# Vehicle tires produce more particulate matter than their tailpipes do



## semipro (Jun 6, 2022)

Car tyres produce vastly more particle pollution than exhausts, tests show
					

Toxic particles from tyre wear almost 2,000 times worse than from exhausts as weight of cars increases




					www.theguardian.com


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## bholler (Jun 6, 2022)

semipro said:


> Car tyres produce vastly more particle pollution than exhausts, tests show
> 
> 
> Toxic particles from tyre wear almost 2,000 times worse than from exhausts as weight of cars increases
> ...


I honestly find that hard to believe.  But I certainly could be wrong


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## semipro (Jun 6, 2022)

bholler said:


> I honestly find that hard to believe.


As do I, especially when heavy vehicle emissions are considered.  
More here: 








						Gaining traction, losing tread  Pollution from tire wear now 1,850 times worse than exhaust emissions  — Emissions Analytics
					

By some distance, the research Emissions Analytics published in early 2020 claiming that tire particulate wear emissions were  1,000 times worse than exhaust emissions  generated the most feedback of any subject we have tackled so far – feedback that was a mixture of surprise and scepticism




					www.emissionsanalytics.com


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## tlc1976 (Jun 6, 2022)

Driving aggressively reduces tire life, but what really kills tires fast is bad alignment. Not mentioned in the articles. As roads and bridges continue to deteriorate, many vehicles go out of alignment, sometimes from parts worn prematurely. And especially these days, many people can’t afford to fix it so they make it last as long as they can.

That being said, I think passenger vehicles are a drop in the bucket compared to 18 wheelers. Shredded big rig tires are a common sight on roads. Engineering those tires to last longer would be the biggest benefit I think.


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## Ashful (Jun 6, 2022)

I have no trouble believing that more mass in particulates are generate by tire wear, than coming out the tailpipe of nearly any vehicle.  No surprise in that, whatsoever.

Where I fall off their bandwagon is when the imply that the impact of the types of particulates are somehow comparable.  I think the jury is still out on that, but if you were to force me to make a choice of climbing into a vat of particulates from my exhaust pipe versus my tires, I'll be bathing in tire.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 6, 2022)

Perhaps adding silica to the tire compounds was not a wise choice.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 6, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I have no trouble believing that more mass in particulates are generate by tire wear, than coming out the tailpipe of nearly any vehicle.  No surprise in that, whatsoever.
> 
> Where I fall off their bandwagon is when the imply that the impact of the types of particulates are somehow comparable.  I think the jury is still out on that, but if you were to force me to make a choice of climbing into a vat of particulates from my exhaust pipe versus my tires, I'll be bathing in tire.


Bathing, I'll take the tires, breathing the particulate, it's a tossup. Volcanized rubber and silica dust cannot be good for lung function.


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## woodgeek (Jun 6, 2022)

Sigh.  This 'news' has gotten filtered through the internet a few times, and popped up in my feed as 'EVs wear tires 2x faster than regular cars, thus the pollution from EVs is 4000X worse than the tailpipe pollution of regular cars.'  Of course they did.

I looked up some studies.  No evidence that tire wear particles are particularly toxic.  They are large, so most of the mass falls out of the air quickly.  They merge with soil and wash into waterways.  In water, they are denser than water, so they sink.  The polymer component is mostly isoprene which DOES biodegrade (and photodegrade).  Carbon black and silica fillers are already in the environment in large amounts.

Toxicity concerns seem to revolve around minor components that are mildly toxic, like Zinc.  Yawn.

Ofc similar studies on diesel particles confirms they are VERY toxic, related to heart disease and Alzheimers.

Some press coverage is calling this 'microplastics' and equating it with other microplastics (as in the marine environment).  No one has shown significant tire particles in the surface marine environment, bc, gravity.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 6, 2022)

woodgeek said:


> Sigh.  This 'news' has gotten filtered through the internet a few times, and popped up in my feed as 'EVs wear tires 2x faster than regular cars, thus the pollution from EVs is 4000X worse than the tailpipe pollution of regular cars.'  Of course they did.
> 
> I looked up some studies.  No evidence that tire wear particles are particularly toxic.  They are large, so most of the mass falls out of the air quickly.  They merge with soil and wash into waterways.  In water, they are denser than water, so they sink.  The polymer component is mostly isoprene which DOES biodegrade (and photodegrade).  Carbon black and silica fillers are already in the environment in large amounts.
> 
> ...


