# Wood stoves the cause of depression according to this article lol.



## WiscWoody (Jan 2, 2021)

I ran across this The Guardian article online and I had to chuckle that it said wood burning is the root of all that ails us lol and they hoped that politicians “raise awareness” of the harms of wood burning (they mean ban it) What do you think about the article? Up here many heat with wood since hardwood is plentiful here and I doubt we have more diabetes from it. I’d say our diets that are loaded with sugar is the culprit behind that!









						Avoid using wood burning stoves if possible, warn health experts — Guardian US
					

Charity calls for people to use alternative, less polluting heating and cooking options if they can




					apple.news


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## PaulOinMA (Jan 2, 2021)

Nan and I just did start toasting marshmallows in our insert this year and she's been making s'mores.


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## jatoxico (Jan 2, 2021)

I'm glad I don't live in an area that is subject to inversions,  burn bans and the rest of it, although air quality can be an issue. I don't side with the ban wood burning crowd at all but at the same time I don't pretend there's never any reason for concern. I'm fortunate we don't have a a high density of wood burners because like it or not particulates are bad for health and can be a real problem if present in high concentrations.


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## WoodBurnerInWI (Jan 2, 2021)

Jeeze that's the second article from the Guardian that's bashed wood stoves! Their article on indoor wood burning devices causing indoor pollution yes that is something that is inherently true if one burns wood in their home (either with a stove or fireplace) and can certainly be reduced with good practices and maybe air purification units. But this article is just ridiculous if they want to point fingers at burning wood as somehow causing depression


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## ABMax24 (Jan 2, 2021)

As with most media organizations The Guardian has a slight skew to it's articles drawn roughly along political lines.

However it is the title of this thread that is most misleading. The article does not state wood stoves are the cause of depression, it states air pollution can increase depression. Here is the quote from the article:

_"But a growing body of research reveals air pollution may be damaging every organ in the body, with effects including heart and lung disease, diabetes, dementia, reduced intelligence and increased depression. Children and the unborn may suffer the most."_


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## WiscWoody (Jan 2, 2021)

ABMax24 said:


> As with most media organizations The Guardian has a slight skew to it's articles drawn roughly along political lines.
> 
> However it is the title of this thread that is most misleading. The article does not state wood stoves are the cause of depression, it states air pollution can increase depression. Here is the quote from the article:
> 
> _"But a growing body of research reveals air pollution may be damaging every organ in the body, with effects including heart and lung disease, diabetes, dementia, reduced intelligence and increased depression. Children and the unborn may suffer the most."_


Yes I did read it again and I noticed it said that air pollution was the cause of depression, diabetes and other ailments. I’ll have to see if I can change the title of the thread.


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## kennyp2339 (Jan 3, 2021)

2 different views from the same guy here, first view is that the UK does not have the same air standards as us in the USA, so there maybe more pollution issues with stoves made the same time as us. 
Second view and its more then likely to stir up the pot, but just like our latest measures in gun control here in the USA, use the media first to create the narrative, convince the reader that there's a problem, then push an agenda through whether it makes sense or not.


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## PJ41 (Jan 3, 2021)

I also read the Guardian article...I can burn wood or I can burn oil... I may be mistaken, but I gotta believe burning wood is less of a hazard.


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## jatoxico (Jan 4, 2021)

In regards to your local air quality, burning wood to heat your house is worse than burning oil.


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## SpaceBus (Jan 4, 2021)

jatoxico said:


> In regards to your local air quality, burning wood to heat your house is worse than burning oil.


What is a Silky Katana boy? I just noticed that in your signature.


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## WiscWoody (Jan 4, 2021)

I’m surprised that the indoor air quality is worse when burning wood in a wood stove since the stibe would be drawing air into the house for the burn process and the natural draft of the chimney out of the house. I know when I scrape the ashes into the ash bin of my stove there’s likely some very fine ash that floats into the area and I run my furnace fan for awhile while I take care of the ash in the stove and afterwards and I use a high MERV rated furnace filter to hopefully catch most of the ash dust.


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## firefighterjake (Jan 4, 2021)

Listening to the sound of my oil boiler turn on depresses me . . .


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## jatoxico (Jan 4, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> What is a Silky Katana boy? I just noticed that in your signature.


