# Its all got to go!



## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

It all must go not sure if we can get it out of there but where droping the whole place. Triyng Some new chains that I have never use before....Hope your right Lee?


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 27, 2011)

How far are you going?  There are a lot of trees in that first pic.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> How far are you going? There are a lot of trees in that first pic.



Leveling the whole place.


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

How much land area is that roughly?


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> How much land area is that roughly?



2 acer's


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Niiiiice.  :coolsmile: What ya got in there? I'm guessing white oak,honey locust maybe beech for starters.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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Close all ash and locust


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## thewoodlands (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> It all must go not sure if we can get it out of there but where droping the whole place. Triyng Some new chains that I have never use before....Hope your right Lee?




Smokin, looks like a great place to cut, what type of wood is it?  What are the new chains?

Zap


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

zapny said:
			
		

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ash and locust...Lee got me running some oregon chain that he uses.


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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you lucky dawg you lol


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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Hey there is 3 other members that will be in on the harvest.....Any others that need fire wood chime in. Dont think we can move it out of this bottom land now. Unless some one has a small 4x4 I have a wench back-up lol....MMaul has a 4x4 suburan will give it a shot but pretty heavy.

Wish we live closer we match up on life style well lol 2 mills rolling and some one on an edger Priceless!


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Unless some one has a small 4x4 I have a wench back-up lol....MMaul has a 4x4 suburan will give it a shot but pretty heavy.



Maybe Lee will let you test drive that JD in his banner ad.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

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Lee not that cool....See if that logger chain worth the effort. Will have Video with 2 feller droping at one time. See if MMAUL can hang in the pocket?


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## Naandme (Jan 27, 2011)

I can load the small tractor and splitter on the trailer with a couple saws and we can go after it. LOL


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Naandme said:
			
		

> I can load the small tractor and splitter on the trailer with a couple saws and we can go after it. LOL



You got it we will be just off hi way 3 and 950 south of muncie. Right now I have 6 people going and Love to have you and the tractor?


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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You got it bro! That does sound like a great time.We could shoot the sh*t,enjoy the fresh air,get some nice wood & and a day in the woods.Guessing I'm easily 7-800 miles from you,maybe a bit more.Even if I loaded the pickup with the gear,packed a carryon bag with 2 days of clothes sprung for hotel & food (I'm not real big but have a HUGE appetite in wintertime haha),unless I won LOTTO right fast its kinda impractical.Be great if that would happen though. :coolsmile:

A working vacation,you could call it...


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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You get here I will take care of the rest..I hear you about eating like a horse in this cold weather!


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## Naandme (Jan 27, 2011)

Let me know when you guys are cutting!! Hope its Saturday!


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Naandme said:
			
		

> Let me know when you guys are cutting!! Hope its Saturday!



Sunday 9 am sharp! Hard to put it all together on a Saturday. If you go I bet we can Pop on 10 cords or better.


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## Naandme (Jan 27, 2011)

Ok I will check I may have a commentmient but I will try to get out of that to cut wood!


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Naandme said:
			
		

> Ok I will check I may have a commentmient but I will try to get out of that to cut wood!



I think it would be a great time......video of the tree's felling lots of great firewood....Whats not to love here....hoiser hoe down! lol


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

Pics or video,OK guys? We cant be there in person but will be there in spirit so to speak. :coolsmile:


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> Pics or video,OK guys? We cant be there in person but will be there in spirit so to speak. :coolsmile:



Oh Yea there going to be alot of both...I live for this stuff too pic's or it never happened.lol I am visual as well. :coolsmile:


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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I didnt get serious with taking pics until I got my digital in March 04.Never thought about it all those years ago.Had a couple cheap regular cameras & would borrow someone's good 35mm on occasion.I do have 5 pics of wood stacks,1 of shed & 1 of me at parents acreage next to  it all just after my 18th birthday.wow that seems so long ago now lol You always wonder about the 'missed opportunities' of things you didnt snap a photo of.Now my camera is in the truck whenever I leave the house.Always seem to be taking pics of old houses,certain architecture,various trees & animals when I see them even when out running errands or going to work.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

The suburban might be able to pull it out, steep incline. Looks like the skid plates are going to get used on sunday.


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## loon (Jan 27, 2011)

very nice! is there a house going up?

loon


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> The suburban might be able to pull it out, steep incline. Looks like the skid plates are going to get used on sunday.