The silica is potentially a problem and can lead to silicosis if you live or work near a freeway or really busy road. Especially one traveled by heavy vehicles. I'm sure silica dust paired with ICE emissions can't be  good for health.


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## woodgeek (Jun 6, 2022)

SpaceBus said:


> The silica is potentially a problem and can lead to silicosis if you live or work near a freeway or really busy road. Especially one traveled by heavy vehicles. I'm sure silica dust paired with ICE emissions can't be  good for health.



Amorphous silica (as in tires) does not cause silicosis.  It is listed as an eye irritant.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 6, 2022)

With fuel and tire costs the way they are, I find it shocking the way some people still drive, pedal on the floor (and some trucks "rolling coal")...fuel is only what, $5-6/gall, and its nothing to spend $600-1000 for a new set of shoes for ole Betsy! Doesn't make me wanna go flying around people flipping them off because they only going 5 over the speed limit!
I've wondered for a long time how much damage tire dust and the various things we use (in the Northern states) to deice the roads causes...


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## tlc1976 (Jun 6, 2022)

woodgeek said:


> Sigh.  This 'news' has gotten filtered through the internet a few times, and popped up in my feed as 'EVs wear tires 2x faster than regular cars, thus the pollution from EVs is 4000X worse than the tailpipe pollution of regular cars.'  Of course they did.
> 
> I looked up some studies.  No evidence that tire wear particles are particularly toxic.  They are large, so most of the mass falls out of the air quickly.  They merge with soil and wash into waterways.  In water, they are denser than water, so they sink.  The polymer component is mostly isoprene which DOES biodegrade (and photodegrade).  Carbon black and silica fillers are already in the environment in large amounts.
> 
> ...


Good point, as it’s not apples to apples. The biggest benefit of an EV is a short to moderate commute in congested traffic, like California. Where the ICE is running nonstop, while the EV is only using enough power to run the electronics and maybe the AC, while creeping along. And at low speeds, tire fragments are minimal.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 6, 2022)

woodgeek said:


> Amorphous silica (as in tires) does not cause silicosis.  It is listed as an eye irritant.


Well then, thanks for the correction.


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## begreen (Jun 6, 2022)

Ironically, an additive in tire compounds that makes them wear longer is toxic, to fish at least and perhaps to other marine life. This was the finding of a research project led by the Univ. of Washington.









						Tire-related chemical is largely responsible for adult coho salmon deaths in urban streams
					

A team led by researchers at UW Tacoma, UW and Washington State University Puyallup has discovered a chemical that kills coho salmon in urban streams before the fish can spawn.



					www.washington.edu


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## Ashful (Jun 6, 2022)

begreen said:


> Ironically, an additive in tire compounds that makes them wear longer is toxic, to fish at least and perhaps to other marine life. This was the finding of a research project led by the Univ. of Washington.


I can already see tomorrow's news feed, after that's been filtered through, a few times:  "We need tougher fish".


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## SpaceBus (Jun 7, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I can already see tomorrow's news feed, after that's been filtered through, a few times:  "We need tougher fish".


Tougher fish would be great. Most fish are very susceptible to poor water quality, especially freshwater fish which are constantly absorbing the water through their skin. Salmonid species in particular suffer from poor water quality the most, generally resulting in poor reproduction. There are only about 300-350k wild atlantic salmon left in the wild, compared to the untold millions that would congregate in one estuary prior to humans polluting and damming rivers.


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## EbS-P (Jun 7, 2022)

I think this was debunked a bit.  Some here or elsewhere did the math and at the given mass loss rate tire were predicted to last less than 8k miles.  It also speaks to the very low particulate emissions by new ICE vehicles.   Are they proposing steel wheels?  I’ve always wanted to be a locomotive 🚂 engineer


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## begreen (Jun 7, 2022)

Can't get to anti-gravity cars soon enough.


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## EbS-P (Jun 7, 2022)

The delorean is coming back I saw (as a BEV).


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## Ashful (Jun 7, 2022)

EbS-P said:


> The delorean is coming back I saw (as a BEV).


I wonder if the new model will be anywhere near as disappointing as it's predecessor.  There are very few products in history as simultaneously anticipated and disappointing, as the original Delrean.  If it's image hadn't been somewhat resurrected by a popular movie, very few outside automotive enthusiast circles would even remember that turd of a car.


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## semipro (Jun 7, 2022)

My tires do seem to wear out faster on my Leaf than on my ICE vehicles but that might well be due to how much more fun I have driving it.  

