# Fire Chief FC1000 year 2



## Mrpelletburner (Oct 2, 2018)

Yes, I am back for a 2nd year with the Fire Chief.


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## cumminstinkerer (Oct 2, 2018)

@Mrpelletburner I will occasionally experience that with my homemade boiler that is running secondary combustion, when that happens I have the secondary air fan to slow and it builds up a bunch of gas then gets just enough air to lite off. if I just speed the secondary fan up a very tiny bit it takes off and stops puff and runs super clean and hot.


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## maple1 (Oct 2, 2018)

Man, you're a sucker for punishment for keeping that, umm, thing around.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 2, 2018)

A little late to be visiting this now if you were wanting different results vs last year, don't ya think?


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 2, 2018)

Edited


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## DoubleB (Oct 2, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> At this point, I just want a refund. I can’t be the only one with these issues.



Get your leverage lined up and use it to get a refund.  Leverage can be insurance company blacklisting the furnace; fire inspector; BBB; local news station; social media; use your imagination.  The point is not to be an opportunistic vulture, the point is they sold you something other than advertised.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 2, 2018)

Oh man, I about choked on my spit when I saw your thread title...I though there is _no way_ he is back for a second season with that Piece Of Scrap! I can't believe it...seriously!
I thought your wife banished that thing from the house?!
As far as HY-C coming out...they were just hoping to find fault in something with the house/chimney/wood supply/etc. Not finding anything, they've got nothing for you.
It's just a bad design...check that, its a TERRIBLE design! Taking primary and "secondary" air from the same intake will never work, never! 
And you are not the only one with issues, IIRC there was a whole handful of people last winter that weren't thrilled with their FC1000.
Ask for a refund...DEMAND a refund! You have went so far above and beyond that its just crazy! *No way* I would have risked mine and my family's health and safety, and my home/belongings, for doing their R n D for them!
If they drag their feet for a full refund, I'd raise a stink like they have never seen before After I was done you wouldn't be able to look *anything* up online about a FC1000 without reading my negative experience with it


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## brenndatomu (Oct 2, 2018)

Oh, and I noticed in the first vid that you have a Sooteater...HY-C _does_ know how to clean a chimney, don't they?!


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## brenndatomu (Oct 2, 2018)

Just for fun I looked up "Fire Chief FC1000 reviews" look what comes up right away!
And notice that the only people that are happy, DO NOT have the new "EPA" model(s), they have one of the old FC models...
https://www.furnacecompare.com/wood-furnaces/fire-chief/reviews/


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## TCaldwell (Oct 3, 2018)

Didn’t read last years thread but If the issue is back puffing, there’s too much primary air in relationship to the secondary air, dryer wood is going to magnify the problem.


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## maple1 (Oct 3, 2018)

TCaldwell said:


> Didn’t read last years thread but If the issue is back puffing, there’s too much primary air in relationship to the secondary air, dryer wood is going to magnify the problem.



You should. 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...a-stoves-feedback.167418/page-21#post-2263116


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## TCaldwell (Oct 3, 2018)

Sorry, I’m not reading 22 pages of threads


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 3, 2018)

Edited


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## brenndatomu (Oct 3, 2018)

TCaldwell said:


> If the issue is back puffing, there’s too much primary air in relationship to the secondary air


Exactly...that's what I have been saying all along...and IMO there's no way to fix it without some HEAVY mods to the firebox


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## Medic21 (Oct 6, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Yes, I am back for a 2nd year with the Fire Chief FC1000 and even with the wood another season drying, same results.
> 
> Wood measures 20% moisture
> 
> ...




Your Wood measures 21 and 22.  Also that is within the outside 2” or so.  Split that right down the middle and you probably have 23%-24%.  Not the 15%-20% recommended for epa stoves.  Not to mention how inaccurate the cheap handheld meters are.  

There is a serious flaw with the air intake, something H-YC should come up with a design change to fix.  I have a design to modify mine once it’s in the shop.  Using a flapper like on the outdoor boiler for the fan and adding another source of secondary air.  It kinda defeats the purpose though.  

