# Heatilator CAB50 Problems with combustion



## kps513 (Dec 5, 2011)

I have recently installed this Heatilator CAB50 in my basement.  The pictures show the back of the stove and the outside pipe.  The other pictures show what the burn pot fills with in 12-18 hours.  When the stove was first installed I had no troubles and the stove would relight without a problem and the burn pot would be ok for days at a time.

Right now I have burned about 35 bags so far since buying this stove.  Since getting the incomplete burn I have to make sure to dump the burn pot every twelve hours as it is half full or more.   Last week I noticed that the exhaust combustion blower was not turning real fast.  There is a white mark on the outside of the plastic edge on the fan and it was visable spinning slower then it should be.     I then attached the leaf vac and sucked out the pipe and it blew out quite a bit of ash.  I think it was more then it should of been for just burning 35 bags.

I then restarted the stove and the exhaust blower was spinning faster now since I couldnt see the white mark any longer.  The fire looked better then it has and was able to run for nearly 24 hours before the holes were plugged up on the burn pot.  Now two days later I am back to having a full pot after 12 hours of running.

Heatilator support was not helpful as they wanted me to contact a dealer.  I cant get the local dealer to call me back.

To me it seems like there is a problem with the exhuast blower not running at peak RPM.  I do not think this stoves control board varies the speed of this fan.  Could it be one or the other or a combination of the both?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## heat seeker (Dec 5, 2011)

I think you need to remove the combustion blower and clean it and the pipes from stem to stern. The leaf blower trick is for after you have done the cleaning, not instead of a cleaning. The improvement, however temporary, shows that you are on the right track. Your exhaust system needs a thorough cleaning, and now.


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## smoke show (Dec 5, 2011)

What kind of pellets are you burning???


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## kps513 (Dec 5, 2011)

I will remove it tonight and give it a complete cleaning.  It really stinks to have to go through this with such a few bags used in a brand new unit


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 5, 2011)

While you are at it is that pipe that is through the wall going down bubble?

If it is you are not helping your combustion air flow at all.

Then after you clean out your plumbing and can describe your flame, color, activity, etc... we can discuss things like damper setting.


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## kps513 (Dec 5, 2011)

I have burned 4 different brands with the same results.  All have been premium hardwood with less then 1% ash.  My Primary one used is "1st Choice Premium" from Great Lakes Renewable Energy.  I have also adjusted the feed rate from the factory middle position all the way down to the smallest opening but the incomplete burns still happen


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## DexterDay (Dec 5, 2011)

smoke show said:
			
		

> What kind of pellets are you burning???



Yep. What pellets and also check your door gasket for leaks. Do the dollar bill test. Open the door, place dollar bill in, close door and see if you can pull it out. Do this in several spots along all 4 sides of door. 

If the gasket is leaky, it will rob the burn pot of air. That stove is essentially a Quad. That burn pot should be gettin plenty of air. I had a bad gasket at the end of last season and limped through. Got some "caking" in the pot. But not that much.

Have you tried a different pellet? And as heat seeker said above, do a full cleaning and then use the leafblower. 

The color of the ash looks good. Just need to find why your not getting the airflow needed. Are you getting the lottle holes at the bottom of the pot? If its the same as the Quads, there should ne 4 little ones on the front and 4 littles holes on the back (very bottom of pot, above clean-out plate).


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## DexterDay (Dec 5, 2011)

Nevermind the pellet thing. I type to much. 

No damper on these models Smokey. Just 3 heat settings. High, Med, and Low and an adjustable feed plate inside hopper.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 5, 2011)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> Nevermind the pellet thing. I type to much.
> 
> No damper on these models Smokey. Just 3 heat settings. High, Med, and Low and an adjustable feed plate inside hopper.



OK Dexter, in that case the OP should understand that once the build up starts it will get worse as time passes.  

So if the stove is feeding too many pellets to start with making changes while having the condition without a full stem to stern clean out is not likely to get them anywhere.

If that outside "horizontal" run is doing down hill the OP has severely restricted his exhaust, it MUST ALWAYS BE RISING when it leaves the stove.  Horizontal runs are supposed to have a minimum of 1/4 inch per foot of rise.


