# Generator Transfer Switch, Opinions ?



## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

OK, I've decided Santa needs to bring me a generator , even if I'm that Santa

Many moon ago, my Mom owned this house (she of the coal stoves, and registered Independent thinking ), and she was preparing to install a generator. She installed a transfer switch, but never got the generator (my step father would bring home a fire truck, which had a generator on it, and charge us up that way)

It's looks alittle beat







Label






Before I call an electrician to  check it out, do you think it will live, or am I pipe dreaming????


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

I meant to put this in DYI ... can some one move it, please?


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## woodgeek (Nov 4, 2012)

Let's see the inside.


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

OK, but how do I open it? I assume the metal push thingy upper right front near the white lever handle?


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## Tramontana (Nov 4, 2012)

I am NOT an electrician, but I know that the switch enclosure in your photo was not intended for outdoor use, and from the look of the photo, it has not weathered well.

NEMA Type 1 Enclosures constructed for indoor use to provide a degree of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts and to provide a degree of protection of the equipment inside the enclosure against ingress of solid foreign objects (falling dirt).

If you have an licensed electrician that will hook this up for you, I would politely decline their services, even if they seem "affordable".  A reputable electrician should refuse to work with this and urge you to acquire the correct equipment for your installation.

Cheers!


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## Tramontana (Nov 4, 2012)

Also, from outward appearances this is a disconnecting switch and not a transfer switch.

You will likely need a means of disconnecting your service from the utility that prevents back feeding current from your generator onto the utility grid.  This can be deadly to utility workers and emergency responders.  A proper transfer switch will usually have a mechanical disconnecting means that opens the main, before closing the back up power circuit.


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## ironpony (Nov 4, 2012)

yes that is a disconnect. odds are your dad would disconnect from the grid and feed the house from it. very unsafe. what ever you decide on for a generator hook up, make sure it is a transfer switch and installed to code so no one gets killed.


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

Well, as my Mom would say "he strikes again".

This box connects to the breaker box, which is on the inside wall to the right of this box (I assume it does, with the piping running to the right).

So, what's "Plan B"?

I'd like to charge 2 refrigerators & a chest freezer ( not at the same time), and maybe the well pump, is possible. Keep it simple, this is uncharted territory for me.


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## seige101 (Nov 4, 2012)

As a licensed electrician in MA i would not hook that up for you. It's the wrong disconnect for outside and it is a disconnect and not a transfer switch. You need something like this http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-31406CRK/p1124.html or http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-31410CRK/p1136.html Depending on how many circuits you want to run on emergency power and your generator size. A licensed electrician would be charging approx $600-750 to install either of the above setups.

The other option is an interlock kit http://www.interlockkit.com/, this should be used with a larger sized generator. You would still need the external plug on the side of the house and some wiring. Installed price approx $500-600


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## Tramontana (Nov 4, 2012)

I certainly mean no disrespect, but it sounds to me by your posts that you are not well enough educated to tackle this project alone.

I would urge you to find a reputable and licensed electrician, and explain what it is that you would like to have done.  If you are interested in learning more about the workings of your electrical system, explain this desire to them, and see if they are willing to teach you a little as they go.

I realize that this likely adds significant cost to your desire of having a backup generator, but there are very serious life safety and property loss implications to improperly installed electrical work.

Forgive me if I misunderstand.  Electrical work is not difficult, but it must be done correctly and safely.

Cheers!


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## Ehouse (Nov 4, 2012)

I'll defer to any electrician, but that appears to be an "on off on" and not a regular "on off" disconnect, and as such, legal the last time I looked.  Center (under the strap) is off and will allow you to open the box.  Up (on) connects house to grid.  Down (on) connects house to genset.  Connecting to one disconnects other.  Anyone?

Ehouse


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

Tramontana said:


> I certainly mean no disrespect, but it sounds to me by your posts that you are not well enough educated to tackle this project alone.
> 
> I would urge you to find a reputable and licensed electrician, and explain what it is that you would like to have done. If you are interested in learning more about the workings of your electrical system, explain this desire to them, and see if they are willing to teach you a little as they go.
> 
> ...


 
No disrespect taken. And you are right I do not have the knowledge, which is why I posted for help. I was mistakenly lead to believe that it was a transfer switch, so I am glad I know now that it is not.

