# VC Dutchwest "Large Cat" 2461, my diary thread (w/ pics)



## VCBurner (Feb 24, 2010)

Before you read on please beware that this is a very long thread.  I intended to keep this as diary as stated in the title.  This will help me to realize its recorded history and to learn from it.  Also, I hope it'll serve others who are also learning to burn this stove or similar stoves.  Thank you for reading and adding to this thread! Edited on 2/21/11. 



I guess I finally get to live up to my VC name.  

Only a few weeks ago, I stumbled upon this site, while researching on stoves I was looking at.  I had given a deposite on a reconditioned "Large Cat."  This thing was taken appart completely, then put back together with new gaskets and cement as well as some brand new parts.  It was a roller coaster of decision making. But after a long time I decided to stay with my original choice.  The price was really good and the stove is only 5-6 years old.  I was really glad to get it home tonight!  It may not be a BK, Woodstock or Jotul, but I trust this stove will serve me very well for as long as I own it.  I'm also proud of joinning the DUTCHWEST LARGE CAT family!!

So, thanks to all the people who helped me with this decision, wether you like or dislike the Dutchwest stoves.  I've learned so much from the members on this site, in so little time.  So much so, that I feel I can make more educated decisions about stoves on my own.
I'm laid off so the research on this site has kept me sane.  I feel like I'm part of the Hearth.com family!  I've learned a lot from all of you, and laughed with you too.  This is a good place on the web!! 

I'm going to break in the new seams tomorrow then will fire it up to see how well it works.  I know it'll take a while to learn the new stove.  But I'm really glad to trade up to an EPA rated stove.  I'll post back with the results and some pics after it's installed.  Take care fellow burners and burn on!


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## Todd (Feb 24, 2010)

Congtats on the new stove. I always liked the looks of those Dutchwest's, keep us posted.


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## Highbeam (Feb 24, 2010)

I too liked the looks, and of course the large firebox and really long splits that they accept.


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## VCBurner (Feb 24, 2010)

Thank you Todd and Highbeam, I'm elated to get this thing home after a long wait.  We had a snow day perfect for a break in fire!  Kids are home and the stove will be going as soon as I get off Hearth.com.


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## raybonz (Feb 24, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Thank you Todd and Highbeam, I'm elated to get this thing home after a long wait.  We had a snow day perfect for a break in fire!  Kids are home and the stove will be going as soon as I get off Hearth.com.



Hey congrats on your new Dutchwest Large Convection! Your stove is an updated version of mine with bigger glass and simpler to control air.. These stove last a long time and are very efficient to boot.. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.. 

Good Luck!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 24, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

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Thanks Ray!  The guy who sold it to me said this was a workhorse.  He swore by the efficiency and durability of this stove.  He's been installing and servicing stoves for nearly twenty years.  His opinion was a major influence on the purchase.  Another major influence, were the many happy Dutchwest owners, such as yourself, whose posts reflected good experiences.  I have read many of your posts and other's and thank you for all the information.  I'll continue to keep in touch and ask questions to fine tune my skills with the Dutchwest.  Take care brother and burn on!  

Now I'll go downstairs to light the second break in fire!


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## raybonz (Feb 24, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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I'm glad my posts helped.. I and many others have posted lots about these stoves.. Read all you can as most answers are probably buried in this forum somewhere.. If you didn't get a manual I found a pdf manual for that stove.. I still like how my stove looks after looking at it over 20 yrs. Post some pics so we can see your install..FYI mine is the FA264CCL model ... 

FYI I never use the front doors and load from the side door.. On this stove it runs much better with the ashbin full so I never empty it and this doesn't hurt anything.. Perhaps this isn't a problem on the newer generation stoves like yours? Where is this guy that rebuilds these stoves?

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 24, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

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I will, read that is.  I printed out a manual a while ago.  I really like the looks too.  The pics probably won't do it justice because it's in an unfinished basement.  Kiddy cornered in a foundation and block wall corner with a concrete floor under it.  At least there's nothing combustible around it!  I will send out some pics soon.


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Picture 1 is a side by side shot of the Surdiac and Dutchwest.  Last night burning with the Surdiac!  Taken last night. 2/23/10
Picture 2 is from today after installation.  I'd like to put some nice field stone on the background to really make it pop out!  I'm about to start the third break in fire in a little while.

The Surdiac looks bigger but it only has just over one cubic foot box.  The Dutch has at least twice as much room.


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## Hanko (Feb 25, 2010)

That thing you have in the pipe, cant remember the name of them, but BAD very BAD. Anyway youll like the DW cat, my brothers been running the exact stove for 15 years. I have a DW non cat which I guess you have to be a rocket scientist to operate. Get rid of the blower jobber do in the chimney pipe, dangerous


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## raybonz (Feb 25, 2010)

Hanko said:
			
		

> That thing you have in the pipe, cant remember the name of them, but BAD very BAD. Anyway youll like the DW cat, my brothers been running the exact stove for 15 years. I have a DW non cat which I guess you have to be a rocket scientist to operate. Get rid of the blower jobber do in the chimney pipe, dangerous



Yup I agree that's a real creosote creator especially with a cat stove.. My pipe usually runs about 250-300 degrees in normal operation and the pipe stays clean..

Ray


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## raybonz (Feb 25, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Picture 1 is a side by side shot of the Surdiac and Dutchwest.  Last night burning with the Surdiac!  Taken last night. 2/23/10
> Picture 2 is from today after installation.  I'd like to put some nice field stone on the background to really make it pop out!  I'm about to start the third break in fire in a little while.
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> The Surdiac lokks bigger but it only has just over one cubic foot box.  The Dutch has at least twice as much room.



Stove looks great! Looks like new, good job on the rebuild.. Just get rid of the heatilator thing as u will have problems with creosote...

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks Ray and Hanko, I have another thread where I go into detail about the Magic Heat.  It creates heat, major heat, out of waist gasses and yes, cools them off in the process.  But not to the point of being as dangerous as most non believers say.  I clean my connectors once a month and the top section only has a slight bit more dry soot then the bottom section.  With dry wood my chimney has stayed as clean as a whistle.  


> Stove looks great! Looks like new, good job on the rebuild


Thanks Ray,I think the guy takes pride in his work and it shows! It's got a couple minor flaws but does look new.  Third break in fire here I come!!

Here's a link to the Magic Heat thread:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51519/P22/


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## dougand3 (Feb 25, 2010)

"But not to the point of being as dangerous as most non believers say." Pook??? Stat U??? Me thinx so, eh?
Now, you have an EPA stove...I'd watch stove pipe and chimney VERY closely as you extract this magic heat outa those pipes. You may have ice crystals spewing out at the rain cap.


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

dougand3 said:
			
		

> "But not to the point of being as dangerous as most non believers say." Pook??? Stat U??? Me thinx so, eh?
> Now, you have an EPA stove...I'd watch stove pipe and chimney VERY closely as you extract this magic heat outa those pipes. You may have ice crystals spewing out at the rain cap.



 I don't know how the reclaimer will affect the operation of the new stove. The MH reduces flue temps by 75 degrees.  I guess, if you constantly starve your fire or burn green wood and hook one of these up you will have a great formula for a chimney fire.  I will watch the chimney and connectors closely to see how they react to the combination of a new stove and a reclaimer.


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## Todd (Feb 25, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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Just keep a good eye on it. I've used MH before with an EPA stove and it was a creosote factory. Your new cat stove is going to run a lot lower flue temps than your old stove did and it will need every bit of that to keep the draft going because it's so efficient. Not trying to bash you, just my experience.


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## Hanko (Feb 25, 2010)

hey chill guy, your post said thanks for all the advice. you posted a pic of your stove and a few noticed something that might cause an issue, so we gave you some advice. Kepp the majic heat for all I care. Yes iam familiar with them. my inlaws had one years ago and didnt know much about them and had a a majic heat fire. Good luck


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Hanko said:
			
		

> your post said thanks for all the advice. you posted a pic of your stove and a few noticed something that might cause an issue, so we gave you some advice.  Yes iam familiar with them. my inlaws had one years ago and didnt know much about them and had a a majic heat fire. Good luck



Hanko, I was responding to Dougand3's post with the whole "Pook" punch line.  Though I meant no disrespect toward his response either.    I edited my previous comment.  It did come out pretty harsh! I do appreciate all the responses and opinions shared here.  I know those reclaimers tend to slow down draft and may facilitate the condensation of flue gasses to the pipes and chimney.  I also will keep in mind that the new stove will operate differently and may not be as compatible with the reclaimer.  By no means did I mean to aim that response at you or Raybonz.  

So, please don't be offended any of you.   

Thanks again and burn on!


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Just got finished with the break in and after a final cool off I established a bed of coals with the damper open.  When the cat temp reached 400, I closed the damper and the primary down almost all the way.  Opened the secondary 1 1/2 turns and the thing seemed to work.  Flames were dancing.  The cat temp kept rising slowly.  Firebox temp at 400-500.  I loaded up the firebox with six good size splits on top of the deep coal bed and let the fire re-establish itself.  A few minutes later the cat was at about 525 and firebox temp 500.  I closed the damper again to engage the cat.  I hope I'm doing the right thing.  We'll see how things look in the morning.  Primary is shut almost all the way and secondary open 1 turn.  Please feel free to comment if you have any input.  Thanks and good night.  

Happy to be burning in this new stove! :cheese:


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Just went downstairs for one last check before bed.  The cat is at 850, but firebox temp was at 300.  There were no visible flames but the cat was definitely glowing.  Does this sound right for an overnight burn?  Good night to all!


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## Hanko (Feb 25, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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No Problem, dont worry about it.


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## FireWalker (Feb 25, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Just went downstairs for one last check before bed.  The cat is at 850, but firebox temp was at 300.  There were no visible flames but the cat was definitely glowing.  Does this sound right for an overnight burn?  Good night to all!



I ran that same stove for 12 seasons. Be very serious about your wood supply, no green or semi seasoned wood! The dryer the better, ask me how I know. Sounds like you may have a leg up on this already.

Regarding your first overnight burn, yes you can have a flameless fire as combustion can happen in the upper chamber and by the sounds of it (a glowing combustor) it is. A word of warning, when the combustor falls below it's active temp and you still have a good load of fuel in there my stove would let you know it was unhappy by burbing smoke (exploding gasses) out the front air intake ports. This is a function of dampering the fire down too much when trying to achieve long slow burns. I'm not sure if the MH installation will aggrivate this, worth keeping an eye on it. Run that thing hot with damper open once EVERY DAY to keep your connector/chimney clean. If you hear crackling sounds in the connector (during hot damper open start-ups) this means you have some build-up. 

Many people here have experience with MH and you have access to a vast knowledge base right here so read up and keep asking questions. IMHO, the stove you picked comes from the factory as one very efficient wood burner and thats without the MH installed.


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Hey Firewalker, how goes it?  Thanks for the response!  

     Your posts also help me decide to buy this stove.  And I will heed the warnings about the dry wood.  I have about four cords that are semi split to manageable "big split size." The big splits were easier to move into a pick up truck.   I still have to re-split these and stack them properly.  They are all covered under tarps and off the ground so they'll dry up quicly when I do the final split. My plan is to get 12 cords cut and split before the summer.  I have already made arrangements to have a splitter brought over by a friend within the next couple of weeks.  If all goes according to planned there will be 6 cords sitting stacked and split by Spring and the other six cords will be done by the end of april.  This 12 cord supply should get me 2-3 burn seasons.  I'll continue to scrounge throughout the Summer to build up at least another six cords for the 3rd and 4th year.  So if all goes well, I'll have 18 cords by next heating season, all cut split and stacked!!

     The overnight burn went fairly well I would say, at least for an inexperienced EPA stove burner.  I loaded the box with six good size splits at 12:30am and still had one half burned log in the back on top af a huge bed of coals at 7:30am.  The front half had a nicely burned log in the form of a giant one piece coal.  The fire box was at 300, but the glass had a couple of dark spots on it.  I put in two good sized splits and opened the damper to crank things up.  
     The indoor temp was 66 when I finally got done with the last brek in fire cool down.  By the time I went to bed, it had reached 69, with the overnight burn on low.  It was still 69 when I got up.  I have a lot to learn now.  I would like to learn how to crank up the temp to put out major heat without overfires but with the damper shut.  It's 71 in here now the cat temp is at 550 and the firebox temp 325.  There's good heat coming out, but I want the cat at 1000 and firebox at 550.  How do I get this going?


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

Ok, I turned down the secondary and the primary air and both temps went up cat at 750 and box at 375.  Strange thing, I've never used an EPA stove before, but I'll learn, eventually.  I feel like I've already learned a lot with less than 24 hours of operation.  Does anyone have any advice?


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## Todd (Feb 25, 2010)

Your going to have to keep playing with different air settings and checking your temps. Basically if you want more heat you need to keep good red coals and a good flame going, that will heat up the whole stove. For those longer burns keep the flame down and let the cat do most of the work.


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## FireWalker (Feb 25, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Ok, I turned down the secondary and the primary air and both temps went up cat at 750 and box at 375.  Strange thing, I've never used an EPA stove before, but I'll learn, eventually.  I feel like I've already learned a lot with less than 24 hours of operation.  Does anyone have any advice?



That dial on the side.....I could never master what that thing does, if 1 1/2 turns open works for you then thats it. I think mine found a happy place at about 1/2 turn open. 

If you want a hot cat fire run the primary air open about half way, this will get things good and hot although I'm not sure I would leave it overnight open more than a good 1/4. Remember you have a convection stove (iron box inside an iron box with an airspace in between) so stove top temps will not get super hot, you can't boil water on the stove top, steam yes but rolling boil no. Try the thermometer on the side loading door for temp readings as this is only one layer of iron between the fire and the room. The hottest mine ever got was unintended when the bypass damper was left open and the primary damper wide open. The stove was cranking heat and as far as I could see didn't hurt anything. I forget, what is the cat operating range on the probe? I seem to remember temps on that gage going considerably higher than 750 before overfire during normal heating temps. I just remembered something else, with mine if you really got it cranking getting ready to close bypass, the primary air damper would become hard to operate/close. This happened to you yet?

No worries, keep experimenting, avoid the too hots and the too lows and you will be fine. Going into spring don't be surprised if getting a full blown cat engaged fire is too much heat, you may find that burning a few splits on low air/bypass open is just the ticket. Good luck!


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## VCBurner (Feb 25, 2010)

I suppose this is a tough time to try to learn to operate with the temps being so up and down!  I havent had the primary door problem.  The cat was at 1000 last night too.  I gotta run I'll post again later thanks for the advice.


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## raybonz (Feb 26, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Thanks Ray and Hanko, I have another thread where I go into detail about the Magic Heat.  It creates heat, major heat, out of waist gasses and yes, cools them off in the process.  But not to the point of being as dangerous as most non believers say.  I clean my connectors once a month and the top section only has a slight bit more dry soot then the bottom section.  With dry wood my chimney has stayed as clean as a whistle.
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Sounds like you have things under control and I'm glad the Magic Heat is working out for you.. What you say about creosote makes sense as the stove reduces that dramatically... 

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 26, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

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Hey Ray,

I PM'd you about the guy who fixes the stoves.  He's out near Fitchburg State College.  I'm having a hard time reproducing the 1000 cat temp I had last night.  I had it up to 750 earlier today but could not play with it too much because I was out most of the day.  I'm determined to get the temps up again, though it has kept the house a comfy 72 all day.  I had a deep bed of coals, a good strong fire on three good size splits, box temps up to 500 cat up to 550 with the damper open, then closed the damper and primary half way,
secondary 1 1/2 turns.  Half hour later, the cat is at 850 and box at 360.  No flames since two minutes after the damper went down.  How do I keep the flames going with the damper shut and cat lit up?  Is it possible?  The cat is glowing but I want more! How do I do it?


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## Green Energy (Feb 26, 2010)

Hey VC burner,

Congratulations on your new set up.  I burned a large VC cat stove for 18 years and was very happy with it.  Great all nighter stove.  You will get the hang of it and love it.


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## BrotherBart (Feb 26, 2010)

The Jotul would be just cruising along right about now.  :lol: 

The Devil made me say that.  :coolsmirk:

The Devil also said that if the Magic Heat wasn't stealing your draft that damned stove would be kickin.


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## VCBurner (Feb 26, 2010)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> The Jotul would be just cruising along right about now.  :lol:
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> The Devil made me say that.  :coolsmirk:
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> The Devil also said that if the Magic Heat wasn't stealing your draft that damned stove would be kickin.



