# has anyone used the product "Preen"



## Crane Stoves (May 9, 2012)

I like to hear from anyone who has really used this Garden weed-free product?

Its VERY expensive and it also scares me because i fear it could "block" growth somehow of your precious veggies?

Ive tried the rolls of black sheets of breathable weed block fabric (and i DONT like that option!).
I need to till each year, some things i start from seeds (like corn, beans, etc.) and frankly these rolls of sheets become a big mess and need to be thrown away each season (not to mention taking a header into the mud last year when my boots got tripped up from the crap).

I know their is no magic bullet here to deal with weeds but my gardens are large enough now that i really need some options that will work for me to at least diminish the horror chore of weeding to some degree?

thank you!


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## lukem (May 9, 2012)

Preen is a pre-emergent.  It works by damaging the fine root hairs of newly germinated seeds so they don't turn into big plants.  It will not have any effect on a healthy full germinated plant (after a certain age, read instructions for specifics).

If you use preen in the garden, you can forget about starting stuff from seed in the garden...you will need to start in trays and transplant.


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## ironpony (May 9, 2012)

have used it for years with great succes and no noticable side effects


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## Adios Pantalones (May 9, 2012)

Screw the black plastic. Mulch the hell out of the  garden with shredded leaves. You will have to weed very little, water a lot less, and it composts in place to give you incredible soil.

Why do you have to rototill? I have not rototilled yet in 10 years with this garden- pull back the mulch and shove the plant in the ground- without any need for even a hand spade.


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## Crane Stoves (May 9, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Screw the black plastic. Mulch the hell out of the garden with shredded leaves. You will have to weed very little, water a lot less, and it composts in place to give you incredible soil.
> 
> Why do you have to rototill? I have not rototilled yet in 10 years with this garden- pull back the mulch and shove the plant in the ground- without any need for even a hand spade.


 
now thats a great idea... why not mulch the crap out of everything with bark mulch (like we do to flower beds)? any drawbacks or concerns doing this in a veggie garden?


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## Adios Pantalones (May 9, 2012)

Bark mulch 1) costs money, 2) doesn't break down like leaves do, 3) invariably gets mixed in the top layers of soil- which may or may not cause slight issues. Plus- most people have leaves they need to get rid of- may as well put them to good use.


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## lukem (May 9, 2012)

Mulch is a great idea for a garden.  Grass clippings, leaves, and pine straw are generally available at low/no cost and do a pretty good job.  Just be careful you don't throw your soil PH out of whack as some leaves and pine straw can be very acidic.

Bark mulch would work just fine, but not be ideal for the reasons mentioned above.


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## billb3 (May 9, 2012)

There's organic Preen for vegetable gardens.  It's just corn gluten.
The problem I have with Preen is getting it down early enough and then not disturbing it afterwards.

The only non-pesticide  solution I've found for crabgrass is several inches of chewed up leaves from last Fall. Thick enough to keep the soil temp down low enough so the seed doesn't sprout.

I tried some of that white growers fabric to protect seeds from cold nights/frost and the crabgrass loved it. Crabgrass sprouting in March. Lucky me ! Good indicator that it works though, I guess.


Mulch may or may not have pesticides for termite and bug control ( bags are supposed to be labelled) and even  borax  can  affect some green things. A tablespoon on an ant nest will kill about  a 6 inch spot of grass. (whatever kind is my front lawn) :-(


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## Crane Stoves (May 9, 2012)

ill try the preen in half the area and grass clipping on the other half and test it out....thanks for the idea's and opinions guys!


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## firebroad (May 9, 2012)

I gave up on woodchip mulch.  The bloody sqashbugs and such love to hide in it.  I use peatmoss and leafmould.
Preen is okay for flower beds (so long as you don't sow seeds), and corn gluten is hidiously expensive.  I'll stick to a hoe and pulling.   P.S., I like to use an old butter knife to weed with, it loosens the stubborn roots of weeds when I need precise control.


