# Englander Auger Motor Failure and Replacement



## NEStoveOwner

Many of you have read about my troubled past in several other threads.  To those who were sympathetic or offered suggestions, thank you.

I posted that I had a Plan B : https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31098/ 



My stove came with a Merkle Korff (MK) Auger Motor.  It can be bought from MK directly for about $73.00.

http://merklekorff.thomasnet.com/vi...nal-gearmotors-thermally-protected?&forward=1

Because i have gone through a LOT of motors i thought there was an issue with the motor design:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/28051/



I made several calls to my stove manufacturer and their answer was buy another motor for ~$130.00.  There has been subsequent communication with them
to do some further investigation on my stove.  But there has yet to be a conversation where i am next to my stove telling them over the phone anything they need
to know.  I needed to do something so i can get my stove running normal again.

My theory still remains that the windings on the MK motors fail.  Mine seem to fail more than most, possibly because i have an insert ?????? I am not sure.

Its going to take a lot to convince me to ever put another Merkle Korff auger motor in my stove so i looked for alternatives.

FYR, the Auger Motor is also called an AC Gearmotor, the electric portion of the gearbox is a C Frame Shaded Pole motor.

I found some on Granger for $82.  http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1LNG2

I think it would have been up to the task, there was one other model with slightly more torque that might have been better.



Next i stumbled upon Gleason Avery (GA)

http://www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html

*They offer a line of pellet stove motors for $79.95.  I took a chance and bought one.  The photo below is a side by side of the two motors.  

The physical design differences:

GA Armature = 1 1/8", MK Armature = 13/16"
GA terminals are soldered, MK terminals are crimped (the pic shows soldered because i did). 
GA has a gasket sealing gearbox halves, MK doesnt
GA uses rivets to secure the two sections of motor frame, MK slides them like a jigsaw
GA uses a sealed bearing, MK uses sintered bronze
GA operating current (no load) = .35A, MK operating current (no load) = .49A - my actual measurements
GA operating temp (no load) = 101F, MK operating temp (no load) = 180F - my actual measurements*

You can order any motor from GA in CW or CCW.  You can also reverse direction yourself by removing the bobbin (windings) and flipping it over.

I installed this motor tonight and just turned the stove on to verify all is okay.  This motor is so unbelievably quiet it isnt even funny.  No more motor hum, grrr noise, or noise resonating through the stove.  I will fire it up tomorrow and report back.

I have offered some of the above info to Englander and encouraged them to look at this as an alternative motor.  It does need to be tested but it should be looked at.  The street price is almost the same, the quality is much better.  If you buy in qty from either supplier the price will come down.

A lot of people bashed me because Mike is a good guy and they think because they have an Englander that works fine, i must be the idiot.  Well my stove doesnt work fine.  I like Mike too but when i started on this investigation Englander (not Mike) wanted me to spend $130 on a $73 motor that i have no confidence in.  Mike has offered to investigate but that hasnt happened yet. I am still going to try and coordinate with Mike.  Id like to see if he can figure if failed motors are the symptom and not the cause.

I did come here looking for answers - some offered answers and thank you.  Those that replied to me without offering suggestions or help, i am not sure why you come here.   I hope this experiment works so that i can share the answer and i am hoping to save anyone who has a MERKLE KORFF motor some money and aggravation.

Thanks


----------



## jtakeman

NEStoveOwner,

Nice write up, I will bet this helps a few people down the road. 

OK, My 2 cents sintered bronze bushings suck. They require lub every so often. I had an old quadra fire that used to make funny noises when it got hot(Merkle auger motor). I too bought a new motor only to have it do it again shortly after. Motor was hot to touch. I would completly disassemble the auger motor and regrease it. I could get maybe 2 months or so out of it. But now having 2 of them made it not bad to deal with.

I will bet if you freshened up the grease at the output shafts your run temp would drop on the Merkle. I found it best to do a complete disassemble and relude. Lasted longer.

But the gleason with ball bearings has to be better. There is less resistance in a ball bearing than a sleeved bushing. I would never call a sleeved bushing a bearing. I would also never us a sleeved bushing in a severe duty application, Unless it was lubed by an oilbath.

You will also find that the convection blower motors will require lubing every so often. Because of the sleeved bushings. I have been working on an upgrade to my bigE's blower motor. The fasco B24220 blower would get loud after a month or so(finally got my dealer to replace it). When my stove is out of warrenty I will replace the POS with a grainger dayton 1TDR6 blower motor that has ball bearings. Then I would only have to lude maybe once a heating season. 

Now that you have provided this info I can order on of these motors too! 

Thanks, Hope I didn't ramble on to much for ya
jay


----------



## webbie

Thanks for sharing.
Yes, as you mention, snide comments and even nice customer service people do not in any way affect physics or mechanics. It will be great if your solution works and I'm sure the Englander and other makers may note the difference.

One problem, however, is that many companies have bean counters who look at every cent - and even though the street prices are similar, the dead OEM wholesale could be different by as much as $5 or more. Take that times 20 or 30,000 stoves per year and you have a "free" $150,000. Then add the replacement motor business - but subtract the few (relatively) that you have to send out under warranty.

I think a longer warranty from pellet stove makers would go a long way toward assuring BOTH better quality (the bean counters look at warranty costs!) and more customer satisfaction. The fact is - proven over and over again - that MOST unsatisfied customers do not make a fuss. Some just buy the parts, others let the stove sit there without use, etc. etc. 

I know this for a fact....having sold many thousands of stoves....made them, imported them, etc. - We had almost NO complaints....maybe a few per year and I KNOW there were a lot more people than that whose stoves were not right. In fact, sometimes we would finally get a complaint after a few years...and I'd ask the customer why they didn't tell us sooner! The answer was usually that they thought it was their fault, etc.

I forget exactly where I heard it, but remember something like "for every customer that complains directly, there are 19 (approx) who do not".


----------



## hearthtools

one of the reasons the gear reduction motors fail is they are designed to be used Horizontal. The gear box flat.

They are mounted at a 25 to 60 deg angle in pellet stoves to it puts more stress on the Armature and the gearbox because the grease will slip down to the bottom of the gear box.


----------



## hearthtools

I find this link to MK interesting.
I pay more that they list for the motors from the Manufacures of the stoves.
I talked to MK a few years ago to buy direct because I sell over 300 a year.
they said I had to buy 500 at a time to buy direct and would not realy work with me.

Time to call them agian.


----------



## NEStoveOwner

jtakeman,  One of the tests i did was to remove the gears in the gear box so that the motor was operating without the load of the gear train on it.  The current draw and the operating temp was the same.  I was trying to see if there was a lot of drag on the motor from the gearbox.

Hearthtools, the part number on my MK is a custom design for Englander.  The specifications on their website (voltage, torque and etc) should be a match for this application.  Even something as simple as CW vs CCW might make for a custom part number.

Webmaster .... I'm in West Mass too.  Small world.

Stove is on its fourth hour of operation and no issues.


----------



## OU812

Thanks for the information!  Some of these dealers jack up parts like you wouldn't believe (over 100% markup) and I am always on the lookout for good parts sources.  I called the Enviro dealer once and he wanted more than double the internet price for an auger motor.  I have also found that a lot of the internet dealers offer fantastic service and issue refunds without a hassle.  I remember calling the dealer for an auger timer not long ago.  He said he would need to look the price up and call me back.  I waited 3 days for his call which never came.  I went online after that and found an auger timer for $40.00 (OEM and more than 1/2 off) and they shipped it to my door in 3 days!


----------



## GVA

On the GA gearmotors I had alot of experience.......

