# Tractor size?



## SCOTT S. (Aug 28, 2017)

I have been looking at getting a tractor. One of the main uses would be to move ibc totes filled with fire wood. I was wondering if anyone would have some knowledge in this area. I would like to have the smallest tractor possible without overextending it's capabilities. Thanks


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## gzecc (Aug 30, 2017)

SCOTT S. said:


> I have been looking at getting a tractor. One of the main uses would be to move ibc totes filled with fire wood. I was wondering if anyone would have some knowledge in this area. I would like to have the smallest tractor possible without overextending it's capabilities. Thanks


How much will these totes weigh (loaded)? What else will you want the tractor to do, cut grass, pull trailers, snow removal etc... New or used?


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## SCOTT S. (Aug 31, 2017)

From what I have read my guess is about 1700 lbs for a tote filled with green oak. The main use will be firewood and some landscaping. I have a lawn tractor with a snowblower that's 12 years old when it dies I could see the tractor taking its place for snow removal.I'm looking used with a budget on 12k.


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## Ashful (Aug 31, 2017)

If you're talking about putting forks on the loader attachment, you're into some mighty big tractors at 1700 lb. lift capacity.  Think 40 hp stuff.

Here's the minimum rig Deere rates for 1700 lb.

https://www.deere.com/en/loaders/front-end-loaders-for-tractors/d170-loader/

If you're willing to move the tote with forks on the 3-point, there may be a few smaller (25 hp) category 1 compact utility tractors that could work.

You're well out of the garden tractor or sub-compact range, at 1700 lb.

The good news is that you'll be able to buy a REAL snow blower, if you're running category 1 or category 2 equipment.  Even on my rather tiny (1.3 liter diesel) category 1 tractor, I'm running a 64" Woods snowthrower.  At a total weight < 3000 lb. and only 19 hp rated to the PTO, I'm about maxed out with that snow thrower, but it gets the job done.

https://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/html/ag_turf/loader-compatibility/loader-compatibility.html

You can buy orange for less than Deere, if you don't mind the neighbors snickering at you.


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## kennyp2339 (Aug 31, 2017)

In the beginning of summer 2016 I bought a kioti 25hp compact tractor, it came with a front bucket, and backhoe, the drive train was hydro. I put about 35-40 hrs on the machine before I finally came to the conclusion that it was to small for my needs, yes having a smaller machine was kinda nice but it was very limited in the amount of work it could do. Last winter I traded (consignment sale) that tractor and bought a Kioti 40 hp, same hydro drivetrain, I've since put about 60 hrs on her and there hasn't been I job I couldn't do yet, this machine is mean in the woods, excels at lifting tree's, dragging logs, yet still surprising small enough to move around in tight places.
I the tractor world, a very wise man told me once (ahmm Ashful) that if buying a compact tractor, go as big as you can, or at least above 30hp. That small piece of advice is every bit worth its weight in gold.


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## TreePointer (Aug 31, 2017)

A used skid steer would also move a heavy tote and likely much easier and safer than a tractor.  They are also great with a snowblower attachment, but that's another $2-3000.

Just for reference, the bucket of the tractor in my avatar (see picture above my screen name) is 72" and is holding about 1/6 cord of green wood.  The FEL is rated at ~3000 lbs. max. at the pivot; however, that sexy number is only good on paper.  With a load extending out 20" from the pivot, it will max out just under 2400 lbs holding 5 feet off the ground and 1700 lbs to 9 feet off the ground.  Keeping the load low to the ground (say 6-12' inches) helps to move extra large loads, but moving on hills or uneven ground will make smaller loads necessary.

Because pallet forks can move the load's center-of-mass out even farther, the FEL has an even lower max lift rating when using them.  For instance, it's rated to llift 1320 lbs to 9 feet, but you also must subtract the weight of the pallet forks attachment from that number.

(Tractor is 43hp, 4-cylinder diesel and weighs 4000 lbs empty with FEL attached.  Deere classifies it as a CUT and not a sub-CUT.  Counterweight at the time was 600 lb. implement. Tires are air filled.)


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## Firemoore98 (Aug 31, 2017)

Sorry it took me a few days to respond to this thread my first born child was born last week and I wanted to get a chance to snap a few pics before I replied. 

I have been using the totes for several years in conjunction with my John Deere 1025R for my firewood years. 





This 1025R loader is capable of lifting a little over 1,000lbs at full height, but it can lift more like 1,250lbs about 1' off the ground. I have done a bit of testing with weights and find these numbers to be pretty close. It goes without saying you need something like 80% of loader weight in ballast to be safe for the tractor and prevent dangerous scenarios. 






I have over 20 totes filled to the maximum capacity my tractor will safely lift (again about 1,250lbs I can lift only about a foot off the ground). Also note there are a few different sized totes, some are 270 Gallo dish and some are 330ish gallons. These are the big ones. I got them from a plastic recycler that shreds the plastic tote and sold me the metal cages for $5 cash. I had to shop around for several years to find this deal, keep your eyes pealed deals are out there, the food grade totes go for big money, peepers love them, they usually go for @$75 each in my area and that's not necessary for a firewood guy. 




Here is a shot of my firewood processing area and a tote in the background. The totes get stored in a higher sun area. I keep them close to the splitter and use the pallet forks and tractor to haul them to their drying area. 

Please don't allow this to be controversial... as best I understand it from research a cord of dried ash firewood weights @ 2,800lbs. So if my totes weigh about 1,250, let's be conservative and say I'm getting about 1/3 cord per tote. All of my firewood in those totes was standing dead ash with an average moisture content of 15%. 

So in summary a small tractor like a 1025r is plenty up to the task of firewood tote hauling. Sure a larger tractor could lift a tote filled a little more, but I'm very happy with my firewood plan, I work a lot less hard than the average guy to burn 6-7 cords a year in my shop and to heat my house. 

Hope this helps

Jason


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## SCOTT S. (Aug 31, 2017)

I was hoping a 40hp would do it, much smaller and I wouldn't have the ground clearance I need in the woods lots of rock and uneven ground. I also didn't want a 70hp monster that takes half an acre to turn around. I don't care about the color except for parts availability for years to come.


