# Defective Stihl Chainsaw Chain



## BJ64 (Apr 3, 2012)

In my area there seems to be a vast quantity of defective Stihl chainsaw chain. 

The defect is that the chain cutters (teeth) are ground is such a way that you are unable to sharpen the chain with a standard round file. 

While I was at the dealer I noticed and pointed out the all the newer replacement chains as well as all the new chains mounted on new saws for sale had this same defect.  This prompted my dealer to call other dealers in the area who reported the same issue with their inventories.

This defect has been found several sizes and types of chain.

If you are buying Stihl brand chain, be sure that you are able to correctly insert the proper sized round file into the cutters before you purchase the chain.

I was unaware of this problem when I bought my chain. Even after having the chain sharped one time at the dealer with a bench grinder, I am still unable to insert the proper sized round file at the correct depth for proper sharpening. This is a real vexing problem when you are out in the field and want to touch up the chain.

At this time I am not sure if the dealer has talked to the field rep about this issue.


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## ScotO (Apr 3, 2012)

Haven't had to buy chain in years.  Thats some good info to have, thanks for sharing, BJ64...


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## MasterMech (Apr 4, 2012)

You have a bunch of square ground chain showing up out there?  Usually that's labeled Rapid Super Klassic.  Could be they got a few of those chains in RSC boxes.


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## BJ64 (Apr 10, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> You have a bunch of square ground chain showing up out there? Usually that's labeled Rapid Super Klassic. Could be they got a few of those chains in RSC boxes.


 
No they are not the square ground.  These teeth seem to have been ground with a very thin grinder that leaves a "J hook" looking cut. There will be a hump left in the area where the file needs to pass through. 

My work schedule is all bonkers right now, but I will get and post pics as soon as I can.


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## Roger Phelps (Apr 13, 2012)

Bobby, Roger Phelps from STIHL here. I had our tech services and field reps look in to this and we have no indications of faulty chain in the field. We obviously would like to see any photos that you have to see what you are looking at, or have your dealer show the chain to our field rep just in case we are missing something.

With a STIHL chain a new cutter does not exactly match the profile of a file radius. When it is first sharpened with a file the profile will then exactly match your file.

It sounds like you have experience filing chain so I offer the following resources only in case you have not seen them.
http://www.stihlusa.com/information/STIHL-Sharp-Advice-Saw-Chain-Guide-Bars.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvcCh2XqEPc&list=PLBFAA26AE81AE467A&index=6&feature=plpp_video

Hope this helps.  We take a lot of pride in the manufacturing of our chain which involves a lot of extra steps that others don’t take and so want to be sure you are happy with the performance.


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## jeff_t (Apr 13, 2012)

Welcome, Mr.Phelps. We have several stove manufacturers represented here, but nobody from a saw manufacturer, as far as I know. Hopefully we can look forward to some good input.

I looked at the thread because I know a Roger Phelps, but you aren't him.


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## Roger Phelps (Apr 13, 2012)

Looking forward to joining the discussion and providing assistance whenever possible.


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## surviverguy (Apr 13, 2012)

Roger Phelps said:


> Looking forward to joining the discussion and providing assistance whenever possible.[/quote ]It's great to have more Stihl resources....Roger Phelps- welcome to Hearth.com!


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## TreePointer (Apr 14, 2012)

When you post pictures, please also give the full model name of the chain and make and size of files being used.

My initial thought was what Roger Phelps mentioned about new chains and the first filing. My second thought was about the confusion regarding 3/8 pitch chiain and 3/8 low profile chain, which take different round files.


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## MasterMech (Apr 14, 2012)

Roger Phelps said:


> Looking forward to joining the discussion and providing assistance whenever possible.


 

Holy cow!  A real factory rep on here.    Roger, I hope you're ready.....


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## amateur cutter (Apr 15, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Holy cow! A real factory rep on here.  Roger, I hope you're ready.....


 

I'll second that, great to have you aboard! FWIW I'm a die hard Stihl head.


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## BJ64 (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow, this is getting interesting. Welcome to the forum Roger! Sorry for the late reply, I didn't think the issue was getting anywhere so I didn't ever check back.

