# Spoke too soon-Econoburn fan issue



## b33p3r (Dec 10, 2010)

Ran into a fan issue. Check on boiler and I find the fan humming and just creeping along. Turn power switch off and back on and the fan goes into high speed and settles down into low speed like it should. I was finally in shed when aquastat turned back on and the fan just hummed and crept. Checked voltage at aquastat and a solid 110 going to fan. Talked to Dale at econoburn and he had me change a setting on the nimbus board. I got talking to him about the controls and he said the Aquastat is supposed to be used as a high temp safety shutoff not as a regular shutoff. I asked him if the fan is designed to be running all the time and he said yes except for the occasional high temp aquastat shut off. Basically the dip switch setting adjustment he told me to make, runs the fan slower on slow speed so it is more geared to maintaining temps rather than raising them.   I still have a feeling I'm going to see the humming fan barely moving but I'll follow directions for now.


----------



## wantstoburnwood (Dec 11, 2010)

Dale is full of knowledge . He won't lead you astray on this issue   Did he go through all the settings with you?  My settings got all messed up when I was installing my boiler


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 11, 2010)

He had me change my temp settings before the dip switch change. He wanted set temp at 165 and my aquastat at 200. But the boiler went up to 200 and the aquastat shut it down again. Problem is the digital was at 219 and went into high temp alarm 30 seconds later. The digital display calibration is another issue with me. Its still going 20* higher than the aquastat,side analog temp gauge and the oil analog temp gauge, all of which report the same temp.
    I like the slower fan speed he had me set up. It matches my heat load better. Now my temp creeps up slower when in slow speed. Plus I'm sure it's not burning as much wood at the slower speed. I'm pretty sure something is up with the motor speed modulator but I'm not the expert. So I'll keep doing what he tells me until things are good. He was also surprised to hear my digital was 20* higher than the other gauges but he kind of blew it off I think mostly because it was Friday afternoon 30 minutes before quitting time and he was more concerned about my fan issue. I'll follow up on everything Monday,Tuesday,Wed........whatever it takes.
  All that said, this boiler is great! It will be that much better when all bugs are worked out. Even when fan is stuck humming, as soon as temp drops and it tells it to go in high, it takes off and all is well for a while. I don't even notice the temp difference in the house when this happens. I just know it's not right. Oh by the way, Dip switch came set with all down except 5 and 7 up. He changed mine to all down except 3 and 7 up. That puts your slow speed at a slower speed.


----------



## Fred61 (Dec 11, 2010)

That low speed fan was the reason I went with the EKO. I liked everything about the EB except for that feature. Although I was probably wrong because forum members that have EBs haven't reported that problem, I suspected the slow speed would result in a small dirty fire, creating creosote. If my EKO reached the upper limit setpoint and then the fan continued to operate it would be only minutes until it went to an overheat mode.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 11, 2010)

New development. The 2 amp fuse blew sometime over night Friday into Saturday. It protects the plc and the motor speed control board. I'm sure it's because the fan sat there humming for a while during the night. Called and left a message with all the developments for Dale. I'm confident he'll get back with me Monday A.M. I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## heaterman (Dec 11, 2010)

I am not at liberty to say a lot about it but I believe that EconoBurn's upcoming new control will address the High/Low/Off function leaving the Honeywell 4006 to serve only as a secondary high limit per normal boiler code.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 11, 2010)

With a little luck, maybe I'll get a new control as a fix for my problem.  :cheese: I'd love to see a variable speed control to maintain a temp rather than just high low. Maybe a more precise thermocouple setup also. Others have reported a 10-12 temp difference from digital to side readout. Mine being 20* difference is a problem if I need water temps near 200*. If boiler goes idle at 200* water temp, the digital already has it at 220* which sets off over temp.


----------



## heaterman (Dec 11, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> With a little luck, maybe I'll get a new control as a fix for my problem.  :cheese: I'd love to see a variable speed control to maintain a temp rather than just high low. Maybe a more precise thermocouple setup also. Others have reported a 10-12 temp difference from digital to side readout. Mine being 20* difference is a problem if I need water temps near 200*. If boiler goes idle at 200* water temp, the digital already has it at 220* which sets off over temp.



Still under construction and it will be a while until it is ready for the market so don't hold your breath.  I'll just say the new control will contain a number of nice usable features.


----------



## Piker (Dec 12, 2010)

I have been scratching my head over this issue for a while now... 

Numbus board issues with the Econoburn controls are nothing new, even on new boilers.  I have had my share of them for sure, and in fact, several "discussions" with the factory about the problem.  Apparently they are now saying that the high limit aquastat was never intended to shut down the fan except in emergency cases...  this after finding out that switching the fan back on in low fire is drawing too many amps through the nimbus board and burning them out.  Problem is, if there is no call for heat, the boiler is absolutely going shut the fan off at some point.  They maintain that the boiler will not overheat in low fire... that there is only enough air to keep the coals alive... but when I open the bottom of a 150 on low fire and see an 1800° torch that is 6" long coming out of the nozzle... that seems like more than just keeping the coals alive.  

I had one of my customers get service directly from econoburn a week or so ago for this very issue.  They swapped the nimbus board, and reset the dip switches so the fan on low fire would just barely turn... this was an attempt to keep the fan running all the time so that you don't have that high amp draw through the numbus board when the high limit aquastat releases... problem is... the boiler doesn't gasify at this slow fan speed... and it creosoted up terribly in just a few days time while burning way more wood than normal.  Ultimately, the customer just said forget the low fire, and set his digital aquastat higher than the mechanical... now the mechanical aquastat controls the boiler, and he only has high fire.  Econoburn seems okay with this setup.... so now I am considering sending my own letters out to customers telling them about the issue and how to try to prevent it.  

The funny thing is, this isn't a hard fix... a time delay relay to run the fan flat out for 5 or 10 seconds on startup would solve the problem in a heartbeat... but doubtful that econoburn will add this feature to older boilers with warranty issues.  

cheers


----------



## willworkforwood (Dec 12, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> Numbus board issues with the Econoburn controls are nothing new, even on new boilers.  I have had my share of them for sure, and in fact, several "discussions" with the factory about the problem.  Apparently they are now saying that the high limit aquastat was never intended to shut down the fan except in emergency cases...  this after finding out that switching the fan back on in low fire is drawing too many amps through the nimbus board and burning them out.  Problem is, if there is no call for heat, the boiler is absolutely going shut the fan off at some point.  They maintain that the boiler will not overheat in low fire... that there is only enough air to keep the coals alive... but when I open the bottom of a 150 on low fire and see an 1800° torch that is 6" long coming out of the nozzle... that seems like more than just keeping the coals alive.
> 
> I had one of my customers get service directly from econoburn a week or so ago for this very issue.  They swapped the nimbus board, and reset the dip switches so the fan on low fire would just barely turn... this was an attempt to keep the fan running all the time so that you don't have that high amp draw through the numbus board when the high limit aquastat releases... problem is... the boiler doesn't gasify at this slow fan speed... and it creosoted up terribly in just a few days time while burning way more wood than normal.  Ultimately, the customer just said forget the low fire, and set his digital aquastat higher than the mechanical... now the mechanical aquastat controls the boiler, and he only has high fire.  Econoburn seems okay with this setup.... so now I am considering sending my own letters out to customers telling them about the issue and how to try to prevent it.
> 
> ...


This is interesting stuff Piker, and you certainly have much inside information that the rest of us aren't privy to.  I have a different perspective, based only on my own experience.   This aquastat/controller thing has been like a Twilight Zone episode for me (yikes, my age is showing there  ).  This post will be long, but I need to include the background.   I've been running my 150 since Nov 2008. During the first few days, the boiler temp would eventually hit what is referred to as "overtemp" - light flashing and buzzer going off. I didn't know what was going on because the boiler was not actually close to boiling over. Then someone with another boiler mentioned that the aquastat needed to be set down, and I also saw the same thing mentioned on the forum. So, I dropped the Honeywell aquastat to around 193*, and the light show stopped happening. I ran the boiler like this for 2 years fat, dumb, and happy - no reason to believe it wasn't correct. The boiler was performing well, and we used essentially no oil for 2 years. Then early this Fall I got the "humming", stopped fan as described previously. So, I called Dale and he told me the Honeywell is only supposed to be a fail-safe. Ok, I said, then tell me what I should be doing.  He had me do the dip setting swap (the 5/3, not the one Piker described), and also the TC33 high limit down to 210*, based on our heating needs. Plus the Honeywell raised above 210* to function as the fail-safe.  Then I ran a few larger loads, just to see what happened when the upper limit is reached. The TC33 was working ok temp-wise, stopping the fan at 209*, and starting up again around 201 (based on the 10* differential setting that I'm using). The lower fan setting also performed better, so everything was great except for one thing - the light and buzzer were back. I figured there must also be a controller setting to stop the light and buzzer, so I called Dale about that. I was fairly amazed when he told me that the solution was to BREAK the buzzer.  He told me to unscrew the cap, and snap the black buzzer in the center with pliers. I did that and no more buzzer - just the blinking red light remains - no problem with that. But there is one more bizarre thing related to this.  Dale told me that by setting the Honeywell up, the fan would continue to run on low speed (as Piker mentioned above). I just cannot understand that statement, and sent him an email to see if there was something I'm missing about this. I can't imagine any gasser that could allow a fan to continue running, even at low speed, unless the load always exceeds the boiler output. That's certainly not the case for me - all zones eventually shut off, and the boiler would boil over if the fan continued to run.  I was hoping he would reply by saying that the fan continues to run until it hits the TC33 high limit, but based on what Piker wrote above, that's not going to happen.  So at this point I don't know what's right or wrong, but as far as I'm concerned, the TC33 seems to be doing everything that it needs to, in the manner that it should, and the boiler is performing better than it ever has.  And there is the additional bonus of having a blinking red light whenever it's idling - I've actually come to think of this "overtemp" as the idling indicator light :lol:  So, I wonder if the "new" controller is the  offspring of the TC33, with a user-friendly way added to shut off the "overtemp" buzzer and the light.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 12, 2010)

My only problem with letting the tc33 go to high alarm is it turns on my circulator in the house to bring down the temp of the boiler during a high temp alarm. I want the house to be warm but..........

