# Anyone with a Piazzetta Sabrina ?



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 29, 2015)

As a new member of the forum, and the owner of a recently purchased Piazzetta Sabrina pellet stove, I was wondering if there might be another member here who's experiencing the same problems with their stove as I am.  

Basically, in just a few months, I'm on my second stove, since the first one was replaced under warranty. 

The problem that I continue to experience, is the stove's inability to run for any amount of time before it develops a "clinker" and subsequently overloads. This seems to occur no matter what type of pellet I use.

My experience with the stove(s) reached a point where things became so bad, that it warranted the distributor  to visit my home and inspect the it on scene. 

They in turn decided to re-vent the stove differently and change the parameters. However, this yielded little if any improvement. As a result, I was told that the only way I could continue with this stove, was to shut it down every 12 hours and clean the burn pot. Needless to say, this was a sub-optimal conclusion for me.  

What's most interesting about the situation, is that I also purchased a Piazzetts Monia stove at the same time, which has performed flawlessly from day one.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> As a new member of the forum, and the owner of a recently purchased Piazzetta Sabrina pellet stove, I was wondering if there might be another member here who's experiencing the same problems with their stove as I am.
> 
> Basically, in just a few months, I'm on my second stove, since the first one was replaced under warranty.
> 
> ...


First, welcome to the forum. Second, the Sabrina and Monia are closely related cousins so that it's extremely odd that one should work well and the other be problematic. Third, the manual recommends shutting down the stove once a day for a grate scrape. Having to scrape every 12 hrs seems extreme to me, indicates a poor burn. Clinkers are typically related to the pellets. Minerals in the pellets if fired at a certain temp, about 2000F, can form a clinker. Fourth, there are lots of threads on Piazzettas, both the Monia and Sabrina, if you do a search.

I've only once had a situation where the pot overloaded, and that was after burning 7 days straight, with almost 20 bags thru the stove, with no scraping whatsoever.

On your problem, it would help to know what brand of pellet you burn and a pic of your clinker and overflowed pot would help, and a description of your vent. How many tons have you burned, has the vent been cleaned, what's your normal cleaning routine, that sort of thing. Clearly, the installer saw something about your vent that they were concerned about. What was it?

Also, what did they change about the parameters? Did they use a manometer to adjust the combustion? What's the flame look like?

I have to agree that having to shut the stove every 12 hrs seems like a non-solution.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> First, welcome to the forum. Second, the Sabrina and Monia are closely related cousins so that it's extremely odd that one should work well and the other be problematic. Third, the manual recommends shutting down the stove once a day for a grate scrape. Having to scrape every 12 hrs seems extreme to me, indicates a poor burn. Clinkers are typically related to the pellets. Minerals in the pellets if fired at a certain temp, about 2000F, can form a clinker. Fourth, there are lots of threads on Piazzettas, both the Monia and Sabrina, if you do a search.
> 
> I've only once had a situation where the pot overloaded, and that was after burning 7 days straight, with almost 20 bags thru the stove, with no scraping whatsoever.
> 
> ...



Hi chken-

Thanks for your quick reply.

I did do a search initially, however, after reading through several posts, I felt that I wasn't finding the answers I was looking for.

In any case, to answer your questions, the latest stove has been in service since the end of October/bringing of November of 2014. And, along the way, I've tried numerous brands of pellets, both hard wood, soft wood and mixed  - hoping to find a better result.

At the distributor's request, I'm currently using Okanagan Premium (red) soft wood pellets. 

As far as the parameters are concerned, my understanding is that they increased the combustion fan speed slightly via the control panel. 

With regard to venting, the initial configuration involved a simple straight-out design.  However, they have since reconfigured it by adding about 6 feet of vertical pipe, which terminates into a sharp right angle. I guess the goal was to create a better draft.

Concerning the flame, frankly it's never able to maintain the sharp, torch like characteristics of the Monia. Rather, it seems to fluctuate between that and what has been described as a lazy flame. When the stove is left to run more than 24 hours, soot overtakes the glass and the burn pot becomes congested, which leads to overflow  

I would estimate that I've burned close to 2 tons of pellets since the start of the season, with a full cleaning conducted twice. 

In the final analysis, the distributor said, that given the size and lay-out of my home (it's a two-story open timber frame with a high peak that's approximately 5000 square feet), the stove is working beyond its recommended capacity.  And, therefore, it needs to be shut down every 12 to 15 hours and have the burn pot cleaned out. Again, this seems odd to me, since Monia is located only about 30 feet away, and runs flawlessly - albeit in a much smaller area with a much lower ceiling.

As I previously mentioned, the first stove was replaced under warranty, because everyone involved (i.e. both the seller and distributor), war sunder the impression that it was defective. However, this stove seems to be exhibiting the same poor performance. 

In all fairness to the distributor, they've offered to take back the stove and issue me a full refund. However, I'm not one to give up so quickly. One, because to truly love the look of the Sabrina, and secondly, I don't' want to end up with mismatched brands  

So, as I see it, this gives me two options, find a solution to make this stove work properly, or live with the fact that I have to tend to it on a continuous basis. 

At this point, it's kinda like having a Ferrari with Weber carbs again.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

This is how the stove burns an hour after start-up.
In my opinion, it never has the sharp, defined flame of the Monia. In fact, it looks more like a campfire 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-...r_detailpage&x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=URc4gQgGhIg


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Well I don't have one however that sure looks like a lazy burn to me (lack of combustion air through the pellet pile in the burn pot or too much fuel for the available combustion air).

Tell us about all stoves (or air movers in the house, this includes fireplaces, furnaces, boilers, and exhaust fans, there are other things as well but they can wait) installed in the house especially as to venting, combustion air source, location (floor differences in particular), and the prevailing wind in relation to the stove vent terminations.


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## millerized (Jan 30, 2015)

Getting enough outside air?
Does it work any better with the other stove on or off?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

Hi Smokey -

Other than the smaller Piazzetta stove and an oil burning furnace in the basement (which, I only use for heating hot water),  I have no other heat sources in the house. There's is a fireplace in an adjacent room that is only used to vent the other pellet stove. 

As far as venting for the stove question is concerned, it vents directly through the back wall  and then up approximately 6 feet to a 90 degree angle and out. It also has a "fresh-air" kit installed. 

As I mentioned previously, it was first vented directly through the back wall and out straight - about 3 feet or so from the house. Additional venting was added in hopes of creating more draft. But, that didn't seem to change much. 

The stove sits in the corner of a sizable room (about 800 square) that's part of an open structure, which has a high peak (probably 25 feet or more) that also ties in with the second story. 

As far as prevailing wind and stove vent terminators are concerned, you're getting a bit out of my depth, however, I live in a heavily forested area that is typically shielded from wind.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

The vent termination is the cap on the end of the venting, if your prevailing wind is out of the west and the vent termination is on the west side of the house you are venting into the wind which is frowned upon in the venting world as the wind can slow down the air flow through the stoves vent system.  There are vent caps that operate on the venturi effect caused when the wind hits the end of the vent, this reduces the effects of the wind and allows the vent system to breathe.

Do both stoves have a fresh air kit installed?

Is that pellet stove flue in the fireplace chimney properly blocked off (sealed and insulated) to stop the natural tendency of a draft being setup in it allowing the room the stove is in to become slightly depressurized.

Is the furnace room connected to the rest of the house through wall or ceiling penetrations or doors and so forth.

I think you need to get someone over there with a pressure differential gauge and see what the drafts actually are in the stove and the house and also to check gaskets and seams on the stoves for possible air leaks.  This includes making certain  that the OAK line is sealed to the air intake on the stoves.

Yes I am on a air flow correcting mission.

Why don't you see if https://www.hearth.com/talk/members/smwilliamson.13019/ will answer a private message.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Hi chken-
> 
> Thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> ...


Okay some thoughts and questions:
• what's your cleaning process? Do you clean the vent every ton? Do you remove the back plate to clean weekly?

• Did the stove run well initially after install or has it always been like this?

• The flame appears too rich, too many pellets for the amount of air leads to black whisps and sooty glass and sidewalls. I'm guessing the video shows P4 or P5?

• Your home size is not a problem. My little Sabrina works great in a similar sized timber frame. My ceiling is 26 ft up. I shut my stove down once a week.

As Smokey asked, did the installer use a manometer or magnahelic to dial in the stove? When he adjusted the combustion fan, did he attach anything to the back right of the stove?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Are your pellets short? I mean are they small like the nubbins of a pencil eraser? Or are they long like an inch in length?

The reason I ask is that pellets vary quite widely, enough so that you really do need to recalibrate for different types. My Fireside Ultras, are very short and thus fall into the pot very fast and can burn with a lazy flame as in your video. My DF Blazers are more variable with lengths up to an inch and thus drop into the pot very slowly and burn with a nice and tight flame. Since I'm burning DF Blazers now, my stove is set, but if I switched to the FSUs, I'd have to adjust the combustion fan to get a proper burn.

Without a manometer or magnahelic, when the pellets drop into the grate, little bits of ash should fly out, a shower of sparks. If you look into the grate, the pellets should just move around a little but not fly out. That should give you a nice tight flame.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

To answer your questions, alI I can say, is that the folks from stove shop came out to my home on four separate occasions to try to correct the problem. When all else failed, they replaced the stove.

At one point, they gave up, and called in the people at Piazzetta to come out.  

Piazzetta was at my home 2 weeks ago, wherein they fully assessed the situation, to include the stove's location, all venting, type of pellets being used  ect.. 

In the end, they concluded that I had to switch to a particular soft wood pellet, and live with the fact that I needed to tend to the burn pot every 12 hours or so. 

As I mentioned before, they've offer to remove the stove and refund my money. But, obviously there's a part of me that still wants to try and remedy the situation.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

If you're ambitious, get yourself a manometer or magnahelic and you can adjust your pressure differential to manufacturer's spec. Then continue to adjust visually.

Here's the manual, with all the info:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogznqraei...023_E02_USA [MONIA_SABRINA].2012_max.pdf?dl=0

You need parameter code "E9" to get into your settings. Many of us have done it, it won't harm anything. You can always reset to factory spec.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> To answer your questions, alI I can say, is that the folks from stove shop came out to my home on four separate occasions to try to correct the problem. When all else failed, they replaced the stove.
> 
> At one point, they gave up, and called in the people at Piazzetta to come out.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming the Piazzetta people were the distributor from NH?

To be honest, once your stove is dialed in, most pellets should burn just fine.

Just to let you know, my stove's adjustments are quite far from the original factory settings, so there is quite a lot of potential variation in setup. For example:

P1 factory combustion fan speed = 1850, mine = 2100
P2 factory = 1950, mine = 2250
P3 factory = 2150, mine = 2350
P4 factory = 2410, mine = 2450
P5 factory = na, mine = 2550


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Okay some thoughts and questions:
> • what's your cleaning process? Do you clean the vent every ton? Do you remove the back plate to clean weekly?
> 
> • Did the stove run well initially after install or has it always been like this?
> ...




Both stoves ran well in the beginning and'/or after a thorough cleaning. 

The last cleaning occurred just 2 weeks ago when Piazzetta was at my home. 

As far as power settings are concerned, I was instructed by Piazzetta to run the stove on the highest power setting at all times (P5), and control it by temperature setting. 

 I was told this would ensure that the stove went through its grate cleaning process every 90 minutes or so.  

As far as manometer or a magnahelic dial is concerned, I can only assume that those instruments were used. I do recall  Piazzetta attaching some device to the back of the stove to check for air loss/pressure ?

Regarding the adjustment of the combustion fan, that was done via the control panel.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Oh, before you do any major setting changes, you should thoroughly clean your stove.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> I'm assuming the Piazzetta people were the distributor from NH?
> 
> To be honest, once your stove is dialed in, most pellets should burn just fine.
> 
> ...




Yes, the Piazzetta people who came out were from NH.  Although, the head sales person was actually from Connecticut. 

And, needless to say, give the ongoing ordeal with the Sabrina(s), I didn't make it onto their Christmas card list this year. Oh, well. 

