# Need help: Unemployed, but have a kent tile stove.  Now what?



## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

So here's the short story:

My girlfriend and I were both laid-off recently, within a few months of each other.  To save money, I rented my house out, and moved into her's (for love if she asks, but really because mine was more marketable).  We now live in her 1920's stone ranch house. 1 story - aprox 1500 sqft, with a semi-finished basement.  Heating bills (Natural Gas radiator) in winter are in the $300+/mo range (old house/crap insulation), so obviously looking to find an alternative

My house (the one that I rented out) had an old wood stove in the basement that I had cleaned the holy bat-snot out of, but had, literally, never used. 

So, I went and pulled the wood stove out, and now it's sitting on my porch.  After lurking on this site, I now know it's a Kent Tile Wood Stove, circa 1985.  

Currently, our fireplace has a vented NG log-set in it.  I'd like to take the log-set out and replace it with the Kent wood-stove.  I've got plenty of clearance on all sides, and the original chimney is the only decent place to run a wood-stove in this house.

I'm thinking that I need to have a plumber come and pull that out and secure the NG lines, then I'll put the Kent in the fireplace.  Install double-lined chimney pipe to the top of the existing chimney (cap etc), and probably a blower (suggestions appreciated).  

What am I missing, and what should I be looking for?  Sadly, budget is a huge issue for us, so I'm stuck with the Kent Tile (even though I know an insert would be better).  I'm ok with making an investment to make it safe and warm, but I can't afford to waste money.


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 31, 2013)

How about wood?   If you have to buy your wood, the savings will be much less.  Also figure in some cleaning (chimney brushing) as the wood will have a good deal of water still in it and the stove won't be burning the smoke.  I think the tile stoves were supposed to be fairly clean burners when run with dry wood and some experience.  

Often, you can get a better return on investment if the first step you take is to seal up all the small holes that air leaks out of the house.  This can often be done with a few tubes of caulk.  Then work on insulating the existing house.  If you want to burn wood, it might be worth while to do the research, get some wood on hand and burn next year.  

Matt


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## jeff_t (Oct 31, 2013)

The Kent Tile Fire was a pretty revolutionary stove. Read up on it in this thread. It is pretty detailed.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/kent-tile-fire-and-sherwood-stoves.60702/

An insulated liner in the chimney is what you need.

Neat looking house, nice, big fireplace.


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## branchburner (Oct 31, 2013)

Welcome to the forums.

As a supplemental source of dry wood, you should be able to scrounge free hardwood pallets and lumber scraps on craigslist (don't burn the small cutoffs exclusively, only for starting fires and mixing in with larger splits). You may also be able to find fully seasoned branch-wood in the 3" to 6" range that is rejected by others as "not real firewood" -- you will find it produces BTUs that are very real if the wood is very dry.

Rather than buying a blower, try placing a $10 fan at the base of the stove, pointing into the hearth -- this will bring cool floor into the area behind the stove and help it flow out over the top. For the rest of the house, a fan or two in doorways blowing cool air toward the warm room.

Even with the stove as far out of the fireplace as possible, that exterior stone chimney is going to try to rob as much heat as it can -- you are going to want some kind of blockoff plate to help prevent that. Good luck!


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## Nick Mystic (Oct 31, 2013)

Since you say money is tight it would make the most sense for you to do as much of the work on your own if you are handy with that sort of thing. You should start by cleaning the chimney and fireplace. There's no telling what you'll find in there. It could be relatively clean since you've been using gas logs or it could have decades of creosote built up in the chimney and smoke chamber. You can get brushes and rods for under $100. Installing an insulated stainless steel flex liner isn't that difficult if you have a pretty straight shot through the damper assembly in the fireplace. Usually you have to remove the damper door and cut a larger opening through the damper opening, which renders the fireplace inoperative to use as a fireplace in the future. I would set the stove outside the fireplace opening as much as possible to throw the most heat into the house. Your biggest expense will be the liner kit and any hearth extension work if needed to meet clearances in front of the stove.  You could get by with a budget around $600 - $700 on the liner kit if you only need 20 feet or so of liner. Good luck.


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 31, 2013)

First, that is a beauiful house-wow!

Now...having been there done that just recently with the wood situation...

The suggestion of scavanging hardwood cut offs or pallets is a good one on a budget.  We made it through two years of less than seasoned wood with ecobricks mixed with the wood, but really, anything dry enough to get hot and help the wood dry fast in the firebox so you can keep the temps up in there will work.  Around here you get pallets by luck if the guys that resell them don't get them first though.

If you have the space I'd start scavanging any wood you find by the road to start building a stock if you plan to split your own.  If you're buying, look for good deals-I don't know where you are, but sometimes you'll find pine/softwood pretty cheap.  It burns faster but also seasons quicker-and if you're both home, reloading more often probably won't be a deal breaker.  I've seen pine advertised at 1/4 or less than hardwoods, already split, because people still believe the old wives tale that it will burn your house down.


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## Ashful (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't know your personal situation, but can say that my girlfriend (now my wife) and I were both laid off within five minutes of each other, Oct. 22, 2002.  Moreover, thousands of other people who did exactly what we did, had been laid off in our area that fall, so we knew there was ZERO chance of getting new jobs in any short period of time.  We handled it the same as you, her moving into my house, and just cutting expenses as drastically as we could.  I knew our family on either side wouldn't let us starve or go homeless, but beyond that, nothing was known/secure.  So, I don't know your exact family situation, but I've been in similar circumstances.

I would think long and hard before pursuing this wood stove thing.  Your heating bill is $300 / month, which would amount to $2100/year, here.  I suspect that with some insulating, plastic on windows, caulking, and very judicious use of the thermostat, you can cut that down to maybe $1500/year.  Depending on your hot water hookup, and success with the wood thing, you might lower your bill to $500 for this year, meaning you saved $1000.  But, I can't imagine getting this rig installed and getting yourself set up with the 3 - 4 cords of seasoned wood you're going to need, for less than $1000, this late in the game.

Long-term, heating with wood is a huge savings.  But in the short term, it's going to be a loss, due to the up-front investment.  You need to think short-term right now, and spend your time looking for jobs... not installing a stove!  This is just my opinion, based on the very little bit of information I have on the situation.


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## Tenn Dave (Oct 31, 2013)

Joful said:


> I don't know your personal situation, but can say that my girlfriend (now my wife) and I were both laid off within five minutes of each other, Oct. 22, 2002.  Moreover, thousands of other people who did exactly what we did, had been laid off in our area that fall, so we knew there was ZERO chance of getting new jobs in any short period of time.  We handled it the same as you, her moving into my house, and just cutting expenses as drastically as we could.  I knew our family on either side wouldn't let us starve or go homeless, but beyond that, nothing was known/secure.  So, I don't know your exact family situation, but I've been in similar circumstances.
> 
> I would think long and hard before pursuing this wood stove thing.  Your heating bill is $300 / month, which would amount to $2100/year, here.  I suspect that with some insulating, plastic on windows, caulking, and very judicious use of the thermostat, you can cut that down to maybe $1500/year.  Depending on your hot water hookup, and success with the wood thing, you might lower your bill to $500 for this year, meaning you saved $1000.  But, I can't imagine getting this rig installed and getting yourself set up with the 3 - 4 cords of seasoned wood you're going to need, for less than $1000, this late in the game.
> 
> Long-term, heating with wood is a huge savings.  But in the short term, it's going to be a loss, due to the up-front investment.  You need to think short-term right now, and spend your time looking for jobs... not installing a stove!  This is just my opinion, based on the very little bit of information I have on the situation.


 Joful. I think your advice is right on the money.  Top priority should be on cash flow, not long term investment.


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you everybody for your replies, and the compliments on the house.    It is a cool old house and has some fun things that you don't find in new construction, like a spiral staircase in the living room that goes down to the basement.

