# Biobricks, the economics of them?



## clemsonfor (Jan 4, 2012)

Under the advice of a Mod i decided to start a new thread as i hijacked anothers thread, but was quickly seated by the mod and the thread continues to fly its course.  Anyway here is a cut and paste of my comment..

I just looked, these things are $4 for a pack of 8 at TSC. Even at the sale price yall say of $3/8, how can this even be cost effective to burn these, esp pure bio bricks. Your talking in a small stove your burning 12 bricks for 10-12 hours that will cost you $6, thats $12/day for the heat. or in a Blaze king king your gonna use about $9 for a load 

I can see where they have thier place like the guy who said he was sick and there easy or if you have a huge snow and are trapped in the house and dont have a huge supply of wood at the house and dont want to trudge through 2 feet to the shed. But i was thinking these things are like the size of those duraflame firelogs, but they appear to be more like 8"s maybe?

Firewood has to be way cheaper to even buy it!


----------



## EatenByLimestone (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, yeah.   Of course it's not the most economical way to heat the house.  Just like processed food isn't the cheapest way to fuel your body.   

They are convenience items.   

Matt


----------



## wrxtance (Jan 4, 2012)

A friend of mine used his stove for ONLY supplemental heat.  probably 70% oil and only 30% wood.  For him, he bought a single ton of the eco bricks and that lasted him the winter - at his pace.  For him, this worked well and he didn't have to lift a finger, no mess, and they fork lifted the pallet of bricks right into his garage.

heating 100% with these (like I do with wood) I too don't see how they could come close.  I do use them to jump start my unfortunate semi-seasoned wood this winter...


----------



## Dakotas Dad (Jan 4, 2012)

The economics of them don't work out for everybody. Simple as that. I bought a few packs this year to play with.

Where I live, they are more expensive than buying firewood, with hardwood delivered at $45 a rick, or $120 a cord. To use the bricks costs half again as much. (Here they can be bought by the pallet at Oschliens for about $2.15 a pack if pre-ordered. Works out to about $200 a cord. 

BUT, if your other options are gas/oil or electric, they still win hands down, and many who live in the northeast pay 2-3 times what we do here for firewood split/delivered, while the price of the bricks remains about the same when bought in bulk. If I had to buy my wood, I would in fact consider these, because they are pretty clean, bug free, and easy to work with. Put three pallets in the basement in the fall, and never have to go outside all winter. lol

Here pelltets are pretty popular, among people who don't have, or don't want to mess with wood.. I see it as the same mind set, except with the bricks, you CAN heat without power and can switch to cord wood at any time.


----------



## Mainely Saws (Jan 4, 2012)

Yes , in southern coastal Maine the average price for seasoned firewood per cord can easily $300 or over . At $240 per ton on sale , the ECO bricks are competitive . I do a mix of cutting my own wood & buying some . I buy a ton on sale to mix in with my cord wood & having an E/W stove they come in very handy for me . A typical load of fuel would be 3 smaller splits E/W , 3 or 4 ECO bricks on top of that N/S & then the biggest splits I can get in there E/W again . The ECO bricks tend to burn longer ( especially in coal stage ) & it makes for a longer fire for me . The bricks store in a much smaller area & are bug free . I wouldn't choose to burn the bricks solely by themselves but they do serve a nice purpose .

                                     Bob


----------



## Chettt (Jan 4, 2012)

I've tried liking this fuel for a couple of years and I do to some degree but not nearly as much as real wood. Using both the ones from Tractor Supply and this year I bought Gren Heat bricks from Menards I find that in a medium to large firebox 4 bricks equals about two splits in heat output. The brick heat curve is hard and hot for a couple of hours and only so so as it burns to ash. To load 10 or more for an extended burn, you would need to find a way to retard the ignition of most of them until later . With bricks only, it is hard to shut the primary completely down. 

I would like to try these in a Jotul 602 or other small box stove. 

Menard's price for 20 blocks is $5.00 which is 38lbs of fuel. I think they work as good as the other brands. 

With well seasoned wood, my primary use for them is putting one or two in on a cold start and using them like a turbo charger to get the box hot sooner.


----------



## spirilis (Jan 4, 2012)

It's convenience and also works for those who don't have land to stack firewood, have fussy HOA's, etc.  My biggest gripe is the price point is usually a tad above wood pellets when the appliance you burn them in is slightly lower in efficiency than a pellet stove on top of that... I'd rather see the price point equal with pellets or below.  But I do burn them exclusively, relying on the heat pump for >35F temps and we enjoy the fires.

Also keep in mind, not all bricks are created equal and I've found a lot of factors come into play--fineness of the sawdust used, species of wood, actual size of the brick, etc.  The "WoodBrickFuel" 2lb bricks I burn as kindling b/c they burn hot & fast, expand a lot, hard to get good burn times with them.  Not sure what species of wood, I think those are a mix as the mfr pools sawdust from a variety of local businesses.  The large "Eco Energy Fuel Blocks" (7-8lb/block) bricks don't expand, burn much slower and actually coal up, giving good burn times.  They're made of red & white oak and all sawdust comes from one source, a hardwood flooring mfr. in Kentucky.


----------



## ort5 (Jan 4, 2012)

I think others have made good points.    I burn Envi Blocks along with less-than-seasoned cord wood as supplemental heat to my oil burner.    I bought 2 cords of "seasoned" wood 2 years ago that still isn't dry!   That's the type of frustration that I'm sick of.    The wood also has mouse poop, snake skins, bugs, mold and dirt on it.   The Envi Blocks have none of that and are bone dry.  

Is cord wood cheaper?   Perhaps, but not by much when you figure in time and aggravation.    I do love the way that cord wood burns when properly seasoned though.   You don't get great coals with the brick fuel.   

Sometimes I think I should have bought a pellet stove, but then I realize that the stove would cost $2 - $3k more than my wood stove.   That extra money can buy lots of Envi Blocks!   Perhaps in my next house....