Anyway, as far as the parameters are concerned, these seems to be some disagreement between camps. Initially the stove shop upped the settings, while Piazzetta admonished them for doing so.
Interestingly, Piazzetta later altered the settings themselves. 

Neither seemed to change much though. 

At this point, I'm wondering if there's a possibility that I simply received 2 bad stoves ?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Oh, before you do any major setting changes, you should thoroughly clean your stove.


No worries. I wouldn't even know where to begin with changing the settings.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Can you snap a couple of pictures?

I would like to see the venting and OAK along with their terminations for the stove you are having trouble with.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Can you snap a couple of pictures?
> 
> I would like to see the venting and OAK along with their terminations for the stove you are having trouble with.


I'd be happy to, but noticed that the image uploader on the forum is acting quirky ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

I what way?   I just gave it a try and it did what I expected it to.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I what way?   I just gave it a try and it did what I expected it to.



It must be on my end then. I'll give it another try.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)




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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> No worries. I wouldn't even know where to begin with changing the settings.


How about reading the settings for us?

There are 6 buttons on your stove. Let's pretend the leftmost one is button 1 and the rightmost one is button 6.

If you hold down the rightmost button, button 6 for about 3 seconds, then the parameter list will start scrolling.

Push button 5 twice, which will get you to "Stove Status".

Then push button 3, which will then show you your current settings for, combustion fan rpm, stove exhaust temp and pellet feed rate.

Just write down what you see, and let us know.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> View attachment 152086
> View attachment 152086


Should be okay, but you can see that a vortex is created right at that corner.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

The cap on the the vent run is from whom?   It doesn't look like a horizontal termination cap.

And is that a pvc pipe I'm seeing the OAK and what is the cap on it? It should not terminate forward of the vent termination.

How far is the vent from the corner of the building?

Can I see a closer picture of the OAK termination.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> How about reading the settings for us?
> 
> There are 6 buttons on your stove. Let's pretend the leftmost one is button 1 and the rightmost one is button 6.
> 
> ...


1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
193F - Smoke Probe
3.3 - auger loading


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## Lake Girl (Jan 30, 2015)

Reused jet cap (which is for horizontal venting) on the end of the upper bend?  Isn't the termination supposed to be XX" above roof line?


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## Lake Girl (Jan 30, 2015)

OAK isn't supposed to be of PVC ...  Shortest run reduces restrictions... Elbowed up?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Page 11 - 1.11 .


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Vent system is out of specification at both ends.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> The cap on the the vent run is from whom?   It doesn't look like a horizontal termination cap.
> 
> And is that a pvc pipe I'm seeing the OAK and what is the cap on it? It should not terminate forward of the vent termination.
> 
> ...


No pvc - all metal.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

There is positively absolutely a problem with the image uploader on this forum. I cannot get it work.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

There's some kind of a pathway issue that locks up my iMac ? And, it's clearly not on my end.
I'm a journalist, and I've  been writing and uploading content and images all day.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> There's some kind of a pathway issue that locks up my iMac ? And, it's clearly not on my end.
> I'm a journalist, and I've  been writing and uploading content and images all day.



Well Lake Girl what does the tech support department back at HQ have to say?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Well Lake Girl what does the tech support department back at HQ have to say?


If you care to share your direct email with me, I can send you some better photos of the venting.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> There is positively absolutely a problem with the image uploader on this forum. I cannot get it work.


You could upload to Dropbox and then post links.


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## BrotherBart (Jan 30, 2015)

How large is the pic file?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> 1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
> 193F - Smoke Probe
> 3.3 - auger loading


Well, those are the settings for P1, 3.3 secs per every 12 secs. 193F is okay for exhaust temp on P1. Don't want to get too low. 1830rpm is right around factory setting of 1850rpm. It does fluctuate just a bit. Anyhow, for comparison, my P1 fan setting is 2100 in order to get the pressure up to factory spec.

If you set the Power settings on the other 4 settings, you can get the pellet feed and combustion fan readings for the other settings, particularly if there are settings giving you trouble, like P4 or P5. I'm assuming the video you posted was of P4 or P5.

I would ask the shop and/or the Piazzetta rep if they used a manometer or magnahelic to set the combustion fan. That should have been done before they told you the last resort is to clean every 12 hrs and/or to return the unit.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> If you care to share your direct email with me, I can send you some better photos of the venting.



What Apple OS version are you running?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Testing my uploading...
	

		
			
		

		
	





Seems to work from my Mac just fine.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)




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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)




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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

Much better picture. 

Now does that double clean-out come straight out or is it tilted downward. if the OAK was where it is in that picture and the pipe was straight out I can see where the first go around was not working exactly correctly because the exhaust has to be higher than the air intake and you don't want to be sucking dirty oxygen depleted air back in through the OAK which may have been taking place. 

If there is a downward tilt in that double clean out you have degraded the output side all sections of venting must be upward by at least 1/4" per foot of "horizontal" run.

The vent being that close to the soffit is also not to your advantage not to mention that the manual specifically speaks to the termination in this particular situation requiring a 45 degree downward piece after the 90 degree elbow at the top of this method of venting. 

Now is there a screen on the end of the OAK that we can't see, there is a minimum mesh size listed in the manual IIRC (I only glanced through it).

Now what were the settings that chken wanted to know about and what was the setting that the dealer was attempting to tune to along with the correct procedure to do so?  The OAKies you are burning are a fairly dense pellet and require a good amount of non oxygen depleted air to burn correctly.

These pellet roasters are self polluting, doubly so when not properly vented or setup.   There are other inside the firebox conditions that have to be correct as well.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> 1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
> 193F - Smoke Probe
> 3.3 - auger loading





SmokeyTheBear said:


> Much better picture.
> 
> Now does that double clean-out come straight out or is it tilted downward. if the OAK was where it is in that picture and the pipe was straight out I can see where the first go around was not working exactly correctly because the exhaust has to be higher than the air intake and you don't want to be sucking dirty oxygen depleted air back in through the OAK which may have been taking place.
> 
> ...



The pipe appears to be tilted, but two far as I can tell its level.
These are the figures I got during the read-out. However, some figures seem to be missing ?

1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
193F - Smoke Probe
3.3 - auger loading


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

millerized said:


> Getting enough outside air?
> Does it work any better with the other stove on or off?


Makes no difference if the other stove is running too.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> The pipe appears to be tilted, but two far as I can tell its level.
> These are the figures I got during the read-out. However, some figures seem to be missing ?
> 
> 1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
> ...



I believe that chken wants that information for each firing rate.

ETA: We don't trust the eyeball if we aren't there and it really needs to be measured and it must point upward.  No guessing allowed.  Just like my use of IIRC, you need to crack open the manual read it and then verify what is actually there.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> I'm assuming the Piazzetta people were the distributor from NH?
> 
> To be honest, once your stove is dialed in, most pellets should burn just fine.
> 
> ...


What would you recommend setting my stove to ?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I believe that chken wants that information for each firing rate.


When I followed the steps he gave me, that's all that was shown. Maybe I missed a step ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> When I followed the steps he gave me, that's all that was shown. Maybe I missed a step ?



I think he will come back for the rest of the settings or you could send him a private message.

BTW: What was it with the pictures that enabled you to finally upload the last one. I know that at least two updates to some of Apple's system software didn't pass along required information to the requesting server.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> I think he will come back for the rest of the settings or you could send him a private message.
> 
> BTW: What was it with the pictures that enabled you to finally upload the last one. I know that at least two updates to some of Apple's system software didn't pass along required information to the requesting server.


I posted the images on another platform, and inserted in my forum post via the url(s).


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

This is how things are looking after just 9 hours of operation.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> The pipe appears to be tilted, but two far as I can tell its level.
> These are the figures I got during the read-out. However, some figures seem to be missing ?
> 
> 1830 - Smoke Fan rpm
> ...


That's for P1. The scrolling will disappear after a few minutes. If you want to clear it quickly, just hit button 4. If you want to see the settings for the other Power levels, you need to change the power level. Then do as before and you can read out the fan rpm and augur feed rate. Of course the temp levels take time to adjust so those likely won't be correct.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> What would you recommend setting my stove to ?


I'd like to see all of your settings first, but when the tech adjusted your stove, did he connect a manometer or magnahelic to the back, or did he just do it by eye?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> I'd like to see all of your settings first, but when the tech adjusted your stove, did he connect a manometer or magnahelic to the back, or did he just do it by eye?


By eye.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> This is how things are looking after just 9 hours of operation.


What power setting is that? P4 or P5? Can you see the igniter hole after 9 hours? That sooty glass and big flame indicate a poor burn, and too many pellets for the air. Too rich.


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> By eye.


And, so when he got it adjusted, how did the flame look? Because presumably, he was satisfied with its appearance. Did it look better, or did it look like the picture?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

If you don't want to do it, which it sounds like you don't, you should call the dealer and make sure he sends a tech who can adjust your settings using a manometer or magnahelic. He can't recommend cleaning the grate every 12 hrs or returning the stove before he's done the basics of a proper installation. I gave you a link to the installation manual, and the tech should have one as well. It's clear in the install manual that he should be using a manometer or magnahelic to set the proper combustion. It's just like you said in your first post, you've bought a Ferrari that hasn't been tuned properly.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> What power setting is that? P4 or P5? Can you see the igniter hole after 9 hours? That sooty glass and big flame indicate a poor burn, and too many pellets for the air. Too rich.



It's running on P5


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> And, so when he got it adjusted, how did the flame look? Because presumably, he was satisfied with its appearance. Did it look better, or did it look like the picture?


Keep in mind, the adjustment was made right after the stove was cleaned, so everything look good at the time.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> If you don't want to do it, which it sounds like you don't, you should call the dealer and make sure he sends a tech who can adjust your settings using a manometer or magnahelic. He can't recommend cleaning the grate every 12 hrs or returning the stove before he's done the basics of a proper installation. I gave you a link to the installation manual, and the tech should have one as well. It's clear in the install manual that he should be using a manometer or magnahelic to set the proper combustion. It's just like you said in your first post, you've bought a Ferrari that hasn't been tuned properly.


Can I adjust it manually myself at this point ?


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## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Can I adjust it manually myself at this point ?


Of course, that's your choice. But, it's likely that the dealer technician already has a manometer or magnahelic and can do it far quicker.

Though I have to say given that he hasn't used it yet, I'm wondering...

You can do like the tech and adjust it by eye, lots of people do; or, you can buy yourself a manometer, about $60 or magnahelic and read the install manual I gave you and do it yourself..


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Of course, that's your choice. But, it's likely that the dealer technician already has a manometer or magnahelic and can do it far quicker.
> 
> Though I have to say given that he hasn't used it yet, I'm wondering...
> 
> You can do like the tech and adjust it by eye, lots of people do; or, you can buy yourself a manometer, about $60 or magnahelic and read the install manual I gave you and do it yourself..



Based on the steps you gave me, these are the readings I got:

P1 1820
P2 1820
P3 1820
P4 1830
P5 1830

The likelihood of me getting the tech from the stove shop out here any time soon is slim to none.  If you can guide me, I'm willing to try changing them on my own.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Based on the steps you gave me, these are the readings I got:
> 
> P1 1820
> P2 1820
> ...


It's likely that while you may have changed the Power settings, the stove was in "OK" mode meaning that the thermostat had defaulted to P1, so the combustion fan did not change. You need to set the thermostat higher, then everything will change.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Okay, if you're willing to try, and it's pretty harmless to try, first, I'd read the install manual I gave you a link to.

The important pages start on Page 14. The part about how to use the manometer is on Page 18. The table with all the settings you can change are on P21 for the Sabrina and P22 for the Monia. And, the key parameters you want to try are #18 thru 22, those are the combustion fan speeds for P1 to P5.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> It's likely that while you may have changed the Power settings, the stove was in "OK" mode meaning that the thermostat had defaulted to P1, so the combustion fan did not change. You need to set the thermostat higher, then everything will change.


