# My Harbor Freight 30 ton splitter experience...



## Gooserider

As I mentioned elsewhere, I just got my 30 ton Harbor Freight (SKU # 91840 ) splitter off the truck today...  Very fast order, though it slowed down a bit at the end.  I ordered it on Sunday 9/14/08, it supposedly got to my area on Thursday 9/19, according to both HF and Yellow Freight, but I didn't get the call from the local trucking company that does the deliveries until Monday 9/22, and it actually got to me the morning of Tuesday 9/23 about 11:00 AM.  Can't complain, that is faster than HF usually gets the smaller packages to me.

No problems with the truck delivery.  The truck had a lift gate, and the guy rolled it right into the garage with his pallet jack.  He said they delivered lots of the units, and commented that I was luckier than the previous two customers - my crate was intact, whereas the previous two the crate was so buste up he'd had to take the unit apart in order to get them off his truck in peices.  He was quite familiar with the units and gave me some very accurate advice on how to put it together.

The unit arrived in a wooden crate - the coffin for two size...  It was a VERY well built crate, w/ two metal bands, plus sheet metal reinforcing the corners, plenty of strong nails, etc.  I was more gentle than I had to be, but it took me a couple of hours to get the crate apart, removing first the top, then each end, and finally the sides.  The stuff inside wasn't fastened down, but it also was heavy enough not to really need it.  I'm surprised the driver said he'd had smashed crates, it would have taken quite a hit to break up the one I got.

One thing I found that didn't make a lot of sense, was a big package of desicant - on the outside of the plastic sheet that covered most of the unit...  However that may have come from some other shipment, and fallen through the slats into my crate...

But finally I had the crate knocked down to a plastic covered pile of parts....


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## Gooserider

The only damage I've seen up to this point is possibly a bit of hit or rub on the top of the engine air cleaner and muffler.  Some damage to the plastic, but not bad.

I pulled the plastic off, and found that there was a little bit of bending to the muffler shield, and possibly the spark arrestor was a little bent - notice the gap at the top - nothing bad enough to fuss about though...

In addition to the two main parts of the splitter, I had a couple of boxes, pulled them out and got a visit from the local neighborhood rodent control officer / supervisor...  :coolsmile:

Opened them up, the smaller one had the trailer hitch, safety chains, a few bolts, a seal kit for the cylinder and the manuals for the engine and splitter - also the sparkplug wrench for the engine, the cotter pins for the axle, and the unused mainshaft key for the engine.


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## drizler

Not bad for coming from over yonder.   Is that a chinese attack cat?


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## Gooserider

The second box had the two tire and wheel assemblies and the hubcaps in it.  This box had a bit of damage, but the contents were fine. The bearings and seal for each wheel were on their axle, protected with a plastic baggy.

So much for the parts inventory, nothing appears to be missing, so on to the main event...

There are two big parts to this splitter - the wheel frame that has the tank, engine, hydraulic pump, etc. on it, and the main beam.  Assembly basically consists of putting the two wheels on the frame, and marrying the frame to the main beam unit.

But first, as suggested in one of the other threads I wanted to check the slack in the Lovejoy / spider coupling between the pump and the engine.  Sure enough, I felt a lot of slack, but because the pump mount opening is facing down, it is hard to see what is going on.

However disassembly is indicated...  I took the pump off first, and found it was a bit of a battle because of the suction hose to the tank.  It is very short and stiff, doesn't want to flex easily.  I then had a great idea to solve the problem of not being able to see what is going on with the Lovejoy - the pump bracket is symetrical, so I rotated it 90* - now the open side faces towards the outside of the splitter, and it's easy to see and reach the coupler, including the setscrews needed to make the adjustments.

Incedentally, while the pump is clearly marked Haldex, it may not be completely a stock unit - the other Haldex pumps I've seen just had a little short stub coming out for the suction hose to slide onto.  This pump has a much longer elbow coming out, which makes for a nearly straight shot for the suction line, but also means that if the pump ever needs replacing the suction line will probably need to be changed as well...  Also it would appear that there is no way to service the pump without draining the hydraulic tank, as the suction hose will be to short to tie up and keep the fluid in the tank.  Not a big deal...

It was a real pain getting the two coupler halves back together though, as the suction hose just didn't want to let me move the pump around enough to get the parts lined up.  I tried taking the hose off, which helped, but then found I didn't have enough separation to get the hose back on.  Finally unbolted the pump a second time, rotated it to get enough space to get the hose on, and bolted everything back together.

My observation was that there seemed to be two problems that were causing the slack - first is the rubber spider seems to be a bit of a loose fit between the coupler halves, secondly the halves aren't put on properly, they aren't close enough together, especially the engine side is too far onto the shaft, so the engine shaft is sticking out and hitting the rubber.  A very simple matter to loosten the allen screws on the couplers and adjust the position now that you can see what's happenning.


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## Gooserider

Now that I had the pump stuff fixed, I slid the beam and the platform towards the end of the pallet, twisting the platform so that each axle was hanging off a corner, giving me the room to put the wheels on, after packing the bearings.  I didn't have a huge amount of grease handy, and it was kind of old, but I didn't worry as much about the packing as I might in a case where I was planning to tow the unit a lot.  current plans are that I'll just be occasionally moving the unit around the yard, so I figure it isn't going to put any strain on the bearings.  This is why I'm also not planning to put the trailer hitch coupler on the beam, though I'm going to need to make some sort of coupler to hook up to the lawn tractor.

I figure that leaving the hitch off will make it that much harder for an ill intentioned person to "borrow" the unit without permission...

After putting the wheels on, I followed the truckers advice and simply stood the beam upright on the toe-plate (big enough that it was quite stable) and slid the platform over to the beam.  It was a bit of a challenge to slide the last of the packing crate pallet and the standard pallet it was sitting on out from under the platform frame, but once I managed that, the flanges on the tank slid right into the flange on the beam and let me put the swivel bolt in place.

That held the platform in place so that I could get the support leg on, and that finished the assembly...

Even with the wheels on, I could still see the lovejoy in the rotated pump mount.  

Another thing that bothered me a bit, and needed fixing anyways was the spark arrestor - as installed it angled down and towards the rear of the splitter, where I'd be sitting running the machine.  I took it off and found that it was essentially circular, and had a matching set of holes in the muffler cover, so it could be positioned pointing in several positions.  I remounted it facing down and front, where it will blow at someone adjusting the engine, a bit, but not terribly so.

I now had the splitter together, and put in one quart of dino oil (10-40) in the engine, and filled the tank w/ AW32 hydraulic fluid. It took most of a pail to get it up to the full mark on the dipstick, I'd guess about 4 gallons.

I then pulled the engine several times with it turned off and the hydraulic lever pushed to down, until I started to get movement in the cylinder.  This primed the hydraulic pump so that it never gets run dry, and also helps circulate the oil in the new engine.  After that I gassed the engine, turned it on and got a first pull start.

I then cycled the cylinder up and down about 5 or 6 times until it was running smoothly, with none of the  jerks or bumps that are typical of a cylinder with air in it.  I then shut down and checked the dipstic - well below the empty mark, it took the rest of the pail to get it up to about midway on the stick.


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## Gooserider

Now that I had a splitter, and it was running, I did a bit of splitting, just to see how things worked. 

Overall no problems.  I found I had to run it a bit faster than I was expecting, but I suspect that will improve as things loosten up in the engine.

Cycle time was reasonable, however the wedge doesn't seem to pop the logs apart as fast as the real triangular wedge on my friends machine, I found this one seemed to need for me to go all the way to the bottom to get the splits all the way apart, my friends machine the splits tended to separate by about 1/2 way down...

The lever is awkward to reach and operate, but I think there are ways to improve this fairly easily

More details tomorrow after I've run it for a bit more and am more used to it.

I've got a bit of splitting to do as you can see...


Gooserider


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## Gooserider

The to be split piles...


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## Gooserider

More to be split


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## Gooserider

A few more rounds, plus my rack for cutting down over length stuff.


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## savageactor7

Good report Goose, I see now that the splitter is outside your gonna run it in the vert mode. Keep us posted on any modifications of the control lever. I don't think most people in our disposable society realize that when they buy a splitter...that's it. Splitters last longer than marriages.


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## smokinj

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Good report Goose, I see now that the splitter is outside your gonna run it in the vert mode. Keep us posted on any modifications of the control lever. I don't think most people in our disposable society realize that when they buy a splitter...that's it. Splitters last longer than marriages.


3 times longer and still going


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## Gooserider

Driz said:
			
		

> Not bad for coming from over yonder.   Is that a chinese attack cat?



No, it isn't bad for shipping time at all...  I was kind of disappointed that it seemed to take forever between when HF tracking said it was in the area on Thurday, and it actually getting here on Tuesday, but that wasn't a huge problem.

As to the cat, that is Mittens, who owns the next door neighbors.  Ancestry unknown / uncertain, but he is a good ole boy, around 16 or 17 as best his people can figure out.  Very friendly, comes over to visit quite often.  

Very talented as well, he used to be on "happy pills" to keep him from spraying in the house. We occasionally do "cat sitting" while they are away, which included giving Mittens his pill - the pills which came from a mail-order pharmacy had labels on the bottle cautioning him against driving or operating heavy machinery while on them....  :bug: :lol: 

Gooserider


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## Gooserider

savageactor7 said:
			
		

> Good report Goose, I see now that the splitter is outside your gonna run it in the vert mode. Keep us posted on any modifications of the control lever. I don't think most people in our disposable society realize that when they buy a splitter...that's it. Splitters last longer than marriages.



I agree, this should be a "lasts forever" kind of tool.  I've always been a fan of vertical mode operation, which is probably a good thing as the unit seems much more suitable for vertical than horizontal.

I haven't tried running in horizontal, but have noticed that the beam seems very wobbly, which probably wouldn't help it any when trailering it either.  There is a lot of slop in the fit between the pivot tabs on the beam and the corresponding tabs on the tank, and the holes are much larger than the pivot bolt.  I'm tempted to take the bolt out and try to shove some washers in the space to tighten it up a bit.  The horizontal lock holes have a similar sort of problem, the beam goes down PAST the lock holes, you have to pick it back up a little bit to get the pins in - less than a half inch, but enough to be a pain.  I suspect it might be worth the effort to make a stop of some sort to better stabilize the beam, and also position it so the holes automatically line up.

There is a nice lift handle on the beam on the engine side, but nothing on the other side, it would have been nice if they'd put a handle on both sides.

The prop leg on the front of the machine isn't absolutely needed to hold it up in vertical mode, the weight of the beam is plenty, but without the leg it doesn't take much weight on the front edge to tilt it back.  With the leg, it's very well supported, I found that if you put the beam pin in the vertical locking holes, and the prop leg down, the wheel opposite the engine side is actually off the ground a fraction of an inch...

The beam itself is pretty well balanced, not to much of an oomph is needed to swing from horizontal to vertical, and the tongue weight when moving isn't bad.

It is a PAIN getting the pins in and out, the beam and prop holes need to be jiggled just right to make them line up, and the pins don't have any length to spare, it is very tight quarters to get the beam pins in and out - a real knuckle buster due to the lack of clearance.  I may try to make some longer pins with a stop on them so that they can be easier to reach for removal and inserting, and maybe come up with a better setup for the hairpin clips.

Other annoyances - The hydraulic fluid dipstick can't be reached with the beam in the down position.  The fill plug sticks out of the tank at about a 30* angle, so you need a funnel with a flexible nose to get the fluid in, but with the beam up there is nothing to support the funnel - with the beam down you can tie the funnel to the beam with bungies or string to support it, but as mentioned, you can't check whats on the dipstick.

The breather for the hydraulic tank is a hole in the fill plug, covered by an o-ring.  You are supposed to slide the o-ring down over the threads on the plug to expose the hole when splitting, then back up when done to cover it.
I might try getting some sort of small valve and drilling the top of the breather plug for it instead...

The control handle sticks out sideways to the right of the cylinder, it's reachable, but you have to reach over / around the pressure and return lines which is kind of awkward.  My friend's machine has the valve handle sticking straight out to the left of the cylinder, which seems more comfortable.  Because of the hoses and rigid plumbing between the valve and the cylinder, it looks like moving the valve itself would be an awkward task.  I may try reversing the handle on the valve (not sure if that would reverse the operating direction though, which would not be good) and / or bend the handle, or do something else to try and reposition the lever to a more comfortable place.

Overall impression is that it's a great machine in concept and overall design, but that the little details are more problematic.  Nothing that can't be either lived with or fixed without to terribly much trouble.

Gooserider


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## Gooserider

I've done some more splitting this evening, and more impressions...

As a splitting tool it's great...  I was splitting a wide range of hardwoods in sizes ranging from about 6" - marginal on whether to split or burn whole, to about 2', mixed varieties from oak and maple to who knows what, I'm pretty sure there was some elm involved.  Never had any significant change in engine pitch, or hesitation in the wedge for more than a second or two, and anything that didn't split just sheared right through.

My comparison is a friend's Yard Machine (MTD) 20 ton unit, which I think he's running a little bigger than stock pump on, and which I've probably cranked through 5 or 6 cords worth of rounds, at least.  When I'm comparing, I'll just say "the MTD"

This unit is definitely stronger as a splitter, but has some annoyances...

1. It seems much more prone to kicking out the round - I think it's a problem of not enough biting surfaces on the base plate.  This HF unit only has a little "V" shape that sticks up about 1/4", and is maybe 1" on each leg.  The MTD has two half circle shapes that stick up about 1/2", and are 3-4" in diameter.  They are much more agressive about biting into a round, in fact I sometimes have to pull a split off of them.  

This could be fixed fairly easily by welding some additional, more aggressive shapes onto the plate, which even gives an opportunity to make some sort of custom "brand" to impress into the ends of your splits (could this be used to ID a suspected firewood theif?)