LMAO :lol: 
It never fails when you comment!



> The Jotul would be just cruising along right about now.


You're probably right.  Though it is 73 in here right now, but not that cold outside 38 ï¿½F .



> The Devil also said that if the Magic Heat wasnï¿½t stealing your draft that damned stove would be kickin.


You're probably right about that too.  I'm going to shorten the horizontal connector by 12 inches tomorrow, that'll probably help too!


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## vvvv (Feb 26, 2010)

https://www.hearth.com/what/cat.html


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## VCBurner (Feb 26, 2010)

Green Energy said:
			
		

> Hey VC burner,
> 
> Congratulations on your new set up.  I burned a large VC cat stove for 18 years and was very happy with it.  Great all nighter stove.  You will get the hang of it and love it.



Thanks Green Energy, 
I have to do away with an extra piece of horizontal connector I hooked up.  With my old stove I could tuck it way up into the corner because it was a front and top loader.  With this cat I tried to extend the horizontal connector to push the stove away from the corner so I'd have more room to load logs from the side.  I think this may be affecting the draft and getting in the way of the stove cranking out more heat.  Otherwise this chimney has more than adequate draft.


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## trailrated (Feb 26, 2010)

VC- I take it the stove is in the basement? Is the whole basement unfinished and are you getting convection heat upstairs or is the stove just in an unfinished part?


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## VCBurner (Feb 26, 2010)

BLIMP said:
			
		

> https://www.hearth.com/what/cat.html



Thanks for the great link.  I have read a lot of that info but sure is nice to have it all in one place!  I put it in my favorites. ;-)


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## VCBurner (Feb 26, 2010)

trailrated said:
			
		

> VC- I take it the stove is in the basement? Is the whole basement unfinished and are you getting convection heat upstairs or is the stove just in an unfinished part?



Yes it's in an unfinished basement. 750 square feet of it are sucking up the heat. However, the stove is only about 12' from a stairwell that is centrally located in the house. The section of the main floor being heated is 1000 square feet. The thermostat, where I get the upstairs house temps, is located in the main hallway right across from the basement door. With my old stove I could get the temps from 67-75 in about an hour. The house is 74 degrees right now, so it's not like the stove isn't doing the job. I just want to learn how to crank out the heat for next years season, when we have negative teens for overnight low temps. It was very easy to crank out heat with my older stove. It only had one thermostatically controlled air intake and no secondary burn or cat just a large heat exchanger in the back. That ceramic coated steel heat exchanger put out some major heat!! This one will present a longer learning curve.


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## trailrated (Feb 26, 2010)

I ask because I'm debating what stove to put in my unfinished basement in order to get heat upstairs. I don't want the basement 90 degrees, and upstairs 65, know what I mean  I'm leaning towards a wood furnace


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## raybonz (Feb 27, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

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Cat temps vary depending on air setting, draft, wood moisture level, a good coal bed and type of wood.. 800-1000 degrees is not uncommon and with time you'll find the temp varies quite a bit.. Leave at least an inch of ash in the stove all the time as this seems to enhance stove operation and helps protect the bottom of the stove from extreme heat.. Basically anything from 700-1400 degrees is normal and with time you'll learn the ins and outs.. Cat stoves have a wide range of heat output and that's what I like about them.. I try to keep my flue pipe from 250-350 degrees as this keeps it clean and maintains a good draft... Thanx for the rebuilder info!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 27, 2010)

This thread will serve as a log for my experiences operating the Dutchwest.  Hopefully my learning curve will be facilitated by other's experience and the thread will assist other new owners out there.  

I took appart all the connectors and took down the Magic Heat.  I want to learn how to operate this stove without having to think that I may have something slowing it down.  Maybe after I master the stove's operation I'll re-install the MH, but I think not.  I called my seller yesterday and asked him to pick me up a blower.  He called me today and told me it's ready for me to pick it up.  I believe the blower will help extract the heat from between those convection walls and will spread it around faster.  With my old stove it was simple.  Push it and it will heat, fast, incredibly fast.  But the temps in the house were so up and down because it had a tiny firebox and shorter burn times.  I get now that this new stove will not be as fast.  However, it will keep the temps even with less wood and less frequent loading.  

The connection is as follows:
2' pipe off the top (purchased today to replace the Magic Heat,) into a 90 through the foundation and into my masonary tyle lined chimney.

I know from the previous stove that this chimmney has a great draft.  So I feel really good about this new installation I did today.  It looks so much better without the MH and is back to being quiet again.  

In addition to the 2' pipe I bought a 6" round brush for the connectors and a pipe crimper.  The stove is chugging alond down stairs it was 66 when I lit it 71 four  hours later.


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## raybonz (Feb 28, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> This thread will serve as a log for my experiences operating the Dutchwest.  Hopefully my learning curve will be facilitated by other's experience and the thread will assist other new owners out there.
> 
> I took appart all the connectors and took down the Magic Heat.  I want to learn how to operate this stove without having to think that I may have something slowing it down.  Maybe after I master the stove's operation I'll re-install the MH, but I think not.  I called my seller yesterday and asked him to pick me up a blower.  He called me today and told me it's ready for me to pick it up.  I believe the blower will help extract the heat from between those convection walls and will spread it around faster.  With my old stove it was simple.  Push it and it will heat, fast, incredibly fast.  But the temps in the house were so up and down because it had a tiny firebox and shorter burn times.  I get now that this new stove will not be as fast.  However, it will keep the temps even with less wood and less frequent loading.
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The blower makes a big difference on my stove and reduces the radiant heat substantially which I do not like.. I grafted a Dayton blower on this stove eons ago and it has worked well.. My stove is in the livingroom so I can't speak for heating from the cellar...

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2010)

> The blower makes a big difference on my stove and reduces the radiant heat substantially which I do not like.. I grafted a Dayton blower on this stove eons ago and it has worked well.. My stove is in the livingroom so I can’t speak for heating from the cellar…
> Ray


Thanks again Ray, 
I picked up the blower yesterdayand had it installed by 3:30pm.  It helps throw out the heat before it goes on to the second layer of cast iron.  It also helps keep the stove from reaching high temps too quickly, while throwing the heat out into the room.  In my case that is a bonus because we don't spend most of our time in the basement.  It also helped harvest the heat from the inner cast walls during an overnight burn last night.  Ten hours after the last load it was still blowing out good heat on the low setting.  I asked the stove guy to pick up a thermostat.  My problem is the wood.  The first burn I reached just over 1000 cat temp and the house was still 71 after an overnight burn.  That was the last of my seasoned wood.  I'm now working with less than perfectly seasoned maple, cherry, and some one year hickory.  I wish I had a moisture meter to see how wet the wood really is.  I'll try to work with it for the rest of the shoulder season.  It shouldn't be a problem, I still get the house up to 74 by the end of the day.  It's 71 right now and I'm not pushing it hard.  I learn more and more each day.  But with less than dry wood it'll be hard to achieve perfect results.  I've had the cat at 850 with less than perfect wood.  At 11:30am I put three small triangle splits on a red coal bed and let them catch really well.  Pipe temps were at 550 when I added three short pieces on top going north to south and another layer of three thin splits east-west on them.  At 12:15pm, pipe temps reached 560 and cat 375, when I dampered down.  The secondary open 2 turns and primary wide open.  12:36 now and I'll go check...   Ok, the cat was glowing at just over 700 and the pipe temps 360.  There were some good faint flames throughout most of the surfaces.  During the day do you leave your primary wide open or do you close it 1/2 way?  What do you do with yours to push it to its heating limits?  Do you even have to with a living room install?
Thaks for your help,
Chris


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## raybonz (Mar 1, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> > The blower makes a big difference on my stove and reduces the radiant heat substantially which I do not like.. I grafted a Dayton blower on this stove eons ago and it has worked well.. My stove is in the livingroom so I can’t speak for heating from the cellar…
> > Ray
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Hi Chris,

This is a link to your stove: http://www.stovesandspas.com/pdf/dutchwest.pdf .. My stove is much different than yours but I looked at your manual and understand what you're talking about.. The primary air is the air it takes to burn the wood and the secondary air is air you feed the cat during high burns to aid the cat in burning off the smoke when you're burning hotter.. If you have your stove choked down for a long overnight burn you can close off the secondary air so you'll get a longer burn time.. Read the manual as they are pretty a good starting point.. My stove only has dial dampers similar to your secondary cat air.. I also have a 3rd air source which will feed air under the fire for starting and/or coal burning.. I always leave mine closed and leave my ashbin full as my stove is happiest this way.. I bet your air system is 10X better and easier to learn than my setup.. Sounds like your stove is performing well for you!!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2010)

trailrated said:
			
		

> I ask because I'm debating what stove to put in my unfinished basement in order to get heat upstairs. I don't want the basement 90 degrees, and upstairs 65, know what I mean  I'm leaning towards a wood furnace



There are so many options out there , if you have the money to buy something brand a new furnace could work out to your advantage.  You just won't have a stove to look at!  I haven't mastered this stove and have less than perfectly seasoned wood to work with.  So, I really won't know how this stove really works until next heating season when the wood is good and dry.  There are a lot of happy Dutchwest owners out there.  It has done a good jod of keeping the temps from 68-74 in my house for the past week, even with semi seasoned wood.  It has used less wood than my old stove and less re-loads to keep it heating.  I've left it alone for twelve hours before the next re-load.  No need for matches, burning 24/7!  I have a friend who has an outdoor wood furnace, he loves it.  I just helped him get rid of his hot air/oil set up.  He put in radient heating in the floors.  It is the best heat I'v ever seen!  If I had to put in an heating system, that would be it.  He spent $1,800 on radient pex pipe, the pump and manifolds.  That's all it took to heat his 
800 ft ²  single story ranch.  He heats his house and hot water by the wood furnace:
http://www.centralboiler.com/  The beauty of these is you never have to worry about a chimney fire or smoke in the house.  They also have new EPA models that release very little emissions to keep the neighbors happy. He has used about six cords so far this season. He got six cords for $900 last spring, in the form of green hardwoods, mostly oak.  Added to the rest of his scrounged supply he should still have a couple cords left at the end of the season.  
  I'm sure you could heat just as well with an add on indoor furnace.  It would probably be cheaper and easier to do. Good luck!
Chris


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2010)

Thaks Ray,


> raybonzPosted: 01 March 2010 01:18 PM


I've had the manual for a couple of months now and have read the thing from front to back a few times.  I did help a lot.  I got off to a good start thanks to the information in it.  Thanks for looking up the manual, I forgot that yours had different air controls.  





> Sounds like your stove is performing well for you!!
> Ray


It has kept the house from 67-74 for the past 6 days even with the semi seasoned wood.  I can't wait to burn next season with dry wood.  It's going to be a long Summer :lol: !  My wife asked me what I'm gonna do with my self once I don't have a fire to play with.  I kindly reminded her of the brand new chain saw I bought to cut firewood, and the one acre of grass upon which my riding mower will be running for at least 5 months.  Plus we go camping every other weekend from the last week in May and ending with the Fall camping trip in October.  I'll have plenty to keep my mind and body occupied!  
But I can't wait till next heating season.  I'll have three stoves to play with.  My old Surdiac will go in to the unheated breezeway that will become a dinning room this Spring.  Take care Ray,

Chris


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## FireWalker (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey VC,

Get a face cord of your semi-seasoned wood down in that heated dry basement of yours to dry. Concrete will suck a lot of moisture out in no time. Stack a long low row against your concrete wall/floor on either side of your stove (remember your clearance specs). Burn a armload and replace with armload from outdoors. This time next week you will have a system going, bring down more than you use for a while and work from the wood closest to the stove.


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## imacheezhead (Mar 1, 2010)

> Just got finished with the break in and after a final cool off I established a bed of coals with the damper open.  When the cat temp reached 400, I closed the damper and the primary down almost all the way.  Opened the secondary 1 1/2 turns and the thing seemed to work.  Flames were dancing.  The cat temp kept rising slowly.  Firebox temp at 400-500.  I loaded up the firebox with six good size splits on top of the deep coal bed and let the fire re-establish itself.  A few minutes later the cat was at about 525 and firebox temp 500.  I closed the damper again to engage the cat.  I hope I’m doing the right thing.  We’ll see how things look in the morning.  Primary is shut almost all the way and secondary open 1 turn.  Please feel free to comment if you have any input.  Thanks and good night.



I didn't read this entire thread, but my Consolidated Dutchwest cat gets up to 1200deg. routinely when burning dry Oak.  I've had a blower installed on this stove for years and I have it controlled by an old furnace limit switch.  No point running the blower on a cool stove.  How old is the cat on your stove??  I also wanted to mention that only the rear and top of the stove are double walled.  someone also mentioned that you can't bring water to a rolling boil. Yes you can if the pot is placed on top of the hot plate over the cat.  You also said "the flames were dancing".  When the air dampers are all closed the wood should just smolder and you may see some LAZY flames.  "Dancing" flames to me sounds like too much air getting in and that may be the cause of the cat running somewhat cool.

As far as the Magic Heat is concerned.  I have one on my stove and it doesn't seem to be creating any problems and it throws out tons of heat, WHEN IT RUNS!  The idea of this unit is not to bring the temperatures down to a point where it creates problems. That's why it runs on a thermostat.  Some people may run it continuously and that would be a problem!  I have a thermometer in one of the MH tubes and it usually turns on around 350 deg. and shuts off around 150 - 200 deg.  This unit gets rave reviews!  Check out this link. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331512_200331512

Jim


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## BrowningBAR (Mar 2, 2010)

imacheezhead said:
			
		

> I didn't read this entire thread, but my Consolidated Dutchwest cat gets up to *1200deg*. routinely when burning dry Oak.



Please tell me that isn't a surface temp.


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## raybonz (Mar 2, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> imacheezhead said:
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Definately is the cat temp which would be normal...

Ray


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## Todd (Mar 2, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> imacheezhead said:
> 
> 
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No, the Dutchwest stoves come with a cat thermometer and 1200 is normal and anything over 1600 continuously can damage the stove.


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## Highlandwelder (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey VC!

Sounds like you are getting the hang of your VCDW.  I utilize a magnetic thermometer placed on the door(as someone else, and the manual recommend), and it works out well for me.  My cat temps usually run 1100F +/ 150F, and door temps around 450F.  The only time I have to adjust the secondary(cat) draft is when I run smaller loads or less than perfect wood.  I run a non VC variable speeed blower on my stove and it really pulls the heat off of it. 

Enjoy your VCDW, I know we do!


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## VCBurner (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey Jim, 
I'm glad you posted.  Good to see another Magic Heat user with a Dutchwest.  Looks familiar.  I disconected mine a few days ago.  I wanted to learn how to operate the stove with optimum conditions.  Some people say it slows down the draft and I wanted to learn the stove without always thinking there was something slowing it down.  The first night with the stove I had the cat at 1000 a half an hour after starting the fire.  That day I burned my last bucket of dry wood and I haven't been able to duplicate those temps with the semi-seasoned wood.  You're right about the MH throwing out a ton of heat, though.  I may find it necessary to hook it back up when we hit the coldest part of next years heating season.  But I want to master the stove in its purest condition.  However, I bought a blower for it, to help spread the heat and I'm getting a thermostat for it within the next couple of days. 


> When the air dampers are all closed the wood should just smolder and you may see some LAZY flames.  “Dancing” flames to me sounds like too much air getting in and that may be the cause of the cat running somewhat cool.


I understand that our stove's air controls are somewhat different.  But I understand your theory.  Too much air would cause the cat to run at lower temps.  Looking back at the post you quoted, I realize that I had the primary almost all the way closed.  I've been leaving the air almost all the way open.  The owner's manual says the intensity of the fire is controlled by the primary air intake.  But my best cat temp was achieved with the primary closed almost all the way.  I'll have to try that on the next load, it's almost that time.  By the way, when I said dancing flames I meant ghost flames.  But now I know that faint flames are OK.  I have the cat bright red during every burn cycle, so I'm not worried about the cat being bad yet.  
Thanks again Jim

Now, the most important part of this post, the questions:
After reloading in the morning, do you have your primary air intake shut almost all the way?  
What's the best way to get the most heat?  Does cat temp dictate top heat out put?  If so it would seem I'm not reaching it's capacity because of the semi seasoned wood. With my old stove it was easy, burn it as hot as you can without overfireing.  This is a CAT of a different color.  I want to get the most out of it while remaining efficient and I don't quite understand how to achieve that yet.  All I know is I need some really dry wood.  I'm not cold by any means, it's 76 in here and the Dutchwest is my only source of heat.  I just want to master this stove.