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## Crane Stoves (May 9, 2012)

firebroad said:


> I gave up on woodchip mulch. The bloody sqashbugs and such love to hide in it. I use peatmoss and leafmould.
> Preen is okay for flower beds (so long as you don't sow seeds), and corn gluten is hidiously expensive. I'll stick to a hoe and pulling. P.S., I like to use an old butter knife to weed with, it loosens the stubborn roots of weeds when I need precise control.


 
you spread bags of peat moss around the garden (to a depth of what?) and does this prevent weeds from forming for the most part???


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## Jack Straw (May 9, 2012)

What chemical do they use to dye black mulch? That stuff worries me in my veggie garden.


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## Dtunes (May 9, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Bark mulch 1) costs money, 2) doesn't break down like leaves do, 3) invariably gets mixed in the top layers of soil- which may or may not cause slight issues. Plus- most people have leaves they need to get rid of- may as well put them to good use.


Also the microbes that decompose wood pull nurtients from the soil, mainly nitrogen. If you use bark mulch or anything with a high level of cellulose youll need extra fertilizer. I would recomend grass clippings leaf mold or even plastic drop cloths on on the pathways.  I know people who use newspaper but id worry about chems.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 9, 2012)

doug crane said:


> you spread bags of peat moss around the garden (to a depth of what?) and does this prevent weeds from forming for the most part???


Peat moss costs money (and has an environmental impact- if you worry about it like I do). Yard waste is free and just as good.


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## Dtunes (May 9, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Peat moss costs money (and has an environmental impact- if you worry about it like I do). Yard waste is free and just as good.


+1 Also peat moss is acidic and will lower the ph of your soil.  Plus unless you wet it really well I think it would blow away since its so light an fluffy.


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## save$ (May 9, 2012)

I like to add mulch, but never around warm wether plants like tomatoes until the ground is warm.  Otherwise the ground may remaine cool way into the summer and heat lovers won't grow much.  As said before, grass and leave clippings are best, but keep them a couple inches away from the plant stocks.  You don't want to make it too easy on the chewing insects and you want to keep the mold of decomposition away from you tender plants.  Wood is a poor choice for mulch unless you are just putting old boards down.  I still opt for the porous ground covers held down with garden staples.  Quick and I don't have to rake it.   Here is another option for easy hoeing.   http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1QBGF28KP69MC6FBTKM4


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## firebroad (May 10, 2012)

(Sigh).  I knew I would be lambasted for using peat moss.  Well, here's the deal:  My father used if all his life with no adverse reactions.  I used it most of my life also, with no adverse reactions.  It is relatively cheap and plentiful, about $7 a 6 cu ft bale.  It has never significantly lowered the Ph of my soil, which is generally Ph neutral.  An addition of lime to the soil will correct this, as well.
Having heard all the horror stories, including the one about it not being environmentally sound, I switched to wood chip mulches and had nothing but troubles.  Recently I went back to sphagnum peat without any adversity. 
I do not spread it over my entire beds, just around certain vegetable crops about and inch or less thick.  It helps keep the moisture from evaporating, the slight acidity keeps weeds and mildew at bay, and it does NOT blow away once it is dampened.  
Bottom line, it works for me.


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## billb3 (May 10, 2012)

Where do you  find 6 cubic foot bales ?
Biggest I find around here is 3 cubic feet and they are 10 bucks.
I get 12 cubic feet every year for ze 12 blueberries bushes.
I still have to add acidifier along with some fertilizer.

I used to add peat moss to our sandy loam but now I have  excess of compost.


Buying wood chips in bags isn't exactly cheap either.
I wait for them to be on sale 4 for ten bucks. I've bought  a truckload but that will last me 2 years and I've had bees in the pile.


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## firebroad (May 10, 2012)

billb3 said:


> Where do you find 6 cubic foot bales ?
> Biggest I find around here is 3 cubic feet and they are 10 bucks.
> I get 12 cubic feet every year for ze 12 blueberries bushes.
> I still have to add acidifier along with some fertilizer.
> ...