I guess I'm more concerned about what we don't know with respect to these types of emissions.  Tires are not just natural rubber as many might think.  In addition to relatively inert things like carbon black, they are composed of synthesized "rubber" compounds like polybutadiene that are notoriously recalcitrant to degradation in the environment.  I think I'd feel a lot better if tire particles broke down more readily in the environment, but then intermediate products might well end up being more problematic than the original material so... (but not so much a problem with natural rubber).

Also, a material's physical properties rather than its chemical toxicity may be more of a problem in the environment.  Suspended plastics that mimic food in aquatic systems come to mind.   Sand, though inert, applied to roads for winter traction can have detrimental effects on benthic environments as bottom dwellers are basically displaced or suffocated.  I'll also add the example of asbestos.  Although chemically inert in our lungs, it still does a heck of a good job of causing cancer there. 

I think sometimes we humans too easily let hubris get in the way of recognizing that we don't have all the answers when complex systems are involved.

Interesting related read here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01143-3
Also here where the aerial mobility of tire particles, among other things, is studied: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17201-9


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## EbS-P (Jun 7, 2022)

semipro said:


> My tires do seem to wear out faster on my Leaf than on my ICE vehicles but that might well be due to how much more fun I have driving it.
> 
> I guess I'm more concerned about what we don't know with respect to these types of emissions.  Tires are not just natural rubber as many might think.  In addition to relatively inert things like carbon black, they are composed of synthesized "rubber" compounds like polybutadiene that are notoriously recalcitrant to degradation in the environment.  I think I'd feel a lot better if tire particles broke down more readily in the environment, but then intermediate products might well end up being more problematic than the original material so... (but not so much a problem with natural rubber).
> 
> ...


Well with generative breaking we can at least reduce the break wear products by choosing EVs.   But some times those lights just turn yellow way to fast.


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## begreen (Jun 9, 2022)

So far our Volt's tires are on target for normal wear. At this rate we should see at least 40k miles out of them. Our brakes at 25k miles are like new, especially the rears. We always drive it in L, so lots of regenerative braking. This works out nicely in our hilly area.


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## woodgeek (Jun 9, 2022)

begreen said:


> So far our Volt's tires are on target for normal wear. At this rate we should see at least 40k miles out of them. Our brakes at 25k miles are like new, especially the rears. We always drive it in L, so lots of regenerative braking. This works out nicely in our hilly area.


FYI, my understanding is that the amount of regen braking in L and D on the Volt (and the Bolt) are identical.  The brake pedal is 'blended'.  On other brands (like Tesla) the brake pedal is just calipers, and you need to use 1 pedal to get regen (or so I have heard, haven't driven one).


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## Ashful (Jun 10, 2022)

woodgeek said:


> FYI, my understanding is that the amount of regen braking in L and D on the Volt (and the Bolt) are identical.  The brake pedal is 'blended'.  On other brands (like Tesla) the brake pedal is just calipers, and you need to use 1 pedal to get regen (or so I have heard, haven't driven one).


I've driven a few Teslas, but never owned one.  But my understanding of their behavior is the same as yours, and it certainly feels this way, when driving.  When you take your foot off the accelerator, regen braking almost immediately engages, no need to move your foot to the brake pedal for regenerative braking to be felt or indicated.  It is very noticeable if you're on a hill, a feeling similar to driving a manual transmission ICE car in a relatively low gear, or a modern auto trans in sport or track settings.


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## begreen (Jun 10, 2022)

woodgeek said:


> FYI, my understanding is that the amount of regen braking in L and D on the Volt (and the Bolt) are identical.  The brake pedal is 'blended'.  On other brands (like Tesla) the brake pedal is just calipers, and you need to use 1 pedal to get regen (or so I have heard, haven't driven one).


Yes, that's right. Driving one pedal in the Volt becomes more natural in hilly terrain. It's a more enjoyable experience, you don't go racing downhill unless you want to. I miss it immediately when I drive our van. On trips, I put it in D with the ACC on.


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## Ashful (Jun 10, 2022)

begreen said:


> Yes, that's right. Driving one pedal in the Volt becomes more natural in hilly terrain. It's a more enjoyable experience, you don't go racing downhill unless you want to. I miss it immediately when I drive our van. On trips, I put it in D with the ACC on.


Sounds like an excuse to put a performance valve body shift kit in the minivan!


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## EbS-P (Jun 10, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Sounds like an excuse to put a performance valve body shift kit in the minivan!


