# englander 25-pdvc



## xtreme77mopar (Dec 15, 2008)

Just wondering if anyone has had an issue with there exhaust blower making a loud whinning noise, i have cleaned this stove from top to bottom and still making the noise. I know its not the bottom auger, I pulled of the side cover and the motor is extremely hot. Hope you guys can help! 
Ed


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## rmac (Dec 15, 2008)

I just started having the same issue last week.  It comes and goes, sometimes lasts for a few minutes, sometimes for a few hours. I'm just about through my first ton on this stove (25PDV). I will try an access the fan to see if it needs cleaning. Any other thoughts/suggesstions out there?


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## drizler (Dec 15, 2008)

Do yourself a favor and go buy a cheap auto stethescope at Advance or Auto Zone.    I have been working on my own junk longer than I care to remember and never bothered to get one till recently.    Just got one a couple months ago after using sockets, extensions and glasses forever and all I can say is WOW.    You  can not only hear exactly where its loudest but what the sound really is going on and EXACTLY where its loudest.     Get one its only 10 bucks or so.  You will find yourself down the road.    It reaches way in there into places where you can't get with those improvised things.


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## xtreme77mopar (Dec 16, 2008)

Its def. the motor...someting internal. guess I'll be contacting englander and buying a new motor for a stove thats only a few months old....I'll see what they say maybe they can help me out!


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## doghouse (Dec 16, 2008)

$150.26, Incliding freight.  Thats how much mine cost.  :ahhh:    I wonder if that hearthtools.com just above the forum posts has it any cheeper?


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## drizler (Dec 16, 2008)

Ah, before you shell out the megabux on it why not look into the warranty?      Second thought is that most of these motors, blowers and switches all come off the shelf as a standard item.   They are out there with a standard part number and that is where Englander got it from themselves just like all the others.   If you can't get any warranty satisfaction start looking and asking.    There are guys here and on the other boards at the bottom of my post who know those numbers.   Once you get the cross reference you can get one from Grainger or Mcmaster Car.     Try to get the number off your motor if you can see it and search it on the net.   There are a couple other online stores and ebay to consider as well.   Get that PN and its easy after that.    For that matter it is a good idea to find out what the other motor numbers are and file them in case something else goes.     I know a few guys who have those stoves, some 8 or 9 years old and maybe one motor failure in all that time.   Failure in your amount of time is pretty unusual.    FWIW it's most often the auger feed gear motors that go usually from hard debris jamming the auger.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 17, 2008)

dont buy the motor if the stove is just a few months old the motor is covered under the factory warranty, contact my shop at the 800-245-6489 number , please have your stove's model and serial number handy when you do , we will require that to fill out the warranty request. or click this link  http://www.englanderstoves.com/warranty/warranty-claim.html   and submit it online no arguement on the warranty if the stove is less than a year old from purchase i will ship a no cost replacement. if you have not filled out your warranty card and registered the stove , no biggie , we will register it when you call and then ship the part anyway. 

i have no issue with selling parts when they are needed but i do not intend to sell a part when it is still under warranty


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## Tailrace (Dec 17, 2008)

Mike comes through again! Now that's what I call customer service  ;-)


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## xtreme77mopar (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks for all the help here, Mike I will be calling later this week...I work long hours and will have to free up some time to make the call....Thanks a million


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 18, 2008)

xtreme77mopar said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the help here, Mike I will be calling later this week...I work long hours and will have to free up some time to make the call....Thanks a million



 hey if you are tied up during the workday and have the issue pinpointed (your part # is pu-076002b)and know what part you need, do an online warranty claim , we can fill your request without you having to contact us. if you have nbot registered your stove , take a sec and register it online at the website then send the claim, no need to work around our schedule that way. PM me if you have questions or any issues doing this online. happy to help 

BTW if saturday is an off day for you and you would prefer to talk to one of my techs , i have techs in the office from 10-1 eastern time.


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## drogers5 (Dec 18, 2008)

I had the same problem for years.  Tonight it was making lots of noise, I look the vacuum to the motor  and the noise went away.  It seems to make noise with lots of heat.  Hope this helps.


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## pelletizer (Dec 25, 2008)

I thought mine was starting to do this a few weeks ago it was very faint but last night it got louder and is now constant.
Unfortunately it was when we had company over and friends were checking out the stove :grrr: 
Looks like I will be using Mikes link as the stove is 6 months old.
Must be a bad motor I have only burned 39 bags of pellets in the stove. 
Still happy with the stove and have no regrets buying an Englander 25-PDVC


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## pelletizer (Dec 25, 2008)

I checked my exaust motor and it is a fasco motor and does not look like this pic of part # PU-076002B 

Maybe this pic is what Englander used to use for exaust motors?

Even my room blower is a fasco and does not look like the pic on Englanders web site?


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## slvrblkk (Dec 25, 2008)

pelletizer said:
			
		

> I checked my exaust motor and it is a fasco motor and does not look like this pic of part # PU-076002B
> 
> Maybe this pic is what Englander used to use for exaust motors?
> 
> Even my room blower is a fasco and does not look like the pic on Englanders web site?



I believe those are the one they currently use. I think they are called "C" frame motors.


