# Better Coal Sifter



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Okay, so I wanted to sift the cold coals from the ashes without making a big mess, and the KoalKeeper shovel was a little clumsy and slow.  So I took a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth, cut a 15"+ square piece and folded the edges to about 13" square.  I slide it under the ashes from the front to the back, and lift the coals out of the powdery ash.  A gentle shake and the stuff separates without a dusty cloud.
file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/334_DSCN0079.JPG334_DSCN0077.JPG
I take the mat out and place it over the ash can while I scoop or vacuum out the ashes.
Then I slide the coals back in and reload the stove.  Alternately, you can place the sifter over the whole mess and use the ash vac, avoiding all those clogs you get when trying to vacuum around the coals.
I know I ain't getting any prizes for my invention, but it sure works for me.

I would have shown more pictures, but I haven;t figured out how to post them without downloading software to this computer.(not mine)


----------



## usner21 (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> Okay, so I wanted to sift the cold coals from the ashes without making a big mess, and the KoalKeeper shovel was a little clumsy and slow.  So I took a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth, cut a 15"+ square piece and folded the edges to about 13" square.  I slide it under the ashes from the front to the back, and lift the coals out of the powdery ash.  A gentle shake and the stuff separates without a dusty cloud.
> file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/334_DSCN0079.JPG334_DSCN0077.JPG
> I take the mat out and place it over the ash can while I scoop or vacuum out the ashes.
> Then I slide the coals back in and reload the stove.  Alternately, you can place the sifter over the whole mess and use the ash vac, avoiding all those clogs you get when trying to vacuum around the coals.
> ...



How stiff is that stuff?


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

It was stiff enough to lift quite a few coals due to less than perfect wood.  I was concerned about that when I was making it, but found it adequate.  About the stiffness of thick cardboard, with better tensile strength, of course.


----------



## usner21 (Feb 10, 2012)

Interesting.  I may give that a try.  I am dealing with 20-25% moisture in my wood this year so i get a little more coaling than I would like.  I need to keep the ash cleaned out more frequently to leave room for the reloads and the coal bed!


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

usner21 said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I may give that a try.  I am dealing with 20-25% moisture in my wood this year so i get a little more coaling than I would like.  I need to keep the ash cleaned out more frequently to leave room for the reloads and the coal bed!



I feel your pain!  Here is another shot of the screen


----------



## usner21 (Feb 10, 2012)

I assume I can grab that at any hardware store?


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Yes.  I actually got mine at Home depot in the garden center outside.  It is sold where fencing is, because that's what it is used for.  The tern "hardware CLOTH" is something of a misnomer; it is actually metal mesh screening.  People use it to screen compost & soil and such as well.
If you've ever seen those little hermit crabs they sell at the beach, this is what the cages are made of.  Comes in a roll.  Not really cheap, you will pay about $10 for it, but it has lots of uses, you have to just think them up ;-)


----------



## Dune (Feb 10, 2012)

If that is traditional hardware cloth, it is hot dipped in zinc. If it is the newer cheap garbage it is electroplated with zinc. 
Either way, zinc is an extremely poisonous heavy metal with a very low melting temperature. 
The effects of zinc poisoning, known as metal fume fever are well documented, cumulative, progressive and eventualy fatal, with no known cure or treatment. 

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I highly recomend you find a different way to deal with excess coals.

Call me a drama queen if you must, but zinc should never be placed in contact with hot coals, indoors.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Good point, and thanks for that, Dune! 
However, I use this on cold coals only.


----------



## BobUrban (Feb 10, 2012)

x2 on the Zinc thing.  as a welder and blacksmith you try to avoid that stuff.  I think I will make a nice shovel with a large mouth and use expanded metal for the bottom.  For a cheep and easy you could take a cheep stove shovel and dril large hole in it??  Just seems safer than taking the ash and coals ou of the stove and then returning them after sifting.  Especially with a potentially toxic tool creating fumes yo and your family are breathing.  I do like the "out of the box" thinking though.  Necessity is the mother of all invention!


