# Help Find Good Outdoor Wood Gasification Boiler?



## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

Hey everyone!! I own a farm in Foster, RI. I have been heating my home with a wood stove in my house, using wood from my property for 2 years. I am sick of the mess inside my house, and want to install a outdoor wood boiler. 

I am looking to heat my 1200 square foot home, and 1200 square foot attached barn. I have forced hot water radiators I want to use, and no forced air ductwork. 

I am looking to burn a mix of hardwood and white pine as I have tons on the property. Due to budget constraints, I am looking for the best price for the best efficiency. 

Can you please make recommendations? 

I have a backhoe, so digging a trench for the pipes won't be an issue.  thanks!


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## SIERRADMAX (Aug 30, 2013)

Welcome. I live a town north of you.. Check with your town. I think Glocester banned owb's!


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

I already checked with my town, there are no regulations thankfully!  Thanks for the welcome!


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

Welcome!  Everybody got budjet constraints dont they now? Look at portage and main for OWB but they are $$$. Why not put in barn? For me indoor boiler and storage was same price as P&M.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

You will have to forgive me as I am new to this, and don't know your abbreviations and terminology. I am not opposed to putting one in my basement or barn, but the issue is that I want to burn semi-wet wood, and don't want creosote to burn my house down. Is this an issue with gasification?


I will also add that wet wood is not something I intend to do for a long time, I just am getting a start with purchasing the right equipment so that I can harvest wood more efficiently. It's been a slow going financial process, but I am getting there!


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## arbutus (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm newer here as well.

Wet/green wood will not work with gasifiers, and will not work well with traditional outdoor wood boilers.
Problems include lots of smoke, creosote, and corrosion of firebox and flue.

You will see repeated time and again, DRY WOOD is of utmost importance.  20% moisture content or less, with less being even better.
You may even receive the suggestion that you keep your current setup an extra year, stock pile next year's wood right now, and save your money up for a gasifier installation next spring or summer when they are on sale.


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## SIERRADMAX (Aug 30, 2013)

Start cutting/stacking/drying now. I would suggest an OWB if you plan on burning pine.


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

Owb- outdoor wood boiler
P&m- portage and main
Bottom line is that gasification requires dry wood. Around 20% moisture content. Ask and soft maple and some dead wood is a year c/s/s (cut split stacked), most other woods two years, and oak three years. This is a general guideline most use and longer is better. Wind and sun aides drying as does single row stacks off the ground.  The best part is how little wood a gasser will use. Use the search function on here and do a lot of reading. I reasearched for over a year before i had a solid gameplan put together.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks for all the excellent info. I have plenty of wood that is down and aged, but I need to get to it with the backhoe which I am sure I can do in time for the winter. 

Are there any OWB that are $5k or below?  

If I have to buy a few unsplit cords this year I can also, I have a splitter, it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than a tank of oil!


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

Down and aged means nothing if still in rounds. It dont really start to season until its split. I got some ash rounds this year from a buddy that had sat on top of a rock wall in full sun that were still at 28%mc. A $5k owb will likely be needing replaced within a decade. EKOs can be had for about that cost and last three times as long if not more. Several guys here running them for sure. My vedolux was $5800 on sale. But thats only half the cost after you figure in plumbing, storage, insulation, etc. be sure to check out the sticky up top about underground lines.


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

Brand New Econoburn Wood Boiler For Sale - Located in Putnam, CT

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/econoburn-150-brand-new.109661/


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

I did see that one on Craigslist, but it's out of my budget. The reason I wanted to install this year is to utilize my refinance that was just approved. I may end up having to buy a new indoor wood stove and using that this year instead. I don't know. Right now the stove is 60 years old, and a coal stove. Inefficient and not for wood, and no blower fan. The only issue would be my attached barn. I really want the goats to be warm, and even better if I can keep the dogs out there all winter too.


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## mikefrommaine (Aug 30, 2013)

SIERRADMAX said:


> I would suggest an OWB if you plan on burning pine


Why?