I'm not sure I follow you. You want me to increase the temperature each time I check the fan speed ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I'm not sure I follow you. You want me to increase the temperature each time I check the fan speed ?


The readings above all indicate P1. That happens when the stove reaches the temp target. It defaults to P1. So, in order not to keep reading the settings for P1, you need to up the thermostat.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> The readings above all indicate P1. That happens when the stove reaches the temp target. It defaults to P1. So, in order not to keep reading the settings for P1, you need to up the thermostat.


Ok. I just cleaned out the stove and restarted it. 

Once it gets up to temperature I'll recheck the settings.


----------



## Lake Girl (Jan 30, 2015)

Way to go chken ...  That stove set up needs some help!  

North, who was the dealer?  Can't remember if I read if they did the install...??


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> The readings above all indicate P1. That happens when the stove reaches the temp target. It defaults to P1. So, in order not to keep reading the settings for P1, you need to up the thermostat.


Ok. So, I rechecked the settings, each time upping the temperature.

These are the figures I got:

p1 2250
p2 1950
p3 2110
p4 2270 
p5 2470


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

Lake Girl said:


> Way to go chken ...  That stove set up needs some help!
> 
> North, who was the dealer?  Can't remember if I read if they did the install...??


The Fireplace in Whately, Massachusetts


----------



## Lake Girl (Jan 30, 2015)

How long have they carried the Piazzetta?  Doesn't look like they have any experience with pellet stoves ...


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Ok. So, I rechecked the settings, each time upping the temperature.
> 
> These are the figures I got:
> 
> ...


Did you get the augur feed rate settings as well?


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Did you get the augur feed rate settings as well?


No. Do you need them ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm going to assume that the P1 setting is 1730, not 2250.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> No. Do you need them ?


Well, I doubt they were changed, but you should record them at some point.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Well, I doubt they were changed, but you should record them at some point.


Do you recommend that I up the settings ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Do you recommend that I up the settings ?


From what little we have, it does appear you need more air. That is, black soot, lazy flame.

I recommend getting a manometer or magnahelic and first adjusting to factory spec, then adjusting by eye. However, if you want to adjust by eye, then it's generally safe given that the air is only adjustable within a range.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

A good burn should have a nice tight flame, yellowish in color, not orangish. The pellets should dance in the pot, but not fly out. The bits of ash should fly out like fireflies.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Okay, if you're willing to try, and it's pretty harmless to try, first, I'd read the install manual I gave you a link to.

The important pages start on Page 14. The part about how to use the manometer is on Page 18. The table with all the settings you can change are on P21 for the Sabrina and P22 for the Monia. And, the key parameters you want to try are #18 thru 22, those are the combustion fan speeds for P1 to P5.

Go ahead and adjust the combustion fan speed, see how it affects the flame. Change the speed, wait a bit for things to normalize. You have to try and use your judgement.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> I'm going to assume that the P1 setting is 1730, not 2250.





chken said:


> I'm going to assume that the P1 setting is 1730, not 2250.


I went back and checked the P1 settings. After it ran for a bit, the figured settled on 1820. Make sense ?


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> A good burn should have a nice tight flame, yellowish in color, not orangish. The pellets should dance in the pot, but not fly out. The bits of ash should fly out like fireflies.


That precisely how the Monia runs.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Okay, if you're willing to try, and it's pretty harmless to try, first, I'd read the install manual I gave you a link to.
> 
> The important pages start on Page 14. The part about how to use the manometer is on Page 18. The table with all the settings you can change are on P21 for the Sabrina and P22 for the Monia. And, the key parameters you want to try are #18 thru 22, those are the combustion fan speeds for P1 to P5.
> 
> Go ahead and adjust the combustion fan speed, see how it affects the flame. Change the speed, wait a bit for things to normalize. You have to try and use your judgement.


At the risk of sounding stupid, what prompts on the keypad do I use to change the settings ? And, what settings would you recommend ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I went back and checked the P1 settings. After it ran for a bit, the figured settled on 1820. Make sense ?


Uhm, well that's better than 2250, but doesn't explain why you showed 1730 at first. To be honest, it doesn't really matter.

When you go into the parameter settings, you'll see what the actual settings are. At THAT point, write down what those settings are, so you can revert, in case you decide to start over.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Uhm, well that's better than 2250, but doesn't explain why you showed 1730 at first. To be honest, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> When you go into the parameter settings, you'll see what the actual settings are. At THAT point, write down what those settings are, so you can revert, in case you decide to start over.


I thought that I first reported 1830 not 1730. No matter.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> At the risk of sounding stupid, what prompts on the keypad do I use to change the settings ? And, what settings would you recommend ?


As I wrote, the process on how to access the parameters is in the programming manual. You want to read it and in particular study the chart on Page 14. You need to drill down the menu to get to Menu Parameters, Setting Factory.

On Page 15, they tell you the access code is "E9".

On Page 19, the show you how to drill down to the key settings you want to change, #18 to 22.

As for what settings would I recommend, I can't. I'm not looking at your stove. You have to look at your stove and adjust the fan and see whether that's better or not. 

THAT's why I keep recommending the manometer or magnahelic. They take most of the guesswork out. Then you can tweak to the final setting by eye/


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> As I wrote, the process on how to access the parameters is in the programming manual. You want to read it and in particular study the chart on Page 14. You need to drill down the menu to get to Menu Parameters, Setting Factory.
> 
> On Page 15, they tell you the access code is "E9".
> 
> ...


Ok. I'll try it by eye, but is there a maximum setting that you would recommend not exceeding ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Ok. I'll try it by eye, but is there a maximum setting that you would recommend not exceeding ?


No, the stove settings have a range, they won't let you exceed what the mfr deems safe.

Start with the first P1 setting which would be Parameter 18.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> No, the stove settings have a range, they won't let you exceed what the mfr deems safe.
> 
> Start with the first P1 setting which would be Parameter 18.


I can't seem to get past the E9 step. I keep getting the message "code error" ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Are you inputting "E9" at the right point? You should be at Menu Parameters>Settings Factory>Code Access>

Then you scroll until you show E9


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Are you inputting "E9" at the right point? You should be at Menu Parameters>Settings Factory>Code Access>
> 
> Then you scroll until you show E9


Ok. I got that. P1 is now showing. What's next ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Ok. I got that. P1 is now showing. What's next ?


You scroll until you get to Parameter 18, that's the one for the combustion fan on P1, so it should show 1830 or so.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> You scroll until you get to Parameter 18, that's the one for the combustion fan on P1, so it should show 1830 or so.


I got it  Is it ok the increase the blower speed too ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I got it  Is it ok the increase the blower speed too ?


Room blower? You mean Settings 23 to 27? Heck yeah. Did you adjust Parameters 18 to 22 already?


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Room blower? You mean Settings 23 to 27? Heck yeah. Did you adjust Parameters 18 to 22 already?


Yes, settings 23 to 27. I increased them a bit too.

I pretty much maxed out the settings for 18 to 22. Is that ok ?


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Yes, settings 23 to 27. I increased them a bit too.
> 
> I pretty much maxed out the settings for 18 to 22. Is that ok ?


Uhm, I dunno, I would keep an eye on the stove. Regular checks. Just make sure the pellets aren't flying out of the pot. The risk is you blow unburnt pellets out, so you don't get all the energy from them.


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Now, you're an expert, you pretty much know as much as I know, and it seems you know more than your dealer techs.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Uhm, I dunno, I would keep an eye on the stove. Regular checks. Just make sure the pellets aren't flying out of the pot. The risk is you blow unburnt pellets out, so you don't get all the energy from them.





chken said:


> Now, you're an expert, you pretty much know as much as I know, and it seems you know more than your dealer techs.









It looks like we've gone from a camp fire to a blow torch now 

I'll follow up in a day or two with a progress report.

Many thanks !


----------



## chken (Jan 30, 2015)

Nice and crisp!


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Jan 30, 2015)

chken said:


> Nice and crisp!


Fingers crossed, we're on to something !


----------



## millerized (Jan 31, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Makes no difference if the other stove is running too.


If it doesn't have an OAK, it sure does.
When the question was asked, I had not seen a mention of an outside air source. 
2 appliances sharing the same available air for combustion, the one with the better flowthrough will 'win' every time. No OAK means sharing.
That's why I was asking.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Jan 31, 2015)

And that is also why I asked about OAKs and any other air movers including fireplaces and furnaces etc... Because some of these devices move a lot of air and can depressurize a house and cause all kinds of burn issues even for some stoves with an OAK.

After you get all of the likely interference sources ruled out then you can play with the draft setting on the stove and likely clean up your burn.

If you really want to see a really powerful air mover you need likely go no further than an empty clothes drier.  Makes a leaf blower vacuum pale in comparison.  I have such a critter about 30 feet from my stove.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 5, 2015)

chken said:


> Nice and crisp!



*"Follow Up Report"
*
After following your advice to increase the stove's parameters (i.e. combustion fan speed), I'm pleased to say that it has resulted in a profound improvement in performance.  

In addition, I also decided to change the stove's settings with regard to the frequency and duration of the "grate cleaning" process. 

Basically, I programmed the stove to perform its grate cleaning function every 30 minutes, instead of the factory setting of 60. Curiously, mine was set to occur every 180 minutes ? Also, I decided to increase the grate cleaning time from the  the factory setting of 20 seconds, to 30. My hope is that this will keep the burn pot cleaner, and stave off the inevitable clinker. 

Any thoughts on my decision to make these additional adjustments ?


----------



## chken (Feb 5, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> *"Follow Up Report"
> *
> After following your advice to increase the stove's parameters (i.e. combustion fan speed), I'm pleased to say that it has resulted in a profound improvement in performance.
> 
> ...


I didn't want to confuse you with changing any of the other settings given your combustion issue, but yes, I and Pascal, the dealer from Canada, who posts here both have changed our grate cleaning times and intervals just as you have. There was some talk that the manufacturer might release a new OS that including grate cleaning for P1 and P2, since they don't currently.

Oh, and I'm glad that the stove is burning much better. If you change pellets just be aware you might want to adjust your combustion. I do, since the two varieties of pellets I have, Blazers and FSUs are rather different. For example, the FSUs may have the shortest pellets I've seen, which means more fuel drops into the pot each augur turn. More fuel requires more air.

I'm still just shaking my head that your dealer tech basically gave up by telling you to shut down and clean every 12 hrs. That's ridiculous.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 5, 2015)

chken said:


> I didn't want to confuse you with changing any of the other settings given your combustion issue, but yes, I and Pascal, the dealer from Canada, who posts here both have changed our grate cleaning times and intervals just as you have. There was some talk that the manufacturer might release a new OS that including grate cleaning for P1 and P2, since they don't currently.
> 
> Oh, and I'm glad that the stove is burning much better. If you change pellets just be aware you might want to adjust your combustion. I do, since the two varieties of pellets I have, Blazers and FSUs are rather different. For example, the FSUs may have the shortest pellets I've seen, which means more fuel drops into the pot each augur turn. More fuel requires more air.
> 
> I'm still just shaking my head that your dealer tech basically gave up by telling you to shut down and clean every 12 hrs. That's ridiculous.



It wasn't the dealer tech who told me that I had to live with shutting down the stove and cleaning it very 12 hours, it was the head honcho at Piazzetta's distribution here in the north east who said that  

Any way, as far as pellets are concerned, it seems that the Sabrina does best with a premium softwood like the Okanagan Red or Douglas Fir. With the Monia, I could run Fiddle-Faddle through it, and it would still perform perfectly. 

Right now I'm out of the Okanagans, and I'm stuck using some local brand that consists of mixed hardwood and softwood pellets, which seem to be doing fine. 

Also, is there a setting that's different from the factory, which better optimizes the feed rate ? Or, is it a finesse thing that one changes base on pellet type ?


----------



## chken (Feb 5, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> It wasn't the dealer tech who told me that I had to live with shutting down the stove and cleaning it very 12 hours, it was the head honcho at Piazzetta's distribution here in the north east who said that
> 
> Any way, as far as pellets are concerned, it seems that the Sabrina does best with a premium softwood like the Okanagan Red or Douglas Fir. With the Monia, I could run Fiddle-Faddle through it, and it would still perform perfectly.
> 
> ...


