# Oiling exhaust fan on Whitfield Advantage IIT...



## somedumbname (Oct 28, 2010)

The manual for the Whitfield IIT (through all it's iterations) says...

*MOTOR LUBRICATION*

*Room Air Blower*: The room air blower is permanently
lubricated by the manufacturer.* Do not apply oil to any
part of the blower, doing so may cause damage*.

*Exhaust Blower*: The exhaust blower requires lubrication
every 6 months or yearly, depending on use, with not
more than two drops of 30 weight, SAE, nondetergent oil
at *the two lubrication points on blower*.

These two lubrication points are mentioned in every version of the manual but I have never seen them illustrated.

Where are these two lubrication points?

Anyone got a picture or diagram?


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## Cincinnati Kid (Oct 29, 2010)

I dont have a picture but on my Advantage Plus, it has two small black rubber pieces that cover the oil ports on top of the fan.  Simply pull them off and oil as appropriate.  They are a pain to get back into the port holes.


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## smwilliamson (Oct 29, 2010)

The motors are usually installed with the oil ports UP. Look on the motor casing fore and aft of the stator. There should be black plastic or rubber stoppers, they have a small hole in the center of them, but those are not weep holes, those are hallows so you can push and pull the plugs out. Add you oil and then reinstall the plugs. I use a small .005 allan key to pull em out and push them back in. If they are YELLOW, be careful. The yellow ones are vinyl plugs and most certainly will not come out in one piece and will never go back in. If they are yellow, I discard them.


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

Based on experience with electric motors over the years I expected to see the two rubber nubbies, but no.

That's why I asked for a picture or illustration.

Thanks for both the replies. Hopefully someone has a pic.


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## newdivision (Oct 29, 2010)

I would check the underside of the motor housing. I think I remember reading on here somewhere where some of the motors were put in with the oil ports facing down. You will have to take the motor off and rotate it half a turn to get the oil ports facing up.


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## Wood Heat Stoves (Oct 29, 2010)

fyi if the blower has ever been replaced it wont have oil ports more than likely


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## Northeaster2010 (Oct 29, 2010)

Check out the manual at this site it shows lub points on the both motors:

http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_pellet_stove.htm


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

I have owned this stove since new.

The motor has *never* been replaced.

The motor is *not* upside down with oil ports on the bottom.

The selling dealer included one free yearly service and I suspect he pulled the nubbies and did not put them back.
Regardless, there are *no rubber nubbies anywhere* and *no marked oil ports* (as I've seen on some motors).

There are a variety of holes in the motor housing and I won't drop oil down any of them until I KNOW which ones are the two oil ports

What I need is a picture or illustration of the two oil ports. If anyone can help with that I'd appreciate it.


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

Northeaster2010 said:
			
		

> Check out the manual at this site it shows lub points on the both motors:
> 
> http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_pellet_stove.htm



Thanks for pointing that out but I've already seen it... that illustration doesn't show the other holes that are also in the motor housing and I was hoping to be sure of the correct oiling holes.

Interesting that it says to oil both motors and the printed manual says "*Room Air Blower: The room air blower is permanently lubricated by the manufacturer. do not apply oil to any part of the blower, doing so may cause damage*".

Perhaps he posted instruction from the very early Advantage, as the picture of the cover shows, and Whitfield revved to a sealed bushing-bearing room air blower motor for the IIT.


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

OK 

I cleaned our Whitfield this morning (just a bit ago) and opened the side door and took some piccy's and oiled the motor

I use an Insulin Syringe with the 30 Wt or hight temp oil.
Use a finish nail about 2 inches long or suitable BLUNT pointed item that will fit into the plugs core to reinsert the plugs.

Here are the piccy's

Snowy


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

Snowy Rivers said:
			
		

> OK
> 
> I cleaned our Whitfield this morning (just a bit ago) and opened the side door and took some piccy's and oiled the motor
> 
> ...



