# A Fresh Eko 40 with 500 gal Storage Install



## Franzen105 (Oct 31, 2011)

Hello. This is my very first post!  Working on installing a Eko 40 with a 500 gal lp for hot storage.  The preivous owners had a eko 40 installed but they were losing the house and sold it in a auction.  They had the eko 40 plumed into a 40 gal lp hot water heater. Upon buying the place we knew we wanted another wood boiler so we ended up installing a Emprye Elite 100.  Come to find out later that the pole barn house on slab that is 3000 sq- all the infloor tubing was installed as a "large sand mass system". Pretty much saying there was no insulation under the cement only around the perimeter and the pex tubes are buried in the sand below the cement.  The Emprye Elite just did not have the btu/ or suppy to meet the demand of this large mass system.
    So after many days of research and this  great website, we are going to roll the dice again.  Hopefully we have the right tools for the job
Thanks


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## Singed Eyebrows (Oct 31, 2011)

Hi, Welcome, Before you frame the tank in too fancy you might want to allow for stacking another tank on top of it. The 40 is a powerfull boiler, Randy


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## Gasifier (Oct 31, 2011)

Welcome Franzen,

Congrats on the new boiler man! Keep us posted on your install with pictures. Don't forget ball valves on both sides of anything you may need to replace or work on. A ball valve or two and short section of pipe(s) for anything you may add to the system in the future (Domestic hot water, another tank, etc.).; A boiler protection valve for return water.  How much dry wood do you have ready? Are you going to heat your DHW? Have a good one.


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## mr.fixit (Oct 31, 2011)

Welcome Franzen,looks like your system is pretty close to mine.
I like mine,it heats over 4000 sq. ft. on around 10 cord give or take depending on the winter.
Did you add additional insulation besides the foam around the tank?


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## timberr (Nov 1, 2011)

Welcome to wood burning club Franzen. The oil man looses another customer, too bad!


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## Fred61 (Nov 1, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Hello. This is my very first post! Working on installing a Eko 40 with a 500 gal lp for hot storage. The previous owners had a eko 40 installed but they were losing the house and sold it in a auction. They had the eko 40 plumed into a 40 gal lp hot water heater. Upon buying the place we knew we wanted another wood boiler so we ended up installing a Emprye Elite 100. Come to find out later that the pole barn house on slab that is 3000 sq- all the infloor tubing was installed as a "large sand mass system". Pretty much saying there was no insulation under the cement only around the perimeter and the pex tubes are buried in the sand below the cement. The Emprye Elite just did not have the btu/ or suppy to meet the demand of this large mass system.
> So after many days of research and this great website, we are going to roll the dice again. Hopefully we have the right tools for the job
> Thanks


I hope you're doing the right thing. You've got me concerned. If the issue is truly just needing more horsepower, that's fine. However if the sand bed is wet or hemorrhaging heat for any other reason, just throwing more heat energy at it is going to be a loosing proposition. Perhaps you will make it work or perhaps it will also suck up all the horse power the eko will produce. I hope for your sake, it will work and not be a wood hog and will be heating the neighbor's lawn down the road. Do your experimenting and put _"abandon in-floor heat"_ on your list of alternatives.

_Remember any heat lost to the ground is lost forever. _ I'm going to think negative on this issue.


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## rkusek (Nov 1, 2011)

Ditto on abandoning the poorly designed floor heat if it doesn't work.  Deerefanatic on here tried to use the previous owners floor system also installed incorrectly and his Eko 60 couldn't do it between the tremendous heat loss to the ground and wet wood.  If the shed is insulated decently just make your own water to air heater using a truck radiator or an old a/c or heatpump outdoor condenser like I did.  I foolishly spent $100 to replace the fan motor with a 120Vac with different speeds.  Even the lowest speed is way to much.  Just circulating water through it keeps my shed warm.  With the fan running it takes 180* water and it comes out ice cold.  The thing can pretty much handle the full output of my Eko 40.  A household box fan on top of it is all I plan to use this year if that


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## Gasifier (Nov 1, 2011)

Come to find out later that the pole barn house on slab that is 3000 sq- all the infloor tubing was installed as a â€œlarge sand mass systemâ€. Pretty much saying there was no insulation under the cement only around the perimeter and the pex tubes are buried in the sand below the cement. 

