# Timber Frame Woodshed



## DiscoInferno (Aug 19, 2010)

A couple of years ago I was cutting down some standing-dead balsam fir trees on our property, and thought to save the poles in case I ever wanted to build something.  Balsam grows straight up and is comparable to hemlock in strength, and isn't worth much for firewood.  Last year I cut down a bunch more, and got a cheap drawknife and started peeling.  This year I finally got around to building a woodshed with them.  I elevated the posts above ground and treated the posts and beams with copper naphthenate, as balsam fir rots rather easily and is a favorite of many bugs.  Cedar would have been a better choice in this respect, but I've only got about 2 sad cedar trees on the property.

The shed is ~8' deep by 24' long, sloping from something like 8' in front to 6.5' in back.  Here's the first 6 posts and the rear 12' beams in place:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGunCHdH0dI/AAAAAAAAAhE/rDLbdizy7sI/s800/p7243531.jpg

The frost line here is on the order of 4', but the ground in many spots is full of rocks and even with a loader w/ hydraulic auger (borrowed from my parents) I was not able to get down that far in most spots.  I didn't feel like mixing that much concrete anyway, so I filled most of each hole with gravel before pouring the footers.  Besides rocks the it's all sand here, so I'm hoping frost heaves will not be a problem.  The 2x4's attached to the posts are actually sunk into the ground, I used them to plumb everything up and hold the shed together while building.  I'll attach siding to them later.

Here the second set of beams are in, and the intermediate post footers are poured:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGunDYg_UxI/AAAAAAAAAhI/YSC8kGBGUd4/s800/p7283542.jpg

I used Simpson Strong-Tie metal strapping to secure the posts to the footers and to splice the beams and secure them to the posts (also have a 12" spike into each post).  A lot cheaper than T and L brackets of the size I needed.

Here's a couple of shots with all the posts up, the cross-bracing in, the rafters up, and the purlins attached:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGunE8jPPXI/AAAAAAAAAhM/K0jRB-FLQ0o/s800/p8173669.jpg

The shed doesn't really lean backwards, just camera distortion:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGunIIWnlyI/AAAAAAAAAhY/_jxlrMAckLQ/s800/p8173674.jpg

The rafters range in diameter from a little over 3" at the small ends (strength equivalent to a 2x4) to a little more than 5" at the butts (equivalent to a 2x8).  Checking span tables for balsam this seemed to be acceptable for a 60 lbs/sqft snow load.  We'll see next summer!

My original plan was to go as cheap as possible, but I couldn't find anything cheap for the roof.  So I got 8 10'x3' steel roofing panels, which with purlins and fasteners was more than half the total cost (which is around $350 so far):
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGunJu5cM4I/AAAAAAAAAhc/k6YDnCeRN5A/s800/p8173675.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/TGuoXiP0FaI/AAAAAAAAAis/7ocheuHXBCw/s800/p8173676.jpg

That's where things sit for now.  I still need to put up flashing around the roof perimeter.  The floor will be two rows of 7 40"x48" pallets, for a stacking area of 8' x 23'4".  If I average 6' high stacks it will hold 8.75 cords (call it 8 for space lost to cross-bracing).  I plan to side the sides and back next summer, I have a line on a guy with a sawmill that's cheap.


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## SolarAndWood (Aug 19, 2010)

That is a stylee shed, nice use of the balsam.  How did you secure the rafters?


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## smokinj (Aug 19, 2010)

Nice Job looks grate!


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## firefighterjake (Aug 19, 2010)

I like it . . . looks rugged.


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## Cowboy Billy (Aug 19, 2010)

Very nice!!  I like it!!  

   You didn't say if you built it in MD or MI. But if you want some cedar posts in MI and want to drive 30 miles east of I-75 by Cedarville I'll give you some. All you have to do is cut the stumps off branch them and  cut for your length. I have put in two miles of trails on my property there in the last year and half and have not had time to pick up all the logs yet.

Billy


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 19, 2010)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> That is a stylee shed, nice use of the balsam.  How did you secure the rafters?



3/8"x8" lag screw on each end.  Also how I connected all the cross members.

edit: Actually, some were 10" long, for the thicker butts.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks for the offer, Billy.  Unfortunately my next trip in that direction will be the start of the long slog back to MD.


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## Beetle-Kill (Aug 19, 2010)

Disco, that shed really, and I mean really looks nice.


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## Nixon (Aug 19, 2010)

Very well done ! absolutely first rate work .


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## vvvv (Aug 19, 2010)

real woodshed worthy of the hall of fame! critique= shudda wrapped underground posts with plastic to keep the preservative from leeching. for future preservation, if needed, consider drilling a 45* hole into the groundpost so u can pour more preservative in.


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## billb3 (Aug 19, 2010)

BLIMP said:
			
		

> real woodshed worthy of the hall of fame! critique= shudda wrapped underground posts with plastic to keep the preservative from leeching. for future preservation, if needed, consider drilling a 45* hole into the groundpost so u can pour more preservative in.




That's what they've done to all the  telephone poles here.
With a screw in plug so they can come back and reinject soem more.