Okay, that's a little better, you'd expect the tech to know better!  Head honcho, not so much.

I'm not sure why the Monia would differ from the Sabrina, as they're pretty much the same stove but a different size. Presumably if the Monia can burn anything, then the Sabrina should too, with the proper adjustments.

As far as the feed rate goes, not too many have adjusted feed rates. I ran a test last year to see how quickly a bag would burn on setting P5, and it took 8 hrs, when it should have taken 7 hrs, so I adjusted the feed rate up to better span the stove's rated BTU range. Of course, that meant upping the air to match, and since I was already near the max setting on air, upping the feed rate just put me more against the max limit on air, so I've since adjusted the feed rates back to about original, just to give myself more air adjustment room.

Ultimately, it's far easier to change air rates, than pellet feed rates, since it's so hard to tell if the pellet feed is too much or too little, given the variability of pellet drop. I use a manometer just to get things in the ball park, and even then it requires a lot of further adjustment. If you're buying tons of pellets, then changing rates once in a month or two doesn't seem so bad, but to have to change more often than that seems like a hassle.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 5, 2015)

chken said:


> Okay, that's a little better, you'd expect the tech to know better!  Head honcho, not so much.
> 
> I'm not sure why the Monia would differ from the Sabrina, as they're pretty much the same stove but a different size. Presumably if the Monia can burn anything, then the Sabrina should too, with the proper adjustments.
> 
> ...



Since some of the other settings are off, I guess I should go back and make sure the feed rate is set to factory specs in accordance with the file you provided me.


----------



## Drew65 (Feb 6, 2015)

It's like having a brand new stove once you dial it in


----------



## chken (Feb 6, 2015)

Drew65 said:


> It's like having a brand new stove once you dial it in


Yep, night and day, I feel sorry for anyone with a stove that's not running the way it should, because there's such a big difference when it runs right.


----------



## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 6, 2015)

Moral of the story NorthoftheQuabbin?


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 8, 2015)

My Sabrina had a relapse this morning 

After running for approximately 24 hours, I awoke to this mess.

Just out of habit, I was still shutting down the stove every 24 hours or so, and cleaning out burn pot. And, short of some typical build up, there were no signs of the stove reverting back to its old ways.

However, over the last 24 hours, I noticed that big, fat lazy flame starting to rear its head again.

I recall you saying, that before I change any of the stove's parameters, I should give it a thorough cleaning. Unfortunately, I hadn't received my new ash vacuum yet, so I had to forgo it. Besides, it had received a thorough cleaning just 3 weeks ago. 

In any case, now that I have my new vacuum, I decided to pull everything apart, to included the combustion fan compartment, and clean the stove within an inch of its life.

Hopefully, I'm now back on track.

Otherwise, I'm not sure if I need to call in a stove tech or an exorcist at this point 












chken said:


> Yep, night and day, I feel sorry for anyone with a stove that's not running the way it should, because there's such a big difference when it runs right.


----------



## chken (Feb 8, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> My Sabrina had a relapse this morning
> 
> After running for approximately 24 hours, I awoke to this mess.
> 
> ...


Yeah, first a thorough cleaning. I'd include the vent pipe, because poor combustion leads to deposits all the way down to the termination cap.

Then, as soon as you see a lazy flame, you have to look at the pot, to see if the pellets are building up a clinker blocking the air holes, because that will eventually form a brick, which will lead to pellets filling the pot and flowing over as in your picture. I've only had that happen once when I went about 18 bags straight without touching the stove.

You should always be able to see the igniter hole. If not, it's time to clean.
The ash color, a salt n pepper appearance looks fine.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 8, 2015)

chken said:


> Yeah, first a thorough cleaning. I'd include the vent pipe, because poor combustion leads to deposits all the way down to the termination cap.
> 
> Then, as soon as you see a lazy flame, you have to look at the pot, to see if the pellets are building up a clinker blocking the air holes, because that will eventually form a brick, which will lead to pellets filling the pot and flowing over as in your picture. I've only had that happen once when I went about 18 bags straight without touching the stove.
> 
> ...




The stove was definitely a mess when I pulled it apart. I'm not sure if the build up was typical, or symptomatic of my stove's issues, but it's certainly clean now.


Gee, every time I claim victory, this stove conspires against me.


----------



## chken (Feb 8, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> The stove was definitely a mess when I pulled it apart. I'm not sure if the build up was typical, or symptomatic of my stove's issues, but it's certainly clean now.
> 
> 
> Gee, every time I claim victory, this stove conspires against me.


Just to be clear, there are 3 basic routines: a daily scrape of the grate to make sure the air holes aren't blocked, and a wipe of the glass, and a quick suck on the ash vac. I used to do this daily, but now, once a week under moderate use, i.e. less than 2 bags a day, and twice a week under heavy use, 2 or more bags a day. Weekly, which includes vacuuming out the firebox, including behind the back plate. Monthly, or after a ton of pellets, clean out the vent pipe. I do the Leaf Blower Trick when I do the monthly clean, but the last 2 times I did it, there was no ash at all. I take this as a good sign that my regular cleaning routine is working. If you get a big ash cloud, I'd take that as indicative of a cleaning routine that needs some more elbow grease.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 8, 2015)

chken said:


> Just to be clear, there are 3 basic routines: a daily scrape of the grate to make sure the air holes aren't blocked, and a wipe of the glass, and a quick suck on the ash vac. I used to do this daily, but now, once a week under moderate use, i.e. less than 2 bags a day, and twice a week under heavy use, 2 or more bags a day. Weekly, which includes vacuuming out the firebox, including behind the back plate. Monthly, or after a ton of pellets, clean out the vent pipe. I do the Leaf Blower Trick when I do the monthly clean, but the last 2 times I did it, there was no ash at all. I take this as a good sign that my regular cleaning routine is working. If you get a big ash cloud, I'd take that as indicative of a cleaning routine that needs some more elbow grease.



Based on your routine, it sounds like I may have been a bit remiss on my cleaning regiment.  I didn't realize that I should be cleaning behind the back plate so often. No worries, I have a new Power Smith vacuum 

Also, I noticed when I was  giving the Monia a thorough cleaning tonight, that the combustion fan seems to move more freely than the Sabrina. Not sure if this was just my impression, or there's some significance to it ?


----------



## Drew65 (Feb 8, 2015)

Don't forget the upper part of the heat exchanger. I work it over with a good sized paint brush. I also run the ash vac along the under side of the heat shield at the top in the daily cleaning.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 12, 2015)

I reached a milestone with my Sabrina this week.  It ran for  3 days nonstop, wherein it produced the most beautiful torch like flame the whole time  

I decided to shut it down, only to give it a complimentary vac and wipe of the glass, in which case the fire pot, as well as the ashtray, contained nothing but the finest powdery like ash.    

I haven't exhibited this much excitement over a  home appliance since my Ronco Slice-amatic. Or was it the Pocket Fisherman, I can't remember ?


----------



## chken (Feb 12, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I reached a milestone with my Sabrina this week.  It ran for  3 days nonstop, wherein it produced the most beautiful torch like flame the whole time
> 
> I decided to shut it down, only to give it a complimentary vac and wipe of the glass, in which case the fire pot, as well as the ashtray, contained nothing but the finest powdery like ash.
> 
> I haven't exhibited this much excitement over a  home appliance since my Ronco Slice-amatic. Or was it the Pocket Fisherman, I can't remember ?


Hahaha, just in time for the arctic blast. And, I know the feeling. Having a stove run that well, makes you sad for everyone who hasn't optimized their combustion.


----------



## cheap4heat (Feb 16, 2015)

Hey guys! Awesome thread!

Glad to know I'm not he only one with this problem!
North.... My question for you is after your relapse did you make further modifications to your settings or ever use a manometer? I definitely need to adjust my airflow I am running a Sabrina with oak. My house is only about 1400 sqft so I run it on power 3 this gives me about 24 hours before my glass is asked up and burn pot clogged


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 16, 2015)

cheap4heat said:


> Hey guys! Awesome thread!
> 
> Glad to know I'm not he only one with this problem!
> North.... My question for you is after your relapse did you make further modifications to your settings or ever use a manometer? I definitely need to adjust my airflow I am running a Sabrina with oak. My house is only about 1400 sqft so I run it on power 3 this gives me about 24 hours before my glass is asked up and burn pot clogged



Chken is the man to ask, but based on my experience, I would recommend increasing the parameters for the combustion fan speed to the max, and running the stove on its highest power setting and controlling it by temperature. I may be wrong, but I don't think the Sabrina goes through the grate cleaning  process when rum on P3, nor does it have a combustion speed that provides enough rpm's. Also,  I found setting the grate cleaning function to occur every 30 minutes, for the longest cycle (which is 30 seconds) helps too. 

Lastly, I've found that the Sabrina really likes to be cleaned. I've made it almost a bi-weekly ritual to pull everything apart, to include the combustion fan compartment, and clean the hell out of it. As a basic routine, I still shut my Sabrina down every 36 to 48 hours and give the fire pot, ash container and glass a once over. Also, I've found that the Sabrina runs best with premium soft wood pellets - such as the Okanagan Premium or Douglas Fir.


----------



## cheap4heat (Feb 16, 2015)

So just to be clear you set your combustion fan speed at 2800? I think setting my stove at the highest settings might be to much for the size of my home...

Right now I am cleaning it out ever 24 hours or so or I will jam up. I am burning LG currently.

Do you find your glass is getting less dirty?
Are you runnin more efficient? 

Also when I reach the menu for the access code I find E9 how do I access the settings once my screen reads E9?

Thanks for your patience!


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 16, 2015)

cheap4heat said:


> So just to be clear you set your combustion fan speed at 2800? I think setting my stove at the highest settings might be to much for the size of my home...
> 
> Right now I am cleaning it out ever 24 hours or so or I will jam up. I am burning LG currently.
> 
> ...



Don't confuse combustion speed with the room fan/blower setting. A higher combustion fan speed is what's going to give your stove what it needs in terms of added air flow relative to the burn process, and not necessarily the effect of having more hot air being blown into the room. That you can control separately.

As far as accessing the stove's parameter settings, once E9 appears upon the screen, you need to press the set button. From there, the display will begin to show the stove's settings. 

Making these adjustments on my stove. had a profound effect on its performance. It's truly been a night and day difference. Previously, my stove wouldn't even run for 24 hours before I had a clinker/overload crisis on my hands, to include a glass screen that was almost completely covered in  soot.


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## chken (Feb 16, 2015)

cheap4heat said:


> So just to be clear you set your combustion fan speed at 2800? I think setting my stove at the highest settings might be to much for the size of my home...
> 
> Right now I am cleaning it out ever 24 hours or so or I will jam up. I am burning LG currently.
> 
> ...


LG is an excellent pellet. I burned 2 tons of those last year. 

When your menu shows E9, you've got to punch it in, then the menu will show you setting 1. You can then scroll thru all 28 settings.

The combustion fan is the air for the fire, not the room blower. So, setting the combustion blower higher, won't affect the room blower at all.


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## chken (Feb 16, 2015)

cheap4heat said:


> Hey guys! Awesome thread!
> 
> Glad to know I'm not he only one with this problem!
> North.... My question for you is after your relapse did you make further modifications to your settings or ever use a manometer? I definitely need to adjust my airflow I am running a Sabrina with oak. My house is only about 1400 sqft so I run it on power 3 this gives me about 24 hours before my glass is asked up and burn pot clogged


Pictures help, but if you follow the thread carefully, basically North had a poor burn, which was evidenced by black soot, overflowing pot, lazy flame, and needing to shutdown every day.

If your stove is running well, it needs to be clean, and the fire needs enough air. I've found that you need to add lots of air to get it to mfr.'s spec, at least in my house. That also seems to work for North. I've used a manometer, but if you have an experienced eye, you can do it manually. I can easily burn 10 bags without having to shut down or scrape anything. If your stove is running well, you should be able to, too.


