# new wood hydronic boiler



## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 8, 2018)

hello,

Im new here but i am building a new house and have installed hydronics in my entire house in a slab on grade. The house is 2500sf of heated space and i would like to install a wood hydronic boiler but the research has proved daunting. I also own a sawmill so i have a never ending supply of wood scraps to burn so i would defiantly like to go with a wood fired boiler. Can you guys give me some guidance and list some boiler options?

 I live in western Wyoming so we do get some pretty good cold spells. We had hydronics in our last house and loved them but they were run off an electric boiler. This one i want to go with a wood boiler for sure and i would also like it to be an indoor boiler.  I have been doing hours of research online and i haven't found too many options, it seems like a lot of boiler companies are either out of business or the ones that are in business are crazy expensive. thanks for any help!


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## peakbagger (Dec 8, 2018)

Crazy expensive is a relative term. In order to make a EPA compliant wood boiler it needs storage and several firms will not guarantee a wood boiler installation without storage. Hard to beat a Froling from Tarm Biomass.


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## Bad LP (Dec 8, 2018)

Explain "crazy expensive".
Anything from Tarm is good stuff and their customer service is excellent. Varmebaronen also looked very good when I was doing my research. As I was just finishing up my research and struggling on what to buy a used Tarm unit came up on this site and I bought it and installed it alongside with my local HVAC company who is also a Tarm reseller. My buddy who works for said HVAC company was rather well versed on the install and it works 100% seamless with my LP boiler. 

FWIW the Varm guys spoke highly of the Tarm guys and my conversation with them was brutally honest. They pointed me away from some boilers with some good solid reasons.


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## peakbagger (Dec 8, 2018)

Its confusing but HS Tarm is no longer imported and Tarm Biomass is now selling Frolings.


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## BoiledOver (Dec 8, 2018)

For an indoor wood boiler, the Eko units (linked here) are about as affordably priced as they come. They are gasification units and will require thermal storage. Without storage, forget it. Although they state the 25kW will heat up to 2500 square feet, I would recommend the 40kW unit for your home. The 40 has longer exchange tubes and a larger primary firebox which will make for a faster recharging of the storage tank.

Thermal storage tanks can be purchased, or like some members here have done, acquire decommissioned propane tank(s) and convert to your liking. The Eko line of boilers are very basic and built for the long run. An easier way to go would be with a Garn or Switzer model, they have storage built into the unit and are basically plug and play. The down side is the up front cost of those two manufacturers. They are built for the long run also.


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## maple1 (Dec 8, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> hello,
> 
> Im new here but i am building a new house and have installed hydronics in my entire house in a slab on grade. The house is 2500sf of heated space and i would like to install a wood hydronic boiler but the research has proved daunting. I also own a sawmill so i have a never ending supply of wood scraps to burn so i would defiantly like to go with a wood fired boiler. Can you guys give me some guidance and list some boiler options?
> 
> I live in western Wyoming so we do get some pretty good cold spells. We had hydronics in our last house and loved them but they were run off an electric boiler. This one i want to go with a wood boiler for sure and i would also like it to be an indoor boiler.  I have been doing hours of research online and i haven't found too many options, it seems like a lot of boiler companies are either out of business or the ones that are in business are crazy expensive. thanks for any help!



How much are you expecting to spend? 

Anything new you buy will also require dry wood.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 8, 2018)

Well i was hoping to be around the 7k range for a boiler. i priced out the smallest garn and i think they quoted me 13k which is a little more than i want to spend. the switzer sounds sweet too and i sent him an email about getting a price on one of those. eko sound nice, what do those tarm froling boilers run price wise? Also wondering where i am heating a slab on grade do i need as much thermal storage? i know in our old place the slab would radiate for days once up to temp. just wondering how to set this up most efficiently. thanks!


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## peakbagger (Dec 8, 2018)

The storage allows the boiler to be run flat out for a couple of hours to charge up the storage. Once its warmed up then the boiler isnt run for a day or so. The storage has to be brought up quickly so heating a slab would not  work.


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## hobbyheater (Dec 8, 2018)

When you say wood scraps, how small are these pieces?  A bunch of small pieces in a gasification boiler don't work as they generate more smoke than what the unit can burn, creating a condition known as puffing!


