# 2019/20 VC Owners thread



## Dobish (Sep 30, 2019)

Another year of owning a Vermont castings stove? Welcome to the thread about everything vc.

Last season's thread is  here


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## Diabel (Oct 1, 2019)

Almost had a fire in the VC last night. The house was around 68. I believe I will have one tomorrow, the tens are to drop significantly. At least I can say, “no fires in Sept this year”.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 1, 2019)

I'm going to do some gaskets on my stove this weekend and then I will be ready


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## frased (Oct 2, 2019)

Does my encore 2550 need to be “seasoned” the first burn every year? Someone I spoke to was under that impression. Or is that only when it’s brand spankn new. 

Cleaning out my chimney this week. Can’t wait burn season is almost here!


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## Diabel (Oct 2, 2019)

frased said:


> Does my encore 2550 need to be “seasoned” the first burn every year? Someone I spoke to was under that impression. Or is that only when it’s brand spankn new.
> 
> Cleaning out my chimney this week. Can’t wait burn season is almost here!


Nope 
Just clean the pipes, inspect the cat, vacuum in behind the fireback and you good to go


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## frased (Oct 2, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Nope
> Just clean the pipes, inspect the cat, vacuum in behind the fireback and you good to go



Thanks! Looking forward to starting the season.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 2, 2019)

First break-in fire started. No thermometer yet so just playing it safe. So far so good - strong draft as expected, even tho its 60 degrees out, just couldn’t wait! Immediate dirty windows... that didnt take long.


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## Diabel (Oct 2, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> First break-in fire started. No thermometer yet so just playing it safe. So far so good - strong draft as expected, even tho its 60 degrees out, just couldn’t wait! Immediate dirty windows... that didnt take long.


Is this a cat stove?
Interesting, VC removed the window ribs or whatever you call it.

If your glass got dirty right at start, i suspect not so seasoned wood.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 2, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Is this a cat stove?
> Interesting, VC removed the window ribs or whatever you call it.
> 
> If your glass got dirty right at start, i suspect not so seasoned wood.


Yes - cat stove. 

Interestingly the wood is 2 year seasoned. I dont have a meter but sounds very very dry. Has been covered (completely dry) the whole time. I did use fat wood fire starters... dont know if that could be the culprit?


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## Diabel (Oct 2, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Yes - cat stove.
> 
> Interestingly the wood is 2 year seasoned. I dont have a meter but sounds very very dry. Has been covered (completely dry) the whole time. I did use fat wood fire starters... dont know if that could be the culprit?


Go shopping. You need a flue thermometer, cat thermometer and moisture meter! With that particular stove you cannot run it blind, you will quickly damage the fragile and expensive inner parts.
Very nice set up btw


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 2, 2019)

I agree with the above... you need all that. You may think the wood is dry but maybe not as much as it should be. The MMis like 20 bucks on Amazon.. and its well worth it.. look into the Auber at100 for your cat prob.. i had somthing else and it sucked.. get the at100 and youll know right away when you cat lights off instead of 15 minutes with the bimetal prob the stove comes with.. good luck... and may the force be with you..always..


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## alivegas99 (Oct 2, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Go shopping. You need a flue thermometer, cat thermometer and moisture meter! With that particular stove you cannot run it blind, you will quickly damage the fragile and expensive inner parts.
> Very nice set up btw


Absolutely. Any recommendations? Only picked out a stove top thermo so far.


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 2, 2019)

Still waiting for my first break in fire on my new Intrepid.  Was 92 today so not happening anytime soon.  Maybe first week November the way it's going.


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## Diabel (Oct 2, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Still waiting for my first break in fire on my new Intrepid.  Was 92 today so not happening anytime soon.  Maybe first week November the way it's going.


I am sending you some brisk air from Canada! And believe you me......it is coming!


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## Diabel (Oct 2, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Absolutely. Any recommendations? Only picked out a stove top thermo so far.


The most important is the Auber 100 cat meter. That will allow you to see what goes on in the cat chamber.


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## jetsam (Oct 2, 2019)

Diabel said:


> I am sending you some brisk air from Canada! And believe you me......it is coming!



It was 80 here today, more inland. We set some daily heat records on the east coast.

Needless to say, I will be very unhappy with you if you send me a bunch of cold-ass Canadian air!


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 2, 2019)

Benefit is I'm still getting tomatoes though.


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## begreen (Oct 2, 2019)

Looks like cool nighttime temps will be in New England by Friday night.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 3, 2019)

Just picked up an Auber AT100. Of course, I have no idea what temp probe (k thermocouple?) to buy or where to put it (existing analog temp sensor?).  Is existing thermo supposed to be behind the shieding on the back of the Encore? Cant see anything obvious as is. 

Thanks for the continued handholding guys. My wife is happy I’m asking ‘the pro’s’!


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## Diabel (Oct 3, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Just picked up an Auber AT100. Of course, I have no idea what temp probe (k thermocouple?) to buy or where to put it (existing analog temp sensor?).  Is existing thermo supposed to be behind the shieding on the back of the Encore? Cant see anything obvious as is.
> 
> Thanks for the continued handholding guys. My wife is happy I’m asking ‘the pro’s’!


Your stove should have come with an analog cat probe that needs to or placed in a little (capped) hole at the back of the stove. Is there a back heat shield on the stove?


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## alivegas99 (Oct 3, 2019)

I believe there is a heat shield on the back. I’ll check tonight to see if the temp probe was installed. Owners manual should help too. Is that temp probe usable with the at100?


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## Dobish (Oct 3, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> I believe there is a heat shield on the back. I’ll check tonight to see if the temp probe was installed. Owners manual should help too. Is that temp probe usable with the at100?


The probe that came with it is not compatible with the at100, but the WRNK-191 probe will work perfectly with the at100.

I have a link in my signature to a flow chart i created to what i have found works with my encore.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks Dobish - I have the 191 thermocouple now included in my order. Believe it or not, the flowchart has already been printed and inside the drawer of my coffee table. I'll post back with my experiences during the install.


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## Dobish (Oct 3, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Thanks Dobish - I have the 191 thermocouple now included in my order. Believe it or not, the flowchart has already been printed and inside the drawer of my coffee table. I'll post back with my experiences during the install.


Mine sits on the coffee table... [emoji851]


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## alivegas99 (Oct 3, 2019)

New location for it...


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## frased (Oct 3, 2019)

Friday night n Saturday night definitely look cold enough! But then back to normal. Hmmmmm... that first fire can’t wait.


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## swestall (Oct 3, 2019)

begreen said:


> Looks like cool nighttime temps will be in New England by Friday night.


41 degrees last night, it's going to bounce around for a while. With new (2020) T6 I'd actually like for it to get cold enough for a couple test/burn in fires. But, at 41 it was still 72 in the house with no heat,so we'll have to wait.


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## begreen (Oct 3, 2019)

swestall said:


> 41 degrees last night, it's going to bounce around for a while. With new (2020) T6 I'd actually like for it to get cold enough for a couple test/burn in fires. But, at 41 it was still 72 in the house with no heat,so we'll have to wait.


Yeah, I have had a couple of small fires, but won't be burning regularly until the daytime temps drop into the 40s. Sunny days warm up the house pretty quickly and the heat pump is cleaner and more efficient.


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## frased (Oct 4, 2019)

begreen said:


> Looks like cool nighttime temps will be in New England by Friday night.


Who's burning tonight?


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## Dobish (Oct 4, 2019)

frased said:


> Who's burning tonight?


Im working great American beer fest, so I'll be burning calories running kegs!


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## Flame On (Oct 5, 2019)

I bought a new refractory box for my Winterwarm Small. When I removed the old box I saw that there is a secondary air probe (thermostat) sticking into the stove from the back. In order to get my new box in I would have to pierce a hole in it. I am reluctant to do that, as I don't even know if the thermostat still works. So, a few questions...
1.) Is there any way to test the thermostat to see if it still works? I can see the small 'door' that the thermostat would close if it was working.
2.) If I cut this thing off, does it even matter?
3.) If I were to cut it off, should I close off the small door and just adjust the air on my own with the main air control?
Before you suggest pulling the unit and replacing the thermostat from the back, I'm reluctant to disconnect the chimney to pull the unit out. I've looked into getting a tech over here to do that and it gets into costing more than this thing is worth...
Thanks for any help you guys can offer.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 5, 2019)

Im doing gaskets on the stove.. i got this from midway hearth. Is there a better set than this or is this a good set. Im not sure. Its the mh 3419. Im burning the vc 2 in 1 2040..


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## alivegas99 (Oct 6, 2019)

First night I stuffed the stove before bed and it kept the whole house warm all night, 8.5 hours later temp was over 200 degrees and had enough coals to start up a morning fire. Never had anything close with the old stove. So far, impressed with the Encore. The only negative I’ve seen thus far is aesthetic, the lack of ‘fire show’ when the cat is engaged. Though, the more i see the hot ember glow and whisps of fire, the more I appreciate it over the exuberant roar of the old Jøtul #8.


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## Diabel (Oct 6, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> First night I stuffed the stove before bed and it kept the whole house warm all night, 8.5 hours later temp was over 200 degrees and had enough coals to start up a morning fire. Never had anything close with the old stove. So far, impressed with the Encore. The only negative I’ve seen thus far is aesthetic, the lack of ‘fire show’ when the cat is engaged. Though, the more i see the hot ember glow and whisps of fire, the more I appreciate it over the exuberant roar of the old Jøtul #8.


8.5h is a good burn. You should average between 7 and 10 hours depending on the wood type, weather and how you filled the firebox.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 6, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> First night I stuffed the stove before bed and it kept the whole house warm all night, 8.5 hours later temp was over 200 degrees and had enough coals to start up a morning fire. Never had anything close with the old stove. So far, impressed with the Encore. The only negative I’ve seen thus far is aesthetic, the lack of ‘fire show’ when the cat is engaged. Though, the more i see the hot ember glow and whisps of fire, the more I appreciate it over the exuberant roar of the old Jøtul #8.