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 6, 2011)

what temp do you have the thermostat set at and are you running on high med or low?


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

Tonight I did another full cleaning and again quite a bit of ash came out the vent pipe after 5 days.  The outside pipe did have a very slight downward pitch which I corrected tonight.

I keep the thermostat at about 70-72 but do find that most of the time if it shuts down it will not ignite again due to to much ash in the firebox.

I also did the dollar bill test as suggested and found the only part of the door it sticks well is between the hinges on the left side of the door.  The side of the door near the latch the dollar pulls out very easily.   I have noticed that side of the glass also gets a black smoke streak.    Do you all feel the gasket it not correct with the dollar pulling out so easily?  Even though the stove is new?

thanks again to all for the advise.  I will take new pictures in the morning after 12 hours running of both the glass and firebox and see what the opinion is.


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

Forgot to answer one of the questions.   I leave the stove in Med.


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## DexterDay (Dec 6, 2011)

A new stove does not ensure tight gaskets. Is there an adjustment on the handle. I just looked and rubbed on one at a Forum members shop a few weeks ago. But didnt notice the door latching mechanism,  as it was burning and didnt want to open the door, while it was doing so.

If you can tighten the door latch, try that. A leak is a big culprit for bad burn. That caking looked similar to mine (again, just not that bad, that soon) when my door gasket was bad.

Mine was bad, door adjustment couldnt help. Adjust if possible.


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

Pyro there is no adjustment to the door.  The door latch is a cam and by tightening the nut inside does tighten up the action of the handle but doesnt have any effect on the gasket.  Should the gasket  hold the dollar real tight ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 6, 2011)

You might want to see if that door has adjustment capability.  The pieces of paper should come out but they also need to present resistance.  It is also possible that your latch assembly is a bit loose.

Anything that interferes with the air going through the burn pot and the pellet pile is a problem, anything that reduces the size of the air paths in the stove from above the burn pot through and including the termination cap on your venting will interfere with the air flow.

If too much ash sticks to the impeller blades they will not create the airflow that they did when clean and sharp edged.

If any of the holes in the burn pot are no longer the same size as when new it interferes with the air flow.

Bad gaskets or doors out of adjustment present another air flow issue this time it is because the air doesn't go through the burn pot.

If the burn pot isn't seated correctly air will go around the burn pot instead of through it.

Out of specification venting or venting that is not properly installed will present too much resistance to the combustion blower slowing the airflow down.

Additional things that need to be considered is in the case of lower level installations (basement for example) the chimney effect is larger and that means less air flow through the stove via the air intake (this is something that can be corrected via an OAK installation).

Any air handling device inside the house may be able to reduce the available air flow through the stove.

You should adjust your feed plate when the stove is clean for a proper flame.

Yes I know that is a long list, but even low amounts of airflow changes make huge differences in burning pellets.


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## DexterDay (Dec 6, 2011)

Should hold it fairly tight. If the nut tightens it, then that is an adjustment?  Right. Otherwise it wouldnt tighten. Can you post a pic of the door latching mechanism?

The are owners and dealers that can better tell you how to address the latch. If it pulls very easily and cant be adjusted anymore, than that is causing a leak. 

Do you have any incense or candles around. (Incense is best) Take the incense and run it around the outer edge of the door. Pay attention to where the air was on the stove is, so you dont mistake it for a leak. If smoke is pulled into that area. Then the gasket is leaking and robbing the pot and pellets of air.


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## DexterDay (Dec 6, 2011)

Also, 1 other note. Is there a "Stove adapter" on the back of the unit connecting the stove to the flue? And with the 3 ft of horizontal, 2 - 90* bends, and the 1.5' (looks like it) of vert, gives you almost 14' EVL. Thats on the border of a bad burn there. Especially with the 90*'s so close??? 

Thats one more thing to look at. Also installing a clean-out T may aid in the cleaning process a little. May or may not?


