# Pellet mill.....anyone here have experience with them?



## Spartan (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello everybody. First post so go easy on the new guy! 

I have a decent supply of sawdust that I am now paying to haul away. Better still, I have two customers/friends who generate several 40 yard containers a week and THEY are paying to haul them away. Yes, I know that some farmer will kill for it but we are in the city (Toronto) and it cost to truck it ($350 to the nearest farm). 

I want to start converting my own sawdust into pellets and burning them in a boiler at home and work. Step one is to see if I can make pellets. I'm having a hard time finding someone who sells pellet mills in Ontario. If I can't, at the very least, I like to find someone who has a pellet mill in Ontario and will let me test my sawdust. If not, then at least find someone in northern New York (near Buffalo?) and if need be, go further. 

It's a shame that I have to pay to haul the sawdust away and pay for heat. 

Second part of the question for those who have their own pellet mills, how well do they work? How much do you get out? I see crazy production numbers but they seem to vary wildly. If I do go ahead, it's no use for me to sit there and feed a handful of sawdust to make pellets.

I would appreciate any and all help.


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## pete324rocket (Jan 3, 2011)

Or someone who has built one from scratch. I have some gears with flat teeth in the junkpile I might have to have a look at in the spring. Notice how the extrusion holes are always round. 'spose it would be tough to make but any sense in square holes(pellets) or spirals....just wondering.... By the way,there are plenty of youtube videos on the subject these days,and making them from leaves is interesting, but the work involved...is it worth the time?


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## smoke show (Jan 3, 2011)

from what I understand about the homeowner sized mills is that it takes forever to produce any amount of pellets.


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## burrman (Jan 3, 2011)

but if the homeowner fills his hopper and goes to work..comes home and wammo! bucket of pellets  lol


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## dragracer300 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a friend that has 2 a 5hp and a 40hp. He uses the small one around the farm to make pellets out of waste material like leaves and junk mail ect. He tried to use the big one to make pellets to sell. He makes skids and has a farm as well. He has a good supply of hard and soft wood dust but he said he couldn't produce enough to pay the electric bill. I take my empty pellet bags to him and he makes pellets out of them but he mixes other stuff with them. If you want to get rid of waste it may be a good deal but if your trying to make them and sell it may not be cost effective?


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 3, 2011)

I did a demo on one of the units like the ones sold on Ebay  (Made in China)  It had a cool little diesel engine.

Local guy had some and one that we could try out. We ran leaves, ground up paper, sawdust and other crap through it.

It would work fine for a home owner, IF you have the time to gather the leaves and other materials and then process them.

Its not a freeby for sure.

The leaves must be dried and then ground up, just the right amount of moisture added and then pelletized.

The Pellets must be placed on racks with screens to cool out and finish drying before placing in containers.

You can make pellets from grass too.

If you have some acreage or even a large yard, you can pelletize all the grass cut off the yard.


Its not a quicky process though.

These Pellet mills are not a cheap item to buy.  I looked at getting a mill but then factored in the cost plus the time to run the thing.

Was still far cheaper for me to buy the nut shells and use them.


Just my 2 cents worth.

Snowy


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## Don2222 (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello

  I hear that the real hardwood pellets take 3 phase electric power to compress them properly into pellets. So that is something a home owner cannot do. The small home owner mills I saw cost $20k that is too steep for me
Also I do not see leaf and grass pellets for sale in stores so I assume they do not burn as well and maybe have a high ash content?


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## vgrund (Jan 3, 2011)

People expecting to produce their own pellet heating fuel at home are IMO deluding themselves.  From the perspective of pure economics and the ability to create a fuel of sufficient quality, quantity and consistency, this is a process that only works on an industrial scale.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 3, 2011)

But the OP said he had pure sawdust which rules out needing a hammermill to reduce the mass to small size.  He only needs the pelletizer and some binder to help hold them together.  I priced the Chinese pelletizer with 20 hp diesel plus 3 sets of rollers and dies plus the hammermill and 2 extra screens.  The price including shipping to Charleston and then brokerage fees and a drop gate truck to my door was $4000 total!  Quite a bit below what some of these people want!
Now US made equipment is available from Buskirk.  It looks really nice and isn't too badly priced AND it is US made!


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## krooser (Jan 3, 2011)

looked at this stuff last year... priced a mill from China and it was $1800.00 delivered to the east coast. I'd have to truck it to Wisconsin.

The problem I have is a lack of time... I'm gone all week and my weekends are usually busy doing truck maintenance, etc. It would be fun to fool with.... and I have a free supply of sawdust if i need it.


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## vgrund (Jan 3, 2011)

A few rare exceptions may exist to the Home Pellet Mill economic and time equation (OP perhaps - sorry if I hijacked the thread with a generalization).  They are however likely to be very rare indeed once everything is considered.  I could be wrong, but isn't there also an energy intensive drying step necessary to normalize moisture levels of the feedstock?


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## turbotech (Jan 3, 2011)

dragracer300 said:
			
		

> I have a friend that has 2 a 5hp and a 40hp. He uses the small one around the farm to make pellets out of waste material like leaves and junk mail ect. He tried to use the big one to make pellets to sell. He makes skids and has a farm as well. He has a good supply of hard and soft wood dust but he said he couldn't produce enough to pay the electric bill. I take my empty pellet bags to him and he makes pellets out of them but he mixes other stuff with them. If you want to get rid of waste it may be a good deal but if your trying to make them and sell it may not be cost effective?



The only way I see it being cost effective is to power the mill using an engine that is fed from a gasifier that also burns the sawdust. But then you are always trying to clean the engine to remove the tar build up.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

Yea, unless you had a ready supply of GOOD raw material, it's more of a 'hobby' kind of thing.  I could get all the mulch from tree maintenance I wanted but you would have to hammer mill it and you'd still have higher ash because of the bark.  With the steady supply of kiln dried sawdust, you could easily work out a formula to get a consistent moisture content that is the key to success with the small mills PLUS the use of binding agent (starch).


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

vgrund said:
			
		

> A few rare exceptions may exist to the Home Pellet Mill economic and time equation (OP perhaps - sorry if I hijacked the thread with a generalization).  They are however likely to be very rare indeed once everything is considered.  I could be wrong, but isn't there also an energy intensive drying step necessary to normalize moisture levels of the feedstock?



Yes, to do it commercially, you have to cool the pellets and allow them to lose moisture.  At the home, you do it on wire mesh racks which is one more step in the process.  Perhaps, if you're lucky and have enough energy you can run the mill for 4 or 5 hours getting 100 lbs and hour and then you need an hour to hammermill the next batch.  You can use a cement mixer to blend feed stock, water, and binder while a volunteer (read that as WIFE) feeds the mill.  Then you need time to spread the day's take onto the racks and put them in a holding contraption for the night.  So for a day's work, you get maybe 500# of pellets.  Do it 4 times a week and you have a ton.  Read this whole thing as you need to be retired and still have some energy left.  I got tired today just unloading and stacking a ton of pellets in my garage!


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

pete324rocket said:
			
		

> Or someone who has built one from scratch. I have some gears with flat teeth in the junkpile I might have to have a look at in the spring. Notice how the extrusion holes are always round. 'spose it would be tough to make but any sense in square holes(pellets) or spirals....just wondering.... By the way,there are plenty of youtube videos on the subject these days,and making them from leaves is interesting, but the work involved...is it worth the time?



I think I saw them all! LOL! 

As far as I can tell from watching a ton of videos, the holes are straight through with a slight bevel on the leading end to compress them into position. Basically 1/16 of an inch of clearance, about a 100 rpm and lots of power. Point pressure amount is about 6,000 to 8,000 psi. 

Without going into too much detail, I have a complete machine shop (welder/lathe/mill) and several tons of steel (we did our own plant/machinery maintenance). I could if I want too design/build the mill but I doubt it will be worth my time. Just making the plate involves drilling a few hundred holes, probably a days worth of work, whereas you can buy them for a hundred bucks. Subcontracting it out to a CNC will still cost me 60 bucks an hour. Trust me, I have been beating my head to overcome the dirt cheap overseas labour but in the end, might as well buy their junk. 

And we still have the two main questions....will it work? Is it worth it production wise?


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## jtakeman (Jan 4, 2011)

Someday maybe, But more like when I retire and have loads of playtime(ha-ha)? Unless I find a used one on the reasonable side. Even if I couldn't make the whole season supply, Some is better than nada. Have to mow the lawn and rake the leaves anyway. Might as well use them for something besides land fill.

I have been lucky enough to see some larger mills. Someday hope to visit a production mill like NEWP or Tree Cycle. Differently interested!


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

Just a general reply to most posts...... 

I don't need to make the wood dust, I have it and I'm paying to haul it away and I know people who generate truckloads a week. The dust is already far below kiln drying and in the neighborhood of 3% moisture content. If anything, it's too dry and may need moisture. Apparently, the moisture acts as a bit of a lubricant to push through the holes. 

From what I read/youtubed, they come out at about 200 Fahrenheit. The only thing they need is some kind of half assed rotating dryer with a strong fan or a moving rack and fan or leaving them in a large steel drum to cool down for a day or two before bagging. 

Earlier on today, I was talking to one of my friends who generates a lot of dust. Apparently, a pellet mill was for auction. It ran on 50 hp 3 phase motor. Great for now but a year or two from now, it's useless (retiring).  

One can not run these things on home power and get any kind of production. At best, dipping directly into the main box one can get a 10 or 15 hp motor but that's pushing it. Better off with a gas motor. Plus that way one can take the "production" to the source of the dust. 

The issue is one of testing to determine...can I compress what I have and how cost effective is it (volume versus time).


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

BTW......

IF the pellet mill works out, then I'm going to ask for help in selecting a boiler/furnace. Right now, the Harman HYDROFLEX60 looks very interesting. ST105 looks a bit large. 

Just for the record, I have natural gas heating with a high efficiency furnace. It's costing me over a couple of thousand a year and that is keeping it at 62 at night, 64 in the day and 66 in the evening.  I don't want to know what it would cost me if if I upped those by 4-5 degrees. On the other hand, IF the pellet thing works, I will have all the heat I can possibly use...and then some.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> But the OP said he had pure sawdust which rules out needing a hammermill to reduce the mass to small size.  He only needs the pelletizer and some binder to help hold them together.  I priced the Chinese pelletizer with 20 hp diesel plus 3 sets of rollers and dies plus the hammermill and 2 extra screens.  The price including shipping to Charleston and then brokerage fees and a drop gate truck to my door was $4000 total!  Quite a bit below what some of these people want!
> Now US made equipment is available from Buskirk.  It looks really nice and isn't too badly priced AND it is US made!



Thanks for the name. I'm going to call them tomorrow. 

To be time effective, I think I need to make about 400 pounds an hour. If I burn 12 to 15,000 pounds then it will take me around 50 hours to pellet and bag/store.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 4, 2011)

Most decent commercial full mills will run over $500,000 to a million to build up. There is one I have seen advertised for sale in Southern Utah, I think on Craigs List, or one of the equipment sale sites. It's smaller and looked a little "Rube Goldberg" but could do the job, as I remember it's about $25,000. For those above the issue of electric phase is the HP requirements to run the equipment. Several 30-60HP motors are required to operate the equipment.