Dug down around the pole and added a tarpaper wrapper of some sort.
From the dirt mess it doesn't look like they dug down too fat though.


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## vvvv (Aug 19, 2010)

billb3 said:
			
		

> BLIMP said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanx, i did this 30 yrs ago & thereafter ithink. used corks & probly otta do it again....soon


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## maplewood (Aug 20, 2010)

Beautiful shed!  Super job!
I'm planning a bigger timber frame building - a 2 bay garage with wood storage, 26'x32'.
Probably use balsam fir, too.  Got some Scotch Pine I'm peeling now for posts.
Did you flatten any of the rafters?  It's an area I'm not confident in.  I want to make sure the metal roofing looks good.
What centers are your rafters at?  16" or 24"?
Do you have more pics?
Thanks.  Trust you'll get years of dry wood out of this job.
Happy burning.


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## bogydave (Aug 20, 2010)

Nice uniform logs.
Looks great
Good job,
firewood in it soon??


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## 'bert (Aug 20, 2010)

Disco that looks first rate!!  Nice work with use of local building materials.  Keep the pics coming please, but lets get those measurements in metric for us Canucks.  After all we must honor the stupidest move the Canadian Government ever made.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the kind words, it's by far my biggest construction project ever and the first time I've built with round timbers, and I'm really happy with how it's turned out.  I spent a long time planning it in my head and on paper before I started building, and went slow while building.

Blimp/Pook - the only wood in the ground is the 2x4's that I used for initial alignment and stability while building.  They don't serve much of a purpose now except I'll extend them all the way up and attach the siding to them.  The posts are all on concrete several inches up.  Balsam just rots too easy to bury it.  One thing I did do was fill any existing borer holes with preservative, in case any new bugs get any ideas.

maplewood - my rafters are on 19.2" centers (that's about 48.8 cm for 'bert), which is five rafters per 8'.  I chose that mainly because that's about how many rafters I had without heading back into the woods for more, and the span tables seemed to be happy with it.  I was going to do 18" (one extra rafter in 24') but that doesn't work well with 3'-wide metal roof (purlin nails and roof screws line up).  I did not flatten the bottoms of the rafters, I just tossed them up there however they preferred to sit.  I did rearrange them to try to get maximal flatness on top.  When putting the purlins on (untreated 2x3 and 2x2 furring strips) I shimmed the lower rafters and shaved down the higher ones (only at the purlin connection) to get reasonably close.  It's nowhere near perfectly flat, but the metal roof really does hide flaws well.  Definitely the right choice for this project.  BTW - I think the most important tool for this project might have been a ball of string.  I aligned most everything with a taut string and a string level if needed.

There are some more pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/scholnik/Woodshed02?authkey=Gv1sRgCOX7x6XxhO3BYA&feat=directlink
I meant to take more intermediate ones but forgot as usual.  Some of the pallets are in and some wood stacked now, I'll post that soon.  (There was a pallet/tarp stack where the shed is now, that's the pile of wood you can see in the pics.  Only thing worse than stacking wood is stacking it twice!)  Siding pictures will have to wait until next summer, as I won't get a chance to do it this year.


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## Medman (Aug 20, 2010)

Cowboy Billy said:
			
		

> if you want some cedar posts in MI and want to drive *30 miles east of I-75 by Cedarville* I'll give you some. All you have to do is cut the stumps off branch them and  cut for your length.
> 
> Billy




Too bad they will no longer let us bring non-processed wood across the border - I have a need for some cedar posts and could have come down from the Soo and picked these up!  Where is your property - De Tour or on Drummond Island?  My wife has family very near you across the water on St. Joseph Island.


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## Cowboy Billy (Aug 20, 2010)

Howdy Medman

   Thats great! I'm in Pickford which is just north of Cedarville. I didn't know about hauling wood across the border I wish we would have done that with wood from overseas! I lost all the ash around my house 2-3 years ago and I hear they have the ash bores in Brimly and the Soo now. I'm headed back UP sunday for anouther week of fun in the woods.

Billy


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## 70marlin (Aug 20, 2010)

very nice job, whats copper naphthenate? and where do you buy it?


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## thewoodlands (Aug 20, 2010)

Looks great and blends in perfect.

zap


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 20, 2010)

70marlin said:
			
		

> very nice job, whats copper naphthenate? and where do you buy it?



It's similar to what they use to pressure treat lumber I think.  I got it at Menards in/near the paint section, ~$15 for a gallon can.  I think it was called "copper coat".  It's a green liquid (some other brands tint it brown).  According to the instructions is best to soak in it, but lacking any practical way to do that I settled for soaking the ends of the posts and brushing on two coats everywhere else.


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## Medman (Aug 20, 2010)

Cowboy Billy said:
			
		

> Howdy Medman
> 
> Thats great! I'm in Pickford which is just north of Cedarville. I didn't know about hauling wood across the border I wish we would have done that with wood from overseas! I lost all the ash around my house 2-3 years ago and I hear they have the ash bores in Brimly and the Soo now. I'm headed back UP sunday for anouther week of fun in the woods.
> 
> Billy




Yes, no more moving wood!  Lumber must be kiln-dried or pressure treated to come across, too - even though most of it comes from northern Ontario.  I buy most of my lumber/building supplies in the US (United Buliding Supply in Rudyard) because the dollar is now about even and the price is so much better in the US. No problems bringing most things back through the border, just some lumber and no unprocessed wood. Too bad, I guess I will have to pay for the poles somewhere on this side.