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

BobUrban said:
			
		

> x2 on the Zinc thing.  as a welder and blacksmith you try to avoid that stuff.  I think I will make a nice shovel with a large mouth and use expanded metal for the bottom.  For a cheep and easy you could take a cheep stove shovel and dril large hole in it??  Just seems safer than taking the ash and coals ou of the stove and then returning them after sifting.  Especially with a potentially toxic tool creating fumes yo and your family are breathing.  I do like the "out of the box" thinking though.  Necessity is the mother of all invention!



As I stated, I use it for cool coals; however, would you think that the tiny mass of this screen would be all that toxic?  I can't imagine it being any more dangerous than having two galvanized nails inadvertently left in a cut up pallet and burned.  Now I am curious!


----------



## krysssyann (Feb 10, 2012)

I mentioned this in another post before I had tried it but along the same idea, I got a metal fryer oil skimmer (mesh basket) that works FANTASTIC!  I push everything to the back of the stove, use the scoop to sift the coals and dump them in front.  Then you can just use your ask shovel to remove any ash you want.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/170560368308?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

This and my poker are the best fireplace tools I have and it has made finding even the few coals left in the ash for a restart SUPER easy, and it was under $7 shipped


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

krysssyann said:
			
		

> I mentioned this in another post before I had tried it but along the same idea, I got a metal fryer oil skimmer (mesh basket) that works FANTASTIC!  I push everything to the back of the stove, use the scoop to sift the coals and dump them in front.  Then you can just use your ask shovel to remove any ash you want.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/170560368308?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> This and my poker are the best fireplace tools I have and it has made finding even the few coals left in the ash for a restart SUPER easy, and it was under $7 shipped


Wow, thanks, Krisssyann!!  Though I don't think I will get Welder's Fever from heating zinc coatings in coals that reach no where near the temperatures of arc welding, I like your tool, too.


----------



## Chettt (Feb 10, 2012)

Nice idea! You could just leave the screen on the ash barrel outside and carry the coals back in with another bucket. I use my hot coals for cooking on the grill about once a week.


----------



## Dune (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> Good point, and thanks for that, Dune!
> However, I use this on cold coals only.



I am very relieved to hear this. 
Yes, it is that dangerous.
The difference between a hand tool in your parlor and nails in your stove is vast.


----------



## Jags (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> I can't imagine it being any more dangerous than having two galvanized nails inadvertently left in a cut up pallet and burned.  Now I am curious!



Actually, it is, Firebroad.  Not saying that you do this, but if HOT coals were the issue, there is enough zinc on that stuff to outgas into the home a DANGEROUS level of poisonous gasses.  And if I am not mistaken, the poisoning that Dune is referring to is cumulative.  Little doses add up.  About the nails in pallet wood - unless you burn with the doors open and allow smoke to enter your room, the bad stuff is going up your stack.

For the record, hardware stores often carry expanded metal.  If you find unpainted stuff, it should be completely untreated (safe) carbon steel.  No harm, no foul and should do the same thing.  Actually, I think you will find it stiffer than the hardware cloth.


----------



## oldspark (Feb 10, 2012)

I can remember when we welded galv. metal at my old job, it could make people sick but it took a fair amount it seemed like. No way would I take the chance though.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> firebroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a piece of that, but the holes are to big for my applications.  But I'm not welding this stuff, and i'm not leaving it in the firebox.  I'm just sifting a few cold lumps of coal.


----------



## Jags (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> I have a piece of that, but the holes are to big for my applications.  But I'm not welding this stuff, and i'm not leaving it in the firebox.  I'm just sifting a few cold lumps of coal.



Yep, I understand, but you must keep in mind that this thread could be read by literally hundreds or thousands of people (Okay - dozens  ), that are cruising the forum.  Clear info is a good thing.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Jags said:
			
		

> Yep, I understand, but you must keep in mind that this thread could be read by literally hundreds or thousands of people (Okay - dozens  ), that are cruising the forum.  Clear info is a good thing.



