# I Have Spent My Whole Life Being Told By People From The Northeast..



## BrotherBart (Dec 2, 2013)

That "those people just don't know how to drive on this stuff". 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/01/65-car-pileup-massachusetts-i-290/3797527/

Nobody knows how to drive on ice. Period.


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## fbelec (Dec 2, 2013)

that's for sure. these same people think they solved the problem of traction by buying a awd car. i get a laugh at them a little further up the road dangling over the guardrail


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## Ehouse (Dec 2, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> That "those people just don't know how to drive on this stuff".
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/01/65-car-pileup-massachusetts-i-290/3797527/
> 
> Nobody knows how to drive on ice. Period.




We know how to ski on it though!


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## Beer Belly (Dec 2, 2013)

I gotta admit, I do chuckle when I hear the south gets a few inches of snow and the town practically shuts down. As far as driving on ice.....slow and steady, and you _might_ get to where you're going.....better off waiting it out if you can. Oh yeah, I'm that guy in the four wheel drive truck that is just chugging along with the flow of traffic.....not in a hurry to put it in a ditch (although, I do pass a few cars, but not a lot)


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## peakbagger (Dec 2, 2013)

Most folks in northern New England just forget how to drive for the first few storms and it only takes one or two folks who are clueless to cause accidents. The local tow firm pays for a year of truck payments in the fist 3 or 4 storms of the season. A lot of what he pulls out of the ditch are AWD cars and SUVs, sure they can get going faster but once they hit minimal traction they just have a lot more momentum.

To be really serious for winter studded tires are the way to go, I don't want to put up with them so I go with Nokia's which are the next best alternative.

By the way it varies by state. NH get s lot of tourists so they go for bare tar, while Maine tends to go with plowed on occasion in the center lanes and bare tar when the sun comes out. I live near the state line and its quite noticeable.


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## Adios Pantalones (Dec 2, 2013)

It's the worst in places that rarely get it, but as a life long dweller of New England- everyone is an idiot here in bad weather.

A little rain and traffic is terrible.
A little snow and everyone drives way too slow, or way too fast.
Worst are the people that think they are invincible in their jacked up top-heavy 4x4 muddin' trucks that are continuously being hauled hauled out of a ditch.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 2, 2013)

On snow I always drive as if I were going 20 mph faster than my current speed. On icy roads, I double that.


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## woodgeek (Dec 2, 2013)

what about ice truckers?  I was told semis were good on ice.


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## Free BTUs (Dec 2, 2013)

It was at 0630 on Sunday morning....the majority of people in that pile up were out of staters heading back South after the Thanksgiving holiday.


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## altmartion (Dec 2, 2013)

I live in a tourist town. most of them come from nj, pa, mass and conn. I also live in what is called a snow belt. it is not uncommon to get 6-8 feet in a couple days. I do see a lot more out of towners in ditches than locals. these guy's come up here in escalade's, rovers and other big expensive rigs, they pop em in 4 high and hammer down. with little respect to others on the roads. then you find them rolled over in a field a couple hundred yards ahead. we have locals doing this too, but not near as many. I don't think it's that they don't know what they are doing but they realize how much snow is actually on the road.


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## webbie (Dec 2, 2013)

Being a futurist, I can only wonder why we don't have instant updates on our phones, goog maps, etc. as soon as any major road gets a coating of black ice.

It will happen. trust me.


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## begreen (Dec 2, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I live in a tourist town. most of them come from nj, pa, mass and conn. I also live in what is called a snow belt. it is not uncommon to get 6-8 feet in a couple days. I do see a lot more out of towners in ditches than locals. these guy's come up here in escalade's, rovers and other big expensive rigs, they pop em in 4 high and hammer down. with little respect to others on the roads. then you find them rolled over in a field a couple hundred yards ahead. we have locals doing this too, but not near as many. I don't think it's that they don't know what they are doing but they realize how much snow is actually on the road.




These road warriors scare me the most. They have no idea that their mass when on ice is actually a detriment. Instead of using commonsense they barrel along like they are more important than keeping the roads safe for all. Me and a bus sat on a hill in a blizzard for 15 minutes while an SUV idiot had to extricate himself after passing the bus, spinning out and getting stuck. After he finally got help to get unwedged the bus and I slowly crept up the hill with a 2WD Camry and made it.


