# My electric bill was still crazy this month, and I’ve been burning the whole time! Any ideas?



## lugoismad (Dec 15, 2008)

My regular electric bill last summer with the AC running was $130 for my 1400sqft older house.

I installed my wood burning furnace this summer, and started burning full itme all through november.
I just got my electric bill, and its still $110. What the heck?

The only thing I have running is one PC, one laptop (my machine and my girlfriends laptop),
I have a 40 gallon hot water heater (that I just put a new bottom element and thermostat in).
I really can't imagine where all of my electric is going to. Theres only two of us, and we don't use electric excessively.

Any ideas as to what could have caused this? The blower on my wood furnace is only 2 amp.
2amp x 120volts = 240 watts. Thats roughly the same as a few lightbulbs on. I wouldn't think it would have used that much electric as compared to my AC / Heatpump.


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## Diabel (Dec 15, 2008)

Is the bill an estimate or actual meter reading?


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## lugoismad (Dec 15, 2008)

Diabel said:
			
		

> Is the bill an estimate or actual meter reading?



Thats the first thing I thought too! I called, and it was an actual reading.

At my last house of the exact same size, with a gas furnace, our electric was around $50 or so.


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## lugoismad (Dec 15, 2008)

I forgot to mention, my electric water heater is in an unfinished and unheated basement. Its whats called a "half basement" I think. Its an area about the size of a bathroom, with just enough room for the hot water heater, electric panel, and you can crawl up onto the slab to to get to the crawl space area. I just bought an R-10 blanket for it for $30, it should be here later this week. However I couldn't imagine that making THAT big of a difference.


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## claybe (Dec 15, 2008)

Are you on an average bill that averages out over the entire year?  We have that option with our electric company to even out the bill throughout the year so there are no months where the bill spikes.  You might have signed up for it and didn't know it???


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## Corey (Dec 15, 2008)

I think we already covered the average bill.  But, the dollar figure could mean anything...what is your actual KWh usage?  No electric clothes dryer, cooking stove, oven, etc?  These are the usual big energy hogs. Refrigerator working overtime due to warmth from the stove??   The electric water heater will be working a lot harder in the winter simply because the water coming in is cooler than during the summer.  My gas bill usually doubles...from ~$25 to $50, just due to heating up the extra cool water and the only thing we have on gas is hot water...the furnace never fires because of the wood stove.


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## North of 60 (Dec 15, 2008)

lugoismad said:
			
		

> My regular electric bill last summer with the AC running was $130 for my 1400sqft older house.
> 
> I installed my wood burning furnace this summer, and started burning full itme all through november.
> I just got my electric bill, and its still $110. What the heck?
> ...



Are you sure your main blower is only 2amps. What hp is it? most residential furnaces Pull at-least 4-5amps on a 1/4 to 1/2 hp. Do you have a combustion bower also. Maybe thats where you got your reading from. $110 still sounds high though. Sounds like allot of hot baths and clothes washing for that. Have you had to plug in any of your vehicles lately overnight? just thinking...
N of 60


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## Hogwildz (Dec 15, 2008)

I wouldn't mind $110.00, Mine averages $150.00 a month.
Of course the OL & her daughter have to have the electric blanket running from September to May ;(


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## karl (Dec 15, 2008)

Are you heating soley with wood?  Heat pumps don't pull that much power, but if something is wrong with it and the resistant heat is kicking in that will run up your bill alot.


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2008)

Insulate the heck out of the HW heater and the hot water pipes. It takes more electricity in the winter to heat up water because it's coming out of the ground (and into the heater) at colder temps. Sometimes as much as 30 degrees colder. You might also set the thermostat on the HW heater down to 120 degrees.  Also, you are most likely using more lighting in the winter due to less daylight hours.


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## Summertime (Dec 15, 2008)

I just switched to a Rinnai tankless water heater (lp gas ) and save between $50 and $60 per month over my old electric heater, yes there is a increase in lp usage but not nearly that much..


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## mtarbert (Dec 15, 2008)

Try turning Everything that is plugged in in the house Off and then go look at the meter. If it is still spinning you have something that is on that you don't know about. When not in a room ...turn off the lights...it does Not matter what kind of lighting and Unplug the TVs when you leave the instant on feature uses alot of juice.


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## jebatty (Dec 15, 2008)

How many kwh/month are you using for the last couple of months?

We heat 1500 sq ft with 100% wood heat, two desktop computers, entertainment center, electric hot water heaters which are separately metered at an off-peak rate. Just the two of us, wife and me. If your electric hot water heater is very well insualted (6" all sides, top and bottom), with heat traps, and if hw pipes are insulated, it will use about 1/2 the electricity from not being insulated.