2. The 9hp Subaru / Robin engine is sweet, but there is an annoying aspect to it...  It is mounted so that the crankshaft end is facing the user, with the hydraulic pump, etc. facing the rear of the machine.  This keeps the plumbing short, but it means the starter, choke, throttle and other engine controls are on the opposite end of the splitter from the user.  Worse, the engine is enthusiastically air cooled - the cylinder is well shrouded, with the recoil end of the motor functioning as a blower to force air through the shrouds cooling the engine.  The problem is this heated air exits out the back of the engine at the user....  This may have advantages in cold weather, but it probably doesn't increase user comfort when it's hot.  Worse though is that it seems to blow any dust and dirt that comes off the logs as they are splitting back in the user's face.  It also puts the gas tank towards the center of the machine making it a tiny bit harder to reach when filling up.

It would presumably not be terribly difficult to turn the motor around, at worst you'd have to drill some new holes in the platform, but doing so would probably require you to replace all three hoses on the machine (suction, high pressure, and return) and hydraulic hoses aren't cheap...  There might also be challenging aspects to routing the hoses, I'm not certain.

3. The valve position is definitely awkward...  Not sure what the fix would be, but I think trying different things with the handle is in order.

4. The hydraulic fluid gets HOT...  Hard to tell how hot, I need to find a thermometer, but the hoses and cylinder get uncomfortable to touch, and pretty fast.  Not sure if there are any good options for cooling, it does look like the engine may have some electrical power output abilities - there are several undocumented leads coming out of the covers, it might be possible to put some metal heat-sink fins on the tank and add a fan...

The MTD gets hot also, but it seems to take longer and not get as bad.  I may also be more conscious of it on the HF since in it's current configuration I have to reach past the hoses to reach the valve lever, making it harder to avoid contact with them.

5. Hydraulic fluid leaks - seems like the unit has lots of little ones, some may be more problematic than others.  I have a definite leak from the spin-on filter,  I tightened it some last night and it was better tonight but still a problem.  I've given it another 1/2 turn or so, will see if that stops it.  In addition I'm getting a slow drip off the bottom of the valve - I haven't quite figured out where it's coming from, but it looks like it might be the plug on the end opposite the valve piston.  I don't know if it will get better or not - if it doesn't, I'll be calling tech support for sure.  The cylinder does NOT appear to leak, or at least not significantly...  I get a thin film of oil on the piston rod, but it doesn't seem to get any better or worse as I work.  There is sort of a socket on the wedge that the piston goes into, and it looks like there is some fluid in that cup, but it doesn't ever seem to run over.  There also appears to be a little spray of oil that gets on the return hose, I haven't figured out where that is coming from, it might be drips from the valve, or something else...

Gooserider


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## velvetfoot

Maybe there's a little oil spitting from the valve-mine does.
Setting the beam vertical was something I didn't think of.
I don't think my unit has a hyd fluid dip stick.  Maybe I can buy one to backfit.
Happy splitting!


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## d.n.f.

That was some in depth reporting there.  Thanks for that.


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## Gooserider

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> Maybe there's a little oil spitting from the valve-mine does.
> Setting the beam vertical was something I didn't think of.
> I don't think my unit has a hyd fluid dip stick.  Maybe I can buy one to backfit.
> Happy splitting!



Unless the fitting is already there, it would be difficult to retrofit, would take welding on the tank.  However I'd expect that you already have one.  With the beam vertical, look on the top of the tank in between the ears where you put the locking pin for horizontal mode - pretty much even with the fill plug on the side of the tank.  There's a short pipe fitting there, with hex head plug in it - unscrew that plug, the dipstick is on the end of it.

Gooserider


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## velvetfoot

I'm pretty sure there's no dipstick.  I'll check again, but that might have been a design change.


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## kevin j

dipstick is handier, but they really are not critical. Just keep well over the suction, and an inch or two down from top.
Engine oil level is more critical because if too high, it can start gettting whipped up and foamed by moving air around the crankshaft area.  A hydr system doesn't have that issue. 
oh, make sure the reutrn line is well covered by fluid level. That can indeed aerate and cause problems if the return is too high due to poor design. Then fluid level could be fussy. 

k


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## velvetfoot

I recalled rigging something up since my finger wasn't long enough - the filler has a neck on mine.


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## Gooserider

Well, the manual which is supposedly copyright '04, they all should have the dipstick.  There are two openings to the tank that aren't used by hoses...  The fill plug which is on the side of the tank, opposite the engine, near the top, about where the horizontal locking pin goes; and the dipstick hole which is in the top of the tank, in between the tabs that hold the horizontal locking pin.  The fill hole has a neck on it that sticks out around 2"  at about a 30* angle, and I'm guessing is around an inch to an inch and a half diameter.  It definitely needs a funnel with a flexible spout, or some sort of hose to fill the tank.

The stick is on the end of the metal bolt head in the dipstick hole, and appears to be nearly as long as the tank is deep.  The "Minimum" line is probably around two or three inches above the bottom of the tank.  The "Maximum" line is an inch or two from the top.  

The suction line enters the tank just above the bottom, so I would guess that there is probably still about an inch or two of fluid over it if it was at the minimum line.  However the return line goes into the tank only a couple of inches from the top.  Unless there's a down-tube inside the tank (possible, you can't really tell from the outside) it would look like the return would be above the fluid level even when the tank was at the maximum level.

For what it's worth, I have essentially all of a 5 gallon pail of hydraulic fluid in the splitter right now, and the fluid level (cold) shows about 2/3 full.  I would expect that the lower tonnage units would show closer to a full tank since it wouldn't take as much fluid to fill the cylinder.  I was quite surprised at how much the cylinder and plumbing took - I had initially filled the tank to the full mark, after priming the pump and cycling the system a few times to purge the air out, the tank was below the minimum line...

Still I supposed I should't complain about the amount of fluid, a great many of the sites on hydraulic system design I've seen say that you should have one gallon in the system for each GPM of pump, or 16 gallons for my splitter...  

------------

On other notes...  

I'm still getting a lot of leakage from the valve, and I'm almost certain its coming from the plug on the end of the chamber where the operating piston goes in.  I've also noticed that if I put the valve in a slightly off center position, but don't push it all the way into the full up or down position, the engine starts to bog a bit, sounds like the pump is going into high pressure / low volume mode.

The oil filter is better, I keep cranking it tighter, and the leak there has slowed considerably, but I'm worried about over-tightening it.

I did some rough measuring to see if it would be possible to spin the engine 180* in order to get the cooling air blowing away from the operator position, and make the throttle reachable w/o having to run around the splitter.  Looks like it would be tight but doable - maybe.  It would be very tight clearance to the return line tank entrance and filter, possibly an additional elbow or other fittings might be needed.  Even if you did clear the filter, it would push the starter back to where it would almost be even with the beam face - potentially a concern if dealing with a big round....  Another issue might be the pump, the suction port inlet pipe has a 90* bend in it, and unless that can be turned, it would be facing the wrong way if you turned the engine around - worst case you might need to cut the bend off.   Bottom line, I think it's doable, but would be a little tricky.

Gooserider


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## velvetfoot

I saved the pdf of the manual at the time I bought the splitter and compared it with the current one.
It is indeed different.  Page 6 in the new one is at rev 7e, whereas mine has no rev number.
A search for 'dipstick' in both documents reveals no hits in mine as well.


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## Gooserider

Well I guess it is a change then, and probably a needed one - with the fill going in the side the way it does, it would be hard to see how much was in the tank from that hole - a fill in the top of the tank would possibly have been better, but they didn't do that for some reason.

Gooserider


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## Funk Brother

Goose - I've been reading your posts with great interest. I appreciate your brutal honesty about the pros and cons of the unit. Great pictures.
I'd like to chime in on one minor point you made early on: the wedge shape. Even though I have a different brand of splitter (Speeco), from the pictures it looks like the wedge shape on mine is very similar to the one on yours - sharp and thin for 3 or 4 inches, then expanding out to a traditional wedge shape after that. I agree that this design seems to slow down the splitting on straight grain pieces, because with a traditional wedge shape, many of those pieces might just "pop" apart after the first 2 or 3 inches of down stroke. At the same time, I think it helps on the real bastard pieces because it cuts through burl and nasty grain which might stall a unit with simple wedge shape. Wish there were a way to have the best of both worlds. I've been mulling in my head an easy method to add on a trianglar piece to each side of the thin section -  to make the wedge flare out quicker when I have a bunch of easy rounds. Maybe someday. Don't hold your breath.
Anyway, thanks for keeping us posted. Look forward to hearing more, like when you get into those big rounds you've got waiting. Some of them look like they could put up a pretty good battle.


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## JustWood

kevin j said:
			
		

> dipstick is handier, but they really are not critical. Just keep well over the suction, and an inch or two down from top.
> Engine oil level is more critical because if too high, it can start gettting whipped up and foamed by moving air around the crankshaft area.  A hydr system doesn't have that issue.
> oh, make sure the reutrn line is well covered by fluid level. That can indeed aerate and cause problems if the return is too high due to poor design. Then fluid level could be fussy.
> 
> k



 A good way to do a fill check is to make sure all cylinders are closed all the way then look into fill hole. Oil level should cover return and be  2-3 inches down from the top of tank to allow for expansion due to heat.  " i don't need no stinkin dip stick!"  LOL


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## lobsta1

> I’ve been mulling in my head an easy method to add on a trianglar piece to each side of the thin section - to make the wedge flare out quicker when I have a bunch of easy rounds. Maybe someday. Don’t hold your breath.
> Anyway, thanks for keeping us posted. Look forward to hearing more, like when you get into those big rounds you’ve got waiting. Some of them look like they could put up a pretty good battle.



Funk,
On my old home made splitter I thought the same thing. I ended up taking a piece of 2 x 2" angle & welded it on both sides starting where the wedge shape turned to straight back. I wasn't sure if that would be to much angle, so I ground down the legs to 1 3/4". After putting another 10 cords through the splitter, I realize I could have left it at 2"  & maybe even added on another 1/4" on each side. What I did definitely helped, but I could have been more aggresive in adding to the flare.
Al


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## Gooserider

FB - I think we both have the same ideas about the wedge shape.  As a data point, my friend's 20 ton MTD machine has a straight sided triangular wedge, roughly an equilateral triangle shape, 4"  on each side.  It shears through knots and gnarly bits just fine...  I've had some big rounds where I've had to reposition a few times, and maybe do the "slab off the side" approach rather than going straight down the middle, but the only time I've had something really give me trouble splitting is when I get a round that splits on an angle so that you have a pointy cone such that you can't get the wedge to go into the middle, but if you flip the round and try to split the big side, the tip keeps collapsing.  After a few off those I've learned that if you start getting a conical chunk, to keep flippiing it so that you are always trying to put the wedge into the big end...  OTOH the straight grain peices, especially white oak, will pop and fall apart almost before ANY actual penetration - the wedge makes contact, you hear the motor "grunt" for one or two cycles, and the log falls apart...  I haven't been getting that as much on my unit, but it may be the wood I'm splitting as much as the wedge shappe.

I'd expect a straight triangular wedge to give me even less trouble on a 30 ton unit.  However I would tend to say that at  this point that aspect of the machine is way down on my list of "things to fix"

============

LWC - I would agree in general about your method of checking the fluid level, however it won't work as well on the HF tank because of the way the filler is positioned.  The HF filler is on the side of the tank, near the top, and is both fairly small and angled so that it would be very difficult to get a look into the tank to see the level.

=============

What  is starting to concern me a right now is that I'm seeing a slow hydraulic fluid drip from the rear end of the spllitter frame directly under the tank - I sure hope this doesn't mean I have a tank leak!  However the only plumbing connection in that area is the suction hose, and that looks OK...  I did spill a littlle bit when filling the machine, and that may have gotten between the tank and the frame so that it's now leaking out, but it seems like more fluid than seems likely for that explanation.  I certainly haven't bounced the machine arouund at all, it has had the beam up and down a few dozen times if that, and it has probably been rolled about 50 feet total, i.e. in and out of the garage to the driveway a few times, pushed by hand, not even the lawn tractor...

Gooserider


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## Funk Brother

Lobsta and Goose - sorry it's taken me  a while to get back to you; I was out of town and not webbing. Thanks for your input; I like tossing this kind of stuff around.  Lobsta, sounds like a nice conversion. I'm probably visualizing your setup properly, but it would be great to see a picture of it if you have the chance. Goose, yeah, I think we are all on the same page, and it makes me wonder why Speeco and HF used the 2 step wedge, when they might have been better off with something simpler. There must be a reason.


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## Gooserider

Another potential issue that may show up for some people with this type of splitter is the tow vehicle hitch height...  The fact that HF puts the hitch coupler on the beam is nice for storage, but does leave the hitch height very high.  For me this is no problem, as I just move the unit around the yard by hand, and haven't even bothered to install the coupler on it (figure it makes it less of a theft target that way) but I could see how it might be a problem for some tow vehicles...  

The trailer wheels are very small, and even with the axle mounted to the underside of the engine platform still leaves the engine sticking out ahead of the axle and very low to the ground.  If the tow vehicle has a low hitch (like a car, or a truck w/ a dropdown ball on a class 1 hitch) then I'd be worried about the clearance between the front of the engine and the road.  If the tow vehicle has a high hitch (a pickup w/ a step bumper mounted ball for instance) then it would be less of a problem....

Gooserider


----------



## Catskill

I could see how the towing could be an issue for some. Here's a pic of mine behind my ATV. In my situation I have to take my splitter on some trail where it isn't always perfectly smooth (to say the least). Clearence was definatelly a consideration for me.


----------



## Gooserider

Catskill said:
			
		

> I could see how the towing could be an issue for some. Here's a pic of mine behind my ATV. In my situation I have to take my splitter on some trail where it isn't always perfectly smooth (to say the least). Clearence was definatelly a consideration for me.



Exactly...  Picture the hitch being on the bottom edge of the beam instead of on the (non-existant) trailer tongue - this would tilt the splitter downhill, and leave less clearance under the engine platform, which looks to be about the same height as yours - just above the axle on the tires.  I'd be worried about high spots in that condition, or want a hitch that was mounted much higher - say on the luggage rack...

Gooserider


----------



## stoweski

Hi!

I have the 27 ton model with a Briggs engine. Bought it three years ago from HF. 