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## curtis (Aug 30, 2013)

If your budget is 5K, I would say wait until next year or when ever you can save up more money. Because you are not going to be able to setup a gassification boiler in a remote building and have it piped into your house properly for 5K. Im sure you could get a owb setup for under 5k but in my opinion it would be a waste of money if you really want a gassification boiler.


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

I understand. I am willing to barter or trade for it if you have anything of interest. I would need to get at least 1/2 in cash but I would take guns, snowmobiles, ATV's, newer equipment on trade...what do you have?

This will make a great deal for someone, we are going to be moving in December and didn't have a change to hook it up.

I have (2) 100' and (2) 20' sections of 1" wirsbo hePEX for sale as well that you could use for your attached barn and putting in a space heater. This heater in the garage could be controlled by a thermostat_ and also be the dump zone for any extra heat in the system. Price for the Pex is $250._


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

I also have 30+ cord of 2-Year Seasoned Hardwood in Putnam, CT for sale. Call or Text Dan 860.234.0225 No delivery, pick up only. $180/cord


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

Dan. I have a few firearms but they wouldn't be of interest to you as they are junk cheapos I bought to learn how to fire. As for heave equipment, I am buying a backhoe today, but it won't be for sale. I maybe intererested in some of your wood though. I do all my shopping in putnam.


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

Give me a call when you are in the area and come check out the boiler and wood. A backhoe is exactly what I am looking for as well. What are you getting? I have a mini 2007 Kubota L3400 w/ 186 hours, loader, backhoe, 4wd, 35hp, 3pt hitch....like new for sale. $20,000. I am looking for a:

JD 310,410,510 w/ under 2500 hours and 2006 or newer. Cat as well.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

Dan, I am not looking for a tractor that large, and am just buying a Massey Ferguson GC2310


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

If it is around $20k, check mine out on Craigslist...great deal on a bigger kubota!


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## arbutus (Aug 30, 2013)

I'll recommend a used modern EPA approved wood stove to replace your current stove for a year or two while you get the funds built up.  That will cut down on wood use and should improve heat output (size the stove appropriately), and will be cost effective if you shop for a good price on a used stove, you can likely sell it for close to what you paid when you move the wood burning outside.


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 30, 2013)

The only problem with buying used is that you always run the risks of issues. Why is the other person getting rid of it? These stove also have the potential to build pressure. You don't want to buy a pre-owned unit for this reason alone. You need to make sure that you have a professional install the unit because if installed improperly, it could be a dangerous situation. When shopping around to get a good plumber to install the unit, I found the cost to be right around $1000 to install it next to my oil furnace, and $1500 to install in my uninsulated garage 100' away from my oil furnace.


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## arbutus (Aug 30, 2013)

Hmmm.  I read that Legends has been using an old coal/wood "stove" not boiler, and advised that he save for a good complete boiler setup before abandoning the stove.  My apologies if I was mistaken.  Your concerns regarding used are warranted though.  Check operation if possible, inspect for cracks and warping well, look for signs of overfiring, as well as for signs of general care.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

The coal stove I have been heating with (using wood) is in my dining room of my 1200 sq home..  I would need to replace it with an efficient wood stove, but I am not sure what you mean about hiring a plumber?

I would be willing to buy a new one, for the right price, and have a new insulated chimney stack installed while I save for the proper exterior boiler, and build up my wood reserves. I think. Still hoping for advice from you all!


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Aug 30, 2013)

I would suggest putting a new wood stove and liner/chimney. run that this winter. less wood burned = less mess and see if your happy. pine? dry hardwood-yes

if you want a owb then you got to save your pennies because the cost is greater. good underground pipe will be 10-16 dollars a foot.

lots of great ideas on this site. I'm sure if you search around the site you will find a reasonable solution to your desire to have the mess outside.