Did you just add wood and not let it burn for fifteen minutes or so prior to the puffing?  That bottom piece is putting off a ton of smoke for how charred it is.  Usually wet to do that.  This year has been horrible to season firewood and any wood I have that was not ready last year is not ready this year either.  Even what was covered that is two seasons old has not dropped moisture from last year.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 6, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Did you just add wood and not let it burn for fifteen minutes or so prior to the puffing?  That bottom piece is putting off a ton of smoke for how charred it is.  Usually wet to do that.  This year has been horrible to season firewood and any wood I have that was not ready last year is not ready this year either.  Even what was covered that is two seasons old has not dropped moisture from last year.



Didn’t just add wood, was actually letting the fire go out.

The split has been around for 3 seasons split and stacked under cover in the wood shed.

That one burning split was causing the “back puffing”. Why is this smoke not going up the flue and just staying in the fire box.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 6, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> That one burning split was causing the “back puffing”. Why is this smoke not going up the flue and just staying in the fire box.


A proper EPA firebox burns that smoke making more heat instead of more chimney farts...


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## Medic21 (Oct 6, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Didn’t just add wood, was actually letting the fire go out.
> 
> The split has been around for 3 seasons split and stacked under cover in the wood shed.
> 
> That one burning split was causing the “back puffing”. Why is this smoke not going up the flue and just staying in the fire box.




That is the secondary air problem.  not enough air but enough fuel and heat.  





I want to try something like this with it.


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## laynes69 (Oct 6, 2018)

That fire is nowhere near large enough to maintain enough heat in that firebox! If you're trying to burn a quick fire, use small splits no larger than a few inches in diameter and crisp cross them and keep the damper open. Let it burn out.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 6, 2018)

laynes69 said:


> If you're trying to burn a quick fire, use small splits no larger than a few inches in diameter and crisp cross them and keep the damper open


That works great in most fireboxes, but these things are so screwy I think those small splits will gas off too hard and do the same ole backpuff crap


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## Medic21 (Oct 6, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> That works great in most fireboxes, but these things are so screwy I think those small splits will gas off too hard and do the same ole backpuff crap



When I do it I turn the thermostat to 90 and let it burn the entire load.  Small fires once or twice a day when it’s 40-50 out keeps heat in the house without the puffing problem.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 6, 2018)

IIRC, OP said last year he tried that and still got puffs


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 7, 2018)

Here ya go............lol


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## Medic21 (Oct 8, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Here ya go............lol
> 
> View attachment 230420




I’d love to have that for my shop.  Looks like it’s in good condition still.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 8, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> I’d love to have that for my shop.  Looks like it’s in good condition still.


I think its for sale


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## Medic21 (Oct 8, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> I think its for sale



Do you deliver lol


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 8, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Do you deliver lol



License get revoked?    LOL


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## brenndatomu (Oct 8, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Do you deliver lol


For the right price. 
Gonna be high though...I already made my trip to Wisconsin for the year.


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## Medic21 (Oct 8, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> License get revoked?    LOL



Harvest time would be the best time for that to happen lol.  Unfortunately no, I get to go from a 14hr shift on the boo boo bus to the semi in the morning.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 8, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> boo boo bus


 never heard that one before



Medic21 said:


> to the semi in the morning.


Hauling corn?​


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## Medic21 (Oct 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> never heard that one before
> Hauling corn?​



Corn and soy beans.  We had just gotten harvest started and got hit  with 3 inches of rain friday


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## brenndatomu (Oct 9, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Corn and soy beans.  We had just gotten harvest started and got hit  with 3 inches of rain friday


Yeah we have had rain every few days for the last month, they are using 4x4 tractors with duals the whole way around and pulling dump carts to get the corn out to the trucks on the road due to the mud


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## Medic21 (Oct 9, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Yeah we have had rain every few days for the last month, they are using 4x4 tractors with duals the whole way around and pulling dump carts to get the corn out to the trucks on the road due to the mud



Doesn’t look like it will be much better this week, heavy rains tomorrow now.  Also gonna lose the warm drying days starting Friday.   Lows down into the 30’s this weekend.