Piker, my 150 during what I think is a normal cycle, will normally run the fan for 2-4 seconds on high when it comes out of idle then ramp down to slow. However I have been there when the it came out of idle and the fan did "NOT" go into high speed. It just seemed to try to start in slow speed. Thus the problem. 
   I will probably try the idea of setting my tc33 higher than the aquastat. That will give me high fan all the time..until the aquastat shuts it down again...right. It would seem that I'll have alot more idle time running the fan on high all the time though. Yes? Do you think that will burn more or less wood? Probably less creosote though do you think?
  I thought I noticed more creosote this morning when I checked on the boiler  But thought maybe the fuse blowing and the boiler sitting idle for a while was the cause. He had me lower my fan speed yesterday afternoon with the dip switch. So that would account for the creosote. Thanks for all the info. Being new to burning wood, not only the 150 this is all great info for me. Especially since I'll be talking to Dale probably on Monday.


----------



## Piker (Dec 12, 2010)

Twilight zone indeed.  Break the buzzer... that's priceless.  Suddenly, the light and buzzer that were designed for overtemp are where econoburn now runs their boilers in idle.... yet the high limit aquastat that by the original design was to be set lower than the 220 overtemp alarm (tons of boilers shipped with that set to 180)...  was never meant to be tripped... that's mostly just insanity.  

The other issue is that when your light and sound show are going on... well,  light show after you break the buzzer (OMG that's just too much)... The dump zone is also energized.  So if you have the boiler hooked up according to the manual, you have do dump all the excess heat that the boiler makes when idling.  This is all just nonsense.  It seems like they are grasping at straws...  and I better digress here before I start to get unprofessional sounding about the matter.  

That fact that lower air volumes through the boiler makes your boiler run better doesn't surprise me.  Some of my own experimenting here and with a few of my customer's boilers seems to indicate that there was far to many CFM's being run through the boiler that basically just carried too many btus away.  This makes more sense to me now that I have a few solo plus boilers up and running... I haven't taken any precise measurements, but just by the size of the fans and the volume (decibels)  of the air flow they seem to have far fewer cfms flowing through them.  The problem is that if you just have the fan spinning a few rpm, you don't get the secondary burn... just high output smoldering.  That's a bad idea. 

-cheers


----------



## Piker (Dec 12, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> My only problem with letting the tc33 go to high alarm is it turns on my circulator in the house to bring down the temp of the boiler during a high temp alarm. I want the house to be warm but..........
> 
> Piker, my 150 during what I think is a normal cycle, will normally run the fan for 2-4 seconds on high when it comes out of idle then ramp down to slow. However I have been there when the it came out of idle and the fan did "NOT" go into high speed. It just seemed to try to start in slow speed. Thus the problem.
> I will probably try the idea of setting my tc33 higher than the aquastat. That will give me high fan all the time..until the aquastat shuts it down again...right. It would seem that I'll have alot more idle time running the fan on high all the time though. Yes? Do you think that will burn more or less wood? Probably less creosote though do you think?
> I thought I noticed more creosote this morning when I checked on the boiler  But thought maybe the fuse blowing and the boiler sitting idle for a while was the cause. He had me lower my fan speed yesterday afternoon with the dip switch. So that would account for the creosote. Thanks for all the info. Being new to burning wood, not only the 150 this is all great info for me. Especially since I'll be talking to Dale probably on Monday.



If you run the fan on high setting all the time, you might consider closing the shutter on the front of the fan to about 1/3 open...  

There's just no good answer here... and nothing coherent from the factory that I have heard on the matter.  Most of the control issues we've had as far as digital readouts jumping around all over the place, grounding issues, line voltage fluctuations, etc etc etc... can be dealt with in one way or another in the field to get things to at least work - may not work great, probably cost me a few hours and a few dollars, but will work nonetheless.  Design issues that result in premature component failure is an altogether different issue... and of course, breaking the buzzer and changing settings to get around that is just weird. 

cheers


----------



## sdrobertson (Dec 12, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> That fact that lower air volumes through the boiler makes your boiler run better doesn't surprise me.  Some of my own experimenting here and with a few of my customer's boilers seems to indicate that there was far to many CFM's being run through the boiler that basically just carried too many btus away.  This makes more sense to me now that I have a few solo plus boilers up and running... I haven't taken any precise measurements, but just by the size of the fans and the volume (decibels)  of the air flow they seem to have far fewer cfms flowing through them.  The problem is that if you just have the fan spinning a few rpm, you don't get the secondary burn... just high output smoldering.  That's a bad idea.
> 
> -cheers



Just a observation.....quite a while ago there was a post on running EKO's with only one of the two fans running.  I've been running for two years with only one and I have seen good results.  My father is also only running on one....we just closed the shutter on the disconnected fan and are keeping them for a spare.


----------



## Piker (Dec 12, 2010)

Another issue I have come across is econoburn controls that cannot handle any fluctuation in line voltage whatsoever... even if the boiler is on a a dedicated circuit.  The digital readout can jump 100° and set off the flashing light and buzzer... or just the flashing light if you decided to "break the buzzer."  I have also had the fan motor's bleeding voltage into the neutral or ground on these controls, causing similar issues.

One of the factory's responses to this was to place a jumper between the neutral and the ground right on the boiler wiring panel.  This is clearly against electrical code, as the only place the ground is to be bonded to the neutral is in your service panel.  This is coded this way for safety, and anyone using a jumper should remove it.  I made this code violation explicitly clear to them over a year ago, but I have no idea how many boilers they have shipped with this jumper, or how many customers they have told (or are still telling) to install the jumper themselves.  Perhaps as many as they have told to break the buzzer.  

I would expect any new product to have a few issues here and there... so to be fair, this stuff isn't necessarily out of the ordinary... but coming up with band-aids instead of real long term solutions for existing customers is unprofessional.  I am lucky... I have enough wherewithal to construct new controls for my customer's boilers as they fail outside of warranty... controls that are simpler, cheaper, and more reliable...  but the folks who purchased boilers factory direct may not have that advantage.  This is kind of a sad situation actually.  When you approach them about a failed nimbus board, they keep going back to that "the boiler was never meant to shut off by the mechanical aquastat" line.  This is just completely false, and is a direct contradiction to how the boilers were marketed over the past several years.

cheers


----------



## wantstoburnwood (Dec 12, 2010)

Duane my electrician opposed this jumper from day one. I will take it off right away  my boiler will set off the alarm but I was not advised to break the buzzer but it sounds like a good idea


----------



## willworkforwood (Dec 12, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> ...The other issue is that when your light and sound show are going on the dump zone is also energized.  ...  That fact that lower air volumes through the boiler makes your boiler run better doesn't surprise me.  ...  The problem is that if you just have the fan spinning a few rpm, you don't get the secondary burn... just high output smoldering.  That's a bad idea.
> -cheers


My dump zone doesn't get activated.  I have the EB piped in series with the OB, so at idle time the near-loop circulation between the 2 boilers is enough to stabilize and allow the WB temp to drop enough to restart the fan.  The lower fan speed/air volume resulting from the 5/3 dip setting change has definitely made for better efficiency, but also more idling due to satisfying the load faster.  I was a bit concerned about possible creosote forming in the HX tubes due to the lower fan speed/extra idling.  This Summer I changed the turbulator linkage to allow in-season access from the top plate, so this morning I pulled the turbs and sent a brush down - no creosote so far.  Thanks for your input Piker - it's good to have a pro on the job  ;-)


----------



## Singed Eyebrows (Dec 12, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> I have been scratching my head over this issue for a while now...
> 
> Numbus board issues with the Econoburn controls are nothing new, even on new boilers.  I have had my share of them for sure, and in fact, several "discussions" with the factory about the problem.  Apparently they are now saying that the high limit aquastat was never intended to shut down the fan except in emergency cases...  this after finding out that switching the fan back on in low fire is drawing too many amps through the nimbus board and burning them out.  Problem is, if there is no call for heat, the boiler is absolutely going shut the fan off at some point.  They maintain that the boiler will not overheat in low fire... that there is only enough air to keep the coals alive... but when I open the bottom of a 150 on low fire and see an 1800° torch that is 6" long coming out of the nozzle... that seems like more than just keeping the coals alive.
> 
> ...


