# Up close with a Garn Jr.



## heaterman (Sep 16, 2013)

Had an opportunity to get some shots of a Garn Jr the U.P. rep (Bob Barrons) had up at the Logging congress in Escanaba and figured I should share.....
Fire away with questions.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 16, 2013)

Can you burn one of these on a 1.5 acre suburban lot and not piss off your neighbors?  I've always liked the simplicity of the Garns but a building to house it always priced it out for me.  I could integrate this into my building and likely wouldn't even need a heat exchanger.


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## heaterman (Sep 16, 2013)

SolarAndWood said:


> Can you burn one of these on a 1.5 acre suburban lot and not piss off your neighbors?  I've always liked the simplicity of the Garns but a building to house it always priced it out for me.  I could integrate this into my building and likely wouldn't even need a heat exchanger.




Anything will smoke to some extent or another if wood quality is poor or the unit is overloaded but I have to say if you can't burn clean in a Garn you won't be able to do it with anything else either. 
Typically I'll see a trace of smoke on start up then nothing for the duration of the burn with a Garn. Some steam/water vapor yes, but smoke, very little.


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## SolarAndWood (Sep 16, 2013)

That's a pretty compelling package especially if it could serve as the tank for my planned 1000 sq ft drainback system.  Is it significantly cheaper than the 1500?


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## shawntitan (Sep 17, 2013)

What's the btu rating on these?


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## TCaldwell (Sep 17, 2013)

what is with the bolted manway cover and the vertical pipe next to it?


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

SolarAndWood said:


> That's a pretty compelling package especially if it could serve as the tank for my planned 1000 sq ft drainback system.  Is it significantly cheaper than the 1500?



A garn is well suited for solar storage. We ran into one a couple years ago that had been in use since 1984 that was connected to a pair of ancient flat panels. The owner said the water temp in the Garn never got below 100-115* in the summer with no fire. It preheated nearly all the hot water for his small dairy farm and home for nearly 30 years.
Factory list price on the Jr is $10,995 plus the flue kit and chemical package so you are looking at roughly $11,600 complete. I think all areas of the country are the same price + freight. 
The 1500 is about $3,000 above that.


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

TCaldwell said:


> what is with the bolted manway cover and the vertical pipe next to it?



On the Jr. they deleted the normal manway opening found on the 1500-2000 and went with a metal plate that bolts down. It can be easily removed for access if ever needed. (You can see the plate laying under the Garn in one of the pictures) 
The small coffee can size fixture next to the manway opening is where the atmospheric vent pipe terminates just like the vent/overflow on your 1900 Tom. The overflow drain comes out the front just like the other models.


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

shawntitan said:


> What's the btu rating on these?



The burn rate is around 200,000 if I recall. As with all batch burn/storage combinations though, the burn rate doesn't really mean much because you are heating from storage rather than a fire that is cycling on/off  all the time.
The only reason the BTU rating would be a concern is if you had a load that was larger than what the unit would produce on a continuous fire basis.
The Jr was designed to match up with a typical residential application where the heat loss is under 100,000 btu/hr at worst case conditions. Most "normal" houses are in the 50-60 range in the typical Midwest climate.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 17, 2013)

Heaterman:
So this would fit in a 8'x 12" insulated shed with 8' ceiling height?

what would you recommend for rvalue of insulation?

Assume boiler will get insulated as the other boilers also.


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Heaterman:
> So this would fit in a 8'x 12" insulated shed with 8' ceiling height?
> 
> what would you recommend for rvalue of insulation?
> ...



I don't see any reason you couldn't put it in something like that. The unit itself is about 7 feet long and about 60" or so top to bottom/side to side. 
The insulation kit I had made up for the 1500 and 2000 is heavy 6" fiberglass so R-20 . They work well based on customer feedback. If your shed was insulated and then the Garn itself also wrapped up, you would have very little heat lost to the great outdoors.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Sep 17, 2013)

Did they incorporate the anode rods in the JR?


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> Did they incorporate the anode rods in the JR?



