# C.B. 5036 or new E- Classic 2300?



## Johnbull (Jun 3, 2008)

Hypothetically speaking (after considering numerous makes/models and helpful posts on this site) if I concluded that I would like to purchase a Central Boiler would a price difference of $3,400 more for the E-Classic 2300 be offset by the reported increased efficiency, reduced smoking and decreased wood consumption?

Seeking any helpful comments or observations.

Craig in Central PA


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## muncybob (Jun 4, 2008)

The way I would be looking at it is how much more time for payback on the investment assuming smoke and the extra "excercise" you'll get on a less efficient unit is not an issue either way? $3400 will take a few more heating seasons to reach payback, of course it all depends on actual usage. My "worse case" scenario is I would go through a tri-ax load of wood per season @ $700/load plus cutting splitting. That's a lot of wood and I hope I burn much less, but I figure if I only spend apprx. $700/yr. and apply that to the total cost of purchase/install of the wood boiler I know the max. time it will take for my payback. 

Is the extra $3400 up front worth it to you to save on manual labor, less wood storage needed and fewer trips to load wood? Where in PA are you(we are near Williamsport)?? Have you checked on wood pricing there or can you get it for "free"?

Welcome to the forum...I'm fairly new here too and have learned a lot in the last few weeks


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## heaterman (Jun 4, 2008)

What about considering the unseen cost of excess emissions, consuming more resources (even if they are cheap) life cycle cost of the product and other things of that nature? 

Making decisions based solely on what is the cheapest way to do things is why this country is in the financial shape it's in right now.  I realize these are philosophical arguments but we all need to make choices that are good not only for us but also the environment and our fellow man. 

The soap box is now open


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## muncybob (Jun 4, 2008)

Totally agree with you heaterman. I am of the same opinion and values on this but I did not want to assume Johnbull was in the same frame of mind. Even though my nearest neighbor is well over a mile away that would be affected by my emissions I will want to keep smoke/emissions to a minimum. Something else for Johnbull to consider is what(if any) current restrictions or pending regulations are in effect in his area. Some municipalities are taking a logical approach to this and then you have our township that states can only burn untreated wood(so far so good) and must have a chimney at least 20' tall(what!!??). So I asked if my wood burner exceeded EPA standards and produced very little visible smoke and I have no neighbors with 1/4 mile do I still need the 20' chimney and the answer was yes! I asked what drugs were they on when the came up with these reg's and of course got no reply(at least he didn't hang up on me!).


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## Johnbull (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.  I am blessed with free wood from my own property. I do want to conserve the resource as much as possible as I also have two friends that have cut wood for many years from the acerage. While neighbors have been wood burners for years and I would not forsee a "smoke" issue one never knows what the future holds. The decrease in wood consumption, the reported increased efficiency and corresponding reduction in smoke and release into the atmosphere are all positives. The point made about the reduced consumption of wood necessary is a strong plus in my book- even with free wood.

The problem is that no one in my immediate area has even seen one of the new E-Classics and that includes the local distributor. The gasification seems to be the logical way to go and my wife is on board with me on this one as it concerns paying more now for a superior technology and product- if in fact they live up to their "certification" claims regarding EPA.

I live in an township which currently has no ordinances regulating outdoor furnaces but due to development and growth in what was mostly farm ground the opposition may build to regulate. IMHO it appears that Central Boiler threw itself into developing a gasifier in order not to be shut out of the New England market due to EPA issues. That would have created a domino effect in other states. I am uncomfortable "trustng they (Central Boiler) got it right" in the redevelopment. An boiler inside the home is not an option for me so I am settled on an outside unit.

Craig
AKA: Johnbull
Martinsburg,PA


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## muncybob (Jun 4, 2008)

Is a gassifier in it's own insulated "shed" a possibility?? This is something I'm keeping an open mind on as I too do not want to be one of the first to buy a new and relatively untested product!


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## Johnbull (Jun 4, 2008)

Come to think of it, why wouldn't a Tarm or someother comparable indoor furnace housed in a small "shed" (think outhouse design) work? Has anyone tried that alternative?


