# Your Thoughts on this Wood Stove Setup



## St. Coemgen (Apr 17, 2019)




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## Sawset (Apr 17, 2019)

First thing that comes to mind:



Clearances to combustibles.


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## Ludlow (Apr 17, 2019)

If it feels good, do it.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 17, 2019)

Probably not very efficient. I didn't watch much of the video, and I had it muted with captions turned on. Who thought it wise to put it next to the door?


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## begreen (Apr 17, 2019)

Heat shielding inside is a joke. The stove with the water jacket and illegal chimney is going to be a creosote producer.


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## AlbergSteve (Apr 17, 2019)

Oh. My. God.


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## Jan Pijpelink (Apr 17, 2019)

Has anybody alerted the local Fire Marshall?


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## Jan Pijpelink (Apr 17, 2019)

I assume @bholler just fell into a coma.


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## Ludlow (Apr 17, 2019)

Subscribe for future catastrophic videos.


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## Dug8498 (Apr 18, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> I assume @bholler just fell into a coma.



Just laughed out loud at this one [emoji3516] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jetsam (Apr 18, 2019)

Looks good to me!


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## peakbagger (Apr 18, 2019)

Since I don't have any experience with metal chimneys I will leave comments to the folks who do. I will comment that hot water coils on wood stoves can be very hazardous and frequently short lived unless there is a foolproof method of ensure that there is always flow through the pipe and there is no chance of making steam. A leak in a tube inside the fire box just puts the fire out but filling a hot water system with steam can cause a lot of damage and hurt someone. An appropriate Temperature and Pressure rated relief valve is a start as long as its plumbed properly. In most cases there needs to be a way of dumping heat built into the system as in cold weather the demand from the stove may exceed the need for hot water. I have friend that has used an external coil arrangement for close to 20 years and he has all these backup systems so it can be done safely but many of the installs are not well thought out.


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## SpaceBus (Apr 18, 2019)

Dug8498 said:


> Just laughed out loud at this one [emoji3516]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It's one of the funniest things I've seen on this forum.


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## begreen (Apr 18, 2019)

Must have been inspired by this installation.


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## St. Coemgen (Apr 18, 2019)

Confused why this thread was moved to "classic wood stoves". The Video clearly stated this person build this wood stove herself from scratch. Not exactly a "classic" wood stove.....


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## begreen (Apr 18, 2019)

It's a non-compliant, unlisted,  pre-EPA design.


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## Sawset (Apr 19, 2019)

begreen said:


> Must have been inspired by this installation.
> 
> View attachment 243443


Two places that I saw with this kind of  half arsed setup burned. Both homeowner built, took years to get up, sided, roofed, stove installed before the snow flys, and promply smoked/burned out. Afterward it took a general contractor a short time to tear it  down,  rebuild, minus the stove and hassle. Spouse probably said knock it off get it done.


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## Ludlow (Apr 19, 2019)

I was just browsing some real estate listings and spied this. They obviously burn it as there was a pic of a large wood cache in the basement. Gotta wonder how they get away with it like it is. It is a heck of a nice place. Great workmanship. There are several clearance violations going on here.


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## begreen (Apr 19, 2019)

There is scorching on the mantel behind the stove pipe.


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## Ludlow (Apr 19, 2019)

begreen said:


> There is scorching on the mantel behind the stove pipe.




Yes there is. My thoughts are the clearance from the stove to the studs looks pretty close as well for an old stove. And the oak railing looks close too. And the hearth. Who knows if it is proper when you see all the other stuff.


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## begreen (Apr 19, 2019)

Yes, 36" clearance required in all directions and 18" clear for single-wall stove pipe. Hearth is too shallow also.


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## bholler (Apr 19, 2019)

Jan Pijpelink said:


> I assume @bholler just fell into a coma.