----------



## MarkinNC (Jan 4, 2012)

In my climate, which is mild, most of the homes here use heat pumps to heat their homes.  I know very few people with a gas furnace.  For me, I can heat my house with electricity cheaper than $12 per day.  I only save about $200 per month heating with wood.


----------



## blwncrewchief (Jan 4, 2012)

clemsonfor said:
			
		

> Under the advice of a Mod i decided to start a new thread as i hijacked anothers thread, but was quickly seated by the mod and the thread continues to fly its course.  Anyway here is a cut and paste of my comment..
> 
> I just looked, these things are $4 for a pack of 8 at TSC. Even at the sale price yall say of $3/8, how can this even be cost effective to burn these, esp pure bio bricks. Your talking in a small stove your burning 12 bricks for 10-12 hours that will cost you $6, thats $12/day for the heat. or in a Blaze king king your gonna use about $9 for a load
> 
> ...



clemsonfor, I saw your post last night and wanted to comment also that you have to keep the different brands and sizes clear between the different bricks. The post last night was in reference to BIO bricks which I believe are about half the size of the ECO bricks that TSC sells. I played with the ECO bricks and I could heat my house on 2-3 packs a day average which at the sale price would be $6-$8 a day or $180-$240 a month. The economics part depends alot on where you live and what your available heating options cost. Here I can get cord wood for $150 a cord or so. So the bricks really are not a cheaper alternative. Now if you watch the post on here some either are paying over $300 a cord and some can't find seasoned dry wood period. Another consideration is storing the bricks is much easier as you can fit the "approximate cord equivalent" of one ton on one pallet.

I also can see the advantage for people with smaller fireboxes for overnight burns and more overall heat output. With the 3+cf firebox I have I don't have a problem getting a long enough burn or as much heat as I need with any kind of cord wood but I can see having a 1.5cf or so box being a pain in the rear fighting long enough burns and enough heat to keep up. So in some cases I would be inclined to pay a little extra for the advantages of the bricks. I keep some on hand just for backup because they are so easy to store. It's kind of like having your couple year wood supply on hand I also keep a dozen packs in the house. Example for me is the wife had shoulder surgery so loading firewood in the house from the stack is out for her for the winter. Then a couple weeks ago I was sicker than a dog for 5 days and going out in the cold for firewood was the last thing I wanted to do. I have a rack that holds a 1/3 or so of a face cord in the house and loaded it before I got sick so I was able to make it without using the backup bricks. If I didn't have the wood in the house or it would have been colder out I could have used the bricks instead of having to drag my sick self outside for firewood. Alot of people don't like storing cord wood inside because of bugs, dirt, etc so these can be a good alternative for that purpose also.


----------



## begreen (Jan 4, 2012)

If you are stuck buying wood at this time you probably are going to get poorly seasoned wood with low heat output. In this case, getting dry BioBricks could make the difference between being comfortable or not. If you are in an urban area, highly-compressed wood products can be quite desirable because they are easier to store than cord wood and they burn very cleanly. 

Just like wood, there is a large variation in the heat output and burn time of compressed wood products. Some low compression products expand rapidly in heat and burn up in a few hours. I'd avoid these products if the intent is to heat full time with them. The highly compressed products are a different animal and have fantastic burn times when used as directed. But follow their instructions! They can overfire a stove if burned incorrectly.


----------



## agartner (Jan 5, 2012)

I'll throw my take into the mix, being that it was my post that kind of kicked this whole economics thing off.  I pay about 270 a ton plus delivery - lets just call a tad under 300 bucks a ton for a full season.  I burn anywhere from 3 to 4 tons a season.  So I'm paying a bit under 1200 bucks for 4 tons.  If I heated solely with propane, which is the house system, I would burn 250 gallons a month.  At close to 4 bucks a gallon, that's 1000 bucks a month.  If my heating season is 4 months then I would shell out 4 grand to heat my house.  In reality, when I was pure propane, it was more like 3500 bucks, but hey, whats 500 smackers between friends?  My net savings is 2000 dollars a year at minimum over propane.

Cordwood prices for "seasoned" range anywhere from 240 to 280 in my neck of the woods.  Unseasoned - maybe in the 200 dollar range.  But, as we all know much too well, seasoned wood isn't, so this basically means for me to meet my heating needs and to do it "right", I need to have 9 to 12 cords stacked up in the back yard - a third of that pile bought two years ago, another third bought a year ago, and the last third bought during the current year.  On my little half acre lot in N'Hamshire suburbia, that's good chunk of real estate to take up.  With the bricks, I buy my season's worth in September or October, stack 'em in my garage, burn 'em in the winter, lather, rinse, and repeat for next year.

Lets say I did decide to stack up 12 cords over time - I'm still paying 200/cord unseasoned, so that's 800 a year for heat vs. 1200 a year for heat.  $400 difference, but I'm also spending time stacking, cleaning, covering, splitting, and hauling loads in through the snow, not to mention the real-estate those 12 cords eats up.  For me, that $400 dollars and then some get eaten up in just my labor cost. 

Then there's the convenience thing - nothing to split, nothing to cover, very little mess to clean up.  Granted, if I lived on, had access to, or owned a dedicated wood lot where I was able to harvest my own cordwood, and had the time to harvest, cut, and split that wood, I think mine would be a very different story.  

I could also scrounge for wood - it's definitely available all over the place up here, but that's also a time and effort thing - and working professionally full time, well lets just say I have to pick and choose how to best spend my free time.  I could spend all summer collecting free wood or I can spend the summer with the family or riding my motorcycle.  For me, not a real tough choice.

Anyways -they work well  for me for where I'm at now.

Cheers!


----------



## Pallet Pete (Jan 5, 2012)

clemsonfor said:
			
		

> Under the advice of a Mod i decided to start a new thread as i hijacked anothers thread, but was quickly seated by the mod and the thread continues to fly its course.  Anyway here is a cut and paste of my comment..
> 
> I just looked, these things are $4 for a pack of 8 at TSC. Even at the sale price yall say of $3/8, how can this even be cost effective to burn these, esp pure bio bricks. Your talking in a small stove your burning 12 bricks for 10-12 hours that will cost you $6, thats $12/day for the heat. or in a Blaze king king your gonna use about $9 for a load
> 
> ...



