# My new TPO roof



## precaud

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Green Room or DIY, but I didn't DIM and it's the future of roofing (IMO) so here it is for the greenies.

After the mammoth snow we got last Xmas, my prior roof repairs got totally swamped causing significant damage to the plaster inside. Not good. It was time for the whole thing to be redone. This is a 77 year old house with the original coal tar roof and one reroof on top, and a foot of dirt on top of that. (Yes, one foot of dirt! The roof planks sit on 2"x12" joists on 18" centers.) Two roofs isn't bad for 77 years.

Because of the dirt, a more substantial repair with modern materials was ruled out - nothing I could put down myself would like being covered in dirt as time passed. So I decided not to do it myself, called out for bids, and got 5 companies to look it over and bid. Most of the local roofing "companies" all have the same last name (Lopez) and, it turns out, all process their proposals from one office onto different stationary, tweaking the final amount by a hundred or two to make them all look legitimately different...what a racket! Anyway, the bids ranged from $18,200 to $8,500, including the dirt removal. The four most expensive bids were for torchdown mod bit, the cheapest one was for TPO. I thought it curious that torchdown was more than double the cost. How could these good ole boys charge so much for old asphalt "technology" ? Well, it turns out, the answer is, because they can get away with it - by scaring people away from the "uncertainty" of using new materials (which really are better.) That was the essence of their pitch against TPO; it's "too new." The giveaway was that the bid amounts were inversely proportional to the intelligence level of the bidders.

After MUCH study and consideration (and many questions to the TPO guy) I went with him. His crew was great and did a very good job. You can see the attached pics. It's like having a shrinkwrapped roof. All that remains to be done is to put down the layer of ballast rock. I'll post a pic of that when they finish it.

Among the many "green" benefits of TPO is the approx. 92% reflectivity. When the sun is shining, it hurts my eyes to stand up there! Afternoon temps inside the house have dropped 2 degrees just from this one change. I love it.

Will post more impressions as they arise.


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## littlesmokey

Can you explain a little more? I have a Salt Box style building. It has half metal sheet roofing and half shingle. The shingle side is quite in rain storms and the metal is, well, not even comfortable for a black smith. Can this be layed over, or do you need a new sheath? I like the white to reflect the heat.


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## precaud

As long as the substrate is flat and sound, you can lay TPO over it. You can read more about it here:
http://www.facilitiesnet.com/BOM/Jul01/jul01envelope.shtml
http://www.rsimag.com/rsi/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=422430
http://www.allbusiness.com/construction/construction-buildings/563290-1.html
(this last article uses an unfortunate {for this group} analogy, but it's well-written.)

and there's even a youtube video of a self-install:
http://youtube.com/?v=oCV9y1qJuqk


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## littlesmokey

Precaud:
Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts? Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?


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## precaud

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?


If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.



> Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?


It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.


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## littlesmokey

precaud said:
			
		

> littlesmokey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.
Click to expand...


Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives? I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side. Shingles would not make it with any snow load, and I have a bunch of that. I  have been nursing a standing rib steel roof for ten years, it was done in the 40's (I think), but the nerves go each time I get a 30mph wind storm. Nails are gone, but I worry about the stainless screws in very old wood.


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## begreen

I can see using TPO for a flat roof, but I'm not so sure about a saltbox roof. Not that I'm saying it wouldn't work, but it sure would look odd.


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## precaud

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives?


I already wrote, the other quotes were for torchdown mod bit.



> I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side.


TPO is a good choice for low slope. For a pitched roof there are better choices, I'd think.


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## kevinmoelk

I'm surprised to see someone considering taking off a metal roof.  I'm considering adding one.  I think a metal roof is one of the best roofs you can have if done right.  Some people don't like the looks of them, but to each their own.  

Littlesmokey, tell us a bit more about your own set up, roof pitch, snow load, etc.  Adding a location would help.  Do you have pictures?  What problems do you currently face?  

-Kevin


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## elkimmeg

this type of roofing is used a lot on comercial roofs. ITs no so much the roofing but the color that reflects temps differences.

For years I have known the white roofs are cooler in summer.

One needs sunglasses to walk around up there, Snow Blind in summer

And I agree that was the way to go for your situation. Not a Dyi job, it takes many hands laying that roofing down.

 Can one use it on normal gable roofs, I supose so,  ITs that I have never seen it done,


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## precaud

River rock was put on yesterday, it's now finished. I like it.

Next job is to put a liner in one of the center chimney stacks for a woodstove in the basement.


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## Hogwildz

TPO/ or more commonly named 
Hypalon" roofing systems are not by any means new on the market. I used to put alot of those down in the 90's.
The seams are heat welded and then caulked over with a special caulk. As long as the mechanic welding the seams did not get it too hot or too cool, it will basically fuse the seams together. As far as being green, they are made of "Chlorosulfinated Polyethylene" which is a type of synthetic rubber. KInd of like the coal to electric plant debate.

If done properly you get about 10 yrs life out of it. With proper maintenance, maybe longer. The problem is, although UV resistant, after time the UV rays do break down the material. Causing it to shrink & pull apart. Also, as I said, if the person(s) welding the seams didn't do it correctly, they will open up. Many mechanics, if they see the seam didn't adhere as well as it should have, unfortunately will just caulk over the seam, which will not last very long after thermal expansion & contraction.

The ballast, or "stones" they put on top are what holds the roof on. Its the least expensive application in which to secure that membrane. I personally would have had it fully adhered, which is using a special bonding glue to glue the membrane completely down, except the overlapping seams of course, which must me heat welded.
There is a mechanically fastened system also in which screws & plates are set & driven every so many square foot, and at the seams. The they are patched over in the field of the roof, and heat welded in between the seam layers, or set underneath the membrane in long thin 6" or 9" strips of the material then the membrane back is glues to the strips. This is the middle ground of fully adhered & ballast. Mid expensive & mid reliable.
The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone. You can try & clean the membrane as best as possible after finding a leak, and it will never be clean enough to truly properly seal. Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily. And you won't know until its leaking. I used to hate doing repairs on ballast systems, they are just a PITA, and very tough to stop from leaking & sealing properly one they get that dirty.