Although I won't go as in-depth as Goose I'll post a few issues I've had with it over the past few years, and roughly 20 cord of wood...

Leaks. Yep, there are a lot. Although with a little teflon tape I've managed to fix most of them. I also had a leak with the filter but that was taken care of when I removed and cleaned the gasket, oiled it, and reinstalled it. 

Reservoir. Yep, another leak. I'm guessing because of the 'play' where the beam attaches to the base it may have twisted the reservoir tank a bit while being towed and therefore started breaking at the welds. I had it fixed this year. Won't be towing it much anymore since I am now settled down. 

Pins a pain??!! Yep, darn right! I've been looking for longer pins but have been unsuccessful so far. 


My model doesn't have a hydraulic fluid dipstick. The one thing I hate about this splitter is that I have absolutely NO idea how much fluid is in the reservoir! I've been using a flashlight to see if I can shine it through the hole and see if I can see the top of the fluid. It's an absolute pain. They must have realized this and started putting the dipstick in to help people. Go figure. 

My solution to the flexible funnel was to buy a piece of elbowed threaded pipe. It fits perfectly and still allows for the breather to function properly. The problem with the breather? After a while the o-ring stretches out and falls back over the breather. 

Overall it's a decent setup. I think I used a coupon and found it on sale for around $700 at the time. I believe their original price was $999. I looked at the $2k splitters but figured that once I got the splitter I'll simply wait for parts to break beyond repair and then replace the broken parts with better quality parts. For the cost it can't be beat! Now it's time for a new chainsaw. 

Keith


----------



## Gooserider

Thanks for the longer term report Stoweski, it's good to have an idea what to expect...

I figure about the same as you did on the value side...  Really most of the parts are pretty standard across all splitters, so if something breaks I'll worry about fixing it then, in the meantime I can get a lot done with the money I've saved...

At this point, I've probably done between one and two full cords, and have finally gotten my woodsheds completely filled (not as bad as it sounds, nearly all my wood was cut to rounds length since spring or earlier and was stacked outside, uncovered all summer - and I won't get into the most recently split stuff until late spring next year, if at all.  Out of the 7.5 cords in my sheds, the first 5 has been cut and split for at least 18 months, and under cover for at least the last 9...) I'm now into rebuilding my overflow / next years wood piles

The only leak I haven't gotten stopped is the control valve, which appears to be leaking out the end opposite the operating lever - I'll probably call HF and get them to send me a new valve under warranty, and while I'm changing it, see about repositioning the cylinder / valve / hoses to get the valve in a more comfortable place to operate the unit from.  

I almost always operate vertical (never actually used this machine horizontal...) and sitting on my bucket in front of the piston, the lever is on the right sticking out sideways - reachable, but a bit awkward.  On my friend's machine, the lever is on the left side of the cylinder, and sticks straight out - MUCH more comfortable to work with...

Gooserider


----------



## keen427

Looks like they discontinued the 30 ton splitter with the Robin engine and replaced it with a Loncin Engine. Looks like the same splitter but a different engine. Anyone know if that brand engine is any good?


----------



## Gooserider

keen427 said:
			
		

> Looks like they discontinued the 30 ton splitter with the Robin engine and replaced it with a Loncin Engine. Looks like the same splitter but a different engine. Anyone know if that brand engine is any good?



I don't know what is going on with HF now - I just checked their site, and while they showed the 30 ton Robin engine H/V unit I got on the home page for $1599, the link took me to the horizontal only 30 ton w/ log lift.  The only H/V model I saw was the 22 ton version of my unit - same chassis, smaller engine, pump and cylinder, but still a good machine - I would expect pretty much everything that's been said about mine to apply to the smaller unit, with the obvious difference for the power...  However in reality, 30 tons is somewhat overkill, I'd be surprised if there was much that the 30 would handle that the 22 couldn't... (I certainly have had almost no trouble with my friend's 22 ton MTD other than occasionally needing to reposition a gnarly round)  I didn't see the variant that you mention of the 30ton w/ a different engine.

As to the engine, I don't recognize that brand at all - however I've heard there are now several factories in China that are making clones of the Honda engine designs (The Subaru / Robin engine is one of those clones, and is very solid) how good they are is an open question.  The Honda engine design is great, the question is how good are the copies?

Gooserider


----------



## keen427

Gooserider, go to HF home page and click on new items the new splitter is there. Do you have to run your splitter at full trottel went you are splitting or can you run it slower?


----------



## Gooserider

keen427 said:
			
		

> Gooserider, go to HF home page and click on new items the new splitter is there. Do you have to run your splitter at full trottel went you are splitting or can you run it slower?



Ahh...  Found it, looked at the pictures, skimmed through the manual...  Looks like same machine with a slightly different engine (Though one of the manual pictures shows a Robin engine) However I didn't see a spec for either the cylinder size or the pump rating.  The engine is definitely one of the Honda clones so assuming the quality is OK, it should be pretty good.  One big difference I noticed is that my manual had virtually nothing on the engine, but the machine came with the manufacturers manual, which was a huge multi-language novel...  Given that the manual for this version has parts diagrams and maintainance I suspect it may have less info from the engine maker.

As to operation, I've found that I run about 1/3 - 1/2 throttle - just fast enough to keep the engine from stalling when the pump kicks into high pressure mode.

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

After doing some more splitting, - I'd guess I'm now up to about two full cords through the machine, I've gotten most of the leaks sorted out.  The filter was just a matter of getting it tight enough, and I had to crank down some more on some of the hose clamps.  The only leak that's still a problem is the end of the valve opposite where the handle attaches - There is a plug in the bore where the operating piston slides in, that is secured by a snap ring; the plug appears to be leaking a fairly steady drip when the machine gets hot.

I called HF earlier this week and they are sending me a new valve...  When I get it, I may take a trip to the local hydraulic shop and see if I can get the fittings I will need to rotate the cylinder 180* and thus be able to relocate the valve so the operating lever sticks straight out on the left side of the cylinder instead of sideways on the right - this will fix my biggest grip with the ergonomics of operating the unit.

Gooserider


----------



## Timm40

Gooserider said:
			
		

> keen427 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they discontinued the 30 ton splitter with the Robin engine and replaced it with a Loncin Engine. Looks like the same splitter but a different engine. Anyone know if that brand engine is any good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what is going on with HF now - I just checked their site, and while they showed the 30 ton Robin engine H/V unit I got on the home page for $1599, the link took me to the horizontal only 30 ton w/ log lift.  The only H/V model I saw was the 22 ton version of my unit - same chassis, smaller engine, pump and cylinder, but still a good machine - I would expect pretty much everything that's been said about mine to apply to the smaller unit, with the obvious difference for the power...  However in reality, 30 tons is somewhat overkill, I'd be surprised if there was much that the 30 would handle that the 22 couldn't... (I certainly have had almost no trouble with my friend's 22 ton MTD other than occasionally needing to reposition a gnarly round)  I didn't see the variant that you mention of the 30ton w/ a different engine.
> 
> As to the engine, I don't recognize that brand at all - however I've heard there are now several factories in China that are making clones of the Honda engine designs (The Subaru / Robin engine is one of those clones, and is very solid) how good they are is an open question.  The Honda engine design is great, the question is how good are the copies?
> 
> Gooserider
Click to expand...


I'm glad I got my 30 ton in September when I did for 1258.00 and some change. So far, I haven't found anything that will stop it......even at 1/3 throttle. Super quiet engine....have only found good reviews of the Robin Subaru engine.


----------



## kevin j

Robin suburu have been around a long time, many industrial engines and sizes. I don't know that particular engine, but R/S are a good name.

The clones are simply that: chinese knockoffs.   china was licensing the honda 90 and 50 engines and scooters/cycles/mopeds in the 1960's and onward. at some pont when they had the machinery and knowledge and assistance freom honda that they needed, they simply refused to pay the license and kept on copying and pirating.... sounds familiar....
 So the basic design is a clone. The metallurgy and machining is unknown, and the prices are 1/3 to 1/2 of honda.


----------



## Gooserider

I've been told that the Robin-Subaru EX-27 engine on my is a copy / clone of the corresponding Honda, ditto for the other engines in that series (I know the manuals from the website cover several different sizes) with the copy being close enough that the internal parts are interchangeable.  I don't know who got the design from who, or what the licensing arrangements are (and I don't care all that much   :blank: )  All I know is that it seems to be a great engine, very quiet, powerful, etc.  

I do wear ear protection while using it, but it's marginal how much I really need it.  I tend to wear my "ears" any time I'm using an engine powered device, and even for most electric tools just on general principles...  I do know that lots of time with my muffs on, I can still hear the wood cracking over the engine...  One of the things I thought was kind of cool is the way that the engine was made with a rotating exhaust outlet so that you can point the exhaust in a direction that minimizes the fumes in the operators face.  HF did kind of blow it on this - they had the outlet pointed down and back, in the general direction of the operator if using the machine while sitting down in vertical mode.  I took the outlet off (three sheet metal screws) and re-posititioned it to be down and forward - this might get the guy pulling the rope and controlling the engine throttle, but the exposure time in that location is minimal...

I don't know what the quality of the knockoff copies might be, I'll admit that I might be a bit nervous about them, however the word from the "Red Menace" guys (riders of the Russian and Chinese semi-military bikes, which are mult-generation copies of the WWII vintage Wermacht BMW bikes) is that the quality on the Chinese versions has gotten much better in the last few years.

Gooserider


----------



## _CY_

seems the most common complaint on HB splitters are hydraulics leaks on the Ram. loads of feedback concerning HB owners on AS. some happy.... some not so happy. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=78722

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=74412&highlight=harbor+freight



			
				Gooserider said:
			
		

> T
> 
> The only leak I haven't gotten stopped is the control valve, which appears to be leaking out the end opposite the operating lever - I'll probably call HF and get them to send me a new valve under warranty, and while I'm changing it, see about repositioning the cylinder / valve / hoses to get the valve in a more comfortable place to operate the unit from.
> 
> Gooserider


----------



## MuckSavage

I guess I'm pretty lucky. The only leak I've encountered in 4 years with my HF/27ton/8Hp Briggs is at the filter. I did complain about the vent hole. I put a threaded PVC nipple in the fill hole, glued a 45 degree fitting to it, then hole clamped an old K&N;valve cover breather to that. Hey, I got some chrome "bling" on my splitter! I like the dipstick idea though.

Has anyone found a source for the Hydraulic Filter? Mine has # 056-115-561G      070-5AF.  Can someone cross reference or decipher the #?


----------



## NNYorker

Try www.fram.com  --go to parts catalog--enter your number for a cross reference.


----------



## Gooserider

I haven't deciphered the number, but I would imagine that if you were to haul the filter into a decent hydraulics shop they'd be able to find one that matches it...  

The other option, which I've heard is fairly cheap, would be to replace the filter housing...  According to at least one site I've read that changing filters / fluid by hours of operation (difficult to track in any case) or other formulas is less than optimum, and instead one should use a filter housing that has a monitor to show when the filter is clogged - supposedly they have a pop-up indicator that shows when the pressure drop accross the filter reaches a level that indicates the filter is dirty...  I haven't found one yet, but haven't really started to search - I figure my machine is new enough that I'm not worried yet, wait to the end of the season...

Gooserider


----------



## MuckSavage

I get what you're saying. The air filter on my motorhome has an indicator like that.


----------



## Gooserider

More updates...  I've probably gotten another cord through the machine, and overall it's doing pretty well.  HF sent me a replacement valve for the leaking one I mentioned a while back, and I just got around to installing it today, haven't tested it yet.

I am starting to get very slight leakage on the cylinder - not really enough to notice while working, but enough to drip on the beam when I have the machine sitting in the garage.  When I short cycle the cylinder, I get little "rings" of fluid around the piston, which run down into the little cup on the wedge that the piston end goes into.  The cup fills up, then dumps onto the beam when I finish splitting and go horizontal to roll it back into the garage...  Just enough to be messy.

Given that the machine is still under warranty, I'm going to call up and complain about it, though it isn't so bad that if I had to shell out the cash I'd get the cylinder rebuilt (yet...)

That said, I did a bunch of work on the machine today with the intent of fixing some of the annoying features - It will cost me more than I'd planned, but I'm thinking it will give me a much nicer working environment.  I've had to make two trips to the hydraulic shop, and one to the hardware store so far, probably will need one more of each...

Project aims - 

1. Change the leaking valve - since I'm doing that, reposition so that instead of the handle sticking out sideways to the right, have the valve to the left of the cylinder with the handle sticking out to the rear (in vertical mode, straight up in horizontal)

2. Replace the rather hokey filler / breather plug setup with a better moisture proof breather cap.

Process - 

1. Attempt to power off cycle the cylinder to get as much fluid out of it and back into the tank as possible so as to minimize spills - NOT easy, but managed about 2/3 cycle, found fluid in cylinder more than space in tank.
Disconnected some lines, spilled fluid on garage floor (thank goodness for that bag of cheap kitty litter - makes good oil dry...)  Detach cylinder from splitter, turn 1/2 turn to put valve on top...  (I'm an optimist, some of this will keep me from spilling...)

2. Take valve off - discover that it's a good thing I bought (on sale) the HF jumbo adjustable wrench set - apparently the fittings were put on by a Sumo wrestler in training, I NEEDED the 24" adjustable to get them loose...

3. First trip to the hydraulic shop - get a 90* high pressure elbow to replace the straight fitting going into the retract side, breather cap.

4. Also go to hardware store, get 2" long 3/4" NPT pipe nipple and 45* elbow to extend filler pipe on tank and make outlet vertical (almost)

5. Figure out that new valve must be installed in exactly the right position and sequence on elbow or it won't clear cylinder when screwing it on.  Finally get valve on cylinder w/ the cylinder extend line hooked up (Note, all pipe thread connections made by putting on layer of RectorSeal #5 pipe dope, teflon tape, and second layer of RectorSeal - This is the way our plumber does it, and says he doesn't get leak call backs...)

6. Rotate cylinder into desired position, put in pin.

7. Discover both pressure and return lines are now to short, and would go into valve in bad direction.

8. Second trip to hydraulic shop, catch them just as they are closing (oops...) get a bunch of swivel fittings for pressure side (Damn those high pressure fittings are pricey.....) and a 45" street elbow and straight hose barb for the return line.