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## golfandwoodnut (Aug 22, 2010)

Now that is a man's shed, very impressive. Hope it last a long time.


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## wsorg (Aug 22, 2010)

Great looking shed!


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## maplewood (Aug 23, 2010)

Thank you for the link to the extra pictures.  It has given me more ideas for my own structure.
I appreciate it!
I'll have to set up a camera to take progressive shots of my attempt at a timber frame building.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 23, 2010)

Now with a little wood in it:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/THIBCnN3z4I/AAAAAAAAAkI/76IQkST-YRw/s800/p8213682.jpg


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## CALJREICH (Aug 24, 2010)

Now that is one nice rustic wood shed Very nice. I love this site and seeing posts like yours is one of the reasons I do. Your gonna enjoy your building for years. I enjoy just seeing pics of it.


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## Todd (Aug 24, 2010)

Excellent job, now you just need to fill her up.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 24, 2010)

I've got quite a few standing dead trees I've been ignoring.  Next summer filling it will be the major task.


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## Beetle-Kill (Aug 24, 2010)

If THAT were my shed, I'd not even think about siding it. Disco, your shed is awesome!! (just not full yet, so get off your arse, and get to work.) :coolgrin:


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm planning to use rough-sawn cedar or hemlock, something rustic.  Might even use slabwood.  We get a lot of snow w/ blowing and drifiting here, and without siding I'm afraid the wood will get wet a lot more often from melting snow.  The wood might be in there 10 or more years before I burn it - it's only a seasonal house right now, and with the new Fireview we don't burn more than a face cord per year.


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## firefighterjake (Aug 24, 2010)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> Now with a little wood in it:
> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/THIBCnN3z4I/AAAAAAAAAkI/76IQkST-YRw/s800/p8213682.jpg



As good as this shed looks now . . . trust me on this . . . it will look even better once filled with firewood. 

As for siding . . . I like your idea of using rough cut wood or slabs . . . it would look rustic . . . and do the job . . . namely being keeping the snow out of the shed. Again, nice job.


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## muncybob (Aug 24, 2010)

Good looking shed...I'll be doing something similar next month. We sided our 2 story barn with rough cut hemlock....has aged well. I applied one coat of stain/sealer after a year of drying out and it still looks good 15+ years later. Wood has maintained a brown color(from the stain) as opposed to the natural greying...either looks good to me.


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## PapaDave (Aug 24, 2010)

DiscoInferno said:
			
		

> Now with a little wood in it:
> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_J8_pVZfCTaY/THIBCnN3z4I/AAAAAAAAAkI/76IQkST-YRw/s800/p8213682.jpg



That right there is WAY cool!
To paraphrase Tom Hanks in CastAway, "I have made FIRE....WOOD."
Siding is a good idea too, do the side with prevailing winds first. Just in case you can't get it all done before the snows fly.
We're waiting for more pics. I'll be the first to do this, although probably not the first to get it done,..... here's a pic of a full shed (mostly).


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 24, 2010)

It's going to have to survive the coming winter naked, as I'm leaving tomorrow and probably won't do much when I'm back in the winter.  But I do hope to have it looking like yours come next summer.


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## maplewood (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm still looking at the pictures in detail.  Thanks again.  You've re-sparked my interest in my own project.
Where did you find the log balsam fir load tables?
I assume the posts under each beams are not the same height, but were adjusted to compensate for the different diameters of the log beam above it, so the finished beam was level?
Did you use anything between the bottom of each post and the top of the cement footing?
I'm thinking of peelilng my balsam fir logs this fall and covering them for the winter, so I can build in the spring.
You must be happy with your wood under the shed roof.  That's the place for it - out of the weather but in the wind.


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## DiscoInferno (Aug 24, 2010)

I did the same, peeled and treated most of the logs last summer, then tarped them.  I did lose a chunk of a beam due to a leak in the tarp and some busy ants.

You are correct, the posts were cut to both compensate for ground slope and for the beam taper.  However, the beams themselves were not perfectly straight and this led to some headaches.  The phrase "good enough for government work" was uttered more than once!  I don't have anything between the post and concrete, perhaps some some of water barrier would have been a good idea but I didn't think of anything.

Here are the American Wood Council's interactive span tables for joists and rafters:
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/reversecalc/reversecalc.asp
Choose "Eastern Hemlock and Balsam Fir".  I don't know what grade to call round timbers, I'd assume a low one.  These tables only list standard 2x dimensional lumber sizes: 2x4 (1.5"x3.5"), 2x6 (1.5"x5.5"), etc.  I figured out the conversion to round once, although I forget the details I have written down that the round equivalents of a 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10, and 2x12 are 3.2", 4.3", 5.3", 6.2", and 7.0" diameters, respectively.

I never found a really good span table for beams, I just used the biggest ones I had, which ran from 6-8" in diameter.


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