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## cheap4heat (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks guys I bumped up some settings after cleaning my stove tonight my flame looks less lazy, time will tell how we make out over the next couple days. Your thread has been a huge help seriously. Like I said my issue has been very similar to norths so this should sharpen up the function.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 17, 2015)

Proper installation and setup is critical, there are thousands of threads on here that have one or the other or  both messed up.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Feb 20, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> *"Follow Up Report"
> *
> After following your advice to increase the stove's parameters (i.e. combustion fan speed), I'm pleased to say that it has resulted in a profound improvement in performance.
> 
> ...


perfect ! I always adjust all my customers stove this way, it as became my default settings.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Feb 20, 2015)

chken said:


> Hahaha, just in time for the arctic blast. And, I know the feeling. Having a stove run that well, makes you sad for everyone who hasn't optimized their combustion.


and an other satisfied customer ...! if dealer could just do there job properly. lol...


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 20, 2015)

I had another setback with my Sabrina today. 
Following a thorough cleaning yesterday and it's usual scrap of the fire pot and wipe of the glass this morning, that lazy old flame and sooty film reared a its ugly head again for most of today. And, after only about 8 hours of running, I had to shut it down  
Every time I claim victory with this SOB, it conspires against me. I'm really considering throwing in the towel at this point


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## Drew65 (Feb 21, 2015)

Don't give up yet your almost there. Spend the $50 and grab a manometer and set the air then play with the feed rate like chicken said. Mine was over feeding because of the smaller pellet pieces in the firesides I'm burning. It would build up a bed of pellets and the grate clean couldn't blow the ash from underneath it. Then the cake built up and crusted over the pot.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

Drew65 said:


> Don't give up yet your almost there. Spend the $50 and grab a manometer and set the air then play with the feed rate like chicken said. Mine was over feeding because of the smaller pellet pieces in the firesides I'm burning. It would build up a bed of pellets and the grate clean couldn't blow the ash from underneath it. Then the cake built up and crusted over the pot.


I'm a little confused about what a manometer can do in my situation? If I already have the combustion speed on its highest setting, what would having a manometer do ?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

BTW, my Piazzetta Monia continues to run like a Patek Philippe watch. 

I'm completely baffled why my  Sabrina can't seem to perform beyond that of a drugstore watch ?


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## Drew65 (Feb 21, 2015)

It was designed to work at a set draft pressure. Sometimes more isn't better as chicken said.


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## chken (Feb 21, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I had another setback with my Sabrina today.
> Following a thorough cleaning yesterday and it's usual scrap of the fire pot and wipe of the glass this morning, that lazy old flame and sooty film reared a its ugly head again for most of today. And, after only about 8 hours of running, I had to shut it down
> Every time I claim victory with this SOB, it conspires against me. I'm really considering throwing in the towel at this point


Sometimes when you clean a stove, you clean the visible parts, and dislodge ash which collects in the non-visible parts. I would do two things before giving up, one: check the horizontal part of the venting. That's the hardest part to clean and most likely place for ash to collect. Two, I would just check the gasket to make sure there aren't any leaks, and the grate to make sure it's seated nicely. Leaking air can cause a poor burn as well.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

chken said:


> Sometimes when you clean a stove, you clean the visible parts, and dislodge ash which collects in the non-visible parts. I would do two things before giving up, one: check the horizontal part of the venting. That's the hardest part to clean and most likely place for ash to collect. Two, I would just check the gasket to make sure there aren't any leaks, and the grate to make sure it's seated nicely. Leaking air can cause a poor burn as well.


Basically, I clean the area behind the back and top plates, the fire pot and tray and the compartment for the combustion fan. I'm not sue where else I should be cleaning ? 

When you say gaskets, what specifically are you referring to ? The asbestos trim that lines the plate on top of the combustion fan compartment ? What a makeshift design that is !


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## CleanFire (Feb 21, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> BTW, my Piazzetta Monia continues to run like a Patek Philippe watch.
> 
> I'm completely baffled why my  Sabrina can't seem to perform beyond that of a drugstore watch ?



Post #43 - I suspect your second story structure is blocking draft.. 

Our home also has a loft on the North East corner which blocks the Western side, creates a vortex / 'dead zone' , lot's o' snow piles up in that corner..

The Monia is vented through the chimney, correct (?)    Look how much higher up the chimney / roof line is in that picture..


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## chken (Feb 21, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Basically, I clean the area behind the back and top plates, the fire pot and tray and the compartment for the combustion fan. I'm not sue where else I should be cleaning ?
> 
> When you say gaskets, what specifically are you referring to ? The asbestos trim that lines the plate on top of the combustion fan compartment ? What a makeshift design that is !


The horizontal part of the vent pipe, where it comes out of your stove and goes toward the T. That's often where ash accumulates and is hard to clean out.

As for gaskets, I was referring to the mesh surrounding the door frame. Leaky gaskets can cause a poor burn. People recommend using the dollar bill test, i.e. stick a dollar bill in the door and close door, pull out, check all the way around. What doesn't look leaky, may in fact be leaky.

Cleanfire makes an interesting point about your vent termination. Your draft pressure can be affected by wind blowing past your vent termination. Yours is in an unusual spot, right under the soffit. Wind can run down your roof and past the termination. The manual states that your termination should be 24" below the eave, while yours looks less than a foot.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

CleanFire said:


> Post #43 - I suspect your second story structure is blocking draft..
> 
> Our home also has a loft on the North East corner which blocks the Western side, creates a vortex / 'dead zone' , lot's o' snow piles up in that corner..
> 
> The Monia is vented through the chimney, correct (?)    Look how much higher up the chimney / roof line is in that picture..


Interesting how you would know that my Monia is vented through the chimney ?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

chken said:


> The horizontal part of the vent pipe, where it comes out of your stove and goes toward the T. That's often where ash accumulates and is hard to clean out.
> 
> As for gaskets, I was referring to the mesh surrounding the door frame. Leaky gaskets can cause a poor burn. People recommend using the dollar bill test, i.e. stick a dollar bill in the door and close door, pull out, check all the way around. What doesn't look leaky, may in fact be leaky.
> 
> Cleanfire makes an interesting point about your vent termination. Your draft pressure can be affected by wind blowing past your vent termination. Yours is in an unusual spot, right under the soffit. Wind can run down your roof and past the termination. The manual states that your termination should be 24" below the eave, while yours looks less than a foot.



The gaskets around the door seem fine.

As far as the venting is concerned, shouldn't the experts have known how to vent the stove properly ?


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## CleanFire (Feb 21, 2015)

Interesting how you would know that my Monia is vented through the chimney ? 

I work for the NSA.        Nah, you posted it above.

Snow is a great visual indicator of airflow - if you have the means, take some video of the snowfall up at the chimney cap / Southern side of the house, where your exhaust vent is located, and directly above -> further up the roof line, for your info. so you can review for air direction / change / speed.

A smoke pellet test is a great way to verify the stove and piping is air-tight, and observe airflow at the exhaust vent -



Setup the stove in test mode, light up a smoke pellet, dial down the combustion air to 1800, and enjoy the show.

" As far as the venting is concerned, shouldn't the experts have known how to vent the stove properly ?  "

They are, the good folks right in this thread.  ( I'm just a newbie, follow their sage advice. )


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 21, 2015)

Hmm... I read through this entire post, and I don't recall saying anything about my Monia stove being vented through the chimney ? :0)


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## chken (Feb 22, 2015)

So, the thread started at the end of last month, and it's been three weeks since. On the first page, you said the last full clean was 2 weeks before, so in total, you've gone 5 weeks since the vent was cleaned? You could easily have burned a ton and a half in that time period. Plus, whenever you get a bad burn, you send far more black ash up the vent than if you were burning clean, so you're probably way past due for a vent cleaning. If you haven't cleaned the vent, you should do it before anything else. Consider doing the leaf blower trick just to be sure it's clean.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 22, 2015)

chken said:


> So, the thread started at the end of last month, and it's been three weeks since. On the first page, you said the last full clean was 2 weeks before, so in total, you've gone 5 weeks since the vent was cleaned? You could easily have burned a ton and a half in that time period. Plus, whenever you get a bad burn, you send far more black ash up the vent than if you were burning clean, so you're probably way past due for a vent cleaning. If you haven't cleaned the vent, you should do it before anything else. Consider doing the leaf blower trick just to be sure it's clean.


How is that done ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 22, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Hmm... I read through this entire post, and I don't recall saying anything about my Monia stove being vented through the chimney ? :0)



Let me help in your research,  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-with-a-piazzetta-sabrina.140220/#post-1885711


ETA: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...s-a-detailed-description.138737/#post-1863875


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## chken (Feb 22, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> How is that done ?


There are numerous threads explaining the whole process of the LBT, Leaf Blower Trick, plus which leaf blower to buy, etc. Lots of videos embedded on Hearth as well as on Youtube. Just do a search. Bring a piece of your vent pipe to a DIY store find a cheap $40 leaf blower by Homelite, Toro, etc., they're all made by the same company, and walk over to plumbing to find an adapter.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 22, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Let me help in your research,  https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-with-a-piazzetta-sabrina.140220/#post-1885711
> 
> 
> ETA: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...s-a-detailed-description.138737/#post-1863875




I appreciate your link back to the thread, but there's no mentioning that I can see about my Monia stove being vented via the chimney. 

No matter.


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## CleanFire (Feb 22, 2015)

chken said:


> Cleanfire makes an interesting point about your vent termination. Your draft pressure can be affected by wind blowing past your vent termination. Yours is in an unusual spot, right under the soffit. Wind can run down your roof and past the termination. The manual states that your termination should be 24" below the eave, while yours looks less than a foot.



chken, Thank You for that info., observed and confirmed here using an external temp. probe, hugs the wall 4 - 6  inches and creates a downdraft that can be felt. - I learn something new & useful each time I visit, Thanks again.



NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Other than the smaller Piazzetta stove and an oil burning furnace in the basement (which, I only use for heating hot water), I have no other heat sources in the house. There's is a fireplace in an adjacent room that is only used to vent the other pellet stove.



Post #7, first page, in response to Smokey's request for info. - that's how I knew.

Off to shovel, again..


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 22, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I appreciate your link back to the thread, but there's no mentioning that I can see about my Monia stove being vented via the chimney.
> 
> No matter.



Through the fireplace.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 22, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> Through the fireplace.


Ah.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 23, 2015)

I dialed back the pellet feed on the stove this morning. Let's see how that does. 

BTW, my Monia is by no means vented according to text book.

From the back of the stove, it vents vertically for about 6 feet or so, before making a sharp right angle and venting horizontally through the ceiling for about 20 feet - before emptying into the chimney. 

Initially we thought, if either stove was going to have venting problems, it was going to be the Monia.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 23, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I dialed back the pellet feed on the stove this morning. Let's see how that does.
> 
> BTW, my Monia is by no means vented according to text book.
> 
> ...



3" or 4"  and have fun if you are using an ash generator for pellets.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 23, 2015)

SmokeyTheBear said:


> 3" or 4"  and have fun if you are using an ash generator for pellets.




What's an ash generator ?


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## SmokeyTheBear (Feb 23, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> What's an ash generator ?



Pellets of the premium variety run from 4 pounds of ash (high end Douglas fir) .2% to 20 pounds at the 1% limit then we have standard grade and then utility.  That ash has to go somewhere, the ash pan and inside the fire box get a good deal of it the rest gets stuck in the rest of the stoves internal exhaust path and finally in the exhaust venting.

So where is it going in your  greater than 26' of venting?


ETA: Poundage is per ton and says nothing about the volume which is an entirely different critter.

A link to look at that should give you an idea. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2010-pellet-review-its-that-time-again.54880/


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## Pascal_Maertens (Feb 23, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I dialed back the pellet feed on the stove this morning. Let's see how that does.
> 
> BTW, my Monia is by no means vented according to text book.
> 
> ...