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## Firemoore98 (Aug 31, 2017)

40hp will do it for sure, but having said that 25hp is not a pushover.  

I'm sure you will be happy with whatever you get, and couldn't agree more with what you said about parts availability/service, that trumps paint color in my book. My family has several farms in southern Ohio and my uncle has a great saying, "if you drag metal through dirt, your gonna break stuff" the ability to get it fixed quickly and economically is huge

Jason


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## Firemoore98 (Aug 31, 2017)

Firemoore98 said:


> 40hp will do it for sure, but having said that 25hp is not a pushover.
> 
> To haul a loaded tote at 1,250lbs or even filled more than mine at say 1,500lbs or more, you are gonna need your tractor on smooth terrain, even with ballast or your gonna be really pushing the safety limits of your tractor.
> 
> ...






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## TreePointer (Aug 31, 2017)

Firemoore98 said:


> ...my uncle has a great saying, "if you drag metal through dirt, your gonna break stuff" the ability to get it fixed quickly and economically is huge



Your uncle is a wise man.  I'l add to his statement by saying "...and learn to weld."


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## SCOTT S. (Aug 31, 2017)

I know several guys with 25-30hp tractors that are happy with them, I didn't mean to put them down. We have 60 acres of rock and craters. For me it's definitely more of a ground clearance thing than a lack of hp.


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## Firemoore98 (Aug 31, 2017)

I am not offended in the least.  I own one of the smallest tractors they make with a loader, I have to have broad shoulders right?

I was just trying to show you I am successful running a tote firewood operation with the minimum 25hp tractor SCUT class, anything bigger will certainly work too

Jason


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 1, 2017)

kennyp2339 said:


> I the tractor world, a very wise man told me once (ahmm Ashful) that if buying a compact tractor, go as big as you can, or at least above 30hp. That small piece of advice is every bit worth its weight in gold.



That settles it then.

I'm saving up for a Cat D8. Will the neighbors snicker if it's yellow?


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 1, 2017)

This was the little 25 HP, she could lift a pallet size load of *dried splits about a foot off the ground, ballast was key to keeping good traction.




And this is the 40 HP with little to no ballast


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## blades (Sep 1, 2017)

Problem with a skidsteer in the woods is no clearance under underneath for rock and stumps. tractor or SS each has it place-in a perfect world one of each would be nice. another thing about ss once ya raise the arms you are kinda stuck inside till you lower them again.

Have 32 hp Massey( 99 vintage) (  around 28 at the rear pto I think) only rated at 700 lbs for the bucket lift.


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## Ashful (Sep 1, 2017)

Mine is used mostly for spreading fertilizers, herbicides, and seed on the lawn, using a Herd M12 crop spreader or my 60 gal x 14' boom sprayer.  But it's also a snow and wood moving machine, despite being only 25 hp.  

Harvesting walnuts:

View attachment 199704


Setting up the tandem aerator:

View attachment 199699


Fitting up the mud and snow chains:, since I run turf tires for the lawn:

View attachment 199700


Drying off the snow thrower:

View attachment 199701


Stacking big rounds:

View attachment 199702


Collecting brush in fire pit.  

View attachment 199703


It's a versatile machine, for my needs.


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 1, 2017)

I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Sep 1, 2017)

SCOTT S. said:


> I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?


I do! I have a 1969 and a 1974 Wheel Horse!


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## Ashful (Sep 1, 2017)

SCOTT S. said:


> I have a good green tractor story. 12 years ago when I was buying my lawn tractor I had pretty much decided on a husqvarna with a Kawasaki motor. My wife had a client at the time that worked for the local jd dealer so she convinced me to take a look. They had the same size mower with the less expensive Briggs motor for $1000 more than the husky. I asked her client what makes the jd worth $1000 more his response was the prestige of owning a John Deere. My wife knew in that second he lost any chance of a sale. I just turned and walked out. Does anyone really feel prestige in their lawn mower?


Pretty sad.  It does seem Deere will put their name on just about anything these days, in the residential market.

But making a comparison on lawn tractors, when talking about CUT's or ag tractors, is like buying a house by comparing mailboxes.


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 1, 2017)

The point of my story was not that the husqvarna was a better lawn tractor it was the sales tactic. For all I know the jd was a better machine. Believe me if the right deal came my way I'd love to have a green tractor in shed.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 1, 2017)

Kubuta 4760


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## TreePointer (Sep 1, 2017)

Personally, I don't care aobut color.  In today's market, I'd probably have something orange for a CUT.  Years ago, some other brands hadn't been well established in many regions and couldn't guarantee or have the history that Deere did with having parts available for all its older tractors.

When I was living in another city in the 1990's, my father traded in our old Ford tractor for the JD CUT.  I came home to see the green machine in the barn and was shocked because my father had a reputation for never overpaying for anything.  I learned he got a decent deal on it because the JD dealership owner was a high school classmate of his.

As _Ashful _mentioned, the consumer grade lawn tractor market is a different beast.  Unfortunately, it's devolved into hitting a price point to compete with mass produced models by MTD and AYP.


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## kennyp2339 (Sep 1, 2017)

FYI, kioti company has owned bobcat for a long time, they seem to have the best warranty and turn around for parts. 
But as with anything the dealer is what makes the sale, the dealer by me is 10 min away, has a full service garage / shop and employes 10-12 full time staff that have been with him for many years. That says something to me and that's more or less how I ended up with that shade of orange in my garage.


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 1, 2017)

We have a bobcat dealer in the area I'm assuming the bobcat tractors are white kioti's?
I am in a good spot as far as repairs I'm fairly handy and have a good buddy up the road that's a heavy equipment mechanic so labor costs are usually measured in 12 packs. So as long as I buy something with long term parts availability I'm not to concerned about dealer support.


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## TreePointer (Sep 2, 2017)

My suggestion of a skid steer (Bobcat) was an attempt to cover all options.  The only two requirements mentioned early in this discussion were to move totes/pallets and snow removal, and a skid steer certainly excels at moving things on pallets.  As mentioned earlier, a utility tractor shows its versatility because it also can better handle uneven fields and woods.