I was the sick guy and can say that I do not find them to be cheaper but you are right they have there place. Most of my wood I harvest which means minimal cost (gas, food, and oil) thats about all. I can see very easily where a city person without land but a garage could end them useful even cheaper than gas. At 4 dollars we can say roughly 600 a season to heat at my capacity thats not bad at all and it could be less. I used 8 at once but judging by how hot and how long they burn I could have done 5 easily and got the same burn time might sound crazy but its true. They burned for almost 18 hours on the last load which means they are really efficient for the price. The duraflame log when I tried went for about 4 hours and lost most heat at 3 hours overall unimpressive in my book. The Eco logs are very impressive when used right that much I can say but use them wrong and they can burn extremely hot ( dangerously ).

Pete


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 5, 2012)

agartner said:
			
		

> I'll throw my take into the mix, being that it was my post that kind of kicked this whole economics thing off.  I pay about 270 a ton plus delivery - lets just call a tad under 300 bucks a ton for a full season.  I burn anywhere from 3 to 4 tons a season.  So I'm paying a bit under 1200 bucks for 4 tons.  If I heated solely with propane, which is the house system, I would burn 250 gallons a month.  At close to 4 bucks a gallon, that's 1000 bucks a month.  If my heating season is 4 months then I would shell out 4 grand to heat my house.  In reality, when I was pure propane, it was more like 3500 bucks, but hey, whats 500 smackers between friends?  My net savings is 2000 dollars a year at minimum over propane.
> 
> Cordwood prices for "seasoned" range anywhere from 240 to 280 in my neck of the woods.  Unseasoned - maybe in the 200 dollar range.  But, as we all know much too well, seasoned wood isn't, so this basically means for me to meet my heating needs and to do it "right", I need to have 9 to 12 cords stacked up in the back yard - a third of that pile bought two years ago, another third bought a year ago, and the last third bought during the current year.  On my little half acre lot in N'Hamshire suburbia, that's good chunk of real estate to take up.  With the bricks, I buy my season's worth in September or October, stack 'em in my garage, burn 'em in the winter, lather, rinse, and repeat for next year.
> 
> ...



Very good post!
Still saving money over propane and I'm sure your house is warmer with the Bio-Bricks!


----------



## richg (Jan 5, 2012)

agartner said:
			
		

> I'll throw my take into the mix, being that it was my post that kind of kicked this whole economics thing off.  I pay about 270 a ton plus delivery - lets just call a tad under 300 bucks a ton for a full season.  I burn anywhere from 3 to 4 tons a season.  So I'm paying a bit under 1200 bucks for 4 tons.  If I heated solely with propane, which is the house system, I would burn 250 gallons a month.  At close to 4 bucks a gallon, that's 1000 bucks a month.  If my heating season is 4 months then I would shell out 4 grand to heat my house.  In reality, when I was pure propane, it was more like 3500 bucks, but hey, whats 500 smackers between friends?  My net savings is 2000 dollars a year at minimum over propane.
> 
> Cordwood prices for "seasoned" range anywhere from 240 to 280 in my neck of the woods.  Unseasoned - maybe in the 200 dollar range.  But, as we all know much too well, seasoned wood isn't, so this basically means for me to meet my heating needs and to do it "right", I need to have 9 to 12 cords stacked up in the back yard - a third of that pile bought two years ago, another third bought a year ago, and the last third bought during the current year.  On my little half acre lot in N'Hamshire suburbia, that's good chunk of real estate to take up.  With the bricks, I buy my season's worth in September or October, stack 'em in my garage, burn 'em in the winter, lather, rinse, and repeat for next year.
> 
> ...



Damn good post. My son is a little over three years old and I want to spend as much time with him as possible. When he's older we can split and stack wood together, but for now, time with him is priceless. I have a lot of wood stacked and a big load of oak to split and stack, but when it's running low, I'll turn to bricks for a while.


----------



## pastera (Jan 5, 2012)

When they are on sale around me htey are $2.99 a pack

$2.99 * 80 = 239.20/ton with 17MBTU/ton

$14.07/MBTU for BioBricks

CSD Cord of green oak: $220 (average spring price) - add 10% for two year wait: $242/cord
Oak is 25MBTU/cord
$9.68/MBTU for CSD cordwood (you still have to stack it)

Adding $50/cord to stack - $270 +10% = $297/cord
$11.88/MBTU for CSS cordwood

Oil is $3.29/gallon with 138700BTU/gallon
7.21 gallons per MBTU

$23.14/MBTU for oil

BioBrick are still way cheaper than oil if you don't have the time or room to deal with cordwood

Aaron


----------



## eclecticcottage (Jan 6, 2012)

We've been using Ecobricks along with a limited wood supply to get through this season (our first) since we heat exclusively with wood-no other heat appliance currently hooked up and working.  Our other options are propane and electric, both more expensive and boring (I like to SEE the fire).  Given our limited access to seasoned wood, they seem like the best option.  Other than winterizing and staying at our old house.

We tried a pack of "wood brick fuel" last night.  I'd burn it if it was GIVEN to me AND I had nothing else OR in our bon fire pit.  IMO, they sucked.  Much more "sawdusty" than Ecobricks, less compressed and couldn't damp down as much.  Also, much more expensive. 

We plan to buy a pallet or two next year also, to suppliment what we have C/S/S from this summer since I don't think there's much hardwood in there (all free scrounge-I know there's box elder, pine and willow among others).  Still cheaper than the other options, and easier to stack-plus I don't have to store it for years (we don't have a huge area for wood storage).


----------



## begreen (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes, low compression bricks and logs are not worth it IMO. The highly compressed products are the only ones worth using as a steady fuel.


----------



## spirilis (Jan 6, 2012)

The "wood brick fuel" makes fantastic kindling/flue warming or shoulder season fires FWIW.  It was my main fuel when I used the Defiant upstairs (and didn't have as much space to heat/burn times didn't matter much when the upstairs reached a minimum of 85F).  My routine with the Jotul downstairs is to use 4 woodbrickfuel to get the stove blazin', then on the cooldown (~2hr later) rake the brittle glowing sawdust ember mass to the front and reload with the big boys.