It's a Japanese hand saw used for pruning and other cutting tasks. Quality hand tool and suuuper sharp. It folds but when open it looks a bit sword like so I guess that's where the name comes from.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 4, 2021)

Using my wood stove is my cure for wintertime blues or you could call it cabin fever. Nothing like a hot fire on a cold day that warms right to the bones. Dont believe everything you read just cuz its in the newspaper. Articles are only as credible as the authors.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 4, 2021)

firefighterjake said:


> Listening to the sound of my oil boiler turn on depresses me . . .


Or opening a $600 electric bill.


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## PJ41 (Jan 4, 2021)

jatoxico said:


> In regards to your local air quality, burning wood to heat your house is worse than burning oil.


I stand corrected, thank you!


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## WiscWoody (Jan 4, 2021)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Or opening a $600 electric bill.


My 12 month electric cost for the last year was $507 so yes I’m sure a bill that high wouldn’t be good! How come so high?


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## tlc1976 (Jan 5, 2021)

If you can burn it clean like small fires with good airflow then it’s fine. But many people load it up and turn down the air to get through the day or night. And if it smolders it  can lead to poor indoor air quality. Guilty as charged, we do what we gotta do.

There might be people who are broke and depressed already and all they can afford is wood. But then again there are plenty of people who can’t afford heating bills of all sources. And people who happily burn wood.

I think the media doesn’t want to glorify burning wood because it’s a way of being independent from commercially manufactured fuels. There’s not much money to be made or taxed, most is just cash on the side to the supplier. From what I know anyway.


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## jatoxico (Jan 5, 2021)

This article is just information, nothing more. I don't think researchers or the media cares why people burn wood, just that it can be a significant source of fine particles that _have_ _been_ shown to have adverse health consequences.

EU countries have been trying to reduce particulates for some time and have been going from source to source and adjusting policy in an attempt to reduce overall atmospheric particulate pollution. So it's natural to see this research come out of their universities and agencies.

If you enjoy your wood stove like I do, be aware of the potential risk and take reasonable appropriate steps to minimize your exposure. And be happy if you don't live in an area that is either too densely populated or has too many fellow wood burners so you can continue to do it without creating an unacceptable health risk.


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## Sawset (Jan 5, 2021)

The picture in the article reminds me of most larger cities in the US back in the 70s.  Fortunatly we've come away from most of that.  It takes but a moment trailing behind a vintage car to smell what it was like.  Add coal and wood to the mix - I'm rural and can get away with it.  Down town, probably not, and with good reason.


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## Seasoned Oak (Jan 5, 2021)

WiscWoody said:


> My 12 month electric cost for the last year was $507 so yes I’m sure a bill that high wouldn’t be good! How come so high?


An example of a bill after installing electric resistance baseboard heat.


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## begreen (Jan 6, 2021)

Folks in England might be a bit more sensitive to the dangers of air pollution. In 1952 during a major inversion and dense fog event, the air in London became terribly polluted by coal home fires and coal-fired electrical plants. The official tally for the 5 day smog event was estimated at 4-5000 dead, but recent research indicates it may have been upward of 12,000 people. This changed public awareness about the connection between air pollution and health and lead to clean air legislation by 1956.
There still were other reminders. During the London fog in December 1957 smoke and sulfur dioxide concentrations reached levels comparable to 1952 and there were 760–1000 deaths. There was another event in 1962 that resulted in 750 deaths.

In 1948 there was a deadly smog event in Denora, PA that affected half the town, but this has largely been forgotten.


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## Grizzerbear (Jan 7, 2021)

Wood smoke makes me warm and fuzzy feeling inside so I guess I'm a scientific anomaly as far as the quardian is concerned.


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## fbelec (Jan 13, 2021)

informative maybe. we heat because we are cold and want to be comfortable. burn gas the air gets acidic. burn oil to many particulates. burn coal to many particulates. burn wood to many particulates. nuke we all know the risks.  electric comes back to what ever the plant is using for fuel. so what do we heat with???????????


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## Medic21 (Jan 13, 2021)

The Gaurdian also said that Donald Trump would never be President back in 2016....

sorry, couldn’t resist.....