The sad part is we see far worse.  And people get pissed when we tell them we can't clean it unless some issues are corrected.  I will clean it with some issues but sometimes it is just to bad to be worth me taking on that liability


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## St. Coemgen (Apr 19, 2019)

begreen said:


> It's a non-compliant, unlisted,  pre-EPA design.



Ah. 

Interesting. Good point.

So, in a way, a potential disaster waiting to happen may be called "classic"..... 

LOL!


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## Sawset (Apr 19, 2019)

Scorched wood = lowered flash point. New wood can take some heat, scorched wood will flash to flames at a lot lower temp.


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## jetsam (Apr 21, 2019)

Sawset said:


> Scorched wood = lowered flash point. New wood can take some heat, scorched wood will flash to flames at a lot lower temp.



Many people know that wood ignites at 450°F.

Many people don't know that steam pipes running at 200°F used to be a common cause of structure fires.  (This may take years to happen at those temperatures.) Sufficiently pyrolized wood can apparently catch as a result of being exposed to temperatures as low as 170°.

The second link is recommended reading for anyone who has a wood stove. The first one is is interesting and occasionally funny ("oh yeah, that giant bin of coal catches fire a little every day, but we didn't think it would ever catch fire a lot!"). Check it out if you want to know what it was like to run an old timey fire department!


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## begreen (Apr 21, 2019)

Thinner pieces of wood like splinters pyrolyze faster. This often is the case where rough cut holes for piping have splintery edges. Also a risk in areas like chimney support boxes that have not been vacuumed thoroughly and don't have an attic insulation shield.


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## Sawset (Apr 21, 2019)

So even if the situation was improved with regards to stove placement and piping, yet the scorched wood wasn't addressed, there would be cause for concern. That would seem reasonable.  When clearances are stipulated for stove equipment (stove, thimble, piping etc), is there any mention of condition of surrounding structure? Is it assumed to be new uncompromised materials. Or are the clearances good to go for, in this case, scorched areas, or for rough cut throughs, or shavings etc. Seems like there should be some due diligence to some of that, but how would the average guy know these things if it isnt mentioned in the install instructions.


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## jetsam (Apr 21, 2019)

Any wood surface that occasionally exceeds 170°F is a cause for concern.  That's only a 100° rise over room temp, and 100° is nothin' for a wood stove.

Adhering to the manufacturer's clearances will keep you out of the worst kinds of trouble,  but I'd hesitate to say that it will prevent a 100° rise on every combustible in all compliant installations.

It's pretty easy to monitor. When your stove is cranking next winter, break out the IR thermometer and check all the nearby surfaces.  It's actually kind of fun and interesting to do.

And bear in mind that measuring 170° on a surface one time is a lot different from having a big black stripe on the wood behind your stovepipe!


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## Sawset (Apr 21, 2019)

I wonder what temps would be on surrounding surfaces in a worst case scenario (chimney fire). Usually here surfaces all around are warm to the touch but not hot. Somewhere I saw that 130deg would cause pain (meaning can't hold on - I tested it on some steam pipes once with a temp gauge inches away, result was accurate enough). I can hold on to the framing and walls without an issue at all, but during an over fire or chimney fire?


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## jetsam (Apr 25, 2019)

I have been reading about more of those early 1900s fires (linked above). They are certainly not all steam pipe fires!

There are a lot caused by people acting in defiance to common sense (open gas cans used for cleaning, giant asphalt dipping machine located next to giant coal boiler, etc)- and others that seem even odder at a hundred years' distance.

A common ignition hazard was 'locomotive sparks'.  There were rules about how buildings near railway tracks should be roofed and screened.

We had gasoline-fired indoor lights.

Wood sheathing on new framed buildings was seen as a severe fire hazard.

Watchmen were an important part of fire prevention.  Sprinkler systems were commonly dry, with an employee being expected to turn them on in the event of a fire.

Citizen fire brigades were a thing.  Firefighters responding to large fires from neighboring areas sometimes couldn't help because they had different hose fittings on their equipment.

There were coal fired boilers everywhere, as so many things were steam powered.

