# Ocean drift wood ok?



## allhandsworking (Oct 4, 2011)

Sorry if this is repetitive,  is ocean drift wood ok to burn in a non cat EPA stove?  Did a search did not get any results!  Thanks


----------



## basswidow (Oct 4, 2011)

I remember someone saying the salt might cause some issues - but I don't see how if you're burning it.  

I bet you could find a bunch along most any strech of beach.   

Here in NJ,  I have a few spots I check along the creeks near bridges.  We continue to have alot of flooding and trees wash down and pile up at bridges (easy truck access).  Can't beat it!


----------



## Jags (Oct 4, 2011)

In years past, we had a poster from the west coast of Canada that was burning only driftwood.  The concern WAS salt, but said he had to do what he had to do.  Dunno what the long term effects are, but I sure as heck would make sure that it was properly dried (of course its already seasoned  %-P ).


----------



## jimbom (Oct 4, 2011)

Salt is corrosive to all materials used in stoves and chimneys.  Driftwood is high in salt.  Salt air near oceans is a major cause of corrosion of infrastructure.  Salt water in concrete mix is strictly controlled due to corrosion of the reinforcing steel.  Deicing of highways with salt has rusted out millions of cars and trucks.  Please check with the manufacturer of your stove before using driftwood.


----------



## My Oslo heats my home (Oct 4, 2011)

JimboM said:
			
		

> Salt is corrosive to all materials used in stoves and chimneys.  Driftwood is high in salt.  Salt air near oceans is a major cause of corrosion of infrastructure.  Salt water in concrete mix is strictly controlled due to corrosion of the reinforcing steel.  Deicing of highways with salt has rusted out millions of cars and trucks.  Please check with the manufacturer of your stove before using driftwood.



I would think this question would have to be handled by a phone call to the stove manufacturer. I just took a quick check through my manual and saw nothing with regards to ocean driftwood in it. It is a good question and a potential warranty issue could arise. 
If the results are corrosive, I'd be curious what a stove looks like after burning it.


----------



## kettensÃ¤ge (Oct 4, 2011)

We used to use an ash shovel full of rock salt on a bed of hot coals to help remove creosote from the stovepipe/chimney on the old Fisher when I was growing up. 

Never created any issues, or any that were worse than burning unseasoned oak in an airtight stove.

YMMV


----------



## billb3 (Oct 4, 2011)

Burning chlorides can create toxic fumes, furan and dioxin.

Salt is sodium chloride.
PVC is polyvinyl chloride.


Please don't burn salt nor plastics. Anywhere.


----------



## kettensÃ¤ge (Oct 4, 2011)

As individual elements, yes sodium or chlorine gas is highly poisonous, burned or not, combine them and you can sprinkle it on your supper.
What happens when ocean water comes in contact with lava flows?


----------



## Freeheat (Oct 4, 2011)

Maybe The salt will work like curing meat and remove the moisture in less time !!  Think about this Oak  cut and ready in 2 months.


----------



## maple1 (Oct 4, 2011)

I can't say whether it is a 'bad' or 'good' thing to do, or a 'wrong' or 'right' thing.

But I would do it.


----------



## btuser (Oct 4, 2011)

My manual says driftwood is a no-no.  I'm usually not a purist when it comes to buring cellulose but this seems to make a lot of sense.  Salt mixed with steam is pretty nasty stuff and could even do a number on a 316ti liner.  I'd have to temper my opinion with the quanity and frequency of burning to be done but lots of wood may indeed be a problem.


----------



## allhandsworking (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks for the feed back!  It is not something that I must do so I may refrain!


----------



## begreen (Oct 4, 2011)

I would avoid it unless it's the only wood available. It is corrosive.


----------



## WoodPorn (Oct 4, 2011)

kettensÃ¤ge said:
			
		

> As individual elements, yes sodium or chlorine gas is highly poisonous, burned or not, combine them and you can sprinkle it on your supper.
> What happens when ocean water comes in contact with lava flows?



I believe they call that Sulfuric Acid...


----------



## Bub381 (Oct 5, 2011)

take some seawater and boil it down,check the salt content when the dish is dry.UNBELIEVABLE huh?I live and have worked on the ocean my whole life.Wouldn't think of it.I know the old fellas even burned ropes (Used for lobstering) in their stoves but it's funny how they always rust the bottoms out.Off season you can bet you wont get all the salt out of that stove no matter what you do.Sea salt doesn't look like the salt you buy,it's like dust.Lay some of that off season dampness in there with it.YIKES!! We'd sure be interested in what ya find in 3 yrs but you wouldn't like the replacement costs.It will even destroy stainless over time.


