# 2018/19 VC Owners Thread



## Dobish (Sep 24, 2018)

Welcome All to a New Season of being a Vermont Castings Owner....

Hopefully it will be cold enough to start burning soon!

(previous thread here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/2017-2018-vc-owners-thread.162678)


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## Diabel (Sep 24, 2018)

Had my first VC fire of the season last night. I will have another one this eve I think.


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## jharkin (Sep 24, 2018)

Hey these threads are no fun without some grumbling about shared suffering.

We should take a poll to see who has the first nuclear meltdown or something ... 



Anyway, as usual this time of yer, no burning for me yet. We had 90F+ less than 2 weeks ago.  I did get all this summers new wood split and stacked at least.  Next up I need to find some time to change a few gaskets this year....


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## ajayabb (Sep 24, 2018)

Third fire of the new season for me


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## Diabel (Sep 24, 2018)

jharkin said:


> We should take a poll to see who has the first nuclear meltdown or something ...



I like this! Or who can reach 2000*F first...


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## RandyBoBandy (Sep 25, 2018)

Well I’m about to pick up a new chimney and double wall stove pipe as well as a new support box. My current setup is an old 8” class A chimney. The support box is showing signs of rust and even leaks during hurricane force rain and when there is a lot of snow on the roof. I’m switching over to an excel 6” system because the old encore will not be my forever stove. I need a new cat and refractory box and also need to regasket the damper plate. So there you go @jharkin, the first struggles of the 18/19 thread. Hopefully it all goes well and I’m ready to burn in a couple weeks.


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## Diabel (Sep 25, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Well I’m about to pick up a new chimney and double wall stove pipe as well as a new support box. My current setup is an old 8” class A chimney. The support box is showing signs of rust and even leaks during hurricane force rain and when there is a lot of snow on the roof. I’m switching over to an excel 6” system because the old encore will not be my forever stove. I need a new cat and refractory box and also need to regasket the damper plate. So there you go @jharkin, the first struggles of the 18/19 thread. Hopefully it all goes well and I’m ready to burn in a couple weeks.




This sounds like a lot of work. You better get get....


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## RandyBoBandy (Sep 25, 2018)

Diabel said:


> This sounds like a lot of work. You better get get....


Yes indeed. Hopefully the chimney install is only an afternoons worth of time. The hole is already cut so hopefully it’s as simple as gutting the old and installing the new.


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## RandyBoBandy (Sep 25, 2018)

For those who have done a damper plate gasket job... can it be done by removing the flue collar or should I remove the upper fireback? And what kind of time frame am I looking at?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 25, 2018)

Good afternoon to all... I'm looking forward to my first burn of the season.. last year my first burn was mid oct so im thinking around the same time this year. Were moving up some wood to the house this weekend if the weather is good


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## bilvihur (Sep 25, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> For those who have done a damper plate gasket job... can it be done by removing the flue collar or should I remove the upper fireback? And what kind of time frame am I looking at?



 I did it a few years ago through the flue cover (without removing the collar), but you have to feel your way around even with plenty of light. It took a few hours. This year I removed the upper fireback (see Rebuild thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/rebuilding-vc-resolute-acclaim.169932/ ). Much easier!


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## Diabel (Sep 25, 2018)

Randy

What makes you thinh that gasket needs replacing?
Does it fail the $ bill test?


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## RandyBoBandy (Sep 25, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Randy
> 
> What makes you thinh that gasket needs replacing?
> Does it fail the $ bill test?


It’s just kinda loosely sitting in the groove. This will be my 4th year burning the stove and the guy I bought it from rebuilt it 2 years before I bought it. It passes the dollar test in some spots and not so much in others.


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## jharkin (Sep 26, 2018)

bilvihur said:


> I did it a few years ago through the flue cover (without removing the collar), but you have to feel your way around even with plenty of light. It took a few hours. This year I removed the upper fireback (see Rebuild thread). Much easier!



I also did mine when I had the upper fireback out for the partial rebuild - be warned however its no small feat to get that out and back in (about half way to rebuilding the entire stove).  See the rebuild link in my signature.

If everything else is good, I would give it a go working from the flue collar.  You don't have much to loose, worst that happens is it turned into a big job and you end up taking the upper fireback out anyway...


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 4, 2018)

So I have my 6” chimney and 6” double wall pipe. All excel. I also bought a 6” round flue collar from woodland direct. My problem now is the flue collar does not fit quite right. The bottom does not meet the gasket channel the way it should. I didn’t put any bolts to it but it doesn’t seem to compress the gasket at all. Oddly the model number on the stove is 2250 but it seems identical to the 2550. Not sure what to do. Excel doesn’t make an oval to round 6”. Any suggestions?


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## jharkin (Oct 14, 2018)

Some progress..  I got the pipe swept this morning and cleaned out the stove... Very little junk in the pipe this time, but then again I didn't burn a lot last year, probably less than a cord.


The stove is in good shape except for the gasket on the fireback fell out when I pulled it to clean out the cat.  Have to re-gasket that.


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## Mr.K (Oct 14, 2018)

A bit chilly here this weekend, but still holding out on the first burn


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## ajayabb (Oct 14, 2018)

I’m gonna burn for a few weeks and then run my Soot Eater up the stack.  I had good results with it last year   Bought 2 kits on Amazon.  Works pretty well for me 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 14, 2018)

Im like a kid in a candy store.. i couldnt wait to burn. Friday night i opened up the windows saturday morning it was 62 in the house.. lite the stove for the first fire of the season.. i ran it long enough to birn the stink off it and make sure all was good. This morningi lite the stove again. Only for an hour and a half and let it go out. The temps are favorable for having a fire here and tjere this week


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 16, 2018)

Had my first overnight burn last night and reload this morning. It’s 32 outside on its way up to mid 50’s today. 

Installed new chimney, stove pipe, new flue collar, and new cat two weeks ago,  also replaced lower fireback gasket. I need to order a new refractory box so I’m going to wait to do the damper gasket until I do the box. This new cat is very active. Twice I had to open the damper last night and cool it off. 

Forecast is looking like I will be lighting the stove daily. Happy burning everyone.


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## Diabel (Oct 16, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Had my first overnight burn last night and reload this morning. It’s 32 outside on its way up to mid 50’s today.
> 
> Installed new chimney, stove pipe, new flue collar, and new cat two weeks ago,  also replaced lower fireback gasket. I need to order a new refractory box so I’m going to wait to do the damper gasket until I do the box. This new cat is very active. Twice I had to open the damper last night and cool it off.
> 
> Forecast is looking like I will be lighting the stove daily. Happy burning everyone.





RandyBoBandy said:


> Had my first overnight burn last night and reload this morning. It’s 32 outside on its way up to mid 50’s today.
> 
> Installed new chimney, stove pipe, new flue collar, and new cat two weeks ago,  also replaced lower fireback gasket. I need to order a new refractory box so I’m going to wait to do the damper gasket until I do the box. This new cat is very active. Twice I had to open the damper last night and cool it off.
> 
> Forecast is looking like I will be lighting the stove daily. Happy burning everyone.



How did you make out with the flue collar? Did it fit right after all.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 16, 2018)

Diabel said:


> How did you make out with the flue collar? Did it fit right after all.


No. Luckily a dealer close to my job site had one in the shop. Sold it to me for 40 bucks. That’s less than half what woodmans sold me a piece of junk for. Only thing I need to do now is patch the ceiling around the support box.


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## ajayabb (Oct 20, 2018)

Swept the Encore today and fired her up this evening


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 20, 2018)

Your alcove looks awesome. Nice setup.


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## kennyp2339 (Oct 21, 2018)

@SonOfEru


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## ajayabb (Oct 21, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Your alcove looks awesome. Nice setup.



Thanks Randy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Oct 28, 2018)

It has been quiet here lately. Either people are not yet burning or things are just right with their VCs.

Has anyone try sweeping their Encores via the bypass door with a soot-eater? Bottom up.


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## ajayabb (Oct 28, 2018)

Diabel said:


> It has been quiet here lately. Either people are not yet burning or things are just right with their VCs.
> 
> Has anyone try sweeping their Encores via the bypass door with a soot-eater? Bottom up.



Just swept my Encore with the soot eater.  Removed the lower fire back and refractory and went up the chimney   It was easier than trying to go through the open damper. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PeterNH2 (Oct 28, 2018)

Posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I'm a new VC Encore 2040 owner. Ran a few burns over the past week or so, getting used to running a cat stove. So far so good, but I'm still a little mystified by the thermostatic air control. As I mentioned over there, it seems to have little effect on lowering or raising the griddle temperature. If figured if I want to lower the heat output and have a longer burn time, I'd just turn the air control down to closed. But the griddle temp just stays at 500. From what I'm hearing so far, I guess that's normal? There's no way to adjust it lower--to say 400 or so if I want to cool things down?

The cat probe on the back of the stove seems fine--it's consistently in the middle of the white area, sometimes a little higher--and the griddle temperature hovers at around 500, maybe 550, consistently no matter how much wood I load it with and no matter how the air control is set. So I guess that's all good. Just expected to have a little more control over the burn.

Note that the little door in the back does open and close when I move the air control handle, so it is connected and doing its job, as far as I can tell.

Also, my burn times--with a pretty small sampling so far--are around 2-3 hours, which is another reason I'm thinking it's burning a little hotter than it needs to for my purposes.

Thanks.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 28, 2018)

I’m not familiar with your model but it could be due to the secondary air inlet. If I’m not mistaken the newer models don’t have a secondary air plate that controls secondary air.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 28, 2018)

Does the fire change in appearance when you adjust the primary air?


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 28, 2018)

Ok I just read your other post. It’s possible you have a faulty gasket. You should be able to a good difference in flame between fully open and fully closed. Is woody helping you out?


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## Diabel (Oct 28, 2018)

Keep posting here and this place will give you the proper guidance. You are in a good place


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## Woodsplitter67 (Oct 29, 2018)

PeterNH2 said:


> Posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I'm a new VC Encore 2040 owner. Ran a few burns over the past week or so, getting used to running a cat stove. So far so good, but I'm still a little mystified by the thermostatic air control. As I mentioned over there, it seems to have little effect on lowering or raising the griddle temperature. If figured if I want to lower the heat output and have a longer burn time, I'd just turn the air control down to closed. But the griddle temp just stays at 500. From what I'm hearing so far, I guess that's normal? There's no way to adjust it lower--to say 400 or so if I want to cool things down?
> 
> The cat probe on the back of the stove seems fine--it's consistently in the middle of the white area, sometimes a little higher--and the griddle temperature hovers at around 500, maybe 550, consistently no matter how much wood I load it with and no matter how the air control is set. So I guess that's all good. Just expected to have a little more control over the burn.
> 
> ...



 I spiking with pete last night it alos may be a draft issue. He said that he has a long chimney. Its 6in and i never got the lenth.. could you tell us about your chimney setup


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Oct 29, 2018)

I have a new VC project.  Moving a replacement Resolute from my barn into my parents walkout basement.  And getting the one that's currently there out.  Eventually I'll try to replace the fireback that failed after 30 years.  It's about 1/8 of a mile away, and down a flight of stairs.

Any moving tips?  I think she weighs about 400 lbs.


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## Dobish (Oct 29, 2018)

PeterNH2 said:


> Posted this elsewhere in the forum, but I'm a new VC Encore 2040 owner. Ran a few burns over the past week or so, getting used to running a cat stove. So far so good, but I'm still a little mystified by the thermostatic air control. As I mentioned over there, it seems to have little effect on lowering or raising the griddle temperature. If figured if I want to lower the heat output and have a longer burn time, I'd just turn the air control down to closed. But the griddle temp just stays at 500. From what I'm hearing so far, I guess that's normal? There's no way to adjust it lower--to say 400 or so if I want to cool things down?
> 
> The cat probe on the back of the stove seems fine--it's consistently in the middle of the white area, sometimes a little higher--and the griddle temperature hovers at around 500, maybe 550, consistently no matter how much wood I load it with and no matter how the air control is set. So I guess that's all good. Just expected to have a little more control over the burn.
> 
> ...



you should be able to adjust the flame. If your griddle gets too much below 500, your stove isn't hot enough to engage the cat.   When you talk about the little door, are you talking about the damper?  are you moving the right or left handle?


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## Diabel (Oct 29, 2018)

If you move the right handle all the way from wide open (handle facing forward) to the back (fully closed) it might take few minutes to put out any flames. If you have the same active flame action with the air fully closed, then you have gasket issues.


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## RandyBoBandy (Oct 29, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> I have a new VC project.  Moving a replacement Resolute from my barn into my parents walkout basement.  And getting the one that's currently there out.  Eventually I'll try to replace the fireback that failed after 30 years.  It's about 1/8 of a mile away, and down a flight of stairs.
> 
> Any moving tips?  I think she weighs about 400 lbs.


Buy your friends beer


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## Dobish (Oct 29, 2018)

Diabel said:


> If you move the right handle all the way from wide open (handle facing forward) to the back (fully closed) it might take few minutes to put out any flames. If you have the same active flame action with the air fully closed, then you have gasket issues.


or your ash pan door is not closed all the way... or the damper is still open


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## SCBeekeeper (Nov 8, 2018)

New member to the forum. Have an encore 2550 that came with the house we purchased from the mother-in-law. It was bought new in about 1996 when the house was built.  In the process of replacing the refractory assembly and catalyst plus gaskets on internal parts and doors.  Have been reading about using a thermometer to monitor the burn temps at the catalyst.  It seems a lot of folks use them but there isn't much information out there on exactly how one goes about installing one properly.  Would anyone be willing to share their experiences?  Thanks.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 8, 2018)

Welcome. It’s pretty easy to install a cat probe. I suggest the Auber Instruments AT100. You will need to get the K-type thermocoupler with it. The probe access is just above the secondary air probe on the back of the stove. There will be a bolt or push tab that you need to remove first. Then take a drill bit that matches the diameter of the probe you have purchased and by *hand* drill a hole in the refractory box. Insert the probe in the hole and hook up to the thermometer. The probe from Auber is 6” I believe so if you are running the rear heat shield you will have to drill a hole in that as well and run the probe through that’s heat shield and into the stove. Position the tip of the probe in the middle of the refractory box. There are good tips, mods, and instructions on how to run these stoves in the past several years of the VC owners threads. Read up and happy burning  as always feel free to ask any here. The thread has been pretty quiet this year but there are still some guys around to help.


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## ajayabb (Nov 8, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Welcome. It’s pretty easy to install a cat probe. I suggest the Auber Instruments AT100. You will need to get the K-type thermocoupler with it. The probe access is just above the secondary air probe on the back of the stove. There will be a bolt or push tab that you need to remove first. Then take a drill bit that matches the diameter of the probe you have purchased and by *hand* drill a hole in the refractory box. Insert the probe in the hole and hook up to the thermometer. The probe from Auber is 6” I believe so if you are running the rear heat shield you will have to drill a hole in that as well and run the probe through that’s heat shield and into the stove. Position the tip of the probe in the middle of the refractory box. There are good tips, mods, and instructions on how to run these stoves in the past several years of the VC owners threads. Read up and happy burning  as always feel free to ask any here. The thread has been pretty quiet this year but there are still some guys around to help.



Just as Randy said.  The 2550 has a removable push tab   Having a Cat probe really helps to optimize burns and prevent overfiring of the stove.  I have the Condar digital probe thermometer though I know people also love the Auber. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 9, 2018)

We got the Resolute moved last weekend with no damage to the stoves, very minor cosmetic damage to the house, and some significant (but repairable) damage to the relationships.

If anyone ever needs to move a stove down stairs, ask me, I aquired some valuable wisdom that I am unlikely to ever need myself again.  In short, get a come-along, heavy-duty hand truck, some ratcheting tie down straps, build a "sled" out of 2x6's, and take the legs off (at least on the Resolute).

Now, I just need to get the old one back up the stairs.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 9, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> We got the Resolute moved last weekend with no damage to the stoves, very minor cosmetic damage to the house, and some significant (but repairable) damage to the relationships.
> 
> If anyone ever needs to move a stove down stairs, ask me, I aquired some valuable wisdom that I am unlikely to ever need myself again.  In short, get a come-along, heavy-duty hand truck, some ratcheting tie down straps, build a "sled" out of 2x6's, and take the legs off (at least on the Resolute).
> 
> Now, I just need to get the old one back up the stairs.


Didn’t I read that it’s a walkout basement?  Why not use the walkout and avoid the stairs? Significant relationship damage? Is mom in law pisses you scratched her drywall?


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## SCBeekeeper (Nov 9, 2018)

ajayabb said:


> Just as Randy said.  The 2550 has a removable push tab   Having a Cat probe really helps to optimize burns and prevent overfiring of the stove.  I have the Condar digital probe thermometer though I know people also love the Auber.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The condar company is just up the road from me in NC.  That is where I bought the replacement catalyst.  Also purchased their watchman thermometer while I was there.  Thanks for the info.


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## SCBeekeeper (Nov 9, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Welcome. It’s pretty easy to install a cat probe. I suggest the Auber Instruments AT100. You will need to get the K-type thermocoupler with it. The probe access is just above the secondary air probe on the back of the stove. There will be a bolt or push tab that you need to remove first. Then take a drill bit that matches the diameter of the probe you have purchased and by *hand* drill a hole in the refractory box. Insert the probe in the hole and hook up to the thermometer. The probe from Auber is 6” I believe so if you are running the rear heat shield you will have to drill a hole in that as well and run the probe through that’s heat shield and into the stove. Position the tip of the probe in the middle of the refractory box. There are good tips, mods, and instructions on how to run these stoves in the past several years of the VC owners threads. Read up and happy burning  as always feel free to ask any here. The thread has been pretty quiet this year but there are still some guys around to help.


Is there any sealant required once the probe is inserted? Or is it essentially a press fit?


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 9, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Didn’t I read that it’s a walkout basement?  Why not use the walkout and avoid the stairs? Significant relationship damage? Is mom in law pisses you scratched her drywall?


It's a semi- walkout.  It has windows and a door, but the door opens into a dug out with a retaining wall.  That recess into the ground has a set of steps too narrow to fit the stove down.  Good to take wood in, though.

Not MIL, own mother.  Long painful story, but the punchline is she said she wasn't going to use the stove at the end.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 9, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> It's a semi- walkout.  It has windows and a door, but the door opens into a dug out with a retaining wall.  That recess into the ground has a set of steps too narrow to fit the stove down.  Good to take wood in, though.
> 
> Not MIL, own mother.  Long painful story, but the punchline is she said she wasn't going to use the stove at the end.


Gotta love mom though. Even if they get cranky in their elderly years. My mom drives me absolutely nuts a lot of the time.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 9, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> It's a semi- walkout.  It has windows and a door, but the door opens into a dug out with a retaining wall.  That recess into the ground has a set of steps too narrow to fit the stove down.  Good to take wood in, though.
> 
> Not MIL, own mother.  Long painful story, but the punchline is she said she wasn't going to use the stove at the end.


Do you know anyone with a backhoe or mini excavator?  Get the stove just outside the basement stove and strap and lift it out with hydraulics. I would be engineering some macgyver chit to avoid going up the stairs with a 400 lb  boat anchor.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 9, 2018)

SCBeekeeper said:


> Is there any sealant required once the probe is inserted? Or is it essentially a press fit?


If you get the condar I believe it has a 4” probe so what I did (had a condar before my Auber) was used a metal file clip thing (metal clip with the folding wire things) to hold the wire to the back casting. This keeps the probe from moving around. I also used a little stove cement around it but doubt it does any real sealing. I have to take the rear heat shield off this weekend to adjust my secondary timing so I can take a pic and post it.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 9, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Do you know anyone with a backhoe or mini excavator?  Get the stove just outside the basement stove and strap and lift it out with hydraulics. I would be engineering some macgyver chit to avoid going up the stairs with a 400 lb  boat anchor.


What I learned getting the one down informed me on how to get the other one up.  It involves building a 6' sled with carpet stapled to the bottom, ratchet straps, and the come-along hand winch.  No problem, and no hurry.


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## Dobish (Nov 12, 2018)




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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 12, 2018)

Dobish said:


> View attachment 233043


Looks like winter  We got about 1/2” last Thursday which quickly melted. It’s been cold enough to be burning 24/7 for a couple of weeks now.


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## Diabel (Nov 12, 2018)

Dipping below freezing here starting tomorrow and snow. Still burning hemlock. I have a hard time doing an overnight burn with it. I get 6-7 hrs of good heat out of it, and I like my beauty sleep. No big deal relighting it the next day. NG is picking up the slack every morning regardless.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 12, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Dipping below freezing here starting tomorrow and snow. Still burning hemlock. I have a hard time doing an overnight burn with it. I get 6-7 hrs of good heat out of it, and I like my beauty sleep. No big deal relighting it the next day. NG is picking up the slack every morning regardless.


Haven’t you gone to the dark side with your BK princess? You should be getting much longer than 7 hours out of her. I’m averaging 12 hour Burns on oak with a little cherry and elm mixed in.


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## Diabel (Nov 12, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Haven’t you gone to the dark side with your BK princess? You should be getting much longer than 7 hours out of her. I’m averaging 12 hour Burns on oak with a little cherry and elm mixed in.



I built a house on a lake about 1h from the city. The Princess is sitting there. The VC is still working hard in the city house.
I will write a review on the Princess soon.


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## bholler (Nov 12, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> We got the Resolute moved last weekend with no damage to the stoves, very minor cosmetic damage to the house, and some significant (but repairable) damage to the relationships.
> 
> If anyone ever needs to move a stove down stairs, ask me, I aquired some valuable wisdom that I am unlikely to ever need myself again.  In short, get a come-along, heavy-duty hand truck, some ratcheting tie down straps, build a "sled" out of 2x6's, and take the legs off (at least on the Resolute).
> 
> Now, I just need to get the old one back up the stairs.


Or use a stove cart with a power stair climber.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 12, 2018)

bholler said:


> Or use a stove cart with a power stair climber.


Damn, I forgot I had that set up tucked away in the back of the barn!


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## bholler (Nov 12, 2018)

ED 3000 said:


> Damn, I forgot I had that set up tucked away in the back of the barn!


I thought everyone did


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Looks like winter  We got about 1/2” last Thursday which quickly melted. It’s been cold enough to be burning 24/7 for a couple of weeks now.


Today was 25, tomorrow back up to 50...


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## BrowningBAR (Nov 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I need a new cat and refractory box and also need to regasket the damper plate.



I want to curse at the damn thing just thinking about that. I think my body is now 20% stove cement due to my work on VC stoves.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

BrowningBAR said:


> I want to curse at the damn thing just thinking about that. I think my body is now 20% stove cement due to my work on VC stoves.


So far I ended up replacing the cat, changing out the flue collar to a 6” round and chimney to a 6” excel. I’m going to limo the refractory box along for this winter. It is showing signs of age but no holes. I also re gasketed the lower fire back. If I can get through the winter without having to remove the cat for any reason I should be ok.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

Dobish said:


> Today was 25, tomorrow back up to 50...


Woke up this morning to a solid 2” of snow. Looks nice outside but it is definitely going to make the job site sloppy.


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## Easy Livin’ 3000 (Nov 13, 2018)

bholler said:


> I thought everyone did


They should!  

Mine is right back with the commercial rotary chimney cleaner, and full set of scaffolding that I have to clean my liner once a year.

While I'm joking, now that I think about it, all these things would be money better spent than much of the money I do spend.

Big part of the reason I heat with wood is to save money, but I really do find myself wanting to spend lots of money on it.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

SCBeekeeper said:


> New member to the forum. Have an encore 2550 that came with the house we purchased from the mother-in-law. It was bought new in about 1996 when the house was built.  In the process of replacing the refractory assembly and catalyst plus gaskets on internal parts and doors.  Have been reading about using a thermometer to monitor the burn temps at the catalyst.  It seems a lot of folks use them but there isn't much information out there on exactly how one goes about installing one properly.  Would anyone be willing to share their experiences?  Thanks.


Here is the picture of the clip I was speaking of. It just holds the probe cable in place so it doesn’t move around. I diconnected the secondary rod this morning to see how things run this way. I did a reload last night and the cat was off to nuclear melt down. I took a look with my flashlight and the shutter was taking it’s sweet time shutting. If I get a chance to let the stove cool down I will pull the secondary probe and see if there is a bunch of crude built up. Maybe put some anti seize on the washers and bolt for the coil...idk. Or better yet replace the damn stove.  J/k.... for now that is.


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## Diabel (Nov 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> View attachment 233116
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I taped the flapper with aluminum tape about 2 years ago and never looked back. I will still have an occasional spike to 1700 but seldom. In the BK thread some guys peg the cats at 1800 regularly


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## SCBeekeeper (Nov 13, 2018)

Thanks for the info.  I've attached a photo to this thread.  Is the little silver button at the top of the photo the knockout for the thermometer probe?  Is the probe supposed to be located between the stove firebox and the cat or below it in the refractory box?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

View attachment 233116


SCBeekeeper said:


> New member to the forum. Have an encore 2550 that came with the house we purchased from the mother-in-law. It was bought new in about 1996 when the house was built.  In the process of replacing the refractory assembly and catalyst plus gaskets on internal parts and doors.  Have been reading about using a thermometer to monitor the burn temps at the catalyst.  It seems a lot of folks use them but there isn't much information out there on exactly how one goes about installing one properly.  Would anyone be willing to share their experiences?  Thanks.


Here is the picture of the clip I was speaking of. It just holds the probe cable in place so it doesn’t move around. I diconnected the secondary rod this morning to see if this would help keep the cat on a leash.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I taped the flapper with aluminum tape about 2 years ago and never looked back. I will still have an occasional spike to 1700 but seldom. In the BK thread some guys peg the cats at 1800 regularly


Yikes. That seems a little toasty.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

SCBeekeeper said:


> Thanks for the info.  I've attached a photo to this thread.  Is the little silver button at the top of the photo the knockout for the thermometer probe?  Is the probe supposed to be located between the stove firebox and the cat or below it in the refractory box?
> 
> View attachment 233122


Yes the button is your access. Pop that off and use a drill bit that is the same diameter as your probe and by *hand*, drill a hole through the refractory box. This will put the probe in the refractory box just under the cat. So don’t use use an obnoxiously long drill bit and accidentally go through the front of the refractory box as well.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 13, 2018)

SCBeekeeper said:


> Thanks for the info.  I've attached a photo to this thread.  Is the little silver button at the top of the photo the knockout for the thermometer probe?  Is the probe supposed to be located between the stove firebox and the cat or below it in the refractory box?
> Is your stove hot or cold in this picture?
> View attachment 233122


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## Dobish (Nov 13, 2018)

This was from a while back on my 2040. Now its an AT100   Hole location is the same though.


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## CueBaller (Nov 13, 2018)

Hey, all... new member here!

My wife and I recently bought a place in the country, which just so happened to come with this beauty.  The plaque on the back says it's a Defiant Encore, and the date manufactured code is 3282, so I'm guessing that's around November of 1992?  The copyright date on the paperwork is 1990.

Had a guy out last Friday to inspect/clean it, so I've been trying to get the hang of it for the past few days (this is my first experience with wood heat), and I think I finally got it.

It's 26 degrees outside, and nice and comfy in here... wall thermometer on the opposite end of the room shows 70 degrees, and the house thermostat (through the kitchen and around the corner in the hall) shows 67.

I think I'm gonna like this stove!


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## Diabel (Nov 13, 2018)

Welcome to the forum Cueballer!

This place is a wealth of useful information.

Btw very nice set up


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 15, 2018)

CueBaller said:


> Hey, all... new member here!
> 
> My wife and I recently bought a place in the country, which just so happened to come with this beauty.  The plaque on the back says it's a Defiant Encore, and the date manufactured code is 3282, so I'm guessing that's around November of 1992?  The copyright date on the paperwork is 1990.
> 
> ...


Welcome and congratulations on your country home and the beginnings of being a wood burner. Did the house come with a good supply of seasoned firewood?  If not this is something you need to get moving on. I hope you like tinkering because that is what you will be doing to keep the VC burning properly. Can you verify model number?  It will be on the tag on the back of the stove. 2550?  I see you have a stove top and flue thermometer which is good but you are going to want a cat probe thermometer as well. You can probably get away with the standard cat probe that Vermont castings puts on their stoves seeing as how you have a 360 degree setup and will be easy for you to look behind the stove. These encores really need 3 thermos to keep them from going nuclear on you. The better your burning habits the longer the life of the stove because these Vermont’s are expensive to repair. On a lighter note your stove and hearth look great. Maybe move your flue thermometer up to 18” above the stove top and feel free to ask any questions. Happy burning.


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## CueBaller (Nov 15, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Welcome and congratulations on your country home and the beginnings of being a wood burner. Did the house come with a good supply of seasoned firewood?  If not this is something you need to get moving on. I hope you like tinkering because that is what you will be doing to keep the VC burning properly. Can you verify model number?  It will be on the tag on the back of the stove. 2550?  I see you have a stove top and flue thermometer which is good but you are going to want a cat probe thermometer as well. You can probably get away with the standard cat probe that Vermont castings puts on their stoves seeing as how you have a 360 degree setup and will be easy for you to look behind the stove. These encores really need 3 thermos to keep them from going nuclear on you. The better your burning habits the longer the life of the stove because these Vermont’s are expensive to repair. On a lighter note your stove and hearth look great. Maybe move your flue thermometer up to 18” above the stove top and feel free to ask any questions. Happy burning.


The previous owner left a decent supply of seasoned wood, and there are plenty of dead trees around the property to add to the supply for next year.

Model# is 2190.

Flue thermometer move complete!  Speaking of, unless I overlooked it, I don't recall the manual saying anything about flue temp limits, just the stove itself.  Any tips there?

And I'll get a cat probe on order asap.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Dobish (Nov 15, 2018)

Flue temps are going to be dependent upon the chimney stack itself. I would keep it under 900º


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 15, 2018)

CueBaller said:


> The previous owner left a decent supply of seasoned wood, and there are plenty of dead trees around the property to add to the supply for next year.
> 
> Model# is 2190.
> 
> ...


I’m assuming it’s single wall stove pipe?  The magnetic thermometer should be about 18” up from the stove top. A good range would be between 250-550 on your thermometer reading. I usually try and cruise my stove top between 400-550. I have a small house so I don’t need excessive heat. Your room looks fairly big so maybe you want to run your stove top around 600. Mainly keep the stove top under 700. When you get your cat probe try and keep that under 1550. I try and cruise my cat between 1100-1450. In the last 5 years of this VC thread there are all kinds of info on running, repairing, and moding the stove so read up and ask questions.


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## therealdbeau (Nov 15, 2018)

just had a VC Merrimack installed and I'm getting to know it. I don't even have a thermometer yet but should have an IR laser thermometer in my hands tomorrow. Where am I supposed to take the temp readings from? The glass? Cast Iron part of the door? I can't see the stove pipe because it's covered by the surround so that isn't really an option.


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## Dobish (Nov 15, 2018)

therealdbeau said:


> just had a VC Merrimack installed and I'm getting to know it. I don't even have a thermometer yet but should have an IR laser thermometer in my hands tomorrow. Where am I supposed to take the temp readings from? The glass? Cast Iron part of the door? I can't see the stove pipe because it's covered by the surround so that isn't really an option.



I would say top right corner of the cast iron. IR thermometers do not work well on glass or reflective surfaces.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 16, 2018)

Need some help please.
I have an Encore 2040 Flexburn, and this is my fourth season with it. This is the first wood stove I’ve ever owned. This stove heats my 2000 sq. ft. split-level home 24/7. I have no furnace or gas, my home is all electric.

I went to load the stove earlier and to my dismay found the combustor access panel broken into two pieces sitting on top of the the embers and ash. Is my stove still safe to use while waiting for a new access panel?


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## Dobish (Nov 16, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Need some help please.
> I have an Encore 2040 Flexburn, and this is my fourth season with it. This is the first wood stove I’ve ever owned. This stove heats my 2000 sq. ft. split-level home 24/7. I have no furnace or gas, my home is all electric.
> 
> I went to load the stove earlier and to my dismay found the combustor access panel broken into two pieces sitting on top of the the embers and ash. Is my stove still safe to use while waiting for a new access panel?