To bring everyone up to date. The problem has been acknowledged by two Stihl dealers in Pryor, Oklahoma. The problem has been discovered in retail package chain and chain on spools. Some of the .325" chain may have this same problem, I'll investigate on this more tomorrow. I was able to talk to Stihl tech support on Thursday, the 12th at about 14:45 central time. I was told that they had been contacted by both dealers in Pryor and that the problem would be investigated.

The chain in question is 3/8" pitch, .063" gauge, "yellow link" - 36 RSC 3 seems to be the number for it.

The problem with the chain is a hump between the leading guide of the cutter (the part that sets the depth of cut) and the cutting edge of the cutter. This is similar to the hump pictured in this harvester chain cutter.





The hump in the chain in question is a bit taller and much closer to the cutting edge. I have a theory that the grinding tool used to shape the cutting edge was too thin or set too far back. This hump prevents the file from being inserted anywhere near the correct depth according to the file guide included with the sharpening kit (Part # 5605 007 1029).

In contrast this is similar what the cutter is supposed to look like on my chain.




Taking a detailed picture of chainsaw chain is not easy to do with a phone camera. We did manage to get a decent picture with one of the dealers I-Phone and he was going to sent it to Stihl tech support. I'm not sure if he has done that yet. I do plan on borrowing and SLR camera to take pictures of the chain in question tomorrow.

I do have a question. Is there a lot number that may be found on the cardboard spools used for bulk chain?

Pic credits --- Pictures from Stihl's website used without permission.

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RS


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## BJ64 (Apr 16, 2012)

Here are pictures of the problem.  
https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachm...1/?temp_hash=5cb383d7c46bd2aea5e2c9cedae6a366
The same hump was found on two spools of different types of 3/8" chain and in several retail packages of 3/8" chain. 




I also have samples from the two spools of chain and one unopened package of retail chain ready to ship to tech support as soon as I have an address. 
I hope this helps.

















.....


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## Flatbedford (Apr 17, 2012)

Interesting. Looks like something was just a bit out of whack when those were cut.


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## HittinSteel (Apr 17, 2012)

Made during Oktoberfest?


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## Flatbedford (Apr 17, 2012)

Maybe the day after?


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## Jags (Apr 17, 2012)

Watching this thread with interest.  It does look like the machining process might have been a bit out of whack.

And welcome, Roger.  I hope you are on the frequent flyer program here.  Did you check in with Craig - there are (were, in the old forum) special places for VIP types to congregate.  Don't know if that still holds true.


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## BrianK (Apr 17, 2012)

BJ64 said:


> Here are pictures of the problem.
> The same hump was found on two spools of different types of 3/8" chain and in several retail packages of 3/8" chain
> 
> .....


I noticed something similar (but not nearly as pronounced) sharpening my MS 250 last week (the same areas on the chain on my new MS 290 Farm Boss were perfectly flat):


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## smokinj (Apr 17, 2012)

Nothing That I could not fix in a heart beat.....Now 50 percent discount would make me a buyer.


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## wkpoor (Apr 17, 2012)

That little hump is common when filing square chain. I just take a rotory file and carve it out. Don't really see why it can't be hand filed out. Wouldn't want to pay full price for chain ground that way though.


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## BJ64 (Apr 17, 2012)

BrianK said:


> I noticed something similar (but not nearly as pronounced) sharpening my MS 250 last week (the same areas on the chain on my new MS 290 Farm Boss were perfectly flat):


 
Good job on the photos!  I had to put a "like" on that.

We had similar observations on various .325 chains here also. Since the hump seemed small enough to allow proper sharpening in the field, we decided not to raise an alert regarding .325 chain.  I think the hump is annoying because it does make the sharpening job a bit more difficult, but - as your photo's show - it can be done.

On the other hand, the hump in the 3/8" chains was deemed excessive because we could not get the round file down to proper depth to get a correct edge on the cutter.  I tried to file the hump away and I couldn't do it without getting the file into the cutting edge or the leading depth guide and I didn't have all day to spend on it either.