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## pelletizer (Dec 26, 2008)

Here is a pic of what the Fasco Motor looks like on my 25-PDVC  , Just the motor not the blower housing,


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## slvrblkk (Dec 26, 2008)

That's what mine looks like too. I believe these  http://www.cshincorporated.com/product_info.php/products_id/5573  can be used as replacements also.... not 100% sure of that, though.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 26, 2008)

pelletizer said:
			
		

> I checked my exaust motor and it is a fasco motor and does not look like this pic of part # PU-076002B
> 
> Maybe this pic is what Englander used to use for exaust motors?
> 
> Even my room blower is a fasco and does not look like the pic on Englanders web site?



 the picture on our site is of an older type we used to use, its been replaced since by a motor similar to the one in the later post, we just havent updated the picture


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## pelletizer (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks Mike, I pulled off the back panel and side plate and vacuumed the motor and looked for oil ports but it was not that dusty and no oil ports she's whining a bit tonight but heating the house great. My family was over last night and was pretty impressed with the stove and how it heats the house and how little oil I have burned.

Hope you and all on the site had a good Christmas, HO HO HO.


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## Tom Arsenault (Dec 28, 2008)

My exhaust blower just went on my Englander 25-PDVC. The stove is 2 years old and of cousre it's only a 1 year warrenty. Stupid me! I sent it to a electric motor repair shop and paid $70 to get the bearing replace. After I install it, 2 Days later the same thing. Somebody please don't tell me it's a defective motor. I got the replacement gasket from the manual and it's the wrong gasket. Auuuggghhh!


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## pelletizer (Dec 28, 2008)

I would take it back to the electric motor repair shop and put the pressure on for a refund it may work you never know, then purchase a direct replacement from Englander stove. 

I don't think a 2 year old motor let alone mine with 3 months of use should crap out but hey "its made in,,, you guessed it" China!


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## drizler (Dec 29, 2008)

[quote author="toma1955" date="1230514242"]My exhaust blower just went on my Englander 25-PDVC. The stove is 2 years old and of cousre it's only a 1 year warrenty. Stupid me! I sent it to a electric motor repair shop and paid $70 to get the bearing replace. After I install it, 2 Days later the same thing. Somebody please don't tell me it's a defective motor. I got the replacement gasket from the manual and it's the wrong gasket. Auuuggghhh![/quote


Take it back to the shop and tell them to fix it right.  Be nice to them and see what they say and offer to do before you get ugly about it.    It may cost you a few bucks more but since you are into them for that much you might as well continue the adventure.    Possibly they could cut you a decent deal on a new one if necessary.     At the least you should get more than a few days use from a repaired motor if they inspected it at all which they should have.    When its all over and if you need a new one make sure to keep the old one for parts.


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## petejung (Dec 29, 2008)

My first blower motor went bad last year after only 4 months of burning.  Got a new one under warranty, and it's been used only 3 months and it, too, is starting to whine quite loudly, but intermittently.  I'm pretty disappointed that this motor has only lasted a few months, as they are not cheap to replace.

Did anyone ever come up with a cross-reference part # for this motor?


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## pelletizer (Dec 29, 2008)

My new one is on the way "thanks Englander" fast service!!


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## petejung (Dec 30, 2008)

Same here.  The guy at Englander was real nice, but said this wasn't a "common problem".  Don't know if I believe him on that part of the issue or not, but Englander stoves cust service was top notch as usual.  You've got a fine crew there, Mike.  Give them all a raise!


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 30, 2008)

ElPedro said:
			
		

> Same here.  The guy at Englander was real nice, but said this wasn't a "common problem".  Don't know if I believe him on that part of the issue or not, but Englander stoves cust service was top notch as usual.  You've got a fine crew there, Mike.  Give them all a raise!



ok hold up , you had 2 motors??! both gave you trouble? 

actually , exhaust blowers have been really solid especially since we went to the shaded pole motor we are using today. so i will have to agree that its not a common thing (honest, im not spouting party line here , that motor has been really solid for us)  which is why i asked my question above. is there anything out of the ordinary with your hookup?


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## pelletizer (Dec 30, 2008)

Mine is just the exhaust motor it started whining slightlley about 3 maybe 4 weeks ago and now is more pronounced and almost constant, The room motor is fine, I even did a pet hair check :coolsmile: 
I determined it was the exhaust motor as it I hear it while on start up and shut down when that motor is the only one running.
I clean my stove just about every day and cleaned the tee and ran a vac hose into the house from the tee this weekend not much to clean as I have not burned a ton yet I was surprised how clean the whole vent pipe was actually,
The motor sound, sounds like its at high rpm and a slight whine not rough,

My vent pipe set up is as follows, out of the stove to 45* strait throught the wall thimble, TEE then up 6 ft to a 90* and vent cap.


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## drizler (Dec 31, 2008)

Check on the iburncorn.com and iburnpellets.com websites.   a couple of those guys have dug into those machines a long ways and may have your answer or know where to look.   Check the make specific forums at the bottom and get in the Englander one and ask.   They may have the corn model but know what you need anyways.   Its worth a try.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 1, 2009)

My blow motor on my Englander 25PI went bad within a year.  I am, also on my fourth auger motor.  Mike helped while under warranty.  Englander motors do not seem up to snuff.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/

Called them as recent as today, no satisfaction but it wasnt Mike who i talked to.  I believe it was his boss Chris Terrell.  

I would estimate that in 5 years this stove required ~$600 worth of replacement parts.


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## Garry P (Jan 1, 2009)

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> My blow motor on my Englander 25PI went bad within a year.  I am, also on my fourth auger motor.  Mike helped while under warranty.  Englander motors do not seem up to snuff.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/
> 
> Called them as recent as today, no satisfaction but it wasnt Mike who i talked to.  I believe it was his boss Chris Terrell.
> 
> I would estimate that in 5 years this stove required ~$600 worth of replacement parts.



Wow, you have been a member for all of 12 hours, and have made 5 postings complaining about the same thing. If your intent is to trash Englander I think you will find yourself in the minority hear. At least from all of the positive feedback I read, not to mention the fact that Mike from Englander is on this site on his own time trying to help people out with their problems. 