You might be able to put some stove cement on it until you can get a new one.  I would not use it without it.  I would remove the cat, and if you do decide to use it,  don't close the bypass.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 19, 2018)

Dobish said:


> You might be able to put some stove cement on it until you can get a new one.  I would not use it without it.  I would remove the cat, and if you do decide to use it,  don't close the bypass.



Thanks. I used the stove cement and fused the two halves, let it dry 3 hours, reinstalled it, and slowly brought the temperature up to about 450 and ran it under 500 for a few hours. The next day I slowly brought it yo 500 again and it wasn’t till 2 hours later that I ran the stove as usual. No problems! I ordered a replacement and it should be here Friday.


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## Gnanneb86 (Nov 19, 2018)

Hoping to replace the analog black/white general range catalyst thermometer that came with the stove.  Anyone have any idea which probe from Auber fits into the hole that's already drilled in the stove?

I have a defiant flexburn model 1975.

Thanks.


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## Dobish (Nov 19, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Hoping to replace the analog black/white general range catalyst thermometer that came with the stove.  Anyone have any idea which probe from Auber fits into the hole that's already drilled in the stove?
> 
> I have a defiant flexburn model 1975.
> 
> Thanks.


WRNK-191 6" probe i believe


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## Gnanneb86 (Nov 19, 2018)

Dobish said:


> WRNK-191 6" probe i believe



Great, thanks!


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 20, 2018)

My first post on here since last season. Since I've eliminated the 90 elbow on pipe going into chimney from stove and replaced with two 45's, have not had the puff back issues I had last year with my first year with the Encore flex burn.  Guess the increased draft helped this a lot.  Kevin


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## ajayabb (Nov 20, 2018)

About to get an Arctic blast here in the next 24 hrs. Encore is cruising right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nunyabinis (Nov 23, 2018)

Hello folks.  This is my first post.

Background:
I bought an Encore 2190 brand new in 1994.  The stove has been fantastic.  I've never had a "problem" with the stove.  I've done very little maintenance to the stove in all these years.  Living in South Carolina,  I only burn about two cords of wood per year.

Recent:
It became obvious that the gaskets needed to be replaced for the first time when part of the left door gasket fell off.  I replaced the gaskets on the doors, ash pan door and top griddle.  While checking the Cat, the gasket fell off the lower fire back so I replaced it too.  While inspecting everything it became obvious that the stove needs some work.  It needs a new refactory.  The lower fire back has a few hairline cracks in it.  The heads of the bolts that hold the left inner air plate wall have popped off.  etc...

I'm thinking of buying a new Defiant to replace the Encore.  I want a bigger stove because I've expanded the house since I installed the Encore.  I plan to rebuild the Encore and put it in my barn.

Question:
Will I get the same level of service from a brand new Defiant that I've gotten from the Encore?  I haven't actually touched a new Defiant but pictures and videos show that the fire back and catalytic access are totally different.

Thoughts?


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## begreen (Nov 23, 2018)

Congratulations on the excellent life of your stove and kudos for taking good care of it. The new VC units have a harder, tougher refractory that should last longer, but it's too early to tell whether it will match your current stove's great record.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

i’ve been cleaning out the ash pan when it’s full, but in the main forum, if I understand them correctly, I see people recommending leaving a bed of ashes 1-2” in the stove, which would men a full ash pan underneath that. 

If I close the damper at about 475-500 and it looks like secondary burn is taking place judging by the dancing of the flames, at what temperature does the cat stop the secondary burn when the wood is burning down?

Also, how many hours do you folks really get from your stoves with seasoned wood from full fill to ashes? I’m only getting around 6 hours and the VC website claims the stove is capable of a 12 hour burn. I’m burning cherry, oak, and some maple.


Thanks for your help.


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## frased (Nov 26, 2018)

Hello all newbie hear hopefully this is the right place to post. 

I have an Encore 2550 brand new never a lit flame!

Anyway I’ll be firing up my new Encore this week for the first time.

Should I not be firing it without the cat probe installed? I’m going to get to AT 100 recommended by some of you guys. And 6 inch cat probe. 

Is there a probe for the flue temperature as well? I’d like to install the cat probe AND flue probe on the rear side of the stove. Do you guys know what I need? Any adapters? 

I do already have my griddle top temp gauge for the desired 500 degree mark to close damper and air control. 

Don’t want to damage new stove I can wait a few more days.


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## wooduser (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> i’ve been cleaning out the ash pan when it’s full, but in the main forum, if I understand them correctly, I see people recommending leaving a bed of ashes 1-2” in the stove, which would men a full ash pan underneath that.




I don't think that applies if your ashes are in a bin.

But check out the directions for operating the stove from the manufacturer and see what they say.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

nunyabinis said:


> Hello folks.  This is my first post.
> 
> Background:
> I bought an Encore 2190 brand new in 1994.  The stove has been fantastic.  I've never had a "problem" with the stove.  I've done very little maintenance to the stove in all these years.  Living in South Carolina,  I only burn about two cords of wood per year.
> ...


If you read around here enough you will find that that VC stoves do not get a whole lot of love. I have no experience with the newer models however @Dobish likes his and seems to not have any problems as of yet.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> i’ve been cleaning out the ash pan when it’s full, but in the main forum, if I understand them correctly, I see people recommending leaving a bed of ashes 1-2” in the stove, which would men a full ash pan underneath that.
> 
> If I close the damper at about 475-500 and it looks like secondary burn is taking place judging by the dancing of the flames, at what temperature does the cat stop the secondary burn when the wood is burning down?
> 
> ...


Which stove do you have?  I easily get 12 hours out of my encore and since I disconnected the secondary air shutter it’s more like 13-14 hours on a completely filled stove. As far as ashes. It is good to try and leave a bed of ash in the stove. This will limit the epa holes letting air into the fire box. Once my ash starts to fill up to the doors I will stir it up and let it fill the ashpan so I can dispose of it. It is a messy job but part of doing business when burning wood I suppose. I’m guessing your low burn times can be associated with faulty gaskets somewhere or you are burning way to hot. Do you have a cat probe thermo, flue thermo and stove top thermo?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Hello all newbie hear hopefully this is the right place to post.
> 
> I have an Encore 2550 brand new never a lit flame!
> 
> ...


How did you find a 2550 that has never been fired? That’s incredible. If your stove pipe is double wall than you will need a flue probe thermometer. Condar makes one. If you have single wall pipe than you will need a magnetic flue thermometer which condar also makes. The AT 100 is a solid thermometer and will be a great tool in keeping your cat temps out of the nuclear meltdown zone. If it were me I would wait the couple days until all thermos are installed. Seeing as how it’s never been fired before you can probably do your break in fires while waiting for your thermos because you will not be burning hit enough to close the damper.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> i’ve been cleaning out the ash pan when it’s full, but in the main forum, if I understand them correctly, I see people recommending leaving a bed of ashes 1-2” in the stove, which would men a full ash pan underneath that.
> 
> If I close the damper at about 475-500 and it looks like secondary burn is taking place judging by the dancing of the flames, at what temperature does the cat stop the secondary burn when the wood is burning down?
> 
> ...



I do allow the ash to build up to a degree, then empty. I dont consistently leave it all ashed up all the time. I do a clean out like 10 days
As far as secondarys go you will get them as along as your wood is gassing off, and the box is hot. There is no exact time, read the wood in the box. Once you start to get near the coaling stage your wood will be fully gassed off and you have completed the flame potion you will see in the
As far as the cat goes once you get it going it stays going as long as it has enough smoke to keep it lit. Your cat runs off off the smoke that is being off gassed. Once your into coaling the cat has nothing to burn


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## frased (Nov 26, 2018)

Thanks Randy!

I know it was literally a “barn” find. I felt like I had just found an old muscle car in a barn. It had every single original part still wrapped in paper and plastic. Has original ash pan holder, warming shelves, dragons, all handles etc. everything you’d get new. Even the moisture bag was in the firebox still. Once in a lifetime find. I traded for it.

I did read about the break in fires. Great idea I could knock those out this week.

Yes double wall pipe. Only single wall is the first small piece attached to the flue collar. Original porcelain enamel match so I wanted to use it.

I see the Condar double wall on amazon. Thanks.

Any adapters with the cat probe needed?

Thanks again looking fwd to getting going.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Thanks Randy!
> 
> I know it was literally a “barn” find. I felt like I had just found an old muscle car in a barn. It had every single original part still wrapped in paper and plastic. Has original ash pan holder, warming shelves, dragons, all handles etc. everything you’d get new. Even the moisture bag was in the firebox still. Once in a lifetime find. I traded for it.
> 
> ...


No adaptors for the cat probe. It just slides in the hole which you will need to drill in the refractory box by hand. When you get your probe match it up to the exact size drill bit and by hand drill a hole through the back side of the refractory box. There is a silver push button on the back of the stove where the probe goes. I’m guessing you have the oval to round flue pipe adapter?  If you are using double wall stove pipe this will also have to be double wall.


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## frased (Nov 26, 2018)

Yes the oval to round. It’s the very short piece that came with the stove. It’s all double wall after that then insulated etc. obviously. The double wall flue adapter was not useable. Drove my clearances all out of whack.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

I have an encore 2040 Flexburn.
 Last year I replaced the door gasket’s and one of the class gaskets, in September I replaced the griddle gasket,  and today I am replacing the ash pan gasket. 
The stove is the only heat source for my house -  I lived in a 2000 sq. Ft. split level house, so because of the floorplan it hits my house well. We leave our bedroom doors open at night to keep them  warm and it does a really good job.  I am retired, so the store runs all day, almost every day, unless this warm enough to let it die for a while because of the temperature outside.


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## Dobish (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> i’ve been cleaning out the ash pan when it’s full, but in the main forum, if I understand them correctly, I see people recommending leaving a bed of ashes 1-2” in the stove, which would men a full ash pan underneath that.
> 
> If I close the damper at about 475-500 and it looks like secondary burn is taking place judging by the dancing of the flames, at what temperature does the cat stop the secondary burn when the wood is burning down?
> 
> ...


With the 2040, you can empty the ash pan,  but still leave some ash in the top.  I found that 1 to 2 inches is optimal.  I stir to bring up the coals, but the ash pan gets emptied every 2 weeks or so.  

I get between 6 and 11 hours,  depending on if I'm going to try and crank it up and heat the house,  or just maintain temps.  My first year,  i was closer to 4 hours since i was not burning super dry wood.

I also see my cat stall out at 502 degrees,  then takes off and will run between 900 and 1300 depending on outside temps and wood. I normally get about 7 hours on low before the temp drops below 500.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 26, 2018)

I'm on my second year with a Encore flex burn.  I'm getting about 6 hours at best but that's because my splits are too small.  I had the wood cut for a much smaller stove and I'm still using that up.  Once I get the 3''-5" X 18'' stuff in there I don't see why I couldn't get 10 hours out of it which is what VC say's it will do.  Of course that means there is nothing left but some coals at the end of the "burn" time.  To my understanding this is really nearly all the manufactures definition of a "burn" time.  If you can re-start from the coals left then it's still part of the "burn" time.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.  I clean my ash pan out about every three days or so or when full no matter the ash depth on the grate above.  Kevin


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## frased (Nov 26, 2018)

If you hit the sack and you have the CAT engaged...

What happens if the fire starts to burn way down?  Could you have smoke issues? 

I see a million posts on engaging the CAT at 500 but what happens if your asleep or at work and it was left engaged (flue still closed).

Thanks all


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

When I reference 500 degrees I’m speaking of the temperature on the thermometer on the griddle top, I don’t have a cat probe, and VC told me on the telephone I can’t install one on my stove. I don’t have a thermometer on my stove pipe because it’s a double wall pipe and the reading would be inaccurate.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

This is my ash pan gasket- it’s the one that came installed on the stove. It looks good, but there is that small gap left at the center on the bottom that concerns me. Is it supposed to be like that?


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## frased (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> When I reference 500 degrees I’m speaking of the temperature on the thermometer on the griddle top, I don’t have a cat probe, and VC told me on the telephone I can’t install one on my stove. I don’t have a thermometer on my stove pipe because it’s a double wall pipe and the reading would be inaccurate.



Just wondering from everyone here how that works on the other end. Just let the fire die off if your asleep and Cat is still engaged?


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## Dobish (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Just wondering from everyone here how that works on the other end. Just let the fire die off if your asleep and Cat is still engaged?


If you have a 2040, you can absolutely install a cat probe. Once the cat is engaged and you know what temperature it's burning you can turn down the air flow to adjust your temperature once it is cruising you don't need to worry about what it's going to do you can set it and forget it it will eventually burn out


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## ajayabb (Nov 26, 2018)

I notice a big performance difference for the worse when I have emptied my ash pan.  Probably because of air leaks. I can get close to 10 hrs with my 2550 with a full load of splits, cat engaged and air turned all the way down.But again that is down to a small bed of coals. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Woody Stover (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> It had every single original part still wrapped in paper and plastic. Has original ash pan holder, warming shelves, dragons, all handles etc. everything you’d get new. Even the moisture bag was in the firebox still. Once in a lifetime find.


For that "muscle car" I'd read everything I could about the thrills, chills and spills of running these hotrod downdraft stoves, before putting my foot on the gas; Maybe I'd fire it up next year.  It'd be a shame to burn out the motor on your first drive!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> This is my ash pan gasket- it’s the one that came installed on the stove. It looks good, but there is that small gap left at the center on the bottom that concerns me. Is it supposed to be like that?



The gap in the gasket is definitely leaking some air into the stove I would replace that


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## Woodsplitter67 (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Just wondering from everyone here how that works on the other end. Just let the fire die off if your asleep and Cat is still engaged?



Your cat is running off of the smoke the wood is letting off. Once you wood is off gased the cat will stop running, as it has no fuel to burn. That being said. There's no worry about creosote, because all the smoke is gone and your down to coles theres nothing to worry about.  Its ok to let it die down


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## Dobish (Nov 26, 2018)

frased said:


> If you hit the sack and you have the CAT engaged...
> 
> What happens if the fire starts to burn way down?  Could you have smoke issues?
> 
> ...


You have to come home,  open the flue, and relight.  No big deal,  you don't have to worry about creosote after you are at the coal stage


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## nunyabinis (Nov 26, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> If you read around here enough you will find that VC stoves do not get a whole lot of love.



Yeah, I was really surprised by that. I've always considered my Encore one of the best purchases I've ever made.   Easy to get the fire going. (especially if you open the ash pan door until the wood has caught fire) Easy to load from the top.  Easy to clean the ashes out.  Heck, even my wife loves the Encore. As I'm typing this my coonhounds are gathered around the Encore like a moth to a flame as seen in my profile picture.

I once showed a friend how easy it is to re-light a fire with the tiniest ember left over from the previous fire.  I raked all the ashes into the pan and with only one ember about the size of a ping pong ball I had a roaring fire in a couple minutes.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 26, 2018)

There's no problem leaving the cat engaged till its down to coals.  I've done this several times now with no smoke getting in the room.  There is still a draft going through the stove with the cat engaged even if the fire has died down to just a few coals or even no coals. Kevin


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

Dobish said:


> If you have a 2040, you can absolutely install a cat probe.


Remove the heat shield?
Can someone  post a picture of the back of their stove showing exactly where to drill? How would I measure to ensure I am drilling in the right spot? I can use tape to create a stop on a drill bit. How far in do I drill? What product should I use to seal around the probe’s point of eentry.
I just want to get it right, and appreciate all the guidance.

(I will replace the ash pan gasket tomorrow)


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## Dobish (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Remove the heat shield?
> Can someone  post a picture of the back of their stove showing exactly where to drill? How would I measure to ensure I am drilling in the right spot? I can use tape to create a stop on a drill bit. How far in do I drill? What product should I use to seal around the probe’s point of eentry.
> I just want to get it right, and appreciate all the guidance.
> 
> (I will replace the ash pan gasket tomorrow)


Do not remove heat shield.  6" probe will work.  Drill will be whatever your probe size is,  and you will want to just use the drill bit by hand.  The refractory is very soft, so you don't need a stopper. You don't need to seal it with anything.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 26, 2018)

Did you pre-drill your heat shield with a bigger drill bit?

Ok, I just realized that’s not happening- I can’t get in behind the stove with a drill.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 26, 2018)

Okay, I'm missing something here.  It has a hole pre drilled for the factory cat probe.  Why are we drilling another hole?  Granted the factory probe isn't graduated in degrees but another cat should fit there as well, no?  Kevin


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## Mich woodcutter (Nov 26, 2018)

Ughhh
Used to have an defiant I purchased new in 2001
Replaced it with this new Defiant flexburn ..yuck....
Not even close to putting out the heat the other one does...rolling At 620 degrees on the stove pipe its not putting out much heat...time to trade for Drolet?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Did you pre-drill your heat shield with a bigger drill bit?
> 
> Ok, I just realized that’s not happening- I can’t get in behind the stove with a drill.


No drill needed. Just a drill bit. There should already be a hole in the back casting. All you are doing is drilling a hole in the refractory box by hand.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Okay, I'm missing something here.  It has a hole pre drilled for the factory cat probe.  Why are we drilling another hole?  Granted the factory probe isn't graduated in degrees but another cat should fit there as well, no?  Kevin


No new holes. You are correct when saying remove factory probe and insert the probe from Auber Instruments if you want a digital probe instead of the factory one.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 27, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> No drill needed. Just a drill bit. There should already be a hole in the back casting. All you are doing is drilling a hole in the refractory box by hand.



There is no hole, which is why VC probably told me I can’t use a probe/thermometer.
My Encore was built in May 2014 if that is any help.

Down to a few coals, just pulled them forward and filled the stove with seasoned wood I have from August 2017. We’ll see how long she burns tonight.


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## Dobish (Nov 27, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> There is no hole, which is why VC probably told me I can’t use a probe/thermometer.
> My Encore was built in May 2014 if that is any help.
> 
> Down to a few coals, just pulled them forward and filled the stove with seasoned wood I have from August 2017. We’ll see how long she burns tonight.


Mine was built at around that time too.  There might be a plug, a screw, or a knockout in the back. Did you see where mine was in the picture?


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## Woody Stover (Nov 27, 2018)

Mich woodcutter said:


> Used to have an defiant I purchased new in 2001


What was the model number?


----------



## frased (Nov 27, 2018)

Dobish said:


> Do not remove heat shield.  6" probe will work.  Drill will be whatever your probe size is,  and you will want to just use the drill bit by hand.  The refractory is very soft, so you don't need a stopper. You don't need to seal it with anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I’ll have my Auber and probe in this week. Taking on this task. How far in do I drill with the 6 inch probe you guys recommended. Do I just drill through the initial cast and stop drilling?


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## CTwith3 (Nov 27, 2018)

8 1/2 hours later the stove is down to 170 degrees with only a few coals remaining. House temperature is 74 degrees, 37 degrees outside with a wind chill of 29 degrees. Average temperature overnight was 39 degrees with a wind chill of 33 degrees.




Dobish said:


> Mine was built at around that time too.  There might be a plug, a screw, or a knockout in the back. Did you see where mine was in the picture?


Yes I did,. Now that the stove is down to 170 degrees I could get behind I’d better with my iPhone to take a picture. I see the hole in the rear shield right above where my blower is mounted



 I can use the drill bit by hand and make the hole? I don’t see how that is possible. I think I will need to pull up my vent at the flue collar and try to move the stove and drill at low speed. I’ll need to get a small level on it as well to get it just right so as to get a perfect hole and maintain the integrity of the stove’s ability to contain the heat.


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## Dobish (Nov 27, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Yes I did,. Now that the stove is down to 170 degrees I could get behind I’d better with my iPhone to take a picture. I see the hole in the rear shield right above where my blower is mounted
> View attachment 234217
> 
> I can use the drill bit by hand and make the hole? I don’t see how that is possible. I think I will need to pull up my vent at the flue collar and try to move the stove and drill at low speed. I’ll need to get a small level on it as well to get it just right so as to get a perfect hole and maintain the integrity of the stove’s ability to contain the heat.



It is very soft material,  and not very thick.  Don't over complicate it.


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## Diabel (Nov 27, 2018)

Dobish said:


> It is very soft material,  and not very thick.  Don't over complicate it.



What Dobish said. The whole process should not last more than 2min. If if does, you are doing something wrong. The cast iron (back of. The stove) is predrilled to accept the probe.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 27, 2018)

Are you asking about an egg beater style hand drill or applying pressure with a bit by hand and spinning it?

Which thermometer and digital readout do you recommend?

Also, since it’s not too cold today, should I re-gasket my damper? How long does that take, and how do I manage to get in there and see what I’m doing?


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## Dobish (Nov 27, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Are you asking about an egg beater style hand drill or applying pressure with a bit by hand and spinning it?
> 
> Which thermometer and digital readout do you recommend?
> 
> Also, since it’s not too cold today, should I re-gasket my damper? How long does that take, and how do I manage to get in there and see what I’m doing?



drill bit in between your fingers. A little bit of pressure and a few spins and it will break through. The refractory material is super soft, it goes through like butter. Since the stove itself is predrilled, it is easy. just spin the drill a few times until you feel it break through.

Many of us use the Auber Instruments AT100 (https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=279) with the 6", 4.0mm WRNK-191 probe (https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22). 

This has adjustable alarms, and is able to be calibrated easily. You do have to rewire the connector to fit the unit, but this is very easy and it comes with all the pieces. 

I have no idea what it takes to re-gasket the damper, that seems like it would be a lot more intensive than a one day project to me.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 27, 2018)

Temperature thermocouple probe with the spade or mini connector?


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## Dobish (Nov 27, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Temperature thermocouple probe with the spade or mini connector?


either one. The spade is probably easier to remove the spade connector and attach to the little green connector that fits into the unit itself.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 27, 2018)

Dobish said:


> either one. The spade is probably easier to remove the spade connector and attach to the little green connector that fits into the unit itself.


 I just pulled out the ash pan, pulled out the old gasket, wire brushed it clean, and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol. I was ready to replace the gasket with the one from the kit from VC, and then I noticed that while they are both the same size  The one that was already on the ash pan does not compress as much or as easily as the one in the kit from VC.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 27, 2018)

frased said:


> I’ll have my Auber and probe in this week. Taking on this task. How far in do I drill with the 6 inch probe you guys recommended. Do I just drill through the initial cast and stop drilling?


The cast will already have a hole. It is plugged with a silver push button probably.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 27, 2018)

@frased. Once you get your thermo match the probe to an appropriate sizes drill bit and by hand drill a hole through the refractory box. It takes all of two seconds. Than push your probe in a couple inches and you are done with that. You may have to cut the other end off and wire on the provided plug that will connect your probe to the thermo. Instructions will be on Aubers website under the AT100 listing. Dobish just posted a picture of his probe in his stove so just peddle back a handful of posts and you will see it.


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## frased (Nov 27, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> @frased. Once you get your thermo match the probe to an appropriate sizes drill bit and by hand drill a hole through the refractory box. It takes all of two seconds. Than push your probe in a couple inches and you are done with that. You may have to cut the other end off and wire on the provided plug that will connect your probe to the thermo. Instructions will be on Aubers website under the AT100 listing. Dobish just posted a picture of his probe in his stove so just peddle back a handful of posts and you will see it.



Thanks again Randy! 

Just finished second break in fire tonight. Draft is good. Stove is good no leaks or any surprises at all. Was able control with air control so that’s good. 

Just getting primed for this weekend.


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## Mich woodcutter (Nov 27, 2018)

I dont remember I believe 1910....
I have the Defiant Flexburn now
As long as I keep the pipe temp about 600 to 650 it heats pretty well but still not as strong as my older one.
Im running it without the cat


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## Woody Stover (Nov 27, 2018)

Mich woodcutter said:


> I dont remember I believe 1910....I have the Defiant Flexburn now
> As long as I keep the pipe temp about 600 to 650 it heats pretty well but still not as strong as my older one.
> Im running it without the cat


The EPA numbers say the 1910 cranks out 44.4K BTU/hr, the 1975, 34 K.
https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves

Vermont Castings   Defiant 1910 and 1945   0.80   10600-44400       Catalytic
Vermont Castings   Dutchwest Small Convection Heater 2460   1.1   6600-27300       Catalytic
Vermont Castings   Defiant 1975   1.1   11400-34000       Catalytic
Vermont Castings   Defiant 1975-NC   2.3   11400-34000       Non-Catalytic


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## Mich woodcutter (Nov 28, 2018)

That is prob corrrect as it feels like a 25% reduction in output.
Unfortunately, vc sales literature rates it at 56000.
I made the mistake of not paying enough attention to Btus and thought it would be the same output.
I wouldn't recommend it for serious heating


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## Woody Stover (Nov 28, 2018)

Mich woodcutter said:


> That is prob corrrect as it feels like a 25% reduction in output.
> Unfortunately, vc sales literature rates it at 56000.
> I made the mistake of not paying enough attention to Btus and thought it would be the same output.
> I wouldn't recommend it for serious heating


Of course it all depends on what your heat load is. This place is only 1000 sq.ft. but I need a 1500 sq.ft. stove to heat it since it's a bit leaky and has no wall insulation.
I can't vouch for the EPA numbers on other stoves but for the stoves I've run, the numbers seem about right.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 28, 2018)

I replaced the ash pan gasket yesterday and adjusted the alignment on the doors which was a bit off. I’m letting my ash pan fill and will let the ash build 1-2” on top of the grate from now on. Last night I got a 9 1/2 hour burn, my longest burn ever. I let the stove run at 600 degrees for a long time and should have kept it at 500 which would have given me maybe another 30 minutes of burn time. I replaced the griddle gasket last month, and the door and glass gaskets last spring. I should think that with s little fine tuning of my technique using the sessoned wood stacked in my yard I should get around 10 hour burn times depending on the weather.
I placed my order with Auber yesterday and am expecting it to arrive on Saturday. Did I read right- 4mm drill bit to install the probe? I’d like to be prepared to get this done over the weekend- Homer’s is crazy on the weekend this time of year.


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## Dobish (Nov 28, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> I replaced the ash pan gasket yesterday and adjusted the alignment on the doors which was a bit off. I’m letting my ash pan fill and will let the ash build 1-2” on top of the grate from now on. Last night I got a 9 1/2 hour burn, my longest burn ever. I let the stove run at 600 degrees for a long time and should have kept it at 500 which would have given me maybe another 30 minutes of burn time. I replaced the griddle gasket last month, and the door and glass gaskets last spring. I should think that with s little fine tuning of my technique using the sessoned wood stacked in my yard I should get around 10 hour burn times depending on the weather.
> I placed my order with Auber yesterday and am expecting it to arrive on Saturday. Did I read right- 4mm drill bit to install the probe? I’d like to be prepared to get this done over the weekend- Homer’s is crazy on the weekend this time of year.



yes 4mm drill.


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## SculptureOfSound (Nov 29, 2018)

Anyone have any idea on how to reduce secondary air in a VC Montpelier. Per the parts diagram in the manual it  Looks like it comes up through the side and into the tubes... wondering if the only way to slow it down would be to block the tubes themselves a bit. I've got some 321 stainless steel foil...might try reducing the inner diameter of the tube by sticking a bit of foil into them.


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## Clanky44 (Nov 29, 2018)

Hello folks, I'm a new member here and a potential VC Montpellier purchaser. We're going to be installing a wood insert into an existing inner double sided fireplace. The cottage is approximately 1200 sq. ft.  I've seen conflicting info on the BTU's of this stove, from 40k to 58k. Can anyone confirm what the actual number is and how the stove operates in real life situations, meaning how big is your home/cottage?, and how warm does it get in the winter? We'll be using this as a primary source of heat in the winter when we're there and using base board heating when we're not. 

Thanks


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## Woody Stover (Nov 29, 2018)

How is the air-sealing and insulation in the cottage? Is it shielded from the wind by trees? Open floor plan where heat will move easily?
I've run four different stoves, and the output numbers from the EPA tests seem to correspond to what I found in real life. I can't say if they are accurate for _all_ of the stoves on the list, though. They show a high-output number of 27600 BTU/hr, similar to what my weakest stove is (Dutchwest 2460.) It was doing a fair job heating our place with the optional blower on the stove, but it was a struggle in cold, windy conditions. This was with med-high to high output wood (Red Oak up to Black Locust.) We are heating a 1000 sq.ft.  log cabin, rather leaky with no wall insulation, but the climate here is much milder than in Ontario. I'm just guessing at this point but my feeling is that you may need more output unless your cottage is pretty tight.
These output numbers won't tell you area heated, but I think they are probably useful for comparing different stoves.  
https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves


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## Woody Stover (Nov 29, 2018)

Maybe your government has a similar testing program for stoves made there?


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## frased (Nov 29, 2018)

Dobish said:


> yes 4mm drill.



I’m doing this same task this week. 

Can you tell me the temps I need to watch for my 2550 encore ?

Griddle temps - 500-600 ?
Pipe (condar flue double wall therm) ?
Auber probe Cat temps - ?


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## Dobish (Nov 29, 2018)

frased said:


> I’m doing this same task this week.
> 
> Can you tell me the temps I need to watch for my 2550 encore ?
> 
> ...



Griddle temps - 500-600
pipe inside -300 low end 550 high end
cat temps- will light off around 500º  Max recommended is 1500º


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## Clanky44 (Nov 29, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> How is the air-sealing and insulation in the cottage? Is it shielded from the wind by trees? Open floor plan where heat will move easily?
> I've run four different stoves, and the output numbers from the EPA tests seem to correspond to what I found in real life. I can't say if they are accurate for _all_ of the stoves on the list, though. They show a high-output number of 27600 BTU/hr, similar to what my weakest stove is (Dutchwest 2460.) It was doing a fair job heating our place with the optional blower on the stove, but it was a struggle in cold, windy conditions. This was with med-high to high output wood (Red Oak up to Black Locust.) We are heating a 1000 sq.ft.  log cabin, rather leaky with no wall insulation, but the climate here is much milder than in Ontario. I'm just guessing at this point but my feeling is that you may need more output unless your cottage is pretty tight.
> These output numbers won't tell you area heated, but I think they are probably useful for comparing different stoves.
> https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves



Thanks for the reply,..

The cottage is a 4 season cottage, insulated walls and attic. The 3' crawl space at ground level is not insulated, but will be after this winter. The main heat sink is the inner masonry 2 sided fireplace that will be used for the stove insert. We're debating between the VC Montpellier and a Enviro Cabello 1700. The figures given for BTU's are drastically different but as a first time stove user, these numbers mean little to me. (VC Montpellier = 58000, Cabello 1700 = 74000). The Cabello is rated for a 3000 sq.ft. space, which could be overkill.

Edit,.. The property is wooded, so there should be wind blocks from all directions.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 29, 2018)

Why are we drilling a 4mm hole here.  The Encore Flexburn already has the hole drilled in the back for they're probe supplied with the stove when new.  Is the probe being installed a different size then the VC probe.  Am I missing something here?  Kevin


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## Woody Stover (Nov 29, 2018)

Clanky44 said:


> We're debating between the VC Montpellier and a Enviro Cabello 1700. The figures given for BTU's are drastically different but as a first time stove user, these numbers mean little to me. (VC Montpellier = 58000, Cabello 1700 = 74000). The Cabello is rated for a 3000 sq.ft. space, which could be overkill.


You may want to start your own thread, since we are bringing stoves other than VC into the equation. You could copy and paste some of the info you've already supplied here, over to the new thread.
3000 sq. ft. seems like a stretch for a 2.5 cu.ft. stove...unless you're living in Arkansas.  I wouldn't put too much stock in those "max output" numbers that you see on manufacturers' websites; Who knows _how_ they come up with some of those?
I see that the EPA high-output numbers for the 1700 are actually _lower_ than those for the 1200. That could be a difference in stove construction, a fluke test run, or who knows what? Conventional wisdom holds that the bigger the box, the more heat you get, other things being equal. But I don't think they are equal in most cases (cat vs. secondary burn, interior construction, etc.) so it may be like comparing apples to oranges. For sure, with a larger firebox the stove will run longer at a high-output level. In a smaller box, if you keep throwing more wood in to keep output up, you soon have a stove full of coals, with no room for more wood until you deal with them.
Again, the numbers _do_ apply to the stoves I've run, and to feedback I've seen from some other members who have run multiple stoves.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 29, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Why are we drilling a 4mm hole here.  The Encore Flexburn already has the hole drilled in the back for they're probe supplied with the stove when new.  Is the probe being installed a different size then the VC probe.  Am I missing something here?  Kevin


Yes, the hole is in the stove, but I think they are drilling through the refractory with a drill bit held in the fingers. Post #116 is what I saw just now, going back a couple pages.