They were almost identical to the MK motor up till recently....
Yes they had oil impregnated bronze, no ball or needle bearings.
the 18 gauge mtw was soldered to the windings
there was a thin gasket similar to the MK.
they had many many failures in the past, but thousands and thousands of Harman stoves have them (the old style) and are still running, as I'm sure is the case of the Englanders...
so from a troubleshooting side one can see 5,000 stoves running strong to 10 that are not to be a stove related problem *if* the same component repeatedly fails...
That is what is *normally* the case.....
It's tough to tell ones skills when there are people that like to jump in and quote things that they don't really understand, and leads the topic astray....
And no I'm not refering to you on this but the people that jumped into the other threads... 
Like Bass???? in this thread.. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/31337/
I still think there is a root cause to you're failures, but hopefully all will be well with the cooler running motor........

FWIW here are the pics of the old version....of the Gleason Avery
notes:
the armature shaft sticks out for mounting of a fan blade to help keep it cool.
the output shaft bushing was changed to a needle bearing correct? (no pic of the front)
Make sure you get the correct RPM for the Englander I think it is 1RPM......Harman is 4RPM
Good luck


----------



## NEStoveOwner

I received a PM for additional part number info on the GA.  Here is a close up of the motor label.

You can see from the date on the label it was built to my order.  The current draw rating is .72 but it only draws the amount stated above.





This motor is spec'd as a 1 RPM motor.  It actually spins at 1.5RPM.  The MK i removed was 1.25 RPM.  The GA is 20% faster but for me it 
isnt an issue.  If RPM is critical in your stove i recommend you measure it and than when you call GA tell them what you need for output - not rated.  

Maybe someone can chime in, is the RPM rating generally lower than actual?


----------



## NEStoveOwner

GVA, iirc yes the output shaft has a needle gearing.  Unfortunately i didnt take a pic.

I noticed that a lot of the Daytons also extend the shaft for fan blade mounting.

When i called GA, they were well aware of MK and their motors.  There was more said but not appropriate for me to repeat.

I'm formerly of the North Shore too (Ipswich) now living in West Mass.


----------



## GVA

RPM would vary on the voltage to the stove verse nameplate voltage... as does current....
Ex: amotor rated at 1.6 amps at 460vac would draw probably 1.4 amps at 480 vac..


----------



## hearthtools

GVA said:
			
		

> On the GA gearmotors I had alot of experience.......
> 
> 
> notes:
> the armature shaft sticks out for mounting of a fan blade to help keep it cool.


I dont see how a cooling fan would help on most pellet stove because the feed times are only 2 seconds on and around 7 seconds on at a time for some others.


----------



## hearthtools

OU812 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the information!  Some of these dealers jack up parts like you wouldn't believe (over 100% markup) and I am always on the lookout for good parts sources.  I called the Enviro dealer once and he wanted more than double the internet price for an auger motor.  I have also found that a lot of the internet dealers offer fantastic service and issue refunds without a hassle.  I remember calling the dealer for an auger timer not long ago.  He said he would need to look the price up and call me back.  I waited 3 days for his call which never came.  I went online after that and found an auger timer for $40.00 (OEM and more than 1/2 off) and they shipped it to my door in 3 days!


who did you get the timer from?


----------



## OU812

You can buy the Infitec (Enviro) timers directly from the distributor here.

http://www.controlsourceintl.com/Scripts/openExtra.asp?extra=1 

They have awesome service and made sure I had the right part when I paced the order.  They also shipped the part the same day!

For Auger motors I like this place which also has great service and fast shipping.

http://www.cshincorporated.com/index.php/cPath/40


----------



## OU812

.


----------



## GVA

hearthtools said:
			
		

> GVA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the GA gearmotors I had alot of experience.......
> 
> 
> notes:
> the armature shaft sticks out for mounting of a fan blade to help keep it cool.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see how a cooling fan would help on most pellet stove because the feed times are only 2 seconds on and around 7 seconds on at a time for some others.
Click to expand...

On the 4rpm harman the input shaft is spinning over 3200rpm. regardless of the cycle times the fan is gonna spin and draw air across the coil while it is running...
or in the case of the lower auger on the englander it is always running..


----------



## Dougsey

hearthtools said:
			
		

> GVA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the GA gearmotors I had alot of experience.......
> 
> 
> notes:
> the armature shaft sticks out for mounting of a fan blade to help keep it cool.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see how a cooling fan would help on most pellet stove because the feed times are only 2 seconds on and around 7 seconds on at a time for some others.
Click to expand...


The auger on my Accentra runs for a minimum of 7 seconds and will run for 20 - 30 seconds a lot of the time 
so I think the fan does help (on Harmans at least).


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Just checking in.

GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues.

No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures.  Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Just checking in again.  

GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues. 

No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures.  Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.


----------



## donbryce

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> Just checking in again. GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues. No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures.  Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.



I've been following your threads, and if I may, please comment on the following summary, which I believe captures the 4 available auger motors mentioned in your posts which will work without modification on the Englander 25-PDVC and PDV:

MFG........................Part#..........................On-line sales....................Price.......URL
Merkle Korff............U-047040................Englander........................$130.98 .... http://tinyurl.com/dmom2p
Merkle Korff............8211.......................Merkle Korff......................$73.18 .... http://tinyurl.com/averwq
Dayton...................1LNG2A...................Grainger...........................$89.00 .... http://tinyurl.com/cftraf
Gleason Avery........A901.......................Gleason Avery...................$79.95 .... http://tinyurl.com/cbc9ze

I assume that you're happy with the A901 and would recommend it over the others. I couldn't find the part number on the MK (model 4515UI-050) in my 25-PDVC on their website, so assume that it's assigned to the 'custom' motor supplied to Englander. 

Here are a few Q's:

(1) Is the MK U-047040 identical to the MK 8211, or does the rotation need to be changed, or the output shaft modified to fit the auger? 

(2) I re-read your posts and cannot find where I swear you noted that one of these motors was available at a reduced price for the motor portion only, that is, without gearbox...was that the Dayton?

(3) Are any of/all of these motors easily fitted to the gearbox on the MK motor in the Englander?

 Bottom line here is that it would seem from everything I've read that the gearboxes on the Englander MK motors are bulletproof, but the motor portion is not, so the best _cost effective solution_ to a failed auger motor would be attaching a GA A901 motor to the MK gearbox supplied with the stove, no? 

And the cheapest would be fitting whatever of these is available without the gearbox to the MK/Englander gearbox?

EDIT Feb.25/2009: I emailed Grainger, and the Dayton 1LNG2 motor is not available as a separate part.  Also got a reply from Merkle Korff re. availability of motor only for their 8211, and it is also not sold separate.


----------



## mikiet

i just purchased my 1st auger replacement motor, thanks for info nestoveowner, what a headache researching this, i have a englander, and the cheapest i found was a 100. bucks at a local eletric motor repair shop,
i had mine for 4 yrs running no problem, and yet still the motor was not totally cooked,  i believe from the high heat transfer, the winding wire to clip became brittle and contact was broken and the small shaft end that spins 3k rpm was dried and seized, 10 min later some fine emery, oil/grease ,soldering and the motor was working, but , i still purchased another from gleason avery, they are close to my area,look more beefier, and are reasonabley priced
like other posts, these motors should be maintenanced regularly, but i still feel theres a overly priced market for these!
u guys should mix the corn, keeps augers clean, no build up


----------



## packerfan

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> Just checking in again.
> 
> GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues.
> 
> No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures.  Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.



Just wondering if this is still doing fine for ya in case I need a replacement sometime this year.


----------



## krooser

Great info... there's more than one way to fix a problem stove.


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Just checking back in.  Gleason Avery is still running fine.


----------



## packerfan

Thanks for the update


----------



## leezah

Thanks for putting this up here. It helped me a lot since i'm a new stove owner.



Regards,
Liza
Placement financier


----------



## Arnold

*Found a OEM motor & some other Englander parts on Ebay here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Englander-Pelle...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414a0af1c0

That was the cheapest one.........there are about 6 other motors listed.........not sure if they're the heavy duty ones or not.*


----------



## NEStoveOwner

No gasket between the gear box halves and shaft end is exposed.  Id say its a MK.