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## Ashful (Sep 2, 2017)

BTW, don't assume you have to buy new.  That little tractor I showed in my "versatility" post was almost 30 years old, when I bought it.  Deere is still making and selling parts for 50 year old machines, so why not?  I bought it with the loader and a 72" mower deck for $8k, and put another $1k into it.  So, under $10k for more than $30k worth of machine.  I have all the money I need to have paid cash for a new one, without consideration, but I don't like throwing away $20k just to show neighbors I have the newest model.

At my usage rate around 100 hours per year, the old one is just as reliable, if not more so than some of the newer stuff.  I seem to have more hassles with my new ZTrak, than my old 855.


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 2, 2017)

Treepointer is right my original description of uses was not very specific and a skidsteer would have been a good choice.
 Ashful I'm in the same boat or will absolutely be a used machine. With certain brands I wouldn't have a problem going as far back as a 1970's tractor. My father in law is a farmer and has some new and some very old tractors his take is tractors from the 40's are the most reliable but the newer ones are much nicer to run. I will also be lucky to put 100 hours a year.


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## blades (Sep 2, 2017)

Just a note older machines eng wise are much simpler no tier3 and 4 +computers to deal with. The latest JD stuff is so computerized that it has become dang near impossible to do much of anything on it yourself. On the other end of the scale the box store units are not any better than the rest of the bunch  and , i as far as i can tell they are all using the same transaxel supplier,  which in the under 2 grand price point for hydro has proven to be a problem if you have anything other than baseball field terrain wise.


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## Firemoore98 (Sep 2, 2017)

Deere has a reputation for being the most expensive, and often times the msrp is indeed more than a competitors product. When I purchased my Deere 1025r tractor, loader, backhoe, mower deck, landscape rake and land leveler I priced out a comparable Kubota BX25 with all the same attachments and the Deere was @ $1,750 more. 

I took the written kubota quote and laid it all out there for my Deere salesman, meet or beat the price or I will financially be forced to go orange.  The Deere salesman grabbed his calculator and punched numbers in for a couple minutes and put his head up and said sure I can do that.  My wife (who usually isn't a great negotiator) said that's great you met the kubota quote, but we liked some things about that tractor more, my husband needs a Stihl pole chainsaw will you throw one of those in if we sign today?  The salesman swallowed hard and said I guess I could do that.  

Full disclosure I like Deere, sure as a kid I played with green tractor toys, but to me the dealer network is vast and parts availability has always been good. I am not in defense of Deere 100% I have had my issues with warranty work, but I'm pretty good at arguing and have usually gotten my way in the end.

Not trying to talk anyone into or out of a Deere, but high volume dealers can and will negotiate. I basically got the tractor I wanted, 0% 60month financing, made them price match a comparable kubota, and thanks to my wife they even threw in @$750 Stihl pole chainsaw.

Jason


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## Ashful (Sep 2, 2017)

SCOTT S. said:


> With certain brands I wouldn't have a problem going as far back as a 1970's tractor. My father in law is a farmer and has some new and some very old tractors his take is tractors from the 40's are the most reliable but the newer ones are much nicer to run. I will also be lucky to put 100 hours a year.



I figure 50 years is about as old as I'd like to run for regular use, based more on parts availability than anything else.  So, I do the quick math on how long I plan to keep it, and buy based on that.  If buying a new tractor today, and planning to keep it 20-25 years, I'd be shopping 1990-ish models.


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 3, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I figure 50 years is about as old as I'd like to run for regular use, based more on parts availability than anything else.  So, I do the quick math on how long I plan to keep it, and buy based on that.  If buying a new tractor today, and planning to keep it 20-25 years, I'd be shopping 1990-ish models.


That makes a lot of sense, that's probably where I'll start looking.


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## heavy hammer (Sep 4, 2017)

I have a 40 hp mahindra and Iam very happy with it.  With that being said I'm not trying to sell a brand, just saying I would get the biggest that you can easily afford and are comfortable with having on your property.  I liked the mahindra because it doesn't have DEF fluid or a diesel particulate filter.  If you are looking at used kubota makes a real nice product, just look for one without these emissions on them.  All makes and models have there pluses and minuses, find a dealer close, another reason I went mahindra dealer ten min from the house.  Good luck and once you get one put some pics up.  Another great thing for a tractor to look at for firewood is a grapple bucket.  I got mine this spring and love it best attackment there is for a tractor in my opinion!


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 9, 2017)

I tested a 35HP model and decided on the next model size up. Perhaps you have a neighbor or friend that would permit you to try their tractor on their land, or the dealer has several units to try and dirt to move around on the lot. In the past, I have always been a fan of smaller units that can be easily transported but it always took more time to get all the cheese. The unit I have now is a little of both. At 4700 pounds it is small enough to maneuver through the woods or on a trailer yet  I can put the bucket against a decent size tree and push it over and pop the root ball up. Reading over the website www.tractorbynet.com was really helpful for me to choose the tractor I purchased. I was able to read reviews, problems and benefits for  each unit.


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## heavy hammer (Sep 9, 2017)

That about hoe it went for me when I was looking to buy a tractor.  Plus they had the 35 hp sitting right next to the 40 hp one.  It was just more tractor for not a lot more money.  I'm glad I went bigger for the power lifting capacity and the pto hp.  I don't think their will be a project I couldn't handle with it.  What kind of tractor did you get Virginialron?


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## WoodyIsGoody (Sep 9, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> At 4700 pounds it is small enough to maneuver through the woods or on a trailer yet  I can put the bucket against a decent size tree and push it over and pop the root ball up.



True. But the Cat D8 I'm saving up for, I don't even need to use the blade to push a decent sized tree over, I can just back over it! Executing a sharp turn at the same time takes care of the root ball. Waaay more productive. I just hope the neighbors don't snicker because it's not green (it's bright yellow).


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## SCOTT S. (Sep 9, 2017)

So what tractor did you end up with Virginiairon?


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 9, 2017)

I got a 2004  Branson 3520, and lol.... it isn't a D8. I think I would need a couple hundred more acres and a larger truck and trailer to justify it. I get buyers remorse very easily but I have never regretted this purchase. The only problem I had was the fuel gage sender and a weak fuel pump. The battery is the original unit.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 10, 2017)

blades said:


> Just a note older machines eng wise are much simpler no tier3 and 4 +computers to deal with....