For us, total kwh, for general electric plus hw were Oct-602, Sep-552. Don't have Nov bill yet, but it should be about the same.


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## woodconvert (Dec 15, 2008)

lugoismad said:
			
		

> My regular electric bill last summer with the AC running was $130 for my 1400sqft older house.
> 
> I installed my wood burning furnace this summer, and started burning full itme all through november.
> I just got my electric bill, and its still $110. What the heck?



Same problem here. What i've found with my Elec. Co. is they build a history on you, what you average, THEN they hit you with that average on the bill. I've called and screamed so now what they do is say the readings are actual and still charge the same amount...the problem is, by looking at the snow behind the house it's easy to see if there was somebody back there doing a reading...they don't read it. So when I call to scream and tell them "NOoooooooo, there was no reading" then my next month's bill comes in the mail with ZERO balance, nothing owed.

It really sucks because you are at the mercy of the elec. co.. Unless you have a clamp on meter to do an actual reading for verification yer screwed....and they know it.


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## Cluttermagnet (Dec 15, 2008)

Do you live in a single family/ detached structure? Or a townhouse?


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## jdurando (Dec 15, 2008)

I agree you have to start turning things off to see what the big draw is. i have seen gadgets that read your meter for you in real time never tried one but it might work to help you control the bill 

http://www.powermeterstore.com/p3982/power_cost_monitor.php


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## jrob (Dec 15, 2008)

most of the readings are done wirelessly from the street now, and sometimes they read the wrong house. it happens sometimes


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## Risser09 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sounds very frustrating. Does your girl take 30 minute showers? Has the price per KWh gone up recently? You're just gonna have to check everything to make sure...

On the other hand, my stove install in my basement is proving to be quite successful. I've noticed a $15 drop on this November's electric bill ($78) compared to last year's November. My unfinished ceiling allows all the copper pipe to rest around 80º-85º, so I can run "cold" water upstairs and it will be warm for 20 seconds. This also has an affect on the water going in & out of my electric hot water heater. I'm also very lucky that my electric company charges every month per KWh.


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## kenny chaos (Dec 15, 2008)

A gal I know was complaining about her electric bill and we tried to cover all the bases and found no culprits.  Then while making small talk, she spoke of how dry her house was and causing her nose bleeds so she kept a pot of water simmering on the stove 24 hours a day. :ahhh:


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## savageactor7 (Dec 15, 2008)

Somethings not right lugoismad...I agree that you have to compare kilowatt use, so dig so last years bill.


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## Valhalla (Dec 15, 2008)

lugoismad said:
			
		

> My regular electric bill last summer with the AC running was $130 for my 1400sqft older house.
> 
> I installed my wood burning furnace this summer, and started burning full itme all through november.
> I just got my electric bill, and its still $110. What the heck?
> ...



Lugo,

My electric billing was $69 for the same period. We burn wood about 18/7 with a W-M oil burner and integral Amtrol Boilermate DHW system. Also an electric kitchen range and dryer since there is no gas in our area.

If it was my bill, I would calculate more closely the actual KWH consumption of all devices and run a simple log. Keep looking for hidden consumers. Good luck.


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## raybonz (Dec 15, 2008)

lugoismad said:
			
		

> My regular electric bill last summer with the AC running was $130 for my 1400sqft older house.
> 
> I installed my wood burning furnace this summer, and started burning full itme all through november.
> I just got my electric bill, and its still $110. What the heck?
> ...



I live in MA. that is one of the most expensive states for electricity and we pay around $175.00 a month this time of year.. A big factor here is the electric dryer.. It is more of a factor during the winter because the cellar is much colder with the woodstove so the dryer must heat cold air plus the tankless also cycles more due to the cold cellar.. 

Ray


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## BrotherBart (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya didn't happen to have everybody over and cook a big meal for Thanksgiving did ya? Those electric ranges can spin the dial off of a electric meter.


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## gpcollen1 (Dec 15, 2008)

Folks mentioned it but there is a real chance your electric rates went up.  Many utilities have gotten approval on increases.


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## Chettt (Dec 15, 2008)

I read somewhere that those new large screen televisions draw more electricity than most any other device in your house including a hot water heater. Did you buy one of those recently?


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## shinyhaid (Dec 15, 2008)

I got mine yesterday and it was $50 more than usual! And I have been using the heat pump very little. The dehumidifier in our basement is the likely culprit. I think those things are the same as running an air conditioner. The only other thing that is different is the outdoor Christmas tree but those don't draw much power do they?