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## twofer (Jun 4, 2008)

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. We are getting ready to begin building our home and I'm trying to decide between the CB5036 and an EKO unit. I like the Central Boiler because I can keep the mess outside and use a little bit wetter wood in a pinch. The EKO unit I like for the higher efficiency and not having to worry about it getting regulated out of commission. I was looking at the E-2300 but found out that it is about $3500 more than an CB5036 or an EKO unit.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 4, 2008)

JB- lots of folks with Tarm-type boilers have them installed in the garage.  No reason I can think to not put it in a shed- need power.


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## muncybob (Jun 4, 2008)

I see the comment about using OWB in relationship to green or wet wood with the implication that the same cannot be used in a gassifier....but in reality can't both use this wood and won't both suffer the same trade off in efficiency in the same way?? At first I thought green/wet wood was a no no in gassers due to system incompatibility but I'm not so sure on that. I hopefuly will be buying an efficent boiler that can take green wood "in a pinch".


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## twofer (Jun 4, 2008)

Adios Pantalones said:
			
		

> JB- lots of folks with Tarm-type boilers have them installed in the garage.  No reason I can think to not put it in a shed- need power.



Sorry, I'm trying not to thread-jack but that I am *very* interested in. If I could get an EKO unit in the garage it would probably seal the deal.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 4, 2008)

twofer said:
			
		

> Adios Pantalones said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can I get a commission from EKO?  

From their site

"Boiler placing. 

Boiler can be placed in the heating room, basement, or in an outside wood storage building. There should be enough space to accommodate fuel storage for the whole heating season. "


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## Johnbull (Jun 4, 2008)

Must be cautious of insurance issues. Many companies will not permit in the garage.


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## leaddog (Jun 4, 2008)

Johnbull said:
			
		

> Come to think of it, why wouldn't a Tarm or someother comparable indoor furnace housed in a small "shed" (think outhouse design) work? Has anyone tried that alternative?


I have my eko80 in a shed 100ft from the house. Alot of people are putting them in sheds, garages (with sealed off boiler rooms), pole buildings and my favorite is shipping containers. All the boiler has to be is protected from the elements. In fact I feel outside in a shed is the ideal place as you get rid of the smoke dirt and fire danger out of the house.
leaddog


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## flyingcow (Jun 5, 2008)

I just got my quote from my local Classic dealer on the ECL-2300. :bug: $12,000 +. He allows that these are performing very well. Which i know him personally and believe him. Tells me lower amount of wood used compared to old systems, and cleaner systems. These are mandated by our new emissions rules.
    But, since I have a 24x36 garage that is insulated, I'm looking into a Tarm or = equipment. I can reclassify the garage as a wood storage building, build a utility room for the furnace and it should be a win win. The garage is only about 25ft from the house and I'll probably put the water storage tank in the basement. For about the same kinda money, and I think will be a better system. Should use significantly less wood.
    Just stumbled across  this board today....great site....should be very helpful in my decisions.


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## Willman (Jun 5, 2008)

> The soap box is now open smile



As with any purchase there are up front and tangible costs as well as back end and intangible costs. A lot of times its usually the long way that is actually the shortest. Or as is said slower is faster. Concerning your or anyone else's "free " wood supply, I am rather suspect of that term. Surely there are taxes on the land where said trees reside.Even if on a tree growth program. Also insurance is required on any property if one is concerned with keeping what is rightfully their own. Also to be considered is the interest on the mortgage as well as the principle that has to be satisfied.

If you go with the "more" expensive unit and your wood consumption is less you can always sell some surplus wood to accelerate the payback on the unit.

IMHO mine or my family's comfort in our home is the first part of a sometimes complex equation. That being stated we also have to be mindful of our neighbors. Hence the current wave of legislation concerning dirty burning outdoor primary combustion wood boilers.

 And yes we as a country are in the place we are due to the past (maybe changing though) mind set many have had.


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## Adios Pantalones (Jun 5, 2008)

"Surely there are taxes on the land where said trees reside."

Are you suggesting that people that happen to have the land anyway should just sell it off?