Yes there is an anode hanging in the tank. You can see a little of it in the thumbnail picture of the tank interior right behind the overflow pipe.


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## MaineGuy (Sep 17, 2013)

First time posting here.  I"ve been reading everything I can on the sight for a couple weeks now.  I'm looking at upgrading my heating system next spring/summer, I've narrowed it down to a garn jr, or a wood gasifier (haven't settled on a brand yet) and adding storage.  I'm finding that it will cost me about the same amount of money for either set up.  I was a little scared off from the garn when I read the operating manual online.  It sounds like there could be a lot of maintenance from reading the manual?  Is there really? or is the manual just over cautious? 

I currently have one of those older smoke dragons (heatmor 400 series), which has worked fine for me (especially since it's heating my house and my inlaws so I only had to pay for half of it)  We've been burning 20 cord of wood a year to heat both houses, and my house is probably using 3/4's of the heat that actually makes it to the houses.  My father in law decided he didn't want to burn wood anymore and I refuse to process what I figure will be 15 cord to heat just my house by myself.  Which is a little over 2800 sq feet.  The garn would be a pretty easy install for me since I think I can just unhook my owb and hx, and replace it with a garn jr, and possibly a different hx.  I've alway thought the ports were too small on my current hx, and I want to move my wood burning operation closer to my house.  (like behind my garage instead of 250 foot towards my in laws house).

I realize that it probably varies by installation but what is your best guestimate on wood consumption on a garn jr? 

Any information I can get on the Garn Jr. would be greatly appreciated.  I'm hoping to go look at one this weekend at a fair I think there's supposed to be a dealer there.


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## heaterman (Sep 17, 2013)

Actual field results based on customer feedback when switching from an OWB to a Garn usually run toward cutting the wood consumption by half. At least that's what has been reported to me on the ones we have done. I wouldn't think you'd be any different when switching from a Heatmor. I used to sell those back in the day when I was oblivious to anything different.


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## MaineGuy (Sep 17, 2013)

If I could cut my wood consumption in half that would be a no brainer for me.  I've had my heatmor for I think 7 or 8 years.  It's paid for it self a couple times now so I don't feel too bad, especially since I only paid for half the setup and I cut all the wood off my land.  I Just want to have to cut and burn less wood.  And not have to wade through the snow to put wood in. Gasser's were pretty new to the seen when I got the heatmor.

Can you recommend an hx?  What information would you need?  I have a 50 plate hx right now with 1" ports.  The thing I never liked about it was my system is set up so all my return water goes through the heat exchanger before it re-enters my oil boiler. (which I can control with a valve for when I am burning oil) The main return line I think is about 1 1/2" pipe, so its reduced down to go through a 1" port.  I don't know the technicalities behind this, but common sense just tells me it's restricting my flow?  My oil boiler is a utica starfire 3, I believe it's roughly 117,000 btuh.  What little I've used it in the past 7 or 8 years it seems to heat my house just fine in the winter.

With the hx I have now it didn't seem like I could ever get the my water temps in my oil boiler above 160.

The other item that is steering my towards the garn is the venting options.  I believe where I plan on putting it I could just vent it out the wall and not have to put up a vertical chimney?  Are there any other gassers that allow this?  Plus my oil boiler is just on the other side of my garage backwall so the run would be much shorter than it is now, and above ground and in an area that I plan to enclose, (my new indoor boiler room).


Oh btw thanks for the information, its very helpful.  Sorry for all the questions.  There's just so many options it's hard to decide on the best one.


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## Fred61 (Sep 17, 2013)

I have a brother-in-law with a Heatmor and the thing just keeps running forever. I don't remember now how long ago he installed it but I think it's been there for more than 20 years. He burns so much wood he had to build his own wood processer. When you said you were running a Heatmor I had visions of him loading dripping wet wood in the thing and getting away with it, overlooking the smoke. 