You da man... thanks, and here's a tip for you and anyone oiling electric motors that are subjected to high temps... Mobil 1 works very well  to oil bushings-bearings where they are subjected to high temps.

Now, if I could find somewhere to get some rubber nubbies...


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## imacman (Oct 29, 2010)

somedumbname said:
			
		

> Snowy Rivers said:
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Snowy may use 30 wt., but most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil.

One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can.....( it's meant for electric motors).

http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

imacman said:
			
		

> Snowy may use 30 wt., but most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil.
> 
> One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can.....( it's meant for electric motors).
> 
> http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/



The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F.  http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf

Mobil 1 has a higher flash point of 437 degrees F which makes it more suitable for the exhaust fan.  http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.aspx

The exhaust fan motor on a pellet stove sees very high temps for a small electric motor.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 29, 2010)

somedumbname said:
			
		

> imacman said:
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You use the oil recommended by the motor manufacturer that recommendation takes into consideration how that particular motor is going to be used.   If the manufacturer says SAE 30 then that is what you use if they say graphite, well you get the picture.


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

What I have in the Syringe is a slight mix of 30Wt and some high temp turbine oil.

Local stove shop some years ago got me onto the mix.. Fellow had been a turbine tech in the Navy and had used this mixture on stove motors for years.


Follow what the Mfg says though, they are going to cover the warranty if it fails.

Snowy


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## imacman (Oct 29, 2010)

somedumbname said:
			
		

> The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F.
> 
> http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf....



While Mobil 1 may have a higher flash point and is a great oil, I think you need to read the MSDS sheet for the 3 in 1 oil that you referenced a little  closer.....it specifically says flash point is "*>350°F*" .


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

SmokeyTheBear said:
			
		

> You use the oil recommended by the motor manufacturer that recommendation takes into consideration how that particular motor is going to be used.   If the manufacturer says SAE 30 then that is what you use if they say graphite, well you get the picture.



With respect, a motor manufacturer may not know what the installation environment of their product will be. They manufacture to the contractor's specifications. May be pellet stove, intake or exhaust, or may be a thousand other environments.

One can cross a Fasco motor and never see it listed as "pellet stove exhaust" in a Grainger catalog... 

And there was no need for the snide _get the picture_ remark.


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

imacman said:
			
		

> somedumbname said:
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I stand corrected... Flash point specified *>350 degrees F* means that the oil will flash at no less than that temperature. That means the oil will ignite at 351 degrees F.


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

In regards to the oils used on these exhaust blowers.

The type of oil is important buttttttttttt can vary a lot and still be fine.

The oil needs to be able to tollerate heat well and not dry out/turn to a gum or evaporate.

High temp turbine oil is a great oil and will tollerate the heat real well.

These motors have two Oilite (TM) or sintered bronze busings/sleave bearings.

The oil soaks into the small pores in the bronze and thus lubricates the bearing.

The use of the oilite on the exhaust fan is pretty straight forward. The temperature is high enough and the conducted heat through from the impeller makes the use of a ball bearing less inviting.

The grease in a ball bearing, operating at high temps can cause the material to either run out or solidify into a hard mass with and "Channel" leaving the bearing basically dry.

The sleave bearing with ports to lube it are far more reliable.

Now this is not to say that a bearing that will stand the heat can't be used but, the cost is going to go North at warp speed.

The stove Mfg try hard to keep the costs as low as possible when they are building/designing the stove.

This is the same reason that the control boards are mostly built over seas now instead of the Mfg using off the shelf technology made here in the states.


Outfits like Fasco will build just about any blower to spec for an OEM

Fasco does not stock many of these blowers as an OFF THE SHELF item.

They may have something close but not exactly the same.

For a room air blower, there is a lot of lattitude as it just blows air and can usually be adjusted via a variable triac control "Knob"

The exhaust fans need to meet different specs/speeds etc and depending on the application will have a wide variety of mounting flanges and such.