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## salecker (Dec 9, 2018)

How much insulation under your slab?And no your slab cannot be classified as thermal storage.
If you have any plans of a workshop/workspace/garage,plan to put the unit there.
Mine is in a separate building,and i would never build again without the plan to put all fire sources in a separate building.
Pros,
-no chance of carbon monoxide poisoning
-no mess in the house,smoke,ash,bugs and dirt
-Warm workspace 24/7 all winter
-less chance of your house burning down.
Cons,
Havn't got any for you...others may but i don't have any.Even when i walk the 125ft at -40C i still know that i made the right decision.Besides who dosn't want a reason to get alone for a few minutes,or a valid excuse to leave the house when the wifes annoying friends come over.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 9, 2018)

thank you for the info, a lot of my scraps from the sawmill are as big a regular firewood splits and some are too big and still need to be split so the wood should work fine. I do plan on putting it in a separate building off of my garage and i also have a barn i could put it in but its about 80' away from the house but that is where the sawmill is at and my woodpile so that may make sense to put it out there. i do have a finished tool room in my barn that may work perfect.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 9, 2018)

also i have 2'' blueboard under the entire slab and around the entire perimeter to isolate the slab from the footers and stem walls and allow for slab expansion.


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## hobbyheater (Dec 10, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> thank you for the info, a lot of my scraps from the sawmill are as big a regular firewood splits and some are too big and still need to be split so the wood should work fine. I do plan on putting it in a separate building off of my garage and i also have a barn i could put it in but its about 80' away from the house but that is where the sawmill is at and my woodpile so that may make sense to put it out there. i do have a finished tool room in my barn that may work perfect.



Your wood supply sounds good !


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## hobbyheater (Dec 10, 2018)

I've operated a wood gasification boiler (jetstream) with 1,290 gallons of storage for 36 years a boiler that could handle wet wood , but the output is so poor that it made no sense to burn wet wood .
The boiler I like on the market now is ether the Garn 1,500 or 2,000 boilers they have their own storage and are simplistic in design , operation ,maintenance . Although they seem expensive ,a comparable boilers in output and storage will end up costing just as much once you put boiler and storage package  together .
This is a good video on a Garn setup .


If the Garn had of been around when I started I would have bought a Garn !


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## rockwall (Dec 10, 2018)

I will share my story and hopefully it will be helpful. I live in cold central Maine. I started with an old used Tarm (not gasification) wood boiler with 820 gallons storage from American Solartechnics(Tom is great, you can check out the website or call him). I did this because I didn't want to afford the 10K or more for a new boiler. I was going to put the boiler and storage tank in another building and I am so glad I didn't. Even with the storage there is quite a bit of tending fire. After a few days of running the system I was happy not to have to walk out to another place. I did lose space in my shop but now it is toasty too. After a few years I found a lightly used Tarm Solo 30(gasification boiler) on CL for $1500, installed it and it is the Cat's Meow!  On most cold days I run the boiler for 4 or 5 hours bringing the storage tank up to 170-185degrees and then coast thru the night. We have passive solar gain so on a sunny single digit day the floors are happy and not calling for heat and the house heats up with free solar power. Definitely need to close the shades at night though. Now I am researching the best back up system so I can go away for a week or so. The house is 1400 sq.ft. In the summer I fire up the boiler once a week for DHW. I got all the coils and tank from AmericanSolartechnics.


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## Chris Hoskin (Dec 10, 2018)

hobbyheater said:


> When you say wood scraps, how small are these pieces?  A bunch of small pieces in a gasification boiler don't work as they generate more smoke than what the unit can burn, creating a condition known as puffing!



a Lambda controlled (o2 sensor) boiler can help a lot with this, but even then there are limits.  The Fröling S3 also has a "dry wood" setting that helps even more in this situation.  For example burning lots of kiln dried cut-offs in a cabinet shop, etc.


