# Log splitter wont start.  need some info



## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

So i have been splitting a bunch of wood lately and i was about to start this morning.

I got the old girl running on the 3rd pull or so no problem.  split a few pieces then the splitter died.  i figured it was out of gas.  i refilled and then i tried to restart.  nothing.  didnt want to pull too many times to flood the engine.
i proceeded to clean the plug, check for any leaks, checked oil and added a little.

i went back after that was all done and tried to pull start it, now the i can barely pull the rope start.

how bad is this?

MTD splitter, 26 ton, i think its a briggs and stratton


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## johneh (Nov 1, 2015)

Pull the plug and see how it turns over
Pos hydro lock


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## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

johneh said:


> Pull the plug and see how it turns over
> Pos hydro lock


after taking plug out, i couldnt even pull the pull cord.  im thinking its seized.


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## johneh (Nov 1, 2015)

You may be right
But first try disconnecting the splitter pump
it may be something in the hydraulics
You can buy replacement engines at a
decent price


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## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

not even sure how to disconnect the splitter pump.  i got down to the fly wheel and i couldnt budge it


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## jb6l6gc (Nov 1, 2015)

Ya sounds seized. Could try and spray some deep creep in cylinder but from your description I think she may have ate the rings can you pop head of easily and have a look?


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## melloyello (Nov 1, 2015)

As stated above, first disconnect the pump from the engine. It could be the pump has seized, not the engine. If it turns over without the pump attached then it's not the engine.


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## rygar (Nov 1, 2015)

im gonna look through some manuals and watch some videos about removing the pump.  will be good to know that its the engine for sure.
i think i will need a braker bar or soemthing to get the flywheel off.


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## rowerwet (Nov 1, 2015)

Many people have replaced their motors with the predator Honda clones from HF. Check the pump first though.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 1, 2015)

If you replace the engine pay attention to the shaft length. My MTD Briggs engine had a shaft that was shorter than the HF engine. Easy fix but something to pay attention to.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 1, 2015)

rygar said:


> i think i will need a braker bar or soemthing to get the flywheel off.



A little flywheel puller for that engine will cost ya around ten bucks. Cheaper than trashing the engine prying on the flywheel.


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## pen (Nov 1, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> A little flywheel puller for that engine will cost ya around ten bucks. Cheaper than trashing the engine prying on the flywheel.



Or borrow it from autozone or similar.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 1, 2015)

Yeah I tend to forget that they have those loaners. At nine miles to the gallon with the 454 going and getting it and taking it back costs me more than just firing up amazon.com.


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## pen (Nov 1, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Yeah I tend to forget that they have those loaners. At nine miles to the gallon with the 454 going and getting it and taking it back costs me more than just firing up amazon.com.



I do the same with amazon for many things.  But since the wife drives by an autozone everyday on the way home, there's been more than once she's stopped for me to save us a buck.


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## mwhitnee (Nov 1, 2015)

If you pulled it a few times after it stalled and it cranked ok might not be the motor. The pump may be the problem. 

Probably not the issue but make sure you didn't completely overfill the oil. 

Got a harbor freight motor for mine this year runs great. $100


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## cuttingedge (Nov 2, 2015)

Could also be the recoil starter is bound up. That would be a much easier and cheaper fix.


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## Beer Belly (Nov 2, 2015)

When it died, was it in the middle of splitting ??....could it possibly be the pump is engaged when you're trying to start it ??....make sure the handle is back in the neutral position


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

Beer Belly said:


> When it died, was it in the middle of splitting ??....could it possibly be the pump is engaged when you're trying to start it ??....make sure the handle is back in the neutral position


it was indeed in the middle of splitting.  will try this when i get back home.