That said, if you have enough heat demand, I would look for a sawdust burner. There are several sawdust/chip burners out there that are very efficient and include things like dryer ramps and staged feed systems. While you can't burn yours and your neighbors production, you may get to the finish line without adding another 5-7 person operations. 

Alternatively, contact ALL, that is all, pellet producers within 75 miles and see if they are interested in buying your dust. See if they will even pick it up. Someone on the forum hauls from a mill to the pellet operation in the mid-west. He may chime in and give you the logistics.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> tjnamtiw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With a few people, you could maybe meet that rate.  I would have been happy with a couple hundred pounds an hour.  I was going to use the plastic sand bags, which are almost the same size as the pellet bags and then get the metal twist ties that you cinch up with a special tool that you hook and pull with.  

http://www.buskirkeng.com/


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## XXV-AK (Jan 4, 2011)

I was going to check these guys out next week This topic has been on my mind since I just paid 300 for a ton rrrr
http://www.alaskapelletmill.com/flat_plate_pellet_mills


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

XXV-AK said:
			
		

> I was going to check these guys out next week This topic has been on my mind since I just paid 300 for a ton rrrr
> http://www.alaskapelletmill.com/flat_plate_pellet_mills



Those are the Chinese ones.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 4, 2011)

XXV-AK said:
			
		

> I was going to check these guys out next week This topic has been on my mind since I just paid 300 for a ton rrrr
> http://www.alaskapelletmill.com/flat_plate_pellet_mills



Two simple questions to ask.... What is the point of origin of the manufacturing (didn't see it on the website) and second what is the warrantee on the "die" and how long does it take to change out?


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## jeffd3889 (Jan 4, 2011)

I like the ATFP250DE-Bare It looks like you could power it with just about anything!

then just find a way to control the moisture and consistency of the sawdust or what ever raw material you use.

a few days of work and you have a season worth of pellets, invest time with a partner and both of you could have a season of pellets in a week.


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## wingman1776 (Jan 4, 2011)

I do not own  pellet mill but done  lot of reserch on them. A lot of the smaller mills are made for makeing feed and grass pellets and do not hold up well makeing wood pellets. I have found  place that sells several types of mills. I think for personal use you should look at  a pto or diesel powered one the ones tht run on eletic motors are going to cost  lot to run. I feel  light industrial model would hold up best for wood pellets best price I have seen on one is from this web site.
http://www.stakproperties.com/index.php?p=3_20  they are not cheapest ones. they do have several types. this might a place to take a look at if you are going to get one.


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## BobMac (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan,
here's some info have more somewhere just have to find it
http://www.makeyourownpellets.com/pellet-info
http://www.buskirkeng.com/
http://forum.iburncorn.com/viewtopic.php?t=10726&highlight=homemade
homemade mill by farmer1 from IBC starts on page 2 http://s542.photobucket.com/albums/gg420/farmer1CaseIH2/?action=view&current=DSCN1202.flv

this should keep you busy for awhile 

Good luck  BobMac


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## XXV-AK (Jan 4, 2011)

True but if I'm making only  1-2 ton a year will they last to recoup my cost??


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## XXV-AK (Jan 4, 2011)

littlesmokey 
I will do that and post it shorly


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## littlesmokey (Jan 4, 2011)

I think one question of mine was answered. China, second would be none or 90 days. Rumor from a tool use site is they may be good for a couple of tons, but they can not compact enough.

Three or four years ago there was a lot of discussion of the small mills, most retired American made food pellet mills. Consensous was they wouldn't compress enough. The 4-6 thousand pounds is to release the lignin in the wood to act as the bonding agent (glue), the little units can not do that. Also the mill is one part. There's the drier and the hammermill, and the mixer and the..... get the point. You can heat for several years buying pellets for your investment and you will never recover the costs.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> With a few people, you could maybe meet that rate.  I would have been happy with a couple hundred pounds an hour.  I was going to use the plastic sand bags, which are almost the same size as the pellet bags and then get the metal twist ties that you cinch up with a special tool that you hook and pull with.
> 
> http://www.buskirkeng.com/



Funny you would say that. Actually, a bit scary! 

I was looking around to see what is strong, cheap and reusable. In the corner of the plant, lo and behold, I have three bags of sand from a finished project. Those bags are strong as hell so I phoned the supplier (lumber yard) and got the name of their supplier. I figured a 24 by 36 bag would hold about 60 pounds. At the limits at what my wife can lift to 4 feet. Or I may get two sizes and do a hundred for me and 40's for her (in case I'm away). The only thing is that metal twist probably needs a special tool. I can always use metal ties and pliers.

The details are fairly simple BUT I still don't have the horse or buggy.....LOL!



(Any chance do you work for the CIA and tapping into my mind? Let me know so I can wear my tinfoil hat! )


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

XXV-AK said:
			
		

> I was going to check these guys out next week This topic has been on my mind since I just paid 300 for a ton rrrr
> http://www.alaskapelletmill.com/flat_plate_pellet_mills



I found that site a coupled of days ago and went through it inch by inch. The guy might as well be on Mars for any hands on tests.

His prices look real good and particularly that un-powered ones. 

ATFP250T

or....

ATFP300T

I have a few 25 hp motors laying around and in the future, I can always retrofit a gas motor.

There might be an issue of shipping costs from there....and I want the hands on trial.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Most decent commercial full mills will run over $500,000 to a million to build up. There is one I have seen advertised for sale in Southern Utah, I think on Craigs List, or one of the equipment sale sites. It's smaller and looked a little "Rube Goldberg" but could do the job, as I remember it's about $25,000. For those above the issue of electric phase is the HP requirements to run the equipment. Several 30-60HP motors are required to operate the equipment.
> 
> That said, if you have enough heat demand, I would look for a sawdust burner. There are several sawdust/chip burners out there that are very efficient and include things like dryer ramps and staged feed systems. While you can't burn yours and your neighbors production, you may get to the finish line without adding another 5-7 person operations.
> 
> Alternatively, contact ALL, that is all, pellet producers within 75 miles and see if they are interested in buying your dust. See if they will even pick it up. Someone on the forum hauls from a mill to the pellet operation in the mid-west. He may chime in and give you the logistics.



I'm not interested in commercial operation. It's for my own use. I don't make enough dust to make it worthwhile for the big mills. 

Sawdust burner make insurance companies crazy. They consider them explosion hazards. They are okay with pellet boilers.


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## checkthisout (Jan 4, 2011)

$4000.00 = 15-25 tons of pellets, an easy ten years supply for me or say 4 years supply for East Coasty. 

This, barring the machine doesn't break and that you have good feedstock that doesn't require you have your feed rate set to 10 and ignoring the amount of electricity it consumes to make the pellets and the drying racks you have to build.......

In the end a chainsaw, splitting maul and wood stove would be a far better investment and probably less time.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

jeffd3889 said:
			
		

> I like the ATFP250DE-Bare It looks like you could power it with just about anything!
> 
> then just find a way to control the moisture and consistency of the sawdust or what ever raw material you use.
> 
> a few days of work and you have a season worth of pellets, invest time with a partner and both of you could have a season of pellets in a week.



Bingo. 

$1,800 plus a motor. I have spare electric ones and off shore gasoline/diesel motors are a grand for 20 hp. 

I don't need a "buddy" to buy it but what the heck, I can always do the Tom Sawyer thingy! I'll give them a seasons worth of free pellets in exchange for manual labour. My 20 by 5 by 8 cold room can probably hold 40 toms of pellets. 


BTW, dust from manufacturing is almost always dry to very dry (because of the high heat caused by machining). It's a lot easier putting moisture in then taking it out. Assuming I can convert what I have to pellets, the only thing I can foresee is the 200 F when they come out. A screen/blower should be able to deal with that. Dropping 50 degree on  something that small should be a non issue. Come to think of it,.a three hp dust collector with a 30-40 foot hose will do the trick.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

wingman1776 said:
			
		

> I do not own  pellet mill but done  lot of reserch on them. A lot of the smaller mills are made for makeing feed and grass pellets and do not hold up well makeing wood pellets. I have found  place that sells several types of mills. I think for personal use you should look at  a pto or diesel powered one the ones tht run on eletic motors are going to cost  lot to run. I feel  light industrial model would hold up best for wood pellets best price I have seen on one is from this web site.
> http://www.stakproperties.com/index.php?p=3_20  they are not cheapest ones. they do have several types. this might a place to take a look at if you are going to get one.



The economics start slipping away if I pay several thousand for the bigger mills. Plus there is a US made mill for 5.5 grand plus it needs power. That is the upper limit where this is worth it. Also, at that price range, I will design and build it myself. Other then a gear box (used commercial units), mills are a joke as far as technology is concerned.  

As for electricity...

25hp X .75 kw X $0.12 a kilowatt cost = $0.56 and hour. I'll hazard a guess that gas or diesel will cost 2-3 times more. Electricity cost is not the problem, it's output versus cost of machine.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> $4000.00 = 15-25 tons of pellets, an easy ten years supply for me or say 4 years supply for East Coasty.
> 
> This, barring the machine doesn't break and that you have good feedstock that doesn't require you have your feed rate set to 10 and ignoring the amount of electricity it consumes to make the pellets and the drying racks you have to build.......
> 
> In the end a chainsaw, splitting maul and wood stove would be a far better investment and probably less time.



Forget the log wood stove. Pellet boilers beat the hell out of them in terms of storage, controlled output and convenience. 

As for cost comparisons.....

Cost here is $220 plus a ton. Natural gas right now is at 7.5 cents for equivalent btu.That is a ten year low. Normally, it's 12  cents. 

Versus....

Material is free. At 400 pounds an hour, running costs are $2 an hour. If the project is 4 grand and I amortize it over 75 tons (10 years?) then it's 3 cents a pound.    

We both have to pack it away. So the only difference is the cost of labour in manufacturing. At 400 pph, lets say it takes 40 hours. Is my time worth $1,350? Five or ten years ago, not a chance in hell, now, yes. I'm semi retired. 

Last but not least, not giving a damn how high I set the thermostat is....priceless.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

BobMac said:
			
		

> Spartan,
> here's some info have more somewhere just have to find it
> http://www.makeyourownpellets.com/pellet-info
> http://www.buskirkeng.com/
> ...



Thanks for the links particularly the farmers home made.. Mills are not hard to make but I rather not. If I'm forced too because of cost, then I'll post the drawings and details.  

My hope that someone in here had one and was close to me is slipping away.


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## pete324rocket (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan. Sawdust is your fuel. Saw the comment about insurance and sawdust burners. Here is a link to a csa approved model.

http://www.canadianbiomassmagazine.ca/content/view/2088/97/

Didn't check the cost though. My dad built a sawdust burner and as a kid went to the shed with the pick to fill a bag to burn. Very hot but crude and smokey....but free heat,the best kind.It used step plates. We still have it. Depending on the cost of oil, the cost of a bio-burner could pay off.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> tjnamtiw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.mcmaster.com/#wire-twisters/=afzphe

The spring return twister is what we used.  You can twist tie a bag in about 5 seconds.  We bought the twist ties from them and then got the supplier's name off of the wrapper.  )  A LOT cheaper

No CIA here, but they are outside and on the telephone pole after all my letters to Obama and Pelosi


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 4, 2011)

Leaves work great.