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 29, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Why are we drilling a 4mm hole here.  The Encore Flexburn already has the hole drilled in the back for they're probe supplied with the stove when new.  Is the probe being installed a different size then the VC probe.  Am I missing something here?  Kevin


My encore is old and did not come with a probe so I hand to drill a hole in the refractory box (the back casting was pre drilled). If your stove came with a probe I would assume pull it out and replace with the Auber Instruments if you desire a digital probe.


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 29, 2018)

Okay, I got it now.  By all means drill away.  Kevin


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## nunyabinis (Nov 30, 2018)

I've read posts that say the new Encore Flexburn doesn't seem to heat as well as the older Encores.  I looked up the official EPA numbers.  My old Encore 2190 built in 1994 is listed at 41,700 BTUs.  The new Encore Flexburn 2040 is listed at 34,000 BTUs.  

Also of note is that the older Defiant is listed at 44,400 BTUs and the new Defiant Flexburn is listed at the same BTU as the new Encore Flexburn (34,000 BTU).

Does anyone know why that is? 

I had planned to purchase a new Defiant since I've expanded my house and put the old Encore in my barn, however, if the new Flexburns put out less heat I may just have to rebuild my old Encore and keep it in the house.

Thoughts?


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## SculptureOfSound (Nov 30, 2018)

Just fyi for anyone interested, I put some stainless foil in 2 of the 4 tubes (the middle two) on my montpelier,reducing the air through them maybe 30% each, and it gave me much more control of the fire when turning down. 

Still would like a bit more control so will be doing the same to the other two tubes and see how that fares.


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## Dobish (Nov 30, 2018)

i have been slacking off and haven't brought up wood for a few days, so I figured I would get through my small pile of kindling that has been piled up by the door for a while. I loaded up the stove with the kindling and smaller chunks. Mostly cherry, apple, elm, and walnut pieces roughly 1/2" to 2" diameter.

Man those burn hot!  My stove pipe jumped to 600 pretty quick! I reloaded around 11pm, and i still had a big pile of coals this morning at 7:30am...


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## Kevin Weis (Nov 30, 2018)

Surprised you didn't get some puff back from all that gasser wood.  Must have a hell of a draft.  Kevin


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## Dobish (Nov 30, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Surprised you didn't get some puff back from all that gasser wood.  Must have a hell of a draft.  Kevin



I was too. Draft was pretty good last night. Cat temps topped out at around 1100º.


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## Woody Stover (Nov 30, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> I put some stainless foil in 2 of the 4 tubes


So what is holding them in place when the tubes expand from heat? Are they pretty big wads of foil, extending for inches inside the tubes, that have a lot of friction against the walls? I guess you would be able to tell if they moved..bigger flames coming from holes that were before the foil.


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## CTwith3 (Nov 30, 2018)

FYI: the new access panel for the Encore is now about 25% thicker. Maybe they got tired of replacing them under warranty?


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## RandyBoBandy (Nov 30, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> Just fyi for anyone interested, I put some stainless foil in 2 of the 4 tubes (the middle two) on my montpelier,reducing the air through them maybe 30% each, and it gave me much more control of the fire when turning down.
> 
> Still would like a bit more control so will be doing the same to the other two tubes and see how that fares.


I disconnected my secondary air shutter and left It fully closed. The stove is way more controllable now and the cat actually stays active much longer


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## frased (Nov 30, 2018)

Does it take a long time for the flue temperature to catch up with the griddle temperature?

Granted this is a fresh 30 minute small break in fire.

Just wondering if the flue gauge is accurate.

I am running an 8” chimney


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## frased (Nov 30, 2018)

frased said:


> Does it take a long time for the flue temperature to catch up with the griddle temperature?
> 
> Granted this is a fresh 30 minute small break in fire.
> 
> ...



Update things are evening out more...


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## SculptureOfSound (Nov 30, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> So what is holding them in place when the tubes expand from heat? Are they pretty big wads of foil, extending for inches inside the tubes, that have a lot of friction against the walls? I guess you would be able to tell if they moved..bigger flames coming from holes that were before the foil.



Just wads in each end of the tube (can't tell what direction the air is coming from on the tubes, I think it is different for every otheer tube). I'm not sure if the foil would expand too. All I know is that it has helped some.

For some reason my draft is really strong with only 17 feet of pipe, I think it has to do with a line of tall bushes that is right at the height of the stack, I think air moving over them creates a vacuum like effect at the chimney. Anyhow, I will try some more aggressive experimentation as I still can't turn down as much as I'd like.

The unregulated front air channel (air comes from underneath the unit and comes out from under the front angled refractory piece)  acts like a bellows to the flame, even with air all the way down. I've tried plugging the holes with my fingers when the stove is cool enough to do so, it instantly removed the bellows effect. I'll have to rig something with magnets to easily block them when needed.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Nov 30, 2018)

frased said:


> Update things are evening out more...


It looks like you have a pipe thermometer on your GT (griddle top). If you are having a real small fire than I wouldn’t expect to see very high flue temps.


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## frased (Nov 30, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> It looks like you have a pipe thermometer on your GT (griddle top). If you are having a real small fire than I wouldn’t expect to see very high flue temps.


Oh shoot I thought it would be ok for griddle. Guess I need to return that one!

What stove thermometer you guys recommend that compliments my flue gard one?


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## Woody Stover (Nov 30, 2018)

frased said:


> Guess I need to return that one


That should be OK, you just look at the numbers, not the ranges. I don't think you want to go over 750 anyway, do you?


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## frased (Nov 30, 2018)

Woody Stover said:


> That should be OK, you just look at the numbers, not the ranges. I don't think you want to go over 750 anyway, do you?


Thanks! I may still swap er out but I’m in good shape for my first big burn tomorrow night


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 1, 2018)

frased said:


> Thanks! I may still swap er out but I’m in good shape for my first big burn tomorrow night


Like woody said you will be fine with it. Just pay attention to the numbers and not the ranges. I don’t let my griddle top get to 700. It’s probably fine but I don’t require that much heat output. On your first big run pay attention to your flue temps first. If your flue temps are getting into the danger zone before your GT is about 400 I would still close the damper to calm down the flue temps. Than pay attention to your cat temps. If they are steadily rising than you are good. Start shutting down the air in small increments once the cat hits 900. If you cat hangs out around 400 for a long time it has stalled. Open your damper and let the fire build up again and repeat process. Good luck and happy burning. Post pics.


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## frased (Dec 1, 2018)

She’s off n running engaging CAT soon...


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## frased (Dec 1, 2018)

frased said:


> She’s off n running engaging CAT soon...



Hey all I have the CAT griddle and flue all cruising at the right temps. I have to say wow. You would be flying blind without this data. Normally you’d be thinking I need to see a big dancing flame fire. Nope. This is awesome. Man when the VC is dialed in it’s an impressive appliance.


----------



## therealdbeau (Dec 1, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> Just wads in each end of the tube (can't tell what direction the air is coming from on the tubes, I think it is different for every otheer tube). I'm not sure if the foil would expand too. All I know is that it has helped some.
> 
> For some reason my draft is really strong with only 17 feet of pipe, I think it has to do with a line of tall bushes that is right at the height of the stack, I think air moving over them creates a vacuum like effect at the chimney. Anyhow, I will try some more aggressive experimentation as I still can't turn down as much as I'd like.
> 
> The unregulated front air channel (air comes from underneath the unit and comes out from under the front angled refractory piece)  acts like a bellows to the flame, even with air all the way down. I've tried plugging the holes with my fingers when the stove is cool enough to do so, it instantly removed the bellows effect. I'll have to rig something with magnets to easily block them when needed.



My Merrimack insert is the same way with the fixed open front/bottom intake. I just wonder why they put such a limit on how much control you have over the air intake. There is a warning in the manual that states: 

"This wood heater has a manufactured-set minimum low burn rate that must not be altered. It is against federal regulations to alter this setting..."

But why is what I want to know. I have experimented with blocking the front/bottom intake but I haven't really had enough time or dry wood to really come to a educated conclusion.


----------



## Diabel (Dec 1, 2018)

frased said:


> Hey all I have the CAT griddle and flue all cruising at the right temps. I have to say wow. You would be flying blind without this data. Normally you’d be thinking I need to see a big dancing flame fire. Nope. This is awesome. Man when the VC is dialed in it’s an impressive appliance.




Nice

Here is my typical 2550 9h burn.


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## frased (Dec 1, 2018)

CAT won’t stop climbing with a fresh log I’m at 1621...

Reccomendations?

Air fully closed

Phew CAT started going down but peaked at 1621


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## Diabel (Dec 1, 2018)

1600
Is still ok
1800 
Open the air and the bypass for few minutes 
If it goes to 1800 then you have a leak issue


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## frased (Dec 1, 2018)

Diabel said:


> 1600
> Is still ok
> 1800
> Open the air and the bypass for few minutes
> If it goes to 1800 then you have a leak issue


So open both damper and air control if things get out of control? 

Thanks man. Just protecting the investment. It was such a big job getting this done. So first big burn has me nervous as hell.


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## begreen (Dec 1, 2018)

A fresh cat is lively. It should settle down in a while.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 2, 2018)

therealdbeau said:


> My Merrimack insert is the same way with the fixed open front/bottom intake. I just wonder why they put such a limit on how much control you have over the air intake. There is a warning in the manual that states:
> 
> "This wood heater has a manufactured-set minimum low burn rate that must not be altered. It is against federal regulations to alter this setting..."
> 
> But why is what I want to know. I have experimented with blocking the front/bottom intake but I haven't really had enough time or dry wood to really come to a educated conclusion.




It's an epa thing. The stoves are designed to work at a certain draft setting and I'm sure work well within a slight variance from their design parameters. However if you have say, significantly stronger draft, then all bets are off. The reason they don't let you shut the air down more is they don't want people making smoldering fires and polluting.

For my situation...well I'm going to modify the stove to make it safe. I know I'm working hard to learn this thing - every burn is basically an experiment where I track all kinds of variables, stove temp, effect of air adjustments at various stages of the burn, smoke out the stack, etc. I'm doing everything I can to get the most control, most safety, most heat, and cleanest burns...if that requires breaking the rules a bit then so be it


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 2, 2018)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 234591
> View attachment 234592
> View attachment 234593
> View attachment 234594
> ...


How do you like your imperial flue thermometer?  I just ordered one on amazon. I didn’t like all the colors on the condar or the price tag.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 2, 2018)

frased said:


> So open both damper and air control if things get out of control?
> 
> Thanks man. Just protecting the investment. It was such a big job getting this done. So first big burn has me nervous as hell.


This can also happen if you shut down primary air to fast. Killing the flames in the fire box leaves all the work for the cat which can drive the cat temps up. The secondary air shutter isn’t exactly a great design either. A lot of us 2550 guys have moded or disconnected and sealed up the secondary air inlet. Don’t get discouraged. These stoves are finicky at times. Just when you think you get it all figured out the stove reminds you that you don’t. Keep at it and you will get it dialed.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Dec 2, 2018)

Make sure your ash pan door is latched. Mine dId same thing first fire and found that it was closed but not latched leakin air up through the grate.  Kevin


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## frased (Dec 2, 2018)

Thanks guys!

 Good tip on closing the air to fast I was definitely doing that last night. 

 Here is one thing I really noticed is when I put three fresh logs in during a well-established coal fire that the temperatures go crazy no matter what I do to the air control. I hit 1695 on the cat at one point peak. Now I started putting in just two fresh logs and it seems to be a little bit more controllable. 

 Granted I’m burning maple which I believe is dryer than I thought probably too dry but it’s only been sitting for six months. My wood sits stacked in the sunshine with air flowing so it dries quick. 

 Here’s a question…  if the temperature starts to get raging out-of-control I think one of you said open both air controls? I’m just trying to make sure I have the process down if things go nuts. It’s nerve racking.


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## Diabel (Dec 2, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> How do you like your imperial flue thermometer?  I just ordered one on amazon. I didn’t like all the colors on the condar or the price tag.



I like it. Blends in and was 15.00. I have one on each stove.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 2, 2018)

frased said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> Good tip on closing the air to fast I was definitely doing that last night.
> 
> ...


Try letting your coals burn down a little longer before you reload. I typically fill my firebox all the way up to the GT so 2 or 3 splits shouldn’t matter. I would invest in a moisture meter from Home Depot or Lowe’s. If your maple is only 6 months c/s/s I’m going to say probably not dry enough. I’ve found that wood above 19-20% MC will still off gas sending all kinds of smoke to the cat but is a little harder to keep flames going in the box. Which results in high cat temps. Try taking the secondary air cover off and watch the shutter close during a burn. If the timing is off they can actually start to reopen causing cat temps to skyrocket as well. And yes if you have a run away cat just open the damper and let it cool down. You can leave primary closed. But should probably open it back up when you close the damper again. You will get frustrated many times before you get this stove tamed so just keep working at it and ask questions.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 2, 2018)

ok still not eniugh control on my monty....air all the way down and cruising at 730. sigh


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## Woody Stover (Dec 2, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Try letting your coals burn down a little longer before you reload.


Or pull the coals to the front, or even push them to the back so that the burn has to fight its way upstream, against the flow of air in the box. If you have coals under the entire load, a lot more wood will be gassing by the time you have the stove up to temp.


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## frased (Dec 2, 2018)

I may be dialing into this thing...

Full load... established fire (didn’t wait an hour like the manual suggests this time)... 15 minutes...  closed primary all the way to slow it down... 

Griddle hit 500 closed damper AND left primary closed... 

CAT has been on cruise control 1000 for over an hour. Nice!


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

Well guys I thought I had the stove someone dialed in but I guess not. Last night my griddle temperatures went off the chart. I had my primary closed. Had to disengage the cat when I saw it going up to 1600 fast. Here are some pictures of the fire and my temperatures. I’m not sure what to do from here it’s just seemed crazy the griddle temperature. Again I have an 8 inch chimney maybe too much draft.

 If I open the ashpan, doors, etc or anything like that the draft increases. So I don’t think the stove itself has leaks.

This made me nervous.

 The griddle temperature stayed at 850 for about an hour. I have the lights off but stove doesn’t look like it’s glowing red.

Do I need an inline pipe damper now?


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

I wonder if the maple  i’m using is a soft maple that has completely dried out and the last six months seven months. It seems to catch fire pretty quickly and I’m wondering if last night I just had too many pieces of it in the fire. And it ran out of control even with the primary closed. 

 Or should I be able to kill the fire when I close that primary all the way. 

Just scared the crap outta me. That it can get out of control.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

Are you sure the primary door is closing all the way?  Just because the lever closes all the way doesn’t mean the flapper is. It’s cable driven so if there is any obstructions or it is not adjusted correctly it will not completely close. 
Did you ever observe the secondary air operation?  How tall is your chimney?


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## Diabel (Dec 4, 2018)

Few things:

Why are you opening the ashpan door? You should only open it to empty the ash. 

With the stove completely shut down, are these flames continues or just burst of flame once in a while (I will get that once or twice in a burn, sometimes not at all).

There are very good instructions in this thread (from last year) how to determine if the secondary air flapper is closing properly. 

On a cold stove close the primary air lever rapidly all the way down, you should hear a metallic closing sound from the primary air door. If you can get behind the stove, observe it’s operation, it should close completely.



Again, ashpan door........only for ash removal!


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Few things:
> 
> Why are you opening the ashpan door? You should only open it to empty the ash.
> 
> ...



Thanks guys.  The ashpan door was only to check the seal.  Wanted to make sure it was closing securely and I latched it correctly.  Soon as I moved it an inch the flames jumped. 

I'll check the primary air lever and that flapper.  Maybe it isn't closing all the way. 

1 thing I have been thinking about is my chimney height is tall...  because of all the codes and where it exits the house.  I had to do the 2ft above roof ridge line (within 10ft rule).  So my chimney is 16.5 feet outside...  plus the 4ft griddle to elbow inside.  2ft horizontal to outside Tee.  That gives me 20ft...  22ft if I count the horizontal. 

I just moved the primary back n forth and I'm not hearing the "metallic closing sound".  Going to let this stove cool for the day and get in there tonight. 

I thought I was going to destroy the stove last night.


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## Diabel (Dec 4, 2018)

Your chimney sounds fine in terms of height. I would not consider a damper at all.

Another neat tool is the IR gun. It gives you a very accurate temp reading. Once I bought one, I realized how inaccurate the magnetic thermometers are, especially at higher ten readings.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> I wonder if the maple  i’m using is a soft maple that has completely dried out and the last six months seven months. It seems to catch fire pretty quickly and I’m wondering if last night I just had too many pieces of it in the fire.


Yes, soft Maple dries quickly. And it catches fire and gasses off quickly so if you had a bunch of smaller splits in there, you could have been creating a ton of volatiles..


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

Woody brings up a good point. How big are your splits?


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Woody brings up a good point. How big are your splits?



Here is a picture of them... when I do the “knock” test together it has the dry clunk sound.

Maybe this stuff is out of control dry.

 Moisture meter is showing about 18% average.


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## Dobish (Dec 4, 2018)

check out the primary first, make sure it is closing. Double check your ash pan door and make sure it is sealed up all the way snug. I found that after a few burns, I had to tighten up the handle on the ash pan.

Also, try putting some green wood in there as well, that might help.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

When checking for moisture content:
Bring piece of wood to room temperature 
Split again to open a fresh face
Jam probes with grain into freshly exposed face.


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> When checking for moisture content:
> Bring piece of wood to room temperature
> Split again to open a fresh face
> Jam probes with grain into freshly exposed face.



Done...  16% - 18% average

It does feel dry to the touch and sound when I do the "clank" pieces together.  But moisture meter shows 16% - 18%.


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

Ok so I think I see now the 2 x air controls.  Primary and secondary.

So I removed the black cover and can watch the secondary air shutter and if its functional during my next burn?  I see what you mean about disconnecting it...  looks like a little thermostat connected to it.  And its overall value comes into question.  

I also check the primary air shutter.  It seems to mostly shut 99%. There may be a centimeter between close and clank from the shutter fully closing. Could that centimeter make that much of a difference? Should I mess with adjustment? Assuming that little screw on the shutter is exactly that an adjustment screw? It's definitely fully operational. I just question that little centimeter. And should the shutter "rest" naturally against the base without any cable tension whatsover.

Thank you guys for all your help on this.  Sorry to be so chatty but these things are no toy.  Want to get it right.

Here are 2 x pictures 1 with primary closed.  1 showing secondary shutter when stove is cooled off.  No fire.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> Here is a picture of them... when I do the “knock” test together it has the dry clunk sound.
> 
> Maybe this stuff is out of control dry.
> 
> Moisture meter is showing about 18% average.



That's gasser wood or at least it would be fro my stove.  A lot of that in there may be a big part of the problem.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> Here is a picture of them..Maybe this stuff is out of control dry. Moisture meter is showing about 18% average.


The splits don't look too small and 18% isn't too dry. First, check the things on the stove that these gurus mention, then you can play with the coal bed when reloading as I mentioned above, to limit gassing when you are ramping up a new load. Or you could just burn a couple smaller splits to get the stove up to temp, then put in your main load and cut the air earlier to limit gassing. Also, dense woods Oak, hard Maple, Locust etc. catch fire and gas slower at the beginning, but I don't know if you have any on hand that is somewhat dry? You _could_ maybe mix in just one split of it with your drier stuff...I'm just spit-balling here. These guys know the ins and outs, _my_ VC is a cat, a whole 'nother story.


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

Thanks guys.

I'm going to do what you all said.  Watch the secondary auto shutter operation tonight.  Also not sure if I should even touch the adjustment on the primary.  It's a centimeter if that.  It seems to just barely touch/clank on full close.

Last night I had a ton of the "gasser" splits with 1 massive oak split (7 months old) in the middle of it all.  It was fine for an hour but then the griddle took off!  

So maybe tonight just a couple "gassers" to get it started and throw in the oak.  But I'm hesitant about doing a full load again.  Tonight anyway.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> Done...  16% - 18% average
> 
> It does feel dry to the touch and sound when I do the "clank" pieces together.  But moisture meter shows 16% - 18%
> I would say that’s right on point. That’s not too dry to where you can’t control your fire.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> Last night I had a ton of the "gasser" splits with 1 massive oak split (7 months old) in the middle of it all.  It was fine for an hour but then the griddle took off!
> So maybe tonight just a couple "gassers" to get it started and throw in the oak.  But I'm hesitant about doing a full load again.  Tonight anyway.


Yeah, the damp Oak probably held it in check, until it finally got dry in there.
Agreed, take it slow and easy at first and work up to bigger loads as you get a handle on it. All stoves have a learning curve, these more than others. Worry not, these guys will get you up to speed..they have seen it all.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> ok still not eniugh control on my monty....air all the way down and cruising at 730. sigh


Are you able to block the secondary air inlet?


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## frased (Dec 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you able to block the secondary air inlet?



Update looks like the secondary is working (automatically anyway) here is cold and now hot pics closing on its own.

Half oak and half gasser going. Figures I can’t break 400 griddle tonight lol

So should I mess with primary and secondary now that I’ve confirmed working?

Maybe it was fuel last night :-/


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 4, 2018)

frased said:


> Update looks like the secondary is working (automatically anyway) here is cold and now hot pics closing on its own.
> 
> Half oak and half gasser going. Figures I can’t break 400 griddle tonight lol
> 
> ...


My last post was for sculpture of sound.  If your oak is only 7 months css I’m going to say it’s not dry enough so half a box of it might be why you can’t get GT over 400. How is your glass looking?  Cat temps?


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 4, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you able to block the secondary air inlet?


not really. it pulls in along the side panel but there are entry points on the outside and all along the bottom (and deep inside the bottom air path where the fan air also flows, hard to explain but ive had this this quite taken apart and got to see how it all fits together)

the only way i can think to limit it is to block the tubes internally, which i have tried (3 out of 4 about 25% blocked each) and which is helping. it might just be my wood though - it's 98% pine and a lot of it is at about 12%. on top of that i got impatient for more heat on my reload and let too much of it ignite/char before turning the air down. after that it was too late and turning it all the way down just barely managed to contain it, and this time only because it was only about a half load.

is there any way to burn a full load of pine safely? im a bit scared to try a full load, even if i keep the air all the way shut when reloading. 

really I'd just like to be able to have some coals left in the morning. I'll be getting some hardwoods next year but too late for this season.


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## FPX Dude (Dec 4, 2018)

Wow, I just zapped my CAT (who's ever said that before, hahaha!) with IR gun and it was same temp as my firebox, 550-600 degrees, you musta be scared when it was 1000+, that's crazy...sounds like a leaky box or sump'n.


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## Woody Stover (Dec 5, 2018)

FPX Dude said:


> Wow, I just zapped my CAT (who's ever said that before, hahaha!) with IR gun and it was same temp as my firebox, 550-600 degrees, you musta be scared when it was 1000+, that's crazy...sounds like a leaky box or sump'n.


Cat doesn't even start burning until 500, glows around 1000. I don't have a cat probe on this stove, but when I ran the Buck 91 I considered a cat temp of 1000-1500 to be right in the "Goldilocks zone." They say that much hotter than that consistently, you can damage the cat.


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## frased (Dec 5, 2018)

Fuel seems to be my problem... last night I had a beautiful long duration burn. 

Half maple gasser and half greener (7-8 month) oak. Griddle cruised at 525 and CAT maintained 900-1100. Had primary all the way down. Didn’t need more. Nice little flame with a perfect slow cook. Hot coal bed underneath. 

Unable to burn through the night though I didn’t have enough wood in the box?  Taking it slow for now. I’m guessing with a full load that long CAT burn can make it overnight.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 6, 2018)

Same here frased. The fuel makes such a difference, as does how it is loaded.

Tonight for me was almost a perfect burn. My cold start up was virtually smoke free within 20 minutes and the blower kicked on in about 30 (usually it takes 45 to 70 minutes with my lesser starts).

I then reloaded and packed it tight although not full...probably only half the wood I could theoretically fit in there if packed in perfectly, so maybe only 1 or 1.2 cubic feet or so. A couple small pieces of hardwood and one long but smallish split of pine and then a half log (what are these called - when you just split it in half, not quarters or beyond?) Of pine. 

I kept my patience. Reloaded with stove top around 300, turned air down about 90% within a minute or two and let it slowly ramp up. That was one of my problems in the past, trying to charge so much of the reload wood right away, the way you do on a cold start. Letting it char really slow worked well, the fire burned from one side to the other, climbed up to 450 within about 20 mins and then continued to climb to about a 525 cruise. Had flames for about 3 hours and now almost 7 hours later still have a moderate amount of coals. I've no doubt if I loaded it more and used all hardwoods I could get 8 hours easy.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if I loaded it more fully if more of it would have started burning at once and the temp would have climbed too high causing a quicker burn/more off gassing and maybe going too hot again? Air all the way down kept this under control tonight but I believe that was ONLY because I was careful to turn it down so quickly. I think if I had over charred the reload there would have been no way to dial it back enough, so I'd still like more control so that the whole process doesn't have to be surgically precise not for things to spiral out of control.


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## frased (Dec 6, 2018)

@SculptureOfSound  yup same. I’m thinking I need to back down on trying to charge my reloads now. 

Last night I charged the reload to get the griddle back up. Then aired it down. But maybe I’m cooking some of the new oak reload wood and reducing burn times. 

With a couple pieces of maple and couple large oak splits the fire was out by 230 am. 3 hr burn. And that was with a perfect burn. 

So not enough wood in the overnight load to go long duration. My guess. 

My biggest question is this... CAT engaged stove purring away... reload... griddle temp goes down. It’s bedtime... do I need to not engage the CAT again until griddle hits 500? It seems so frustrating at some point I need to sleep. Lol not babysit this stove all night!


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## Dobish (Dec 6, 2018)

frased said:


> @SculptureOfSound  yup same. I’m thinking I need to back down on trying to charge my reloads now.
> 
> Last night I charged the reload to get the griddle back up. Then aired it down. But maybe I’m cooking some of the new oak reload wood and reducing burn times.
> 
> ...



If your is hot, you can reload, let the wood start to catch aflame and engage the cat. I normally try and reload around 30 minutes before I go to bed, so I can turn down the air and it will burn all night.

Last night around 10:30 I loaded up my stove with some black walnut rounds, a few pieces of pine, and engaged the cat within 4-5 minutes. Stove temp was 400º, cat was at 350º, and within a few minutes, my cat was back up to 1000º. I turned down the air and went to bed.  This morning at 7:30, stove temp was 370º, cat was 224º, and there was still a bed of coals to reload off of. 

Room temp went from 72º when I went to bed to 63º when i woke up.


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## Reckless (Dec 7, 2018)

Hello boys and girls, what have I missed? Just getting the stove ready. Pulled all doors and fireback and cementing in the top load (done with that gasket). Also picked up some cat gasket to try out from condor.


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## Diabel (Dec 7, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Hello boys and girls, what have I missed? Just getting the stove ready. Pulled all doors and fireback and cementing in the top load (done with that gasket). Also picked up some cat gasket to try out from condor.




“Cat gasket”? For what?


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## frased (Dec 7, 2018)

Dobish said:


> If your is hot, you can reload, let the wood start to catch aflame and engage the cat. I normally try and reload around 30 minutes before I go to bed, so I can turn down the air and it will burn all night.
> 
> Last night around 10:30 I loaded up my stove with some black walnut rounds, a few pieces of pine, and engaged the cat within 4-5 minutes. Stove temp was 400º, cat was at 350º, and within a few minutes, my cat was back up to 1000º. I turned down the air and went to bed.  This morning at 7:30, stove temp was 370º, cat was 224º, and there was still a bed of coals to reload off of.
> 
> Room temp went from 72º when I went to bed to 63º when i woke up.



I think I finally “got it”... 

All along I kept thinking the griddle needs to be 500 to engage the CAT. I get that on the initial startup fire. 500, engage. 

But I believe what I now understand is you don’t have to wait for the griddle to be 500 every time during reloads? In other words long as the CAT stays over 500 it’s igniting the smoke. Doing its job. 

Do I have this right guys?


----------



## Dobish (Dec 7, 2018)

frased said:


> I think I finally “got it”...
> 
> All along I kept thinking the griddle needs to be 500 to engage the CAT. I get that on the initial startup fire. 500, engage.
> 
> ...



yes. you have it right.


----------



## Reckless (Dec 7, 2018)

Diabel said:


> “Cat gasket”? For what?


Looks like there is a gap and it was only $4..... You know me, always experimenting.


----------



## SculptureOfSound (Dec 7, 2018)

Ok I've been thinking a lot about how to maximize a cold start...does this read as a good start?

Keep in mind exterior chimney, no insulation in the firebox but I do have insulation above blockoff plate.

10am start fire 
10:10 450 degree stove top
10:23  600 stove top, peak temp very minimal smoke from chimney
10:30 air is 90% cut and 575 cruise established

I did a lot of air tweaking in the first 15 minutes. 

0-2.5 min leave door open to spread fire and establish char on kindling and small splits
2.5 -5 cut air about 50%. There was so much off gassing so rapidly, why waste all the heat up the flue by leaving air fully open
5-8 mins cut air about 80%. Secondaries were already happening. Still trying to capitalize on that initial off gassing. Stove climbed quickly during this time though fire was slowly petering out. 
8-12 mins reopen air to about 40 or 50% the thinking here was thatthat earlier phase of cut air helped heat the stove top a lot, was over 400 by about 8 min, so now I reopen the air to let the fire spread a bit and establish more off gassing. Stove top is hot enough already that the rapid off gassing being newly established is mostly burning as secondaries.

12 mins and beyond ...previous  phase climbed to about 520 with air at 50% and more fire was established. Now I turn the air back down, cut about 85-90% and let it cruise. Temp climbed to 600 even then fell back to about 575 where I'm cruising at, although temp is dropping somewhat quickly only because this was a smallish load of mostly pine to get things going. 

Will reload about 2 to 2.5 hours after I started this load....that process will bb much different with air being cut back down 90% almost immediately


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 7, 2018)

Need some help
My son wanted to help with the stove and put some water in the steamer pot.. the stove was hot and he dribbled some water on the stove.. any thoughts on how to get rid of the spots

Thanks


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 8, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Need some help
> My son wanted to help with the stove and put some water in the steamer pot.. the stove was hot and he dribbled some water on the stove.. any thoughts on how to get rid of the spots
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Try a scotch brite pad or steel wool. I’ve been using scotch brite pad for a couple of years. It does basically sand the paint down so after awhile you will most likely have to hit it with some stove paint. I haven’t had to paint mine yet but it’s getting close.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 8, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Try a scotch brite pad or steel wool. I’ve been using scotch brite pad for a couple of years. It does basically sand the paint down so after awhile you will most likely have to hit it with some stove paint. I haven’t had to paint mine yet but it’s getting close.



So will the scotch bright take the paint off some.. will i need to touch it up now.. if i dont touch it up will it rust..
Is ther a specific paint for the vc 2040.. tm thinking its a flat paint


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## Diabel (Dec 8, 2018)

Odd that plain water stained it. Is this a new stove?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 8, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So will the scotch bright take the paint off some.. will i need to touch it up now.. if i dont touch it up will it rust..
> Is ther a specific paint for the vc 2040.. tm thinking its a flat paint


I don’t think it takes a lot off at all. It won’t rust. It shouldn’t be noticeable. I’ve been doing for a few years now to clean up water spots and haven’t had to touch up the paint yet. I would think stove brite stove paint in matte black would do just fine if any touch ups are needed.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 8, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Odd that plain water stained it. Is this a new stove?