I would go so far as to bet that if you sent him a PM or even an e-mail at the address in his signature he would try to help you out. At this point though it comes across as you are looking for a fight, not an answer.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 1, 2009)

GarryP said:
			
		

> Wow, you have been a member for all of 12 hours, and have made 5 postings complaining about the same thing.



Can you find the 5 posts complaining about the same thing?  How about the 1st original post.  Two replies (one to you), one post to offer a solution to a similar issue and one post to share the same problem with a motor. 



			
				GarryP said:
			
		

> If your intent is to trash Englander



Could you please find where what i said was bashing or trashing?



			
				GarryP said:
			
		

> Mike from Englander is on this site on his own time trying to help people out with their problems.



As i mentioned in one of my posts Mike helped me out under warranty.  I have no beef with Mike. I talked to a person at Englander today who led me to believe they are Mike's boss and they had no desire to find a solution to abnormally high motor failures. 



			
				GarryP said:
			
		

> At this point though it comes across as you are looking for a fight, not an answer.



Everything i posted is fact and no attacks on them.  _*I called them looking for an answer.  I posted here looking for answer*_. 

I am seeking a solution and sharing with other Englander owners my findings. 

You havent offered a suggestion as to what the root cause of the failure issue might be and unless you have a desire to help i dont understand your interest in my situation. 


Happy New Year


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## theking (Jan 1, 2009)

I agree with NEStoveOwner on this one. A forum's purpose is to find answers and nothing in his posts indicate he is "trashing" anyone. This appears to be a case of the facts leading to a conclusion on GarryP's part, and one he doesn't like.

If I had the number of failures NEStoveOwner listed for a casual use piece of equipment that I purchased I probably would be bashing the company.

I can't offer any assistance on the topic and as such will not provide any more comments, and hopefully others can do the same.

Happy New Years Day everyone, keep warm. It's finally in the double digit temperatures here


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks King.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 3, 2009)

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> My blow motor on my Englander 25PI went bad within a year.  I am, also on my fourth auger motor.  Mike helped while under warranty.  Englander motors do not seem up to snuff.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/
> 
> Called them as recent as today, no satisfaction but it wasnt Mike who i talked to.  I believe it was his boss Chris Terrell.
> 
> I would estimate that in 5 years this stove required ~$600 worth of replacement parts.



for someone who speaks of wanting to find a solution to you dilemma you sure do get around , placing a negative post in every thread concerning my product linking back to your authored thread is not seeking a solution , to put it in proper terms its product bashing. during this time you have offered to have one of us contact you by e mail yet you have not attempted to PM me or e mail me at my work or home e mail addresses which i provide on my letterhead (see below) i do not make it difficult to get in touch with me and if you look around this and other forums i participate in you will find that most folks end up with their issues solved in a timely manner, but i think you will also find that these people arent  popping up on every thread they can find making negative posts. 

i noted that you have gone through several auger motors , i also noted that you have "annually" scraped the carbon buildup from the auger tube, somthing which should be done much more frequently that that. pellet stoves do require maintenance , this would be beyond waving a vacuum at it every so often. as for the motors we use, the ones you have had problems with are identical to the literally tens of thousands out there which have years of service on them in the identical feed systems that your stove was equipped with. if this was a chronic problem do you honestly think we would be still using this system? we'd go broke replacing motors.

bottom line , ask me and i'll look into it with you, continue to flame my product and i may be a bit less enthused about being helpful.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your reply.

My link is to only share the same information as the original post without having to retype.  If enough people share and exhibit similar failures and or fixes it might lead to a solution.  Thats one of the benefits of these forums.  Is that bashing?  Linking was to save retyping and not to clog or hijack the thread.  

Can I ask you to point out where I was negative about your company or product?  If anything I was very careful not to state anything but fact and where I shared an opinion, I said it was my opinion.  The only dig I took at Englander was in reference to their quality statement.  Can I ask you to point out where I flamed your product?  I looked back through my threads and didn’t see any negative adjectives.

I recently contacted Englander three times for a deeper investigation and to also ask if I could have the motor rewound or sent back for investigation.  Had I known coming here and posting to you was the proper channel of communication I would have done that first.  The Englander web site doesn’t say to do so.

I started by calling your company three times over the last three weeks.  The final call was with Chris Terrell (spelling?).  He said there was nothing he could do for me and he had no interest in discussing how or why this was happening.  I asked him if there was someone else I could talk to he said no.  I don’t remember his exact words but they were something like, “nope I’m the guy that makes those decisions”.  I’ve talked and emailed with you before during one of my previous failures, you were great to deal with.  I didn’t talk to you this time and was told during my two initial calls I should talk to Chris.  If Chris isn’t the guy than please advise your tech support not to refer people to him.  If Chris isn’t the guy please share with him he shouldnt lead the customers to believe he is the guy.


I have seen how you help people here and its admirable. 

I thought that my first approach should have been through Englander via phone and would have never thought that the proper first step to resolving a matter with a company would be through and internet forum.  Please understand that perspective.

Some comments/questions on your reply:

I need to scrape the carbon more frequently than once per year even though I have only burned 3 tons in 5 seasons?  

Is it common for me and other owners to have a blower motor fail after such a short period?

I know you are an intelligent and helpful guy,  I have to believe that you think something is at the root cause of these auger motor failures.  Chris wasn’t willing to pursue it further.  That IMPLIED to me he doesn’t think there is a solution to be found.  Another failed motor, customer buys a replacement.  Business as usual in Chris’mind?  I don’t know.

Why do you suggest I only wave the vacuum?  Did I imply anywhere my cleaning habits are anything less than adequate?