I can not believe they installed it that way. Why would they do that? Was this done a long time ago? Did they not know how to do in-floor heating?


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## Fred61 (Nov 1, 2011)

There was a time way back when the solar rage started (remember Mother Earth News) that people thought the earth beneath your heated space would store the heat and it would come back to you. Those hippies are still shrugging their shoulders and asking *WTF man* while still looking for that heat.


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## goosegunner (Nov 1, 2011)

Fred61 said:
			
		

> There was a time way back when the solar rage started (remember Mother Earth News) that people thought the earth beneath your heated space would store the heat and it would come back to you. Those hippies are still shrugging their shoulders and asking *WTF man* while still looking for that heat.




That's some funny sheeet!

gg


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## slowzuki (Nov 2, 2011)

In the right soil conditions you can omit insulation below a slab.  But it has to be the right conditions which rarely exist.  For the cost, insulate below a new slab so it works no matter what.


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## Fred61 (Nov 2, 2011)

slowzuki said:
			
		

> In the right soil conditions you can omit insulation below a slab.  But it has to be the right conditions which rarely exist.  For the cost, insulate below a new slab so it works no matter what.


The thing is that those soil conditions are in the Sahara Desert. I have a 20' X 20' steel carport that I use for a woodshed. It is on one foot of crushed stone. If I piled sand in it 8' high in the center and let it set for 6 months or longer, I could dig in less than a foot and it would be wet. Live sand, which you wouldn't use under a slab, would only be a little dryer.

A 6 mil poly vapor barrier is just as important as the insulation as well as site preparation to keep any moisture to a minimum.


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## slowzuki (Nov 2, 2011)

I've got 10 mil poly then a 12" sandbed topped by my slab.  The sand took a while to dry, about a year, but it is dry now (I have a 30x30 access). I have 4" xps perimeter and 4 ft of 2" xps wing insulation, and 1" xps underslab in the living areas.  If the infloor heat has no covering ie running at 75-80 F and you're on dry sand, no sub surface flow (we have 6 ft deep french drains under the perimeter) you can make it work in some climates.

Without the details it is faster and cheaper to just put 1 or 2" xps under the whole slab and it will always work.  I had no money at the time so did the calcs and spent the money on under slab insulation in the higher heated space.  Just by chance I was given more than enough 2.75" xps to do the whole slab for free about a year later.  Little tough to retrofit.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 4, 2011)

The Emypre with 40 gal of Storage via hot water heater would heat about 2 zones out of 10 with 130 degree  supply water. Our Slab is 3000 sq feet but only 1300 ft is living space and other 1700 is shop/garage. So i am crossing my fingers that the Eko 40 with 500 gal with be able to heat at least our living space and the Shop would just be a bonus.  We also blew about 20 inches of Insulation in the attic after finding out the was only 6 inch batts up there..  The insulation as helped huge already.   
   I do plan on stuffing my heat storage box full of insulation. The walls are 2 layers of the 2 inch r-10 board foam. Just wanted to get the plumbing done first and pressure checked and leak free.  The Plumbing is done besides the hot water filter housing i am waiting for.

  So i Just have a NEWB question that i hate to ask.

  But wondering were the best place to put the AquaStat for the Boiler???. I see some people have it on the top of the supply??  Or should it go on my tank!!?? Sorry if this is a really dumb question. All this is very new to me!


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## Franzen105 (Nov 4, 2011)

I have about 8 full cords split and stacked hopefully will be ready to go. Already have 3 cords started for next year!






			
				Gasifier said:
			
		

> Welcome Franzen,
> 
> Congrats on the new boiler man! Keep us posted on your install with pictures. Don't forget ball valves on both sides of anything you may need to replace or work on. A ball valve or two and short section of pipe(s) for anything you may add to the system in the future (Domestic hot water, another tank, etc.).; A boiler protection valve for return water.  How much dry wood do you have ready? Are you going to heat your DHW? Have a good one.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 4, 2011)

Actually was done by a PRO in 1998.  hopefully it works !
Home owner before who is now my neighbor said his eko worked great before, it actually was to warm, probably because it was plumbed diretly into a 40 gal hot water heater then right in to the floor.. Fingers Crossed!!