WOW.
I used to get peat at a garden place called Meyers down here, but I have been known to find it at Wally World (walmart) and HomeDepot.  You are right, you got to watch for the sales.  I have been known to get woodchips (I do use them for the flower beds) at $3 - $5 a bag in the past, but I am sure that, as well as the peat and other amenities are much higher this year.  I buy and store, as well.
Also--just a thought--When I had strawberries, I used shredded bark and/or pine needles, but only a light layer.  I used newspaper as the main mulch, then covered it with the bark for looks.  Worked quite well.  Probably get a lot of objections to pine needles (they SELL it out west as pinestraw), but haven't had any adverse Ph problems with using that, either.  Like I said, if you soil is acidic, add lime to neutralize.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 10, 2012)

firebroad said:


> (Sigh). I knew I would be lambasted for using peat moss. Well, here's the deal: My father used if all his life with no adverse reactions. I used it most of my life also, with no adverse reactions. It is relatively cheap and plentiful, about $7 a 6 cu ft bale. It has never significantly lowered the Ph of my soil, which is generally Ph neutral. An addition of lime to the soil will correct this, as well.
> Having heard all the horror stories, including the one about it not being environmentally sound, I switched to wood chip mulches and had nothing but troubles. Recently I went back to sphagnum peat without any adversity.
> I do not spread it over my entire beds, just around certain vegetable crops about and inch or less thick. It helps keep the moisture from evaporating, the slight acidity keeps weeds and mildew at bay, and it does NOT blow away once it is dampened.
> Bottom line, it works for me.


 
Nobody lambasted anybody. Folks ask opinions, and we give them.

I like low maintenance, cheap as possible, and enviro friendly- yard waste fits that bill. If someone else has different criteria or a system they don't care to mess with- that's fine


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## firebroad (May 10, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> Nobody lambasted anybody. Folks ask opinions, and we give them.
> 
> I like low maintenance, cheap as possible, and enviro friendly- yard waste fits that bill. If someone else has different criteria or a system they don't care to mess with- that's fine


Sorry AP, perhaps "lambasted" was a bit strong of a word!  A bit of a knee-jerk(emphesis on jerk) reaction...


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## Adios Pantalones (May 10, 2012)

Oh- and anyone that uses peat moss is the debbil.


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## firebroad (May 10, 2012)

That's MRS. Debbil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !!


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## muncybob (May 15, 2012)

Corn gluten was mentioned as being expensive...true, if you buy the commercially bagged stuff. Check with a local feed mill as that's where I get 30lb bags at about $15/bag. Great side benefit is as it decomposes it supplies a good amount of nitrogen. Give it a try if you want to green up your lawn. For weed control though, timing is everything.
I'm a big proponent of mulching. Other than to get the garden started, we rarely water the plants as long as it rains a bit every 10 days or so.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 15, 2012)

muncybob said:


> Corn gluten was mentioned as being expensive...true, if you buy the commercially bagged stuff. Check with a local feed mill as that's where I get 30lb bags at about $15/bag. Great side benefit is as it decomposes it supplies a good amount of nitrogen. Give it a try if you want to green up your lawn. For weed control though, timing is everything.
> I'm a big proponent of mulching. Other than to get the garden started, we rarely water the plants as long as it rains a bit every 10 days or so.


 
Agree with every bit of this. CGM is a fertilizer as well as a pre-emergent


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## lukem (May 15, 2012)

firebroad said:


> When I had strawberries, I used shredded bark and/or pine needles, but only a light layer. I used newspaper as the main mulch, then covered it with the bark for looks. Worked quite well. Probably get a lot of objections to pine needles (they SELL it out west as pinestraw), but haven't had any adverse Ph problems with using that, either. Like I said, if you soil is acidic, add lime to neutralize.


 
My strawberries are doing extremely well mulched in with pine straw several inches thick.  My soil is pretty Ph neutral, so any extra acid isn't hurting them and may even be helping them.