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## peakbagger (Dec 10, 2018)

My boiler is in the basement as well as my storage. The walls are partially insulated and the sills are sprayed with foam. The net result is that if heat does leak from the boiler or storage, it heats the basement and the floor above. I can normally run the boiler at night and charge up the tank to max and then after a half hour of so after the fire is out in the boiler I turn the system off and just run off the warm basement and the heat in the boiler that radiates out. In the AM I just turn the boiler on to supply the zones. If its real cold out I may leave it running t keep the zones on. I would have no interest in going outdoors to feed my boiler. I do have a bulkhead on my basement that used to be a Bilco type door until I replaced it with a full height "doghouse" with a standard door. I have a solid core door from the basement and the dog house is insulated. I just pull the stairs out in the fall  and can load in a half a cord using wheelbarrow. If I stacked it I could get more but a lot more work. I just open the basement interior door and grab what I need and then load the boiler. I have never had insect issues. There is no heat in the doghouse so it stays around 45 degrees in cold weather. The only downside is if I add wood with ice on it, it takes several days to melt off

I don't keep much oil in my oil tanks btu wonder if they act as additional thermal storage. I have two tanks (550 gallons). If they were full that would be around 3850 pounds of oil. Its going to slowly heat up when the boiler is running and if the boiler is not running it will slowly give up the stored heat. If the temperature difference is 30 F that's over 110,000 btus 

What I really need is low temp baseboards/radiant emitters so  I can run my storage temps down farther. Hard to justify the cost as it doesn't cost me much except time to heat the house.


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## Bad LP (Dec 10, 2018)

If I had to go outside to load my boiler or get my wood I wouldn't. No way, no how. 
It was 0 on Saturday and -2 Sunday mornings when I restarted the boiler. I spent most of the weekend in the basement rewiring a couple of breaker panels in a tee shirt.


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## salecker (Dec 10, 2018)

rockwall said:


> I will share my story and hopefully it will be helpful. I live in cold central Maine. I started with an old used Tarm (not gasification) wood boiler with 820 gallons storage from American Solartechnics(Tom is great, you can check out the website or call him). I did this because I didn't want to afford the 10K or more for a new boiler. I was going to put the boiler and storage tank in another building and I am so glad I didn't. Even with the storage there is quite a bit of tending fire. After a few days of running the system I was happy not to have to walk out to another place. I did lose space in my shop but now it is toasty too. After a few years I found a lightly used Tarm Solo 30(gasification boiler) on CL for $1500, installed it and it is the Cat's Meow!  On most cold days I run the boiler for 4 or 5 hours bringing the storage tank up to 170-185degrees and then coast thru the night. We have passive solar gain so on a sunny single digit day the floors are happy and not calling for heat and the house heats up with free solar power. Definitely need to close the shades at night though. Now I am researching the best back up system so I can go away for a week or so. The house is 1400 sq.ft. In the summer I fire up the boiler once a week for DHW. I got all the coils and tank from AmericanSolartechnics.


What everybody dosn't get,or chooses to not remember is if your windows allow heat in"passive solar gain"
They also allow heat out "passive heat loss" at the same rate as they allow heat in.
 I have Quad windows,and on a sunny summer day with the sun blasting through the window for hours i can lay a chocolate bar on the dark stone window sill and it will not melt.


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## peakbagger (Dec 10, 2018)

salecker said:


> What everybody dosn't get,or chooses to not remember is if your windows allow heat in"passive solar gain"
> They also allow heat out "passive heat loss" at the same rate as they allow heat in.
> I have Quad windows,and on a sunny summer day with the sun blasting through the window for hours i can lay a chocolate bar on the dark stone window sill and it will not melt.



Glass windows have all sorts of selective coatings that do different things in different areas of the country. In a sunny warm area of the country the coating may be "tuned" to reject UV and Infrared from the outdoors to reduce cooling loads while a coating system up north may be set up to let in the UV and infrared and keep if from leaving. I remember when these coatings came out folks didn't understand them and I remember a few folks calling them "plant killers" as UV screening screens out a lot of the frequencies plants want.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 10, 2018)

thank you for all of the info, i do like the idea of the boiler being inside, i have a loft above my garage and thats where the kids rooms are so it may be a good place for the water storage so at least the heat is not wasted it should heat up a little of the garage and help the upstairs temp stay a little more consistent.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 10, 2018)

anybody running a wood gun?


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## maple1 (Dec 11, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> anybody running a wood gun?



Yes, a few. Maybe one of them will catch this thread.

Have a friend who has had one for a few years now, seems happy with it.