Stove is not new.. its got some years on it


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 8, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I don’t think it takes a lot off at all. It won’t rust. It shouldn’t be noticeable. I’ve been doing for a few years now to clean up water spots and haven’t had to touch up the paint yet. I would think stove brite stove paint in matte black would do just fine if any touch ups are needed.



Thanks for the help.. i really appreciate it..GO TEAM VC


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## begreen (Dec 8, 2018)

Stove Brite Metallic Black is used by many stove companies for their cast stoves.The flat looks dull.


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## Dobish (Dec 8, 2018)

We have some pretty bad water stains.  We have very hard water,  lots of sediment when it dries


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## Woody Stover (Dec 8, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> Ok I've been thinking a lot about how to maximize a cold start...does this read as a good start?


You're learning how to integrate all of these variables and use your powers of observation to assess what is happening. That's something that makes it interesting to run a stove. The stove you have provides even more interest and excitement than most others; Enjoy!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 8, 2018)

begreen said:


> Stove Brite Metallic Black is used by many stove companies for their cast stoves.The flat looks dull.



Thanks


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 8, 2018)

Waited for the stove to cool.. did the scotch bright, it worked perfect thank you so much for all the replies and the help


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2018)

Yikes  This is what happens when you close the air half way and then go outside and get distracted for about 15 minutes or so. Luckily it was a quick spike and I’m pretty sure everything is still ok. Don’t want to ever see that again though.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 9, 2018)

What is that reading?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2018)

Cat temps.


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## Diabel (Dec 9, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> View attachment 235254
> 
> Yikes  This is what happens when you close the air half way and then go outside and get distracted for about 15 minutes or so. Luckily it was a quick spike and I’m pretty sure everything is still ok. Don’t want to ever see that again though.



That is warm!

I believe the probe is rated for 2000


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2018)

Diabel said:


> That is warm!
> 
> I believe the probe is rated for 2000


Yeah scary business for sure. Everything seems to working good though


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## ajayabb (Dec 9, 2018)

I’ve had my 2550 run away from me before.  I decided to close up my secondary air intake this week to help minimize  . Hopefully it  will help 


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 9, 2018)

I shut my secondary down at the beginning of this season. Last couple of mornings have been pretty damn cold so I’m guessing any primary air is getting the cat going pretty good.


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## SCBeekeeper (Dec 9, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I shut my secondary down at the beginning of this season. Last couple of mornings have been pretty damn cold so I’m guessing any primary air is getting the cat going pretty good.


Will disconnecting the secondary air vent allow you to better control the cat temps?  Have 2550 with condar watchman thermometer.  Just got it back together and after a few small test burns really put it to the test today.  The thermometer manual says operating temp for condar cat is 700-1350. Have had it up to 1350 twice today and opened the damper to drop the temps.  This is my first experience with a cat.  What temps should be expected and not burn it out?


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## Reckless (Dec 10, 2018)

SCBeekeeper said:


> Will disconnecting the secondary air vent allow you to better control the cat temps?  Have 2550 with condar watchman thermometer.  Just got it back together and after a few small test burns really put it to the test today.  The thermometer manual says operating temp for condar cat is 700-1350. Have had it up to 1350 twice today and opened the damper to drop the temps.  This is my first experience with a cat.  What temps should be expected and not burn it out?



1350 is perfect cruising temps with no worry, heck I don't even mind up in the 1450s. Disconnecting and blocking the secondary has helped some of us get better stove control but YMMV.


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## Reckless (Dec 10, 2018)

Well put 25' of liner down my chimney solo yesterday. Not sure why I think these things are a good idea on a roof with a peak like mine.... Finishing up the connections this week and I can't wait to learn this stove all over again [emoji52]


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 10, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Well put 25' of liner down my chimney solo yesterday. Not sure why I think these things are a good idea on a roof with a peak like mine.... Finishing up the connections this week and I can't wait to learn this stove all over again [emoji52]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you do a complete rebuild this year?


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 10, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Well put 25' of liner down my chimney solo yesterday. Not sure why I think these things are a good idea on a roof with a peak like mine.... [emoji52]



Earning that username of yours


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## frased (Dec 12, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I shut my secondary down at the beginning of this season. Last couple of mornings have been pretty damn cold so I’m guessing any primary air is getting the cat going pretty good.



Randy... just wondering if this is something I should consider eventually. 

I’ve been burning quite a bit now and getting better at choosing the right fuels. That runaway griddle temp burn I had last week was the last time that happened. 

I seem to have CAT temps under control now too. 

So when I close down my primary even with good load of slower burning CAT engaged oak... should I see no flame? Should I be able to kill the fire completely? Or see a little flame in the middle still? Which is what happens now. 

Just wondering how ones controls a burn that gets griddle temps too high even with primary closed. Guess my thought was I should be able to completely kill the fire. Maybe not. 

And should I consider disconnecting secondary some day.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 13, 2018)

I know this is a rookie question, but what is the best way to stack wood in my Encore to get the longest burn? Wood is properly seasoned- yes I re-split and take readings with my moisture meter.
Try and cross-cross the splits? Pull all the coals forward and pack the wood in there from the back to the front? 2 (sort of) parallel stacks with the flame between them? A different way?

I have my cat probe in, and am closing the damper when the GT reaches 450-500 and I see the AT100 temperature climb over 500 so the cat is working (it’s in excellent condition). I am trying to keep my GT temperature at about 450-500 as this is how I heat my home.

My doors are not right. I am going to strip off the gasket in a couple of days and redo it. I adjusted them so the gap is equal from top to bottom where they meet, and have adjusted the latch but it doesn’t pass the dollar bill test. I really don’t remember when the door became a problem.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 13, 2018)

frased said:


> Randy... just wondering if this is something I should consider eventually.
> 
> I’ve been burning quite a bit now and getting better at choosing the right fuels. That runaway griddle temp burn I had last week was the last time that happened.
> 
> ...



If your closing your primary you should see all of the flames go out in the box. You should still see your coals glowing but not super bright.. that is whats going on in my stove


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

frased said:


> Randy... just wondering if this is something I should consider eventually.
> 
> I’ve been burning quite a bit now and getting better at choosing the right fuels. That runaway griddle temp burn I had last week was the last time that happened.
> 
> ...


Once I have closed my primary all the way there is no flame in the box. The coals are glowing a dim orange and every now and than there is secondary flames dancing everywhere. I disconnected my secondary air because my cat wants to run hotter than I want it to. If you are able to keep yours under 1500* than I would say leave it alone for now. Does your secondary flapper have that little stopper nub in the lower corner?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> View attachment 235636
> 
> 
> I know this is a rookie question, but what is the best way to stack wood in my Encore to get the longest burn? Wood is properly seasoned- yes I re-split and take readings with my moisture meter.
> ...


When I fill my stove I use my shovel and push everything to the back. I then grab my poker I made and drag only the coals forward to the glass. I than spread the ash evenly behind the coals. I like to keep a couple inches of ash in the bottom to prevent the epa holes and any possible ash pan gasket failure to leak air into the firebox. Than using a combination of all sizes of splits I fill the firebox all the way up to the griddle in an E/W orientation. I use big and small splits to come up evenly mainly using the small splits to fill the air gaps between the big splits. Less airspace means more fuel which means longer burn times. Once I get above the andirons I use a piece that spans from one side of the stove to the other to prevent any wood from falling into the glass. If I do everything right and my heat demand is low I can easily get 12 hour burns. I am still only loading twice a day and easily lighting off coals.


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## frased (Dec 13, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> If your closing your primary you should see all of the flames go out in the box. You should still see your coals glowing but not super bright.. that is whats going on in my stove


Regardless of fuel type or how mature the fire is? You can still kill flames?


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

@CTwith3. If you are doing door gaskets I would do glass gaskets as well.


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> @CTwith3. If you are doing door gaskets I would do glass gaskets as well.




And gridle gasket as well. Super easy to do and it yields huge benefits.


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## frased (Dec 13, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Once I have closed my primary all the way there is no flame in the box. The coals are glowing a dim orange and every now and than there is secondary flames dancing everywhere. I disconnected my secondary air because my cat wants to run hotter than I want it to. If you are able to keep yours under 1500* than I would say leave it alone for now. Does your secondary flapper have that little stopper nub in the lower corner?



I’m able to keep it under 1500 99% of the time

My secondary flapper does have that little stopper nub yes.


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## frased (Dec 13, 2018)

Diabel said:


> And gridle gasket as well. Super easy to do and it yields huge benefits.


Best place to order griddle gasket?


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## Diabel (Dec 13, 2018)

frased said:


> Best place to order griddle gasket?



I just buy it from a local hearth shop. Make sure to get the high density (graphite) gasket. Not the white one.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

frased said:


> I’m able to keep it under 1500 99% of the time
> 
> My secondary flapper does have that little stopper nub yes.


I removed the nub so the flapper closed all the way. I also put two small magnets on the bottom of the stove so the flapper couldn’t go past closed and start opening again in the top side. I will look for a picture and show you what I mean.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)




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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 13, 2018)

frased said:


> Regardless of fuel type or how mature the fire is? You can still kill flames?



I haven't burned anything other than wood.. so anything else im not sure like.. biobrick..
But yes i can load my stove full of wood and all flames go out and coles get dim.. and i can actually hear my cat running in the back of the stove..


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## Dobish (Dec 13, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> View attachment 235636
> 
> 
> I know this is a rookie question, but what is the best way to stack wood in my Encore to get the longest burn? Wood is properly seasoned- yes I re-split and take readings with my moisture meter.
> ...



My doors shifted a little bit too after a bit of use. the gasket wasn't the issue, it was the actual adjustment of the handle mechanism to pull the door tighter. 

I load mine going e/w and try and load it as jam packed as I can. I do have a bunch of really short pieces that I will put in N/S if they fit.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 13, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> If your closing your primary you should see all of the flames go out in the box. You should still see your coals glowing but not super bright.. that is whats going on in my stove



I’ve beeen worried about that myself because my GT will eventually drop down to 400 even though the probe reads well over 500. My c0ncern has been that I’m just running my heat up my chimney and not keeping my house warmer.
I still have my question above regarding how to best load with wood.
Additionally, my doors are not passing the dollar bill test regardless of my having tightened the door latch.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

Dobish said:


> My doors shifted a little bit too after a bit of use. the gasket wasn't the issue, it was the actual adjustment of the handle mechanism to pull the door tighter.
> 
> I load mine going e/w and try and load it as jam packed as I can. I do have a bunch of really short pieces that I will put in N/S if they fit.


I take those real short ones and stand them up vertically on the sides.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 13, 2018)

Read


CTwith3 said:


> I’ve beeen worried about that myself because my GT will eventually drop down to 400 even though the probe reads well over 500. My c0ncern has been that I’m just running my heat up my chimney and not keeping my house warmer.
> I still have my question above regarding how to best load with wood.
> Additionally, my doors are not passing the dollar bill test regardless of my having tightened the door latch.


Read post 252


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 13, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> I’ve beeen worried about that myself because my GT will eventually drop down to 400 even though the probe reads well over 500. My c0ncern has been that I’m just running my heat up my chimney and not keeping my house warmer.
> I still have my question above regarding how to best load with wood.
> Additionally, my doors are not passing the dollar bill test regardless of my having tightened the door latch.



So there are a number of ways to look at this. Dont take any of this the wrong way.. your always going to lose heat up the chimney.  you need to get used to the fact that your griddle temp is not going to be high if you're running it in cat mode with the air all the way down. what you're trying to achieve is an overnight burn so you don't have to get up in the middle of the night and reload. running the stove with the are all the way back will produce heat all night and will allow you to reload in the morning. for me the object of the cat is not to produce heat but produce a clean enough burn for me not to fill my stove pipe up with creosote and cause a fire and burn my house down. the cat does produce heat, the back of the stove is warm my house does drop down in temperature at night, this is to be expected but first thing in the morning when I wake up I have a large amount of Cole's, drop a bunch of wood in it run the temperature up to 600 or so and warm the house back up. My house temp drops at night when I go to bed my house is around 68 degrees when I wake up in the morning my house is 65 to 66 degrees.. i never wake up thinking my house will stay at 68. The object for me, is to burn all night, keep the house at a reasonable temperature, and not have to start a fire from scratch first thing in the am.. right now the temp is not that cold out and i still manage to go 4 or 5 days with out starting a fire from scratch

As for your doors I'd check amd make sure you not getting any air intrusion. One key way is to dampen it down and turn your primary air all the way back. If you fire keeps going your leaking air.. your stove should be at dimly lit coles and no flames


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## frased (Dec 13, 2018)

CHIMNEY FIRE!

Hey all man just when I think I have this stove thing dialed in again.

Griddle at 500... already had CAT engaged. Nice little fire. Down to coals and a little log. 

Decided bed time load. 

So I loaded up sides top bottom with Oak. Somewhat greener.

Anyway the last log I put on didn’t block damper but was tall in the firebox. Sort of in front of it. Definitely not blocking it. 

Here’s where things went haywire... my CAT was nearing 1800... so I opened damper to cool it. Left stove unattended for 5 minutes. Came down to chimney temp screaming at 800. I closed damper but I could hear flames reaching the damper back of stove. Chimney hit 1000. 

I tried going back n forth closing damper, cooling chimney... opening cooling CAT back n forth... but chimney kept raging...  

Did what I had to do! Opened window next to stove and starting chucking flaming logs out. 

It worked. Got fire, chimney, CAT under control. 

What caused the chimney fire? Or the flames racing up back of stove? Does a hot hot cat also cause that situation? 

My chimney etc is new. It wasn’t a creosote fire. Or shouldn’t have been?!  But flames were reaching back of stove. It was nuts. Help.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 13, 2018)

Frased- glad you caught it in time and we’re able to take back control.

I left the house in a hurry this afternoon and thought I’d get back in time to redo my door gaskets, but that didn’t happen so the stove went cold.
I packed my stove like Randy said in post 252 and I had the stove up to 550 for almost an hour to heat the house, and the dialed the air back to run at 450; that was 5 1/2 hours ago, and now I’m down to coals. I was burning cherry and a couple small splits of oak.


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## ajayabb (Dec 13, 2018)

Is it possible you have an air leak somewhere 


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## frased (Dec 14, 2018)

Hey all... my 2550 was brand new as you know. Never used. 

But even though it was never used my fear is my griddle, door, and ash pan gaskets probably lost that sponge affect. Sat for 15-20 years. 

When I look at them they have that permanent molded look. Even though they were all brand new still. 

I don’t think I need to take my flue collar off too. 

Trying not to open a huge can of worms here.

Ordering a gasket kit on amazon today. 

Any tips on this job? Removing old cement tricks?


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2018)

frased said:


> Hey all... my 2550 was brand new as you know. Never used.
> 
> But even though it was never used my fear is my griddle, door, and ash pan gaskets probably lost that sponge affect. Sat for 15-20 years.
> 
> ...



Dremel is your friend here! It will clean those grooves in minutes.

Have you done the dollar test on the doors, griddle?


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## frased (Dec 14, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Dremel is your friend here! It will clean those grooves in minutes.
> 
> Have you done the dollar test on the doors, griddle?


I did not do the dollar test.

I swear the doors seem to seal good.

But I question the griddle. When the firebox is smokey before the draft reverses I get smoke leaking out griddle top. Not normal?

I also thought one time I could see yellow through back side of griddle when closed.

I definitely don’t want to waste time on unneeded gaskets.

My doors seem to seal well. The flame noticeably goes down when I close the doors up.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2018)

The griddle gasket in the easiest to replace of them all on the Encore. 

Do the test on the griddle, doors and especially the ash pan!!


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## CTwith3 (Dec 14, 2018)

You shouldn’t see smoke coming out of your stove with everything (doors, griddle top, edges of the glass, ash pan) closed.


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## frased (Dec 14, 2018)

Diabel said:


> The griddle gasket in the easiest to replace of them all on the Encore.
> 
> Do the test on the griddle, doors and especially the ash pan!!



Dumb question I’m assuming dollar bill test is close doors, griddle, ash pan...  see if dollar bill is removable from test spot?  Testing sections of gasket. 

Searched for this test.


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## Diabel (Dec 14, 2018)

frased said:


> Dumb question I’m assuming dollar bill test is close doors, griddle, ash pan...  see if dollar bill is removable from test spot?  Testing sections of gasket.
> 
> Searched for this test.



Yes. Close the griddle with the bill (or piece of paper)  1/2 way in, then try to pull it out. If it comes out easily then the gasket failed the test. If you cannot move the bill, then it is a good sign. Move say 5” further and repeat. Same for the doors and ashpan


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 14, 2018)

Any one have the encore 2040 manual in pdf they can send me


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 14, 2018)

Isn't it on line on the VC website?  Kevin


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 14, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Isn't it on line on the VC website?  Kevin


Thats the newer manual.. im looking for the original 2040


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 14, 2018)

Figured I just "piggyback" on this thread since its an Encore 2040 concern.  The Right glass in the doors seems to clean itself better than the left side.  At first I thought maybe just the recent fire was hotter on that side to burn it clean, but now I'm not so sure its not the way the draft is set up in the stove whereby its just not a even wash across the doors.  I was told before I bought it that the glass wash system on these was nothing to write home about and that not to expect it would stay clean by any stretch, so I'm okay with that sort of.  Any thoughts though welcomed.   Kevin


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 14, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Figured I just "piggyback" on this thread since its an Encore 2040 concern.  The Right glass in the doors seems to clean itself better than the left side.  At first I thought maybe just the recent fire was hotter on that side to burn it clean, but now I'm not so sure its not the way the draft is set up in the stove whereby its just not a even wash across the doors.  I was told before I bought it that the glass wash system on these was nothing to write home about and that not to expect it would stay clean by any stretch, so I'm okay with that sort of.  Any thoughts though welcomed.   Kevin



My glass is dirty after every overnight burn. Each morning i drop in some wood and get it up to 600 to 650 and it all burns off.. clean as a whistle after 40 minutes. This is what my glass looks like with no cleaning


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## frased (Dec 14, 2018)

Hey guys what do you think was this my problem? Not only was my ash pan door out of adjustment again. Now it’s closing completely. But take a look at this there is some cement missing in this corner where the ash door shuts definitely air gets in there. It’s near the EPA hole area.

I need to seal that up with cement correct?

I did the dollar check on doors, griddle, etc all are good.

Let me know if this was definitely an issue. Seems like decent amount of air could penetrate that little spot. You can telll when the stove was built at the factory it was the little detail spot they missed with cement. Nothing is cracked or broken.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 14, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> My glass is dirty after every overnight burn. Each morning i drop in some wood and get it up to 600 to 650 and it all burns off.. clean as a whistle after 40 minutes. This is what my glass looks like with no cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hum, my glass has never cleaned up like that.  But I rarely run the stove at anything above 550 GT.  Maybe I'm running it just too cold for it to burn off?  Kevin


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 14, 2018)

Bought some good dry oak from the local stove store (really cool place with a great manager, we talked like stove nerds for a good 30 minutes even though I ended up getting my insert off of Craigslist rather than them, shout-out to Adrian if he's reading this) and wow yeah it burns a lot differently than pine. I mean I knew it would from all I've read but it's cool to actually experience drastically different woods firsthand.

I put one big split and two small splits of oak in there along with two small pine splits to get things going quickly (I was reloading on almost zero coals) and now 4.5 hours later I've still got a 370 stove top and quite a few coals. 

Curious to see how long these coals last. I figure I only had about 1/3 the oak I could have fit if I had used only oak and loaded it full, so I'm thinking overnight burns shouldn't be too difficult with good dry oak.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 14, 2018)

@frased nice find. Definitely worth sealing with cement, it can't hurt. You could stuff it with aluminum foil in the meantime to see if there's a noticeable difference


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 15, 2018)

frased said:


> Hey guys what do you think was this my problem? Not only was my ash pan door out of adjustment again. Now it’s closing completely. But take a look at this there is some cement missing in this corner where the ash door shuts definitely air gets in there. It’s near the EPA hole area.
> 
> I need to seal that up with cement correct?
> 
> ...



I would seal it up for sure.. may want to use a high temp silicone in an area like that.. it may stay put better


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 15, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Hum, my glass has never cleaned up like that.  But I rarely run the stove at anything above 550 GT.  Maybe I'm running it just too cold for it to burn off?  Kevin


Run it like 600 or so for a little.. it will clean up. When i clean out my stove i also take a damp paper towel and wipe down the glass from all the fly ash that sticks to the glass. Sometimes there is some black on the glass and that just wipes off also..


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 15, 2018)

Woodsplitter, got what your saying.  The stove is in a small addition to the house so running it at 600 or more for any extended length of time would over heat the room.  Around 500 is where I'm usually at.  Can see from your picture its cranking pretty good.   Kevin


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 15, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Woodsplitter, got what your saying.  The stove is in a small addition to the house so running it at 600 or more for any extended length of time would over heat the room.  Around 500 is where I'm usually at.  Can see from your picture its cranking pretty good.   Kevin



My stove is in an open flooor plan.. it makes a big difference.. i see your dilemma..


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## CTwith3 (Dec 15, 2018)

The dollar bill test is mentioned in the manual on p. 29.
“Close the door on a dollar bill and at- tempt to pull it free. If the bill is freed with little resistance, the gasket isn’t snug enough at that spot. Continue to make small adjustments until the setting is right.”


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## CTwith3 (Dec 15, 2018)

Thanks guys.
I replaced the door and glass gaskets today, and I had already changed the sh pan gasket a few weeks ago, and the griddle top gasket in the middle of October. I think it’s going to be better- at least I hope so. 
I  twisted and trimmed carefully with both a very sharp pair of scissors and a new razor, but I have a problem with not leaving a ragged end no matter how I twist it.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 15, 2018)

Yup.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 15, 2018)

Your looking for air leaks, and a dollar bill is pretty thin, so I would assume so.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 16, 2018)

Three good oak splits, two small pine splits. 2.5 hours after reload and stove just peaked at over 700 about 10 mins ago. It was at 650 for a long time before that and back at 650 now. 

There's been secondary action this whole time. Never got more than two hours of flame time total with the pine and here 2.5 hours in and its going strong, probably another hour of flames left or so. 

The heat I'm getting is incredible. Too much really for this 20 degree night but I'm not complaining. 

I could have gotten a fair bit more wood in there if I had packed it to the gills. Just worried that it would overfire as the temp just kept climbing slowly for the first two hours, and that is with the air all the way shut. The flames were mostly lazy and at some points it was only aurora borealis style secondaries with almost no primary flame. Flue temp stayed lower than before too, even though my stove top was higher. 


Maybe if I loaded it with all oak it would have been ok due to it off gassing slower. Not sure and still a bit scared to load her up full but will do it in an afternoon where I can monitor the whole burn. Still seems to me like if too much wood catches early on that temps climb crazy high.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 16, 2018)

Wood Splitter: here is the manual I have in pdf form

If you want a copy give me your email.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 16, 2018)

Pulled coals to the front, packed my stove with wood, stove went to 400 so I closed the damper and then the air to get a low long burn.
I ended up with GT or 300 and a cat temp of 1380 degrees. I could hear the rushing sound.
I have 8” Ventis Class a double wall pipe so I have no idea what the flue temp is at any time. If my cat temp is 1400 what would my flue temp be, and should I woory?
How hot is too hot for the cat?
Right now i’vevsett It down to 625 on the gt, and 925 on the cat. I don’t need 650, 450 would be great.

Also, where can Imfind good instructions on how to close up the secondary air inlet?


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## nunyabinis (Dec 16, 2018)

An interesting article regarding VC:

https://www.vnews.com/Editorial-Investment-in-Vermont-Castings-18362792

An interesting video tour of VC with Bob Villa:


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 16, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Pulled coals to the front, packed my stove with wood, stove went to 400 so I closed the damper and then the air to get a low long burn.
> I ended up with GT or 300 and a cat temp of 1380 degrees. I could hear the rushing sound.
> I have 8” Ventis Class a double wall pipe so I have no idea what the flue temp is at any time. If my cat temp is 1400 what would my flue temp be, and should I woory?
> How hot is too hot for the cat?
> ...



That rushing sound or baby jet engine sound is your cat running and that sound is good. 1300 is a good number. I also have 8in pipe. I mesure  right before it gets to the 8in double wall. This would be the collar that connects the stove and the double wall pipe  Not a super optimal spot but close enough.  I also take my IR gun and read where it is vented.. where i can see the inside wall pipe. I just started the stove so the temp is a little low


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 16, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> Wood Splitter: here is the manual I have in pdf form
> 
> If you want a copy give me your email.


Thanks for the reply.. pm sent


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## begreen (Dec 16, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Thats the newer manual.. im looking for the original 2040


You can download the 2010 manual here
https://www.manualslib.com/download/930691/Vermont-Castings-Encore-2040.html


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## Reckless (Dec 16, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Did you do a complete rebuild this year?



Nah I'm only 3 years in on my last rebuild, probably do another in 2 years or so.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 16, 2018)

Reckless said:


> Nah I'm only 3 years in on my last rebuild, probably do another in 2 years or so.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Your rebuilding your stove every 5yrs.. what stove do you have


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## Reckless (Dec 16, 2018)

Encore 2550. I have only rebuilt it once so far and I'm planning on moving that stove to the basement so it would be a good time to tear it down again and see if I missed anything [emoji23]


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## frased (Dec 16, 2018)

Well first burn guys since my big event and ash pan door fix. 

Anyway I seem to definitely have more control now using primary air control.

We’ll see how it goes. So far so good.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 17, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> That rushing sound or baby jet engine sound is your cat running and that sound is good. 1300 is a good number. I also have 8in pipe. I mesure  right before it gets to the 8in double wall. This would be the collar that connects the stove and the double wall pipe  Not a super optimal spot but close enough.  I also take my IR gun and read where it is vented.. where i can see the inside wall pipe. I just started the stove so the temp is a little low
> View attachment 235889



No room. You said 1300 is a good number, but is 1400? 1500? What number is the maximum?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 17, 2018)

begreen said:


> You can download the 2010 manual here
> https://www.manualslib.com/download/930691/Vermont-Castings-Encore-2040.html


Thanks.. but it dosent let you download the entire document, and it has wrighting on it over the document page..


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 17, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> View attachment 235969
> 
> 
> No room. You said 1300 is a good number, but is 1400? 1500? What number is the maximum?



I see your set up is different than mine


----------



## frased (Dec 17, 2018)

frased said:


> Well first burn guys since my big event and ash pan door fix.
> 
> Anyway I seem to definitely have more control now using primary air control.
> 
> We’ll see how it goes. So far so good.



I had glowing red coals after 9 hrs and not a full load in the stove! That is an entirely new experience for me. Think I may have solved the air leak! For now anyway.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 17, 2018)

that is awesome to hear Frased. did the fire react differently to the air controls this burn?


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## frased (Dec 17, 2018)

SculptureOfSound said:


> that is awesome to hear Frased. did the fire react differently to the air controls this burn?


It appeared to kill the flames down more successfully. And quickly. Before it was not as controllable.

Picture of coals at 9 hrs.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 17, 2018)

frased said:


> It appeared to kill the flames down more successfully. And quickly. Before it was not as controllable.
> 
> Picture of coals at 9 hrs.



That looks much better..and sounds much better


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## frased (Dec 17, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> When I fill my stove I use my shovel and push everything to the back. I then grab my poker I made and drag only the coals forward to the glass. I than spread the ash evenly behind the coals. I like to keep a couple inches of ash in the bottom to prevent the epa holes and any possible ash pan gasket failure to leak air into the firebox. Than using a combination of all sizes of splits I fill the firebox all the way up to the griddle in an E/W orientation. I use big and small splits to come up evenly mainly using the small splits to fill the air gaps between the big splits. Less airspace means more fuel which means longer burn times. Once I get above the andirons I use a piece that spans from one side of the stove to the other to prevent any wood from falling into the glass. If I do everything right and my heat demand is low I can easily get 12 hour burns. I am still only loading twice a day and easily lighting off coals.


Randy,

Do you leave your ashpan full at all times?


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 17, 2018)

frased said:


> Randy,
> 
> Do you leave your ashpan full at all times?



I dont.. i empty it out like every 10 to 14 days..


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 17, 2018)

I have a fairly new Defiant flexburn, purchased in 2016.

When starting a fire, it gets going fairly quickly and i get the griddle temp up to 450-500ish.  When I shut the damper the catalyst temp begins to climb rapidly and in a couple minutes I'm over 1000 degrees (I have a digital probe in).  After that I start getting loud roaring noise out of the back of the stove and the cat temps quickly climb to 1800 or so.  The problem I have is that it seems I also have weak draft, if I turn down the air any more than half it puffs like crazy however, if I turn the air down around half the cat temp just keeps climbing.  Eventually I open up the damper, close the air control all the way and let the cat cool down to 1000 or so.  After engaging the cat again I get a thunderous noise out of the catalyst and it takes off like mad, scares the crap out of me.  Tonight I had to just open the doors and let it burn like that for the rest of the time.

Stove has 8" pipe coming out, 2 45s into a masonry chimney, then 90 up the chimney.  Chimney is lined with a appx 7" x 11" oval flexible liner with some sort of vermiculite type substance around it.

Any ideas at all?

I grew up with an old VC (vigilant I think it was) from the 70s or so and that was the reason I went with the VC.  However, I'm about ready to give up on this stove.  It has me worried to start another fire in it..


----------



## Dobish (Dec 17, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> I have a fairly new Defiant flexburn, purchased in 2016.
> 
> When starting a fire, it gets going fairly quickly and i get the griddle temp up to 450-500ish.  When I shut the damper the catalyst temp begins to climb rapidly and in a couple minutes I'm over 1000 degrees (I have a digital probe in).  After that I start getting loud roaring noise out of the back of the stove and the cat temps quickly climb to 1800 or so.  The problem I have is that it seems I also have weak draft, if I turn down the air any more than half it puffs like crazy however, if I turn the air down around half the cat temp just keeps climbing.  Eventually I open up the damper, close the air control all the way and let the cat cool down to 1000 or so.  After engaging the cat again I get a thunderous noise out of the catalyst and it takes off like mad, scares the crap out of me.  Tonight I had to just open the doors and let it burn like that for the rest of the time.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are using really dry wood,  or you have a leak somewhere.  Back puffing will happen if you close the air too quickly.  

What type of wood,  what moisture content, and how long is your total chimney length?


----------



## Gnanneb86 (Dec 17, 2018)

Dobish said:


> It sounds like you are using really dry wood,  or you have a leak somewhere.  Back puffing will happen if you close the air too quickly.
> 
> What type of wood,  what moisture content, and how long is your total chimney length?



It is really dry wood.  Sat in logs for 3 to 4 years before being split a year ago.  Reads around 15 percent with a HF moisture meter.

I try to close the air as slow as possible.

I thought it may be a leaky gasket but checked all with a dollar bill and seem tight, and the flames are still controllable with the air control.  The one spot it is pulling major air from is where the oval adapter attaches to the stove, but not sure that would be affecting anything.  It whistles from there pretty loud it's pulling so much air.

Chimney is around 16 to 18 feet above stove top.

Some pics as well... sorry for the deck construction at the time haha


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> I have a fairly new Defiant flexburn, purchased in 2016.
> 
> When starting a fire, it gets going fairly quickly and i get the griddle temp up to 450-500ish.  When I shut the damper the catalyst temp begins to climb rapidly and in a couple minutes I'm over 1000 degrees (I have a digital probe in).  After that I start getting loud roaring noise out of the back of the stove and the cat temps quickly climb to 1800 or so.  The problem I have is that it seems I also have weak draft, if I turn down the air any more than half it puffs like crazy however, if I turn the air down around half the cat temp just keeps climbing.  Eventually I open up the damper, close the air control all the way and let the cat cool down to 1000 or so.  After engaging the cat again I get a thunderous noise out of the catalyst and it takes off like mad, scares the crap out of me.  Tonight I had to just open the doors and let it burn like that for the rest of the time.
> 
> ...