To the points above:  I live in central PA, have a F-250 long bed pickup, chainsaw, and access to a bunch of private land that has beautiful seasoned hardwood.  So even though it's not going to be totally seasoned, I am confident that I can find plenty of downed trees that aren't rotten to burn this winter, and standing dead that I can split and use next winter.  So wood shouldn't be an issue (I was actually going to go out and start cutting this weekend).  Granted the house is on a hill, so it's going to be a trail of tears to move the wood up from the driveway to the house, but my girlfriend thinks I'm part sherpa already so no worries.

@EatenByLimestone, @Joful - Regarding the house: over the last year and a half, I actually have done quite a bit of work on it already. I pumped about 18 yds of blow-in insulation into the attic, re-pointed the mortar on the outside of the house, resurfaced the flat roof, and caulked all of the windows (which desperately need to be replaced).  In addition, I wrapped all of the hot water lines, cleaned the radiators (air compressor and vacuum (totally nasty) and all of the windows have plastic both on the inside and outside.  Installed a new storm door etc etc.  Not much more that I can do to insulate the house or make it more efficient right now (we already unplug anything that's not being used etc).  I'm handy, and I like projects so fortunately, I did the more expensive projects (insulation, roof) when I had a job, so they're already done.  Sadly, however, the $300/mo figure is last years bill (with most of the above improvements already done) when we weren't here the entire time.  

I'm figuring that since I have the stove and can get free wood, that I'm only going to be on the hook for a plumber (NG lines), chimney sweep ( I would like a professional to look at the chimney since it's 100 years old), chimney pipe & cap (16 feet from base of fire place to 2 feet above top of chimney),  and maybe building a hearth extension.  So the short-term investment isn't too scary for me and I can afford to front $600-700.  

Here are a couple of more pictures, so you can see what I'm working with.  I'm thinking that I'm going to have to pull of the stone cap that's on the chimney already, and trim the tree above it, but otherwise the chimney looks like a straight shot and fairly easy installation.

@jeff_t - thanks for the link, lots of really good info.  Makes me feel better about the old stove.


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## eclecticcottage (Oct 31, 2013)

Ok, as far as the windows goes, check out wavyglass.org and post up on the forums.  I imagine Jade will have suggestions but I'm sure others will too.  There are a lot of folks that believe old windows are worth saving, and it seems you're handy enough to be able to fix them up.  I am betting they are original wood sashes that can be restored and won't be nearly as bad as people think they are.  There are folks here with old homes that can vouch for this!

Back to the wood-you're on a good track!  Get stuff cut and split asap, and scavanging up some pallets or cut offs won't hurt.  If there's standing dead pine in there, you might find it really is dry enough to burn no problem, at least we found that with beetle kill here.  Stuff that's down might have been absorbing water from the dirt, so it might not be as dry as you would think.


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

Wow, interesting site!  Had no idea that was out there.  The windows are definitely a problem, but unfortunately, nothing that I'm going to be able to tackle until next spring.  

I'm thinking that I'm a minimum of two weeks away from having this installed, so I'm going to try to spend the time (which I have a bunch of) doing wood.  I'm going to be looking for downed trees that are off the ground to minimize the wet, rot, mushroom factor.  Good idea with pallets. I'll start hitting up the big box stores (lowes, home depot, walmart etc) and see if I can grab some of theirs.  Was going to grab a few anyway for the base of a wood pile until I can build something more permanent.


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

> _Even with the stove as far out of the fireplace as possible, that exterior stone chimney is going to try to rob as much heat as it can -- you are going to want some kind of blockoff plate to help prevent that. Good luck!_



@branchburner  - Do you have any suggestions for a blockoff plate?  Not quite sure what I'm getting into for that.  I'm imagining a piece of cement-board with a hold in the center that I put the chimney through to block the heat from going up the chimney, but that's just a guess.


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## dougand3 (Oct 31, 2013)

I put a Kent Tile Fire in a relative's house where I stay often. Installed in the masonry FP with 6" liner. And I made a blower for it - 5 x 80mm computer fans in a metal bracket. Installed bracket in lower rear, fans blowing between firebox and tile, out the front. I found it worked ok - but not overwhelmingly better than just the strong convection current the stove generates. Wouldn't bother again. Try branchburner's idea of fan blowing in.


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## SteveKG (Oct 31, 2013)

From the photo, the chimney "looks" clean. Obviously, an in-person look will tell more. But I think you can be optimistic there. Go for it, you have plenty of free time, so to speak, to work with the stove and perhaps cut down those bills for heat


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## jeff_t (Oct 31, 2013)

You are looking at liners like this, right?
http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/flexible-liner-kits.php

I have no experience with them, and have no idea of the best place to buy. Lots here have installed their own.

I got thru my first winter with standing dead white ash. Not the best, but better than any 'seasoned' wood I could buy.


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

> You are looking at liners like this, right?
> http://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/flexible-liner-kits.php



@jeff_t - I think I misunderstood your first post.  No I wasn't looking at insulated chimney liners, I was actually going to go with chimney pipe from Lowe's
http://www.lowes.com/pd

Would I need a liner in addition to the pipe or instead of?


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## branchburner (Oct 31, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> I'm imagining a piece of cement-board with a hold in the center that I put the chimney through to block the heat from going up the chimney.



Sure, or sheet metal:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/

As for venting, a single flexible stainless liner top-to-bottom within the chimney may be easier than sections of rigid pipe. It can be purchased already insulated, or you could try to get away with just insulating the bottom section and the top run above the roof line by yourself, with rock wool (or perlite, or a combo of them)... a cheaper method that may be effective but not to code,


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## Dave A. (Oct 31, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> Would I need a liner in addition to the pipe or instead of?



Instead of. SS Liner is the typical means of venting a stove or insert through chimney inside a fireplace.


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

branchburner said:


> Sure, or sheet metal:
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/
> 
> As for venting, a single flexible stainless liner top-to-bottom within the chimney may be easier than sections of rigid pipe. It can be purchased already insulated, or you could try to get away with just insulating the bottom section and the top run above the roof line by yourself, with rock wool (or perlite, or a combo of them)... a cheaper method that may be effective but not to code,



Block off plate certainly looks doable.  Reading the post now - Thanks!  The liner seems like a much easier install than doing the rigid pipe (and a bit cheaper too).


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## gldntrout (Oct 31, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Instead of. SS Liner is the typical means of venting a stove or insert through chimney inside a fireplace.



Would I just connect the stove pipe to the Liner then?


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## blades (Oct 31, 2013)

Welcome,  You can pull that ng line in the fire place your self not hard. Just need to back track on where its coming from, find a convenient joint/connection between the fire place and the main line its tapped off of. Shut down ng  if there isn't a valve further back on that line to shut it down. You might need a appropriate size nipple and you will need a cap or a plug depending on where the fireplace line is disconnected ( black iron, not the galvanized stuff) you will also need a small jar or can of plumbing joint sealer rated for gas lines. Pretty self evident after that. check your work with some water & dish detergent mix ( snitch childrens blowing bubble stuff) soak your work down with that looking for bubbles (leak ) no bubbles good to go. A couple of 12" or so pipe wrenches will be needed also one for each side of what you are taking apart ( don't want to twist the backend of a pipe loose at its connection point)  Hope this isn't too muddy.


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## Dave A. (Oct 31, 2013)

If the stove is going inside the fireplace, you wouldn't need any stove pipe.  At the end of the liner you would attach an appliance connector which would fit into the flue collar on the stove.

Edit: If you go with ss liner, you should be able to get a good price on a kit if you shop around.  Don't recall the length you mentioned but iirc it was less than 15' which is at the low end in cost of liner kits.  I got mine from ebay (Rockford sells @ lower prices there).  But from what others have said, you can bargain with the dealers.  I would say uninsulated, shoot for around $250 or less, maybe at most $200 more for insulated.

Re-edit: Insulated is recommended, particularly with exterior chimney, as you have, and may be required, especially if you don't have a clay liner or it is cracked or damaged at all, or if ins. co. or inspector insists - a possibility.