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## Hydronics (Dec 11, 2018)

There are guys with woodguns on here, muncybob will probably chime in.
My advise is if you go indoors, go with a suction draft unit or you'll be eating smoke if you reload mid-burn. It doesn't matter in an outdoor shed. Consider where you will store all the wood.
A big advantage to outdoor units is if set up right you can handle the wood only once.
If you're willing to shell out the cash and have the room, I like the simplicity and efficiency of the Garn design. Froling with tank(s) are another great but also pricey choice. If the economics are important to you, look closely at the return on investment. It takes a long time to recoup $20K.
Depending on your boiler, you don't "need" to have storage. If you want any efficiency you shouldn't be burning it when it's 50* out without storage. But you can just burn oil on the warmer days and for domestic water in summer.
Dry wood is number one - particularly to see the efficiency benefits of a gasification unit.
I suggest you plan on a backup source such as oil also. If you get injured and can't handle wood for months you need an alternative.
In the end, I couldn't justify a Garn and went with a lower $ EKO 60 9 yrs ago and I think it was the right move for me.
Be realistic about what you're trying to accomplish and good luck!


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 11, 2018)

how important is this storage thing? what would be the best boiler option without storage?


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## TCaldwell (Dec 11, 2018)

A wood stove!


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## Bad LP (Dec 11, 2018)

TCaldwell said:


> A wood stove!





Funny but also very true.


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## blades (Dec 11, 2018)

Even a plain old wood stove has the ability to heat mass for storage, all depends on installation. If one were to get real technical there are the Phase Shift components out there ( a classic example of phase shift is water when frozen - other items work in reverse of that) There has been a lot of research done on phase shift materials and thermal  storage over the past 40+ years.  Just does not make the main stream media.


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## peakbagger (Dec 11, 2018)

Storage is really important especially with a radiant slab. Without storage it effectively becomes an outdoor wood boiler that slams the air damper shut when the load doesn't match the demand. This wastes wood, generates vast amounts of creosote and makes the neighborhood smell bad. A pellet boiler is a better match as many designs can adjust the fuel rate to match the demand. 

My neighbor tried running a nice HS Tarm without storage. He had chimney fires despite monthly cleaning until he damaged his flue tiles, then replaced them with a SS liner and had several fires until he melted the liner and then switched to an OWB. He burns double the wood I do and is a nuisance to the neighborhood especially in fall and spring when it idles. It doesn't help that his idea of seasoned is 6 months.


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## Bad LP (Dec 11, 2018)

^^ Wow.Talk about attending the school of hard knocks. ^^


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## maple1 (Dec 11, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> how important is this storage thing? what would be the best boiler option without storage?



I would say 'quite important'.

There are some indoor units that do without, like Woodgun & Econoburn, but I don't think I would put them in my house. Being forced draft, they have fairly big potential for smoke spillage. And they would do a whole lot better with storage. Anything that doesn't use storage will burn more wood, and not as clean, to varying degrees, without it.


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## salecker (Dec 11, 2018)

I wouldn't recommend the Econoburn without storage.unless you want to be like the guy with the chimney fires.You would be doing lots of cleaning and using more wood.


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## salecker (Dec 11, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> Glass windows have all sorts of selective coatings that do different things in different areas of the country. In a sunny warm area of the country the coating may be "tuned" to reject UV and Infrared from the outdoors to reduce cooling loads while a coating system up north may be set up to let in the UV and infrared and keep if from leaving. I remember when these coatings came out folks didn't understand them and I remember a few folks calling them "plant killers" as UV screening screens out a lot of the frequencies plants want.


Yes there are some coating to deflect uv rays and what not,but the coatings do nothing for actual r value.


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## rockwall (Dec 11, 2018)

Storage is very important!


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## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> how important is this storage thing? what would be the best boiler option without storage?



Any quality boiler with an output equal to or slightly less than you heat load.

FWIW, I wouldn't install any unit without storage.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 11, 2018)

If you don't want storage I would check out the Wood Gun. They are stainless steel. The air shuts down completely on high limit.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 11, 2018)

i called today on the SS wood gun, might as well get a garn those wood guns are pricey!! every gasification boiler that I've called on are right at the 10k mark and I've checked on every brand thats been recommended on here. the only cheaper one is the eko. by the time i get storage on any of those its going to be as much as a garn or more. also talked to gary at switzer, those actually sound real nice as well and a little cheaper than the garn, only downside is they are pretty massive! sounds like i would need a 20' building to put it in so that might have to go in the barn and i'll have to bring a line over from the barn to the house if i went that route. otherwise its some kind of addition on the garage that'll hold it. i do have my kids loft above the garage so it may be nice to put that heat loss off the tank to good use heating the garage.