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## Terry Slade (Feb 19, 2022)

WiscWoody said:


> I ran across this The Guardian article online and I had to chuckle that it said wood burning is the root of all that ails us lol and they hoped that politicians “raise awareness” of the harms of wood burning (they mean ban it) What do you think about the article? Up here many heat with wood since hardwood is plentiful here and I doubt we have more diabetes from it. I’d say our diets that are loaded with sugar is the culprit behind that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





jatoxico said:


> I'm glad I don't live in an area that is subject to inversions,  burn bans and the rest of it, although air quality can be an issue. I don't side with the ban wood burning crowd at all but at the same time I don't pretend there's never any reason for concern. I'm fortunate we don't have a a high density of wood burners because like it or not particulates are bad for health and can be a real problem if present in high concentrations.


jatoxico,
               You are very fortunate to not live in an area with thermal inversions. I live near Mt-Tremblant, Quebec- an area that was much like a paradise a mere 25 years ago. At that time, I stayed with a fellow who heated with wood. It never occurred to me what a toxic nightmare the very air we breathe would become. No opinion or belief can alter that reality. I have many close friends who burn wood for heat and treasure them... even when I recognize the true enemy.                                                                                                                                           
----------------If you have the courage to face the future; PLEASE read on!---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fact: Montreal has found it necessary to ban burning during smog warnings.  2022 has been cold... Persistent smog warnings from Environment Canada and Environment Quebec. These have been the most extensive pollution warnings in our history. The area included is VAST! From west of Hamilton, Ontario past east of Quebec City. North of Mt-Laurier and Lac-St-Jean towards the south into Vermont. This is alarming and will only get worse. MUCH WORSE! Sales of wood stoves, chain-saws, wood-splitters and 4-wheelers have gone through the roof. (as well as  many, many new chimneys) Vermonters have also been harvesting for wood-fired electricity generating plants. (always installed in LESS than affluent neighborhoods) 
       Smog= fog and smoke. It has been VERY cold and dry for several weeks. No fog... SMOKE and plenty of it. It is common knowledge that the valley of St-Sauveur  has become toxic every week-end when cottagers arrive. Lately, entire valleys up here are filled with a thick blue haze.  I have been a pro ski-patroller at Mt-Tremblant since 1994.  At around 1500-1800 feet vertical there is a second layer, it burns the eyes and grips the lungs. This layer smells strongly of wood smoke; the odor is unmistakeable. ( back in the eighties I helped with my friend`s chimney sweeping business)  Since covid, it has become VERY obvious how wood smoke has taken over as the largest source of air pollution. Economic fear for the future, plus more time on people`s hands = mini mountains of fire-wood on every third lawn.  As the snow melts in the spring;  layer after layer of greasy soot appears. I wipe it off my ski bases every couple of days to improve glide. This black grime reeks the same as our chimney brushes did when wet. These soot layers are hastening the melt... exposing more earth to absorb sun-light and further speed the melt.
   I live in a village with very closely spaced homes. We are in a river canyon with steep 70-90 foot banks. For 15 years I have lived with my kitchen wall 14 feet from one neighbor`s wood chimney. Fortunately for me the wind usually blows the other direction and spills over Richard`s house. Unfortunately for Richard who has never smoked in his life, he now struggles to walk across the street due to C.O.P.D. His doctor advised him to avoid any smoke at all costs. He is too ill to move away. Unfortunately for me... 3 years ago, some dude from the city bought the house up-wind from me and installed a wood-stove (up-stairs, less efficient than in the basement.)
This man is a fanatical believer in these EPA stoves and informed me it does not pollute. I pointed out to him how the siding of my home is streaked with gray soot since his arrival. (photographic proof... before and after his stove installation) When confronted with this
evidence he told me wood-smoke is natural and suggested that I move if it bothers me. He also told me that he has asthma. (bit of twisted logic there) I have suffered from headaches and dizzy spells for the last six weeks. I wake up congested and find black soot on kleenex when I blow my nose. My eyes burn, my throat is sore, my joints ache. I cannot concentrate for very long and am filled with
an anger that I never knew was possible. I choose to not cross-country ski on many of my days off and rather heed smog bulletins.
An old friend my age (fellow xc skier) took  heart attack and died last week. His neighbor is also a true wood heating fanatic.
I am finding that I envy him now that he has escaped the poisonous gasses. I have only taken one day off work despite being exhausted from lack of sleep due to headaches that keep me awake. 
    It is very sad that that governments are reluctant to increase subsidies for improved insulation and thermal pumps. Plenty of dough available for so-called green EPA wood stoves.  Truly, I wish my new neighbor would simply smother me with a pillow instead of slowly murdering me. My life has become an absolute nightmare. What price can be put on clean air?  Many people have told me that it is more about that ancient charm of the hearth. Too bad there is always a chimney to share the sinister part of it with innocent people.
      So very happy that I don`t not have children to fear for.
     Respect and Gratitude to anyone who had the courage to read this tragic mini-novel.
 Best wishes jataxico, I get the impression you are a wise and kind soul.
        Please know that I would be very saddened to learn if one day wood -burning was banned during power failures.
Keep in mind that Montreal does make an exception to burn bans in those situations.
   Non-burners do not want their neighbor to freeze; we simply want to breathe clean air.
Please enjoy this beauty from The Hollies.