What model Encore do you have


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## SculptureOfSound (Oct 6, 2019)

Montpelier owner checking in. Had quite a few fires already this year....2nd year burning and I can dial my fire in much better and more quickly now. Learned to be a bit more patient with the air controls...last year I kept turning down a little too quickly.

Just thought I'd say hi. Hope to see more Montpelier or Merrimack owners come visit this thread


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## alivegas99 (Oct 6, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> What model Encore do you have


2040 - just got it last week!


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## alivegas99 (Oct 6, 2019)

Diabel said:


> 8.5h is a good burn. You should average between 7 and 10 hours depending on the wood type, weather and how you filled the firebox.


Good to know, Diabel.  I think the big splits of oak are helping my cause.


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## Diabel (Oct 6, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Good to know, Diabel.  I think the big splits of oak are helping my cause.


For sure! Save those splits for Jan Feb!!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 6, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> 2040 - just got it last week!


Great stove..i routinelyget 12 hours at night.. if you pack it right with a wood like oak, you get better than 10 hours


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## Woody Stover (Oct 7, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> I did use fat wood fire starters... dont know if that could be the culprit?


Like other Pine, that stuff billows black smoke..


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## Dobish (Oct 7, 2019)

Apparently i forgot to empty the stove this spring. Opened it up to prep for the snow tomorrow and found 2 half burnt logs about 10" of ash. I checked the chimney and it was as clean. I remember cleaning it, but must not have actually pulled the ash out. 

Ive got a load of pine and elm ready for tomorrow night.


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 9, 2019)

A note to all VC owners,  all parts from  VC are stocked and shipped from their headquarters in PA now.  No more third party distributors.  Found this out a few weeks ago or so when I ordered a Encore part and it didn't come in.   Dealer found out from the third party that VC cut they're ties with them and will sell and distribute them themselves.  So if your waiting for a part and it's taking a while, this may be the reason.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 9, 2019)

Auber is up and running! Looks like I’m cruising at about 1,100 on the Cat and 600 in the fire box.  I know it can vary with airflow, split size, outside air temp, etc.... but what are the temps you folks are typically trying to get out of yours?


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## Diabel (Oct 9, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Auber is up and running! Looks like I’m cruising at about 1,100 on the Cat and 600 in the fire box.  I know it can vary with airflow, split size, outside air temp, etc.... but what are the temps you folks are typically trying to get out of yours?


That sounds perfect


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## Dobish (Oct 10, 2019)

Diabel said:


> That sounds perfect


Yep, i agree.  
80 yesterday afternoon. 32 at 8pm. High of 34 today... 

Got a fire loaded up!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 10, 2019)

I did  some gaskets over the weekend and did a test fire Saturday night.. small nothi g big, with the windows open.  Wif left the windows open by accident... or did she... i lit the stove as it was 64 in the house  when  i got home.. did a real fire.. felt good


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 20, 2019)

New Intrepid Flex Burn update:  Breakin fires completed.  Second real fires and it It's performing well.  Yet to install an OAK but that will be in about three weeks or so.  I believe that the 6-8 hour burn can be realized as advertised.  One thing for sure you must have the three inch coal bed as said in the manual before you engage the secondaries.  Short of that three inches you'll struggle with it at least to some degree.  Oh and no puff backing, at least not yet.  Out side temp around 50.  22' masonry chimney with 6" stainless steel flex liner.   So far so good.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 21, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> New Intrepid Flex Burn update:  Breakin fires completed.  Second real fires and it It's performing well.  Yet to install an OAK but that will be in about three weeks or so.  I believe that the 6-8 hour burn can be realized as advertised.  One thing for sure you must have the three inch coal bed as said in the manual before you engage the secondaries.  Short of that three inches you'll struggle with it at least to some degree.  Oh and no puff backing, at least not yet.  Out side temp around 50.  22' masonry chimney with 6" stainless steel flex liner.   So far so good.



Glad to hear the new stove is doing well. Did you sell the encore or trade it in on the new stove..


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 21, 2019)

Did not sell the Encore yet.  Had somebody at my former employer (I retired the beginning of this month) said was intrested a few weeks ago but think that fell through so will probably put it back on Craig's List for $850 as has been suggested here as a good selling price.  Wifey  wants it out of the garage and be done with it.


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## rjrdomer (Oct 21, 2019)

Newbie poster and stove user here. I've been observing this form for a while now, learning a lot.  I wanted to see if anyone could provide some thoughts or advice.  My backstory, I recently built a vacation home/second residence in the northern Catskills in New York. I wanted to have a wood stove for heat while I'm there, however, there is propane baseboard as a backup. This is our first winter in the home. We use the propane baseboard set low to prevent the house from freezing, and the wood stove as primary heat while there. We had a few nights dip into the 40s late August/early September so we seasoned a brand new Vermont Castings Defiant with some small quick fires per the manual, just to get the chill out of the air.

This past weekend temps didn't get out of the 50s and were into the 30s at night, so we decided to go full force with the stove.  Here is what we did/learned.  It is a catalytic stove, which I've been reading mixed opinions on. But it's what we were sold, so let's roll with it.  We are burning all hardwood. It is not as seasoned as I'd like, I would admit.  

To get it going, we put a couple of pieces of crumbled newspaper and two or three strips of fatwood with one smallish split log.  We leave the damper open and door cracked for a bit to let as much oxygen fuel the fire. Once the larger log ignites, we close the front doors.  Then we add some logs to the top, stacking it full for an overnight burn.  We let the temperature get to about 550-600 at the stove top (per the magnetic thermometer), and the flames are roaring. We then close the damper.  Upon closing the damper, the flames basically die down to a glow or nothing much at all.  This is when my better half starts yelling at me that it's not working right. And I say, to the contrary, this is how catalytic stoves work.  We burned all night and when I woke up, the stovetop was at about 200 with some hot coals left. I opened the damper, threw another couple of logs on the fire, and let it continue to warm up until it burned out.  Then we didn't need the heat much during the day.  We reignited the fire again for our second night.

So I guess my questions are: am I doing this right?  Are we not supposed to see crazy flames when the damper is shut?  Additionally, is it ok to just let the fire slow burn overnight with the damper closed although the temp eventually gets to below 250?  My wife sees the "creosote" meter on the thermometer and freaks that we are going to burn the house down.

The little catalytic gauge on the back of the stove isn't moving at all...even when the stove rips at 600 degrees for some time.  We also have a blower installed on it that doesn't seem to work...I called our installer about it..waiting to hear back.

So how am I doing?  Ideally I'd like more seasoned wood to burn.....we have some blacking on the glass already.  I plan on cleaning the chimney in the spring.  And this is only for part-time use while we are there which is every couple of weekends. Am I missing anything with operating this stove?  I have used other wood stoves when I was younger, however they were older models and had dampers that partially opened/closed. The Defiant has open/close damper setting and a separate temperature control. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance.


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## Dobish (Oct 21, 2019)

It sounds like you are doing things mostly correct. The cat meter on the back of the stove will only rise when the damper is closed, and there is enough heat in the firebox to light off the cat. If you don't have a good coal bed, the cat will not light off and you will stall the cat. Normally it lights off around 500 and with dry seasoned wood will get to around 1400. Your wood is probably well below seasoned, and the firebox isn't quite hot enough. 

You should see cat temps around 1100 and flue temps around 400 with little or no flames when you are cruising. If you do not need as much heat, just turn down the air after letting the cat light off. It is easier to maintain a bed of coals and not have to do a cold start every night.


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## Dobish (Oct 21, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Did not sell the Encore yet. Had somebody at my former employer (I retired the beginning of this month) said was intrested a few weeks ago but think that fell through so will probably put it back on Craig's List for $850 as has been suggested here as a good selling price. Wifey wants it out of the garage and be done with it.


Congrats on the retirement


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## alivegas99 (Oct 21, 2019)

I'm a newbie to the cat stove world as well, but my understanding has been that running the stove on low heat overnight is within design spec. The fact that the stove top thermo is at 300 degrees and says "creosote" does not mean you are actually creating large scale creosote throughout the night. When using the cat, once ignited, it tends to stay ignited for a long time (sustaining the combustion environment via its own heat generation) and the cat chamber will stay at >500 degrees and burn very very cleanly (should not see dark chimney smoke). 

Crazy flames will not be a part of your life, aside from getting a new fire start up to temp. I get nice lazy flames when the damper is shut and typically the coals burn a deep orangish-red. 

The window blackening will happen more with unseasoned wood. I find that when temps inside the stove get to ~600 it starts to clean itself. I have cleaned the glass once after the first couple burns (those low temp burns with fatwood are a recipe for dirty glass) but haven't since then, Most of the time my glass is 95% clean and 5% dirty.  I do have dry wood tho...

I was pushed to get a digital cat thermometer (Auber AT100 and K probe) from the gentlemen on this site and it has been great for learning my new Encore. It's probably $70 bucks all-in, so not cheap, but beats the pants off the probe ON THE BACK of the stove.

Btw, congrats on the new stove! Overall my experience has been almost too smooth with the new VC. I keep on waiting for an issue . I will say, once you get comfortable with it, the overnight burns are fantastic with these cat stoves. I keep waking up after 8+ hours with a 300+ degree stove, a heap of hot coals, and a warm house.

I'm sure someone will correct me if anything I stated here is wrong.


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> 2040 - just got it last week!


When you get a moment, can you add your stove make/model to your signature line? You can do this by clicking on your avatar name in the upper right, then click on Signature.


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 21, 2019)

A visit to the VC dealer today found that VC no longer supplies an OAK for the Intrepid.  And I think this may have extended to all models but not sure.  Dealer said that VC did not make any of they're OAK's anyways and they were outsourced.  Not rocket science to make one save for the need to have a 3 1/2" reducer to 3" on the intake pipe.  The new September 2019 owners manual they dropped the part # for the OAK but still mention the need to have one in certain circumstances.


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## Trey1979 (Oct 21, 2019)

begreen said:


> When you get a moment, can you add your stove make/model to your signature line? You can do this by clicking on your avatar name in the upper right, then click on Signature.


I believe I finally figured out my signature but not sure


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## begreen (Oct 21, 2019)

Trey1979 said:


> I believe I finally figured out my signature but not sure


Yep, that looks fine.


