# Impressed with the Daikin ductless Heat Pump



## Amaralluis

Got a nasty dump of snow these past couple days and the Daikin Heat Pump has worked flawlessly and kept the house warm. Very impressed so far with this system.
Even more impressed today when I was finally able to be outside without being attacked by the wind and the snow to check the outside unit and to see a that it has a wall of ice on the intake side and yet somehow it still sucks the air and extracts the heat.
Pretty amazing technology considering. 
It's -6.5C outside and its still pumping heat.


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## woodgeek

I'm glad the HP is working out for you.  I assume that you keep the outdoor unit dug out from snow and that the unit is defrosting itself as needed.


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## Amaralluis

The unit does deforst automatically. I found out that the maximum time that it is in defrosting mode is 7 minutes. It doesnt have a heating coil to defrost, just uses the compressor and stops the fan until the defrost is complete. Aparently it also has a switch that increases the defrosting temperature to speed up the defrosting.
I didnt need to dug out for the unit as it is high enough from the ground to prevent it. It is on the windy side thou, I might have to get a wind baffle to help with the defrost because the windbaffle prevents the wind to go thru the fan to the coils keeping it colder and thus making the deforst longer.

Like I said pretty amazing technology.


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## woodchip

This is something I have considered getting, and for one very important reason. Over here, we have waves of mild and cold weather during winter, and more than one ocassion I have found some areas of the house get quite cool when it's about 16f outside. However, within a couple of days it is about 50f outside. 

I was considering getting a heat pump to switch on when the outside temp goes up, but if they manage to extract heat even when it's as cold as you describe, one may well be a good investment. 

Do you notice a significant difference in running costs when it's colder outside?

Thanks for a really interesting thread just when this was going through my mind...........


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## AK13

This is the only heating system that I would put into a house (besides a wood stove) unless I had NG on the street.  The technology jump in these new VRF heat pumps is amazing.  And you get a full air conditioning system as an added bonus.  Daikin and Mitsubishi both make some really nice heat pumps.  

Someday I'd like to swap out our oil fired furnace for one of these systems.


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## Highbeam

But you have to look at a fairly ugly inside unit that includes the coil, and blower. Cost is pretty high too.


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## AK13

Highbeam said:
			
		

> But you have to look at a fairly ugly inside unit that includes the coil, and blower. Cost is pretty high too.



No you don't.  They make ducted air handler style units that you can install with a completely concealed look if you don't want to see a unit.  You can get units that will drop in as a direct replacement for a forced hot air system.  

They are pricey though.  And I wouldn't use one in an old drafty house either because pick-up times are fairly slow so you really can't do much setback.


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## Amaralluis

Got my hydro bill for mid nov to mid Dec and the cost of the heat pump is anywhere between $30-$40CAD.
Its hard for me to get more accurate numbers because one of my teens moved back home in August and the hydro has not been consistent (although its alot higher, what the heck is she doing?) so I cant get an consistent difference from last year, but extrapolating the numbers I think I got it pretty close.
Compared to heating with pellets, at the cost of $6.00/bag theres no way I would have only used 5 bags to heat the house for 30 days. 
Usually one bag would last 1.5 to perhaps 2 days at best.
But the really cold days just started so I will have to wait to see the bill next month to see what the damage is.


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## Highbeam

Young women are hot water hogs. Between all of the various bathing rituals and the laundry. 

I have to ask... if you connect a mini split to an air handler unit and then duct the heat to rooms then why on earth don't you just install a regular heat pump unit?


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## Pilgrimfarm

I installed a 23 seer Grunaire mini split this summer in my new house.  There were a few reasons I opted for a mini split over ducted system.  Efficiency is the main reason.  The compressor is a variable speed with inverter dc compressor.  Rather than running full on or full of as does a standard heat pump, the compressor will kick back and run really slow and just barely put out cool or heat, compared to a regular system which is either full on or full off.    When there is a demand for heat of cool, the compressor and the fan speed up and either raise or lower the temps.  They are much less expensive than what you would pay for a ducted system and as far as I know you will not find a ducted system with variable speed compressor, you will find them with a variable speed fan.  As for appearance, the new units can be had many different ways.  LG has one now that is a picture frame on the wall, they are expensive.  I went with a stainless looking front on mine and in my modern remodel it looks just fine.  I will take it any day for the savings on the environment and on my wallet!


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## begreen

Thanks for the update. I have a friend that put in a large Daikin system in an old farmhouse last month. She loves it too. When in defrost mode, the compressor runs in reverse or A/C mode, but it shuts off the fan so that cold air doesn't blow back into the house.

FYI, I have friends that have a Sanyo and another that has a Fujitsu unit. All installed this year. Both are doing very well. They are virtually silent in operation and very efficient heaters. Of the 3, the Fujitsu is the smallest (12Kbtu) but also the most impressive. I saw it in action at 14F about a month ago. The outside unit was exceptionally quiet and the inside unit was almost silent. But when you held your hand in front of it, the heat was pouring out. It's pretty amazing technology.