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## WiscWoody (Feb 19, 2022)

There’s a lot of wood burners in the area i live in since hardwood is plentiful and free or cheap to buy. The whole county’s population is just 16,000 so we aren’t on top of each other by any means and most of us burners use EPA stoves nowadays I would think so I never notice any real wood smoke pollution hanging in the air but I have seen some outdoor wood boilers putting out a lot of smoke and there are a few houses I’ve gone by and thought it was a shame to see them bellowing out wood smoke that could have been burned for more heat instead of let out into the environment.
Great song and video, I first saw it 15 years ago or so and I thought where’d they get that middle school guitar player….? 😂


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## clancey (Feb 19, 2022)

I liked the article and we are entering a new age here and there are a lot of new major problems coming up in the way of energy and I can understand both sides. I think that the stove makers should take a heavy look at this issue and solve the problem. They have "cats" that really reduce the pollution but they should work on something where you not buying or fixing a cat so often and you have to fool with it too in order to keep it clean. With our technology of today they should maybe create a piece of equipment that would "zap" the bad elements of the smoke burning out of the burning process so that one could continue to burn safely for everyone involved worldwide. Or maybe even have some sort of chemical that would soak in the bad stuff--just suggesting here but it is a problem for the future. So the bottom line for me would be to fix this problem and this is up to the stove makers to solve. People are so "worried" about fossil fuels and I happen to be among the ones who truly appreciate the positives of fossil fuels and the companies are all revamping their burning processes but I say there are real dangers ahead in the way of "all electric processes". , especially solar and 5G that people seem to be ignoring because they figure that nothing can be done...Problems that are to be solved in the future all start with a major problem and somehow people seem to be solving the problems as they emerge. The fossil fuel companies are trying to clean up their act and I say: "Bless the fossil fuels" as well as "just work on fixing the problem of wood burning stoves and the makers of stoves should come forward and really attack the issue of maintaining good air and health for its people. Wood burning can be improved..I am one of those people who can "hear" the hum of the energies and they say less than 20% of the people worldwide can hear these noises but the thing that people are not aware of it is warming up the planet these new energies and this is the extinction of humankind and in the future people will seriously look at this issue of 5G and all the rest. With even writing about 5G on here I was called a "tin hat" as well as suggesting to put tin foil on my head among other things and all these issues about "fuels" should be addressed to continue to use them but "fix the problems" that they bring forward to humanity...So one could begin with the stove manufacture people...or these other companies (electric and gas ) should "decrease" the price of having enough energy for daily living because it seems a heck of a lot cleaner within the homes and in the air outside...Solar and electric vehicles have their place but they also have "bad results" in the way of health for the animals as well as people because I say---these new energies 5 G and the computer technology industry will make our planet just like the other planets not being able to be lived on and dead planets for all to see.. Its just a matter of "have we passed the point of no return" for own very own wonderful planet...How many planets has humankind lived on in the past and they are now just being just "recycled" and that for me is our "earths story" as well. Why even in the future humankind will figure out a way to just move a planet and we might be able to have a lot more "earths"...and let the other "earths" rest and become clean again...But right now stove makers should fix the problem just like the fossil fuel people are trying to fix the problem..I love all energies and this is the future and I love my wood burning stove as well...I am a coal lover too and they at least are trying to clean up their act...old mrs clancey


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## stoveliker (Feb 19, 2022)

"they should maybe create a piece of equipment that would "zap" the bad elements of the smoke burning out of the burning process"

They already did. It's called secondary burn tubes or a cat. And it works. But just like with a car, you have to put in the right fuel, and treat it the way the manufacturer tells you is the best way otherwise it might break or may not work. Here that is the right chimney system, and dry wood, and only wood.