You need to check/know dimensions for size of present fireplace flue, flue collar on stove.  Size of fireplace opening (is that stove going to fit? particularly height-wize)

Re: block-off plate most use appx 24 gauge, and top plate will usually come with liner kit.  Unless you permanently remove flag top, you won't need a cap with kit.  But will probably be best to at least temporarily remove it to install liner and top plate.


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## blades (Oct 31, 2013)

Different subject: if that fireplace was a fireplace originally   then that flue is likely a fair size and slipping a liner( perferably insulated)  down it should not be particularly difficult ( smoke shelf is the hard spot).  You will need to fab a block off plate at bottom and one for top , 10-14 gauge steel sheet on bottom, stainless same spec for top. Might have to get a shop to put a 6" (?) hole in it for you. digging on the net or library should get you enough info to be more than real dangerous . A pair of band clamps for either end of the liner to keep it in place. some fireplace brick cement ( sold in caulking gun cartridges) to seal around block off on bottom same thing but mortar on top. A extra body wouldn't hurt either with the liner. ( Real simple over view of what is required) give us some dimensions of that flue and we can be more specific. Dave A beat to some of this as well.


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## Ashful (Oct 31, 2013)

Okay... you're resolved to do this.  Our fireplace situations are very similar, so I can offer some advice here.  I have a flagstone chimney topper, like yours, and I was able to keep it.  However, since the liner sticks up a bit taller than the chimney stack (gotta fit the crown collar onto the liner at the top), and my installer wanted to see a certain minimum gap between the top of the liner and the bottom of the flagstone, we ended up raising the flagstone by one extra course of brick:




It looks like you have no clay liner in your flue, and the porridge used to line your chimney is not 100%.  If this is the case, the typical solution is a blanket-wrapped flex liner.  This plan also satisfies any concerns (common with old houses) over wood timber placed too close to the outside of your masonry chimney, such as rafters at the roof protrusion.

_edit:  in response to the comments by others above, about stove pipe / chimney / liners... typical is a flex liner (most often blanket-wrapped when installed in an old/questionable chimney) from crown down to a block-off plate.  Then install an 'appliance adaptor' on bottom of flex liner, below block off plate.  Run single wall black stove pipe up from your stove to this appliance adaptor.  Done.  Clean.

*Stovepipe*:  steel, usually painted black, used for connecting stove to liner or chimney.  not designed to go inside existing chimney

*Liner*:  usually stainless, designed to go inside an existing chimney

*Chimney pipe:*  insulated, usually stainless, designed for stand-alone use, or inside a non-chimney chase (or inside a seriously faulty chimney)_


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## akbear (Oct 31, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> There are a lot of folks that believe old windows are worth saving



I just made this point the other day on another thread, in the last few years studies are finally admitting that properly sealed single pane windows with storms can be more effective than doublepane windows (especially when compared to bottom of the line vinyl windows that most people slap on).  And furthermore, most replacement windows are installed where storm windows would be (onto the exterior of the wall) which doesn't help matters much.

If you want a real eye-opener (or intend to replace windows at some time in the future) download a copy of RESFEN  http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/tools_directory/software.cfm/ID=150/pagename=alpha_list_sub.  On that you can play around with different window types to find out what is a good investment and what is simply hype that will never payback (or at least not in it's expected service life and before seals are expected to fail, which actually with some of the fill gasses they leak a certain percentage per year right from the start).  It's also interesting to find out things such as will low-e glass be a help or a loss (at my latitude low-e glass is a heat loss even on north facing windows compared to the solar gain).  

The whole window business has gotten to be such a scam, and even things that are supposed to help often don't (for instance, energy star and manufacturers are biased towards the southern states where air conditioning is the primary cost and our recommended u-values don't even come close to what Canada suggests for similar conditions and locations and both pale to what Europe requires), so do your homework and don't let some salesperson hook you on some pie in the sky promise.


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## EatenByLimestone (Oct 31, 2013)

My first year I used pallets to get me though the winter.  I found a hot tub/pool dealer had lots of large, oak pallets for free.  Use a sawzall to cut them up.  I was stupid and used my chainsaw and ruined a few chains.  

Matt


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## rowerwet (Oct 31, 2013)

check craigslist, you may get lucky on stuff you need to install the stove


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## gldntrout (Nov 1, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your very helpful comments, tips and suggestions!  It is amazing how much clearer this is to me now, and I feel like I have a solid plan in place.  I'm going to start acquiring materials and stacking wood.  Hopefully I'll have some updates for you all pretty soon, and I'll keep you up to date on the progress.  

Thanks for the info on the windows @akbear @eclecticcottage .  I'll start digging into this info and maybe add it to the project list once the stove is set.


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## gldntrout (Nov 1, 2013)

Joful said:


> Okay... you're resolved to do this.  Our fireplace situations are very similar, so I can offer some advice here.  I have a flagstone chimney topper, like yours, and I was able to keep it.  However, since the liner sticks up a bit taller than the chimney stack (gotta fit the crown collar onto the liner at the top), and my installer wanted to see a certain minimum gap between the top of the liner and the bottom of the flagstone, we ended up raising the flagstone by one extra course of brick



I suspect that I'm going to have to having to raise the chimney topper as well.  There's not much clearance, and having it off will make feeding the insulated liner that much easier.  Any advantage (besides aesthetics) to putting it back on?  It's stone so it will involve cement, mortar etc and it's quickly becoming a bad season for setting stone.  I'm thinking if I have to pull it off, I'll let the pieces sit someplace dry so it doesn't get mildew and nasty and replace it in the spring.  

Also, I've got that tree that has grown quite a bit since the fireplace was last used.  Any thoughts on how much clearance I'll need to cut it back?  That picture is a bit deceiving, the tree has branches that are probably within 4 ft of the chimney.  I was going to cut it back some any how, but how far should I go?


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2013)

That looks like a short chimney. Leave to the cap off until you are certain the chimney will provide adequate draft for the stove.


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## gldntrout (Nov 1, 2013)

begreen said:


> That looks like a short chimney. Leave to the cap off until you are certain the chimney will provide adequate draft for the stove.



I took a rough measurement today, and it is about 15' from the top of the fireplace to the top of the chimney.  

@blades - I'll get a full set of measurements tomorrow and post them.


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2013)

If 15' that should work ok for the Kent. It's taller than it looks in the picture.


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## blades (Nov 1, 2013)

Windows, when I did my research a number of years ago one thing I looked at was expansion contraction of the various materials, Vinyl was only slightly better than alum ( alum is bad due to thermal transport)  with fiberglass being the closest to wood frame.  Now I did not replace the whole window frame and all just the sashes as the frames were good. Only time you need the whole shebang is if there are rot issues with the frames. I used wood replacement sashes with low e double glass panes, gas in between for however long it stays there. Point is they are diy systems and can be done as funds permit. I have done 2 homes this way with excellant results on both. I have friends that did the vinyl thing for big bucks, are now having a lot of leakage issues.  One other thing on windows is to insulate next to the frames any gaps between the frame and wall. Pull a piece of the face molding off (carefully) and you will see what I am talking about, more cold leaks there than through the window units themselves. ( something else not generally talked about, applies to exterior doors as well and certainly not by window sales persons) REPLACEMENT WINDOW SALES = USED CAR DEALER SALES, NIETHER TO BE TRUSTED FOR THE TRUTH either way both are about I/2 step below a politician.


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## ddahlgren (Nov 1, 2013)

3M interior window film buy the 3M brand specifically, and some electrical out let gaskets would do a lot for very little money to tighten the house up. A lot can be done with the hot water costs as well. I only have hot water for 1 hour a day for a shower and the dishwasher. That saved a ton of money though I have a cold start boiler that gets to temperature in under 5 minutes.


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## Ashful (Nov 1, 2013)

Pulling the top to install the liner is the way to go, and like you, I left my topper removed until the following spring, when I did my year-end cleaning.  After that, I raised the pillars and re-installed it.