A Garn or any other gasser won't burn wet wood so keep that in mind as you progress. If you don't have dry wood on hand right now, forget about the project for this year. Dry is a relative term. To my B-I-L it's "cut in Sept. and burn in Oct". Your wood should be down in the 20% moisture range for a gasser and you can't say "I'll struggle through this year with wet wood and will be prepared with dry wood next year". Gassers won't let you do that.


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## MaineGuy (Sep 17, 2013)

It will be one more winter with the heatmor than hopefully I will be finding a new home for it.  I'll just have to lie about how much wood it burns like the dealer did to me when I bought it....lol


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## willyswagon (Sep 20, 2013)

If I would have know this was going to be on the market this year, I would have waited for it.


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## StihlHead (Sep 20, 2013)

Not so amusingly, when I clicked on this thread an ad came up for the Garn Jr. in the header of this forum. And an ad for EKO at the bottom here.

Not that it matters, Garn and EKO, as well as all other indoor and outdoor wood fired boilers are banned in Oregon at this time. And with the exception of Greenwood, all indoor and outdoor wood fired boilers are banned in WA state as well. So its wasted advertising money on us... 

And yes, to make certain people happy, they are technically not banned in either state. With the one exception of GreenWood in WA state, you just cannot buy or install an IWB or OWB in either state at this time. In the case of WA state, they have to be EPA certified and tested to WA state emissions levels, and then apply for WA state approval. In the case of OR, the OR DEQ is waiting for EPA regulations regarding wood boilers before they will be allowed to be sold here again (if ever).


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## heaterman (Sep 20, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> Not so amusingly, when I clicked on this thread an ad came up for the Garn Jr. in the header of this forum. And an ad for EKO at the bottom here.
> 
> Not that it matters, Garn and EKO, as well as all other indoor and outdoor wood fired boilers are banned in Oregon at this time. And with the exception of Greenwood, all indoor and outdoor wood fired boilers are banned in WA state as well. So its wasted advertising money on us...
> 
> And yes, to make certain people happy, they are technically not banned in either state. With the one exception of GreenWood in WA state, you just cannot buy or install an IWB or OWB in either state at this time. In the case of WA state, they have to be EPA certified and tested to WA state emissions levels, and then apply for WA state approval. In the case of OR, the OR DEQ is waiting for EPA regulations regarding wood boilers before they will be allowed to be sold here again (if ever).




What about pellet boilers and stoves?


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## StihlHead (Sep 21, 2013)

heaterman said:


> What about pellet boilers and stoves?


 
According to the DEQ when I talked to them earlier this month, pellet boilers and stoves are exempt from any limits in OR, and thus are allowed.

In WA state, cat/non-cat pellet boilers and stoves are required to pass the same state particulate maximums as non-cat wood stoves and boilers (cat: 2.5 gr. per hr., non-cat: 4.5 gr. per hr.). As of their latest update, there are only 3 indoor pellet boilers that are certified in WA state, two from Kunzel and one from Harmon. As for pellet stoves in WA state, there is a large list that are approved for sale there (similar to wood stoves).


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## stee6043 (Sep 21, 2013)

If only that thing was around 5 years ago.....

Does anybody run a Garn with a typical vertical chimney arrangement?  I'm just curious since this Garn Jr may actually open the Garn up to basement installations.  The direct vent isn't feasible for us below-grade burners.

Thanks for the pics!  I bet the leaves are getting close to changing up in Escanaba?


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## maple1 (Sep 21, 2013)

That's a catch-22. There are not many basements (relatively speaking) that you could get this thing into.

But if I had a basement that I could get it into, it would definitely be on my short short list of choices.


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## stee6043 (Sep 21, 2013)

maple1 said:


> That's a catch-22. There are not many basements (relatively speaking) that you could get this thing into.
> 
> But if I had a basement that I could get it into, it would definitely be on my short short list of choices.



  I have a walkout and this beast would easily fit through my slider....so the flue would be the only catch in my case.


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## heaterman (Sep 21, 2013)

You can use a vertical flue with a Garn but there is a catch. For any flue using Class A chimney, like the Garn does, there can be only one 90* turn. That means if the pipe exiting stright out the back of the Garn is below grade, you'd have to excavate down to it and build a "chase" to grade level for the pipe. It also makes accessing the tee used for the 90* turn problematic when it comes time to clean it.
If you can put it on the "daylight" wall of the basement it is no problem.


