# Pelpro pp130. Lazy flame. Overflowing burn pot. All of sudden   Only 1 ton pellets in.



## llidisky (Jan 14, 2018)

Hey everyone.   So this year I installed the pp130 in our house.  I have it vented through an exhausting flu with 4" all the way up.  I also have an outside air kit installed.  So first ton of pellets.  It was doing awesome.  We vacuum well every day or two.  Near the end of that ton the convection blower started to whistle so I deep cleaned it and reinstalled as well as cleaned the flu Tee clean out,  and it worked great for about 4 days.  Then all of the sudden the flame got lazy. Started seeing black building on glass and inside of stove. And the burn pot seems to be overfilling often.   I tried adjusting the dial on the stove that I believe adjusts the auger speed.  But when I adjust it down. My flame gets really small and it doesn't put out much heat.  So I'm kinda at a loss on what to do.   I am including pics of the burn pot.  This was vacuumed yesterday.  A video of flame also 



The stove was burning about a bag to bag and a half a day. Now it's 3.5-4.  Ideas??


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## johneh (Jan 14, 2018)

Usually a lazy flame , black build up on glass and overflowing pellets 
indicates a lake of combustion air . Check air intake (OAK) exhaust
 passages in stove and clean vacuum . Check and clean combustion motor 
Clean chimney . Do a leaf blower clean if you have one ,
Note ash can hide in some strange places


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## llidisky (Jan 14, 2018)

So I just pulled the panels on inside of stove and the exhaust outlet did have quite a bit of ash that I couldn't see without pulling panels.   Just pulled all panels and vacuumed.   Fired back up.  Will update in a bit.  





johneh said:


> Usually a lazy flame , black build up on glass and overflowing pellets
> indicates a lake of combustion air . Check air intake (OAK) exhaust
> passages in stove and clean vacuum . Check and clean combustion motor
> Clean chimney . Do a leaf blower clean if you have one ,
> Note ash can hide in some strange places


 I


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## pelletstoveuser (Feb 17, 2021)

Did you ever get this issue resolved? I have the exact same problem with one I have installed in my garage. I  vacuum it out daily and pull the panels out once a week. I also clean the "T" on the back of the stove about once a month and pull the combustion fan about twice a season and clean it out. If I leave the stove on any setting above the very lowest setting on the dial it will overfill the fire pot over time. By the time it uses a full hopper of pellets or close to it, the pot will be full as well and the entire  bottom of the stove will be full of unburnt pellets to the top of the fire pot. The trim dial seems to have no affect on how it operates. In my opinion they needed a combustion motor with a little more output capability, I think it is a design flaw that their ego does not allow them to remedy. I have my stove 2' off the floor with a 5' upright 3" chimney pipe coming off of a "T" on the back of the stove to a 90 on a 3' horizontal 3" pipe that takes it through the wall to the outside.


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## Ssyko (Feb 17, 2021)

If you are 100% sure its clean I’d have to say theres a problem with the control board, particularly the trim pot (heat adjustment) or the prom program has been corrupted.


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## Jeremy6500 (Feb 17, 2021)

I agree that most of the time this behavior is due to air flow issues, but bad pellets can create a ton of ash and soot that will block air flow very quickly.

I have a PP130 that I have had this issue with occasionally. For mine it is a combination of keeping it clean (especially the exhaust venting) and the quality of pellets I burn. I got a batch of off brand pellet a little while ago since they didn't have what I usually get. They produced a bunch of ash and would fill the pot/stove/vent extremely fast. They also deposited black soot all over everything. This caused failed ignition sensing, lazy flame, etc etc.

I am now burning Lignetics hard wood pellets and no longer have this issue.  I usually turn the stove off and dump the ash out of the pot every 1-2 days. I pull the interior panels and vacuum everything really well about once a week. Once a month I clean the vent piping and I pull the combustion fan to clean it about once a season.

I will say that it is fairly sensitive to pellet quality and maintenance. I currently do not have a fresh air intake on mine.

I have messed with the trim setting some, but never really saw much difference in relation to overfilling the burn pot.

For reference mine is currently using about a bag a day. So a hopper full would be about 3 bags. I usually dump the ash out of my burn pot about every 1.5-2.5 bags.


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## pelletstoveuser (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback---I burn about what Jeremy states for pellets in a day and since mine is in a garage I also do not have a fresh air vent or combustion vent to the outside. I have been burning a softwood pellet "Black Hills Gold" MFG in Spearfish, SD that may be part of the cause. Its been a while since I have burned hard wood pellets so I may spend the extra dollar or so for some hard wood pellets on the next round of pellets I get. Indeck wood pellets are the only Hardwood pellets I have been able to find locally and I used before so I will test those out against the soft wood pellets I have used for the past year or so.