Look at this pdf file if you are talking about the installation of your chimney this is a chart that you should consider (the LEE chart) there is a maximum of pipe you can put and also a maximum of horizontal length vs vertical length


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 23, 2015)

chickenman said:


> What you want to do is actually starve the stove of fuel to find the "point of no return".
> Once you have that you just keep creeping flow up.  If the fire runs well then nearly/or goes out during the clean cycle you are nearly there.
> I have no doubt that the exhaust voltage will be too high.  If you find the stove is blowing out the pot you should reduce the exhaust voltage to close to minimum.  Generally these stoves will overdraft if running well so manometer settings are irrelevant.  You need to understand how the fire works and following factory settings will not do that for you.




I dialed down the stove's pellet feed rate to the minimum this morning, and so far it's performed about the best I've seen it.  

Fixed ?  Coincidence ? Hand of God ? Who knows ?


----------



## chken (Feb 23, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I dialed down the stove's pellet feed rate to the minimum this morning, and so far it's performed about the best I've seen it.
> 
> Fixed ?  Coincidence ? Hand of God ? Who knows ?


Do the pellets look smaller? Smaller/shorter pellets will give you more fuel for the same feed rate, so when switching pellet brands just look at them to see if they appear different. You'll need to adjust the air or feed rate if they're much different.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 23, 2015)

chken said:


> Do the pellets look smaller? Smaller/shorter pellets will give you more fuel for the same feed rate, so when switching pellet brands just look at them to see if they appear different. You'll need to adjust the air or feed rate if they're much different.



I've been using the same brand of pellets for the last month = Okanagan Premium (red) softwood.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 24, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Fixed ?  Bit early to say.
> Coincidence ?  Of course not.
> Make sure you note the changes you have make, for what reason, and when.  For future reference.
> I mentioned a little while ago that our stove (which is similar to yours in a lot of ways) is now the most efficient and cleanest independently test unit in the world.  Did we fine tune it with a manometer or fancy therm-cameras?
> ...



At the risk of summoning ill-fate, the stove has performed the best I've ever seen it - over the last 24 hours. 

Not sure how to account for it ? It's been extremely cold over the last 24 hours (-20 this morning). Maybe the low temperate has kept the stove in high mode ? But, then again it was very cold last friday, when it had a relapse.

Maybe is was reducing the pellet feed after all ?


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## chken (Feb 24, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> At the risk of summoning ill-fate, the stove has performed the best I've ever seen it - over the last 24 hours.
> 
> Not sure how to account for it ? It's been extremely cold over the last 24 hours (-20 this morning). Maybe the low temperate has kept the stove in high mode ? But, then again it was very cold last friday, when it had a relapse.
> 
> Maybe is was reducing the pellet feed after all ?


There are too many variables to ever put your finger on one. First, you were maxed on air, meaning you had no more adjustment that way. The alternative is to adjust feed rates, which is what you did. I adjust my feed rate down when I switch to FSUs, since they are a short pellet. You could have had a bag with short pellets, you could have had a bag that had excess moisture. The location of your vent termination is in a tricky spot, subject to wind. Was it a windy night? Did the wind come from a specific direction? When you have a stove for a while, you learn that sometimes you get a fluke occurrence and not to stress out about it. Given that you were maxed on air already, shortening the pellet feed rate can't hurt, in fact it should help give you some headroom to make air adjustments going forward as air adjustments are far easier to assess than feed adjustments.


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## CleanFire (Feb 24, 2015)

chken said:


> Given that you were maxed on air already, shortening the pellet feed rate can't hurt, in fact it should help give you some headroom to make air adjustments going forward as air adjustments are far easier to assess than feed adjustments.



On the Francesca here, which has the same feed / air adjustments, I found that reducing each power level feed rate by .1 to an (odd) number helped - auger feed became more consistent, it allowed for better fine-tuning of flame when burning softwood pellets.  (Hope the tip helps.)


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 24, 2015)

chken said:


> There are too many variables to ever put your finger on one. First, you were maxed on air, meaning you had no more adjustment that way. The alternative is to adjust feed rates, which is what you did. I adjust my feed rate down when I switch to FSUs, since they are a short pellet. You could have had a bag with short pellets, you could have had a bag that had excess moisture. The location of your vent termination is in a tricky spot, subject to wind. Was it a windy night? Did the wind come from a specific direction? When you have a stove for a while, you learn that sometimes you get a fluke occurrence and not to stress out about it. Given that you were maxed on air already, shortening the pellet feed rate can't hurt, in fact it should help give you some headroom to make air adjustments going forward as air adjustments are far easier to assess than feed adjustments.



Point well taken.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 24, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Now that is just silly.
> You sir are over thinking this issue to the max.
> THe base issue is too much fuel, once that is sorted you balance the air for maximum heat extraction before the stove stalls.  The flue is unlikely to have much bearing on the operation and can be easily compensated.
> It is not rocket science, it is rocket stove science; much easier.
> ...




So far, it seems that my stove likes to run on maximum combustion speed, at a reduced pellet feed rate. 

While it may not prove to be the most efficient in terms of burn to heat ratio, it's appears to be running at its best right now.

But, who knows ? Tomorrow Linda Blair may suddenly jump out of the hopper spewing pea soup.


----------



## chken (Feb 25, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> So far, it seems that my stove likes to run on maximum combustion speed, at a reduced pellet feed rate.
> 
> While it may not prove to be the most efficient in terms of burn to heat ratio, it's appears to be running at its best right now.
> 
> But, who knows ? Tomorrow Linda Blair may suddenly jump out of the hopper spewing pea soup.


Check your exhaust temps. That will give you an indication of whether you are burning too hot and throwing heat out the exhaust. In general, on Power 1, my exhaust temp is about 200F, while on Power 5, my exhaust temp can get up to 265F, but is usually lower. If the temps are high, you can raise the room blower fan to draw more heat out of the convection fins, thus lowering the exhaust temps.

Also, if the exhaust temps are too low, under 200F, then you'll get a dirtier burn.


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

chken said:


> Check your exhaust temps. That will give you an indication of whether you are burning too hot and throwing heat out the exhaust. In general, on Power 1, my exhaust temp is about 200F, while on Power 5, my exhaust temp can get up to 265F, but is usually lower. If the temps are high, you can raise the room blower fan to draw more heat out of the convection fins, thus lowering the exhaust temps.
> 
> Also, if the exhaust temps are too low, under 200F, then you'll get a dirtier burn.



My exhaust temps typically stay between the upper 190's and lower 200's. And, I mostly run the room blower on the highest setting of 38. 

Also, I always run my stove on P5 and regulate it by temperature setting.

Good news too. My stove has been running for two plus days straight with no build up so fat. 

Ah, now I just jinxed myself  !


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

chken said:


> Check your exhaust temps. That will give you an indication of whether you are burning too hot and throwing heat out the exhaust. In general, on Power 1, my exhaust temp is about 200F, while on Power 5, my exhaust temp can get up to 265F, but is usually lower. If the temps are high, you can raise the room blower fan to draw more heat out of the convection fins, thus lowering the exhaust temps.
> 
> Also, if the exhaust temps are too low, under 200F, then you'll get a dirtier burn.



I assume that exhaust temperature is based on combustion rate, and cannot be adjusted in any way ?


----------



## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

chickenman said:


> All adjustments will affect flue temp.
> Highest efficiency is obtained with the room air fan at it's max speed.  I don't do that because I find the noise annoying.
> Once you have the fuel feed right (which it sound you are getting close), the room fan as high as you can stand (which you have) then you just keep lowering the exhaust fan until the fire will not function correctly.
> Flue temp readings are irrelevant.  As alway tune by eye.  You want that exhaust fan at the lowest possible setting that maintains the fire.  That way you are slowing the heat transfer out the flue and giving the heat exchanger more time to extract the heat into the house where you want it.
> You have a programmable clean routine I assume.  You need to lower your combustion air flow to the point that you need the purge to clear waste  from the pot, then you have your stove running at it's best.  Most stoves run at around 75% on factory settings.  Our stove runs up to 97%.  Yours is similar to ours so there is no reason why it cannot do the same.




I generally run air fan at it's highest mainly because I have a very large, open structure home. Also, I will give the Piazzetta stoves credit, in that they're are very quiet. 

I'll try your technique of lowering the air fan, and see what happens.


----------



## CleanFire (Feb 25, 2015)

If you use an IR Thermometer aimed at a fixed point inside the stove, you can determine the best fire temp while adjusting air - you are looking for the hottest temp, and good flame.. If the flame becomes lazy, bump up the exhaust air.

Best to do this after the stove has reached operating temp. / been running for awhile..   Give the stove a chance to burn on each adjusted setting, at least 10-15 minutes (or longer) to observe and verify.


----------



## CleanFire (Feb 25, 2015)

Then you would have been absolutely astounded to see the camera tripod set up 24" in front of the room blower outlet, with a external temperature probe affixed, verifying exit temp. of air from the heat exchanger, while I was using the IR Thermometer.  

I understand what you are saying, and agree that visual observation is best - I used these measuring tools to verify that the maximum amount of BTU's were being extracted at a given feed rate, and to allow for finer adjustment using the User Draft and Pellet Feed control settings.

Dialing in the stove this way saved me, a new pellet stove owner, a lot of time in setup, and having empirical data verifying visual observation meant I could 'dial-in' each power level much quicker.


----------



## CleanFire (Feb 25, 2015)

chickenman said:


> The flaw here is the number of variables that can change over time and relying on something you did last year is pointless.



A valid point - if we needed to change from softwood to hardwood pellets, or different brands, I would have to repeat this process over.

What it did help with was determining the 'sweet spot' of the exhaust blower RPM for the stove w/ the vent used here, there is a fixed range exhaust blower values from P2 - P5, that increment consistently.

Now that we've been burning a few months, I know how to 'tweak' a setting visually, but as a new owner (of a used CL stove, that needed repair) setting up for the first time, the 'tech' did help.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

chickenman said:


> The exhaust fan, not the room air fan.


Gotcha


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

CleanFire said:


> A valid point - if we needed to change from softwood to hardwood pellets, or different brands, I would have to repeat this process over.
> 
> What it did help with was determining the 'sweet spot' of the exhaust blower RPM for the stove w/ the vent used here, there is a fixed range exhaust blower values from P2 - P5, that increment consistently.
> 
> Now that we've been burning a few months, I know how to 'tweak' a setting visually, but as a new owner (of a used CL stove, that needed repair) setting up for the first time, the 'tech' did help.


There is simply no way that my stove can run on any other exhaust fan speed than maximum. In fact, if there was a way to raise it even higher I would.
So far, running my stove at maximum fan speed, with a reduction in pellet feed, has been its only savior.


----------



## johninwi (Feb 25, 2015)

I'm going to guess chickenman is going to tell you to reduce your pellet feed further, keep reducing till you need to reduce the exhaust speed.
Keep reducing the feed to a point where you need to reduce the air, then you'll be able to make finer adjustments with the exhaust air speed.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 25, 2015)

johninwi said:


> I'm going to guess chickenman is going to tell you to reduce your pellet feed further, keep reducing till you need to reduce the exhaust speed.
> Keep reducing the feed to a point where you need to reduce the air, then you'll be able to make finer adjustments with the exhaust air speed.



My stove is already on its lowest feed setting.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

This is how the stove is running today. Kind of a lazy orange flame again 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sukAfbIDDuM


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Flame is fine but there is still way too much fuel.  What is the pellet consumption?



I'm not sure what the actual feed rate is ? All I can say is that I have it set at the lowest the stove will allow me too. Something like 6 ?  And I believe it was initially set at 8.2 ?


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

I probably burn through a bag during an 8  to 10 hour period.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

chickenman said:


> That is a ridiculously high fuel consumption for a low setting.
> On low it should use less than a bag in 24 hours.
> Either the stove is not running on low or there is something seriously wrong.
> You need to run the stove manually to force it to run on low.  Not use the thermostat control which will let it cycle up.
> Surely you can tell that it is being overfueled by your last video? Look at that flame, it is huge!  The poor stove just can't consume the fuel fast enough.  It must go on a diet.