Mike, did you every pass the GA info on to the lab guys at Englander to do a comparison?  
That was your last PM to me in Jan 2009.  Sorry if you posted the results and I missed it.


----------



## stoveguy2esw

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> No gasket between the gear box halves and shaft end is exposed.  Id say its a MK.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, did you every pass the GA info on to the lab guys at Englander to do a comparison?
> That was your last PM to me in Jan 2009.  Sorry if you posted the results and I missed it.




yeah i did as for the data being that long ago im not sure where it is anymore.


----------



## seige101

Nestoveowner, another western mass resident here(Palmer) i have been having the same problems with my auger on my enviro empress. I go through the same greasing process yearly.. As luck would have it the auger motor failed in the middle of the night. I was about to order a new one from the local dealer for $151, or some site online for 125 plus 14.95 shipping (it's not that freaking heavy). However after seeing this post i may stop in grainger and pick up a new one from them instead. Did you go to the branch on cottage street in springfield? and if so was it a stock item?

Thanks

Edit, read the entire post first. DUH! You went with the other one. (gleason)

Edit x2, the GA motor is not rated for continuous. Though in a pellet stove is technically not continuous duty, i wonder what their duty cycle is rated for.


----------



## seige101

donbryce said:
			
		

> NEStoveOwner said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in again. GA Auger motor running fine and stove is not having any issues. No work done with Englander to investigate my motor failures.  Have not heard back if they are going to test GA units themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been following your threads, and if I may, please comment on the following summary, which I believe captures the 4 available auger motors mentioned in your posts which will work without modification on the Englander 25-PDVC and PDV:
> 
> MFG........................Part#..........................On-line sales....................Price.......URL
> Merkle Korff............U-047040................Englander........................$130.98 .... http://tinyurl.com/dmom2p
> Merkle Korff............8211.......................Merkle Korff......................$73.18 .... http://tinyurl.com/averwq
> Dayton...................1LNG2A...................Grainger...........................$89.00 .... http://tinyurl.com/cftraf
> Gleason Avery........A901.......................Gleason Avery...................$79.95 .... http://tinyurl.com/cbc9ze
> 
> I assume that you're happy with the A901 and would recommend it over the others. I couldn't find the part number on the MK (model 4515UI-050) in my 25-PDVC on their website, so assume that it's assigned to the 'custom' motor supplied to Englander.
> 
> Here are a few Q's:
> 
> (1) Is the MK U-047040 identical to the MK 8211, or does the rotation need to be changed, or the output shaft modified to fit the auger?
> 
> (2) I re-read your posts and cannot find where I swear you noted that one of these motors was available at a reduced price for the motor portion only, that is, without gearbox...was that the Dayton?
> 
> (3) Are any of/all of these motors easily fitted to the gearbox on the MK motor in the Englander?
> 
> Bottom line here is that it would seem from everything I've read that the gearboxes on the Englander MK motors are bulletproof, but the motor portion is not, so the best _cost effective solution_ to a failed auger motor would be attaching a GA A901 motor to the MK gearbox supplied with the stove, no?
> 
> And the cheapest would be fitting whatever of these is available without the gearbox to the MK/Englander gearbox?
> 
> EDIT Feb.25/2009: I emailed Grainger, and the Dayton 1LNG2 motor is not available as a separate part.  Also got a reply from Merkle Korff re. availability of motor only for their 8211, and it is also not sold separate.
Click to expand...


This is great stuff! I don't know about all you guys and gals out there but is anyone up for making a data base of replacement parts by stove, then a link to the site where you can order the part? Just as you have done above. Count me in.

One last thing of note, grainger offers a 3 year replacement plan for 16.95 may be worth it if you are burning up motors all the time. They will replace it one time.


----------



## packrat35

I just ordered a Gleason-Avery A901 motor for my pellet stove.  I have a Gloking pellet stove and that company I understand is now out of business.  The motor that came with the stove was a Merkel-Korff Model 4515 UI-63.  I really can't complain about it because it worked very well for 12 years.  Earlier this year it quit turning and I was able to get it going again but I think the bearings are worn out.  After I added some oil to the bearings the motor worked ok but it seems after the oil goes away the motor gives up again.

I want to say thanks for all the great information here especially to NEStoveOwner for the info about the Gleason-Avery motors.  I like the idea of sealed bearings.  I can't wait to try the new motor.


----------



## edwinjk

Hey Guys:
    I am a newbe. I have an Englander 25PDV pellett stove. When I shut down, I clean it with
my shop vac. Then I take WD40 & spray it in the auger. This does a couple of things, first it
lubricates the auger & prevents it from binding. Also, I noticed that it seems to disolve some of
the carbon. The excess WD40 will burn off. I clean my stove once a day & it seems to work.
I am using Kentucky Kernel hardwood pellets with a low amount of fines. Just thoyght that I would pass it on.
edwinjk


----------



## imacman

edwinjk said:
			
		

> Hey Guys:
> I am a newbe. I have an Englander 25PDV pellett stove. When I shut down, I clean it with
> my shop vac. Then I take WD40 & spray it in the auger. This does a couple of things, first it
> lubricates the auger & prevents it from binding. Also, I noticed that it seems to disolve some of
> the carbon. The excess WD40 will burn off. I clean my stove once a day & it seems to work.
> I am using Kentucky Kernel hardwood pellets with a low amount of fines. Just thoyght that I would pass it on.
> edwinjk



Hi edwin, welcome to the forum.

As far as spraying WD-40 into the auger, IMO, I wouldn't do it anywhere there is flame.  If you have squeaking, let the hopper empty itself of almost all the pellets, then put a couple of big handfuls in a coffee can, and get some powdered graphite (hardware store?) and mix it with the pellets.  Dump them in, and run the stove.  The graphite works great to lube the auger.


----------



## KarlMsUSA

Regarding motor specs: The Dayton 1LNG2 is a Merkle-Korf 8191 speced at 1rpm 80 "# start - 100"# run. I believe the M-K supplied by Englander is rated 50"# which I'm guessing is start torque. The M-K 8145 seems to be the basis for the Englander motor & is rated 50 start 50 run.
As far as I can tell all the motors listed in the chart are synchronous type which would mean that their run speed is primarily affected by supply frequency (60hz U.S.), not minor voltage variations.


----------



## KarlMsUSA

That's SHADED POLE synchronous type.


----------



## Birdman Jack

I am not having a problem yet but I am quite sure I will before long. The top motor for the hopper runs cool but the bottom auger runs to hot to touch. It is because it is hooked to the augar that is feeding the fire so it is exposed to the heat. I have been looking for a replacement motor but but cannot believe the price of these units. I am thinking of trying to find 12 volt motors to replace them. Anyone have any thoughts about this?


----------



## imacman

birdman Jack said:
			
		

> I am not having a problem yet but I am quite sure I will before long. The top motor for the hopper runs cool but the bottom auger runs to hot to touch. It is because it is hooked to the augar that is feeding the fire so it is exposed to the heat. I have been looking for a replacement motor but but cannot believe the price of these units. I am thinking of trying to find 12 volt motors to replace them. Anyone have any thoughts about this?



I'm guessing that you have an Englander stove?  The bottom auger does get hotter due to combustion, and may cause the motor attached to it to run hotter too.

Are you assuming the bottom motor will go bad based on the temp?  What year is the stove?  What model?


----------



## packrat35

I just received my new gearmotor from Gleason-Avery.  It has no lugs attached to the wires and there does not appear to be a gasket sealing the gear box halves.  I am on my way to the store to get some lugs and then will try and figure out how to attatch the lugs to the unit.  Maybe I can epoxy them on.  I will figure out something.  It is cold outside and I need to get the stove running.

I am bench testing it now and it does seem to run fairly quietly.