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## heaterman (Sep 21, 2013)

StihlHead said:


> According to the DEQ when I talked to them earlier this month, pellet boilers and stoves are exempt from any limits in OR, and thus are allowed.
> 
> In WA state, cat/non-cat pellet boilers and stoves are required to pass the same state particulate maximums as non-cat wood stoves and boilers (cat: 2.5 gr. per hr., non-cat: 4.5 gr. per hr.). As of their latest update, there are only 3 indoor pellet boilers that are certified in WA state, two from Kunzel and one from Harmon. As for pellet stoves in WA state, there is a large list that are approved for sale there (similar to wood stoves).




I have a fear that this is where the whole industry is going to wind up unless manufacturers cease building the junk that is on the market now and users start adopting best practices in their burn habits. 

In a nut shell, this is what I see coming down the track....... Government types can and probably will ban dirty burning appliances but that's only one side of the problem.
The thing they can't control (and they are already figuring this out) is the fuel quality that people put in the newer gasification type units. 
Anyone who has run one knows that properly seasoned fuel is key to a clean burn and good efficiency.
So the next logical step in the minds of those regulating emissions from wood burners will be that they regulate the fuel too. That means pellets or some other kind of fuel that has a consistency that lends itself to a standard level of performance.

Don't think they can do that? Just look at unleaded gas and low sulfur diesel fuel. They have lot's and lot's of practice in telling us what we can and can't do or use.
You heard it here first.


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## StihlHead (Sep 21, 2013)

Oh, they can certainly do that. The EPA came down hard on coal burning yesterday, and power & coal companies are screaming. However, in many cases the reasons for laws and limits are poorly researched or understood, and often times are circumvented. Rather than reduce CO2 emissions from new US coal fired plants, utilities will simply switch to NG and the coal will be exported to China, where it will be released into the atmosphere there instead of here. So what will be gained by that? 

In OR you are 'supposed' burn dry seasoned wood. But on the OR state DEQ wood burning site, they have wood seasoning all screwed up. They state that oak, maple and madrone take 6 months to season, while alder is listed as taking longer. In reality, alder is 6 months or less, and the dense hardwoods like madrone and oak take at least a year, if not two. Good luck getting oak to dry to 20% here in 6 months. Alder is easy. I have both in my racks now, the oak is almost at 20% after 2 years, the alder was 18% in less than one. But the DEQ knows best for what we need in the state of OR, regardless of the actual facts.

http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/burning/woodstoves/101.htm


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## chewy (Sep 21, 2013)

Heaterman,  I just want to say Ty for all the time you put to this forum.  These types of shows, to my knowledge, don't come around my neck of the woods.  Thanks for taking us through the garn jr. 

Erin


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## heaterman (Sep 21, 2013)

chewy said:


> Heaterman,  I just want to say Ty for all the time you put to this forum.  These types of shows, to my knowledge, don't come around my neck of the woods.  Thanks for taking us through the garn jr.
> 
> Erin



You're welcome! I really enjoy it here because it seems this site draws people who sincerely want to learn how to do it right. ...Not that I know everything there is to know, but what I do I will gladly pass along
Some of the other forums......not so much.
Making a case for burning wood right on some other forums is like wrestling a pig in a mud hole.  
All you get is dirty and the pig likes it.


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## BoilerMan (Sep 22, 2013)

heaterman said:


> Some of the other forums......not so much.
> Making a case for burning wood right on some other forums is like wrestling a pig in a mud hole.
> All you get is dirty and the pig likes it.


 
Well said!

TS


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## Jim K in PA (Sep 23, 2013)

The other thing to be aware of is the height limit for a vertical flue with a GARN.  I believe the fan in the Jr. is the same as the 1500/2000, so should have similar flow specs.  The limit is 18' above the base of the unit to the top of the flue.  HM - please correct me if I have this wrong.