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## firebroad (May 15, 2012)

lukem said:


> My strawberries are doing extremely well mulched in with pine straw several inches thick. My soil is pretty Ph neutral, so any extra acid isn't hurting them and may even be helping them.


At the time where I lived then, there wasn't enough pine needles to do it right.  But I also found pine needled did a wonderful job on clay soil.  Now I have lots of eastern white pine, and use the needles for everything from mulch to garden paths.  But I still like to put an initial layer of newspaper down on a new bed, it seems to help keep the persistant weeds from popping through.


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## Stephen in SoKY (May 17, 2012)

If you want Preen, go to a farm supply store and buy any Treflan product for about 2/3 less than Preen.
If you want Preen Organic, go to any feed mill and get corn gluten meal, less than $10 for 50 lbs.
Be careful with wood chips as they can tie up your available nitrogen and hurt yield on many vegetables.


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## Czech (May 21, 2012)

doug crane said:


> ill try the preen in half the area and grass clipping on the other half and test it out....thanks for the idea's and opinions guys!


 
Do NOT use grass clippings. They will contain the herbicide you put on your lawn for months after cutting (2D4 if you put weed and feed down), and if green they will pull nitrogen from your soil, not the other way around. For leaves, maples tend to be your best bet as they as as close to neutral pH, oak is acidic fyi. My avatar is a 1000lb pumpkin, don't ask how I know!


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## Adios Pantalones (May 21, 2012)

Czech said:


> Do NOT use grass clippings. They will contain the herbicide you put on your lawn for months after cutting (2D4 if you put weed and feed down), and if green they will pull nitrogen from your soil, not the other way around. For leaves, maples tend to be your best bet as they as as close to neutral pH, oak is acidic fyi. My avatar is a 1000lb pumpkin, don't ask how I know!


 
1) not everyone uses herbicide, and 2) grass clippings will pull nitrogen only for a reasonably short time as it's needed to build up soil microbes, then it will act as a nitrogen source, 3) oak leaves will have very limited effect on soil acidity as the tannins leach out pretty quick.

Finished compost has near neutral pH no matter what you put in it- essentially that's what leaves, grass etc turn into over time.

I will say- apply it in thin layers or it clumps, stinks, etc. I actually prefer to mulch it in place on the lawn


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## Czech (May 21, 2012)

Adios Pantalones said:


> 1) not everyone uses herbicide, and 2) grass clippings will pull nitrogen only for a reasonably short time as it's needed to build up soil microbes, then it will act as a nitrogen source, 3) oak leaves will have very limited effect on soil acidity as the tannins leach out pretty quick.
> 
> Finished compost has near neutral pH no matter what you put in it- essentially that's what leaves, grass etc turn into over time.
> 
> I will say- apply it in thin layers or it clumps, stinks, etc. I actually prefer to mulch it in place on the lawn


 
And that's why I said "if you put weed and feed down" in my post. Tell the grass clipping part to any competition grower, they will disagree vehemently. You create competition for any soluble N+, and once bound it is not available for quite some time. Our club currently holds the world record for pumpkins at 1810.5 pounds by a gentleman named Chris Stevens. We're somewhat picky about what goes on the garden, but to each their own.


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## Adios Pantalones (May 21, 2012)

Czech said:


> And that's why I said "if you put weed and feed down" in my post. Tell the grass clipping part to any competition grower, they will disagree vehemently. You create competition for any soluble N+, and once bound it is not available for quite some time. Our club currently holds the world record for pumpkins at 1810.5 pounds by a gentleman named Chris Stevens. We're somewhat picky about what goes on the garden, but to each their own.


 
Maybe it's different if growing competition pumpkins. Grass does fine for normal people growing normal veggies etc.  