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## Jeremy6500 (Feb 18, 2021)

*When you say no combustion vent, do you mean it is dumping exhaust into the garage? I wouldn’t think that would be safe. As far as softwood vs hardwood. Good softwood pellets are supposed to burn hotter and cleaner than hardwood. Do you have access to any other brand of softwood pellets to try? I use hardwood because they are what is available in my area and are less expensive here.*


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## Dataman (Feb 18, 2021)

Wow vent Pellet Stove inside.    I hope he's Ok and not dead


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## pelletstoveuser (Feb 18, 2021)

Jeremy6500 said:


> *When you say no combustion vent, do you mean it is dumping exhaust into the garage? I wouldn’t think that would be safe. As far as softwood vs hardwood. Good softwood pellets are supposed to burn hotter and cleaner than hardwood. Do you have access to any other brand of softwood pellets to try? I use hardwood because they are what is available in my area and are less expensive here.*


No I am speaking of your combustion fresh air vent that sucks in the air to supply the actual fire not being ducted to the outside of the exterior wall. The other is what we call a Chimney or Exhaust vent as it may be referred to in some regions which is set up as I described in my original post to this topic.
I agree the soft wood pellets do appear to burn hotter which is why I chose those and the hard wood pellets here as I stated are about a dollar higher than the soft wood pellets. However, Spearfish, SD is only about 3 hours from my area so the trucking may be why the hard wood pellets from Wisconsin are a little higher. I have also tried Purcell pellets that come out of Idaho but they really have no advantage over either of the two types I have access to locally.


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## FixedGearFlyer (Feb 18, 2021)

We have 2 PP130s that we put in this year. One has been amazing since day 1 and the other has been a challenge, but we finally have it figured out. 

The trim doesn't adjust the pellet feed - it adjusts the amount of combustion air from the variable speed combustion blower. Try turning it up to a higher trim number to get more combustion air into your burn pot. The more difficult PP130 we have needs a +3 trim setting to burn cleanly, while the other burns like a champ at -1/2. 

Also, you mention vacuuming. Do you also scrape the burn pot and ream the air holes at least weekly? If not, you may have carbon deposits blocking the air holes in your burn pot, which would also cause the lazy burn and unburned pellets.


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## pelletstoveuser (Feb 19, 2021)

In the manual it states that if you have a lazy flame or soot build up to turn the dial counter clockwise. I have tried adjusting it both directions but only once in the clockwise direction as I figured they are indicating that would slow down air flow. For this particular problem with pellets piling up should I in fact be making adjustments in the clockwise direction off of zero? I appreciate the advise and find this to be a good site to read and ask questions about theses pellet stoves.....


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## FixedGearFlyer (Feb 19, 2021)

pelletstoveuser said:


> In the manual it states that if you have a lazy flame or soot build up to turn the dial counter clockwise. I have tried adjusting it both directions but only once in the clockwise direction as I figured they are indicating that would slow down air flow. For this particular problem with pellets piling up should I in fact be making adjustments in the clockwise direction off of zero? I appreciate the advise and find this to be a good site to read and ask questions about theses pellet stoves.....



I know that's what it says, but it also says if the fire goes out, turn it clockwise. The trim adjustment isn't very well described. 

On both of ours, turning clockwise increases combustion air. On the one in the shop, going too far goes to blowtorch and the tall lazy flames, so it's just counter clockwise of zero.

On the one in the house (exact same install, including pipe size and length), a neutral trim setting is such low combustion air that the vac switch trips and stops the pellet feed when it's running on low. That one needs a trim of about +3 to run like the one in the shop.

I don't know if it's a difference in the combustion blower or the trim pot, but it's not the vacuum switch - I've swapped them between stoves with no change in behavior.


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## guatamican eye fake (Feb 19, 2021)

pelletstoveuser said:


> Thanks for the feedback---I burn about what Jeremy states for pellets in a day and since mine is in a garage I also do not have a fresh air vent or combustion vent to the outside. I have been burning a softwood pellet "Black Hills Gold" MFG in Spearfish, SD that may be part of the cause. Its been a while since I have burned hard wood pellets so I may spend the extra dollar or so for some hard wood pellets on the next round of pellets I get. Indeck wood pellets are the only Hardwood pellets I have been able to find locally and I used before so I will test those out against the soft wood pellets I have used for the past year or so.


Ive been burning black hills gold this winter and I thought they were a good pellet.  Probably one of the best softwoods I've burned. Not alot of choices  for softwoods locally here though


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## pelletstoveuser (Feb 22, 2021)

I like the  black hills for the most part as they seem to burn hotter, the Purcel brand out of Idaho is about the same with the exception of they seem to have a little less saw dust in them. I did have some build up in the transition area between the exhaust blower and the chimney and I dialed up the trim adjustment to +1 in the clockwise direction and so far it has been doing quite well. As I stated before from reading the manual I understood it to be that if you wanted more air flow you turned the trim counterclockwise. It states in part that if you have heavy soot or lazy flame to turn it counterclockwise, which to me would indicate you are not getting enough air so I assumed turning the trim counterclockwise would either increase air flow or decrease auger feed......Anyway thanks again for all the advise and suggestions and I have to state this is one of the better message boards I have ever interacted with.


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## pelletstoveuser (Mar 9, 2022)

I talked to Pelpro tech support today and they told me the trim dial adjusts or changes the auger feed rate as well as the amount of combustion air. They told me the negative side of the zero setting slows both down and the positive side speeds both up. I timed the off cycle time of the auger with the dial at -4 and +4 and there is about a 3/4 to full a full second difference, the -4 it was off for about 4.5 seconds and +4 it cycles off for about 3.5 seconds. I was just using a stop watch so about a 1/4 second variance is what I was seeing between results. This design probably works well when all factors are a constant but in the case of pellet stoves sold nation wide probably not such a good idea. Since they cannot control the altitude or name brand of pellet being used you would have to set you air to fuel mixture differently for different geographical locations as well as fuel, you won't have much luck just having some canned settings that turn both up or down linearly. Basically what they have on what they call a trim dial is actually a gain dial where as they can turn up or down the output of the stove in reference to the thermostat dial. I know something about fuel to air ratios because I work on duel fuel oil/gas boilers in the northern plains and rocky mountains areas and none of them are set the same on the fuel air settings to get the same desired emissions results. And all of the boilers I work on are identical name brand and size.
So now what the question is has any one wired one of these stoves so you can adjust the feed rate or air flow independently of the stove control board? If anyone has done a mod or knows about upgrading these to have independent adjustments or even if you can plug in to the control board and fine tune those adjustments on there would be greatly appreciated.