Snowy


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

I did not see that the "GET THE PICTURE" remark was "Snide" just simply using it to mean Yeah , all the above and whatever else applies.

I would not take it as cutting or otherwise meant as a slam.

Just my humble opinion.

Snowy


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

Using a product like Aero shell 500/560 or 750 should be perfect.

These oils have a flashover point of between 500F to 680F and are designed  to perform in some fairly nasty environments.

This stuff will not "Coke" like regular engine oils will 

Regular oils can form some very nasty hard "Coal/carbon" like deposits when subjected to high heat.

This is why you see semi truck drivers letting their trucks idle after coming in to park.
This allows the turbo charger to cool down below "Coking" temperature.

A diesel engine generally uses a turbo with a hard bronze sleave bearing that is pressure lubricated with engine oil off the main lubricating system.

Not allowing the thing to cool can cause a mass of carbon to form in the bearing cartridge area and over time result in a failed bearing.


Just some interesting INFO.

Snowy


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## somedumbname (Oct 29, 2010)

The Mobil 1 tip was not my idea. The Mobil 1 tip was given to me by an engineer that was involved in the Advantage project way back when at Whitfield.

Since I know he knows more than me I'll take his recommendation and used Mobil 1.

I appreciate the pictures and will file them away.

Thanks to the forum.


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## Pellet-King (Oct 29, 2010)

Never oiled my fan, 12 yr's old, nonstop use nov-apr, it works fine why bother, those lil rubber plugs are a b!#$h


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 29, 2010)

The rubber plugs can be put back in quite easily using a little finishing nail.

Stick the head end of the nail into the plugs little port and then push the plug into the hole.
A little pressure on the nail and the plug will go right it. ZOOOOOOOOOP.

Snowy


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## SmokeyTheBear (Oct 30, 2010)

somedumbname said:
			
		

> imacman said:
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No it doesn't mean that at all.

I was going after the fact that you and imacman were not following the manufacturers recommendation and I have a very good reason to say exactly what I did.

Having a TOC of >350°F means exactly what it says, for natural oils the actual temperature that maintains a fire for more than 5 seconds is approximately 30°C above TOC flashpoint.

Now an example for everyone SAE #30 the recommended oil in Snowy's example has a TOC flash point of 475°F this is above the normal thermal shutdown temperature of a combustion blower motor.  The thermal shutdown will then lead to loss of vacuum which stops the pellet feed.

I'll leave the SAE #20 or 3in1 Blue can as an exercise for any interested reader.


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## Snowy Rivers (Oct 30, 2010)

The Mobil one is a good oil.

Now, lets not get all worked up about the oil we use catching fire in the stove.

The two little oilite bushing dont hold enough oil to drown a Mosquito    

The real issue here is that whatever oil is used be resistant to "COKING" or turning into a gummy goop or a hard coal like substance and thus loosing its lubricity.


Most any oil that has a temp rating of 400F or more and a viscosity of around 20W will work fine.

The oil used does not need a lot of special additives that we would use in an internal combustion simply because there are no real contaminants being introduced here.

Two little Oilite  (Sintered bronze) bushings that are in a fairly clean environment.

Goal is to keep the oil in  a liquid state and capable of lubricating is all.

These motors usually have a cooling fan between the HOT side impeller and the first bearing/bushing. This fan keeps the area reasonably cool.

The only real issue is the heat conducted up the shaft from the hot exhaust gases.


Personally, the 3 in 1 blue, Mobil one or just about any good lighter weight motor oil is going to do the job fine.


Lube the thing as mentioned in the book and dont lose a lot of sleep over those two little bushings.

As was mentioned previously, one person had not lubed their motor in 12 years.

Bet me that a goodly number of stove motors never get lubed AT ALL, and run the life of the stove just fine.

Myself, I like to hedge my bet a little bit and do the service work, just to make sure.



Probably the best oil you could use would be the High temp aircraft turbine oil, but the stuff is not a hardware store item.

Enough for now.


Snowy


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