 As usual it seems to be the controls that give the grief. My Atmos is not perfect either. There is no reason they couldn't put a high flue gas kick out for the fan or even better an adjustable one. The German GSE Atmos relies on flue gas temps to control the Belimo servomotor, as it should be. All far down the list to a Lambda boiler though, IMHO, Randy


----------



## Piker (Dec 12, 2010)

Singed Eyebrows said:
			
		

> Piker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, not only the controls...

cheers


----------



## pybyr (Dec 13, 2010)

HMM--

I've been pleased so far with my Econoburn, and I would like the company to succeed (good to see something like this being built in the US) but some of this is indeed weird.

I ran into some high limit situations when I first commissioned my boiler in January 09. and was definitely told at the time (by the company's VP Mark Odell) to set the Honeywell mechanical aquastat to cut the fan at a temperature low enough to keep the boiler from hitting the alarm point.  I was specifically told that the mechanical aquastat's role was to prevent temperature overshoot.

Also, the idea that the original factory-set low speed fan was/is supposed to result in no upward temperature movement is something out of fantasyland.  

I have found that while high fan speed will raise my boiler temp faster if speed alone is the only goal from a cool start, I definitely seem to get more useful heat per unit wood with the fan operating at low speed.  When I don't have an immediate need to pull the house up from being really cold, I will sometimes set the PID controller so that it runs the fan at low speed the whole time-- and have seen my boiler go from 80 to +/- 195 that way, including having the house call on the boiler for heat as soon as it  goes above 150.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 13, 2010)

Pybyr, I too would like to see this company succeed. However, if people looking for info on what boiler to buy, come to a sight like this and see the issues with the boilers not getting resolved..well that's not a good thing. I hope they resolve my fan issue this week but time will tell. I too liked the slow speed but if the only way I can ensure the fan will start, then I'll have to run it in high all the time.....at least until they get my issue resolved. I'm pulling for them.


----------



## willworkforwood (Dec 13, 2010)

Here is a different take on Econoburn's current problems - as always JMHO .  Before getting into that, I'll say that I believe they sell very well-built boilers.  There are no stories of dripping panels as the Greenie and Seaton owners have, and no manufacturing/quality issues with the boiler itself (at least not posted on this forum).  That said,  I believe that from the beginning, they have taken the wrong position  on how their boilers should be run.  Nothing in their marketing approach would indicate to a potential buyer that thermal storage is essential to the optimal functioning of their boilers.  They do understand creosote issues - my 2 year old boiler has a message stamped on it:  "Only 20% wood or less".  But, as we know, that's only one part of the problem, because long periods of idling causes creosote issues even with 20% wood.  So, it seems that they have gone in multiple directions with regard to the controls, and fan operation, in an attempt to resolve every individual issue that comes along.  In the process, there are multiple messages being delivered, creating lots of confusion among the owners.  I believe they should fall into line with many of the other major manufacturers; and have a policy that basically says "thermal storage is essential for good operation, and you need to clearly understand the issues if you are planning to run without it, prior to purchasing the unit".  Having something like that in place, they can then say very simply - we warned you, now either get storage or burn smaller fires.  Forget about trying to get the fan to continuously spin at 2 rpm.  I was fortunate to find this forum before buying my boiler, so I was well aware in advance of all the issues of running without storage.  I'm fine with running the boiler this way - not nearly as good as with storage, but we make it work.  But some buyers are not aware of these issues, and I believe that's where most of Econoburn's problems reside.  Right now it's apparent that they are trying to be all things to all idlers.


----------



## mtnmizer (Dec 13, 2010)

Some interesting issues to take note of in this thread.  My 150 had the overheat circuit go dead leaving the overheat
zone open.  A call to the factory with Dale doing a long distance diagnosis resulting in new overheat relay shipped out. 

  A good number of devices with these new boards used in appliances have given me problems, my new Weil-McLain boiler shuts down after a power outage and has to be rebooted.  Not a comforting thought when leaving in the winter for
a few days.  The factory sent out a relay box to put inline but not much of a fix IMO.  The older controls use on maytags are
far more reliable than the new electronics according to the appliance repairmen I've spoken with.  Even high end 
Viking ranges are prone to board failure.

  I'm very satisified with my EB 150 to date but I suspect if there is something to worry about it is the controls.  I also
was advised that the aquastat was the high temp shut off not the board...news to me 

I put a switch on the Aquastat wire which lets me shut off the fan to reload without shutting down the unit.  On a couple of occasions on restart, the fan just hums and I then have to flip the main switch off/on to get it going again.  Since I'm running without storage  and go to idle a lot I can see that being a potential failure point.  If one of the techs on this board has some
insight to this issue I'd be interested in hearing more..  MM


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 13, 2010)

I spoke with Dale this morning. He's sending me a new nimbus(spelling?) board. I would like to be perfectly clear to everyone. I'm not unhappy with the boiler. I've read the specs on the boiler plate dimensions and such. It's a solid boiler! The tech support is great. I mentioned in an earlier post that he may have blew off a comment about the digital temp being 20* off but I also mentioned one line later that he only had 30 minutes left in his shift and he was focusing on my major issue being the fan. The fan will keep me warm. The digital temp is a convenience. I only started my boiler 5 days ago and since I've realized the 20* temp difference is a buffer zone for me. I actually told him I was good with the buffer. If it alarms at 220, my actual water temp is 200. I only need 170-180*. I can work around that. 
   My biggest concern right now is the 2 amp fuse blowing in the middle of the night. I'm setup so the oil boiler will kick on if the wood boiler isn't circulating to the house so a cold house isn't my concern, but I bought the wood boiler so I didn't have to buy more oil.
   Now, someone on here has a direct connection to Dale because Dale felt I was trash talking the company. For the record, My name is not Duane. And if all my posts are read again everyone will see I'm pulling for Econoburn. Now they need to do the right thing and make all owners happy. Then they will be a very successful company. Admit the faults and correct them. Learn from mistakes etc etc.
   Just my opinion, they should program their fan controllers so you can set a min and a max. < min fan runs full out. > max the fan shuts off. In between they can work their magic. I agree the aquastat should be over temp shutoff only. But it won't be unless the boiler internals are set to stop it. I've seen temps drop/rise 20-30* in a 12 hour period where I live, so if a boiler keeps the coals alive during a rise in ambient temps, the temp is bound to satisfy the aquastat unless the fire is choked.
   Start admitting you need storage and you are in direct competition with Garn. Hmmmm?
   I'll keep posting until my boiler stops blowing fuses and making me buy more oil.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 13, 2010)

I spoke with Dale this morning. He's sending me a new nimbus(spelling?) board. I would like to be perfectly clear to everyone. I'm not unhappy with the boiler. I've read the specs on the boiler plate dimensions and such. It's a solid boiler! The tech support is great. I mentioned in an earlier post that he may have blew off a comment about the digital temp being 20* off but I also mentioned one line later that he only had 30 minutes left in his shift and he was focusing on my major issue being the fan. The fan will keep me warm. The digital temp is a convenience. I only started my boiler 5 days ago and since I've realized the 20* temp difference is a buffer zone for me. I actually told him I was good with the buffer. If it alarms at 220, my actual water temp is 200. I only need 170-180*. I can work around that. 
   My biggest concern right now is the 2 amp fuse blowing in the middle of the night. I'm setup so the oil boiler will kick on if the wood boiler isn't circulating to the house so a cold house isn't my concern, but I bought the wood boiler so I didn't have to buy more oil.
   Now, someone on here has a direct connection to Dale because Dale felt I was trash talking the company. For the record, My name is not Duane. And if all my posts are read again everyone will see I'm pulling for Econoburn. Now they need to do the right thing and make all owners happy. Then they will be a very successful company. Admit the faults and correct them. Learn from mistakes etc etc.
   Just my opinion, they should program their fan controllers so you can set a min and a max. < min fan runs full out. > max the fan shuts off. In between they can work their magic. I agree the aquastat should be over temp shutoff only. But it won't be unless the boiler internals are set to stop it. I've seen temps drop/rise 20-30* in a 12 hour period where I live, so if a boiler keeps the coals alive during a rise in ambient temps, the temp is bound to satisfy the aquastat unless the fire is choked.
   Start admitting you need storage and you are in direct competition with Garn. Hmmmm?
   I'll keep posting until my boiler stops blowing fuses and making me buy more oil.


----------



## heaterman (Dec 13, 2010)

_Start admitting you need storage and you are in direct competition with Garn. Hmmmm?_

It's the Euro way and also the reason Martin designed the Garn the way he did some 30 years ago. Adequate..........and I do mean adequate in terms of gallons per output of the boiler as well as the load served. It just takes a lot of complexity, babysitting and complication out of wood burning.

Mark O'Dell told me that when they started selling EconoBurn he estimated that maybe 5-10% of the units went in with storage. The percentage is now over 80% from what he told me. Sounds like people are getting on the right track for gasification and btu storage to me. That's a good thing.


----------



## Piker (Dec 13, 2010)

I am going to chime in here one more time, and then I'm going to call it a day.

The issue with the econoburn controls is not one of idling or thermal storage... it's one of control reliability and functionality.  There is nothing wrong with running a forced draft gasifier without storage, providing you have adequate control over the draft and, well... the controls... they need to work for goodness sake.  If the controls work, and the homeowner burns responsibly, there will not be major issues, and the units will perform admirably.