Probably Nitrous as well.  Instant torque!!   New Teslas you don’t even have to use break to come to a stop. Old ones like mine you still need the break pedal below 5 mph.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 10, 2022)

Is it like driving an HST tractor (minus having a reverse pedal)?


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## EbS-P (Jun 10, 2022)

SpaceBus said:


> Is it like driving an HST tractor (minus having a reverse pedal)?


I never found those very intuitive. It’s more like a manual in the high rev range as soon as you lift you are engine breaking.  

Tesla took two days to feel normal.   The idea of coasting foot off the gas doesn’t happen. I do find speed humps more of a challenge for the first 15 minutes after a week not driving the van.   You lift off the gas and you don’t slow down.   

Driving with the new graph up so you can see at what point you start regen breaking helps identify the spot where you are coasting.  

But with 3 different driving modes that remap throttle response and max power you can always mess yourself up. But the regen amount doesn’t change.  And I think it starts to engage at about the same pedal location it’s just you don’t have much of a coasting position in ludicrous mode.


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## semipro (Jun 10, 2022)

The regen on our Leaf in "B" mode is pretty impressive though not quite one-foot driving.  
We have some pretty serious hills around here and I've made trips to higher-elevation destinations where I didn't think we'd have the battery capacity to make it home again only to be very surprised when we got home with a lot of range to spare.


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## begreen (Jun 10, 2022)

I just checked our van. At 4521# it considerably outweighs the Volt. Both have the same brand tires on them, Michelin Energy AS. The van has almost 32k on it and the tires are wearing well. I expect it will get at least 40-45k miles on the tires. I have the same expectation for the Volt.


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## Ashful (Jun 11, 2022)

begreen said:


> I just checked our van. At 4521# it considerably outweighs the Volt. Both have the same brand tires on them, Michelin Energy AS. The van has almost 32k on it and the tires are wearing well. I expect it will get at least 40-45k miles on the tires. I have the same expectation for the Volt.


Wow.  I'm thrilled if I get beyond 10k miles out of any pair of tires on any vehicle.  My car and truck are both at 20k, and both nearly due for their third set of tires.


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## begreen (Jun 11, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Wow.  I'm thrilled if I get beyond 10k miles out of any pair of tires on any vehicle.  My car and truck are both at 20k, and both nearly due for their third set of tires.


That seems very low. I don't recall having a vehicle including trucks and RVs that got less than 25 or 30K on a set of radial tires. Our 2013 Volt got new shoes at 37K and there was still safe tread on them.


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## EbS-P (Jun 11, 2022)

Tread life should be talked about as percent of warranties treadlife.  Driving habits affect mileage.  And as I’m finding with the Tesla.  An inspec alignment for Tesla isn’t that great.   20k a set on a Tesla is good.  Some report 8k on the first set.  

A lot of independent rear suspensions these  days really have excessive camber under moderate to heavy loads.  I really want to see how the new  Suburbans tire life  with a trailer.   I guess I never read any complaints about the Expedition.  But my minivan with all of us around town and a decent load but no trailer for 3000-5000 miles wears the rear Insides almost as fast as the front outsides.


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## Ashful (Jun 11, 2022)

begreen said:


> That seems very low. I don't recall having a vehicle including trucks and RVs that got less than 25 or 30K on a set of radial tires. Our 2013 Volt got new shoes at 37K and there was still safe tread on them.


I've mentioned I like driving cars with comically large displacements, a likely cause of the low tire life reference in my head.  The worst was a 7 liter Mustang that got a new pair of Mickey Thompson ET's every 3k - 5k miles.  The P-Zero Nero's on the Charger last about 9k - 11k per full set of four, rotating every 3k miles.

I'll check mileage and percent wear on the KO2's on my truck tomorrow, as we have their purchase date recorded somewhere in the bowels of this forum, and I should be able to back out the mileage from that.  That's a more "normal" vehicle, so it will be interesting to see where it lands.


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> You will get way more. Try aiming for 100k miles to bald.


I really doubt we will see tires that last that long.  I think the compound would have to be so hard performance would really suffer.  We had a set of Goodyears that had a really high wear rating and mileage warranty.  But after about 6 months we were worn through the soft outer layer of rubber.  The car was almost undrivable.  I changed them after only 20k miles or so because I felt they were unsafe.