I posted on this thread yesterday and after that I looked up a local guy who uses leaves for pellet fuel.

He loads his ridding lawn mower onto a small trailer and then cleans the local parks after the leaves drop.

The City is totally ????????????? over this. His response when asked WHY he does this ???

"Oh I just enjoy doing it"

He has a little factory set up in his small barn.

He has almost perfect materials after the leaves go through his mulching bagging mower.

He runs the stuff through the pellet mill, lays it on screens to dry and barrels it up.

The Mower was a Craigs list bandit that he got cheap and the Pellet mill is one of the little Chinese diesel units.

He keeps the parks leaf free (for free to the city) and burns this stuff all winter.

Leaf pellets work great.

To make this sort of thing work, you must be dedicated to doing the job.

The cost of Pellets is certainly a factor.

The time it takes this fellow to make his winter supply varies with the weather and his ambition.

A couple hustle up weekends and most of the raw materials are in, then the pelletizing gets going.

When the weather is dry the work concentrates on getting the leaves/raw stock.

Once the weather turns wet, then the work moces indoors.

This guy even mows yards for free, just to get raw grass stock.

Now this is not for everyone for sure, but if you want to take the time to do it, the returns can be fairly quick.

One thing for sure, its totally renewable resources and not using up anthing thats tough to come by.

Now the average in town family could easily send junior out to mow the neighborhood yards for free and get all the raw stock that you need.

Once you got your equipment your set.


Unless you live in an area that does not have leaves/grass you can most likley get all you want for free.

Most people have to pay to get rid of this stuff. The city will likely not care if someone mows  the park or sucks up the leaves as they have to pay a crew to do it.

Oh dont worry, there will always be plenty of work for the city crews, and your little leaf sucking wont take their job away.


If you do this and someone comes along and asks what your doing,  just give them a smile and say "Cummunity service"  works every time.


Making pellets from junk mail and such takes more machinery ( impact mill) to make it useable)

Not sure about how all the ink and other stuff will burn or ??????


For sure, the leaf and grass thing works.

Its not a 15 minute project though.

What is your time worth ????  Crunch the numbers and see hpw long it takes you to make the $$$ to buy your winters fuel.

Now factor in the cost of the tools, gas for the mower and electricity/diesel for the Pellet mill.

With this though, you will not be dependant on a big box store for your fuel. There will only be a fuel shortage if you dont make your pellets.


Juast some thoughts.

Snowy


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> I think one question of mine was answered. China, second would be none or 90 days. Rumor from a tool use site is they may be good for a couple of tons, but they can not compact enough.
> 
> Three or four years ago there was a lot of discussion of the small mills, most retired American made food pellet mills. Consensous was they wouldn't compress enough. The 4-6 thousand pounds is to release the lignin in the wood to act as the bonding agent (glue), the little units can not do that. Also the mill is one part. There's the drier and the hammermill, and the mixer and the..... get the point. You can heat for several years buying pellets for your investment and you will never recover the costs.



You're right on the lignin release, smokey.  From what I've read, most people now have accepted the fact that you need a 'binding agent' to hold the pellets together since the lignin isn't present in large enough quantities.  You can get it here >  http://www.mataminc.com/woodfuel.php

Yep, a hammermill is needed although some people use a chipper and run the stuff through a couple of times.  The drier is for home use cobbled together as a bunch of wire mesh racks.

It HAS to be a labor of love or purely 'something to do in retirement' or you have to love tinkering and mastering another piece of machinery before you croak.  You can guess which category I'm in if I researched this much.


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## Spartan (Jan 4, 2011)

pete324rocket said:
			
		

> Spartan. Sawdust is your fuel. Saw the comment about insurance and sawdust burners. Here is a link to a csa approved model.
> 
> http://www.canadianbiomassmagazine.ca/content/view/2088/97/
> 
> Didn't check the cost though. My dad built a sawdust burner and as a kid went to the shed with the pick to fill a bag to burn. Very hot but crude and smokey....but free heat,the best kind.It used step plates. We still have it. Depending on the cost of oil, the cost of a bio-burner could pay off.



Wow, great burner. Thanks for the link. What I see as the huge upside of that burner is simply burning hammered wood chips without pellet re-processing. 

You can't store sawdust that easily. It's about 6 to 7 pounds density and if it gets airborne, it's explosive. Sure, I can run it at the plant where I have a separate boiler room but it certainly not a home product. When I shut down the plant, then what? The big boss will break this keyboard over my head if I introduce dust into the house. No, I can't run it outside either. I'm in the 'burbs

But.....

As a pellet burner, it may have a lot of merit. The only problem may be it's size and output level (too high for a house). Ideally, that burner should be run in separate shed.


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## pete324rocket (Jan 4, 2011)

Just my own personal experience,but my Dad would get his buddy from the mill drop a load of sawdust(big truck) and he would use our snowblower to fire it in the shed that he built (just a lean-to) on the back end of the garage,with a new door into the garage. The shed had removable panels on the ends so as to maximize airflow to dry it.When I went out in the winter to get sawdust,I would use a feed sack and with a pick axe,break away chunks but it was very easy and could quickly fill a sack ready for the hopper. Only downside was that it tracked on your boots some,but for cost and simplicity,it worked very well. Also,snowblowers don't mind sawdust. I think they test them with sawdust anyways at the factory. Oh,I should mention that the sawdust wasn't fine furniture type but from a sawmill. Too fine might be a problem. Nowadays,especially here in New Brunswick,wood chips and waste are super valuable and hardly free but I don't know what a load might cost. It might still be worthwhile,if you could find a source.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Sawdust burner make insurance companies crazy. They consider them explosion hazards. They are okay with pellet boilers.




I have never heard that anywhere. Mind explaining who told you that and under what circumstances. Sawdust in a wood processing plant blowing around is a hazard, but burning it, totally different issue.


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## lpgreg (Jan 4, 2011)

Wood bricks might be an option to consider.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/355670667/wood_brick_making_machine_with_high.html


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## checkthisout (Jan 4, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Checkthisout said:
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At the end of the day, making your own pellets is not convenient or efficient in terms of storage VS just cutting up and splitting some logs. 

In other words, yes you can build your own car but sometimes there are things to be said about mass-manufacturing. 

Wood pellets are one of those things.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 4, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> At the end of the day, making your own pellets is not convenient or efficient in terms of storage VS just cutting up and splitting some logs.



To all those who still burn logs >  Many of us have been there and, although it's the 'MANLY' thing to do, after 40 years of doing it, you can keep the bugs, the cutting, loading, splitting, hauling, more bugs, chainsaw grief (I wore out 4 of them), sharpening chains, and all the other BS that goes with splitting logs.  I can go to bed at night knowing I don't have to get up once or twice to feed the beasts and I will wake up to a warm house thanks to the programmable thermostat.  How's that thermostat work on that log burner?  Oh, it's called a 'wife',  IF YOU'RE LUCKY.


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## checkthisout (Jan 4, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Checkthisout said:
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Of course but the thread is about making your own pellets. I argue that making your own pellets nets you a process that is less efficient, more time consuming and more costly than simply having a wood stove.


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## turbotech (Jan 4, 2011)

I think the point here is that he pays $350 per load to remove the sawdust. So it is not even free..........it is negative $350 for him + the cost of natural gas heat. Nevermind free chunk wood and people even cutting, splitting, and stacking for free because he is still paying the $350 per load.

The point is to use a product instead of paying to remove it and then paying for a product AGAIN that he just removed. 
A few places sell the rollers & dies. If you have the motors then I would start looking for a gear box and talking to a welder if you don't have the equip yourself.


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## checkthisout (Jan 4, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

> I think the point here is that he pays $350 per load to remove the sawdust. So it is not even free..........it is negative $350 for him + the cost of natural gas heat. Nevermind free chunk wood and people even cutting, splitting, and stacking for free because he is still paying the $350 per load.
> 
> The point is to use a product instead of paying to remove it and then paying for a product AGAIN that he just removed.
> A few places sell the rollers & dies. If you have the motors then I would start looking for a gear box and talking to a welder if you don't have the equip yourself.



I have looked into it already. The best I idea I had was using an old truck rear-end as it's my opinion that you need something that beefy in order to get the necessary bearing size and metal stiffness to make one of these things.  I have a milling machine that I could use to make the die but it's not worth the time.....yet. Maybe next year if winter gets really bad and I am trapped here at home.


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## turbotech (Jan 4, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> turbotech said:
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That is exactly what I was thinking too. Pick up a rear with 3.xx to 4.xx ratio and weld the spiders so you don't get the 2x effect. What alloy would you use to make the plate and rollers?


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## Snowy Rivers (Jan 5, 2011)

As much as I think making pellets from leaves, grass and such would be way cool, I have crunched the numbers, looked at the work involved and all the other fooling about.

This is why I run nut shells through my stoves.

8000 pounds of the stuff for $115. It takes me less than two hours to get the shells, run them up the mt to the ranch, upend the truck bed, fill the barrels and wheel them into the basement.

Done deal.

Its not perfect by any means, but it sure is cost effective.

Have to clean the stoves a tad more often, but sooooooooo what.

Snowy


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Spartan said:
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My insurance agent. He phoned the underwriter and apparently the underwriter fell off his chair! LOL!

Just for your information, in many states/provinces/cities, it's ILLEGAL to have open flame burners in wood working facilities. That is why I bought a building with a boiler system. When I was renting, I was forced to modify the overhead heaters with an outside air source. The issue is airborne  dust at high enough concentration become explosive. Do not confuse fine dust with wood chips. Dust from wide belt sanders have the consistency of sugar icing or baking flour. 

BTW, I'm not "guessing" here. This is my livelihood.


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Checkthisout said:
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LOL! 

Been thee, done that. I use to burn 5 tons a season before I started business. Wife and I spend at least an hour a night playing with the wood stove. That's besides work in processing the wood.

If I was to do that, I would install a massive system like the Garn. Unfortunately, that needs a house designed around it. 

There is a brilliant in between solution. There are a few manufacturers in Europe who make combo units where you toss in the the logs and when their finished, the pellet start feeding. I also think they are gasifiers. The best of all worlds.


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

turbotech said:
			
		

> The point is to use a product instead of paying to remove it and then paying for a product AGAIN that he just removed.
> A few places sell the rollers & dies. If you have the motors then I would start looking for a gear box and talking to a welder if you don't have the equip yourself.



Welder....and a 54 inch knee mill...and a 48" lathe. Even if I didn't, I can supply drawing and have other bid and make the components. Actually, there are only four components to the mill. Shaft, housing, plate, rollers. Bearing and gearboxes are off the shelf. On the scale of complexity to what I have done before, this is a 1 out of 10. Besides, based on the links and my research, I _can_ find the mills that fit my budget. 