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## altmartion (Dec 2, 2013)

begreen said:


> These road warriors scare me the most. They have no idea that their mass when on ice is actually a detriment. Instead of using commonsense they barrel along like they are more important than keeping the roads safe for all. Me and a bus sat on a hill in a blizzard for 15 minutes while an SUV idiot had to extricate himself after passing the bus, spinning out and getting stuck. After he finally got help to get unwedged the bus and I slowly crept up the hill.


I always beep and wave. lol


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## UncleJoe (Dec 2, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I always beep and wave. lol



Now that's just mean. But I like it.


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## BrotherBart (Dec 2, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I always beep and wave. lol



Kinda did that myself one time. In 1988 a week after I bought my new S-10 Blazer, I had been at work 40 miles from here for a few hours we got one of those slick messes and they eventually closed the office. I headed out on the back roads enjoying my new four wheel drive. In the distance ahead I saw two cars. One in each ditch on opposite sides of the road. Must have dodged each other and went off the road. I perked up because I had a brand new tow strap in the truck. As I got closer I could see through the snow that it a a BMW on one side and a Volvo on the other side. Drove right between'em and went on home.


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## midwestcoast (Dec 2, 2013)

Anywhere I've been it's the same. First couple snows of the year everyone drives like idiots. Either they don't slow down at all or they're going so slow they are a huge danger to everyone else.
I didn't think that was me until this year. One morning in October going to work I hit black ice on an off-ramp & nearly lost it. Never even considered ice because it was above freezing at my house when I left.  That could have been a bad scene, but I got lucky & recovered.
I will say that I've had some chuckles at the expense of people in very expensive sports/luxury cars who are the first to get stuck in a moderate snowstorm


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## rideau (Dec 2, 2013)

6 to 8 feet in a few days may happen in Pulaski, but I sure wouldn't say it is common..72 to 96 inches is a good portion of a year's snow for that region.  That said, I have far too many times driven the stretch from Syracuse to the 1000 Islands in lousy weather.  Right around freezing, and the wind off the lake, that area is treacherous.  I see pickup trucks in the ditch all the time.  One day, the closer I got to Watertown, the further away I got from it timewise.  Over 4 hours Syracuse to Watertown.  But I got there, unlike many others on the road. 

Multiple hundreds car pile ups on 401 in Ontario between Gananoque and Brockville and other areas as well are not unheard of.  Again, thanks to lake effect snow, ice and wind. 

I grew up with 4 wheel and AWD and Quadratrack.  We were always told as children, you can't stop any faster. 

My present car is a suburban AWD, and it is amazing.  I come down a slope to a stop sign convinced I will go right through it, and the car stops.  Has several systems that assist the handling, and is immeasurably better than the 4 WD suburbans I've had.


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## mass_burner (Dec 2, 2013)

Ice is scary. I was ina parking lot on a Sunny day in a 94 landrover about 10 years ago. Went to leave and hit a 20 foot patch of ice at 5 mph. I was completely helpless, just had to wait and see where I ended up. Lucky nothing was around to run into.


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## Gunny (Dec 2, 2013)

altmartion said:


> I always beep and wave. lol


Same opinion on that situation.  The wave is the best method.


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## Beer Belly (Dec 3, 2013)

Some folks are nice and warm in their cars, and don't realize the temps outside just dropped.....they get too comfy. I usually can tell when it's getting toward Black Ice when I look at the tires of the car in front of me, and notice there is no water coming off his tires, yet the ground looks wet......ease off the throttle, and DO NOT touch that pedal to the left


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## fbelec (Dec 3, 2013)

you got it right beer belly don't touch the pedal on the left. everybody panics and hits the brake. worse thing you can do. ride it out then slow down or look for a edge of a snow bank to rub off some speed. not drive into but to rub off some speed then back out the way you went in and go home.