9. Find return line port is to close to cylinder to screw in elbow, have to disconnect extension line, swivel valve to get room to put in 45* elbow, then reconnect things.  Get return line connected, discover still barely long enough in vertical mode.  Gain a little slack by turning inlet elbow for filter.

10. Assemble fittings for high pressure line, get it connected.

11. Decide that while lines now reach, they are awfully tight, need to make another trip to hardware store and hydraulic shop for additional fittings.  (Reposition filter in return line, add a "TEE" and pressure guage in pressure line, should give me a couple inches extra for each.)...

Next up, better pins for beam and making early travel stops for the cylinder (make short stroking easier)

Gooserider
(will have pictures soon - need to DL camera)


----------



## _CY_

ahhhhh... the infamous HB cylinder leak issue strikes again. seems to be a common complaint on HB splitters. sure hope you get all your hydraulic issues worked out, while splitter is still under warranty. 



			
				Gooserider said:
			
		

> I am starting to get very slight leakage on the cylinder - not really enough to notice while working, but enough to drip on the beam when I have the machine sitting in the garage.  When I short cycle the cylinder, I get little "rings" of fluid around the piston, which run down into the little cup on the wedge that the piston end goes into.  The cup fills up, then dumps onto the beam when I finish splitting and go horizontal to roll it back into the garage...  Just enough to be messy.
> 
> Given that the machine is still under warranty, I'm going to call up and complain about it, though it isn't so bad that if I had to shell out the cash I'd get the cylinder rebuilt (yet...)


----------



## Roxburyeric

Thanks for this great post as it has been very helpful in my consideration of purchasing a splitter. Here is what I have learned - Please don't take this the wrong way. Given the amount of travel time, work time, assembly time, upgrade costs, gas, time dealing with HF and down time from making the fixes and upgrades, it seems very clear to me that you could have bought a Timberwolf, Iron & Oak or other higher end unit from the start and most likely you would not have had to deal with all the issues you have described to us and you probably would have spent the same amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong and I do realize that some of your work wasn't needed - just wanted to make the unit better. Thanks


----------



## _CY_

without question if you have the $$$, go with high end splitters like Timberwolf, Iron & Oak, American, etc. expect to pay 2x-3x more $$$, but you will get American made quality product. 

max bang for the $$$ belongs to speeco/TSC 22 ton or 35 ton splitters. bent foot issues on 35ton units made two years ago (speeco fixed including labor). loads of great feedback on speeco units. if you buy on sale... expect to pay 15- 20% or so higher than HB, but includes all fluids ready to run. 

35ton speeco for 2 years now, very pleased with splitter's performance. but now want to upgrade to Timberwolf TW-5. notice I said "want" not need... 35 ton speeco has busted the knarly's Oaks, monster rounds. shears right through if crotch will not budge. only negative has been the super slow 15 second cycle times.  

TW-5 at close to $8K new is way over my budget... waiting until I find a deal on a nice used one close by. seems all the deals for used high end splitters pop up on the east coast....



			
				Roxburyeric said:
			
		

> Thanks for this great post as it has been very helpful in my consideration of purchasing a splitter. Here is what I have learned - Please don't take this the wrong way. Given the amount of travel time, work time, assembly time, upgrade costs, gas, time dealing with HF and down time from making the fixes and upgrades, it seems very clear to me that you could have bought a Timberwolf, Iron & Oak or other higher end unit from the start and most likely you would not have had to deal with all the issues you have described to us and you probably would have spent the same amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong and I do realize that some of your work wasn't needed - just wanted to make the unit better. Thanks


----------



## Gooserider

Roxburyeric said:
			
		

> Thanks for this great post as it has been very helpful in my consideration of purchasing a splitter. Here is what I have learned - Please don't take this the wrong way. Given the amount of travel time, work time, assembly time, upgrade costs, gas, time dealing with HF and down time from making the fixes and upgrades, it seems very clear to me that you could have bought a Timberwolf, Iron & Oak or other higher end unit from the start and most likely you would not have had to deal with all the issues you have described to us and you probably would have spent the same amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong and I do realize that some of your work wasn't needed - just wanted to make the unit better. Thanks



ABSOLUTELY WRONG  I've had less than one day of down-time, by the time I am finished with the current mods, it will be around two.  These days were *chosen* deliberately because the weather outside was miserable and I wouldn't have been splitting anyway, thus no "real" downtime at all...

I had some leaks at first, most of which were easy enough to fix, and none of which were major.  Even the valve (and now piston) leaks were minor enough that if the unit wasn't under warranty, I probably would have ignored them....

If I were just swapping out the valve (sent to me at no charge by HF, with no need to return the original - I may end up with a near complete set of spares for the hydraulics out of the deal) it would have been an hour or so of work.  The mods I'm making are for my comfort, and can't really be charged against the machine for the most part, as they are in the same nature as hopping up a perfectly fine performing car - making it better than the original, not that the original was defective...

Even with the cost of the mods (which again shouldn't be charged against HF) I still am WAY under the cost of a comparable TSC unit, which I would have had to drive to pick up, instead of having it unloaded on my doorstep...  (forget about the cost of an Iron Oak, or Timberwolf)  If I'd bought one of the high-end units, I probably would STILL be making some of the mods I'm making today, which would still be costing me comparable amounts...

This splitter is not a purchase that I'm regretting.

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

Did some more fiddling with the splitter today, started off with a shopping trip - Turns out I misread the sign on the Hydraulic shop, closed today...  :cry:  So the high pressure line will have to wait until Monday or later.

But I was able to get the return line fittings I needed at the local hardware store, and have re-positioned the return line filter, which gives the line just the perfect amount of slack.

The other big project was to start making an easier to use locking pin for holding the beam in the up or down positions.  The current pin is short enough that it's a bit of a struggle to get in and out of the holes.  It's a 14mm nominal diameter, 0.55", so it's a little to sloppy for a 1/2" bolt.  However I own a Smithy Mill/Lathe machine (a purchase I DO regret, but that's another story) that allows me to modify other parts as needed...

I started by picking up a 10" long, 5/8" diameter bolt, and chucking it in the lathe - then turning down a good length of it to about the same diameter as the original pin.  I really should have used a 3/4" bolt, as I've still got a few signs of the threads showing, but it isn't bad.  I put a bit more of a point on the end to make it easier to line up.  Tommorrow (or sometime soon) I will braize a washer at the shoulder where I stopped turning to provide a stop, and drill holes for the hairpin clip and a "T" handle.

I didn't take any pictures of todays work, but I did download the camera and got some shots of yesterdays efforts....

There are two shots of the old valve, showing the original position (without the high pressure and return hoses, which were sort of in the way) and the original connections to the cylinder, and the top cylinder connection.

I decided that it would be easiest to work on the cylinder if I was able to get it so the ports were facing up, and I found that it was possible to lock it in place quite neatly by using the pin and a screwdriver to lock it into the mount in a non-standard position...

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

More photos - The valve removed from the cylinder, also a look at the log ejector while it's disconnected.

I separated the wedge and piston, as I didn't want to be turning the piston inside the cylinder w/o a reason (Those are linear motion seals, not rotary seals)

The connection on the new valve - notice the right angle fitting on the retract side...  This was a real challenge to get on due to interference between the valve and cylinder.  You have to put the fitting on the valve first, and turn it to just the right position so that you can screw the valve plus fitting onto the cylinder.  Even so, I had to do some fun w/ elbows to get the return line fitting into place.

I also needed to make an additional bend and extend the plumbing on the HP line - this is a bit of a hack, and a darned expensive one, as those HP fittings cost a lot more than regular schedule 40 stuff.  But it almost works... (I need about 1-2 more inches - will get that by adding a "TEE" and pressure guage at the pump end.)

You can also see the 45* elbow I needed to put on the low pressure return line to clear the cylinder.

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

Finally, so you see the point of the entire exercise - the new valve is installed in the new position, some shots also show the new breather cap - though I need to do some more plumbing on this as it currently is blocking the lock pin holes.

Notice how the valve operating handle now sticks straight up (or back when in vertical mode) and is on the other side of the cylinder - much the way I prefer to work it.


----------



## Gooserider

In this phase of improvements, I have just one or two other things I'd really like to fix.  The cylinder on this machine has a 24" stroke, and is set up so that I have an effective 25" maximum log length...  Since my target length is 18", with a maximum allowed length of 20", if I allow the auto-return detent to take the cylinder all the way up, I have to wait for about 5" of un-needed travel on every stroke - which takes a while (3-4 seconds).  Doesn't sound like much but it adds up.  I'd like it if the detent would kick out at around 20" or so, giving me two inches to get the log into position with, and cutting down on the wasted travel.  At the same time I get the occasional over length log, which I'd rather go ahead and split while it's in my hands, and trim the rejects later...  So I want something fast to switch back and forth.

I've seen mention the cylinder travel limiting collars that some folks have used, but those seem to me like they'd take to long to take on and off,  plus I'm paranoid about damaging the chrome on the piston.

However there may be a very easy way to do it - The bottom cylinder support / log ejector on the HF splitter is a pretty substantial peice, and it sticks out about 3" further than the cylinder.  (the wedge comes out to the end of it) If I were to drill a series of paired holes in the ejector and stick a pin (made from a 1/2" bolt) through them, the top side of the wedge would hit the bolt and trip the detent to off at a more suitable position.  The only question is whether the upstroke on the cylinder is stronger than a 1/2" bolt...  - I might need to play with the detent a bit to lighten it up appropriately.

If it works, this would be a simple, easy, and quickly installed / removed way of putting in an early travel stop - and by doing a series of holes, one that could be adjusted if needed.

Has anyone ever tried doing this, and if so, how well did it work?



The othe related trick is something that my friend did on his splitter that can be handy...  He marked the beam for measuring splits - by putting a few small drill "dimples" in the beam at critical intervals, you get a quick and crude measuring tool to see how long your splits are.  It doesn't measurably weaken the beam, but can be real handy if you want to sort your splits by length...

Gooserider


----------



## _CY_

yikes ... those fittings looks expensive!


----------



## Gooserider

_CY_ said:
			
		

> yikes ... those fittings looks expensive!



Yup, try about $70 dollars worth... :gulp:

Gooserider


----------



## keen427

After a few months of looking at and seeing demo different splitters I ended up purchasing the same 30 ton unit as Gooserider about 3 weeks ago from the local HF retail store largely based on Gooseriders review. I was lucky also that my local store had just received one for another customer so I was able to physically see it before purchasing it. I have split about 2 cords of wood through the unit and am very pleased with its performance. I have so far no leaks and have not had to run this machine while splitting with the throttle open more than a third. It is very quit and splits with ease the various hard and soft woods that I split ranging from 6" to approx 2'in diameter. The build and quality of the unit is on par with the splitters at TSC and Home Depo, Sears and Lowes (Troy Built, Yardman, Cub Cadet). The deal clincher was I had a 15% off coupon which brought the unit price down to approx 1100 dollars. The only negatives I have found with the machine is the pin that holds the unit in the hor./vert position that's a bit of a chore to line up and ram control valve in the horz. position is a bit awkward but in the vertical position its fine. The ability to split in both the vert./horz. positions is great I split the smaller wood in the horz and the wood that's to heavy in the vert. The tow tongue has its plus and minuses its high position design is a little to high when towing the unit with my ATV and makes the unit tilt close to the ground. I towed the unit behind my pickup which has a higher hitch which makes the unit sit in a very nice level position and I towed it for about a 60 mile round trip and it towed very nicely. Storing the unit in the vert. position is nice it takes up very little room in my barn. Overall I am very pleased with the unit and my thanks to Gooserider and the other forum members who have taken the time to write about different splitters whether market or custom built.


----------



## _CY_

be really careful towing any splitter with small wheels and small wheelbase. 

they can flip over while towing, if you hit a large enough pot hole/bump... causing great damage, generally destroying splitter. 

don't think it can't happen to you, as this has happened to several people towing small splitters. 
mine tows great at highway speeds, but I know better. 



			
				keen427 said:
			
		

> I towed the unit behind my pickup which has a higher hitch which makes the unit sit in a very nice level position and I towed it for about a 60 mile round trip and it towed very nicely.


----------



## carbon neutral

I have had the 22ton version for a couple 3 years now and have had no problems with the exception of the coupling backing out.  I reinstalled using locktite on the threads for the set scew.  I did have the same problems with wood slipping off of the back plate like you said.  I resolved that by drilliling and tapping the end plate then installing a bolt in that hole and cutting off the head of the bolt.  I didn't use a very large bolt as it is only under compression.  I haven't found anything it cannot split, mostly I split white oak and even the knotiest of wood will only slow it down to the point where it is shearing the wood.  I made a 4 way slip on for the wedge which really works well.  I was surprised that the 22ton would be able to drive that wedge as well as it does.  I would really recommend you guys make 4way wedges if you have the chance as it really speeds up the proccess.


----------



## Gooserider

I agree, the little piece on the foot right now doesn't do a great job of holding angled or pointy rounds, so it does have a bit more of a tendency to kick out than I'd like.  I'm thinking in terms of taking care of that next time I fire up my MIG welder - just haven't decided what sort of setup I'll add.  (One thought is to make my initials or some sort of logo, which would have the effect of "branding" my splits - this could be a definite plus in the way of making evidence if anyone ever swipes your wood...)

Gooserider


----------



## Bigg_Redd

Gooserider said:
			
		

> I agree, the little piece on the foot right now doesn't do a great job of holding angled or pointy rounds, so it does have a bit more of a tendency to kick out than I'd like.  I'm thinking in terms of taking care of that next time I fire up my MIG welder - just haven't decided what sort of setup I'll add.  (One thought is to make my initials or some sort of logo, which would have the effect of "branding" my splits - t*his could be a definite plus in the way of making evidence if anyone ever swipes your wood..*.)
> 
> Gooserider



Wood stealing a big problem there in Taxachussetts?


