# solar comfort?



## Jotul_Rockland (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi guys,

Is Solar comfort space heater good enough to justify $400? Alternative is an oil filled radiant heater ( $70)

Thx


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## begreen (Mar 5, 2011)

Just an EdenPure competitor and no more special unless you like a $400 cabinet on a $29 heater. The oil filled radiator will to the same job just as well.


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## EatenByLimestone (Mar 5, 2011)

Electric resistance is electric resistance.  For a given input you will only get so much output.  For a standard 1500 amps IIRC, you will get 5100 BTU/hr no matter what you cover the heater in.

Matt


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## midwestcoast (Mar 5, 2011)

Here's a similar thread:  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/59643/


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## rowerwet (Mar 6, 2011)

the electric radiator will do a better job thanks to the oil in the fins getting the heat to more surface area and even some radiant heat IMO


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## henkmeuzelaar (Mar 7, 2011)

EatenByLimestone said:
			
		

> *Electric resistance is electric resistance*.  For a given input you will only get so much output.  For a standard 1500 amps IIRC, you will get 5100 BTU/hr no matter what you cover the heater in.
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> Matt



If you're only interested in heating a house your remark is of course true.  In fact, pretty much ALL electric power used by a house (whether for lights, running motors, TVs, heaters, etc., but with the exception of outside lights and de-icing heaters) ends up heating the house.

On the other hand, if the primary goal is to keep the occupants of the house comfortable amidst wide fluctuations in outside air temperatures and solar fluxes, it pays to start distinguishing between different types of heat sources (radiant, convective, conductive) and, in particular, about the distribution, direction and speed of the various heat flows throughout the house.

This is where electric heaters, in general, excel and where different forms of electric heat can make a huge difference. I could go into a long discussion of how different areas in the home and/or different activities of the occupants at different times of the day/night cycle benefit from radiant versus convective versus conductive types of heat but I suspect that most of us must have been born in a house  and will have spent sufficient time indoors to know the answers already.

Nonetheless, I often read on hearth.com how more than a few of us are quite content to bring the entire home up to, let's say, 80 degrees F. Certainly, this is better than living in the cold.  When compared to our indoor lighting choices, however, few would be happy to simply put one big 500 W light bulb in every room. Again, this is better than living in the dark. Nonetheless, we all seem to know exactly how we want our rooms and passageway lighted for maximum utility, comfort and ambiance. 

Although some of the more ornamental lamps might actually be quite expensive and not very efficient in terms of lighting a room, one rarely hears anyone call that a waste of money. So why be so hard on someone spending extra money on a nice looking Amish mantle or whatever else the more ornamental heaters might be called?

I agree that some of the earlier examples of "electric fireplaces" are just as ugly as the earliest examples of fake flowers and plants. There was a time, long ago, that no self-respecting household would allow such crude, fake floral pieces, let alone Xmas trees....    Today, however, one would be hard-pressed to find a US home that does not have any of these artifical floral ornaments somewhere. Besides the fact that the price is right, many of these fake flowers, plants or even small trees have become so convincingly real-looking that it may at times be wise to add a little sign saying: " please don't water !" 

My prediction is that within a decade or two, some fake electric fireplaces will have become so convincingly real (think holographic techniques, etc) that one might be tempted to try and light a candle by holding it in the "flames".

Henk


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## WhitePine (Mar 7, 2011)

PyMS said:
			
		

> Although some of the more ornamental lamps might actually be quite expensive and not very efficient in terms of lighting a room, one rarely hears anyone call that a waste of money. So why be so hard on someone spending extra money on a nice looking Amish mantle or whatever else the more ornamental heaters might be called?



Nice looking?  Ornamental?  OK, that's a taste thing. 

Here's the problem with these very expensive, heavily marketed "fireplaces." They are sold as a way to lower the buyer's heating costs. The aesthetics bit is part of the deliberate misdirection built into the sales pitch. Full page ads full of flowery prose and wonderment conceal a simple fact from the public. The "secret" to lowering your heating costs, buried artfully in the reams of verbiage, is everyone crowding around said fireplace in whatever room it's placed, while the thermostat is turned down in the rest of the house. You can do the same thing with a $29, or less, heater from Wally World. 