How many tree's can you fell in say 5 min's. I got a loop of 20 inch new oregan if you want to run it?


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

loon said:
			
		

> very nice! is there a house going up?
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The guy is setting  old school auction barn and this will be parking.


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## Stump_Branch (Jan 27, 2011)

i got your small 4x4. try a jeep diesel on for size with tank treads for tires. i have yanked a garage down with the thing.

only took me 3 hours to get home from work last night. wasnt that i had a problem jsut the folks with grocery getters, getting stuck and in my way. I wonder what they think when i pass them effortlessly?


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

That sounds like a snow machine, I had a wrangler for a couple of years would still love to have it for this job. come to think of it I didnt want to get rid of it, but three kids and a wife will not fit in a wrangler. oh well, everyone will fit in a suburban.


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## Stump_Branch (Jan 27, 2011)

it certainly gets the job done. i dont worry about not being able to get some place. its more like a road tractor. i get odd stares when i am at the pump. people asking me if theres something wrong with the engine all the time. ill get a bigger stove and start using the heating oil for fuel. get the oil man to think wood heat doesnt cut it. hahaha


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Stump_Branch said:
			
		

> i got your small 4x4. try a jeep diesel on for size with tank treads for tires. i have yanked a garage down with the thing.
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> only took me 3 hours to get home from work last night. wasnt that i had a problem jsut the folks with grocery getters, getting stuck and in my way. I wonder what they think when i pass them effortlessly?



Yes that would do the job! I had a 2 door 4-runner for years that would have been perfect as well. Small tractor getherdone to!


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## Backwoods Savage (Jan 27, 2011)

Jay, that all sounds like a good time. Wish I could help but I'll be thinking of you guys having all that fun. Hopefully the snow will hold off. Not sure as I see 2-4" called for us but would not be surprised it we get nothing from it.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Backwoods Savage said:
			
		

> Jay, that all sounds like a good time. Wish I could help but I'll be thinking of you guys having all that fun. Hopefully the snow will hold off. Not sure as I see 2-4" called for us but would not be surprised it we get nothing from it.



Yea we need that quad to pull some loads...Send Wife! lol


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## Stump_Branch (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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have worked on them lots. i hope it was an 80's. 22RE motor is bullet proof, you wont be the first to get some place but youll always get there. was it pre'85? solid front axle? those things are rated on the top ten all time stock 4x4


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Stump_Branch said:
			
		

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It was an 87 with a custom ss soft top 2200r 5 speed.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

Jay if you are offering a brand new chain to use I will gladly borrow it.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> Jay if you are offering a brand new chain to use I will gladly borrow it.



lol Took you awhile.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

Almost missed it. Getting prep done for a special tomorrow, Tuscany Shrimp with Tomato Risotto topped with a Balsamic Glaze.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> Almost missed it. Getting prep done for a special tomorrow, Tuscany Shrimp with Tomato Risotto topped with a Balsamic Glaze.



Work or home?


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

When do we eat? With meals like that,I'll sell a few things quickly today & Friday,then  be there first thing Sunday morning  ;-P


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

> When do we eat? With meals like that,I'll sell a few things quickly today & Friday,then be there first thing Sunday morning ;-P



MMAUL A chef you didn't think this was a rag tag operation did you? lol


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## mecreature (Jan 27, 2011)

That is a pretty sweet payday and a lot of work.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

mecreature said:
			
		

> That is a pretty sweet payday and a lot of work.




How close are you to south Muncie?


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## mecreature (Jan 27, 2011)

Just off 32 west of you... Whitestown..


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

mecreature said:
			
		

> Just off 32 west of you... Whitestown..



Your more than Welcome! State hiway 3 to 950 go east to the first street turn north we are right at the bridge.

half way between muncie and New Castle.


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## mecreature (Jan 27, 2011)

It is very kind of you to offer. The weather looks perfect.


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## Bocefus78 (Jan 27, 2011)

I'll be there....not sure how much help I'll be felling but I do know how to run a camera


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

This is for work, Tomorrow lunch special.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

mecreature said:
			
		

> It is very kind of you to offer. The weather looks perfect.




Sunday at 9:00 a.m. No equiment needed just help split and load. Have a lot more than just this place but be nice to put a big dent in it!