Also helps at times to toss 1 woodbrickfuel brick into the middle of the big fuel block inferno to get the stove back into the 650F range... sometimes when running 2 of the big 8lb blocks I struggle to get over 550F (though lively blue secondaries are happening, just not enough to reach high temp)


----------



## eclecticcottage (Jan 6, 2012)

spirilis said:
			
		

> The "wood brick fuel" makes fantastic kindling/flue warming or shoulder season fires FWIW.  It was my main fuel when I used the Defiant upstairs (and didn't have as much space to heat/burn times didn't matter much when the upstairs reached a minimum of 85F).  My routine with the Jotul downstairs is to use 4 woodbrickfuel to get the stove blazin', then on the cooldown (~2hr later) rake the brittle glowing sawdust ember mass to the front and reload with the big boys.
> 
> Also helps at times to toss 1 woodbrickfuel brick into the middle of the big fuel block inferno to get the stove back into the 650F range... sometimes when running 2 of the big 8lb blocks I struggle to get over 550F (though lively blue secondaries are happening, just not enough to reach high temp)



Hm..sounds like a difference in how stoves like to run.

The wood brick fuel did heat up nice for a brief time, to about 600 or so, then actually snuffed out after a bit when damped to the same place the eco bricks usually are (maybe 1/4 open).  Had to add other bricks and some pine to restart.  I tried restarting two of them on their own ember bed last night and ended up staying up for an hour, getting frustrated and throwing in an ecobrick and pine again to get it going-and I had to light those because the embers just weren't lighting anything.

We usually load 3-5 ecobricks at a time, depending on ambient temps and needed burn times, sometimes with 2-3 splits for a longer day burn when it's colder (a split on each side n/s and one in front e/w).  Never had a problem with them getting temps up, usually to 600-650 then down to cruise @ 500-550.  Hottest it hit was about 750 this past tuesday when we packed her full with 6 bricks and a split to get temps back up when it was 5 degrees out, basically a cool but not cold start (away for 12ish hours).  I try to stick to 4 per load/1 pack per day MAX because of the cost.


----------



## GAMMA RAY (Jan 6, 2012)

I play around with the envi-bricks. I have used the eco bricks too but TSC is out of them until next year.
Sometimes I get some that seem to snuff out....even on a good coal bed. I have to wonder if it is because of moisture absorbed in some of them. The last couple of packs I got are not burning well and look a lil different..and they look bigger. I am going to question the guy at the stove shop about it. I never noticed that with the ecos...just the envis.....


----------



## fredarm (Jan 6, 2012)

I've used Bio Bicks, Geo Bricks (a Canadian equivalent), and am currently using Eco Bricks from TSC.  I like them all, although I prefer the Eco's because they are larger and I can use them N-S in my little stove.  I tried Wood Brick Fuel bricks a couple of years ago and found that they just dissolved in a glowing mess of sawdust.  Compression makes a difference, as BeGreen notes above.


----------



## Mainely Saws (Jan 6, 2012)

Another comparison might be between Eco bricks in a wood stove & burning wood pellets in a pellet stove . I have been considering installing a pellet stove in my basement for the really cold spells but if the Eco bricks get any cheaper & even if they don't , I might just install an $800 NC-30 or the smaller NC-13 where the furnace used to be ,( using an existing chimney ) & not have to worry about electricity , weekly cleanings , repairs &  high initial purchase costs of a pellet stove .....


----------



## jjs777_fzr (Jan 6, 2012)

I would not heat solely with BioBricks but mixing them in with splits makes for a nice fire.   Maybe 2-3 bricks with wood on top and in front.  I haven't decided whether placing the bricks tight together or spread out yields an advantage over the other - since I'm only using a few at a time with the splits.
I seem to have better coals or embers at the end of the burn where I can get a fire started more easily if I lag in between.


----------



## agartner (Jan 7, 2012)

There are good products out there, and there those that are not so good.  It essentially comes down to how well compressed the final product is.  If not enough compression is used, the brick will swell, fall apart, and leave your with a pile of blackened sawdust that has the combustion properties of a rotted dead fish.  Inspect your bricks before you buy.  If it flakes apart easily in your hand or seems "loose", walk away.  One way I use to tell quality is that most manufacturers will "imprint" something - a logo, or a word, or something into the side of the brick.  If the impression is crisp and clear, you're probably good.  If it looks "ratty", well, your better off going back to the cordwood pile.


----------



## EddieB (Jan 7, 2012)

For what it's worth, I've been using Envi Blocks and not so seasoned firewood together. This is my first season heating with wood. Not a drop of oil has been used to heat my 2400+ sq ft home. The Envi blocks were more expensive then the seasoned ( or not so seasoned) wood I was sold. Together, they are working out really well. On nicer days, I go out and gather up the days worth of wood and add it to 3 Envi blocks, when it's stormy out, I use mostly Envi blocks. The blocks last a long time and kick off a lot of heat. They have really saved me from a bad experience with so-so wood. I did however find a guy selling unseasoned wood (probably slightly wetter then the thief who said seasoned) for 120 per cord. And it was actually a cord, so I bought 4 cords for next year. In the spring I'm planning on buying 4 more from him. That will leave me in good shape for the following year. I will still buy a ton of Envi blocks next year, for the convince of not having to go out in a storm and hump wood in. I hope to scrounge more wood in the future. It's everywhere, if you slow down long enough to look for it. 

So, for the economics, they are more costly then seasoned wood, but, you aren't likely to get screwed on the volume or the moisture content. Plus, no economics discussion would be complete without taking into account how much your time and sanity are worth. If you have more time then money, scrounge, if you have limited time and can afford it, the Envi blocks will heat well for you..