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## Jeremy6500 (Mar 9, 2022)

pelletstoveuser said:


> I talked to Pelpro tech support today and they told me the trim dial adjusts or changes the auger feed rate as well as the amount of combustion air. They told me the negative side of the zero setting slows both down and the positive side speeds both up. I timed the off cycle time of the auger with the dial at -4 and +4 and there is about a 3/4 to full a full second difference, the -4 it was off for about 4.5 seconds and +4 it cycles off for about 3.5 seconds. I was just using a stop watch so about a 1/4 second variance is what I was seeing between results. This design probably works well when all factors are a constant but in the case of pellet stoves sold nation wide probably not such a good idea. Since they cannot control the altitude or name brand of pellet being used you would have to set you air to fuel mixture differently for different geographical locations as well as fuel, you won't have much luck just having some canned settings that turn both up or down linearly. Basically what they have on what they call a trim dial is actually a gain dial where as they can turn up or down the output of the stove in reference to the thermostat dial. I know something about fuel to air ratios because I work on duel fuel oil/gas boilers in the northern plains and rocky mountains areas and none of them are set the same on the fuel air settings to get the same desired emissions results. And all of the boilers I work on are identical name brand and size.
> So now what the question is has any one wired one of these stoves so you can adjust the feed rate or air flow independently of the stove control board? If anyone has done a mod or knows about upgrading these to have independent adjustments or even if you can plug in to the control board and fine tune those adjustments on there would be greatly appreciated.



It would be nice if you adjust them separately.  It makes no sense that they would increase both or decrease both.  I would think that for the adjustment to be worth anything it should be the inverse. One way should increase the air and decrease the fuel, while the other way should increase the fuel and decrease the air. That way you could find the sweet spot for the air/fuel ratio to give you a good clean burn.


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## Mt Bob (Mar 9, 2022)

They are a cheap stove.However, they are designed and tested, to provide durability,ease of use and meeting emissions. They know their designs will not suit all locations/installs, and are very good about taking a stove back and refunding your cash. To add in more features/usability can make the price jump immensely. Their market is the people that buy a home heating device at a farm/ranch/big box  store, and can install it and use it easily.


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## pelletstoveuser (Mar 16, 2022)

Jeremy6500 said:


> It would be nice if you adjust them separately.  It makes no sense that they would increase both or decrease both.  I would think that for the adjustment to be worth anything it should be the inverse. One way should increase the air and decrease the fuel, while the other way should increase the fuel and decrease the air. That way you could find the sweet spot for the air/fuel ratio to give you a good clean burn.


I agree


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## pelletstoveuser (Mar 16, 2022)

I have had other pellet stoves in past and the one thing I noticed between the Pelpro pp130 and others is a stark difference in the burn pots design. The thing about this stove also is the design of the pot lends itself to filling up fairly quickly with ash, as it states on the placard to clean out after one bag but it also has a pictoral indicating to dump it daily as to what I would assume every 24 hours. Well I do dump mine daily as it does get fairly filled up after a days worth of running whether on low or turned up. So a while back I decided to get a new burn pot as the OEM one started to get a hole burned through the side of it, this stove is about six years old. After getting my new burn pot I took the old one and did a little repair work to and then modified it to be similar to some of the other styles I have seen. I have ran if for five days now with this burn pot. I ran one bag through it initially and when it ran out there where just few pellets in the bottom that came in after the fire extinguished due to running out of pellets in the hopper. Other than those few pellets there was no ash or clinkers to speak of in the burn pot and all the ash was in the bottom of the stove outside of the burn pot. Then I ran three bags through it over a three day span and same results except I turned it off to clean it and there were no residual pellets in the burn pot. I run it on the -4 setting on the trim and it still burns a little rich regardless of the trim setting but it always has, which is why I wish you could either regulate the auger feed or combustion air independently.
Little update: I turned the setting up to +1 and it burns about the same in regards to flame size, color and richness.


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## sweaty (Mar 17, 2022)

pelletstoveuser said:


> I have had other pellet stoves in past and the one thing I noticed between the Pelpro pp130 and others is a stark difference in the burn pots design. The thing about this stove also is the design of the pot lends itself to filling up fairly quickly with ash, as it states on the placard to clean out after one bag but it also has a pictoral indicating to dump it daily as to what I would assume every 24 hours. Well I do dump mine daily as it does get fairly filled up after a days worth of running whether on low or turned up. So a while back I decided to get a new burn pot as the OEM one started to get a hole burned through the side of it, this stove is about six years old. After getting my new burn pot I took the old one and did a little repair work to and then modified it to be similar to some of the other styles I have seen. I have ran if for five days now with this burn pot. I ran one bag through it initially and when it ran out there where just few pellets in the bottom that came in after the fire extinguished due to running out of pellets in the hopper. Other than those few pellets there was no ash or clinkers to speak of in the burn pot and all the ash was in the bottom of the stove outside of the burn pot. Then I ran three bags through it over a three day span and same results except I turned it off to clean it and there were no residual pellets in the burn pot. I run it on the -4 setting on the trim and it still burns a little rich regardless of the trim setting but it always has, which is why I wish you could either regulate the auger feed or combustion air independently.
> Little update: I turned the setting up to +1 and it burns about the same in regards to flame size, color and richness.