I do agree that it would be nice if cats could be developed that last longer. But given the variability in fuel condition and operating temperature (as compared to the rather constant fuel and temp of a car cat), I don't hold my breath for that.


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## clancey (Feb 20, 2022)

I have faith in the energy companies fixing the problem of pollution and I am sure they are all working on a solution right now...But when you get into solar and the "higher energies" to me this sounds like "doom" for all living things: Our whales, our crabs and fish of the sea, and especially humankind who will be decreased in number and I believe "with intent". It's a funny thing when they quickly--I mean "quick" put up all the 5G towers here in Colorado  all the advertisements on television started announcing new vitamins and new medicines and most of these new medicines and therapy all had to do with the coming side effects that are directly the side effects of the "higher energies",  Hearing problems, skin problems, breathing problems, blood problems, and depression problems as well as a lack of energy and a lack of sleep with a nervousness of people that are just plain "jumpy" with a loss of patience and much more anger and road rage too. Our birds are dying and falling in clumps-hundreds of them straight down into the ground..Our whales are beaching themselves and I think it is the noise five G in the oceans and radar that the different countries are blasting under and over in our seas, even on land our precious bees are dying. So getting back to "tubes" in the stoves and imagine that these can really get clogged up and for the common person with no dyi skills who own stoves and the point that I wish to make is they should make these stoves more easy to work on or have another "complete system change" on how to make them easy as well as collecting the pollutants in some kind of a dedicated system, maybe some different type of filters that you can just throw away or plug into a tank of water that could be reused into something else. There is a lot of smart people in this world and I have faith in the stove makers to come up with better solutions so that we all can enjoy our wood burning and not impact other people as well. I do not believe that the "cats" are the best that they could offer in regard the total way that one has to maintain them in order to keep the air cleaner and as you pointed to with the abuse of them by the heat that causes them to not last that long and have to be replaced after so many years as well as a continue cleaning and "don't bend them for they will fall apart having to clean them with a soft material so as not to disturb the working elements within them and most people are not dyi minded to begin with. I know there is a better way and I know that the stove companies in the future will solve the problem of dirty air as well as all the energy companies for they are working on problems to have cleaner fuel because they are going to have to do this for people to survive with good health and while I am on this subject the countries can get together and clean up our oceans too in a mass way. Pipe dreams..clancey


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## bholler (Feb 20, 2022)

clancey said:


> I have faith in the energy companies fixing the problem of pollution and I am sure they are all working on a solution right now...But when you get into solar and the "higher energies" to me this sounds like "doom" for all living things: Our whales, our crabs and fish of the sea, and especially humankind who will be decreased in number and I believe "with intent". It's a funny thing when they quickly--I mean "quick" put up all the 5G towers here in Colorado  all the advertisements on television started announcing new vitamins and new medicines and most of these new medicines and therapy all had to do with the coming side effects that are directly the side effects of the "higher energies",  Hearing problems, skin problems, breathing problems, blood problems, and depression problems as well as a lack of energy and a lack of sleep with a nervousness of people that are just plain "jumpy" with a loss of patience and much more anger and road rage too. Our birds are dying and falling in clumps-hundreds of them straight down into the ground..Our whales are beaching themselves and I think it is the noise five G in the oceans and radar that the different countries are blasting under and over in our seas, even on land our precious bees are dying. So getting back to "tubes" in the stoves and imagine that these can really get clogged up and for the common person with no dyi skills who own stoves and the point that I wish to make is they should make these stoves more easy to work on or have another "complete system change" on how to make them easy as well as collecting the pollutants in some kind of a dedicated system, maybe some different type of filters that you can just throw away or plug into a tank of water that could be reused into something else. There is a lot of smart people in this world and I have faith in the stove makers to come up with better solutions so that we all can enjoy our wood burning and not impact other people as well. I do not believe that the "cats" are the best that they could offer in regard the total way that one has to maintain them in order to keep the air cleaner and as you pointed to with the abuse of them by the heat that causes them to not last that long and have to be replaced after so many years as well as a continue cleaning and "don't bend them for they will fall apart having to clean them with a soft material so as not to disturb the working elements within them and most people are not dyi minded to begin with. I know there is a better way and I know that the stove companies in the future will solve the problem of dirty air as well as all the energy companies for they are working on problems to have cleaner fuel because they are going to have to do this for people to survive with good health and while I am on this subject the countries can get together and clean up our oceans too in a mass way. Pipe dreams..clancey