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## sloeffle (Oct 10, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Harvest time would be the best time for that to happen lol.  Unfortunately no, I get to go from a 14hr shift on the boo boo bus to the semi in the morning.


Took me a minute to get what boo boo bus meant. That is pretty good.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 10, 2018)

sloeffle said:


> Took me a minute to get what boo boo bus meant. That is pretty good.



Glad I'm not the only one, I actually had to GOOGLE the freakin' thing.  LOL


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 10, 2018)

So far HY-C has still been involved, lots of calls back and forth. Believe they are working on making things right. In a couple of weeks, I should have more to report.

While I have had issues with the stove, their customer service has been outstanding. I mean, they flew out to my house to double check the setup and go back to the lab to brainstorm.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 10, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> they flew out to my house to double check the setup and go back to the lab to brainstorm.


Not much brainstorming needed...just need to walk down the hall to engineering, pull the page out of their book that has the FC1000 primary/secondary air system design on it, feed it to the engineer that came up with it, then fire him/her, find the next engineer in line and tell them to do better (which should be pretty easy to do)


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## Medic21 (Oct 12, 2018)

Just lit mine for the first time after installing 5 more feet of chimney.  Looks like I’m getting a better burn I’ll see what happens.  Only needs to run for a couple hours tonight.


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## Medic21 (Oct 14, 2018)

Ok, after raising my chimney, it is at or just above the peak of the roof from the eve.  I built a small fire, followed the instructions to a T.  When the kindling and small pieces were down to coals I added three 6” splits at 16% moisture.  They were fully burning and charred with a stack temp of 600 degrees.  I closed it up and it burned for 4 hours with the inducer on continuously and raised the house from 64-71 degrees without problem.  Cold and rainy night so I loaded three more and charred them then three more on top of that.  I closed it up when everything was burning good, I was at 625 on the stack.  Set the thermostat to 73 and went to bed.  9 hours later it was 74 in the house and left at coals.  It was sunny yesterday so I left it go out.  Not one puff of smoke from it over night. 

The conditions were such that before raising the chimney I was not able to burn.  North wind, 35 degrees, and rain.  The other huge improvement I made was replacing a garage door that a screen door would have been as adequate for sealing.  I got a lot longer run times on the fan with a cooler firebox pulling more heat instead of it basically sucking outside air right into it. 

Still a pain in the butt process to start the fire but, worked much better until I can get a boiler installed.  This will give you nothing but problems if you try to close it up too fast when lighting or loading.  My wood is also more seasoned this year after another year in the leantoo.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 22, 2018)

Couple updates...

Have the draft flapper adjusted a just past the riveted spot. I have the non opened end tapped to cut down on the air opening. If you own the stove, you should know what I am talking about.

Cold starts... I now can get the stove going in 15-20mins with a crisscross stack of small splits, using a torch to ignite. Once the center of the stack starts burning at a rate where the torch is no longer required, I remove the torch and close the door. I give the stove 20 mins and then add 3 more splits on the sides. Splits are smaller. This I find allows the fire to grow from the center without adding to much fuel. After about an hour, I can load the box up.

Warm starts... rake the hot coals to the front, stack splits to the back and close the door. Depending on the outside temps and the load, takes about ½ hour or a bit longer for the stove to take off and almost no smoke out the stack.

Now I am still having random back puffs. They usually happens when the draft blower and turns off the first time. Fills the basement with a cloud of smoke. Turning on the draft blower helps eliminate the back puff, however it can still happen. Very frustrating to deal with!!

I have worked a lot with the folks at HY-C, they have from day one always returned calls, visited my house and provided suggestions. They have agreed to switch out the stove for the another model as we can’t seem to find the right formula for my application. There is no doubt this stove takes time to dial in and learn how it works. It is a budget stove with a very sensitive design. I think for X amount of applications out there, this stove would work as advertised. However, for some reason, it just can’t get over the back puffing hump.

One thing that I have noticed as I have become more educated is my stack doesn’t burn clear. When the stove should not have any smoke from the stack, my application has a small cloud of condensation which quickly evaporates into the air. Thinking of pouring vermiculite between the SS liner and the clay lining, see if it helps increase the upper stack temps.