----------



## krex1010 (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the owners manual on my stove specifically said not to burn driftwood.


----------



## Frostbit (Oct 5, 2011)

I don't think any stove manufacturer wants you to burn it. 


In my case, no other choice. So that is what it gets. Heating fuel is $5.83 a gallon, what's a guy gonna do otherwise?


----------



## CTYank (Oct 5, 2011)

WoodPorn said:
			
		

> kettensÃ¤ge said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope. No sulfate there.


----------



## woodchip (Oct 5, 2011)

I used to burn driftwood on my open fire, I still pick bits up out of habit when it's around but it goes in the firepit now. 

Still waiting for the perfect shape for a sculpture, thats the best thing driftwood is good for  ;-)


----------



## efoyt (Oct 5, 2011)

So drift would from lakes and streams would be ok?  I used to love using it when i was a kid camping.  No smoke just a great blue flame.


----------



## Bub381 (Oct 5, 2011)

I would think that would be ok but i don't know.Manuals say NO driftwood.


----------



## Dune (Oct 5, 2011)

Burning fresh water driftwood is fine.

Burning salt water driftwood will absolutely ruin a stove and any type of stovepipe in short order.


----------



## WoodPorn (Oct 5, 2011)

CTYank said:
			
		

> WoodPorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are 100% correct.
I should have researched it first ...It is actually Hydrochloric acid!


"Laze plumes are very acidic
Extreme heat from lava entering the sea rapidly boils and vaporizes seawater, leading to a series of chemical reactions. The boiling and reactions produce a large white plume, locally known as lava haze or laze, which contains a mixture of hydrochloric acid (HCl) and concentrated seawater. This is a short-lived local phenomenon that only affects people or vegetation directly under the plume. 

The hydrochloric acid (HCl) comes from the breakdown of seawater-derived chlorides during sudden boiling. Because the lava is largely degassed by the time it reaches the sea, any HCL coming from it is insignificant by comparison. Analyzed samples of the plume show that is is a brine with a salinity of about 2.3 times that of seawater and a pH of 1.5-2.0."


----------



## hemlock (Oct 5, 2011)

From the Pacific Energy Super 27 manual - 

_DO NOT BURN :
-Salt water wood * -Treated wood
-Wet or green wood -Coal/charcoal
-Garbage/Plastic * -Solvents
* These materials contain chlorides which will rapidly
destroy metal surfaces and void warranty._


----------



## ruserious2008 (Oct 7, 2011)

Interesting question- my first thought was "what happens to salt chemically in a wood stove?"  Does it just go up the stack as sodium chloride? 
Any chemists on the forums? I did find this at Ask.com  "Sodium imparts a bright orange flame when lit. However, little can be done to the chemical structure of NaCl as it has a high melting point of 800C or ~1400F."
Not one to believe something just because its on the internet but by that standard I wonder if it would just wind up in your ashes unless you have a major overfire and then I think you've got bigger problems than giving your stack high blood pressure 
I also wonder how much salt is really in the wood? Again need a chemist but wondering if due to molecule size or something else is it possible the wood can absorb the H2O in sea water but not the salt? Does it give off bright orange flames that you don't see with non driftwoods? 
And probably makes sense to follow your manual but then again you'll see some tell you not to burn pine and that's a whole other thread
Anyway, just thinking out loud


----------



## Dune (Oct 7, 2011)

ruserious2008 said:
			
		

> Interesting question- my first thought was "what happens to salt chemically in a wood stove?"  Does it just go up the stack as sodium chloride?
> Any chemists on the forums? I did find this at Ask.com  "Sodium imparts a bright orange flame when lit. However, little can be done to the chemical structure of NaCl as it has a high melting point of 800C or ~1400F."
> Not one to believe something just because its on the internet but by that standard I wonder if it would just wind up in your ashes unless you have a major overfire and then I think you've got bigger problems than giving your stack high blood pressure
> I also wonder how much salt is really in the wood? Again need a chemist but wondering if due to molecule size or something else is it possible the wood can absorb the H2O in sea water but not the salt? Does it give off bright orange flames that you don't see with non driftwoods?
> ...



If you would like, I will save some white oak pilings that have soaked for 75 years.
You can burn them in your stove and see if the "myths" are true.

Interesting that you don't think any part of your wood fire reaches 1400 degrees.