What ever your wood species is ; it must be dry.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks for the good info!  I am not worried about underground pipe as it would be less than 10 feet from my basement foundation, on an existing cement slab. Just trying to find out the most cost effective way to make it happen should I decide not to replace the inside wood stove and keep searching for a boiler.


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

I hope ur referring to the barn being ten feet away and you are not considering putting an OWB only ten feet from house. And still want to use a quality insulated tubing.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 30, 2013)

No, the home and barn are attached to eachother, and both would be 10 feet away from the house. Why would this be an issue? Local people told me it's safe?


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

The home is attached to the barn which is ten feet away from house?  Your house?  Neighbors house?


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## Coal Reaper (Aug 30, 2013)

Well start by checking with your homeowners insurance. I think i remember most requiring OWBs to be 50' from structures and one called for 500'. These things smoke, especially a $5k unit. Is it acceptable for smoke to infiltrate your home?  What about fly ash that close, let alone embers. I have seen sparks shooting from the short stacks of OWBs before. If its a space constraint i would at least make sure my chimney cleared the roof of house. 
Another consideration is a closed system vs.an open one. Most if not all OWB are open system. Search it.


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## leon (Aug 30, 2013)

LegendsCreekFarm said:


> No, the home and barn are attached to each other, and both would
> be 10 feet away from the house.
> 
> Why would this be an issue?
> ...


 

Which local people? The dealer?, Your insurer?,  NOT SAFE especially from a clearance standpoint
especially when you have shingles and no spark arrestor. be very aware that embers will travel a long
distance.


Your better off spending you money on a coal/wood boiler and five hundred gallons of storage
for less money as a Batch burner will be much less problematic and troublesome as it will burn hotter and cleaner.


You have come to the right forum for the experience and advice, and none of us have our hands on your wallet.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 31, 2013)

My insurer and recent appraiser said they both have theirs right up against the house, and there is nothing stopping me from putting it where I want. I am so confused about all the different things I am hearing!


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## Dan Rondeau (Aug 31, 2013)

you need to follow the guideline in the manual. when the inspector comes to sign off on the installation,  he will ask to see the manual and you can show that you have safe clearances on all sides.


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## leon (Aug 31, 2013)

LegendsCreekFarm said:


> My insurer and recent appraiser said they both have theirs right up
> against the house, and there is nothing stopping me from putting
> it where I want.
> 
> I am so confused about all the different things I am hearing!


 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
======================================================

Your right, there is nothing stopping you from installing your heating source
next to your home, EXCEPT A DENIAL OF INSURANCE CLAIM FROM A FIRE DUE TO A FAULTY INSTALLATION.



YOUR local fire code enforcement officer is your friend and not your
enemy by the way.

Local codes must be followed and as he or she has had the required training in
post fire investigation, fire prevention, and casualty loss control and abatement
he or she will approve the installation after a building permit is applied for with the required drawings.

For your own sake and the possibility that you will not be covered in the event of
a fire by your insurer(NOT YOUR AGENT).

You need to call the national fire underwriters BECAUSE THEY ARE THE
BE ALL AND END ALL IN FIRE AND CASUALTY LOSS PREVENTION
and the Insurance company (NOT YOUR INSURANCE AGENT) will follow thier guidlelines/recommendations.

You can and will get bad advice from your insurance agent-been there done that.


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## LegendsCreekFarm (Aug 31, 2013)

I understand guys.. I talked to my town, and to the fire department. There is no code here on these. I live in a town where they don't bother you. 

Of course I don't want to burn my home down, and I would follow the manual regardless, but it just happens that I have the perfect spot for it on an existing slab and could set it 10 - 15 feet from the house. I would probably talk to the product manufacturer before I did anything. 

My insurance company has no regulation on them.


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## leon (Aug 31, 2013)

LegendsCreekFarm said:


> I understand guys.. I talked to my town, and to the fire department.
> There is no code here on these. I live in a town where they don't bother you.
> 
> Of course I don't want to burn my home down, and I would follow the manual regardless, but it just happens that I have the perfect spot for it on an existing slab and could set it 10 - 15 feet from the house. I would probably talk to the product manufacturer before I did anything.
> ...