The issue, the ONLY issue is......can I convert what I have and how fast? I was hoping that this thread would help me find someone close by. It appears that very few people make their own pellets.


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

Duplicate....


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## littlesmokey (Jan 5, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> littlesmokey said:
> 
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Don't mean to disappoint you but I have been working wood for over thirty years. I own my own shop and I heat it with a stove, and it is legal and has never bothered my insurance company. Why???? My stove is in a separate "building" a concrete block structure, Heat is piped into the working area. My insurance carrier WAS comcerned about the dust. but centralized dust collection and air filters take care of that issue. You are in Canada, so things may be different there, but if I had an insurance carrier that was so knicker-twisted, I'd be looking for another carrier. Sure as you are sitting there if you have a problem, they goin'a getcha.

Oh, and by the way, Underwriter is Insurance-speak for clerk. Same things as in Health insurance down here.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 5, 2011)

Just a little observation, many lumber mills and paper mills heat with the saw dust they produce and don't do anything but fill the hopper with the material. Several schools in Northern Washington and Montana are heating with chips taken from the forest logging site, so you don't have to repaint the horse for it to run fine.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 5, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> Of course but the thread is about making your own pellets. I argue that making your own pellets nets you a process that is less efficient, more time consuming and more costly than simply having a wood stove.



Well, YEA!  That's why I have contributed to the thread.......  I agree on the more costly than a wood stove but MY point was that there's more to a wood stove than throwing a log into it.  I didn't add the cost of a truck but it's a real cost to haul wood too.  I don't know how you would compare 'efficiencies' between the two if you truly look at all the steps to reduce a tree in the forest to a rack of wood beside your stove.


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Spartan said:
> 
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When I said my insurance had a problem with a saw dust boiler, you said......._."never heard that anywhere"._

Now......_My insurance carrier WAS comcerned about the dust._ 

Neither here or there. Flame, sawdust and insurance companies don't mix where I am.

Now back to pellet mills.......


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## Spartan (Jan 5, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Just a little observation, many lumber mills and paper mills heat with the saw dust they produce and don't do anything but fill the hopper with the material. Several schools in Northern Washington and Montana are heating with chips taken from the forest logging site, so you don't have to repaint the horse for it to run fine.



I don't know about schools but EVERY mill and veneer plant that i have visited had separate building for their chip/sawdust boilers...and then pumped the heat into their kilns or buildings. 

I'm not sure why this is even a discussion.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 5, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> littlesmokey said:
> 
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Yup, that's the way it's done, even with coal or natural gas or propane, or whatever.... Can't understand why anyone would want to invest in a mill that will not payback for several years, when you don't have to. You have the fuel at hand, just get the right burner and enclose the furnace. Or don't you have the space. Four grand invested is a whole lot of bought pellets, or a good lead on a boiler/furnace.


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## turbotech (Jan 5, 2011)

I think he said he needs to heat the shop and his house. That would be two sawdust burners and two buildings. Pellet burners can be found a lot cheaper.
At the rate it is costing to have the sawdust trucked out I would think the pellet mill would pay for itself in no time.


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## B-Mod (Jan 5, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> XXV-AK said:
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I got a quote from him on the PTO powered one, about a month ago. Shipping charges was.......over $1000 to Central WI, nuff to stop me from looking..............


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 5, 2011)

B-Mod said:
			
		

> I got a quote from him on the PTO powered one, about a month ago. Shipping charges was.......over $1000 to Central WI, nuff to stop me from looking..............



Holy Cow!  It doesn't cost that much to have the same one shipped from China!   :lol:


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## B-Mod (Jan 5, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> B-Mod said:
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I know I had to send him a second email asking him if he typed it correctly, lol............


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

I am getting my own pellet mill from http://www.pelletmill.net . Model zlmp 200, also requires a customs broker to bring into the country unless you have an importers licence
but looking at around $700 for his services seems easier than the customs hassle. i have a steady supply of sawdust from local industrial estate so no problem there. 
I have seen all the utube vids of cheaper chinese models and decided if bringing one into the country i might aswell get  one specifically designed for wood. almost double
the cost of cheap one but worth it. roller/die life of 2000 hours, compared to cheap models 300 hours. I did look into american models but 60hz is not compatable in australia
I will let ya know how it goes with density of pellet and production.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> I am getting my own pellet mill from http://www.pelletmill.net . Model zlmp 200, also requires a customs broker to bring into the country unless you have an importers licence
> but looking at around $700 for his services seems easier than the customs hassle. i have a steady supply of sawdust from local industrial estate so no problem there.
> I have seen all the utube vids of cheaper chinese models and decided if bringing one into the country i might aswell get  one specifically designed for wood. almost double
> the cost of cheap one but worth it. roller/die life of 2000 hours, compared to cheap models 300 hours. I did look into american models but 60hz is not compatable in australia
> I will let ya know how it goes with density of pellet and production.



Can we keep in contact by e-mail? I experimented with a one and made some pellet from mdf and particle board sawdust. It wasn't particularly fast and since then, I learned from someone who has a high volume mill that I need 40 watts per pound for mdf/particle board about 50 watts per pound of production for oak and maple hardwood. In other words a 7.5 kw powered machine will make about 150 pounds an hour. Keep this in mind when calculating the real production rates of your machine....or the bullsh!t some sites spit out.  

$700 fr brokerage? Are you sure it's only the brokerage and not duties/taxes? I pay about $50 for brokerage fees and then whatever import taxes.

I'm keenly interested in the nodel you bought since I intend to buy the same size. The only differnce is that I have a lot of spare electric motors   and I might as well use them.

This thread can land up buried into the back pages. If you are interested in exchanging info, send me your e-mail by personal mail and then I'll send you my e-mail.

BTW...did you order extra plates and rollers?


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

the customs brokerage fee includes all tariffs, stamp duty's and taxes, unloading and container fees. hence much easier to go through a broker than work out payments myself


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

in regards to electricity usage for producing pellets this machine will be run in a factory where my family business runs, so all electricity is tax deductable.
Yes i did also order spare set of roller and die at a cost of $80 each.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> the customs brokerage fee includes all tariffs, stamp duty's and taxes, unloading and container fees. hence much easier to go through a broker than work out payments myself



That makes more sense. What made you trust this company over any other? When are you getting your machine? 

BTW, I didn't realize you  were online. I edited my previous post.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> in regards to electricity usage for producing pellets this machine will be run in a factory where my family business runs, so all electricity is tax deductable.



The reason I wrote that in my post, was not about electricity rates, but rather production volumes. At 150 pounds an hour, it's SLOW. I like 500 pounds per hour but then, the price for the machines rises way up there.


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

i liked this company due to email response with sales team (very friendly and patient with questions) also their model's look more industrial 
and specifically designed for wood pellet production where most cheaper chinese models are for food pellet production. i have not ordered as of yet
 still waiting on broker to confirm with customs officials over detail and fee's I"m making sure of total costs before purchase so no surprises.


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

i know what you mean with production rates but as I'm running this in a family business i can basically make pellets anytime. 
if it works out ok i could always add the other production line machines in at a later time, which would provide a more streamlined production
but for now just being able to produce a pellet is satisfactory for my needs.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm going to send them an e-mail for their ZLMP-300 without electrics. I have spare 11kw and 19 kw motors and I want to know how that will affect production. Plus without the electrics, it may bring the price closer to my budget. 

Did they tell you anything about hardwood production? From what I gathered from other sources, you need a deeper die to keep the pellets in there for longer in order to heat them up and release the lignens.


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

not sure if you actually noticed but the ZLMP 200 produces between 100 - 120 KG per hour not pounds


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> i know what you mean with production rates but as I'm running this in a family business i can basically make pellets anytime.
> if it works out ok i could always add the other production line machines in at a later time, which would provide a more streamlined production
> but for now just being able to produce a pellet is satisfactory for my needs.



I'm eying all the sawdust my friends are paying to haul away and wonder if I could make a business out of it. Unfortunately this is the kind of business that needs huge volumes in order to make money. It's not a "small business" to retire with.


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

no i never asked regarding hardwood as i really only require softwood pellets. Although i don't see it being a problem their machine looks very capable .
did you check out the video on the model page ? 
those looked like hardwood pellets.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> not sure if you actually noticed but the ZLMP 200 produces between 100 - 120 KG per hour not pounds



I did and while a bit optimistic from the people I spoke too who are in the business, it's not as outrageous as some of the other claims from other companies.  Which is a good indicator for the company.


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## Spartan (Jan 21, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> no i never asked regarding hardwood as i really only require softwood pellets. Although i don't see it being a problem their machine looks very capable .
> did you check out the video on the model page ?
> those looked like hardwood pellets.



I did check the video but there is simply no way to know what that production rate was. If you are using softwoods, I'm going to guess that's it going to be substantially faster and maybe even faster then mdf production. The commercial guy I spoke with uses maple/oak scraps and both are on the "hard" end of the wood scale.

If your wood has high resin content then it "should" lubricate and bind faster.


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## bugzme (Jan 21, 2011)

That is true you never really know until you try which is also why i am only getting the small production model
i want to know its going to work and produce a good pellet before going further into production.
That said if my total comes to $2700 for machine, freight, customs it pays for itself in 3 years as there is only
one pellet producer here in Sydney Australia and @ $650 per ton its worth checking out this self produced option.


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## littlesmokey (Jan 23, 2011)

Stopped following this thread some time ago, so if I am stepping on toes, I apologize up front. For the original poster, you might want to check out the following thread and some of the great ideas put forth there;

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/69036/

Seems the discussion there is quite different than this thread and deals with a practical answer. Even the stoves that are from Europe would be certainly cheaper than the pellet mill process. One example is pretty detailed and I am going to have a fabricator friend build two small units in exchange for some of my sawdust to heat his shop.


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## bugzme (Jan 31, 2011)

Just an update, I have purchased my "zlmp 200" and spare roller/die set at a total of $2175 USD. Customs broker calculates total for his services including all taxes, levy's $600 AUD
Now just waiting on Shipment.


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## bugzme (Feb 21, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> I'm going to send them an e-mail for their ZLMP-300 without electrics. I have spare 11kw and 19 kw motors and I want to know how that will affect production. Plus without the electrics, it may bring the price closer to my budget.



How did you go? they get back to you with a reasonable price?


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## 2400 (Feb 21, 2011)

There is a BIO Burner that is supposed to be able to burn sawdust, woodchips, silage, etc.  I can't rememebr the name but seems like a better alternative then  trying to convert to pellets to burn.


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## mascoma (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm late to the party but how are you going to dry pellets to burnable levels, even kiln dried lumber sawdust has way more moisture than the 4-8% needed.  

And did I read that right???  One of you is making pellets out of MDF sawdust??? do you know what is in that stuff?  I would not burn those pellets near my home.


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## Spartan (Feb 22, 2011)

mascoma said:
			
		

> I'm late to the party but how are you going to dry pellets to burnable levels, even kiln dried lumber sawdust has way more moisture than the 4-8% needed.
> 
> And did I read that right???  One of you is making pellets out of MDF sawdust??? do you know what is in that stuff?  I would not burn those pellets near my home.