The recent discussion here at hearth.com has pressed a few buttons at econoburn, and I had a few productive and actually very friendly email exchanges with dale today.  I shared with him my thoughts on adding a time delay relay to bypass the nimbus board on fan startup, providing full voltage until the fan was past the capacitor stage, at which point the time delay would de-energize and then run normally through the nimbus board, providing both high and low fire, as well as idle.  His response:  

Duane,
I believe this will work, at the same time it will also take the burden off the nimbus upon start up. I will look further into it.
Thanks

Dale


This is encouraging to me, and should also be encouraging to everyone else that it appears they are getting the message, are willing to admit that there is an issue, and hopefully plan to rectify the situation with a real fix and not just a band aid.  People spent a lot of money on their econoburn boilers, and they deserve to have this type of issue resolved.  

On a very positive note, econoburn has been valiant at repairing and fixing issues with the vessels themselves...  when there is a leaky or cracked vessel, or even a bad weld in an area that doesn't involve water leakage, there are no questions asked, they simply either replace or repair.  If they move forward with that same mindset on the controls, they might just do ok long term.

Heaterman... if 80% of econoburn boilers are being installed with thermal storage these days, I will eat an econoburn boiler.  There's just no way that is true.  Not that it matters a whole lot one way or the other, but part of the  beauty of forced draft is that people don't need to spend the money up front for storage... and if they were going to spend the money on thermal storage, they would not be buying a forced draft unit when there are draft induction units that cost equal or less money, and don't have issues with backpuffing and smoke spillage into the house because of stack thimbles exiting below the top of the upper chamber door.  Just my $.02.

Cheers


----------



## pybyr (Dec 13, 2010)

I have a tentative thought for something that might be much simpler than the time delay relay.

Right now, the high limit mechanical aquastat is placed between the output of the Nimbus speed controller and the blower motor.

I've noticed on my unit (EBW-150, arrived August 2008 and placed in service January 09) and just re-confirmed, that if the fan is running at low speed and I turn the entire unit off (such as to load wood) and then turn it back on, the fan starts out at high speed for a very brief moment, and then settles back down to the low speed.  You almost wouldn't notice it (the brief full speed fan) if you weren't trying to observe it.

This suggests to me that the Nimbus speed control may itself be set up to start motors on full speed, then drop down to a reduced setting, in order to avoid the "slow start current overload" that seems to be at the root of the problems being discussed here.  That would make sense, as a situation with a motor struggling to start is not only bad for the control (current overload) but also for a motor.

If indeed the Nimbus operates that way, and if the mechanical high limit aquastat were moved [in circuit placement, not physical location] to interrupt power to the supply side of the Nimbus, instead of the output side, then all would be well.

From looking at the circuit/ wiring diagrams [see   www.woodheating.ca/EBInstalMan.pdf  print-numbered pages 14 and 16] I am not seeing any aspects of the circuit that appear as if they would be negatively impacted by that change-- but I invite more eyes and grey matter to see if there's a hole in my thinking.

Also, can anyone else confirm whether the Nimbus does indeed start [from a no power input condition] with a brief full speed output?  Do other peoples' EBWs with the 2-speed fan display the same behavior as mine [with the really brief burst of full speed blower operation if the boiler is powered off, and then back on, when it is set/ running so that the blower is otherwise at low speed]?


----------



## pybyr (Dec 13, 2010)

AHA!  Just confirmed that the Nimbus speed control does indeed, when first powered-up, give a brief burst of full speed output:

See Nimbus manual, page 8, lower left:

"Start Pulse: Some fans that run just fine at lower
voltages will not start at these voltages; therefore the
Nimbus will start fans at full voltage for 2 seconds before
throttling back to the appropriate control speed."

AT: 
http://www.controlres.com/pdf/Nimbus.pdf

So-- the only remaining issue, I think, is whether there's any drawback to moving (electrically speaking) the high-limit mechanical aquastat to control the power into, rather than the power out of, the Econoburn's Nimbus.  I cannot see any drawback, but invite others to see if you can identify anything that I am missing.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 13, 2010)

mtnmizer said:
			
		

> A good number of devices with these new boards used in appliances have given me problems, my new Weil-McLain boiler shuts down after a power outage and has to be rebooted.  Not a comforting thought when leaving in the winter for
> a few days.  The factory sent out a relay box to put inline but not much of a fix IMO.  The older controls use on maytags are
> far more reliable than the new electronics according to the appliance repairmen I've spoken with.  Even high end
> Viking ranges are prone to board failure.



Don't get me started on Viking ranges.  I own one that I bought during a (now long ago/over) high-earning window in the late '90s, on the thought that buying a top quality item would cost less, in the long run, than a more regular-grade item.  It's been plagued with ignitor issues for both the oven the burners.  I have been able to repair it myself, but it is ridicuous that it was not designed more robustly, or at least in a manner that'd be easier to service when certain parts that _will_ fail, eventually do.

Too many products these days are designed in a manner that they end up being throw-aways (infeasible or uneconomical to service)(or unique proprietary parts that become unavailable after a few years).

One of the main things that attracted me to, and continues to impress me about the Econoburn is that it is designed and built in an extremely robust manner- both the metalwork and the controls (which are all standard industrial/ commercial grade parts).  It's the total opposite of a modern throw-away product- which is what I want for a product involving this degree of dollar and effort investment.

The last few years have been a "wild ride" in the wood boiler field [look at the Greenwood, or worse, the Adobe] and I accept that there are often some inevitable unforeseen glitches that need to be worked out on many products.

Even though the Econoburn's controls may need some refinement, I am glad that they use standard parts, and "accessible/ understandable modes"- that users can repair or figure out/ refine.


----------



## wantstoburnwood (Dec 13, 2010)

Trevor when I shut my eb 150 off when the fan is in low speed , and then turn it back on it starts off in high speed for a short time. My boiler was manufactured in August 2008 and installed in Oct of that same year. In Feburary 2009 the 2 watt fuse blewout during the night with no ryme or reason. I replaced it and haven't had any problems aside from the alarm sounding occasionally.  I am very happy with my eb -150 . No thermal storage .


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 14, 2010)

That's why i started the post. The fan starts in high and ramps down..........mostly. But I was present at the boiler when it came out of idle(the aquastat contacts closed) and the fan did not go into high. It seems to have tried to start in low and just sat there and hummed. I was only present for this once but I have walked in on the idle humming motor at least 1/2 a dozen times within the week. It sounds like the ball is rolling on a fix. Thanks to everyone for the support. I'd like to also publicly thank Dale from Econoburn for his patience with my frustration.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 14, 2010)

[del][/del]That's why i started the post. The fan starts in high and ramps down..........mostly. But I was present at the boiler when it came out of idle(the aquastat contacts closed) and the fan did not go into high. It seems to have tried to start in low and just sat there and hummed. I was only present for this once but I have walked in on the idle humming motor at least 1/2 a dozen times within the week. It sounds like the ball is rolling on a fix. Thanks to everyone for the support. I'd like to also publicly thank Dale from Econoburn for his patience with my frustration


----------



## kabbott (Dec 14, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> I shared with him my thoughts on adding a time delay relay to bypass the nimbus board on fan startup, providing full voltage until the fan was past the capacitor stage, at which point the time delay would de-energize and then run normally through the nimbus board, providing both high and low fire, as well as idle. His response:


Is the fan capacitor start? I didn't think you could use a Nimbus on a capacitor start fan...
Does the fan have a centrifugal switch for the start circuit like say a pump motor?
Also what happens if you raise the minimum speed on the Nimbus?

As far as the Econoburn goes I would like to see them succeed and I don't own one. No reason for "higher" tech boilers not to be made in the US,
we need more like Eco and garn... Need some US made lambda controlled boilers as well.


----------



## kabbott (Dec 14, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> [del][/del]That's why i started the post. The fan starts in high and ramps down..........mostly. But I was present at the boiler when it came out of idle(the aquastat contacts closed) and the fan did not go into high. It seems to have tried to start in low and just sat there and hummed. I was only present for this once but I have walked in on the idle humming motor at least 1/2 a dozen times within the week. It sounds like the ball is rolling on a fix. Thanks to everyone for the support. I'd like to also publicly thank Dale from Econoburn for his patience with my frustration



Sounds like the Nimbus is not starting the fan with a full voltage pulse. My Nimbus controls on my pumps most definitely start at full speed for a second
or 2 and then ramp back.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 14, 2010)

I just read up on the Nimbus board. The nimbus will start the motor at full speed for 2 seconds. But if the aquastat is opening/closing the output signal of the Nimbus, The Nimbus will think it already gave the motor its start signal? Unless the nimbus senses the interruption on the output?


----------



## kabbott (Dec 14, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> I just read up on the Nimbus board. The nimbus will start the motor at full speed for 2 seconds. But if the aquastat is opening/closing the output signal of the Nimbus, The Nimbus will think it already gave the motor its start signal? Unless the nimbus senses the interruption on the output?



Nope, senses on the input only as far as I know.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 14, 2010)

After further reading, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here. All feedback is appreciated. I belive this is the wrong controller for the application. This controller is more designed for blowers used for cooling. The logic of the controller, if I'm reading things right, when used in Temp control mode will turn the fan off when temp falls below programmed setting. Basically if the sensed equipment cools down enough the blower will turn off.   That being said, our boilers are not using temp control. They are using voltage control. They could not use temp control because we would want to turn the fans on if the temp dropped, not off. So yes you could use voltage control as we do, but why not use a controller logically built for heating control and use the temp inputs to regulate your induction fan? And yes turn the fan off when a predetermined high temp is sensed. Then you can leave the aquastat on the output side of the blower and use it strictly as a safety shutdown rather than a control shutdown. 
    There is a lot of functionality in the nimbus that is not being used because it is not geared towards heating control.


