# Steeply discounted home energy monitors....



## woodgeek (Jul 13, 2011)

I picked up a home energy monitor from amazon that is marked down about 80% from retail, $25 delivered:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0P0NVH767F15E2CCG41R

Basically a similar interface to  Kill-a-Watt meter but hooks up to your power meter to read/integrate your whole house usage.

There was a discussion here about home energy monitors last year, but we all seemed to agree that they were a bit too expensive for what they were: ~$150 for a simple wireless power meter for your whole house, $250+ for a multichannel logger linked to a webpage, etc.

I just installed the meter.  Seems to work as advertised, and I expect it will be helpful to read out power usage by major appliances that are hardwired--my AC compressor uses 2.5 kW, and the blower unit uses 0.5 kW.  Cool.

Both Google and Microsoft were fielding meters and associated web services, but I guess these were not big sellers and both companies announced they were pulling the plug last month.  The result: you can now get meters marked down to 'salvage' rates, but the web-logging features will not work after 2012 (unless third party solns come online by then).


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## velvetfoot (Jul 13, 2011)

But does it work with a digital style meter?
I have an older model TED (The Energy Detective).
It's been pretty good, and probably goes on sale periodically.
Early this evening, the alarm went off;  voltage was 111!  It's been preety low at times lately with the heat.  What are the chances I'll get the utility to do something about it, lol.
While I haven't done it for real yet, it's possible to take the current transformers off the usual mains leads and put them on the generator breaker input leads (at the panel) so that load and voltage can be read from the convenience of, in my case, the kitchen.

That's a great price.  Even if the meter gets changed at some point, it's only 20 bucks.


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## woodgeek (Jul 13, 2011)

I have a common electronic meter w/o a wheel--Schlumberger/Itron-Centron.  The Black and Decker counts pulses from an IR LED built into the utility meter.  The link describes which meters it works with.

Not as nice as a TED.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 13, 2011)

That is a deal. The BD is a re-branded BlueLine that I paid a hundred and fifty for two years ago. It does a good job. Put something over it to keep the rain off. If water gets between the sensor and the glass on the meter it throws it off. Otherwise it is great.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered one for $21 off of Amazon to have back up parts and a second display upstairs.


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## begreen (Jul 13, 2011)

Unfortunately it looks like our meter is not compatible. It has the dual optical port.


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## fishingpol (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks Woodgeek.  I am going to order one.  I saw a similar one on This Old House and really liked it.  I am also going to get an outdoor boiler reset and install that this fall.   It claims to save 10 - 15% on heating costs by automatically adjusting your boiler temperature based on the outside air temperature.  No more fiddling with the aquastat on the boiler.


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## jimbom (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks Woodgeek.  I ordered one.  For the price, you can't go wrong.


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## SolarAndWood (Jul 13, 2011)

They say $24.99 + 0 shipping but when you go to check out there is shipping?  Can someone educate this Amazon novice?


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## velvetfoot (Jul 13, 2011)

I didn't realize it worked with meters without a wheel.


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## woodgeek (Jul 13, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> They say $24.99 + 0 shipping but when you go to check out there is shipping?  Can someone educate this Amazon novice?



I had the same issue--in my case it looked like it was going to charge me until the last step, and then it applied a discount that wiped out the shipping fee.  Annoying and YMMV.


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## mbcijim (Jul 14, 2011)

You must not be a PPL account then?  

My electric meter is all digital and can access everything, including day-by-day use online on my PPL account.  Pretty good stuff.


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## Jags (Jul 14, 2011)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> What are the chances I'll get the utility to do something about it, lol.



Actually, you might want to call them on it.  I had a situation that with every appliance that I turned on, I would get a voltage drop, sometimes to the point of danger/harm because of a low level "brown out".  I had to call a couple of times because they would come read the voltage when nobody was home - little power use - voltage good.  I finally convinced them to send a tech so that I could show them.  They did.  The fix was a simple adjustment to a transformer up the line from me.  No issues since then.


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## semipro (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks Woodgeek. I ordered one.  I've been wanting something like this for a while.


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## btuser (Jul 15, 2011)

Couldn't resist.

Now exactly why do I need one of these things?


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## BrotherBart (Jul 15, 2011)

btuser said:
			
		

> Couldn't resist.
> 
> Now exactly why do I need one of these things?