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## Nofossil (Jun 5, 2008)

I'll add my vote to the chorus for a well-proven gasifier in an insulated outbuilding or annex. Most gasifiers are well-behaved enough to be able to live indoors, but if you want to keep the wood mess outdoors, then the outbuilding approach makes sense. If you can put storage indoors, so much the better. Note that the creosote and chimney fire hazard is virtually eliminated with a gasifier. As far as green wood goes, it's much better and more efficient to burn seasoned wood in any boiler. It's not that the gasifier would get worse efficiency than any other boiler when burning green wood, it's that you're wasting the much greater potential efficiency that it could be getting.

On the economics side of the equation, you might be able to find folks who would cut, split, and stack your wood in exchange for half of it. With the gasifier, you only need half of it anyway. If you've already got a woodlot you could be looking at wood heat for almost zero labor, without taking any more trees than you would need otherwise.


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## Johnbull (Jun 5, 2008)

I think I'm changing my mind once again. Now I'm thinking hard about an EKO, Tarm  or similar product in a nice enclosure outside but without storage at the present time simply due to the cost. If I have a chance to catch my breath from all of the options with wood burning furnaces perhaps I could construct a homemade storage system.


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## muncybob (Jun 5, 2008)

Johnbull said:
			
		

> I think I'm changing my mind once again. ....... If I have a chance to catch my breath from all of the options with wood burning furnaces .



I know EXACTLY how you feel I think I've changed my mind/plans more times than my wife changes clothes before we go out for the night!


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## intc97 (Jun 5, 2008)

I also have been changing my mind alot but the longer I wait, I find prices going up and delivery dates getting longer. At least I have been cutting wood. I originally wanted a wood gun but the price kept going up, the delivery date went from 4 weeks to 12 weeks and it would have cost $1400.00 to have it delivered from PA to upstate NY. I will probably go wit the CB 6048. I know I will burn more wood but I have alot of land with alot of tress that I would like to cull. I have no neighbors and there are no regulations as of yet. The idea of burning grey birch and popple instead of chipping the woods and making a mess appeals to me. Like I posted today, the E Classic is brand new and I don't want to be one of the first ones to have problems. Eventually I intend to have some storage and set up solar panels for domestic hot water in the summer. Also the idea of burning larger pieces of unsplit wood sounds appealing.


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## Johnbull (Jun 5, 2008)

I was going to start cutting wood but didn't know which length to cut without knowing which furnace I'm going to shove it into!


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## twofer (Jun 5, 2008)

I am in the same boat as you guys. I'm leaning toward an EKO unit but am concerned about getting a storage tank. All the local propane places I called no longer sell used tanks for liability reasons which means I'm not sure what to do about a storage tank. I'm also concerned about placing the unit in the basement because there is no easy access to get it back out if there is a problem. The cost of building the home prohibits building an external building so that idea is out as well. This really seems like the solution I'm looking for but there are some serious hurdles that keep nagging me to just go with an OWB.


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## Jeffo (Jul 26, 2008)

I am in the the plumbing and heating business. I've been through (in business) two energy crisis(70's and 80's). I didn't burn any wood in my life until the last two years. I can not heat my whole house with a very efficient wood stove because of the layout. I sold HS Tarm MB 55's in the 1980's. The problem is, as with any pressurized system, is warm or mild weather is overheat service problems (not to mention creosote or short burn times). Relief valves open, pipes bang, water spews out, the service man can't be reached at night or on weekends. I have ordered an E-Classic 2300 because of new emission standards, less wood consumption, and if anybody tells you that a storage tank solution is the answer, you are being fed a sales pitch. I installed storage tanks, both atmospheric and pressurized back in the 80's, they take up too much room, very,very expensive and do not have the true storage capacity as an outside wood boiler (450 gallons). I did not decide to purchase an OWB on a whim, I have a lot of experience and did a lot of research. I would love to have a boiler that I could throw just about any piece of wood in, but it makes sense to comply with the 2010 EPA standards now. Hopefully the E-Classic will do the job!