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## rjrdomer (Oct 22, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> I'm a newbie to the cat stove world as well, but my understanding has been that running the stove on low heat overnight is within design spec. The fact that the stove top thermo is at 300 degrees and says "creosote" does not mean you are actually creating large scale creosote throughout the night. When using the cat, once ignited, it tends to stay ignited for a long time (sustaining the combustion environment via its own heat generation) and the cat chamber will stay at >500 degrees and burn very very cleanly (should not see dark chimney smoke).
> 
> Crazy flames will not be a part of your life, aside from getting a new fire start up to temp. I get nice lazy flames when the damper is shut and typically the coals burn a deep orangish-red.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply. I have similar lazy glowing flames, however the glass is somewhat blackened in spots so hard to see.  Since this was the first weekend we fully used the stove for heat, it was a little different for us than running those quick fires to get the chill out of the air and season the box.  We loaded the box up on Friday night after the fire was roaring and once the new logs caught, we shut the damper. I woke up 8 hours later to a 300 degree stovetop and glowing coals, so it was very easy to throw a couple of logs on for the cold morning. And yes, I did notice more smoke from the chimney when we had the damper open, and once it was shut, the smoke was minimal and not dark in color at all. So I guess it's working!

Could you please explain how this Auber AT100 works? Do you attach it to the cat directly somehow?


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 22, 2019)

Alivegas99, you've got it figured out with the Encore well it seems.  I had one for two years and couldn't keep it from back puffing on low temps.  Turned out I was trying to run it too low to keep from overheating the room it was in which reduced the draft to the point in a 21' 6" flue that the draft could not pull the off gassing fast enough.  To keep it from off gassing had to crank it up and get a larger coal base which over heated the room.  I think with the Encore a 8" flue is preferable over the 6" no matter the length which would have helped.  Lessen learned too big a stove.  Got a smaller stove (above thread) and life is better with a VC.  Make no mistake though no matter the VC stove it's all about establishing a proper coal bed.  This may take an hour to do.  But enjoy the Encore, it sounds like it's working well.


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## alivegas99 (Oct 22, 2019)

Thanks Kevin - I've definitely got more house than stove, and a >30ft interior chimney, so I guess in those aspects the wind is at my back (or going up my flue pipe?). 

RJ - The K probe (temperature probe) goes exactly where the current probe is on the back of the stove. That is the entire installation! The AT100 is just the display / user interface. It allows you to see, digitally, what temperature the K-probe is reading as well as set alarms for maximum cat temps. 

The most useful thing about the probe is how easy it is to tell that your stove has gone into cat mode. Just in the few weeks I've had it, my hunch for exactly when I can throw the damper and engage the cat has gotten pretty darn good. If you throw too early it tells you, because the cat probe will sit at something like 350 degrees. If you engage it at the right time it will shoot upward well over 500 degrees in a few minutes.

My cat has yet to get into the 1,400's, I've heard some here say it gets dicey at over 1,700 degrees so my alarm is set at 1,650. I tested the alarm at low temperatures and it is quite a loud and annoying alarm! Definitely would wake me up.


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## begreen (Oct 22, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> My cat has yet to get into the 1,400's, I've heard some here say it gets dicey at over 1,700 degrees so my alarm is set at 1,650. I tested the alarm at low temperatures and it is quite a loud and annoying alarm! Definitely would wake me up.


The catalyst can get damaged at 1600º.


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## Kevin Weis (Oct 24, 2019)

Dobish said:


> Congrats on the retirement


 
Dovish, thanks!  Best part is not fighting the urban traffic to and from Baltimore every day and playing with, sorry ("learning") the new stove.


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## Diabel (Oct 29, 2019)

Good morning everyone. Hopefully we are all almost ready for another burn season.
Question for the experts:
I am about to clean the chimney, replace the griddle gasket, put in a new cat. I am debating if I should replace the bypass gasket (no easy task). It has been four years since the rebuilt and the stove has been used almost 24/7 Nov to Apr (less several winter vacations).


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## stove39 (Nov 1, 2019)

Hello, I am new to this forum. We just installed our first wood burning stove, a biscuit-color Defiant. Today is the third time we are using it.


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## Diabel (Nov 1, 2019)

stove39 said:


> Hello, I am new to this forum. We just installed our first wood burning stove, a biscuit-color Defiant. Today is the third time we are using it.


Beautiful looking stove. Welcome to the forum. Lots of excellent information you will find here.


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## ajayabb (Nov 1, 2019)

stove39 said:


> Hello, I am new to this forum. We just installed our first wood burning stove, a biscuit-color Defiant. Today is the third time we are using it.



Such a pretty stove 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 2, 2019)

stove39 said:


> Hello, I am new to this forum. We just installed our first wood burning stove, a biscuit-color Defiant. Today is the third time we are using it.


Congratulations on the new stove. Youll get years of beautiful fires in that stove. The defiant is a big stove. Were on the east coast are you..


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## stove39 (Nov 2, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Beautiful looking stove. Welcome to the forum. Lots of excellent information you will find here.


Thank you! The stove is performing great. I spent a lot of time on this forum before we made the decision to go with a VC stove.   Lots of great information, thank you.


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## stove39 (Nov 2, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Congratulations on the new stove. Youll get years of beautiful fires in that stove. The defiant is a big stove. Were on the east coast are you..


Thank you, I am in northern VA, west of Washington, D.C.


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## stove39 (Nov 2, 2019)

ajayabb said:


> Such a pretty stove
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 2, 2019)

stove39 said:


> Thank you, I am in northern VA, west of Washington, D.C.


What kind of wood you have and are you going to be burning 24/7??  I started as a weekend burner and quickly went to this as my primary heat...


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 2, 2019)

Intrepid Flex-Burn update:  installed a 3" OAK per manual to see if any immediate difference.  No immediate difference.  But it did get to 50 this afternoon from 27 this morning and no wind.  The difference in incoming outside air tempature 49 or so compared to the 66 room temp did not affect the flu temps or the secondary burn temps.  So one questioned answered.  Other questions to be answered later if this will make a less drafty house when winter really gets here and on a windy day will it affect the draft in the stove?  So far in the non-cat mode this stove rates a solid 'B' maybe a 'B+' for me.  Will get with the cat mode later when it gets colder to rate that.


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## SpaceBus (Nov 2, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Intrepid Flex-Burn update:  installed a 3" OAK per manual to see if any immediate difference.  No immediate difference.  But it did get to 50 this afternoon from 27 this morning and no wind.  The difference in incoming outside air tempature 49 or so compared to the 66 room temp did not affect the flu temps or the secondary burn temps.  So one questioned answered.  Other questions to be answered later if this will make a less drafty house when winter really gets here and on a windy day will it affect the draft in the stove?  So far in the non-cat mode this stove rates a solid 'B' maybe a 'B+' for me.  Will get with the cat mode later when it gets colder to rate that.



I hope it does well for you. We looked really hard at it but passed for the little Morso. Is yours enameled? That was a big draw for us.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 2, 2019)

No, just the basic Classic Black.  Wifey didn't want to spend extra $600 or so for the enameled ones.  Plus easier repair of paint than enamel.  If there were no price difference the then enamel it would be though.


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## stove39 (Nov 3, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> What kind of wood you have and are you going to be burning 24/7??  I started as a weekend burner and quickly went to this as my primary heat...


Mostly oak and maple.


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## Durantefarm (Nov 5, 2019)

with the VC insert do you all start a draft by putting newspaper near the flue to get a draft ? or i was watching a video about top down method would this work to get draft started ? im just wondering because sometimes when its cold out and i start a draft the way i stated i will get smoke into the house . the chimney is cleaned on a regular basis so its not clogged . thank you in advance .


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 5, 2019)

I use to Loosely bald newspapers I do not hold them by the stove pipe I just Loosely ball them up and like them keep the doors cracked open do not open them all the way cracking them open ball out air in and the heat up into the flue pipe creating draft


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 7, 2019)

Converted my open fireplace to a Montpellier insert last summer. I haven't used it yet but it looks like this weekend will be cold enough. 
Do I need some kind of small grate for this thing or just start a fire on its floor?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 7, 2019)

Kenneth Kline said:


> Converted my open fireplace to a Montpellier insert last summer. I haven't used it yet but it looks like this weekend will be cold enough.
> Do I need some kind of small grate for this thing or just start a fire on its floor?


Did you read the manual.. are there break in fires required  prior to burning..


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 7, 2019)

Yeah, back in July.Probably worth a re-read. I do remember something about not elevating the fire.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 7, 2019)

Kenneth Kline said:


> Yeah, back in July.Probably worth a re-read. I do remember something about not elevating the fire.


Your not burning in a fireplace any more.. basically you heve a wood stove in your fireplace.. there is no grate for it but I'd  double check your manual.. where you located that your just beginning to burn.. and hows the mc of the wood you have..


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 7, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Your not burning in a fireplace any more.. basically you heve a wood stove in your fireplace.. there is no grate for it but I'd  double check your manual.. where you located that your just beginning to burn.. and hows the mc of the wood you have..



Maryland. First daytime highs below 50 this coming weekend. All of my wood for this year is split for at least three years and very dry.

I also burn a VC intrepid 2 on another chimney. Its bottom is a slotted grate over an ash pan. A little different than the solid flat bottom of the insert.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 7, 2019)

Kenneth Kline said:


> Maryland. First daytime highs below 50 this coming weekend. All of my wood for this year is split for at least three years and very dry.
> 
> I also burn a VC intrepid 2 on another chimney. Its bottom is a slotted grate over an ash pan. A little different than the solid flat bottom of the insert.



Farther sputh like Maryland has been warmer.. cool air is on its way.. lots of stoves/inserts have soild bottom mostly due to the lack of ash pan.. let us know how you make out running the new insert..


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 7, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Farther sputh like Maryland has been warmer.. cool air is on its way.. lots of stoves/inserts have soild bottom mostly due to the lack of ash pan.. let us know how you make out running the new insert..


Will do , looking forward to trying it out after staring at it all summer.