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

The pipe going through the wall is at least two feet.   Exterior walls are 6 inches.   Do you think if I change the pipe going through the wall to a single 12 inch then go up 4-5 feet then direct out 12 inches will be a help?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 6, 2011)

kps513 said:
			
		

> The pipe going through the wall is at least two feet.   Exterior walls are 6 inches.   Do you think if I change the pipe going through the wall to a single 12 inch then go up 4-5 feet then direct out 12 inches will be a help?



You want the shortest possible horizontal run consistent with the distance the end of the termination cap must be from the house.

I have other issues with the venting but it has to do with what happens on loss of power.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 6, 2011)

It would be helpful if you looked up EVL (equivalent vent length) and found out what the stove's limit is for the vent size you have.

Usually (but not always) 3" venting can only be used if the EVL is 15 or less above that and the venting needs to be 4" starting at the stove adapter.


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 6, 2011)

kps513 said:
			
		

> Forgot to answer one of the questions.   I leave the stove in Med.


try running it on high


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

After running last night for 11 hours at medium the burn pot is at least 1/4 full (can not see any holes in the pot any longer) This is the picture of the glass door on the latch side.  Not sure if this is leakage or not.


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## humpin iron (Dec 6, 2011)

quality of pellets-- the 2 90's so close together ain't helping.  Should have gone straight out, tee, up 48, 90, jet cap.  My shop would have done it in 4" pipe.  Unburned pellets, most of the time there is nothing wrong with the stove.  Cleaning- cleaning- cleaning, which relates to quality of pellets


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## DexterDay (Dec 6, 2011)

I would definitely look more into the gasket. I can run on Low for a week without build-up (if running constantly). There is an air flow problem to the pot, be it the venting, dirty stove (you said its clean though),  or leak (or all 3).

Bad gasket will cause problems.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 6, 2011)

humpin iron said:
			
		

> quality of pellets-- the 2 90's so close together ain't helping.  Should have gone straight out, tee, up 48, 90, jet cap.  My shop would have done it in 4" pipe.  Unburned pellets, most of the time there is nothing wrong with the stove.  Cleaning- cleaning- cleaning, which relates to quality of pellets



Let's also add in it is likely any ash traps are loaded up and doing the vent thing ain't even close to getting those completely emptied even when using a leaf blower.  Then we have the area above the burn pot going on the way out to the exhaust system. 

Since we are chasing an obvious air flow issue we might as well hit all of the bases, is there anything blocking or in the air intake on the stove?


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 6, 2011)

what  does the flame look on high? is the stove cycling or just on a constant run on med?


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## kps513 (Dec 6, 2011)

If I know that going straight out and up would guarantee the fix I will do it.  I do have some siding around yet to patch that area.

I will take a pic of the flame on high this afternoon.   Running on Med with stat at 72 pretty much keeps the stove running all the time.  Last weekend with it being a little warmer it did turn off but wouldn't restart since there was to much ash in the pot.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Dec 6, 2011)

kps513 said:
			
		

> If I know that going straight out and up would guarantee the fix I will do it.  I do have some siding around yet to patch that area.
> 
> I will take a pic of the flame on high this afternoon.   Running on Med with stat at 72 pretty much keeps the stove running all the time.  Last weekend with it being a little warmer it did turn off but wouldn't restart since there was to much ash in the pot.



While you are playing around take a good look at the screen if any on the termination cap.


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## stoveguy13 (Dec 6, 2011)

you may want to try running on high the stove will get more air and tend to perform better on the high setting your flame should be 6-8 inches out of the pot clinkers form when the ash cools and hardens


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## kinsmanstoves (Dec 6, 2011)

I will say it could be the pellets, the venting, or an air leak.  

Pellets with to much green raw material will make volcano rock like clinkers.  Try another brand, 3 bags at least.  

Check the door gaskets.  The handle can be adjusted by removing/adding a washer.

fix that venting, get the 90's out of there by moving the hole or raising the stove.  Do not mix pipe, use Pellet Vent or Pellet Vent Pro.  No mix and match.  Is there an Appliance adapter on the stove?

Do not mess with the computer.  Leave it alone.