----------



## heaterman (Dec 14, 2010)

Ya know.............The technology to make the Econoburn or any other similar unit truly variable speed is out there on the market right now. The Wilo ECO line of pumps for example has the capability to monitor water temperature and increase/decrease speed accordingly via a water temp sensor. Seems to me that the same thing could be done with a draft fan provided it was equipped with an ECM motor. Of course the draft fan would cost upwards of $400 but a person would have a boiler that would come as near as possible to matching the required load. A nice additional feature of this type of motor is a sharp increase in starting torque. It seems to me that application of that on the front end along with the ability to damper or shut off a corresponding number of flue tubes would likely get you down to as low as 40% firing rate. This would drastically reduce the size of storage required but still avoid total combustion shutdown.  On the negative side it would probably add about 10 Franklin's to the unit price and a fair amount of complexity with a servo of some kind modulating the heat exchanger capacity. 

AFA EconBurns upcoming control.......all I can say at this point is that it will address the issues raised here and add a few more features when available. From what I see on paper, it will definitely improve the product and also interface with planned upgrades to combustion technology in other areas.  I believe they are going though the approval process right now.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 14, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> After further reading, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here. All feedback is appreciated. I belive this is the wrong controller for the application. This controller is more designed for blowers used for cooling. The logic of the controller, if I'm reading things right, when used in Temp control mode will turn the fan off when temp falls below programmed setting. Basically if the sensed equipment cools down enough the blower will turn off.   That being said, our boilers are not using temp control. They are using voltage control. They could not use temp control because we would want to turn the fans on if the temp dropped, not off. So yes you could use voltage control as we do, but why not use a controller logically built for heating control and use the temp inputs to regulate your induction fan? And yes turn the fan off when a predetermined high temp is sensed. Then you can leave the aquastat on the output side of the blower and use it strictly as a safety shutdown rather than a control shutdown.
> There is a lot of functionality in the nimbus that is not being used because it is not geared towards heating control.



Some of the literature associated with the Nimbus focuses on fans and cooling simply because those are good markets to pitch the product to.  There's nothing about the Nimbus that limits it to that-- or anything that makes it "wrong" for the use in the Econoburn.  Some of the folks here on the forum are using it to control pump speed 

There are features of the Nimbus (the potential for variable speed control) that aren't used in the current Econoburn configuration, but that's got nothing to do with whether or not the Nimbus could be used that way in this application.  Feed it the appropriate standard variable inputs (4-20ma or 0-10volts) that is being varied in the right way in response to operating conditions, and it would do lots of things.  It's just that the devices and programming to do all that get a lot more complex than the existing system in the EBW-- and they apparently did not want to "go there" in the first iteration.  

There may well be an issue with motor start load at low speeds, and how/ where the switching is done, but that does not make the Nimbus or any other part of the basic approach "wrong", within the limits of the balance of simple vs. complex that were decided on and embodied in this product.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 14, 2010)

kabbott said:
			
		

> b33p3r said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Once the Nimbus receives power, it is going to be oblivious (as far as the start-up full-speed pulse) to any switching on the load side of the Nimbus control.


----------



## Piker (Dec 14, 2010)

pybyr said:
			
		

> kabbott said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pybyr,

I have already emailed dale on your ideas.... I haven't looked at the wiring schematics for the Econoburn yet, but if the fix is this simple, and I think you're on to something here... this is going to save a lot of people a lot of headaches...

I can't remember exactly how the nimbus receives power, but for some reason I am thinking the aquastat might have to be upgraded to a DPDT though... but I could be mistaken.  

-duane


----------



## Piker (Dec 14, 2010)

theoretically, the alarm 2 over temp relay should be switched on the other side of the numbus as well.

cheers


----------



## pybyr (Dec 14, 2010)

Duane (Piker)-

I'll be very interested to hear Dale's take on this.  And glad if I helped spot a solution.

Trevor


----------



## Piker (Dec 15, 2010)

Pybyr,

Dale eluded today that he didn't think it would work, but didn't really explain why. I looked at the econoburn wiring schematics a little bit this morning, but I just don't have time to investigate this myself right this instant, as I am trying to finish up a big solo plus installation with 1000 gallons of thermal storage before the end of the year so my customer can get the tax credit...  It sounds like your idea has sparked some thought though, and I think eventually we'll get a fix in place that is something along those lines... hopefully.  To be honest, the control issues on these boilers have really been a pain.  I think it's great that they are working on getting a new control in place... but that doesn't help the existing customers... gotta get the old controllers up to par that are already in the field.  

cheers


----------



## Piker (Dec 15, 2010)

UPDATE:

First all, I want to thank Pybyr (Trevor) for catching the fact that the nimbus already has a 2 second time frame where it supplies full power to the fan before ramping down to low speed.  This is something that I have experienced every time I turned an econoburn on, but it just never really clicked in my head I guess...

At any rate, after reviewing the econoburn control schematics when I should have been working, and after a few more emails with dale today, we have a plan that we're going to try on a few units.  His concerns earlier that moving the aquastat wouldn't work were based on not wanting to see line voltage through the aquastat... but we can still switch the nimbus through teh neutral... so the scenario brought up by trevor should work.  I have also proposed that the alarm 2 overtemp relay also be rewired to feed the nimbus board rather than the reverse, and the fan be connected directly to the nimbus... this way, regardless of whether the mechanical aquastat opens, or the overtemp alarm opens the alarm 2 relay, we are cutting supply voltage to the nimbus, giving us our necessary 2 second full voltage pulse to start the fan when the boiler calls for heat.

Theoretically, you really shouldnt have to worry about the wiring on the alarm 2 relay since the mechanical aquastat should be set below the alarm 2 setpoint, but the fact is, the controls tend to jump around on some of these units, and can alarm out at times when temps are normal... so in an attempt to keep the jumpy controls from putting additional strain on the nimbus, I think it's best to change the wiring around.  

I have a few boilers in the field that I am going to rewire - units that haven't failed completely, but that are having fan startup issues.  If this fix works, and i am feeling pretty confident about it, we can hope that econoburn will perhaps send out some sort of bulletin on the matter to help prevent further premature failures.  We'll see.  

I must admit... helping out a company that is now my competition is not real high on my list... but the bottom line is I have plenty of econoburn customers who deserve to be satisfied... both through hillside energy and also from my time with econoburn as a sales rep... so i guess you gotta do what you gotta do.  

All for now... but feeling fairly positive about the matter.  Thanks again Trevor, and to the forum as well for being a place to hash this kind of thing out.  

cheers.


----------



## Piker (Dec 15, 2010)

UPDATE:

First all, I want to thank Pybyr (Trevor) for catching the fact that the nimbus already has a 2 second time frame where it supplies full power to the fan before ramping down to low speed.  This is something that I have experienced every time I turned an econoburn on, but it just never really clicked in my head I guess...

At any rate, after reviewing the econoburn control schematics when I should have been working, and after a few more emails with dale today, we have a plan that we're going to try on a few units.  His concerns earlier that moving the aquastat wouldn't work were based on not wanting to see line voltage through the aquastat... but we can still switch the nimbus through the neutral... so the scenario brought up by trevor should work.  I have also proposed that the alarm 2 overtemp relay also be rewired to feed the nimbus board rather than the reverse, and the fan be connected directly to the nimbus... this way, regardless of whether the mechanical aquastat opens, or the overtemp alarm opens the alarm 2 relay, we are cutting supply voltage to the nimbus, giving us our necessary 2 second full voltage pulse to start the fan when the boiler calls for heat.

Theoretically, you really shouldnt have to worry about the wiring on the alarm 2 relay since the mechanical aquastat should be set below the alarm 2 setpoint, but the fact is, the controls tend to jump around on some of these units, and can alarm out at times when temps are normal... so in an attempt to keep the jumpy controls from putting additional strain on the nimbus, I think it's best to change the wiring around.  

I have a few boilers in the field that I am going to rewire - units that haven't failed completely, but that are having fan startup issues.  If this fix works, and i am feeling pretty confident about it, we can hope that econoburn will perhaps send out some sort of bulletin on the matter to help prevent further premature failures.  We'll see.  

I must admit... helping out a company that is now my competition is not real high on my list... but the bottom line is I have plenty of econoburn customers who deserve to be satisfied... both through hillside energy and also from my time with econoburn as a sales rep... so i guess you gotta do what you gotta do.  

All for now... but feeling fairly positive about the matter.  Thanks again Trevor, and to the forum as well for being a place to hash this kind of thing out.  

cheers.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 15, 2010)

Glad that this may be a solution!  

And glad to be part of this mutual- assistance and learning effort that the Boiler Room makes possible.


----------



## kabbott (Dec 15, 2010)

Couple of thoughts/questions for Piker... 
Doesn't the aqua stat switch line voltage now and if you switch the neutral your still switching line voltage...
I have not looked at the Econoburn diagram but with the NFCS if you break the 4-20 mA control line the nimbus gives the 2 second full voltage
pulse when you re-connect it. Not sure what signals the high/low speeds on the Nimbus with the Econoburn.
If you REALLY don't want to switch the line voltage with the aqua stat use a relay???