----------



## Birdman Jack

I have a an Englander model 25-pdvc I bought new about two months ago. I made a set of saddle bag heaters for the sides that has allowed me to hook it into my baseboard heating system. Keeps the water from freezing in the pipes and keeps my boiler about 70 degrees. The stove is our primary heat and the boiler is now backup. I do believe the heat on the bottom auger feed will prematurly burn the motor out. It would be easy to modify this to keep the motor cool and maybe extend its life.  Hope this helps.


----------



## packrat35

I bench tested the new Gleason-Avery Model A901 gearmotor for about an hour and half.  It runs very hot just like the old Merkel-Korff motor did.  My conclusion is that it must be normal for this type of motor.

I tested it by just hooking it up to 120 volts AC and letting it run for about an hour and half.  This is a no load test and the motor got to hot to touch.  The gear box gets pretty warm after awhile also.

Maybe it is the coil that is producing the heat.  I bench tested the old Merkel-Korff motor with the rotor removed and it still got too hot to touch.

It looks like if I am going to epoxy those lugs on I had better use some kind of high temperature apoxy.


----------



## Birdman Jack

It might be because it is running almost continuous and I believe these are an intermittent motor. The top motor only turns very slowly while the botom motor really cranks. I assume at around 3000 rpm. I still believe that with a little thought we can come up with something better that will do the job without such a price. I hate to have to keep a couple of spare motors around just in case at the price they cost.


----------



## Birdman Jack

I took some readings and a tag off one of the motors. The motors are Merkle Korff and the tag says inter. duty which I assume stands for intermittent duty. The temperature readings I got were measured on both motors just to compare. The readings I got were at the bearing, the stacked plates and the gearbox.
hopper motor
bearing 115
cstack 112
gearbox 114

auger feed motor
bearing 162
cstack 174
gearbox 142

Now to be fair I also took a reading at the back of the stove where the auger enters. The reading was 139. Makes sense to blame the motor for the heat after measuring because where the auger is is cooler than the motor. I don't know if anyone else has measured any temps yet but would be interesting to compare. All my readings were in Fahrenheit.


----------



## packrat35

I decided that I did not need to epoxy the lugs to the motor.  I went to Lowes and bought some lugs.  I just crimped the lugs to the wires from the motor and then hooked up the stove wires to those.  It might actually be better this way.

I installed the motor and it seems to be working well and is fairly quiet.  My previous motor lasted about 12 years and if this one lasts that long I will be very happy.

Can you feel the warmth?


----------



## packrat35

The new Gleason-Avery gearmotor is working very well.  Actually it is working a little too well.

The gear motor that was in there before was rated for 1 RPM and the new motor is rated 1.1 RPM.  I thought 0.1 RPM would not make much of a difference but it seems to.

The Gloking pellet stove I have has 4 pellet feed settings and then a potentiometer that gives the ability for a slight adjustment on each setting.

These are the settings  Low,  Medium,  High,  and  Max/High

Now with this new gearmotor the low setting is more like the old medium setting and the medium setting is like the old high setting.

Is there any easy way to slow these motors down?


----------



## Birdman Jack

packrat35 said:
			
		

> The new Gleason-Avery gearmotor is working very well.  Actually it is working a little too well.
> 
> The gear motor that was in there before was rated for 1 RPM and the new motor is rated 1.1 RPM.  I thought 0.1 RPM would not make much of a difference but it seems to.
> 
> The Gloking pellet stove I have has 4 pellet feed settings and then a potentiometer that gives the ability for a slight adjustment on each setting.
> 
> These are the settings  Low,  Medium,  High,  and  Max/High
> 
> Now with this new gearmotor the low setting is more like the old medium setting and the medium setting is like the old high setting.
> 
> Is there any easy way to slow these motors down?



If you can get a value on the pot and it is not hard to change try a different value. If it is not easy to change like it is soldered on a cuircut board you may be able to throw some resistance in line to slow it down. Just a thought or two.


----------



## packrat35

Thanks for the reply birdman.  That is an idea to see about changing the pot so the voltage supplied to the motor is on for a shorter time.  I will have to see if I can find the schematic.

I will check the pot also and see what info I can get off of it.


----------



## GVA

If it's NOT direct drive you can change sprocket sizes.


----------



## tflight

Great thread... my auger motor on an old Breckwell P23 just died so this has been very helpful. My motor is a 1.0 RMP. I'm likely going to replace the stove when the heating season ends so I'm not looking to throw a ton of money into it nor am I worried about the fix lasting several years. I've looked at these four options:


• Breckwell lists this $144 + shipping replacement model which is close, but not exact to what mine looks like. (But is the correct replacement model.)

• It looks like Gleason Avery only has down to 1.2 RMP models and with only four feed settings on my stove I don't want to give each of those settings a 20% increase.

• Grainger has this $90 model with a fan which is interesting... I don't know if that big fan would add much noise or not. Also Grainger is wholesale only and requires a business ID.

• Finally there is this MK model for $73 that looks like it would work.


Any opinions or other options/sources known?


----------



## BJN644

tflight said:
			
		

> Great thread... my auger motor on an old Breckwell P23 just died so this has been very helpful. My motor is a 1.0 RMP. I'm likely going to replace the stove when the heating season ends so I'm not looking to throw a ton of money into it nor am I worried about the fix lasting several years. I've looked at these four options:
> 
> 
> • Breckwell lists this $144 + shipping replacement model which is close, but not exact to what mine looks like. (But is the correct replacement model.)
> 
> • It looks like Gleason Avery only has down to 1.2 RMP models and with only four feed settings on my stove I don't want to give each of those settings a 20% increase.
> 
> • Grainger has this $90 model with a fan which is interesting... I don't know if that big fan would add much noise or not. Also Grainger is wholesale only and requires a business ID.
> 
> • Finally there is this MK model for $73 that looks like it would work.
> 
> 
> Any opinions or other options/sources known?



I'm pretty sure I've bought from Grainger online as an individual, if they won't take your money try McMaster-Carr, they usually carry the same stuff as Grainger.


----------



## tflight

BJN644 said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure I've bought from Grainger online as an individual


I guess they will sell to you despite what they put on their website.  Good call, I should have checked. I've got the motor on order and it should be at my local Grainger branch tomorrow.


----------



## Benski

macman said:
			
		

> As far as spraying WD-40 into the auger, IMO, I wouldn't do it anywhere there is flame.  If you have squeaking, let the hopper empty itself of almost all the pellets, then put a couple of big handfuls in a coffee can, and get some powdered graphite (hardware store?) and mix it with the pellets.  Dump them in, and run the stove.  The graphite works great to lube the auger.



Graphite can be obtained from any farm machinery dealer (CaseIH, Deere or Agco) as it is widely used to "lubricate" the seeds, mainly corn seeds.  But I agree not convenient for cities!
Ben


----------



## tflight

Turns out I won't be needing that auger motor after-all. Circuit board is now blown. Breckwell cost: $275. But... they don't make my exact board anymore so in order to get that board I need a $75 wiring harness/adapter. This is on top of the modification I'd already made since the blower switch broke. Add in the auger motor which I still would need and I'm at $500+ in parts for a 12 year old stove. Not going to happen.... I cancelled the auger motor order and a new Harman P43 will be installed soon.


----------



## Birdman Jack

tflight said:
			
		

> Turns out I won't be needing that auger motor after-all. Circuit board is now blown. Breckwell cost: $275. But... they don't make my exact board anymore so in order to get that board I need a $75 wiring harness/adapter. This is on top of the modification I'd already made since the blower switch broke. Add in the auger motor which I still would need and I'm at $500+ in parts for a 12 year old stove. Not going to happen.... I cancelled the auger motor order and a new Harman P43 will be installed soon.



I was wondering if the motor failed or did the gearbox fail? I found just the motors on another site for $13.00 and if I can find it again I will probably order one.