Also, as far as I can tell, I am not having the creosol build up like I did last season.


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## laynes69 (Oct 22, 2018)

Water is a byproduct of combustion in wood. We see condensation until the moisture is burned from the wood. If what is seen from the stack dissipates quickly there's no concern. If its grey, blue or a thick white and hangs around then it's an issue.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 22, 2018)

Video removed


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## maple1 (Oct 22, 2018)

That looks like water vapour. Most prevalent after loading. The more there is, the more moisture in the wood.


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## brenndatomu (Oct 22, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That looks like water vapour.


Agreed


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 22, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That looks like water vapour. Most prevalent after loading. The more there is, the more moisture in the wood.



The video was recorded 1.5hrs after loading. Very prevalent after loading for 1/2hr or a bit longer. No longer having the creosol build up as I had last year.

 Could the vapor also be from the flue temps dropping, creating condensation? I do not have insulation wrapped around my SS liner, trying to gauge if add vermiculite would help.


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## maple1 (Oct 22, 2018)

It will condense whenever it hits temps cool enough to make it. That could be in the air as soon as it hits the air, or it could be somewhere in the pipe if the pipe can get cool enough - doing it in the pipe will also dirty the pipe up, since it also caused the nasties to condense along with it.

Also - all the condensation does not come from moisture in the wood itself. It could also come from moisture in the intake air. Even the cleanest of fossil burners can make stuff like that out their exhaust - or your car or truck even. So even the very driest of wood will still make what looks like that, under the right conditions.


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## JRHAWK9 (Oct 22, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That looks like water _*vapor*_. Most prevalent after loading. The more there is, the more moisture in the wood.




sorry, had to "correct" it.....every time I read it I tried to break out in a French accent.


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## Medic21 (Oct 22, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> Couple updates...
> 
> Have the draft flapper adjusted a just past the riveted spot. I have the non opened end tapped to cut down on the air opening. If you own the stove, you should know what I am talking about.
> 
> ...



Question.  Where is your thermostat set at when firing?   I had the exact same issue and set mine to where the blower will not shut off for a good hour and that cleared up.  Works good when the house is down to 65.  My biggest issue so far this year has been keeping the house consistent on temp.  I don’t mind the 65 in the morning but, I have to get it to 75 before I can set the thermostat to 72 or it will puff. 

I attribute it to the lack of air when it is idleing.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 22, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Question.  Where is your thermostat set at when firing?   I had the exact same issue and set mine to where the blower will not shut off for a good hour and that cleared up.  Works good when the house is down to 65.  My biggest issue so far this year has been keeping the house consistent on temp.  I don’t mind the 65 in the morning but, I have to get it to 75 before I can set the thermostat to 72 or it will puff.
> 
> I attribute it to the lack of air when it is idleing.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 22, 2018)

This is how and how much I have been loading the stove. Hot coals to the front, splits to the back angled up on the hot coals. This I have found allows the wood to catch at a rate the stove can handle.


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## Medic21 (Oct 22, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> This is how and how much I have been loading the stove. Hot coals to the front, splits to the back angled up on the hot coals. This I have found allows the wood to catch at a rate the stove can handle.
> 
> View attachment 231551



I load about that right now but I have the flap clear open.


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## Mrpelletburner (Oct 23, 2018)

This is how much the draft flap is opened. Since the rivet that they added to control the opening has been removed, I added tape to seal that side.


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## Medic21 (Nov 26, 2018)

Not wanting to start another thread on this furnace.  We’ve beat the horse, killed it, tenderized it, dug it up, and beat it again.  

I’ve been in contact with HY-C to get a fix or replacement.   I got a response about how engineering has been working on it.  I received an updated part.  This is their fix to the puffing.  Put two holes past the blower.  I’m a little leery of running a stove that has a direct air opening with no way to close it off.  Emailed back I’d like a call and Waiting to see if any testing has been done.  In the meantime I bought a used hitzer coal/wood furnace for my shop I may just throw in the basement.