Ed


----------



## pen (Jan 7, 2012)

Well said EdB

pen


----------



## Jaugust124 (Jan 7, 2012)

I've been thinking about trying some of these bricks for the 3:00 A.M. reloads.  Takes me about a 1/2 hour to reload, wait for the wood to catch, and get the air shut down.  Seems like it might be a bit easier to just throw a couple bricks in, let them catch, shut the air down to 1/4 and go back to bed.  I only want the stove to run until about 7:00 A.M. during the week and I just haven't figured out yet how to get an "all night" burn with cord wood.  Thinking these might make life a bit easier.


----------



## bogydave (Jan 7, 2012)

Some very good factual info.
For those who really enjoy processing fire wood, have the time, equipment, source & storage space,  we might never use them. 
Knowing they're available & work OK is good knowledge to have. You never know. A "life is" moment may make them a viable solution.
Good points, good thread


----------



## hockeypuck (Jan 7, 2012)

I was a doubter in the bricks.... but I ran out of seasoned wood last year and did a ton last February.   They worked well.  I am finding that they have their place.  The are great in the shoulder season because they start quickly can come up to temperature quickly.   You can burn them at lower temperature with less creosote build up because they are dry.  They are easy to store and most importantly, they are easy for my wife to keep the fire going during the day.  During the cold season, I use wood at night because I have a better bed of coals in the morning to use to get the stove going again.  

This year I only had 1 chord of seasoned wood so I ordered 2 tons of Bio brick.   I bought 15 packages of the TSC brand last fall when they had that sale.  They are both comparable, just different in size.  I should not have a problem making it out into April with this combination.

I have a 1900 sq foot ranch that was built in 1964.  Half the windows have been replace, I am working on the other half.  In a normal year (with no wood) I would use 800 gallons of heating oil.  My previous owner used 1100 one year, but she was 85 and probably had the thermostat at 75.  250 gallons are for hot water the rest (550) would be fore oil.  Now I kept my thermo at 60 at night and 64 to 68 during the day, by no means excessive.  Last year we did 1 1/2 chords of wood and a ton of bricks.  The wood was from my property but if I had to buy both, the cost would be around 800 bucks.  I used 375 gallons of oil last year.  The savings is about 700 bucks.  If I had to by 3 ton of bricks that would have been about 600.

To me it is more than just the savings.  We are toasty warm (72 to 75) while we are up and there is no replacing a point heat source on a cold day.  Plus there is the fact that I am helping with our dependence on oil, even though most of our heating oil comes from canada, it still helps with over all demand.  The bricks definitely have their place and if I did not have any seasoned wood, I would not hesitate to use all bricks. Fortunately I have 2 chords ready for next year, but will still buy two ton of bricks.


----------



## hockeypuck (Jan 7, 2012)

Jaugust124 said:
			
		

> I've been thinking about trying some of these bricks for the 3:00 A.M. reloads.  Takes me about a 1/2 hour to reload, wait for the wood to catch, and get the air shut down.  Seems like it might be a bit easier to just throw a couple bricks in, let them catch, shut the air down to 1/4 and go back to bed.  I only want the stove to run until about 7:00 A.M. during the week and I just haven't figured out yet how to get an "all night" burn with cord wood.  Thinking these might make life a bit easier.



This is an excellent use for the bricks.  Once you understand how the run in your stove you can find the proper setting and walk away.  You need to be careful, because they will burn hotter than normal wood, so you should try this out during the day so you can monitor how the react to your stove.


----------



## nola mike (Jan 7, 2012)

Just tried some bio bricks in the CW2500, and I'm impressed.  The great thing about them is that you can really pack them into a small firebox--I can probably get twice the weight of wood in there, at least.  After 9 hours, I still had a strong bed of coals, and they burned hotter for longer than my (crappy pine) cord wood.  I got them for $4/bundle at TS, and am still looking for something cheaper.  I'm going to use these for overnight burns though, or when I need the stove to go longer.  I'm looking forward to giving them a shot in the 602.


----------



## cwill (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm using the Gren Blocks from Menards, to offset our low supply of split wood. 6 of those and three splits on top and I can go 10 hrs with enough coals to reload without kindling. Best burn time with regular wood was about 8hrs.  For a little stove that really impresses me. The smaller square shape really helps get more usable fuel in the stove. At $260 a ton, I don't think I would burn them exclusively but they have their place.


----------



## clemsonfor (Jan 7, 2012)

EddieB said:
			
		

> For what it's worth, I've been using Envi Blocks and not so seasoned firewood together. This is my first season heating with wood. Not a drop of oil has been used to heat my 2400+ sq ft home. The Envi blocks were more expensive then the seasoned ( or not so seasoned) wood I was sold. Together, they are working out really well. On nicer days, I go out and gather up the days worth of wood and add it to 3 Envi blocks, when it's stormy out, I use mostly Envi blocks. The blocks last a long time and kick off a lot of heat. They have really saved me from a bad experience with so-so wood. I did however find a guy selling unseasoned wood (probably slightly wetter then the thief who said seasoned) for 120 per cord. And it was actually a cord, so I bought 4 cords for next year. In the spring I'm planning on buying 4 more from him. That will leave me in good shape for the following year. I will still buy a ton of Envi blocks next year, for the convince of not having to go out in a storm and hump wood in. I hope to scrounge more wood in the future. It's everywhere, if you slow down long enough to look for it.
> 
> So, for the economics, they are more costly then seasoned wood, but, you aren't likely to get screwed on the volume or the moisture content. Plus, no economics discussion would be complete without taking into account how much your time and sanity are worth. If you have more time then money, scrounge, if you have limited time and can afford it, the Envi blocks will heat well for you..
> 
> Ed



You and the other folks abouve and below this post make sense. I do live in a rural area and my job as a forester in charge of logging operations allows me to find wood when ever i want to. I just get my saw and drive a truck to work, on the way home i cut a truck load of wood. I have a ranger shortbed with tool box that i drive so it fills fast.


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 8, 2012)

I might have to try a few of the Northern Idaho Energy logs that BeGreen reviewed.

The local co-op carries them.




















http://www.nwfuel.com/buy-north-idaho-energy-logs.html


----------



## bogydave (Jan 8, 2012)

Cool, 
not sure about the energy rating comparison though.