			
				Gasifier said:
			
		

> Come to find out later that the pole barn house on slab that is 3000 sq- all the infloor tubing was installed as a â€œlarge sand mass systemâ€. Pretty much saying there was no insulation under the cement only around the perimeter and the pex tubes are buried in the sand below the cement.
> 
> I can not believe they installed it that way. Why would they do that? Was this done a long time ago? Did they not know how to do in-floor heating?


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## Gasifier (Nov 4, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Actually was done by a PRO in 1998.  hopefully it works !
> Home owner before who is now my neighbor said his eko worked great before, it actually was to warm, probably because it was plumbed diretly into a 40 gal hot water heater then right in to the floor.. Fingers Crossed!!
> 
> 
> ...



I have never seen or heard of it done like that. Why would they not just put the tubing in the concrete slab? That is the way I am use to seeing it anyway. Curious. Hope it all works great for you. Let us know when you have your first fire and how things come up to temp.!


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## bioman (Nov 4, 2011)

you might want to insulate your storage tank maybe, or not.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 4, 2011)

I will be fully insulated after its leak tested and good to go



			
				bioman said:
			
		

> you might want to insulate your storage tank maybe, or not.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 5, 2011)

Placing the Honeywell AquaStat. Should i put it on the Return Pipe from the tank to the Boiler! With about a 30 degree diff set and 170-180.  Is the bottom of my tank ever going to get that warm?????  any input???


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## Gasifier (Nov 5, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Placing the Honeywell AquaStat. Should i put it on the Return Pipe from the tank to the Boiler! With about a 30 degree diff set and 170-180.  Is the bottom of my tank ever going to get that warm?????  any input???



The bottom of your tank will not get that warm. Most are placed at the top somewhere where the hot water is. I guess that depends on what your Aquastat is running though. I have three Aquastats on my wood boiler set-up and one on my back up oil set-up. What is your Aquastat running?


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## Franzen105 (Nov 7, 2011)

This is where i am not sure. But i thought it runs my loading taco pump from the boiler to the tank???


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## mr.fixit (Nov 7, 2011)

The pump on the boiler loop should be connected directly to the Eko controller.It will control it on its own based on boiler temp. When it runs,it charges the tank.
If the aqustat came with the boiler it may of been intended for overheat loop? Don't know about that.
You could use the aquastat to limit the pump running your floor loop,that is, if the storage tank get depleted below usable temps,it cuts power to that pump or its relay.
I use a ranco temp controller (really just an adjustable thermostat with digital read out)with the temp sensor fastened to the top of the storage tank.When the tank gets below 125F. it shuts the load pump off.
Also looking at your pictures it almost looks like the Taco pump on the boiler loop has the motor end of the pump facing downward?.I believe they recommend that the pump motor should be installed horizontally but not certain on that.

Just looked at the pictures again and I'm not sure I'm following it right.
Is that a danfoss mixing valve on the boiler loop? Don't see the bypass valve or Am I missing something?
Maybe a drawing of the plumbing would help.


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## rkusek (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree with Mr. Fixit.  Take a break and post your plumbing diagram.  The Danfoss will need a valve on the bypass to work properly.  That Taco circ is mounted with the motor shaft pointed down instead of horizontal which will cause it to fail.  Are the fittings out the top and bottom of the boiler galzanized?  If so, you will want to replace them with black iron too.  It's easy to get overwhelmed with details and I have had to take a break many time to make sure I was doing it correctly.  You have a lot of money invested, don't try to rush it.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks for the Info. Bypass Valve i do not have I will change the pump!! Just wondering what is wrong with the Galvinazied.????
Not sure what i need for a Bypass Valve/Loop??


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## ewdudley (Nov 7, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> T Just wondering what is wrong with the galvanized.


Sounds like you've never heard of Afraidium!  Galvanized in a pressurized hydronic system?  That's crazy talk, mister.


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## mr.fixit (Nov 7, 2011)

See if this helps Franzen.


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## taxidermist (Nov 7, 2011)

You can log onto my blog and see my near boiler piping it might help.


Rob


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## in hot water (Nov 7, 2011)

galvanized is okay in a hydronic system, use a brass fitting if you plan on connecting copper to galv.

But galvanized cannot be used in a glycol system, according to Dow and other glycol manufacturers.