Because it will make you crazy when the well pump, fridge and water heater all kick in at once. It is all right there in your face and you start seeing your bank account pass before your eyes.  :lol: 

Actually the thing has done some good things for me. One time our electric meter failed. I reported it to the co-op and after they replaced it they estimated our usage. At six times what we ever use in a month. I had been recording the readings every few days and dropped off a print out of it. They adjusted the bill to meet it. The next time was when I noticed that the usage was going through the roof. Investigated and discovered that the well pump was cycling every few minutes. Not hard to figure out that the check valve on the pump 103 feet down there had crapped out and the pressure from the pressure tank in the basement was pumping the water back down into the well and it was pumping it back up.

Hit the breaker and called the well service guys and sure enough when they pulled the pump out there was a hole in the side of the check valve.

Without the BlueLine it would have been quietly doing that for a month or so before the bill came in. With the BlueLine I caught it the day it started.


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## woodgeek (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey, anybody out there use this guy (or the blueline) with the web gateway---do you just get crappy charts, or can you get data that you can download to a spreadsheet??


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## jebatty (Jul 18, 2011)

I ordered from Amazon the Black & Decker EM100B Energy Saver Series Power Monitor for $24.99 incl s/h, arrived Saturday, installed yesterday, and it works as advertised. Easy to install. This combined with the Killo-Watt gives me new incentive to further cut electric use.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 18, 2011)

woodgeek said:
			
		

> Hey, anybody out there use this guy (or the blueline) with the web gateway---do you just get crappy charts, or can you get data that you can download to a spreadsheet??



Both Microsoft and Google are abandoning the web applications so that gateway is a boat anchor for a very tiny boat.

Now BlueLine is saying they have some kind of deal for smartphones but I ain't even gonna get a bunch of money tied up just for that to be abandoned also.

My B&D unit I bought for spare parts arrived a couple of days ago. I put the receiver for it upstairs running off the Blueline sending unit on the meter and now have upstairs and downstairs displays.


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## jimbom (Jul 19, 2011)

Mine, a used unit, came today.  It is up and running.  I am surprised, sitting here in the twilight, that the house is drawing 0.3kW with nothing running except two laptops.  We don't have TV or any satellite boxes.  The wife is out.  The son and I are on laptops.  Opps.  The AC just came on for a 2.3kW bump.  This is going to be a fun toy.  Time to go around and find 300W of phantom load.  Thanks again Woodgeek.


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## woodgeek (Jul 19, 2011)

300W is close to the minimum it can read--not clear you have a real phantom load that big.  Could it be the fridge?


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## jimbom (Jul 19, 2011)

Not the refer, I am in the room with it.  Unless the door seal warmer is engaged.  I will use the brute force method when the family is out.  Breaker by breaker, then the Kil-a-watt meter on any circuit that seems to be using.  We will see.


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## jebatty (Jul 19, 2011)

Have wondered whether the dial would spin/move when all breakers are off. Will try that, plus breaker by breaker, this next week when the wife is gone. She's really good about conserving energy use, just doesn't care about the technical side of it.


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## semipro (Jul 19, 2011)

Got mine today and can't wait to try it out. 

This will be great for monitoring demand versus time.  Our utility offers a rate program where power used at night and on weekends is less expensive than the standard flat rate and that used during the day costs more than the standard rate.  

I should be able to adjust our water heater timers, programmable thermostats, habits, etc. now to see whether we'd actually save money with the varying rates or not.   Our new GE GeoSpring HP water heater even has a control interface to disable it when electric rates are high. 

I wonder if anyone has hacked this thing yet to enable data logging on a computer?

edit: found some hacking info here: http://undergroundsheep.com/Undergr...wer_Monitor/Black_&_Decker_Power_Monitor.html


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## BrotherBart (Jul 19, 2011)

It will read 300 watts even in a power failure. I know. It has done it before for a week. Twice.


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## semipro (Jul 19, 2011)

In the owner's manual it notes that the minimum power measurement is 300W.  

I'd guess the meter disc is turning so slowly its hard to get an accurate measurement when its only taking a reading every 30 secs.


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## woodgeek (Jul 19, 2011)

It has a 'tare' feature--I wonder if we can use that to 'zero' off the 300W reading?? 

I am shopping for the gateway at a discount--even if its only good for a year, it is still cheaper than an energy audit (no free audits with my util).  I also assume a third party (hack) will eventually become available.

That hacking site is a little sparse--I'm game, but want a little more info.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 19, 2011)

Did a little communicating with Blueline today. They say they are working on ways to get at the data and use it. Of course they don't say how or when.


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## btuser (Jul 20, 2011)

Ok, so I'm at $.07/hr.  So far I've spent $.03 on electricity.

On the bright side, its got a thermometer on it.