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## billb3 (Dec 15, 2008)

My electric bill is under $30.00.
I'm in Ma.
All electric except heat and hot water is oil.

Everything else is electric.
No AC.
No dehumidifier.
9xx sq ft.
Well pump.


I've had a old refrigerator start running too much which was costing me $50.00 a month bit it was old.

When I replaced the fridge and lights with CFL and went to just one TV   and dryig clothes on the clothes line they replaced my meter.  


To get the bill any lower than that would require rechargable lights charged back up at work.
Or candles.


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## Bubbavh (Dec 15, 2008)

Check that your reading is correct.  Sometimes the reader may misread your meter.  I had this happen... I got a $400 bill when my usual is about $120.  You should have a reading number on the bill check it with the reading on you meter.


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## Henz (Dec 15, 2008)

sOMETIMES USING LESS ELECTRIC WILL COST YOU MORE


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## begreen (Dec 15, 2008)

Moved to green room, not hearth related.


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## jdemaris (Dec 16, 2008)

lugoismad said:
			
		

> Any ideas as to what could have caused this? The blower on my wood furnace is only 2 amp.
> 2amp x 120volts = 240 watts. Thats roughly the same as a few lightbulbs on. I wouldn't think it would have used that much electric as compared to my AC / Heatpump.



Is this a full-sized wood furnace with duct work? I ask, because if so, a 2 amp blower doesn't sound possible.

My wood furnace has a three speed blower - low = 1/5 horse and 3.8 amps, medium = 1/4 horse and 4.6 amps, and high = 1/3 horse and 5.9 amps.   That's amps at 120 VAC.  And, those are running amps, not starting amps whic is a much higher figure.
 If you're drawing 2 amps, seems you must have a tiny little motor - maybe 1/10 th of a horsepower?  That wouldn't push air through duct work.

My furnace uses a lot power.  Problem with a wood furnace is - once the fire is hot and you keep feeding it,  it runs constant -not off and on like an oil or gas furnace.


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## leaf4952 (Dec 17, 2008)

You must have PP&L;as your Electric Company. Read my reply post in the Wood Shed - topic "Speading up drying time, does a fan help?". I'm also struggling with bringing my electric bill down.


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## Hansson (Dec 17, 2008)

how much do you pay for one Kwh?


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## Drumaz (Dec 17, 2008)

Mine went up considerably too...


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## jebatty (Dec 17, 2008)

$0.103 general service
$0.04   off peak (electric hot water, after 11:00 pm and before 7:00 am)
$0.045 dual fuel (electric heat, interruptible; maximum 400 hrs/yr)


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## Hansson (Dec 17, 2008)

OK
I pay $0.19/kWh here. 
The price dont change over the day.Its always $0.19/kWh.


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## Valhalla (Dec 17, 2008)

Hansson said:
			
		

> OK
> I pay $0.19/kWh here.
> The price dont change over the day.Its always $0.19/kWh.



Hansson,

Thank you. Is that in US or Euro dollar? 

Cheers


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## Hansson (Dec 17, 2008)

Valhalla said:
			
		

> Hansson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



US


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## BJ64 (Dec 17, 2008)

I have 3 meters scattered over the farm.  One just runs a well, one runs a barn and small shop, and the third is my house.  The utility company is Public Service Company of Oklahoma which is a unit of AEP.

Well #2 average usage 14 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.571
Barn and Shop average usage 109 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.211
House, Well #1, and Main Shop average usage 1944 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.103


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## jdemaris (Dec 17, 2008)

BJ64 said:
			
		

> I have 3 meters scattered over the farm.  One just runs a well, one runs a barn and small shop, and the third is my house.  The utility company is Public Service Company of Oklahoma which is a unit of AEP.
> 
> Well #2 average usage 14 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.571
> Barn and Shop average usage 109 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.211
> House, Well #1, and Main Shop average usage 1944 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.103



Do those figures show what you actually pay, or just what your bill shows for KWH charges? Around here in NY, the KHh charge is 7 cents, all the time for residential - but that means nothing. More than half the monthly is from  all the add-ons and is actually 18 cents per KWh.  Also here, farm-rate electricity is higher than residential.


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## johnsopi (Dec 17, 2008)

My wood furnace fan runs for hours at a time once the fire burning it heating. My bill is @ 250 a month.


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## Redox (Dec 20, 2008)

jdemaris said:
			
		

> lugoismad said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sounds like you have a shaded pole fan motor.  It might be worth changing it out to a high efficiency permanent split capacitor motor.  I typically see 1/3 HP motors that only pull 4 amps or so.  That could be $10-15 a month and the motor should be less than $100 if you can replace it yourself.