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## TCaldwell (Dec 11, 2018)

Have you researched a used boiler, if your not in a hurry often their are good deals, and other system components to be had. In my area there are 2 garn 1500’s, the owners lifestyles have changed no longer wanting to burn wood, 7500$ each.


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## BoiledOver (Dec 11, 2018)

Do you or someone close to you weld? You can get into 1,000 gallons of storage for about $500 using a propane or ammonia tank. I used two 500 gallon stubby propane tanks acquired at scrap prices, it was a lot of work to stack them though. If I had the longer footprint to place storage, it would have been a single 1,000 tank.

So, if you are a do it yourselfer, you could get into an Eko40, 1,000 gallons of storage, underground pex, and your other piping needs for about the same cost as just the Garn. Or maybe less.


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## maple1 (Dec 11, 2018)

There are a couple for sale in the classified forum here. Also Taxidermist had his Biomass for sale too, I think.

And Fred was selling his Eko.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 11, 2018)

does anybody have any contact info for used garns?


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## maple1 (Dec 11, 2018)

You might try paging heaterman on here. I have no idea how far people are away from each other though.


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## TCaldwell (Dec 12, 2018)

I think heaterman is ebels heating in Falmouth Michigan


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 12, 2018)

ok thank you i will try contacting him, how popular are the switzer units? are they as good as the Garns?


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## TCaldwell (Dec 12, 2018)

It’s apples to oranges, the switzer is pressurized, allowing for higher water temps, I think he has a dwh coil inside and a oil gun integrated for backup if you like. He and his son in law do the installs, usually in just a few days, I believe he has upgraded his Controlls as well. He’s got stock sizes and will build custom also.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 12, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> ok thank you i will try contacting him, how popular are the switzer units? are they as good as the Garns?


  The Garn is a legend no doubt. That said I would take the pressurized Switzer over that if code allows. I don't believe Gary builds ASME, at least he didn't. Most inspectors probably won't even know what you are talking about with codes, you don't want to get the odd one that does & half to rip out your new boiler. The Garn is basically a swimming pool to code enforcement. There are a bunch of advantages to a pressure boiler. I would not want to mess with water chemistry for the Garn.


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## TCaldwell (Dec 12, 2018)

The obvious difference is that the pressurized boiler will store more  btu’s As you can run up the water temp higher, possibly enabling more time between firings. With the oil gun and dwh coil it could save additional hardware. It’s installed and tuned by Gary, possibly saving headaches if you don’t want to tackle the project. 
  The garn is proven simplicity, does require water quality monitoring and requires backup and dwh hardware. 
 I had the privilege of testing a switzer, running on wood about 10 years ago with testo 327 fluegas analyzer, it was good, just not as good as my garn. I believe garn has more development in the secondary combustion area, or at least they did 10 years ago, Gary has upgraded his  Controlls package, likewise on the garn. They both have their good points, so I’m going to call it the ford vs Chevy analogy!


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 12, 2018)

another plus for the switzer is it comes with the expansion tank and sounds like almost all the controls and the insulation. So its a fair amount cheaper


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 12, 2018)

how does the domestic coil work in a switzer? does it produce hot water as fast as you use it or does it go trough the coil into some sort of tank to be used later?


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## TCaldwell (Dec 12, 2018)

The coil is just like one in a oil boiler, probably rated about 4 gpm, depends on how low of a water temp that’s useable to heat with, if you are supplying infloor radiant at 120 and want to run your storage temp that low then dhw could be dicey, possibly employing a way to bring the dhw up to temp. If your low heating temp was 140, then dhw should be covered by the coil.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 13, 2018)

ok that coil set up makes sense, anybody running the old school traditional style royall boilers? i was looking at those online and they look like nice heavy duty boilers. the 6200 looks nice and has 90 gallons in the boiler. any drawbacks to going without a gasser?


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 13, 2018)

the seton gasification boiler by Royall sounds pretty sweet too with the on off cycles. anybody running one of those?