Eric


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## tigerjeb (Jan 23, 2012)

Hello,

Just checking in to see if you CAB 50 problems are resolved.  I have one that I have been cleaning out twice a day during the coldest part of the winter so far.  

Curious to know what pellets you were burning and if you have switched brands.  I have been burning ProPellets and they seem to be doing OK.  When I was testing different brands, I tried NRG pellets, and they were the worst.  Almost all dust.  I scooped half out and had to do a full clean because of all the sawdust.

Our CAB 50 definitely has some small air leaks around the window also.  I know it's just two, but I wonder how many of the other new out of box CAB 50's are having the same problem.  

Is there a sealant patch kit for the rope, or does the rope just need to be completely replaced?  

On another note, I am curious to hear responses on why the stove is priced so differently in different regions.  I know in the mid-Michigan area, the stove sells for $1100 full price but I have seen $1600-$1700 quoted on this forum and in other circular ads.  

As a lurker, I really appreciate this forum.  Great ideas and helpful tips and tricks.


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## kps513 (Jan 25, 2012)

Hello
What I have uncovered is that the heavier ash of the red oak used in First Choice pellets was to heavy and the ash stayed in the burn pot causing the problems.  When I switched to Lumber Jack Premium the large massive ash chunks went away.  I did install the OAK and that didn't make any difference.  I too have tried about 6 different brands of pellets finding some to be so dusty that I didn't want to dump the whole bag at once.

I have taken some alum foil and folded small strips and laid on the gasket when closing the door to create a tighter seal but didn't notice the glass staying any cleaner. I should try that again and see how it effects the flame.  Not sure how to test the window seal itself.

In this area I have not seen the stove priced that low.  Seems to range from 1500 to 1700 within about a 4 hour radius.


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## jeff5347 (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey guys, came upon this post as i have a heatilator ps50.  I dont mean to hijack but had a question as well.  Dexter you say the cab has no damper but im not sure on the ps..  Removing the ash box there is a hole about 2x2 which has a metal plate beside it that i can swing to make the hole smaller.  Thinking this isa damper but changing how big the hole is i can see no difference.
http://mainestoves.com/pdfs/manuals/heatilator/PS50.PDF  On page 7 it shows the combustion air damper.  I see  pretty much no effect when adjusting this...

Also one other question.  I removed my burnpot to clean it as it was getting some really hard build up on it that i couldnt get off.  So i removed it to "chisel" the junk off and that was  from barefoots.  The burnpot has a white fabric like gasket and when removing it the gasket held on the the stove and the pot.  So i adjusted the gasket while putting the burn pot back in.  Will having a  a bad gasket kill or impact the fire in the burnpot.  If so i think thats what mine is doing as it seems i cant get a good falme unless i have the feed pretty much opened all the way.


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## jeff5347 (Jan 26, 2012)

One other question regarding the heatilators if Eric can chime in.  Where is the combustion blower.  My method of cleaning is after arond five bags i shut it down or let it run out, vacuum all the ash from inside the stove, dump the ash box, remove any clinkers in the fire pot and the try to get any hard build up of the inside of the fire pot. Also i take a hand broom and clean all the ash that has accumulated on the inside walls and remove the back plates to get any ash behind as well.  I have removed the blower circular fans (that blows out the hot air) and cleaned them of dust and debris and then behind the back plates there is a hole  that leads to the exhaust.  I set the vacuum to blow and blow out and dust and ash that has accumulated in the exhasut trail as well as removed the term. cap to clean any settled dust.  The one thing i havent cleaned as i dont know where it is is the combustion blower.  I can see the exhaust blower (havent removed that) and the hot air blower but i am not sure if i have or where the fan is that pulls air into the stove for combustion....