That's me and yes, I am aware of what is in it. The "secret" is to have complete combustion so as to break own such things as ureas into it's molecular state (C.H.O.N.). I burned MDF boards in a downdraft boiler with secondary combustion and there was no telltale smoke or odor whatsoever. According to the manufacturer, the secondary combustion achieves 2000F. I also know of a company that burns tons of this stuff daily and the most toxic thing they produce is small _traces_ of chlorine molecules. People who burn coal have FAR, FAR more toxins to worry about.

The moisture level of of sawdust is in the 3-4% range because the machining process cause a lot of heat plus at the same time, there is a lot of air introduced by the dust collector. Normally, solid wood (oak, maple) would be in the 7-10% range.


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## Spartan (Feb 22, 2011)

littlesmokey said:
			
		

> Stopped following this thread some time ago, so if I am stepping on toes, I apologize up front. For the original poster, you might want to check out the following thread and some of the great ideas put forth there;
> 
> https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/69036/
> 
> Seems the discussion there is quite different than this thread and deals with a practical answer. Even the stoves that are from Europe would be certainly cheaper than the pellet mill process. One example is pretty detailed and I am going to have a fabricator friend build two small units in exchange for some of my sawdust to heat his shop.



VERY interesting link. However, it's not practical. The biggest advantage of pellets is automation, high energy density for volume and relative safety.


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## Spartan (Feb 22, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> Just an update, I have purchased my "zlmp 200" and spare roller/die set at a total of $2175 USD. Customs broker calculates total for his services including all taxes, levy's $600 AUD
> Now just waiting on Shipment.



Throw a teak on the barbie and I'm coming over! LOL! When you get it, can you take a few minutes to make some videos? Lately, I'm buried in other things and haven't spent too much time on this project. I like to revive it fairly soon and be ready for next heating season.


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## mascoma (Feb 22, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> mascoma said:
> 
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Pellet burning temps do not approach 2000F.  Besides what comes out of the vent I would keep an eye on what is inside the vent pipe.


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## bugzme (Feb 24, 2011)

Make a video ? For Sure.  I picked up a new post hole digger on ebay for $103 and plan on using it to mix the sawdust with water in a 44 gallon drum then using a extractor to relocate the prepared sawdust into a silo. I made the silo from a 44 gallon drum and built an auger feed that attaches to the bottom to feed the prepared sawdust into the pellet mill. I used one of the spare augers from the post hole digger to make the feed unit and modified it to attach to a variable speed motor. That way i can adjust the feed rate and let it go till the silo is empty. I recieved the bill of lading for my machine yesterday so its on its way :D


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## Spartan (Mar 1, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> Make a video ? For Sure.  I picked up a new post hole digger on ebay for $103 and plan on using it to mix the sawdust with water in a 44 gallon drum then using a extractor to relocate the prepared sawdust into a silo. I made the silo from a 44 gallon drum and built an auger feed that attaches to the bottom to feed the prepared sawdust into the pellet mill. I used one of the spare augers from the post hole digger to make the feed unit and modified it to attach to a variable speed motor. That way i can adjust the feed rate and let it go till the silo is empty. I recieved the bill of lading for my machine yesterday so its on its way :D



I'm looking forward to seeing it. Too bad you are so far away. I'm an engineer with a full machine shop and I would have been glad to help in exchange for gaining knowledge on your pellet mill. 

My wife still thinks I'm crazy with natural gas prices at far below market value. The minute the gas bill doubles, she will complain why I listened to her. Can't win.....

Anywho.....I sent you a pm with my e-mail. Please let me know how it works out. 

BTW....here is s system that I want to duplicate....but not he price. Something like this can produce an awful lot of pellets and it should be more of a "community" ownership item were 3 or 4 like minded guys get together and produce their own pellets. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg7ZqwIJidY


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## checkthisout (Mar 1, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> BTW....here is s system that I want to duplicate....but not he price. Something like this can produce an awful lot of pellets and it should be more of a "community" ownership item were 3 or 4 like minded guys get together and produce their own pellets.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg7ZqwIJidY



Dude, that has clear tubes for watching the sawdust, buttons and flashing lights and everything!


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## bugzme (Mar 1, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&hl=en&v=421fHJEBScQ  this is the video i designed my set up from except my feeder tube is connecting to a silo which sits higher than the pellet press. my feeder tube is the same as in the video and this pellet press comes from the same company that i am getting mine from in china (not stak properties).


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## Spartan (Mar 2, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&hl=en&v=421fHJEBScQ  this is the video i designed my set up from except my feeder tube is connecting to a silo which sits higher than the pellet press. my feeder tube is the same as in the video and this pellet press comes from the same company that i am getting mine from in china (not stak properties).



I've seen/studied that video several times. That is much larger then what I was looking at doing. It's more along the lines of what I would have done if I kept my business and running a million btu boiler.  

 I want to reduce the entire set-up into a small trailer. Take the trailer to the source of wood, pull out the pellet mill from the trailer, make pellets and dump them on the trailer, trailer the pellets to the house, repeat as required, then put the pellet mill back on the trailer and take it into storage. 

Gas/diesel pellet mill with an oversize plastic barrel beside it and a small screw feeder taking the wood dust up and into the top of the mill. Right now, I'm, debating if the way to do this is with a hydraulic system and bypass the very expensive and troublesome gear reduction. 

Mehh...baby steps. Let's see what you can do.


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## Spartan (Mar 2, 2011)

Checkthisout said:
			
		

> Spartan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They need flashing lights to convince you it's worth 20++ grand.


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## bugzme (Mar 2, 2011)

What size unit were you planing on getting spartan? the small unit i am getting weighs 300kg i would never get that in and out of a trailer. i was also thinking of setting mine up in a trailer but figured its easier to load the sawdust into the trailer and bring it to the factory where the pellet press will be installed. its much easier to get 2 ton of sawdust into and out of a trailer than a 300kg machine. as for the sawdust feeder tube i am running it on a 240volt motor with a electrical modulator to vary its speed, my brother is making that for me (I ain't so good with electricity since i got a shock fixing a washing machine) I figured a variable speed auto feed was best as the machine can only produce pellets at a rate relative to feed input speed. I saw in many youtube videos people dumping bucket loads into them and you can hear the machine choaking through it and others who slowly feed handfuls but couldn't keep the rate constant, I wouldn't want to overload a machine as it would cause excessive wear and tear and could effect the quality of pellet produced. Once my machine arrives i will set it all up and run some tests and get my settings right then make a video showing how it all worked out. I will try and see if i can get some pic's of my feeder tube this week for ya.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 2, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> What size unit were you planing on getting spartan? the small unit i am getting weighs 300kg i would never get that in and out of a trailer. i was also thinking of setting mine up in a trailer but figured its easier to load the sawdust into the trailer and bring it to the factory where the pellet press will be installed. its much easier to get 2 ton of sawdust into and out of a trailer than a 300kg machine. as for the sawdust feeder tube i am running it on a 240volt motor with a electrical modulator to vary its speed, my brother is making that for me (I ain't so good with electricity since i got a shock fixing a washing machine) I figured a variable speed auto feed was best as the machine can only produce pellets at a rate relative to feed input speed. I saw in many youtube videos people dumping bucket loads into them and you can hear the machine choking through it and others who slowly feed handfuls but couldn't keep the rate constant, I wouldn't want to overload a machine as it would cause excessive wear and tear and could effect the quality of pellet produced. Once my machine arrives i will set it all up and run some tests and get my settings right then make a video showing how it all worked out. I will try and see if i can get some pic's of my feeder tube this week for ya.



I don't know if your brother knows about AC TECH, but they make some very good, low cost variable speed drives that convert 220v single phase to 440 3 phase.  I've been using one at home on a pottery wheel for 6 years.  $125.  And we used them extensively at work.  Never had a problem.


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## Spartan (Mar 3, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> What size unit were you planing on getting spartan? the small unit i am getting weighs 300kg i would never get that in and out of a trailer. i was also thinking of setting mine up in a trailer but figured its easier to load the sawdust into the trailer and bring it to the factory where the pellet press will be installed. its much easier to get 2 ton of sawdust into and out of a trailer than a 300kg machine. as for the sawdust feeder tube i am running it on a 240volt motor with a electrical modulator to vary its speed, my brother is making that for me (I ain't so good with electricity since i got a shock fixing a washing machine) I figured a variable speed auto feed was best as the machine can only produce pellets at a rate relative to feed input speed. I saw in many youtube videos people dumping bucket loads into them and you can hear the machine choking through it and others who slowly feed handfuls but couldn't keep the rate constant, I wouldn't want to overload a machine as it would cause excessive wear and tear and could effect the quality of pellet produced. Once my machine arrives i will set it all up and run some tests and get my settings right then make a video showing how it all worked out. I will try and see if i can get some pic's of my feeder tube this week for ya.



About the same size as yours. As for the trailer, slide in, slide out with a tilting trailer and winch. I've done it a few times with a big table saw and a downdraft sanding table. Those were far less rugged then the mill and I'm absolutely sure it will work. Heck, that's how they got a 40,000 pound press out of a container and onto the ground. They slid it on a huge truck and then the truck tilted it's bed and they slid the press to the ground.  It simply needs a strong tubular frame about a foot larger in every direction to make sure it wont tilt over AND take the sliding. 

Sawdust has a very low density and you will be moving far less then you think unless you have a huge trailer. Figure about 7-8 pounds per cubic foot versus 45-48 pounds a cubic foot for pellets. Plus it's messy. I rather go to the source, open the door bins and fill my barrel and let it chug away. Any given dust container can have up to 8500 pounds of dust and almost always, the area is already covered with dust (no cleanup).  

As for the variable speed auto feed, that's a great idea. Feeding one shovel at a time is for the Chinese. The only problem I have is that I need some kind of alternator on the motor to drive a small screw feed. 

Of course, this is all in my head....but thankfully, most of the time I'm right...or close.


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## bugzme (Mar 3, 2011)

here are the pictures of the feeder tube: assembled: auger internal: auger length: disassembled: 
I used 105mm (external diameter)pvc and 110mm T pieces as this is still just a test unit but if it handles the heat off the pellet press will remain as it is
cost to build $24 in pvc parts, 100mm Auger spare from posthole digger.
In the assembled pic you cannot see the bolt sticking out which attaches to the motor as it is rather short for now
I will be welding a longer bolt to it once motor is ready and i know what its shaft size will be.
on the opposite end there is a lug which the auger end sits over to keep it centered inside the pipe.
it works well turning free hand so shouldn't have any probs with motor.