----------



## tflight

birdman Jack said:
			
		

> I was wondering if the motor failed or did the gearbox fail?


I believe it was just the motor.


----------



## pellet

birdman Jack said:
			
		

> tflight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out I won't be needing that auger motor after-all. Circuit board is now blown. Breckwell cost: $275. But... they don't make my exact board anymore so in order to get that board I need a $75 wiring harness/adapter. This is on top of the modification I'd already made since the blower switch broke. Add in the auger motor which I still would need and I'm at $500+ in parts for a 12 year old stove. Not going to happen.... I cancelled the auger motor order and a new Harman P43 will be installed soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if the motor failed or did the gearbox fail? I found just the motors on another site for $13.00 and if I can find it again I will probably order one.
Click to expand...



Birdman,
Would you mind sharing the site where motors are for $13?  Good info


----------



## Birdman Jack

pellet said:
			
		

> birdman Jack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tflight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out I won't be needing that auger motor after-all. Circuit board is now blown. Breckwell cost: $275. But... they don't make my exact board anymore so in order to get that board I need a $75 wiring harness/adapter. This is on top of the modification I'd already made since the blower switch broke. Add in the auger motor which I still would need and I'm at $500+ in parts for a 12 year old stove. Not going to happen.... I cancelled the auger motor order and a new Harman P43 will be installed soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if the motor failed or did the gearbox fail? I found just the motors on another site for $13.00 and if I can find it again I will probably order one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Birdman,
> Would you mind sharing the site where motors are for $13?  Good info
Click to expand...


I will have to go in and look for it. I should be able to find it again. I think the motors run at 2800 to 3000 rpm and the gearbox lowers it to 1 rpm.


----------



## pellet

I would sure appreciate it and I'm guessing others here would too.  Thanks


----------



## Birdman Jack

pellet said:
			
		

> I would sure appreciate it and I'm guessing others here would too. Thanks



I went back and tried to find the one I was looking for but with no luck. I wish I had one that was bad to do a little comparison with.I do have the tag off of mine but it is a merkle korff and I can't find the exact specks for this motor. I believe it has a 3/8 shaft but I am not sure what the end of the shaft looks like. I do know it is either 2800 or 3000 rpm both of which should work but I need physical measurements. I would pull mine out but it is my main source of heat. Probably a lot of these motors would work if the shaft is the same on the end. I am afraid it might be splined but am not sure. If anyone on here has an old one that has quit working and they did not throw it away maybe we could dissect it. Also the thought crossed my mind just to change the c-stack with the windings if the shaft is ok. A lot of these motors are identical except for the end. You just have to make sure the amperage draw for the motor is big enough. Mine is rated at .4 amps. I don't know if this makes sense to you but I don't know any other way to explain it.


----------



## ct_administrator

My 25-pdv lower auger motor started to whine and click and was very hot to touch, then the Stove couldn't keep a fire going.  So I  switched the upper and lower motors to try to get the rest of the winter out of it..................no luck....... just wouldn't feed pellets fast enough. 

Anyway I was searching for a new motor which brought me here,  I was about to pull the trigger on the Grainger, then on a whim I took the "stator" (I think thats what its called)  off and cleaned it with a rag  it was pretty dirty I guess because it isn't sealed dirt/ grime can accumulate.  

Just two screws on the back, a rag and WTF the stove started going like nobody's business. The house got up to 72deg (hot for me), guess it had been under-performing for a while.   I'm going to look into putting some electrical varnish on it as well, I read this somewhere and not sure really what it does or what kind to look for, just going to ask some questions. 

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents, the info on the motors is appreciated, I'm thankful mine is running again, don't know for how long but we will see. 

thank you 
and nice forum you have here.


----------



## Birdman Jack

administrator said:
			
		

> My 25-pdv lower auger motor started to whine and click and was very hot to touch, then the Stove couldn't keep a fire going.  So I  switched the upper and lower motors to try to get the rest of the winter out of it..................no luck....... just wouldn't feed pellets fast enough.
> 
> Anyway I was searching for a new motor which brought me here,  I was about to pull the trigger on the Grainger, then on a whim I took the "stator" (I think thats what its called)  off and cleaned it with a rag  it was pretty dirty I guess because it isn't sealed dirt/ grime can accumulate.
> 
> Just two screws on the back, a rag and WTF the stove started going like nobody's business. The house got up to 72deg (hot for me), guess it had been under-performing for a while.   I'm going to look into putting some electrical varnish on it as well, I read this somewhere and not sure really what it does or what kind to look for, just going to ask some questions.
> 
> Just thought I'd add my 2 cents, the info on the motors is appreciated, I'm thankful mine is running again, don't know for how long but we will see.
> 
> thank you
> and nice forum you have here.


I did find this for the motors. I know that 1 rpm is what we need but 1.8 would probabably work ok with all the adjustment that we have on the 25 pdvc. I will probably order one just to play with for $18 bucks. The rating on the motor is in the ballpark so it should work ok. https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp


----------



## ct_administrator

""""""""""I did find this for the motors. I know that 1 rpm is what we need but 1.8 would probabably work ok with all the adjustment that we have on the 25 pdvc. I will probably order one just to play with for $18 bucks. The rating on the motor is in the ballpark so it should work ok. https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp"""""""""

WOW, Great find, your a better googler than me I guess...........LOL

 I wonder how this would match up to our stoves with the different RPM's  ??

I may have to pull the trigger on one of those

Its this one you are talking about right   https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=5-1738&UID=2252011917240136


----------



## Birdman Jack

administrator said:
			
		

> """"""""""I did find this for the motors. I know that 1 rpm is what we need but 1.8 would probabably work ok with all the adjustment that we have on the 25 pdvc. I will probably order one just to play with for $18 bucks. The rating on the motor is in the ballpark so it should work ok. https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp"""""""""
> 
> WOW, Great find, your a better googler than me I guess...........LOL
> 
> I wonder how this would match up to our stoves with the different RPM's  ??
> 
> I may have to pull the trigger on one of those
> 
> Its this one you are talking about right   https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=5-1738&UID=2252011917240136


Yep thats the one. If just the gearbox goes bad then just swap the motor part to keep it the same. Not sure what everything looks like have not had one apart yet.


----------



## geek

ok, so much GOOD info here...

So the bottom auger seems to be dead on my Englander 25-PDV, but with so many auger brands and RPMs now I don't know which one will perfectly fit my 25-PDV.....

Please help.....!


----------



## imacman

geek said:
			
		

> ok, so much GOOD info here...
> 
> So the bottom auger seems to be dead on my Englander 25-PDV, but with so many auger brands and RPMs now I don't know which one will perfectly fit my 25-PDV.....
> 
> Please help.....!



Geek, there have been many good reviews of the Gleason-Avery.  If I was buying a replacement, this is what I'd get.  better bearings, thicker stack.....beefier:

http://www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html


----------



## geek

Thanks mac,

I will choose the A901 at 1.2 RPM, I think that's the closest to what the englanders have (1 RPM ??), is that correct??


----------



## geek

Also, I guess that the $18 motor wouldn't be a good investment, would it?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=5-1738&UID=3508020408483918


----------



## slvrblkk

geek said:
			
		

> Also, I guess that the $18 motor wouldn't be a good investment, would it?
> 
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=5-1738&UID=3508020408483918



Actually....probably wouldn't be bad to have one on hand...this price is right and would get you through in a pinch!


----------



## geek

but I wonder if anyone has ordered and installed one of those cheap augers and if it has worked for what time.
Not trying to be cheap but hey, if the cheap one works then why not.

..


----------



## Birdman Jack

geek said:
			
		

> but I wonder if anyone has ordered and installed one of those cheap augers and if it has worked for what time.
> Not trying to be cheap but hey, if the cheap one works then why not.
> 
> ..