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## Reckless (Nov 8, 2019)

Hi everyone!! Burn baby burn. Stay warm and stay safe


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## Reckless (Nov 9, 2019)

Not going to say I’m excited to be burning 24/7 already but what can you do. I had to pull the SS liner myself and get it installed in a more permanent manner. Gave the liner a thorough sweep and stuffed some roxul around the top and sealed the top plate to the flue. I almost permanently sealed the griddle but I was done at that point and I can do that at any time. If I keep it up I probably won’t be able to get in the stove to load it anymore..... [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Hope everyone is doing well and keep tinkering with these finicky beauties. 



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## Michagander (Nov 10, 2019)

Have not had time to be on this site in a while , I have a 2009 or 2010 Encore 2 in 1 does anyone know if mine has a place for the cat probe ? If so is there any pictures  ? First I have heard of them on Encore.  It would be nice not to have to go out side with a flashlight in the winter to see if the cat is lit .


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## Reckless (Nov 10, 2019)

Michagander said:


> Have not had time to be on this site in a while , I have a 2009 or 2010 Encore 2 in 1 does anyone know if mine has a place for the cat probe ? If so is there any pictures ? First I have heard of them on Encore. It would be nice not to have to go out side with a flashlight in the winter to see if the cat is lit .



With the rear heart shield removed it should be center on the rear casting just below where the cat sits on the opposite side. You should see a small plug that can be removed and a probe inserted. 


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 10, 2019)

Should get a hole in the heat shield as well.  And a small hole for the bracket to hold the probe in place.


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## Reckless (Nov 10, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Should get a hole in the heat shield as well. And a small hole for the bracket to hold the probe in place.



I had to tap my hole for the bracket, they must have missed that at the factory, luckily I have a tap and die set.


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 12, 2019)

New Montpellier worked great first time out this past weekend. Definitely beat feeding the wood-hungry fireplace. The burn level was easy to control although I did need to leave the door slightly ajar for about 10 minutes to get it burning nicely. Nice heat output once the fan kicked in. Very happy with it.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 12, 2019)

Another Intrepid Flexburn update and questions:  So with the cat installed now that it's colder, the cat is running about 1050 or so  with a griddle temp of around 300.  And with the air at around 1/3 or so.  With this setting there are some flames.  Does this sound like a good crusing temps as for as most VC stoves are concerned?  I'm still not sure about the secondary air flap adjustment that's around 1/4"" open when cat is engaged.  May play around with that one tick either way to see what difference it makes running the stove.  But for right now will leave that alone.  Hope to get more information on what the design opening (factory setting) is supposed to be.  No, I'm not trusting they have the setting right necessarily.  Too many ways during construction they could have got it set wrong maybe one ball (has a ball chain with stop checks) off.  If anyone here is running the Intrepid II and knows the factory secondary flap setting please let me know what that is for comparison, thanks.


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## Diabel (Nov 12, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Another Intrepid Flexburn update and questions:  So with the cat installed now that it's colder, the cat is running about 1050 or so  with a griddle temp of around 300.  And with the air at around 1/3 or so.  With this setting there are some flames.  Does this sound like a good crusing temps as for as most VC stoves are concerned?  I'm still not sure about the secondary air flap adjustment that's around 1/4"" open when cat is engaged.  May play around with that one tick either way to see what difference it makes running the stove.  But for right now will leave that alone.  Hope to get more information on what the design opening (factory setting) is supposed to be.  No, I'm not trusting they have the setting right necessarily.  Too many ways during construction they could have got it set wrong maybe one ball (has a ball chain with stop checks) off.  If anyone here is running the Intrepid II and knows the factory secondary flap setting please let me know what that is for comparison, thanks.


With griddle 300 and cat 1050 is this stove throwing any heat at all?


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## alivegas99 (Nov 12, 2019)

Kevin, that sounds like you are really choking down that stove. Is it warm enough for you? If it is very mild temps where you are and you dont need the extra heat that will surely give you great burn times. Opening it up more will create higher temps for the stove but not necessarily much higher temps for the cat. I‘m often running my Encore between 600 and 700 degrees with the cat temp coming in anywhere from 900 to 1400. It kicks a bunch of heat. I’ll sometimes wake up to 300 degree stove top temps after an overnight burn...


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 12, 2019)

The stove is for an 11 X 13 room with an open doorway to the main house.  This room has 3.25 exposed sides.  Walls are insulated save for 1/2" foam board between the clapboard and by vinyl siding.  This addition (two story) was built around 1910.  So at a griddle temp of around 400 it should through out enough heat to keep it comfortable even at 0 outside .  The house has oil forced hot air for the main heating even the stove room has an air duct for this but with 3+ exposed sides still a cold room even with the main house comfortable, hence the stove.  Enough heat gets out to the main house to cut the oil bill by two thirds easy still.   Right now with stove top around 350 and cat around 10000, room is about 80.  Main house temp is 68 at the thermostat.  This with an outside temp of 38 and wind out of northwest at 18 mph.  I believe the secondary flap is adjusted about an 1/8"" too open and affects the sensitivity of primary air setting making for less air entering the stove and more fresh  air entering the combusting chamber directly and through the cat and out.  Next stove cool down I'm going to close up the secondary slightly to see how this affects stove temp and draft through the stove.  Thanks for the responses.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 12, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> cat around 10000


I would wear shades when looking directly at it, to avoid eye damage.  


> I believe the secondary flap is adjusted about an 1/8"" too open


Totally different stove, but my 2460 has a separate cat air supply..didn't seem to do much any time I messed with it.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 12, 2019)

Yep, 10000 would be bad.  Yea, stove is behaving a little eradicaly.  Cat at 730 now but griddle around or a little over 400.  There is a OAK on the stove so that may account for some of that being breezy today.  The secondary has no thermostat.  It has the one air setting for whatever it's been set to.  When you switch from damper ope to close you can hear the rush in he flames through the cat for a while till the draft settles down some.  Was concerning at first but it's all confined to the cat and never got much above 1300.


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## ajayabb (Nov 12, 2019)

Fired up the Encore after getting home from work. Going to get a blast of cold tonight 


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## Reckless (Nov 12, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Yep, 10000 would be bad. Yea, stove is behaving a little eradicaly. Cat at 730 now but griddle around or a little over 400. There is a OAK on the stove so that may account for some of that being breezy today. The secondary has no thermostat. It has the one air setting for whatever it's been set to. When you switch from damper ope to close you can hear the rush in he flames through the cat for a while till the draft settles down some. Was concerning at first but it's all confined to the cat and never got much above 1300.



1050 I would have to imagine you are getting some smoke out the chimney. You should be able to get it in the 1150-1200 range and keep the griddle temps down and let the cat do all the work. To me it sounds like you are turning it down a little too fast. I also have my secondary air completely blocked after playing around with it and getting terrible outcomes (I have crazy draft). 


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 12, 2019)

At 1050 on the cat there is no smoke comming out the chimney.  Smoke starts at and below 900.   The Intrepid takes a steel cat now.  The steel cat they advertise as activating around 450.  My draft I would say is average, maybe a little below average.  By design I don't know the purpose of the secondary air intake save to make sure there is some draft maintained even if the primary is closed all the way?  However the primary flap has a hole in the middle of it the size of a nickel so I thought that served that purpose?  I'm not inclined to close off the secondary completely but maybe leave an 1/8 or 3/16" gap.  We'll see how that goes maybe in a few weeks.  Appreciate your response and thoughts.


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## Diabel (Nov 12, 2019)

Reckless@ 
Glad you are still around.


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## Reckless (Nov 12, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> At 1050 on the cat there is no smoke comming out the chimney. Smoke starts at and below 900. The Intrepid takes a steel cat now. The steel cat they advertise as activating around 450. My draft I would say is average, maybe a little below average. By design I don't know the purpose of the secondary air intake save to make sure there is some draft maintained even if the primary is closed all the way? However the primary flap has a hole in the middle of it the size of a nickel so I thought that served that purpose? I'm not inclined to close off the secondary completely but maybe leave an 1/8 or 3/16" gap. We'll see how that goes maybe in a few weeks. Appreciate your response and thoughts.



Gotcha steel vs ceramic is a totally different beast and your numbers sound to be correct. Heard very conflicting statements about steel so I hope it works out for you. Keep messing with until you get a combo that works for you and then forget everything you learned cause these stoves have a wicked curve ball. 


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 13, 2019)

Reckless, I hear ya.  Did you find by cutting off the secondary, the primary control was more responsive when changing settings?  I'm still somewhat clueless on the secondary flow routing in this stove other than somehow it gets to the combuster and out through the cat but seems does not mix with the air going into the firebox or does it?  Anyways as has been said each install is different so there is a provision to adjust primary and secondary air flow fairly easily to accomidate this.  I'm thinking about half the season to get it dialed in.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 13, 2019)

ajayabb said:


> Fired up the Encore after getting home from work. Going to get a blast of cold tonight
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



i did my first overnight burns this week.. stove has been running a little more and more each week..ill have it running most of the week


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2019)

We have been off and on. The other day i didn't get it going and woke up to a house at 51°. Turns out someone turned the furnace off, and it got super cold in the house. Last night i loaded up some big maple chunks


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## Reckless (Nov 13, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Reckless, I hear ya. Did you find by cutting off the secondary, the primary control was more responsive when changing settings? I'm still somewhat clueless on the secondary flow routing in this stove other than somehow it gets to the combuster and out through the cat but seems does not mix with the air going into the firebox or does it? Anyways as has been said each install is different so there is a provision to adjust primary and secondary air flow fairly easily to accomidate this. I'm thinking about half the season to get it dialed in.



Secondary blocked gave me total control. I was finding that even when closed it was letting enough air in to allow the cat to start to climb into the danger zone. In my encore the secondary leads straight to the lower fireback and up the groves between the lower fireback and refractory to the cat opening just behind the throat hood thus mixing with the smoke before getting combusted, It gives the cat fresh O2 for a cleaner burn. 


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## Reckless (Nov 13, 2019)

A side note I also have the “EPA” air holes by the legs sealed as well, but again I have really good draft with a 25’ interior chimney. You could always try this first before messing with the secondary. Simple magnets or a small piece stove gasket will do the trick. 