I have taken the chain back to the shop twice to have sharpened on the bench grinder.  This time I think the cutter is ground back far enough to allow sharpening with a file which is good.  The bad thing is now about 1/4th of my chain is gone after only two sharpenings.


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## BrianK (Apr 17, 2012)

BJ64 said:


> Good job on the photos! I had to put a "like" on that.


 
Thanks. Its amazing what you can do with these stupid little iPhones and MS Paint (to enlarge and crop the third photo).



BJ64 said:


> We had similar observations on various .325 chains here also. Since the hump seemed small enough to allow proper sharpening in the field, we decided not to raise an alert regarding .325 chain. I think the hump is annoying because it does make the sharpening job a bit more difficult, but - as your photo's show - it can be done.
> 
> On the other hand, the hump in the 3/8" chains was deemed excessive because we could not get the round file down to proper depth to get a correct edge on the cutter. I tried to file the hump away and I couldn't do it without getting the file into the cutting edge or the leading depth guide and I didn't have all day to spend on it either.
> 
> I have taken the chain back to the shop twice to have sharpened on the bench grinder. This time I think the cutter is ground back far enough to allow sharpening with a file which is good. The bad thing is now about 1/4th of my chain is gone after only two sharpenings.


 
Actually, I was having trouble with the carbide on my new Timberline sharpener riding up out of the proper depth when I was filing the left facing cutters on the MS250. It was popping up and out and riding on the front edge of the cutter. In retrospect, I thought it was just my own learning curve, because once I tightened the chain down tighter, and switched to the Farm Boss, I didn't have any trouble. But now I'm wondering if that ridge was making it harder to keep the carbide in where it belonged.


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## BJ64 (Apr 18, 2012)

wkpoor said:


> That little hump is common when filing square chain. I just take a rotory file and carve it out. Don't really see why it can't be hand filed out. Wouldn't want to pay full price for chain ground that way though.


 
I was thinking along the same line Wkpoor and SmokinJ about using a Dremel tool on the hump, but you guys make a good point about "50% off" and "full price". 

Should I admit that I bought two of these darn chains?

I might consider selling the other one for half my money back if somebody wanted to take a rotary tool to the hump, but look closely at BrianK's third photo.  I'm not familiar with the Timberline sharpener with the carbide tool that BrianK used,  but it took the face off the cutting edge to where it is almost 90 degrees to the wood while the hump seems untouched.  I had the same results when I tried to gouge the hump out with a round file.  It took the face off the cutter while the hump only had a scratch. 

I'm not so sure that half price would be a good deal.


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## BrianK (Apr 18, 2012)

BJ64 said:


> look closely at BrianK's third photo. I'm not familiar with the Timberline sharpener with the carbide tool that BrianK used, but it took the face off the cutting edge to where it is almost 90 degrees to the wood while the hump seems untouched.


 
The MS250 was my first time using the Timberline, and I set it up so it just barely shined up the cutter. I was purposely being very ginger with it, not aggressive.

DexterDay posted a good photo of the Timberline on the "Group Buy" thread:


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2012)

Think that might be pretty easy to zap that hump with a grinder no?  Wouldn't have to touch the cutter either.


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## BrianK (Apr 18, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Think that might be pretty easy to zap that hump with a grinder no? Wouldn't have to touch the cutter either.


 
I could easily take it off with my Dremel, no problem.

But is there any reason to? I guess if I couldn't get the Timberline carbide in there at all, I'd need to do something with it.


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2012)

Once you can get a file/cutter in there ok then that little hump will have little, if any, effect on the chain.


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## BJ64 (Apr 18, 2012)

BrianK said:


> I could easily take it off with my Dremel, no problem.
> 
> But is there are reason to? I guess if I couldn't get the Timberline carbide in there at all, I'd need to do something with it.


 
It looks certain that if the Timberline ever got on the hump, it would make hash out of it. That is one mean looking rig!  

I'll have to retract some of what I said in post #23.  If a person could get the chain at half price it could be made to work and be a good deal if one already had the tools. 

On the other hand, a person could get a cheaper chain at a lawn and garden store that works fine right out of the box. I might have to do that if the matter is not cleared up by the time I need another chain.