Did they at least put some polyisocyanurate insulation sheets or ISO as we called em down over the decking before installing the membrane? The membrane itself has no "R" value, thats where the Iso comes in to play. The Iso plays two roles. One to protect from nails etc if they back out of the decking in time, or are slightly protruding at time of install of membrane. Secondly the Iso will give some "R" value to help keep your heat from escaping through the roof.

As far as torch down, Ive installed every commercial roofing system available up to my retirement from roofing in 2000. Torch down is not the worst, or best. Again it depends on the mechanic putting it down. IN BOTH torch down & Hypalon, if you get the seams or welded area too hot, its all over. There is no getting the lost material back. Only patching is to follow to correct the boo boo. Torch down IF properly installed, and I mean if, can last ten years, longer if regularly coated with aluminum coating to reflect UV etc. But if not properly put down, it will leak, and chasing leaks in any membrane system is a PITA. The leak is not always where the water is coming in below. It can travel underneath the membrane from across the roof, then drop in a low spots. I have seen many roofing companies & mechanics that think they could put these roofs down, and really not know what the hell they were doing. One key giveaway is when a person calls torch down...."rubber roofing", its NOT anywheres close to rubber roofing. Its called Modified Bitumen. Its either torched down, or cold applied with adhesive. Cold applied IMO is junk, as the seams fishmouth open & its very messy to put down. I never cared for it.

Rubber is just that, like an inner tube almost, both reinforced & unreinforced. EPDM technical termed. Last forever, but again seams & flashing made of a different rubber material for workability & to conform to corners etc will fail at about 10 yrs. The membrane itself lasts indefinitely. 

Look any of the technical terms up on google if you want to learn more.

I have personally put down miles of each of these roofing systems. Colleges, businesses, supermarkets, etc. I speak from personal knowledge and years of roofing.
I am NOT trying to put down you roof, or say one is better than another. These are all basically commercial roof systems. And they can be applied to residential.
NONE are new tech!! All are 20 or more years old technology. Hypolan is actually less popular in these parts due to the problems with it. And also since white EPDM or rubber has been around for years now.
Each has its own advantages & disadvantages. ALL have a normal life span of about 10 years, and if upkept and taken care of 15-20 or longer. The problem with the ballast system you have is it limits your ability to inspect & maintenance. Thats why your price was lower. Although the price you paid was about right for any of the systems. The other higher bids were way out of line.

As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane, which you just had 90% covered by the ballast or stone. I hope they put at least some 3" iso underneath there.

Sorry for the long drawn out blah blah blah. I just love when a topic I know much about comes up. I like to share what I know with others. I just wish I could have spoke with you before you made your decision. Theres many options & choices. Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheethed & shingled, or White FULLY ADHERED EPDM. At least then you could just redo the flashings every 10-15 yrs. Ballast, cheaper, but there is a reason for it. If you get leaks, you'll understand why.

Congrats & good luck on the new roof. Hope it lasts a long time for you.


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## Hogwildz

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> precaud said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> littlesmokey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives? I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side. Shingles would not make it with any snow load, and I have a bunch of that. I  have been nursing a standing rib steel roof for ten years, it was done in the 40's (I think), but the nerves go each time I get a 30mph wind storm. Nails are gone, but I worry about the stainless screws in very old wood.
Click to expand...


Tear the old metal off and replace with new. You can put polyiso insulation boards underneath to deaden the rain noise. Or tear metal off, beef up the framing put plywood decking down & shingle it. I have used rubber, torch down etc on back porch roofs, barrel roofs etc. But on the face of your home would look not so great. The neighbors might have something to say also. And there actually can be some ramifications in certain townships etc as to what you may use, or how it can look. On a god note, rubber, torch down & hypalon can be coated or "painted" with special rubberized coatings these days. Which you can get in different colors. But again, be ready to maintenance every few years.
If you can do shingles, I'd go that route, or go with metal again with some insulation board underneath to lessen the noise factor.


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## begreen

Very informative post Hog, I learned something. Thanks.

And I agree with your conclusion. I would insulate the roof to reduce noise and go with metal again for longevity. But if not metal, I'd go with a conventional shingle roof. It's available in light grey if the desire it to reduce it's heat absorbency.


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## Hogwildz

BeGreen said:
			
		

> Very informative post Hog, I learned something. Thanks.
> 
> And I agree with your conclusion. I would insulate the roof to reduce noise and go with metal again for longevity. But if not metal, I'd go with a conventional shingle roof. It's available in light grey if the desire it to reduce it's heat absorbency.



Glad to know I'm of use LOL.
Yes you can get a lighter colored shingle. They even make white, 3 tabs, but I'd stay away from them. 
As white anywhere on a house outside, does NOT stay white. Theres a nice gray dimensional shingle, the colors names differ from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Driftwood & weathered wood colors are usually the grayer colors. Theres one used to be called pewter also another grayish shingle.
I don't know much, but I do know roofing LOL. My back & neck remind me of that daily.
Well off to ride the hawg, I need some real air


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## precaud

Hog, I don't doubt your experience, but there's too many factual errors to let pass uncorrected.



			
				Hogwildz said:
			
		

> TPO/ or more commonly named "Hypalon" roofing systems are not by any means new on the market.


Sorry, wrong... Hypalon and TPO are different materials. TPO is more akin to polypropylene. Oh, and I didn't say they were new on the market.