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## rwh63 (Nov 13, 2019)

My 1995 VC CDW Seneca 2170.  Original owner.  Runs from October to March.  Burn around two cords.


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## Durantefarm (Nov 13, 2019)

Kenneth Kline said:


> Converted my open fireplace to a Montpellier insert last summer. I haven't used it yet but it looks like this weekend will be cold enough.
> Do I need some kind of small grate for this thing or just start a fire on its floor?


no grate needed! i have been putting 3 decent sized logs on bottom going left to right balled up paper and some cardboard the built up with smaller sized wood and small stuff on top . get good draft going with newspaper stuffed loosely by flue. when u here the sound of the draft going up light paper and i crack door till wood catches . vent all the way open and once the blower kicks on i adjust vent to what is comfortable .


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## Kenneth Kline (Nov 14, 2019)

Durantefarm said:


> no grate needed! i have been putting 3 decent sized logs on bottom going left to right balled up paper and some cardboard the built up with smaller sized wood and small stuff on top . get good draft going with newspaper stuffed loosely by flue. when u here the sound of the draft going up light paper and i crack door till wood catches . vent all the way open and once the blower kicks on i adjust vent to what is comfortable .



Yeah it wasn't difficult. A couple of small splits of dry pine and cedar piled on a half of a Super Cedar cake and it got going pretty quick. No different than my Intrepid 2 really. 

Now I just need to find an ash shovel that can fit in there for cleaning. The one I used for the fireplace is pretty useless for the insert.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 16, 2019)

Reckless said:


> A side note I also have the “EPA” air holes by the legs sealed as well, but again I have really good draft with a 25’ interior chimney. You could always try this first before messing with the secondary. Simple magnets or a small piece stove gasket will do the trick.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Reckless,  the Intrepid from what I can see has no other air holes other than the secondary flap opening.   I've cut down the secondary airflow which seems to have helped significantly.  On a negative note the steel cat that was supplied as the cat option seems to plug with ash frequently.  So much so that every day one should inspect and clean the cat for maximum airflow.  So my question to anyone else that has the flexburn with the ceramic cat,  how is it performing?   Thinking about pulling the trigger on a ceramic to see the difference.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Reckless,  the Intrepid from what I can see has no other air holes other than the secondary flap opening.   I've cut down the secondary airflow which seems to have helped significantly.  On a negative note the steel cat that was supplied as the cat option seems to plug with ash frequently.  So much so that every day one should inspect and clean the cat for maximum airflow.  So my question to anyone else that has the flexburn with the ceramic cat,  how is it performing?   Thinking about pulling the trigger on a ceramic to see the difference.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Another note, the stove does push some ash through the combustor.  So maybe too much draft going through when closing the bypass damper is helping to cause this?


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## Reckless (Nov 16, 2019)

I have crazy draft and do not get ash into the combustion area to that extent. I never empty my ash pan and only take some ash out once it reaches the doors. I clean behind the lower fireback every other year or so. My cat is getting a little crumbly so I did not even inspect it this year (probably the last year for it). I stack my wood towards the front of the stove and leave the throat wide open. Might be an issue with the steel cat but never heard anyone mention it 

@jharkin you ever have clogging issues with the steel cat? Let’s see if the deserter even visits here anymore [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 16, 2019)

I consider my draft average or slightly below average.  I will say this, when I have a healthy bed of coals and close the damper to activate the combustor, there is a rushing sound through it until the draft settles down. I think this is when some ash migrates into the combuster.  I usually set the primary about half way when I close the bypass damper.  I might need to cut it down some more when  I close it?  The steel cat has way smaller passage ways and I've heard of significant amounts of ash closing off cells.  But I've heard also that with the steels thin edges it cuts the ash into smaller pieces so it can pass through easier.


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## begreen (Nov 16, 2019)

rwh63 said:


> My 1995 VC CDW Seneca 2170.  Original owner.  Runs from October to March.  Burn around two cords.


That's a rare bird.  Can you tell us more about it?


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## rwh63 (Nov 17, 2019)

happy to answer any questions.


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## rjrdomer (Nov 18, 2019)

I posted a few weeks ago.  I have been using my VC Defiant at my vacation home as my sole heat source when there. It has worked great. Just a few things I was wondering if anyone can opine on. My glass doors...they are black. And not just with some ashes like Ash Wednesday Ashes.  But crusted on creosote.  How do I get this off?  I tried the water+ash trick, I tried soapy water and elbow grease.  Can I take a razor blade to it and scrape?  Has anyone used any of the Rutland Creosote remover that you burn that's supposed to loosen any potential creosote in the chimney? I'm burning all hardwood, however it's only been seasoned about 6-12 months. I typically get the fire started with 1 or 2 pieces of fatwood and newspaper with a smaller log or two and then just add hardwood split logs after that. 

Secondly, there is a visible gap between my chimney pipe and flue collar and you can hear a whistling noise when the stove is running with the damper open.  Does this gap need to be closed?  I read somewhere that creosote could form down low if there are gaps in the flue collar.  I've attached a video. Hopefully it went through. Thanks in advance.


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## Dobish (Nov 18, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> I posted a few weeks ago. I have been using my VC Defiant at my vacation home as my sole heat source when there. It has worked great. Just a few things I was wondering if anyone can opine on. My glass doors...they are black. And not just with some ashes like Ash Wednesday Ashes. But crusted on creosote. How do I get this off? I tried the water+ash trick, I tried soapy water and elbow grease. Can I take a razor blade to it and scrape? Has anyone used any of the Rutland Creosote remover that you burn that's supposed to loosen any potential creosote in the chimney? I'm burning all hardwood, however it's only been seasoned about 6-12 months. I typically get the fire started with 1 or 2 pieces of fatwood and newspaper with a smaller log or two and then just add hardwood split logs after that.
> 
> Secondly, there is a visible gap between my chimney pipe and flue collar and you can hear a whistling noise when the stove is running with the damper open. Does this gap need to be closed? I read somewhere that creosote could form down low if there are gaps in the flue collar. I've attached a video. Hopefully it went through. Thanks in advance.


Your wood is too wet. Burn some pallet scraps, 2x4, etc. And get a hot fire. If you aren't burning dry enough wood you are just creating a terrible mess. A really hot fire will get rid of the stuff on your doors. Keep an eye on your cat temp and make sure it is lighting off. You are probably better off burning hot and not engaging your cat until the wood dries out.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 18, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> crusted on creosote.  How do I get this off?  I tried the water+ash trick, I tried soapy water and elbow grease.  Can I take a razor blade to it and scrape?...I'm burning all hardwood, however it's only been seasoned about 6-12 months.
> Secondly, there is a visible gap between my chimney pipe and flue collar and you can hear a whistling noise when the stove is running with the damper open.  Does this gap need to be closed?  I read somewhere that creosote could form down low if there are gaps in the flue collar.


Soft Maple is about the only wood that will dry in that short a time, but there may be others. Stack single-row splits, top-covered only, where the wind can easily blow through.
That's a big gap. You might get some flat gasket at the farm store or stove dealer, and plug most of that. Yes, you want to keep flue gasses as hot as possible. Better be checking your flue every few weeks and see if you need to brush, when your wood is that wet. The last thing you want is a chimney fire!


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## Woody Stover (Nov 18, 2019)

Dobish said:


> You are probably better off burning hot and not engaging your cat until the wood dries out.


Yep, open the door and see how much moisture is bubbling out the ends of your splits, and burn the load in good before closing the bypass.
As far as cleaning glass, I've never been a fan of scraping glass with a metal blade. I use a scouring pad that's safe for use on ceramic stove tops, then misting with vinegar water to loosen up the creo. But I think some stove glass has some type of coating...not sure if that is very durable. I wouldn't worry too much about that, though..I don't really know what that coating is supposed to do?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 18, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> I posted a few weeks ago.  I have been using my VC Defiant at my vacation home as my sole heat source when there. It has worked great. Just a few things I was wondering if anyone can opine on. My glass doors...they are black. And not just with some ashes like Ash Wednesday Ashes.  But crusted on creosote.  How do I get this off?  I tried the water+ash trick, I tried soapy water and elbow grease.  Can I take a razor blade to it and scrape?  Has anyone used any of the Rutland Creosote remover that you burn that's supposed to loosen any potential creosote in the chimney? I'm burning all hardwood, however it's only been seasoned about 6-12 months. I typically get the fire started with 1 or 2 pieces of fatwood and newspaper with a smaller log or two and then just add hardwood split logs after that.
> 
> Secondly, there is a visible gap between my chimney pipe and flue collar and you can hear a whistling noise when the stove is running with the damper open.  Does this gap need to be closed?  I read somewhere that creosote could form down low if there are gaps in the flue collar.  I've attached a video. Hopefully it went through. Thanks in advance.



as a stove owner i believe that mostly any stove that the air is cut down .. the glass will be dirty.. that being said. when my glass is tinted in the morning a hot fire will get the majority if not all the glass clean. sometimes i use the rutland glass cleaner to get it off if my fire wasnt hot enough or i  didn't burn it hot the previous morning..


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## Diabel (Nov 18, 2019)

As Dobish@ said, a hot fire will take care of the black stuff on your glass. Your wood to me seems not seasoned enough. You need wood that is at least seasoned for two years, the longer seasoned the better.


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## begreen (Nov 18, 2019)

rwh63 said:


> happy to answer any questions.


What's the firebox size? Is it a downdraft stove with a refractory assembly for secondary combustion or a more conventional design?


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## rjrdomer (Nov 19, 2019)

It's a Vermont Castings Defiant...it has a cat and secondary chamber.

Thanks for the tips.  To answer some questions/comments.  

Getting 2 year old wood near me is a near impossibility unless I cut it myself.  Problem is, I only started cutting a year ago, so I can't make the time go any faster. Most dealers' wood is even less seasoned as mine....I know they cut and split it as recently as the summer.  And yes, getting a hot, hot fire does reduce some of the black on the glass, but once I close the damper to let the EPA cat do its thing, it comes back.  I do not get much hissing or water coming out of the logs...I've watched for that and mostly see none. I had some in September do that, but haven't seen it since. I tend to burn ash, maple, and hickory. I've been letting the oak sit as long as possible.  The logs I'm splitting are from fallen, dead trees, or trees that were felled for a building site 18 months ago.  