Basically, I want to be able to keep the 2 refrigerators, and the chest freezer from going south  (recharge every couple of hours is fine), and I'd love to be able to run the well pump, but if I can't run the pump, I'll deal with it until I can get city water in here (it's on the street).

What are my best & least expensive options to get this done? That's what I need to know. Once I know, and I can do some research, I'm usually good to go. Bought a truck, a wood stove, trailer hitch (goose neck), trailer,  and many other purchases this way, I think I can handle it  once I have to basics and can make an educated decision. 

I'm not one of those hand wringing, manicured, whinny female types, if you get my drift


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## Ehouse (Nov 4, 2012)

Looking at the tag again, it says 30 amp, so couldn't be hooked to the main.  Could work with a sub panel off the main box though.  Once again, check with a licensed electrician.


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

Ehouse said:


> Looking at the tag again, it says 30 amp, so couldn't be hooked to the main. Could work with a sub panel off the main box though. Once again, check with a licensed electrician.


 
 Yes, sorry.... sub.... main is in the basement, and feeds the sub on the first floor. This, I know with out a doubt.


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## thewoodlands (Nov 4, 2012)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> Yes, sorry.... sub.... main is in the basement, and feeds the sub on the first floor. This, I know with out a doubt.


Who supplies the power to your house? When we lived in our old house all we needed was what I call a welders plug, when we had this house built we needed a transfer switch (I think it's NYS law, but check with who provides your electricity, they will tell you what you can have.

Some info. http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html

zap


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## seige101 (Nov 4, 2012)

zap said:


> Who supplies the power to your house? When we lived in our old house all we needed was what I call a welders plug, when we had this house built we needed a transfer switch (I think it's NYS law, but check with who provides your electricity, they will tell you what you can have.
> 
> Some info. http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html
> 
> zap



National Electrical Code and every power company out there requires a transfer switch


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## seige101 (Nov 4, 2012)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> ...
> What are my best & least expensive options to get this done? That's what I need to know. Once I know, and I can do some research, I'm usually good to go. Bought a truck, a wood stove, trailer hitch (goose neck), trailer, and many other purchases this way, I think I can handle it once I have to basics and can make an educated decision.


 
Check out my post a couple posts up. I listed a few of the easiest most cost effective ways to get r done.


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## Dix (Nov 4, 2012)

Can I do this with out a transfer switch? I know I can recharge the appliances with out a transfer switch, but what about the well pump?

Submersible, BTW. Electrical is in the basement.


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## Ehouse (Nov 4, 2012)

The same thing can be had at lowe's for $133.00.  It's called a GE 100 amp emergency power generator transfer switch.

Ehouse


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## ironpony (Nov 4, 2012)

you could have a receptacle and plug added to the well, then it would plug in like a lamp. unplug the well and plug into the generator. couple of extension cords for the refrig freezer. simple and cheap.


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## Ehouse (Nov 4, 2012)

Here's what I think's going on here.  Mumsey had it right.  You're probably coming off a 30 amp breaker, maybe a double 30 from the main panel,  cable comes outside to the double pole double throw generator transfer switch because the genset can't be run inside (fire truck, where did he hook into the system?), then back in to the subpanel.  Handle is up on the transfer switch so I'll bet everything you want to run off the genset is on that subpanel, even the well pump.  Any labels on the panels?  Time to summon your electrician to inspect the setup.  That box is probably outdoor rated even though rusty, and appears to be a legal manual generator transfer switch.  Let him (Her) throw it to the down position and see what drops out.  Bet all you need is the properly sized genset.

Ehouse


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## Tramontana (Nov 4, 2012)

I searched the GE part based on photo in the original post, and it is listed as NEMA 1 rated, which is not suited for outdoor use.


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## hilbiliarkiboi (Nov 4, 2012)

I can see the "on" stamped @ top & bottom. Ask electrician if it could be moved inside.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 4, 2012)

http://www.relectric.com/Store/Switches/TC35321


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## Ehouse (Nov 5, 2012)

If it's been used outside and is not rated for it, I'd replace it with one so rated or with an inside one.  In that case you'll need an outside receptical.  How was the firetruck genny connected?  Prolly get a new box for under $100.  If your sub panel checks out that's probably the best way to go.