> As far as being green, they are made of "Chlorosulfinated Polyethylene" which is a type of synthetic rubber.


Hypalon, which was used in the 80's, is CSPE or Chlorosulfonated polyethylene, and is not recyclable. TPO is non-chlorine based thermoplastic polyolefin and has been on roofs for about 10 years, and is recyclable.



> If done properly you get about 10 yrs life out of it. With proper maintenance, maybe longer. The problem is, although UV resistant, after time the UV rays do break down the material. Causing it to shrink & pull apart. Also, as I said, if the person(s) welding the seams didn't do it correctly, they will open up. Many mechanics, if they see the seam didn't adhere as well as it should have, unfortunately will just caulk over the seam, which will not last very long after thermal expansion & contraction.


That was the rap on Hypalon roofs. TPO is faring much better, especially here in the Southwest.



> The ballast, or "stones" they put on top are what holds the roof on. Its the least expensive application in which to secure that membrane... There is a mechanically fastened system also in which screws & plates are set & driven every so many square foot, and at the seams. The they are patched over in the field of the roof, and heat welded in between the seam layers, or set underneath the membrane in long thin 6" or 9" strips of the material then the membrane back is glues to the strips. This is the middle ground of fully adhered & ballast. Mid expensive & mid reliable.


I was given a choice, and I chose the ballast over the mechanically adhered. In my view, the fewer holes, the better. And in the off chance that sparks come out of the chimney, I'd rather they fall on rock...



> The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone.


There's not that many stones... and they're not small... 1-1/2 to 3 inches... it's a minor inconvenience, in my opinion.



> Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily.


"Very easy" is an exaggeration... this material is very tough.



> Did they at least put some polyisocyanurate insulation sheets or ISO as we called em down over the decking before installing the membrane? The membrane itself has no "R" value, thats where the Iso comes in to play. The Iso plays two roles. One to protect from nails etc if they back out of the decking in time, or are slightly protruding at time of install of membrane. Secondly the Iso will give some "R" value to help keep your heat from escaping through the roof.


There is a base sheet laid first, then the TPO. There was no need to insulate the deck, as there is R50-R60 in the ceiling below.



> NONE are new tech!! All are 20 or more years old technology. Hypolan is actually less popular in these parts due to the problems with it.


Again... TPO is NOT Hypalon... noone around here uses Hypalon any more.



> As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane


I never stated otherwise.... sheesh.



> which you just had 90% covered by the ballast or stone. I hope they put at least some 3" iso underneath there.


Studies by Oak Ridge Nat'l Labs show that the 'heat load vs. time' curve is only 'flattened out' for the ballasted vs unballasted white TPO. I can dig up the link if you wish.



> I just wish I could have spoke with you before you made your decision. Theres many options & choices.


My choices were more limited than you think; hot mop, torchdown mod bit, or TPO. I think I chose best.



> Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheethed & shingled,


Shingles on a low-slope roof? That would be a disaster...



> or White FULLY ADHERED EPDM.


White EPDM has not fared well in this part of the country, with UV breakdown much earlier than expected. What they learned is it's the 'carbon black' that gives EPDM it's UV resistance.



> At least then you could just redo the flashings every 10-15 yrs. Ballast, cheaper, but there is a reason for it. If you get leaks, you'll understand why.


We'll touch base in 10 years, which is when the warranty expires...


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## littlesmokey

Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense. 

Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.


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## Hogwildz

Hypalon, which was used in the 80's, is CSPE or Chlorosulfonated polyethylene, and is not recyclable. TPO is non-chlorine based thermoplastic polyolefin and has been on roofs for about 10 years, and is recyclable. 



> *TPO roofing membranes have been in service in Europe for approximately ten years. The first appearance of a "TPO-type" roofing product in the United States was around 1987. As yet, little is known about their durability. You were only off by 10yrs. unless you live in Europe, no biggie.
> TPO membrane, reinforced and non-reinforced, is 100 percent recyclable "DURING THE PRODUCTION PROCESS". *





> *While you are correct to a degree, both are from the same family, but I am not going to have a long drawn out debate.*




That was the rap on Hypalon roofs. TPO is faring much better, especially here in the Southwest.



> *Same installation method, same heat sealing method. Again, good mechanic= good seams, untrained of unseasoned mechanic= bad seams. I am not knocking your roof or the installers. Time will tell if they knew what they were doing or not.*



I was given a choice, and I chose the ballast over the mechanically adhered. In my view, the fewer holes, the better. And in the off chance that sparks come out of the chimney, I'd rather they fall on rock...



> *Very good point regarding sparks, no argument there.*





> The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone.


There's not that many stones... and they're not small... 1-1/2 to 3 inches... it's a minor inconvenience, in my opinion.



> *There is a required rock thickness for wind rating, for around an I90 rating I think its is about 3" of stone give or take 1/2". I know what the stone is, I have humped and put down many many 1000's of sf of the stone. Its river rock. Dredged up from rivers and cleaned & screened for debris. I have occasionally come across a bad batch here and there that had wire, delaminated stone etc in it. Not saying that is the case with your roof, and it is more rare to have that problem than actually have it. Now, if you ever have to rake it back to find a leak, you will understand my point. Hopefully you won't. Even then you need a special rake made for pulling & pushing the stone or you WILL puncture the membrane. No its not paper thin, but its at best either .045 or the heavier .060 thickness. It may or may not be reinforced, which is a cross pattern of strong synthetic thread sandwiched in between. Any sharp or pointed object will have no problem penetrating it if one is walking around up there and steps on that object and its pointed at the membrane. Will it def happen?, maybe not, but I have seen it happen. And hope you never need to patch that roof. I have, and it ain't fun or easy. That rock does hold dirt & debris from the air and without using a solvent you won't get that membrane clean enough to adhere a patch to. Its a bandaid at that point which will come off in time.*





> Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily.