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## Mrpelletburner (Nov 26, 2018)

I am assuming the 2 holes are 3/8”? 

What I am trying to figure out is how is that different then just opening the draft blower flap wider, perhaps the flap limits the rush of primary air?


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## cumminstinkerer (Nov 26, 2018)

wow, @Medic21 that seems like a lot of uncontrollable air to me especially on a stove, but it may be about right since primary and secondary both pull from the same opening. I hope it works, if it does a guy could always put a sealing damper/throttle blade in there just after the holes controlled by a honeywell damper motor and have it set up to close on deenergize. that is how most the controls are, the one i have would be ideal, then in the event of a power failure or runaway that flapper would or could be closed, you could even set a high limit and a relay to make it automatic. I don't feel that you should have to but they should, but that is at least an option


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## maple1 (Nov 26, 2018)

That's interesting.

Not sure what it would do differently exactly, than the fan shutting off & the chimney still drawing through the fan opening. Well, it would promote a more active fire in the box when the fan is off. And it would make less air go in the firebox and a less active fire when the fan is running. But not sure if that would all add up to making the puffing go away. Does seem like something out of the 'bandaid fix' box though.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2018)

Mrpelletburner said:


> I am assuming the 2 holes are 3/8”?
> 
> What I am trying to figure out is how is that different then just opening the draft blower flap wider, perhaps the flap limits the rush of primary air?


You are right with your first thought, its not different. 
This will make no difference...zero. They need to split up the primary and secondary air source so they can control them separately.


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## Medic21 (Nov 26, 2018)

maple1 said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> Not sure what it would do differently exactly, than the fan shutting off & the chimney still drawing through the fan opening. Well, it would promote a more active fire in the box when the fan is off. And it would make less air go in the firebox and a less active fire when the fan is running. But not sure if that would all add up to making the puffing go away. Does seem like something out of the 'bandaid fix' box though.



If I open the flap all the way without the blower running I still don’t get enough air for a clean burn and I still get back puffing occasionally.  That is an unrestricted 3 1/4 inch opening. With the slide close down in order for this to burn without burning away I will have less hair with the blower off than with the slide all the way open.  Combine that with air following the path of least resistance and now there will be no airflow into the furnace with the fan running.


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## Medic21 (Nov 26, 2018)

Call me crazy.  Why can’t I wire in a reostat and relay.  Slow the draft motor down to get enough air to sustain a burn in between calls for heat and when the thermostat calls for heat feed power to the fan as intended and let the thing run wide open???

Does this sound feasible??????


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Call me crazy.


Crazy.

That still doesn't address the issue of too much primary and not enough secondary air...maybe if you tried this idea and then blocked some of the primary holes off too...


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## Medic21 (Nov 26, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Crazy.
> 
> That still doesn't address the issue of too much primary and not enough secondary air...maybe if you tried this idea and then blocked some of the primary holes off too...



The burnnof this thing is on the front and not top.   That I believe is part of the issue.  It’s not placing the oxygen into the superheated gases below the baffle.  The air is in front of it.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2018)

Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at...too much air down low in the front (feeds the primary fire) then that makes the wood burn and offgas harder/faster than the secondary system has enough air to deal with it...eventually the secondary burn is overwhelmed (and maybe goes out)...at some point the fuel/air ratio comes back in line and WOOF!


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## KC Matt (Nov 26, 2018)

Year two and I'm impressed with your patience.  Equally disgusted with the Fire Chief.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 26, 2018)

KC Matt said:


> Year two and I'm impressed with your patience.  Equally disgusted with the Fire Chief.


Hmm...didn't you have a Tundra? Maybe my CRS is acting up again...