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## maple1 (Dec 13, 2018)

Setons dont have a good rep.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 13, 2018)

ok good to know, how about the royall traditional boilers?


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 14, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> ok good to know, how about the royall traditional boilers?


 The Royall is a tough ASME boiler. Its 50 percent efficient with flue gas temps that can turn the stove pipe red. I would look elsewhere.


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## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 14, 2018)

I would look at the Wood Gun again. You don't need storage and an expensive expansion tank. It should last forever. Yes they are expensive as 1/4" stainless steel plate is not cheap. Try PM ing Muncie Bob as he knows these well.


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## Wook660 (Dec 15, 2018)

I've been running one of Gary Switzer's boilers for almost 3 years now and its been great!  I had mine build with an oil gun for back up.  The oil gun definitely complicates the control system which has become pretty sophisticated and complex but works very well.  I don't think its a popular choice for whatever reason.  Cost perhaps?  I recently talked to him and he said he hadn't built one with oil backup since mine but he had improved his control system some.  As far as the domestic hot water coil goes, my wife can fill her 110 gallon tub to the very top and we've made it too hot to get into before.  We heat the house with radiant floor heat with the low point on the boiler set at 120 degrees, so yes when it gets that low you notice it in the shower but it still puts out plenty of hot water, just have to turn the shower knob almost all the way hot.  I had it installed in the basement and yes its huge and in a dedicated room so I hope it outlasts me, cause I'll have to cut it up if I ever have to get rid of it.


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## Wook660 (Dec 15, 2018)

Day of arrival, it was extremely muddy so I used my tractor to move it on his trailer it came on.  I had run all the pex to the location on the wall where he brought a sheet of plywood that was already configured with all the circulator pumps, plumbing, valving, etc which saved a lot of time.  Him and his son in law arrived on a Wednesday I think it was, stayed with us over night and finished Thursday night and headed home.  Insulation, expansion tank, and even over head sprinklers were all installed by them and it was up and running before they left of course.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 15, 2018)

that looks like a very nice setup, that thing is huge no doubt. thats the biggest problem with the garn and switzer set ups. if i framed fairly tight along the sides of the boiler and left a door for access to the back and the front how small could the room be?


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## Wook660 (Dec 15, 2018)

It's under my living room, so about a 13x18 foot area.  I don't think you'd want to go smaller.  It's tight but there's plenty of room for cleaning.  I'll try to see if I have a picture but in the back of the boiler is the fan so you need at least 3 maybe 4 feet behind the unit.  I have about 4 or 5 feet in front of it.  Gary includes four tools for cleaning/stoking the fire.  Because he knew I was placing it in a tight spot, he fabricated the clean out brush to fold in half otherwise it would be too long.  On the left is just enough room to walk through sideways, on the right there is more room and that is where my oil tank is.

FYI, I provided all the paperwork/plans/specs Gary gave me before committing with him to the town when I submitted all my building plans and permit paperwork so they wouldn't be able to come back later and object to such a unit in the house.  Most people have no understanding to what or why anybody would put something like this in their house.  I didn't either until after probably 2 years of research on my options.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 16, 2018)

that switzer looks real nice, are there controls along the side of the boiler or can there be walls framed tight against the boiler sides? im thinking of having a big overhead door to access the back of the boiler and frame tight on the sides and then the front of the boiler would be exposed in the garage. would that work? i may need to draw a pic. what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.


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## maple1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Trying to burn green or wet wood in a gasifier would be defeating the purpose of having a gasifier. Kind of like putting diesel in your new Ferrari.


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## salecker (Dec 16, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.


If you are serious about that statement,don't get a gasifiyer.
Green wood contains water,the same substance that firefighters use to put out fires.
There is no such unit that will not give you problems using green wood.Period.It doesn't exist.There are smoke dragons that will give you some heat with a box full of green wood.But problems still exist.Pissed off neighbors,your health if you are near it you will suffer even if you don't have neighbors,massive amounts of creosote,under performing smoke dragon that will use 2X as much wood to produce heat.
Just food for thought.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 16, 2018)

i just think drying wood for 2 years and not burning some unseasoned wood is pretty unrealistic. i cut green trees and always have green scraps to burn. i just don't think stacking all that and letting it dry is going to take more time than i am willing to spend. it seems like a lot of work to go through


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## Bad LP (Dec 16, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> i just think drying wood for 2 years and not burning some unseasoned wood is pretty unrealistic. i cut green trees and always have green scraps to burn. i just don't think stacking all that and letting it dry is going to take more time than i am willing to spend. it seems like a lot of work to go through


If that's how you feel then you should stop thinking about spending a lot of money on any efficient wood burning appliance. Nothing is free in this world so it's pay for it or put some labor into it. 