Interesting. So what kind of modification did you do? The factory pot was two metal pieces inter locked with some holes drilled if I remember correctly.  Did you enlarge the holes or make more holes?


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## pelletstoveuser (Mar 21, 2022)

Well looking at most of the other brands I noticed they all basically had the same design as each other but much different than pelpro. They have the majority of holes, slots or otherwise air access on the bottom of their burn pot not all from the sides or above pointed downward. So I welded all the holes up, cut off the angled piece on the removable front and plated off the two oval holes on that. Then I welded up all the other holes. Next I set the base up in my mill and had it drill .150" holes spaced the same a part to end up with a grate that looks similar to a meet grider die, pellet mill die or concave in a combine. I figured I would see how that ran and close up some or add some to the sides as needed. I thought about maybe adding one row on the sides close to the bottom to get a little cross combustion air action but I haven't yet and may not. My stove runs all winter and as I stated I have to shut it down every day to clean the burn pot. Since i did this I wait until I see the ash start to pile up on the bottom of the window and then shut it down and vacuum out the ash all around the pot but have not had any build up in or under it.

One other think of note that I have noticed, along with not getting any build up of ash and clinkers in the burn pot I also haven't been getting any residual partially burnt or un-burnt pellets out side of the burn pot like I used to. What I vacuum up now is ALL very fine ash


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## pelletstoveuser (Apr 12, 2022)

Well today I did a little more tuning on the burn pot. As I mentioned previously, after I had made my changes, it still kind of ran a little rich. So I added some holes around the sides just above at the base and that seems to have gotten it to burn a little leaner now from what I can tell. I figured since the bottom never fills up with ash any more I could add some cross air action to fan the burn the a little more and that made a noticeable difference. I had been using the new Stainless steel pot I got but after about a day it ends up filling up with ash, clinkers and such and it got cold here again and so I figured I would use my upgraded burn pot so I could leave it run and not worry about it filling up with ash and the fire going out.


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## pelletstoveuser (Nov 25, 2022)

To give you an idea of how well the modified burn pot keeps the ashes out of the fire pot, take a look at the two pictures. This was after about 4 bags over two days. The OEM pot will fill up in about a day after about a bag and a half. It also does not get black sooted up like it does with the OEM pot either, which may somewhat occur from when it is shut down but at any rate it does not get the black soot all over inside between cleanings. It is more brown like the color of the ash it leaves


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## Gtobrian1977 (Dec 14, 2022)

Ours did the same after the first 10 bags or so.  Every so often it still does.  I vacuum it then crank it all the way up for 2 hours.  Seems to burn all build up out of it.   Burn it hot then adjust to liking


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## Jeremy6500 (Dec 14, 2022)

Gtobrian1977 said:


> Ours did the same after the first 10 bags or so.  Every so often it still does.  I vacuum it then crank it all the way up for 2 hours.  Seems to burn all build up out of it.   Burn it hot then adjust to liking
> 
> View attachment 305193
> View attachment 305194


I burn mine on high some as well.

I have 2 stoves. Turn this one off at night.  Then kick it on high in the morning for a bit.  Then back to low for the day


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 18, 2022)

I did a little test on the stove (Pelpro PP130/MFG Date 2/2015)  to see if I could better understand just what the trim dial effects. A couple of notes on the test to be aware of:

 I did not verify if the the auger turns the same amount every time it is commanded to to turn. So I do not know if it in fact does incrementally rotate the same amount every time it is commanded to do so. 
The second and and the last setting values were the same in order to see if the sampling was accurate. Other than the RPM speed the dwell time between auger cycles was consistent. 
There was already an existing white line on the fan on top of the combustion fan motor that I used for the reference for the motor RPM using an optical tachometer.
I waited 5 to 6 minutes in between tests after I made any trim and/or T-stat adjustments.
I would like to know if this is accurate or how it compares to others who may have done this, if anyone has. Other than the low to thermostat setting it really appears there is no significant change in fan RPM by the trim adjust and there is slight dwell time differences in the the off time of the auger motor. If that is the case, it would be nice to have a better control for the auger feed rate. In my case when the wind blows out of the North East I would like to have the fan running at full speed and the dwell time between auger feeds decreased a little more than the current trim adjust allows.

Has anyone every modified a Pelpro with a custom auger timer control or something similar? 
I use mine in a good sized shop and really could care less about the thermostat as in my case it is either on low when I am not there or it runs full on even if the setting is on one just due to the size of the garage and temp when I do use it. 


Trim Adjustment settingT-Stat SettingSeconds between auger feed commandsCombustion Fan RPM-3​Low6.09​2681​-3​4​4.11​3131​`+3​4​3.6​3091​0​4​3.81​3086​-3​4​4.08​3097​


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 18, 2022)

pelletstoveuser said:


> I did a little test on the stove (Pelpro PP130/MFG Date 2/2015)  to see if I could better understand just what the trim dial effects. A couple of notes on the test to be aware of:
> 
> I did not verify if the the auger turns the same amount every time it is commanded to to turn. So I do not know if it in fact does incrementally rotate the same amount every time it is commanded to do so.
> The second and and the last setting values were the same in order to see if the sampling was accurate. Other than the RPM speed the dwell time between auger cycles was consistent.
> ...