1 unit of E-logs = 1.5 to 2 cords of "What kind of wood" cottonwood, birch, oak  locust. (apples to oranges)
1980 lbs per unit/  cord of dry  locust 4000 lbs. (apples to apples)

Still a good product, maybe to perfectly shaped 
Never have to decide which piece will fit. May have to split a few for various sizes


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 8, 2012)

To uniform for ya eh? lol


----------



## begreen (Jan 8, 2012)

Treacherous said:
			
		

> I might have to try a few of the Northern Idaho Energy logs that BeGreen reviewed.
> 
> The local co-op carries them.
> 
> http://www.nwfuel.com/buy-north-idaho-energy-logs.html



Burn them with respect and let us know what you think. There are a lot of btus in them thar logs.


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 8, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Treacherous said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Will do.  It sounds like I don't want to use more than two at a time as well.


----------



## carlo (Jan 8, 2012)

We've been having some incredibly warm temps here in NJ and I'm not burning much so far. But as a supplement, instead of hassling with the wood (bugs, mess, etc) I was wondering about these bio bricks. The threads I've read have been very informative but there is one question I have.

What do these bricks smell like when burning ? Am I gonna have a funny smell permeating my home while burning these bricks ?

My bet is they also ignite easier than wood on those cold flue days which would be very nice for the occasional burner.


----------



## SmokeyCity (Jan 8, 2012)

I would not use them as a primary source - I used them as a suppliment or additive to enhance a burn or help get it started.


----------



## GAMMA RAY (Jan 8, 2012)

carlo said:
			
		

> We've been having some incredibly warm temps here in NJ and I'm not burning much so far. But as a supplement, instead of hassling with the wood (bugs, mess, etc) I was wondering about these bio bricks. The threads I've read have been very informative but there is one question I have.
> 
> What do these bricks smell like when burning ? Am I gonna have a funny smell permeating my home while burning these bricks ?
> 
> My bet is they also ignite easier than wood on those cold flue days which would be very nice for the occasional burner.





I did not notice a smell from either the Bio bricks nor the Envis.


----------



## carlo (Jan 8, 2012)

no smell ...... that's good. i'm gonna try me a few of these thingys


----------



## spirilis (Jan 8, 2012)

If you pull them out of their package and stack 'em in a log rack or whatever, they do have a "sawdust" smell that gets in the room.  I don't mind since our stove is in a downstairs room that we don't use often.


----------



## fredarm (Jan 8, 2012)

I keep an open package in a old brass coal scuttle next to the fireplace.  I don't notice any smell except maybe a faint sawdust smell when I first open the package.


----------



## NWfuel (Jan 8, 2012)

Treacherous said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Treacherous, 
Come on by and I will give you some to try. The full unit of logs contain 16.5 million BTU's. Not 2 cords worth by east coast standards for BTU's but west coast Alder they compare to the 2 cords.
Thomas


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 8, 2012)

Thomas,

Thanks for the offer!  I'll try to stop by this week. I plan to be at my cabin next weekend so it will be a good test for me.

Regards,
Treacherous



			
				NW Fuels said:
			
		

> Treacherous said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## NWfuel (Jan 8, 2012)

Looking forward to hearing your results.
Thomas


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 9, 2012)

I bought some bricks today at Country Max.

7 bucks for 23.4 lbs...I bought 2 of those packs.
Put 3 in a fairly warm stove and they worked good for 2 hours or so.
I would not buy them again..almost twice as much money has the eco bricks I bought at TSC before.
Theses things swelled up at least by 30-40% and after 3 hours were about done.
I only had flame o them for maybe 10 mins till they were going good then cut the air..the cat ate good for 2 hours is all.

http://www.aeshearthplace.com/Buy_Wood_Bricks.php


----------



## spirilis (Jan 9, 2012)

Yeesh, that's highway robbery (more than the bricks already are compared to cordwood).  $7/23.4lbs and they barely performed...

Woodbrickfuel is around $6/40lb for me, eco energy fuel blocks $3.50/24lb


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 9, 2012)

spirilis said:
			
		

> Yeesh, that's highway robbery (more than the bricks already are compared to cordwood).  $7/23.4lbs and they barely performed...
> 
> Woodbrickfuel is around $6/40lb for me, eco energy fuel blocks $3.50/24lb


I'm thinking they charged me wrong at Country Max.


----------



## Mainely Saws (Jan 9, 2012)

For me , if you can find the ECO bricks on sale at the Tractor Supply store at $2.99 per bundle that's a good way to go .


----------



## eclecticcottage (Jan 9, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> I bought some bricks today at Country Max.
> 
> 7 bucks for 23.4 lbs...I bought 2 of those packs.
> Put 3 in a fairly warm stove and they worked good for 2 hours or so.
> ...



Same price and experiance for us (except after we cut to about 1/4 open on the damper, they WENT OUT-as in, stove temps dropping and no secondaries or even glowing bricks-after about 1/2 an hour.  Had to reload with wood and some ecobricks to restart, and leave 1/2 open).  I'd never buy them again.  In fact, I'd only burn them if they were given to me and I didn't have anything else, including semi seasoned wood.  They seemed like absolute junk to me.

Maybe they sell two different types?  But I can say those little bricks in the 12 pack countrymax sells were an epic fail in our stove.  PLUS, I could smell the pine when we opened the package.  I LOVE the smell of pine...but not in a pack of compressed brick fuel that costs $7 for 23 lb.  I'll stick to ecobricks.


----------



## spirilis (Jan 9, 2012)

eclecticcottage said:
			
		

> HotCoals said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was this "WoodBrickFuel" or something different?  Just curious since I use that but primarily as starter/stove warmer/kindling/short fires (and it works well for that IMO)...


----------



## nola mike (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm still looking for an ECO Brick alternative in VA--I liked them a lot, but would like a (cheaper) alternative.  I'd bite at $3/package, but I'm guessing they won't go on sale until after the season.