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## VCBurner (Mar 2, 2010)

> Get a face cord of your semi-seasoned wood down in that heated dry basement of yours to dry.


I remembered our first conversations we had about dry wood and the Dutchwest and I just knew that's what you would say.  I read your mind, Firewalker.  It looks like this, minus the heat heat reclaimer, until further notice.


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## Highlandwelder (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey VC!  Here are my answers to your questions.  Not gospel by any means, but it works for me.

After reloading in the morning, do you have your primary air intake shut almost all the way? 

After a morning reload, we leave the by-pass open, and run the primary air so that you are getting a good burn (lots of flames, and building the heat back up in the stove, which again we like to see over 375F to 425F on the door before closing the by-pass) At this point primary air is probably around 1/2.

What’s the best way to get the most heat? 

Good bed of coals, over 400F on door, primary around 1/2 and secondary about 1 and 1/2 turns.  If outside temp is over 32F and little wind this will push stove room to 84F and fartherest away to 74F.  

 Does cat temp dictate top heat out put? 

I view cat temps as an indicator of efficency more than top heat output, although they kinda go hand in hand!   My goal is no smoke out the chimney, and having no chimney build-up.  

If so it would seem I’m not reaching it’s capacity because of the semi seasoned wood. 

I would reload more often to try to limit the "dampening" effect of a large semi-seasoned reload. 

With my old stove it was easy, burn it as hot as you can without overfireing.  This is a CAT of a different color.  I want to get the most out of it while remaining efficient and I don’t quite understand how to achieve that yet.  All I know is I need some really dry wood.  I’m not cold by any means, it’s 76 in here and the 

Dutchwest is my only source of heat.    Same here.  I love "Energy Independence"! 

I just want to master this stove.  

Same here, and so far, I think we have it under control.  My gas bill was $250 less this past month than it was a year ago.  That makes me  and  and !!
These stoves are not a chuck-a-stick-in model by any means, but I think can work well once they are understood!


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## Highlandwelder (Mar 2, 2010)

Ok. I think I have this figured out.  The first photo is our install, and the second is a close up showing a start-up after cleaning.  I was a non-believer in the top-down starting method until I tried it.  Now I am a convert!


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## VCBurner (Mar 2, 2010)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> imacheezhead said:
> 
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Hi BrowningBar, good tohear from you again.
The manual on these things says that the catalysts reduce the temps at which secondary combustion can start from 1000-1200 °F  to 500-600 °F ,increasing efficiency, and reducing creosote and emissions.  It also states that normal catalytic temperatures range from 600-1400 °F.  The cat temp can be read from the probe thermometer  that comes on top of the stove, as Todd said.  The normal range of firebox temps is 400-650 °F which can be measured from the side loading door.


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## raybonz (Mar 2, 2010)

Highlandwelder said:
			
		

> Ok. I think I have this figured out.  The first photo is our install, and the second is a close up showing a start-up after cleaning.  I was a non-believer in the top-down starting method until I tried it.  Now I am a convert!



Great looking stove enjoy! That would be the extra large convection I think.. Huge firebox and very efficient too! I heat 1632 sq. ft. with the large convection..

Enjoy!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 2, 2010)

> Hey VC!  Here are my answers to your questions.  Not gospel by any means, but it works for me.


Thank you for your answers Highlandwelder. 
I could use as much input as possible from all the experienced Dutchwest operators.  I've been meaning to get another thermometer for the door to go along with the one on the pipe.  Love the pics of your stove and hearth.  It looks beautiful. You should enter your pics in the official show off your hearth thread and compete for some Supercedars. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/53428/
 I really enjoy the look of this stove. So much so that I may try to convince my wife that we should have it in the living room. 
So take care and have a good night.  Thanks again, I'll try your techniques.


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## imacheezhead (Mar 2, 2010)

> After reloading in the morning, do you have your primary air intake shut almost all the way?
> What’s the best way to get the most heat?  Does cat temp dictate top heat out put?  If so it would seem I’m not reaching it’s capacity because of the semi seasoned wood. With my old stove it was easy, burn it as hot as you can without overfireing.  This is a CAT of a different color.  I want to get the most out of it while remaining efficient and I don’t quite understand how to achieve that yet.  All I know is I need some really dry wood.  I’m not cold by any means, it’s 76 in here and the Dutchwest is my only source of heat.  I just want to master this stove.



Thanks for the acknowledgment VC,

That really is a great looking stove and if I had my druthers back in 1988 I would have opted for the large VCDW like you have!  I find it curious that your stove doesn't have an air damper on the ash door like mine does.  Is it somewhere else??

I agree with most everything Highlandwelder said.  I don't think you will ever find 2 people that will operate their stoves the same way.  I like to operate my stove with all air intakes, (except the cat air intake, which stays open permanently about 1/4"), closed tight, but only *after* I'm sure that the cat is up to temperature!  The stove runs like this for 5-6 hours without doing anything to it and I use the cat temperature to tell me if I need to reload.  I really keep a close watch on that cat temperature and if it drops below 500° after reloading, I will open the ash door  to get the fire going again.  I may then leave the door's air intake open a little until I see the cat temp. over 600° at which time I close everything up tight again.  Our bedroom is on the 2nd floor and the stove is on the 1st and I can tell if it's working okay by hearing the Magic Heat Reclaimer cycle on & off.

Jim


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## VCBurner (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for the response Jim,
Please keep talking, I'm all ears!


> I find it curious that your stove doesn’t have an air damper on the ash door like mine does.  Is it somewhere else??


There are only two air controls.  I guess they wanted to simplify the operation when they revamped the DW's.  The primary is one control that operates two doors in opposite sides of the lower front. The secondary cat air screw type feed is over the side loading door.  I wish the stove had some type of air intake circulation in the back.  Often times it seems as if the wood in the back is not really adding much to the heating.  


> I like to operate my stove with all air intakes, (except the cat air intake, which stays open permanently about 1/4”), closed tight, but only after I’m sure that the cat is up to temperature!


Does this mean you don't close the bypass damper untill the cat temp is up to 500?

The manual is very vague as far as when to close the bypass.  The following is a simplified version of the manual's directions on how to start a fire:

They say you need to build a live coal bed. Then after a lively fire has been established (approximately 30 minutes) close the stove damper.(Question 1)  Close the primary air control- med. to low.  Fire volume will diminish, but the stove will continue to warm up.  Maintain control of the fire using the primary air control.  Reduce the setting for a smaller fire, increase for a hotter, more intense fire.  The final step is to open the catalyst air control.(Question 2)

Questions:
(1) What should the cat temperature be when the damper is closed?
(2) How long between dampering down and openning the catalyst air control?



> I really keep a close watch on that cat temperature and if it drops below 500° after reloading, I will open the ash door to get the fire going again.  I may then leave the door’s air intake open a little until I see the cat temp. over 600° at which time I close everything up tight again.


If the cat drops below 500, you open the ash door air intake with the damper still shut?  

Thank you for all the input, every little bit helps.


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## imacheezhead (Mar 3, 2010)

Hi VC



> Does this mean you don’t close the bypass damper untill the cat temp is up to 500?



I usually run the stove wide open with the ash door open for a minute or so after reloading and then I'll close the bypass damper and let the cat get up to at least 500° before I close the door again.  Sometimes if it's stubborn I'll open the ash bin damper about a  1/4" or so until I'm sure the cat has attained "light off" at which time I close off all primary air supplies.  If I see the cat temperature climb then I know I'm good to go and I can walk away from it.



> Questions:
> (1) What should the cat temperature be when the damper is closed?
> (2) How long between dampering down and openning the catalyst air control?



(1) As I said previously I try for 500° or better.
(2) I always leave the cat damper open about 1/4".  Maybe I'm wrong but I can't see the reason for doing anything with it.  The cat needs air in order for it to be able to burn off the gasses, so why would I want to close it?



> If the cat drops below 500, you open the ash door air intake with the damper still shut?



If the cat temp. drops below 500° after reloading I will open the ash door with the bypass damper closed to get the fire up and running again.  Sometimes I'll have to shake down the ashes to allow air to get in.  Actually the only time I open the bypass is when I'm reloading or trying to bring back a weak fire.  Once I hear the flames roar I close the bypass so all the heat will be directed through the cat.

I think you said that you are putting a blower on your stove so this may be irrelevant.  I noticed from your pictures that you still have the small cast iron plates on the bottom 2 corners on either side of the front door.  When you run this stove without a blower those 2 plates should be removed and 2 screen inserts installed in place of them in order to allow air to circulate between the stove walls and out the top vents.  My stove is a smaller version of yours but I believe they are the same in this regard.    

Hope this helps,
Jim


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## raybonz (Mar 4, 2010)

imacheezhead said:
			
		

> Hi VC
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jim VC's stove and ours are the same size, these are both large convection stoves with the same dimensions.. Pretty sure the sizes offered are small, large and extra large.. The 264ccl and 2461 are just generations apart.. Both these stoves can take a 22" log... I think the air system would be easier to learn and control on the 2461 though..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 4, 2010)

> If the cat temp. drops below 500° after reloading I will open the ash door with the bypass damper closed to get the fire up and running again.  Sometimes I’ll have to shake down the ashes to allow air to get in.  Actually the only time I open the bypass is when I’m reloading or trying to bring back a weak fire.  Once I hear the flames roar I close the bypass so all the heat will be directed through the cat.
> Hope this helps,
> Jim



Jim, thank you,
You're the only guy who has told me this procedure and I've never tried it.  But it makes sence.  I'll have to try it.  It may not work with my semi seasoned wood, but it's worth a shot.  The true test will be next year, when the wood is ready to give off some real BTU's.  My other concearn is that I have a lazy cat.  But I don't think that is the case because it reached over 1000 with my last load of really seasoned wood.  If I can't reach higher cat temps with your technique, either now or next year after the wood has dried, I would suspect the cat is lazy.  I know it's not a draft issue, although it is in a basement and shares the air supply with the furnace and the drier and that has caused some back puffs when they are running.  The furnace only turns on to heat the hot water which is quite often with a family of six.  



> How old is the cat on your stove??


I'm not sure.  The guy who rebuilt it only told me that he doesn't think it was the factory original.  He also said it should last me at least a couple of years.  But, these statements are kind of vague and I may very well need one next year.  It's too late in the season and I've spent too much money on wood heating already for this year.  I'll be prepared to buy one next fall/winter if necessary.    Besides the weather is tapering off now and I can ride it out for the next few weeks.  It's 75 in here right now.  
Thank you once more Jim.


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## VCBurner (Mar 5, 2010)

> Jim VC’s stove and ours are the same size, these are both large convection stoves with the same dimensions.. Pretty sure the sizes offered are small, large and extra large.. The 264ccl and 2461 are just generations apart.. Both these stoves can take a 22” log… I think the air system would be easier to learn and control on the 2461 though..
> Ray


Hello again *Ray* and *Jim*,
Ray is right about the stove sizes.  The extra large Highlandwelder owns is model 2462.  They accept 25" logs, have 12 hour burn, heat up to 2,400ft. and put out 55,000BTU's.  The guy who sold me mine had one for a couple more bens.  I wanted to buy it, but my flue is 6" and I would have had to spend some more $ to accomodate an 8" pipe.  I think it would have been better suited for a basement install. 

 As far as the 2461 being easier to learn, it probably would be, if I had properly seasoned wood.  

The good news is, I've been able to get a hot cat temp of over 1000!  It was tough, with semi seasoned wood!  But again I knew I was going to need dry wood when I purchased this stove.  I've now used Jim's open ash door technique, and it works well for getting cat temps up faster while in damper down mode.  I wish they didn't do away with the ash door air intake, though.    



> I think you said that you are putting a blower on your stove so this may be irrelevant.  I noticed from your pictures that you still have the small cast iron plates on the bottom 2 corners on either side of the front door.  When you run this stove without a blower those 2 plates should be removed and 2 screen inserts installed in place of them in order to allow air to circulate between the stove walls and out the top vents.


Jim, the air inlets are now under the stove.  When you purchase the blower, it comes with the cast iron plates to close off the natural convection chaimber.  

The last and final point I want to make on this post, is about the backpuffing.  Which I figured was worth mentioning, since it seems to be a common occurrence, especially this time of the year.  However, I must say, this condition doesn't seem to be unique to the Dutchwests, as much as some people may say it is.  I'm new with this stove, but it's been really easy to control the condition by giving the stove more catalytic air and primary air during the burn cycle.  Avoid large loads with lazy smoldering fires.  The manual states youm should always have lively, dancing flames in the firebox.  Again, my inexperience with new EPA stoves, could mean that ignorance is bliss.  However, the backpuffing is not a big issue for me, with this stove.  I guess it could be, with inadequate draft.  

I hope this thread may help someone else.  Thank you all again for helping me learn how to operate my first EPA stove!


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## VCBurner (Mar 29, 2010)

From what I've been reading it sounds like most of us got spoiled by a little early warm up!  We never let the fire go out all weekend.  24/7 since Friday.  Of course, I'm still burning green wood.  I knew I should have processed more wood last year.  But those 6 cords looked so imposing for a first time 24/7 wood heating rookie!  I also wasted a lot of wood learning how to burn wood in two older stoves. In the past year I've learned how to operate three stoves.  That was a lot to take on for a first time wood burner.  I'm still experimenting with the Dutchwest.  How to get more heat with different types of wood and stacking the firebox in different ways.  I will have gone through an entire cart of wood from Friday night (had both stoves going that night) to probably Monday night or Tuesday morning.  That's a lot of wood in 3.5 days!!  About 17 cubic feet of maple, oak and cherry.  I'm going through a ton of wood to heat the house in such mild weather.  That's because I have to wait a long time to damper down due to how green the wood is.  With dry wood, I'd probably be using half the amount of fuel.  I'm finally beginning to understand the cat.  The whole point is to squeeze heat out of the wood that is burning at lower intensity than a non epa stove would.  I can't squeeze heat out of green wood because by the time the wood has actually caught enough to engage the cat the wood is burned to a crisp.  I also don't want to damage the cat by engaging it too early with the green wood.


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## raybonz (Mar 29, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> From what I've been reading it sounds like most of us got spoiled by a little early warm up!  We never let the fire go out all weekend.  24/7 since Friday.  Of course, I'm still burning green wood.  I knew I should have processed more wood last year.  But those 6 cords looked so imposing for a first time 24/7 wood heating rookie!  I also wasted a lot of wood learning how to burn wood in two older stoves. In the past year I've learned how to operate three stoves.  That was a lot to take on for a first time wood burner.  I'm still experimenting with the Dutchwest.  How to get more heat with different types of wood and stacking the firebox in different ways.  I will have gone through an entire cart of wood from Friday night (had both stoves going that night) to probably Monday night or Tuesday morning.  That's a lot of wood in 3.5 days!!  About 17 cubic feet of maple, oak and cherry.  I'm going through a ton of wood to heat the house in such mild weather.  That's because I have to wait a long time to damper down due to how green the wood is.  With dry wood, I'd probably be using half the amount of fuel.  I'm finally beginning to understand the cat.  The whole point is to squeeze heat out of the wood that is burning at lower intensity than a non epa stove would.  I can't squeeze heat out of green wood because by the time the wood has actually caught enough to engage the cat the wood is burned to a crisp.  I also don't want to damage the cat by engaging it too early with the green wood.



Hang in there Chris next year it will be better however I feel you would use much less wood if your stove was in your livingroom instead of the basement.. The downside is a cold basement but I don't live there so not a problem.. Wet wood sucks and I have used some that is less than dry lately too not to mention the tarry mess is leaves inside the stove too..Do you have a stove in your livingroom too? If you can get the stove out of the cellar you'll use much less wood and have a warmer house too..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 29, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
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Hey Ray, how's it going?
I would love to have a decent stove in the livingroom.  However, the wife and I have agreed that a big stove in there would take up too much space.  The other thing is I'm afraid the heat would not circulate as well due to the location of the livingroom.  I know this because we do have a stove in the fireplace now.  Although, it's an antique, it can put out some good heat but it doesn't come out of the livingroom as well as the heat in the basement travels to the rest of the house.  Even with fans blowing the heat around and cooler air toward the stove..  We also don't like the fan thing.  I like the blower in the basement stove but can't stand having fans everywhere!  We have registers cut out throughout the house and the air circulates really well out of the basement.  I do understand the thought behind having the main heater in a main living space.  Just don't think it would work for our lay out.  The livingroom would be way too hot and the rest of the house would be cooler than it is now.  I do want to get a newer, small stove for the livingroom.  Something like a Jotul F100 or a small steel stove with a good size fireview!  But, the box stove in there now works fine to get the chill out of the livingroom when the weather reaches single digits.


