# Do I buy the Lopi Leyden or the Quadra Fire Mt Vernon AE??



## Jessica (Jul 20, 2013)

My husband and I are struggling to figure out which pellet stove to buy for our open-concept, 2400 square foot home (one floor/main living level, basement has Avalon wood stove for heating).  We have oil heat and the cost to heat this house last winter was approximately $350-$400/month.

We have gone to two separate stores in our area and the following stoves have been suggested to us:

Lopi Leyden which will heat 2250 square feet (sales person says it will heat up to 2500 sq ft).  The price out the door with everything (stove, venting, installation and floor mat) is $4150. 

Quadra Fire Mt Vernon AE which is said to heat up to 2900 sq ft.  The price for this one out the door with everything (stove, venting, installation and floor mat) is $4750.

Our dilemma is in trying to figure out which one is more reputable in terms of performance and warranty.  I have read horror stories about the Quadra Fire breaking down A LOT. 
It has been pointed out by both sales people at the two different stores that the Lopi is tested in WA state where it's colder (like CT winters), whereas the Quadra Fire is tested in Florida or CA (can't remember which one they said), so that might be why the rating is at 2900 sq ft.  The sales person said herself (For the Quadra Fire) said that for the specific reason the unit is tested in warmer weather, it may NOT heat up to that much, and really be around 2500 sq ft.  My husband doesn't buy that theory however, his point is that if it's 60 degrees, the unit will identify 60 degrees and heat accordingly.  Also, I'm not sure if this makes a difference (a sales person pointed it out), the Lopi is made in the USA where the Quadra Fire is not. 

My head is spinning and I'm definitely NOT an expert, but when it comes to spending just shy of $5000 in an attempt to conserve money on our oil bill, I want to make the best decision possible.  Also, we want to make sure our house is as warm as can be since we have a newborn coming in October . So, any input or thoughts on this would be so very beneficial! 

 Thanks in advance!!


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## imacman (Jul 20, 2013)

Travis Ind. (Lopi, Avalon), make a VERY nice and solid stove.  That's where I'd put my $$


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## stovelark (Jul 20, 2013)

x2 for the Avalon.  If you want a Quad, get the 1200 classic bay, much more reliable than the MV.  The MV is a pretty stove though, like the Leyden. Servicing the Leyden is easier as well.  A good competitor for the Leyden is the Enviro M55 cast stove.  But Travis does make nice pellet stoves. good luck..


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## smoke show (Jul 21, 2013)

I personally believe you need to educate yourself about BTU's versus square footage ratings. Also visit more than 2 stores if possible.


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## Utilitrack (Jul 21, 2013)

I have had a Leyden since 2008, great stove and so far no issues to date, but that is a BiG space. I personally think that the square footage heated is oversold on all units. The Leyden heats our 1,700' no issues but we have a Cape Cod. you may need to look at the Harman P68, certainly not as aesthetically pleasing as the Leyden or Mt Vernon, but would certainly be better suited for the space. Good luck!


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## Phil Do's fire. (Jul 21, 2013)

I have had several Quadrafire products over the years and all have been good to me. The MV is a high tech pellet burner, most of the issue's have been with the earlier units. I'm with smoke show, educate and go to more than two stores. The Classic bay is a great stove for large area's and is bullet proof reliable


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## tumbles (Jul 21, 2013)

Can't speak for the quad but my Lopi has been great.   It's heats 1600 sq ft no problem.   Great reliability for everyone I know.  Only thing I've replaced is my igniter (running off thermostat).  The Lopi comes with a pretty good warranty as well.


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## Caribfan (Jul 21, 2013)

It sounds like the leyden is popular.  I have had a Mt Vernon for 2 seasons and love it.  It kicks out plenty of heat for my 2200 sq ft house.  We keep the zone upstairs at 63 and it kicks on occasionally.  Downstairs, where the stove is, is usually a balmy 72-74 running on "medium" - I have only pushed above the "medium" heat output setting on a couple of VERY cold days.  It gets a workout here in Maine. We run it all season - this year into June - and the only issue I have had is 2 pellet jams that i cleared in seconds by running a wire coat hanger up the chute.  I don't hesitate to recommend the Mt Vernon to anyone.


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## Jessica (Jul 21, 2013)

Thanks for all of the replies!   Sadly, there aren't many stores in my area, so going to more isn't really an option.  Any info/websites on BTUs vs sq footage that can be recommended would be great, thanks.