Jim K


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## heaterman (Sep 23, 2013)

Jim K in PA said:


> The other thing to be aware of is the height limit for a vertical flue with a GARN.  I believe the fan in the Jr. is the same as the 1500/2000, so should have similar flow specs.  The limit is 18' above the base of the unit to the top of the flue.  HM - please correct me if I have this wrong.
> 
> Jim K



I believe you are correct Jim.


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## Holley (Sep 26, 2013)

heaterman said:


> I believe you are correct Jim.


I generally use 22 feet from the base as a flue height limit and have a number of units out there operating with those lenghts with no difficulties.  Dectra will also set up any GARN with an 8" rather than 6" Duratech breech fitting and we have several units in our area with 8" flue pipe running with 30 to 35 foot flue heights.  I suspect that the Jr. will breath OK  with somewhat longer flue lengths than we have been using for the 1500s and 2000s in that it is using the same flue size and has a reduced firing rate


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## willyswagon (Sep 27, 2013)

Holley said:


> I generally use 22 feet from the base as a flue height limit and have a number of units out there operating with those lenghts with no difficulties.  Dectra will also set up any GARN with an 8" rather than 6" Duratech breech fitting and we have several units in our area with 8" flue pipe running with 30 to 35 foot flue heights.  I suspect that the Jr. will breath OK  with somewhat longer flue lengths than we have been using for the 1500s and 2000s in that it is using the same flue size and has a reduced firing rate


 
 So am I to take from your post that you are an installer? If so do you know of any in Atlantic Canada?


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## MaineGuy (Sep 27, 2013)

Holley said:


> I generally use 22 feet from the base as a flue height limit and have a number of units out there operating with those lenghts with no difficulties.  Dectra will also set up any GARN with an 8" rather than 6" Duratech breech fitting and we have several units in our area with 8" flue pipe running with 30 to 35 foot flue heights.  I suspect that the Jr. will breath OK  with somewhat longer flue lengths than we have been using for the 1500s and 2000s in that it is using the same flue size and has a reduced firing rate


 
I'm going to guess your the guy I spent like 2 hours talking to at the common ground fair last friday afternoon.  Thanks for answering all my questions.  Hopefully if all goes as planned I'll be contacting you next spring.  For a Garn Jr.


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## Holley (Sep 27, 2013)

willyswagon said:


> So am I to take from your post that you are an installer? If so do you know of any in Atlantic Canada?


I'm the factory rep for New England and Atlantic Canada.  We don't do installations but work pretty closely with installers.  I believe that we have five units in NS and at least one in NB.  We are currently working on a design for space and wood kiln heating for a project on Cape Breton.


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## Holley (Sep 27, 2013)

MaineGuy said:


> I'm going to guess your the guy I spent like 2 hours talking to at the common ground fair last friday afternoon.  Thanks for answering all my questions.  Hopefully if all goes as planned I'll be contacting you next spring.  For a Garn Jr.


That would be me  .  It was good talking with you.


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## heaterman (Mar 15, 2014)

SolarAndWood said:


> That's a pretty compelling package especially if it could serve as the tank for my planned 1000 sq ft drainback system.  Is it significantly cheaper than the 1500?




I don't know if you have done your project yet but I just talked with my accountant about using a Garn as a solar storage tank in order to gain the 30% tax credit for solar equipment.
She said if the Garn is legitimately used to store heat from the solar thermal system it would indeed qualify for the tax credit. 
I would check with a local CPA on this for a second opinion but the sheet she gave me from the IRS clearly states that the tax credit covers storage connected to a solar panel.
This is a big deal.


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## MaineGuy (Mar 15, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I don't have any solar right now.  I'm guessing solar collectors for 1000 gallons wouldn't be cheap. I guess if it was 30 percent of the cost of a Garn Jr they would be free?


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## heaterman (Mar 15, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> Thanks for the info. I don't have any solar right now.  I'm guessing solar collectors for 1000 gallons wouldn't be cheap.* I guess if it was 30 percent of the cost of a Garn Jr they would be free?*




Bingo.