I am not asking this question because I expect an answer but I have to wonder.  What is the ratio of stoves sold vs auger (or blower) motors purchased from Merkle Korff by Englander?  I wont even try to speculate as to what that number might be but hopefully your QA team knows the percentage.

In an effort to save your company warranty claims and other owners the cost of a replacement motor, did you notice I advised on the breakdown of the mechanical crimp?  Giving Englander field feedback doesn’t seem consistent with a basher.  I offered a solution that could fix some failures.  Chris Terrell offered me no solutions.

You are right about Englander going broke using these motors.  I certainly am.

It doesn’t seem in the least bit strange, out of the norm or extraordinary that I have had one blower and 4 auger motors go bad?  Chris Terrell’s answer was buy another auger motor.  That’s how I ended up on this forum.

If you’d like to help me find a solution and possibly lead to helping others in the future, id be happy to work with you.  Thats not the offical position of Chris Terrell. Please understand I started with what I believed was the proper channel and I wasn’t satisfied with Englanders position (via Chris Terrell).  I have come on here stating facts and am motivated to not throw good money after bad.  Your are entitled to opinion and perspective.  I came to here to share publicly the facts behind my failures and the cost to keep this stove running.


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## pelletizer (Jan 5, 2009)

I scrape the carbon off every 1 or 2 days my tubes are clean as can be, I think it is supposed to be done at least once a week?


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 5, 2009)

pelletizer said:
			
		

> I scrape the carbon off every 1 or 2 days my tubes are clean as can be, I think it is supposed to be done at least once a week?



Do you know if once a week is based on a certain amount of use?

I havent done the math but 3 tons over 5 seasons (~ Nov - Mar) isnt very much per week, on average.

Does this scraping need to be done as often as the stove is cleaned?  Are other folks scraping frequently ?


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## pelletizer (Jan 5, 2009)

Well I base it on just the heating season burning on average 1 bag a day, I admit I am anal cleaning my stove and am told so by my wife,
Even though you burn only .06 tons a year about 25 bags a year you should clean the tube more than once a year.
I scrape that caron every day or two but that is me.


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## Garry P (Jan 5, 2009)

theking said:
			
		

> I agree with NEStoveOwner on this one. A forum's purpose is to find answers and nothing in his posts indicate he is "trashing" anyone. This appears to be a case of the facts leading to a conclusion on GarryP's part, and one he doesn't like.
> 
> If I had the number of failures NEStoveOwner listed for a casual use piece of equipment that I purchased I probably would be bashing the company.
> 
> ...



Wow....


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## MCPO (Jan 5, 2009)

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> pelletizer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you ever checked the AC voltage going to the stove ?


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## sydney1963 (Jan 6, 2009)

When I look at the end of the tube and see any build up, I shut the stove down and during that time while the augur is still turning I scrape mine.  Pops right off in small slivers or chunks.  I'm talking maybe a teaspoon full.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 6, 2009)

I have checked to make sure the outlet is wired properly. 

I have not put any sort of line filter or voltage monitoring device on the line.

If the line was seeing some sort of spike or other abnormal feed, wouldnt the control board be the first to go?

That same breaker feeds a 52" TV, Xbox, Wii, Cable Box.  There have been no other premature electric failures in that room.

I did one more test yesterday (Sunday i did a bench test to monitor tempature on an unloaded motor).

I tested the current draw of just the motor (i pulled the second gear out the gearbox).

The current draw and tempature of the unit after 40 mins is the same as the fully assmebled unit.  This means the motor itself is failed and its not overheating
due to binding or friction in the gearbox.  I did observe that over time the gearbox will push all the grease to certain corners of the housing.

Maybe the gearbox should see a yearly lube?  I say this under the scenario that too much motor geartrain friction overworks the motor and that leads to motor failure.

The 25 pdvc is a flor unit correct?  Is there any possibility that the insert model is more prone to failure due to the heat being contained?  My motor outside the stove running on a bench reached 180F.  I have been researching Dayton and Fasco motors as a replacement to the Merkle.  Some of the Daytons have a flan blade mounted to the back end of the motor shaft to make it self cooling.


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## MCPO (Jan 6, 2009)

OK , by your own admission you failed to check the line voltage from the beginning and you still don`t know if the voltage is within tolerable specs. Not saying that this is the problem but certain test procedures should have been followed from the start rather than you posting complaints in multiple threads. IMO, your comments also teter on the brink of arrogance too but maybe you are in fact able to wind your own motors and offer valuable advice to the stove maker and such but you not knowing the voltage after 4 auger motor failures leaves me wondering.


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## webbie (Jan 6, 2009)

C'mon, guys, don't shoot the messenger!

NEStove has spent a lot of money and a lot of time on his stove and is not a satisfied customer. What if he was a "normal" customer who had to hire someone to even open the stove? He would have had to spend twice as much...or junk the stove.

We have no way of knowing if every motor and design that Englander used is within specs. Even if they were, many manufacturers of electric motors have big batches of problems...I have seen vast failure rates with blowers and other motors and even control boards from top name manufacturers.

See this picture and the one before it (hit left arrow at top).
https://www.hearth.com/visit/travistrip/source/180rejects.html

That is Travis industries who has two full time people running and checking blower motors before they go into a stove. Why? Because the manufacturers ship defective parts!

Just because Mike is greatly helpful does not mean every stove and component that comes off the assembly line is perfect. They never are......there are always a certain percentage of problems, and most companies choose to deal with them one by one. What that means is that even if a company finds out a slightly wrong or underspeced component was used - as long as it does not render the product unsafe they are likely to only fix the ones that break.