Ehouse


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## jharkin (Nov 5, 2012)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:


> What are my best & least expensive options to get this done? That's what I need to know.


 

The post from seige101 above gave you your answer.. The two common setups are the Reliance Controls style transfer switch box, or a a* panel interlock *backfeed breaker*.*

The interlock breaker is cheapest in terms of materials (maybe $50-75 for the interlock kit and another $100-200 for the input box and wiring), but you need to either get a big gen to run the whole house (prob need a BIG one for the well pump anyway) or know to turn off a lot of loads before switching over. And with the entire house disconnected from the street you will only know the power came back by watching for your neighbors lights to come on.

The transfer panel is a bit more cost of materials (maybe $300-400 with wiring, etc) but lets you selectively choose circuits to power and works with smaller gensets better.

Add a few hours labor by a pro electrician and permitting fees to either.

E


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## FrankMA (Nov 5, 2012)

seige101 said:


> You need something like this http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-31406CRK/p1124.html or http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-31410CRK/p1136.html Depending on how many circuits you want to run on emergency power and your generator size. A licensed electrician would be charging approx $600-750 to install either of the above setups


 
I have something very similar to these two transfer switches. They work quite well and the breakers automatically switch over to grid power when the grid power becomes available again. I decided to do a legal install as I would not want to be responsible for injuring a lineman by backfeeding into the 240V plug outlet that's located just below my 200 amp electrical panel. Everyone says you just have to disconnect the main breakers when you backfeed and all is safe but I would not want to take the chance.


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## jharkin (Nov 5, 2012)

FrankMA said:


> I decided to do a legal install as I would not want to be responsible for injuring a lineman by backfeeding into the 240V plug outlet that's located just below my 200 amp electrical panel.


 
+1  same reason I put in a dedicated transfer panel.  the other danger folks forget is that to back feed a dryer outlet you need to make up a double male end 220v cable.  Those are nicknamed suicide cables for a reason...


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## Ehouse (Nov 5, 2012)

Check out www.renovationheadquarters.com, How to wire a generator transfer switch, for an illustration of a subpanel with manual transfer switch installation.

Ehouse


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## maple1 (Nov 5, 2012)

There is another possible option. I forget exactly what it's called (I'll call it a thingy here), but the meter gets unplugged from its socket, the thingy gets plugged into the meter socket, then the meter socket gets plugged into the thingy. That is, it is sandwiched between your meter & the meter socket. The thingy has a generator cord receptacle on it, knows when the power goes out, and when it does it switches from the main power supply to the generator receptacle. You just have to plug your generator into it & fire it up. When the power comes back on it switches itself back. They were new around here when I checked them out a bit a year ago. Supplier was temporarily out of stock then. They were around $700, had to be done by an electrician, and required a disconnect & reconnect by the power company. I have since put it off (i.e. forgot about it), but I should look into it again - we haven't had any serious long outages here for a while which just means we're way overdue. But it definitely sounded like the easiest, simplest & cleanest solution. No rewiring or anything like that - just plug & play installation. By qualified people, that is.


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## Tramontana (Nov 5, 2012)

I think the "thingy" mentioned by maple1 is called a GenerLink, which I found by Googling "meter socket transfer switch".

Interesting concept, but might necessitate installation by the Utility versus a licensed electrician.  At least in my service area (Xcel Energy) I believe it is illegal to remove the seal that they apply at the meter socket.

Cheers!


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## granpajohn (Nov 5, 2012)

All the responses are filled with great information. But, I'd like to take a look at the OP's needs:
She wants to run 2 refrigerators and a freezer, and possibly the well pump.

The well is the troublemaker. If you can get by without it, (as indicated), you're best, least costly option is to run a small (3Kw maybe) genset with 2 electrical cords. This is an annoying way to do things, but simple, easy to understand, and many, many others do the same.

If you like staged construction planning, you could buy just the genset now, (plan for a bigger size), and add in the electric panel conveniences as future budget allows.

Be advised that the 240v well pump won't be included in this scenario.
That's what I would do. Heck, that's what I currently am doing. (We fill the bathtub before the storm. I'll bet you do too.)