"Very easy" is an exaggeration... this material is very tough.  



> *If you have a left over pc, test your theory of how tough it is. Yes for non traffic conditions it will be just fine. I am basically saying when you go up to sweep your chimney, be careful of any sharp stone if there is any, they WILL puncture that membrane easier than you think. I car tire is even tougher, but when a mail, screw or even long enough sharp pc of glass or anything sharp will poke through the tire & the inner tube if it has one. Do you thing that membrane is tougher than a tire? Again, just be cautious and you'll be fine. Don't and you see how much moving stone to find a leak sucks.*




There is a base sheet laid first, then the TPO. There was no need to insulate the deck, as there is R50-R60 in the ceiling below.



> *Base sheet helps yes, as long as they hammered any high nails from the deck down. If its nailed down of course. If its concrete the base sheet protects from any lil points of the concrete if any. Again not saying it will happen with your roof, but if nails are used for wood decking, & they back out, they can in time back right through the membrane, no matter what membrane you use.*



Again... TPO is NOT Hypalon... noone around here uses Hypalon any more.


> *Yes you are correct, the two are different in many ways, but also similar in others. I will concede that TPO does have some better characteristics than Hypalon.
> So looks like you made an informed decision, kudos to you.*





> As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane


I never stated otherwise.... sheesh.

Studies by Oak Ridge Nat'l Labs show that the 'heat load vs. time' curve is only 'flattened out' for the ballasted vs unballasted white TPO. I can dig up the link if you wish.


> *I have no clue what your trying to say here, save the link, It ain't on my house *



My choices were more limited than you think; hot mop, torchdown mod bit, or TPO. I think I chose best.


> *Good old fashioned tar would have lasted 20-30 years if properly maintained. And cheaper to install.*





> Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheathed & shingled,


Shingles on a low-slope roof? That would be a disaster...


> *Thats why I said ", then sheathing put on & shingles...hint hint, the framing would have been to build the slopped deck  That creates the pitch needed.*



White EPDM has not fared well in this part of the country, with UV breakdown much earlier than expected. What they learned is it's the 'carbon black' that gives EPDM it's UV resistance. 



> *All these roofs can be coated to protect from UV, in any color you want.*


We'll touch base in 10 years, which is when the warranty expires...[/quote]



> *Thats why the warranty is 10 yrs. Thats alot of money for a 10 yr warranty. With shingles, you could have gone 30,40, 50 & up.
> Enjoy the new roof[[/*


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## Hogwildz

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense.
> 
> Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.




Go to your local hardware store, they have paint & primer specifically made for metal & tin roofing. You can use a roller to put it on. If you have the wide panels you can get an 18" roller dad & cage.

Is it a standing seam roof, or corrugated ?


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## Hogwildz

Precaud,
I am, sorry if you took my original post as an attack. You corrected me on a few things, and I thank you.
Remember, you can find the argument  & answer to both sides of any question online.
I am sure your roof is a good one, and hope it lasts many years.
Good luck, I will not be posting any replies to you responses on this subject.
I am willing to answer anyones roofing questions they may have. I may not have all the answers, but I will answer what I can.
Most important  other than knowing how to install a roof, is knowing how to stop a leak quick! , then permanently.


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## littlesmokey

Hogwildz said:
			
		

> littlesmokey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense.
> 
> Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to your local hardware store, they have paint & primer specifically made for metal & tin roofing. You can use a roller to put it on. If you have the wide panels you can get an 18" roller dad & cage.
> 
> Is it a standing seam roof, or corrugated ?
Click to expand...


Roof is a standing rib, but a real old seam style, it is better than corragated, but not as good as a true standing rib. Actually I think the rear 2/3rds of the building were a mail order package. Seriously, the windows are metal casings, metal siding and metal roof everythig is based on two feet even. I think they ordered it by section and did the assembly from the REA crates. The exterior siding is original on the Southside, but the building butts to another with a two foot space, the rest has been sided in the last fifteen years. Kind of nostalgic, but it's tight and weather resistant. 

I'm in rural South East Idaho, and deal with two seasons of weather , Winter and June - July. If things work the way the manager at the paint wholesaler I may get all the material free, and a patch test to boot. Seems he thinks the idea is a good one to sell longer lasting paint to farmers and ranchers metal outbuildings.


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## begreen

lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )

If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.


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## littlesmokey

BeGreen said:
			
		

> lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )
> 
> If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.



Figured out how to add location, but when you live beyond the pale of any town, it's hard to give a location. So I teased the issue and said where I think I would like to call home, far West Wyoming? Too North Utah? (Oh, that doesn't work) Spitting Distance to Colorado? AAAHHHH. I burn local pine, and pinion/cedar, if it's real old, but the local abundant crop is Aspen. I think it stinks, burn terrible with no heat, but the burls make great bowls. I can go North and get some Tamarack, fir and lodgepole, but the local stuff does the job. Besides, I don't ever have to buy Pinesole for that whole house fresh scent.


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## keyman512us

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> BeGreen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )
> 
> If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Figured out how to add location, but when you live beyond the pale of any town, it's hard to give a location. So I teased the issue and said where I think I would like to call home, far West Wyoming? Too North Utah? (Oh, that doesn't work) Spitting Distance to Colorado? AAAHHHH. I burn local pine, and pinion/cedar, if it's real old, but the local abundant crop is Aspen. I think it stinks, burn terrible with no heat, but the burls make great bowls. I can go North and get some Tamarack, fir and lodgepole, but the local stuff does the job. Besides, I don't ever have to buy Pinesole for that whole house fresh scent.
Click to expand...