Talking with my heat pump supplier this week and he said they have come out with a few restrictions on what the credit covers in that area. He told me of a couple customers who had 5 acre ponds dug to lay HP coils in and at first the tax credit was covering even the cost of that


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## Buzz Saw (Mar 15, 2014)

heaterman said:


> I don't know if you have done your project yet but I just talked with my accountant about using a Garn as a solar storage tank in order to gain the 30% tax credit for solar equipment.



Any idea how long this will last? Is this a one year deal or will it make it to 2017?   If this stays true it's a no brainer for me.


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## heaterman (Mar 15, 2014)

Tax credits expire 2016.

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F


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## MaineGuy (Mar 16, 2014)

So it's a tax credit not a rebate.  So it's not really 30 percent of the cost of a Garn. You just get to write off 30 percent. Which is a big difference.  Because you're actually only getting about 15 percent of 30 percent?


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## Fred61 (Mar 16, 2014)

No, a tax credit is truly a credit. A tax deduction allows you to write off the cost but your savings only amounts to the percentage of tax you pay. There is one thing you must watch for. Although most here don't fall into this category, you must be liable to the IRS for taxes before you can get your credit. (It is deducted from your tax liability).

What has been happening recently is that a senior couple decide to purchase a new car and the aggressive sales person uses a sales pitch telling them that if they buy a Prius they will get X amount from the government. The problem is that the elderly couple usually owe little or no taxes so they end up paying the full price. I suspect that the sales people are ignorant of this situation.


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## Buzz Saw (Mar 16, 2014)

Since there is no ash door I'm guessing you just shovel the ashed out from the big door on front?    Where does the fresh air enter the firebox?


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## MaineGuy (Mar 16, 2014)

Fred61 said:


> No, a tax credit is truly a credit. A tax deduction allows you to write off the cost but your savings only amounts to the percentage of tax you pay. There is one thing you must watch for. Although most here don't fall into this category, you must be liable to the IRS for taxes before you can get your credit. (It is deducted from your tax liability).
> 
> What has been happening recently is that a senior couple decide to purchase a new car and the aggressive sales person uses a sales pitch telling them that if they buy a Prius they will get X amount from the government. The problem is that the elderly couple usually owe little or no taxes so they end up paying the full price. I suspect that the sales people are ignorant of this situation.


 
Thanks for explaining this.  Seems like there's always some stipulation that disqualifies me for most tax credits so I guess I never really knew how they affect the taxes you pay.  Thanks I learned something today.


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## bhanks55 (Mar 16, 2014)

heaterman said:


> Tax credits expire 2016.
> 
> http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F


This stipulates at least HALF the dwellings heat must be derived for by the solar heat. Am I reading this correctly? Is this reasonable to obtain with something like that in the farm application?


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## jebatty (Mar 17, 2014)

Also, "Solar water heating property must be certified by SRCC." Maybe using a Garn Jr for solar hot water storage will provide a new form of "heat" in the form of a tax audit. Unless of course, Garn has obtained SRCC certification.


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## mike van (Mar 17, 2014)

Buzz Saw said:


> Since there is no ash door I'm guessing you just shovel the ashed out from the big door on front?    Where does the fresh air enter the firebox?


Every two days I take two shovelfuls of ash out, into an old ash box from a Harman.   Fresh air comes in through a dedicated 7" pipe to the outside.


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## MaineGuy (Mar 17, 2014)

jebatty said:


> Also, "Solar water heating property must be certified by SRCC." Maybe using a Garn Jr for solar hot water storage will provide a new form of "heat" in the form of a tax audit. Unless of course, Garn has obtained SRCC certification.


 
Yea I think I'll try and keep the government out of my project.  Usually ends up being cheaper in the long run.  I there are some other incentives in Maine that I may be able to use but some require a certified installer, and that alone would cost me more than the rebate.  Since I plan on installing the system myself.  They also have low interest loans for heating upgrades but this too needs a certified installer, I think it will be less expensive just to take care of it myself and keep the government out of it.