I am sorry but fossil fuel companies are not working on anything to reduce pollution.  They just supply the fuel.  Cleaning it up comes from the appliances and vehicles etc.  They certainly could clean up the production but they have nothing motivating them to.

How exactly is solar going to harm all of those things???

As far as tubes clogging I have been doing this a long time worked on many hundreds of tube stoves and have yet to see one clogged.  It just doesn't happen.  Most tube stoves are very easy to work on.  Most cat stoves are as well.


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## begreen (Feb 20, 2022)

clancey said:


> Our birds are dying and falling in clumps-hundreds of them straight down into the ground..Our whales are beaching themselves and I think it is the noise five G in the oceans and radar that the different countries are blasting under and over in our seas, even on land our precious bees are dying.


That's just silly. There is no correlation. The birds that dropped out of the air were large flocks escaping the wildfire in the west. Whales beaching can be from a number of reasons, one of the most insidious causes is underwater naval sonic booms, definitely not 5G. 

Solar energy is hitting the planet all the time. Plants harvest it. Should we be afraid of plants and the sun now? This is just nuts. The advertisers have found out what some people are worried about and target them with ads. Health ads abound on some channels and they often target, the sick, elderly, and ill-informed. Snake oil salesmen are not new. Colorado was full of them 150 years ago too.


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## stoveliker (Feb 20, 2022)

If I remember the frequencies correctly, water absorbs this range very well, meaning that sealife will be protected the best of all life...


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## clancey (Feb 20, 2022)

Sea water carries the energy that vibrates and gets hot making sound waves that interferes with the whales communication and sonar channels. Stove burning is a tremendous life saving apparatus that they need to clean up and fix so that they are safe and easy to work even maybe making those wood stoves burn pellets and coal as well without all the jumping around and frustration to work them. Like I say I love all energies but they need in the future to make these things more safe and less polluting as well. Fireplaces with inserts and wood stoves are very nice things to have to keep us warm and cook with and give us the ambiance and that wonderful feeling of the special heat that they deliver so that we can make our means and try to save a little bit of money for other things in our lives. I agree with the op"s article and I love wood stoves but things involving air pollution has to be fixed so I say to all the stove makers start now to investigate new ways to achieve all this. clancey


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## bholler (Feb 20, 2022)

clancey said:


> Sea water carries the energy that vibrates and gets hot making sound waves that interferes with the whales communication and sonar channels. Stove burning is a tremendous life saving apparatus that they need to clean up and fix so that they are safe and easy to work even maybe making those wood stoves burn pellets and coal as well without all the jumping around and frustration to work them. Like I say I love all energies but they need in the future to make these things more safe and less polluting as well. Fireplaces with inserts and wood stoves are very nice things to have to keep us warm and cook with and give us the ambiance and that wonderful feeling of the special heat that they deliver so that we can make our means and try to save a little bit of money for other things in our lives. I agree with the op"s article and I love wood stoves but things involving air pollution has to be fixed so I say to all the stove makers start now to investigate new ways to achieve all this. clancey


Again what does solar power have to do with any of that?


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## clancey (Feb 20, 2022)

It has nothing to do with air pollution but it makes the environment warmer as well as taking up a tremendous amount of land to have it..We are being microwaved by these energies but humankind just does not know it yet . Plus there are problems of disposing of the left over parts of the batteries as well as trying to get the lithium and other materials that would be needed to keep them in operation...Electric cars and motorcycles have their place and I love them for the less polluting aspect of them as well as their wonderful quickness but there are problems there too for the younger generation to work out and they will for we have some smart young people. clancey


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## stoveliker (Feb 20, 2022)

The whole point of needing to have many 5G towers is that their waves decay fast. So only the first mile of so of seawater surface even sees these waves. The heating argument you now put forward is as valid as me "believing" that lightning comes from the flying spaghetti monster. It is completely ludicrous. I can believe that but if I would study a little bit I'd see how wrong that believe is.