Regarding your back puffing. Back puffing occurs when there is a buildup of gasses in the box that light off. This is not a draft issue, this is more of opperator error. Please dont be upse by that. I when im in cat mode at first i can't turn the air back past half way with a good amount of wood that is just gassing off.  As far as the high cat temps it almost sounds like there is too much wood and coles lit off. When om doing an overnight burns. I get the cat going with a small to medium load of wood. Then load it fully with on a medium bed of coles close the damper right away let a little wood catch turn the air to half way, couple minutes later turn the air all the way down.. my cat temp then will be about 1100. After a couple hours it will hover at 1000.. the key is NOT to allow all of the wood in the box to light up.. this is why you pre light the cat and get it up to temp..


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Regarding your back puffing. Back puffing occurs when there is a buildup of gasses in the box that light off. This is not a draft issue, this is more of opperator error. Please dont be upse by that. I when im in cat mode at first i can't turn the air back past half way with a good amount of wood that is just gassing off.  As far as the high cat temps it almost sounds like there is too much wood and coles lit off. When om doing an overnight burns. I get the cat going with a small to medium load of wood. Then load it fully with on a medium bed of coles close the damper right away let a little wood catch turn the air to half way, couple minutes later turn the air all the way down.. my cat temp then will be about 1100. After a couple hours it will hover at 1000.. the key is NOT to allow all of the wood in the box to light up.. this is why you pre light the cat and get it up to temp..


Should I try shutting the damper before the stove top gets up to 450 then?

No matter when I start closing the damper and no matter how slow I close it if I go pass half it'll puff eventually, sometimes it's okay for an hour or two but then I'll wake up at night to the smell of smoke and it's puffing away. Also, when reloading I get smoke spillage into the room, which to me seems like it would mean weak draft.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Should I try shutting the damper before the stove top gets up to 450 then?
> 
> No matter when I start closing the damper and no matter how slow I close it if I go pass half it'll puff eventually, sometimes it's okay for an hour or two but then I'll wake up at night to the smell of smoke and it's puffing away. Also, when reloading I get smoke spillage into the room, which to me seems like it would mean weak draft.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk




When was the last time you cleaned the chimney and the brushed off the cat? Do you have a flue thermometer? Flue thermometer is the best indicator as to when to shut the bypass.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 18, 2018)

frased said:


> Randy,
> 
> Do you leave your ashpan full at all times?


Sorry I have been MIA for a bit. Life is crazy right now. I empty my ash pan similar to what woody said. About every 10 days. I try and keep about a 2” layer of ash in the stove though. So as it builds up I will sift through it and let it fall down to the pan until I get about 2 inches. If you are seeing smoke and orange flame through your GT than your gasket is compromised. I replaced the wire mesh gasket with regular 5/16” rope gasket. It seals much better. As far as you having a chimney fire already I would say that’s from using wet oak to make up for a leaky stove thus creating lots of creosote. Bad combination all around. Sounds like you got the ash pan all figured out. Now do the GT and try a mixture of more dry Maple than your oak.


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

I just looked at your pics. 

You should get a flue (ideally probe) if that is a double wall pipe.

With that set up I would imagine you will get some smoke spillage via the griddle in the shoulder season.


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Diabel said:


> When was the last time you cleaned the chimney and the brushed off the cat? Do you have a flue thermometer? Flue thermometer is the best indicator as to when to shut the bypass.


Chimney was cleaned before this heating season, Sept 2018.  The cat is clean as could be, opened it yesterday and checked it.  I do have a flue thermometer, usually around 400 when I shut the bypass.  When the cat takes off the stove top and flue temps stay fairly low even though the cat keeps climbing.  Honestly it's more the thunder roar of the stove that has me concerned when it happens, it sounds scary at times.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I just looked at your pics.
> 
> You should get a flue (ideally probe) if that is a double wall pipe.
> 
> With that set up I would imagine you will get some smoke spillage via the griddle in the shoulder season.


The plan at the moment is to install a new chimney through the house and abandon the masonry setup this summer...just concerned it won't fix the issues I've had with the stove.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

The thermometer is a probe type correct. If so 400 sounds ok and the behavior of the stove top temp is similar to mine. 

Your flexburn is a combination of cat technology and the famous VC “everburn” technology. (Btw the later failed miserably imho).

The roaring is the result of a secondary combustion at the back of the stove. If you don’t have a rear heat shield, try taking a peak at the back of the stove when your cat is at 1800 and the stove is roaring during eve or night when the lights are turned off.
Hopefully, you will NOT see a pretty dark orange glow of the cast parts........do not ask how I know.


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Diabel said:


> The thermometer is a probe type correct. If so 400 sounds ok and the behavior of the stove top temp is similar to mine.
> 
> Your flexburn is a combination of cat technology and the famous VC “everburn” technology. (Btw the later failed miserably imho).
> 
> ...


It's single wall pipe, I use a point and shoot infrared type thermometer on it.

Do you know if it helps to seal up the catalyst thermometer probe hole? My probe is pretty loose in that hole and I feel like it would shoot air right at the cat.

Is it an issue at all that it's pulling so much air where the oval adapter connects to the stove?  It's not a very tight fit there...maybe half inch to three quarters inch gap.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> It's single wall pipe, I use a point and shoot infrared type thermometer on it.
> 
> Do you know if it helps to seal up the catalyst thermometer probe hole? My probe is pretty loose in that hole and I feel like it would shoot air right at the cat.
> 
> ...



Yes try to seal up the adapter, that is a big gap. Try stuffing a rope gasket there (gently) using a flat head   Screwdriver. I would start there. Leave the cat probe hole alone for now.

400 surface flue is about 800 inside the flue. You have to start closing the damper earlier. At what point do you start closing the primary air? It is common practice here to start closing in intervals at around 900 cat reading.


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Diabel said:


> Yes try to seal up the adapter, that is a big gap. Try stuffing a rope gasket there (gently) using a flat head   Screwdriver. I would start there. Leave the cat probe hole alone for now.
> 
> 400 surface flue is about 800 inside the flue. You have to start closing the damper earlier. At what point do you start closing the primary air? It is common practice here to start closing in intervals at around 900 cat reading.


Okay I'll get some gasket and try to seal up that gap.  I put a lighter up to it yesterday to see if it was pulling air and it sucked the flame of the lighter right in and blew it out it was so strong.

Yeah, maybe I'm just waiting too long to start closing the air.  I don't want it to puff so I try to keep the air open all the way and let it run like that till the cat starts getting too hot and I have to do something. 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Okay I'll get some gasket and try to seal up that gap.  I put a lighter up to it yesterday to see if it was pulling air and it sucked the flame of the lighter right in and blew it out it was so strong.
> 
> Yeah, maybe I'm just waiting too long to start closing the air.  I don't want it to puff so I try to keep the air open all the way and let it run like that till the cat starts getting too hot and I have to do something.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk




Yeah, the puffing is a VC signature. Mine used to puff sometimes but always when I tried closing the primary air too fast. 

No stove is perfect.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Should I try shutting the damper before the stove top gets up to 450 then?
> 
> No matter when I start closing the damper and no matter how slow I close it if I go pass half it'll puff eventually, sometimes it's okay for an hour or two but then I'll wake up at night to the smell of smoke and it's puffing away. Also, when reloading I get smoke spillage into the room, which to me seems like it would mean weak draft.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



So when i doing an overnight burn my primary air is all the way off.. so i go from the half way position to all the way off and burn for 11 or so hours
I never reload at night.. if your reloading at night and not getting somthing like 9/10 hours thers somthing being done wrong.
I have the same stove as you and if i want can get over 12 hours. At 10 hours my griddle temperature is still 300 to 325

When your reloading you will need to open the damper and give it a minute to reestablish draft.
The advice that i am giving works for me and my setup. Other people may do it a little different. Also how the stove is set up may change things a little. My set up is an 8in straight up through the roof. 
I get my stove to about 450. It may have about 1/4 full of the box full of splits.. i close tha damper and get the cat lit off. And let the stove run that way for a bit. I know my cat is going by the sound and the cat temp will be around 800 to 1100 depending on how much wood. I let the wood burn down to mostly coles. Now my stove is up to temp cat has been running for a while. I have a box of coles. Coles may be up to the bottom angle of the andirons. Then i load my wood for my overnight burn. Once the wood is loaded i close the damper.. right away. The cat will light back up. I leave the primary air fully open for a minute and let the wood catch a little. Close the air to half way for a minute.. than to fully closed . At this point my cat is some where at 1100. It will stay in that range for quite some time., and my burn will be more that 10 hours


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> The plan at the moment is to install a new chimney through the house and abandon the masonry setup this summer...just concerned it won't fix the issues I've had with the stove.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


This is what is in my stove after 10.5 hours


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> So when i doing an overnight burn my primary air is all the way off.. so i go from the half way position to all the way off and burn for 11 or so hours
> I never reload at night.. if your reloading at night and not getting somthing like 9/10 hours thers somthing being done wrong.
> I have the same stove as you and if i want can get over 12 hours. At 10 hours my griddle temperature is still 300 to 325
> 
> ...


I'm jealous....

After 12 hrs my stove is cold.  Usually after 2 to 3 hrs it's all started to go to coals.

No way I can ever get the air turned down all the way, if the air isn't at least a hair above half it's a puffing nightmare.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> I'm jealous....
> 
> After 12 hrs my stove is cold.  Usually after 2 to 3 hrs it's all started to go to coals.
> 
> ...


If you run the stove as I described as above you will be able to turn the air all the way down and its not going to back puff. The key is to NOT allow that big pile of wood to catch all at once and gass off all at once

Have some faith in your self and the advice your getting.. were not going to lead you down the wrong path and you can do this


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> I'm jealous....
> 
> After 12 hrs my stove is cold.  Usually after 2 to 3 hrs it's all started to go to coals.
> 
> ...



There are so many factors to consider regarding burn times with any stove. Most VC members here consistently get 8 to 12 hours between reloads. So, yes you are doing something wrong. 

As said before. Start with sealing the flue adaptor. Then do the dollar test again on all gaskets. Check the wood MC (very important). Once that is done, experiment with the stove during the day by closing the primary air more and more in increments and watch the behavior of the stove.


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> If you run the stove as I described as above you will be able to turn the air all the way down and its not going to back puff. The key is to NOT allow that big pile of wood to catch all at once and gass off all at once
> 
> Have some faith in your self and the advice your getting.. were not going to lead you down the wrong path and you can do this


Thanks for all the suggestions.

I have never tried a small 1/4 load first to get a good bed of coals.  I've always started with small splits in a cold stove and gradually add larger and eventually have a full load and then get the griddle up to 450 before closing the bypass and then leave the air wide open trying to get the stove temp up.  Maybe I'm waiting too long to start closing the bypass and by that time there is too much flame in the stove.  I'll stop and get some gasket for the adapter this afternoon then give it another go.

Appreciate the help!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions.
> 
> I have never tried a small 1/4 load first to get a good bed of coals.  I've always started with small splits in a cold stove and gradually add larger and eventually have a full load and then get the griddle up to 450 before closing the bypass and then leave the air wide open trying to get the stove temp up.  Maybe I'm waiting too long to start closing the bypass and by that time there is too much flame in the stove.  I'll stop and get some gasket for the adapter this afternoon then give it another go.
> 
> ...



@Diabel has some good advice.  Do some trial runs like on the weekend's when your home to practice and get the stove to run the way you need it to...


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 18, 2018)

Ganne, I feel your pain.  Been there, done that with my Encore 2040.  Took me a season to figure it out and get it under control.  As was said these stoves love to puff back unless you follow the loading instructions directly as in the manual.  And I mean exactly.  Little or no room for deviation or your in puff back land.  With that said it's all about moisture content of the wood (15%-20%) not more not less, size matters (3"-5") pieces (not smaller)18" long, and a good draft (not a mediocre draft).  If you can't meet any one of these ( I call it the 'formula") you will have the puff backs until most all of the wood gasses out.   From my experience the primary air control at a little less than half is like a sweet spot for the puff back to occur.  If you have flames you will be alright.  No flames and the gasses will collect at the top and then ignite when enough accumulates there.  A lesser draft and it probably won't off gas as much but it may not be enough to keep the cat going either.  When I changed a 90 into two 45's and eliminated a 18" horizontal run made a big difference for me.  Woodsplitter has a 8" flue, so likely draft is very good which helps a lot.  Woodsplitter what size are your splits and what wood are you burning?  Your Encore seems to be running great.  Just being able to come close to that would be good for me for burn time.   There was a long thread on this in the VC thread back last January I believe.  Kevin


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Ganne, I feel your pain.  Been there, done that with my Encore 2040.  Took me a season to figure it out and get it under control.  As was said these stoves love to puff back unless you follow the loading instructions directly as in the manual.  And I mean exactly.  Little or no room for deviation or your in puff back land.  With that said it's all about moisture content of the wood (15%-20%) not more not less, size matters (3"-5") pieces (not smaller)18" long, and a good draft (not a mediocre draft).  If you can't meet any one of these ( I call it the 'formula") you will have the puff backs until most all of the wood gasses out.   From my experience the primary air control at a little less than half is like a sweet spot for the puff back to occur.  If you have flames you will be alright.  No flames and the gasses will collect at the top and then ignite when enough accumulates there.  A lesser draft and it probably won't off gas as much but it may not be enough to keep the cat going either.  When I changed a 90 into two 45's and eliminated a 18" horizontal run made a big difference for me.  Woodsplitter has a 8" flue, so likely draft is very good which helps a lot.  Woodsplitter what size are your splits and what wood are you burning?  Your Encore seems to be running great.  Just being able to come close to that would be good for me for burn time.   There was a long thread on this in the VC thread back last January I believe.  Kevin



Kevin.. i am burning about 75% oak the rest is mostly cherry and i just hit a spot with a little walnut. All split are 18in in lengh and the split size varies, from large 4x6 to medium to small dependng on what im trying to do.
My stove pipe is 8in yes but I'm in a ranch so its short. Dont let the 8in fool you. There are plenty of people with tall 6in pipe that overdraft.. kevin read the post 329 this should help out with the long burn. Here's a solid for you.. my overnight wood i split square, it packs the stove quite well. The rest of the wood is how ever it comes out.. but i make sure while i split, 
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 i split about 25% square.. this stacks nicely in the Box


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## CTwith3 (Dec 18, 2018)

Went under my stove to look at the air control door and this is what I saw. Problem?


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

Is this the primary air control? What are those white pieces?


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 18, 2018)

Looks like some insulation?


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

If that is the primary air door then VC redesigned it. It looks totally different from the older Encore models. Nonetheless, that looks like pieces of refractory material. You should remove the pieces allowing the door to close completely.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

I dont see that on mynstove at all.. where is that and what stove are you running..


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Kevin.. i am burning about 75% oak the rest is mostly cherry and i just hit a spot with a little walnut. All split are 18in in lengh and the split size varies, from large 4x6 to medium to small dependng on what im trying to do.
> My stove pipe is 8in yes but I'm in a ranch so its short. Dont let the 8in fool you. There are plenty of people with tall 6in pipe that overdraft.. kevin read the post 329 this should help out with the long burn. Here's a solid for you.. my overnight wood i split square, it packs the stove quite well. The rest of the wood is how ever it comes out.. but i make sure while i split,
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, bigger wood.  Size matters.  I don't have anything near 4X6X18.  I'm going through some small stuff I had cut already for a small Waterford Stove that for this stove is near kindling size.  After I got the Encore this past January I split bigger.  But I need to go bigger yet, then I think I will be there for the long burns.  Did notice you don't care about splits in the opening for the cat in the firebox and it seems not to mind at all.  Always tried to keep it away from there but guess I don't need to really.  Kevin


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## CTwith3 (Dec 18, 2018)

This is my primary door.


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## Diabel (Dec 18, 2018)

All cleaned up, does it close all the way as you shut the primary air lever?


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## CTwith3 (Dec 18, 2018)

30005233- refractory support. That’s the gasket for the refractory support, which is below the cat.
What should I do? It seems that it’s a VC screw-up- somer really sloppy lazy hurried work.

I didn’t touch the primary- just looked.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Yep, bigger wood.  Size matters.  I don't have anything near 4X6X18.  I'm going through some small stuff I had cut already for a small Waterford Stove that for this stove is near kindling size.  After I got the Encore this past January I split bigger.  But I need to go bigger yet, then I think I will be there for the long burns.  Did notice you don't care about splits in the opening for the cat in the firebox and it seems not to mind at all.  Always tried to keep it away from there but guess I don't need to really.  Kevin



I keep them clear...but keep coles and wood near them if that makes any sense


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> @Diabel has some good advice.  Do some trial runs like on the weekend's when your home to practice and get the stove to run the way you need it to...


Just a little update.

Tonight I started the fire with kindling, maybe 1 to 2 inch splits and about 5 of them.  Let that go for a while till they were mostly coals.  Then added some 3 to 4 inch pieces, maybe 4 of them so it was about a quarter full.  Let the stove get up to about 350 to 400ish then shut the damper.  Took the stove maybe 10 mins to get the catalyst up to 500 and then the catalyst climbed slowly instead of taking off like it used to.  Once that catalyst got up around 800 I started to shut the air a bit.  After 30 to 40 mins of continually reducing air bit by bit I was down around only a quarter open for air and no puffing or anything, it ran better than it ever has and burned on those few small pieces for about 3 hrs till I reloaded.  I reloaded with 3 good size junks 5 inch or so. I immediately shut the damper after reload and left the air fully open for 2 to 3 mins before starting to shut the air slowly again.  Right now it's cruising beautifully, cat is hovering around 1000, air is 3/4 shut, small flames in the stove and no back puffing yet.  Seems to be good, hopefully it stays that way tonight.

I'm starting to think that this whole time I've been thinking it wasn't going good enough and didn't have enough draft it's been fine after all, I was just getting too hot before turning the air down.

Just feeling great at the moment, hopefully work my way up to a full load of wood and start enjoying long burn times.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

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## Kevin Weis (Dec 18, 2018)

That primary air door is the same as mine.  That looks auful far open.  Mine from the factory did not close all the way when the lever was closed.  I had to adjust that.  Maybe this is too far open as well.  Check and adjust so it just closes when lever is all the way in closed position.  Funny thing is prior to 17' model the manual said hands off on any adjustments.  17' manual noted a small section to make adjustments to the primary damper.  Need to figure out where that gasket piece came from though.   Kevin


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 18, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Tonight I started the fire with kindling, maybe 1 to 2 inch splits and about 5 of them.  Let that go for a while till they were mostly coals.  Then added some 3 to 4 inch pieces, maybe 4 of them so it was about a quarter full.  Let the stove get up to about 350 to 400ish then shut the damper.  Took the stove maybe 10 mins to get the catalyst up to 500 and then the catalyst climbed slowly instead of taking off like it used to.  Once that catalyst got up around 800 I started to shut the air a bit.  After 30 to 40 mins of continually reducing air bit by bit I was down around only a quarter open for air and no puffing or anything, it ran better than it ever has and burned on those few small pieces for about 3 hrs till I reloaded.  I reloaded with 3 good size junks 5 inch or so. I immediately shut the damper after reload and left the air fully open for 2 to 3 mins before starting to shut the air slowly again.  Right now it's cruising beautifully, cat is hovering around 1000, air is 3/4 shut, small flames in the stove and no back puffing yet.  Seems to be good, hopefully it stays that way tonight.
> 
> ...





Gnanneb86 said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Tonight I started the fire with kindling, maybe 1 to 2 inch splits and about 5 of them.  Let that go for a while till they were mostly coals.  Then added some 3 to 4 inch pieces, maybe 4 of them so it was about a quarter full.  Let the stove get up to about 350 to 400ish then shut the damper.  Took the stove maybe 10 mins to get the catalyst up to 500 and then the catalyst climbed slowly instead of taking off like it used to.  Once that catalyst got up around 800 I started to shut the air a bit.  After 30 to 40 mins of continually reducing air bit by bit I was down around only a quarter open for air and no puffing or anything, it ran better than it ever has and burned on those few small pieces for about 3 hrs till I reloaded.  I reloaded with 3 good size junks 5 inch or so. I immediately shut the damper after reload and left the air fully open for 2 to 3 mins before starting to shut the air slowly again.  Right now it's cruising beautifully, cat is hovering around 1000, air is 3/4 shut, small flames in the stove and no back puffing yet.  Seems to be good, hopefully it stays that way tonight.
> 
> ...



Looks like you got it!


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Looks like you got it!


I feel like I'm getting it, about time!

My wood is on the dry side also, moisture meter read 14 percent on a fresh split tonight...if those harbor freight moisture meters are accurate

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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 18, 2018)

This is at 13 hours. Solid 3” of good coals. Cat was at 655 with primary air just a tad open. This was a load of 4 year css oak.


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## CTwith3 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> That primary air door is the same as mine.  That looks auful far open.  Mine from the factory did not close all the way when the lever was closed.  I had to adjust that.  Maybe this is too far open as well.  Check and adjust so it just closes when lever is all the way in closed position.  Funny thing is prior to 17' model the manual said hands off on any adjustments.  17' manual noted a small section to make adjustments to the primary damper.  Need to figure out where that gasket piece came from though.   Kevin



The primary does close all the way.

It’s the gasket for the refractory support - #7 on the exploded parts diagram in the manual. The stove has never been dismantled, it came this way. So, how is this mangled gasket effecting the stove. At the least the gasket is effecting that sealing point and probably an air leak. 

Will VC take responsibility for this and do something like gets tech to my house? Probably not.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 19, 2018)

Could be was extra gasket material cut away but didn't make it out a there in the end?  Dealer should make it right.  Kevin


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## CTwith3 (Dec 19, 2018)

Kevin- Bought it online 4 years ago.

For you guys that rebuild- how big a deal is it to replace the refractory support gasket on an Encore  2040? 

Randy- what is css oak?


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## Woody Stover (Dec 19, 2018)

CTwith3 said:


> css oak?


4 yrs. cut, split, stacked. Even Red Oak should be dry by then.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 19, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Tonight I started the fire with kindling, maybe 1 to 2 inch splits and about 5 of them.  Let that go for a while till they were mostly coals.  Then added some 3 to 4 inch pieces, maybe 4 of them so it was about a quarter full.  Let the stove get up to about 350 to 400ish then shut the damper.  Took the stove maybe 10 mins to get the catalyst up to 500 and then the catalyst climbed slowly instead of taking off like it used to.  Once that catalyst got up around 800 I started to shut the air a bit.  After 30 to 40 mins of continually reducing air bit by bit I was down around only a quarter open for air and no puffing or anything, it ran better than it ever has and burned on those few small pieces for about 3 hrs till I reloaded.  I reloaded with 3 good size junks 5 inch or so. I immediately shut the damper after reload and left the air fully open for 2 to 3 mins before starting to shut the air slowly again.  Right now it's cruising beautifully, cat is hovering around 1000, air is 3/4 shut, small flames in the stove and no back puffing yet.  Seems to be good, hopefully it stays that way tonight.
> 
> ...



This is exactly why this site exists. I'm so happy for you. Im, personally glad i could help you and i am sure everyone else who helped along the way feels the same. These stoves run great, you just gotta know how to operate them.. ALL stoves have there quirks


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 19, 2018)

I have two year css red oak that I’m mixing in on most loads. I’ve had to split the red oak down to smaller pieces so it burns better though. It’s test around 19-20% MC. What I’m finding with a stove full of larger red oak splits is the cat wants to run real hot while not being able to have a good fire in the stove. Remember the picture I posted of my cat hitting 1900.  So if anyone is burning wood a little on the wet side I would suggest keeping the splits around 3”.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 19, 2018)

Good to know.  Again size seems to play a big role in the operation of these cat stoves (not jus VC).  Too little not good, too big not good.  Kevin


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 19, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> This is exactly why this site exists. I'm so happy for you. Im, personally glad i could help you and i am sure everyone else who helped along the way feels the same. These stoves run great, you just gotta know how to operate them.. ALL stoves have there quirks


So I happened to be home today, we're having some work done on our windows.  

Started the stove same as yesterday and this time went to about half full with 5 inch splits on a nice bed of coals.

All went well at the beginning, cat slowly climbed above 500 and I reduced air bit at a time down past half to 3/4 shut.  Ran like that well for about an hour and then all went dark and it started puffing.  Cat began to climb up to 1450 or so and it continued to puff.  I opened the air and the cat began to roar loudly again and climb to high temps.  I opened the bypass damper and shut the air all the way to let the cat cool down.  Once cat got down to 1000 I opened the air and shut the damper.  I was able to then get the air down to just above half closed and the cat hovered around 1400.  Even a tiny bit less air at this point triggered puffing.  I was able to keep it above half open for the rest of the load but it went through the wood pretty quickly.

Seems the stove is happy with small loads but getting a bigger load to cruise just isn't possible with lower air settings.

On the plus side, with the air above half and the cat at 1400 I had nothing coming out of the chimney at all!

Still thinking maybe my chimney setup isn't ideal.  I think I know how to operate the stove it just isn't the perfect setup to make this stove happy.

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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 19, 2018)

Gnanneb86 said:


> So I happened to be home today, we're having some work done on our windows.
> 
> Started the stove same as yesterday and this time went to about half full with 5 inch splits on a nice bed of coals.
> 
> ...


In an early post it said the you were going to change you chimney set up.. if its still an option than you may want to consider that still..


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 19, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> In an early post it said the you were going to change you chimney set up.. if its still an option than you may want to consider that still..


Correct, that's my next move I think.  Just a lot of remodeling in the house to move the stove and I wouldn't do it if the current setup did work.

My three options are move the stove and build the new chimney through the house, buy a different stove and hope it works better with the current setup, or buy a wood furnace and put it in the basement using an existing chimney from the basement that was once used for a coal furnace no longer in place.

I really want to like the defiant and get it working the way it should so still leaning towards a new chimney setup.

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## Kevin Weis (Dec 19, 2018)

So, the key is to make it off gas less.  Wood will tend to do that if it's too dry.  All the pieces are off gassing at one time may mean too many pieces exposing too many different faces are heating up at the same time.  Maybe try to place on stove so minimal faces are exposed.  Think this may have been mentioned above.  Kevin


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 19, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> So, the key is to make it off gas less.  Wood will tend to do that if it's too dry.  All the pieces are off gassing at one time may mean too many pieces exposing too many different faces are heating up at the same time.  Maybe try to place on stove so minimal faces are exposed.  Think this may have been mentioned above.  Kevin


Yes, after playing with it today it seems like the combination of not excellent draft with dry wood is causing the issue.

I find if I load only half a load, immediately close the damper, and reduce air in increments till it's always closed I can get it to run without puffing.  That seems to be the only way to keep gasses to a minimum.  The cat is still getting up to 1500 at times but that's the best I can do.

Any suggestions for getting better draft out of my current chimney?  The dealer that installed the stove said there is no way to pull out the current liner and replace it with an insulated 6 inch...but it may not hurt to try if I have to abandon it anyway.

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## Diabel (Dec 19, 2018)

Rome was not built in one day!

You had a good burn yesterday and a bad one today. Keep working at it. Get to know your stove.


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## SculptureOfSound (Dec 20, 2018)

For anyone following my Montpelier adventures with too high a burn rate, a miracle of sorts happened. I started the stove yesterday and it burned like a completely different stove. Turning the air all the way down would always kill the fire in the early stages of burn...so I had to run way more open than I normally did for reloads (before I would almost immediately shut it completely closed and things would still take off wildly in a bit).

Once I got the wood started, turning the air down resulted in truly lazy flames that were NOT flickering/flapping in the wind like they used to. Great secondary action (slow and rolling rather than fast and turbulent like before )and a clean burn (no smoke out the chimney) even when burning dry pine that I used to think just naturally offgassed too quickly for this stove (any stove) to handle properly.

It was an awesome feeling, but weird...everything I had learned about running the Monty went out the window. I can't stress enough it felt like a completely different stove. Or like a new car, which made you realize the old car had bald tires and horrible spongy brakes, and suddenly you could stop the car without having to slam the brake pedal to the floor and in half the distance.

Of course I began to wonder what changed. Weather was warmer, it hit 40, and our usual moderate winds were non existent. I feared it was just these weather conditions. Heart sunk thinking as soon as it cooled down and winds picked up that I'd have an uncontrollable beast on my hands again.

On the next reload I did notice one other thing that was different.  The ashes we're higher than they'd ever been in the stove. It hit me then...I think the ashes are blocking the doghouse air. On the next reload i moved the ashes to open the doghouse back up and Bam, back to non lazy flames, excessive off gassing and crazy secondaries, even with air down.

I've now got magnets over the doghouse air holes on the bottom front of the unit and it is burning perfectly again. What a difference they make. I still let a tiny amount of air through the doghouse so the coals burn properly, but I think I have that air reduced about 90% and plan to keep it that way​


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 20, 2018)

Thanks for posting


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## frased (Dec 26, 2018)

Diabel said:


> There are so many factors to consider regarding burn times with any stove. Most VC members here consistently get 8 to 12 hours between reloads. So, yes you are doing something wrong.
> 
> As said before. Start with sealing the flue adaptor. Then do the dollar test again on all gaskets. Check the wood MC (very important). Once that is done, experiment with the stove during the day by closing the primary air more and more in increments and watch the behavior of the stove.



I hadn’t considered sealing the flue adapter until reading this. Are we talking about the oval to round adapter on top of the stoves flue collar?

My oval to round is the original VC porcelain enamel finished single wall piece.

Are the air gaps on the corners affecting my burns??


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## begreen (Dec 26, 2018)

Probably not, but if in doubt it won't hurt to finger trowel in some stove cement there.


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 26, 2018)

frased said:


> I hadn’t considered sealing the flue adapter until reading this. Are we talking about the oval to round adapter on top of the stoves flue collar?
> 
> My oval to round is the original VC porcelain enamel finished single wall piece.
> 
> Are the air gaps on the corners affecting my burns??


I did end up sealing mine up with some gasket just by stuffing a piece in each side but didn't notice any difference in the performance.  I was surprised at how much air gets sucked in around that area but I'm guessing that air just goes right up the chimney and doesn't necessarily add oxygen to the fire.  I was more hoping it'd increase my draft by reducing the amount of gasses going up the flue but no such luck...

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## frased (Dec 26, 2018)

When you guys do the “full load” are you putting the last piece in front of the damper just under the griddle? 

Reason I ask is I’m trying to make sure I’m loading enough. My burn times have increased but I want to hit 9 hours eventually. Hopefully. 

When the damper is closed CAT engaged I guess having that top piece at the very very top of the fire box wouldn’t matter?


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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

frased said:


> When you guys do the “full load” are you putting the last piece in front of the damper just under the griddle?
> 
> Reason I ask is I’m trying to make sure I’m loading enough. My burn times have increased but I want to hit 9 hours eventually. Hopefully.
> 
> When the damper is closed CAT engaged I guess having that top piece at the very very top of the fire box wouldn’t matter?


i generally got about 1" from the top griddle.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 26, 2018)

1" from the top, man that's a lot wood in there.  Is this what most folks with the 2040 are doing?  I just have this fear of all that wood gassing off at once or bursting into flame all at once and over firing the stove.  Maybe I just need to get past that and do it.   Kevin


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 26, 2018)

While I'm on this thread, is anyone here still using the cat probe that was provided with the Encore 2040?  Also has anyone determined if the factory cat probe is accurate?  When mine hits the active range I do see a difference in the smoke coming out of the chimney at that point so it seems right and no reason to replace it for a different one.  If I'm wrong no this please advise what probe would work better.  Hopefully if another one better fits the bill, it can be inserted as is with no modification to the back of the stove.  Thoughts/concerns.   Kevin


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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> While I'm on this thread, is anyone here still using the cat probe that was provided with the Encore 2040?  Also has anyone determined if the factory cat probe is accurate?  When mine hits the active range I do see a difference in the smoke coming out of the chimney at that point so it seems right and no reason to replace it for a different one.  If I'm wrong no this please advise what probe would work better.  Hopefully if another one better fits the bill, it can be inserted as is with no modification to the back of the stove.  Thoughts/concerns.   Kevin



when I got my AT100, I did some tests to see what the smoke looked like coming out of the chimney. It seemed that the factory probe was about the same as what the AT was reading (roughly 500º for cat engagement). 