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## flyingcow (Mar 17, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> Yea I think I'll try and keep the government out of my project.  Usually ends up being cheaper in the long run.  I there are some other incentives in Maine that I may be able to use but some require a certified installer, and that alone would cost me more than the rebate.  Since I plan on installing the system myself.  They also have low interest loans for heating upgrades but this too needs a certified installer, I think it will be less expensive just to take care of it myself and keep the government out of it.



But it might not hurt to call Efficiency of Maine. Don't discount it right off.


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Mar 17, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> Yea I think I'll try and keep the government out of my project.  Usually ends up being cheaper in the long run.  I there are some other incentives in Maine that I may be able to use but some require a certified installer, and that alone would cost me more than the rebate.  Since I plan on installing the system myself.  They also have low interest loans for heating upgrades but this too needs a certified installer, I think it will be less expensive just to take care of it myself and keep the government out of it.


I have not been able to take advantage of any deal either. D.I.Y. customers are mostly ignored now a days. A term called "in kind services" needs to added to these incentives.


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## Karl_northwind (Mar 17, 2014)

jebatty said:


> Also, "Solar water heating property must be certified by SRCC." Maybe using a Garn Jr for solar hot water storage will provide a new form of "heat" in the form of a tax audit. Unless of course, Garn has obtained SRCC certification.



I won't argue about the language, but that has been regularly interpreted to mean the collectors, and only the collectors.


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## Karl_northwind (Mar 17, 2014)

bhanks55 said:


> This stipulates at least HALF the dwellings heat must be derived for by the solar heat. Am I reading this correctly? Is this reasonable to obtain with something like that in the farm application?



the language is specifically referring to domestic consumption, which any reasonable sized array will do.  Solar has been my primary trade for the last decade and a half, solid fuel in the last 5 years.


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## flyingcow (Mar 17, 2014)

Just a thought. My Tarm got a 30% tax incentive up to $1500 cap. With the Garn can you double down one incentive for boiler and one for solar storage? Might get lucky.....


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## MaineGuy (Mar 17, 2014)

NE WOOD BURNER said:


> I have not been able to take advantage of any deal either. D.I.Y. customers are mostly ignored now a days. A term called "in kind services" needs to added to these incentives.


 
I'm suspecting that a lot of these incentives are backed by Product vendors and installers lobbyists.  I'm sure the government isn't footing the whole bill.  I suspect someone's pocket got lined to have it worded the way it is worded.


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## Karl_northwind (Mar 18, 2014)

MaineGuy said:


> I'm suspecting that a lot of these incentives are backed by Product vendors and installers lobbyists.  I'm sure the government isn't footing the whole bill.  I suspect someone's pocket got lined to have it worded the way it is worded.



also to keep people from peddling garbage that didn't work and fell apart in a couple years.  the SRCC listed equipment (panels) has to go thru a bunch of durability tests and uniform output tests in different conditions.  Remember how much of the 1980's solar equipment lasted?  lots of it is still out there running (the panels on my house are 1980's vintage) and a huge amount of it was garbage and went into the dump after a few years. 

karl


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Mar 18, 2014)

Karl_northwind said:


> also to keep people from peddling garbage that didn't work and fell apart in a couple years.


maybe in regards to this solar program. State run programs: not always!


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## Buzz Saw (Mar 18, 2014)

mike van said:


> Fresh air comes in through a dedicated 7" pipe to the outside.




Where does it enter the firebox?  the front I would assume?

Edit:  do some reading and you can answer your own question
http://www.garn.com/how-garn-works-full/


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## NE WOOD BURNER (Mar 18, 2014)

http://www.garn.com/how-garn-works-full/

Ha Ha! you edit before I post


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## mike van (Mar 19, 2014)

Buzz Saw said:


> Where does it enter the firebox?  the front I would assume?
> 
> Edit:  do some reading and you can answer your own question
> http://www.garn.com/how-garn-works-full/


I never saw those pics before, lot nicer than I could draw!


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