Point taken--and a GOOD one. :coolsmile:


----------



## begreen (Feb 10, 2012)

They make hardware cloth in stainless steel mesh, and expanded metal is better because it's rigid. But I would rather have a handle on it like the KoalKeeper. 

http://www.koalkeeper.com/


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

BeGreen said:
			
		

> They make hardware cloth in stainless steel mesh, and expanded metal is better because it's rigid. But I would rather have a handle on it like the KoalKeeper.
> 
> http://www.koalkeeper.com/



Got one of those, that's why I fashioned something else.  Too awkward for me. :-S


----------



## Wood Duck (Feb 10, 2012)

usner21 said:
			
		

> I assume I can grab that at any hardware store?



No! Don't accept cheap substitutes. Order your Firebroad(TM) Brand Coal sifter today for three easy payments of $39.99 plus shipping and handling. Send your money c/o Firebroad, somewhere in Maryland, if I recall correctly.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

Wood Duck said:
			
		

> usner21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ROFLMAO  Stainless steal er, I mean steel, extra of course...


----------



## Creature (Feb 10, 2012)

About once a week when my stove is (relatively) cold.  I put a 5Q stainless steel colander (that I also use in my charcoal grill) in it and scoop everything I can into it, give it a good shake so I can keep a good layer of ash in the stove and remove any small clinkers.  What's leftover goes in the ash bucket.  During the week I just rake the coals around (front, left/right, depending on the type of burn and load) and they either get consumed in the next burn or sifted out in the weekly chore.  

Works for me.

That said, eventually I might make a better charcoal grate for my grill and I'll build (or have it built) so I can use it in the stove as a coal sifter too.


----------



## cptoneleg (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> Okay, so I wanted to sift the cold coals from the ashes without making a big mess, and the KoalKeeper shovel was a little clumsy and slow.  So I took a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth, cut a 15"+ square piece and folded the edges to about 13" square.  I slide it under the ashes from the front to the back, and lift the coals out of the powdery ash.  A gentle shake and the stuff separates without a dusty cloud.
> file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/file:///C:/Users/SFine/Downloads/334_DSCN0079.JPG334_DSCN0077.JPG
> I take the mat out and place it over the ash can while I scoop or vacuum out the ashes.
> Then I slide the coals back in and reload the stove.  Alternately, you can place the sifter over the whole mess and use the ash vac, avoiding all those clogs you get when trying to vacuum around the coals.
> ...





  I can not  in my wildest dreams think of a better waste of time than seperating ash from those coals.


----------



## LLigetfa (Feb 10, 2012)

Some folks use a deep fryer basket that I think is probably made of stainless steel.  Me, I just use a coal rake and rake them to the front, leaving them in the stove.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 10, 2012)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> Some folks use a deep fryer basket that I think is probably made of stainless steel.  Me, I just use a coal rake and rake them to the front, leaving them in the stove.



But how do you clean the ashes out without taking the coals with it?


----------



## begreen (Feb 10, 2012)

I do the same. I move the big coals over to one side, then shovel out the ash. Some coals come out with the ashes, but not the big chunks. It's no big deal to get some small coals as long as the ash can is metal and kept on a safe non combustible surface. This method is certainly faster and easier.


----------



## LLigetfa (Feb 10, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> LLigetfa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I first shove everything to the back and then rake the coals forward, leaving the ashes in the back.  I reach over the coals with the shovel to get at the ashes in the back.  BTW, I do this with hot coals.  If I let the stove go cold, the coals burn down to ashes so I don't ever have cold coals.


----------



## MarkinNC (Feb 10, 2012)

Not trying to be be disrespectful with my post, but, I try and minimize the exposure of those fine particular particles in my home.  I believe learned burners would avoid exposure to smoke and fine particulate matter in the home and this is more easily accomplished with a EPA stove.  I believe the science is on my side.


----------



## Huntindog1 (Feb 11, 2012)

after reading this post I went home looked around and took a piece of that expanded metal aluminum gutter guard. I have the heavier type some of that stuff is made lighter.

First thing I did was remove the gutter clips 
Then I folded it in half too make it half as long and double thick.
Then put the edges in a vise and bent the sides up to form a square channel with 1" sides.  
Works great as I just use it like a scoop in the stove and shake it a little and it shifts the ash very well.