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## EbS-P (Jun 12, 2022)

bholler said:


> I really doubt we will see tires that last that long.  I think the compound would have to be so hard performance would really suffer.  We had a set of Goodyears that had a really high wear rating and mileage warranty.  But after about 6 months we were worn through the soft outer layer of rubber.  The car was almost undrivable.  I changed them after only 20k miles or so because I felt they were unsafe.


Tires are the most overlooked safety feature of a car.


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

EbS-P said:


> Tires are the most overlooked safety feature of a car.


Yes and quite possibly the most important one.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 12, 2022)




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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> Cost is the most important concern. If it feels undrivable, it's dangerous to drive as usual.
> 
> Rather, drive like a granny.
> 
> ...


No cost absolutely is not the most important concern.  My most important concern is not killing my kids or anyone else because I can't control my vehicle properly.


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> There are regional differences. Central PA is mostly ice, snow and hilly road.
> In Texas, rain is the biggest enemy to maneuverability. Bald tires could understeer and slid.
> The balder your tires are, the slower you must drive in rain to allow water to properly flow out of tire path.


That an incredibly irresponsible attitude to have.   You need to start thinking about the safety of the people you are trying to help and the safety of those around them.

You do realize driving slow is about as much of a traffic hazard as driving fast don't you?


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## begreen (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> You will get way more. Try aiming for 100k miles to bald.


I never aim for bald. Usually, I update the tires at about 1/8" remaining tread. Traction and wet weather handling really falls off when the tread depth is at the warning bars (1/16").


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> Nice! please don't scrap your tire, donate them on craigslist.
> Poor people thank you for leaving 1/8 remaining tread, which they can run for another 5K miles.
> Sometimes, a tire is a tire. A tire with 1/8" tread is better than a new tire that break your bank so much that you default on payments and  the car get repo-ed.
> Yes, such is America.
> ...



No they cannot a tire with 1/8" tread is worn out and will hydroplane badly ect.    You also won't find a tire shop willing to mount and balance them.   If someone cannot afford to keep their car in safe working order they should not be driving it.  And in many states like ours they would not be allowed to drive them


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> Driving like a granny, slow, under normal road condition, on routes they are familiar with, is probably safe with a worn out tire.
> No, they cannot afford tire shops. Neighbors help neighbors for good and for God.
> What can relieve them from having to drive? Affordable housing within walking distance from work. For how many people does it exist?


No it is not safe period.  That is why state inspections require a minimum tread depth.   I don't know what they can do to avoid driving.  But putting others at risk because they can't afford to properly maintain their vehicle is not an option.


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> Community self reliance is really important. In the inner city neighborhood I once lived in, we were never short of furniture, because someone collect from sidewalks of yuppie neighborhoods, then sanitize, clean and repair in his garage. He sells on craigslist and gives out what don't sell. It's awkward but works. Also saves the city money for landfill space.
> 
> but this is actually illegal for collecting trash without license,  fortunately no one raises an eyebrow.
> 
> If we were allowed to build for need, we would have solved our own housing problem, yet the city council refuse upzoning lots nearby employment center or even building granny flats, the results? 8 people of 3 generations crammed in a single family home, one of whom is a carpenter, whose building permit applications were rejected over and over.


Ok absolutely none of that justifies running on worn out tires.


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## bholler (Jun 12, 2022)

monteville said:


> In reality, "there is no better way" justify many absurd practices. You got to do the best within your means. "If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid."


It might work for a while.  It might work forever.  Or you might blow out a tire or just loose control tomorrow killing someone.

That just isn't ok under any circumstances


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## SpaceBus (Jun 12, 2022)

Ashful said:


> I've mentioned I like driving cars with comically large displacements, a likely cause of the low tire life reference in my head.  The worst was a 7 liter Mustang that got a new pair of Mickey Thompson ET's every 3k - 5k miles.  The P-Zero Nero's on the Charger last about 9k - 11k per full set of four, rotating every 3k miles.
> 
> I'll check mileage and percent wear on the KO2's on my truck tomorrow, as we have their purchase date recorded somewhere in the bowels of this forum, and I should be able to back out the mileage from that.  That's a more "normal" vehicle, so it will be interesting to see where it lands.


You can do so much better than those Pirellis and not spend any more money. I assume you don't drive this car in the snow.


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## Ashful (Jun 12, 2022)

SpaceBus said:


> You can do so much better than those Pirellis and not spend any more money. I assume you don't drive this car in the snow.


Snow??  Heck no!  I've only even ever been caught in the rain twice in six years with it, both times because our forecasts were wrong.