I have a bunch of stacks going so by next season, I should have wood that is seasoned 12-18 months and longer as time goes on.  My stacks are spaced and in the sun/wind on pallets, under a lean-to.  

I tend to burn a hot fire (650-700 degrees per the stovetop thermometer) and really get it going.  I start small, add logs, and once they get to 550 or so, i tend to load the box up with wood.  I give it another 15 minutes and make sure it's burning nicely from the bottom up, and once it's at 650-700 i close the damper and let it run overnight.  During the day, I tend to it more so the temperature doesn't really drop much below 550 with the damper closed. If it does, I open it back up, let it get hot, add wood, and close it again.

I read something here about the opening in the flue collar that I will seal up could cause some creosote down low.  So maybe that's not helping me either on top of less than ideally seasoned wood.  When the damper is closed I hardly see smoke coming from the chimney.


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## Dobish (Nov 19, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> It's a Vermont Castings Defiant...it has a cat and secondary chamber.
> 
> Thanks for the tips. To answer some questions/comments.
> 
> ...


Do you have a cat thermometer? If not, get one. Many of us have the auber at, which is a huge help. I had a similar problem with wet wood a few years ago, and finally started mixing in lumber scraps. Now that my wood is really dry, i don't get black glass at all. These stoves are very sensitive to wet wood, so even if you think it is dry, it probably isn't. 

Are you turning down the air as well as engaging the cat? If you are, try leaving it open.


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## rjrdomer (Nov 19, 2019)

I'll order an Auber AT and see how that goes.  I assume it's easy to install.  I am turning down the air about 10-15 minutes after closing the damper/engaging the cat.  I took everything apart 2 days ago and the cat was very clean (no creosote buildup there).  The flue looked clean too.  Just my doors that seem to be a mess.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 19, 2019)

Don't know if this will help but I've noticed on my Intrepid flexburn the more the secondary is closed the cleaner the glass will be.  Wondering if this is a common denominator with all the flexburns?   To add with the bypass damper open the secondary is closed all the way the glass stays absolutely clean even with the primary nearly closed.  I don't know the exact flow path of my Intrepid though between the primary and the secondary but the conclusion I'm drawing now with what I've seen is that the secondary air dilutes the air wash either in volume or velocity or both.  I'm pretty certain of that.  Now with that all said, the Intrepid combuster is different than the other VC flexburns but I think the concept is similar.   So if the drier wood makes no difference than maybe play with the secondary air?  Just saying.


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## rwh63 (Nov 19, 2019)

both the Seneca and it's big brother the Sequoia are catalytic stoves.


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## begreen (Nov 19, 2019)

I've heard of the Sequoia but have never seen either model. Tell us more about it, how and where the cat is mounted and serviced. Looks a bit more like a CDW design. Were they out of the VT factory or imported?

Edit: Yes I see now this is a Dutchwest Seneca. Are you on the original refractory package still?


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## rwh63 (Nov 19, 2019)

yes, original refractory piece that covers the catalytic .  two rebuilds since new.   cat is mounted under the top lid, in the inner top.  they were CDW stoves.  i believe out of vermont.  not  sure how many years they were made.









						Dutchwest Seneca Stove
					





					www.cozycabinstoveandfireplaceparts.com


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## Reckless (Nov 19, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> I posted a few weeks ago. I have been using my VC Defiant at my vacation home as my sole heat source when there. It has worked great. Just a few things I was wondering if anyone can opine on. My glass doors...they are black. And not just with some ashes like Ash Wednesday Ashes. But crusted on creosote. How do I get this off? I tried the water+ash trick, I tried soapy water and elbow grease. Can I take a razor blade to it and scrape? Has anyone used any of the Rutland Creosote remover that you burn that's supposed to loosen any potential creosote in the chimney? I'm burning all hardwood, however it's only been seasoned about 6-12 months. I typically get the fire started with 1 or 2 pieces of fatwood and newspaper with a smaller log or two and then just add hardwood split logs after that.
> 
> Secondly, there is a visible gap between my chimney pipe and flue collar and you can hear a whistling noise when the stove is running with the damper open. Does this gap need to be closed? I read somewhere that creosote could form down low if there are gaps in the flue collar. I've attached a video. Hopefully it went through. Thanks in advance.



I would personally pull the chimney pipe off, reshape it a little, fold a long length of tin foil a few times and then fold it around the edge of the chimney pipe and reinstall it. Once reinstalled use a small flat head screw driver and push the excess back down so it helps fill the gaps and make it not visible. As for black glass I also occasionally use Rutland glass cleaner, newspaper and a touch of ash if it’s really cooked on but honestly I clean the glass 2-3 times a season max. 


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## Reckless (Nov 19, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> I'll order an Auber AT and see how that goes. I assume it's easy to install. I am turning down the air about 10-15 minutes after closing the damper/engaging the cat. I took everything apart 2 days ago and the cat was very clean (no creosote buildup there). The flue looked clean too. Just my doors that seem to be a mess.



You will also need a thermocouple probe, I believe K type? Maybe someone can verify that as I still use the one that came with my condar kit and the auber. 
It looks like you have room behind so you could go the cheap route cause something is better than nothing





						Condar catalytic thermometers
					

Condar catalytic probe thermometers are made of varing lengths to accomodate most catalytic wood stove models and extend the life of its catalyst.



					www.condar.com
				




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## Woody Stover (Nov 20, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> I read something here about the opening in the flue collar that I will seal up could cause some creosote down low.  So maybe that's not helping me either on top of less than ideally seasoned wood.  When the damper is closed I hardly see smoke coming from the chimney.


Sound like you aren't doing to badly, over all. They make some stove sealant that is rated for 1100 intermittent temp but that area right at the flue opening could get even hotter, I don't know. Furnace cement will just crumble out of the gap in a short time. There is also some other types of high-temp refractory cement. Try some of the flat stove gasket first, or maybe some interam gasket..?
Try to get some soft Maple split and stacked ASAP. That stuff will be dry by next fall, though it won't burn as long as Oak or White Ash. That White Ash might be pretty decent come fall, with 18 months drying.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 20, 2019)

I have smething similar, a gap where the stove pipe goes into a masonary thimble in the chimney and I just stuff some gasket material in there and it works great.  That's covered by a dress ring around the stove pipe anyway there so you don't see it.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 22, 2019)

Another Intrepid Flexburn update:  After discussions on senondary air intake on this thread and others recently, I'm taking the plung and installing a manual secondary air intake control.  Easy to do, just disconnect ball chain from bypass damper handle shaft and connect to another Handel to be installed nearby.  This would give the most control possible with this stove the way I see it.  Have a feeling it will be in the closed position most of the time.  Handel will have spring tension to maintain position like the thermostat control.  The secondary air flap just lays on the frame so no way it is sealed even when closed.  Hopefully can get this done in a couple weeks or so.  Otherwise save for steel cat clogging some with ash is working well and like with any stove size, type, and MC of wood means everything on performance.


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## Diabel (Nov 22, 2019)

Interesting, that tinkering needs be with a brand new stove.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 22, 2019)

What's interesting is the Intrepid II had a thermostatically controlled secondary.   The Intrepid Flexburn does not, it's fixed.  Even though the two have different combustion chambers it would be safe to assume I would think the the secondary air would serve the same purpose in the secondary combustion process.  In the Intrepid II it was thought  have it open only during low burns but in the flexburn to keep it open just the same in all levels of burn.  I'm not an engineer but would love to hear what the thinking is by VC in the secondary airflow in this stove just for the oppurtunity to understand it.  They obviously didn't want us to know anything about the function of the secondary air as there is no mention of its existence in the owners manual.  Well I'm challenging myself to figure that out I guess.  Anyways still more positives than negatives.


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## ajayabb (Nov 22, 2019)

Bedtime 

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## Reckless (Dec 7, 2019)

Really quiet around here. Supposed to get down 14 tonight and hit 60 by Tuesday..... what a wild winter so far


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## Northern NH Mike (Dec 7, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Really quiet around here. Supposed to get down 14 tonight and hit 60 by Tuesday..... what a wild winter so far
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've got 9* here just north of the notches.  It's been flurrying all day.  Would prefer the rain and mild temps stay away myself.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 8, 2019)

18 here this morning.  55 and rain Tuesdayay.  30 and some snow Wednesday.


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## Diabel (Dec 8, 2019)

Yes, indeed very quiet in this thread
I suppose all the VCs working as they should


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## Reckless (Dec 8, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Yes, indeed very quiet in this thread
> I suppose all the VCs working as they should



Or everyone is running around trying to avoid thermonuclear catastrophes, no time to type [emoji23][emoji23]

8* when I woke up this morning with some coals to get the beast roaring again. 


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## rwh63 (Dec 8, 2019)

wood stove pumping out heat, cornbread in the oven, football on tv


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## Diabel (Dec 8, 2019)

rwh63 said:


> wood stove pumping out heat, cornbread in the oven, football on tv
> 
> View attachment 253104


Very cozy.
But please stop shooting pellets at your stove!


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## rwh63 (Dec 8, 2019)

irreversible issue, after 23 straight winters.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 8, 2019)

ajayabb said:


> Bedtime
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love your alcove. I’m super jealous. My hearth sucks right now. Functional but ugly.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 8, 2019)

Its basically 40 here today. Stove went cold last night due to attending a Christmas party and returning home late. Took advantage of a cold stove and mild temps today to sweep the chimney. Will return to burning 24/7 tonight after the kiddos go down.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 8, 2019)

rjrdomer said:


> It's a Vermont Castings Defiant...it has a cat and secondary chamber.
> 
> Thanks for the tips.  To answer some questions/comments.
> 
> ...


When I still had the oval to round flue collar on my encore I just used furnace cement to fill the gaps. It will crack over time but it stays in place and functions well. I have since switched to a round flue collar and  a 6” pipe.