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## Jags (Nov 2, 2015)

rygar said:


> it was indeed in the middle of splitting.  will try this when i get back home.



it could be a hydraulic lock.  Cycle the valve forwards and backwards a couple of times, and insure that it is in the middle position when you try to turn over the engine.
I am still unsure of why you have to do anything with the flywheel?? The pump should be mounted on the output shaft via a lovejoy connection.  Remove set screw and slide one half of the lovejoy backwards.  Nothing too it.
If the pump is loose and you still can't turn it over, it sounds like its motor time.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> If you replace the engine pay attention to the shaft length. My MTD Briggs engine had a shaft that was shorter than the HF engine. Easy fix but something to pay attention to.


i already called smallenginewarehouse.com, they have a direct replacement with same shaft for 115.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

Jags said:


> it could be a hydraulic lock.  Cycle the valve forwards and backwards a couple of times, and insure that it is in the middle position when you try to turn over the engine.
> I am still unsure of why you have to do anything with the flywheel?? The pump should be mounted on the output shaft via a lovejoy connection.  Remove set screw and slide one half of the lovejoy backwards.  Nothing too it.
> If the pump is loose and you still can't turn it over, it sounds like its motor time.


you might be onto something.  as soon as splitter stopped.  it was harder and harder and harder to the point where i couldnt pull anymore.   i figure if it seized then it would have just stopped and i wouldnt be able to get any pulls on the splitter.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

ok i did not get a chance to remove the pump from the bottom of the engine.  the control lever was stuck in reverse.  i was able to get it into neutral and tried ot pull start and it barely budged.

***also, was suggested to remove spark plug and then pull start.  i tried with the same result as above.


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## jrems (Nov 2, 2015)

Let me know if you need any help or advice. I'm not far from you. I used to repair small equipment/ hydraulics in a past life. This does sound hydraulic related. I don't think it's the motor.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

jrems said:


> Let me know if you need any help or advice. I'm not far from you. I used to repair small equipment/ hydraulics in a past life. This does sound hydraulic related. I don't think it's the motor.


that is highly appreciated.  my main question is since its a vertical engine, and the pump is right below, when i try to remove the pump will this spill fluid on the ground?


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## jrems (Nov 2, 2015)

Don't remove any lines. Nothing will leak. You are just physically un bolting the whole pump from the engine. Once it's pulled off the shaftof the motor you can give the motor a quick pull with the spark plug out. It should pull right over easily. I have a feeling it's the hydraulic control valve.


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

jrems said:


> Don't remove any lines. Nothing will leak. You are just physically un bolting the whole pump from the engine. Once it's pulled off the shaftof the motor you can give the motor a quick pull with the spark plug out. It should pull right over easily. I have a feeling it's the hydraulic control valve.


when the splitter shut down the valve was in the reverse position. i put it back in neutral


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## jrems (Nov 2, 2015)

Pull the pump. Just have to eliminate one thing at a time.


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## jrems (Nov 2, 2015)

Sound just like this
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jammed-up-husky-22-ton-splitter.88937/


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

jrems said:


> Sound just like this
> https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/jammed-up-husky-22-ton-splitter.88937/


just went outside and pushed the lever to reverse neutral and forward about 5 times and tried to pull and wouldnt budge.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 2, 2015)

Raise your right hand and repeat after me: "That engine is toast.".


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## rygar (Nov 2, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> Raise your right hand and repeat after me: "That engine is toast.".


we will call it tomorrow when i remove the pump.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

here are pictures of where the pump meets engine.  where should i detach?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 3, 2015)

Take those nuts off and the pump will drop down. It is only in contact with the shaft via the Lovejoy coupler between it and the engine.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

sorry for the dumb questions, would rather the knowledgeable assist then me wrecking it further.

do you mean the nuts highlighted red or yellow?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 3, 2015)

The yellow ones.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

BrotherBart said:


> The yellow ones.


ok will do.  will report back in a few


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## Jags (Nov 3, 2015)

Its not a wasted step no matter what the issue.  You would have to do this to replace the engine if that is what the problem is.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

back to report..
i was able to get the pump off and tried ot pull and no luck, as usual i had an issue and had to remove the engine.  now i know how to replace the engine.

with the engine off and me still not being able to pull the cord.  are we now 100% certain its the engine?


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## Jags (Nov 3, 2015)

rygar said:


> back to report..
> i was able to get the pump off and tried ot pull and no luck, as usual i had an issue and had to remove the engine.  now i know how to replace the engine.
> 
> with the engine off and me still not being able to pull the cord.  are we now 100% certain its the engine?



And BrotherBart WINS the internet for a day......


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## mwhitnee (Nov 3, 2015)

Yup BB wins lol.  Now you get to get a nice shiny motor. 