The only trouble is that you want that flue caged, to keep birds and squirrels out (I did get a squirrel into one of my stoves... cost me $600 in refractory components), so you're going to need to spend a few dollars for a cap, which you'll be modifying or tossing when you do get around to putting the flagstone back up.

I'm a stickler for old houses.  Every effort should be made to keep them as the builder intended them, where practical or possible.  While your house is not old by our local norm, it's a very cool custom house, and not exactly new!


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## eclecticcottage (Nov 1, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> Thanks for the info on the windows @akbear @eclecticcottage .  I'll start digging into this info and maybe add it to the project list once the stove is set.


 
No problem.  My house isn't really very old, but it's got it's own uniqueness, being one of the remaining summer cottages (even though it is our full time home).  I have been on and off Old house Web for years, and when the forums there started getting really spammy some members created Wavyglass.  I started the process of fixing our remaining original windows here last year-luckily ours are protected by aluminum storms so I can take my time!


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## Ashful (Nov 1, 2013)

eclecticcottage said:


> I started the process of fixing our remaining original windows here last year-luckily ours are protected by aluminum storms so I can take my time!


You may remember some of my rebuild stories posted at wavyglass... and that the previous owner's improperly-caulked aluminum triple-track storms are actually the cause of some of the damage I'm now repairing.  It's hard to describe the frustration I feel when I look at these 240 year old window sills, kept in perfect shape for more than 200 years, and then destroyed in less than 30 years by the inexperience of some stupid storm window installer.

I really expected a few to jump on the wood supply issue, so I'll get on it now.  Heating your house with wood cut this year may be very difficult.  Wood above 20% moisture content will cause difficulties in getting your secondary combustion system to function properly, thus causing creosote issues, and you will waste many BTU's boiling water out of any wood much above 20% moisture content.  Not all is lost, as there are some species that can be cut standing dead, in which you may find wood in the top half of the tree already at 20% moisture content.  Any wood lower in the tree (even standing dead), as well as anything lying directly on the ground, will not likely be ready to burn this year.

Your best weapon in your search for dry wood, is an electronic moisture meter.  Many of us use a General, which can be purchase for $30 at Lowes.


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 1, 2013)

I kinda avoided that issue as not many can id the different types of trees by buds.  Bark is too tough IMO since bark changes so much over the life of a tree. 

I would think that splitting the splits real small would help them dry out more than paying attention to species at this point.  Now, if you can id an ash tree by bud and tree shape get-er-done.  

Matt


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## EatenByLimestone (Nov 1, 2013)

It's real easy to be over excited with the caulk gun.  When you take into account that water runs downhill it's not to hard to figure out what parts to caulk and which ones not to.


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## Ashful (Nov 1, 2013)

EatenByLimestone said:


> It's real easy to be over excited with the caulk gun.  When you take into account that water runs downhill it's not to hard to figure out what parts to caulk and which ones not to.


I take things a step further.  Silicone caulk did not exist when this house was built in 1773, and the house has held up pretty well, despite a lack thereof.  It has no place here.


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## begreen (Nov 1, 2013)

In-house toilets didn't exist then either, just saying. There is no problem applying modern tech to an old house to keep it going another 100 years. Caulking materials have improved immensely. You can be sure if they were around in 1773 Ben Franklin would have been using them.


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## blades (Nov 1, 2013)

Actually some were, Oakum for one, Dung mixed with straw for another, Pitch from trees or other plants, Wax from bee hives/ colonies, Cocoons, Animal hair, ect.  most are still in use in various regions of the world. There is a lot of stuff that hasn't been totally replaced by  alternative materials. In some cases the original still exceeds  the replacement.


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## Ashful (Nov 1, 2013)

blades said:


> There is a lot of stuff that hasn't been totally replaced by  alternative materials. In some cases the original still exceeds  the replacement.


Exactly.  In my case, proper soldered copper flashing will never be replaced by adhesive rubber flashing and silicone caulk.


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## Machria (Nov 1, 2013)

That is a BEAUTIFUL stone house exterior.... !!


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## ddahlgren (Nov 1, 2013)

Machria said:


> That is a BEAUTIFUL stone house exterior.... !!


 
My thought is it is going to suck a lot of btus being all stone, not much R value there...


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## Dave A. (Nov 1, 2013)

Stone houses built in the 20's (at least around here) usually have framing and plaster on the interior side of the exterior walls.  Not necessarily originally insulated, but at least there's an air space between the cold stone and the interior or the place to add insulation, usually blown in through holes bored with a hole saw in the plaster for each stud bay often hidden under the base molding.


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## Ashful (Nov 2, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Stone houses built in the 20's (at least around here) usually have framing and plaster on the interior side of the exterior walls.  Not necessarily originally insulated, but at least there's an air space between the cold stone and the interior or the place to add insulation, usually blown in through holes bored with a hole saw in the plaster for each stud bay often hidden under the base molding.


I've been told there have been fires caused by blowing insulation into houses with (possibly unknown) knob and tube wiring.  Now, one might think it's impossible to have live knob and tube in a wall, and not know about it... but I just found some cloth wiring on a very old toggle light switch in my house.  I'll be pulling it apart tomorrow, hoping it's less antique than it initially appears.


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## dafattkidd (Nov 3, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> So here's the short story:
> 
> My girlfriend and I were both laid-off recently, within a few months of each other.  To save money, I rented my house out, and moved into her's (for love if she asks, but really because mine was more marketable).  We now live in her 1920's stone ranch house. 1 story - aprox 1500 sqft, with a semi-finished basement.  Heating bills (Natural Gas radiator) in winter are in the $300+/mo range (old house/crap insulation), so obviously looking to find an alternative
> 
> ...



Welcome to the forum.  Your girlfriend's house is really cool.  PA has some interesting houses.  Good news is that old stove you cleaned up is a great unit!  It might be helpful to directly reach out to precaud, a forum member who has a Kent tile stove.  So sorry to hear that you lost your job.  My insert saved us from losing our house when I was unemployed a few years ago. We have oil heat which is like $800-$850/month in winter. That happened to be the coldest winter in years, so we were super grateful for wood heat.  

Sounds like you've gotten some great advice already.  I will add a bit that I hope is helpful to you.  My first year burning I had less than optimal wood.  So I mixed in a lot of construction debris to offset the moisture in the firebox.  When you do get your wood it will be helpful to split it pretty small, as larger chunks of mediocre wood are more problematic than smaller splits.  Also, I scored some great free wood on Craig's list.  Check Craig's list free section regularly.  I've scored a ton of seasoned hardwood on Craig's list. 

A quick note on the unemployment:  Sounds like you're a very mechanical person, and a hard worker.  Something tells me you won't be unemployed for long.  Loosing my old job was the best thing to happen to my profession career.  God bless you, dude.  I wish the best for you and your girlfriend.


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## Dave A. (Nov 3, 2013)

Joful said:


> I've been told there have been fires caused by blowing insulation into houses with (possibly unknown) knob and tube wiring.  Now, one might think it's impossible to have live knob and tube in a wall, and not know about it... but I just found some cloth wiring on a very old toggle light switch in my house.  I'll be pulling it apart tomorrow, hoping it's less antique than it initially appears.


Good point.

I think that's pretty commonly known now -- you don't insulate walls with knob and tube wiring in them, that type wiring requires an air space and you need to be careful about it.

Am pretty sure that by the mid 1920's romex (non-metalic NM) type wiring was being used in a lot of housing, though knob and tube continued well into the 1930's -- particularly in lower priced construction.


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## ddahlgren (Nov 4, 2013)

My house not that old by some standards built in 1874 and the wiring I pulled out all BX with very fragile cotton cover over the wires. I wonder if the knob and tube was used in new construction and BX in a retrofit to avoid pulling the plaster and lathe off the wall to install it?


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## Motor7 (Nov 4, 2013)

Whack that tree back at least 10' from the chimney, a little more would not hurt. I think you're on the right track...remove NG lines, Drop a liner down there, fab up a block off plate & start burning.