An easy solution might be for Englander to consider a longer warranty on their parts.....just a suggestion, of course. It might cost a little, but customers are usually willing to pay a few dollars more for peace of mind...I know I am.

In any case, NE is correct in that one of the reasons for existence of these forums is to report on problems and get help. On the other hand, we are not the official Englander Help Site...nor that for any other manufacturers, so this is just ad hoc.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 6, 2009)

Gio said:
			
		

> OK , by your own admission you failed to check the line voltage from the beginning and you still don`t know if the voltage is within tolerable specs.



Let me restate what i know.  I have posted info and findings both in this thread and another.

From the beginning i have known my feed motor is getting 110v.  That is not the same as checking the line voltage at the outlet.  Is there a 30msec pulse to 125v?  I dont know.  The average home owner doesnt have the means to check that.  I dont.  I am not going to hire an electrician or electrical engineer to put a trace on my house power feed until i see something else in my house failing.  I do have a close friend who is an EE and has been helpful and great at providing input on possibly failure modes, if i had other failures id been inclined to ask him to put a scope on it.

These motors are rudimentary in design (shaded pole).  The metal oxide layer in the semi conductors of my other electronic devices, on the same feed, are much more susceptible to damage and they SHOULD fail before a crude motor.



			
				Gio said:
			
		

> IMO, your comments also teter on the brink of arrogance



I apologize that i dont post in a more PC manner.



			
				Gio said:
			
		

> but maybe you are in fact able to wind your own motors and offer valuable advice to the stove maker and such but you not knowing the voltage after 4 auger motor failures leaves me wondering.



I do know the average voltage to the motor, do you still wonder about my techincal knowledge?  Maybe that was missed somewhere in my writing or your reading.  That is technically not the same as knowing the exact voltage of the supply line at any one moment in time.   I dont know which voltage you are saying i dont know (exact at any time duration or average steady state).

I did more bench testing on a failed motor (current draw of motor w/o geartrain, temp).  Im still trying to connect the dots.  I dont think i can know more until i do an individual part swap (stator, winding, etc) between a bad and good motor.

I have also been in contact with Merkle Korff (supplier to Englander) and two other motor manufacturers.  My motivation is easy, stop buying motors at an interval that is beyond normal and possibly help other stove owners who have come on here with a failed auger motor.  I am not the only one who posted with a failure but agree whole heartedly that i have been trying to connect the dots on what seems to be a lot of posts for related failures.

I have PM'd Mike and he was nice enough to reply.  My issue isnt with Mike.  I will continue to PM with him until he, I or both of us come to a conclusion, result or decision to stop.  I have shared additional details with him on my thoughts/findings.  

If you or anyone else is an Electrical Engineer or a Design Engineer who does shaded pole motors or gearbox design I'd love your help.  If none of the above, i dont know how posts on my character lead to a solution.  If your one of the above but dont want to help because im not PC, than of course i recognize thats my issue.


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## MCPO (Jan 6, 2009)

Webmaster said:
			
		

> C'mon, guys, don't shoot the messenger!
> 
> NEStove has spent a lot of money and a lot of time on his stove and is not a satisfied customer. What if he was a "normal" customer who had to hire someone to even open the stove? He would have had to spend twice as much...or junk the stove.
> 
> ...




  Actually we have no way of knowing if the components in the stoves sold by you are any better do we? Maybe they ought to offer longer warranties too?
 Being a dealer it might be more wise for you not to take a side in any brand dispute. It would simply reek with bias.
 I`d not be so willing to offer a viewpoint on this issue for that reason. 
 It`s apparent and shown that Mike had satisfactorily assisted NE throughout the life of the warranty . The stove is now 5 yrs old and has only 5 tons of pellets put thru it (?) but we have only his word for it. The warranty is over by his addmittance.
 From what  I`ve read in the past 8 months on this forum there are but few dealers who has given  more help or manufacturers who stand by their products as well,  let alone  even entertain a dialogue with anyone who has bashed his product as NE has .


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## MCPO (Jan 6, 2009)

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> Gio said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 110 VAC is rather low IMO and bordering on being a bit inefficient.  Not always problematic but still on the low side. Since most electrical products  , especially electrical motors, are manufactured to minimum specs (cheaply made) it`s always advisable to supply them with something other than questionable low voltage. My opinion as a certified electrician for the past 48 yrs is that 120-125VAC is a good voltage to supply a house with and it has been always my standard proceedure to notify the power company of voltages encountered that were lower than 115VAC in other peoples homes. 
 Again . I`m not sure low voltage is your problem but 4 bad auger motors has to be a rare issue indeed.
 FWIW, Never assume the power company is supplying you with adequate voltages at all times and never assume your electrical problems weren`t  caused from street power. That`s why you might be wise to call that experienced electrician and have him assure you your supply voltage is fine. It could well be worth the cost of his service call as opposed to 4 auger motors..


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 7, 2009)

I received a rather warm PM from natnyer:

_You shouldn’t own a pellet stove. In order to own a stove you have to be smarter than the iron used to make it. You aren’t. I have the same stove and love it. Have a nice day and burn oil or gas you really shouldn’t own a pellet stove. _


I repeat the above:

If you or anyone else is an Electrical Engineer or a Design Engineer who does shaded pole motors or gearbox design I’d love your help.  If none of the above, i dont know how posts (in this case PM) on my character lead to a solution.   

natnyer i am really happy that you own a trouble free stove but i just have to ask ,  why am i even worth the effort of a PM?  *You obviously arent here to help.*


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## doghouse (Jan 7, 2009)

Every forum has characters like him.  Just remind him that its a long fall off a high horse.  It would seem to me that you shouldn't have to be an Electrical engineer to own and operate your pellet stove.  You should not have to go around testing this, measuring that or running diagnostics on things just to get your stove to work.  Having that many auger moters go bad on you seems to me like something the stove manufacturer should oun up to.  Keep plugging, its the only way.


