man - that doesn’t look like my shop, and your probably BETTER off for it not to.



Jags,

       I actually have several "shops" this one has evolved into more of a...man  cave...
	

		
			
		

		
	






Rob


----------



## 48rob (Nov 17, 2010)

> I hate to rain on your parade..But…
> 
> That ain’t no work-shop…
> 
> ...




MW,

        Well, truth be known, as part of my job, my employer REQUIRES that I maintain an office of sorts.
Since trying to work in the house with all the distractions would never do...
Since I also fix things and need a place to do so, he provides this garage...and house, and a few other things.

The garage started out as my wood working shop, but the mess soon got to be too hard to contain, so I moved the woodshop to another building and made this one my general shop with desk and computer.
Over the years the work bench shrunk from 24' to 6' and the electronic age moved in...along with the fridge and coffee pot and lunch and all the other really important things in life!
(I have several other shops that me and the guys actually work out of, nice guys they are, but I don't share this one!)

I don't get to spend too much time indoors, but enjoy mornings and evenings and lunch on my own time.
And getting paid to work in it a few hours a week is very nice too!

Rob


----------



## SmokingAndPoking (Nov 17, 2010)

Jags said:
			
		

> SmokingAndPoking said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah its me.  I've been quietly watching the forum for a while now, interested to see what everyone thought of this stove.  I'm glad to see that the first review is positive!  I wish I would have taken one with me for my garage too.  The stove has a pretty neat double baffle system, more like a Morso and less like a Quadrafire.  Something a little different that really helped clean the stove up.  Keeps the secondary gas temps high for a little longer.  Plus, the double top means that the blower pushes some seriously hot air into the room!


----------



## joecool85 (Nov 18, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> Jags said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You had the option to take one with you and you didn't?  Bummer.

Also, did you totally design this stove all on your own?  Was it while you were working for Englander, or on your own and then Englander bought the rights to it?

This is the coolest little stove I've seen available in my area of the US and it's really exciting being able to hear about some of it's history.


----------



## SmokingAndPoking (Nov 18, 2010)

I designed the stove while I was a stove designer at Englander.


----------



## joecool85 (Nov 18, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> I designed the stove while I was a stove designer at Englander.



You're no longer with Englander?


----------



## precaud (Nov 19, 2010)

Hey Corie, nice to see you back here, and congrats on the 17VL. The guys at Englander should send you one. I bet _they_ have one of _their_ first designs...

I have a couple technical questions.

Since the fire never comes into direct contact with the top plate with the double secondary baffle technique, does it give up anything in radiation efficiency? I have this view that the top plate is the most important heat exchanger.

The first prototype you showed a pic of here had a single-rail secondary - no tubes. What happened with that approach?


----------



## VCBurner (Nov 19, 2010)

SmokingAndPoking said:
			
		

> I designed the stove while I was a stove designer at Englander.


 
I'm just curious, you were a stove designer for Englander.  But you have the front page picture of the Dutchwest flier as an Avatar.  Do you own one or do you work for VC now?  

Sorry I didn't mean to highjack the thread.  I love all stoves and love to see that one in your shop crancking Rob!


----------



## tickbitty (Nov 19, 2010)

Hmmmm, interesting.  Corie in NY now with the avatar of a stove co. trying to regain their formerly solid reputation!  A stove co that borders on the state he now calls home?!

Well in any case I think Englander appears to have a winner here, and thanks to the OP for all the great pics, I love seeing images like that!  I really wish I could have found an Englander that worked for me, I love it that they are apparently so reliable and economical and that they are made here in my own state!  I'm very pleased with my Lopi but would have loved to keep it in the local economy and I also love it that Mike and others are on this board and etc and the customer service is great!  (I bought a used one last year and had some conversations with the customer service while figuring out if the stove would work for me.)

Anyway this 17 stove is a neat little stove!  And man, the price on it just can't be beat, can it?!


----------



## delp (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi Rob,

I'm pretty much convinced that this is the stove i want. My first floor is open floor plan, 9+ ft ceilings, and just under 500 sq ft. The thing that will be my biggest challenge is the staircase to the second floor runs along an exterior wall (old, solid brick row house with plaster walls, no insulation)...the cold air that rushes down the staircase is, to put it mildly, robust. I'm wondering if a bigger stove that equals more heat would make the displacement more or less of an issue?

How big is your shop? It would help to know the sq ft that the 17vl keeps at 80 degrees. Thanks!


----------



## 48rob (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi Delp,

 The shop area is about 288 square feet.
Once I get the stove running and the temp up, I let the fire die nearly out, running as low as it will go, before adding wood, as much over 80 is too much...
The stove is actully just a shade too much for the area it heats, but not so much extra that it is a problem.
I'm learning as I go too, so by the end of this season I'm sure I'll be better at keeping an even temp.

My entire garage/shop is 720 square feet.
I sometimes open the connecting door and warm the rest of the building, though I've never tried to get it to 80.

I can't see why the stove wouldn't easily keep a 500 sq' building at 80 degrees.

Rob


----------



## delp (Jan 13, 2011)

Whao! thanks for the quick reply and heartening news and opinion! It's really a perfect fit in my old fireplace! I'll keep the forum posted on my progress!

All the best, alina


----------



## joecool85 (Mar 25, 2011)

Any updates on this install Rob?  How are you liking it?  What type of burn times are you getting?


----------



## 48rob (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Joe,

 I'm still liking it!

I've had the most enjoyable winter in memory.
I suppose I'd have said that though with any stove I had, as it was the warmth, not the actual stove.

I love the big glass, seeing the fire is very nice.
I've learned to control the output, and trust it.

Actual burn times (flames or still very hot glowing embers) around 4-5 hours, sometimes 6 hours depending on the kind of wood.
The heat from the stove, and the heated structure however, keep the temps in a 10-20 degree range for 10-12 hours and sometimes more.

If I load the stove around 6:00-6:30pm, the actual fire will be mostly out by midnight, but the room stays warm (60-70) until sunrise.
Although impractical in a house where you are trying to sleep, I don't have any problem letting the shop get to 80 degrees, then dropping to 60 by morning.

I believe if the stove was in the house, as long as I put a log on around midnight, it would maintain comfortable temps all night.

As it is, I've always had decent coals left to get it going again in the morning.

I do wish it had a larger firebox/capacity, but in my tiny shop, it works very well as is, larger would be too much.

If I ever change it, I'd like to try a cat for longer burn times, lower heat output.

Rob


----------



## joecool85 (Mar 27, 2011)

48rob said:
			
		

> Hi Joe,
> 
> I'm still liking it!
> 
> ...



Excellent insight Rob, I appreciate it.  What length are your splits/what fits in well?  It says 16" but it's a small stove so I didn't know how well that would realistically fit.


----------