Speaking from experience with standing dead(100 ac here), be real careful when cutting them since they can be unpredictable in their felling direction. Also, dead upper branches can drop while you're down there sawing....a 3" x 2' long branch can kill ya so get and wear a logging helmet. Trust me, I am not the safety police, but after a few close calls, I never go dropping trees of any size without my kevlar chaps, steel toed boots, ear protection and metal logging helmet. All this stuff can be had used on fleabay, and if you don't have one I think I have an old Stihl plastic helmet with muffs you can have if you need...f.o.c.


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## Ashful (Nov 4, 2013)

ddahlgren said:


> My house not that old by some standards built in 1874 and the wiring I pulled out all BX with very fragile cotton cover over the wires. I wonder if the knob and tube was used in new construction and BX in a retrofit to avoid pulling the plaster and lathe off the wall to install it?



Depending on your distance from a city... There were still a lot of people living without electricity when BX was invented.


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## akbear (Nov 4, 2013)

I'd suspect any house of that age to be knob and tube since romex wasn't even invented until 1922 whereas knob and tube was still the popular option until at least 1940.  Plus most of that early romex (which many places discouraged or didn't allow in favour of conduit or bx until about the 70s) was only two conductor without a ground.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

These are good points but way off topic. Please take the knob and tube discussion to the DIY forum.


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## ddahlgren (Nov 4, 2013)

Joful said:


> Depending on your distance from a city... There were still a lot of people living without electricity when BX was invented.


 My grand parents bought the house in the late 20's I wonder if they put in the electric and indoor plumbing? I live in a small village though just a few blocks from the center of it. Most houses around mine are mid to late 1800's.


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## begreen (Nov 4, 2013)

Stop the chatter *please*.


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## gldntrout (Nov 5, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Good point.
> 
> I think that's pretty commonly known now -- you don't insulate walls with knob and tube wiring in them, that type wiring requires an air space and you need to be careful about it.
> 
> Am pretty sure that by the mid 1920's romex (non-metalic NM) type wiring was being used in a lot of housing, though knob and tube continued well into the 1930's -- particularly in lower priced construction.




When I did the blow-in insulation in the attic last-summer, I noticed that some of the old wiring was run through the attic.  It is knob and tube wiring.  While the house has had the electric breaker replaced and about half of the outlets converted over to 3 prong (new wire run from box to terminal, ie correctly), the other outlets are the old 2-prong outlets and wrapped wire. I have no idea why they wouldn't have converted the rest of the outlets and wiring, but they didn't.    Anyways, the house is exactly as you predicted, stone exterior, firing strips and plaster walls inside, no insulation, 10ft ceilings.  Great in the summer, not so much in the winter.  

I think that on the project list will be to finish converting the rest of the wiring, and disconnecting the remaining knob and tubes.


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## gldntrout (Nov 5, 2013)

[quote="Joful, post: 1560863, member: 22094"

I really expected a few to jump on the wood supply issue, so I'll get on it now.  Heating your house with wood cut this year may be very difficult.  Wood above 20% moisture content will cause difficulties in getting your secondary combustion system to function properly, thus causing creosote issues, and you will waste many BTU's boiling water out of any wood much above 20% moisture content.  Not all is lost, as there are some species that can be cut standing dead, in which you may find wood in the top half of the tree already at 20% moisture content.  Any wood lower in the tree (even standing dead), as well as anything lying directly on the ground, will not likely be ready to burn this year.

Your best weapon in your search for dry wood, is an electronic moisture meter.  Many of us use a General, which can be purchase for $30 at Lowes.[/quote]

I've done some searching around here, and I think what we're going to do is buy a couple of cords of seasoned wood.  Unknown to me before I started this quest, my girlfriend's uncle leases some land to a lumber outfit.  I've got a call into them to price out some wood.  Her Uncle said that because it's his land, they will give me a pretty good discount, but I won't know how much until I talk to them.  Along with that, I'm going to cut a couple of cords to stack for next year.  

After reading the different posts on wood, I figured it would be worth the money to get seasoned wood instead of trying to force the issue with unsuitable wood.  In addition, there's a bit of making sure this all works to keep the gf happy, since she's a bit skeptical about this whole deal.


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## gldntrout (Nov 5, 2013)

EatenByLimestone said:


> My first year I used pallets to get me though the winter.  I found a hot tub/pool dealer had lots of large, oak pallets for free.  Use a sawzall to cut them up.  I was stupid and used my chainsaw and ruined a few chains.
> 
> Matt



I was able to get a truck full of pallets yesterday from Home Depot.  They were happy to get rid of them (they reuse good ones, but have to pay to recycle the ones that are broken).  Brought home 14.  Using some as the bottom for my future wood stack, and will start breaking down the rest to burn.  Lots of nails/braids that need to be pulled, but it's pretty easy to pull them out.  Lots of big box stores around me, so I will be visiting a bunch more in the coming days.  If nothing else it should be great kindling, and can't beat the price.


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## jeff_t (Nov 5, 2013)

Go get the moisture meter before you buy seasoned wood. Might be 'seasoned', but most of the time it ain't dry.


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## boosted3g (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm also in central pa and have some seasoned maple you can have.  It's not anywhere near a cord but it's free.  I'm a pellet burner so it's no use to me.  Message me and I'll give you some contact info.


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## gldntrout (Nov 5, 2013)

dafattkidd said:


> Welcome to the forum.  Your girlfriend's house is really cool.  PA has some interesting houses.  Good news is that old stove you cleaned up is a great unit!  It might be helpful to directly reach out to precaud, a forum member who has a Kent tile stove.  So sorry to hear that you lost your job.  My insert saved us from losing our house when I was unemployed a few years ago. We have oil heat which is like $800-$850/month in winter. That happened to be the coldest winter in years, so we were super grateful for wood heat.
> 
> A quick note on the unemployment:  Sounds like you're a very mechanical person, and a hard worker.  Something tells me you won't be unemployed for long.  Loosing my old job was the best thing to happen to my profession career.  God bless you, dude.  I wish the best for you and your girlfriend.



This house is very cool and has a lot of personality.  My house (the one that I rented out) is an incredibly boring pre-fab townhouse in a college town (PSU).  So it's fun to dig into things here and see some of the original craftsmanship.  Granted a lot of the original things have been retrofitted and "modernized" (shag carpet in the basement, what were people thinking?!?!?) and a lot of layers of paint, but there is still the enough of the original features to make it interesting, like 8" wide baseboards.  

It's also been great for me to be able to work on it during my down time.  Keeps me occupied and doing productive things. I'd rather spend the money and time to make an improvement on the house than pay to sit and watch cable tv.  

When I bought my house ~11 years ago, I quickly found out how much it cost to have a contractor do work, and how shoddy the work really was.  I vowed then that I would do as much work on my house as possible and not pay the outrageous costs to have someone else do it for me.  Granted the first time I do something, it usually takes about 3 times as long for me to figure it out myself, but I don't mind because its a heck of a lot cheaper, sense of satisfaction of not having to rely on someone else to do it for you,  I know the quality is sound (unless you look closely at the crown molding I put in lol) and learn great skill sets. 

Thank you for the best wishes for employment.  Hopefully something will break soon for us.  We're both interviewing, and I think my girlfriend is getting close with a company, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  May take me a little longer because of the nature of my background.  We both do medical device sales, but I've been doing international sales and channel management while she focuses on the domestic side, and the pool of device companies that have international departments in the area is much, much smaller.  Regardless, I'm confident it's going to work out, and I am incredibly thankful for everyone's best wises, advice and encouragement.


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## gldntrout (Nov 5, 2013)

blades said:


> Different subject: if that fireplace was a fireplace originally   then that flue is likely a fair size and slipping a liner( perferably insulated)  down it should not be particularly difficult ( smoke shelf is the hard spot).  You will need to fab a block off plate at bottom and one for top , 10-14 gauge steel sheet on bottom, stainless same spec for top. Might have to get a shop to put a 6" (?) hole in it for you. digging on the net or library should get you enough info to be more than real dangerous . A pair of band clamps for either end of the liner to keep it in place. some fireplace brick cement ( sold in caulking gun cartridges) to seal around block off on bottom same thing but mortar on top. A extra body wouldn't hurt either with the liner. ( Real simple over view of what is required) give us some dimensions of that flue and we can be more specific. Dave A beat to some of this as well.