Chris


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## Redox (Dec 20, 2008)

BJ64 said:
			
		

> I have 3 meters scattered over the farm.  One just runs a well, one runs a barn and small shop, and the third is my house.  The utility company is Public Service Company of Oklahoma which is a unit of AEP.
> 
> Well #2 average usage 14 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.571
> Barn and Shop average usage 109 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.211
> House, Well #1, and Main Shop average usage 1944 KWH per month.   Cost per KW = 0.103



You might want to check with your utility.  I believe that all the meters at an address can be added together to one "aggregate" price.  It's worth a try.

Chris


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## Redox (Dec 20, 2008)

johnd said:
			
		

> I agree you have to start turning things off to see what the big draw is. i have seen gadgets that read your meter for you in real time never tried one but it might work to help you control the bill
> 
> http://www.powermeterstore.com/p3982/power_cost_monitor.php



I finally bought a "Kill a Watt" off E-bay for about $36.  It's amazing what it shows up.  Things that I thought would be high weren't and little things add up.  Everyone here gives it good reviews.

Chris


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## rphurley (Dec 20, 2008)

I have my large screen HD tvs plugged into a power strip and I turn that power strip off when I leave for work in the morning.  I hear that a large screen tv can use as much electricity as a refrigerator when it is off.  I also like the engery saving lightbulbs wherever they are feasable. The garage, outside lighting, etc.


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## jdemaris (Dec 20, 2008)

Redox said:
			
		

> That sounds like you have a shaded pole fan motor.  It might be worth changing it out to a high efficiency permanent split capacitor motor.  I typically see 1/3 HP motors that only pull 4 amps or so.  That could be $10-15 a month and the motor should be less than $100 if you can replace it yourself.
> 
> Chris



Nope. My motor draws about as low as I can get.  My motor is capacitor start.  I looked around years ago and there isn't anything out there that offers any substantial gain in efficiency.  Mine is always on the low setting - i.e.  - it always runs at 1/5 th horsepwer and draws 3.8 amps.   If  was running a shaded-pole motor at the same 1/5 horsepower, it would be drawing 6.7 amps, which would be a silly thing to do.

My motor is this: 
Capacitor: 5M370V HP: 1/3 - 1/4 - 1/5 RPM: 1075 Volts: 115
Enclosure: Open Ventilated Air Over Type: Permanent Split Capacitor Bearings: Sleeve
Mounting: Bolt Circle - 5.2" Rotation: REVERSIBLE 50Hz/60Hz: No/Yes Speeds: Three
'A' Dimension: 4.25 Base: Stud, Band, Base or Lug (motor specific) Amps: 5.9 - 4.6 - 3.8
Shaft: 1/2 X 6 Item: AC Mtr 1/3 - 1/4 - 1/5 HP 1075 RPM 115 V Permanent Split
Capacitor OP-AO Catalog Number: D727 

Shaded pole motor as thus:
Part ID: D158 Product Weight: 12 lbs. HP: 1/5 - 1/6 - 1/7 RPM: 1050 Volts: 115
Enclosure: Open Ventilated Air Over Type: Shaded Pole Bearings: Sleeve Mounting: Bolt
Circle - 4.62" Rotation: CW 50Hz/60Hz: No/Yes Speeds: Three 'A' Dimension: 3.875
Base: Stud, Band, Base or Lug (motor specific) Amps: 6.7 - 5.3 - 4.7 Shaft: 1/2 X 3-7/8
Item: AC Mtr 1/5 - 1/6 - 1/7 HP 1050 RPM 115 V Shaded Pole OP-AO Catalog Number:
D158


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## BucksCoBernie (Dec 20, 2008)

I pay .16 cents per kwh for peak usage
.08/kwh for off-peak. 

I have 2 meters on the side of my house, one peak the other off peak, but it looks like the only thing hooked up to the off peak meter is my water heater. i wonder if i can hook up my well pump to the off peak meter as well lol. 

My electric bill is about $110/mo (just me and my wife). 

we have CFLs and our tvs and cable boxes are hooked up to a strip that gets turned off at night....doing these things dropped our bill about $20/mo.

I picked up one of those Kill-A-Watt meters last month for $20 off ebay. awesome tool.


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## Techstuf (Dec 20, 2008)

If one runs the numbers, the utility companies nationwide are profiteering like Somali Sea Pirates on Steroids.....


The writing is on the wall.