----------



## Gooserider

Bigg_Redd said:
			
		

> Gooserider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, the little piece on the foot right now doesn't do a great job of holding angled or pointy rounds, so it does have a bit more of a tendency to kick out than I'd like.  I'm thinking in terms of taking care of that next time I fire up my MIG welder - just haven't decided what sort of setup I'll add.  (One thought is to make my initials or some sort of logo, which would have the effect of "branding" my splits - t*his could be a definite plus in the way of making evidence if anyone ever swipes your wood..*.)
> 
> Gooserider
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wood stealing a big problem there in Taxachussetts?
Click to expand...


Hasn't been, but there are several threads on here if you look - seems to be a fair number of incedents every year, might be more this year depending on how much change Obama leaves us....  I probably wouldn't bother to mod a splitter just to brand my wood, but I figure that if you ARE doing it anyway, why not make it unique?

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

Pictures of todays splitter work - I am pretty much finished with this phase of the project.  Eventually I want to turn the engine around so that it faces the other way (and blows the cooling air away from me), but that will be a project for another time, AFTER I get the current batch of wood finished.

As I mentioned earlier, I was working on a replacement for that pin that locks the splitter into the horizontal or vertical position...  I've gotten it almost done, except needing to weld or braze the stop washer and handle in place...  It started out in life as a 10" long, 5/8" bolt - I should have used a 3/4" bolt as I had partial threads left after turning, but this will work...  I turned one end down to make it the same diameter as the original pin, but gave it a bit of extra length (make it easier to get the clip in)  I turned the head down on the other end, and cross drilled it for the clip and a 1/4" bolt that I had in my scrap bucket, and was just the right size to be a handle.


I also got the hydraulic filter relocated on the low pressure side, and added a high pressure "T" and a 3,000psi pressure guage on the high pressure line - this got me the needed slack in the lines after doing the earlier repositioning of the cylinder and valve.


----------



## Gooserider

Another shot of the guage...

I also added beam markings to give me a way to measure splits as I make them - 2" intervals from 12" to 22".  The marking holes were made with a 1/2" drill, going just deep enough that the full diameter was starting to cut, and then I used a lettering set I got years ago (another HF special, purchased at 50% off) to mark the distances.  This is crude, but IMHO a useful way of doing QA as you go along - reject the over-length splits before they make it into the wood pile.

Another project I finished today was my "up-stop" modification of the log ejector so that I get a shorter cycle.  I put in three sets of holes, one inch apart vertically and staggered to keep everything strong....  Putting a 1/2" bolt through the holes should restrict the upwards travel enough to kick out the valve detent, giving me a short stroke.  With the pin, I should have no trouble quickly changing from full stroke to short stroke mode.


----------



## Gooserider

And a few other shots showing various parts of the fixes...


----------



## Gooserider

And....


----------



## Gooserider

Followup...  Did some more splitting today with the improved splitter - 

The new position on the valve is a BIG help, but the handle was still a bit high for a comfortable reach.  The tab on the handle that actuall connects between the pivot and the valve spool is at a slight angle, with the lever pointing upwards as installed.  It was a simple matter to pull out the two pivot pins and flip the lever over so that it angled down instead - this dropped the height of the handle knob by about 4" or so, and the result is just about perfect.  (Sorry no pictures)

The split length markings aren't essential, but are a nice touch - I found them highly visible and easy to read while using the splitter.  One thing I hadn't planned on, but it turned out they were very nice for was when making multiple splits from a single log, I could note the length and then very consistently return the wedge to the same height for a shorter cycle on the splits after the first.

The pressure guage is also kind of fun, though again not an essential.  It's a 3,000PSI guage, per the recomendation of the guy at the hydraulic shop.  I notice that the guage shows zero when the lever is in neutral, and 1-200PSI when the wedge is going up or down w/ no load.  The upstroke detent kicks out around 6-700PSI, which also appears to be about the pressure where it starts kicking into high pressure mode.  I didn't get any really gnarly chunks today, but it seemed most of what I was splitting was going at between 100 and 300PSI, IOW, not much more than it took to move the wedge!  The only time I was able to get a higher pressure was when I was experimenting and holding the valve at the end of a stroke, at which point it would kick into low range and rapidly go past the end of the guage - I think I need to play with the relief setting!

OTOH, the up-stop limiter experiment was a TOTAL failure - The first time I tried it, the wedge didn't slow down, and I didn't even see a twitch on the pressure guage, the bolt was just totally ignored by the wedge - anybody want a nice 1/2" diameter steel pretzel?


----------



## Funk Brother

Gooserider said:
			
		

> Followup...  Did some more splitting today with the improved splitter -
> 
> the up-stop limiter experiment was a TOTAL failure - The first time I tried it, the wedge didn't slow down, and I didn't even see a twitch on the pressure guage, the bolt was just totally ignored by the wedge - anybody want a nice 1/2" diameter steel pretzel?



Goose - that one gave me a good laugh - I'd read your plan to use the bolt as a limiter and assumed it would work fine - guess I was wrong too! Anyway, thanks for keeping up posted on your splitter modifications and improvements . I've done some (non-elective) work on my Speeco too, intend to post when I have time to put a report together with pics.


----------



## Gooserider

I think I need to play with the settings on the valve, as they seem to be set way to high for both the over-pressure relief and the upstroke detent kickout.

While I was splitting today I was watching the pressure guage fairly closely, and most wood split at between 300 and 500 pounds pressure, if it took that much, a lot of stuff I never even saw the guage move...

Lets see, I have a 5" cylinder, so my piston is 19.6 square inches....  Multiplying that out, If I have X pressure at the guage, I have Y tons at the wedge...

PSI    Tons
 100    0.98
 200    1.96
 300    2.94
 400    3.92 = about what a small electric does
 500    4.90
 750    7.35 = about what a large electric does
1000   9.80 
1250  12.25
1500  14.70
1750  17.15
2000  19.60 - slightly more than a 20 ton at 3,000PSI
2250  22.05
2500  24.50 - more than the max on a 4.5" cylinder
2750  26.95
3000  29.40 - My theoretical maximum at 3,000 PSI

I think the most I saw on the guage today while splitting was about 1500psi, in a very gnarly crotch that was fighting most of the way through it.

However the kickout pressure on the upstroke was well over 1,000psi and I think I saw it spike to over 2,000psi once...  Certainly the engine seems to go into more "grunt mode" over tripping the detent than it does over all but the worst of gnarly logs.

Likewise, I haven't managed to stop the wedge mid travel yet, but if I hold the lever engaged at either end of the stroke, I rapidly go over 3,000psi - not sure how far over as it is only a 3,000psi guage and I stop before I over-range it...

I need to look up the manual on that valve for how the adjustments work and see if I can tone it down a bit.

I'm also getting a little bit of leakage with the new valve, but this time it appears to be coming from that hex cap next to the operating spool.  It's also much less volume than the other valve, I might just need to tighten something up.

Gooserider


----------



## Gooserider

Bringing this thread back up to keep all my HF splitter notes in the same place.  I got the following as a PM, and since it's stuff that could be of interest to others, I thought I should reply to it here, so as to avoid repeats of the same questions....



> cityevader
> Subject:    HF splitter
> Date:    2009-01-03 13:38
> Recipients:    <Gooserider>
> 
> Hello, I’ve got the same splitter, you may remember my “lengthy review” at arboristsite.com?



I think so, I know I read a bunch of reviews on both sites before getting my splitter.



> I’m curious about a couple things. How did you rotate your cylinder only 90*? Is it that the ram rear pin no longer bearing the direct load, i.e. the end plate resting against the two vertical mounts? I was going to flip it 180 so I’d stand on the other side of the machine to avoid standing over the engine, but having the valve on top would be better. I actually want to flip the valve itself 180 so that the lever is even closer to the workpiece...of course, that’ll require flipping the lever as well, and some bracketry to hold the valve.



That was a bit of a tricky thing - the CYLINDER is rotated 180*, and attaches the same way it did originally, but I put a 90* elbow between the cylinder and the valve, so that the VALVE is only rotated 90*, and put on the opposite side of the cylinder...  I imagine that if you wanted to keep the valve on the same side as original, you could put the 90* fitting in without rotating the cylinder.  The trickiest part was actually doing the assembly, as the clearances are tight, you have to put the 90* fitting on the valve and tighten it to just the right position in order to get the valve to clear the cylinder when screwing the fitting into the cylinder.  

It would be hard to flip the valve as the ports would interfere with each other, and it would also cause the lever to move opposite to the cylinder - I'd keep the valve orientation and possibly make a longer handle with some bends to put it where you want.

At any rate, I think it would be hard to get the valve into a position other than the way it came, or the way I have it now,  without needing a LOT of additional fittings, and replacing the top (extend) high pressure line.  I ended up getting a bunch of extra (expensive) high pressure fittings to make the stock hose work - in 20/20 hindsight, I would have come out a little better if I'd bought a new longer high pressure line instead.

Continued in next post...


----------



## Gooserider

Continued



> Do you have issues of overly hot hydraulics? My ram temp gets to 180* after hardly 40 minutes. I called HF and finally got a tech who said the filter housing position is important, and to have the taper pointed out. I should have asked if he meant out in terms of flow direction or in terms of position on the tank, as I haven’t been able to get through again. I noticed your repositioned filter mount is backwards from mine. Was it originally in the same orientation did you notice? Can’t tell from your “before” pics.



I'm not sure how hot the hydraulics get, as I don't currently have a good way of measuring the temp.  The old "touch test" (I can touch the metal parts for a few seconds w/o getting burned, but it's too hot to hold onto comfortably) suggests that they are only getting to a little over 100*, but who knows.  I do wish they'd stay cooler.  

I repositioned my filter housing as you noticed, but that was just to make the return hose reach.  The filter housing is facing the same direction it came from the factory in terms of fluid flow.  I seem to recall that the housing on my unit either had a flow arrow on it, or was marked "in" and "out", which is what I would have followed - remember the filter line is the return line that goes INTO the tank...  If yours is backwards, I would expect it to cause problems and would need fixing - if you do though, be sure to change the filter as you will have been running fluid through it backwards, and reversing the flow would "backwash" all the crud out of the filter and back into the system.

Now according to a lot of the hydraulic info sites I've looked at, much of the heating one gets in a system is from the friction of pushing the fluid through the lines, which is made worse if the lines are undersized for the size of the pump.  My interpretation of the recommendations suggests that the HF lines are undersized for the application, especially on the 16gpm pump units.  However this doesn't seem to be unusual, as many of the splitters I've looked at appear to use similar size lines.  I don't know if it would be worth upsizing any lines that were being replaced, or not (especially since it's supposed to be a sizeable price jump to to to the next size line)  Even more so the question of upgrading an existing line that didn't need replacing.

The other factor that seems to be common to all splitters I've seen is that the fluid tank is FAR smaller than optimal - most of the "how to design a hydraulic system" sites I've seen suggest that the fluid tank should be at least as large as, and preferably twice the pump gpm rating.  For a 16gpm pump, that would be 16-32 gallons. In actual practice most splitters seem to be closer to 5 gallons.  My HF tank took about 4 gallons when I filled it initially, and took another gallon once I got the machine running and filled the cylinder and all the plumbing....  I don't know if it would be worth trying to put a transmission cooler or similar in the return line, or possibly try attaching some sort of cooling fins to the sides of the fluid tank to increase the heat dissipation.



> I’ve run about 14 cords through it so far, and want to start heavily modifying it, but am considering returning it, and would be problematic if permanantly modified.



Well thus far, all my mods except the effort at making the short stroke kickout on the valve, and the log length marks have been completely reversible  (Indeed I'd want to reverse them just to get my fittings back!)  The next phase of mods will probably be harder to undo w/o leaving a trace - I want to spin the engine 180* to make it blow the cooling air away from me, and make it easier to reach the controls among other things.

Gooserider


----------



## cityevader

Ahh, I looked over your pics again. My mind stopped at the one where the ram's inlet port is straight up and a screwdriver was holding it in and I thought that was where it stayed. Now I see in the other pics it is indeed rotated 180. Thanks for clarifying.

Being winter now, the hot air blowing is a good thing, but last summer it was unbearable. Need to do a bit of welding to extend the "deck" which the engine sits on to rotate it 180*

With other projects in the works, I have a feeling it'll be awhile until I can start the valve relocation project.


----------



## Gooserider

cityevader said:
			
		

> Ahh, I looked over your pics again. My mind stopped at the one where the ram's inlet port is straight up and a screwdriver was holding it in and I thought that was where it stayed. Now I see in the other pics it is indeed rotated 180. Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Being winter now, the hot air blowing is a good thing, but last summer it was unbearable. Need to do a bit of welding to extend the "deck" which the engine sits on to rotate it 180*
> 
> With other projects in the works, I have a feeling it'll be awhile until I can start the valve relocation project.



Yeah, the screwdriver part was a temporary thing to hold the cylinder with the ports facing up in order to make it easier to work on from either side...  It worked well as a technique though, the cylinder never budged while I was doing the work, and considering the amount of torque I was using on some of the fittings, that was impressive (per my pipe dope bottle, I was supposed to do 3 turns past finger tight, and the last turn was often a real battle...)

I found the problem with the hot air blowing at me was that it had a tendency to pick up any dirt, sawdust, or whatever on the logs and blow it in my face...  I didn't mind the temperature as much as I did the dirt, which always seemed to find it's way around my glasses.

However I don't know about needing to extend the deck for the engine - On mine the engine is sitting on the deck extension, and spinning it around would presumably put it on the platform next to the oil tank.  I don't have exact measurements, but it looks to me like if you drilled new mounting holes for the engine on the platform, so that the engine base was flush with the rear end of the platform, then it should fit nicely w/ no welding needed. 

The only question I have is whether there is enough room between the tank and the tire to fit the engine in between, and whether there would be any interference from either the filter or the suction line outlet.  Obviously there would be a need to replace all three hoses, and I'd need to modify the suction inlet on the pump to change it from a right angle inlet to a straight one, or perhaps change the way the pump is mounted.