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## flowercat (Jan 7, 2009)

I have used an Englander Stove 25PDVC and heat the entire house for the most part.  The Englander stove and customer service have been great.  You could put a small UPS between the stove and the oputlet.  The UPS I have was reasonable and it verifies the quality of the power and will use the battery if the power quality is questionable.


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## Garry P (Jan 7, 2009)

doghouse said:
			
		

> Every forum has characters like him.  Just remind him that its a long fall off a high horse.  It would seem to me that you shouldn't have to be an Electrical engineer to own and operate your pellet stove.  You should not have to go around testing this, measuring that or running diagnostics on things just to get your stove to work.  Having that many auger moters go bad on you seems to me like something the stove manufacturer should oun up to.  Keep plugging, its the only way.



I have to disagree that his problem sounds like something the stove manufacturer needs to own up to. If there were multiple people with multiple failures in their auger motor I may agree, however there are hundreds of Englander owners on this very site, and only two or three seem to be having problems, and only one that I have seen has been through four motors. Now, this person also points out that the real problem is a design flaw in the motor, and if Englander would only work with him, he would help them to solve it. My guess is if it were a design flaw, there would be many more of us with problems. 

Secondly, there are a great many post on this site from people who go on and on about the quality of service they have recieved from Englanders customer service department, yet this same person also has problems with their customer service. In fact his statements of the problems he has had with them are so far off the charts from everyone elses experience, that it again leads me to believe that jusy maybe he is the reason for the problem.

And lastly, do you really think that he just somehow, out of the hundreds, if not thousands of customers that they deal with, got 4 bad motors sent to him, and the most absurd customer service I have ever heard of? The theme I see between his experiences and almost everyone elses, is him.


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## doghouse (Jan 7, 2009)

GarryP said:
			
		

> doghouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Every 7th or 8th post on this site is an Englander owner with some sort of problem to his or her stove (two or three having problems?).  Most get resolved, some, like his, don't.  How many pellet stove owners out there get bad customer service and don't know this web site exists so they can vent?  We only know the experience of those who log-on here.  Regardeless, nestoveowner came here hoping to find answers.  Most offered sound advice, some challenged his intelligence.   Four auger moters go bad?  You know its possible.  Maybe 4 auger moters is the symptom, not the problem.   NEstoveowner surely doesn't need me to defend him and yes, we do only have his side of the story.  "..most absurd customer I have ever heard,"  yea, it happens and not everybody thinks its all his fault.

Englander stove owner.


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## webbie (Jan 7, 2009)

There are so many forces at work that it is silly for anyone to second guess a customer and their experience...either good or bad. Having sold thousands of stoves and manufactured others, I found a LOT of factors at play which determine whether "weaknesses" in a product show up.

First one is how the stove is used. We sold hundreds of certain brand names in NJ and had very few problems, but a dealer that sold the same stoves in NH would have a 50% failure rate. Why? Well, simply because our customers did not use them as hard and therefore expose the weakness.

MANY customers rarely use their stoves. Really. A lot of pellet stoves use one ton a year. A lot of wood stoves use one cord a year. Really......

I'm all for folks exposing their problems here....but having the peanut gallery throwing in their opinions as to whether or not it is a real problem seems fruitless. 

It must be approached from a mechanical standpoint. It's fairly easy to do that. Certainly every Englander does not go through a motor every year. And certainly 4 replacement motors are unlikely to be bad. You can work it by process of elimination. Is this an insert? I heard that mentioned. Yes, it might get hotter and many fewer are sold, so it could be a design problems.

Or, the stove itself could have been one of those "friday" models where some tolerance - example - auger in the feed tube - makes it so that the thing gets stuck and overheats the motor. 

I'm not an expert mechanic, but if you follow these things piece by piece you can usually come up with what the problem is. Off the cuff, 180 degrees sounds like a high temp for a motor to run at. Maybe it does need that cooling fan/shaft thing.

There are several possibilities. But the least likely is that our friend with the problems is putting some kind of hex on his stove. If and when we get this taken care of, it will add to our knowledge...including that of the factory. That is how products are improved.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 8, 2009)

FWIW , NE and i have been communicating via PM over the last couple days and we will soon (when time permits us) dig into this stove and see what the issue is. when we are done i will leave it to NE to post results if he wishes to do so. we have not in any way quarrelled and i feel that i can bring resolution or at least bring light to the actual cause of the issue.


film at 11   

as for the derision, i would hope that civility would prevail in the forums, its not needed  nor is it helpful


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 8, 2009)

Mike and i have exchanged several PMs so far.

Both in my PMs and in my posts there have been no attacks on Englander and Mike.  The communication has been straight forward and informative on both parts.

I am sure some would love if this turned into some bash fest well i wont make it that.

The Englander representative i am dealing with now has been gracious enough to give this issue some effort.  I think Englander could use one or two more Mike's 

Our next step is putting time on the calendar so he and i can try and figure out whats going on.  He's a busy guy and i need to leave work in order to be at the stove and talk through some stuff.  Because i am here to find a solution (and not make attacks on other forums members) its worth it for me.

Outcome to be posted ......


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 8, 2009)

GarryP said:
			
		

> Secondly, there are a great many post on this site from people who go on and on about the quality of service they have recieved from Englanders customer service department,



From the customer service dept in general or Mike specifically?  Meaning, have you called their tech support to talk to anyone other than Mike?