The nice thing about the AT100 is not having to get up and look behind the stove, as well as having a quicker and more accurate reading, as well as alarms. knowing when i'm getting up to temp gives me a lot more control (hence the 1" from the top wood loading).


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## Gnanneb86 (Dec 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> While I'm on this thread, is anyone here still using the cat probe that was provided with the Encore 2040?  Also has anyone determined if the factory cat probe is accurate?  When mine hits the active range I do see a difference in the smoke coming out of the chimney at that point so it seems right and no reason to replace it for a different one.  If I'm wrong no this please advise what probe would work better.  Hopefully if another one better fits the bill, it can be inserted as is with no modification to the back of the stove.  Thoughts/concerns.   Kevin


I have the defiant 1975 but i assume it's the same probe.  Mine never had any issues it's just slow to respond.

I switched mine out for the Auber AT100 digital one which has worked great and is very reasonably priced.  I wouldn't say it's a necessity but I like having one that responds very quickly, shows exact temps, and records the highest temp hit.

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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> 1" from the top, man that's a lot wood in there.  Is this what most folks with the 2040 are doing?  I just have this fear of all that wood gassing off at once or bursting into flame all at once and over firing the stove.  Maybe I just need to get past that and do it.   Kevin



I will mention, that I also tend to have wood that is like a jenga puzzle, so I have a bit more air gaps in my stove than I would like, so I am less concerned. If i am optimizing space, then I will load about 3/4 of the way to the top.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> 1" from the top, man that's a lot wood in there.  Is this what most folks with the 2040 are doing?  I just have this fear of all that wood gassing off at once or bursting into flame all at once and over firing the stove.  Maybe I just need to get past that and do it.   Kevin



Im all the way to the top.. hoping not to jam up the damper door when closing.. got a 12 hr burn the other night. .. cat temp was 850  during the burn ..griddle temp just droped to 280 after 12 hrs


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## frased (Dec 26, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Im all the way to the top.. hoping not to jam up the damper door when closing.. got a 12 hr burn the other night. .. cat temp was 850  during the burn ..griddle temp just droped to 280 after 12 hrs


Is it me or doesn’t it seem ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle temp? I’ve tried that a couple times and my CAT has no problem hitting the desired 500 degree mark in no time. 

Am I doing anything wrong?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 26, 2018)

Dobish said:


> I will mention, that I also tend to have wood that is like a jenga puzzle, so I have a bit more air gaps in my stove than I would like, so I am less concerned. If i am optimizing space, then I will load about 3/4 of the way to the top.



I separat my wood when i bring it in the house.. I have 1 rack for overnigh and 1 rack for day time. When i bring my wood i put the really square stuff in the over night rack. When I load the stove for an overnight burn i put it all together and make one giant block of wood in the stove. My wood sits on a bed of coles. The only air that goes through the stove is between the glass and andirons and along the sides and into the cat.. vetty little to no air makes it through the middle of the block..


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Is it me or doesn’t it seem ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle temp? I’ve tried that a couple times and my CAT has no problem hitting the desired 500 degree mark in no time.
> 
> Am I doing anything wrong?



Im not sure what your asking


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## frased (Dec 26, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> Im not sure what your asking


Ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle instead of 500?


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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle instead of 500?


this is not a problem


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 26, 2018)

frased said:


> Ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle instead of 500?



450 is ok.. that being said it will take a little longer for the cat to light off.. not like 30 minutes difference but it will be a little slower . I engage mine at 450 and let it get up to temp.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 26, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> 1" from the top, man that's a lot wood in there.  Is this what most folks with the 2040 are doing?  I just have this fear of all that wood gassing off at once or bursting into flame all at once and over firing the stove.  Maybe I just need to get past that and do it.   Kevin


I load my 2550 like Dobish loads his. Sometimes I have to big of a split on top and can’t close the GT. I keep two stove loads next to the stove so I can find the right top piece.


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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I load my 2550 like Dobish loads his. Sometimes I have to big of a split on top and can’t close the GT. I keep two stove loads next to the stove so I can find the right top piece.


my current stack of wood that I brought in is roughly 1/2" longer than it should be, so I have to load up a little one first, then angle a big one diagonal, then work around it. Super annoying, but if I remember correctly, it was only 2 or 3 sections that were cut a little long. I'm hoping when i bring up the next few loads, they are just the right size. 

*note- this was all stuff that was cut a few years ago, before I was particular about the lengths of cuts. a lot of it was scrounged or dumped from tree services.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 26, 2018)

As far as choosing when to close damper, I use flue temps as my determining factor. Most of the time GT is about 400 when I close damper. I let the flue get up to 600(internal temp) before I close the damper. This usually promotes fast cat light off. I then start closing primary air around 700. I changed my alarm from 900 to 1525 because I’ve never been able to get both alarms to work, only one or the other.


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 26, 2018)

Dobish said:


> my current stack of wood that I brought in is roughly 1/2" longer than it should be, so I have to load up a little one first, then angle a big one diagonal, then work around it. Super annoying, but if I remember correctly, it was only 2 or 3 sections that were cut a little long. I'm hoping when i bring up the next few loads, they are just the right size.
> 
> *note- this was all stuff that was cut a few years ago, before I was particular about the lengths of cuts. a lot of it was scrounged or dumped from tree services.


I to didn’t care much about wood length until I started trying to fill every square inch of the firebox. I have had to throw a few splits in the yard because they just wouldn’t fit right in the stove. The other size that bothers me are the short ones that are to tall to stand vertically on the sides.


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## Dobish (Dec 26, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I to didn’t care much about wood length until I started trying to fill every square inch of the firebox. I have had to throw a few splits in the yard because they just wouldn’t fit right in the stove. The other size that bothers me are the short ones that are to tall to stand vertically on the sides.


yeah, i hear that. I need to get rid of this pine at some point, so i figure I may as well do it while it is not super cold. The stuff that I have been cutting lately is all pretty consistent. I do have a stack of super short pieces that fit N/S, those are pretty nice when the puzzle comes together.


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## Diabel (Dec 27, 2018)

frased said:


> Ok to engage CAT at 450 griddle instead of 500?



I have a griddle thermometer but seldom look at it. I run the stove by paying attention to the flue probe and the cat probe only. Even if the cat probe is at 250 but the flue around 375 I close the by pass. 

Oh and I stuff the firebox to the max. Try not to leave any gaps


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## frased (Dec 28, 2018)

Diabel said:


> I have a griddle thermometer but seldom look at it. I run the stove by paying attention to the flue probe and the cat probe only. Even if the cat probe is at 250 but the flue around 375 I close the by pass.
> 
> Oh and I stuff the firebox to the max. Try not to leave any gaps



I am going do that more. I did start closing my damper at griddle 450 now instead of the 500 and my CAT is up to 500 no problem in a couple minutes. And eventually stabilizes over 1000 somewhere.

I’ll focus on flue temp 375. Seems to get there sooner than griddle reaches 450 too.


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## frased (Dec 28, 2018)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I load my 2550 like Dobish loads his. Sometimes I have to big of a split on top and can’t close the GT. I keep two stove loads next to the stove so I can find the right top piece.


I stuffed my 2550 last night. Seemed to work great! After 8 hours I still had coals glowing. 

I will get better at stuffing it. There were some air gaps on the sides. That’s the hardest part when stuffing it for me.


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 28, 2018)

On the Encore with the factory supplied cat probe, when it reaches "active" zone (white area), in theory what would the degree reading be?  I'm thinking 500 based on information in the manual but not sure I'm right on this.  Kevin


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## Dobish (Dec 28, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> On the Encore with the factory supplied cat probe, when it reaches "active" zone (white area), in theory what would the degree reading be?  I'm thinking 500 based on information in the manual but not sure I'm right on this.  Kevin



yes, it is 500. the top is 1500
based on my tests, it is very similar to this one:


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 28, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> On the Encore with the factory supplied cat probe, when it reaches "active" zone (white area), in theory what would the degree reading be?  I'm thinking 500 based on information in the manual but not sure I'm right on this.  Kevin



I found the factory probe to be finicky over a couple years of use. It seemed to me that the cat would light off a little different some times. This may be due to the cat it's self eather with  the amount of use or needing a cleaning. Sometimes i thought it was the bi-metal probe showing wear. I feel after time it becomes less accurate. An actual digital probe takes out some of the variables in the equation. The digital meter will show you with in a minute exactly what the cat temperature is, unlike the factory probe where you have to wait 5 to 10 minutes. Here is something else. When i had the factory probe in sometime it would be in the white.. the active zone.. but I wasn't convinced my cat was actually running. Other times i could hear the cat light off and the probe want even in the white yet.. 5 minutes later it was.. most of the time my probe had to reach a certain letter  to kick off rather than just be in the white area.. its super hard to say for certain exactly where 500 is on each probe.. i would guess that each one would be a little different. .. and i would hope other people would chime in on this and give there thoughts ..


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## RandyBoBandy (Dec 28, 2018)

frased said:


> I stuffed my 2550 last night. Seemed to work great! After 8 hours I still had coals glowing.
> 
> I will get better at stuffing it. There were some air gaps on the sides. That’s the hardest part when stuffing it for me.


Glad things are coming around for you. In the future you will now know how long to cut your firewood


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## Dobish (Dec 28, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I found the factory probe to be finicky over a couple years of use. It seemed to me that the cat would light off a little different some times. This may be due to the cat it's self eather with  the amount of use or needing a cleaning. Sometimes i thought it was the bi-metal probe showing wear. I feel after time it becomes less accurate. An actual digital probe takes out some of the variables in the equation. The digital meter will show you with in a minute exactly what the cat temperature is, unlike the factory probe where you have to wait 5 to 10 minutes. Here is something else. When i had the factory probe in sometime it would be in the white.. the active zone.. but I wasn't convinced my cat was actually running. Other times i could hear the cat light off and the probe want even in the white yet.. 5 minutes later it was.. most of the time my probe had to reach a certain letter  to kick off rather than just be in the white area.. its super hard to say for certain exactly where 500 is on each probe.. i would guess that each one would be a little different. .. and i would hope other people would chime in on this and give there thoughts ..



agree 100%. The digitial is 1000x times faster. sometimes i like to watch it start rising and see if it will light off at 504º or 505º. You can tell when it lights off when the numbers start climbing.  I can also tell if it has too little air, or the wood is a little wet based upon where it stalls out....


----------



## Turfguy (Dec 28, 2018)

Seen a bunch of talk about temps on the stove. For those of us with inserts could we be more efficient and use temps to help us? I’m running a Montpelier


----------



## Kevin Weis (Dec 28, 2018)

Is there a digital out there that will take the place of the factory probe with no modification whatsoever?  In other words just pull it out of the hole in the back and insert the digital probe in its place.  No drilling, no nothing save for maybe attaching it to the back shield.  Kevin


----------



## Dobish (Dec 28, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Is there a digital out there that will take the place of the factory probe with no modification whatsoever?  In other words just pull it out of the hole in the back and insert the digital probe in its place.  No drilling, no nothing save for maybe attaching it to the back shield.  Kevin


Auber instruments  at100 6" high temp probe


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 29, 2018)

I dont rember any discussion on this. Cleaned the stove today. Vacuumed the cat. Noticed that some of the cells are getting cracked. 
I run my stove in cat alot. Id say 75 to 80% of the time.
Do you guys run your stoves that much with the damper closed
What is the life of your cat.. how often are you swapping it out.. 
Just looking for what you guys are doing with your stoves and the longevity of your cat
Has anyone had to change your gaskets in your 2040.. if so how long did it take for them to start to go
Who has the oldest 2040 that we know of mines not that old


----------



## Kevin Weis (Dec 29, 2018)

Mine is always going through the cat except for start ups and sometimes the in the shoulder for just a quick warm up in the evening then let it go out.  Haven't check my cat lately but it's only a year old.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 29, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Mine is always going through the cat except for start ups and sometimes the in the shoulder for just a quick warm up in the evening then let it go out.  Haven't check my cat lately but it's only a year old.


How old is your stove kev.. are you a 2040


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## Kevin Weis (Dec 30, 2018)

My stove is a 17' model and is a Encore 2040.  I believe it was siting around the stove shop for almost a year before it was sold to me. I believe the porcelain back is flawed as the cat cover fits too loosely and has to be held in place by a piece of gasket rope to keep from falling into the stove.  My only problem with it.  Kevin


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## Diabel (Dec 30, 2018)

Strange that the 2040 would need a gasket, where all previous models did not.

Also, strange that  the 2040 cat is 1/2 the size from the other VC cats, and yet it is to perform the same....


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Dec 31, 2018)

I believe cats are rated in hours. So one guy might get 3 seasons out of where the next only gets 1. Depending on the weather I typically burn from October to May and get 2 seasons out of a cat.


----------



## Dobish (Dec 31, 2018)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> I dont rember any discussion on this. Cleaned the stove today. Vacuumed the cat. Noticed that some of the cells are getting cracked.
> I run my stove in cat alot. Id say 75 to 80% of the time.
> Do you guys run your stoves that much with the damper closed
> What is the life of your cat.. how often are you swapping it out..
> ...



my 2040 is a late 2013 model (purchased in 2015). I had to replace the cat in 2016. VC has a limited warranty on their cats, depending on how many years it is.
Attached is the picture that I posted a long time ago, you can see that the cat is missing a few pieces.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Dec 31, 2018)

That doesn't look too bad to me.  Supposedly a few missing sections aren't that critical to the operation of it according to the manual.


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## Dobish (Dec 31, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> That doesn't look too bad to me.  Supposedly a few missing sections aren't that critical to the operation of it according to the manual.


nope, but it was under warranty, and it was replaced for free.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Dec 31, 2018)

Good they honored that.  I'll probably look at mine the end of next month to see how its doing when the chimney gets swept.


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## Dobish (Dec 31, 2018)

Kevin Weis said:


> Good they honored that.  I'll probably look at mine the end of next month to see how its doing when the chimney gets swept.


Limited Catalyst Warranty
The catalyst will be warranted for a six year period as follows: If the original catalyst or a replacement catalyst proves defective or ceases to maintain 70% of its particulate emission reduction activity (as measured by an approved testing procedure) within 24 months from the date the stove is received, the catalyst itself will be replaced free.
From 25 - 72 months a pro-rated credit will be allowed against a replacement catalyst and the cost of labor necessary for its installation at the time of replacement.
A third year (25 - 36 months) of no charge replacement will be made when combustor failure is due to thermal degradation of the substrate (crumbling of ceramic material). The customer must pay for any in-home travel fees, service charges, or transportation costs for returning the stove to the Authorized Dealer.
Amount of Time Credit Towards
Since Purchase Replacement Cost
0 - 24 months 100%
25 - 36 months 50%
37 - 48 months 30%
49 - 60 months 20%
61 - 72 months 10%
Any replacement catalyst will be warranted under the terms of the catalyst warranty for the remaining term of the original warranty. The purchaser must provide the following information in order to receive a replacement catalyst under the terms of this limited warranty:
1. Name, address and telephone number.
2. Proof of original purchase date.
3. Date of failure of catalyst.
4. Any relevant information or circumstances regarding determination of failure.
5. In addition, the owner must return the failed catalyst.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Dec 31, 2018)

I burn from october to April .. im getting like 1.5 years out of mine. I fined after some time its not lighting off like it should or burning off the gasses like it should.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 2, 2019)

So, during normal operation through the cat should there be flames present all the time till it coals on my Encore 2040.    It seems when flames die out way before the coaling,  it off gasses too much leading to puff backing.  When I open primary to start flames back up no puff backing and I can see secondaries light off at the top prior to the cat.  Should it be this way?  Should the primary by closed down enough so the gasses can't ignite prior to going through the cat?  If it off gasses like this is it an indication wood is too small still?


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 3, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> So, during normal operation through the cat should there be flames present all the time till it coals on my Encore 2040.    It seems when flames die out way before the coaling,  it off gasses too much leading to puff backing.  When I open primary to start flames back up no puff backing and I can see secondaries light off at the top prior to the cat.  Should it be this way?  Should the primary by closed down enough so the gasses can't ignite prior to going through the cat?  If it off gasses like this is it an indication wood is too small still?


Pm sent


----------



## frased (Jan 4, 2019)

I feel like with certain fuels/wood I close down all air and it still has “some” flames. Soft maple gasser. 

But with greener oak I can get it to cook on coals with a little flame in the back by the CAT. Great for overnight burns. 

I’m assuming this is all normal. That it’s not all just air control but 50% of the science is fuel type? 

My only issue with this is it makes the entire process slightly more stressful than a non CAT stove. But definitely more efficient. So I’m good with that.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 4, 2019)

frased said:


> I feel like with certain fuels/wood I close down all air and it still has “some” flames. Soft maple gasser.
> 
> But with greener oak I can get it to cook on coals with a little flame in the back by the CAT. Great for overnight burns.
> 
> ...



Looks like you are getting the process figured out.


----------



## Dobish (Jan 4, 2019)

frased said:


> I feel like with certain fuels/wood I close down all air and it still has “some” flames. Soft maple gasser.
> 
> But with greener oak I can get it to cook on coals with a little flame in the back by the CAT. Great for overnight burns.
> 
> ...



after a while you figure out what a good mix is, and what temps should be when. I have to readjust when I switch wood types, so things have been a little off since i've been burning pine this year season. Every so often I will throw a piece of elm or locust in there to extend the burn times


----------



## Diabel (Jan 4, 2019)

Dobish said:


> after a while you figure out what a good mix is, and what temps should be when. I have to readjust when I switch wood types, so things have been a little off since i've been burning pine this year season. Every so often I will throw a piece of elm or locust in there to extend the burn times



For sure you have to readjust your burning process based on wood type. But it is fun!


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 4, 2019)

I like the mention of being a science with the type of wood burned.  The funny thing is in the 2040 owners manual (and I suspect others) VC mentions the operation is "more of an art than a science".  Really?  It's all science to me.  Just saying.


----------



## kennyp2339 (Jan 4, 2019)

Don't know how much credibility but check out this video


----------



## frased (Jan 4, 2019)

kennyp2339 said:


> Don't know how much credibility but check out this video




He seemed hell bent on never going over 1400 on the CAT. My alarm is set to 1800. I’d go nuts if I tried to stay under 1400 every burn.


----------



## CTwith3 (Jan 5, 2019)

I’m still trying to figure out the air leak from the bottom of my right door.
Which way do the door hinge pins go in? It looks like the fatter end is what the bottom of the door turns on, and the top pin has a space for the larger end of the pin inside the door so that you have the skinny end of the door pin at the top unlike the fatter end at the bottom. Is this correct?


----------



## kennyp2339 (Jan 5, 2019)

frased said:


> He seemed hell bent on never going over 1400 on the CAT. My alarm is set to 1800. I’d go nuts if I tried to stay under 1400 every burn.


I agree but he had issues with the secondary system over firing and damaging both cats and refractory, when consulting with VC they recommended burning lower with the primary air or loading less, he also stated opening the baffle to remove the high heat. 
The reason I posted this video was not to take a swipe at any brand, its to inform the users that the main co falls back on nit picking warrantee items, in his case it was not having someone certified to install or preform maintenance on the units.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 5, 2019)

Still wondering after looking at the video the cause?


----------



## Diabel (Jan 5, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Still wondering after looking at the video the cause?



Wet wood. User errors. And very fragile stove inner parts.


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## frased (Jan 6, 2019)

Looks like I will have to re-gasket my doors.

The bottom length was coming off on its own with factory cement.

I made the mistake of repairing with too much cement. Now the gasket is like rock. Oh well.

Guess I should do both doors.

My guess is if factory cement didn’t hold there it’s probably going to continue in other areas.

I have the kit. You guys mentioned dremel is great for removing old cement.

Can you guys tell me if I have these right? From the kit... the lengths do not match the “materials included” lengths...


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 6, 2019)

It looks right. From the pic at least. The piece just next to your glass rope is the ash pan door I’m presuming.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 6, 2019)

Take the doors off it’s easier that way. Plus do the glass while you are at it. Dremel with the kind of cone shaped grinding stone is what I use. Than wipe down the channels with a little mineral spirits to clean all the dust out. If you are using the Rutland gasket cement in a tube than kneed it really good. If you don’t it comes out in different consistencys making it difficult to achieve a uniform bead. I also dampen the rope slightly being careful not to stretch the rope out. Don’t twist the rope either. If I’m correct the Rutland cement says you can start a fire after two hours. Good luck.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 6, 2019)

My griddle gasket is telling me it is retiring. I will be cleaning the pipe next week, might as well replace the gasket.


----------



## CTwith3 (Jan 6, 2019)

Anyone? Can someone check their door hinge pins for me when their stove isn’t too hot?


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## Diabel (Jan 6, 2019)

CTwith3 said:


> Anyone? Can someone check their door hinge pin?



I missed the original question


----------



## CTwith3 (Jan 6, 2019)

CTwith3 said:


> I’m still trying to figure out the air leak from the bottom of my right door.
> Which way do the door hinge pins go in? It looks like the fatter end is what the bottom of the door turns on, and the top pin has a space for the larger end of the pin inside the door so that you have the skinny end of the door pin at the top unlike the fatter end at the bottom. Is this correct?


----------



## CTwith3 (Jan 7, 2019)

frased said:


> Looks like I will have to re-gasket my doors.
> 
> The bottom length was coming off on its own with factory cement.
> 
> ...


Please post a pic of which way the hinge pins come out of the doors for me,


----------



## Diabel (Jan 7, 2019)

Not sure about the 2040 but all the previous models, the pin is fixed to the bottom of the door. You lift the door up to remove it. Do it gently so you don’t bend or break the pin. Not sure if this answers your question.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 7, 2019)

The 2040 the pins are separate and are held in place by a plate and two screws I believe.  I had to adjust mine to make the door latch proper when I got it.


----------



## jimmol (Jan 7, 2019)

I could not find this thread earlier but am reposting here since more of you know VC stoves.

This year I rebuilt my Winterwarm small for the second time replacing the fireback, damper housing, throat hood and Refractory Assembly. Added 3/8" new gasket from a kit to the same pieces. I did tighten, using a socket, as much as I could. 
There is a gap between my Refractory and the damper housing about a key width wide. 

Is this normal? 

Has anyone ever looked to see if there was a gap? (I did not look last time.)

This first picture is looking down from where the pipe goes out of the top. The other two pictures of the sides seem to show the gasket has good contact. 

Looking at the sides pictures - the one where the damper housing is going to the right is the right side, one going to the left the left side - does it look at though the damper housing is lining up correctly with the stove? 
Or does it appear to be down a bit?

If this is not right, any ideas on how to correct it would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Jim Mol


----------



## Dobish (Jan 8, 2019)

CTwith3 said:


> Please post a pic of which way the hinge pins come out of the doors for me,


I had a heck of a time getting my door adjusted properly. Pins should go like this if I remember correctly (#72)


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 8, 2019)

Does anyone know what the thermocoupler probe diameter is for the Auber AT100?  The VC probe has a diameter of 3/16.  Just wondering if its the same or not.  Guess I can find that spec on they're website?  Also can someone say what model probe should be used to match the thermometer.  Going to try to get this done by February when its been scheduled for a sweep.


----------



## Dobish (Jan 8, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Does anyone know what the thermocoupler probe diameter is for the Auber AT100?  The VC probe has a diameter of 3/16.  Just wondering if its the same or not.  Guess I can find that spec on they're website?  Also can someone say what model probe should be used to match the thermometer.  Going to try to get this done by February when its been scheduled for a sweep.



K type high temperature thermocouple for heat treatment*** 
4MM OD
Probe Length Option: 6 (150 mm) 
Connector Option: Spade connector Pr 
Item# WRNK-191


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 8, 2019)

Dobish, thanks!


----------



## Dobish (Jan 8, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Dobish, thanks!


no problem. I had ordered the mini connector but then had to completely take it apart and rewire it anyway. Spade connector will be much easier to remove the ends of!


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 8, 2019)

Not to complicate things but Condar makes a cat thermometer I've seen on ebay but its probe is 1/4" and would mean drilling existing hole a little bigger which isn't all that big a deal I guess but also mentions that it reads out only in 50 degree increments I believe, but that may be only in the low range, not sure.  Thoughts?  Anybody have/use any of these?


----------



## Dobish (Jan 8, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Not to complicate things but Condar makes a cat thermometer I've seen on ebay but its probe is 1/4" and would mean drilling existing hole a little bigger which isn't all that big a deal I guess but also mentions that it reads out only in 50 degree increments I believe, but that may be only in the low range, not sure.  Thoughts?  Anybody have/use any of these?


you won't be upset with the auber. the ability to have the alarms and fine tune the calibration are well worth it.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 8, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Not to complicate things but Condar makes a cat thermometer I've seen on ebay but its probe is 1/4" and would mean drilling existing hole a little bigger which isn't all that big a deal I guess but also mentions that it reads out only in 50 degree increments I believe, but that may be only in the low range, not sure.  Thoughts?  Anybody have/use any of these?




What Dobish said I will second.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 8, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Not to complicate things but Condar makes a cat thermometer I've seen on ebay but its probe is 1/4" and would mean drilling existing hole a little bigger which isn't all that big a deal I guess but also mentions that it reads out only in 50 degree increments I believe, but that may be only in the low range, not sure.  Thoughts?  Anybody have/use any of these?



Im not into brand bashing so I'm not going to say what other thermocouple  I was using. Go with the AT100..
2xs what Dobish said ...


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 9, 2019)

jimmol said:


> I could not find this thread earlier but am reposting here since more of you know VC stoves.
> 
> This year I rebuilt my Winterwarm small for the second time replacing the fireback, damper housing, throat hood and Refractory Assembly. Added 3/8" new gasket from a kit to the same pieces. I did tighten, using a socket, as much as I could.
> There is a gap between my Refractory and the damper housing about a key width wide.
> ...


You are probably the only winterwarm guy here   Everyone in here is mainly running a defiant or encore. @defiant3 , @begreen , or@bhollar would be the 3 that I can think of that can help you.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 9, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Not to complicate things but Condar makes a cat thermometer I've seen on ebay but its probe is 1/4" and would mean drilling existing hole a little bigger which isn't all that big a deal I guess but also mentions that it reads out only in 50 degree increments I believe, but that may be only in the low range, not sure.  Thoughts?  Anybody have/use any of these?


Auber AT100 all the way. I have had the condar. There is a reason I switched. I am still using the condar probe though. It’s shorter and I already owned it so no reason to buy the Auber probe.


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 9, 2019)

I'll ordering the Auber AT100 and the WRNK-191 probe this weekend hopefully.  Chimney gets swept on Feb. 1st and will be installed then (if it arrives by then).  Thanks to all who gave guidance to me on this.


----------



## frased (Jan 9, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> I'll ordering the Auber AT100 and the WRNK-191 probe this weekend hopefully.  Chimney gets swept on Feb. 1st and will be installed then (if it arrives by then).  Thanks to all who gave guidance to me on this.


I ordered the version that has 2 displays... it’s awesome have 1 in the bedroom for at night.


----------



## frased (Jan 9, 2019)

Dobish said:


> I had a heck of a time getting my door adjusted properly. Pins should go like this if I remember correctly (#72)
> View attachment 237712



Good thing I’m doing my door gaskets. They literally peeled off with minimal effort! The original cement had just broken down from age. And the gaskets had permanently formed from sitting.

New gaskets and cement will be so much better. 

Door alignment I can tell is going to be painful though.


----------



## Dobish (Jan 9, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> I'll ordering the Auber AT100 and the WRNK-191 probe this weekend hopefully.  Chimney gets swept on Feb. 1st and will be installed then (if it arrives by then).  Thanks to all who gave guidance to me on this.



You can have it installed about 20 minutes after it arrives. A few notes about this, it is calibrated for celsius, so when you switch to Fahrenheit, you will have to adjust the # offset of degrees for calibration. I used boiling water and ice water to test my calibration, but since it is mainly for high temps, calibrated to the boiling water.

Finding out how to get to the calibration menu was the hardest part.  

Set, 0089, set.
Then use arrows to find c-f for celsius or Fahrenheit, then arrows to find PSb

(from their manual)


----------



## Kevin Weis (Jan 9, 2019)

Thanks!  Good to see that.  Not that electronic savy.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 9, 2019)

frased said:


> I ordered the version that has 2 displays... it’s awesome have 1 in the bedroom for at night.


Is that the At200?  It would be sweet if there was a model that tracked 2 temps. One probe for the cat and one for the flue.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 9, 2019)

Dobish said:


> You can have it installed about 20 minutes after it arrives. A few notes about this, it is calibrated for celsius, so when you switch to Fahrenheit, you will have to adjust the # offset of degrees for calibration. I used boiling water and ice water to test my calibration, but since it is mainly for high temps, calibrated to the boiling water.
> 
> Finding out how to get to the calibration menu was the hardest part.
> 
> ...


Did you find that it was off by very much?  I took mine out of the box and plugged it in. Never messed with the calibration.


----------



## frased (Jan 9, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is that the At200?  It would be sweet if there was a model that tracked 2 temps. One probe for the cat and one for the flue.


It’s a secondary to the master... basically they are identical units. Only difference is one has the probe connection.

The secondary one syncs wirelessly to parent.

 What’s cool is you can do settings from either one and also both have alarms.

It’s the AT210-T


----------



## Diabel (Jan 9, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Did you find that it was off by very much?  I took mine out of the box and plugged it in. Never messed with the calibration.



Same here. I just switched from C to F. When the stove is cold the meter reads 70 and the thermometer in the same room reads 70
I think it is all good.


----------



## jimmol (Jan 10, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You are probably the only winterwarm guy here   Everyone in here is mainly running a defiant or encore. @defiant3 , @begreen , or@bhollar would be the 3 that I can think of that can help you.



Thanks for the clarification and the possible contacts. 

At worst, I would loose some efficiency if some of the flame made it through the space and up to the chimney instead of the cat. 

Thanks again.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 10, 2019)

jimmol said:


> Thanks for the clarification and the possible contacts.
> 
> At worst, I would loose some efficiency if some of the flame made it through the space and up to the chimney instead of the cat.
> 
> Thanks again.


Sorry I can’t be of more help.


----------



## Diabel (Jan 10, 2019)

jimmol said:


> Thanks for the clarification and the possible contacts.
> 
> At worst, I would loose some efficiency if some of the flame made it through the space and up to the chimney instead of the cat.
> 
> Thanks again.



I would post that question right in the hearth room forum. Hopefully, one of the experts will give you some insight.


----------



## jimmol (Jan 11, 2019)

I did in the Main Hearth Forums, The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces, before I found this thread. 
We dinosaur WinterWarm Small users are a dying breed. Over the past 16 years or so I have spent about $1500.00 on two rebuilds and a new liner. The year we got it, our heat bill dropped $600. A few year later it was paid for itself. It was a bit small for heating our house, but our fireplace was small so the Large model would not fit. 
It did help family time since the bedrooms were cool, the kids would sit in the living room to study and pass the time. After a furnace upgrade, the savings when down so replacing the unit was not economical. It is still nice to warm the main floor in the evening and morning and even keep the furnace use to a minimum during the day. 
A sincere thanks for your replies and guidance.


----------



## frased (Jan 11, 2019)

My only issue with the new door gaskets is where the 2 ends meet at the bottom on the one door.  

Tried my best to trim them from unraveling. I’m not 100% confident they won’t. 

I used a torch to give a quick melt at the ends to help.


----------



## Dobish (Jan 11, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Same here. I just switched from C to F. When the stove is cold the meter reads 70 and the thermometer in the same room reads 70
> I think it is all good.



mine was way off. Mine read 0º at Celsius, and when I switched it to F it read something really odd like 43º


----------



## Diabel (Jan 11, 2019)

Dobish said:


> mine was way off. Mine read 0º at Celsius, and when I switched it to F it read something really odd like 43º



Wow
Good thing you noticed right away.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 11, 2019)

Mine is within a couple degrees of the thermostat (cold stove obviously) so I’m good with that.


----------



## Gnanneb86 (Jan 13, 2019)

Just curious.

What's the average temp you all hit on low burn overnight for the catalyst? For those people with a digital cat probe anyway.

I seem to hit 1500 to 1600 every night which seems high but maybe not.  

