# Fireplace Opening Too Tall For Insert Surround - Options?



## Phillies123 (Dec 2, 2011)

I have a very old fireplace with an opening that is 31" tall and 33" wide.  Depth is 16".  I am in the market for a small wood burning insert and have my eye on the PE Vista.  Trouble is that neither the standard nor the oversize surround is tall enough to cover the opening.  The fireplace has a beautiful wood mantle and marble hearth that I'd like to minimize alterations to, although I'm fine with trying to match the marble.

What do folks do in this situation?  Hire a mason to make the opening smaller?  See if PE could build a custom surround?

I should say that this fireplace is on the second floor (of a three story house with an attic), so distance from the fireplace to top of the chimney is around 30 feet.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Dix (Dec 2, 2011)

Need 'um pics.

Please 

Welcome to the forums, if I missed you entry !


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## Phillies123 (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks very much for the welcome and for the help.  This is such a great resource.

Here is a picture.


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## pen (Dec 2, 2011)

why not forgo the surround and put a freestanding stove w/ a blower in there?

With any unit you go w/ you'll have to watch your clearance to combustibles, I think especially on the sides to that wood.  Most manuals are found readily online so if you find a stove you like the appearance of, you can double check what you have vs what is required pretty easily (or ask and we can help)

pen


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## Phillies123 (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm considering it.  I saw the post called "Which Insert for a Small Fireplace" that discusses this.  I had my heart set on an insert, so I just want to see what, if any, options I have.  As you guys can probably tell, all of this is pretty new to me.

Thanks very much for the response.


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## Danno77 (Dec 2, 2011)

pen said:
			
		

> why not forgo the surround and put a freestanding stove w/ a blower in there?
> 
> With any unit you go w/ you'll have to watch your clearance to combustibles, I think especially on the sides to that wood.  Most manuals are found readily online so if you find a stove you like the appearance of, you can double check what you have vs what is required pretty easily (or ask and we can help)
> 
> pen


+1 to the stove idea. 

Anyway, I had to ditch my mantle ideas because of clearances to the legs of the mantle. Shielding would have taken care of the top.

Anyhooo, I would think that elevating the insert would be the way to go. Bricks or whatever it takes, then cover it all up with a horizontal piece of flat steel painted the same as the surround...


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## Dix (Dec 2, 2011)

Def, go with the stove.

If I had a do over on the insert, I would do a stove.


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 2, 2011)

+1 as well on the stove.  You have a great setup for it if the room is large enough to handle it sticking out into the room some.  May have to extend your hearth some though.   I have an insert and really wish my setup could handle a freestanding stove.  I'm not at all happy with all of the heat I lose up the chimney with the insert (which I'm trying to rectify now) and the blower noise is a real irritant to us as well.  

Other than that, I like the idea of raising the hearth inside the fireplace and putting a custom made surround on the bottom of it.  Good idea.

Edit:  Oh yea, welcome to the hearth.  You've come to the right place.  If you have an addictive personality and start burning wood, watch out.  We'll feed it.  We are NOT a 12 step program to help people with their addiction to flame.   ;-P


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## madison (Dec 2, 2011)

The wood pillars may present a clearance issue.  as well as the hardwood floors.


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## WoodpileOCD (Dec 2, 2011)

Phillies123 said:
			
		

> I have a very old fireplace with an *opening that is 31" tall and 33" wide*.  Depth is 16".  I am in the market for a small wood burning insert and have my eye on the PE Vista.  Trouble is that neither the standard nor the oversize surround is tall enough to cover the opening.  The fireplace has a beautiful wood mantle and marble hearth that I'd like to minimize alterations to, although I'm fine with trying to match the marble.
> 
> What do folks do in this situation?  Hire a mason to make the opening smaller?  See if PE could build a custom surround?
> 
> ...



Must be an optical illusion because I swear it looks taller than it does wide.  What is the distance to the wood sides.   Nice looking fireplace by the way.


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## Danno77 (Dec 2, 2011)

WoodpileOCD said:
			
		

> Must be an optical illusion because I swear it looks taller than it does wide.  What is the distance to the wood sides.   Nice looking fireplace by the way.


I was thinking the same thing...


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## rwhite (Dec 2, 2011)

Was there something around the firebox previously (doors or screens). I can see an unpainted edge around the box.


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## James02 (Dec 2, 2011)

Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:
			
		

> Def, go with the stove.
> 
> If I had a do over on the insert, I would do a stove.





+1....I have the same insert you were looking at, and I agree with Dixie.....I would get a stove.  But I won't admit it in front of the Vista.  I get good heat (minus noob issues) but it's got a small box and short burn times.


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## fredarm (Dec 2, 2011)

Nice thing about the Vista is it's a flush face insert which may help with side clearances to the pillars.  Maybe a Vista or Alderlea T4 stove set back in the fireplace would work for clearances.


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## FireAnt (Dec 2, 2011)

I must be +15 now. Go with the stove.


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## Grisu (Dec 2, 2011)

Are you going for the PE Vista because of the narrow fireplace? With its small firebox you won't get good overnight burns and the heat may be less than what you will need for the rest of your house. Putting a stove in will allow you to go bigger such as the PE Super. I have a PE Super insert and like it a lot. The aesthetics are just more appealing to me and the blower does not bother me. However, in your situation a stove may really be the better choice.