Here are the dimensions for the block off plate 2" above opening;
Front - 35"
Rear - 31"
Front-to-back - 20"

I went around to a couple of places today, and found a piece of 24 gauge stainless steel at a plumbing supply company.  They had it laying around scrap and I was able to pick it up for $10.  It's 3' x 2'.  I've never bought sheet metal, so I don't know if that's a good price, but it didn't seem bad.  I know its a tad short on the front, but I'm hoping it will be enough.  

I'm thinking that I'll get it cut and bent according the instructions on: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/
Once I get it in, I'll mock up the plate and stove, and mark the hole to be cut.

Then for the hole, I picked up a diamond cutting tip for my Dremel, at Harbor Freight for $4 (had two coupons), so I'll try to cut it with that.  If it is a big fail, I have an angle grinder that I can use.  I'm just thinking that the Dremel will give me a better round.  Probably will use a combination of the two.  I saw a hole cutting tool for metal, but it was $30.  I don't mind buying tools, but I try to stay away from single-use items.

Once I get that settled, I will have a question about the fireplace cement needed to gap the hole around the liner.

Thanks for the help


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## blades (Nov 6, 2013)

Seeing as you will be making a fair sized hole in the block off plate, you might be able to cut that 24 gauge with a jig saw or a sawsall ( if has variable speed  that would be better) and a fine  bi-metal cutting blade if you have one. Diamond on steel does not work well more for things like ceramics, glass. Carbide is the better choice. Another note on stainless running a cutting tool on it very fast will cause the surface interface of the tool and metal to become harder than a file.  slow speed and something to act as a coolant is the key to dealing with stainless. Another method is to drill a lot of holes on your diameter and then nip out between them spacing the holes a close together as possible. 24 is fairly thin so a board behind the drill point will make life easier. Just some ideas form an old redneck that's been makin due for longer than I can remember.


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## Motor7 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes, if you have a jig saw & metal blade that would be the best way to cut the plate.

As far a pallet wood, go easy with that stuff, it can be really dry and burn really hot & might try and runaway. I am down to about a cord & a half of cutoffs from my log house build & only mix them in with regular splits to keep the temps down.


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## Nick Mystic (Nov 6, 2013)

Here is a tip I used when I did my block off plate: I cut my hole the size of an 8" square in the sheet metal so that I would have some wiggle room for positioning my ss flex liner when I dropped it down my chimney. I then slid a 12" square chimney cap plate over the bottom of my liner (in the upside down position so the crown of the plate aimed downward) and pushed it up flush to the block off plate. I used the four corner holes to screw it in place tight to the block off plate. This gave a good tight fit around the flex liner without having to apply a bunch of stove cement, etc.


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## Machria (Nov 6, 2013)

begreen said:


> Stop the chatter *please*.



Whats the issue with them discussing insulating the wall and being carefull of tube and whatever wiring?  I for one learned a LOT from it, would have never thought of it.  The OP asked,......


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## begreen (Nov 6, 2013)

The OP is asking about getting a Kent Tile fire installed. The knob and tube wiring discussion is an entirely separate tangent as would be plumbing. It may be important, but is not hearth or stove related. Move those topics to the DIY room if  further discussion is desired.


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## theheatelement (Nov 6, 2013)

Motor7 said:


> Yes, if you have a jig saw & metal blade that would be the best way to cut the plate.
> 
> As far a pallet wood, go easy with that stuff, it can be really dry and burn really hot & might try and runaway. I am down to about a cord & a half of cutoffs from my log house build & only mix them in with regular splits to keep the temps down.


Eeeee. Just use tin snips 24 ya is easy to cut


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## gldntrout (Nov 8, 2013)

blades said:


> Seeing as you will be making a fair sized hole in the block off plate, you might be able to cut that 24 gauge with a jig saw or a sawsall ( if has variable speed  that would be better) and a fine  bi-metal cutting blade if you have one. Diamond on steel does not work well more for things like ceramics, glass. Carbide is the better choice. Another note on stainless running a cutting tool on it very fast will cause the surface interface of the tool and metal to become harder than a file.  slow speed and something to act as a coolant is the key to dealing with stainless. Another method is to drill a lot of holes on your diameter and then nip out between them spacing the holes a close together as possible. 24 is fairly thin so a board behind the drill point will make life easier. Just some ideas form an old redneck that's been makin due for longer than I can remember.




All good tips to me, I had no idea about any of this, have never worked with stainless before.  Thanks for the heads-up - you probably just saved me a bunch of time and an extra trip to the supply company.


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## gldntrout (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm not sure if this is going to give everyone the gratification you all deserve, but I wanted to let you all know that your advice was indispensable.  You helped me go from completely ignorant (and probably a little dangerous) to well informed, and most importantly a new wood stove user.


Here's my effort at repaying you all with a narrative of the instal:

I pulled the chimney-topper off; not going to lie, it was really heavy, both physically as well as figuratively, as this was the "point-of-no-return" step for my girlfriend.  6 stone blocks, each of which were easily >70lbs.  Some of the posts holding them up had loosened over the years making it a bit dicey, but worked it all out without any problems. 

After I got us both (girlfriend was a little skeptical of this whole endeavor but played along nice) fully committed, I pulled the NG line on the log fireplace.  Not a big deal at all.
	

		
			
		

		
	





Capped the line, and done.  I now have the cap as well as the cut-off valve before any NG can get out.

Once I pulled the log set, i found that the NG line to the fireplace ran through an open brick that had been pulled out.  More interesting, was that below the fireplace was a open space all the way down to the foundation.  I never mentioned that the chimney extends into the basement and is closed, but I wasn't expecting the 10' deep open hole.  I kept imagining the cat falling in which would have been an interesting time .  So I made sure to keep it blocked off during the install.





I pushed the copper NG (now unattached) down below the stone (about 14").  Pulling it out would have been a PIA.

Next, I had a chimney sweep come in and inspect the chimney.  I wanted to be sure that there wasn't anything interesting going on that I needed to be worried about.  Cost me $75, but I would prefer to error on the side of caution.  Told him my plans and got a big green light.  He also said if I was to pay him to do what I was planning, it would cost ~$900!?!?!?!  

Next Chimney Liner installation.  This part was no fun.  Lots of work and sweat




The chimney is just about 9 inches at the widest, but only 7" and change at the smallest (rectangular), so it was a serious effort to get it down.  I was pushing from the top.  girlfriend was pulling hard at the bottom (i wrapped a 30' rope with a clove hitch to the bottom of the liner and duct-tapped 3 loops of pull).  Took about 4 hours of effort, but got it set.  





After that, I had to do a little customizing of the cap to fit the stones on the chimney.  Angle-grinders have lots of uses   Did the finish work with tin-snips.

Bought some Roxul insulation to fill the chimney at the top and down where I had built the block-off plate.
Sadly, had to buy a large bag of 16 batts, when I only needed 3, but it was the smallest amount sold.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 (this is the top of the chimney)

Not sure if i did it right here, but I used chimney cement to fix the metal cap plate to the top of the chimney.




Put the cap on and done on top.  This picture is a test fitting, I eventually got the cap on level.