 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The product manufacturer is not going to say no to you by the way so....................


I would love to hear who your national fire insurance carrier is simply because you have both
set back issues and clearance issues for a non fossil fuel combustion unit/heat source.


The amount of wood you will be burning will surprise you and the amount of time it spends idling and smoking will also surprize you as well. And the amount of smoke at idle will generate lot of interest from a lot of folks especially if there is no wind as smoke will stay close to the ground too.


You should seriously look at the smallest Garn wood boiler to do this for you or a Harmon wood
and coal boiler and build an insulated shed over either one.


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## Frozen Canuck (Aug 31, 2013)

Have to agree with the cautious ask lots of questions approach: re placement. When we installed ours, it nor the wood could be any closer than 50' from any insured structure. They could have cared less about any uninsured structures on the farm but those that the policy covered needed that minimum 50' clearance. From the combustion appliance & the fuel source.

Thinking back our agent really had no clue how to classify these appliances but was smart enough to ask the code & fire officers that did.

Knowing sure beats hoping you are covered.


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## Chris Hoskin (Sep 4, 2013)

1200' in CT means that any wood gasification boiler that I am aware of will be grossly over-sized almost all the time.  This would be especially true of an outdoor boiler as these tend to have very large fireboxes and large outputs, especially the less expensive, older style units.  Totally inappropriate for a smaller home like yours.  In order to effectively use a wood boiler with your relatively small heating load you will need at least 400 gallons of thermal storage.  You are looking at a $10 - $15,000 project depending on the boiler and thermal storage you choose.  If this is not in your budget, I think a new woodstove, professionally installed, would be a great way to heat your home and could almost certainly be done within a $5000.00 budget.  You will burn a lot less wood too, so the mess in the house will also be a lot less.


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## shawn6596 (Sep 7, 2013)

to Coal reaper  
Your statement about wood not drying in the round is not true for all wood.  I am right now cutting up cherry logs that have been piled up for 3 years and they are dry as a bone.  The sapwood  is punky but comes off when splitting. the heart wood is solid and dry. I just burned some in a camp fire and it took off like match lite charcoal.


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 7, 2013)

shawn6596 said:


> to Coal reaper
> Your statement about wood not drying in the round is not true for all wood.  I am right now cutting up cherry logs that have been piled up for 3 years and they are dry as a bone.  The sapwood  is punky but comes off when splitting. the heart wood is solid and dry. I just burned some in a camp fire and it took off like match lite charcoal.


Ok yes they may dry. But that same medium btu cherry wood had it been split and stacked would have been ready to burn in less than nine months with no lost sap wood.


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## Fred61 (Sep 8, 2013)

I am able to burn wood in a campfire that will not burn in my gasser! Use a moisture meter to gauge the water content. And if you are using higher moisture wood in your unit, how many times do you need to open the door and bust up the bridging.


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## Coal Reaper (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah was visiting mothers house yesterday and neighbor was finishing quartering some oak rounds that he will burn in fireplace this year to keep the natural gas cost down. Was using wedges and sledge so i went over with the x27 and finished things up for him. "Why did you split it so small? You ruined my wood!  It will burn too fast now. ". See yah later pal.


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## heaterman (Sep 9, 2013)

Don't want to rain on your parade but the term "Good Outdoor Wood Gasification Boiler" contains words that are mutually exclusive. Particularly the word "good" in front of the whole phrase. 

Econoburn has n outdoor unit that will actually function as a gasification boiler should, but the words good and outdoor used together do not go together well. Too much loss of efficiency.

I was in Austria at a trade show last February and there were all kinds of wood and pellet boilers displayed. Central Boiler had an outdoor unit there and it drew quite a crowd. Mainly engineers from the Euro companies staring at it and trying to figure out why a person would put a boiler outside in the first place. That whole concept made no sense to them and there was a lot of head scratching and chin rubbing going on amongst the group.


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