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## raybonz (Mar 29, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
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I hear ya on the fan thing. Here I have a blower on the stove and that's all the annoyance I can handle.. The ceiling fan is quiet and runs most of the time but u never notice it unless u you look at it.. I don't know your house layout but you would know what works best.. Just thinking out loud..

 Aside from that my wood guy from last year appears to be ripping me off and I am about ready to take it to the courts if I do not get the wood I paid for soon.. It's a very sore subject for me as I trusted this guy seeing I bought 3 cords from him last year and also had landscaping work done by him.. I paid by check for 3 cords and he said he would bring it all the same day so leave a check.. I did as asked and he dropped 1/2 cord and I haven't seen him since That was 3 weeks ago!! My middle daughter is in college and she just studied basic law and said this would be a breach of contract and with that dollar amount no paperwork is needed.. If he doesn't act soon I will press charges with my family as witnesses.. I am SO frustrated about this!!

Ray


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## imacheezhead (Mar 29, 2010)

> I’m finally beginning to understand the cat.  The whole point is to squeeze heat out of the wood that is burning at lower intensity than a non epa stove would.  I can’t squeeze heat out of green wood because by the time the wood has actually caught enough to engage the cat the wood is burned to a crisp.  I also don’t want to damage the cat by engaging it too early with the green wood.



I'm going to have to admit to having several chimney fires that I am aware of and maybe some that occurred without my knowledge even though I clean the chimney each Fall. I've never seen sparks or flames shooting out of the chimney but it produces copious amounts of acrid smoke and a roaring sound.  When this happens I close off all the air dampers to at least hopefully slow down the burn.  The fires usually last about 20 minutes or so and die down almost as fast as they start.  Why this happens mystifies me.  The crazy thing is that the chimney is clean except for maybe 3 feet above where the flue pipe enters the stack.  The cat is supposed to clean the smoke and keep creosote deposits in the chimney to a minimum.  Creosote in the stove itself is something I would consider normal for an airtight because by their very nature they burn dirty and the cat gets its fuel from the dirty fire's smoke.  If a stove is clean inside, that tells me that the fire is getting too much air and the cat is heating up not through catalytic action like its supposed to but rather by the flames themselves.  When I close off all the air dampers once I achieve 500° or better and I see the cat temperature climb dramatically I know that the cat is doing it's job rather than just being heated by a hot fire.  Another good indicator to me is a load of splits that keeps producing heat for 8 hours or more.  If air dampers are left open even a little or if the stove's joints leak in air, the load will not last nearly as long and you will burn a lot more wood.

The reason I'm saying all this is because to me burning all that green wood seems like a recipe for a dirty chimney and the potential for a chimney fire.  Please be sure to check it out and clean it.

Jim


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## VCBurner (Mar 31, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ray, I hope you can get it ironed out before going to court.  Maybe he'll bring it to you soon!  Good luck.


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## VCBurner (Mar 31, 2010)

imacheezhead said:
			
		

> > I’m finally beginning to understand the cat.  The whole point is to squeeze heat out of the wood that is burning at lower intensity than a non epa stove would.  I can’t squeeze heat out of green wood because by the time the wood has actually caught enough to engage the cat the wood is burned to a crisp.  I also don’t want to damage the cat by engaging it too early with the green wood.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Jim, 
I've been thinking of that very subject every time I light a match to the green wood!  I wonder how much build up I'll have when I clean up in a month or two.  I notice with this stove it's easier to get really hot pipe temps than my old stove.  The old stove had a large heat exchanger where the smoke would twirl around before going to the pipe.  With the DW it goes right up the connector unless I have the damper down.  I even noticed some pipe discoloration.  A sign of an overfire.  I never got this with the older stove.  This is probably because I have to let the wood burn much longer before dampering down with the green wood.  I've had pipe skin temps up to 800, but not for long.  When that happens I just damper down and the temps go down within seconds.  Not good I know!  

I have wasted a lot of heat without the MH connected to the pipes.  I may instal it before the end of the burning season.  It really helps to harvest the heat and heats the house with less wood cunsumption.


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## Don2222 (Oct 17, 2010)

Hello

I have had a FA288CCL for 19 years. I purchased it at fireplace village in Bedford NH. Made by Vermont Castings in Randolf VT it was called the extra large Consolidated Dutchwest Federal Design Coal/Wood stove with EPA approved Catalytic Combuster. They still make them new!

See 20 year odl Lit below.

If anyone wants a copy of this lit, I can email the PDF.


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## Bob in AR (Nov 13, 2010)

Have found this thread informative, I am new operator of an old Dutchwest 2183.  Have found the manual online, as well as the service manual courtesy of a kind soul who posted to the wiki here.  Curious to know how your cat is working for you this fall, any quick tips on operation.  Thanks for posting!


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## VCBurner (Nov 13, 2010)

Bob in AR said:
			
		

> Have found this thread informative, I am new operator of an old Dutchwest 2183.  Have found the manual online, as well as the service manual courtesy of a kind soul who posted to the wiki here.  Curious to know how your cat is working for you this fall, any quick tips on operation.  Thanks for posting!


I have found that loading the first load with thinner pieces of wood helps.  Or if you load it up in the morning and leave the house like I do put the smaller pieces on the bottom followed by some larger on top.  I bought my 2461 rebuilt.  The cat was not new so I don't know how old it is, however I was told that the cat still looked good and would last me around two seasons.  The guy who rebuilt it was really thorough about taking all the stoves appart piece by piece.  I was in his basement shop and saw some of the stoves he was working on when I bought the Dutchwest.  They were entirely taken appart and resealed with new cement at every seam and all new gaskets, as well as sandblasted inside and out and repainted.  My stove looked brand new when I bought it.  But the cat's age is unknown.  However it seems to work well.  I have experimented with engaging the cat earlier to see if it would reach light off temps.  I've engaged the cat with temps as low as 200's and it has reached over 1000 cat temps with no problem.  The trick is to make sure 90% of the wood is well lit.  This sometimes takes a good 1/2 hour from a fresh started fire.  I've also tried starting a reverse fire with some big pieces at the bottom and kindling on top.  This works well and seems to last longer, but takes longer to reach full burn.  Good luck with the new stove Bob.  I hope this response has been helpfull.

Chris


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## tribe683 (Nov 13, 2010)

Thanks for all the posts and tips on this stove. I recently purchased and installed a new VC Dutchwest 2461. It has been installed for about a week and a half. I only burned in the stove for 3 days and that was late last week. Temps. in the mid to upper 70's lately have diminished the need for any heat what-so-ever, so I am anxious to get back to it. Although it is nice having a comfortably warm house with no heating expenses. I believe it is supposed to cool down a little for the next week.

I still have a lot of learning to do and just wanted to let you guys know that you have helped with a lot of my questions, so keep posting if you find something that really works well for you with this stove.


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## Bob in AR (Nov 14, 2010)

Yes, very helpful Chris.  Can you pass on the name of the rebuilder, he may be a source for parts....


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## johnstra (Nov 14, 2010)

Hey Chris - I see '12 lb. maul called "Big Red"' in your signature.  Does it have a triangle head and a steel handle?  That's what I use.
-john


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## VCBurner (Nov 28, 2010)

Bob in AR said:
			
		

> Yes, very helpful Chris.  Can you pass on the name of the rebuilder, he may be a source for parts....


Hey Bob, His name is Daryl from Fitchburg, MA.  I have misplaced his number and can't find him on CL anymore.  Maybe he is looking for some stoves to rebuild before he posts some adds.  I've got to try and find his number because I could use a couple of things too.  I need some short legs and a thermostat for the blower.  I'll post a PM if I can get a hold of him.


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## VCBurner (Nov 28, 2010)

johnstra said:
			
		

> Hey Chris - I see '12 lb. maul called "Big Red"' in your signature.  Does it have a triangle head and a steel handle?  That's what I use.
> -john


Yes Sir!  You can see for yourself on post #52 in a picture I took of the wood stack in the basement with it sitting right there.  Sorry it took me so long to respond.  I split some wood with it before Thanksgiving (about a cord.)  I have a couple more cords to split starting tomorrow!  I just took a file to it the other day and it makes a world of difference splitting with a sharp edge!!


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## raybonz (Nov 28, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Bob in AR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Chris,
They still make your stove so getting parts should be easy at a stove dealer... If I upgrade this one I am considering what you have.. How do you like it so far?

Ray


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2010)

raybonz said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Ray,
The main reason why I would try to get parts through him is he only charges me what they pay for cost.  But it's a big plus for this stove that it's currently in production.  It was one of the reasons why I bought it, for the ease of buying parts if needed.  I can't say that I'm not curious about those secondary burn stoves but for the price I would certainly consider this stove if I was looking for a new one.  This stove is pretty easy to operate.  I haven't seen the backpuffing but twice last winter.  I've yet to truly test it in the coldest part of the winter to see if it will heat the entire house.  My guess is that it will, judging by its performance on some of the colder nights we've had so far.


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## certified106 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ray[/quote]
Hey Ray,
The main reason why I would try to get parts through him is he only charges me what they pay for cost.  But it's a big plus for this stove that it's currently in production.  It was one of the reasons why I bought it, for the ease of buying parts if needed.  I can't say that I'm not curious about those secondary burn stoves but for the price I would certainly consider this stove if I was looking for a new one.  This stove is pretty easy to operate.  I haven't seen the backpuffing but twice last winter.  I've yet to truly test it in the coldest part of the winter to see if it will heat the entire house.  My guess is that it will, judging by its performance on some of the colder nights we've had so far.[/quote]




I'm always slightly intrigued with all the talk I hear about the VC Dutchwest backpuffing.....My family has three of these stoves and I have been around them since I was 5 but I have yet to see one backpuff. Have you figured out what makes yours do that? If mine was back puffing my wife would make me take it out of our house quicker than you can imagine as her allergys really act up if there is smoke in the house. As far as heating the house I have a 2200 sq ft house and have no problems with the stove keeping up, in fact until it gets down in the teens I keep it shut down other than when I'm reloading between burn cycles. my stove will put off some serious heat when you really crank it up unfortunately I don't get to do it as much as I would like or our first floor would be at 85° really quick.


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## VCBurner (Nov 29, 2010)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Ray


Hey Ray,
The main reason why I would try to get parts through him is he only charges me what they pay for cost.  But it's a big plus for this stove that it's currently in production.  It was one of the reasons why I bought it, for the ease of buying parts if needed.  I can't say that I'm not curious about those secondary burn stoves but for the price I would certainly consider this stove if I was looking for a new one.  This stove is pretty easy to operate.  I haven't seen the backpuffing but twice last winter.  I've yet to truly test it in the coldest part of the winter to see if it will heat the entire house.  My guess is that it will, judging by its performance on some of the colder nights we've had so far.[/quote]




I'm always slightly intrigued with all the talk I hear about the VC Dutchwest backpuffing.....My family has three of these stoves and I have been around them since I was 5 but I have yet to see one backpuff. Have you figured out what makes yours do that? If mine was back puffing my wife would make me take it out of our house quicker than you can imagine as her allergys really act up if there is smoke in the house. As far as heating the house I have a 2200 sq ft house and have no problems with the stove keeping up, in fact until it gets down in the teens I keep it shut down other than when I'm reloading between burn cycles. my stove will put off some serious heat when you really crank it up unfortunately I don't get to do it as much as I would like or our first floor would be at 85° really quick.[/quote]

I only saw it happen twice and it was in the end of the burning season last year.  I think it was because I tried to engage the cat before the fire was established or I may have been trying to shut the air intake down too much.  I've heard of other stoves such as the Woodstock backpuffing as well and it's usually late in the season when draft becomes strange due to warmer air outside.  I haven't had it happen since last season.


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## raybonz (Nov 29, 2010)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> certified106 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...






I'm always slightly intrigued with all the talk I hear about the VC Dutchwest backpuffing.....My family has three of these stoves and I have been around them since I was 5 but I have yet to see one backpuff. Have you figured out what makes yours do that? If mine was back puffing my wife would make me take it out of our house quicker than you can imagine as her allergys really act up if there is smoke in the house. As far as heating the house I have a 2200 sq ft house and have no problems with the stove keeping up, in fact until it gets down in the teens I keep it shut down other than when I'm reloading between burn cycles. my stove will put off some serious heat when you really crank it up unfortunately I don't get to do it as much as I would like or our first floor would be at 85° really quick.[/quote]

I only saw it happen twice and it was in the end of the burning season last year.  I think it was because I tried to engage the cat before the fire was established or I may have been trying to shut the air intake down too much.  I've heard of other stoves such as the Woodstock backpuffing as well and it's usually late in the season when draft becomes strange due to warmer air outside.  I haven't had it happen since last season.[/quote]

I used to have the backpuff problem and it is rare that it has happened the past few years and I attribute that to burning seasoned wood plus a couple other odd reasons.. If you try to burn a load of pallet boards for instance they all burn at once pretty much and that leads to trouble however I haven't burned pallet wood in years.. A poor draft can lead to back puffs too.. I am pretty sure all stoves are capable of backpuffing under certain conditions.. A good draft  and quality firewood should go a long ways to alleviate this problem.. 

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello everyone, 

I hope you're having a good new year so far. 

I figured I'd post on this thread because it has served as a diary of sorts. A lot has happened since the last post. I put the Dutchwest in the livingroom fireplace on top of new short legs that were locally purchased at The Stove Place in Worcester. My inlaws bought me the legs for Christmas, but ended up letting me have them early so I could install them before the Holidays. The stove has been there since November 30th, so I figured posting some conclusions would be in order. 

I have to mention the install, because this greatly affects how stoves function. It is rear vented into a 90 degree elbow that goes into a block off plate into the masonary fireplace. The flue is still in there and is permanently open. There is no stainless steel liner in the clay lined chimney. 

My main conclusion is that I love having the heat upstairs rather than heating from the unfinished basement. There are also some drawbacks. The livingroom is not open to the rest of the house so spreading the heat is quite difficult. We have a fan in the furthest bedroom doorway, blowing toward the direction of the livingroom. This gets the hot air to that side of the house pretty effectively. I have been thinking about opening part of the livingroom wall so more air will circulate through the house and the room would feel more open. This would open the livingroom wall adjacent to the kitchen. 

I have had problems with backpuff since the last posts. I think in large due to the shorter chimney and lack of liner. The large space directly above the stove and old chimney flue reduces the draft dramatically, I would think. There is also an offset on the chimney. After the smoke enters the clay liners it has no problems but then it only has a short run out of the chimney top. The backpuff occurs during windy days. My conclusion is that the reduced draft caused by the lack of liner and shorter chimney height is the main cause of the backpuff in windy conditions. The cat still lights off on every load of wood and despite the occasional backpuff having the stove in the livingroom has greatly reduced the amount of wood used and increased the amount of heat in our main living floor. My next step in this wood heating endeavour is to get a liner for this chimney. 

Another thing worth mentioning is that the highest cat temp I was able to achieve in this new location is 850f. The operation of this stove has become fairly easy looking back at the old posts. I load it up with as much wood as I can fit in the box and after the load has caught fire on at least the sides I can see I can close the damper and make sure the cat temp goes from at least 300(at bypass closing time) to the top temp I've been able to get of 850f. The cat glows around 700 in this process. Then as the load continues to burn the glow goes away but the cat continues to work off the pollution while the temp goes down. I've grown accustomed to not having ghost flames throughout the entire burn cycle. The flames are obviously lively before the damper gets closed and I usually let the firebox reach about 575, as measured by the Rutland magnetic thermometer placed on the side loading door. I miss having access to the connector pipes and being able to measure flue temps, as I used to when it was in the basement. But, this has become in a way, an easier operation, because I have one less thing to gauge and try to control. 