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## altmartion (Dec 4, 2013)

rideau said:


> 6 to 8 feet in a few days may happen in Pulaski, but I sure wouldn't say it is common..72 to 96 inches is a good portion of a year's snow for that region.  That said, I have far too many times driven the stretch from Syracuse to the 1000 Islands in lousy weather.  Right around freezing, and the wind off the lake, that area is treacherous.  I see pickup trucks in the ditch all the time.  One day, the closer I got to Watertown, the further away I got from it timewise.  Over 4 hours Syracuse to Watertown.  But I got there, unlike many others on the road.
> 
> Multiple hundreds car pile ups on 401 in Ontario between Gananoque and Brockville and other areas as well are not unheard of.  Again, thanks to lake effect snow, ice and wind.
> 
> ...


 i don't live in Pulaski, i lve in altmar. Pulaski doesn't get near the snow we get here in the snowbelt. my restaurant is in Pulaski and very very close to the lake. the storms seem to blow right over it. by the time it gets to my house it is usually nasty. my inlaws fishing lodge/ campground is 2 miles from me and they can get 6 inches more than i. weird. lol. the worst part is my wife won't even drive in the snow. geez!


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## mass_burner (Dec 4, 2013)

Also, there's no magic to "those people". I was born and raised in southern CA and moved to MA when I was 30. Never had an accident, never freak out when snow comes. Its just common sense and being careful.


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## altmartion (Dec 4, 2013)

mass_burner said:


> Also, there's no magic to "those people". I was born and raised in southern CA and moved to MA when I was 30. Never had an accident, never freak out when snow comes. Its just common sense and being careful.


 common sense and courtesy is most important. I don't care if you are driving on slicks, if you have common sense it would tell you not to drive.


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## Paulywalnut (Dec 4, 2013)

Steer into the skid


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## blades (Dec 5, 2013)

They banned the studded tires in WI years ago, so the tow industry is well supported.


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## billb3 (Dec 5, 2013)

More SUVs and minivans slide off the road here in Ma and NH than "jacked up" pick-ups.
I've driven down too many of those ditches with my "jacked-up" 4WD truck to rescue people from their flipped over minivans, my own experience has been pulling female drivers from minivans.

Ice shows up almost anywhere when it is raining here in NE at  temps as high as 40 degrees.

I've been driving up 495 to Maine in 5PM rush hour traffic to go skiing just past Lawrence when, while slowly passing a tractor trailer with plenty of  faster vehicles passing me, I've looked at the speedo registering 0MPH. For almost 3/4 mile. Brand new car, brand new tires. All the while hoping absolutely no one else on the road around me panicked and did something stupid.

I've had AWD and don't like it on ice, no control over tires engaging/disengaging frightens me.
Give me 4WD (which generally is disengaged at highway speeds and on non-snowy surfaces) <----- for the clueless.


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## tfdchief (Dec 5, 2013)

I have worked so many accidents on the highway and almost been killed by the idiots who couldn't seem to understand why there were accidents every mile


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## fbelec (Dec 5, 2013)

Paulywalnut said:


> Steer into the skid



alot of people screw that saying up. they think if your rear is sliding out and coming up on your left and the nose is facing right then they turn the wheel to the right and windup doing a 360.


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## tfdchief (Dec 5, 2013)

fbelec said:


> alot of people screw that saying up. they think if your rear is sliding out and coming up on your left and the nose is facing right then they turn the wheel to the right and windup doing a 360.


Yep, My Dad taught me that lesson on a go-cart when I was only 9.


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## fbelec (Dec 5, 2013)

at 9 that must have been fun.  there is a lot that can be said about stores being closed on sunday so that one could use the parking lot for a skid pan to learn how the car reacts thats how i taught myself.


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## jharkin (Dec 6, 2013)

fbelec said:


> alot of people screw that saying up. they think if your rear is sliding out and coming up on your left and the nose is facing right then they turn the wheel to the right and windup doing a 360.



Yea that old saying is not really one size fits all (front end skid vs. rear end spin) and especially doesn't always work in the age of FWD, AWD and RWD cars all available, not to mention traction control or not and limited slip or open diff.

Take a rear end spin for example. In a RWD you need to let off the gas and turn into the spin to stop the rear wheels spinning and get them gripping and get hte car moving in a straight line;_ then_ you steer back to your desired course.  OTOH with FWD you can actually countersteer the spin and get on the gas to use the front wheels to drag the car back on course.