I won't be home from work until after the 1st to check and compare. My PelPro was built in 21 and I have not done the software update. I did get between 2980 and 3100 rpm on exhaust fan when I checked it with little to no change with trim settings. I will check for sure when I get home.


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 19, 2022)

Shoe1757 said:


> I won't be home from work until after the 1st to check and compare. My PelPro was built in 21 and I have not done the software update. I did get between 2980 and 3100 rpm on exhaust fan when I checked it with little to no change with trim settings. I will check for sure when I get home.


Shoe1757​Thank you very much for the response. As you stated I saw no big difference in fan RPM either and the most was between the low setting and any number from 1 to 10 on the thermostat. I think Pelpro would serve the customer better if they just put a variable dial for the auger feeder that would go from as long as 60 seconds or more to as fast as two second intervals between auger feeds. And for the fan put a small VFD with a motor which has a rated RPM speed of 3600 that can pull about 100cfm or more. The main blower needs to be something that can move at least 500 CFM or more to make it worthy as well. I think the fan they use only rated for like 265 cfm. And then just have a hi and lo setting and not worry about trying to control it with a thermostat as I believe, although a novel concept, more of a hit an miss than not. If they wish they could just add a terminal base for the option to wire in a external thermometer that would cyle it between lo and hi and if the customer wants it they can add and in if not they don't.
Thanks again for the reply and would be interested in what you find on yours if you test it.


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 19, 2022)

I had trouble again with the stove feeding the pot more pellets than it could burn if set any higher than on low. I had throughly cleaned it yesterday and adjusted the trim as I documented the changes above but it would continue overfeeding. This afternoon I shut it down cleaned just the burn pot and around the bottom and sides. I then pulled out the baffles and drilled five, 1/4" holes from left to right about two inches down from the top on the lefthand baffel that has the exhaust outlet behind it on the bottom. I work on boilers and air heaters in my profession and realized that we give them unrestricted air to feed those burners and noticed that this combustion fan, which works basically in reverse of what I work on, was a bit restricted on the suction side as it has to basically suck around the edges of the baffel(s) in order to pull air through the burn pot for the combustion. Generally speaking your combustion air should not be restricted and should be regulated by the fan speed.  After I did that, I set the trim adjust to -4 and the dwell time between stop and start of auger feeds is 4.37 seconds and the fan rpm showed 3104. It has only ran a few hours now on 4 of the thermostat and the burn pot has been pretty consistently staying at a maintained level of pellets and not building up. The frustrating part is, about a week or little longer ago I had the same issue and it ended up being -2 trim setting and worked good like it is now up to about two days ago. And there had been some cleanings in between but it just kind of goes off the deep end and then comes back after a while.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 19, 2022)

I totally understand the frustration. But I do believe the green pulls from a gap below the baffle and above. Holes would definitely still add more flow and I can't wait to see your results! Hopefully it doesn't cause too much ash in the fan or exhaust pipe. I feel like these could be great "budget" stoves with a little tuning. When I get home I will be playing around with attempting to increase fan speed, different burn pot ports, and manual auger delaying.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 19, 2022)

Have you contacted PelPro about the free software upgrade? I want to do it, but only if it's reversible.


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## Jeremy6500 (Dec 20, 2022)

I must have the PP130 unicorn. Mine has had no real issues that required any modification etc for the past 3 winters.

I say "real issues" because I did have to do a few things over the past 3 years.
1. Had to replace the room blower and the ignitor. Both simple fixes.
2. Had an issue with it not registering a flame. This came down to the stove not being clean.  Ash in the exhaust blower housing was insulating the sensor. Cleaning it prior to heating season has made this a non issue.

When I first moved in to my  house it already had the PP130 installed.  I had some issues with overflowing pellets etc until I figured out how to make sure it was clean and had good air flow. Since then I can run it on any setting with no issue.

Mine is direct vented from the back of the stove and out the wall. I wonder if this helps since there is no restrictions.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 20, 2022)

Well other than my wife breaking the hopper switch, I can't say I've had any real issues yet. The burn pot did over flow sort of one day, was burning still, but the ledge was covered in unburnt pellets. I am just looking for ways to make it better and a little more efficient


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 21, 2022)

In regards to durability the only thing that has ever failed on mine is the door latch broke. I have a "T" out of the stove to a 5' vertical, a 90 and a 3' horizontal out the wall. So some of my issue may be is it has work harder  to vent out of that but from what I could get from installation instructions that should be ok. I did want to go straight out the wall but it being on the north side I was a bit concerned with snow piling up and it is in a traffic area as well. I believe you get a much better draft than I do with it straight out the all. I have the stove on a stand so the pipe on the outside is about 7' above ground level so you won't run into if you are walking by. I considered the extra dust in the fan as well and that is in part why I put them up closer to the top instead of just a bit close to the top of the burn post were I initially thought of installing them. It's been below zero here the past few days and it has done pretty well with the T-stat on 3 or 4, I could set it on one and it would never heat it up enough at this time of year to throttle down. You peeked my interest in adding a little positive air to the intake and I did experiment with that in shorts burst of a few minutes at a time and it does make noticeable difference. It would take much flow and I think if you had a fan that you had a means of adjusting the airflow probably would work.
In regards to the software deal I vaguely recall that and I may have upgraded it as I remember a few years ago messing around with plugging a USB in to the port on the card behind the panel. I noted what I have read on the subject that it claims to be for a model 130B I believe and my does not have  B in the model. I could be wrong on the model nomenclature other than I do remember there being "B" in the model I have seen referenced that has the firmware upgrade option. So if I did talk to Pelpro, and I may have cause I have had this stove a few years and it has lasted longer than my memory, I may have done the update but again I may not have.  
Now that I got to where it will consistently keep the burn pot clean for several days now on low a least, I wish I would have order the hopper extension.
Thanks for all the feedback, ideas and info you guys have shared. I will keep you all posted on any changes, experiments or tests I may do in the future but it has been running fairly well as of late and if we don't get to many NW wind storms it will probably keep chugging along pretty good it appears.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 21, 2022)