I think that everyone knows about the advantages of mulching grass in place on a lawn
http://www.hort.usu.edu/pdf/kelly/nitrogen clippings.pdf

Aside from that, grass clippings provably RELEASE nitrogen.
http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc2004/poster/2/5/2/860_koppk.htm

I'll take the word of published researchers on the issue (as well as my experience):
Overview of use in crops (including corn) with research refs
http://njveg.rutgers.edu/assets/pdfs/soil/fs1023-jhNutrient_Management_of_Land_Applied_Grass.pdf


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## save$ (May 22, 2012)

I don't think that grass or other mulches tie up the nitrogen so long as they remain on top of the soil.  When they get mixed in, Indeed they do tie up the nitrogen until they decompose, then they release the nitrogen back to the soil.  I don't put any muches next to the plants.  too many molds, and chewing critters hide there.  Big thing with mulch is to make sure the soil can breath.  I never work wood chips in as they may take years to decompose and I don't want any dyes in my soil.  peat moss is great.   Most comes from peat bogs in Canada.  it is plant material.


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## btuser (May 23, 2012)

I bag lawn clippings this time of year until the heat slows down the grass.  It goes into the garden and will keep the weeds down, but be warned you're introducing about a zillion weed seeds.  I leave them in a tight pile for a few days before I spread them and they get HOT, like too hot to put your hand in them.  I don't know if it's hot enough to kill the weed seeds but it's worth a shot.


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## laynes69 (May 27, 2012)

I tried preen one year and didn't like it. Some women at work use grass clippings which are placed 6" thick fresh around plants without any effects, while others use cardboard boxes. If the mulch is at the surface I don't see it tying up too much nitrogen. If it's a problem then a little fertilizer when planting goes a long way. We use a very heavy black plastic for melons and onions that reused each year. It doesn't allow moisture to enter so those things are hand watered unless there's some decent rains. Ive also heard of those mulching with compost. Whenever we plant rye for a cover crop it also helps keep weeds to a minimum.


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## Crane Stoves (May 28, 2012)

Is this corn gluten a preemergant just like preen (equal ability to stop weeds from forming?), I have so far bought one roll of that weed block crap (i hate the stuff but ill try it once and see how much a hassle//mess it makes), I bought one container of Preen (stuffs like freeeking gold dust around here at $30 per jug), and im going to try some grass/leaf clippinps from my lawnmower as the third test. Ill let you know how it goes.... thanks to all for the suggestions


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## Adios Pantalones (May 28, 2012)

doug crane said:


> Is this corn gluten a preemergant just like preen (equal ability to stop weeds from forming?), I have so far bought one roll of that weed block crap (i hate the stuff but ill try it once and see how much a hassle//mess it makes), I bought one container of Preen (stuffs like freeeking gold dust around here at $30 per jug), and im going to try some grass/leaf clippinps from my lawnmower as the third test. Ill let you know how it goes.... thanks to all for the suggestions


Don't apply the grass too thick- it can stink and mat up.


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## Don2222 (Jun 1, 2012)

doug crane said:


> I like to hear from anyone who has really used this Garden weed-free product?
> 
> Its VERY expensive and it also scares me because i fear it could "block" growth somehow of your precious veggies?
> 
> ...


 
Hello Doug

Here is what I used from Home Depot and Market Basket.
See Pics and Detail here. I like Weed Block Fabric better than Preen because it lasts LONGER!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/does-weed-block-fabrick-work-mb-has-red-cbm-8-bags-for-10.87206/


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## Crane Stoves (Jun 4, 2012)

i have used the fabric in one veggie garden, the larger veggie garden i used preen on one side, fabric on another. The fabric certainly seems to work (unless theirs weeds underneath im not seeing), the preen seems to be very effective and im impressed after 4 weeks (my concern is how long this magic stuff will last) . 

I pinned down my fabric with long 4 inch roofing nails (i had a huge box i found at the dump and knew they would be handy for something someday) 
Im not sure water penetrates this fabric so easy though because i see it puddle on the surface alot !!?  Im also not sure if it may be better to buy the cheapo fabric and toss it away each year or attempt getting good quality fabric and re-using it each year? does anyone re-use this stuff by trying to roll it back up after the season?


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