It would be best if Stihl fixes the problem so we could go on like it never happened.


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## HittinSteel (Apr 18, 2012)

BJ64 said:


> I was thinking along the same line Wkpoor and SmokinJ about using a Dremel tool on the hump, but you guys make a good point about "50% off" and "full price".
> 
> Should I admit that I bought two of these darn chains?
> 
> ...


 
Can't you just return it to the dealer for an exchange? If not I'd be looking in to switching to Oregon LGX


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## BJ64 (Apr 18, 2012)

HittinSteel said:


> Can't you just return it to the dealer for an exchange? If not I'd be looking in to switching to Oregon LGX


 
I can return it for refund, and in fact the dealer was going to do that but I had a brain storm and decided to hang onto it for a bit.  If I have to switch to Oregon LGX for a while then it is no big deal - and BTW, thanks for giving me an option to check out if it comes to that.

I was able to talk to Stihl Tech support last Thursday (4-12), they said that they would investigate the matter and I was satisfied with that.  Later I got to thinking about how are they going to be able to investigate this if they don't have a clue where to start.  If I could talk to tech support again or if Roger Phelps would come back and view the thread, I would send them the other retail package and the two samples of roll chain that I have.  That way they would have something to work with.    

Perhaps I should explain my motive for dogging this thing. 

Fist - I don't want anyone to have this problem.  If you are buying chain of any brand, inspect it before you buy it.  The hump in my chain is rather tiny but it is an aggravation to deal with.  If you find a chain with much of a hump, reject it and explain the matter to the dealer.  I'm sure they would rather deal with the field rep  than a few dissatisfied customers.

Second - Stihl has many years and a lot of effort invested in building a reputation.  We can't expect any person or organization to reach perfection, but we do expect them to meat expectations created by the reputation (way to many "-tions" in that line).  When a company messes up, I think somebody needs to point out the problem and give them the chance to fix it.  I suppose this is my turn.

Anyway, that is why I'm hanging on to the other chain for now.


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## MasterMech (Apr 18, 2012)

Try PM'ing Roger.  It should drop an email in his inbox.


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## BJ64 (Apr 19, 2012)

MasterMech said:


> Try PM'ing Roger. It should drop an email in his inbox.


Good idea!


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## Flatbedford (Apr 19, 2012)

Roger seems to have lost interest.


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## Mroverkill (Apr 19, 2012)

roger roger


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## Roger Phelps (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks for the photos. We are looking in to it and hope to get back to you all soon. I do want to check though that the chains were bought at a STIHL dealer.  Had to ask. Again, appreciate the feedback.


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## Roger Phelps (Apr 25, 2012)

P.S., you all will have to have to excuse any lapses.  I travel quite a bit for the company and am not always in the office or have access to the site (my official issues Blackberry is not the best platform to interact).  I assure you I and the rest of the STIHL team are very interested.


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## BJ64 (Apr 26, 2012)

I believe this matter is being properly addressed by Stihl.

Roger has shown the pictures to others at the company and he has requested samples of the chain that I had saved back.

He should have them tomorrow.


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## Roger Phelps (May 2, 2012)

Folks, wanted to close the loop on this topic.  I just got off the phone with the head of saw chain production in Switzerland.  The STIHL RSC3 chain undergoes an extra step in production where the cutting angle is ground by a high-tech machine to produce the absolute best cutting performance for the chain straight out the box.  The byproduct of that process, however, is the little hump that BJ pointed out.  Makes it appear that the 13/64” file doesn’t fit. However that is the proper file, and when it comes time for you to file your chain, a few passes with the file should take the nub off and you are back to regular filing.

I want to thank BJ for bringing this up to us and I hope that I have answered the question. We take a great deal of pride in the production of STIHL chain and take a number of extra steps that our competitor’s don’t.  You can read about all the features of STIHL chain here. http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdfs/WhyBuySawChain.pdf

 I look forward to future conversations with this group.


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## Bocefus78 (May 2, 2012)

Good info! Thanks for staying with this and providing answers to us all Roger!


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## greythorn3 (May 2, 2012)

thst sharpener looks great! wish i hadent bought the hf one now


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