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## DexterDay (Jan 26, 2012)

jeff5347 said:
			
		

> One other question regarding the heatilators if Eric can chime in.  Where is the combustion blower.  My method of cleaning is after arond five bags i shut it down or let it run out, vacuum all the ash from inside the stove, dump the ash box, remove any clinkers in the fire pot and the try to get any hard build up of the inside of the fire pot. Also i take a hand broom and clean all the ash that has accumulated on the inside walls and remove the back plates to get any ash behind as well.  I have removed the blower circular fans (that blows out the hot air) and cleaned them of dust and debris and then behind the back plates there is a hole  that leads to the exhaust.  I set the vacuum to blow and blow out and dust and ash that has accumulated in the exhasut trail as well as removed the term. cap to clean any settled dust.  The one thing i havent cleaned as i dont know where it is is the combustion blower.  I can see the exhaust blower (havent removed that) and the hot air blower but i am not sure if i have or where the fan is that pulls air into the stove for combustion....



The exhaust blower is the combustion blower. Its the blower directly connected to your venting. It blows the exhaust out, but "sucks" air into the stove (via burn pot).

Your Burn pot gasket needs replaced if its torn or damaged. That will create an air leak and lead to burn issues.

As to the damper. If its not external (and mentioned in manual), then I dont know if its meant to be played with? If its inside the ash compartment, its not meant to be adjusted while running....... So if its really a damper or not???? I will let Eric answer that. 

Can you take a pic of this area?

Edit: looked at manual... It is a damper. But prob best adjusted when not running? IDK. Kinda wish my Quad had something like that. Even if its that vague. Its something.


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## jeff5347 (Jan 26, 2012)

they do state the damper in the manual on page 7  http://mainestoves.com/pdfs/manuals/heatilator/PS50.PDF  But it seems useless as there is no gasket between the ash drawer and stove.  So air could get sucked in from the ash drawer area as well essentially adding more even if the damper is closed
I will post a pic.  Also like i stated i just blow out the fly ash and such from the exhaust trail but havent removed the blower.  Will the efficiency be reduced as time goes by and im not able to physically get in there and clean it?  

Pics following


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## jeff5347 (Jan 26, 2012)

"damper" is inside below ash drawer


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## Turbo-Quad (Jan 26, 2012)

Id put a cleanout tee in place of the first 90* coming off your exhaust.  I clean my pot out twice a day when burning crappy pellets.  Try some Somersets youll like them better and so will your stove.  That brings my pot cleaning down to once a day in average winter temps but in cold snaps when I have to burn 3+ bags a day its gotta be cleaned twice even with the Somersets. Maybe a little more foil tape will help.....lol jk.  BTW going straight up will help that stove ...alot.  I had mine direct vent out the side and it wouldnt run on low at all, I went straight up and It will run on low like it was meant to.  These stoves are antiquated technology (your stoves innards are the same as mine) so they need a little more coaxing to get them running effeciently then the AE counter part.


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## jeff5347 (Jan 26, 2012)

The exhaust has a T right at the stove, and goes vertical right from there. Goes vertical for about 4 ft then 2 feet outside and then the term.  I will have to do that clean more often and clean the T out more often.  Ive been cleaning about 1/2 days and the T about once a week.  Is there any way to get  to the exhasut blower t oclean all the ash and junk off it?


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## DexterDay (Jan 26, 2012)

jeff5347 said:
			
		

> The exhaust has a T right at the stove, and goes vertical right from there. Goes vertical for about 4 ft then 2 feet outside and then the term.  I will have to do that clean more often and clean the T out more often.  Ive been cleaning about 1/2 days and the T about once a week.  Is there any way to get  to the exhasut blower t oclean all the ash and junk off it?



The venting only needs cleaned every ton or so (give or take / horizontal sections more often). 
As for the combustion blower. A $10 gasket will let you take it off and clean the fins with a small wire brush. Some do this every ton. Some do it at the end of every season. I do it twice a season normally. At the mid-point of the year (around now) and at the Spring cleaning (end of season). 

My stove (Classic Bay) can go a week normally (running 24/7 non stop). Burning a good pellet, I can go about a week or so before cleaning/scraping the pot.  That's running non stop though.

Some brands leave more ash than others. But if there gets to be a cake of ash inside the pot, I would start looking for leaks (door gasket, burn pot gasket, etc). I had a bad door gasket at the end of last season. Had to shut the stove down every evening to remove the thick cake from the backside of the pot. Went around the back half of the pot, from the top of the slope, to the top of the pot.. Looked hard like a clinker. But was very soft and broke easily.