As for the sand bed storage, that was intended to work wirh a solar thermal array.  The concept is to start loading the sand bed in the late summer/ fall and flywheel off that stored energy into the winter months. Wisconsin solar guru Bob Ramlow promotes that system in your area.

hr


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## goosegunner (Nov 7, 2011)

in hot water said:
			
		

> galvanized is okay in a hydronic system, use a brass fitting if you plan on connecting copper to galv.
> 
> But galvanized cannot be used in a glycol system, according to Dow and other glycol manufacturers.
> 
> ...



So how important is it to have brass between Black iron and copper?

I have heard and read so many differing opinions on that what is your suggestion? 

I have pressurized and treated water system.
I didn't put brass between mine, should I be planning a change? 

gg


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## Fred61 (Nov 7, 2011)

Pardon my ignorance but aren't most sacrificial anodes made of zinc? do they have adverse effects when they deteriorate or are they never in the boiler water stream?


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## Franzen105 (Nov 8, 2011)

mr.fixit said:
			
		

> See if this helps Franzen.



Is that just a Ball Valve??
Do i have to move my Danfoss...???????


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## mr.fixit (Nov 8, 2011)

Yes ,the bypass is just a ball valve and it looks like your danfoss should swap places with the "T" directly above it.
Does that lower line that the danfoss is in now connect to the bottom of the storage tank?


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## Franzen105 (Nov 8, 2011)

SO just making sure i have this right
looking at the Danfoss..  The Circle on the Valve is the Suppy, the triangle will the return from tank. and the square is the return to the boiler.  If i blow air through the valve, the air goes through the circle to the square cause its cold. Correct???????????.........


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## mr.fixit (Nov 8, 2011)

That sounds right-but- that valve looks totally different than my danfoss.Mine has a cover on one side that comes off with 4 bolts.
Did you get any instructions with it? What brand and model # is it? Any part #s on it at all?

According to this if its the right valve you got it right  http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/DanfossVTC_Instructions.pdf

And another from another thread going on right now  http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/DanfossVTC_Datasheet.pdf


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## Franzen105 (Nov 8, 2011)

Cool Deal...  Thanks


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## Franzen105 (Nov 9, 2011)

Well got it all put back together. Pressure tested two tiny copper leaks, and one tiny tank weld leak.....  getting ready to fire her up!!


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## Franzen105 (Nov 9, 2011)

Well that one leak caused another caused another and another. A day of chasing leaks and She is sitting at 15 psi with no drips.  Is it normal that with all this work, i am little afraid to fire it up...... YICKS....


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## Franzen105 (Nov 10, 2011)

Well I went for it.. Pretty pleased so far. After starting at 49.1 degrees she warmed up the top nicely. The bottem took a while but it is catching up pretty quickly now!  Going to drain it in the morning and start over. Perfect timing snowing up here in northwest wisconsin....








Not to bad after a 5 hour burn with low quality wood ie, dry Poplar, Birch, Maple, Tamarack


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## mr.fixit (Nov 11, 2011)

Nice! Whats the orange thing on the back of the boiler in that last pic?


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## Gasifier (Nov 11, 2011)

Nice Franzen105. Keep us posted. I gotta get me a few of those digital meters and sensors. Pretty slick.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 11, 2011)

The Orange housing is a hot water filter.
After only a few hours heating my large sand mass system the floor in the house is already heating up Saweet.........


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## Gasifier (Nov 11, 2011)

All right! Good deal. Keep us posted man. Glad to hear the heat is coming through!  :coolcheese:


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## Franzen105 (Nov 11, 2011)

So just wondering the Bypass Valve i put in above the Danfoss, when would i use that???


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## goosegunner (Nov 11, 2011)

You use that to choke back the flow from the bypass line. If you have temp gauges on the return before the danfoss and the mixed after the danfoss you can close it down as your tank heats some. My initial fire was the only time I had it open very far. It is close to closed now.

gg


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## maple1 (Nov 11, 2011)

Isn't the Danfoss supposed to output the right temperature? I thought that was its function - not quite understanding why a manual valve would have to be added to make it work right.


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## Fred61 (Nov 11, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Isn't the Danfoss supposed to output the right temperature? I thought that was its function - not quite understanding why a manual valve would have to be added to make it work right.



The water flowing through the bypass line is what causes thr thermostat in the Danfoss to actuate. Circulator activates on return pipe and initially pumps water through the bypass line because at that point in time the automotive thermostat is closed. When the water flowing through the bypass line reaches 140 Â°F or whatever value you installed it flows on to the sensor part (bulb) of the thermostat and causes it to open. Colder water from your heating loop starts entering the boiler mixing with the warmer recirculating water. 