----------



## ruserious2008 (Oct 9, 2011)

Dune said 
"Interesting that you donâ€™t think any part of your wood fire reaches 1400 degrees. "
Good point Dune. Guess I was just thinking stack temps. But I guess my conjecture still applies - what happens to the sodium chloride when it gets exposed to 1400+f if it does in a wood fire? 
With my limited chemical background I know from work experience that a nasty chemical like Silane  , Sih4, burns on contact with air (due to the O2 in our air) but under controlled conditions it deposits Si (Silicon) on wafers as part of the process of making computer chips and the by product is 4 molecules of Hydrogen which are no where near as nasty as the SiH4 it started out as so my point was/is don't assume that salt just goes up the stack as salt - maybe it does but maybe it  doesn't go up the stack at all or maybe it goes up as something else ( maybe less or maybe more nasty) or maybe my limited knowledge is getting me in trouble Love to think out loud and challenge conventional wisdom and learn so someone else chime in Friendly conversation is all I'm trying for  Intrigued now about what happens to salt at what temps????


----------



## snowleopard (Oct 9, 2011)

double-post. <snip>


----------



## snowleopard (Oct 9, 2011)

Frostbit said:
			
		

> In my case, no other choice. So that is what it gets. Heating fuel is $5.83 a gallon, what's a guy gonna do otherwise?



Is is a little tough heating with firewood where there aren't any trees.  

As far north as you are, you probably can't get any freshwater driftwood, and if ocean wood is all you've got, and you want to burn it, then one option would be to go with barrel stoves with sand in the bottom and cheap stovepipe, and replace as needed.  

Other options include exploring locally available alternative energy options.  Wind generators coupled with electric baseboard are worth considering, especially with the tax credits available at this time.  

Another option is looking at improving the energy efficiency of your shelter.    I'm sure you've heard the quote (I paraphrase): "In the old days, we built our houses underground and buried our dead on the tundra.  Now we bury our dead in the ground and build our houses on the tundra, and we haven't been warm since."   Are you in one of the HUD-housing structures?  Sun orientation, insolation and passive heat storage, insulation, ventilation--all of these things are easier for most people to do something about than are shipping costs and oil prices.  

If oil prices continue to rise, shipping may become not only more expensive but less frequent as well.  That would seem to me to be the course of wisdom, focusing on becoming energy independent in a locally-appropriate way if you're there for the long haul.  Burn less oil, and you have effectively dropped the price of oil.

We each balance the pros with the cons in making a decision about where to live; if the quality of life/employment opportunities/family connections counterbalance the realities of high shipping costs where you live, then you work with what you've got.  If they don't, you move--preferably to someplace with trees if you want to heat with wood.
[/quote]


----------



## Dune (Oct 9, 2011)

ruserious2008 said:
			
		

> Dune said
> "Interesting that you donâ€™t think any part of your wood fire reaches 1400 degrees. "
> Good point Dune. Guess I was just thinking stack temps. But I guess my conjecture still applies - what happens to the sodium chloride when it gets exposed to 1400+f if it does in a wood fire?
> With my limited chemical background I know from work experience that a nasty chemical like Silane  , Sih4, burns on contact with air (due to the O2 in our air) but under controlled conditions it deposits Si (Silicon) on wafers as part of the process of making computer chips and the by product is 4 molecules of Hydrogen which are no where near as nasty as the SiH4 it started out as so my point was/is don't assume that salt just goes up the stack as salt - maybe it does but maybe it  doesn't go up the stack at all or maybe it goes up as something else ( maybe less or maybe more nasty) or maybe my limited knowledge is getting me in trouble Love to think out loud and challenge conventional wisdom and learn so someone else chime in Friendly conversation is all I'm trying for  Intrigued now about what happens to salt at what temps????



Post#22 (above) does a good job with the chemistry.

You will note of course, that the intense heat in a firebox  accelerates any reaction between the metals present and the acid produced by the salts in the wood.

If I remember correctly, every rise in temp of 50C doubles the rate at wich reactions occur.


----------



## blacktail (Oct 9, 2011)

I've always heard not to burn it and heard of people who live on the beach, or have beach cabins, rusting out stove pipes from burning drift wood. When I bought my insert the guy at the store said there's one thing they always tell people NOT to burn, and that's driftwood.


----------



## LIBurn1784 (Oct 9, 2011)

Not sure if it was mentioned previously in the thread, as I only skimmed it.  But the particular stove pipe i'm considering says burning driftwood will void the lifetime warranty.  So I'd assume it has some type of damaging effects.


----------



## DanCorcoran (Oct 9, 2011)

I would think that adding ground pepper to saltwater driftwood would give you perfectly seasoned firewood...


----------



## Bub381 (Oct 9, 2011)

Now there's a mind at work. ;-)


----------



## jimbom (Oct 10, 2011)

DanCorcoran said:
			
		

> I would think that adding ground pepper to saltwater driftwood would give you perfectly seasoned firewood...