Wood quality is another topic to be discussed. My wood is from trees that were cut between Dec 2008 and Spring of 2009. The trees were cut into logs Dec 2009. They sat covered under a tarp my back yard until now. I have been hand splitting them as needed. This means that the wood was not seasoned as well as it should be. The wood has to be split and stacked for at least a year in order to be seasoned. Some people like to have the wood split and stacked for at least two years before burning. This will yield the best results with an EPA stove. I'm burning cherry, maple and oak. I find oak is by far the best fuel for long burns and heat heat output. Maple seems to burn faster as does cherry. Oak is harder to cut but easier to split than the cherry and maple. The cherry is the hardest to split due to the wavy grain. 

Well the only thing missing is an updated picture of the stove! 

Again, I hope this thread will help others in the future. 

Thanks for reading.


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## raybonz (Jan 6, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> 
> I hope you're having a good new year so far.
> 
> ...



Glad you're doing well with that stove! Wet wood can also lead to some back puffs.. I get them on occasion but not all the time...

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 6, 2011)

Hey Ray, how's it going?

Nice to hear from you.  I read the entire thread this morning and must thank you again for all the help you've offered.  I need to get myself a moisture meter to figure out exactly what kind of moisture is in it to see what's affecting the puffing.  As you said the wood is surely one of the culprits.  What's the moisture content of your wood Ray and how has the new liner affected your stove?


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## raybonz (Jan 7, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hey Ray, how's it going?
> 
> Nice to hear from you.  I read the entire thread this morning and must thank you again for all the help you've offered.  I need to get myself a moisture meter to figure out exactly what kind of moisture is in it to see what's affecting the puffing.  As you said the wood is surely one of the culprits.  What's the moisture content of your wood Ray and how has the new liner affected your stove?



Hi Chris!

I have a low budget moisture meter and it's OK. To really know the moisture content you need to cut and split again then check it.. Generally my moisture is under 20% according to my meter.. If you add wood to the stove and it sizzles and gets a bit wet on the end then run with the bypass open until this stops and it will help.. Also burning small splits will cause it as it all tries to burn at once.. Experience is the best teacher here and your milage may vary,.. Dennis aka Backwoods Savage may have some good advice on this one or other cat stove owners..I find reducing or increasing air a little can alleviate this as well (moving the burning wood a bit can stop the puffs too).. BTW I only get a puff on occasion not all the time.. As for the liner it made a big difference at my house and I have to run my air lower than before.. Dry wood makes a big difference with a cat stove along with a good draft (wet wood also reduces draft by cooling the flue gas off)...

I see you have the short legs on the stove... lookin' good!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 7, 2011)

I really have come to realize that my next purchase will be a moisture meter.  It'll be another tool that'll assist me in burning the right way.  The wood hisses slightly now, but no bubbles at the end of the splits.  It is not fresh and green though, like last year.  The thing that gets me, is that the puffing only happens when it's windy.  This probably means the chimney is too low.  I'll have to measure roughly how tall it is.  The offset in it and the large area between the blockoff plate and the tyle liner has to be stealing a lot of thunder from my stove!!  

I want to eventually pull the stove out a couple more inches so I can reach the blower in the back.  Then I'll be able to run the power cabledown the ash pit into the basement and not in plain site.


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## wood-fan-atic (Jan 7, 2011)

Hey y'all. I have this stove sitting and awaiting a rebuild. If anyone knows of a place that can completely rebuild my large VC Ductchwest 2461cat - please let me know. Thanks!


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## VCBurner (Jan 16, 2011)

Hello all,

The DW has been upstairs now for one and 1/2 months.  I couldn't be happier with the results.  We had the furnace heating the house from sometime friday morning.  The worst 30 hours I've had since we put the stove up here.  Last night, I could not get sleep with that dry heat in my bedroom.  So, I went outside to get some wood this morning and decided to do a clean up and inspection of the chimney.  I took the top off, cleaned the cat and refractory as well as the convectory/blower channels.  I definitely need a new cat.  That will be next month.  There was so little build up in the flue that I didn't even need to brush it, I'll do it when it's time to install the liner.  I also put an extention of horizontal pipe going from the back of the stove.  The 2 1/2" section was just enough to put the stovejust outside the fireplace.  This, I like.  I can now access the fan, to turn it on/off and vacuum the blower.  There was so much dust caked up on it that it wasn't a surprize the thing was getting louder and louder.  It quieted way down after I cleaned it.  With all clean connectors and secondary chamber she was ready to heat the house!!

My house was 62f  at 4pm when I started a fire.  Two hours later 72f.  The house is warm again and we're all happy!  The last time I looked it was 76 outside the stove room  :bug:   We have to get used to being warm again.  

PS. : I put furniture moving pads under the legs of the stove and it was a breeze sliding it out to do the work in the back!  Next step,  the liner and a new cat!


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 16, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> The DW has been upstairs now for one and 1/2 months.  I couldn't be happier with the results.  We had the furnace heating the house from sometime friday morning.  The worst 30 hours I've had since we put the stove up here.  Last night, I could not get sleep with that dry heat in my bedroom.  So, I went outside to get some wood this morning and decided to do a clean up and inspection of the chimney.  I took the top off, cleaned the cat and refractory as well as the convectory/blower channels.  I definitely need a new cat.  That will be next month.  There was so little build up in the flue that I didn't even need to brush it, I'll do it when it's time to install the liner.  I also put an extention of horizontal pipe going from the back of the stove.  The 2 1/2" section was just enough to put the stovejust outside the fireplace.  This, I like.  I can now access the fan, to turn it on/off and vacuum the blower.  There was so much dust caked up on it that it wasn't a surprize the thing was getting louder and louder.  It quieted way down after I cleaned it.  With all clean connectors and secondary chamber she was ready to heat the house!!
> 
> ...




How do you need a new cat already?!


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## raybonz (Jan 16, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> The DW has been upstairs now for one and 1/2 months.  I couldn't be happier with the results.  We had the furnace heating the house from sometime friday morning.  The worst 30 hours I've had since we put the stove up here.  Last night, I could not get sleep with that dry heat in my bedroom.  So, I went outside to get some wood this morning and decided to do a clean up and inspection of the chimney.  I took the top off, cleaned the cat and refractory as well as the convectory/blower channels.  I definitely need a new cat.  That will be next month.  There was so little build up in the flue that I didn't even need to brush it, I'll do it when it's time to install the liner.  I also put an extention of horizontal pipe going from the back of the stove.  The 2 1/2" section was just enough to put the stovejust outside the fireplace.  This, I like.  I can now access the fan, to turn it on/off and vacuum the blower.  There was so much dust caked up on it that it wasn't a surprize the thing was getting louder and louder.  It quieted way down after I cleaned it.  With all clean connectors and secondary chamber she was ready to heat the house!!
> 
> ...



Hi Chris can you tell me exactly which furniture moving pads you use? They sound like a good idea to me and do you leave them under the legs of the stove all the time? I know I have a hard time moving this stove as I usually do it alone and it weighs over 400 lbs.. I want to build a new hearth and I know you're a carpenter so who knows maybe you could use a side job?   I have a link for a low cost ceramic cat with free shipping if you need it.. 

Ray


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## raybonz (Jan 16, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## VCBurner (Jan 16, 2011)

> Hi Chris can you tell me exactly which furniture moving pads you use? They sound like a good idea to me and do you leave them under the legs of the stove all the time? I know I have a hard time moving this stove as I usually do it alone and it weighs over 400 lbs.. I want to build a new hearth and I know youâ€™re a carpenter so who knows maybe you could use a side job?   I have a link for a low cost ceramic cat with free shipping if you need it..
> Ray


Hi Ray,  
Was it you who suggested the pads?  Anyway, they are just your run of the mill beige plastic pads from Wallmart.  I left them under the stove for the past hours and so far they are just fine.  It doesn't get terribly hot under there.  It was easy to put the pads under it too!  Having the short 2" legs I only used a 2x3 block on its face and a flat bar to lift the stove and slide the pads under the first side.  I used an additional piece of half inch plywood to get a little extra lift under the bar for the second side.  Yes, please send me the link for the cat.  As far as the hearth, send me a PM when you're ready and we can discuss the details.  




> BrowningBAR Posted: 16 January 2011 12:26 AM
> How do you need a new cat already?!


Hey BrowningBar, 
Ray was right, I bought the stove knowing that the cat's age was unknown.  The seller told me it would probably need one within the next couple of years.  The $550 I paid for it was only worth it because it had been completely taken appart, recemmented, regasketed and repainted.  It was like new in condition except for the cat.  You can find these stoves on CL for as low as $200-$300.  I don't know what kind of shape they are in though!  Some may have warped parts as well as burned out cats.  The one I bought grabbed me because of its pristine shape.  I had been to two other stove rebuilders the day I found it and his shop also struck me by surprize.  He only had a few stoves in there and some were completely appart.  He sandblasts all of them and puts them back together piece by piece.  Replacing only what's warped and damaged.  



Thanks for the reply guys,  I went to look at a Hearthstone Harvest today.  The guy is only about 10 minutes away and I may be able to grab it for $400.  What do you think?  It's in pretty decent shape but could use some paint and probably a new cat, eventually.  He had not loadad since 9:30pm and it was past 10 am when I got to his house.  I could not believe how hot those stones were!!  You could barely put your hands on them :wow:  It also needs some new paint on the cast iron frame.  But it's a handsome stove.  I would use it in the basement to heat what's going to be a bedroom/playroom for the kids.  One of the stones also has a cracked corner. Let me know what your opinion is, especially you BrowningBAR, as an experienced Hearthstoner, how much was your Heritage?  Was it new?

Well I got to go.  The Patriots game is on,  GO PATS!


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## raybonz (Jan 16, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> > Hi Chris can you tell me exactly which furniture moving pads you use? They sound like a good idea to me and do you leave them under the legs of the stove all the time? I know I have a hard time moving this stove as I usually do it alone and it weighs over 400 lbs.. I want to build a new hearth and I know youâ€™re a carpenter so who knows maybe you could use a side job?   I have a link for a low cost ceramic cat with free shipping if you need it..
> > Ray
> 
> 
> ...


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## VCBurner (Jan 16, 2011)

Thaks Ray good info!


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2011)

Not a good overnight burn last night.  I can't blame the stove.  The wood, which was cherry and oak, is not as dry as it should be and I stuffed a huge oak split in there.  It was 67 in the house at 6am, three or four fresh splits went in at 10pm.  The bed of coals were not as big when i put in the coals, either.  I was trying to tone down heat rpoduction last night because it was 78 in here at 7pm.  I won't do that again.  Boy, would I love a new cat!!


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## raybonz (Jan 17, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Not a good overnight burn last night.  I can't blame the stove.  The wood, which was cherry and oak, is not as dry as it should be and I stuffed a huge oak split in there.  It was 67 in the house at 6am, three or four fresh splits went in at 10pm.  The bed of coals were not as big when i put in the coals, either.  I was trying to tone down heat rpoduction last night because it was 78 in here at 7pm.  I won't do that again.  Boy, would I love a new cat!!



Chris have you tried vacuum cleaning your cat and inspect that the holes are not blocked? There is also a cleaning procedure you can try : 
http://www.condar.com/combustorcleaningmanual.pdf

Ray


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## Todd (Jan 17, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I took the top off, cleaned the cat and refractory as well as the convectory/blower channels.  I definitely need a new cat.  That will be next month.  There was so little build up in the flue that I didn't even need to brush it, I'll do it when it's time to install the liner.



Sounds like your cat is still working, stove is burning clean and you are getting plenty of heat. Are you seeing any smoke?


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I did it the other day.  Same day that I pulled the stove away fron the fireplace.  I was amazed to see how little ash was in the secondary burn chamber!  The cat had small parts that had cracked away.  Not too many though.  The overnight burn from the night before was as good as usual.  The furniture pads are still under it BTW!  

Oh! Good news is...I loaded her up at 6am (this morning,) the house was at 67...four hours later house is at 77 and she's still going strong!!  Stove temp is slightly over 400, but the cat is at 500.  So, yeah, I need a new cat, badly.  I looked into ordering one and found a couple of good deals.  Thanks for the links!  I also found 15' of 6" flex liner for $129 plus $50 shipping= $180!  It's the good SS 316Ti too, not the thin cheap liner.  Well, enjoy your day!
Thanks for the post.
Chris


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2011)

Todd said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
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Hello Todd,
Yes, I think it still works.  But, not up to par with a new cat. I can't see any smoke once the cat lights off, but it is sluggish and only stays at 800 for a short time.  I'd say it's time for a new one.

 It only climbs up to about 800-825 during the burn cycle.  With a new cat it would go well over 1000 and coast around 800 for a while on the downslope.  I know the wood is not the main culprit.  I tried a load of BIO bricks and it only climbed up to 850.  The shorter chimney is to blame for maybe 100-200 of those lacking degrees.  Last year, when it was connected to a taller stack in climbed up to 1000 only a couple of times that I can remember.  In conclusion, the cat needs replacement.  That will be the first thing.  I'll see how the temps change with a new combustor.  A liner is next...then a vaccu-stack chimney cap maybe...a double wall 3' pipe on top of the stack to add to the draft.  A little at a time, I'll get there.  So far since I started burning wood I've probably saved around $4000 in heating costs.  I've spent a little over $1000 counting two stoves, a chainsaw, and other miscelaneous items.  I'm still way beyond the red even with all of the items listed above.  

Nice to hear from you Todd,
Take care,
Chris


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 17, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Todd said:
> 
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Is the catalyst warped? Is there any damage to the honeycomb?


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2011)

It's not warped, but it is showing some signs of age.  Some cracking of the catalyst.  A few chuncks missing.


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## raybonz (Jan 17, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> It's not warped, but it is showing some signs of age.  Some cracking of the catalyst.  A few chuncks missing.



Yup time for a fresh one.. 

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 17, 2011)

Check out these pics of this rebuilt older Consolidated Dutchwest.  Federal Airtight I believe!  I can't believe how good it looks!!  This person did an incredible refinishing job.  A bit pricy, but I'm sure it was a lot of work making it look this good!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vermont-Casting...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6440588458152678934


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## raybonz (Jan 17, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Check out these pics of this rebuilt older Consolidated Dutchwest.  Federal Airtight I believe!  I can't believe how good it looks!!  This person did an incredible refinishing job.  A bit pricy, but I'm sure it was a lot of work making it look this good!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vermont-Casting...&otn=5&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=6440588458152678934



Boy that stove is cherry! It is the exact same stove as mine except I don't have the rear heat shield, warming racks or brass rail.. I have everything else in those pics including the round 6" flue outlet (came with oval too).. These stoves came with everything Chris including the ashbin, gloves, wood carrier and firetools with stand plus spare door latch threaded knobs, furnace cement and all the coal burning stuff plus a cooktop without the cat probe recess and hole... Mine is still in good condition but some parts may be hard or impossible to get new now such as the inner top.. If that ever lets go I'd probably have to retire it..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 18, 2011)

I'd like the warming shelves myself.  I didn't know you had a non-probe gridlle top!  Cool feature.  
I thought you'd like this one Ray!

Does your inner top look like this? There's one on E Bay with this title: 30002233 Inner Top for Dutchwest Large Woodstove
Here's a link 
http://cgi.ebay.com/30002233-Inner-...917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3eff8a2cfd


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## raybonz (Jan 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I'd like the warming shelves myself.  I didn't know you had a non-probe gridlle top!  Cool feature.
> I thought you'd like this one Ray!
> 
> Does your inner top look like this? There's one on E Bay with this title: 30002233 Inner Top for Dutchwest Large Woodstove
> ...



Mine came with both a probe and non-probe griddle hot plate.. As for the top it is not the same as there is no place for a cat on that one... Must be a real old stove or some non-cat?

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 18, 2011)

I guess you could always buy one for parts.  I've seen some, both older CDW's and newer models for as low as $200-300 on CL.


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## raybonz (Jan 18, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I guess you could always buy one for parts.  I've seen some, both older CDW's and newer models for as low as $200-300 on CL.



I think you got a great deal on your stove plus you can get any parts you need.. There is site that may custom make some of those obscure parts called Woodsmans part  plus  http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/catalogs/Wood-and-Coal-Stove-Manufacturers-Cross-Reference.html . I think they have a foundry up in NH or access to one.. Bought a fixed center grate for my stove from them last year..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Jan 23, 2011)

Check out this video on U Tube, too bad itâ€™s in Japanese.  No wonder the Orientals are going to take over the world!  No one could come up with a video like this here?  Theyâ€™d rather just say: burning fires is more an art than a science.  As if this adds to the mistique of fire burning.  Dutchwest Japan just studied the stove and broke it down to simple terms!  Unbelievable!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk3AobjJB64&feature=related


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 23, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Check out this video on U Tube, too bad itâ€™s in Japanese.  No wonder the Orientals are going to take over the world!  No one could come up with a video like this here?  Theyâ€™d rather just say: burning fires is more an art than a science.  As if this adds to the mistique of fire burning.  Dutchwest Japan just studied the stove and broke it down to simple terms!  Unbelievable!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk3AobjJB64&feature=related



Orientals are rugs.