Next I put in the block-off plate that I had built.  Ended up installing it a little higher than the 2" above lintel that was suggested in the info article, but that's where it ended up seating, so I am ok with it.  Used Fireblock silicone to seal the gaps.  When I cut the hole, I knew that I needed a little extra room, so I drew a circle at 7 1/2" (knowing that the chimney liner was close to 7 5/8" around.  Then I drilled holes on the exterior of the line using a 3/8" carbide drill bit.  Then cutting on the outside of the drill holes with tin snips to cut out the round, I gave myself about 1/2-1 inch of wiggle room which ended up being perfect.  The liner fit through snug enough that I didn't need to seal that hole.  Plus with the Roxul above the block-off plate there's virtually no space for air to sneak through.  The added benefit of this was that I still have some play in the liner for putting the stove in without directly pulling/pushing on the block off plate




After that, I measured how high the stove was and cut the excess liner to height (again, angle-grinder was the way to go), and attached the stove connector.  To make the cut, I wrapped a piece of duct-tape around the liner, then used a large rubber band to get a straight line that was the correct length (I think it was 27 3/4")  Then I used a sharpy and traced a line around rubber band to give me a cut line on the liner.  Took the band off, and made the cut.  The other benefit of the duct-tape is it cuts down on the amount of sparks as you cut.




After that, it was just a matter of getting the stove in the fireplace and connected.  I found the way to do this was to tilt the stove up at the front (which lowered the back end) and sliding it under the chimney liner, then when in place, setting it down, which very nicely set the connecter into the stove vent.
A little huffing and puffing here as I moved the stove to fit, but a couple of pieces of cardboard under the stove made it slide fairly smoothly into place, then I pulled the cardboard out as I set it level.




Thankfully my measurements were pretty close to spot on (measure twice (or 5 times), cut once), and the stove fit better than I had hoped!

Since it fit so well, I decided not to use stove screws to fix the connector to the chimney.  My thought is since it fits tightly, and there is up-pressure from the stove, and down-pressure from the chimney, the screws weren't necessary, and poking holes in the liner (however well-filled by a screw) is just opening up points of weakness, and potential spots for hot-gas to leak out.  Not sure if that's the right way of thinking, so I'll go with your advice on this.

After staring at my success for a while (and resting - hard work!), finally decided to get a test burn in.  After re-reading precaud's link: http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/kent-tile-fire-and-sherwood-stoves.60702/page-5#post-1578652
and the information article on the Kent Tile Fire, I felt brave enough to light a small fire.  Fire lit well, and once the stove was hot, got a little smoke as the decades of dust burned off, and I got a little smoke from the insulation on the chimney liner.  I'm assuming that was a little of the excess adhesive burning off.  Only lasted for about 15 minutes, and haven't seen or smelled any since.

The next day, I build a real fire, and started to get acquainted with my new stove.  Very impressed with how easily it runs, and most importantly (for my domestic well-being), virtually no smoke seepage.

Obviously being my first wood burner, I'm not qualified to make much in the way of comparison of quality, but this old Kent Tile is a cool stove, and has a pretty ingenious design.  Once the fire is established, you close the damper which forces the exhaust up through a secondary burn chamber before it vent into the chimney.  With the damper open there is not much heat transferred out (as all of the hot gas escapes directly into the chimney, but once the damper is closed, the stove heats up quite fast.  Most of the heat seems to come out from the top, as the tile on the sides are relatively cool for about 30 min- 1 hour.  This, however, is where my putting the block-off plate too high is coming back to get me.  All of the heated air is going up the fireplace chimney to the block-off plate, then it spills out and goes straight up the ceiling.  

Don't get me wrong, it heats the house, but the heat starts at the top and then gradually works it's way down, which is a bummer with 10' ceilings.  I experimented a little with an oscillating fan (the only fan I have), blowing into the fireplace, and that is going to be the solution as it creates enough turbulence to blow the radiant heat out from the fireplace.   The fan I have is too big, so I'm going to buy a small fan that I can put in front of the fireplace, and that should make everything better.

Other than that, I'm incredible impressed with the stove.  I'm sure there are better, more efficient ones out there, but considering the circumstances, this is perfect, and I'm kind of geeky-proud to be running a relic like this.



----------------I've been capped on the number of pictures, so I'm going to post the rest in a new post-----------


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## gldntrout (Nov 23, 2013)

Last part of the update is on wood, because this was a concern for a lot of posters (and myself), so I wanted to give you an idea of where I'm at with it.

Once I committed to this endeavor, I have become a wood whore.  I've been scouring craigslist, newspaper classifieds etc for free cheap/wood, with mixed success.  I spent $30 on a timber permit for the state forest.  PA is apparently pretty stingy on what you can cut.  For $30, I get 2 cords of wood, and have 2 weeks to cut it.  HOWEVER, there is are only 2 places that you can cut firewood (for the entirety of central PA) and the permit is only good for one of them.  Further, the permit is specific for a stretch of road, and you can only harvest fallen timber that has been marked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





So, I'm late in the game, and the 1 mile road I can harvest on has been picked through pretty well.  I'm left scrounging for the pieces that everyone has picked over.  Almost entirely beech, and nothing bigger than about 4" rounds, most is 2" or smaller.  And for more fun, it's an hour drive.I did pick up a moisture meter, and the average is about 15-20%.

I'm going to fill my permit, but this obviously isn't the solution.


I've had some luck locally, and have been able to take some decent logs from friends of friend's land etc, and I'd say I've gotten roughly 4 truck-loads so far. 




I'm not all together sure what kind, but I suspect it's a lot of cherry, with some oak and maple mixed in.  Again, mostly reading about 15-20% with the moisture meter.  I have no idea how much I'm going to need, so I'm going to continue scrounging until I don't have any more room, then I'm going to block out what ever else I can get, and stack those on the side of the property to split later if I need them later.  I'm suspecting I'm going to need a lot, since the couple of fires I've had are eating wood pretty quickly with it being relatively warm outside still (daytime 40s-50's, mid-30's at night).  If I'm still short when it starts getting really cold out, I may just bite the bullet and buy a couple of cords, but I'm hopeful that I can keep finding free wood until then.




Here's a picture as I'm beginning to stack.  I know it's not the ideal place, but I'm kind of limited for flat ground since we live on a hill.

I'm starting the fires with pallet wood, and tossing in a piece every time I load the fire, just to have some hot dry wood in the firebox with the relatively wet stuff that I'm working with.  

Since I don't have any experience with the stove, I'm planning on cleaning the chimney when we get a warm day sometime mid-late January, since I'm anticipating a lot of creosote from the wet wood.  Hopefully that will give me a baseline to work from going forward.

So - that's were I am currently.  This has been an incredibly satisfying experience so far and I'm looking forward to a nice warm winters from here on.
I'm not going to lie, a lot of this was hard work, the chimney installation alone was a bear.  But, I think I avoided a lot of potential pit-falls because of everyone's advice and expertise, and it went as smoothly as could be expected.  The only real thing I wish I would have done differently is to set the casters underneath the stove so that it was level before I attached the chimney.  Thankfully, that is the only thing that I would redo at this point.



And finally:                                                                          *The Pay-Off*







Again, thank you to everyone who helped, can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your advice!


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## begreen (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks for the ample documentation. So far my only concern is that there is no sealing top plate at the top of the chimney. They way it is pictured there will be a flood of water coming down the chimney with the first rain. Something has to seal and protect the roxul around the liner. This will not be done by the top rain hat cap.


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## jeff_t (Nov 23, 2013)

Looks like there is a plate in the pic with the ladder?

The stove looks great in that fireplace, by the way.


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## gldntrout (Nov 23, 2013)

begreen said:


> Thanks for the ample documentation. So far my only concern is that there is no sealing top plate at the top of the chimney. They way it is pictured there will be a flood of water coming down the chimney with the first rain. Something has to seal and protect the roxul around the liner. This will not be done by the top rain hat cap.



There is a plate on top of the chimney that the cap fits onto.  It covers the entire chimney hole, and then I sealed it with furnace cement.  I'll climb up there and grab a picture tomorrow.  I wasn't sure about if furnace cement was the right choice, but that's what I used.  But I definitely didn't leave the roxul exposed, lol.  

The stove was finished just in time. Lows in the mid-teens tonight and snow.  