I am not here to bash anyone ... could you tell me who else you dealt with at Englander?  I would like to see if your experience with the other people there are the same as mine.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 8, 2009)

doghouse said:
			
		

> Maybe 4 auger moters is the symptom, not the problem.



Still open to that theory.  

I need Englanders help to prove that one way or another.  They previously declined that effort.  Mike has agree to take on the effort.


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## doghouse (Jan 8, 2009)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> FWIW , NE and i have been communicating via PM over the last couple days and we will soon (when time permits us) dig into this stove and see what the issue is. when we are done i will leave it to NE to post results if he wishes to do so. we have not in any way quarrelled and i feel that i can bring resolution or at least bring light to the actual cause of the issue.
> 
> 
> film at 11
> ...




Thanks, Mike.

Any info on the 'new' stove?


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## donbryce (Jan 9, 2009)

WHEW, I just read the entire thread, trying to find out if the OP's 'whining' noise was possibly caused by something other than the blower motor, and sifting through all the discussions, I found nothing. I started reading because of my similar problem, which I'll describe.
During start-up (25-PDVC), mine whines, like the sound of ringing metal, possibly caused by resonance from the motor. The sound changes slightly when you push down hard on the hopper latches, or adjust the tightness of the door closer rod, which is why I think it's coming from induced vibrations in the steel structure, not the motor itself. I adjusted the hopper latches per the manual instruction, and always run the stove with the door tight BTW. 
After the stove reaches set temperature, and the room air fan kicks in, the sound disappears. Yes, disappears, not gets masked by the fan noise. When I press the 'off' button, the whining/ringing gradually comes back up in volume, louder as it cools down.
I called tech help at Englander and the guy suggested it would go away after the stove had broken in, since I've only burned less than 20 bags so far.
Anyone else had this experience?


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## slvrblkk (Jan 9, 2009)

donbryce,

I know exactly what you are talking about, my stove does the same thing. As soon as the pellets ignite, the sound goes away. I'm into my third season with it and it still does it but it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's just the way it is.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 9, 2009)

donbryce said:
			
		

> WHEW, I just read the entire thread, trying to find out if the OP's 'whining' noise was possibly caused by something other than the blower motor, and sifting through all the discussions, I found nothing. I started reading because of my similar problem, which I'll describe.
> During start-up (25-PDVC), mine whines, like the sound of ringing metal, possibly caused by resonance from the motor. The sound changes slightly when you push down hard on the hopper latches, or adjust the tightness of the door closer rod, which is why I think it's coming from induced vibrations in the steel structure, not the motor itself. I adjusted the hopper latches per the manual instruction, and always run the stove with the door tight BTW.
> After the stove reaches set temperature, and the room air fan kicks in, the sound disappears. Yes, disappears, not gets masked by the fan noise. When I press the 'off' button, the whining/ringing gradually comes back up in volume, louder as it cools down.
> I called tech help at Englander and the guy suggested it would go away after the stove had broken in, since I've only burned less than 20 bags so far.
> Anyone else had this experience?



 if the noise is only when the stove is cool, such as early in startup or late in shutdown , the culprit is  the airwash intake holes. look under the front edge of the hull of the stove , there are 2 holes in the front weld pass there , these are the air entry points for the airwash. to see if this is the cause of the noise, turn the stove on after locating the holes , cover one , then the other one at a time , if the noise ceases completely  when covered then thats it. easy fix, a little bump of high temp silicone right next to the offending hole changes the way the air enters the hole and makes the noise go away. its not a "breaking in" thing , mine will still do it if i remove the little blurb of silicone i have on mine. its not harmful to the stove and is not a sign of an impending component issue with the stove. feel free to contact me to discuss it if you like  but do not be concerned with it being somthing that will cause a problem functionally with the stove.


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## slvrblkk (Jan 9, 2009)

stoveguy2esw said:
			
		

> donbryce said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mike thanks, that's exactly what causes that sound. That sound really doesn't bother us but it's nice to know where it's coming from.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 9, 2009)

that model has had that trait since inception  though all do  not do it many do. mine did as well, the fix  i mentioned does work and is non invasive and hidden from view. i will admit the sound wasnt much of a nuisence to me and was almost like having an alarm to let you know when the stove was out of fuel and shutting down. i did the fix to ensure that it worked.


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## Skunk (Jan 10, 2009)

Our 25-pdvc began whining today after a month's use. The noise is directly related with the fan blower setting. Turning the blower to 0 momentarily and then back on made the noise disappear. Will open the stove up to check out the room and exhaust blowers. It's got to be one of the two, right?


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## PunKid8888 (Jan 10, 2009)

Another thing to look for is a rubbing between the auger motors and the rear service panel.  Mine some times start rubbing and that whole panel resonates.  I give it a wack and it goes away.

Also, I have burned through 40 bags this (my first season) and my lower auger motor went within the first 10.  The service guys were great they walked me through a quick fix for the motor and I was burning again while I waited for a new motor, only took 3 days too. I think the service is excellent.

Honestly.  My 2 cents, Englander's seams to be a good stove for an extremely good price.  And I think with that price u don't get the BMW or the Lexus, but maybe more like the Ford Taurus, Dodge Neon, or Chevy Caviler,  Sure they are not luxurious  but they get the job done and when they do break they are a lot easy to fix.  I don't know I am a car guy.


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## pelletizer (Jan 11, 2009)

PUNKID888, Resonating back panel just loosen up the back panel screws and adjust the panel, 

SKUNK, I just replaced my exhaust motor due to whining and WOW is it quiet now.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 11, 2009)

Skunk said:
			
		

> Our 25-pdvc began whining today after a month's use. The noise is directly related with the fan blower setting. Turning the blower to 0 momentarily and then back on made the noise disappear. Will open the stove up to check out the room and exhaust blowers. It's got to be one of the two, right?




if you set blower speed to 0 and noise stopped, its the room fan you want to check. blower speed control does not affect combustion blower


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## Skunk (Jan 11, 2009)

Right, great. Have taken the rear panel off and it's definitely the room fan next to the control unit. Will call sometime I guess.