It really amazes me how "hearty" 'western woodburners' trully are...(I lived in Colorado for four years). Not much fuel in them thar' forrests. Good thing is you guys can put a lot of "old pine wives' tales" to rest. I hear the stories all the time and tell people "go out west...your attitude about pine will change".

A friend of mine back in Colorado has a nice little spread...with a fireplace or two. One trip out I brought him some "display firewood"(snow white paper birch). A short while latter, talking with him on the phone, he jokingly stated "Hey you were right...someone stopped by the other day and commented 'that is the most beautifull ASPEN firewood I have ever seen..Where did you find that?'..."


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## Hogwildz

Roof is a standing rib, but a real old seam style, it is better than corragated, but not as good as a true standing rib. Actually I think the rear 2/3rds of the building were a mail order package. Seriously, the windows are metal casings, metal siding and metal roof everythig is based on two feet even. I think they ordered it by section and did the assembly from the REA crates. The exterior siding is original on the Southside, but the building butts to another with a two foot space, the rest has been sided in the last fifteen years. Kind of nostalgic, but it's tight and weather resistant. 

The old style standing seams were completely hand formed. I had the fortunate opportunity to work for an old timer that did everything the old fashioned hand made ways. I had the privilege to do several hand formed standing seams metal roofs. The panels were made out of Terne coated tin. , bent at shop on a break. then taken to the job & each panel installed with the same tin material into clips. The clips are nailed to the roof, then bend up and follow the panels raised edge and then bent back over the edge and down. The next panel butts against the first panel's edge & the clip. The raised edge where the two panels meet with he clip sandwiched in between is then hammered over a dolly to form a 90°  bend, then hammered again against the side of the another dolly to bend it close to a 45° bend. Then these old scissor type kickers are used to finish the bend over to meet itself again using your foot to kick them closed over the seam. Then hand dollied once more and another complete bend over again. There is also soldering involved that uses an old charcoal cooker and old lead soldering irons heated with wood coals. Its a long tedious but very fun process. When complete it feels very accomplished to have made the entire roof by hand with only old tools. The entire roof started out merely as a roll of Terne coated tin, and finished as a beautiful roof that will last 50-or more years if kept up & kept painted.

It is basically a lost art. Its not taught anymore, except for maybe a few old timers and a very few willing apprentices with patience to learn.
Now standing seam roofs are made of painted galvanized, aluminum or galvalume an alum. coated galvanized. Usually they come with a 20 yr Kynar 500 finish paint. (its been a while, I might be off on the warranty time) and are fairly expensive, depending on which metal you use.
The new standing seam roofs  usually either snap locl one over the previous panel, almost like siding, or a baffle system that snaps over each set of raises ends in a seam. If anyone is looking at these roofs, this system should have the snap on baffle riveted or fastened to the seams. Otherwise in heat & cooling cycles the baffles actually slide down the seam due to the fact they are only clipped onto clips holding the baffle over the seam.

Then there is the less expensive barn roof type metal roofs which are more corrugated and the ends just overlap. Using neoprene washered screws to fasten them down. Some homeowners do use these on their homes. Its an economical way to re roof your home. But they can blow off easier & aren't the top choice for many.

Ok, enough type, I just loved working with metal & it really is an art. Its also fascinating to me how the old timers did things with hand tools only and no machinery.
Sorry long winded, I miss some things about roofing & working with metal is one of them.



I'm in rural South East Idaho, and deal with two seasons of weather , Winter and June - July. If things work the way the manager at the paint wholesaler I may get all the material free, and a patch test to boot. Seems he thinks the idea is a good one to sell longer lasting paint to farmers and ranchers metal outbuildings.[/quote]

You can't beat that deal. I suggest priming then at least 2 top coats. I did my old mans barn about 10 yrs ago and its still holding up today. I forget the brand of paint used, but it was made to go right over rust, neutralizing it, then top coat. Held up very well.
If you roof is solid & tight, then just make it look good again. No sense in fixing something that isn't broke. Keep it painted & may outlast you.


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## BrotherBart

I spent 10 years of my younger life one year as the bucket man on a hot mop crew. No pumps and pipes, a pulley and rope and then a five gallon bucket in each hand on top of Texas roofs in July and August. And every Monday morning of that year unloading the shingle trucks.

I never want to put on another roof as long as I live!


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## Hogwildz

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> I spent 10 years of my younger life one year as the bucket man on a hot mop crew. No pumps and pipes, a pulley and rope and then a five gallon bucket in each hand on top of Texas roofs in July and August. And every Monday morning of that year unloading the shingle trucks.
> 
> I never want to put on another roof as long as I live!



Amen BB, Ive done the bucket thing & the pumper thing, mop man, roll man, kettle man it all sucks. The hot roofing I do not miss.


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## Inspector911

TPO is the best, so easy to work with. You can build a deck on top of it. Some applications in the inter cities have homes with a small flat roof that allows for a platform also. These are great to build a deck on.


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## Eric Johnson

I owned a house with a standing seam tin roof once. Keep it painted and forget about it. Beautiful.


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## Hogwildz

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> I owned a house with a standing seam tin roof once. Keep it painted and forget about it. Beautiful.


Exactly, well maintained a metal roof with last generations.
Tops in  my book would be slate for longevity & beauty. But again must be maintained.
Then cedar, again must be maintained.
Asphalt & fiberglass shingles are basically maintenance free, but don't last as long as slate or cedar. They are getting them up there in warranty years though.
prices go in pretty much same order.
Old world metal roofs are truly an art.


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## Eric Johnson

There's a lot of slate roofs in northern New York and into New England. I agree, they're the best. Apparently, the weak link is the quality of nails and wire used to hang them. If they used cheap fasteners back in the day, then they'll corrode over time and there goes your beautiful roof after 80 or 100 years. You also need a pretty good frame to hang all that weight on.