----------



## Locust Post (Feb 11, 2012)

I can not  in my wildest dreams think of a better waste of time than seperating ash from those coals.[/quote]
I gotta go with this......I cannot think of a good reason to sift out coals. Push them to the back or side and shovel out some ash. The coals are usually on the top of the ash. Why would it matter if you scooped a few up with the ashes hot or cold. As long as you have some in there to help get another load going good you will have plenty again after that burns down.


----------



## Woody Stover (Feb 11, 2012)

Dune said:
			
		

> zinc is an extremely poisonous heavy metal with a very low melting temperature.
> The effects of zinc poisoning, known as metal fume fever are well documented, cumulative, progressive and eventualy fatal, with no known cure or treatment.


Wow. I recently found a small "Bud Light" metal bucket and started using it to remove ashes. A couple of times when I got more hot coals in there, I noticed a peculiar metallic odor when I carried the bucket outside.  :sick:  That bucket is hereby retired from ash duty. Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## savageactor7 (Feb 11, 2012)

Our stove rarely gets cool enough to do that so we just plug on; raking coals forward, throwing in a split or 2 and removing a shovel or 2 of ash when the opportunity presents itself. It's just too hot to stand in front of that open door for long...

...and even then with minimum exposure, the ash dust demands regular  :grrr: dusting. But the money saved is worth it.


----------



## ScotO (Feb 11, 2012)

do they make stainless steel mesh?  For some reason I recall seeing that before.  I never leave my fire go out, it's burning from October till April, unless we get a really really mild spell.  So I will be needing something like a stainless mesh, and I will have to make a forked handle to accomidate it in those hot coals.  That would work great in an application like mine where I never let the stove go completely cold.  I would only use it to seperate ash from coal in an instance where I have a wood like cherry or ash burning, they both seem to 'coal' a lot more than other woods.....


----------



## Dune (Feb 11, 2012)

Since I only empty my ashes a few times a year (once so far this year) I don't worry about losing a few coals.


----------



## MofoG23 (Feb 11, 2012)

Hmmmm....add me to the list of scratching their head about this.

I'm not questioning what the OP did, but I'm wondering about the entire practice in general.  When I clean my stove/insert out, I scoop out the extra ash/coals together, then leave enough to start it backup.  The thought never crossed my mind to "sift" out coals.

Can someone explain what I'm missing here?

 :coolsmile:


----------



## LLigetfa (Feb 11, 2012)

Scotty Overkill said:
			
		

> do they make stainless steel mesh?


I'm positive they do but it doesn't have to be SS, just not zinc coated.  There are lots of things that could be used... old BBQ grille, oven rack, cookie cooling rack, etc. but I would never remove coals from the stove to sift them but rather sift them in the stove and set them off to one side.

I'm only concerned with saving hot coals the size of walnuts or bigger.  Anything smaller just goes out with the ashes.  Some folk will save their ashes in a large metal garbage can outside and then sift through it later when they are emptying it.  If I wanted to save cold charcoal for other uses, that is how and when I would do it, certainly not inside the house on the hearth.


----------



## daleeper (Feb 12, 2012)

In years past, I would have agreed with the naysayers about worrying about sorting the coals from the ashes.  

This year the locust I am burning leaves coals, and I am sending more coals out with the ash than I would like to.  I would not however want to sift it outside the stove, because of the extra dust and risk of letting hot embers loose in the house.  I use a scoop, and like the idea of a screen on the bottom of one.  I have also seen pictures of a home-made small "rake" to pull the coals to one side, then scoop out ashes.  I will be making one of each when I get time, and see which one gets used the most.


----------



## madison (Feb 12, 2012)

First off,  you are using this bucket and sifter with hot coals on top of hardwood floors????

How much of the fine ash ends up in te bucket?  VS In the room?  And how many char spots are on the hardwood floor?

It takes me ~ 5 mins to use the kolkeeper, and 99% of the ash ends up in the bucket and not the room.

Nonetheless, thanks for idea and  -- "thinking outside stove"


----------



## LLigetfa (Feb 12, 2012)

madison said:
			
		

> First off,  you are using this bucket and sifter with hot coals on top of hardwood floors????


In the OP's defense, the coals were cold.


			
				firebroad said:
			
		

> Okay, so I wanted to sift the cold coals from the ashes without making a big mess, and the KoalKeeper shovel was a little clumsy and slow.