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## machinistbcb (Jul 26, 2008)

jeffo,      What do you mean by  "true storage capacity"?    I have 1500 gallons set-up with my Tarm.


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## jgrimm (Jul 29, 2008)

For all of your contemplating garage installation, National Fire Code states:

"solid fuel-burning appliances shall not be installed in any residential garage or in any location were gasoline or any other flammable vapors or gases are likely to be present."


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## akpilot (Sep 19, 2008)

I have a CB 5036 on order, wasn't able to put in a gasifier in the garage because State Farm said they wouldn't insure the house.


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## ManiacPD (Sep 19, 2008)

On the E-Classic, has anyone challenged the "efficiency approaching 100%" claim they make on this thing?  I looked at the brochure and it explains the 3-stage burn process and, among other things, how it can heat your swimming pool.  Anyone got the backup data on this?


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## SE Iowa (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm struggling to make the jump too.  I like the IDEA of a gasifier but there are many pro's and con's. 
Gasifier pro's;
     More Efficient
     Less emisions
     Less wood

Con's;
     Cost more (big concern as payback is long even for OWB)
     Extra cost in construction of shed
     Extra cost of storage (unless Garn or E-2300 used, but then they are more $ too)
     More complicated design and controls (d/t non-integrated storage)
     More tempermental in operation (i.e. drier wood, tailored wood loading during mild weather)
                        -Note, my wife WILL not want to learn (did not say can't learn)

I guess FOR ME it is like upgrading your car from an SUV.  You can go with a Hybrid Prius or a Corolla; both are better than the former (from a fuel consumption basis), but can you afford (or do you need to afford) the hybrid??  IMO the wise thing to do is what you can best afford on your budget as well as work loads etc.  You may find that oil is the best for you (for now at least).  Good luck in your decision.  I hope someday to join the wood boiler group but for now NG is most efficient in my setting, but I do see the writing on the wall.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 19, 2008)

Where is Martinsburg Pa.? My dealer is expecting one around the first of Oct., is in Capon Bridge W.V, 25 mi. west of I-81...Jake and Audrey's Farm and Garden, 304-856-1115


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 19, 2008)

OOps!...E-Classic that is...


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## 55Razor (Sep 19, 2008)

Here are some pictures of my Tarm outside installation. I'm going into my 3rd. season with this arrangement, and am still very happy with my decision to "keep everything outside", and with my choice of a Tarm gasifier.


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## corvett1 (Sep 22, 2008)

55razor, if you could answer a few questions, I would like to know how much wood you burn in a season, and how many sq. ft. you are heating. Also how well does the Tarn work without heat storage. Thanks.


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## 55Razor (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm heating a 1400 sq. ft. ranch, with a full, heated basement, and average to above-average insulation for a 20 year old house. Last year I used approximately 3.5 cords, (13-14 face cords) of mostly Oak, though it could have used more seasoning. I'm hoping to cut down on that amount by managing  my wood supply better. I run the boiler output through a water-to-air exchanger in the bonnet of my regular furnace. So far, this all works well, keeping the house at 70 deg. (our choice). It is a little harder to control the system without storage, especially in the first and latter parts of the heating season when you need to think about and work towards matching the boiler output to the minimal heat loads required during those times. This is where/when storage would be most beneficial, but I certainly wouldn't be afraid to start without it.


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## corvett1 (Sep 22, 2008)

How many times a day on average would you say you have load it with wood.


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## 55Razor (Sep 22, 2008)

I average about 3 times a day. Once at 6:00 am; then my wife checks/ loads at about 2:00 pm, and then I load it for the night at about 10:00 pm.


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## antos_ketcham (Sep 23, 2008)

FWIW - I have been running my E-Classic for two months now and have been pretty happy with it. It burns much cleaner than the old CB I had. Sure it still smokes some of the time, but the smoke is thinner and seems to dissipate more readily. When the unit is idling there is generally nothing visible from the stack. So far due to minimal heat demand I have been filling the unit half full on Wednesday and Saturday nights and that has been fine for DHW and the few times the heat has kicked on with some of the cold nights in recent weeks. 

Pete


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