I found it you try it. But seriously what gave out on yours the motor or the gearbox? Can you send me a picture of the unit with the end that fastens to the auger. The cheap gearboxes are simply a surplus item from something else that probably went belly up. That is why so cheap most of the time. The magnum 6500 pellet and corn stove uses one of these motors. I believe it is a little higher rpm but will not swear to it. Let us know what you do. Picture please.


----------



## packrat35

As you can see from my previous posts I bought one of those Avery-Gleason 1.2 rpm motor gear boxes.  It works fine.  When I bought it I wasn't thinking because I thought 0.2 rpm would not make much difference but like someone stated in a previous post that is 20 % and it does make a difference.  On warmer days I have to shut it down because it gets too warm in the house.

If I had it to do over again I think I would take my chances and order a 1.0 rpm motor from Amazon.  The price seems reasonable.  Here is a link.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...words=pellet+stove+auger+motor&sprefix=pellet

Edit: Has anyone tried this Dayton Gearmotor from Grainger?

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...uery=1lng2&op=search&Ntt=1lng2&N=0&sst=subset

Edit 2: Now I see there is a thread on the Dayton Gearmotor.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/47598/#586396


----------



## geek

birdman Jack said:
			
		

> geek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I wonder if anyone has ordered and installed one of those cheap augers and if it has worked for what time.
> Not trying to be cheap but hey, if the cheap one works then why not.
> 
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> I found it you try it. But seriously what gave out on yours the motor or the gearbox? Can you send me a picture of the unit with the end that fastens to the auger. The cheap gearboxes are simply a surplus item from something else that probably went belly up. That is why so cheap most of the time. The magnum 6500 pellet and corn stove uses one of these motors. I believe it is a little higher rpm but will not swear to it. Let us know what you do. Picture please.
Click to expand...


OK.

..


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Just checking back in again.  Ran the whole season without any issues at all.

Any one buy a brand new Englander stove and is it still shipping with that same motor?  

Are they still selling inferior replacement motors for double the cost?


----------



## Snowy Rivers

It is so sad, but true, that far too many products are made using cheap parts that will just barely make it out of warranty before the break.

I have replaced a couple auger motors over the years and always used the Dayton motors from Graingers.

Never had any issues with those motors.

The difference in the two motors shown in the pix really brings the concept of CHEAP motors Home to roost for sure eh ???


Glad your dragon is vanquished.


Snowy


----------



## Topshelf

Just got my replacement / warranty Merkle Korff  auger motor from Englander. I spent most of a week with my stove down due to the original motor taking a dump. I'm cringing reading this thread and reports about these motors. I do know that IF this new motor dies it wont be replaced with a Merkle Korff .
The up side is when my stove is up and running its beautiful heat. When its down, which has been numerous times in its virgin season, its not so pretty and negates any savings I may have had by running a pellet stove. I may have a summer sale on this one before it starts costing me repairs next year which is kind of sad.

Has any one here with stove issues kept track of how many hours of labor and down time you have in one year? I wish I would have kept track of mine this season.


----------



## MCPO

Topshelf said:
			
		

> Just got my replacement / warranty Merkle Korff  auger motor from Englander. I spent most of a week with my stove down due to the original motor taking a dump. I'm cringing reading this thread and reports about these motors. I do know that IF this new motor dies it wont be replaced with a Merkle Korff .
> The up side is when my stove is up and running its beautiful heat. When its down, which has been numerous times in its virgin season, its not so pretty and negates any savings I may have had by running a pellet stove. I may have a summer sale on this one before it starts costing me repairs next year which is kind of sad.
> 
> Has any one here with stove issues kept track of how many hours of labor and down time you have in one year? I wish I would have kept track of mine this season.



Hey, it`s just a pellet stove. Why over react?  Your Englander , like most other pellet stoves  isn`t gonna fetch you much on the used market so why not just live with what you got. The price of two new good motors in the future is probably gonna be a lot less than a service call from a stove shop to fix one .


----------



## MCPO

Obviously the problems of a particular stove will be heard far beyond the praises of satisfied users but it seems to me the MK auger motors used in Englander stoves are more problematic than  MK auger motors used in other stoves.


----------



## Topshelf

Gio said:
			
		

> Topshelf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got my replacement / warranty Merkle Korff  auger motor from Englander. I spent most of a week with my stove down due to the original motor taking a dump. I'm cringing reading this thread and reports about these motors. I do know that IF this new motor dies it wont be replaced with a Merkle Korff .
> The up side is when my stove is up and running its beautiful heat. When its down, which has been numerous times in its virgin season, its not so pretty and negates any savings I may have had by running a pellet stove. I may have a summer sale on this one before it starts costing me repairs next year which is kind of sad.
> 
> Has any one here with stove issues kept track of how many hours of labor and down time you have in one year? I wish I would have kept track of mine this season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey, it`s just a pellet stove. Why over react? * Your Englander , like most other pellet stoves  isn`t gonna fetch you much on the used market so why not just live with what you got. The price of two new good motors in the future is probably gonna be a lot less than a service call from a stove shop to fix one .
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how my post is an over reaction? IMO if I put out my cash for a new item, I expect it to perform without having to be the beta tester / mechanic for the thing. For the record, in 6 months of operation I have replaced the Auger motor, Stir motor, Exhaust blower, burn pot and brick panel. The only thing I havent replaced so far this year is the room blower (Jinx). I would never call a service guy out unless its on Englanders dime. The stove is so basic I would think just about anyone could troubleshoot it and repair it.

Because I travel a lot for work during the week, my wife is on her own for issues with my stove. I can talk her through most minor problems like augers jams, but motor failures isnt something she or I can fix without parts. The bottom line is Down time = $$$ in propane. It kind of defeats the purpose of having the stove it it wont stay up and running right?


----------



## MCPO

Topshelf said:
			
		

> Gio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Topshelf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got my replacement / warranty Merkle Korff  auger motor from Englander. I spent most of a week with my stove down due to the original motor taking a dump. I'm cringing reading this thread and reports about these motors. I do know that IF this new motor dies it wont be replaced with a Merkle Korff .
> The up side is when my stove is up and running its beautiful heat. When its down, which has been numerous times in its virgin season, its not so pretty and negates any savings I may have had by running a pellet stove. I may have a summer sale on this one before it starts costing me repairs next year which is kind of sad.
> 
> Has any one here with stove issues kept track of how many hours of labor and down time you have in one year? I wish I would have kept track of mine this season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Hey, it`s just a pellet stove. Why over react? * Your Englander , like most other pellet stoves  isn`t gonna fetch you much on the used market so why not just live with what you got. The price of two new good motors in the future is probably gonna be a lot less than a service call from a stove shop to fix one .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how my post is an over reaction? IMO if I put out my cash for a new item, I expect it to perform without having to be the beta tester / mechanic for the thing. For the record, in 6 months of operation I have replaced the Auger motor, Stir motor, Exhaust blower, burn pot and brick panel. The only thing I havent replaced so far this year is the room blower (Jinx). I would never call a service guy out unless its on Englanders dime. The stove is so basic I would think just about anyone could troubleshoot it and repair it.
> 
> Because I travel a lot for work during the week, my wife is on her own for issues with my stove. I can talk her through most minor problems like augers jams, but motor failures isnt something she or I can fix without parts. The bottom line is Down time = $$$ in propane. It kind of defeats the purpose of having the stove it it wont stay up and running right?
Click to expand...


My over reacting comment was based on your remark that you were contemplating a summer sale.  I mean you got a lot of new parts in it already.  Should be trouble free for a while.


----------



## Topshelf

Gio I'm just worried about this being the normal with replacing all these parts every year. Serious this is a new stove. This should not be happening IMO.

So if you add up the dollar value of parts replaced so far when ordering through Englander, it would be in the 500 -600 dollar range. I only paid 800 for the stove, which at the time I thought was a bargin. What do they say about if it seems to go to be true it usually is? 