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Just for S & G's,dont think anyone asked - just guessing,how much wood wood you say's on that 2 acres you're harvesting? 30-40 cords? Should be quite a bit going by the the pics


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Niiice.... lol  Never had a catering service in the timber before,unless I brought a thermos of my homemade chili,stew or soup. ;-P


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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Cant get my head around it yet. A Guess would be 20-25. A big day hauling out of there will tell the story. Think the count was over 30 tree's and seem to fall in the 14-20 inch range and 25-40 ft'ers.


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## Thistle (Jan 27, 2011)

Perfect size,not too big,not real tiny either.


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## thewoodlands (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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http://extension.unh.edu/resources/files/Resource001044_Rep1200.pdf


zAP


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> This is for work, Tomorrow lunch special.


Bring the left overs! lol


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

zapny said:
			
		

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Thanks Zap, that would put it more like 15-20 cords.


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## JustWood (Jan 27, 2011)

Eye'd B there if'n it was only a few hours drive ,,,but 7 is a haul.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

Not expecting leftovers. Sorry usually sell out in 2 hours.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

localLEE said:
			
		

> Eye'd B there if'n it was only a few hours drive ,,,but 7 is a haul.



That would definitlee be cool.....Your chains willdefinitleeb there. Does that count?


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> Not expecting leftovers. Sorry usually sell out in 2 hours.



Pack a lunch or work with all guns blazen for 4 stright hours I think we can do it? lol (so far 6 people comfirmed) Thats should be 5 cords 6 people. Splitter may slow us up a bit. May pick-up a few more people. We will Fell them all....


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## Jutt77 (Jan 27, 2011)

Oak, locust and tuscan shrimp?!  Man, your tempting me to make the 18.5 hour drive out there


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

Who's bringing the camera?


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> Who's bringing the camera?



I have one but be good idea to run more than one. What You got?


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## Jags (Jan 27, 2011)

Too much of a drive.  Wish I could be there.  I love work...I can watch it all day long.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> Too much of a drive.  Wish I could be there.  I love work...I can watch it all day long.




LOL We need you and that splitter!


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## Jags (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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 :lol: So THATs how you are, huh?  A chef thats not bringing lunch, loaning chains out, running big saws and your not even gonna let me stand there and watch, with a beer in my hand.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

I'll bring my video camera, you bring your tripod. I dont have one.


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## Jags (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> I'll bring my video camera, you bring your tripod. I dont have one.



I'm mad at you - you could have been the deal maker (with lunch). :coolmad:


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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You bring that fancy splitter and You got it, and the beer's on me....One splitter is going to slow us down some...


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## Jags (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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If it was closer - I would take the drive.

Then reality kicks in - I got about 6 cords sitting in my yard to process myself.


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## Mmaul (Jan 27, 2011)

If an extra splitter is involved, what would you like for lunch. I'll take orders!!


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> If an extra splitter is involved, what would you like for lunch. I'll take orders!!



Holly Smoke there it is Locut Ash and Lunch.................If your close and miss this one better not see a thread on "I may not make it".


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## Jags (Jan 27, 2011)

MMaul said:
			
		

> If an extra splitter is involved, what would you like for lunch. I'll take orders!!



Ohh..Yer KILLING ME.  I wish I could.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Bocefus78,MMAUL,Tidedye65,smokinj and 3 non-members has confirmed. Looking for naandme and mecreture to confirm! 

Don't miss out Equipment Not needed. Splitter and Tractor Would Speed things up!


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## mecreature (Jan 27, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Bocefus78,MMAUL,Tidedye65,smokinj and 3 non-members has confirmed. Looking for naandme and mecreture to confirm!
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I will be there 9AM sharp. I think it might be a take it easy 1 1/2 hour drive due east.

For the education if nothin else... Let me know if I need to bring anything.. tank of gas or something.


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

mecreature said:
			
		

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Sweet tank of gas could be good last time we came out of there with less than 2 oz of fuel...lol will pm you my number!


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## Cowboy Billy (Jan 27, 2011)

Sounds like a great time Jay! Get a plan together before you start cutting. So you can work safe and get in and out without blocking yourselves (been there done that). You will want to have your trials set up so if you have to come back in a week or two for more and it snows you don't hit a stump and hurt you vehicles. I knocked the oil filter off my uncles 255 massy loader tractor once on a stump and the other time pushing limbs into the woods. Its hard to push the clutch in when there's hot engine oil spraying on the clutch and your leg! Be safe I wish I could be out there with you!