Other items on the "to do list" would include trying to get rid of some of the slop in the beam mounts, and possibly reinforcing the tank a bit (I've heard reports of leaks from people that tow the units a lot)  I'd also like to improve the horizontal lock to make it easier to get the pin into place, and make it possible to point the brace leg straight up in order to get it out of the way when storing the unit with the beam vertical (minimizing the needed footprint area)

In the totally wild fantasy realm would be to add a hydraulic motor that would let me "drive" the unit around the yard without needing the lawn tractor or other towing vehicle...

Gooserider

Gooserider


----------



## cityevader

I did initial measurements on the engine mounting, and there was a good 3 inches of interference if flipped around...I can't remember exactly which direction, but the mounts would have to come away from the tank and towards to hitch ench by about 2 inches each I believe. It might be easier to fab up a large metal shield to block the wind/dust, as well as angled to cover the pump/gauge to protect from falling splits. 

Wild fantasy?....have some sort of channel mounting for the toeplate to slide into to make it removeable, so a wedge could be slid in, quickly changing  from sliding wedge to fixed wedge....also a bigger/quieter muffler....maybe a remote/auto throttle that would kick down when return stroke completed.


----------



## Gooserider

cityevader said:
			
		

> I did initial measurements on the engine mounting, and there was a good 3 inches of interference if flipped around...I can't remember exactly which direction, but the mounts would have to come away from the tank and towards to hitch ench by about 2 inches each I believe. It might be easier to fab up a large metal shield to block the wind/dust, as well as angled to cover the pump/gauge to protect from falling splits.
> 
> Wild fantasy?....have some sort of channel mounting for the toeplate to slide into to make it removeable, so a wedge could be slid in, quickly changing  from sliding wedge to fixed wedge....also a bigger/quieter muffler....maybe a remote/auto throttle that would kick down when return stroke completed.



My idea on the throttle would be something to rev the engine when putting the valve into split mode, then go back to fast idle for neutral and return - if the engine is doing a fast idle already, speeding it up doesn't really do much for the cycle time, but it would be nice to rev up for splits where the pump might actually kick into high pressure mode and load the engine.  Depending on how fast the engine will actually respond to a throttle change, it might not actually be that hard to do something along that line...

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

Well, after 50 hours of use, my HF 30t splitter' cylinder started to leak profusely. As the old Eskimo said, the last thing that you ever want to do is blow a seal, but there it is. I'm going to replace it ASAP, never done anything like this, but it looks easy. I'll take pix. Otherwise, the unit has been ok, no problems...


----------



## Gooserider

Woodsroad said:
			
		

> Well, after 50 hours of use, my HF 30t splitter' cylinder started to leak profusely. As the old Eskimo said, the last thing that you ever want to do is blow a seal, but there it is. I'm going to replace it ASAP, never done anything like this, but it looks easy. I'll take pix. Otherwise, the unit has been ok, no problems...



Depending on how old it is, give HF a call and see if they will replace it for you - A couple of parts on mine that had problems they just sent me new parts, no questions asked, and didn't even want the old ones back....

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

Well, I bought it in 2007 or so. Maybe 2006, can't remember the month. And HF had no record of the sale. Either way, it's out of warranty and I can't fool them about it. 
What went bad on yours?


----------



## cityevader

I replaced my pump, valve, filter, and cylinder, still overheated. Best thing I did to mine was sell it.... however, I moved out of the forest and into the city and sold everything relatd to the outdoors....(not neccessarily a good thing)  Got a grand for the splitter, broken welds, multiple leaks, overheating and all.  If I were to do it all over again.... Supersplit.


----------



## Woodsroad

I feel so fortunate all of a sudden.....


----------



## Gooserider

Woodsroad said:
			
		

> Well, I bought it in 2007 or so. Maybe 2006, can't remember the month. And HF had no record of the sale. Either way, it's out of warranty and I can't fool them about it.
> What went bad on yours?



I had small leaks in the valve and the cylinder - both were on the order of a slow drip, not enough to make the machine unuseable, but annoying.  I'll admit they were at the level where I probably wouldn't have paid to  fix them, but I called to see what HF would do, and they sent me new parts...  The replacement valve still drips a tiny bit, but not enough to mess with.  My cylinder seems to have cured itself - the leak stopped before I had a chance to change it out for the new one, but I now have a spare if I ever need one...

I also had an intermittent leak on the filter head, which seemed to resolve by over-tightening the filter several times - however one day the filter gasket blew out, which was quite impressive - hot hydraulic oil fountain, made it a bit of a challenge to reach the kill switch w/o getting burned, and made a really big mess...  I opted at that point to replace the filter head - the local hydraulic shop didn't have a replacement filter to fit the existing head, and the one they had carried a much larger filter.  That puts this fix on the border between "upgrade" and "repair"

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

I wonder where these machines are assembled. The pump on mine is a Haldex (USA) and my engine says "Made in Japan", so it seems that the chassis, cylinder and valve are made in China and shipped here for further assembly. If HF runs their assembly operation like they run their stores (minimum wage/maximum management stupidity), then this shoddy work is just par for the course and part of their business plan.

I've gotten good use out of my machine, and for $990, it was the best deal out there. I'm not sure though, given the choice, I would buy another HF splitter.


----------



## velvetfoot

I have identical unit.
I haven't used mine for a while, but the cylinder also leaks.
The leak goes away after awhile with use.
Woodsroad, I'd be interested in your seal change experience.
Where will you be getting the seals?  
HF included some seals with the splitter, but maybe using them isn't the best approach.


----------



## cityevader

I still have a bag of seals that came with my splitter for 5" cylinder if anyone interested...PM me.


----------



## Gooserider

Woodsroad said:
			
		

> I wonder where these machines are assembled. The pump on mine is a Haldex (USA) and my engine says "Made in Japan", so it seems that the chassis, cylinder and valve are made in China and shipped here for further assembly. If HF runs their assembly operation like they run their stores (minimum wage/maximum management stupidity), then this shoddy work is just par for the course and part of their business plan.
> 
> I've gotten good use out of my machine, and for $990, it was the best deal out there. I'm not sure though, given the choice, I would buy another HF splitter.



I don't know, but I would strongly suspect that they are assembled in China - The crate that my machine arrived in had a lot of Chinese labeling on it that wouldn't have been needed if it had been assembled and packed in the US.  In addition, there are marketing advantages to being able to say "Made in USA" - and my unit doesn't say so.  (Note that it doesn't take much to get a "Made in USA" label - as long as a certain minimum amount of final assembly is done here, it qualifies...  I used to deal with this back when I was working for an Israeli company - there are a bunch of countries that won't buy from Israel, so for those custmers, they would ship machines to us, we would do a minimal amount of final assembly, load software on the drives, and run a test program, then slap our Made in USA labels on over the "Made in Israel" labels and ship...)

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> I have identical unit.
> I haven't used mine for a while, but the cylinder also leaks.
> The leak goes away after awhile with use.
> Woodsroad, I'd be interested in your seal change experience.
> Where will you be getting the seals?
> HF included some seals with the splitter, but maybe using them isn't the best approach.



My leak is catastrophic! A gusher.

I've removed the faceplate of the cylinder, and I'm pretty much stumped on how to proceed. There is another face plate that holds the seal, and I can't see how to remove it. I can't move the shaft more than 1/4" in or out...

I was going to use the HF seal kit, but, perhaps, you are correct in being just a little suspect as to it's quality....


----------



## velvetfoot

I wonder how much a pro would charge?


----------



## Woodsroad

OK, I got it apart!
The cylinder was not empty yet. I removed the valve and drained the cylinder. I was able to remove the piston by overextending it and wiggling it back and forth while pulling on it.
There is no apparent seal damage. However, the nut that holds the rear end of the piston on was very loose, almost falling off. I imagine that this would introduce enough play in the shaft to allow a leak at the front seal. I'm replacing the seals, anyway.


----------



## Woodsroad

Detail of piston ends and the loose end nut...


----------



## Gooserider

Ouch!  Good thing you caught that when you did...  I could be wrong, but that looks like the kind of failure that could have been catastrophic if the nut had come all the way off...  If it had, I would have expected the rod to have been extended rapidly, with no control as soon as you put the valve into extend or retract mode...

It would seem like a safety problem that the nut could come off easily, I'm surprised there wasn't a cotter pin or at least a self locking nut to prevent it from coming loose...  (If you have the tools to drill the rod, it might be worth doing before putting the cylinder back together...

Gooserider


----------



## velvetfoot

Great stuff!


----------



## Gooserider

For whatever it's worth department (not much...) I just called HF customer support, and then got referred to their tech support department, and they tell me there is no way for them to tell if there have been any changes to the inside of that cylinder to prevent this kind of problem...

Interestingly, I recalled seeing THIS THREAD that I made a while back passing on the information about a recall on Brave and Iron Oak splitters, that had a "rod retention failure"

From the report (emphasis added) - 


> Hazard: The log splitter’s hydraulic cylinders can have defective rod retention, *causing the seals to leak and the rods to detach*. This can result in serious injury to the operator, as the rod can rapidly and unexpectedly extend the splitting wedge.
> 
> Incidents/Injuries: Brave Products originally received 59 reports of leaking cylinders and/or rod retention failure. *One consumer reported a hand amputation that could have been caused by this cylinder defect*. There have been 26 additional reports of failure, including units previously thought to be unaffected by the earlier recalls. No new injuries have been reported.



I called both CPSC and Brave, and couldn't get any additional information as to the exact nature of their failure that prompted the recall, but it sounds like the symptoms are similar, and would be consistent with that kind of nut coming loose...

Since I'm not the person experiencing the failure, I'm not sure I can file a full report, but it might be worth going to the CPSC website and filing a report...  They told me to go to the CPSC webpage www.cpsc.gov and scroll down to the "consumer complaint form" option.  I may try it to see how far I can get...

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

I just a returned an email to HF tech support...I'm going to call them now....

EDIT:
I spoke with a Harbor Freight tech CSR who stonewalled and offered to sell me replacement parts. I explained to this person that their splitter could have killed me, and she replied "Yes, I know sir, but it is out of warranty".

OK.

I asked to speak to her supervisor, and a very attentive woman took my call, expressed great concern, seemed to understand the situation, and said that she would get back to me. She gave me her email, and I sent her the CPSC recall notice and a recap of our conversation. 

I wait.


----------



## Gooserider

Well I tried looking at the CPSC website, and their form didn't really seem to apply, and it asked for a lot of information that I didn't have, so I decided it was more appropriate to send them an e-mail, which the website also suggests as an alternative to filling out the form.  So I have sent the following to the CPSC....



> Hello,
> 
> I am a moderator on a forum for people that heat with wood.  As part of heating with wood, we also discuss products that deal with turning trees into firewood, including log splitters.
> 
> One of our users reported a problem with a Harbor Freight Tools brand 30-ton log splitter.  As I personally own the same or a similar model, I am naturally concerned about the risks of having a similar problem occurring to my machine.  My machine is a model 91840, however Harbor Freight has sold similar looking machines under many different model numbers, so I don't know what the model number of the other person's machine is.
> 
> The user reported that his machine purchased in 1996 or 1997 developed a serious fluid leak in the hydraulic cylinder, so he disassembled the cylinder to determine the cause and attempt repairs.  He found that there was a nut which attached the piston to the piston rod which was extremely loose.  It appears to me that if the nut had come off completely, the piston rod would have been forcefully and rapidly ejected from the cylinder in an unpredictable manner, with severe possibility of injury.
> 
> This failure appears very similar to the one described in your Release #09-174 issued on April 1, 2009 involving certain Brave and Iron Oak splitters. As that recall mentioned at least one hand amputation, it seems to me that this is a subject of possibly severe concern.
> 
> Preventing this kind of failure at the time of manufacturing would be very easy to do in my opinion, as all that would be needed is to install a cotter pin or other method to keep the nut from coming off.  It would be harder for a consumer to do because of the tools needed.  In addition, because the parts involved are inside the hydraulic cylinder, which is normally only dismantled by professional techs when overhauling it, there is no way for a consumer to check whether the nut is tight or not.
> 
> I have called Harbor Freight's customer service and technical support departments and they were not able to tell me if there had been any changes to the way the cylinder was built that would prevent failures between the time the other user's machine had been built, and when I purchased mine in the summer of 1998.
> 
> If you would like more details, you can see them in the forum thread, at the website address https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23743/P75/
> The problem discussion starts on page 6 of the thread. ( I am known as "Gooserider" on that forum)
> 
> I looked at filling out the form on the CPSC website, and it seemed like there were a lot of the details I couldn't provide, so I am hoping this report will serve as a starter to alert you to the potential problem - if you need further information you will probably need to contact the user involved directly.



Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

Purchased Feb 2006

Otherwise, spot on. Thanks. (Yes, it IS the 91840)

The cylinder and overall construction of the recalled splitters are very similar to the Harbor Freight units. The HF manager did seem a bit alarmed about the retaining nut problem. I'm pretty shaken up myself. It was a very close call.

The HF rep just called me back to let me know that she has sent the problem on to their QA department, and that she would get back to me tomorrow with more info.

Now, sit and wait

(Damn, I really have to get splitting, though, cold weather is on the way....)


----------



## velvetfoot

Wow, scary.  Maybe threadlocker would do the trick.  What was the fix on the other brand recall?  New cylinder?


----------



## velvetfoot

I have the electronic version of the owners manual, if you need it.


----------



## Gooserider

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> Wow, scary.  Maybe threadlocker would do the trick.  What was the fix on the other brand recall?  New cylinder?



It appears the fix on the Brave recall was to replace the cylinder.  IMHO this is the only really practical solution at the consumer point, as I don't think that most consumers would have the tools / skills needed to open the cylinder (Which BTW, the HF manual on my splitter says should only be serviced by a professional hydraulic tech)  Without looking at the economics, this is somewhat speculative, but what I would probably do if I were in charge of a recall like this is do some sort of cross-ship of refurbished cylinders - require the customer to supply a credit card number, (or return the old cylinder first,) then send out a new / refurbished cylinder, and a UPS call tag to return the old one, maybe also a check for some amount to pay for an OPE / Hydraulic shop to change out the cylinder or compensate the customer for the trouble of doing it himself.  As the old cylinders come back, get them refurbished and fixed for sending to the next batch of customers...   This does the dual purpose of getting the old, potentially liability causing, cylinders out of circulation, and avoiding the need to buy huge numbers of replacement cylinders....