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## ironpony (Nov 5, 2012)

why is everyone so concerned about the well pump??? a 1hp deep well pump only draws 8.5 amps 220 volt
a standard 5000 watt 6250 surge generator will easily run a well pump and quite a bit more
my summary of advice given so far, which is all very good but might still be confusing you.
have a licensed electrician come out and give you an estimate to install a transfer switch with the circuits you would like to run
have him calculate the load for said circuits
match generator to load size with some extra
I think you will find it to be less than you think.
in the end, flip switch start generator, power in house no messing with breakers etc.that could be forgotten to turn on/off
so simple a caveman can do it


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## CTguy9230 (Nov 5, 2012)

i would agree with ironpony,,it will be less then you think

and you'll have peice of mind that its done right and wont kill the guy trying to restore your power


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## FrankMA (Nov 5, 2012)

Here's my experience with switching from grid power (when it goes down) to generator power using my new generator and transfer switch. I highly recommend spending a few extra $$$ to get this arrangement as it will be well worth it when your time of need presents itself. I've never had a generator before and this explains just how easy this type of set-up is to get you powered up and back into the world of electricity.

Take generator to outside of my garage, start generator and let it warm up for a few minutes, plug power cord into generator recepticle and other end into recepticle located next to transfer switch box, flip the breaker switches on transfer box from "line" (grid) power to "generator" power - that's it! Generator power is now running about 95% of all my electrical needs in my home and all is right with the world.

Yes, you have to spend some money but #1 - it's safe for my family and any line workers, #2 - it's easy (wife does not like this kind of stuff but can easily and safely do it if I'm not around), #3 - I have power within 10 minutes of losing grid power.


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## maple1 (Nov 6, 2012)

Tramontana said:


> I think the "thingy" mentioned by maple1 is called a GenerLink, which I found by Googling "meter socket transfer switch".
> 
> Interesting concept, but might necessitate installation by the Utility versus a licensed electrician. At least in my service area (Xcel Energy) I believe it is illegal to remove the seal that they apply at the meter socket.
> 
> Cheers!


 
Generlink - yes, I think that's it. And yes, it would require a disconnect & reconnect by the power company as I mentioned above. But no extra wiring or circuit re-arranging or anything like that. I'm waiting on my electrician to come hook up my new backup electric boiler - I think I'll quiz him on this again.


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## Ehouse (Nov 6, 2012)

I checked with my nephew who is an electrical instructor at SUNY Delhi. He says the use of a sub panel with a manual transfer switch (on off on) is perfectly legal and safe. It may be less common than other methods, but by no means rare. It's used extensively in agricultural applications as well as PV, Generator installations. He says people don't use it for the same reasons they buy a Cuisinart coffee maker instead of a Mr. Coffee $20 special. A quick web search will turn up many examples. If your setup is, as I suspect, of this type, and your subpanel has your desired loads, then you don't need anything more than to replace the transfer switch with one that's outdoor rated. You'll also need a plug in of some sort to connect the genset to the transfer switch. I don't see one in the pic. Have your electrician out for a look see.

One caveat;  if you're hooking the generator directly to the subpanel, that would be illegal and unsafe, as you'd be using the transfer switch as a disconnect.  The genset must be hooked into one side of the transfer switch.

Ehouse


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## Tramontana (Nov 6, 2012)

I hate to beat on this horse any further, but a couple of  points that haven't been made;

Whoever installed this transfer switch either didn't know better than to install a properly rated outdoor enclosure/device, or didn't care.  Either way, given what is and is not visible in the photos, I would question the remainder of the install, clear back to the sub panel.  If they also installed the sub panel, I would get the whole system inspected.

What I fear is that this installation is likely so far out of date, or completely non-compliant, regarding code, that this opens an entire can of worms of having further work made to the system.

All the more reason to have a licensed electrician check the entire thing out.

Cheers and good luck.


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## seige101 (Nov 6, 2012)

Tramontana said:


> I hate to beat on this horse any further, but a couple of points that haven't been made;
> 
> Whoever installed this transfer switch either didn't know better than to install a properly rated outdoor enclosure/device, or didn't care. Either way, given what is and is not visible in the photos, I would question the remainder of the install, clear back to the sub panel. If they also installed the sub panel, I would get the whole system inspected.
> 
> ...