----------



## ScotO (Feb 12, 2012)

OK you guys got me intrigued.  Now I have seen the KoalKeeper shovel, and it's too dang small.  So I was at a local surplus store the other day for some other items I needed and I went to the metal department (all kinds of goodies over there for fabrication) and found some materials to create, what I would consider, the right tool for my application.  I want something big enough to get the coals sifted out of the ashes quicker than the koalkeeper, and I want it done INSIDE the stove, while the stove is still HOT.  I got a material list and a design, but I have to buy much more than I need to make only one (probably enough material to make 10 of these sifters, because the material is in bulk).  If there is enough interest, and if someone else out there wants something that will do the job and do it well, let me know and I will make 5 or 10 of them if some others split the costs with me.  It will probably average out to around 15 bucks each sifter, and it will definately work.  I'll try to make up a sketch of my idea later on.


----------



## madison (Feb 12, 2012)

LLigetfa said:
			
		

> madison said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Opps, thanks LL.  

 I would still catch he** if the wife saw me doing that over the hard wood floors.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 13, 2012)

madison said:
			
		

> LLigetfa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The COLD coals are NOT sifted outside of the stove.  The sifting is done INSIDE the COLD firebox, then moved CAREFULLY to the top of the bucket while the ashes are scooped out.  I lift the screen to deposit the ashes, then replace coals into stove.  There is minimum mess, and less dust than using the shovel.  No, it does not flop around, it is sturdy enough to hold the coals securely, yet flexible enough to get the stuff in the front of the box, unlike the Koal Keeper.  I still use that tool, but for different applications, such as when ashes are hot. 

 I like ScottyOoverkill's and Huntingdog1's modifications.  Scott, can't wait to see what you come up with.


----------



## ironworker (Feb 13, 2012)

Is saving a couple BTU's actually worth all that effort, I save what I can to relite and dump the rest, it takes a couple of minutes and no mess.


----------



## cptoneleg (Feb 13, 2012)

firebroad said:
			
		

> madison said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  When I let my fire burn out and get cold there are  "O" coals left it is all ash - looks like the same old problem the "wood" ain't right if your wood was dry there would be no coals left to sift.


----------



## firebroad (Feb 13, 2012)

cptoneleg said:
			
		

> firebroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are exactly right.  However, I refuse to burn heating oil at $4 per gallon while I wait another year or two.  I had the stove put in to use it, and I am doing the best I can with what I have to work with.


----------



## cptoneleg (Feb 13, 2012)

Thats right the heck with the oil,  first yr with my new stove I burned mostly 6 month css Oak 7 24s kept my house warm,  I just didn't tell anyone on here that I was sinning.  :zip:


----------



## firebroad (Feb 13, 2012)

cptoneleg said:
			
		

> Thats right the heck with the oil,  first yr with my new stove I burned mostly 6 month css Oak 7 24s kept my house warm,  I just didn't tell anyone on here that I was sinning.  :zip:



 :lol:


----------



## oldspark (Feb 13, 2012)

cptoneleg said:
			
		

> Thats right the heck with the oil,  first yr with my new stove I burned mostly 6 month css Oak 7 24s kept my house warm,  I just didn't tell anyone on here that I was sinning.  :zip:


 At that it was better wood than many people have, still had to suck with that dense of wood. Do you know what the moisture content was?


----------



## cptoneleg (Feb 13, 2012)

I had read on here about the new stoves and dry wood, so by june I had css three cords of chesnut oak, stacked single rows with small splits when I started burning MM read an average of 30%,  I had about one cord left from year before that averaged 20%, I mixed these and was very satisfied with the heat.


----------



## bwise.157 (May 27, 2014)

I made this one from rebar and 3/4" 10 gauge expanded metal.  Shovel part is 12" X 6".


----------



## begreen (May 27, 2014)

At first I thought that was a side attachment to the tractor. If so that would be for some major sized burn pits.


----------



## bwise.157 (May 27, 2014)

Oops,  guess it does look like that!   That would be a huge fire pit to be sifting!  I will tell the wife I need a bigger garage!


----------