Once into the cylinder, as a repair technique, thread locker might work, but I don't know that I'd want to trust it given the environment and that there is no practical way to check on the nut at a later time. Thread locker can work, but it is somewhat critical that the surfaces be properly prepared and so forth, I don't see it as completely reliable...  I would be more inclined to cross drill the piston rod and put in a cotter pin, as that is about as fail safe as one can get...  Failing that a self locking nut of the correct sort might also work, or even the old trick of buggering the protruding threads...

Gooserider


----------



## velvetfoot

There are other instances on www.arboristsite.com

Here's one:
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=41540

The knowledgeable person suggested 400-500 ft-lbs for the one inch nut and red loctite.
He said it would take a torch to remove it the next time.


----------



## Gooserider

Interesting thread, thanks for the pointer...  judging by the end of the page stats, must be lots of people following this - they showed 4 folks were reading the thread, which isn't bad for something as old as that one...

I'm not sure I like the idea of a roll pin to hold the nut as they just rely on spring tension for staying in place,  but cotter pins IMHO are a better option since they have ends that get bent over to keep them from going anywhere...  The red locktite might also work with enough surface prep, and if one can get the thing tight enough - which seems iffy for a home shop - I have a pretty decent tool collection, but would have trouble doing more than about 150 ft/lbs of torque with the stuff I have.

Gooserider


----------



## kevin j

Once the nut comes off, putting oil into either end of cylinder turns into a single acting ram. The pump flow is no longer working against the 4 inch area either way, but against the 1.5 inch (or wheatever) rod diameter. It will move at 3 or 4 times normal speed extend. Same principle as regeneration.  Could be dangerous, as the other recall noted.

Looking at the seal pics, they apparently use two orings in a single groove. No backup rings or extrusion support. Read: the absolute cheapest way for seal cost and installation labor to do it. Not very long lived.

I would inpspect the bore ID and make sure it isn't damaged or poorly machined. If rough cheap machining it will eat up new seals also. Then take the piston to a hydraulics supplier, measure the groove dimensions, and fit a U cup seal or solid wear band type of seal. They will last longer than orings. At very least, fit some Parker ParBak backup rings. Supplier will know what they are and likely have them in stock.  Thoroughly clean the threads, Loctite Red on it, and fully torque it up. 

I think the upgrading will give you a better seal than a new one. New means just another one of the low end china cylinders.

Frustrates me that so much low quality, and in this case possibly dangerous, stuff is their because the american consumer buys usually on price. Really hard to explain or sell quality in the consumer market. Even the industrial market is tremendous pressure because the decisions are made by bean counters and MBA managers, not users, mechanics or engineers.

k


----------



## Woodsroad

Yes, thanks for the pointer. Seems like an identical failure....


----------



## blades

This is interesting as my hf 30ton is from 2002. I have no idea how many cords have been through it, but there were 20 this year so far. Maybe it is time to pull cylinder apart as this thread has me slightly concerned. Leaking valve I have also,just haven't replaced it yet. Filter head was installed backwards at factory so that was my very first problem. replaced it with a higher flow unit from Northern. I have had the rear retaining block separate from the main beam a couple years ago, very poor weld no penetration, typical of a robotic weld lately. I see a lot of weld failures on the snowplow frames that looked the same way. Blew the high pressure hose at the edge of the coupling a month ago, another trip to Northern and got a replacement hose. Mine is at the point of needing to be rebuilt or send it down the road an purchase/build another that has a lift. The toe plate, beam and kick off shoe are all bent/twisted, but it is still splitting.


----------



## Woodsroad

*UPDATE*

I received a call late this morning from a man who identified himself as HF's "head tech" guy. He had read my email outlining the problem, seemed concerned about the problem, and more so about the CPSC recall of the other splitters because, as he said, they are all made in one place. He claimed that mine was the first such complaint. I tried to tell him that other people had been stonewalled by HF Customer Service, or had not reported the problem to HF because the splitter was out of warranty. I'm not sure if he was listening. Doesn't matter, really.

About an hour after speaking with him, the nice woman from Customer Service called back and offered to send me a new cylinder. I thanked her, but declined the offer unless they could prove to me that the cylinder design has been changed to make the retaining nut stay where it should be: on the end of the piston shaft. She agreed that was a reasonable demand, and said she would get back to me with an answer. That was in the early afternoon, and no answer has been forthcoming. So I have to assume that this has been kicked up the food chain at HF.

As they say in old time radio:

*Stay Tuned for the Exciting Conclusion!*


----------



## velvetfoot

I'm figuring I'll eventually be buying a large wrench to crank on the nut...from Harbor Freight, lol.


----------



## Woodsroad

I have an I-R impact gun that hits 550 '#'s, but, damn, I'm hesitant to trust anything made by HF that has the power to kill you....


----------



## Woodsroad

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> I'm figuring I'll eventually be buying a large wrench to crank on the nut...from Harbor Freight, lol.



If I remember correctly, you bought your splitter in late 2006 right before I bought mine. How has it worked out for you?
Thanks...


----------



## Gooserider

As mentioned earlier, I sent a message about this to the CPSC - I got this response back -


> Hello,
> 
> We would be interested in filing a formal report concerning the safety hazard.  Please note we will accept as much information that you have available.  For the fields that you are unable to answer, simply state "unknown".
> 
> You can file a report by calling us at 1-800-638-2772, between 8:30am & 5:00pm, Monday - Friday, EST. or you can use the link below.
> 
> If you use the link below, please click on that link and then click on the link that says, "For consumers: report an injury, death, or unsafe product to us" and fill out the information on that page and hit "send to CPSC" at the bottom.
> 
> http://www.cpsc.gov/talk.html
> 
> Please file the report 1 way or the other, but do not file it both ways.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> mg



So I guess the gov't may be interested in this as well, and it doesn't look like a "form-letter" type response...  I will try giving them a call tomorrow, rather than doing the web form, I figure a person might be better able to deal with something that doesn't quite fit the standard form...

Gooserider


----------



## velvetfoot

Sorry for the slow reply.
I only put about 6-7 cords through it.
It leaks from the ram seal.  Seems to stop after a while.
I've been buying my wood split-it took a heck of long time to split that log-length load, and I'm no spring chicken.
There's not that much of a price differential, for me, to make it worthwhile.  
I still might take a look as you did, but I've got other stuff to do now as well.

It'd have to held pretty tight to get it that tight.
But, why does it really have to be that tight, with the loc-tite on it?
It's not like it's a rotating piece of equipment.


----------



## Woodsroad

I've held off posting again until I heard back from Harbor Freight. I received a call today from their corporate office. They informed me that they are waiting for a response from the importer, who is, in turn, waiting to hear from the Chinese manufacturer. The woman that I spoke with said that it would be a week until she got back to me again. Of course, I told her that was not acceptable, but the long and short of it is that they are not going to do anything until she hears from the cylinder manuf AND she speaks with the Hf attorney. I suggested that they just ships a new splitter and she refused to discuss it.

I think that it is time for me to file a CPSC complaint and talk to my lawyer.


----------



## Woodsroad

Yes, LOL, buy a bad tool to fix a bad tool. All HF tools should come with more HF tools to make repairs.

Get a 10ml bottle of Loctite Threadlocker 277, and you should be in good shape....

277 Threadlocker High Strength Red - 10ml.

277 Threadlocker locks fasteners up to 1 1/2in. (36 mm).
Protects threads from rust and corrosion.
Removable with heat and hand tools.
Removable with heat and hard tools

Specifications

    * Capacity Vol.: 10 mL
    * Packing Type: Bottle
    * Color: Red
    * Viscosity: 7000.0 cP
    * Torque (Break): 275 in lb
    * Torque (Prevail): 275 in lb
    * Temp. Range: Minus 65.0 Degree F [Min], 300.0 Degree F [Max]
    * Fix Cure Time at Temp.: 60 min at 77 Degree F
    * Full Cure Time at Temp.: 24 h at 77 Degree F
    * Thread Size: 1 1/2 in [Max]
    * Chemical Compound: Acrylic
    * Applications: Thread
    * Applicable Materials: Most Metals
    * Curing Method: Anaerobic
    * Resistance: Corrosive Process, Motor Oil, Hydrochloric Acid-10 percentage, Moisture, Brake Fluid, Unleaded Gasoline
    * Odor/Scent: Mild
    * UNSPSC: 31201600

Technical Information

    * Applications: For Metal Parts Thread Sealing and Threadlocking > Threadlocking > Removable Medium Strength
    * Chemistry: (Meth-)Acrylates (monomeric)
    * Media Carrier: 100 percentage liquid and paste
    * Cure Type: Anaerobic
    * Specifications Met: Military Specification


----------



## Gooserider

Well, for whatever it is worth department, I procrastinated a bit, but after swapping some e-mails with Woodsroad, I ended up filing a complaint on his splitter with the CPSC...  They sent me a copy of the report to verify and correct, and I just sent it back to them, along with a more detailed narrative.  

This is a lightly edited version of what I sent - I removed names, contact info, and a bit of personal stuff that I will let Woodsroad decide what he wants to say about.



> Ref Report # H09A0326A
> 
> I am a moderator on Hearth.com, the worlds largest website for people that heat with wood, and as such we engage in considerable discussion of the equipment involved in processing firewood, including log splitters.  My username on the forum is "Gooserider".
> 
> One of our users, known as "Woodsroad", reported a problem with his 30 ton Harbor Freight log splitter. This led to considerable discussion on the forum, detailed on pages 6-8 of the thread "My 30 ton Harbor Freight splitter experience" link -  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/23743/P75/
> 
> As I have the same model splitter from a later year, I was concerned, especially since I remembered having seen a recall on Brave brand splitters for what sounded like the same failure - see CPSC recall issue 09-174. The Brave recall mentioned injuries including a hand amputation caused by this defect.
> 
> On the website "Arboristsite.com" there was a report of a similar failure on a different and older HF splitter and discussion of the appropriate repair techniques, which essentially involved properly torquing the nut involved to 4-500 foot pounds, and applying a high strength thread locking compound (red Locktite). Link - http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=41540. While not a hydraulics technician, I would think that similar results could be attained by use of an appropriate self-locking nut, or a mechanical retention method such as a cotter pin to prevent the nut from loosening.
> 
> Note that this is a type of repair that is well beyond the abilities of most consumers as it requires special tools and knowledge. There is no way for a consumer to proactively check that this nut has been properly assembled, and in the normal course of usage, no reason for a consumer to do so. Hydraulic cylinders are normally considered sealed units that would only be dismantled in the event that they required servicing after thousands of hours of use.
> 
> Hydraulic wood splitters are also very generic in their design and construction. While there are many manufacturers of splitters, they are made by combining a very small number of parts that come from a short list of suppliers. It is very likely that if a serious problem is found with this brand of splitter, there would be many other makes that use hydraulic cylinders from the same source.
> 
> As detailed in the Hearth.com link mentioned above, I contacted Harbor Freight myself, and was told by their tech support that they have no way of determining if or when any design changes have been made that would prevent this type of failure.
> 
> While capable of causing severe injury if misused, a log splitter is relatively safe under normal conditions, as the hydraulic cylinder can only move when the control valve is actuated, and then the movement is highly predictable. However, if the nut holding the piston and cylinder rod together comes off, any actuation of the control valve will cause the cylinder to extend to it's fullest extent suddenly, with no warning, and at a much higher rate than normal. It will then be locked in this fully extended position until such time as the engine has been stopped, and the valve manipulated in the proper way to release the hydraulic pressure - this may also require partially disassembling the unit. A user that had a body part trapped in this way might well be unable to rescue himself. Since normal splitting practice frequently involves manipulating the wood to be split in the working area of the tool, there is considerable risk of entrapment or injury.



Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

Hello, Folks

When Gooserider filed that initial CPSC report, I was a bit surprised, but in retrospect, it was very much the right thing for him to do. 

In my absence since my last post, I've really had the go-around with Harbor Freight. At first, they refused to help me, and only offered to sell me a replacement cylinder. I didn't want a replacement cylinder, I wanted a new cylinder that didn't have the same design and manufacturing defects as the one I already had. A cylinder that is designed and built so that the retaining nut stays in place. I was trying to get Harbor Freight to look in to the problem of the loose retaining nut, but it seems that they buy these cylinders and/or entire splitters through a middleman, who then deals with the Chinese manufacturing rep. It was literally a slow boat from China getting any info about the cylinder, and nobody was being forthcoming about design and build information. The guy at Harbor Freight who is the self-described "Head Tech Guy" told me that it is very likely that the cylinders on all these similar splitters come from the same factory or middleman in China. With no information on the cylinders available, I suggested that they just send me a new splitter. They can take the old one away. "No can do", they said.

Well some more time went by, and eventually I get a call from their Claims Department. We discussed the matter back and forth some more, and after their Legal Department got involved, they finally called me and said that they would refund the purchase price of the splitter. One small detail: I would need to sign a release, get it notarized and mail it back. Here is a link to that release  with names and private info redacted:

http://www.mtfgfa.org/hf/1.pdf

As you can see, the release would restrict me not only from discussing the proposed settlement and the log splitter that I own (which I understand and would agree to) but it also restricts me from ever discussing Harbor Freight and any of their products in any way which they may construe as derogatory or defamatory.  I attempted to get HF to raise the payment (enough to pay for a non- Harbor Freight Splitter) AND lift the gag order on everything but my splitter and the settlement agreement, but they refused. 

Gooserider must have anticipated Harbor Freight making a settlement offer to me, one that would bar me from discussing the matter, and decided that the CPSC needed to know about the problem. My wife said that what he did was brilliant. He never spoke to me about what he was going to do, he just did it. Smart man.

But the gag order was a non-starter for me. Knowing that there may be other splitters out there with the same problem as mine, I could not just shut up and wait to eventually hear that someone was injured. How anyone could rest with that on their conscience, knowing about a potentially life-threatening situation and saying nothing about it, I do not know.