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## smwilliamson (Jul 21, 2013)

The Leyden is a fantastic stove and I would even suggest peeking at a m55 cast too. All in for 41 on the Leyden is a very good deal. One of my favorites for many years


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## dave1959 (Aug 21, 2013)

Lopi Leyden...

2400 sq ft split foyer, Lopi keeps us at 75-80 all season.
Stove is in the basement, The back bedrooms get a little cool on very cold night because its
hard to circulate the warm air evenly.
Never had a problem with the stove,.
We use about 4-6 tons a year. We treat the pellets as our primary
heat source and the heatpump as back up.
Here in Maryland we had a pretty mild winter last year and I'll bet
the heatpump did not come on moret han 20 times all season.


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## nksdad2007 (Aug 21, 2013)

I vote for the leyden.  We love ours.  It cut the oil bill way down, and i believe paid for it self in about three years.  Our installed price was in the ballpark of yours, 5 years ago.


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## scottvwgti (Aug 22, 2013)

I just installed the Mount Vernon last November, and I could not be happier with it.  We are heating about 2400 s.f. (single floor ranch) and I cut my oil usage substantially.  I have also had a few pellet jams in the auger. (easily fixed by inserting the cleaning tool into the chute to loosen the jam).  My wife and I decided to go with the MV even though it was a little but pricier because it is the focal point in the living room with the flat screen mounted above it.  I have realized a few cons since installing it.

1. The fan is quite loud, even on the quiet setting.
2. The hopper is kind of a pain to load.  The majority of the hopper is stored inside the fireplace, so you have to shove the pellets back to get a full load.

Hope this helps with your decision.  We bought ours at Black Swan in Newtown, and couldn't be happier with their work.


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## smoke show (Aug 22, 2013)

scottvwgti said:


> 1. The fan is quite loud, even on the quiet setting.


 That's very unusual with the MtV using dc motors its known as one of the quietest.


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## zrtmatos (Aug 22, 2013)

My signature says it all. I would go with the Leyden by Lopi. I have had good results with it and have found it easy to work on when needed. Mine is a brown enameled unit that I installed in our main level family room. Heats the rest of the house much better than I would have thought, 2 stories. I use a smaller Harman Accentra in the basement also. You may want to look into an alternate site for listings being resold; craigslist maybe?


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## scottvwgti (Aug 22, 2013)

smoke show said:


> That's very unusual with the MtV using dc motors its known as one of the quietest.


 
I guess I don't have anything to compare it to, but I notice I have to turn my TV up quite a bit.  Maybe I'll have the tech look at it next he comes out, maybe it is louder than it should be.


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## smwilliamson (Aug 22, 2013)

scottvwgti said:


> I guess I don't have anything to compare it to, but I notice I have to turn my TV up quite a bit.  Maybe I'll have the tech look at it next he comes out, maybe it is louder than it should be.


Is your blower set to quiet? Control setting in the user setting in the thermostat.


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## scottvwgti (Aug 22, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> Is your blower set to quiet? Control setting in the user setting in the thermostat.


 
Yes, I would say it was maybe 1/3 quieter than normal.  Don't get me wrong, I don't have to yell or anything to have a conversation in the room, I just thought it was on the loud side.


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## Mike D (Aug 22, 2013)

No problems with my Leyden except for replacing the igniter (but that's not unusual) - and it seems to burn anything I put in there. It currently heats most of my 2400sqft colonial. Best of luck.

Also - $4,150 for piping, installation, stove and hearth pad? I think mine cost more than that (with the installation) during the rush of 2008 - but is that for the enamel or cast iron version?


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## Speed3 (Aug 23, 2013)

My vote would be for the Mt Vernon.  Not sure why it doesn't get more love around here. It's a heck of a stove and is more efficient and higher btus than the Lopi (quieter too).


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## SmokeyTheBear (Aug 23, 2013)

Square feet  vs BTUs.  

BTUs measure what the stove can produce where as the square footage that can be heated (maintained at a fixed temperature) will vary depending upon the actual place being heated. 

A drastic example being place a 50,000 BTU output stove in a 1000 square foot room with the outside temperature being -20  and walls full of holes, not likely to feel much heat 5 feet from the stove. 

Plug the holes and it starts to get warm.   Where as have the stove set on its lowest setting which reduced the BTUs produced the same area is likely to not warm up enough.

In other words that square footage figure needs to be ignored.  You size a stove by doing a heat loss calculation and that is specific to the building to be heated.  It takes into account the actual temperatures where the building is and construction of the building.  You also need the stove to be able to produce that amount of heat on its middle heat setting.