Get the cheapest wood burner you can and install it well away from the house because it will catch fire from all the black goop forming in the chimney.


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## peakbagger (Dec 16, 2018)

Bad LP said:


> If that's how you feel then you should stop thinking about spending a lot of money on any efficient wood burning appliance. Nothing is free in this world so it's pay for it or put some labor into it.
> 
> Get the cheapest wood burner you can and install it well away from the house because it will catch fire from all the black goop forming in the chimney.



Yup I agree entirely, not worth wasting your money on an indoor wood boiler if you dont want to season wood. The gasifier will not work if the wood is wet. Many folks who do buy modern stoves start out with wet wood. Some make it through one or two really tough winters burning green wood until they figure it out, others give up and resell them.


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## Marshy (Dec 16, 2018)

For what worit's worth, after installing my Froling and 820gal Solartechnics storage tank, I couldn't imagine it any other way. On average so far, I'm burning about half a face cord of wood per week. I fire the boiler twice a day on cold days with about a half a firebox load. On warm days I only fire it once and might load it 3/4 full. My house is 1850sqft with normal baseboard emitters. I aim to keep the tank operating temperature between 150-180. On warmer days I let it draw as far down as 130. My only regret would probably be not getting a 1000 gal storage capacity but I'm not going to complain as I found my tank/htx used about an hour away which helped me justify the system...
One thing to think about as already mentioned was having a backup. I bought my Froling through Tarm and the controls for my system to interface with my existing zone controls and also to use my existing oil boiler as an automatic backup if I want to walk away from the house for a week. Everything is seamless!

For in floor heating your operating range in your storage tank becomes much greater because the actual slab temp never gets very high. So for like my 820 gal storage tank you could probably run it down as far as 120 degrees and have sufficient heat whereas my hydronic baseboard emitters lost a lot of efficiency below 150F.  I couldn't imagine having radiant heat, I'd probably double the time between burns.


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## maple1 (Dec 16, 2018)

Succe


Marshy said:


> For what worit's worth, after installing my Froling and 820gal Solartechnics storage tank, I couldn't imagine it any other way. On average so far, I'm burning about half a face cord of wood per week. I fire the boiler twice a day on cold days with about a half a firebox load. On warm days I only fire it once and might load it 3/4 full. My house is 1850sqft with normal baseboard emitters. I aim to keep the tank operating temperature between 150-180. On warmer days I let it draw as far down as 130. My only regret would probably be not getting a 1000 gal storage capacity but I'm not going to complain as I found my tank/htx used about an hour away which helped me justify the system...
> One thing to think about as already mentioned was having a backup. I bought my Froling through Tarm and the controls for my system to interface with my existing zone controls and also to use my existing oil boiler as an automatic backup if I want to walk away from the house for a week. Everything is seamless!
> 
> For in floor heating your operating range in your storage tank becomes much greater because the actual slab temp never gets very high. So for like my 820 gal storage tank you could probably run it down as far as 120 degrees and have sufficient heat whereas my hydronic baseboard emitters lost a lot of efficiency below 150F.  I couldn't imagine having radiant heat, I'd probably double the time between burns.




Success stories are always good!


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 16, 2018)

thank you for the replies, i do want a efficient system so if that requires dry wood i guess thats what i'll have to do. i'll have to start on my wood stack now and try to get ahead of the curve.


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## peakbagger (Dec 17, 2018)

Seasoning wood is only a PITA in the first two years while you are building up inventory, after that its the same amount of work required to burn green wood.


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## Bad LP (Dec 17, 2018)

peakbagger said:


> Yup I agree entirely, not worth wasting your money on an indoor wood boiler if you dont want to season wood. The gasifier will not work if the wood is wet. Many folks who do buy modern stoves start out with wet wood. Some make it through one or two really tough winters burning green wood until they figure it out, others give up and resell them.