Nearly all the roofs in the town I used to live in were standing seam tin affairs. Apparently, early in the 20th Century there was some concern about fires (probably from all the wood stoves and boilers) and everybody went with metal roofing. Mine was laid over cedar shingles. I painted it myself--once. What a pain; I'll never do that again.

I've got a couple of asphalt roofing projects in my future, Hogwildz. I'll be sure to check in with you before I start.


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## Hogwildz

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> There's a lot of slate roofs in northern New York and into New England. I agree, they're the best. Apparently, the weak link is the quality of nails and wire used to hang them. If they used cheap fasteners back in the day, then they'll corrode over time and there goes your beautiful roof after 80 or 100 years. You also need a pretty good frame to hang all that weight on.
> 
> Slate roofs back in the day were a big east coast thing. Most of the slate quarries are in the east. Back in the day, all flashings were made of copper, & soldered when needed with hand irons heated in a small little home made hot pot. Almost like a 5lb coffee can sized mini stove. The irons are a piece of lead shaped into a point held buy a steel rod with a wooden handle. In the "hot pot" wood charcoal was heated and kept glowing to heat the irons. there is a front door to clean out and a sliding lid on top to regulate the draft, actually both regulated draft. Its pretty cool. I did several tin/copper & lead coated copper roofs with these.  The solder comes in bars. I think they are a pound tp pound & a half bars. Its been a while.



*The problem with fasteners was less as existent back then. The fastener or nails were also made from copper. Which lasted as long if not longer than the slates.
Its when folks got cheap and used steel nails or even galvanized nails that the nails would fail prematurely. When you mention wire, I can only think of the hooks used when replacing single or very small areas of slate that  do not afford one to access to the nails underneath the remaining existing slates. Instead, the slate above was shifted over at the bottom, they actually do move a couple inches either way this way. then a hole is punched a couple 2"-3" through the slate below the one slid over (which is also the slate in the course below the one being replaced. a copper wire bent in a long almost but not quite an "S" is hooked into the hole, the new replacement slate slid up over the wire past the lower hook and slid back down to rest in the hook. The other method which is a lil easier is then slide the new slate in place, spread the two slates above a lil, then punch a hole through the new slate, then insert a nail into the lath below to hold it. Then slide a slightly curved pc of metal up over the nail and under the next course above, pretty much unnoticeable from the ground.  I'll attach a photos of these two methods along with a wrong method. No I didn't draw them, just found them as example. Wallah, done. Of course a big job of several hundred all separate areas is not so wallah, and very time consuming. 

For anyone thinking about a slate roof. There are several colors , mixed colors and several styles or actually areas they are quarried. Vermont is known for green slate. New York I believe a more blue & gray with some red also, (been a while). Same in PA as New York,. PA also had what was called Pennsylvania slate. It had a diagonal grain & pattern unlike the others. Very cool looking, but very brittle and does deteriorate faster than normal. It breaks & delaminates along these diagonal lines. Slates come in several thicknesses also. Anywhere from 3/8" to I think 1-1and1/4". Different widths & heights also. Uses basic substrate as cedar. A heavy true 1"x3" lath system. They make a pretty good fake slate these days also.*

Nearly all the roofs in the town I used to live in were standing seam tin affairs. Apparently, early in the 20th Century there was some concern about fires (probably from all the wood stoves and boilers) and everybody went with metal roofing. Mine was laid over cedar shingles. I painted it myself--once. What a pain; I'll never do that again. 

*Best way I have found to paint them is with a roller. Use a brush at the seams & rioll the field in between the seams. 
As you can tell I am still a tad passionate about roofing LMAO. Once a roofer, always a roofer I suppose.*

I've got a couple of asphalt roofing projects in my future, Hogwildz. I'll be sure to check in with you before I start.


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## Eric Johnson

I was a passenger in a car driving through Vermont and eastern New York State yesterday, Hogz, and I snapped some shots of some roofs for your viewing pleasure.

It's hard to get good shots from a moving vehicle, but some of them turned out OK.


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## Hogwildz

Beautiful pics Eric!
Its views like that, that do make me miss roofing at times.
Slate roofs are no picnic to put on, tedious & slow, but so nice looking when done.
Nice photo of that metal roof. The lines of the standing seams on a standing seam roof, just always catch ones eye.
Not to mention the vertical lines are slimming for the width challenged roofs 
I still have not unpacked many boxes since my move last year. When I do, I will look for the photos of the last standing seam I did.
I think I took some in progress photos, I know Iat least too some of the pre paint, primer and finish coat.
I used to drive by that roof once in a while. About 9 years later I saw it was not upkept. And the paint was starting to peel. My bosses were a bit stingy on paint, so part of that was not the roof owners fault, but a problem of using a less expensive paint, which shows. Added with the dirt & debris collected in the build in gutter.
They never did one thing to clean or maintenance it. Oh well, at least I have the finish photos to remember.
Nice photos  I know now I am not the only one to be looking up at roofs wherever I go LOL. Habit
Thanks for sharing


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## Eric Johnson

Glad you liked 'em Hogz.

The porch placement in the standing seam photo is, IMO, a design flaw, at least this far north. Mine was like that. The problem is that in a bad winter you can get big chunks of ice and snow sliding off the top roof and onto the porch roof. When all that weight drops 8 or 10 feet with the momentum going away from the house, it tends to want to tear things up. Keeping a cold attic is one solution. An expensive venting retrofit is another. I opted for the cold attic (just leave the windows open). The guy who bought the house had the attic remodeled into a bedroom, but the contractor didn't bother to vent it correctly, so I think he's asking for trouble. Not my problem, I guess. I told him to specify a ridge vent, etc. in the contract, but it wasn't done that way.