So next year when the warranty is up and the costs of the parts are now out of my pocket, I dont want to invest another 6-800 bucks into something that is maybe worth 400-500 on craigslist or ebay. Thats like Obama economics, just keep throwing money at it, that will help right? Maybe it will qualify for our new super duper health care system


----------



## MCPO

Topshelf said:
			
		

> Gio I'm just worried about this being the normal with replacing all these parts every year. Serious this is a new stove. This should not be happening IMO.
> 
> So if you add up the dollar value of parts replaced so far when ordering through Englander, it would be in the 500 -600 dollar range. I only paid 800 for the stove, which at the time I thought was a bargin. What do they say about if it seems to go to be true it usually is?
> 
> So next year when the warranty is up and the costs of the parts are now out of my pocket, I dont want to invest another 6-800 bucks into something that is maybe worth 400-500 on craigslist or ebay. Thats like Obama economics, just keep throwing money at it, that will help right? Maybe it will qualify for our new super duper health care system



Well, you did have more problems than usual but from where I sit you still only have your original $800 in the stove and it`s got all new parts in it now. But it`s your money.


----------



## Topshelf

Update on my Auger Motor issues:

Well I finally got around to installing my new auger motor last weekend. Took all of 15-20 minutes from start to finish.
My old motor growled like I had a rabid dog in my stove. I fired up the stove after the install of the new motor and I could not believe the difference. The new one you you can barely hear kick in. Man that thing is quiet compared to the old one. I had nothing to gauge it against so I figured that was how they all sounded? I was wron...... 

So now I'm thinking dang it, I just spent the whole winter putting up with all that noise from the old motor and probably didnt have to. Doh!

Also I believe it was the gear box that finally gave it up. It was grinding so bad before it all together died, you couldnt hear yourself speak. When it really started to go, the motor would still work on and off if you tapped on it with a screw driver handle. I think what was happening was the tapping would jar the gear box and allow it to rotate internally? I may just hook it up with out the gear box later this summer to test it.


----------



## MCPO

Topshelf said:
			
		

> Update on my Auger Motor issues:
> 
> Well I finally got around to installing my new auger motor last weekend. Took all of 15-20 minutes from start to finish.
> My old motor growled like I had a rabid dog in my stove. I fired up the stove after the install of the new motor and I could not believe the difference. The new one you you can barely hear kick in. Man that thing is quiet compared to the old one. I had nothing to gauge it against so I figured that was how they all sounded? I was wron......
> 
> So now I'm thinking dang it, I just spent the whole winter putting up with all that noise from the old motor and probably didnt have to. Doh!
> 
> Also I believe it was the gear box that finally gave it up. It was grinding so bad before it all together died, you couldnt hear yourself speak. When it really started to go, the motor would still work on and off if you tapped on it with a screw driver handle. I think what was happening was the tapping would jar the gear box and allow it to rotate internally? I may just hook it up with out the gear box later this summer to test it.



That`s great! Now you can put off that summer sale ( at least till next year ).


----------



## oldspark

GVA said:
			
		

> RPM would vary on the voltage to the stove verse nameplate voltage... as does current....
> Ex: amotor rated at 1.6 amps at 460vac would draw probably 1.4 amps at 480 vac..


I know this an old post but it does not work like that.


----------



## Topshelf

Gio said:
			
		

> Topshelf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Update on my Auger Motor issues:
> 
> Well I finally got around to installing my new auger motor last weekend. Took all of 15-20 minutes from start to finish.
> My old motor growled like I had a rabid dog in my stove. I fired up the stove after the install of the new motor and I could not believe the difference. The new one you you can barely hear kick in. Man that thing is quiet compared to the old one. I had nothing to gauge it against so I figured that was how they all sounded? I was wron......
> 
> So now I'm thinking dang it, I just spent the whole winter putting up with all that noise from the old motor and probably didnt have to. Doh!
> 
> Also I believe it was the gear box that finally gave it up. It was grinding so bad before it all together died, you couldnt hear yourself speak. When it really started to go, the motor would still work on and off if you tapped on it with a screw driver handle. I think what was happening was the tapping would jar the gear box and allow it to rotate internally? I may just hook it up with out the gear box later this summer to test it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That`s great! Now you can put off that summer sale ( at least till next year ).
Click to expand...


I sold my Lopi Wood stove last summer in September on Craigs list. I had people fighting for it and trying to outbid guys. I made over a 100 bucks on the thing and burned it for probably 10 years. Timing is everything 

We shall see on the summer fire sale. Now that I know I can find an auger motor for it at a reasonable price and just about everything is brand new, your right I should keep it. If worse come to worse I will just pick up a couple of auger motors for spares. I do have a couple of improvements for mine in the back of my head. My hopper has a ledge in it that catchs gunk and eventually jams the auger. I may have two small plates welded in to do away with that issue. The other is the access cover for the back . I would like to install a sound deadening material over it. I wouldnt close it off completly but would like to cover the bottom half to help with the noise? The excess heat could still excape yet it would keep the low rumble sound down?


----------



## new flame

I am currently building my own pellet stove so am curious what "Really Hot" thinks of his Gleason Avery gear motor now that he has had it fitted for ~ 18 months.


----------



## imacman

new flame said:
			
		

> I am currently building my own pellet stove so am curious what "Really Hot" thinks of his Gleason Avery gear motor now that he has had it fitted for ~ 18 months.



Welcome to the forum from "across the pond".  I'm sure many members would be interested in seeing your pellet stove "build" as it progresses....maybe you can post pics as you go along.

As for the forum member that installed the GA auger motor, the last time I knew, he had good reports about it.

If you want to contact him directly instead of hoping he'll see this thread, try sending him a PM.....and his forum name is "NEStoveOwner".


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Checking in once again, only have used about 20 bags so far this season and ZERO issues with new auger motor.

However ........  i need to replace ANOTHER blower motor.  

This will be the third one.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/

I will not buy one from Englander.


----------



## imacman

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> Checking in once again, only have used about 20 bags so far this season and ZERO issues with new auger motor.
> 
> However ........  i need to replace ANOTHER blower motor.
> 
> This will be the third one.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/
> 
> I will not buy one from Englander.



Try finding one here:

www.cshincorporated.com/index.php/cPath/110

or here:

www.grainger.com/Grainger/oem-specialty-blowers/blowers/hvacr/ecatalog/N-d0x


----------



## NEStoveOwner

I was able to steal some parts off of my old blower and put it on this one.  Ive burned about 4 bags since and no issues.

Thanks for the links.  Im always on the lookout for replacement parts from someone other than Englander.  Not willing to pay their markup for an inferior part.


----------



## imacman

NEStoveowner, how is the GA auger motor you put in back in Jan. of '09 working?  Give us an update.


----------



## NEStoveOwner

NEStoveOwner said:
			
		

> Checking in once again, only have used about 20 bags so far this season and ZERO issues with new auger motor.
> 
> However ........  i need to replace ANOTHER blower motor.
> 
> This will be the third one.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/32191/
> 
> I will not buy one from Englander.



Was fine when i posted above and still is.


----------



## Petewood159

Hey folks 
First time posting, I bought a Englander 25 EP at Lowes for about $1400.00 only to see them go for as little as 599.00 at the end of the season.Just my luck.
My auger motor has been working on and off since I bought it and my 
Unit is in pieces all over my basement floor trying to figure out why when I disconnect
The motor from the auger it will work , but when it's under load it craps out. This is the beginning of my second season and I'm thrilled to death to see 
That I actually have a better alternative to buying factory parts that don't exactly have a great track record.
I thought I was going to be stuck with this stove as a huge expensive paper weight. I am greatful to all you
People who have done the leg work so I can have a stove that actually works Thanks!! Now my wife can stop glaring at
Me with that look in her eyes that says " I told you we should have bought a gas fireplace".Anyway ,I'm going to order a new motor tonight,heck I
Might as well order two just to be safe.
Thanks again for the great advice!
Pete.