Now you have two sources flowing, both tempering each other which more than likely will not allow the thermostat to open much or even possibly close again until the flow from the bypass warms the bulb. When the return water from the system reaches your desired temperature, in my case 140 Â°F the bulb will sense it and stay open, allowing circulation from the heating loop.

The variable restriction (ball Valve) placed in the bypass line is to limit the flow to your needs. Partially closing it restricts circulation through the loop, allowing more flow from the heat loop. I my case I hit the sweet spot on the ball valve about three years ago and haven't touched it since. Some of it has to do with my set points for circulator actuation but mostly has to do with my heat load or how much heat my flatplate exchanger can transfer into my unpressurized storage tank.

Wanna see how it works. Close the bypass valve completely and the Danfoss will never open.


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## maple1 (Nov 11, 2011)

Fred61 said:
			
		

> maple1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I must be slow, I'm still not understanding it. Does the (hot) bypass loop actuate the thermostat, or the (colder) return line? The bolded above seem to be contadictory on that. On the last line, if the bypass valve is opened completely, won't the danfoss thermostatically regulate itself? I thought it worked by sensing the water entering from the return side, and if it wasn't warm enough [say when below 140] it would introduce warming flow from the bypass. Then even if it worked the opposite (sensing bypass temp and [say when above 140] opening the return to introduce cooling flow from the return), I still don't see how manually valving down the bypass flow to it will put more flow through - that would seem to create a situation where you would be trying to direct more flow against what the danfoss would be trying to regulate through itself (making it fight itself?). Maybe I'm just overthinking things.


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## Fred61 (Nov 11, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Fred61 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't see that the two statements are contradictory. Perhaps if I said "The* hot *water flowing through the bypass line is what causes the thermostat in the Danfoss valve to actuate"
In the second bolded statement if I say " When the water from the *heat distribution loop* reaches your desired temperature, in my case 140 Â°F the bulb will sense it".

I don't know how to explain it any clearer. Perhaps if you don't think of it as being complicated and sleep on it you will understand. Or perhaps someone who explains things better than I can chime in.  

PS. You do know what an automotive thermostat looks like, don't you?


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## maple1 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes, and automotive thermostats don't need a manual valve added on to make them work - which is likely why I haven't got my head around this yet.


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## goosegunner (Nov 11, 2011)

From talking with the Danfoss tech I believe the model shown in this install doesn't need the bypass ball valve. He said that the danfoss VTC closes the hot port proportionally.

I looked at the valve data sheet and it does not show a ball valve like the older model.

The ball valve is of course very useful to service the danfoss.

gg


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## maple1 (Nov 11, 2011)

Completely agree - the more valves the better, when it comes to servicing at least.


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## Fred61 (Nov 11, 2011)

maple1 said:
			
		

> Yes, and automotive thermostats don't need a manual valve added on to make them work - which is likely why I haven't got my head around this yet.



You aren't using the ball valve to necessarily make it work. The ball valve is in there to restrict the recirculating flow so you can get more flow through the heat loop.


Yes GG I saw that. Pretty neat !


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## Franzen105 (Nov 11, 2011)

So far very impressed with the Eko, Minus the Smoke!  The Empyre was great for not smoking. But i guess its better to have heat with smoke than having no heat.  
is there a smoke hood build thread some where out there.


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## goosegunner (Nov 12, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> So far very impressed with the Eko, Minus the Smoke!  The Empyre was great for not smoking. But i guess its better to have heat with smoke than having no heat.
> is there a smoke hood build thread some where out there.



My econoburn seems to be the same way smoke wise. There is no way that I would want it in my house. I would look for a boiler with induced draft next time.

gg


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## Franzen105 (Nov 12, 2011)

Whoa.. i left the boiler set at 180..  Is it bad that my tank is this hot..???


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## Fred61 (Nov 12, 2011)

goosegunner said:
			
		

> Franzen105 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why do you suppose the operators of Wood Guns are installing or contemplating installation of smoke hoods?


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## taxidermist (Nov 12, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> So far very impressed with the Eko, Minus the Smoke!  The Empyre was great for not smoking. But i guess its better to have heat with smoke than having no heat.
> is there a smoke hood build thread some where out there.




https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/64971/

Rob


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## mr.fixit (Nov 12, 2011)

Waiting until you're down to coals to reload helps reduce smoke at reload but sometimes even then the new wood starts burning before you have a chance to fully reload.