----------



## Piker (Dec 16, 2010)

kabbott said:
			
		

> Couple of thoughts/questions for Piker...
> Doesn't the aqua stat switch line voltage now and if you switch the neutral your still switching line voltage...
> I have not looked at the Econoburn diagram but with the NFCS if you break the 4-20 mA control line the nimbus gives the 2 second full voltage
> pulse when you re-connect it. Not sure what signals the high/low speeds on the Nimbus with the Econoburn.
> If you REALLY don't want to switch the line voltage with the aqua stat use a relay???



You are correct that the aquastat has 110v being switched through it...   but it's not "hot" with respect to ground.  I think the reasoning behind dale wanting to switch the neutral instead of the hot is that you can't (or at least shouldn't) get shocked between the neutral and the ground.  Lots of customer's play with their aquastats - take the covers off and such... and if you're leaning on the boiler and touch the neutral you wont get zapped unless you somehow provide a faster path to ground than the ground wire itself... which isn't likely.  

In case someone reading this thread stops at this post, I have edited here to note what pybyr made clear a few posts down... if the switch on the aquastat is open, there is 120v waiting on one side of the switch that will definitely travel through a person to get to ground if it can.

I suppose either way you look at it... whether you break the control signal or the line or the neutral... we need to get that 2 second full voltage pulse.  Rewiring the alarm 2 overtemp relay to feed the nimbus and switching the neutral to the nimbus through the aquastat should achieve this, while keeping the homeowner safe.

cheers


----------



## ewdudley (Dec 16, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> Rewiring the alarm 2 overtemp relay to feed the nimbus and switching the neutral to the nimbus through the aquastat should achieve this, while keeping the homeowner safe.
> 
> cheers



Don't you fret there Mr. & Mrs. Homeowner, all them neutrals is safe, Piker told me so!


----------



## Piker (Dec 16, 2010)

ewdudley said:
			
		

> Piker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely did not say that!!... note that I said "or at least shouldn't" up above  

Always a chance that something has gone awry with someone's wiring somewhere and there is voltage in the neutral that shouldn't be.  

cheers


----------



## pybyr (Dec 16, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> ewdudley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another factor-- if "switching the neutral" -- when the switch is open (not energized) the conductor from the load is going to be carrying live voltage that's looking for but can't get to the neutral.  Only when the switch is closed (on) will that whole leg of the circuit be at zero voltage potential.  If that isn't understood, someone may run into an unpleasant surprise.


----------



## Piker (Dec 16, 2010)

pybyr said:
			
		

> Piker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well,  I think I just got schooled.  I obviously didn't follow through on my thought process with "switching the neutral"... but you pretty much just made it crystal clear...  I will retire to the corner for the evening with my dunce cap.  My apologies.

cheers


----------



## pybyr (Dec 16, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> pybyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No shaming meant at all-- it's a very common misconception.  It stands out in my memory because I experienced it first hand back during my mad scientist teenager years by receiving a 120 volt "bite" from such a situation.


----------



## Piker (Dec 16, 2010)

Despite having to eat some humble pie on the matter of overlooking the shock hazard when the switch is in the open position... I'm feeling pretty good about the prospect of a solution to this problem.  I think I am going to try to head out Saturday morning to make the change on the first boiler.  This is a unit that on occasion will not start the fan on low fire... but switch the main power off and then on and the fan gets the 2 second high voltage pulse and fires right up.  I'll keep you all posted.  

My guess, trevor, given your mad scientist background, is that you have already made the change on your boiler?  If so, feel free to share... 

cheers


----------



## kabbott (Dec 16, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> Despite having to eat some humble pie on the matter of overlooking the shock hazard when the switch is in the open position... I'm feeling pretty good about the prospect of a solution to this problem. I think I am going to try to head out Saturday morning to make the change on the first boiler. This is a unit that on occasion will not start the fan on low fire... but switch the main power off and then on and the fan gets the 2 second high voltage pulse and fires right up. I'll keep you all posted.
> 
> My guess, trevor, given your mad scientist background, is that you have already made the change on your boiler? If so, feel free to share...
> 
> cheers



Ahhhh... Humble pie is not bad, I try to get a helping or 2 every week myself... :red: 
Anyway that is why I asked, Not trying to be a smart A$$, But nothing worse than a false sense of safety.
Does Econoburn have the schematics on there website, or do they only come with the boiler?

Kris


----------



## Piker (Dec 16, 2010)

kabbott said:
			
		

> Piker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not believe you can get them from the website unless they have the manual as a downloadable.  Haven't checked on that lately, but I know they never used to have the manuals available.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 16, 2010)

Piker said:
			
		

> Despite having to eat some humble pie on the matter of overlooking the shock hazard when the switch is in the open position... I'm feeling pretty good about the prospect of a solution to this problem.  I think I am going to try to head out Saturday morning to make the change on the first boiler.  This is a unit that on occasion will not start the fan on low fire... but switch the main power off and then on and the fan gets the 2 second high voltage pulse and fires right up.  I'll keep you all posted.
> 
> My guess, trevor, given your mad scientist background, is that you have already made the change on your boiler?  If so, feel free to share...
> 
> cheers



Regret to say that I haven't actually tried it yet:

1) right now I run my boiler in such a way that it never idles (all heat goes to house any time boiler is over 150) and I plan timing and size of fires [so I am not worried about the fan issue yet] [but will want to get it sorted out when I complete the controls to use my storage]; and

2) In my old farmhouse basement with low ceilings, the main air return duct goes straight over the top middle/ front of my Econoburn, with only about 10" of clearance (the back area of the EBW is more clear, so that I can get in for cleanings, pull the turbs, etc.), so I am going to have to become a contortionist to open the top cover and work on the wiring in there.


----------



## pybyr (Dec 16, 2010)

By the way, I think we all owe a virtual round of thankful applause to Piker for his willingness to be part of finding a solution for a product that he no longer represents.  Too many people would just "fade away" in relation to such a situation.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 17, 2010)

You guys are amazing! I hope now that Dale from econoburn doesn't consider me a troublemaker.


----------



## Piker (Dec 17, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> You guys are amazing! I hope now that Dale from econoburn doesn't consider me a troublemaker.



HA!! If Dale thinks  anyone is a trouble maker it's gonna be me.   %-P 

All in all, this is good for Dale as well... short term there are going to be a lot of questions and calls on the matter, but now he'll have an answer and a fix for at least part of the problem with the controls.  That's if this solves the issue... Dale said yesterday that he wants to test this for a while before we throw a party.  Understandable... but he does have the boiler at their shop wired up like this and apparently it's good so far.

cheers


----------



## killick (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks all this has been a great thread which I have been following with interest even if the technical stuff is over my head. My EB 150 has been up and running for a week now and everything seems to be going smoothly.The fan kicks in on high speed for a couple of seconds before ramping down to low. The biggest issue I have so far is unseasoned wood but I am very pleased with the unit and it really cranks the heat.

Earl


----------



## heaterman (Dec 18, 2010)

pybyr said:
			
		

> Piker said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll second that! Excellent opportunity for a person to become the ground path in that scenario. I run into that in a lot of older homes with oil furnaces in them. Throw the switch for the furnace, it quits running so I assume it's dead but then get zotted because the hot is still live. Keeps life interesting............and probably delivers a preemptive defib to my heart every now and again.  Check them lines before you grab 'em people.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 18, 2010)

I work for an industrial plant as an electrical technician. Troubleshooting open neutrals are the hardest thing to teach someone new coming up through the ranks. Never mind the average homeowner trying to save a few bucks. Big sticker on front of boiler stating power "must" be turned off prior to removing covers should protect them from the blood sucking lawyers. White wire doesn't always mean safe to touch. I learned this dealing with 277 volt 3 phase common neutral lighting schemes in a 30 year old industrial plant where none of the feeds are marked or if they are, they are 30 years old and can't be trusted.
   "Never trust anyone when you are dealing with electricity". My grandfather taught me that lesson. You can't even trust your Grandfather(He did it on purpose to teach a lesson) God rest his soul. But I never forgot it!


----------



## pybyr (Dec 18, 2010)

heaterman said:
			
		

> pybyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I bought this house, the electrical system was an absolute nightmare- patchworked all over the place by incompetent people.  Poorly bonded neutrals and grounds such that no conductor had the voltage, or absence of voltage, that it was supposed to- and even the main ground turned out to be mostly figurative- and it all fluctuated depending on what loads/ switches were.  It didn't take me long to decide to stop trying to decipher the mess and just rewire it a circuit at a time.


----------



## Huskurdu (Dec 21, 2010)

I've just read through this entire string of discussions.  My problem is that my fan has been acting up and I blew the 2amp fuse the other day (keep your jokes to yourself!) and had to replace it.   Is there something I should do short-term to keep from ruining the Nimbus board (or whatever you call it)?  Or is the board already toast at this point?  I haven't had any other issues and the unit runs like it always has.   I've got storage so I could limit my burning so that fan doesn't go into slow mode, but it will be a little difficult to manage all them time.