Small loads during the day never get that high, only when the stove is stuffed. Also, something that was interesting I ran the stove without the catalyst a few times and still hit the same temps.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Just curious.
> 
> What's the average temp you all hit on low burn overnight for the catalyst? For those people with a digital cat probe anyway.
> 
> ...


Are you turning your primary air down enough?  I can hit those temps if I turn my primary down enough to kill the flames in the box but not enough to slow the off gassing if that makes any sense.


----------



## frased (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Just curious.
> 
> What's the average temp you all hit on low burn overnight for the catalyst? For those people with a digital cat probe anyway.
> 
> ...



Mine does the same thing... usually calms down after a bit and settles around 1400. But like you I always spike up to 1500-1600. 

My alarm is set for 1800. And has never gone off during overnight sleep. But I do get spikes overnight too.


----------



## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you turning your primary air down enough?  I can hit those temps if I turn my primary down enough to kill the flames in the box but not enough to slow the off gassing if that makes any sense.


Doesn't seem to matter where the air is set.  Even all the way closed I get those temps, always have flames in the box no matter what.  I actually think I get higher temps the more I close the air once it's going well, almost seems as though running the stove hotter burns more smoke before it gets to the catalyst.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

frased said:


> Mine does the same thing... usually calms down after a bit and settles around 1400. But like you I always spike up to 1500-1600.
> 
> My alarm is set for 1800. And has never gone off during overnight sleep. But I do get spikes overnight too.


Thanks.

Maybe I don't need to worry.  

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Also, something that was interesting I ran the stove without the catalyst a few times and still hit the same temps.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



This does not make sense.


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> This does not make sense.


That's what I thought and was curious if anyone else had experienced that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Jan 14, 2019)

You are running a flex burn correct. 

Once you remove the cat, you are running the stove as a non cat downdraft unit with secondary comubstion occurring in the refractory box. I would keep the cat in the box.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 14, 2019)

Always wondered what the point would be to run it without the cat in place?  If it made a difference in the draft otherwise maybe.


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## Dobish (Jan 14, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Always wondered what the point would be to run it without the cat in place?  If it made a difference in the draft otherwise maybe.


i could see if you were going to be wood that was really sub par, and you didn't want to trash your cat.


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> You are running a flex burn correct.
> 
> Once you remove the cat, you are running the stove as a non cat downdraft unit with secondary comubstion occurring in the refractory box. I would keep the cat in the box.


Yes, model 1975 defiant flexburn.

I do keep the cat in, it was more just experimenting with the stove.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Doesn't seem to matter where the air is set.  Even all the way closed I get those temps, always have flames in the box no matter what.  I actually think I get higher temps the more I close the air once it's going well, almost seems as though running the stove hotter burns more smoke before it gets to the catalyst.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Whatstove are you running? Generally yes, lowering primary air will raise cat temps. Have you checked  your gaskets?  With your primary closed I don’t think you should be seeing any primary fire. How tall is your flue?


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2019)

frased said:


> Mine does the same thing... usually calms down after a bit and settles around 1400. But like you I always spike up to 1500-1600.
> 
> My alarm is set for 1800. And has never gone off during overnight sleep. But I do get spikes overnight too.


If it were me I would lower my alarm to 1550 or 1600. At 1800 you have already let your stove enter the danger zone for cats.


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Whatstove are you running? Generally yes, lowering primary air will raise cat temps. Have you checked  your gaskets?  With your primary closed I don’t think you should be seeing any primary fire. How tall is your flue?


Defiant flexburn model 1975, purchased new in 2016

Gaskets are all good using a dollar bill, but none have been replaced since new.

Really? No flame at all? If I don't have flame it usually means it's stalling and temps start getting too low all around.

Flue is about 17' above stove top, it is a little low using the 10' away 2' above rule, it's about the same height as the roof 10 ft away but tech looked and said it seemed to have okay draft and not to worry about the height.  It's also a large oval insulated liner installed inside 8x12 tile that would be very difficult to extend at all.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 14, 2019)

I


Gnanneb86 said:


> Defiant flexburn model 1975, purchased new in 2016
> 
> Gaskets are all good using a dollar bill, but none have been replaced since new.
> 
> ...


is the liner insulated?


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I
> 
> is the liner insulated?


Yes, insulated with a vermiculite substance packed around the liner between it and the tile.

I also don't get the best burn times even though the wood is at 18 percent, maybe 8 hrs or so.  And if I'm home during the day I just run half loads because the stove is so much happier with less wood it seems.

Recently I was having trouble with back puffing and finally had the tech come out and look, he seemed to think I just wasn't getting the stove hot enough before closing the damper.  Now getting the fire hotter has mitigated the back puffing but cat sounds like it's out of control on a full load of wood.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Diabel (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Yes, insulated with a vermiculite substance packed around the liner between it and the tile.
> 
> I also don't get the best burn times even though the wood is at 18 percent, maybe 8 hrs or so.  And if I'm home during the day I just run half loads because the stove is so much happier with less wood it seems.
> 
> ...



How are you testing your wood moisture?


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> How are you testing your wood moisture?


Harbor freight moisture meter, and the tech that was there tested with his higher end meter as well. We split 3 different pieces while he was there, harbor freight was reading 2 to 3 percent dryer than his...

It was a tech from a different dealer that does not offer Vermont Castings and knew nothing about the stove either, they sell quadra fire and osburn mostly.  The dealer that installed the stove is actually a local ace hardware store.  We started getting frustrated with the defiant and looking at a new stove.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## frased (Jan 14, 2019)

Diabel said:


> This does not make sense.





RandyBoBandy said:


> If it were me I would lower my alarm to 1550 or 1600. At 1800 you have already let your stove enter the danger zone for cats.



I actually got the 1800 alarm idea from this forum. 

If I set it to 1600 I’d be alarming every day unfortunately. During the spikes.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm thinking your primary air damper is out of adjustment.  May have come from the factory that way.  My Encore primary air would not close all the way when I got it.  Had about 3/16" gap still when the lever was closed all the way.  Manual says when lever is in closed position the primary air flap should be closed all the way (flap resting against it's frame).  So I adjusted it and I have no flames in the closed position.  Maybe it is or is not your problem, just saying.  What is sort of contradictory here is that in another part of the manual it says/eludes to an EPA required minimal closed position.  So the question is I guess, which is it?


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

frased said:


> I actually got the 1800 alarm idea from this forum.
> 
> If I set it to 1600 I’d be alarming every day unfortunately. During the spikes.


Also my thought has always been...the alarm goes off because it's at 1800 but then what?  Do you open the damper with the stove cruising at 650 to cool the cat? With a full load of wood I feel like that situation could get out of control easy.

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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> I'm thinking your primary air damper is out of adjustment.  May have come from the factory that way.  My Encore primary air would not close all the way when I got it.  Had about 3/16" gap still when the lever was closed all the way.  Manual says when lever is in closed position the primary air flap should be closed all the way (flap resting against it's frame).  So I adjusted it and I have no flames in the closed position.  Maybe it is or is not your problem, just saying.  What is sort of contradictory here is that in another part of the manual it says/eludes to an EPA required minimal closed position.  So the question is I guess, which is it?


Should it be closed all the way when hot or cold?  

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## Kevin Weis (Jan 14, 2019)

I adjusted mine at room temperature .  My understanding is you should just hear it close (clank) when its moved to the fully closed position.  I'm assuming that the thermostat would interfere with the adjustment if the stove were "active".  But you know what happens when you assume. something.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 14, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Should it be closed all the way when hot or cold?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Should add I don't think it makes much of a difference adjusting it hot or cold but others here are more well versed in this than I and can comment.


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 14, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Should add I don't think it makes much of a difference adjusting it hot or cold but others here are more well versed in this than I and can comment.


Yeah I was just thinking if anything the thermostat would shut it further once closed all the way correct?  I just looked tonight while it was warm and there is maybe 1/8 inch or so when all the way closed.

The stove runs great when hot and when air is open.  But it's a night mare to get a slow long burn.

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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

Well, I'm seriously considering being done with my Encore.  This stove is just too finicky to get it to run right with no back puffing.  Tonite right after chimney was cleaned today had a small load of moderate size oak splits burning half throttle with the cat engaged then flames die down for some reason, then no flames, then puff.  I think the draft should have been well sufficient through the cat that this should not occur. I just don't get it.  I think the down draft design to the cat promotes this unless you have a way above average draft.  So with this said I may consider the Intrepid for my needs or a small/medium size Jotul.  The stove is in an 11' X 13' room with an open doorway (3 X 7) into the older part of the farmhouse.  I need a strange animal, a stove that won't overheat a room to run well and for the fire to last about 6 hours.  Is there such a thin?  Going to the stove dealer to figure it out tomorrow.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Well, I'm seriously considering being done with my Encore.  This stove is just too finicky to get it to run right with no back puffing.  Tonite right after chimney was cleaned today had a small load of moderate size oak splits burning half throttle with the cat engaged then flames die down for some reason, then no flames, then puff.  I think the draft should have been well sufficient through the cat that this should not occur. I just don't get it.  I think the down draft design to the cat promotes this unless you have a way above average draft.  So with this said I may consider the Intrepid for my needs or a small/medium size Jotul.  The stove is in an 11' X 13' room with an open doorway (3 X 7) into the older part of the farmhouse.  I need a strange animal, a stove that won't overheat a room to run well and for the fire to last about 6 hours.  Is there such a thin?  Going to the stove dealer to figure it out tomorrow.



Are you reducing primary air in increments?

Many here found out that is you reduce the primary air too quickly the VCs will puff. 

9 out of 10 puffing is caused by user error.


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## frased (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> I'm thinking your primary air damper is out of adjustment.  May have come from the factory that way.  My Encore primary air would not close all the way when I got it.  Had about 3/16" gap still when the lever was closed all the way.  Manual says when lever is in closed position the primary air flap should be closed all the way (flap resting against it's frame).  So I adjusted it and I have no flames in the closed position.  Maybe it is or is not your problem, just saying.  What is sort of contradictory here is that in another part of the manual it says/eludes to an EPA required minimal closed position.  So the question is I guess, which is it?



I’m going to adjust mine. Sometimes I feel like that “clank” isn’t present unless I move the air control in a fast motion. 

Any tips on adjustment? Looks easy enough anyway.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

If it clanks when you turn the lever quickly then it's closing.  Should have added quickly above.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Are you reducing primary air in increments?
> 
> Many here found out that is you reduce the primary air too quickly the VCs will puff.
> 
> 9 out of 10 puffing is caused by user error.



I do open full to about half way.  Should be smaller increments than that?


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> I do open full to about half way.  Should be smaller increments than that?



If you find that your can completely snuff out the flame with primary air closed at 50% (lever pointing directly down), then from 0 to 50 I would try say three increments (play around with it). Do not go past 50% since you already know it will puff. Does that make sense?


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## Dobish (Jan 16, 2019)

i normally go a quarter at a time, and that seems to help.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

Okay I got the Auber AT100 with the WRNK-191 probe.  The thermometer came with the three pin connector and the probe has the spade connector.  The two don't seem to connect directly easily so the question is what two wires on the probe (red & yellow) connect to what connections on the pin connecter?  Can some post a picture of the connection?  Did I order the wrong connector accessory?  Thanks.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

Never mind I found instructions on they're web page.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Okay I got the Auber AT100 with the WRNK-191 probe.  The thermometer came with the three pin connector and the probe has the spade connector.  The two don't seem to connect directly easily so the question is what two wires on the probe (red & yellow) connect to what connections on the pin connecter?  Can some post a picture of the connection?  Did I order the wrong connector accessory?  Thanks.


I believe you are suppose to cut the spade off and wire the green connector on. The website has the instructions for this. My probe is from condar so I don’t believe the colors match up.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Never mind I found instructions on they're web page.


We must have been typing at the same time. As far back puffs. I use to experience this when I first got my stove. It just takes some time to figure it out. It’s very rare I have them anymore. Good wood, good draft and experience will remedy this. Like diabel was saying, smaller increments and know the lowest setting you can use before snuffing the fire. When my chimney was short and 8” I could not close the primary all the way either. I can now with a taller 6 inch.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2019)

frased said:


> I’m going to adjust mine. Sometimes I feel like that “clank” isn’t present unless I move the air control in a fast motion.
> 
> Any tips on adjustment? Looks easy enough anyway.


Do this with a cold stove. Close the primary lever all the way. Loosen hex bolt on flapper. Adjust flapper until touches the frame. Tighten bolt. Start fire.


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 16, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Do this with a cold stove. Close the primary lever all the way. Loosen hex bolt on flapper. Adjust flapper until touches the frame. Tighten bolt. Start fire.


It's funny they put a section in the manual about adjusting it...yet they still leave the reader confused about where exactly to adjust it to.  When I first had my stove installed it didn't run at all...wasn't till weeks later we discovered it was way out of adjustment from the factory, and this was before they had it in the manual at all, it just said not to ever adjust it.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## LMGCT (Jan 16, 2019)

Mich woodcutter said:


> I dont remember I believe 1910....
> I have the Defiant Flexburn now
> As long as I keep the pipe temp about 600 to 650 it heats pretty well but still not as strong as my older one.
> Im running it without the cat


I'm new to this site and wood burning stoves....if you're running without the cat is the damper open at all times?


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 16, 2019)

LMGCT said:


> I'm new to this site and wood burning stoves....if you're running without the cat is the damper open at all times?



When your running the stove with the damper open your not engaging the cat. You can only engage by closing the damper.


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

Also, I would not recommend running any VC stoves with the bypass open for too long! Parts are expensive!!


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

So visited the stove dealer today (sells VC and Jotul).  He's been doing this 45 years.  Say's as far as the back puffing is concerned, primary needs to be throttled down in small increments some time apart.  Says this is my problem entirely.  Also bigger splits wouldn't hurt either.  Don't understand the science behind that but seems to be working so far.  Also getting the cat hotter.  So here's the downside sort of.  Think the Encore is still too big for the room it's in and over heats it too easily.  To compensate I only put about two logs in at a time.  As such the burn time would not be any different then the Intriped.  The Intrepid was upgraded in 18' to include a bottom ash drawer like the Encore.  Also added fire brick to sides and made it a flexburn like the Encore (2 in 1) increasing the burn time to 8 hours. I'm going to sleep on this for a few weeks to see if I want to make the switch or not.  Another thing the Intrepid, a smaller stove will draft better with the six inch flue.  What to do.  In the meantime will install the Auber AT 100 next cool down.


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## LMGCT (Jan 16, 2019)

Woodsplitter67 said:


> When your running the stove with the damper open your not engaging the cat. You can only engage by closing the damper.


That's what I was thinking.  Thank you!


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> So visited the stove dealer today (sells VC and Jotul).  He's been doing this 45 years.  Say's as far as the back puffing is concerned, primary needs to be throttled down in small increments some time apart.  Says this is my problem entirely.  Also bigger splits wouldn't hurt either.  Don't understand the science behind that but seems to be working so far.  Also getting the cat hotter.  So here's the downside sort of.  Think the Encore is still too big for the room it's in and over heats it too easily.  To compensate I only put about two logs in at a time.  As such the burn time would not be any different then the Intriped.  The Intrepid was upgraded in 18' to include a bottom ash drawer like the Encore.  Also added fire brick to sides and made it a flexburn like the Encore (2 in 1) increasing the burn time to 8 hours. I'm going to sleep on this for a few weeks to see if I want to make the switch or not.  Another thing the Intrepid, a smaller stove will draft better with the six inch flue.  What to do.  In the meantime will install the Auber AT 100 next cool down.




If you are thinking of buying a new stove......

Stay away from downdraft stoves. Tons of options out there.

Properly seasoned firewood is the beginning of any wood burning endeavor. If you do not have that, you will struggle with any stove sold out there.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2019)

This is tonights load. I won’t touch it again until 6 or 7 in the morning. Depends on when I decide to get up. It has been colder here in the last few days so I have been doing a small two split fire when I get home around 5 and than all the way up to the griddle again at 8pm.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> So visited the stove dealer today (sells VC and Jotul).  He's been doing this 45 years.  Say's as far as the back puffing is concerned, primary needs to be throttled down in small increments some time apart.  Says this is my problem entirely.  Also bigger splits wouldn't hurt either.  Don't understand the science behind that but seems to be working so far.  Also getting the cat hotter.  So here's the downside sort of.  Think the Encore is still too big for the room it's in and over heats it too easily.  To compensate I only put about two logs in at a time.  As such the burn time would not be any different then the Intriped.  The Intrepid was upgraded in 18' to include a bottom ash drawer like the Encore.  Also added fire brick to sides and made it a flexburn like the Encore (2 in 1) increasing the burn time to 8 hours. I'm going to sleep on this for a few weeks to see if I want to make the switch or not.  Another thing the Intrepid, a smaller stove will draft better with the six inch flue.  What to do.  In the meantime will install the Auber AT 100 next cool down.


Have you considered a jacketed stove since it’s such a small room?


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## frased (Jan 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> If it clanks when you turn the lever quickly then it's closing.  Should have added quickly above.



 Tonight when I went to put an Allen wrench on the nut it was only hand tight the cable wasn’t even fastened securely. I adjusted it has a good clank to the shutting now. And I also tightened it a little bit more than hand tight now


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> View attachment 238426
> 
> This is tonights load. I won’t touch it again until 6 or 7 in the morning. Depends on when I decide to get up. It has been colder here in the last few days so I have been doing a small two split fire when I get home around 5 and than all the way up to the griddle again at 8pm.



Very nice!!


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## Diabel (Jan 16, 2019)

This is my night load.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> It's funny they put a section in the manual about adjusting it...yet they still leave the reader confused about where exactly to adjust it to.  When I first had my stove installed it didn't run at all...wasn't till weeks later we discovered it was way out of adjustment from the factory, and this was before they had it in the manual at all, it just said not to ever adjust it.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk



Exactly!


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 16, 2019)

frased said:


> Tonight when I went to put an Allen wrench on the nut it was only hand tight the cable wasn’t even fastened securely. I adjusted it has a good clank to the shutting now. And I also tightened it a little bit more than hand tight now



Mine was only hand tight as well.


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## SculptureOfSound (Jan 16, 2019)

Loving my Montpelier now after my minor adjustment of blocking some of the secondary air...and probably more importantly learning more about it.

I've been having good burns lately, letting it get hotter before shutting down the air completely. You always hear "shut the air down in stages" and I always did, but there's a lot of nuance to it that is not conveyed by the words alone.

Today I let it go with 75% air longer than usual, then 50%, then 25% then air all the way closed. 
 Stove top peaked just over 700 and cruised around 650-675.

What is crazy is I got about the same burn time but almost double the heat as I was before. It's 14 degrees outside and it was 77 in the stove room, 74 in the hall halfway across the house, and about 70 in the bedrooms (it's a long 1650sf ranch, fireplace on far end in external fireplace) With this same load of wood and my previous approach I'd be 2-3 degrees cooler in the house, even when the outdoor temps were 25-30.

What a difference! I don't understand exactly how this is possible, especially as the burn time is virtually the same (and the coals were giving off more heat). All of this burning just pine.


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## SculptureOfSound (Jan 16, 2019)

I should add burn time was only 2 hours of flame/secondaries and then 2 hours of coals...but this was only a half load in a 2cf firebox and just pine, some a bit punky.

I'll have to learn how to burn bigger loads and hardwoods without overfiring, but for now as a night and weekend burner the pine is great (especially nice as you can keep visible flames almost constantly if desired as coal time is so short and you can toss in a split or two for flames and ambiance if desired)


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## Woody Stover (Jan 17, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Think the Encore is still too big for the room it's in and over heats it too easily.  To compensate I only put about two logs in at a time.


A small fan on the floor blowing cool air into the stove room will augment the natural convection loop of heat out of the room.


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## Dobish (Jan 17, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> So visited the stove dealer today (sells VC and Jotul).  He's been doing this 45 years.  Say's as far as the back puffing is concerned, primary needs to be throttled down in small increments some time apart.  Says this is my problem entirely.  Also bigger splits wouldn't hurt either.  Don't understand the science behind that but seems to be working so far.  Also getting the cat hotter.  So here's the downside sort of.  Think the Encore is still too big for the room it's in and over heats it too easily.  To compensate I only put about two logs in at a time.  As such the burn time would not be any different then the Intriped.  The Intrepid was upgraded in 18' to include a bottom ash drawer like the Encore.  Also added fire brick to sides and made it a flexburn like the Encore (2 in 1) increasing the burn time to 8 hours. I'm going to sleep on this for a few weeks to see if I want to make the switch or not.  Another thing the Intrepid, a smaller stove will draft better with the six inch flue.  What to do.  In the meantime will install the Auber AT 100 next cool down.



it sounds counter intuitive, but you have more ability to control the temp with more wood. Bigger splits and a fuller load will allow you to build up the coal bed, and once the bed of coals is nice and hot, you can lower your air control and maintain lower temps in the room. With smaller splits and less wood, you don't get to burn just the off-gasses at a higher temp.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 17, 2019)

Monday, I'll be experimenting with larger splits and loads.  I've done a couple of large knarly splits yesterday and it worked okay.  I don't have any really big stuff like 4X6X18 or something seasoned yet I'll have to defer to next year for that but I have some 4" or so I'll try to pack in there but I think that is still small for the Encore.  Monday's high is supposed to be around 10F so should be a good day for that.  Should have added on a above post the room this is sitting in as 3.25 exposed sides, walls not insulated except for the 1/2" foam board under the vinyl siding.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Jan 17, 2019)

Dobish said:


> it sounds counter intuitive, but you have more ability to control the temp with more wood. Bigger splits and a fuller load will allow you to build up the coal bed, and once the bed of coals is nice and hot, you can lower your air control and maintain lower temps in the room. With smaller splits and less wood, you don't get to burn just the off-gasses at a higher temp.



I agree with this... solid advice


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## Madadam_2 (Jan 17, 2019)

Does anyone know if the Defiant 1610 and the Defiant flexburn 2 in 1 use the same castings. They look identical.


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## Diabel (Jan 18, 2019)

Call the dealer and get the part number for both. If different I would say they are not the same.


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## Kevin Weis (Jan 18, 2019)

The advice on that I was turning down the primary air is looking to be very much what most of the problem was with the puff backing.  The science behind this appears that the new splits need to be ignited well before the air is turned down and this slows down the off gassing somehow and lets the splits maintain a certain burn rate.  Closing the primary too fast must "shock" the flames into remission as apposed to slow close to the same level will maintain the flames to some degree.  Or something like that.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 19, 2019)

Unless you have an insane amount of draft, many small increments is much better than a couple larger increments in regards to preventing back puffing.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 19, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> The advice on that I was turning down the primary air is looking to be very much what most of the problem was with the puff backing.  The science behind this appears that the new splits need to be ignited well before the air is turned down and this slows down the off gassing somehow and lets the splits maintain a certain burn rate.  Closing the primary too fast must "shock" the flames into remission as apposed to slow close to the same level will maintain the flames to some degree.  Or something like that.


Yeah, you need to get the load burning well but if you slam the air shut right away, there are a lot of volatile gasses filling the box and they are easily ignited with just a little additional oxygen. OTOH, once the load is burning well and you cut the air slowly, you still have a lot of wood gassing but it does so at a slower rate so there's less buildup in the box and you don't get the explosive ignitions. Or something to that effect.


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2019)

Morning boys and girls! -1 here last night she after a 9 he burn still had 400 on the cat probe with coal. Finally burning white oak without the stove going nuclear on me (measured a split this morning and 14%). How's everyone doing, did I miss anything?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Morning boys and girls! -1 here last night she after a 9 he burn still had 400 on the cat probe with coal. Finally burning white oak without the stove going nuclear on me (measured a split this morning and 14%). How's everyone doing, did I miss anything?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You have missed lots. Much of the same VC problems just new faces. Happy burning. Do you still have your secondary blocked off?


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## Diabel (Jan 21, 2019)

Happy burning and stay warm!

Primary air steel sealed shut here and stove working great! (I hope I don’t jinx it)!


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## Dobish (Jan 21, 2019)

I just cleaned my chimney cap out yesterday. It was a good reminder why I shouldn't use cardboard to get the fire going! We had been lazy about bringing wood up, and have been burning construction scraps that started out a little damp. I threw some cardboard in to get things started. The next day, I looked out and the whole grate was filled with big nasties. It is amazing how quickly it filled up with crap!

I figured while I had the cap off, I may as well give the pipe a cleaning too. the last 18" or so of the pipe and the cap had some black crusties, but everything else was clear.


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> You have missed lots. Much of the same VC problems just new faces. Happy burning. Do you still have your secondary blocked off?



Definitely still blocked and running a full liner now but the learning curve wasn't that bad. Have people successfully set the secondary with total successfully??? [emoji23][emoji23] Smoke coming out the doors on reload is my newest issue. 


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----------



## Dobish (Jan 21, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Definitely still blocked and running a full liner now but the learning curve wasn't that bad. Have people successfully set the secondary with total successfully??? [emoji23][emoji23] Smoke coming out the doors on reload is my newest issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you don't have the cat engaged do you 

have you checked the chimney cap? I have noticed sometimes this has a big effect on the draft.


----------



## Woody Stover (Jan 21, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Smoke coming out the doors on reload is my newest issue.


If you shut the primary all the way right before opening the door, that would force more air to come through the door but I don't know if it would be enough to make a difference..?


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2019)

I’m once again playing around with the secondary air. I had it completely blocked off this season resulting in low cat temps (1000-1250 cruising temp) which I liked, however, I feel like there is a lot more smoke coming out of the chimney. So I still have the rod disconnected and I took the washer out of the hinge screw so I can tighten the plate down tight. I set it in a fixed position thAt is just a hair open. My attempt here is to get cruising temps in the 1350-1450 range to hopefully achieve less smoke out of the chimney.


----------



## Reckless (Jan 21, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> If you shut the primary all the way right before opening the door, that would force more air to come through the door but I don't know if it would be enough to make a difference..?



Shut or open? I just have been reloading real quick now and it makes me plan my load better. All I'm getting at this point is a the smell of toasting hardwood on a bed of coals.... Could be a catchy holiday song [emoji445]


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m once again playing around with the secondary air. I had it completely blocked off this season resulting in low cat temps (1000-1250 cruising temp) which I liked, however, I feel like there is a lot more smoke coming out of the chimney. So I still have the rod disconnected and I took the washer out of the hinge screw so I can tighten the plate down tight. I set it in a fixed position thAt is just a hair open. My attempt here is to get cruising temps in the 1350-1450 range to hopefully achieve less smoke out of the chimney.



I cruise at 14-1500 all day with it blocked. I really think it all depends on draft among probably a million other VC owner factors.. red shirt or blue? Matching socks? Does you vehicle have more than a half tank? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## Reckless (Jan 21, 2019)

Dobish said:


> you don't have the cat engaged do you
> 
> have you checked the chimney cap? I have noticed sometimes this has a big effect on the draft.



Checked? Like is it blocked up? 48" square cap, I don't think that's possible.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 21, 2019)

My stack could stand to be a little taller. I’m only at 15’. One thing I never had to worry about with the secondary blocked was the cat going nuclear.


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## Woody Stover (Jan 21, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Shut or open?


Well, open to clear the box of smoke, then shut as you open the door so that all of the draft is pulling air in through the door, as opposed to some of the draft being spent pulling air through the primary air channel. As I said, I don't know how much difference it would make, but you could do an A/B test with the door open. Open the primary air, note how much air seems to be pulled in through the door, then close the primary and see if it seems like more air is being pulled in through the door. Worth a try..


----------



## Dobish (Jan 21, 2019)

Reckless said:


> Checked? Like is it blocked up? 48" square cap, I don't think that's possible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can't hurt to take a look. When i start getting a little smoke during loads,  it's always a draft issue.  It seems like once something gets on the grate,  it clogs way sooner.


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## pki1980 (Jan 22, 2019)

Hi, im still having some problems with my Intrepid II. No matter what i do it seems to be more smoke than it is supposed to be leaving the chimney. I usually let it reach 230C on the stovetop and then engage the shutter. with primary air fully open, then I close it slowly and sometimes i can get the fire to almost die down so there are secondaries in the firebox and a lot of smoke passing through the cat but there is still quite a lot of smoke from the chimney.
If the wood is burning a lot when i close the shutter a lot of the times i cannot get it down to only secondaries even with the primary all the way down, so i can seen flames going and also reaching the entrance to the cat. And even then there is smoke coming out of the chimney, not more or less than in the other scenario.
I had a chimney sweep (which is mandatory in sweden each year) and he said that i had almost no soot at all, he wanted to lower the amount of mandatory sweeps to every third year instead. This indicates that at least there is not much creosote building up i guess but i cannot understand why i see as much smoke as i do?
And for reference this litte stove is inserted in a danica cabinett which makes it very hard to adjust things on the back like the chain for the primary air shutter for example. I can feel that the shutter for the air is almost closed when the setting is closed on a cold stove, not sure how much it closes when the stove is hot though since its to hot to be there fiddling with the hand wihout seeing what you are doing 

I guess the problem with not beiing able to shut down the flames could be a gasket issue, but the smoke issue? I have very good draft i can add, with the door fully open and using small wood from the beginning it roars when starting. I have no cat temp sensor (to hard to install in this cabinett since it would demand almost a full rebuild) and also no sensor on the stove pipe. the pipe goes up for about a meter and then vertically in to the wall and up again if that has any impact on the issues? From what i understand this would only reduce draft which i cannot see is the problem :/

Well this got quite long but any input and ideas is appreciated, new cat maybe?


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2019)

pki1980 said:


> Hi, im still having some problems with my Intrepid II. No matter what i do it seems to be more smoke than it is supposed to be leaving the chimney. I usually let it reach 230C on the stovetop and then engage the shutter. with primary air fully open, then I close it slowly and sometimes i can get the fire to almost die down so there are secondaries in the firebox and a lot of smoke passing through the cat but there is still quite a lot of smoke from the chimney.
> If the wood is burning a lot when i close the shutter a lot of the times i cannot get it down to only secondaries even with the primary all the way down, so i can seen flames going and also reaching the entrance to the cat. And even then there is smoke coming out of the chimney, not more or less than in the other scenario.
> I had a chimney sweep (which is mandatory in sweden each year) and he said that i had almost no soot at all, he wanted to lower the amount of mandatory sweeps to every third year instead. This indicates that at least there is not much creosote building up i guess but i cannot understand why i see as much smoke as i do?
> And for reference this litte stove is inserted in a danica cabinett which makes it very hard to adjust things on the back like the chain for the primary air shutter for example. I can feel that the shutter for the air is almost closed when the setting is closed on a cold stove, not sure how much it closes when the stove is hot though since its to hot to be there fiddling with the hand wihout seeing what you are doing
> ...


Is it possibly steam?  How far does it travel from the chimney before it disappears?  Is it white or kind of grey?


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2019)

It has been bitter cold here for the past week. In the mid -25s F

Lots of steam out the chimney. Can even shake the ice off the cap.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2019)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 238889
> 
> 
> It has been bitter cold here for the past week. In the mid -25s F
> ...


Are you running an excel chimney?


----------



## Diabel (Jan 22, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Are you running an excel chimney?



Yea


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Yea


Me too. I see you took off the bird band.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 22, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Me too. I see you took off the bird band.


Does this seem to help with the shape of your cap?  My cap is nasty.


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## Diabel (Jan 22, 2019)

Never had the mesh installed. 
Captured to starlings in about 12 years


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## Reckless (Jan 22, 2019)

Woody Stover said:


> If you shut the primary all the way right before opening the door, that would force more air to come through the door but I don't know if it would be enough to make a difference..?



This is actually working so far! Thanks


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## Diabel (Jan 24, 2019)

As I was reloading (just now) I knocked off the flame shield! Damn....

This has not happened in some time! I suppose I will run the stove with bypass open, wait for it to cool down and hang the flame shield again. Pain in a ......


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## pki1980 (Jan 24, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> Is it possibly steam?  How far does it travel from the chimney before it disappears?  Is it white or kind of grey?