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## bugzme (Mar 3, 2011)

also the pvc used is 3mm thick with heat rating of 70*C


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## BobMac (Mar 3, 2011)

Spartan,
Why mess with augers??Its just saw dust, setup a vacume system.
Thats how I move corn and bulk pellets.

http://cornvac.com/mobile.html

Just a thought  

Good Luck  BobMac


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## bugzme (Mar 3, 2011)

you felt how much pressure comes out of an industrial extractor? would blow the sawdust through the machine and also over feed it


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 3, 2011)

I think you are right on using an auger feeder to feed the mill.  It's a good steady feed and no worries about blowing dust everywhere or needing filter bags.  I might suggest searching the internet for sales of plastic processing businesses near you.  Many, many are going out of business as the Chinese steal more jobs.  I've been to several and was amazed at the prices being paid for equipment.  You can literally buy things at a couple of cents on the  dollar.  I spent my time shaking my head in disbelief after having spent my career buying new equipment and knowing what it cost me.  Even using a small hopper loader might work to give you drops of a few pounds at a time.  I saw them being sold for $10 each!  

http://www.meadoworksinc.com/   is just an example.  Search for plastic processing plant auctions.  You could come home with a Bridgeport mill for $500.


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## Spartan (Mar 3, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> here are the pictures of the feeder tube: assembled: auger internal: auger length: disassembled:
> I used 105mm (external diameter)pvc and 110mm T pieces as this is still just a test unit but if it handles the heat off the pellet press will remain as it is
> cost to build $24 in pvc parts, 100mm Auger spare from posthole digger.
> In the assembled pic you cannot see the bolt sticking out which attaches to the motor as it is rather short for now
> ...



That design wont work. Sawdust binds very easily and there is no way in hell you are going to get saw dust to flow into a tube and onto the augur.  You need to open one end and expose the augur well into the material in order to break it up. Believe it or not, I have a dump bin which drop the dust from the bottom. I have seen it bind across THREE FEET and the lift truck has to give it a nasty shake to break it,. 

The best way to do this is to have a small motor with a quarter inch spring steel bar rotating horizontally and then the augur transfers it vertically. I spent about half an hour trying to find a video on youtube that shows an integrated bin and pellet mill. I couldn't find it and I will try again. What they do is rotate a bar on the bottom and as it rotates, it refills a small box on  the bottom. From there, the augur picks it up and dumps it into the mill. It's not really as hard as it sounds if you are going to do a "pro" system. And it's not expensive either. Any sheet metal shop can make it for you for a few to maybe several hundred dollars. 

My "barrel" design was going to have the augur exposed on the bottom, about a foot long. Basically, several shovel full to fill the barrel and when it gets down to half way, fill again. If I bring it to the next level, I would make the system that I described above. Then the issue is that I now have to move a 300kg press off the trailer AND a 100kg bin feeder. Doable....but my back is going to scream for disability pension. Worse still, this is suppose to be something that I can do ten years into my retirement. I need to give it a bit more thought as to "portability".

FOUND IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_H2hR_lJIo

Notice the undulating saw dust. That is simply a small bar rotating and pushing more material into the augur hole.  Neat and smart design. Now I got to figure how to make it portable.


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## Spartan (Mar 3, 2011)

BobMac said:
			
		

> Spartan,
> Why mess with augers??Its just saw dust, setup a vacume system.
> Thats how I move corn and bulk pellets.
> 
> ...



That is a VERY GOOD idea BUT.....you can control the rotation to control the feeding rate but how do you control how much material is on the top, before the rotating vane?  You have to set up a proximity switch and then start the vacuum on and off. In the end, you will burn out the vacuum motor. Augurs are mechanically stupid things that for the right application are unbeatable. 

BTW...that rotating vane is common in the wood industry. It's on the bottom on most of those massive industrial dust collectors. Basically, you can transfer the dust out of the silo even if it is under pressure. Needless to say, they are much bigger and made of heavy sheet metal.


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## Spartan (Mar 3, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> you felt how much pressure comes out of an industrial extractor? would blow the sawdust through the machine and also over feed it



Actually, it's perfect design for "pressure" systems. As the vanes rotate, they seal off the pressure and the entire system is balanced because at no point the system open to free air. Look at it closely. As it rotates, it exposes no more then two vanes which balance each other out. That is the system that almost all industrial dust collection systems use.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 3, 2011)

If you are going to be loading the hopper by hand, then give the bottom of the hopper very steep sides so that the sawdust doesn't BRIDGE OVER (the technical term for what Spartan was calling 'binding').  The angle is different for each type of material and is called the 'angle of repose'.  If it's steep enough, the dust should slide down into your screw, BUT Spartan is right in saying if you had a section of half pipe that the dust could fall into the screw more easily, it would make life better.  Same thing as our pellet auger systems.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose

http://www.civl.port.ac.uk/britishsteel/media/BSCM HTML Docs/Angle of repose.html  (don't know why it won't put the   on each side of HTML)


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## bugzme (Mar 4, 2011)

I see what you mean about having to agitate the sawdust in the silo, i had considered this before making the silo but thought if it becomes necessary i can add it on after. my silo "cone" has dimensions of 680mm diameter at top with a depth of 300mm ending in a 105mm flange. also my silo will be under pressure as i am using the dust extractor to fill the silo which will give it the cyclone effect and wont actually be filling the silo before commencing the pellet process. I intend to run the pellet mill and auger feed prior to relocating the prepared sawdust into the silo "IF" the sawdust does compress in the silo i will add an agitator which can easily be done with an old washing machine motor and the other leftover auger from my posthole digger (it came with 3 of them). when the silo is finished i will also take some pic's for you so you can see how i added the extractor parts into the drum design.


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## Spartan (Mar 4, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> I see what you mean about having to agitate the sawdust in the silo, i had considered this before making the silo but thought if it becomes necessary i can add it on after. my silo "cone" has dimensions of 680mm diameter at top with a depth of 300mm ending in a 105mm flange. also my silo will be under pressure as i am using the dust extractor to fill the silo which will give it the cyclone effect and wont actually be filling the silo before commencing the pellet process. I intend to run the pellet mill and auger feed prior to relocating the prepared sawdust into the silo "IF" the sawdust does compress in the silo i will add an agitator which can easily be done with an old washing machine motor and the other leftover auger from my posthole digger (it came with 3 of them). when the silo is finished i will also take some pic's for you so you can see how i added the extractor parts into the drum design.



I'm not clear on how you are designing it. From what I gather from your dimensions (and I can be wrong), you are going to have a fairly small silo. Also, if you are going to put the system under pressure, you will have sawdust blowing out. 

Make it, try it and make a video. If it works, great, if not, at the very worst, all you lost is a bit of time a little bit of money. 

Do you have access to a plastic 200 liter drum? Or a regular steel drum? If your's fails, then try my idea. Even if you use two thirds of a barrel while the other remains as a "filler" you will still have about 20 pounds going through before it needs refill. Which at 200 pounds per hour, would give you about 6 minute refill cycle. Of course you can cheat and weld another half barrel on top but be aware, for every ton you make, you will be shoveling a ton.....and feel every damn inch of it if you go higher. *ouch*

BTW.....if you don't have one, find and buy a large aluminum grain or snow shovel. Regular shovels are too small and you spend more energy lifting it's mass then dust.


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## bugzme (Mar 4, 2011)

He he I see I have confused you by not fully describing the silo. I got a 44 gallon steel drum and an industrial extractor (the type with a metal band in the middle and a bag above and below that). I then disassembled the extractor and have welded the metal center band to the lid of the drum (this piece creates the cyclone effect) one of the bags will remain attached to the top of the metal band to allow the pressure to escape there (the bag is held vertical by a rod). I then will remove the base of the drum and weld the cone there. cone dimensions are 680mm at widest point narrowing down to 105mm covering a total distance of 300mm. the motor/blower part of the extractor will be used to extract the dust from a second 44 gallon drum that will have a posthole digger mixing the sawdust with water and any binder (if required). the motor/blower then blows the prepared mixture into the metal band welded to the silo. I will post some pics once I have this complete.


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## bugzme (Mar 12, 2011)

Ok my silo is complete, I tested the extractor/ blower today and it can easily blow wet sawdust up to 5m vertical so it will have no trouble entering the silo. I did install the feeder tube but encountered a problem, the motor was not reversed polarity and caused to feed in the wrong direction and jammed the unit. i disassembled it and cleaned it out which was when I realised it was spinning clockwise, When the feeder tube became blocked the silo did bridge up. I will change the motor polarity and retest next weekend, Hopefully with the silo being under pressure and constant vibration from feeder tube will stop the bridging otherwise an agitator will be installed. My pellet mill is arriving this week hope customs goes smoothly and will have the unit before the weeks end. Will keep you updated. In the pic of the silo I have not put on the top bag as of yet, you can see the blue section at top, that is the section off the extractor which creates the cyclone effect. It is welded to the 44 gallon drum lid and the cone is welded to the bottom.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 12, 2011)

On the hoppers where I worked, we installed small tubing at the base of the cone through which we could blow shots of compressed air to break up bridging, if it occurred.  Something to consider.


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## bugzme (Mar 12, 2011)

Will try that, it sounds alot easier to install than an agitator system


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 13, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> Will try that, it sounds alot easier to install than an agitator system



It worked well for us to dislodge plastic regrind flakes, which are a real SOB.


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## Bill Bennion (Mar 13, 2011)

bugzme said:
			
		

> Will try that, it sounds alot easier to install than an agitator system



Try mounting a massage chair vibrator to the outside of the cone.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 13, 2011)

Bill B said:
			
		

> bugzme said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, you just gave me an idea for my inserts since they always have a hard time feeding the entire hopper load no matter how much polishing, waxing, spraying, or praying.  it's the nature of the beast for inserts.  Rig that sucker up to vibrate when the auger gets power.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Or I could use my wif............ oh, never mind..................................


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## bugzme (Mar 13, 2011)

I don't have a massage chair so i will try the compressed air trick. I'm thinking... instead of adding tubing it would be easier to just drill a 6mm hole and make a collar to cover the hole (like the pellet fine filtration set up some of you have made) then just uncover the hole when it bridges and insert an air gun nozzle into the cone that will allow directional discharge of compressed air.


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## tjnamtiw (Mar 13, 2011)

That should work and it will allow you to 'sweep' the area of the bridge.

We had ours set up on a timer and it would swirl air around in a circle but compressed air is very expensive (really) so your idea is a good one.


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## Countryboy1966 (Oct 6, 2011)

Curious on where these systems are now?  Did they become sucessful?


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## jdempsey (Oct 6, 2011)

And what happens when one should purchase one of these pellet mills and the pellets that are produced are the quality of natures heat or infernos.

Theres a reason you dont see leaf or grass pellets sold commercially more than likely, low BTU and extremely high as content.


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## Spartan (Dec 2, 2011)

Any updates? 

Bugzme?

As for me, I went to see a small working pellet mill. The small ones are an absolute waste of time. One is better off to het a job as a Walmart greeter and then buy the pellets.


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## tjnamtiw (Dec 2, 2011)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Any updates?
> 
> Bugzme?
> 
> As for me, I went to see a small working pellet mill. The small ones are an absolute waste of time. One is better off to het a job as a Walmart greeter and then buy the pellets.



I tried to get a job as a WalMart greeter but I couldn't say 'Welcome to WalMart in Spanish and Farsi!!   :-S 

Higher ash content with these pellets is a given so one must be ready to deal with more frequent cleanings as part of the commitment.  I agree it is a labor of love or a challenge to do the impossible!  A lot of work UNLESS you can pool resources with a group of pellet users.  That's the ONLY way it makes economic and energy usage sense.