----------



## b33p3r (Dec 22, 2010)

It's an ongoing issue with econoburn controls. Coordinate your digital temp with your aquastat so the fan always goes to high speed but doesn't hit 220* digital(over temp mode). I've been running mine at 205 digital and 180 aquastat(because the temp differential is 20-30* between the analog gauge and the digital thermocouple?). It supplies the heat I need with no over temp but lots of idle time which equates to a lot of creosote. It's not the efficient or clean way to run the boiler as advertised, but Econoburn is currently running a test to correct the fan issues. My friend has a heatmor and I joke with him that at this point I have an Economore!
   I think the problem will be resolved by the sound of things. I'm looking forward to the day the factory rep rewires my boiler the way it should be and it works as advertised. Gasifiers as advertised burn 1/2 the wood but the way I have to burn it now it's no better than a heatmor! The only difference is Heatmores let you get 12 hours sleep but you need to deal with creosote. Econoburn says 6-8 hours but a cleaner burn? I haven't seen the cleaner burn yet because of the fan issue. I own an economore! 
   Once the fan fix is approved and rewired, I might have a different attitude. Until then I am holding econoburn to their expectations!


----------



## Huskurdu (Dec 22, 2010)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> It's an ongoing issue with econoburn controls. Coordinate your digital temp with your aquastat so the fan always goes to high speed but doesn't hit 220* digital(over temp mode). I've been running mine at 205 digital and 180 aquastat(because the temp differential is 20-30* between the analog gauge and the digital thermocouple?). It supplies the heat I need with no over temp but lots of idle time which equates to a lot of creosote. It's not the efficient or clean way to run the boiler as advertised, but Econoburn is currently running a test to correct the fan issues. My friend has a heatmor and I joke with him that at this point I have an Economore!
> I think the problem will be resolved by the sound of things. I'm looking forward to the day the factory rep rewires my boiler the way it should be and it works as advertised. Gasifiers as advertised burn 1/2 the wood but the way I have to burn it now it's no better than a heatmor! The only difference is Heatmores let you get 12 hours sleep but you need to deal with creosote. Econoburn says 6-8 hours but a cleaner burn? I haven't seen the cleaner burn yet because of the fan issue. I own an economore!
> Once the fan fix is approved and rewired, I might have a different attitude. Until then I am holding econoburn to their expectations!



Thank you for your response.
I wonder why, after two years, that they are just starting to act up???  As I do have storage, I am running mine full out and trying not to over load the boiler with wood so that it never goes into slow speed or idle.  The downside is that on very cold days my baseboard needs 180* or better water temp coming to it and it's difficult to maintain only 500 gallons at or above 180*.  I need more storage or reduce my demand by insulating the walls in my house.  
On these 20* or better days it's not a biggy, but it gets way below that this time of year.  Well the good news is that I'm finally using my storage as designed, and my Economore  is still keeping the house warm.


----------



## Piker (Jan 1, 2011)

Quick update:

Thus far, rewiring the aquastat to the other side of the nimbus board for one of our customers with the humming/non starting draft fan has produced favorable results.  The fan is now started with a 2 second full voltage pulse every time regardless of high or low fire, and has yet to fail to start.  Remember this was a unit where the nimbus board hadn't failed completely, but was having issues with the fan not starting in low fire from time to time.  So far so good.  I think this was a great catch by Trevor on the possibilities of rewiring, and I am hopeful that no one will actually have to "break the buzzer."  

Now the issue will be whether or not Econoburn supports this change and whether or not they issue some sort of service bulletin if they do.  

cheers


----------



## goosegunner (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok, I just started burning my econoburn 200 yesterday. I may have an issue with the fan humming at times on restart. My controller appears to have a 5 degree differential. If I set the digital controller at 175 it usually will restart the fan at 170. I have seen it at 168-169 and it is either humming or turning very very slowly.


There are a few things I don't understand in this post

1. Do your econoburns have a switch on the side of the fan housing to turn off fan? Mine does but it sounds like some people are turning off the power to load wood.

2.Does your fan shut down to off when idling? Mine does after a certain amount of time.

3. The way I understand the manual it states the auqastat is used as a switch to stop fan in an over temp. Mine came preset at 215 degrees. I left it at that setting and the digital controller can be at whatever temp  I use and the fan stops at the set point of the digital.

gg


----------



## Piker (Jan 2, 2011)

goosegunner said:
			
		

> Ok, I just started burning my econoburn 200 yesterday. I may have an issue with the fan humming at times on restart. My controller appears to have a 5 degree differential. If I set the digital controller at 175 it usually will restart the fan at 170. I have seen it at 168-169 and it is either humming or turning very very slowly.
> 
> 
> There are a few things I don't understand in this post
> ...



Econoburn made changes to the settings of the plc controllers and mechanical aquastats after they figured out that starting the fan on low fire using the aquastat was burning out the nimbus boards.  The original intent of the mechanical aquastat was to cut power to the fan BEFORE the boiler reached overtemp.  This is how we marketed the boilers, and this is how they were shipped from the factory - with the mechanical aquastat  set to 180, and the overtemp alarm on the control set to 220.  The switch on the fan is a new feature that I have not seen.

The fix described here by pybyr, from what I can tell, allows the boilers to use the original control settings (the settings that actually work) without worrying about premature failure of the nimbus.  

cheers


----------



## goosegunner (Jan 2, 2011)

[/quote]

Econoburn made changes to the settings of the plc controllers and mechanical aquastats after they figured out that starting the fan on low fire using the aquastat was burning out the nimbus boards.  The original intent of the mechanical aquastat was to cut power to the fan BEFORE the boiler reached overtemp.  This is how we marketed the boilers, and this is how they were shipped from the factory - with the mechanical aquastat  set to 180, and the overtemp alarm on the control set to 220.  The switch on the fan is a new feature that I have not seen.

The fix described here by pybyr, from what I can tell, allows the boilers to use the original control settings (the settings that actually work) without worrying about premature failure of the nimbus.  

cheers[/quote]

Ok, then I guess my setup is completely different.

My boiler came with a switch on the side of the fan housing. You can see it in the picture below, metal switch.

The wiring connections on the back of the boiler had a yellow jumper between the Blue/white for aquastat connection. I was told it was to make the fan run if the aquastat is not used. I removed the jumper and connected the aquastat.

I don't have storage hooked up yet so I have been idling the last few days. I can see that is not a good idea and my wood might not be dry enough. I will start a new thread with a picture of stack.

gg


----------



## b33p3r (Jan 3, 2011)

Piker said:
			
		

> kabbott said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## b33p3r (Jan 3, 2011)

I've given the "Neutral" side switching a thought and I don't think it's the right way to go. With the aquastat on the neutral side, should the neutral short out to ground before the aquastat, it will allow the boiler to continue to run bypassing the aquastat. I know that's a long shot but insulation melting off a neutral and shorting to frame(ground) would just be taking a different path back to the neutral bus. And if it happened in the right(Actually wrong) place, that aquastat is no longer doing its job.
 On the otherhand, if the line side of the Nimbus were run through the aquastat and it shorted out, it would take out the fuse and shut the boiler down. Thoughts are welcome.


----------



## shagy (Jan 3, 2011)

Econoburn made changes to the settings of the plc controllers and mechanical aquastats after they figured out that starting the fan on low fire using the aquastat was burning out the nimbus boards.  The original intent of the mechanical aquastat was to cut power to the fan BEFORE the boiler reached overtemp.  This is how we marketed the boilers, and this is how they were shipped from the factory - with the mechanical aquastat  set to 180, and the overtemp alarm on the control set to 220.  The switch on the fan is a new feature that I have not seen.

The fix described here by pybyr, from what I can tell, allows the boilers to use the original control settings (the settings that actually work) without worrying about premature failure of the nimbus.  

cheers[/quote]

Ok, then I guess my setup is completely different.

My boiler came with a switch on the side of the fan housing. You can see it in the picture below, metal switch.

The wiring connections on the back of the boiler had a yellow jumper between the Blue/white for aquastat connection. I was told it was to make the fan run if the aquastat is not used. I removed the jumper and connected the aquastat.

I don't have storage hooked up yet so I have been idling the last few days. I can see that is not a good idea and my wood might not be dry enough. I will start a new thread with a picture of stack.

Very nice work. You did a great job setting up boiler. Very neat


----------



## Piker (Jan 4, 2011)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> I've given the "Neutral" side switching a thought and I don't think it's the right way to go. With the aquastat on the neutral side, should the neutral short out to ground before the aquastat, it will allow the boiler to continue to run bypassing the aquastat. I know that's a long shot but insulation melting off a neutral and shorting to frame(ground) would just be taking a different path back to the neutral bus. And if it happened in the right(Actually wrong) place, that aquastat is no longer doing its job.
> On the otherhand, if the line side of the Nimbus were run through the aquastat and it shorted out, it would take out the fuse and shut the boiler down. Thoughts are welcome.



If I follow what you are saying... I think it makes sense.  When I rewired this local test boiler for our customer, I did place the aquastat on the line side of the nimbus.  

Still operating fine by the way.

cheers


----------



## b33p3r (Jan 4, 2011)

Piker,
      Switching the line side is definately the "Safe" way to do it. Hopefully the nimbus is robust enough to not be bothered by alot of on-off switching. Goosegunner recently bought an EB 200 and it came with a new controller, not the TC-33. It cycles differently than the TC-33 and it also shuts the fan off at set temp as opposed to the aquastat shutting it down. He has a thread near this one. Check it out and if you get any info on the new set up please be sure to let us know.


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 13, 2011)

Guys - I read the thread and I may have missed something but my problem is that the fan continues to run on high as my wood load is depleted, causing the boiler to act as a heat exchanger to ambient. This condition slowly lowers the temp of my storage tank inside the basement, so I needed to find a way to stop the fan once a lower (relative to setpoint) temp is reached. 