So, if you have a Harbor Freight 30 ton log splitter, I would strongly suggest that you either dismantle the cylinder and examine the retaining nut, or, at the very least, stop using the splitter as soon as even the smallest leak begins at the seal. That is how my splitter's problems began. A seal leak can be a sign that the shaft is coming loose and is no longer straight in the cylinder housing. Also be aware of the cylinder "popping", or the shaft moving quickly or jumping just a little bit, in the forward or retracting mode. This is indicative of a loose retaining nut and shaft.

What people do in the future about log splitter purchasing decisions is up to them. I am not passing judgment on Harbor Freight or their products. I only know about my splitter, and now, you know about it, too.


----------



## coolnick73

I caught wind of this thread from tractorbynet and just got done reading the whole thread.  Did anybody find out if HF has resolved the loosening nut problem?  Is there any way to determine that this is not going to be a problem for any of the splitter manufacturers?


----------



## Gooserider

coolnick73 said:
			
		

> I caught wind of this thread from tractorbynet and just got done reading the whole thread.  Did anybody find out if HF has resolved the loosening nut problem?  Is there any way to determine that this is not going to be a problem for any of the splitter manufacturers?



Far as I know there hasn't been a resolution - I haven't heard anything from either the CPSC or HF, and I haven't heard any reports that anyone else has.  I don't really know what to suggest, as I don't really have a "good" solution.  

Obviously since we don't know
1. Who the supplier is on the HF splitter cylinders, 
2. What other companies might be using the same cylinders, 
3. If / when the cylinder maker might have done something to resolve the apparent defect,

It isn't practical to suggest getting a different brand of splitter, or swapping out a cylinder for a new one in an effort to avoid the "bad" cylinders - we can't tell which ones are "bad" and could even end up swapping a "good" one for a "bad" one...

There aren't any checks one can make to see if your cylinder might have a problem, short of pulling the cylinder out and taking it to a hydraulic shop for overhaul and check - which is likely to be an expensive job, and hard to justify given the low number of known issues...

All I can really see as a suggestion is to keep a close eye on the way the splitter acts, and treat any changes in the way it acts,  the noises it makes, or any excess signs of cylinder leakage as warning signs...  If you do have any work done on the cylinder, be sure to mention this issue and emphasize that they need to give that nut some extra attention...

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

Yes, I'm in agreement with everything that Gooserider says. Well put.

Please pay close attention to any leakage from the ram seal area, as this was my first indication that something was not right. I mistook the leak for a bad seal, when, in fact, it was the retaining nut coming loose. If the retaining nut does come loose, you will have ample warning before it backs off entirely, and I urge you to heed that warning, no matter how much wood you have left to split.

Harbor Freight has shown little interest in the details of the cylinder failure problem, and they have not indicated to me that they have made any changes to the design or construction of the cylinder. They may have fixed this problem, we just do not know.

The CPSC has not contacted me. I suspect that they only follow up on product malfunction reports if there are injuries involved, or if it is politically expedient.

Caveat emptor.


----------



## blades

Just a note that the unit with the log lift & a couple others disappeared from various issues of the fliers as well as the internet for several months, they have now reappeared. I do not know if this has any bearing or not just the timing seemed to coincide.
I see that the log lift model (30t) now has the tank as the axle (recent flier), can not remember if it was that way prior or not. The 22t is the same construction physically as it was last summer/early fall. Judging by the pictures.
Just checked the internet sight,30t w/ log lifter not listed. their standard design for 30,22, and smaller are listed.


----------



## Gooserider

Another possible reason is that around the time in question they also seemed to be changing engines - The older units had Subaru-Robin engines, those models disappeared for a while, and then a new model number appeared that looked the same, but had a "china-clone" copy of the Subaru-Robin engine.  For a while the log lift version still had the SR engine while the others had the clone engine - I'm suspecting is they finally burned through the backlog of the SR engine log lifters, and are in the process of replacing them with the clone engine version...

Gooserider


----------



## Woodsroad

The cylinder appears, outwardly, to be unchanged. Appearance doesn't mean much, though.
With a Chinaru engine, however, the splitter becomes MUCH less of a bargain. Not much there worthwhile now, aside from the Haldex pump, and even that is an OEM spec item.


----------



## velvetfoot

Yes, I know it's been a while.
I just took the piston out, and yes, the huge nut was possible for me to loosen, by hand, with a big channel-lok on the nut and a stake through the eye on the other end.
Definitely no 400 ft-lbs on that nut, lol.

The seals look okay to me, but what do I know.
The nut seems to have a lock washer under it.

The question is, what do I do now?

I guess I could re-attach the eye end to the wedge to hold it while I crank on the bolt with something or other.
I'm going to have to buy that something or other however.

Any ideas?


----------



## Woodsroad

OK, refresh my memory here. The ram was leaking at the seal?


----------



## velvetfoot

Yes.
It also looks there's a seal missing - there's a channel but no seal.
I'll take a picture.


----------



## velvetfoot

There's a channel that looks empty.
I'm going to see if I can find the extra seal kit that came with the splitter.
I read another thread about a loose HF retaining nut AND a missing seal (yes, I did reply in that thread back in 2009):
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/102050.htm

The nut wasn't threaded off-but only lightly hand tightened - I only put 7 cords through it.
A missing seal could do it.

I'm thinking of buying an air impact wrench that'll go pretty high - I wonder if there's a large driver in half inch drive?


----------



## velvetfoot

There are TWO small o-rings on the seal kit.  One of them fit perfectly!  Naturally, I can't find where the other one goes!


----------



## blades

My unit is from 02 ( 30t HF, brigs eng.), even with the various other issues over the years ram is still good, no leaks ect.


----------



## Woodsroad

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> I'm thinking of buying an air impact wrench that'll go pretty high - I wonder if there's a large driver in half inch drive?



Well, it seems that I am not alone with this problem. My suggestion: Buy a new seal kit. Put loctite on the threads. Use an air gun that developed enough torque. Get the sockets at HF. 

I'd also suggest filing a CPSC report. I did, but never heard anything back from them. You can try filing a claim with HF, they might refund your money. They offered me a refund, but I had to sign a gag order consent that covered not only the splitter, but enjoined me from saying anything about Harbor Freight that they perceived as being negative. Follow this thread backwards for all the details. I can repost a PDF of HF's settlement offer if you would like to see it. No, I did not sign it.


----------



## velvetfoot

They must've got a bad batch, but they sure are too responsible.


----------



## Woodsroad

Not a "bad batch", bad design and little to no quality control. Someone will lose their hand on one of these splitters some day....


----------



## velvetfoot

Woodsroad, are you still using your splitter?


----------



## Woodsroad

I did a complete rebuild of the cylinder, loctited the retaining nut. I replaced the diverter valve, added a return filter, replumbed everything with new hoses. So far, so good!


----------



## velvetfoot

Following the manual, I found that the location of the smaller of the two small o-rings is between the shaft and the nut-end seal retainer, and yes, it was actually there.

Another question, Woodsroad:
Does your cylinder have the lock washer?
That darn nut measures about 55 mm.


----------



## velvetfoot

Wow, you went whole-hog on that!

By diverter valve, you mean the valve that makes the cylinder go in and out?
My valve sprayed a little hydraulic fluid and didn't hold position.
HF sent me a new one (well, of course), but I never installed it;  I think I reversed the guts of it, which helped.

After this project, maybe I'll actually have to use the thing.  I had it for sale but got no bites...hmmmm...


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## Woodsroad

OK, here are some pix:



Yup, lockwasher and washer. Note small o-ring on piston. is that what you are looking for? Mine was missing.
And a pic of the rebuild.


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## Woodsroad

Here's the rebuild


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## Woodsroad

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> Wow, you went whole-hog on that!.


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## velvetfoot

The small o-ring on the ram is the one I couldn't initially locate - it does indeed exist on my splitter.

My missing larger (yet still small) o-ring is located on the inside end of the other piece (the left piece the right picture above).
It makes total sense why it would leak.
I'm gonna see if I can find a replacement o-ring at the hardware store instead of breaking into the fine HF seal kit.

I'm thinking absolute max torque isn't required since the cylinder really only 'pushes', unlike other applications like a excavator.

I like the custom 'remote control'.  The thing isn't exactly ergonomic, although, I have to say the vertical splitting isn't bad.
I had my 'gauge phase' with my last car, though your setup is nice.


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## Woodsroad

Yeah, I have a whole box of gauges that someone gave me, so I used them. Would be good to add some hydraulically-operated whirly-gigs, too!

I never really used my splitter on vertical, due to a bad back and knees. Too much bending over or kneeling. If I can't lift the log onto the splitter, I use my "elephant splitter": a 1" rod section with a 4"x4" plate welded on center on one end. Has a hole drilled through that will accommodate a 3/32 cannon fuse. Bore a 1" hole in the center of the log, pour in some cannon powder, thread a fuse through the elephant splitter, put the rod end of the splitter into the hole, put another log on top, light the fuse, retreat with due haste. I've split 4' oak this way, no problem.


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## Woodsroad

velvetfoot said:
			
		

> I'm thinking absolute max torque isn't required since the cylinder really only 'pushes', unlike other applications like a excavator.
> .


It pulls when retracted, even more so if there is a split stuck to it.
Somehow, they come loose! Use Loctite.


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## velvetfoot

I sit on something when I split vertically, and have the rounds staged on a hill.
Like I said though, I've only put about 7 cords through it.
I'm off to HF later today to look for a suitable socket and wrench.


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## velvetfoot

No impact driver that big at HF.
Saw something that might fit at Sears for 30 buck, but it was SAE.
I'm going to forgoe the new-air-impact-driver approach and crank on it with my new 24", $21.95 HF adjustable wrench.
I had a flash, and took of the seal pulley (for lack of a better word) at the end by the nut, where you said you had a missing o-ring.
I should've taken a better look before - it was all chopped up, probably because the nut was loose.
I'm going to take another trip to my local hardware store tomorrow; it seems like it's a 1.5" o-ring, which I think they have.


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## Gooserider

Just keep in mind that torque is a function of the pressure applied and the distance between the center of the fastener and the point where the force is applied...  To get 400 ft/lbs, the easiest approach will probably be to put a 4' cheater pipe on the wrench, and apply about 100lbs of pressure - or a shorter pipe and correspondingly more force...  Important note is that this is putting a LOT of force on a possibly poor quality Asian manufacture tool...  Keep in mind the proper orientation of the adjustable jaw (on the trailing side of the force) and be sure your setup is such that you won't bang yourself up if something slips / breaks / bends / etc....

Gooserider


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## velvetfoot

I'm going to forgoe the cheater bar, shoot for 200 ft-lbs, and hope for the best.


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## PJF1313

Can you bring the piston and nut you a local auto repair or, better yet, a heavy truck/heavy equipment shop and ask if one of the techs can tighten the nut with the proper sized socket?  

You may have to give the a couple bucks, but I would feel safer that way.


EDIT - Nice to see you back, Goose!


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## velvetfoot

I got it together and it works with no leaks!
I realize it's too early to declare success, but it started right up and split several pieces with no leak at all!
It's so rare that anything I do goes smoothly, so I'm tickled pink.
I've got the good vibes going again with the HF 30 splitter.
Thanks again Woodsroad!

VF


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## velvetfoot

Split several cords, no cylinder leaks, but now a tank weld leaks!  Great.  Never towed.
Bad vibes are back.


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## Jutt77

I'm looking at getting a log splitter now and just read through this entire post.  Reading from the beginning to end, my interest in the HF splitter went from definite possibility, to not great but cheap, to not a &%*$*# chance.  I think I'll just kick the extra bucks down on an I&O or Speeco or something.

Thanks for all the detail of the threads though guys, this was a really informative read...kudos to Woodsroad for not selling out to the HF attorney's refund/gag deal.


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## velvetfoot

I just got the tank welded.  Tired of putting goop on the leak along with a pan underneath, dripping on driveway.
He says it holds pressure.  Crossing my fingers!
PS:  Split about 14 cords with it since last post.
Works like a champ!


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## Woodsroad

Here we are in December of '12, I've split another 15 cords since my last post, and my splitter is holding up just fine.


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## fordcummins

I found an HF log splitter that is a few years old but was only used for one season. I think after reading these posts I will buy it and use the components to make a nice splitter. The first thing will do is have the cylinder checked then I will add a 15 gallon hydraulic tank that will help it run cooler. I have always been told that the tank should match the pump gpm so that the oil has more time to cool in the tank.


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## Woodsroad

May of 2014 Report: We had one hell of a winter, but I was well stocked with firewood from downed timber thanks to Hurricane Sandy. I've put a buttload of wood through my rebuild HF 30T splitter, with no problems.

*Allow me to reiterate: If your splitter develops a cylinder leak at the seal, cease operation and investigate! If the cylinder rod retaining nut (located inside the cylinder) comes loose, this will cause a hydraulic oil leak, and could result in serious injury, should the nut come off completely.*

That is all.
Carry on.


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## velvetfoot

I squeezed in splitting 2 cords from the log pile somehow over the winter.  After I stack that up (which, by the way is ALREADY stacked), start splitting some more.
I've had problems with the carb bowl gasket leaking, even though I drain it when not in use for a long time.  Other than that, no problems.  Vertical only.


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## Jags

Holy old thread.



velvetfoot said:


> 've had problems with the carb bowl gasket leaking, even though I drain it when not in use for a long time. Other than that, no problems.


Quit draining the carb.  You are allowing the gasket to dry up.


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## velvetfoot

Reviewing a bit, I had forgotten about the leaky tank that I had rewelded.  Since I forgot about it, it must not have leaked at all!  (knocks on wood/head).


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## Grateful11

I had a power steering cylinder rod nut to come off the piston rod on a JD 425 Garden Tractor. The only thing that stopped it from coming all the way out was the limit of the front wheel steering limiter. It was a welded cylinder and JD wanted $365 for a new one. Being a Machinist I part it apart on a lathe and sure enough the nut was off completely. Cleaned it, reassembled it with a correct amount of torque and type of Loctite and had a certified welder weld it back. It was out of warranty by about 6 months and JD made it known they didn't care.


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