pelletstoveuser said:


> In regards to durability the only thing that has ever failed on mine is the door latch broke. I have a "T" out of the stove to a 5' vertical, a 90 and a 3' horizontal out the wall. So some of my issue may be is it has work harder  to vent out of that but from what I could get from installation instructions that should be ok. I did want to go straight out the wall but it being on the north side I was a bit concerned with snow piling up and it is in a traffic area as well. I believe you get a much better draft than I do with it straight out the all. I have the stove on a stand so the pipe on the outside is about 7' above ground level so you won't run into if you are walking by. I considered the extra dust in the fan as well and that is in part why I put them up closer to the top instead of just a bit close to the top of the burn post were I initially thought of installing them. It's been below zero here the past few days and it has done pretty well with the T-stat on 3 or 4, I could set it on one and it would never heat it up enough at this time of year to throttle down. You peeked my interest in adding a little positive air to the intake and I did experiment with that in shorts burst of a few minutes at a time and it does make noticeable difference. It would take much flow and I think if you had a fan that you had a means of adjusting the airflow probably would work.
> In regards to the software deal I vaguely recall that and I may have upgraded it as I remember a few years ago messing around with plugging a USB in to the port on the card behind the panel. I noted what I have read on the subject that it claims to be for a model 130B I believe and my does not have  B in the model. I could be wrong on the model nomenclature other than I do remember there being "B" in the model I have seen referenced that has the firmware upgrade option. So if I did talk to Pelpro, and I may have cause I have had this stove a few years and it has lasted longer than my memory, I may have done the update but again I may not have.
> Now that I got to where it will consistently keep the burn pot clean for several days now on low a least, I wish I would have order the hopper extension.
> Thanks for all the feedback, ideas and info you guys have shared. I will keep you all posted on any changes, experiments or tests I may do in the future but it has been running fairly well as of late and if we don't get to many NW wind storms it will probably keep chugging along pretty good it appears.


Wow that's awesome to keep it for 7 days even on low! As of two days ago I have had my wife just leave it on high to maintain 66-70 throughout the whole house and right at about 24 hours (Roughly 3 bags+/-) she noticed the pot building up pretty high and has to clean it. 

I plan on building a shroud with a computer fan that I will wire in a controller for on my intake side. I may even run the intake outside and make the fan in line. But before I get to that I have to finish sanding and rebuilding my Quadrafire contour to install in the basement or move the pp130 to the basement and install the contour in its place in the garage as it has a smaller hopper and lower BTU/hr output. 

I do recall the update being for the pp130b, but I could not find the difference with the 130b model so assumed maybe that's the full model name.


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## johneh (Dec 21, 2022)

Shoe1757 said:


> I plan on building a shroud with a computer fan that I will wire in a controller for on my intake side.



Wow, Change a negative draft stove to a positive draft stove!!
I wonder why so many years ago stove manufacturers changed from 
blowing air into the fire to sucking air through the fire?????????
Let's see some reasons 
Smoke and off-gasses escaping into the room!
Fire being blown into the hopper past the auger!
Overriding safties! Maybe you could think of a few.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 21, 2022)

johneh said:


> Wow, Change a negative draft stove to a positive draft stove!!
> I wonder why so many years ago stove manufacturers changed from
> blowing air into the fire to sucking air through the fire?????????
> Let's see some reasons
> ...


Couldn't think of any, so here's a few that make those irrelevant as well. 

I would need a pretty significant positive pressure fan/pump to make any of those things happen. 

Path of least resistance for air flow is still the exhaust, where it is being drawn by a substantial fan, so likelyhood of it going up the auger into the hopper is highly unlikely. In the even of say a total blockage in the exhaust and exhaust fan stopping, I'm still not applying pressurized air, so still highly unlikely along with wood gasses and smoke being released.

And my favorite...

All of my safety switches are still intact. Which my favorite being the vacuum switch! If I were to ever force so much air into the chamber that I even got to the point of losing vacuum pressure (let lone actually PRESSURIZING the chamber) the vacuum switch would break contact and shut down.

I am not recommending anyone try ANY of my ideas. I am simply giving a synopsis of testing I've done. 

The man who invented the wheel never perfected it.


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## Jeremy6500 (Dec 21, 2022)

I wonder if the safer and possibly easier way would be to just increase the cfm of the exhaust fan somehow.


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## johneh (Dec 21, 2022)

Shoe1757 said:


> The man who invented the wheel never perfected it.


You are right 
But that's why they went from pos. draft to neg draft 

What happens when and if the exhaust gets plugged?
It's your family to experiment with Just saying
Maybe you're a good candidate for the darwin list.