Here are my thoughts and solution:

1) Timers are not a real solution for me, as I want the wood to burn completely out, leaving no chance for creosote.
2) My setpoint is 176 which seems to work well for now even with 500 gallons of pressurized storage.
3) I'm not getting the most efficient heat transfer due to my lines in the ground being 1" Central Boiler leftovers from my failed experience with Central Boiler's junk OWB that failed with multiple weld problems in less than 6 years of ownership.

Solution:

1) Wire the pump to run continuously regardless of what the controller is doing. In my outdoor Econoburn 150, it's wired directly to main power anyway, which facilitates using an ECM pump to make the system more efficient.

2) Install a normally closed relay in the fan circuit. The schematic shows the aquastat for high temp fan-kill already wired in the fan power circuit, so wiring an NC relay inline in the fan circuit will not cause undue stress to the Nimbus board since the aquastat opens the circuit when overtemp is reached.

3) Use the Alarm 1 on the TC33 controller to control energize the NC relay in the fan circuit at the Alarm 1 setpoint. The Alarm 1 contacts on the controller are wired to a pump relay and set at 110 from the factory for the indoor econoburn models. I'm simply setting it to 140, and when any temp lower than 140 is reached, the controller energizes the relay and opens the fan circuit.

I will wire a bypass and switch in the relay circuit, just to get fires started, but this solves my problem perfectly.


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 13, 2011)

One last note: another option would be to put the NC relay in the Nimbus power circuit, effectively shutting down the nimbus board when the low setpoint is reached. 

Manual for the Automation Direct TC33 is located here:
http://www.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/processctrlm/tc33_manual.pdf

Thoughts?


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 13, 2011)

"cooling Fan" problem solved!

Omron LY2-AC110/120 DPDT relay wired in the power supply to the Nimbus (terminals "N" and "L")
- opens circuit on the alarm 1 setpoint via terminals 9 and 10 on the TC33 controller
- You have to make sure the Function for alarm 1 is set to "Low Alarm" by setting "A1Fu" to "0"
- pump must be wired directly to power and not controlled by the boiler controls


----------



## pybyr (Feb 13, 2011)

mpoyneer said:
			
		

> "cooling Fan" problem solved!
> 
> Omron LY2-AC110/120 DPDT relay wired in the power supply to the Nimbus (terminals "N" and "L")
> - opens circuit on the alarm 1 setpoint via terminals 9 and 10 on the TC33 controller
> ...



I'm not sure I have followed the details of how your system is set up, but if you have a pump running all the time, what do you have in place for boiler return temperature protection at the beginning of and during a burn?  Econburn's stock system switches the pumps to do that, turning off the system circulator and turning on the near/ bypass pump until the boiler is above a set temperature.  Maybe you have other provisions in place- but you don't want prolonged periods where there is a fire but the heat draw prevents the boiler from attaining and remaining at relatively high temperatures.


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 13, 2011)

Pybyr - I have a Danfoss Thermic 3-way mixing valve w/140 deg element between the supply and return for that very reason.


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 13, 2011)

Pybyr - the outdoor boilers are wired very differently than the indoor models, trust me: I tried to setup mine using the schematic from the manual and it's nothing like the indoor units. Mainly, the pump is wired direct and always on.

When I installed the Omron L2Y DPDT relay (using alarm1 to energize the coil), I was able to use one side of one pole of the relay to open the power to the Nimbus module and kill the fan. 
- The other side of the pole was used to light an LED switch that I wired in the coil side of the relay for a bypass to get a fire going past the alarm 1 setpoint.
- since this is a DPDT relay, I ran two additional wires from the other pole that I plan to use for pump flow control: one connected to the normally open  side for low speed and one to the normally closed side for high speed.

These two modifications should make this boiler kick butt for use with storage tanks, for about $20 more for the relay, switch and some wire.


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 16, 2011)

I got home from work tonight to find the High temp alarm going off, and the controller showing 230 degrees. I opened the panel that covers the pump (outdoor models) and reached up and cracked the T&P valve and got a ton of steam. After getting everything settled back down, I noticed that my overtemp aquastat was set at 200, and I'm thinking that helped my overtemp issue but I wonder if the following contributed as well:
1) Danfoss 3 way mixing valve 150' away from the boiler, inside the basement near the storage tank
2) air in the system - would a small air pocket turn into a big problem at 180 plus temps?


----------



## willworkforwood (Feb 16, 2011)

Your storage should have been able to take the load - is the pump sized correctly to do the job?  What was the storage temp at the time the boiler was 230?.  Also sounds like you don't have an overtemp loop - can you pipe overtemp into your power-out loop?


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 16, 2011)

Storage tank is 150' from the boiler, in my basement connected via 1" Central Boiler PEX (non-oxygen barrier). I had a check valve between the bottom of the storage tank T and the outdoor boiler, which was installed behind the Danfoss valve. I removed that tonight, and also found that my Aquastat was set at 200, so I dropped that down to 180.

The boiler to storage head pressure is at least 17 feet because of the 1" lines, so I need to replace them this spring/summer with larger diameter oxygen barrier lines.

My rant will end with the attached image: it's a type K thermocouple installed in my boiler...is there something wrong with this picture or is the end of the thermocouple supposed to be in the air/not touching the boiler steel? The image is of the top of the boiler, which the insulated thermocouple wires wrapping around the steel strap in the picture and the black tip of the thermocouple is in the air.


----------



## NYEDGE (Feb 16, 2011)

Seems to me that your Danfoss valve should be by your boiler. The temperature of the water can drop during the 150' run.

During the second firing of my boiler I had a similar problem.
I had the boiler up and running and I had been baby sitting the new set-up watching everything like a hawk.
Well, I knew I couldn't dedicate that amount of time watching the boiler forever, so I ran out for a quick 20-30 minute outing to the store in order to ween myself
from watching the system run. When I returned my boiler had over-fired and the temp was at 220 and rising, and when I opened the dump valve steam came out.
I resolved the problem and found that some air that was still in the system and that caused the pump to "air-lock". Once the air was purged, I continued to monitor the unit
and it never did it again.

So, that being said, you may want to look at the pump and check to make sure that no there is no air in the lines, and that your air purging components are functioning. 
I'm not familiar with your boiler controls, but doesn't your unit monitor the boiler temperature and shut down the primary air intake fans?
If it did shut the fan, then it sounds like your pump was not able to move the water from the boiler to storage, and you had no heat sink for the boiler hot water to disperse the raising temperature of the water.


----------



## SnowTraveler (Feb 16, 2011)

In the air will give you a measurement error, should be tight to the steel.  You still have a lag effect even with it tight to the steel.  I put an additional thermocouple in a thermowell immediately at the boiler outlet piping of my econoburn and was amazed at how fast that one responds to temperature increase versus the one on the boiler jacket itself.


----------



## b33p3r (Feb 16, 2011)

2 of my biggest complaints with my 150:  1) The fan not starting up reliably in low speed after the aquastat shuts it off. Sometimes blows the fuse.
                                                             2) I have a 20* difference between the aquastat and the thermocouple.
     I originally talked to Dale about the temp difference and the digital temp readout being jumpy. He told me to bend the thermocouple "AWAY" from the steel? Snow traveler, your saying that is not good? I have not been able to run my 150 the way it was designed to run because of the temp difference. I basically own an Econo-more. Burn high fan or nothing. Problem with that control scheme is more idle time = more creosote. I think I'll start a new post to re-ignite the subject.  No pun intended.


----------



## goosegunner (Feb 16, 2011)

b33p3r said:
			
		

> 2 of my biggest complaints with my 150:  1) The fan not starting up reliably in low speed after the aquastat shuts it off. Sometimes blows the fuse.
> 2) I have a 20* difference between the aquastat and the thermocouple.
> I originally talked to Dale about the temp difference and the digital temp readout being jumpy. He told me to bend the thermocouple "AWAY" from the steel? Snow traveler, your saying that is not good? I have not been able to run my 150 the way it was designed to run because of the temp difference. I basically own an Econo-more. Burn high fan or nothing. Problem with that control scheme is more idle time = more creosote. I think I'll start a new post to re-ignite the subject.  No pun intended.




You should inquire about the new controller. My 200 has it and it seems to work well. It is no longer a nimbus board.

My thermocouple is actually in a well, not adhered to the top.

Gg


----------



## SnowTraveler (Feb 16, 2011)

goose, both of the items you mention are very good, but do not benefit owners of older units.  I inquired about updating the control package but did not get a reply.  B33, I thought you had done a workaround as discussed in another thread with regards to the Nimbus and low speed restarts.


----------



## goosegunner (Feb 16, 2011)

SnowTraveler said:
			
		

> goose, both of the items you mention are very good, but do not benefit owners of older units.  I inquired about updating the control package but did not get a reply.  B33, I thought you had done a workaround as discussed in another thread with regards to the Nimbus and low speed restarts.



From my understanding the new controller would be a simple direct replacement.

Gg


----------



## mpoyneer (Feb 20, 2011)

I bought my 150 in November of 2010 due to my Central Boiler POS leaking for the third time in six years inside the firebox. I'm going to call Mark/Dale on Monday and ask for a new set of controls, as I'm starting to have problems with my Nimbus board as well.


----------



## b33p3r (Feb 20, 2011)

Guys check out the newer post "Econoburn customer Support". I've been speaking with Dale recently and the fix is near. In fact I'll be one of the test subjects. Jump to that post and read.


----------