 :lol: Well done.


----------



## ruserious2008 (Oct 16, 2011)

Well being the curious type I posted a question about this on a chemical forum. As many varied answers there as here but I think I got this out of it:
The salt, NaCl, does not change in the fire and deposits as is in the ashes. However, magnesium and calcium in the sea salt does create HCL though not sure in what quantities. That was my original hangup with my limited chemistry background- didn't see how we would wind up with HCL from salt.  Having worked with HCL in the semiconductor industry I can tell you that you don't want to be breathing that stuff in any amounts so that alone now puts me solidly into the "don't do it category" for burning saltwater driftwood . It was used to etch glass -SiO2- off of wafers and anything else it deposited onto such as the quartz tubes used to contain the reaction that created the glass (used a really cool and nasty gas called Silane, SiH4, that bursts into flames on contact with O2. So really easy to see a leaking pipe of the stuff if it doesn't explode, it'll be on fire But I digress....
Other interesting side discussion was about the powder they sell to put on your fire to get rid of creosote where it was said that creates HCL and that's probably how it "supposed" to work. 
Anyway here's a link to the thread for those interested
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=51801.0


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Oct 16, 2011)

We do have at least one forum member who lives, I think, near or in Nome and he does burn driftwood but that is about all he has. 

If it were me, I would not burn it unless there was no alternative. One can see many examples of what salt can do to things.


----------



## Sooz (Nov 28, 2011)

Greetings from a (reformed) drift wood burner... I posed a similar question awhile back when we were deciding what wood stove to purchase given that we live on the NW coast of Alaska where the only trees are found washed up on shore. Try searching for the topic, "Western Alaskan seeking stove advice for burning driftwood," (12-03-2009), followed by "Update from NW Alaska driftwood-burning woman," (9-30-2009). Followed by our experiences, including photos, I'll post here:

We have a Pacific Energy Alderlea T-5, and burn driftwood well-washed by summer rains, along with wood pallets and lumber scraps. We have also been able to mix in a small amount of standing dead spruce gathered at the end of a seasonal 70 mile road. We only use the stove as a supplement to two monitor oil stoves, and only burn several cords a winter. In the past two winters we figure we have burned a total of 3 cords of dry, split driftwood and are now seeing serious corrosion on the bottom of the baffling system. It has corroded straight through in a few small places, but is still functioning as designed. Nonetheless, this is why we purchased the PE stove - so that we can replace the baffling system when the need is apparent. 

Given the corrosion we have seen after a relatively small amount of driftwood burned, I think we will likely limit ourselves to pallets and lumber craps after this winter. Maybe it will be cause for a few long-distance snowmachine (called snowmobiles everywhere but Alaska) trip to haul home several loads of that standing dry spruce. 

I do have a number of Native friends who have long burned driftwood in pre-EPA stoves who don't see what the fuss is all about. 

I hope this isn't too discouraging. I know we'll miss harvesting wood by driving the long sand beaches listening to the surf and gulls, and maybe we'll still mix a bit in, but we'll be very careful in our selection and will continue to watch the stove carefully.

Good luck - and my continued thanks to everyone on this website for their thoughts, suggestions - and humor!


----------



## Dune (Nov 28, 2011)

Hi Sue, thanks for the input. Do you have an abundance of driftwood available?
If so, if may be worth considering a masonry heater such as a russian or finnish fireplace.


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Nov 29, 2011)

Sue, we saw some pictures that showed lots of wood piled up after some of those high winds. I'll bet that made lots of folks very happy. And for what it is worth, Alaska is not the only place that has snowmachines! Most people in northern MI also drive snowmachines. Others drive snowmobiles. 

Good luck to you for keeping warm this winter. You live in a very cold place indeed. Well, you do have the Iditarod for excitement. lol


----------



## firefighterjake (Nov 29, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Sue, we saw some pictures that showed lots of wood piled up after some of those high winds. I'll bet that made lots of folks very happy. And for what it is worth, Alaska is not the only place that has snowmachines! Most people in northern MI also drive snowmachines. Others drive snowmobiles.
> 
> Good luck to you for keeping warm this winter. You live in a very cold place indeed. Well, you do have the Iditarod for excitement. lol



Hehheh . . . I was wondering what the heck my sister was talking about when she moved to Alaska and started talking about snowmachines . . . never heard it called that . . . around here its sledding or snowmobiling.


----------



## Backwoods Savage (Nov 29, 2011)

Funny Jake but I almost mentioned you in that last post that you would not know what a snowmachine was! Probably plenty of folks think it is a machine for making snow! lol


----------