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## Apollo kid (Dec 4, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Not wanting to start another thread on this furnace.  We’ve beat the horse, killed it, tenderized it, dug it up, and beat it again.
> 
> I’ve been in contact with HY-C to get a fix or replacement.   I got a response about how engineering has been working on it.  I received an updated part.  This is their fix to the puffing.  Put two holes past the blower.  I’m a little leery of running a stove that has a direct air opening with no way to close it off.  Emailed back I’d like a call and Waiting to see if any testing has been done.  In the meantime I bought a used hitzer coal/wood furnace for my shop I may just throw in the basement.
> 
> View attachment 234163


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## Apollo kid (Dec 4, 2018)

I've been in the same boat as you and Mr. Pelletburner, basically I've been running mine the same way you have, I wondered if you tried that blower


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## Medic21 (Dec 4, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> I've been in the same boat as you and Mr. Pelletburner, basically I've been running mine the same way you have, I wondered if you tried that blower



Yes I have.  I started a thread for it.  Seems to be better.


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## Mrpelletburner (Dec 4, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Yes I have.  I started a thread for it.  Seems to be better.



I contacted HY-C to see if they would ship the “updated draft blower” so I could also test.

I am assuming they drilled two 3/8” holes? Maybe a bit larger?


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## Apollo kid (Dec 4, 2018)

Medic21 said:


> Yes I have.  I started a thread for it.  Seems to be better.


Did it cut down your start up time, or do you still have to babysit it till it has a good burn going, also have you been dealing with Nathan Folkemer to receive that part? I hate being a bother, I'm on my second year also, believe me I know what you guys have been dealing with.


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## Medic21 (Dec 4, 2018)

Apollo kid said:


> Did it cut down your start up time, or do you still have to babysit it till it has a good burn going, also have you been dealing with Nathan Folkemer to receive that part? I hate being a bother, I'm on my second year also, believe me I know what you guys have been dealing with.



My start up time is about 30 min from cold.  Paper and kindling add two small spilts then two or three at a time once the previous ones are burning good.  I do this till it’s full and flue tempsnon an internal probe are 550-650 and then shut it up.  

Reloading is a layer at a time on the coal bed.  I’ve been gettin 6-8 hours out of a load after the initial.  The initial is 2-4 hours depending on temp outside.  I work today a 24hr shift and tomorrow will start a continuous burn since it is working safe enough for the wife to load it now.


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## Medic21 (Dec 9, 2018)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fire-chief-fc1000-shelter-sf1000-update.172034/#post-2310224


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Hmm...didn't you have a Tundra? Maybe my CRS is acting up again...



Haven't been on in a while but yeah I have a Tundra.  Compared to this thing the Tundra is an engineering masterpiece.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

KC Matt said:


> Haven't been on in a while but yeah I have a Tundra.  Compared to this thing the Tundra is an engineering masterpiece.


Tundra got warrantied and then you bought the FC?


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Tundra got warrantied and then you bought the FC?



Hell no!  My Tundra has been flawless and with the updated control system I built this fall it's everything I could ask for.  I've been following these threads about the Firechief and can't believe this POS is being sold to the unsuspecting public.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 2, 2019)

Ah, ok I misunderstood what you were saying when you said you were "equally disgusted" with FC...thought you had one


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

I'm so grateful I read a couple forums prior to purchasing my furnace.  The Tundra did have shortcomings from the factory but I knew that going in and I built a system that makes it work incredibly well. I don't know how these guys are able to keep their cool dealing with these Firechief death traps.


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 2, 2019)

KC Matt said:


> I'm so grateful I read a couple forums prior to purchasing my furnace.  The Tundra did have shortcomings from the factory but I knew that going in and I built a system that makes it work incredibly well. I don't know how these guys are able to keep their cool dealing with these Firechief death traps.



So you aren’t in the market for a used FC? Just asking [emoji41]


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## KC Matt (Jan 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Ah, ok I misunderstood what you were saying when you said you were "equally disgusted" with FC...thought you had one





Mrpelletburner said:


> So you aren’t in the market for a used FC? Just asking [emoji41]



LOL!  You're a better man than I.  

The only suitable use for that POS is at the scrap yard.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2019)

Just in case you guys running these Hy-C things want to upgrade for cheap.


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 6, 2019)

Had a 2hr call with HY-C on Friday. Going on almost a year and they are still working with me, trying to get things right. Their prior stove line had a great reputation, seems like they trying to go the distance to get back to that point.