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## slls (Aug 23, 2013)

Speed3 said:


> My vote would be for the Mt Vernon. Not sure why it doesn't get more love around here. It's a heck of a stove and is more efficient and higher btus than the Lopi (quieter too).


 
When they first came out, lots of issues.


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## Vinelife (Aug 23, 2013)

Love my Quad, don't have the MV, but wouldn't hesitate to buy one ..


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## MountainSean (Aug 23, 2013)

Speed3 said:


> My vote would be for the Mt Vernon. Not sure why it doesn't get more love around here. It's a heck of a stove and is more efficient and higher btus than the Lopi (quieter too).


My personal beef with the AE is two fold.
1. Too many sensors half of which are redundant but can still fail and cause the stove to stop and cause you more time and money to figure out where the problem is.
2. Too expensive for the parts. I understand that some parts are going to be more expensive than others and that cost and quality do often times have a correlation. However the price of almost all the parts in that stove are higher than what even Enviro parts cost and Enviro has always had parts well above the average for stove parts.

With those in mind, the AE is still a good well built stove that cranks out the heat


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## smwilliamson (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm not so concerned with the price of parts. Way I see it, if the company is profitable, they can build and develop new equipment, take the M55 for example... Should be no surprise that NOW Harman is making an upgrade to the Accentra. The Accentra has been the staple of fireplace inserts for almost 10 years and is their #1 selling item. The only competitor was the Mt Vernon which is also HHT... So until the M55 there is not much incentive. Mark my words...the M55 will knock the Accentra out of place, including the 52i. HHT is gong to enjoy slower sales. The bigger they are the harder they fall!


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## IHATEPROPANE (Aug 23, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I'm not so concerned with the price of parts. Way I see it, if the company is profitable, they can build and develop new equipment, take the M55 for example... Should be no surprise that NOW Harman is making an upgrade to the Accentra. The Accentra has been the staple of fireplace inserts for almost 10 years and is their #1 selling item. The only competitor was the Mt Vernon which is also HHT... So until the M55 there is not much incentive. Mark my words...the M55 will knock the Accentra out of place, including the 52i. HHT is gong to enjoy slower sales. The bigger they are the harder they fall!




Sounds like someone who may be selling Enviros....lmfao

I do agree that the M55 is a better product IMHO, but the Harman following and reputation is very solid and it will be a formidable challenge.


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## smwilliamson (Aug 23, 2013)

The down side to selli g product, my objectivness is now questioned


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## stovelark (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi guys-  I agree with a lot of the above.  The M55 is getting more and more buzz at the store, Enviro as a whole, very solid and quiet pellet stoves.  I sell a lot of CB1200 Quads still, not so much of the MV AE, too many bad experiences in the past. The M55's price point is better than the MV, that helps it too.  Lots of good stoves out there as long as theres good pellets to burn in them.


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## smwilliamson (Aug 23, 2013)

Or of you have an M55 it doesn't really matter...having good pellets that is


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## IHATEPROPANE (Aug 23, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> The down side to selli g product, my objectivness is now questioned


I was just busting balls (can I say that??)  A little off topic but I am hoping Hudson River starts selling a version of the M55


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## smwilliamson (Aug 23, 2013)

I keep hearing rumors of that.


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## stovelark (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi all-  good pellets always help.   Enviro makes H River's Davenport now and Regency's Greenfire and GCI60.  Never know who's next??


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## IHATEPROPANE (Aug 23, 2013)

smwilliamson said:


> I keep hearing rumors of that.


This year they introduced the Chatham a copy of another Enviro.  The only reason I prefer the Hudson River is my local shop with a good reputation carries them, the dealer with the bad rep (according to reviews online) carries the Enviros


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## stovelark (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi I hate-  Yes heard about the Chatham.  Great deal for Hudson River and your local shop.  I'm also assuming the dealer with the bad rep (according to online reviews) is the dealer and not the Enviros, ha.


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## IHATEPROPANE (Aug 23, 2013)

stovelark said:


> Hi I hate-  Yes heard about the Chatham.  Great deal for Hudson River and your local shop.  I'm also assuming the dealer with the bad rep (according to online reviews) is the dealer and not the Enviros, ha.


Yes, there seems to be issues with the dealer.