Hi, Well its lightgrey i think. Not white or dark black smoke but somewhere in between. It seem to travel quite far, like 5-10 meters or something like that.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 24, 2019)

Diabel said:


> As I was reloading (just now) I knocked off the flame shield! Damn....
> 
> This has not happened in some time! I suppose I will run the stove with bypass open, wait for it to cool down and hang the flame shield again. Pain in a ......


That sucks. That has not happened to me yet.


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## Diabel (Jan 24, 2019)

What is interesting:

I knocked of the shield with the first split I dropped in (about 5-6” hard maple log). For the first hr. I had the primary at 50% open, flue was sitting at 350, gd at 500 and cat at 450. Now primary 100% open, over two hrs in this unorthodox burn the flue is at 400, gd at 600 and cat at 600!!

The front of the stove throwing tons of heat.....not used to it. It is always the back (cat side) that throws out heat.

Just an observation.


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## Diabel (Jan 24, 2019)

Dental performed. Back in cat business.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 24, 2019)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 239057
> 
> 
> Dental performed. Back in cat business.


That’s crazy. I didn’t think the hood had a whole lot of purpose other than to protect the cat from direct flame


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 26, 2019)

So I've been playing with my stove for many weeks trying to get it to operate as it should, it's a defiant flex burn model 1975 purchased new in 2016.

Before today, if I did a full overnight load I was getting cat temps in the 1600 range every night and I'd come down in the middle of a night to high cat temps and a blow torch sound in the back of the stove.  If I tried to open the bypass and cool down the cat it'd be okay, till I closed and bypass again which would cause the cat to go even crazier.  I had been loading the stove at night on a full hot bed of coals, closing the damper a couple mins later after the wood had caught.

Today, instead of just closing the damper after a couple mins I let the box get pretty hot with bypass open, 500 to 600.  I then shut the bypass and left the air wide open till that cat hit 1300 to 1400.  Only then did I begin to close the air which would slowly reduce cat temps.  This would lead the stove to finally cruise with cat temps around 1100 to 1200 the rest of the load.

All I can think is with this stove, even if the cat lights immediately after closing the bypass with a full load it will eventually be smoking so much that it's just fuelling the cat and not burning much in the box itself.  My griddle temps are now much higher and cat temps kept at bay a little better 

Just wanted to share for others that may be struggling with this stove.  This is my 3rd winter with it and I still am learning.  I grew up with an old VC vigilant and expected similar performance with the new defiant but there's been a steep learning curve for sure.

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## frased (Jan 28, 2019)

How’s it going all. Been a week or 2. Hope all is well.

Seems lately I’m jumping up to 1600-1700 before the CAT calms down.

I’ve been making sure the logs are nice n hot. Open flue and air for the first 10 minutes after stuffing.

But then my cat keeps hanging around 1500-1700 before finally calming down.

Gotta be my fuel.


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## frased (Jan 28, 2019)

Diabel said:


> As I was reloading (just now) I knocked off the flame shield! Damn....
> 
> This has not happened in some time! I suppose I will run the stove with bypass open, wait for it to cool down and hang the flame shield again. Pain in a ......



I always fear I’m going to do that too


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## Reckless (Jan 29, 2019)

frased said:


> How’s it going all. Been a week or 2. Hope all is well.
> 
> Seems lately I’m jumping up to 1600-1700 before the CAT calms down.
> 
> ...



How hot is that cat when you start turning down the air? 


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## Gnanneb86 (Jan 29, 2019)

frased said:


> How’s it going all. Been a week or 2. Hope all is well.
> 
> Seems lately I’m jumping up to 1600-1700 before the CAT calms down.
> 
> ...


I'm having the same issue...

Thought I had it figured out but my method has started to fail.

Seems for the first hour or so the wood just off gasses too much and I can't calm down the roaring cat till the wood starts gassing less.  Almost seems best during this off gassing period to leave the air highest it goes but who knows...

Anyone know how to get the wood to off gas slower?



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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 29, 2019)

frased said:


> How’s it going all. Been a week or 2. Hope all is well.
> 
> Seems lately I’m jumping up to 1600-1700 before the CAT calms down.
> 
> ...


This is the 2550?


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## frased (Jan 30, 2019)

Reckless said:


> How hot is that cat when you start turning down the air?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wait for the cat to start its downward trend before I start to air it down

I started cooking the wood longer (leaving air n damper wide open) before engaging cat. Seems to help. I think the oak is a little greener than I thought. 

I’m almost done with this batch of oak. On to the next batch soon but I do not look forward to getting the new fuel “dialed in” again.


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## RandyBoBandy (Jan 30, 2019)

So I went back to a completely shut secondary for now. It’s -9 out with a windchill somewhere around -30 so the cat was trying to compete with the sun for high temps. 3hrs in a reload cat 1085, pipe 450, GT  625.


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## frased (Jan 30, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> So I went back to a completely shut secondary for now. It’s -9 out with a windchill somewhere around -30 so the cat was trying to compete with the sun for high temps. 3hrs in a reload cat 1085, pipe 450, GT  625.


I’m in MA we have major cold front coming in for the next 3 days


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## Kevin Weis (Feb 3, 2019)

Got my knew Intrepid Flexburn a few days ago.  First inspection reveals this is not a downdraft cat.  It's pretty much all an updraft stove from where the primary pulls in from the coal bed area.  Ash pan is now underneath like the Encore giving more room vertically for more wood.  This apparently gives it a few more hours burn time.  Will see.  When I get it in service I'll update this post.


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## Diabel (Feb 3, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Got my knew Intrepid Flexburn a few days ago.  First inspection reveals this is not a downdraft cat.  It's pretty much all an updraft stove from where the primary pulls in from the coal bed area.  Ash pan is now underneath like the Encore giving more room vertically for more wood.  This apparently gives it a few more hours burn time.  Will see.  When I get it in service I'll update this post.



Very interesting. Where is the cat placed in the firebox?


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## Kevin Weis (Feb 3, 2019)

The cat is kinda placed on its side.  Exhaust passes through cat then horizontally then on up through the flue in the porcelain combuster.  One cover for the cat.  Very simple draft flow through the combuster.  So far with the design I'm impressed.  The draft flow for the cat as shown by VC for the Encore and Defiant does not apply to the new Intrepid.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 4, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> The cat is kinda placed on its side.  Exhaust passes through cat then horizontally then on up through the flue in the porcelain combuster.  One cover for the cat.  Very simple draft flow through the combuster.  So far with the design I'm impressed.  The draft flow for the cat as shown by VC for the Encore and Defiant does not apply to the new Intrepid.


Pics please


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## Kevin Weis (Feb 4, 2019)

Randy, wont get the pics up for a few days, have some family issues to work through now, but sure I'll put the cat in and with the cover off should give you a good bit of how they have set up the primary air draft for these.  My Encore is still hooked up till I can get it sold and out of here so it may be a while till I get it operational after the brake in fires and such.  I do want to want to thank all that helped me figure out the Encore though, was just too much stove for the room it was in after I had it figured out.  But I did get it figured out.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 4, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> Randy, wont get the pics up for a few days, have some family issues to work through now, but sure I'll put the cat in and with the cover off should give you a good bit of how they have set up the primary air draft for these.  My Encore is still hooked up till I can get it sold and out of here so it may be a while till I get it operational after the brake in fires and such.  I do want to want to thank all that helped me figure out the Encore though, was just too much stove for the room it was in after I had it figured out.  But I did get it figured out.


No worries buddy. Handle your business and when it is convenient for you I would love to see some pics of the intrepid setup. Happy burning.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 4, 2019)

@Diabel i have been meaning to ask. Have you you taken your AT100 to the lake house to see where the princess cat temps are running?


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## Diabel (Feb 4, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> @Diabel i have been meaning to ask. Have you you taken your AT100 to the lake house to see where the princess cat temps are running?



No, I have not. I did scrounge a set up from my workshop to bring to the lake. I just have to figure out how to fasten the probe at the correct vertical drop.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 4, 2019)

Diabel said:


> View attachment 240228
> 
> 
> No, I have not. I did scrounge a set up from my workshop to bring to the lake. I just have to figure out how to fasten the probe at the correct vertical drop.


I’m very curious to see actual real time temps reported for the BK’s. I’ve tried to stay up to date on the BK thread but that has proven to be impossible. You guys talk about way to much chit and I haven’t come across anyone reporting actual temps.


----------



## Diabel (Feb 4, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m very curious to see actual real time temps reported for the BK’s. I’ve tried to stay up to date on the BK thread but that has proven to be impossible. You guys talk about way to much chit and I haven’t come across anyone reporting actual temps.



I will report soon. I am heading down to one hr south of  Cuba next week. Then I will be in your state skiing end of Feb. so will not be able to rig the gizmo till March. One thing I will tell you (and I want to @beholler to hear) I like the Princess, but if you dial the encore right (as we have done) with assistance from great guys here, the VC is as good in heat output. Reloads are surly more frequent, VC will eat slightly more wood but I am ok with that.


----------



## Woody Stover (Feb 4, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> Today, instead of just closing the damper after a couple mins I let the box get pretty hot with bypass open, 500 to 600.  I then shut the bypass and left the air wide open till that cat hit 1300 to 1400.  Only then did I begin to close the air which would slowly reduce cat temps.  This would lead the stove to finally cruise with cat temps around 1100 to 1200 the rest of the load.
> 
> All I can think is with this stove, even if the cat lights immediately after closing the bypass with a full load it will eventually be smoking so much that it's just fuelling the cat and not burning much in the box itself.  My griddle temps are now much higher and cat temps kept at bay a little better
> 
> Just wanted to share for others that may be struggling with this stove.  This is my 3rd winter with it and I still am learning.  I grew up with an old VC vigilant and expected similar performance with the new defiant but there's been a steep learning curve for sure.


You could try spraying half of each split with a mister spray bottle, and letting it soak in a couple days before you need to put the wood in..


----------



## Woody Stover (Feb 4, 2019)

RandyBoBandy said:


> I’m very curious to see actual real time temps reported for the BK’s. I’ve tried to stay up to date on the BK thread but that has proven to be impossible. You guys talk about way to much chit and I haven’t come across anyone reporting actual temps.


Hmmm, yeah. 
I'm glad to see the VC thread take off this year. You may be able to overtake the BK thread, if you just post more off-topic chit, then keep repeating the same posts over and over again.


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## Diabel (Feb 4, 2019)

Woody 
You are back I see! Old self.....


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## Woody Stover (Feb 4, 2019)

Diabel said:


> Woody You are back I see! Old self.....


I didn't go anywhere, although the BK guys were wishing I did.


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## Johnny Salami (Feb 8, 2019)

Guys not new to the wood stove game but new to the cat side of wood stoves. Tore out the fire place in the new house purchased a used intrepid ii for $500. Love the looks of it but i am having issues with keeping the temps from soaring. After i purchaced the stove gave it a good cleaning replaced the gaskets on the griddle and the doors, this helped a little. I did have some leaks around the front casting where it meets the side castings so i put a bead of rutland on it from the outside ( enamel is pealing so not overly woried bout the looks) planing on doing a full tearsown and re-cement after burning season. Cat looks to be in good condition might replace with steel cat soon. Last night gave the stove a good vac with the ash vac including the cat chamber and cleaned the newly installed flue. Very minimal deposits on both. After i finished lit a fire engaged the cat once the griddle temp reached 425 450 as i normall do and closed down on my primary but the stove kept climbing in temp. I have a good supply of cut offs (chip wood from the saw mill) that i was using the last few nights because i need to make a run to the big wood pile at the farm where we keep the bigger splits. Should i not be using the chip wood with this stove because they are to small and dry (less than 13% some below 10%) and use the bigger splits from the farm, or maybe use the chip wood to get the cat up to temp and then add my large splits to keep it from running too hot. Also i do have on order a double wall probe and a cat probe. Love the look of the stove just want to make sure i am running it right and get this little stove dialed in


----------



## CTwith3 (Feb 8, 2019)

Trouble! Last night my handle was getting hot, and my cat temperature was low while my GT was 550. I just took a look to see if the combustor had a lot of fly ash and this is what I discovered.
What parts do I replace? Refractory engine? Front manifold?


----------



## CTwith3 (Feb 8, 2019)

Here is the parts picture.


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## Woody Stover (Feb 9, 2019)

Johnny Salami said:


> I did have some leaks around the front casting where it meets the side castings so i put a bead of rutland on it from the outside ( enamel is pealing so not overly woried bout the looks) planing on doing a full tearsown and re-cement after burning season.


When the stove is hot, you might be able to get a better idea where the air leaks are by shooting the seams from the outside with an IR temp gun. If air is being pulled in at a particular seam, the stove will be cooler there.


----------



## Woodsplitter67 (Feb 9, 2019)

CTwith3 said:


> View attachment 240445
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im not sure i see anything broken. Can you be more specific. Im looking at the picture i cant tell if somthing is cracked or broken. I done see any pieces missing


----------



## CTwith3 (Feb 9, 2019)

See the white front edges? There is a gap along the entirety of that white edge. Bulged in probably from over firing? Heat getting in through that gap created by that bulge made my damper handle hot.
I really need my stove running ASAP. Can the gap be packed and the stove be used? Aluminum foil?


----------



## Kevin Weis (Feb 16, 2019)

Okay I'm going to attempt to upload pictures of the inside of the new Intrepid.  First attempt at this so we'll see how it goes.  Also this stove now has a metal cat.  The owners manual says it's ceramic but it's not.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Feb 16, 2019)

Gnanneb86 said:


> I'm having the same issue...
> 
> Thought I had it figured out but my method has started to fail.
> 
> ...


Have you tried regulating the secondary?


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Feb 16, 2019)

frased said:


> I wait for the cat to start its downward trend before I start to air it down
> 
> I started cooking the wood longer (leaving air n damper wide open) before engaging cat. Seems to help. I think the oak is a little greener than I thought.
> 
> I’m almost done with this batch of oak. On to the next batch soon but I do not look forward to getting the new fuel “dialed in” again.


What I have found with my wood:  I’ve been burning mainly a mix of 4yr white oak and 2 yr red oak. If I fill the box full of this wood in the firm of large splits (4”+) it seems to smoke more than flame which results in hard to manage cat temps. If I split it smaller and try and get stovetop in the 550 range (bypass already shut) before I start closing primary it works much better. The problem I believe is to much moisture in the oak even though it is all 20% and lower. I’m a few pieces may be higher but very few. When I burn some very dry ash and elm the cat behaves great.


----------



## begreen (Feb 16, 2019)

Johnny Salami said:


> Guys not new to the wood stove game but new to the cat side of wood stoves. Tore out the fire place in the new house purchased a used intrepid ii for $500. Love the looks of it but i am having issues with keeping the temps from soaring. After i purchaced the stove gave it a good cleaning replaced the gaskets on the griddle and the doors, this helped a little. I did have some leaks around the front casting where it meets the side castings so i put a bead of rutland on it from the outside ( enamel is pealing so not overly woried bout the looks) planing on doing a full tearsown and re-cement after burning season. Cat looks to be in good condition might replace with steel cat soon. Last night gave the stove a good vac with the ash vac including the cat chamber and cleaned the newly installed flue. Very minimal deposits on both. After i finished lit a fire engaged the cat once the griddle temp reached 425 450 as i normall do and closed down on my primary but the stove kept climbing in temp. I have a good supply of cut offs (chip wood from the saw mill) that i was using the last few nights because i need to make a run to the big wood pile at the farm where we keep the bigger splits. Should i not be using the chip wood with this stove because they are to small and dry (less than 13% some below 10%) and use the bigger splits from the farm, or maybe use the chip wood to get the cat up to temp and then add my large splits to keep it from running too hot. Also i do have on order a double wall probe and a cat probe. Love the look of the stove just want to make sure i am running it right and get this little stove dialed in


Try the larger splits. And make sure the thermostat flapper is closing completely.


----------



## RandyBoBandy (Feb 16, 2019)

Johnny Salami said:


> Guys not new to the wood stove game but new to the cat side of wood stoves. Tore out the fire place in the new house purchased a used intrepid ii for $500. Love the looks of it but i am having issues with keeping the temps from soaring. After i purchaced the stove gave it a good cleaning replaced the gaskets on the griddle and the doors, this helped a little. I did have some leaks around the front casting where it meets the side castings so i put a bead of rutland on it from the outside ( enamel is pealing so not overly woried bout the looks) planing on doing a full tearsown and re-cement after burning season. Cat looks to be in good condition might replace with steel cat soon. Last night gave the stove a good vac with the ash vac including the cat chamber and cleaned the newly installed flue. Very minimal deposits on both. After i finished lit a fire engaged the cat once the griddle temp reached 425 450 as i normall do and closed down on my primary but the stove kept climbing in temp. I have a good supply of cut offs (chip wood from the saw mill) that i was using the last few nights because i need to make a run to the big wood pile at the farm where we keep the bigger splits. Should i not be using the chip wood with this stove because they are to small and dry (less than 13% some below 10%) and use the bigger splits from the farm, or maybe use the chip wood to get the cat up to temp and then add my large splits to keep it from running too hot. Also i do have on order a double wall probe and a cat probe. Love the look of the stove just want to make sure i am running it right and get this little stove dialed in


Nice renovation. I would use the “chip” wood as a kindling and burn your larger splits. This should help keep things in check. As long as you have all the leaks buttoned up.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 16, 2019)

Kevin Weis said:


> View attachment 240915
> View attachment 240916
> 
> Okay I'm going to attempt to upload pictures of the inside of the new Intrepid.  First attempt at this so we'll see how it goes.  Also this stove now has a metal cat.  The owners manual says it's ceramic but it's not.


Have you lit a fire to get yet?


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## Kevin Weis (Feb 16, 2019)

Have not.  Got to sell the Encore first and get it out of the room.  Part of the sale is that the purchaser has to remove it from the house.  This hasn't happened yet.  So the Intrepid is just sitting in an adjacent room waiting it's turn.


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## Johnny Salami (Feb 17, 2019)

Update: After a week or two of using the larger splits have not had an issue with the griddle temps getting too high seems to want to cruise around 450-550. Now gonna work on trying to get some longer burn times. Im guessing once i get the new cat and do some more tweeking ill have some good coals in the morning when a wake up that i can use to kick start the fire for the day. One other question to the group. Where the bypass dampner meets the fireback i do see a little bit of a gap all the way around the bypass dampner. Is there suppost to be rope gasket in that area? Also what paint is everyone using to color match their vent piping to the stove? I have been using the rust-o-leum  high heat and i have had some flaking issues at closer to the stove. Finally what suggestions does the group have for enamel repair dont? Its mainly on the sides and the areas are too big for the touch up paint. My best guess by looking at other threads looks like a total re-enamel would be costly and i havent found anyone in the Chicago southland that even does it (Joliet area).


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 17, 2019)

Johnny Salami said:


> Update: After a week or two of using the larger splits have not had an issue with the griddle temps getting too high seems to want to cruise around 450-550. Now gonna work on trying to get some longer burn times. Im guessing once i get the new cat and do some more tweeking ill have some good coals in the morning when a wake up that i can use to kick start the fire for the day. One other question to the group. Where the bypass dampner meets the fireback i do see a little bit of a gap all the way around the bypass dampner. Is there suppost to be rope gasket in that area? Also what paint is everyone using to color match their vent piping to the stove? I have been using the rust-o-leum  high heat and i have had some flaking issues at closer to the stove. Finally what suggestions does the group have for enamel repair dont? Its mainly on the sides and the areas are too big for the touch up paint. My best guess by looking at other threads looks like a total re-enamel would be costly and i havent found anyone in the Chicago southland that even does it (Joliet area).


I don’t have experience with an intrepid but I would imagine there is suppose to be a gasket in the upper fire back that the damper plate seals against. With that small of a fire box I’m guessing you are going to have to do your last load of the night fairly late to have enough coals in the morning. For this load try and use larger squared off splits of oak or locust. Something dense that will have a slow burn rate when choked back. Pack the stove as tight as you can with minimal airspace.


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## mjs416 (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi All - posted this in another thread but thought this would get better responses in this thread.

I recently (as in 2 weeks ago) installed a VC Intrepid Flexburn w/o the cat converter (model 2215). I have started a few small fires over last weekend and let them burn out per the O&M manual. Also - new chimney installed. 

Last night I tried to start a fire and it seems like it is starved for oxygen even with the heat adjustment lever being at high. When I would open the front doors - the fire would perk up. The smoke would draft very well up the chimney. 

When I would close the front doors - it seems like the fire would peter out regardless of what setting I had the burner adjustment at. I poked around the rear end of the stove and discovered an air flap just inside where the combustion air goes into the stove. Regardless of where I set the heat control lever - the flapper didnt move. It seems to me like this could be the issue. Should this flapper be linked somehow to the heat control lever?

I am getting minimal / zero support from the company I purchased it from and am quite frustrated with their lack of customer service so it seems like I am going to have to go at this alone. 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Diabel (Feb 26, 2019)

mjs416 said:


> Hi All - posted this in another thread but thought this would get better responses in this thread.
> 
> I recently (as in 2 weeks ago) installed a VC Intrepid Flexburn w/o the cat converter (model 2215). I have started a few small fires over last weekend and let them burn out per the O&M manual. Also - new chimney installed.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the forum. A schematic diagram of the stove would be handy to determine the inner air flow.

However, what  you are discribing is a perfect scenario of wet (unseasoned) fire wood. Try burning a 2x4 cut up to stove size pieces or any lumber yard scraps. Go through your fire starting steps with this lumber yard wood and see if the fire acts differently. You might have your answer there.

Good luck


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## mjs416 (Feb 26, 2019)

Thanks for the reply.

I will certainly try that. The wood I was using was supposedly seasoned and didnt seem to have any moisture in it but I have no real way of telling.

Any other Intrepid Flexburn owners out there that can lend some input into the rear air inlet damper?


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## mjs416 (Feb 26, 2019)

Also - the glass has become black after only a few firings. Not sure if that is indicative of wet wood too.


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## Johnny Salami (Feb 26, 2019)

mjs416 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I will certainly try that. The wood I was using was supposedly seasoned and didnt seem to have any moisture in it but I have no real way of telling.
> 
> Any other Intrepid Flexburn owners out there that can lend some input into the rear air inlet damper?


Invest in a wood moisture meter, most of the big box home improvement stores have them or of couse amazon. That way you can verify before you buy or use the wood. I just got one this year and was very surprised at what i thought was seasoned was not.


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## Kevin Weis (Feb 26, 2019)

Mjs,I just bought one about a month ago.  it's not hooked up yet as I need to sell the Encore first that I'm currently using.  My air inlet seems to be working okay though.  I'm thinking as above your wood is too wet or your draft right off isn't to par.  With the damper open and a kindling fire well going with the griddle on top open it should take all the smoke up the flue still.  If some still leaks out of the stove with a hot fire going then I think you draft is too weak.  There is a YouTube video on using the Intrepid but it's the Intrepid II stove not the flexburn but process is the same.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 27, 2019)

mjs416 said:


> Also - the glass has become black after only a few firings. Not sure if that is indicative of wet wood too.


Wet wood and possibly trying to burn to low.


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## RandyBoBandy (Feb 27, 2019)

mjs416 said:


> Hi All - posted this in another thread but thought this would get better responses in this thread.
> 
> I recently (as in 2 weeks ago) installed a VC Intrepid Flexburn w/o the cat converter (model 2215). I have started a few small fires over last weekend and let them burn out per the O&M manual. Also - new chimney installed.
> 
> ...


Somewhat of what you are experiencing is common with people new to epa stoves. The common complaint is “I can’t get this stove to burn, it doesn’t heat like my old smoke dragon, this stove sucks, etc”. It is usually related to wood being to wet for modern stoves to burn correctly and efficiently. Another thing that could be an issue is your draft. How tall is your new chimney?  This measurement is from stove top to rain cap. I haven’t looked at the intrepid manual but the encores and defiants require a minimum 16’ at around sea level to 1000 ft. If your primary air flapper is not moving with the primary air control than this is definitely a problem. Is there an Allen head with a cable attached to this flapper?  With the stove cold put the air control in the closed position and  adjust the flapper so it is touching the frame ( all the closed basically). Tighten the Allen head and check for movement with the control.


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## ajayabb (Feb 27, 2019)

Nice secondaries in my Encore tonight


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## Rahm (Mar 1, 2019)

Hi All, 

I finally got a Cat probe thermometer for my Encore Flexburn 2040 this year and I've found that the stove behaves differently than I expected and not at all how the operators manual suggests. I'm wondering if other people's stoves behaves as mine does.

First, the operators manual suggests that the stove top should be over 500 degrees before closing the bypass damper because it indicates that the cat chamber will be up to temp by then. No matter how long I run the stove and no matter how hot the stove top gets, the cat chamber has never gotten close to ignition temperature with the bypass damper open. At most it will reach about 250. The only way to get the cat to ignite is to close the damper and let it heat up from the stove exhaust. On that note, the flue temp is a much better indicator than the stove top temp because it measures the temperature of the exhaust that will need to go through the cat chamber to heat it.

Second, The manual says that when reloading I should allow the new wood to fully ignite before re-closing the bypass damper. I've found that when I open the bypass damper the cat temp drops quickly and if I leave it open too long and the temp falls below 500 or so, the cat won't re-ignite when I close the damper. If I close the bypass damper soon after putting in new wood the cat temp will immediately start to rise.

Third, I've read on this forum of the cat temp rising very quickly when the cat ignites. I haven't experienced that. My cat temp rises slowly and steadily from around 200 when I flip the damper up to 800 or 900 degrees, or higher depending on the size of the load. Sometimes I've experienced a very rapid temp increase around 1100 or 1200 degrees. At first I thought this might indicate that the cat was blown, because I know that the stove can still achieve a secondary burn at a higher temp without the cat in place, so I replaced my ceramic cat with a new steel cat and it operates exactly the same.

Would love to hear if other people's stoves behave like mine or not. Thanks!


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## Woodsplitter67 (Mar 2, 2019)

Rahm said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I finally got a Cat probe thermometer for my Encore Flexburn 2040 this year and I've found that the stove behaves differently than I expected and not at all how the operators manual suggests. I'm wondering if other people's stoves behaves as mine does.
> 
> ...



Your miss reading the manual.. your to get your stove up to temp with the damper open. So get your stove up to 500 then close the damper and that will engage the cat.  You need to wait a bit and that cat temp will need to climb past 600 to light off. When re loading you will need to open the damper. Depending on how much wood is in the box i fo the following. If there is still 1/4 box i just put in the wood let it catch close the damper and let that cat light back off.. If the box is pretty empty. You will need to get the stove back up to 500 and close the damper and basically restart the process

You need to get the stove to 500 degrees prior to closing the damper.. keep the primary air all the way open
You cat will go off at about 600 degrees cat temp with the damper closed ( you looking at your cat prob tem for this no longer looking  at stove top temp )
I also look a flue temp i close my damper when my flue temp is about 400.. at that point my flue is warm enough
I hope this helps you with your stove
        When your damper is open your stove burns like a regular fireplace the smoke and gasses go right up the chimney 
       When your stove is up to temp and you close the damper you go from free burning wood stove to a catalytic mode wood stove being able to burn longer, lower and cleaner


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## Kevin Weis (Mar 2, 2019)

No, the manual does not say when the griddle top (stove) reaches 500 that is also the temperature of the cat also.  I will say it is easy to constru that though.  I have one.  With the stove at around 500 the cat chamber will likely only be around 250 or so as some of the cold primary air is going through the cat chamber as well at that point.  The manual does not really show that good as well.  Once the stove is at or around 500 and you close the damper the cat should jump past 500 from 250 in about 10 minutes more or less.  There other things you need to know as well to keep puff backing to a minimum.  Look back in this thread and all of that is discussed.  You must follow the rules of conduct (manual) for this stove or it will not behave well for you.  Hope this helps.


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## jharkin (Jul 26, 2019)

Soooo.. I wont be joining these VC season threads anymore as I no longer.... drumroll...  own a VC.    Or the drafty antique house it heated.    

We just sold our old place and moved into a modern contemporary that only has a single conventional open fireplace.   No more stoves for me..  Keep up the good fight with your VC's folks.


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## frased (Jul 26, 2019)

Hey all! Hope everyone’s summer is great! 

Question... is there any off season maintenance I need to do? 

I’ve only used the stove 1 season. Stove and chimney were brand new last fall.


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## begreen (Jul 26, 2019)

frased said:


> Hey all! Hope everyone’s summer is great!
> 
> Question... is there any off season maintenance I need to do?
> 
> I’ve only used the stove 1 season. Stove and chimney were brand new last fall.


The flue system should be cleaned for sure. The stove should be inspected, but probably will not need much more than a general cleaning the first year. Check the stove manual for good details on future maintenance.


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## alivegas99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Hi all, first post!

I'm taking delivery of a beautiful new Encore wood stove this week. Just recently started getting excited for it and started reading the Hearth.com forums... I guess the views on these stoves aren't great. I have read pretty much every post on VC's going back a few years but had a question I was hoping to get some input on before this delivery becomes official. 

From reading here, although VC has corrected a few of the problems from earlier models, it seems the downdraft design is what is most troublesome in these newer models. We have a 32 foot interior chimney/flue that will be pulling air from this stove... will this create a strong enough draft to help mitigate the negative effects of a downdraft stove?

Any tips on operating from people with the newest model would be greatly appreciated! I have the operations flowchart made by a poster here printed out and ready for action, haha.

Thank you very much for the time. I hope to be a helpful member of the forum.


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## begreen (Sep 30, 2019)

Welcome. The modern Encore is improved and hopefully much better now than in previous years.  The Achilles heel was the refractory package which has been improved. It is still a very good looking stove and a nice heater.  With a 32ft chimney, you could have the opposite problem, too strong draft. This might not show up until the weather gets cold out. Have them install a key damper in the stove pipe to provide greater draft regulation. 

The other thing that makes a huge difference between struggling to heat and a satisfying burn is the wood. Modern stoves need fully seasoned wood to perform well.


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## Woodsplitter67 (Sep 30, 2019)

alivegas99 said:


> Hi all, first post!
> 
> I'm taking delivery of a beautiful new Encore wood stove this week. Just recently started getting excited for it and started reading the Hearth.com forums... I guess the views on these stoves aren't great. I have read pretty much every post on VC's going back a few years but had a question I was hoping to get some input on before this delivery becomes official.
> 
> ...



I have the 2040.. i have it with an 8in stove pipe. My choice to do the 8in was because I my stack is short, im in a ranch style house. My draft is great so my stove runs really well. I dont over/under draft. With 32ft you should be fine with draft. A little more description could help us out. I hope yor wood supply is good. You'll need good wood with any modern day stove
Congratulations on your purchase....


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## alivegas99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Thanks begreen and woodsplitter.  

We are scheduled to have the 6" pipe installed vs. the 8".  Sounds like, from what begreen said, that is likely the right decision.

Having not burned wood in anything but a very simple early 1980's Jotul #8, I did not appreciate until recently how potentially complicated burning wood for heat is in 2019! A few really cool features have been added but a lot of complexity too. 

Thankfully we have about 5 cords of 1 to 2 year aged wood (mostly oak) lined up and ready to go, but I'm going to have to get in front of it pretty quickly to prepare for the next few years. 

In regard to controlling potential over draft.... I think it was in this thread (or one from years past), where someone put screws in the refractory holes that allow secondary air into the main chamber. For about two dollars I actually bought those screws in case I would have to decrease air flow to keep from over drafting. Would this have a similar effect as a key damper? Or, regardless, is the adjust-ability of the key damper just a really great tool to have on this kind of stove?

Thanks again!


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## begreen (Sep 30, 2019)

Draft is going to vary depending on several factors like the number of turns in the flue path, stove location (basement vs main floor), locale terrain, outside temperature, etc.. Having a key damper in the stovepipe will allow you to fine tune draft if needed. This may only be on cold and/or windy days or it may be needed all the time. You will have to tell us.


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## Dobish (Sep 30, 2019)

I would suggest using it before you start messing with the epa holes, etc. Good wood makes a big difference, so you will be ahead of the game. Make sure you have a cat probe as well, this was a game changer for me. Enjoy it!


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## Dobish (Sep 30, 2019)

New thread for 2019/20 here


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