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 23, 2022)

johneh said:


> You are right
> But that's why they went from pos. draft to neg draft
> 
> What happens when and if the exhaust gets plugged?
> ...


Yea maybe my whole family will burn alive, good joke! 

Exhaust gets plugged, still no FORCED AIR. You can only put so much water in a glass. No airflow out, no airflow in, useable oxygen is spent and flame smothers it's self. Loss of vacuum causes auger feed to stop, worst case scenario it overheats and pops snap disc. Also I have a old school fire suppressent system set up in the garage and basement.


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## johneh (Dec 24, 2022)

Shoe1757 said:


> Exhaust gets plugged, still no FORCED AIR.


You have a perfectly sealed stove 
No air wash, door and ash pan seals perfect
Hopper lid sealed? No leaks anywhere
I won't argue with you I just feel you are taking two steps back 
trying to put a square peg into that round hole.
Trying the same thing over and over getting the same results 
What's that called? ----------- You fill in the blank


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## Shoe1757 (Dec 24, 2022)

johneh said:


> You have a perfectly sealed stove
> No air wash, door and ash pan seals perfect
> Hopper lid sealed? No leaks anywhere
> I won't argue with you I just feel you are taking two steps back
> ...


If you are referring to "insanity" that definition is only of Mr. Albert Einstein and not the legal definition. Also with the study of quantum physics we know that it is most certain that repeating the same thing over and over will produce a different result at some point. Maybe after 5 billion tries, but still.

No ash pan on the PelPro unfortunately, one of my favorite features on the Quadrafire. I think if you saw the set up you would understand the concept a little better, a lot of things can't be fully represented. It was set up similar to as if you had an OAK and there was a breeze blowing. I have actually moved that stove into the basement and with the OAK hooked up and with the high winds we've had over the last 2 days, it is noticeably forcing air in more so than my fan blowing towards the intake.


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 26, 2022)

I agree with the high wind and OAK being plumbed out side. Definitely going to be positive air flow through it with the winds we have experienced up north here over the past few days. With that being said mine has not seemed to been having issues as of late with the NW wind snuffing out the flame or working against the exhaust fan trying to push air out the chimney like it used to.
The hopper lid on a pelpro does not "seal" like other brands may, I guess they assume an auger full of pellets will seal it well enough. I like the comment about the guy who invented the wheel because in regards to the pelpro pellet chute, it should have a couple of offset baffels in it that allows the pellets to fall through but would help prevent hot embers from going up the chute.
Here is how you start an auger fire going. Let the stove run turned up so the pellets eventually build up to the top over many hours so there are hot embers filling the pot, this could take up to a whole day possibly. Open the hopper lid then add a little to much forced air to the OAK and walla you should have an auger fire in short order and the overtemp snap switch in the auger housing will open, shutting everything down. If you have a test cable built to run your auger then you can unplug your auger, plug that in and kick the auger on to evacuate the burning pellets.
All the boilers and air heaters I work on are positive air flow for the combustion air and the pellet stove is the only one I have personally experienced that uses a negative air flow system, which in regards to cost is probably more expensive to create a blower assembly for to be capable of handling high heat. I would agree an exhaust fan that had the capability of moving much more air than the one used on the pelpro would be more desirable but you would have to either be in the pellet stove business or one of your buddies works at the plant where pelpros' are made in order to figure out who is making the fan assembly for them in order to get you one with a higher cfm that also fits the same foot print. OR find one that fits the 3" chimney vent and plumb it in there instead.
About the only things you have to make sure that are sealed are the door, the burn pot on the housing it sits in and the combustion fan housing.
If I were to install a fan on mine to add a little more air I would wire it to operate in conjunction with the current fan, the vacuum switch and not run when on low.
In doing some maintenance on mine. I noticed the vacuum switch which is used to prove airflow is present, only shuts off the auger feed if the switch is open. If the switch is open it will not shut down the unit per say until the fire burns out due to lack of pellets. I point that out because I thought it probably was designed with a timer in circuit so that if something like the door comes open or whatever it would shut down the heater like the over temp switch does. So if I were to add and external fan I would probably include that in the limit string for the fan so if a positive pressure is seen inside the chamber it would shut that fan off so as not to further exacerbate the loss of airflow issue. If you were to add to much air from the paf, the chimney path plugs off or you loose enough seal somewhere like around the door you wouldn't want that fan to keep running.
One last note I will pass along, I did have an issue with my auger motor not working the other night. Basically it just quit turning and was getting voltage. So I removed it and pulled it apart and all the gears were intact but the grease seem pretty stiff. So I cleaned it up and relubed it and it ran as designed when tested, prior to that it appeared to struggle when I first tested it. I then pulled the auger since I was that far along and found the bottom bushing had some scoring going on so I polished both ends of the auger shaft and put it back together with a sparing amount of high temp grease. There is a flat disk that is part of the auger on the bottom that rides against the nylon gasket on the bottom mounting plate that had built up with pellet fines, it was packed together and about the size of a 1/2" washer or so and I cleaned that up. I am going to order a new bushing and will probably check that at least every other year and clean it if necessary. That is the first time I have had that off since I got the stove in 2016.