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## Spartan (Dec 3, 2011)

tjnamtiw said:
			
		

> Spartan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Or buy a HUGE house that uses a lot of energy! Al Gore, are you listening? 

I found 3 small pellet mills for sale. All of them were for sale with "time" related excuses. Making a bag every hour or so is pathetic use of time. The upside is that two of them made some pretty good pellets. 

Although I like the idea of "endless free heat".....unless one invests at least several thousand for an electric 25 hp mill, it doesn't make "cost of time" sense. Even with free material and adding some basic value for labor, I have to consume at least 8 tons a season to make sense. 

BTW...what's wrong with a Walmart greeters? How else can I find a 80 year old girlfriend?


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## tjnamtiw (Dec 3, 2011)

:lol:  :ahhh: 

The pellet mills I have seen for sale are priced WAY to high compared to what I could have bought one for directly from the source, China.  These people think that just because they got screwed, they should screw me!  The real key to getting some output is the binder.  You definitely have to devote time and hopefully have a bunch of kids to 'volunteer' or fellow burners.  Otherwise, you need to be retired and have absolutely nothing else to do.


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## Hoval (Jan 5, 2012)

Ok so is anybody still here?  I have purchased a pellet mill from China and I am waiting for delivery.  I will continue to post about my plans and exp[erience if anyone is still there.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 6, 2012)

Hoval said:
			
		

> Ok so is anybody still here?  I have purchased a pellet mill from China and I am waiting for delivery.  I will continue to post about my plans and exp[erience if anyone is still there.



Heck yea, keep us posted!  If you need a source for the binder, > http://www.mataminc.com/woodfuel.php

Did you hire a broker to get it through customs and delivered to you?

Did you order several spare die plates?

I hope you also got the hammermill and extra screens as well.

20 HP diesel version?

My quote for both and 3 sets of each spares plus broker fee and drop gate delivery was right at $4000 two years ago.  How did you do?


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## Hoval (Jan 6, 2012)

Yes I am using a broker to get it through customs; all the fees come to like $375.00.  I ordered two sets of 8 MM dies and one 6 MM set plus two rollers.  I plan on making mostly 8 MM pellets but I got the 6 MM just for a change.  I am getting a 15 HP Brush Master chipper/shredder/hammer mill from Home Depot.  At $999 delivered I think that it will work for me.  I will need to fabricate a smaller screen as this is quoted to make 1/4 " pieces, but one of the reviews said that it would produce dime size pieces.  For my process I will need 1/4" or smaller.  I ordered the SKJ300T PTO Tractor drive pellet mill.  I have an old Case tractor with a 52HP pto and I thought why spend the money on a power plant when I could spend it on a larger pellet mill. I am spending $2150 on the mill delivered to customs in New Jersey, plus the broker with delivery to upstate New York.  Every situation is different, what works for me may not work for you.  I am taking a different route to make my pellets.  

My source of material comes in what I call ripper strips (waste material from a local hardwood dealer that cuts hardwood to your dimensions.  The by product is strips of lumber up to 20 feet long, usually 5/4â€ thick and anywhere from 1/8â€ to 4â€ wide.  This is all without bark, kiln dried, and furniture quality clear hardwood.  The man will deliver to me three bundles at a time for $30.  Each bundle is about 6â€™ in diameter and weights between 2 to 4 tons.

I plan on a one person production line.  The mill claims to produce 800# plus per hour.  That means that I will need to put 13.3# of material into the chipper per minute.  I will transport the output through a 4â€ PVC pipe (lengths will vary from 10â€™ to over 50â€™) into a 2HP dust collector (Harbor Freight) that I have to vacuum the output.  This unit (my VacJector) is a pass through that will inject the output into the cyclone separator over the pellet mill.  I will need to send a photo of how I transformed the dust collector into a cyclone using a large flower pot and tin.

The pellets will fall into a metal wardrobe (you know the type found in old farm houses that had no closets.)  This is about 6â€™ tall 30â€ wide and 22â€high.  I have installed a 6â€ squirrel fan to inject outside air to cool the pellets.  I will call this my horizontal cooling tower.  I plan on opening the two front door of the tower and put a panel between the doors to provide about 44â€ of height for storage.  This will allow about 800# of pellets to be made at one time so I donâ€™t need to turn on an off the pellet mill but I can continue to operate until full so I donâ€™t lose the heat in the die.  I am still thinking that this will take a couple of hours but I donâ€™t know for sure until I try.

I have completed a 2â€PVC line from where I plan on making the pellets through my cellar into a 400# horizontal transfer station.  This will be powered by a Home Depot vacuum that will suck the pellets about 100â€™ from the production to near my storage area.  I will be able to store 6 Tons in my storage bin and 1 ton in my hopper.  I will also be able to move my pellets from one bin to another by a vacuum and a Portable Corn Vac.  Google this as it is the greatest thing since sliced bread for moving pellets from one spot to another.

Hope this is of interest.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 6, 2012)

Definitely interesting!  Heck yea, with the old tractor sitting there, why not use it!  Sounds like you also have a great source for raw material with no bark and very little ash.  It IS kiln dried so you'll have to add moisture somewhere along the way as well as binder, and then have a good grain moisture meter to measure it.  
So you're pellets will be larger in diameter than normal ones.  Not sure if it really makes any difference, actually.  
In your research, did you see that you may also have to do some reaming/polishing of the holes in the dies?  They evidently are pretty rough coming from China and the pellets will hang up in them otherwise.  
So they claim 800# an hour but that is probably feed stock for animals.  Actually, that's why the duty is so low on the pellet mills.  They are classified for farm use.  From the pellet machine forum that I belonged to, you can probably cut that in 1/2 or less.  Still, it should satisfy your needs quite well.
I worked in the plastics processing industry all my life so I can appreciate your conveying system.  Actually, there are a multitude of auctions going on of defunct plastics processing plants and the conveying systems go for peanuts.  Went to one a few months ago and it was amazing to see how cheaply equipment was sold for.  I purchased a lot of new equipment and know the costs.  You might want to google for auctions.
Keep us posted!


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## jtakeman (Jan 6, 2012)

Pulled up a chair. Grabbed a drink and some popcorn! Definetly interested, I hope you do a good show and tell for us! ;-)


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## Hoval (Jan 6, 2012)

Thanks for the reply.  I purchased a wood moisture meter a year ago that seems to work very well.  I have plans to introduce water into the bottom of my cyclone by small pressure spray heads.  I think I will have a selection from one of the local farm stores that I can change as needed to provide the proper moisture.  The standard for pellets in most boilers and stoves with adjustable start and burn amounts is between 6 & 8 MM.  We have become accustomed to the 6 MM as it is the only produce that I can find in the stores.  My burner is adjustable in several ways so I think that the burn will work out well.  I have chosen the 8 MM as my standard because I will be chipping my raw product and it will be larger than sawdust.  However the chips of wood that have been crosscut and beaten by the Hammer Mill should be relaxed fibers that will compress very nicely. 

I found a great site for prepping the rollers and die.  You use a mixture of soybean and sand blasting sand to clean and polish the unit.  I my opinion the process of making pellets is a function of creating a smooth surface that will allow the pellets to fall into an auger to feed the burner.  This is more important that the compression.  Sawdust will burn, wood will burn, wood chips will burn but none will slide into an auger without additional assistance. I realize that the pellets must hold together and be of proper length as well as being from a clean source with minimal fines.  

I misquoted the output of the mill that I ordered.  Alaska Pellet Mills claimed this unit to have an output of between 660# and 880#. (I did not order this through them) However it is still between 11 and 16 pounds per minute of input.  I am still thinking of the lower output but I may be wrong if I use the 8 MM die and get the proper compression.  I will be happy to get 400# per hour  or 6.6 # per minute of good quality pellets.

As previously stated what works for my may not work for you.  My plan is to keep it simple but workable for one person to operate.  I think that conveyers and other product movers could be very helpful but I wanted to try this on a small budget that would keep one person busy and provide a reasonable output.  

I showed my conversion in previous post on this board.  I think that I may have been the first to do a full conversion of my boiler to pellets.  I am now going â€œALL INâ€ in an effort to drop my heating and hot water cost to under $100. Per ton including raw material, labor, fuel and a reasonable time to amortize the cost of the equipment.  You may look up previous post if interested.


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## Hoval (Jan 7, 2012)

Beautiful day in upstate New York right around 50 F and sunny. Please look above on the forum to see the photo of BUGZME tower and holding tank. I attached some photo's of my cyclone tower and the two HP motor that is from Harbor Freight (made in China) I replaced the plastic collector bag on the bottom with a 19" flower pot. I then cut a hole in the bottom of the flower pot and attached tin metal sheets to form a funnel. I used a old inter tube from my son's bike as the divider and seal between the upper portion and the flower pot. My hope is that as I blow wood particles into the top unit that the cyclone effect will separate the wood from the air pressure and allow the wood to drop into my pellet mill. I did try the unit when I had it set up and I was getting some air out the bottom but with little pressure.


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## Hoval (Jan 7, 2012)

I built a table top for the scaffolding that I have with a plan to set the cyclone and collector motor on it. I am not sure that this will get me enough height as this is about 53" to the bottom of my table top and the top of the pellet mill is also 53" high. I will need to get the pellet mill to find out how high the output is on the mill as I am trying to get it as high as possible so that I can let it fall into my horizontal cooling tower. I do have several inches between the bottom of my cyclone and the bottom of the rack that holds the cyclone. I may make room to allow the funnel up through this rack and raise the pellet mill. As this is a work in progress only time will tell. My mill is East of Hawaii and West of Mexico heading for the Panama Canal.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2012)

You've definitely done your homework and have come up with a good scheme to keep the process flowing, which can be a drawback if not really thought through.  I can see your tendency to use the 8mm size given the raw material and your furnace's ability to use whatever you throw at it.  With the 8mm, it should keep your lbs/hr higher.  I wonder about the ability to compress them as well as the 6mm, but again, it probably doesn't matter with your stove as long as the roll and convey.  

Can't wait to see it running.  A YouTube video is definitely in order!


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## B-Mod (Jan 8, 2012)

Keep the info and details coming, I am watching this thread closely. Thanks for the info.......
PS, I want to see that tractor powering that mill, that is the setup I would use also, as I have a few tractors around, lol.......


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## Hoval (Jan 8, 2012)

Thought I would sent some photo's of the horizontal transfer box. It is 48" X 24" X 24" attached to the wall and ceiling. It is a vacuum box that will be driven by a Home Depot Rigid vacuum. The plan is to suck pellets thorough a 2" PVC pipe into one end of the box (see the intake in the upper section of the shot of the open box.) Once the box is full I will shut off the intake line with a twist valve and open one of my distribution ends of the 4 way drain at the bottom of the box (see photo) The box will now become a pressure box by moving the hose in the vacuum to the output blower. I should be able to empty the pellets into my 6 ton storage bin or my 1 ton daily hopper or let the pellets drop into a bucket.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 8, 2012)

Looking at your 3 Way Valve, I thing you have it upside down to get a smooth flow of pellets down and over to your bins.    Also, if you plan on blowing pellets by pressurizing the box, I seriously doubt that will work, sorry to say.  I hope it does but I'd bet against it.  NOW if you blew into the opposite 'T' end, it might suck the pellets out of the box and blow them down the pipe.  It will take some playing around to see how it works, that's for sure.
Still interesting as all get-out!