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## Beer Belly (Dec 6, 2013)

Can't stand front wheel drive in the snow.....I won't drive the Wifes car at all, even if there is just a dusting.....I'll take my truck, and leave it in two wheel drive....just don't like the feel of the front end dancing around


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## flyingcow (Dec 6, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> what about ice truckers?  I was told semis were good on ice.



Yes, if it's as flat as a lake.

I avg 10,000 miles a month in a trailer truck. I drive between Portland Maine and Fort Fairfield  Maine. The ice is not always flat.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 6, 2013)

rideau said:


> 6 to 8 feet in a few days may happen in Pulaski, but I sure wouldn't say it is common..72 to 96 inches is a good portion of a year's snow for that region.  That said, I have far too many times driven the stretch from Syracuse to the 1000 Islands in lousy weather.  Right around freezing, and the wind off the lake, that area is treacherous.  I see pickup trucks in the ditch all the time.  One day, the closer I got to Watertown, the further away I got from it timewise.  Over 4 hours Syracuse to Watertown.  But I got there, unlike many others on the road.
> 
> Multiple hundreds car pile ups on 401 in Ontario between Gananoque and Brockville and other areas as well are not unheard of.  Again, thanks to lake effect snow, ice and wind.
> 
> ...


 I remember it taking three days to go from Watertown to Oswego one winter. Oswego had 110 inches in a three day storm.


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## fbelec (Dec 6, 2013)

ouch


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

Retired Guy said:


> I remember it taking three days to go from Watertown to Oswego one winter. Oswego had 110 inches in a three day storm.


they are saying Tuesday is supposed to be nasty. it always snows when i schedule a work 50 miles away. always. it never fails. lol. i remember 5 years ago we had a real bad one. my wife due date was the next day and they could not plow the road i lived on. so i freaked out and started shoveling the road by myself. i went through 4 shovels. i bought all the store had and that was the only store open. we now have a bobcat. lol. i really want a backhoe. i miss my old one bad. i have been looking just nothing great yet.


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## dmmoss51 (Dec 7, 2013)

The problem is not the going... it's the stopping.  AWD makes it easier to go just as hard to stop.

What I see people sruggle with the most - more than speed itself - is not giving enough time and distance to stop.

You can maintain a high speed on ice if the road is straight and no one is in front of you (object in motion stays in motion)

It's when you have to suddenly stop or turn when you have an issue because once again an object in motion stays in motion.

So leave your self plenty of stopping distance and slow down for curves etc plenty early and you will be fine.

The problem we see is when Dallas gets an ice storm... they don't have the practice or experience or knowledge to simply back off a little.

BTW most of Ice Road truckers is watching the near misses and trucks sliding off the road.


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## dmmoss51 (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> i don't live in Pulaski, i lve in altmar. Pulaski doesn't get near the snow we get here in the snowbelt. my restaurant is in Pulaski and very very close to the lake. the storms seem to blow right over it. by the time it gets to my house it is usually nasty. my inlaws fishing lodge/ campground is 2 miles from me and they can get 6 inches more than i. weird. lol. the worst part is my wife won't even drive in the snow. geez!


 

With lake effect you definetly get locally heavier and lighter because it creates bands of snow... if you're in the band you get snow if you're out of the band you don't get it.  I can count on double the snow at home than at work most days and it's only 6 miles apart.


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## altmartion (Dec 7, 2013)

i don't care for abs. i find it harder to control.


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## fbelec (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> they are saying Tuesday is supposed to be nasty. it always snows when i schedule a work 50 miles away. always. it never fails. lol. i remember 5 years ago we had a real bad one. my wife due date was the next day and they could not plow the road i lived on. so i freaked out and started shoveling the road by myself. i went through 4 shovels. i bought all the store had and that was the only store open. we now have a bobcat. lol. i really want a backhoe. i miss my old one bad. i have been looking just nothing great yet.



you my friend have a really strong back. was it all for nothing?


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## fbelec (Dec 7, 2013)

altmartion said:


> i don't care for abs. i find it harder to control.



i don't either. or electronic traction control on a two wheel drive.