New gasket and now the stove runs like new again. Im on almost 3 weeks without opening the door. (But I also dont use it a whole lot, maybe 2-3 bags a week, at best). 

Cleaning schedules are different for everyone. Some do it more often than others. Do what works for you. Just make sure you remove all motors at least once a year, and the vent every ton.


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## Turbo-Quad (Jan 26, 2012)

[quote author="jeff5347" date="1327617416"]The exhaust has a T right at the stove, and goes vertical right from there. Goes vertical for about 4 ft then 2 feet outside and then the term.  I will have to do that clean more often and clean the T out more often.  Ive been cleaning about 1/2 days and the T about once a week.  Is there any way to get  to the exhasut blower t oclean all the ash and junk off it?[/quote

The coment was to the original post.  There is no clean out tee on his.


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## saladdin (Jan 26, 2012)

tigerjeb said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Just checking in to see if you CAB 50 problems are resolved.  I have one that I have been cleaning out twice a day during the coldest part of the winter so far.
> 
> ...



Great State of Tennessee here. In October, paid 1964 for stove, install, hearth pad and  ton of greenways.


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## jeff5347 (Jan 27, 2012)

DexterDay said:
			
		

> jeff5347 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ill look into a gasket for the combustion fan.I checked for one on the burn pot and 39 dollars!   Idid do the dollar bill test on the door and that is tight.  I can pull the bill but only after putting force into it. Will cleaning the combustion blower make a difference.  Also i noticed with barefoots lot of clinkers and buildup in the pot and not a great flame unless i open the feed just about all the way. Now i have been burning a few bags of Turmans and so much better.  I found the pellets the stove likes.


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## coldinmich (Oct 20, 2013)

I know this


kps513 said:


> I have recently installed this Heatilator CAB50 in my basement.  The pictures show the back of the stove and the outside pipe.  The other pictures show what the burn pot fills with in 12-18 hours.  When the stove was first installed I had no troubles and the stove would relight without a problem and the burn pot would be ok for days at a time.
> 
> Right now I have burned about 35 bags so far since buying this stove.  Since getting the incomplete burn I have to make sure to dump the burn pot every twelve hours as it is half full or more.   Last week I noticed that the exhaust combustion blower was not turning real fast.  There is a white mark on the outside of the plastic edge on the fan and it was visable spinning slower then it should be.     I then attached the leaf vac and sucked out the pipe and it blew out quite a bit of ash.  I think it was more then it should of been for just burning 35 bags.
> 
> ...


 
  I realize your post is a few years old but.  I bought a cab 50 last year and have lots of problems with mine as well.   The manufacturer will not honor the warranty. The dealer just tells me to buy his pellets.   did you ever get any resolution?


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## Gadgetman99 (Dec 7, 2014)

We have had our Cab50 for about 2-3 years now. It started out OK, but seemed to develop problems after the first 3 months or so. Tech support was not much help, and at one point they had us silicone the shipping bolt holes shut (located in the areas where the ash pan is). Of course I could not understand why that would help because there is no gasket on the ash pan drawer and all kinds of air is able to enter this area anyway. The whole system seems a bit odd. At several points I would have to remove a side panel to keep the stove running. This made no sense either, as the back has all kinds of air holes. It appears this system is so delicately balanced that just a small change in air flow will just kill it. Really poor design. I have a 16 year old Reliant stove in our sunroom that just runs and runs and runs with no issues and minimal cleaning.  On the cab50 I noticed black streaks along the glass edges and it seemed like air was getting sucked in (leaking). The door gasket was all great, but I tried running a bead of sealant along the edge of the glass on the outside and now this thing runs MUCH better. So it looks like the glass seal was bad from day 1. Now we have no black streaks, just ash that coats the inside of the glass that wipes off with a soft cloth or brush. I just can't understand why they designed the ash drawer area and burn put like they did. The small damper door under the ash pan has no effect and I thought you open it if the outside air kit is installed, but the manual is a bit vague and seems to conflict with when tech support told us (to keep it closed). The stove appears very well built but there are serious design flaws for sure.


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