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## Northern NH Mike (Dec 9, 2019)

I got a pretty good burn cycle going in my Encore this weekend.  The maple is definitely not as dry as I would like it to be, but it put out a good amount of heat.  After ten years of running the stove the nuclear flare ups are fewer.  I think the stove and I have come to a mutual understanding.


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## rwh63 (Dec 9, 2019)

45 degrees outside tonight.  giving the wood stove and wood pile a day off.


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## Reckless (Dec 9, 2019)

Northern NH Mike said:


> I got a pretty good burn cycle going in my Encore this weekend. The maple is definitely not as dry as I would like it to be, but it put out a good amount of heat. After ten years of running the stove the nuclear flare ups are fewer. I think the stove and I have come to a mutual understanding.



Don’t you trust it!!


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## Northern NH Mike (Dec 12, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Don’t you trust it!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Trust, but verify ;-)


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2019)

No super cedars or fat wood needed


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Thanks Kevin - I've definitely got more house than stove, and a >30ft interior chimney, so I guess in those aspects the wind is at my back (or going up my flue pipe?).
> 
> RJ - The K probe (temperature probe) goes exactly where the current probe is on the back of the stove. That is the entire installation! The AT100 is just the display / user interface. It allows you to see, digitally, what temperature the K-probe is reading as well as set alarms for maximum cat temps.
> 
> ...


I would change your alarm to 1550. This is where I have mine set. I get nervous with any readings above 1550. Cats are to expensive to let them go nuclear.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Good morning everyone. Hopefully we are all almost ready for another burn season.
> Question for the experts:
> I am about to clean the chimney, replace the griddle gasket, put in a new cat. I am debating if I should replace the bypass gasket (no easy task). It has been four years since the rebuilt and the stove has been used almost 24/7 Nov to Apr (less several winter vacations).


Diabel, did you ever end up doing your damper gasket?


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Diabel, did you ever end up doing your damper gasket?


No, it sounded like a big job (as per @bholler). I just put a new cat it and it seems to work fine. The VC seems to be releasing less plume than the BK. I don’t get it.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> No, it sounded like a big job (as per @bholler). I just put a new cat it and it seems to work fine. The VC seems to be releasing less plume than the BK. I don’t get it.


my defiant at my cabin actually has a 2” piece of damper gasket missing. So I just cut a 2” piece of gasket and set it in the groove to get me through the weekend. I am definitely not looking forward to that job of replacing it. Plus we are on the wrong side of the burn season to be dealing with that right now.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> my defiant at my cabin actually has a 2” piece of damper gasket missing. So I just cut a 2” piece of gasket and set it in the groove to get me through the weekend. I am definitely not looking forward to that job of replacing it. Plus we are on the wrong side of the burn season to be dealing with that right now.


A spring job waiting for you for sure.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2019)

Now, if I could only figure out haw to pass my sooteater through the by pass door to clean my chimney!


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## Reckless (Dec 20, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> my defiant at my cabin actually has a 2” piece of damper gasket missing. So I just cut a 2” piece of gasket and set it in the groove to get me through the weekend. I am definitely not looking forward to that job of replacing it. Plus we are on the wrong side of the burn season to be dealing with that right now.



Going to have to pull the flue collar at minimum......


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## Diabel (Dec 20, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Going to have to pull the flue collar at minimum......
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you think it can be done via flue collar way? Much better than pulling the whole damper assembly out.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2019)

If you could get the damper plate out it might make the job easier. I’m not sure if that’s possible without taking out the whole thing. Did jharkin take the whole thing out on his rebuild?  I will have to scroll back to his thread.


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## Diabel (Dec 21, 2019)

He did. When I did the rebuild 5 yrs ago I had everything out.


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## Reckless (Dec 21, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Do you think it can be done via flue collar way? Much better than pulling the whole damper assembly out.



I did mine through the flue collar, not bad at all. I used wood working clamps to help hold at the corners then used news paper to separate the door from the upper to keep them from getting stuck together while curing. If you have a Dremel with a flex extension you’re golden, I did mine with out one and it worked out fine. 

Getting the upper out is a huge pain that I avoid at all costs. 


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## Reckless (Dec 21, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If you could get the damper plate out it might make the job easier. I’m not sure if that’s possible without taking out the whole thing. Did jharkin take the whole thing out on his rebuild? I will have to scroll back to his thread.



I did mine with damper plate in but yea if you can get to the bolts go for it. I’m a minimalist. 


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 21, 2019)

my cat temp just peaked out at 1632... had me going for a moment..


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 21, 2019)

Mine was up to 1425 tonite before I turned the primary all the way down to settle it.  Highest it's been so far this year.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 21, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> my cat temp just peaked out at 1632... had me going for a moment..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes. That would have me a little nervous


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 22, 2019)

this was with the air turned all the way back. some times this happens when i put in to my largest splits in and they gas off all at once.. normally i put 2 in and then medium size splits. this time i put 3 ... 4x6 or larger in and a couple medium and this is what i got.. it didnt last long.. which was nice.. stove pipe was in the low 500 range while this was going on..


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 22, 2019)

Yep, makes sense don't put small on top of big.  Thought about this the other day when I had a 350 spike in 30 seconds.  Figured I need to try to configure the loading to try to limit all pieces off gassing at once.


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## Turfguy (Dec 30, 2019)

Just wanted to say hi, wish everyone a happy new year burning in 2020. Enjoying our VC Montpelier it’s our second winter with it in the basement. We use it mostly on weekends to heat the kids playroom. Looking to add another stove into a open fireplace
In our living room in the coming year.


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## Diabel (Dec 30, 2019)

Turfguy said:


> Just wanted to say hi, wish everyone a happy new year burning in 2020. Enjoying our VC Montpelier it’s our second winter with it in the basement. We use it mostly on weekends to heat the kids playroom. Looking to add another stove into a open fireplace
> In our living room in the coming year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking good! Happy New Year.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 30, 2019)

happy new year my vc friends.. lots of happy burning going on over here. had the chimney cleaned on 12-6 after a year burning and got mostly a gray graphite colored powder.  im so enjoying my stove.


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## alivegas99 (Dec 30, 2019)

Yes, happy burning to all! 3 months of burning and no problems whatsoever with my VC.  Has been a great wood stove for me thus far. A pleasurable experience.

Really chewing through wood tho! Nothing abnormal but didn’t realize my 4 to 5 cords may not make it past April.  Thought I was going to have some left over haha. I’m not sure processing all this wood myself is going to be possible! Supplementing isn’t the worst thing in the world I guess...


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## Dobish (Dec 30, 2019)

Enjoying a load of pine and willow tonight. I need to bring some more wood up in the next few days. So far this season I've gone through a little more than a cord. Most of it has been larger rounds that i have to fight into three stove, but i don't want to carry them back down to the splitter! I'm about ready for a cleaning if the chimney, maybe new year's day.


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## Diabel (Dec 31, 2019)

Dobish said:


> Enjoying a load of pine and willow tonight. I need to bring some more wood up in the next few days. So far this season I've gone through a little more than a cord. Most of it has been larger rounds that i have to fight into three stove, but i don't want to carry them back down to the splitter! I'm about ready for a cleaning if the chimney, maybe new year's day.


Yeah, fitting irregular splits into the encore can be tricky....top or front.....
Loading the BK is almost comical. I laugh every time I load it. It almost takes anything.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 31, 2019)

I’m just under a cord for 1400 sqft. I was out of town for thanksgiving and Christmas so that’s about 9 days saved. Plus it’s been warm so demands are low. If it’s above 30 and sunny a small load will carry me to my overnight load.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 1, 2020)

This is after 13 hours. House is 70 degrees, outside probably mid 20’s. Loaded at 9 last night and took these pics at 10:00 this morning.  Was able to keep the cat between 1400-1550 with stovetop at 400-450.  Glass isn’t bad either.


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## Diabel (Jan 1, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> This is after 13 hours. House is 70 degrees, outside probably mid 20’s. Loaded at 9 last night and took these pics at 10:00 this morning.  Was able to keep the cat between 1400-1550 with stovetop at 400-450.  Glass isn’t bad either.


Impressive! Good feeling right!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 3, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> This is after 13 hours. House is 70 degrees, outside probably mid 20’s. Loaded at 9 last night and took these pics at 10:00 this morning.  Was able to keep the cat between 1400-1550 with stovetop at 400-450.  Glass isn’t bad either.


thats great.. love the long burns and the the large range of heat output. i see the back of your stove is different than mine.. what stove do u have


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2020)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> thats great.. love the long burns and the the large range of heat output. i see the back of your stove is different than mine.. what stove do u have


It’s a 2550. The tag on the back of the stove says 2250 but it’s identical to the 2550. I have never been able to find out why it’s tagged 2250.


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## Reckless (Jan 3, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It’s a 2550. The tag on the back of the stove says 2250 but it’s identical to the 2550. I have never been able to find out why it’s tagged 2250.



Looks like a 2550 to me too, probably just some good quality control. 


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## Diabel (Jan 3, 2020)

Reckless said:


> Looks like a 2550 to me too, probably just some good quality control.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The tag was punched on a Friday afternoon.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 3, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m just under a cord for 1400 sqft....it’s been warm so demands are low. If it’s above 30 and sunny a small load will carry me to my overnight load.


I like burning wood and all, but every day that goes by where I don't have to burn as much wood, I view as work saved.   We had a couple ten-degree nights here a while back, but many more days like today where it's 46 out. 
I need to find a way to determine how much wood I actually burn in a season; I have my wood separated by specie and I'm always pulling from different stacks..


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 3, 2020)

Woody Stover said:


> I like burning wood and all, but every day that goes by where I don't have to burn as much wood, I view as work saved.   We had a couple ten-degree nights here a while back, but many more days like today where it's 46 out.
> I need to find a way to determine how much wood I actually burn in a season; I have my wood separated by specie and I'm always pulling from different stacks..


Your climate is pretty close to mine so this sounds about accurate. I have stacks all over the place to but I use my garage storage as my calculator.  The rack is just under a face cord and all the shorts and uglies stacked on the floor pretty much round things out to an even face cord.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 3, 2020)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Your climate is pretty close to mine so this sounds about accurate. I have stacks all over the place to but I use my garage storage as my calculator.  The rack is just under a face cord and all the shorts and uglies stacked on the floor pretty much round things out to an even face cord.