Here is the frustrating part, for the last week or so mine seemed to be doing well, no burn issues, keeping up heat wise and so on with the trim dial at -4. After I did my cleanup and work on the auger it is running best on +2. I had a pellet stove years ago, forget the brand, in a house I owned and it just had a dial for the pellet feed control and that was it. You did have to also mess with it but at least it was more straight forward and had more noticable effect than the pelpro and the trim pot. It would be nice if they would share there program for there firmware so people could at least understand the control side of the stove. I don't believe pelpro has any field techs traveling around doing repairs or installs so you would expect them to have a world class tech support center and documentation on there stoves. But from what is have gathered from others is they basically take your symptoms you report and sell you parts.


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## pelletstoveuser (Dec 26, 2022)

One other note on up sizing the exhaust fan would be that you would have to somehow compensate the pellet feed also. I believe a little more air would help on these stoves when the dial is turned up but when they go to low fire or are set on low you would have to be able to either throttle the fan back to match the oem CFM or increase pellet feed. Again with out the support from pelpro to allow you to modify the firmware then you would probably have to install your own timer circuit for the pellet feed.


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## little-willie (Jan 3, 2023)

I just read this entire thread, very interesting and informative, especially the combustion air and draft discussions.
The only thing that I have to add, concerning forced combustion air vs. forced draft is, all modern gas furnaces, that I've worked on, use a forced draft/exhaust blower. 
The draft must be made, a vacuum or sail switch must prove, before the ignition and gas valves can operate.


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## pelletstoveuser (Jan 4, 2023)

The vacuum switch in these basically interrupts the auger feed and stops the feeding of pellets so long as it sees no vacuum. An update on mine, it has been doing quite well over all and very good when we had a stretch of days with the wind howling out of the North West. Generally a NW wind, as I stated previously, will just about snuff out the flame even if it was completely clean. On those days we had the strong storm come through I did notice it affecting the flame a bit but not nearly as much as it did pervious to few mods I did for airflow. The other interesting point I noticed is I don't see any significant increase of ash in behind the baffles in the path of the combustion fan intake area or chimney, and that is with not cleaning it out until the ash gets about 3/4 or so up the side of the burn pot housing. The most I have seen in the burn pot after letting run several days is maybe a 1/4" built up in some areas around the holes.


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## Shoe1757 (Jan 4, 2023)

pelletstoveuser said:


> The vacuum switch in these basically interrupts the auger feed and stops the feeding of pellets so long as it sees no vacuum. An update on mine, it has been doing quite well over all and very good when we had a stretch of days with the wind howling out of the North West. Generally a NW wind, as I stated previously, will just about snuff out the flame even if it was completely clean. On those days we had the strong storm come through I did notice it affecting the flame a bit but not nearly as much as it did pervious to few mods I did for airflow. The other interesting point I noticed is I don't see any significant increase of ash in behind the baffles in the path of the combustion fan intake area or chimney, and that is with not cleaning it out until the ash gets about 3/4 or so up the side of the burn pot housing. The most I have seen in the burn pot after letting run several days is maybe a 1/4" built up in some areas around the holes.


Is this still with running your burn pot with .150 holes in the bottom and everything else welded up?


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## pelletstoveuser (Jan 6, 2023)

Shoe1757 said:


> Is this still with running your burn pot with .150 holes in the bottom and everything else welded up?


Yes it has been running all winter and doing quite well. As I stated in an earlier post it really made a difference for me when the wind is out of the north west, the flame doesn't get snuffed out by the back draft like it used to. I had to experiment with the trim a bit and found the -3 to -4 is where it works best. I was actually looking at hopper extensions for them since I don't have to shut it down everyday to clean the burn pot out like I used to. I could never justify adding a hopper extension if I had to be there to service it daily anyway I figured I can also throw in another bag of pellets after I cleaned it. I generally don't shut it down to clean it until I see the ash in front of the burn pot build up an an half to two above the bottom of the glass. Depending if it is set on low or turned up really determines how many days it will run before it gets that much build up in it but I generally don't have to clean more than twice a week and in some cases once if it hasn't be turned up above low much.


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## Shoe1757 (Yesterday at 6:11 AM)

pelletstoveuser said:


> Yes it has been running all winter and doing quite well. As I stated in an earlier post it really made a difference for me when the wind is out of the north west, the flame doesn't get snuffed out by the back draft like it used to. I had to experiment with the trim a bit and found the -3 to -4 is where it works best. I was actually looking at hopper extensions for them since I don't have to shut it down everyday to clean the burn pot out like I used to. I could never justify adding a hopper extension if I had to be there to service it daily anyway I figured I can also throw in another bag of pellets after I cleaned it. I generally don't shut it down to clean it until I see the ash in front of the burn pot build up an an half to two above the bottom of the glass. Depending if it is set on low or turned up really determines how many days it will run before it gets that much build up in it but I generally don't have to clean more than twice a week and in some cases once if it hasn't be turned up above low much.


I've been doing a bunch of testing with modifying my burn pot. So far the best results I've gotten were with 3 holes above igniter welded, angle piece in rear blocked off, front angle cut off and welded, 6 holes in the bottom. Also used a carbide Burr to angle all the existing holes upwards. 

I noticed how much the speed on the convection blower changes. I am going to install a relay so it runs max speed any time it is on and see how that works. Once I see how that works, next will be wiring in a thermostat so that it runs on high when called on for heat, and then shuts down once temperature is set. I leave it on setting 1 or 2 to keep my house at 72 and I get a lot more.ash with a low flame. Once I figure out the relay wiring for max convection fan speed and how to wire in the thermostat I'll make a post if others would like to try.


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