Water mains and sprinkler systems were pressurized by steam boilers, and this was not necessarily a public utility- private buildings might have had their own waterworks.

In 1910, gas laundry dryers became a new hazard. They were clothing racks with sheet metal heated by gas burners underneath. If clothes fell off the racks- issues!

Lunch is over, so I'll have to get through the last 150 pages later. Interesting stuff though!


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## Cornflakes (Apr 29, 2019)

Bruce doesn’t look thrilled at all.


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## ct01r (May 31, 2019)

In the last 70's/early 80's, the fire company I was with responded to 2-4 calls per winter due to "smell of smoke" in the house.  People were burning their fireplaces for days at a time, trying to save oil.  Although the houses were built to code, the fireplaces weren't built for heat, just decorative use.  We'd find charred studs when we opened the walls 2, 3 or 4 studs away from the fireplaces.  The walls never cooled off during the fireplace usage, and heat just kept building up.  Curt


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## ct01r (May 31, 2019)

Sorry, that was supposed to say "In the late 70's"


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## begreen (May 31, 2019)

ct01r said:


> In the last 70's/early 80's, the fire company I was with responded to 2-4 calls per winter due to "smell of smoke" in the house.  People were burning their fireplaces for days at a time, trying to save oil.  Although the houses were built to code, the fireplaces weren't built for heat, just decorative use.  We'd find charred studs when we opened the walls 2, 3 or 4 studs away from the fireplaces.  The walls never cooled off during the fireplace usage, and heat just kept building up.  Curt


This was the case with the old fireplace in our house. It was unlined, probably home-built in 1924. Wood was touching the masonry in multiple places. I put a liner in as soon as we moved in, but never could rest easy with the old fireplace. You could feel the heat on the backside of the wall which is where the staircase went upstairs. When I took it all out in 2006 the evidence was even more damning. There were a couple old takeoffs for wood stoves that had been sealed up. One with plaster, but the other just studded over. One can't assume a fireplace was made safely for regular use unless you were there when it was built.


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## blades (May 31, 2019)

ct01r said:


> In the last 70's/early 80's, the fire company I was with responded to 2-4 calls per winter due to "smell of smoke" in the house.  People were burning their fireplaces for days at a time, trying to save oil.  Although the houses were built to code, the fireplaces weren't built for heat, just decorative use.  We'd find charred studs when we opened the walls 2, 3 or 4 studs away from the fireplaces.  The walls never cooled off during the fireplace usage, and heat just kept building up.  Curt


 Friend of mine went though that exact description about 6 years ago- fire department called- studs ignited when wall was opened up- about a 1950's build- Fancy fire place with fan driven heat vents in the brick work- all told about 40K worth of damage/ repair costs.


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## bholler (May 31, 2019)

blades said:


> Friend of mine went though that exact description about 6 years ago- fire department called- studs ignited when wall was opened up- about a 1950's build- Fancy fire place with fan driven heat vents in the brick work- all told about 40K worth of damage/ repair costs.


We fixed a log home with stone fireplace that had the same problem.  It was built in 2012.  Most new chimneys we see still are not built to code


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## begreen (Jun 1, 2019)

bholler said:


> We fixed a log home with stone fireplace that had the same problem.  It was built in 2012.  Most new chimneys we see still are not built to code


Sounds like the log inn that my wife grew up in. It was built out of chestnut during the depression. The upstairs fireplace hearth extension rested on wood beams. We're lucky the place didn't burn down after using the fireplace 24/7 one cold winter.


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## bholler (Jun 1, 2019)

begreen said:


> Sounds like the log inn that my wife grew up in. It was built out of chestnut during the depression. The upstairs fireplace hearth extension rested on wood beams. We're lucky the place didn't burn down after using the fireplace 24/7 one cold winter.


This one had logs running behind the stone face between it and the metal firebox.  The bad part is we had been cleaning it since new but we had no way to know what was buried.  I felt pretty bad about it but there was nothing I could have done.


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