Unless something has changed in the last few years, that's the only tire that meets the factory spec of that car (106Y).  Of course, I'm not racing it, I could get away with Nittos... but the price difference isn't so much that I really care to bother with them.


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## Ashful (Jun 12, 2022)

begreen said:


> That seems very low. I don't recall having a vehicle including trucks and RVs that got less than 25 or 30K on a set of radial tires. Our 2013 Volt got new shoes at 37K and there was still safe tread on them.


Got some measurements and dates/mileages collected on the truck tires, BFG A/T KO2 LT275/60R20, and it appears I'm on track to get 29.5k miles out of them.  I guess it's just the sportier tires for which I'm seeing very low miles.


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## EbS-P (Jun 12, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Snow??  Heck no!  I've only even ever been caught in the rain twice in six years with it, both times because our forecasts were wrong.
> 
> Unless something has changed in the last few years, that's the only tire that meets the factory spec of that car (106Y).  Of course, I'm not racing it, I could get away with Nittos... but the price difference isn't so much that I really care to bother with them.


Not sure what size(s) you need but the Teslas now have many more options than they did several years ago for XL load range tires.   Not saying it’s great but you have choices.


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## SpaceBus (Jun 13, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Snow??  Heck no!  I've only even ever been caught in the rain twice in six years with it, both times because our forecasts were wrong.
> 
> Unless something has changed in the last few years, that's the only tire that meets the factory spec of that car (106Y).  Of course, I'm not racing it, I could get away with Nittos... but the price difference isn't so much that I really care to bother with them.


Lol, I have forgotten more about performance tires than most people know about their own spouse. Nitto makes some good tires. The 106Y spec is just so they can get Pirelli to make an OEM tire for it. You think I'm going to suggest some grandma all-season? I used to race, competitively, on the best tires. What's your tire size? I can pick out a few options that will make those stupid Pirellis feel like Low Rolling Resistance tires. 


I'm also assuming you are on 20" wheels, which further limits your tire choices. 

If you go down to 19", there are a lot more available tires, like these: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire... Alternate Design&partnum=03WR9GFRS&tab=Sizes 

I know you will say "but those aren't rated 106Y" to which I say, people take these tires on tracks a lot faster and harder than you will ever go. 

I would never buy a Pirelli tire unless it was a spec tire for a series. 

Even these Yokohamas are better than the P Zero's you have now. 



			https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+Apex+V601&partnum=035YR0V601XL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Dodge&autoYear=2020&autoModel=Charger%20SRT%20Hellcat%20Widebody&autoModClar=


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## sloeffle (Jun 13, 2022)

I live on a gravel road, and I regularly get 50 - 60K from a set of Michelin's. My rule of thumb is, if they are getting close to the wear bar before winter I will change them out. If it's spring time, then I'll ride on them until I hit or get close to the wear bar and Costco has Michelin's on sale. 

Granny only drives on Michelin's ( that's probably another topic for another day )


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## Ashful (Jun 13, 2022)

SpaceBus said:


> What's your tire size? I can pick out a few options that will make those stupid Pirellis feel like Low Rolling Resistance tires.


Cool.  I appreciate that.  I'll PM you with the details, so as to not derail the thread (any more than I already did).  If it's interesting to others, I guess we could always re-post to another thread.


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## EbS-P (Jun 13, 2022)

Ashful said:


> Cool.  I appreciate that.  I'll PM you with the details, so as to not derail the thread (any more than I already did).  If it's interesting to others, I guess we could always re-post to another thread.


I’m always up for learning something new.  So one vote for a new thread.


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## semipro (Jun 13, 2022)

EbS-P said:


> I’m always up for learning something new.  So one vote for a new thread.


I'd support that too if not for any other reason than to hear about what kind of racing @SpaceBus did.


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## sloeffle (Jun 13, 2022)

semipro said:


> I'd support that too if not for any other reason than to hear about what kind of racing @SpaceBus did.


Same


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## Ashful (Jun 14, 2022)

Okay guys.  Quoted the above into a new thread:






						Racing tires
					

From a (much Greener) thread about tire particulates...  Lol, I have forgotten more about performance tires than most people know about their own spouse. Nitto makes some good tires. The 106Y spec is just so they can get Pirelli to make an OEM tire for it. You think I'm going to suggest some...




					www.hearth.com


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## begreen (Jun 14, 2022)

Closing thread. New thread on the worst tires for particulates is more appropriate for the Inglenook. There's nothing green about it.


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