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## Mojappa (Jan 6, 2019)

One would think the first thing they’d suggest would be a barometric damper to get your draft in check.....lol


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## Mrpelletburner (Jan 6, 2019)

Mojappa said:


> One would think the first thing they’d suggest would be a barometric damper to get your draft in check.....lol



They’re VERY adamant that the stove should not have a barometric damper connected. The design of the stove should prevent a high draft. I don’t know enough of the design to argue the point. Therefore the only thing I can do is work with them, provide data, and hope they can get the stove to deliver the advertised burn times.


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## Mojappa (Jan 6, 2019)

Well, good luck to ya.


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## laynes69 (Jan 6, 2019)

I don't see how they can say that. According to the EPA testing, if the unit was tested at .06" of water column and the furnace is installed with a chimney producing .10"+ of water column, how can they claim it's made to run without a barometric damper? One would believe the furnace would need to run within specs of the emissions testing? It makes zero sense.


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## Mojappa (Jan 6, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> I don't see how they can say that. According to the EPA testing, if the unit was tested at .06" of water column and the furnace is installed with a chimney producing .10"+ of water column, how can they claim it's made to run without a barometric damper? One would believe the furnace would need to run within specs of the emissions testing? It makes zero sense.


Maybe they secretly installed a baro inside the stove and just don’t wanna tell anybody? Hahaha. It really is mind blowing seeing the approach they’re taking.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> I don't see how they can say that. According to the EPA testing, if the unit was tested at .06" of water column and the furnace is installed with a chimney producing .10"+ of water column, how can they claim it's made to run without a barometric damper? One would believe the furnace would need to run within specs of the emissions testing? It makes zero sense.




I agree, Lamppa can't change anything after passing their phase 2 testing.  They can't even sell the water coil with them anymore because it was not in place when they were certified.

Along those same lines, I also don't understand how these cat stoves can become certified either.  It's well known the cat starts to degrade immediately and over time it is shot and needs to be replaced.  So, assuming they were tested with a brand new cat, this means at what point does it fall out of compliance?  Then they have the bypass, which the end user can use to bypass the cat at any point.  Without a  cat, these things are not much more than a barrel stove.  

Wood furnaces are testing at three distinct burn levels and are done to simulate all conditions in which the end user will use them.  This includes forcing the furnace to burn at a very low heat output level.  Once compliance has been achieved then they are not allowed to change anything; meanwhile these cat stoves have a simple lever they can pull to bypass the cat and the cat is also in the constant state of degradation.  By design they are in a constant state of change!  

Personally, I know I'm glad I don't own a cat equipped wood burning anything.  With my personality, wanting to achieve/maintain maximum efficiency, I could see myself replacing the cat every year or at any initial sign of degradation....whatever interval that would be.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 6, 2019)

laynes69 said:


> I don't see how they can say that. According to the EPA testing, if the unit was tested at .06" of water column and the furnace is installed with a chimney producing .10"+ of water column, how can they claim it's made to run without a barometric damper? One would believe the furnace would need to run within specs of the emissions testing? It makes zero sense.


Can't agree enough! They have figured out how to get these things to pass the EPA test...but that is not how they actually get run in the real world...and no where near the burn times they claim! (read the EPA test report) And it completely blows my mind that that they got the FC1000 to pass at all! The good thing is that *if* they are still in the wood furnace game in 2020, they will either have to get their crap together, or be gone!


Mrpelletburner said:


> They’re VERY adamant that the stove should not have a barometric damper connected. The design of the stove should prevent a high draft.


See, this is why I think that the FC "engineers" are a bunch of college grad newbs (or maybe they flunked out of college ) you have to control your draft!! It is the engine that drives the stove!! Not the other way around!!
If controlling the chimney draft with the furnace was possible (or a good idea) wouldn't a computer controlled Kuuma do that?! 
Or one of the many European lambda units...none of them control the chimney draft via the furnace (boiler) either!
Heck, Kuuma even supply's the baro with the furnace.

I'm starting to build a callous on my forehead from reading these FC guys responses/ideas 
Like Laynes said, makes ZERO sense!




Mrpelletburner said:


> the only thing I can do is work with them, provide data


You need to be on their payroll...you are doing R n D for them...​


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