It was one of the first things (seasoned wood) I learned here on the need for it if I was going to buy a wood boiler. Thankfully I already had seasoned wood for my wood stoves so the transition was simple.
My father started scrounging and burning wood back in the 70's during the oil embargo. My folks could afford it fine but he liked the work out and the challenge.


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## Marshy (Dec 17, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> thank you for the replies, i do want a efficient system so if that requires dry wood i guess thats what i'll have to do. i'll have to start on my wood stack now and try to get ahead of the curve.


Dry is a relative term honestly. My Froling boiler has a setting for wood > or < 20% moisture. My ash, maples, beech is 21-24% if it is split and stacked in the spring and burn in the fall. Oaks and locust is a different story, they need another year and are at 35%. I would say if you can manage <25% moisture you wont have any issues with a Froling. The closer you get to 20% or less the easier it is when starting a new fire. Ideally though <20% is what I would strive for. I'll be able to achieve that next year. I should have a lot of wood left over from this year at my current consumption rate.


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## Wook660 (Dec 17, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> that switzer looks real nice, are there controls along the side of the boiler or can there be walls framed tight against the boiler sides? im thinking of having a big overhead door to access the back of the boiler and frame tight on the sides and then the front of the boiler would be exposed in the garage. would that work? i may need to draw a pic. what happens if i burn green wood in a gasifier? also how big of full size rounds can you put in these new gasification boilers? im no always going to have time to dry wood and im sure i'll throw all kind of slab junk wood in this boiler so i want something thats not going to give me problems no matter what i throw in there.



The control box can be mounted anywhere.  Mine is on the wall on the left looking at the fire box. There is nothing on the sides that would interfere with putting the walls up close.  So it sounds like you're going to put it on a slab right outside the garage with the front in the garage and build around it?  Interesting idea.  Just need to be able to mount the fan to something solid and run the 8 inch double wall chimney flue up.


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## salecker (Dec 17, 2018)

Marshy said:


> Dry is a relative term honestly. My Froling boiler has a setting for wood > or < 20% moisture. My ash, maples, beech is 21-24% if it is split and stacked in the spring and burn in the fall. Oaks and locust is a different story, they need another year and are at 35%. I would say if you can manage <25% moisture you wont have any issues with a Froling. The closer you get to 20% or less the easier it is when starting a new fire. Ideally though <20% is what I would strive for. I'll be able to achieve that next year. I should have a lot of wood left over from this year at my current consumption rate.


This year i am burning dead trees straight from the forest to my boiler.Testing has reviled 15-18% MC.
I usually have my wood in place by summer,this summer i completed my wood shed roof so i needed the space to work.I was concerned about good wood,so i told the guy trading me wood i wanted trees with the bark falling off.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 17, 2018)

Wook660 said:


> The control box can be mounted anywhere.  Mine is on the wall on the left looking at the fire box. There is nothing on the sides that would interfere with putting the walls up close.  So it sounds like you're going to put it on a slab right outside the garage with the front in the garage and build around it?  Interesting idea.  Just need to be able to mount the fan to something solid and run the 8 inch double wall chimney flue up.



Yea that is the best way i can come up with to make it work. Then the extra heat off the boiler will help heat up the garage and the floor under the kids bedrooms in the loft. Can the switzer be a horizontal exhaust or only vertical?


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## Wook660 (Dec 18, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> Yea that is the best way i can come up with to make it work. Then the extra heat off the boiler will help heat up the garage and the floor under the kids bedrooms in the loft. Can the switzer be a horizontal exhaust or only vertical?



You'd have to ask Gary that but with that fan I'd assume you could probably go wherever you want.


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## Wyoelkhunter (Dec 20, 2018)

ok thanks i'll give gary a call, steels going up so id like to decide which route i want to go before we get all these price increases.


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## Sukhoi29SU (Dec 27, 2018)

Wyoelkhunter said:


> Yea that is the best way i can come up with to make it work. Then the extra heat off the boiler will help heat up the garage and the floor under the kids bedrooms in the loft. Can the switzer be a horizontal exhaust or only vertical?



Yes, Gary recommended horizontal exhaust for my application going out through the wall and then 90 degree bend up along the side of the house.


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