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## Hogwildz

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> Glad you liked 'em Hogz.
> 
> The porch placement in the standing seam photo is, IMO, a design flaw, at least this far north. Mine was like that. The problem is that in a bad winter you can get big chunks of ice and snow sliding off the top roof and onto the porch roof. When all that weight drops 8 or 10 feet with the momentum going away from the house, it tends to want to tear things up. Keeping a cold attic is one solution. An expensive venting retrofit is another. I opted for the cold attic (just leave the windows open). The guy who bought the house had the attic remodeled into a bedroom, but the contractor didn't bother to vent it correctly, so I think he's asking for trouble. Not my problem, I guess. I told him to specify a ridge vent, etc. in the contract, but it wasn't done that way.



There is a much simpler solution to the upper snow sliding off onto the lower roof. I always used claws, or snow stops as some call them. They are as simple as plastic cleats with double sided tape on the bottom that stick to the panel face, to very ornate steel or aluminum cleats that are fastened same way or with solder or screws. Usually staggered up & down on each panel, a few feet from the bottom of the eave.
Some are fastened with a slit cut through the panel and the cleat mtg flange screwed or nailed to the lath underneath the panel. I stayed away from the last way. Hate putting holes in a perfectly good roof. The screw method can be trick also, a good sealant must be used between the cealt base & the roof panel face. The cleats work very well, and do hold the snow. They must be installed right & sturdy though as to not rip out of the roof.
The stick on ones can be tricky with a painted roof that has loose paint.
If you can get cleats on the roof, they will help alot.
Another help would be a gutter at the eave of the upper roof, fastened well with screwed in hidden hangers, it will hold the snow back on roof also. Without either, yes the snow will slide and in big slabs doing damage below.

Do a search on: metal roof snow guards and you'll see what I am talking about.
I just saw not they have a system that is a bar that goes across and is clamped to each seam, I'd like to see one of those up close. Good idea & no penetrations through the panel.   See link ----->  http://www.alpinesnowguards.com/


Sheesh I am editing the heck out of this post. You can alost attach snow cleats on with adhesive ( good strong caulk, construction adhesive, etc.) I used to use this stuff called Geocel that stuck to anything and was a real biach to get off


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## solman

To Master of Fire in New Mexico - Could you post your TPO installer name and phone /email.  I am about to specify TPO on a job in Taos but a previous client of mine had installation problems, ie inexperienced crew from Albuquerque.  Many thanks!


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## precaud

PM'ed to you.


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## jimo

To PRECAUD, thanks for the info, I too am getting ready to do a TPO install in Abq. and would appreciate info. on who you used, thanks
-Jim


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## DiscoInferno

Eric Johnson said:
			
		

> The problem is that in a bad winter you can get big chunks of ice and snow sliding off the top roof and onto the porch roof. When all that weight drops 8 or 10 feet with the momentum going away from the house, it tends to want to tear things up.



8 or 10 feet?  How about 30 feet?  The pic is my car from college, right after a couple hundred pound chunk of ice let go from the roof in the spring.  The result of a combination of an old house with no insulation and a freakish UP winter of both extreme cold and lots of snow.  I was 10 feet away through the basement wall, it sounded like a bomb.

I see I'm a little late on this thread, but just wanted to share...

I see those snow stops here in DC a lot, not sure why since it never snows.  I never saw them in the UP; I'm not sure how long they'd survive anyway.  People up there just shovel the roof off once or twice.  (Not my cheap landlords, of course!)


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## Gibbonboy

The snow dogs really only work to a point, then nothing will stop the slide. They stop "normal" snow around here, not sure how they'd do in an area that got more. They're certainly strong enough, should be too for 7 bucks each. 

Pennsylvania made the rule last year or before that if you don't clean your vehicle off, and someone is injured or property damaged by the snow/ice coming off your vehicle, you are criminally liable. Of course, it's one of those laws that's almost impossible to enforce- unless a cop sees the stuff coming off your vehicle, or someone has video, how do they prove it was you?


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## velvetfoot

Hello roofing experts, esp Hogwildz!

We bought our 4 year old house when it was two years old.  This'll be our second winter.

It has a fabral grandrib 3 screwed on metal roof, http://www.fabral.com/res-grandrib3.asp , and a porch on either side, which do take some pretty good hits when the snow slides.
Last winter the snow kind of stayed on the porch roofs.  I thought I'd try to push it off but it had stuck by that time.
For more info, this is what Fabral has on cleats (not too conclusive to me):  http://www.fabral.com/technical/Snow_Guards.pdf
We haven't had any problems that we can tell with the roof, save for the noise of the rain coming off the lower porch when the bedroom windows are open during the summer.
I've been resisting gutters, since we don't have any basement water woes (knock on wood), we have a little stone at the drip line,  and at least one local gutter guy wouldn't touch a metal roof 'cause he said the snow just rips 'em off.

Some questions:

1)  I know it's not a top-notch metal roof, but will this roof last?  It seems that a renewal of the screws/washers might be necessary at some point (when?) but along with painting, they're both probably a lot cheaper than a new roof.  Does the screw-on style have any advantage?

2)  Can gutters be installed on metal roofs?  I've looked at residential metal roofs while driving around and have not seen too many with gutters.

3)  Should I just let the snow pile up on the porches?  It eventually slides off in big globs, carrying the snow that already fell onto it from the main roof.  My attempt at pushing it (with a shovel through the windows!) was less than satisfactory, as I mentioned, and there's always the possibility of scraping through the paint.  Also, darned if I'm going to be walking around up there, on ladders, etc, at that time of year if I can help it.