----------



## eclecticcottage (Jan 9, 2012)

spirilis said:
			
		

> eclecticcottage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ours was, found it via the locator on the same site you've got in your sig.  

It was no where near as compressed as Ecobricks.  We use scotch pine for kindling, so I don't need the bricks for it.  Actually, if we don't go from start up/kindling to wood to bricks and instead go straight to burning the bricks, we can skip the kindling altogether and just use a few starter sticks of pine.  We did find the ecobricks burn nicer if we get them on a nice coal bed, but they don't need them.


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 12, 2012)

NW Fuels said:
			
		

> Looking forward to hearing your results.
> Thomas



Thomas,

It was a pleasure finally meeting you in person yesterday.  Thanks again for the samples and I will report back after the weekend.

Regards,
Treacherous


----------



## begreen (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll watch for the glow on the horizon.  ;-)


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 12, 2012)

[/quote]
*Was this "WoodBrickFuel*" or something different?  Just curious since I use that but primarily as starter/stove warmer/kindling/short fires (and it works well for that IMO)...[/quote]
Yes.


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 27, 2012)

NW Fuels said:
			
		

> Looking forward to hearing your results.
> Thomas



Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you.

I'm definitely going to pick up a pallet of these from you in the spring.  3 feet of snow on the ground at cabin so too hard to get that in until spring.

They increase my overnight burns dramatically.  I burn primarily Douglas Fir so having something that emulates a hard wood is very appealing.  Last night I had nearly an 11-12 hour burn with lots of hot coals and a 300 degree stove top when I reloaded this morning.  

I am so sold  They hold together really well too.

http://www.northidahoenergylogs.com/


EDIT:   This was a long burn with one Idaho Energy Log and the rest Douglas Fir.


----------



## begreen (Jan 27, 2012)

They are the original and still one of the best. We are very lucky to have two of the best options available here.


----------



## Huntindog1 (Jan 29, 2012)

HotCoals said:
			
		

> I bought some bricks today at Country Max.
> 
> 7 bucks for 23.4 lbs...I bought 2 of those packs.
> Put 3 in a fairly warm stove and they worked good for 2 hours or so.
> ...



If we could figure out how to use wood pellets they are 3.99 for a 40 lb bag.

Some one makes stainless steel tubes to fill with pellets to make like a pellet log.

An initial investment but if pellets per pound are cheaper then it would pay off.

I would like to have 2 of them and uses one as an addition to my wood splits then have one ready for reload.


----------



## Mainely Saws (Jan 29, 2012)

Wood pellets at $3.99 per 40# = 10 cents per pound , Eco bricks on sale at Tractor supply at $2.99 per 24# = 12.4 cents per pound .


----------



## Black Jaque Janaviac (Jan 29, 2012)

Would the economics of bio-bricks change if you made your own?

Check out this thread - https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/89617/

Evidently making wood bricks is not as complicated as it may seem.  At first I was thinking I might need to make a modification to a hydraulic splitter.  However these wooden lever presses look like they're darn quick.  Now I would imagine once dry these things could not be stacked in the sun and rain so would require a dedicated shed or garage corner.


----------



## begreen (Jan 29, 2012)

I think you would have to spend most of your time pressing enough of those little soft cakes to burn 24/7. I searched around for reports on a season of burning these homemade bricks and didn't come up with anything. It makes me a bit skeptical about their practicality with regard to burn times and total heat.


----------



## wkpoor (Jan 29, 2012)

I did the math for my situation, and even through I like the way they performed in my stove, they make no sense as a sole form of fuel. I could heat cheaper on the gas.


----------



## richg (Jan 29, 2012)

Huntindog1 said:
			
		

> HotCoals said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Energex used to make a basket so you could burn pellets in a wood stove (actually, a pellet stove IS a wood stove, but....)  It was called the Prometheus and it didn't work very well. They stopped making it about ten years ago, but you can still find knockoffs on Feebay. I had one in a non-EPA stove and while it was kind of convenient for the shoulder seasons, but definately not something I'd use in the dead of winter.


----------



## Huntindog1 (Jan 29, 2012)

sometimes I have seen 40 lb bags of pellets on sale for 2.99


----------



## SmokeyCity (Jan 29, 2012)

GAMMA RAY said:
			
		

> I play around with the envi-bricks. I have used the eco bricks too but TSC is out of them until next year.
> Sometimes I get some that seem to snuff out....even on a good coal bed. I have to wonder if it is because of moisture absorbed in some of them. The last couple of packs I got are not burning well and look a lil different..and they look bigger. I am going to question the guy at the stove shop about it. I never noticed that with the ecos...just the envis.....



The ECO-BRICKS (as from TSC) are the best version of the compressed sawdust product.  They seem to be consistent in their quality control etc.
Love 'em as a supplement to a stove full of hardwood to get the box hot quickly and get into the clean burn zone ASAP.


----------



## Chettt (Jan 29, 2012)

So we all agree that these would be a hit if they only produced the one kind that Tractor Supply sells, only charged $1.99 per pack and actually had enough in stock so that we could all buy them. 

If they get too popular, the government might outlaw firewood and put a $.50 cent tax on each package.


----------



## HotCoals (Jan 29, 2012)

Chettt said:
			
		

> So we all agree that these would be a hit if they only produced the one kind that Tractor Supply sells, only charged $1.99 per pack and actually had enough in stock so that we could all buy them.
> 
> If they get too popular, the government might outlaw firewood and put a $.50 cent tax on each package.


I believe you have it right!


----------



## SmokeyCity (Jan 30, 2012)

if the ECO-BRICK Co. looks like they are going under then they also must get a bailout.


----------



## eclecticcottage (Jan 30, 2012)

Chettt said:
			
		

> If they get too popular, the government might outlaw firewood and put a $.50 cent tax on each package.



Hush now, don't give anyone any ideas!!


----------



## begreen (Jan 30, 2012)

If this thread doesn't get back on track the local constabulary is going to ash can it.