I got an old '51 T020 Ferguson with loader and now I use it for weekly mowing. Parts are plentiful. I replaced the manifolds and rebuilt the starter and just recently replaced the battery after seven years. I have been planning on painting it, but I like red and I have not decided if I want to change the color. 





	

		
			
		

		
	
 .


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Sep 10, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> I got an old '51 T020 Ferguson with loader and now I use it for weekly mowing. Parts are plentiful. I replaced the manifolds and rebuilt the starter and just recently replaced the battery after seven years. I have been planning on painting it, but I like red and I have not decided if I want to change the color.
> 
> 
> View attachment 199997
> ...


That's a beautiful vintage tractor. I like the way she looks, but around here, with all the humidity and rain, I'd probably give her a fresh paint job just to keep the rust at bay.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 10, 2017)

ED 3000 said:


> That's a beautiful vintage tractor. I like the way she looks, but around here, with all the humidity and rain, I'd probably give her a fresh paint job just to keep the rust at bay.


 Thanks. I'm not much on the paint I'm more of an advocate for functionality and reliability. However there is a contradiction because I do like shiny things and it's nice to look at a piece of equipment  that is shiny. A downside to the lack of paint that I do admittedly overlook more on metal than wood is that the  surfaces begin to deteriorate. And, unfortunately every time I look at that reliable tractor I do say to myself I need to paint it- or build that three bay garage and get it out of the weather, wink. Thank you for being a voice of affirmation and or encouragement, maybe I'll paint it this fall.


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 16, 2017)

heavy hammer said:


> That about hoe it went for me when I was looking to buy a tractor.  Plus they had the 35 hp sitting right next to the 40 hp one.  It was just more tractor for not a lot more money.  I'm glad I went bigger for the power lifting capacity and the pto hp.  I don't think their will be a project I couldn't handle with it.  What kind of tractor did you get Virginialron?


After deciding on this model I thought about the 40hp for about $1k more. I was concerned that the same engine was being used at max power and it was a first year design. To me the 5hp was not worth the risk so I passed. FYI- I have not heard any negatives about or problems with this turbo design.


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## jwfirebird (Sep 21, 2017)

i have a 05 new holland tc30, looks like the branson above only blue. i dont think they are made by them i dont think any of the smaller ones are made by the people you think. i have run a ton of different ones, i think for a home owner though 30 hp is the sweet spot not too heavy, you just end up digging up stuff. the tc30 runs 6ft stuff and will lift 1600 on the back, but with a 5ft brush hog it operates with authority. its 4wd, hydrostatic, 2000lbs without a loader or backhoe and that how it will stay, it doesnt get stuck or dig up the woods or atv paths when i am getting wood or mowing. and i got it for 4k because no one thinks of them when looking. just as reliable as a deere, maintenance costs the same too unfortunately though but they rarely break. i have seen a bunch with the loader for 10k, i got a box blade, and mowers though i dont think i would use a loader certainly not enough justify 4k for a new one. you can do alot with a box blade and it was like 500. i think the only other i will do for it is make a pole to lift logs on the back, that would be handier than just a chain

also dragging and lifting things from that back is way better for the tractor and trying to move heavy stuff then from the front, with a load it gets unstable, and will end up stuck if not 4wd


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 21, 2017)

I will never buy a 2wd tractor ever again.  I've had my bucket loaded with my subframe in mud and it kept going. Additionally, I would always have a loader Since it is more reliable, typically, than a hired hand and is always hanging around 24/7. I have used the bucket to get me out of a bind. But for mowing my loader comes off with two pins and 4 quick connect hoses- off in a minute and on in no more than 5. The backhoe is mounted with a subframe and comes off in about 5 minutes and on in about 10. I looked at that very same model and the green equivalent before I made my purchase, my savings were just around $12k for a similarly equipped model. I was told the greens hoe came from the same factory and was painted green.


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## sloeffle (Sep 22, 2017)

Having lived with a JD / Yanmar 770 for the past 15 years I can tell you that if you are wanting to move full totes of firewood that you will be a lot happier with a 40+HP CUT ( weight, loader capacity ) vs a 25 - 30HP SCUT. A 700lb round bale is about all my JD can move while still feeling safe. The smaller tractors just don't have the weight to counterbalance big loads ( 1500lbs + ) safely. My buddy has a 40+HP JD CUT and he can work circles around me. His tractor is also a hydrostat. I wouldn't get a geared tractor if you plan on doing a lot of loader work.

I am currently in the market for a new CUT to replace my 770. I have been looking at Kubota MX4800 and JD 4044M or 4044R. The reason I have focused on those two brands:

Parts are readily available. I won't have to wait for more than a few days.
Multiple dealerships within a 30 minute drive
They have a history of making good machines and backing them up.
I can talk to people on daily basis that have a JD or a Kubota with 5K hours on it. IMHO, this it the biggest one.


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## Ashful (Sep 22, 2017)

sloeffle said:


> Having lived with a JD / Yanmar 770 for the past 15 years I can tell you that if you are wanting to move full totes of firewood that you will be a lot happier with a 40+HP CUT ( weight, loader capacity ) vs a 25 - 30HP SCUT. A 700lb round bale is about all my JD can move while still feeling safe. The smaller tractors just don't have the weight to counterbalance big loads ( 1500lbs + ) safely. My buddy has a 40+HP JD CUT and he can work circles around me. His tractor is also a hydrostat. I wouldn't get a geared tractor if you plan on doing a lot of loader work.
> 
> I am currently in the market for a new CUT to replace my 770. I have been looking at Kubota MX4800 and JD 4044M or 4044R. The reason I have focused on those two brands:
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with what you're saying, but having owned the ever so slightly older and bigger 850, I'll say you can't go on HP alone.  A 30 year old diesel CUT rated at 25 - 30 HP is a much more substantial machine than some of the sub-compact toys they rate 25 HP today.  My machine is only rated 25 hp, but weighs just shy of 4000 lb with my loader and ballast installed, and I'd be over 4500 lb. if I followed the manual's insistence on filled tires for loader application.  You're not going to find many new 4000 lb. machines with 25 hp motors, the way they monkey with HP ratings today, and I still always have more HP than traction on that old machine.