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## spyderman (Nov 16, 2015)

> Our dilemma is in trying to figure out which one is more reputable in terms of performance and warranty.  I have read horror stories about the Quadra Fire breaking down A LOT.
> It has been pointed out by both sales people at the two different stores that the Lopi is tested in WA state where it's colder (like CT winters), whereas the Quadra Fire is tested in Florida or CA (can't remember which one they said), so that might be why the rating is at 2900 sq ft.  The sales person said herself (For the Quadra Fire) said that for the specific reason the unit is tested in warmer weather, it may NOT heat up to that much, and really be around 2500 sq ft.  My husband doesn't buy that theory however, his point is that if it's 60 degrees, the unit will identify 60 degrees and heat accordingly.  Also, I'm not sure if this makes a difference (a sales person pointed it out), the Lopi is made in the USA where the Quadra Fire is not.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!!



I had older models that ran 15 years w/out a problem.  I bought one in a rental that was bottom end -- works perfectly no issues for 5 years.  3 years ago I bought the top of the line Mt Vernon AE ... everything is great except three things:  1) I breaks all the time, constantly, several times per winter.  My old stove burned 2 tons per year, this one has gone through 1/2 ton in 3 -- not due to efficiency, due to being unable to use it.   2)  Their warranty policy forces their dealers to be unavailable when you need them -- in the winter.  It is 6 months on parts.  So if it is April/May and the company has nothing to do, nobody calls for service because all the parts will be out of warrant by the time winter rolls around.  As a consequence, when winter starts they are doing routine maintenance books for months in advance.  So if yours does not work, forget about getting it fixed.  3) Customer service is useless -- they talk nice and do nothing.  This stove I bought brand new, had it installed by the dealer (like all my others), and it has never worked for more than short periods.  Total junk.


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## kappel15 (Nov 16, 2015)

The AE has 60,200 btu's max. Will heat 2400 to 3800 sq ft. But, as SmokeytheBear stated, a lot depends on the structure you are going to heat, and how efficiently it was built. And one of the most key issues in buying a stove is how good the dealer is after the sale. Find some customers of both dealers you have in your area and see how they did with customer service, and how many parts they keep on hand so you aren't waiting for parts to be shipped if you have an issue. kap


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## Wilbur Feral (Nov 17, 2015)

First, comments about square footage being unreliable are spot on.  Pure theory and marketing and totally unreliable across manufacturers as it depends on the building.  

As for stove choice, I hesitated to comment, but after owning an MVAE for six seasons now, and also owning an old Whitfield and now a Santa Fe, I would not buy an MVAE again.  The stove's design is just far too complex, and putting much of the "brain" in what I find to be a mediocre at best, proprietary thermostat, leaves much to be desired (in fact, it's just stupid, IMO). The stove does too much thinking without the ability to "tune" it, which makes it great for the first time stove buyer but disappointing once you learn much about how a stove works, because you are largely stuck with middle of the road average performance for almost any situation.  I'm also on my third stat in three years, on a stove that sits behind a very expensive UPS system and whole house surge suppressors.

Finally, I find that some of the "fit and finish" of the MVAE declines more than it should as the stove ages, with rattles becoming more common and the use of inexpensive screws and sheet metal where a slightly beefier hardware would have allowed for better tightening after servicing the stove.  It does not age as well as I would have expected, and runs quieter with both exterior side panels removed.  That does little for the Wife Acceptance Factor, though, so I battle the rattles.  The use of DC motors is a big plus, I agree.  But all in all, I think it's overpriced for what you get, and I would consider other stoves if it ever needs replacement.


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## gblaue (Nov 17, 2015)

I've had my Mt.Vernon AE since 2009. We heat our 22oo sq ft house with it completely. It does work hard, and well. Except for we have cracked 7-8 baffles, which have been covered under warranty, until this last weekend. Apparently, Quadrafire only warrantees it for 5 years. Now every time it cracks, it will cost me another $175. The shame of it is that Quadrafire knows that there is a problem with the baffle, and has made several changes. Apparently, not fixed yet. Last year was my 5the season with it. The year started off with a noisy feed motor. $120. Then the combustion blower started making noise. $270. Next the convection blower was surging. $270. While replacing the blower motor, I found that the connector pins that connect the blower motor to the computer, had basically disintegrated. Luckily I am a EE, with vast resources available to me, and I was able to replace the pins and connectors with something more heavy duty and appropriate. The only thing that hasn't gone on me yet is the autoclean motor. I have replace many igniters and thermocouples. You should keep spares on hand. 

I really like the stove, but it should be better than this at 5 years. And Quadrafire should honor all stoves that break the baffles, not just the first 5 years for stoves built after 2008.


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## Phil Do's fire. (Nov 19, 2015)

The quality of Quadrafire has went down hill since Aladdin industries sold out to Chinese investors. I loved my Quad but would not buy another. Lopi has been going downhill for years, neighbors have bought and sold newer units do to issues.


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