Never did hear if you are using binder.


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## Benski (Jan 8, 2012)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Hello everybody. First post so go easy on the new guy!
> 
> I have a decent supply of sawdust that I am now paying to haul away. Better still, I have two customers/friends who generate several 40 yard containers a week and THEY are paying to haul them away. Yes, I know that some farmer will kill for it but we are in the city (Toronto) and it cost to truck it ($350 to the nearest farm).
> 
> ...



I know I'm late, but I submit this thread as a reference:  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/19619/

There is a canadian distributor for the French machine and they are called Granulart in Neuville, QC (the guy speaks English by the way).  I have visited his work shop and I think his machines get the job done.


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## Hoval (Jan 8, 2012)

I put the three way in like that so I could blow the pellets from one side to the other.  I did not want to have a fast flow but controled with pressure.  I don't know if this will work but as I said this is a work in process.  I do not have plans to use a binder at this time but I will need to see how things work when I get the Mill.


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## Hoval (Jan 8, 2012)

Thought you might like to see my daily hopper for pellets.  The one is liooking into a empty bin and the other is with 2000# of new pellets in it.  This will last me between 2-3 weeks depending on the weather.


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## Hoval (Jan 14, 2012)

What an amazing world we live in. I have been tracking the ship that my pellet mill is on from the time it left China. I have watched it move on course as it spent the last 14 days in the Pacific Ocean. Today at 1:10 PM I watched as it went through then it pulled out of the Gatun Lock on the Eastern side of the Panama Canal. We think that to make a pellet of wood out of small pieces of wood is a hard thing to do.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 14, 2012)

Hoval said:
			
		

> I put the three way in like that so I could blow the pellets from one side to the other.  I did not want to have a fast flow but controled with pressure.  I don't know if this will work but as I said this is a work in process.  I do not have plans to use a binder at this time but I will need to see how things work when I get the Mill.



You can also get binder from www.makeyourownpellets.com.  They used to have a forum but the owner told me that he took it down from lack of interest.  It's basically starch but from everything I've read over the years, it makes pellet production a LOT easier.  The mills just don't get hot enough to get the lignin to bond.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 14, 2012)

Hoval said:
			
		

> What an amazing world we live in. I have been tracking the ship that my pellet mill is on from the time it left China. I have watched it move on course as it spent the last 14 days in the Pacific Ocean. Today at 1:10 PM I watched as it went through then it pulled out of the Gatun Lock on the Eastern side of the Panama Canal. We think that to make a pellet of wood out of small pieces of wood is a hard thing to do.



Out of curiosity, how did you do that?


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## Hoval (Jan 14, 2012)

This site is a site that locates all ships at sea. I was able to reduce it to my one cargo ship that is some of the time recording it position automatically. This also works for many cruise ships and many other ships.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?centerx=120.3575&centery=36.093&zoom=12

I also went to the following site that is real time but refreshed at 30 and 60 seconds of ships entering the different locks in the Panama Canal. I was there 5 or 6 years ago and it is incredible. The ships drop or rise 40 to 50 feet at each of the three locks in Gatun. You can see the two sets of locks side by side as some times a ship is going up while other times a ship is going down. I have only been to Gatun but their are two other locks that you need to go through to get to the Pacific Ocean.

http://www.pancanal.com/eng/photo/camera-java.html

Hope this works for you.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 15, 2012)

That is absolutely amazing!


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## jtakeman (Jan 15, 2012)

Wonder if the somalian pirites use that too?


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 15, 2012)

j-takeman said:
			
		

> Wonder if the somalian pirites use that too?



I wouldn't doubt it and they probably are using the excess smart phones we send them for IED'S.


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## Hoval (Jan 15, 2012)

If you think that those sites are the greatest that the Internet has to offer, well I have a site that will tell you the score of todays football game before it even starts.


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## tjnamtiw (Jan 15, 2012)

Hoval said:
			
		

> If you think that those sites are the greatest that the Internet has to offer, well I have a site that will tell you the score of todays football game before it even starts.



OTB???    I guess we all knew about Tebow's fate before it happened!  I think he played the game without an offensive line last night.  The other game was probably the best game I've ever seen.


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## Hoval (Jan 20, 2012)

My ship has come in! Or so the shipping website says, it is in the river between New York and New Jersey. No one has called me to tell me that my Pellet Mill is here but I am sure that I have the most important package on that whole ship. I have hired a company to get it through customs and to my transporter. This should be done by tonight or in a month or two. I will let you know. In the mean time I have been working on a storage power cooler that will hold between 5 and 6 tons of pellets and I will be able to cool pellets and dry them with forced air. I bought a 3' x 12' piece of metal roofing and cut slits across the width to allow air to be pushed up through the metal. I supported the underside with scrap strips of lumber so it will hold the weight and allow the air to go the full 12'. I will connect an old hot air furnace fan to the one end that could give me 4 speeds of air movement. I will probably start with just 2 speeds to start with. This will allow me to blow room air up through newly made pellets in my long term storage bin. I think that this will give me 12 weeks of pellets to get through in very cold weather. I will still have an extra ton in my daily hopper so make that 14+ weeks. I will take some picture's in the near future.


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## Hoval (Feb 11, 2012)

I received the Pellet Mill yesterday, just a little over a month after I ordered it. The packaging was 1/2 fiberboard and the bottom was in bad shape as well as one of the sides.  The mill has 3" C shaped steel as a base and showed no damage.  The light metal that covers the gears had a small hole in it but that is only cosmetic.  The mill is built like a tank, mosely 1/2" or better steel and it showed no damage to the main parts.  It cost me an additional $475.50 to get the unit through the ship yard and customs.  This included a $343.50 charge for Terminal Handling and Storage.  This in part is my fault as I did not know that I needed to get several original papers from the company that I purchased it from and it took days after the Pellet Mill arrived in New Jersey.  Live and learn or pay the man.  

A while ago I said that I would post photo's of the storage bin cooling floor that i was working on.  I have the 12' X 3' sheet of roofing that I cut slits into and the bottom showing support of strips of wood.  I ended up with all 4 speeds of the furnace fan operational, each controled by a switch.  The fan discharges under the sheet metal roofing and then blows up through the slots in the roofing.  My intent is to be able to put warm pellets into the storage bin and then provide additional cooling and drying for them.  I am going to see what I will need to do as far as how to handle the pellets that have just come out of the pellet mill.  I have a horizional cooling tower that will hold about 500# of pellets but my concern is that this will not be enough as the pellet mill would cool down while I move them.  I may need to adjust that volume so that I can continue to make pellets for a longer period time between sending them for storage.


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## B-Mod (Feb 12, 2012)

Cool, keep up the posts, very interesting!


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## Hoval (Feb 14, 2012)

B-Mod asked a while ago for photo's of the tractor powering the mill.  Notice in photo #1 the 3' yard stick om the rear wheel. In photo 2 notice the yard stick on the front wheel.  The hood is over 6' tall and the back wheels are close to that while being 18" wide.


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## B-Mod (Feb 14, 2012)

Awesome vintage Case you have there! Not much in the way of snow to push this year though. I have a 3pt rear snowblower on my tractor, and I only used it once so far this whole season. We have about an inch on the ground right now, and highs forcasted in the mid to upper 30's all week. Looks like it will be the winter that never came, lol.


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## mliiiwit (Feb 14, 2012)

Spartan said:
			
		

> Hello everybody. First post so go easy on the new guy!
> 
> I have a decent supply of sawdust that I am now paying to haul away. Better still, I have two customers/friends who generate several 40 yard containers a week and THEY are paying to haul them away. Yes, I know that some farmer will kill for it but we are in the city (Toronto) and it cost to truck it ($350 to the nearest farm).
> 
> ...



There's a news-print magazine called "Farm Show".  A recent edition had an article about a pelletizing business that offers assistance to start-up pelletizers.  As I recall, they have some experience with cheap chinese-made pelletizers and developed their own design based on superior materials.  They will do testing on any product you want to pelletize to determine if it's doable and develop the formulation for you, sell you the equipment and assist you with setup of your pelletizing system.  It sounds like you have access to far more material than you could use yourself, so you'd just as well look into a for-profit system.


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## mliiiwit (Feb 14, 2012)

Search on www.farmshow.com.  The article is in 2011 - Volume #35, Issue #6, Page #17.  The company name & contact info is:

 Company: Lawson Mills Biomass Solutions Ltd.
67 Watts Ave.
City: Charlottetown
Zip: C1E2B7
Country: Canada
Website: www.makepellets.ca
Phone: 888 313 9424


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## Hoval (Feb 15, 2012)

That information is great. How does your unit work? Do you get the pellets you want? How much did you pay? Is this a complete system or piece by piece? How many # of pellets do you get made per hour? What is your cost per Ton? What is your source of raw material? How is the raw materials collected? How do you transport the raw materials? How do you transport the pellets? Where do you store the pellets? What is the distance from the raw material to the pellet mill to the storage? What type of system do you have? Please send photo's of your system. I would think that this kind of unit and help must be in the 10of thousand of $ and above the budget of a single home owner so you must be very happy with what you bought.


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## Hoval (Feb 15, 2012)

I did some work on the horizon cooling tower today. I needed to add additional hinges to make the doors stronger. I had said that I would send some photo's of it. One of the photos shows the 6" fan mounted to the top end that will blow outside air into the bottom of the cooling unit when I am making pellets to allow them to cool. The second photo is of the distribution housing going into the inside of the unit. The third photo us the raised floor so that air can blow the full length of the unit and go through the screen up through the pellets.


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## tjnamtiw (Feb 16, 2012)

did you start working on the mill yet?  Like reaming and polishing the holes?  Did you buy any binder yet?


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## Hoval (Feb 16, 2012)

No I haven't done anything with the mill as I need to convert the one end of the PTO from Chinese 8 spline to American 6 spline. When I get ready to try making the pellets I will use a mixture of 50% sandblast media, 25% straw and 25% soybeans, corn, canola or other oil based products. While the mill is running I will need to run this through the mill about 10 times or 10 minutes. This should smooth the edges, shine the surface, ream the holes, and remove any metal from the milling of the rollers and die. This is information came from Buskirk Engineering. They make an American pellet mill but for me the cost is like two to three times what I have invested. I haven't looked into a binder yet as I am not sure that I will need one. If my plan works I will have the heat I need to make a good pellet without a binder. Most of the video on the inter-net are using little pellet mills under 15 HP or the size for manufacturing. I haven't seen ones like I have with almost a 12 inch die and 52 horsepower to drive it. Only time will answer that question.  I did find an SKJ280 pellet mill in action.  This is like the one I bought but mine is a SKJ300 and is driven by my tractor not the electric motor shown here..  The 280 is a 10"die while the 300 is a 12" die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=5lipTsh8lDA


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