My fuel system was so messed up it wasn't worth even fixing it.  New $100 motor was much easier too.

Remember to give the motor a nice break in.  I used the recommended oil and ran it for 3 hours at varying speeds then drained it while hot.  Then put synthetic in, was worth it as it takes only about a quart.


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## jrems (Nov 3, 2015)

Yeah new motor time. I really thought it was the hydraulic since it didn't lock up solid and could be moved a little. It's also possibly the pull start mechanism. But it's a slim chance. It wouldn't hurt to take it off. What Hp motor is it? I might have a spare.


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## BrotherBart (Nov 3, 2015)

With the close tolerances, when a hydraulic pump goes the whole block usually knows about it.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

jrems said:


> Yeah new motor time. I really thought it was the hydraulic since it didn't lock up solid and could be moved a little. It's also possibly the pull start mechanism. But it's a slim chance. It wouldn't hurt to take it off. What Hp motor is it? I might have a spare.


pretty sure its a 6.5hp vertical engine


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## jrems (Nov 3, 2015)

Post some pics of the engine. I have a 5hp vertical laying around that runs.


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## rygar (Nov 3, 2015)

jrems said:


> Post some pics of the engine. I have a 5hp vertical laying around that runs.


no pictures as i am just too tired after this shitty day.  but here is a picture of the exact engine that is no longer available on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/126T02-0131-Q...p/B0041211BU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

would having a 5HP instead of 6.5HP reduce the tonnage?


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## BrotherBart (Nov 3, 2015)

Can't tell ya going the other way, but going from the 5hp Briggs on mine to the 6.5hp HF didn't change a thing in how my splitter operates. 

And it sounds like he is offering a free engine.


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## Jags (Nov 4, 2015)

If the pump is an 11 GPM pump you would technically be under powered using a 5 hp engine by a fraction.


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## rygar (Nov 4, 2015)

Jags said:


> If the pump is an 11 GPM pump you would technically be under powered using a 5 hp engine by a fraction.


will i be able to use the same coupler with the new engine?  is it easy to remove from pump/engine?
ill say this, i am learning a bunch of stuff from you guys and it is very much appreciated.


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## Jags (Nov 4, 2015)

Yes - as long as shaft diameter of the new engine is the same.  The lovejoy is held to the shaft with two set screws.  Loosen them and tap that half of the lovejoy off of the engine.

ETA - When lining up the new engine and lovejoy connections it is VERY important to have the lovejoy lined up as perfect as possible.  When you get to that point, there are a couple of tricks to help with that.


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## rygar (Nov 4, 2015)

Jags said:


> Yes - as long as shaft diameter of the new engine is the same.  The lovejoy is held to the shaft with two set screws.  Loosen them and tap that half of the lovejoy off of the engine.


great.  to keep things simple i just might go with new engine.  when i called smallenginewarehouse.com  they had an exact replacement with the same shaft.  i figure this will simplify things for simple folk like me.


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## jrems (Nov 4, 2015)

The vertical shaft Briggs motors should have a 7/8" shaft. Horizontals have a 3/4" shaft. I have seen some, but very few vertical 3/4" shaft motors. You are more than welcome to the motor if you want it. I pulled it from a mower that the deck rusted out but it ran great.


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## rygar (Nov 6, 2015)

jrems said:


> The vertical shaft Briggs motors should have a 7/8" shaft. Horizontals have a 3/4" shaft. I have seen some, but very few vertical 3/4" shaft motors. You are more than welcome to the motor if you want it. I pulled it from a mower that the deck rusted out but it ran great.


i really appreciate the offer i just figure for 115 i might as well just buy a new one so i will know that for the next god knows how many years that wont be the problem.  damn nice of you to offer.


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## maple1 (Nov 6, 2015)

Did you also check the pump to make sure it turns OK?

Just thinking it might have locked up first which then killed the engine.


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## rygar (Nov 13, 2015)

sorry for the delay.  i have been in Las Vegas for work.
but my wife did tell me the new engine did come in the other day.  look forward to getting the old lady up and running tomorrow.

hopefully the engine swap should be pretty easy.


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## jrems (Nov 13, 2015)

Spray any bolts now with wd-40. I would also put anti seize and any bolt you need to remove. It will make it easier in the future if you ever need to take it apart again.


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