Billy


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## smokinj (Jan 27, 2011)

Cowboy Billy said:
			
		

> Sounds like a great time Jay! Get a plan together before you start cutting. So you can work safe and get in and out without blocking yourselves (been there done that). You will want to have your trials set up so if you have to come back in a week or two for more and it snows you don't hit a stump and hurt you vehicles. I knocked the oil filter off my uncles 255 massy loader tractor once on a stump and the other time pushing limbs into the woods. Its hard to push the clutch in when there's hot engine oil spraying on the clutch and your leg! Be safe I wish I could be out there with you!
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Wish you where to billy....Be at this site 4 times now splitting big piles of rounds off of there. Think a tree company was dumping there. Got it well map out even down the the felling directions. Stumps will be taken as we go.


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## Flatbedford (Jan 28, 2011)

Sounds like fun. Too far away for me.


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Flatbedford said:
			
		

> Sounds like fun. Too far away for me.



Sould get enough pic's and video's to feel like you where there...lol Darn sure love to have you with that truck to fill...

My saw's are ready just tune them all up and new chains for the gtg.....Ran out of fuel on the 880 and running veggie oil but its still cold enough....


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## thewoodlands (Jan 28, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Smokin, how about putting up the menu for Sunday that way some of us can just show up for the food.


Zap


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## Thistle (Jan 28, 2011)

zapny said:
			
		

> Smokin, how about putting up the menu for Sunday that way some of us can just show up for the food.
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+1


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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lol MMAUL the Chef  and +2


Update on the menu....MMaul said food if the 2nd splitter comfirm and showed up....No Comfrim on 2nd splitter....Who going to make HIM COOK????????????


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Daily Details for
Anderson, IN (46017) 
[ English | Metric ]  

ourly Forecast    Sunday cutting forcast....Doesnt get any better!  

25Â°F 

Feels Like
18Â°F  
 9 am  

25Â°F 

Feels Like
17Â°F  
 12 pm  

28Â°F 

Feels Like
20Â°F  
 Additional Hourly Forecast Not Available.  
Day Night 



AM Clouds / PM Sun High
30Â°F

Precip
20% 

Wind: From NNE at 9 mph  
Humidity: 84% 
UV Index: 2 Low 


Sunrise: 7:53 AM ET 
Avg. High: 34Â°F 
Record High: 57Â°F (1953) 



Partly Cloudy Overnight Low
20Â°F

Precip
20% 

Wind: From NE at 10 mph  
Humidity: 82% 


Sunset: 5:59 PM ET 
Avg. Low: 19Â°F 
Record Low: -11Â°F (1966) 



Last Updated Friday, Jan 28, 12:05 PM Eastern Standard Time


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## thewoodlands (Jan 28, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> Daily Details for
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Better get it done plus out of there, the storm is heading your way.

ZapUweather


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

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Zap says the bad weather coming in so come and stock- up!  Normally right on.........


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## Jags (Jan 28, 2011)

Yay - its gonna get real cold again. :long:


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## thewoodlands (Jan 28, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> Yay - its gonna get real cold again. :long:



Except for the cold we've been lucky this winter with most of the storms staying south of us but we'll get ours sooner or later.



Zap


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Thistle said:
			
		

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Update on the menuâ€¦.MMaul said food if the 2nd splitter comfirm and showed upâ€¦.No Comfrim on 2nd splitterâ€¦.Who's going to make HIM COOK????????????

So far the line up of saw's 1-880, 1-460, 3-361's(thats a big # there),1-192t and One 27 ton Splitter!
6 trucks and trailer's and 7 manpower.

2 feller
4 buckers
3 spliter crew


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## mecreature (Jan 28, 2011)

This should be very interesting... 

pm sent


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

mecreature said:
			
		

> This should be very interesting...
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Oh, I was running landscap crew's trimming tree back in the middle 80's(15 year run). MMaul and I will do all the felling. Just need to place two bucker's and one on the splitter.

I have 2 on the splitter now. Needing 1


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## Bocefus78 (Jan 28, 2011)

In case it isn't loud enough I will bring a  mccullough sp60 along. It's still fun though slow and heavy.


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Bocefus78 said:
			
		

> In case it isn't loud enough I will bring a  mccullough sp60 along. It's still fun though slow and heavy.




Nice! That will be fun..Your running a 361 right? And how long you been running saws?


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## Bocefus78 (Jan 28, 2011)

Yes...and  ms180 limber. Honestly got into saws just 2 years ago.thats why I'm not into felling just yet.