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## altmartion (Dec 8, 2013)

fbelec said:


> you my friend have a really strong back. was it all for nothing?


yup, all for nothing. I was so worried it would be that day. I don't have a strong back at all, in fact I have a very bad back, been fighting it since 04. surgery made it worse. I do have ocd to help me push through it though. lol


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## fbelec (Dec 8, 2013)

that stinks. but i do understand. if something did happen and you didn't shovel the head would hurt way more than the back.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 9, 2013)

After rolling over in a dump truck on an icy road many years ago, i have developed a bullet proof solution for driving on ice and snow covered roads. I STAY THE HELL HOME IN BAD WEATHER. Works every time.


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## altmartion (Dec 9, 2013)

fbelec said:


> that stinks. but i do understand. if something did happen and you didn't shovel the head would hurt way more than the back.


my back was the least I was worried about. lol


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## altmartion (Dec 9, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> After rolling over in a dump truck on an icy road many years ago, i have developed a bullet proof solution for driving on ice and snow covered roads. I STAY THE HELL HOME IN BAD WEATHER. Works every time.


 yep, it goes back to that common sense thing I was talking about and you have it. lol


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## woodgeek (Dec 9, 2013)

OK.  A little slippery here yesterday with <3" of snow on warm ground.  I was out on the roads briefly....

I saw 1 and heard reports of several other **flipped cars**.  How bad are you judging the road conditions to flip a sedan on an open road??  Did we have magic road condition known to cause sedans to spontaneously flip over??  Anyone want to explain that to me.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 9, 2013)

After telling the wife we have to go home early from a shopping trip cuz the weather was scheduled to get nasty (not easy for her) she said while looking at the sky "well i dont think its going to do that"
I said "what..... you can tell looking at the sky",check your Iphone may be more reliable. We ended up driving home in the snow. Next time im staying home. Im sure others have this problem.


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## woodgeek (Dec 9, 2013)

Seasoned Oak said:


> Im sure others have this problem.



In my household it is me looking at the sky....


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## fbelec (Dec 9, 2013)

woodgeek said:


> OK.  A little slippery here yesterday with <3" of snow on warm ground.  I was out on the roads briefly....
> 
> I saw 1 and heard reports of several other **flipped cars**.  How bad are you judging the road conditions to flip a sedan on an open road??  Did we have magic road condition known to cause sedans to spontaneously flip over??  Anyone want to explain that to me.



i can describe it with one word. stupidity.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 10, 2013)

fbelec said:


> i can describe it with one word. stupidity.


Ill bet if you interview all the crash victims(the survivors) you will find a good % did not really have to be out on the road at that particular time.


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## rideau (Dec 10, 2013)

I had an emergency and unfortunately had to be on the road night before last.  Treacherous.  Really horrendous accidents around here.  At the junction of the Sprain and Bronx River 24 or so cars and 45 injuries, some requiring extrication.  Flipped and burned car on the Hutch just before it climbs North toward NR.  Many, many one and two car accidents noticed during a 45 minute drive.  I drive a lot in snow, and this night, which did not appear bad, was awful.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 10, 2013)

Here is a NWS forecast that would make you change your travel plans - we did.

_Later tonight through Wednesday expect snowfall rates to increase to at least 2-4 inches per hour at times...with local/brief higher rates possible. Our local thundersnow nomogram from local research by rsh suggests at least some potential for thundersnow as well within the most intense portion of the band. If the band is able to remain somewhat stationary over a similar area tonight and Wednesday...we may see 1-2 feet each 12 hour period on the Tug Hill...with somewhat lesser but still significant amounts closer to the lake and also east of the Tug Hill. There will be a downslope shadow in the Black River valley with somewhat lower amounts there...but amounts will likely increase again into the western foothills of the Adirondacks with another upslope boost. Travel will be extremely difficult...if not nearly impossible at times within the most intense portion of this band. This includes Interstate 81 from Parish to Adams._


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## dmmoss51 (Dec 10, 2013)

Sounds like a beautiful winter day in Northern Michigan, might even get the barbeque out and grill some steaks!


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## Lighting Up (Dec 10, 2013)

You have snow....we don't.