Here's a dolly I made to keep the wood at arms reach to minimize reload time.  https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/68097/P0/


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## taxidermist (Nov 12, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Whoa.. i left the boiler set at 180..  Is it bad that my tank is this hot..???



Nope just watch your pressure when you get that hot. Mine get to 190 on top a few times a year.

Rob


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## Gasifier (Nov 12, 2011)

Fred61 said:
			
		

> goosegunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 :lol: 
Well, I am contemplating the installation of a smoke hood because my Wood Gun wood boiler is in my basement, and I consider any smoke in the house to be to much. 
The smoke is minimal as long as you don't load while you have quite a fire going. Just wait till down to coals as pointed out already.

Here is the thread Rob just provided. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/64971/
I would be willing to bet the owners of many different boiler types, who have their boiler inside, have installed hoods or are contemplating it. Because any smoke inside the home is too much smoke. Probably doesn't have anything to do with what make the boiler is.  ;-)


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## goosegunner (Nov 12, 2011)

When my Econoburn is down to coals I need to be fast when loading the refractory is so hot the new pieces of wood start burning fast.

Gg


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## Fred61 (Nov 12, 2011)

goosegunner said:
			
		

> When my Econoburn is down to coals I need to be fast when loading the refractory is so hot the new pieces of wood start burning fast.
> 
> Gg


WOW, that's hot! Perhaps now that you have your storage in place, you won't need to load it as soon and allow it to cool down a little more. My EKO is in my basement and smoke has not been a problem for me. 
I usually build my fire with enough small splits stacked to the lower lip of the door, apply heat up through the nozzle with a propane torch, remove torch and let the temp of the exhaust reach 300-350 as measured with a magnetic thermometer, shift it to gassification mode and walk away. In a half hour or forty five minutes I will return to load the appropriate amount of wood I need to supply heat and charge the tank which is different every day with the changes in the weather and DHW use.
That re-load is the most critical one since I don't know how much it has burned down. The problem with efficiency is that I need to build a new fire every day.

If I just swing the door open, smoke will come into the room, however, if I just crack the door for a few seconds it will turn the draft toward the flue and I will be able to open the door enough to reload. The wood is, of course at arms length on my wood cart. I also do not shut off the combustion fan. I usually never need a re-load after that but if I do it is easy to tell when the fire is burned down enough by checking boiler and flue temperature.

What few whisps of smoke that do escape periodically are easily taken care of by the ozone bulb I keep lit above the boiler.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 12, 2011)

And honestly i am using more Poplar than anything!!  Saweet!  I am lving it.. Except i was used to sleeping with it 60 degrees in the house and at 70 i didnt sleep well last night.  It may take a while getting used to a warm house....


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## Gasifier (Nov 12, 2011)

One of the things I like the best about my boiler over my wood stove is that I can control the heat of each area of the house (six of them including garage) with it's own thermostat. A big improvement in comfort level. Lovin it.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 18, 2011)

So i have a little problem, because the chimney out wasn't a true 8 inch, i popped a rivet on the male end of the chimney elbow and put it over the outlet on the boiler and now it leaks liquid creosote down the back of the Eko 40.  I used just single walled 8 inch. But the outlet measured like 7 5/8. Probably metric im guessing. where can i find something that works better....


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## goosegunner (Nov 18, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> So i have a little problem, because the chimney out wasn't a true 8 inch, i popped a rivet on the male end of the chimney elbow and put it over the outlet on the boiler and now it leaks liquid creosote down the back of the Eko 40.  I used just single walled 8 inch. But the outlet measured like 7 5/8. Probably metric im guessing. where can i find something that works better....




Do you have a cap on your stack?

Where is the liquid coming from?

Seems odd that you would have liquid so close to outlet, you are either idling too much, your wood is green or both.

My stack last year got messy near the top from condensation and flue gas but in the building it was dry as could be.

gg


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## mr.fixit (Nov 18, 2011)

I agree with gg.Something is not right.
How dry is your wood,do you idle alot?

This is my third season with the eko and I have yet to clean the chimney.I have looked at it several times but there is nothing in it but dry fly ash.
As for the flue connector I used high temp silicone at the boiler connection with a 8"  "T" right off the back of the boiler.