Agreed, loaders should ONLY go on hydrostatic 4x4 machines with power steering.  I've driven manual steering and manual geared tractors with loaders, and they are miserable.  Putting a loader on a 2wd machine is just dangerous, unless you have the convenience and patience to always back down hills.

I'm surprised you're having an issue with parts on your 770.  My Deere dealer still stocks most of what I need for my 1986 machine, or can get anything they don't have inside a day or three.  The cost of those parts has been going up each year, though.


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## blades (Sep 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Nothing wrong with what you're saying, but having owned the ever so slightly older and bigger 850, I'll say you can't go on HP alone.  A 30 year old diesel CUT rated at 25 - 30 HP is a much more substantial machine than some of the sub-compact toys they rate 25 HP today.  My machine is only rated 25 hp, but weighs just shy of 4000 lb with my loader and ballast installed, and I'd be over 4500 lb. if I followed the manual's insistence on filled tires for loader application.  You're not going to find many new 4000 lb. machines with 25 hp motors, the way they monkey with HP ratings today, and I still always have more HP than traction on that old machine.
> 
> Agreed, loaders should ONLY go on hydrostatic 4x4 machines with power steering.  I've driven manual steering and manual geared tractors with loaders, and they are miserable.  Putting a loader on a 2wd machine is just dangerous, unless you have the convenience and patience to always back down hills.
> 
> I'm surprised you're having an issue with parts on your 770.  My Deere dealer still stocks most of what I need for my 1986 machine, or can get anything they don't have inside a day or three.  The cost of those parts has been going up each year, though.


 cost of parts for anything has been rising steadily for years. it is a major profit center for dealers and mfg.


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## sloeffle (Sep 23, 2017)

Ashful said:


> I'm surprised you're having an issue with parts on your 770. My Deere dealer still stocks most of what I need for my 1986 machine, or can get anything they don't have inside a day or three. The cost of those parts has been going up each year, though.



I have had zero problems with my 770 other than a couple seals going out in my loader. Was able to order the parts online and pick them up from the dealer the next day. Why I am hesitant on getting a new machine. Hard to sell something that you never have problems with. My tractor is 4WD and I always have an implement on the back when doing loader work. Like you said, the manual gear box sucks.


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## sloeffle (Sep 23, 2017)

Stupid iPad wouldn't let me quote you twice.



Ashful said:


> Nothing wrong with what you're saying, but having owned the ever so slightly older and bigger 850, I'll say you can't go on HP alone. A 30 year old diesel CUT rated at 25 - 30 HP is a much more substantial machine than some of the sub-compact toys they rate 25 HP today.



Yep, I know my 1959 2WD Fordson could pull around any 60HP built today.


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## sen166 (Sep 23, 2017)

I am going to side with VirginiaIron on this question.. I am the proud owner of a 1952 Ford 8N (and previously a 1950 Ford 8N that I gave to my Father) and could not be happier.  The older tractors are so much easier to work on yourself without the reliance of a dealership.  Heck, the Old Man and I even sold our John Deere 2210 SCUT with a front end loader because we enjoyed the ease of maintenance on the Ford 8N so much; there isn't a thing you can't do yourself with these old machines maintenance wise.  Everything is easily accessible when working on them.  Not to mention these tractors pack plenty of power for gasoline engines.

On the other hand, when there was a leaky front axel seal on the John Deere 2210, we had to take it to the dealer so they could remove the entire front end to simply replace a small seal in the front axel.

These reliable tractors can often be purchased in the ball park of $2500-$3000 for a sound working machine along with several attachments, which is even a bigger bonus.  If you're not shy to running a gear shift, vintage and reliable tractor, I would take a look at some of the old Ford, Massey Ferguson, Farmall, and International tractors.


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## BrotherBart (Sep 23, 2017)

sen166 said:


> I am going to side with VirginiaIron on this question.. I am the proud owner of a 1952 Ford 8N (and previously a 1950 Ford 8N that I gave to my Father) and could not be happier.  The older tractors are so much easier to work on yourself without the reliance of a dealership.  Heck, the Old Man and I even sold our John Deere 2210 SCUT with a front end loader because we enjoyed the ease of maintenance on the Ford 8N so much; there isn't a thing you can't do yourself with these old machines maintenance wise.  Everything is easily accessible when working on them.  Not to mention these tractors pack plenty of power for gasoline engines.
> 
> On the other hand, when there was a leaky front axel seal on the John Deere 2210, we had to take it to the dealer so they could remove the entire front end to simply replace a small seal in the front axel.
> 
> These reliable tractors can often be purchased in the ball park of $2500-$3000 for a sound working machine along with several attachments, which is even a bigger bonus.  If you're not shy to running a gear shift, vintage and reliable tractor, I would take a look at some of the old Ford, Massey Ferguson, Farmall, and International tractors.




Ah the memories of Grandpa farming two hundred acres and putting six kids through school with that 8n. Some of it with me sitting on the fender. Wish I had one.


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## jwfirebird (Sep 29, 2017)

same here, 8n was the first one i drove too, but a lot of them are just restored to put around. they use a ton of gas, anything before 80s gas. i used like 11 gallons in the 4400 with 5ft cutter mowing 6-10acres so 30-40 bucks vs 25 every couple times in my tc30. shibura diesel hardly any fuel used


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## VirginiaIron (Sep 29, 2017)

I run my diesel engine conservatively and I think the last time I checked I was running about a gallon an hour. The Ferguson uses more gas than that but much less than my Craftsman 5000/24hp/48" Kohler and has cut my seat time down almost in half since I went from 48" to 72". I was using the Branson for mowing up until I got the Ferguson.
EDIT- Also, the Ferguson can run super slow and the governor prevents it from stalling out. One could almost call it a ghost tractor plowing if you were crazy enough to get off when it was rolling.