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## fbelec (Dec 10, 2013)

Retired Guy said:


> Here is a NWS forecast that would make you change your travel plans - we did.
> 
> _Later tonight through Wednesday expect snowfall rates to increase to at least 2-4 inches per hour at times...with local/brief higher rates possible. Our local thundersnow nomogram from local research by rsh suggests at least some potential for thundersnow as well within the most intense portion of the band. If the band is able to remain somewhat stationary over a similar area tonight and Wednesday...we may see 1-2 feet each 12 hour period on the Tug Hill...with somewhat lesser but still significant amounts closer to the lake and also east of the Tug Hill. There will be a downslope shadow in the Black River valley with somewhat lower amounts there...but amounts will likely increase again into the western foothills of the Adirondacks with another upslope boost. Travel will be extremely difficult...if not nearly impossible at times within the most intense portion of this band. This includes Interstate 81 from Parish to Adams._



good thing my wife hasn't seen that forcast for where we live, she would stay home, looking on the internet for a new home. i don't like snow anymore. that was good when i was a kid. now it's good for making money.


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## rideau (Dec 11, 2013)

Retired Guy said:


> Here is a NWS forecast that would make you change your travel plans - we did.
> 
> _Later tonight through Wednesday expect snowfall rates to increase to at least 2-4 inches per hour at times...with local/brief higher rates possible. Our local thundersnow nomogram from local research by rsh suggests at least some potential for thundersnow as well within the most intense portion of the band. If the band is able to remain somewhat stationary over a similar area tonight and Wednesday...we may see 1-2 feet each 12 hour period on the Tug Hill...with somewhat lesser but still significant amounts closer to the lake and also east of the Tug Hill. There will be a downslope shadow in the Black River valley with somewhat lower amounts there...but amounts will likely increase again into the western foothills of the Adirondacks with another upslope boost. Travel will be extremely difficult...if not nearly impossible at times within the most intense portion of this band. This includes Interstate 81 from Parish to Adams._



Wow!  Anyone who has driven much in this area KNOWS just how bad that forecast is.  A LOT less snow than that, with the driving crosswinds, make for very treacherous driving, lots of vehicles in the center ditch, between Syracuse and Watertown.  I had put my driving plans off til Thursday, but had no idea, from Accuweather, that the conditions were like that.  Thanks for posting.  Won't even be tempted.  Guess I'll check the NWS for Thursday....

Keep warm.


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## Retired Guy (Dec 11, 2013)

rideau said:


> Wow!  Anyone who has driven much in this area KNOWS just how bad that forecast is.  A LOT less snow than that, with the driving crosswinds, make for very treacherous driving, lots of vehicles in the center ditch, between Syracuse and Watertown.  I had put my driving plans off til Thursday, but had no idea, from Accuweather, that the conditions were like that.  Thanks for posting.  Won't even be tempted.  Guess I'll check the NWS for Thursday....
> 
> Keep warm.


We are planning on leaving here Friday - may take the northern route even though it's 100 miles longer.


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## stoveguy2esw (Dec 11, 2013)

ive actually driven in snow and ice quite a bit , variety of vehicles, best one i had for this believe it or not was an old pinto station wagon, dang thing would go anywhere in the snow.

was watching the weather channel the other night and they showed a pile up in wisconsin i couldnt believe how fast those fools were going, the people who were moving at a reasonable rate of speed were able to steer around the pileup, but the one who came flying up and sliding in just kept making the pileup bigger until the whole road was blocked. it was silly watching these people coming in to the screen some were moving slowly and were able to manuver, then here comes joe idiot at 60 MPH on ice trying to change lanes at speed


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## BrotherBart (Dec 11, 2013)

Wife had a Pinto Runabout and later a Pinto station wagon. You are right. They were my go to vehicles in snow and ice.


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## Delta-T (Dec 11, 2013)

I took my driving test in a snow storm...slid right through a stop sign. Policeman said not to worry about it and passed me. There's a few less populated streets about my mom's neighborhood that grow large snow embankments in the winter....great for learning to drive in the snow in....like pinball machine.


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## Seasoned Oak (Dec 11, 2013)

BrotherBart said:


> Wife had a Pinto Runabout and later a Pinto station wagon. You are right. They were my go to vehicles in snow and ice.


I had a rambler american station wagon that was also good in the snow and you could fold all the seats down so it was good for "other" things as well


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