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## jimbom (Jul 20, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> In the owner's manual it notes that the minimum power measurement is 300W.
> 
> I'd guess the meter disc is turning so slowly its hard to get an accurate measurement when its only taking a reading every 30 secs.



Thanks for saving me the hassle of searching for a load that may not be there.  Also thanks BB and Woodgeek for the same note.  Reading the directions is always good form. Perhaps I should start.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 20, 2011)

Given the state of technology developing a USB based 433 mhz receiver to plug into a computer shouldn't be a big mountain for BlueLine to climb. Cheap. The problem is that a computer would have to be on 24/7 for logging. Kinda defeating the idea of cutting electric usage.


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## semipro (Jul 21, 2011)

I have our computers set to hibernate for energy savings.  When I wanted to log the water temps on our ground source HVAC I found a unit that communicated via an Ethernet interface through our router to the web.  It has a nice web interface so I can access the data anywhere.  

Since most people leave their WiFi on 24-7 maybe that would be the best interface for Blueline and others, a network attached device.


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## woodgeek (Jul 21, 2011)

an old laptop with the backlight off and the HD parked will use <20W, or 160 kWh/yr.  probably in the noise.  That said, a web gateway would be easier to maintain.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2011)

Semipro said:
			
		

> I have our computers set to hibernate for energy savings.  When I wanted to log the water temps on our ground source HVAC I found a unit that communicated via an Ethernet interface through our router to the web.  It has a nice web interface so I can access the data anywhere.
> 
> Since most people leave their WiFi on 24-7 maybe that would be the best interface for Blueline and others, a network attached device.



That is exactly what they had with Microsoft and Google. And zip for people used it so it is going away.


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## semipro (Jul 21, 2011)

Well I'm learning fast that monitoring your power usage in real time can drive you mad.  I've been watching it as we turn on and off ventilation fans and as our water heater and washers cycle.   

Now my wife tells me this morning that she was up in the middle of the night and the display read a much higher number than anything I've observed.  At the same time I'm trying to figure out why our household usage is higher than that of an average US home when we burn wood, avoid using AC, etc.  

Getting up in the middle the night to toss a few splits in the stove is one of those "special" moments.  Looks like I'll be waking up to watch this thing until I figure out how to log the data.


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## jebatty (Jul 21, 2011)

I have the kill-w-watt and now the whole house monitor. No a/c, but a dehumidifier in the basement, all electric kitchen + clothes dryer + electric hot water. July 2010 through June 2011 total was 8000 kwh round number, or 667 kwh/mo. The "killer" for us is the dehumidifier, energy star. We average about 450 kwh/mo during non-dehumidifier months, but as high as 965 kwh/mo when the dehumidifer is running.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 21, 2011)

Don't try to compare with anybody else's usage. It will just make ya crazy. There are so many factors that differ from house to house and family to family that it is hopeless. All you can do is work on how you use the juice.

I have the daily and monthly numbers for his place since 2006. But they would be meaningless for anybody else. Even a block down the street.


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## velvetfoot (Jul 21, 2011)

You can get historical usage data from the utility, probably.


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## semipro (Jul 21, 2011)

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> You can get historical usage data from the utility, probably.



I have that history and our usage has definitely decreased as we've installed more efficient appliances, lights, water heaters, ,etc.   

We're all electric except that we use a wood stove part time in the winter.  Our house is about 2000 square feet.  We're vigilant about turning off lights, not using AC unless absolutely necessary, and addressing phantom loads.  Our average monthly usage is about 1730 KWH which still seems too high to me.  This is one place where I want to be "below average".


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## btuser (Jul 22, 2011)

The first thing we did here was install new appliances. I just can't see holding onto something when you can pay yourself to get a new one. Just little changes can make a difference. I used to put a screen door on the walk-out basement (came with it, why not?), but now without one we don't need to run the dehumidifier at all.  All that moisture was coming in and hitting the cold walls. My wife at first complained because it would bring the breeze right into the kitchen for her but after seeing the math on what it costs to run a dehumidifier with the windows open she gladly keeps the glass panel on the door.


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## semipro (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah, I'm hoping once we seal and insulate the basement better that we won't need the dehumidifier.  It sure is nice and cool down there.


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## semipro (Jul 22, 2011)

BrotherBart said:
			
		

> Semipro said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So do you have the Blue line WiFi unit?  If you have a smart phone have your tried the PeoplePower app yet.  $150 is pretty steep just allow me to see current usage on via the web.  If it somehow allowed logging of the data I'd be much more interested.


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## BrotherBart (Jul 22, 2011)

I never bought the gateway. And don't have a smartphone. We just write down the usage once a day and stick it in a spreadsheet.


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