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## jwfirebird (Oct 1, 2017)

massey makes a nice tractor, if i was rich it would just be a massey 30hp compact, like a 30 15 or 16. loaders and backhoes are alot on those but they have the best ease of use and maintenance. 

i have a to style one too, but diesel industrial with a backhoe and loader, shuttle and the backhoe slides sideways and you move side to side on the seat so you dont have to crank your head back and forth. pretty advanced for back then. been thinking about getting rid of that though old tractors are to heavy for my area, and alot to keep up, would rather just have a qa loader and backhoe for my tc

i hve the similar for my yard only mow when spring is real wet with the tc, i have a craftsman 4400, with 26 kohler and 54in, and 60in offset and that takes like two hours. before that had a mtd with the b and s 17.5 like all the deere and husky crap, leaky and wore (plastic gears and crap in engine) out all the time, took 4hrs too, same abuse and yard after many years only have put oil and filters and belts on it


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## Sodbuster (Oct 13, 2017)

I have a Mahindra 4035, and love it. I traded my old 1974 Massey Ferguson for it. It was a short learning curve, the new smaller diesels need to rev to make full power, and don't like to lug. I could lug the 4 cylinder Perkins on the Massey all day. I've had have my tractor for a couple years, and really enjoy not getting stuck. It will arround 2400lbs, but at the pins, not with pallet forks attached to the bucket. It's super stingy with fuel for the amount of work I can get done.Last winter we had a blizzard, and my wife was getting concerned because I hadn't plowed the driveway yet (600'). I wanted to wait until it stopped blowing and snowing to plow, so i plowed anyway to make her happy. I moved 18" of wet snow using my back blade like it wasn't even there, barely had to bump the throttle. It's my main firewood getter with the splitter in tow and the bucket full of saws/gas and tool box.


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## Ashful (Oct 13, 2017)

Interesting question:  Is there a CUT still made in the USA?

Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know).  Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese.  No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago.  That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.

It seems a lot of the newer "budget" brands are from India.  Like Japan in the 1970's, this makes sense.  Like Japan, China, and the long list of other countries we have exploited for cheap manufacturing, things start out rough, but quality improves with time.  So does cost.

But for the die-hard, who wanted to buy a machine made in USA at any cost, does it even exist?


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## Fiziksgeek (Oct 13, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Interesting question:  Is there a CUT still made in the USA?
> 
> Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know).  Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese.  No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago.  That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.
> 
> ...




I have a Massey Ferguson, built by Iseki in Japan, but the loader and backhoe are from Alo industries in Tennessee, and the snow blower comes from Rad Tech in Canada.

Kubota is the most "integrated" manufacturer, in that their tractors, engines, loader, backhoes are all built by Kubota. Though I would assume they will have components made all over...not just in Japan..

Ummm...I believe the John Deere 1000, 3000 and 4000 series have Yanmar engines, but are built/assembled here in Georgia. That's probably as close as you will get to a US product.  I think the 2000 series are built by Yanmar completely (though it might have changes with the newest line up), and I believe the 5000 series are now "built" in India, or at leas the economy models.  I don't believe you'll find any tractor, and in fact hardly anything at all, where all the components are US made AND all the assembly is done here in the US...


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## Sodbuster (Oct 13, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Interesting question:  Is there a CUT still made in the USA?
> 
> Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know).  Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese.  No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago.  That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, the short answer is no. Mine was "assemled" in the USA, which probably means they put the wheels on.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 13, 2017)

Sodbuster said:


> I have a Mahindra 4035, and love it. I traded my old 1974 Massey Ferguson for it. It was a short learning curve, the new smaller diesels need to rev to make full power, and don't like to lug. I could lug the 4 cylinder Perkins on the Massey all day. I've had have my tractor for a couple years, and really enjoy not getting stuck. It will arround 2400lbs, but at the pins, not with pallet forks attached to the bucket. It's super stingy with fuel for the amount of work I can get done.Last winter we had a blizzard, and my wife was getting concerned because I hadn't plowed the driveway yet (600'). I wanted to wait until it stopped blowing and snowing to plow, so i plowed anyway to make her happy. I moved 18" of wet snow using my back blade like it wasn't even there, barely had to bump the throttle. It's my main firewood getter with the splitter in tow and the bucket full of saws/gas and tool box.


I liked that model and wanted it before I test drove it, it was a beast. The problem I believed I had with it was the gear shift location and the operation of the loader. This model may not have been assembled correctly- when I was test driving it on the lot, down a side sloped embankment the loader started to sway left and right and I had to stop to break the cycle. It looked as if there were bushings missing and the pins were too loose. I checked a smaller model and it definitely appeared that the design was using bushings, but those bushings appeared to be constructed of some sort of nylon. The gear shift location was causing my right leg to cramp. Does your loader have bushings at the pivot pins?


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## Sodbuster (Oct 14, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> I liked that model and wanted it before I test drove it, it was a beast. The problem I believed I had with it was the gear shift location and the operation of the loader. This model may not have been assembled correctly- when I was test driving it on the lot, down a side sloped embankment the loader started to sway left and right and I had to stop to break the cycle. It looked as if there were bushings missing and the pins were too loose. I checked a smaller model and it definitely appeared that the design was using bushings, but those bushings appeared to be constructed of some sort of nylon. The gear shift location was causing my right leg to cramp. Does your loader have bushings at the pivot pins?




Wow, not sure what they gave you to drive, but mine has no nylon bushings, just steel pins through steel sleeves, with zerk grease fittings.. Almost sounds like they didn't attach the detachable loader correctly. I have moved well over 400 tons of sand, crushed asphalt, and dirt with mine and no problems. As far as the shifter location, I have the shuttle shift. To my left I have 3 ranges High, Medium and Low. To the right I have gear selectors 1st through 4th. I can select any range and gear combination and then use a forward/reverse lever to go forward or reverse without touching the clutch. None of the shift levers are remotely near your legs. It's an open center tractor, meaning the shift levers are not over the transmission like the older tractors.


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## Ashful (Oct 14, 2017)

Gear shift on a CUT with a loader?  Maybe before 1965... but why on earth would anyone buy such a thing today?!?

Surely, you meant something else, when you said gear shift???