Picked up 2 truckloads of wood today.  A HUGE oak log, about 18" diameter.  Cut in half, I barely fit it in my truck, so call it 15'.  It was cut this spring, so I may have to let that one sit until next year.  And a bunch of walnut and maple, again fairly green, but nice to know that I'm ahead of the game for next year.  I'll block them out and stack it at the back of the property to season for next year.


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## gldntrout (Nov 23, 2013)

jeff_t said:


> Looks like there is a plate in the pic with the ladder?
> 
> The stove looks great in that fireplace, by the way.



Thanks!  It worked out better than I had hoped


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## Holiday (Nov 23, 2013)

When you say block them out do you mean splitting them as well? Nothing really dries all that well until actually split.

The more a person can get cut and split the better, even if it's for 2 years from now.


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## rowerwet (Nov 24, 2013)

even with a lower block off plate in the chimney the heated air would flow directly to the chimney. the best way to take care of that is a ceiling fan, the next best would be a wire cage type fan blowing straight up from the floor to mix the colder air with the hot. Place the floor mounted fan in a corner and leave it running whenever the stove is. 
ceiling fans add value to a house, mix and move heat better, help move a/c more evenly, or help endure hot weather without a/c(much cheaper electric bill). A ceiling fan over the table blowing down on high can keep you comfortable enough to want to eat on those super hot muggy days when otherwise you just don't fee hungry. (since A/C season where I live in Maine was 4 weeks at most we lived there for 10 years with no A/C) 
A ceiling fan over the bed allowed us to sleep on hot muggy nights, also.


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## Ashful (Nov 24, 2013)

The best thanks you can give is to stick around, and advise the next guy!  You're an expert, now.

On screws into liners/connectors... totally unnecessary, when everything is running right.  However, you'll be glad you have them in the event of a chimney fire, or one of those "liner wrinkling back puffs," BrotherBart once warned against.


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## Dave A. (Nov 24, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> Not sure if i did it right here, but I used chimney cement to fix the metal cap plate to the top of the chimney.



I believe the normal method is to use high temp silicone (black) to seal the plate to the top of the chimney (usually around the edge of the top clay tile).  That should keep it air and water sealed.  I'd keep an eye on the chimney cement which is more likely to crack and leak, I'd think.  The top plate should also be mechanically attached to the chimney either with fasteners (drilled into chimney cap) or tension screws like with a "terracotta top plate". (though some have suggested, you can get by with just the silicone)


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## Dave A. (Nov 24, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> Since it fit so well, I decided not to use stove screws to fix the connector to the chimney. My thought is since it fits tightly, and there is up-pressure from the stove, and down-pressure from the chimney, the screws weren't necessary, and poking holes in the liner (however well-filled by a screw) is just opening up points of weakness, and potential spots for hot-gas to leak out. Not sure if that's the right way of thinking, so I'll go with your advice on this.



Joful makes a good point about that, plus I believe it's code (3 screws into the stove flue collar) for a reason, safety.  I was told if it's too tight to get all three in, then at least one.

Good luck with it, nice looking fireplace, stove looks good in it.


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## begreen (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't think furnace cement is going to adhere well nor seal out rain. The plate should be sealed with a generous bead of silicone. I would remove the plate, completely clean off any furnace cement and get the surfaces dust free. Then put down a fat bead of a good silicone adhesive sealant like GE Silicone II and press the top plate down on to it.


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## MDFisherman (Nov 24, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> Joful makes a good point about that, plus I believe it's code (3 screws into the stove flue collar) for a reason, safety.  I was told if it's too tight to get all three in, then at least one.
> 
> Good luck with it, nice looking fireplace, stove looks good in it.




How about a hose clamp to connect stove to liner. Or better yet 2 with them tightening in different directions


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## Dave A. (Nov 24, 2013)

Am not an expert on this, but don't believe that's an accepted method.  My understanding is if clearance issues prevent getting screws in there, then the way to go would be a draw down type connector attaching from inside the stove.

Actually it's not the liner which is being drilled for the screws but rather the appliance connector.  The liner goes inside the appliance connector which fastens to the liner with a hose clamp type attachment. The appliance connector then goes into the flue collar on the stove. So can't see how a hose clamp would work when the fitting goes inside the flue collar.  Maybe you should explain why you're doing it that way (and a pic might help)


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## gldntrout (Nov 25, 2013)

begreen said:


> I don't think furnace cement is going to adhere well nor seal out rain. The plate should be sealed with a generous bead of silicone. I would remove the plate, completely clean off any furnace cement and get the surfaces dust free. Then put down a fat bead of a good silicone adhesive sealant like GE Silicone II and press the top plate down on to it.



Yeah, I went up and checked today, and it appears that furnace cement isn't the way to go.  The weather is going to be crappy for the next couple of days, but as soon as it clears up, I will climb back up there, clean off the cement and go with silicone.  The way it is now will work in the short term, but defiantly not the right way to go.


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## gldntrout (Nov 25, 2013)

Dave A. said:


> I believe the normal method is to use high temp silicone (black) to seal the plate to the top of the chimney (usually around the edge of the top clay tile).  That should keep it air and water sealed.  I'd keep an eye on the chimney cement which is more likely to crack and leak, I'd think.  The top plate should also be mechanically attached to the chimney either with fasteners (drilled into chimney cap) or tension screws like with a "terracotta top plate". (though some have suggested, you can get by with just the silicone)



The top plate does have an integral hose clamp that attaches the liner to the top plate, so the liner is mechanically attached at the top.

I'll also put a couple of screws into the appliance collar to attach it to the liner in the morning when the stove is cool.


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## begreen (Nov 25, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> Yeah, I went up and checked today, and it appears that furnace cement isn't the way to go.  The weather is going to be crappy for the next couple of days, but as soon as it clears up, I will climb back up there, clean off the cement and go with silicone.  The way it is now will work in the short term, but defiantly not the right way to go.


After cleaning up, wipe the metal down with alcohol to remove any residual oils before siliconing. You want a good fat seal there.


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## Dave A. (Nov 25, 2013)

gldntrout said:


> The top plate does have an integral hose clamp that attaches the liner to the top plate, so the liner is mechanically attached at the top.



http://www.instructables.com/id/Chimney-Liner-Installation-Step-By-Step-Guide/step8/

and


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## gldntrout (Dec 14, 2013)

Quick update:

Furnace cement was defiantly not the way to go for the top cap.  Cleaned it of with a scrapper then a wire brush, used alcohol (thanks begreen) to make sure there weren't any oils to mess up the seal, and then resealed the top cap with a FAT bead of chimney specific, high-temp silicone (purchased from a fireplace store, where the purveyor laughed at me for what I had done - another reason I'm glad I came here for help).  Checked it a couple of days later and it set perfectly and has a good seal all the way around.

We've been running the stove pretty much non-stop since the install, and I can't say how much I'm impressed.  Our avg temp inside is 70-73, even when it's been in the teens outside.  Considering the heating bills paid last year ($300+/mo to keep the house at 65) this has been an incredibly rewarding experience.  I love seeing the NG bill come in and it's in the $30 range (water heater)

I've got a bunch of wood, scrounged like a maniac, and filled my permit, have split around 2 cords-ish (wild guess), and have 8x4x4 stack of blocked wood, and a log pile that's 8x8x6 that needs some chainsaw love.  crazy mix of wood.  Beech, maple, oak, poplar, ash, walnut, and even some plum mixed in for good effect.  I'll get a new permit at the beginning of the year and start cutting for next winter.

I'm still working out some of the newbie issues - how to pack the stove to get it to run through the night, how long do I let it run before emptying the ash, what to do with the ash afterwards.  ie stupid learning experience stuff.  But in general, incredible positive experience, and a huge plus for us.


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## rwhite (Dec 14, 2013)

Nice work! Refreshing to see a good install. As for the ash. Get a proper ash can with lid. I usually clean ash once a week. Takes about 4 cleanings to fill up the can. I leave it sit outside (away from everything) for a week or so and then just dump in the dumpster. Looks like your into it for the cost of liner and some gas to gather wood so you may see your return in a few months


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