Solar panels do not heat the air; they absorb light that would otherwise be absorbed by roofs.

And finally stove manufacturers have been working on making them cleaner for over 30 years (thanks to government regulations BTW). So asking them to "start" doing so is again ludicrous.

You may have your beliefs, but please don't state as fact what you believe. Because many of these are as wrong as the flying spaghetti monster one I mentioned. And this site is meant for facts and possibly beliefs with proper arguments to support them. Yours are not.

I understand this is a hard message to hear but after so much nonsense, this needs to be said too.


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## bholler (Feb 20, 2022)

clancey said:


> It has nothing to do with air pollution but it makes the environment warmer as well as taking up a tremendous amount of land to have it..We are being microwaved by these energies but humankind just does not know it yet . Plus there are problems of disposing of the left over parts of the batteries as well as trying to get the lithium and other materials that would be needed to keep them in operation...Electric cars and motorcycles have their place and I love them for the less polluting aspect of them as well as their wonderful quickness but there are problems there too for the younger generation to work out and they will for we have some smart young people. clancey


How does solar energy production make our environment warmer?


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## clancey (Feb 20, 2022)

I agree with the op's article that he presented and everybody has a right to post the way that they take it in their own minds on how it reads to them...Wood burning stoves pollute the environment and there are ways that the stove can be reinvented to make them safer as well as easier for the people who have them and this at this moment is all that is necessary to say for people will use their own minds and as far as technical information about solar refer to stoveliker for he seems to know a lot about it... In answer to begreen. this is the video that I saw in a larger format and it is really concerning no matter what "exact" reason for it and this is happening world wide...clancey








						Startling Video Shows Hundreds Of Birds Crash Into The Ground In Mass Bird Fall
					

Startling Video Shows Hundreds Of Birds Crash Into The Ground In Mass Bird Fall




					www.iflscience.com


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## fbelec (Feb 21, 2022)

i looked at the bird video. they have one leader and they all follow him or her. they are dead because they hit the ground. just like when a bird hits a sliding glass door it either breaks their neck of they are badly stunned and either die or fly away


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## clancey (Feb 21, 2022)

That's all true what you say about birds and some of  the reasons "why". But so many sick birds appearing as well and I am doing my best to give another view on the different energies wishing for me not to get into the political realities of all of this but the wood burning problem has to be solved in the future and if not "It will be banned"., and I do not want that for I do like it and they can figure out ways to tackle this problem and I sincerely agree with that other earlier poster on posting number 26 and that song I love. I am just an old woman "what do I know", and like the other poster I too am living in a environment where there is so much(not smoke) but  energies around in the air like 5g , wifi, dirty electricity, gun shot sound warning connected to police stations like radio waves  and  emf.s . I can feel it by way of vibration and heat and I can hear a unexplained humming noise 24 hours a day. I can hear the noise driving south, west, east and north with five hours of driving time in trying to get away from it looking for a location to move to so that I will not experience this type of noise pollution not smoke like  the poster # 26  person is experiencing but one just as dangerous for our planet in the way of human and all creatures health. I think that your posting song lover is wonderful and really explains how people can be totally affected by these events. Some people have a name for us calling us "hummers" but please do start your different researches about the world wide hum noise and see the effects for yourselves. One piece of real evidence that I have for my own experience is it started the day they put the 5G pole up about three or four car lengths from my home and I complained about the wires hanging out of it that kids must have gotten into it and a white van was sent in the next few days with no markings on as I was looking out the door with my bathrobe on and for very few seconds less than a minute the noise stopped as he was fooling with the meter box on it that has a shut off valve lever connected to it with a warning and that's when I felt the full impact of it because in that silent moment  my whole body was relieved of a pressure that felt just like the weight of  those blankets they cover you with when dental xrays are taken and nobody else hears this hum noise. So I have full sympathy with you and understand as well. That was in about march or april when they put it in and I am surrounded on all sides by ugly towers as well and these five g poles are spaced close together about 8 houses worth and they hide most of the 5g equipment in other places--under roofs in cactus's and the like...I am too old to move and in the mist of trying to abate the situation in my home by emf bed canopies and curtains and special paint and I got rid of my wifi and hard wired my computer...hoping that I can make a difference in regard to trying to maintain good health for this is all that I can do...All the birdies in my area have disappeared.  No robins, wood peckers, blue jays, few sparrows and all the birds are gone this year only pigeons and crows on the lines.  Sorry for this long post but its real to me as well as needing to have the faith that they will fix these things or at least trying to find ways to fix it and accomplishing the goal. Me of little faith---God Bless my country and your beautiful country and all its people..clancey