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 14, 2017)

Sodbuster said:


> ... As far as the shifter location, I have the shuttle shift. To my left I have 3 ranges High, Medium and Low. To the right I have gear selectors 1st through 4th. ...


Pardon my inability to properly identify the "gear selector". I meant gear selector.  When I was using the tractor in first or second gear, the stick was too far into the platform area for me to be comfortable. In order not to touch or put pressure on the stick from my right leg,  I needed to draw my leg into the center of the platform in a certain way and that was causing "my" leg to begin to cramp. As far as the loader sway, maybe the bushings weren't nylon, BUT there was so much slop (machined-not ware) at the pin location it was a deal breaker. It was such a disappointment, maybe the seat was not adjusted correctly or maybe it was a different tractor.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 14, 2017)

EDIT- I added one photo for a what I think is might be more accurate photograph. I do not know if the loader was a pedastle mount or incorporated a control tower.
 2003/2004 This is what it looked like but I do not recall if it had this exact loader, or if it had a control tower crowding my leg or a separate stick. It was a Mahindra. I believe it was a 4035 or one larger and it had this same tire ratio. I remember the tire size ratio Made it look so much more stronger than all the other tractors in the size I was looking at. Now, to be fair, the dealer did have several Loader manufacturers that were offered with new tractors, but the after market loaders all looked odd on the tractors and I was not interested in those models. This loader, I believe, was from the factory and appeared matched OEM equipment- something I definitely remembered. It swayed like a 3 point hitch that wasn't properly taken up.


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## Sodbuster (Oct 14, 2017)

Odd, when mine is in 1st gear, the shifter isn't anywhere near my leg, you must be a big guy.


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## Sodbuster (Oct 14, 2017)

Ashful said:


> Gear shift on a CUT with a loader?  Maybe before 1965... but why on earth would anyone buy such a thing today?!?
> 
> Surely, you meant something else, when you said gear shift???




Not sure who this was directed at, but mines not a true gear shift, it's like John Deere's PowerReverser. I rarely need to touch the clutch. M3 is about perfect for everything,


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 14, 2017)

It was directed at my comment about the gear shift.


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## Ashful (Oct 14, 2017)

The last tractor I used with a manual trans and a loader was a 1970’s Deere 750.  What an incredibly inconvenient combo!  Every other FEL I’ve used has been hydrostatic.  It’s the only way to roll, IMO.


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## jwfirebird (Oct 15, 2017)

true, would think it would be hard to find a real manual any more. i wouldnt buy anything but a hydro anymore, mine operates fine and you never have to mess with the throttle 

dont think you can buy a really made in in the usa one anymore, the big american brands outsource the compact and subs. my new holland is japanese, i think made by the same people as the LS ones. it has a shubura diesel, can be lugged as much as any older one i have. the deeres i have ran they were a little worse but most of the time i ran the 110 we had at work half rpm of the 540 mark for digging and using the loader, 3/4 using the bobcat brush mower in heavy stuff, that was a cut too basically a yanmar CUT with yellow plastic to make it 4 times the cost

the massey i havent run but by the sounds of the reviews it has to be run very high to mow, unlike my nh, you never know though, some people do all of them because thats how they learn or whatever but i have to pay for my own fuel and maintenance so im running it as low as it will not lug


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## Ashful (Oct 15, 2017)

jwfirebird said:


> that was a cut too basically a yanmar CUT with yellow plastic to make it 4 times the cost


It's not the yellow plastic that makes it cost more, it's maintaining a dealer network and marketing (advertising costs) that make it cost more.  Let's face it, you can't just walk into a Yanmar dealer and get the parts you need off the shelf to fix your tractor, when it breaks.  But for all of those brands selling re-badged Yanmars, you can count on them to usually have the parts you need on the shelf that day.  There's a lot of cost associated with that.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 15, 2017)

jwfirebird said:


> ...the massey i havent run but by the sounds of the reviews it has to be run very high to mow, unlike my nh, you never know though, some people do all of them because thats how they learn or whatever but i have to pay for my own fuel and maintenance so im running it as low as it will not lug


I only have one small hydro and I am not sure I like it. [EDIT- (clarification) With gear models,] 99% of the time, I am using my fuel pedal and I am at idle for clutch operation and gear changes. I believe this prolongs the life of the throwout bearings and synchronizers. There are times when I run manual throttle to prevent lugging during heavy work. The last two hydro tractors I tested would not lift the front wheels for servicing the front end or changing a tires, I guess the hydro was fighting the loader even under mid-rpm. How much HP does the hydro use from the overall engine HP?


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## Ashful (Oct 15, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> I only have one small hydro and I am not sure I like it. 99% of the time, I am using my fuel pedal and I am at idle for clutch operation and gear changes. I believe this prolongs the life of the throwout bearings and synchronizers.


No throwout bearings or synchro's to damage in a hydro machine.



VirginiaIron said:


> The last two hydro tractors I tested would not lift the front wheels for servicing the front end or changing a tires, I guess the hydro was fighting the loader even under mid-rpm. How much HP does the hydro use from the overall engine HP?


This does't make any sense to me.  You're implying you're stalling the engine?  If not, engine HP has nothing to do with it.  More often, it's the accessory bypass that unloads, when pushing high loads on the loader.  This has everything to do with the litigious society in which we live, and the manufacturer's fear of liability, and nothing to do with hydro vs. manual transmission.

Modern loaders are set up to bypass at a "safe" weight, to minimize tipping and loss of braking hazards.  Since folks are often comparing new hydro machines to old manual machines, they get it in their head it's a "hydro vs. manual" thing, when it's really a "new vs. old" thing.


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## jwfirebird (Oct 16, 2017)

exactly right, that 110 will pick up the front but barely, its a 30 or 35 hp, while the 70s 4400 we had same hp would probably lift 50 percent more. it toned down hydraulic system on the newer stuff


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 16, 2017)

Ashful said:


> No throwout bearings or synchro's to damage in a hydro machine.
> 
> 
> This does't make any sense to me.  You're implying you're stalling the engine?  If not, engine HP has nothing to do with it.  More often, it's the accessory bypass that unloads, when pushing high loads on the loader.  This has everything to do with the litigious society in which we live, and the manufacturer's fear of liability, and nothing to do with hydro vs. manual transmission. Modern loaders are set up to bypass at a "safe" weight, to minimize tipping and loss of braking hazards.  Since folks are often comparing new hydro machines to old manual machines, they get it in their head it's a "hydro vs. manual" thing, when it's really a "new vs. old" thing.