The target market is composed of people struggling with heating bills, a lot of whom live paycheck to paycheck, who are looking for a way to save money. These people are suckered into paying a small fortune for something with no more functional value than a portable heater that costs 15 to 20 times less than the magic fireplace.

These products are sold by marketeers who have no conscience.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Mar 7, 2011)

WhitePine said:
			
		

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I don't see anything wrong with seeing them sold as a way to lower people's heating bills. If used wisely, e.g. to heat up a small room or corner were the furnace doesn't reach so well, rather than simply crank up the whole house thermostat, they have the obvious potential to save money, especially in areas of the country where electricity is relatively cheap.

Of course, there should be truth in advertising and we all know you are not going to find this on the internet, unless buying from a big national chain with a reputation to lose. When Costco got only one report of an Eden Pure melting they recalled ALL units and immediately took them off the shelf.  Also, I never saw Costco advertising that any of the space heaters sold could simply replace a home's primary heating system. 

I have personally bought about 12 electric space heaters from a variety of large stores (including HomeDepot and Walmart) and have never run into the kind of exaggerated, no-conscience advertising you describe. I am sure you are right that it can be found, though. Perhaps among the same Google ads that promise to reduce your tummy and enlarge other body parts using "an amazingly clever method your medical specialist doesn't want you to know about" ?  

IMHO the main problem with the various portable electric space-heaters is safety. There is a looooong list of house-fires blamed on space heaters in general (including wood-burning appliances) and electric heaters in particular. So, my first concern would be safety, rather than price.  By scanning the recall lists and looking at consumer organization test results, it is possible to avoid the worst among them, I believe.  Just buying the cheapest one around is probably not the safest approach. Among the forced recalls last year (because of safety concerns) were several space-heater models sold by Dollar General......

Henk

Edit: BTW, the "Solar Comfort" system that started this thread doesn't appear to have generated very many complaints or safety concerns so far.


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## semipro (Mar 7, 2011)

WhitePine said:
			
		

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+1.  Very deceptive advertising which is obviously targeted at some that can least afford it.   In most cases its a rather cheap Chinese-build quartz heater inside a wooden housing purportedly built by the Amish or some such.    Even worse than those that advertise "high efficiency" electric baseboard heaters.


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## henkmeuzelaar (Mar 7, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

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I share your sentiments about deceptive advertising. 

However, do you want me to believe that Underwriter's Laboratories would approve "a quartz heater inside a wooden housing" for sale on the US market? What if the fan stops?  Also, I believe that quartz heaters are quite a bit more expensive than simple resistive wire heaters; a fact that is probably not lost on the Chinese manufacturers.

Electric baseboard heaters, however, especially those without any type of fan and supposed to be mounted under large window are indeed one of the more ridiculous heating contraptions. Just go outside and feel the window get a little bit hotter when the baseboard heater is switched on. I am a big believer in heat exchangers, but not in running them backwards so as to try and heat Planet Earth..... 

Henk


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## henkmeuzelaar (Mar 10, 2011)

PyMS said:
			
		

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Well, it's time for me to eat some crow.....

I just saw an advertisement for a Suntech infrared (quartz tube) heater in a wooden box in a Heartland America mail/internet-order catalog that did not only look dangerous (presuming these are real quartz heaters in close proximity to real wood) but used deceptive advertising as well, particularly in terms of promised performance and savings ("warms up to 1,000 square feet for just pennies a day").  

Although Heartland America is not exactly HomeDepot or Walmart it still is fairly well respected as far as mail/internet order catalog companies go and I have ordered quite a few items from them over the years, most of which have worked as advertised.  Also, the Suntech brand is well respected. Similar Suntech heaters sell in the $200-300 range on Amazon, so the Heartland deal at $ 150 is very attractive.

Clearly, this is not the $29 heater from the Wally store that White Pine was talking about. Nor am I quite ready to identify it completely with the "cheap Chinese-built quartz tube heater in a wooden housing" that Semipro was talking about.  Chinese -- of course, quartz tube heater -- yes, wooden housing -- indeed, but "cheap" ?? Not exactly, and thus perhaps less of a threat to the struggling families that the previous respondents were rightly concerned with.

If anyone happens to have such a heater at home I would be very curious to know what kind of safeguards are provided, if any, to prevent a failing thermostat, an accidental line overvoltage or perhaps operation in a too narrow enclosed space from starting a fire??

Henk


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