I agree there's clearly and air/fuel problem, but I don't know how to correct the situation any more than I have. 

Maybe I'm over estimating my fuel usage, but there's no way I can get 24 hours out of a bag of pellets.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Run the stove on manual, on low.  Be absolutely certain that the stove is running at the lowest feed rate possible.  Empty the hopper and refill with 1.5kgs of pellets.
> If the stove runs out in less than 2.5 hours call your dealer.  There is something wrong that you are not capable of rectifying.  If they can't fix it they are idiots.



I've always run the stove on manual - adjusting the temperature accordingly. 

Over the last few weeks, I've had both the stove shop and the distributor here trying to rectify the problem. 

Basically, I've been told that I have to live with these deficiencies, or remove the stove.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Forget air, concentrate on fuel.




I have tentative plans to speak with someone at Piazzetta's North American headquarters, who's willing to help me get the stove under control. 

Boy, this is turning into a case of who killed JR ?!


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 26, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Just run the 2.5 test and ask them to explain why it has not performed (if it doesn't).  This burn rate will be well within their guidelines.  If it won't do it then they need to fix it so it does.  I will bet my left nut that the problem is in the controls and there is nothing physically wrong with the stove.  Focus on the stove shop, they sold you the bloody thing, it is their responsibility to get it right.
> No point going to Piazzetta unless it is to complain about the stove shop and distributor service.
> If it were me I would be lacing up my arse-kicking boots as we speak, before paying the stove shop a visit.  How old is this thing and what did it cost?




Are ready for this ?

BTW, my apologies to the other members who have already heard this rant.

The first stove was installed in the middle of March 2014.  After that one failed to perform properly during the first month and a half or so, they decided to replace it with another one.  However, given the fact that is was so late  in the season, I barely got around to using it.

Jumping ahead to the onset of this winter, the stove was put to full use in November, wherein it quickly began exhibiting all of the same problems as the first one.

As a result, the stove shop decided to come out and re-vent it differently, which yielded little to no difference.  From there, the distributor got involved, and came out to my home to asses the situation as well. .

The long and short of it is, the stove people basically said that there are challenges with every stove application, and if I wanted to keep the Piazzetta, I had to learn to live with its deficiencies.

In any case, I've more than laced up my boots to kick some arse in their situation. Both the stove shop and the distributor are likely throwing darts at my picture as we speak.

Frankly, I don't think either one of them no sh*t about their product, and that's why I decided to join this forum, and try to find answers to the problem before I drag this thing to the curb and tell then to come and get it once and for all. .


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 27, 2015)

chickenman said:


> This stove is well within warranty and the stove shop did the install so they owe you a total duty of care.
> My strong advice is to get a refund and deal with someone who knows what they are doing.
> THe best stove in the world is useless when it breaks down and no one knows how, or cares, to fix it.
> Just imagine what your level of service will be like once it is out of warranty.  Do you think they will even take your call?
> ...



I spent considerable time on the phone with a forum member, who's also a Piazzetta dealer, troubleshooting my stove's problems. 

In another attempt to take "Hamburger Hill", I spent hours today cleaning the stove, starting with all of the internals - straight out the vent and up the pipe to the vent cap. 

The stove was much dirtier than I expected, since I clean it thoroughly once a week, and the venting was quite dirty as well. 

Let's see what this yields.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Feb 27, 2015)

Hand guest what? I think we are going to get another satisfied Piazzetta customer whit in a week or so max. I just love doing this; proving to all of these stove dealer that 95% of the time the problem is not the stove but just the kind of "/$%?&* service they are not giving must take too much of their precious time.


Hey my name is Pascal Maertens I’m a Piazzetta consultant for the region of Quebec in Canada


I do sale, install and most important also adjust Piazzetta Pellets stove. If you are having problem with your dealer trouble shooting your stove, you got to know me. And by the way, I also own one and yes at first, I had my share of problem too.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 28, 2015)

Pascal_Maertens said:


> Hand guest what? I think we are going to get another satisfied Piazzetta customer whit in a week or so max. I just love doing this; proving to all of these stove dealer that 95% of the time the problem is not the stove but just the kind of "/$%?&* service they are not giving must take too much of their precious time.
> 
> 
> Hey my name is Pascal Maertens I’m a Piazzetta consultant for the region of Quebec in Canada
> ...




At the risk of coming across as an ad endorsement, Pascal proved to be a tremendous resource for me with regard to getting my Piazzetta stove under control. 

Not only has the last 24 hours been the best that I've seen it perform, but thanks to Pascal, I now have a greater understanding as to how it needs to operate.


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## CleanFire (Feb 28, 2015)

Glad to read you have (edit: professional) dealer help w/ your stove - hope it works out well for you.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Feb 28, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Since you have been ask for so long.  It would be nice if you could elaborate on what you have done to improve the stove so that any other Piazetta owners out there can benefit from your triumphs.  Share the knowledge.



For starters, there was far more ash build up in the venting and cap than anyone would have imagined. Going through all of it, and thoroughly cleaning it,  made a huge difference.

Given the fact that the new venting has only been in place for about a month and a half or so, I never would have guessed that so much build up could have occurred. But, then again, my stove has been performing inefficiently for weeks.

Also, coming to understand the right balance of feed rate and airflow, and how certain variables impact it, has been a tremendous help for me  in reconfiguring my stove's parameters. 

But, ultimately being able to Skype with an expert like Pascal, and the opportunity for him to see and hear my concerns firsthand, was invaluable.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Feb 28, 2015)

First I would like to mention that here in Quebec we never hook up the OAK unless there is a mobile home involved and believe me when I read people saying that the reson for X problem is du that the OAK is not hook properly well…hum..

Buy the way I think that in the states you have to hook an AOK by law, am I wrong please let me know.

Back to this customer issue; when we get a lazy flame that produce a lot of soot first question you have to ask is how many bags have you burned? If you have a 3’’ chimney after 50 to 60 you need to clean it, with a 4’’ chimney around 100 bags only that’s the base. When I say cleaning, I mean the complete air flow from OAK to baffle to chimney cap. Only then you will start questioning if you need to adjust

Then for those who knows how to go in the menu parameter ( and understand what they’re doing ) you have to think of;

the triangle of fire and balance fuel and air; more you put fuel ( p5 to p10 ) more you need air ( p16 to p22 ) thats all there was for this particular issue thank you and good nigth if you have any more question i'll be more then glade to answer you.

regards to all of you.


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## Drew65 (Mar 1, 2015)

The fuel rate wasn't as bad as you think. You asked how long on LOW power (p1) he must not have read that and told you he was running at the "lowest feed rate"  but he's was running on P5 the highest btu setting and at that a bag will burn in 8 hours


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 1, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Why not?





Well first; it's a source of cold air coming in the house. Second; just because a European stove have that difference whit most American stove, that the combustion fan is totally adjustable to counter the excess or lack of air due to the insolation or air tightness of the house. If you want to see how far the Europeans are ahead of us, just go and look for pellet silos, auto feeders etc… can’t even get a picture of it on Google Canadian Distributor



chickenman said:


> This stove has a ridiculously high fuel consumption.  Did you fix that problem?



I’ve said ‘’ we are going to get another satisfied Piazzetta customer whit in a week or so max’’. Even do the customer seems to be very satisfied; I know that there is still fine tunings to do. The consummation was very Hi yes. First I reduce the RPM to 2350 it was at 2800 on P5 and caused the pellets to over burn plus the path of air from the stove to the chimney cap to evacuate this air was blocked by the abnormal amount of ash ‘’never clean since November’’ a responsible dealer would of tell him that will saling the unit, no one told him how to, and when to! They are so afraid to louse the customer $$$ will talking about cleaning adjusting etc… when I will be finish, even If the customer doubt about it, he will be running is stove at P3 just like the rest of my customer do, an then just control the temp with the thermostat. Will get there lol… am I over confident, NO I simply know it’s possible.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 2, 2015)

chickenman said:


> You have got it 100% wrong here.  An oak reduces the amount of cold air being drawn into a house by reducing drafts.


 *I’m talking only and always about Piazzetta product* my understanding is a 2'' hole in the wall for the OAK plus a 3'' hole for chimney when the stove reach it's temp and run off you end up with 2 cold pipe in the house? A house is not air tight so there is no need to make more holes in the house and if I was so wrong about this, why don’t I get more calls, unstated of satisfied customer’s recommending Piazzetta to their neighbour and friends? Of course if I go out and install an USSC or other similar product I will put an OAK cause you can’t adjust the air that is push out.





chickenman said:


> Now, now Pascal doesn’t you go starting to believe the PR bulldust from the manufacturers.  No stove is exempt from the laws of physics.  You are doing your customers a huge disservice by not recommending OAKS.  Just because you do not have OAKS to sell does not give you the right to to fabricate nonsensical reasons to not use them.  Every stove should have an oak.  There is no situation where an oak will not improve the heating performance of a stove.  I cannot fathom the stupidity of arguments against OAKS; it is like trying to argue the the Earth is flat!


 did I mention somewhere that it was problematic to install an OAK !?? Every time I give formations or go to formation; some information are exchange between technicians about *Piazzetta products* and every time it get to OAK issue they all agree on one thing, they rarely install any with a Piazzetta an when they do install one *90% of the time it has nothing to do with the customers need, house or stove but it’s the boss decision $$$$. *And by the way I do carry OAK cause I also sale USSC and others pellets stoves and furnace.





chickenman said:


> Wow! What an amazing feature!  Oh that is right my stoves have this as do many others.  IT IS ABSOLUTE RUBBISH TO SUGGEST THAT THE PURPOSE OF VARIABLE COMBUSTION AIR IS REPLACE THE NEED FOR AN OAK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey, If you can tell me what stove do you have that has a variable combustion fan I will Apologise for this particular product for. I’m not a distributor and the stove that are presented to me as North American ones they all have a mechanical trap that most of the time is not even accessible without opening the side walls. Please do so, show me a PDF manual and I will. The Drolet ( SBI ) company in Quebec, have an ECO65 the latest model has also a combustion fan that is adjustable but they won’t give any information on it cause they also sale OAK. When you need to adjust them they just say ‘’ put an OAK it going to do the same job and you will make more money’’ and the customer as to pay more, Y*ou are disrespectful of other people opinions. My credibility I Hearn it; one customer at a time, with honesty and priority in customer satisfaction, and this sometime irate people that are always thinking $$$ cause they can’t follow or don’t understand why are we doing things differently. It’s called evolution, in the pellets stove industry the European have few years in advance *




chickenman said:


> On a lighter note; yes you will succeed no doubt.  It does sound like you are approaching the problem the same as me (reducing fuel and air).  Just with the unit control knowledge that I do not have (having never seen a Piazetta).
> 
> I totally agree about the poor dealer advice.  I tell all my customers to check their flues weekly until they appreciate how often they need to clean.  To ignore it for months is nuts.  That is why I refuse to sell inbuilt stoves because I know users will not look after them and that will be all MY fault.


* No doubt you seem to me like a good dealer or else why would you be her helping people. We might have divergent opinion on how things should be done; the important one is the result, customer’s satisfaction. *






chickenman said:


> It sounds to me that the controls you are working with are too restrictive if everyone ends at the same setting.  Maybe the company should do some research into fully variable settings.  This is especially useful when changing fuel types.


Sorry sorry monsieur, please ask more question before you go and … yes I’m making a big story about the Piazzetta stove for this you can kill me, I confess. But Piazzetta have more than one model, they all have 5 Power level and if you sale the correct size stove for the correct size house and also the customer habits; is he more 20c or 26c it will happened that most of the time you’ll end up running your stove at P3 if you sold the good one. It is so much easier for the customer to remember; if it’s cold increase if it’s hot decrease the thermostat. Hey this is in general and for the fuel type no problem with a Piazzetta they can burn just any kind of pellet from soft to hard but only when they are set properly in general adding 5 pascal to all the default setting for the Quebec region. Depends also what version of firmware you are using.