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## stoveguy2esw (Jan 12, 2009)

you can call , or you can file an online warranty claim for the blower if defective, but the stove must be registered in our files first , if you have not registered , do an online warranty registration and also file an online claim, we will register your stove and ship a replacement blower if requested.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 17, 2009)

Update

Mike and i have not been able to arrange a time where i am at home an he is at work.  Still hoping to coordinate with Mike and do some debug.  

I took the previously known bad motor that i was running tests on (not the current motor in the stove) and i rewound the windings.

A friend who is an EE put some code on a microchip connected to a laptop to count switch closures.  I rigged a micro switch up to the tool post of my lathe.  I put a long bolt through the windings spool , the bolt was held in the lathe chuck.  A long metal arm/tab on the bolt triggered the switch every time the chuck made a revolution.  888 turns of 24 gauge wire.  

I have rewound the spool and cant run tests right now because i had to epoxy some cracks in the plastic spool.  Tomorrow after the epoxy is dry i will run the same tests i did previously (current draw and temp without load outside the stove).  If its the same or better i will put it in the stove and see how long it runs.

My hunch has always been windings and this should prove it one way or another.

The coating on the winding wire i took off was very "cracked".  As I pull it through my finger tips and all i could feel was jagged for about the first 100 turns during unwind.

Will post findings when i have some.


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## NEStoveOwner (Jan 22, 2009)

Another update.

Mike and i have not be able to arrange a time for him to be at work and me to be at home.  He works some Satrudays and i was hoping for a saturday call so i wouldnt have to take time off work.  

I completed winding the bobbin and i ran into an issue.  My winding is oversized to the original winding by 1/8".  When i went to put the motor back togther the overall size of the bobbin can not fit in the motor frame any longer.  I was hoping to use this to prove or disprove my failed winding theory.  There is one other option here and that is to buy a motor assembly (without gearbox) as there are some suppliers selling this stand alone.  The catalogs i went through didnt prove conclusively it would fit.  Dayton offers them.  They are called C Frame Shaded pole motors.  Until i measured the input RPM of the Merkle Korff i dont know that i could swap it out.  I would also need to adapt the end of the Granger armature to make it mesh into the MK gearbox.  If i could get my hands on one to look at its possible i could determine if i could use it for just the windings.  They only cost ~$17 at Grangers.  That might have to be plan A2 - if Plan B doesnt work.  



I have already Plan B and am giving Mike the courtesy of a heads up and comment via PM before i do any posting on what i have done / discovered.   

I will continue to post my findings and updates.  Regardless of what i find and end up doing I will post the good and the bad.  As you can see from above i thought i could wind a bobbin and i found out i couldnt but it was worth the effort.

As much bashing as i have taken .... i will keep coming back.


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## chowder63 (Jan 22, 2010)

I have found alot of this Noise you are all talking about is the cover to this motor..  I have had this stove for 5 years and have not replaced a part yet..  My blower motor pu-076002b is making lots of noise but if i put my hand in the whole and hold the motor it shuts up and is very quite..  after removing the motor and taking a closer look at it..  there is play between the black cover and the mounting bracket very small but enough to cause a loud vibration noise..  Check this out before replacing the motor...  or you can sell me your motors for $5.00 a peace..  Just my two cents..


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## pelletizer (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey check it out you posted almost to the day 1 year after the last post. You say you had your stove for 5 years, I had my stove for only 6 and 9 months when I had the whining resonating sounds, I had a different motor (fasco enclosed) than you as well, and ended up replacing both motors in my stove at 6 and 9 months


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## little_hawk_59 (Jan 23, 2010)

my motors are good i have the 11 year old room blower and replaced the draft motor this year happy with mine


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## bouch48 (Jan 29, 2010)

Firestarter, What did you do about that play between the cover and mounting bracket, I also have that same problem but do not want to spend 130 bucks for new combustion blower. Thanks

Duane


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## chowder63 (Feb 9, 2010)

sorry so late with the reply ..  i tried to get the cover off with no luck so i had some heat proof cauking that i put all the way around that gap..  let it dry and your good..  worked like a charm.


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## bouch48 (Feb 9, 2010)

I ended up removing motor and saw that there a little metal tabs that hold this housing together, I hit them with hammer and screwdriver and it tightened up the housing and now there is no more noise.


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## Birdman Jack (Feb 9, 2010)

I sat here and read all four pages with a lot of interest. I hope to see a decent outcome from all of this. I saw a problem like this once before. It was a refridgerator  that was going thru compressors about twice a year. After replacing four compressors it turned out the guy was at the end of the power company's run and after checking line voltage which checked about 119 volts we figured that could not be the problem but when checked a couple hours later in late afternoon when people were just getting home it dropped to 113 volts. He was getting starved for juice at night. The power company added a transformer and that cured the problem. Worth checking. Waiting for the outcome and the results. I called yesterday to Englander and told them my igniter had quit. I talked to a tech named Brandon and with his help it is working great the last two starts. Turns out that when you remove the burn pot on the 25pdvc you have to make sure the gasket is perfect and the pot is tight against it. Any kind of space and it will not ignite. I had pulled the burn pot out to clean it and it must not have been set just right although I was sure it was. Just something to keep in mind. Brandon  took the time to wait to make sure everything was good before he let me go. That's great service.


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