I completely agree. I was shocked someone would even suggest to have the old beat up rusted probably barely working switch relocated inside.


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## btuser (Nov 6, 2012)

Tramontana said:


> I certainly mean no disrespect, but it sounds to me by your posts that you are not well enough educated to tackle this project alone.


Bite your tongue!  Dixie can do ANYTHING!

I'd vote for replacing the disconnect and installing an interlock kit.  That can be done by removing the current disconnect and installing a splice box with a plug outlet./inlet where the generator would be connected.  Then you "back-feed" to the panel, turn off the main breaker (with the disconnect kit) and turn off/on the breakers you want to use when you want to use them.  This is usually the most cost-effective way to get the most flexibility.  The number of circuits you run is entirely up to you and the size of the generator you procure.  It's also the cheapest for the DIY person.  You drill/bolt the interlock to main panel cover (couple small holes) move a couple breakers around and you're good to go.  

The problem with the interlock kit is there not available for every panel.  They also don't disconnect the neutral like a true transfer switch which may be needed depending(recommended) which generator you get.


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## MasterMech (Nov 7, 2012)

Ehouse said:


> I checked with my nephew who is an electrical instructor at SUNY Delhi. He says the use of a sub panel with a manual transfer switch (on off on) is perfectly legal and safe. It may be less common than other methods, but by no means rare. It's used extensively in agricultural applications as well as PV, Generator installations.
> Ehouse


 
Exactly the setup I have.


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## nate379 (Nov 7, 2012)

I just backfeed my panel.  My solar panels are setup the same.


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## woodgeek (Nov 7, 2012)

I was surprised how much the interlock 'kits' cost for a couple bits of sheet metal and stickers.  Most panel manufacturers sell replacement face plates with a factory installed interlock on them.  Many get a UL listing, you don't need to drill holes into your panel face, and should have an easier time on inspection or resale.  Then you can just backfeed with a cheap socket and cord.

Google you panel brand name and 'interlock panel'.


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## hilbiliarkiboi (Nov 11, 2012)

seige101 said:


> I completely agree. I was shocked someone would even suggest to have the old beat up rusted probably barely working switch relocated inside.



Nice pun!  But if a qualified electician thinks its servicable, there is no need to replace it.
If it works move it in.  I bet everything is kosher. If not, a new switch and generator receptacle will likely suffice.


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## hilbiliarkiboi (Nov 11, 2012)

jharkin said:


> +1  same reason I put in a dedicated transfer panel.  the other danger folks forget is that to back feed a dryer outlet you need to make up a double male end 220v cable.  Those are nicknamed suicide cables for a reason...



Generator receptacle/input boxes have a male plug recessed in a box that is not exposed while connecting.


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## hilbiliarkiboi (Nov 11, 2012)

Tramontana said:


> I hate to beat on this horse any further, but a couple of  points that haven't been made;
> 
> Whoever installed this transfer switch either didn't know better than to install a properly rated outdoor enclosure/device, or didn't care.  Either way, given what is and is not visible in the photos, I would question the remainder of the install, clear back to the sub panel.  If they also installed the sub panel, I would get the whole system inspected.
> 
> ...



I also think an inspection is due, but I also believe the person that used it was capable. 
If the parts you have pass, a rect/input and new conductor installed should not be much more than a service call.
As noted, your switch is rated @ 30amps max. Btw, was it protected by a porch or overhang?


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## jharkin (Nov 11, 2012)

hilbiliarkiboi said:


> Generator receptacle/input boxes have a male plug recessed in a box that is not exposed while connecting.


 
Yup, thats what I have.  Just pointing out that folks who don't want to spend the money for an interlock or transfer switch and think they can backfeed the house on the cheap sometimes get the idea to just hook into a dryer outlet


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## Ehouse (Nov 12, 2012)

hilbiliarkiboi said:


> Nice pun! But if a qualified electician thinks its servicable, there is no need to replace it.
> If it works move it in. I bet everything is kosher. If not, a new switch and generator receptacle will likely suffice.[/quote
> 
> An electrician may also allow you to build an enclosure around the box if he feels it's serviceable.
> ...


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