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## Ashful (Feb 21, 2022)

I've spent time working in the UK and Ireland, and have some friends there, still.  I will say that, unlike mainland Europe, they're very stuck to tradition and not changing... well, anything.  It is very likely that, many of the assumptions stated in the OP's article are true, and based on a population of very old woodstoves installed by grandpa and still burned today.  That's not a criticism, I truly love the place, but it does affect my interpretation of the article.

I'm not the fist here to say it, but the answer is the same as has been for most of our socio-environmental problems:  public awareness.  Hopefully that results in more people burning modern stoves more cleanly, rather than a push toward legislation against burning wood, but it really can go either way.  If each person who learns to burn dry wood in a modern stove can convince two or three friends to do the same, I suspect that is the best we can hope for.  The more folks ignorantly pushing wet wood thru any stove, modern or ancient, and the more who hang onto their old Fishers, the more negative backlash I expect we will hear.

If the data exists, I would be very interested to see a listing of average installed particulate output by country, to confirm my first statement.  The US is so large and varied, politically and socio-economically, that I guess you'd really need to break it down by state.


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## Terry Slade (Feb 22, 2022)

clancey said:


> I have faith in the energy companies fixing the problem of pollution and I am sure they are all working on a solution right now...But when you get into solar and the "higher energies" to me this sounds like "doom" for all living things: Our whales, our crabs and fish of the sea, and especially humankind who will be decreased in number and I believe "with intent". It's a funny thing when they quickly--I mean "quick" put up all the 5G towers here in Colorado  all the advertisements on television started announcing new vitamins and new medicines and most of these new medicines and therapy all had to do with the coming side effects that are directly the side effects of the "higher energies",  Hearing problems, skin problems, breathing problems, blood problems, and depression problems as well as a lack of energy and a lack of sleep with a nervousness of people that are just plain "jumpy" with a loss of patience and much more anger and road rage too. Our birds are dying and falling in clumps-hundreds of them straight down into the ground..Our whales are beaching themselves and I think it is the noise five G in the oceans and radar that the different countries are blasting under and over in our seas, even on land our precious bees are dying. So getting back to "tubes" in the stoves and imagine that these can really get clogged up and for the common person with no dyi skills who own stoves and the point that I wish to make is they should make these stoves more easy to work on or have another "complete system change" on how to make them easy as well as collecting the pollutants in some kind of a dedicated system, maybe some different type of filters that you can just throw away or plug into a tank of water that could be reused into something else. There is a lot of smart people in this world and I have faith in the stove makers to come up with better solutions so that we all can enjoy our wood burning and not impact other people as well. I do not believe that the "cats" are the best that they could offer in regard the total way that one has to maintain them in order to keep the air cleaner and as you pointed to with the abuse of them by the heat that causes them to not last that long and have to be replaced after so many years as well as a continue cleaning and "don't bend them for they will fall apart having to clean them with a soft material so as not to disturb the working elements within them and most people are not dyi minded to begin with. I know there is a better way and I know that the stove companies in the future will solve the problem of dirty air as well as all the energy companies for they are working on problems to have cleaner fuel because they are going to have to do this for people to survive with good health and while I am on this subject the countries can get together and clean up our oceans too in a mass way. Pipe dreams..clancey


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## firefighterjake (Feb 22, 2022)

Sooooo . . . there's no such thing as the Flying Spaghetti Monster? 

Just asking for a friend.

Next thing you'll tell me there's no beer volcano in heaven.


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## enordy (Feb 22, 2022)

firefighterjake said:


> Sooooo . . . there's no such thing as the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
> 
> Just asking for a friend.
> 
> Next thing you'll tell me there's no beer volcano in heaven.



But, but.......


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