(Grumbling mod with no Tractor Supply stores in WA or OR states  >:-(  )


----------



## markinpdx (Jan 30, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> If this thread doesn't get back on track the local constabulary is going to ash can it.
> 
> (Grumbling mod with no Tractor Supply stores in WA or OR states  >:-(  )




Hey, somewhat back on topic, here in Portland OR I've tried out both the Bear Bricks and the N. Idaho logs. The N Idaho product is MUCH more dense and therefore lasts much longer. I haven't figured out the relative cost per btu, though; the Bear Bricks are about 50 cents a brick while the logs are $1.20 per log.


----------



## paredown (Jan 30, 2012)

For a combination of reasons, mostly to do with the h3ll of house renovation while you live in it, I am on my second season with the Wood Brick Fuel--they are what I can find close by the pallet.

Even at $300+ with tax, they are still cheaper than our natural gas--and the living room is wonderful in the evenings with the stove fired up. And buying firewood around here is expensive ($225/cord and up) and I have not found anyone I would do business more than once.

I do the 'teepee' arrangement with four bricks to start, & use a 1/4 of a super cedar under each side & I can get the stove up to temp pretty quickly. While I have trouble getting a super hot fire, a stack of six or nine added when up to temps and once started can be damped down and will give a nice slow fire. Quality is pretty decent, but it sounds like I may have to try the bio bricks--the Wood Bricks are softwood (and?) and do crumble/expand--although this is not a problem if you don't over fill, and you are a light-it, leave it kind of burner.

I have probably 2 cords of oak that is seasoning, and a couple of cords of mixed hardwoods in the same state, plus I have a couple of ash trees that have the borer that will be coming down soon, so I should be back on the wood program next year. But I will probably lay in a pallet of the bricks for supplemental and/or wife's occasional fire tending.

Edit to add: One thing I noticed this year is that renting a splitter has become really expensive & for those of us who have not acquired on, you need to add that into the cost structure too. Hopefully by next year I will have found a decent splitter that I can afford.


----------



## Treacherous (Jan 30, 2012)

Pics of North Idaho Energy Logs operation

Info about the company

About $1.15/each for the Idaho logs when purchased by the pallet. I'm gonna pick up a pallet of them after the spring thaw.



			
				markinpdx said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## spirilis (Feb 23, 2012)

paredown said:
			
		

> I do the 'teepee' arrangement with four bricks to start, & use a 1/4 of a super cedar under each side & I can get the stove up to temp pretty quickly. While I have trouble getting a super hot fire, a stack of six or nine added when up to temps and once started can be damped down and will give a nice slow fire. Quality is pretty decent, but it sounds like I may have to try the bio bricks--the Wood Bricks are softwood (and?) and do crumble/expand--although this is not a problem if you don't over fill, and you are a light-it, leave it kind of burner.



Far as I'm aware (and they make this claim) Wood Brick Fuel is 100% hardwood, not softwood... I think the relative flakyness/crumblyness of the bricks has to do with the consistency and size of the source sawdust they use.  Finer sawdust tends to make a denser/more consistent brick as I've seen (with the other product I use, Eco-Energy Fuel blocks).


----------



## BrianK (Feb 23, 2012)

Has anyone tried the EcoBlock or BIO BLOCKS Compressed Firewood from the manufacturer in East Orrville, OH?
http://www.eco-blockfirewood.com/



> 2. What is the difference between BioBlocks and EZ Bricks?
> 
> The two brands are made nearly identically.  The difference comes in the size.  EZ Bricks are a large (10â€³x4â€³) block.  BioBlocks are smaller (3.75â€³x 5.75â€³).  EZ Bricks are wrapped 6 per pack and BioBlocks are 12 per pack.  BioBlocks are also available in bulk, meaning they can be sold on a skid unwrapped (individual bricks).


Their prices seem very competitive:


> Individual Pack of EZ-Bricks or BIO BLOCKS  $3 cash or credit card
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It would be too far to drive just to buy a skid load, but I have to go to Cleveland for a conference next month, and if their compressed wood product is comparable to the EcoBricks from TSC, I'll take along the enclosed cargo trailer and bring home a ton.

Anyone have experience with these BIO BLOCKS or EZ-Bricks?


----------



## wkpoor (Feb 23, 2012)

I have both at my house right now. Just bought a ton of the EZs and paid a little more than you quoted. As for performance they seem to be about the same for me. I would just get best deal possible on either brand.


----------



## BrianK (Feb 23, 2012)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> I have both at my house right now. Just bought a ton of the EZs and paid a little more than you quoted. As for performance they seem to be about the same for me. I would just get best deal possible on either brand.



Have you compared them to the EcoBricks from Tractor Supply Company? Are they as dense?


----------



## wkpoor (Feb 23, 2012)

BrianK said:
			
		

> wkpoor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry I wasn't clear on my earlier post. I currently have the ecobricks and the ezbricks. other than how they are pakaged they appear similar, little different in color, but stove seems to gooble them just the same.


----------



## eclecticcottage (Feb 24, 2012)

spirilis said:
			
		

> paredown said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They may claim it, but the one pack we bought, you could smell the pine when it was opened-and we had no pine in the house.


----------



## BrianK (Feb 24, 2012)

wkpoor said:
			
		

> I currently have the ecobricks and the ezbricks. other than how they are packaged they appear similar, little different in color, but stove seems to gobble them just the same.



Thanks, good to hear that. 

Their site also has this at the top right:



> In stock: new XL Blocks $185/ton- big 7lb Block burns xtra long!



So I guess they have three different products now. I wonder if they're all from different manufacturers with differing densities/properties. After reading all these threads, I'll probably just play it safe and order the EZ Bricks as they seem comparable to the EcoBricks you're using.


----------



## wkpoor (Feb 24, 2012)

I don't use the bricks everyday. Just when I feel the wood needs a pick me up. Last night at 1AM I added 4 bricks to what was already in there which wasn't much and 10hrs later I was at 200 degrees. I know pretty cool but lots of coals that ignited the next load instantly. I still think they give awesome performance and help hold a long fire. Could I have done that on wood, sure, but I don't have any oak, elm, hickory or ash that is dry.


----------