TS


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## wrench340 (Jan 28, 2009)

not sure what we're being charged per actual kwh ,but the total charge with distribution charges is 6.96 per kwh. That's why we call them NATIONAL GREED


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## Redox (Jan 28, 2009)

I thinks we have some decimal points on the loose in this thread.  Bernie is paying 16 cents or $.16/kwh.  I am paying about 15 cents/kwh delivered and I think the national average is around 11-12 cents delivered.  Wish I had National Grid as an option.  Those are 1990's prices for some of us.  Deregulation and all that, ya know....

Chris


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## jdemaris (Jan 28, 2009)

Redox said:
			
		

> Wish I had National Grid as an option.  Those are 1990's prices for some of us.  Deregulation and all that, ya know....
> 
> Chris



I have National Grid - formerly Niagara Mohawk and presently owned by a company in Spain.  Since they became National Grid they have been awful and service has taken a big nose-dive.
Twenty miles from me, people have NYSEG which is now owned by a British company.

Currenty, their rate is 18 cents per KWH when all fees and delivery charges are factored in - here in central New York in Otsego County and also in the southern Adirondacks in Hamilton County.

I'm on solar-electric, so the rates are not a real big deal except for their old electric poles that are unmaintained and fallling apart running all over my properties.  They've got two highline right-of-ways running through my land and even over my house and barns (4800 volts).  During the last power outage I had one of their line "planners" up here.  He looked at some of the old lines and poles and just shook his  head.   He told me that this new company finds it cheaper to "fix when finally broken" rather then spend big dollars on preventative maintenance.


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## drizler (Feb 11, 2009)

Here is another reason for that bigass electric bill.   How about your well pump if you have one.    If something jams the foot valve or it goes south for some reason the pump can run more or less continuously.    I had that happen once myself.   About the only thing you will notice is that the water pressure is "funny" but its not all that pronounced really.    If your pressure doesn't kick off and stay there and the pressure doesn't build as rapidly as it should or bobs around that could be your problem.    It's quiet and subtle until you get your next electric bill..........................................     A leak in the line or running outside faucet can have much the same effect too.   A good sign of that is a lot of condensation on the expansion tank showing it has been running a lot.


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## jdemaris (Feb 11, 2009)

Driz said:
			
		

> Here is another reason for that bigass electric bill.   How about your well pump if you have one.    If something jams the foot valve or it goes south for some reason the pump can run more or less continuously.    I had that happen once myself.   About the only thing you will notice is that the water pressure



I can't figure how that's going to happen.  Foot valve or check- valve is there to prevent drainback, that's all. I've had to repair or replace many a foot valve or check valve. Unitized submerisble pumps have it built into them.  When it goes bad, the entire run of pipe drains empty, so every time the pump turns on, it has to re-fill the pipe  before sending water to the house.  Yes, that can waste some electricity, but it does not make the pump run continuously.

Only situations I've ever seen that can make the pump run continously is -  pump runs dry or line breaks, the pressure-switch contacts get stuck closed, or the water-line freezes between the pump and switch so the switch does not get the proper pressure-signal.


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## KarlP (Feb 11, 2009)

jdemaris said:
			
		

> Unitized submerisble pumps have it built into them.  When it goes bad, the entire run of pipe drains empty, so every time the pump turns on, it has to re-fill the pipe  before sending water to the house.  Yes, that can waste some electricity, but it does not make the pump run continuously.



I think he's talking about an above ground pump where the check valve is on the suction side, not the pressure side.


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## jdemaris (Feb 11, 2009)

KarlP said:
			
		

> I think he's talking about an above ground pump where the check valve is on the suction side, not the pressure side.



Doesn't really make a difference.   Most all the pumps use some sort of foot valve, check valve, etc. on the suction side.  Submersible pumps have it built in at the bottom.  Jet and piston pumps use one in the line somewhere, and if it's at the bottom of the line in the well or spring the check-valve is called a foot-valve.  With any of them, if the valve stops working - i.e. leaks, gets stuck open, etc. the system will still pump water and shut-off - but it will spend more time doing it at first start.  A submerisble pump, if it sits 200 feet down, will have 200 feet of pipe to fill will water every time it starts.  If a deep-well jet, same problem.  If a shallow jet pump or piston pump in the house, it can lose it's prime and have to prime itself at every start up.   If it can't prime itself, you're not going to get water and you're going to notice.  I susect since it's in the house, you're going to hear it also.

So, I still don't get it.  How does a leaking foot-valve result in water working OK, but pump running all  the time?  I can't come up with any situation where that can happen.


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