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## VCBurner (Jan 23, 2011)

BrowningBAR said:
			
		

> VCBurner said:
> 
> 
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> ...


 :lol: LMAO, Really though did you watch the video Browning?

Am I being politically incorrect?  I don't mean to sound like a jerk.  Is the corect term Asian?  Asia to me is a pretty large continent, I can't refer to all Asians as one thing, there are too many diverse countries.  Anyway, the Japanese really hit this nail head on!

I learned two things today mostly from watching this video and thinking about it:

1)*You should shut the secondary all the way while reloading the stove*, to keep the cat from cooling off too fast.
2)*Shutting the primary down all the way while reloading, will keep the smoke from coming out of the side door*.  The primary air comes down from above the glass door and washes the glass while going to the firebase.  This forces the smoke down and out the door when it's open.  If the primary air is shut, the smoke will get sucked in the door and up the flue, even if a little tries to roll out from the bottom splits.


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## BrowningBAR (Jan 23, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Am I being politically incorrect?  I don't mean to sound like a jerk.  Is the corect term Asian?  Asia to me is a pretty large continent, I can't refer to all Asians as one thing, there are too many diverse countries.



I don't actually care, I just thought it was funny. I knew an asian girl that would get upset every time someone called her oriental. Her reply would be "ORIENTALS ARE RUGS!"


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## VCBurner (Jan 27, 2011)

I came across this site the other day:
http://www.discountstove.com/cdwidguide.html

It has a guide for recognizing Dutchwest stove models.  I've yet to find out the exact year of production of my stove.  Sometime between 1993 and the time I bought it in 2010.  What I can't tell is if it is pre or post 1997.  There were a few minor changes made in 1997.  The guy who sold it to me says it was about 6-7 years old.  But, I really don't know.  There's a manufacture code in the back, no date.  For the most part of it this stove has remained the same since 1993.  Those stoves can use the same parts being made for the 2011 Dutchwest 2461.  Not too many stoves around have withstood the test of time like this one.


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2011)

I got a new steel cat a couple of days ago.  Thanks Ray!  It just got put in tonight and the first fire with it is under way!  I took some pics to document the cat replacement.  I'll update the thread with the results of the first burn.  The pics are of  the old ceramic cat with some cracks, the stove with the top off, the new and old side by side and the new cat in place.  Yes those are my feet with sandals and socks :cheese:

Edit: I had no interim gasket to put around the cat so I stuffed a piece of rope gasket around the spots that it would fit.  It did not fit all the way around the cat.  There was only enough space to stuff the rope around half of the cat, the rest was pushed tightly against the cast iron.  The part that fit the most rope was the part closest to the bypass damper.  I added the last picture of the stove back together and the first fire after the new cat.


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow!  This cat lights off, I mean glowing, at 350 degrees!  I can also engage the cat without having my wood all burned half to a crisp.  I still have not had very high temps beyond 1000 though.  I need a liner next, with an extention and a vacustack cap!   Tomorrow, I'll load it up for an overnight with a full load of oak, just to see how hot I can get the cat.

Edit:  Right now the cat is at 800 and glowing so bright that I can see its glow reflect off the top piece of wood in the firebox.  I'm loving the heat coming out of this thing.  Running this stove has become even better!
        I'm going to try to play with the settings now to adjust to the new and totally improved cat.  Anyone who needs a cat should seriously consider a stainless steel cat, awesome!  This one cost me $50 plus $9 shipping from ebay, yes it usually costs near $190.  I have to thank Raybonz again for this one, he's the one who found it.  Thanks brother!


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## raybonz (Feb 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Wow!  This cat lights off, I mean glowing, at 350 degrees!  I can also engage the cat without having my wood all burned half to a crisp.  I still have not had very high temps beyond 1000 though.  I need a liner next, with an extention and a vacustack cap!   Tomorrow, I'll load it up for an overnight with a full load of oak, just to see how hot I can get the cat.
> 
> Edit:  Right now the cat is at 800 and glowing so bright that I can see its glow reflect off the top piece of wood in the firebox.  I'm loving the heat coming out of this thing.  Running this stove has become even better!
> I'm going to try to play with the settings now to adjust to the new and totally improved cat.  Anyone who needs a cat should seriously consider a stainless steel cat, awesome!  This one cost me $50 plus $9 shipping from ebay, yes it usually costs near $190.  I have to thank Raybonz again for this one, he's the one who found it.  Thanks brother!



Right on Chris! I knew you'd be amazed how well this cat performs! I did contact Woodstock Stoves and they do have the 6"x2" cat in S/S for $125.00 which is an excellent deal because these Sud Chemie cats may be the last of the Mohicans.. I find this stove much easier to run with the S/S cat and I am running catalytic in 5-10 mins now.. I am glad you like it and also that you got the same great deal that I did! The timing was right as you had mentioned that you needed a new cat and these popped up..

Ray


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## raybonz (Feb 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I got a new steel cat a couple of days ago.  Thanks Ray!  It just got put in tonight and the first fire with it is under way!  I took some pics to document the cat replacement.  I'll update the thread with the results of the first burn.  The pics are of  the old ceramic cat with some cracks, the stove with the top off, the new and old side by side and the new cat in place.  Yes those are my feet with sandals and socks :cheese:
> 
> Edit: I had no interim gasket to put around the cat so I stuffed a piece of rope gasket around the spots that it would fit.  It did not fit all the way around the cat.  There was only enough space to stuff the rope around half of the cat, the rest was pushed tightly against the cast iron.  The part that fit the most rope was the part closest to the bypass damper.  I added the last picture of the stove back together and the first fire after the new cat.



I like the design of your stove better than this old one.. I can see it has better airflow characteristics around the cat and also along the back and over the inner top.. Your stove looks like it is in good condition..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 21, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> Right on Chris! I knew you'd be amazed how well this cat performs! I did contact Woodstock Stoves and they do have the 6"x2" cat in S/S for $125.00 which is an excellent deal because these Sud Chemie cats may be the last of the Mohicans.. I find this stove much easier to run with the S/S cat and I am running catalytic in 5-10 mins now.. I am glad you like it and also that you got the same great deal that I did! The timing was right as you had mentioned that you needed a new cat and these popped up..
> 
> Ray


  Oh yeah!  It is so much easier knowing the cat will engage when you shut the bypass!  I tried at 350 cat probe temp this morning, while the cat was still dark and it was almost automatic, the glow was there in a matter of seconds.  I didn't reload until 9am, right now it is glowing red.  Each time I start the reload I'll try to engage a little earlier to see how quickly I can do it.  I'm still testing the waters.  But so far I'm totally impressed with the SS cat.  Anyone thinking of replacing theirs should definitely get one of these.  Like you said, even at $125 from Woodstock it would still be a deal.  What do you mean about last of the Mohicans?  Are they not producing them anymore?  



> I like the design of your stove better than this old one.. I can see it has better airflow characteristics around the cat and also along the back and over the inner top.. Your stove looks like it is in good condition..
> 
> Ray


I lucked out with this one.  All the parts are in good shape, nothing's warped and the old cat lasted just long enough for me to get a new one.  The old cat still functions too, so I'll hang on to it just in case.  The pictures of the secondary chamber and convection chamber is a bit misleading due to the dirty look and flash that makes it look even worse.  I vaccum the chamber each time, but there is surprisingly little fly ash build up in the cat chamber.  This is not a high maintenance stove in that reguard, or any aspect in my eyes.  Keeping in mind this is my first EPA stove.  I'm still very pleased with this stove, even more now that it has a supercharged cat!


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## raybonz (Feb 21, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What I mean is I have not seen another Sud Chemie cat on e-bay since those 3 surfaced and all at the same time.. Sud Chemie only manufactures S/S cats for Condar now so you have 2 choices at least on our particular cat size.. 

1) You buy them for $125.00 from Woodstock (the best option for a 6"x2" S/S cat)
2) You buy them from Condar for the exorbitant price of $179.00 (I suspect some serious price gouging going on here!)

$54.00 more from Condar?? Really??? Obviously they are making a killing here! I tip my hat to Woodstock once again they have impressed me! They will be a serious contender if/when I upgrade...

Ray


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## kpauley (Feb 22, 2011)

I have a 2461 and was trying to locate a blower for it, I see you mentioning it in this great thread.  I see it referenced in the manual but it doesn't show any part number and I'm trying to source one and see more pictures of what it looks like.  If you have a p/n or any other info that could help me in finding where to get one it would be great.

Also, I see you referenced a top - down load or start, what does that mean?


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## raybonz (Feb 22, 2011)

kpauley said:
			
		

> I have a 2461 and was trying to locate a blower for it, I see you mentioning it in this great thread.  I see it referenced in the manual but it doesn't show any part number and I'm trying to source one and see more pictures of what it looks like.  If you have a p/n or any other info that could help me in finding where to get one it would be great.
> 
> Also, I see you referenced a top - down load or start, what does that mean?



http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/fasco/fasco_blower.htm ..  Look at 50747-D401 the important thing is the blower flange diameter.. I am pretty sure I have the Dayton 4c440 on my stove and added a bat handle toggle switch to it at the motor junction box.. I also drilled the flange to reorient the blower.. Oil it once or twice a yr. and it will last you a decade..

Or look here: http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/dayton_blower.htm and look at blower 1TDN7 ...

Ray


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## VCBurner (Feb 22, 2011)

kpauley said:
			
		

> I have a 2461 and was trying to locate a blower for it, I see you mentioning it in this great thread.  I see it referenced in the manual but it doesn't show any part number and I'm trying to source one and see more pictures of what it looks like.  If you have a p/n or any other info that could help me in finding where to get one it would be great.
> 
> Also, I see you referenced a top - down load or start, what does that mean?



Welcome to the forum kpauley,

The part #for the cdw fan kit is 0009973.  This is without the rheostat.  (Dutchwest Stove Thermostat Blower Fan Control Part #000FT1)
I wish I had the rheostat on mine.  But like Ray said, you can adapt other fans to this stove, in some cases the fan may even be a better fan than the ones they sell for these stoves. Although, I've had no problem with mine at all, and it comes with the block off plates for the bottom of the stove where the convection air would come in.  With the fan on the 2461 you need to block off these inlets in order to blow the air out of the intended outlet.  

Top down is kind of like starting a fire in reverse.  Big splits on the bottom and smaller at the top with kindling to top it off.  This lights the fire from the top of the pile and spreads down.  It is great, because you don't have to add splits to the top of the fire, which often smothers the fire, killing its intensity.  I sort of use a modified top down now, two logs front and back, kindling in the middle with increasing kindling to small splits on top.  Laying small kindling bridging across the two logs and building up from there.  The top down fires are great, though, because you generally don't have to add anything to it once it's lit.  They take a little longer to generate heat but are more hands off once started.

Glad you liked the thread hope it helps you!  Here's a picture of what the fan looks like:


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## raybonz (Feb 22, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> kpauley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting this stove came with block off plates and screens.. I added my own blower and the original ones I got free because they were returns and I repaired a couple then made my own.. 

Ray


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## kpauley (Feb 22, 2011)

Great, quick info, thanks!  I found the one on ebay that it looks like that picture is from, looks like they also sell the thermostat as well.  From the sounds of the thread it seems that this blower will help distribute the heat in the room and through the house.  We have the stove in a large cathedral ceiling room that is around 22' x 18' in size.  There is a ceiling fan in the room that seems to help, but I'd like to get a little more spread through the house and thought this could help.  When this is blowing, where does the heat blow out of, the top vent area?  And I think I heard some comments that it's a little loud, any thing you can compare the sound to?  I'd hate to spend a couple hundred bucks and find out we don't want to use it because it's too loud!


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## VCBurner (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey Ray!

On the last load, I put three or four little 1.5" sticks on top of the coals and let them fully burn, then added as many odd shaped splits as I could fit in the box.  About a minute later I closed the bypass and engaged the cat (probe temp at 300) side door around 400.  I looked at the cat through the door, less than thirty seconds after the bypass was shut, the cat went from dark to bright red.  This load was not intended on being a long lasting burn, we were going out to dinner at a local restaurant so I wanted to just keep it hot in the house, but wanted to engage the cat in a hurry so we could go.  We got back a couple of hours later and the house was 80 degrees, and the cat was still glowing.  There were a few short and stocky oak splits in there and they are still burning strong as we speak.  Five hours after they went in.  I have to think about loading it for an overnight burn now, but I hate to even touch these perfectly chunky glowing coals that are in there.  I brought a full load of oak to go in tonight, but I'm afraid of how hot  the house will get if I load it up right now, it is still 79 just outside the stove room.  Ahhh, the worries of a wood burner!


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## VCBurner (Feb 22, 2011)

kpauley said:
			
		

> Great, quick info, thanks!  I found the one on ebay that it looks like that picture is from, looks like they also sell the thermostat as well.  From the sounds of the thread it seems that this blower will help distribute the heat in the room and through the house.  We have the stove in a large cathedral ceiling room that is around 22' x 18' in size.  There is a ceiling fan in the room that seems to help, but I'd like to get a little more spread through the house and thought this could help.  When this is blowing, where does the heat blow out of, the top vent area?  And I think I heard some comments that it's a little loud, any thing you can compare the sound to?  I'd hate to spend a couple hundred bucks and find out we don't want to use it because it's too loud!



Yes, it blows out of the slot just below the stove top.  I find the stove room is usually slightly cooler and the rest of the house is warmer with the blower on.  It helps spread the heat more evenly for sure.  Anytime you add a blower there is a slight amount of noise that comes with it.  Our is not very loud, it gets a lot louder if you don't vac it off at least once or twice a month.  This is just a result of dust build up in the air inlets of the fan.  I usually try to vac it off once every 7-10 days, the cleaner the better, for air movement and noise reduction.  I have a small electric room heater which has a fan that sounds most similar to this blower.  I would highly recommend it.  Check your local VC dealer for his price before going through Ebay (yes the pic came from there,) you may find it for a better price.  I got mine from the guy who rebuilt the stove I now own.  He works for a dealer as an installer and rebuilds stoves on the side.  My blower cost less than half the retail price (the price of cost to the shop.)  This goes to show how much mark up and room for bargaining there is.  I think he said the rheostat would cost about 25 bucks.  I've seen it on Ebay for 65.


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## kpauley (Feb 22, 2011)

We have a couple of stove dealers not too far away, I will check with them.  

I'm fine with some noise of course, just trying to compare.  I'm guessing it's not too different from the noise that a pellet stove puts out.

One other question about the block off plates, I didn't realize there were openings in the bottom of the stove for circulation and now see them in the manual.  I'm guessing if those are blocked with debris it could be hurting my airflow (in my current state without the blower).  The blow apart drawing looks like that chamber is separate from the ash drawer and possibly difficult to get debris into.  We've only owned this house for less than a year and the people before were literally pigs (we got the place for very cheap on a short sale).  I don't think I would normally suspect an issue, but in this case I thought it would be good to check out.  

With a fire going, damper open or closed, should I expect some sort of draft of air going through those?  They were covered with cobwebs when I looked and I put a flame from a long lighter near there and didn't really see much of a draft.


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## raybonz (Feb 22, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Hey Ray!
> 
> On the last load, I put three or four little 1.5" sticks on top of the coals and let them fully burn, then added as many odd shaped splits as I could fit in the box.  About a minute later I closed the bypass and engaged the cat (probe temp at 300) side door around 400.  I looked at the cat through the door, less than thirty seconds after the bypass was shut, the cat went from dark to bright red.  This load was not intended on being a long lasting burn, we were going out to dinner at a local restaurant so I wanted to just keep it hot in the house, but wanted to engage the cat in a hurry so we could go.  We got back a couple of hours later and the house was 80 degrees, and the cat was still glowing.  There were a few short and stocky oak splits in there and they are still burning strong as we speak.  Five hours after they went in.  I have to think about loading it for an overnight burn now, but I hate to even touch these perfectly chunky glowing coals that are in there.  I brought a full load of oak to go in tonight, but I'm afraid of how hot  the house will get if I load it up right now, it is still 79 just outside the stove room.  Ahhh, the worries of a wood burner!