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## DAKSY (Dec 2, 2011)

Phillies123 said:
			
		

> I have a very old fireplace with an opening that is 31" tall and 33" wide.  Depth is 16".  I am in the market for a small wood burning insert and have my eye on the PE Vista.  Trouble is that neither the standard nor the oversize surround is tall enough to cover the opening.  The fireplace has a beautiful wood mantle and marble hearth that I'd like to minimize alterations to, although I'm fine with trying to match the marble.
> 
> What do folks do in this situation?  Hire a mason to make the opening smaller?  See if PE could build a custom surround?
> 
> ...



If you're dead set on an insert, the best fix would be to build a riser out of steel plate.
We used to do it a lot. A local steel distributor keeps scrap ends & pieces after shearing 1/4"
plates to size & we would design a riser with a 6" depth X whatever height was needed to
make sure the surround would cover the opening. Running straight back into the fireplace 
opening, we'd weld up an "H" shape out of scraps tack-welded into a square to support the 
insert body, & weld that to the surround riser. Hope that gives you a semi-visual. I can't scan 
in any drawings from here, but I could do it later from home, if you're interested...


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## logger (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm a stove guy and that looks like a prime candidate for one.. do it.


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## Phillies123 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't thank all of you enough for the advice.  You all have convinced me to go with a stove.  My next question, of course, is which one?

Here is some more information on my situation.  Because we love the mantle, we don't want to change it at all.  Also, because the room isn't huge (and we have a 13 month old who is just now starting to walk), we don't want the stove sticking out too far.  Ideally, we'd like it to fit completely inside.  I know that will cut down the heat dramatically, but we're not looking to heat the entire house with the stove (we were also considering a blower).  The fireplace doesn't have a damper and our decision is to fix it up or to put in a stove.  We also want wood burning.

I remeasured the dimensions of the fireplace and have posted another picture below.  My main concern is clearance from combustables (as some of you have already pointed out).  The depth is 16.5."  That puts me flush with the white marble.  The actual firebox dimensions are 29" tall and 26" wide.  The firebox is all brick.

As you can see, there is some wood trim on the sides of the surround and below the mantle.  The distance between the wood trim by the pillars is 41.5".  The distance from the hearth to the wood trim below the mantle is 39".  The distance between the hearth and the mantle is 48".  The mantle hangs out 9" from the firebox opening.

I went to the retailer today and he showed me some stoves, but they would not meet the clearance requirements because of the wood trim by the pillars.  He also showed me the Vista Classic which he said would fit completely into the space (Vista Classic depth is 15 7/8" and my depth is 16.5").  Because it would fit directly into the space, he said we would not have to worry about the wood trim (neither the sides nor the wood trim below the mantle).

My questions to the group are 1.  If the stove fits directly into the firebox, do I still have to worry about the combustion requirements?  and 2.  What do folks think of the Vista Classic  and 3.  Any other suggestions for a wood stove that would fit?

Thanks again to all of you for the help.  I really appreciate it.


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## begreen (Dec 3, 2011)

That is a good little stove. It will need a blower. Ask if that adds to the depth of the stove. I think it might.


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## tcassavaugh (Dec 3, 2011)

thats a beautiful old fireplace and mantle. the first photo didn't do it justice. i can clearly see why you would want an insert. while i had agreed with going with a stove, now I can surely see why you want to go with an insert. i wonder if you could find a sheet metal worker that could fabricate an extension for the top of the insert and paint it stove black like the rest of the insert. 
just a thought 

cass


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## fredarm (Dec 3, 2011)

The Vista is a great little stove and puts out a lot of heat for its size.  If you're not looking to heat the whole house with it, it should be great for your situation.


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## Phillies123 (Dec 3, 2011)

BeGreen - you make a great point about a blower adding depth.  It looks like the blower for this unit is 4.5".  If that's installed, then it seems like I have the combustible material problem with the side trim again since the stove would not be fully contained in the firebox.

If a don't install the blower on the PE Vista Classic unit, am I going to get any heat?  Is there anying else I could do with this unit?

Thanks again, everyone.


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## rwhite (Dec 4, 2011)

This may be for naught if you go with a wood stove but if you decide on an insert here is what I did.

This is the fireplace that I started, with the dimensions were very similar to yours:








I removed all the glass and screens from the existing surround (fireplace doors) and cut a notch out of the bottom to slide around the insert. There was also about a 2" spacer that was under the doors that was removed as well:







There was a lip where the glass in the doors sat so I had the metal shop cut me some 1/16" plate to fill in the space and screwed it to the outer lip. I left air gap of about 1.5" all around the stove to leave the air jacket on the insert exposed. You can see the screws around the outer edge where I attached the plate. The trim just attches to the brick using the same hardware that was used when it was a fireplace, it's not attached to the stove anywhere.


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## ddddddden (Dec 4, 2011)

+1 for a stove.  More (3-4x ?) surface area for heat transfer. Less heat loss to exterior chimney masonry. Easy access to flue for maintenance and temp readings. No noise, unless you want to add a blower.  Choose a stove with a minimal hearth requirement underneath, and you could just throw down another piece of marble.


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## woodmiser (Dec 4, 2011)

Phillies123 said:
			
		

> BeGreen - you make a great point about a blower adding depth.  It looks like the blower for this unit is 4.5".  If that's installed, then it seems like I have the combustible material problem with the side trim again since the stove would not be fully contained in the firebox.
> 
> If a don't install the blower on the PE Vista Classic unit, am I going to get any heat?  Is there anying else I could do with this unit?
> 
> Thanks again, everyone.



 Some stoves use the measurement from the actual main body of the stove, not from an accessory. Check the manual if it's available on line.


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## colin.p (Dec 4, 2011)

My F3CB would fit right in there. 23 inches wide by 15 inches deep by 28 inches high with the standard legs, 26 inches with the short legs. would look cool as well.


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