----------



## imacman

Petewood159 said:
			
		

> ...Anyway ,I'm going to order a new motor tonight,heck I
> Might as well order two just to be safe.
> Thanks again for the great advice!
> Pete.



You might consider one of these....heavier duty motor and only $84:

www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html


----------



## Petewood159

Thats the one I'm going to order,actually two. I sent them a message about shipping USPS because otherwise I get dinged with Brokerage fees that can be more than the original purchase price.
Thanks for the advice!
 Pete.


----------



## bill3rail

New to the forums, but this thread has informed me of exactly what I was looking for.  
Higher quality parts at lower prices than the manufacturer.  
I will probably order one auger motor as a spare.  
If mine craps out any time soon, I should be able to get one from Englander under warranty.
I should keep one on hand because it will not crap out in July or August, mid winter is more likely!


----------



## dave64

i bought mine here 59.95 

http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Stove-...ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1326520045&sr=1-1


----------



## bill3rail

dave64 said:
			
		

> i bought mine here 59.95
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pellet-Stove-...ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1326520045&sr=1-1



That one is OK, but it is still OEM quality, or lack there of, is it not?
Definitely worth the price compared to OEM at $130.98.

Bill


----------



## bill3rail

imacman said:
			
		

> Petewood159 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Anyway ,I'm going to order a new motor tonight,heck I
> Might as well order two just to be safe.
> Thanks again for the great advice!
> Pete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might consider one of these....heavier duty motor and only $84:
> 
> www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html
Click to expand...


Shipping and NYS tax it cost $104.00...
I am waiting for my UPS delivery as we type!

I ordered it in case my motor dies, I can install the new one immediately and wait for England Stove to replace my shelf stocked motor with another inferior replacement.

Bill


----------



## valley ranch

NEStoveOwner, I salute you I've read through this thread and have been amazed to see NS did not respect your R&D with regard to the Pattern Failure of their product. They I think will look for a fix hoping not to mirror your findings in order to avoid the deserved reward or compensation and worry about litigation.
This doesn't speak well for manufacture or seller for I am sure they have been following you thread and its attendance.

Again, I salute you!


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Thanks for the kind words , i appreciate it.  

Many on here were not in belief of what i said and what i discovered just because they themselves had a good relationship with the company or because they never saw what i saw.  I am amused when people can not take facts for facts when their opinions want them to believe other wise. Please see the link in this thread to the other thread.  

I am even more amused when some Americans will by default say Made in the USA is supposed to mean better quality than Made in China.  I see people scream all the time over low quality China product but commonly wont have the same level of disappointment when something Made in the USA is inferior in design or assembly.

To the folks above that posted about the MK motors on Amazon.  Please note that is the same brand as originally used in my Englander.  I can not speak to whether the quality would be any different.

And the last thing i would like to add is that i am in another season of flawless performance.

Gleason Avery ftw !


----------



## Les

This thread was a big help, thanks to all. I wanted to share my findings in case it can help others. Our NES 25PVDC is our main heat source and runs 24/7 during Maine winters....the house was built in 1820 and we burn three bags a day, 6 tons per season.  When our stove's lower auger started to hang up and not turn, I noticed the auger was red hot and pellets were burning back into the auger chamber. Cool down and cleaning did not help. I could see the motor itself was turning and thought the gearbox died so I found this thread and then sourced a motor locally for $100. Took everything apart and what I found is why I am posting. My motor and gearbox was fine. The heat had damaged the gasket where the bearing which supports the auger hangs. This failure allowed the grease to dissipate and overheat the bearing! The lower auger would jam up and kill the stove. What I did was, swap the bearing block/gasket from the top auger to the bottom since I had no suitable gasket material and knowing the bottom auger experienced the most heat. I fashioned a steel "gasket" for the top auger and used hi-temp sealant for the reassembly of everything. I also used carb cleaner to loosen the heated bearing and then greased them with hi-temp grease. I did use the new motor and I had to flip the windings for correct rotation. The stove is running fine. 

Since nobody (that I saw) made mention of the bearings, I joined the forum to post my success. One note, when reassembling the augers, they did not turn freely. So, I loosened the bolts and turned the augers with pliers....essentially "aligning" them to the tubes, then tightened the bolts. 

So, what caused the failure in the first place? I assume the transfer of heat from the auger back to the bearing had a lot to do with it and since zero maintenance has been done for three years, the bearing started to bind up which started a snowball effect which toasted the gasket. Also, the infiltration of air around a worn door seal likely did not help as did leaving the hopper open for an extended period a day earlier...  So, a new door seal, greasing the bearings after the season and not leaving the hopper open should help.  Hopefully, this helps othes as well.


----------



## Harvey Schneider

NEStoveOwner said:


> The current draw rating is .72 but it only draws the amount stated above.


The motor draws the rated current at the time it is doing the maximum work it can handle. This would be at the maximum horsepower output (horsepower = torque x RPM). At no load the motor is not doing any work other than overcoming its own friction and windage of the rotor.



NEStoveOwner said:


> Maybe someone can chime in, is the RPM rating generally lower than actual?


Shaded pole motors run approximately synchronous to the AC line. With an applied load (that is when they are doing work) they slip behind the AC frequency. The motor output shaft RPM is specified at rated load not at no load so it would appear that the rated speed is lower than actual. In real life the load on motors varies and the speed varies with it.


----------



## NEStoveOwner

My seasonal check in.  MY GA motor continues to run flawlessly.  I did have one MK motor still in the stove and it is now dead.  I will be ordering a GA tonight.   The Gleason Avery is 79.95.  Englander charges 130.98 for a replacement, i would be interested to know if Englander has changed their motor source or do they still use the inferior MK.


----------



## Don2222

Hello

Harman uses Gleason Avery too, I wonder why. LOL

You may want to pimp up your augers too! That will take some of the load off the motors!
See my pics here
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-little-auger-burs-pimp-my-auger-pics.102423/


----------



## NEStoveOwner

I called Gleason Avery today.  I bought my last motor from them directly in CCW configuration.

Gleason Avery will not sell anyone there A901 motor in CCW configuration.  GA told me i have to buy it from Englander as they have an agreement with Englander.

Mike does this mean i need to pay Englander $130 for a motor you buy for $79.95?  Your website shows $130.


----------



## slvrblkk

Can you just buy it in the CW configuration and just flip the stack?


----------



## imacman

slvrblkk said:


> Can you just buy it in the CW configuration and just flip the stack?


Most auger motors can be reversed....maybe someone w/ a GA can chime in.


----------



## slvrblkk

imacman said:


> *Most auger motors can be reversed*....maybe someone w/ a GA can chime in.


 
Exactly.......according to the website the 901's come CW rotation......just flip the stack....problem solved....

*GEARCASE CONSTRUCTION* *MOTOR CONSTRUCTION*​*Gearcase*: Zinc die cast​*Lubrication*: Grease filled​*Gears*: Hardened steel and phenolic​*Bearings*: Spherical​*Mounting*: All positions​*Rotation: CW facing shaft*​*Shaft*: 3/8" diameter x 1" long with flat, hardened *Type*: Shaded pole​*Protection*: Impedance or thermally protected *​*Hz*: 60 or 50​*Duty*: Intermittent ​*Bearings*: Self-lubricating bronze sleeve​*Insulation*: Class B​UL and CSA ​*Motor Leads*: 6" from bobbin​


----------



## NEStoveOwner

Well. i guess Englander doesnt have any comment as to why they would make such an arrangement with Gleason Avery. I will start a new thread on how to make a CW GA motor run CCW.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/gleason-avery-cw-motor-modification-for-ccw-use.103117/


----------



## rich2500

have to keep these gleasons in mind for if or when my CSH motors quit


----------