I'm sorry, I thought I placed a period between the two sentences. The fuel pedal operation applies to gear models equipped with a foot pedal throttle- I will clarify, thanks. I never implied that I was stalling the engine. I attempted to lift the front end, with the bucket's face toward the ground, using the loader, and those tractors would not do anything at idle and mid throttle. It didn't make sense to me either as all gear loaders I have operated would lift the front end and drag the rear tires if necessary. These were brand new tractors. During operation, just the hydro and not the work being performed, is parasitic to the engine HP.


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## Fiziksgeek (Oct 16, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> I'm sorry, I thought I placed a period between the two sentences. The fuel pedal operation applies to gear models equipped with a foot pedal throttle- I will clarify, thanks. I never implied that I was stalling the engine. I attempted to lift the front end, with the bucket's face toward the ground, using the loader, and those tractors would not do anything at idle and mid throttle. It didn't make sense to me either as all gear loaders I have operated would lift the front end and drag the rear tires if necessary. These were brand new tractors. During operation, just the hydro and not the work being performed, is parasitic to the engine HP.



Something still doesn't make sense. Yes, hydro take a little power, but its not more than a couple horsepower. Some tractors like Kubota's little BX, need a little throttle before you get any appreciable hydraulic power. My Massey Ferguson has full strength at idle. Once the pump has enough input to develop pressure, the only thing extra throttle gets you in flow, which equated to speed int eh hydraulics. If you can't lift the front end off floor, you're either have 1) a geometry problem, ie the tractor can't lift the front end in the position  you were trying...you said bucket face toward the ground? That seems weird to me, did you put the bucket flat on the ground (face forward) and try the dump/curl circuit? Or 2) you have a hydraulic problem...such as an issues with the relief valve as mentioned.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 16, 2017)

The bucket position flat on the ground only left about 2 inches travel on the rods. I tried this with the bucket's blade on the ground or the face/opening toward the ground. This position gives more travel, about 8 inches on my loader and permits the removal of the wheel, rather than getting a jack.- don't forget the blocking or the jack stand. BUT, more importantly, if you get the tractor stuck or the front end in a bind or sunk in mud, it permits planking the soil's surface below the tire. And, also permits the operator to use the bucket's edge (in a curling motion) to push the rear of the tractor backwards onto a more solid ground or a surface with more traction- reducing the chances of needing a pull or a wrecker service.


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## Ashful (Oct 16, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> The bucket position flat on the ground only left about 2 inches travel on the rods. I tried this with the bucket's blade on the ground or the face/opening toward the ground. This position gives more travel, about 8 inches on my loader and permits the removal of the wheel, rather than getting a jack.- don't forget the blocking or the jack stand. BUT, more importantly, if you get the tractor stuck or the front end in a bind or sunk in mud, it permits planking the soil's surface below the tire. And, also permits the operator to use the bucket's edge (in a curling motion) to push the rear of the tractor backwards onto a more solid ground or a surface with more traction- reducing the chances of needing a pull or a wrecker service.


I think the limitations you observed with that machine were unique to that one model, and not a good representation of "hydro vs. manual transmission" tractor comparison.  I've seen many hydro machines that have no problem lifting the front end off the ground.  Also, I wouldn't consider the possibility that I might have to increase engine RPM X% above idle to pick the front end of the machine up off the ground as any relevant factor in comparing tractors, it just wouldn't factor in to how I use the machine on a daily basis.  I frequently find myself increasing engine RPM for the sake of hydraulic speed, but almost never for the sake of hydraulic force, I just hate waiting for a bucket to curl.


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## Fiziksgeek (Oct 17, 2017)

VirginiaIron said:


> The bucket position flat on the ground only left about 2 inches travel on the rods. I tried this with the bucket's blade on the ground or the face/opening toward the ground. This position gives more travel, about 8 inches on my loader and permits the removal of the wheel, rather than getting a jack.- don't forget the blocking or the jack stand. BUT, more importantly, if you get the tractor stuck or the front end in a bind or sunk in mud, it permits planking the soil's surface below the tire. And, also permits the operator to use the bucket's edge (in a curling motion) to push the rear of the tractor backwards onto a more solid ground or a surface with more traction- reducing the chances of needing a pull or a wrecker service.



Definitely curious. Were you holding the brakes by chance? I could believe not having enough curl force to lift the tractor with the bucket edge down into the ground like that and the brakes on. I've used both my bucket to help push back...and my backhoe to drag me out.....Neither has been a problem. Anyway.....

I'd like to add that the hydraulic performance of the loader is different and separate issue from the performance of the hydrostatic transmission....A hydro transmission should sacrifice less than 2 hp at the PTO. A hydrostatic transmission is far superior for loader work or anything requiring you to change direction of travel a lot. If you don't need to change forward/reverse a lot, then a gear tractor is just fine, brush hogging large fields for example.


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## VirginiaIron (Oct 17, 2017)

And, to be fair to me, there is only so much testing a dealer will permit a stranger to make with machines that have .2 hours on them


Fiziksgeek said:


> Definitely curious. Were you holding the brakes by chance? I could believe not having enough curl force to lift the tractor with the bucket edge down into the ground like that and the brakes on. I've used both my bucket to help push back...and my backhoe to drag me out.....Neither has been a problem. Anyway.....
> 
> I'd like to add that the hydraulic performance of the loader is different and separate issue from the performance of the hydrostatic transmission....A hydro transmission should sacrifice less than 2 hp at the PTO. A hydrostatic transmission is far superior for loader work or anything requiring you to change direction of travel a lot. If you don't need to change forward/reverse a lot, then a gear tractor is just fine, brush hogging large fields for example.


No I wasn't holding my brakes but it did seem as if the hydro was fighting the lifting. Even then, all gear loaders I have used will drag the rear wheels if the brake was on- my gear loaders did this at idle.


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