Hey, why don’t you try one then you’ll talk like me


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 2, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Customers trust what you say.  There is no doubt.  you are absolutely wrong.  As I said every stove is improved with an OAK.
> 
> 
> It is not a matter of opinion.  It is absolute fact.  Every stove should have an OAK.
> ...


lol.. so as I can see you are only bitching a product and a technology that you just don’t no noting of,  your pdf manual is just how to hook up a OAK on a cheap stove (Cheap Heat Solution) lol... I’m not talking going Cheap I’m talking Piazzetta you are being stubborn if you want to talk cheap stuff you should open a post on this cause if I recall this post is called Anyone with a Piazzetta Sabrina ? So how can you just try to help if you don’t even want to know how this stove is running when I give formation to old guys like you whitch are stuck in the old age technology, an then they are abble to install a Piazzetta.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 2, 2015)

I think they have a very good coverage, well where it's needed.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 2, 2015)

Since I started this thread, I feel the need to intervene before things turn into anymore of a brouhaha here. 

I am extremely grateful for those who took the time to participate and help me in my frustration, starting with chKen and Smokey the Bear, leading up to chickenman and Pascal, who was most gracious in spending time over Skype helping me with my stove. 

For the record, the Piazzetta is a beautifully designed stove, but like many high brow items, it's a bit persnickety and needs a little extra care and know-how. Know that I have a better understanding of what it needs to work properly, which may be the case for a lot of other brands, it seems to be working well. Again, I wouldn't have been able to reach this point without the help of this forum. 

As for Piazzetta as a company, its affiliate here in the USA and the stove shop that sold it to me and installed it, save for a couple of individuals, they couldn't manage an f'in out house. 

In any case, what I think Pascal is trying to say, in view of the fact that Piazzetta is manufactured in Italy, and undoubtedly developed and tested in that region, they may not be as well suited for other climates such as North America and other parts of the world - right out of the box. And, therefore, they need a bit of tweaking in order to adapt to our conditions. I liken it to a high performance European car first trying to adapt to the driving conditions in the USA. 

In  any event case, I tend to agree with that parallel, since that's how my stove behaved from the get go.

The goal here is to help out newbies like myself, and stay in joyous pellet pulchritude !


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 2, 2015)

chickenman said:


> I have said many times that I do not know the stove.





chickenman said:


> I live in the real world.  Performance is what counts not price.  Our stoves outperform Piazetta at half the price.



I’m trying to be as professional as I can be, so tell me.. in real world have you seen one? When have you tried one? How did you compare. I just think that you are making your mind on Piazzetta by the comment customers leave on this forum. If we stay here that’s all we are going to ear is unsatisfied customer, and this is going true this entire forum, from just any brand of stove. This is why Forums exist.




chickenman said:


> It is not the fault of the stove it is the service.  What if you went on holidays?


 finally we agree on something, we have qualified personal and I have holidays just like everybody.






chickenman said:


> Now that is just nonsense. You may sell, install, and troubleshoot stoves.  I design, build, test, redesign, rebuild, retest,sell, install, and troubleshoot stoves.  WE have spent over $100,000 on testing, over $50,000 on software development.  I spend huge amounts of time talking with engineers either at the factory or remotely discussing changes and improvements.  Have you done any of this?


 no need to, the company dose all that and more, are rep was telling us all that and even, look like they all have the same speech. Sorry but this is not new for me I ear dose kind of speech all the time they all have the best product in the world.




chickenman said:


> Do you produce your own fuel?


 I don’t grow food to burn it, I eat food and I’m against all mono culture that is destroying the planet, have you ever herd of; beef effect or Monsanto. In my region the pellets are produce from recycling wood from the wood industry.




chickenman said:


> We are from the country.  People here are not rich.  They could not afford a stove like the Piazzetta.


 same situation her but who am I to say that my customer don’t have the money, I offer them the choice they decide whether they want cheap stuff, expensive stuff or just luxurious stuff I offer the service.  




chickenman said:


> be aware that there is only one dealer in Canada who can help you make it work because no one else has any idea


 how many do you have ?





chickenman said:


> They are illegal to sell in Australia because their emissions are too high.




http://www.piazzetta.com/products/sy/p963/

ArrayEfficiency : 91.7 %
EPA Emissions : 1.97 grams/hour <<<<<<<<<< what is your emissions and what model give me some fact, documents ! 
Room heating capacity (min-max) : 700 - 2600 sq ft.
BTU output (min-max) : 13,192 – 47,955
Hopper Capacity : 66 lbs
Burn rate (min-max) : 1.60 – 5.80 lbs/hr
Power adjustable (positions) : 5
Exhaust Vent Height/Location : 7.28 in
Dimensions WxDxH : 22.5 x 21 x 46 in
Total weight : 434 lbs
Multifuoco System : dual blower
Manufactured/mobile home approved<<<<<<< there is an OAK adaptor


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 2, 2015)

chickenman said:


> My point exactly.  Nothing wrong with the stove, the problem is with the service.
> 
> 
> No this is where you are wrong and are being hoodwinked by the hype.  It is just a machine which needs to be operated correctly.  THe fact that it is troublesome is entirely to do with the service not some namby pamby tripe about thoroughbred design.
> ...




I have an OAK in place


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 2, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Do yourself a favour Pascal, use the OAK, it will make the stove even better.  I do not sell any stoves without an OAK.


Seriously, a friend of mine as the same stove and did install an OAK and we found no significant difference. probaly not installed properly you will say but anyway in my case I have none an dont need one my stove is realy good like this.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 16, 2015)

*UPDATE
*
The stove is still running great ! 

There, now I've gone ahead and jinxed myself


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 17, 2015)

chickenman said:


> Excellent, well done.
> What were the changes you made which have made the difference?



First and foremost, knowing how and when to adjust the stove's parameters, has been the most significant improvement. But, frequent, periodic cleaning is also extremely important too.  

And, when I say cleaning, I'm referring to near disassembly of the stove and all of its venting. 

For whatever reason, the Sabrina requires far more routine cleaning than the Monia.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 17, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> First and foremost, knowing how and when to adjust the stove's parameters, has been the most significant improvement. But, frequent, periodic cleaning is also extremely important too.
> 
> And, when I say cleaning, I'm referring to near disassembly of the stove and all of its venting.
> 
> For whatever reason, the Sabrina requires far more routine cleaning than the Monia.


theres no reason for the Sabrina not to act like the Monia. If since we have made those changes, there is still much dust to clean out of the venting, you may want to lower the RPM of the exhaust fan; the more RPM also means, more ash going up in baffle air path and in the chimney restricting the air flow. Remember the pellets should only wobble a bit. Besides auto cleaning, you should not see pellets going over the combustion grate and it’s not like there all wobbling only a few of them. I would say lower by 50 RPM at the time and be aware not to go to low remember that black soot we do not want that.


Good luck


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 17, 2015)

chickenman said:


> I think that if you have been able to tame your stove voracious appetite you will find that the cleaning will lessen.  I always tell my customers to start with weekly checks of the venting to get an appreciation of how much build up there.  Usually they can then back it off to bi-monthly.  I would recommend having a vacuum cleaner to suck out the firebox and up into the air channels every couple of days.
> It only takes a few seconds and it saves the bulk of the dust making it into the back of the stove.  This cuts back on the big cleans.


I've noticed since I've been able adjust the combustion and feed rates, there's been far less build up in ash in both the stove and venting. 
I clean the fire pot and ashtray every 2 or 3 days, but now that the stove is running properly, I don't feel the need to pull off the back plate or open up the combustion fan compartment for cleaning for 10 days or so. 
As far as the external venting is concerned, this time around there was hardly any ash build-up in the elbow or stack.


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Mar 17, 2015)

Pascal_Maertens said:


> theres no reason for the Sabrina not to act like the Monia. If since we have made those changes, there is still much dust to clean out of the venting, you may want to lower the RPM of the exhaust fan; the more RPM also means, more ash going up in baffle air path and in the chimney restricting the air flow. Remember the pellets should only wobble a bit. Besides auto cleaning, you should not see pellets going over the combustion grate and it’s not like there all wobbling only a few of them. I would say lower by 50 RPM at the time and be aware not to go to low remember that black soot we do not want that.
> 
> 
> Good luck


The Sabrina is getting close to the performance of the Monia  I only say that it requires more attention, because it's in use 80% to 90% more than the Monia is.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Mar 18, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> I've noticed since I've been able adjust the combustion and feed rates, there's been far less build up in ash in both the stove and venting.
> I clean the fire pot and ashtray every 2 or 3 days, but now that the stove is running properly, I don't feel the need to pull off the back plate or open up the combustion fan compartment for cleaning for 10 days or so.
> As far as the external venting is concerned, this time around there was hardly any ash build-up in the elbow or stack.


I do also talk about days sometime but it’s a matter of pounds how many bags or pound per day are you using? Then you know that you can also adjust the pellets feed at all off your power level from .05 sec. to 12 sec. you can also play with it that’s what I call fine tuning

And remember; To run a stove very hi, will give you more heath faster, burn xx of pellets, get the thermostat to shut down the stove more often ( the igniter will need to be replace on a shorter period of time ) and once the stove gets cold it takes more time and more pellets just to start that blower again ( calculate the time it takes you’ll be surprise ) and in some cases the temperature will not even have time to raise in the rooms that are far away from the stove.

What I suggest is to make 3 different adjustments from p3 p4 p5 and remember that p1 and p2 have no self-cleaning

Then once you will be all set, then running the stove at a lower level, say p3 for example. On a regular winter day it will give time to raise the temperature in the rooms that are far away from the stove, run on a longer period without shutting down on the end it also take less pellets.

(( on energy saver, Once the thermostat detect that it as reach the proper temperature, the stove shuts down and gets cold then, when the thermostat gets a new demand, it takes almost 30 min before the convection blower starts and 40 min before it give proper heath this is where pellets fly’s out giving no heath. This is why in some cases when the exterior temperature drop considerably I’ll suggest not to run the energy saving mode it will run ‘’Hi Low’’ in a very well insulated house this will probably make less difference. ))

And remember if you get lost in there just contact me again, it will be my pleasure to help.

regards


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Nov 25, 2015)

Hi All -

The cool weather has been well under way up here in northern Massachusetts, and I've been using my Sabrina stove quite frequently. You know, the stove that nearly drove me to complete insanity last winter. 

Well, at the risk of jinxing myself, I'm pleased to report, that the stove has been performing exceptionally well this season. In fact, I've been able to reset the parameters pretty much back to the factory settings, with absolutely no issues regarding poor combustion, clinkers or anything else for that matter. After 2 or 3 days of solid use, regardless if I use premium hardwood or soft wood pellets, the only thing left in the burn pot and ashtray, is a fine, powdery ash.  

As I joked in another thread, there's the phenomenon called horse-whispering, and there's also what I now believe to be stove-whispering. Because aside from all of the great advice I received from the members of this forum (especially Pascal), something unexplained has put matters to rights with this stove. 

Ok, enough Shirley MacLaine for now.


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## Pascal_Maertens (Nov 25, 2015)

NorthoftheQuabbin said:


> Hi All -
> 
> The cool weather has been well under way up here in northern Massachusetts, and I've been using my Sabrina stove quite frequently. You know, the stove that nearly drove me to complete insanity last winter.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## NorthoftheQuabbin (Dec 3, 2015)

All along I've been told that I should only be burning premium softwood pellets in the Sabrina. However, I've been experiencing great results using premium hardwood pellets; namely Geneva. 

Anyone care to weigh in?


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## Pascal_Maertens (Dec 3, 2015)

naaah! your stove will performe better with soft wood this is only physic, the way Piazzetta stove are made and work this is what make it better at burning soft wood. The air coming from under the combustion Grate will clean your ash easier, the grate will remane clean if your stove is set with soft wood

if you need to optimize your stove or would like to understand a little more about how it work please feel free to drop me a message but first I would suggest you to go an read the Sticky post I made for Piazzetta  ; 

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/piazzetta-pellets-stove-a-to-z-recommendations.147362/ 

regards
Pascal Maertens


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