You're getting the same results that I see here Chris.. This stove went from Buick to Ferrari when I installed this cat! The performance difference is amazing! Right now my cat thermometer is around 1350 and the stove pipe surface temp is over 300 and this is with the air at a medium/low setting.. I loaded the stove last night (4 large oak splits that filled the firebox to the roof) around 9:30 pm and at 7 am and choked the air way down.. The stove was cruising with the cat around 1350 degrees. When I checked on it at 7 AM it was still catalytic (around 500 degrees).. Outside it was 11 degrees and it was 68 degrees in  the house.. Raked the hot coals and loaded her up with one small split of pine and some oak and 15 minutes later she was running catalytic.. I find it much easier to run this stove now and it saves me time when I work my long days.. I'm glad you decided to install the cat and not wait until next year so you could experience the difference..

Ray


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## certified106 (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey Guys, You are experiencing the same thing I did when I replaced my cat at the beginning of this year. I have noticed thought that it takes a little longer to light off now after burning nonstop since the the end of October  however it's still WAY better than the Cat I had that was 4 years old( I have pulled the Cat and checked it out and it was perfectly clean with no warping as of 2 weeks ago). Keep us updated on how it's performing.


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## raybonz (Feb 22, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Hey Guys, You are experiencing the same thing I did when I replaced my cat at the beginning of this year. I have noticed thought that it takes a little longer to light off now after burning nonstop since the the end of October  however it's still WAY better than the Cat I had that was 4 years old( I have pulled the Cat and checked it out and it was perfectly clean with no warping as of 2 weeks ago). Keep us updated on how it's performing.



Hi Cert,
Did you install a S/S cat too? I have checked mine and no problems with any warping here.. I think it would have been happening if it was going to happen..

Ray


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## certified106 (Feb 22, 2011)

Ray, I did install a stainless cat this fall and have no regrets as of yet. It has functioned better than any ceramic cat I have ever owned  so far and the only thing left to prove is the longevity of the cat (will it last 4 years like my porcelain ones did). Keep us updated on how yours is holding up.


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## Woodboy (Feb 28, 2011)

Can you run these stoves without the refractory?
I noticed that the pictures that vcburner showed did not have the refractory.


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## raybonz (Feb 28, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Ray, I did install a stainless cat this fall and have no regrets as of yet. It has functioned better than any ceramic cat I have ever owned  so far and the only thing left to prove is the longevity of the cat (will it last 4 years like my porcelain ones did). Keep us updated on how yours is holding up.



I checked the cat recently and it looks the same as the day I installed it and works excellent! Chris hopefully will add his update as well.. I read that some have issues with the SS cats clogging I have not seen this here in fact it looked like new when I pulled it out with no clogging at all.. If you burn woods that create light fly ash or perhaps wet wood that may be the problem.. I have been burning mainly seasoned red oak, ash, cherry and a little poplar, silver maple or pine as a firestarter here.. $59.00 for this cat was an absolute bargain!

Ray


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## raybonz (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't remember who posted what the firebox size is on the large convection.. I remembered to take a measurement after raking the coals and basically at least with this stove come up with approximately 2 cu. ft. . I know I can get overnight 8-9 hr. burns with the air down low and it holds quite a bit of wood.. Being all cast iron you can jam it in there without breaking anything.. You can fit almost 24" long wood in it but it's designed for 22" max.. I wonder if the 2461 has the same size firebox?

Ray


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## leeave96 (Mar 1, 2011)

What kind of fireview do you get with the glass door?  Does the stove have an airwash system to keep the glass clean - does the glass stay clean?

Just as a point of reference, my Woodstock Keystone has an almost fireplace look through the glass and stays very clean.  It is easy to monitor the fire just watching it vs checking the thermometer temps.  Not to compare the Dutchwest to the Keystone, but to give a point of reference from where I am coming from.

I'm going to look at another XL cat this weekend - different dealer.

Thanks,
Bill


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## Hardrockmaple (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes there is an airwash system on the newer ones, with dry wood I have to wipe some whitish haze off the glass every 10 days or so. Every now and then a split may roll to close to the glass in an overnite burn creating a creosote smudge, throw in a few splits, fire 'er up and the stove will clean itself.


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## raybonz (Mar 1, 2011)

Hardrockmaple said:
			
		

> Yes there is an airwash system on the newer ones, with dry wood I have to wipe some whitish haze off the glass every 10 days or so. Every now and then a split may roll to close to the glass in an overnite burn creating a creosote smudge, throw in a few splits, fire 'er up and the stove will clean itself.



You definitely have cleaner glass than I do however I can usually see the fire so I know what's going on.. VC made some nice improvements when they bought CDW the only one I am not crazy about is the handle.. Mine are made with heavy brass and would be hard to break.. The stove came with 3 of them too lol.. I am a big fan of the 2461 and hope to get one someday..

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2011)

Woodboy said:
			
		

> Can you run these stoves without the refractory?
> I noticed that the pictures that vcburner showed did not have the refractory.



I would not run it without the refractory, it would be really easy to warp all sorts of cast iron parts.  I should have taken a picture with the refractory back on,  it simply covers the cat and is shaped like a pie slice with the tip cut off.


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> I don't remember who posted what the firebox size is on the large convection.. I remembered to take a measurement after raking the coals and basically at least with this stove come up with approximately 2 cu. ft. . I know I can get overnight 8-9 hr. burns with the air down low and it holds quite a bit of wood.. Being all cast iron you can jam it in there without breaking anything.. You can fit almost 24" long wood in it but it's designed for 22" max.. I wonder if the 2461 has the same size firebox?
> 
> Ray



Hey Ray,

I posted the cu. ftg. for the CDW 2461 and what I estimated would be the ftg. of the XL 2462.  It was on Bill's (leeave96) thread.  My measurements came out to 2.3 cu ft.  But the really usefull space is more like 2 taking away the space between the andirons and the glass, giving a one inch space on the ends for air space as recommended and other little nooks.  I can also fit a stick of 23 3/4" in the firebox.   I believe the Federal airtight and the new DW are very much the same size, at least from what you've said in comparison to my numbers.  

Here's what I said on the other thread:



> I remember seeing some forebox sizes on an online dealer site somewhere, but I canâ€™t remember where it was now!  Anyway my firebox measurements are about 23wx14hx12d give or take in some spots.  This comes out to 2.2 cubic feet.  The real useful part of the firebox is probably more like 2 cu. ft. The logs are supposed to have some space on the ends so if you multiply 22x14 or 1.83ftx1.16ft = 2.13 cubic feet.  The other measurement is pretty much a foot or 12â€ so it does not need to be figured into the equation because it would be like multiplying it by 1.  I donâ€™t know what the size of the XL firebox is.  But, by adding the difference between the LG and XL measurements this is what I come up with 24w X 17h X 14d = 3.28 cubic feet.  Again this is just an aproximation.
> 
> Dutchwest Lg 2461 = 2.2 cubic feet
> Dutchwest XL 2162 = 3.28 cubic feet ?


It's also worth mentioning a link to the thread where this quote came from:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/71444/


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## raybonz (Mar 1, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> raybonz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK thanx Chris I couldn't recall which post that came from.. I think your cu. ft. numbers are more accurate than mine because I only did a quick general measurement as the hot coals were gonna burn my tape measure paint off lol.. I just know it holds a lot of wood and the XL holds a small forest  Funny that DW doesn't provide that in the specs as it's a good selling point..

Ray


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## certified106 (Mar 1, 2011)

Hey Guys, 
I have been pricing new Dutchwest stoves and ran across these firebox size numbers. I'm not sure I completely agree with them but they may be slightly more realistic when thinking about the stove itself as I know I have a hard time actually filling the firebox itself up to full capacity. A few of the problems I have always had with getting this firebox full are:
1) It seems like I can never get my wood to fit properly around the catalyst which sits in the middle of the stove 
2) Once you load the bottom pieces of wood into the stove it's hard to get the top pieces in without having the wood stick into the    damper area 
3) you have to angle the top pieces in since the door doesn't open all the way to the top of the firebox. Then the pieces have to be significantly shorter than the stated 25" or you get the wood jammed halfway in the stove and it's stuck between the top of the door frame and the top of the stove.

These observations are just annoyances that I have had over the years of loading my stove they definitely aren't' deal breakers for me buying a new Dutchwest and it's still at the top of my list. I have noticed that the door on the new XL is significantly larger than my XL which would make loading much easier. 

                       X-Large     Large     Small
Log Length         25"              22"              19"
Firebox size        2.4 cu ft     1.4 cu ft     1.2 cu ft
Flue size            8" oval     6" round     6" round
Rear flue ht.       33" to top     30" to top     30" to top
Avg burn time     10 hours     9 hours     7 hours
Max output        55,000 btu     40,000 btu     35,000 btu
Weight             550 lbs     425 lbs     390 lbs


*(sorry my little table didn't turn out well)


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## raybonz (Mar 1, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Hey Guys,
> I have been pricing new Dutchwest stoves and ran across these firebox size numbers. I'm not sure I completely agree with them but they may be slightly more realistic when thinking about the stove itself as I know I have a hard time actually filling the firebox itself up to full capacity. A few of the problems I have always had with getting this firebox full are:
> 1) It seems like I can never get my wood to fit properly around the catalyst which sits in the middle of the stove
> 2) Once you load the bottom pieces of wood into the stove it's hard to get the top pieces in without having the wood stick into the    damper area
> ...



Hmm 1.4 cu. ft. seems conservative to me.. I bet they only measure to the top of the cast iron plates... I fill the whole thing up here..

Ray


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## certified106 (Mar 1, 2011)

Allright, i want to make a disclaimer here my stove is a XL Dutchwest 1992 FA288 Model 2184 so it may not compare to the newer/older stoves.......... 
When I got home I measured the inside of the firebox and came up with an interior dimension of 24"x14"x13" this dimension was measured to the bottom of the catalyst. Now let me explain why I believe this measurment is correct for my stove ....As you look in the side door the catalyst only sits a 1/2" lower than the damper assembly so not much more wood could be added there. Then as you look to the right of the damper assembly the inner top has ribbing on it which sticks down and is only about an inch higher than the bottom of the catalyst (also the width between the catalyst and the front of the stove is about an inch two so the space there is negligible. The 24"x14"x13" equates to 2.51 cubic feet. I could probably eek out a little bit more room if I worked some small pieces into the gaps but the realistically I think my stove has roughly a 2.5 cubic foot firebox which is kind of dissapointing as I always thought it was more like 3 to 3.5 cubic foot.


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2011)

I agree the wood loading around the baffle is difficult and the wood interfering with the damper at times.  I usually put the bigger splits on the bottom and smaller ones on top.  I think I've seen those specs before and wondered who put them out?  VC does not put out specs on firebox size.  But some dealers have this information.  The 2461 does not apper to have a 1.4 cu ft firebox.  That would equal to a 12"x12"x18" firebox.  No matter how you look at it my firebox is at least 23"x11"x13" that would be subtracting the space the baffle occupies and then some.  Very conservatively the firebox would be 1.9 cu ft.  But as I stated I think it comes in at 2.0 cu ft.  Taking away all the little nooks and cranies that were mentioned.


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## certified106 (Mar 1, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I agree the wood loading around the baffle is difficult and the wood interfering with the damper at times.  I usually put the bigger splits on the bottom and smaller ones on top.  I think I've seen those specs before and wondered who put them out?  VC does not put out specs on firebox size.  But some dealers have this information.  The 2461 does not apper to have a 1.4 cu ft firebox.  That would equal to a 12"x12"x18" firebox.  No matter how you look at it my firebox is at least 23"x11"x13" that would be subtracting the space the baffle occupies and then some.  Very conservatively the firebox would be 1.9 cu ft.  But as I stated I think it comes in at 2.0 cu ft.  Taking away all the little nooks and cranies that were mentioned.



I agree with you that there is no way the firebox size on a large is only 1.4 cu ft.. Now I really want to know what the firebox size on a new XL is. At first i was dissapointed at the size after I measured it but after thinking about it I guess I'm actually a little more impressed with my burn times and the ability of the stove to more than meet our heating needs.


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## VCBurner (Mar 1, 2011)

certified106 said:
			
		

> Allright, i want to make a disclaimer here my stove is a XL Dutchwest 1992 FA288 Model 2184 so it may not compare to the newer/older stoves..........
> When I got home I measured the inside of the firebox and came up with an interior dimension of 24"x14"x13" this dimension was measured to the bottom of the catalyst. Now let me explain why I believe this measurment is correct for my stove ....As you look in the side door the catalyst only sits a 1/2" lower than the damper assembly so not much more wood could be added there. Then as you look to the right of the damper assembly the inner top has ribbing on it which sticks down and is only about an inch higher than the bottom of the catalyst (also the width between the catalyst and the front of the stove is about an inch two so the space there is negligible. The 24"x14"x13" equates to 2.51 cubic feet. I could probably eek out a little bit more room if I worked some small pieces into the gaps but the realistically I think my stove has roughly a 2.5 cubic foot firebox which is kind of dissapointing as I always thought it was more like 3 to 3.5 cubic foot.



No disclaimer necessary, certified.  Those older Dutchwests were really good stoves and were really ahead of their time in my eyes.  The names they give these stoves are a bit misleading.  My "Large" DW is nothing more than a medium sized stove.  The XL is also really a large stove.  A 3 or 3.5 cu ft firebox I think is really an XL stove in todays standards.  I don't think firebox size is the only determining factor of how much heat a stove can throw.  I may be comparing apples to oranges, but my old Surdiac stove has a firebox just over one cu ft. and it throws off up to 44,000 BTU's.  The thing throws off more heat than my DW, due to the very large ceramic coated steel heat exchanger that is on the back of the stove!  This exchanger nearly doubles the heat output of the small cast iron stove that is the core of the surdiac.  At the end of the day it is about what makes you happy and warm!

Thanks for all your thoughtfull posts!

Chris


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## VCBurner (Mar 10, 2011)

Here are some pictures I took today of the Dutchwest hard at work! After a long hiatus, it once again gets a chance at making us happy and warm. I bought a Defiant Encore 2190 and was going to put it in place of the DW, but upon inspection of the cat in it decided to re-install the old beast (I'm going to keep both and put one downstairs and one upstairs.) We are glad to have it back in after a long needed overhaul of the chimney set up and clean up. This chimney had not been cleaned since we moved in (2007) but had not been used for wood stoves before 2009. It always looked clean but I found some gnarly stuff behind the old fireplace damper! There are pictures of the dirty fireplace, new pipe extension, new pipe whole on the block off plate and explanation of the overhaul in the venting set up in my other thread:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/68912/P66/


Now here are some pictures of the DW in action today!


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## Pine Knot (Mar 10, 2011)

The "cat cage" does get in the way of getting a full load of wood. I load the big ends first on the bottom sticks and the small end first on the upper pieces. This seems to help get a little more wood in.


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## VCBurner (Mar 10, 2011)

Pine Knot said:
			
		

> The "cat cage" does get in the way of getting a full load of wood. I load the big ends first on the bottom sticks and the small end first on the upper pieces. This seems to help get a little more wood in.


That weird looking cage is actually a baffle!  We should all be glad we have such a strong one in our stoves.  Too many people around here have a tough time with flimsy baffles and having to replace them time and time again.  But, I agree, it takes some space away from the firebox.  I still get long hours out of a proper load of hard woods, though.  I load the big splits at the bottom, like you do. The XL Dutchwest should give owners a little more room in the firebox for added burn times and throwing in big splits.  It too has the baffle on top, which to me is an advantage.  Today I loaded the stove at 11:45am, not even all the way, turned the air downand it's cruising for an 8 hour daytime low burn.  Nice secondary ghost flames on the top of the firebox right now and a glowing cat to go with it.  Temperature in the hallway is 72.  It was 66, by the time I started the stove, after having the frond door open for the boys to go out to the bus, the temp fell from 71 at 7am to 66 at 11:45am.  I loaded the stove last night at 12am and still had coals to start a fire at 11:45am.  This is almost 12 hours between reloads.  No match restart.  I love this stove.