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## rkusek (Nov 18, 2011)

Franzen, show us a big of how that elbow is connected to the output.  I would recommend a Tee with a plug for easy cleanout of the fly ash.  That connection needs to be secure.  I found a piece of single wall that worked great at a mom and pop Ace hardware that the box stores didn't have.  Will try to get a pic of mine for you too.  Wood might be too wet too.


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## Franzen105 (Nov 19, 2011)

I think it is idling to much. The thing never runs. I have to set at 175 and its always way warmer.. So i guess the next step is the change the pulse time and strength!!???
Plus my Sand mass system works so well. I am lucky if it asks for heat once in 24 hours.  But it is still on the warm side in northern wi.. 
So how can i fix this.  I have a tee, but the inside is only six inch????


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## goosegunner (Nov 19, 2011)

When you are running storage there is no way your system should look like that.

For a brand new install something is not right. My guess is you are not running like most with storage do.

My boiler in south central Wisconsin only runs 3-4 hours a day right now. The rest of the time it is off. The fire is started, it burns on high until wood is gone, fan is off.

gg


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## Hunderliggur (Nov 19, 2011)

I have a double T arrangement which allows for a barometric damper and easier cleanout.  When it is cold, I can just use a shop vac to suck up the mostly fly ash.  If I need to clean, I pop off the damper and brush with a flexible rod and brush.  When I was starting with wetter wood I got gunk that would actually clog my cap screen.  Now that I burn drier wood it is not a problem.  If you know an Amway supplier Industro Clean (from years ago in my experience) will clean that creosote right off.  Works well on airplane exhaust too ;-)


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## Franzen105 (Dec 30, 2011)

Well very happy to Report that our Eko 40 is working Great after almost two months of burning. It has been the mild first part of the winter in Northen Wisconsin. Alot of nights had to open the windows due to warm days. Also got the DHW hooked up and also is working sweet.
I am averaging about 1 full cord per month, which sounds great to me...  I was figuring on about 8 to 10 cords per winter


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## Gasifier (Dec 31, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Well very happy to Report that our Eko 40 is working Great after almost two months of burning. It has been the mild first part of the winter in Northen Wisconsin. Alot of nights had to open the windows due to warm days. Also got the DHW hooked up and also is working sweet.
> I am averaging about 1 full cord per month, which sounds great to me...  I was figuring on about 8 to 10 cords per winter



Franzen,

That is great! Glad to hear it. Happy New Year to you. Do you think that as you get a little more experience with the system you will be able to control the temperature in the house a little better? Or, do you think it will be tough to do because of the heat all built up in the sand mass? It would seem like you would still be able to "turn down the heat" a little at a time to get your house temperature a little cooler so you are not having to open the windows. Have a good one.


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## huffdawg (Dec 31, 2011)

Franzen105 said:
			
		

> Well very happy to Report that our Eko 40 is working Great after almost two months of burning. It has been the mild first part of the winter in Northen Wisconsin. Alot of nights had to open the windows due to warm days. Also got the DHW hooked up and also is working sweet.
> I am averaging about 1 full cord per month, which sounds great to me...  I was figuring on about 8 to 10 cords per winter




How muh space are you heating Franzen?


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## Franzen105 (Dec 31, 2011)

Gasifer, One of the problems i have is in the living space there is 3/4 inch plywood under 3/4 inches of hardwood floor through the entire house. So i kind of have a cap on my warm cement.  I bought a 2 way Air- and Slab thermostat but it would not work with my relay system for some reason. So i am hoping by controlling the slab temp tighter will help the warm temps. Cuz i know my slab cools off way before the air in the house does, causing it to work harder once a day rather then short cycles more often. And once the slab warms up it over shoots the set air temp.
Huffdog i am heating 3000 sq ft of slab on grade.


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## woodsmaster (Dec 31, 2011)

goosegunner said:
			
		

> Franzen105 said:
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Biomass has induced draft and still have smoke problems like the others if not done right.


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## mikefrommaine (Jan 1, 2012)

woodsmaster said:
			
		

> goosegunner said:
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> ...



I have a biomass in the basement. For the first two weeks I thought I had made a mistake because of all the smoke. But now I have learned how to operate it pretty much smoke free. Definitely a steep learning curve with any of these boilers.


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