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## samandlillie

Yes these ductless heat pumps are pricey,about $4000 for my Fujitsu 18000 BTU installed here in Nova Scotia. BUT,there is no heat loss up the chimney(20% or more with pellets),no messy weekly cleaning which I had been doing for the last 18 years with pellets,air is filtered and purified instead of polluted with combustion products inside and out,no worry about pellet shortages  and most importantly the efficiencely of  200% to 400% depending on outside temp. My payback will be in approx. 3.5 years.My only concern is when the temp. is around freezing point, the unit goes into the defrost mode more frequently because the winters in Nova Scotia are a damp cold. At temp. colder than freezing,the colder air holds less moisture and therefore less defrosting cycles.I wish there was a way to installed a small radiant heater (waterproof) in front of the outside compressor that could be turned on to hasten the defrost cycle when it occurs(seen inside by blinking light). My house is well insulated but it is a 2 story open concept cape cod and the heat naturally flows upstairs and the heat pump is actually heating over 2000 sq. ft. Happy New Year to all


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## Amaralluis

Like I said impressive technology.
The unit has been installed since November 1st and I have not used my pellet stove since, despite three severe storms last month.
Very happy with the Daikin up until now.


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## ivanhoe

bumping this thread back up as i'm leaning for a HP myself and would like some feedback. i'm looking at daikin and mitsubishi for now. i live in northern ontario where it gets to -30c to -40c at times. less so now with global warming. i was also considering a warmer place for the outdoor condenser unit to help on the lower temperatures. a nice big black shed to absorb the heat during the sunny days and block the wind might help some. i could crank the pellet stove during the coldest days.


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## Amaralluis

When you say -30 to -40 are you refering at wind chill temps or realt temps?
The Daikin unit works up to -20C realtemp but to be honest it will just blow warm air. It will be not enough to keep any warm temp in the house.
To make things worse defrosting happens constantly and the unit takes around 7 minutes or so to cycle it.
At those temps its a killer and the house will cool down fairly quickly.
But above -20C the unit has no trouble keeping my house toasty.
Last year I only had to turn the pellet stove twice because of low temps that the unit couldnt keep up.
It was great.


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## ivanhoe

Amaralluis said:


> When you say -30 to -40 are you refering at wind chill temps or realt temps?
> The Daikin unit works up to -20C realtemp but to be honest it will just blow warm air. It will be not enough to keep any warm temp in the house.
> To make things worse defrosting happens constantly and the unit takes around 7 minutes or so to cycle it.
> At those temps its a killer and the house will cool down fairly quickly.
> But above -20C the unit has no trouble keeping my house toasty.
> Last year I only had to turn the pellet stove twice because of low temps that the unit couldnt keep up.
> It was great.


thx for the feedback. it's real temp but only happens on a few occasions. i'm still in the homework progress on evaluating the economics of a heat pump in ontario's high hydro rates...


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## samandlillie

ivanhoe said:


> thx for the feedback. it's real temp but only happens on a few occasions. i'm still in the homework progress on evaluating the economics of a heat pump in ontario's high hydro rates...


For the last 3 years with a Fujitsu heat pump (15000BTU), my electric bill increased on average by 3000 KWH per year  .Before that I was burning about 200 bags of pellets.Extra cost of electricity was about $350 and pellets in Nova Scotia was $1200. I am saving about $850 per year. These are real world figures based on the average costs of the last 3 years.No stove to clean(HarmanXXV), no pellets to haul(Eastern Embers).


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## Amaralluis

My annual cost for the heat pump is around $350-$400 as well.
The savings are substantial and the convenience is just priceless.
Best investment Ive made in awhile.


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## tap

samandlillie said:


> For the last 3 years with a Fujitsu heat pump (15000BTU), my electric bill increased on average by 3000 KWH per year  .Before that I was burning about 200 bags of pellets.Extra cost of electricity was about $350 and pellets in Nova Scotia was $1200. I am saving about $850 per year. These are real world figures based on the average costs of the last 3 years.No stove to clean(HarmanXXV), no pellets to haul(Eastern Embers).


Samandlillie, you are "down the road" from where I live.  I am starting the research to install a HP both upstairs and down and have yet to decide on whether to go with two single units each with its own head; or, one compressor and two heads.  Any suggestions?


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## DBoon

Hi tap, I've been deep into this research myself.  One head per outside unit is the most efficient way to go.  And by looking at all the prices I've been quoted, It seems that a dedicated compressor with each head isn't much more expensive anyway, and there is some built-in redundancy if one of the compressors failed. 

I was quoted some pretty high installation costs for a one compressor two head system, and I think part of the reason why was that the piping runs from one compressor to the 2nd head would be pretty long and would have to go through the house in a less than ideal way.  Once I got it down to a single head/compressor with a straightforward piping run 8' up the side of the house to the head, installation estimates started getting more reasonable.  

I'm likely getting one 15-18kBTU system to start with, and may add another 9kBTU system later in another part of the house.


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