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Bocefus78 said:
			
		

> Yes...and ms180 limber. Honestly got into saws just 2 years ago.thats why I'm not into felling just yet.



Ok, You are going to be a bucker! Bring them ready to go chains sharp gas oil and clean air filters wedges. If you want to drop a few for the experience I will walk you through every step. Thats how MMAUL Started.


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## Jags (Jan 28, 2011)

You guys are making me jealous.  This sounds like more of a party than work.  And I like to party more than work.


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

> You guys are making me jealous.  This sounds like more of a party than work.  And I like to party more than work.



If I can get a confirm on you and the splitter MMAUL Cooking!


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## Jags (Jan 28, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

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Not gonna happen Jay.  I was so interested that I checked into it and it is a 300 mile 5 hr trip - one way.  300 miles pulling my trailer w/log splitter will drink enough dino wine that I could buy a half cord delivered. :lol:

600 miles and 10 hours of drive ain't something I want to tack onto a busy day of making firewood.  (and I HAVE to be back on Mon.)


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## Bocefus78 (Jan 28, 2011)

I'll drop some w. Some help. Heck yea.  I'm getting all my stuff gathered right now. Stupid new smartphone and this thread is holding me up.
  Lol.


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Jags said:
			
		

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MMaul a good Chef lol


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

Bocefus78 said:
			
		

> I'll drop some w. Some help. Heck yea.  I'm getting all my stuff gathered right now. Stupid new smartphone and this thread is holding me you.  Lol.



It up to you there all stright forward. Be there to check every cut and will even hang in the pocket with You...lol


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## smokinj (Jan 28, 2011)

If anyone needs chains sharpen be at my place by 8:00 A.M. I got a Guy...With Cyclone wheel and 511a lol


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## FireAnt (Jan 29, 2011)

Have a good time guys.....Man I wish I was close... sounds like fun!!


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 29, 2011)

smokinjay said:
			
		

> If anyone needs chains sharpen be at my place by 8:00 A.M. I got a Guy...With Cyclone wheel and 511a lol



I've got to go to the Smokin school of Sharpenin.  I don't get the results I should and I know its not the 511s fault.


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## smokinj (Jan 29, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

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You Have one?


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## SolarAndWood (Jan 29, 2011)

I inherited a 511a and the chain tools.  Need to spend some time and get it set up right and learn how to operate it properly.  Hasn't been a priority as I don't cut a whole lot anyway and the house project has been all consuming.


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## smokinj (Jan 29, 2011)

SolarAndWood said:
			
		

> I inherited a 511a and the chain tools.  Need to spend some time and get it set up right and learn how to operate it properly.  Hasn't been a priority as I don't cut a whole lot anyway and the house project has been all consuming.



There a cake walk. If you watch close you will see I tap the chain 3-4 times my left hand is on the chain. On last final tap its dead on the money. Grinding stones I use the cool grind.


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## smokinj (Jan 29, 2011)

Ok My place 8:00-8:30 or Site 9:00am Will be pic's and video to prove it! 950 and hiway 3.


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## Bocefus78 (Jan 29, 2011)

Test fired, Sharp, and ready. see u round 8.


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## smokinj (Jan 30, 2011)

Running with a name like Bocefus78 from nobletucky, where going to cut are way to the splitter crew. Then put the saw's up (after you run the 880) start stacking and pop a cold one in less than 2-1/2 hrs. 3 guys bucking with a 460, 2- 361's, 1-180, 1-192t. 880 to made sure the job gets done. Nothing like a good saw line-up! We lost a 361 and bucker.


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## ISeeDeadBTUs (Jan 30, 2011)

LOL Jay went to bed at 7:30 :coolsmirk: 

It's 6:30 already this morning, get yer coffee and get 'a cuttin'


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## smokinj (Jan 30, 2011)

ISeeDeadBTUs said:
			
		

> LOL Jay went to bed at 7:30 :coolsmirk:
> 
> It's 6:30 already this morning, get yer coffee and get 'a cuttin'





lol Bring on the COFFEE! Still dark and the beer ran out sometime around 11:00pm


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## Thistle (Jan 30, 2011)

Dont forget plenty of batteries for the camera's.... ;-)


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## MillHeat (Jan 30, 2011)

Wheres the update pics?


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## thewoodlands (Jan 31, 2011)

Mill_Heat said:
			
		

> Wheres the update pics?




He started another thread.


Zap


https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/69869/


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