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## raybonz (Mar 11, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Here are some pictures I took today of the Dutchwest hard at work! After a long hiatus, it once again gets a chance at making us happy and warm. I bought a Defiant Encore 2190 and was going to put it in place of the DW, but upon inspection of the cat in it decided to re-install the old beast (I'm going to keep both and put one downstairs and one upstairs.) We are glad to have it back in after a long needed overhaul of the chimney set up and clean up. This chimney had not been cleaned since we moved in (2007) but had not been used for wood stoves before 2009. It always looked clean but I found some gnarly stuff behind the old fireplace damper! There are pictures of the dirty fireplace, new pipe extension, new pipe whole on the block off plate and explanation of the overhaul in the venting set up in my other thread:
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/68912/P66/
> 
> 
> Now here are some pictures of the DW in action today!



Great looking fire Chris! Cat stoves are capable of nice looking fire too! Now that you've had the Sud Chemie SS cat for a while how is it performing?

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 11, 2011)

I knew you'd like the pics Ray! I was on cloud nine last night after a week without a stove burning in the house. That fire was the first one after a much needed upgrade and clean up. The cat continues to provide easy operation and burns up all the smoke on low choked down fires (unlike the one in the pictures! ;-) .) Actually I loaded the firebox after taking the pictures around midnight and didn't need to reload until almost noon the next day! (today) I cut some big uglies out in the left over pile, some oak v's that were impossible to split but were pretty dry and had been cut since 08/09 winter. They were under the tarp and were really tough to chain saw into manageable pieces. One of them was a v shaped fork with two 20" trunks that had been cut close to the crotch. It was a groan to cut, but burned really nice on low all night! I still have a 30" but about 36" long from the same tree. It has to be cut into manageable pieces too! I'll have to sharpen the chain before attempting to destroy that thing into burnable chunks. I'm glad I have the 2255 turbo, it would not have been possible in the same amount of time with a lesser saw! A piece of that oak tree is simmering in the fire right now! The air is shut almost all the way and small lazy flames emanating from it on top of a lightly glowing bed of coals, life is good!


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## raybonz (Mar 11, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I knew you'd like the pics Ray! I was on cloud nine last night after a week without a stove burning in the house. That fire was the first one after a much needed upgrade and clean up. The cat continues to provide easy operation and burns up all the smoke on low choked down fires (unlike the one in the pictures! ;-) .) Actually I loaded the firebox after taking the pictures and didn't need to reload until almost noon the next day! (today) I cut some big uglies out in the left over pile, some oak v's that were impossible to split but were pretty dry and had been cut since 08/09 winter. They were under the tarp and were really tough to chain saw into manageable pieces. One of them was a v shaped fork with two 20" trunks that had been cut close to the crotch. It was a groan to cut, but burned really nice on low all night! I still have a 30" but about 36" long from the same tree. It has to be cut into manageable pieces too! I'll have to sharpen the chain before attempting to destroy that thing into burnable chunks. I'm glad I have the 2255 turbo, it would not have been possible in the same amount of time with a lesser saw! A piece of that oak tree is simmering in the fire right now! The air is shut almost all the way and small lazy flames emanating from it on top of a lightly glowing bed of coals, life is good!



I saw all those pics of the work you did and it looks like it should help make the stove run better.. Just imagine the difference a full insulated liner will make! I am a big fan of the 2461 as you know so yeah I smiled at those pics..  I too had some gnarly oak crotches which I chain sawed as splitting was impossible for me but worth the effort! BTW what the heck is 2255 turbo? My stove is purring away here as I type this message and it has been running very nicely this year and I am keeping an eye on a good deal for a 2461 as I feel they can go the distance like this stove.. As much as I like the looks of your new VC I would rather have a cast iron interior.. Hopefully you'll be OK with the new stove but personally I would locate the DW where the critical heat requirement is needed most.. This way your main house will be kept warm reliably in the event there is an issue with the VC you'll still be warm.. 

Ray


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## VCBurner (Mar 11, 2011)

raybonz said:
			
		

> I saw all those pics of the work you did and it looks like it should help make the stove run better.. Just imagine the difference a full insulated liner will make! I am a big fan of the 2461 as you know so yeah I smiled at those pics..  I too had some gnarly oak crotches which I chain sawed as splitting was impossible for me but worth the effort! BTW what the heck is 2255 turbo? My stove is purring away here as I type this message and it has been running very nicely this year and I am keeping an eye on a good deal for a 2461 as I feel they can go the distance like this stove.. As much as I like the looks of your new VC I would rather have a cast iron interior.. Hopefully you'll be OK with the new stove but personally I would locate the DW where the critical heat requirement is needed most.. This way your main house will be kept warm reliably in the event there is an issue with the VC you'll still be warm..
> 
> Ray



Yes, I can't wait to put an end to this liner issue once and for all!  What I did yesterday was just a bandaid, but hopefully it'll help untill the liner is purchased.  As soon as I get some extra $, the liner will be the next big $ stove related purchase.  I'm glad you were pleased with the pics.  The 2255 turbo is like a Jonsered version of the Husky 455 Rancher turbo charged.  It is made by Husqvarna for Jonsered.  I couldn't justify the cost of a real pro saw considering this one ran over $400 on sale.  It's the saw I bought last year to process some wood that was cut down by the power lines in the neighborhood. The only complaint I have is that it is pretty heavy, but I'm young still, many more years with this beast I hope!  Maybe then, I'll be able to buy a real professional saw that is lighter.  But then again, who knows, maybe I'll switch to pellets!  :gulp:  If I were you I'd hang on to your stove as long as you can, as I feel the only thing mine has on yours is a bigger window and air washed glass.  In fact there are some advantages to your stove, I'd be willing to bet!  As far as the Encore, it has not passed any tests yet!  It will need a new cat before it even comes close to trying to compete for space with the DW!  Then, I'll see where it'll be going, but my guess is down in the basement.  I'm thinking of putting the heat reclaimer into my furnace connectors, as this will be a much better use of the Magic Heat.  It'll take care of 70% of the heating needs of the basement!  It'll come on just when the tankless hot water kicks on and occasionally if we decide to run the furnace for heat.  The 750 sq ft down there will be easily heated by the MH and an oil filled radiator in case we decide to save up on some wood.  So the basement may be the best place for the Encore, but we'll see once the new cat is purchased.   Then the true test will begin.  If all the numbers are right, the Encore should outperform the DW slightly.  Slightly more heat with slightly longer burn times.  I'll tell you this, though:  I was really bummed by the state of the cat in that stove, and wasn't impressed with how tough it was to get the secondary burn chamber appart for clean up.  The DW is a breeze to clean up.  Four bolts on mine and you are there.  The Encore's cat is easy to reach, but getting into the rest of the secondary chamber is like pulling out four molars! :gulp: 

Take care Ray!

Chris


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## Ring (Mar 12, 2011)

wood-fan-atic said:
			
		

> Hey y'all. I have this stove sitting and awaiting a rebuild. If anyone knows of a place that can completely rebuild my large VC Ductchwest 2461cat - please let me know. Thanks!



Contact this guy, Tony Guido, he's located in Flushing, decent prices because he works out of his house, he's a retired old tree surgeon from Syracuse NY. He'll come to you and give you a price on the spot. Make sure you send him pictures so he knows your model. 

anthongtigre@gmail.com


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## wood-fan-atic (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks SO much. I'll get in touch with him today.


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## VCBurner (Sep 10, 2011)

I thought I should say goodbye to the DW officially on this thread.  It felt like a long journey, though it was brief.  These past two seasons have been a joy with this stove.  It kept us warm and me entertained for many Winter nights (caveman TV.) * To all of you who contributed to my learning curve, a big thank you!! * This also is a farewell to wood burning.  We had to move out of the old house and rented a new house which has no chimney.  So the only solution is to go to pellets.  Wood burning will always be in my heart and mind.  I sold the Dutchwest about three weeks ago, it was hard to see it go.  A great deal to the buyer, the $400 dollars came in handy during the move.  I could have tried for $600 but it would have taken a lot lon ger to sell and we just didn't have the time.  I listed it one evening and the next morning it was sold by 9am.  The buyer also got the new blower and SS cat I put in late last season. IMO, there was not another stove for $400 out there, that was as good as that one.  Someday, when we own our own house, maybe I'll go the wood way again!  The Dutchwest will remain a highly recommended stove as far as I'm concearned, even with all its flaws and quirks.  Lots of those flaws I found to be operator, wood or chimney related.  It is an old EPA rated system by today's standards but that is what makes this stove so good.  It has withstood the test of time, evolving slightly from the old federal airtights in the by CDW in the 70's to the new Dutchwest by Vermont Castings of today.  Their price remains one of the lowest on the market for a cast iron EPA rated catalytic stove.  Their efficiency and EPA rating remain among the best in the market.  

I will be glad to answer any DW related questions even though I no longer own the stove.  I'm still hopefull that this thread will help other DW owners master their stove.

I will miss watching the flames through the arched windows shining through the Maggie Simpson andirons.   :lol: Trying to stuff the firebox just right for a good overnight burn and splitting wood in the dead of winter!

I'd consider the DW an old friend, it will be missed!


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## raybonz (Sep 11, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> I thought I should say goodbye to the DW officially on this thread.  It felt like a long journey, though it was brief.  These past two seasons have been a joy with this stove.  It kept us warm and me entertained for many Winter nights (caveman TV.) * To all of you who contributed to my learning curve, a big thank you!! * This also is a farewell to wood burning.  We had to move out of the old house and rented a new house which has no chimney.  So the only solution is to go to pellets.  Wood burning will always be in my heart and mind.  I sold the Dutchwest about three weeks ago, it was hard to see it go.  A great deal to the buyer, the $400 dollars came in handy during the move.  I could have tried for $600 but it would have taken a lot lon ger to sell and we just didn't have the time.  I listed it one evening and the next morning it was sold by 9am.  The buyer also got the new blower and SS cat I put in late last season. IMO, there was not another stove for $400 out there, that was as good as that one.  Someday, when we own our own house, maybe I'll go the wood way again!  The Dutchwest will remain a highly recommended stove as far as I'm concearned, even with all its flaws and quirks.  Lots of those flaws I found to be operator, wood or chimney related.  It is an old EPA rated system by today's standards but that is what makes this stove so good.  It has withstood the test of time, evolving slightly from the old federal airtights in the by CDW in the 70's to the new Dutchwest by Vermont Castings of today.  Their price remains one of the lowest on the market for a cast iron EPA rated catalytic stove.  Their efficiency and EPA rating remain among the best in the market.
> 
> I will be glad to answer any DW related questions even though I no longer own the stove.  I'm still hopefull that this thread will help other DW owners master their stove.
> 
> ...



Hey Chris someday you will own your own place and I am sure you'll burn wood again.. I understand how you feel with the DW, I too had a long relationship with my 20+ yr. old CDW and its last duty was to serve as a place to place my Coleman stove for cooking after we lost power during Irene.The CDW was off the hearth with the T-5 in her place. I took a couple pics of my old friend performing her last duty as a safe place to cook with my Coleman stove.. Life goes on and the old girl has found a new home and now I will be acquainted with the T-5..It's funny we really do develop an attachment to our stoves because they are part of our lives 24/7 year round.. They keep us warm even when the lights go out and grace us with their beauty when they rest in the warmer weather always at the ready to warm our bones and even cook our food.. I am sure many of you know what I mean in this post and have similar sentiments.. The new T-5 indeed has big shoes to fill!

Ray


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## VCBurner (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks for the post Ray.  You were instrumental in my decision to buy the DW.  Now we both get to start a season with different stoves!  It should be a good learning experience.  I'll make sure to post some pics of the new stove on this thread when I get it installed.  Come visit the pellet mill sometime!  I'll be hanging there and here this coming season.


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## raybonz (Sep 11, 2011)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Thanks for the post Ray.  You were instrumental in my decision to buy the DW.  Now we both get to start a season with different stoves!  It should be a good learning experience.  I'll make sure to post some pics of the new stove on this thread when I get it installed.  Come visit the pellet mill sometime!  I'll be hanging there and here this coming season.



OK sounds good I'll check out the pellet forum.. I thought that stove you was going to look at got sold, did the deal fall through so you get a shot at it again?

Good Luck,

Ray


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## VCBurner (Sep 11, 2011)

Hey Ray check out this thread it'll explain everything: 
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/78438/P0/

I got a text message from a person with a NH area code saying "thanks for your interest but the stove was sold."  Things were pretty hectic here, we were between the two houses, trying to unpack essentials here and clean up the old house.  I had responded to quite a few adds inquiring about stoves.  The seller, who seemed like and turned out to be a nice guy, had agreed to take a down payment and extend for a couple of weeks to take the remaining sum of $850.  I was disappointed when I got the text but thought I'd have a chance to research some more and find another suitable stove.  

I discussed this call (text) on the thread saying the guy called and said it was sold.  It turns out I was wrong, it was another NH guy who texted and the stove was still for sale.  The funny thing is, the only reason I found out was because the seller joined Hearth.com and made his first post calling me out for saying he called to say the stove was sold.  His site name is "Enviro." He thought I had stood him up and simply did not show to give the deposit.  The whole thing plays out in the thread linked above.  Including some member's advice and one member who turned out to be a mediator of sorts, called DexterDay.  I understood how upset the seller must have been to find out I was discussing the situation online and doing what he thought was lying as an excuse for not showing.  I extended an apology and explained what happened and told him my end of the deal still stood if he was interested.  We ended up working the whole deal out yesterday when I went for a nice 1 1/2 hour ride up to NH to give him a deposit.  He turned out to be a great guy, knowledgeable about pellet stoves among other things.  I was at his house for over an hour and a half.  He told me how he discovered my thread while searching Enviro Windsor reviews on google.  A picture of his stove and livingroom came up when he looked at the link that was listed.  My thread discussing the situation.  He said he could barely wait to post a remark, moving his fingers as fast as possible to sign up on Hearth.com.  He was ripped!  But remained composed and called me out and the rest is now history.  I pick up the stove on October 1st.  

The Enviro Windsor stove was a beauty, its almost flawless.  He was the original buyer and kept it in great shape.  I'll probably use the touch up paint to cover a few minor scratches on the front door.  The glass has a small crack on the lower left corner, which I'll replace eventually, but it does not affect the operation of the stove.  There is some sign of rust on the steel that surrounds the hot air outports, I'll probably lightly sand and paint over or just use some stove polish to cover it up.  That stove polish is great, it makes black stoves look brand new.  I gave the old DW a good coat before the new owners came to see it.  She looked as good as new


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## neumsky (Jan 4, 2012)

VCBurner said:
			
		

> Before you read on please beware that this is a very long thread.  I intended to keep this as diary as stated in the title.  This will help me to realize its recorded history and to learn from it.  Also, I hope it'll serve others who are also learning to burn this stove or similar stoves.  Thank you for reading and adding to this thread! Edited on 2/21/11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what does the VC mean?  Jeff


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## WoodpileOCD (Jan 4, 2012)

Pretty sure it's Vermont Castings


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## VCBurner (Jan 4, 2012)

At the time I joined this forum I was buying my first EPA rated stove. I had been heating with two   other stoves one from 1936, the other a 1980 Surdiac, great little heater! I had already put a deposit down on a Vermont Castings Dutwest 2461.  They just recently became part of the Monessen line, VC's mother company. They are sort of a headliner in Monessen shops, where at VC dealers they tended to be outshined by the fancier looking enamel clad Encores, Defiants ...

As I said before, Jeff, I would highly recommend the DW 2461. This does not mean that other stoves would not be suitable for your situation just as the DW would.
Good luck!


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## neumsky (Jan 4, 2012)

Geez...now I'm confused...I was told 2 weeks ago that Dutchwest WAS being built by the Vermont Casting company! I've got a brochure that has Monssen Hearth Systems on it and than underneath it it has www.vermontcastings.com.


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## VCBurner (Jan 4, 2012)

neumsky said:
			
		

> Geez...now I'm confused...I was told 2 weeks ago that Dutchwest WAS being built by the Vermont Casting company! I've got a brochure that has Monssen Hearth Systems on it and than underneath it it has www.vermontcastings.com.


Yes, Dutchwest stoves have been made by VC since the eighties. They will continue to be made the same exact way at the same exact plant, by the same people. Monessen owns Vermont Castings. The only change is they will not have the name Vermont Castings in the back of the stove. They will now have the name Monessen as the brand. Same manufactureres, same stove since about 1993 as pertains to the 2460, 2461 and 2462 models.  Other models like the non cat I don't know much about.


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