4)  As far as snow cleats, so far the porches have taken the hits.  I like the idea of the snow shedding on the main roof too.  Are they necessary?  (I'm leaning towards status quo)

5)  Any tips for walking on this roof?  I'm going to try to NOT (eg, sweeping from below), but one thing I imagine would be that it be perfectly dry, and use some kind of rope/harness.  (I had an old row house in Reading, PA back in '76 or so, and would've killed myself if I didn't have a rope to grab onto when I slipped when coating the terne roof with shiney roof paint-yes I do believe it contained asbestos  )

5)  Any other suggestions?

Thanks.


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## Hogwildz

Some questions:

1)  I know it's not a top-notch metal roof, but will this roof last?  It seems that a renewal of the screws/washers might be necessary at some point (when?) but along with painting, they're both probably a lot cheaper than a new roof.  Does the screw-on style have any advantage?

*As with any roof, the better maintenanced, the longer it will last. Metal roofs are not alot of maintenance. Just keep the paint in good shape, which yours looks fine from the photo. The screws most likely have neoprene or rubber like washers. They are usually the first thing to need replacement. Which basically means the whole screw. The washers are not worth trying to remove from the screws to reuse the screws with new washers. The screws are fairly inexpensive. Of course they last quite a few years, and your roof from the photos looks pretty good. If ya look at the washers, if the are cracked, dry rotted, or deteriorating, time to replace, if not, your good to go. When the paint finally does start showing noticeable fade or rust starting, then repaint with proper metal paint. These metal type roofs are usually seen on barns, sheds, machinery buildings etc. But have become a much more used option for new roof for more & more residential homes in the last few years. Nothing wrong with these roofs. Economical, can get in many color choices, easy to install, easy to maintain. Is it the top of the line, no, is it the worst roof you could have, far from it. It looks good, keeps you dry, and if you don't mind the patter of rain etc, its fine. The screws should be driven through the top of the upward ribs. I have seen them screwed through the flat lower area on many roofs, and that asking for a leak when the washers let go. On the top of the ribs, even after the washers rot away, it will still be less likely to take in water. But I still recommend replacing the screws if/when the time comes. The barn that came with this house I bought last year has same type roof. Unfortunately, the previous homeowner used the real cheap stuff, several dif colors, and screwed it in ther low spots. But its and empty barn for now, so low on the list of things to do. I think your roof looks nice, looks to be in great shape from afar.*

2)  Can gutters be installed on metal roofs?  I've looked at residential metal roofs while driving around and have not seen too many with gutters.
*Gutters can be installed on metal roofs, but its basically a waste of time. You have to use roof hangers, which on a metal roof are screwed through the top face of the roof. And with enough ice weight, will rip the hangers from the metal, leaving holes where they once were.  Even through the lath underneath, the screws will eventually pull out for ice weight and down goes the gutter. If you have a solid face board (fascia) under the roof edge, thats the way to go. Or you can mount the hangers to the rafter tails if exposed. If you don't need the gutters, don't waste your money. There is a reason you don't see alot of metal roof with gutters 
*
3)  Should I just let the snow pile up on the porches?  It eventually slides off in big globs, carrying the snow that already fell onto it from the main roof.  My attempt at pushing it (with a shovel through the windows!) was less than satisfactory, as I mentioned, and there's always the possibility of scraping through the paint.  Also, darned if I'm going to be walking around up there, on ladders, etc, at that time of year if I can help it.

*There are several roof rakes out on the market for just this purpose.  Most have extension handles for far reaches. I'd try one of those. Depending on how much snow & weight is on the roof, You might want to get some snow off if its a wet heavy load.
 You can try the snow stops, if the roof is not taking a beating, and there is no danger involved where the snow slides off. I'd personally leave them off. Again, either adhering to the roof face, or worse yet screwing in through the roof to th lath or deck below. I am just a firm believer of putting least amount of holes in a perfectly good roof. Least holes = lesser chance of leaks down the road, when rubber or caulk deteriorates. If your going to use them, I recommend trying ones that are adhered, and use a good adhesive. Just keep in mind, years down the road, you might be readhering them. On the tin roofs, they were soldered on. Not many tin roofs around these days. Dying art.*
4)  As far as snow cleats, so far the porches have taken the hits.  I like the idea of the snow shedding on the main roof too.  Are they necessary?  (I'm leaning towards status quo)

*See above*

5)  Any tips for walking on this roof?  I'm going to try to NOT (eg, sweeping from below), but one thing I imagine would be that it be perfectly dry, and use some kind of rope/harness.  (I had an old row house in Reading, PA back in '76 or so, and would've killed myself if I didn't have a rope to grab onto when I slipped when coating the terne roof with shiney roof paint-yes I do believe it contained asbestos  )

*I suggest avoiding walking directly on the roof for a few reasons.
1. It will dent, buckle the panels.
2. They are easy to loose footing on and end up on the ground in a world of hurt.
3. Depending whats under the metal, if its just lath, good chance of going through.

Harness is an ok idea, but if you go through, its still going to hurt.
I suggest making a chicken ladder, they take your weight and also spread it out along the ladder to the roof. Much safer if you make one correctly.
I honestly have used many dif ones. I even have split an alum extension ladder in half & used the 2 slide brackets as the hooks for over the peak.
I would not do that anymore, and don't suggest it. You need something with a good enough reach over the peak and back to the other side.
Chicken ladders are the way to go for metal, slate and steep pitch roofs. 
*


5)  Any other suggestions?

*Keep her maintained when needed, which isn't a rel lot. And it will last 20-30 or more years.*


Thanks.[/quote


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## velvetfoot

Hogwildz, 
Thanks very much for your very complete and informative answers.
I appreciate it.
VF


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## Hogwildz

Anytime, glad to help, anytime. I might not know all the answers, If I have some knowledge, I'll share, if I don't know, I won't blow smoke up anyones arse, I'll just admit, I don't know LOL.


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## precaud

Talk about a hijacked thread... sheesh.


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