Yeah, I could do something like that. I have "staging stacks" near the door, I'd just have to take some measurements every time I haul wood up with the quad and trailer..


We're a good couple of ticks warmer than you are; And we've been getting away with murder down here so far.._*murder*_, I tell ya! heheh
From usclimatedata.com


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 8, 2020)

Last Intrepid Flexburn update:  I've tweaked the hell out of this stove without permanently changing any settings /functions.  To bring everybody up to date the tweaks so far have been to close off the secondary air.  This was done just by disconnecting the ball chain from the damper lever.  I felt this was "diluting" the air flow going into the firebox via the air wash from the primary.  The primary intake flap has a round hole the size of a nickel so you can't close the air off completely anyways.  This also made the primary air control a little more responsive.  The secondary combustion chamber has five 3/8" holes on the refractory for combustion prior the cat.  This shares the incoming air with the air wash from the primary.  Secondary air appears to have bypassed the combustion chamber itself went behind it to try to mountain a draft by suction  on the combustion chamber to keep carbon monoxide going up the flue if the draft for some reason the draftjust stopped while it was still burning.  This is what I was told be a local chimney sweep.  The last tweak I did was to slightly reduce the amount of air going directly to the combustion chamber from the primary which would b default put more air through the air wash to the fire then back to the combustion chamber intake.  VC from the factory put a stainless steel resistor plate in the combustion chamber to reduce the air flow through three of the holes and may be an attempt to balance the air flow between the combustion chamber and the air wash.   The result of all of this was a more uniform and higher heat output of the stove top and a more stable longer running heat setting.  Okay so because more heat is being diverted to the stove top, less heat is going to the cat cooling it down to around 650-700 generally and therefore more smoke going out the Chimney, a downside.  At this setting the stovetop is around 400.  It will hold this for about 3 hours depending on size/type/moisture content of wood as would be expected.  Overall I give it a 'B'.  As with all VC stoves this is a little draft needy but not as much as it's big brothers which essentially have a double downdraft design as compared to a single downdraft with the Intrepid.


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## Rahm (Jan 9, 2020)

Haven't been on here all year but I wanted to let everyone know about the Cat probe setup that I have. I didn't want to get the Auber because I don't like the lit up color display and I didn't want something that had to be plugged into the wall. So I bought this:

Amazon product

It runs on a 9v battery. This is my third season using it and I just replaced the battery a month ago for the first time. The two downsides to this are that there's no alarm so it won't warn you if the cat is too hot and it's only in centigrade. But centigrade isn't really a problem as long as you know a couple conversions (260c = 500f and 870c = 1600f) so I just try to keep it between 300 and 800.

I bought this probe for it because the one it comes with isn't rated for high enough temperatures.









						1M High Temperature 0~400 Degree Thermocouple K type 100mm Probe Sensors  | eBay
					

Feature: Fits all our temperature controllers This item has been tested in good working condition Allows forming and bending of the thermocouple without the risk of cracking Operating Temperature:-100–1250°C Probe Material:Stainless Steel Probe Diameter:5mm Threads Size:8mm Probe Length:100mm...



					www.ebay.com
				




the whole setup costs less than $20, significantly cheaper than the Auber or the Condor.


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## begreen (Jan 9, 2020)

Wow, that's a lot cheaper.


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## Openroadguy (Jan 9, 2020)

Hello everyone - 
three years ago we bought a Vermont Castings Defiant wood stove.   While we like it we have not figured out a few different things I’m hoping to get some guidance on. 

1.  Without the cat engaged,  we can’t really control the temperature on the fire.  Even if I turn the air intake all the way down it barely does anything.  Is this normal?
2..   when the cat is on,  the stove puffs a lot when I turn the temperature down .  At best I can turn it down 3/4 before it starts puffing.  Usually at most 1/2.  Is this normal?  Shouldn’t I be able to turn it way down with the cat engaged?

In general,  it Seems like I don’t have much control on running the stove cooler.  I dont think that’s normal ,  but wanted to get some others perspectives.

thank you in advance for any help!


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 10, 2020)

Openroadguy said:


> Hello everyone -
> three years ago we bought a Vermont Castings Defiant wood stove.   While we like it we have not figured out a few different things I’m hoping to get some guidance on.
> 
> 1.  Without the cat engaged,  we can’t really control the temperature on the fire.  Even if I turn the air intake all the way down it barely does anything.  Is this normal?
> ...



A couple things the VC flex burns are draft needy.  If your draft is weak that is probably most of your problem.  They also don't like "wet" wood whatsoever.  Also in play maybe the secondary air intake is not operating or adjusted properly.  The more secondary air you have the less sensitive the primarair control will be.  Some have disconnected the secondary air altogether and have better primary air control has the result.  To me your issue sounds Iike weak draft and/or wet wood.  Lots of things you may be able to do to promote better draft as per previous threads on this.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 15, 2020)

Other flexburn owners here, have you found at what temp your glass will burn off accumulated creosote/tar?  The hottest I can get my glass is around the 475 mark which apparently isn't sufficient to do this well.  have heard somewhere that around 600 is the temp needed to do this. Can anyone verify this?  Also in a quick study of cat vs. non cat stoves on this the non cats seem to have fewer problems with this.  As such I conclude that since cat stoves (VC) tend to pull  the fire/heat toward the back is in fact pulling the heat from the front and the air wash for the glass is essentially cold air not heated much, this keeps the glass cooler, no?  This as opposed to non cats with secondary burn tubes that pull the fire/heat it seems toward the front (glass) and able to burn the glass clean better?  Thoughts anyone.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 15, 2020)

Probably mostly true. The air wash air may be heated some, being drawn through ducts that are exposed to firebox heat. Non-cats have an air wash too, but yeah when the secondary is burning a lot of heat goes forward under the baffle to exit the stove.
A lot of glass cleanliness has to do with how dry the wood is, and how low you run the stove. You can't run a non-cat real low, or the burn gets dirty.


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## Northern NH Mike (Jan 17, 2020)

Woody Stover said:


> Probably mostly true. The air wash air may be heated some, being drawn through ducts that are exposed to firebox heat. Non-cats have an air wash too, but yeah when the secondary is burning a lot of heat goes forward under the baffle to exit the stove.
> A lot of glass cleanliness has to do with how dry the wood is, and how low you run the stove. You can't run a non-cat real low, or the burn gets dirty.



The hotter I run my non-cat, the cleaner the glass stays.  On start up, the glass is very sensitive to any wood that has the cut end close to it.  It'll blacken pretty quickly.  Once things get rolling, the soot/creosote burns off quickly and completely.  So long as I run efficiently I have no problem until the next start up.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 17, 2020)

Woody Stover said:


> Probably mostly true. The air wash air may be heated some, being drawn through ducts that are exposed to firebox heat. Non-cats have an air wash too, but yeah when the secondary is burning a lot of heat goes forward under the baffle to exit the stove.
> A lot of glass cleanliness has to do with how dry the wood is, and how low you run the stove. You can't run a non-cat real low, or the burn gets dirty.



The air wash ducts in the Intrepid are really not exposed to much heat at all save for the vertical manifold next to the doors.  The ducts to the manifolds are on the bottom next to the sides and mostly get buried in ash.


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## alivegas99 (Jan 17, 2020)

I’m always trying to maximize wood volume into the Encore before overnight burns. The firebox is about 24 inches wide but I typically can’t get much bigger than 20 inches into the top loader, less after every piece of wood I put in. This leaves me with >20% of my stove volume empty after maximum loading.

I’ve been finding that, with my cuts of wood varying  between 15 and 20 inches, the shorter cuts I can place vertically in the stove, all the way to the side,  and then fill the remainder of the volume of the stove, stacking splits horizontally, all the way to the top. It is like getting an entire extra piece of would into stove. I’ve noticed a slightly hotter stove and more coals making for an easier/faster restart the next day (and I assume some extra heat at night).  Others may already do this or have better methods but I thought it might help some.


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## ajayabb (Jan 17, 2020)

Moisture content has been a problem with my firewood this year. Decided to purchase Bio Blocks for my stove this week. Performance has been much better


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 18, 2020)

TSC has them on sale now or did at least the ones near me.


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## Diabel (Jan 18, 2020)

ajayabb said:


> Moisture content has been a problem with my firewood this year. Decided to purchase Bio Blocks for my stove this week. Performance has been much better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is one good looking stove!


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## Slim51 (Oct 7, 2020)

Hey everyone. I made a post about this but didn’t get any responses. I’m in the final phase of rebuilding my defiant encore 2190 (waiting on the thermostat assembly) and really want to install an auber temp meter to monitor cat temps. Should I get the 100 or 200? K probe? 4 or 6”? And most importantly WHERE do I install the probe for cat temps?


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## Diabel (Oct 7, 2020)

I have the 100, works great. I think it comes with 6” probe. Right above where you will insert your new thermostat probe there is a little cap, you remove that you drill through the refractory box (bit slightly smaller than the probe diam.) and gently insert the probe making sure you do not poke a hole on the front wall of the refractory box.


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## Slim51 (Oct 7, 2020)

Diabel said:


> I have the 100, works great. I think it comes with 6” probe. Right above where you will insert your new thermostat probe there is a little cap, you remove that you drill through the refractory box (bit slightly smaller than the probe diam.) and gently insert the probe making sure you do not poke a hole on the front wall of the refractory box.



awesome, thank you. Just got my thermostat assembly for the primary air control. Anyidea why this is spring loaded? I can open it but it does not stay open, instead it just swings back shut when I let go. This is the handle to the right of the stove (in case I’m using the wrong terms, I’m new to vc lol).


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## begreen (Oct 7, 2020)

Folks, it's time for a new thread for the new heating season. This one is closing down. Posted a new thread here:





						2020/21 VC Owners thread
					

This is the place for all things Vermont Castings, picking up from last season's thread here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2019-20-vc-owners-thread.176856




					www.hearth.com


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